Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-jl
July 31, 2010 - August 09, 2010
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | V Groah <vgroah(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | project progress update |
We are running a John Deere lawn tractor dynamo off the rear pulley with a
larger driven pulley to slow the rotation some. We are also running a rpm
pick up off the ring gear at the top off the starter bracket. I am not sur
e just what photos you would like but we would be happy to send you somethi
ng if it would help.
It is a bit tight but it all fits. We are just short of starting the engin
e so everything is in place in there. We hope to finish the cowling soon.
We will not be able to work on the plane for a couple of weeks but then wa
nt to finish the cowling. Where are you on your build=2C I assume you are
using a Corvair as well? Vic
Date: Sat=2C 31 Jul 2010 16:22:03 -0500
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: project progress update
From: rmueller23(at)gmail.com
Wow=2C that is surprising. It sure doesn't look like there is room for the
ring gear in there. Any other pics would be greatly appreciated. Are you dr
iving the dynamo/alternator off the rear?
Thanks Vic=2C
Ryan
On Sat=2C Jul 31=2C 2010 at 4:07 PM=2C V Groah wrote:
Just a note=2C the starter is in the front in the normal Corviar position.
Unfortunatly no press=2C just hand formed. VG
Date: Sat=2C 31 Jul 2010 16:03:42 +0000
From: boyerjrb(at)comcast.net
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: project progress update
Hi Mike=2C
Your cowling is looking good. Making it out of aluminium has got to be a re
al challenge=3B you and your dad Vic are doing a nice job of it.
Now if you just had a 200 ton hydropress for the small stuff. We had one at
the Boeing plant I worked at and boy would that have made cowling and stee
l fitting easy. Thats what my nightmares are made of.
Cheers=2C
Jim
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Groah" <dskogrover(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Saturday=2C July 31=2C 2010 7:28:32 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: project progress update
I don't post very often=2C as I like to sit back and just soak up the info
rmation from everyone else=2C
but I told Gary Boothe I'd send him a pic or two updating the progress on m
y cowl and I figured
I'd let everyone else see too. All of the firewall forward stuff really ea
ts a lot of time and seems like
it doesn't show. Friends drop by hearing that we have been working on the
plane and I'm sure they
can't see any progress. We do although=2C have the engine just about ready
to run=2C as soon as I get the
carb rebuilt and the air filter mounted. The
cowl is getting closer=2C but there is still a bunch to do there
as well. My dad (Vic) and I are still plugging away at it out here in Cali
fornia=2C and may actually finish
it one of these days! Anyways=2C I'm gonna go grab my wife and daughter an
d go enjoy the morning air
flying the Piper. Keep building!
Mike Groah
Tulare CA
st" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
ttp://forums.matronics.com
=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Broadhead 2010 |
| From: | "dgaldrich" <dgaldrich(at)embarqmail.com> |
Dale
You made my wife's weekend with her first ride in a Piet. I didn't know she was
out aviating and was looking for her since the prize givaway was starting.
When next I see her, she's walking from the flight line with a grin a mile across.
The misery from the storms of the previous days were wiped out with that
smile. Thanks.
Dave Aldrich
612 ribs done
tail feathers done
WW Corvair ready to run
Wife taught to rib stitch
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=306981#306981
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Fwd: CorvAircraft> stolen aircraft trailer |
| From: | Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com> |
Stolen trailer....if you are down south at all, please give it a look.
Thanks,
Ryan
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Michael Amick <mkamick(at)bellsouth.net>
Date: Sat, Jul 31, 2010 at 5:33 PM
Subject: CorvAircraft> stolen aircraft trailer
see link for pic & info from a fellow aviator wanting help
<http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=60733>
Michael Amick
Nashville
_________________________________________________________
search the CorvAircraft archives at
http://www.maddyhome.com/corvairsrch/index.jsp
to UNsubscribe from CorvAircraft, send a message to
CorvAircraft-leave(at)mylist.net
Other CorvAircraft list info is at
http://www.krnet.org/corvaircraft_inst.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Allan Macklem" <awmacklem(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Riblett 612 or 613.5, and jigs too... |
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: To Door or not to Door |
| From: | "ldmill" <lorin.miller(at)emerson.com> |
My GN-1 actually has two doors. Check it out on westcoastpiet.com (N30PP). I REALLY
like having them. With no center section cutout or handhold, I can still
get in without doing the twister.
Lorin
--------
Lorin Miller
Waiex N81YX
GN-1 N30PP
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307000#307000
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 4am Howitzer Shot? |
| From: | "ldmill" <lorin.miller(at)emerson.com> |
I was the guy in the enclosed black trailer camping out in the parking lot. Sitting
in that metal breadbox - when that "howitzer shot" went off - I thought he
camper was going to fold in on itself. It sounded like a ball-pean hammer was
hitting the trailer all night! My white 10x10 EZ-UP canopy collapsed from the
amount of rain. I was out every 15 minutes for almost 2 hours dumping rain
off it trying to keep the motorcycles dry. Gave up at 3am and the canopy looked
like a pretzel the next morning.
FYI - thanks to the Brodhead folks for letting me camp in the parking lot Sunday
night also! I blew a transmission line in the Suburban on Sunday morning just
as I was leaving for Oshkosh. I caught it at the gas station in town, and limped
back to the airport. Watched Kevin limp back after breaking his bungee cord
Sunday afternoon, then watched another movie at the hanger Sunday night (one
about the Canadian RCAF that was pretty lame, they forgot about the plot by
midpoint of the movie). Had the Sub at the chevy shop by 7:45 and it was fixed
by 8:30. They replaced the line for a total emergency fix of $120.
Many stories to tell this year!!
Lorin
--------
Lorin Miller
Waiex N81YX
GN-1 N30PP
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307002#307002
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 4am Howitzer Shot? |
| From: | Dan Yocum <yocum137(at)gmail.com> |
Kevin broke a bungee?
Dan
--
yocum(at)gmail.com
On Jul 31, 2010, at 9:34 PM, ldmill wrote:
>
> I was the guy in the enclosed black trailer camping out in the parking lot. Sitting
in that metal breadbox - when that "howitzer shot" went off - I thought
he camper was going to fold in on itself. It sounded like a ball-pean hammer
was hitting the trailer all night! My white 10x10 EZ-UP canopy collapsed from
the amount of rain. I was out every 15 minutes for almost 2 hours dumping rain
off it trying to keep the motorcycles dry. Gave up at 3am and the canopy looked
like a pretzel the next morning.
>
> FYI - thanks to the Brodhead folks for letting me camp in the parking lot Sunday
night also! I blew a transmission line in the Suburban on Sunday morning just
as I was leaving for Oshkosh. I caught it at the gas station in town, and
limped back to the airport. Watched Kevin limp back after breaking his bungee
cord Sunday afternoon, then watched another movie at the hanger Sunday night
(one about the Canadian RCAF that was pretty lame, they forgot about the plot
by midpoint of the movie). Had the Sub at the chevy shop by 7:45 and it was fixed
by 8:30. They replaced the line for a total emergency fix of $120.
>
> Many stories to tell this year!!
>
> Lorin
>
> --------
> Lorin Miller
> Waiex N81YX
> GN-1 N30PP
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307002#307002
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Groah <dskogrover(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: project progress update |
Thank you everyone for the positive comments on our cowling. The ring gear
is up =0Afront and is a standard WW part along with the starter he recommen
ds (with his =0Anose gear).- Although the starter is in stock form (not m
odified for low =0Aclearance as WW sells so we probably could have gotten t
he top down a little =0Alower if we had done that). As my dad said it all f
its in there somehow.- I had =0Aa certain look I wanted that included a r
ounded nose and bottom and a tight fit =0Aaround the engine.- We've manag
ed to get most of the look i wanted with a few =0Aadjustments to conform wi
th reality.- While my dad won't be able to work on the =0Aplane for a cou
ple weeks as he said, I will keep working on it as time allows.- =0AHopef
ully I'll have it ready and we can run it together when he is available to
=0Awork on it again.- If we don't keep working on it Gary Boothe, Jim Boy
er, or =0AChris Tracy is going to beat us into the air out here in Californ
ia! =0A=0A=0AMike Groah=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFr
om: Ryan Mueller =0ATo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
=0ASent: Sat, July 31, 2010 2:22:03 PM=0ASubject: Re: Pietenpol-List: proje
ct progress update=0A=0AWow, that is surprising. It sure doesn't look like
there is room for the ring =0Agear in there. Any other pics would be greatl
y appreciated. Are you driving the =0Adynamo/alternator off the rear? =0A
=0A=0AThanks Vic,=0A=0ARyan=0A=0A=0AOn Sat, Jul 31, 2010 at 4:07 PM, V Groa
h wrote:=0A=0AJust a note,-the starter is in the-f
ront in-the normal Corviar position.- =0AUnfortunatly no press, just ha
nd formed.- VG=0A>-=0A>________________________________=0ADate: Sat, 31
l-list(at)matronics.com=0A>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: project progress updat
e =0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>Hi Mike,=0A>Your cowling is looking good. Making it out o
f aluminium has got to be a real =0A>challenge; you and your dad Vic are do
ing a nice job of it.=0A>Now if you just had a 200 ton hydropress for the s
mall stuff. We had one at the =0A>Boeing plant I worked at and boy would th
at have made cowling and steel fitting =0A>easy. Thats what my nightmares a
re made of.=0A>Cheers, =0A>Jim=0A>-=0A>-=0A>=0A>----- Original Message
-----=0A>From: "Michael Groah" <dskogrover(at)yahoo.com>=0A>To: pietenpol-list
@matronics.com=0A>Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2010 7:28:32 AM=0A>Subject: Piet
enpol-List: project progress update=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A> I don't post very often
, as I like to sit back and just soak up the information =0A>from everyone
else, =0A>=0A> but I told Gary Boothe I'd send him a pic or two updating th
e progress on my =0A>cowl and I figured =0A>=0A>I'd let everyone else see t
oo. All of the firewall forward stuff really eats a =0A>lot of time and se
ems like =0A>=0A>it doesn't show. Friends drop by hearing that we have bee
n working on the plane =0A>and I'm sure they =0A>=0A> can't see any progres
s. We do although, have the engine just about ready to =0A>run, as soon as
I get the=0A>carb rebuilt and the air filter mounted. The=0A> cowl is get
ting closer, but there is still a bunch to do there =0A>as well. My dad (V
ic) and I are still plugging away at it out here in =0A>California, and may
actually finish =0A>=0A>it one of these days! Anyways, I'm gonna go grab
my wife and daughter and go =0A>enjoy the morning air =0A>=0A> flying the P
iper. Keep building!=0A>=0A>Mike Groah=0A>Tulare CA =0A>=0A>=0A> st" targ
et=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List =0A>ttp://for
ums.matronics.com =_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution =0A>=0A>
" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List =0A
>tp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
-========================
================== =0A=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Elevator cable slack |
| From: | "Jerry Dotson" <jdotson(at)erec.net> |
I have read in the archives about slack cables and it seems that it is pretty much
universal to the Pietenpol. Mine are tight(just right) at full down elevator,
then the lower cables start going slack as the elevator is raised getting
the most slack in the center position, then as you go to full up elevator they
begin to pull most of the slack out as you reach full up. I can do cosmetics
with some light springs holding up on the cables. Why I am posting is flutter
possibilities. I think I am worrying over nothing, just needing reassurance that
they all get slack more or less!
--------
Jerry Dotson
59 Daniel Johnson Rd
Baker, FL 32531
Started building NX510JD July, 2009
Ribs and tailfeathers done
using Lycoming O-235
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307021#307021
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Elevator cable slack |
You are worrying about nothing, Jerry. Every Piet I've seen has some slack
in the cables somewhere in the range of motion. I've never heard of flutter
problems in a Pietenpol (or any other airplane as slow as a Piet). Don't
add springs or anything other than a little leather patch on the leading
edge of each stabilizer to prvent the cable from chafing the fabric, and go
out and fly the thing.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jerry Dotson
Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2010 6:40 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Elevator cable slack
I have read in the archives about slack cables and it seems that it is
pretty much universal to the Pietenpol. Mine are tight(just right) at full
down elevator, then the lower cables start going slack as the elevator is
raised getting the most slack in the center position, then as you go to full
up elevator they begin to pull most of the slack out as you reach full up. I
can do cosmetics with some light springs holding up on the cables. Why I am
posting is flutter possibilities. I think I am worrying over nothing, just
needing reassurance that they all get slack more or less!
--------
Jerry Dotson
59 Daniel Johnson Rd
Baker, FL 32531
Started building NX510JD July, 2009
Ribs and tailfeathers done
using Lycoming O-235
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307021#307021
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ben Charvet <bencharvet(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Elevator cable slack |
Mine work the same way. I guess its just the geometry of the design,
but I haven't noticed it causing any problems.
Ben
n 8/1/2010 6:40 AM, Jerry Dotson wrote:
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Jerry Dotson"
>
> I have read in the archives about slack cables and it seems that it is pretty
much universal to the Pietenpol. Mine are tight(just right) at full down elevator,
then the lower cables start going slack as the elevator is raised getting
the most slack in the center position, then as you go to full up elevator they
begin to pull most of the slack out as you reach full up. I can do cosmetics
with some light springs holding up on the cables. Why I am posting is flutter
possibilities. I think I am worrying over nothing, just needing reassurance
that they all get slack more or less!
>
> --------
> Jerry Dotson
> 59 Daniel Johnson Rd
> Baker, FL 32531
>
> Started building NX510JD July, 2009
> Ribs and tailfeathers done
> using Lycoming O-235
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307021#307021
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Crash - Long Post |
| From: | "PatrickW" <pwhoyt(at)yahoo.com> |
My wife snapped this photo at the Moment of Truth.
- Pat
--------
Patrick
XL/650/Corvair
N63PZ (reserved)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307034#307034
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/kp_2010_194.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Yocum <yocum(at)fnal.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: Crash - Long Post |
He slid on that wheel for a looong time. I thought for sure that the
gear was going to hold... and then the wing settled real easy like on to
the ground and the whole plane spun around almost in line with Ryan,
mine, and Perry's.
Dan
On 08/01/2010 08:46 AM, PatrickW wrote:
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "PatrickW"
>
> My wife snapped this photo at the Moment of Truth.
>
> - Pat
--
Dan Yocum
Fermilab 630.840.6509
yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: project progress update |
| From: | "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca> |
Mike wrote:
"The ring gear is up front and is a standard WW part along with the starter he
recommends (with his nose gear)."
Personally I think that nose gear on a Pietenpol would look horrible. Keep it as
a taildragger...
Seriously, though, it looks like you guys "nailed it" in designing your Piet/Corvair
cowling.
Really nice.
Bill C
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307040#307040
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kip and Beth Gardner <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: project progress update |
Nice job Mike, I'm saving the photo for future reference.
Kip Gardner
On Aug 1, 2010, at 10:33 AM, Bill Church wrote:
>
>
> Mike wrote:
> "The ring gear is up front and is a standard WW part along with the
> starter he recommends (with his nose gear)."
>
> Personally I think that nose gear on a Pietenpol would look
> horrible. Keep it as a taildragger...
>
> Seriously, though, it looks like you guys "nailed it" in designing
> your Piet/Corvair cowling.
> Really nice.
>
> Bill C
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307040#307040
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Gerald Thornhill Prop Carving Presentation Oshkosh |
| From: | "dwilson" <marwilson(at)charter.net> |
Greetings! If you attended the prop carving presentation by Jerry Thornhill at
Oshkosh and wanted to create your own prop please feel free to use this spreadsheet
to perform the calculations. The results match the handouts that he provided
at Oshkosh. The notes on the page are my own from his presentation. Let
me know if you need additional information. Anyone have a picture of Jerry's
prop they could post ?
dwilson
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307065#307065
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | =?ISO-8859-1?B?UmU6IFBpZXRlbnBvbC1MaXN0OiAoQ1MpsiB0LXNoaXJ0cw==? |
| From: | Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
I would be interested also. I wonder what WW will think of this?
rick
On Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 3:04 PM, Jim Boyer wrote:
> Hi John,
>
> I should have known you were the one doing the crank snapping shirts. I
> definitely want at least one.
>
> Thanks and it was nice seeing you at Brodhead.
>
> Jim
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John Hofmann" <jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc.com>
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2010 11:21:17 AM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: (CS)=B2 t-shirts
>
> Actually, yes I am. I am just about finished. I have been revamping my
> website and will post them in the next week or so as I have a bit of time
> while on vacation this week.
>
> -john-
>
> John Hofmann
> Vice-President, Information Technology
> The Rees Group, Inc.
> 2424 American Lane
> Madison, WI 53704
> Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150
> Fax: 608.443.2474
> Email: jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc.com
>
> On Jul 27, 2010, at 11:29 AM, TOM STINEMETZE wrote:
>
> *Hey Bratman; are you really making up some "Crank Snappin' Corvair
> Society" t-shirts to sell? I would like to be first in line if you are.
> *
> **
> *We should get somebody with artistic skills to make up a (CS)=B2 logo fo
r
> us to emblazon with pride on our Corvair powered birds. Maybe Karetaker
> Aero as he's obviously had some practice at it. By the way, the new Hitl
er
> spoof had me rollin' on the floor when the boss walked in. Embarrassing
but
> worth it.*
> **
> *Tom Stinemetze*
> *N328X*
> *or maybe N328 x (CS)=B2*
> **
>
> *
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
ontribution
> *
>
>
> *
>
> " target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> p://forums.matronics.com
> blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> *
>
> *
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
> *
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | spark plug securing |
We have the stock (modified) corvair shrowd on ours, and the seal groument
on our stock corvair wires helps a lot in holding them on, just make sure y
ou feel the snap detent when you push them on the plugs.
-
Shad=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Crash - Long Post |
That was one Purtee Landing!
-
Shad=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Elevator cable slack |
As we say at work, "It ain't the space shuttle".
Shad
-
I have read in the archives about slack cables and it seems that it is
pretty much universal to the Pietenpol. Mine are tight(just right) at full
down elevator, then the lower cables start going slack as the elevator is
raised getting the most slack in the center position, then as you go to ful
l
up elevator they begin to pull most of the slack out as you reach full up.
I
can do cosmetics with some light springs holding up on the cables. Why I am
posting is flutter possibilities. I think I am worrying over nothing, just
needing reassurance that they all get slack more or less!
--------
Jerry Dotson
59 Daniel Johnson Rd
Baker, FL 32531
Started building- NX510JD- July, 2009
Ribs and tailfeathers done
using Lycoming O-235
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307021#307021
le, List Admin.
=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | AMsafetyC(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Gerald Thornhill Prop Carving Presentation Oshkosh |
I would be interested in seeing the spread sheet if anyone can provide it
or point me it the direction to get it for myself.
Thanks
John
In a message dated 8/1/2010 2:38:28 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
marwilson(at)charter.net writes:
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "dwilson"
Greetings! If you attended the prop carving presentation by Jerry
Thornhill at Oshkosh and wanted to create your own prop please feel free to use
this spreadsheet to perform the calculations. The results match the handouts
that he provided at Oshkosh. The notes on the page are my own from his
presentation. Let me know if you need additional information. Anyone have
a picture of Jerry's prop they could post ?
dwilson
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307065#307065
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Gerald Thornhill Prop Carving Presentation Oshkosh |
| From: | helspersew(at)aol.com |
dwilson,
I don't seem to be able to get the spreadsheet. Did you attach it to your
email?
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
-----Original Message-----
From: dwilson <marwilson(at)charter.net>
Sent: Sun, Aug 1, 2010 1:37 pm
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Gerald Thornhill Prop Carving Presentation Oshkos
h
Greetings! If you attended the prop carving presentation by Jerry Thornhi
ll at
shkosh and wanted to create your own prop please feel free to use this
preadsheet to perform the calculations. The results match the handouts th
at he
rovided at Oshkosh. The notes on the page are my own from his presentatio
n.
et me know if you need additional information. Anyone have a picture of
erry's prop they could post ?
dwilson
ead this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307065#307065
========================
===========
-= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum -
-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
-= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
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-
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-
-========================
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-= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
-= Same great content also available via the Web Forums!
-
-= --> http://forums.matronics.com
-
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-= - List Contribution Web Site -
-= Thank you for your generous support!
-= -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
-========================
========================
===========
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Gerald Thornhill Prop Carving Presentation Oshkosh |
| From: | "dwilson" <marwilson(at)charter.net> |
website would not accept the file type....
contact me with an email address and I'll send it to you...
Dan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307138#307138
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Landing gear in the plans |
| From: | "j_dunavin" <j_dunavin(at)hotmail.com> |
As we are going to be ordering our plans any day now. I see that product 7 is for
the wooden landing gear. What landing gear is in the original plans? Is it
not wooden?
Of course it is only $20, but I'm just curious of what is going on there.
Also should I get the original build manual?
I guess I should just get the whole thing for $250 hu?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307145#307145
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Gerald Thornhill Prop Carving Presentation Oshkosh |
| From: | "Billy McCaskill" <billmz(at)cox.net> |
dwilson,
I would be interested in this spreadsheet. My email address is billmz (at) cox
(dot)net. Thanks!
--------
Billy McCaskill
Urbana, IL
tailfeathers almost done
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307147#307147
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ben Charvet <bencharvet(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Landing gear in the plans |
The plans include the dimensions for the split gear, similar to that on
a Cub. The Original Wood Gear is depicted in the builders manual, and
was part of the original Flying and Glider plans, which are reprinted
there. I ordered the whole package, and the only thing I didn't use was
the full scale wing rib template.
Ben Charvet
Mims, Fl
On 8/2/2010 12:26 AM, j_dunavin wrote:
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "j_dunavin"
>
> As we are going to be ordering our plans any day now. I see that product 7 is
for the wooden landing gear. What landing gear is in the original plans? Is it
not wooden?
> Of course it is only $20, but I'm just curious of what is going on there.
> Also should I get the original build manual?
> I guess I should just get the whole thing for $250 hu?
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307145#307145
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Boyer <boyerjrb(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: project progress update |
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Differences between GN-1 and regular Piet? |
| From: | "Larry Vetter" <vetter(at)evertek.net> |
I'm still new to the Pietenpol so I hope this isn't a dumb question, but what is
the difference between the GN-1 models and the regular Pietenpol?
Thanks.
Larry
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307195#307195
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Yocum <yocum(at)fnal.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: Differences between GN-1 and regular Piet? |
Hi Larry,
First off, I want to say that some of what I'm about to tell you is
almost certainly wrong, and lots of people have lots of strong feelings
and opinions on the topic. I'm not here to start a long drawn out
discussion on the finer differences of the 2 designs, just point out the
things I do know, observed, or heard.
The Grega GN-1 Aircamper (note the single word) is a derivation of the
Pietenpol Air Camper (2 words). In the 50's and 60's there was a
surplus of Piper Cub parts around: engines, engine mounts, wings, gear,
etc. which John Grega used to create a parasol design that looked an
awful lot like a Pietenpol Air Camper.
The most obvious visual differences between the two are the gear attach
points and the number of stringers on the fuselage.
On a Pietenpol, the gear attach to the fuse at the same place the wing
lift struts attach. On the GN-1, the rear gear attach point doesn't
reach the rear wing lift strut since the Cub gear are not as narrow
front-to-back. On a Pietenpol there is only one fabric stringer down
the side of the fuselage. On the GN-1 there are 2 stringers.
Some GN-1s have Cub wings which are the USA35b airfoil with no
undercamber on the wings. A true Pietenpol uses an FC-10, which does
have an undercamber.
I believe that all GN-1s are steel fuselages and Pietenpols can be
either wood or steel, but most are wood (I think).
Grega's are almost always powered by a Continental, while Pietenpols are
powered by Ford As, Continentals, Corvairs, Franklins, etc.
You can still buy Pietenpol plans from the Pietenpol family, but the
Grega Plans are not being produced anymore. Sometimes you can find them
for sale on Ebay, Barnstormers, or someone here on the list.
There are more, finer details "in the archives" but I'll leave that
search up to you.
Cheers,
Dan
On 08/02/2010 11:08 AM, Larry Vetter wrote:
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Larry Vetter"
>
> I'm still new to the Pietenpol so I hope this isn't a dumb question, but what
is the difference between the GN-1 models and the regular Pietenpol?
> Thanks.
> Larry
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307195#307195
>
>
--
Dan Yocum
Fermilab 630.840.6509
yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Yocum <yocum(at)fnal.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: project progress update |
Let me tell you, I looked over at the witchery on several occasions and
almost sold my soul for a self commencer...
Speaking of commencers, I forgot to include Perry Rhoades and Bill Rewey
in my list of people to thank for attempting to commence N8031. So,
here it is: Thanks!
Dan
On 08/02/2010 11:22 AM, jeff wilson wrote:
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: jeff wilson
>
> What is this starter I keep seeing mention of?
> Perhaps it is the witchcraft we witnessed at Brodhead. A pilot turned on his
ignition switch and the prop turned with a screeching sound, then the engine started.
One observer whispered ''Beware, tis witchery'' another said ''blasphemy''
--
Dan Yocum
Fermilab 630.840.6509
yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | plug ends of harness question |
I am kinda new to the Continental engine and have a question about the
ceramic cigarette and spring end on the harness where it screws into the
spark plug.
Some of these are missing and all that is on the end of the harness wire is
a hole where the little spring came out of. The shipper put duct tape
around the end of all of them, and when I removed it, it pulled a couple
other springs out as well.
Do I just get replacements and just push the spring ends into the holes or
what?
ACSS doesn't sell them anymore, though they are in their catalog.
Thanks
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | H RULE <harvey.rule(at)rogers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Differences between GN-1 and regular Piet? |
I have a GN-1 and it is using what they call Grega mods.A guy by the name o
f =0AGrega one day decided to take the Pietenpol and modify it with J3 land
ing gear =0Awhich by the way makes it sit higher and changes the angle of t
he wing attacking =0Athe air.The wing itself is a J3 wing and in mine I emp
loy Aeronca controls.I'm =0Anot sure but I think he is also responsible for
the slit wing style or 3 part =0Awing with the piece in the middle and the
two half wings on either side.The =0Areason for this at the time, if memor
y serves me right, was because there were a =0Alot of J3 parts hanging arou
nd and it seemed like a good idea to use them.Some =0Aguys who own these th
ings like to call them Pietenpols but because Grega =0Amodified them they a
re or should be called GN-1 Aircampers.I call it the cousin =0Ato the Piete
npol for lack of a better description.Mine also employs a Franklin =0A80 hp
engine in it which Bernard never used either.He used model A Ford engines
=0Aand the Chev Corvair.If Bernard Pietenpol had used these same parts for
his =0Aplane it would still be called a Pietenpol and by the way the only d
umb question =0Ais the-question that is never asked.=0AYou will never kno
w anything if you don't ask.=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0A
From: Larry Vetter <vetter(at)evertek.net>=0ATo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
=0ASent: Mon, August 2, 2010 12:08:01 PM=0ASubject: Pietenpol-List: Differe
nces between GN-1 and regular Piet?=0A=0A--> Pietenpol-List message posted
by: "Larry Vetter" =0A=0AI'm still new to the Pietenpol
so I hope this isn't a dumb question, but what is =0Athe difference betwee
n the GN-1 models and the regular Pietenpol?=0AThanks.=0ALarry=0A=0A=0A=0A
=0ARead this topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.
- - - - - - - - - - - - -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
====
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | H RULE <harvey.rule(at)rogers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Differences between GN-1 and regular Piet? |
My GN-1 is made out of wood.I may be the only one ,I don't know.=0Ado not a
rchive=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: Dan Yocum <yo
cum(at)fnal.gov>=0ATo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Mon, August 2, 201
0 12:36:22 PM=0ASubject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Differences between GN-1 and r
al.gov>=0A=0AHi Larry,=0A=0AFirst off, I want to say that some of what I'm
about to tell you is almost =0Acertainly wrong, and lots of people have lot
s of strong feelings and opinions on =0Athe topic.- I'm not here to start
a long drawn out discussion on the finer =0Adifferences of the 2 designs,
just point out the things I do know, observed, or =0Aheard.=0A=0AThe Grega
GN-1 Aircamper (note the single word) is a derivation of the Pietenpol =0AA
ir Camper (2 words).- In the 50's and 60's there was a surplus of Piper C
ub =0Aparts around: engines, engine mounts, wings, gear, etc. which John Gr
ega used to =0Acreate a parasol design that looked an awful lot like a Piet
enpol Air Camper.=0A=0AThe most obvious visual differences between the two
are the gear attach points =0Aand the number of stringers on the fuselage.
=0A=0AOn a Pietenpol, the gear attach to the fuse at the same place the win
g lift =0Astruts attach.- On the GN-1, the rear gear attach point doesn't
reach the rear =0Awing lift strut since the Cub gear are not as narrow fro
nt-to-back.- On a =0APietenpol there is only one fabric stringer down the
side of the fuselage.- On =0Athe GN-1 there are 2 stringers.=0A=0ASome G
N-1s have Cub wings which are the USA35b airfoil with no undercamber on =0A
the wings.- A true Pietenpol uses an FC-10, which does have an undercambe
r.=0A=0AI believe that all GN-1s are steel fuselages and Pietenpols can be
either wood =0Aor steel, but most are wood (I think).=0A=0AGrega's are almo
st always powered by a Continental, while Pietenpols are powered =0Aby Ford
As, Continentals, Corvairs, Franklins, etc.=0A=0AYou can still buy Pietenp
ol plans from the Pietenpol family, but the Grega Plans =0Aare not being pr
oduced anymore.- Sometimes you can find them for sale on Ebay, =0ABarnsto
rmers, or someone here on the list.=0A=0AThere are more, finer details "in
the archives" but I'll leave that search up to =0Ayou.=0A=0ACheers,=0ADan
=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AOn 08/02/2010 11:08 AM, Larry Vetter wrote:=0A> -->- Piete
npol-List message posted by: "Larry Vetter"=0A> =0A> I'
m still new to the Pietenpol so I hope this isn't a dumb question, but what
=0A>is the difference between the GN-1 models and the regular Pietenpol?
=0A>- Thanks.=0A>- Larry=0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> Read this topic online
here:=0A> =0A> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307195#307195
=0A> =0A> =0A> =0A=0A=0A-- Dan Yocum=0AFermilab- 630.840.6509=0Ayocum@fna
l.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov=0A"I fly because it releases my mind from
==
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: plug ends of harness question |
| From: | helspersew(at)aol.com |
Douwe,
If you need more of those ceramic ciggarettes, I bought some from Univair
a couple of years ago. If you need help with this contact me off-list. I
am sure I still have their part numbers somewhere.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
-----Original Message-----
From: Douwe Blumberg <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Sent: Mon, Aug 2, 2010 11:45 am
Subject: Pietenpol-List: plug ends of harness question
I am kinda new to the Continental engine and have a question about the cer
amic cigarette and spring end on the harness where it screws into the spar
k plug.
Some of these are missing and all that is on the end of the harness wire
is a hole where the little spring came out of. The shipper put duct tape
around the end of all of them, and when I removed it, it pulled a couple
other springs out as well.
Do I just get replacements and just push the spring ends into the holes or
what?
ACSS doesn=99t sell them anymore, though they are in their catalog.
Thanks
Douwe
========================
===========
-= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum -
-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
-= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
-= Photoshare, and much much more:
-
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
-
-========================
========================
===========
-= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
-= Same great content also available via the Web Forums!
-
-= --> http://forums.matronics.com
-
-========================
========================
===========
-= - List Contribution Web Site -
-= Thank you for your generous support!
-= -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
-========================
========================
===========
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Differences between GN-1 and regular Piet? |
Some Gregas have wood fuselages.
Another difference is that the Grega fuselage is narrower (I think 21
versus 24 inches) and the sides are sheathed in plywood all the way
back to the tailpost as opposed to sheathing ending right behind the
pilot's seat in the Pietenpol.
Another differences is that I don't think Gregas have an option for a
wind tank - the design was to use a Cub fuselage tank.
Another difference is the aileron cabling from the control stick.
It's very different, but beyond my ability to describe in text.
>
>Hi Larry,
>
>First off, I want to say that some of what I'm about to tell you is
>almost certainly wrong, and lots of people have lots of strong
>feelings and opinions on the topic. I'm not here to start a long
>drawn out discussion on the finer differences of the 2 designs, just
>point out the things I do know, observed, or heard.
>
>The Grega GN-1 Aircamper (note the single word) is a derivation of
>the Pietenpol Air Camper (2 words). In the 50's and 60's there was
>a surplus of Piper Cub parts around: engines, engine mounts, wings,
>gear, etc. which John Grega used to create a parasol design that
>looked an awful lot like a Pietenpol Air Camper.
>
>The most obvious visual differences between the two are the gear
>attach points and the number of stringers on the fuselage.
>
>On a Pietenpol, the gear attach to the fuse at the same place the
>wing lift struts attach. On the GN-1, the rear gear attach point
>doesn't reach the rear wing lift strut since the Cub gear are not as
>narrow front-to-back. On a Pietenpol there is only one fabric
>stringer down the side of the fuselage. On the GN-1 there are 2
>stringers.
>
>Some GN-1s have Cub wings which are the USA35b airfoil with no
>undercamber on the wings. A true Pietenpol uses an FC-10, which
>does have an undercamber.
>
>I believe that all GN-1s are steel fuselages and Pietenpols can be
>either wood or steel, but most are wood (I think).
>
>Grega's are almost always powered by a Continental, while Pietenpols
>are powered by Ford As, Continentals, Corvairs, Franklins, etc.
>
>You can still buy Pietenpol plans from the Pietenpol family, but the
>Grega Plans are not being produced anymore. Sometimes you can find
>them for sale on Ebay, Barnstormers, or someone here on the list.
>
>There are more, finer details "in the archives" but I'll leave that
>search up to you.
>
>Cheers,
>Dan
>
>
>On 08/02/2010 11:08 AM, Larry Vetter wrote:
>>--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Larry Vetter"
>>
>>I'm still new to the Pietenpol so I hope this isn't a dumb
>>question, but what is the difference between the GN-1 models and
>>the regular Pietenpol?
>> Thanks.
>> Larry
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Read this topic online here:
>>
>>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307195#307195
>>
--
Jeff Boatright
"Now let's think about this..."
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | H RULE <harvey.rule(at)rogers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Differences between GN-1 and regular Piet? |
Yes the cabling doesn't criscross like it does in the Piet.It goes down eit
her =0Aside of the front cockpit.There is no wing looking attachment piece
for them in =0Athe middle.My Grega or GN-1 weighs 777 lbs empty.I'm sure th
is is because of the =0Aextra wood that Jeff speaks of.=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A_____
___________________________=0AFrom: Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu>=0ATo
: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Mon, August 2, 2010 1:00:28 PM=0ASub
ject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Differences between GN-1 and regular Piet?=0A=0A-
=0ASome Gregas have wood fuselages.=0A=0AAnother difference is that the Gre
ga fuselage is narrower (I think 21 versus 24 =0Ainches) and the sides are
sheathed in plywood all the way back to the tailpost =0Aas opposed to sheat
hing ending right behind the pilot's seat in the Pietenpol.=0A=0AAnother di
fferences is that I don't think Gregas have an option for a wind tank =0A-
the design was to use a Cub fuselage tank.=0A=0AAnother difference is the a
ileron cabling from the control stick. It's very =0Adifferent, but beyond m
y ability to describe in text.=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A> --> Pietenpol-List message p
osted by: Dan Yocum =0A> =0A> Hi Larry,=0A> =0A> First off,
I want to say that some of what I'm about to tell you is almost =0A>certai
nly wrong, and lots of people have lots of strong feelings and opinions on
=0A>the topic.- I'm not here to start a long drawn out discussion on the
finer =0A>differences of the 2 designs, just point out the things I do know
, observed, or =0A>heard.=0A> =0A> The Grega GN-1 Aircamper (note the singl
e word) is a derivation of the =0A>Pietenpol Air Camper (2 words).- In th
e 50's and 60's there was a surplus of =0A>Piper Cub parts around: engines,
engine mounts, wings, gear, etc. which John =0A>Grega used to create a par
asol design that looked an awful lot like a Pietenpol =0A>Air Camper.=0A>
=0A> The most obvious visual differences between the two are the gear attac
h points =0A>and the number of stringers on the fuselage.=0A> =0A> On a Pie
tenpol, the gear attach to the fuse at the same place the wing lift =0A>str
uts attach.- On the GN-1, the rear gear attach point doesn't reach the re
ar =0A>wing lift strut since the Cub gear are not as narrow front-to-back.
- On a =0A>Pietenpol there is only one fabric stringer down the side of t
he fuselage.- On =0A>the GN-1 there are 2 stringers.=0A> =0A> Some GN-1s
have Cub wings which are the USA35b airfoil with no undercamber on =0A>the
wings.- A true Pietenpol uses an FC-10, which does have an undercamber.
=0A> =0A> I believe that all GN-1s are steel fuselages and Pietenpols can b
e either wood =0A>or steel, but most are wood (I think).=0A> =0A> Grega's a
re almost always powered by a Continental, while Pietenpols are =0A>powered
by Ford As, Continentals, Corvairs, Franklins, etc.=0A> =0A> You can still
buy Pietenpol plans from the Pietenpol family, but the Grega =0A>Plans are
not being produced anymore.- Sometimes you can find them for sale on =0A
>Ebay, Barnstormers, or someone here on the list.=0A> =0A> There are more,
finer details "in the archives" but I'll leave that search up =0A>to you.
=0A> =0A> Cheers,=0A> Dan=0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> On 08/02/2010 11:08 AM, L
arry Vetter wrote:=0A>> -->- Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Larry Vet
ter"=0A>> =0A>> I'm still new to the Pietenpol so I hop
e this isn't a dumb question, but what =0A>>is the difference between the G
N-1 models and the regular Pietenpol?=0A>>- Thanks.=0A>>- Larry=0A>>
=0A>> =0A>> =0A>> =0A>> Read this topic online here:=0A>> =0A>> http://foru
ms.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307195#307195=0A>> =0A=0A-- =0AJeff Boat
- - - - - - - - - - - - -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
====
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Differences between GN-1 and regular Piet? |
| From: | "Billy McCaskill" <billmz(at)cox.net> |
I have the Grega plans as well as Piet plans, and the Grega plans do have the wooden
fuselage shown as well as the steel tube fuselage. The wood fuselage does
have plywood sheeting the full length of it. As I don't have the plans in
front of me, I cannot comment on the width of the fuselage (24" vs. 21") as Jeff
mentioned. There was also nothing on the plans about Jenny-style gear either.
Recommended engine was a standard 4 cylinder aircraft engine, no mention
is made of either Model A or Corvair for power. Also, the Grega wing attach fittings
don't allow for moving the wing fore/aft to accommodate changes for weight
and balance issues. Also, the Grega airfoil shown in the plans is quite
dfferent from the Pietenpol's FC10 airfoil, and the aileron hinging method is
also very different. I'm sure there are many more differences, but these are
what I can remember without having the plans in front of me at the moment.
--------
Billy McCaskill
Urbana, IL
tailfeathers almost done
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307221#307221
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Happy birthday, Corky! |
Corky Corbett, builder of Air Camper N41CC, has a birthday
today (unless my memory is fading). He's probably long
past the point of caring about candles to blow out, but
if he were to give it a try, he'd need to huff 87 of them
out today or he wouldn't get his wish ;o)
Thanks for a fun and capable airplane, SIR!
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Happy birthday, Corky! |
Happy Birthday, Corky! Hope you and Isabelle are doing well, and having
fun.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Oscar Zuniga
Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 2:36 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Happy birthday, Corky!
Corky Corbett, builder of Air Camper N41CC, has a birthday
today (unless my memory is fading). He's probably long
past the point of caring about candles to blow out, but
if he were to give it a try, he'd need to huff 87 of them
out today or he wouldn't get his wish ;o)
Thanks for a fun and capable airplane, SIR!
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jeff wilson <jlwilsonnn(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | GN-1 Grega Plans |
Since it has come up, if anyone wants a set of John Grega GN-1 plans, I hav
e set #2397 that I purchased from John Grega in 1994. I never used them and
they are still in excellent condition. I have made a couple copies for oth
er folks and if anyone here would like a copy I would be happy to make a se
t for you for $20 bucks. Basically covers copying and mailing. And if anyon
e is real sentimental you might be able to talk me out of the originals. Th
ey are dated numbered and signed by John Grega.
I'm building a Pietenpol long fuse and never even really studied the GN-1 p
lans much so I can't really answer any particular questions. It uses a lot
of parts from production aircraft like Piper. Gear are J-3 or Colt, J-3 fue
l tank and cowl, but plans are included to build your own,- and he recomm
ends only aircraft engines in the 65 to 85 hp range. He recommends wood fab
rication but also includes steel tube plans as did Bernard. The airfoil is
under-cambered like the Piet but the leading edge radius is- greater for
better stall characteristics.- Width of rear cockpit is 21 3/4" at the in
strument panel. Plywood panel all the way to tail post. Fuse from firewall
to tail post is 169.25 in.- Control system is different, period. Contact
me off site if you want. My email should be in the header.
Jeff Wilson
N899WT (R)
St. Louis, MO
Flyin Low and Slow
=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Elevator cable slack |
| From: | "Jerry Dotson" <jdotson(at)erec.net> |
Thanks for the replies folks. I'm gonna quit fretting over cable slack and get
back to building. Sure is hot out there this week.
--------
Jerry Dotson
59 Daniel Johnson Rd
Baker, FL 32531
Started building NX510JD July, 2009
Ribs and tailfeathers done
using Lycoming O-235
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307231#307231
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Differences between GN-1 and regular Piet? |
| From: | "Larry Vetter" <vetter(at)evertek.net> |
Thanks guys for the replies. I now have a better idea in the differences.
I ended up with a pair of airframes (Pietenpols)and parts last winter. I hauled
them home from St.Paul. Kirk Huizinga had them, one of which had been built
and flown for a number of years in MN. Air Camper #1 was built by Hans Meyer and
had a corvair like Bernie's conversion leaving the cooling fan in place. Air
Camper # 2 came from Michigan and has never flown. Both planes were totally
tore down. Kirk had them for a number of years and decide he wasn't going to have
the chance to get at least one of them finished.
He has a good start on one engine, but everything else is in pieces. Air Camper
# 1 will be the one that I hope to get back to flying condition, and Air Camper
#2.... well I have my doubts about it. So that is where I am at the moment.
Being able to get to Brodhead helped as I was able to look at how things are,
and the many different ways of doing things.
I'm still trying to get a shop set up to work in, so as soon as thats done I hope
to get started.
Thanks again for the replies.
Larry
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307245#307245
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Differences between GN-1 and regular Piet? |
| From: | "skellytown flyer" <skellflyer1(at)yahoo.com> |
OK my GN-1 or as most- a modified version has wood fuselage widened and lengthened
with a front door,plywood was not extended all the way back-only behind the
rear seat, Cub gear,under camber wing-3 piece, Corvair engine no doubt many
more mods. I removed the nose tank and installed a center section tank in the
wing and put the battery behind the rear seat to make the G come in. Raymond.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307248#307248
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Photos from Brodhead 2010 |
| From: | Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
Great reconnaissance work Bill, thank you.
rick
On Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 10:24 PM, Billy McCaskill wrote:
>
> Okay Piet lovers, I have managed to edit, resize and upload to
> photobucket.com the 400 photos that I took this past weekend. They have
> been sized to 800x600 so that they load quickly for easier viewing. Hope
> that you all enjoy them!
>
>
> http://s238.photobucket.com/albums/ff297/billmz/Brodhead%20Pietenpol%20Fly-In%202010/
>
> --------
> Billy McCaskill
> Urbana, IL
> tailfeathers almost done
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=306527#306527
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Visit to the Groah's |
All,
You will remember this post from a few days ago from Mike and Vic Groah.
Knowing that Mike has certain =91skills=92 with Photoshop, and having
nothing
better to do today, I made the 4 =BD hour drive to their shop, just to
see for
myself if that cowl was deserving of Jack Phillip=92s kind
remarks=85.and it is!
Still with some work left to do, that cowl is ONE NICE FIT!! Vic claims
that
he just beat the aluminum in to submission, but I learned the real
secret
for their craftsmanship. To do a cowl like theirs, both the top and the
bottom have to be curved. Living in a rural setting, they have a variety
of
trees, poles and fence posts, from which to choose the most advantageous
radius=85.and there=92s no denying the results.
As threatened, upon entering their shop, they made me remove my glasses
and
put an eye patch over my good eye; but that didn=92t keep me from
finding some
treasures on their workbench. Understanding Pietenpolers, they politely
turned their backs, pretending to be discussing the next step on the oil
cooler cut out, allowing me the dignity of absconding some cool items
under
my t-shirt, thereby saving face with the Pietenpol Community. I made off
with some neat, plastic spark plug wire number tabs (I always lose count
after 5), and a cool Pietenpol vinyl logo made in Mike=92s design (I may
secretly stick that on someone=92s RV at the next EAA meeting), and a
VERY
handy used distributor shaft. Corvairists know that we use an old shaft
to
spin up the oil pressure before the first start.
Then, in true rural California style, they took me to lunch, where they
continued to grill me. I=92m pretty sure they were trying to figure out
if my
intentions with my Pietenpol are honorable!
Thanks Mike & Vic!! I=92ll return the distributor shaft, soon=85.unless
my oil
pressure doesn=92t come up=85in which event, no telling how far I can
huck that
thing from my back yard deck=85
Gary Boothe
Cool, CA
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
20 ribs done
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael
Groah
Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2010 7:29 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: project progress update
I don't post very often, as I like to sit back and just soak up the
information from everyone else,
but I told Gary Boothe I'd send him a pic or two updating the progress
on my
cowl and I figured
I'd let everyone else see too. All of the firewall forward stuff really
eats a lot of time and seems like
it doesn't show. Friends drop by hearing that we have been working on
the
plane and I'm sure they
can't see any progress. We do although, have the engine just about
ready to
run, as soon as I get the
carb rebuilt and the air filter mounted. The
cowl is getting closer, but there is still a bunch to do there
as well. My dad (Vic) and I are still plugging away at it out here in
California, and may actually finish
it one of these days! Anyways, I'm gonna go grab my wife and daughter
and
go enjoy the morning air
flying the Piper. Keep building!
Mike Groah
Tulare CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Landing gear in the plans |
| From: | "j_dunavin" <j_dunavin(at)hotmail.com> |
so which landing gear is better? Or rather could someone give me a pros cons list?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307264#307264
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KM Heide CPO/FAAOP <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com> |
First off....computer issues. Please disregard the last two messages as thi
s electronic visual sending contraption is acting up.....
-
-
Members of the list:
-
The long and short.....Long version: sold Pietenpol project due to business
/financial/family
-------------------------
------ reasons. Sellers regret!
-------------------------
-.....Short version: starting over from scratch!
-
Since I am a wide body pilot, I would like to know the modifications to the
fuse that many are making in length, width, and depth for us larger pilots
. I am in search of added over-all length for other reason too. My last fus
e frame was 6" wider to accommodate my size. Anyone made depth changes to t
he fuse to settle down inside a bit more? Any fuse modification to improve
the plane or mods to offer ease of other building issues is much appreciate
!
-
respectfully yours,
-
village idiot!=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KM Heide CPO/FAAOP <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com> |
-
=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KM Heide CPO/FAAOP <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com> |
Members of the list:
-
The long and short.....Long version: sold Pietenpol project due to business
/financial/family
-------------------------
--- reasons. Sellers regret!
-
-
=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Thanks, Chris, for the Paint templates |
| From: | John Fay <jfay1950(at)gmail.com> |
Thanks, Chris, for the Paint templates at West Coast Piet.
I tried them Friday evening, and over the weekend learned how to use them.
I came up with 5 different color schemes so far. I was using U of IL colors
(signal blue and orange) since my build partner and my son are both
engineering graduates of the U of I.
I have attached them here in case any of you are curious about what they
look like or want to use them yourself.
Thanks again, Chris.
John Fay in Peoria
(Could only attach two, the files were too large.)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | AMsafetyC(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Fuse Questions! |
Ken
I'm a pretty wide glide myself I widened my fuse by 3 inches so I am 27" to
the inside and 29 outside dimension from the longerons. I carried that
from the firewall to the rear seat back frame on a long fuse design. no
changes to length or depth and to tell ya the truth last time I tried it on it
felt good. That's about all I can tell ya, other than welcome back to the
build.
John
First off....computer issues. Please disregard the last two messages
as this electronic visual sending contraption is acting up.....
Members of the list:
The long and short.....Long version: sold Pietenpol project due to
business/financial/family
reasons. Sellers regret!
.....Short version: starting over from scratch!
Since I am a wide body pilot, I would like to know the modifications to
the fuse that many are making in length, width, and depth for us larger
pilots. I am in search of added over-all length for other reason too. My last
fuse frame was 6" wider to accommodate my size. Anyone made depth changes to
the fuse to settle down inside a bit more? Any fuse modification to improve
the plane or mods to offer ease of other building issues is much
appreciate!
respectfully yours,
village idiot!
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List)
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
Aren't some also increasing wing span? Seems I saw some 4' center sections.
Gary Boothe
Cool, CA
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
20 ribs done
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
AMsafetyC(at)aol.com
Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 7:49 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuse Questions!
Ken
I'm a pretty wide glide myself I widened my fuse by 3 inches so I am 27" to
the inside and 29 outside dimension from the longerons. I carried that from
the firewall to the rear seat back frame on a long fuse design. no changes
to length or depth and to tell ya the truth last time I tried it on it felt
good. That's about all I can tell ya, other than welcome back to the build.
John
First off....computer issues. Please disregard the last two messages as this
electronic visual sending contraption is acting up.....
Members of the list:
The long and short.....Long version: sold Pietenpol project due to
business/financial/family
reasons. Sellers regret!
.....Short version: starting over from scratch!
Since I am a wide body pilot, I would like to know the modifications to the
fuse that many are making in length, width, and depth for us larger pilots.
I am in search of added over-all length for other reason too. My last fuse
frame was 6" wider to accommodate my size. Anyone made depth changes to the
fuse to settle down inside a bit more? Any fuse modification to improve the
plane or mods to offer ease of other building issues is much appreciate!
respectfully yours,
village idiot!
===================================
t
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
===================================
ms.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
===================================
tp://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
===================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Darrel Jones <wd6bor(at)vom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Visit to the Groah's |
Gary,
You're having entirely too much fun, looking at neat Pietenpol projects
like Mike's. With that nose, I'm wondering where the P-51 chin scoop is
for the radiator. All it needs is a big spinner and some nose art and it
would be right at home in the European Theater of Operations, with some
eighteen year old fly-boy grinning from under a leather helmet and goggles.
You might want to Photoshop Mike up in those.
Darrel
On 8/2/2010 7:07 PM, Gary Boothe wrote:
>
> All,
>
> You will remember this post from a few days ago from Mike and Vic
> Groah. Knowing that Mike has certain 'skills' with Photoshop, and
> having nothing better to do today, I made the 4 hour drive to their
> shop, just to see for myself if that cowl was deserving of Jack
> Phillip's kind remarks....and it is! Still with some work left to do,
> that cowl is ONE NICE FIT!! Vic claims that he just beat the aluminum
> in to submission, but I learned the real secret for their
> craftsmanship. To do a cowl like theirs, both the top and the bottom
> have to be curved. Living in a rural setting, they have a variety of
> trees, poles and fence posts, from which to choose the most
> advantageous radius....and there's no denying the results.
>
> As threatened, upon entering their shop, they made me remove my
> glasses and put an eye patch over my good eye; but that didn't keep me
> from finding some treasures on their workbench. Understanding
> Pietenpolers, they politely turned their backs, pretending to be
> discussing the next step on the oil cooler cut out, allowing me the
> dignity of absconding some cool items under my t-shirt, thereby saving
> face with the Pietenpol Community. I made off with some neat, plastic
> spark plug wire number tabs (I always lose count after 5), and a cool
> Pietenpol vinyl logo made in Mike's design (I may secretly stick that
> on someone's RV at the next EAA meeting), and a VERY handy used
> distributor shaft. Corvairists know that we use an old shaft to spin
> up the oil pressure before the first start.
>
> Then, in true rural California style, they took me to lunch, where
> they continued to grill me. I'm pretty sure they were trying to figure
> out if my intentions with my Pietenpol are honorable!
>
> Thanks Mike & Vic!! I'll return the distributor shaft, soon....unless
> my oil pressure doesn't come up...in which event, no telling how far I
> can huck that thing from my back yard deck...
>
> Gary Boothe
>
> Cool, CA
>
> Pietenpol
>
> WW Corvair Conversion
>
> Tail done, Fuselage on gear
>
> 20 ribs done
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Engelkenjohn" <mushface1(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Differences between GN-1 and regular Piet? |
Is home Manson, Iowa?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Vetter" <vetter(at)evertek.net>
Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 4:41 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Differences between GN-1 and regular Piet?
>
> Thanks guys for the replies. I now have a better idea in the differences.
>
> I ended up with a pair of airframes (Pietenpols)and parts last winter. I
> hauled them home from St.Paul. Kirk Huizinga had them, one of which had
> been built and flown for a number of years in MN. Air Camper #1 was built
> by Hans Meyer and had a corvair like Bernie's conversion leaving the
> cooling fan in place. Air Camper # 2 came from Michigan and has never
> flown. Both planes were totally tore down. Kirk had them for a number of
> years and decide he wasn't going to have the chance to get at least one of
> them finished.
> He has a good start on one engine, but everything else is in pieces. Air
> Camper # 1 will be the one that I hope to get back to flying condition,
> and Air Camper #2.... well I have my doubts about it. So that is where I
> am at the moment. Being able to get to Brodhead helped as I was able to
> look at how things are, and the many different ways of doing things.
>
> I'm still trying to get a shop set up to work in, so as soon as thats done
> I hope to get started.
> Thanks again for the replies.
>
> Larry
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307245#307245
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Landing gear in the plans |
| From: | "Billy McCaskill" <billmz(at)cox.net> |
Well, the Jenny gear looks much better and gets a lot more attention wherever you
fly into, but it is heavier than the steel-tube split gear. Personally I think
that it will be much easier to build the Jenny-style gear, but I am far better
at woodworking than at cutting and welding steel tubing. That's my take
on the landing gear situation...
--------
Billy McCaskill
Urbana, IL
tail section almost done, starting on ribs soon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307281#307281
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Willis <timothywillis(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Happy birthday, Corky! |
Corky,
Happy Birthday and many regards to you and Isabelle.
Tim in central TX
-----Original Message-----
>From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
>Sent: Aug 2, 2010 1:35 PM
>To: Pietenpol List
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Happy birthday, Corky!
>
>
>Corky Corbett, builder of Air Camper N41CC, has a birthday
>today (unless my memory is fading). He's probably long
>past the point of caring about candles to blow out, but
>if he were to give it a try, he'd need to huff 87 of them
>out today or he wouldn't get his wish ;o)
>
>Thanks for a fun and capable airplane, SIR!
>
>Oscar Zuniga
>Air Camper NX41CC
>San Antonio, TX
>mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
>website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Landing gear in the plans |
| From: | helspersew(at)aol.com |
j_, (would like to know your first name)
The wood gear is heavier but looks cooler. The wood gear has more drag but
looks coooler. The wood gear is harder to make but looks cooler. I chose
the Pietenpol to build because it was the coolest-looking airplane around
. So the choice is yours to make. Now there are some instructions for the
wood gear on westcoastpiet.com that make it much easier (thanks Chris Tra
cy).
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
-----Original Message-----
From: j_dunavin <j_dunavin(at)hotmail.com>
Sent: Mon, Aug 2, 2010 9:37 pm
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Landing gear in the plans
so which landing gear is better? Or rather could someone give me a pros co
ns
ist?
ead this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307264#307264
========================
===========
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-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
-= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
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-
-========================
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===========
-= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
-= Same great content also available via the Web Forums!
-
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-= -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
-========================
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===========
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | H RULE <harvey.rule(at)rogers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Landing gear in the plans |
You can now get paint that makes the metal look like wood and that looks co
ol =0Atoo.=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: "helspers
ew(at)aol.com" =0ATo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com=0ASent:
Tue, August 3, 2010 7:14:06 AM=0ASubject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Landing
gear in the plans=0A=0Aj_, (would like to know your first name)=0A=0AThe wo
od gear is heavier but looks cooler. The wood gear has more drag but looks
=0Acoooler. The wood gear is harder to make but looks cooler. I chose the P
ietenpol =0Ato build because it was the coolest-looking airplane around. So
the choice is =0Ayours to make. Now there are some instructions for the wo
od gear on =0Awestcoastpiet.com that make it much easier (thanks Chris Trac
y).=0A=0ADan Helsper=0APoplar Grove, IL.=0A=0A=0A=0A-=0A=0A=0A-----Origin
al Message-----=0AFrom: j_dunavin <j_dunavin(at)hotmail.com>=0ATo: pietenpol-l
ist(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Mon, Aug 2, 2010 9:37 pm=0ASubject: Pietenpol-Lis
t: Re: Landing gear in the plans=0A=0A=0A--> Pietenpol-List message posted
by: "j_dunavin" so =0Awhich landing gear is better
? Or rather could someone give me a pros cons list? =0ARead this topic
online here: =0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307264#3072
64 =0A====================
================ t" =0Atarget=_blank>http
://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List =0A========
=== tp://forums.matronics.com =0A============
========================
=0A_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution =0A========
===================== =0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Another Very Nice Piet Underway |
Last night I met the inimitable Jim Markle at the home of Chuck Borsuk to
view Chuck's progress on his Pietenpol (well, partly to view Chuck's
progress and partly to harass Mr. Markle).
Chuck is doing an outstanding job, in the neatest woodshop I've ever seen
(he posted pictures of it a couple of weeks ago, but the pictures don't do
it justice). The "standard" for quality Pietenpol construction continues to
go up.
Here's a picture of the three of us, with a rib just popped from the jig
(gussets have not been trimmed yet):
Jim reports that his Piet is just about ready for cover, so there's a chance
we'll see it flying into Brodhead next summer.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "TOM STINEMETZE" <TOMS(at)mcpcity.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Visit to the Groah's |
Mike and Vic:
I agree, that is one sweet (or swheat as we spell it in Kansas) looking
cowl. One question though. Are you just daylighting the exhaust at the
end of the cast exhaust log or will you have to hog some more metal out to
make room for a pipe?
Tom Stinemetze
N328X
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Visit to the Groah's |
Tom,
I can answer for Mike.both exhausts exit nicely at the bottom. You will
barely see it in the attached.
Gary Boothe
Cool, CA
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
20 ribs done
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of TOM
STINEMETZE
Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 5:57 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Visit to the Groah's
Mike and Vic:
I agree, that is one sweet (or swheat as we spell it in Kansas) looking
cowl. One question though. Are you just daylighting the exhaust at the end
of the cast exhaust log or will you have to hog some more metal out to make
room for a pipe?
Tom Stinemetze
N328X
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Differences between GN-1 and regular Piet? |
| From: | "Larry Vetter" <vetter(at)evertek.net> |
mushface1(at)gmail.com wrote:
> Is home Manson, Iowa?
>
>
> ---
Yes Sir..
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307300#307300
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "TOM STINEMETZE" <TOMS(at)mcpcity.com> |
| Subject: | Visit to the Groah's |
Wow, that's impressive! It doesn't appear possible to make the exhaust
turn that quickly behind the exhaust log but, obviously, they were able
to get it accomplished. I would sure like to see a close up of the back
side of the head to see how they did it.
Stinemetze
N328X
>>> "Gary Boothe" 8/3/2010 8:11 AM >>>
Tom,
I can answer for Mikeboth exhausts exit nicely at the bottom. You will
barely see it in the attached.
Gary Boothe
Cool, CA
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
20 ribs done
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Baldeagle" <baldeagle27(at)earthlink.net> |
Had a great time at the Piet fly-in, but saw one safety issue that I thought should
be addressed. The flyby pattern used to be a regular rectangular pattern
with downwind south of the airport and flyby passes over the north hangar area,
south of the runway and not over it, parallel to and same direction as landing
traffic. This year I saw Pietenpols doing flybys upwind, downwind, and crosswind,
and even circling in the flyby pattern. All it would take is for one
time for two guys to not see each other and it would be a bad deal. I would
suggest that a standard flyby pattern be enumerated for all participants and maybe
posted in various places during the fly-in.
Other than that, enjoyed seeing the new and old airplanes, new and old people,
and getting the Rudolph Piet back in the air.
-
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307307#307307
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
Good point, Rob - particularly because there are few airplanes with worse
visibility in a turn than a Pietenpol.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Baldeagle
Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 10:27 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead flybys
Had a great time at the Piet fly-in, but saw one safety issue that I thought
should be addressed. The flyby pattern used to be a regular rectangular
pattern with downwind south of the airport and flyby passes over the north
hangar area, south of the runway and not over it, parallel to and same
direction as landing traffic. This year I saw Pietenpols doing flybys
upwind, downwind, and crosswind, and even circling in the flyby pattern.
All it would take is for one time for two guys to not see each other and it
would be a bad deal. I would suggest that a standard flyby pattern be
enumerated for all participants and maybe posted in various places during
the fly-in.
Other than that, enjoyed seeing the new and old airplanes, new and old
people, and getting the Rudolph Piet back in the air.
-
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307307#307307
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> |
Here's my $.02 cents on the different landing gears. (and worth every
penny!)
"Jenny gear" is significantly heavier due to that big 'ole axle, and one has
to devise some clever means to keep the axle from rotating if one uses
brakes. From all my reading of old newsletter back issues and FAA accident
reports, and my own experience this spring I believe the Jenny gear has
proven itself to be the stronger design. I do not believe it is easier to
make, on the contrary, I think it is one of the trickiest parts of the whole
project. Welding up the split gear would be much easier in my opnion.
"split gear" (shouldn't really call it a cub gear because it predated the
cub) is much lighter, easier to make and simpler to install brakes on.
This gear also won't catch tall weeds or crops in an off field landing and
flip one over as easily as the axle on the Jenny style will. Though Larry
Williams claims his Jenny gear axle saved him from nosing over in his off
field experience when he taxied into a hidden hole and the only thing
keeping the plane from going over was the axle catching on the edge of the
hole.
As beautify is in the eye of the beholder, I can't say which is prettier. I
love the nostalgic look and strength of the Jenny gear, but I also love a
split type gear with big wheels like Don Emch's, and you see that a lot in
old pictures.
Bernard Pietenpol didn't build too many with the Jenny gear before he went
to the split type gear and never looked back, mainly because he was BIG into
saving weight, and he claimed the split axle didn't catch weeds as much in
overgrown fields which they landed in a LOT.
I'm using the Jenny gear because its' nostalgia and strength.
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Boyer <boyerjrb(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Thanks, Chris, for the Paint templates |
John,
both paint schemes look good but I like the effect the one with White has.
It seems to keep the orange and blue in better balance. Good looking though
both of them.
Jim
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Fay" <jfay1950(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, August 2, 2010 7:44:41 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Thanks, Chris, for the Paint templates
Thanks, Chris, for the Paint templates at West Coast Piet.
=C2-
I tried them Friday evening, and over the weekend learned how to use them.
=C2- I came up with 5 different color schemes so far.=C2- I was using U
of IL colors (signal blue and orange) since my build partner and my son ar
e both engineering graduates of the U of I.
=C2-
I have attached them here in case any of you are curious about what they lo
ok like or want to use them yourself.
=C2-
Thanks again, Chris.
=C2-
John Fay in Peoria
(Could only attach two, the files were too large.)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Thanks, Chris, for the Paint templates |
| From: | John Fay <jfay1950(at)gmail.com> |
Jim,
The three or four that I have shown the schemes to all like #4 the best.
But I think I will need to consult with Dan Helsper, the Keeper of the Book,
to see if a three color paint scheme is permissable. It almost seems too
flashy to be in the spirit of Bernard Pietenpol.
John Fay
in Peoria
On Tue, Aug 3, 2010 at 10:18 AM, Jim Boyer wrote:
> John,
>
> both paint schemes look good but I like the effect the one with White has.
> It seems to keep the orange and blue in better balance. Good looking though
> both of them.
>
> Jim
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gene Rambo <generambo(at)msn.com> |
I agree 100% with Andrew's observations and would like to add one more safe
ty issue that really bothered me . . . propping airplanes! This year=2C I
saw every conceivable method used to prop airplanes. Often=2C a pilot woul
d request a bystander to give a prop=2C but it appeared that they did not a
lways know the individual or his experience/capabilities in propping aircra
ft.
I don't want to start yet another debate on the "proper" way to prop an air
plane=2C it depends on the engine=2C whether it has impulse couplings=2C et
c. There were people standing behind the prop and leaning wayyy into it to
prop (I know you know what you are doing -not saying name-=2C but it looke
d very=2C very dangerous every time you did it)=3B there were people holdin
g onto the very tip of the blade with their fingers slipping off 90% of the
time=3B there were the "leg swingers" who throw one leg almost over their
head before propping=2C ensuring that they are off-balance and possibly sti
ll on one foot with the raised leg in the way when the engine fired (it's a
65 Contintental=2C not a P&W 1340!)=3B and I saw one gentleman who=2C afte
r spinning the prop with no start=2C turned the prop slowly through several
blades with both hands WHILE THE IMPULSE COUPLING WAS CLICKING THE WHOLE T
IME and the switch still hot! There have been a couple of relatively minor
(I'm sure not to the recipients) propping injuries already=2C but it is a
matter of time until someone gets seriously injured.
To add to Andrew's suggestions=2C I propose that we encourage our group to
allow only known individuals to prop their aircraft=2C and possibly add a f
orum on hand propping to the Saturday lineup=2C out in front of the aircraf
t with differing engines/setups as demonstrations.
Gene Rambo
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead flybys
> From: baldeagle27(at)earthlink.net
> Date: Tue=2C 3 Aug 2010 07:27:29 -0700
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>
net>
>
> Had a great time at the Piet fly-in=2C but saw one safety issue that I th
ought should be addressed. The flyby pattern used to be a regular rectangul
ar pattern with downwind south of the airport and flyby passes over the nor
th hangar area=2C south of the runway and not over it=2C parallel to and sa
me direction as landing traffic. This year I saw Pietenpols doing flybys up
wind=2C downwind=2C and crosswind=2C and even circling in the flyby pattern
. All it would take is for one time for two guys to not see each other and
it would be a bad deal. I would suggest that a standard flyby pattern be en
umerated for all participants and maybe posted in various places during the
fly-in.
>
> Other than that=2C enjoyed seeing the new and old airplanes=2C new and ol
d people=2C and getting the Rudolph Piet back in the air.
>
>
>
>
> -
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307307#307307
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Crash - The Epilogue. Yet Another Long Post |
| From: | "kevinpurtee" <kevin.purtee(at)us.army.mil> |
Bottom Line Up Front: made it from Brodhead to Oshkosh and then back to Austin
safe and sound. Got home Monday, 2 August. Had a blast, even with all the drama.
Were already planning next years trip.
Details:
- Sunday, 25 Jul: After the dramatic Friday and the successful Saturday, I was
shooting landings at Brodhead. As I was taxiing the bungee on the repaired gear
broke. Fortunately, it happened as I was moving at a brisk walk (and most
of you people were already gone, thank God). Pretty frustrating but not tragic.
- Monday, 26 Jul: Went to Oshkosh to get repair parts and establish camp. Good
day.
- Tuesday, 27 Jul: Back to Brodhead to make field-expedient repair on gear. Success.
However, during the repair, I ran my face into the propeller tip and gave
myself a really good cut and bruise. Ive hit my head on the prop before and
have the scar to show for it. I had a tantrum. Not a little tantrum, but
the tantrum of a man who has just experienced the 5 most frustrating days of his
life. Fortunately, the place was virtually deserted. Shelley let me run on
and get it out. I was ready to burn the plane in place and drive home. She
helped me calm down, regain reason, and encouraged me to fly the airplane to
Oshkosh as planned. She even asked when it would be okay to laugh at me. We
crossed that threshold at about 8 pm that evening.
- Wednesday, 28 Jul: Landed on 36L at OSH and got parked between Bill Rewey and
the worlds most spectacular Hatz. Had a wonderful time the rest of the day.
- Thursday, 29 Jul: Another wonderful day enjoying OSH.
- Friday, 30 Jul: took off in the morning. Almost got run over by an RV my greatest
fear. Stopped early due to weather.
- Saturday, 31 Jul through Monday, 2 August: a routine flight back home. (One
minor note: I lost my SPOT personal locator beacon off the plane somewhere between
Iowa City and Cameron, MO. Didn't do a good job with the safety cord. Anyway,
Shelley looked it up on the internet and SPOT was dutifully reporting its
location every ten minutes. Fortunately, it told us it was laying on the approach
end of runway 36 at Lamoni, IA. I called the airport manager, he found
it and he's mailing it back to me. Great people in aviation!)
Thanks again to all of you who helped recover from the landing gear debacle. I
think I forgot to mention Gene Rambo in my last post. He helped a lot and I
appreciate it.
Look forward to seeing you guys next year.
Axel
--------
Kevin Purtee
NX899KP
Austin/Georgetown, TX
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307321#307321
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Brodhead flybys |
Most intelligent and needed post I've seen on this list in a long time.
CMC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
Well said, Douwe. I agree completely with everything you said.
One other consideration when making the Jenny style straight axle gear is
that from an engineering standpoint, it is a very inefficient design in that
the bending moment in the axle is constant across the entire length of the
axle from bungee to bungee. What this means is that it does no good to try
to beef up the highly stressed area because the stress is essentially
constant all along the axle. That requires a pretty substantial wall
thickness in the tubing, or heat treating to increase strength, or both. I
broke my first axle in a hard forced landing. It was 1.5" diameter, .125"
thick 4130. My new axle is 1.5" dia, .188" thick and heat treated to
160,000 psi ultimate strength. Going to the thicker wall added nearly 4 lbs
to the airplane.
If I were to build another Pietenpol, I would do the split axle gear with
wire wheels, as Don Emch did. It preserves most of the antique look while
saving considerable weight and bother.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Douwe
Blumberg
Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 10:49 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: landing gears
Here's my $.02 cents on the different landing gears. (and worth every
penny!)
"Jenny gear" is significantly heavier due to that big 'ole axle, and one has
to devise some clever means to keep the axle from rotating if one uses
brakes. From all my reading of old newsletter back issues and FAA accident
reports, and my own experience this spring I believe the Jenny gear has
proven itself to be the stronger design. I do not believe it is easier to
make, on the contrary, I think it is one of the trickiest parts of the whole
project. Welding up the split gear would be much easier in my opnion.
"split gear" (shouldn't really call it a cub gear because it predated the
cub) is much lighter, easier to make and simpler to install brakes on.
This gear also won't catch tall weeds or crops in an off field landing and
flip one over as easily as the axle on the Jenny style will. Though Larry
Williams claims his Jenny gear axle saved him from nosing over in his off
field experience when he taxied into a hidden hole and the only thing
keeping the plane from going over was the axle catching on the edge of the
hole.
As beautify is in the eye of the beholder, I can't say which is prettier. I
love the nostalgic look and strength of the Jenny gear, but I also love a
split type gear with big wheels like Don Emch's, and you see that a lot in
old pictures.
Bernard Pietenpol didn't build too many with the Jenny gear before he went
to the split type gear and never looked back, mainly because he was BIG into
saving weight, and he claimed the split axle didn't catch weeds as much in
overgrown fields which they landed in a LOT.
I'm using the Jenny gear because its' nostalgia and strength.
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Crash - The Epilogue. Yet Another Long Post |
| From: | John Fay <jfay1950(at)gmail.com> |
Kevin,
It was great to see you and your plane this year. That must be quite an
adventure to fly it all the way up from Texas.
Do you think you could bring Oscar Z. and Hans Van. with you next year.
Those are two guys I would really like to meet, and two planes I have been
waiting for years to see.
John Fay
in Peoria
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Crash - The Epilogue. Yet Another Long Post |
Glad you made it home safely, Kevin, and very glad to have met you. You are a
great ambassador for our favorite airplane, and obviously a very good pilot.
Looking forward to seeing you and Shelley there next year.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of kevinpurtee
Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 12:18 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Crash - The Epilogue. Yet Another Long Post
Bottom Line Up Front: made it from Brodhead to Oshkosh and then back to Austin
safe and sound. Got home Monday, 2 August. Had a blast, even with all the
drama. We?Tre already planning next year?Ts trip.
Details:
- Sunday, 25 Jul: After the dramatic Friday and the successful Saturday, I was
shooting landings at Brodhead. As I was taxiing the bungee on the repaired
gear broke. Fortunately, it happened as I was moving at a brisk walk (and
most of you people were already gone, thank God). Pretty frustrating but not
tragic.
- Monday, 26 Jul: Went to Oshkosh to get repair parts and establish camp.
Good day.
- Tuesday, 27 Jul: Back to Brodhead to make field-expedient repair on gear.
Success. However, during the repair, I ran my face into the propeller tip and
gave myself a really good cut and bruise. I?Tve hit my head on the prop
before and have the scar to show for it. I had a tantrum. Not a little
tantrum, but the tantrum of a man who has just experienced the 5 most
frustrating days of his life. Fortunately, the place was virtually deserted.
Shelley let me run on and get it out. I was ready to burn the plane in place
and drive home. She helped me calm down, regain reason, and encouraged me to
fly the airplane to Oshkosh as planned. She even asked when it would be okay
to laugh at me. We crossed that threshold at about 8 pm that evening.
- Wednesday, 28 Jul: Landed on 36L at OSH and got parked between Bill Rewey
and the world?Ts most spectacular Hatz. Had a wonderful time the rest of the
day.
- Thursday, 29 Jul: Another wonderful day enjoying OSH.
- Friday, 30 Jul: took off in the morning. Almost got run over by an RV ?"
my greatest fear. Stopped early due to weather.
- Saturday, 31 Jul through Monday, 2 August: a routine flight back home. (One
minor note: I lost my SPOT personal locator beacon off the plane somewhere
between Iowa City and Cameron, MO. Didn't do a good job with the safety cord.
Anyway, Shelley looked it up on the internet and SPOT was dutifully reporting
its location every ten minutes. Fortunately, it told us it was laying on the
approach end of runway 36 at Lamoni, IA. I called the airport manager, he
found it and he's mailing it back to me. Great people in aviation!)
Thanks again to all of you who helped recover from the landing gear debacle.
I think I forgot to mention Gene Rambo in my last post. He helped a lot and I
appreciate it.
Look forward to seeing you guys next year.
Axel
--------
Kevin Purtee
NX899KP
Austin/Georgetown, TX
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307321#307321
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Thanks, Chris, for the Paint templates |
Just be careful. The track record is not good for people who spend much
time thinking about their paint scheme before building the airplane. I
can't think of any that have actually finished their airplane after
developing a detailed paint scheme before fabric covering began.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Fay
Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 12:12 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Thanks, Chris, for the Paint templates
Jim,
The three or four that I have shown the schemes to all like #4 the best.
But I think I will need to consult with Dan Helsper, the Keeper of the Book,
to see if a three color paint scheme is permissable. It almost seems too
flashy to be in the spirit of Bernard Pietenpol.
John Fay
in Peoria
On Tue, Aug 3, 2010 at 10:18 AM, Jim Boyer wrote:
John,
both paint schemes look good but I like the effect the one with White has.
It seems to keep the orange and blue in better balance. Good looking though
both of them.
Jim
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Brodhead flybys |
| From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
Posting the pattern information sure sounds like a good idea... for the pilots
AND spectators. As for hand propping, I'll be honest, I've never done it. When
we were up there, my wife jokingly said to me, "hey, Bill needs you to prop
his plane." I said, "me?" She said, "no, just kidding, he's got a starter now."
I'm glad she was kidding because for a moment I was looking around for one
of the more experienced fellows to help Bill get going. I've watched several
people hand prop, and have never seen anyone hurt so far. I'm sure I can learn
the proper technique, but of all the ways I've seen it done, I'm not sure
which methods are right.
There was a hand propping demo in the Vintage area at Oshkosh a couple of times
a day, unfortunately I didn't get to see any of them. If a forum is offered
at Brodhead next year, I'd be interested in sitting in.
--------
Mark Chouinard
Finishing up Wings - Working on Center Section
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307336#307336
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | AMsafetyC(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Brodhead flybys |
Sounds like a good topic for training at next years fly in. The safe
procedure in hand propping. It is conceivable that we may all be faced with that
and no experience or knowledge of how to do it safely. It could be a life
saver or at least has the potential; of being one.
John
In a message dated 8/3/2010 1:30:53 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
hangar10(at)cox.net writes:
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "K5YAC"
Posting the pattern information sure sounds like a good idea... for the
pilots AND spectators. As for hand propping, I'll be honest, I've never done
it. When we were up there, my wife jokingly said to me, "hey, Bill needs
you to prop his plane." I said, "me?" She said, "no, just kidding, he's
got a starter now." I'm glad she was kidding because for a moment I was
looking around for one of the more experienced fellows to help Bill get going.
I've watched several people hand prop, and have never seen anyone hurt so
far. I'm sure I can learn the proper technique, but of all the ways I've
seen it done, I'm not sure which methods are right.
There was a hand propping demo in the Vintage area at Oshkosh a couple of
times a day, unfortunately I didn't get to see any of them. If a forum is
offered at Brodhead next year, I'd be interested in sitting in.
--------
Mark Chouinard
Finishing up Wings - Working on Center Section
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307336#307336
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Brodhead flybys |
My wife took the hand-propping course at OSH a couple of years ago. She
thought it was odd that the course was taught by a bunch of one-armed men.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of K5YAC
Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 1:30 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Brodhead flybys
Posting the pattern information sure sounds like a good idea... for the
pilots AND spectators. As for hand propping, I'll be honest, I've never
done it. When we were up there, my wife jokingly said to me, "hey, Bill
needs you to prop his plane." I said, "me?" She said, "no, just kidding,
he's got a starter now." I'm glad she was kidding because for a moment I
was looking around for one of the more experienced fellows to help Bill get
going. I've watched several people hand prop, and have never seen anyone
hurt so far. I'm sure I can learn the proper technique, but of all the ways
I've seen it done, I'm not sure which methods are right.
There was a hand propping demo in the Vintage area at Oshkosh a couple of
times a day, unfortunately I didn't get to see any of them. If a forum is
offered at Brodhead next year, I'd be interested in sitting in.
--------
Mark Chouinard
Finishing up Wings - Working on Center Section
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307336#307336
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Brodhead flybys |
| From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
Haaa ha! You are kidding, right?
pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net wrote:
> My wife took the hand-propping course at OSH a couple of years ago. She
> thought it was odd that the course was taught by a bunch of one-armed men.
>
> Jack Phillips
> NX899JP
> Raleigh, NC
>
> --
--------
Mark Chouinard
Finishing up Wings - Working on Center Section
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307348#307348
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Brodhead flybys |
No - it really was taught by several men, a couple of which only had one arm
each. Sort of drives the point home - to the point that she has never
propped an airplane, even though she has taken the training.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of K5YAC
Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 2:22 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Brodhead flybys
Haaa ha! You are kidding, right?
pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net wrote:
> My wife took the hand-propping course at OSH a couple of years ago. She
> thought it was odd that the course was taught by a bunch of one-armed men.
>
> Jack Phillips
> NX899JP
> Raleigh, NC
>
> --
--------
Mark Chouinard
Finishing up Wings - Working on Center Section
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307348#307348
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | AMsafetyC(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Brodhead flybys |
Okay, now ya got me. I was not going to bring this up however since it has
I need to comment on the pattern flight. From the ground watching the
approaches from several areas on the field, it appeared to me that downwind to
short final was more an arc rather than the squared off pattern we were and
still are required to fly, unless given a straight in approach. This may
have been from my ground vantage point of perspective but I saw few if any
fly a proper pattern. Now that could be because I am not a bean field flyer
or my occupational bent or an observation vantage point. But it seems like
field safety needs to be retrained or revisited each year as to reiterate
good safe pilotage and field operations. We certainly have an ample supply of
qualified instructors and safety people to put together short presentation
on all the safety topics
Just a suggestion for next years opening conference, never hurts to be safe
and remind everyone of the rules once a year. Everyone enjoys the flyin
lets not spoil a great time and wonderful event by one of a catastrophic
nature.
Just my opinion and observation, I apologize for the rant but I have held
off as long as I could.
Thanks
John
In a message dated 8/3/2010 1:52:15 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net writes:
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Jack Phillips"
My wife took the hand-propping course at OSH a couple of years ago. She
thought it was odd that the course was taught by a bunch of one-armed men.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of K5YAC
Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 1:30 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Brodhead flybys
Posting the pattern information sure sounds like a good idea... for the
pilots AND spectators. As for hand propping, I'll be honest, I've never
done it. When we were up there, my wife jokingly said to me, "hey, Bill
needs you to prop his plane." I said, "me?" She said, "no, just kidding,
he's got a starter now." I'm glad she was kidding because for a moment I
was looking around for one of the more experienced fellows to help Bill
get
going. I've watched several people hand prop, and have never seen anyone
hurt so far. I'm sure I can learn the proper technique, but of all the
ways
I've seen it done, I'm not sure which methods are right.
There was a hand propping demo in the Vintage area at Oshkosh a couple of
times a day, unfortunately I didn't get to see any of them. If a forum is
offered at Brodhead next year, I'd be interested in sitting in.
--------
Mark Chouinard
Finishing up Wings - Working on Center Section
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307336#307336
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Yocum <yocum(at)fnal.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: Brodhead flybys |
Hi Andrew,
Great comments - I hope Bill Weeden or one of the other chapter 431
people are on the list. If not, I'll forward him your comments. A
sheet of the fly-by rules would be a welcome addition to the
complimentary hat they hand out to pilots who bring their Pietenpols to
the show.
I recall seeing fly-by rules for the Grassroots fly-in several years
past, but honestly I didn't see them anywhere this year. I tried to
excercise best judgement and not do anything stupid, but upon reviewing
my GPS flight tracks, I was definitely an offender with a few cross-wind
passes at pattern altitude and one upwind pass close to the runway, but
still south of it. Mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.
Gents, if you observe yours truly doing anything stupid, please, please,
please lay a hand on my arm and say, "Son, now I know you didn't mean to
be dumb, but let me give you some advice..." I promise, I'll keep my
mouth shut and my ears open.
Again, my apologies,
Dan
On 08/03/2010 09:27 AM, Baldeagle wrote:
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Baldeagle"
>
> Had a great time at the Piet fly-in, but saw one safety issue that I thought
should be addressed. The flyby pattern used to be a regular rectangular pattern
with downwind south of the airport and flyby passes over the north hangar area,
south of the runway and not over it, parallel to and same direction as landing
traffic. This year I saw Pietenpols doing flybys upwind, downwind, and
crosswind, and even circling in the flyby pattern. All it would take is for one
time for two guys to not see each other and it would be a bad deal. I would
suggest that a standard flyby pattern be enumerated for all participants and
maybe posted in various places during the fly-in.
>
> Other than that, enjoyed seeing the new and old airplanes, new and old people,
and getting the Rudolph Piet back in the air.
>
>
> -
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307307#307307
>
>
--
Dan Yocum
Fermilab 630.840.6509
yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Crash - Brodhead can be frustating |
Kevin, I can relate to your frustation.- Similar to Dad and I had in 2006
enroute to Brodhead.- 1st was a forced landing due to weather, next day
sat. was a forced landing due to engine problems (tailgate overhaul of the
carborator to check for problems at JOT ILL).- Reassembled test flew by e
arly afternoon, and made it to Poplar Grove, and problem came back before I
even cleared the fence enroute to Brodhead.- Back around to land with ou
t incident.- I think Dad was ready to sell the piet for firewood, untill
he calmed down and we had a plan to trailer it home.- The farther that ex
periance becomes, the fonder the memory.- It's all part of the "Pietenpol
Experiance".
-
Shad
p.s.- at least your wife asked how long to wait before she could laugh at
you, mine tells me to quit being dramatic, and starts laughing, in turn I
join in.- God bless the women who put up with us.=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Brodhead flybys--excellent points |
I totally agree with Andrew King and Gene Rambo's recommendations and reali
ze that I was one of the contributors to these unsafe
practices by circling over the airport center, though a complete scan of th
e surrounding airspace was done before that circle it still
just isn't a wise thing to do with a handful of airplanes in the air over t
he airport on nice days like we had this year. Well said, good
points---we all want to come back again there safely next year with friends
and family and no missing fingers or hands.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Boyer <boyerjrb(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Crash - The Epilogue. Yet Another Long Post |
Hey Kevin,
It was really good meeting you and trying to encourage you during the LG tr
ibulations. Arlene and I are glad you had an enjoyable trip to Oshkosh and
safe trip home as well. Looking forward to seeing you next year at Brodhead
. The video Jesse took of your landing ought to be great encouragement to a
ll Piet builders/owners of good pilotage and sturdyness of the Piet.
Cheers and blue skies Kevin,
Jim and Arlene
----- Original Message -----
From: "kevinpurtee" <kevin.purtee(at)us.army.mil>
Sent: Tuesday, August 3, 2010 9:17:59 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Crash - The Epilogue. Yet Another Long Post
il>
Bottom Line Up Front: made it from Brodhead to Oshkosh and then back to Aus
tin safe and sound. =C2-Got home Monday, 2 August. =C2-Had a blast, eve
n with all the drama. =C2-We=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2re already planning n
ext year=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2s trip.
Details:
- Sunday, 25 Jul: After the dramatic Friday and the successful Saturday, I
was shooting landings at Brodhead. =C2-As I was taxiing the bungee on the
repaired gear broke. =C2-Fortunately, it happened as I was moving at a b
risk walk (and most of you people were already gone, thank God). =C2-Pret
ty frustrating but not tragic.
- Monday, 26 Jul: Went to Oshkosh to get repair parts and establish camp.
=C2-Good day.
- Tuesday, 27 Jul: Back to Brodhead to make field-expedient repair on gear.
=C2-Success. =C2-However, during the repair, I ran my face into the pr
opeller tip and gave myself a really good cut and bruise. =C2-I=C3=A2
=82=AC=84=A2ve hit my head on the prop before and have the scar to show
for it. =C2-I had a tantrum. =C2-Not a little tantrum, but the tantrum
of a man who has just experienced the 5 most frustrating days of his life.
=C2-Fortunately, the place was virtually deserted. =C2-Shelley let me r
un on and get it out. =C2-I was ready to burn the plane in place and driv
e home. =C2-She helped me calm down, regain reason, and encouraged me to
fly the airplane to Oshkosh as planned. =C2-She even asked when it would
be okay to laugh at me. =C2-We crossed that threshold at about 8 pm that
evening.
- Wednesday, 28 Jul: Landed on 36L at OSH and got parked between Bill Rewey
and the world=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2s most spectacular Hatz. =C2-Had a
wonderful time the rest of the day.
- Thursday, 29 Jul: Another wonderful day enjoying OSH.
- Friday, 30 Jul: took off in the morning. =C2-Almost got run over by an
RV =C3=A2=82=AC=9C my greatest fear. =C2-Stopped early due to we
ather.
- Saturday, 31 Jul through Monday, 2 August: a routine flight back home.
=C2-(One minor note: I lost my SPOT personal locator beacon off the plane
somewhere between Iowa City and Cameron, MO. =C2-Didn't do a good job wi
th the safety cord. =C2-Anyway, Shelley looked it up on the internet and
SPOT was dutifully reporting its location every ten minutes. =C2-Fortunat
ely, it told us it was laying on the approach end of runway 36 at Lamoni, I
A. =C2-I called the airport manager, he found it and he's mailing it back
to me. =C2-Great people in aviation!)
Thanks again to all of you who helped recover from the landing gear debacle
. =C2-I think I forgot to mention Gene Rambo in my last post. =C2-He he
lped a lot and I appreciate it. =C2-
Look forward to seeing you guys next year.
Axel
--------
Kevin Purtee
NX899KP
Austin/Georgetown, TX
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307321#307321
===========
===========
MS -
===========
e -
=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2--Matt Dralle, List Admin.
===========
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Boyer <boyerjrb(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Thanks, Chris, for the Paint templates |
John,
Bernard went for improvements he could make to his design; its the least yo
u can do for the paint schemes as well. I'm sure Dan will find a memo in Be
rnards "book" about future ideas on paint designs.
I still think it looks great; meaning I may copy it a little...
Jim
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Fay" <jfay1950(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 3, 2010 9:11:33 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Thanks, Chris, for the Paint templates
Jim,
The three or four that I have shown the schemes to all like #4 the best.=C2
- But I think I will need to consult with Dan Helsper, the Keeper of the
Book,
to see if a three color paint scheme is permissable.=C2- It almost seems
too flashy to be in the spirit of Bernard Pietenpol.
John Fay
in Peoria
=C2-
On Tue, Aug 3, 2010 at 10:18 AM, Jim Boyer < boyerjrb(at)comcast.net > wrote:
John,
both paint schemes look good but I like the effect the one with White has.
It seems to keep the orange and blue in better balance. Good looking though
both of them.
Jim
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Boyer <boyerjrb(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Thanks, Chris, for the Paint templates |
I will for sure Jack as I am close to being ready to cover.
Jim
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Sent: Tuesday, August 3, 2010 10:10:19 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Thanks, Chris, for the Paint templates
Just be careful.=C2- The track record is not good for people who spend mu
ch time thinking about their paint scheme before building the airplane.=C2
- I can=99t think of any that have actually finished their airplane
after developing a detailed paint scheme before fabric covering began.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-lis
t-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Fay
Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 12:12 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Thanks, Chris, for the Paint templates
Jim,
The three or four that I have shown the schemes to all like #4 the best.=C2
- But I think I will need to consult with Dan Helsper, the Keeper of the
Book,
to see if a three color paint scheme is permissable.=C2- It almost seems
too flashy to be in the spirit of Bernard Pietenpol.
John Fay
in Peoria
=C2-
On Tue, Aug 3, 2010 at 10:18 AM, Jim Boyer < boyerjrb(at)comcast.net > wrote:
John,
both paint schemes look good but I like the effect the one with White has.
It seems to keep the orange and blue in better balance. Good looking though
both of them.
===========
==
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Crash - The Epilogue. |
Dad and I plan to make Brodhead- in 2011.- He just got done building a
1950's style teardrop camper, that he built just for Brodhead trips.- Whi
ch leaves me the "chore" of flying the piet.- On a side note I just had a
guy stop by who is 68, and thinking about building a piet.- A real newco
mer, not a pilot, but has woodworking experiance.- He had seen photos onl
ine, and we were only 20 miles away so he came to check it out, and see if
he thought he could tackle it.- I told him just take it 1 step at a time
and do something on it every day and you'll get her done.
-
Shad Bell- "Unsafe at any speed"=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Kevin's dream comes true with a few bumps |
It was such a pleasure to see a guy and his wife ALL the way from Texas be there
at
Brodhead with a plane they both built. (I believe his wife helped quite a bit before
she
married for better or for worse:)
Your frustrations with all of the issues you faced Kevin are totally understandable
but
you stuck with it, you got some help from some incredibly knowledgeable, generous,
and
kind individuals and sometimes giving gives way more satisfaction than getting----least
in my book.
I'm so glad you pressed on to Oshkosh to be able to say 'yes, I flew this into
Oshkosh
in 2010 then back home." I'm glad that much grace was upon you and for your wife's
sake
with the issues you had up there and that you're one of the many, many, many people
who
will always make me look forward to coming back to Brodhead. Nice going man.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Crash - The Epilogue. Yet Another Long Post |
| From: | Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
Was great meeting you at Brodhead Kevin and glad you made it all the way
back to TX. After that adventure I have no excuse to not fly to Brodhead
from Colorado after I finish mine (doubt that I will be able to talk the
wife into coming though).
rick
On Tue, Aug 3, 2010 at 10:17 AM, kevinpurtee wrot
e:
> kevin.purtee(at)us.army.mil>
>
> Bottom Line Up Front: made it from Brodhead to Oshkosh and then back to
> Austin safe and sound. Got home Monday, 2 August. Had a blast, even wit
h
> all the drama. We=92re already planning next year=92s trip.
>
> Details:
> - Sunday, 25 Jul: After the dramatic Friday and the successful Saturday,
I
> was shooting landings at Brodhead. As I was taxiing the bungee on the
> repaired gear broke. Fortunately, it happened as I was moving at a brisk
> walk (and most of you people were already gone, thank God). Pretty
> frustrating but not tragic.
> - Monday, 26 Jul: Went to Oshkosh to get repair parts and establish camp.
> Good day.
> - Tuesday, 27 Jul: Back to Brodhead to make field-expedient repair on gea
r.
> Success. However, during the repair, I ran my face into the propeller t
ip
> and gave myself a really good cut and bruise. I=92ve hit my head on the
prop
> before and have the scar to show for it. I had a tantrum. Not a little
> tantrum, but the tantrum of a man who has just experienced the 5 most
> frustrating days of his life. Fortunately, the place was virtually
> deserted. Shelley let me run on and get it out. I was ready to burn the
> plane in place and drive home. She helped me calm down, regain reason, a
nd
> encouraged me to fly the airplane to Oshkosh as planned. She even asked
> when it would be okay to laugh at me. We crossed that threshold at about
8
> pm that evening.
> - Wednesday, 28 Jul: Landed on 36L at OSH and got parked between Bill Rew
ey
> and the world=92s most spectacular Hatz. Had a wonderful time the rest o
f the
> day.
> - Thursday, 29 Jul: Another wonderful day enjoying OSH.
> - Friday, 30 Jul: took off in the morning. Almost got run over by an RV
'
> my greatest fear. Stopped early due to weather.
> - Saturday, 31 Jul through Monday, 2 August: a routine flight back home.
> (One minor note: I lost my SPOT personal locator beacon off the plane
> somewhere between Iowa City and Cameron, MO. Didn't do a good job with t
he
> safety cord. Anyway, Shelley looked it up on the internet and SPOT was
> dutifully reporting its location every ten minutes. Fortunately, it told
us
> it was laying on the approach end of runway 36 at Lamoni, IA. I called t
he
> airport manager, he found it and he's mailing it back to me. Great peopl
e
> in aviation!)
>
> Thanks again to all of you who helped recover from the landing gear
> debacle. I think I forgot to mention Gene Rambo in my last post. He hel
ped
> a lot and I appreciate it.
>
> Look forward to seeing you guys next year.
>
> Axel
>
> --------
> Kevin Purtee
> NX899KP
> Austin/Georgetown, TX
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307321#307321
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | airlion <airlion(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Crash - The Epilogue. Yet Another Long Post |
Rick, I am sorry that I didn't get to talk to you. I would like to touch ba
se if =0AI get to COS to see my kids soon.=0A=0Acheers, Gardiner=0A=0A=0A__
______________________________=0AFrom: Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>=0A
ubject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Crash - The Epilogue. Yet Another Long Post=0A
=0AWas great meeting you at Brodhead Kevin and glad you made it all the way
back to =0ATX. After that adventure I have no excuse to not fly to Brodhea
d from Colorado =0Aafter I finish mine (doubt that I will be able to talk t
he wife into coming =0Athough).=0A=0Arick=0A=0A=0AOn Tue, Aug 3, 2010 at 10
:17 AM, kevinpurtee wrote:=0A=0A--> Pietenpol-Li
st message posted by: "kevinpurtee" =0A>=0A>Botto
m Line Up Front: made it from Brodhead to Oshkosh and then back to Austin
=0A>safe and sound. Got home Monday, 2 August. Had a blast, even with all
the =0A>drama. We=99re already planning next year=99s trip.
=0A>=0A>Details:=0A>- Sunday, 25 Jul: After the dramatic Friday and the suc
cessful Saturday, I was =0A>shooting landings at Brodhead. As I was taxiin
g the bungee on the repaired gear =0A>broke. Fortunately, it happened as I
was moving at a brisk walk (and most of =0A>you people were already gone,
thank God). Pretty frustrating but not tragic.=0A>- Monday, 26 Jul: Went t
o Oshkosh to get repair parts and establish camp. Good =0A>day.=0A>- Tuesd
ay, 27 Jul: Back to Brodhead to make field-expedient repair on gear. =0A> S
uccess. However, during the repair, I ran my face into the propeller tip a
nd =0A>gave myself a really good cut and bruise. I=99ve hit my head
on the prop before =0A>and have the scar to show for it. I had a tantrum.
Not a little tantrum, but =0A>the tantrum of a man who has just experience
d the 5 most frustrating days of his =0A>life. Fortunately, the place was
virtually deserted. Shelley let me run on and =0A>get it out. I was ready
to burn the plane in place and drive home. She helped =0A>me calm down, r
egain reason, and encouraged me to fly the airplane to Oshkosh as =0A>plann
ed. She even asked when it would be okay to laugh at me. We crossed that
=0A>threshold at about 8 pm that evening.=0A>- Wednesday, 28 Jul: Landed on
36L at OSH and got parked between Bill Rewey and =0A>the world=99s m
ost spectacular Hatz. Had a wonderful time the rest of the day.=0A>- Thurs
day, 29 Jul: Another wonderful day enjoying OSH.=0A>- Friday, 30 Jul: took
off in the morning. Almost got run over by an RV =93 my =0A>greatest
fear. Stopped early due to weather.=0A>- Saturday, 31 Jul through Monday,
2 August: a routine flight back home. (One =0A>minor note: I lost my SPOT
personal locator beacon off the plane somewhere =0A>between Iowa City and
Cameron, MO. Didn't do a good job with the safety cord. =0A> Anyway, Shell
ey looked it up on the internet and SPOT was dutifully reporting =0A>its lo
cation every ten minutes. Fortunately, it told us it was laying on the =0A
>approach end of runway 36 at Lamoni, IA. I called the airport manager, he
found =0A>it and he's mailing it back to me. Great people in aviation!)
=0A>=0A>Thanks again to all of you who helped recover from the landing gear
debacle. I =0A>think I forgot to mention Gene Rambo in my last post. He
helped a lot and I =0A>appreciate it.=0A>=0A>Look forward to seeing you guy
s next year.=0A>=0A>Axel=0A>=0A>=0A>--------=0A>Kevin Purtee=0A>NX899KP=0A>
Austin/Georgetown, TX=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>Read this topic online here:=0A>
=0A>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307321#307321=0A>=0A>=0A>
=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>============0A>st" target="
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List=0A>====
========0A>http://forums.matronics.com=0A>======
======0A>le, List Admin.=0A>="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/
contribution=0A>============0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A=0A=0A-
- =0ARick Holland=0ACastle Rock, Colorado=0A=0A"Logic is a wreath of pretty
=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Crash - The Epilogue. Yet Another Long Post |
| From: | "Dan P" <dlplett(at)swko.net> |
Kevin, I introduced myself to you in Oshkosh. It wasn't until I got home that
I put 'two and two' together. What an adventure to say the least.
--------
Dan Plett
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307377#307377
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Thanks, Chris, for the Paint templates |
| From: | John Fay <jfay1950(at)gmail.com> |
To Jack Phillips,
Your warning: "I can=92t think of any that have actually finished their
airplane after developing a detailed paint scheme before fabric covering
began,"
is well taken. I'll get back to real work. I'm going back out to the
garage to begin the process of assembling the fuselage, even though it's to
o
warm to be out there today.
John Fay
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Brodhead flybys |
| From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
Oh wow! Ok, I see how that might demand some attention.
Perhaps I would have known that if I would have attended one of the lessons.
pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net wrote:
> No - it really was taught by several men, a couple of which only had one arm
> each. Sort of drives the point home - to the point that she has never
> propped an airplane, even though she has taken the training.
>
> Jack Phillips
> NX899JP
> Raleigh, NC
>
> --
--------
Mark Chouinard
Finishing up Wings - Working on Center Section
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307380#307380
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Crash - The Epilogue. Yet Another Long Post |
| From: | Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
No problem Gardiner, let me know anytime you come to Colorado. We can pull
my now covered fuselage out and crank up my Corvair.
rick
On Tue, Aug 3, 2010 at 2:06 PM, airlion wrote:
> Rick, I am sorry that I didn't get to talk to you. I would like to touch
> base if I get to COS to see my kids soon.
> cheers, Gardiner
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Rick Holland
> *To:* pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> *Sent:* Tue, August 3, 2010 3:55:56 PM
> *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: Crash - The Epilogue. Yet Another Long Pos
t
>
> Was great meeting you at Brodhead Kevin and glad you made it all the way
> back to TX. After that adventure I have no excuse to not fly to Brodhead
> from Colorado after I finish mine (doubt that I will be able to talk the
> wife into coming though).
>
> rick
>
> On Tue, Aug 3, 2010 at 10:17 AM, kevinpurtee wr
ote:
>
>> kevin.purtee(at)us.army.mil>
>>
>> Bottom Line Up Front: made it from Brodhead to Oshkosh and then back to
>> Austin safe and sound. Got home Monday, 2 August. Had a blast, even wi
th
>> all the drama. We=92re already planning next year=92s trip.
>>
>> Details:
>> - Sunday, 25 Jul: After the dramatic Friday and the successful Saturday,
I
>> was shooting landings at Brodhead. As I was taxiing the bungee on the
>> repaired gear broke. Fortunately, it happened as I was moving at a bris
k
>> walk (and most of you people were already gone, thank God). Pretty
>> frustrating but not tragic.
>> - Monday, 26 Jul: Went to Oshkosh to get repair parts and establish camp
.
>> Good day.
>> - Tuesday, 27 Jul: Back to Brodhead to make field-expedient repair on
>> gear. Success. However, during the repair, I ran my face into the
>> propeller tip and gave myself a really good cut and bruise. I=92ve hit
my
>> head on the prop before and have the scar to show for it. I had a tantr
um.
>> Not a little tantrum, but the tantrum of a man who has just experienced
the
>> 5 most frustrating days of his life. Fortunately, the place was virtual
ly
>> deserted. Shelley let me run on and get it out. I was ready to burn th
e
>> plane in place and drive home. She helped me calm down, regain reason,
and
>> encouraged me to fly the airplane to Oshkosh as planned. She even asked
>> when it would be okay to laugh at me. We crossed that threshold at abou
t 8
>> pm that evening.
>> - Wednesday, 28 Jul: Landed on 36L at OSH and got parked between Bill
>> Rewey and the world=92s most spectacular Hatz. Had a wonderful time the
rest
>> of the day.
>> - Thursday, 29 Jul: Another wonderful day enjoying OSH.
>> - Friday, 30 Jul: took off in the morning. Almost got run over by an RV
'
>> my greatest fear. Stopped early due to weather.
>> - Saturday, 31 Jul through Monday, 2 August: a routine flight back home.
>> (One minor note: I lost my SPOT personal locator beacon off the plane
>> somewhere between Iowa City and Cameron, MO. Didn't do a good job with
the
>> safety cord. Anyway, Shelley looked it up on the internet and SPOT was
>> dutifully reporting its location every ten minutes. Fortunately, it tol
d us
>> it was laying on the approach end of runway 36 at Lamoni, IA. I called
the
>> airport manager, he found it and he's mailing it back to me. Great peop
le
>> in aviation!)
>>
>> Thanks again to all of you who helped recover from the landing gear
>> debacle. I think I forgot to mention Gene Rambo in my last post. He he
lped
>> a lot and I appreciate it.
>>
>> Look forward to seeing you guys next year.
>>
>> Axel
>>
>> --------
>> Kevin Purtee
>> NX899KP
>> Austin/Georgetown, TX
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307321#307321
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ==========
>> st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>> ==========
>> http://forums.matronics.com
>> ==========
>> le, List Admin.
>> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> ==========
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Rick Holland
> Castle Rock, Colorado
>
> "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
>
> http://www.matronicfollow" target="_blank" href="http://forums.matron
ics.com">http://forum=========
>
>
> *
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
> *
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Landing gear in the plans |
| From: | "j_dunavin" <j_dunavin(at)hotmail.com> |
Dan,
My first name is Joe and I work at Pride aircraft here in Rockford IL.
I know Buck, and I am supposed to go over and check out his RV-8... maybe I could
see your aircraft as well.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307388#307388
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Crash - The Epilogue. Yet Another Long Post |
| From: | "Pieti Lowell" <Lowellcfrank(at)yahoo.com> |
Kevin,
I do not think for a minute that you consider your experience as 5 frustrating
days, just look at the education you found in a few moments of a landing. that
your training and judgment has shown to all , including yourself. ( I speak from
experience ).
Pieti Lowell
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307397#307397
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Crash - The Epilogue. Yet Another Long Post |
| From: | "gtche98" <garywilson213(at)yahoo.com> |
Kevin - Please thank Shelly for me for calming you down and convincing you to continue
on to Oshkosh. My wife Tracie and I thoroughly enjoyed talking with you
all on Thursday. Your plane is a true beauty. I love the simple yet rich
paint scheme. One of my favorite Piets so far... And at the time I had absolutely
NO idea about your trials in Brodhead, although I did wonder why you only
had one bungie cover on your gear.
Shelly made a huge impression on Tracie with the wonderful leather work that she
did. I haven't even started building and Tracie is itching to get on Ebay and
look for tanned hides. :)
Thank you very much for sharing your airplane and your stories with us. I agree
with Jack - You are a great ambassador for the Piet.
Gary Wilson
EAA Chapter 252 - Oshkosh
Currently dreaming about building
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307398#307398
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Thanks, Chris, for the Paint templates |
My apologies, John. I had no idea you were so far along with your project.
I just remember some builders like the guy from Alaska a few years ago who
had not made one rib but had all kinds of graphics of his proposed paint
scheme. He faded from view pretty quickly, and there were several others
just like him.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Fay
Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 4:31 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Thanks, Chris, for the Paint templates
To Jack Phillips,
Your warning: "I can't think of any that have actually finished their
airplane after developing a detailed paint scheme before fabric covering
began,"
is well taken. I'll get back to real work. I'm going back out to the
garage to begin the process of assembling the fuselage, even though it's too
warm to be out there today.
John Fay
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Another Very Nice Piet Underway |
| From: | "dgaldrich" <dgaldrich(at)embarqmail.com> |
And wasn't there a report a couple of days ago about a trailer disappearing...
Coincidence????
Dave Aldrich (who's never met Jim Markle but anted up for Markle Mania anyway because
he looks like my uncle Fred and because he probably knew my ex-father-in-law
Cal Bass.)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307400#307400
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Another Very Nice Piet Underway |
You have just made a much more hilarious comment than you might have imagined...
Just this last weekend I pulled a trailer (with yet another old beat up trailer
on top of THAT trailer) to Dallas to take some stuff to my brother's new place
(and clean some junk out of my yard) more the latter actually...
So....someone IS missing a trailer but it's my father in law....tomorrow I'll take
the big one back to my farm but it's just funny that you made THIS comment
right after I did haul 2 trailers to Dallas.....
Some of that junk was in the way of my Piet wings (get off my back Mark)....ahhhhh,
progress!
jm
-----Original Message-----
>From: dgaldrich <dgaldrich(at)embarqmail.com>
>Sent: Aug 3, 2010 8:09 PM
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Another Very Nice Piet Underway
>
>
>And wasn't there a report a couple of days ago about a trailer disappearing...
Coincidence????
>
>Dave Aldrich (who's never met Jim Markle but anted up for Markle Mania anyway
because he looks like my uncle Fred and because he probably knew my ex-father-in-law
Cal Bass.)
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307400#307400
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Brodhead 2011 Group Cross-Country? |
Ben,
I keep saying I'm going to do it. Maybe in 2011? I'm based just east
of Atlanta, out of 2GA9.
Jeff
>...
>I'm located in central Florida, which is about 1300 miles from
>Brodhead. I've never taken a cross-country longer than one trip to
>the Bahamas, and that was non-stop in a spam can. I'd love to fly
>up next year if I can get the time off. Anybody else thinking about
>going, that would be along the way? Flying with a group would boost
>my confidence a lot.
>
>Ben Charvet
>Mims, Fl
--
Jeff Boatright
"Now let's think about this..."
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Thanks, Chris, for the Paint templates- the "lost" |
Bernerd Pietenpol papers
| From: | helspersew(at)aol.com |
John,
I take my responsibility of "keeper and custodian" of the "lost" Bernerd
Pietenpol papers very seriously. Therefore I cannot give an answer to you
r question right now, because they cannot be removed from the pickle jar
storage container (one of those jumbo-sized jars, like you see at Costco
or Sam's club) but once per year, due to deterioration concerns. The jar
must be re-charged with xenon (or is it Argon) gas every time they are re
-stored for another year. I opened it back in May I believe, to answer a
pressing question on the orientation of one of the bottom fuselage spruce
cross pieces, so can you hold your question till May 2011? Please remind
me when the time comes....also if anyone else on this list has any other
pressing concerns regarding any other "authorized" changes from plans, pl
ease feel free to submit those also- (in writing please).
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
-----Original Message-----
From: John Fay <jfay1950(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Tue, Aug 3, 2010 11:11 am
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Thanks, Chris, for the Paint templates
Jim,
The three or four that I have shown the schemes to all like #4 the best.
But I think I will need to consult with Dan Helsper, the Keeper of the
Book,
to see if a three color paint scheme is permissable. It almost seems too
flashy to be in the spirit of Bernard Pietenpol.
John Fay
in Peoria
On Tue, Aug 3, 2010 at 10:18 AM, Jim Boyer wrote:
John,
both paint schemes look good but I like the effect the one with White has.
It seems to keep the orange and blue in better balance. Good looking thou
gh both of them.
Jim
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | First visit to a Pietenpoler |
| From: | "Piet2112" <curtdm(at)gmail.com> |
Today I got finally see in person what I am attempting to build. I went and saw
Alex Whitmore's 1975 Model A Air Camper NX12969. What a treat it was to actually
sit in one and pick the brain of someone who has owned, fixed and flown
several different configurations.
It has been about 15 years since I've been involved in the GA community and now
I know what I've been missing. There is more to life than the internet. Thanks
Alex for letting me explore your plane.
Curtis Merdan
Flower Mound, TX
Tail Feathers being fluffed
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307423#307423
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: engine run-on |
| From: | "ldmill" <lorin.miller(at)emerson.com> |
Hi Oscar,
I finally had time after getting back from Brodhead and Oshkosh to dig into this.
Yup - your guru was right - my P-lead nut came off. The wire connector was
was still on the terminal, but was bouncing around on it not making good constant
contact. Used a 1/2 height nyloc nut and star washer - and instant gratification.
Thanks!
Lorin
--------
Lorin Miller
Waiex N81YX
GN-1 N30PP
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307424#307424
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: landing gears |
| From: | "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com> |
It's kind of funny, although I really like the gear set-up I have I think if I
were to build another I'd build the wood gear. I like the simplicity and the
no toe in or toe out problems. The first 50 or so hours I spent flying mine I
had a slight toe-in problem. It was enough to make pavement landings pretty
exciting. I heated up the bottoms of the "V"s and straightened them out. Pavement
landings are much more manageable now. As far as the strength of the split
gear, I've tested mine out about as much as I think I should, and found it
to be plenty strong! I think from now on I'm going to lay off the testing.
Of course that ground loop a few years back and the hard landings are part of
what we are supposed to do in order to test these ships, right?
After getting the chance to fly Allen Rudolph's plane, I'd really like to get a
set of 8:50 x 6 tires. I like the look, and really liked the handling. Just
might have to try a skid on mine too. It'd be fun to be able to switch the two
types of tires whenever the mood strikes.
Second thought, if I were to build another, I think I'd build a replica of the
Allen Rudolph piet. Only problem is you could never build in all that character.
Don Emch
NX899DE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307426#307426
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Brodhead flybys |
| From: | "BYD" <billsayre(at)ymail.com> |
Just some thoughts
John wrote:
> "it appeared to me that downwind to short final was more an arc rather than the
squared off pattern we were and still are required to fly, unless given a straight
in approach".
In a Biplane, I was taught to fly an arc to landing for visibility reasons. Ill
grant you the Air Camper may not be quite as restricted but unless Im mistaken
at an uncontrolled airfield there is no one to give a straight in approach
(clearance?). To nit-pick, there isnt an FAR requiring a squared off pattern
either its suggested in the AIM (and a good idea IMO) but it is not required.
Gene wrote:
> "I propose that we encourage our group to allow only known individuals to prop
their aircraft, and possibly add a forum on hand propping to the Saturday lineup,
out in front of the aircraft with differing engines/setups as demonstrations".
Group or no group, I cant imagine asking just some person to prop my plane. Not
only am I clueless whether this bozo knows how to prop a plane, but how is he
going to communicate if he wants the ignition on or off. Theres more going
on than meets the eye (especially to a non-aviators eye).
I like the idea of a forum on hand propping. It doesnt have to be fancy or formal,
but even just sharing amongst ourselves about chocking or tying and techniques
we use and letting anyone listen in is great. I had never hand-propped
a Model-A and since Im building one I wanted to experience it, so I approached
Larry Williams and explained my reasoning and he was kind enough to allow me
to prop his Piet. Afterwards I felt silly for asking because it was straightforward
but in truth Im glad I did.
Id hate to see our group fill up with rules and regulations, but I understand the
desire for safety. I just start to wonder who will enforce the rules and what
will the penalties be if I round off my base to final leg without being given
a straight in approach.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307431#307431
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: landing gears |
| From: | "j_dunavin" <j_dunavin(at)hotmail.com> |
I can see how both would be nice.
Iv'e also seen both and I do like the wooden gear better, but I am all about simplicity..and
weight saving. Does anyone have a good number there? How much weight
difference? 25 or more lbs?
I assume that we could go wire wheels with either setup?
Which I guess is another question for another post.... which wheel setup and why?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307432#307432
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Another Very Nice Piet Underway |
| From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
I didn't even say anything!
But now that you mention it... you do need to clean up that shit hole, am I right
John? Haaa ha!
Hey, go ahead and throw away those pizza boxes from our last visit and see if you
can find an airplane out there.
--------
Mark Chouinard
Finishing up Wings - Working on Center Section
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307434#307434
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Brodhead 2011, Ohio Piet Fly-in |
Well Guys, Count me in for 2011.- I hope to be able to go (wife and famil
y permitting).- Don, Frank, Mike, Skipp, Ed-and any other Ohio/ Midwest
area guys, if we could arange it, we could meet up in Indiana or elsewhere
for a group arrival.- Also I will be bidding my vacation for 2011 in nov
ember, so I will be planning some dates in June for the 2nd Ohio Piet fly-i
n.- Fathers Day weekend was the date this year, next might be the same.
- Let me know if you fellas have any ideas for the fly-in.
-
Shad- "Unsafe at any speed" Bell
-
P.S.- Don E., I have some photos from last years return from OSH, with us
crowded around the fuel pumps at JOT, I will try to send them to you soon.
.........You-remember the DOWN WIND landing.- ha ha ha=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matthew VanDervort <matthew.vandervort(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Brodhead 2011, Ohio Piet Fly-in |
Don't forgert me either!! I am really hoping to have Gpa's piet there , if n
ot I will definitely have the Taylorcraft headed up that way!!!
Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 4, 2010, at 1:27 AM, shad bell wrote:
> Well Guys, Count me in for 2011. I hope to be able to go (wife and family
permitting). Don, Frank, Mike, Skipp, Ed and any other Ohio/ Midwest area g
uys, if we could arange it, we could meet up in Indiana or elsewhere for a g
roup arrival. Also I will be bidding my vacation for 2011 in november, so I
will be planning some dates in June for the 2nd Ohio Piet fly-in. Fathers D
ay weekend was the date this year, next might be the same. Let me know if y
ou fellas have any ideas for the fly-in.
>
> Shad "Unsafe at any speed" Bell
>
> P.S. Don E., I have some photos from last years return from OSH, with us c
rowded around the fuel pumps at JOT, I will try to send them to you soon....
......You remember the DOWN WIND landing. ha ha ha
>
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: landing gears- which wheels? |
| From: | helspersew(at)aol.com |
Hi Joe,
I vote for wire wheels. The wire wheels are heavier but look cooler, and
they are more of a chick magnet. They are harder to build because you hav
e to actually build the hubs, and then string the spokes (or have somebody
do it). When you are all done you will have something that is actually a
little unique and not the same-o same-o. Then you can cover them with fab
ric to pick up maybe 10 or 15 knts. :O)
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
-----Original Message-----
From: j_dunavin <j_dunavin(at)hotmail.com>
Sent: Tue, Aug 3, 2010 11:00 pm
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: landing gears
I can see how both would be nice.
v'e also seen both and I do like the wooden gear better, but I am all abou
t
implicity..and weight saving. Does anyone have a good number there? How mu
ch
eight difference? 25 or more lbs?
assume that we could go wire wheels with either setup?
hich I guess is another question for another post.... which wheel setup an
d
hy?
ead this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307432#307432
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Cardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: landing gears |
Joe,
I don't know the weight of the steel gear but the Jenny style landing gear
on NX18235 weighs 60 lbs. That weight includes wheels, axle and spreader
bars, wooden struts, bungees and bracing cables. It does not include brakes
as they are not installed.
Dan Helspers comments about the wooden gear looking cooler is right
on.......
Greg Cardinal
----- Original Message -----
From: "j_dunavin" <j_dunavin(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: landing gears
> I can see how both would be nice.
> Iv'e also seen both and I do like the wooden gear better, but I am all
> about simplicity..and weight saving. Does anyone have a good number there?
> How much weight difference? 25 or more lbs?
> I assume that we could go wire wheels with either setup?
> Which I guess is another question for another post.... which wheel setup
> and why?
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | AMsafetyC(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Brodhead flybys |
Bill true enough, it may not be in the FAR however during training at an
uncontrolled field and towered the pattern discipline was highly stressed
and
a requirement when in the pattern you need to be doing it by the numbers
everytime. Having never been in or flown a biplane or a Piet my informatio
n
is greatly limited to the Cessna and Piper aircraft that being the case I
am in all probability not alone in that primary training strived to inst
ill
precision flying and predictable pattern operations. Hard to shake old
training habits. I suppose I have always subscribed to the idea that integ
rity
means doing the right thing when no one is watching, that goes for pattern
work also.
I agree with not wanting to fill the air with regulations and rules,
Brodhead is a special place and we already have a bunch of rules already,
especially since the first charge of PIC is "safety of flight", that bein
g the
case, we as the pilot community need to keep that fresh and in mind at al
l
times.
Don't need no stinkin rules all we really need are responsible pilots
following the rules we already know but may not completely remember. I don
t
remember them all, all the time and have to rely on the book to get them
refreshed at my age and in my mind a reminder is always good as a proactiv
e
measure rather than the accident investigation in the reactive case. Yes
I know
its the Safety Director in me coming out, its just a bunch easier to start
safe and end safe.
Safe in the morning, safe all day long!
The sermon is ended thanks be to patience, understanding and practicality
.
John
In a message dated 8/3/2010 11:30:52 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
billsayre(at)ymail.com writes:
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "BYD"
Just some thoughts=C3=A2=82=AC=C2
John wrote:
> "it appeared to me that downwind to short final was more an arc rather
than the squared off pattern we were and still are required to fly, unles
s
given a straight in approach".
In a Biplane, I was taught to fly an arc to landing for visibility
reasons. I=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2ll grant you the Air Camper may not be
quite as restricted but
unless I=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2m mistaken at an uncontrolled airfield th
ere is no one to =C3=A2=82=AC=C5=93give=C3=A2=82=AC
=C2=9D a straight in approach (clearance?). To nit-pick, there isn=C3=A2
=82=AC=84=A2t an FAR
=C3=A2=82=AC=C5=93requiring=C3=A2=82=AC=C2=9D a =C3=A2=82=AC=C5
=93squared off pattern=C3=A2=82=AC=C2=9D either =C3=A2=82=AC
=9C it=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2s
suggested in the AIM (and a good idea IMO) but it is not required.
Gene wrote:
> "I propose that we encourage our group to allow only known individuals
to prop their aircraft, and possibly add a forum on hand propping to the
Saturday lineup, out in front of the aircraft with differing engines/setu
ps as
demonstrations".
Group or no group, I can=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2t imagine asking just som
e person to prop my
plane. Not only am I clueless whether this bozo knows how to prop a plan
e,
but how is he going to communicate if he wants the ignition on or off.
There=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2s more going on than meets the eye (especial
ly to a non-aviators eye).
I like the idea of a forum on hand propping. It doesn=C3=A2=82=AC
=84=A2t have to be
fancy or formal, but even just sharing amongst ourselves about chocking
or
tying and techniques we use and letting anyone listen in is great. I had
never hand-propped a Model-A and since I=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2m buildin
g one I wanted to
experience it, so I approached Larry Williams and explained my reasoning
and he was
kind enough to allow me to prop his Piet. Afterwards I felt silly for
asking because it was straightforward but in truth I=C3=A2=82=AC=84
=A2m glad I did.
I=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2d hate to see our group fill up with rules and
regulations, but I
understand the desire for safety. I just start to wonder who will enforc
e the
rules and what will the penalties be if I round off my base to final leg
without being given a straight in approach.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307431#307431
========================
===========
========================
===========
========================
===========
========================
===========
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "TOM STINEMETZE" <TOMS(at)mcpcity.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Crash - The Epilogue. Yet Another Long Post |
>I understand that collections are being taken to raise money to be able
to dig a pond at Brodhead in case of future events like this.
>Jack Phillips
>NX899JP
>Raleigh, NC
Jack:
Good idea! The Kevin "Axel" Purtee memorial alternate landing site and
fishin'hole. (No skinny dippin' allowed!)
I don't know about makin' this an "event" though. Unless, of course, we
provided sufficient loaner milk jugs or ping pong balls to float the Piet
after landing. We should restrict this event to Ford powered birds
however since they are already used to having water all over them most of
the time.
Tom Stinemetze
N328X (which may actually be up on gear by this weekend)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KM Heide CPO/FAAOP <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com> |
Shad and others on the list:
-
Last night I received from reading your email a anti-spam virus from the UK
and it appears to be traveling through the pietenpol list serve. I tracked
it down to a site in Europe.-This virus-locks out the exe.list files a
nd will not allow access to any part or-program-of your computer. The b
astard about this....I never open the file it just automatically attached i
tself and shut my system down! It even circumvented my own anti-spy-ware!
-
Please (everyone) run your software checks for viruses often and at least d
aily before you shut down.
-
Ken Heide
Hawley, MN
-
--- On Tue, 8/3/10, shad bell wrote:
From: shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Crash - The Epilogue.
Date: Tuesday, August 3, 2010, 2:35 PM
Dad and I plan to make Brodhead- in 2011.- He just got done building a
1950's style teardrop camper, that he built just for Brodhead trips.- Whi
ch leaves me the "chore" of flying the piet.- On a side note I just had a
guy stop by who is 68, and thinking about building a piet.- A real newco
mer, not a pilot, but has woodworking experiance.- He had seen photos onl
ine, and we were only 20 miles away so he came to check it out, and see if
he thought he could tackle it.- I told him just take it 1 step at a time
and do something on it every day and you'll get her done.
-
Shad Bell- "Unsafe at any speed"
=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Brodhead flybys |
| From: | "Phil" <hopkinsp2(at)gmail.com> |
I rarely chime in, although I read every message on the list. But I'd like to
add something to this conversation, although, never having even been to Brodhead
(yet!), perhaps I shouldn't. Still, in the interest of discussing important
issues of safety, I agree completely with that priority. No good reason to
take unnecessary risks. Lots of fun to be had without doing so.
And it is in the interest of safety that I have to disagree with John. I'm sure
we all had precision flying stressed during training. And rightly so. Aim
for a particular spot, not a general area; plant her right down the centerline,
etc. And, yes, we're taught ground reference maneuvers, and are expected to
be able to fly them with precision and regularity, and that happens so we can
apply those skills while flying practical maneuvers, like landings. But the
safest pattern doesn't prioritize geometry, I don't think. If everyone is flying
the pattern with appropriate spacing, then an arc on final presents no particular
safety hazard I can think of. And if necessary to complete the pattern
efficiently, an arc can be the safest route to take, and can actually make things
better for those behind in the pattern by clearing faster.
The pattern is very important, particularly on uncontrolled fields. Crossing mid-field
or entering on the 45 downwind, pilots should always enter the appropriate
pattern for the field at predictable spots, so other traffic knows where
to look.
But I question the idea that there's something particularly safe or even always
appropriate about a rectangular pattern on base to final. Every landing is unique.
Each landing presents different winds and conditions. Turning base is
a critical decision and it won't be made in the same spot every time. But turning
base to final is, both in location and pattern, dictated by the conditions
found once on base, I think. There are many occasions when an "arc" pattern
from base to final is the safest and best route. I try to fly base/final at
idle every time. A power approach is easier, but sets one up for missing the
field entirely if the engine quits. If I am low, or the winds are pushing me
slower over the ground than expected at that moment, or if I judged turn to base
poorly, then the only options are to add power in order to square the pattern,
or shorten the pattern by rounding off the turn from base to final.
I've seen this strategy emphasized by many instructors, by training videos, by
the AOPA. The safest pattern for base and final is the pattern that gets you
to the numbers most efficiently. Everyone at the fields I fly at, both controlled
and uncontrolled, expects just that on the final approach.
That's how it seems to me.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307472#307472
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "TriScout" <apfelcyber(at)yahoo.com> |
Caught a good deal on a GN-1, so I bought it and UHauled her home to Dallas. In
the market for a used (safe) C85/A65. Any Intel on a one, feel free to lemme
know. Prefer to find one w/in a day's drive/nearby. Was starting to build Piet
ribs, but who knows..maybe I can make Brodhead earlier than I thought.. (will
attempt a photo)
Larry
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307475#307475
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dscf3741_105.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Yocum <yocum(at)fnal.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: Brodhead flybys |
On the east end of the field there are some tall trees that block the
view of aircraft on the base leg. However, if you place yourself
correctly, you can see aircraft coming in on a "standard" final leg.
On one particular departure, I almost got a pretty baby-blue T-craft up
my keister because he was doing a very close in, arcing base leg. His
left wing was down... I'm not sure he ever saw me. Luckily, I saw him
through a gap in the trees before I entered the active.
One very good reason to perform squared off patterns in a high wing
aircraft is to get the wing out of the line of sight of the runway so
you can see what's happening on the ground.
Dan
--
Dan Yocum
Fermilab 630.840.6509
yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Boyer <boyerjrb(at)comcast.net> |
Larry, it looks like a nice clean airplane. Good luck getting it flying, ho
pe to see you at Brodhead next year.
Jim b.
----- Original Message -----
From: "TriScout" <apfelcyber(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 4, 2010 7:52:32 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: GN-1
Caught a good deal on a GN-1, so I bought it and UHauled her home to Dallas
. In the market for a used (safe) C85/A65. Any Intel on a one, feel free to
lemme know. Prefer to find one w/in a day's drive/nearby. Was starting to
build Piet ribs, but who knows..maybe I can make Brodhead earlier than I th
ought.. (will attempt a photo)
Larry
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307475#307475
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dscf3741_105.jpg
===========
===========
MS -
===========
e -
=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2--Matt Dralle, List Admin.
===========
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Brodhead flybys |
| From: | "John Recine" <amsafetyc(at)aol.com> |
Sounds like what I saw from the ground Dan! Interestingly enough it was not enough
to change his approach in subsequent landings. I have no idea who it was nor
am I in a position to admonish anyone it just appeared careless and not well
thought out as far as consideration for other aircraft in the pattern
John
------Original Message------
From: Dan Yocum
Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
ReplyTo: Pietenpol builders Board
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Brodhead flybys
Sent: Aug 4, 2010 11:12 AM
On the east end of the field there are some tall trees that block the
view of aircraft on the base leg. However, if you place yourself
correctly, you can see aircraft coming in on a "standard" final leg.
On one particular departure, I almost got a pretty baby-blue T-craft up
my keister because he was doing a very close in, arcing base leg. His
left wing was down... I'm not sure he ever saw me. Luckily, I saw him
through a gap in the trees before I entered the active.
One very good reason to perform squared off patterns in a high wing
aircraft is to get the wing out of the line of sight of the runway so
you can see what's happening on the ground.
Dan
--
Dan Yocum
Fermilab 630.840.6509
yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Brodhead flybys |
| From: | "BYD" <billsayre(at)ymail.com> |
Having stated that I was taught to fly an arc to landing in a biplane, let me also
say that in a high-wing especially, I prefer a square turn from base to final
so I can get one last check that someone isnt racing in on a straight-in.
I totally agree with having an understanding between pilots on how to approach
and fly the pattern and the suggestions here are good (as are the AIM) just
short of creating rules. Also, unlike closing the extra runways, there isnt
a way to communicate the agreed procedures to a new arrival until after theyre
on the ground.
Youre totally right John that we should all utilize the commonly accepted procedures
we are all taught somehow I got the feeling we might be headed towards
vigilantism and I was concerned that a C-150 pilot might criticize a Hatz or Pitts
pilot for flying a little different (or visa-versa).
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307483#307483
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Brodhead flybys |
That's the same Taylorcraft that never seemed to get above 300' as it flew
over the grounds. I also had him cut me off when I was on final to land on
27 - he just cut right in front and never saw me.
I'm fine with publishing a few safety rules about flying the pattern at
Brodhead. I'll admit, the flying seemed a bit more haphazard this year than
it has in the past. I even saw a few planes land on runway 21, which was
closed with big yellow X's on each end (apart from Kevin who had a
legitimate reason to land straight into the wind).
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Recine
Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2010 11:45 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Brodhead flybys
Sounds like what I saw from the ground Dan! Interestingly enough it was not
enough to change his approach in subsequent landings. I have no idea who it
was nor am I in a position to admonish anyone it just appeared careless and
not well thought out as far as consideration for other aircraft in the
pattern
John
------Original Message------
From: Dan Yocum
Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
ReplyTo: Pietenpol builders Board
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Brodhead flybys
Sent: Aug 4, 2010 11:12 AM
On the east end of the field there are some tall trees that block the
view of aircraft on the base leg. However, if you place yourself
correctly, you can see aircraft coming in on a "standard" final leg.
On one particular departure, I almost got a pretty baby-blue T-craft up
my keister because he was doing a very close in, arcing base leg. His
left wing was down... I'm not sure he ever saw me. Luckily, I saw him
through a gap in the trees before I entered the active.
One very good reason to perform squared off patterns in a high wing
aircraft is to get the wing out of the line of sight of the runway so
you can see what's happening on the ground.
Dan
--
Dan Yocum
Fermilab 630.840.6509
yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | airlion <airlion(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Brodhead flybys |
My suggestion would be to have a radio man out by the weathervane during th
e =0Apiet fly ins . It sure works at Peachstate Aerodrome south of Atlanta,
Ga. He =0Amonitors 122.8 and everyone calls when approaching. It sure make
s it a lot =0Asafer. He is a volunteer - not a Govt. man. Cheers, Gardiner
=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: "AMsafetyC(at)aol.com"
=0ATo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Wed, August
4, 2010 9:20:42 AM=0ASubject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Brodhead flybys=0A
=0ABill true enough, it may not be in the FAR however during training at an
=0Auncontrolled field and towered the pattern discipline was highly stres
sed and a =0Arequirement when in the pattern you need to be doing it by th
e numbers =0Aeverytime. Having never been in or flown a biplane or a Piet
my information is =0Agreatly limited to the Cessna and Piper aircraft that
being the case I am in =0Aall probability not alone in that primary train
ing strived to instill precision =0Aflying and predictable pattern operati
ons. Hard to shake old training habits. I =0Asuppose I have always subscri
bed to the idea that integrity means doing the =0Aright thing when no one
is watching, that goes for pattern work also. =0A =0AI agree with not want
ing to fill the air with regulations and rules, =0ABrodhead is a special p
lace and we already have a bunch of rules =0Aalready, especially since the
first charge of PIC is "safety of flight", that =0Abeing the case, we as
the pilot community need to keep that fresh and in mind =0Aat all times.
=0A=0A =0ADon't need no stinkin rules all we really need are responsible pi
lots following =0Athe rules we already know but may not completely remembe
r. I dont remember them =0Aall, all the time and have to rely on the book
to get them refreshed at my age =0Aand in my mind a reminder is always goo
d as a proactive measure rather than the =0Aaccident investigation in the
reactive case. Yes I know its the Safety Director =0Ain me coming out, its
just a bunch easier to start safe and end safe.=0A =0ASafe in the morning
, safe all day long!=0A =0AThe sermon is ended thanks be to patience, under
standing and practicality. =0A =0AJohn=0A =0A =0AIn a message dated 8/3/20
10 11:30:52 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, =0Abillsayre(at)ymail.com writes:=0A-
-> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "BYD" =0A>
=0A>Just some thoughts=C3=A2=82=AC=C2=0A>=0A>John wrote: =0A>> "it ap
peared to me that downwind to short final was more an arc rather than
=0A>>the squared off pattern we were and still are required to fly, unle
ss given a =0A>>straight in approach".=0A>=0A>=0A>In a Biplane, I was taugh
t to fly an arc to landing for visibility reasons. =0A>I=C3=A2=82=AC
=84=A2ll grant you the Air Camper may not be quite as restricted but
unless =0A>I=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2m mistaken at an uncontrolled airfie
ld there is no one to =C3=A2=82=AC=C5=93give=C3=A2=82=AC a =0A>straig
ht in approach (clearance?). To nit-pick, there isn=C3=A2=82=AC
=84=A2t an FAR =0A>=C3=A2=82=AC=C5=93requiring=C3=A2=82=AC a =C3
=A2=82=AC=C5=93squared off pattern=C3=A2=82=AC either =C3=A2=82=AC
=9C it=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2s suggested in the =0A>AIM (and a good
idea IMO) but it is not required.=0A>=0A>Gene wrote: =0A>> "I propose th
at we encourage our group to allow only known individuals to =0A>>prop t
heir aircraft, and possibly add a forum on hand propping to the =0A>>Sat
urday lineup, out in front of the aircraft with differing engines/setups
=0A>>as demonstrations".=0A>=0A>=0A>Group or no group, I can=C3=A2
=82=AC=84=A2t imagine asking just some person to prop my =0A>plane.
Not only am I clueless whether this bozo knows how to prop a plane, =0A>
but how is he going to communicate if he wants the ignition on or off.
=0A>There=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2s more going on than meets the eye (esp
ecially to a non-aviators =0A>eye).=0A>=0A>I like the idea of a forum on ha
nd propping. It doesn=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2t have to be fancy =0A>or
formal, but even just sharing amongst ourselves about chocking or tying
=0A>and techniques we use and letting anyone listen in is great. I had
never =0A>hand-propped a Model-A and since I=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2m bu
ilding one I wanted to experience =0A>it, so I approached Larry Williams
and explained my reasoning and he was kind =0A>enough to allow me to prop
his Piet. Afterwards I felt silly for asking =0A>because it was straigh
tforward but in truth I=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2m glad I did.=0A>=0A>I=C3
=A2=82=AC=84=A2d hate to see our group fill up with rules and regu
lations, but I =0A>understand the desire for safety. I just start to wo
nder who will enforce =0A>the rules and what will the penalties be if I
round off my base to final leg =0A>without being given a straight in app
roach.=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>Read this topic online here:=0A>=0A>http://for
ums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307431#307431========
ay =======================
=0A> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS =0A>=========
============== - List Contribution
=0A>Web Site sp; =0A>========
============ =0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Schreiber" <lmforge(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Brodhead flybys |
I agree John, we don't need more rules but do need to follow those that have served
us all well in the past.
I typically arrive at Brodhead in my Tripacer. The pucker factor goes way up when
I get close to Brodhead. Even though I self announce on 122.9, I know that
no one is listening. I have no idea how many planes will be in the pattern and
at what altitude and direction they will be traveling. This can get real scary
on hazy days, which is why I elected to drive this year.
Rick Schreiber
----- Original Message -----
From:
Sent: 8/4/2010 8:24:28 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Brodhead flybys
Bill true enough, it may not be in the FAR however during training at an uncontrolled
field and towered the pattern discipline was highly stressed and a requirement
when in the pattern you need to be doing it by the numbers everytime.
Having never been in or flown a biplane or a Piet my information is greatly limited
to the Cessna and Piper aircraft that being the case I am in all probability
not alone in that primary training strived to instill precision flying and
predictable pattern operations. Hard to shake old training habits. I suppose
I have always subscribed to the idea that integrity means doing the right thing
when no one is watching, that goes for pattern work also.
I agree with not wanting to fill the air with regulations and rules, Brodhead is
a special place and we already have a bunch of rules already, especially since
the first charge of PIC is "safety of flight", that being the case, we as the
pilot community need to keep that fresh and in mind at all times.
Don't need no stinkin rules all we really need are responsible pilots following
the rules we already know but may not completely remember. I dont remember them
all, all the time and have to rely on the book to get them refreshed at my
age and in my mind a reminder is always good as a proactive measure rather than
the accident investigation in the reactive case. Yes I know its the Safety Director
in me coming out, its just a bunch easier to start safe and end safe.
Safe in the morning, safe all day long!
The sermon is ended thanks be to patience, understanding and practicality.
John
In a message dated 8/3/2010 11:30:52 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, billsayre(at)ymail.com
writes:
Just some thoughts
John wrote:
> "it appeared to me that downwind to short final was more an arc rather than the
squared off pattern we were and still are required to fly, unless given a straight
in approach".
In a Biplane, I was taught to fly an arc to landing for visibility reasons. Ill
grant you the Air Camper may not be quite as restricted but unless Im mistaken
at an uncontrolled airfield there is no one to give a straight in approach
(clearance?). To nit-pick, there isnt an FAR requiring a squared off pattern
either its suggested in the AIM (and a good idea IMO) but it is not required.
Gene wrote:
> "I propose that we encourage our group to allow only known individuals to prop
their aircraft, and possibly add a forum on hand propping to the Saturday lineup,
out in front of the aircraft with differing engines/setups as demonstrations".
Group or no group, I cant imagine asking just some person to prop my plane. Not
only am I clueless whether this bozo knows how to prop a plane, but how is he
going to communicate if he wants the ignition on or off. Theres more going
on than meets the eye (especially to a non-aviators eye).
I like the idea of a forum on hand propping. It doesnt have to be fancy or formal,
but even just sharing amongst ourselves about chocking or tying and techniques
we use and letting anyone listen in is great. I had never hand-propped
a Model-A and since Im building one I wanted to experience it, so I approached
Larry Williams and explained my reasoning and he was kind enough to allow me
to prop his Piet. Afterwards I felt silly for asking because it was straightforward
but in truth Im glad I did.
Id hate to see our group fill up with rules and regulations, but I understand the
desire for safety. I just start to wonder who will enforce the rules and what
will the penalties be if I round off my base to final leg without being given
a straight in approach.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307431#307431==============================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Brodhead flybys |
| From: | helspersew(at)aol.com |
Trouble is, that each pilot in command is responsible for his own airplane
, and is using his own best judgement. I for one would never follow along
most of the Cessna and Piper pilots that do giant rectangular patters, si
mply because I feel that it is unsafe for me and my aircraft. If there is
an engine failure or trouble, I want to be able to make the runway.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
-----Original Message-----
From: AMsafetyC(at)aol.com
Sent: Wed, Aug 4, 2010 8:20 am
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Brodhead flybys
Bill true enough, it may not be in the FAR however during training at an
uncontrolled field and towered the pattern discipline was highly stressed
and a requirement when in the pattern you need to be doing it by the numb
ers everytime. Having never been in or flown a biplane or a Piet my inform
ation is greatly limited to the Cessna and Piper aircraft that being the
case I am in all probability not alone in that primary training strived
to instill precision flying and predictable pattern operations. Hard to
shake old training habits. I suppose I have always subscribed to the idea
that integrity means doing the right thing when no one is watching, that
goes for pattern work also.
I agree with not wanting to fill the air with regulations and rules, Brodh
ead is a special place and we already have a bunch of rules already, espec
ially since the first charge of PIC is "safety of flight", that being the
case, we as the pilot community need to keep that fresh and in mind at al
l times.
Don't need no stinkin rules all we really need are responsible pilots foll
owing the rules we already know but may not completely remember. I dont re
member them all, all the time and have to rely on the book to get them ref
reshed at my age and in my mind a reminder is always good as a proactive
measure rather than the accident investigation in the reactive case. Yes
I know its the Safety Director in me coming out, its just a bunch easier
to start safe and end safe.
Safe in the morning, safe all day long!
The sermon is ended thanks be to patience, understanding and practicality.
John
In a message dated 8/3/2010 11:30:52 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, billsayre
@ymail.com writes:
Just some thoughts=C3=A2=82=AC=C2
John wrote:
> "it appeared to me that downwind to short final was more an arc rather
than the squared off pattern we were and still are required to fly, unles
s given a straight in approach".
In a Biplane, I was taught to fly an arc to landing for visibility reasons
. I=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2ll grant you the Air Camper may not be quite
as restricted but unless I=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2m mistaken at an uncont
rolled airfield there is no one to =C3=A2=82=AC=C5=93give=C3=A2=82
=AC=C2=9D a straight in approach (clearance?). To nit-pick, there isn=C3
=A2=82=AC=84=A2t an FAR =C3=A2=82=AC=C5=93requiring=C3=A2=82
=AC=C2=9D a =C3=A2=82=AC=C5=93squared off pattern=C3=A2=82=AC=C2=9D
either =C3=A2=82=AC=9C it=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2s suggested in
the AIM (and a good idea IMO) but it is not required.
Gene wrote:
> "I propose that we encourage our group to allow only known individuals
to prop their aircraft, and possibly add a forum on hand propping to the
Saturday lineup, out in front of the aircraft with differing engines/setu
ps as demonstrations".
Group or no group, I can=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2t imagine asking just some
person to prop my plane. Not only am I clueless whether this bozo knows
how to prop a plane, but how is he going to communicate if he wants the
ignition on or off. There=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2s more going on than me
ets the eye (especially to a non-aviators eye).
I like the idea of a forum on hand propping. It doesn=C3=A2=82=AC
=84=A2t have to be fancy or formal, but even just sharing amongst ourselve
s about chocking or tying and techniques we use and letting anyone listen
in is great. I had never hand-propped a Model-A and since I=C3=A2=82
=AC=84=A2m building one I wanted to experience it, so I approached Larr
y Williams and explained my reasoning and he was kind enough to allow me
to prop his Piet. Afterwards I felt silly for asking because it was stra
ightforward but in truth I=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2m glad I did.
I=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2d hate to see our group fill up with rules and re
gulations, but I understand the desire for safety. I just start to wonder
who will enforce the rules and what will the penalties be if I round off
my base to final leg without being given a straight in approach.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307431#307431=====
========================
=================
========================
======== - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS ====
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==================== -
List Contribution Web Site sp; ======
========================
====================
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-= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum -
-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
-= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
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-
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-= Same great content also available via the Web Forums!
-
-= --> http://forums.matronics.com
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-= Thank you for your generous support!
-= -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
-========================
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________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Builders/Pietenpols in the Northeast? |
| From: | "JGriff" <jgriffith19(at)comcast.net> |
Hello everyone. First time poster.
Ive been thinking about building (or buying) a Pietenpol and wondered if there
were any other builders here in the Northeast. I'd really like to see a project
and the plans before I commit to anything. I'd also really like to see a completed
one and see if how well I fit into one (I'm 6'2" 190).
Is there anyone in the New England/New York area that would be willing to show
me their project? I'm based in the Boston area.
Thanks.
Jamie
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307500#307500
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Brodhead flybys |
| From: | "899PM" <rockriverrifle(at)hotmail.com> |
Jack,
Do you remember what day you saw aircraft landing 3/21? As of late Thursday afternoon
21 was still open.
--------
PAPA MIKE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307501#307501
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Brodhead flybys |
It was Friday afternoon, after kevin's emergency landing, and the X's were
clearly in place.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of 899PM
Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2010 1:16 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Brodhead flybys
Jack,
Do you remember what day you saw aircraft landing 3/21? As of late Thursday
afternoon 21 was still open.
--------
PAPA MIKE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307501#307501
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Brodhead flybys |
| From: | "899PM" <rockriverrifle(at)hotmail.com> |
That's a big OOPS! I wish I had seen it.....I would have gone straight to the pilot
and politely asked if he realized that he had landed on a closed runway.
We need to police our own ranks or someone will do it for us.
--------
PAPA MIKE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307506#307506
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | AMsafetyC(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Brodhead flybys |
Bill,
Minor variations to pattern flying is expected and anticipated based upon
several factors aircraft configurations, nuiances, wind/weather conditions
and obviously the remote possibility of a declared or implied emergency,
all
within reason. Cutting in or cutting off aircraft in the pattern is
foolishly dangerous and unnecessary, only acceptable only in cases of de
clared
emergency, which everyone in the patter would be aware of assuming the
emergency was visually obvious or declared on the radio.
Cant say I buy Dan's argument that a small pattern is preferred over the
3/4 mile big fat pattern hold much creditability in my mind. Either you tr
ust
your engines reliability and performance or you don't fly.
Flying a close in pattern because you may have an engine out is no
different than the same concern for an engine out on departure or in rout
e, I see
little difference in the condition and more in the outcome of the event.
The possibility of an engine out is always there to some degree when rely
ing
on any piece of machinery, however I cant rationalize flying a tighter
pattern on the possibility of that occurring. I would suspect if that's
a
concern that prevails based upon past performance or other information th
e
flight should not take place. Engine out on departure is a more frighteni
ng
possibility than on approach, not that anyone wants either.
The airplane, I believe is well satisfied and happy to stay on the ground.
It is the decision of pilot and responsibility to make certain its worthy
of flight on each trip and if concerns are warranted maybe its not such a
good day to fly.
Again just opinions, it may be something worthy of publication in the new
s
letter prior to the gathering, no big shakes just a reminder to the
community for the safety and sake of all in attendance.
John
In a message dated 8/4/2010 11:50:28 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
billsayre(at)ymail.com writes:
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "BYD"
Having stated that I was taught to fly an arc to landing in a biplane, le
t
me also say that in a high-wing especially, I prefer a square turn from
base to final so I can get one last check that someone isn=C3=A2=82=AC
=84=A2t racing in on
a straight-in. I totally agree with having an understanding between pilo
ts
on how to approach and fly the pattern and the suggestions here are good
(as are the AIM) =C3=A2=82=AC=9C just short of creating =C3=A2
=82=AC=C5=93rules=C3=A2=82=AC=C2=9D. Also, unlike
closing the extra runways, there isn=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2t a way to co
mmunicate the agreed
procedures to a new arrival until after they=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2re on
the ground.
You=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2re totally right John that we should all utiliz
e the commonly
accepted procedures we are all taught =C3=A2=82=AC=9C somehow I
got the feeling we might be
headed towards vigilantism and I was concerned that a C-150 pilot might
criticize a Hatz or Pitts pilot for flying a little different (or visa-ve
rsa).
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307483#307483
========================
===========
========================
===========
========================
===========
========================
===========
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | landing gear weights and wheels |
I've thought about this a lot over the years. I'd guesstimate the wooden
"V's" of the Jenny gear are comparable in weight to the Metal ones of the
split gear. Not sure what the axle weights, but you can figure that out by
looking at ACS catalog under the proper tubing and it gives a weight per
foot, so that'll answer that. Subtract that, but add back the cross ties
and there's your difference. My complete WAG would be the Jenny gear with
the same wheels as the split gear will weigh fifteen pounds more??? (again,
this is a COMPLETE guesstimate)
Douwe
Ps. Kevin.. I was there, but each time I wanted to introduce myself you were
either showing off your one-sided retractable Piet gear or surrounded by
people. I'll be sure to find you next year.
"Perhaps we shall fly together one day, you and I."
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott Knowlton " <flyingscott_k(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Brodhead flybys |
I would like to wade into the pattern size debate. Here in Canada, we teach safe
emergency landings from specific points in the pattern to reinforce the idea
behind acceptable pattern size. A circuit by definition is a manouever flown
to carry out a landing. This being the case, the safest circuit is one that
would result in a runway landing from the greatest number of points on the circuit
should engine trouble exist... which does happen. This is also why we forego
raising the landing gear of a non high performance airplane until the end
of the runway is reached. This would permit a runway landing on wheels should
an engine failure occur... Once again, a safer outcome.
Finally, we teach route flying in a single engine aircraft to avoid open bodies
of water, high density populations and hazardous terrain because we want to always
ensure we have options to carry out a safe landing in the event of an engine
failure.
>From an airmanship point of view, we need to conform to other faster, slower,
wider or tighter traffic in an uncontrolled circuit. In a perfect world, however,
I would always fly a pattern that gives me the greatest chance of landing
on the runway from an engine failure. I've had two engines fail in 10,000 hours,
both on certified aircraft, both in the circuit. I was grateful for my training
in both occurences and landing safely on the airport from both reinforced
how I fly and how I teach.
Our forum is for experimental airplanes which as we've been reading do have a higher
incidence of engine issues. We all recognize that our chosen sport/hobby
does bring with it potential dangers that we must deal with. A tighter pattern
on any occasion that it can be safely flown is a great method I support to
make our sport safer.
Scott Knowlton
Slow builder in Burlington Ontario.
-----Original Message-----
From: AMsafetyC(at)aol.com
Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2010 18:06:21
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Brodhead flybys
Bill,
Minor variations to pattern flying is expected and anticipated based upon several
factors aircraft configurations, nuiances,wind/weather conditions and obviously
the remote possibility of a declared or implied emergency, all within reason.
Cutting in or cutting off aircraft in the pattern is foolishly dangerous
and unnecessary, onlyacceptable only in cases ofdeclaredemergency, which everyone
in the patter would be aware of assuming the emergency was visually obvious
or declared on the radio.
Cant say I buy Dan's argument that a small pattern is preferred over the 3/4 mile
big fat pattern hold much creditability in my mind. Either you trust your engines
reliability and performanceor you don't fly.
Flying aclose in pattern because you may have an engine out is no different thanthe
same concern foran engine out on departure or in route, I see little difference
in the condition and more in the outcome of the event.The possibility of
an engine out is always there to some degree when relying on any piece of machinery,
however I cant rationalize flying a tighter pattern on the possibility
of that occurring. I would suspectif that's a concern that prevails based upon
past performance or other information the flight should not take place. Engine
out on departure is a more frightening possibility than on approach, not that
anyone wants either.
The airplane, I believe is well satisfied and happy to stay on the ground. It is
the decision ofpilot and responsibility to make certain its worthy of flight
on each trip and if concerns are warranted maybe its not such a good day to fly.
Again just opinions, itmay be something worthy ofpublication in the news letter
prior to the gathering, no big shakes just a reminder to the community for the
safety and sake of all in attendance.
John
Having stated that I was taught to fly an arc to landing in a biplane, let me also
say that in a high-wing especially, I prefer a square turn from base to final
so I can get one last check that someone isnTt racing in on a straight-in.
I totally agree with having an understanding between pilots on how to approach
and fly the pattern and the suggestions here are good (as are the AIM) " just
short of creating rules. Also, unlike closing the extra runways, there isnTt
a way to communicate the agreed procedures to a new arrival until after theyTre
on the ground.
YouTre totally right John that we should all utilize the commonly accepted procedures
we are all taught " somehow I got the feeling we might be headed towards
vigilantism and I was concerned that a C-150 pilot might criticize a Hatz or
Pitts pilot for flying a little different (or visa-versa).
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307483#307483==============================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Single strand of bungee |
| From: | "kevinpurtee" <kevin.purtee(at)us.army.mil> |
For those of you building per-the-plans split gear - my gear is straight out of
the 1932 plans (except for the wire wheels and brakes) and uses a single 6' strand
of bungee on each side.
When the bungee broke on Sunday the 24th, I realized that it is a single point
of failure. Fortunately, the safety cable worked as designed.
For the sake of redundancy I plan to replace the single strand system with donuts.
An additional benefit is that donuts are easier to install.
I'll fabricate the donuts using the neat safety wire clamp tool thingy we bought
at oshkosh and use 1/2" bungee. I'll test a couple of donuts to 500 or 600
lbs before I actually use them on the plane. If successful, I'll put enough of
the donuts on each side to handle a 4 or 5 G landing.
Thought about replacing the whole mess with springs but I like the rubber bands.
Will let you know how it works out.
Axel
--------
Kevin Purtee
NX899KP
Austin/Georgetown, TX
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307521#307521
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Traffic Patterns (was Re: Brodhead flybys) |
I agree, Scott. I'm continually at odds with the Flying Club at my local
airport where they teach their students to fly downwind a mile and a half off
the runway and 2 mile finals. I make it a point to fly my downwind leg close
enough to be able to make the runway in the event of an engine failure (I've
had one too, in a certificated airplane). In a Pietenpol, that requires a
VERY close downwind, since its glide ratio is somewhere between that of a
brick and a bowling ball.
I recently got my certification as a Flight Instructor and the Inspector from
FSDO was pleased when I flew my downwind within an easy glide of the runway
(this is a Cherokee Arrow that glides no better than a Pietenpol - best glide
speed is 105 mph, which requires a nose down attitude of about 20 degrees, and
it comes down at about 800 fpm!). He said he was ready to pull the engine if
I had made a wide pattern, just to make a point, but I didn't give him the
opportunity.
Different airplanes obviously require different pattern sizes, otherwise we'd
all be making patterns the size of bizjets. Given that premise, why not fly
the pattern so you can make the airport if the engine quits?
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott Knowlton
Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2010 2:55 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Brodhead flybys
I would like to wade into the pattern size debate. Here in Canada, we teach
safe emergency landings from specific points in the pattern to reinforce the
idea behind acceptable pattern size. A circuit by definition is a manouever
flown to carry out a landing. This being the case, the safest circuit is one
that would result in a runway landing from the greatest number of points on
the circuit should engine trouble exist... which does happen. This is also
why we forego raising the landing gear of a non high performance airplane
until the end of the runway is reached. This would permit a runway landing on
wheels should an engine failure occur... Once again, a safer outcome.
Finally, we teach route flying in a single engine aircraft to avoid open
bodies of water, high density populations and hazardous terrain because we
want to always ensure we have options to carry out a safe landing in the event
of an engine failure.
>From an airmanship point of view, we need to conform to other faster, slower,
>wider or tighter traffic in an uncontrolled circuit. In a perfect world,
>however, I would always fly a pattern that gives me the greatest chance of
>landing on the runway from an engine failure. I've had two engines fail in
>10,000 hours, both on certified aircraft, both in the circuit. I was
>grateful for my training in both occurences and landing safely on the airport
>from both reinforced how I fly and how I teach.
Our forum is for experimental airplanes which as we've been reading do have a
higher incidence of engine issues. We all recognize that our chosen
sport/hobby does bring with it potential dangers that we must deal with. A
tighter pattern on any occasion that it can be safely flown is a great method
I support to make our sport safer.
Scott Knowlton
Slow builder in Burlington Ontario.
-----Original Message-----
From: AMsafetyC(at)aol.com
Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2010 18:06:21
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Brodhead flybys
Bill,
Minor variations to pattern flying is expected and anticipated based upon
several factors aircraft configurations, nuiances, wind/weather conditions and
obviously the remote possibility of a declared or implied emergency, all
within reason. Cutting in or cutting off aircraft in the pattern is foolishly
dangerous and unnecessary, only acceptable only in cases of declared
emergency, which everyone in the patter would be aware of assuming the
emergency was visually obvious or declared on the radio.
Cant say I buy Dan's argument that a small pattern is preferred over the 3/4
mile big fat pattern hold much creditability in my mind. Either you trust your
engines reliability and performance or you don't fly.
Flying a close in pattern because you may have an engine out is no different
than the same concern for an engine out on departure or in route, I see little
difference in the condition and more in the outcome of the event. The
possibility of an engine out is always there to some degree when relying on
any piece of machinery, however I cant rationalize flying a tighter pattern
on the possibility of that occurring. I would suspect if that's a concern
that prevails based upon past performance or other information the flight
should not take place. Engine out on departure is a more frightening
possibility than on approach, not that anyone wants either.
The airplane, I believe is well satisfied and happy to stay on the ground. It
is the decision of pilot and responsibility to make certain its worthy of
flight on each trip and if concerns are warranted maybe its not such a good
day to fly.
Again just opinions, it may be something worthy of publication in the news
letter prior to the gathering, no big shakes just a reminder to the community
for the safety and sake of all in attendance.
John
In a message dated 8/4/2010 11:50:28 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
Having stated that I was taught to fly an arc to landing in a biplane, let me
also say that in a high-wing especially, I prefer a square turn from base to
final so I can get one last check that someone isn?Tt racing in on a
straight-in. I totally agree with having an understanding between pilots on
how to approach and fly the pattern and the suggestions here are good (as are
the AIM) ?" just short of creating ?orules?. Also, unlike closing the
extra runways, there isn?Tt a way to communicate the agreed procedures to a
new arrival until after they?Tre on the ground.
You?Tre totally right John that we should all utilize the commonly accepted
procedures we are all taught ?" somehow I got the feeling we might be headed
towards vigilantism and I was concerned that a C-150 pilot might criticize a
Hatz or Pitts pilot for flying a little different (or visa-versa).
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307483#307483==============================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Brodhead flybys |
John,
What if there were data showing that power system
failures occur more often when changes are made
with engine controls (throttle, MP, etc.), like
occurs most often in the pattern? That's what my
instructor taught me and it is specifically why
he taught me to fly tight patterns. I have not
personally seen those data, though, so I don't
know for a fact that power system failures occur
more often in the pattern than, say, in cruise.
Jeff
>Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
>Content-Language: en
>
>Bill,
>
>Minor variations to pattern flying is expected
>and anticipated based upon several factors
>aircraft configurations, nuiances, wind/weather
>conditions and obviously the remote possibility
>of a declared or implied emergency, all within
>reason. Cutting in or cutting off aircraft in
>the pattern is foolishly dangerous and
>unnecessary, only acceptable only in cases
>of declared emergency, which everyone in the
>patter would be aware of assuming the emergency
>was visually obvious or declared on the radio.
>
>Cant say I buy Dan's argument that a small
>pattern is preferred over the 3/4 mile big fat
>pattern hold much creditability in my mind.
>Either you trust your engines reliability and
>performance or you don't fly.
>
>Flying a close in pattern because you may have
>an engine out is no different than the same
>concern for an engine out on departure or in
>route, I see little difference in the condition
>and more in the outcome of the event. The
>possibility of an engine out is always there to
>some degree when relying on any piece of
>machinery, however I cant rationalize flying a
>tighter pattern on the possibility of that
>occurring. I would suspect if that's a concern
>that prevails based upon past performance or
>other information the flight should not take
>place. Engine out on departure is a more
>frightening possibility than on approach, not
>that anyone wants either.
>
>The airplane, I believe is well satisfied and
>happy to stay on the ground. It is the decision
>of pilot and responsibility to make certain its
>worthy of flight on each trip and if concerns
>are warranted maybe its not such a good day to
>fly.
>
>Again just opinions, it may be something worthy
>of publication in the news letter prior to the
>gathering, no big shakes just a reminder to the
>community for the safety and sake of all in
>attendance.
>
>John
>
>In a message dated 8/4/2010 11:50:28 A.M.
>Eastern Daylight Time, billsayre(at)ymail.com
>writes:
>
>
>Having stated that I was taught to fly an arc to
>landing in a biplane, let me also say that in a
>high-wing especially, I prefer a square turn
>from base to final so I can get one last check
>that someone isn=A4=81t racing in on a straight-in.
>I totally agree with having an understanding
>between pilots on how to approach and fly the
>pattern and the suggestions here are good (as
>are the AIM) =A4" just short of creating
>=A4rules=A4=F9. Also, unlike closing the extra
>runways, there isn=A4=81t a way to communicate the
>agreed procedures to a new arrival until after
>they=A4=81re on the ground.
>
>You=A4=81re totally right John that we should all
>utilize the commonly accepted procedures we are
>all taught =A4" somehow I got the feeling we
>might be headed towards vigilantism and I was
>concerned that a C-150 pilot might criticize a
>Hatz or Pitts pilot for flying a little
>different (or visa-versa).
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307483#307483=====
================
>=========================
=======================
>- MATRONICS WEB FORUMS
>=========================
=======================
>- List Contribution Web Site sp;
>=========================
>
>
><http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List>http://www.matronics.com
/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
><http://www.matronics.com/contribution>http://www.matronics.com/contributio
n
--
---
Jeffrey H. Boatright, Ph.D.
Associate Professor of Ophthalmology
Emory University School of Medicine
Editor-in-Chief
Molecular Vision
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Brodhead flybys |
| From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
Don't be discouraged John, I think your concerns are completely legitimate.
Amsafetyc wrote:
> I guess we are going to stick with what works for us as individual pilots doing
the best we can and let the chips fall where they may. I just hope none of
them chips fall and hit me!
>
> John
>
--------
Mark Chouinard
Finishing up Wings - Working on Center Section
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307527#307527
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ben Charvet <bencharvet(at)gmail.com> |
Nice looking plane. You can find used engines pretty easily on
Barnstormers.com. Look under piston engines, then Continental. If you
watch the list for a while something close by is bound to turn up. From
my past experience it would be best to find an engine you can see run
with good oil pressures, logbooks, and get a compression check done
before you buy, unless you are planning to do a rebuild before you fly.
Get'r'done!
Ben
On 8/4/2010 10:52 AM, TriScout wrote:
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "TriScout"
>
> Caught a good deal on a GN-1, so I bought it and UHauled her home to Dallas.
In the market for a used (safe) C85/A65. Any Intel on a one, feel free to lemme
know. Prefer to find one w/in a day's drive/nearby. Was starting to build Piet
ribs, but who knows..maybe I can make Brodhead earlier than I thought.. (will
attempt a photo)
>
> Larry
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307475#307475
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/dscf3741_105.jpg
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | should I install mixture control? |
Trying to decide if I should install my mixture control or just wire it
rich.
What are your experiences?
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | should I install mixture control? |
What carburetor? With a Marvel-Schebler I would use the mixture control.
On the Stromberg on my Pietenpol, I've wired it full rich.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Douwe
Blumberg
Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2010 4:00 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: should I install mixture control?
Trying to decide if I should install my mixture control or just wire it
rich.
What are your experiences?
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Traffic Patterns (was Re: Brodhead flybys) |
| From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
More good points Jack.
I can see that there are lots of reasons to do things a certain way depending on
conditions and equipment. On the other hand, I've seen a local Breezy driver
(no radio) cut off several people on short final as he flies in close. Some
have been students... I had to call one on the radio because I wasn't sure that
he saw the guy cut in underneath him. I often wonder if he thinks that he
has the right of way because he is lower and slower than everything else, or if
he truly doesn't see them... either is dangerous of course. I know, we are
talking primarily about Brodhead and the low and slow flying going on around there.
I remember sitting with John while waiting for our numbers NOT to be drawn
for prizes while we watched the aircraft in the pattern. There were a few
flying close in patterns, and while I do understand your comments about flying
a pattern that is suitable to your airplane, it seemed that a couple were doing
race track touch-and-gos. A couple of these guys could have spread out and
took a more reasonable (cautious) approach. There were three of us watching
one airplane in particular... each time he passed we all said, "look at that
guy!" as he banked his wings steep and abrupt, cutting right into the runway with
little or no attempt at a base or final leg... pass after pass. Anyhow, that
was just from our point of view... perhaps he was justified from where he
was sitting.
--------
Mark Chouinard
Finishing up Wings - Working on Center Section
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307533#307533
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Single strand of bungee |
| From: | "Billy McCaskill" <billmz(at)cox.net> |
Sounds like a good idea, Kevin. And the donuts don't weigh much or take up much
space, so you could keep a couple of spares in the plane with you in case that
you ever find yourself needing to make repairs on the field again.
--------
Billy McCaskill
Urbana, IL
tail section almost done, starting on ribs soon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307535#307535
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: should I install mixture control? |
| From: | Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com> |
I believe Douwe said Marvel in the earlier posts where he was asking about
rebuilding.
You may not bother to lean the mixture at the altitudes you would fly your
Piet at, but having the mixture control would also allow you to shut the
engine down by pulling the mixture to idle/cut-off and starving the engine
of fuel, as opposed to just shutting off the mags and leaving a fuel/air
charge in the cylinders.....theoretically safer. Those of us with Stromberg
s
can't do much about that....
Ryan
On Wed, Aug 4, 2010 at 3:10 PM, Jack Phillips wrote
:
> What carburetor? With a Marvel-Schebler I would use the mixture
> control. On the Stromberg on my Pietenpol, I=92ve wired it full rich.
>
>
> Jack Phillips
>
> NX899JP
>
> Raleigh, NC
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Douwe Blumberg
> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 04, 2010 4:00 PM
> *To:* pietenpolgroup
> *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: should I install mixture control?
>
>
> Trying to decide if I should install my mixture control or just wire it
> rich.
>
>
> What are your experiences?
>
>
> Douwe
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List*
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://forums.matronics.com*
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>
> * *
>
> *
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | H RULE <harvey.rule(at)rogers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: should I install mixture control? |
My AME wired it rich for me due to the fact I told him it was unlikely I wo
uld =0Aever be flying above 3000 ft at which point one can play with such t
hings.=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: Douwe Blumber
g =0ATo: pietenpolgroup =0ASent: Wed, August 4, 2010 4:00:28 PM=0ASubject: Pietenpol-List:
should I install mixture control?=0A=0A=0ATrying to decide if I should inst
all my mixture control or just wire it rich.=0A-=0AWhat are your experien
====================== =0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: should I install mixture control? |
I turn the fuel off at the tank. Seems safest to me. Plus, if I
don't, all the fuel leaks out over the week. Leaky Stromberg...
>I believe Douwe said Marvel in the earlier posts where he was asking
>about rebuilding.
>
>You may not bother to lean the mixture at the altitudes you would
>fly your Piet at, but having the mixture control would also allow
>you to shut the engine down by pulling the mixture to idle/cut-off
>and starving the engine of fuel, as opposed to just shutting off the
>mags and leaving a fuel/air charge in the
>cylinders.....theoretically safer. Those of us with Strombergs can't
>do much about that....
>
>Ryan
>
>On Wed, Aug 4, 2010 at 3:10 PM, Jack Phillips
><pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
>What carburetor? With a Marvel-Schebler I would use the mixture
>control. On the Stromberg on my Pietenpol, I've wired it full rich.
>
>Jack Phillips
>
>NX899JP
>
>Raleigh, NC
>
>
>From:
>owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]
>On Behalf Of Douwe Blumberg
>Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2010 4:00 PM
>To: pietenpolgroup
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: should I install mixture control?
>
>Trying to decide if I should install my mixture control or just wire it rich.
>
>What are your experiences?
>
>Douwe
--
Jeff Boatright
"Now let's think about this..."
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ben Charvet <bencharvet(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: should I install mixture control? |
The stromberg NAS3B on mine doesn't even have a mixture control. I
don't generally fly high enough to need it. Plus I get to check the
integrity of my P-lead grounds every time I shut it off.
Ben
On 8/4/2010 4:00 PM, Douwe Blumberg wrote:
>
> Trying to decide if I should install my mixture control or just wire
> it rich.
>
> What are your experiences?
>
> Douwe
>
> *
>
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | H RULE <harvey.rule(at)rogers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Brodhead flybys |
At our field on thr Redeau River here in Ottawa Canada it is frowned upon i
f you =0Ado a flyby anywhere other than down the middle of the runway.I fle
w over the =0Ahangers one day and got into a pile of trouble for it.Safety
first is their =0Amotto and the middle of the runway is the safest place fo
r such things.That's my =0Atake on the matter anyway.-=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A____
____________________________=0AFrom: Dan Yocum <yocum(at)fnal.gov>=0ATo: piete
npol-list(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Wed, August 4, 2010 11:12:27 AM=0ASubject:
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Brodhead flybys=0A=0A--> Pietenpol-List message pos
ted by: Dan Yocum =0A=0AOn the east end of the field there
are some tall trees that block the view of =0Aaircraft on the base leg.-
However, if you place yourself correctly, you can see =0Aaircraft coming in
on a "standard" final leg.=0A=0AOn one particular departure, I almost got
a pretty baby-blue T-craft up my =0Akeister because he was doing a very clo
se in, arcing base leg.- His left wing =0Awas down... I'm not sure he eve
r saw me.- Luckily, I saw him through a gap in =0Athe trees before I ente
red the active.=0A=0AOne very good reason to perform squared off patterns i
n a high wing aircraft is =0Ato get the wing out of the line of sight of th
e runway so you can see what's =0Ahappening on the ground.=0A=0ADan=0A=0A
=0A-- Dan Yocum=0AFermilab- 630.840.6509=0Ayocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigr
id.fnal.gov=0A"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty
===================
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: landing gear weights and wheels |
| From: | Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
I agree with Jack that Don Emich's metal gear with large spoke wheels is
kind of the best of both worlds, especially with the wheel covers. Minimum
weight (and less expensive) but still retaining the vintage look. I think
that the large covered spoke wheels provides 75% of the vintage gear look
(especially from a distance). I built mine with Cub-style gear based on the
GN-1 plans with 8.0-6 tires but would build it like Don's if doing it again
.
rick
On Wed, Aug 4, 2010 at 12:52 PM, Douwe Blumberg wrote:
> I=92ve thought about this a lot over the years. I=92d guesstimate the w
ooden
> =93V=92s=94 of the Jenny gear are comparable in weight to the Metal ones
of the
> split gear. Not sure what the axle weights, but you can figure that out
by
> looking at ACS catalog under the proper tubing and it gives a weight per
> foot, so that=92ll answer that. Subtract that, but add back the cross ti
es
> and there=92s your difference. My complete WAG would be the Jenny gear w
ith
> the same wheels as the split gear will weigh fifteen pounds more??? (agai
n,
> this is a COMPLETE guesstimate)
>
>
> Douwe
>
>
> Ps. Kevin.. I was there, but each time I wanted to introduce myself you
> were either showing off your one-sided retractable Piet gear or surrounde
d
> by people. I=92ll be sure to find you next year.
>
>
> =93Perhaps we shall fly together one day, you and I=85=94
>
> *
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
> *
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | should I install mixture control? |
As I said, my Stromberg has the mixture wired full rich, but there are times
even flying 500' AGL that I wish I had the ability to lean the mixture.
Flying from North Carolina to Brodhead I've got to get it to 4500' to stay
at least 500' AGL when crossing over the ridge that separates Virginia from
West Virginia, and the loss in power at that altitude is noticeable. I've
been in downdrafts in that area where I was climbing at full throttle and
losing 500 feet per minute. What I'd give for an extra 50 RPM then!
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ben Charvet
Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2010 4:48 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: should I install mixture control?
The stromberg NAS3B on mine doesn't even have a mixture control. I don't
generally fly high enough to need it. Plus I get to check the integrity of
my P-lead grounds every time I shut it off.
Ben
On 8/4/2010 4:00 PM, Douwe Blumberg wrote:
Trying to decide if I should install my mixture control or just wire it
rich.
What are your experiences?
Douwe
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contri
bution
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Single strand of bungee |
| From: | Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
How did you attach your safety cable Kevin? I should add one and I didn't
notice it when I was looking at your beautiful and just repaired Piet at
Broadhead.
rick
On Wed, Aug 4, 2010 at 1:07 PM, kevinpurtee wrote:
> kevin.purtee(at)us.army.mil>
>
> For those of you building per-the-plans split gear - my gear is straight
> out of the 1932 plans (except for the wire wheels and brakes) and uses a
> single 6' strand of bungee on each side.
>
> When the bungee broke on Sunday the 24th, I realized that it is a single
> point of failure. Fortunately, the safety cable worked as designed.
>
> For the sake of redundancy I plan to replace the single strand system with
> donuts. An additional benefit is that donuts are easier to install.
>
> I'll fabricate the donuts using the neat safety wire clamp tool thingy we
> bought at oshkosh and use 1/2" bungee. I'll test a couple of donuts to 500
> or 600 lbs before I actually use them on the plane. If successful, I'll put
> enough of the donuts on each side to handle a 4 or 5 G landing.
>
> Thought about replacing the whole mess with springs but I like the rubber
> bands.
>
> Will let you know how it works out.
>
> Axel
>
> --------
> Kevin Purtee
> NX899KP
> Austin/Georgetown, TX
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307521#307521
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Doug Dever <chiefpepperhead(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Brodhead flybys |
I don't chime in much either except for questions. But=2C as a spam can dr
iver and former CFI (I'm not offended Dan) I'm a big advocate of "FAA" patt
erns and proceedures. I taught out of a 2=2C300 x 38ft strip and we taught
to pull the power on downwind opposte the numbers and adjust your pattern.
Our patterns were tight=2C but they were still rectangular. All landings
were full stall or in extreme conditions the slowest practical airspeed.
I like to raise the wing to see what's there and by flying a straight final
you have a much moe stable approach. That being said=2C most of the time
I have is in the Canadian bush flying seaplanes. And=2C yes=2C I fly recta
ngular patterns. Mostly for the ability to concentrate on the approach and
have the aircraft in a stable configuation. Many approaches demanded atte
ntion due to terrain avoidence and limited landing space. Departures on th
e otherhand often anything but standard.
As pilots we are taught to always expect the unexpeted. However it's nice
when other pilots are doing what you expect. Just my .02.
Doug Dever
In beautiful Stow Ohio
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Brodhead flybys
Date: Wed=2C 4 Aug 2010 12:55:10 -0400
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
Trouble is=2C that each pilot in command is responsible for his own airplan
e=2C and is using his own best judgement. I for one would never follow alon
g most of the Cessna and Piper pilots that do giant rectangular patters=2C
simply because I feel that it is unsafe for me and my aircraft. If there is
an engine failure or trouble=2C I want to be able to make the runway.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove=2C IL.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Brodhead flybys |
| From: | "BYD" <billsayre(at)ymail.com> |
> Cant say I buy Dan's argument that a small pattern is preferred over the 3/4
mile big fat pattern hold much creditability in my mind. Either you trust your
engines reliability and performance or you don't fly.
There are those who have and those who will. I have had two engine outs and made
it to a runway in both instances. Using your logic, I would no longer fly.
> Flying a close in pattern because you may have an engine out is no different
than the same concern for an engine out on departure or in route
Maybe it was just my training, but I was taught to fly field to field when away
from the airport and my instructor even pulled power on me occasionally to see
if I had a field picked out and to see if I could make it.
> Again just opinions, it may be something worthy of publication in the news letter
prior to the gathering, no big shakes just a reminder to the community for
the safety and sake of all in attendance.
That is an excellent recommendation. I dont wish to get hurt and Id have a tough
time living with myself if I caused major injury to someone else, so I dont
mind reviewing procedures I just get nervous when people bring up acting like
the police.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307549#307549
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Brodhead flybys |
I think it's time for a "Hitler Hates Flying in the Pattern Rules" video.....
-----Original Message-----
>From: BYD <billsayre(at)ymail.com>
>Sent: Aug 4, 2010 5:23 PM
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Brodhead flybys
>
>
>> Cant say I buy Dan's argument that a small pattern is preferred over the 3/4
mile big fat pattern hold much creditability in my mind. Either you trust your
engines reliability and performance or you don't fly.
>
>
>There are those who have and those who will. I have had two engine outs and made
it to a runway in both instances. Using your logic, I would no longer fly.
>
>
>> Flying a close in pattern because you may have an engine out is no different
than the same concern for an engine out on departure or in route
>
>
>Maybe it was just my training, but I was taught to fly field to field when away
from the airport and my instructor even pulled power on me occasionally to see
if I had a field picked out and to see if I could make it.
>
>
>> Again just opinions, it may be something worthy of publication in the news letter
prior to the gathering, no big shakes just a reminder to the community for
the safety and sake of all in attendance.
>
>
>That is an excellent recommendation. I dont wish to get hurt and Id have a tough
time living with myself if I caused major injury to someone else, so I dont
mind reviewing procedures I just get nervous when people bring up acting like
the police.
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307549#307549
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Brodhead flybys |
| From: | Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com> |
"Navratil and Cardinal enter from the north.....Phillips, and the Hayfield
Boys enter from the east.....Gantzer and Williams from the south.....that
damned blue Taylorcraft going over at 300 ft, and Cuy & Ozbirn with their
screaming overhead break....doesn't anyone know how to enter at 45 to the
downwind!?!? Nein, nein, nein!!!!
On Wed, Aug 4, 2010 at 4:34 PM, Jim Markle wrote
:
> jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
>
> I think it's time for a "Hitler Hates Flying in the Pattern Rules"
> video.....
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> >From: BYD <billsayre(at)ymail.com>
> >Sent: Aug 4, 2010 5:23 PM
> >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Brodhead flybys
> >
> >
> >
> >> Cant say I buy Dan's argument that a small pattern is preferred over t
he
> 3/4 mile big fat pattern hold much creditability in my mind. Either you
> trust your engines reliability and performance or you don't fly.
> >
> >
> >There are those who have and those who will. I have had two engine outs
> and made it to a runway in both instances. Using your logic, I would no
> longer fly.
> >
> >
> >> Flying a close in pattern because you may have an engine out is no
> different than the same concern for an engine out on departure or in rout
e
> >
> >
> >Maybe it was just my training, but I was taught to fly =9Cfield to
field
> when away from the airport and my instructor even pulled power on me
> occasionally to see if I had a field picked out and to see if I could mak
e
> it.
> >
> >
> >> Again just opinions, it may be something worthy of publication in the
> news letter prior to the gathering, no big shakes just a reminder to the
> community for the safety and sake of all in attendance.
> >
> >
> >That is an excellent recommendation. I don=99t wish to get hurt a
nd I=99d
> have a tough time living with myself if I caused major injury to someone
> else, so I don=99t mind reviewing procedures =93 I just get n
ervous when
> people bring up acting like the police.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Read this topic online here:
> >
> >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307549#307549
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Single strand of bungee |
| From: | "kevinpurtee" <kevin.purtee(at)us.army.mil> |
Rick - I just wrapped a piece of 1/8 control cable around the two bungee retaining
tubes and swaged it. I zip tie it up out of the way for aesthetics.
--------
Kevin Purtee
NX899KP
Austin/Georgetown, TX
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307551#307551
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: First visit to a Pietenpoler |
| From: | "Piet2112" <curtdm(at)gmail.com> |
Thanks Axel for the invite! I'll be sure to give you a call before my next trip
to Austin. Hopefully sooner than later!
Curtis
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307553#307553
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gene Rambo <generambo(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Brodhead flybys |
It looks like this post got hijacked and wayyyy off topic. There is a worl
d of difference between the fly-by pattern and the landing pattern. Andrew
King's very legitimate observation was that people doing fly-bys were not
following any kind of predictable pattern that is the norm for fly-ins ever
ywhere. I am not a fan of unnecessary rules and regulations=2C but safety
is always the first consideration. A request that everyone do their fly-by
s in a predictable manner is not an onerous rule. The discussion of the me
rits of a standard landing pattern is a whole different subject.
Gene
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Brodhead flybys
> From: billsayre(at)ymail.com
> Date: Wed=2C 4 Aug 2010 14:23:13 -0700
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>
>
>
> > Cant say I buy Dan's argument that a small pattern is preferred over th
e 3/4 mile big fat pattern hold much creditability in my mind. Either you t
rust your engines reliability and performance or you don't fly.
>
>
> There are those who have and those who will. I have had two engine outs a
nd made it to a runway in both instances. Using your logic=2C I would no lo
nger fly.
>
>
> > Flying a close in pattern because you may have an engine out is no diff
erent than the same concern for an engine out on departure or in route
>
>
> Maybe it was just my training=2C but I was taught to fly =9Cfield t
o field=9D when away from the airport and my instructor even pulled p
ower on me occasionally to see if I had a field picked out and to see if I
could make it.
>
>
> > Again just opinions=2C it may be something worthy of publication in the
news letter prior to the gathering=2C no big shakes just a reminder to the
community for the safety and sake of all in attendance.
>
>
> That is an excellent recommendation. I don=99t wish to get hurt and
I=99d have a tough time living with myself if I caused major injury
to someone else=2C so I don=99t mind reviewing procedures =93 I
just get nervous when people bring up acting like the police.
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307549#307549
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: should I install mixture control? |
| From: | "Jerry Dotson" <jdotson(at)erec.net> |
For sure use the mixture control. The O-200 will have some flavor of MA-3 on it
and what Jack said as well as it will stop on a hot day when you want to shut
down. Also if you suspect an oil fouled plug on a mag check a lean mixture for
a few seconds will help dry it off.
--------
Jerry Dotson
59 Daniel Johnson Rd
Baker, FL 32531
Started building NX510JD July, 2009
Ribs and tailfeathers done
using Lycoming O-235
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307561#307561
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Fitting math...again |
Hello Jack. I am using aluminum streamline tubing for all of my struts. The
se struts need some type of insert for strength. I want to use aluminum ins
ide to avoid corrosion issues. However, I need to be sure what I have come
up with is solid and strong. I have revisited an email from you time and ti
me again on edge distance and tensile strength. Here is what I have:-
-
6060-T6 aluminum bar 3/4" square
-
1/4" bolt
-
Edge distance of .5" (actual edge distance...bolt center is about 5/8")
-
.5 X .75 = .375 sq.in.
-
.375 X 22000 psi (conservative?) = 8,250 lbs.
-
Your thoughts please.
-
Michael Perez
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Riblett 612 or 613.5, and jigs too... |
| From: | Mark Roberts <mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com> |
True enough about weight. I am no help there, as I will never see 230
again most likely. At 255 right now, I am gonna be the heaviest thing
next to the engine in the plane! (Well, that is a bit of an
exaggeration...)
However, I am thinking of going with Spruce after all, as every little
bit helps, and poplar is heavier. Chaper and easier to get, but
heavier...
On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 1:21 PM, Dan Yocum wrote:
>
>
>> You can change a lot of the flight dynamics witha ANY airfoil by building
>> the Piet as light as possible, powering it up a bit, and/or by adding some
>> wingspan.
>
>
> I had the opportunity to see Ty Daniels take off at Brodhead in his Piet -
> talk about an absolute elevator! Unbelievable. He and his wife were at
> 100' within 100' of leaving the runway! I'm not exaggerating. At that
> height he nosed it over a bit to gain some extra speed to keep flying, but
> then he just kept climbing, although at a slower rate.
>
> The key is to build light light light. Ty's plane weighs 640 *with 12gal
> fuel!!*
>
> Ty's a young guy about 6'3" and 140lbs. His wife is 110lbs. He's got an
> A-65 with a McCauley climb prop of unknown pitch.
>
> For comparison, N8031 is between 710-730lbs *empty* and with just my butt in
> there I could get to 250-300' by the end of the 2400' runway.
>
> Dan
>
> --
> Dan Yocum
> Fermilab 630.840.6509
> yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
> "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
>
>
--
Mark Roberts
California Laser Etch
www.california-laser.com
888-882-5015
888-882-5016 fax
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Brodhead flybys |
| From: | "Pieti Lowell" <Lowellcfrank(at)yahoo.com> |
I saw the the landing on Friday, 3/21, When the pilot shut down his engine I walked
up to him and asked if he was aware that the yellow X meant that he was not
to land on that runway.His remark was," Is there an active runway available?"
I told him we are using 27/09, he than asked where it was. I pointed in direction
of a landing Pietenpol.I told him to do the best that he can on departure
when heading West.
Pieti Lowell
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307566#307566
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Texas TACOs to Brodhead- 2011 |
> Do you think you could bring Oscar Z. and Hans Van. with you next year.
> Those are two guys I would really like to meet=2C and two planes I have b
een
> waiting for years to see.
If you're buyin'=2C we're flyin'-! =3Bo)
> Hans & Oscar: we need to do a 3 ship next year. Celebrate your 60th=2C Os
car=2C and
> Hans' whatever. We could even pick up others enroute. They're out there.
> My legs are pretty short but when you lose patience I'd just meet you at
night.
You think your legs are short? I'd be doing good to put in a 2 or 2-1/2 hr
. leg in 41CC.
Matter of fact=2C the way I've broken up the flight plan=2C it works out in
2 hr. legs that
happen to coincide with meals and breaks. Or something. When I drive x-c
=2C I plan
for 7AM-7PM max=2C or 700 miles=2C whichever comes first. Driving across N
evada and
Arizona=2C I could really click off the miles but in the Piet headed out to
Brodhead from
Texas=2C I want to take it easy=2C stop and meet friends here and there=2C
and enjoy the
trip. So=2C more like 8 flight hrs. x 70 MPH = 560 miles per day. Give
or take.
> We could do it and it would be fun. Start thinking:).
What do you mean start thinking? I've been thinking about a trip to Brodhe
ad since
I joined this motley crew! I have all the charts=2C pencil lines drawn=2C
stops planned=2C
all of that. What I've been thinking is=2C if I were a computer whiz I cou
ld come up
with an interactive map that we could plot our flight plans on and then adj
ust as
we decided on "friendly" fields or fuel stops along the way. Other list re
aders
could add those friendly stops to the map so we could tweak flight plans to
make
intentional stops there (avoiding=2C of course=2C the black hole for hand t
ools in Oklahoma).
There are other Piets in Texas=2C too. Howard Henderson's old 444MH is dow
n in the
Rockport area=2C and there are others.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio=2C TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
>However, I am thinking of going with Spruce after all, as every little
>bit helps, and poplar is heavier. Chaper and easier to get, but
>heavier...
Actually....Jack and Chuck and I talked about this very subject when we got together
this week. I personally think you should go with spruce if at all possible....the
time it takes to get poplar or douglas fir or whatever and find the
stuff with the right number of growth rings, etc....well, I think you're better
off just going ahead and buying Spruce.
I spent a LOT of time in Lowes/Home Depot/specialty lumber yards finding just the
right pieces of Douglas Fir....and that was time I could have (and SHOULD have!)
spent building....
If I was to do it over I would go with Spruce without giving it a second thought...in
the long run it will probably not actually cost any more....
I know I wasn't asked but that's my 2 cents anyway.... :-)
jm
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Brodhead flybys |
| From: | "John Recine" <amsafetyc(at)aol.com> |
Acting like police, you got the wrong guy for that one!
I have over 35 years of professional career experience dedicated to preserving
human life as a safety professional and practicing consultant.... Police, not
hardly.
I can tell you without a doubt or hesitation safety rules come from two sources
of information
First is empirical knowledge gathered through accident investigation.
Second is proactive forecast modeling that looks at behavior and situations to
identify potential and real hazards.
Like it or not rules are designed to eliminate the acts and propagation of human
stupidity and poor choice selection.
85 percent of all accidents are caused by unsafe acts of people with the remaining
14.9999 percent attributable to unsafe conditions that too may be the action
of another. The balance is left to as acts of God.
There is a higher than normal probability that following established rules and
procedures will result in a safe and uneventful activity. Not following rules
and proven procedures have a greater probability of ending in disaster.
Hold my beer and watch this....
Safety police nope, safety professional, you bet your donkey! Student of human
behavior, absolutely!
John
Don't care if you archive or not
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: "BYD" <billsayre(at)ymail.com>
Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2010 14:23:13
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Brodhead flybys
> Cant say I buy Dan's argument that a small pattern is preferred over the 3/4
mile big fat pattern hold much creditability in my mind. Either you trust your
engines reliability and performance or you don't fly.
There are those who have and those who will. I have had two engine outs and made
it to a runway in both instances. Using your logic, I would no longer fly.
> Flying a close in pattern because you may have an engine out is no different
than the same concern for an engine out on departure or in route
Maybe it was just my training, but I was taught to fly field to field when away
from the airport and my instructor even pulled power on me occasionally to see
if I had a field picked out and to see if I could make it.
> Again just opinions, it may be something worthy of publication in the news letter
prior to the gathering, no big shakes just a reminder to the community for
the safety and sake of all in attendance.
That is an excellent recommendation. I dont wish to get hurt and Id have a tough
time living with myself if I caused major injury to someone else, so I dont
mind reviewing procedures I just get nervous when people bring up acting like
the police.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307549#307549
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Brodhead flybys |
| From: | "Baldeagle" <baldeagle27(at)earthlink.net> |
As Gene said my reason for starting this thread had little to do with the traffic
pattern for landings and take-offs, it was about the flyby pattern, or apparent
lack of one. I've been going to Brodhead fly-ins for more than 20 years,
and the flyby pattern has always been south of 9/27, a rectangular pattern with
downwind south of the hangars and flybys south of the runway, parallel and
same direction as landing aircraft. Traffic pattern was outside the flyby pattern
for 27, and opposite side of the airport for 9. Flybys are not made over
the runway so that it is kept clear for landing and taking off, avoiding confusion.
This is still set out for the September antique fly-in, and used to be
set out for the Piet fly-in, but somehow that seems to have been lost.
Another point, Brodhead during the fly-ins isn't a normal airport and often trying
to fly "your" normal pattern will in fact decrease safety by causing a conflict
with other aircraft. Instead you will have to fly a wider pattern that is
out of gliding distance from the airport to provide seperation. Would you rather
land in the corn or have a mid-air?
And speaking of making it back to the airport, I saw flybys being made downwind
at a height and speed that if the engine quit at the wrong place the Piet would've
ended up crashing into the parked aircraft or the campers, not safe in my
book. I always try to make my flybys high enough and/or fast enough so that
if she quits I can get away from the people and planes before getting to the
ground.
Incidentally the idiot in the blue Taylorcraft got a talking to from one of the
Brodhead bunch.
And no matter how good you think you are at looking for traffic, everybody misses
one sometime and the last thing the fly-in needs is a mid-air over the field.
I would just like to see the old flyby pattern used to keep things safe.
-
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307585#307585
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Traffic Patterns (was Re: Brodhead flybys) |
Well said Jack, As I have been at the reighns of a unhealthy engine myself,
I am always within gliding distance of the runway, at any point-in the p
attern, except climbout.- Pilots should always have an out, in case the a
irplane turns into a glider.-
-
Shad "Unsafe at any speed" Bell
-
Airspeed is life, altitude is life insurance, And go-arounds pay more.=0A
=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Single strand of bungee |
Kevin, are you using powdered, or cream filled, cinimon rolls are too heavy
-
Shad
--- On Wed, 8/4/10, kevinpurtee wrote:
From: kevinpurtee <kevin.purtee(at)us.army.mil>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Single strand of bungee
Date: Wednesday, August 4, 2010, 3:07 PM
il>
For those of you building per-the-plans split gear - my gear is straight ou
t of the 1932 plans (except for the wire wheels and brakes) and uses a sing
le 6' strand of bungee on each side.-
When the bungee broke on Sunday the 24th, I realized that it is a single po
int of failure.- Fortunately, the safety cable worked as designed.-
For the sake of redundancy I plan to replace the single strand system with
donuts.- An additional benefit is that donuts are easier to install.-
I'll fabricate the donuts using the neat safety wire clamp tool thingy we b
ought at oshkosh and use 1/2" bungee.- I'll test a couple of donuts to 50
0 or 600 lbs before I actually use them on the plane.- If successful, I'l
l put enough of the donuts on each side to handle a 4 or 5 G landing.
Thought about replacing the whole mess with springs but I like the rubber b
ands.-
Will let you know how it works out.
Axel
--------
Kevin Purtee
NX899KP
Austin/Georgetown, TX
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307521#307521
le, List Admin.
=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Original Air Camper & Sky Scout Builders Manual |
| From: | "j_dunavin" <j_dunavin(at)hotmail.com> |
Do I need it when I order the rest of my plans?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307594#307594
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Air Camper vs. Fly Baby |
| From: | "JGriff" <jgriffith19(at)comcast.net> |
I apologize if some of this is old and been over a million times but I'm a newbie
and trying to decide between building the Pietenpol and the Fly Baby.
Can anyone tell me any big differences in the building process between the Air
Camper and the Fly Baby? Would you consider one more difficult than the other
to build? Does anyone here have experience flying both planes? Is there any big
difference in flight characteristics? Are they about equal in cockpit size?
Is there anything else I should be thinking about in trying to decide between the
two?
Sorry for all the newbie questions but we all have to start somewhere.
:)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307599#307599
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> |
Hey All,
First off, thanks as always for the input re mixture control. I'll
definitely use it!
Secondly, I really like the idea of a hand propping seminar/demonstration
AND traffic pattern (landing and flybys) clarification (not new rules, just
restatement of the standing rules of the road) being published in the
newsletter and on the list.
I don't hear anybody here asking that Brodhead be overloaded with rules. I
DO hear people wanting the in place rules observed so everyone can be safer
and enjoy all aspects of the fly in.
I've attended Brodhead for about nine years and the traffic was noticeably
kooky this year. Maybe shouldn't let this one out as I don't want to be
shunned, but I've seen a total of seven people die in airplane crashes over
my lifetime, including two mid airs so. I would really hate to see another.
PLUS, a standard fly by pattern makes it easier for us gawkers to enjoy the
fly bys!!
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | anybody make a glass cowling? |
Has anybody out there made a glass cowling on a mold?
My new cowling design calls for lots of compound curves and if I can't get
my English wheel friend to do it, I'm going to have to build it up from
composites.
I was wondering if anybody else has done the foam mold on the nose routine
and has any advice?
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Riblett 612 or 613.5, and jigs too... |
I think it is great to see others who are very concerned with the weight of their
plane. I am a HUGE advocate for saving weight every place I can. Every little
bit adds up and it will make a difference...in take off roll, climb rate, lading
roll/speed, cruise speed, fuel consumption, etc. BUILD LIGHT! (build to
plans is optional)
Michael Perez
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Air Camper vs. Fly Baby |
| From: | "Pieti Lowell" <Lowellcfrank(at)yahoo.com> |
There are a number of us that has flown the Fly Baby and the Pietenpol, Ed Sampson.
David Zigmont and Me, The Fly Baby is as easy to build and fly as well as
the Piet, carries one passenger, not much room for extra gear, camping equipment
etc. needs less space to park and store. It has no gear absorbing capabilities
except for soft tires.And the Pietenpol can handle any engine up to 300
pounds. Its followers are not as wearied as Pietenpolers. Where in this world
can you find a bunch of craftsman that gather together to a migration area such
as Brodhead each year. I have been to the point of the gathering each year ,
with a Pietenpol every year since the mid 70s, nor I can not stay on the subject
very long without drifting toward a great bunch of helpful guys that can answer
any question a builder has to ask, regarding the Pietenpol, nor get valuable
ideas,fixtures etc. etc.
Pieti Lowell
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307605#307605
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Original Air Camper & Sky Scout Builders Manual |
Its not really a necessity. It mostly contains the text from the two
F&G Manual reprints, so if you have those you could bypass it. However
it does contain a section of building hints, a write-up on mods for
Pietenpol's Corvair conversion (including changes to the airframe),
and a section of answers to FAQ. I picked up a copy when I bought our
plans, and I'm glad I did. It's a neat thing to have. You should
either give the manual or the F&G Manual reprints a read though...
The important thing to do is to just buy the plans so you can start
building! You haven't really gotten going with anything if you still
haven't even bought the plans yet. :)
Ryan
Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 5, 2010, at 6:26 AM, "j_dunavin" wrote:
>
> Do I need it when I order the rest of my plans?
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307594#307594
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Willis <timothywillis(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Air Camper vs. Fly Baby |
Apples-to-oranges, except for ease of build and low cost. The Flybaby is single
place and has a low wing. Trying to make it 2-place or a biplane as some have
done makes a good plane very much worse. Read Flybaby sites and see for yourself.
IMO, if you are flying low and slow, you want to see the ground, and a high wing
is better for that. If you build without a wing cutout, with a high wing Piet
you get shade. Here in TX I like that. In MN or WI, for instance, no BFD.
The Flybaby is faster than the Piet. It is no cross-country machine, though, for
it has short range with its standard tank. Check that out for yourself, for
that is from memory on me.
I looked at the Zenith 601 and Flybaby before the Piet, then chose the Piet for
its 2-place capability, simple hardware, and variety of engines and LG. Discovering
the Pietenpol community was a big, big plus. For me, my choice looks
better and better over time.
Tim in central TX
-----Original Message-----
>From: JGriff <jgriffith19(at)comcast.net>
>Sent: Aug 5, 2010 6:54 AM
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Air Camper vs. Fly Baby
>
>
>I apologize if some of this is old and been over a million times but I'm a newbie
and trying to decide between building the Pietenpol and the Fly Baby.
>Can anyone tell me any big differences in the building process between the Air
Camper and the Fly Baby? Would you consider one more difficult than the other
to build? Does anyone here have experience flying both planes? Is there any big
difference in flight characteristics? Are they about equal in cockpit size?
>
>Is there anything else I should be thinking about in trying to decide between
the two?
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Air Camper vs. Fly Baby |
| From: | "JGriff" <jgriffith19(at)comcast.net> |
Just from my limited research so far Ive been very impressed with the sense of
community and support the Pietenpol group has.
I havent looked closely yet at the Air Camper drawings is there even room for
extra gear? Probably a stupid question considering it is an Air CAMPER but what
kind of actual baggage space is there?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307612#307612
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Air Camper vs. Fly Baby |
J,
It depends on how you build it. As designed, for a model A Ford, there
is no baggage space. With a Continental engine and the fuel tank in the
centersection of the wing, there is space for a good sized baggage
compartment between the front cockpit and the firewall.
Conversely, if you have a fuselage tank, you can carry some baggage
between the spars in the centersection, as Mike Cuy does.
One of the beauties of the Pietenpol design is that you can customize it
to suit yourself and your personal needs.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of JGriff
Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 9:03 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Air Camper vs. Fly Baby
Just from my limited research so far I=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2ve been
very impressed with the sense of community and support the Pietenpol
group has.
I haven=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2t looked closely yet at the Air Camper
drawings =C3=A2=82=AC=9C is there even room for extra gear?
Probably a stupid question considering it is an Air CAMPER but what kind
of actual baggage space is there?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307612#307612
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Air Camper vs. Fly Baby |
| From: | Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com> |
Not much, but there are solutions. If you put the tank in the wing you can
use the area between the firewall and the front cockpit panel for baggage.
If you put the tank in the fuselage you can the use space in the center
section for baggage. You can lengthen the baggage space under the turtledec
k
aft, but you're looking at more of a "glove box" there than an actual
baggage compartment, per the size and CG limitations of storing anything fa
r
aft.
But if you are comparing to the Fly Baby, then of course there's
plenty....since you have an entire front cockpit for hauling stuff, if you
are by yourself. Of course with the Fly Baby you are always by yourself, an
d
you have no other option.
Ryan
On Thu, Aug 5, 2010 at 8:03 AM, JGriff wrote:
>
> Just from my limited research so far I=92ve been very impressed with the
> sense of community and support the Pietenpol group has.
>
> I haven=92t looked closely yet at the Air Camper drawings ' is there ev
en
> room for extra gear? Probably a stupid question considering it is an Air
> CAMPER but what kind of actual baggage space is there?
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307612#307612
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RAMPEYBOY(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Air Camper vs. Fly Baby |
I'm not building either one, but follow closely as they are both neat
aircraft. From what I have learned the FB requires you to make some laminated
pieces(wingtip bows, etc), which isn't that big of a deal from what I am
told, but still intimidates me a little.
It is a single seater which obviously limits you to flying by
yourself, but also when you want to carry "stuff" you have little room to put
stuff. The FB community has a guy Ron Wantajja? sorry don't remember the
spelling who is really involved, and does a lot for the type. His web site has
tons of information and really got me interested in the type. Even if you build
a Piet, there is info there on the Continentals I think that may be of
interest to you. I think all in all it is a great aircraft. One thing that
bothers me is the few that have lost a wing. Those aircraft have all been
documented as having some problem that caused the wing loss. Meaning it could
have been prevented either with proper build/maintenance or reducing pilot
error. For me though, being relatively uneducated on the type, knowing the
differences in the build methods, and such is too risky.
The Piet on the other hand, to my knowledge has no history of any such
failures?? That and being a two seater would be enough to sway me to favor
the Piet. Also, the Piet community seems to be much larger. With numbers,
naturally there is more help, and experience. Neither plane is really great
for cross country cause they're just not fast, and range is limited. Both
planes are cool as all get out. Both are relatively inexpensive. To me,
which do you like better, and which are you more comfortable building/flying?
Boyce
building Mustang II
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Air Camper vs. Fly Baby |
| From: | "Pieti Lowell" <Lowellcfrank(at)yahoo.com> |
The last trip to The Pietenpol fly-in, I carried the following. 22 gal of fuel,two
passengers, 2 sleeping bags 2 packed bags for 2, tool/ spare parts 30 Lbs,
tent, 5 quarts oil, 2 gal H2O.
Keep in mind that I have the short Piet with 612 wing. Clipped 2 Ft.
This very same Piet I have flown with three wing foils, 4 engines. from a Ford
to a Werner(347 Lbs plus 3 gal of oil)With no wing position change.
The Piet will take a 250 Lb passenger or with wing position change a 300 Lb Pilot
and a small weight passenger.
Pieti Lowell
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307623#307623
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Air Camper vs. Fly Baby |
| From: | "JGriff" <jgriffith19(at)comcast.net> |
You guys are making a real strong case. Ive been looking at the build manual for
the FB and have been pretty impressed with the clarity and the step by step
process. Is the Pietenpol AC build manual like that? I saw another thread about
the AC build manual and it sounded like it is a little vaguer.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307626#307626
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: anybody make a glass cowling? |
| From: | "kevinpurtee" <kevin.purtee(at)us.army.mil> |
Hans Vander Voort did his nose section out of fiberglass.
--------
Kevin Purtee
NX899KP
Austin/Georgetown, TX
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307628#307628
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Texas TACOs to Brodhead- 2011 |
| From: | "kevinpurtee" <kevin.purtee(at)us.army.mil> |
Took me 3.5 days both ways, even with good winds. In both cases there was a one
day delay due to weather or in-laws. I plan on two 400 mile days and one 300
mile day. Given my stock fuel tank and corvair burn rate I don't go very far
between fuel stops. Several people have suggested an add-on extended range
fuel system (red can with hand pump, perhaps). I might do that. An extra 30
minutes would be about perfect. Anyway, like I mentioned before, if you get sick
of waiting for me I'll meet you at night.
So, barring some unpredicted interference from work, I'm going next year and would
love to join up with as many TX/OK/KS/MO/IA/WI piets as we can pick up along
the way.
You out there Hans?
--------
Kevin Purtee
NX899KP
Austin/Georgetown, TX
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307632#307632
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Yocum <yocum(at)fnal.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: anybody make a glass cowling? |
Douwe,
Ben Charvet has a glass cowling. It's really slick looking, too.
Dan
On 08/05/2010 07:09 AM, Douwe Blumberg wrote:
> Has anybody out there made a glass cowling on a mold?
>
> My new cowling design calls for lots of compound curves and if I cant
> get my English wheel friend to do it, Im going to have to build it up
> from composites.
>
> I was wondering if anybody else has done the foam mold on the nose
> routine and has any advice?
--
Dan Yocum
Fermilab 630.840.6509
yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Ruse <steve(at)wotelectronics.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Texas TACOs to Brodhead- 2011 |
I'm in Norman, OK, so I'm right in line with you guys from further
south. And I'm actually from TX so you don't have to hold being and
okie against me. If you guys need a place to stay in central OK, I
could put a few Piets in a hangar overnight (at 1k4 or O44) and give
you a bed. With some luck I'd even join you for the trip.
Kevin, I was standing beside you for a little while at Oshkosh,
looking at your plane and listening to you talk to someone else,
unfortunately you got away before I could say hi. Maybe next year!
Very nice plane, I sat and marveled at your wood struts and
leatherwork for a long time! What is your IAS? I'm straining to get
70mph. I make it down to the DFW area in mine on occasion, we should
get together sometime.
Heading up there with one or two Piets would be an absolute blast.
Last year I did over 9hrs in one day coming home in my GN-1. What a
fun trip. I made it from central OK to Oshkosh in about 21hrs (left
around 2 in the afternoon, arrived at OSH around 11AM the next day).
Return trip was about 24hrs trip time, 12 flight hours, left during
the airshow at around 2PM, arrived in OK around 3PM the next day.
Round trip was 25hrs flight time. Slept in my tent or on FBO couches.
Steve Ruse
Norman, OK
Quoting kevinpurtee :
>
>
> Took me 3.5 days both ways, even with good winds. In both cases
> there was a one day delay due to weather or in-laws. I plan on two
> 400 mile days and one 300 mile day. Given my stock fuel tank and
> corvair burn rate I don't go very far between fuel stops. Several
> people have suggested an add-on extended range fuel system (red can
> with hand pump, perhaps). I might do that. An extra 30 minutes
> would be about perfect. Anyway, like I mentioned before, if you get
> sick of waiting for me I'll meet you at night.
>
> So, barring some unpredicted interference from work, I'm going next
> year and would love to join up with as many TX/OK/KS/MO/IA/WI piets
> as we can pick up along the way.
>
> You out there Hans?
>
> --------
> Kevin Purtee
> NX899KP
> Austin/Georgetown, TX
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307632#307632
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Builders/Pietenpols in the Northeast? |
| From: | "dgaldrich" <dgaldrich(at)embarqmail.com> |
Hi Jamie
I'm in Belfast, ME (KBST) and have ribs, tail feathers and fuselage sides done
if you want to drop by. Not much but you can see how they relate to the plans.
Dave Aldrich
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307641#307641
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Brodhead flybys |
| From: | "BYD" <billsayre(at)ymail.com> |
In reviewing the original message, this post has indeed been hijacked. My apologies
to the group for my portion of that result.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307648#307648
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Builders/Pietenpols in the Northeast? |
| From: | "coxwelljon" <coxwelljon(at)frontiernet.net> |
I am in Remsen NY and I am completing a GN-1 aircamper that I bought.
Fuselage done and nearly ready for cover, wings done and one covered, tail surfaces
done and covered. I would be happy to let your look at my project.
Jon Coxwell
--------
Jon Coxwell
GN-1 Builder
Recycle and preserve the planet
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307650#307650
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Texas TACOs to Brodhead- 2011 |
| From: | Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
How large is your fuel tank Kevin?
rick
On Thu, Aug 5, 2010 at 8:31 AM, kevinpurtee wrote:
> kevin.purtee(at)us.army.mil>
>
> Took me 3.5 days both ways, even with good winds. In both cases there was
> a one day delay due to weather or in-laws. I plan on two 400 mile days and
> one 300 mile day. Given my stock fuel tank and corvair burn rate I don't go
> very far between fuel stops. Several people have suggested an add-on
> extended range fuel system (red can with hand pump, perhaps). I might do
> that. An extra 30 minutes would be about perfect. Anyway, like I mentioned
> before, if you get sick of waiting for me I'll meet you at night.
>
> So, barring some unpredicted interference from work, I'm going next year
> and would love to join up with as many TX/OK/KS/MO/IA/WI piets as we can
> pick up along the way.
>
> You out there Hans?
>
> --------
> Kevin Purtee
> NX899KP
> Austin/Georgetown, TX
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307632#307632
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Builders/Pietenpols in the Northeast? |
| From: | "JGriff" <jgriffith19(at)comcast.net> |
Thanks Jon and Dave. Hopefully I can find something a bit closer to Boston but
if I can't maybe I'll take you up on your offers and fly out to check out the
project.
Thanks.
Jamie
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307657#307657
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ben Charvet <bencharvet(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Glass Cowling Pics |
Hi Douwe,
I made my cowling from polyester resin/fiberglass. I had a Continental
core crankcase that I bolted to the motor mount, with a PVC pipe
extension for where the prop flange would end up. I made a few frames
of plywood to get the general shape I wanted. I also mounted the
carbureter and airbox and put a frame on the front of the airbox to
simulate where the Bracket air filter would end up. I didn't want my
carb/air filter/airbox hanging below the cowling. Next I stapled/wired
lath screen to my frame and around the firewall. This was followed by
about a month of adding a coat of drywall mud, sanding, adding more mud,
and more sanding. I used a long block to sand it. I was able to get a
nice compound curve on the top of the cowl as I hope you can see from
the pictures. The air cleaner is also nicely faired into the bottom of
the cowl. After the male plug mold was to my satisfaction, I varnished
it, then gave it a couple of coats of paste was as a mold release. I
covered it with 2 and sometimes 3 layers of fiberglass cloth, then
coated the entire thing with a thin coat of automotive bondo, then
blocked it out with multiple steps until I was satisfied. I split it in
two to make upper and lower halves using an angle grinder, then peeled
it slowly and carefully away from the mold. The mold was destroyed in
the process.
All together this took 2 months of pretty steady evening work. I used
nearly 2 buckets of drywall mud, and had to weight the tail to keep it
from nosing over. I'm really happy with the result, and unless I had
access to an english wheel, I'd do it the same way again.
Ben
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Glass Cowling Pics |
Ben how much does your beautiful cowling weigh??
Brian
SLC-UT
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ben
Charvet
Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 12:47 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Glass Cowling Pics
Hi Douwe,
I made my cowling from polyester resin/fiberglass. I had a Continental
core crankcase that I bolted to the motor mount, with a PVC pipe
extension for where the prop flange would end up. I made a few frames
of plywood to get the general shape I wanted. I also mounted the
carbureter and airbox and put a frame on the front of the airbox to
simulate where the Bracket air filter would end up. I didn't want my
carb/air filter/airbox hanging below the cowling. Next I stapled/wired
lath screen to my frame and around the firewall. This was followed by
about a month of adding a coat of drywall mud, sanding, adding more mud,
and more sanding. I used a long block to sand it. I was able to get a
nice compound curve on the top of the cowl as I hope you can see from
the pictures. The air cleaner is also nicely faired into the bottom of
the cowl. After the male plug mold was to my satisfaction, I varnished
it, then gave it a couple of coats of paste was as a mold release. I
covered it with 2 and sometimes 3 layers of fiberglass cloth, then
coated the entire thing with a thin coat of automotive bondo, then
blocked it out with multiple steps until I was satisfied. I split it in
two to make upper and lower halves using an angle grinder, then peeled
it slowly and carefully away from the mold. The mold was destroyed in
the process.
All together this took 2 months of pretty steady evening work. I used
nearly 2 buckets of drywall mud, and had to weight the tail to keep it
from nosing over. I'm really happy with the result, and unless I had
access to an english wheel, I'd do it the same way again.
Ben
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Texas TACOs to Brodhead- 2011 |
| From: | hvandervoo(at)aol.com |
Yep. I am out here.
Just read up on 165 emails.
Wish I had the time to do what you did, a great adventure.
Good to see you made it home safe.
Perhaps I'll join next year,but vacation days are scarce.
Planning for Reklaw in October. http://www.reklawflyin.com/
Keep Flying.
Hans
NX15KV
Waller, TX
-----Original Message-----
From: kevinpurtee <kevin.purtee(at)us.army.mil>
Sent: Thu, Aug 5, 2010 9:31 am
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Texas TACOs to Brodhead- 2011
mil>
Took me 3.5 days both ways, even with good winds. In both cases there was
a one
ay delay due to weather or in-laws. I plan on two 400 mile days and one
300
ile day. Given my stock fuel tank and corvair burn rate I don't go very
far
etween fuel stops. Several people have suggested an add-on extended range
fuel
ystem (red can with hand pump, perhaps). I might do that. An extra 30 mi
nutes
ould be about perfect. Anyway, like I mentioned before, if you get sick
of
aiting for me I'll meet you at night.
So, barring some unpredicted interference from work, I'm going next year
and
ould love to join up with as many TX/OK/KS/MO/IA/WI piets as we can pick
up
long the way.
You out there Hans?
--------
evin Purtee
X899KP
ustin/Georgetown, TX
ead this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307632#307632
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________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Glass Cowling Pics |
| From: | "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca> |
Just looking at the first photo.
That thing looks like a dog's rear-end... but your cowling looks quite nice. :)
BC
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307697#307697
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Texas TACOs to Brodhead- 2011 |
| From: | "kevinpurtee" <kevin.purtee(at)us.army.mil> |
Hi Steve - Sorry I missed you. The joy and the sorrow of Brodhead and Oshkosh
was seeing so many folks but not getting to spend enough quality time.
I cruise (legitimately, per GPS) at 75 mph.
I'll meet you in Decatur, west of dallas for lunch any weekend that's convenient
for us. That's about 100 miles for you and 150 for me.
I'd really enjoy being in a flight of texas piets swinging by to pick you up next
year!
Hi Rick - fuel tank is per the plans. When I first filled it it took 11 gallons.
9.5 flowed out at climb attitude. I burn ~5.5 gph depending on weight and
speed. That's 1.7 hours until flame out and 1.2 until reserves (is that right
CFIs? Have trouble remembering between faa and army). Anyway, that gives me
90 mile legs with no winds. I plan 70-80 miles to be on the safe side. It's
a lot of stops and a pain in the butt. I do not deny it. I would like to have
3 more gallons. May try to rig that up for long trips.
Hi Hans - Would love to have you, man!
--------
Kevin Purtee
NX899KP
Austin/Georgetown, TX
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307698#307698
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Cardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: anybody make a glass cowling? |
Ken Heide, who is on this list, has the mold to make fiberglass cowls
for the Corvair powered Pietenpols.
He can be reached at:
kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com
Greg C.
----- Original Message -----
From: Douwe Blumberg
To: pietenpolgroup
Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 7:09 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: anybody make a glass cowling?
Has anybody out there made a glass cowling on a mold?
My new cowling design calls for lots of compound curves and if I can't
get my English wheel friend to do it, I'm going to have to build it up
from composites.
I was wondering if anybody else has done the foam mold on the nose
routine and has any advice?
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ALAN LYSCARS" <alyscars(at)myfairpoint.net> |
| Subject: | Re: First visit to a Pietenpoler |
Welcome, Curtis, back to the land of the living.
Al Lyscars
Manchester, NH
----- Original Message -----
From: Piet2112
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 10:48 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: First visit to a Pietenpoler
Today I got finally see in person what I am attempting to build. I
went and saw Alex Whitmore's 1975 Model A Air Camper NX12969. What a
treat it was to actually sit in one and pick the brain of someone who
has owned, fixed and flown several different configurations.
It has been about 15 years since I've been involved in the GA
community and now I know what I've been missing. There is more to life
than the internet. Thanks Alex for letting me explore your plane.
Curtis Merdan
Flower Mound, TX
Tail Feathers being fluffed
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307423#307423
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | The Glide-O-Bike |
| From: | "Paul N. Peckham" <peckham9(at)countryspeed.com> |
Ok, for all you guys who have been pining away all these years, wanting your own flying bike just like Michael Cuy's, check this out: http://www.plan59.com/av/av446a.htm
It will bank, loop, stall, and even side-slip! I bet you could even sprain your
ankle with it. Lawyers would have a field day with this one. Enjoy.
Paul
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307713#307713
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: anybody make a glass cowling? |
Dad made his out of fiberglass, just start carving a styrofoam block to the
shape you want, and lay it up.- Cut the holes where they need to be, the
n fit the aluminum up to the nose bowl.
-
It's almost that simple,
-
Shad=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Differences between GN-1 and regular Piet? |
| From: | "coxwelljon" <coxwelljon(at)frontiernet.net> |
I agree with all that has been said which pretty well covers the differences, but
will add a couple of observations.
I am building a GN-1 (completing someone elses project), but have both the plans
for a it and a Piet. I refer to both often. I think the wing attach fittings
are different on the GN-1 and the 3 piece wing is standard for the GN-1. The
GN-1s are noted for being heavier not including the engine. The airfoil is
different and is touted as a modified Piet airfoil. The spars are in a different
location which allows for a slightly deeper front spar. The leading edge
is less sharp which is supposed to allow for a gentler stall. Mine is a wood
fuselage and my plans show both wood and steel. The wood plans call for plywood
clear to the tail. I flew in a GN-1 at Broadhead with a wood fuselage and
a front door. My wood plans do not show a door but the steel plans do. The
rudder horns attach differently on the GN-1 and it had the leaf spring tailwheel
as standard using a cub tailwheel.
I am making changes to mine based on the good things I find in both Piet and GN-1
plans. The rear instrument panel is quite close on the GN-1 and I have modified
that. I am taking out weight where ever I can. Mine will have a Piet style
tail wheel similar to the tail skid to lighten up the tail and move the weight
forward approx. 12" I am re-routing the elev. control cables to avoid the
rubbing on the elevator in the full down position. I will add a front door
to mine after seeing Dale Mcclesky's at Broadhead. The structure will probably
be of my own design. Mine will fly with a corvair engine. I think Grega had
some good ideas but a lot of his hand drawn plans are nearly a direct copy
of the Piet plans. I would say it is a first cousin to the Piet.
I have Grega's hand drawn plans but his son had them produced on CAD a couple of
years ago and then completely quit selling them or supporting them. I have
heard some rumor that there were mistakes on the CAD plans and he may have backed
away because of liability. This forum is about the best support for the GN-1
that there is, as there are a lot of GN-1 builders on here.
Jon Coxwell
--------
Jon Coxwell
GN-1 Builder
Recycle and preserve the planet
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307734#307734
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "TriScout" <apfelcyber(at)yahoo.com> |
Thank Guys..
I've been watching Barnstormers. I'll be monitoring this site as well incase something
crops up.
Ler
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307743#307743
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Yocum <yocum(at)fnal.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: Single strand of bungee |
Kevin,
Did that 1/8" cable actually hold?
When the prior owner of N8031 redid the bungees the 1/8" cable broke
when he released the last wrap. Luckily, the plane was blocked up under
the fuselage, so no damage was done. He replaced the safety cable with
3/16" or 1/4" cable. Something pretty sturdy.
Dan
On 08/04/2010 04:49 PM, kevinpurtee wrote:
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "kevinpurtee"
>
> Rick - I just wrapped a piece of 1/8 control cable around the two bungee retaining
tubes and swaged it. I zip tie it up out of the way for aesthetics.
--
Dan Yocum
Fermilab 630.840.6509
yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ben Charvet <bencharvet(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Glass Cowling Pics |
I never actually weighed it. I'm sure it weighs between 5 and 10
pounds, but I needed the weight on the nose anyway.
Ben
On 8/5/2010 3:15 PM, brian.e.jardine@l-3com.com wrote:
>
> Ben how much does your beautiful cowling weigh??
>
> Brian
>
> SLC-UT
>
> *From:* owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Ben
> Charvet
> *Sent:* Thursday, August 05, 2010 12:47 PM
> *To:* Pietenpol list
> *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: Glass Cowling Pics
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ben Charvet <bencharvet(at)gmail.com> |
I think this is the nicest Piet cowling I've ever seen. Anybody know
whose it is?
Ben Charvet
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Glass Cowlings |
Randy Bruce (according to the lettering on the side: Captain Buck Nekkd) built
it but he doesn't own it any more. A real artist/craftsman and quite a character.
Now lives over by Larry Williams in Arkansas....
He's a good guy and would probably be glad to explain how he did the cowling.
jm
-----Original Message-----
>From: Ben Charvet <bencharvet(at)gmail.com>
>Sent: Aug 6, 2010 7:47 AM
>To: pietenpol list
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Glass Cowlings
>
>I think this is the nicest Piet cowling I've ever seen. Anybody know
>whose it is?
>
>Ben Charvet
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ben Charvet <bencharvet(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Texas TACOs to Brodhead- 2011 |
At least you have electric start...
Ben
>
> Hi Rick - fuel tank is per the plans. When I first filled it it took 11 gallons.
9.5 flowed out at climb attitude. I burn ~5.5 gph depending on weight and
speed. That's 1.7 hours until flame out and 1.2 until reserves (is that right
CFIs? Have trouble remembering between faa and army). Anyway, that gives
me 90 mile legs with no winds. I plan 70-80 miles to be on the safe side. It's
a lot of stops and a pain in the butt. I do not deny it. I would like to
have 3 more gallons. May try to rig that up for long trips.
>
> Hi Hans - Would love to have you, man!
>
> --------
> Kevin Purtee
> NX899KP
> Austin/Georgetown, TX
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Glass Cowlings |
| From: | Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com> |
It now belongs to a gentleman named Eddie Wojtecki in Stratford, Ontario,
having been imported from the US. It was N28LT, and now wears the
registration C-GLPA:
http://www.airport-data.com/aircraft/C-GLPA.html
http://www.recreationalflying.net/forum/just-landed/46272-just-landed.html
Bill Church photographed it at the Brussels fly-in in '07:
http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoGalleryList2.cfm?AlbumID=314
And a few more shots @ WestCoastPiet:
http://www.westcoastpiet.com/new_page_47.htm
For what it's worth. :P
Ryan
On Fri, Aug 6, 2010 at 8:02 AM, Jim Markle wrote:
> jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
>
> Randy Bruce (according to the lettering on the side: Captain Buck Nekkd)
> built it but he doesn't own it any more. A real artist/craftsman and quite
> a character.
>
> Now lives over by Larry Williams in Arkansas....
>
> He's a good guy and would probably be glad to explain how he did the
> cowling.
>
> jm
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> >From: Ben Charvet <bencharvet(at)gmail.com>
> >Sent: Aug 6, 2010 7:47 AM
> >To: pietenpol list
> >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Glass Cowlings
> >
> >I think this is the nicest Piet cowling I've ever seen. Anybody know
> >whose it is?
> >
> >Ben Charvet
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Single strand of bungee |
| From: | "kevinpurtee" <kevin.purtee(at)us.army.mil> |
Hi Dan - yeah, it held. Probably a wise idea to increase the size of the cable,
though, particularly for people using the single length of bungee.
Kevin
--------
Kevin Purtee
NX899KP
Austin/Georgetown, TX
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307770#307770
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Texas/Oklahoma Piets, Reklaw and Critter's Lodge |
Critter's Lodge? Hey, now-! That one is about an hour
closer to me than Reklaw and a month earlier in the year.
I'm going to investigate!
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Texas/Oklahoma Piets, Reklaw and Critter's Lodge |
| From: | "kevinpurtee" <kevin.purtee(at)us.army.mil> |
Oscar, Hans and Any Other Interested Parties - Here's what I know:
website - http://critterslodge.org/
dates 24-26 Sep, rain date 10/1
airport TE01
I've got camping spots 25, 26 & 27 for me and two other friends. If you decide
to camp it'd be neat if you could get near those spots. It's $5. If you get
in touch with him now that should improve your chances for site selection.
If you'll let me know for sure what your plans are as we get closer Shelley will
provision to feed you.
And you can still do Reklaw:)
Kevin
--------
Kevin Purtee
NX899KP
Austin/Georgetown, TX
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307782#307782
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Willis <timothywillis(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Texas/Oklahoma Piets, Reklaw and Critter's Lodge |
Sorry, this was on the 2nd page. It explains all.
-----Original Message-----
>From: kevinpurtee <kevin.purtee(at)us.army.mil>
>Sent: Aug 6, 2010 12:15 PM
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Texas/Oklahoma Piets, Reklaw and Critter's Lodge
>
>
>Oscar, Hans and Any Other Interested Parties - Here's what I know:
>
>website - http://critterslodge.org/
>dates 24-26 Sep, rain date 10/1
>airport TE01
>
>I've got camping spots 25, 26 & 27 for me and two other friends. If you decide
to camp it'd be neat if you could get near those spots. It's $5. If you get
in touch with him now that should improve your chances for site selection.
>
>If you'll let me know for sure what your plans are as we get closer Shelley will
provision to feed you.
>
>And you can still do Reklaw:)
>
>Kevin
>
>--------
>Kevin Purtee
>NX899KP
>Austin/Georgetown, TX
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307782#307782
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Air Camper vs. Fly Baby |
| From: | "j_dunavin" <j_dunavin(at)hotmail.com> |
> The last trip to The Pietenpol fly-in, I carried the following. 22 gal of fuel,two
passengers, 2 sleeping bags 2 packed bags for 2, tool/ spare parts 30 Lbs,
tent, 5 quarts oil, 2 gal H2O.
> Keep in mind that I have the short Piet with 612 wing. Clipped 2 Ft.
> This very same Piet I have flown with three wing foils, 4 engines. from a Ford
to a Werner(347 Lbs plus 3 gal of oil)With no wing position change.
> The Piet will take a 250 Lb passenger or with wing position change a 300 Lb Pilot
and a small weight passenger.
> Pieti Lowell
Wow Lowell
All that in a Pietenpol? Which engine do you have?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307791#307791
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <r.r.hall(at)cox.net> |
I don't know where you are locaed but there is a guy in Virginia with a banged
up GN-1. I think I saw it on Barnstormers.
Rodney Hall
---- TriScout wrote:
>
> Thank Guys..
>
> I've been watching Barnstormers. I'll be monitoring this site as well incase
something crops up.
>
> Ler
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307743#307743
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Air Camper vs. Fly Baby |
| From: | "Pieti Lowell" <Lowellcfrank(at)yahoo.com> |
I now am using a Ford B swinging a Lambert wood prop 76 X 47 at 2200 RPM.
The front cockpit of the Pietenpol has a large cubic feet of space. Plus ,with
a passenger her lap can accommodate two sleeping bags, her feet are resting on
the tool bag and behind it is the tent .A very uncomfortable ride for a passenger.I
only need to fly 40 miles to Brodhead. Most of the times she returns either
Via auto or other means, I guess that is the reason that no passengers return
to Palmyra with me.
I have no controls in the front cockpit area, giving more usable space
The fuel is in the wing center section and front cowl area. Extra oil is used in
the Ford pan And of course we all know where the 2 gal of water is stored.
A new designed radiator will allow more area for cooling and 10 square feet of
wing area for better lifting heavy loads.
Also-- for those that think that the impossible is impossible I am installing a
Ford starting device that requires no electrical circuits and will be activated
while the pilot is in the cockpit, and without hand prop assistance.
By the way heavy loads test the landing gear, either vertical or horizontal as
we find out very quickly.
Pieti Lowell
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307815#307815
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Air Camper vs. Fly Baby |
| From: | Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com> |
You didn't account for the two packed bags for two yet... ;)
Ryan
On Fri, Aug 6, 2010 at 7:02 PM, Pieti Lowell wrote:
> Lowellcfrank(at)yahoo.com>
>
> I now am using a Ford B swinging a Lambert wood prop 76 X 47 at 2200 RPM.
> The front cockpit of the Pietenpol has a large cubic feet of space. Plus
> ,with a passenger her lap can accommodate two sleeping bags, her feet are
> resting on the tool bag and behind it is the tent .A very uncomfortable ride
> for a passenger.I only need to fly 40 miles to Brodhead. Most of the times
> she returns either Via auto or other means, I guess that is the reason that
> no passengers return to Palmyra with me.
> I have no controls in the front cockpit area, giving more usable space
> The fuel is in the wing center section and front cowl area. Extra oil is
> used in the Ford pan And of course we all know where the 2 gal of water is
> stored.
> A new designed radiator will allow more area for cooling and 10 square feet
> of wing area for better lifting heavy loads.
> Also-- for those that think that the impossible is impossible I am
> installing a Ford starting device that requires no electrical circuits and
> will be activated while the pilot is in the cockpit, and without hand prop
> assistance.
> By the way heavy loads test the landing gear, either vertical or horizontal
> as we find out very quickly.
> Pieti Lowell
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307815#307815
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Air Camper vs. Fly Baby |
| From: | "Pieti Lowell" <Lowellcfrank(at)yahoo.com> |
Sorry Ryan, they are stowed on the top of the tent and tool bag , with a little
room above, up to the fuel tank, she keeps them in place with her feet pushing
forward.
Check with the Pietenpolie Girl, she is the front passenger, If verification is
required, you must donate a small amount of cash for a T-Shirt that will be available
soon for her collage,ME. Degree.
Pieti Lowell
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307830#307830
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lawrence Williams <lnawms(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Brodhead weigh in |
Just curious about posts early last month regarding someone bringing scales for
a mass weigh-in at Brodhead. Did it happen?
Larry Williams xcg, xcmr, epp
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | airlion <airlion(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Brodhead weigh in |
Yes, William wynne of corvair.com brought scales for the brodhead fly in and
weighed a bunch of planes.
________________________________
From: Lawrence Williams <lnawms(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Sat, August 7, 2010 4:40:20 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead weigh in
Just curious about posts early last month regarding someone bringing scales for
a mass weigh-in at Brodhead. Did it happen?
Larry Williams xcg, xcmr, epp
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "skellytown flyer" <skellflyer1(at)yahoo.com> |
after reading the posts about the fly-bys at Brodhead I am wondering how hard it
is to hear radio traffic if you wear headsets in these things. I am sure a lot
og guys don't use radios but I plan on having a handheld in mine when I'm flying
into strange of congested airports and I just use an old hushacom headset.
it is difficult to hear much and impossible to talk over it unless I throttle
back in my 2 stroke Challenger-it wasn't that bad in the old Tri-pacer.and
since I have short stacks on the Corvair running out the sides it may be as bad.but
wondering how many of you actually can hear radio transmissions in these
planes without throttling back? Raymond
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307883#307883
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | H RULE <harvey.rule(at)rogers.com> |
As long as you keep your head behind the wind screen or shield and crouch a
=0Alittle lower you can hear and talk.I use a hand held with a push to tal
k =0Abutton-and I have-the radio-hung by a bracket at my right side j
ust inside the =0Acockpit.One day I almost lost the earphones because I put
it on after I had put =0Athe goggles on instead of the other way around.I
find the goggles hold them on =0Avery nicely but stick your head around the
windshield and everything tries to =0Acome off.Learn as you go.=0A=0A=0A
=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: skellytown flyer <skellflyer
1(at)yahoo.com>=0ATo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Sat, August 7, 2010
7:16:00 PM=0ASubject: Pietenpol-List: noise=0A=0A--> Pietenpol-List messag
e posted by: "skellytown flyer" =0A=0Aafter reading
the posts about the fly-bys at Brodhead I am wondering how hard it =0Ais to
hear radio traffic if you wear headsets in these things. I am sure a lot
=0Aog guys don't use radios but I plan on having a handheld in mine when I'
m flying =0Ainto strange of congested airports and I just use an old hushac
om headset. it is =0Adifficult to hear much and impossible to talk over it
unless I throttle back in =0Amy 2 stroke Challenger-it wasn't that bad in t
he old Tri-pacer.and since I have =0Ashort stacks on the Corvair running ou
t the sides it may be as bad.but wondering =0Ahow many of you actually can
hear radio transmissions in these planes without =0Athrottling back? Raymon
d=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.c
-========================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Silvius" <silvius(at)gwi.net> |
| Subject: | Piet Sighting at Norridgewock Maine |
This one built in 1988 by Tom Fahy of Carrabassett Valley Maine
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ben Charvet <bencharvet(at)gmail.com> |
In my experience a good leather helmet to go with your headset makes a
difference. I don't have a shielded harness on my ignition system, but
I can still hear radio transmissions OK with my handheld. I have just 4
straight stacks, 12 inches long. As Harvey said, it also helps a lot to
stay low behind your windshield (why Bernard built the seat backs so
upright), and sometimes I cup my hand over the microphone when
transmitting just to keep the wind noise down on my transmissions.
Ben Charvet
Mims, Fl
On 8/7/2010 7:16 PM, skellytown flyer wrote:
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "skellytown flyer"
>
> after reading the posts about the fly-bys at Brodhead I am wondering how hard
it is to hear radio traffic if you wear headsets in these things. I am sure a
lot og guys don't use radios but I plan on having a handheld in mine when I'm
flying into strange of congested airports and I just use an old hushacom headset.
it is difficult to hear much and impossible to talk over it unless I throttle
back in my 2 stroke Challenger-it wasn't that bad in the old Tri-pacer.and
since I have short stacks on the Corvair running out the sides it may be as
bad.but wondering how many of you actually can hear radio transmissions in these
planes without throttling back? Raymond
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307883#307883
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "skellytown flyer" <skellflyer1(at)yahoo.com> |
Thanks that's good to know. I'm hoping that the Corvair engine might not create
as much radio interference because of the carbon plug wires but time will tell.I
expect the prop blast pretty much cancels out the exhaust noise in the cockpit.I
sure hope to get first hand experience in a couple of months.I got a few
more small items knocked out today.gotta make a better carb heat muff for the
exhaust because I didn't leave a lot of room when I made my cowling but once
that's done and a few more small items.I should be ready to pull the wings off
and take it to the hangar and start final assembly. Raymond
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307892#307892
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Piet Sighting at Norridgewock Maine |
Looks like he attached the covers on center section wing gap areas....directly
to the wing. Most just lap it over the outside. That's interesting.
Sure do like those huge tires and nice contrasting woods in the instrument panel.
I love starting off the day with a cup of coffee and some new Air Camper pictures....
Life is good.
Thanks Michael!
-----Original Message-----
>From: Michael Silvius <silvius(at)gwi.net>
>Sent: Aug 7, 2010 9:43 PM
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet Sighting at Norridgewock Maine
>
>
>This one built in 1988 by Tom Fahy of Carrabassett Valley Maine
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | prop refinishing |
Hey,
Cool thing happened yesterday. While helping a friend move, I noticed an
old prop hanging on his garage wall. On closer inspection it turned out to
be a Fahlin prop and appears completely unused. He then said "you can have
that if my son doesn't want it, he was going to drill some holes in it and
make a really cool ceiling fan". The son said I could have it.
The brass leading tipping and edging is perfect and there are no crush marks
around any of the bolt holes. There is absolutely no delamination or
cracking anywhere. It Is however, completely covered with what looks like
crappy old varnish or something that was overppainted the entire prop and is
discolored very, very dark and kinda pooled up into little pools all over.
This coating almost has the same texture as miniature alligator skin where
the stuff has pooled together leaving little crevasse between them.
This coating was added by someone later as it goes right on over the decals
and the metal tipping. I did noticed it seemed to get softer in my hot car.
I'd like to refinish this prop if not to use, at least to display as it is
truly a beaut and Ole Fahlin was a very famous old prop maker. I think he
started in the twenties and worked until his death in the early nineties
when he was in HIS early nineties.
I've been reading up on my varnish removal options and am really hesitant to
use strippers as I don't want to affect the wood or glue. I've tried Hot
soapy water in the hope it was some sort of preserving wax or grease and it
didn't do anything.
My woodworking friend says start with hot soapy water, then try alcohol.
Someone suggested acetone. I though of MEK, but have no idea what that'll
do to the wood. I could also obviously sand it down. I'd love to protect
the decals, but I'm going to investigate if any can still be found or made
up.
Any suggestions are most appreciated!
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Max Hegler <maxhegler(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | prop refinishing |
Douwe=2C
My wife and I used to refinish furniture and the product we used to save go
od underlying finishes was called Formby's refinisher. You would just wipe
it on and gently rub it until the old crud came off to the level of the fin
ish you want to keep. I believe it also had tung oil in it to protect the f
inal finish=2C or we would use Formby's tung oil as a final finish. Our Rou
nd dining room table that is around 160 years old was done that way in 1985
and is still on the tung oil that we finished it with.
Max
From: douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net
Subject: Pietenpol-List: prop refinishing
Date: Sun=2C 8 Aug 2010 08:25:37 -0400
Hey=2C
Cool thing happened yesterday. While helping a friend move=2C
I noticed an old prop hanging on his garage wall. On closer inspection it
turned
out to be a Fahlin prop and appears completely unused. He then said =93you
can have that if my son doesn=92t want it=2C he was going to drill some hol
es
in it and make a really cool ceiling fan=94. The son said I could have it
=85
The brass leading tipping and edging is perfect and there are
no crush marks around any of the bolt holes. There is absolutely no delami
nation
or cracking anywhere. It Is however=2C completely covered with what looks
like crappy
old varnish or something that was overppainted the entire prop and is disco
lored
very=2C very dark and kinda pooled up into little pools all over. This coa
ting almost
has the same texture as miniature alligator skin where the stuff has pooled
together
leaving little crevasse between them.
This coating was added by someone later as it goes right on over
the decals and the metal tipping. I did noticed it seemed to get softer in
my hot
car.
I=92d like to refinish this prop if not to use=2C at least
to display as it is truly a beaut and Ole Fahlin was a very famous old prop
maker.
I think he started in the twenties and worked until his death in the early
nineties
when he was in HIS early nineties.
I=92ve been reading up on my varnish removal options and
am really hesitant to use strippers as I don=92t want to affect the wood or
glue. I=92ve tried Hot soapy water in the hope it was some sort of preserv
ing
wax or grease and it didn=92t do anything.
My woodworking friend says start with hot soapy water=2C then
try alcohol. Someone suggested acetone. I though of MEK=2C but have no id
ea
what that=92ll do to the wood. I could also obviously sand it down. I=92d
love to protect the decals=2C but I=92m going to investigate if any can sti
ll
be found or made up.
Any suggestions are most appreciated!
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: prop refinishing |
| From: | "Jerry Dotson" <jdotson(at)erec.net> |
I scraped the majority of the varnish off a prop a long time ago with broken glass
from jars of the quart to half gallon sizes. Up near the threaded part they
would break with long curves the fit the prop pretty good. Kinda low tech but
works.
--------
Jerry Dotson
59 Daniel Johnson Rd
Baker, FL 32531
Started building NX510JD July, 2009
Ribs and tailfeathers done
using Lycoming O-235
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307929#307929
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: prop refinishing |
| From: | "Billy McCaskill" <billmz(at)cox.net> |
Douwe, you can try denatured alcohol to soften or remove the varnish as some varnishes
and shellacs use alcohol as a primary ingredient. You could also try
some naptha, it is gentle enough that I use it to clean up old guitars with fragile
lacquer finishes without damaging them. I would not recommend the use
of MEK as it will strip everything off right down to bare wood. The MEK will
not hurt the wood, but it will certainly destroy the original finish and any decals
that are on the prop. Acetone might also be a bit harsh for what you are
trying to accomplish. Whichever solvent you use, make sure to use them outdoors
or with plenty of ventilation available, and obviously not around any possible
source of combustion.
The broken glass scrapers will also work, but I prefer a good steel cabinet scraper
as they are much safer to use than broken glass, and can be resharpened
easily by burnishing the edge with the shaft of a screwdriver or similar tool.
Just use a light touch so as not go scrape too deeply and damage the original
finish or to remove any wood.
--------
Billy McCaskill
Urbana, IL
tail section almost done, starting on ribs soon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307947#307947
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jeff wilson <jlwilsonnn(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Spring Loaded Tail Wheel |
I've searched the archives but could not find any plans or links. I'm looki
ng for plans for the Tail wheel that most of you use. The A frame design wi
th a Spring.
Can anyone help?
Jeff Wilson
N899WT (r)
St. Louis
-
=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Spring Loaded Tail Wheel |
Jeff,
I am assuming that you have the tailwheel skid as part of your plans? I
think most of us are just 'winging' it from there! If you check out
www.westcoastpiet.com <http://www.westcoastpiet.com/> , you will see all
sorts of stuff. I attached a few pics.
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(20 ribs down.)
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of jeff wilson
Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2010 12:40 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Spring Loaded Tail Wheel
I've searched the archives but could not find any plans or links. I'm
looking for plans for the Tail wheel that most of you use. The A frame
design with a Spring.
Can anyone help?
Jeff Wilson
N899WT (r)
St. Louis
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Spring Loaded Tail Wheel |
BTW.the spring is from John Deere.
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(20 ribs down.)
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Boothe
Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2010 12:58 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Spring Loaded Tail Wheel
Jeff,
I am assuming that you have the tailwheel skid as part of your plans? I
think most of us are just 'winging' it from there! If you check out
www.westcoastpiet.com <http://www.westcoastpiet.com/> , you will see all
sorts of stuff. I attached a few pics.
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(20 ribs down.)
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of jeff wilson
Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2010 12:40 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Spring Loaded Tail Wheel
I've searched the archives but could not find any plans or links. I'm
looking for plans for the Tail wheel that most of you use. The A frame
design with a Spring.
Can anyone help?
Jeff Wilson
N899WT (r)
St. Louis
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Air Camper vs. Fly Baby |
| From: | "JGriff" <jgriffith19(at)comcast.net> |
Well I decided on the Air Camper and just ordered up the plans.
I'm sure you'll be hearing from me more with lots of questions. :D
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307974#307974
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Any interest in Spruce Kits? I'd appreciate some feedback |
regarding an idea...
| From: | Mark Roberts <mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com> |
Hi All:
Please forgive any perceived impropriety in addressing this group
commercially, but I thought it the best place to ask and receive some
marketing information.... Based on your responses, I might place an ad in
the BPA newsletter and go forward.
As some of you know, the job layoff last September began a bit of a dry
spell for me and my building project. But, with every adversity there is a
seed of greatness and opportunity. As a result of a post here this week, I
began looking at the place I have been trying to start a business, and
realized that I might be in a perfect place to help the group, and add to
our business.
I have teamed up with a local business called "The WoodShed" in Clovis CA.
My business partner is the son of the owner and proprietor. The owner, Al,
is also partners with us in California Laser Etch, having bought the machine
we use to help us get started. OK, that's the back ground on what I am
asking about.
Al has stocked Spar Grade Sitka Spruce (read that: perfectly vertical grain
Sitka Spruce), hand selected by him from his supplier, for years to help
some of the local home builders. Since it is really spar stock, I have not
bought any of it from him to build my project (no money mean no wood even if
it WASN'T spar stock)...
So, I have spoken to him and my business partner this week about making an
order for some air dried (not kiln dried), aircraft grade Sitka Spruce that
he has access to, and cutting it to size to offer Piet kits to builders at a
price significantly less than ACS or Wicks. We have ALL the tooling and
equipment necessary to cut the kits and I was thinking of offering all the
wood needed, cut and sized to the dimensions needed to begin shaping, in
various kits: Total kits, wing kits, fuse kits, tail kits.
I think someone else (Ken?) is providing the metal parts cut to shape, so
that is available, but the individual wood kits I haven't seen. Maybe they
are already produced? But our overhead is extremely low, and I think we
could price the kits very reasonably.
I have not run numbers yet, but I know the wholesale price per board foot
for the sitka, and I have a place to start.
I am not interested in doing this for multiple designs, but just for the
Piet and Piet builders. I see us as a close community, with much more
activity than any other plans built wooden planes, and would perhaps benefit
some of us.
I know ACS sells the complete kits for $1,152, and I am pretty sure we can
do them for a significant savings, but I don't have the numbers yet.
So my question is how much interest is there out the for something like this
if the individual/total kits were available if they were indeed a decent
savings? I am planning to work on the numbers in the next couple of days...
I appreciate the feedback.
--
Mark Roberts
California Laser Etch
www.california-laser.com
888-882-5015
888-882-5016 fax
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Redmond <mdredmond(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Any interest in Spruce Kits? I'd appreciate some |
feedback regarding an idea...
Mark,
I'd be interested if pricing was competitive (I'd throw a bone to an
unemployed guy who is trying to eke out an honest living before sending
money to ACS).
That said, I'd only be game for fuse and empennage kits. I already have an
RV in here and can only handle so many airplane projects :-)
BTW, I think it's Tom Kreiner who is selling the cut metal parts:
tkreiner(at)gmail.com.
Matt
Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 8, 2010, at 11:46 PM, Mark Roberts wrote:
Hi All:
Please forgive any perceived impropriety in addressing this group
commercially, but I thought it the best place to ask and receive some
marketing information.... Based on your responses, I might place an ad in
the BPA newsletter and go forward.
As some of you know, the job layoff last September began a bit of a dry
spell for me and my building project. But, with every adversity there is a
seed of greatness and opportunity. As a result of a post here this week, I
began looking at the place I have been trying to start a business, and
realized that I might be in a perfect place to help the group, and add to
our business.
I have teamed up with a local business called "The WoodShed" in Clovis CA.
My business partner is the son of the owner and proprietor. The owner, Al,
is also partners with us in California Laser Etch, having bought the machine
we use to help us get started. OK, that's the back ground on what I am
asking about.
Al has stocked Spar Grade Sitka Spruce (read that: perfectly vertical grain
Sitka Spruce), hand selected by him from his supplier, for years to help
some of the local home builders. Since it is really spar stock, I have not
bought any of it from him to build my project (no money mean no wood even if
it WASN'T spar stock)...
So, I have spoken to him and my business partner this week about making an
order for some air dried (not kiln dried), aircraft grade Sitka Spruce that
he has access to, and cutting it to size to offer Piet kits to builders at a
price significantly less than ACS or Wicks. We have ALL the tooling and
equipment necessary to cut the kits and I was thinking of offering all the
wood needed, cut and sized to the dimensions needed to begin shaping, in
various kits: Total kits, wing kits, fuse kits, tail kits.
I think someone else (Ken?) is providing the metal parts cut to shape, so
that is available, but the individual wood kits I haven't seen. Maybe they
are already produced? But our overhead is extremely low, and I think we
could price the kits very reasonably.
I have not run numbers yet, but I know the wholesale price per board foot
for the sitka, and I have a place to start.
I am not interested in doing this for multiple designs, but just for the
Piet and Piet builders. I see us as a close community, with much more
activity than any other plans built wooden planes, and would perhaps benefit
some of us.
I know ACS sells the complete kits for $1,152, and I am pretty sure we can
do them for a significant savings, but I don't have the numbers yet.
So my question is how much interest is there out the for something like this
if the individual/total kits were available if they were indeed a decent
savings? I am planning to work on the numbers in the next couple of days...
I appreciate the feedback.
--
Mark Roberts
California Laser Etch
<http://www.california-laser.com>www.california-laser.com
888-882-5015
888-882-5016 fax
*
*
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Any interest in Spruce Kits? I'd appreciate some feedback |
| From: | "Billy McCaskill" <billmz(at)cox.net> |
Mark, I like the idea of individual kits for the various airframe components.
That spreads the cost out over the course of building so as not to be hit with
the cost of the entire wood package at one time. Depending on cost, I might
be interested in this.
Matt, Ken Perkins does offer kits with the metal fittings and Tom Kreiner is developing
his metal fitting kit as well, but as of Brodhead a few weeks ago, Tom's
kits were not ready for market yet. Ken's parts are top notch, having seen
some of them at Brodhead. I'm sure that Tom's kits will also be very high quality
once they are ready...
--------
Billy McCaskill
Urbana, IL
tail section almost done, starting on ribs soon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=308026#308026
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Ken Perkins metal parts |
| From: | "bubbleboy" <scott.dawson3(at)bigpond.com> |
Can someone advise me of Ken Perkins email details. I would like to enquire qbout
the metal parts he has for the Air Camper.
Scotty
www.scottyspietenpol.com
--------
Scotty
Tamworth, Australia
Building a Corvair Powered Pietenpol Air Camper
www.scottyspietenpol.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=308027#308027
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Ken Perkins metal parts |
| From: | "Pieti Lowell" <Lowellcfrank(at)yahoo.com> |
Scotty, try:
kenandvernaperkins(at)sbglobal.net
Pieti Lowell
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=308031#308031
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Air Camper vs. Fly Baby |
Good for you! You won't be sorry.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of JGriff
Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2010 7:51 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Air Camper vs. Fly Baby
Well I decided on the Air Camper and just ordered up the plans.
I'm sure you'll be hearing from me more with lots of questions. :D
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307974#307974
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> |
Hey,
I think I figured out what the gunk on that prop is, though it's kinda
gross. I'm convinced it is decades of accumulation of cigarette smoke tar.
I'll bet this thing hung in a bar or restaurant.
I hit it with a heat gun and it softened into a gummy consistency, allowing
me to easily scrape it off with a plastic scraper. It then instantly
hardens back to a plastic-like material. I thought it might have been
cosmoline, but I can tell by the smell and the way it rehardens that it
isn't. It smells like cigarettes.
After I scrape off as much as possible, I'll try some of the solvents
recommended, starting with mineral spirits.
Thanks
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jeff wilson <jlwilsonnn(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Spring Loaded Tail Wheel |
Thanks Gary,=C2- these pics along with the skid plans makes it clear to m
e.
Jeff Wilson
--- On Sun, 8/8/10, Gary Boothe wrote:
From: Gary Boothe <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Spring Loaded Tail Wheel
Date: Sunday, August 8, 2010, 2:58 PM
July 31, 2010 - August 09, 2010
Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-jl