Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-jp
September 03, 2010 - September 18, 2010
C-85-12
Wire Wheels
Broadhead in 1996
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311248#311248
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol airlines shirts |
| From: | "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca> |
Before the whole List gets filled with everyone placing their T-Shirt orders, thought
it might be a good time to mention that John usually just makes the T-Shirts
available through Caf Press, rather than taking orders. (At least that's
how his other great designs have been offered). So, it's probably best to just
wait till John says the design is available, and then place your orders through
the website. (Unless things are different for this design).
Of course, seeing all these requests for shirts is probably a good motivator for
John to get it done sooner.
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311254#311254
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Lee Bottom Fly-In |
| From: | "Billy McCaskill" <billmz(at)cox.net> |
Anybody who does not come back smiling from a flight in a Piet obviously has something
very wrong with them!
:D
--------
Billy McCaskill
Urbana, IL
tail section almost done, starting on ribs soon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311258#311258
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ben Charvet <bencharvet(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Thanks for the input-stits-ceconite-stewart |
Stewart system doesn't use any volatile solvents, so you can just use
spar varnish. You can use any quality brand. Do yourself and buy it by
the gallon. I used 3 quarts just doing my wing. As someone else
mentioned, it also works well with Latex paint. Watch the youtube
videos for an idea how it works. It is basically like a heat activated
contact cement with no odor. I did my covering with bare hands, no
respirator, in a closed up shop. It is heat activated, so you can work
it as slow or fast as you want, while shrinking your fabric around
compound curves, like wing tips and elevator edges. I've used the
Randolph systems in their covering seminars at Osh and Sun-n-fun, and
would use Stewart Eco-bond again in a heartbeat.
Ben Charvet
Mims, Fl
Took mom (76 years old) for her first Pietenpol ride today
On 9/3/2010 7:37 AM, Michael Perez wrote:
> You guys using the Stewart's System, did you use their varnish for the
> bare wood prior to covering, if not, what brand/type varnish did you use?
>
> Michael Perez
> Karetaker Aero
> www.karetakeraero.com
>
> --- On *Fri, 9/3/10, Dave Sornborger //* wrote:
>
>
> From: Dave Sornborger <dsornbor(at)aol.com>
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Thanks for the input-stits-ceconite-stewart
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Friday, September 3, 2010, 7:16 AM
>
> Thanks Guys,Looks like Stewart is the way to go.Not much into the
> toxicity levels of the others,not to mention the KaBoom! factor.
> Thanks again.Dave
>
> *http://www.matronil="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://forums.matronics.com">http:=======================
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "TOM STINEMETZE" <TOMS(at)mcpcity.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Thanks for the input-stits-ceconite-stewart |
Ben:
Good on you, mate! How did you get a 76 year old folded up enough to get
into the front 'pit?
Tom Stinemetze
McPherson, KS.
>>> Ben Charvet 9/3/2010 1:03 PM >>>
Ben Charvet
Mims, Fl
Took mom (76 years old) for her first Pietenpol ride today
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 40 hour fly-off, state of model A |
| From: | "BYD" <billsayre(at)ymail.com> |
Perhaps Im thick or something but is there something different in those prints
that would make a plane built from them a more beautiful flying airplane? Since
he was referring to flying Allen Rudolph's old Piet and said, if I were to
build another Piet I'd do my best to replicate THAT one, I assume there was something
he noted about THAT airplane.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311276#311276
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 40 hour fly-off, state of model A |
| From: | Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com> |
Well, it was a bit of a sarcastic reply. The Allen Rudolf Piet is pretty
well built to the plans. Technically, I should have taken a picture of the
F&G Manual, because I believe it was supposed to have been constructed from
that version of the plans back in the early '30s.
The point is that if you want to have a beautiful flying airplane, what's
contained in those prints will get you just that. :)
Ryan
On Fri, Sep 3, 2010 at 1:57 PM, BYD wrote:
>
> Perhaps I=92m thick or something but is there something different in thos
e
> prints that would make a plane built from them a more beautiful flying
> airplane? Since he was referring to flying Allen Rudolph's old Piet and
> said, =93if I were to build another Piet I'd do my best to replicate THAT
> one=94, I assume there was something he noted about THAT airplane.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311276#311276
>
>
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>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 40 hour fly-off, state of model A |
| From: | "BYD" <billsayre(at)ymail.com> |
Ryan,
I certainly won't argue with that, and I wondered if he might have meant that,
but I also wondered if there might have been details he noticed when flying it
that became obvious during operation. I have only flown in an original but not
at the controls.
Bill
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311287#311287
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Started my rib jig today |
| From: | "JGriff" <jgriffith19(at)comcast.net> |
Used a pneumatic headless pinner for the blocks so it went together fairly quickly.
I'm fairly sure I'm going to staple the gussets instead of just clamping
so I can try to bang the ribs out fairly quickly.
Attached are some photos - does everything look correct?
I'm open to any suggestions from you guys on how to improve the jig and the rib
building process. Thanks.
Jamie
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311293#311293
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/rib2_121.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/rib4_439.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/rib1_173.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "TOM STINEMETZE" <TOMS(at)mcpcity.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Started my rib jig today |
Jamie:
Looks good to me and very close to how I did mine. Note that the two spar
spacers you have will be very easy to glue to your ribs unless your put
something between the spar spacer and the sticks to be glued. I tried
small pieces of waxed paper which worked OK but had to be replaced each
time as they would rip when you pulled the glued up spar out of the jig
(after the glue cured of course.) I found that coating the spar spacer at
the joints with a light coat of Vaseline kept the glue from sticking and
made removal from the jig a lot simpler. Your milage may vary.
Tom Stinemetze
McPherson, KS.
>>> "JGriff" 9/3/2010 4:33 PM >>>
http://forums.matronics.com//files/rib1_173.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Tailbrace wire idea |
| From: | "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca> |
Saw a plane at a fly-in a couple of weeks ago that used a different idea for the
tailbrace wires. The plane was a Rans S-6, and I noticed that the tailbrace
wires did not have any turnbuckles. The method used to avoid turnbuckles was to
put a pattern of staggered holes in the small brackets attached to the cables
that get screwed to the tailplanes. If the cable isn't snug enough, move to
the next hole.
Well, my description probably has you scratching your head as to what I'm trying
to explain, so here's a picture:
Personally, I think I prefer the traditional turnbuckles, but this method is a
lightweight alternative that has some merit.
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311298#311298
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/tailbrace_104.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Boyer <boyerjrb(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Started my rib jig today |
Jamie its looking=C2- good; get building ribs.
Cheers,
Jim B.
----- Original Message -----
From: "JGriff" <jgriffith19(at)comcast.net>
Sent: Friday, September 3, 2010 2:33:53 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Started my rib jig today
Used a pneumatic headless pinner for the blocks so it went together fairly
quickly. I'm fairly sure I'm going to staple the gussets instead of just cl
amping so I can try to bang the ribs out fairly quickly.
Attached are some photos - does everything look correct?
I'm open to any suggestions from you guys on how to improve the jig and the
rib building process. Thanks.
Jamie
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311293#311293
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/rib2_121.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/rib4_439.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/rib1_173.jpg
===========
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MS -
===========
e -
=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2--Matt Dralle, List Admin.
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________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Started my rib jig today |
| From: | "dwilson" <marwilson(at)charter.net> |
My two cents... If I were building a new rib jig today I think it would be the
612 rib. I would also drill two holes in both vertical upright braces that are
next to the wing spars. Instead of nailing the ribs to the spar through the
top capstrip as shown in the plans, many builders nail the uprights to the spar.
I used a picture frame nailer to squeeze the nails into the spar.
Hope you enjoy building your ribs.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311304#311304
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Started my rib jig today |
| From: | "dwilson" <marwilson(at)charter.net> |
My two cents... If I were building a new rib jig today I think it would be the
612 rib. I would also drill two holes in both vertical upright braces that are
next to the wing spars. Instead of nailing the ribs to the spar through the
top capstrip as shown in the plans, many builders nail the uprights to the spar.
I used a picture frame nailer to squeeze the nails into the spar.
Hope you enjoy building your ribs.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311305#311305
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Thanks for the input-stits-ceconite-stewart |
| From: | helspersew(at)aol.com |
Mike,
I am not aware that they sell varnish, but I used two-part epoxy varnish
which is bulletpoof (but expensive). If I were you I would call Dan Stewa
rt and ask him. The Stewart's are very good about calling you back with ad
vice.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Sent: Fri, Sep 3, 2010 6:37 am
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Thanks for the input-stits-ceconite-stewart
You guys using the Stewart's System, did you use their varnish for the bar
e wood prior to covering, if not, what brand/type varnish did you use?
Michael Perez
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
--- On Fri, 9/3/10, Dave Sornborger wrote:
From: Dave Sornborger <dsornbor(at)aol.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Thanks for the input-stits-ceconite-stewart
Date: Friday, September 3, 2010, 7:16 AM
Thanks Guys,Looks like Stewart is the way to go.Not much into the toxicity
levels of the others,not to mention the KaBoom! factor.
Thanks again.Dave
http://www.matronil="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://forums.m
atronics.com">http:==================
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Willis <timothywillis(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Tailbrace wire idea |
This is a generally great idea to save weight, money, and some rigging.
However, those multiple choice" cross-drilled holes are way too close together.
As I understand it, we are supposed to have 2 times the diameter of the hole,
from the center of the hole, to the edge of the material or to another such
hole. Our BP drawings do not always provide that, either re edges, but these
holes shown are very tight to each other.
Tim in central TX
-----Original Message-----
>From: Bill Church <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca>
>Sent: Sep 3, 2010 5:20 PM
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Tailbrace wire idea
>
>
>Saw a plane at a fly-in a couple of weeks ago that used a different idea for the
tailbrace wires. The plane was a Rans S-6, and I noticed that the tailbrace
wires did not have any turnbuckles. The method used to avoid turnbuckles was
to put a pattern of staggered holes in the small brackets attached to the cables
that get screwed to the tailplanes. If the cable isn't snug enough, move to
the next hole.
>Well, my description probably has you scratching your head as to what I'm trying
to explain, so here's a picture:
>
>Personally, I think I prefer the traditional turnbuckles, but this method is a
lightweight alternative that has some merit.
>
>Bill C.
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311298#311298
>
>
>Attachments:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com//files/tailbrace_104.jpg
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Started my rib jig today |
| From: | Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
Good work Jamie, the only thing I did different was add round cams cut from
1" dowels when several of you outside blocks are, made it easier to insert
and remove parts (and finished ribs). The dowels are drilled off center and
held down with short desk screws.
rick
On Fri, Sep 3, 2010 at 3:33 PM, JGriff wrote:
>
> Used a pneumatic headless pinner for the blocks so it went together fairly
> quickly. I'm fairly sure I'm going to staple the gussets instead of just
> clamping so I can try to bang the ribs out fairly quickly.
> Attached are some photos - does everything look correct?
> I'm open to any suggestions from you guys on how to improve the jig and the
> rib building process. Thanks.
> Jamie
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311293#311293
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/rib2_121.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/rib4_439.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/rib1_173.jpg
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ben Charvet <bencharvet(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Started my rib jig today |
To keep from gluing my rib to my jig, I used pieces of plastic grocery
bag, about a 2"x2" square under each joint. After removing the rib from
the jig the next day, the plastic will peel right off. I'm not sure it
would be a great idea to pull the rib out of the jig before the glue is
cured if that's what you meant by "bang the ribs out fairly quickly" I
did my ribs one day at a time, and it took over a month. It is a good
way to see if you have the stamina to finish the project though. I made
a few practice ribs using cheap lumber, and they are still in use as
wall decorations. Have fun and enjoy the journey!
Ben Charvet
Mims, Fl
On 9/3/2010 5:33 PM, JGriff wrote:
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "JGriff"
>
> Used a pneumatic headless pinner for the blocks so it went together fairly quickly.
I'm fairly sure I'm going to staple the gussets instead of just clamping
so I can try to bang the ribs out fairly quickly.
> Attached are some photos - does everything look correct?
> I'm open to any suggestions from you guys on how to improve the jig and the rib
building process. Thanks.
> Jamie
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311293#311293
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/rib2_121.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/rib4_439.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/rib1_173.jpg
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Started my rib jig today |
| From: | helspersew(at)aol.com |
Looks good Jamie. Make sure and steam-bend your upper cap strip. I was at
your stage in July of 2000. Keep going little by little.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
-----Original Message-----
From: JGriff <jgriffith19(at)comcast.net>
Sent: Fri, Sep 3, 2010 4:33 pm
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Started my rib jig today
Used a pneumatic headless pinner for the blocks so it went together fairly
uickly. I'm fairly sure I'm going to staple the gussets instead of just
lamping so I can try to bang the ribs out fairly quickly.
ttached are some photos - does everything look correct?
'm open to any suggestions from you guys on how to improve the jig and the
rib
uilding process. Thanks.
amie
ead this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311293#311293
ttachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/rib2_121.jpg
ttp://forums.matronics.com//files/rib4_439.jpg
ttp://forums.matronics.com//files/rib1_173.jpg
-========================
========================
===========
-= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum -
-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
-= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
-= Photoshare, and much much more:
-
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
-
-========================
========================
===========
-= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
-= Same great content also available via the Web Forums!
-
-= --> http://forums.matronics.com
-
-========================
========================
===========
-= - List Contribution Web Site -
-= Thank you for your generous support!
-= -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
-========================
========================
===========
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Tailbrace wire idea |
| From: | "skellytown flyer" <skellflyer1(at)yahoo.com> |
Well there are a heck of a lot of Rans aircraft out there.I owned an S-12 -they
all use the same stainless steel tabs as far as I know-they are thick enough
and very nicely made.as far as I know they never had a failure from one.I'm pretty
sure Randy Schlitter has tested about all his parts pretty thoroughly before
he puts them on the market.he also tells you if you need just a little more
tension you can 0put another twist or two in the cable.with the price of turnbuckles
these days it makes sense to consider. Raymond
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311352#311352
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Started my rib jig today |
| From: | "JGriff" <jgriffith19(at)comcast.net> |
The jig has a layer of 3 mil mylar so hopefully that will be OK. I didn't think
about how to keep the epoxy from sticking to the spar spacers I have in place.
Guess I'll have to figure out a way to get some wax paper in there. I soaked
the first 15" of the top cap strip in hot water for about 20 minutes and clamped
it in my former. Seemed to work OK.
So even though I'll staple the gussets on I should wait for 24 hours or so before
removing the rib to do the other side?
Thanks for all the help and encouragement.
Jamie
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311353#311353
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/rib6_208.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Try some paste wax.... |
Just wax up the spar insert pieces (or anything else you don't want epoxy to stick
to....) real good. Epoxy won't stick to wax. You may have to do it the first
few times but after a while it will have enough wax embedded that epoxy won't
stick to it....ever. I've used paste car wax in the past for epoxy laminations
and hollow core wing molds and it worked fine. If you have a composites
products store available you can get this stuff called "mold release" which
is also just basically wax. Easier (which I like since I'm lazy) than fiddling
around with wax paper, etc.
jm
-----Original Message-----
>From: JGriff <jgriffith19(at)comcast.net>
>Sent: Sep 4, 2010 8:21 AM
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Started my rib jig today
>
>
>The jig has a layer of 3 mil mylar so hopefully that will be OK. I didn't think
about how to keep the epoxy from sticking to the spar spacers I have in place.
Guess I'll have to figure out a way to get some wax paper in there. I soaked
the first 15" of the top cap strip in hot water for about 20 minutes and clamped
it in my former. Seemed to work OK.
>
>So even though I'll staple the gussets on I should wait for 24 hours or so before
removing the rib to do the other side?
>
>Thanks for all the help and encouragement.
>Jamie
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311353#311353
>
>
>Attachments:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com//files/rib6_208.jpg
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KM Heide CPO/FAAOP <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com> |
Clif,
-
You are a pleura of information! Thank for the posting.
-
KMHeide
-
--- On Fri, 9/3/10, Clif Dawson wrote:
From: Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: antenna
Date: Friday, September 3, 2010, 1:13 AM
The groundplane does not have to be solid. Mine is an
aluminum mesh acquired from an art supply house.
I've added this antenna article also.
My understanding is that you don't have to ground the
groundplane to anything else. It IS the " ground " . The
coax from the radio is attached to the groundplane.
The only concern I have with mine is how it will be
affected by the control cabling when I finaly get the
thing in the air.
Clif
oo.com>
>
> This is good information. I like the idea of an internal ground plane she
et even if it isn't too big. I am guessing it needs to be grounded to the n
egative battery terminal since it's mounted in a wood fuselage? or maybe on
ly the radio grounding from the antenna coax? probably wouldn't matter for
the ELT but might with a radio antenna as far as interference.
=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Try some paste wax.... |
| From: | "JGriff" <jgriffith19(at)comcast.net> |
That is a great idea! Thanks!.
Do not archive.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311366#311366
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Try some paste wax.... |
| From: | "kevinpurtee" <kevin.purtee(at)us.army.mil> |
You'll want to thoroughly clean the wax off the completed rib before gluing to
the spar. If the rib won't stick to the jig it won't stick to the spar.
I think I might have used varnish on the that spot on the jib? Don't remember.
1993-1995
--------
Kevin Purtee
NX899KP
Austin/Georgetown, TX
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311398#311398
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: leading edge covering |
| From: | "jimbir" <jimbir(at)yahoo.com> |
Thanks for the replies. We'll probably go for the plywood.
One more question. Do you add filler strips to the top of the front spar between
the ribs so as to have something to attach the rear edge of the covering to?
--------
Thanks, Jim Birke
Ira G. Ross Aerospace Museum
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311399#311399
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Try some paste wax.... |
| From: | "Billy McCaskill" <billmz(at)cox.net> |
Real mold release agent is made from PVA (poly-vinyl acetate) and contains no wax.
Resins and some epoxies (not sure abobut T-88) can absorb some of the wax
and interfere with proper curing and the ability for glue to stick to it when
it's supposed to. Just something to consider while building your Piet or any
other wood structures...
Also avoid any waxes or lubricants containing silicone, as it will interfere with
adhesion of finishes like varnish, shellac, etc...
--------
Billy McCaskill
Urbana, IL
tail section almost done, starting on ribs soon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311400#311400
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ben Charvet <bencharvet(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Try some paste wax.... |
I forgot to mention, the grocery bag pieces are free, and even
reusable. They will stretch to fit the contour you need and are very
easy to use. At Sun-n-Fun this year someone made a rib in the rib jig
without using any release protection. I wonder how they ever got that
rib out.....
Ben
On 9/4/2010 9:37 PM, Billy McCaskill wrote:
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Billy McCaskill"
>
> Real mold release agent is made from PVA (poly-vinyl acetate) and contains no
wax. Resins and some epoxies (not sure abobut T-88) can absorb some of the wax
and interfere with proper curing and the ability for glue to stick to it when
it's supposed to. Just something to consider while building your Piet or any
other wood structures...
>
> Also avoid any waxes or lubricants containing silicone, as it will interfere
with adhesion of finishes like varnish, shellac, etc...
>
> --------
> Billy McCaskill
> Urbana, IL
> tail section almost done, starting on ribs soon
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311400#311400
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "giacummo" <mario.giacummo(at)gmail.com> |
Hello,
May be you just talk about gussets, but I do not find anything so I want you to
ask and talk about them.
Th problem with the gussets begun because I we don't have plywood in 1.5 mm ( 1/16"
) here where I leave. I begun with the wing ribs but the minimun plywood
I have is 3 mm and I do not like it, it is so so...
So I thought in make mine on replace for the gussets. I started with wood sheets
(3), but is very difficult to make becuase it bends too much when I put the
adhessive, and are very heavy (i used epoxy). Then I try with 2 sheets of wood
and fiberglas in the middle... it look fin, and a last option with only three
layers of fiberglass.
The one with wood is very strong, the sandwich of wood and fiberglas is ok, and
the fiberglass only it is a little soft in bending (my english is very shot as
you can see).
Reading and googleing I find some articles where talk about even "paper" gussets,
so I have a big question and is "what are the gussets for (I suspect) ad how
hard have they be, in tension, compression, bending". What do you recommend?
May be I can use the 3mm plywood ?.. I want to understand the job the gussets
do in the rib.
Thank you, best regards.
mario
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311402#311402
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris" <catdesigns(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: leading edge covering |
No, do not support the rear edge of the plywood. When you cover the wing
this will allow the plywood to deform slightly and make a smooth transition.
Chris
Sacramento, Ca
Westcoastpiet.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of jimbir
Sent: Saturday, September 04, 2010 6:24 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: leading edge covering
Thanks for the replies. We'll probably go for the plywood.
One more question. Do you add filler strips to the top of the front spar
between the ribs so as to have something to attach the rear edge of the
covering to?
--------
Thanks, Jim Birke
Ira G. Ross Aerospace Museum
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311399#311399
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Billy McCaskill" <billmz(at)cox.net> |
Hi Mario,
If there is a hobby shop near you which sells radio control model airplanes and
supplies, 1.5mm plywood should be available there in smaller sheets. It will
be more expensive buying it this way than buying full sheets, but if full sheets
are not available then this might be your only option for getting the 1.5mm
plywood. The 3mm ply will add a LOT of additional weight to your wing ribs,
as there are a lot of gussets on each rib and there are 30 ribs to build...
--------
Billy McCaskill
Urbana, IL
tail section almost done, starting on ribs soon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311408#311408
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "chase143(at)aol.com" <chase143(at)aol.com> |
Hello Mario,
There are also several sources on line.
This one currently on ebay: item number: 15048268181
$23USD for approx. 18 sq/ft 1.5mm hobby plywood. This is about the same price as
Aircraft Spruce & Specialty; approx. $25 for 20 sq/ft. (according to my calculations.
I personally purchased from ACS for the convenience and reliability.
As with everything, shipping is a factor, but I would check into it.
Good luck,
Steve
Owings, MD
--------
Steve
www.mypiet.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311426#311426
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KM Heide CPO/FAAOP <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com> |
Members of the list:
-
With the price of Okoume, has anyone found a reasonable source to purchase
this type of plywood? With truck shipping varying, thought I would ask befo
re prying open my wallet and shelling out some-clams.....
-
KM Heide-
-
=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Okoume plywood |
| From: | "JGriff" <jgriffith19(at)comcast.net> |
I'm lucky and have Boulter about a mile from where I work. They do ship however. http://www.boulterplywood.com/
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311457#311457
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "giacummo" <mario.giacummo(at)gmail.com> |
Thank you for the data Steve, here U$S 7 a sheet of an A4 paper size...
too much , no? this is why I am traying to build them
regards
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311477#311477
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack" <jack(at)textors.com> |
Ken, I'm lucky to have a boat supplier in town. I don't believe they ship,
but not sure.
Jack
DSM
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of KM Heide
CPO/FAAOP
Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2010 12:00 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Okoume plywood
Members of the list:
With the price of Okoume, has anyone found a reasonable source to purchase
this type of plywood? With truck shipping varying, thought I would ask
before prying open my wallet and shelling out some clams.....
KM Heide
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack" <jack(at)textors.com> |
| Subject: | Multi Use Power Tool |
All,
Harbor Freight http://www.harborfreight.com has that multi use power tool
on sale through tomorrow. Jeez they got them in variable speed, battery and
air powered now. Mine has actually worked very well.
Happy Labor Day all!
Jack
DSM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
List,
Today I solved a 2 year old problem - my tail wheel. I knew I had it rigged
wrong and contemplated many fixes, including completely rebuilding it. The
symptom was too much force was required on the rudder pedals, and when the
wheel moved from left to right, the tail lifted a little. I put the question
to The List a few months ago and got several helpful responses, including
this one from Santiago: http://www.pierceaero.net/tws.php
In the end, the most simple fix seemed to be the best one.took about 1 hr!
BEFORE
AFTER
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(20 ribs down.)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ben Charvet <bencharvet(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Okoume plywood |
I found mine within driving distance here:
http://www.worldpanel.com/ in Riviera Beach, Florida.
Try looking at okoume.org, they list a few suppliers that may be closer
to you.
Ben Charvet
On 9/5/2010 12:59 PM, KM Heide CPO/FAAOP wrote:
> Members of the list:
>
> With the price of Okoume, has anyone found a reasonable source to
> purchase this type of plywood? With truck shipping varying, thought I
> would ask before prying open my wallet and shelling out some clams.....
> KM Heide
> */ /*
> *//*
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "TriScout" <apfelcyber(at)yahoo.com> |
Was able to combine work w/pleasure and traded an airline ticket home from Atlanta
for a one-way car rental. Just returned to Dallas from Don's(dream machines)
in Griffin, GA w/my newly overhauled A65-8. Glad I googled around and called
him.
Had to tear out the back seat to get the engine in the car. Not too shabby. 6k
cash for a GN-1 airframe... $4,100 total for overhauled engine w/Slick 4333 mags.
Need a cheap prop next...hoping for wood...like that look.
Hmmm.. now pondering(see photo) all the little nickle&dime stuff (what size engine
bolts/airfilter/carb heat box type..etc etc)... Will be digging thru Aircraft
Spruce catalog for awhile ..
Larry (Garland, TX)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311495#311495
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/00002_183.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/00001_529.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/00004_734.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan P" <dlplett(at)swko.net> |
Nice! and the journey continues.
--------
Dan Plett
N28WH
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311498#311498
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Multi Use Power Tool |
| From: | "Billy McCaskill" <billmz(at)cox.net> |
I have the variable speed model (Father's Day gift!), and I use it frequently around
the house during our remodeling projects, and it works great. A very good
tool to have, and for a few jobs that I've tackled it was about the ONLY tool
that would do the job.
--------
Billy McCaskill
Urbana, IL
tail section almost done, starting on ribs soon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311500#311500
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Boyer <boyerjrb(at)comcast.net> |
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: leading edge covering |
| From: | helspersew(at)aol.com |
I put those filler pieces in there and wish I hadn't. Oh well, it still fl
ies well.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
-----Original Message-----
From: Chris <catdesigns(at)att.net>
Sent: Sat, Sep 4, 2010 10:19 pm
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: leading edge covering
No, do not support the rear edge of the plywood. When you cover the wing
his will allow the plywood to deform slightly and make a smooth transition
.
Chris
acramento, Ca
estcoastpiet.com
-----Original Message-----
rom: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of jimbir
ent: Saturday, September 04, 2010 6:24 PM
o: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
ubject: Pietenpol-List: Re: leading edge covering
Thanks for the replies. We'll probably go for the plywood.
ne more question. Do you add filler strips to the top of the front spar
etween the ribs so as to have something to attach the rear edge of the
overing to?
--------
hanks, Jim Birke
ra G. Ross Aerospace Museum
ead this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311399#311399
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________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Okoume plywood |
| From: | "gtche98" <garywilson213(at)yahoo.com> |
Quick Google search turned up this list of Boatbuilding Lumber supply houses.
Looks like there are a lot of options here:
http://www.glen-l.com/resources/lumber-suppliers.html
Here is their list for Minnesota:
Courtland - Courtland Hardwoods, 321 Main Street, PO Box 35, 56021, 507-359-7811
Maple Grove - Midwest Hardwood Corp., 9540 83rd Ave. North, 55369, 612-425-8700
Minneapolis - Industrial Lumber & Ply, 4100 Washington Ave N, 55412 612/521 4767
St. Bonifacius - Midwest Boat Appeal and Marine Plywood, 4340 Main St, 55375, (952)
446-9611
They also link to a couple other "wood finder" sites.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311527#311527
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Started my rib jig today |
| From: | Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
I waited about 10 hours before flipping the rib over, one side before going
to work then finish the other side after dinner.
rick
On Sat, Sep 4, 2010 at 7:21 AM, JGriff wrote:
>
> The jig has a layer of 3 mil mylar so hopefully that will be OK. I didn't
> think about how to keep the epoxy from sticking to the spar spacers I have
> in place. Guess I'll have to figure out a way to get some wax paper in
> there. I soaked the first 15" of the top cap strip in hot water for about 20
> minutes and clamped it in my former. Seemed to work OK.
>
> So even though I'll staple the gussets on I should wait for 24 hours or so
> before removing the rib to do the other side?
>
> Thanks for all the help and encouragement.
> Jamie
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311353#311353
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/rib6_208.jpg
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Color suggestions |
I've struggled over the looks of my Model A engine and finally realize I need to
clean it up and add some color....but I'm not taking it apart to do every little
piece individually. I've already removed bits and pieces (started sand blasting
yesterday) so I can powder coat the pieces that will fit in the oven.
The rest I'll leave assembled and clean/mask and air brush.
I already have black and cream and blue powder and matched industrial paint of
the same colors and would like to use one or all of those. I don't want to have
to buy any new paint.
Maybe all black? All black big pieces with the little stuff blue? (Julia doesn't
like that idea)
Attached is a pretty close picture of my eventual overall paint scheme. Anyone
with a better understanding of what might look good have any suggestions for
me? Maybe I need to call a share holder's meeting to discuss this? :-)
Seriously, I have no idea what would look good but would really appreciate any
and all suggestions....
jm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | norm <coevst(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Try some paste wax.... |
Anyone try cheap hairspray applied to jig before starting each rib? Works a
s a mold release for fiberglass layups..
--- On Sat, 9/4/10, Ben Charvet wrote:
From: Ben Charvet <bencharvet(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Try some paste wax....
Date: Saturday, September 4, 2010, 10:16 PM
- I forgot to mention, the grocery bag pieces are free, and even
reusable.- They will stretch to fit the contour you need and are very
easy to use.- At Sun-n-Fun this year someone made a rib in the rib jig
without using any release protection.- I wonder how they ever got that
rib out.....
Ben
On 9/4/2010 9:37 PM, Billy McCaskill wrote:
> -->- Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Billy McCaskill"
>
> Real mold release agent is made from PVA (poly-vinyl acetate) and contain
s no wax.- Resins and some epoxies (not sure abobut T-88) can absorb some
of the wax and interfere with proper curing and the ability for glue to st
ick to it when it's supposed to.- Just something to consider while buildi
ng your Piet or any other wood structures...
>
> Also avoid any waxes or lubricants containing silicone, as it will interf
ere with adhesion of finishes like varnish, shellac, etc...
>
> --------
> Billy McCaskill
> Urbana, IL
> tail section almost done, starting on ribs soon
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311400#311400
>
>
le, List Admin.
=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Color suggestions |
Jim,
Although I'm conservative, by nature, I really like colorful Piets! I say,
"Be bold! Let the paint reflect your out-going personality!"
But the frugal side says you have to go with what's in the cupboard (wonder
how that orange marking paint and Golden Oak stain will look....?)
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(20 ribs down.)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Markle
Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 6:49 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Color suggestions
I've struggled over the looks of my Model A engine and finally realize I
need to clean it up and add some color....but I'm not taking it apart to do
every little piece individually. I've already removed bits and pieces
(started sand blasting yesterday) so I can powder coat the pieces that will
fit in the oven. The rest I'll leave assembled and clean/mask and air
brush.
I already have black and cream and blue powder and matched industrial paint
of the same colors and would like to use one or all of those. I don't want
to have to buy any new paint.
Maybe all black? All black big pieces with the little stuff blue? (Julia
doesn't like that idea)
Attached is a pretty close picture of my eventual overall paint scheme.
Anyone with a better understanding of what might look good have any
suggestions for me? Maybe I need to call a share holder's meeting to
discuss this? :-)
Seriously, I have no idea what would look good but would really appreciate
any and all suggestions....
jm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gene Rambo <generambo(at)msn.com> |
I bought a sheet of oakume large enough to do my leading edge with lots lef
t over from a boat supply place on Long Island. It was very cheap=2C and t
hey pre-cut the strips for me. Shipping was negligible. I will dig out th
e receipt and give you a name and number in the next day or two. it was so
cheap=2C I cannot imagine why anyone would hesitate.
Gene
Date: Sun=2C 5 Sep 2010 09:59:43 -0700
From: kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Okoume plywood
Members of the list:
With the price of Okoume=2C has anyone found a reasonable source to purchas
e this type of plywood? With truck shipping varying=2C thought I would ask
before prying open my wallet and shelling out some clams.....
KM Heide
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Color suggestions |
| From: | "Billy McCaskill" <billmz(at)cox.net> |
Chevy Competition Orange!
:)
--------
Billy McCaskill
Urbana, IL
tail section almost done, starting on ribs soon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311549#311549
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB" <steven.d.dortch(at)us.army.mil> |
| Subject: | Re: Color suggestions |
Ford Blue
----- Original Message -----
From: Billy McCaskill <billmz(at)cox.net>
Date: Monday, September 6, 2010 12:36
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Color suggestions
>
> Chevy Competition Orange!
>
> :)
>
> --------
> Billy McCaskill
> Urbana, IL
> tail section almost done, starting on ribs soon
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311549#311549
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
OK, per Jim Markle's suggestion, I flew my Pietenpol this morning to
celepbrate Labor Day, in the grand tradition of one BH Pietenpol. In flying
it I found that the airspeed indicator doesn't work (mud dauber in the pitot
tube) and the right brake doesn't really stop the wheel from turning, but
does make suggestions that the wheel should stop turning.
Now I've got to spend the rest of the day bleeding the brakes so I can fly
it to Culpepper VA tomorrow.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Happy Labor Day |
C'mon Jack, Bernie flew without brakes, even on Labor Day!
And our Labor Day flights show that No. 4 exhaust valve is leaking.
Ah well, remember, we do this for fun, right?! :'(
>OK, per Jim Markle's suggestion, I flew my Pietenpol this morning to
>celepbrate Labor Day, in the grand tradition of one BH Pietenpol.
>In flying it I found that the airspeed indicator doesn't work (mud
>dauber in the pitot tube) and the right brake doesn't really stop
>the wheel from turning, but does make suggestions that the wheel
>should stop turning.
>
>Now I've got to spend the rest of the day bleeding the brakes so I
>can fly it to Culpepper VA tomorrow.
>
>Jack Phillips
>NX899JP
>Raleigh, NC
--
Jeff Boatright
"Now let's think about this..."
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Wing education, please advise.. |
| From: | "j_dunavin" <j_dunavin(at)hotmail.com> |
We have the plans now, and are going though them in an effort to better understand
the construction process and to save a little more money.
This question came up:
Well I know so and so, who is building a short fues. piet. He says that he has
a different wing rib layout, and that layout will provide a better glide ratio
that the one in the plans. So and so says that the original one drops like a
rock.
This is kinda frustrating for me as I want to stick with the plans. Every aircraft
has a glide ratio, and you best distance over alt. drop will depend on air
density, weight, ect.
I also think that this other wing must also have a thicker cord, thus creating
more lift, which would produce more drag. More drag equals less airspeed.
My thinking is that if it was good enough for Mr. Pietenpol, it's going to be good
enough for me.
Anyway. What other wing could my Dad's buddy be talking about?
What is the glide ratio of the long fues. corvair powered Piet?
Is there any problem with the aircraft "dropping like a rock" if the engine quits?
I would think no more than any other aircraft, right?
Please educate me on these other wing designs people are using, and why you would
consider going away from what works, IE the plans.
Thanks for the help guys
Joe
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311568#311568
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ben Charvet <bencharvet(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing education, please advise.. |
> Please educate me on these other wing designs people are using, and why you would
consider going away from what works, IE the plans.
>
Some have used the Riblett airfoil. You can search on it in the
archives. I built my wing to the plans, and it has a nicer glide ratio
than the Baby Ace I just sold with clipped Cub wings (28 ft). I have
found the Pietenpol airfoil to be very satisfactory, with a gentle
stall. As you said, why fix it if it isn't broken.
Ben
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | antenna location-on the nose? |
| From: | "skellytown flyer" <skellflyer1(at)yahoo.com> |
I am struggling with where I can mount the antenna for my ELT right now. I could
possibly work some type of a ground plane into the tail section but it would
have been a whole lot easier before covering.what would work great is just stick
it on the front fuselage cover behind the engine. it is aluminum and would
provide a nice ground plane.I don't think it would bother me any up there as
far as sight.only thing I'm wondering about it-is would the prop-wash beat it
around and destroy it? the thing is maybe 14" long with a spring coil about 2/3
of the way up it so it would catch some blast for sure.also ideally if I did
that I'd stick the box itself under the front seat.I know most are behind in
the tail section but I didn't see anything in the instructions that said it had
to be-just mounted to primary load carrying structures such as longerons,beams,trusses
etc. Can anybody tell me if it is a bad idea to use these locations?
while it would sure work good for installation-I'm concerned about prop-wash
on the nose. Raymond
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311580#311580
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Happy Labor Day |
| From: | "JGriff" <jgriffith19(at)comcast.net> |
Made about 200 wing rib gussets today on Labor day. :D
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311582#311582
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wing education, please advise.. |
| From: | "Pieti Lowell" <Lowellcfrank(at)yahoo.com> |
Joe,
I have flown the Pietenpol, a 4412 and the last wing is the Riblett 612 since 2004,
the test that I tried from 3000 Ft, I shut the Ford to idle. glided 9 miles
to the airport, had to side slip to the runway, an never touched the throttle
until taxi time. And my wing is clipped 2 Ft.
All on a 74 Deg. day at 850Ft. airport elevation. It is not slower, and it lifts
very well, even when I had a Werner 145 at 348 Lbs of engine up front.
I have told this a number of times, If any one wants to check it out check at
Brodhead 2011. Only if I can still get in , and remember where the throttle is.
Pieti Lowell
Don't archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311584#311584
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wing education, please advise.. |
| From: | "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com> |
Joe,
I really don't think the Riblett is going to give you a better glide ratio. If
someone says it 'drops like a rock' they have probably never flown draggy airplanes
from this era, and probably never flown a Piet. The Pietenpol wing is
a fantastic flying airfoil. I regularly haul 420ish pounds of passenger weight
and full fuel of 15 gallons. I have never felt concerned in any way in it's
climb. The stall is gentle and VERY slow. On landing you just have to be ready
for it to give up it's flying speed quickly, just like any old draggy airplane.
If you build it LIGHT and to the plans you will be thrilled with it!
Don Emch
NX899DE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311585#311585
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wing education, please advise.. |
| From: | "Pieti Lowell" <Lowellcfrank(at)yahoo.com> |
Joe.
By the way , If you look just over the wheel, spot a point on the ground, and If
you are flying a Pietenpol airfoil, that is about where you will land.
Pieti Lowell
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311587#311587
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wing education, please advise.. |
| From: | "j_dunavin" <j_dunavin(at)hotmail.com> |
Thanks for the replies.
So in summery it would seem that there is no adverse side affects to going with
a different wing, but the question would remain.. why go that route?
Looks like I need to get some stick time in a piet 8)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311588#311588
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Happy Labor Day |
| From: | "Dan P" <dlplett(at)swko.net> |
winds 33 gusting to 40 Piet is in the hangar. :(
--------
Dan Plett
N28WH
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311592#311592
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wing education, please advise.. |
| From: | "j_dunavin" <j_dunavin(at)hotmail.com> |
> By the way , If you look just over the wheel, spot a point on the ground, and
If you are flying a Pietenpol airfoil, that is about where you will land.
> Pieti Lowell
>
Ya that's what my Dad's friend said, and for some reason he's all worried about
it.
AGH stick with the plans.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311593#311593
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wing education, please advise.. |
| From: | "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com> |
Joe,
If you're ever planning to be in the Northeast Ohio area, please look me up. You'd
be welcome to get some stick time.
Don Emch
NX899DE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311594#311594
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wing education, please advise.. |
| From: | Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
You are probably refering to the Riblett 612 airfoil. If in doubt always
stay with the plans, you will be happy. If I was to build a second Piet/wing
I would probably experiment with the 612. Attached a comparison and
coordinate for both plus the 613.5 just to make things more confusing.
rick
On Mon, Sep 6, 2010 at 2:02 PM, j_dunavin wrote:
>
> We have the plans now, and are going though them in an effort to better
> understand the construction process and to save a little more money.
> This question came up:
> Well I know so and so, who is building a short fues. piet. He says that he
> has a different wing rib layout, and that layout will provide a better glide
> ratio that the one in the plans. So and so says that the original one drops
> like a rock.
> This is kinda frustrating for me as I want to stick with the plans. Every
> aircraft has a glide ratio, and you best distance over alt. drop will depend
> on air density, weight, ect.
> I also think that this other wing must also have a thicker cord, thus
> creating more lift, which would produce more drag. More drag equals less
> airspeed.
> My thinking is that if it was good enough for Mr. Pietenpol, it's going to
> be good enough for me.
>
>
> Anyway. What other wing could my Dad's buddy be talking about?
> What is the glide ratio of the long fues. corvair powered Piet?
> Is there any problem with the aircraft "dropping like a rock" if the engine
> quits? I would think no more than any other aircraft, right?
>
> Please educate me on these other wing designs people are using, and why you
> would consider going away from what works, IE the plans.
>
> Thanks for the help guys
> Joe
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311568#311568
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Eaa conspiracy? |
| From: | "gtche98" <garywilson213(at)yahoo.com> |
As it says in the notes below the obit, these are typically family submitted.
I would suspect EAA simply published it as they received it from the family.
No conspiracy in my mind...
Now if CNN had reported it, I would be a little more skeptical.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311611#311611
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dick N" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
Hey all
I just got back from the Blakesburg, Ia. AAA fly in. It is a great fly
in. Full of antique airplanes, all OSH rejects. I mean no radios,
short grass strip and hundreds of planes you won't see anywhere else in
the world. Just look up Antique Airplane Assn. on Google.
Dick N.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Wayne Bressler <wayne(at)taildraggersinc.com> |
www.antiqueairfield.com
Lots of good photos on their site right now!
Wayne Bressler Jr.
Taildraggers, Inc.
taildraggersinc.com
On Sep 6, 2010, at 8:53 PM, "Dick N" wrote:
> Hey all
> I just got back from the Blakesburg, Ia. AAA fly in. It is a great fly in
. Full of antique airplanes, all OSH rejects. I mean no radios, short gras
s strip and hundreds of planes you won't see anywhere else in the world. Ju
st look up Antique Airplane Assn. on Google.
> Dick N.
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TOM MICHELLE BRANT <tmbrant(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | cabane strut length |
Anyone have any good data on Cabane strut length. Can't find dimensions on
the drawings.
Tom B.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Singleton" <slsingleton(at)cvalley.net> |
| Subject: | Split Axel gear width |
Need some advice-I'm setting up my split axel with 19in wheels and
useing the plans spec of 56in gear width. Just wondering if this is what
most Piets have. Also have the top longerons at about 50in. I do not
have the tires mounted yet so height may be a bit more when done. Any
advice would be apreciated. Thanks. Steve Singleton
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Davis Roger <iyaayas388(at)gmail.com> |
Hey Dick
I spent all day Saturday up there and most of Sunday morning. We were
driving the Model A around the flight line. They said that was the most
planes and people they ever had. To bad we didn't run into to you.
On Mon, Sep 6, 2010 at 7:53 PM, Dick N wrote:
> Hey all
> I just got back from the Blakesburg, Ia. AAA fly in. It is a great fly
> in. Full of antique airplanes, all OSH rejects. I mean no radios, short
> grass strip and hundreds of planes you won't see anywhere else in the
> world. Just look up Antique Airplane Assn. on Google.
> Dick N.
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris" <catdesigns(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | cabane strut length |
Tom B.
Dimensions are on the drawing "Complete wing strut details for improved
aircamper", this is left of the tail wheel drawing and above the drawing
with the Ford engine mount details. The dimensions are shown on the detail
of the "rear right center strut side view". Many have added an inch or two
to the length to ease entry.
Chris
Sacramento, Ca
Westcoastpiet.com
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of TOM MICHELLE
BRANT
Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 8:49 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: cabane strut length
Anyone have any good data on Cabane strut length. Can't find dimensions on
the drawings.
Tom B.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Clif Dawson" <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Color suggestions |
No! no! no! Go get yourself some British Railroad Engine Green and
paint your engine with that. Then get some BRE yellow and pinstripe
the thing. Oh, and all those accessories? Powder coat brass! :-)
Of course, if you do that then you have to have a train horn.
I don't think you should chop the blue off at the seat though. It looks
incomplete.
http://www.pietenpolclub.co.uk/#/g-buco/4534056775
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Color suggestions
> I've struggled over the looks of my Model A engine and finally realize I
> need to clean it up and add some color>
> I already have black and cream and blue powder and matched industrial
> paint of the same colors and would like to use one or all of those. I
> don't want to have to buy any new paint.
>
> Maybe all black? All black big pieces with the little stuff blue? (Julia
> doesn't like that idea)
>
> Attached is a pretty close picture of my eventual overall paint scheme.
> Anyone with a better understanding of what might look good have any
> suggestions for me? Maybe I need to call a share holder's meeting to
> discuss this? :-)
>
> Seriously, I have no idea what would look good but would really appreciate
> any and all suggestions....
>
> jm
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
23:35:00
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Color suggestions |
| From: | "Dan P" <dlplett(at)swko.net> |
CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca wrote:
> No! no! no! Go get yourself some British Railroad Engine Green and
> paint your engine with that. Then get some BRE yellow and pinstripe
> the thing.
>
>
>
Then all your lacking is a John Deere decal. :)
--------
Dan Plett
N28WH
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311647#311647
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Color suggestions |
| From: | "j_dunavin" <j_dunavin(at)hotmail.com> |
I vote for the ford blue, or for the british railroad green with brass idea
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311648#311648
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Split Axel gear width |
>From center of one tire to center of the other, my tread measures 72". I
have 21" wheels.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve
Singleton
Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 11:52 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Split Axel gear width
Need some advice-I'm setting up my split axel with 19in wheels and useing
the plans spec of 56in gear width. Just wondering if this is what most Piets
have. Also have the top longerons at about 50in. I do not have the tires
mounted yet so height may be a bit more when done. Any advice would be
apreciated. Thanks. Steve Singleton
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Color suggestions |
| From: | "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
Engine's gotta be black if you keep the paint scheme that you show in the picture.
I like the green and brass, but not with that paint scheme.
--------
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
Air Camper NX41CC
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311655#311655
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
NX41CC did not fly this Labor Day. Still in the hangar,
working on squawks from the condition inspection. You
know how it is... you pull the cowlings and covers to
work on one thing and you end up doing half a dozen others.
I decided to change the engine thrustline to eliminate
some of the left-turning tendency that the rudder trim tab
does not correct, as well as a bit of nose-up tendency in
cruise. Probably not possible to ever fly the airplane
hands-off, but I'm going to work on it. Using washers on
the engine mount bolts to put the engine at about 2 degrees
downthrust and 2 degrees right thrust. It was set pretty
much straight and level in both axes.
I also had to remake one of the cooling eyebrow mounting
tabs and the bracket that holds it to the engine. Fatigue
cracks.
We'll see how it flies... should be back in the air this
weekend. There is the Critter's Lodge fly-in the 24th
through 26th of this month, then Reklaw October 22-24, and
then a fly-in at Kingsbury Aerodrome on November 13. Maybe
able to make one or two of those.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wing education, please advise.. |
| From: | "tkreiner" <tkreiner(at)gmail.com> |
Joe,
All of the airfoils currently being used will be suitable for the Piet, and the
FC-10 - the original, is widely described in these pages.
My Piet is being built using a three piece wing, with a center section baggage
compartment. The airfoil I've chosen is the Riblett 613.5, which will give me
27% greater baggage compartment volume. If used for a wing tank, 27% greater
fuel volume... In a Piet, with such little room for storage, baggage, cockpit
covers, etc., increasing the size of a baggage compartment might be the most
useful thing you can do to the craft.
Since the plane is plans built, scratch built, and the philosophy of Mr. Pietenpol
was to try different things, like the Corvair, for example, why not use another
airfoil if it provides what you want in the aircraft?
Just my .02 worth.
--------
Tom Kreiner
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311663#311663
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Happy Labor Day |
I may POSSIBLY be taking the RV down to Recklaw so if you make that one....you'll
have a place to stay.
Don't know for sure yet but sure hoping to make it!
jm
-----Original Message-----
>From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
>Sent: Sep 7, 2010 9:18 AM
>To: Pietenpol List
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Happy Labor Day
>
>
>NX41CC did not fly this Labor Day. Still in the hangar,
>working on squawks from the condition inspection. You
>know how it is... you pull the cowlings and covers to
>work on one thing and you end up doing half a dozen others.
>
>I decided to change the engine thrustline to eliminate
>some of the left-turning tendency that the rudder trim tab
>does not correct, as well as a bit of nose-up tendency in
>cruise. Probably not possible to ever fly the airplane
>hands-off, but I'm going to work on it. Using washers on
>the engine mount bolts to put the engine at about 2 degrees
>downthrust and 2 degrees right thrust. It was set pretty
>much straight and level in both axes.
>
>I also had to remake one of the cooling eyebrow mounting
>tabs and the bracket that holds it to the engine. Fatigue
>cracks.
>
>We'll see how it flies... should be back in the air this
>weekend. There is the Critter's Lodge fly-in the 24th
>through 26th of this month, then Reklaw October 22-24, and
>then a fly-in at Kingsbury Aerodrome on November 13. Maybe
>able to make one or two of those.
>
>Oscar Zuniga
>Air Camper NX41CC
>San Antonio, TX
>mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
>website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "kevinpurtee" <kevin.purtee(at)us.army.mil> |
Carson - I used the 2.6.
--------
Kevin Purtee
NX899KP
Austin/Georgetown, TX
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311679#311679
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Continental engine |
Has anyone had experience with a 1954 Continental C-125 Aircraft Engine?
There is a guy on the field who is selling one for $500, don't know if
it has logs yet or not just saw a post.
Brian
SLC-UT
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Singleton" <slsingleton(at)cvalley.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Split Axel gear width |
Thanks Jack-I thought this looked a bit narrow. Steve Singleton
----- Original Message -----
From: Jack Phillips
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 2010 6:34 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Split Axel gear width
From center of one tire to center of the other, my tread measures 72".
I have 21" wheels.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Permision to go to Lee Bottom |
Well, I got the OK from the "Boss" to go down to the Wood, Fabric, And Tail
wheels fly-in.- Now all I need is some good weather for a few days.- Le
aving friday about noon, heading home sat, mid afternoon.- Hope to see so
me of you there.
-
Shad=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Ruse <steve(at)wotelectronics.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Happy Labor Day |
Oscar,
Your note on adding washers to change the thrustline reminded me of
this article I read recently. I'm not suggesting you did anything
wrong by any means, your story simply triggered this in my memory. I
just wanted to throw this out to the group as a reminder that it is
very important to used tried and proven methods and materials when it
comes to airframes, engines and other critical components.
In this report, a Stearman lost his engine in flight. "Lost" as in,
the engine fell off the airplane. This of course drastically changes
the CG and makes the airplane uncontrollable. The Stearman crashed,
killing the pilot.
The accident investigation determined the cause of the crash was the
use of low carbon steel washers on the engine mount bolts. In short,
the low-carbon steel washers compressed more than a higher quality
washer would've done during aerobatic maneuvers. This reduced tension
on the bolts, which resulted in a shearing load being placed on the
bolts rather than this load being passed from the mount to the
airframe through friction on the washers (no bolt tension = no
friction). This allowed the bolts to move slightly, causing fatigue
and eventually failure. Prior to reading this, it would've been easy
(for me at least) to assume that any steel washer would be adequate.
Granted, our engine mounts aren't subject to anywhere near this type
of stress...still, its worth the extra pennies in my opinion to use
tried and proven parts wherever possible (unless you have the
engineering knowledge necessary to deem a part acceptable).
http://www.caa.co.za/resource%20center/accidents%20&%20incid/reports/2007/8321.pdf
Steve Ruse
Norman, OK
Quoting Oscar Zuniga :
>
>
> NX41CC did not fly this Labor Day. Still in the hangar,
> working on squawks from the condition inspection. You
> know how it is... you pull the cowlings and covers to
> work on one thing and you end up doing half a dozen others.
>
> I decided to change the engine thrustline to eliminate
> some of the left-turning tendency that the rudder trim tab
> does not correct, as well as a bit of nose-up tendency in
> cruise. Probably not possible to ever fly the airplane
> hands-off, but I'm going to work on it. Using washers on
> the engine mount bolts to put the engine at about 2 degrees
> downthrust and 2 degrees right thrust. It was set pretty
> much straight and level in both axes.
>
> I also had to remake one of the cooling eyebrow mounting
> tabs and the bracket that holds it to the engine. Fatigue
> cracks.
>
> We'll see how it flies... should be back in the air this
> weekend. There is the Critter's Lodge fly-in the 24th
> through 26th of this month, then Reklaw October 22-24, and
> then a fly-in at Kingsbury Aerodrome on November 13. Maybe
> able to make one or two of those.
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> Air Camper NX41CC
> San Antonio, TX
> mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Split Axel gear width |
| From: | "Billy McCaskill" <billmz(at)cox.net> |
Jack, Steve was asking about the split steel gear, not the wood Jenny-style gear
as you have on your plane. On my plans, the split gear is shown as 56" center
to center between the wheels. However, the wheels shown on the plans are much
more like ATV tires than motorcycle wheels. I think that Don Emch has split
gear and motorcycle tires, maybe he will chime in and discuss how he built
his landing gear.
I see no reason not to make that dimension a bit wider to give better stability
while taxiing and during take-off or landing roll-outs...
Steve, maybe you should block up your fuselage with saw horses (or whatever it
takes) to the proper stance and height to the top longeron that the plane will
have while sitting on the ground, and then take the measurements for your landing
gear so that you can build it to make it sit like it should.
--------
Billy McCaskill
Urbana, IL
tail section almost done, starting on ribs soon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311711#311711
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Yocum <yocum(at)fnal.gov> |
| Subject: | Jeff's camera mount |
Jeff,
A while back you posted how you mounted your video camera to your
Pietenpol, but I can't seem to find how you did it in the archives. Can
you elaborate on what you use and how you mount it?
I mounted my video camera to the rear cabane on N8031 a couple weeks ago
but the vibration of the picture is pretty bad except when the throttle
is almost closed. It's either due to the prop wash or the engine
vibration, but I'm leaning toward prop wash.
Thanks,
Dan
--
Dan Yocum
Fermilab 630.840.6509
yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Split Axel gear width |
| From: | "899PM" <rockriverrifle(at)hotmail.com> |
My split gear with 21" inch wheels is 60" ctr to ctr.
--------
PAPA MIKE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311717#311717
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_2681_122.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | A 1930's Aircraft Print |
Hi.
Spotted a Print of a range of 1930=B9s Homebuilt Aircraft including Sky Scout
and my own Aircraft, a Corben.
Some nice models. 3rd item on web page.
http://ptatransitauthority.blogspot.com/
Regards
Gerry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Jeff's camera mount |
Dan,
I bought an inexpensive mini-tripod. The legs are like angle iron in
shape. When they are folded together, they can be strapped to a
cabane. I use the velcro that the tripod came with plus plenty of
electrician's tape. When I screw the camera to the tripod, it's
upside-down, but your camera may fit rightside-up. Regardless, keep
the camera from touching the tripod. I turn the thumb screw pretty
tightly, plus I wrap tape around the perimeter of the camera twice,
capturing the thumb screw on either side per turn of tape.
There is a photo of a tripod/camera strapped to a tree at this link
that is similar to this:
http://www.amazon.com/Pedco-UltraPod-Lightweight-Camera-Tripod/dp/B000ANCPNM/ref=pd_sim_dbs_p_13
Note that you can find these tripods on the web for $10 or less. Mine
was a promotional Minolta tripod that I got for something like $9
delivered:
http://www.campmor.com/outdoor/gear/Product___87557
HTH,
Jeff
>
>Jeff,
>
>A while back you posted how you mounted your video camera to your
>Pietenpol, but I can't seem to find how you did it in the archives.
>Can you elaborate on what you use and how you mount it?
>
>I mounted my video camera to the rear cabane on N8031 a couple weeks
>ago but the vibration of the picture is pretty bad except when the
>throttle is almost closed. It's either due to the prop wash or the
>engine vibration, but I'm leaning toward prop wash.
>
>Thanks,
>Dan
>
>--
>Dan Yocum
>Fermilab 630.840.6509
>yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
>"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
--
---
Jeffrey H. Boatright, Ph.D.
Associate Professor of Ophthalmology
Emory University School of Medicine
Editor-in-Chief
Molecular Vision
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Jeff's camera mount |
Oops. I meant to write: "Keep the camera from touching the cabane."
I find if it touches any part of the plane, it picks up vibration in
the film pretty badly.
>
>Dan,
>
>I bought an inexpensive mini-tripod. The legs are like angle iron in
>shape. When they are folded together, they can be strapped to a
>cabane. I use the velcro that the tripod came with plus plenty of
>electrician's tape. When I screw the camera to the tripod, it's
>upside-down, but your camera may fit rightside-up. Regardless, keep
>the camera from touching the tripod. I turn the thumb screw pretty
>tightly, plus I wrap tape around the perimeter of the camera twice,
>capturing the thumb screw on either side per turn of tape.
>
>There is a photo of a tripod/camera strapped to a tree at this link
>that is similar to this:
>
>http://www.amazon.com/Pedco-UltraPod-Lightweight-Camera-Tripod/dp/B000ANCPNM/ref=pd_sim_dbs_p_13
>
>Note that you can find these tripods on the web for $10 or less.
>Mine was a promotional Minolta tripod that I got for something like
>$9 delivered:
>
>http://www.campmor.com/outdoor/gear/Product___87557
>
>HTH,
>
>Jeff
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Happy Labor Day |
| From: | Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com> |
A pretty simple rule to abide by when trying to determine what hardware to
use: if it's going on an aircraft, then it should be aircraft grade
AN/MS/NAS hardware....
Ryan
On Tue, Sep 7, 2010 at 6:34 PM, Dan P wrote:
>
> That it is. Another concern that goes hand in hand with tried and true
> construction is the quality of the fasteners themselves. Many of the bolts
> that lumber yards and hardware store sell do not meet the grade rating
> stamped on the bolts, nuts and washers.
>
> One of the local pilots told of a Pitts crash where two people were killed.
> The investigation determined that bolts/nuts that fastening the tail had
> pulled the threads out of the nut. The bolts were bought at a hardware
> store. Be sure your buying quality fasteners. Lawson is one brand I use
> that is top quality
>
> --------
> Dan Plett
> N28WH
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311745#311745
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wing education, please advise.. |
| From: | "Pieti Lowell" <Lowellcfrank(at)yahoo.com> |
One more thought:
Check out which airfoil is flying when the ambient temperatures are in the high
90's, and you want to take a friend that weights over 200 , up to cooler air.
You just might need an 0200 or more to even get off the runway. Only my experiences
of many thousand hours since 1941, has taught me a few well learned lessons.
By the way, did Mr Pietenpol ever install a Corvair engine with out the supplied
blower ?
Pieti Lowell
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311750#311750
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | What to look for in a 3/4 built Pietenpol |
| From: | "JGriff" <jgriffith19(at)comcast.net> |
I may go look at a partially built Pietenpol that sounds like it is on its gear
and mostly covered. I think it is a short fuselage, 3 piece wing, and has an
A65 that has 800 hours but hasn't run in a while. It's been a 10 year project
that the builder has lost interest in. Unfortunately I couldn't get a lot of information
due to spotty cell phone reception but I'm going to call back later
this week to get more info. I may go look at it this weekend but if I do what
are some of the things I should look for? Are there some gotchas I should keep
an eye open for? I need help coming up with a checklist and questions I should
be asking so any help is appreciated.
Thanks.
Jamie
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311751#311751
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Singleton" <slsingleton(at)cvalley.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Split Axel gear width |
>I have my fuselage blocked up and my axles set where the longeron will be
>at 51in. The 56 looked a bit narrow so i moved the wheels out to 60in. To
>me this still seems narrow. I really enjoy the building process but will be
>much glad when this gear is done. Steve S
Jack, Steve was asking about the split steel gear, not the wood Jenny-style
gear as you have on your plane. On my plans, the split gear is shown as 56"
center to center between the wheels. However, the wheels shown on the plans
are much more like ATV tires than motorcycle wheels. I think that Don Emch
has split gear and motorcycle tires, maybe he will chime in and discuss how
he built his landing gear.
>
> I see no reason not to make that dimension a bit wider to give better
> stability while taxiing and during take-off or landing roll-outs...
>
> Steve, maybe you should block up your fuselage with saw horses (or
> whatever it takes) to the proper stance and height to the top longeron
> that the plane will have while sitting on the ground, and then take the
> measurements for your landing gear so that you can build it to make it sit
> like it should.
>
> --------
> Billy McCaskill
> Urbana, IL
> tail section almost done, starting on ribs soon
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311711#311711
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Review of Blakesburg Antique Aircraft Association flyin |
| From: | "ldmill" <lorin.miller(at)emerson.com> |
Went to Blakesburg, Iowa this year for the 4th year in a row - the big difference
being that I actually got to fly myself there this time. I flew the GN-1 in
on Saturday, September 4th. The weather was absolutely gorgeous! Severe clear
with winds out of the west at about 6 mph - direct crosswind for the north/south
grass strip.
As I landed, I noticed there was a crowd of around 75 - 100 folks in the "peanut
gallery" critiquing landings - which means that mine was definitely not as
good as I'd have liked it to be - but hey - nothing got damaged...
Taxiing to the assigned parking spot on the south east side of the field - it
was like going down the red carpet in Hollywood - about 100 people lined the run
and camera's were snapping. They pretty much did this to every non-spam-can
plane that landed, but it sure made the old girl happy as she putt-putted past
the line of Fairchilds, Curtiss Robins, Howard DGA's, Stearmans, Meyers, and
a host of other golden oldies. Talk about a slice of heaven!
I had probably 75-80 people stop by the plane and talk to me about it - it was
amazing how many had actually either built a Piet, were building a Piet, thier
grandpa/uncle/dad had build a Piet - or were thinking about building one. There
was a ton of interest in this design.
The old girl didn't win the dead grass award for the day - but she sure came away
happy knowing that even though she's getting a little old - she's can still
turn a young man's head...
Cheers!
Lorin
--------
Lorin Miller
Waiex N81YX
GN-1 N30PP
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311753#311753
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/blakesburgn30pp_153.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Split Axel gear width |
| From: | Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
My split gear with 8.0x6 tires ends up at 62" tire center to center.
rick
On Tue, Sep 7, 2010 at 6:31 PM, Steve Singleton wrote:
> slsingleton(at)cvalley.net>
>
> I have my fuselage blocked up and my axles set where the longeron will be
>> at 51in. The 56 looked a bit narrow so i moved the wheels out to 60in. To me
>> this still seems narrow. I really enjoy the building process but will be
>> much glad when this gear is done. Steve S
>>
>
>
> Jack, Steve was asking about the split steel gear, not the wood Jenny-style
> gear as you have on your plane. On my plans, the split gear is shown as 56"
> center to center between the wheels. However, the wheels shown on the plans
> are much more like ATV tires than motorcycle wheels. I think that Don Emch
> has split gear and motorcycle tires, maybe he will chime in and discuss how
> he built his landing gear.
>
>>
>> I see no reason not to make that dimension a bit wider to give better
>> stability while taxiing and during take-off or landing roll-outs...
>>
>> Steve, maybe you should block up your fuselage with saw horses (or
>> whatever it takes) to the proper stance and height to the top longeron that
>> the plane will have while sitting on the ground, and then take the
>> measurements for your landing gear so that you can build it to make it sit
>> like it should.
>>
>> --------
>> Billy McCaskill
>> Urbana, IL
>> tail section almost done, starting on ribs soon
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311711#311711
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Happy Labor Day |
| From: | "Billy McCaskill" <billmz(at)cox.net> |
Good rule, Ryan. Hard to go wrong that way...
--------
Billy McCaskill
Urbana, IL
tail section almost done, starting on ribs soon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311763#311763
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TOM MICHELLE BRANT <tmbrant(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | What to look for in a 3/4 built Pietenpol |
I'd say to definately find out what glue was used and the procedure=2C mix
ratios etc... Some are very particular on how they're done.
Check out the joints as much as you can see them. Are the joints tightly m
ade or are there large gaps? Check to see that it is square - bring your o
wn measuring tools too. Check weld quality - by quality I guess all you'll
be able to see if if the welds look pretty clean and even or are they real
ly irregular and full of holes and slag.
If you have the plans=2C take them with you and check out as many dimension
s as you can.
Someone else may pipe up on the engine but I guess first and foremost - doe
s it turn over and does it have compression? If it's sat a long time the b
earings may be pretty dry - might plan a rebuild into the cost just to be s
ure you're not getting screwed.
If the price is right and it looks to be of average or better quality=2C yo
u probably have a winner.
My $0.02
Tom B.
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: What to look for in a 3/4 built Pietenpol
> From: jgriffith19(at)comcast.net
> Date: Tue=2C 7 Sep 2010 17:31:15 -0700
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>
>
> I may go look at a partially built Pietenpol that sounds like it is on it
s gear and mostly covered. I think it is a short fuselage=2C 3 piece wing
=2C and has an A65 that has 800 hours but hasn't run in a while. It's been
a 10 year project that the builder has lost interest in. Unfortunately I co
uldn't get a lot of information due to spotty cell phone reception but I'm
going to call back later this week to get more info. I may go look at it th
is weekend but if I do what are some of the things I should look for? Are t
here some gotchas I should keep an eye open for? I need help coming up with
a checklist and questions I should be asking so any help is appreciated.
> Thanks.
> Jamie
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311751#311751
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Continental engine |
| From: | "Jerry Dotson" <jdotson(at)erec.net> |
I am vaguely. The only aircraft I remember seeing that used them was the Swift.
Continental made a gazillion of this type engine. It was a 6 cylinder version
of the C-85. Displacement is 282 cu. in.
The C-145 and the O-300 were developed from the C-125 just a little more stroke.
C75,C-85 and C-125 cylinders are the same part number. So I would think it would
be a pretty good engine design wise. Most of those C-125's on the Swift have
been replaced with Lycoming O-360's not from a reliability standpoint but
to get more speed and climb.
--------
Jerry Dotson
59 Daniel Johnson Rd
Baker, FL 32531
Started building NX510JD July, 2009
Ribs and tailfeathers done
using Lycoming O-235
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311767#311767
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: What to look for in a 3/4 built Pietenpol |
| From: | "Billy McCaskill" <billmz(at)cox.net> |
Also find out what type of wood was used in the construction. Not everyone has
used spruce to build an airplane with, or aircraft grade plywood. There are
acceptable substitutes for spruce, but you can't use just any ol' wood that kinda
looks like it might be ok. Look for any major deviations from the plans,
and if there are any, ask why they were made.
Look at the hardware that was used. Is it AN hardware? Is there a builder's log
or any photo documentation of the build? Is there a log with the engine?
Sloppy building procedures and processes are usually readily apparent but sometimes
the basic craftsmanship can very good but still not be airworthy just because
the builder did not have any experience with aircraft building. Building
an airplane isn't the same thing as building a nice bookcase for the family
room...
--------
Billy McCaskill
Urbana, IL
tail section almost done, starting on ribs soon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311773#311773
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jorge lizarraga <flightwood(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Continental engine |
if you cand buy it later found the log think is for 500. the a65 is 2,500 i
n groun rusty part needed over hole ..
--- On Tue, 9/7/10, brian.e.jardine@l-3com.com
wrote:
From: brian.e.jardine@l-3com.com <brian.e.jardine@l-3com.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Continental engine
Date: Tuesday, September 7, 2010, 8:21 AM
Has anyone had experience with a 1954 Continental C-125 Aircraft Engine?
There is a guy on the field who is selling one for $500, don't know if
it has logs yet or not just saw a post.
Brian
SLC-UT
le, List Admin.
=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jorge lizarraga <flightwood(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: cabane strut length |
hi tom im builder from hanford and my blue print say if you ask about cente
r ones mens cockpit be front ones 21-1/4" bolt to bolt and rear ones 20-1/4
" bolt to bolt if you one put in fron side thoses toll guys you need add 2"
more in each one. section if you ask for the wing struts is front and back
89- 3/4' plas modification if your add 2"in center one I hope these dates
helpyou tanks for lisening jorge from hanford
--- On Mon, 9/6/10, TOM MICHELLE BRANT wrote:
From: TOM MICHELLE BRANT <tmbrant(at)msn.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: cabane strut length
Date: Monday, September 6, 2010, 8:48 PM
Anyone have any good data on Cabane strut length.- Can't find dimensions
on the drawings.
Tom B.
=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wing education, please advise.. |
| From: | "Billy McCaskill" <billmz(at)cox.net> |
I think what Pieti is saying is that if you build your plane with the original
FC-10 airfoil that you will have a perfectly serviceable, good flying plane.
But if you substitute the GA30-612 Riblett airfoil, you will have a much better
flying airplane. Based on his experience (lots of it), and not just theory
and opinion, I'm inclined to believe what he has to say. Here's a clip where
he talks about the merits of the Riblett airfoils and his experience with them...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHHnzw1V5FY
I personally plan to build the 612 airfoil for mine, otherwise I am sticking rather
tenaciously to the plans (aside from using one of those confounded Crank
Snappin' Corvair motors).
--------
Billy McCaskill
Urbana, IL
tail section almost done, starting on ribs soon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311778#311778
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Split Axel gear width |
| From: | "899PM" <rockriverrifle(at)hotmail.com> |
I measured last night...mine is 62", not 60" as indicated earlier.
--------
PAPA MIKE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311792#311792
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: What to look for in a 3/4 built Pietenpol |
| From: | "tkreiner" <tkreiner(at)gmail.com> |
Jamie,
Along with the comments above, if you see the builders log, you might ask for any
receipts the builder has accumulated... These will show you exactly what was
assembled along the way.
just my .02.
--------
Tom Kreiner
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311793#311793
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: What to look for in a 3/4 built Pietenpol |
| From: | "tkreiner" <tkreiner(at)gmail.com> |
Jamie,
Along with the comments above, if you see the builders log, you might ask for any
receipts the builder has accumulated... These will show you exactly what was
assembled along the way.
just my .02.
--------
Tom Kreiner
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311798#311798
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB" <steven.d.dortch(at)us.army.mil> |
| Subject: | Re: What to look for in a 3/4 built Pietenpol |
OK Is this a Pietenpol that is 75%complete or a 3/4 Scale Pietenpol? (LOL)
----- Original Message -----
From: JGriff <jgriffith19(at)comcast.net>
Date: Tuesday, September 7, 2010 19:36
Subject: Pietenpol-List: What to look for in a 3/4 built Pietenpol
>
> I may go look at a partially built Pietenpol that sounds like it is on its gear
and mostly covered. I think it is a short fuselage, 3 piece
> wing, and has an A65 that has 800 hours but hasn't run in a while.
> It's been a 10 year project that the builder has lost interest in.
> Unfortunately I couldn't get a lot of information due to spotty
> cell phone reception but I'm going to call back later this week to
> get more info. I may go look at it this weekend but if I do what
> are some of the things I should look for? Are there some gotchas I
> should keep an eye open for? I need help coming up with a
> checklist and questions I should be asking so any help is appreciated.
> Thanks.
> Jamie
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311751#311751
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wing education, please advise.. |
| From: | "gtche98" <garywilson213(at)yahoo.com> |
For those using the GA30-612 or GA30-613.5 airfoils, are you designing your own
trusses, or are there standard truss designs for these airfoils? In my search
of the archives, I have learned how to use the proper names of the airfoils
( :D )and I have found information that would indicate that a 613.5 may be a
good choice for me (at 225lbs). Unfortunately, I have found nothing on truss
design for using these with a piet.
Thanks for any insight. I hope to start my ribs before the end of the year, and
am asking myself the same questions that Joe is asking.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311811#311811
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Yocum <yocum(at)fnal.gov> |
I retract the following statement - I really meant to say that 28 3/4"
is a better dimension since 28 3/4" matches the attach points on the
fuselage.
Dan
On 08/29/2010 02:34 PM, Dan Yocum wrote:
> I disagree. I think 29" on-center is a better dimension. It matches the 29" between
the attach points on the fuse. And even though WW thinks it's a misguided
belief that one can shift the wing back and forth to correct for CoG issues,
a perfect parallelogram *will* allow for such shifting. I do agree with his
assessment that the attach points for the diagonal cabanes should be heavy duty,
permanent jobs, if not welded, but that's a different issue.
>
> Dan
>
--
Dan Yocum
Fermilab 630.840.6509
yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Yocum <yocum(at)fnal.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing education, please advise.. |
On 09/06/2010 03:48 PM, Pieti Lowell wrote:
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Pieti Lowell"
>
> Joe,
> I have flown the Pietenpol, a 4412 and the last wing is the Riblett 612 since
2004, the test that I tried from 3000 Ft, I shut the Ford to idle. glided 9 miles
to the airport, had to side slip to the runway, an never touched the throttle
until taxi time. And my wing is clipped 2 Ft.
> All on a 74 Deg. day at 850Ft. airport elevation. It is not slower, and it lifts
very well, even when I had a Werner 145 at 348 Lbs of engine up front.
> I have told this a number of times, If any one wants to check it out check at
Brodhead 2011. Only if I can still get in , and remember where the throttle
is.
That's an L/D ratio of about 15:1. Not bad. That's twice as good as a
C-152 (~8:1).
Dan
--
Dan Yocum
Fermilab 630.840.6509
yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Yocum <yocum(at)fnal.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing education, please advise.. |
Gary,
For my Riblett 612 rib, I based the number of trusses on the FC-10.
I placed the front spar location as the same as the FC-10 and the rear
spar at 28-3/4", on center, from the front spar.
I made the 5 trusses between the front and rear spar the same size -
8-5/16".
The last upright I kept in the same place as the FC-10, so the ailerons
will be the same size on the Riblett 612.
One thing I'll restate here, when using the Riblett 612, build all 4
cabanes to be the same length. Why? When you place the front and rear
spars on the bottom capstrip of the ribs, this will automatically build
in a 1 degree of angle of incidence which is what should be used with
the Riblett 612 airfoil.
Dan
On 09/08/2010 09:31 AM, gtche98 wrote:
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "gtche98"
>
> For those using the GA30-612 or GA30-613.5 airfoils, are you designing your own
trusses, or are there standard truss designs for these airfoils? In my search
of the archives, I have learned how to use the proper names of the airfoils
( :D )and I have found information that would indicate that a 613.5 may be
a good choice for me (at 225lbs). Unfortunately, I have found nothing on truss
design for using these with a piet.
>
> Thanks for any insight. I hope to start my ribs before the end of the year,
and am asking myself the same questions that Joe is asking.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311811#311811
>
>
--
Dan Yocum
Fermilab 630.840.6509
yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dick N" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
I sawyou there in the Model A. Too bad I didn't know it was you. Next
year I am planning on flying down there for a few days.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: Davis Roger
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 11:22 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fly in
Hey Dick
I spent all day Saturday up there and most of Sunday morning. We were
driving the Model A around the flight line. They said that was the most
planes and people they ever had. To bad we didn't run into to you.
On Mon, Sep 6, 2010 at 7:53 PM, Dick N
wrote:
Hey all
I just got back from the Blakesburg, Ia. AAA fly in. It is a great
fly in. Full of antique airplanes, all OSH rejects. I mean no radios,
short grass strip and hundreds of planes you won't see anywhere else in
the world. Just look up Antique Airplane Assn. on Google.
Dick N.
" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wing education, please advise.. |
| From: | "tkreiner" <tkreiner(at)gmail.com> |
Gary, et al,
When I took it upon myself to develop the truss pieces, angles, etc., I made a
solid model of the entire wing to set things up.
My GA30-613.5 Rib Drawing has truss pieces laid out so that the drag and anti-drag
wires fit entirely within the trusses without any cutting required. Some
Piets - and other wings, as well - have truss pieces cut to make room for the
drag wires, and either above or below the cut, there is a splice. Alternatively,
some builders have rib spacing of 11 to 13 inches, rather than the plan specified
dim. of 12 in. This took several extra hours of time, but the result
is clearance all around the truss pieces.
I've attached a couple of jpegs that show the layout.
--------
Tom Kreiner
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311830#311830
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/drag_layout_2_196.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/drag_layout_983.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ALAN LYSCARS" <alyscars(at)myfairpoint.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing education, please advise.. |
Tom,
Following your narrative with great interest; "pegs" didn't show up.
Al Lyscars
----- Original Message -----
From: tkreiner
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 12:40 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing education, please advise..
Gary, et al,
When I took it upon myself to develop the truss pieces, angles, etc.,
I made a solid model of the entire wing to set things up.
My GA30-613.5 Rib Drawing has truss pieces laid out so that the drag
and anti-drag wires fit entirely within the trusses without any cutting
required. Some Piets - and other wings, as well - have truss pieces cut
to make room for the drag wires, and either above or below the cut,
there is a splice. Alternatively, some builders have rib spacing of 11
to 13 inches, rather than the plan specified dim. of 12 in. This took
several extra hours of time, but the result is clearance all around the
truss pieces.
I've attached a couple of jpegs that show the layout.
--------
Tom Kreiner
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311830#311830
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/drag_layout_2_196.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/drag_layout_983.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wing education, please advise.. |
| From: | "tkreiner" <tkreiner(at)gmail.com> |
Al,
Are you reading the email summary, or looking at the actual Matronics forums?
I'm able to see the jpegs large as can be...
Let me know.
--------
Tom Kreiner
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311836#311836
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack" <jack(at)textors.com> |
| Subject: | need a different part |
Raymond check these out... http://www.lathes.co.uk/index.html
http://www.wswells.com they helped a bunch with my South Bend...
Jack
DSM
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of skellytown
flyer
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 8:15 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: need a different part
I know it's pretty far off-topic but I stopped working on my project
yesterday to help a friend do some machine work on his. we were cutting a
groove on a flange on his ancient 17" Leblond lathe and the tool
hung-instead of snapping the tool it broke the whole end off the compound
rest.I am sure hoping someone knows about an old junked lathe or someone who
salvages them we might be able to find parts from.it probably wouldn't have
to even be the same brand if the swivel base would bolt down.I'd sure like
to get back to my project. I was almost done installing the ELT and ready to
do some electrical work in the panel. thanks for any help.and do not
archive. Raymond
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311801#311801
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ALAN LYSCARS" <alyscars(at)myfairpoint.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing education, please advise.. |
Tom,
I'm plugged into the piet list to receive all mail as it's sent. Didn't
see an attachment on your post.
Al
----- Original Message -----
From: tkreiner
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 12:59 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing education, please advise..
Al,
Are you reading the email summary, or looking at the actual Matronics
forums?
I'm able to see the jpegs large as can be...
Let me know.
--------
Tom Kreiner
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311836#311836
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wing education, please advise.. |
| From: | gboothe5(at)comcast.net |
RGlkIHlvdSBzY3JvbGwgdG8gdGhlIGJvdHRvbT8gSSBvZnRlbiBmb3JnZXQgdG8gZG8gdGhhdC4u
Lg0KDQpHYXJ5IEJvb3RoZQ0KU2VudCBvbiB0aGUgU3ByaW50riBOb3cgTmV0d29yayBmcm9tIG15
IEJsYWNrQmVycnmuDQoNCi0tLS0tT3JpZ2luYWwgTWVzc2FnZS0tLS0tDQpGcm9tOiAiQUxBTiBM
WVNDQVJTIiA8YWx5c2NhcnNAbXlmYWlycG9pbnQubmV0Pg0KU2VuZGVyOiBvd25lci1waWV0ZW5w
b2wtbGlzdC1zZXJ2ZXJAbWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbQ0KRGF0ZTogV2VkLCA4IFNlcCAyMDEwIDEzOjMz
OjA1IA0KVG86IDxwaWV0ZW5wb2wtbGlzdEBtYXRyb25pY3MuY29tPg0KUmVwbHktVG86IHBpZXRl
bnBvbC1saXN0QG1hdHJvbmljcy5jb21TdWJqZWN0OiBSZTogUGlldGVucG9sLUxpc3Q6IFJlOiBX
aW5nIGVkdWNhdGlvbiwgcGxlYXNlIGFkdmlzZS4uDQoNClRoaXMgaXMgYSBtdWx0aS1wYXJ0IG1l
c3NhZ2UgaW4gTUlNRSBmb3JtYXQuDQoNCg=
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Yocum <yocum(at)fnal.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing education, please advise.. |
They're not actually "attached" to the email. There are links to the
jpegs below the word "Attachments:"
To save you time, here are the links that he "Attached"
http://forums.matronics.com//files/drag_layout_2_196.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/drag_layout_983.jpg
Dan
On 09/08/2010 12:33 PM, ALAN LYSCARS wrote:
> Tom,
> I'm plugged into the piet list to receive all mail as it's sent. Didn't
> see an attachment on your post.
> Al
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* tkreiner
> *To:* pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 08, 2010 12:59 PM
> *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing education, please advise..
>
> >
>
> Al,
>
> Are you reading the email summary, or looking at the actual
> Matronics forums?
>
> I'm able to see the jpegs large as can be...
>
> Let me know.
>
> --------
> Tom Kreiner
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311836#311836
>
>
> http://www.matnbsp; via the Web
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List>
> _p; generous bsp;
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c================
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
--
Dan Yocum
Fermilab 630.840.6509
yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Boyer <boyerjrb(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing education, please advise.. |
I have many hours flying Cessna 150's, etc and just one ride in a Piet but
from that ride and hours flying Cessna's I just have to say
if you believe the Piets glide ratio better than a 150's, well we have this
bridge for sale here just South of us going to San Francisco.
Jim B.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Yocum" <yocum(at)fnal.gov>
Sent: Wednesday, September 8, 2010 8:15:26 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing education, please advise..
On 09/06/2010 03:48 PM, Pieti Lowell wrote:
> --> =C2-Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Pieti Lowell"
>
> Joe,
> I have flown the Pietenpol, a 4412 and the last wing is the Riblett 612 s
ince 2004, the test that I tried from 3000 Ft, I shut the Ford to idle. gli
ded 9 miles to the airport, had to side slip to the runway, an never touche
d the throttle until taxi time. And my wing is clipped 2 Ft.
> All on a 74 Deg. day =C2-at 850Ft. airport elevation. It is not slower,
and it lifts very well, even when I had a Werner 145 at 348 Lbs of engine
up front.
> I have told this a number of times, If any one wants to check it out =C2
-check at Brodhead 2011. Only if I can still get in , and remember where
the throttle is.
That's an L/D ratio of about 15:1. =C2-Not bad. =C2-That's twice as goo
d as a
C-152 (~8:1).
Dan
--
Dan Yocum
Fermilab =C2-630.840.6509
yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
===========
===========
MS -
===========
e -
=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2--Matt Dralle, List Admin.
===========
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Happy Labor Day |
| From: | "Dan P" <dlplett(at)swko.net> |
Even with aircraft grade AN/MS/NAS hardware use only new fasteners in critical
locations. It is easy and economical to use used bulk surplus bolts but it
can be difficult to determine their previous application and how they were stressed
in that application.
Build it like your life depends on it. :)
--------
Dan Plett
N28WH
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311856#311856
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ALAN LYSCARS" <alyscars(at)myfairpoint.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing education, please advise.. |
Molto bene Gracia Dan,
Al
----- Original Message -----
From: Dan Yocum
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 2:01 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing education, please advise..
They're not actually "attached" to the email. There are links to the
jpegs below the word "Attachments:"
To save you time, here are the links that he "Attached"
http://forums.matronics.com//files/drag_layout_2_196.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/drag_layout_983.jpg
Dan
On 09/08/2010 12:33 PM, ALAN LYSCARS wrote:
> Tom,
> I'm plugged into the piet list to receive all mail as it's sent.
Didn't
> see an attachment on your post.
> Al
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* tkreiner
> *To:* pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 08, 2010 12:59 PM
> *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing education, please advise..
>
>
>
> Al,
>
> Are you reading the email summary, or looking at the actual
> Matronics forums?
>
> I'm able to see the jpegs large as can be...
>
> Let me know.
>
> --------
> Tom Kreiner
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311836#311836
>
>
> http://www.matnbsp; via the Web
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List>
> _p; generous bsp;
>
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
================
>
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
--
Dan Yocum
Fermilab 630.840.6509
yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Continental engine |
| From: | "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca> |
No personal experience here, just an opinion.
Sounds like too much engine for this little plane.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continental_C-125
1) The C-125 is rated at 125 HP. That's 3 times the power of a Ford A, and 2 times
that of a Continental A-65. While it would be nice to have a bit more power,
at times, this sounds a bit excessive.
2) It has a dry weight of about 290 lbs. That's a full hundred pounds more than
a C-85. Haven't yet heard any builders wish they had built their Piet a bit heavier,
but I HAVE heard builders wish they had built lighter.
There's been a bit of chatter on the List here lately about using bigger powerplants,
mostly as a means to lift bigger pilots. My opinion (and I know nobody
asked for it, but here it is anyway - feel free to ignore it) is that if you're
planning to stick a big engine in a Piet, you should probably build a bigger
Piet to go with it. Probably just scaling everything (wings and tail, too - not
just fuselage width) up by 5 or 10% would create enough room for the "full-figured"
pilot, and sticking a 100 to 125 HP motor on the nose would be a good
match. Of course, anyone thinking about making such a change would need to do
(or find someone who is qualified to do) the necessary stress calculations for
this "new" aircraft.
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311863#311863
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Split Axel gear width |
| From: | "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com> |
The only change I made in the gear was to add brakes. In doing so I made my hubs
so that the center of the rim was offset by 2" outboard to allow room for the
drum. In order to allow for the wider hubs I lengthened each axle by 2".
This opened my gear tread to 60". In using 19" rims it may seem a bit tall and
narrow but it really has never presented a problem.
Don Emch
NX899DE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311869#311869
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wing education, please advise.. |
| From: | "Pieti Lowell" <Lowellcfrank(at)yahoo.com> |
Dan,
You are correct on the cabane length, I left mine as they were on the drawings
and found that when I went to the 612, it required a lot of forward stick pressure
to hold straight and level,at speeds over 70.
So my questions to you guys, which would be better and or easier, shorten the the
forward or lengthen the rear cabanes to remain at 1 degree. It is more complex
than one thinks.
Pieti Lowell
Don't archive
]
For those using the GA30-612 or GA30-613.5 airfoils, are you designing your own
trusses, or are there standard truss designs for these airfoils? In my search
of the archives, I have learned how to use the proper names of the airfoils
( :D )and I have found information that would indicate that a 613.5 may be a
good choice for me (at 225lbs). Unfortunately, I have found nothing on truss
design for using these with a piet.
Thanks for any insight. I hope to start my ribs before the end of the year, and
am asking myself the same questions that Joe is asking.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311811#311811
[/quote]
--
Dan Yocum
Fermilab 630.840.6509
yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."[/quote]
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311873#311873
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing education, please advise.. |
With the original piet airfoil on 92GB, she glides about like a 150 with 20
degrees of flaps.- She weighs in about 735 empty.- With the Corvair We
still get 75-80mph at 4.8-5.0 gph.-
-
Shad
--- On Wed, 9/8/10, Jim Boyer wrote:
From: Jim Boyer <boyerjrb(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing education, please advise..
Date: Wednesday, September 8, 2010, 3:11 PM
#yiv798603033 p {margin:0;}
I have many hours flying Cessna 150's, etc and just one ride in a Piet but
from that ride and hours flying Cessna's I just have to say
if you believe the Piets glide ratio better than a 150's, well we have this
bridge for sale here just South of us going to San Francisco.
Jim B.
-
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Yocum" <yocum(at)fnal.gov>
Sent: Wednesday, September 8, 2010 8:15:26 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing education, please advise..
On 09/06/2010 03:48 PM, Pieti Lowell wrote:
> --> -Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Pieti Lowell"
>
> Joe,
> I have flown the Pietenpol, a 4412 and the last wing is the Riblett 612 s
ince 2004, the test that I tried from 3000 Ft, I shut the Ford to idle. gli
ded 9 miles to the airport, had to side slip to the runway, an never touche
d the throttle until taxi time. And my wing is clipped 2 Ft.
> All on a 74 Deg. day -at 850Ft. airport elevation. It is not slower, an
d it lifts very well, even when I had a Werner 145 at 348 Lbs of engine up
front.
> I have told this a number of times, If any one wants to check it out -c
heck at Brodhead 2011. Only if I can still get in , and remember where the
throttle is.
That's an L/D ratio of about 15:1. -Not bad. -That's twice as good as a
C-152 (~8:1).
Dan
--
Dan Yocum
Fermilab -630.840.6509
yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
"I flp; - - - - - - - - --Matt Dral=======
=====
=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wing education, please advise.. |
| From: | "Billy McCaskill" <billmz(at)cox.net> |
> So my questions to you guys, which would be better and or easier, shorten the
the forward or lengthen the rear cabanes to remain at 1 degree. It is more complex
than one thinks.
> Pieti Lowell
I vote for making the rear cabanes 1" longer, rather than making the front ones
shorter. This will give a little bit more room for the passenger who has to
squeeze himself into the front office.
But on the other hand, no additional streamline tubing material will be required
if you were to shorten the front cabanes instead... The end result will yield
the required angle of incidence whichever method you choose.
--------
Billy McCaskill
Urbana, IL
tail section almost done, starting on ribs soon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311885#311885
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack" <jack(at)textors.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Continental engine |
Bill,
Don't forget to beef up the mounts and front end. I would be concerned with
the additional stresses up front...my two cents
Jack
DSM
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Church
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 4:15 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Continental engine
No personal experience here, just an opinion.
Sounds like too much engine for this little plane.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continental_C-125
1) The C-125 is rated at 125 HP. That's 3 times the power of a Ford A, and 2
times that of a Continental A-65. While it would be nice to have a bit more
power, at times, this sounds a bit excessive.
2) It has a dry weight of about 290 lbs. That's a full hundred pounds more
than a C-85. Haven't yet heard any builders wish they had built their Piet a
bit heavier, but I HAVE heard builders wish they had built lighter.
There's been a bit of chatter on the List here lately about using bigger
powerplants, mostly as a means to lift bigger pilots. My opinion (and I know
nobody asked for it, but here it is anyway - feel free to ignore it) is that
if you're planning to stick a big engine in a Piet, you should probably
build a bigger Piet to go with it. Probably just scaling everything (wings
and tail, too - not just fuselage width) up by 5 or 10% would create enough
room for the "full-figured" pilot, and sticking a 100 to 125 HP motor on the
nose would be a good match. Of course, anyone thinking about making such a
change would need to do (or find someone who is qualified to do) the
necessary stress calculations for this "new" aircraft.
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311863#311863
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: need a different part |
| From: | "skellytown flyer" <skellflyer1(at)yahoo.com> |
Jack thank you very much for the link. I sent an e-mail and hopefully will find
something.I can adapt about any brand if the dimensions are close.so if you think
of anyone that has some salvage machines I'd sure be glad to hear about them.sure
don't want to leave my friend with a broken machine. Raymond
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311888#311888
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Continental engine |
| From: | "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca> |
Agreed, Jack.
Like I said, a qualified person would need to do all the necessary stress calculations.
That would include checking the cross-sections of structural members,
as well as all fittings, AND the motor mount/attachment.
Not something to monkey around with if one doesn't really know what one is doing.
I'm sticking with the plans, and installing a C-75.
But if I was a bigger guy, I'd think about a Super Piet
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311889#311889
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: need a different part |
| From: | Davis Roger <iyaayas388(at)gmail.com> |
Here is another company located in Fairfield, Iowa. They rebuild a lot of
machinery. http://www.usedtooling.com/home.php
On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 8:33 PM, skellytown flyer wrote:
> skellflyer1(at)yahoo.com>
>
> Jack thank you very much for the link. I sent an e-mail and hopefully will
> find something.I can adapt about any brand if the dimensions are close.so if
> you think of anyone that has some salvage machines I'd sure be glad to hear
> about them.sure don't want to leave my friend with a broken machine. Raymond
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311888#311888
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Continental engine |
| From: | "Billy McCaskill" <billmz(at)cox.net> |
Another option, provided the C-125 is serviceable and has logs, it to buy and trade
it for another engine more suitable for your Piet. Nobody said that you HAVE
TO use this engine if you buy it... kinda like the idea of never turning
down a Corvair engine core even if it's not one that's usable for converting for
flight use. It might be just the thing that someone else is looking for.
--------
Billy McCaskill
Urbana, IL
tail section almost done, starting on ribs soon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311895#311895
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Yocum <yocum(at)fnal.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing education, please advise.. |
On 09/08/2010 02:11 PM, Jim Boyer wrote:
> I have many hours flying Cessna 150's, etc and just one ride in a Piet
> but from that ride and hours flying Cessna's I just have to say
>
> if you believe the Piets glide ratio better than a 150's, well we have
> this bridge for sale here just South of us going to San Francisco.
Upon further consideration, I think you're right. 15:1 is pretty
extraordinary. The Lancair has an L/D of 13:1. No way a Piet has an
L/D better than a Lancair.
So, what's going on here? Let me make a couple WAGs. Pieti said the
temp was 74 degrees. In the summer, that's a cool day around these
parts. That temp wouldn't trigger the productions of thermals. So,
maybe it was mid to late afternoon on a sunny day early in the spring or
late in the fall with lots of fallow fields around. This would produce
some good thermals and they would certainly affect his glide ratio.
I've been soaring when there were no clouds and the entire altitude
range from 1500-4500' AGL was a lifting band - I could NOT find any sink
over many miles of area. It's possible he was gliding in a huge parcel
of rising air.
What else? He could have had a tailwind. 10mph increases the
*effective* glide ratio pretty substantially.
Those are 2 things that would increase an aircraft's observed glide ratio.
There's a Yahoo! group called airfoil. The moderator has posted Xfoil
analysis of the Riblett GA30-612 and the FC-10 airfoils in the "Files"
section. Unfortunately, he did the analysis of each airfoil using two
different Reynolds numbers, so it's hard to draw a conclusion (though,
the Riblett looks better than the FC-10). I just downloaded the Xfoil
software and am in the process of learning how to use it. When I do,
I'll produce some 9x5 glossies with circles and arrows and a paragraph
on the back of each one that compare (at least computationally) the
Riblett 612 and FC-10 for the same Reynolds numbers.
Stay tuned,
Dan
--
Dan Yocum
Fermilab 630.840.6509
yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Doug Dever <chiefpepperhead(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing education, please advise.. |
Keep in mind that the 150 is substantially different than a 152. The flaps
are consederably larger and produce much more drag. Having a lot of time
teaching in 150s I can say that with anything more than 10deg of flaps the
glide isn't very good. With full flaps a 150 will not climb even with full
power! Flaps off is a whole other ball game. They float forever. Not ha
ving flown a piet I can't compare=2C but with 20deg I would say a 150 glide
s like a tripacer with no flaps...not very well.
Doug Dever
In beautiful Stow Ohio
> Date: Thu=2C 9 Sep 2010 08:44:29 -0500
> From: yocum(at)fnal.gov
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing education=2C please advise..
>
>
>
> On 09/08/2010 02:11 PM=2C Jim Boyer wrote:
> > I have many hours flying Cessna 150's=2C etc and just one ride in a Pie
t
> > but from that ride and hours flying Cessna's I just have to say
> >
> > if you believe the Piets glide ratio better than a 150's=2C well we hav
e
> > this bridge for sale here just South of us going to San Francisco.
>
> Upon further consideration=2C I think you're right. 15:1 is pretty
> extraordinary. The Lancair has an L/D of 13:1. No way a Piet has an
> L/D better than a Lancair.
>
> So=2C what's going on here? Let me make a couple WAGs. Pieti said the
> temp was 74 degrees. In the summer=2C that's a cool day around these
> parts. That temp wouldn't trigger the productions of thermals. So=2C
> maybe it was mid to late afternoon on a sunny day early in the spring or
> late in the fall with lots of fallow fields around. This would produce
> some good thermals and they would certainly affect his glide ratio.
> I've been soaring when there were no clouds and the entire altitude
> range from 1500-4500' AGL was a lifting band - I could NOT find any sink
> over many miles of area. It's possible he was gliding in a huge parcel
> of rising air.
>
> What else? He could have had a tailwind. 10mph increases the
> *effective* glide ratio pretty substantially.
>
> Those are 2 things that would increase an aircraft's observed glide ratio
.
>
> There's a Yahoo! group called airfoil. The moderator has posted Xfoil
> analysis of the Riblett GA30-612 and the FC-10 airfoils in the "Files"
> section. Unfortunately=2C he did the analysis of each airfoil using two
> different Reynolds numbers=2C so it's hard to draw a conclusion (though
=2C
> the Riblett looks better than the FC-10). I just downloaded the Xfoil
> software and am in the process of learning how to use it. When I do=2C
> I'll produce some 9x5 glossies with circles and arrows and a paragraph
> on the back of each one that compare (at least computationally) the
> Riblett 612 and FC-10 for the same Reynolds numbers.
>
> Stay tuned=2C
> Dan
>
> --
> Dan Yocum
> Fermilab 630.840.6509
> yocum@fnal.gov=2C http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
> "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Continental engine |
| From: | "TriScout" <apfelcyber(at)yahoo.com> |
Might be worth calling Don(don's dream machines) and just chat about it. He's got
a hangar full of Continental parts..rebuilds engines for cheap. Does good work
they say. Might lead to something..might not.. It lead to me just buying an
A65 off a cub he overhauled for me for cheap.. Larry
Don Swords(770)412-8885
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311922#311922
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Boyer <boyerjrb(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing education, please advise.. |
Sounds good Dan; looking forward to seeing what the analysis points out.
Jim B.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Yocum" <yocum(at)fnal.gov>
Sent: Thursday, September 9, 2010 6:44:29 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing education, please advise..
On 09/08/2010 02:11 PM, Jim Boyer wrote:
> I have many hours flying Cessna 150's, etc and just one ride in a Piet
> but from that ride and hours flying Cessna's I just have to say
>
> if you believe the Piets glide ratio better than a 150's, well we have
> this bridge for sale here just South of us going to San Francisco.
Upon further consideration, I think you're right. 15:1 is pretty
extraordinary. The Lancair has an L/D of 13:1. No way a Piet has an
L/D better than a Lancair.
So, what's going on here? Let me make a couple WAGs. Pieti said the
temp was 74 degrees. In the summer, that's a cool day around these
parts. That temp wouldn't trigger the productions of thermals. So,
maybe it was mid to late afternoon on a sunny day early in the spring or
late in the fall with lots of fallow fields around. This would produce
some good thermals and they would certainly affect his glide ratio.
I've been soaring when there were no clouds and the entire altitude
range from 1500-4500' AGL was a lifting band - I could NOT find any sink
over many miles of area. It's possible he was gliding in a huge parcel
of rising air.
What else? He could have had a tailwind. 10mph increases the
*effective* glide ratio pretty substantially.
Those are 2 things that would increase an aircraft's observed glide ratio.
There's a Yahoo! group called airfoil. The moderator has posted Xfoil
analysis of the Riblett GA30-612 and the FC-10 airfoils in the "Files"
section. Unfortunately, he did the analysis of each airfoil using two
different Reynolds numbers, so it's hard to draw a conclusion (though,
the Riblett looks better than the FC-10). I just downloaded the Xfoil
software and am in the process of learning how to use it. When I do,
I'll produce some 9x5 glossies with circles and arrows and a paragraph
on the back of each one that compare (at least computationally) the
Riblett 612 and FC-10 for the same Reynolds numbers.
Stay tuned,
Dan
--
Dan Yocum
Fermilab 630.840.6509
yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Boyer <boyerjrb(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing education, please advise.. |
Yes, but without flaps a 150 glides very well and will float in very light breeze
or rising air.
Jim B.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Doug Dever" <chiefpepperhead(at)hotmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 9, 2010 7:20:49 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing education, please advise..
Keep in mind that the 150 is substantially different than a 152. The flaps are
consederably larger and produce much more drag. Having a lot of time teaching
in 150s I can say that with anything more than 10deg of flaps the glide isn't
very good. With full flaps a 150 will not climb even with full power! Flaps
off is a whole other ball game. They float forever. Not having flown a piet
I can't compare, but with 20deg I would say a 150 glides like a tripacer with
no flaps...not very well.
Doug Dever
In beautiful Stow Ohio
> Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2010 08:44:29 -0500
> From: yocum(at)fnal.gov
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing education, please advise..
>
>
>
> On 09/08/2010 02:11 PM, Jim Boyer wrote:
> > I have many hours flying Cessna 150's, etc and just one ride in a Piet
> > but from that ride and hours flying Cessna's I just have to say
> >
> > if you believe the Piets glide ratio better than a 150's, well we have
> > this bridge for sale here just South of us going to San Francisco.
>
> Upon further consideration, I think you're right. 15:1 is pretty
> extraordinary. The Lancair has an L/D of 13:1. No way a Piet has an
> L/D better than a Lancair.
>
> So, what's going on here? Let me make a couple WAGs. Pieti said the
> temp was 74 degrees. In the summer, that's a cool day around these
> parts. That temp wouldn't trigger the productions of thermals. So,
> maybe it was mid to late afternoon on a sunny day early in the spring or
> late in the fall with lots of fallow fields around. This would produce
> some good thermals and they would certainly affect his glide ratio.
> I've been soaring when there were no clouds and the entire altitude
> range from 1500-4500' AGL was a lifting band - I could NOT find any sink
> over many miles of area. It's possible he was gliding in a huge parcel
> of rising air.
>
> What else? He could have had a tailwind. 10mph increases the
> *effective* glide ratio pretty substantially.
>
> Those are 2 things that would increase an aircraft's observed glide ratio.
>
> There's a Yahoo! group called airfoil. The moderator has posted Xfoil
> analysis of the Riblett GA30-612 and the FC-10 airfoils in the "Files"
> section. Unfortunately, he did the analysis of each airfoil using two
> different Reynolds numbers, so it's hard to draw a conclusion (though,
> the Riblett looks better than the FC-10). I just downloaded the Xfoil
> software and am in the process of learning how to use it. When I do,
> I'll produce some 9x5 glossies with circles and arrows and a paragraph
> on the back of each one that compare (at least computationally) the
> Riblett 612 and FC-10 for the same Reynolds numbers.
>
> Stay tuned,
> Dan
>
> --
> Dan Yocum
> Fermilab 630.840.6509
> yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
> "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Doug Dever <chiefpepperhead(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing education, please advise.. |
yes it does. As my description of floats forever indicates. Lowell was sa
ying that a Piet glides like a 150 with 20deg of flap. And from what I get
from talking with pieters (new word) that sounds about right.
Doug Dever
In beautiful Stow Ohio
> Date: Thu=2C 9 Sep 2010 15:01:35 +0000
> From: boyerjrb(at)comcast.net
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing education=2C please advise..
>
>
> Yes=2C but without flaps a 150 glides very well and will float in very li
ght breeze or rising air.
> Jim B.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Cabane to engine mount struts |
I am using the small aluminum struts from Carlson Aircraft for my cabane struts.
I see Carlson also sells aluminum streamline jury struts. I am curious if you
all think these jury struts would be adequate for the struts that run from the
cabanes to the top engine mounts?
http://carlsonaircraft.com/struts.html
Michael Perez
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> |
Hey,
I'm getting ready to layup my cowling. Any suggestions as to which epoxy
resin to use? I'm kinda leaning towards longer pot life as much of what
I've ready seems to focus on a race with the stuff curing in the pot.
Thanks
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack" <jack(at)textors.com> |
Not sure what you mean by "layup" I've had excellent results with West
System, they have different hardeners to alter the set time.
Jack,
Jack
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Douwe
Blumberg
Sent: Friday, September 10, 2010 9:25 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: epoxy resin
Hey,
I'm getting ready to layup my cowling. Any suggestions as to which epoxy
resin to use? I'm kinda leaning towards longer pot life as much of what
I've ready seems to focus on a race with the stuff curing in the pot.
Thanks
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "dgaldrich" <dgaldrich(at)embarqmail.com> |
Douwe
The boat guys really like West Systems for their fiberglass stuff. Easy to measure
and work with.
Dave
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312045#312045
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | to weld or not to weld |
| From: | "bcolleran" <bcolleran(at)comcast.net> |
To weld the or not to weld. That is the question! I have a friend who is willing
to do all the landing gear and motor mount welding for me. He is a non-aviation
guy but is a master welder. I on the other hand have welded once a long
time ago. What is everyones thoughts?
Thanks,
Bill
N424BK
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312054#312054
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris" <catdesigns(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | to weld or not to weld |
Nothing wrong with having someone who knows what they are doing help you
out.
Chris
Sacramento, Ca
Westcoastpiet.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of bcolleran
Sent: Friday, September 10, 2010 12:20 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: to weld or not to weld
-->
To weld the or not to weld. That is the question! I have a friend who is
willing to do all the landing gear and motor mount welding for me. He is a
non-aviation guy but is a master welder. I on the other hand have welded
once a long time ago. What is everyones thoughts?
Thanks,
Bill
N424BK
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312054#312054
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: to weld or not to weld |
| From: | gboothe5(at)comcast.net |
Probably smarter to hire it out; braver to do it yourself. I'm not smart or brave,
but I am cheap, so I did my own, with gas...feels great to say, "Yeah, I did
that."
Gary Boothe
------Original Message------
From: bcolleran
Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
ReplyTo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: to weld or not to weld
Sent: Sep 10, 2010 12:20 PM
To weld the or not to weld. That is the question! I have a friend who is willing
to do all the landing gear and motor mount welding for me. He is a non-aviation
guy but is a master welder. I on the other hand have welded once a long
time ago. What is everyones thoughts?
Thanks,
Bill
N424BK
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312054#312054
Sent on the Sprint Now Network from my BlackBerry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: to weld or not to weld |
Yesterday I welded several bolts to a small piece of angle iron...to make a little
rack to hold extension cords...
Didn't matter that:
1. A fan was blowing right into the area where I was welding....
2. Some welds were good, some weren't.....
3. The flux core wire I was using in my mig machine probably wasn't matched up
just right with what I was welding....
4. I filled in some good size gaps with big gobs of weld....
5. I did it all about the same way most of my neighbors (mostly farmers) weld up
their plows, etc...
But for aviation welding ALL of those (plus some!) DO matter.
Just make sure (and I'm NOT saying you haven't already confirmed this, I'm just
sayin') that your friend knows the special care to be taken when welding 4130...on
parts that your life will depend on. I found there to be a few gotcha's
that were really surprising.
Again, not trying to be an alarmist...just some things to think about. I went
through the same questions and later found out I should have asked my friend if
he was going to let the welds cool slowly, what kind of rod he was going to
use, whether he would/would not normalize (or whether he actually had the equipment
to normalize "the proper way"), etc, etc.
It's a lot more fun asking those important questions now rather than later....
By the way, if you want to appreciate even MORE what a great welder your friend
is, look at some pictures of MY welding!!! :-)
jm
-----Original Message-----
>From: bcolleran <bcolleran(at)comcast.net>
>Sent: Sep 10, 2010 2:20 PM
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: to weld or not to weld
>
>
>To weld the or not to weld. That is the question! I have a friend who is willing
to do all the landing gear and motor mount welding for me. He is a non-aviation
guy but is a master welder. I on the other hand have welded once a long
time ago. What is everyones thoughts?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Bill
>N424BK
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312054#312054
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | AMsafetyC(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: to weld or not to weld |
Shall we begin at the beginning?
Welding and welders certifications and designations are only worth the
value of the organization providing them. And all with their own nuisances. One
would think that a master welder should be able t weld anything for anyone
for any reason. Not true! welding science and technology can be very
specialized where only the most basic of skills are transferable, like striking
and holding a arc. Beyond that its all a different game, fillers, fluxes,
heats, passes all become part of the equation in all forms of welding.
That's not to say you cant trust your friend but you sold know there are varied
differences in certifications and designations.
Boiler maker
Sprinkler fitter
pipe fitter
pressure vessel
atomic
The list becomes as endless as the list of materials. My dad would be
considered a Master welder and yet he knew his limitations and would shy away
from areas he was not completely confident in his skill level and knowledge,
he wouldn't touch the work.
Just my opinion for what its worth, good news is that motor mounts is not
rocket science but metallurgy sure is close.
John
In a message dated 9/10/2010 3:22:52 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
bcolleran(at)comcast.net writes:
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "bcolleran"
To weld the or not to weld. That is the question! I have a friend who is
willing to do all the landing gear and motor mount welding for me. He is
a non-aviation guy but is a master welder. I on the other hand have welded
once a long time ago. What is everyones thoughts?
Thanks,
Bill
N424BK
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312054#312054
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Doug Dever <chiefpepperhead(at)hotmail.com> |
Douwe=2C
System Three's clear coat epoxy has a long pot life and wets out really nic
e since it's thinner than other laminating resins. I think it would be ple
nty strong especially in something nonstructural like a cowling. But you c
an check their tech sheet and compare.
It's great stuff to work with.
Doug Dever
In beautiful Stow Ohio
From: douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net
Subject: Pietenpol-List: epoxy resin
Date: Fri=2C 10 Sep 2010 10:25:02 -0400
Hey=2C
I=92m getting ready to layup my cowling. Any suggestions as to which epoxy
resin to use? I=92m kinda leaning towards longer pot life as much of what
I=92ve ready seems to focus on a race with the stuff curing in the pot.
Thanks
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Doug Dever <chiefpepperhead(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | to weld or not to weld |
If you weld with gas (oxy acetyline) you don't have to worry about much of
the stuff that the TIG/MIG guys have to worry about. But it takes a little
practice to lay a good weld and the right rod and torch tip for the job.
Gas welding equip. is much cheaper and in my opinion more versatile=2C but
I'm also comfortable with it. There is not much to weld on a piet=2C so If
you don't have the equipment I'd say hire it done.
Doug Dever
In beautiful Stow Ohio
> Date: Fri=2C 10 Sep 2010 15:57:52 -0400
> From: jim_markle(at)mindspring.com
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: to weld or not to weld
>
om>
>
> Yesterday I welded several bolts to a small piece of angle iron...to make
a little rack to hold extension cords...
>
> Didn't matter that:
> 1. A fan was blowing right into the area where I was welding....
> 2. Some welds were good=2C some weren't.....
> 3. The flux core wire I was using in my mig machine probably wasn't match
ed up just right with what I was welding....
> 4. I filled in some good size gaps with big gobs of weld....
> 5. I did it all about the same way most of my neighbors (mostly farmers)
weld up their plows=2C etc...
>
> But for aviation welding ALL of those (plus some!) DO matter.
>
> Just make sure (and I'm NOT saying you haven't already confirmed this=2C
I'm just sayin') that your friend knows the special care to be taken when w
elding 4130...on parts that your life will depend on. I found there to be a
few gotcha's that were really surprising.
>
> Again=2C not trying to be an alarmist...just some things to think about.
I went through the same questions and later found out I should have asked m
y friend if he was going to let the welds cool slowly=2C what kind of rod h
e was going to use=2C whether he would/would not normalize (or whether he a
ctually had the equipment to normalize "the proper way")=2C etc=2C etc.
>
> It's a lot more fun asking those important questions now rather than late
r....
>
> By the way=2C if you want to appreciate even MORE what a great welder you
r friend is=2C look at some pictures of MY welding!!! :-)
>
> jm
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> >From: bcolleran <bcolleran(at)comcast.net>
> >Sent: Sep 10=2C 2010 2:20 PM
> >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> >Subject: Pietenpol-List: to weld or not to weld
> >
>
> >
> >To weld the or not to weld. That is the question! I have a friend who is
willing to do all the landing gear and motor mount welding for me. He is a
non-aviation guy but is a master welder. I on the other hand have welded o
nce a long time ago. What is everyones thoughts?
> >
> >Thanks=2C
> >
> >Bill
> >N424BK
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Read this topic online here:
> >
> >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312054#312054
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Doug Dever <chiefpepperhead(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | to weld or not to weld |
One other thing that I don't see people mentioning much is the FAA A&P Airf
rame Handbook. It's a good reference to go to for everything from welding
to riveting to fabric work etc.
Doug Dever
In beautiful Stow Ohio
From: AMsafetyC(at)aol.com
Date: Fri=2C 10 Sep 2010 16:46:02 -0400
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: to weld or not to weld
Shall we begin at the beginning?
Welding and welders certifications and designations are only worth the valu
e of the organization providing them. And all with their own nuisances. One
would think that a master welder should be able t weld anything for anyone
for any reason. Not true! welding science and technology can be very speci
alized where only the most basic of skills are transferable=2C like strikin
g and holding a arc. Beyond that its all a different game=2C fillers=2C flu
xes=2C heats=2C passes all become part of the equation in all forms of weld
ing. That's not to say you cant trust your friend but you sold know there a
re varied differences in certifications and designations.
Boiler maker
Sprinkler fitter
pipe fitter
pressure vessel
atomic
The list becomes as endless as the list of materials. My dad would be consi
dered a Master welder and yet he knew his limitations and would shy away fr
om areas he was not completely confident in his skill level and knowledge
=2C he wouldn't touch the work.
Just my opinion for what its worth=2C good news is that motor mounts is not
rocket science but metallurgy sure is close.
John
In a message dated 9/10/2010 3:22:52 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time=2C bcollera
n(at)comcast.net writes:
To weld the or not to weld. That is the question! I have a friend who is
willing to do all the landing gear and motor mount welding for me. He is a
non-aviation guy but is a master welder. I on the other hand have welded
once a long time ago. What is everyones thoughts?
Thanks=2C
Bill
N424BK
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312054#312054=====
================
====== - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS ======
================= - List Contr
ibution Web Site sp=3B =========
================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "skellytown flyer" <skellflyer1(at)yahoo.com> |
Well I thought I had a nice looking hour meter in the project I bought from D.J.
till I tried to figure out how to hook it up just now.I didn't get any manuals
with the project but this nice looking Davtron M 800 Chronometer in the panel.
it looks really sharp and I assumed it would function as a hour meter to record
total aircraft hours. but just now I called the factory and it seems it's
main function is a flight timer or such. I need something like a plain old Hobbs
meter.so if anybody needs this thing send me an email.we can talk trade.
Raymond
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312066#312066
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: to weld or not to weld |
| From: | Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
I view my Piet project as a learning experience and welding was something I
wanted to learn. I ended up really enjoying welding (as long as I don't have
to do it for a living). Your friend could be a great resource for learning
and inspecting.
rick
On Fri, Sep 10, 2010 at 1:20 PM, bcolleran wrote:
>
> To weld the or not to weld. That is the question! I have a friend who is
> willing to do all the landing gear and motor mount welding for me. He is a
> non-aviation guy but is a master welder. I on the other hand have welded
> once a long time ago. What is everyones thoughts?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bill
> N424BK
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312054#312054
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: to weld or not to weld |
| From: | Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
I have spent nearly as much time cutting/bending/grinding/welding metal as I
have cutting/sanding/gluing wood on my project.
rick
On Fri, Sep 10, 2010 at 2:55 PM, Doug Dever wrote:
> If you weld with gas (oxy acetyline) you don't have to worry about much of
> the stuff that the TIG/MIG guys have to worry about. But it takes a little
> practice to lay a good weld and the right rod and torch tip for the job.
> Gas welding equip. is much cheaper and in my opinion more versatile, but I'm
> also comfortable with it. There is not much to weld on a piet, so If you
> don't have the equipment I'd say hire it done.
>
> Doug Dever
> In beautiful Stow Ohio
>
>
> > Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2010 15:57:52 -0400
> > From: jim_markle(at)mindspring.com
>
> > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: to weld or not to weld
>
> >
> jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
> >
> > Yesterday I welded several bolts to a small piece of angle iron...to make
> a little rack to hold extension cords...
> >
> > Didn't matter that:
> > 1. A fan was blowing right into the area where I was welding....
> > 2. Some welds were good, some weren't.....
> > 3. The flux core wire I was using in my mig machine probably wasn't
> matched up just right with what I was welding....
> > 4. I filled in some good size gaps with big gobs of weld....
> > 5. I did it all about the same way most of my neighbors (mostly farmers)
> weld up their plows, etc...
> >
> > But for aviation welding ALL of those (plus some!) DO matter.
> >
> > Just make sure (and I'm NOT saying you haven't already confirmed this,
> I'm just sayin') that your friend knows the special care to be taken when
> welding 4130...on parts that your life will depend on. I found there to be a
> few gotcha's that were really surprising.
> >
> > Again, not trying to be an alarmist...just some things to think about. I
> went through the same questions and later found out I should have asked my
> friend if he was going to let the welds cool slowly, what kind of rod he was
> going to use, whether he would/would not normalize (or whether he actually
> had the equipment to normalize "the proper way"), etc, etc.
> >
> > It's a lot more fun asking those important questions now rather than
> later....
> >
> > By the way, if you want to appreciate even MORE what a great welder your
> friend is, look at some pictures of MY welding!!! :-)
> >
> > jm
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > >From: bcolleran <bcolleran(at)comcast.net>
> > >Sent: Sep 10, 2010 2:20 PM
> > >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> > >Subject: Pietenpol-List: to weld or not to weld
> > >
> bcolleran(at)comcast.net>
> > >
> > >To weld the or not to weld. That is the question! I have a friend who is
> willing to do all the landing gear and motor mount welding for me. He is a
> non-aviation guy but is a master welder. I on the other hand have welded
> once a long time ago. What is everyones thoughts?
> > >
> > >Thanks,
> > >
> > >Bill
> > >N424BK
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >Read this topic online here:
> > >
> > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312054#312054
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ========================>
> >
> >
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "carson" <carsonvella(at)yahoo.com.au> |
Thanks Kevin
I think that I will go with the heavier stuff
Happy building
Carson
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312071#312071
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | to weld or not to weld |
There's not much to weld on a Piet? Let's see, there's just the aileron
horns, the elevator horns, the rudder horn, the control system torque tube,
the control sticks, the cabane struts, the lift struts, the landing gear
struts (if using the Cub style gear), the engine mount, the aileron pulley
fittings, etc., etc. Other than that there's not much welding required.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Doug Dever
Sent: Friday, September 10, 2010 4:55 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: to weld or not to weld
If you weld with gas (oxy acetyline) you don't have to worry about much of
the stuff that the TIG/MIG guys have to worry about. But it takes a little
practice to lay a good weld and the right rod and torch tip for the job.
Gas welding equip. is much cheaper and in my opinion more versatile, but I'm
also comfortable with it. There is not much to weld on a piet, so If you
don't have the equipment I'd say hire it done.
Doug Dever
In beautiful Stow Ohio
> Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2010 15:57:52 -0400
> From: jim_markle(at)mindspring.com
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: to weld or not to weld
>
>
> Yesterday I welded several bolts to a small piece of angle iron...to make
a little rack to hold extension cords...
>
> Didn't matter that:
> 1. A fan was blowing right into the area where I was welding....
> 2. Some welds were good, some weren't.....
> 3. The flux core wire I was using in my mig machine probably wasn't
matched up just right with what I was welding....
> 4. I filled in some good size gaps with big gobs of weld....
> 5. I did it all about the same way most of my neighbors (mostly farmers)
weld up their plows, etc...
>
> But for aviation welding ALL of those (plus some!) DO matter.
>
> Just make sure (and I'm NOT saying you haven't already confirmed this, I'm
just sayin') that your friend knows the special care to be taken when
welding 4130...on parts that your life will depend on. I found there to be a
few gotcha's that were really surprising.
>
> Again, not trying to be an alarmist...just some things to think about. I
went through the same questions and later found out I should have asked my
friend if he was going to let the welds cool slowly, what kind of rod he was
going to use, whether he would/would not normalize (or whether he actually
had the equipment to normalize "the proper way"), etc, etc.
>
> It's a lot more fun asking those important questions now rather than
later....
>
> By the way, if you want to appreciate even MORE what a great welder your
friend is, look at some pictures of MY welding!!! :-)
>
> jm
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> >From: bcolleran <bcolleran(at)comcast.net>
> >Sent: Sep 10, 2010 2:20 PM
> >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> >Subject: Pietenpol-List: to weld or not to weld
> >
> >
> >To weld the or not to weld. That is the question! I have a friend who is
willing to do all the landing gear and motor mount welding for me. He is a
non-aviation guy but is a master welder. I on the other hand have welded
once a long time ago. What is everyones thoughts?
> >
> >Thanks,
> >
> >Bill
> >N424BK
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Read this topic online here:
> >
> >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312054#312054
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> =======================
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | to weld or not to weld |
Oops, I forgot the elevator bellcrank and the journals to support the torque
tube, and the rudder pedals, and their supports.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack
Phillips
Sent: Friday, September 10, 2010 8:22 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: to weld or not to weld
There's not much to weld on a Piet? Let's see, there's just the aileron
horns, the elevator horns, the rudder horn, the control system torque tube,
the control sticks, the cabane struts, the lift struts, the landing gear
struts (if using the Cub style gear), the engine mount, the aileron pulley
fittings, etc., etc. Other than that there's not much welding required.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Doug Dever
Sent: Friday, September 10, 2010 4:55 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: to weld or not to weld
If you weld with gas (oxy acetyline) you don't have to worry about much of
the stuff that the TIG/MIG guys have to worry about. But it takes a little
practice to lay a good weld and the right rod and torch tip for the job.
Gas welding equip. is much cheaper and in my opinion more versatile, but I'm
also comfortable with it. There is not much to weld on a piet, so If you
don't have the equipment I'd say hire it done.
Doug Dever
In beautiful Stow Ohio
> Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2010 15:57:52 -0400
> From: jim_markle(at)mindspring.com
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: to weld or not to weld
>
>
> Yesterday I welded several bolts to a small piece of angle iron...to make
a little rack to hold extension cords...
>
> Didn't matter that:
> 1. A fan was blowing right into the area where I was welding....
> 2. Some welds were good, some weren't.....
> 3. The flux core wire I was using in my mig machine probably wasn't
matched up just right with what I was welding....
> 4. I filled in some good size gaps with big gobs of weld....
> 5. I did it all about the same way most of my neighbors (mostly farmers)
weld up their plows, etc...
>
> But for aviation welding ALL of those (plus some!) DO matter.
>
> Just make sure (and I'm NOT saying you haven't already confirmed this, I'm
just sayin') that your friend knows the special care to be taken when
welding 4130...on parts that your life will depend on. I found there to be a
few gotcha's that were really surprising.
>
> Again, not trying to be an alarmist...just some things to think about. I
went through the same questions and later found out I should have asked my
friend if he was going to let the welds cool slowly, what kind of rod he was
going to use, whether he would/would not normalize (or whether he actually
had the equipment to normalize "the proper way"), etc, etc.
>
> It's a lot more fun asking those important questions now rather than
later....
>
> By the way, if you want to appreciate even MORE what a great welder your
friend is, look at some pictures of MY welding!!! :-)
>
> jm
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> >From: bcolleran <bcolleran(at)comcast.net>
> >Sent: Sep 10, 2010 2:20 PM
> >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> >Subject: Pietenpol-List: to weld or not to weld
> >
> >
> >To weld the or not to weld. That is the question! I have a friend who is
willing to do all the landing gear and motor mount welding for me. He is a
non-aviation guy but is a master welder. I on the other hand have welded
once a long time ago. What is everyones thoughts?
> >
> >Thanks,
> >
> >Bill
> >N424BK
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Read this topic online here:
> >
> >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312054#312054
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> =======================
>
>
>
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Boyer <boyerjrb(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: to weld or not to weld |
Hi Jack, and you forgot the upper cabane strut fittings; each made of 4 pieces
of steel welded together.
The welding on my Piet was done by a friend who is restoring his own plane, is
a licensed pilot, president of our EAA Capter 124 and a professional welder. He
was laughing the other day; "I didn't realize how much welding there was in
a wooden airplane."
Jim
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Sent: Friday, September 10, 2010 5:37:24 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: to weld or not to weld
Oops, I forgot the elevator bellcrank and the journals to support the torque tube,
and the rudder pedals, and their supports.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack Phillips
Sent: Friday, September 10, 2010 8:22 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: to weld or not to weld
Theres not much to weld on a Piet? Lets see, theres just the aileron horns, the
elevator horns, the rudder horn, the control system torque tube, the control
sticks, the cabane struts, the lift struts, the landing gear struts (if using
the Cub style gear), the engine mount, the aileron pulley fittings, etc., etc.
Other than that theres not much welding required.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh , NC
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Doug Dever
Sent: Friday, September 10, 2010 4:55 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: to weld or not to weld
If you weld with gas (oxy acetyline) you don't have to worry about much of the
stuff that the TIG/MIG guys have to worry about. But it takes a little practice
to lay a good weld and the right rod and torch tipfor the job. Gas welding equip.
is much cheaper and in my opinion more versatile, but I'm also comfortable
with it. There is not much to weld on a piet, so If you don't have the equipment
I'd say hire it done.
Doug Dever
In beautiful Stow Ohio
> Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2010 15:57:52 -0400
> From: jim_markle(at)mindspring.com
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: to weld or not to weld
>
>
> Yesterday I welded several bolts to a small piece of angle iron...to make a little
rack to hold extension cords...
>
> Didn't matter that:
> 1. A fan was blowing right into the area where I was welding....
> 2. Some welds were good, some weren't.....
> 3. The flux core wire I was using in my mig machine probably wasn't matched up
just right with what I was welding....
> 4. I filled in some good size gaps with big gobs of weld....
> 5. I did it all about the same way most of my neighbors (mostly farmers) weld
up their plows, etc...
>
> But for aviation welding ALL of those (plus some!) DO matter.
>
> Just make sure (and I'm NOT saying you haven't already confirmed this, I'm just
sayin') that your friend knows the special care to be taken when welding 4130...on
parts that your life will depend on. I found there to be a few gotcha's
that were really surprising.
>
> Again, not trying to be an alarmist...just some things to think about. I went
through the same questions and later found out I should have asked my friend
if he was going to let the welds cool slowly, what kind of rod he was going to
use, whether he would/would not normalize (or whether he actually had the equipment
to normalize "the proper way"), etc, etc.
>
> It's a lot more fun asking those important questions now rather than later....
>
> By the way, if you want to appreciate even MORE what a great welder your friend
is, look at some pictures of MY welding!!! :-)
>
> jm
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> >From: bcolleran <bcolleran(at)comcast.net>
> >Sent: Sep 10, 2010 2:20 PM
> >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> >Subject: Pietenpol-List: to weld or not to weld
> >
> >
> >To weld the or not to weld. That is the question! I have a friend who is willing
to do all the landing gear and motor mount welding for me. He is a non-aviation
guy but is a master welder. I on the other hand have welded once a long
time ago. What is everyones thoughts?
> >
> >Thanks,
> >
> >Bill
> >N424BK
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Read this topic online here:
> >
> >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312054#312054
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> ========================
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Volckmann <mike_cfi(at)yahoo.com> |
The Davtron M 800 Chronometer-is designed as a panel mounted timer to giv
e an =0AInstrument Pilot Universal Coordinated Time, Local Time, and-up/d
own timers to =0Atime instrument approaches.=0A-Mike Volckmann =0A=0AThe
only thing we ever learn from history is that we never learn from history.
=0AGeorge Bernard Shaw =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________
=0AFrom: skellytown flyer <skellflyer1(at)yahoo.com>=0ATo: pietenpol-list@matr
onics.com=0ASent: Fri, September 10, 2010 2:13:39 PM=0ASubject: Pietenpol-L
er" =0A=0AWell I thought I had a nice looking hour m
eter in the project I bought from D.J. =0Atill I tried to figure out how to
hook it up just now.I didn't get any manuals =0Awith the project but this
nice looking Davtron M 800 Chronometer in the panel. =0Ait looks really sha
rp and I assumed it would function as a hour meter to record =0Atotal aircr
aft hours. but just now I called the factory and it seems it's main =0Afunc
tion is a flight timer or such. I need something like a plain old Hobbs =0A
meter.so if anybody needs this thing send me an email.we can talk trade. Ra
ymond=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matroni
-========================
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Sexy Rib Art |
| From: | "Dan P" <dlplett(at)swko.net> |
I like that! If you have an extra one I'm interested. :D
--------
Dan Plett
N28WH
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312104#312104
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Cabane to engine mount struts |
| From: | "Billy McCaskill" <billmz(at)cox.net> |
Hi Michael,
If you are referring to the jury strut material near the bottom of the page, the
stuff with the .375" minor axis dimension, I personally would not use this
for the braces that go from the top of the cabane to the engine mounts. It might
be strong enough in tension, but if the wing were to somehow try to shift
forward in the event of a crash (ask William Wynne about it), those thin alloy
struts would buckle and collapse far too easily. Just my non-professional opinion
on the matter. I would choose to use the same size material as the cabanes
themselves for peace of mind...
--------
Billy McCaskill
Urbana, IL
tail section almost done, starting on ribs soon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312107#312107
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wing education, please advise.. |
| From: | "j_dunavin" <j_dunavin(at)hotmail.com> |
> I think what Pieti is saying is that if you build your plane with the original
FC-10 airfoil that you will have a perfectly serviceable, good flying plane.
But if you substitute the GA30-612 Riblett airfoil, you will have a much better
flying airplane. Based on his experience (lots of it), and not just theory
and opinion, I'm inclined to believe what he has to say. Here's a clip where he
talks about the merits of the Riblett airfoils and his experience with them...
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHHnzw1V5FY
>
> I personally plan to build the 612 airfoil for mine, otherwise I am sticking
rather tenaciously to the plans (aside from using one of those confounded Crank
Snappin' Corvair motors).
Billy,
I checked out the video, and he says that he is also getting better cruse speed
as well? He really makes it sound like this wing design is the best option for
a piet. I mean he even states that he can pull full back elevator with full
throttle and climb?
Sounds like i should invest some more thought into this other design.
Being the guy that I am though I am having some reservation as the plans work and
have worked for so long. But like someone else said... Even BP would have tried
something different if he though it would be better.
Where can I find:
A) Rib lay out?
B) full wig dinesons, with spars, ailerons, and attachment points? Or is the general
wing the same... just different ribs?
Urbana hu? Man us northern IL guys got to get together. ( *head scratch*... I
guess that's why there is Broadhead hu? )
Anyway I'm with ya on the Corvair motor.
OO that's another question:
With the extra HP from the corvair motor, would we benefit as much from the Riblet
design, as from someone who was using a model A or continental?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312108#312108
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Doug Dever <chiefpepperhead(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | to weld or not to weld |
I stated it wrong. There isn't much welding. Yes=2C a lot of little parts
. But=2C not a lot of welding. Of course a lot is a relative thing. And m
ost of the time I can't relate.
Doug Dever
In beautiful Stow Ohio
From: pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: to weld or not to weld
Date: Fri=2C 10 Sep 2010 20:22:29 -0400
There=92s not much to weld on a Piet? Let=92s see=2C there=92s just the ai
leron horns=2C the elevator horns=2C the rudder horn=2C the control system
torque tube=2C the control sticks=2C the cabane struts=2C the lift struts
=2C the landing gear struts (if using the Cub style gear)=2C the engine mou
nt=2C the aileron pulley fittings=2C etc.=2C etc. Other than that there=92
s not much welding required.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh=2C NC
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-lis
t-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Doug Dever
Sent: Friday=2C September 10=2C 2010 4:55 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: to weld or not to weld
If you weld with gas (oxy acetyline) you don't have to worry about much of
the stuff that the TIG/MIG guys have to worry about. But it takes a little
practice to lay a good weld and the right rod and torch tip for the job.
Gas welding equip. is much cheaper and in my opinion more versatile=2C but
I'm also comfortable with it. There is not much to weld on a piet=2C so If
you don't have the equipment I'd say hire it done.
Doug Dever
In beautiful Stow Ohio
> Date: Fri=2C 10 Sep 2010 15:57:52 -0400
> From: jim_markle(at)mindspring.com
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: to weld or not to weld
>
om>
>
> Yesterday I welded several bolts to a small piece of angle iron...to make
a little rack to hold extension cords...
>
> Didn't matter that:
> 1. A fan was blowing right into the area where I was welding....
> 2. Some welds were good=2C some weren't.....
> 3. The flux core wire I was using in my mig machine probably wasn't match
ed up just right with what I was welding....
> 4. I filled in some good size gaps with big gobs of weld....
> 5. I did it all about the same way most of my neighbors (mostly farmers)
weld up their plows=2C etc...
>
> But for aviation welding ALL of those (plus some!) DO matter.
>
> Just make sure (and I'm NOT saying you haven't already confirmed this=2C
I'm just sayin') that your friend knows the special care to be taken when w
elding 4130...on parts that your life will depend on. I found there to be a
few gotcha's that were really surprising.
>
> Again=2C not trying to be an alarmist...just some things to think about.
I went through the same questions and later found out I should have asked m
y friend if he was going to let the welds cool slowly=2C what kind of rod h
e was going to use=2C whether he would/would not normalize (or whether he a
ctually had the equipment to normalize "the proper way")=2C etc=2C etc.
>
> It's a lot more fun asking those important questions now rather than late
r....
>
> By the way=2C if you want to appreciate even MORE what a great welder you
r friend is=2C look at some pictures of MY welding!!! :-)
>
> jm
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> >From: bcolleran <bcolleran(at)comcast.net>
> >Sent: Sep 10=2C 2010 2:20 PM
> >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> >Subject: Pietenpol-List: to weld or not to weld
> >
>
> >
> >To weld the or not to weld. That is the question! I have a friend who is
willing to do all the landing gear and motor mount welding for me. He is a
non-aviation guy but is a master welder. I on the other hand have welded o
nce a long time ago. What is everyones thoughts?
> >
> >Thanks=2C
> >
> >Bill
> >N424BK
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Read this topic online here:
> >
> >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312054#312054
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> =======================
>
>
>
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matro
nics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: to weld or not to weld |
| From: | Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
And don't forget the 4 center strut fittings ?:)
rick
On Fri, Sep 10, 2010 at 6:37 PM, Jack Phillips wrot
e:
> Oops, I forgot the elevator bellcrank and the journals to support the
> torque tube, and the rudder pedals, and their supports.
>
>
> Jack Phillips
>
> NX899JP
>
> Raleigh, NC
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Jack Phillips
> *Sent:* Friday, September 10, 2010 8:22 PM
>
> *To:* pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* RE: Pietenpol-List: to weld or not to weld
>
>
> There=92s not much to weld on a Piet? Let=92s see, there=92s just the ai
leron
> horns, the elevator horns, the rudder horn, the control system torque tub
e,
> the control sticks, the cabane struts, the lift struts, the landing gear
> struts (if using the Cub style gear), the engine mount, the aileron pulle
y
> fittings, etc., etc. Other than that there=92s not much welding required
.
>
>
> Jack Phillips
>
> NX899JP
>
> Raleigh, NC
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Doug Dever
> *Sent:* Friday, September 10, 2010 4:55 PM
> *To:* pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* RE: Pietenpol-List: to weld or not to weld
>
>
> If you weld with gas (oxy acetyline) you don't have to worry about much o
f
> the stuff that the TIG/MIG guys have to worry about. But it takes a litt
le
> practice to lay a good weld and the right rod and torch tip for the job.
> Gas welding equip. is much cheaper and in my opinion more versatile, but
I'm
> also comfortable with it. There is not much to weld on a piet, so If you
> don't have the equipment I'd say hire it done.
>
> Doug Dever
> In beautiful Stow Ohio
>
>
> > Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2010 15:57:52 -0400
> > From: jim_markle(at)mindspring.com
> > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: to weld or not to weld
> >
> jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
> >
> > Yesterday I welded several bolts to a small piece of angle iron...to ma
ke
> a little rack to hold extension cords...
> >
> > Didn't matter that:
> > 1. A fan was blowing right into the area where I was welding....
> > 2. Some welds were good, some weren't.....
> > 3. The flux core wire I was using in my mig machine probably wasn't
> matched up just right with what I was welding....
> > 4. I filled in some good size gaps with big gobs of weld....
> > 5. I did it all about the same way most of my neighbors (mostly farmers
)
> weld up their plows, etc...
> >
> > But for aviation welding ALL of those (plus some!) DO matter.
> >
> > Just make sure (and I'm NOT saying you haven't already confirmed this,
> I'm just sayin') that your friend knows the special care to be taken when
> welding 4130...on parts that your life will depend on. I found there to b
e a
> few gotcha's that were really surprising.
> >
> > Again, not trying to be an alarmist...just some things to think about.
I
> went through the same questions and later found out I should have asked m
y
> friend if he was going to let the welds cool slowly, what kind of rod he
was
> going to use, whether he would/would not normalize (or whether he actuall
y
> had the equipment to normalize "the proper way"), etc, etc.
> >
> > It's a lot more fun asking those important questions now rather than
> later....
> >
> > By the way, if you want to appreciate even MORE what a great welder you
r
> friend is, look at some pictures of MY welding!!! :-)
> >
> > jm
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > >From: bcolleran <bcolleran(at)comcast.net>
> > >Sent: Sep 10, 2010 2:20 PM
> > >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> > >Subject: Pietenpol-List: to weld or not to weld
> > >
> bcolleran(at)comcast.net>
> > >
> > >To weld the or not to weld. That is the question! I have a friend who
is
> willing to do all the landing gear and motor mount welding for me. He is
a
> non-aviation guy but is a master welder. I on the other hand have welded
> once a long time ago. What is everyones thoughts?
> > >
> > >Thanks,
> > >
> > >Bill
> > >N424BK
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >Read this topic online here:
> > >
> > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312054#312054
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > =======================
>
> >
> >
> >
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> *href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.ma
tronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List*
>
> *href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com*
>
> *href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/
c*
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List*
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://forums.matronics.com*
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>
> * *
>
> *
>
===========
>
===========
===========
===========
>
> *
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wing education, please advise.. |
| From: | "Billy McCaskill" <billmz(at)cox.net> |
Hi Joe,
The only thing that changes when using the Riblett airfoils over the FC-10 is the
shape of the rib itself. Nothing else about the wing design changes. You
can use the same size spars, the length of the ailerons does not change, same
wingspan (although Pieti Lowell's is a little shorter than standard), etc...
The coordinates for the Riblett airfoils have been discussed and published here
on the list many times, use the search function and it should turn up a spreadsheet
with the Riblett GA30-612, GA30-613.5, and the FC-10.
The Riblett airfoils should be just as good for the Corvair engine powered Piets
as it is for the Ford or Continental/Lycoming/Franklin powered ones.
Where in IL are you located?
--------
Billy McCaskill
Urbana, IL
tail section almost done, starting on ribs soon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312140#312140
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kip and Beth Gardner <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing education, please advise.. |
I think this has been covered before, but the only real difference
is that the 612 and 613.5 cross sections are deeper than the FC, so
you will need to fill in the empty space that will exist above the
spar at each rib location. There has been some discussion about
this, with specific regard to rib incidence - I believe that the
consensus is to align the rib centerline 90 degrees to the spar and
set the wing incidence (relative to the fuse) by adjusting the cabane
lengths?
Kip Gardner
On Sep 11, 2010, at 11:50 AM, Billy McCaskill wrote:
>
>
> Hi Joe,
>
> The only thing that changes when using the Riblett airfoils over
> the FC-10 is the shape of the rib itself. Nothing else about the
> wing design changes. You can use the same size spars, the length
> of the ailerons does not change, same wingspan (although Pieti
> Lowell's is a little shorter than standard), etc...
>
> The coordinates for the Riblett airfoils have been discussed and
> published here on the list many times, use the search function and
> it should turn up a spreadsheet with the Riblett GA30-612,
> GA30-613.5, and the FC-10.
>
> The Riblett airfoils should be just as good for the Corvair engine
> powered Piets as it is for the Ford or Continental/Lycoming/
> Franklin powered ones.
>
> Where in IL are you located?
>
> --------
> Billy McCaskill
> Urbana, IL
> tail section almost done, starting on ribs soon
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312140#312140
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: What to look for in a 3/4 built Pietenpol |
| From: | "JGriff" <jgriffith19(at)comcast.net> |
I went and looked at it today and it is pretty far along and seems well built.
Here are some photos. I'm not sure I will be able to buy the project and if anyone
else is interested I'd be happy to pass along the builder's name and contact
info via email. The project is located on the CT/RI border near Westerly RI.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312161#312161
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dscn1428_117.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dscn1425_110.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dscn1422_135.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dscn1424_733.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | airlion <airlion(at)bellsouth.net> |
Good afternoon Listers. I have a Mack truck cowl with a 1 sq ft panel on each
side for access. I have two 6 inch intake holes on the nose with a 150 percent
opening out the bottom. If I cut louvers on each panel will that mess up my
cooling. I would really like the louvers looks wise. Cheers, Gardiner
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
Hi Gardiner,
Not that I know that much about pressure cowls, but I recall Kurt Shipman
saying how he improved his cooling by increasing the opening at the bottom.
With that in mind, I can't see how louvers on the low pressure side would do
anything but help...at least they wouldn't hurt.
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(20 ribs down.)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of airlion
Sent: Saturday, September 11, 2010 1:51 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: louvers
Good afternoon Listers. I have a Mack truck cowl with a 1 sq ft panel on
each
side for access. I have two 6 inch intake holes on the nose with a 150
percent
opening out the bottom. If I cut louvers on each panel will that mess up my
cooling. I would really like the louvers looks wise. Cheers, Gardiner
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com> |
Hi Gardiner,
I'v attached a cropped down photo of your cowling, from the first flight
pics you sent. Is the panel you are referring to the square panel that is
sort of hidden behind the prop? The one which goes around the exhaust pipe,
covering from just below the exhaust pipe up to the horizontal rivet line
about midway up the cowling?
Ryan
On Sat, Sep 11, 2010 at 3:50 PM, airlion wrote:
>
> Good afternoon Listers. I have a Mack truck cowl with a 1 sq ft panel on
> each
> side for access. I have two 6 inch intake holes on the nose with a 150
> percent
> opening out the bottom. If I cut louvers on each panel will that mess up my
> cooling. I would really like the louvers looks wise. Cheers, Gardiner
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | airlion <airlion(at)bellsouth.net> |
Ryan, I have now moved my exhaust pipes down through the hole in the bottom of
the cowl . Where the pipes used to come thru show the pipes coming thru a panel
on each side as pictured. I have replaced those panels with a hinged access door
that I want to put louvers in. Cheers, Gardiner and my best to Jessie.
________________________________
From: Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Sat, September 11, 2010 7:01:52 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: louvers
Hi Gardiner,
I'v attached a cropped down photo of your cowling, from the first flight pics
you sent. Is the panel you are referring to the square panel that is sort of
hidden behind the prop? The one which goes around the exhaust pipe, covering
from just below the exhaust pipe up to the horizontal rivet line about midway up
the cowling?
Ryan
On Sat, Sep 11, 2010 at 3:50 PM, airlion wrote:
>
>Good afternoon Listers. I have a Mack truck cowl with a 1 sq ft panel on each
>side for access. I have two 6 inch intake holes on the nose with a 150 percent
>opening out the bottom. If I cut louvers on each panel will that mess up my
>cooling. I would really like the louvers looks wise. Cheers, Gardiner
>
>
>==========
>st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>==========
>http://forums.matronics.com
>==========
>le, List Admin.
>="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>==========
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Flight training |
| From: | "skellytown flyer" <skellflyer1(at)yahoo.com> |
Good to know-thanks. Dumas is only about 65 miles from here.but Midland is about
175 or so miles south so probably this fellow won't be able to get much good
from him.plus I found out what he has built is a very light singe seat that
would probably qualify as a legal ultralight so he will need to get some training
in a very light aircraft but unless he wants to pursue the full ticket wouldn't
have to and still fly.we did locate an instructor up in Perryton even farther
north of here that has an aircraft that he trains with so if the guy wants
to drive this far maybe he can get some training from him.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312198#312198
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Cabane to engine mount struts |
Thanks Bill for your input. Yes, you are looking at the correct struts. I guess
it would be wise to go larger/stronger.
Michael Perez
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: to weld or not to weld |
I tried to get away from welding at first. I had not welded in a long, long time
and while building the plane, I did not want to take the time to re-learn how
to do it. I am fortunate enough to have access to a nice TIG welder, so I took
the time to practice and talk to other welders for help. I now have plenty
of welded fittings made and I really do enjoy doing it. It is a nice break from
the wood and epoxy sometimes. I enjoy it so much that I am going to tackle making
my own aluminum fuel tank soon.
Michael Perez
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Johnson AirSpeed Indicator .... |
| From: | "womenfly2" <keriannprice(at)hotmail.com> |
If anyone is interested in one, I have some kits I put together ....... Please
click here. (https://sites.google.com/site/pietenpolplanpackages/pietenpol-plan-packages)
--------
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312204#312204
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "dwilson" <marwilson(at)charter.net> |
http://www.startribune.com/opinion/commentary/102655644.html?elr=KArks:DCiU1PciUiD3aPc:_Yyc:aUU
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312218#312218
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Sexy Rib Art |
| From: | "Pieti Lowell" <Lowellcfrank(at)yahoo.com> |
Has she got a sister ?
Pieti Lowell
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312230#312230
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wing education, please advise.. |
| From: | "Pieti Lowell" <Lowellcfrank(at)yahoo.com> |
Is it possible to get a better glide ratio if I stop the prop from rotating , or
does that make it worse ? I will try it and let you all know, if it also can
be restarted, just in case Palmyra is too far away , I'm Thinking. I'm Thinking,
Maybe a video would prove some of my claims,.
By the way, the 612 airfoil has under camber and a gorgeous fuller front side
that makes a shape as sexy as they come.
Pieti Lowell
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312236#312236
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Doug Dever <chiefpepperhead(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing education, please advise.. |
Yes=2C Lowell=2C you will. It's just about the same drag as a disc of the
same diameter. Similar to setting a windmilling propeller to zero thrust
when simulating an engine failure in a twin. Not quite as good=2C but beat
s a windmilling prop any day. even in my ultralight I noticed a difference
.
Doug Dever
In beautiful Stow Ohio
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing education=2C please advise..
> From: Lowellcfrank(at)yahoo.com
> Date: Sun=2C 12 Sep 2010 15:45:12 -0700
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>
com>
>
> Is it possible to get a better glide ratio if I stop the prop from rotati
ng =2C or does that make it worse ? I will try it and let you all know=2C i
f it also can be restarted=2C just in case Palmyra is too far away =2C I'm
Thinking. I'm Thinking=2C Maybe a video would prove some of my claims=2C.
> By the way=2C the 612 airfoil has under camber and a gorgeous fuller fron
t side that makes a shape as sexy as they come.
> Pieti Lowell
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312236#312236
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Harvey Rule <harvey.rule(at)bell.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing education, please advise.. |
There is a certain revelution that when your prop is turning at that rev it
makes it seem like there is a big piece of wood in front of the aircraft
=2Clike a wall.Increase reves and it goes away=2Creduce revs and it goes aw
ay as well.Your prop makes much less drag when stopped.
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing education=2C please advise..
> From: Lowellcfrank(at)yahoo.com
> Date: Sun=2C 12 Sep 2010 15:45:12 -0700
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>
com>
>
> Is it possible to get a better glide ratio if I stop the prop from rotati
ng =2C or does that make it worse ? I will try it and let you all know=2C i
f it also can be restarted=2C just in case Palmyra is too far away =2C I'm
Thinking. I'm Thinking=2C Maybe a video would prove some of my claims=2C.
> By the way=2C the 612 airfoil has under camber and a gorgeous fuller fron
t side that makes a shape as sexy as they come.
> Pieti Lowell
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312236#312236
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Bungee to Spring Conversion Complete |
| From: | "kevinpurtee" <kevin.purtee(at)us.army.mil> |
Finished the swap on my split axle gear from bungees to springs. So far so good.
This is what I've noticed:
- the plane rocks back and forth a bit during taxi - never noticed that with the
bungees. Not a problem, just different,
- on landing, the plane is a bit more squirrelly. Again, not a problem,just need
to be aware, and I'm supposed to be paying attention anyway,
- the plane does not squat out under load near as much as it did with the bungees.
Thanks to Kelly Klaus. He's one of our list members. He came to visit a couple
of weeks ago and consented to be my crash-test dummy for the gross weight tests
on the new gear. Trusting guy!
Different subject: Tropical Storm Hermine ran 6" of water through my hangar. Really
inconvenient. No major damage though. I continue to be extremely fortunate.
--------
Kevin Purtee
NX899KP
Austin/Georgetown, TX
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312242#312242
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: to weld or not to weld |
| From: | Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
Yup aluminum welding is even fun with a TIG (yes I know real men weld
aluminum with gas). Would recommend .040 or .050 5052, .032 works but is
more of a challenge to weld.
rick
On Sun, Sep 12, 2010 at 8:20 AM, Michael Perez wrote:
> I tried to get away from welding at first. I had not welded in a long, long
> time and while building the plane, I did not want to take the time to
> re-learn how to do it. I am fortunate enough to have access to a nice TIG
> welder, so I took the time to practice and talk to other welders for help. I
> now have plenty of welded fittings made and I really do enjoy doing it. It
> is a nice break from the wood and epoxy sometimes. I enjoy it so much that I
> am going to tackle making my own aluminum fuel tank soon.
>
> Michael Perez
> Karetaker Aero
> www.karetakeraero.com
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com> |
Sorry to any of you on list I have not responded to, I just checked my spam
folder and found that some piet list measages have been geting "Spam Canne
d" for about 3 weeks.- Thanks to all for the kind words (and funny ones t
oo) about my new baby boy.-
-
Happy Building, Flying, And Fixing
-
Shad=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB" <steven.d.dortch(at)us.army.mil> |
| Subject: | Re: Flight training |
Roger, Now I get to throw out some random ideas.
The EAA still has an ultralight organization that has instructors. I would check
there. I think he will have to travel.
Look over at Hobbs, NM.
I would also do some calling in Sweetwater and Abilene. San Angelo has a big flying
population (relatively.).
The other thought he may look at is finding someone with the most similar training
aircraft and going there to get the training.
It sure is a good idea for him to get training. Ultralights don't require any training
by reg. But a lot of people have been hurt training themselves how to
fly!
Blue Skies,
Steve D
----- Original Message -----
From: skellytown flyer <skellflyer1(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Sunday, September 12, 2010 7:33
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Flight training
>
> Good to know-thanks. Dumas is only about 65 miles from here.but Midland is about
175 or so miles south so probably this fellow won't be able to get
> much good from him.plus I found out what he has built is a very
> light singe seat that would probably qualify as a legal ultralight
> so he will need to get some training in a very light aircraft but
> unless he wants to pursue the full ticket wouldn't have to and
> still fly.we did locate an instructor up in Perryton even farther
> north of here that has an aircraft that he trains with so if the
> guy wants to drive this far maybe he can get some training from him.
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312198#312198
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Sexy Rib Art |
| From: | "Billy McCaskill" <billmz(at)cox.net> |
Hey Pieti,
Her sister's number is GA30-612, and I hear she is available...
[Laughing]
--------
Billy McCaskill
Urbana, IL
tail section almost done, starting on ribs soon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312263#312263
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Bungee to Spring Conversion Complete |
| From: | "Kelly Klaus" <kklaus1(at)austin.rr.com> |
Kevin,
It was my pleasure to be your test dummy, no crash included hehe.
What an experience, I'm already gearing up for getting some wood soon.
Unfortunately I do have some bad news. Two Saturdays ago, our B-25 Yellow Rose
was flying out to Lancaster for a show. Somewhere over Austin the oil pressure
on our #1 Wright Cyclone Radial engine (rebuilt last year) began dropping while
the oil temp on the same engine rose. with this event, the crew shut the engine
down and brought her safely back to KHYI on one engine.
So now we're in the midst of figuring out how we can get the engine rebuilt and
getting funding to do so. :(
--------
Kelly Klaus
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312280#312280
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "skellytown flyer" <skellflyer1(at)yahoo.com> |
How were you planning on making these louvers? I had given thought to getting some
in the sides of my lower cowl,and may some day more for looks but not sure
I could do any kind of a decent job by hand. I have seen advertisements in car
magazines for people who do such things and I'm guessing they have some kind
of special tool for it. also I am not sure how well light aluminum would hold
the shape and not develop cracks pretty fast. Raymond
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312284#312284
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wing education, please advise.. |
| From: | "Pieti Lowell" <Lowellcfrank(at)yahoo.com> |
Will it be to my advantage to turn the radiator side ways to gain 10 inches of
air space under the wing and also not to interfere with air over the wing with
the radiator?. BP built 3 such horizontal radiator installation.
Pieti Lowell
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312288#312288
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing education, please advise.. |
Two concerns immediately occur to me. First, will cooling ability
decline? Second, will the vertical center of pressure be shifted,
necessitating larger vertical tail members? I don't know if either of
these would be real-world problems, but they may be worth considering.
>
>Will it be to my advantage to turn the radiator side ways to gain 10
>inches of air space under the wing and also not to interfere with
>air over the wing with the radiator?. BP built 3 such horizontal
>radiator installation.
>Pieti Lowell
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312288#312288
>
--
Jeff Boatright
"Now let's think about this..."
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | airlion <airlion(at)bellsouth.net> |
Quality Machine in Lagrange Ga. has a tool that stsmps out louvers . Gardiner
--- On Mon, 9/13/10, skellytown flyer wrote:
> From: skellytown flyer <skellflyer1(at)yahoo.com>
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: louvers
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Monday, September 13, 2010, 8:39 AM
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted
> by: "skellytown flyer"
>
> How were you planning on making these louvers? I had given
> thought to getting some in the sides of my lower cowl,and
> may some day more for looks but not sure I could do any kind
> of a decent job by hand. I have seen advertisements in car
> magazines for people who do such things and I'm guessing
> they have some kind of special tool for it. also I am not
> sure how well light aluminum would hold the shape and not
> develop cracks pretty fast. Raymond
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312284#312284
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Email Forum -
> FAQ,
> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
> List Contribution Web Site -
> -Matt
> Dralle, List Admin.
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: to weld or not to weld |
| From: | "womenfly2" <keriannprice(at)hotmail.com> |
I learned to master TIG & GAS welding by myself with lots of metal scrap and mental
frustration at first, but the end accomplishment was very rewarding.
Also ... a little something on TIG welding 4130 (http://www.weldingtipsandtricks.com/welding-4130.html).
Enjoy.
WF2
.... the real cost of welding is all the clothes that have little burn holes in
them!
--------
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312301#312301
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dale Johnson" <ddjohn(at)earthlink.net> |
How did you find that.
Dale
> [Original Message]
> From: dwilson <marwilson(at)charter.net>
> To:
> Date: 9/12/2010 1:35:02 PM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: atta boy! Dale
>
>
http://www.startribune.com/opinion/commentary/102655644.html?elr=KArks:DCiU1
PciUiD3aPc:_Yyc:aUU
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312218#312218
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol airlines shirts |
| From: | "Pieti Lowell" <Lowellcfrank(at)yahoo.com> |
Anyone interested in a sassy Piet shirt ?
Pieti Lowell
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312344#312344
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/imgp1061_871.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Clif Dawson" <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: to weld or not to weld |
Ah, yes. Many years ago, in high school, one of my friends went into the
welding cubicle wearing a really fancy shirt.
He came out wearing a couple of wisps of black carbon and a
priceless look on his face.
Finally! I have my Terra radio, with built in intercom, wired
and working. I just have to get a friend to help me test the
transmission end of things.
So far I'm overjoyed at the reception. My elevation is about
200' asl. To the North is Vancouver harbour, tower about
400' asl, great reception. To the South, behind a 500' ridge,
is Vancouver International, very good, 4 1/2 out of 5.
Further South is Boundary Bay and I'd say 3 1/2 to 4 out
of 5. So it appears that all those control wires surounding
my antenna aren't interfering much, if any.
Clif
> Enjoy.
> WF2
>
> .... the real cost of welding is all the clothes that have little burn
> holes in them!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris" <catdesigns(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | My website problems |
My website is currently undergoing a rebellious period and hiding all the
links. I added some more pictures to the web page last week and every time I
tried to upload the website the upload would end on some server error. So I
decided to reload the whole web page. After 9 hours of uploading files, the
sever "Timed out" at the last step. I have tried this 3 times now. I tried
fixing it all weekend before anyone noticed but it did not work. Now I have
decided to rewrite the whole web site architecture from scratch hoping to
speed up my upload times. Might take me a few days or weeks.
The files are still on the server so if your desperate try this, type in the
http://westcoastpiet.com/ in the address bar then add the builders name or
page don't forget to connect the names with an underline, followed by .htm
It would look something like this if you wanted to see don_emoch pictures
http://westcoastpiet.com/don_emoch.htm
Unfortunately, there has always been some kind of glitch in the naming
structure so not all pages have the correct name, some are called
new_page_XX.
You can always email me and I will send you a link to the page you are
looking for after I get home from work.
Sorry for the inconvenience.
Chris
Sacramento, Ca
Westcoastpiet.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Pietenpolie Girl T- Shirt |
| From: | "Pieti Lowell" <Lowellcfrank(at)yahoo.com> |
Sample of shirt is available on the post of John's (Pietenpol Airline Shirt ).post
Sept.
The student Emily Herns, is a past Robotic student of mine, now going for her ME
Degree at WI. She is of a single parent family and is pulling a 4.0.
Very interesting to talk with. If you wish to donate and order a Pietenpolie
Girl Shirt , all for her collage, Email your size and amount, or your donations
to " lowellcfrank(at)yahoo.com ".her P.O.Box will be available for a direct contact.
I have a few left and will order more. Thank you fellows.
Pieti Lowell
Don't Archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312394#312394
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Band Brakes Available |
| From: | "kevinpurtee" <kevin.purtee(at)us.army.mil> |
During cleanup from TS Hermine I rediscovered these 4" diameter band brakes (drums
and bands). I'm not using them and they'll eventually rust to ruin. Call
me at 512-422-6371 if you want them. I'd like $10 for postage. Other than that,
free to a good home.
Axel
--------
Kevin Purtee
NX899KP
Austin/Georgetown, TX
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312417#312417
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/brakes2_117.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Band Brakes Available |
| From: | "kevinpurtee" <kevin.purtee(at)us.army.mil> |
SOLD!!! to Brian in Utah.
--------
Kevin Purtee
NX899KP
Austin/Georgetown, TX
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312420#312420
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Band Brakes Available |
Thanks again.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
kevinpurtee
Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2010 10:23 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Band Brakes Available
SOLD!!! to Brian in Utah.
--------
Kevin Purtee
NX899KP
Austin/Georgetown, TX
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312420#312420
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | AMsafetyC(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Band Brakes Available |
Axel as you know,Ill be in Houston Wednesday so no postage necessary
John Recine
In a message dated 9/14/2010 12:44:22 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
kevin.purtee(at)us.army.mil writes:
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "kevinpurtee"
During cleanup from TS Hermine I rediscovered these 4" diameter band
brakes (drums and bands). I'm not using them and they'll eventually rust to
ruin. Call me at 512-422-6371 if you want them. I'd like $10 for postage.
Other than that, free to a good home.
Axel
--------
Kevin Purtee
NX899KP
Austin/Georgetown, TX
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312417#312417
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/brakes2_117.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com> |
Here is a photo of the Bell Clan minus Grandpa, and his Pietenpol, "Little
Joe", Me, and "Shakey Jake", Joe is 2 weeks, I am 32, and Jake is 22months.
- If I wasnt a lard Butt, that piet could carry my whole family!!!!
-
Shad=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | 131 photos from Brodhead, 2010 |
Relive a fun, fun time. Wow, is it really September 14th already ?
Mike C.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/52843195@N03/sets/
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 131 photos from Brodhead, 2010 |
| From: | gboothe5(at)comcast.net |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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Yocum <yocum137(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Me and the Boys |
Wow. Hard to believe kids come that small - I barely remember those days and
they weren't that long ago.
Good lookin' brood ya got there, Shad.
--
Dan Yocum
yocum137(at)gmail.com
"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
On Sep 14, 2010, at 7:17 PM, shad bell wrote:
> Here is a photo of the Bell Clan minus Grandpa, and his Pietenpol, "Little
Joe", Me, and "Shakey Jake", Joe is 2 weeks, I am 32, and Jake is 22months.
If I wasnt a lard Butt, that piet could carry my whole family!!!!
>
> Shad
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 131 photos from Brodhead, 2010 |
| From: | "Dan P" <dlplett(at)swko.net> |
All I'm getting is:
Page Not Found
Oops! Looks like you followed a bad link.
--------
Dan Plett
N28WH
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312472#312472
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 131 photos from Brodhead, 2010 |
| From: | "echobravo4" <eab4(at)comcast.net> |
maybe this is it?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/52843195@N03/sets/72157624958514006/with/4991002689/
--------
Earl Brown
I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I
intended to be.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312479#312479
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 131 photos from Brodhead, 2010 |
| From: | "echobravo4" <eab4(at)comcast.net> |
maybe this is it?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/52843195@N03/sets/72157624958514006/with/4991002689/
--------
Earl Brown
I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I
intended to be.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312480#312480
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Boyer <boyerjrb(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Me and the Boys |
Hey Shad,
Great family photo except where is momma and grandpa?
Piet still really good looking too.
Jim B.
----- Original Message -----
From: "shad bell" <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2010 5:17:08 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Me and the Boys
Here is a photo of the Bell Clan minus Grandpa, and his Pietenpol, "Little Joe",
Me, and "Shakey Jake", Joe is 2 weeks, I am 32, and Jake is 22months. If I wasnt
a lard Butt, that piet could carry my whole family!!!!
Shad
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gene Rambo <generambo(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Brodhead 2011 dates |
Can someone give me the exact dates for Brodhead 2011? I am bidding for my
vacation next year and I need to make sure I get the right dates.
Gene
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TOM MICHELLE BRANT <tmbrant(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | 131 photos from Brodhead, 2010 |
Thanks for sharing these - makes me wish I had been there.
From: michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov
Date: Tue=2C 14 Sep 2010 19:45:46 -0500
Subject: Pietenpol-List: 131 photos from Brodhead=2C 2010
Relive a fun=2C fun time. Wow=2C is it really September 14th already
?
Mike C.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/52843195@N03/sets/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Yocum <yocum(at)fnal.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: Brodhead 2011 dates |
Gene,
Airventure is supposed to be on July 25-31, 2011, so the Piet reunion
will be the July 21-24.
How's covering coming?
Dan
On 09/14/2010 10:28 PM, Gene Rambo wrote:
> Can someone give me the exact dates for Brodhead 2011? I am bidding for
> my vacation next year and I need to make sure I get the right dates.
>
> Gene
>
> *
>
>
> *
--
Dan Yocum
Fermilab 630.840.6509
yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Brodhead 2011 dates |
| From: | Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com> |
Gene,
Checked on the BPA and 431 site, and they don't have any calendars or
official announcements that far out yet. However, unless there is
some unforeseen break from how it is usually scheduled it should be Thursday
July 21 through Saturday July 23 (wrapping up/departing on Sunday July
24)....that is my educated guess.
Ryan
On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 10:28 PM, Gene Rambo wrote:
> Can someone give me the exact dates for Brodhead 2011? I am bidding for
> my vacation next year and I need to make sure I get the right dates.
>
> Gene
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 131 photos from Brodhead, 2010 |
| From: | Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com> |
You are accessing the email list from the web-based forum. Mike sent his
message to the list via email, and it appears when Matronics put it on the
web-based forum it automatically replaced the @ symbol (on your keyboard,
above the 2) from the link with "(at)". Replace the "(at)" in the link from
Mike's post on the web-based forum with the @ symbol above the number 2 on
your keyboard and the link will work fine. Everyone that received Mike's
post via email should have had no problem with the link. See the attached
pic....
Ryan
On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 8:52 PM, Dan P wrote:
>
> All I'm getting is:
>
> Page Not Found
>
> Oops! Looks like you followed a bad link.
>
> --------
> Dan Plett
> N28WH
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312472#312472
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "coxwelljon" <coxwelljon(at)frontiernet.net> |
Sept. issue of Atlantic Flyer has a ready to bolt together piet and cont A65 engine for sale ($5000). http://www.aflyer.com/classified.html
--------
Jon Coxwell
GN-1 Builder
Recycle and preserve the planet
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312490#312490
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Parts for Piets? |
| From: | "TriScout" <apfelcyber(at)yahoo.com> |
Found a link that may have an occasional hard to find part for a Piet builder.
It's really a Cub site.. Larry
http://www.j3-cub.com/smf/index.php?board=3.0
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312499#312499
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Flight test report |
| From: | helspersew(at)aol.com |
Hello all,
Took the Piet up last evening. It was glorious weather and windless. She
flies like a dream. Water temps are about 185 at cruise power. I am still
having that same old problem, where on final the A wants to sputter and
quit if I pull the throttle all the way back. I have not tried to change
anything yet, but I think before the next flight I am going to restrict
the carb heat can air-intake opening, in order to pick-up more heat from
the #1 exhaust stack. That would address the possibility that the problem
was carb ice.
At present I am designing a killer logo that is going to be hand-painted
to both the fuselage sides. I cannot reveal what it is quite yet, as I am
sure Gene Rambo would steal it and show up at Brodhead right before me ne
xt year.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Pietenpolie Girl |
| From: | "Pieti Lowell" <Lowellcfrank(at)yahoo.com> |
Just in case it is difficult to see a neat shirt. a few left.
Pieti Lowell
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312513#312513
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/pietenpolie_girl_005_180.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | FW: Save Big on EAA How-to Books! |
For those just getting started building a Pietenpol, all of these items
are
worth having, and the Bingelis books are =93must have=94 items. The
Aircraft
wWelding book has a lot of good information, including the key steps to
produce the flattened tubing parts that are used to a great extent in
building a Pietenpol. Even the Sheet Metal book and DVD are useful, as
there is a fair amount of riveting involved in making a Pietenpol
cowling.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
_____
From: EAA Aeronautica [mailto:membership(at)eaa.mmsend.com] On Behalf Of
EAA
Aeronautica
Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2010 10:06 AM
Subject: Save Big on EAA How-to Books!
<http://www.mmsend2.com/link.cfm?r=221352930&sid=10701358&m=1109092
&u=ExAA2&
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email online
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&u=ExAA2&
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But hurry-this offer ends Tuesday, September 21!
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If you do not wish to receive further emails from EAA, please email
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We welcome your questions, comments and suggestions to
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Me and the Boys |
Mom was taking the picture.- She got home with the boys and came out to s
ee what I was into.- Just thought it was a good photo op, get him started
early into aviation.
-
Shad
--- On Tue, 9/14/10, Jim Boyer wrote:
From: Jim Boyer <boyerjrb(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Me and the Boys
Date: Tuesday, September 14, 2010, 11:02 PM
Hey Shad,
Great family photo except where is momma and grandpa?
Piet still really good looking too.
Jim B.
----- Original Message -----
From: "shad bell" <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2010 5:17:08 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Me and the Boys
Here is a photo of the Bell Clan minus Grandpa, and his Pietenpol, "Little
Joe", Me, and "Shakey Jake", Joe is 2 weeks, I am 32, and Jake is 22months.
- If I wasnt a lard Butt, that piet could carry my whole family!!!!
-
Shad
le, List Admin.
=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Me and the Boys |
Very nice Shad! One question...what size/material struts did you use for the cabane
to engine mounts?
Michael Perez
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Auxillary Fuel System |
| From: | "kevinpurtee" <kevin.purtee(at)us.army.mil> |
I'd like your thoughts on ways to add the redneck Extended Range Fuel System (ERFS)
to the airplane. The design I'm currently considering is as follows:
- A 3 to 5 gallon can securely strapped in the front seat,
- A small pump driven by two D batteries with a dead-man switch (this pump may
not have enough power, but it was only $13 so I felt it worth the experiment),
- Hoses secured appropriately from can to pump, up and over the wing, then to the
fuel tank filler on top of wing,
- Modified gas cap to accept the inlet line.
Assumptions:
- No permanent mods to the airplane,
- No passengers,
- Portable and removable in 30 minutes with hand tools,
- Used only on long cross-country flights.
We have an outstanding safety culture on this list. If you're concerned about
the gas, be advised that I fly with 11 gallons 6" above my head every time I take
off. A well-secured auxillary tank with equally well-secured hardware and
plumbing is acceptable to me.
I welcome any suggestions or ideas to do it better.
Thanks,
Axel
--------
Kevin Purtee
NX899KP
Austin/Georgetown, TX
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312541#312541
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Auxillary Fuel System |
Kevin,
When I put the smoke system in my Pietenpol, I used a 3 gallon portable fuel
tank for an outboard motor, which I purchased at West Marine. If fits
perfectly on the floorboard between the front rudder pedals, and is secured
by using a bungee cord stretched over the tank behind the filler neck and
attached to a pair of eyebolts in the ash crossmember behind the rudder
pedals. Here is the website for the fuel tank:
http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId
=27615&catalogId=10001&langId=-1&storeId=11151&storeNum=10106&subdeptNum=104
43&classNum=10444
I think I would use a tank such as this rather than a can. It has a gage
built in, has a good sealing cap and a closeable vent. If you use an
outboard type fuel line, it also has a quick disconnect and a priming bulb,
to get the fuel from the tank to your pump. I think I would use your main
tank until you have flown out at least 3 gallons, then use this tank to
re-fill the main tank.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of kevinpurtee
Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2010 2:52 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Auxillary Fuel System
I'd like your thoughts on ways to add the redneck Extended Range Fuel System
(ERFS) to the airplane. The design I'm currently considering is as follows:
- A 3 to 5 gallon can securely strapped in the front seat,
- A small pump driven by two D batteries with a dead-man switch (this pump
may not have enough power, but it was only $13 so I felt it worth the
experiment),
- Hoses secured appropriately from can to pump, up and over the wing, then
to the fuel tank filler on top of wing,
- Modified gas cap to accept the inlet line.
Assumptions:
- No permanent mods to the airplane,
- No passengers,
- Portable and removable in 30 minutes with hand tools,
- Used only on long cross-country flights.
We have an outstanding safety culture on this list. If you're concerned
about the gas, be advised that I fly with 11 gallons 6" above my head every
time I take off. A well-secured auxillary tank with equally well-secured
hardware and plumbing is acceptable to me.
I welcome any suggestions or ideas to do it better.
Thanks,
Axel
--------
Kevin Purtee
NX899KP
Austin/Georgetown, TX
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312541#312541
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Me and the Boys |
I would have to check with Dad, I believe it is 3/4 od, not sure on the wal
l thickness, probably at least .049".- There is a hole drilled through th
e bottom end with a bushing welded in, and you can probably see the fork en
d on top.- It is a little bit of a sharp angle, not the best angle in the
event of a sudden stoppage crash, it would probably be better if it was a
little flatter of an angle.- Be glad the piet cabanes are simple to fabri
cate, my jungster 1 struts are a real pain, lots of compound angles and lot
s of welding opperations in comparison.
-
Shad
--- On Wed, 9/15/10, Michael Perez wrote:
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Me and the Boys
Date: Wednesday, September 15, 2010, 2:13 PM
Very nice Shad! One question...what size/material struts did you use for th
e cabane to engine mounts?
Michael Perez
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | airlion <airlion(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Auxillary Fuel System |
Hey Axel, Put a probe on top of your center section and call for a tanker.
Cheers, Gardiner
----- Original Message ----
From: kevinpurtee <kevin.purtee(at)us.army.mil>
Sent: Wed, September 15, 2010 2:51:40 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Auxillary Fuel System
I'd like your thoughts on ways to add the redneck Extended Range Fuel System
(ERFS) to the airplane. The design I'm currently considering is as follows:
- A 3 to 5 gallon can securely strapped in the front seat,
- A small pump driven by two D batteries with a dead-man switch (this pump may
not have enough power, but it was only $13 so I felt it worth the experiment),
- Hoses secured appropriately from can to pump, up and over the wing, then to
the fuel tank filler on top of wing,
- Modified gas cap to accept the inlet line.
Assumptions:
- No permanent mods to the airplane,
- No passengers,
- Portable and removable in 30 minutes with hand tools,
- Used only on long cross-country flights.
We have an outstanding safety culture on this list. If you're concerned about
the gas, be advised that I fly with 11 gallons 6" above my head every time I
take off. A well-secured auxillary tank with equally well-secured hardware and
plumbing is acceptable to me.
I welcome any suggestions or ideas to do it better.
Thanks,
Axel
--------
Kevin Purtee
NX899KP
Austin/Georgetown, TX
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312541#312541
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Flight test report |
| From: | "Mild Bill" <whfrank(at)charter.net> |
Don, was that you flying over Roscoe just before the Fall Festival parade last
Sunday?
--------
Bill Frank
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312554#312554
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Me and the Boys |
Thank you !
Michael Perez
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | rear torque tube bearing, wear |
Has anyone else noticed any wear to the rear torque tube support sleeve bea
ring (the one right under the front of the rear cockpit seat).- I noticed
it last night while taking out the front stick in preperation for the lee
bottom fly-in.- It is just starting to get a little bit of radial play, s
o I had to take it apart to inspect how much wear there was.- It is worn
but not worn out yet ( about 5/1000 or so), I think I will see if dad wants
to redesign it with a small roller bearing to illiminate the problem, if i
t were to wear too much the aft end of the aileron torque tube-could be c
ut off, causing a possible loss of control.- Just thought I would throw t
his out there, and see if any of you have noticed any similar wear.- The
way I found the wear was to grab the- torque tube (on the floor in the re
ar cockpit) and move it from side to side, up and down, and see if it moves
in the ----O---- looking suport.- You will have to pull the seat bottom
to be able to see the- rear bearing support, but you will hear the tube
moving around if it has any play in it.-
-
Let me know if anyone finds anything,
-
Shad=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Auxillary Fuel System |
Kevin,
When you get that extra tank figgered out, you'll need the civilian version
of the Human Element Range Extender.
Gary Boothe
Cool, CA
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
20 ribs done
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of kevinpurtee
Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2010 11:52 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Auxillary Fuel System
I'd like your thoughts on ways to add the redneck Extended Range Fuel System
(ERFS) to the airplane. The design I'm currently considering is as follows:
- A 3 to 5 gallon can securely strapped in the front seat,
- A small pump driven by two D batteries with a dead-man switch (this pump
may not have enough power, but it was only $13 so I felt it worth the
experiment),
- Hoses secured appropriately from can to pump, up and over the wing, then
to the fuel tank filler on top of wing,
- Modified gas cap to accept the inlet line.
Assumptions:
- No permanent mods to the airplane,
- No passengers,
- Portable and removable in 30 minutes with hand tools,
- Used only on long cross-country flights.
We have an outstanding safety culture on this list. If you're concerned
about the gas, be advised that I fly with 11 gallons 6" above my head every
time I take off. A well-secured auxillary tank with equally well-secured
hardware and plumbing is acceptable to me.
I welcome any suggestions or ideas to do it better.
Thanks,
Axel
--------
Kevin Purtee
NX899KP
Austin/Georgetown, TX
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312541#312541
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wing education, please advise.. |
| From: | "j_dunavin" <j_dunavin(at)hotmail.com> |
Just a few more questions:
I really like the idea of incorporating a "gap less" aileron on our wing as seen
here:
https://sites.google.com/site/pietenpolplanpackages/pietenpol-plan-packages
How does the riblet design work in the ailerons? Do i still need gap tape? Would
this kit work on the new wing?
And to summarize the riblet wing will provide better stall, lift, and cruise performance?
Thanks for the help
Joe
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312590#312590
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wing education, please advise.. |
| From: | Dan Yocum <yocum137(at)gmail.com> |
Sealing your aileron, and elevator gaps is a Very Good Idea! The plane handles
much better. Jack, Mike, and others use piano hinge to get the effect. I'm using
strips of Naugahyde and contact cement to perform the same thing. Heck, painters
and duct tape work well, too.
Just my 2 cents.
Dan
--
Dan Yocum
yocum137(at)gmail.com
"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
On Sep 15, 2010, at 10:46 PM, j_dunavin wrote:
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Auxillary Fuel System |
| From: | "tkreiner" <tkreiner(at)gmail.com> |
Kevin,
Have you considered the pressure head requirement to pump fuel the distance from
floor or seat to the wing tank?
Personally I'd run a simple test to see if the batteries and pump had sufficient
power to do the job and exactly how many gallons they would pump prior to exhaustion.
Kinda hard to swap batteries at 85 K and 2500ft
Just my .02.
--------
Tom Kreiner
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312600#312600
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ben Charvet <bencharvet(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Auxillary Fuel System |
If you were to use the boat fuel tank, you could probably do the
transfer with the primer bulb. Give you something to do as the scenery
went by and some exercise too!
Ben
On 9/16/2010 7:56 AM, tkreiner wrote:
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "tkreiner"
>
> Kevin,
>
> Have you considered the pressure head requirement to pump fuel the distance from
floor or seat to the wing tank?
>
> Personally I'd run a simple test to see if the batteries and pump had sufficient
power to do the job and exactly how many gallons they would pump prior to
exhaustion.
>
> Kinda hard to swap batteries at 85 K and 2500ft
>
> Just my .02.
>
> --------
> Tom Kreiner
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312600#312600
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Auxillary Fuel System |
| From: | "kevinpurtee" <kevin.purtee(at)us.army.mil> |
Thanks for the comments. Particularly like Gardiner's idea:).
The total lift will be 4-5 feet. Not sure the $13 double D battery pump's going
to do that. Not much lost if it doesn't work, though.
I thought about the hand squeeze bulb. I did the calc's and that looks like it
will take a LOOOONNNGGG time to work. Also not sure it'll have the power to
lift that high. I do have one and will run the experiment.
--------
Kevin Purtee
NX899KP
Austin/Georgetown, TX
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312610#312610
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Auxillary Fuel System |
Kevin,
I've been traveling the last couple days, and not sure I fully understood
your inquiry, but the 601 guys use a little 'facet' pump, supplying positive
carb pressure from a low-wing wing tank, that would easily run off your
electric system.
Gary Boothe
Cool, CA
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
20 ribs done
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of kevinpurtee
Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2010 6:06 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Auxillary Fuel System
Thanks for the comments. Particularly like Gardiner's idea:).
The total lift will be 4-5 feet. Not sure the $13 double D battery pump's
going to do that. Not much lost if it doesn't work, though.
I thought about the hand squeeze bulb. I did the calc's and that looks like
it will take a LOOOONNNGGG time to work. Also not sure it'll have the power
to lift that high. I do have one and will run the experiment.
--------
Kevin Purtee
NX899KP
Austin/Georgetown, TX
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312610#312610
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Auxillary Fuel System |
| From: | "coxwelljon" <coxwelljon(at)frontiernet.net> |
kevinpurtee wrote:
>
> - Hoses secured appropriately from can to pump, up and over the wing, then to
the fuel tank filler on top of wing,
> - Modified gas cap to accept the inlet line.
>
>
> Axel
I would add that you should be very careful with your connection to the gas cap.
I have heard of engine stoppage and even depletion of fuel out the cap due
to improper venting of wing tanks. There is a lot of negative pressure there.
You could extend your range by a negative 2 hrs especially if the temporary
fuel line came loose.
My $0.02
Jon
--------
Jon Coxwell
GN-1 Builder
Recycle and preserve the planet
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312618#312618
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wing education, please advise.. |
| From: | "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca> |
Joe,
The "Riblett design" is simply an airfoil, not a whole wing design. You're really
on your own to figure out all the little details.
My assumption would be that the truss structure of a Riblett rib would mimic the
structure shown in the Pietenpol plans, and everything else (e.g. ailerons)
would follow suit. Therefore, if the Pietenpol wing benefits from gap sealing,
then the Riblett would also benefit in the same manner. The easiest method to
seal the aileron gaps is to use a piano hinge, like Dan said.
Your summary regarding the Riblett airfoils is basically what is being claimed.
As far as I know, Pieti Lowell's is the only flying example of a Riblett airfoil
on a Piet (I may be wrong on that, though), and he claims improved performance.
Anecdotally, I overheard someone at Brodhead a couple of years ago saying that
the Riblett airfoil will provide twice the lift, and double the cruise speed,
and cut the stall speed in half... I took ALL of that with a BIG grain of salt.
No doubt a different airfoil will result in different performance. Just how
much different is the question, and whether it is an improvement is another. It
seems that there are quite a few new builders constructing their Piets with
Riblett airfoils. So, if and when they get them flying, we'll have some more flying
examples to refer to. As it stands now, it is really difficult to tell,
since there can be so much difference in performance from one Piet to another,
due to all the design changes that builders make, as well as powerplant, propeller
and other choices available. Would be really good to have another builder
or two do what Lowell did, and fly the exact same aircraft with the two different
airfoils, and compare the performances. But that means a LOT of work - most
of us have enough challenge just getting one wing built (right, Gary?).
In short, either airfoil will fly the plane just fine. If you want "tried and true",
stick with the plans. If you want to experiment with possible performance
improvements, and are willing to work out more little details on your own, then
give the Riblett a go. (the choice of Riblett airfoils is up to you, as there
were two suggested by Mr. Riblett as being suitable for the Piet).
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312625#312625
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Auxillary Fuel System |
| From: | hvandervoo(at)aol.com |
Kevin,
This $ 13 pump better be spark proof and specially made for gasoline type
fuels.
Diesel pumps are no good in this application, flash point of diesel is muc
h higher than gasoline.
Suggest you look into a simple electric booster pump, try Summit racing fo
r some product ideas.
You will need 12 Volts but small rechargeable batteries are cheap.
Hans
NX15KV
Waller, TX
----- Original Message ----
From: kevinpurtee <kevin.purtee(at)us.army.mil>
Sent: Wed, September 15, 2010 2:51:40 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Auxillary Fuel System
mil>
I'd like your thoughts on ways to add the redneck Extended Range Fuel Syst
em
(ERFS) to the airplane. The design I'm currently considering is as follow
s:
- A 3 to 5 gallon can securely strapped in the front seat,
- A small pump driven by two D batteries with a dead-man switch (this pump
may
not have enough power, but it was only $13 so I felt it worth the experime
nt),
- Hoses secured appropriately from can to pump, up and over the wing, then
to
the fuel tank filler on top of wing,
- Modified gas cap to accept the inlet line.
Assumptions:
- No permanent mods to the airplane,
- No passengers,
- Portable and removable in 30 minutes with hand tools,
- Used only on long cross-country flights.
We have an outstanding safety culture on this list. If you're concerned
about
the gas, be advised that I fly with 11 gallons 6" above my head every time
I
take off. A well-secured auxillary tank with equally well-secured hardwar
e and
plumbing is acceptable to me.
I welcome any suggestions or ideas to do it better.
Thanks,
Axel
--------
Kevin Purtee
NX899KP
Austin/Georgetown, TX
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312541#312541
========================
===========
========================
===========
========================
===========
========================
===========
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | airlion <airlion(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Auxillary Fuel System |
I have 20.5 gallons in my center section wing tank and don't need any more. But
if you do not have a wide center section why not go the tiger moth way and put
one on top. Gravity feed works great. I had a header tank at first and could not
get enough head pressure to the carb. Gardiner
________________________________
From: "hvandervoo(at)aol.com" <hvandervoo(at)aol.com>
Sent: Thu, September 16, 2010 11:17:32 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Auxillary Fuel System
Kevin,
This $ 13 pump better be spark proof and specially made for gasoline type fuels.
Diesel pumps are no good in this application, flash point of diesel is much
higher than gasoline.
Suggest you look into a simple electric booster pump, try Summit racing for some
product ideas.
You will need 12 Volts but small rechargeable batteries are cheap.
Hans
NX15KV
Waller, TX
----- Original Message ----
From: kevinpurtee <kevin.purtee(at)us.army.mil>
Sent: Wed, September 15, 2010 2:51:40 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Auxillary Fuel System
I'd like your thoughts on ways to add the redneck Extended Range Fuel System
(ERFS) to the airplane. The design I'm currently considering is as follows:
- A 3 to 5 gallon can securely strapped in the front seat,
- A small pump driven by two D batteries with a dead-man switch (this pump may
not have enough power, but it was only $13 so I felt it worth the experiment),
- Hoses secured appropriately from can to pump, up and over the wing, then to
the fuel tank filler on top of wing,
- Modified gas cap to accept the inlet line.
Assumptions:
- No permanent mods to the airplane,
- No passengers,
- Portable and removable in 30 minutes with hand tools,
- Used only on long cross-country flights.
We have an outstanding safety culture on this list. If you're concerned about
the gas, be advised that I fly with 11 gallons 6" above my head every time I
take off. A well-secured auxillary tank with equally well-secured hardware and
plumbing is acceptable to me.
I welcome any suggestions or ideas to do it better.
Thanks,
Axel
--------
Kevin Purtee
NX899KP
Austin/Georgetown, TX
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312541#312541
===================================
l-List Email Forum -
tenpol-List" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
===================================
sp; - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
=_blank>http://forums.matronics.com
===================================
sp; - List Contribution Web Site -
sp; -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
===================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | airlion <airlion(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Auxillary Fuel System |
________________________________
From: airlion <airlion(at)bellsouth.net>
Sent: Thu, September 16, 2010 12:14:24 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Auxillary Fuel System
I have 20.5 gallons in my center section wing tank and don't need any more. But
if you do not have a wide center section why not go the tiger moth way and put
one on top. Gravity feed works great. I had a header tank at first and could not
get enough head pressure to the carb. Gardiner
________________________________
From: "hvandervoo(at)aol.com" <hvandervoo(at)aol.com>
Sent: Thu, September 16, 2010 11:17:32 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Auxillary Fuel System
Kevin,
This $ 13 pump better be spark proof and specially made for gasoline type fuels.
Diesel pumps are no good in this application, flash point of diesel is much
higher than gasoline.
Suggest you look into a simple electric booster pump, try Summit racing for some
product ideas.
You will need 12 Volts but small rechargeable batteries are cheap.
Hans
NX15KV
Waller, TX
----- Original Message ----
From: kevinpurtee <kevin.purtee(at)us.army.mil>
Sent: Wed, September 15, 2010 2:51:40 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Auxillary Fuel System
I'd like your thoughts on ways to add the redneck Extended Range Fuel System
(ERFS) to the airplane. The design I'm currently considering is as follows:
- A 3 to 5 gallon can securely strapped in the front seat,
- A small pump driven by two D batteries with a dead-man switch (this pump may
not have enough power, but it was only $13 so I felt it worth the experiment),
- Hoses secured appropriately from can to pump, up and over the wing, then to
the fuel tank filler on top of wing,
- Modified gas cap to accept the inlet line.
Assumptions:
- No permanent mods to the airplane,
- No passengers,
- Portable and removable in 30 minutes with hand tools,
- Used only on long cross-country flights.
We have an outstanding safety culture on this list. If you're concerned about
the gas, be advised that I fly with 11 gallons 6" above my head every time I
take off. A well-secured auxillary tank with equally well-secured hardware and
plumbing is acceptable to me.
I welcome any suggestions or ideas to do it better.
Thanks,
Axel
--------
Kevin Purtee
NX899KP
Austin/Georgetown, TX
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312541#312541
===================================
l-List Email Forum -
tenpol-List" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
===================================
sp; - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
=_blank>http://forums.matronics.com
===================================
sp; - List Contribution Web Site -
sp; -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
===================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Auxillary Fuel System |
| From: | Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com> |
Hi Kevin,
I know you are looking at easy/simple and as safe as possible....but just
out of curiosity what do you have going on under the sheet metal between the
firewall and front panel? Coils, battery, etc? Empty space? If you are only
looking at only a 3 to 5 gallon tank maybe it would be worth the time to
install a small header tank properly plumbed into the system. You get the
extra range, still retain the ability to carry a passenger, should be able
to get away without a pump, and it would be a bit more safe than strapping a
can in the front seat. Just thinking....
Ryan
On Wed, Sep 15, 2010 at 1:51 PM, kevinpurtee wrote:
> kevin.purtee(at)us.army.mil>
>
> I'd like your thoughts on ways to add the redneck Extended Range Fuel
> System (ERFS) to the airplane.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Doug Dever <chiefpepperhead(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing education, please advise.. |
The problem I see is not the airfoil. This was discussed in depth about a
year ago. I brought up the idea of putting a piet on floats. It does not
have enough wing area. I have a fair amout of short wing Piper experience
on floats and they make good speed boats. If you compare a similar weight
airplane=2C the J-3 cub. The cub climbs better and is a good performer on
floats with 65hp. It certainly doesn't have a superior airfoil I don't bel
ieve. But it does have 178sqft of wing area compaired to the piet's 145 or
so. Incidentally the tripacer is a good performer on floats if you extend
the wing. You must extend the fuse. also. I believe to compensate for mo
re pitching moment. (Someone correct me on this if I'm wrong.) I feel pret
ty comfortable doing the loading analysis for the longer wing=2C but not th
e aerodynamics. I personally think any improvement with a new airfoil woul
d be marginal. (Yes I have my armor on for that statement) Lowell also has
more hp as well as the Riblett airfoil. SO=2C if you have to extend the f
use as well as the wing=2C then you don't have a Pietenpol any more.
I say if you want more permance...get more horse power. To quote my dad=2C
"You can never have to much horse power." Hence the reason for 220hp in o
ur 172. Didn't cruise much faster than a stock 172. But=2C it would lift
off at 45mph and climb 2000ft/min. far more performance than changing the
airfoil. Just my long winded .02
Doug Dever
In beautiful Stow Ohio
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing education=2C please advise..
> From: billspiet(at)sympatico.ca
> Date: Thu=2C 16 Sep 2010 07:28:33 -0700
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>
ca>
>
> Joe=2C
>
> The "Riblett design" is simply an airfoil=2C not a whole wing design. You
're really on your own to figure out all the little details.
> My assumption would be that the truss structure of a Riblett rib would mi
mic the structure shown in the Pietenpol plans=2C and everything else (e.g.
ailerons) would follow suit. Therefore=2C if the Pietenpol wing benefits f
rom gap sealing=2C then the Riblett would also benefit in the same manner.
The easiest method to seal the aileron gaps is to use a piano hinge=2C like
Dan said.
>
> Your summary regarding the Riblett airfoils is basically what is being cl
aimed. As far as I know=2C Pieti Lowell's is the only flying example of a R
iblett airfoil on a Piet (I may be wrong on that=2C though)=2C and he claim
s improved performance.
>
> Anecdotally=2C I overheard someone at Brodhead a couple of years ago sayi
ng that the Riblett airfoil will provide twice the lift=2C and double the c
ruise speed=2C and cut the stall speed in half... I took ALL of that with a
BIG grain of salt. No doubt a different airfoil will result in different p
erformance. Just how much different is the question=2C and whether it is an
improvement is another. It seems that there are quite a few new builders c
onstructing their Piets with Riblett airfoils. So=2C if and when they get t
hem flying=2C we'll have some more flying examples to refer to. As it stand
s now=2C it is really difficult to tell=2C since there can be so much diffe
rence in performance from one Piet to another=2C due to all the design chan
ges that builders make=2C as well as powerplant=2C propeller and other choi
ces available. Would be really good to have another builder or two do what
Lowell did=2C and fly the exact same aircraft with the two different airfoi
ls=2C and compare the performances. But th!
> at means a LOT of work - most of us have enough challenge just getting on
e wing built (right=2C Gary?).
>
> In short=2C either airfoil will fly the plane just fine. If you want "tri
ed and true"=2C stick with the plans. If you want to experiment with possib
le performance improvements=2C and are willing to work out more little deta
ils on your own=2C then give the Riblett a go. (the choice of Riblett airfo
ils is up to you=2C as there were two suggested by Mr. Riblett as being sui
table for the Piet).
>
> Bill C.
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312625#312625
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Photo: Axel's Piet at home |
| From: | "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca> |
Stumbled across this nice shot of Kevin's Piet, sitting in the hangar, with the
cowling off, apparently about a month prior to Brodhead.
http://www.airport-data.com/aircraft/photo/522835L.html
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312673#312673
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "TOM STINEMETZE" <TOMS(at)mcpcity.com> |
Question concerning axle alignment on a split axle gear. (Not a split
Axel which is a different situation altogether.)
The plans for the split axle gear show the use of aircraft style
balloon tires. Those plans indicate the axles should be set with a 2
angle from vertical when the bungees are fully extended. I am using
19" motorcycle tires and die springs instead of the balloons and
bungees. Is the 2 angle still appropriate? Is any toe-in or toe-out
desirable? I'm almost ready to weld these up so any useful information
would be very welcome.
Tom Stinemetze
N328X
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Billy McCaskill" <billmz(at)cox.net> |
Going strictly by intuition and not from experience, I would say that the 2 degree
camber angle would be fine, but I don't think that you want any toe-in or
toe-out between the wheels. From what I've read, this is where the Jenny style
wood gear has a slight advantage in that it can not have any toe-in or toe-out
unless the axle has taken a severe impact and it's bent. However, in this
case something else in your airplane is probably bent or broken too, rendering
the toe-in or toe-out as something of secondary importance at that point...
--------
Billy McCaskill
Urbana, IL
tail section almost done, starting on ribs soon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312692#312692
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wing education, please advise.. |
| From: | "Pieti Lowell" <Lowellcfrank(at)yahoo.com> |
I have used a product that the sailors have used for years to give excellent adhesion
and sealing qualities, and ease of application, called Rip Stop, 2" wide
applied from below with elevator up.
Riblett full length wings will be a surprise to me, if the next wing flown does
not impress it's new owner.
Pieti Lowell
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312693#312693
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | lee bottom fly-in |
Hello group, Just checking to see if anyone wants to meet up on friday the
24th and fly down to lee bottom's fly-in.- I will plan on being in southw
estern ohio area (Dayton, Cincinatti) around 12-1 pm friday the 24th.- I
might have a Champ, and Chief in tow.- Matt Vandervort, are you planning
on going down?- I was also wondering if anyone had Steve Emo's contact in
fo (out of New Carlisle).- And can someone on the list reply to this e-ma
il, my computer is not working right, and not sure if mail is going out.
-
-
Shad=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Doug Dever <chiefpepperhead(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing education, please advise.. |
Lowell=2C
I'm suprised you didn't hit me harder. I was in full armor.
I don't know any of you except through this list so I don't hit very hard e
ither. I just think your hp makes more difference (I will be looking you u
p when I get to the Model A stage) than the airfoil. The NACA2412? on the
172 is not a high lift airfoil but=2C you can put a leading edge cuff on i
t and droop the ailerons turning it into a high lift airfoil and I'll just
add 33% more hp and I'll win every time. Now... I always wondered what do
ing both would do. May turn into a cheap fast helicopter!
Not stirring the pot too much.
Doug Dever
In beautiful Stow Ohio
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing education=2C please advise..
> From: Lowellcfrank(at)yahoo.com
> Date: Thu=2C 16 Sep 2010 16:18:45 -0700
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>
com>
>
> I have used a product that the sailors have used for years to give excell
ent adhesion and sealing qualities=2C and ease of application=2C called Rip
Stop=2C 2" wide applied from below with elevator up.
> Riblett full length wings will be a surprise to me=2C if the next wing fl
own does not impress it's new owner.
> Pieti Lowell
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312693#312693
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Pietenpol still making history today? |
| From: | "Peter Bichier" <pbichie(at)UTNet.UToledo.Edu> |
Hello All,
I have posted this a couple of weeks ago, and have not received any comments. The
topic shows as viewed 70 times, is this silence because no one knows? Meanwhile
we are going to claim we are the first ones...
Here is our formal letter to the EAA and below my original question to this group.
From: William J. David [mailto:wjdavid582(at)embarqmail.com]
Sent: Friday, September 10, 2010 10:26 AM
Cc: taildragger@go-concepts.com; Andre Abreu; Peter Bichier; Martha Lunken; Joe
Deaton; Richard Martin
Subject: Ratings
To Whom it may concern,
On the morning of August 14, at Red Stewart Airport in Waynesville, Ohio, Andre
Abreu and Peter Bichier of the Toledo Buzzards Light Sport Aircraft
Club (TBLSACI) successfully completed their check rides for a Sport Pilot
Certificate in a Pietenpol Aircamper N6186L. The evaluations were given by Martha
Lunken and TBLSACI is based out of Toledo Executive Airport, TDZ, formerly
Toledo Metcalf. After a little investigation we believe that they are the first
persons to do so in a Pietenpol and are laying claim to this feat at this
time. Anyone disputing this should contact me with evidence that shows otherwise.
Other points of interest on these two guys are that they have never touched
a starter button, they hand prop. They have never flown anything with a
nose wheel, and they don't even know how to spell GPS let alone use one. Peter
is an Ornithologist and researcher, and Andy Is a mechanical engineer for the
automobile industry.
William J. David
President TBLSACI
20526 Caris Road
Bowling Green, Ohio 43402
419-494-5843
wjdavid582(at)embarqmail.com
Thu Sep 02, 2010 8:33 am Post subject: Flying on Labor Day?
Gents, Ladies?
I guess I'll join the old? or new! tradition to fly the Piet on Labor Day. Good
to read some of the postings! I'm new, but 'me gusta volar el Pietenpol' (that's
the only Spanish I was able to teach to my great instructor who taught me
how to fly the Piet; "I like to Fly the Piet.")
So SERIOUSLY to the knowledge of this group, have ANY one, in the HISTORY of the
Pietenpol been checked out ie have done their checkride on the Piet to get their
ticket?
I guess Piet himself probably just taught himself how to fly, but any one else?
on a 'formal' flight?
Hope you can share what you know about it or what's your guesses.
We are based in TDZ (Toledo, OH) and we are about a gang of 5 flying the Piet and
for some of us it's the only plane we've ever flown.
I'd love to fly to Foggy Bottom, I just flew to 40I (Red Stewart 215 miles if you
can fly in a straight line) the old fashion way (few hours in my belt flying
it alone, no radios, no GPS, just a sectional) what a blast!
hope to read some more,
Peter Bichier
A blosoming Pietenpol pilot
--------
560 Dreamer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312701#312701
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matthew VanDervort <matthew.vandervort(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: lee bottom fly-in |
Shad,
Wish I was going! But the tcraft is acting up and haven't had time to go
look at it yet :( I will call a buddy of mine tomorow and see if he has ste
ve's number for ya thou. If ya stop in new Carlisle let me know and I'll try
and run down for a minute! I'm about 20 minutes drive from there and 5 fro W
aco field. I'll let ya know tomorrow if I find his info
Sent from my iPhone
On Sep 16, 2010, at 8:18 PM, shad bell wrote:
> Hello group, Just checking to see if anyone wants to meet up on friday the
24th and fly down to lee bottom's fly-in. I will plan on being in southwes
tern ohio area (Dayton, Cincinatti) around 12-1 pm friday the 24th. I might
have a Champ, and Chief in tow. Matt Vandervort, are you planning on going
down? I was also wondering if anyone had Steve Emo's contact info (out of N
ew Carlisle). And can someone on the list reply to this e-mail, my computer
is not working right, and not sure if mail is going out.
>
>
> Shad
>
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TOM MICHELLE BRANT <tmbrant(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | what I've never seen at Brodhead |
In this day and age=2C I'm so thankful there's a place you can go and see c
hildren and adults getting an airplane ride - for free - without signing a
waiver. I've never seen a waiver or liability release statement signed at
Brodhead but I guess that's why the FAA has us put "Experimental" on the en
trance to the airplane isn't it.
Tom B.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: what I've never seen at Brodhead |
| From: | "Pieti Lowell" <Lowellcfrank(at)yahoo.com> |
Tom,
Don't forget that a ( X )Next to the ( N ) number, does then not require the word
EXPERIENTIAL anywhere on the airplane. And you are very much correct,Brodhead
is unique. I have never ever missed a year since 1976, Have met great people.
Pieti Lowell
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312732#312732
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Lee Bottom Fly-In |
| From: | "robisons" <robisons(at)mattoonillinois.org> |
I (with my two sons) will be coming to see and hopefully photograph some Piets
at Lee Bottom. I'm only three hours away (driving). I'm building a GN-1. On
the gear, instruments installed, tail feathers on, seats, floor boards, rudder
pedals etc. all done. Working on cabanes and center section now. All ribs are
done. I'm hoping to be flying by next fall.
Scott Robison (Central Illinois)
--------
SR78
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312734#312734
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Ruse <steve(at)wotelectronics.com> |
| Subject: | 54th Annual Tulsa Fly-In Saturday - anyone going? |
I'll be there around 9AM...departing O44 at first light. Anyone else
going? Jim? Does Chuck Gantzer still read our list? I ran into him
at BVO once.
http://www.tulsaflyin.com/
Steve Ruse
Norman, OK
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 54th Annual Tulsa Fly-In Saturday - anyone going? |
I talked to Chuck and when we talked he was planning on going...as I am....probably
sometime Saturday afternoon.
If I can make it (seems like most plans I make these days get changed!) I'll find
you!
jm
-----Original Message-----
>From: Steve Ruse <steve(at)wotelectronics.com>
>Sent: Sep 17, 2010 7:05 AM
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: 54th Annual Tulsa Fly-In Saturday - anyone going?
>
>
>I'll be there around 9AM...departing O44 at first light. Anyone else
>going? Jim? Does Chuck Gantzer still read our list? I ran into him
>at BVO once.
>
>http://www.tulsaflyin.com/
>
>Steve Ruse
>Norman, OK
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "TOM STINEMETZE" <TOMS(at)mcpcity.com> |
| Subject: | Re: My Piet is Famous |
Gary:
The only thing wrong with that photo is the lack of engine noises. My
grandson helps me with mine.
Tom Stinemetze
N328X
>>> "Gary Boothe" 9/17/2010 9:13 AM >>>
>>>My Pietenpol has joined a very select groupand its not even out of
the hanger yet!
>>>Gary Boothe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
I think I read somewhere that Jack Phillips was going to San Francisco
for
business, or personal. Anyone going to that part of California would
have
about a 4-4 =BD hour drive down to Tulare, where Mike & Vic Groah are
building
their Piet. Vic also restores old (really, really old) cars and has a
very
neat personal show room.
If you treat the Groah=92s nicely and give them lots of compliments on
their
Piet, they most likely will bestow upon you a really cool sticker for
your
back window.
Thanks, Mike & Vic!
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(20 ribs down=85)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: My Piet is Famous |
| From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
You are just lucky that it wouldn't fit in his pocket!
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings and Center Section framed up - Working on Empannage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312767#312767
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 54th Annual Tulsa Fly-In Saturday - anyone going? |
| From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
I'll be there... parking the warbirds after the 11am fly-bys. I'll have my "Warbirds
Flightline" shirt on and will be looking for you guys.
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings and Center Section framed up - Working on Empannage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312769#312769
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ben Charvet <bencharvet(at)gmail.com> |
I'd love one of those stickers...
Ben
On 9/17/2010 11:49 AM, Gary Boothe wrote:
>
> I think I read somewhere that Jack Phillips was going to San Francisco
> for business, or personal. Anyone going to that part of California
> would have about a 4-4 hour drive down to Tulare, where Mike & Vic
> Groah are building their Piet. Vic also restores old (really, really
> old) cars and has a very neat personal show room.
>
> If you treat the Groah's nicely and give them lots of compliments on
> their Piet, they most likely will bestow upon you a really cool
> sticker for your back window.
>
> Thanks, Mike & Vic!
>
> Gary Boothe
> Cool, Ca.
> Pietenpol
> WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
> Tail done, Fuselage on gear
> (20 ribs down...)
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | AMsafetyC(at)aol.com |
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________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: My Piet is Famous |
| From: | gboothe5(at)comcast.net |
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Pieti Lowell" <Lowellcfrank(at)yahoo.com> |
I think every one that has a Pietenpol should have a sticker like that,on their
wind screen.
Pieti Lowell
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312805#312805
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gboothe5(at)comcast.net |
VW5mb3J0dW5hdGVseSwgSSdsbCBiZSBhdCBDb3J2YWlyIENvbGxlZ2UgIzE4IHRoYXQgd2Vla2Vu
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gboothe5(at)comcast.net |
VW5mb3J0dW5hdGVseSwgSSdsbCBiZSBhdCBDb3J2YWlyIENvbGxlZ2UgIzE4IHRoYXQgd2Vla2Vu
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
I=92ll be in San Francisco the last week of October. Unfortunately,
I=92ll be
in training all week with no ground transportation so I won=92t be able
to
leave Moffet Field. How do I get one of those stickers?
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary
Boothe
Sent: Friday, September 17, 2010 11:49 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Sticker
I think I read somewhere that Jack Phillips was going to San Francisco
for
business, or personal. Anyone going to that part of California would
have
about a 4-4 =BD hour drive down to Tulare, where Mike & Vic Groah are
building
their Piet. Vic also restores old (really, really old) cars and has a
very
neat personal show room.
If you treat the Groah=92s nicely and give them lots of compliments on
their
Piet, they most likely will bestow upon you a really cool sticker for
your
back window.
Thanks, Mike & Vic!
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(20 ribs down=85)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Skip Gadd" <skipgadd(at)earthlink.net> |
Tom, Not sure about the angle, my split axle has springs and they are adjustable
so I can make that decision later. I am sure that you do not want any toe-in.
Exactly straight is best, err on the side of toe-out.
Skip
----- Original Message -----
From: TOM STINEMETZE
Sent: 9/16/2010 5:09:01 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Axle Angle
Question concerning axle alignment on a split axle gear. (Not a split Axel which
is a different situation altogether.)
The plans for the split axle gear show the use of aircraft style balloon tires.
Those plans indicate the axles should be set with a 2 angle from vertical when
the bungees are fully extended. I am using 19" motorcycle tires and die springs
instead of the balloons and bungees. Is the 2 angle still appropriate?
Is any toe-in or toe-out desirable? I'm almost ready to weld these up so any
useful information would be very welcome.
Tom Stinemetze
N328X
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Got an engine! |
| From: | "Kringle" <Mrkringles(at)msn.com> |
I received my crankshaft back today from Moldex and picked up my case from a local
transmission shop after cleaning. Things are looking better!
--------
John
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312815#312815
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/clean_case_649.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/finished_crank_826.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Got an engine! |
| From: | "skellytown flyer" <skellflyer1(at)yahoo.com> |
has anyone tried the half acetone half auto trans fluid home brew on those rusty
cylinders yet? it supposedly is as good or better than the penetrating oils.
I never mixed the stuff up but it wouldn't cost a whole lot to have quite a bit
of fluid to fill some cylinders.might be a place for it to be tried.Raymond
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312816#312816
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mike Hardaway <bkemike(at)gmail.com> |
Jack,
Moffet's about 40 miles from SF. I pass by Vic Groah's place a couple of
times a week. I can stop in and snag a couple of stickers if any are
available (Mike, Vic?).
Tell me where you're staying while at Moffet and we can meet for dinner and
a sticker hand-off.
Mike Hardaway
On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 6:00 PM, Jack Phillips wrot
e:
> I=92ll be in San Francisco the last week of October. Unfortunately, I
=92ll
> be in training all week with no ground transportation so I won=92t be abl
e to
> leave Moffet Field. How do I get one of those stickers?
>
>
> Jack Phillips
>
> NX899JP
>
> Raleigh, NC
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Gary Boothe
> *Sent:* Friday, September 17, 2010 11:49 AM
>
> *To:* pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: Sticker
>
>
September 03, 2010 - September 18, 2010
Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-jp