Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-jw
December 14, 2010 - December 21, 2010
As with your construction those are decisions we all make out of comfort,
reliability, experience or paranoia, same as the ones you will be making
also. Its not a bad idea to ask for advice and when confusion sets in from
opinions you receive, well than you can always consult Tony and see what he's
written about the subject then choose the answer you want or like best. In
the final analysis we all select the answer we like the best.
Its just human nature!
John
In a message dated 12/13/2010 9:32:40 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
kklaus1(at)austin.rr.com writes:
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Kelly Klaus"
Hey gang,
I don't post anything here much, but I do get the updates from the forums.
I am about 85% complete on my Corvair engine rebuild and have ordered the
Fuse, plywood, and tail /rudder kits from ACS to get me started.
My question is are nails and/or brads used in the construction?
--------
Kelly Klaus
do not archive.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=323240#323240
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | AMsafetyC(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | 8 hours and counting down buildapalooza motivational speach |
and or rant
For all the builders, would be builders, over thinkers and tinkers. Its
time to get out the prints, get out the tools get out the saw the epoxy the
mixing cups and start making saw dust. This is the official opening of
Buildapalooza 2010.
Make sure you got plenty of Band-Aids, steri-strips, butterfly's, peroxide
and antiseptic cream, there is no time for doctor visits its self
administered sutures for self inflicted injuries. a little blood make the piet
fly
better and cements the blood bond between the builder and the built. So now
its time to get off the duff, couch and or other reclining chair and lets
get building, Brodhead will be here soon and without suitable
transportation, an airplane, in an inferior model that will suit our purpose,
its a long
walk from anywhere. So lets get building! there is little time to build and
no time to waste as the grass underground is just waiting to spring up and
shut down the build season quickly. So lets get hoppin do some wood and
material shoppin and start buildin, carvin, gluin, screwin, wrenchin, bendin,
sandin ,paintin, riggin, weldin, beatin, poundin, fittin and stitchin.
Spring and the yard are just around the corner waiting to pounce and
strangle the life out of Buildapalooza.
I have yet to see a donkey build an airplane so get off your ass and get
workin!
Lets build great airplanes
John
Do no archive. less ya wanna
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Clif Dawson" <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Soon will be building |
Have you made test joints and then broken them in
various ways especialy in shear? I did. You should
too if you haven't already. It IS recomended procedure.
AND rather educational too!
Also what does both West and System Three (T-88)
have to say about bonding wood?
http://www.systemthree.com/reslibrary/tds/T-88_TDS.pdf
Third line, column two, under "product application".
Now, West might be different as it is reportedly thinner
but most likely not much.
Clif
"What gets us into trouble is not what we don't know, it's what we know
for sure
that just ain't so." - Mark Twain
I used West System epoxy, close fitting joints and clamps along with
brads and staples shot from a pneumatic gun. I wanted to be well assured
that the pins would help my clamps and joints stay tight and strong.
Its not a bad idea to ask for advice and when confusion sets in from
opinions you receive, well than you can always consult Tony and see what
he's written about the subject then choose the answer you want or like
best. In the final analysis we all select the answer we like the best.
Its just human nature!
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | 2010 List of Contributors |
Dear Listers,
The 2010 Matronics Email List and Forum Fund Raiser officially ended a couple of
weeks ago and its time that I publish this year's List of Contributors. Its
the people on this list that directly make the Email Lists and Forums possible.
Their generous contributions keep the servers and Internet connection up and
running.
You can still show your support this year and pick up a great gift at the same
time. The Contribution Web Site is fast, easy, and secure:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or, by dropping a personal check in the mail to:
Matt Dralle / Matronics
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
I also want to thank Bob, Jon, and Andy for their generous support through the
supply of great gifts this year!! These guys have some great products and I encourage
you to visit their respective web sites:
Bob Nucklolls - AeroElectric - www.aeroelectric.com
Jon Croke - HomebuiltHELP - www.homebuilthelp.com
Andy Gold - The Builder's Bookstore - www.buildersbooks.com
And finally, I'm proud to present The 2010 Fund Raiser List of Contributors:
http://www.matronics.com/loc/2010.html
Thanks again to everyone that made a Contribution this year!!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List and Forum Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | AMsafetyC(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Soon will be building the scoop on the glue |
Torsion and shear forces were applied along with blunt trauma hammering,
not as test but necessity in parts that needed to be done over. Each
separation was no easy task and required significant amounts of force to
fracture
which left the adhesive and joint in tact and fracturing the wood with one
side having wood and adhesive and the other missing chunks of wood grain
all
across the joint surface. Tests if that's what you care to call them on
structural material end to side, end to end and plywood to long grain
surfaces all had the same result a real female dog to break and all with
the same
residual result: chunks, splinters, delaminations and epoxy intact in
clamped and unclamped applications and not bad on fingers, body parts, me
tal and
clothing. It does reinforce the idea of using plastic under the glue join
t
as to no bond the project parts to the varnished bench top surface, yes
it
even hold strong to varnished/ polyurethaned bench top surfaces. To
disassemble the adhesive bond at the joint requires a fine bladed saw and
careful
strokes if you're interested on salvaging any part of the joint for a re
application.
I cant say that the flour and water, Elmers glue all, krazy glue or other
popular brands were as good as the West System epoxy which is designed
specifically for marine applications recommended for boats made of wood an
d
fiberglass among other materials.
The good news with lapages white glue, flour and water and wheat wall pape
r
glues is they are edible to a certain degree, where as West Systems epoxy
is not recommended or conducive to good gastronomical health and function
a
real binder insoluble in water, solvents and gastric acids.
John
In a message dated 12/14/2010 2:42:51 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca writes:
Have you made test joints and then broken them in
various ways especialy in shear? I did. You should
too if you haven't already. It IS recomended procedure.
AND rather educational too!
Also what does both West and System Three (T-88)
have to say about bonding wood?
_http://www.systemthree.com/reslibrary/tds/T-88_TDS.pdf_
(http://www.systemthree.com/reslibrary/tds/T-88_TDS.pdf)
Third line, column two, under "product application".
Now, West might be different as it is reportedly thinner
but most likely not much.
Clif
=9CWhat gets us into trouble is not what we don=99t know, it
=99s what we know
for sure
that just ain=99t so.=9D - Mark Twain
I used West System epoxy, close fitting joints and clamps along with brad
s
and staples shot from a pneumatic gun. I wanted to be well assured that
the pins would help my clamps and joints stay tight and strong.
Its not a bad idea to ask for advice and when confusion sets in from
opinions you receive, well than you can always consult Tony and see what
he's
written about the subject then choose the answer you want or like best.
In
the final analysis we all select the answer we like the best.
Its just human nature!
John
========================
============
(http://www.aeroelectric.com/)
(http://www.buildersbooks.com/)
(http://www.homebuilthelp.com/)
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
========================
============
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List)
========================
============
========================
============
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
I am having a Buildapalooza of my own like John. I am taking 3 weeks off of
work, my last day is this Friday the 17th. My goal is to have the landing
gear finished and installed by my return to work Jan. 10th. Gearing up for
the event, I have spent the last few weeks designing and fabricating my tai
l wheel assembly and main wheel hubs.-The tail wheel assembly is-99% fi
nished and the hubs are complete. Now I can move on to setting up my deck a
ngle and figuring out the main gear.-
-Buchanan's-is working on sending me my rims, spokes and nipples. The a
xle, brakes and 4130 are here in the shop-with the sitka spruce-on it's
way.
-
Arrow Fest will also include a small re-work of www.karetakeraero.com with
added pictures and write-ups along with HINT Video #7, Center Section. (In
work now.)
-
I love the Winter and I always look forward to getting a lot of focused wor
k accomplished.
-
John, please post your Buildapalooza progress...it will keep Arrow Fest on
track and moving!
-
-
Michael Perez
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Teledyne-Continental Bought by Chinese Interest |
| From: | Don Rucker <donrucker.ctg(at)gmail.com> |
FYI:
Teledyne-Continental Bought by Chinese Interest.
Don
--
This electronic transmission and any attached documents or other writings
are confidential and are for the sole use of the intended recipient(s)
identified above. This message may contain information that is privileged,
confidential or otherwise protected from disclosure under applicable law. If
the receiver of this information is not the intended recipient, or the
employee, or agent responsible for delivering the information to the
intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, reading,
dissemination, distribution, copying or storage of this information is
strictly prohibited. If you have received this information in error, please
notify the sender by return email and delete this electronic transmission,
including all attachments from your system.
* *
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
I've finally gotten around to downloading the pictures that I took at Old Kingsbury.
Here are the ones of their Sky Scout, which does not look to be airworthy
to me.
--------
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
Air Camper NX41CC
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=323364#323364
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1010012_214.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1010011_226.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1010006_203.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 8 hours and counting down buildapalooza motivational |
speach and or rant
I guess I re-started on my project at just about the right time - the
official starting time of Buildapalooza 2010. Incidentally, why is that
not Bap 2011? My calendar says that I will soon be into 2011 and if I
even hope to make it to Brodhead 2011 I gotta get my butt in gear. I
hope to have the Piet assembled in the non-covered stage by the end of
January. Then I can start covering and maybe get started on building
the Corvair in February. Maybe test fly the end of March. That will
give me April, May, June, and part of July to fly off the 40 hours.
That comes out to about 110 days -- or 0.37 hours per day. That means a
bunch of days I will really have a sore butt -- cause I can't fly every
day! If I don't make it I'll see you guys in 2012.
----- Original Message -----
From: AMsafetyC(at)aol.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2010 12:58 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: 8 hours and counting down buildapalooza
motivational speach and or rant
For all the builders, would be builders, over thinkers and tinkers.
Its time to get out the prints, get out the tools get out the saw the
epoxy the mixing cups and start making saw dust. This is the official
opening of Buildapalooza 2010.
Make sure you got plenty of Band-Aids, steri-strips, butterfly's,
peroxide and antiseptic cream, there is no time for doctor visits its
self administered sutures for self inflicted injuries. a little blood
make the piet fly better and cements the blood bond between the builder
and the built. So now its time to get off the duff, couch and or other
reclining chair and lets get building, Brodhead will be here soon and
without suitable transportation, an airplane, in an inferior model that
will suit our purpose, its a long walk from anywhere. So lets get
building! there is little time to build and no time to waste as the
grass underground is just waiting to spring up and shut down the build
season quickly. So lets get hoppin do some wood and material shoppin and
start buildin, carvin, gluin, screwin, wrenchin, bendin, sandin
,paintin, riggin, weldin, beatin, poundin, fittin and stitchin.
Spring and the yard are just around the corner waiting to pounce and
strangle the life out of Buildapalooza.
I have yet to see a donkey build an airplane so get off your ass and
get workin!
Lets build great airplanes
John
Do no archive. less ya wanna
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Sky Scout pix |
| From: | "AlRice" <Allen(at)allenrice.net> |
The Kingsbury Scout might have been the model for this RC model.
http://www.stevensaero.com/StevensAero-Pietenpol-Sky-Scout-400-Laser-Cut-Scale-Electric-Park-Flyer-p-20490.html
It's a cutey.
--------
Al Rice
Skybolt 260
RV-9A
Helping with my grandson's Piet
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=323390#323390
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/scoutmodel_323.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Clif Dawson" <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Soon will be building the scoop on the glue |
Good! That's what I wanted to hear.
Clif
From: AMsafetyC(at)aol.com
Torsion and shear forces were applied along with blunt trauma
hammering, not as test but necessity in parts that needed to be done
over. Each separation was no easy task and required significant amounts
of force to fracture which left the adhesive and joint in tact and
fracturing the wood with one side having wood and adhesive and the other
missing chunks of wood grain all across the joint surface. Tests if
that's what you care to call them on structural material end to side,
end to end and plywood to long grain surfaces all had the same result a
real female dog to break
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Clif Dawson" <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> |
Your nipples! Good God!
Clif
Buchanan's is working on sending me my rims, spokes and
nipples.
Michael Perez
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ray Krause" <raykrause(at)frontiernet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Sky Scout pix |
Oscar,
Thanks for the pictures of the Sky Scout. Since I am building one, very
slowly, I am quite interested in pictures and all the info available. If
you, or anyone else, has additional information; I would really appreciate
it.
Thanks and fly SAFELY,
Ray Krause
Waiex 51YX, Jabiru 3300 (1197), Sensenich wood prop, AeroCarb (#2 needle
modified), Dynon D-180, Garmin SL 30 NavCom, Garmin 327 transponder, Garmin
Aera 560, nav and strobe lights: 231 hrs. Also building Sky Scout.
----- Original Message -----
From: "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2010 10:22 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Sky Scout pix
>
> I've finally gotten around to downloading the pictures that I took at Old
> Kingsbury. Here are the ones of their Sky Scout, which does not look to
> be airworthy to me.
>
> --------
> Oscar Zuniga
> San Antonio, TX
> Air Camper NX41CC
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=323364#323364
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1010012_214.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1010011_226.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1010006_203.jpg
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | doc's email and plastic resin glue |
First off, does anyone have a good email for Doc Mosher? Been emailing him
and haven't heard back.
Secondly, regarding plastic resin glue, produced by "weldwood" or others.
Resourcinol is not what is commonly referred to as "plastic resin" glue.
Resourcinol is the two part, dark red glue that is a fabulous product and
FAA approved for wood. "Plastic resin" glue is/was produced by many
companies, one of them "Weldwood" and was a powder that one mixed with
water, and it was a milky color I think.
As correctly mentioned earlier, hit is officially considered "obsolete" and
it's use is discouraged due to the reasons mentioned. These reasons didn't
come out of thin air, but from painful experience over time. Yes, some have
had luck with it, but others have not. The stuff has been banned in
Australia for airplane use for the same reasons.
Also as mentioned earlier, I am finishing up a rebuild of the parts that
were build using plastic resin glue because of glue joint failures, and
these were done in the early nineties. None of this makes me an expert, but
I have understandably done a little research into the issue. One thing I
can say is that nobody agrees exactly what the problem was with the joints
in my project. The builder who started it used the plastic resin (I used
T-88 on everything I built) and his woodworking skills were beyond question,
however some of the glue joints were bad. Whether this was because of
improper mixing, mixing in the wrong temperature, heat the moisture
degrading the joint or what, nobody who inspected my plane can agree. But
really. WHO CARES!!! WHY USE IT??!!
My $.02 worth on this subject (for what it's worth) is why on earth not just
use one of the great adhesives available that are not in contention? If
there are so many doubts, and even bans on a product, and there are other
proven options, why even risk the possibility that you'll have a plane full
of bad joints like mine was??
Sorry if I ranted.
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: doc's email and plastic resin glue |
| From: | "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com> |
Couldn't agree more Douwe. I've never had any problems with T-88. The West system
is good stuff too.
Sometimes the turbulence gets a little rough and I'm glad I made sample glue joints
and tested them and feel confident in them.
Don Emch
NX899DE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=323416#323416
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> |
| Subject: | Re: doc's email and plastic resin glue |
I quote from Aircraft Spruce catologue -- "Weldwood Plastic Resin glue
is water-resistant and is FAA approved for use in certified aircraft and
has been used for many years in a wide range of aircraft applications.
Conforms to Federal Spec. MMM-A-188b, Type ll...It is unaffected by
gasoline and solvents....Excellent for use on wood structures." If my
airplane falls apart in midair, I will call Aircraft Spruce and tell
them they don't know what they are talking about.
----- Original Message -----
From: Douwe Blumberg
To: pietenpolgroup
Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2010 8:30 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: doc's email and plastic resin glue
First off, does anyone have a good email for Doc Mosher? Been
emailing him and haven't heard back.
Secondly, regarding plastic resin glue, produced by "weldwood" or
others. Resourcinol is not what is commonly referred to as "plastic
resin" glue. Resourcinol is the two part, dark red glue that is a
fabulous product and FAA approved for wood. "Plastic resin" glue is/was
produced by many companies, one of them "Weldwood" and was a powder that
one mixed with water, and it was a milky color I think.
As correctly mentioned earlier, hit is officially considered
"obsolete" and it's use is discouraged due to the reasons mentioned.
These reasons didn't come out of thin air, but from painful experience
over time. Yes, some have had luck with it, but others have not. The
stuff has been banned in Australia for airplane use for the same
reasons.
Also as mentioned earlier, I am finishing up a rebuild of the parts
that were build using plastic resin glue because of glue joint failures,
and these were done in the early nineties. None of this makes me an
expert, but I have understandably done a little research into the issue.
One thing I can say is that nobody agrees exactly what the problem was
with the joints in my project. The builder who started it used the
plastic resin (I used T-88 on everything I built) and his woodworking
skills were beyond question, however some of the glue joints were bad.
Whether this was because of improper mixing, mixing in the wrong
temperature, heat the moisture degrading the joint or what, nobody who
inspected my plane can agree. But really. WHO CARES!!! WHY USE IT??!!
My $.02 worth on this subject (for what it's worth) is why on earth
not just use one of the great adhesives available that are not in
contention? If there are so many doubts, and even bans on a product,
and there are other proven options, why even risk the possibility that
you'll have a plane full of bad joints like mine was??
Sorry if I ranted.
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gene Rambo <generambo(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | doc's email and plastic resin glue |
Well=2C because if it is mixed and used properly=2C the plastic resin glue
is perfectly fine and has worked well for 100 years. I have never had any
problems with it. To each his own . . .
Gene
From: douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net
Subject: Pietenpol-List: doc's email and plastic resin glue
Date: Wed=2C 15 Dec 2010 08:30:09 -0500
First off=2C does anyone have a good email for Doc Mosher? Been emailing h
im and haven=92t heard back.
Secondly=2C regarding plastic resin glue=2C produced by =93weldwood=94 or o
thers. Resourcinol is not what is commonly referred to as =93plastic resin
=94 glue. Resourcinol is the two part=2C dark red glue that is a fabulous
product and FAA approved for wood. =93Plastic resin=94 glue is/was produce
d by many companies=2C one of them =93Weldwood=94 and was a powder that one
mixed with water=2C and it was a milky color I think.
As correctly mentioned earlier=2C hit is officially considered =93obsolete
=94 and it=92s use is discouraged due to the reasons mentioned. These reas
ons didn=92t come out of thin air=2C but from painful experience over time.
Yes=2C some have had luck with it=2C but others have not. The stuff has
been banned in Australia for airplane use for the same reasons.
Also as mentioned earlier=2C I am finishing up a rebuild of the parts that
were build using plastic resin glue because of glue joint failures=2C and t
hese were done in the early nineties. None of this makes me an expert=2C b
ut I have understandably done a little research into the issue. One thing
I can say is that nobody agrees exactly what the problem was with the joint
s in my project. The builder who started it used the plastic resin (I used
T-88 on everything I built) and his woodworking skills were beyond questio
n=2C however some of the glue joints were bad. Whether this was because of
improper mixing=2C mixing in the wrong temperature=2C heat the moisture de
grading the joint or what=2C nobody who inspected my plane can agree. But
really=85 WHO CARES!!! WHY USE IT??!!
My $.02 worth on this subject (for what it=92s worth) is why on earth not j
ust use one of the great adhesives available that are not in contention? I
f there are so many doubts=2C and even bans on a product=2C and there are o
ther proven options=2C why even risk the possibility that you=92ll have a p
lane full of bad joints like mine was??
Sorry if I ranted=85
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bentoncountycable.net> |
| Subject: | Re: doc's email and plastic resin glue |
Douwe, Just wanted to let you know (for whatever it's worth to you)
that I'm really proud of you for "hitching up you pants" and going
forward with your rebuild. I know it wasn't easy to start again, but
it's amazing what mountain you can climb when you've got the balls to
keep going.
Gene In beautiful Tennessee
Past caretaker of N502R
From: Douwe Blumberg
Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2010 7:30 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: doc's email and plastic resin glue
First off, does anyone have a good email for Doc Mosher? Been emailing
him and haven't heard back.
Secondly, regarding plastic resin glue, produced by "weldwood" or
others. Resourcinol is not what is commonly referred to as "plastic
resin" glue. Resourcinol is the two part, dark red glue that is a
fabulous product and FAA approved for wood. "Plastic resin" glue is/was
produced by many companies, one of them "Weldwood" and was a powder that
one mixed with water, and it was a milky color I think.
As correctly mentioned earlier, hit is officially considered "obsolete"
and it's use is discouraged due to the reasons mentioned. These reasons
didn't come out of thin air, but from painful experience over time.
Yes, some have had luck with it, but others have not. The stuff has
been banned in Australia for airplane use for the same reasons.
Also as mentioned earlier, I am finishing up a rebuild of the parts that
were build using plastic resin glue because of glue joint failures, and
these were done in the early nineties. None of this makes me an expert,
but I have understandably done a little research into the issue. One
thing I can say is that nobody agrees exactly what the problem was with
the joints in my project. The builder who started it used the plastic
resin (I used T-88 on everything I built) and his woodworking skills
were beyond question, however some of the glue joints were bad. Whether
this was because of improper mixing, mixing in the wrong temperature,
heat the moisture degrading the joint or what, nobody who inspected my
plane can agree. But really. WHO CARES!!! WHY USE IT??!!
My $.02 worth on this subject (for what it's worth) is why on earth not
just use one of the great adhesives available that are not in
contention? If there are so many doubts, and even bans on a product,
and there are other proven options, why even risk the possibility that
you'll have a plane full of bad joints like mine was??
Sorry if I ranted.
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "bender" <jfaith(at)solairusaviation.com> |
So i'm one and a half months in....i sure hope i can keep the pace
I need metal so i can start on the brackets for the gear legs..but i'm excited
to be able to sit in it and make engine noises
my wife jumped in the front seat and says it's way more room than she expected
Hey Dan.... i loved you seat so much i made my own..
jeff
ribs done
wheels on order
engine stripped ready to ship out [Wink]
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=323428#323428
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dash_188.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/piet1_508.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/piet4_469.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/piet5_239.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Silvius" <silvius(at)gwi.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Weldwood adhesives |
FWIW
a clarification....
Weldwood is a product line name of DAP.. yes the same folks that make the
window glazing and bathroom caulking found at Home Depot.
The Weldwood product line represents a line of adhesives mainly for the
retail market.
http://www.dap.com/product_categories.aspx
Among others, the ones having aviation applications are / were.
Weldwood Plastic Resin: (banned by the Australians)
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/wppages/weldwood.php
Weldwood Resorcinol
http://www.dap.com/product_details.aspx?product_id=43
DAP HAS CEASED PRODUCTION OF WELDWOOD RESORCINOL
something about VOCs and saving the planet.....
Cascophen is the last available source of resorcinol glue in the US
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/wppages/cascophen.php
Michael in Maine
----- Original Message -----
>
> Kip you are confusing Weldwood Resorcinol, which is the only glue approved
> by the FAA for repairing aircraft woodwork, and weldwood's plastic resin
> glue, which as described below, simply does not hold up to years of
> operation in humidity. Weldwood is a brand name, and they are the only
> company I know of that still makes Resorcinol glue. Personally, I like
> resorcinol. I used it on my Pietenpol and would do so again if I built
> another one.
>
> Jack Phillips
> NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
> Raleigh, NC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dick N" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Sky Scout pix |
Oscar
Thanks for the pics of the Sky Scout. I am also building one. Ray, we will
have to chat in the future about this one.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ray Krause" <raykrause(at)frontiernet.net>
Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2010 10:00 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Sky Scout pix
>
>
> Oscar,
>
> Thanks for the pictures of the Sky Scout. Since I am building one, very
> slowly, I am quite interested in pictures and all the info available. If
> you, or anyone else, has additional information; I would really appreciate
> it.
>
> Thanks and fly SAFELY,
>
> Ray Krause
>
> Waiex 51YX, Jabiru 3300 (1197), Sensenich wood prop, AeroCarb (#2 needle
> modified), Dynon D-180, Garmin SL 30 NavCom, Garmin 327 transponder,
> Garmin Aera 560, nav and strobe lights: 231 hrs. Also building Sky
> Scout.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
> To:
> Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2010 10:22 AM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Sky Scout pix
>
>
>>
>> I've finally gotten around to downloading the pictures that I took at Old
>> Kingsbury. Here are the ones of their Sky Scout, which does not look to
>> be airworthy to me.
>>
>> --------
>> Oscar Zuniga
>> San Antonio, TX
>> Air Camper NX41CC
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=323364#323364
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Attachments:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1010012_214.jpg
>> http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1010011_226.jpg
>> http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1010006_203.jpg
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> |
Pictures, pictures, pictures -- we (members who are in the building process)
need all the pics we can get. If you don't have one, buy one of the
cheapest digital cameras you can find and take lots and lots of pictures.
Don't forget to attach them to E-mails. My Pietenpol folder is not nearly
full.
Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: "bender" <jfaith(at)solairusaviation.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2010 10:34 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: progress
>
>
> So i'm one and a half months in....i sure hope i can keep the pace
> I need metal so i can start on the brackets for the gear legs..but i'm
> excited to be able to sit in it and make engine noises
> my wife jumped in the front seat and says it's way more room than she
> expected
> Hey Dan.... i loved you seat so much i made my own..
>
>
> jeff
>
> ribs done
> wheels on order
> engine stripped ready to ship out [Wink]
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=323428#323428
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/dash_188.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/piet1_508.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/piet4_469.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/piet5_239.jpg
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
Charles, if you noticed, Jeff DID include pictures as attachments in the
bottom of the email. And the last one has a beautiful young lady sitting in
the front seat.
By the way, nice looking work, Jeff. And I'm impressed that anyone who
builds Pietenpols could attract such a nice young lady.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Raleigh, NC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charles
Campbell
Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2010 10:55 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: progress
Pictures, pictures, pictures -- we (members who are in the building process)
need all the pics we can get. If you don't have one, buy one of the
cheapest digital cameras you can find and take lots and lots of pictures.
Don't forget to attach them to E-mails. My Pietenpol folder is not nearly
full.
Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: "bender" <jfaith(at)solairusaviation.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2010 10:34 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: progress
>
>
> So i'm one and a half months in....i sure hope i can keep the pace
> I need metal so i can start on the brackets for the gear legs..but i'm
> excited to be able to sit in it and make engine noises
> my wife jumped in the front seat and says it's way more room than she
> expected
> Hey Dan.... i loved you seat so much i made my own..
>
>
> jeff
>
> ribs done
> wheels on order
> engine stripped ready to ship out [Wink]
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=323428#323428
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/dash_188.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/piet1_508.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/piet4_469.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/piet5_239.jpg
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "bender" <jfaith(at)solairusaviation.com> |
i'm sure she'll appreciate the compliments... that's my wife of almost 15 years..
she's 5' 10 and i was a bit worried about her fitting so i've been kinda warning
her about it being small...i'm actually building with the F&G manual....
she says she feels like is has more room than my 120 did because we're not shoulder
to shoulder..
Jeff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=323442#323442
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/piet6_205.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com> |
Jeff, looks nice!, Are you an A&P?- Jusk asking because I noticed the Lec
tro Tug, and Citation in the background, and that looks like one nice hango
r to build a Piet in.
-
Shad in snow'n, blow'n Ohio
--- On Wed, 12/15/10, bender wrote:
From: bender <jfaith(at)solairusaviation.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: progress
Date: Wednesday, December 15, 2010, 12:03 PM
>
i'm sure she'll appreciate the compliments... that's my wife of almost 15 y
ears.. she's 5' 10 and i was a bit worried about her fitting so i've been k
inda warning her about it being small...i'm actually building with the F&G
manual....
she says she feels like is has more room than my 120 did because we're not
shoulder to shoulder..
Jeff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=323442#323442
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/piet6_205.jpg
le, List Admin.
=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | looking for Fairchild N81288 (off-topic) |
Thanks to all who responded=2C especially Hans in Waller=2C TX... where Mal
colm owns a hangar (or his estate does).
Now on to the next bit of the trail: the Fairchild may be=2C or have been
=2C in Lakeland Florida. It is very obviously no longer in Malcolm's hanga
r in Waller=2C Texas. If anyone in the Lakeland area knows of a Fairchild
or someone who is into old airplanes who might be aware of it=2C I'd apprec
iate any help... off-list=2C please.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
San Antonio=2C TX
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack" <jack(at)textors.com> |
| Subject: | Piet List Directory |
Jeff, I noticed you are not listed in our directory, if you (or anyone else)
would like to submit your info please complete the attached Excel file and
return to me. I will then send you the updated list which has 74 listings.
BTW nice progress, hangar and passenger!
Thanks,
Jack
Jack Textor
29 SW 58th Drive
Des Moines, IA 50312
www.textors.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | helspersew(at)aol.com |
Jeff,
Very nice looking seat indeed! And the instrument panel inlay I like
too! I am impressed by your speed of construction. Brodhead 2011? :O)
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
-----Original Message-----
From: bender <jfaith(at)solairusaviation.com>
Sent: Wed, Dec 15, 2010 9:38 am
Subject: Pietenpol-List: progress
So i'm one and a half months in....i sure hope i can keep the pace
I need metal so i can start on the brackets for the gear legs..but i'm
excited
to be able to sit in it and make engine noises
my wife jumped in the front seat and says it's way more room than she
expected
Hey Dan.... i loved you seat so much i made my own..
jeff
ribs done
wheels on order
engine stripped ready to ship out [Wink]
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=323428#323428
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dash_188.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/piet1_508.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/piet4_469.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/piet5_239.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | TIG inverter welder? |
| From: | Ken Chambers <ken.riffic(at)gmail.com> |
Anyone have any experience with these? The welder below gets great reviews
on Amazon.
And it looks like it can handle typical Pietenpol thicknesses.
Amazingly cheap too.
Forney 00390 AT-100 ARC-TIG Inverter Welder
Ken, who's got to start welding soon.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "bender" <jfaith(at)solairusaviation.com> |
Why yes i am Shad...i've been in the corporate aviation world since 88..
citations, hawkers, lear and challengers most of my career .... i work on little
planes for friends..annuals and such, but only for a few that i know and trust...
thanks for the inspiration on the seat Dan.. i dig it..
and Cliff on the dash shape.. i'm not sure i would have thought of the little curve
on the bottom of the panel.. but it really fits the time period i think
jeff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=323455#323455
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Barry Davis" <bed(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Piet List Directory |
Jack
Is this list on the web somewhere? I was wondering if all the Big Piet guys
submitted their info
Barry
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack
Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2010 1:25 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet List Directory
Jeff, I noticed you are not listed in our directory, if you (or anyone else)
would like to submit your info please complete the attached Excel file and
return to me. I will then send you the updated list which has 74 listings.
BTW nice progress, hangar and passenger!
Thanks,
Jack
<<...>>
Jack Textor
29 SW 58th Drive
Des Moines, IA 50312
www.textors.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: TIG inverter welder? |
| From: | Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
Wow, $120 for a TIG Inverter? Hard to believe. 85 Amps is enough for all the
welds on a Piet. Either its a heck of a deal or a sick joke.
rick
On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 12:27 PM, Ken Chambers wrote:
>
>
> Anyone have any experience with these? The welder below gets great reviews
> on Amazon.
>
> And it looks like it can handle typical Pietenpol thicknesses.
>
> Amazingly cheap too.
>
>
> Forney 00390 AT-100 ARC-TIG Inverter Welder
>
>
> Ken, who's got to start welding soon.
>
> *
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Piet List Directory |
Here you go!
--
---
Jeffrey H. Boatright, Ph.D.
Associate Professor of Ophthalmology
Emory University School of Medicine
Editor-in-Chief
Molecular Vision
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> |
| Subject: | Re: TIG inverter welder? |
I need to start. Where can I find info on the welder mentioned? chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: Ken Chambers
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2010 2:27 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: TIG inverter welder?
Anyone have any experience with these? The welder below gets great
reviews on Amazon.
And it looks like it can handle typical Pietenpol thicknesses.
Amazingly cheap too.
Forney 00390 AT-100 ARC-TIG Inverter Welder
Ken, who's got to start welding soon.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: TIG inverter welder? |
| From: | Ken Chambers <ken.riffic(at)gmail.com> |
Go to amazon and search for tig welders. It's a start.
Question for experienced welders: Is TIG harder to learn than MIG? I hear it
takes a lot more precision.
On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 1:27 PM, Ken Chambers wrote:
>
>
> Anyone have any experience with these? The welder below gets great reviews
> on Amazon.
>
> And it looks like it can handle typical Pietenpol thicknesses.
>
> Amazingly cheap too.
>
>
> Forney 00390 AT-100 ARC-TIG Inverter Welder
>
>
> Ken, who's got to start welding soon.
>
> *
>
>
--
Ken Chambers
512-796-1798
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ryan M <aircamperace(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: TIG inverter welder? |
Looks like they want another $224 for the torch.
________________________________
From: Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Wed, December 15, 2010 2:42:00 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: TIG inverter welder?
Wow, $120 for a TIG Inverter? Hard to believe. 85 Amps is enough for all the
welds on a Piet. Either its a heck of a deal or a sick joke.
rick
On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 12:27 PM, Ken Chambers wrote:
>
>
>Anyone have any experience with these? The welder below gets great reviews on
>Amazon.
>
>
>And it looks like it can handle typical Pietenpol thicknesses.
>
>
>Amazingly cheap too.
>
>
>Forney 00390 AT-100 ARC-TIG Inverter Welder
>
>Ken, who's got to start welding soon.
> _blank">www.aeroelectric.com .com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
>="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution "
>target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>tp://forums.matronics.com
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: TIG inverter welder? |
I don't think it's any harder. A slightly different feel but the process is the
same...make a puddle and chase it around.
Practice is the great equalizer. I would just go to google videos and search for
TIG and there are a LOT of great videos that will help a lot.
Let's be real clear that I'm not answering this as an "experienced welder"....but
I think you'll be surprised at how easy it really is. If you've done any gas
welding or MIG welding, you'll do fine with TIG.
jm
-----Original Message-----
From: Ken Chambers
Sent: Dec 15, 2010 2:16 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: TIG inverter welder?
Go to amazon and search for tig welders. It's a start.
Question for experienced welders: Is TIG harder to learn than MIG? I hear it takes
a lot more precision.
On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 1:27 PM, Ken Chambers wrote:
Anyone have any experience with these? The welder below gets great reviews on Amazon.
And it looks like it can handle typical Pietenpol thicknesses.
Amazingly cheap too.
Forney 00390 AT-100 ARC-TIG Inverter Welder
Ken, who's got to start welding soon.
_blank">www.aeroelectric.com
.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
--
Ken Chambers
512-796-1798
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ryan M <aircamperace(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: TIG inverter welder? |
you'll also have to find a regulator and bottle of argon.
________________________________
From: Ryan M <aircamperace(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Wed, December 15, 2010 5:28:42 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: TIG inverter welder?
Looks like they want another $224 for the torch.
________________________________
From: Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Wed, December 15, 2010 2:42:00 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: TIG inverter welder?
Wow, $120 for a TIG Inverter? Hard to believe. 85 Amps is enough for all the
welds on a Piet. Either its a heck of a deal or a sick joke.
rick
On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 12:27 PM, Ken Chambers wrote:
>
>
>Anyone have any experience with these? The welder below gets great reviews on
>Amazon.
>
>
>And it looks like it can handle typical Pietenpol thicknesses.
>
>
>Amazingly cheap too.
>
>
>Forney 00390 AT-100 ARC-TIG Inverter Welder
>
>Ken, who's got to start welding soon.
> _blank">www.aeroelectric.com .com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
>="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution "
>target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>tp://forums.matronics.com
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Pieti Lowell" <Lowellcfrank(at)yahoo.com> |
Jeff !
Please ask your wife if she would like a ride in my old style Ford driven Pietenpol,
I give rides, even when I help getting the riders in. You must teach her
step up more to clear the cockpit edge.
Pieti Lowell
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=323491#323491
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: doc's email and plastic resin glue |
| From: | "Pieti Lowell" <Lowellcfrank(at)yahoo.com> |
Douwe ,
You have much more than your $ .02 , we can tell by how you have expounded on a
tough problem with a truly excellent solution. and that is my $ .02 worth.
Pieti Lowell
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=323492#323492
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Franklin <jbfjr(at)peoplepc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: TIG inverter welder? |
Ken,
Weekend before last I took the EAA gas welding class here in Houston, so obviously
I'm a novice, but I can repeat some of the instructor's comments about TIG
and oxyacetylene;
1. Oxyacetylene is a dying art, only used by individuals. The commercial world
has already gone to TIG. It is getting more and more difficult to buy welding
tips, rods, etc.
2. A decent TIG rig will cost about $2K. He only recommended Lincoln or Miller.
I think he said Hobart is made by Miller but I'm not sure.
3. If you can weld oxyacetylene, you can weld with TIG.
I'm also fairly certain that William Wynne recommends that first-timers use oxyacetylene
on their homebuilts. If you would like the EAA welding instructor's
email address, I'm sure he wouldn't mind answering any questions you might have.
Contact me offline and I'll get you his email address.
Best regards,
John F.
-----Original Message-----
>From: Ken Chambers <ken.riffic(at)gmail.com>
>Sent: Dec 15, 2010 1:27 PM
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: TIG inverter welder?
>
>Anyone have any experience with these? The welder below gets great reviews
>on Amazon.
>
>And it looks like it can handle typical Pietenpol thicknesses.
>
>Amazingly cheap too.
>
>
>Forney 00390 AT-100 ARC-TIG Inverter Welder
>
>
>Ken, who's got to start welding soon.
________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack" <jack(at)textors.com> |
| Subject: | Piet List Directory |
Barry,
It's not public, just available to those who submit info. Attached is the
latest copy, thanks.
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Barry Davis
Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2010 1:39 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Piet List Directory
Jack
Is this list on the web somewhere? I was wondering if all the Big Piet guys
submitted their info
Barry
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack
Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2010 1:25 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet List Directory
Jeff, I noticed you are not listed in our directory, if you (or anyone else)
would like to submit your info please complete the attached Excel file and
return to me. I will then send you the updated list which has 74 listings.
BTW nice progress, hangar and passenger!
Thanks,
Jack
<<...>>
Jack Textor
29 SW 58th Drive
Des Moines, IA 50312
www.textors.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Clif Dawson" <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> |
Steam-Punk. Just like the rest of the plane. :-)
Clif
> and Cliff on the dash shape.. i'm not sure i would have thought of the
> little curve on the bottom of the panel.. but it really fits the time
> period i think
>
> jeff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "AlRice" <Allen(at)allenrice.net> |
Great looking fuse. Really, I was only looking at the fuse. Can you tell me where
you got the cane seat bottom?
Thanks,
--------
Al Rice
Skybolt 260
RV-9A
Helping with my grandson's Piet
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=323505#323505
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: TIG inverter welder? |
| From: | "AlRice" <Allen(at)allenrice.net> |
I welded my entire Skybolt using TIG. But I also needed my O/A rig for heating
some things up. TIG's the only way to go to get the best quality welds and the
least amount of warpage due to its very small heat affected zone (HAZ). With
a little bit of practice, your welds will look like a neat stack of dimes.
Very strong and pretty!
--------
Al Rice
Skybolt 260
RV-9A
Helping with my grandson's Piet
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=323506#323506
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/fusetackedfront_107.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | AMsafetyC(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: TIG inverter welder? |
The unit is a DC only unit which means you cannot TIG weld aluminum which
requires AC current to do. Additionally there is no foot pedal to control
the Amperage (heat) and you will more then likely have to scratch to start
the arc which eventually contaminates the tungsten. By the time you add the
torch, argon gauge and regulator you will still not be able to do much more
than advertised. The big come on is they are TIG units, however you never
get the full measure or range of usage out of it. If you decide to go that
way I may be selling one of my hi freq arc initiator boxes which will get
you away from scratch starting but will not give you foot control and or
aluminum capabilities.
This really depends on what you're looking for as far as a TIG rig
John
In a message dated 12/15/2010 4:08:32 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
ken.riffic(at)gmail.com writes:
Forney 00390 AT-100 ARC-TIG Inverter Welder
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG FORSCOM" <steven.d.dortch(at)us.army.mil> |
| Subject: | Re: looking for Fairchild N81288 (off-topic) |
How about the owners group?
http://www.fairchildclub.org/
Blue Skies,
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Wednesday, December 15, 2010 21:41
Subject: Pietenpol-List: looking for Fairchild N81288 (off-topic)
>
> Thanks to all who responded, especially Hans in Waller, TX...
> where Malcolm owns a hangar (or his estate does).
>
> Now on to the next bit of the trail: the Fairchild may be, or have
> been, in Lakeland Florida. It is very obviously no longer in
> Malcolm's hangar in Waller, Texas. If anyone in the Lakeland area
> knows of a Fairchild or someone who is into old airplanes who
> might be aware of it, I'd appreciate any help... off-list, please.
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
> San Antonio, TX
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> |
| Subject: | Re: TIG inverter welder? |
For what little welding I would have to do on my Piet I don't think I want
to spend $2K on a welder. But thanks for the information. I have a good
friend who lives about 30 miles away who is an AI who says he can teach me
to weld with oxyaccel in a day -- maybe 2. I'm sure I'll go that route.
Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Franklin" <jbfjr(at)peoplepc.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2010 8:41 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: TIG inverter welder?
>
> Ken,
>
> Weekend before last I took the EAA gas welding class here in Houston, so
> obviously I'm a novice, but I can repeat some of the instructor's comments
> about TIG and oxyacetylene;
> 1. Oxyacetylene is a dying art, only used by individuals. The commercial
> world has already gone to TIG. It is getting more and more difficult to
> buy welding tips, rods, etc.
> 2. A decent TIG rig will cost about $2K. He only recommended Lincoln or
> Miller. I think he said Hobart is made by Miller but I'm not sure.
> 3. If you can weld oxyacetylene, you can weld with TIG.
>
> I'm also fairly certain that William Wynne recommends that first-timers
> use oxyacetylene on their homebuilts. If you would like the EAA welding
> instructor's email address, I'm sure he wouldn't mind answering any
> questions you might have. Contact me offline and I'll get you his email
> address.
>
> Best regards,
> John F.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>>From: Ken Chambers <ken.riffic(at)gmail.com>
>>Sent: Dec 15, 2010 1:27 PM
>>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>>Subject: Pietenpol-List: TIG inverter welder?
>>
>>Anyone have any experience with these? The welder below gets great reviews
>>on Amazon.
>>
>>And it looks like it can handle typical Pietenpol thicknesses.
>>
>>Amazingly cheap too.
>>
>>
>>Forney 00390 AT-100 ARC-TIG Inverter Welder
>>
>>
>>Ken, who's got to start welding soon.
>
>
> ________________________________________
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Please report in |
| From: | helspersew(at)aol.com |
Are there any new Piets on track for first arrival at Brodhead 2011?
Gene Rambo, please report.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "pineymb" <airltd(at)mts.net> |
Any of you guys out there that are running small continental engines, what is you
advice regarding openings in the nose cone.
Are they required and if so size and location.
I have seen pictures of Piets with and without.
Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.
--------
Adrian M
Winnipeg, MB
Canada
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=323519#323519
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00333_872.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00328_124.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu> |
We run a C-85. Our cowling has openings in the front, but I don't
think they're needed. We keep them covered, or could keep them
covered, nearly all year. Our engine temp has only gotten over 180
once, as far as I can recall. Maybe start without them, and then if
your temps seem high, start cutting. However, I would think that
cooling the cylinders and heads is much more important.
>
>Any of you guys out there that are running small continental
>engines, what is you advice regarding openings in the nose cone.
>
>Are they required and if so size and location.
>
>I have seen pictures of Piets with and without.
>
>Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.
>
>--------
>Adrian M
>Winnipeg, MB
>Canada
>
--
---
Jeffrey H. Boatright, Ph.D.
Associate Professor of Ophthalmology
Emory University School of Medicine
Editor-in-Chief
Molecular Vision
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | airlion <airlion(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Please report in |
I am planning on being there for a first arrival in my Piet. Gardiner Mason
----- Original Message ----
From: "helspersew(at)aol.com" <helspersew(at)aol.com>
Sent: Thu, December 16, 2010 7:11:12 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Please report in
Are there any new Piets on track for first arrival at Brodhead 2011?
Gene Rambo, please report.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Please report in |
| From: | "Pieti Lowell" <Lowellcfrank(at)yahoo.com> |
Will be there with Bells on. Need 36 caps.
Pieti Lowell
Don't archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=323526#323526
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "bender" <jfaith(at)solairusaviation.com> |
the caning came from Woodcraft... i didn't even know they had it till last week
.. i stopped in to pick up the inlay and maple veneer for the dash and just happened
to see it..
i bought 2 feet and 10 feet of reed to hold it in place... then looked at a video
on youtube to get the basic idea of how to do it..
i don't have a table saw so i marked the width of the groove i needed and carefully
cut it with a cordless circular saw
it's actually very comfortable to sit on and easy to do
jeff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=323528#323528
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Please report in |
| From: | "bender" <jfaith(at)solairusaviation.com> |
i have dreams but....
like Mr Cuy says... plan on double the time
jeff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=323529#323529
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "TOM STINEMETZE" <TOMS(at)mcpcity.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Please report in |
Speaking of Mr. Cuy. Why isn't your name on that official list of project
builders/owners? I believe you might barely qualify.
Stinemetze
>>> "bender" 12/16/2010 8:24 AM >>>
i have dreams but....
like Mr Cuy says... plan on double the time
jeff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: TIG inverter welder? |
I am not all that experienced with TIG welding, but I am successful at it. I love
to weld now and it is quite easy to TIG just about anything. All of my welds
are TIG. Takes some time and practice...it took me about 5-10 hours of actual
welding to feel very comfortable doing steel stainless and even some aluminum.
Michael Perez
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jeff wilson <jlwilsonnn(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Please report in |
------ Here is two possibilities. EAA chapter 64, KCPS, is buil
ding a Piet under the sub group "Scrounge Dawgs". We wanted to have it done
for last years reunion but I think that was more of a rallying point. It c
ould happen this year though, all we have left to build is the Center wing
section.
------ I am also building my own Piet and I expect it to be rea
dy to fly this summer BUT it may be a close shave considering 50 hour fly o
ff time plus my own flying experience does not include any conventional gea
r time.
----- So look for- a basic green colored "Scrounge Dawg" Piet o
r mine is N899WT and will be painted in Army Air Corps trainer Blue and Yel
low.
Jeff Wilson
St. Louis
H49
--- On Thu, 12/16/10, helspersew(at)aol.com wrote:
From: helspersew(at)aol.com <helspersew(at)aol.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Please report in
Date: Thursday, December 16, 2010, 6:11 AM
Are there any new Piets on track for first arrival at Brodhead 2011?
Gene Rambo, please report.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
le, List Admin.
=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Birke" <jimbir(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Covering question |
We are building an air camper with a three piece wing. according to the
plans, there is a 2-3/8" gap between the wing panel butt rib and the
center section butt rib. Since this is the separation point between the
two panels, what is done with this gap when covering the wing? We don't
see any way of supporting the covering at the butt end of the center
section.
Thanks,
Jim Birke
Ira G. Ross Aerospace museum
Restoration facility
Niagara Falls N.Y.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> |
I've been welding for 30 years in various capacities, and probably weld
every other day in my sculpting studio. Learned on Oxyacetylene, then
learned stick, mig and tig. I'm not expert welder, but I've worked with
them all.
MIG welding, commonly called "wire feed" is one of the most common welding
methods out there because it's real fast. It is however, not recommended
for airplane construction as it is difficult to control the quality of the
weld and penetration to the degree required. I'm sure a top welder could
produce a serviceable aircraft structure, but it's tricky for most guys.
Stick welding is not for airplanes.
Gas welding or Oxyacetylene welding uses two tanks of gas, oxygen and
acetylene to produce an actual flame which is used to do the welding. It
has been used forever on aircraft and can produce great welds. More heat is
generated over a larger area than the electric welding methods, which can
cause problems, but can also be used to straighten things. A gas rig is
cheaper than most tig rigs.
Tig welding to me, really feels a lot like gas welding as you're holding the
torch in one hand, and the filler rod in the other. Tig to me is the way to
go, though the machines are expensive. They easily weld steel, stainless
and aluminum, and lots of other metals.
I much prefer tig welding, and as stated earlier by others, is now the
standard aircraft welding method worldwide. I find it requires about the
same amount of technique as gas, is cleaner and faster and very, very handy
around the shop. I also have a gas rig though for other jobs like brazing,
silver soldering, stress relieving and removing warps.
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Covering question |
Hi Jim,
I used a 4" wide strip of .025" thick 2024-T3 aluminum to cover the gap. I
drilled #10 holes about 4" apart and screwed the fairings directly to the
ribs of the wing root and centersection butt with # 10 sheet metal screws.
The fairings are each one piece, starting at the trailing edge, wrapping
around the leading edge and back to the trailing edge. As you can see in
the picture below, I started by screwing the bottom of the trailing edge to
the ribs, then wrapped around the leaading edge and put tension on the strip
with a weight (the cinder block you see hanging from the strip) to hold it
tight while I got all the screw holes done. Once the holes were positioned,
I trimmed the trailing edge and tucked it under the fairing on the bottom of
the wing so there was not an edge exposed to the slipstream. They have
worked just fine for 5 years and over 200 hours of flying.
Good luck!
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Raleigh, NC
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Birke
Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2010 10:03 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Covering question
We are building an air camper with a three piece wing. according to the
plans, there is a 2-3/8" gap between the wing panel butt rib and the center
section butt rib. Since this is the separation point between the two panels,
what is done with this gap when covering the wing? We don't see any way of
supporting the covering at the butt end of the center section.
Thanks,
Jim Birke
Ira G. Ross Aerospace museum
Restoration facility
Niagara Falls N.Y.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Please report in |
I'm going to try, but probably won't make it this year. There is still a
LOT to do!
Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: <helspersew(at)aol.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2010 7:11 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Please report in
>
> Are there any new Piets on track for first arrival at Brodhead 2011?
>
> Gene Rambo, please report.
>
> Dan Helsper
> Poplar Grove, IL.
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> |
I've been welding for 30 years in various capacities, and probably weld
every other day in my sculpting studio. Learned on Oxyacetylene, then
learned stick, mig and tig. I'm not expert welder, but I've worked with
them all.
MIG welding, commonly called "wire feed" is one of the most common welding
methods out there because it's real fast. It is however, not recommended
for airplane construction as it is difficult to control the quality of the
weld and penetration to the degree required. I'm sure a top welder could
produce a serviceable aircraft structure, but it's tricky for most guys.
Stick welding is not for airplanes.
Gas welding or Oxyacetylene welding uses two tanks of gas, oxygen and
acetylene to produce an actual flame which is used to do the welding. It
has been used forever on aircraft and can produce great welds. More heat is
generated over a larger area than the electric welding methods, which can
cause problems, but can also be used to straighten things. A gas rig is
cheaper than most tig rigs.
Tig welding to me, really feels a lot like gas welding as you're holding the
torch in one hand, and the filler rod in the other. Tig to me is the way to
go, though the machines are expensive. They easily weld steel, stainless
and aluminum, and lots of other metals.
I much prefer tig welding, and as stated earlier by others, is now the
standard aircraft welding method worldwide. I find it requires about the
same amount of technique as gas, is cleaner and faster and very, very handy
around the shop. I also have a gas rig though for other jobs like brazing,
silver soldering, stress relieving and removing warps.
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Please report in |
I know that was for Jeff but I know my name is probably not on that list
either. How do I make the team?
Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: TOM STINEMETZE
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2010 9:49 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Please report in
Speaking of Mr. Cuy. Why isn't your name on that official list of
project builders/owners? I believe you might barely qualify.
Stinemetze
>>> "bender" 12/16/2010 8:24 AM >>>
i have dreams but....
like Mr Cuy says... plan on double the time
jeff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "AlRice" <Allen(at)allenrice.net> |
Thanks for the info on the seat, Jeff. Hope you don't mind if I copy you. Very
vintage!
--------
Al Rice
Skybolt 260
RV-9A
Helping with my grandson's Piet
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=323546#323546
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Please report in |
Unless things have changed I believe you only need 40 hours fly-off
time. Is that correct or have they changed the rules?
----- Original Message -----
From: jeff wilson
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2010 9:55 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Please report in
Here is two possibilities. EAA chapter 64, KCPS, is
building a Piet under the sub group "Scrounge Dawgs". We wanted to have
it done for last years reunion but I think that was more of a rallying
point. It could happen this year though, all we have left to build is
the Center wing section.
I am also building my own Piet and I expect it to be
ready to fly this summer BUT it may be a close shave considering 50 hour
fly off time plus my own flying experience does not include any
conventional gear time.
So look for a basic green colored "Scrounge Dawg" Piet or
mine is N899WT and will be painted in Army Air Corps trainer Blue and
Yellow.
Jeff Wilson
St. Louis
H49
--- On Thu, 12/16/10, helspersew(at)aol.com
wrote:
From: helspersew(at)aol.com <helspersew(at)aol.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Please report in
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Thursday, December 16, 2010, 6:11 AM
Are there any new Piets on track for first arrival at Brodhead
2011?
Gen-= November is the Annual List Fund
-========================
; - ->
http://======================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Covering question |
We used a pair of aluminum strips as Jack did, but over the years
they got beat up and never fit that well. Plus, if you mess around
with dihedral, their holes won't match the holes in the ribs any more.
These days we use tarp tape. Several flights in freezing temps so far
this winter and no problems. I bought it at:
http://www.bacindustries.com/product3-tarp-access-3x108-tarp-tape-white.php
One roll should last several Piets through several annuals. No doubt
some paint will be lost at the next annual, though we plan just to
slit it for inspect and then patch over. White over white won't be
seen from 2 feet away.
>We are building an air camper with a three piece wing. according to
>the plans, there is a 2-3/8" gap between the wing panel butt rib and
>the center section butt rib. Since this is the separation point
>between the two panels, what is done with this gap when covering the
>wing? We don't see any way of supporting the covering at the butt
>end of the center section.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Jim Birke
>Ira G. Ross Aerospace museum
>Restoration facility
>Niagara Falls N.Y.
--
Jeff Boatright
"Now let's think about this..."
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Please report in |
I hope to finally make Brodhead in a Piet in 2011.
--
Jeff Boatright
"Now let's think about this..."
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Covering question |
I was planning to cover the gap with a strip of aluminum. That could
also be the ground plane for a VHF antenna if you planning on having a
radio.
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Birke
To: Pietenpol list
Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2010 10:03 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Covering question
We are building an air camper with a three piece wing. according to
the plans, there is a 2-3/8" gap between the wing panel butt rib and the
center section butt rib. Since this is the separation point between the
two panels, what is done with this gap when covering the wing? We don't
see any way of supporting the covering at the butt end of the center
section.
Thanks,
Jim Birke
Ira G. Ross Aerospace museum
Restoration facility
Niagara Falls N.Y.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "TOM STINEMETZE" <TOMS(at)mcpcity.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Please report in |
Chuck:
Jack Textor posted an e-mail a couple of days ago with an Excel spreadsheet
template which I have attached below. Just fill it out and e-mail it
back to him directly. I believe his e-mail address is: jack(at)textors.com
Stinemetze
>>> "Charles Campbell" 12/16/2010 9:48 AM >>>
I know that was for Jeff but I know my name is probably not on that list
either. How do I make the team?
Chuck
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> |
| Subject: | Re: TIG inverter welder? |
Michael, do you own your own TIG outfit or are you fortunate enough to
know someone who does?
Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Perez
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2010 9:51 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: TIG inverter welder?
I am not all that experienced with TIG welding, but I am
successful at it. I love to weld now and it is quite easy to TIG just
about anything. All of my welds are TIG. Takes some time and
practice...it took me about 5-10 hours of actual welding to feel very
comfortable doing steel stainless and even some aluminum.
Michael Perez
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
Group,
Just thought I'd pass this along...I purchase a fuel tank from this Gent
and he also has (2) - A-65's for sale as well as an O-200. Here are the
pics. If you are interested contact me off list for his info at
Brian.e.jardine@L-3com.com
Brian
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
http://forums.matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Chambers <ken.riffic(at)gmail.com> |
Thanks Douwe. Good info.
Have you worked with any of the cheap TIG welders, like this one?
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-key
words=tig+regulator&x=0&y=0
Although it's not as cheap as it seems because you still need the $214 torc
h
and a regulator, as someone else pointed out.
Ken
On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 9:23 AM, Douwe Blumberg wrote:
> I=92ve been welding for 30 years in various capacities, and probably wel
d
> every other day in my sculpting studio. Learned on Oxyacetylene, then
> learned stick, mig and tig. I=92m not expert welder, but I=92ve worked w
ith
> them all.
>
>
> MIG welding, commonly called =93wire feed=94 is one of the most common we
lding
> methods out there because it=92s real fast. It is however, not recommend
ed
> for airplane construction as it is difficult to control the quality of th
e
> weld and penetration to the degree required. I=92m sure a top welder cou
ld
> produce a serviceable aircraft structure, but it=92s tricky for most guys
.
>
>
> Stick welding is not for airplanes.
>
>
> Gas welding or Oxyacetylene welding uses two tanks of gas, oxygen and
> acetylene to produce an actual flame which is used to do the welding. It
> has been used forever on aircraft and can produce great welds. More heat
is
> generated over a larger area than the electric welding methods, which can
> cause problems, but can also be used to straighten things. A gas rig is
> cheaper than most tig rigs.
>
>
> Tig welding to me, really feels a lot like gas welding as you=92re holdin
g
> the torch in one hand, and the filler rod in the other. Tig to me is the
> way to go, though the machines are expensive. They easily weld steel,
> stainless and aluminum, and lots of other metals.
>
>
> I much prefer tig welding, and as stated earlier by others, is now the
> standard aircraft welding method worldwide. I find it requires about the
> same amount of technique as gas, is cleaner and faster and very, very han
dy
> around the shop. I also have a gas rig though for other jobs like brazin
g,
> silver soldering, stress relieving and removing warps.
>
>
> Douwe
>
> *
>
===========
===========
===========
============*
>
>
--
Ken Chambers
512-796-1798
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dnboyd1(at)comcast.net |
trying to figure out how to post a message
D. Boyd, Champaign IL
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: TIG inverter welder? |
| From: | Ken Chambers <ken.riffic(at)gmail.com> |
Thanks John. Good to know.
I don't need to weld aluminum, but anything that makes it easier to learn is
a plus.
On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 12:06 AM, wrote:
> The unit is a DC only unit which means you cannot TIG weld aluminum which
> requires AC current to do. Additionally there is no foot pedal to control
> the Amperage (heat) and you will more then likely have to scratch to start
> the arc which eventually contaminates the tungsten. By the time you add the
> torch, argon gauge and regulator you will still not be able to do much more
> than advertised. The big come on is they are TIG units, however you never
> get the full measure or range of usage out of it. If you decide to go that
> way I may be selling one of my hi freq arc initiator boxes which will get
> you away from scratch starting but will not give you foot control and
> or aluminum capabilities.
>
> This really depends on what you're looking for as far as a TIG rig
>
> John
>
> In a message dated 12/15/2010 4:08:32 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> ken.riffic(at)gmail.com writes:
>
> Forney 00390 AT-100 ARC-TIG Inverter Welder
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
--
Ken Chambers
512-796-1798
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | airlion <airlion(at)bellsouth.net> |
you just did. har har har
________________________________
From: "dnboyd1(at)comcast.net" <dnboyd1(at)comcast.net>
Sent: Thu, December 16, 2010 12:22:48 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: test msg
trying to figure out how to post a message
D. Boyd, Champaign IL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
And it doesn't look like the cheap ones do AC needed for aluminum. Not a bi
g
deal on a Piet, I only needed to do aluminum welding on my fuel tank, you
can just do a riveted fuel tank.
rick
On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 10:03 AM, Ken Chambers wrote
:
>
> Thanks Douwe. Good info.
>
> Have you worked with any of the cheap TIG welders, like this one?
>
> http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-k
eywords=tig+regulator&x=0&y=0
>
> Although it's not as cheap as it seems because you still need the $214
> torch and a regulator, as someone else pointed out.
>
> Ken
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 9:23 AM, Douwe Blumberg <
> douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>> I=92ve been welding for 30 years in various capacities, and probably we
ld
>> every other day in my sculpting studio. Learned on Oxyacetylene, then
>> learned stick, mig and tig. I=92m not expert welder, but I=92ve worked
with
>> them all.
>>
>>
>>
>> MIG welding, commonly called =93wire feed=94 is one of the most common w
elding
>> methods out there because it=92s real fast. It is however, not recommen
ded
>> for airplane construction as it is difficult to control the quality of t
he
>> weld and penetration to the degree required. I=92m sure a top welder co
uld
>> produce a serviceable aircraft structure, but it=92s tricky for most guy
s.
>>
>>
>>
>> Stick welding is not for airplanes.
>>
>>
>>
>> Gas welding or Oxyacetylene welding uses two tanks of gas, oxygen and
>> acetylene to produce an actual flame which is used to do the welding. I
t
>> has been used forever on aircraft and can produce great welds. More hea
t is
>> generated over a larger area than the electric welding methods, which ca
n
>> cause problems, but can also be used to straighten things. A gas rig is
>> cheaper than most tig rigs.
>>
>>
>>
>> Tig welding to me, really feels a lot like gas welding as you=92re holdi
ng
>> the torch in one hand, and the filler rod in the other. Tig to me is th
e
>> way to go, though the machines are expensive. They easily weld steel,
>> stainless and aluminum, and lots of other metals.
>>
>>
>>
>> I much prefer tig welding, and as stated earlier by others, is now the
>> standard aircraft welding method worldwide. I find it requires about th
e
>> same amount of technique as gas, is cleaner and faster and very, very ha
ndy
>> around the shop. I also have a gas rig though for other jobs like brazi
ng,
>> silver soldering, stress relieving and removing warps.
>>
>>
>>
>> Douwe
>>
>> *
>>
>> _blank">www.aeroelectric.com
>> .com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
>> ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>> tp://forums.matronics.com*
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Ken Chambers
> 512-796-1798
>
> *
>
===========
===========
===========
============*
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "AmsafetyC(at)aol.com" <AmsafetyC(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: TIG inverter welder=?UTF-8?B?Pw==? |
Al may be in your future if you plan on fuel tanks. 032 material needs Rig
with a pedal and icy makes it disappear into transparent aluminum. You may
want to set your sights on doing aluminum then have to set up for it after
the fact
John
Diversity of alternatives gives many more options for skinning that cat
Do no archive
John
Sent via DROID on Verizon Wireless
-----Original message-----
From: Ken Chambers <ken.riffic(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Thu, Dec 16, 2010 17:31:36 GMT+00:00
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: TIG inverter welder?
Thanks John. Good to know.
I don't need to weld aluminum, but anything that makes it easier to learn is
a plus.
On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 12:06 AM, wrote:
> The unit is a DC only unit which means you cannot TIG weld aluminum which
> requires AC current to do. Additionally there is no foot pedal to control
> the Amperage (heat) and you will more then likely have to scratch to start
> the arc which eventually contaminates the tungsten. By the time you add
the
> torch, argon gauge and regulator you will still not be able to do much
more
> than advertised. The big come on is they are TIG units, however you never
> get the full measure or range of usage out of it. If you decide to go that
> way I may be selling one of my hi freq arc initiator boxes which will get
> you away from scratch starting but will not give you foot control and
> or aluminum capabilities.
>
> This really depends on what you're looking for as far as a TIG rig
>
> John
>
> In a message dated 12/15/2010 4:08:32 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> ken.riffic(at)gmail.com writes:
>
> Forney 00390 AT-100 ARC-TIG Inverter Welder
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
--
Ken Chambers
512-796-1798
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Covering question |
| From: | "AlRice" <Allen(at)allenrice.net> |
I glued 1/16" plywood on the faces of the butt ribs to provide an attachment for
the covering and seal the wings and center section from the weather.
Hope this helps.
--------
Al Rice
Skybolt 260
RV-9A
Helping with my grandson's Piet
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=323582#323582
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ben Charvet <bencharvet(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Covering question |
I used strips of aluminum with #8 wood screws into the ribs on both
sides. I don't think I'd want to mount my antenna on aluminum that thin
though.
Ben Charvet
On 12/16/2010 10:57 AM, Charles Campbell wrote:
> I was planning to cover the gap with a strip of aluminum. That could
> also be the ground plane for a VHF antenna if you planning on having a
> radio.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Jim Birke
> *To:* Pietenpol list
> *Sent:* Thursday, December 16, 2010 10:03 AM
> *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: Covering question
>
> We are building an air camper with a three piece wing. according
> to the plans, there is a 2-3/8" gap between the wing panel butt
> rib and the center section butt rib. Since this is the separation
> point between the two panels, what is done with this gap when
> covering the wing? We don't see any way of supporting the covering
> at the butt end of the center section.
> Thanks,
> Jim Birke
> Ira G. Ross Aerospace museum
> Restoration facility
> Niagara Falls N.Y.
>
> *
>
> href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
> href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
> href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> *
>
> *
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Tunnicliffe" <zk-owl(at)CLEAR.NET.NZ> |
It looks very nice but will it handle your weight x 6 G? And if it did
collapse in turbulence would you still be able to operate the controls?
Regards Mike T.
----- Original Message -----
From: "bender" <jfaith(at)solairusaviation.com>
Sent: Friday, December 17, 2010 3:22 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: progress
>
>
> the caning came from Woodcraft... i didn't even know they had it till last
> week .. i stopped in to pick up the inlay and maple veneer for the dash
> and just happened to see it..
> i bought 2 feet and 10 feet of reed to hold it in place... then looked at
> a video on youtube to get the basic idea of how to do it..
> i don't have a table saw so i marked the width of the groove i needed and
> carefully cut it with a cordless circular saw
> it's actually very comfortable to sit on and easy to do
>
> jeff
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=323528#323528
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gliderx5(at)comcast.net |
| Subject: | Re: Please report in |
It's probably a long shot, but I hope to make it. Still lots to do!
Malcolm Morrison
http://home.comcast.net/~mmorrison123/piet.html
----- Original Message -----
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2010 7:11:12 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Please report in
Are there any new Piets on track for first arrival at Brodhead 2011?
Gene Rambo, please report.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: TIG....no no no |
| From: | hvandervoo(at)aol.com |
I prefer TIG over gas welding as produces better joints as heat is more con
centrated and easier controlled.
Post welding reheating aka Stress relieving is not always necessary.
But is recommended in high stress areas:
Wing attachment point, motor mounts and landing gear attachment points
In short when in doubt, stress relief.
Hans
NX 15 KV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> |
Yeah! I'm copying him, also. Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: "AlRice" <Allen(at)allenrice.net>
Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2010 10:51 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: progress
>
> Thanks for the info on the seat, Jeff. Hope you don't mind if I copy you.
> Very vintage!
>
> --------
> Al Rice
> Skybolt 260
> RV-9A
> Helping with my grandson's Piet
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=323546#323546
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Covering question |
I like the tarp tape idea!
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Birke
To: Pietenpol list
Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2010 10:03 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Covering question
We are building an air camper with a three piece wing. according to
the plans, there is a 2-3/8" gap between the wing panel butt rib and the
center section butt rib. Since this is the separation point between the
two panels, what is done with this gap when covering the wing? We don't
see any way of supporting the covering at the butt end of the center
section.
Thanks,
Jim Birke
Ira G. Ross Aerospace museum
Restoration facility
Niagara Falls N.Y.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Please report in |
| From: | "Dangerous Dave" <dsornbor(at)aol.com> |
Covering over Xmas week,see no reason can't make it.Maybe Rick and I can fly out
together.Dave NX59061
--------
Covering Piet
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=323620#323620
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Please report in |
| From: | Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
Ah, ... yea maybe.
rick
On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 6:39 PM, Dangerous Dave wrote:
>
> Covering over Xmas week,see no reason can't make it.Maybe Rick and I can
> fly out together.Dave NX59061
>
> --------
> Covering Piet
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=323620#323620
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Looking for Fairchild N81288 (off-topic) |
Jerry wrote:
>Oscar I am working on it.( Fairchild N81288)
Steve Dortch suggested I try the Fairchild owners' group.
Thanks for the help, guys. I had forgotten that my friend
David Stroud from the Corvair list is building a Fairchild
replica (though not the 24W) and is on that list, so he's
put the word out too. We'll see what turns up.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
San Antonio, TX
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Please report in |
Dan asked:
>Are there any new Piets on track for first arrival at Brodhead 2011?
Define "new". We're talking about a 1929 design here ;o)
The year 2011 will be my best shot at ever making it to Brodhead with
Scout since I will turn 60 on July 28 and that buys me all kinds of
sympathy with my wife. I've had the charts and routes all planned for
several years but may make some minor tweaks to the route next year
since I will probably fly two-up with my hangar mate Craig Wall and he
is a Tulsa boy. May have to veer into Markle territory.
Craig is re-engining his Cassutt and has promised to let me fly it
when it's back in the air. I have dreamed of flying a Cassutt ever
since my old instructor Charlie used to fly his little screamer,
"Hiccup", at my old home base of Laredo International.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
San Antonio, TX
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
Adrian asked-
>Any of you guys out there that are running small continental engines,
>what is your advice regarding openings in the nose cone. Are they
>required and if so size and location.
Scout has run an A65 and presently is running an A75. No openings in
the nose cone, no cooling problems, and we are in south Texas where 95F
in the summertime is considered a cool day.
Like Jack, I think I have only seen 180F on the oil temp one time on my
A75 and that was in the middle of the summer after a climb to 4500', with
less than 20 hours on the engine since major overhaul so it was (and is)
still quite tight. Most of the time it will settle around 160 in level
cruise, but it takes a while to get to that temp in cooler weather.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
San Antonio, TX
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | cheap tig welders |
No, I have not used one of the cheaper, smaller tig welders. My GUESS (and
it's only a guess) is that they'd probably be powerful enough for pretty
much anything you'd need to weld on an airplane, but they might be trickier
to start as they probably don't have a HF start capability, which is okay,
just have to strike it to start.
I'd also question how they do with aluminum as aluminum requires MUCH more
heat and amperage to weld then the equivalent thickness of steel.
That's about all I can say about that.
RE Brodhead 2011. I'd sure like to be ready, but am seriously doubting it
now with my intense work schedule, but we'll see. I keep plugging away.
Wings are done, and recovered, new wheels almost done. Have to recover
fuselage, finish cowling, hook up engine, make new gas tank and then see if
my engine needs an overhaul or not as it's been sitting for a while.
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> |
I guess I'm confused. What do you mean "no openings in the nose cone?"
Most of the aircooled engines I have seen on Aircampers have the "rabbit
ears" above the cylinders and heads to direct cooling air down through the
engine.
Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Sent: Friday, December 17, 2010 9:05 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Cowl
>
>
> Adrian asked-
>
>>Any of you guys out there that are running small continental engines,
>>what is your advice regarding openings in the nose cone. Are they
>>required and if so size and location.
>
> Scout has run an A65 and presently is running an A75. No openings in
> the nose cone, no cooling problems, and we are in south Texas where 95F
> in the summertime is considered a cool day.
>
> Like Jack, I think I have only seen 180F on the oil temp one time on my
> A75 and that was in the middle of the summer after a climb to 4500', with
> less than 20 hours on the engine since major overhaul so it was (and is)
> still quite tight. Most of the time it will settle around 160 in level
> cruise, but it takes a while to get to that temp in cooler weather.
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
> San Antonio, TX
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG FORSCOM" <steven.d.dortch(at)us.army.mil> |
| Subject: | Re: Looking for Fairchild N81288 (off-topic) |
When I (meaning my wife) decided we should move up to a 4 seat airplane from my
1959 Cessna 150, I started looking at anything with 4 seats. So I called this
guy trying to sell a Fairchild 24R (with the Ranger engine, inverted.) Once I
found out that they would carry 4 but not too fast and engine parts were hard
to find, I told the guy I was not interested. Though I complemented him on the
plane.
He insisted on flying it up from central OK to Enid and showing it to me. So I
went out. What a beautiful bird. car type doors, tall and stately. the inverted
ranger engine looks neat. But still a 110 MPH plane drinking 13 GPH.
Neat Plane, Great antique.
Blue Skies,
Steve D
----- Original Message -----
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Friday, December 17, 2010 17:13
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Looking for Fairchild N81288 (off-topic)
>
>
> Jerry wrote:
>
> >Oscar I am working on it.( Fairchild N81288)
>
> Steve Dortch suggested I try the Fairchild owners' group.
>
> Thanks for the help, guys. I had forgotten that my friend
> David Stroud from the Corvair list is building a Fairchild
> replica (though not the 24W) and is on that list, so he's
> put the word out too. We'll see what turns up.
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
> San Antonio, TX
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Please report in |
| From: | "GliderMike" <glidermikeg(at)yahoo.com> |
I plan to be at Brodhead for the first time! Does that count for anything, even
if I drive a car up there?
--------
HOMEBUILDER
Will WORK for Spruce
Long flights, smooth air, and soft landings,
GliderMike, aka Mike Glasgow
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=323651#323651
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: runway length? |
| From: | Kip and Beth Gardner <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net> |
Everyone,
I just signed a contract on an 18 acre farm in NE Ohio - life is good. There is
the potential for a 600-650' (9/27 orientation) grass runway along one edge
of the primary field. To the west there are 40-50' trees about 300-350' from
the possible runway end. To the east, there are no obstructions for about 400',
and then none over 25' beyond that. 75'-plus hill immediately to the south-southeast
of the possible runway location, creek bottom to the north.
My question is, is this enough room to get a Piet in and out? I'll be using a
Corvair for power, I weigh 150 fully dressed & I'm seriously considering the Riblett
612 airfoil for the additional lift.
I'd also mention that there is a private field with available hangar space (Minerva,
Ohio) about 4 miles away, but I'd like the option of keeping the plane at
the farm.
Comments?
Thanks!
Kip Gardner
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Woodflier(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: New Piets for Brodhead 2011 |
Dan, I expect NX629ML will make it's first trip to Brodhead in 2011. Looks
like it'll be spring before the first flight though, with winter clamping
down early like it has. I usually make a stop at Big Foot for a day or two
before Oshkosh but will probably go direct to Brodhead next year. I think
Jack Phillips is thinking about flying up with me, and another friend who
recently finished a Chinook project.
Matt Paxton
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: New Piets for Brodhead 2011 |
Sounds like we'll have a good contingent from Virginia, with Gene Rambo's
Model A powered Pietenpol, and Matt's new Continental powered Piet, with my
Icarus Plummet making her 4th trip to Brodhead. The trick will be finding
fields where Gene can land, since he has a tailskid and no brakes. Should
be fun.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Raleigh, NC (although the Pietenpol is now based at W91, Smith Mountain
Lake, Virginia)
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Woodflier(at)aol.com
Sent: Friday, December 17, 2010 10:30 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: New Piets for Brodhead 2011
Dan, I expect NX629ML will make it's first trip to Brodhead in 2011. Looks
like it'll be spring before the first flight though, with winter clamping
down early like it has. I usually make a stop at Big Foot for a day or two
before Oshkosh but will probably go direct to Brodhead next year. I think
Jack Phillips is thinking about flying up with me, and another friend who
recently finished a Chinook project.
Matt Paxton
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: runway length? |
| From: | hvandervoo(at)aol.com |
My landing and take off roll are in the 300 - 400 ft range.
So it is possible but with little room for error.
What are the prevailing winds ?
If you have crosswind most of the time it would be very exciting landings!
Hans
NX15KV
-----Original Message-----
From: Kip and Beth Gardner <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net>
Sent: Fri, Dec 17, 2010 9:34 am
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: runway length?
hlink.net>
Everyone,
I just signed a contract on an 18 acre farm in NE Ohio - life is good. The
re is
he potential for a 600-650' (9/27 orientation) grass runway along one edge
of
he primary field. To the west there are 40-50' trees about 300-350' from t
he
ossible runway end. To the east, there are no obstructions for about 400',
and
hen none over 25' beyond that. 75'-plus hill immediately to the
outh-southeast of the possible runway location, creek bottom to the north.
My question is, is this enough room to get a Piet in and out? I'll be usin
g a
orvair for power, I weigh 150 fully dressed & I'm seriously considering the
iblett 612 airfoil for the additional lift.
I'd also mention that there is a private field with available hangar space
Minerva, Ohio) about 4 miles away, but I'd like the option of keeping the p
lane
t the farm.
Comments?
Thanks!
Kip Gardner
-
-= -- Please Support Your Lists This Month --
-= (And Get Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!)
-
-= November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Click on
-= the Contribution link below to find out more about
-= this year's Terrific Free Incentive Gifts provided
-= by:
-=
-= * AeroElectric www.aeroelectric.com
-= * The Builder's Bookstore www.buildersbooks.com
-= * HomebuiltHELP www.homebuilthelp.com
-
-= List Contribution Web Site:
-
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
-
-= Thank you for your generous support!
-
-= -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
-
-========================
-= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum -
-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
-= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
-= Photoshare, and much much more:
-
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
-
-========================
-= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
-= Same great content also available via the Web Forums!
-
-= --> http://forums.matronics.com
-
-========================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu> |
Take offs won't be a problem to the east. Landings will be tight
either way. Can the trees be taken down?
>
>
>Everyone,
>
>I just signed a contract on an 18 acre farm in NE Ohio - life is
>good. There is the potential for a 600-650' (9/27 orientation)
>grass runway along one edge of the primary field. To the west there
>are 40-50' trees about 300-350' from the possible runway end. To
>the east, there are no obstructions for about 400', and then none
>over 25' beyond that. 75'-plus hill immediately to the
>south-southeast of the possible runway location, creek bottom to the
>north.
>
>My question is, is this enough room to get a Piet in and out? I'll
>be using a Corvair for power, I weigh 150 fully dressed & I'm
>seriously considering the Riblett 612 airfoil for the additional
>lift.
>
>I'd also mention that there is a private field with available hangar
>space (Minerva, Ohio) about 4 miles away, but I'd like the option of
>keeping the plane at the farm.
>
>Comments?
>
>Thanks!
>
>Kip Gardner
>
--
Jeff Boatright
"Now let's think about this..."
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kip and Beth Gardner <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: runway length? |
Thanks Hans,
in this part of the world, normal prevailing winds tend to be from the
west. Any time it's coming from somewhere else, it's usually a
harbinger of weather you would not want to fly in anyway :).
Kip
On Dec 17, 2010, at 11:29 AM, HVandervoo(at)aol.com wrote:
> My landing and take off roll are in the 300 - 400 ft range.
>
> So it is possible but with little room for error.
>
> What are the prevailing winds ?
> If you have crosswind most of the time it would be very exciting
landings!
>
> Hans
>
> NX15KV
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kip and Beth Gardner <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net>
> To: pietenpol-list
> Sent: Fri, Dec 17, 2010 9:34 am
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: runway length?
>
>
> Everyone,
>
> I just signed a contract on an 18 acre farm in NE Ohio - life is good.
There is
> the potential for a 600-650' (9/27 orientation) grass runway along one
edge of
> the primary field. To the west there are 40-50' trees about 300-350'
from the
> possible runway end. To the east, there are no obstructions for about
400', and
> then none over 25' beyond that. 75'-plus hill immediately to the
> south-southeast of the possible runway location, creek bottom to the
north.
>
> My question is, is this enough room to get a Piet in and out? I'll be
using a
> Corvair for power, I weigh 150 fully dressed & I'm seriously
considering the
> Riblett 612 airfoil for the additional lift.
>
> I'd also mention that there is a private field with available hangar
space
> (Minerva, Ohio) about 4 miles away, but I'd like the option of keeping
the plane
> at the farm.
>
> Comments?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Kip Gardner
>
> _blank>www.aeroelectric.com
> /" target=_blank>www.buildersbooks.com
> =_blank>www.homebuilthelp.com
> blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> " target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> p://forums.matronics.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | airlion <airlion(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: runway length? |
If you are an Alaskan bush pilot with big wheels you might be able to get in or
out -- and have plenty of tail drag time. I would not try it and I have lots of
taildrag time. Go for the field next door. It is a lot more fun to be able to
get away for a beer. Cheers, Gardiner Mason
----- Original Message ----
From: Kip and Beth Gardner <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net>
Sent: Fri, December 17, 2010 10:30:50 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: runway length?
Everyone,
I just signed a contract on an 18 acre farm in NE Ohio - life is good. There is
the potential for a 600-650' (9/27 orientation) grass runway along one edge of
the primary field. To the west there are 40-50' trees about 300-350' from the
possible runway end. To the east, there are no obstructions for about 400', and
then none over 25' beyond that. 75'-plus hill immediately to the
south-southeast of the possible runway location, creek bottom to the north.
My question is, is this enough room to get a Piet in and out? I'll be using a
Corvair for power, I weigh 150 fully dressed & I'm seriously considering the
Riblett 612 airfoil for the additional lift.
I'd also mention that there is a private field with available hangar space
(Minerva, Ohio) about 4 miles away, but I'd like the option of keeping the plane
at the farm.
Comments?
Thanks!
Kip Gardner
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Clif Dawson" <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: runway length? |
Any chance of putting it kitty-corner ( or is that kiddy? )
That could give you another couple hundred feet.
Provided the property is square though.
Clif
> I just signed a contract on an 18 acre farm in NE Ohio - life is good.
> There is the potential for a 600-650' (9/27 orientation) grass runway
> along one edge of the primary field. >
> My question is, is this enough room to get a Piet in and out? I'll be
> using a Corvair for power, I weigh 150 fully dressed & I'm seriously
> considering the Riblett 612 airfoil for the additional lift.
>
> Kip Gardner
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kip and Beth Gardner <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: runway length? |
Unfortunately no unless the adjoining property owners were agreeable.
On Dec 17, 2010, at 12:13 PM, Jeff Boatright wrote:
> Take offs won't be a problem to the east. Landings will be tight
either way. Can the trees be taken down?
>
>
>>
>> Everyone,
>>
>> I just signed a contract on an 18 acre farm in NE Ohio - life is
good. There is the potential for a 600-650' (9/27 orientation) grass
runway along one edge of the primary field. To the west there are
40-50' trees about 300-350' from the possible runway end. To the east,
there are no obstructions for about 400', and then none over 25' beyond
that. 75'-plus hill immediately to the south-southeast of the possible
runway location, creek bottom to the north.
>>
>> My question is, is this enough room to get a Piet in and out? I'll
be using a Corvair for power, I weigh 150 fully dressed & I'm seriously
considering the Riblett 612 airfoil for the additional lift.
>>
>> I'd also mention that there is a private field with available hangar
space (Minerva, Ohio) about 4 miles away, but I'd like the option of
keeping the plane at the farm.
>>
>> Comments?
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> Kip Gardner
>>
>
>
> --
>
> Jeff Boatright
> "Now let's think about this..."
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kip and Beth Gardner <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: runway length? |
Thanks everyone. As with most things Pietenpol, it sounds like a
"your mileage may vary" situation. I know it's kind of marginal, just
curious about the opinions on just how marginal that is.
BTW Gary, I know it's approaching blasphemy to say that I did not buy
this land primarily with flying in mind, but that's the case. I'm
actually planning on farming this land - what a novel idea :) !
Kip
On Dec 17, 2010, at 2:24 PM, Clif Dawson wrote:
> >
>
> Any chance of putting it kitty-corner ( or is that kiddy? )
> That could give you another couple hundred feet.
> Provided the property is square though.
>
>
> Clif
>
>> I just signed a contract on an 18 acre farm in NE Ohio - life is
>> good. There is the potential for a 600-650' (9/27 orientation)
>> grass runway along one edge of the primary field. >
>> My question is, is this enough room to get a Piet in and out? I'll
>> be using a Corvair for power, I weigh 150 fully dressed & I'm
>> seriously considering the Riblett 612 airfoil for the additional
>> lift.
>>
>> Kip Gardner
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack" <jack(at)textors.com> |
| Subject: | PLEASE Help on Gear Fittings |
Guys, I'm cutting gear fittings today. For the split gear bottom and side
fitting plates, are they skewed to the left as shown on the drawings?
Thanks
Jack Textor
29 SW 58th Drive
Des Moines, IA 50312
www.textors.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Yocum <yocum(at)fnal.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: runway length? |
The field I fly out of is 2400' paved with a 1900' grass strip parallel
to the pavement. I'm happy when I can land in 600' on the grass. I
can't imagine trying to land on a field that's only 600' long. That's
too much pucker factor for my butt...
Dan
On 12/17/2010 12:48 PM, airlion wrote:
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: airlion
>
> If you are an Alaskan bush pilot with big wheels you might be able to get in
or
> out -- and have plenty of tail drag time. I would not try it and I have lots
of
> taildrag time. Go for the field next door. It is a lot more fun to be able to
> get away for a beer. Cheers, Gardiner Mason
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Kip and Beth Gardner<kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net>
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Fri, December 17, 2010 10:30:50 AM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: runway length?
>
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Kip and Beth Gardner
>
>
> Everyone,
>
> I just signed a contract on an 18 acre farm in NE Ohio - life is good. There
is
> the potential for a 600-650' (9/27 orientation) grass runway along one edge of
> the primary field. To the west there are 40-50' trees about 300-350' from the
> possible runway end. To the east, there are no obstructions for about 400',
and
> then none over 25' beyond that. 75'-plus hill immediately to the
> south-southeast of the possible runway location, creek bottom to the north.
>
> My question is, is this enough room to get a Piet in and out? I'll be using
a
> Corvair for power, I weigh 150 fully dressed& I'm seriously considering the
> Riblett 612 airfoil for the additional lift.
>
> I'd also mention that there is a private field with available hangar space
> (Minerva, Ohio) about 4 miles away, but I'd like the option of keeping the plane
> at the farm.
>
> Comments?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Kip Gardner
>
>
--
Dan Yocum
Fermilab 630.840.6509
yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Yocum <yocum(at)fnal.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: runway length? |
Kip,
You've seen a lot of Piet's land at Brodhead. The distance between the
entrance and exit "taxiways" (the closed runways) is just over 1000' and
most of the time I was just at the comfort speed for turning when I
reached the exit. Of course, I probably could have really slowed 'er
down more by creeping over the threshold and stomping on the brakes, but
that's no fun.
Dan
On 12/17/2010 03:06 PM, Dan Yocum wrote:
>
> The field I fly out of is 2400' paved with a 1900' grass strip parallel
> to the pavement. I'm happy when I can land in 600' on the grass. I can't
> imagine trying to land on a field that's only 600' long. That's too much
> pucker factor for my butt...
>
> Dan
>
> On 12/17/2010 12:48 PM, airlion wrote:
>>
>> If you are an Alaskan bush pilot with big wheels you might be able to
>> get in or
>> out -- and have plenty of tail drag time. I would not try it and I
>> have lots of
>> taildrag time. Go for the field next door. It is a lot more fun to be
>> able to
>> get away for a beer. Cheers, Gardiner Mason
>>
--
Dan Yocum
Fermilab 630.840.6509
yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: runway length? |
| From: | "Kringle" <Mrkringles(at)msn.com> |
I have 900 feet with no obstructions and was wondering if that is enough?
--------
John
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=323698#323698
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dnboyd1(at)comcast.net |
| Subject: | New Stewart Systems, Hanger 21 Covering system |
Getting ready to start covering....=C2- Has anyone any experience with th
e new Stewart Systems, from Hanger 21?
It is non toxic, no chemicals, etc.=C2-and you can work indoors.
Dave Boyd
Champaign, IL
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: New Stewart Systems, Hanger 21 Covering system |
| From: | Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
Ecobond is great for gluing on the fabric, no smell and more forgiving than
PolyTac.
On Fri, Dec 17, 2010 at 2:43 PM, wrote:
> Getting ready to start covering.... Has anyone any experience with the new
> Stewart Systems, from Hanger 21?
>
> It is non toxic, no chemicals, etc. and you can work indoors.
>
> Dave Boyd
>
> Champaign, IL
>
> *
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gliderx5(at)comcast.net |
| Subject: | Re: New Stewart Systems, Hanger 21 Covering system |
Ecobond is the only glue that I will ever use again. It's great! I have some pics
on my site. I did not use the Stewart system paint. Went with Behr latex and
am very pleased.
Malcolm Morrison
http://home.comcast.net/~mmorrison123/piet.html
----- Original Message -----
From: dnboyd1(at)comcast.net
Sent: Friday, December 17, 2010 4:43:20 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: New Stewart Systems, Hanger 21 Covering system
Getting ready to start covering.... Has anyone any experience with the new Stewart
Systems, from Hanger 21?
It is non toxic, no chemicals, etc. and you can work indoors.
Dave Boyd
Champaign, IL
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: runway length? |
| From: | "Jerry Dotson" <jdotson(at)centurylink.net> |
My runway is 1290 feet with power lines on the South end. The North end is open
with just a field then trees 1300 feet from the North end of the runway. It
is not for low time pilots or airplanes with stall speeds of 50 MPH or greater.
A Cessna 150 with 2 on board would be very iffy. I would not try it. A go round
into those power lines might invite a wreck because of the poor climb rate.
Cubs, Aeroncas work fine. One friend has a Cessna 140 and he works it just fine
but he has about 1500 hours in it. I would not fly off a 600 foot strip at
all with obstructions. I flew a Cessna 180 off 600 feet near Clewiston, FL for
a tomato farm conglomerate BUT the only obstructions were tomato plants.
--------
Jerry Dotson
59 Daniel Johnson Rd
Baker, FL 32531
Started building NX510JD July, 2009
wing, tailfeathers done
using Lycoming O-235
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=323711#323711
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: firewall size |
| From: | "GliderMike" <glidermikeg(at)yahoo.com> |
It was free to me. I think it is the same titanium used as a fire resistant enclosure
around the APU's in the Bombardier CRJ 200's 50 place regional airliner
we fly. Except there is no paperwork to trace this piece back to the mine the
ore came from, so the company can't use it on any of its airplanes.
--------
HOMEBUILDER
Will WORK for Spruce
Long flights, smooth air, and soft landings,
GliderMike, aka Mike Glasgow
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=323715#323715
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: PLEASE Help on Gear Fittings |
| From: | Andrew M Eldredge <andrew.eldredge(at)gmail.com> |
If you are talking about the 1/4 inch thick sections that the bungees bolt
to, For my part, I would not attempt to locate them other than with the
bungees in assembly.
Andrew
On Fri, Dec 17, 2010 at 11:05 AM, Jack wrote:
> Guys, I=92m cutting gear fittings today. For the split gear bottom and
> side fitting plates, are they skewed to the left as shown on the drawings
?
>
> Thanks
>
> Jack Textor
>
> 29 SW 58th Drive
>
> Des Moines, IA 50312
>
> www.textors.com
>
> *
>
===========
===========
===========
============*
>
>
--
Andrew Eldredge
Sahuarita, AZ
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: PLEASE Help on Gear Fittings |
| From: | "Dangerous Dave" <dsornbor(at)aol.com> |
Jack,They are skewed.BUT..Make all the pieces,weld up the gear legs,get them in
place where they go weld up the bungee cross pieces and hold them in place with
the mounting lugs bolted on and tack the lugs.Everyones gear is a bit different
and no plans will show exactly what angle and where they should be attached
at.If you dont you'll have to bend the a or something else a bit.Been there..Dave
PS have the axles even with the leading edge in flying config.
--------
Covering Piet
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=323720#323720
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: runway length? |
| From: | "Dangerous Dave" <dsornbor(at)aol.com> |
Try at a similar strip some where else.If you can get 500fpm of climb and land
and stop and takeoff in 300' 40 times in a row go for it.If not drive 4 miles
and only build your Piet once.Dave
--------
Covering Piet
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=323721#323721
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: runway length? |
Kip,
Not to rain on your parade, but after thinking about it a little, I'm
not sure you have enough room unless you can clear both approaches of
obstacles.
I have attached Google map images of the runway I fly from. There is
a 50 foot tree to the side of the runway that I can consistently be
above by several feet on take off. Using Google's nifty distance
measurement tool, I find that it takes about 1100 feet horizontal
vector to be above that tree comfortably. I have attached images of
what ~650 feet (your runway length), 950 feet (the average of your
runway length and your estimates of the length to the trees), and
~1100 feet look like. Sort of sobering...
50 feet is pretty tall. Are you sure that the trees at the end of
your runway are that tall?
Jeff
>
>
>Everyone,
>
>I just signed a contract on an 18 acre farm in NE Ohio - life is
>good. There is the potential for a 600-650' (9/27 orientation)
>grass runway along one edge of the primary field. To the west there
>are 40-50' trees about 300-350' from the possible runway end. To
>the east, there are no obstructions for about 400', and then none
>over 25' beyond that. 75'-plus hill immediately to the
>south-southeast of the possible runway location, creek bottom to the
>north.
>
>My question is, is this enough room to get a Piet in and out? I'll
>be using a Corvair for power, I weigh 150 fully dressed & I'm
>seriously considering the Riblett 612 airfoil for the additional
>lift.
>
>I'd also mention that there is a private field with available hangar
>space (Minerva, Ohio) about 4 miles away, but I'd like the option of
>keeping the plane at the farm.
>
>Comments?
>
>Thanks!
>
>Kip Gardner
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: runway length? |
| From: | "Pieti Lowell" <Lowellcfrank(at)yahoo.com> |
Kip.
For those of you that knew Allen Rudolf and his farm landing strip, I will be saying
things that you know, But his strip was North and South about 700 Ft. before
he lengthened it to accommodate his 172. He cut the trees at the end of the
strip to clear 10' on each wing tip.
I flew his Ford A with no problem, also flew my clipped wing 4412 Piet with an
85 HP Cont,my Ford A , Werner 145 . Lambert. B Ford first with a Piet wing then
with 612 wing. many times with passengers, The last landing in Allens field
was after he had passed away and I was showing a passenger a possible purchase
that I had in mind, When I arrived the runways were freshly plowed and not to
be deterred We landed on the plowed surface, and found that it took full throttle
to taxi , needless to say it took a bean field to take off,
By the way his barn had a 12 X 12 vertical hinged at the top at th sliding doors
and pulled up out of the way to get his Piet in and out , it worked great, Pieti
Lowell
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=323726#323726
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: New Stewart Systems, Hanger 21 Covering system |
| From: | hvandervoo(at)aol.com |
I have used Polyfiber on the Pietenpol
But next projet will most likely be stewart systems.
Hans
NX 15kV
-----Original Message-----
From: dnboyd1 <dnboyd1(at)comcast.net>
Sent: Fri, Dec 17, 2010 3:45 pm
Subject: Pietenpol-List: New Stewart Systems, Hanger 21 Covering system
Getting ready to start covering.... Has anyone any experience with the new
Stewart Systems, from Hanger 21?
It is non toxic, no chemicals, etc. and you can work indoors.
Dave Boyd
Champaign, IL
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
-=3D
-=3D -- Please Support Your Lists This Month --
-=3D (And Get Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!)
-=3D
-=3D November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Click on
-=3D the Contribution link below to find out more about
-=3D this year's Terrific Free Incentive Gifts provided
-=3D by:
-=3D
-=3D * AeroElectric www.aeroelectric.com
-=3D * The Builder's Bookstore www.buildersbooks.com
-=3D * HomebuiltHELP www.homebuilthelp.com
-=3D
-=3D List Contribution Web Site:
-=3D
-=3D --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
-=3D
-=3D Thank you for your generous support!
-=3D
-=3D -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
-=3D
-=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D
-=3D - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum -
-=3D Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
-=3D the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
-=3D Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
-=3D Photoshare, and much much more:
-=3D
-=3D --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
-=3D
-=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D
-=3D - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
-=3D Same great content also available via the Web Forums!
-=3D
-=3D --> http://forums.matronics.com
-=3D
-=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: firewall size |
| From: | hvandervoo(at)aol.com |
Oh well, if it is titanium than by all means.
You will be the first
Hans
NX15KV
-----Original Message-----
From: GliderMike <glidermikeg(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Fri, Dec 17, 2010 5:38 pm
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: firewall size
It was free to me. I think it is the same titanium used as a fire resistan
t
nclosure around the APU's in the Bombardier CRJ 200's 50 place regional
irliner we fly. Except there is no paperwork to trace this piece back to t
he
ine the ore came from, so the company can't use it on any of its airplanes.
--------
OMEBUILDER
ill WORK for Spruce
ong flights, smooth air, and soft landings,
liderMike, aka Mike Glasgow
ead this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=323715#323715
-
-= -- Please Support Your Lists This Month --
-= (And Get Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!)
-
-= November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Click on
-= the Contribution link below to find out more about
-= this year's Terrific Free Incentive Gifts provided
-= by:
-=
-= * AeroElectric www.aeroelectric.com
-= * The Builder's Bookstore www.buildersbooks.com
-= * HomebuiltHELP www.homebuilthelp.com
-
-= List Contribution Web Site:
-
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
-
-= Thank you for your generous support!
-
-= -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
-
-========================
-= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum -
-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
-= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
-= Photoshare, and much much more:
-
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
-
-========================
-= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
-= Same great content also available via the Web Forums!
-
-= --> http://forums.matronics.com
-
-========================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeff E." <jeff(at)ereksonfamily.org> |
| Subject: | Re: New Stewart Systems, Hanger 21 Covering system |
A friend of mine just finished a Rans using the Stewart system. This is
his 3rd airplane. He is a perfectionist and his plane is flawless (or at
least looks that way). He used Stits on the first 2 and said that the
Stewart system has a learning curve, especially on the paint. He hated
it and won't ever use it again.
However, it turned out great and the plane looks like a show stopper.
----- Original Message -----
From: Rick Holland
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, December 17, 2010 4:17 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: New Stewart Systems, Hanger 21 Covering
system
Ecobond is great for gluing on the fabric, no smell and more forgiving
than PolyTac.
On Fri, Dec 17, 2010 at 2:43 PM, wrote:
Getting ready to start covering.... Has anyone any experience with
the new Stewart Systems, from Hanger 21?
It is non toxic, no chemicals, etc. and you can work indoors.
Dave Boyd
Champaign, IL
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
Regards,
Jeff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Doug Dever <chiefpepperhead(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Covering question |
Kerri-Ann Price sells plans foar a no gap design her web site is:
http://sites.google.com/site/pietenpolplanpackages/pietenpol-plan-packages/
suppemental-plan-packages
Doug Dever
In beautiful Stow Ohio
From: cncampbell(at)windstream.net
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Covering question
Date: Thu=2C 16 Dec 2010 10:57:00 -0500
I was planning to cover the gap with a strip of aluminum. That could also
be the ground plane for a VHF antenna if you planning on having a radio.
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Birke
Sent: Thursday=2C December 16=2C 2010 10:03 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Covering question
We are building an air camper with a three piece wing. according to the pla
ns=2C there is a 2-3/8" gap between the wing panel butt rib and the center
section butt rib. Since this is the separation point between the two panels
=2C what is done with this gap when covering the wing? We don't see any way
of supporting the covering at the butt end of the center section.
Thanks=2C
Jim Birke
Ira G. Ross Aerospace museum
Restoration facility
Niagara Falls N.Y.
href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chr
ef="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matroni
cs.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Clif Dawson" <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> |
Does anyone recognize this?
Clif
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: New Stewart Systems, Hanger 21 Covering system |
| From: | "Dangerous Dave" <dsornbor(at)aol.com> |
I am covering with Stewarts and Ceconite 101.I anticipate no problems.Purchased
their DVD pack and watched it all a couple of times,Have talked with Doug and
Dan and they are very helpful.I have inhaled enough Poly poison Rand o caine
to last a lifetime.Dave
--------
Covering Piet
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=323738#323738
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Please report in |
| From: | helspersew(at)aol.com |
Yes Mike, everything counts, if you are a member (in good standing) of this
list. Looking forward to meeting your acquaintance.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
-----Original Message-----
From: GliderMike
Sent: Fri, Dec 17, 2010 9:04 am
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Please report in
I plan to be at Brodhead for the first time! Does that count for anything,
even
if I drive a car up there?
--------
HOMEBUILDER
Will WORK for Spruce
Long flights, smooth air, and soft landings,
GliderMike, aka Mike Glasgow
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=323651#323651
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> |
Looks awful busy to me. Can't figure what all those instruments are for.
He must have figured on going inadvertant IFR at some point.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Clif Dawson" <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Sent: Saturday, December 18, 2010 3:48 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: dash
> Does anyone recognize this?
>
> Clif
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: New Stewart Systems, Hanger 21 Covering system |
| From: | helspersew(at)aol.com |
Hi Dave,
I used the Stewart System, and would highly recommend it. It is heavenly ju
st to walk over to your utility sink and clean up with only hot water. Thin
k of how many times you would typically need to spray solvent through gun p
arts etc. YUK! The SS glue is great stuff to work with. One thing though, t
he room temperature needs to be warm (70+) otherwise you will be frustrated
with the pace. Initially tried to start in by cold basement and gave up. T
he glue depends on evaporation.
I am now in the process of hand-painting my logo on the side of the fuze. I
had a fuel leak previously and dribbles of gasoline were slowly making the
ir run down my fuselage finished paint job. When I discovered it I set to w
ork at stain removal with Dirtex (common store-bought cleaner). I was very
worried, as I continued to rub and rub pretty hard to get it clean. I am ve
ry impressed at how the SS paint holds up to that type of punishment. Also,
if your final color coat will be a light color (white, yellow etc.) the un
derlying primer must be white, with VERY LITTLE of the "silver" showing thr
ough. The color coats are great, but thin, and do not cover dark underlying
spots very well. Also, the Stewarts are very good at tech support and call
back without fail.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
-----Original Message-----
From: dnboyd1 <dnboyd1(at)comcast.net>
Sent: Fri, Dec 17, 2010 3:45 pm
Subject: Pietenpol-List: New Stewart Systems, Hanger 21 Covering system
Getting ready to start covering.... Has anyone any experience with the new
Stewart Systems, from Hanger 21?
It is non toxic, no chemicals, etc. and you can work indoors.
Dave Boyd
Champaign, IL
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
-=3D
-=3D -- Please Support Your Lists This Month --
-=3D (And Get Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!)
-=3D
-=3D November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Click on
-=3D the Contribution link below to find out more about
-=3D this year's Terrific Free Incentive Gifts provided
-=3D by:
-=3D
-=3D * AeroElectric www.aeroelectric.com
-=3D * The Builder's Bookstore www.buildersbooks.com
-=3D * HomebuiltHELP www.homebuilthelp.com
-=3D
-=3D List Contribution Web Site:
-=3D
-=3D --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
-=3D
-=3D Thank you for your generous support!
-=3D
-=3D -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
-=3D
-=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D
-=3D - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum -
-=3D Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
-=3D the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
-=3D Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
-=3D Photoshare, and much much more:
-=3D
-=3D --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
-=3D
-=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D
-=3D - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
-=3D Same great content also available via the Web Forums!
-=3D
-=3D --> http://forums.matronics.com
-=3D
-=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Please report in |
Dan and the rest, you're all just a bunch of children. I have a son and
daughter (twins) who are older than any of you!
----- Original Message -----
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, December 18, 2010 8:18 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Please report in
Yes Mike, everything counts, if you are a member (in good standing) of
this list. Looking forward to meeting your acquaintance.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
-----Original Message-----
From: GliderMike
To: pietenpol-list
Sent: Fri, Dec 17, 2010 9:04 am
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Please report in
I plan to be at Brodhead for the first time! Does that count for
anything, even
if I drive a car up there?
--------
HOMEBUILDER
Will WORK for Spruce
Long flights, smooth air, and soft landings,
GliderMike, aka Mike Glasgow
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=323651#323651
==========
==========
==========
==========
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Please report in |
| From: | "Pieti Lowell" <Lowellcfrank(at)yahoo.com> |
30 again is nice--:: --- 40 again is nicer,
pieti lowell
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=323744#323744
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "pineymb" <airltd(at)mts.net> |
Chuck
What I am referring to as the nose cone is the front most section of the engine
cowl. Your reference to "rabbit ears" is whats commonly known as Cub style "eyebrows"
which are shown in the attachment.
Thanks to all for your feedback and it appears that a cutout in the nose cone is
not required.
--------
Adrian M
Winnipeg, MB
Canada
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=323745#323745
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Harvey Rule <harvey.rule(at)bell.net> |
Looks like the cockpit of an F104.Do you ever notice deviation on your comp
ass due to the proximity of the GPS?
Or interferance on your radio due to the proximity of the GPS?I had my radi
o antenia about 3 ft away from my GPS antenia and when the GPS was on you c
ouldn't here anything but hash from the radio.
> From: CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: dash
> Date: Sat=2C 18 Dec 2010 00:48:47 -0800
>
> Does anyone recognize this?
>
> Clif
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> |
| Subject: | Re: New Stewart Systems, Hanger 21 Covering system |
Dan, I was very surprised to see that the Stewart company is in Cashmere
Washington. Several years ago I was restoring a PA22 and turning it
into a taildragger, PA20. A fellow, Doug Stewart, in Cashmere had
already been through the same problems I was having and he helped me a
lot in my restoration. Mary and I met Doug and Rava at a short-wing
Piper club annual flyin in Michigan and got to know them fairly well.
Later Mary and I were on a round-the-country trek in our truck and
trailer and passed through Cashmere and visited with Doug and Rava. Of
course, we went flying in his PA20 both times we met. Cashmere is not
big enough to have two unrelated Stewart families so the Stewart company
almost has to be his family. Do you know the background of the company
and whether it's Doug or maybe a son who started it? I would like to
call Doug but would really like to find out if it is his family's
business before I call. Thanks, Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, December 18, 2010 8:40 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: New Stewart Systems, Hanger 21 Covering
system
Hi Dave,
I used the Stewart System, and would highly recommend it. It is
heavenly just to walk over to your utility sink and clean up with only
hot water. Think of how many times you would typically need to spray
solvent through gun parts etc. YUK! The SS glue is great stuff to work
with. One thing though, the room temperature needs to be warm (70+)
otherwise you will be frustrated with the pace. Initially tried to start
in by cold basement and gave up. The glue depends on evaporation.
I am now in the process of hand-painting my logo on the side of the
fuze. I had a fuel leak previously and dribbles of gasoline were slowly
making their run down my fuselage finished paint job. When I discovered
it I set to work at stain removal with Dirtex (common store-bought
cleaner). I was very worried, as I continued to rub and rub pretty hard
to get it clean. I am very impressed at how the SS paint holds up to
that type of punishment. Also, if your final color coat will be a light
color (white, yellow etc.) the underlying primer must be white, with
VERY LITTLE of the "silver" showing through. The color coats are great,
but thin, and do not cover dark underlying spots very well. Also, the
Stewarts are very good at tech support and call back without fail.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
-----Original Message-----
From: dnboyd1 <dnboyd1(at)comcast.net>
To: pietenpol-list
Sent: Fri, Dec 17, 2010 3:45 pm
Subject: Pietenpol-List: New Stewart Systems, Hanger 21 Covering
system
Getting ready to start covering.... Has anyone any experience with
the new Stewart Systems, from Hanger 21?
It is non toxic, no chemicals, etc. and you can work indoors.
Dave Boyd
Champaign, IL
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ben Charvet <bencharvet(at)gmail.com> |
On 12/18/2010 3:48 AM, Clif Dawson wrote:
> Does anyone recognize this?
>
> Clif
looks like one of the "Big Piets" to me.
Ben
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jerry Dotson" <jdotson(at)centurylink.net> |
I did a search of my Piet pictures and pretty certain it is this one. I copied
the data from airport-data.com/manuf/Pietenpol.html
C-GFCU 1982 Pietenpol PIETENPOL AIRCAMPER GN 1 198 1 Ontario, Canada
--------
Jerry Dotson
59 Daniel Johnson Rd
Baker, FL 32531
Started building NX510JD July, 2009
wing, tailfeathers done
using Lycoming O-235
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=323756#323756
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/gn1_c_gfcu_right_195.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: runway length? |
| From: | "Jerry Dotson" <jdotson(at)centurylink.net> |
Just adding some small picture of my runway from above. The other is on short
final ............ looking toward that *&%#& power line. All your ducks have to
be lined up all in a row. I apologize for the dirty windshield. I didn't realize
it was dirty until viewing the pictures.
--------
Jerry Dotson
59 Daniel Johnson Rd
Baker, FL 32531
Started building NX510JD July, 2009
wing, tailfeathers done
using Lycoming O-235
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=323761#323761
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/my_runway_on_short_final_104.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/my_runway_630.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca> |
I'd say that Jerry nailed it.
If you look at the fire extinguisher, you can see the call letters GFCU, which
match the photo that Jerry posted.
Bill C
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=323762#323762
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com> |
Wikipedia concurs... :P
Ryan
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:PIETENPOL_AIRCAMPER_GN_1_C-GFCU_instrument_panel.JPG
On Sat, Dec 18, 2010 at 9:55 AM, Bill Church wrote:
> billspiet(at)sympatico.ca>
>
> I'd say that Jerry nailed it.
> If you look at the fire extinguisher, you can see the call letters GFCU,
> which match the photo that Jerry posted.
>
> Bill C
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=323762#323762
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com> |
Woops, just found this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:PietenpolAirCamperGN1.JPG
On Sat, Dec 18, 2010 at 10:07 AM, Ryan Mueller wrote:
> Wikipedia concurs... :P
>
> Ryan
>
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:PIETENPOL_AIRCAMPER_GN_1_C-GFCU_instrument_panel.JPG
>
>
> On Sat, Dec 18, 2010 at 9:55 AM, Bill Church wrote:
>
>> billspiet(at)sympatico.ca>
>>
>> I'd say that Jerry nailed it.
>> If you look at the fire extinguisher, you can see the call letters GFCU,
>> which match the photo that Jerry posted.
>>
>> Bill C
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=323762#323762
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: New Stewart Systems, Hanger 21 Covering system |
| From: | helspersew(at)aol.com |
Hi Chuck,
There is one easy way to find out. Look at all the Youtube videos the two o
f them have put out and you will see them in person. http://www.youtube.c
om/watch?v=rl9I3FOA6Bc
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
-----Original Message-----
From: Charles Campbell <cncampbell(at)windstream.net>
Sent: Sat, Dec 18, 2010 9:24 am
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: New Stewart Systems, Hanger 21 Covering system
Dan, I was very surprised to see that the Stewart company is in Cashmere Wa
shington. Several years ago I was restoring a PA22 and turning it into a t
aildragger, PA20. A fellow, Doug Stewart, in Cashmere had already been thr
ough the same problems I was having and he helped me a lot in my restoratio
n. Mary and I met Doug and Rava at a short-wing Piper club annual flyin in
Michigan and got to know them fairly well. Later Mary and I were on a rou
nd-the-country trek in our truck and trailer and passed through Cashmere an
d visited with Doug and Rava. Of course, we went flying in his PA20 both t
imes we met. Cashmere is not big enough to have two unrelated Stewart fami
lies so the Stewart company almost has to be his family. Do you know the b
ackground of the company and whether it's Doug or maybe a son who started i
t? I would like to call Doug but would really like to find out if it is hi
s family's business before I call. Thanks, Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
Sent: Saturday, December 18, 2010 8:40 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: New Stewart Systems, Hanger 21 Covering system
Hi Dave,
I used the Stewart System, and would highly recommend it. It is heavenly ju
st to walk over to your utility sink and clean up with only hot water. Thin
k of how many times you would typically need to spray solvent through gun p
arts etc. YUK! The SS glue is great stuff to work with. One thing though, t
he room temperature needs to be warm (70+) otherwise you will be frustrated
with the pace. Initially tried to start in by cold basement and gave up. T
he glue depends on evaporation.
I am now in the process of hand-painting my logo on the side of the fuze. I
had a fuel leak previously and dribbles of gasoline were slowly making the
ir run down my fuselage finished paint job. When I discovered it I set to w
ork at stain removal with Dirtex (common store-bought cleaner). I was very
worried, as I continued to rub and rub pretty hard to get it clean. I am ve
ry impressed at how the SS paint holds up to that type of punishment. Also,
if your final color coat will be a light color (white, yellow etc.) the un
derlying primer must be white, with VERY LITTLE of the "silver" showing thr
ough. The color coats are great, but thin, and do not cover dark underlying
spots very well. Also, the Stewarts are very good at tech support and call
back without fail.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
-----Original Message-----
From: dnboyd1 <dnboyd1(at)comcast.net>
Sent: Fri, Dec 17, 2010 3:45 pm
Subject: Pietenpol-List: New Stewart Systems, Hanger 21 Covering system
Getting ready to start covering.... Has anyone any experience with the new
Stewart Systems, from Hanger 21?
It is non toxic, no chemicals, etc. and you can work indoors.
Dave Boyd
Champaign, IL
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
ref="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
ref="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
ref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chre
f="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
ref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
-
-= -- Please Support Your Lists This Month --
-= (And Get Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!)
-
-= November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Click on
-= the Contribution link below to find out more about
-= this year's Terrific Free Incentive Gifts provided
-= by:
-
-= * AeroElectric www.aeroelectric.com
-= * The Builder's Bookstore www.buildersbooks.com
-= * HomebuiltHELP www.homebuilthelp.com
-
-= List Contribution Web Site:
-
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
-
-= Thank you for your generous support!
-
-= -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
-
-========================
-= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum -
-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
-= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
-= Photoshare, and much much more:
-
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
-
-========================
-= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
-= Same great content also available via the Web Forums!
-
-= --> http://forums.matronics.com
-
-========================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jerry Dotson" <jdotson(at)centurylink.net> |
I collect anything Pietenpol and I have another picture of it from the left. It
appears it was at a fly-in on this one.
--------
Jerry Dotson
59 Daniel Johnson Rd
Baker, FL 32531
Started building NX510JD July, 2009
wing, tailfeathers done
using Lycoming O-235
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=323771#323771
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/gn1_c_gfcu_left_516.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: New Stewart Systems, Hanger 21 Covering system |
| From: | Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
I have worked with EcoBond at temps as low as 60 with no problem but I live
in Colorado where the humidity is low with aids evaporation.
On Sat, Dec 18, 2010 at 6:40 AM, wrote:
> Hi Dave,
>
> I used the Stewart System, and would highly recommend it. It is heavenly
> just to walk over to your utility sink and clean up with only hot water.
> Think of how many times you would typically need to spray solvent through
> gun parts etc. YUK! The SS glue is great stuff to work with. One thing
> though, the room temperature needs to be warm (70+) otherwise you will be
> frustrated with the pace. Initially tried to start in by cold basement and
> gave up. The glue depends on evaporation.
> I am now in the process of hand-painting my logo on the side of the fuze. I
> had a fuel leak previously and dribbles of gasoline were slowly making their
> run down my fuselage finished paint job. When I discovered it I set to work
> at stain removal with Dirtex (common store-bought cleaner). I was very
> worried, as I continued to rub and rub pretty hard to get it clean. I am
> very impressed at how the SS paint holds up to that type of punishment.
> Also, if your final color coat will be a light color (white, yellow etc.)
> the underlying primer must be white, with VERY LITTLE of the "silver"
> showing through. The color coats are great, but thin, and do not cover dark
> underlying spots very well. Also, the Stewarts are very good at tech support
> and call back without fail.
>
> Dan Helsper
> Poplar Grove, IL.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dnboyd1 <dnboyd1(at)comcast.net>
> To: pietenpol-list
> Sent: Fri, Dec 17, 2010 3:45 pm
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: New Stewart Systems, Hanger 21 Covering system
>
> Getting ready to start covering.... Has anyone any experience with the
> new Stewart Systems, from Hanger 21?
> It is non toxic, no chemicals, etc. and you can work indoors.
> Dave Boyd
> Champaign, IL
>
> *
>
> 3D============================================
> 3D============================================
> 3D============================================
> 3D=======================================*
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Clif Dawson" <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> |
OK, got it.
http://wwwapps2.tc.gc.ca/Saf-Sec-Sur/2/ccarcs/aspscripts/en/current.asp
When this photo was sent to me, via New Zealand of all
places, I was struck by all that "stuff" in the thing. Since
it appears to have been built by a club I'm wondering if
the "commitee effect" got the better of them. :-)
Also look at the green arc on the airspeed!
Clif
"Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more
to add, but when there is nothing left to take away."
Antoine de Saint-Exupery
> If you look at the fire extinguisher, you can see the call letters GFCU,
> which match the photo that Jerry posted.
>
> Bill C
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Clif Dawson" <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Please report in |
And just how did you get to be so old O ancient and
venerable one? :-)
Clif
"Here is a test to find whether your mission on earth is finished: If
you are alive, it isn't."
~ Richard Bach
From: Charles Campbell
Dan and the rest, you're all just a bunch of children. I have a son
and daughter (twins) who are older than any of you!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Schreiber" <lmforge(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: New Stewart Systems, Hanger 21 Covering system |
Chuck:
I also am a member of the Short Wing Piper Club, a member of the Michigan chapter and fly a PA 22. You are correct about who is behind the Stewart System Co. It is the same Doug and Rava Stewart and Doug's brother Dan. It is my understanding that the Stewarts bought out the old AFS system and improved upon it, especially the top coat system. Here is a link to the info on the old AFS system http://www.challengers101.com/WingCovering1.html
and to the Stewarts site http://www.stewartsystems.aero/
I am finishing up my Pietenpol and will probably cover it this spring or summer.
I definitely plan on using the Stewart System for covering.
Rick Schreiber
Valparaiso IN
----- Original Message -----
From: Charles Campbell
Sent: 12/18/2010 9:26:53 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: New Stewart Systems, Hanger 21 Covering system
Dan, I was very surprised to see that the Stewart company is in Cashmere Washington.
Several years ago I was restoring a PA22 and turning it into a taildragger,
PA20. A fellow, Doug Stewart, in Cashmere had already been through the same
problems I was having and he helped me a lot in my restoration. Mary and
I met Doug and Rava at a short-wing Piper club annual flyin in Michigan and got
to know them fairly well. Later Mary and I were on a round-the-country trek
in our truck and trailer and passed through Cashmere and visited with Doug and
Rava. Of course, we went flying in his PA20 both times we met. Cashmere is
not big enough to have two unrelated Stewart families so the Stewart company
almost has to be his family. Do you know the background of the company and whether
it's Doug or maybe a son who started it? I would like to call Doug but
would really like to find out if it is his family's business before I call. Thanks,
Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
Sent: Saturday, December 18, 2010 8:40 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: New Stewart Systems, Hanger 21 Covering system
Hi Dave,
I used the Stewart System, and would highly recommend it. It is heavenly just to
walk over to your utility sink and clean up with only hot water. Think of how
many times you would typically need to spray solvent through gun parts etc.
YUK! The SS glue is great stuff to work with. One thing though, the room temperature
needs to be warm (70+) otherwise you will be frustrated with the pace.
Initially tried to start in by cold basement and gave up. The glue depends on
evaporation.
I am now in the process of hand-painting my logo on the side of the fuze. I had
a fuel leak previously and dribbles of gasoline were slowly making their run
down my fuselage finished paint job. When I discovered it I set to work at stain
removal with Dirtex (common store-bought cleaner). I was very worried, as I
continued to rub and rub pretty hard to get it clean. I am very impressed at
how the SS paint holds up to that type of punishment. Also, if your final color
coat will be a light color (white, yellow etc.) the underlying primer must be
white, with VERY LITTLE of the "silver" showing through. The color coats are
great, but thin, and do not cover dark underlying spots very well. Also, the
Stewarts are very good at tech support and call back without fail.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
-----Original Message-----
From: dnboyd1 <dnboyd1(at)comcast.net>
Sent: Fri, Dec 17, 2010 3:45 pm
Subject: Pietenpol-List: New Stewart Systems, Hanger 21 Covering system
Getting ready to start covering.... Has anyone any experience with the new Stewart
Systems, from Hanger 21?
It is non toxic, no chemicals, etc. and you can work indoors.
Dave Boyd
Champaign, IL
3D============================================
3D============================================
3D============================================
3D======================================
href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: TIG inverter welder? |
| From: | "aussiegeorge" <avionixoz(at)yahoo.com> |
HI All I bought a CT 316 three in one combo welder. In australia it will run on
a 15 amp 240 V outlet. I have had it for about two years and it has been a beautiful
machine.
I have not yet tig welded with it. Arc and plasma are as advertized. It uses really
cheap consumeables and torches.
I hacked up an old shopping cart to hold all the stuff. It needs compressed air
for the plasma cutting so a small el cheapo compressor sits at the bottom. You
need argon for tig welding. I installed an eastman three way valve to switch
between argon and compressed air. You need a drawer to keep the little stuff
in. Mine is a plastic affair. I put a wooden top on it to hold the goggles welding
helmet , face shield and ear muffs. Plasma cutting is very noisy. Still to
come is a small 4 inch grinder for the tungstens. Can't seem to find a 240 v
one of those. There are lots of hooks to hold the various leads.
I notice that ebay has some very nice combo units that have foot pedals. The foot
pedal is a really good thing for both plasma cutting and tig welding.
Buy the book Performance welding. The guy is easy to read and completely correct
in what he says 99.9 percent.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=323785#323785
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: TIG inverter welder? |
| From: | "Dangerous Dave" <dsornbor(at)aol.com> |
I also have a CAT 316.Works great but its DC so aluminum is out have to use my
Miller econotig for that.
--------
Covering Piet
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=323787#323787
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: TIG inverter welder? |
| From: | "Jerry Dotson" <jdotson(at)centurylink.net> |
I have an old Miller GoldStar 330 that I bought in 1980 for around $3000. I used
it today. It is 30 years old but can still out perform me! It takes up a lot
of space...about 24W x 30L X 40 H. Little water cooled torch is nice to get in
close places. It does stick rods too. Max output is 435 amps.
--------
Jerry Dotson
59 Daniel Johnson Rd
Baker, FL 32531
Started building NX510JD July, 2009
wing, tailfeathers done
using Lycoming O-235
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=323788#323788
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Please report in |
| From: | "Pieti Lowell" <Lowellcfrank(at)yahoo.com> |
pick your parents wisely
Pieti lowell
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=323790#323790
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 8 hours and counting down buildapalooza motivational |
speach
| From: | "bender" <jfaith(at)solairusaviation.com> |
a friend came by the hangar today... liked the piet so far.. asked about the bag
full of wood shavings.. then i explained my building, and why my right shoulder
has been sore.
i rip each piece of wood with my 100 year old band saw.... the lay each piece,
ribstock or longeron, or any other piece of wood on the bench and grab my block
plane... 3 strokes removes the saw marks and that bag of shavings is every stroke
i've made
this plane is hand made
jeff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=323795#323795
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Please report in |
By just hanging in there!!!
----- Original Message -----
From: Clif Dawson
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, December 18, 2010 4:55 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Please report in
And just how did you get to be so old O ancient and
venerable one? :-)
Clif
"Here is a test to find whether your mission on earth is finished: If
you are alive, it isn't."
~ Richard Bach
From: Charles Campbell
Dan and the rest, you're all just a bunch of children. I have a son
and daughter (twins) who are older than any of you!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack" <jack(at)textors.com> |
| Subject: | Lower motor mount straps |
The plans and supplemental plans show 2 different full sized drawings for
the lower motor mount straps. Neither seems to fit the application well.
It also appears to mount the inside straps you need to cut away a couple of
inches of the lower crosspiece on each end. Not real comfortable with that.
Could others share how they dealt with this part of building?
Thanks,
Jack
Jack Textor
29 SW 58th Drive
Des Moines, IA 50312
www.textors.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jimisown(at)aol.com |
I'm new to the list and while I've been an A and P for 20+ years, I have n
ever built my own plane nor am I a pilot (yet). Are there any builders in t
he Norfolk, Virginia area?
Fr. Jim Lingenfelter
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Lower motor mount straps |
Lower motor mount strapsI'm using the motor mounts designed for the GN
1. I'll send you copies of my drawings if you want them. I felt the
same way you do about having to cut the cross pieces. My mounts are
completely outside the wood structure. Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: Jack
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2010 3:04 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Lower motor mount straps
The plans and supplemental plans show 2 different full sized drawings
for the lower motor mount straps. Neither seems to fit the application
well. It also appears to mount the inside straps you need to cut away a
couple of inches of the lower crosspiece on each end. Not real
comfortable with that. Could others share how they dealt with this part
of building?
Thanks,
Jack
Jack Textor
29 SW 58th Drive
Des Moines, IA 50312
www.textors.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Boyer <boyerjrb(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Lower motor mount straps |
Hi Jack,
I blocked in the area just above the lower longeron and moved the lower motor mounts
up one inch so I would not have to cut the cross brace. Worked fine.
Cheers,
Jim
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jack" <jack(at)textors.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2010 12:04:47 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Lower motor mount straps
The plans and supplemental plans show 2 different full sized drawings for
the lower motor mount straps. Neither seems to fit the application well.
It also appears to mount the inside straps you need to cut away a couple of
inches of the lower crosspiece on each end. Not real comfortable with that.
Could others share how they dealt with this part of building?
Thanks,
Jack
Jack Textor
29 SW 58th Drive
Des Moines, IA 50312
www.textors.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Lower motor mount straps |
| From: | "Ryan Mueller" <rmueller23(at)gmail.com> |
Waiting for a flight, no plans in front of me so goin
g from memory, but I'm pretty sure cutting a slot in
the cross piece is just how you have to do it. That's
how it is on ours, no issues. If I recall that's h
ow most Piets are...
Ryan
Ryan Mueller
-----Original Message-----
From: "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net>
Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2010 16:53:38
Lower motor mount straps
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Lower motor mount straps |
| From: | Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
With that big slab of 1/4" floor plywood glued to the lower longerons the
bottom cross brace does not need to contact the longerons, just the floor
and firewall.
On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 1:04 PM, Jack wrote:
> The plans and supplemental plans show 2 different full sized drawings for
> the lower motor mount straps. Neither seems to fit the application well.
> It also appears to mount the inside straps you need to cut away a couple
> of inches of the lower crosspiece on each end. Not real comfortable with
> that. Could others share how they dealt with this part of building?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jack
>
> Jack Textor
>
> 29 SW 58th Drive
>
> Des Moines, IA 50312
>
> www.textors.com
>
> *
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jerry Dotson" <jdotson(at)centurylink.net> |
Let me be the first to welcome you to the Pietenpol list. You will find a great
bunch of builders and flyers here. Building can be very rewarding. Lots of experience
here too. We range in age from 13 to somewhere around 80.
--------
Jerry Dotson
59 Daniel Johnson Rd
Baker, FL 32531
Started building NX510JD July, 2009
wing, tailfeathers done
using Lycoming O-235
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=323848#323848
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Lower motor mount straps |
Wish I had thought of that!!! Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Boyer" <boyerjrb(at)comcast.net>
Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2010 5:08 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Lower motor mount straps
>
> Hi Jack,
> I blocked in the area just above the lower longeron and moved the lower
> motor mounts up one inch so I would not have to cut the cross brace.
> Worked fine.
> Cheers,
> Jim
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jack" <jack(at)textors.com>
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2010 12:04:47 PM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Lower motor mount straps
>
> The plans and supplemental plans show 2 different full sized drawings for
> the lower motor mount straps. Neither seems to fit the application well.
> It also appears to mount the inside straps you need to cut away a couple
> of
> inches of the lower crosspiece on each end. Not real comfortable with
> that.
> Could others share how they dealt with this part of building?
> Thanks,
> Jack
>
> Jack Textor
> 29 SW 58th Drive
> Des Moines, IA 50312
> www.textors.com
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dangerous Dave" <dsornbor(at)aol.com> |
Howdy,Covering the wings.Stewart Systems working great!dave
--------
Covering Piet
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=323856#323856
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/2010_12_19_15_54_41_476_835.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/2010_12_19_15_54_21_598_184.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/2010_12_19_10_54_14_220_539.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <r.r.hall(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Do new or rebuilt engines come painted? |
I have someone trying to sell me an engine but the pictures they sent show the
cylinders and pushrod tubes painted black and the case painted grey. I am not
very familiar with new engines so was wondering if this is typical and would the
paint not being burned off mean it is very low time?
Rodney Hall
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | airlion <airlion(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Fw: Merry Christmas - had to share this one! |
I had to share this with everyone. Merry christmas ya'll. Cheers, Gardiner
----- Forwarded Message ----
From: Susan G. Mason <susangmason(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Fri, December 17, 2010 5:12:15 PM
Subject: Fw: Merry Christmas - had to share this one!
Saw this and thought of all of us dog lovers!!!
________________________________
Hope springs eternal - even for the dogs! Hope you can open this.
Merry Christmas!!!
> Click on the dog
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>______________________________________________________________________
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
02:34:00
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
Hi Jim,
I'm in Raleigh, NC - not too far away. My Pietenpol is based at Smith
Mountain Lake, VA (W91). Chuck Borsuk is also in the Raleigh area.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Raleigh, NC
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
jimisown(at)aol.com
Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2010 4:26 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: New to list
I'm new to the list and while I've been an A and P for 20+ years, I have
never built my own plane nor am I a pilot (yet). Are there any builders in
the Norfolk, Virginia area?
Fr. Jim Lingenfelter
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Do new or rebuilt engines come painted? |
You can't tell much from paint. My crankcase is black and my cylinders are
grey but the whole thing I rebuilt a little over 200 hours ago. If the pain
has burned off, something has overheated.
What kind of engine is it, and how much time does it have on it?
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "icarus Plummet"
Raleigh, NC
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
r.r.hall(at)cox.net
Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2010 6:16 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Do new or rebuilt engines come painted?
I have someone trying to sell me an engine but the pictures they sent show
the cylinders and pushrod tubes painted black and the case painted grey. I
am not very familiar with new engines so was wondering if this is typical
and would the paint not being burned off mean it is very low time?
Rodney Hall
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Lower motor mount straps |
Jack,
As others have said, the cross brace contributes little strength in that
area, as long as it is glued well to the floorbard and firewall plywood.
Just cut it to get it out of the way and give yourself room for the fitting
and its mounting bolts.
Good luck!
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Raleigh, NC
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack
Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2010 3:05 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Lower motor mount straps
The plans and supplemental plans show 2 different full sized drawings for
the lower motor mount straps. Neither seems to fit the application well.
It also appears to mount the inside straps you need to cut away a couple of
inches of the lower crosspiece on each end. Not real comfortable with that.
Could others share how they dealt with this part of building?
Thanks,
Jack
Jack Textor
29 SW 58th Drive
Des Moines, IA 50312
www.textors.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <r.r.hall(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Do new or rebuilt engines come painted? |
I wasn't sure if the paint would burn off or not. It is supposed to have a
bout 200 hours on it but I haven't seen the logbooks yet.
---- Jack Phillips wrote:
>
You can=99t tell much from paint.=C2- Mycrankcase is black and my c
ylinders are grey but the whole thing I rebuilt alittle over 200 hours ago.
=C2- If the pain has burned off, something hasoverheated.
=C2-
What kind of engine is it, and how muchtime does it have on it?
=C2-
Jack Phillips
NX899JP=C2- =9Cicarus Plummet=9D
Raleigh, NC
=C2-
From:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-
server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of r.r.hall(at)cox.net
Sent: Sunday, December 19, 20106:16 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Do new orrebuilt engines come painted?
=C2-
I have someone trying to sell me an engine but the pictures theysent show t
he cylinders and pushrod tubes painted black and the case paintedgrey. I am
not very familiar with new engines so was wondering if this istypical and
would the paint not being burned off mean it is very low time?
Rodney Hall h
ttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhttp://forums.matronics
.com| From: | "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Do new or rebuilt engines come painted? |
I once owned a Cessna 150 with a Continental O-200 on which I had to
have a major overhaul performed. It came back with a new paint job --
gold case and black cylinders. I don't know if it's common practice but
I suspect it is. Don't believe the paint would burn off the case.
Incidentally, it would have been better had the push rod tubes been
painted white to reflect some of the heat from the cylinders. Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: r.r.hall(at)cox.net
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2010 8:05 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Do new or rebuilt engines come painted?
I wasn't sure if the paint would burn off or not. It is supposed to
have a bout 200 hours on it but I haven't seen the logbooks yet.
---- Jack Phillips wrote:
>
You can=99t tell much from paint. Mycrankcase is black and my
cylinders are grey but the whole thing I rebuilt alittle over 200 hours
ago. If the pain has burned off, something hasoverheated.
What kind of engine is it, and how muchtime does it have on it?
Jack Phillips
NX899JP =9Cicarus Plummet=9D
Raleigh, NC
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com[mailto:owner-pietenpol-lis
t-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of r.r.hall(at)cox.net
Sent: Sunday, December 19, 20106:16 PM
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Do new orrebuilt engines come painted?
I have someone trying to sell me an engine but the pictures theysent
show the cylinders and pushrod tubes painted black and the case
paintedgrey. I am not very familiar with new engines so was wondering if
this istypical and would the paint not being burned off mean it is very
low time?
Rodney Hall
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
http://forums.matronics.com
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:> "Courier e>
size=2 color=black face="Courier New">http://www.matronic
--> http://forums.=================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Progress Pics |
Is that the 350-degree ironing? Pics are great. How did you fasten the
wing tip to the stand?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dangerous Dave" <dsornbor(at)aol.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2010 6:28 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Progress Pics
>
> Howdy,Covering the wings.Stewart Systems working great!dave
>
> --------
> Covering Piet
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=323856#323856
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/2010_12_19_15_54_41_476_835.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/2010_12_19_15_54_21_598_184.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/2010_12_19_10_54_14_220_539.jpg
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff wilson <jlwilsonnn(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Do new or rebuilt engines come painted? |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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "TOM STINEMETZE" <TOMS(at)mcpcity.com> |
Just in case there might be one or two of you on the list that like to
watch airplanes in flight - here is a link to the annual Duxford Airshow.
Sixteen, count them, 16 Spitfires in the air at the same time.
Stinemetze
http://www.airshows.org.uk/2010/airshows/duxford-battle-of-britain-airshow-
review.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Do new or rebuilt engines come painted? |
| From: | "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca> |
Call me ignorant, but why would anyone want to reflect the heat from the cylinders.
That would mean sending the heat back to the cylinders. Why would anyone
want to do that?
(I'm guessing that I've misunderstood what you were saying)
Bill C.
Chuck wrote:
"Incidentally, it would have been better had the push rod tubes been painted white
to reflect some of the heat from the cylinders."
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=323896#323896
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Woodflier(at)aol.com |
Jim, I'm in Lexington, VA - other side of the state but about 3 hours up
I-64. I'm almost done on my project but you're welcome to come visit any
time. Might be better once the snow melts and we can get down to the hangar
where the fuselage is right now but let me know.
Matt Paxton
_woodflier(at)aol.com_ (mailto:woodflier(at)aol.com)
------------------
Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2010 4:26 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: New to list
I'm new to the list and while I've been an A and P for 20+ years, I have
never built my own plane nor am I a pilot (yet). Are there any builders in
the Norfolk, Virginia area?
Fr. Jim Lingenfelter
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Progress Pics |
| From: | "Dangerous Dave" <dsornbor(at)aol.com> |
The ironing is at 250 the new iron wouldn't go hi enough,had to got to the thrift
store for an old one.I drilled in a 5/16 hole in the bow and put in a 1/4"
T nut fastened with 3 #4 stainless 1/2" screws.Works great.Took all of 1/2 an
hour to fab the stands and it beats doing it any other way.Dave
--------
Covering Piet
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=323900#323900
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Do new or rebuilt engines come painted? |
| From: | Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com> |
Bill,
It's a technique used on the Corvair conversions to mitigate the heating of
the oil that is returning to the crankcase from the cylinder heads via the
pushrod tubes. The tubes get plenty warm underneath the heads, especially
being so close to the exhaust stacks. Considering the Corvair already needs
an oil cooler, it certainly can't hurt.
You could do it on a small Continental, but it's not needed. A more "spread
out" design and plenty of cooling capacity when properly baffled makes
it unnecessary.
Ryan
On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 9:32 AM, Bill Church wrote:
> billspiet(at)sympatico.ca>
>
> Call me ignorant, but why would anyone want to reflect the heat from the
> cylinders. That would mean sending the heat back to the cylinders. Why would
> anyone want to do that?
> (I'm guessing that I've misunderstood what you were saying)
>
> Bill C.
>
> Chuck wrote:
>
> "Incidentally, it would have been better had the push rod tubes been
> painted white to reflect some of the heat from the cylinders."
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=323896#323896
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Progress Pics |
Tlhanks, This will go in MY archives. Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dangerous Dave" <dsornbor(at)aol.com>
Sent: Monday, December 20, 2010 11:01 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Progress Pics
>
> The ironing is at 250 the new iron wouldn't go hi enough,had to got to the
> thrift store for an old one.I drilled in a 5/16 hole in the bow and put in
> a 1/4" T nut fastened with 3 #4 stainless 1/2" screws.Works great.Took all
> of 1/2 an hour to fab the stands and it beats doing it any other way.Dave
>
> --------
> Covering Piet
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=323900#323900
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Do new or rebuilt engines come painted? |
I guess what I meant was it reflects heat away from the pushrods and
associated parts. William Wynne recommends coating the pushrod tubes with
white paint -- I've forgotten why but he's the engine guru.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca>
Sent: Monday, December 20, 2010 10:32 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Do new or rebuilt engines come painted?
>
>
> Call me ignorant, but why would anyone want to reflect the heat from the
> cylinders. That would mean sending the heat back to the cylinders. Why
> would anyone want to do that?
> (I'm guessing that I've misunderstood what you were saying)
>
> Bill C.
>
> Chuck wrote:
>
> "Incidentally, it would have been better had the push rod tubes been
> painted white to reflect some of the heat from the cylinders."
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=323896#323896
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Do new or rebuilt engines come painted? |
Bill, Ryan said it better that I did. I don't know from small Continentals
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca>
Sent: Monday, December 20, 2010 10:32 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Do new or rebuilt engines come painted?
>
>
> Call me ignorant, but why would anyone want to reflect the heat from the
> cylinders. That would mean sending the heat back to the cylinders. Why
> would anyone want to do that?
> (I'm guessing that I've misunderstood what you were saying)
>
> Bill C.
>
> Chuck wrote:
>
> "Incidentally, it would have been better had the push rod tubes been
> painted white to reflect some of the heat from the cylinders."
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=323896#323896
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Do new or rebuilt engines come painted? |
| From: | "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca> |
Okay, I get it. The reflecting you're referring to is AWAY from the pushrod tubes,
not necessarily back at the cylinders (even though that's where some of it
will go). So, paint the pushrod tubes white IF you're using a Corvair.
I know I've read about oil temperature issues with some Corvair installations,
so probably every little bit should help. Never heard of this idea for Continentals,
though. Like Ryan says, the configurations are different, with more clearance
on the Continentals.
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=323922#323922
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Do new or rebuilt engines come painted? |
Not necessary on real aircraft engines. Corvairs require all the help they
can get. :)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charles
Campbell
Sent: Monday, December 20, 2010 12:54 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Do new or rebuilt engines come painted?
I guess what I meant was it reflects heat away from the pushrods and
associated parts. William Wynne recommends coating the pushrod tubes with
white paint -- I've forgotten why but he's the engine guru.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca>
Sent: Monday, December 20, 2010 10:32 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Do new or rebuilt engines come painted?
>
>
> Call me ignorant, but why would anyone want to reflect the heat from the
> cylinders. That would mean sending the heat back to the cylinders. Why
> would anyone want to do that?
> (I'm guessing that I've misunderstood what you were saying)
>
> Bill C.
>
> Chuck wrote:
>
> "Incidentally, it would have been better had the push rod tubes been
> painted white to reflect some of the heat from the cylinders."
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=323896#323896
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <jeff(at)ereksonfamily.org> |
| Subject: | Pietenpols flying in or near =?UTF-8?Q?CT=3F? |
I'm new to the list, a lurker really. I'm looking at starting a
Pietenpol with the long fuselage, 3 part wing, C65 engine (or VW w/
redrive), more conventional J3 style gear, and a few more modern
components.
I'm moving to CT in 2 weeks to live for the next 2-3 years. Are there
any flying Piet's in that area? Anyone mind me coming by to gawk at
their plane and sit in it to see how it feels?
-Jeff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Don Heringhaus" <don.h(at)wcoil.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Do new or rebuilt engines come painted? |
He just never flew behine a good engine
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Soon will be building |
| From: | Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
Dan, you could always build a second Piet like Dick N. did. The best of both
worlds, one to fly and another to build.
rick
On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 5:32 AM, wrote:
> Hi Kelly,
>
> Even though I am done, I envy you in a lot of ways. Countless enjoyable
> hours of designing and building in front of you. Enjoy every minute of it
> rather than rush to get something done. I used my project to learn a great
> deal on a variety of subjects.
>
> Wishing all on this list a very blessed Christmas and Happy New Year ahead.
>
> Dan Helsper
> Poplar Grove, IL.
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Soon will be building |
| From: | Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
Dan, you could always build a second Piet like Dick N. did. The best of both
worlds, one to fly and another to build.
rick
On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 5:32 AM, wrote:
> Hi Kelly,
>
> Even though I am done, I envy you in a lot of ways. Countless enjoyable
> hours of designing and building in front of you. Enjoy every minute of it
> rather than rush to get something done. I used my project to learn a great
> deal on a variety of subjects.
>
> Wishing all on this list a very blessed Christmas and Happy New Year ahead.
>
> Dan Helsper
> Poplar Grove, IL.
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Soon will be building |
| From: | Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
Dan, you could always build a second Piet like Dick N. did. The best of both
worlds, one to fly and another to build.
rick
On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 5:32 AM, wrote:
> Hi Kelly,
>
> Even though I am done, I envy you in a lot of ways. Countless enjoyable
> hours of designing and building in front of you. Enjoy every minute of it
> rather than rush to get something done. I used my project to learn a great
> deal on a variety of subjects.
>
> Wishing all on this list a very blessed Christmas and Happy New Year ahead.
>
> Dan Helsper
> Poplar Grove, IL.
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Pietenpols flying in or near CT? |
Congratulations Jeff, and welcome to the wonderful world of Pietenpols. As
with every new Pietenpol builder, I strongly urge you to acquire the four
Tony Bingelis books from EAA. There you will find the answers to most of
your questions on how to build an airplane. The rest can be answered here.
Good luck. I like your engine choice (the Continental, not the VW. Car
engines should never get more than about 20" above the road.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Raleigh, NC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
jeff(at)ereksonfamily.org
Sent: Monday, December 20, 2010 3:27 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpols flying in or near CT?
I'm new to the list, a lurker really. I'm looking at starting a
Pietenpol with the long fuselage, 3 part wing, C65 engine (or VW w/
redrive), more conventional J3 style gear, and a few more modern
components.
I'm moving to CT in 2 weeks to live for the next 2-3 years. Are there
any flying Piet's in that area? Anyone mind me coming by to gawk at
their plane and sit in it to see how it feels?
-Jeff
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpols flying in or near CT? |
| From: | helspersew(at)aol.com |
Hi Jeff, Welcome to this list.
Glenn Thomas, a Brodhead regular, is from Storrs, CT. He owns a flying Piet
. Try to contact him via glennthomas(at)flyingwood.com . I am not sure he moni
tors this list all the time.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
-----Original Message-----
From: jeff <jeff(at)ereksonfamily.org>
Sent: Mon, Dec 20, 2010 2:32 pm
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpols flying in or near CT?
I'm new to the list, a lurker really. I'm looking at starting a
ietenpol with the long fuselage, 3 part wing, C65 engine (or VW w/
edrive), more conventional J3 style gear, and a few more modern
omponents.
I'm moving to CT in 2 weeks to live for the next 2-3 years. Are there
ny flying Piet's in that area? Anyone mind me coming by to gawk at
heir plane and sit in it to see how it feels?
-Jeff
-
-= -- Please Support Your Lists This Month --
-= (And Get Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!)
-
-= November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Click on
-= the Contribution link below to find out more about
-= this year's Terrific Free Incentive Gifts provided
-= by:
-=
-= * AeroElectric www.aeroelectric.com
-= * The Builder's Bookstore www.buildersbooks.com
-= * HomebuiltHELP www.homebuilthelp.com
-
-= List Contribution Web Site:
-
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
-
-= Thank you for your generous support!
-
-= -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
-
-========================
-= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum -
-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
-= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
-= Photoshare, and much much more:
-
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
-
-========================
-= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
-= Same great content also available via the Web Forums!
-
-= --> http://forums.matronics.com
-
-========================
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Progress Pics |
| From: | Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
Nice work Dave. How are you going to get your bottom fabric to contact the
undercambered ribs, just by rib lacing? Great wing stand, just ran a single
bolt through a hole in the tip, wish I thought of that. Did you put a blind
nut on the inside of the wing tip?
rick
On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 4:28 PM, Dangerous Dave wrote:
>
> Howdy,Covering the wings.Stewart Systems working great!dave
>
> --------
> Covering Piet
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=323856#323856
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/2010_12_19_15_54_41_476_835.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/2010_12_19_15_54_21_598_184.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/2010_12_19_10_54_14_220_539.jpg
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 22 Msgs - 12/19/10 |
| From: | Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
Chester when I grow up I want to be just like you (I am only 60). Keep up
the good work. I am just finishing another one your excellent books "The
First Cub" and have read "The Pietenpol Story" three times now.
Merry Christmas
rick
On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 7:58 AM, Chester Peek wrote:
>
> Age comment. I'm 90 and working on my Piet this morning. Chet peek Norman
> ok
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Progress Pics |
| From: | "AlRice" <Allen(at)allenrice.net> |
Looks like beautiful workmanship. The pictures would be a lot easier to look at
if you re-sized them to about 700 pixels wide. A free program like JPeg Resizer
will do that for you.
Also, the Stewart System doesn't require anti-chafe tape on the rib edges and other
areas prone to chafe the fabric or require inter-rib lacing? I'm used to
Poly Fiber that requires those extra steps. Maybe I need to switch.
--------
Al Rice
Skybolt 260
RV-9A
Helping with my grandson's Piet
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=323973#323973
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Progress Pics |
| From: | "Dangerous Dave" <dsornbor(at)aol.com> |
Interrib bracing and tape on top of ribs.almost spaced out the bracing but it wasn't
from being high on fumes.
--------
Covering Piet
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=323975#323975
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dick N" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Soon will be building |
Hey Rick
I am working on a third one now. This one is a Sky Scout. Tail feathers
and wing ribs done done, fuselage is in the jig.
Thought I'd correct the record.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: Rick Holland
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, December 20, 2010 4:04 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Soon will be building
Dan, you could always build a second Piet like Dick N. did. The best
of both worlds, one to fly and another to build.
rick
On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 5:32 AM, wrote:
Hi Kelly,
Even though I am done, I envy you in a lot of ways. Countless
enjoyable hours of designing and building in front of you. Enjoy every
minute of it rather than rush to get something done. I used my project
to learn a great deal on a variety of subjects.
Wishing all on this list a very blessed Christmas and Happy New Year
ahead.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Soon will be building |
Hey, it ain't braggin' if you can do it. And you done it!!
Man, I am REALLY looking forward to seeing that Sky Scout. I loved
your two 'Campers.
>Hey Rick
>I am working on a third one now. This one is a Sky Scout. Tail
>feathers and wing ribs done done, fuselage is in the jig.
>Thought I'd correct the record.
>Dick N.
--
Jeff Boatright
"Now let's think about this..."
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Soon will be building |
| From: | Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com> |
Happy to hear you are at work on another Pietenpol. Just curious, what
happened to the Volmer....or is she still coming along as well?
Ryan
On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 9:13 PM, Dick N wrote:
> Hey Rick
> I am working on a third one now. This one is a Sky Scout. Tail feathers
> and wing ribs done done, fuselage is in the jig.
> Thought I'd correct the record.
> Dick N.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Rick Holland
> *To:* pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> *Sent:* Monday, December 20, 2010 4:04 PM
> *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Soon will be building
>
> Dan, you could always build a second Piet like Dick N. did. The best of
> both worlds, one to fly and another to build.
>
> rick
>
> On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 5:32 AM, wrote:
>
>> Hi Kelly,
>>
>> Even though I am done, I envy you in a lot of ways. Countless enjoyable
>> hours of designing and building in front of you. Enjoy every minute of it
>> rather than rush to get something done. I used my project to learn a great
>> deal on a variety of subjects.
>>
>> Wishing all on this list a very blessed Christmas and Happy New Year
>> ahead.
>>
>> Dan Helsper
>> Poplar Grove, IL.
>>
>>
>
> --
> Rick Holland
> Castle Rock, Colorado
>
> "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
>
> *
>
> href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
> href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
> href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com*
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> |
I have perceived some anti-Corvair bias on the list. Is this for real?
I plan to use a Corvair engine in my Piet but if there is some REAL
fault with the engine I need to know it now. Is the bias real or just
done in jest? From watching William Wynne's videos I can't see anything
that would cause the bias unless it's just jealousy.
Chuck
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Corvair Engine |
| From: | helspersew(at)aol.com |
I think Chuck needs to watch the video that was procuced last Summer by Joh
n Hoffman. Anybody got the link?
.
-----Original Message-----
From: Charles Campbell <cncampbell(at)windstream.net>
Sent: Tue, Dec 21, 2010 5:46 am
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Engine
I have perceived some anti-Corvair bias on the list. Is this for real? I
plan to use a Corvair engine in my Piet but if there is some REAL fault wit
h the engine I need to know it now. Is the bias real or just done in jest?
From watching William Wynne's videos I can't see anything that would caus
e the bias unless it's just jealousy.
Chuck
-
-= -- Please Support Your Lists This Month --
-= (And Get Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!)
-
-= November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Click on
-= the Contribution link below to find out more about
-= this year's Terrific Free Incentive Gifts provided
-= by:
-
-= * AeroElectric www.aeroelectric.com
-= * The Builder's Bookstore www.buildersbooks.com
-= * HomebuiltHELP www.homebuilthelp.com
-
-= List Contribution Web Site:
-
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
-
-= Thank you for your generous support!
-
-= -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
-
-========================
-= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum -
-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
-= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
-= Photoshare, and much much more:
-
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
-
-========================
-= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
-= Same great content also available via the Web Forums!
-
-= --> http://forums.matronics.com
-
-========================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
Here is the link, but it won't play on my computer anymore. I've had some
problems with my PC lately so maybe you can view this:
http://gallery.me.com/johnnyskyrocket#100026
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Raleigh, NC
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
helspersew(at)aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2010 7:20 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Engine
I think Chuck needs to watch the video that was procuced last Summer by John
Hoffman. Anybody got the link?
.
-----Original Message-----
From: Charles Campbell <cncampbell(at)windstream.net>
Sent: Tue, Dec 21, 2010 5:46 am
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Engine
I have perceived some anti-Corvair bias on the list. Is this for real? I
plan to use a Corvair engine in my Piet but if there is some REAL fault with
the engine I need to know it now. Is the bias real or just done in jest?
>From watching William Wynne's videos I can't see anything that would cause
the bias unless it's just jealousy.
Chuck
_blank>www.aeroelectric.com
/" target=_blank>www.buildersbooks.com
=_blank>www.homebuilthelp.com
blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
p://forums.matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
Chuck,
PLEASE do not encourage them! You are on a good path. Become a WW student,
and enjoy the process of building your own engine, too. Are you also on the
Corvair List? There are a bunch of flying Pietenpols with Corvairs,
including the Bell boys, all the Big Piets, PF Beck, Gardiner Mason, Axel
Purtee just to name a few. There are a bunch more that will become airborne
in a year or two. I think most comments are meant in jest, as in the
following, as requested by Dan Helsper (thanks to John Hoffman):
http://gallery.me.com/johnnyskyrocket#100017
BTW.Dan Helsper and PF Beck are also accomplished prop carvers. Wanna' start
another debate about the pros & cons of carving your own prop? How about
laminating your own struts, like Axel?.....
Now look what you've done! You got me started...
Painting with house paint, raising the turtledecks, modifying the center
section, using motorcycle wheels, rear control stick push rods..the list
goes on.
Point is: FAA calls it 'EXPERIMENTAL' for a very good reason. I say, "Go
ahead and experiment. It's your dream."
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol (with laminated struts!)
WW Corvair Conversion, Running!
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(23 ribs down.)
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tue Dec 21 05:43:24 2010
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Engine
I have perceived some anti-Corvair bias on the list. Is this for real? I
plan to use a Corvair engine in my Piet but if there is some REAL fault with
the engine I need to know it now. Is the bias real or just done in jest?
>From watching William Wynne's videos I can't see anything that would cause
the bias unless it's just jealousy.
Chuck
Confidentiality Notice: This email is intended for the sole use of the
intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential, proprietary or
privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, you are
notified that any use, review, dissemination, copying or action taken based
on this message or its attachments, if any, is prohibited. If you are not
the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply email and destroy
or delete all copies of the original message and any attachments. Thank you.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kip and Beth Gardner <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Corvair Engine |
On political comment boards, 'encouraging them' is known as 'feeding
the trolls' - it's like at the zoo - no feeding the animals! :)
To be fair, there have been some issues that have come up over the
years with regards to William Wynne's conversion, but he's been good
about addressing them (costs more $, but they are addressed). Most of
the issues arise from the fact that WW has modified the engine to put
out higher HP (he claims 100hp), changing the torque curve by using a
different cam.
The problems come from the fact that the lack of a support bearing at
the prop end has resulted in a few snapped crank failures in high
stress applications (mostly Corvairs installed in KR's). This is
fixed by the addition of a 5th bearing, of which there are a couple
after market choices that have been developed specifically for the
aircraft conversion. Roy's Garage in Michigan is one example.
Bernard, of course used a largely unmodified Corvair in his "Last
Original". You could do the same by doing a basic WW conversion but
leaving in the original cam, and setting up a pressure cowl for
cooling (thus allowing you to take out the blower fan) and probably
get 50-60hp without (or at least fewer) concerns about the crank
failing. After all, "The Last Original" has been flying continuously
for nearly 50 years now. For myself, I'm going the full WW
conversion route, with a 5th bearing from Roy's, because I think his
5th bearing design is the best and easiest to incorporate into the
engine.
Kip Gardner
On Dec 21, 2010, at 8:24 AM, Gary Boothe wrote:
> Chuck,
>
> PLEASE do not encourage them! You are on a good path. Become a WW
> student, and enjoy the process of building your own engine, too. Are
> you also on the Corvair List? There are a bunch of flying Pietenpols
> with Corvairs, including the Bell boys, all the Big Piets, PF Beck,
> Gardiner Mason, Axel Purtee just to name a few. There are a bunch
> more that will become airborne in a year or two. I think most
> comments are meant in jest, as in the following, as requested by Dan
> Helsper (thanks to John Hoffman):
>
> http://gallery.me.com/johnnyskyrocket#100017
>
> BTW=85Dan Helsper and PF Beck are also accomplished prop carvers.
> Wanna=92 start another debate about the pros & cons of carving your
> own prop? How about laminating your own struts, like Axel?.....
>
> Now look what you=92ve done! You got me started=85..
>
> Painting with house paint, raising the turtledecks, modifying the
> center section, using motorcycle wheels, rear control stick push
> rods=85.the list goes on.
>
> Point is: FAA calls it =91EXPERIMENTAL=92 for a very good reason. I
say,
> =93Go ahead and experiment. It=92s your dream.=94
> Gary Boothe
> Cool, Ca.
> Pietenpol (with laminated struts!)
> WW Corvair Conversion, Running!
> Tail done, Fuselage on gear
> (23 ribs down=85)
>
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
>
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Tue Dec 21 05:43:24 2010
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Engine
>
> I have perceived some anti-Corvair bias on the list. Is this for
> real? I plan to use a Corvair engine in my Piet but if there is
> some REAL fault with the engine I need to know it now. Is the bias
> real or just done in jest? =46rom watching William Wynne's videos I
> can't see anything that would cause the bias unless it's just
> jealousy.
>
>
> Chuck
>
>
> www.buildersbooks.com
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> http://forums.matronics.com
> Confidentiality Notice: This email is intended for the sole use of
> the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential, proprietary
> or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient,
> you are notified that any use, review, dissemination, copying or
> action taken based on this message or its attachments, if any, is
> prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact
> the sender by reply email and destroy or delete all copies of the
> original message and any attachments. Thank you.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
Chuck,
Yes it is in jest, mostly. If I lived in the midwest, I would probably have
built my Piet with a Model A, because I really like the look and sound
(pockity, pockity) of that engine. However, for me reliability is key,
flying above the forests of North Carolina and the mountains of Virginia,
and I'm just not a fan of auto engine conversions for aircraft. The design
requirements are simply too different.
Car engines are not designed to operate anywhere near full power for more
than a few seconds at a time, whereas an aircraft engine must be capable of
full power continuously. That's why Corvairs require such little tricks as
painting the pushrod tubes white to try to keep the oil down to a manageable
temperature. Putting that engine in an airplane is asking it to do
something it was simply not designed to do. Now the Corvair guys are adding
a 5th main bearing (at significant expense, negating the supposed cost
advantage of using a car engine to begin with) to handle the loads that a
propeller puts on the crankshaft. There have been numerous cases of
crankshafts breaking in Corvairs in aircraft, although I don't know of any
in a Pietenpol, other than Shad Bell's.
Car engines (other than the Model A) also tend to get their power at higher
RPMs than are useful for driving propellers. Props really loose efficiency
when the tips start going supersonic (to say nothing of being VERY noisy -
ever hear a T-6 takeoff?) and with the size props used on planes of our size
that happens at about 2500 RPM. Power generated at speeds faster than that
is not very useful and there needs to be substantial torque in the 2000 -
2500 RPM range. That's why so many auto engine conversions require gearing
to reduce the propeller speed, which adds cost, weight and complexity, and
hurts reliablity.
As Gary says, these are EXPERIMENTAL airplanes, so you are free to do as you
wish. Just realize that in this as in most decisions made in building an
airplane, there are tradeoffs. Reliability is not something I choose to
trade away, if I can help it.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Raleigh, NC
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Boothe
Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2010 8:24 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Engine
Chuck,
PLEASE do not encourage them! You are on a good path. Become a WW student,
and enjoy the process of building your own engine, too. Are you also on the
Corvair List? There are a bunch of flying Pietenpols with Corvairs,
including the Bell boys, all the Big Piets, PF Beck, Gardiner Mason, Axel
Purtee just to name a few. There are a bunch more that will become airborne
in a year or two. I think most comments are meant in jest, as in the
following, as requested by Dan Helsper (thanks to John Hoffman):
http://gallery.me.com/johnnyskyrocket#100017
BTW.Dan Helsper and PF Beck are also accomplished prop carvers. Wanna' start
another debate about the pros & cons of carving your own prop? How about
laminating your own struts, like Axel?.....
Now look what you've done! You got me started...
Painting with house paint, raising the turtledecks, modifying the center
section, using motorcycle wheels, rear control stick push rods..the list
goes on.
Point is: FAA calls it 'EXPERIMENTAL' for a very good reason. I say, "Go
ahead and experiment. It's your dream."
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol (with laminated struts!)
WW Corvair Conversion, Running!
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(23 ribs down.)
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tue Dec 21 05:43:24 2010
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Engine
I have perceived some anti-Corvair bias on the list. Is this for real? I
plan to use a Corvair engine in my Piet but if there is some REAL fault with
the engine I need to know it now. Is the bias real or just done in jest?
>From watching William Wynne's videos I can't see anything that would cause
the bias unless it's just jealousy.
Chuck
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "TOM STINEMETZE" <TOMS(at)mcpcity.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Corvair Engine |
>>> "Charles Campbell" 12/21/2010 5:43 AM >>>
Is the bias real or just done in jest?
Oh it's jealousy Chuck, pure and simple. There's nothing like 100+ SMOOTH
Chevy horsepower lifting you effortlessly into "...the long delirious
burning blue..."
Speaking of which. Have you seen the FAA's attempt to suck all the fun
out of flying? See below.
Pilot Officer Gillespie Magee
No 412 squadron, RCAF
Killed 11 December 1941
High Flight, with FAA Supplement
Oh, I have slipped the surly bonds of earth(1),
And danced(2) the skies on laughter silvered wings;
Sunward I've climbed(3) and joined the tumbling mirth(4)
Of sun-split clouds(5) and done a hundred things(6)
You have not dreamed of - Wheeled and soared and swung(7)
High in the sunlit silence(8). Hov'ring there(9)
I've chased the shouting wind(10) along and flung(11)
My eager craft through footless halls of air.
Up, up the long delirious(12), burning blue
I've topped the wind-swept heights(13) with easy grace,
Where never lark, or even eagle(14) flew;
And, while with silent, lifting mind I've trod
The high untrespassed sanctity of space(15),
Put out my hand(16), and touched the face of God.
FAA MEMO:
1. Pilots must insure that all surly bonds have been slipped entirely
before aircraft taxiing is attempted.
2. During periods of sky dancing, crew and passengers must keep seatbelts
fastened. Crew should wear shoulder belts as provided. Sky dancing must
only be performed in aircraft rated for that activity.
3. Sunward climbs must not exceed the maximum permitted aircraft
ceiling.
4. Passenger aircraft are prohibited from joining the tumbling mirth.
5. Pilots flying through sun-split clouds under VFR conditions must comply
with all applicable minimum clearances.
6. Do not perform certain hundred things in front of Federal Aviation
Administration inspectors.
7. Wheeling, soaring, and swinging will not be attempted except in
aircraft rated for such activities and within utility class weight limits
and by pilots trained in such maneuvers with appropriate log endorsements.
8. Be advised that sunlit silence will occur only when a major engine
malfunction has occurred.
9. "Hov'ring there" will constitute a highly reliable signal that a flight
emergency is imminent. "Hov'ring there" may be executed safely in rotor
wing or vertical lift aircraft.
10. Forecasts of shouting winds are available from the local FSS.
Encounters with unexpected shouting winds should be reported by PIREP.
11. Pilots flinging eager aircraft through footless halls of air are
reminded that they alone are responsible for maintaining separation from
other eagerly flinging aircraft.
12. Should any crewmember or passenger experience delirium while in the
burning blue, submit an irregularity report upon flight termination and
seek immediate attention from their aeromedical examiner or flight
surgeon.
13. Windswept heights will be topped by a minimum of 1,000 feet to
maintain VFR minimum separations.
14. Aircraft engine ingestion of, or impact with, larks or eagles should
be reported to the FAA and the appropriate aircraft maintenance
facility.
15. Aircraft operating in the high untresspassed sanctity of space must
remain in IFR flight regardless of meteorological conditions and visibility
. remember to set altimeter to 29.92 where untresspassed sanctity exceeds
FL180.
16. Pilots and passengers are reminded that opening doors or windows in
order to touch the face of God may result in loss of cabin pressure. When
assisting others or small children to touch the face of God, please secure
your oxygen mask first, then assist others.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kip and Beth Gardner <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Corvair Engine |
Of course, as Jack will attest, aircraft engines never fail. :). I
also recall Amy Laboda, back when she was writing for EAA, doing a
column about how the crank snapped on takeoff on her big, old reliable
Continental-powered Cessna, putting her & her 2 daughters into
Biscayne Bay. It's flying, sh** can happen no matter what your choice
of aircraft, engine, etc.
The other thing to consider is that even with the 5th bearing, if you
are good at doing your own work, a zero-time Corvair conversion will
cost you about 6K. For that amount, you might get an A-65 overhauled,
but how many guys on this list have A-65's, and have concerns about
flying on hot days, or carrying passengers who weigh more than about
180lbs., or worry about the length of their runways, etc. etc. ? Can
you get a C-85 or C-95 rebuilt to zero time for 6K? I'm not sure, but
that would be the appropriate comparison. (On a different, but
related note, Oscar, how IS the C-85 working out? Better, I hope).
This is the debate that will NEVER die :)
Kip Gardner
On Dec 21, 2010, at 9:07 AM, Jack Phillips wrote:
> Chuck,
>
> Yes it is in jest, mostly. If I lived in the midwest, I would
> probably have built my Piet with a Model A, because I really like
> the look and sound (pockity, pockity) of that engine. However, for
> me reliability is key, flying above the forests of North Carolina
> and the mountains of Virginia, and I=92m just not a fan of auto engine
> conversions for aircraft. The design requirements are simply too
> different.
>
> Car engines are not designed to operate anywhere near full power for
> more than a few seconds at a time, whereas an aircraft engine must
> be capable of full power continuously. That=92s why Corvairs require
> such little tricks as painting the pushrod tubes white to try to
> keep the oil down to a manageable temperature. Putting that engine
> in an airplane is asking it to do something it was simply not
> designed to do. Now the Corvair guys are adding a 5th main bearing
> (at significant expense, negating the supposed cost advantage of
> using a car engine to begin with) to handle the loads that a
> propeller puts on the crankshaft. There have been numerous cases of
> crankshafts breaking in Corvairs in aircraft, although I don=92t know
> of any in a Pietenpol, other than Shad Bell=92s.
>
> Car engines (other than the Model A) also tend to get their power at
> higher RPMs than are useful for driving propellers. Props really
> loose efficiency when the tips start going supersonic (to say
> nothing of being VERY noisy ' ever hear a T-6 takeoff?) and with the
> size props used on planes of our size that happens at about 2500
> RPM. Power generated at speeds faster than that is not very useful
> and there needs to be substantial torque in the 2000 ' 2500 RPM
> range. That=92s why so many auto engine conversions require gearing
> to reduce the propeller speed, which adds cost, weight and
> complexity, and hurts reliablity.
>
> As Gary says, these are EXPERIMENTAL airplanes, so you are free to
> do as you wish. Just realize that in this as in most decisions made
> in building an airplane, there are tradeoffs. Reliability is not
> something I choose to trade away, if I can help it.
>
> Jack Phillips
> NX899JP =93Icarus Plummet=94
> Raleigh, NC
>
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> ] On Behalf Of Gary Boothe
> Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2010 8:24 AM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Engine
>
> Chuck,
>
> PLEASE do not encourage them! You are on a good path. Become a WW
> student, and enjoy the process of building your own engine, too. Are
> you also on the Corvair List? There are a bunch of flying Pietenpols
> with Corvairs, including the Bell boys, all the Big Piets, PF Beck,
> Gardiner Mason, Axel Purtee just to name a few. There are a bunch
> more that will become airborne in a year or two. I think most
> comments are meant in jest, as in the following, as requested by Dan
> Helsper (thanks to John Hoffman):
>
> http://gallery.me.com/johnnyskyrocket#100017
>
> BTW=85Dan Helsper and PF Beck are also accomplished prop carvers.
> Wanna=92 start another debate about the pros & cons of carving your
> own prop? How about laminating your own struts, like Axel?.....
>
> Now look what you=92ve done! You got me started=85..
>
> Painting with house paint, raising the turtledecks, modifying the
> center section, using motorcycle wheels, rear control stick push
> rods=85.the list goes on.
>
> Point is: FAA calls it =91EXPERIMENTAL=92 for a very good reason. I
say,
> =93Go ahead and experiment. It=92s your dream.=94
> Gary Boothe
> Cool, Ca.
> Pietenpol (with laminated struts!)
> WW Corvair Conversion, Running!
> Tail done, Fuselage on gear
> (23 ribs down=85)
>
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
>
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Tue Dec 21 05:43:24 2010
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Engine
>
> I have perceived some anti-Corvair bias on the list. Is this for
> real? I plan to use a Corvair engine in my Piet but if there is
> some REAL fault with the engine I need to know it now. Is the bias
> real or just done in jest? =46rom watching William Wynne's videos I
> can't see anything that would cause the bias unless it's just
> jealousy.
>
>
> Chuck
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kip and Beth Gardner <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Corvair Engine |
In the last post, I meant C-90 (O-200) of course.
On Dec 21, 2010, at 9:35 AM, Kip and Beth Gardner wrote:
> Of course, as Jack will attest, aircraft engines never fail. :). I
> also recall Amy Laboda, back when she was writing for EAA, doing a
> column about how the crank snapped on takeoff on her big, old
> reliable Continental-powered Cessna, putting her & her 2 daughters
> into Biscayne Bay. It's flying, sh** can happen no matter what your
> choice of aircraft, engine, etc.
>
> The other thing to consider is that even with the 5th bearing, if
> you are good at doing your own work, a zero-time Corvair conversion
> will cost you about 6K. For that amount, you might get an A-65
> overhauled, but how many guys on this list have A-65's, and have
> concerns about flying on hot days, or carrying passengers who weigh
> more than about 180lbs., or worry about the length of their runways,
> etc. etc. ? Can you get a C-85 or C-95 rebuilt to zero time for
> 6K? I'm not sure, but that would be the appropriate comparison.
> (On a different, but related note, Oscar, how IS the C-85 working
> out? Better, I hope).
>
> This is the debate that will NEVER die :)
>
> Kip Gardner
>
> On Dec 21, 2010, at 9:07 AM, Jack Phillips wrote:
>
>> Chuck,
>>
>> Yes it is in jest, mostly. If I lived in the midwest, I would
>> probably have built my Piet with a Model A, because I really like
>> the look and sound (pockity, pockity) of that engine. However, for
>> me reliability is key, flying above the forests of North Carolina
>> and the mountains of Virginia, and I=92m just not a fan of auto
>> engine conversions for aircraft. The design requirements are
>> simply too different.
>>
>> Car engines are not designed to operate anywhere near full power
>> for more than a few seconds at a time, whereas an aircraft engine
>> must be capable of full power continuously. That=92s why Corvairs
>> require such little tricks as painting the pushrod tubes white to
>> try to keep the oil down to a manageable temperature. Putting that
>> engine in an airplane is asking it to do something it was simply
>> not designed to do. Now the Corvair guys are adding a 5th main
>> bearing (at significant expense, negating the supposed cost
>> advantage of using a car engine to begin with) to handle the loads
>> that a propeller puts on the crankshaft. There have been numerous
>> cases of crankshafts breaking in Corvairs in aircraft, although I
>> don=92t know of any in a Pietenpol, other than Shad Bell=92s.
>>
>> Car engines (other than the Model A) also tend to get their power
>> at higher RPMs than are useful for driving propellers. Props
>> really loose efficiency when the tips start going supersonic (to
>> say nothing of being VERY noisy ' ever hear a T-6 takeoff?) and
>> with the size props used on planes of our size that happens at
>> about 2500 RPM. Power generated at speeds faster than that is not
>> very useful and there needs to be substantial torque in the 2000 '
>> 2500 RPM range. That=92s why so many auto engine conversions require
>> gearing to reduce the propeller speed, which adds cost, weight and
>> complexity, and hurts reliablity.
>>
>> As Gary says, these are EXPERIMENTAL airplanes, so you are free to
>> do as you wish. Just realize that in this as in most decisions
>> made in building an airplane, there are tradeoffs. Reliability is
>> not something I choose to trade away, if I can help it.
>>
>> Jack Phillips
>> NX899JP =93Icarus Plummet=94
>> Raleigh, NC
>>
>> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
>> ] On Behalf Of Gary Boothe
>> Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2010 8:24 AM
>> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Engine
>>
>> Chuck,
>>
>> PLEASE do not encourage them! You are on a good path. Become a WW
>> student, and enjoy the process of building your own engine, too.
>> Are you also on the Corvair List? There are a bunch of flying
>> Pietenpols with Corvairs, including the Bell boys, all the Big
>> Piets, PF Beck, Gardiner Mason, Axel Purtee just to name a few.
>> There are a bunch more that will become airborne in a year or two.
>> I think most comments are meant in jest, as in the following, as
>> requested by Dan Helsper (thanks to John Hoffman):
>>
>> http://gallery.me.com/johnnyskyrocket#100017
>>
>> BTW=85Dan Helsper and PF Beck are also accomplished prop carvers.
>> Wanna=92 start another debate about the pros & cons of carving your
>> own prop? How about laminating your own struts, like Axel?.....
>>
>> Now look what you=92ve done! You got me started=85..
>>
>> Painting with house paint, raising the turtledecks, modifying the
>> center section, using motorcycle wheels, rear control stick push
>> rods=85.the list goes on.
>>
>> Point is: FAA calls it =91EXPERIMENTAL=92 for a very good reason. I
>> say, =93Go ahead and experiment. It=92s your dream.=94
>> Gary Boothe
>> Cool, Ca.
>> Pietenpol (with laminated struts!)
>> WW Corvair Conversion, Running!
>> Tail done, Fuselage on gear
>> (23 ribs down=85)
>>
>> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> >
>> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>> Sent: Tue Dec 21 05:43:24 2010
>> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Engine
>>
>> I have perceived some anti-Corvair bias on the list. Is this for
>> real? I plan to use a Corvair engine in my Piet but if there is
>> some REAL fault with the engine I need to know it now. Is the bias
>> real or just done in jest? =46rom watching William Wynne's videos I
>> can't see anything that would cause the bias unless it's just
>> jealousy.
>>
>>
>> Chuck
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;
>> ">www.aeroelectric.com
>> href="http://www.buildersbooks.com" style="color: blue; text-
>> decoration: underline; ">www.buildersbooks.com
>> style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;
">www.homebuilthelp.com
>> style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;
">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List"
>> style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;
">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>> blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://forums.matronics.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> |
Although I'm having trouble keeping up with the Piet list I would like
to get on the Corvair list, also. How do I do it?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Corvair Engine |
Gary, forget my question about how to join the Corvair list -- I just
did! Chuck----- Original Message -----
From: Kip and Beth Gardner
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2010 9:35 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Engine
Of course, as Jack will attest, aircraft engines never fail. :). I
also recall Amy Laboda, back when she was writing for EAA, doing a
column about how the crank snapped on takeoff on her big, old reliable
Continental-powered Cessna, putting her & her 2 daughters into Biscayne
Bay. It's flying, sh** can happen no matter what your choice of
aircraft, engine, etc.
The other thing to consider is that even with the 5th bearing, if you
are good at doing your own work, a zero-time Corvair conversion will
cost you about 6K. For that amount, you might get an A-65 overhauled,
but how many guys on this list have A-65's, and have concerns about
flying on hot days, or carrying passengers who weigh more than about
180lbs., or worry about the length of their runways, etc. etc. ? Can
you get a C-85 or C-95 rebuilt to zero time for 6K? I'm not sure, but
that would be the appropriate comparison. (On a different, but related
note, Oscar, how IS the C-85 working out? Better, I hope).
This is the debate that will NEVER die :)
Kip Gardner
On Dec 21, 2010, at 9:07 AM, Jack Phillips wrote:
Chuck,
Yes it is in jest, mostly. If I lived in the midwest, I would
probably have built my Piet with a Model A, because I really like the
look and sound (pockity, pockity) of that engine. However, for me
reliability is key, flying above the forests of North Carolina and the
mountains of Virginia, and I=92m just not a fan of auto engine
conversions for aircraft. The design requirements are simply too
different.
Car engines are not designed to operate anywhere near full power for
more than a few seconds at a time, whereas an aircraft engine must be
capable of full power continuously. That=92s why Corvairs require such
little tricks as painting the pushrod tubes white to try to keep the oil
down to a manageable temperature. Putting that engine in an airplane is
asking it to do something it was simply not designed to do. Now the
Corvair guys are adding a 5th main bearing (at significant expense,
negating the supposed cost advantage of using a car engine to begin
with) to handle the loads that a propeller puts on the crankshaft.
There have been numerous cases of crankshafts breaking in Corvairs in
aircraft, although I don=92t know of any in a Pietenpol, other than Shad
Bell=92s.
Car engines (other than the Model A) also tend to get their power at
higher RPMs than are useful for driving propellers. Props really loose
efficiency when the tips start going supersonic (to say nothing of being
VERY noisy ' ever hear a T-6 takeoff?) and with the size props used on
planes of our size that happens at about 2500 RPM. Power generated at
speeds faster than that is not very useful and there needs to be
substantial torque in the 2000 ' 2500 RPM range. That=92s why so many
auto engine conversions require gearing to reduce the propeller speed,
which adds cost, weight and complexity, and hurts reliablity.
As Gary says, these are EXPERIMENTAL airplanes, so you are free to
do as you wish. Just realize that in this as in most decisions made in
building an airplane, there are tradeoffs. Reliability is not something
I choose to trade away, if I can help it.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP =93Icarus Plummet=94
Raleigh, NC
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary
Boothe
Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2010 8:24 AM
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Engine
Chuck,
PLEASE do not encourage them! You are on a good path. Become a WW
student, and enjoy the process of building your own engine, too. Are you
also on the Corvair List? There are a bunch of flying Pietenpols with
Corvairs, including the Bell boys, all the Big Piets, PF Beck, Gardiner
Mason, Axel Purtee just to name a few. There are a bunch more that will
become airborne in a year or two. I think most comments are meant in
jest, as in the following, as requested by Dan Helsper (thanks to John
Hoffman):
http://gallery.me.com/johnnyskyrocket#100017
BTW=85Dan Helsper and PF Beck are also accomplished prop carvers.
Wanna=92 start another debate about the pros & cons of carving your own
prop? How about laminating your own struts, like Axel?.....
Now look what you=92ve done! You got me started=85..
Painting with house paint, raising the turtledecks, modifying the
center section, using motorcycle wheels, rear control stick push
rods=85.the list goes on.
Point is: FAA calls it =91EXPERIMENTAL=92 for a very good reason. I
say, =93Go ahead and experiment. It=92s your dream.=94
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol (with laminated struts!)
WW Corvair Conversion, Running!
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(23 ribs down=85)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tue Dec 21 05:43:24 2010
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Engine
I have perceived some anti-Corvair bias on the list. Is this for
real? I plan to use a Corvair engine in my Piet but if there is some
REAL fault with the engine I need to know it now. Is the bias real or
just done in jest? From watching William Wynne's videos I can't see
anything that would cause the bias unless it's just jealousy.
Chuck
style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">www.aeroelectric.com
href="http://www.buildersbooks.com" style="color: blue;
text-decoration: underline; ">www.buildersbooks.com
style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;
">www.homebuilthelp.com
style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;
">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List"
style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;
">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://forums.matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Corvair Engine |
| From: | "kevinpurtee" <kevin.purtee(at)us.army.mil> |
Hi Chuck - I've got a rule of thumb: if it keeps me up at night I won't do it.
Example - the one thing that kept me up during construction was my landing gear
wheels and axles. I changed them from my flimsy, motorcycle-based design to
a much stouter setup. My corvair did not, and does not, keep me up at night.
That's no guarantee it won't quit, it just shows where I put the corvair in
the risk management equation.
A couple of things I do personally to mitigate the risks of flying with a non-aircraft
engine: I occasionally do landings with the engine turned off, I try to
make all landings with the engine at idle, and I fly over places where I can
land if the motor does quit. Probably a good idea to do those things in any
aircraft.
Jack's point about the mountains is a good one. My Austin/Brodhead/Oshkosh/Austin
trip last year was planned over very forgiving ground, for both engine out
scenarios and for recovering-the-plane-after-the-engine-out scenarios.
I would not steer you away from the corvair. Fat Bottomed Girl's been flying 14
months and I intend to fly the 176th uneventful hour on Thursday.
BTW: the words "Aviation Safety" are actually in my job title. I'm familiar with
managing risk.
For what it's worth, my friend.
Axel
--------
Kevin "Axel" Purtee
NX899KP
Austin/Georgetown, TX
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324022#324022
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Corvair Engine |
Kip, I was considering the full WW conversion except for the 5th
bearing. The engines without the 5th bearing operated OK for years.
----- Original Message -----
From: Kip and Beth Gardner
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2010 9:01 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Engine
On political comment boards, 'encouraging them' is known as 'feeding
the trolls' - it's like at the zoo - no feeding the animals! :)
To be fair, there have been some issues that have come up over the
years with regards to William Wynne's conversion, but he's been good
about addressing them (costs more $, but they are addressed). Most of
the issues arise from the fact that WW has modified the engine to put
out higher HP (he claims 100hp), changing the torque curve by using a
different cam.
The problems come from the fact that the lack of a support bearing at
the prop end has resulted in a few snapped crank failures in high stress
applications (mostly Corvairs installed in KR's). This is fixed by the
addition of a 5th bearing, of which there are a couple after market
choices that have been developed specifically for the aircraft
conversion. Roy's Garage in Michigan is one example.
Bernard, of course used a largely unmodified Corvair in his "Last
Original". You could do the same by doing a basic WW conversion but
leaving in the original cam, and setting up a pressure cowl for cooling
(thus allowing you to take out the blower fan) and probably get 50-60hp
without (or at least fewer) concerns about the crank failing. After
all, "The Last Original" has been flying continuously for nearly 50
years now. For myself, I'm going the full WW conversion route, with a
5th bearing from Roy's, because I think his 5th bearing design is the
best and easiest to incorporate into the engine.
Kip Gardner
On Dec 21, 2010, at 8:24 AM, Gary Boothe wrote:
Chuck,
PLEASE do not encourage them! You are on a good path. Become a WW
student, and enjoy the process of building your own engine, too. Are you
also on the Corvair List? There are a bunch of flying Pietenpols with
Corvairs, including the Bell boys, all the Big Piets, PF Beck, Gardiner
Mason, Axel Purtee just to name a few. There are a bunch more that will
become airborne in a year or two. I think most comments are meant in
jest, as in the following, as requested by Dan Helsper (thanks to John
Hoffman):
http://gallery.me.com/johnnyskyrocket#100017
BTW=85Dan Helsper and PF Beck are also accomplished prop carvers.
Wanna=92 start another debate about the pros & cons of carving your own
prop? How about laminating your own struts, like Axel?.....
Now look what you=92ve done! You got me started=85..
Painting with house paint, raising the turtledecks, modifying the
center section, using motorcycle wheels, rear control stick push
rods=85.the list goes on.
Point is: FAA calls it =91EXPERIMENTAL=92 for a very good reason. I
say, =93Go ahead and experiment. It=92s your dream.=94
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol (with laminated struts!)
WW Corvair Conversion, Running!
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(23 ribs down=85)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tue Dec 21 05:43:24 2010
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Engine
I have perceived some anti-Corvair bias on the list. Is this for
real? I plan to use a Corvair engine in my Piet but if there is some
REAL fault with the engine I need to know it now. Is the bias real or
just done in jest? From watching William Wynne's videos I can't see
anything that would cause the bias unless it's just jealousy.
Chuck
www.buildersbooks.comhttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhtt
p://forums.matronics.comConfidentiality Notice: This email is intended
for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain
confidential, proprietary or privileged information. If you are not the
intended recipient, you are notified that any use, review,
dissemination, copying or action taken based on this message or its
attachments, if any, is prohibited. If you are not the intended
recipient, please contact the sender by reply email and destroy or
delete all copies of the original message and any attachments. Thank
you.
style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">www.aeroelectric.com
href="http://www.buildersbooks.com" style="color: blue;
text-decoration: underline; ">www.buildersbooks.com
style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;
">www.homebuilthelp.com
style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;
">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List"
style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;
">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://forums.matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Corvair List |
| From: | Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com> |
http://mylist.net/listinfo/corvaircraft
On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 9:02 AM, Charles Campbell wrote:
> Although I'm having trouble keeping up with the Piet list I would like to
> get on the Corvair list, also. How do I do it?
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Corvair Engine |
| From: | gboothe5(at)comcast.net |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________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Corvair Engine |
| From: | Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com> |
If you are going to do the full boat WW conversion.....and probably looking
at in the ballpark of $6000 to $7000 for your conversion/overhaul.....why
not spend another grand for at least the Weseman BTA 5th bearing and not
have to worry about the crank at all? In the overall grand scheme (or cost)
of things, $1000 is not that much....
Ryan
On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 9:25 AM, Charles Campbell wrote:
> Kip, I was considering the full WW conversion except for the 5th
> bearing. The engines without the 5th bearing operated OK for years.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Kip and Beth Gardner
> *To:* pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 21, 2010 9:01 AM
> *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Engine
>
> On political comment boards, 'encouraging them' is known as 'feeding the
> trolls' - it's like at the zoo - no feeding the animals! :)
>
> To be fair, there have been some issues that have come up over the years
> with regards to William Wynne's conversion, but he's been good about
> addressing them (costs more $, but they are addressed). Most of the issu
es
> arise from the fact that WW has modified the engine to put out higher HP
(he
> claims 100hp), changing the torque curve by using a different cam.
>
> The problems come from the fact that the lack of a support bearing at the
> prop end has resulted in a few snapped crank failures in high stress
> applications (mostly Corvairs installed in KR's). This is fixed by the
> addition of a 5th bearing, of which there are a couple after market choic
es
> that have been developed specifically for the aircraft conversion. Roy's
> Garage in Michigan is one example.
>
> Bernard, of course used a largely unmodified Corvair in his "Last
> Original". You could do the same by doing a basic WW conversion but leav
ing
> in the original cam, and setting up a pressure cowl for cooling (thus
> allowing you to take out the blower fan) and probably get 50-60hp without
> (or at least fewer) concerns about the crank failing. After all, "The La
st
> Original" has been flying continuously for nearly 50 years now. For
> myself, I'm going the full WW conversion route, with a 5th bearing from
> Roy's, because I think his 5th bearing design is the best and easiest to
> incorporate into the engine.
>
> Kip Gardner
>
> On Dec 21, 2010, at 8:24 AM, Gary Boothe wrote:
>
> Chuck,
> PLEASE do not encourage them! You are on a good path. Become a WW
> student, and enjoy the process of building your own engine, too. Are you
> also on the Corvair List? There are a bunch of flying Pietenpols with
> Corvairs, including the Bell boys, all the Big Piets, PF Beck, Gardiner
> Mason, Axel Purtee just to name a few. There are a bunch more that will
> become airborne in a year or two. I think most comments are meant in jest
,
> as in the following, as requested by Dan Helsper (thanks to John Hoffman)
:
> http://gallery.me.com/johnnyskyrocket#100017
> BTW=85Dan Helsper and PF Beck are also accomplished prop carvers. Wanna
=92
> start another debate about the pros & cons of carving your own prop? How
> about laminating your own struts, like Axel?.....
> Now look what you=92ve done! You got me started=85..
> Painting with house paint, raising the turtledecks, modifying the center
> section, using motorcycle wheels, rear control stick push rods=85.the lis
t
> goes on.
> Point is: FAA calls it =91EXPERIMENTAL=92 for a very good reason. I say,
=93Go
> ahead and experiment. It=92s your dream.=94
>
> Gary Boothe
> Cool, Ca.
> Pietenpol (with laminated struts!)
> WW Corvair Conversion, Running!
> Tail done, Fuselage on gear
> (23 ribs down=85)
> ------------------------------
>
> *From*: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com <
> owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com>
> *To*: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> *Sent*: Tue Dec 21 05:43:24 2010
> *Subject*: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Engine
> I have perceived some anti-Corvair bias on the list. Is this for real?
> I plan to use a Corvair engine in my Piet but if there is some REAL fault
> with the engine I need to know it now. Is the bias real or just done in
> jest? From watching William Wynne's videos I can't see anything that wou
ld
> cause the bias unless it's just jealousy.
> Chuck
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *www.buildersbooks.com*
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List*
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://forums.matronics.com*
>
> **
>
> Confidentiality Notice: This email is intended for the sole use of the
> intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential, proprietary or
> privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, you are
> notified that any use, review, dissemination, copying or action taken bas
ed
> on this message or its attachments, if any, is prohibited. If you are not
> the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply email and dest
roy
> or delete all copies of the original message and any attachments. Thank y
ou.
>
> *
>
> style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">www.aeroelectric.com
>
> href="http://www.buildersbooks.com" style="color: blue; text-decorati
on: underline; ">www.buildersbooks.com
> style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">www.homebuilthelp.com
> style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://www.matronics.
com/contribution
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List" style="color
: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pi
etenpol-List
> blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://forums.matronics.com
> *
>
>
> *
>
> href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
> href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
> href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matro
nics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com*
>
> *
>
===========
===========
===========
============*
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kip and Beth Gardner <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Corvair Engine |
I'm going with the 5th bearing mainly because I can afford to & I tend
to be a belt and suspenders kind of guy. I know it's probably not
necessary with the loads a Piet imposes. Plus, I don't mind a little
extra weight in the nose for W & B, rather than having to move the
wings back too far, so why not make it useful wt. instead of a 20 lb.
chunk of lead?
Kip G.
On Dec 21, 2010, at 10:44 AM, Ryan Mueller wrote:
> If you are going to do the full boat WW conversion.....and probably
> looking at in the ballpark of $6000 to $7000 for your conversion/
> overhaul.....why not spend another grand for at least the Weseman
> BTA 5th bearing and not have to worry about the crank at all? In the
> overall grand scheme (or cost) of things, $1000 is not that much....
>
> Ryan
>
> On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 9:25 AM, Charles Campbell
> wrote:
> Kip, I was considering the full WW conversion except for the 5th
> bearing. The engines without the 5th bearing operated OK for years.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Kip and Beth Gardner
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2010 9:01 AM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Engine
>
> On political comment boards, 'encouraging them' is known as 'feeding
> the trolls' - it's like at the zoo - no feeding the animals! :)
>
> To be fair, there have been some issues that have come up over the
> years with regards to William Wynne's conversion, but he's been good
> about addressing them (costs more $, but they are addressed). Most
> of the issues arise from the fact that WW has modified the engine to
> put out higher HP (he claims 100hp), changing the torque curve by
> using a different cam.
>
> The problems come from the fact that the lack of a support bearing
> at the prop end has resulted in a few snapped crank failures in high
> stress applications (mostly Corvairs installed in KR's). This is
> fixed by the addition of a 5th bearing, of which there are a couple
> after market choices that have been developed specifically for the
> aircraft conversion. Roy's Garage in Michigan is one example.
>
> Bernard, of course used a largely unmodified Corvair in his "Last
> Original". You could do the same by doing a basic WW conversion but
> leaving in the original cam, and setting up a pressure cowl for
> cooling (thus allowing you to take out the blower fan) and probably
> get 50-60hp without (or at least fewer) concerns about the crank
> failing. After all, "The Last Original" has been flying
> continuously for nearly 50 years now. For myself, I'm going the
> full WW conversion route, with a 5th bearing from Roy's, because I
> think his 5th bearing design is the best and easiest to incorporate
> into the engine.
>
> Kip Gardner
>
> On Dec 21, 2010, at 8:24 AM, Gary Boothe wrote:
>
>> Chuck,
>> PLEASE do not encourage them! You are on a good path. Become a WW
>> student, and enjoy the process of building your own engine, too.
>> Are you also on the Corvair List? There are a bunch of flying
>> Pietenpols with Corvairs, including the Bell boys, all the Big
>> Piets, PF Beck, Gardiner Mason, Axel Purtee just to name a few.
>> There are a bunch more that will become airborne in a year or two.
>> I think most comments are meant in jest, as in the following, as
>> requested by Dan Helsper (thanks to John Hoffman):
>> http://gallery.me.com/johnnyskyrocket#100017
>> BTW=85Dan Helsper and PF Beck are also accomplished prop carvers.
>> Wanna=92 start another debate about the pros & cons of carving your
>> own prop? How about laminating your own struts, like Axel?.....
>> Now look what you=92ve done! You got me started=85..
>> Painting with house paint, raising the turtledecks, modifying the
>> center section, using motorcycle wheels, rear control stick push
>> rods=85.the list goes on.
>> Point is: FAA calls it =91EXPERIMENTAL=92 for a very good reason. I
>> say, =93Go ahead and experiment. It=92s your dream.=94
>> Gary Boothe
>> Cool, Ca.
>> Pietenpol (with laminated struts!)
>> WW Corvair Conversion, Running!
>> Tail done, Fuselage on gear
>> (23 ribs down=85)
>>
>> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> >
>> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>> Sent: Tue Dec 21 05:43:24 2010
>> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Engine
>>
>> I have perceived some anti-Corvair bias on the list. Is this for
>> real? I plan to use a Corvair engine in my Piet but if there is
>> some REAL fault with the engine I need to know it now. Is the bias
>> real or just done in jest? =46rom watching William Wynne's videos I
>> can't see anything that would cause the bias unless it's just
>> jealousy.
>> Chuck
>>
>>
>> www.buildersbooks.com
>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>> http://forums.matronics.com
>> Confidentiality Notice: This email is intended for the sole use of
>> the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential, proprietary
>> or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient,
>> you are notified that any use, review, dissemination, copying or
>> action taken based on this message or its attachments, if any, is
>> prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact
>> the sender by reply email and destroy or delete all copies of the
>> original message and any attachments. Thank you.
>>
>>
>> style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;
>> ">www.aeroelectric.com
>>
>> href="http://www.buildersbooks.com" style="color: blue; text-
>> decoration: underline; ">www.buildersbooks.com
>> style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;
">www.homebuilthelp.com
>> style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;
">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List"
>> style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;
">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>> blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://forums.matronics.com
>
>
> href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
> href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
> href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
>
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/ch
ref=
>
"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.c
om/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>
>
> _blank">www.aeroelectric.com
> .com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
> ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> tp://forums.matronics.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: runway length? |
| From: | "TriScout" <apfelcyber(at)yahoo.com> |
Nice! Shouldn't be a factor.. Just put an I0-540 on the Piet
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324028#324028
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kip and Beth Gardner <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Corvair Engine |
One last comment, and something else not mentioned by anyone. Namely,
it's easy to put electric start on the Corvair. Now I know this will
send all the purists into apoplectic fits, BUT as a Lefty, and
therefore by definition something of a Klutz, I don't relish the
thought of doing a jig in front of (or even to the side of) a large
moving piece of wood. Putting an electrical system of a C-85 or C-90
is a bit more costly, I've heard.
Kip
On Dec 21, 2010, at 10:44 AM, Ryan Mueller wrote:
> If you are going to do the full boat WW conversion.....and probably
> looking at in the ballpark of $6000 to $7000 for your conversion/
> overhaul.....why not spend another grand for at least the Weseman
> BTA 5th bearing and not have to worry about the crank at all? In the
> overall grand scheme (or cost) of things, $1000 is not that much....
>
> Ryan
>
> On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 9:25 AM, Charles Campbell
> wrote:
> Kip, I was considering the full WW conversion except for the 5th
> bearing. The engines without the 5th bearing operated OK for years.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Kip and Beth Gardner
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2010 9:01 AM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Engine
>
> On political comment boards, 'encouraging them' is known as 'feeding
> the trolls' - it's like at the zoo - no feeding the animals! :)
>
> To be fair, there have been some issues that have come up over the
> years with regards to William Wynne's conversion, but he's been good
> about addressing them (costs more $, but they are addressed). Most
> of the issues arise from the fact that WW has modified the engine to
> put out higher HP (he claims 100hp), changing the torque curve by
> using a different cam.
>
> The problems come from the fact that the lack of a support bearing
> at the prop end has resulted in a few snapped crank failures in high
> stress applications (mostly Corvairs installed in KR's). This is
> fixed by the addition of a 5th bearing, of which there are a couple
> after market choices that have been developed specifically for the
> aircraft conversion. Roy's Garage in Michigan is one example.
>
> Bernard, of course used a largely unmodified Corvair in his "Last
> Original". You could do the same by doing a basic WW conversion but
> leaving in the original cam, and setting up a pressure cowl for
> cooling (thus allowing you to take out the blower fan) and probably
> get 50-60hp without (or at least fewer) concerns about the crank
> failing. After all, "The Last Original" has been flying
> continuously for nearly 50 years now. For myself, I'm going the
> full WW conversion route, with a 5th bearing from Roy's, because I
> think his 5th bearing design is the best and easiest to incorporate
> into the engine.
>
> Kip Gardner
>
> On Dec 21, 2010, at 8:24 AM, Gary Boothe wrote:
>
>> Chuck,
>> PLEASE do not encourage them! You are on a good path. Become a WW
>> student, and enjoy the process of building your own engine, too.
>> Are you also on the Corvair List? There are a bunch of flying
>> Pietenpols with Corvairs, including the Bell boys, all the Big
>> Piets, PF Beck, Gardiner Mason, Axel Purtee just to name a few.
>> There are a bunch more that will become airborne in a year or two.
>> I think most comments are meant in jest, as in the following, as
>> requested by Dan Helsper (thanks to John Hoffman):
>> http://gallery.me.com/johnnyskyrocket#100017
>> BTW=85Dan Helsper and PF Beck are also accomplished prop carvers.
>> Wanna=92 start another debate about the pros & cons of carving your
>> own prop? How about laminating your own struts, like Axel?.....
>> Now look what you=92ve done! You got me started=85..
>> Painting with house paint, raising the turtledecks, modifying the
>> center section, using motorcycle wheels, rear control stick push
>> rods=85.the list goes on.
>> Point is: FAA calls it =91EXPERIMENTAL=92 for a very good reason. I
>> say, =93Go ahead and experiment. It=92s your dream.=94
>> Gary Boothe
>> Cool, Ca.
>> Pietenpol (with laminated struts!)
>> WW Corvair Conversion, Running!
>> Tail done, Fuselage on gear
>> (23 ribs down=85)
>>
>> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> >
>> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>> Sent: Tue Dec 21 05:43:24 2010
>> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Engine
>>
>> I have perceived some anti-Corvair bias on the list. Is this for
>> real? I plan to use a Corvair engine in my Piet but if there is
>> some REAL fault with the engine I need to know it now. Is the bias
>> real or just done in jest? =46rom watching William Wynne's videos I
>> can't see anything that would cause the bias unless it's just
>> jealousy.
>> Chuck
>>
>>
>> www.buildersbooks.com
>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>> http://forums.matronics.com
>> Confidentiality Notice: This email is intended for the sole use of
>> the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential, proprietary
>> or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient,
>> you are notified that any use, review, dissemination, copying or
>> action taken based on this message or its attachments, if any, is
>> prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact
>> the sender by reply email and destroy or delete all copies of the
>> original message and any attachments. Thank you.
>>
>>
>> style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;
>> ">www.aeroelectric.com
>>
>> href="http://www.buildersbooks.com" style="color: blue; text-
>> decoration: underline; ">www.buildersbooks.com
>> style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;
">www.homebuilthelp.com
>> style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;
">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List"
>> style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;
">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>> blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://forums.matronics.com
>
>
> href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
> href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
> href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
>
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/ch
ref=
>
"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.c
om/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>
>
> _blank">www.aeroelectric.com
> .com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
> ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> tp://forums.matronics.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Corvair Engine |
| From: | gboothe5(at)comcast.net |
S2lwLA0KDQpJIGhhdmUgYSAyMCBsYiBodW5rIG9mIGxlYWQgSSdsbCBzZWxsIHRvIHlvdSBmb3Ig
JDUwMCEgOy0pDQoNCkdhcnkNCkRvIG5vdCBhcmNoaXZlDQpTZW50IG9uIHRoZSBTcHJpbnSuIE5v
dyBOZXR3b3JrIGZyb20gbXkgQmxhY2tCZXJyea4NCg0KLS0tLS1PcmlnaW5hbCBNZXNzYWdlLS0t
LS0NCkZyb206IEtpcCBhbmQgQmV0aCBHYXJkbmVyIDxraXBhbmRiZXRoQGVhcnRobGluay5uZXQ+
DQpTZW5kZXI6IG93bmVyLXBpZXRlbnBvbC1saXN0LXNlcnZlckBtYXRyb25pY3MuY29tDQpEYXRl
OiBUdWUsIDIxIERlYyAyMDEwIDEwOjU5OjI1IA0KVG86IDxwaWV0ZW5wb2wtbGlzdEBtYXRyb25p
Y3MuY29tPg0KUmVwbHktVG86IHBpZXRlbnBvbC1saXN0QG1hdHJvbmljcy5jb21TdWJqZWN0OiBS
ZTogUGlldGVucG9sLUxpc3Q6IENvcnZhaXIgRW5naW5lDQoNCg0K
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Corvair Engine |
| From: | Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com> |
'lectric start is definitely a nice thing to have on a Corvair.....while yo
u
can hand prop the engine, it is far easier and safer to just get in and pus
h
the button. While I don't dispute the costs of adding a starter to a small
Continental that does not come with one, it is also nowhere near
the necessity on those engines that it is on the Corvair. Hand-propping a
small Continental is a relative non-event compared to hand-propping a
Corvair. (cough cough Yocum cough cough)
Ryan
On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 10:10 AM, Kip and Beth Gardner <
kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net> wrote:
> One last comment, and something else not mentioned by anyone. Namely, it
's
> easy to put electric start on the Corvair. Now I know this will send all
> the purists into apoplectic fits, BUT as a Lefty, and therefore by
> definition something of a Klutz, I don't relish the thought of doing a ji
g
> in front of (or even to the side of) a large moving piece of wood. Putti
ng
> an electrical system of a C-85 or C-90 is a bit more costly, I've heard.
>
> Kip
>
> On Dec 21, 2010, at 10:44 AM, Ryan Mueller wrote:
>
> If you are going to do the full boat WW conversion.....and probably looki
ng
> at in the ballpark of $6000 to $7000 for your conversion/overhaul.....why
> not spend another grand for at least the Weseman BTA 5th bearing and not
> have to worry about the crank at all? In the overall grand scheme (or cos
t)
> of things, $1000 is not that much....
>
> Ryan
>
> On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 9:25 AM, Charles Campbell <
> cncampbell(at)windstream.net> wrote:
>
>> Kip, I was considering the full WW conversion except for the 5th
>> bearing. The engines without the 5th bearing operated OK for years.
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> *From:* Kip and Beth Gardner
>> *To:* pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 21, 2010 9:01 AM
>> *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Engine
>>
>> On political comment boards, 'encouraging them' is known as 'feeding the
>> trolls' - it's like at the zoo - no feeding the animals! :)
>>
>> To be fair, there have been some issues that have come up over the years
>> with regards to William Wynne's conversion, but he's been good about
>> addressing them (costs more $, but they are addressed). Most of the iss
ues
>> arise from the fact that WW has modified the engine to put out higher HP
(he
>> claims 100hp), changing the torque curve by using a different cam.
>>
>> The problems come from the fact that the lack of a support bearing at th
e
>> prop end has resulted in a few snapped crank failures in high stress
>> applications (mostly Corvairs installed in KR's). This is fixed by the
>> addition of a 5th bearing, of which there are a couple after market choi
ces
>> that have been developed specifically for the aircraft conversion. Roy'
s
>> Garage in Michigan is one example.
>>
>> Bernard, of course used a largely unmodified Corvair in his "Last
>> Original". You could do the same by doing a basic WW conversion but lea
ving
>> in the original cam, and setting up a pressure cowl for cooling (thus
>> allowing you to take out the blower fan) and probably get 50-60hp withou
t
>> (or at least fewer) concerns about the crank failing. After all, "The L
ast
>> Original" has been flying continuously for nearly 50 years now. For
>> myself, I'm going the full WW conversion route, with a 5th bearing from
>> Roy's, because I think his 5th bearing design is the best and easiest to
>> incorporate into the engine.
>>
>> Kip Gardner
>>
>> On Dec 21, 2010, at 8:24 AM, Gary Boothe wrote:
>>
>> Chuck,
>> PLEASE do not encourage them! You are on a good path. Become a WW
>> student, and enjoy the process of building your own engine, too. Are you
>> also on the Corvair List? There are a bunch of flying Pietenpols with
>> Corvairs, including the Bell boys, all the Big Piets, PF Beck, Gardiner
>> Mason, Axel Purtee just to name a few. There are a bunch more that will
>> become airborne in a year or two. I think most comments are meant in jes
t,
>> as in the following, as requested by Dan Helsper (thanks to John Hoffman
):
>> http://gallery.me.com/johnnyskyrocket#100017
>> BTW=85Dan Helsper and PF Beck are also accomplished prop carvers. Wanna
=92
>> start another debate about the pros & cons of carving your own prop? How
>> about laminating your own struts, like Axel?.....
>> Now look what you=92ve done! You got me started=85..
>> Painting with house paint, raising the turtledecks, modifying the cente
r
>> section, using motorcycle wheels, rear control stick push rods=85.the li
st
>> goes on.
>> Point is: FAA calls it =91EXPERIMENTAL=92 for a very good reason. I say
, =93Go
>> ahead and experiment. It=92s your dream.=94
>>
>> Gary Boothe
>> Cool, Ca.
>> Pietenpol (with laminated struts!)
>> WW Corvair Conversion, Running!
>> Tail done, Fuselage on gear
>> (23 ribs down=85)
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> *From*: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com <
>> owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com>
>> *To*: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>> *Sent*: Tue Dec 21 05:43:24 2010
>> *Subject*: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Engine
>> I have perceived some anti-Corvair bias on the list. Is this for real?
>> I plan to use a Corvair engine in my Piet but if there is some REAL faul
t
>> with the engine I need to know it now. Is the bias real or just done in
>> jest? From watching William Wynne's videos I can't see anything that wo
uld
>> cause the bias unless it's just jealousy.
>> Chuck
>>
>> * *
>>
>> * *
>>
>> **
>>
>> **
>>
>> **
>>
>> **
>>
>> *www.buildersbooks.com*
>>
>> **
>>
>> **
>>
>> **
>>
>> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List*
>>
>> **
>>
>> **
>>
>> *http://forums.matronics.com*
>>
>> **
>>
>> Confidentiality Notice: This email is intended for the sole use of the
>> intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential, proprietary or
>> privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, you are
>> notified that any use, review, dissemination, copying or action taken ba
sed
>> on this message or its attachments, if any, is prohibited. If you are no
t
>> the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply email and des
troy
>> or delete all copies of the original message and any attachments. Thank
you.
>>
>> *
>>
>> style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">www.aeroelectric.com
>>
>> href="http://www.buildersbooks.com" style="color: blue; text-decorat
ion: underline; ">www.buildersbooks.com
>> style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">www.homebuilthelp.co
m
>> style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://www.matronics
.com/contribution
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List" style="colo
r: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?P
ietenpol-List
>> blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://forums.matronics.com
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>> href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
>> href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
>> href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/
chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matr
onics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com*
>>
>> *
>>
>> _blank">www.aeroelectric.com
>> .com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
>> ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>> tp://forums.matronics.com*
>>
>>
> *
>
> href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
> href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
> href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
ontribution
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com*
>
>
> *
>
===========
===========
===========
============*
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dnboyd1(at)comcast.net |
| Subject: | Thanks for the encouragement |
I like to extend 'Thanks' to the following guys who made helpful=C2-input
s about the Stewart Covering System.=C2-=C2- This is my first plane so
I have had a huge learning curve in all the areas of expertise.=C2- I've
ordered it and will keep you posted on how it works out.
Thanks to:=C2- Jeff Erekson,=C2- Rick Holland,=C2- Malcom Morrison,
=C2- Dangerous Dave,=C2- and Dan Helsper.
Merrry Christmas and Happy New Year!
Dave Boyd
Champaign, IL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Corvair Engine |
Thank you, them's my sentiments exactly. I never worried much about engine
failure. Quite a bit of my flying has been over open water (ocean) and the
only time I heard strange sounds from the engine compartment was on my first
few night flights. After that everything was cool.
----- Original Message -----
From: "kevinpurtee" <kevin.purtee(at)us.army.mil>
Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2010 10:23 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Corvair Engine
>
>
> Hi Chuck - I've got a rule of thumb: if it keeps me up at night I won't do
> it. Example - the one thing that kept me up during construction was my
> landing gear wheels and axles. I changed them from my flimsy,
> motorcycle-based design to a much stouter setup. My corvair did not, and
> does not, keep me up at night. That's no guarantee it won't quit, it just
> shows where I put the corvair in the risk management equation.
>
> A couple of things I do personally to mitigate the risks of flying with a
> non-aircraft engine: I occasionally do landings with the engine turned
> off, I try to make all landings with the engine at idle, and I fly over
> places where I can land if the motor does quit. Probably a good idea to
> do those things in any aircraft.
>
> Jack's point about the mountains is a good one. My
> Austin/Brodhead/Oshkosh/Austin trip last year was planned over very
> forgiving ground, for both engine out scenarios and for
> recovering-the-plane-after-the-engine-out scenarios.
>
> I would not steer you away from the corvair. Fat Bottomed Girl's been
> flying 14 months and I intend to fly the 176th uneventful hour on
> Thursday.
>
> BTW: the words "Aviation Safety" are actually in my job title. I'm
> familiar with managing risk.
>
> For what it's worth, my friend.
>
> Axel
>
> --------
> Kevin "Axel" Purtee
> NX899KP
> Austin/Georgetown, TX
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324022#324022
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "AmsafetyC(at)aol.com" <AmsafetyC(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Corvair Engine |
At all in for 8 k why not buy a used aircraft engine at around 800 to 1000
hours ? Following the advice of Tony B it makes good sense, unless you're in
for a bit more adventure than safe reliability.
Juss axin
John
Sent via DROID on Verizon Wireless
-----Original message-----
From: Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Tue, Dec 21, 2010 16:09:11 GMT+00:00
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Engine
If you are going to do the full boat WW conversion.....and probably looking
at in the ballpark of $6000 to $7000 for your conversion/overhaul.....why
not spend another grand for at least the Weseman BTA 5th bearing and not
have to worry about the crank at all? In the overall grand scheme (or cost)
of things, $1000 is not that much....
Ryan
On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 9:25 AM, Charles Campbell wrote:
> Kip, I was considering the full WW conversion except for the 5th
> bearing. The engines without the 5th bearing operated OK for years.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Kip and Beth Gardner
> *To:* pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 21, 2010 9:01 AM
> *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Engine
>
> On political comment boards, 'encouraging them' is known as 'feeding the
> trolls' - it's like at the zoo - no feeding the animals! :)
>
> To be fair, there have been some issues that have come up over the years
> with regards to William Wynne's conversion, but he's been good about
> addressing them (costs more $, but they are addressed). Most of the
issues
> arise from the fact that WW has modified the engine to put out higher HP
(he
> claims 100hp), changing the torque curve by using a different cam.
>
> The problems come from the fact that the lack of a support bearing at the
> prop end has resulted in a few snapped crank failures in high stress
> applications (mostly Corvairs i
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "AmsafetyC(at)aol.com" <AmsafetyC(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Corvair Engine |
At all in for 8 k why not buy a used aircraft engine at around 800 to 1000
hours ? Following the advice of Tony B it makes good sense, unless you're in
for a bit more adventure than safe reliability.
Juss axin
John
Sent via DROID on Verizon Wireless
-----Original message-----
From: Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Tue, Dec 21, 2010 16:09:11 GMT+00:00
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Engine
If you are going to do the full boat WW conversion.....and probably looking
at in the ballpark of $6000 to $7000 for your conversion/overhaul.....why
not spend another grand for at least the Weseman BTA 5th bearing and not
have to worry about the crank at all? In the overall grand scheme (or cost)
of things, $1000 is not that much....
Ryan
On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 9:25 AM, Charles Campbell wrote:
> Kip, I was considering the full WW conversion except for the 5th
> bearing. The engines without the 5th bearing operated OK for years.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Kip and Beth Gardner
> *To:* pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 21, 2010 9:01 AM
> *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Engine
>
> On political comment boards, 'encouraging them' is known as 'feeding the
> trolls' - it's like at the zoo - no feeding the animals! :)
>
> To be fair, there have been some issues that have come up over the years
> with regards to William Wynne's conversion, but he's been good about
> addressing them (costs more $, but they are addressed). Most of the
issues
> arise from the fact that WW has modified the engine to put out higher HP
(he
> claims 100hp), changing the torque curve by using a different cam.
>
> The problems come from the fact that the lack of a support bearing at the
> prop end has resulted in a few snapped crank failures in high stress
> applications (mostly Corvairs i
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Corvair Engine |
Kip, I will seriously consider that option when I get to it. Thanks.
----- Original Message -----
From: Kip and Beth Gardner
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2010 11:10 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Engine
One last comment, and something else not mentioned by anyone. Namely,
it's easy to put electric start on the Corvair. Now I know this will
send all the purists into apoplectic fits, BUT as a Lefty, and therefore
by definition something of a Klutz, I don't relish the thought of doing
a jig in front of (or even to the side of) a large moving piece of wood.
Putting an electrical system of a C-85 or C-90 is a bit more costly,
I've heard.
Kip
On Dec 21, 2010, at 10:44 AM, Ryan Mueller wrote:
If you are going to do the full boat WW conversion.....and probably
looking at in the ballpark of $6000 to $7000 for your
conversion/overhaul.....why not spend another grand for at least the
Weseman BTA 5th bearing and not have to worry about the crank at all? In
the overall grand scheme (or cost) of things, $1000 is not that much....
Ryan
On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 9:25 AM, Charles Campbell
wrote:
Kip, I was considering the full WW conversion except for the 5th
bearing. The engines without the 5th bearing operated OK for years.
----- Original Message -----
From: Kip and Beth Gardner
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2010 9:01 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Engine
On political comment boards, 'encouraging them' is known as
'feeding the trolls' - it's like at the zoo - no feeding the animals!
:)
To be fair, there have been some issues that have come up over
the years with regards to William Wynne's conversion, but he's been good
about addressing them (costs more $, but they are addressed). Most of
the issues arise from the fact that WW has modified the engine to put
out higher HP (he claims 100hp), changing the torque curve by using a
different cam.
The problems come from the fact that the lack of a support
bearing at the prop end has resulted in a few snapped crank failures in
high stress applications (mostly Corvairs installed in KR's). This is
fixed by the addition of a 5th bearing, of which there are a couple
after market choices that have been developed specifically for the
aircraft conversion. Roy's Garage in Michigan is one example.
Bernard, of course used a largely unmodified Corvair in his
"Last Original". You could do the same by doing a basic WW conversion
but leaving in the original cam, and setting up a pressure cowl for
cooling (thus allowing you to take out the blower fan) and probably get
50-60hp without (or at least fewer) concerns about the crank failing.
After all, "The Last Original" has been flying continuously for nearly
50 years now. For myself, I'm going the full WW conversion route, with
a 5th bearing from Roy's, because I think his 5th bearing design is the
best and easiest to incorporate into the engine.
Kip Gardner
On Dec 21, 2010, at 8:24 AM, Gary Boothe wrote:
Chuck,
PLEASE do not encourage them! You are on a good path. Become a
WW student, and enjoy the process of building your own engine, too. Are
you also on the Corvair List? There are a bunch of flying Pietenpols
with Corvairs, including the Bell boys, all the Big Piets, PF Beck,
Gardiner Mason, Axel Purtee just to name a few. There are a bunch more
that will become airborne in a year or two. I think most comments are
meant in jest, as in the following, as requested by Dan Helsper (thanks
to John Hoffman):
http://gallery.me.com/johnnyskyrocket#100017
BTW=85Dan Helsper and PF Beck are also accomplished prop
carvers. Wanna=92 start another debate about the pros & cons of carving
your own prop? How about laminating your own struts, like Axel?.....
Now look what you=92ve done! You got me started=85..
Painting with house paint, raising the turtledecks, modifying
the center section, using motorcycle wheels, rear control stick push
rods=85.the list goes on.
Point is: FAA calls it =91EXPERIMENTAL=92 for a very good
reason. I say, =93Go ahead and experiment. It=92s your dream.=94
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol (with laminated struts!)
WW Corvair Conversion, Running!
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(23 ribs down=85)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tue Dec 21 05:43:24 2010
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Engine
I have perceived some anti-Corvair bias on the list. Is this
for real? I plan to use a Corvair engine in my Piet but if there is
some REAL fault with the engine I need to know it now. Is the bias real
or just done in jest? From watching William Wynne's videos I can't see
anything that would cause the bias unless it's just jealousy.
Chuck
www.buildersbooks.comhttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhtt
p://forums.matronics.comConfidentiality Notice: This email is intended
for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain
confidential, proprietary or privileged information. If you are not the
intended recipient, you are notified that any use, review,
dissemination, copying or action taken based on this message or its
attachments, if any, is prohibited. If you are not the intended
recipient, please contact the sender by reply email and destroy or
delete all copies of the original message and any attachments. Thank
you.
style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">www.aeroelectric.com
href="http://www.buildersbooks.com" style="color: blue;
text-decoration: underline; ">www.buildersbooks.com
style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;
">www.homebuilthelp.com
style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;
">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List"
style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;
">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
_blank">www.aeroelectric.com
.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
ontribution
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Corvair Engine |
| From: | "dgaldrich" <dgaldrich(at)embarqmail.com> |
Jack Textor has a spreadsheet of pretty much all the builders on this list and
has a column for "engine". I didn't count the distribution but it looks like
there are a lot of us, myself included, that are using the Corvair. Some of the
guys using Corvairs in other airframes (Mark Langford and Dan Weseman come
to mind) have abused the crap out of them and the engine stays together pretty
darn well.
Dave Aldrich
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324045#324045
________________________________________________________________________________
December 14, 2010 - December 21, 2010
Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-jw