Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-jx
December 21, 2010 - January 01, 2011
| From: | "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Thanks for the encouragement |
I think it was Dan who sent me a message about glueing the under side of
the wing to get the fabric to stick to the concave shape until rib
stitching. Dan, if that was you maybe you should send it to Dave before
he gets carried away and tightens everything up before the under side is
done.
----- Original Message -----
From: dnboyd1(at)comcast.net
To: pietenpol-list
Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2010 11:31 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Thanks for the encouragement
I like to extend 'Thanks' to the following guys who made helpful
inputs about the Stewart Covering System. This is my first plane so I
have had a huge learning curve in all the areas of expertise. I've
ordered it and will keep you posted on how it works out.
Thanks to: Jeff Erekson, Rick Holland, Malcom Morrison, Dangerous
Dave, and Dan Helsper.
Merrry Christmas and Happy New Year!
Dave Boyd
Champaign, IL
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack" <jack(at)textors.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Corvair Engine |
Yes a 0 time C85 is possible for under 6K, including generator and starter.
Jack
DSM
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kip and Beth
Gardner
Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2010 8:35 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Engine
Of course, as Jack will attest, aircraft engines never fail. :). I also
recall Amy Laboda, back when she was writing for EAA, doing a column about
how the crank snapped on takeoff on her big, old reliable
Continental-powered Cessna, putting her & her 2 daughters into Biscayne Bay.
It's flying, sh** can happen no matter what your choice of aircraft, engine,
etc.
The other thing to consider is that even with the 5th bearing, if you are
good at doing your own work, a zero-time Corvair conversion will cost you
about 6K. For that amount, you might get an A-65 overhauled, but how many
guys on this list have A-65's, and have concerns about flying on hot days,
or carrying passengers who weigh more than about 180lbs., or worry about the
length of their runways, etc. etc. ? Can you get a C-85 or C-95 rebuilt to
zero time for 6K? I'm not sure, but that would be the appropriate
comparison. (On a different, but related note, Oscar, how IS the C-85
working out? Better, I hope).
This is the debate that will NEVER die :)
Kip Gardner
On Dec 21, 2010, at 9:07 AM, Jack Phillips wrote:
Chuck,
Yes it is in jest, mostly. If I lived in the midwest, I would probably have
built my Piet with a Model A, because I really like the look and sound
(pockity, pockity) of that engine. However, for me reliability is key,
flying above the forests of North Carolina and the mountains of Virginia,
and I'm just not a fan of auto engine conversions for aircraft. The design
requirements are simply too different.
Car engines are not designed to operate anywhere near full power for more
than a few seconds at a time, whereas an aircraft engine must be capable of
full power continuously. That's why Corvairs require such little tricks as
painting the pushrod tubes white to try to keep the oil down to a manageable
temperature. Putting that engine in an airplane is asking it to do
something it was simply not designed to do. Now the Corvair guys are adding
a 5th main bearing (at significant expense, negating the supposed cost
advantage of using a car engine to begin with) to handle the loads that a
propeller puts on the crankshaft. There have been numerous cases of
crankshafts breaking in Corvairs in aircraft, although I don't know of any
in a Pietenpol, other than Shad Bell's.
Car engines (other than the Model A) also tend to get their power at higher
RPMs than are useful for driving propellers. Props really loose efficiency
when the tips start going supersonic (to say nothing of being VERY noisy -
ever hear a T-6 takeoff?) and with the size props used on planes of our size
that happens at about 2500 RPM. Power generated at speeds faster than that
is not very useful and there needs to be substantial torque in the 2000 -
2500 RPM range. That's why so many auto engine conversions require gearing
to reduce the propeller speed, which adds cost, weight and complexity, and
hurts reliablity.
As Gary says, these are EXPERIMENTAL airplanes, so you are free to do as you
wish. Just realize that in this as in most decisions made in building an
airplane, there are tradeoffs. Reliability is not something I choose to
trade away, if I can help it.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Raleigh, NC
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Boothe
Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2010 8:24 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Engine
Chuck,
PLEASE do not encourage them! You are on a good path. Become a WW student,
and enjoy the process of building your own engine, too. Are you also on the
Corvair List? There are a bunch of flying Pietenpols with Corvairs,
including the Bell boys, all the Big Piets, PF Beck, Gardiner Mason, Axel
Purtee just to name a few. There are a bunch more that will become airborne
in a year or two. I think most comments are meant in jest, as in the
following, as requested by Dan Helsper (thanks to John Hoffman):
http://gallery.me.com/johnnyskyrocket#100017
BTW.Dan Helsper and PF Beck are also accomplished prop carvers. Wanna' start
another debate about the pros & cons of carving your own prop? How about
laminating your own struts, like Axel?.....
Now look what you've done! You got me started...
Painting with house paint, raising the turtledecks, modifying the center
section, using motorcycle wheels, rear control stick push rods..the list
goes on.
Point is: FAA calls it 'EXPERIMENTAL' for a very good reason. I say, "Go
ahead and experiment. It's your dream."
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol (with laminated struts!)
WW Corvair Conversion, Running!
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(23 ribs down.)
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tue Dec 21 05:43:24 2010
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Engine
I have perceived some anti-Corvair bias on the list. Is this for real? I
plan to use a Corvair engine in my Piet but if there is some REAL fault with
the engine I need to know it now. Is the bias real or just done in jest?
>From watching William Wynne's videos I can't see anything that would cause
the bias unless it's just jealousy.
Chuck
style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">www.aeroelectric.com
href="http://www.buildersbooks.com" style="color: blue; text-decoration:
underline; ">www.buildersbooks.com
style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">www.homebuilthelp.com
style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;
">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List" style="color: blue;
text-decoration: underline;
">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://forums.matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Corvair Engine |
| From: | "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca> |
My observations (and they are just that - observations) at the Brodhead Pietenpol
gatherings are that the majority of Piets that attend tend to be powered by
"traditional" aircraft engines - mostly Continentals. Over the last seven or
so gatherings that I've attended, I can probably count on one hand the aircraft
that were powered by Corvair engines (although they are increasing in numbers
of late). Ford Model A powered Piets have been slightly more common than the
Corvairs.
However, in following this List, it certainly seems that a majority of new builders
talk about powering their craft with Corvairs. Only time will tell how many
will complete their projects, and of those that complete, how many will follow
through with the Corvair choice. I know of several builders (myself included)
who originally planned to use Corvair power, and changed that plan mid-stream
(for various reasons).
For years, one of the big drawing cards for the Corvair was its simplicity and
low cost. Now, with the introduction of the recommended fifth bearing, the Corvair
is a little more complicated and definitely a bit more expensive. On the
other hand, the fifth bearing seems to have eliminated a lot of the reliability
issues. Peace of mind is worth a LOT of dollars.
The choice is yours.
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324051#324051
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Corvair Engine |
| From: | "kevinpurtee" <kevin.purtee(at)us.army.mil> |
I love beating a dead horse...
Chuck - This may be a better answer to your initial question: if I were starting
again I would likely use the $6000, 0 time C-85 with starter and generator that
Bill Church mentions. I don't think I have $6000 in the motor but I think
we'd be getting close with the fifth bearing.
I'm thoroughly satisfied with my corvair and do not regret the choice.
Now if I could just get it to provide thrust at night! (that was funny, Bill)
--------
Kevin "Axel" Purtee
NX899KP
Austin/Georgetown, TX
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324057#324057
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Sky Scout pix |
| From: | "899PM" <rockriverrifle(at)hotmail.com> |
Here are a couple pix of my old Sky Scout. I bought it as a project, later sold
it to Dennis Hall (Brodhead) who finished it into one of the nicest looking planes
I have ever seen. Dennis' work was flawless!
--------
PAPA MIKE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324063#324063
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/100_1347_480.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/100_1346_610.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Corvair Engine |
| From: | Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
I have about $6000 in my Corvair (without the 5th bearing). Other than just
what you are comfortable with the other main consideration may be resale
value (assuming you care about that). A homebuilt with an aircraft engine
will probably always be worth more one with a car engine. But it seems that
the resale value of flying Piets that require little if any work run from
$10,000 to $12,000 no matter what engine is installed.
rick
On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 12:17 PM, kevinpurtee wrote:
> kevin.purtee(at)us.army.mil>
>
> I love beating a dead horse...
>
> Chuck - This may be a better answer to your initial question: if I were
> starting again I would likely use the $6000, 0 time C-85 with starter and
> generator that Bill Church mentions. I don't think I have $6000 in the
> motor but I think we'd be getting close with the fifth bearing.
>
> I'm thoroughly satisfied with my corvair and do not regret the choice.
>
> Now if I could just get it to provide thrust at night! (that was funny,
> Bill)
>
> --------
> Kevin "Axel" Purtee
> NX899KP
> Austin/Georgetown, TX
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324057#324057
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Corvair Engine |
Jack, I've been having some trouble getting the list to recognise that
my posts are legit. I'll see if this goes through. If it does, let me
know where I can get a 0 time C85 for $6K and I will probably dance at
your next wedding!
----- Original Message -----
From: Jack
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2010 1:20 PM
Subject: RE: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Engine
Yes a 0 time C85 is possible for under 6K, including generator and
starter.
Jack
DSM
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kip and
Beth Gardner
Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2010 8:35 AM
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Engine
Of course, as Jack will attest, aircraft engines never fail. :). I
also recall Amy Laboda, back when she was writing for EAA, doing a
column about how the crank snapped on takeoff on her big, old reliable
Continental-powered Cessna, putting her & her 2 daughters into Biscayne
Bay. It's flying, sh** can happen no matter what your choice of
aircraft, engine, etc.
The other thing to consider is that even with the 5th bearing, if you
are good at doing your own work, a zero-time Corvair conversion will
cost you about 6K. For that amount, you might get an A-65 overhauled,
but how many guys on this list have A-65's, and have concerns about
flying on hot days, or carrying passengers who weigh more than about
180lbs., or worry about the length of their runways, etc. etc. ? Can
you get a C-85 or C-95 rebuilt to zero time for 6K? I'm not sure, but
that would be the appropriate comparison. (On a different, but related
note, Oscar, how IS the C-85 working out? Better, I hope).
This is the debate that will NEVER die :)
Kip Gardner
On Dec 21, 2010, at 9:07 AM, Jack Phillips wrote:
Chuck,
Yes it is in jest, mostly. If I lived in the midwest, I would
probably have built my Piet with a Model A, because I really like the
look and sound (pockity, pockity) of that engine. However, for me
reliability is key, flying above the forests of North Carolina and the
mountains of Virginia, and I'm just not a fan of auto engine conversions
for aircraft. The design requirements are simply too different.
Car engines are not designed to operate anywhere near full power for
more than a few seconds at a time, whereas an aircraft engine must be
capable of full power continuously. That's why Corvairs require such
little tricks as painting the pushrod tubes white to try to keep the oil
down to a manageable temperature. Putting that engine in an airplane is
asking it to do something it was simply not designed to do. Now the
Corvair guys are adding a 5th main bearing (at significant expense,
negating the supposed cost advantage of using a car engine to begin
with) to handle the loads that a propeller puts on the crankshaft.
There have been numerous cases of crankshafts breaking in Corvairs in
aircraft, although I don't know of any in a Pietenpol, other than Shad
Bell's.
Car engines (other than the Model A) also tend to get their power at
higher RPMs than are useful for driving propellers. Props really loose
efficiency when the tips start going supersonic (to say nothing of being
VERY noisy - ever hear a T-6 takeoff?) and with the size props used on
planes of our size that happens at about 2500 RPM. Power generated at
speeds faster than that is not very useful and there needs to be
substantial torque in the 2000 - 2500 RPM range. That's why so many
auto engine conversions require gearing to reduce the propeller speed,
which adds cost, weight and complexity, and hurts reliablity.
As Gary says, these are EXPERIMENTAL airplanes, so you are free to do
as you wish. Just realize that in this as in most decisions made in
building an airplane, there are tradeoffs. Reliability is not something
I choose to trade away, if I can help it.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Raleigh, NC
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary
Boothe
Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2010 8:24 AM
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Engine
Chuck,
PLEASE do not encourage them! You are on a good path. Become a WW
student, and enjoy the process of building your own engine, too. Are you
also on the Corvair List? There are a bunch of flying Pietenpols with
Corvairs, including the Bell boys, all the Big Piets, PF Beck, Gardiner
Mason, Axel Purtee just to name a few. There are a bunch more that will
become airborne in a year or two. I think most comments are meant in
jest, as in the following, as requested by Dan Helsper (thanks to John
Hoffman):
http://gallery.me.com/johnnyskyrocket#100017
BTW.Dan Helsper and PF Beck are also accomplished prop carvers. Wanna'
start another debate about the pros & cons of carving your own prop? How
about laminating your own struts, like Axel?.....
Now look what you've done! You got me started...
Painting with house paint, raising the turtledecks, modifying the
center section, using motorcycle wheels, rear control stick push
rods..the list goes on.
Point is: FAA calls it 'EXPERIMENTAL' for a very good reason. I say,
"Go ahead and experiment. It's your dream."
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol (with laminated struts!)
WW Corvair Conversion, Running!
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(23 ribs down.)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tue Dec 21 05:43:24 2010
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Engine
I have perceived some anti-Corvair bias on the list. Is this for
real? I plan to use a Corvair engine in my Piet but if there is some
REAL fault with the engine I need to know it now. Is the bias real or
just done in jest? From watching William Wynne's videos I can't see
anything that would cause the bias unless it's just jealousy.
Chuck
style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;
">www.aeroelectric.comhref="http://www.buildersbooks.com"
style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;
">www.buildersbooks.comstyle="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;
">www.homebuilthelp.comstyle="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;
">http://www.matronics.com/contributionhref="http://www.matronics.com/N
avigator?Pietenpol-List" style="color: blue; text-decoration:
underline; ">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listblue;
text-decoration: underline; ">http://forums.matronics.com
www.buildersbooks.comhttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhtt
p://forums.matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KM Heide CPO/FAAOP <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Corvair Engine |
True...
=C2-
As a matter of fact, you can buy a prop strike engine with all new componen
ts around 4-5k from Wentworth Avaition. Take it apart, rebuild the engine u
sing a new/rebuilt crank and then you have a new engine for a few thousand
$$$ less.
=C2-
However, you can go to Aeromax Avaition=C2-http://www.aeromaxaviation.com
/aeromax-100-hp-light-aircraft-engine=C2-and buy a kit for $6,500.00 to c
omplete your Corvair.
=C2-
I have followed Bill Clapp on these engines and his kits. He offers some se
t-up different than WW and I like his components better. My opinion is to c
ontact Bill Clapp and visit with him.=C2-I too plan on using a corvair en
gine as I will need extra power to get my extra redundant tissue!
=C2-
--- On Tue, 12/21/10, AmsafetyC(at)aol.com wrote:
From: AmsafetyC(at)aol.com <AmsafetyC(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Engine
Date: Tuesday, December 21, 2010, 10:56 AM
#yiv136870005 #yiv136870005yiv227279818 {word-wrap:break-word;background-c
olor:#ffffff;}
At all in for 8 k why not buy a used aircraft engine at around 800 to 1000
hours ? Following the advice of Tony B it makes good sense, unless you're i
n for a bit more adventure than safe reliability.=C2-=C2-
Juss axin
John
Sent via DROID on Verizon Wireless
-----Original message-----
From: Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Tue, Dec 21, 2010 16:09:11 GMT+00:00
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Engine
If you are going to do the full boat WW conversion.....and probably looking
at in the ballpark of $6000 to $7000 for your conversion/overhaul.....why
not spend another grand for at least the Weseman BTA 5th bearing and not ha
ve to worry about the crank at all? In the overall grand scheme (or cost) o
f things, $1000 is not that much....
Ryan
On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 9:25 AM, Charles Campbell wrote:
Kip, I was considering the full WW conversion except for the 5th bearing.
=C3=82=C2- The engines without the 5th bearing operated OK for years.
----- Original Message -----
From: Kip and Beth Gardner
Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2010 9:01 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Engine
On political comment boards, 'encouraging them' is known as 'feeding the tr
olls' - it's like at the zoo - no feeding the animals! =C3=82=C2-:)
To be fair, there have been some issues that have come up over the years wi
th regards to William Wynne's conversion, but he's been good about addressi
ng them (costs more $, but they are addressed). =C3=82=C2-Most of the iss
ues arise from the fact that WW has modified the engine to put out higher H
P (he claims 100hp), changing the torque curve by using a different cam.
=C3=82=C2-
The problems come from the fact that the lack of a support bearing at the p
rop end has resulted in a few snapped crank failures in high stress applica
tions (mostly Corvairs installed in KR's). =C3=82=C2-This is fixed by the
addition of a 5th bearing, of which there are a couple after market choice
s that have been developed specifically for the aircraft conversion. =C3=82
=C2-Roy's Garage in Michigan is one example. =C3=82=C2-
Bernard, of course used a largely unmodified Corvair in his "Last Original"
. =C3=82=C2-You could do the same by doing a basic WW conversion but leav
ing in the original cam, and setting up a pressure cowl for cooling (thus a
llowing you to take out the blower fan)=C3=82=C2-and probably get 50-60hp
without (or at least fewer) concerns about the crank failing. =C3=82=C2-
After all, "The Last Original" has been flying continuously for nearly 50 y
ears now. =C3=82=C2- For myself, I'm going the full WW conversion route,
with a 5th bearing from Roy's, because I think his 5th bearing design is th
e best and easiest to incorporate into the engine.
Kip Gardner
On Dec 21, 2010, at 8:24 AM, Gary Boothe wrote:
Chuck,
PLEASE do not encourage them! You are on a good path. Become a WW student,
and enjoy the process of building your own engine, too. Are you also on the
Corvair List? There are a bunch of flying Pietenpols with Corvairs, includ
ing the Bell boys, all the Big Piets, PF Beck, Gardiner Mason, Axel Purtee
just to name a few. There are a bunch more that will become airborne in a y
ear or two. I think most comments are meant in jest, as in the following, a
s requested by Dan Helsper (thanks to John Hoffman):
http://gallery.me.com/johnnyskyrocket#100017
BTW=C3=A2=82=AC=C2Dan Helsper and PF Beck are also accomplished prop
carvers. Wanna=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2 start another debate about the pros
& cons of carving your own prop? How about laminating your own struts, like
Axel?.....
Now look what you=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2ve done! You got me started=C3=A2
=82=AC=C2..
Painting with house paint, raising the turtledecks, modifying the center se
ction, using motorcycle wheels, rear control stick push rods=C3=A2=82=AC
=C2.the list goes on.
Point is: FAA calls it =C3=A2=82=AC=CB=9CEXPERIMENTAL=C3=A2=82=AC
=84=A2 for a very good reason. I say, =C3=A2=82=AC=C5=93Go ahead and exp
eriment. It=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2s your dream.=C3=A2=82=AC=EF=BD
Gary Boothe=C3=82=C2-
Cool, Ca.=C3=82=C2-
Pietenpol=C3=82=C2-(with laminated struts!)
WW Corvair Conversion,=C3=82=C2-Running!=C3=82=C2-
Tail done,=C3=82=C2-Fuselage=C3=82=C2-on gear=C3=82=C2-
(23 ribs down=C3=A2=82=AC=C2)
From:=C3=82=C2-owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com=C3=82=C2-=C3=82=C2-
To:=C3=82=C2-pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com=C3=82=C2-=C3=82=C2-
Sent: Tue Dec 21 05:43:24 2010
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Engine
I have perceived some anti-Corvair bias on the list.=C3=82=C2- Is this fo
r real?=C3=82=C2- I plan to use a Corvair engine in my Piet but if there
is some REAL fault with the engine I need to know it now.=C3=82=C2- Is th
e bias real or just done in jest?=C3=82=C2- From watching William Wynne's
videos I can't see anything that would cause the bias unless it's just jea
lousy.
Chuck=C3=82=C2-=C3=82=C2-www.buildersbooks.com
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhttp://forums.matronics.co
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=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Corvair Engine |
| From: | Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
Even though aircraft engines are probably the most logical choice for any
aircraft and are exteamly reliable, after reading Mr. Peek's book "The
Pietenpol Story" and thinking about what Bernard did, it just seemed to me
to be more in the spirit of things to use a Model A or Corvair.
Plus every time I would see a "genuine aircraft" 60 year old cylinder
selling for $900 I would think "I ain't paying $900 for some stinkin1940s
relic of the internal combustion stone age", even though I could afford it.
Pretty bold talk I know for a Piet builder that has not yet flown. And who
knows after the fight couple flights I may end up pulling the Corvair,
dumping it off at the junkyard where I got it and start scanning
Trade-A-Plane for a good O-200. But based on the number of successful
corvair conversions flying I doubt it.
rick
On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 6:24 AM, Gary Boothe wrote:
> Chuck,
>
>
> PLEASE do not encourage them! You are on a good path. Become a WW student
,
> and enjoy the process of building your own engine, too. Are you also on t
he
> Corvair List? There are a bunch of flying Pietenpols with Corvairs,
> including the Bell boys, all the Big Piets, PF Beck, Gardiner Mason, Axel
> Purtee just to name a few. There are a bunch more that will become airbor
ne
> in a year or two. I think most comments are meant in jest, as in the
> following, as requested by Dan Helsper (thanks to John Hoffman):
>
>
> http://gallery.me.com/johnnyskyrocket#100017
>
>
> BTW=85Dan Helsper and PF Beck are also accomplished prop carvers. Wanna
=92
> start another debate about the pros & cons of carving your own prop? How
> about laminating your own struts, like Axel?.....
>
>
> Now look what you=92ve done! You got me started=85..
>
>
> Painting with house paint, raising the turtledecks, modifying the center
> section, using motorcycle wheels, rear control stick push rods=85.the lis
t
> goes on.
>
>
> Point is: FAA calls it =91EXPERIMENTAL=92 for a very good reason. I say,
=93Go
> ahead and experiment. It=92s your dream.=94
>
> Gary Boothe
> Cool, Ca.
> Pietenpol (with laminated struts!)
> WW Corvair Conversion, Running!
> Tail done, Fuselage on gear
> (23 ribs down=85)
> ------------------------------
>
> *From*: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com <
> owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com>
> *To*: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> *Sent*: Tue Dec 21 05:43:24 2010
>
> *Subject*: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Engine
>
> I have perceived some anti-Corvair bias on the list. Is this for real?
I
> plan to use a Corvair engine in my Piet but if there is some REAL fault w
ith
> the engine I need to know it now. Is the bias real or just done in jest?
> From watching William Wynne's videos I can't see anything that would caus
e
> the bias unless it's just jealousy.
>
>
> Chuck
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *www.buildersbooks.com*
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List*
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://forums.matronics.com*
>
> **
>
> Confidentiality Notice: This email is intended for the sole use of the
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--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ray Krause" <raykrause(at)frontiernet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Sky Scout pix |
Thanks for the wonderful pictures of the Sky Scout! If there are any other
pictures, please let me know, or send them along. I would REALLY
appreciate it.
Thanks and fly SAFELY,
Ray Krause
Waiex 51YX, Jabiru 3300 (1197), Sensenich wood prop, AeroCarb (#2 needle
modified), Dynon D-180, Garmin SL 30 NavCom, Garmin 327 transponder, Garmin
Aera 560, nav and strobe lights: 231 hrs., building the Sky Scout ....
slowly
----- Original Message -----
From: "899PM" <rockriverrifle(at)hotmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2010 12:15 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Sky Scout pix
>
> Here are a couple pix of my old Sky Scout. I bought it as a project, later
> sold it to Dennis Hall (Brodhead) who finished it into one of the nicest
> looking planes I have ever seen. Dennis' work was flawless!
>
> --------
> PAPA MIKE
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324063#324063
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/100_1347_480.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/100_1346_610.jpg
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Sky Scout pix |
| From: | "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca> |
Actually, that beautiful Sky Scout that Dennis Hall completed isn't in Brodhead
anymore. It was sold, and now lives in the Port Townsend Aero Museum, in Washington,
not too far from Seattle.
http://www.ptaeromuseum.com/pietenpol.html
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324092#324092
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Thanks for the encouragement |
| From: | "Dangerous Dave" <dsornbor(at)aol.com> |
Chuck,thanks for the concern,but gluing fabric to ribs is worse than solid landing
gear with steel wheels.Besides its not approved.Dave
--------
Covering Piet
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324093#324093
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Progress Pics |
| From: | Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
|| I'm used to Poly Fiber that requires those extra steps. Maybe I need to
switch.
>
>
Only if you want to avoid nerve damage in later life due to mek fumes.
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack" <jack(at)textors.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Corvair Engine |
Tom Wottreng, email me offline for his contact information. Tom is an A&P;
IA who specializes in small Continentals. He is a great fellow and a superb
teacher. He and I did the final assembly of my engine. I don't know what
Tom charges now for an 85, but I can say I would trust him with my life and
his engines are a bargain. Attached is a picture of my 85.
Jack
DSM
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charles
Campbell
Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2010 3:13 PM
Subject: Re: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Engine
Jack, I've been having some trouble getting the list to recognise that my
posts are legit. I'll see if this goes through. If it does, let me know
where I can get a 0 time C85 for $6K and I will probably dance at your next
wedding!
----- Original Message -----
From: Jack <mailto:jack(at)textors.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2010 1:20 PM
Subject: RE: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Engine
Yes a 0 time C85 is possible for under 6K, including generator and starter.
Jack
DSM
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kip and Beth
Gardner
Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2010 8:35 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Engine
Of course, as Jack will attest, aircraft engines never fail. :). I also
recall Amy Laboda, back when she was writing for EAA, doing a column about
how the crank snapped on takeoff on her big, old reliable
Continental-powered Cessna, putting her & her 2 daughters into Biscayne Bay.
It's flying, sh** can happen no matter what your choice of aircraft, engine,
etc.
The other thing to consider is that even with the 5th bearing, if you are
good at doing your own work, a zero-time Corvair conversion will cost you
about 6K. For that amount, you might get an A-65 overhauled, but how many
guys on this list have A-65's, and have concerns about flying on hot days,
or carrying passengers who weigh more than about 180lbs., or worry about the
length of their runways, etc. etc. ? Can you get a C-85 or C-95 rebuilt to
zero time for 6K? I'm not sure, but that would be the appropriate
comparison. (On a different, but related note, Oscar, how IS the C-85
working out? Better, I hope).
This is the debate that will NEVER die :)
Kip Gardner
On Dec 21, 2010, at 9:07 AM, Jack Phillips wrote:
Chuck,
Yes it is in jest, mostly. If I lived in the midwest, I would probably have
built my Piet with a Model A, because I really like the look and sound
(pockity, pockity) of that engine. However, for me reliability is key,
flying above the forests of North Carolina and the mountains of Virginia,
and I'm just not a fan of auto engine conversions for aircraft. The design
requirements are simply too different.
Car engines are not designed to operate anywhere near full power for more
than a few seconds at a time, whereas an aircraft engine must be capable of
full power continuously. That's why Corvairs require such little tricks as
painting the pushrod tubes white to try to keep the oil down to a manageable
temperature. Putting that engine in an airplane is asking it to do
something it was simply not designed to do. Now the Corvair guys are adding
a 5th main bearing (at significant expense, negating the supposed cost
advantage of using a car engine to begin with) to handle the loads that a
propeller puts on the crankshaft. There have been numerous cases of
crankshafts breaking in Corvairs in aircraft, although I don't know of any
in a Pietenpol, other than Shad Bell's.
Car engines (other than the Model A) also tend to get their power at higher
RPMs than are useful for driving propellers. Props really loose efficiency
when the tips start going supersonic (to say nothing of being VERY noisy -
ever hear a T-6 takeoff?) and with the size props used on planes of our size
that happens at about 2500 RPM. Power generated at speeds faster than that
is not very useful and there needs to be substantial torque in the 2000 -
2500 RPM range. That's why so many auto engine conversions require gearing
to reduce the propeller speed, which adds cost, weight and complexity, and
hurts reliablity.
As Gary says, these are EXPERIMENTAL airplanes, so you are free to do as you
wish. Just realize that in this as in most decisions made in building an
airplane, there are tradeoffs. Reliability is not something I choose to
trade away, if I can help it.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Raleigh, NC
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Boothe
Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2010 8:24 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Engine
Chuck,
PLEASE do not encourage them! You are on a good path. Become a WW student,
and enjoy the process of building your own engine, too. Are you also on the
Corvair List? There are a bunch of flying Pietenpols with Corvairs,
including the Bell boys, all the Big Piets, PF Beck, Gardiner Mason, Axel
Purtee just to name a few. There are a bunch more that will become airborne
in a year or two. I think most comments are meant in jest, as in the
following, as requested by Dan Helsper (thanks to John Hoffman):
http://gallery.me.com/johnnyskyrocket#100017
BTW.Dan Helsper and PF Beck are also accomplished prop carvers. Wanna' start
another debate about the pros & cons of carving your own prop? How about
laminating your own struts, like Axel?.....
Now look what you've done! You got me started...
Painting with house paint, raising the turtledecks, modifying the center
section, using motorcycle wheels, rear control stick push rods..the list
goes on.
Point is: FAA calls it 'EXPERIMENTAL' for a very good reason. I say, "Go
ahead and experiment. It's your dream."
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol (with laminated struts!)
WW Corvair Conversion, Running!
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(23 ribs down.)
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tue Dec 21 05:43:24 2010
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Engine
I have perceived some anti-Corvair bias on the list. Is this for real? I
plan to use a Corvair engine in my Piet but if there is some REAL fault with
the engine I need to know it now. Is the bias real or just done in jest?
>From watching William Wynne's videos I can't see anything that would cause
the bias unless it's just jealousy.
Chuck
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dick N" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Soon will be building |
Hey Ryan
The Volmer is coming along slowly also. That is a complicated machine.
I much prefer the simplicity of the Pietenpol.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: Ryan Mueller
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, December 20, 2010 11:16 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Soon will be building
Happy to hear you are at work on another Pietenpol. Just curious, what
happened to the Volmer....or is she still coming along as well?
Ryan
On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 9:13 PM, Dick N
wrote:
Hey Rick
I am working on a third one now. This one is a Sky Scout. Tail
feathers and wing ribs done done, fuselage is in the jig.
Thought I'd correct the record.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: Rick Holland
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, December 20, 2010 4:04 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Soon will be building
Dan, you could always build a second Piet like Dick N. did. The
best of both worlds, one to fly and another to build.
rick
On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 5:32 AM, wrote:
Hi Kelly,
Even though I am done, I envy you in a lot of ways. Countless
enjoyable hours of designing and building in front of you. Enjoy every
minute of it rather than rush to get something done. I used my project
to learn a great deal on a variety of subjects.
Wishing all on this list a very blessed Christmas and Happy New
Year ahead.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Clif Dawson" <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Corvair Engine |
Sometimes it's not what you look for but how you look for it.
For a long time I was checking Craigslist for "aircraft" and
"airplane". Then one day I thought " Why not search " lycoming".
Well, pressed enter and up pops an O-290 with 800hrs on
the bottom end and 50 on the top. Hmmm... that should
leave enough hours to see me the rest of my lifetime!
And it's $2500. No mags though. But I already have those!
Upon picking it up he says "You want an extra new ( in box )
cylinder for $200?" So I bought that. Next he turns up
with a box of the old pistons and six used cylinders, at
least two of which appear to have very few hours on them
and gives them to me.
OH YEAH! It came with the logbook too! Certified!
So look everywhere and look creatively.
Clif
"Imagination decides everything." ~ Blaise Pascal
Plus every time I would see a "genuine aircraft" 60 year old cylinder
selling for $900 I would think "I ain't paying $900 for some
stinkin1940s relic of the internal combustion stone age", even though I
could afford it.
and start scanning Trade-A-Plane for a good O-200. rick
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Clif Dawson" <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Sky Scout pix |
I'm gonna hafta get down there. Why is there always too
much to do??
Like updating my website. :-)
http://www.clifdawson.ca/
Clif
>
> Actually, that beautiful Sky Scout that Dennis Hall completed now lives in
> the Port Townsend Aero Museum, in Washington, not too far from Seattle.
>
>
> http://www.ptaeromuseum.com/pietenpol.html
>
> Bill C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Thanks for the encouragement |
| From: | helspersew(at)aol.com |
Hi Dave,
I think what Chuck meant was gluing the fabric to the undercamber part of t
he ribs only. I believe this is a generally accepted method, prior to rib s
titching, of insuring that the fabric can follow a undercambered-type rib.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
-----Original Message-----
From: Dangerous Dave <dsornbor(at)aol.com>
Sent: Tue, Dec 21, 2010 5:34 pm
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Thanks for the encouragement
Chuck,thanks for the concern,but gluing fabric to ribs is worse than solid
anding gear with steel wheels.Besides its not approved.Dave
--------
overing Piet
ead this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324093#324093
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | small Continental flat-four engines |
Kip asked-
>Oscar, how IS the C-85 working out? Better, I hope
I swapped my A65 for an A75, not a C85. And it is doing
quite well, thank you. Not that I ever felt like the
airplane was particularly under-powered with the A65, and
not that the 65 was running poorly (it is now pulling Doc
Hecker's Taylorcraft around south Texas), but the opportunity
to acquire the 75 core came up and I decided to have it
overhauled into a "new" engine. Pix and story on the engine
and swap are at http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/engine/A75.html
I'll tell you this, though... with two aboard and about the
same amount of fuel, Kevin Purtee's "Fat Bottomed Girl" ran away
from "Scout" with no problem. My engine has 171 cu. in. and
is rated 75HP at 2600 RPM for takeoff. Kevin's engine has 164
cu. in. and is rated 100HP at 3150 RPM for takeoff so he has
essentially 33% more power than I do, at about the same cost.
And Kip also wrote-
>Can you get a C-85 or C-95 rebuilt to zero time for 6K?
>In the last post, I meant C-90 (O-200) of course.
Well, let's sort through this a bit. The C85, C90, and O-200
are all birds of a feather but then again they're different.
For more on this subject, you can read my article "The Small
Continentals" in the current issue of Contact! Magazine. For
a representative cost for a rebuilt O-200, here's one that
my friend Jeff Scott has for sale for $6500:
http://jscott.comlu.com/Engines/O-200%20engine%202.html
Jeff (and Doug Reid, his machinist) did the overhaul on my A75.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
San Antonio, TX
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Thanks for the encouragement |
| From: | "Dangerous Dave" <dsornbor(at)aol.com> |
Dan,I have never seen where it is legal to do that.It is only a half inch away
from the ribs at the farthest and if you use the correct 3 1/2" rib stiching it
just pull right down anyway.If you glued it it could pull up the reinforcing
tape and missalign it so as the fabric would directly contact the ribs and eventualy
cut through the fabric.dave
--------
Covering Piet
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324115#324115
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Thanks for the encouragement |
Dave, I tried to scan a page out of the Poly Fiber manual but my scanner is
broken, I guess. So I'll quote: "Before you attach any fabric, brush the
LOWER rib capstrips only with two coats of Poly-Tac cement. Let the cement
dry. Now attach the upper and lower wing fabric exactly as
described.....Mix a solution of Poly-Tac thinned 1 to 1 with MEK. Brush
this into the fabric over the bottom rib capstrips. This solution will soak
through the fabric and soften the Poly-Tac previously applied to the bottom
capstrips. This will CEMENT THE FABRIC TO THE CONCAVE BOTTOM OF THE RIBS
(Emphasis mine)." I'm sure that if the Poly Fiber process is "approved"
then the Stewart process would be, also. I'm sure your're talking about the
top capstrips which the procedure was careful to exclude from the glueing
process. Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dangerous Dave" <dsornbor(at)aol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2010 6:32 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Thanks for the encouragement
>
> Chuck,thanks for the concern,but gluing fabric to ribs is worse than solid
> landing gear with steel wheels.Besides its not approved.Dave
>
> --------
> Covering Piet
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324093#324093
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kip and Beth Gardner <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: small Continental flat-four engines |
Thanks for the quick report Oscar, even if I did have my facts a bit
askew. :) So it sounds like you CAN get a certified aircraft engine
in flying condition that is comparable to a full conversion Corvair
for about the same amount of $$$. We all pays our money & takes our
choices & if you want to comment on this topic on THIS list, it helps
if your skin is not too thin :).
Kip
On Dec 22, 2010, at 8:04 AM, Oscar Zuniga wrote:
> >
>
>
> Kip asked-
>
>> Oscar, how IS the C-85 working out? Better, I hope
>
> I swapped my A65 for an A75, not a C85. And it is doing
> quite well, thank you. Not that I ever felt like the
> airplane was particularly under-powered with the A65, and
> not that the 65 was running poorly (it is now pulling Doc
> Hecker's Taylorcraft around south Texas), but the opportunity
> to acquire the 75 core came up and I decided to have it
> overhauled into a "new" engine. Pix and story on the engine
> and swap are at http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/engine/A75.html
>
> I'll tell you this, though... with two aboard and about the
> same amount of fuel, Kevin Purtee's "Fat Bottomed Girl" ran away
> from "Scout" with no problem. My engine has 171 cu. in. and
> is rated 75HP at 2600 RPM for takeoff. Kevin's engine has 164
> cu. in. and is rated 100HP at 3150 RPM for takeoff so he has
> essentially 33% more power than I do, at about the same cost.
>
> And Kip also wrote-
>
>> Can you get a C-85 or C-95 rebuilt to zero time for 6K?
>> In the last post, I meant C-90 (O-200) of course.
>
> Well, let's sort through this a bit. The C85, C90, and O-200
> are all birds of a feather but then again they're different.
> For more on this subject, you can read my article "The Small
> Continentals" in the current issue of Contact! Magazine. For
> a representative cost for a rebuilt O-200, here's one that
> my friend Jeff Scott has for sale for $6500:
>
> http://jscott.comlu.com/Engines/O-200%20engine%202.html
>
> Jeff (and Doug Reid, his machinist) did the overhaul on my A75.
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
> San Antonio, TX
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Sky Scout pix |
| From: | "899PM" <rockriverrifle(at)hotmail.com> |
Blew some dust of these pics! These go back a ways. I wish I had gotten a chance
to fly the Scout before it migrated west.
--------
PAPA MIKE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324122#324122
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/sseng5_843.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/sseng3_399.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/scoutfuse_184.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/scoutcanoe_116.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Corvair Engine |
Nothing wrong with the corvair.........Except you have to throttle way back
and apply carb heat when flying with other ford, lambert,-and continenta
l powered piets.- Just ask Don E., and Frank Pavliga, Flew all the way ho
me from OSH in 2009 with the throttle pulled back.- Now for a serious not
e, we get an honest 78-83 mph cruise at about 5 to 5.5-gallons per hr wit
h a Heggy 66-30 prop.- The continental is a great engine as well, and I w
ould guess that the light weight of the cont. compared to the corvair, you
will get at least a 5 mph reduction in stall speed, and defininatly have a
lighter airplane (probably 80-100lbs lighter).- I think most 65 powered p
iets come in around 620-640 lbs, Ours is 730lbs, and I believe the few othe
r wooden corvair piets I have seen-are within 10-20 lbs of ours.-The co
rvair can sometimes be a R&D project untill you get it all wrung out, after
that part is done it is like going out to start your car and flying it
around. If you decide corvair, do your homework, get Wynne's manual, and u
se the resorces and people's knowlage and experiance who have built and flo
wn the engine.- It can be reliable,-or it can kill you if you don't lea
rn from other's mistakes, and take advantage of others succeses and develop
ments.
-
off my soapbox now
-
Merry Christmas to all
Shad=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Arrow Fest and New Video |
Arrow Fest is slow to begin. I have been on vacation now since last Thursday and
with family being in town and other prior commitments, I have done little on
the landing gear. However, I was able to complete HINT Video #7 Center Section
and post it on my website. Since that goal has been met, the landing gear is
next. I will post some pictures when I get to a point worthy of taking a few!
Michael Perez
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kimball Isaac <kim.integrity(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Thanks for the encouragement |
Check this apparently no need to rib stitch click here
<http://falconaravia.com/>
On 22/12/2010 5:19 AM, Dangerous Dave wrote:
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Dangerous Dave"
>
> Dan,I have never seen where it is legal to do that.It is only a half inch away
from the ribs at the farthest and if you use the correct 3 1/2" rib stiching
it just pull right down anyway.If you glued it it could pull up the reinforcing
tape and missalign it so as the fabric would directly contact the ribs and
eventualy cut through the fabric.dave
>
> --------
> Covering Piet
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324115#324115
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Thanks for the encouragement |
But who wants to pay $270 per gallon of paint?
----- Original Message -----
From: Kimball Isaac
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2010 11:23 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Thanks for the encouragement
Check this apparently no need to rib stitch click here
On 22/12/2010 5:19 AM, Dangerous Dave wrote:
Dan,I have never seen where it is legal to do that.It is only a half
inch away from the ribs at the farthest and if you use the correct 3
1/2" rib stiching it just pull right down anyway.If you glued it it
could pull up the reinforcing tape and missalign it so as the fabric
would directly contact the ribs and eventualy cut through the
fabric.dave
--------
Covering Piet
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324115#324115
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: small Continental flat-four engines |
| From: | "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
Kip; that is true enough, yes. The one thing I will point out about the Continental
vs. Corvair is the cost of parts. There is a very large difference between
the engines when it comes to obtaining and paying for repair and replacement
parts for these engines. And with that, I believe I'll end my contributions
to the thread!
--------
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
Air Camper NX41CC
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324138#324138
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Thanks for the encouragement |
| From: | "Dangerous Dave" <dsornbor(at)aol.com> |
I paid $270 a gallon for 3 gallons 155 a gallon for 2 gallons of Ecofill and enough
more for the whole Stewart system.I am glad I did.another couple of grand
is no problem considering I will have over 24,000 in the plane and every part
is certified FAA-PMA and done according to the book 43.13 that is.I would like
to put a couple thousand hours on it and not have to wonder if it will last
or if the paint will degenerate.Dave
--------
Covering Piet
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324139#324139
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Hipec covering, rib stitching |
The Jungster1, Jungster2, Cavilier, and several other wooden homebuilts, ha
ve been doing without ribstitching for 4 decades or more.- Mabe not as pe
riod correct on a piet (at least cosmetically), but if you put 1 inch wide
plywood caps on your ribs it would probably be okay.-- I have talked wi
th Stan McLeod of Alberta Canada, the designer of the Cavilier series of ai
rcraft, and he just used 3M Pliobond for fabric cement, and says he never h
ad a problem with fabric coming loose.- The cavileir has a much higher cr
uise speed and wing loading when compared to the Piet.-
-
Ya gotta love the Inginuity, and resorcefulnes of our Northern Friends.-
It's not forgiving up there if you have a forced landing, you end up just a
bear turd.
-
Shad=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Hipec covering, rib stitching |
| From: | "BYD" <billsayre(at)ymail.com> |
One word: Rib-stitch.
It's not that difficult.
If you're building a Jungster1, Jungster2 or Cavilier I defer to others.
Just my opinion.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324146#324146
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> |
| Subject: | Re: small Continental flat-four engines |
Apparently, some people don't care about costs!
----- Original Message -----
From: "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2010 1:01 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: small Continental flat-four engines
>
> Kip; that is true enough, yes. The one thing I will point out about the
> Continental vs. Corvair is the cost of parts. There is a very large
> difference between the engines when it comes to obtaining and paying for
> repair and replacement parts for these engines. And with that, I believe
> I'll end my contributions to the thread!
>
> --------
> Oscar Zuniga
> San Antonio, TX
> Air Camper NX41CC
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324138#324138
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | covering around fuse fittings? |
| From: | "Chris Rusch" <rmdinfo(at)lakefield.net> |
How did most of you guys cover around the lift struts and motor mount fittings
on the fuselage?
I seen some are covered up and some look like they are blocked out around the fittings.......not
sure which way to go.
doe anyone have closeup pictures of those ares they would like to share?
Chris
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324156#324156
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: covering around fuse fittings? |
| From: | "Catdesigns" <Catdesigns(at)att.net> |
Another option for the motor mount fittings is to end the covering before the fitting
and cover the fittings with metal.
http://www.westcoastpiet.com/images/Paul%20Poulin/images/IMG_2203.JPG
--------
Chris
Sacramento, CA
WestCoastPiet.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324163#324163
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "bender" <jfaith(at)solairusaviation.com> |
i know this horse gets beaten a lot but.... i'm about to build the wooden gear
and i'm thinking about wood... my fuselage is all poplar and i'm totally comfortable
with the wood and it's strength.. but... do i use it for the gear legs
like i'm thinking i should ?? i've read that ash for the legs is really overkill
and i'm not a rebel but it's not going to be spruce.. i really like picking
boards from the pile myself and there is no spruce in kentucky
jeff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324178#324178
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gboothe5" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
Jeff,
ALL struts and gear legs on NX308MB are laminated Hickory, but not flight
tested. You can see pics at www.westcoastpiet.com. I think I recall that
Mike Cuy used spruce, so my gut feeling is that you pretty much have free
reign. FYI...my fuse is all poplar, too!
Gary Boothe
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of bender
Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2010 8:32 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: wood legs
i know this horse gets beaten a lot but.... i'm about to build the wooden
gear and i'm thinking about wood... my fuselage is all poplar and i'm
totally comfortable with the wood and it's strength.. but... do i use it for
the gear legs like i'm thinking i should ?? i've read that ash for the legs
is really overkill and i'm not a rebel but it's not going to be spruce.. i
really like picking boards from the pile myself and there is no spruce in
kentucky
jeff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324178#324178
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: covering around fuse fittings? |
I wonder, how is the oil dipstick accessed on that plane?
>
>Another option for the motor mount fittings is to end the covering
>before the fitting and cover the fittings with metal.
>
>http://www.westcoastpiet.com/images/Paul%20Poulin/images/IMG_2203.JPG
>
>--------
>Chris
>Sacramento, CA
>WestCoastPiet.com
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324163#324163
>
--
---
Jeffrey H. Boatright, Ph.D.
Associate Professor of Ophthalmology
Emory University School of Medicine
Editor-in-Chief
Molecular Vision
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris" <catdesigns(at)att.net> |
I knew Gary would respond to this question, he is a very poplar guy in this
neck of the woods for his wood selection skills. So poplar I decided to
integrate some poplar in my wings just so I can be like Gary.
Jeff, the wood gear is already HEAVY so watch out for adding pounds in the
gear legs. I'm not sure how much actual wood is in the legs but according to
Design of Aircraft Structures (ANC-18) Spruce is about 28 pounds per cubic
foot, Poplar is 29 lb per cu., Ft Ash is 41 lb per cu. Ft, White Oak is 44
lb per cu. Ft., Hickory 50 lb per cu. Ft. (all at 15 percent moisture).
Remember a half pound here or there adds up.
I used spruce, I have seen oak, ash and hickory (Gary's). Cant's say I know
of any in poplar. If you can find some good poplar you could probably use
it. Poplar is slightly weaker so I would laminate several pieces together,
because I think it helps the strength, and make it slightly thicker if
possible. Besides, if it breaks you can always head for the pond. (geez, I
can't believe I said that)
You could also use Douglas-fir at 33 lb per cu. Ft., stronger than spruce
but it is prone to splitting so I don't know if it would cause problems in
use. (Lowe's and Home Depot has some good DF)
You can find a copy of ANC-18 here,
http://westcoastpiet.com/construction.htm
The file ANC-18 Part 1 of 3.pdf has the table of wood properties. Check it
out and decide for yourself based on the lumber you have available.
Chris
Sacramento, Ca
Westcoastpiet.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gboothe5
Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2010 8:45 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: wood legs
Jeff,
ALL struts and gear legs on NX308MB are laminated Hickory, but not flight
tested. You can see pics at www.westcoastpiet.com. I think I recall that
Mike Cuy used spruce, so my gut feeling is that you pretty much have free
reign. FYI...my fuse is all poplar, too!
Gary Boothe
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of bender
Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2010 8:32 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: wood legs
-->
i know this horse gets beaten a lot but.... i'm about to build the wooden
gear and i'm thinking about wood... my fuselage is all poplar and i'm
totally comfortable with the wood and it's strength.. but... do i use it for
the gear legs like i'm thinking i should ?? i've read that ash for the legs
is really overkill and i'm not a rebel but it's not going to be spruce.. i
really like picking boards from the pile myself and there is no spruce in
kentucky
jeff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324178#324178
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gboothe5" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
...always a good source for info, Chris! I often forget about how much stuff
you have at www.westcoastpiet.com!
I wonder...how many cubic feet of wood are there in the gear? 1/2? 1/4? I
did not weight the parts, but my guess is that all four legs weigh about 10
lbs, which means, by your #'s, there is about 1/5 cf there. I'll have to do
the math tomorrow...
Gary
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris
Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2010 9:46 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: wood legs
I knew Gary would respond to this question, he is a very poplar guy in this
neck of the woods for his wood selection skills. So poplar I decided to
integrate some poplar in my wings just so I can be like Gary.
Jeff, the wood gear is already HEAVY so watch out for adding pounds in the
gear legs. I'm not sure how much actual wood is in the legs but according to
Design of Aircraft Structures (ANC-18) Spruce is about 28 pounds per cubic
foot, Poplar is 29 lb per cu., Ft Ash is 41 lb per cu. Ft, White Oak is 44
lb per cu. Ft., Hickory 50 lb per cu. Ft. (all at 15 percent moisture).
Remember a half pound here or there adds up.
I used spruce, I have seen oak, ash and hickory (Gary's). Cant's say I know
of any in poplar. If you can find some good poplar you could probably use
it. Poplar is slightly weaker so I would laminate several pieces together,
because I think it helps the strength, and make it slightly thicker if
possible. Besides, if it breaks you can always head for the pond. (geez, I
can't believe I said that)
You could also use Douglas-fir at 33 lb per cu. Ft., stronger than spruce
but it is prone to splitting so I don't know if it would cause problems in
use. (Lowe's and Home Depot has some good DF)
You can find a copy of ANC-18 here,
http://westcoastpiet.com/construction.htm
The file ANC-18 Part 1 of 3.pdf has the table of wood properties. Check it
out and decide for yourself based on the lumber you have available.
Chris
Sacramento, Ca
Westcoastpiet.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gboothe5
Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2010 8:45 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: wood legs
Jeff,
ALL struts and gear legs on NX308MB are laminated Hickory, but not flight
tested. You can see pics at www.westcoastpiet.com. I think I recall that
Mike Cuy used spruce, so my gut feeling is that you pretty much have free
reign. FYI...my fuse is all poplar, too!
Gary Boothe
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of bender
Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2010 8:32 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: wood legs
-->
i know this horse gets beaten a lot but.... i'm about to build the wooden
gear and i'm thinking about wood... my fuselage is all poplar and i'm
totally comfortable with the wood and it's strength.. but... do i use it for
the gear legs like i'm thinking i should ?? i've read that ash for the legs
is really overkill and i'm not a rebel but it's not going to be spruce.. i
really like picking boards from the pile myself and there is no spruce in
kentucky
jeff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324178#324178
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Clif Dawson" <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> |
The legs on mine are Doug Fir but only because I could
not get my favourite Hemlock in suitable dimensions.
I have the charts on AC wood properties here;
http://www.clifdawson.ca/Homepage4-10-06/Tools_and_Tips.html
Scroll down a ways. The thing you're looking for is crushing
strength which is "compression parallel to grain".
For a start determine the square inch footprint at the butt end
of the front leg. Mine is close to three square inches. So if
(God forbid!) I should whack the ground in such a way as to
put all the force directly up the left leg, would it take it?
I watched The Aviators on Saturday. This Lake drops a carrier
landing on the runway directly on the right wheel. The other
two come down smartly and the thing just rolls along on
it's merry way like nothing happened. I'll bet the Piet wood
LG is stronger with just about any of these softwoods.
Clif
>
> The file ANC-18 Part 1 of 3.pdf has the table of wood properties. Check it
> out and decide for yourself based on the lumber you have available.
>
> Chris
> Sacramento, Ca
> Westcoastpiet.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> |
How about Douglas Fir?
----- Original Message -----
From: "bender" <jfaith(at)solairusaviation.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2010 11:31 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: wood legs
>
>
> i know this horse gets beaten a lot but.... i'm about to build the wooden
> gear and i'm thinking about wood... my fuselage is all poplar and i'm
> totally comfortable with the wood and it's strength.. but... do i use it
> for the gear legs like i'm thinking i should ?? i've read that ash for the
> legs is really overkill and i'm not a rebel but it's not going to be
> spruce.. i really like picking boards from the pile myself and there is no
> spruce in kentucky
>
> jeff
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324178#324178
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
Shad, it depends on the propeller. Last summer, when I ferried Ryan
Mueller's new A65 Continental powered Pietenpol (bought from Gene
Pennington) from west Tennessee to Brodhead, I was accompanied by Randy Bush
in his Corvair powered Pietenpol. I expected to have difficulty keeping up
with Randy with all the power the Corvair produces, but instead I found I
had to throttle back to allow him to keep up with me. Ryan's Piet has a
beautiful Cloudcars scimitar prop and it performs much better than my A65
powered Piet with a Sensenich prop. I want to get one of those props for
mine!
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Raleigh, NC
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of shad bell
Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2010 10:27 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Engine
Nothing wrong with the corvair.........Except you have to throttle way back
and apply carb heat when flying with other ford, lambert, and continental
powered piets. Just ask Don E., and Frank Pavliga, Flew all the way home
from OSH in 2009 with the throttle pulled back. Now for a serious note, we
get an honest 78-83 mph cruise at about 5 to 5.5 gallons per hr with a Heggy
66-30 prop. The continental is a great engine as well, and I would guess
that the light weight of the cont. compared to the corvair, you will get at
least a 5 mph reduction in stall speed, and defininatly have a lighter
airplane (probably 80-100lbs lighter). I think most 65 powered piets come
in around 620-640 lbs, Ours is 730lbs, and I believe the few other wooden
corvair piets I have seen are within 10-20 lbs of ours. The corvair can
sometimes be a R&D project untill you get it all wrung out, after that part
is done it is like going out to start your car and flying it around. If you
decide corvair, do your homework, get Wynne's manual, and use the resorces
and people's knowlage and experiance who have built and flown the engine.
It can be reliable, or it can kill you if you don't learn from other's
mistakes, and take advantage of others succeses and developments.
off my soapbox now
Merry Christmas to all
Shad
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Thanks for the encouragement |
The PolyFiber manual says to glue the fabric to the rib capstrips using
PolyTak for undercambered ribs, then do the initial shrink BEFORE
ribstitching. Then stitch it, then do the final two shrinks. The
Ceconite
manual does not mention it, and Ceconite is only shrunk to 250=B0, and
doesn't
use the 300=B0 and 350=B0 shrinks that PolyFiber uses.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Raleigh, NC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Dangerous
Dave
Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2010 8:19 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Thanks for the encouragement
Dan,I have never seen where it is legal to do that.It is only a half
inch
away from the ribs at the farthest and if you use the correct 3 1/2" rib
stiching it just pull right down anyway.If you glued it it could pull up
the
reinforcing tape and missalign it so as the fabric would directly
contact
the ribs and eventualy cut through the fabric.dave
--------
Covering Piet
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324115#324115
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
My gear legs are Sitka Spruce, per the plans except I laminated them in 1/4"
laminations. They've survived all my poor landings so far.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Raleigh, NC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of bender
Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2010 11:32 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: wood legs
i know this horse gets beaten a lot but.... i'm about to build the wooden
gear and i'm thinking about wood... my fuselage is all poplar and i'm
totally comfortable with the wood and it's strength.. but... do i use it for
the gear legs like i'm thinking i should ?? i've read that ash for the legs
is really overkill and i'm not a rebel but it's not going to be spruce.. i
really like picking boards from the pile myself and there is no spruce in
kentucky
jeff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324178#324178
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Thanks for the encouragement |
| From: | "Dangerous Dave" <dsornbor(at)aol.com> |
Thank you Jack!End of report.Nice to see I'm not the only one with Ceconite,Stewarts
and Poly Fibre manuals.Dave
--------
Covering Piet
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324196#324196
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> |
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2010 8:25 AM
Subject: Steam Power
http://www.wxpnews.com/1TG846/100126-Steam-Powered-Airplane
Has anyone ever thought about powering a Piet with steam?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Schreiber" <lmforge(at)earthlink.net> |
I used laminated douglas fir on mine also. Pete Bowers used laminated pine on the
Fly Baby. The straight axle gear on the Fly Baby has the axle mounted solid
to the gear legs and only uses the tires for shock absorption. There is more
force transmitted to the wood gear legs on a Fly Baby compared to the bungee sprung
Pietenpol and the pine seems to hold up fine on the Fly Baby.
Rick Schreiber
Valparaiso, IN
________________________________________________________________________________
Interesting to watch........ a little old school but the info about drag
is still relevant.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftq8jTQ8ANE
Brian
SLC-UT
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Fw: Steam Power |
Just for kicks I looked into the Besler steam-powered plane a few
years ago. If memory serves, the "engine" is relatively light, but
the boiler is something like 400 lbs! Might just get off the ground
in an Air Camper converted to single-seater...
>
>Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2010 8:25 AM
>Subject: Steam Power
>
><http://www.wxpnews.com/1TG846/100126-Steam-Powered-Airplane>http://www.wxpnews.com/1TG846/100126-Steam-Powered-Airplane
>
>Has anyone ever thought about powering a Piet with steam?
>
>
--
Jeff Boatright
"Now let's think about this..."
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Aircraft drag |
Now THAT is INTERESTING! Well, so much for NOT streamlining struts and cabanes!
I remember wondering why Chuck Gantzer went to so much trouble adding all that
streamlining to his struts.... Hand carving balsa, overlaying fabric....but
he reduced drag by a HUGE factor.
Very interesting video and should be required viewing!
Thanks Brian, very interesting.
jm
-----Original Message-----
>From: brian.e.jardine@l-3com.com
>Sent: Dec 23, 2010 10:01 AM
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Aircraft drag
>
>
>Interesting to watch........ a little old school but the info about drag
>is still relevant.
>
>
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftq8jTQ8ANE
>
>Brian
>SLC-UT
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "AmsafetyC(at)aol.com" <AmsafetyC(at)aol.com> |
Mine are laminated wood
John
Sent via DROID on Verizon Wireless
-----Original message-----
From: bender <jfaith(at)solairusaviation.com>
Sent: Thu, Dec 23, 2010 04:34:51 GMT+00:00
Subject: Pietenpol-List: wood legs
i know this horse gets beaten a lot but.... i'm about to build the wooden
gear and i'm thinking about wood... my fuselage is all poplar and i'm
totally comfortable with the wood and it's strength.. but... do i use it for
the gear legs like i'm thinking i should ?? i've read that ash for the legs
is really overkill and i'm not a rebel but it's not going to be spruce.. i
really like picking boards from the pile myself and there is no spruce in
kentucky
jeff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324178#324178
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: covering around fuse fittings? |
| From: | "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
How to access the oil filler and dipstick? Just put it on the other side! (See
pic...)
I have always liked that "Canadian Goose"... really nice work, and great color
scheme. I notice that he does not have grommets on the cooling eyebrows where
the plug leads enter though... I have had the braided shielding on my plug wires
wear through anyplace they touch a metal edge like that, especially in the
slipstream behind the pulsating prop.
--------
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
Air Camper NX41CC
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324223#324223
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/nose_138.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fw: Steam Power |
Re: Pietenpol-List: Fw: Steam PowerdI was thinking it might need another
wing!!
----- Original Message -----
From: Jeff Boatright
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2010 10:21 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fw: Steam Power
Just for kicks I looked into the Besler steam-powered plane a few
years ago. If memory serves, the "engine" is relatively light, but the
boiler is something like 400 lbs! Might just get off the ground in an
Air Camper converted to single-seater...
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2010 8:25 AM
Subject: Steam Power
http://www.wxpnews.com/1TG846/100126-Steam-Powered-Airplane
Has anyone ever thought about powering a Piet with steam?
--
Jeff Boatright
"Now let's think about this..."
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dick N" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
Charles
Mine are 3 ply laminated Douglas Fir.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net>
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2010 4:54 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: wood legs
>
>
> How about Douglas Fir?
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "bender" <jfaith(at)solairusaviation.com>
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2010 11:31 PM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: wood legs
>
>
>>
>>
>> i know this horse gets beaten a lot but.... i'm about to build the wooden
>> gear and i'm thinking about wood... my fuselage is all poplar and i'm
>> totally comfortable with the wood and it's strength.. but... do i use it
>> for the gear legs like i'm thinking i should ?? i've read that ash for
>> the legs is really overkill and i'm not a rebel but it's not going to be
>> spruce.. i really like picking boards from the pile myself and there is
>> no spruce in kentucky
>>
>> jeff
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324178#324178
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Aircraft drag |
How about steel tube landing gear struts. Did he streamline them also or
did he use wood?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2010 10:27 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aircraft drag
>
>
> Now THAT is INTERESTING! Well, so much for NOT streamlining struts and
> cabanes! I remember wondering why Chuck Gantzer went to so much trouble
> adding all that streamlining to his struts.... Hand carving balsa,
> overlaying fabric....but he reduced drag by a HUGE factor.
>
> Very interesting video and should be required viewing!
>
> Thanks Brian, very interesting.
>
> jm
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>>From: brian.e.jardine@l-3com.com
>>Sent: Dec 23, 2010 10:01 AM
>>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Aircraft drag
>>
>>
>>Interesting to watch........ a little old school but the info about drag
>>is still relevant.
>>
>>
>>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftq8jTQ8ANE
>>
>>Brian
>>SLC-UT
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Ruse <steve(at)wotelectronics.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Aircraft drag |
That video is absolutely fascinating. I've always heard that a round
wire or rod has a massive drag force, but I've never seen it
quantified like that. The small wire/large airfoil comparison is
really enlightening. Thanks for sharing that Brian.
No wonder Vne seems to be a practical limit for my plane, rather than
an operational limit. :) I have approached Vne only a few times, in
incredibly smooth air. I thought the entire world was falling apart.
I am sure that Chuck Yeager himself had no greater sensation of speed
when breaking the sound barrier for the first time than I do when
approaching Vne in my plane. The noise and stress you feel on the
airframe is an eye opener.
Steve Ruse
Norman, OK
Quoting brian.e.jardine@l-3com.com:
>
> Interesting to watch........ a little old school but the info about drag
> is still relevant.
>
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftq8jTQ8ANE
>
> Brian
> SLC-UT
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "amsafetyc(at)aol.com" <amsafetyc(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Aircraft drag link |
Here is the resend with the link
Johm
Sent via DROID on Verizon Wireless
-----Original message-----
From: brian.e.jardine@l-3com.com
Sent: Thu, Dec 23, 2010 15:06:32 GMT+00:00
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Aircraft drag
Interesting to watch........ a little old school but the info about drag
is still relevant.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftq8jTQ8ANE
Brian
SLC-UT
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "AmsafetyC(at)aol.com" <AmsafetyC(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Aircraft drag |
What is your Pne?
John
Sent via DROID on Verizon Wireless
-----Original message-----
From: Steve Ruse <steve(at)wotelectronics.com>
Sent: Thu, Dec 23, 2010 16:59:30 GMT+00:00
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aircraft drag
That video is absolutely fascinating. I've always heard that a round
wire or rod has a massive drag force, but I've never seen it
quantified like that. The small wire/large airfoil comparison is
really enlightening. Thanks for sharing that Brian.
No wonder Vne seems to be a practical limit for my plane, rather than
an operational limit. :) I have approached Vne only a few times, in
incredibly smooth air. I thought the entire world was falling apart.
I am sure that Chuck Yeager himself had no greater sensation of speed
when breaking the sound barrier for the first time than I do when
approaching Vne in my plane. The noise and stress you feel on the
airframe is an eye opener.
Steve Ruse
Norman, OK
Quoting brian.e.jardine@l-3com.com:
>
> Interesting to watch........ a little old school but the info about drag
> is still relevant.
>
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftq8jTQ8ANE
>
> Brian
> SLC-UT
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Silvius" <silvius(at)gwi.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Corvair Engine |
Caveat emptor.
Be sure to cross all your Ts and dot your Is before you send any money
to Aeromax and consult the CorvAircraft list archives on this mater.
There is some not so nice history there.
Michael
----- Original Message -----
From: KM Heide CPO/FAAOP
However, you can go to Aeromax Avaition
http://www.aeromaxaviation.com/aeromax-100-hp-light-aircraft-engine and
buy a kit for $6,500.00 to complete your Corvair.
I have followed Bill Clapp on these engines and his kits. He
offers some set-up different than WW and I like his components better.
My opinion is to contact Bill Clapp and visit with him. I too plan on
using a corvair engine as I will need extra power to get my extra
redundant tissue!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Corvair Engine |
Yeah! I think I'll stick with WW! I know he's honest and that he cares
about the safety of those who use his products.
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Silvius
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2010 12:13 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Engine
Caveat emptor.
Be sure to cross all your Ts and dot your Is before you send any money
to Aeromax and consult the CorvAircraft list archives on this mater.
There is some not so nice history there.
Michael
----- Original Message -----
From: KM Heide CPO/FAAOP
However, you can go to Aeromax Avaition
http://www.aeromaxaviation.com/aeromax-100-hp-light-aircraft-engine and
buy a kit for $6,500.00 to complete your Corvair.
I have followed Bill Clapp on these engines and his kits. He
offers some set-up different than WW and I like his components better.
My opinion is to contact Bill Clapp and visit with him. I too plan on
using a corvair engine as I will need extra power to get my extra
redundant tissue!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Aircraft drag |
I wonder if anyone has ever considered using a V-type construction on the
wing struts and doing away with the X-bracing of the wires. I am purchasing
a set of Taylorcraft wing struts from a friend of mine who had to replace
his because of some AD. He has punched the old struts and found that they
are fine. I don't see why with the proper attachment to the fuselage that V
struts wouldn't work on a Piet. Anyone who knows different, let me know.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Ruse" <steve(at)wotelectronics.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2010 11:55 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aircraft drag
>
>
> That video is absolutely fascinating. I've always heard that a round
> wire or rod has a massive drag force, but I've never seen it quantified
> like that. The small wire/large airfoil comparison is really
> enlightening. Thanks for sharing that Brian.
>
> No wonder Vne seems to be a practical limit for my plane, rather than an
> operational limit. :) I have approached Vne only a few times, in
> incredibly smooth air. I thought the entire world was falling apart. I
> am sure that Chuck Yeager himself had no greater sensation of speed when
> breaking the sound barrier for the first time than I do when approaching
> Vne in my plane. The noise and stress you feel on the airframe is an eye
> opener.
>
> Steve Ruse
> Norman, OK
>
> Quoting brian.e.jardine@l-3com.com:
>
>>
>> Interesting to watch........ a little old school but the info about drag
>> is still relevant.
>>
>>
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftq8jTQ8ANE
>>
>> Brian
>> SLC-UT
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Silvius" <silvius(at)gwi.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Corvair Engine |
Some good reading on Corvairs here.
http://issuu.com/panzera/docs/issue_75
and
http://issuu.com/panzera/docs/issue_95
Michael
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Aircraft drag |
| From: | gboothe5(at)comcast.net |
You cannot do away with the x-bracing, but you can certainly use those T-craft
struts!
Gary
Sent on the Sprint Now Network from my BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net>
Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2010 13:34:22
I wonder if anyone has ever considered using a V-type construction on the
wing struts and doing away with the X-bracing of the wires. I am purchasing
a set of Taylorcraft wing struts from a friend of mine who had to replace
his because of some AD. He has punched the old struts and found that they
are fine. I don't see why with the proper attachment to the fuselage that V
struts wouldn't work on a Piet. Anyone who knows different, let me know.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Ruse" <steve(at)wotelectronics.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2010 11:55 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aircraft drag
>
>
> That video is absolutely fascinating. I've always heard that a round
> wire or rod has a massive drag force, but I've never seen it quantified
> like that. The small wire/large airfoil comparison is really
> enlightening. Thanks for sharing that Brian.
>
> No wonder Vne seems to be a practical limit for my plane, rather than an
> operational limit. :) I have approached Vne only a few times, in
> incredibly smooth air. I thought the entire world was falling apart. I
> am sure that Chuck Yeager himself had no greater sensation of speed when
> breaking the sound barrier for the first time than I do when approaching
> Vne in my plane. The noise and stress you feel on the airframe is an eye
> opener.
>
> Steve Ruse
> Norman, OK
>
> Quoting brian.e.jardine@l-3com.com:
>
>>
>> Interesting to watch........ a little old school but the info about drag
>> is still relevant.
>>
>>
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftq8jTQ8ANE
>>
>> Brian
>> SLC-UT
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Aircraft drag |
| From: | Kip and Beth Gardner <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net> |
Careful Charles, you'll draw the wrath of the 'stick to the plans' crowd if you're
not careful - deviance shall be punished! :)
And a Merry Christmas to everyone, too !
Kip Gardner
On Dec 23, 2010, at 1:34 PM, Charles Campbell wrote:
>
> I wonder if anyone has ever considered using a V-type construction on the wing
struts and doing away with the X-bracing of the wires. I am purchasing a set
of Taylorcraft wing struts from a friend of mine who had to replace his because
of some AD. He has punched the old struts and found that they are fine.
I don't see why with the proper attachment to the fuselage that V struts wouldn't
work on a Piet. Anyone who knows different, let me know.
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Ruse" <steve(at)wotelectronics.com>
> To:
> Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2010 11:55 AM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aircraft drag
>
>
>>
>> That video is absolutely fascinating. I've always heard that a round wire or
rod has a massive drag force, but I've never seen it quantified like that.
The small wire/large airfoil comparison is really enlightening. Thanks for
sharing that Brian.
>>
>> No wonder Vne seems to be a practical limit for my plane, rather than an operational
limit. :) I have approached Vne only a few times, in incredibly smooth
air. I thought the entire world was falling apart. I am sure that Chuck
Yeager himself had no greater sensation of speed when breaking the sound barrier
for the first time than I do when approaching Vne in my plane. The noise
and stress you feel on the airframe is an eye opener.
>>
>> Steve Ruse
>> Norman, OK
>>
>> Quoting brian.e.jardine@l-3com.com:
>>
>>>
>>> Interesting to watch........ a little old school but the info about drag
>>> is still relevant.
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftq8jTQ8ANE
>>>
>>> Brian
>>> SLC-UT
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Cardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net> |
Compared to the axle, wheels, cables, hardware, etc...the wood is a minor
weight contributor to the landing gear system.
The legs on NX18235 are ash and have held up to 250 hours of my abuse. Some
of that abuse has been downright teeth-jarring.
Merry Christmas,
Greg Cardinal
Minneapolis
----- Original Message -----
From: "bender" <jfaith(at)solairusaviation.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2010 10:31 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: wood legs
>
>
> i know this horse gets beaten a lot but.... i'm about to build the wooden
> gear and i'm thinking about wood... my fuselage is all poplar and i'm
> totally comfortable with the wood and it's strength.. but... do i use it
> for the gear legs like i'm thinking i should ?? i've read that ash for the
> legs is really overkill and i'm not a rebel but it's not going to be
> spruce.. i really like picking boards from the pile myself and there is no
> spruce in kentucky
>
> jeff
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324178#324178
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Tunnicliffe" <zk-owl(at)CLEAR.NET.NZ> |
| Subject: | Re: Fw: Steam Power |
Watch this space, I have the airframe 3/4 done and the engine 1/2 done,
3 cylinder radial uniflow, the boiler yet to do, to fly as a single
seater.
----- Original Message -----
From: Charles Campbell
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, December 24, 2010 2:28 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fw: Steam Power
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2010 8:25 AM
Subject: Steam Power
http://www.wxpnews.com/1TG846/100126-Steam-Powered-Airplane
Has anyone ever thought about powering a Piet with steam?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fw: Steam Power |
Well, I was just kidding -- had no idea someone was working on it. Way
to go! More power to you. Keep us advised as to how it's coming along.
Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Tunnicliffe
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2010 4:12 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fw: Steam Power
Watch this space, I have the airframe 3/4 done and the engine 1/2
done, 3 cylinder radial uniflow, the boiler yet to do, to fly as a
single seater.
----- Original Message -----
From: Charles Campbell
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, December 24, 2010 2:28 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fw: Steam Power
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2010 8:25 AM
Subject: Steam Power
http://www.wxpnews.com/1TG846/100126-Steam-Powered-Airplane
Has anyone ever thought about powering a Piet with steam?
href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Aircraft drag |
Yeah! I'll probably stick to the plans. Except after viewing that video
I'll probably streamline my gear legs. Use some balsa and light fibreglass
should do it.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kip and Beth Gardner" <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net>
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2010 3:00 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aircraft drag
>
>
> Careful Charles, you'll draw the wrath of the 'stick to the plans' crowd
> if you're not careful - deviance shall be punished! :)
>
> And a Merry Christmas to everyone, too !
>
> Kip Gardner
>
> On Dec 23, 2010, at 1:34 PM, Charles Campbell wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> I wonder if anyone has ever considered using a V-type construction on the
>> wing struts and doing away with the X-bracing of the wires. I am
>> purchasing a set of Taylorcraft wing struts from a friend of mine who had
>> to replace his because of some AD. He has punched the old struts and
>> found that they are fine. I don't see why with the proper attachment to
>> the fuselage that V struts wouldn't work on a Piet. Anyone who knows
>> different, let me know.
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Ruse"
>>
>> To:
>> Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2010 11:55 AM
>> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aircraft drag
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> That video is absolutely fascinating. I've always heard that a round
>>> wire or rod has a massive drag force, but I've never seen it quantified
>>> like that. The small wire/large airfoil comparison is really
>>> enlightening. Thanks for sharing that Brian.
>>>
>>> No wonder Vne seems to be a practical limit for my plane, rather than
>>> an operational limit. :) I have approached Vne only a few times, in
>>> incredibly smooth air. I thought the entire world was falling apart.
>>> I am sure that Chuck Yeager himself had no greater sensation of speed
>>> when breaking the sound barrier for the first time than I do when
>>> approaching Vne in my plane. The noise and stress you feel on the
>>> airframe is an eye opener.
>>>
>>> Steve Ruse
>>> Norman, OK
>>>
>>> Quoting brian.e.jardine@l-3com.com:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Interesting to watch........ a little old school but the info about
>>>> drag
>>>> is still relevant.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftq8jTQ8ANE
>>>>
>>>> Brian
>>>> SLC-UT
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> |
Man, you ought to be able to land so that you never know when the weight of
the airplane is transferred from the wings to the wheels. I guess that
would depend on the type surface being landed upon.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Greg Cardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net>
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2010 3:07 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: wood legs
> Compared to the axle, wheels, cables, hardware, etc...the wood is a minor
> weight contributor to the landing gear system.
> The legs on NX18235 are ash and have held up to 250 hours of my abuse.
> Some
> of that abuse has been downright teeth-jarring.
>
> Merry Christmas,
>
> Greg Cardinal
> Minneapolis
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "bender" <jfaith(at)solairusaviation.com>
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2010 10:31 PM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: wood legs
>
>
>>
>>
>> i know this horse gets beaten a lot but.... i'm about to build the wooden
>> gear and i'm thinking about wood... my fuselage is all poplar and i'm
>> totally comfortable with the wood and it's strength.. but... do i use it
>> for the gear legs like i'm thinking i should ?? i've read that ash for
>> the
>> legs is really overkill and i'm not a rebel but it's not going to be
>> spruce.. i really like picking boards from the pile myself and there is
>> no
>> spruce in kentucky
>>
>> jeff
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324178#324178
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Barry Davis" <bed(at)mindspring.com> |
Greg
I hope you tighten that bolt for the wing strut and turn it over in the
process :)
Barry
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Greg
Cardinal
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2010 3:07 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: wood legs
Compared to the axle, wheels, cables, hardware, etc...the wood is a minor
weight contributor to the landing gear system.
The legs on NX18235 are ash and have held up to 250 hours of my abuse. Some
of that abuse has been downright teeth-jarring.
Merry Christmas,
Greg Cardinal
Minneapolis
----- Original Message -----
From: "bender" <jfaith(at)solairusaviation.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2010 10:31 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: wood legs
>
>
> i know this horse gets beaten a lot but.... i'm about to build the wooden
> gear and i'm thinking about wood... my fuselage is all poplar and i'm
> totally comfortable with the wood and it's strength.. but... do i use it
> for the gear legs like i'm thinking i should ?? i've read that ash for the
> legs is really overkill and i'm not a rebel but it's not going to be
> spruce.. i really like picking boards from the pile myself and there is no
> spruce in kentucky
>
> jeff
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324178#324178
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dale Johnson" <ddjohn(at)earthlink.net> |
Barry
You can't turn it over. You can't get the bolt in from the top.
That is the way it has to be.I know it is not right but that is the was it
has to be.
I am the one that built it
Take a look at Quid.us/dale
Dale Johnson
> [Original Message]
> From: Barry Davis <bed(at)mindspring.com>
> To:
> Date: 12/23/2010 4:55:35 PM
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: wood legs
>
>
> Greg
> I hope you tighten that bolt for the wing strut and turn it over in the
> process :)
> Barry
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Greg
> Cardinal
> Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2010 3:07 PM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: wood legs
>
> Compared to the axle, wheels, cables, hardware, etc...the wood is a minor
> weight contributor to the landing gear system.
> The legs on NX18235 are ash and have held up to 250 hours of my abuse.
Some
> of that abuse has been downright teeth-jarring.
>
> Merry Christmas,
>
> Greg Cardinal
> Minneapolis
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "bender" <jfaith(at)solairusaviation.com>
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2010 10:31 PM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: wood legs
>
>
> >
> >
> > i know this horse gets beaten a lot but.... i'm about to build the
wooden
> > gear and i'm thinking about wood... my fuselage is all poplar and i'm
> > totally comfortable with the wood and it's strength.. but... do i use
it
> > for the gear legs like i'm thinking i should ?? i've read that ash for
the
>
> > legs is really overkill and i'm not a rebel but it's not going to be
> > spruce.. i really like picking boards from the pile myself and there is
no
>
> > spruce in kentucky
> >
> > jeff
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324178#324178
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Piet2112" <curtdm(at)gmail.com> |
After following this discussion, I had to weigh the spruce boards I intend to make
my wooden legs from. 8' of 1/2" x 2" spruce weighs about 2.5 pounds. I will
be shaving a little of that off when I streamline them. Fairings?....I thought
the intent was low and slow.
Curt Merdan
Flower Mound, TX
Waiting to open my X-mas presents. They rattle like 4130!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324280#324280
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Cardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net> |
Once in a while I get lucky....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=suOMiQUMd7w
>
>
> Man, you ought to be able to land so that you never know when the weight
> of the airplane is transferred from the wings to the wheels. I guess that
> would depend on the type surface being landed upon.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Piet2112" <curtdm(at)gmail.com> |
After following this discussion, I had to weigh the spruce boards I intend to make
my wooden legs from. 8' of 1/2" x 2" spruce weighs about 2.5 pounds. I will
be shaving a little of that off when I streamline them. Fairings?....I thought
the intent was low and slow.
Curt Merdan
Flower Mound, TX
Waiting to open my X-mas presents. They rattle like 4130!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324282#324282
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Cardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net> |
Good catch, Barry.
The photo was taken prior to first flight during initial rigging.
Dale is correct about the lack of room to install the bolt "properly". This
is a good example of a fitting being drawn just a bit too short in the
plans.
Greg
----- Original Message -----
From: "Barry Davis" <bed(at)mindspring.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2010 4:51 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: wood legs
>
> Greg
> I hope you tighten that bolt for the wing strut and turn it over in the
> process :)
> Barry
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Greg
> Cardinal
> Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2010 3:07 PM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: wood legs
>
> Compared to the axle, wheels, cables, hardware, etc...the wood is a minor
> weight contributor to the landing gear system.
> The legs on NX18235 are ash and have held up to 250 hours of my abuse.
> Some
> of that abuse has been downright teeth-jarring.
>
> Merry Christmas,
>
> Greg Cardinal
> Minneapolis
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "bender" <jfaith(at)solairusaviation.com>
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2010 10:31 PM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: wood legs
>
>
>>
>>
>> i know this horse gets beaten a lot but.... i'm about to build the wooden
>> gear and i'm thinking about wood... my fuselage is all poplar and i'm
>> totally comfortable with the wood and it's strength.. but... do i use it
>> for the gear legs like i'm thinking i should ?? i've read that ash for
>> the
>
>> legs is really overkill and i'm not a rebel but it's not going to be
>> spruce.. i really like picking boards from the pile myself and there is
>> no
>
>> spruce in kentucky
>>
>> jeff
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324178#324178
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca> |
Hmmm... just did a quick calculation based on the numbers provided by Curt.
Provided the data is precise, that sounds like a heavy chunk of spruce.
1/2" x 2" x 96" = 96 cu.in., or 0.0555 cu.ft.
2.5 lb/.0555 cu.ft. = 45 lb/cu.ft.
That's quite a bit higher than the published value of 28 lb/cu.ft.
Something doesn't sound right.
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324287#324287
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Catdesigns" <Catdesigns(at)att.net> |
Greg ,
That is my point. The wood gear already adds a lot of weight to the plane so there
is no need to add unnecessary weigh by using heavy wood. You did however
make me question my assumption so out of curiosity I decided to calculate the
amount of wood in the wood gear. Using a streamlined 1-inch by 2.5-inch shape
with the dimensions from the wood gear plans, I calculate approximately 171
cubic inches total wood needed or roughly 0.1 cubic feet. Its probably a bit
more but it would take a lot more to be significant. This is very fortunate as
it makes the weight calculation easy. It appears that the theoretical difference
between using spruce versus hickory would be 2.2 pounds. The more commonly
use ash adds an addition 1 .1 pounds.
As they say, a pound here a pound there, it all adds up.
--------
Chris
Sacramento, CA
WestCoastPiet.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324288#324288
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Piet2112" <curtdm(at)gmail.com> |
Disclaimer....I used the bathroom scale that my wife says is inaccurate. It always
reads heavier than it should.
Curt Merdan
Flower Mound, TX
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324290#324290
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Aircraft drag |
| From: | helspersew(at)aol.com |
Charles,
You can build it any way you like...........but if you use those "V" struts
, you will be forbidden from calling it a Pietenpol. Also, keep in mind, if
you show up at Brodhead, you will be
banished to the far side of the airport, where the spam cans park.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
-----Original Message-----
From: Charles Campbell <cncampbell(at)windstream.net>
Sent: Thu, Dec 23, 2010 12:38 pm
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aircraft drag
ream.net>
I wonder if anyone has ever considered using a V-type construction on the
ing struts and doing away with the X-bracing of the wires. I am purchasing
set of Taylorcraft wing struts from a friend of mine who had to replace
is because of some AD. He has punched the old struts and found that they
re fine. I don't see why with the proper attachment to the fuselage that V
truts wouldn't work on a Piet. Anyone who knows different, let me know.
---- Original Message -----
rom: "Steve Ruse"
o:
ent: Thursday, December 23, 2010 11:55 AM
ubject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aircraft drag
That video is absolutely fascinating. I've always heard that a round
wire or rod has a massive drag force, but I've never seen it quantified
like that. The small wire/large airfoil comparison is really
enlightening. Thanks for sharing that Brian.
No wonder Vne seems to be a practical limit for my plane, rather than an
operational limit. :) I have approached Vne only a few times, in
incredibly smooth air. I thought the entire world was falling apart. I
am sure that Chuck Yeager himself had no greater sensation of speed when
breaking the sound barrier for the first time than I do when approaching
Vne in my plane. The noise and stress you feel on the airframe is an eye
opener.
Steve Ruse
Norman, OK
Quoting brian.e.jardine@l-3com.com:
>
> Interesting to watch........ a little old school but the info about drag
> is still relevant.
>
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftq8jTQ8ANE
>
> Brian
> SLC-UT
>
>
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gboothe5" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
The old recording of the effects of different profiles on drag was
interesting, but, remember, drag is a function of velocity, too. The
examples shown were at 210 mph. Before anyone spends undue time, effort and
expense on streamlining their steel landing gear, flying wires, etc, you
might consider that you will very seldom be flying any faster than 1/3 the
speed of the demonstration. I seriously doubt if it's worth the effort.
Gary Boothe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | engine vs cruise speeds (was corvair) |
How about weights Jack, Are you in the 630-650 range?=C2- I know the Corv
air is probably at least 60-80 lbs hevier with electric start.=C2- The ba
d thing about ours is the small 13 gal fuel capacity in the wing tank.=C2
- It has almost got me in trouble when flying 100+ miles to a fly in and
expecting to get fuel only to find out they ran out.=C2- I think I rememb
er hearing about a spredsheet someone was working on for flying piets, did
this include empty wt, engine, v-speeds etc.=C2- If I knew how to do it I
would attempt it, but then again this being a group of builder /pilots I a
m sure our numbers would be a little "far from accurate".=C2- A more prac
tical pietenpol airspeed indicator would have "ish" after the number.....60
-ish, 70-ish,....or probably best would be SLUG-ISH.
=C2-
Shad
--- On Thu, 12/23/10, Jack Phillips wrote:
From: Jack Phillips <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Engine
Date: Thursday, December 23, 2010, 6:06 AM
Shad, it depends on the propeller.=C2- Last summer, when I ferried Ryan M
ueller=99s new A65 Continental powered Pietenpol (bought from Gene Pe
nnington) from west Tennessee to Brodhead, I was accompanied by Randy Bush
in his Corvair powered Pietenpol.=C2- I expected to have difficulty keepi
ng up with Randy with all the power the Corvair produces, but instead I fou
nd I had to throttle back to allow him to keep up with me.=C2- Ryan
=99s Piet has a beautiful Cloudcars scimitar prop and it performs much bett
er than my A65 powered Piet with a Sensenich prop.=C2- I want to get one
of those props for mine!
=C2-
Jack Phillips
NX899JP=C2- =9CIcarus Plummet=9D
Raleigh, NC
=C2-
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-lis
t-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of shad bell
Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2010 10:27 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Engine
=C2-
Nothing wrong with the corvair.........Except you have to throttle way back
and apply carb heat when flying with other ford, lambert,=C2-and contine
ntal powered piets.=C2- Just ask Don E., and Frank Pavliga, Flew all the
way home from OSH in 2009 with the throttle pulled back.=C2- Now for a se
rious note, we get an honest 78-83 mph cruise at about 5 to 5.5=C2-gallon
s per hr with a Heggy 66-30 prop.=C2- The continental is a great engine a
s well, and I would guess that the light weight of the cont. compared to th
e corvair, you will get at least a 5 mph reduction in stall speed, and defi
ninatly have a lighter airplane (probably 80-100lbs lighter).=C2- I think
most 65 powered piets come in around 620-640 lbs, Ours is 730lbs, and I be
lieve the few other wooden corvair piets I have seen=C2-are within 10-20
lbs of ours.=C2-The corvair can sometimes be a R&D project untill you get
it all wrung out, after that part is done it is like going out to start yo
ur car and flying it
around. If you decide corvair, do your homework, get Wynne's manual, and u
se the resorces and people's knowlage and experiance who have built and flo
wn the engine.=C2- It can be reliable,=C2-or it can kill you if you don
't learn from other's mistakes, and take advantage of others succeses and d
evelopments.
=C2-
off my soapbox now
=C2-
Merry Christmas to all
Shad
=C2- =C2- =C2-www.buildersbooks.comhttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator
?Pietenpol-Listhttp://forums.matronics.com
=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Aircraft drag |
I think he did. Don't remember for sure but there are pics on westcoastpiet.com
Also, his video of flying his Air Camper is really worth getting....and it shows
the struts up close a lot of times.
jm
-----Original Message-----
>From: Charles Campbell <cncampbell(at)windstream.net>
>Sent: Dec 23, 2010 10:46 AM
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aircraft drag
>
>
>How about steel tube landing gear struts. Did he streamline them also or
>did he use wood?
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
>To:
>Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2010 10:27 AM
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aircraft drag
>
>
>>
>>
>> Now THAT is INTERESTING! Well, so much for NOT streamlining struts and
>> cabanes! I remember wondering why Chuck Gantzer went to so much trouble
>> adding all that streamlining to his struts.... Hand carving balsa,
>> overlaying fabric....but he reduced drag by a HUGE factor.
>>
>> Very interesting video and should be required viewing!
>>
>> Thanks Brian, very interesting.
>>
>> jm
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>>>From: brian.e.jardine@l-3com.com
>>>Sent: Dec 23, 2010 10:01 AM
>>>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>>>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Aircraft drag
>>>
>>>
>>>Interesting to watch........ a little old school but the info about drag
>>>is still relevant.
>>>
>>>
>>>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftq8jTQ8ANE
>>>
>>>Brian
>>>SLC-UT
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Aircraft drag |
Yeah, I thought of that, too. Wish someone would do a similar test at 85
MPH. Wonder how that would come out?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gboothe5" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2010 7:28 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Aircraft drag
>
> The old recording of the effects of different profiles on drag was
> interesting, but, remember, drag is a function of velocity, too. The
> examples shown were at 210 mph. Before anyone spends undue time, effort
> and
> expense on streamlining their steel landing gear, flying wires, etc, you
> might consider that you will very seldom be flying any faster than 1/3 the
> speed of the demonstration. I seriously doubt if it's worth the effort.
>
> Gary Boothe
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Aircraft drag |
OK! OK! I give. Two struts it is with cross wires -- just like the
plans say to do it!
----- Original Message -----
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2010 7:21 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aircraft drag
Charles,
You can build it any way you like...........but if you use those "V"
struts, you will be forbidden from calling it a Pietenpol. Also, keep in
mind, if you show up at Brodhead, you will be
banished to the far side of the airport, where the spam cans park.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
-----Original Message-----
From: Charles Campbell <cncampbell(at)windstream.net>
To: pietenpol-list
Sent: Thu, Dec 23, 2010 12:38 pm
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aircraft drag
I wonder if anyone has ever considered using a V-type construction on
the
wing struts and doing away with the X-bracing of the wires. I am
purchasing
a set of Taylorcraft wing struts from a friend of mine who had to
replace
his because of some AD. He has punched the old struts and found that
they
are fine. I don't see why with the proper attachment to the fuselage
that V
struts wouldn't work on a Piet. Anyone who knows different, let me
know.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Ruse" <steve(at)wotelectronics.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2010 11:55 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aircraft drag
>
>
> That video is absolutely fascinating. I've always heard that a round
> wire or rod has a massive drag force, but I've never seen it
quantified
> like that. The small wire/large airfoil comparison is really
> enlightening. Thanks for sharing that Brian.
>
> No wonder Vne seems to be a practical limit for my plane, rather than
an
> operational limit. :) I have approached Vne only a few times, in
> incredibly smooth air. I thought the entire world was falling apart.
I
> am sure that Chuck Yeager himself had no greater sensation of speed
when
> breaking the sound barrier for the first time than I do when
approaching
> Vne in my plane. The noise and stress you feel on the airframe is an
eye
> opener.
>
> Steve Ruse
> Norman, OK
>
> Quoting brian.e.jardine@l-3com.com:
>
>>
>> Interesting to watch........ a little old school but the info about
drag
>> is still relevant.
>>
>>
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftq8jTQ8ANE
>>
>> Brian
>> SLC-UT
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
_blank>www.aeroelectric.com
/" target=_blank>www.buildersbooks.com
=_blank>www.homebuilthelp.com
blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
p://forums.matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gliderx5(at)comcast.net |
| Subject: | Re: Aircraft drag |
I'm using V struts on my Piet. I hope to have it flying in 2011. I've seen pics
of at least one other flying Piet with V struts.
Malcolm Morrison
http://home.comcast.net/~mmorrison123/piet.html
----- Original Message -----
From: "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net>
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2010 1:34:22 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aircraft drag
I wonder if anyone has ever considered using a V-type construction on the
wing struts and doing away with the X-bracing of the wires. I am purchasing
a set of Taylorcraft wing struts from a friend of mine who had to replace
his because of some AD. He has punched the old struts and found that they
are fine. I don't see why with the proper attachment to the fuselage that V
struts wouldn't work on a Piet. Anyone who knows different, let me know.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Ruse" <steve(at)wotelectronics.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2010 11:55 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aircraft drag
>
>
> That video is absolutely fascinating. I've always heard that a round
> wire or rod has a massive drag force, but I've never seen it quantified
> like that. The small wire/large airfoil comparison is really
> enlightening. Thanks for sharing that Brian.
>
> No wonder Vne seems to be a practical limit for my plane, rather than an
> operational limit. :) I have approached Vne only a few times, in
> incredibly smooth air. I thought the entire world was falling apart. I
> am sure that Chuck Yeager himself had no greater sensation of speed when
> breaking the sound barrier for the first time than I do when approaching
> Vne in my plane. The noise and stress you feel on the airframe is an eye
> opener.
>
> Steve Ruse
> Norman, OK
>
> Quoting brian.e.jardine@l-3com.com:
>
>>
>> Interesting to watch........ a little old school but the info about drag
>> is still relevant.
>>
>>
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftq8jTQ8ANE
>>
>> Brian
>> SLC-UT
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kip and Beth Gardner <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Aircraft drag |
SEE what I mean Charles - the retribution begins!
On Dec 23, 2010, at 7:21 PM, helspersew(at)aol.com wrote:
> Charles,
>
> You can build it any way you like...........but if you use those "V"
> struts, you will be forbidden from calling it a Pietenpol. Also,
> keep in mind, if you show up at Brodhead, you will be
> banished to the far side of the airport, where the spam cans park.
>
> Dan Helsper
> Poplar Grove, IL.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Charles Campbell <cncampbell(at)windstream.net>
> To: pietenpol-list
> Sent: Thu, Dec 23, 2010 12:38 pm
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aircraft drag
>
> >
>
> I wonder if anyone has ever considered using a V-type construction
> on the
> wing struts and doing away with the X-bracing of the wires. I am
> purchasing
> a set of Taylorcraft wing struts from a friend of mine who had to
> replace
> his because of some AD. He has punched the old struts and found
> that they
> are fine. I don't see why with the proper attachment to the
> fuselage that V
> struts wouldn't work on a Piet. Anyone who knows different, let me
> know.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Steve Ruse" <steve(at)wotelectronics.com>
> To:
> Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2010 11:55 AM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aircraft drag
>
>
> >
> >
> > That video is absolutely fascinating. I've always heard that a
> round
> > wire or rod has a massive drag force, but I've never seen it
> quantified
> > like that. The small wire/large airfoil comparison is really
> > enlightening. Thanks for sharing that Brian.
> >
> > No wonder Vne seems to be a practical limit for my plane, rather
> than an
> > operational limit. :) I have approached Vne only a few times, in
> > incredibly smooth air. I thought the entire world was falling
> apart. I
> > am sure that Chuck Yeager himself had no greater sensation of
> speed when
> > breaking the sound barrier for the first time than I do when
> approaching
> > Vne in my plane. The noise and stress you feel on the airframe
> is an eye
> > opener.
> >
> > Steve Ruse
> > Norman, OK
> >
> > Quoting brian.e.jardine@l-3com.com:
> >
> >>
> >> Interesting to watch........ a little old school but the info
> about drag
> >> is still relevant.
> >>
> >>
> >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftq8jTQ8ANE
> >>
> >> Brian
> >> SLC-UT
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> _blank>www.aeroelectric.com
> /" target=_blank>www.buildersbooks.com
> =_blank>www.homebuilthelp.com
> blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> " target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> p://forums.matronics.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Aircraft drag |
| From: | Kenneth Bickers <bickers.ken(at)gmail.com> |
All,
I found this video fascinating, too, as I've been thinking about whether an
d
how much to try to streamline various parts of the airplane. But Gary is
probably right. It probably doesn't pay to get carried away with drag
reduction. From one of my sources on aerodynamics, the formula for
parasitic drag is as follows:
drag force = =C2=BD=CF=81*V*2 =C3=97 coefficient of drag =C3=97 area
Since, for a given airframe (coefficient of drag and area) and air density
(the =CF=81 term), the only variable that varies is velocity (V). And that
one
varies alot in its impact. Reducing the velocity from 210 to 70 (i.e. a
reduction to 1/3 the prior speed), will reduce the drag by a ratio of 9 to
1.
So the key is to not try to fly your Pietenpol at 210 mph. Flying at 70
means that you can reduce your efforts at drag reduction to a ninth of what
you'd otherwise have to spend time and money attempting.
Cheers, Ken
On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 7:08 PM, Charles Campbell wrote:
> OK! OK! I give. Two struts it is with cross wires -- just like the plan
s
> say to do it!
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* helspersew(at)aol.com
> *To:* pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> *Sent:* Thursday, December 23, 2010 7:21 PM
> *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: Aircraft drag
>
> Charles,
>
> You can build it any way you like...........but if you use those "V"
> struts, you will be forbidden from calling it a Pietenpol. Also, keep in
> mind, if you show up at Brodhead, you will be
> banished to the far side of the airport, where the spam cans park.
>
> Dan Helsper
> Poplar Grove, IL.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Charles Campbell <cncampbell(at)windstream.net>
> To: pietenpol-list
> Sent: Thu, Dec 23, 2010 12:38 pm
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aircraft drag
>
stream.net
> >
>
> I wonder if anyone has ever considered using a V-type construction on the
> wing struts and doing away with the X-bracing of the wires. I am purchas
ing
> a set of Taylorcraft wing struts from a friend of mine who had to replace
> his because of some AD. He has punched the old struts and found that the
y
> are fine. I don't see why with the proper attachment to the fuselage tha
t V
> struts wouldn't work on a Piet. Anyone who knows different, let me know.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Steve Ruse" <steve(at)wotelectronics.com>
> To:
> Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2010 11:55 AM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aircraft drag
>
>
> >
> >
> > That video is absolutely fascinating. I've always heard that a round
> > wire or rod has a massive drag force, but I've never seen it quantifie
d
> > like that. The small wire/large airfoil comparison is really
> > enlightening. Thanks for sharing that Brian.
> >
> > No wonder Vne seems to be a practical limit for my plane, rather than
an
> > operational limit. :) I have approached Vne only a few times, in
> > incredibly smooth air. I thought the entire world was falling apart.
I
> > am sure that Chuck Yeager himself had no greater sensation of speed wh
en
> > breaking the sound barrier for the first time than I do when approachi
ng
> > Vne in my plane. The noise and stress you feel on the airframe is an
eye
> > opener.
> >
> > Steve Ruse
> > Norman, OK
> >
> > Quoting brian.e.jardine@l-3com.com:
> >
>
> >>
> >> Interesting to watch........ a little old school but the info about dr
ag
> >> is still relevant.
> >>
> >>
> >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftq8jTQ8ANE
>
> >>
> >> Brian
> >> SLC-UT
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> _blank>www.aeroelectric.com
>
> /" target=_blank>www.buildersbooks.com
> =_blank>www.homebuilthelp.com
>
> blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> " target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> p://forums.matronics.com
>
>
> *
>
> href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
> href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
> href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matro
nics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com*
>
> *
>
===========
===========
===========
============*
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Aircraft drag |
| From: | mike Hardaway <bkemike(at)gmail.com> |
Gary is correct in that drag is a function of the square of velocity.
However, the numbers in the video are relative values for the shapes shown,
all at the same velocity. For the round tube and the airfoil that are the
same thickness perpendicular to the relative wind, those relative values
represent a comparison of the drag coefficients which are constant across
the speed spectrum (until you get into transonic speeds).
This means that a round lift strut on a Piet, say 2" diameter, will have
about nine times the drag of a streamlined lift strut that is 2" thick, at
all speeds attainable in a Piet, (even if Corvair powered).
Both drag values will be much higher at 210 mph, but still have the same
values relative to each other.
Mike Hardaway
On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 4:28 PM, Gboothe5 wrote:
>
> The old recording of the effects of different profiles on drag was
> interesting, but, remember, drag is a function of velocity, too. The
> examples shown were at 210 mph. Before anyone spends undue time, effort and
> expense on streamlining their steel landing gear, flying wires, etc, you
> might consider that you will very seldom be flying any faster than 1/3 the
> speed of the demonstration. I seriously doubt if it's worth the effort.
>
> Gary Boothe
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Aircraft drag |
| From: | steve emo <steve.emo58(at)gmail.com> |
outside of being an academic discussion on the key drag parameters one
should really think about what they want out of a Piet, and where the major
drag contributors come from. Simply streamlining the gear legs will not
likely make a large change in the total aircraft drag. Remember one still
has how many feet of wire are in the slipstream, and what about the drag
caused by the wings under-camber? I agree with the statement of return for
your effort. Not to say that it wouldn't look cool...I just doubt if you
could measure the difference.
Steve
On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 8:46 PM, mike Hardaway wrote:
> Gary is correct in that drag is a function of the square of velocity.
> However, the numbers in the video are relative values for the shapes shown,
> all at the same velocity. For the round tube and the airfoil that are the
> same thickness perpendicular to the relative wind, those relative values
> represent a comparison of the drag coefficients which are constant across
> the speed spectrum (until you get into transonic speeds).
> This means that a round lift strut on a Piet, say 2" diameter, will have
> about nine times the drag of a streamlined lift strut that is 2" thick, at
> all speeds attainable in a Piet, (even if Corvair powered).
> Both drag values will be much higher at 210 mph, but still have the same
> values relative to each other.
> Mike Hardaway
>
> On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 4:28 PM, Gboothe5 wrote:
>
>>
>> The old recording of the effects of different profiles on drag was
>> interesting, but, remember, drag is a function of velocity, too. The
>> examples shown were at 210 mph. Before anyone spends undue time, effort
>> and
>> expense on streamlining their steel landing gear, flying wires, etc, you
>> might consider that you will very seldom be flying any faster than 1/3 the
>> speed of the demonstration. I seriously doubt if it's worth the effort.
>>
>> Gary Boothe
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ==========
>> ="_blank">www.aeroelectric.com
>> ooks.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
>> et="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
>>
>> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> le, List Admin.
>> ==========
>> st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>> ==========
>> http://forums.matronics.com
>> ==========
>>
>>
>>
>>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ernie Moreno" <ewmoreno(at)minetfiber.com> |
Hello Greg, I saw your video of you landing your Piet and the question
came up to what size bungee did you use and what was the gross weight of
your Piet is ?
Ernie Moreno
Independence, Or
Piet driver N2431
----- Original Message -----
From: Greg Cardinal
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2010 12:07 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: wood legs
Compared to the axle, wheels, cables, hardware, etc...the wood is a
minor
weight contributor to the landing gear system.
The legs on NX18235 are ash and have held up to 250 hours of my abuse.
Some
of that abuse has been downright teeth-jarring.
Merry Christmas,
Greg Cardinal
Minneapolis
----- Original Message -----
From: "bender" <jfaith(at)solairusaviation.com>
To:
Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2010 10:31 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: wood legs
>
>
> i know this horse gets beaten a lot but.... i'm about to build the
wooden
> gear and i'm thinking about wood... my fuselage is all poplar and
i'm
> totally comfortable with the wood and it's strength.. but... do i
use it
> for the gear legs like i'm thinking i should ?? i've read that ash
for the
> legs is really overkill and i'm not a rebel but it's not going to be
> spruce.. i really like picking boards from the pile myself and there
is no
> spruce in kentucky
>
> jeff
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324178#324178
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "wayne(at)taildraggersinc.com" <wayne(at)taildraggersinc.com> |
These are photos from January 2010 of Gene Rambo's Pietenpol. I had
originally interviewed Gene for a short write up on my website, but I
still haven't gotten around to typing up the details. Yes, that makes
me a bonafide slacker. Sorry, Gene.
I did finally manage to put together a photo album worthy of Gene's Piet.
Pics are here:
http://www.taildraggersinc.com/images/gallery/gallery/rambo_piet/rambo_piet.html
Or here if you like short URL's: http://tiny.cc/9jpkz
Thanks,
Wayne Bressler
Taildraggers, Inc.
www.taildraggersinc.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Cardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net> |
1/2" bungee cord, empty wt is 620# and gross wt is 1320 but has never
flown that heavy. The practical gross wt is more like 1200 - 1250.
Greg
----- Original Message -----
From: Ernie Moreno
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2010 9:44 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: wood legs
Hello Greg, I saw your video of you landing your Piet and the question
came up to what size bungee did you use and what was the gross weight of
your Piet is ?
Ernie Moreno
Independence, Or
Piet driver N2431
----- Original Message -----
From: Greg Cardinal
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2010 12:07 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: wood legs
Compared to the axle, wheels, cables, hardware, etc...the wood is a
minor
weight contributor to the landing gear system.
The legs on NX18235 are ash and have held up to 250 hours of my
abuse. Some
of that abuse has been downright teeth-jarring.
Merry Christmas,
Greg Cardinal
Minneapolis
----- Original Message -----
From: "bender" <jfaith(at)solairusaviation.com>
To:
Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2010 10:31 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: wood legs
>
>
> i know this horse gets beaten a lot but.... i'm about to build the
wooden
> gear and i'm thinking about wood... my fuselage is all poplar and
i'm
> totally comfortable with the wood and it's strength.. but... do i
use it
> for the gear legs like i'm thinking i should ?? i've read that ash
for the
> legs is really overkill and i'm not a rebel but it's not going to
be
> spruce.. i really like picking boards from the pile myself and
there is no
> spruce in kentucky
>
> jeff
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324178#324178
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
12/23/10
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | hvandervoo(at)aol.com |
Merry Christmas everyone !
Hans
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "bender" <jfaith(at)solairusaviation.com> |
i totally agree with not adding more weight than necessary .... i've been throwing
all the wood pieces in the air.... the ones that don't come down i put on
the plane and the ones that do come down i cut up till they fly too..
43.13 says poplar is actually stronger in compression and in shear than spruce.....
seems that would be a good thing on the gear
thanks for all the replies...
jeff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324341#324341
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ben Charvet <bencharvet(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: The Rambo Piet |
Great pictures! Looks like Gene has some excellent workmanship there.
Brings back lots of memories. Its a shame that most of that workmanship
gets covered up or painted over. Can't wait to see the finished product
at Brodhead
Ben Charvet
NX866BC
Titusville, Fl
On 12/24/2010 12:24 AM, wayne(at)taildraggersinc.com wrote:
> These are photos from January 2010 of Gene Rambo's Pietenpol. I had
> originally interviewed Gene for a short write up on my website, but I
> still haven't gotten around to typing up the details. Yes, that makes
> me a bonafide slacker. Sorry, Gene.
>
> I did finally manage to put together a photo album worthy of Gene's Piet.
>
> Pics are here:
> http://www.taildraggersinc.com/images/gallery/gallery/rambo_piet/rambo_piet.html
>
> Or here if you like short URL's: http://tiny.cc/9jpkz
>
> Thanks,
>
> Wayne Bressler
> Taildraggers, Inc.
> www.taildraggersinc.com
> *
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Chuck Gantzer's faring.... |
Don't know if this has been mentioned already but.....
Here are pics of Chuck Gantzer's faring on his landing gear. I thought he used
balsa but it looks like he used (at least on the landing gear) a hot wire and
foam that he cut to shape. Should have known, all of us previous RC builders
use something we learned from those fun experiences!
I once built a hollow core, carbon fiber wing for a high performance RC glider....hmmm,
maybe a hollow core Riblett for an Air Camper? NAHHH!!!
Anyway, just as a follow up...there's a bit of info on these pages:
http://nx770cg.com/Fuselage.html
JM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | helspersew(at)aol.com |
Really nice work Gene. Please report your status on the covering. Love thos
e instruments. Are you on track for Brodhead?
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jimisown(at)aol.com |
When is Brodhead?
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Merry Cristmas |
Right back attcha!
----- Original Message -----
From: hvandervoo(at)aol.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, December 24, 2010 9:06 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Merry Cristmas
Merry Christmas everyone !
Hans
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> |
| Subject: | Re: The Rambo Piet |
The only thing he really has to cover are the wings and tail parts. How
would that look?
----- Original Message -----
From: Ben Charvet
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, December 24, 2010 9:20 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: The Rambo Piet
Great pictures! Looks like Gene has some excellent workmanship there.
Brings back lots of memories. Its a shame that most of that
workmanship gets covered up or painted over. Can't wait to see the
finished product at Brodhead
Ben Charvet
NX866BC
Titusville, Fl
On 12/24/2010 12:24 AM, wayne(at)taildraggersinc.com wrote:
These are photos from January 2010 of Gene Rambo's Pietenpol. I had
originally interviewed Gene for a short write up on my website, but I
still haven't gotten around to typing up the details. Yes, that makes
me a bonafide slacker. Sorry, Gene.
I did finally manage to put together a photo album worthy of Gene's
Piet.
Pics are here:
http://www.taildraggersinc.com/images/gallery/gallery/rambo_piet/rambo_pi
et.html
Or here if you like short URL's: http://tiny.cc/9jpkz
Thanks,
Wayne Bressler
Taildraggers, Inc.
www.taildraggersinc.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com> |
It's always the weekend before Oshkosh, which would put it around July 22,
23, 24 in 2011. Keep an eye on the Calendar of Events at the 431 website and
the BPA website (or better yet the BPA newsletter) to confirm.
http://www.eaa431.org/
<http://www.eaa431.org/>http://www.pietenpols.org/index.html
<http://www.pietenpols.org/index.html>Ryan
On Fri, Dec 24, 2010 at 8:53 AM, wrote:
>
> When is Brodhead?
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
Around July 21 in 2011. Usually the weekend before Oshkosh. Not sure what it
is "officially" but that Thu-Sat is when I have found most of the activities....
jm
-----Original Message-----
>From: jimisown(at)aol.com
>Sent: Dec 24, 2010 8:53 AM
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead
>
>
>When is Brodhead?
>Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: covering around fuse fittings? |
| From: | "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca> |
Jeff, just as Oscar suggested.
BC
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324358#324358
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/brodhead_20070720_042_207.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: covering around fuse fittings? |
| From: | "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca> |
Jeff, just as Oscar suggested.
BC
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324360#324360
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/brodhead_20070720_042_207.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "TriScout" <apfelcyber(at)yahoo.com> |
Was reading Gantzer's study on Piet accident history he did a few yrs back. I find
it to be interesting reading. I'm sure this question was axed/answered many
times before, but does anyone have a good estimate on how many flyable Piets
and GN-1's are out there in the world?
Hppy Hldys/Mrry Xmas
Ler
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324361#324361
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: covering around fuse fittings? |
Neat!
>
>Jeff, just as Oscar suggested.
>
>BC
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324358#324358
>
>
>Attachments:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com//files/brodhead_20070720_042_207.jpg
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gene Rambo <generambo(at)msn.com> |
Sorry=2C Guys=2C I have been lurking but not participating or responding la
tely. My Dad had a stroke a couple of weeks ago and I have been spending a
lot of time tyraveling back and forth to Georgia. He is OK=2C and things
are calming down.
The recent photos are=2C like he said=2C from last January=2C so alot has
changed since then. I think Jack Phillips posted some photos of the comple
ted Piet this October after he came up and helped me finish off a lot of de
tails and start covering. It has now turned too cold to do anything in my
hangar. Before it did=2C I go the wing covered and about 2/3 of the ribs s
titched. (BTW=2C I did not glue to the undercamber=2C when shrunk=2C it onl
y has about 1/2" in the middle of the rib off of the bottom capstrip. The
stitches pulled it down nicely)
I plan to bring the tail surfaces and ailerons home and cover them over the
winter. Next spring I'll have to cover the fuselage and do all of the pai
nting. I also still have to build all of the cowling=2C which are cardboar
d patterns now. I really hope and plan to make Brodhead.
Hope everyone has a GREAT Christmas!!
Gene Rambo
Subject: Pietenpol-List: The Rambo Piet
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
Date: Fri=2C 24 Dec 2010 09:36:39 -0500
Really nice work Gene. Please report your status on the covering. Love thos
e instruments. Are you on track for Brodhead?
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove=2C IL.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Doug Dever <chiefpepperhead(at)hotmail.com> |
A lot of the drag on the piet comes from the cables. A round 1/8in cable has more
drag than a 1.25 x 3in streamlined strut. I think drag reduction on a piet
is futile as long as you have all those cables.
Doug Dever
In beautiful Stow Ohio
Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2010 19:41:54 -0700
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aircraft drag
From: bickers.ken(at)gmail.com
All,
I found this video fascinating, too, as I've been thinking about whether and how
much to try to streamline various parts of the airplane. But Gary is probably
right. It probably doesn't pay to get carried away with drag reduction. From
one of my sources on aerodynamics, the formula for parasitic drag is as follows:
drag force = V2 coefficient of drag area
Since, for a given airframe (coefficient of drag and area) and air density (the
term), the only variable that varies is velocity (V). And that one varies alot
in its impact. Reducing the velocity from 210 to 70 (i.e. a reduction to
1/3 the prior speed), will reduce the drag by a ratio of 9 to 1.
So the key is to not try to fly your Pietenpol at 210 mph. Flying at 70 means
that you can reduce your efforts at drag reduction to a ninth of what you'd otherwise
have to spend time and money attempting.
Cheers, Ken
On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 7:08 PM, Charles Campbell wrote:
OK! OK! I give. Two struts it is with cross wires -- just like the plans say to
do it!
----- Original Message -----
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2010 7:21 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aircraft drag
Charles,
You can build it any way you like...........but if you use those "V" struts, you
will be forbidden from calling it a Pietenpol. Also, keep in mind, if you show
up at Brodhead, you will be
banished to the far side of the airport, where the spam cans park.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
-----Original Message-----
From: Charles Campbell <cncampbell(at)windstream.net>
Sent: Thu, Dec 23, 2010 12:38 pm
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aircraft drag
>
I wonder if anyone has ever considered using a V-type construction on the
wing struts and doing away with the X-bracing of the wires. I am purchasing
a set of Taylorcraft wing struts from a friend of mine who had to replace
his because of some AD. He has punched the old struts and found that they
are fine. I don't see why with the proper attachment to the fuselage that V
struts wouldn't work on a Piet. Anyone who knows different, let me know.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Ruse" <steve(at)wotelectronics.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2010 11:55 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aircraft drag
>
>
> That video is absolutely fascinating. I've always heard that a round
> wire or rod has a massive drag force, but I've never seen it quantified
> like that. The small wire/large airfoil comparison is really
> enlightening. Thanks for sharing that Brian.
>
> No wonder Vne seems to be a practical limit for my plane, rather than an
> operational limit. :) I have approached Vne only a few times, in
> incredibly smooth air. I thought the entire world was falling apart. I
> am sure that Chuck Yeager himself had no greater sensation of speed when
> breaking the sound barrier for the first time than I do when approaching
> Vne in my plane. The noise and stress you feel on the airframe is an eye
> opener.
>
> Steve Ruse
> Norman, OK
>
> Quoting brian.e.jardine@l-3com.com:
>
>>
>> Interesting to watch........ a little old school but the info about drag
>> is still relevant.
>>
>>
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftq8jTQ8ANE
>>
>> Brian
>> SLC-UT
>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
Sorry to hear about your Dad's stroke, Gene, but glad to hear he'll be OK.
Have a Merry Christmas!
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Raleigh. NC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Pieti Lowell" <Lowellcfrank(at)yahoo.com> |
Another Ford upside- down, How does he do it ? and beautiful.
Pieti Lowell
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324452#324452
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/piet_beauty_shot_414.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: engine vs cruise speeds (was corvair) |
| From: | "Jerry Dotson" <jdotson(at)centurylink.net> |
Chuck go to openoffice.org Will do what you need to do. It will massage all
MS Office files and it is FREE!
--------
Jerry Dotson
59 Daniel Johnson Rd
Baker, FL 32531
Started building NX510JD July, 2009
wing, tailfeathers done
using Lycoming O-235
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324454#324454
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kip and Beth Gardner <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: The Rambo Piet |
Seems to be missing a big chunk of weight up front Gene.
Seriously, beautiful work.
Merry Christmas!
Kip Gardner
On Dec 25, 2010, at 9:28 AM, Gene Rambo wrote:
> Attached are a few of the photos Jack Phillips took. I hope they
> are not too large to load.
>
> Gene Rambo
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Sweeney's Radiator |
| From: | "Pieti Lowell" <Lowellcfrank(at)yahoo.com> |
An excellent mount with side vents.
Mine ran inside of the engine mount and works will.
Prop is a Sensenich 76 X 50 will cruse at 85 MPH @ 1950 RPM.
Pieti Lowell
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324456#324456
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1060162_copy_eng_and_radiator_485.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Sweeney's Radiator |
Lowell,
Very kewl! Sorry to be demanding, but are there any other photos of
this plane? Were there any problems with keeping the coolant flowing?
What type of pump did you use?
Jeff
>
>An excellent mount with side vents.
>Mine ran inside of the engine mount and works will.
>Prop is a Sensenich 76 X 50 will cruse at 85 MPH @ 1950 RPM.
>Pieti Lowell
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324456#324456
>
>
>Attachments:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1060162_copy_eng_and_radiator_485.jpg
>
--
Jeff Boatright
"Now let's think about this..."
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Sweeney's Radiator |
| From: | "Pieti Lowell" <Lowellcfrank(at)yahoo.com> |
The engine is the Akron Motor Works Model "E", Ford B block inverted,Used in the
Funk airplane.
The water pump is a 2 blade impeller 4" turning at 2X engine speed.A very high
volume pump. The testing is not complete as flights have not been done for final
data. Don Sweeney is still looking for a down draft carb which has a large
ducting to the manifold that came with the engine.
This is the same type engine I had in my 1998 Piet that I flew to Oshkosh.
There were no problems in coolant flow. As of this date.
Pieti Lowell
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324467#324467
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/9_09_09_piet_1st_run_50_copy_486.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | vibration testing |
Merry Christmas, Piet pilots and builders! Hope everyone
got something Piet-related for Christmas this year ;o)
We have been running some vibration testing on the A75. I
have the cowlings off the engine to take care of a number
of little things so I took advantage of the opportunity and
installed the DynaVibe instrumentation in order to check
the tach calibration and vibration levels. As expected, the
tach is reading high... 100 RPM high at 1000 RPM and 200 RPM high
at full power. Good to know. The vibration reading showed
0.51" IPS at 2350 RPM with the heavy spot at 336 degrees, so
yesterday we pulled the two bolts that are across the hub from
the heavy spot and inserted the next size longer AN6s, along
with a stack of 4 washers under the heads of them, and ran
them back down. Warmed up the engine and ran it up, and find
that the vibration has reduced to 0.26" and the heavy spot has
shifted radially counterclockwise just a bit. Now we'll
fabricate a sort of steel 'flyweight' to go under the heads
of the two bolts across from the heavy area, make it just a
bit heavier than the washers and longer bolts that were
added, return to the standard bolts with the 'flyweight'
installed under the bolt heads with a standard .063" thickness
as AN washers, and run the test again. The goal is to get the
vibration level to no more than 0.1" IPS. I'm very curious to
know how detectible the reduction in vibration will be in
flight. Hope to find out before we leave on our dive trip to
Bonaire on New Year's Eve.
The engine runs very strong. Also installing intercylinder
baffles, which were not installed during the rebuild and
which may not be necessary but I think they are.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
San Antonio, TX
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Sweeney's Radiator |
| From: | gboothe5(at)comcast.net |
Pieti,
Tell us exactly what carb Don is looking for...maybe someone on the list can help
find one.
Gary Boothe
------Original Message------
From: Pieti Lowell
Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
ReplyTo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Sweeney's Radiator
Sent: Dec 25, 2010 9:47 AM
The engine is the Akron Motor Works Model "E", Ford B block inverted,Used in the
Funk airplane.
The water pump is a 2 blade impeller 4" turning at 2X engine speed.A very high
volume pump. The testing is not complete as flights have not been done for final
data. Don Sweeney is still looking for a down draft carb which has a large
ducting to the manifold that came with the engine.
This is the same type engine I had in my 1998 Piet that I flew to Oshkosh.
There were no problems in coolant flow. As of this date.
Pieti Lowell
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324467#324467
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/9_09_09_piet_1st_run_50_copy_486.jpg
Sent on the Sprint Now Network from my BlackBerry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> |
| Subject: | Re: engine vs cruise speeds (was corvair) |
OK. Thanks. I'll try that.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jerry Dotson" <jdotson(at)centurylink.net>
Sent: Saturday, December 25, 2010 11:07 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: engine vs cruise speeds (was corvair)
>
>
> Chuck go to openoffice.org Will do what you need to do. It will
> massage all MS Office files and it is FREE!
>
> --------
> Jerry Dotson
> 59 Daniel Johnson Rd
> Baker, FL 32531
>
> Started building NX510JD July, 2009
> wing, tailfeathers done
> using Lycoming O-235
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324454#324454
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> |
| Subject: | Re: engine vs cruise speeds (was corvair) |
Jerry, I downloaded openoffice.org but when I try to open the xl document I
still get a block that tells me to "create an association in the Folder
Options control panel." Do you know what that means? I am pretty much
computer illiterate.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jerry Dotson" <jdotson(at)centurylink.net>
Sent: Saturday, December 25, 2010 11:07 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: engine vs cruise speeds (was corvair)
>
>
> Chuck go to openoffice.org Will do what you need to do. It will
> massage all MS Office files and it is FREE!
>
> --------
> Jerry Dotson
> 59 Daniel Johnson Rd
> Baker, FL 32531
>
> Started building NX510JD July, 2009
> wing, tailfeathers done
> using Lycoming O-235
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324454#324454
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Engelkenjohn" <mushface1(at)gmail.com> |
while welding some 4130 yesterday, I somehow air hardened it. At one
time I worked in a machine shop where they annealed metal and carbide
after heating it in induction heaters by shoving the parts into some
type of powder to insulate it until it cooled slowly. For the life of me
I can't remember what it was.
Does anyone know what it could have been? Lime possibly?
All my welding books say is to leave it in the furnace and lower the
temperature 50 degrees per hour. I don't have a furnace, just a torch.
Any help is appreciated.
Dennis
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Sweeney's Radiator |
| From: | "Pieti Lowell" <Lowellcfrank(at)yahoo.com> |
Don needs a Zenith downdraft with a 1-5/8 outlet. The exact number is forth-coming
from Don.
I am trying to get him on the List so he can experience first hand information
and all yous- guys wisdom.
Pieti Lowell
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324509#324509
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1080663_compare_intake_size_158.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: vibration testing |
| From: | "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
Kevin;
If you've followed the DynaVibe thread on the Corvair list, you'll know that Mark
Langford's silky-smooth Corvair is now running at ZERO inches per second reading
on the instrument. If you think that I am too smart for my own good, go
knock on Mark's door instead... HE is the consummate engine tuner and blueprinter!
Mark flies behind a sewing machine, it's that smooth ;o).
Today's engine run was a bit of a disappointment. What we have confirmed is that
the engine is running lean with the slightly larger bore venturi that I installed,
so tomorrow we'll pull the carb open again and reinstall the standard
1-1/4" venturi that the specs call for. It's always fun trying to disassemble
as little as possible of a Stromberg since all the fasteners are safetied and
very few of them are easy to get to with the carb and air box installed on the
airplane. I wish I had the slim, nimble fingers of a 10-year-old girl when
I'm trying to get the nuts, washers, and safety wire all in the right places on
this thing... although putting the brass nuts on the exhaust studs runs a close
second to the Stromberg for "tight quarters" work on these engines.
In off-topic news, inbetween working on the Piet engine and replacing clevis pins
on the tail feather hinges with slightly shorter (and more correct) ones, we
have begun reinforcing the bottom and chines of a Bolger Tortoise with glass
cloth and polyester resin. Talk about a nifty little dinghy... my son and grandsons
will soon be playing with this little boat in the pond out at the ranch,
catching largemouth bass from it and retrieving downed ducks from the water.
This time of year, Texas is graced with hundreds of thousands of migrating
ducks and geese and it's a lot of fun to jump-shoot ducks from the small stock
ponds that are on the ranches in the area. The Tortoise is a nice little craft
and perfect for the job. Oh, and then there's the conversion of a gas weed
trimmer to a little outboard motor for the Tortoise ;o) Never a dull moment
around here!
--------
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
Air Camper NX41CC
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324508#324508
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Flying Xmas Gifts from the Goddess & Others |
| From: | "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
My wife Jay got me a set of ratcheting combination wrenches. Really sweet... the
open end is still an open end, but the box end ratchets. I had told her how
cool those wrenches are but they have never been less than about $60 at Sears...
until last week, when they were 50% off for the set. Other than her confusion
about "metric vs. SAE", she knew I was very pleased at her fine choice of
gifts for me!
--------
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
Air Camper NX41CC
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324510#324510
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Flying Xmas Gifts from the Goddess & Others |
| From: | Gary Wilson <gtche98(at)gmail.com> |
6" belt/9" disc sanding station from my goddess. Getting closer to my first order
of capstrip.
Sent from my iPhone
On Dec 25, 2010, at 5:54 PM, "taildrags" wrote:
>
> My wife Jay got me a set of ratcheting combination wrenches. Really sweet...
the open end is still an open end, but the box end ratchets. I had told her
how cool those wrenches are but they have never been less than about $60 at Sears...
until last week, when they were 50% off for the set. Other than her confusion
about "metric vs. SAE", she knew I was very pleased at her fine choice
of gifts for me!
>
> --------
> Oscar Zuniga
> San Antonio, TX
> Air Camper NX41CC
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324510#324510
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "skellytown flyer" <skellflyer1(at)yahoo.com> |
one product for that is called vermiculite. i's a pellet form of insulation. I
have a bucket of it out in the shop now.Raymond
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324546#324546
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
Couple of young Jedi's showed up last Thursday morning. I thought about
putting them to work raking leaves and putting up X-mas lights, but they
really wanted to look at the Piet. One has been taking welding in high
school, so I put him to work making some adjustments to my carb flange. The
other didn't know an open-end wrench from a box wrench, so I taught him a
few things about sheet metal. In the pic, he is finishing up the access
panels for my fuel tank. Both did an outstanding job, without any needed
re-work from me! We finished up the day by making one of the fuel lines.
Got everything I need to seal and rivet the tank this week.Life is good!
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, Running!
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(23 ribs down.)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kip and Beth Gardner <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net> |
Great story Gary,
Aside from my own strange obsessions (like aviation, that is), one of
my joys is helping lead a high school youth group. Great kids, one
and all, several in spite of family or circumstance situations that
could easily lead to poor choices & outcomes.
Once again, Merry Christmas everyone.
Kip Gardner
On Dec 26, 2010, at 12:36 PM, Gary Boothe wrote:
> Couple of young Jedi=92s showed up last Thursday morning. I thought
> about putting them to work raking leaves and putting up X-mas
> lights, but they really wanted to look at the Piet. One has been
> taking welding in high school, so I put him to work making some
> adjustments to my carb flange. The other didn=92t know an open-end
> wrench from a box wrench, so I taught him a few things about sheet
> metal. In the pic, he is finishing up the access panels for my fuel
> tank. Both did an outstanding job, without any needed re-work from
> me! We finished up the day by making one of the fuel lines.
>
> Got everything I need to seal and rivet the tank this week=85Life is
> good!
>
> Gary Boothe
> Cool, Ca.
> Pietenpol
> WW Corvair Conversion, Running!
> Tail done, Fuselage on gear
> (23 ribs down=85)
>
>
> <000_2003.jpg>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Darrel Jones <wd6bor(at)vom.com> |
On 12/26/2010 9:36 AM, Gary Boothe wrote:
>
> Couple of young Jedi's showed up last Thursday morning. I thought
> about putting them to work raking leaves and putting up X-mas lights,
> but they really wanted to look at the Piet. One has been taking
> welding in high school, so I put him to work making some adjustments
> to my carb flange. The other didn't know an open-end wrench from a box
> wrench, so I taught him a few things about sheet metal. In the pic, he
> is finishing up the access panels for my fuel tank. Both did an
> outstanding job, without any needed re-work from me! We finished up
> the day by making one of the fuel lines.
>
> Got everything I need to seal and rivet the tank this week...Life is good!
>
> Gary Boothe
> Cool, Ca.
> Pietenpol
> WW Corvair Conversion, Running!
> Tail done, Fuselage on gear
> (23 ribs down...)
>
Gary,
We may have to run up to Cool to check out the progress before or after
lunch Wednesday.
Looking forward to seeing everyone.
Darrel Jones
Sonoma, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Sweeney's Radiator |
| From: | "Pieti Lowell" <Lowellcfrank(at)yahoo.com> |
Don needs a Zenith IN 180 Series Carb.
Pieti Lowell
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324575#324575
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Fay <jfay1950(at)gmail.com> |
Matt,
Couldn't help noticing. Bigfoot airport is where I learned to fly.
Walworth is my hometown
(In case you are all wondering, it is located on the Bigfoot prairie, named
for the Pottowatomie chief of that area when the first settlers came in
1837.)
John Fay
in Peoria
On Fri, Dec 17, 2010 at 9:30 AM, wrote:
> Dan, I expect NX629ML will make it's first trip to Brodhead in 2011.
> Looks like it'll be spring before the first flight though, with winter
> clamping down early like it has. I usually make a stop at Big Foot for a day
> or two before Oshkosh but will probably go direct to Brodhead next year. I
> think Jack Phillips is thinking about flying up with me, and another friend
> who recently finished a Chinook project.
>
> Matt Paxton
>
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | One wing ready for paint |
| From: | "Dangerous Dave" <dsornbor(at)aol.com> |
Howdy,I have one wing ready to paint and should have both wings done by sunday
evening.Stewart Systems still A+.Dave
--------
Covering Piet
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324599#324599
Attachments:
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http://forums.matronics.com//files/2010_12_26_16_10_14_702_201.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | vibration testing |
I concluded vibration testing on my A75 today, with good results.
Recall that before balancing, the Dynavibe was showing 0.51 IPS
imbalance at 2150 RPM, which was maximum static at the condition on
Dec. 18. We ran some other tests using a different carb venturi
and adjusted the engine thrust line, but those had nothing to do
with the vibration work. An interim test run using longer AN6 prop
bolts with four stacked washers under the heads resulted in a reduction
of vibration to 0.27 IPS at 2150 RPM, with just a slight radial
change in location of the heavy side of the prop. We were on the
right track.
Today we added a small 'flyweight' clamped between the two prop bolts
across from the side of the prop that the Dynavibe had identified
as heavy. It was purposely made a bit heavier than we think will
be the final shape of it, allowing for rounding of the edges and
then applying paint (it's 4130 steel). Warmed up the engine and
ran the Dynavibe averaging again, and achieved 0.07 IPS and now
the heavy side has shifted radially on the hub, indicating that
we would be chasing small changes from here on, with very limited
ways of offsetting the heaviness. So, we called it more than
just good (Dynavibe says to shoot for no more than 0.1 IPS).
Cowlings back on, engine warmed up, and a test flight in "Scout" was
just deee-lightful!!! What a joy, not only in the buttery smoothness
of the engine, but leveling out at cruise, the change in engine
thrustline offset was very rewarding. Hands off, feet off, half
tank of fuel, and the yaw is almost gone... a half-ball of left turning,
which a very light touch on the right rudder would stop instantly. I
never thought this would be a hands-off airplane, but it's getting very
close! We'll reinstall the bent-metal trim tab on the rudder and
I'll bet the next flight will show NO yawing tendency with feet off
the rudders. This airplane is getting sweeter with every tweak we give
it. Of course, it was clear and COLD here today (mid-40s) so Scout
climbed wonderfully, but still- the improvements are noticeable and
useful.
This is why we call it 'EXPERIMENTAL', and why we love doing it ;o)
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
San Antonio, TX
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: vibration testing |
| From: | "Ryan Mueller" <rmueller23(at)gmail.com> |
Outstanding Oscar. I hope this
experience makes it its way to Doc in the form of an article for the BPA newsletter.
Your contributions have always been good reading, and I look forward to
this being in print! Merry Christmas!
Ryan Mueller
-----Original Message-----
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Date: Sun, 26 Dec 2010 20:02:43
I concluded vibration testing on my A75 today, with good results.
Recall that before balancing, the Dynavibe was showing 0.51 IPS
imbalance at 2150 RPM, which was maximum static at the condition on
Dec. 18. We ran some other tests using a different carb venturi
and adjusted the engine thrust line, but those had nothing to do
with the vibration work. An interim test run using longer AN6 prop
bolts with four stacked washers under the heads resulted in a reduction
of vibration to 0.27 IPS at 2150 RPM, with just a slight radial
change in location of the heavy side of the prop. We were on the
right track.
Today we added a small 'flyweight' clamped between the two prop bolts
across from the side of the prop that the Dynavibe had identified
as heavy. It was purposely made a bit heavier than we think will
be the final shape of it, allowing for rounding of the edges and
then applying paint (it's 4130 steel). Warmed up the engine and
ran the Dynavibe averaging again, and achieved 0.07 IPS and now
the heavy side has shifted radially on the hub, indicating that
we would be chasing small changes from here on, with very limited
ways of offsetting the heaviness. So, we called it more than
just good (Dynavibe says to shoot for no more than 0.1 IPS).
Cowlings back on, engine warmed up, and a test flight in "Scout" was
just deee-lightful!!! What a joy, not only in the buttery smoothness
of the engine, but leveling out at cruise, the change in engine
thrustline offset was very rewarding. Hands off, feet off, half
tank of fuel, and the yaw is almost gone... a half-ball of left turning,
which a very light touch on the right rudder would stop instantly. I
never thought this would be a hands-off airplane, but it's getting very
close! We'll reinstall the bent-metal trim tab on the rudder and
I'll bet the next flight will show NO yawing tendency with feet off
the rudders. This airplane is getting sweeter with every tweak we give
it. Of course, it was clear and COLD here today (mid-40s) so Scout
climbed wonderfully, but still- the improvements are noticeable and
useful.
This is why we call it 'EXPERIMENTAL', and why we love doing it ;o)
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
San Antonio, TX
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: One wing ready for paint |
| From: | Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
Beautiful Dave, your the fastest rib lacer in the West.
rick
On Sun, Dec 26, 2010 at 5:18 PM, Dangerous Dave wrote:
>
> Howdy,I have one wing ready to paint and should have both wings done by
> sunday evening.Stewart Systems still A+.Dave
>
> --------
> Covering Piet
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324599#324599
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/2010_12_26_16_08_30_336_162.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/2010_12_26_16_10_14_702_201.jpg
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Bigfoot airport |
| From: | "GliderMike" <glidermikeg(at)yahoo.com> |
Is Bigfoot grass, with 2 runways that form a "T," and one of the runways has terraces
in it? And pretty close to Beloit? If so, I made my 25th parachute jump
into there, I think it was in 1980. A group of us flew from Muskogee to there
in a DC3, and jumped in, then made quite a few jumps over a weekend. If I remember
correctly, they had 2 Twin Otters there for the weekend, in addition to
the DC3 we rode up there in, and maybe one more DC3 there. The DC3 lost an engine
on the way home, and we landed in Burlington, IA. My room mate talked the
people there into renting a Twin Commander to us, and some of us got home in
a timely manner, instead of waiting for the DC3 to get some new cylinders.
It was quite a time. I know the airport wasn't regularly used for skydiving at
the time, just for this special event. I don't remember there being any hangars
there, but I may not be remembering correctly. I do remember the fences adjacent
to the runway were cornstalks, about 7 ft high.
--------
HOMEBUILDER
Will WORK for Spruce
Long flights, smooth air, and soft landings,
GliderMike, aka Mike Glasgow
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324638#324638
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> |
I'm not quite ready to have to know but I am at the point where I'm
thinking about how tight the cable tensions need to be and how do you
know when they are correct without having access to a tensionometer?
Chuck (Charles, in the list)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Cable Tension |
| From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
One of those interesting topics... some will recommend that you be able to play
"Banjo Duel" on the drag cables and "Devil Went Down to Georgia" on the controls.
Even with a tensiometer you will get recommendations from 20 to 120 pounds.
I'm not sure that there is an exact value given in black and white, even
in AC 43.13 or Tony's books, but I'm sure you'll get several educated responses.
Sorry I can't help on this topic, but I'll be reading the mail along with ya.
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324671#324671
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Cable Tension |
| From: | helspersew(at)aol.com |
OH NO, here we go again with the "twang" or "dwang" or was it musical note
G method and every other opinion under the sun on how tight the cables need
to be and how to tighten them.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
-----Original Message-----
From: Charles Campbell <cncampbell(at)windstream.net>
Sent: Mon, Dec 27, 2010 9:17 am
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Cable Tension
I'm not quite ready to have to know but I am at the point where I'm thinkin
g about how tight the cable tensions need to be and how do you know when th
ey are correct without having access to a tensionometer?
Chuck (Charles, in the list)
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Cable Tension |
Come on, guys! I'm sure this has been a thread on here before but I
don't have access to what piet builders (who have a finished product)
have done. Dan, what did you do? Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, December 27, 2010 12:42 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Cable Tension
OH NO, here we go again with the "twang" or "dwang" or was it musical
note G method and every other opinion under the sun on how tight the
cables need to be and how to tighten them.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
-----Original Message-----
From: Charles Campbell <cncampbell(at)windstream.net>
To: pietenpol-list
Sent: Mon, Dec 27, 2010 9:17 am
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Cable Tension
I'm not quite ready to have to know but I am at the point where I'm
thinking about how tight the cable tensions need to be and how do you
know when they are correct without having access to a tensionometer?
Chuck (Charles, in the list)
_blank>www.aeroelectric.com
/" target=_blank>www.buildersbooks.com
=_blank>www.homebuilthelp.com
blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
p://forums.matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Cable Tension |
| From: | Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com> |
http://www.matronics.com/search/
<http://www.matronics.com/search/>Piet list archives going back at least
11-12 years....read the instructions on how to properly format a search. I'd
recommend spending some time searching there....
Ryan
On Mon, Dec 27, 2010 at 12:24 PM, Charles Campbell <
cncampbell(at)windstream.net> wrote:
> Come on, guys! I'm sure this has been a thread on here before but I
> don't have access to what piet builders (who have a finished product) have
> done. Dan, what did you do? Chuck
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* helspersew(at)aol.com
> *To:* pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> *Sent:* Monday, December 27, 2010 12:42 PM
> *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: Cable Tension
>
> OH NO, here we go again with the "twang" or "dwang" or was it musical note
> G method and every other opinion under the sun on how tight the cables need
> to be and how to tighten them.
>
> Dan Helsper
> Poplar Grove, IL.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Charles Campbell <cncampbell(at)windstream.net>
> To: pietenpol-list
> Sent: Mon, Dec 27, 2010 9:17 am
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Cable Tension
>
> I'm not quite ready to *have* to know but I am at the point where I'm
> thinking about how tight the cable tensions need to be and how do you know
> when they are correct without having access to a tensionometer?
>
> Chuck (Charles, in the list)
>
> *
>
> _blank>www.aeroelectric.com
> /" target=_blank>www.buildersbooks.com
> =_blank>www.homebuilthelp.com
> blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> " target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> p://forums.matronics.com*
>
> *
>
> href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
> href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
> href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com*
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KM Heide CPO/FAAOP <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com> |
Here is what I have stored in my personal Pietenpol folder:
West Marine carries the Loos "regular" cable tensiometer
for $79.99 and it's good for 3/32", 1/8", and 5/32" cables.
Pete Bowers in the plans for the fly baby says to tighten the cables as
tight as you can with your fingers, then give the turnbuckle barrel one
more turn. When I did this on my wings, I got a FWANG sound. My Tech
Counselor said to tighten to no more than 40#. When I checked it with a
tensionometer, thats what I had.
Rick S.
You can buy cable tensiometers, but they are expensive and unnecessary.
Just tighten the cables until all four are a little more than snug and they
all make approximately the same sound when plucked. You don't want them
terribly tight - they don't need to go "Peeeng" when plucked. Just a nice
low "Thmmmm", but they should all make about the same sound.
These cables actually control the alignment of the wing to the centerline of
the airplane. To set the initial tension, pick either the forward pair (at
the fuselage) or the rear pair and tighten them to a little more than snug.
Then use a metal tape measure and measure the distance from the tailpost to
each wingtip. Each distance should be the same, within +/- 1/4". If the
distances are off, adjust the tension in the flying wires until the wing is
square with the fuselage. Then tighten the other pair and re-measure the
tailpost to wingtip distance, both sides. Adjust tensions as necessary.
Washout is set differently. It is controlled by the length of the rear lift
struts and depending on your strut design may or may not be easily
adjustable. I have a small bit of washout in mine and the stall
characteristics are good. As far as I know I have not flown a Pietenpol
without washout (Ryan, does yours have washout or not?) but I suspect it
would be fine without it.
Good luck!
Jack Phillips
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Sweeney's Radiator |
| From: | "skellytown flyer" <skellflyer1(at)yahoo.com> |
I know very little about Zenith down draft carbs, but what about your typical VW
carb? I believe they are some version of Zenith downdraft. I even have one in
my garage in some junk. I have no idea of capacity but they are common.and if
needed I could sure ship it. Raymond
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324705#324705
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Cable tension |
Jack, you're a prince. Thank you. That is exactly what I will try to do.
Incidentally, I was a Technical Writer (Electronics) for about 30 years and
I perceive that you would have made a good one. Thanks again.
----- Original Message -----
From: "KM Heide CPO/FAAOP" <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Monday, December 27, 2010 2:03 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Cable tension
>
>
> Here is what I have stored in my personal Pietenpol folder:
>
> West Marine carries the Loos "regular" cable tensiometer
> for $79.99 and it's good for 3/32", 1/8", and 5/32" cables.
>
> Pete Bowers in the plans for the fly baby says to tighten the cables as
> tight as you can with your fingers, then give the turnbuckle barrel one
> more turn. When I did this on my wings, I got a FWANG sound. My Tech
> Counselor said to tighten to no more than 40#. When I checked it with a
> tensionometer, thats what I had.
>
> Rick S.
>
> You can buy cable tensiometers, but they are expensive and unnecessary.
> Just tighten the cables until all four are a little more than snug and
> they
> all make approximately the same sound when plucked. You don't want them
> terribly tight - they don't need to go "Peeeng" when plucked. Just a nice
> low "Thmmmm", but they should all make about the same sound.
>
> These cables actually control the alignment of the wing to the centerline
> of
> the airplane. To set the initial tension, pick either the forward pair
> (at
> the fuselage) or the rear pair and tighten them to a little more than
> snug.
> Then use a metal tape measure and measure the distance from the tailpost
> to
> each wingtip. Each distance should be the same, within +/- 1/4". If the
> distances are off, adjust the tension in the flying wires until the wing
> is
> square with the fuselage. Then tighten the other pair and re-measure the
> tailpost to wingtip distance, both sides. Adjust tensions as necessary.
>
> Washout is set differently. It is controlled by the length of the rear
> lift
> struts and depending on your strut design may or may not be easily
> adjustable. I have a small bit of washout in mine and the stall
> characteristics are good. As far as I know I have not flown a Pietenpol
> without washout (Ryan, does yours have washout or not?) but I suspect it
> would be fine without it.
>
> Good luck!
>
> Jack Phillips
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Cable Tension |
| From: | "kevinpurtee" <kevin.purtee(at)us.army.mil> |
"Sounds About Right"
--------
Kevin "Axel" Purtee
NX899KP
Austin/Georgetown, TX
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324728#324728
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "VanDy" <matthew.vandervort(at)gmail.com> |
quick background... ive had my A for 10 years now, and my P for 9, but just
now starting to get into the GA field indepth, and I just learned from Grandpa
that the MA-2 on my Piet, (that grandpa BIG JIM VANDERVORT built) is pretty
much obsolete, so.. any body have any info on where to find parts for it? the
Carb on it was good when it ran last, but that was 9 years ago, and i'd like to
keep it as close to how he built it as possible!
im also doing the same with my 1978 Suzuki Motorcycle, buying spare parts, that
I can find, in muliples of 3!
thanks for the input!
--------
www.vansavition.com follow my Piet rebuild there!
almost dissasembled, getting ready to order all AN hardware and SS cable
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324741#324741
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Cable Tension |
| From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
EAA Sport Aviation, Jan 2011 - Pg. 92 "Control Cable Tension"
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324751#324751
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "bender" <jfaith(at)solairusaviation.com> |
i feel like this shouldn't be so hard.... i started trying to build the gear legs...
wow..it sucks
it looks so simple in the drawings..
i think carving a prop would be easier
stopping for the night but not giving up
jeff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324758#324758
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com> |
You need to read:
http://www.westcoastpiet.com/wood_landing_gear.htm
<http://www.westcoastpiet.com/wood_landing_gear.htm>Ryan
On Mon, Dec 27, 2010 at 10:39 PM, bender wrote:
> jfaith(at)solairusaviation.com>
>
> i feel like this shouldn't be so hard.... i started trying to build the
> gear legs... wow..it sucks
> it looks so simple in the drawings..
> i think carving a prop would be easier
> stopping for the night but not giving up
>
> jeff
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324758#324758
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Clif Dawson" <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> |
For what it's worth, this is what I did.
The initial fitting was with scrap wood.
Once the ends fit the fuselage and the
block at the V then the angles were
transfered to the Fir.
And yes, even with a carefully designed and
constructed jig it was still akin to a female
dog.
http://www.clifdawson.ca/Homepage4-10-06/Pietenpol3.html
Clif
Pietenpol-List message posted by: "bender" > i feel like this shouldn't be
so hard.... i started trying to build the gear legs... wow..it sucks
> it looks so simple in the drawings..
> jeff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Clif Dawson" <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Cable Tension |
That's a good point. Let's get somebody to go measure
his existing planes. :-)
Clf
What would Bernard do, Dan? :)
Ryan
OH NO, here we go again with the "twang" or "dwang" or was it
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris" <catdesigns(at)att.net> |
What specifically are you having problems with? Those of us who have done it
can probably help figure out your problem.
Biggest thing to do is make sure the ash block is pointing at the tail
wheel. Take a string and make sure the top surface of the block is parallel
to a line drawn to the tail wheel. Then cut the legs to fill the space
between the ash block and the fuselage. As someone already suggested, take
a look at what I have about building the wood gear on my web page and ask
more question if you need it.
Chris
Sacramento, Ca
Westcoastpiet.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of bender
Sent: Monday, December 27, 2010 8:39 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: wood legs
-->
i feel like this shouldn't be so hard.... i started trying to build the gear
legs... wow..it sucks it looks so simple in the drawings..
i think carving a prop would be easier
stopping for the night but not giving up
jeff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324758#324758
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | helspersew(at)aol.com |
Charles,
Didn't mean to jump on you. We here on the Pietenpol list subscribe to the
notion that there are no stupid questions. I would have appreciated this th
read myself if I had been in your position. In response to your original qu
ery, the compilation of what we have so far is:
"FWANG"
"Peeeng"
"Thmmmm",
SAR method
I myself used "thwang" and it has performed beautifully so far. I would rea
lly like to be able to reveal what method Bernerd used, so we all could get
the last word on this subject, but seeing that I am bound not to open the
"Lost Papers of BHP" canister for another 5 months (once per year), I canno
t. Now keep in mind that this information may not even be in those papers.
Even the Bible is silent on some mundane subjects, such as let's say, how
often to get a haircut.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
"Thmmmm",
SAR method
I myself used "thwang" and it has performed beautifully so far. I would rea
lly like to be able to reveal what method Bernerd used, so we all could get
the last word on this subject, but seeing that I am bound not to open the
"Lost Papers of BHP" canister for another 5 months (once per year), I canno
t. Now keep in mind that this information may not even be in those papers.
Even the Bible is silent on some mundane subjects, such as let's say, how
often to get a haircut.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jerry Dotson" <jdotson(at)centurylink.net> |
The gear on NX510JD is laminated from red oak, poplar,pecan, ash, and fir. 10---1/4
inch layers. All the struts are laminated with 9---1/4 layers with a 3/8
4130 steel rod sandwiched inside.
--------
Jerry Dotson
59 Daniel Johnson Rd
Baker, FL 32531
Started building NX510JD July, 2009
wing, tailfeathers done
using Lycoming O-235
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324781#324781
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/gear_8x6_189.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/cabanes_101.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "bender" <jfaith(at)solairusaviation.com> |
i guess what got to me last night was that the flying and glider dimensions were
not working out.. the ash block was too short when the Long cut for the rear
leg was made...the ash block needs to be longer i believe. i managed to make
the cuts pretty easy.. by drawing lines around each leg and eyeballing on the
band saw.. then i realize the outside bottom brackets i made were off... i literally
blew up the images on a copy machine till the measurements were right ..but
i missed the fact that the bottom was about 7 inches long instead of the
5 3/4 shown on the drawings even though the other dimensions were correct. i kept
wondering how that was going to work with the inside brackets.. i thought
i was being clever too
so its jigged up and three legs may be good.. i just need to make new brackets
and lengthen the ash block i believe
and the west coast piet site does get lots of studying..thanks
jeff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324784#324784
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kip and Beth Gardner <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net> |
Hi Jerry,
What's the lamination orientation on your struts? 9 1/4 in. laminates
seems like a lot. Also, does the 3/8 inch rod carry all the way
through & attach to anything, or lust there for reinforcement? I'm
planning on wood struts with carbon fiber between the laminations.
KIp Gardner
On Dec 28, 2010, at 8:19 AM, Jerry Dotson wrote:
> >
>
> The gear on NX510JD is laminated from red oak, poplar,pecan, ash,
> and fir. 10---1/4 inch layers. All the struts are laminated with
> 9---1/4 layers with a 3/8 4130 steel rod sandwiched inside.
>
> --------
> Jerry Dotson
> 59 Daniel Johnson Rd
> Baker, FL 32531
>
> Started building NX510JD July, 2009
> wing, tailfeathers done
> using Lycoming O-235
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324781#324781
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/gear_8x6_189.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/cabanes_101.jpg
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Cable Tension |
I don't have my Jan 2011 issue. Guess I need to call EAA.
----- Original Message -----
From: "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net>
Sent: Monday, December 27, 2010 10:48 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cable Tension
>
> EAA Sport Aviation, Jan 2011 - Pg. 92 "Control Cable Tension"
>
> --------
> Mark Chouinard
> Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
>
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324751#324751
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Cable tension |
I get a haircut once every six months whether I need it or not!!!! But
you're right -- the Bible doesn't cover the subject. No mention of
haircuts except the one Samson received, and it didn't suggest how often
this should happen
Jack Phillips says "Thummm" is the correct one. I believe that would be
a bit less tension than "FWang" and certainly less than "Peeeng". I'm
sure that would be way too tight.
----- Original Message -----
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2010 7:29 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Cable tension
Charles,
Didn't mean to jump on you. We here on the Pietenpol list subscribe to
the notion that there are no stupid questions. I would have appreciated
this thread myself if I had been in your position. In response to your
original query, the compilation of what we have so far is:
"FWANG"
"Peeeng"
"Thmmmm",
SAR method
I myself used "thwang" and it has performed beautifully so far. I
would really like to be able to reveal what method Bernerd used, so we
all could get the last word on this subject, but seeing that I am bound
not to open the "Lost Papers of BHP" canister for another 5 months (once
per year), I cannot. Now keep in mind that this information may not
even be in those papers. Even the Bible is silent on some mundane
subjects, such as let's say, how often to get a haircut.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jerry Dotson" <jdotson(at)centurylink.net> |
The 3/8 rod goes all the way through. I glued up the struts 5 layers and 4 layers.
The I milled a 3/8 half round groove from end to end. Then laminated the
2 pieces around the rod with T-88. The 5 layer part will be trailing edge.
--------
Jerry Dotson
59 Daniel Johnson Rd
Baker, FL 32531
Started building NX510JD July, 2009
wing, tailfeathers done
using Lycoming O-235
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324806#324806
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gboothe5" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
Beautiful, Jerry!
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jerry Dotson
Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2010 5:20 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: wood legs
The gear on NX510JD is laminated from red oak, poplar,pecan, ash, and fir.
10---1/4 inch layers. All the struts are laminated with 9---1/4 layers with
a 3/8 4130 steel rod sandwiched inside.
--------
Jerry Dotson
59 Daniel Johnson Rd
Baker, FL 32531
Started building NX510JD July, 2009
wing, tailfeathers done
using Lycoming O-235
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324781#324781
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/gear_8x6_189.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/cabanes_101.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Cable Tension |
| From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
Chuck Campbell wrote:
> I don't have my Jan 2011 issue. Guess I need to call EAA.
>
> ---
Just got mine yesterday... don't panic just yet.
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324822#324822
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Cable Tension |
| From: | Kenneth Bickers <bickers.ken(at)gmail.com> |
I just downloaded a copy, plus an interesting article on corvair
conversions, from the EAA website. If you are a member, you can log into
the EAA360 website. This will give access to all the upcoming articles, plus
a whole lot more. Cheers, Ken
On Tue, Dec 28, 2010 at 10:12 AM, K5YAC wrote:
>
>
> Chuck Campbell wrote:
> > I don't have my Jan 2011 issue. Guess I need to call EAA.
> >
> > ---
>
>
> Just got mine yesterday... don't panic just yet.
>
> --------
> Mark Chouinard
> Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324822#324822
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Cable Tension |
| From: | Kenneth Bickers <bickers.ken(at)gmail.com> |
... as an additional note, there is also a nice description (on page 90) of
a hole drilling jig for use in drilling holes through spars and other
critical pieces. When I read it, I wanted to slap my forehead. Cheap. Dirt
simple. Great idea.
On Tue, Dec 28, 2010 at 10:34 AM, Kenneth Bickers wrote:
> I just downloaded a copy, plus an interesting article on corvair
> conversions, from the EAA website. If you are a member, you can log into
> the EAA360 website. This will give access to all the upcoming articles, plus
> a whole lot more. Cheers, Ken
>
>
> On Tue, Dec 28, 2010 at 10:12 AM, K5YAC wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Chuck Campbell wrote:
>> > I don't have my Jan 2011 issue. Guess I need to call EAA.
>> >
>> > ---
>>
>>
>> Just got mine yesterday... don't panic just yet.
>>
>> --------
>> Mark Chouinard
>> Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324822#324822
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Cable Tension |
| From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
A what conversion? Corvair? Isn't that a car?
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324830#324830
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | airlion <airlion(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Cable Tension |
Yeah It's that old car but with wings on it now. Unsafe at stall speed. Gardiner
----- Original Message ----
From: K5YAC <hangar10(at)cox.net>
Sent: Tue, December 28, 2010 1:15:18 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cable Tension
A what conversion? Corvair? Isn't that a car?
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324830#324830
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KM Heide CPO/FAAOP <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com> |
Jerry,
Any photos?
--- On Tue, 12/28/10, Jerry Dotson wrote:
> From: Jerry Dotson <jdotson(at)centurylink.net>
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: wood legs
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Tuesday, December 28, 2010, 9:48 AM
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted
> by: "Jerry Dotson"
>
> The 3/8 rod goes all the way through. I glued up the struts
> 5 layers and 4 layers. The I milled a 3/8 half round
> groove from end to end. Then laminated the 2 pieces around
> the rod with T-88. The 5 layer part will be trailing edge.
>
> --------
> Jerry Dotson
> 59 Daniel Johnson Rd
> Baker, FL 32531
>
> Started building NX510JD July, 2009
> wing, tailfeathers done
> using Lycoming O-235
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324806#324806
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Lists This Month --
> Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!)
> Raiser. Click on
> out more about
> Gifts provided
> www.aeroelectric.com
> www.buildersbooks.com
> www.homebuilthelp.com
> -Matt
> Dralle, List Admin.
> Email Forum -
> FAQ,
> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jerry Dotson" <jdotson(at)centurylink.net> |
KM my airplane has yet to be assembled. Putting the finishing touches on the gear
now. Then I will assemble and finish the struts and brace cables. No covering
on anything yet.
--------
Jerry Dotson
59 Daniel Johnson Rd
Baker, FL 32531
Started building NX510JD July, 2009
wing, tailfeathers done
using Lycoming O-235
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324839#324839
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Piet List Directory |
Jack--
I don't know if I'm on the list either, and I don't use Excel. Is there a
PDF version available?
Thanks, Mac in Oregon
> Barry,
>
> It's not public, just available to those who submit info. Attached is the
> latest copy, thanks.
>
>
> _____
>
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Barry
> Davis
> Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2010 1:39 PM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Piet List Directory
>
>
> Jack
>
> Is this list on the web somewhere? I was wondering if all the Big Piet
> guys
> submitted their info
>
> Barry
>
>
> _____
>
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack
> Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2010 1:25 PM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet List Directory
>
> Jeff, I noticed you are not listed in our directory, if you (or anyone
> else)
> would like to submit your info please complete the attached Excel file and
> return to me. I will then send you the updated list which has 74
> listings.
> BTW nice progress, hangar and passenger!
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jack
>
> <<...>>
>
> Jack Textor
>
> 29 SW 58th Drive
>
> Des Moines, IA 50312
>
> www.textors.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Cable Tension |
It came today. Read the article about cables and it didn't help much. I
need a set of what the article calls 'manufacturer's tolerances'. I guess
I'll use Jack Philips' system.
----- Original Message -----
From: "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net>
Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2010 12:12 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cable Tension
>
>
> Chuck Campbell wrote:
>> I don't have my Jan 2011 issue. Guess I need to call EAA.
>>
>> ---
>
>
> Just got mine yesterday... don't panic just yet.
>
> --------
> Mark Chouinard
> Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324822#324822
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
Got the fuel tank sealed and assembled today!! .must have done things right,
'cuz I got the required amount of mess on my hands!!
Thanks to the pair of Jack's: Jack Phillips and Jack Textor.
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, Running!
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(23 ribs down.)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "bender" <jfaith(at)solairusaviation.com> |
Ok... .i think i'm getting closer
I have the gear legs about right... but i made the lower bracket to the plans and
the angles just aren't right... but looking at the west coast site i see that
the metal was made to fit the angles of the gear...not the wood to fit the
metal.. and that makes it all look a little better.
am i wrong here ?? the fittings i made could work but the lines or the angles
don't match
so i think it goes like this... make the wood fit in the jig and to the fuselage
attach points... then make the metal fitting to hold the bottom of the gear
together..right ??
jeff :?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324856#324856
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
Jeff,
I made all the wood parts first and then made the metal to fit the wood.
This is one of the reasons that prefabricated metal fittings for sale to
Pietenpol builders just doesn't work. You need to make the fittings "fit"
the wooden structure.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Raleigh, NC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of bender
Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2010 8:02 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: gear fittings
Ok... .i think i'm getting closer
I have the gear legs about right... but i made the lower bracket to the
plans and the angles just aren't right... but looking at the west coast site
i see that the metal was made to fit the angles of the gear...not the wood
to fit the metal.. and that makes it all look a little better.
am i wrong here ?? the fittings i made could work but the lines or the
angles don't match
so i think it goes like this... make the wood fit in the jig and to the
fuselage attach points... then make the metal fitting to hold the bottom of
the gear together..right ??
jeff :?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324856#324856
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack" <jack(at)textors.com> |
| Subject: | Piet List Directory |
Mac,
You are correct, not on the list. I've attached a pdf of the template to
fill out. In your return email just duplicate the information with each
cell separated by a comma. I will then try and do a pdf for you.
Thanks,
Jack
Do you have Word?
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
macz(at)peak.org
Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2010 4:17 PM
Subject: RE: RE: Pietenpol-List: Piet List Directory
Jack--
I don't know if I'm on the list either, and I don't use Excel. Is there a
PDF version available?
Thanks, Mac in Oregon
> Barry,
>
> It's not public, just available to those who submit info. Attached is the
> latest copy, thanks.
>
>
> _____
>
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Barry
> Davis
> Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2010 1:39 PM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Piet List Directory
>
>
> Jack
>
> Is this list on the web somewhere? I was wondering if all the Big Piet
> guys
> submitted their info
>
> Barry
>
>
> _____
>
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack
> Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2010 1:25 PM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet List Directory
>
> Jeff, I noticed you are not listed in our directory, if you (or anyone
> else)
> would like to submit your info please complete the attached Excel file and
> return to me. I will then send you the updated list which has 74
> listings.
> BTW nice progress, hangar and passenger!
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jack
>
> <<...>>
>
> Jack Textor
>
> 29 SW 58th Drive
>
> Des Moines, IA 50312
>
> www.textors.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris" <catdesigns(at)att.net> |
"You need to make the fittings "fit"
the wooden structure."
Jack, I can't agree more. This is the number one tip I try to pass on to new
builders.
Chris
Sacramento, Ca
Westcoastpiet.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack
Phillips
Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2010 5:28 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: gear fittings
-->
Jeff,
I made all the wood parts first and then made the metal to fit the wood.
This is one of the reasons that prefabricated metal fittings for sale to
Pietenpol builders just doesn't work. You need to make the fittings "fit"
the wooden structure.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Raleigh, NC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of bender
Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2010 8:02 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: gear fittings
-->
Ok... .i think i'm getting closer
I have the gear legs about right... but i made the lower bracket to the
plans and the angles just aren't right... but looking at the west coast site
i see that the metal was made to fit the angles of the gear...not the wood
to fit the metal.. and that makes it all look a little better.
am i wrong here ?? the fittings i made could work but the lines or the
angles don't match so i think it goes like this... make the wood fit in the
jig and to the fuselage attach points... then make the metal fitting to hold
the bottom of the gear together..right ??
jeff :?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324856#324856
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris" <catdesigns(at)att.net> |
You are correct. Make the fittings fit your airplane.
Chris
Sacramento, Ca
Westcoastpiet.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of bender
Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2010 5:02 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: gear fittings
-->
Ok... .i think i'm getting closer
I have the gear legs about right... but i made the lower bracket to the
plans and the angles just aren't right... but looking at the west coast site
i see that the metal was made to fit the angles of the gear...not the wood
to fit the metal.. and that makes it all look a little better.
am i wrong here ?? the fittings i made could work but the lines or the
angles don't match so i think it goes like this... make the wood fit in the
jig and to the fuselage attach points... then make the metal fitting to hold
the bottom of the gear together..right ??
jeff :?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324856#324856
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dick N" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
With all of the cold we have been getting, I finally got out for an hour
today. Lots of snow around here, about 3+ feet. Air was perfectly
smooth, which made cruising at 1 foot above the ice on local lakes just
fine. I'm in MN and west WI.
I was dreaming about going to Brodhead. Actually Sun n Fun Is coming up
soon. I'm hoping everybody will come down and see us in the Wood
Workshop.
Dick N.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TOM MICHELLE BRANT <tmbrant(at)msn.com> |
Great to hear you're getting up in the winter - at least it's been a little
warmer lately.
Hey - we should talk about Sun-N-Fun. I may have a project for you down th
ere but I'd need to know how to arrange the material shipping an all. Let'
s keep in touch.
Tom B.
From: horzpool(at)goldengate.net
Subject: Pietenpol-List: flying=2C finally
Date: Tue=2C 28 Dec 2010 21:34:17 -0600
With all of the cold we have been getting=2C I
finally got out for an hour today. Lots of snow around here=2C about 3+
feet. Air was perfectly smooth=2C which made cruising at 1 foot above the
ice on local lakes just fine. I'm in MN and west WI.
I was dreaming about going to Brodhead.
Actually Sun n Fun Is coming up soon. I'm hoping everybody will come down
and see us in the Wood Workshop.
Dick N.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Boyer <boyerjrb(at)comcast.net> |
Looks very good Gary. Will have to ask questions tomorrow at lunch.
Jim
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2010 4:59:47 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fuel tank
Got the fuel tank sealed and assembled today!! .must have done things right,
'cuz I got the required amount of mess on my hands!!
Thanks to the pair of Jack's: Jack Phillips and Jack Textor.
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, Running!
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(23 ribs down.)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack" <jack(at)textors.com> |
Looks good Gary, give it a month to dry before testing.
Jack
DSM
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Boothe
Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2010 7:00 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fuel tank
Got the fuel tank sealed and assembled today!! .must have done things right,
'cuz I got the required amount of mess on my hands!!
Thanks to the pair of Jack's: Jack Phillips and Jack Textor.
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, Running!
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(23 ribs down.)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Sweeney's Radiator |
| From: | "Pieti Lowell" <Lowellcfrank(at)yahoo.com> |
Thanks Raymond,
The Zenith Carb could be repaired, as the accelerator is the problem, and will
operate with-out it's function.
Pieti Lowell
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324907#324907
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dangerous Dave" <dsornbor(at)aol.com> |
Howdy,got the one wing done and starting on the next.Coming out well.Dave
--------
Covering Piet
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324949#324949
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/2010_12_29_14_37_47_828_200.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/2010_12_29_12_37_58_179_166.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kenneth Bickers <bickers.ken(at)gmail.com> |
Dave, Looking very nice. Love the scalloping of the paint job on the wing.
I'm impressed you're able to do the fabric and paint in the cold of winter
on the mountainside. You must be running a hoss of a furnace. Cheers, Ken
On Wed, Dec 29, 2010 at 3:22 PM, Dangerous Dave wrote:
>
> Howdy,got the one wing done and starting on the next.Coming out well.Dave
>
> --------
> Covering Piet
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324949#324949
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/2010_12_29_14_37_47_828_200.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/2010_12_29_12_37_58_179_166.jpg
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gliderx5(at)comcast.net |
Dave
Great job. What products are you using? I'm hoping to start covering a wing in
a couple weeks. Not looking forward to the rib stitching.
Malcolm Morrison
http://home.comcast.net/~mmorrison123/piet.html
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dangerous Dave" <dsornbor(at)aol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2010 5:22:26 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: One Done
Howdy,got the one wing done and starting on the next.Coming out well.Dave
--------
Covering Piet
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324949#324949
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/2010_12_29_14_37_47_828_200.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/2010_12_29_12_37_58_179_166.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dangerous Dave" <dsornbor(at)aol.com> |
Thanks,I've got 175000 BTU bunion burner and 20 gallons diesel a dayto keep it
at 85 and its coal black and tiger orange.dave
--------
Covering Piet
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324959#324959
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com> |
Gotta love that orange!- I think that is my favriot color on an airplane.
-
Shad
--- On Wed, 12/29/10, Kenneth Bickers wrote:
From: Kenneth Bickers <bickers.ken(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: One Done
Date: Wednesday, December 29, 2010, 5:44 PM
Dave, Looking very nice.- Love the scalloping of the paint job on the win
g.- I'm impressed you're able to do the fabric and paint in the cold of w
inter on the mountainside.- You must be running a hoss of a furnace.- C
heers, Ken
On Wed, Dec 29, 2010 at 3:22 PM, Dangerous Dave wrote:
Howdy,got the one wing done and starting on the next.Coming out well.Dave
--------
Covering Piet
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324949#324949
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/2010_12_29_14_37_47_828_200.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/2010_12_29_12_37_58_179_166.jpg
nnual List Fund Raiser. -Click on
/" target="_blank">www.aeroelectric.com
omebuiltHELP www.homebuilthelp.com
http:/r generous support!
Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
s.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Darrel Jones <wd6bor(at)vom.com> |
| Subject: | Pat and Mary Hoyt lunch in Sacto |
Just got home from lunch in Sacramento with Pat and Mary Hoyt from
Minneapolis, arranged by Gary Boothe, and wanted to thank Gary for
putting it together. It was great to see Pat and the rest of the
crank-busters again and to meet his delightful wife Mary.
Several of the bunch are planning on being in Brodhead this year, along
with Pat and Mary, so I look forward to seeing everyone again there.
People keep asking when I'll get the engine together, so to avoid
further humiliation, I'm setting the goal of Brodhead this year,
although I won't be flying it back. If not, I suppose I'll have to buy
beer for everyone to make amends.
Thanks to Jim Boyer for picking me up and driving.
Darrel Jones
Pfeifer Sport
Sonoma, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ernie Moreno" <ewmoreno(at)minetfiber.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pat and Mary Hoyt lunch in Sacto |
Hey Darrel, I would gladly accept a beer from you at Brodhead this year. By
the way if you need help I might be able later this spring to get down there
for a week. 23 years and counting.
Ernie Moreno
----- Original Message -----
From: "Darrel Jones" <wd6bor(at)vom.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2010 5:11 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pat and Mary Hoyt lunch in Sacto
>
> Just got home from lunch in Sacramento with Pat and Mary Hoyt from
> Minneapolis, arranged by Gary Boothe, and wanted to thank Gary for putting
> it together. It was great to see Pat and the rest of the crank-busters
> again and to meet his delightful wife Mary.
>
> Several of the bunch are planning on being in Brodhead this year, along
> with Pat and Mary, so I look forward to seeing everyone again there.
> People keep asking when I'll get the engine together, so to avoid further
> humiliation, I'm setting the goal of Brodhead this year, although I won't
> be flying it back. If not, I suppose I'll have to buy beer for everyone to
> make amends.
>
> Thanks to Jim Boyer for picking me up and driving.
>
> Darrel Jones
> Pfeifer Sport
> Sonoma, CA
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dick N" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
Malcolm
I went thru the same thing. On the second plane I found that my wife
really enjoyed stiching. We did it together and it really went fast.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: gliderx5(at)comcast.net
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2010 6:24 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: One Done
Dave
Great job. What products are you using? I'm hoping to start covering
a wing in a couple weeks. Not looking forward to the rib stitching.
Malcolm Morrison
http://home.comcast.net/~mmorrison123/piet.html
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dangerous Dave" <dsornbor(at)aol.com>
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2010 5:22:26 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: One Done
Howdy,got the one wing done and starting on the next.Coming out
well.Dave
--------
Covering Piet
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324949#324949
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/2010_12_29_14_37_47_828_200.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//
===========
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dangerous Dave" <dsornbor(at)aol.com> |
Malcom,I used Ceconite 101&102 with the Stewart System.Stitched it all with the
Staggerwing Stitch which is approved with Stewarts.Its very quick and is the
only knot I know of that will pull down easily.dave
--------
Covering Piet
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324995#324995
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | helspersew(at)aol.com |
Dave,
Very impressive. I really like your large scallops- resembles a bird wing.
Keep up the good work. At this rate you will be flying by spring for sure!
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> |
Dave, you might have already posted the answer to this but I missed it --
what paint system are you using?
Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dangerous Dave" <dsornbor(at)aol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2010 5:22 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: One Done
>
> Howdy,got the one wing done and starting on the next.Coming out well.Dave
>
> --------
> Covering Piet
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324949#324949
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/2010_12_29_14_37_47_828_200.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/2010_12_29_12_37_58_179_166.jpg
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> |
Another one -- how can I find out what the stagerwing stitch is and how to
tie it?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dangerous Dave" <dsornbor(at)aol.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2010 5:28 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: One Done
>
> Malcom,I used Ceconite 101&102 with the Stewart System.Stitched it all
> with the Staggerwing Stitch which is approved with Stewarts.Its very quick
> and is the only knot I know of that will pull down easily.dave
>
> --------
> Covering Piet
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324995#324995
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "pineymb" <airltd(at)mts.net> |
Looking for advise as to what is acceptable for aileron hinges as opposed to using
the strap hinges shown on the drawings. I am considering using three sections
of stainless hinge 2" x 6" long per aileron. Also have the same size in aluminum.
Any suggestions greatly appreciated.
--------
Adrian M
Winnipeg, MB
Canada
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325004#325004
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dangerous Dave" <dsornbor(at)aol.com> |
Chuck go to Stewart Systems website and you can download their whole manual.The
staggerwing page is toward the end.I am really liking everything they have.Good
stuff.Dave
--------
Covering Piet
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325011#325011
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
Adrian,
Having flown Pietenpols with and without the aileron gaps sealed, I would
strongly urge you to use aluminum piano hinges the full length of the
aileron. Without the gaps sealed, the ailerons are sluggish and borderline
ineffective. With full span piano hinges, you have a nice strong hinge and
get the gap sealed for free.
One word of advice - it is far easier if you use one 6 foot piece of piano
hinge per aileron. I followed the advice given by Tony Bingelis and broke
my hinges up into 6 12" sections so that if the wing was flexed while I was
inputting aileron, the hinges would not bind. Totally unnecessary, and it
really makes keeping all those hinges properly aligned very difficult. Mike
Cuy used one long hinge per aileron and it works just fine.
Also, I would use the cheaper AN257 rather than the MS20001 type. Plenty
strong enough and 1/5th the price. I used the more expensive (and stronger)
MS20001 type but would not do so if I were to do it over.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Raleigh, NC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of pineymb
Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2010 8:23 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Aileron Hinge
Looking for advise as to what is acceptable for aileron hinges as opposed to
using the strap hinges shown on the drawings. I am considering using three
sections of stainless hinge 2" x 6" long per aileron. Also have the same
size in aluminum.
Any suggestions greatly appreciated.
--------
Adrian M
Winnipeg, MB
Canada
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325004#325004
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Don Heringhaus" <don.h(at)wcoil.com> |
Go here http://wn.com/Rib_(aircraft)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Darrel Jones <wd6bor(at)vom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pat and Mary Hoyt lunch in Sacto |
Ernie,
I will definitely buy you a beer at Brodhead. It's a slow construction
season so I'm planning on getting to the hangar and getting it done.
See you in Brodhead.
Thanks,
Darrel
On 12/29/2010 6:41 PM, Ernie Moreno wrote:
>
>
> Hey Darrel, I would gladly accept a beer from you at Brodhead this
> year. By the way if you need help I might be able later this spring to
> get down there for a week. 23 years and counting.
>
> Ernie Moreno
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Darrel Jones" <wd6bor(at)vom.com>
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2010 5:11 PM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pat and Mary Hoyt lunch in Sacto
>
>
>>
>> Just got home from lunch in Sacramento with Pat and Mary Hoyt from
>> Minneapolis, arranged by Gary Boothe, and wanted to thank Gary for
>> putting it together. It was great to see Pat and the rest of the
>> crank-busters again and to meet his delightful wife Mary.
>>
>> Several of the bunch are planning on being in Brodhead this year,
>> along with Pat and Mary, so I look forward to seeing everyone again
>> there. People keep asking when I'll get the engine together, so to
>> avoid further humiliation, I'm setting the goal of Brodhead this
>> year, although I won't be flying it back. If not, I suppose I'll have
>> to buy beer for everyone to make amends.
>>
>> Thanks to Jim Boyer for picking me up and driving.
>>
>> Darrel Jones
>> Pfeifer Sport
>> Sonoma, CA
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----
>> No virus found in this message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Aileron Hinge |
| From: | "Jerry Dotson" <jdotson(at)centurylink.net> |
I agree with Jack. I used full length on the tail feathers too.
--------
Jerry Dotson
59 Daniel Johnson Rd
Baker, FL 32531
Started building NX510JD July, 2009
wing, tailfeathers done
using Lycoming O-235
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325046#325046
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/r_aileron_8x6_932.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Aileron Hinge |
| From: | Kimball Isaac <kim.integrity(at)gmail.com> |
Jerry
How did you install the hinges on the tail. Any pics
Kim
On 2010-12-30 12:26 PM, "Jerry Dotson" wrote:
jdotson(at)centurylink.net>
>
> I agree with Jack. I used full length on the tail feathers too.
>
> --------
> Jerry Dotson
> 59 Daniel Johnson Rd
> Baker, FL 32531
>
> Started building NX510JD July, 2009
> wing, tailfeathers done
> using Lycoming O-235
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325046#325046
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/r_aileron_8x6_932.jpg
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Aileron Hinge |
| From: | "Jerry Dotson" <jdotson(at)centurylink.net> |
I don't have many pictures. I cut a 1/16" groove in the edges and epoxied 0.060
hinges in the groove. Then I put a pins through it to have an extra margin of
safety just in case the epoxy wants to turn loose. I also made those members
where the hinges go 1/2" wider(front to back) to accommodate cutting the groove
in them. It probably wasn't necessary but if I wear suspenders I wear a belt
also. Thickness is the same as the drawings. I got the slot cutters at Harbor
Freight for use on a router but wound up using my drill press with a fence on
the table so I had better control over it. I will drill the ends of the hinges
and use cotter pins to secure the hinge stainless hinge pin. I tried drilling
the pins but that stainless is hard as woodpecker lips. Don't ask how many
1/16 drills I broke until I finally woke up! There is also angles sawed on them
so they don't bind when moved. Set the saw on 15 degrees and the fence so it
leaves about 1/4" flat. That will let you have 30 degrees movement each way from
center.
--------
Jerry Dotson
59 Daniel Johnson Rd
Baker, FL 32531
Started building NX510JD July, 2009
wing, tailfeathers done
using Lycoming O-235
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325055#325055
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/elev_close_8x6_652.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/elevator_hinge_8x6_124.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Aileron Hinge |
| From: | "pineymb" <airltd(at)mts.net> |
Thanks Jack on your advise on the full span piano hinge serving a dual purpose.
Just to clarify, the wings were built by someone else who started the project
and he had used the strap hinges and welded the loops closed causing distortion
and poor alignment of the hinge half's. A gap of 3/8" was maintained between
the aileron beams as per drawings, so to replace the strap hinges with a continuous
piano hinge, I would have to mount the hinge on the flat similar to what
Jerry has done in order to keep the trailing edges of the wing and aileron
aligned due to the existing gap.
Although I would prefer the method used by Mike Cuy (as per his pics on Westcoast
Piet) and I think yours Jack, would there be any structural integrity differences
between the two?
Jerry could you give me the opened size of the hinge if you know it off hand
Thanks again in advance for you inputs.
--------
Adrian M
Winnipeg, MB
Canada
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325057#325057
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Aileron Hinge |
You might be able to shim the hinge toward the trailing edge if needed.
--- On Thu, 12/30/10, pineymb wrote:
From: pineymb <airltd(at)mts.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aileron Hinge
Date: Thursday, December 30, 2010, 6:44 PM
Thanks Jack on your advise on the full span piano hinge serving a dual purp
ose. Just to clarify, the wings were built by someone else who started the
project and he had used the strap hinges and welded the loops closed causin
g distortion and poor alignment of the hinge half's. A gap of 3/8" was main
tained between the aileron beams as per drawings, so to replace the strap h
inges with a continuous piano hinge, I would have to mount the hinge on the
flat similar to what Jerry has done in order to keep the trailing edges of
the wing and aileron aligned due to the existing gap.
Although I would prefer the method used by Mike Cuy (as per his pics on Wes
tcoast Piet) and I think yours Jack, would there be any structural integrit
y differences between the two?
Jerry could you give me the opened size of the hinge if you know it off han
d
Thanks again in advance for you inputs.
--------
Adrian M
Winnipeg, MB
Canada
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325057#325057
le, List Admin.
=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Aileron Hinge |
| From: | "Jerry Dotson" <jdotson(at)centurylink.net> |
The hinge is 1 1/2 inches wide with a 1/8" pin. I turned the rounded part down
so it would be smooth on top and that made for a 1/4 gap underneath.
--------
Jerry Dotson
59 Daniel Johnson Rd
Baker, FL 32531
Started building NX510JD July, 2009
wing, tailfeathers done
using Lycoming O-235
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325061#325061
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "crazyivan" <dmivezic(at)yahoo.com> |
A quick scan of the FAA database shows about 450 Pietenpols registered in the USA.
--------
Dave
Piper PA-22/20
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325066#325066
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Clif Dawson" <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Aileron Hinge |
There are cobalt bits available. Here in Canada they can be
had from CrappyTire ( Canadian Tire! ) among others.
These things will drill hard metals. And no, Titanium bits
don't even come close.
Clif
I tried drilling the pins but that stainless is hard as woodpecker lips.
Don't ask how many 1/16 drills I broke until I finally woke up! > Jerry
Dotson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack" <jack(at)textors.com> |
| Subject: | Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings |
In the attached photo you really can't see that the lower and side gear
fittings are slanted to one side. Did others build with this slant? (I
believe Dave did) If so does it angle in to between the struts? So the
front one would slant back and the rear would slant forward? For the side
fitting, the bend is actually cut into the rectangle portion. Is this so a
larger portion of the side bracket can be welded to the bottom plate. I
also assume this cut and bend are the reasons the cross section drawing (top
right) looks like there are actually two pieces to the side fitting welded
to the bottom plate. Sorry I can't be more clear with this. I've combed
the archives and pictures but still don't have a good understanding how it
all goes together. I would appreciate any pictures that would help with my
confusion. Feel free to send to my email directly so we don't litter the
list.
Thanks and have a great safe New Year!
Jack
DSM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> |
Dave, I couldn't find anything on the Stewart home page about a manual. How
do I get to the manual link?
Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dangerous Dave" <dsornbor(at)aol.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2010 9:46 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: One Done
>
> Chuck go to Stewart Systems website and you can download their whole
> manual.The staggerwing page is toward the end.I am really liking
> everything they have.Good stuff.Dave
>
> --------
> Covering Piet
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325011#325011
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Aileron Hinge |
Adrian,
Can you provide a picture? I think you should be able to make shims of
spruce that you could add to the spars to take up the space. As long as the
bolts that attach the piano hinges go through the spars it should not be an
issue.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Raleigh, NC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of pineymb
Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2010 6:44 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aileron Hinge
Thanks Jack on your advise on the full span piano hinge serving a dual
purpose. Just to clarify, the wings were built by someone else who started
the project and he had used the strap hinges and welded the loops closed
causing distortion and poor alignment of the hinge half's. A gap of 3/8" was
maintained between the aileron beams as per drawings, so to replace the
strap hinges with a continuous piano hinge, I would have to mount the hinge
on the flat similar to what Jerry has done in order to keep the trailing
edges of the wing and aileron aligned due to the existing gap.
Although I would prefer the method used by Mike Cuy (as per his pics on
Westcoast Piet) and I think yours Jack, would there be any structural
integrity differences between the two?
Jerry could you give me the opened size of the hinge if you know it off hand
Thanks again in advance for you inputs.
--------
Adrian M
Winnipeg, MB
Canada
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325057#325057
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CJ Borsuk <cjborsuk(at)yahoo.com> |
Hi Chuck,
-
Here you go. Just downloaded it last night.
Chuck BorsukRaleigh NC
--- On Fri, 12/31/10, Charles Campbell wrote:
From: Charles Campbell <cncampbell(at)windstream.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: One Done
Date: Friday, December 31, 2010, 7:59 AM
ream.net>
Dave, I couldn't find anything on the Stewart home page about a manual.-
How
do I get to the manual link?
Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dangerous Dave" <dsornbor(at)aol.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2010 9:46 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: One Done
>
> Chuck go to Stewart Systems website and you can download their whole
> manual.The staggerwing page is toward the end.I am really liking
> everything they have.Good stuff.Dave
>
> --------
> Covering Piet
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325011#325011
>
>
>
le, List Admin.
=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gboothe5" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
Charles,
If you go to the website (follow this link:
http://www.stewartsystems.aero/support.aspx), you will see the manual listed
under "Download Files", about 8 down in the list.
Gary
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charles
Campbell
Sent: Friday, December 31, 2010 5:00 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: One Done
Dave, I couldn't find anything on the Stewart home page about a manual. How
do I get to the manual link?
Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dangerous Dave" <dsornbor(at)aol.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2010 9:46 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: One Done
>
> Chuck go to Stewart Systems website and you can download their whole
> manual.The staggerwing page is toward the end.I am really liking
> everything they have.Good stuff.Dave
>
> --------
> Covering Piet
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325011#325011
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jerry Dotson" <jdotson(at)centurylink.net> |
Here 'tis
http://www.stewartsystems.aero/support.aspx
--------
Jerry Dotson
59 Daniel Johnson Rd
Baker, FL 32531
Started building NX510JD July, 2009
wing, tailfeathers done
using Lycoming O-235
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325094#325094
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> |
Thank you. Found it and saved it to my computer. I'll look for the
Stagger Wing knot.
Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: CJ Borsuk
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, December 31, 2010 9:24 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: One Done
Hi Chuck,
Here you go. Just downloaded it last night.
Chuck Borsuk
Raleigh NC
--- On Fri, 12/31/10, Charles Campbell
wrote:
From: Charles Campbell <cncampbell(at)windstream.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: One Done
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Friday, December 31, 2010, 7:59 AM
Dave, I couldn't find anything on the Stewart home page about
a manual. How
do I get to the manual link?
Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dangerous Dave" <dsornbor(at)aol.com>
To:
Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2010 9:46 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: One Done
>
> Chuck go to Stewart Systems website and you can download
their whole
> manual.The staggerwing page is toward the end.I am really
liking
> everything they have.Good stuff.Dave
>
> --------
> Covering Piet
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325011#325011
>
>
>
>
>
>
d Get Some AWESOME FREE sp; -Matt Dralle, List
?Pietenpol-List"
target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpbsp;
- MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -=====
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Aileron Hinge |
| From: | "pineymb" <airltd(at)mts.net> |
Jack
Went into the shop this morning and took a few pictures which hopefully show enough
detail of the aileron hinge setup. As you can see there is serious overkill
in the size of the hinges as well as the poor alignment due to the welding
of the loops. I stopped by a local hardware store and picked up various strap
hinges to use as samples. The plans call for a 3" light strap which I perceive
to be the length of one halve and the width being 1.25" as opposed to the 2.5"
wide heavy duty hinge as shown in the pictures.
Certainly like the idea of a continuous hinge which as you mentioned would involve
adding two layers of 1/8" ply to the aileron beams. In your opinion would
the width of shim be same as the hinge or the full width of the beam to have a
flat surface for the fabric finish?
Haven't had any luck finding pictures of you setup so if have any and would like
to share them it would be greatly appreciated. You could forward them offline
if you prefer.
--------
Adrian M
Winnipeg, MB
Canada
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325114#325114
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00364_978.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00362_197.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00359_105.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Aileron Hinge |
Hi Adrian,
I would probably glue a strip of 1/8" plywood the fell length of the spars
to give a smooth covering surface, as you suggested. The weight is not
significant (and certainly less than those moster hinges and bolts you are
replacing).
I really don't have any pictures that show that part of my wing. I built
the wing and ailerons before I got a digital camera and didn't record that
portion of the project very well. I'm sure Chris Tracy must have some on
his website.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Raleigh, NC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of pineymb
Sent: Friday, December 31, 2010 1:38 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aileron Hinge
Jack
Went into the shop this morning and took a few pictures which hopefully show
enough detail of the aileron hinge setup. As you can see there is serious
overkill in the size of the hinges as well as the poor alignment due to the
welding of the loops. I stopped by a local hardware store and picked up
various strap hinges to use as samples. The plans call for a 3" light strap
which I perceive to be the length of one halve and the width being 1.25" as
opposed to the 2.5" wide heavy duty hinge as shown in the pictures.
Certainly like the idea of a continuous hinge which as you mentioned would
involve adding two layers of 1/8" ply to the aileron beams. In your opinion
would the width of shim be same as the hinge or the full width of the beam
to have a flat surface for the fabric finish?
Haven't had any luck finding pictures of you setup so if have any and would
like to share them it would be greatly appreciated. You could forward them
offline if you prefer.
--------
Adrian M
Winnipeg, MB
Canada
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325114#325114
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00364_978.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00362_197.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00359_105.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Aileron Hinge |
| From: | "womenfly2" <keriannprice(at)hotmail.com> |
You can check out my web site, see below.
--------
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325143#325143
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris" <catdesigns(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Aileron Hinge |
Adrian
Jack Textor sent some good pictures of his full span aileron hinges
Jack's web page is
http://www.textors.com/PietProject.htm
Look for the hinge pictures near the bottom.
Here are a couple of them from my web page but I think they are duplicates
of his page.
http://westcoastpiet.com/images/Jack%20Textor/images/9-25-08_006_800x600.jpg
http://westcoastpiet.com/images/Jack%20Textor/images/Ailerons_003_800x600.jp
g
Poke around his picture page on my website and you can see pictures of how
he instilled them.
http://westcoastpiet.com/images/Jack%20Textor/wing.htm
I also did the full span hinges but haven uploaded the pictures to the
website yet.
Chris
Sacramento, Ca
Westcoastpiet.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of pineymb
Sent: Friday, December 31, 2010 10:38 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aileron Hinge
Jack
Went into the shop this morning and took a few pictures which hopefully show
enough detail of the aileron hinge setup. As you can see there is serious
overkill in the size of the hinges as well as the poor alignment due to the
welding of the loops. I stopped by a local hardware store and picked up
various strap hinges to use as samples. The plans call for a 3" light strap
which I perceive to be the length of one halve and the width being 1.25" as
opposed to the 2.5" wide heavy duty hinge as shown in the pictures.
Certainly like the idea of a continuous hinge which as you mentioned would
involve adding two layers of 1/8" ply to the aileron beams. In your opinion
would the width of shim be same as the hinge or the full width of the beam
to have a flat surface for the fabric finish?
Haven't had any luck finding pictures of you setup so if have any and would
like to share them it would be greatly appreciated. You could forward them
offline if you prefer.
--------
Adrian M
Winnipeg, MB
Canada
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325114#325114
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00364_978.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00362_197.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00359_105.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Clif Dawson" <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> |
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9OsIBk_RWQY&feature=player_embedded#!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fw3rrsuma3c&feature=related
There's a whole bunch of other neat stitch stuff to click
on here too here too
I prefer watching here because my Old Slow Computer
will only smoothly run vids at 240p which I can choose
here.
Clif
----- Original Message -----
From: Charles Campbell
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, December 31, 2010 8:58 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: One Done
Thank you. Found it and saved it to my computer. I'll look for the
Stagger Wing knot.
Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: CJ Borsuk
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, December 31, 2010 9:24 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: One Done
Hi Chuck,
Here you go. Just downloaded it last night.
Chuck Borsuk
Raleigh NC
--- On Fri, 12/31/10, Charles Campbell
wrote:
From: Charles Campbell <cncampbell(at)windstream.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: One Done
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Friday, December 31, 2010, 7:59 AM
Dave, I couldn't find anything on the Stewart home page
about a manual. How
do I get to the manual link?
Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dangerous Dave" <dsornbor(at)aol.com>
To:
Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2010 9:46 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: One Done
>
> Chuck go to Stewart Systems website and you can download
their whole
> manual.The staggerwing page is toward the end.I am really
liking
> everything they have.Good stuff.Dave
>
> --------
> Covering Piet
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
>
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325011#325011
>
>
>
>
>
>
d Get Some AWESOME FREE sp; -Matt Dralle, List
?Pietenpol-List"
target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpbsp;
- MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -=====
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | AMsafetyC(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Happy 2011 may 2010 go directly to well thats another |
story typical JR Rant
My friends,
It is with great optimism that I look forward to 2011 with the relief and
healing it may bring to so many of us. I must admit and in all honesty and
humility that I for one have no desire to repeat or relive any part of the
2010 year which can only be remembered as the year filled with great sorrow
and pain broken only by the spares few good times, only to be paid for by
more sorrow. I say good riddance to 2010 may it never rear its ugly head
again or be repeated by any other year capable of brining with it so much
disparity, suffering and disappointment to myself and the so many others that
have lost loved ones,security,homes,income,health&well being, their futures
and the futures of their children. 2010 has been an ugly year for many of
us.
We can only hope that healing is just around the corner and be truly
thankful for our family, friends and that we live and share in the bounty of
this great country the one that God has seen fit to smile upon for so many
years.
2010 may you go directly to, well that's another story, just please be gone
for ever and don't come back. Having brought 2010 to a close, I can only
wish you all a safe, healthy and prosperous 2011.
Happy New Year to All
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Aileron Hinge |
Chris, apparently the links you sent last night are bad. My computer comes
up with "Page not found" on all three links. Sure you sent the correct
links or is my computer screwwy? Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris" <catdesigns(at)att.net>
Sent: Friday, December 31, 2010 9:46 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aileron Hinge
>
> Adrian
>
> Jack Textor sent some good pictures of his full span aileron hinges
> Jack's web page is
> http://www.textors.com/PietProject.htm
> Look for the hinge pictures near the bottom.
>
> Here are a couple of them from my web page but I think they are duplicates
> of his page.
> http://westcoastpiet.com/images/Jack%20Textor/images/9-25-08_006_800x600.jpg
> http://westcoastpiet.com/images/Jack%20Textor/images/Ailerons_003_800x600.jp
> g
>
> Poke around his picture page on my website and you can see pictures of how
> he instilled them.
> http://westcoastpiet.com/images/Jack%20Textor/wing.htm
>
> I also did the full span hinges but haven uploaded the pictures to the
> website yet.
>
> Chris
> Sacramento, Ca
> Westcoastpiet.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of pineymb
> Sent: Friday, December 31, 2010 10:38 AM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aileron Hinge
>
>
> Jack
>
> Went into the shop this morning and took a few pictures which hopefully
> show
> enough detail of the aileron hinge setup. As you can see there is serious
> overkill in the size of the hinges as well as the poor alignment due to
> the
> welding of the loops. I stopped by a local hardware store and picked up
> various strap hinges to use as samples. The plans call for a 3" light
> strap
> which I perceive to be the length of one halve and the width being 1.25"
> as
> opposed to the 2.5" wide heavy duty hinge as shown in the pictures.
>
> Certainly like the idea of a continuous hinge which as you mentioned would
> involve adding two layers of 1/8" ply to the aileron beams. In your
> opinion
> would the width of shim be same as the hinge or the full width of the beam
> to have a flat surface for the fabric finish?
>
> Haven't had any luck finding pictures of you setup so if have any and
> would
> like to share them it would be greatly appreciated. You could forward them
> offline if you prefer.
>
> --------
> Adrian M
> Winnipeg, MB
> Canada
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325114#325114
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00364_978.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00362_197.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00359_105.jpg
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | helspersew(at)aol.com |
Happy New Year to you all you good people, (no four-flushers here)
Here is my not-quite-finished logo I have been working on. This has been in
the works for about a year in total. After I got this idea one night in a
dream, I thought I surely had seen it before somewhere, and was just recall
ing it from what I had seen. So I Googled it and came up with nothing, so c
oncluded that I had dreamt this up myself. I wanted a true period font, so
I actually bought a used book of the 1929-era fonts from Amazon that was pu
blished in about 1930. You would have thought that I could find something i
n there that I liked, but no. So I did some searches of early air mail plan
es and found a photo from the Chicago Tribune photo archives from that era,
of an air mail plane with some lettering on it. This was precisely what I
was looking for. So at that point I hand-drew all the needed letters of the
correct sizes, and cut them out with scissors. Then I laid those letters o
ut on a piece of velum paper, and traced around them onto the velum. Then I
took my trusty pounce wheel (as suggested on this list by Glenn Thomas, CT
.) and "pounced" out all the letters and circle onto the velum. Then I tape
d the velum sheet onto my plane, and used a silver "magic marker" to transf
er the logo onto the side of my fuze. I used "One Shot" brand paint to hand
-paint onto the fuze. Now I will add some bird wings onto either side with
yellow.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
Nice to meet you, Mr. Loensloe. Perhaps we may fly together some day.
Looks good, Dan
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet, S.O.S. Mayday Model"
Raleigh, NC
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
helspersew(at)aol.com
Sent: Saturday, January 01, 2011 7:17 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: My new logo
Happy New Year to you all you good people, (no four-flushers here)
Here is my not-quite-finished logo I have been working on. This has been in
the works for about a year in total. After I got this idea one night in a
dream, I thought I surely had seen it before somewhere, and was just
recalling it from what I had seen. So I Googled it and came up with nothing,
so concluded that I had dreamt this up myself. I wanted a true period font,
so I actually bought a used book of the 1929-era fonts from Amazon that was
published in about 1930. You would have thought that I could find something
in there that I liked, but no. So I did some searches of early air mail
planes and found a photo from the Chicago Tribune photo archives from that
era, of an air mail plane with some lettering on it. This was precisely what
I was looking for. So at that point I hand-drew all the needed letters of
the correct sizes, and cut them out with scissors. Then I laid those letters
out on a piece of velum paper, and traced around them onto the velum. Then I
took my trusty pounce wheel (as suggested on this list by Glenn Thomas, CT.)
and "pounced" out all the letters and circle onto the velum. Then I taped
the velum sheet onto my plane, and used a silver "magic marker" to transfer
the logo onto the side of my fuze. I used "One Shot" brand paint to
hand-paint onto the fuze. Now I will add some bird wings onto either side
with yellow.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> |
That's good. Happy New Year!
Don't know if this went out the first time, but here it is again.
----- Original Message -----
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, January 01, 2011 7:16 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: My new logo
Happy New Year to you all you good people, (no four-flushers here)
Here is my not-quite-finished logo I have been working on. This has
been in the works for about a year in total. After I got this idea one
night in a dream, I thought I surely had seen it before somewhere, and
was just recalling it from what I had seen. So I Googled it and came up
with nothing, so concluded that I had dreamt this up myself. I wanted a
true period font, so I actually bought a used book of the 1929-era fonts
from Amazon that was published in about 1930. You would have thought
that I could find something in there that I liked, but no. So I did some
searches of early air mail planes and found a photo from the Chicago
Tribune photo archives from that era, of an air mail plane with some
lettering on it. This was precisely what I was looking for. So at that
point I hand-drew all the needed letters of the correct sizes, and cut
them out with scissors. Then I laid those letters out on a piece of
velum paper, and traced around them onto the velum. Then I took my
trusty pounce wheel (as suggested on this list by Glenn Thomas, CT.) and
"pounced" out all the letters and circle onto the velum. Then I taped
the velum sheet onto my plane, and used a silver "magic marker" to
transfer the logo onto the side of my fuze. I used "One Shot" brand
paint to hand-paint onto the fuze. Now I will add some bird wings onto
either side with yellow.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack" <jack(at)textors.com> |
| Subject: | Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings |
Included some links for my second attempt. The "slanted" version would not
fit and line up with cross pieces. This one is square (.090) but I'm still
not happy with it. Even with relief holes drilled, the 110 degree bend
cracked on the edge. That may not matter after welding heavily but who
knows. Thinking about using .125 4130 for the bottom plate and utilize 2
pieces of .090 for the side fitting. My gear will definitely take a
beating.
Happy New Year All
Jack
DSM
http://textors.com/IMG_7519_1600x1067.jpg
http://textors.com/IMG_7520_1600x1067.jpg
http://textors.com/IMG_7522_1600x1067.jpg
http://textors.com/PietProject.html
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack
Sent: Friday, December 31, 2010 5:11 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Additional questions regarding split axle
gear fittings
In the attached photo you really can't see that the lower and side gear
fittings are slanted to one side. Did others build with this slant? (I
believe Dave did) If so does it angle in to between the struts? So the
front one would slant back and the rear would slant forward? For the side
fitting, the bend is actually cut into the rectangle portion. Is this so a
larger portion of the side bracket can be welded to the bottom plate. I
also assume this cut and bend are the reasons the cross section drawing (top
right) looks like there are actually two pieces to the side fitting welded
to the bottom plate. Sorry I can't be more clear with this. I've combed
the archives and pictures but still don't have a good understanding how it
all goes together. I would appreciate any pictures that would help with my
confusion. Feel free to send to my email directly so we don't litter the
list.
Thanks and have a great safe New Year!
Jack
DSM
<<...>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lawrence Williams <lnawms(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | New year....Whoopee |
Happy 2011 to all!! I was in the air at 0745 this morning cruising over the
central AR area (no enemy aircraft in sight) drinking a Dr. Pepper in chilly
weather and wondering how things could possibly be any better.
2010 was great with new pursuits, new grandchildren and nice trips with my
first wife . Life is good even with the loss of my father. It was his time to go
and things went smoothly for him and us but it's still a bit sad that one more
WWII fighter pilot gone.
New experiences are on the horizon and I am excited about what's in store. My
plans include Brodhead this year but there are other things that hit around the
same time so logistics might be a little frantic but not impossible.
The Piet is doing fine with the engine work and new head but I still claim the
title of "Tortise of the fleet". Just can't seem to break into the
over-60-mph-cruise regime. I have resigned myself to being happy with what I
have and don't sweat it anymore. It might not be swift but it always gets me
where I intend to go. "The Piet is slow but the sky is patient."
Happy to be above ground and vertical-
Larry
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Happy 2011 may 2010 go directly to well thats another |
story
| From: | "ldmill" <lorin.miller(at)emerson.com> |
Actually, my 2010 was one of the best years I've had, very few complaints! Bought
"my" GN-1 in May with the intention of using it to build tailwheel time till
I finish my Sonex - then sell GN. Interestingly enough, the wife and I have
had so much fun flying it that I was informed by her last week - by God, we are
not selling "HER" GN - we are going to find a bigger hanger for both planes
instead.
Considering the GN was purchased in lieu of her new car with no complaints... like
I said - it was a great year!
Lorin
--------
Lorin Miller
Waiex N81YX
GN-1 N30PP
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325197#325197
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | airlion <airlion(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: New year....Whoopee |
What a great paragraph and story . Happy New Year to you Lawrence and looking
forward to meeting you at Brodhead. Gardiner Mason
________________________________
From: Lawrence Williams <lnawms(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Sat, January 1, 2011 12:39:33 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: New year....Whoopee
Happy 2011 to all!! I was in the air at 0745 this morning cruising over the
central AR area (no enemy aircraft in sight) drinking a Dr. Pepper in chilly
weather and wondering how things could possibly be any better.
2010 was great with new pursuits, new grandchildren and nice trips with my
first wife . Life is good even with the loss of my father. It was his time to go
and things went smoothly for him and us but it's still a bit sad that one more
WWII fighter pilot gone.
New experiences are on the horizon and I am excited about what's in store. My
plans include Brodhead this year but there are other things that hit around the
same time so logistics might be a little frantic but not impossible.
The Piet is doing fine with the engine work and new head but I still claim the
title of "Tortise of the fleet". Just can't seem to break into the
over-60-mph-cruise regime. I have resigned myself to being happy with what I
have and don't sweat it anymore. It might not be swift but it always gets me
where I intend to go. "The Piet is slow but the sky is patient."
Happy to be above ground and vertical-
Larry
________________________________________________________________________________
I love it!
Ken
On Jan 1, 2011, at 7:16 AM, Helspersew(at)aol.com wrote:
> Happy New Year to you all you good people, (no four-flushers here)
>
> Here is my not-quite-finished logo I have been working on. This has
been in the works for about a year in total. After I got this idea one
December 21, 2010 - January 01, 2011
Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-jx