Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-jy

January 01, 2011 - January 10, 2011



      night in a dream, I thought I surely had seen it before somewhere, and 
      was just recalling it from what I had seen. So I Googled it and came up 
      with nothing, so concluded that I had dreamt this up myself. I wanted a 
      true period font, so I actually bought a used book of the 1929-era fonts 
      from Amazon that was published in about 1930. You would have thought 
      that I could find something in there that I liked, but no. So I did some 
      searches of early air mail planes and found a photo from the Chicago 
      Tribune photo archives from that era, of an air mail plane with some 
      lettering on it. This was precisely what I was looking for. So at that 
      point I hand-drew all the needed letters of the correct sizes, and cut 
      them out with scissors. Then I laid those letters out on a piece of 
      velum paper, and traced around them onto the velum. Then I took my 
      trusty pounce wheel (as suggested on this list by Glenn Thomas, CT.) and 
      "pounced" out all the letters and circle onto the velum. Then I taped 
      the velum sheet onto my plane, and used a silver "magic marker" to 
      transfer the logo onto the side of my fuze. I used "One Shot" brand 
      paint to hand-paint onto the fuze. Now I will add some bird wings onto 
      either side with yellow.
      >  
      > Dan Helsper
      > Poplar Grove, IL.
      > 
      > 
      > 
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Build Log Survey
From: "gtche98" <gtche98(at)gmail.com>
Date: Jan 01, 2011
I did a quick search in the forum and didn't see anything on this topic (at least recently), and I will quickly need to decide what I do for myself shortly, so I thought I would pose this question to all the experts out there: What method do you use to keep track of your build log? Is it a software or web based solution? Old fashioned 3 ring binder? How much did your solution cost you? Also, if your build log is accessible via the web, would you be willing to include a link in your response? Thanks again for your insight! Gary Wilson Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325248#325248 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au>
Subject: Build Log Survey
Date: Jan 02, 2011
Gary, Mine was (still is) a web site log. I host it myself so no costs other than an internet connection etc. Link is http://www.cpc-world.com Cheers Peter Wonthaggi Australia -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of gtche98 Sent: Sunday, 2 January 2011 1:05 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Build Log Survey I did a quick search in the forum and didn't see anything on this topic (at least recently), and I will quickly need to decide what I do for myself shortly, so I thought I would pose this question to all the experts out there: What method do you use to keep track of your build log? Is it a software or web based solution? Old fashioned 3 ring binder? How much did your solution cost you? Also, if your build log is accessible via the web, would you be willing to include a link in your response? Thanks again for your insight! Gary Wilson Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325248#325248 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Greg Cardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Build Log Survey
Date: Jan 01, 2011
Spiral bound notebook and a pencil. Greg Cardinal ----- Original Message ----- From: "gtche98" <gtche98(at)gmail.com> Sent: Saturday, January 01, 2011 8:05 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Build Log Survey > > I did a quick search in the forum and didn't see anything on this topic > (at least recently), and I will quickly need to decide what I do for > myself shortly, so I thought I would pose this question to all the experts > out there: > > What method do you use to keep track of your build log? Is it a software > or web based solution? Old fashioned 3 ring binder? How much did your > solution cost you? > > Also, if your build log is accessible via the web, would you be willing to > include a link in your response? > > Thanks again for your insight! > > Gary Wilson > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325248#325248 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Clif Dawson" <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Build Log Survey
Date: Jan 01, 2011
Two things for me- Pen and paper "diary" on a clipboard and my own website for pics, again in chronological order. http://www.clifdawson.ca/ Site cost me $9.50/mo. and there's a lot more than the Piet on it so it's not so I'm not sure how to relate the Piet's portion. It would probably be the same if it was only the Piet on it. Clif > What method do you use to keep track of your build log? Is it a software > or web based solution? Old fashioned 3 ring binder? How much did your > solution cost you? > > Also, if your build log is accessible via the web, would you be willing to > include a link in your response? > Gary Wilson ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Gene Rambo <generambo(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Aileron Hinge
Date: Jan 02, 2011
I don't have photos of mine=2C and I know I did mine somewhat differently f rom Jack=2C but here is what I have. I am using piano hinges that can be p ut on after the wing and aileron are covered. In order to make sure that t here is adequate room on the back of the spar for proper edge distance (bec ause the top of the aileron spar is beveled) I used piano hinges that are 3 " wide when open. The holes have to be around 3/4" down from the top to ha ve enough edge distance. I bought them from McMaster Carr=2C and you can b uy any width from them=2C but 3" worked. A 6' piece is around $15-18. I m ade the hinge even with the top of the wing=2C with nothing standing proud in the airstream. (I have a couple of pairs of other widths that I would se ll - my mistakes - if anyone is interested) I made the attachment screws spaced around 6" (some even number thaty did n ot land on any rib) there are 10 screws per hinge (10 on the wing=2C 10 on the aileron-OFFSET so that the heads do not touch!) I used 10-32 Tee nuts =2C and I squeezed them in with a c-clamp. I put a dab of T-88 on them to help hold them in=2C but at the last second=2C I added a small scrap of thi n plywood=2C maybe 1/2" by 1-1/2" across each one with glue and a single na il on each side to make absolutely sure that when I put the screw in it wil l not push the Tee nut out the back. (and there is a hole in the middle for the screw to go through without touching) Of course=2C they are not self- locking=2C but the screws are a little extra long=2C so if they back out it will be obvious without any chance of actually coming out. The chance of ALL 10 screws backing out enough that something falls off before I notice i t is . . . well . . . it ain't gonna happen. When I put the trailing edges on the aileron=2C I made the aileron trailing edge about 1/8 to 3/16 shy o f the wing. I expect the layers of fabric and tapes that will be under the piano hinge will make up the difference and they should align. There has been so much discussion=2C I thought I'd throw this out. I don't expect mine is any different from most (except Jack). Gene Rambo warm enough to get about 3 more ribs stitched yesterday ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Aileron Hinge
Date: Jan 02, 2011
To which Jack are you referring, Gene? Me or Jack Textor? I did mine pretty much as you have described, except I used multiple short pieces of hinge (which I have already said I would NOT do again) and I used nutplates in the inside of the spars rather than T-nuts. Jack Phillips NX899JP "Icarus Plummet" Raleigh, NC _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gene Rambo Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2011 11:00 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aileron Hinge I don't have photos of mine, and I know I did mine somewhat differently from Jack, but here is what I have. I am using piano hinges that can be put on after the wing and aileron are covered. In order to make sure that there is adequate room on the back of the spar for proper edge distance (because the top of the aileron spar is beveled) I used piano hinges that are 3" wide when open. The holes have to be around 3/4" down from the top to have enough edge distance. I bought them from McMaster Carr, and you can buy any width from them, but 3" worked. A 6' piece is around $15-18. I made the hinge even with the top of the wing, with nothing standing proud in the airstream. (I have a couple of pairs of other widths that I would sell - my mistakes - if anyone is interested) I made the attachment screws spaced around 6" (some even number thaty did not land on any rib) there are 10 screws per hinge (10 on the wing, 10 on the aileron-OFFSET so that the heads do not touch!) I used 10-32 Tee nuts, and I squeezed them in with a c-clamp. I put a dab of T-88 on them to help hold them in, but at the last second, I added a small scrap of thin plywood, maybe 1/2" by 1-1/2" across each one with glue and a single nail on each side to make absolutely sure that when I put the screw in it will not push the Tee nut out the back. (and there is a hole in the middle for the screw to go through without touching) Of course, they are not self-locking, but the screws are a little extra long, so if they back out it will be obvious without any chance of actually coming out. The chance of ALL 10 screws backing out enough that something falls off before I notice it is . . . well . . . it ain't gonna happen. When I put the trailing edges on the aileron, I made the aileron trailing edge about 1/8 to 3/16 shy of the wing. I expect the layers of fabric and tapes that will be under the piano hinge will make up the difference and they should align. There has been so much discussion, I thought I'd throw this out. I don't expect mine is any different from most (except Jack). Gene Rambo warm enough to get about 3 more ribs stitched yesterday ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Gene Rambo <generambo(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Aileron Hinge
Date: Jan 02, 2011
well=2C those are differences aren't they???? Gene From: pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aileron Hinge Date: Sun=2C 2 Jan 2011 13:10:07 -0500 To which Jack are you referring=2C Gene? Me or Jack Textor? I did mine pr etty much as you have described=2C except I used multiple short pieces of h inge (which I have already said I would NOT do again) and I used nutplates in the inside of the spars rather than T-nuts. Jack Phillips NX899JP =93Icarus Plummet=94 Raleigh=2C NC From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-lis t-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gene Rambo Sent: Sunday=2C January 02=2C 2011 11:00 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aileron Hinge I don't have photos of mine=2C and I know I did mine somewhat differently f rom Jack=2C but here is what I have. I am using piano hinges that can be p ut on after the wing and aileron are covered. In order to make sure that t here is adequate room on the back of the spar for proper edge distance (bec ause the top of the aileron spar is beveled) I used piano hinges that are 3 " wide when open. The holes have to be around 3/4" down from the top to ha ve enough edge distance. I bought them from McMaster Carr=2C and you can b uy any width from them=2C but 3" worked. A 6' piece is around $15-18. I m ade the hinge even with the top of the wing=2C with nothing standing proud in the airstream. (I have a couple of pairs of other widths that I would se ll - my mistakes - if anyone is interested) I made the attachment screws spaced around 6" (some even number thaty did n ot land on any rib) there are 10 screws per hinge (10 on the wing=2C 10 on the aileron-OFFSET so that the heads do not touch!) I used 10-32 Tee nuts =2C and I squeezed them in with a c-clamp. I put a dab of T-88 on them to help hold them in=2C but at the last second=2C I added a small scrap of thi n plywood=2C maybe 1/2" by 1-1/2" across each one with glue and a single na il on each side to make absolutely sure that when I put the screw in it wil l not push the Tee nut out the back. (and there is a hole in the middle for the screw to go through without touching) Of course=2C they are not self- locking=2C but the screws are a little extra long=2C so if they back out it will be obvious without any chance of actually coming out. The chance of ALL 10 screws backing out enough that something falls off before I notice i t is . . . well . . . it ain't gonna happen. When I put the trailing edges on the aileron=2C I made the aileron trailing edge about 1/8 to 3/16 shy o f the wing. I expect the layers of fabric and tapes that will be under the piano hinge will make up the difference and they should align. There has been so much discussion=2C I thought I'd throw this out. I don't expect mine is any different from most (except Jack). Gene Rambo warm enough to get about 3 more ribs stitched yesterday http://www.matroni cs.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhttp://forums.matronics.comhttp://www.matron ics.com/contribution ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net>
Subject: Re: Aileron Hinge
Date: Jan 02, 2011
Gene, what widths are they and how much do you want for a couple of 6-foot pairs? Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: Gene Rambo To: pietenpol-list Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2011 1:28 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aileron Hinge well, those are differences aren't they???? Gene ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aileron Hinge Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2011 13:10:07 -0500 To which Jack are you referring, Gene? Me or Jack Textor? I did mine pretty much as you have described, except I used multiple short pieces of hinge (which I have already said I would NOT do again) and I used nutplates in the inside of the spars rather than T-nuts. Jack Phillips NX899JP =93Icarus Plummet=94 Raleigh, NC ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gene Rambo Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2011 11:00 AM To: pietenpol-list Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aileron Hinge I don't have photos of mine, and I know I did mine somewhat differently from Jack, but here is what I have. I am using piano hinges that can be put on after the wing and aileron are covered. In order to make sure that there is adequate room on the back of the spar for proper edge distance (because the top of the aileron spar is beveled) I used piano hinges that are 3" wide when open. The holes have to be around 3/4" down from the top to have enough edge distance. I bought them from McMaster Carr, and you can buy any width from them, but 3" worked. A 6' piece is around $15-18. I made the hinge even with the top of the wing, with nothing standing proud in the airstream. (I have a couple of pairs of other widths that I would sell - my mistakes - if anyone is interested) I made the attachment screws spaced around 6" (some even number thaty did not land on any rib) there are 10 screws per hinge (10 on the wing, 10 on the aileron-OFFSET so that the heads do not touch!) I used 10-32 Tee nuts, and I squeezed them in with a c-clamp. I put a dab of T-88 on them to help hold them in, but at the last second, I added a small scrap of thin plywood, maybe 1/2" by 1-1/2" across each one with glue and a single nail on each side to make absolutely sure that when I put the screw in it will not push the Tee nut out the back. (and there is a hole in the middle for the screw to go through without touching) Of course, they are not self-locking, but the screws are a little extra long, so if they back out it will be obvious without any chance of actually coming out. The chance of ALL 10 screws backing out enough that something falls off before I notice it is . . . well . . . it ain't gonna happen. When I put the trailing edges on the aileron, I made the aileron trailing edge about 1/8 to 3/16 shy of the wing. I expect the layers of fabric and tapes that will be under the piano hinge will make up the difference and they should align. There has been so much discussion, I thought I'd throw this out. I don't expect mine is any different from most (except Jack). Gene Rambo warm enough to get about 3 more ribs stitched yesterday http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhttp://forums.matronics. comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution st" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List ttp://forums.matronics.com =_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: My new logo
From: "Billy McCaskill" <billmz(at)cox.net>
Date: Jan 02, 2011
Love the logo, Dan! Can't wait to see the finished product! How's your engine coming along? -------- Billy McCaskill Urbana, IL tail section almost done, starting on ribs soon Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325324#325324 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Build Log Survey
From: "Billy McCaskill" <billmz(at)cox.net>
Date: Jan 02, 2011
Spiral notebook and a pencil for me. Taking lots of photos too, but generally not posting them anywhere on the web at this point. -------- Billy McCaskill Urbana, IL tail section almost done, starting on ribs soon Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325326#325326 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Got My Fuselage Started
From: "Tucker" <Tucker(at)tuckerrice.net>
Date: Jan 02, 2011
I'm really excited now. Spent last week at my grandpa's (Captain) hangar and started building the fuselage. OK, it's just the mock-up fuselage, but we are building it to specifications with the correct size longerons and braces. That way I'll get more practice fitting the joints and discovering any problems before we do the real thing. Here are a couple of pictures. -------- Tucker Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325331#325331 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0011_158.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0007_199.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0006_107.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0009_122.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Build Log Survey
From: "coxwelljon" <coxwelljon(at)frontiernet.net>
Date: Jan 02, 2011
Binder, Pencil, Digital Photos. Not accessible on the web. -------- Jon Coxwell GN-1 Builder Recycle and preserve the planet Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325332#325332 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net>
Subject: Re: Got My Fuselage Started
Date: Jan 02, 2011
Makes me want to start all over again on my fuse. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tucker" <Tucker(at)tuckerrice.net> Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2011 4:16 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Got My Fuselage Started > > I'm really excited now. Spent last week at my grandpa's (Captain) hangar > and started building the fuselage. OK, it's just the mock-up fuselage, > but we are building it to specifications with the correct size longerons > and braces. That way I'll get more practice fitting the joints and > discovering any problems before we do the real thing. Here are a couple > of pictures. > > -------- > Tucker > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325331#325331 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0011_158.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0007_199.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0006_107.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0009_122.jpg > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 02, 2011
Subject: Re: Got My Fuselage Started
From: Earnest Bunbury <ebunburyesq(at)gmail.com>
Tucker- Very exciting! Thanks for keeping us updated. -Jeff On Sun, Jan 2, 2011 at 4:16 PM, Tucker wrote: > > I'm really excited now. Spent last week at my grandpa's (Captain) hangar > and started building the fuselage. OK, it's just the mock-up fuselage, but > we are building it to specifications with the correct size longerons and > braces. That way I'll get more practice fitting the joints and discovering > any problems before we do the real thing. Here are a couple of pictures. > > -------- > Tucker > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325331#325331 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0011_158.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0007_199.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0006_107.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0009_122.jpg > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 02, 2011
Subject: Re: Got My Fuselage Started
From: Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Wow, have never seen a full length fuselage mock cockpit, but its just scrap wood, why not? As I have said one of the best things about building a mock fuselage besides testing seating size and angles is learning how the whole thing goes together before you start cutting up the expensive wood. Off to a great start Tucker. And one other thing, turned upside down it makes a great landing gear building jig (I tack welded my parts which were bolted to it and if it started to burn I just dumped some water, or beer on the wood and keep welding), so don't throw it away too soon. rick On Sun, Jan 2, 2011 at 2:16 PM, Tucker wrote: > > I'm really excited now. Spent last week at my grandpa's (Captain) hangar > and started building the fuselage. OK, it's just the mock-up fuselage, but > we are building it to specifications with the correct size longerons and > braces. That way I'll get more practice fitting the joints and discovering > any problems before we do the real thing. Here are a couple of pictures. > > -------- > Tucker > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325331#325331 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0011_158.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0007_199.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0006_107.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0009_122.jpg > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Happy 2011 may 2010 go directly to well thats another
story
From: "coxwelljon" <coxwelljon(at)frontiernet.net>
Date: Jan 02, 2011
My heart felt sympathies go out to those who lost loved ones or suffered severe hardships or health issues during 2010. My wishes to all are for a much happier and prosperous 2011. For me 2010 was a good year but a transition year. My architectural business did see a decline, but that left more time to work on the GN-1 and the house. I took a great trip alone by car to Broadhead and had a great time camping, meeting great people, and making new friends. Many of which post on this forum. Broadhead also provided my first ride in a GN-1. I am looking forward to 2011 and perhaps the first flight of my GN-1 and perhaps working only part time at my business. Happy New Year to all. -------- Jon Coxwell GN-1 Builder Recycle and preserve the planet Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325360#325360 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Piets-GN1s
From: "coxwelljon" <coxwelljon(at)frontiernet.net>
Date: Jan 02, 2011
46 GN-1's registered -------- Jon Coxwell GN-1 Builder Recycle and preserve the planet Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325367#325367 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack" <jack(at)textors.com>
Subject: Got My Fuselage Started
Date: Jan 02, 2011
That's great Tucker. So far the fuselage has been the most enjoyable for me. Started on the gear over the holiday and it's been more challenging. A link to some of today's activity. http://textors.com/IMG_7529_1600x1067.jpg Take care Buddy! Jack DSM -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tucker Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2011 3:17 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Got My Fuselage Started I'm really excited now. Spent last week at my grandpa's (Captain) hangar and started building the fuselage. OK, it's just the mock-up fuselage, but we are building it to specifications with the correct size longerons and braces. That way I'll get more practice fitting the joints and discovering any problems before we do the real thing. Here are a couple of pictures. -------- Tucker Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325331#325331 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0011_158.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0007_199.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0006_107.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0009_122.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Got My Fuselage Started
From: "Tucker" <Tucker(at)tuckerrice.net>
Date: Jan 02, 2011
Yep. Tacking the landing gear is the #1 reason that we are building the mock-up. Captain said that whole fuselage only took $24 worth of 2x4's, which we ripped on the tablesaw, and we already had some scrap 1/8" & 1/4" plywood. Can't wait to sit in it. Tucker [quote="at7000ft"]Wow, have never seen a full length fuselage mock cockpit, but its just scrap wood, why not? As I have said one of the best things about building a mock fuselage besides testing seating size and angles is learning how the whole thing goes together before you start cutting up the expensive wood. Off to a great start Tucker. And one other thing, turned upside down it makes a great landing gear building jig (I tack welded my parts which were bolted to it and if it started to burn I just dumped some water, or beer on the wood and keep welding), so don't throw it away too soon. rick On Sun, Jan 2, 2011 at 2:16 PM, Tucker wrote: > > I'm really excited now. Spent last week at my grandpa's (Captain) hangar and started building the fuselage. OK, it's just the mock-up fuselage, but we are building it to specifications with the correct size longerons and braces. That way I'll get more practice fitting the joints and discovering any problems before we do the real thing. Here are a couple of pictures. > > -------- > Tucker > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325331#325331 (http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325331#325331) > > > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0011_158.jpg (http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0011_158.jpg) > http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0007_199.jpg (http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0007_199.jpg) > http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0006_107.jpg (http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0006_107.jpg) > http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0009_122.jpg (http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0009_122.jpg) > > > > > ========== > st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > ========== > http://forums.matronics.com > ========== > le, List Admin. > ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > ========== > > > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" > [b] -------- Tucker Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325372#325372 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 02, 2011
Subject: Merry Christmas and Thank You
From: Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com>
Sorry for the repost, just thought this really does need to be archived.... Ryan ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Gene & Tammy <zharvey(at)bentoncountycable.net> Date: Sat, Dec 25, 2010 at 7:33 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Merry Christmas and Thank You All, I wish to take a few moments and not only wish everyone a Merry Christmas, but to all, a very heart felt "Thank You" for your prayers. As Jack pointed out a few weeks ago, I am in a cancer trial that is currently putting my cancer (LeioMyoSarcoma) into remission. Very rare. There is no doubt in my mind that this is all coming about because of the prayers offered for me. I don't know how to properly thank you, but I just want you to know how much it has meant to me as I go thru the Chemo. I'm a fighter and not about to easily give up, so keep them coming! My wife and I are already planning on Broadhead 2011 (our first time there). As as soon as it warms up here I hope to start work on my shop,(it needs to be gutted and reworked, (shop is 24' X 55') getting it ready to start building. Hopefully by early summer. We'll see. The chemo is pretty hard on me but if I use the good days for building and the rough days for planning, I will make progress. I need to learn the art of wood grading and selection. I'll make the decision of which Piet I will build and what wood I will use after we attend Broadhead. I really miss N502R so it will probably be another long body, but I'm open minded. I fly every day I can (Kolb Firestar XKP), but so far, between chemo and the weather I haven't been up in several weeks. This is the best list there is. Keep it coming. Love the photos, questions and answers. So much good info coming across the screen on a daily basis. It has really helped me get thru the rough days and I learn so much. Thanks to all of you. You have been such a blessing to me. Gene In Beautiful (1/2" snow on the ground) Western Tennessee previous caretaker of N502R ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fwd: Where are you, Mike Glasgow?
From: "GliderMike" <glidermikeg(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Jan 03, 2011
Hi Tim, I was in Atlanta for the month of October, but am in Baton Rouge now. I'm working for Atlantic Southeast Airlines as an A&P at their facility here in Baton Rouge. I was offered the job in Baton Rouge, before they offered Atlanta, and they rescinded the Atlanta offer, when they found out the Baton Rouge manager had called me first. I might have liked Atlanta better, because Aircraft Spruce has the East Coast store there, and also, there is some paragliding on the east side of Atlanta, and hang gliding in Chattanooga. The way things are working out, I am probably better off in Baton Rouge. -------- HOMEBUILDER Will WORK for Spruce Long flights, smooth air, and soft landings, GliderMike, aka Mike Glasgow Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325413#325413 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Don Heringhaus" <don.h(at)wcoil.com>
Subject: Re: flying, finally
Date: Jan 03, 2011
Hey Dick better read up on carb ice its not just cold wx that causes it??? Temperature drops of 20 =B0C (36=B0F) or more are often encountered within the carburetor, so ice can build up even when the outside air temperature is well above freezing. Perhaps paradoxically, cold winter weather is less prone to icing, since cold air contains much less moisture. A warm day with high humidity is considered the most likely scenario for carburetor icing. Since there is less air acceleration through the carburetor at full-throttle operation, icing is usually not a problem then. Carburetor heat uses hot air drawn from the heat exchanger or heat stove (a metal plate around the exhaust manifold) to raise the temperature in the venturi section high enough to prevent or remove any ice buildup. Because hot air is less dense than cold air, engine power will drop when carburetor heat is used. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Got My Fuselage Started
From: "dgaldrich" <dgaldrich(at)embarqmail.com>
Date: Jan 03, 2011
Hi Tucker When you get the mock-up done, don't forget to sit in it and make airplane noises. Just make sure no-one can see or hear you. Of course, none of US has EVER done that..... Keep it up. You'll have it ready to solo when you turn 16 and that would be no small accomplishment. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325433#325433 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: flying, finally
From: "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca>
Date: Jan 03, 2011
Don, I think if you re-read Dick's post, the point he was making was that carb icing is actually LESS of a problem in cold (below freezing) winter air. Bill C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325440#325440 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Don Heringhaus" <don.h(at)wcoil.com>
Subject: Re: flying, finally
Date: Jan 03, 2011
SORRY Dick my bad as the younger folks say ''''I guess I didn't read your comment thru oh well when your over 50 ?60? 70 Thanks Bill for keeping us old coots in line Don ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC AEROSPACE CORP]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Date: Jan 03, 2011
Subject: carb ice, side note
Most certainly, humid days, warmer humid days are prime conditions for carb icing. Often times I'll land after flying in the summer time and you can actually see frost on the outside of the carb throat or tons of water droplets/condensation. If you put your hand on it, it feels like the carb was in a fridge ! I apply carb heat far more often than I probably should and am surprised I haven't worn out my carb heat cable yet but I'd rather over-do the heat that get caught behind with some ice build up. Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 03, 2011
From: airlion <airlion(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: carb ice, side note
Right on Michael. I have my throttle right next to my carb heat cable and anytime I pull the throttle back the carb heat comes on. Gardiner ----- Original Message ---- From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC AEROSPACE CORP]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov> Sent: Mon, January 3, 2011 12:43:54 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: carb ice, side note CORP]" Most certainly, humid days, warmer humid days are prime conditions for carb icing. Often times I'll land after flying in the summer time and you can actually see frost on the outside of the carb throat or tons of water droplets/condensation. If you put your hand on it, it feels like the carb was in a fridge ! I apply carb heat far more often than I probably should and am surprised I haven't worn out my carb heat cable yet but I'd rather over-do the heat that get caught behind with some ice build up. Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings
From: "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca>
Date: Jan 03, 2011
Hey Jack, I'm still having difficulty understanding what you mean by the gear fittings being "slanted". Can you explain more betterer? Anyway, regarding the parts you made - they look pretty good to me. I can't see the cracking you're talking about, so I assume it must be very minor. Probably very localized at the relief holes. If that's the case, then the cracks will get swallowed up and repaired by the welds, since the drawings call for a lot of welding on these little pieces. On the other hand, if the cracking is all along the 110 degree bend, then you've over-stressed the metal (too small a bend radius), and you effectively have two pieces rather than one. The assembly sketch in the drawing DOES look like the side fitting is made in two pieces, but I think that's just an illusion. The pieces you have made appear to match the drawings. I'm not really sure why the drawings appear to show welding on the inside of the bend, though, since it won't really add any strength. I understand welding on the sides of the tab, but not across the bend, which the drawing seems to show. For now, I think I'll just chalk that up to a sixteen year-old kid doing the drawings. Bill C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325476#325476 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack" <jack(at)textors.com>
Subject: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear
fittings
Date: Jan 03, 2011
Bill, Hope this is betterer. I have two sets of plans and both show the parts slanted to the left. I think you can see in the attached picture. I was thinking this was for the curve of the bottom longeron. I made one up curved and it didn't fit as well as the straight pair I made up. It is two pieces. Honestly I don't like the design and plan to alter a bit. 110 degrees is too much with any decent radius. The bottom will be .125 4130, side and tab .090. Now my next question... What is the 1/4" hole for on ONLY the left front fitting? Thanks for your input! Back to you, Jack DSM -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Church Sent: Monday, January 03, 2011 2:29 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings Hey Jack, I'm still having difficulty understanding what you mean by the gear fittings being "slanted". Can you explain more betterer? Anyway, regarding the parts you made - they look pretty good to me. I can't see the cracking you're talking about, so I assume it must be very minor. Probably very localized at the relief holes. If that's the case, then the cracks will get swallowed up and repaired by the welds, since the drawings call for a lot of welding on these little pieces. On the other hand, if the cracking is all along the 110 degree bend, then you've over-stressed the metal (too small a bend radius), and you effectively have two pieces rather than one. The assembly sketch in the drawing DOES look like the side fitting is made in two pieces, but I think that's just an illusion. The pieces you have made appear to match the drawings. I'm not really sure why the drawings appear to show welding on the inside of the bend, though, since it won't really add any strength. I understand welding on the sides of the tab, but not across the bend, which the drawing seems to show. For now, I think I'll just chalk ! that up to a sixteen year-old kid doing the drawings. Bill C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325476#325476 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "AmsafetyC(at)aol.com" <AmsafetyC(at)aol.com>
Date: Jan 03, 2011
Subject: W&B article
Ryan Nice job on the article it certainly provokes thought in deciding wing and gear placement and relationship. So for basic build how would suggest determining best location at the bare fuze level of construction? John Sent via DROID on Verizon Wireless ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick N" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: flying, finally
Date: Jan 03, 2011
Don You and others said more clearly what I had intended on. A clear day at 25 degrees is much more prefferable than a day at 50 degrees with haze. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: Don Heringhaus To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, January 03, 2011 9:30 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: flying, finally Hey Dick better read up on carb ice its not just cold wx that causes it??? Temperature drops of 20 =B0C (36=B0F) or more are often encountered within the carburetor, so ice can build up even when the outside air temperature is well above freezing. Perhaps paradoxically, cold winter weather is less prone to icing, since cold air contains much less moisture. A warm day with high humidity is considered the most likely scenario for carburetor icing. Since there is less air acceleration through the carburetor at full-throttle operation, icing is usually not a problem then. Carburetor heat uses hot air drawn from the heat exchanger or heat stove (a metal plate around the exhaust manifold) to raise the temperature in the venturi section high enough to prevent or remove any ice buildup. Because hot air is less dense than cold air, engine power will drop when carburetor heat is used. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Clif Dawson" <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: flying, finally
Date: Jan 03, 2011
This chart may scare the pants off you! :-) Here's a temp conversion chart to go with it. It works both ways. http://www.wbuf.noaa.gov/tempfc.htm Clif ----- Original Message ----- From: Don Heringhaus Hey Dick better read up on carb ice its not just cold wx that causes it??? Perhaps paradoxically, cold winter weather is less prone to icing, since cold air contains much less moisture. A warm day with high humidity is considered the most likely scenario for carburetor icing. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Got My Fuselage Started
From: "coxwelljon" <coxwelljon(at)frontiernet.net>
Date: Jan 03, 2011
Add to the excitement by putting one of those big square house fans up front to blow wind in your face. Great for testing your windscreen position. Keep it up Tucker! You are doing a great job. -------- Jon Coxwell GN-1 Builder Recycle and preserve the planet Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325521#325521 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Build Log Survey
From: "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net>
Date: Jan 03, 2011
My link is in my signature. The software was $50 and if you are a digital photo person it is a no brainer. This type of software not only allows you to share your progress with family and friends, but it keeps a running tally on your time, materials, expenses, vendors, helpers, contacts, etc. All of it in a database that can be saved and backed up. No, you can't shove notes in the back of this "three-ring binder", but you will likely accumulate a variety of paper and electronic notes during the build process. Make life easy and keep an electronic log. One more really nice thing... when it comes time for inspections, the electronic log prints out in an organized and easy to read format. I have a great Uncle that worked in the aerospace industry... he loves keeping up with my log on the web. -------- Mark Chouinard Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325527#325527 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings
From: "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net>
Date: Jan 03, 2011
Please, no PMs... "litter" the list... others are interested too. -------- Mark Chouinard Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325529#325529 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings
From: "899PM" <rockriverrifle(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Jan 04, 2011
I never noticed that "left slant" before....probably a decent attempt at the drafting table to "unwrap" the compound curve in the fuselage.....and obviously applicable to only one side. Make 'em straight and don't look back! -------- PAPA MIKE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325548#325548 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings
From: "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca>
Date: Jan 04, 2011
Okay Jack, I think I see your point now (or at least more bettererly than before). My interpretation is that the parts are not intended to be out of square. I took a close look at my copy of the plans, with a draftsman's square in hand, and it seems that very few of the corners are actually square. Even the border around the sheet is not at 90 degree angles - which could be for a few reasons - one of which is that the printing is a bit skewed, and another is that the draftsman wasn't a stickler for details. By nature, draftsmen SHOULD be sticklers for details, since that's the main purpose of their work, but in this case, since the plans were drawn up by an 18-year old amateur, 80 years ago (probably on a kitchen table) I think we'll be a little less critical. I can think of no reason why the corners would NOT be intended to be square. The fuselage sides are parallel in this area, and the brackets are there to attach the lift struts, which should be parallel to each other, and square to the fuselage (until the wing gets shifted, at least). I think your parts look just fine. Once you weld the pieces together, I think your concerns will have disappeared. If you make the side fittings out of two pieces, you will be relying solely on your welding to hold the two pieces together. As for your new question, if you look at the bottom view of the landing gear (upper right hand corner of Drawing No.3), you will notice that the shock struts cross each other. In order for this to work, one strut must be in front of the other. Since the axles are aligned, the offset must be at the top end, where they meet the fuselage. When this happens, the lug for the left front fitting will cover up the standard mounting hole - therefore the hole needs to be moved for that particular fitting. See the attached detail. Bill C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325561#325561 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/gear_136.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 04, 2011
From: "TOM STINEMETZE" <TOMS(at)mcpcity.com>
Subject: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings
Quite true Bill but also note the callout at the axle end which states that "Shock Strut ends offset so they will pass at center." I found out the hard way that this is quite necessary (i.e. offset at both top and bottom.) As soon as the paint dries so I can reinstall all the parts, I plan to post a photo or two of N328X up on it's split gear for the very first time. Tom Stinemetze >>> "Bill Church" 1/4/2011 10:57 AM >>> As for your new question, if you look at the bottom view of the landing gear (upper right hand corner of Drawing No.3), you will notice that the shock struts cross each other. In order for this to work, one strut must be in front of the other. Since the axles are aligned, the offset must be at the top end, where they meet the fuselage. When this happens, the lug for the left front fitting will cover up the standard mounting hole - therefore the hole needs to be moved for that particular fitting. See the attached detail. Bill C. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings
From: "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca>
Date: Jan 04, 2011
Good point, Tom. The strut connections down at the axles are also offset slightly. You do need to look pretty closely to notice it, but it's there. When I read that note, I assumed the note was referring to the upper connections only, but it does refer to the axle ends as well. Bill C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325575#325575 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Fuselage finally rolling
From: "Jerry Dotson" <jdotson(at)centurylink.net>
Date: Jan 04, 2011
I thought I was never going to get done with the landing gear. Finally got er done. My son is making (rolling) copper hubcaps for me. Different. -------- Jerry Dotson 59 Daniel Johnson Rd Baker, FL 32531 Started building NX510JD July, 2009 wing, tailfeathers done using Lycoming O-235 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325589#325589 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/on_the_wheels_1_204.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/on_the_wheels_172.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Fuselage finally rolling
Date: Jan 04, 2011
Very nice, Jerry. Take heart from the fact that the landing gear is absolutely the most challenging part of the entire project (closely followed by making the windshield frames, if you go that route). Your project is really looking nice (of course I'm somewhat prejudiced towards straight axles and wire wheels). Looking forward to seeing it at Brodheadin the next couple of years. Jack Phillips NX899JP "Icarus Plummet" Raleigh, NC -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jerry Dotson Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2011 4:38 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage finally rolling I thought I was never going to get done with the landing gear. Finally got er done. My son is making (rolling) copper hubcaps for me. Different. -------- Jerry Dotson 59 Daniel Johnson Rd Baker, FL 32531 Started building NX510JD July, 2009 wing, tailfeathers done using Lycoming O-235 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325589#325589 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/on_the_wheels_1_204.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/on_the_wheels_172.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net>
Subject: Trigonometry Program
Date: Jan 04, 2011
I think it was back when we were discussing dihedral that someone put on a post with a trig program that figures angles and sides automatically. I inadvertently deleted mine. Can the person who did it before do it again? This time I'll do something to keep it permanently. Thanks, Chuck ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fuselage finally rolling
From: "AlRice" <Allen(at)allenrice.net>
Date: Jan 04, 2011
Really looking good Jerry. Your progress should really start moving now. -------- Al Rice Skybolt 260 RV-9A Helping with my grandson's Piet Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325602#325602 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 04, 2011
From: Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Trigonometry Program
Try: google.com There are quite a few online "triginometry calculators" available. jm -----Original Message----- From: Charles Campbell Sent: Jan 4, 2011 4:11 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Trigonometry Program I think it was back when we were discussing dihedral that someone put on a post with a trig program that figures angles and sides automatically. I inadvertently deleted mine. Can the person who did it before do it again? This time I'll do something to keep it permanently. Thanks, Chuck ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Nice project for the right person...
From: "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com>
Date: Jan 04, 2011
Might not be a bad project for the right person.... http://www.aircraftpartsandsalvage.com/blog/pietenpol-project/2011/01/ Don Emch NX899DE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325611#325611 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 04, 2011
From: shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: First Bell airplane
Sorry if this is not directly Piet related, but I just came by this picture of my dad (Gary, and a young 20 yrs old)-while he was home on leave from Vietnam, with my Grandfather, and geting a chance to fly the Spezio Tu-Hol er he helped my Grandfather build in the late 1960's-early 70's. - Shad - -=0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 04, 2011
From: Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: First Bell airplane
"Directly" Piet related or not...that's a great picture. thanks for sharing it.... jm -----Original Message----- From: shad bell Sent: Jan 4, 2011 8:44 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: First Bell airplane Sorry if this is not directly Piet related, but I just came by this picture of my dad (Gary, and a young 20 yrs old) while he was home on leave from Vietnam, with my Grandfather, and geting a chance to fly the Spezio Tu-Holer he helped my Grandfather build in the late 1960's-early 70's. Shad ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Clif Dawson" <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: flying, finally
Date: Jan 05, 2011
Yes, but don't forget the thing five months from now. :-) Clif > Ref the above chart, please note that at 0 C with an 8 degree > temperature-dewpoint spread (NOT uncommon in winter), carb ice is not a > problem. > Dave ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack" <jack(at)textors.com>
Subject: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear
fittings
Date: Jan 05, 2011
Agreed on all counts! I forgot about the offset and still a little concerned if there is enough clearance. Changing my thinking once again on the brackets...Planning to incorporate the bottom plates and metal crosspiece that passes under the floor. The side plates and a doubler on the piece that connects to the wing struts will be the only welds. Thanks Bill! Jack DSM -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Church Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2011 10:58 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings Okay Jack, I think I see your point now (or at least more bettererly than before). My interpretation is that the parts are not intended to be out of square. I took a close look at my copy of the plans, with a draftsman's square in hand, and it seems that very few of the corners are actually square. Even the border around the sheet is not at 90 degree angles - which could be for a few reasons - one of which is that the printing is a bit skewed, and another is that the draftsman wasn't a stickler for details. By nature, draftsmen SHOULD be sticklers for details, since that's the main purpose of their work, but in this case, since the plans were drawn up by an 18-year old amateur, 80 years ago (probably on a kitchen table) I think we'll be a little less critical. I can think of no reason why the corners would NOT be intended to be square. The fuselage sides are parallel in this area, and the brackets are there to attach the lift struts, which should be parallel to each other, and square to the fuselage (until the wing gets shifted, at least). I think your parts look just fine. Once you weld the pieces together, I think your concerns will have disappeared. If you make the side fittings out of two pieces, you will be relying solely on your welding to hold the two pieces together. As for your new question, if you look at the bottom view of the landing gear (upper right hand corner of Drawing No.3), you will notice that the shock struts cross each other. In order for this to work, one strut must be in front of the other. Since the axles are aligned, the offset must be at the top end, where they meet the fuselage. When this happens, the lug for the left front fitting will cover up the standard mounting hole - therefore the hole needs to be moved for that particular fitting. See the attached detail. Bill C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325561#325561 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/gear_136.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack" <jack(at)textors.com>
Subject: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear
fittings
Date: Jan 05, 2011
Yes thanks Tom, and looking forward to some pictures. The plans call for 5/16" tab on the bottom. Have not found any of that stock in 4130, may have to go with 1018?? Jack DSM -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Church Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2011 12:24 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings Good point, Tom. The strut connections down at the axles are also offset slightly. You do need to look pretty closely to notice it, but it's there. When I read that note, I assumed the note was referring to the upper connections only, but it does refer to the axle ends as well. Bill C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325575#325575 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings
From: "Dangerous Dave" <dsornbor(at)aol.com>
Date: Jan 05, 2011
Jack,just one more tidbit on the gear.In order to have the axle even with the leading edge of the wing all of these angles are different.The plans shown are for a no brake setup and if you make them as shown they will be way to far back from the leading edge and if you apply brakes you will groundloop on occasion,kind of a bummer.Dave There is a good article in latest BPA newsletter addressing this issue -------- Covering Piet Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325641#325641 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 05, 2011
From: "TOM STINEMETZE" <TOMS(at)mcpcity.com>
Subject: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings
Yes, I got my copy of the newsletter and read that article last evening - just after I completed my gear to the dimensions shown on the Hoopman plans. Guess what needs to be built again! Aaarrruuuggg! It does make sense to move the axles forward as explained by William Wynne in that very informative article. Tapping on the brakes and going over on the nose does not seem like such a fun experience. Also will help with the weight and balance as that relatively heavy landing gear moves further forward of the CG. Next time, though - PLEASE write the article BEFORE I build it! I'm going to install the current gear now anyway so I can move on to other things for a while. BUT - I am convinced that shifting the axles forward is the right thing to do. Stinemetze N328X >>> "Dangerous Dave" 1/5/2011 6:09 AM >>> Jack,just one more tidbit on the gear.In order to have the axle even with the leading edge of the wing all of these angles are different.The plans shown are for a no brake setup and if you make them as shown they will be way to far back from the leading edge and if you apply brakes you will groundloop on occasion,kind of a bummer.Dave There is a good article in latest BPA newsletter addressing this issue ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: New guy with Model A questions
From: "DOMIT" <rx7_ragtop(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Jan 05, 2011
Hi folks, I just joined this list (although I've lurked around and read various topics for a while.) I'm here to learn more about the Model A conversions. I'm not building a Piet, my interest is in WWI fighter aircraft replicas, much like the Graham Lee Nieuport replicas. I and some others with similar interests have been looking for a long time for an appropriate engine to use in reduced scale replicas with inline engines. We keep coming back to the proven Model A conversions. I'd appreciate any and all information on specifics. In particular, engine weight, prop selection, approximate real-world operating numbers such as thrust, operating RPM ranges, speed range on the Piet (because while the project we're working on is only single-place and empty weight is similar, gross will be less but drag a bit higher due to all the wires- even though wingspan is a bit less it is a biplane) what modifications are good and what to avoid, and sources for parts. I've already found a lot of good information on here, but I think since it is a Piet-specific online community here there are some presumptions that folks already "just know" some of the things that I have questions about. So, here are a few specific questions that I hope someone with actual experience with the A/B conversions can help with. What is the real, observed cruise and max speed of a model A equipped Piet? At what RPM and with what prop? What modifications to the engine to get those numbers? What I've found so far was mention of 76x42 to 76x46 prop (and the one with the "monster" modded one with at 76x56???) turning just under 2000 RPM for the first two in static tests... what do those unload to in the air? (RPM that is) What is the normal "cruise" RPM? RPM on full throttle climbout? WHICH prop? (What company makes it?) Insert or babbitt? Pressure oiling or dip? Single mag, dual mags, point ignition, or electronic? (I need to avoid the last 2... I'm under the umbrella of DFW so I want to avoid an engine driven electrical system and hence the transponder.) I've found a virtually unlimited supply of cores (Model T Haven in Iola, KS, which happens to be about a 15 minute drive from my dad's home... easy "side trip" on a visit for me.) I've been there... they have PILES of cores. The aircraft we're working on should have about the same operating speed range as I believe the Piet does... 90-ish mph top speed, probably 850# gross weight, a bit more wing area and wire drag though. Information on what folks are doing on the Piet with the A or B should give us a good tool to make a S.W.A.G. at the prop selection and mods to make to have this work in our project. The guy doing the actual design is a real, honest-to-goodness rocket scientist... a safety engineer on the shuttle program who has retired from NASA and now consults, so I'm comfortable with whatever he decides. He's asking me for "real world" numbers on the engine to be sure it meets the needs of this project. Thanks in advance for any help! Brad -------- First rule of ground school: This is the ground... don't hit it going fast. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325661#325661 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Nice project for the right person...
From: "Billy McCaskill" <billmz(at)cox.net>
Date: Jan 05, 2011
This looks like Dan Plett's airplane... What happened, Dan? -------- Billy McCaskill Urbana, IL tail section almost done, starting on ribs soon Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325666#325666 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 05, 2011
Subject: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear
fittings
From: Kimball Isaac <kim.integrity(at)gmail.com>
Not sure if I'm right but I thought ground looping is worse the farther forward the gear is but we compromise slightly so we don't nose over when braking. Tell me if I'm wrong On 2011-01-05 4:14 AM, "Dangerous Dave" wrote: > > > Jack,just one more tidbit on the gear.In order to have the axle even with the leading edge of the wing all of these angles are different.The plans shown are for a no brake setup and if you make them as shown they will be way to far back from the leading edge and if you apply brakes you will groundloop on occasion,kind of a bummer.Dave > There is a good article in latest BPA newsletter addressing this issue > > -------- > Covering Piet > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325641#325641 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 05, 2011
Subject: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear
fittings
From: Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
But I believe the tendency to ground loop is decreased as the distance between the mains and tail-wheel increase (can ask Pitts drivers about that). rick On Wed, Jan 5, 2011 at 9:17 AM, Kimball Isaac wrote: > Not sure if I'm right but I thought ground looping is worse the farther > forward the gear is but we compromise slightly so we don't nose over when > braking. Tell me if I'm wrong > On 2011-01-05 4:14 AM, "Dangerous Dave" wrote: > > > > > > > > Jack,just one more tidbit on the gear.In order to have the axle even with > the leading edge of the wing all of these angles are different.The plans > shown are for a no brake setup and if you make them as shown they will be > way to far back from the leading edge and if you apply brakes you will > groundloop on occasion,kind of a bummer.Dave > > There is a good article in latest BPA newsletter addressing this issue > > > > -------- > > Covering Piet > > > > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325641#325641 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ============ > ol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > ============ > .matronics.com > ============ > Dralle, List Admin. > p://www.matronics.com/contribution > ============ > > > > > > > > * > > * > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack" <jack(at)textors.com>
Subject: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear
fittings
Date: Jan 05, 2011
Tom, I will give $25 for your old gear. Just kidding! That is a bummer, guess I'm glad I move at a slow pace. I've RE-built fittings, horns, pedals many times; hopefully I will do the V's once! But I doubt it. Take care Buddy! Jack DSM _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of TOM STINEMETZE Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 8:16 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings Yes, I got my copy of the newsletter and read that article last evening - just after I completed my gear to the dimensions shown on the Hoopman plans. Guess what needs to be built again! Aaarrruuuggg! It does make sense to move the axles forward as explained by William Wynne in that very informative article. Tapping on the brakes and going over on the nose does not seem like such a fun experience. Also will help with the weight and balance as that relatively heavy landing gear moves further forward of the CG. Next time, though - PLEASE write the article BEFORE I build it! I'm going to install the current gear now anyway so I can move on to other things for a while. BUT - I am convinced that shifting the axles forward is the right thing to do. Stinemetze N328X >>> "Dangerous Dave" 1/5/2011 6:09 AM >>> Jack,just one more tidbit on the gear.In order to have the axle even with the leading edge of the wing all of these angles are different.The plans shown are for a no brake setup and if you make them as shown they will be way to far back from the leading edge and if you apply brakes you will groundloop on occasion,kind of a bummer.Dave There is a good article in latest BPA newsletter addressing this issue ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: New guy with Model A questions
From: "899PM" <rockriverrifle(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Jan 05, 2011
Brad, Call me sometime.....nine two zero seven two eight zero six three zero. Far too much info to put into written form. -------- PAPA MIKE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325684#325684 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: New guy with Model A questions
From: "899PM" <rockriverrifle(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Jan 05, 2011
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5R8OvAmG7Q http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eR5zvfJ8PQ4&feature=related -------- PAPA MIKE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325685#325685 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 05, 2011
From: "TOM STINEMETZE" <TOMS(at)mcpcity.com>
Subject: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear
fittings Jack: Anybody who would offer to pay $25 for anything welded by me has to be a little loopy. I bet I can do the next set better due the experience with the first set though. Tom >>> "Jack" 1/5/2011 12:14 PM >>> Tom, I will give $25 for your old gear. Just kidding! That is a bummer, guess Im glad I move at a slow pace. Ive RE-built fittings, horns, pedals many times; hopefully I will do the Vs once! But I doubt it Take care Buddy! Jack DSM ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 05, 2011
From: Jim Boyer <boyerjrb(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: First Bell airplane
Hi Shad, That is a good looking Spezio. I had a friend in Clark, SD that was building one. Hope his turned out so well. Jim B. ----- Original Message ----- From: "shad bell" <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com> Sent: Tuesday, January 4, 2011 6:44:30 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: First Bell airplane Sorry if this is not directly Piet related, but I just came by this picture of my dad (Gary, and a young 20 yrs old)while he was home on leave from Vietnam, with my Grandfather, and geting a chance to fly the Spezio Tu-Holer he helped my Grandfather build in the late 1960's-early 70's. Shad ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <aa5flyer(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear
fittings
Date: Jan 05, 2011
Any chance that I could get a copy of this article. I=99m getting ready to build my gear. I=99ve joined the BPA, but did not receive the newsletters due to seasonal moving. Would rejoin if the newsletter was available online. Tim White From: TOM STINEMETZE Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 9:16 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings Yes, I got my copy of the newsletter and read that article last evening - just after I completed my gear to the dimensions shown on the Hoopman plans. Guess what needs to be built again! Aaarrruuuggg! It does make sense to move the axles forward as explained by William Wynne in that very informative article. Tapping on the brakes and going over on the nose does not seem like such a fun experience. Also will help with the weight and balance as that relatively heavy landing gear moves further forward of the CG. Next time, though - PLEASE write the article BEFORE I build it! I'm going to install the current gear now anyway so I can move on to other things for a while. BUT - I am convinced that shifting the axles forward is the right thing to do. Stinemetze N328X >>> "Dangerous Dave" 1/5/2011 6:09 AM >>> Jack,just one more tidbit on the gear.In order to have the axle even with the leading edge of the wing all of these angles are different.The plans shown are for a no brake setup and if you make them as shown they will be way to far back from the leading edge and if you apply brakes you will groundloop on occasion,kind of a bummer.Dave There is a good article in latest BPA newsletter addressing this issue ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 05, 2011
From: "TOM STINEMETZE" <TOMS(at)mcpcity.com>
Subject: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear
fittings Tim: It would be easy to scan the article and e-mail it BUT - - I checked my copy over the lunch hour and there is a fairly clear copyright notice in there that tells me not to. If you would contact the editor I bet something could be worked out. I expect the article to show up on the www.flycorvair.com site also but it does not appear to be there yet. Stinemetze >>> 1/5/2011 2:24 PM >>> Any chance that I could get a copy of this article. Im getting ready to build my gear. Ive joined the BPA, but did not receive the newsletters due to seasonal moving. Would rejoin if the newsletter was available online. Tim White ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net>
Subject: Re: W&B article
Date: Jan 05, 2011
John, sounds like you are at about the same stage as I am. I'm going to wait for the BPA article on W&B on the Corvair powered planes. Then I will use the measurements that WW suggests as to the placement of the wing. I gather that if the leading edge of the wing is directly over the axel center line then CG will probably be correct. I'll find out when the new article comes out. (Unless I bug WW for the info before hand) Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: AmsafetyC(at)aol.com To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, January 03, 2011 8:59 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: W&B article Ryan Nice job on the article it certainly provokes thought in deciding wing and gear placement and relationship. So for basic build how would suggest determining best location at the bare fuze level of construction? John Sent via DROID on Verizon Wireless =B7>~?=ED=B2,=DE=03g(-S=D3M=D3Gq=A2z=C1=AE ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net>
Subject: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear
fittings
Date: Jan 05, 2011
I could scan the article and put it on as an attachment if you would like. Let me know. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: aa5flyer(at)gmail.com To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 3:24 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings Any chance that I could get a copy of this article. I=99m getting ready to build my gear. I=99ve joined the BPA, but did not receive the newsletters due to seasonal moving. Would rejoin if the newsletter was available online. Tim White From: TOM STINEMETZE Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 9:16 AM To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings Yes, I got my copy of the newsletter and read that article last evening - just after I completed my gear to the dimensions shown on the Hoopman plans. Guess what needs to be built again! Aaarrruuuggg! It does make sense to move the axles forward as explained by William Wynne in that very informative article. Tapping on the brakes and going over on the nose does not seem like such a fun experience. Also will help with the weight and balance as that relatively heavy landing gear moves further forward of the CG. Next time, though - PLEASE write the article BEFORE I build it! I'm going to install the current gear now anyway so I can move on to other things for a while. BUT - I am convinced that shifting the axles forward is the right thing to do. Stinemetze N328X >>> "Dangerous Dave" 1/5/2011 6:09 AM >>> Jack,just one more tidbit on the gear.In order to have the axle even with the leading edge of the wing all of these angles are different.The plans shown are for a no brake setup and if you make them as shown they will be way to far back from the leading edge and if you apply brakes you will groundloop on occasion,kind of a bummer.Dave There is a good article in latest BPA newsletter addressing this issue href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 05, 2011
Subject: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear
fittings
From: Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com>
Now, of all the things to put up without permission....come on now. Tim, I just moved recently and didn't get my copy either as I forgot to update m y address. Shot Dee and Doc an email and it showed up the other day. If you are a BPA member, just send them a quick note and I'm sure they will send one out. Their email: bpan(at)tds.net And if not a member....well....it's the best $16 you'll ever spend! :P Ryan On Wed, Jan 5, 2011 at 3:42 PM, Charles Campbell wrote: > I could scan the article and put it on as an attachment if you would > like. Let me know. Chuck > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* aa5flyer(at)gmail.com > *To:* pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > *Sent:* Wednesday, January 05, 2011 3:24 PM > *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding split > axle gear fittings > > *Any chance that I could get a copy of this article. I=92m getting read y > to build my gear. I=92ve joined the BPA, but did not receive the newslet ters > due to seasonal moving. Would rejoin if the newsletter was available > online.* > ** > *Tim White* > > *From:* TOM STINEMETZE > *Sent:* Wednesday, January 05, 2011 9:16 AM > *To:* pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle > gear fittings > > *Yes, I got my copy of the newsletter and read that article last evening > - just after I completed my gear to the dimensions shown on the Hoopman > plans. Guess what needs to be built again! Aaarrruuuggg! It does make > sense to move the axles forward as explained by William Wynne in that ver y > informative article. Tapping on the brakes and going over on the nose do es > not seem like such a fun experience. Also will help with the weight and > balance as that relatively heavy landing gear moves further forward of th e > CG. Next time, though - PLEASE write the article BEFORE I build it!* > ** > *I'm going to install the current gear now anyway so I can move on to > other things for a while. BUT - I am convinced that shifting the axles > forward is the right thing to do.* > ** > *Stinemetze* > *N328X* > > > >>> "Dangerous Dave" 1/5/2011 6:09 AM >>> > Jack,just one more tidbit on the gear.In order to have the axle even with > the leading edge of the wing all of these angles are different.The plans > shown are for a no brake setup and if you make them as shown they will be > way to far back from the leading edge and if you apply brakes you will > groundloop on occasion,kind of a bummer.Dave > There is a good article in latest BPA newsletter addressing this issue > > * > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c * > > * > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c * > > * > =========== > =========== =========== =========== > > * > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net>
Subject: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear
fittings
Date: Jan 05, 2011
Disregard my last post. I never considered the copyright issue. Why don't you E-mail Doc Moser at bpan(at)tds.net and ask if you can buy a copy of the magazine. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: aa5flyer(at)gmail.com To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 3:24 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings Any chance that I could get a copy of this article. I=99m getting ready to build my gear. I=99ve joined the BPA, but did not receive the newsletters due to seasonal moving. Would rejoin if the newsletter was available online. Tim White From: TOM STINEMETZE Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 9:16 AM To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings Yes, I got my copy of the newsletter and read that article last evening - just after I completed my gear to the dimensions shown on the Hoopman plans. Guess what needs to be built again! Aaarrruuuggg! It does make sense to move the axles forward as explained by William Wynne in that very informative article. Tapping on the brakes and going over on the nose does not seem like such a fun experience. Also will help with the weight and balance as that relatively heavy landing gear moves further forward of the CG. Next time, though - PLEASE write the article BEFORE I build it! I'm going to install the current gear now anyway so I can move on to other things for a while. BUT - I am convinced that shifting the axles forward is the right thing to do. Stinemetze N328X >>> "Dangerous Dave" 1/5/2011 6:09 AM >>> Jack,just one more tidbit on the gear.In order to have the axle even with the leading edge of the wing all of these angles are different.The plans shown are for a no brake setup and if you make them as shown they will be way to far back from the leading edge and if you apply brakes you will groundloop on occasion,kind of a bummer.Dave There is a good article in latest BPA newsletter addressing this issue href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________________________________________________________
From: AMsafetyC(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 05, 2011
Subject: Re: W&B article
Right now that's exactly where I am at, working from my plans the axle centerline is supposed to be 17 inches behind the fire wall and that match es up well with the bracing and supports of the fuz construction. So I am hopin g I have it properly positioned, except for one additional factor which I am a Bernard plus size pilot who world like to bring a willing passenger on occasion. So although I continue to fight the loosing battle of loosing personal gravity I need to consider design compensations as part of the package. Looking at all aspects and aspect relationships at the moment loving the project and anxious to fly all at the same time. John Do no archive unless you too are gravity enhanced! In a message dated 1/5/2011 4:08:20 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, cncampbell(at)windstream.net writes: John, sounds like you are at about the same stage as I am. I'm going to wait for the BPA article on W&B on the Corvair powered planes. Then I wi ll use the measurements that WW suggests as to the placement of the wing. I gather that if the leading edge of the wing is directly over the axel cen ter line then CG will probably be correct. I'll find out when the new articl e comes out. (Unless I bug WW for the info before hand) Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: _AmsafetyC(at)aol.com_ (mailto:AmsafetyC(at)aol.com) Sent: Monday, January 03, 2011 8:59 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: W&B article Ryan Nice job on the article it certainly provokes thought in deciding wing an d gear placement and relationship. So for basic build how would suggest determining best location at the bare fuze level of construction? John Sent via DROID on Verizon Wireless =C2=C2=B7=BA~=B0=C3=AD=C2=B2,=C3=9E=03g(=93=C5-=C3 =93M=C3=93Gq=C2=A2z=C3=81=C2=AE ======================== ============ (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List) ======================== ============ ======================== ============ (http://www.matronics.com/contribution) ======================== ============ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 05, 2011
Subject: Re: W&B article
From: Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com>
Hey John, Sorry, busy at work. What mods have you made to your fuselage beyond the plans? Wider, deeper, etc? That may throw things off enough to make the plans location nothing more than a starting point. You might consider doing a rough mock-up LG installation for the time being at the plans location, and the forget about the CG until you have your fuselage ready to cover. If you have a pretty well stock wing you can guesstimate that weight....weigh the fuse on the mock gear and use the maths to account for the wing, would probably give you a pretty close approximation of where the wing needs to go. Fabricate your final gear setup in the appropriate position in relation to the wing, then install the wing. Hopefully final W&B would have you pretty darn close. Ryan On Wed, Jan 5, 2011 at 4:48 PM, wrote: > Right now that's exactly where I am at, working from my plans the axle > centerline is supposed to be 17 inches behind the fire wall and that matc hes > up well with the bracing and supports of the fuz construction. So I am > hoping I have it properly positioned, except for one additional factor wh ich > I am a Bernard plus size pilot who world like to bring a willing passenge r > on occasion. So although I continue to fight the loosing battle of loosin g > personal gravity I need to consider design compensations as part of the > package. > > Looking at all aspects and aspect relationships at the moment loving the > project and anxious to fly all at the same time. > > John > > Do no archive unless you too are gravity enhanced! > > In a message dated 1/5/2011 4:08:20 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > cncampbell(at)windstream.net writes: > > John, sounds like you are at about the same stage as I am. I'm going to > wait for the BPA article on W&B on the Corvair powered planes. Then I wi ll > use the measurements that WW suggests as to the placement of the wing. I > gather that if the leading edge of the wing is directly over the axel cen ter > line then CG will probably be correct. I'll find out when the new articl e > comes out. (Unless I bug WW for the info before hand) Chuck > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* AmsafetyC(at)aol.com > *To:* pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > *Sent:* Monday, January 03, 2011 8:59 PM > *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: W&B article > > Ryan > > Nice job on the article it certainly provokes thought in deciding wing an d > gear placement and relationship. So for basic build how would suggest > determining best location at the bare fuze level of construction? > > John > > *Sent via DROID on Verizon Wireless* > =C2=C2=B7=BA~=B0=C3=AD=C2=B2,=C3=9E g(=93=C5-=C3 =93M=C3=93Gq=C2=A2z=C3=81=C2=AE > > * > > ======================== =========== > t href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.m atronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > > ======================== ============ms.matronics.com/">http://forums.matron ics.com > ======================== =========== > tp://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contributio n > ======================== =========== > > * > > * > =========== =========== =========== =========== > * > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 05, 2011
From: Ryan M <aircamperace(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear
fittings What issue is it in? I'll have to purchase it as a back issue when I join. =0A=0ARyan M=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: Charles Ca mpbell =0ATo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com=0ASen t: Wed, January 5, 2011 5:15:14 PM=0ASubject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Addit ional questions regarding split axle gear =0Afittings=0A=0A=EF=BB =0AD isregard my last post. I never considered the copyright issue. Why don't you =0AE-mail Doc Moser at bpan(at)tds.net and ask if you can buy a copy of t he =0Amagazine. Chuck=0A----- Original Message ----- =0A>From: aa5flyer@g mail.com =0A>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com =0A>Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 3:24 PM=0A>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional quest ions regarding split axle =0A>gear fittings=0A>=0A>=0A>Any chance that I co uld get a copy of this article. I=99m getting ready to =0A>build my gear. I=99ve joined the BPA, but did not receive the newslette rs due =0A>to seasonal moving. Would rejoin if the newsletter was avail able online.=0A> =0A>Tim White =0A>From: TOM STINEMETZE =0A>Sent: Wednesday , January 05, 2011 9:16 AM=0A>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com =0A>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear =0A> fittings=0A> Yes, I got my copy of the newsletter and read that article la st evening - =0A>just after I completed my gear to the dimensions shown on the Hoopman plans. =0A>Guess what needs to be built again! Aaarr ruuuggg! It does make sense to =0A>move the axles forward as explained by William Wynne in that very informative =0A>article. Tapping on the brak es and going over on the nose does not seem like =0A>such a fun experien ce. Also will help with the weight and balance as that =0A>relatively h eavy landing gear moves further forward of the CG. Next time, =0A>thoug h - PLEASE write the article BEFORE I build it!=0A> =0A>I'm going to ins tall the current gear now anyway so I can move on to other =0A>things fo r a while. BUT - I am convinced that shifting the axles forward is =0A> the right thing to do.=0A> =0A>Stinemetze=0A>N328X=0A>=0A>=0A>>>> "Dangerou s Dave" 1/5/2011 6:09 AM >>>=0A>Jack,just one more ti dbit on the gear.In order to have the axle even with the =0A>leading edg e of the wing all of these angles are different.The plans shown =0A>are for a no brake setup and if you make them as shown they will be way to =0A>far back from the leading edge and if you apply brakes you will grou ndloop on =0A>occasion,kind of a bummer.Dave=0A> There is a good articl e in latest BPA newsletter addressing this issue=0A> =0A>href="http://ww w.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigato r?Pietenpol-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronic s.com=0A> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matroni cs.com/c =0A>=0A> =0A>href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol -List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List=0A> href="http:/ /forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com =0A>href="http://www.m ========== =0A=0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 05, 2011
Subject: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear
fittings
From: Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com>
It's the issue show on the BPA site: http://www.pietenpols.org/ <http://www.pietenpols.org/>January, First Quarter 2011. And check out the beautiful airplane on the cover! Man, make that black and white and that's Bernard in the F&G Manual. Ryan On Wed, Jan 5, 2011 at 5:47 PM, Ryan M wrote: > What issue is it in? I'll have to purchase it as a back issue when I join . > > Ryan M > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Charles Campbell > > *To:* pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > *Sent:* Wed, January 5, 2011 5:15:14 PM > > *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding split > axle gear fittings > > =EF=BB > Disregard my last post. I never considered the copyright issue. Why don 't > you E-mail Doc Moser at bpan(at)tds.net and ask if you can buy a copy of the > magazine. Chuck > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* aa5flyer(at)gmail.com > *To:* pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > *Sent:* Wednesday, January 05, 2011 3:24 PM > *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding split > axle gear fittings > > *Any chance that I could get a copy of this article. I=99m gettin g ready > to build my gear. I=99ve joined the BPA, but did not receive the n ewsletters > due to seasonal moving. Would rejoin if the newsletter was available > online.* > ** > *Tim White* > > *From:* TOM STINEMETZE > *Sent:* Wednesday, January 05, 2011 9:16 AM > *To:* pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle > gear fittings > > *Yes, I got my copy of the newsletter and read that article last evening > - just after I completed my gear to the dimensions shown on the Hoopman > plans. Guess what needs to be built again! Aaarrruuuggg! It does make > sense to move the axles forward as explained by William Wynne in that ver y > informative article. Tapping on the brakes and going over on the nose do es > not seem like such a fun experience. Also will help with the weight and > balance as that relatively heavy landing gear moves further forward of th e > CG. Next time, though - PLEASE write the article BEFORE I build it!* > ** > *I'm going to install the current gear now anyway so I can move on to > other things for a while. BUT - I am convinced that shifting the axles > forward is the right thing to do.* > ** > *Stinemetze* > *N328X* > > > >>> "Dangerous Dave" 1/5/2011 6:09 AM >>> > Jack,just one more tidbit on the gear.In order to have the axle even with > the leading edge of the wing all of these angles are different.The plans > shown are for a no brake setup and if you make them as shown they will be > way to far back from the leading edge and if you apply brakes you will > groundloop on occasion,kind of a bummer.Dave > There is a good article in latest BPA newsletter addressing this issue > > * > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">htt p://forums.matronics.com <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List %22%3Ehttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhref=%22http://for ums.matronics.com%22%3Ehttp://forums.matronics.com> > > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c <http://www.matronics.com/contribution%22%3Ehttp://www.matronics.com/c> > * > > * > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pie tenpol-List%22%3Ehttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List> > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com http://forums.matronics.com> > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c <http://www.matronics.com/contribution%22%3Ehttp://www.matronics.com/c>* > > *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?="_blank" href="http://forums.mat ronics.com">http://forums.matronics.co * > > > * > =========== =========== =========== =========== > * > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 05, 2011
Subject: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear
fittings
From: Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com>
Like this! On Wed, Jan 5, 2011 at 6:06 PM, Ryan Mueller wrote: > It's the issue show on the BPA site: > > http://www.pietenpols.org/ > > <http://www.pietenpols.org/>January, First Quarter 2011. And check out th e > beautiful airplane on the cover! Man, make that black and white and that' s > Bernard in the F&G Manual. > > Ryan > > > On Wed, Jan 5, 2011 at 5:47 PM, Ryan M wrote: > >> What issue is it in? I'll have to purchase it as a back issue when I joi n. >> >> Ryan M >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* Charles Campbell >> >> *To:* pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >> *Sent:* Wed, January 5, 2011 5:15:14 PM >> >> *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding split >> axle gear fittings >> >> =EF=BB >> Disregard my last post. I never considered the copyright issue. Why >> don't you E-mail Doc Moser at bpan(at)tds.net and ask if you can buy a copy >> of the magazine. Chuck >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> *From:* aa5flyer(at)gmail.com >> *To:* pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 05, 2011 3:24 PM >> *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding split >> axle gear fittings >> >> *Any chance that I could get a copy of this article. I=99m getti ng ready >> to build my gear. I=99ve joined the BPA, but did not receive the newsletters >> due to seasonal moving. Would rejoin if the newsletter was available >> online.* >> ** >> *Tim White* >> >> *From:* TOM STINEMETZE >> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 05, 2011 9:16 AM >> *To:* pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >> *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle >> gear fittings >> >> *Yes, I got my copy of the newsletter and read that article last evenin g >> - just after I completed my gear to the dimensions shown on the Hoopman >> plans. Guess what needs to be built again! Aaarrruuuggg! It does make >> sense to move the axles forward as explained by William Wynne in that ve ry >> informative article. Tapping on the brakes and going over on the nose d oes >> not seem like such a fun experience. Also will help with the weight and >> balance as that relatively heavy landing gear moves further forward of t he >> CG. Next time, though - PLEASE write the article BEFORE I build it!* >> ** >> *I'm going to install the current gear now anyway so I can move on to >> other things for a while. BUT - I am convinced that shifting the axles >> forward is the right thing to do.* >> ** >> *Stinemetze* >> *N328X* >> >> >> >>> "Dangerous Dave" 1/5/2011 6:09 AM >>> >> Jack,just one more tidbit on the gear.In order to have the axle even wit h >> the leading edge of the wing all of these angles are different.The plans >> shown are for a no brake setup and if you make them as shown they will b e >> way to far back from the leading edge and if you apply brakes you will >> groundloop on occasion,kind of a bummer.Dave >> There is a good article in latest BPA newsletter addressing this issue >> >> * >> >> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.ma tronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">ht tp://forums.matronics.com <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Lis t%22%3Ehttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhref=%22http://fo rums.matronics.com%22%3Ehttp://forums.matronics.com> >> >> >> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/ c <http://www.matronics.com/contribution%22%3Ehttp://www.matronics.com/c> >> * >> >> * >> >> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.ma tronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pi etenpol-List%22%3Ehttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List> >> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com http://forums.matronics.com> >> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/ c <http://www.matronics.com/contribution%22%3Ehttp://www.matronics.com/c>* >> >> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?="_blank" href="http://forums.ma tronics.com">http://forums.matronics.co * >> >> >> * >> =========== =========== =========== =========== >> * >> >> > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: New guy with Model A questions
From: "Pieti Lowell" <Lowellcfrank(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Jan 05, 2011
The questions that you ask require many many answers and to put a standard A on a Bi Plane will take much hopping up to get her flying at Pietenpol specs, I fly a Ford B , Modified to swing a Prop that is standard on a Lambert 90 HP. I have many answers on what a stock Ford A will and wont do. If you Email me I will try to do your questions Justice. I have built many types of engines up from scratch, Radials, to Fords all on pietenpols, with flight specs Via actual testing. Pieti Lowell Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325738#325738 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net>
Subject: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear
fittings
Date: Jan 05, 2011
It's in the Jan 2011 issue -- the one that just hit the stands. ----- Original Message ----- From: Ryan M To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 6:47 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings What issue is it in? I'll have to purchase it as a back issue when I join. Ryan M ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: Charles Campbell <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wed, January 5, 2011 5:15:14 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings =EF=BB Disregard my last post. I never considered the copyright issue. Why don't you E-mail Doc Moser at bpan(at)tds.net and ask if you can buy a copy of the magazine. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: aa5flyer(at)gmail.com To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 3:24 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings Any chance that I could get a copy of this article. I=99m getting ready to build my gear. I=99ve joined the BPA, but did not receive the newsletters due to seasonal moving. Would rejoin if the newsletter was available online. Tim White From: TOM STINEMETZE Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 9:16 AM To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings Yes, I got my copy of the newsletter and read that article last evening - just after I completed my gear to the dimensions shown on the Hoopman plans. Guess what needs to be built again! Aaarrruuuggg! It does make sense to move the axles forward as explained by William Wynne in that very informative article. Tapping on the brakes and going over on the nose does not seem like such a fun experience. Also will help with the weight and balance as that relatively heavy landing gear moves further forward of the CG. Next time, though - PLEASE write the article BEFORE I build it! I'm going to install the current gear now anyway so I can move on to other things for a while. BUT - I am convinced that shifting the axles forward is the right thing to do. Stinemetze N328X >>> "Dangerous Dave" 1/5/2011 6:09 AM >>> Jack,just one more tidbit on the gear.In order to have the axle even with the leading edge of the wing all of these angles are different.The plans shown are for a no brake setup and if you make them as shown they will be way to far back from the leading edge and if you apply brakes you will groundloop on occasion,kind of a bummer.Dave There is a good article in latest BPA newsletter addressing this issue href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">h ttp://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?="_blank" href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.co ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <aa5flyer(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear
fittings
Date: Jan 05, 2011
Mr. Moser, Is it possible to get a copy of this article? Tim White From: Charles Campbell Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 8:17 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings It's in the Jan 2011 issue -- the one that just hit the stands. ----- Original Message ----- From: Ryan M To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 6:47 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings What issue is it in? I'll have to purchase it as a back issue when I join. Ryan M ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: Charles Campbell <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wed, January 5, 2011 5:15:14 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings =EF=BB Disregard my last post. I never considered the copyright issue. Why don't you E-mail Doc Moser at bpan(at)tds.net and ask if you can buy a copy of the magazine. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: aa5flyer(at)gmail.com To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 3:24 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings Any chance that I could get a copy of this article. I=99m getting ready to build my gear. I=99ve joined the BPA, but did not receive the newsletters due to seasonal moving. Would rejoin if the newsletter was available online. Tim White From: TOM STINEMETZE Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 9:16 AM To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings Yes, I got my copy of the newsletter and read that article last evening - just after I completed my gear to the dimensions shown on the Hoopman plans. Guess what needs to be built again! Aaarrruuuggg! It does make sense to move the axles forward as explained by William Wynne in that very informative article. Tapping on the brakes and going over on the nose does not seem like such a fun experience. Also will help with the weight and balance as that relatively heavy landing gear moves further forward of the CG. Next time, though - PLEASE write the article BEFORE I build it! I'm going to install the current gear now anyway so I can move on to other things for a while. BUT - I am convinced that shifting the axles forward is the right thing to do. Stinemetze N328X >>> "Dangerous Dave" 1/5/2011 6:09 AM >>> Jack,just one more tidbit on the gear.In order to have the axle even with the leading edge of the wing all of these angles are different.The plans shown are for a no brake setup and if you make them as shown they will be way to far back from the leading edge and if you apply brakes you will groundloop on occasion,kind of a bummer.Dave There is a good article in latest BPA newsletter addressing this issue href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">h ttp://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?="_blank" href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.co href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: New guy with Model A questions
From: "DOMIT" <rx7_ragtop(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Jan 05, 2011
Pieti Lowell wrote: > The questions that you ask require many many answers and to put a standard A on a Bi Plane will take much hopping up to get her flying at Pietenpol specs, > I fly a Ford B , Modified to swing a Prop that is standard on a Lambert 90 HP. > I have many answers on what a stock Ford A will and wont do. If you Email me I will try to do your questions Justice. > I have built many types of engines up from scratch, Radials, to Fords all on pietenpols, with flight specs Via actual testing. > > Pieti Lowell PM sent. :) -------- First rule of ground school: This is the ground... don't hit it going fast. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325745#325745 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: New guy with Model A questions
Date: Jan 05, 2011
From: "Brett Phillips" <bphillip(at)shentel.net>
You won't be the first to put an "A" in a biplane, as the Wiley Post model A biplane did that in the early/mid-thirties: http://www.scribd.com/doc/41171891/The-Vintage-Airplane-Vol-1-No-4-Mar-1973 I can't comment on the level of power produced by the Wiley Post conversion, but it was FAA certified, as was the Funk model B conversion. The Gere Sport biplane, while originally powered with a 4 cylinder Chevrolet, was touted in the 1933 Flying and Glider Manual as being ideal for the model A, but I have some doubts as to how well it would perform given its small wing area. I believe that the published weight of Mr Pietenpol's Ford "A" conversion was 244 lbs, but can't recall where I saw that published! The Corben (Super Ace) conversion of the "A" was reported to weigh a bit less than 220 lbs, but it was a good deal more involved than Mr. Pietenpol's design. It is common to see horsepower ratings ranging from 35 HP (bone stock, 1600 RPM per the 1932 FGM) to the high fifties (typically with a 6:1 cylinder head, a model B carburetor, and maybe a warmed over camshaft). The high end of this range is by no means the ceiling, but it is probably the most economical level of power from an "A". As Pieti Lowell notes, there is considerable power to be had from these engines if they are properly prepared and tuned. Brett Phillips Strasburg, VA ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Clif Dawson" <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear
fittings
Date: Jan 05, 2011
Absolutely! And width of main gear. The P-47 had a very wide stance and apparently was almost impossible to groundloop. In the diagram below we are assuming you got a little yaw happening on landing. Like maybe from not straightening out from a crosswind at touchdown. As the wheels touch the ground the moment arm of the tire friction is greater on the right so the plane will turn that way more unless corrected quickly. As you can see, the left wheel gets closer and closer to the centerline of AC travel through the CG and the right further away. Thus the forces of the darkside rapidly overcome your lightsabre, Luke. OOPS! Figure 3- Round you go. The dotted wheels represent the P-47. Which in figure three is rubbing it's tires off going sideways but not past the point of no return yet. Two good books on flying proper airplanes are; Conventional Gear- David Robson Taildragger Tactics - Sparky Imeson http://www.mountainflying.com/ Clif tendency has more to do with relationship of the gear to the CG Gene Rambo ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Clif Dawson" <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: MY NEW ENGINE
Date: Jan 05, 2011
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKGy08OVxyM&feature=related ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack" <jack(at)textors.com>
Subject: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle
gear fittings
Date: Jan 06, 2011
Old "slow poke" Jack made another mistake last night. As mentioned I'm planning to do the bottom plates and strap under the floor in one piece. Well, measured twice and cut once, ok that was fine. Marked it for the 20 degree bend, checked it twice then off to the brake. Perfect 20 degrees', trial fit with side plates looked good. Oh crap! Let's not forget the plywood sides that need to be added. Will clamp small scrap in all gear areas to remember next time. That my tip of the week. Jack DSM _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of TOM STINEMETZE Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 1:28 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings Jack: Anybody who would offer to pay $25 for anything welded by me has to be a little loopy. I bet I can do the next set better due the experience with the first set though. Tom >>> "Jack" 1/5/2011 12:14 PM >>> Tom, I will give $25 for your old gear. Just kidding! That is a bummer, guess I'm glad I move at a slow pace. I've RE-built fittings, horns, pedals many times; hopefully I will do the V's once! But I doubt it. Take care Buddy! Jack DSM ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kip and Beth Gardner <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: MY NEW ENGINE
Date: Jan 06, 2011
Wouldn't that be fun to fly behind - get a steam bath while you go - people flying commercial first class would pay a lot for a perk like that :). On Jan 5, 2011, at 11:56 PM, Clif Dawson wrote: > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKGy08OVxyM&feature=related > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net>
Subject: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle
gear fittings
Date: Jan 06, 2011
Jack, I guess I have thought of that a hundred times recently. I'm waiting until I get all the controls done and the seats in before putting that 1/8 th sheet on the sides so I will have easier access to the inside. ----- Original Message ----- From: Jack To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2011 6:49 AM Subject: RE: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings Old "slow poke" Jack made another mistake last night. As mentioned I'm planning to do the bottom plates and strap under the floor in one piece. Well, measured twice and cut once, ok that was fine. Marked it for the 20 degree bend, checked it twice then off to the brake. Perfect 20 degrees', trial fit with side plates looked good. Oh crap! Let's not forget the plywood sides that need to be added. Will clamp small scrap in all gear areas to remember next time. That my tip of the week. Jack DSM ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of TOM STINEMETZE Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 1:28 PM To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings Jack: Anybody who would offer to pay $25 for anything welded by me has to be a little loopy. I bet I can do the next set better due the experience with the first set though. Tom >>> "Jack" 1/5/2011 12:14 PM >>> Tom, I will give $25 for your old gear. Just kidding! That is a bummer, guess I'm glad I move at a slow pace. I've RE-built fittings, horns, pedals many times; hopefully I will do the V's once! But I doubt it. Take care Buddy! Jack DSM http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhttp://forums.matronics. comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net>
Subject: Elevator cables
Date: Jan 06, 2011
A couple of questions for anyone in the group. The plans show the cables going from the control stick back to the bell crank going thru a wood member and changing direction at the same time thus rubbing on the wood every time the controls move. Seems to me a couple of pulleys placed where the direction change occurs are in order. Also, does the difference in angle between where the cables attach to the bell crank and the cables going out to the elevators have any adverse effect? What is the concensus amongst those who have gone thru this stage? Chuck ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Elevator cables
Date: Jan 06, 2011
I didn't like the "spruce bearing" in the plans and added a pulley as shown below. You can see the elevator pulley at the extreme right side of the picture. I also added pulleys for the rudder cables as shonw in about the middle of the picture. The remainder of what you see is part of my trim system: Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charles Campbell Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2011 9:23 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Elevator cables A couple of questions for anyone in the group. The plans show the cables going from the control stick back to the bell crank going thru a wood member and changing direction at the same time thus rubbing on the wood every time the controls move. Seems to me a couple of pulleys placed where the direction change occurs are in order. Also, does the difference in angle between where the cables attach to the bell crank and the cables going out to the elevators have any adverse effect? What is the concensus amongst those who have gone thru this stage? Chuck ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings
From: "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca>
Date: Jan 06, 2011
Not sure why this didn't ring a bell in my head before, but as I read your last message, Jack, I thought to myself "Why is he only bending 20 degrees?". So I checked the plans again, and that's what the plans call for. However, if you do the calculations, or do a scale drawing of the wing, fuselage, and struts, you'll find that the lift struts are oriented at 30 degrees, not 20. Since the purpose of these brackets is to attach the lift struts, they really should be in line with the struts (so as not to import any bending forces on the brackets, or twisting forces on the fuselage). The strange thing is that the lift strut attachment brackets in the wing were originally mis-aligned, but corrected later in the supplementary plans, but this discrepancy was not caught or corrected. Now, I'm sure that over the years, there have been a LOT of Air campers built with these brackets bent at 20 degrees, and they have flown without problems for hundreds of hours, BUT it just makes sense that the brackets really should be made to do the job that they were intended to do. These brackets should be bent at 30 degrees, not 20. Bill C. (an even slower poke) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325792#325792 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: New guy with Model A questions
From: "DOMIT" <rx7_ragtop(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Jan 06, 2011
Thanks Brett... interesting article! I'm looking for 60-65 hp, sounds like it can be done. -------- First rule of ground school: This is the ground... don't hit it going fast. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325794#325794 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net>
Subject: Re: Elevator cables
Date: Jan 06, 2011
Jack, thanks for the picture. I gives me ideas of how to handle my system. I see only one pulley which I assume is for the cable that comes from the pulley at the front of the control stick. Does the other cable not need one or did you put the pulley that is for the cable at the rear of the stick further back so that only one change of direction was needed? How about the second part of my question. Does the different angles have any effect? Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: Jack Phillips To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2011 9:39 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Elevator cables I didn't like the "spruce bearing" in the plans and added a pulley as shown below. You can see the elevator pulley at the extreme right side of the picture. I also added pulleys for the rudder cables as shonw in about the middle of the picture. The remainder of what you see is part of my trim system: Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charles Campbell Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2011 9:23 AM To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: Elevator cables A couple of questions for anyone in the group. The plans show the cables going from the control stick back to the bell crank going thru a wood member and changing direction at the same time thus rubbing on the wood every time the controls move. Seems to me a couple of pulleys placed where the direction change occurs are in order. Also, does the difference in angle between where the cables attach to the bell crank and the cables going out to the elevators have any adverse effect? What is the concensus amongst those who have gone thru this stage? Chuck href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net>
Subject: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear
fittings
Date: Jan 06, 2011
Good poop! That means the other piece needs to be bent 120 degrees vice 110. I think I'll change the plans a bit. 30 degrees is OK for the one, but I think 120 is a bit much. How about having the second piece really two pieces oriented 120 degrees and welded (just make one monstrous weld to take care of all the angles) -- that's a nonwelder talking -- that might not be an option. Could the 2-inch wide cross piece be welded to the main piece instead of bolted? What sayest thou? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca> Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2011 10:01 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings > > > Not sure why this didn't ring a bell in my head before, but as I read your > last message, Jack, I thought to myself "Why is he only bending 20 > degrees?". So I checked the plans again, and that's what the plans call > for. > > However, if you do the calculations, or do a scale drawing of the wing, > fuselage, and struts, you'll find that the lift struts are oriented at 30 > degrees, not 20. Since the purpose of these brackets is to attach the lift > struts, they really should be in line with the struts (so as not to import > any bending forces on the brackets, or twisting forces on the fuselage). > The strange thing is that the lift strut attachment brackets in the wing > were originally mis-aligned, but corrected later in the supplementary > plans, but this discrepancy was not caught or corrected. > > Now, I'm sure that over the years, there have been a LOT of Air campers > built with these brackets bent at 20 degrees, and they have flown without > problems for hundreds of hours, BUT it just makes sense that the brackets > really should be made to do the job that they were intended to do. These > brackets should be bent at 30 degrees, not 20. > > Bill C. (an even slower poke) > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325792#325792 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net>
Subject: Re: MY NEW ENGINE
Date: Jan 06, 2011
Water is awfully heavy! Could the exhausted steam be captured and reused? ----- Original Message ----- From: Kip and Beth Gardner To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2011 8:46 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: MY NEW ENGINE Wouldn't that be fun to fly behind - get a steam bath while you go - people flying commercial first class would pay a lot for a perk like that :). On Jan 5, 2011, at 11:56 PM, Clif Dawson wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKGy08OVxyM&feature=related href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ontribution ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Gene Rambo <generambo(at)msn.com>
Subject: Elevator cables
Date: Jan 06, 2011
I think everyone has done what Jack did=2C put a pulley (I put two) on that lower cross member for the elevator cables. I played with the angle of th e center bellcrank and could not find that it made any difference whatsoeve r what angle it was placed. One would think that it should "point" towards the pulleys so that it could never "break over center." I was never able to get it to go over center for either the forward or rear cables no matter how I positioned it=2C so I just kind of positioned it halfway between the two when the stick is centered. A lot of my terminology won't make sense unless you have tried it. Once you do=2C it will become clear. Gene Rambo From: cncampbell(at)windstream.net Subject: Pietenpol-List: Elevator cables Date: Thu=2C 6 Jan 2011 09:22:32 -0500 A couple of questions for anyone in the group. The plans show the cables g oing from the control stick back to the bell crank going thru a wood member and changing direction at the same time thus rubbing on the wood every tim e the controls move. Seems to me a couple of pulleys placed where the dire ction change occurs are in order. Also=2C does the difference in angle bet ween where the cables attach to the bell crank and the cables going out to the elevators have any adverse effect? What is the concensus amongst those who have gone thru this stage? Chuck ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Tail wheel
From: "Flyboy" <ebarchik(at)berwicksd.org>
Date: Jan 06, 2011
I'm a new guy, woodshop teacher, building a Piet with 12 students. Our fuselage is making progress. What tailwheel is recommended for the Piet. We plan on using 600-6 tires and springs instead of bungee cords. Would appreciate any help possible. Flyboy from Berwick PA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325805#325805 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/pontoon_project_055_881.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Elevator cables
Date: Jan 06, 2011
Good pics, Jack. One should note the 'keepers' that you added to the pulley, so that the cables can't slip off. Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion, Running! Tail done, Fuselage on gear (23 ribs down.) _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack Phillips Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2011 6:40 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Elevator cables I didn't like the "spruce bearing" in the plans and added a pulley as shown below. You can see the elevator pulley at the extreme right side of the picture. I also added pulleys for the rudder cables as shonw in about the middle of the picture. The remainder of what you see is part of my trim system: Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charles Campbell Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2011 9:23 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Elevator cables A couple of questions for anyone in the group. The plans show the cables going from the control stick back to the bell crank going thru a wood member and changing direction at the same time thus rubbing on the wood every time the controls move. Seems to me a couple of pulleys placed where the direction change occurs are in order. Also, does the difference in angle between where the cables attach to the bell crank and the cables going out to the elevators have any adverse effect? What is the concensus amongst those who have gone thru this stage? Chuck href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronic s.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Elevator cables
From: "899PM" <rockriverrifle(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Jan 06, 2011
I used a 1" x 1" pc of UHMW and drilled two "fairlead" holes thru it. Weighs less than one of the pulleys alone....never mind the brackets. Lighter here and there (x100) is good! -------- PAPA MIKE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325810#325810 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net>
Subject: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear
fittings
Date: Jan 06, 2011
When I used to instruct basic flying (meeny years ago) I taught (and still use) the wing-down method of cross wind correction. You lower the up-wind wing to keep the airplane over the center line of the runway and use opposite rudder to keep the airplane aligned with the center line. You are actually slipping into the wind. When the airplane stalls, the downwind wing (the higher wing) stalls first and the airplane rotates to the level attitude just as it touches down (in theory). Try it, you'll like it! ----- Original Message ----- From: Clif Dawson To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 11:56 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings Absolutely! And width of main gear. The P-47 had a very wide stance and apparently was almost impossible to groundloop. In the diagram below we are assuming you got a little yaw happening on landing. Like maybe from not straightening out from a crosswind at touchdown. As the wheels touch the ground the moment arm of the tire friction is greater on the right so the plane will turn that way more unless corrected quickly. As you can see, the left wheel gets closer and closer to the centerline of AC travel through the CG and the right further away. Thus the forces of the darkside rapidly overcome your lightsabre, Luke. OOPS! Figure 3- Round you go. The dotted wheels represent the P-47. Which in figure three is rubbing it's tires off going sideways but not past the point of no return yet. Two good books on flying proper airplanes are; Conventional Gear- David Robson Taildragger Tactics - Sparky Imeson http://www.mountainflying.com/ Clif tendency has more to do with relationship of the gear to the CG Gene Rambo ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net>
Subject: Re: Elevator cables
Date: Jan 06, 2011
I'm sorry. What is UHMW? ----- Original Message ----- From: "899PM" <rockriverrifle(at)hotmail.com> Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2011 11:50 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Elevator cables > > I used a 1" x 1" pc of UHMW and drilled two "fairlead" holes thru it. > Weighs less than one of the pulleys alone....never mind the brackets. > Lighter here and there (x100) is good! > > -------- > PAPA MIKE > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325810#325810 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Robert Gow" <rgow(at)avionicsdesign.ca>
Subject: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear
fittings
Date: Jan 06, 2011
That always worked for me in the T'craft except that it did not roll level. I could hold the wing high during the roll-out for a bit. Bob From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charles Campbell Sent: January 6, 2011 12:16 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings When I used to instruct basic flying (meeny years ago) I taught (and still use) the wing-down method of cross wind correction. You lower the up-wind wing to keep the airplane over the center line of the runway and use opposite rudder to keep the airplane aligned with the center line. You are actually slipping into the wind. When the airplane stalls, the downwind wing (the higher wing) stalls first and the airplane rotates to the level attitude just as it touches down (in theory). Try it, you'll like it! ----- Original Message ----- From: Clif Dawson <mailto:CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 11:56 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings Absolutely! And width of main gear. The P-47 had a very wide stance and apparently was almost impossible to groundloop. In the diagram below we are assuming you got a little yaw happening on landing. Like maybe from not straightening out from a crosswind at touchdown. As the wheels touch the ground the moment arm of the tire friction is greater on the right so the plane will turn that way more unless corrected quickly. As you can see, the left wheel gets closer and closer to the centerline of AC travel through the CG and the right further away. Thus the forces of the darkside rapidly overcome your lightsabre, Luke. OOPS! Figure 3- Round you go. The dotted wheels represent the P-47. Which in figure three is rubbing it's tires off going sideways but not past the point of no return yet. Two good books on flying proper airplanes are; Conventional Gear- David Robson Taildragger Tactics - Sparky Imeson http://www.mountainflying.com/ Clif tendency has more to do with relationship of the gear to the CG Gene Rambo ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Matthew VanDervort <matthew.vandervort(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear
fittings
Date: Jan 06, 2011
I agree with bob on this one, but the T'Craft has a big ole wing that likes t o float right down the runway anyhow. That's my preferred crosswind landing technique Sent from my iPhone On Jan 6, 2011, at 11:54 AM, "Robert Gow" wrote: > That always worked for me in the T=99craft except that it did not r oll level. I could hold the wing high during the roll-out for a bit. > > > > > > Bob > > > > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-li st-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charles Campbell > Sent: January 6, 2011 12:16 PM > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings > > > > When I used to instruct basic flying (meeny years ago) I taught (and still use) the wing-down method of cross wind correction. You lower the up-wind w ing to keep the airplane over the center line of the runway and use opposite rudder to keep the airplane aligned with the center line. You are actually slipping into the wind. When the airplane stalls, the downwind wing (the h igher wing) stalls first and the airplane rotates to the level attitude just as it touches down (in theory). Try it, you'll like it! > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Clif Dawson > > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > > Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 11:56 PM > > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings > > > > Absolutely! > > > > And width of main gear. The P-47 had a very wide stance and apparently was > > almost impossible to groundloop. > > > > In the diagram below we are assuming you got a little yaw happening on > > landing. Like maybe from not straightening out from a crosswind at > > touchdown. As the wheels touch the ground the moment arm of the tire > > friction is greater on the right so the plane will turn that way more unl ess > > corrected quickly. As you can see, the left wheel gets closer and closer > > to the centerline of AC travel through the CG and the right further away. > > Thus the forces of the darkside rapidly overcome your lightsabre, Luke. > > OOPS! Figure 3- Round you go. > > > > The dotted wheels represent the P-47. Which in figure three is rubbing > > it's tires off going sideways but not past the point of no return yet. > > > > Two good books on flying proper airplanes are; > > Conventional Gear- David Robson > > > > Taildragger Tactics - Sparky Imeson > > http://www.mountainflying.com/ > > > > Clif > > > > > > > > > > tendency has more to do with relationship of the gear to the CG > > Gene Rambo > > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > http://forums.matronics.com > http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Gene Rambo <generambo(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Elevator cables
Date: Jan 06, 2011
the problem here is that the angle change there is 45 degrees or better. T hat is technically too much for a fairlead=2C which should not change a cab le more than 5 degrees (? some small number)=2C not that I always follow th at rule. In this case=2C two large cables that are extremely critical maki ng a big angle change=2C I would go with a pulley. Gene Rambo > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Elevator cables > From: rockriverrifle(at)hotmail.com > Date: Thu=2C 6 Jan 2011 08:50:39 -0800 > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > > > > I used a 1" x 1" pc of UHMW and drilled two "fairlead" holes thru it. Wei ghs less than one of the pulleys alone....never mind the brackets. Lighter here and there (x100) is good! > > -------- > PAPA MIKE > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325810#325810 > > > > > > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net>
Subject: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear
fittings
Date: Jan 06, 2011
I really first started using the "wing down" technique in a low-wing airplane where the technique works best. The fuselage partially blanks the high wing, causing it to stall earlier than the other. Really in a high-wing A/C you more often than not probably land on one wheel -- but at least you're heading straight down the runway and as the A/C slows the other wheel will come down. ----- Original Message ----- From: Matthew VanDervort To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2011 1:21 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings I agree with bob on this one, but the T'Craft has a big ole wing that likes to float right down the runway anyhow. That's my preferred crosswind landing technique Sent from my iPhone On Jan 6, 2011, at 11:54 AM, "Robert Gow" wrote: That always worked for me in the T=99craft except that it did not roll level. I could hold the wing high during the roll-out for a bit. Bob From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charles Campbell Sent: January 6, 2011 12:16 PM To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings When I used to instruct basic flying (meeny years ago) I taught (and still use) the wing-down method of cross wind correction. You lower the up-wind wing to keep the airplane over the center line of the runway and use opposite rudder to keep the airplane aligned with the center line. You are actually slipping into the wind. When the airplane stalls, the downwind wing (the higher wing) stalls first and the airplane rotates to the level attitude just as it touches down (in theory). Try it, you'll like it! ----- Original Message ----- From: Clif Dawson To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 11:56 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings Absolutely! And width of main gear. The P-47 had a very wide stance and apparently was almost impossible to groundloop. In the diagram below we are assuming you got a little yaw happening on landing. Like maybe from not straightening out from a crosswind at touchdown. As the wheels touch the ground the moment arm of the tire friction is greater on the right so the plane will turn that way more unless corrected quickly. As you can see, the left wheel gets closer and closer to the centerline of AC travel through the CG and the right further away. Thus the forces of the darkside rapidly overcome your lightsabre, Luke. OOPS! Figure 3- Round you go. The dotted wheels represent the P-47. Which in figure three is rubbing it's tires off going sideways but not past the point of no return yet. Two good books on flying proper airplanes are; Conventional Gear- David Robson Taildragger Tactics - Sparky Imeson http://www.mountainflying.com/ Clif tendency has more to do with relationship of the gear to the CG Gene Rambo http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhttp://forums.matronics. comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution ========= >http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List ========= ums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ========= http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribut ion ========= ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net>
Subject: Re: Elevator cables
Date: Jan 06, 2011
Thanks, Gene, I'll do that. I'm about ready to get the control system welded up and when I install it in the airplane I'll use a couple of pulleys to change the direction of the cables. I read somewhere from a fellow in Australia, I think, who says they are required to use a pulley anytime a control cable changes direction. Good rule, I think. ----- Original Message ----- From: Gene Rambo To: pietenpol-list Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2011 2:19 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Elevator cables the problem here is that the angle change there is 45 degrees or better. That is technically too much for a fairlead, which should not change a cable more than 5 degrees (? some small number), not that I always follow that rule. In this case, two large cables that are extremely critical making a big angle change, I would go with a pulley. Gene Rambo > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Elevator cables > From: rockriverrifle(at)hotmail.com > Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2011 08:50:39 -0800 > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > > > I used a 1" x 1" pc of UHMW and drilled two "fairlead" holes thru it. Weighs less than one of the pulleys alone....never mind the brackets. Lighter here and there (x100) is good! > > -------- > PAPA MIKE > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325810#325810 > > > = > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: John Hofmann <jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc.com>
Subject: Re: Elevator cables
Date: Jan 06, 2011
Gene is correct on change of direction for fairleads being a small angle. If I remember correctly 3 degrees is the commonly accepted limit before a pulley is in order. -john- John Hofmann Vice-President, Information Technology The Rees Group, Inc. 2424 American Lane Madison, WI 53704 Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150 Fax: 608.443.2474 Email: jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc.com On Jan 6, 2011, at 2:06 PM, Charles Campbell wrote: > Thanks, Gene, I'll do that. I'm about ready to get the control system welded up and when I install it in the airplane I'll use a couple of pulleys to change the direction of the cables. I read somewhere from a fellow in Australia, I think, who says they are required to use a pulley anytime a control cable changes direction. Good rule, I think. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Gene Rambo > To: pietenpol-list > Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2011 2:19 PM > Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Elevator cables > > the problem here is that the angle change there is 45 degrees or better. That is technically too much for a fairlead, which should not change a cable more than 5 degrees (? some small number), not that I always follow that rule. In this case, two large cables that are extremely critical making a big angle change, I would go with a pulley. > > Gene Rambo > > > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Elevator cables > > From: rockriverrifle(at)hotmail.com > > Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2011 08:50:39 -0800 > > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > > > > > > I used a 1" x 1" pc of UHMW and drilled two "fairlead" holes thru it. Weighs less than one of the pulleys alone....never mind the brackets. Lighter here and there (x100) is good! > > > > -------- > > PAPA MIKE > > > > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325810#325810 > > > > > > > = > > > > > > > > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matr onics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Elevator cables
From: "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca>
Date: Jan 06, 2011
Like Gene and John said, and AC 43.13-1B agrees with them, 3 degrees of cable deflection is okay for a fairlead, otherwise use the appropriate sized pulley. Bill C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325839#325839 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/ac_4313_1b_fairleads_137.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: legs again
From: "bender" <jfaith(at)solairusaviation.com>
Date: Jan 06, 2011
Well the piet grew some legs today.... those angles were perplexing ... and i invented a couple of new words in the process..but if this is the hardest part then it's all downhill now right ?? jeff Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325851#325851 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/gearp_939.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: legs again
From: "DOMIT" <rx7_ragtop(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Jan 06, 2011
Very nice! I love big wire wheels... it just looks right! -------- Brad "DOMIT" Smith First rule of ground school: This is the ground... don't hit it going fast. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325852#325852 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Elevator cables
From: Roman Bukolt <conceptmodels(at)tds.net>
Date: Jan 06, 2011
Thank you Ally. Looks like a great place. Sent from my iPhone On Jan 6, 2011, at 2:06 PM, "Charles Campbell" w rote: > Thanks, Gene, I'll do that. I'm about ready to get the control system wel ded up and when I install it in the airplane I'll use a couple of pulleys to change the direction of the cables. I read somewhere from a fellow in Aust ralia, I think, who says they are required to use a pulley anytime a control cable changes direction. Good rule, I think. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Gene Rambo > To: pietenpol-list > Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2011 2:19 PM > Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Elevator cables > > the problem here is that the angle change there is 45 degrees or better. T hat is technically too much for a fairlead, which should not change a cable m ore than 5 degrees (? some small number), not that I always follow that rule . In this case, two large cables that are extremely critical making a big a ngle change, I would go with a pulley. > > Gene Rambo > > > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Elevator cables > > From: rockriverrifle(at)hotmail.com > > Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2011 08:50:39 -0800 > > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > > m> > > > > I used a 1" x 1" pc of UHMW and drilled two "fairlead" holes thru it. We ighs less than one of the pulleys alone....never mind the brackets. Lighter h ere and there (x100) is good! > > > > -------- > > PAPA MIKE > > > > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325810#325810 > > > > > > > = > > > > > > > > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matr onics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack" <jack(at)textors.com>
Subject: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear
fittings
Date: Jan 06, 2011
Great tip Bill, thanks! In your drawings have you used the "standard" dimensions and attach points? Jack DSM -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Church Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2011 9:01 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings Not sure why this didn't ring a bell in my head before, but as I read your last message, Jack, I thought to myself "Why is he only bending 20 degrees?". So I checked the plans again, and that's what the plans call for. However, if you do the calculations, or do a scale drawing of the wing, fuselage, and struts, you'll find that the lift struts are oriented at 30 degrees, not 20. Since the purpose of these brackets is to attach the lift struts, they really should be in line with the struts (so as not to import any bending forces on the brackets, or twisting forces on the fuselage). The strange thing is that the lift strut attachment brackets in the wing were originally mis-aligned, but corrected later in the supplementary plans, but this discrepancy was not caught or corrected. Now, I'm sure that over the years, there have been a LOT of Air campers built with these brackets bent at 20 degrees, and they have flown without problems for hundreds of hours, BUT it just makes sense that the brackets really should be made to do the job that they were intended to do. These brackets should be bent at 30 degrees, not 20. Bill C. (an even slower poke) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325792#325792 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 07, 2011
From: johnwoods(at)westnet.com.au
Subject: Re: Elevator cables
Chuck, One thing to consider with the "closed loop" control system is that the dis tance between cable attachment points on the bell crank should be the same =C2-on the elevator horn as this forms a parrallelogram. By doing this th e cable tension should not change as the stick is moved. This would also apply to the rudder. Just a thought. JohnW Perth Aust. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> Sent: Thursday, 6 January, 2011 10:22:32 PM GMT +08:00 Beijing / Chongqing / Hong Kong / Urumqi Subject: Pietenpol-List: Elevator cables A couple of questions for anyone in the group.=C2- The plans show the cab les going from the control stick back to the bell crank going thru a wood m ember and changing direction at the same time thus rubbing on the wood ever y time the controls move. =C2-Seems to me a couple of pulleys placed wher e the direction change occurs are in order.=C2- Also, does the difference in angle between where the cables attach to the bell crank and the cables going out to the elevators have any adverse effect? =C2-What is the conce ====== == ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ray Krause" <raykrause(at)frontiernet.net>
Subject: Re: Elevator cables
Date: Jan 06, 2011
UHMW? Please give a definition,if you would. I am at this very point with the Sky Scout. Was planning this evening on pulleys, just as jack did; or a piece of 1"thick Teflon with holes in it used as a guide. We use the Teflon in farming as "rubbers" for elevator chains on harvesters. Maybe that is what UHMV is? Thanks and fly SAFELY, Ray Krause Waiex 51YX, Jabiru 3300 (1197), Sensenich wood prop, AeroCarb (#2 needle modified), Dynon D-180, Garmin SL 30 NavCom, Garmin 327 transponder, Garmin Aera 560, nav and strobe lights: 234 hrs. Building Sky Scout... slowly. ----- Original Message ----- From: "899PM" <rockriverrifle(at)hotmail.com> Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2011 8:50 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Elevator cables > > I used a 1" x 1" pc of UHMW and drilled two "fairlead" holes thru it. > Weighs less than one of the pulleys alone....never mind the brackets. > Lighter here and there (x100) is good! > > -------- > PAPA MIKE > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325810#325810 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au>
Subject: Re: Elevator cables
Date: Jan 07, 2011
Hi Guys, Check this out... http://www.redwoodplastics.com/products/uhmw-polyethylene/ Peter Wonthaggi Australia http://www.cpc-world.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ray Krause Sent: Friday, 7 January 2011 3:17 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Elevator cables UHMW? Please give a definition,if you would. I am at this very point with the Sky Scout. Was planning this evening on pulleys, just as jack did; or a piece of 1"thick Teflon with holes in it used as a guide. We use the Teflon in farming as "rubbers" for elevator chains on harvesters. Maybe that is what UHMV is? Thanks and fly SAFELY, Ray Krause Waiex 51YX, Jabiru 3300 (1197), Sensenich wood prop, AeroCarb (#2 needle modified), Dynon D-180, Garmin SL 30 NavCom, Garmin 327 transponder, Garmin Aera 560, nav and strobe lights: 234 hrs. Building Sky Scout... slowly. ----- Original Message ----- From: "899PM" <rockriverrifle(at)hotmail.com> Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2011 8:50 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Elevator cables > > I used a 1" x 1" pc of UHMW and drilled two "fairlead" holes thru it. > Weighs less than one of the pulleys alone....never mind the brackets. > Lighter here and there (x100) is good! > > -------- > PAPA MIKE > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325810#325810 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Elevator cables
Date: Jan 07, 2011
Google it. -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ray Krause Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2011 11:17 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Elevator cables --> UHMW? Please give a definition,if you would. I am at this very point with the Sky Scout. Was planning this evening on pulleys, just as jack did; or a piece of 1"thick Teflon with holes in it used as a guide. We use the Teflon in farming as "rubbers" for elevator chains on harvesters. Maybe that is what UHMV is? Thanks and fly SAFELY, Ray Krause Waiex 51YX, Jabiru 3300 (1197), Sensenich wood prop, AeroCarb (#2 needle modified), Dynon D-180, Garmin SL 30 NavCom, Garmin 327 transponder, Garmin Aera 560, nav and strobe lights: 234 hrs. Building Sky Scout... slowly. ----- Original Message ----- From: "899PM" <rockriverrifle(at)hotmail.com> Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2011 8:50 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Elevator cables > > I used a 1" x 1" pc of UHMW and drilled two "fairlead" holes thru it. > Weighs less than one of the pulleys alone....never mind the brackets. > Lighter here and there (x100) is good! > > -------- > PAPA MIKE > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325810#325810 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 07, 2011
From: Frank Metcalfe <fmetcalf(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: MY NEW ENGINE
Yes it can... --- On Thu, 1/6/11, Charles Campbell wrote: From: Charles Campbell <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: MY NEW ENGINE Date: Thursday, January 6, 2011, 10:54 AM Water is awfully heavy!- Could-the exhausted steam-be captured-and reused? ----- Original Message ----- From: Kip and Beth Gardner Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2011 8:46 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: MY NEW ENGINE Wouldn't that be fun to fly behind - get a steam bath while you go - people flying commercial first class would pay a lot for a perk like that :). On Jan 5, 2011, at 11:56 PM, Clif Dawson wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKGy08OVxyM&feature=related href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matro nics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/con tribution href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matro nics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Elevator cables
From: "899PM" <rockriverrifle(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Jan 07, 2011
Remember....we are building EXPERIMENTAL. My guess is, the UHMW with the holes thru it will far outlast myself and anyone else on this list. -------- PAPA MIKE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325897#325897 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Tail wheel
From: "kevinpurtee" <kevin.purtee(at)us.army.mil>
Date: Jan 07, 2011
Hi - There are lots and lots of variation in tailwheels. Look on westcoastpiet.com for a sampling. I personally use the 6" matco from aircraft spruce - has worked well for me. The plane and your kids look great. Take care, Kevin -------- Kevin "Axel" Purtee NX899KP Austin/Georgetown, TX Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325898#325898 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bentoncountycable.net>
Subject: Re: Tail wheel
Date: Jan 07, 2011
Where is everyone getting their tailwheel springs? Gene In Beautiful West Tennessee -----Original Message----- From: kevinpurtee ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Tail wheel
Date: Jan 07, 2011
Which kind, Gene? I've got a leaf spring from a Piper PA-12 that you are welcome to. If you are referring to the coil spring for the BHP design, some use a John Deere spring. I got my spring from McMaster-Carr. As I recall, it was about $13.00 Jack Phillips NX899JP "Icarus Plummet" Raleigh, NC -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gene & Tammy Sent: Friday, January 07, 2011 10:54 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Tail wheel --> Where is everyone getting their tailwheel springs? Gene In Beautiful West Tennessee -----Original Message----- From: kevinpurtee ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Elevator cables
From: "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca>
Date: Jan 07, 2011
I have no doubt that UHMW would be an excellent material for a fairlead - low friction, self-lubricating, abrasion resistant, etc. I think the issue in this case is the amount of deflection in the control cable, which in this case, as scaled from the plans, is about 30 degrees, which is much more than should be handled by a fairlead. The issue is the amount of localized flexing that the cable will be subjected to. I would think that if a UHMW block was shaped to a radius equal to the appropriate sized pulley, the net result would be the same as using a pulley. Having said that, there have been countless Air campers built as per the plans, using a hole in a block of spruce, and as far as I know, none have fallen out of the sky as a result of that practice. But sometimes it just makes sense to incorporate newer methods and techniques that are based on safety. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325902#325902 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gboothe5" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Tail wheel
Date: Jan 07, 2011
If you're talking the coil spring...John Deere. I couldn't order online, but found the part# and a local dealer who mailed it to me. (gotta dig for the part #) Gary Boothe -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gene & Tammy Sent: Friday, January 07, 2011 7:54 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Tail wheel Where is everyone getting their tailwheel springs? Gene In Beautiful West Tennessee -----Original Message----- From: kevinpurtee ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bentoncountycable.net>
Subject: Re: Tail wheel
Date: Jan 07, 2011
Thanks Gary but I have a friend that is looking for a flat tail spring for his J3 Kitten. Gene -----Original Message----- From: Gboothe5 Sent: Friday, January 07, 2011 10:14 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Tail wheel If you're talking the coil spring...John Deere. I couldn't order online, but found the part# and a local dealer who mailed it to me. (gotta dig for the part #) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bentoncountycable.net>
Subject: Re: Tail wheel
Date: Jan 07, 2011
Thanks Jack. I just called Rich and let him know about McMaster-Carr. Doing good here. Gene -----Original Message----- From: Jack Phillips Sent: Friday, January 07, 2011 10:04 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Tail wheel Which kind, Gene? I've got a leaf spring from a Piper PA-12 that you are welcome to. If you are referring to the coil spring for the BHP design, some use a John Deere spring. I got my spring from McMaster-Carr. As I recall, it was about $13.00 Jack Phillips NX899JP "Icarus Plummet" Raleigh, NC ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: definition of UHMW for Ray
From: "DOMIT" <rx7_ragtop(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Jan 07, 2011
Here is how you source this stuff easily: Go to WalMart... or your local grocery store... or the dollar store. Find cutting boards. That's the white ones. -------- Brad "DOMIT" Smith First rule of ground school: This is the ground... don't hit it going fast. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325911#325911 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ray Krause" <raykrause(at)frontiernet.net>
Subject: Re: Elevator cables
Date: Jan 07, 2011
Thanks, I agree 100%. Two pulleys are not that difficult to install. Ray Krause ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca> Sent: Friday, January 07, 2011 8:11 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Elevator cables > > > I have no doubt that UHMW would be an excellent material for a fairlead - > low friction, self-lubricating, abrasion resistant, etc. > I think the issue in this case is the amount of deflection in the control > cable, which in this case, as scaled from the plans, is about 30 degrees, > which is much more than should be handled by a fairlead. The issue is the > amount of localized flexing that the cable will be subjected to. I would > think that if a UHMW block was shaped to a radius equal to the appropriate > sized pulley, the net result would be the same as using a pulley. > Having said that, there have been countless Air campers built as per the > plans, using a hole in a block of spruce, and as far as I know, none have > fallen out of the sky as a result of that practice. But sometimes it just > makes sense to incorporate newer methods and techniques that are based on > safety. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325902#325902 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 07, 2011
From: Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Tail wheel
>From Matronics search: Match: #15 Message: #42567 From: "gcardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net> Subject: Re: springs Date: Jun 15, 2008 This is the part number, as posted by Bill Church, for the John Deere spring in case anybody else is looking for the info. John Deere sells a spring that's a perfect match for the specs; its part number is T 143444, and it costs about $9.00. Its outer dia. is 1.5in.; full length( no load ) is 6.73" Bill C -----Original Message----- >From: Gboothe5 <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> >Sent: Jan 7, 2011 10:14 AM >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Tail wheel > > >If you're talking the coil spring...John Deere. I couldn't order online, but >found the part# and a local dealer who mailed it to me. (gotta dig for the >part #) > >Gary Boothe > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com >[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gene & Tammy >Sent: Friday, January 07, 2011 7:54 AM >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Tail wheel > > > >Where is everyone getting their tailwheel springs? >Gene In Beautiful West Tennessee > >-----Original Message----- >From: kevinpurtee > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 07, 2011
From: KM Heide CPO/FAAOP <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: definition of UHMW for Ray
I have plenty to go around if someone is looking for this material. We have a surplus store that purchased 100's of pounds of this stuff in all thicknesses. Ken Heide Fargo, ND --- On Fri, 1/7/11, DOMIT wrote: > From: DOMIT <rx7_ragtop(at)yahoo.com> > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: definition of UHMW for Ray > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Date: Friday, January 7, 2011, 11:33 AM > --> Pietenpol-List message posted > by: "DOMIT" > > Here is how you source this stuff easily: Go to > WalMart... or your local grocery store... or the dollar > store. Find cutting boards. That's the white > ones. > > -------- > Brad "DOMIT" Smith > > First rule of ground school: This is the ground... > don't hit it going fast. > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325911#325911 > > > > > > > > Email Forum - > FAQ, > - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - > List Contribution Web Site - > -Matt > Dralle, List Admin. > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net>
Subject: Re: definition of UHMW for Ray
Date: Jan 07, 2011
Ken, I might need a piece of fairly thin UHMW to go on my stabilizer where the top elevator cable will hit the top of the stabilizer. What thickness do you think I would need and do they have it in small quantities? Incidentally, how does one apply the stuff -- T88? Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "KM Heide CPO/FAAOP" <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com> Sent: Friday, January 07, 2011 4:44 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: definition of UHMW for Ray > > > > I have plenty to go around if someone is looking for this material. We > have a surplus store that purchased 100's of pounds of this stuff in all > thicknesses. > > Ken Heide > Fargo, ND > > > --- On Fri, 1/7/11, DOMIT wrote: > >> From: DOMIT <rx7_ragtop(at)yahoo.com> >> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: definition of UHMW for Ray >> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >> Date: Friday, January 7, 2011, 11:33 AM >> --> Pietenpol-List message posted >> by: "DOMIT" >> >> Here is how you source this stuff easily: Go to >> WalMart... or your local grocery store... or the dollar >> store. Find cutting boards. That's the white >> ones. >> >> -------- >> Brad "DOMIT" Smith >> >> First rule of ground school: This is the ground... >> don't hit it going fast. >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325911#325911 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Email Forum - >> FAQ, >> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - >> List Contribution Web Site - >> -Matt >> Dralle, List Admin. >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: definition of UHMW for Ray
Date: Jan 07, 2011
Nothing sticks to polyethylene, disirregardless of its molecular weight. Try stapling or screwing it down, or just use leather like most Pietenpols do. Jack Phillips NX899JP "Icarus Plummet" Raleigh, NC -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charles Campbell Sent: Friday, January 07, 2011 8:19 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: definition of UHMW for Ray Ken, I might need a piece of fairly thin UHMW to go on my stabilizer where the top elevator cable will hit the top of the stabilizer. What thickness do you think I would need and do they have it in small quantities? Incidentally, how does one apply the stuff -- T88? Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "KM Heide CPO/FAAOP" <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com> Sent: Friday, January 07, 2011 4:44 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: definition of UHMW for Ray > > > > I have plenty to go around if someone is looking for this material. We > have a surplus store that purchased 100's of pounds of this stuff in all > thicknesses. > > Ken Heide > Fargo, ND > > > --- On Fri, 1/7/11, DOMIT wrote: > >> From: DOMIT <rx7_ragtop(at)yahoo.com> >> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: definition of UHMW for Ray >> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >> Date: Friday, January 7, 2011, 11:33 AM >> --> Pietenpol-List message posted >> by: "DOMIT" >> >> Here is how you source this stuff easily: Go to >> WalMart... or your local grocery store... or the dollar >> store. Find cutting boards. That's the white >> ones. >> >> -------- >> Brad "DOMIT" Smith >> >> First rule of ground school: This is the ground... >> don't hit it going fast. >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325911#325911 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Email Forum - >> FAQ, >> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - >> List Contribution Web Site - >> -Matt >> Dralle, List Admin. >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fuselage finally rolling
From: "Tracy Dotson" <tracydotson(at)embarqmail.com>
Date: Jan 08, 2011
Looks good POP! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=326016#326016 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: On to the fuselage
From: "Dangerous Dave" <dsornbor(at)aol.com>
Date: Jan 08, 2011
Howdy,done with the wings,off to cover the fuselage...getting closer.Dave -------- Covering Piet Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=326032#326032 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/2011_01_08_08_36_26_891_811.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/2011_01_08_08_37_07_7_101.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 08, 2011
From: KM Heide CPO/FAAOP <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: definition of UHMW for Ray
Chuck, - I can send you some where you can cut it to thickness if needed by table sa w. I bolted my pieces. - Just send me your mailing address. - Ken - --- On Fri, 1/7/11, Charles Campbell wrote: From: Charles Campbell <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: definition of UHMW for Ray Date: Friday, January 7, 2011, 7:19 PM ream.net> Ken, I might need a piece of fairly thin UHMW to go on my stabilizer where the top elevator cable will hit the top of the stabilizer.- What thicknes s do you think I would need and do they have it in small quantities? Incidentally, how does one apply the stuff -- T88?- Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "KM Heide CPO/FAAOP" <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com> Sent: Friday, January 07, 2011 4:44 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: definition of UHMW for Ray > > > > I have plenty to go around if someone is looking for this material. We > have a surplus store that purchased 100's of pounds of this stuff in all > thicknesses. > > Ken Heide > Fargo, ND > > > --- On Fri, 1/7/11, DOMIT wrote: > >> From: DOMIT <rx7_ragtop(at)yahoo.com> >> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: definition of UHMW for Ray >> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >> Date: Friday, January 7, 2011, 11:33 AM >> --> Pietenpol-List message posted >> by: "DOMIT" >> >> Here is how you source this stuff easily: Go to >> WalMart... or your local grocery store... or the dollar >> store. Find cutting boards. That's the white >> ones. >> >> -------- >> Brad "DOMIT" Smith >> >> First rule of ground school: This is the ground... >> don't hit it going fast. >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325911#325911 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Email Forum - >> FAQ, >> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - >> List Contribution Web Site - >> -Matt >> Dralle, List Admin. >> >> >> >> > > > le, List Admin. =0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Stromberg Carb Identification?
From: "PatrickW" <pwhoyt(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Jan 08, 2011
Can anyone identify which model of Stromberg carb this is...? http://picasaweb.google.com/Patrick.Hoyt/EAAChapter25PietenpolProject2010#5559934444611869666 It's on an old A-65 engine that we just got for a Piet that we're building. Anyone know any good sources of info where we can start learning more about that carb....? Thanks, - Pat -------- Patrick Hoyt 601XLb/Corvair N63PZ - 99.999% done.... Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=326056#326056 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net>
Subject: Re: definition of UHMW for Ray
Date: Jan 08, 2011
OK! Thank you. Address is: C. N. Campbell, 229 Brooks Landing Drive, Winston-Salem, NC, 27106. OK? ----- Original Message ----- From: KM Heide CPO/FAAOP To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2011 5:14 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: definition of UHMW for Ray Chuck, I can send you some where you can cut it to thickness if needed by table saw. I bolted my pieces. Just send me your mailing address. Ken --- On Fri, 1/7/11, Charles Campbell wrote: From: Charles Campbell <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: definition of UHMW for Ray To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Date: Friday, January 7, 2011, 7:19 PM Ken, I might need a piece of fairly thin UHMW to go on my stabilizer where the top elevator cable will hit the top of the stabilizer. What thickness do you think I would need and do they have it in small quantities? Incidentally, how does one apply the stuff -- T88? Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "KM Heide CPO/FAAOP" <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com> To: Sent: Friday, January 07, 2011 4:44 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: definition of UHMW for Ray > > > > I have plenty to go around if someone is looking for this material. We > have a surplus store that purchased 100's of pounds of this stuff in all > thicknesses. > > Ken Heide > Fargo, ND > > > --- On Fri, 1/7/11, DOMIT wrote: > >> From: DOMIT <rx7_ragtop(at)yahoo.com> >> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: definition of UHMW for Ray >> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >> Date: Friday, January 7, 2011, 11:33 AM >> --> Pietenpol-List message posted >> by: "DOMIT" >> >> Here is how you source this stuff easily: Go to >> WalMart... or your local grocery store... or the dollar >> store. Find cutting boards. That's the white >> ones. >> >> -------- >> Brad "DOMIT" Smith >> >> First rule of ground school: This is the ground... >> don't hit it going fast. >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325911#325911 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Email Forum - >> FAQ, >> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - >> List Contribution Web Site - >> -Matt >> Dralle, List Admin. >> >> >> >> > ><= Photoshare, and much much onics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.cop; -Matt Draronics.com/contribution" ====== ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 08, 2011
Subject: Re: Stromberg Carb Identification?
From: Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com>
Hi Patrick, Odds are it's an NAS3 series.....if you look around on the body of the carb you should find the model number cast in to the body....NAS3A1, NAS3B, etc etc. Ryan On Sat, Jan 8, 2011 at 5:56 PM, PatrickW wrote: > > Can anyone identify which model of Stromberg carb this is...? > > > http://picasaweb.google.com/Patrick.Hoyt/EAAChapter25PietenpolProject2010#5559934444611869666 > > It's on an old A-65 engine that we just got for a Piet that we're building. > > Anyone know any good sources of info where we can start learning more about > that carb....? > > Thanks, > > - Pat > > -------- > Patrick Hoyt > 601XLb/Corvair > N63PZ - 99.999% done.... > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=326056#326056 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 09, 2011
From: Jim Boyer <boyerjrb(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: On to the fuselage
Looking good Dave; love the Orange and Black. Jim B. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dangerous Dave" <dsornbor(at)aol.com> Sent: Saturday, January 8, 2011 12:37:54 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: On to the fuselage Howdy,done with the wings,off to cover the fuselage...getting closer.Dave -------- Covering Piet Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=326032#326032 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/2011_01_08_08_36_26_891_811.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/2011_01_08_08_37_07_7_101.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 09, 2011
From: Jim Boyer <boyerjrb(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Stromberg Carb Identification?
Pat call Russ at D&G. He rebuilds Stromberg carburetors and I got mine from him. Address and phone number should be in archives. Jim B ----- Original Message ----- From: "PatrickW" <pwhoyt(at)yahoo.com> Sent: Saturday, January 8, 2011 3:56:22 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Stromberg Carb Identification? Can anyone identify which model of Stromberg carb this is...? http://picasaweb.google.com/Patrick.Hoyt/EAAChapter25PietenpolProject2010#5559934444611869666 It's on an old A-65 engine that we just got for a Piet that we're building. Anyone know any good sources of info where we can start learning more about that carb....? Thanks, - Pat -------- Patrick Hoyt 601XLb/Corvair N63PZ - 99.999% done.... Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=326056#326056 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick N" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Brodhead
Date: Jan 08, 2011
I must have missed this in the past, but in the newsletter I just received, There is a fundraising letter from Dick Weeden. This is one of the best causes that I have heard about lately and I plan on sending them a check for all of the money I would have given to political causes, and other charities this year. This is a cause that affects all of us and I think it is very worthwhile. Here is a reprint of the article. BPA Friends of 431 Fund Raiser Reminder We've heard from Mike Weedon that there are some donations coming in- a few of them very generous. Thank you so much to those who have already donated to this worthy project and just a reminder that every bit helps.It's nice to know that in this day and age you can donate to a worthy project to which you will actually be able to see results. For those of you who havent been able make it to Brodhead yet, each year Chapter 431 really comes through for BPA and reaaly makes our reunion such a warm Pietenpol homecoming. Our gathering would not be possible without the efforts of the folks at Brodhead. Chapter 431 has been working on putting together the plans and finances for a meeting hall for a few years now. Things have not progressed as they had hoped. We discovered that with the current funding, even when the new meeting hall is erected, it would still have a dirt floor. BPA has initiated a Friends of 431 Fund to which our members can contribute any amount they can spare, to help raise the funds for a concrete pad for the new 431 Meeting Hall. With the membership we currently have of over 750 Piet people, we hope it is possible to support our at our home field in reaching their goal. Donations are not tax deductable, you are not going to get some return address labels or stickers in the mail- it's simply a voluntary "Thanks for the Memories" sort of gesture Won't you join us? Donations can be sent to: Mike Weedon, Treasurer EAA Chapter 431 PO Box 304 Brodhead, WI. 53520 Please mark on your check or enclose a little notation that this donation is through the BPA Friends of 431 Fund. Mike is going to keep track of the total donations from our group so we can see how our efforts are coming along. I hope you all will contribute. Thanks Dick N. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Dillsburg Aeroplane Works
From: "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net>
Date: Jan 08, 2011
Im relatively new to this game so I dont want to seem like Im complaining, but I felt that I should share my experience with Charles Vogelsong and The Dillsburg Aeroplane Works in order to save others the frustration that a friend and I recently went through. Back in November I spent several days on the phone with Mr. Vogelsong in an attempt to get accurate quotes on several lengths of 4130 tubing. My friend and I combined our material lists in order to save on shipping... a small order from what we were told (over 30 full lengths and nearly $1800), but none the less it was everything we would need to complete our projects... and then some. Mr. Vogelsong does not have e-mail... as many of you know, everything must be confirmed by phone and then faxed to him. How he manages to supply Aircraft Spruce, Wicks and other vendors (his claim) is beyond me. Anyhow, with our sizes, quantities and final quotes nailed down, we faxed it over to him... all neatly typed in spreadsheet format. A Marine and an Army paratrooper... oh yeah, it was organized... heck, my six year old could have understood it. A week or so goes by and I get a call from my friend... time to meet at his place to unload the truck. We opened the carton and were surprised to find that much of the material was severely scratched... one piece even had a major dent near the center. Wow! This isnt the top notch stuff we were told about. In addition to that, we were short several pieces, but received more than we requested of other sizes... the prices that we were quoted had changed too. We were scratching our heads at this point, thinking this certainly must have been an honest mistake. My friend offered to call Mr. Vogelsong to sort things out, which he did... when he described what we had found to Vogelsong his reply was, so, what do you want me to do about it? My friend told him that we would like the pieces that we were shorted, to which he replied, dont have em... might not have those sizes until February. Well, a fine time to tell us! He continued to ask, What do you want me to do about it? Not as if he really wanted to work on a compromise, it was more as if he couldnt care less about us lowly builders trying to scrape up the parts for our flying machines. Im not sure if he is struggling with his age or what... Ive heard nothing but good things about his operation and had looked forward to buying from him, but this was the last time either of us will do business with Dillsburg. I hope others have better experiences, but for anyone considering buying from this guy, being detailed and thorough isnt enough... he obviously doesnt care the way that he once did. Too bad, his outfit had a good reputation. -------- Mark Chouinard Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=326079#326079 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: On to the fuselage
From: "carson" <carsonvella(at)yahoo.com.au>
Date: Jan 08, 2011
Looks great Dave Are you going to fill the holes on the wing tip and if so how Carson Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=326080#326080 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net>
Subject: Re: Dillsburg Aeroplane Works
Date: Jan 09, 2011
I had similar problems with Dillsburg. I had been told that I could buy 4130 sheet for the same price that Dillsbug sells to Aircraft Spruce. Not true. On the steel I bought from Dillsburg I could have gotten 1/3 more from A/S at a lower price. I threw his flyer away. ----- Original Message ----- From: "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 12:20 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Dillsburg Aeroplane Works > > I?Tm relatively new to this game so I don?Tt want to seem like I?Tm > complaining, but I felt that I should share my experience with Charles > Vogelsong and The Dillsburg Aeroplane Works in order to save others the > frustration that a friend and I recently went through. Back in November I > spent several days on the phone with Mr. Vogelsong in an attempt to get > accurate quotes on several lengths of 4130 tubing. My friend and I > combined our material lists in order to save on shipping... a small order > from what we were told (over 30 full lengths and nearly $1800), but none > the less it was everything we would need to complete our projects... and > then some. Mr. Vogelsong does not have e-mail... as many of you know, > everything must be confirmed by phone and then faxed to him. How he > manages to supply Aircraft Spruce, Wicks and other vendors (his claim) is > beyond me. Anyhow, with our sizes, quantities and final quotes nailed > down, we faxed it over to him... all neatly typed in sp! > readsheet format. A Marine and an Army paratrooper... oh yeah, it was > organized... heck, my six year old could have understood it. > > A week or so goes by and I get a call from my friend... time to meet at > his place to unload the truck. We opened the carton and were surprised to > find that much of the material was severely scratched... one piece even > had a major dent near the center. Wow! This isn?Tt the top notch stuff > we were told about. In addition to that, we were short several pieces, > but received more than we requested of other sizes... the prices that we > were quoted had changed too. We were scratching our heads at this point, > thinking this certainly must have been an honest mistake. My friend > offered to call Mr. Vogelsong to sort things out, which he did... when he > described what we had found to Vogelsong his reply was, ?oso, what do you > want me to do about it?? My friend told him that we would like the > pieces that we were shorted, to which he replied, ?odon?Tt have em... > might not have those sizes until February.? Well, a fine time to tell > us! He continued to ask, ?oWhat do you wan! > t me to do about it?? Not as if he really wanted to work on a > compromise, it was more as if he couldn?Tt care less about us lowly > builders trying to scrape up the parts for our flying machines. I?Tm not > sure if he is struggling with his age or what... I?Tve heard nothing but > good things about his operation and had looked forward to buying from him, > but this was the last time either of us will do business with Dillsburg. > I hope others have better experiences, but for anyone considering buying > from this guy, being detailed and thorough isn?Tt enough... he obviously > doesn?Tt care the way that he once did. Too bad, his outfit had a good > reputation. > > -------- > Mark Chouinard > Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=326079#326079 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack" <jack(at)textors.com>
Subject: Re: Dillsburg Aeroplane Works
Date: Jan 09, 2011
Can't speak to Dillsburg, but here in the Midwest KC Airparts is great! Always friendly and helpful. Fair prices and for me one day UPS ground shipping. They are fantastic! http://www.airpartsinc.com Jack DSM -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charles Campbell Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 6:28 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Dillsburg Aeroplane Works I had similar problems with Dillsburg. I had been told that I could buy 4130 sheet for the same price that Dillsbug sells to Aircraft Spruce. Not true. On the steel I bought from Dillsburg I could have gotten 1/3 more from A/S at a lower price. I threw his flyer away. ----- Original Message ----- From: "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 12:20 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Dillsburg Aeroplane Works > > I?Tm relatively new to this game so I don?Tt want to seem like I?Tm > complaining, but I felt that I should share my experience with Charles > Vogelsong and The Dillsburg Aeroplane Works in order to save others the > frustration that a friend and I recently went through. Back in November I > spent several days on the phone with Mr. Vogelsong in an attempt to get > accurate quotes on several lengths of 4130 tubing. My friend and I > combined our material lists in order to save on shipping... a small order > from what we were told (over 30 full lengths and nearly $1800), but none > the less it was everything we would need to complete our projects... and > then some. Mr. Vogelsong does not have e-mail... as many of you know, > everything must be confirmed by phone and then faxed to him. How he > manages to supply Aircraft Spruce, Wicks and other vendors (his claim) is > beyond me. Anyhow, with our sizes, quantities and final quotes nailed > down, we faxed it over to him... all neatly typed in sp! > readsheet format. A Marine and an Army paratrooper... oh yeah, it was > organized... heck, my six year old could have understood it. > > A week or so goes by and I get a call from my friend... time to meet at > his place to unload the truck. We opened the carton and were surprised to > find that much of the material was severely scratched... one piece even > had a major dent near the center. Wow! This isn?Tt the top notch stuff > we were told about. In addition to that, we were short several pieces, > but received more than we requested of other sizes... the prices that we > were quoted had changed too. We were scratching our heads at this point, > thinking this certainly must have been an honest mistake. My friend > offered to call Mr. Vogelsong to sort things out, which he did... when he > described what we had found to Vogelsong his reply was, ?oso, what do you > want me to do about it?? My friend told him that we would like the > pieces that we were shorted, to which he replied, ?odon?Tt have em... > might not have those sizes until February.? Well, a fine time to tell > us! He continued to ask, ?oWhat do you wan! > t me to do about it?? Not as if he really wanted to work on a > compromise, it was more as if he couldn?Tt care less about us lowly > builders trying to scrape up the parts for our flying machines. I?Tm not > sure if he is struggling with his age or what... I?Tve heard nothing but > good things about his operation and had looked forward to buying from him, > but this was the last time either of us will do business with Dillsburg. > I hope others have better experiences, but for anyone considering buying > from this guy, being detailed and thorough isn?Tt enough... he obviously > doesn?Tt care the way that he once did. Too bad, his outfit had a good > reputation. > > -------- > Mark Chouinard > Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=326079#326079 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 09, 2011
From: shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Dillsburg Aeroplane Works
I Have bought steel from Dillsburg and was tickled pink with their prices, however I only bought 4130 tubing.=C2- They were at least 25% cheaper or so.=C2- The deal is, you get a better price if you buy entire lengths of tubing, anywhere from 10-14 ft or so.=C2- He cut mine for shipping at no charge and it keeps his job eaiser since he doesn't need to keep restocking the short pieces of tube.=C2- As far as sheet I don't know how he compar es, but for tubing his prices are the best around. =C2- Shad --- On Sun, 1/9/11, Charles Campbell wrote: From: Charles Campbell <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Dillsburg Aeroplane Works Date: Sunday, January 9, 2011, 7:28 AM ream.net> I had similar problems with Dillsburg.=C2- I had been told that I could b uy 4130 sheet for the same price that Dillsbug sells to Aircraft Spruce.=C2 - Not true.=C2- On the steel I bought from Dillsburg I could have gotte n 1/3 more from A/S at a lower price.=C2- I threw his flyer away. ----- Original Message ----- From: "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 12:20 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Dillsburg Aeroplane Works > > I=C3=A2?Tm relatively new to this game so I don=C3=A2?Tt want to seem lik e I=C3=A2?Tm complaining, but I felt that I should share my experience with Charles Vogelsong and The Dillsburg Aeroplane Works in order to save other s the frustration that a friend and I recently went through.=C2- Back in November I spent several days on the phone with Mr. Vogelsong in an attempt to get accurate quotes on several lengths of 4130 tubing.=C2- My friend and I combined our material lists in order to save on shipping... a small o rder from what we were told (over 30 full lengths and nearly $1800), but no ne the less it was everything we would need to complete our projects... and then some.=C2- Mr. Vogelsong does not have e-mail... as many of you know , everything must be confirmed by phone and then faxed to him.=C2- How he manages to supply Aircraft Spruce, Wicks and other vendors (his claim) is beyond me.=C2- Anyhow, with our sizes, quantities and final quotes nailed down, we faxed it over to him... all neatly typed in sp! > readsheet format.=C2- A Marine and an Army paratrooper... oh yeah, it w as organized... heck, my six year old could have understood it. > > A week or so goes by and I get a call from my friend... time to meet at h is place to unload the truck.=C2- We opened the carton and were surprised to find that much of the material was severely scratched... one piece even had a major dent near the center.=C2- Wow!=C2- This isn=C3=A2?Tt the t op notch stuff we were told about.=C2- In addition to that, we were short several pieces, but received more than we requested of other sizes... the prices that we were quoted had changed too.=C2- We were scratching our he ads at this point, thinking this certainly must have been an honest mistake .=C2- My friend offered to call Mr. Vogelsong to sort things out, which h e did... when he described what we had found to Vogelsong his reply was, =C3=A2?oso, what do you want me to do about it?=C3=A2?=EF=BD=C2- My fr iend told him that we would like the pieces that we were shorted, to which he replied, =C3=A2?odon=C3=A2?Tt have em... might not have those sizes unti l February.=C3=A2?=EF=BD=C2- Well, a fine time to tell us!=C2- He continued to ask, =C3=A2?oWhat do you wan! > t me to do about it?=C3=A2?=EF=BD=C2- Not as if he really wanted to work on a compromise, it was more as if he couldn=C3=A2?Tt care less about us lowly builders trying to scrape up the parts for our flying machines.=C2 - I=C3=A2?Tm not sure if he is struggling with his age or what... I=C3=A2 ?Tve heard nothing but good things about his operation and had looked forwa rd to buying from him, but this was the last time either of us will do busi ness with Dillsburg. I hope others have better experiences, but for anyone considering buying from this guy, being detailed and thorough isn=C3=A2?Tt enough... he obviously doesn=C3=A2?Tt care the way that he once did.=C2- Too bad, his outfit had a good reputation. > > -------- > Mark Chouinard > Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=326079#326079 > > > > > > > > > > > t S WEB FORUMS - on Web Site - =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- -Matt Dralle, List Admin. =0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net>
Subject: Re: Dillsburg Aeroplane Works
Date: Jan 09, 2011
Jack, I did a bit of comparative shopping. In most things, Airparts is cheaper than A/S -- in some the reverse is true. ie AN3-11 (drilled) bolt is 0.30 at Airparts and 0.49 at A/S. AN3-11A (undrilled) A/S is 0.18 where Airparts is 0.20. Airparts sells 7X19 3/32 cable for 0.34 where A/S is 0.87 (Airparts doesn't list 7X7 3/32 cable). In the future I will check both before I order. Unfortunately, I have already bought stuff from A/S that I could possibly have gotten cheaper at Airparts. Thanks for the link. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jack" <jack(at)textors.com> Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 8:21 AM Subject: RE: Re: Pietenpol-List: Dillsburg Aeroplane Works > > Can't speak to Dillsburg, but here in the Midwest KC Airparts is great! > Always friendly and helpful. Fair prices and for me one day UPS ground > shipping. They are fantastic! http://www.airpartsinc.com > Jack > DSM > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charles > Campbell > Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 6:28 AM > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Dillsburg Aeroplane Works > > > > I had similar problems with Dillsburg. I had been told that I could buy > 4130 sheet for the same price that Dillsbug sells to Aircraft Spruce. Not > true. On the steel I bought from Dillsburg I could have gotten 1/3 more > from A/S at a lower price. I threw his flyer away. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> > To: > Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 12:20 AM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Dillsburg Aeroplane Works > > >> >> I?Tm relatively new to this game so I don?Tt want to seem like I?Tm >> complaining, but I felt that I should share my experience with Charles >> Vogelsong and The Dillsburg Aeroplane Works in order to save others the >> frustration that a friend and I recently went through. Back in November >> I > >> spent several days on the phone with Mr. Vogelsong in an attempt to get >> accurate quotes on several lengths of 4130 tubing. My friend and I >> combined our material lists in order to save on shipping... a small order >> from what we were told (over 30 full lengths and nearly $1800), but none >> the less it was everything we would need to complete our projects... and >> then some. Mr. Vogelsong does not have e-mail... as many of you know, >> everything must be confirmed by phone and then faxed to him. How he >> manages to supply Aircraft Spruce, Wicks and other vendors (his claim) is >> beyond me. Anyhow, with our sizes, quantities and final quotes nailed >> down, we faxed it over to him... all neatly typed in sp! >> readsheet format. A Marine and an Army paratrooper... oh yeah, it was >> organized... heck, my six year old could have understood it. >> >> A week or so goes by and I get a call from my friend... time to meet at >> his place to unload the truck. We opened the carton and were surprised >> to > >> find that much of the material was severely scratched... one piece even >> had a major dent near the center. Wow! This isn?Tt the top notch stuff >> we were told about. In addition to that, we were short several pieces, >> but received more than we requested of other sizes... the prices that we >> were quoted had changed too. We were scratching our heads at this point, >> thinking this certainly must have been an honest mistake. My friend >> offered to call Mr. Vogelsong to sort things out, which he did... when he >> described what we had found to Vogelsong his reply was, ?oso, what do >> you > >> want me to do about it?? My friend told him that we would like the >> pieces that we were shorted, to which he replied, ?odon?Tt have em... >> might not have those sizes until February.? Well, a fine time to tell >> us! He continued to ask, ?oWhat do you wan! >> t me to do about it?? Not as if he really wanted to work on a >> compromise, it was more as if he couldn?Tt care less about us lowly >> builders trying to scrape up the parts for our flying machines. I?Tm >> not > >> sure if he is struggling with his age or what... I?Tve heard nothing but >> good things about his operation and had looked forward to buying from >> him, > >> but this was the last time either of us will do business with Dillsburg. >> I hope others have better experiences, but for anyone considering buying >> from this guy, being detailed and thorough isn?Tt enough... he obviously >> doesn?Tt care the way that he once did. Too bad, his outfit had a good >> reputation. >> >> -------- >> Mark Chouinard >> Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage >> >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=326079#326079 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Dillsburg Aeroplane Works
From: "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net>
Date: Jan 09, 2011
Jack... Airparts was also recommended, and I have their catalog on hand too. I will keep it handy in the future. Shad... All the tubing we ordered was in full lenghts (18-20 feet), which was way more than we needed, but the price breaks were enticing so we were willing to buy more and pay freight. Vogelsong lectured me several times at great length about his desire to sell full lengths rather than cut lengths, which would require him to restock the drop. Bottom line there is that he has no idea what he has on the rack, and he even told me so. There obviously aren't enough yellow pads at Office Depot to keep track of the mess he has going... another reason he might have considered a computer in the mid to late 80s. Time to give that fax machine the ol heave-ho! Can't imagine what his desk must look like. We spoke almost daily for over a week due to his changing quotes and availability issues, but each time I had to remind him who I was, spell my name, etc. Might be a little sad if it weren't my time and money that I was spending. I priced steel tube at Dillsburg, Wicks, AS&S, Airparts, Trident Metals and E.M. Jorgensen. Dillsburg was by far the cheapest, but it means absolutely nothing if the product isn't available or if it arrives in unusable condition. I lack two sizes of tubing, which I will be ordering from AS&S today. Yes, a little more expensive than Dillsburg, but the second cheapest vendor on these particular sizes. This material might have originated from Dilsburg, but will it be the same scratched and damaged stuff that WE received? I doubt that AS&S or other reputable vendors would accept such garbage. If I did receive junky stuff from AS&S, I'm confident that their people would do whatever they could to make things right... a spar comes to mind. In my profession, the products we make must work properly. If they fail to perform accurately and reliably, people lose lots of money... worst case, their lives. No one cares about cheap... they care about reliability... if we tried to sell a crappy product our business would suffer... the same is true for Dillsburg. This thread illustrates a small sample of the feedback I've received... several have sent me direct e-mails stating similar experiences. I appreciate the fact the Mr. Vogelsong is a veteran of WWII, and that he has an interesting backgroung in experimenting and supplying good products for our hobby, but he should consider getting some help in the front office, maybe even the Internet, which shouldn't add too much to his overhead and might make his catalog and ordering department more accessable. I mean really, most of us have to go out of our way to find a fax machine nowadays, and it is NO way to carry on a conversation. I'm not trying to pound on Dillsburg, but there are enough hurdles and problems to solve in this type of project. Not to mention that one of the reasons that I am building is economy... I don't appreciate getting ripped off. I am also the newsletter editor for our EAA chapter, and I am sharing this same information in this months issue with well over 100 members. Heck, I don't want them getting ripped off either! Hopefully some of them will discuss or repost this information in their circles or on their forums. Woops! Ya burnt a paratrooper that likes to type Mr. Vogelsong... bad idea. -------- Mark Chouinard Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=326105#326105 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: AMsafetyC(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 09, 2011
Subject: Re: Dillsburg Aeroplane Works
I guess he didn't remind you that he's the largest importer/supplier in the country and controls all of the 4130 supply in the country. That was a bit hard to swallow for me, but after speaking with him and listening to just how unfriendly and un leaning towards customer service he was, and thatt whole fax quote business.I decided not to order and if I really needed to buy from him I would go there and pick up what I needed. Fortunately I haven't had to do that so far. I understand from others that you would be better served to speak with his son rather then him. Apparently from what I have been told his son has a much better grasp on being cordial with the public. John In a message dated 1/9/2011 11:11:39 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, hangar10(at)cox.net writes: --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "K5YAC" Jack... Airparts was also recommended, and I have their catalog on hand too. I will keep it handy in the future. Shad... All the tubing we ordered was in full lenghts (18-20 feet), which was way more than we needed, but the price breaks were enticing so we were willing to buy more and pay freight. Vogelsong lectured me several times at great length about his desire to sell full lengths rather than cut lengths, which would require him to restock the drop. Bottom line there is that he has no idea what he has on the rack, and he even told me so. There obviously aren't enough yellow pads at Office Depot to keep track of the mess he has going... another reason he might have considered a computer in the mid to late 80s. Time to give that fax machine the ol heave-ho! Can't imagine what his desk must look like. We spoke almost daily for over a week due to his changing quotes and availability issues, but each time I had to remind him who I was, spell my name, etc. Might be a little sad if it weren't my time and money that I was spending. I priced steel tube at Dillsburg, Wicks, AS&S, Airparts, Trident Metals and E.M. Jorgensen. Dillsburg was by far the cheapest, but it means absolutely nothing if the product isn't available or if it arrives in unusable condition. I lack two sizes of tubing, which I will be ordering from AS&S today. Yes, a little more expensive than Dillsburg, but the second cheapest vendor on these particular sizes. This material might have originated from Dilsburg, but will it be the same scratched and damaged stuff that WE received? I doubt that AS&S or other reputable vendors would accept such garbage. If I did receive junky stuff from AS&S, I'm confident that their people would do whatever they could to make things right... a spar comes to mind. In my profession, the products we make must work properly. If they fail to perform accurately and reliably, people lose lots of money... worst case, their lives. No one cares about cheap... they care about reliability... if we tried to sell a crappy product our business would suffer... the same is true for Dillsburg. This thread illustrates a small sample of the feedback I've received... several have sent me direct e-mails stating similar experiences. I appreciate the fact the Mr. Vogelsong is a veteran of WWII, and that he has an interesting backgroung in experimenting and supplying good products for our hobby, but he should consider getting some help in the front office, maybe even the Internet, which shouldn't add too much to his overhead and might make his catalog and ordering department more accessable. I mean really, most of us have to go out of our way to find a fax machine nowadays, and it is NO way to carry on a conversation. I'm not trying to pound on Dillsburg, but there are enough hurdles and problems to solve in this type of project. Not to mention that one of the reasons that I am building is economy... I don't appreciate getting ripped off. I am also the newsletter editor for our EAA chapter, and I am sharing this same information in this months issue with well over 100 members. Heck, I don't want them getting ripped off either! Hopefully some of them will discuss or repost this information in their circles or on their forums. Woops! Ya burnt a paratrooper that likes to type Mr. Vogelsong... bad idea. -------- Mark Chouinard Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=326105#326105 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Dillsburg
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 09, 2011
I had always heard great things about Dillsburg, but purposely always avoid ed them for all the potential problems I expected with them not having a we bsight etc. It wasn't worth it to me. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ray Krause" <raykrause(at)frontiernet.net>
Subject: Re: definition of UHMW for Ray
Date: Jan 09, 2011
Thanks, Ken. I have saved your name/address for future reference. Ray Krause ----- Original Message ----- From: "KM Heide CPO/FAAOP" <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com> Sent: Friday, January 07, 2011 1:44 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: definition of UHMW for Ray > > > > I have plenty to go around if someone is looking for this material. We > have a surplus store that purchased 100's of pounds of this stuff in all > thicknesses. > > Ken Heide > Fargo, ND > > > --- On Fri, 1/7/11, DOMIT wrote: > >> From: DOMIT <rx7_ragtop(at)yahoo.com> >> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: definition of UHMW for Ray >> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >> Date: Friday, January 7, 2011, 11:33 AM >> --> Pietenpol-List message posted >> by: "DOMIT" >> >> Here is how you source this stuff easily: Go to >> WalMart... or your local grocery store... or the dollar >> store. Find cutting boards. That's the white >> ones. >> >> -------- >> Brad "DOMIT" Smith >> >> First rule of ground school: This is the ground... >> don't hit it going fast. >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325911#325911 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Email Forum - >> FAQ, >> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - >> List Contribution Web Site - >> -Matt >> Dralle, List Admin. >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: wing bracket
From: "Dangerous Dave" <dsornbor(at)aol.com>
Date: Jan 09, 2011
Carson,heres a pic of the bracket,dave -------- Covering Piet Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=326155#326155 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/2011_01_09_15_42_11_197_111.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 09, 2011
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Wood Gear Cable Placement
I assume from looking at the plans and seeing pictures of some wood gear Pi etenpols, that the gear cables are run from one side of the fuselage/gear t o the other only. I was thinking of running my cables not only side to side but front to back. So the front left fuselage attachment would connect to the gear at the right rear. I realize this is not nessisary, but would this be harmfull? I would think the cables in this fashion would help keep the gear from racking for and aft. (Not that this is a problem-with the Piete npol.) Michael Perez Karetaker Aero www.karetakeraero.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 09, 2011
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Arrow Fest Comes to an End
Monday is my first day back to work in almost a month. Arrow Fest was a gre at success, although I did not get as much done on the gear as I had hoped. It is a lot more involved then I ventured to guess. My tail wheel assembly ...started prior to my vacation... is 99% done and I have the fuselage and deck angle rigged in the shop. The-four gear legs are done...not shaped y et... and the assembly is attached to the fuselage.-I am working on the m etal straps that attach to the wing struts and fitting them to the fuselage /gear fittings. - I have one wheel assembly loose laced and the rim, hub, spokes and nipples for the other on hand. - I will post pictures if anyone is interested. - I have some questions that need to be answered before I proceed to much fur ther. (Postings to come.) - All in all a great build session...wish I had a few more of them this year. - Michael Perez Karetaker Aero www.karetakeraero.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Dillsburg Aeroplane Works
From: "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net>
Date: Jan 09, 2011
Oh yeah, he made sure that I was well aware of his status in the 4130 realm. I really didn't mind that so much... just took it as coming from an old fella that was proud of his accomplishments. Had I known that his mind was stuck in the glory years I might have asked to speak to someone else, or not bothered to call at all. [quote="Amsafetyc"]I guess he didn't remind you that he's the largest importer/supplier in the country and controls all of the 4130 supply in the country. That was a bit hard to swallow for me, but after speaking with him and listening to just how unfriendly and un leaning towards customer service he was, and thatt whole fax quote business.I decided not to order and if I really needed to buy from him I would go there and pick up what I needed. Fortunately I haven't had to do that so far. I understand from others that you would be better served to speak with his son rather then him. Apparently from what I have been told his son has a much better grasp on being cordial with the public. John In a message dated 1/9/2011 11:11:39 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, hangar10(at)cox.net writes: > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "K5YAC" > > Jack... Airparts was also recommended, and I have their catalog on hand too. I will keep it handy in the future. > > Shad... All the tubing we ordered was in full lenghts (18-20 feet), which was way more than we needed, but the price breaks were enticing so we were willing to buy more and pay freight. Vogelsong lectured me several times at great length about his desire to sell full lengths rather than cut lengths, which would require him to restock the drop. Bottom line there is that he has no idea what he has on the rack, and he even told me so. There obviously aren't enough yellow pads at Office Depot to keep track of the mess he has going... another reason he might have considered a computer in the mid to late 80s. Time to give that fax machine the ol heave-ho! Can't imagine what his desk must look like. We spoke almost daily for over a week due to his changing quotes and availability issues, but each time I had to remind him who I was, spell my name, etc. Might be a little sad if it weren't my time and money that I was spending. > > I priced steel tube at Dillsburg, Wicks, AS&S, Airparts, Trident Metals and E.M. Jorgensen. Dillsburg was by far the cheapest, but it means absolutely nothing if the product isn't available or if it arrives in unusable condition. I lack two sizes of tubing, which I will be ordering from AS&S today. Yes, a little more expensive than Dillsburg, but the second cheapest vendor on these particular sizes. This material might have originated from Dilsburg, but will it be the same scratched and damaged stuff that WE received? I doubt that AS&S or other reputable vendors would accept such garbage. If I did receive junky stuff from AS&S, I'm confident that their people would do whatever they could to make things right... a spar comes to mind. > > In my profession, the products we make must work properly. If they fail to perform accurately and reliably, people lose lots of money... worst case, their lives. No one cares about cheap... they care about reliability... if we tried to sell a crappy product our business would suffer... the same is true for Dillsburg. This thread illustrates a small sample of the feedback I've received... several have sent me direct e-mails stating similar experiences. I appreciate the fact the Mr. Vogelsong is a veteran of WWII, and that he has an interesting backgroung in experimenting and supplying good products for our hobby, but he should consider getting some help in the front office, maybe even the Internet, which shouldn't add too much to his overhead and might make his catalog and ordering department more accessable. I mean really, most of us have to go out of our way to find a fax machine nowadays, and it is NO way to carry on a conversation. > > I'm not trying to pound on Dillsburg, but there are enough hurdles and problems to solve in this type of project. Not to mention that one of the reasons that I am building is economy... I don't appreciate getting ripped off. I am also the newsletter editor for our EAA chapter, and I am sharing this same information in this months issue with well over 100 members. Heck, I don't want them getting ripped off either! Hopefully some of them will discuss or repost this information in their circles or on their forums. Woops! Ya burnt a paratrooper that likes to type Mr. Vogelsong... bad idea. > > -------- > Mark Chouinard > Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=326105#326105============================================== > > > > > [b] -------- Mark Chouinard Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=326165#326165 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 09, 2011
From: shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Dillsburg Aeroplane Works
Mark, I understand your frustration.- I will consider your experiance bef ore ordering any more material from Dillsburg.- I kinda picked up on his "attitude" when I ordered from him last year.- I kinda thought he was jus t the typical grumpy ole man.- I never had to deal with what your going t hrough.- Just another note, when I talked to him he did mention that all his tubing came fresh off the boat from...GULP... China.- So I kind of wo nder what kind of quality control that stuff has.- He claims it meets mil -spec but who knows for sure.- It is what it is, live and learn.- Keep on plugging away at the Piet and have fun in the process. - Shad - P.S.- a fax machine is one step above a western union telegram, and two s teps above a smoke signal.=0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Wood Gear Cable Placement
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 09, 2011
Michael, By your own admission, these cables are not necessary, so why would you wan t them on there? Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. -----Original Message----- From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> Sent: Sun, Jan 9, 2011 5:41 pm Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wood Gear Cable Placement I assume from looking at the plans and seeing pictures of some wood gear Pi etenpols, that the gear cables are run from one side of the fuselage/gear t o the other only. I was thinking of running my cables not only side to side but front to back. So the front left fuselage attachment would connect to the gear at the right rear. I realize this is not nessisary, but would this be harmfull? I would think the cables in this fashion would help keep the gear from racking for and aft. (Not that this is a problem with the Pietenp ol.) Michael Perez Karetaker Aero www.karetakeraero.com -= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List - -======================== -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -======================== -= - List Contribution Web Site - -= Thank you for your generous support! -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution -======================== ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Dillsburg Aeroplane Works
From: "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net>
Date: Jan 09, 2011
Even though it should be an obvious conclusion since we have outsourced most of our industrial capability, and they are our favorite supplier of everything from Happy Meal toys to secret missile technology (stolen then sold back)... I really didn't need to know that he actually said that. :-( aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com wrote: > > Just another note, when I talked to him he did mention that all his tubing came fresh off the boat from...GULP... China. > > Shad > [b] -------- Mark Chouinard Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=326171#326171 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Ken Perkins Tail Wheel Assembly
From: "Pieti Lowell" <Lowellcfrank(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Jan 09, 2011
I have a K. P Steerable, 360 Deg. rotation available for far less than new. Contact me on my Email Address , if interested. Pieti Lowell Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=326173#326173 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RBush96589(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 09, 2011
Subject: corvair fifth bearing upgrade
hello all, after talking with Jack Phillips the other night about my upgrade to the Roy Szarafinski fifth bearing and the reason for it, he thought with so many people considering the corvair for their piets,that I should share my experience with the list. after 188 hours engine time on my piet I had a crankshaft break,luckily it happened during the run up on the ground.but before anyone gets nervous about their decision to use the corvair I should tell everyone that before the plane was finished and while I was doing the engine test runs I did not have the tail secured properly and it nosed over and got the prop in the pavement.I ruined a beautiful brand new tn. prop,(what a sick feeling) I got the tail back down and the engine shut off before it choked the engine down.so I thought maybe being a wood prop and that I didn't kill the engine it would be o k. so I didn't tear it down and have the crank checked. So my feeling is had it not been for the prop strike there probably would not have been a crank failure in my pietenpol however I had been considering upgrading to a fifth bearing just for the extra peace of mind. and I think if I were at that stage of building I would go ahead and make the investment in one. I really like my corvair and since the addition of the fifth bearing it is really a smooth running engine,and I would not hesitate on using one again,as a matter of fact I plan on using one on the sonex I am building now. And let me add any time you have a prop strike of any kind play it safe and get the crank checked! Randy Bush NX294RB ( Miss Le Bec ) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ernie Moreno" <ewmoreno(at)minetfiber.com>
Subject: off shore tubing
Date: Jan 09, 2011
Hello everyone on the Piet list. I just finished doing some machine work on the 4130 chromoly tubing that I received from my supplier in Portland Or.for axles It is chinese in origin and although my supplier assured me that it was made to the same astm spec. as the USA made stuff is, the following is what happened. I machined my axles 16 inches in from each end approximately .0025 to make them round which they are still not perfectly round and in the process of cutting the outside surface off discovered a crack that ran almost 2.5" length ways in the tubing. I am very diapponted in the quality of this off-shore tubing and will be replacing this tubing hopefully with USA made on Monday. Also from previous experience, this metal did not cut butter smooth like the rest of the 4130 that I am accustomed to using. We tried many combinations of cutting tools and different speeds to no avail. Very difficult to work with. Ernie Moreno Piet 2431 ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael Perez To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 3:38 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wood Gear Cable Placement I assume from looking at the plans and seeing pictures of some wood gear Pietenpols, that the gear cables are run from one side of the fuselage/gear to the other only. I was thinking of running my cables not only side to side but front to back. So the front left fuselage attachment would connect to the gear at the right rear. I realize this is not nessisary, but would this be harmfull? I would think the cables in this fashion would help keep the gear from racking for and aft. (Not that this is a problem with the Pietenpol.) Michael Perez Karetaker Aero www.karetakeraero.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 01/09/11 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 09, 2011
Subject: Re: corvair fifth bearing upgrade
From: Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Howdy Randy Did you have your original crank nitrided? I have a factory nitrided crank and have been concidering the Weisman 5th bearing (just an extra $1100). Very few Piet Corvairs have 5th bearings but it seems most non-Piet (higher speed and rpm) corvairs have them. rick On Sun, Jan 9, 2011 at 7:00 PM, wrote: > hello all, > after talking with Jack Phillips the other night about my upgrade to the > Roy Szarafinski fifth bearing and the reason for it, he thought with so > many people considering the corvair for their piets,that I should share my > experience with the list. > after 188 hours engine time on my piet I had a crankshaft break,luckily > it happened during the run up on the ground.but before anyone gets nervous > about their decision to use the corvair I should tell everyone that before > the plane was finished and while I was doing the engine test runs I did not > have the tail secured properly and it nosed over and got the prop in the > pavement.I ruined a beautiful brand new tn. prop,(what a sick feeling) I > got the tail back down and the engine shut off before it choked the engine > down.so I thought maybe being a wood prop and that I didn't kill the engine > it would be o k. so I didn't tear it down and have the crank checked. > So my feeling is had it not been for the prop strike there probably > would not have been a crank failure in my pietenpol however I had been > considering upgrading to a fifth bearing just for the extra peace of mind. > and I think if I were at that stage of building I would go ahead and make > the investment in one. > I really like my corvair and since the addition of the fifth bearing it is > really a smooth running engine,and I would not hesitate on using one > again,as a matter of fact I plan on using one on the sonex I am building > now. > And let me add any time you have a prop strike of any kind play it safe > and get the crank checked! > > Randy Bush > > NX294RB > > ( Miss Le Bec ) > > * > > * > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 09, 2011
Subject: Re: off shore tubing
From: Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Is any 4130 tubing is produced in the US? On Sun, Jan 9, 2011 at 7:16 PM, Ernie Moreno wrote: > Hello everyone on the Piet list. I just finished doing some machine work > on the 4130 chromoly tubing that I received from my supplier in Portland > Or.for axles It is chinese in origin and although my supplier assured me > that it was made to the same astm spec. as the USA made stuff is, the > following is what happened. I machined my axles 16 inches in from each end > approximately .0025 to make them round which they are still not perfectly > round and in the process of cutting the outside surface off discovered a > crack that ran almost 2.5" length ways in the tubing. I am very diapponted > in the quality of this off-shore tubing and will be replacing this tubing > hopefully with USA made on Monday. Also from previous experience, this metal > did not cut butter smooth like the rest of the 4130 that I am accustomed to > using. We tried many combinations of cutting tools and different speeds to > no avail. Very difficult to work with. > > Ernie Moreno > Piet 2431 > > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Michael Perez > *To:* pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > *Sent:* Sunday, January 09, 2011 3:38 PM > *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: Wood Gear Cable Placement > > I assume from looking at the plans and seeing pictures of some wood gear > Pietenpols, that the gear cables are run from one side of the > fuselage/gear to the other only. I was thinking of running my cables not > only side to side but front to back. So the front left fuselage attachment > would connect to the gear at the right rear. I realize this is not > nessisary, but would this be harmfull? I would think the cables in this > fashion would help keep the gear from racking for and aft. (Not that this is > a problem with the Pietenpol.) > > Michael Perez > Karetaker Aero > www.karetakeraero.com > > * > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c* > > ------------------------------ > > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > * > > * > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ernie Moreno" <ewmoreno(at)minetfiber.com>
Subject: Re: off shore tubing
Date: Jan 09, 2011
I was going to buy the USA stuff but was assured by my supplier that the off shore stuff met the specs.. and that it was much more reasonable in price. We are building five aircraft with Pietenpol style landing gear My supplier said that if would cost 30% more in cost (USA supplied). I'll will report back the list after I make inquires on Monday to the outcome of this setback. Ernie Moreno Piet 2431 ---- Original Message ----- From: Rick Holland To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 7:02 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: off shore tubing Is any 4130 tubing is produced in the US? On Sun, Jan 9, 2011 at 7:16 PM, Ernie Moreno wrote: Hello everyone on the Piet list. I just finished doing some machine work on the 4130 chromoly tubing that I received from my supplier in Portland Or.for axles It is chinese in origin and although my supplier assured me that it was made to the same astm spec. as the USA made stuff is, the following is what happened. I machined my axles 16 inches in from each end approximately ..0025 to make them round which they are still not perfectly round and in the process of cutting the outside surface off discovered a crack that ran almost 2.5" length ways in the tubing. I am very diapponted in the quality of this off-shore tubing and will be replacing this tubing hopefully with USA made on Monday. Also from previous experience, this metal did not cut butter smooth like the rest of the 4130 that I am accustomed to using. We tried many combinations of cutting tools and different speeds to no avail. Very difficult to work with. Ernie Moreno Piet 2431 ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael Perez To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 3:38 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wood Gear Cable Placement I assume from looking at the plans and seeing pictures of some wood gear Pietenpols, that the gear cables are run from one side of the fuselage/gear to the other only. I was thinking of running my cables not only side to side but front to back. So the front left fuselage attachment would connect to the gear at the right rear. I realize this is not nessisary, but would this be harmfull? I would think the cables in this fashion would help keep the gear from racking for and aft. (Not that this is a problem with the Pietenpol.) Michael Perez Karetaker Aero www.karetakeraero.com href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ------------------------------------------------------------------------- - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 01/09/11 " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List tp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 01/09/11 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kip and Beth Gardner <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: off shore tubing
Date: Jan 09, 2011
Thanks Ernie, Sorry you have to go through this, but appreciate whatever you find out. If you find a supplier of good US tubing, please let us know. Kip Gardner On Jan 9, 2011, at 10:17 PM, Ernie Moreno wrote: > I was going to buy the USA stuff but was assured by my supplier that > the off shore stuff met the specs.. and that it was much more > reasonable in price. We are building five aircraft with Pietenpol > style landing gear My supplier said that if would cost 30% more in > cost (USA supplied). I'll will report back the list after I make > inquires on Monday to the outcome of this setback. > > Ernie Moreno > Piet 2431 > > ---- Original Message ----- > From: Rick Holland > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 7:02 PM > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: off shore tubing > > Is any 4130 tubing is produced in the US? > > On Sun, Jan 9, 2011 at 7:16 PM, Ernie Moreno > wrote: > Hello everyone on the Piet list. I just finished doing some machine > work on the 4130 chromoly tubing that I received from my supplier in > Portland Or.for axles It is chinese in origin and although my > supplier assured me that it was made to the same astm spec. as the > USA made stuff is, the following is what happened. I machined my > axles 16 inches in from each end approximately ..0025 to make them > round which they are still not perfectly round and in the process of > cutting the outside surface off discovered a crack that ran almost > 2.5" length ways in the tubing. I am very diapponted in the quality > of this off-shore tubing and will be replacing this tubing hopefully > with USA made on Monday. Also from previous experience, this metal > did not cut butter smooth like the rest of the 4130 that I am > accustomed to using. We tried many combinations of cutting tools and > different speeds to no avail. Very difficult to work with. > > Ernie Moreno > Piet 2431 > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Michael Perez > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 3:38 PM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wood Gear Cable Placement > > I assume from looking at the plans and seeing pictures of some wood > gear Pietenpols, that the gear cables are run from one side of the > fuselage/gear to the other only. I was thinking of running my cables > not only side to side but front to back. So the front left fuselage > attachment would connect to the gear at the right rear. I realize > this is not nessisary, but would this be harmfull? I would think the > cables in this fashion would help keep the gear from racking for and > aft. (Not that this is a problem with the Pietenpol.) > > Michael Perez > Karetaker Aero > www.karetakeraero.com > > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http:// > www.matronics.com/c > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > 01/09/11 > > > " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > tp://forums.matronics.com > _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > > -- > Rick Holland > Castle Rock, Colorado > > "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" > > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http:// > www.matronics.com/c > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > 01/09/11 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Australian Builders...?
From: "PatrickW" <pwhoyt(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Jan 09, 2011
Any Piet builders in Australia who would like to get together for a visit in a couple months...? My wife and I will be celebrating her 50th birthday in Cairns, Queensland, after which we'll slowly be making our way overland down to Sydney. We've enjoyed meeting fellow builders and have met some really good people at various places here in the US, but we've not had the opportunity to go to Australia before. Here's some of the stuff I'm working on: http://picasaweb.google.com/Patrick.hoyt Can reply to me off line at pwhoyt(at)yahoo.com Thanks, - Patrick Hoyt pwhoyt(at)yahoo.com -------- Patrick Hoyt 601XLb/Corvair N63PZ - 99.999% done.... Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=326189#326189 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Greg Cardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Wood Gear Cable Placement
Date: Jan 09, 2011
Not only is it not necessary, it would interfere with axle travel. Plus, if you look at the cable connections from a top view you will see that they are pretty much already doing what you propose. Greg C. ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael Perez To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 5:38 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wood Gear Cable Placement I assume from looking at the plans and seeing pictures of some wood gear Pietenpols, that the gear cables are run from one side of the fuselage/gear to the other only. I was thinking of running my cables not only side to side but front to back. So the front left fuselage attachment would connect to the gear at the right rear. I realize this is not nessisary, but would this be harmfull? I would think the cables in this fashion would help keep the gear from racking for and aft. (Not that this is a problem with the Pietenpol.) Michael Perez Karetaker Aero www.karetakeraero.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: wing bracket
From: "carson" <carsonvella(at)yahoo.com.au>
Date: Jan 09, 2011
Thanks Dave Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=326193#326193 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Australian Builders...?
From: "carson" <carsonvella(at)yahoo.com.au>
Date: Jan 09, 2011
Patrick I would love to but I am moving to Perth in Feb otherwise I would be on your route to syd You are welcome to pop over to Perth Carson Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=326194#326194 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Corvair Challenges and 5th Bearing
From: "kevinpurtee" <kevin.purtee(at)us.army.mil>
Date: Jan 09, 2011
Hello - while flying the other day I noticed the motor had a bit of a vibration and was down about 150 RPM. After troubleshooting, it appears I've lost compression in cylinder 3. I checked with my best engine friend and he suspects there's a burnt valve. I'm going to AZ tomorrow for a couple of months so I cannot continue the troubleshooting process right now. When I get back I'll figure out what's going on and update everyone. Since the plane's down hard I've decided to go ahead and add Dan Weseman's 5th bearing. I was going to do it in 2009 before the first flight but was not willing to wait for the parts. Dan has them in stock now. The kit is actually at the post office waiting to be picked up. Anyway, the plane runs amazingly well on 5 cylinders. Heck, it doesn't do too bad on 4, at least at idle. We're up to 178 hours. Peace, Kevin -------- Kevin "Axel" Purtee NX899KP Austin/Georgetown, TX Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=326200#326200 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Australian Builders...?
From: "bubbleboy" <scott.dawson3(at)bigpond.com>
Date: Jan 09, 2011
Hi Patrick...we are in Tamworth which is mid way between Brisbane and Sydney and about 3 hours inland. You guys are welcome to visit here anytime! Im not that advanced but maybe by then...lol Scotty www.scottyspietenpol.com -------- Scotty Tamworth, Australia Building a Corvair Powered Pietenpol Air Camper www.scottyspietenpol.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=326206#326206 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gboothe5" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Corvair Challenges and 5th Bearing
Date: Jan 10, 2011
Sorry to hear it, Axel! Guess I should start saving sheckles for a 5th bearing...And, before anyone starts flaming those valve-eating corvairs, I just got thru replacing two burnt intake valves on my 2009 Chev Silverado! Gary Boothe Corvair Powered -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of kevinpurtee Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 9:17 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Challenges and 5th Bearing Hello - while flying the other day I noticed the motor had a bit of a vibration and was down about 150 RPM. After troubleshooting, it appears I've lost compression in cylinder 3. I checked with my best engine friend and he suspects there's a burnt valve. I'm going to AZ tomorrow for a couple of months so I cannot continue the troubleshooting process right now. When I get back I'll figure out what's going on and update everyone. Since the plane's down hard I've decided to go ahead and add Dan Weseman's 5th bearing. I was going to do it in 2009 before the first flight but was not willing to wait for the parts. Dan has them in stock now. The kit is actually at the post office waiting to be picked up. Anyway, the plane runs amazingly well on 5 cylinders. Heck, it doesn't do too bad on 4, at least at idle. We're up to 178 hours. Peace, Kevin -------- Kevin "Axel" Purtee NX899KP Austin/Georgetown, TX Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=326200#326200 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Dillsburg Aeroplane Works
From: "Mr. Craig" <acwelder(at)cableone.net>
Date: Jan 10, 2011
Amsafetyc wrote: > I understand from others that you would be better served to speak with his son rather then him. Apparently from what I have been told his son has a much better grasp on being cordial with the public. > > John Anyone know the son's name? -------- A goal without a plan is nothing more than a wish. -- orion Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=326215#326215 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: corvair fifth bearing upgrade
Date: Jan 10, 2011
Thanks for posting this, Randy. I think many Pietenpol builders using or contemplating using the Corvair have the VERY mistaken idea that excessive prop loads are more of a problem with faster aircraft like a KR-2 or a Zenith than they are with a Pietenpol, and that the 5th bearing for a Pietenpol falls into the =93nice to have=94 category, but is not necessary. This is absolutely ludicrous. The reason for large bearings supporting the crankshaft near the propeller is the presence of assymetric loads produced by the propeller during operation, and these loads are produced (as any pilot knows) by two factors: Gyroscopic forces and =93P=94 Factor. Of these two, I suspect that the biggest problem is the gyroscopic loading. Gyroscopic loading occurs when a spinning object (in this case, the propeller) is moved by a force exerted on its axis. In an airplane, such movement is caused by raising or lowering the nose in maneuvers, or by simply turning the airplane. One of the peculiarities of gyroscopes is that if a load is applied to the axis or rotation, the gyroscope responds by producing a reaction force 90=B0 from the applied force. This is one reason that raising the nose of the airplane makes the plane want to turn left (right, if powered by an engine that turns the =93wrong way=94, such as a Corvair). This reaction force is proportional in strength to the RATE of turn imposed on the gyroscope. Again, as any pilot knows, the slower the airplane, the greater the rate of turn possible. I thoroughly enjoy putting my Pietenpol into a very tight turn at full throttle, standing the airplane on its wingtip and seeing just how fast I can turn it. The turn rate is astounding (and fun!), and it is possible to do a complete 360=B0 turn in just a few seconds ' something I simply can=92t do with my RV-4 because it is too fast. Such a high rate of turn puts loads on that prop that a fast airplane simply can=92t match. A Pietenpol is capable of inducing HUGE loads on its propeller. I question if even the 5th bearing gives sufficient bearing area to resist the gyroscopic loadaing of a Pietenpol propeller. If you look at the 5th bearing available from Weseman=92s, which is external to the crankcase, or from Roy=92s garage, which is internal, neither has a terribly large bearing area ' maybe 1-1/2=94 of crankshaft length at best. Compare that to the front main bearing of a 65 Continental aircraft engine as shown below: That bearing is very large compared to any of the bearings on a Corvair. In addition, the Continental crankcase is much stronger, since it completely encircles the crankshaft, giving good support to the bearings ' particularly =93up front=94. The Corvair case on the other hand, is open top and bottom and simply is not as stiff as the Continental. Anyway ' the purpose of this email is not to disparage the Corvair, but to try to correct the erroneous impression that many Piet builders seem to have that the 5th bearing is not needed on a Corvair in a Pietenpol. Randy=92s broken crank may or may not have been caused by his prop strike, or the prop strike just did quickly what would otherwise have taken a few hundred hours to do ' overload the crankshaft and cause it to fail due to inadequate support for large moment loading. If you are building a Pietenpol and planning to use a Corvair engine, please put a 5th bearing in. And as John Hofmann would say, consider adding the 6th and 7th bearings as well. If you haven=92t yet decided on an engine but are leaning towards the Corvair, put the cost of adding the 5th bearing into your calculations and you will probably find the total cost of the Corvair to be much the same as for a Continental. Jack Phillips NX899JP =93Icarus Plummet=94 Raleigh, NC _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of RBush96589(at)aol.com Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 9:00 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: corvair fifth bearing upgrade hello all, after talking with Jack Phillips the other night about my upgrade to the Roy Szarafinski fifth bearing and the reason for it, he thought with so many people considering the corvair for their piets,that I should share my experience with the list. after 188 hours engine time on my piet I had a crankshaft break,luckily it happened during the run up on the ground.but before anyone gets nervous about their decision to use the corvair I should tell everyone that before the plane was finished and while I was doing the engine test runs I did not have the tail secured properly and it nosed over and got the prop in the pavement.I ruined a beautiful brand new tn. prop,(what a sick feeling) I got the tail back down and the engine shut off before it choked the engine down.so I thought maybe being a wood prop and that I didn't kill the engine it would be o k. so I didn't tear it down and have the crank checked. So my feeling is had it not been for the prop strike there probably would not have been a crank failure in my pietenpol however I had been considering upgrading to a fifth bearing just for the extra peace of mind. and I think if I were at that stage of building I would go ahead and make the investment in one. I really like my corvair and since the addition of the fifth bearing it is really a smooth running engine,and I would not hesitate on using one again,as a matter of fact I plan on using one on the sonex I am building now. And let me add any time you have a prop strike of any kind play it safe and get the crank checked! Randy Bush NX294RB ( Miss Le Bec ) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 10, 2011
From: airlion <airlion(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Ken Perkins Tail Wheel Assembly
Piete,I am interested..Could you post a pic and price? Gardiner Mason --- On Sun, 1/9/11, Pieti Lowell wrote: > From: Pieti Lowell <Lowellcfrank(at)yahoo.com> > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Ken Perkins Tail Wheel Assembly > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Date: Sunday, January 9, 2011, 9:01 PM > --> Pietenpol-List message posted > by: "Pieti Lowell" > > I have a K. P Steerable, 360 Deg. rotation available for > far less than new. > Contact me on my Email Address , if interested. > Pieti Lowell > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=326173#326173 > > > > > > > > Email Forum - > FAQ, > - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - > List Contribution Web Site - > -Matt > Dralle, List Admin. > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 10, 2011
From: airlion <airlion(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Corvair Challenges and 5th Bearing
Kevin, when I lost power and able to maintain 200 ft I found out on the ground that two plug wires had come off, I have since safetied the wires so they won't flop around. I also wire tied them to the plugs`. ok SO FAR. Gardiner --- On Mon, 1/10/11, kevinpurtee wrote: > From: kevinpurtee <kevin.purtee(at)us.army.mil> > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Challenges and 5th Bearing > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Date: Monday, January 10, 2011, 12:17 AM > --> Pietenpol-List message posted > by: "kevinpurtee" > > Hello - while flying the other day I noticed the motor had > a bit of a vibration and was down about 150 RPM. After > troubleshooting, it appears I've lost compression in > cylinder 3. I checked with my best engine friend and > he suspects there's a burnt valve. I'm going to AZ > tomorrow for a couple of months so I cannot continue the > troubleshooting process right now. When I get back > I'll figure out what's going on and update everyone. > > Since the plane's down hard I've decided to go ahead and > add Dan Weseman's 5th bearing. I was going to do it in > 2009 before the first flight but was not willing to wait for > the parts. Dan has them in stock now. The kit is > actually at the post office waiting to be picked up. > > Anyway, the plane runs amazingly well on 5 cylinders. > Heck, it doesn't do too bad on 4, at least at idle. > We're up to 178 hours. > > Peace, > Kevin > > -------- > Kevin "Axel" Purtee > NX899KP > Austin/Georgetown, TX > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=326200#326200 > > > > > > > > Email Forum - > FAQ, > - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - > List Contribution Web Site - > -Matt > Dralle, List Admin. > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Dillsburg Aeroplane Works
From: "Piet2112" <curtdm(at)gmail.com>
Date: Jan 10, 2011
Right before Christmas, AS&S was running a special for free shipping on $200 or more and 50 lb. weight and size restrictions applied. They waived the "under 4 foot" restriction so I could order 4 foot lengths of tubing. My total was about $220 and no shipping. It came in at just under 50 lbs. I know I'll have to place another order for mistakes, but the price was right for what I got. Curt Merdan Flower Mound, TX Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=326240#326240 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 10, 2011
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Please Check My Math (alum.wing strut)
I am trying to figure out bolt hole edge spacing for my aluminum wing strut s. These struts are the small struts from Carlson Aircraft.- Doing the ma th, from the info. at the site, I get a wall thickness of the strut at .119 ".- Since the bolt would have to pull through both walls, that number is now .238". I am going to assume that my plane's weight will be 1000# and my weight wil l be 200#. (I am 165# actually) for total weight of 1200#. The plans show using a 5/16" bolt. (.3125")- 2X bolt diameter minus 1/2 o f a bolt diameter yields a hole edge spacing of- .625 - .15625 = .46875 " .46875 X .238 (strut wall thickness) = .1115625 square inches. .1115625 X 11637 (SHEAR listed on the website for the small strut) = 1298 lbs. My 1200# plane at 4Gs is 4800#. Each lift strut will see about 1200 lbs eac h. (?) My aluminum struts with the 2 diameter bolt edge spacing should be able to handle 1298 lbs each...which is good for a 1200# plane at 4Gs. If I use an edge spacing of 1/2" even, then the new number is 1384# per str ut. Thanks for any help advice. Michael Perez =0AKaretaker Aero =0Awww.karetakeraero.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 10, 2011
From: Jim Boyer <boyerjrb(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Corvair Challenges and 5th Bearing
Hi Kevin, I have a Dan Weseman 5th bearing on my Corvair. The installation was staight forward and was easy to do. Its not running yet but from looking at the crank it is supported far more and with much more bearing surface than stock. Cheers, Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: "kevinpurtee" <kevin.purtee(at)us.army.mil> Sent: Sunday, January 9, 2011 9:17:03 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Challenges and 5th Bearing Hello - while flying the other day I noticed the motor had a bit of a vibration and was down about 150 RPM. After troubleshooting, it appears I've lost compression in cylinder 3. I checked with my best engine friend and he suspects there's a burnt valve. I'm going to AZ tomorrow for a couple of months so I cannot continue the troubleshooting process right now. When I get back I'll figure out what's going on and update everyone. Since the plane's down hard I've decided to go ahead and add Dan Weseman's 5th bearing. I was going to do it in 2009 before the first flight but was not willing to wait for the parts. Dan has them in stock now. The kit is actually at the post office waiting to be picked up. Anyway, the plane runs amazingly well on 5 cylinders. Heck, it doesn't do too bad on 4, at least at idle. We're up to 178 hours. Peace, Kevin -------- Kevin "Axel" Purtee NX899KP Austin/Georgetown, TX Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=326200#326200 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: FW: RV10-List: Airfoil Drag Video...
Date: Jan 10, 2011
Here's a very interesting video demonstrating why a Pietenpol is so slow. Think of all the wires on a Piet after watching this video. Wire spokes don't help much either. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftq8jTQ8ANE Jack Phillips NX899JP "Icarus Plummet" Raleigh, NC ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 10, 2011
Subject: Re: corvair fifth bearing upgrade
From: Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
When I asked Dan Weseman for his opinion about the need for a 5th bearing i n a Piet he asked me to consider this scenario - you are 10 or so feet off th e deck and decide you are getting close to stalling and add full power to go around then stall and hit the runway hard under full power. I have done tha t a couple times in 150s. The forces on the crank are tremendous and it has nothing to do with how fast or slow or heavy or light an aircraft you have. On the other hand many corvairs have flown hundreds of hours without 5th bearings and only a very small percentage have had crank problems. And Lycomings and Continentals with 3 inch front bearings have also had a small percentage of crank breakage problems. Also the AeroVee VW engine sold by Sonex has only a stock size front bearing similar to the stock corvair. The y had a few broken cranks when they were using 3rd party crankshafts but clai m to have zero problems since going to there own design nitrided crank. I hav e asked them why they don't offer a large front bearing like the Great Plains VW ForceOne they said it is not needed. They have hundreds of AeroVees flying (which are mostly in fully aerobatic Sonex aircraft). All the complete corvair engines that WW sells now includes a 5th bearing including his lowest cost version, as Jack has said it would be highly recommended to include the cost of the 5th bearing in any corvair conversio n decision. I have about $6000 in my corvair and a Weseman bearing will bring that up to $7100. And yes a C-65 can be built for that much however I neede d more power than that so my decision came down to coming up with around $10,000 or more for an O-200 or the corvair. rick On Mon, Jan 10, 2011 at 5:37 AM, Jack Phillips wrot e: > Thanks for posting this, Randy. I think many Pietenpol builders using o r > contemplating using the Corvair have the VERY mistaken idea that excessiv e > prop loads are more of a problem with faster aircraft like a KR-2 or a > Zenith than they are with a Pietenpol, and that the 5th bearing for a > Pietenpol falls into the =93nice to have=94 category, but is not necessar y. > This is absolutely ludicrous. > > > The reason for large bearings supporting the crankshaft near the propelle r > is the presence of assymetric loads produced by the propeller during > operation, and these loads are produced (as any pilot knows) by two > factors: Gyroscopic forces and =93P=94 Factor. Of these two, I suspect that > the biggest problem is the gyroscopic loading. Gyroscopic loading occurs > when a spinning object (in this case, the propeller) is moved by a force > exerted on its axis. In an airplane, such movement is caused by raising or > lowering the nose in maneuvers, or by simply turning the airplane. One o f > the peculiarities of gyroscopes is that if a load is applied to the axis or > rotation, the gyroscope responds by producing a reaction force 90=B0 from the > applied force. This is one reason that raising the nose of the airplane > makes the plane want to turn left (right, if powered by an engine that tu rns > the =93wrong way=94, such as a Corvair). This reaction force is proporti onal in > strength to the RATE of turn imposed on the gyroscope. Again, as any pil ot > knows, the slower the airplane, the greater the rate of turn possible. I > thoroughly enjoy putting my Pietenpol into a very tight turn at full > throttle, standing the airplane on its wingtip and seeing just how fast I > can turn it. The turn rate is astounding (and fun!), and it is possible to > do a complete 360=B0 turn in just a few seconds ' something I simply ca n=92t do > with my RV-4 because it is too fast. > > > Such a high rate of turn puts loads on that prop that a fast airplane > simply can=92t match. A Pietenpol is capable of inducing HUGE loads on i ts > propeller. > > > I question if even the 5th bearing gives sufficient bearing area to resis t > the gyroscopic loadaing of a Pietenpol propeller. If you look at the 5th bearing available from Weseman=92s, which is external to the crankcase, or > from Roy=92s garage, which is internal, neither has a terribly large bear ing > area ' maybe 1-1/2=94 of crankshaft length at best. Compare that to th e front > main bearing of a 65 Continental aircraft engine as shown below: > > > That bearing is very large compared to any of the bearings on a Corvair. > In addition, the Continental crankcase is much stronger, since it complet ely > encircles the crankshaft, giving good support to the bearings ' particu larly > =93up front=94. The Corvair case on the other hand, is open top and bott om and > simply is not as stiff as the Continental. > > > Anyway ' the purpose of this email is not to disparage the Corvair, but to > try to correct the erroneous impression that many Piet builders seem to h ave > that the 5th bearing is not needed on a Corvair in a Pietenpol. Randy=92 s > broken crank may or may not have been caused by his prop strike, or the p rop > strike just did quickly what would otherwise have taken a few hundred hou rs > to do ' overload the crankshaft and cause it to fail due to inadequate > support for large moment loading. > > > If you are building a Pietenpol and planning to use a Corvair engine, > please put a 5th bearing in. And as John Hofmann would say, consider > adding the 6th and 7th bearings as well. If you haven=92t yet decided on an > engine but are leaning towards the Corvair, put the cost of adding the 5t hbearing into your calculations and you will probably find the total cost o f > the Corvair to be much the same as for a Continental. > > > Jack Phillips > > NX899JP =93Icarus Plummet=94 > > Raleigh, NC > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto: > owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of * > RBush96589(at)aol.com > *Sent:* Sunday, January 09, 2011 9:00 PM > *To:* pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: corvair fifth bearing upgrade > > > hello all, > > after talking with Jack Phillips the other night about my upgrade to t he > Roy Szarafinski fifth bearing and the reason for it, he thought with so > many people considering the corvair for their piets,that I should share m y > experience with the list. > > after 188 hours engine time on my piet I had a crankshaft break,lucki ly > it happened during the run up on the ground.but before anyone gets nervou s > about their decision to use the corvair I should tell everyone that befor e > the plane was finished and while I was doing the engine test runs I did n ot > have the tail secured properly and it nosed over and got the prop in the > pavement.I ruined a beautiful brand new tn. prop,(what a sick feeling) I > got the tail back down and the engine shut off before it choked the engin e > down.so I thought maybe being a wood prop and that I didn't kill the engi ne > it would be o k. so I didn't tear it down and have the crank checked. > > So my feeling is had it not been for the prop strike there probably > would not have been a crank failure in my pietenpol however I had been > considering upgrading to a fifth bearing just for the extra peace of mind . > and I think if I were at that stage of building I would go ahead and make > the investment in one. > > I really like my corvair and since the addition of the fifth bearing it is > really a smooth running engine,and I would not hesitate on using one > again,as a matter of fact I plan on using one on the sonex I am building > now. > > And let me add any time you have a prop strike of any kind play it safe > and get the crank checked! > > > Randy Bush > > > NX294RB > > > ( Miss Le Bec ) > > * * > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Please Check My Math (alum.wing strut)
Date: Jan 10, 2011
Michael, how are you arriving at 1200 lbs per strut at 4 G=92s? I could see that if your struts were vertical (in line with the lift load). They are not, and since they are at an angle from the horizontal, each strut will see a load equal to the lift load at that point divided by the sine of the angle. For most Pietenpols, the angle is about 30=B0 and the sine of 30=B0 is .50, so if all four struts are carrying a quarter of the total load (they=92re not ' the front struts tend to carry more than the rears, due to the position of the center of pressure, and the pressure distribution curve), and the total load is 4800 lbs, each strut is carrying 1200/.5 or 2400 lbs. Without knowing the pressure distribution on the wing, I would assume for safety=92s sake that the front struts are carrying 2/3 of the load and the rear struts only 1/3. If that is the case, then the load at each front strut fitting on the wing at 4 g=92s with a 1200 lb gross weight would be 2/3 (2400) or 1600 lbs. This is assuming that each wing panel is generating half the lift or 2400 lbs, and the centersection is adding nothing, so again this is a conservative assumption. If the lift load at the front strut is 1600 lbs, the load in the strut itself will be twice that (if the angle is 30=B0) or 3200 lbs. Quite a bit different than the 1200 lbs you were calculating. Jack Phillips NX899JP =93Icarus Plummet=94 Raleigh, NC _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael Perez Sent: Monday, January 10, 2011 11:43 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Please Check My Math (alum.wing strut) I am trying to figure out bolt hole edge spacing for my aluminum wing struts. These struts are the small struts from Carlson Aircraft. Doing the math, from the info. at the site, I get a wall thickness of the strut at .119". Since the bolt would have to pull through both walls, that number is now .238". I am going to assume that my plane's weight will be 1000# and my weight will be 200#. (I am 165# actually) for total weight of 1200#. The plans show using a 5/16" bolt. (.3125") 2X bolt diameter minus 1/2 of a bolt diameter yields a hole edge spacing of .625 - .15625 = .46875" .46875 X .238 (strut wall thickness) = .1115625 square inches. .1115625 X 11637 (SHEAR listed on the website for the small strut) = 1298 lbs. My 1200# plane at 4Gs is 4800#. Each lift strut will see about 1200 lbs each. (?) My aluminum struts with the 2 diameter bolt edge spacing should be able to handle 1298 lbs each...which is good for a 1200# plane at 4Gs. If I use an edge spacing of 1/2" even, then the new number is 1384# per strut. Thanks for any help advice. Michael Perez Karetaker Aero www.karetakeraero.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 10, 2011
Subject: Re: Corvair Challenges and 5th Bearing
From: Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Jim Can you install the Weseman bearing with the engine still in the engine mount on the fuselage? rick (crank snapping and value eating corvair owner) On Mon, Jan 10, 2011 at 10:00 AM, Jim Boyer wrote: > > Hi Kevin, > I have a Dan Weseman 5th bearing on my Corvair. The installation was > staight forward and was easy to do. Its not running yet but from looking at > the crank it is supported far more and with much more bearing surface than > stock. > Cheers, > Jim > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "kevinpurtee" <kevin.purtee(at)us.army.mil> > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Sent: Sunday, January 9, 2011 9:17:03 PM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Challenges and 5th Bearing > > kevin.purtee(at)us.army.mil> > > Hello - while flying the other day I noticed the motor had a bit of a > vibration and was down about 150 RPM. After troubleshooting, it appears > I've lost compression in cylinder 3. I checked with my best engine friend > and he suspects there's a burnt valve. I'm going to AZ tomorrow for a > couple of months so I cannot continue the troubleshooting process right now. > When I get back I'll figure out what's going on and update everyone. > > Since the plane's down hard I've decided to go ahead and add Dan Weseman's > 5th bearing. I was going to do it in 2009 before the first flight but was > not willing to wait for the parts. Dan has them in stock now. The kit is > actually at the post office waiting to be picked up. > > Anyway, the plane runs amazingly well on 5 cylinders. Heck, it doesn't do > too bad on 4, at least at idle. We're up to 178 hours. > > Peace, > Kevin > > -------- > Kevin "Axel" Purtee > NX899KP > Austin/Georgetown, TX > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=326200#326200 > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 10, 2011
From: airlion <airlion(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: FW: RV10-List: Airfoil Drag Video...
I also think that is very interesting, and I am in the process of streamlining my landing gear legs and all the flying wires. I'll let ya'll know if it works. After all we won't know if it is not tried. Cheers, Gardiner Mason in snowed in Atlanta. --- On Mon, 1/10/11, Jack Phillips wrote: > From: Jack Phillips <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> > Subject: Pietenpol-List: FW: RV10-List: Airfoil Drag Video... > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Date: Monday, January 10, 2011, 12:53 PM > Here's a very interesting video > demonstrating why a Pietenpol is so slow. > Think of all the wires on a Piet after watching this > video. Wire spokes > don't help much either. > > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftq8jTQ8ANE > > > Jack Phillips > NX899JP "Icarus Plummet" > Raleigh, NC > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 10, 2011
Subject: Re: Corvair Challenges and 5th Bearing
From: Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Sorry to hear that Kevin, did you have Falcon do your heads? rick On Sun, Jan 9, 2011 at 10:17 PM, kevinpurtee wrote: > kevin.purtee(at)us.army.mil> > > Hello - while flying the other day I noticed the motor had a bit of a > vibration and was down about 150 RPM. After troubleshooting, it appears > I've lost compression in cylinder 3. I checked with my best engine friend > and he suspects there's a burnt valve. I'm going to AZ tomorrow for a > couple of months so I cannot continue the troubleshooting process right now. > When I get back I'll figure out what's going on and update everyone. > > Since the plane's down hard I've decided to go ahead and add Dan Weseman's > 5th bearing. I was going to do it in 2009 before the first flight but was > not willing to wait for the parts. Dan has them in stock now. The kit is > actually at the post office waiting to be picked up. > > Anyway, the plane runs amazingly well on 5 cylinders. Heck, it doesn't do > too bad on 4, at least at idle. We're up to 178 hours. > > Peace, > Kevin > > -------- > Kevin "Axel" Purtee > NX899KP > Austin/Georgetown, TX > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=326200#326200 > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 10, 2011
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: FW: RV10-List: Airfoil Drag Video...
GREAT! I need some air foil shaped cable, (at no extra $$ the standard cable) and some air foil shaped spokes...or maybe I should just trash my brand new wheels altogether... Michael Perez Karetaker Aero www.karetakeraero.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 10, 2011
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Please Check My Math (alum.wing strut)
Thanks Jack. I hoped you would chime in...this building process is a great learning tool for me. Michael Perez Karetaker Aero www.karetakeraero.com - ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 10, 2011
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Wood Gear Cable Placement
Yes, that too... Michael Perez Karetaker Aero www.karetakeraero.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 10, 2011
Subject: Re: Tail wheel
From: Earnest Bunbury <ebunburyesq(at)gmail.com>
We've used both a Maule and a Scott, both 6-in., full-swivel, steerable, with detent. The Scott came with the plane and was a bit squirrelly. The Maule was a gift from one of the guys at the field. It works "better" but both of them are heavy and way over-engineered for the purpose. If you're going with a new set-up, I would buy the lightest that can handle the load or build from scratch. There are some cool solutions out there, some of which are shown at westcoastpiet, as Kevin mentioned. What sort of class are the kids in? Is this a shop class or an aviation-oriented class? Good luck and keep us updated! ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 10, 2011
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Wing Strut Fork End
I see those using aluminum wing struts use an insert that is threaded for a fork end. Those that used aluminum for the threaded insert...what type alu minum did you use?- (6061, 7050, 7075, etc.) Looking at fork ends...I am curious if a turnbuckle fork end would suffice for the wing strut fork? The -46 turnbuckle assemblies are rated at 4600#.. .I would guess that the components that make up that assembly are rated the same. (barrel, fork end, cable eye, pin eye, etc.) There are larger forks as well, -61 and -80. The -46 forks have a .250" opening with a 5/16" hole. All of these are substantially less money then the Piper forks shown in the AS&S catalog. Michael Perez Karetaker Aero www.karetakeraero.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 10, 2011
From: norm <coevst(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: corvair fifth bearing upgrade
Corvair cranks were known to break in cars , they had rivited flywheels and the =0Arivets would loosen and make quite a knocking sound ,also if the wr ong damper =0Apulley was installed it could cause a break, tough to know if you have one thats =0Abeen-hammerd for a-number-of- years .Older b uilders are aware of this..Norm=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A_____________________________ ___=0AFrom: Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>=0ATo: pietenpol-list@matronic s.com=0ASent: Sun, January 9, 2011 9:59:23 PM=0ASubject: Re: Pietenpol-List : corvair fifth bearing upgrade=0A=0AHowdy Randy=0A=0ADid you have your ori ginal crank nitrided? I have a factory nitrided crank and =0Ahave been conc idering the Weisman 5th bearing (just an extra $1100). Very few =0APiet Cor vairs have 5th bearings but it seems most non-Piet (higher speed and =0Arpm ) corvairs have them.=0A=0Arick=0A=0A=0AOn Sun, Jan 9, 2011 at 7:00 PM, wrote:=0A=0Ahello all,=0A>-- after talking with Jack Phillips the other night about my upgrade to the Roy =0A>Szarafinski fifth bearing- and the reason for it, he thought with so many people =0A>consid ering the corvair-for their piets,that I should share my experience with =0A>the list.--------=0A>--- after 188 hours engine t ime on my piet I had a crankshaft break,luckily it =0A>happened during the run up on the ground.but before anyone gets nervous about =0A>their decisio n to use the corvair I should tell everyone that before the plane =0A>was f inished and while I was doing the engine test runs I did not have the tail =0A>secured properly and it nosed over and got the prop in the pavement.I r uined a =0A>beautiful brand new tn. prop,(what a sick feeling) I got-the tail back down and =0A>the engine shut off before it-choked the engine do wn.so I thought maybe being a =0A>wood prop and that I didn't kill the engi ne it would be o k. so I didn't tear it =0A>down-and have the crank check ed.=0A>-- So my feeling is had it not been for the prop strike there pr obably would not =0A>have been a crank failure in my pietenpol however I ha d been considering =0A>upgrading to a fifth bearing just for the extra peac e of mind. and I think if I =0A>were at that stage of building I would go a head and make the investment in one.=0A>-I really like my corvair and sin ce the addition of the fifth bearing it is =0A>really a smooth running engi ne,and I would not hesitate on using one again,as a =0A>matter of fact I pl an on using one on the sonex I am building now.=0A>- And let me add any t ime you have a prop strike of any kind play it safe and =0A>get the crank c hecked!=0A>--------------------- ------------------------- ------------------------- ------------------------- ------------=0A> Randy Bush=0A>------ ------------------------- ------------------------- ------------------------- ------------------------- ----NX294RB=0A>=0A>---------------- ------------------------- ------------------------- ------------------------- -----------------=0A> ( Miss Le Bec )- =0A> " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List =0A>tp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contributio n =0A>=0A=0A=0A-- =0ARick Holland=0ACastle Rock, Colorado=0A=0A"Logic is a ====== =0A=0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 10, 2011
From: Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Please Check My Math (alum.wing strut)
So Jack (or anyone for that matter), How much (if any) of that load would you expect to be carried by those 1/8" diagonal/Xbracing wires between the lift struts? Any of it? JM -----Original Message----- From: Jack Phillips Sent: Jan 10, 2011 12:09 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Please Check My Math (alum.wing strut) Michael, how are you arriving at 1200 lbs per strut at 4 Gs? I could see that if your struts were vertical (in line with the lift load). They are not, and since they are at an angle from the horizontal, each strut will see a load equal to the lift load at that point divided by the sine of the angle. For most Pietenpols, the angle is about 30 and the sine of 30 is .50, so if all four struts are carrying a quarter of the total load (theyre not the front struts tend to carry more than the rears, due to the position of the center of pressure, and the pressure distribution curve), and the total load is 4800 lbs, each strut is carrying 1200/.5 or 2400 lbs. Without knowing the pressure distribution on the wing, I would assume for safetys sake that the front struts are carrying 2/3 of the load and the rear struts only 1/3. If that is the case, then the load at each front strut fitting on the wing at 4 gs with a 1200 lb gross weight would be 2/3 (2400) or 1600 lbs. This is assuming that each wing panel is generating half the lift or 2400 lbs, and the centersection is adding nothing, so again this is a conservative assumption. If the lift load at the front strut is 1600 lbs, the load in the strut itself will be twice that (if the angle is 30) or 3200 lbs. Quite a bit different than the 1200 lbs you were calculating. Jack Phillips NX899JP Icarus Plummet Raleigh, NC From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael Perez Sent: Monday, January 10, 2011 11:43 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Please Check My Math (alum.wing strut) I am trying to figure out bolt hole edge spacing for my aluminum wing struts. These struts are the small struts from Carlson Aircraft. Doing the math, from the info. at the site, I get a wall thickness of the strut at .119". Since the bolt would have to pull through both walls, that number is now .238". I am going to assume that my plane's weight will be 1000# and my weight will be 200#. (I am 165# actually) for total weight of 1200#. The plans show using a 5/16" bolt. (.3125") 2X bolt diameter minus 1/2 of a bolt diameter yields a hole edge spacing of .625 - .15625 = .46875" .46875 X .238 (strut wall thickness) = .1115625 square inches. .1115625 X 11637 (SHEAR listed on the website for the small strut) = 1298 lbs. My 1200# plane at 4Gs is 4800#. Each lift strut will see about 1200 lbs each. (?) My aluminum struts with the 2 diameter bolt edge spacing should be able to handle 1298 lbs each...which is good for a 1200# plane at 4Gs. If I use an edge spacing of 1/2" even, then the new number is 1384# per strut. Thanks for any help advice. Michael Perez Karetaker Aero www.karetakeraero.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Please Check My Math (alum.wing strut)
Date: Jan 10, 2011
Some load can certainly be carried by the wires, but that's not what they are there for, and I sure wouldn't count on them to hold your wing on. Cables have a goodly amount of stretch to them and they won't begin to carry much load until they've been stretched enough that the other fittings on the struts have failed. The purpose of those wires is to keep the wing from racking fore and aft (about the yaw axis) - not to carry the lift loads. Jack Phillips NX899JP "Icarus Plummet" Raleigh, NC -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Markle Sent: Monday, January 10, 2011 3:02 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Please Check My Math (alum.wing strut) So Jack (or anyone for that matter), How much (if any) of that load would you expect to be carried by those 1/8" diagonal/Xbracing wires between the lift struts? Any of it? JM -----Original Message----- From: Jack Phillips Sent: Jan 10, 2011 12:09 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Please Check My Math (alum.wing strut) Michael, how are you arriving at 1200 lbs per strut at 4 Gs? I could see that if your struts were vertical (in line with the lift load). They are not, and since they are at an angle from the horizontal, each strut will see a load equal to the lift load at that point divided by the sine of the angle. For most Pietenpols, the angle is about 30 and the sine of 30 is .50, so if all four struts are carrying a quarter of the total load (theyre not the front struts tend to carry more than the rears, due to the position of the center of pressure, and the pressure distribution curve), and the total load is 4800 lbs, each strut is carrying 1200/.5 or 2400 lbs. Without knowing the pressure distribution on the wing, I would assume for safetys sake that the front struts are carrying 2/3 of the load and the rear struts only 1/3. If that is the case, then the load at each front strut fitting on the wing at 4 gs with a 1200 lb gross weight would be 2/3 (2400) or 1600 lbs. This is assuming that each wing panel is generating half the lift or 2400 lbs, and the centersection is adding nothing, so again this is a conservative assumption. If the lift load at the front strut is 1600 lbs, the load in the strut itself will be twice that (if the angle is 30) or 3200 lbs. Quite a bit different than the 1200 lbs you were calculating. Jack Phillips NX899JP Icarus Plummet Raleigh, NC From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael Perez Sent: Monday, January 10, 2011 11:43 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Please Check My Math (alum.wing strut) I am trying to figure out bolt hole edge spacing for my aluminum wing struts. These struts are the small struts from Carlson Aircraft. Doing the math, from the info. at the site, I get a wall thickness of the strut at .119". Since the bolt would have to pull through both walls, that number is now .238". I am going to assume that my plane's weight will be 1000# and my weight will be 200#. (I am 165# actually) for total weight of 1200#. The plans show using a 5/16" bolt. (.3125") 2X bolt diameter minus 1/2 of a bolt diameter yields a hole edge spacing of .625 - .15625 = .46875" .46875 X .238 (strut wall thickness) = .1115625 square inches. .1115625 X 11637 (SHEAR listed on the website for the small strut) = 1298 lbs. My 1200# plane at 4Gs is 4800#. Each lift strut will see about 1200 lbs each. (?) My aluminum struts with the 2 diameter bolt edge spacing should be able to handle 1298 lbs each...which is good for a 1200# plane at 4Gs. If I use an edge spacing of 1/2" even, then the new number is 1384# per strut. Thanks for any help advice. Michael Perez Karetaker Aero www.karetakeraero.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net>
Subject: Re: Please Check My Math (alum.wing strut)
Date: Jan 10, 2011
My plans call for 3/16" diagonal/xbracing wires. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> Sent: Monday, January 10, 2011 3:01 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Please Check My Math (alum.wing strut) > > > So Jack (or anyone for that matter), > > How much (if any) of that load would you expect to be carried by those > 1/8" diagonal/Xbracing wires between the lift struts? > > Any of it? > > JM > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Jack Phillips > > Sent: Jan 10, 2011 12:09 PM > > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > > Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Please Check My Math (alum.wing strut) > > > Michael, how are you arriving at 1200 lbs > per strut at 4 Gs? > > > I could see that if your struts were > vertical (in line with the lift load). They are not, and since they are > at an > angle from the horizontal, each strut will see a load equal to the lift > load at > that point divided by the sine of the angle. For most Pietenpols, the > angle is > about 30 and the sine of 30 is .50, so if all four struts are carrying a > quarter of the total load (theyre not the front struts tend to > carry more than the rears, due to the position of the center of pressure, > and > the pressure distribution curve), and the total load is 4800 lbs, each > strut is > carrying 1200/.5 or 2400 lbs. > > > Without knowing the pressure distribution > on the wing, I would assume for safetys sake that the front struts are > carrying 2/3 of the load and the rear struts only 1/3. If that is the > case, > then the load at each front strut fitting on the wing at 4 gs with a > 1200 lb gross weight would be 2/3 (2400) or 1600 lbs. This is assuming > that > each wing panel is generating half the lift or 2400 lbs, and the > centersection > is adding nothing, so again this is a conservative assumption. If the > lift > load at the front strut is 1600 lbs, the load in the strut itself will be > twice > that (if the angle is 30) or 3200 lbs. Quite a bit different than the > 1200 > lbs you were calculating. > > > Jack Phillips > > NX899JP Icarus Plummet > > Raleigh, NC > > > From: > owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] > On Behalf Of Michael Perez > > Sent: Monday, January 10, 2011 > 11:43 AM > > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Please > Check My Math (alum.wing strut) > > > I am trying to figure out bolt hole edge spacing for > my aluminum wing struts. These struts are the small struts from Carlson > Aircraft. Doing the math, from the info. at the site, I get a wall > thickness of the strut at .119". Since the bolt would have to pull > through both walls, that number is now .238". > > > I am going to assume that my plane's weight will be 1000# and my weight > will > be 200#. (I am 165# actually) for total weight of 1200#. > > > The plans show using a 5/16" bolt. (.3125") 2X bolt diameter > minus 1/2 of a bolt diameter yields a hole edge spacing of .625 - > .15625 = .46875" > > > .46875 X .238 (strut wall thickness) = .1115625 square inches. > > > .1115625 X 11637 (SHEAR listed on the website for the small strut) = 1298 > lbs. > > > My 1200# plane at 4Gs is 4800#. Each lift strut will see about 1200 lbs > each. > (?) > > > My aluminum struts with the 2 diameter bolt edge spacing should be able > to > handle 1298 lbs each...which is good for a 1200# plane at 4Gs. > > > If I use an edge spacing of 1/2" even, then the new number is 1384# per > strut. > > > Thanks for any help advice. > > > Michael Perez > > Karetaker Aero > > www.karetakeraero.com > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 10, 2011
Subject: Re: Tail wheel
From: Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
I used a Matco, much lighter and cheaper than a Scott: http://www.matcomfg.com/TailWheelAssemblies-tp2-13.html On Mon, Jan 10, 2011 at 11:49 AM, Earnest Bunbury wrote: > We've used both a Maule and a Scott, both 6-in., full-swivel, steerable, > with detent. The Scott came with the plane and was a bit squirrelly. The > Maule was a gift from one of the guys at the field. It works "better" but > both of them are heavy and way over-engineered for the purpose. If you're > going with a new set-up, I would buy the lightest that can handle the load > or build from scratch. There are some cool solutions out there, some of > which are shown at westcoastpiet, as Kevin mentioned. > > What sort of class are the kids in? Is this a shop class or an > aviation-oriented class? > > Good luck and keep us updated! > > > * > > * > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net>
Subject: Re: Tail wheel
Date: Jan 10, 2011
Rick, what model Matco tailwheel did you use? I am thinking about a Matco WHLT-6. The specs say it has an operating load of 450#. ----- Original Message ----- From: Rick Holland To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, January 10, 2011 4:09 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Tail wheel I used a Matco, much lighter and cheaper than a Scott: http://www.matcomfg.com/TailWheelAssemblies-tp2-13.html On Mon, Jan 10, 2011 at 11:49 AM, Earnest Bunbury wrote: We've used both a Maule and a Scott, both 6-in., full-swivel, steerable, with detent. The Scott came with the plane and was a bit squirrelly. The Maule was a gift from one of the guys at the field. It works "better" but both of them are heavy and way over-engineered for the purpose. If you're going with a new set-up, I would buy the lightest that can handle the load or build from scratch. There are some cool solutions out there, some of which are shown at westcoastpiet, as Kevin mentioned. What sort of class are the kids in? Is this a shop class or an aviation-oriented class? Good luck and keep us updated! " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List tp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 10, 2011
From: "TOM STINEMETZE" <TOMS(at)mcpcity.com>
Subject: LG at last
Well it's kind of bittersweet since I already know that this set of landing gear will have to be rebuilt before the plane gets to move much. BUT it's still a grand feeling to have N328X up on its gear at last. There is just something about being able to swing a leg up and sit with your back firmly settled into the seat and everything pointing UP! Now I can start installing a lot of those things that have been occupying shelf space and looking for a home. My wife had to call me in to supper several times before I could bring myself to vacate that seat. A'course some of the was due to the fact that I couldn't figure out what to grab to get me standing back up again. Ken Perkins hubs and spring shocks; spokes from Buchanans; 19" aluminum rims from a local cycle shop; weldable axles from AS&S; brake calipers from surplus Honda Shadow; brake disks my design from a local machine shop; brake brackets from my son in CA. Truely a "melting pot" project. Oh, and my own ugly welding on everything. Tom Stinemetze N328X ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 10, 2011
From: Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Please Check My Math (alum.wing strut)
ALWAYS use what the plans call out.... :-) I probably used 3/16.... jm -----Original Message----- >From: Charles Campbell <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> >Sent: Jan 10, 2011 2:37 PM >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Please Check My Math (alum.wing strut) > > >My plans call for 3/16" diagonal/xbracing wires. > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> >To: >Sent: Monday, January 10, 2011 3:01 PM >Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Please Check My Math (alum.wing strut) > > >> >> >> So Jack (or anyone for that matter), >> >> How much (if any) of that load would you expect to be carried by those >> 1/8" diagonal/Xbracing wires between the lift struts? >> >> Any of it? >> >> JM >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> From: Jack Phillips >> >> Sent: Jan 10, 2011 12:09 PM >> >> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >> >> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Please Check My Math (alum.wing strut) >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Michael, how are you arriving at 1200 lbs >> per strut at 4 Gs? >> >> >> >> I could see that if your struts were >> vertical (in line with the lift load). They are not, and since they are >> at an >> angle from the horizontal, each strut will see a load equal to the lift >> load at >> that point divided by the sine of the angle. For most Pietenpols, the >> angle is >> about 30 and the sine of 30 is .50, so if all four struts are carrying a >> quarter of the total load (theyre not the front struts tend to >> carry more than the rears, due to the position of the center of pressure, >> and >> the pressure distribution curve), and the total load is 4800 lbs, each >> strut is >> carrying 1200/.5 or 2400 lbs. >> >> >> >> Without knowing the pressure distribution >> on the wing, I would assume for safetys sake that the front struts are >> carrying 2/3 of the load and the rear struts only 1/3. If that is the >> case, >> then the load at each front strut fitting on the wing at 4 gs with a >> 1200 lb gross weight would be 2/3 (2400) or 1600 lbs. This is assuming >> that >> each wing panel is generating half the lift or 2400 lbs, and the >> centersection >> is adding nothing, so again this is a conservative assumption. If the >> lift >> load at the front strut is 1600 lbs, the load in the strut itself will be >> twice >> that (if the angle is 30) or 3200 lbs. Quite a bit different than the >> 1200 >> lbs you were calculating. >> >> >> >> Jack Phillips >> >> NX899JP Icarus Plummet >> >> Raleigh, NC >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> From: >> owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] >> On Behalf Of Michael Perez >> >> Sent: Monday, January 10, 2011 >> 11:43 AM >> >> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >> >> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Please >> Check My Math (alum.wing strut) >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> I am trying to figure out bolt hole edge spacing for >> my aluminum wing struts. These struts are the small struts from Carlson >> Aircraft. Doing the math, from the info. at the site, I get a wall >> thickness of the strut at .119". Since the bolt would have to pull >> through both walls, that number is now .238". >> >> >> >> I am going to assume that my plane's weight will be 1000# and my weight >> will >> be 200#. (I am 165# actually) for total weight of 1200#. >> >> >> >> The plans show using a 5/16" bolt. (.3125") 2X bolt diameter >> minus 1/2 of a bolt diameter yields a hole edge spacing of .625 - >> .15625 = .46875" >> >> >> >> .46875 X .238 (strut wall thickness) = .1115625 square inches. >> >> >> >> .1115625 X 11637 (SHEAR listed on the website for the small strut) = 1298 >> lbs. >> >> >> >> My 1200# plane at 4Gs is 4800#. Each lift strut will see about 1200 lbs >> each. >> (?) >> >> >> >> My aluminum struts with the 2 diameter bolt edge spacing should be able >> to >> handle 1298 lbs each...which is good for a 1200# plane at 4Gs. >> >> >> >> If I use an edge spacing of 1/2" even, then the new number is 1384# per >> strut. >> >> >> >> Thanks for any help advice. >> >> >> >> Michael Perez >> >> Karetaker Aero >> >> www.karetakeraero.com >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Please Check My Math (alum.wing strut)
From: "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca>
Date: Jan 10, 2011
I don't have my plans at hand, but I don't recall ANY 3/16" cable being called for anywhere in the plans. Bill C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=326373#326373 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 10, 2011
Subject: Re: Tail wheel
From: Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
That's the same one I have Charles. Used with a used J3 two piece leaf spring I got off ebay. rick On Mon, Jan 10, 2011 at 3:31 PM, Charles Campbell wrote: > Rick, what model Matco tailwheel did you use? I am thinking about a > Matco WHLT-6. The specs say it has an operating load of 450#. > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Rick Holland > *To:* pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > *Sent:* Monday, January 10, 2011 4:09 PM > *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Tail wheel > > I used a Matco, much lighter and cheaper than a Scott: > > http://www.matcomfg.com/TailWheelAssemblies-tp2-13.html > > On Mon, Jan 10, 2011 at 11:49 AM, Earnest Bunbury wrote: > >> We've used both a Maule and a Scott, both 6-in., full-swivel, steerable, >> with detent. The Scott came with the plane and was a bit squirrelly. The >> Maule was a gift from one of the guys at the field. It works "better" but >> both of them are heavy and way over-engineered for the purpose. If you're >> going with a new set-up, I would buy the lightest that can handle the load >> or build from scratch. There are some cool solutions out there, some of >> which are shown at westcoastpiet, as Kevin mentioned. >> >> What sort of class are the kids in? Is this a shop class or an >> aviation-oriented class? >> >> Good luck and keep us updated! >> >> >> * >> >> " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List >> tp://forums.matronics.com >> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> * >> >> > > > -- > Rick Holland > Castle Rock, Colorado > > "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" > > * > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c* > > * > > * > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 10, 2011
Subject: Re: Please Check My Math (alum.wing strut)
From: Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
You must mean 3/32" On Mon, Jan 10, 2011 at 4:27 PM, Bill Church wrote: > billspiet(at)sympatico.ca> > > I don't have my plans at hand, but I don't recall ANY 3/16" cable being > called for anywhere in the plans. > > Bill C. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=326373#326373 > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 10, 2011
Subject: Re: LG at last
From: Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Looks great Tom, that is a whole bunch of work completed. I like that Don Emich style "Hybrid" split gear with wire wheels system. rick On Mon, Jan 10, 2011 at 3:09 PM, TOM STINEMETZE wrote: > *Well it's kind of bittersweet since I already know that this set of > landing gear will have to be rebuilt before the plane gets to move much. > BUT it's still a grand feeling to have N328X up on its gear at last. There > is just something about being able to swing a leg up and sit with your back > firmly settled into the seat and everything pointing UP! Now I can start > installing a lot of those things that have been occupying shelf space and > looking for a home.* > ** > *My wife had to call me in to supper several times before I could bring > myself to vacate that seat. A'course some of the was due to the fact that I > couldn't figure out what to grab to get me standing back up again.* > ** > *Ken Perkins hubs and spring shocks; spokes from Buchanans; 19" aluminum > rims from a local cycle shop; weldable axles from AS&S; brake calipers from > surplus Honda Shadow; brake disks my design from a local machine shop; brake > brackets from my son in CA. Truely a "melting pot" project. Oh, and my own > ugly welding on everything.* > ** > *Tom Stinemetze* > *N328X* > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: LG at last
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 10, 2011
Very nice Tom!!!! You should be proud and a great feeling of accomplishment ! Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. -----Original Message----- From: TOM STINEMETZE <TOMS(at)mcpcity.com> Sent: Mon, Jan 10, 2011 4:36 pm Subject: Pietenpol-List: LG at last Well it's kind of bittersweet since I already know that this set of landing gear will have to be rebuilt before the plane gets to move much. BUT it's still a grand feeling to have N328X up on its gear at last. There is just something about being able to swing a leg up and sit with your back firmly settled into the seat and everything pointing UP! Now I can start install ing a lot of those things that have been occupying shelf space and looking for a home. My wife had to call me in to supper several times before I could bring myse lf to vacate that seat. A'course some of the was due to the fact that I co uldn't figure out what to grab to get me standing back up again. Ken Perkins hubs and spring shocks; spokes from Buchanans; 19" aluminum rim s from a local cycle shop; weldable axles from AS&S; brake calipers from su rplus Honda Shadow; brake disks my design from a local machine shop; brake brackets from my son in CA. Truely a "melting pot" project. Oh, and my ow n ugly welding on everything. Tom Stinemetze N328X ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Please Check My Math (alum.wing strut)
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 10, 2011
I also used 3/16 cable for the cabanes, like the plans call for. Also it sh ould be used on the controls, aft of the belcrank. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. -----Original Message----- From: Bill Church <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca> Sent: Mon, Jan 10, 2011 5:30 pm Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Please Check My Math (alum.wing strut) > I don't have my plans at hand, but I don't recall ANY 3/16" cable being cal led or anywhere in the plans. Bill C. ead this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=326373#326373 -= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List - -======================== -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -======================== -= - List Contribution Web Site - -= Thank you for your generous support! -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution -======================== ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Wing Strut Fork End
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 10, 2011
Hi Michael, I used 7075 inserts and the J-3 forks. Two 1/4" bolts in each end of the st rut. That's all you need. I would not use turnbuckle forks. They look too f limsy to me. Save up and by the good ones. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. -----Original Message----- From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> Sent: Mon, Jan 10, 2011 1:39 pm Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing Strut Fork End I see those using aluminum wing struts use an insert that is threaded for a fork end. Those that used aluminum for the threaded insert...what type alu minum did you use? (6061, 7050, 7075, etc.) Looking at fork ends...I am curious if a turnbuckle fork end would suffice for the wing strut fork? The -46 turnbuckle assemblies are rated at 4600#.. .I would guess that the components that make up that assembly are rated the same. (barrel, fork end, cable eye, pin eye, etc.) There are larger forks as well, -61 and -80. The -46 forks have a .250" opening with a 5/16" hole. All of these are substantially less money then the Piper forks shown in the AS&S catalog. Michael Perez Karetaker Aero www.karetakeraero.com -= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List - -======================== -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -======================== -= - List Contribution Web Site - -= Thank you for your generous support! -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution -======================== ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Please Check My Math (alum.wing strut)
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 10, 2011
Woops! I meant 3/32" -----Original Message----- From: helspersew <helspersew(at)aol.com> Sent: Mon, Jan 10, 2011 6:21 pm Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Please Check My Math (alum.wing strut) I also used 3/16 cable for the cabanes, like the plans call for. Also it sh ould be used on the controls, aft of the belcrank. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. -----Original Message----- From: Bill Church <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca> Sent: Mon, Jan 10, 2011 5:30 pm Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Please Check My Math (alum.wing strut) > I don't have my plans at hand, but I don't recall ANY 3/16" cable being cal led or anywhere in the plans. Bill C. ead this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=326373#326373 -= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List - -======================== -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -======================== -= - List Contribution Web Site - -= Thank you for your generous support! -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution -======================== ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Wing Strut Fork End
From: "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca>
Date: Jan 10, 2011
Michael, Regarding the use of a turnbuckle fork end as a substitute for a wing strut fork, the short answer is ... NO. Never mind the hole size and throat opening on the fork - take a look at the diameter of the threaded portion. The -46 fork end has a 5/16" diameter threaded portion, whereas the Piper forks are 7/16" diameter. Assuming that both are made of the same grade of steel, the 7/16" diameter will be capable of carrying twice the load that the 5/16" diameter can. This isn't an item to scrimp on. Play it safe and use the real thing. Bill C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=326393#326393 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 10, 2011
From: shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Corvair Challenges and 5th Bearing
Damnit Randy! Now you are the 2nd Known piet corvair crank snappin inciden t! I am going to call the head of General Moters Obama himself and demand a tax payer funded refund on all the money Dad and I have spent on this cor vair aircraft conversion. I will make sure they issue a TFR of 30 NM from


January 01, 2011 - January 10, 2011

Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-jy