Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-kb
January 24, 2011 - February 02, 2011
the end of this month. A week long get-away in a little place called Brasstown.
--------
John
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328300#328300
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | airlion <airlion(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Ah, opinions... |
Hey guys , Definition of an expert. Ex is the unknown factor and spert is a drip
under pressure.
--- On Mon, 1/24/11, Jack Phillips wrote:
> From: Jack Phillips <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Ah, opinions...
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Monday, January 24, 2011, 5:44 PM
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted
> by: "Jack Phillips"
>
> I don't hate Corvair engines. They have their place
> in aviation.
>
> You see, amphibs and floatplanes occasionally need to be
> secured off shore
> and the best way to do that is to sink a heavy and useless
> object with a
> rope tied to it, that can then be used to secure the
> airplane. Corvair
> engines are perfect for this task!
>
> Just kidding, of course.
>
> Now about this "friend" who told you that T-88 will break
> down at 110
> degrees, BE WARY. Every airport has at least one
> "expert" who has never
> built an airplane but knows everything about building one,
> and is sure to
> point out that what you are doing is wrong. The best
> way to handle them is
> to keep your head down and keep working, and if they
> persist, you can say
> either "that turns out not to be the case" or "Bullsh*t",
> depending on a
> number of factors:
>
> a) Your mood at the time
> b) Whether you care to maintain this idiot as a
> friend
> c) Young ladies or children are present
>
> Wait till you start covering it with fabric. The
> smell of dope or PolyBrush
> seems to draw these folks like a pig pickin' draws
> flies. And they're all
> Experts, although they have never covered an
> airplane. Their "...uncle
> covered one with Irish Linen, back in '48, and he said you
> had to...".
>
> Don't listen to them. Don't pay attention to half of
> what you read on this
> forum. Read Tony Bingelis, and CAM18 (AC 43.13) and
> the manufacturer's info
> and directions, and make up your own mind. Talk to
> your local EAA Technical
> Counselor, but vette him first to make sure he actually
> knows something
> about wood and fabric airplanes. The EAA is not too
> particular about the
> experience required to become a TC, although they DO
> require that you must
> have built at least one airplane. A good TC will
> disqualify himself from
> questions where he knows nothing. For example, I'm
> the TC for our local EAA
> Chapter, and I was recently asked a question regarding
> carbon fiber layups
> on a Lancair. I disqualified myself because I simply
> have no experience or
> knowledge about composite materials and work. I will
> be gaining some of
> that when I get to the cabin top and doors on the RV-10 I'm
> building, but
> until I have worked with it myself, I won't offer an
> opinion.
>
> And before you ask, yes, I have had a Corvair. A 1966
> model, with a 110 hp
> engine and a 4 on the floor. First car I ever
> wrecked. My Machine Design
> class in college used the Corvair as the example of how NOT
> to design a belt
> drive system. The design of that system was
> consistent with the design of
> the rest of the car. Remember, this car was designed
> to be Cheap. It was
> targeted squarely at the first real threat Detroit felt
> from foreign cars -
> a car that also had an air cooled engine mounted in the
> rear of the car, and
> sold for a very low price.
>
> Jack Phillips
> NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
> Raleigh, NC
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]
> On Behalf Of Kringle
> Sent: Monday, January 24, 2011 1:27 PM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Ah, opinions...
>
>
> I still consider myself a newbie here but have learned to
> respect the
> opinions of the same people you have listed. Two of
> those individuals share
> private emails with me and answer the questions I have but
> don't want to
> post on the list. Jack Phillips would be another one
> I would put my trust
> in but he hates corvair engines.
>
> This weekend a friend of mine told me to avoid using T-88
> epoxy as it will
> break down at 110 degrees F. So on the tarmac at
> Phoenix in the summer your
> plane could fall apart. I emailed threesystems about
> heat limits of T-88
> and this is their reply.
>
> An upper limit would be around 160-180F. The T-88
> itself will not fail.
> Failure comes from a combination of stresses from the wood
> shrinking
> combined with the fact that the Glass Transition
> Temperature for T-88 is
> around 150F.
>
> System Three Resins, Inc.
> Technical Support
> 253-333-8118
> www.systemthree.com
>
> --------
> John
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328237#328237
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Email Forum -
> FAQ,
> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
> List Contribution Web Site -
> -Matt
> Dralle, List Admin.
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott Knowlton " <flyingscott_k(at)hotmail.com> |
Can anyone give me a little guidance with the compression struts on the center
section. I have dry assembled the pieces and fabricated the metal parts but from
the three piece wing supplement I'm having trouble understanding how the lower
bolt in the aileron pully fitting gets a nut on the back of it since where
the bolt goes through the spar the 3/8 by 1-3/4" compression strut is on the
back side. Also the steel wing attach fitting looks as though it interferes
with the compression strut at the top as well. Does anyone have a nice clear
photo of theirs?
Usually once I look at the plans enough times things make sense... This one has
me a little stymied.
Scott Knowlton
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
Scott, it's been a long time since I did that, and I have no idea where my
plans are now, but I recall being stumped by the same problem. Here is a
picture of my centersection construction that might give you a clue as to
what I did. I know I modified the design of the fittings to clear that
bolt. My centersection is also 6" wider than plans to allow more room for
fuel.
Hope this helps,
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Raleigh NC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott
Knowlton
Sent: Monday, January 24, 2011 6:51 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Center section
Can anyone give me a little guidance with the compression struts on the
center section. I have dry assembled the pieces and fabricated the metal
parts but from the three piece wing supplement I'm having trouble
understanding how the lower bolt in the aileron pully fitting gets a nut on
the back of it since where the bolt goes through the spar the 3/8 by 1-3/4"
compression strut is on the back side. Also the steel wing attach fitting
looks as though it interferes with the compression strut at the top as well.
Does anyone have a nice clear photo of theirs?
Usually once I look at the plans enough times things make sense... This one
has me a little stymied.
Scott Knowlton
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Center section |
See what you mean. How about moving the butt rib 3/8 in. closer to the butt
joint and put the compression strut where the rib is currently located?
Anyone see anything that would cause the airplane to explode if this were
done?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Knowlton " <flyingscott_k(at)hotmail.com>
Sent: Monday, January 24, 2011 6:51 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Center section
>
>
> Can anyone give me a little guidance with the compression struts on the
> center section. I have dry assembled the pieces and fabricated the metal
> parts but from the three piece wing supplement I'm having trouble
> understanding how the lower bolt in the aileron pully fitting gets a nut
> on the back of it since where the bolt goes through the spar the 3/8 by
> 1-3/4" compression strut is on the back side. Also the steel wing attach
> fitting looks as though it interferes with the compression strut at the
> top as well. Does anyone have a nice clear photo of theirs?
> Usually once I look at the plans enough times things make sense... This
> one has me a little stymied.
> Scott Knowlton
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Knowlton <flyingscott_k(at)hotmail.com> |
Thanks Jack. It truly amazes me how much more will jump out of a picture w
hen you are in the process of building the same thing. I'm
noticing you made both a lower and upper compression strut. I have begun t
hinking that I may do the same. I wish I could see the back side of your a
ft spar where you put the pully. There is one nut or nutsert out there to
the right of the wing attach fittings all on its own. I'm thinking that ma
y be one of your gas tank attach points which leaves me to believe you may
have bolted the pulley on the same orientation as the wing attach strap. T
hat would eliminate the one nut under the strut. In looking at Bernie's br
acket to enclose the pulley I'm also wondering how the bolt head (which is
on the back side of the bracket) can be there and not interfere when the br
acket is attached to the spar. You'd think the bracket would need to be st
ood off the spar to allow clearance for the bolt which goes through the pul
ley.
Scott
From: pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Center section
Date: Mon=2C 24 Jan 2011 20:27:48 -0500
Scott=2C it's been a long time since I did that=2C and I have no idea where
my plans are now=2C but I recall being stumped by the same problem. Here
is a picture of my centersection construction that might give you a clue as
to what I did. I know I modified the design of the fittings to clear that
bolt. My centersection is also 6" wider than plans to allow more room for
fuel.
Hope this helps=2C
Jack Phillips
NX899JP =93Icarus Plummet=94
Raleigh NC
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Center section |
| From: | "Dangerous Dave" <dsornbor(at)aol.com> |
Scott,dont know if this pic will help.The bolt in the pulley doesn't go all the
way through.I put the head on the inside and the nut on the outside and where
the strut goes it was built up flush with the bracket with plywood,Dave
--------
Covering Piet
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328345#328345
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/piet_9_14_10_003_198.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "VanDy" <matthew.vandervort(at)gmail.com> |
good evening all,
I got a panoramic picture from gpa, that was taken in 1989, at the 60th anniversary
Pietenpol "Expo" that had some nitrate dope or something spilled on it
that 3 different photo restorers could help with :( and mine was damaged pretty
good in the unrolling process.
If anybody has a copy of that pic i would love to get a copy, or if not, i will
start scanning mine and upload it, should anybody be interested.
matthew
--------
www.vansaviation.com follow my Piet rebuild there!
almost dissasembled, getting ready to order all AN hardware and SS cable
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328346#328346
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
Ask and ye shall receive:
Does that help?
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Raleigh, NC
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott
Knowlton
Sent: Monday, January 24, 2011 9:39 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Center section
Thanks Jack. It truly amazes me how much more will jump out of a picture
when you are in the process of building the same thing. I'm
noticing you made both a lower and upper compression strut. I have begun
thinking that I may do the same. I wish I could see the back side of your
aft spar where you put the pully. There is one nut or nutsert out there to
the right of the wing attach fittings all on its own. I'm thinking that may
be one of your gas tank attach points which leaves me to believe you may
have bolted the pulley on the same orientation as the wing attach strap.
That would eliminate the one nut under the strut. In looking at Bernie's
bracket to enclose the pulley I'm also wondering how the bolt head (which is
on the back side of the bracket) can be there and not interfere when the
bracket is attached to the spar. You'd think the bracket would need to be
stood off the spar to allow clearance for the bolt which goes through the
pulley.
Scott
_____
From: pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Center section
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2011 20:27:48 -0500
Scott, it's been a long time since I did that, and I have no idea where my
plans are now, but I recall being stumped by the same problem. Here is a
picture of my centersection construction that might give you a clue as to
what I did. I know I modified the design of the fittings to clear that
bolt. My centersection is also 6" wider than plans to allow more room for
fuel.
Hope this helps,
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Raleigh NC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott
Knowlton
Sent: Monday, January 24, 2011 6:51 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Center section
Can anyone give me a little guidance with the compression struts on the
center section. I have dry assembled the pieces and fabricated the metal
parts but from the three piece wing supplement I'm having trouble
understanding how the lower bolt in the aileron pully fitting gets a nut on
the back of it since where the bolt goes through the spar the 3/8 by 1-3/4"
compression strut is on the back side. Also the steel wing attach fitting
looks as though it interferes with the compression strut at the top as well.
Does anyone have a nice clear photo of theirs?
Usually once I look at the plans enough times things make sense... This one
has me a little stymied.
Scott Knowlton
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | 1932 vs. 1933 empennage? |
| From: | "tdudley(at)umn.edu" <tdudley(at)umn.edu> |
I decided to build a Piet after buying a reprint of the 1932 Flying and Glider
Manual at Oshkosh last year. Nothing cooler in my mind than being able to build
an airplane using the info provided in Pietenpol's/Westy Farmer's series.
I did order a rib plan from Don Pietenpol and started building my ribs, planning
on building the rest from only the FGM.
Then you start thinking--extended fuselage, Ford A vs. Corvair vs. Lycoming (or
other) engine, one-piece vs. three-piece wing; a few more variables and "supplemental
plans" needed than just found in the FGM.
I ordered the complete set of plans from Don Pietenpol and am waiting for them.
Before I did, however, I rabbetted/routed and cut all the wood for the empennage
based on the FGM print. That means the horizontal stabilizer has a leading
edge of 90" and is square to it's trailing edge and is braced with only 1/2
X 3/16" spruce strips. The "improved" 1933 plans (which are in the mail) will
show the LE of the horizontal stabilizer at 83" extending to a 90" TE. Bracing
is with 1/2 X 3/16" spruce strips and a 3/4 X 1/2" diagonal spruce beam.
Similarly, the FGM elevator has a LE of 40 1/2" and tapers to 30"; the 1933 plans
show the elevator LE at 42 1/2" tapering to 30".
My question is this-- is it okay to build the FGM empennage as I'd planned and
attach it to an extended fuselage and three-piece wing? Or do I need to build
a 1933-plans tail section (which means re-ordering, re-routing, re-cutting wood)?
Does the 1933 re-design of the tail have BIG advantages over the FGM tail
or would it be okay to build the FGM tail? Most pictures I see are of the 1933
"improvement". Not many FGM tail pictures out there (but a great example
of one at Oshkosh last year).
I'd be interested in hearing any thoughts. I'd like to stick with the FGM tail
(since it just needs glue at this time). I'd have included pictures, but wasn't
too certain about copyright issues. If anyone thinks it isn't an infringement,
I'll post them.
Tom
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328354#328354
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Clif Dawson" <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Trim set ups |
And then there's the Fokkers............
rear view mirror. The pilot used it to check for traffic conflicts,
as well as any possible bird strkes that might be approaching from that
direction.
Cheers, Ken
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Trim set ups |
| From: | "Ozarkflyer" <lragan(at)hotmail.com> |
Hopefully this link works
http://krbuilder.org/Trim/index.html
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328357#328357
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 1932 vs. 1933 empennage? |
| From: | "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca> |
Well, Tom,
All I can say is it's a good thing you decided to order a set of plans from Don.
I have referred to the old FGM reprint from time to time, and the question that
keeps popping into my head is "How has anyone actually managed to build a
complete working aircraft from just those plans?". First off, they're so small
that they are hard to see some of the details, but more importantly, there are
some details that aren't even there (like elevator and rudder horns, and wing
spar spacing for instance). I haven't studied the differences between the FGM
and Improved empennages, but successful aircraft have been built from both.
I think the Improved version is an improvement (go figure). The original version
has an unusual construction, which likely has less resistance to racking, since
there aren't really any diagonal spars - just capstrips.
Having said all that, I do enjoy reading through the old FGM reprints. They are
quite entertaining - especially the colorful language. But I do wonder why they
decided to insert more modern photos.
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328359#328359
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Ah, opinions... |
| From: | "Mild Bill" <whfrank(at)charter.net> |
kevinpurtee wrote:
> The guy who commented on some metal work that was in process, "Not much of a
metal worker, are you?" came REAL close to getting smacked
After meeting Stanley Hooker in the 1930s, Rolls-Royce chairman Ernest Hives quipped,
"Not much of an engineer."
Hooker went on to double the horsepower of the Rolls-Royce Merlin and was instrumental
in Britain's early lead in jet engine development. When he wrote his autobiography,
he used Hives's remark for the title.
--------
Bill Frank
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328365#328365
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris" <catdesigns(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Aileron Horn and Piano Hinge |
I have installed full length piano hinge for the ailerons. Now when I go to
install the aileron horn the top bolt would exit through the hinge flange.
For those who have installed piano hinges, how did you deal with the upper
bolt and the hinge interference.
Here are my options as I see it:
1: Recess the bolt head into the aileron spar so the hinge could sit flat
but I don't know if that is ok.
2: Moving the top hole down about a half inch but that would reduce the
spacing between the two holes and I'm guessing make the aileron horn more
susceptible the twisting.
3: Notch the aileron hinge flange to clear the bolt head.
To me #3 sounds like the best idea but I just don't know.
Chris
Sacramento, Ca
Westcoastpiet.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Clif Dawson" <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Center section |
BetterNot! Or I'm in trouble!
Last pic is pretty bad but hopefully you can see what
I did with the cabane and wing panel attachments.
This center is 36" wide.
Clif
>
> Anyone see anything that would cause the airplane to explode if this were
> done?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack" <jack(at)textors.com> |
| Subject: | Aileron Horn and Piano Hinge |
Chris it was 3 for me. Also had to re-make aileron pulley brackets as you
can see here. Rear horn brace was not installed yet either.
Jack
DSM
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris
Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2011 12:51 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Aileron Horn and Piano Hinge
I have installed full length piano hinge for the ailerons. Now when I go to
install the aileron horn the top bolt would exit through the hinge flange.
For those who have installed piano hinges, how did you deal with the upper
bolt and the hinge interference.
Here are my options as I see it:
1: Recess the bolt head into the aileron spar so the hinge could sit flat
but I don't know if that is ok.
2: Moving the top hole down about a half inch but that would reduce the
spacing between the two holes and I'm guessing make the aileron horn more
susceptible the twisting.
3: Notch the aileron hinge flange to clear the bolt head.
To me #3 sounds like the best idea but I just don't know.
Chris
Sacramento, Ca
Westcoastpiet.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Trim set ups |
What kind of car did the mirror motor come out of? I'm definitely
interested. Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ozarkflyer" <lragan(at)hotmail.com>
Sent: Monday, January 24, 2011 11:34 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Trim set ups
>
> Hopefully this link works
>
> http://krbuilder.org/Trim/index.html
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328357#328357
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 1932 vs. 1933 empennage? |
| From: | "Dangerous Dave" <dsornbor(at)aol.com> |
Tom,I don't know the difference in flight characteristics but I built a combination
of the two empenages,a squared off 33.I don't see why you couldn't just cut
the mid spar and braces then assemble it with the stuff you already cut.You'd
just have an improved 32.Dave
--------
Covering Piet
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328379#328379
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/piet_8_28_10_005_141.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Aileron Horn and Piano Hinge |
I think I did the same as Jack did.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Raleigh, NC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack
Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2011 5:25 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Aileron Horn and Piano Hinge
Chris it was 3 for me. Also had to re-make aileron pulley brackets as you
can see here. Rear horn brace was not installed yet either.
Jack
DSM
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris
Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2011 12:51 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Aileron Horn and Piano Hinge
I have installed full length piano hinge for the ailerons. Now when I go to
install the aileron horn the top bolt would exit through the hinge flange.
For those who have installed piano hinges, how did you deal with the upper
bolt and the hinge interference.
Here are my options as I see it:
1: Recess the bolt head into the aileron spar so the hinge could sit flat
but I don't know if that is ok.
2: Moving the top hole down about a half inch but that would reduce the
spacing between the two holes and I'm guessing make the aileron horn more
susceptible the twisting.
3: Notch the aileron hinge flange to clear the bolt head.
To me #3 sounds like the best idea but I just don't know.
Chris
Sacramento, Ca
Westcoastpiet.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack" <jack(at)textors.com> |
| Subject: | Aileron Horn Attach |
Just checked, I drilled, countersunk the hinge and used a flathead bolt.
Jack
DSM
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 1932 vs. 1933 empennage? |
| From: | "GliderMike" <glidermikeg(at)yahoo.com> |
I would think you would definitely want to add the bracing, for some extra strength.
The longer fuselage would not need as much horizontal control surface as
the shorter one, because of the leverage moment being larger, so it might be
a little more sensitive on control input from the elevator, than it would be
with the short fuselage. I read someone's comment that the elevator was a tad
sensitive on someone's airplane, but I don't know which elevator they used. The
"New Improved" elevator sounds like it is larger than what you have set up,
so I would think you would be good with what you have. I would definitely add
the diagonal braces, though, as I mentioned at first. My 2 cents worth.
Since horizontals are being discussed, are the horizontal portions of the empennage
mounted so they can be removed when the airplane is moved from the house
to the airport for final assembly? I don't have plans (again) yet, and at the
rate things are going, it will be a long time before I have to be concerned about
this, but I was wondering.
--------
HOMEBUILDER
Will WORK for Spruce
Long flights, smooth air, and soft landings,
GliderMike, aka Mike Glasgow
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328394#328394
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> |
Rick Holland, please E-mail me at my home E-mail address. I have
something to discuss and don't want to start a bru-ha-ha on the list.
cncampbell(at)windstream.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gboothe5" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 1932 vs. 1933 empennage? |
Yes, Glider, empennage easily removes for transport.
Gary
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of GliderMike
Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2011 5:53 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: 1932 vs. 1933 empennage?
I would think you would definitely want to add the bracing, for some extra
strength. The longer fuselage would not need as much horizontal control
surface as the shorter one, because of the leverage moment being larger, so
it might be a little more sensitive on control input from the elevator, than
it would be with the short fuselage. I read someone's comment that the
elevator was a tad sensitive on someone's airplane, but I don't know which
elevator they used. The "New Improved" elevator sounds like it is larger
than what you have set up, so I would think you would be good with what you
have. I would definitely add the diagonal braces, though, as I mentioned at
first. My 2 cents worth.
Since horizontals are being discussed, are the horizontal portions of the
empennage mounted so they can be removed when the airplane is moved from the
house to the airport for final assembly? I don't have plans (again) yet, and
at the rate things are going, it will be a long time before I have to be
concerned about this, but I was wondering.
--------
HOMEBUILDER
Will WORK for Spruce
Long flights, smooth air, and soft landings,
GliderMike, aka Mike Glasgow
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328394#328394
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC AEROSPACE CORP]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Mike Cuy DVD back in production |
For some of you who were asking about my 2.5 hour 'The Building and Flying
of NX48MC' DVD I am now back in production
(after my old DVD recorder decided to freeze up, not finalize and a myriad
of other problems which I won't bore you with)
and the DVD can be obtained for $25 which included Priority Mail shipping t
o PO Box 736, Berea, OH 44017. Checks, cash, money
orders firstborns, no paypal, any international orders must be checks in U
S funds and the check must have a bank name affiliated with the USA printed
on it.
Thank you,
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Aileron Horn and Piano Hinge |
| From: | Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
I did a 2 piece hinge with a gap in the middle for the horn.
On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 11:51 PM, Chris wrote:
>
>
> I have installed full length piano hinge for the ailerons. Now when I go
> to
> install the aileron horn the top bolt would exit through the hinge flange.
> For those who have installed piano hinges, how did you deal with the upper
> bolt and the hinge interference.
>
> Here are my options as I see it:
> 1: Recess the bolt head into the aileron spar so the hinge could sit flat
> but I don't know if that is ok.
>
> 2: Moving the top hole down about a half inch but that would reduce the
> spacing between the two holes and I'm guessing make the aileron horn more
> susceptible the twisting.
>
> 3: Notch the aileron hinge flange to clear the bolt head.
>
>
> To me #3 sounds like the best idea but I just don't know.
>
>
> Chris
> Sacramento, Ca
> Westcoastpiet.com
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Center section |
| From: | Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
I have a 3' center section and as somebody else mentioned I just moved the
comp strut a little toward the butt rib.
rick
On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 6:37 PM, Charles Campbell wrote:
> cncampbell(at)windstream.net>
>
> See what you mean. How about moving the butt rib 3/8 in. closer to the
> butt joint and put the compression strut where the rib is currently located?
> Anyone see anything that would cause the airplane to explode if this were
> done?
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Knowlton " <
> flyingscott_k(at)hotmail.com>
>
> To:
> Sent: Monday, January 24, 2011 6:51 PM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Center section
>
>
>> flyingscott_k(at)hotmail.com>
>>
>> Can anyone give me a little guidance with the compression struts on the
>> center section. I have dry assembled the pieces and fabricated the metal
>> parts but from the three piece wing supplement I'm having trouble
>> understanding how the lower bolt in the aileron pully fitting gets a nut on
>> the back of it since where the bolt goes through the spar the 3/8 by 1-3/4"
>> compression strut is on the back side. Also the steel wing attach fitting
>> looks as though it interferes with the compression strut at the top as well.
>> Does anyone have a nice clear photo of theirs?
>> Usually once I look at the plans enough times things make sense... This
>> one has me a little stymied.
>> Scott Knowlton
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Control stick connection |
| From: | "chase143(at)aol.com" <chase143(at)aol.com> |
Can I get feedback on how much (if any) "play" there should/can be in the control
sticks? My flight controls are in (minus the cables), but the control sticks
seem to have a little bit of play (side to side only), which appears to be
from the control stick bottom tabs which have the torque tube bolt through them
(holes/bolt correct size and all seems to be per the plans). Have others modified
the control stick tabs on the bottom or the torque tube in some way to alleviate
this?
Thanks,
Steve
--------
Steve
www.mypiet.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328412#328412
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "GliderMike" <glidermikeg(at)yahoo.com> |
I wouldn't want to land a parachute there either, and I've made 1200 landings under
a parachute.
--------
HOMEBUILDER
Will WORK for Spruce
Long flights, smooth air, and soft landings,
GliderMike, aka Mike Glasgow
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328423#328423
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Brodhead Lodging |
| From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
For those lowly people that are driving to Brodhead and will be looking for a place
to stay, there are some pretty good deals on lodging if you book in advance.
The Hilton line offers discounts if you book before Jan 31. Just figured
I'd put that out there... I booked our room in Rockford yesterday.
I know, I know... it is much more exiting to be under the trees and exposed to
direct artillery fire, but I'm not sure that the family would be too excited about
returning if they had been out in that stuff last year. We are Okies who
see severe weather all the time and we thought that stuff was pretty severe,
and we were indoors!
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328424#328424
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KM Heide CPO/FAAOP <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Center section |
Hey Cliff,
The last picture is a bit blurry or did you take the picture with your Franklin
engine running...(bing-sputter-bing-sputter!) tee-hee-hee
--- On Tue, 1/25/11, Clif Dawson wrote:
> From: Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Center section
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Tuesday, January 25, 2011, 1:53 AM
> BetterNot! Or I'm in trouble!
>
> Last pic is pretty bad but hopefully you can see what
> I did with the cabane and wing panel attachments.
> This center is 36" wide.
>
> Clif
>
>
> Campbell"
> > Anyone see anything that would cause the airplane to
> explode if this were done?
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gene Rambo <generambo(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Aileron Horn and Piano Hinge |
for what it is worth=2C I took option 1 and recessed the bolt. I used a st
ructural-type countersunk screw and large diameter dimpled washer. It fits
flush under the hinge just fine.
Gene
Date: Tue=2C 25 Jan 2011 08:11:03 -0700
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aileron Horn and Piano Hinge
From: at7000ft(at)gmail.com
I did a 2 piece hinge with a gap in the middle for the horn.
On Mon=2C Jan 24=2C 2011 at 11:51 PM=2C Chris wrote:
I have installed full length piano hinge for the ailerons. Now when I go t
o
install the aileron horn the top bolt would exit through the hinge flange.
For those who have installed piano hinges=2C how did you deal with the uppe
r
bolt and the hinge interference.
Here are my options as I see it:
1: Recess the bolt head into the aileron spar so the hinge could sit flat
but I don't know if that is ok.
2: Moving the top hole down about a half inch but that would reduce the
spacing between the two holes and I'm guessing make the aileron horn more
susceptible the twisting.
3: Notch the aileron hinge flange to clear the bolt head.
To me #3 sounds like the best idea but I just don't know.
Chris
Sacramento=2C Ca
Westcoastpiet.com
st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
http://forums.matronics.com
le=2C List Admin.
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock=2C Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers=2C that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Control stick connection |
I like to, and have, installed thin washers between the stick "legs" and torque
tube. These washers will take up any gap between the legs and the tube as well
as give the legs more flat surface area to ride against then just the ends of
the tube the bolt passes through. Of course, if the hole size/bolt size is wrong,
then... but you say this is not the case with your setup. There is a fine
line between tight enough to remove slop and too tight to bind up the movement.
Michael Perez
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 1932 vs. 1933 empennage? |
| From: | "bradandlinda tds.net" <bradandlinda(at)tds.net> |
Elevator Size. On the Piet that I bought (NX29NX) has a large elevator that
comes close to the ground. I personally feel it is too large a surface
area, and is overly sensitive in the ground effect (t.o. and landing).
Everyone who flys it for the first time gets a surprise on its sensitivity,
and has to remind himself to use very small and light elevator inputs. If
I were ever to build the elevator again, I would make it about 1/4 to 1/3
less area. Brad Williams
On Tue, Jan 25, 2011 at 8:11 AM, Gboothe5 wrote:
>
> Yes, Glider, empennage easily removes for transport.
>
> Gary
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of GliderMike
> Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2011 5:53 AM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: 1932 vs. 1933 empennage?
>
>
> I would think you would definitely want to add the bracing, for some extra
> strength. The longer fuselage would not need as much horizontal control
> surface as the shorter one, because of the leverage moment being larger, so
> it might be a little more sensitive on control input from the elevator,
> than
> it would be with the short fuselage. I read someone's comment that the
> elevator was a tad sensitive on someone's airplane, but I don't know which
> elevator they used. The "New Improved" elevator sounds like it is larger
> than what you have set up, so I would think you would be good with what you
> have. I would definitely add the diagonal braces, though, as I mentioned
> at
> first. My 2 cents worth.
>
> Since horizontals are being discussed, are the horizontal portions of the
> empennage mounted so they can be removed when the airplane is moved from
> the
> house to the airport for final assembly? I don't have plans (again) yet,
> and
> at the rate things are going, it will be a long time before I have to be
> concerned about this, but I was wondering.
>
> --------
> HOMEBUILDER
> Will WORK for Spruce
> Long flights, smooth air, and soft landings,
> GliderMike, aka Mike Glasgow
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328394#328394
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 1932 vs. 1933 empennage? |
| From: | Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
Couldn't you also use a shorter bell-crank to provide less elevator
deflection?
On Tue, Jan 25, 2011 at 12:06 PM, bradandlinda tds.net wrote:
> Elevator Size. On the Piet that I bought (NX29NX) has a large elevator
> that comes close to the ground. I personally feel it is too large a surface
> area, and is overly sensitive in the ground effect (t.o. and landing).
> Everyone who flys it for the first time gets a surprise on its sensitivity,
> and has to remind himself to use very small and light elevator inputs. If
> I were ever to build the elevator again, I would make it about 1/4 to 1/3
> less area. Brad Williams
>
> On Tue, Jan 25, 2011 at 8:11 AM, Gboothe5 wrote:
>
>>
>> Yes, Glider, empennage easily removes for transport.
>>
>> Gary
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
>> GliderMike
>> Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2011 5:53 AM
>> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: 1932 vs. 1933 empennage?
>>
>> >
>>
>> I would think you would definitely want to add the bracing, for some extra
>> strength. The longer fuselage would not need as much horizontal control
>> surface as the shorter one, because of the leverage moment being larger,
>> so
>> it might be a little more sensitive on control input from the elevator,
>> than
>> it would be with the short fuselage. I read someone's comment that the
>> elevator was a tad sensitive on someone's airplane, but I don't know which
>> elevator they used. The "New Improved" elevator sounds like it is larger
>> than what you have set up, so I would think you would be good with what
>> you
>> have. I would definitely add the diagonal braces, though, as I mentioned
>> at
>> first. My 2 cents worth.
>>
>> Since horizontals are being discussed, are the horizontal portions of the
>> empennage mounted so they can be removed when the airplane is moved from
>> the
>> house to the airport for final assembly? I don't have plans (again) yet,
>> and
>> at the rate things are going, it will be a long time before I have to be
>> concerned about this, but I was wondering.
>>
>> --------
>> HOMEBUILDER
>> Will WORK for Spruce
>> Long flights, smooth air, and soft landings,
>> GliderMike, aka Mike Glasgow
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328394#328394
>> utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
>> www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List" target="_blank">
>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>> ronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
>> Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>> ====
>>
>>
>>
>>
> *
>
> *
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Brace cables, pulleys, wing supports |
| From: | "Kringle" <Mrkringles(at)msn.com> |
Gary,
Every time you post one of those beautiful high resolution pictures....I save them
to a folder titled "How I want mine to look" !
--------
John
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328489#328489
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Mike Cuy DVD back in production |
| From: | "bubbleboy" <scott.dawson3(at)bigpond.com> |
Hi Mike....with these minor hiccups sorted is there a possibility I may be able
to play it here in Australia now? I even took the one you sent me to an audio
guy to try and have it made playable here and he was stumped!
Scotty
--------
Scotty
Tamworth, Australia
Building a Corvair Powered Pietenpol Air Camper
www.scottyspietenpol.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328491#328491
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Control stick connection |
Hi Steve,
I've got a good deal of play in my joystick (more than I would like to
have). I would think you should eliminate all you can, because more will
come in from cable stretch and other connections. Since the joystick was
one of the first pieces I welded and I was still learning (and still am
today), some of the fits were not quite as precise as they should have been.
Doesn't affect flight, but it does affect the feel of the airplane. I want
to spend some time this spring optimizing the control system and this is one
area I will concentrate on.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Raleigh, NC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
chase143(at)aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2011 10:32 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Control stick connection
Can I get feedback on how much (if any) "play" there should/can be in the
control sticks? My flight controls are in (minus the cables), but the
control sticks seem to have a little bit of play (side to side only), which
appears to be from the control stick bottom tabs which have the torque tube
bolt through them (holes/bolt correct size and all seems to be per the
plans). Have others modified the control stick tabs on the bottom or the
torque tube in some way to alleviate this?
Thanks,
Steve
--------
Steve
www.mypiet.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328412#328412
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Mike Cuy DVD back in production |
| From: | Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
When playing the DVD down-under (Southern hemisphere) you must rotate it
counter-clockwise ?:)
On Tue, Jan 25, 2011 at 2:48 PM, bubbleboy wrote:
> scott.dawson3(at)bigpond.com>
>
> Hi Mike....with these minor hiccups sorted is there a possibility I may be
> able to play it here in Australia now? I even took the one you sent me to an
> audio guy to try and have it made playable here and he was stumped!
>
> Scotty
>
> --------
> Scotty
>
> Tamworth, Australia
> Building a Corvair Powered Pietenpol Air Camper
>
> www.scottyspietenpol.com
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328491#328491
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Cardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Control stick connection |
There is a small amount of lateral play in the control stick on NX18235.
About 1/8" - 1/4" measured at the top of the control stick. It is not
noticable in flight but less is better.
Greg Cardinal
----- Original Message -----
From: "chase143(at)aol.com" <chase143(at)aol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2011 9:31 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Control stick connection
>
>
> Can I get feedback on how much (if any) "play" there should/can be in the
> control sticks? My flight controls are in (minus the cables), but the
> control sticks seem to have a little bit of play (side to side only),
> which appears to be from the control stick bottom tabs which have the
> torque tube bolt through them (holes/bolt correct size and all seems to be
> per the plans). Have others modified the control stick tabs on the bottom
> or the torque tube in some way to alleviate this?
> Thanks,
> Steve
>
> --------
> Steve
> www.mypiet.com
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328412#328412
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Control stick connection |
| From: | helspersew(at)aol.com |
Steve,
Just went out to the hangar to check. I would say the side-to-side play on
mine is 1/8" to 3/16". Like Greg C., I can't feel this in flight.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
-----Original Message-----
From: chase143(at)aol.com <chase143(at)aol.com>
Sent: Tue, Jan 25, 2011 9:34 am
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Control stick connection
om>
Can I get feedback on how much (if any) "play" there should/can be in the
ontrol sticks? My flight controls are in (minus the cables), but the contr
ol
ticks seem to have a little bit of play (side to side only), which appears
to
e from the control stick bottom tabs which have the torque tube bolt throug
h
hem (holes/bolt correct size and all seems to be per the plans). Have other
s
odified the control stick tabs on the bottom or the torque tube in some way
to
lleviate this?
hanks,
teve
--------
teve
ww.mypiet.com
ead this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328412#328412
-= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum -
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-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
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________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Mike Cuy DVD back in production |
| From: | "bubbleboy" <scott.dawson3(at)bigpond.com> |
A bit like the Corvair prop Rick...haha 8)
--------
Scotty
Tamworth, Australia
Building a Corvair Powered Pietenpol Air Camper
www.scottyspietenpol.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328508#328508
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Control stick connection |
Steve,
I have ZERO play=85and the first liar doesn=92t stand a chance.
Seriously, I
have zero play! But I didn=92t follow the plans (Sorry Dan!). Ignore the
fact
that I am using push tubes, a la Peter From Down Under.
In Pic #9 you will see that I inserted a =91bushing=92 through the
torque tube,
and brazed both ends. The bushing is able to receive a =BC=94 bolt, with
the OD
chosen to be just under the drill size for the holes in the control
stick
ears.
#17 shows the bushing extending thru the ears.
In #44 you can barely see the bold and the castle nut, but this could
easily
be a pin, as there is zero force on the bolt.
Now, build with confidence=85
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, Running!
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(24 ribs down=85)
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tue Jan 25 17:49:19 2011
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Control stick connection
Steve,
Just went out to the hangar to check. I would say the side-to-side play
on
mine is 1/8" to 3/16". Like Greg C., I can't feel this in flight.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
-----Original Message-----
From: chase143(at)aol.com <chase143(at)aol.com>
Sent: Tue, Jan 25, 2011 9:34 am
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Control stick connection
Can I get feedback on how much (if any) "play" there should/can be in
the
control sticks? My flight controls are in (minus the cables), but the
control
sticks seem to have a little bit of play (side to side only), which
appears
to
be from the control stick bottom tabs which have the torque tube bolt
through
them (holes/bolt correct size and all seems to be per the plans). Have
others
modified the control stick tabs on the bottom or the torque tube in some
way
to
alleviate this?
Thanks,
Steve
--------
Steve
www.mypiet.com <http://www.mypiet.com/>
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328412#328412
" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
p://forums.matronics.com
blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Confidentiality Notice: This email is intended for the sole use of the
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG FORSCOM" <steven.d.dortch(at)us.army.mil> |
| Subject: | Re: Mike Cuy DVD back in production |
There is a different format between euro style and US style DVD formats. Ask a
computer geek friend they should be able to find one. I have it on my computer
at home so I could play DVDs given to me by Italian and British Army buddies.
Blue Skies,
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: bubbleboy <scott.dawson3(at)bigpond.com>
Date: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 0:57
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Mike Cuy DVD back in production
>
> Hi Mike....with these minor hiccups sorted is there a possibility I may be able
to play it here in Australia now? I even took the one you sent me
> to an audio guy to try and have it made playable here and he was
> stumped!
> Scotty
>
> --------
> Scotty
>
> Tamworth, Australia
> Building a Corvair Powered Pietenpol Air Camper
>
> www.scottyspietenpol.com
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328491#328491
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Brace cables, pulleys, wing supports |
| From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
This is awesome. I know that it was posted recently, but I never did come back
to watch the whole thing and lost track of it. Very simple test to prove how
important it is to eliminate drag. It is making me reconsider the shapes of
a few items I've already fabricated. I hope I don't get stuck in the never ending
"Jim Markle" cycle of improving everything to infinity. Just kidding Jim!
pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net wrote:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftq8jTQ8ANE
>
> Jack Phillips
> NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
> Raleigh, NC
>
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328535#328535
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Control stick connection |
My setup is about the same, bushing/tube through torque tube, welded in place.
Bushing/tube (heavy wall) bored out just enough for a 1/4" bolt to slip through.
Stick forks fit over each end of tube with thin washers between to provide
flat bearing surface/spacer for stick forks. I am also using push/pull tubes back
to the bell crank and it appears, (no wings or ailerons connected yet) that
I have zero play as well but very free/smooth. See how that all feels in flight...someday.
Michael Perez
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Brace cables, pulleys, wing supports |
| From: | "Dangerous Dave" <dsornbor(at)aol.com> |
Just one thing on the drag issue.A round shape perpendicular the the airflow is
obviously very restrictive,but a round cylinder at an angle is an ellipse,the
steeper the angle the more oblong the ellipse and the drag on an ellipse is much
closer to a streamlined shape than a round shape,so if your round shape is
at more the 20 degrees the drag factor is negligible,especially in a Piet with
a top speed of 100mph and cruising far below that.Dave
--------
Covering Piet
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328544#328544
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "TOM STINEMETZE" <TOMS(at)mcpcity.com> |
Listers:
For those of you who have put a neat looking logo such as: "Corvair", or
"110 HP" on the side of your lifter covers; how did you do it? I have
considered just painting it on or cutting the design out of stainless
sheet which generates the additional question of; "How is it attached?" I
know the Ford guys sometimes do the logo thing on the front of the case
too so this might not be a purely Corvair question.
Tom Stinemetze
N328X
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Control stick connection |
| From: | Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
Ditto, no play.
On Tue, Jan 25, 2011 at 8:03 PM, Gary Boothe wrote:
> Steve,
>
>
> I have ZERO play=85and the first liar doesn=92t stand a chance. Seriously
, I
> have zero play! But I didn=92t follow the plans (Sorry Dan!). Ignore the
fact
> that I am using push tubes, a la Peter From Down Under.
>
>
> In Pic #9 you will see that I inserted a =91bushing=92 through the torque
tube,
> and brazed both ends. The bushing is able to receive a =BC=94 bolt, with
the OD
> chosen to be just under the drill size for the holes in the control stick
> ears.
>
>
> #17 shows the bushing extending thru the ears.
>
>
> In #44 you can barely see the bold and the castle nut, but this could
> easily be a pin, as there is zero force on the bolt.
>
>
> Now, build with confidence=85
>
>
> Gary Boothe
> Cool, Ca.
> Pietenpol
> WW Corvair Conversion, Running!
> Tail done, Fuselage on gear
> (24 ribs down=85)
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> *From*: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com <
> owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com>
> *To*: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> *Sent*: Tue Jan 25 17:49:19 2011
> *Subject*: Re: Pietenpol-List: Control stick connection
>
> Steve,
>
>
> Just went out to the hangar to check. I would say the side-to-side play o
n
> mine is 1/8" to 3/16". Like Greg C., I can't feel this in flight.
>
> Dan Helsper
>
> Poplar Grove, IL.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: chase143(at)aol.com <chase143(at)aol.com>
> To: pietenpol-list
> Sent: Tue, Jan 25, 2011 9:34 am
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Control stick connection
>
.com>
>
>
> Can I get feedback on how much (if any) "play" there should/can be in the
>
> control sticks? My flight controls are in (minus the cables), but the co
ntrol
>
> sticks seem to have a little bit of play (side to side only), which appea
rs to
>
> be from the control stick bottom tabs which have the torque tube bolt thr
ough
>
> them (holes/bolt correct size and all seems to be per the plans). Have ot
hers
>
> modified the control stick tabs on the bottom or the torque tube in some
way to
>
> alleviate this?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Steve
>
>
> --------
>
> Steve
>
> www.mypiet.com
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328412#328412
>
>
> " target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>
> p://forums.matronics.com
>
> blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List*
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://forums.matronics.com*
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>
> * *
>
> Confidentiality Notice: This email is intended for the sole use of the
> intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential, proprietary or
> privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, you are
> notified that any use, review, dissemination, copying or action taken bas
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> or delete all copies of the original message and any attachments. Thank y
ou.
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Decals |
Tom, If you can get a hold of William Wynne he gave us ours at Brodhead the
1st time we made it there with the airplane (he might have them for sale o
n his web-site).- They are a metalic silver "foil" like self adhearing de
cal.- I got lucky when I got bored and stipped and painted dad's covers f
lat silver, and orange, I did not know that the decals were silver, matched
perfect.- Any decal, sign shop should be able to make them, for a few bu
cks.
-
Shad
--- On Wed, 1/26/11, TOM STINEMETZE wrote:
From: TOM STINEMETZE <TOMS(at)mcpcity.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Engine Decals
Date: Wednesday, January 26, 2011, 9:58 AM
Listers:
-
For those of you who have put a neat looking logo such as: "Corvair", or "1
10 HP" on the side of your lifter covers; how did you do it?- I have cons
idered just painting it on or cutting the design out of stainless sheet whi
ch generates the additional question of; "How is it attached?"- I know th
e Ford guys sometimes do the logo thing on the front of the case too so thi
s might not be a purely Corvair question.
-
Tom Stinemetze
N328X
=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Knowlton <flyingscott_k(at)hotmail.com> |
I have a great deal of respect for anyone on the list who has gone to the t
ime=2C expense and effort of putting together a well equipped workshop=2C h
owever=2C I wanted to let others on the list know how few tools are require
d to actually make progress on this great old bird. Sometimes the money sp
ent buying a brake=2C bandsaw=2C tig welder=2C plasma cutter etc just slow
s down the process of building unless your finances for your piet project a
re limitless. What drew me to this project in the first place was the simp
licity of the machine and the limited tools required to build her. The att
ached photo represents 8 hours of shop time in my little one car garage wit
h a vice=2C hammer=2C drill press=2C jigsaw=2C grinder=2C files=2C sandpape
r and scotchbright. I purchased a piece of 18" by 18" 090 4130 from a loca
l metal supplier who sheared it for me into 1" and 3/4" strips (yes...with
the grain!). Total cost: 40 bucks. Now off to my Tig welding buddy down t
he street to have these welded up (that will cost a bottle of Canadian Wisk
ey). By the way=2C there is still enough left over from that piece of 4130
to build the remainder of the wing fittings.
Scott Knowlton
Burlington Ontario
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wpTqth/z8D8j/hXFo8gO1gfqRzU6SnOOfr6UxHWjWdPVQPtKg59D/hT/AO2LAk/6QOn90/4VygKy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________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Engine Decals |
| From: | "kevinpurtee" <kevin.purtee(at)us.army.mil> |
Tom - Contact me off-line. My wife cut my "AirCamper" stencils on a machine she
has and we painted the valve covers with high temp paint. Came out great.
She'll cut stencils for you, too, I bet. She loves that stuff. She'll even give
you instructions. She sent a set to Gardiner Mason as well.
kevin.purtee(at)us.army.mil
Kevin
--------
Kevin "Axel" Purtee
NX899KP
Austin/Georgetown, TX
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328568#328568
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Metal Fittings |
| From: | "kevinpurtee" <kevin.purtee(at)us.army.mil> |
Good post and good points, Scott. My redneck machine shop sounds pretty similar.
Kevin
--------
Kevin "Axel" Purtee
NX899KP
Austin/Georgetown, TX
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328569#328569
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Brace cables, pulleys, wing supports |
| From: | "DOMIT" <rx7_ragtop(at)yahoo.com> |
airlion(at)bellsouth.net wrote:
> I am in the process of streamlining my flying wires. I got some plastic corners
from home depot and cut them down to 3/8 inch wide with heavy duty scissors.
I then put gorilla duct tapearound the front edge and then folded it over to
hold onto the plastic. I hope this will give me a streamlign effect. I also got
some aluminium house siding and folded it over to clamp onto the verticle landing
gear. Hopes this works. Gardiner
>
At the speeds the Piet travels, the air has time to get around the round wires,
play a game of gin rummy, and take a nap before it gets to the next object in
it's path. :P
Seriously, the stranded cable used is NOT the same as a solid round object. The
surface texture makes a difference, it makes the airflow turbulent, and follows
the shape BETTER, kind of like the dimples on a golf ball.
--------
Brad "DOMIT" Smith
First rule of ground school: This is the ground... don't hit it going fast.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328576#328576
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Free cardboard template material |
I recently needed some posterboard for some sheet metal templates, and a do
llar a piece seems to be the going rate for a 24" by 30" or so.- Go down
to your local feed store (I remembered my highschool days of stacking horse
feed by the ton), hardware, or even grocery store and ask if you can have
the cardbord the put on the pallets the stack bags on.- Water softener sa
lt, dog food and other paletized goods almost always have a piece of cardbo
rd on the pallet so bags don't rip open.- The pieces are usually at least
48" by 48", and just the right thickness for cowling, fuselage coaming etc
mock-ups. Grab them while you can they will come in handy, I was also able
to make cardboard streamlined tube mock up by wraping and gluing it around
the tubing and sliding off when dry.- Much cheaper to mess up on the car
dboard than $15 per foot tubing!
-
Happy Building
-
Shad=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Control stick connection |
| From: | "MPB" <mike(at)seatec.us> |
Gary,
So you are using pushrods instead of cables??? If so, what controls are you doing
that with? I was considering a pushrod for the elevator control and sticking
with cables for the rudder and ailerons. Would you do it again if you could
go back?
Thanks,
Mike
Prunedale, CA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328593#328593
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Metal Fittings |
| From: | gboothe5(at)comcast.net |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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gboothe5" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Control stick connection |
Mike,
The push rods are only for elevators, and it was incredibly easy! I really
wanted a laminated control stick and couldn't figure out a way to use the
cables...that's the reason for the push rod. I'd do it again in a
heartbeat...well, actually, might take a few years, after building ribs
first, as I promised Axel!
Gary
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of MPB
Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 12:50 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Control stick connection
Gary,
So you are using pushrods instead of cables??? If so, what controls are you
doing that with? I was considering a pushrod for the elevator control and
sticking with cables for the rudder and ailerons. Would you do it again if
you could go back?
Thanks,
Mike
Prunedale, CA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328593#328593
________________________________________________________________________________
Saw this in our local classifieds in case someone is interested.
Brian
SLC-UT
$4,00000
Continental O-200 aircraft engine
Draper, UT 84020 - Jan 26, 2011
Divorce forces abandonment of restoration project. Continental O-200
dissasembled. Crank is out of tolerance, all else is OK. $4000.00 OBO
Seller Contact Info
You may not contact this user to solicit commercial services or
products. If you have been contacted for a commercial purpose please
report it here. <http://www.ksl.com/?sid=8626536&nid=386>
Contact Name:
Arnold
Home Phone:
801-824-4421
<http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=231&userid=1006986>
More by
Seller
<http://www.ksl.com/?nid=386&sid=74253&fragment=14147721&xmldb=sl
c&lock
fragment:xmldb&key=23ac49c7c1e9ffa9b2671c01939bdff0>
Email
Seller
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | FW: O-200 for sale |
Correction of TYPO......its $4000.00 not 4,00000.
From: Jardine, Brian E @ CSG - CSW
Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 3:54 PM
Subject: O-200 for sale
Saw this in our local classifieds in case someone is interested.
Brian
SLC-UT
$4,00000
Continental O-200 aircraft engine
Draper, UT 84020 - Jan 26, 2011
Divorce forces abandonment of restoration project. Continental O-200
dissasembled. Crank is out of tolerance, all else is OK. $4000.00 OBO
Seller Contact Info
You may not contact this user to solicit commercial services or
products. If you have been contacted for a commercial purpose please
report it here. <http://www.ksl.com/?sid=8626536&nid=386>
Contact Name:
Arnold
Home Phone:
801-824-4421
<http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=231&userid=1006986>
More by
Seller
<http://www.ksl.com/?nid=386&sid=74253&fragment=14147721&xmldb=sl
c&lock
fragment:xmldb&key=23ac49c7c1e9ffa9b2671c01939bdff0>
Email
Seller
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | airlion <airlion(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Brace cables, pulleys, wing supports |
Thanks for the input Domit. I had not thought about the wires being dimpled a
low speeds. Are you related to Kevin&Quot?
----- Original Message ----
From: DOMIT <rx7_ragtop(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Wed, January 26, 2011 1:35:23 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Brace cables, pulleys, wing supports
airlion(at)bellsouth.net wrote:
> I am in the process of streamlining my flying wires. I got some plastic corners
>from home depot and cut them down to 3/8 inch wide with heavy duty scissors. I
>then put gorilla duct tapearound the front edge and then folded it over to hold
>onto the plastic. I hope this will give me a streamlign effect. I also got some
>aluminium house siding and folded it over to clamp onto the verticle landing
>gear. Hopes this works. Gardiner
>
At the speeds the Piet travels, the air has time to get around the round wires,
play a game of gin rummy, and take a nap before it gets to the next object in
it's path. :P
Seriously, the stranded cable used is NOT the same as a solid round object. The
surface texture makes a difference, it makes the airflow turbulent, and follows
the shape BETTER, kind of like the dimples on a golf ball.
--------
Brad "DOMIT" Smith
First rule of ground school: This is the ground... don't hit it going fast.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328576#328576
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Clif Dawson" <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Center section |
Actually I think my hand was unsteady due to a lack
of double shot latte which in turn was due to a
terrible lack of Franklins in my pocket. Well, actually
our Canuck equivalent, Beavers. :-)
We have a lot of beavers up here. That's why we're all
so laid back.
Clif
>
> Hey Cliff,
>
> The last picture is a bit blurry or did you take the picture with your
> Franklin engine running...(bing-sputter-bing-sputter!) tee-hee-hee
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> |
Hey all,
I'm not much of an electronics guy, so I'm putting this out there.
Those of you flying, and using a handheld radio, do you find you need an
external antenna or are you fine without?
Then, if an antenna is a helpful thing, can a large piece of sheet metal,
such as covering the lower bay behind my seat bulkhead do? (is this what I
hear called a "ground plane"?) or does one need a regular antenna?
Since she's "naked" again, this is a good time to address those little
things rather than retrofitting.
Thanks
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ben Charvet <bencharvet(at)gmail.com> |
//I started out using the handheld antenna, but later installed an
external antenna. I mounted it to top cover on my center section
storage area, and my radio seems to work better. I have unshielded
harnesses on my A-65, so my radio is pretty noisy at cruise, but it
still works OK.
Ben
On 1/27/2011 7:59 AM, Douwe Blumberg wrote:
>
> Hey all,
>
> I'm not much of an electronics guy, so I'm putting this out there.
>
> Those of you flying, and using a handheld radio, do you find you need
> an external antenna or are you fine without?
>
> Then, if an antenna is a helpful thing, can a large piece of sheet
> metal, such as covering the lower bay behind my seat bulkhead do? (is
> this what I hear called a "ground plane"?) or does one need a regular
> antenna?
>
> Since she's "naked" again, this is a good time to address those little
> things rather than retrofitting.
>
> Thanks
>
> Douwe
>
> *
>
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> |
Douwe, I used to be a radio amateur operator and know just a bit about
antennae. The radio would definately have more range with an outside
antenna, preferably mounted vertically. The antenna and ground plane
would then be connected to the radio with coaxial cable. The vertical
antenna should be connected to the center connector of the cable and the
ground plane connected to the metallic sleeve (or shield). The antenna
would be called a 'quarter-wave' ground plane antenna. The antenna
should be cut to a quarter wave length at the center of the operating
range. I have forgotten what the range of frequencies you would be
transmitting on, but figure the center of that range (not including the
VOR/ILS frequencies). Then use the following formula to calculate the
length of the vertical antenna. The ground plane should be as large as
you can convieniently make it. Mount the antenna vertically over the
ground plane, if possible (the two should not touch each other). For
instance, if you put the ground plane in the area directly behind the
rear seat you could mount the antenna on the rounded part of the
fuselage ( I've forgotten what it's called.) If you can find a "feed
through" insulator that's the best way to mount the antenna. Solder all
connections. The ground plane could be either aluminum (no solder) or a
sheet of thin steel. Thickness doesn't matter.
Antenna length (in feet)=234/Freq. (MHz) ie. for 121.7 megahertz the
antenna length would be 234/121.7=1.92 ft, (23inches). Something
happened to this post that caused the squiggly line. Sorry about that.
`````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
`````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
`````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
`````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
`````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
`````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
`````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
```````````
----- Original Message -----
From: Douwe Blumberg
To: pietenpolgroup
Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2011 7:59 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: antenna
Hey all,
I'm not much of an electronics guy, so I'm putting this out there.
Those of you flying, and using a handheld radio, do you find you need
an external antenna or are you fine without?
Then, if an antenna is a helpful thing, can a large piece of sheet
metal, such as covering the lower bay behind my seat bulkhead do? (is
this what I hear called a "ground plane"?) or does one need a regular
antenna?
Since she's "naked" again, this is a good time to address those little
things rather than retrofitting.
Thanks
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Ruse <steve(at)wotelectronics.com> |
Douwe,
An external antenna increased the range of my handheld from maybe 5
miles to as much as 125 miles air to air. I had my plane based at
Meacham (class D) under DFW's class B for a year, and I could not have
operated that way without the external antenna. So the external
antenna will give you a lot more options when it comes to
communicating (not to mention air to air with friends, busy airspace,
INTELLIGIBILITY/clarity, etc.). If you intend to talk to people I
highly recommend an external antenna.
My antenna is an 1/8" brass brazing rod of the proper length, about
20.3" I believe, but verify that number. I can post it later. You
need to be within .25" or so of the exact length.
The "ground plane" is at the base of the antenna, but it is NOT the
antenna. For my plane it is the bottom of the nose cowling. The
ground plane needs to be attached to the braided ground shield from
the coax going to your radio, and it has to be insulated from the coax
center conductor which is the signal carrier. The center conductor
goes to the antenna. I soldered the center conductor through a hold
drilled in the top of the brass brazing rod. The brass rod is mounted
through a hole in my ground plane, insulated from the ground plane
using a variety of nylon bushings (nylon tubes and large thick nylon
"washers" or bushings) from the hardware store. Any large piece of
sheetmetal (or even foil) can be a ground plane. Large is ideally
about a 20" radius...my cowling is smaller in width but works well.
It is very important that the tip of your antenna is not close to any
other piece of metal. Being close to metal will distort the radiation
pattern or kill it completely. I.e., if it is too close to the gear
legs or a control cable, the antenna may be very strong away from the
gear leg but very weak towards the gear leg. Ideally, keep the tip
probably 16" to 20" from metal. Less than 12" will probably cause
significant reduction in performance.
You can buy cable and connectors from Jim Weir at RST Engineering.
(Jim worked for NASA on the Apollo program I believe it was). He also
has an aircraft antenna booklet that will tell you in very practical
language how you need to build your antenna, and he tells you how to
build about three different types that will work and can go inside or
outside of the plane (assuming you have a suitable place to mount one
inside). Inside is better because it looks right (Piets shouldn't
have antennas, although mine does...hidden by the gear) and it
eliminates drag (does that matter to us?). Use RG-58 coax...the stuff
you use for your TV WON'T WORK for your airplane.
http://www.rst-engr.com/rst/catalog/small_part.html
Send Jim an e-mail and ask how you can buy his Antenna Reference Text
(RST-8020). I think it was about $15, but well worth it. It'll save
you ten or twenty times that much compared to buying an antenna.
Some more good antenna information:
http://www.bowersflybaby.com/stories/antenna.htm
Hope this helps. E-mail me if you have some specific questions.
Steve Ruse
Norman, OK
Quoting Douwe Blumberg :
> Hey all,
>
>
> I'm not much of an electronics guy, so I'm putting this out there.
>
>
> Those of you flying, and using a handheld radio, do you find you need an
> external antenna or are you fine without?
>
>
> Then, if an antenna is a helpful thing, can a large piece of sheet metal,
> such as covering the lower bay behind my seat bulkhead do? (is this what I
> hear called a "ground plane"?) or does one need a regular antenna?
>
>
> Since she's "naked" again, this is a good time to address those little
> things rather than retrofitting.
>
>
> Thanks
>
>
> Douwe
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> |
Douwe, I sent you an epistle about antennas but it doesn't show up in my
'Sent items' box. I'll try to resend the important part. The main
thing is that the antenna should be the correct length - size of ground
plane doesn't really matter, the bigger the better. Formula for antenna
length: 234/frequency in MHz. For instance: For 121.7 MHz, antenna
would be 234/121.7=1.9 feet (23 inches) long. Cut the antenna for the
center of the band of frequencies you would be transmitting on (I've
forgotten the range).
Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: Douwe Blumberg
To: pietenpolgroup
Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2011 7:59 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: antenna
Hey all,
I'm not much of an electronics guy, so I'm putting this out there.
Those of you flying, and using a handheld radio, do you find you need
an external antenna or are you fine without?
Then, if an antenna is a helpful thing, can a large piece of sheet
metal, such as covering the lower bay behind my seat bulkhead do? (is
this what I hear called a "ground plane"?) or does one need a regular
antenna?
Since she's "naked" again, this is a good time to address those little
things rather than retrofitting.
Thanks
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> |
Douwe, a piece of welding rod cut to the proper length would work for
the antenna. Because of recent posts on the net maybe you should
streamline it :-) There is a commercially available vertical antenna
that goes vertical for a few inches and is then bent backward at about
45 degrees. The designer was probably trying to reduce the drag. If
you're going to mount it on a large hunk of metal, find yourself a
'feed-thru' insulator to mount it with. Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: Douwe Blumberg
To: pietenpolgroup
Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2011 7:59 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: antenna
Hey all,
I'm not much of an electronics guy, so I'm putting this out there.
Those of you flying, and using a handheld radio, do you find you need
an external antenna or are you fine without?
Then, if an antenna is a helpful thing, can a large piece of sheet
metal, such as covering the lower bay behind my seat bulkhead do? (is
this what I hear called a "ground plane"?) or does one need a regular
antenna?
Since she's "naked" again, this is a good time to address those little
things rather than retrofitting.
Thanks
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Brace cables, pulleys, wing supports |
| From: | "BYD" <billsayre(at)ymail.com> |
While working on streamlining your Piet, don't forget turnbuckle fairings. Here's
an example of a simple installation.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328682#328682
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/turnbuckle_fairing_176.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Brace cables, pulleys, wing supports |
| From: | "TriScout" <apfelcyber(at)yahoo.com> |
I like this discussion. That should be worth about another 10mph?.. Speaking of
less drag, are there any Lopresti speed fairing kits out there for the Piet?
It would be nice to tweak an extra 50-60 mph out of an A65.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328685#328685
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Barry Davis" <bed(at)mindspring.com> |
I made those and gave them to WW. I also made some for Aeromax and others
including the AirCamper logo. email me off-group and let me know what you
need.
Barry Davis
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of TOM
STINEMETZE
Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 9:58 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Engine Decals
Listers:
For those of you who have put a neat looking logo such as: "Corvair", or
"110 HP" on the side of your lifter covers; how did you do it? I have
considered just painting it on or cutting the design out of stainless sheet
which generates the additional question of; "How is it attached?" I know
the Ford guys sometimes do the logo thing on the front of the case too so
this might not be a purely Corvair question.
Tom Stinemetze
N328X
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
Douwe:
I agree with chuck's post on the quarter wave calculations and the need to mount
your antenna at the center of the "ground plane". There are ways to overcome
the length issue (nearly 2 feet) such as coiling a portion of the wire (that
is essentially what they have done in your handheld's rubber ducky antenna),
or by folding it back onto itself (without touching itself), but you will likely
degrade the effectiveness of the element if you do (create directivity, reduce
range, etc.).
You may or may not know, but your hand held is likely feeding your signal through
a BNC connector. You will want to get a BNC cable in order to feed your antenna...
don't convert from one connector type, to another, then to a cable, then
to another connection in order to get a signal to your antenna. The fewer
the connections the better as each additional connection results in some level
of signal loss, known as a bump in the electronics world. Also, keep your feedline
(cable between your radio and antenna) as short as reasonably possible.
I'm not suggesting that you run a tight line straight to your antenna, but
don't coil a 50' cable under the seat either. Aside from the obvious weight consideration
and the chance that it flop around, it will also attenuate (reduce)
your signal unnecessarily. You should be able to make this connection with
a 6, 8 or 10 foot cable, which are readily available from a variety of sources.
I've inserted a couple of BNC type connectors below so that you know what we are
talking about. If you need any help at all, feel free to shoot me a note.
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328708#328708
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/bnc_968.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: wax solvent and trim tab size |
| From: | "womenfly2" <keriannprice(at)hotmail.com> |
Answers:
1. Sander the inside.
2. Pietenpols do not have trim tabs.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328712#328712
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Brace cables, pulleys, wing supports |
All of my turnbuckles are in line with the slip stream - not crosswise.
What can we do to reduce the drag on those?
----- Original Message -----
From: "BYD" <billsayre(at)ymail.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2011 10:22 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Brace cables, pulleys, wing supports
>
> While working on streamlining your Piet, don't forget turnbuckle fairings.
> Here's an example of a simple installation.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328682#328682
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/turnbuckle_fairing_176.jpg
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
I've received a couple of messages stating that my photo link didn't come through
properly in the e-mail version. It's not a big deal... just a photo of a variety
of different BNC connectors.
Here is the direct link for those that might be interested.
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328731#328731
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dick N" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Ski pictures |
Thanks Don
That took care of all of my questions. Now I'll start building.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2011 5:37 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Ski pictures
>
> Just thought I'd post a few pictures of the skis that I've borrowed from
> Frank Pavliga. Eventually I plan to build my own. I'll post the very
> amateurish sketch that I made too. Every Piet pilot should have the
> opportunity to lower their cold tolerance by flying on skis!
>
> Don Emch
> NX899DE
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=326953#326953
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/ski_5_144.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/ski_4_325.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/ski_3_136.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/ski_2_985.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/ski_1_478.jpg
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Stainless firewall |
| From: | "Jerry Dotson" <jdotson(at)centurylink.net> |
I got an elevator door skin that is brand new. It has a tiny ding on one end is
the reason I got it. It is just the right width with 90 degree flanges....already
half made. I need to take a support out of it that is glued in. The glue
is gray colored and not rock hard but yet it is not rubbery. How do I get the
glue to turn loose without harming that mirror finish? Heat?? I tried a heat gun
and it didn't put out enough heat.
--------
Jerry Dotson
59 Daniel Johnson Rd
Baker, FL 32531
Started building NX510JD July, 2009
wing, tailfeathers done, fuselage rolling
using Lycoming O-235
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328750#328750
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Wing Construction |
| From: | "cjborsuk" <cjborsuk(at)yahoo.com> |
Making progress on my Piet. Wanted to share some pictures.
Chuck
Raleigh NC
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328752#328752
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/left_wing_1_s_138.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/center_section_s_177.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/right_wing_3_s_160.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/right_wing_2_s_137.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/right_wing_1_s_193.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/left_wing_4_s_219.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/left_wing_2_s_214.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/spars_005_s_112.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/spars_004_s_573.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/spars_001_s_323.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Piet building youtube videos |
| From: | "cjborsuk" <cjborsuk(at)yahoo.com> |
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6byakUaHL0
Chuck
Raleigh
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328753#328753
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wing Construction |
| From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
Nice... very exciting when all those ribs start to look like a wing.
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328755#328755
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wing Construction |
| From: | "bender" <jfaith(at)solairusaviation.com> |
i look forward to that day... it looks great
what size plywood web is that if you don't mind me asking ??
jeff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328769#328769
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "bender" <jfaith(at)solairusaviation.com> |
my ford has a place to sit after a day at work
looking forward to some spars
jeff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328770#328770
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/emount_590.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CJ Borsuk <cjborsuk(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing Construction |
"what size plywood web is that?"
-
I used 3/8 for the web. 1/4 for the fillers.
Chuck Borsuk=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Piet building youtube videos |
| From: | "Billy McCaskill" <billmz(at)cox.net> |
Very nice. Your bending jig looks like it's deep enough to accomodate more than
1 capstrip at a time, why not pre-bend 2 or 3 at a time?
--------
Billy McCaskill
Urbana, IL
tail section almost done, starting on ribs soon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328778#328778
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Cardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing Construction |
Very nice, Chuck.
Tell us a little about your spars. What material did you use for the web and
flanges? What are the dimensions?
Thanks,
Greg Cardinal
Minneapolis
----- Original Message -----
From: "cjborsuk" <cjborsuk(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2011 5:43 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing Construction
>
> Making progress on my Piet. Wanted to share some pictures.
>
> Chuck
> Raleigh NC
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328752#328752
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/left_wing_1_s_138.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/center_section_s_177.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/right_wing_3_s_160.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/right_wing_2_s_137.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/right_wing_1_s_193.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/left_wing_4_s_219.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/left_wing_2_s_214.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/spars_005_s_112.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/spars_004_s_573.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/spars_001_s_323.jpg
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Piet building youtube videos |
| From: | "cjborsuk" <cjborsuk(at)yahoo.com> |
You are right, I could have fit about 3 in there at a time. I had a system going
that worked well and produced a finished rib per day, so I did not gain anything
by bending more than one at a time. I also felt I had a bit more control
over the quality bending one at a time.
I am not in a big hurry. Trying to enjoy the process.
Chuck
Raleigh NC
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328783#328783
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Wing Construction |
Looking good, Chuck.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Raleigh, NC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of cjborsuk
Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2011 6:43 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing Construction
Making progress on my Piet. Wanted to share some pictures.
Chuck
Raleigh NC
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328752#328752
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/left_wing_1_s_138.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/center_section_s_177.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/right_wing_3_s_160.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/right_wing_2_s_137.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/right_wing_1_s_193.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/left_wing_4_s_219.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/left_wing_2_s_214.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/spars_005_s_112.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/spars_004_s_573.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/spars_001_s_323.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wing Construction |
| From: | "cjborsuk" <cjborsuk(at)yahoo.com> |
I used a combination of quarter-inch and three-eighth marine ply, doug fir and
spruce. I cut the 3/8 ply to width and scarfed two pieces together. After a lot
of trial and error on getting the scarf joints to work, I came up with a solution
using my table saw. I am very pleased with the result. I can go into more
detail on how I did this if needed. I then ripped the doug fir for the top and
bottom of the spars and scarfed those together. I used the quarter-inch ply
to fill in the middle and end of the spars. I had some left over spruce that
I planed down for the tips.
Results:
Time: This method takes much longer than using solid spruce and routing out the
spars.
Money: I saved a bunch of money. I figure I spent about $300 total for all the
material. I was able to buy the marine ply and doug fir local.
Weight: Based on what I have been able to determine using info in the forum, they
weigh slightly less than the routed spruce spars.
Strength: I am sure this could be debated, but I think they are stronger than the
spruce.
As stated many times in this forum, I find that working with spruce is much more
enjoyable than working with the doug fir. Spruce is just a joy to work with.
With the doug fir plan on many splinters. All my ribs are spruce and I did not
get the first splinter.
Overall, I am very pleased with the way the spars turned out.
Dimensions: Approx 5 inches tall (front spar a bit taller than the aft). 7/8 on
the width.
Chuck
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328787#328787
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wing Construction |
| From: | "cjborsuk" <cjborsuk(at)yahoo.com> |
Definitely a lot of Mike Cuy in there! I also need to give credit to the person
behind the attached drawing. Who drew this? I must thank you!
Chuck
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328790#328790
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/spar_sketch_195.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "MyrickPiet" <N762sierra(at)gmail.com> |
For those who always want to know everything, BNC stands for Berkely Nuclear Corp'n
and started during the Manhatten project. So now your Piet will join the
elite. Go fly!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328791#328791
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: engine mount |
| From: | "Billy McCaskill" <billmz(at)cox.net> |
Looking real nice, Jeff! You're making great progress...
--------
Billy McCaskill
Urbana, IL
tail section almost done, starting on ribs soon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328800#328800
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Stainless firewall |
| From: | "Billy McCaskill" <billmz(at)cox.net> |
Maybe try a propane torch? I think the stainless is acting like a giant heat sink
and is dissipating the heat from the heat gun too quickly to break down the
bond of the adhesive.
--------
Billy McCaskill
Urbana, IL
tail section almost done, starting on ribs soon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328801#328801
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> |
WOW! All of your answers were exactly what I needed to get me going, thanks!
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wing Construction |
| From: | "Dangerous Dave" <dsornbor(at)aol.com> |
Chuck,beauty job.Keep up the good work.dave
--------
Covering Piet
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328812#328812
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing Construction |
Yes, I have a couple of questions. I have been planning to use solid
3/4-inch boards for my spars. A few pics on the forum, including yours,
have sort of gotten me thinking about built-up spars. First, where did you
find 3/8-inch thick plywood, and how did you scarf the plywood pieces on a
table saw? You asked for it! :>) Chuck C, Winston-Salem, NC
----- Original Message -----
From: "cjborsuk" <cjborsuk(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2011 10:15 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing Construction
>
> I used a combination of quarter-inch and three-eighth marine ply, doug fir
> and spruce. I cut the 3/8 ply to width and scarfed two pieces together.
> After a lot of trial and error on getting the scarf joints to work, I came
> up with a solution using my table saw. I am very pleased with the result.
> I can go into more detail on how I did this if needed. I then ripped the
> doug fir for the top and bottom of the spars and scarfed those together. I
> used the quarter-inch ply to fill in the middle and end of the spars. I
> had some left over spruce that I planed down for the tips.
>
> Results:
> Time: This method takes much longer than using solid spruce and routing
> out the spars.
> Money: I saved a bunch of money. I figure I spent about $300 total for all
> the material. I was able to buy the marine ply and doug fir local.
> Weight: Based on what I have been able to determine using info in the
> forum, they weigh slightly less than the routed spruce spars.
> Strength: I am sure this could be debated, but I think they are stronger
> than the spruce.
>
> As stated many times in this forum, I find that working with spruce is
> much more enjoyable than working with the doug fir. Spruce is just a joy
> to work with. With the doug fir plan on many splinters. All my ribs are
> spruce and I did not get the first splinter.
> Overall, I am very pleased with the way the spars turned out.
>
> Dimensions: Approx 5 inches tall (front spar a bit taller than the aft).
> 7/8 on the width.
>
> Chuck
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328787#328787
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: the Pietenpol has drag written all over it |
| From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
What's wrong with putting whipped cream on an onion?
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328829#328829
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Piet building youtube videos |
| From: | "MPB" <mike(at)seatec.us> |
Chuck,
How long did you have to leave it in the jig? Did you wet the cap strip down first
or steam it? That looks like a pretty slick way to form them!
Thanks for the video.
Mike
Prunedale, CA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328830#328830
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Metal Fittings |
| From: | "PShipman" <perrytshipman(at)gmail.com> |
Scott,
Thanks for pointing out the spirit of building the Piet as a low cost homebuilt!
I breathed a sigh of releaf reading your post ... potential equipment costs
and limited space were already starting to worry me. And my partner and I have
only just begun.
Hoorah for you!
Perry
--------
Perry Shipman
Lakeside, CA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328886#328886
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Piet building youtube videos |
| From: | "Dangerous Dave" <dsornbor(at)aol.com> |
My economy jig.dave
--------
Covering Piet
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328893#328893
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/piet_8_28_10_011_210.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Ford Engine Modifications |
| From: | "PShipman" <perrytshipman(at)gmail.com> |
Has anyone built a Piet with a modified Model A Ford engine (i.e. high compression
head, high torque cam, etc.)?
If so, what have been the results?
If not, what have been the concerns that have kept folks from doing that?
--------
Perry Shipman
Lakeside, CA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328903#328903
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Piet building youtube videos |
| From: | "cjborsuk" <cjborsuk(at)yahoo.com> |
Mike,
I let the capstrip soak about 24hrs. I bought a 5' piece of PVC pipe and a cap
from Home Depot. I didn't even glue the cap. About $4, I believe.
Gotta love Dave's jig for real economy!
Chuck
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328906#328906
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Doug Dever <chiefpepperhead(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Ford Engine Modifications |
Talk to Pieti Lowell. I think his puts out aroung 90hp.
Doug Dever
In beautiful Stow Ohio
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Ford Engine Modifications
> From: perrytshipman(at)gmail.com
> Date: Sat=2C 29 Jan 2011 05:59:11 -0800
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>
>
>
> Has anyone built a Piet with a modified Model A Ford engine (i.e. high co
mpression head=2C high torque cam=2C etc.)?
>
> If so=2C what have been the results?
>
> If not=2C what have been the concerns that have kept folks from doing tha
t?
>
> --------
> Perry Shipman
> Lakeside=2C CA
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328903#328903
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Doug Dever <chiefpepperhead(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Ford Engine Modifications |
In talking with the Model A hot rodders the biggest problem with it is it d
eosn't breath well. Bigger intake valves do more to increase hp than anyth
ing. You could probably go to 5.9:1 without any problems if you call that
high compression. Lowell?
Doug Dever
In beautiful Stow Ohio
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Ford Engine Modifications
> From: perrytshipman(at)gmail.com
> Date: Sat=2C 29 Jan 2011 05:59:11 -0800
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>
>
>
> Has anyone built a Piet with a modified Model A Ford engine (i.e. high co
mpression head=2C high torque cam=2C etc.)?
>
> If so=2C what have been the results?
>
> If not=2C what have been the concerns that have kept folks from doing tha
t?
>
> --------
> Perry Shipman
> Lakeside=2C CA
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328903#328903
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Ford Engine Modifications |
| From: | "Pieti Lowell" <Lowellcfrank(at)yahoo.com> |
An A or B can have inserts and a 6.5 compression ratio, I installed fuel injection
on my A in 1992, ran it 2 years , and completely dissembled it to check it's
Babbitt, There was no problems, When using a 76 X 42 Prop the RPM increased
to 2500 at full throttle , Even at that speed there was no damage to the engine,
The B I now run is highly modified with close to 80 HP, swinging a 76 X 47
prop. With many mods it was worked on in 1988, torn down for inspection twice
. reassembled and is still working well.
Carburetor in important, The best HP that I found , was a progressive two barrel.
Pieti Lowell
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328913#328913
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Amsafetyc(at)gmail.com" <amsafetyc(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Fw: Aol mail address addition |
Resend
Sent via DROID on Verizon Wireless
-----Original message-----
From: "Amsafetyc(at)gmail.com" <amsafetyc(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Sat, Jan 29, 2011 16:37:57 GMT+00:00
Subject: Aol mail address addition
I have been experiencing difficulty posting to the forum of late. I have
rejoined the board as Amsafetyc(at)gmail.com to try to resolve the issue so if
you see the new address its still or just me.
My apologies for the confusion
I am going to keep the aol account active also so its still a viable off
list address and requires no change to your address book for my contact.
Thanks
John Recine
Amsafetyc @aolcom or gmail.com
Sent via DROID on Verizon Wireless
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Ford Engine Modifications |
| From: | "bender" <jfaith(at)solairusaviation.com> |
my engine is at Antique Engine Rebuilders now....i talked to the owner who has
built a ton of A engines about what we do with the engine..
a high compression head seems to give the most bang for the buck and fuel and air
are big too. my engine will have bigger intake valves modern chevy pistons,
lighter and better ring seal.. a reground B profile cam that has a bit more lift
and duration from what i understand. we talked about a new "340" cam... but
he seemed to think that at 2000 rpm it may not be enough worth the $500 for
the cam... he says spend the money on a good head and intake and carb. the B carb
is bigger than the A but the A intake could be opened up to match the B bore.
i plan to build my own intake... we'll see how it goes
BTW snyders is working on a new casting for their 8 plug aluminum head... i'm on
the list for one when they come out
jeff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328928#328928
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wing Construction |
| From: | "bender" <jfaith(at)solairusaviation.com> |
is the marine ply you used Meranti or Okume ?
i doesn't look like douglas fir..
i've been thinking of going the same route. one because of locally available wood
two for strength and weight.
it looks good
jeff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328929#328929
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Stainless firewall |
| From: | "carson" <carsonvella(at)yahoo.com.au> |
What about a length of piano wire pushed through between the two pieces of metal
then wrap each end around a short piece of broom stick and cut the glue that's
how I have seen windscreens that are glued in cars removed
Carson
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328935#328935
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Ford Engine Modifications |
| From: | "PShipman" <perrytshipman(at)gmail.com> |
Thanks for the feedback.
Yes ... the RPM range is the real issue ... there are lots of things you can do
with an engine that is going to do lots of RPM but at the normal range we swing
a prop it really limits the options.
The Lion Speed Head IV on Scalded Speed Parts offers 6.5 to 1 in Aluminum with
an 8 plug option.
Pieti Lowell's comment concerning a progressive two barrel makes a lot of sense
for both low and mid range power, IMO.
I always thought, though, that big values hurt mixing-flow/torque at low RPMs ...
is there an ideal size of the 2000-2500 RPM range?
--------
Perry Shipman
Lakeside, CA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328939#328939
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Stainless firewall |
| From: | "Dangerous Dave" <dsornbor(at)aol.com> |
Jerry,Get some of the nasty GOO GONE,the kind with all the tolulene and MEK and
soak it and let it sit for a day,should be able to peel it off.They have it at
Home Despot.Heat May buckle it and will probably color it,especialy if its polished,dave
--------
Covering Piet
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328941#328941
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dangerous Dave" <dsornbor(at)aol.com> |
Howdy,going to start painting em tomorrow.Yeah no more stitching!dave
--------
Covering Piet
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328942#328942
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/2011_01_29_12_14_11_882_541.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/2011_01_29_15_10_33_467_308.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Stainless firewall |
| From: | "Jerry Dotson" <jdotson(at)centurylink.net> |
I got 'er done this morning. Propane torch did the trick. That is a nice piece
of metal and the price was O so right. It has flanges on each side 24 3/8" inside.
All I will have to do is trim a little off the flanges and shape the bottom
and top. I hope to finish welding the wing tank tomorrow. My son is coming
over. His TIG welding is much better than mine.
--------
Jerry Dotson
59 Daniel Johnson Rd
Baker, FL 32531
Started building NX510JD July, 2009
wing, tailfeathers done, fuselage rolling
using Lycoming O-235
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328944#328944
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ozarkflyer" <lragan(at)hotmail.com> |
If you go to the RST engineering web site listed above, Weir has some informative
how-to articles that were published in Kitplanes.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328946#328946
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Woodflier(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | A few thoughts as the project winds up |
Now that I'm really about finished with Mike Lima, I thought I'd bore you
all with a few random thoughts. Years ago, I wrote some columns for AvWeb on
building the Piet. and in one of those, written in 2002, I opined that I
thought I might be able to keep the cost at about $8000. I wish I'd been
able to keep it at twice that! Of course, a lot of stuff increased in price
from 2002 to 2011, but there are some things I should have done to keep costs
down.
I just had to add up all the invoices to pay the Commonwealth of Virginia
"sales tax" on the airplane. All in all, I have a bit over $22,000 in it.
$8400 is in the engine, which I had overhauled by Bob Barrows, the designer
of the Bearhawk and my Technical Counselor. He's tops and I have great
confidence in his work. I think the money put into the engine is worth the
price. But, in looking at the 150-odd invoices from AC Spruce over 11 years, I
paid a TON of shipping costs. The moral - try to combine your orders as much
as possible. See if you can find a local or area source for the few things
you may have overlooked.
I thought I'd be able to build the airplane in 2-3 years. If I'd worked on
it at least 5 days a week, for 2-3 hours, I think I would have finished in
that time. But there are at least 4 years in which nothing was done, and
sometimes weeks when I did no actual work on it. But often during those
'times off', I was thinking about a problem and often would solve them in my
head without having to go down blind alleys and then redo things. I even
remember once dreaming about a problem and coming to a solution in the dream.
Other than some changes necessitated by the realities of flying in today's
world, like seatbelts, shoulder harnesses, brakes and tailwheels, I stuck
with the plans. I did appropriate Mike Cuy's fuselage tank idea, and Jack
Phillips's tailwheel steering plan. But most everything else is pure Bernard
Pietenpol.
I'm already missing having the plane in the workshop and thinking and
planning what's next. There are a few things left to do before the airworthiness
inspection and that will keep me busy for the next weeks. It is true that
the journey is as important, or more so, than the end result. I have
thoroughly enjoyed the trip.
I look forward to seeing many of you at Brodhead.
Matt Paxton
NX629ML
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | first flight hour of 2011 |
Between this weekend and one two weeks ago, I logged my first flight hour
of 2011 in Scout. The flight two weeks ago was a scant two-tenths... I
went up to test some adjustments we'd made in the engine thrustline
(good outcome!) but it was quite cold and we had had rain the day before
so things were still messy. I had to keep carb heat on quite a bit to
get full power, so conditions were ripe for carb ice and I didn't need to
be up flying anyway.
Today I put eight tenths on, giving rides to my daughter and her boyfriend.
John Kuhfahl came out to watch and also helped with prop starting. The
first flight, with boyfriend Ryan aboard, was surely very close to max
gross on the airplane and the performance reflected that. We had a high
overcast and a bit of humidity in the air, and I again needed carb heat
more than usual so I tried to be wary. Flying with my daughter in the
front cockpit, about half the passenger weight of Ryan, the airplane was
back to its usual spriteliness but the engine still wanted carb heat a
lot. I'm going to have to check the jetting and all the intake spider
clamps, since the engine seems to be running lean and that's not a good thing.
A good time was had by all, decent landings were made by the pilot, and
we all went home smiling and talking about the afternoon so I guess the
airplane worked its magic once again. I was pleasantly surprised for a few
moments while flying my daughter, when I needed to adjust my shoulder
harness and had to unbuckle both it and the lap belt to mess with them. For
perhaps 10-15 seconds, my hands were off the stick and the airplane not only
stayed mostly straight and level, it actually felt like it would have kept
doing so if not for the thermals. It's never been this stable before so I'm
glad we made the tweaks that we did: a bit of vertical stabilizer offset,
some engine down-thrust and offset to the right, and just a tad of aileron
balance adjustment between starboard and port. It's getting better and better.
Pietenpoling in south Texas in
January. Too chilly aloft for just shirt sleeves, but too warm on the
ground for jackets or gloves. Wish you were here! ;o)
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
San Antonio, TX
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | airlion <airlion(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: first flight hour of 2011 |
I went flying today for the first time in two months and it was nice in the mid
60's. Hope it stays that way for a while. Gardiner
----- Original Message ----
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Sent: Sat, January 29, 2011 8:38:40 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: first flight hour of 2011
Between this weekend and one two weeks ago, I logged my first flight hour
of 2011 in Scout. The flight two weeks ago was a scant two-tenths... I
went up to test some adjustments we'd made in the engine thrustline
(good outcome!) but it was quite cold and we had had rain the day before
so things were still messy. I had to keep carb heat on quite a bit to
get full power, so conditions were ripe for carb ice and I didn't need to
be up flying anyway.
Today I put eight tenths on, giving rides to my daughter and her boyfriend.
John Kuhfahl came out to watch and also helped with prop starting. The
first flight, with boyfriend Ryan aboard, was surely very close to max
gross on the airplane and the performance reflected that. We had a high
overcast and a bit of humidity in the air, and I again needed carb heat
more than usual so I tried to be wary. Flying with my daughter in the
front cockpit, about half the passenger weight of Ryan, the airplane was
back to its usual spriteliness but the engine still wanted carb heat a
lot. I'm going to have to check the jetting and all the intake spider
clamps, since the engine seems to be running lean and that's not a good thing.
A good time was had by all, decent landings were made by the pilot, and
we all went home smiling and talking about the afternoon so I guess the
airplane worked its magic once again. I was pleasantly surprised for a few
moments while flying my daughter, when I needed to adjust my shoulder
harness and had to unbuckle both it and the lap belt to mess with them. For
perhaps 10-15 seconds, my hands were off the stick and the airplane not only
stayed mostly straight and level, it actually felt like it would have kept
doing so if not for the thermals. It's never been this stable before so I'm
glad we made the tweaks that we did: a bit of vertical stabilizer offset,
some engine down-thrust and offset to the right, and just a tad of aileron
balance adjustment between starboard and port. It's getting better and better.
Pietenpoling in south Texas in
January. Too chilly aloft for just shirt sleeves, but too warm on the
ground for jackets or gloves. Wish you were here! ;o)
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
San Antonio, TX
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: A few thoughts as the project winds up |
| From: | "kevinpurtee" <kevin.purtee(at)us.army.mil> |
Beautiful, Matt! Thanks for the post and picture. I've realized/done a lot of
the same things you've mentioned: total costs, shipping costs, thinking about
it while out of town, etc.
Good Lord willin' we shall fly formation in July!
Will be excited to hear about the first flight.
Kevin
--------
Kevin "Axel" Purtee
NX899KP
Austin/Georgetown, TX
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328950#328950
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Clif Dawson" <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Piet building youtube videos |
DD, THAT is the most intelligent and creative jig
I've seen in a long while!
Clif
Great improvisers are like priests.
They are thinking only of their god.
Stephanie Grappelli, Jazz Violinist.
"Dangerous Dave"
> My economy jig.dave
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Clif Dawson" <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Ford Engine Modifications |
http://www.amuffler.com/dyno/dyno1.htm
http://www.modelaengine.com/
Clif
In talking with the Model A hot rodders the biggest problem with it is
it deosn't breath well. Bigger intake valves do more to increase hp
than anything. You could probably go to 5.9:1 without any problems if
you call that high compression. Lowell?
Doug Dever
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TOM MICHELLE BRANT <tmbrant(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | A few thoughts as the project winds up |
Matt=2C
Thanks for sharing your experience - this is the kind of stuff that inspire
s the rest of us. I like you have spent - and will spend far more on my Pi
et than I originally thought. I started in 2000 and I still have a long wa
y to go. I work on it when I can which is very seldom=2C but tonight was a
good night. I finally got two of my spars cut out. I plan to start worki
ng on the Cabanes this week and with a little luck i can get the center sec
tion mounted to the fuselage in another week or so. Maybe by spring I'll s
tart stringing the spars with ribs - or maybe not - depends on what life br
ings I guess.. I've finally accepted that completion is a long term goal -
not a short term goal.
Congrats on your aircraft - it looks like a beauty. I'm looking forward to
seeing it at Brodhead this summer. Enjoy.
Tom B.
From: Woodflier(at)aol.com
Date: Sat=2C 29 Jan 2011 20:30:46 -0500
Subject: Pietenpol-List: A few thoughts as the project winds up
Now that I'm really about finished with Mike Lima=2C I thought I'd bore you
all with a few random thoughts. Years ago=2C I wrote some columns for AvWeb
on
building the Piet. and in one of those=2C written in 2002=2C I opined that
I thought
I might be able to keep the cost at about $8000. I wish I'd been able to ke
ep it
at twice that! Of course=2C a lot of stuff increased in price from 2002 to
2011=2C
but there are some things I should have done to keep costs down.
I just had to add up all the invoices to pay the Commonwealth of Virginia
"sales tax" on the airplane. All in all=2C I have a bit over $22=2C000 in i
t. $8400
is in the engine=2C which I had overhauled by Bob Barrows=2C the designer o
f the
Bearhawk and my Technical Counselor. He's tops and I have great confidence
in
his work. I think the money put into the engine is worth the price. But=2C
in
looking at the 150-odd invoices from AC Spruce over 11 years=2C I paid a TO
N of
shipping costs. The moral - try to combine your orders as much as possible.
See
if you can find a local or area source for the few things you may have
overlooked.
I thought I'd be able to build the airplane in 2-3 years. If I'd worked on
it at least 5 days a week=2C for 2-3 hours=2C I think I would have finished
in that
time. But there are at least 4 years in which nothing was done=2C and somet
imes
weeks when I did no actual work on it. But often during those 'times off'
=2C I was
thinking about a problem and often would solve them in my head without havi
ng to
go down blind alleys and then redo things. I even remember once dreaming ab
out a
problem and coming to a solution in the dream.
Other than some changes necessitated by the realities of flying in today's
world=2C like seatbelts=2C shoulder harnesses=2C brakes and tailwheels=2C I
stuck with
the plans. I did appropriate Mike Cuy's fuselage tank idea=2C and Jack Phil
lips's
tailwheel steering plan. But most everything else is pure Bernard Pietenpol
.
I'm already missing having the plane in the workshop and thinking and
planning what's next. There are a few things left to do before the airworth
iness
inspection and that will keep me busy for the next weeks. It is true that t
he
journey is as important=2C or more so=2C than the end result. I have thorou
ghly
enjoyed the trip.
I look forward to seeing many of you at Brodhead.
Matt Paxton
NX629ML
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | A few thoughts as the project winds up |
Congratulations, Matt! Looks very nice
If Gene Rambo gets his Pietenpol finished this spring we should have quite a
contingent flying up from Virginia to Brodhead.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Raleigh, NC but based at Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Woodflier(at)aol.com
Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2011 8:31 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: A few thoughts as the project winds up
Now that I'm really about finished with Mike Lima, I thought I'd bore you
all with a few random thoughts. Years ago, I wrote some columns for AvWeb on
building the Piet. and in one of those, written in 2002, I opined that I
thought I might be able to keep the cost at about $8000. I wish I'd been
able to keep it at twice that! Of course, a lot of stuff increased in price
from 2002 to 2011, but there are some things I should have done to keep
costs down.
I just had to add up all the invoices to pay the Commonwealth of Virginia
"sales tax" on the airplane. All in all, I have a bit over $22,000 in it.
$8400 is in the engine, which I had overhauled by Bob Barrows, the designer
of the Bearhawk and my Technical Counselor. He's tops and I have great
confidence in his work. I think the money put into the engine is worth the
price. But, in looking at the 150-odd invoices from AC Spruce over 11 years,
I paid a TON of shipping costs. The moral - try to combine your orders as
much as possible. See if you can find a local or area source for the few
things you may have overlooked.
I thought I'd be able to build the airplane in 2-3 years. If I'd worked on
it at least 5 days a week, for 2-3 hours, I think I would have finished in
that time. But there are at least 4 years in which nothing was done, and
sometimes weeks when I did no actual work on it. But often during those
'times off', I was thinking about a problem and often would solve them in my
head without having to go down blind alleys and then redo things. I even
remember once dreaming about a problem and coming to a solution in the
dream.
Other than some changes necessitated by the realities of flying in today's
world, like seatbelts, shoulder harnesses, brakes and tailwheels, I stuck
with the plans. I did appropriate Mike Cuy's fuselage tank idea, and Jack
Phillips's tailwheel steering plan. But most everything else is pure Bernard
Pietenpol.
I'm already missing having the plane in the workshop and thinking and
planning what's next. There are a few things left to do before the
airworthiness inspection and that will keep me busy for the next weeks. It
is true that the journey is as important, or more so, than the end result. I
have thoroughly enjoyed the trip.
I look forward to seeing many of you at Brodhead.
Matt Paxton
NX629ML
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: A few thoughts as the project winds up |
| From: | helspersew(at)aol.com |
I just had to add up all the invoices to pay the Commonwealth of Virginia "
sales tax" on the airplane
What's this all about? I have heard of this kind of thing happening in IL.
when kit panes such as RV's were registered, but so far I have not been con
tacted by anyone saying I owe sales tax. I think my standard line is going
to be "I bought everything locally at Lowes, Home Depot and Ace, and have a
lready paid the sales tax".
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> |
Hey Mat, congratulations on finishing!!
You've accomplished something very few have, and I'm sure the next chapters
will be glorious.
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RBush96589(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: first flight hour of 2011 |
It was also a beautiful day here in west TN,temps right around 60 degrees,I
went to the hangar to make sure no mice or squirrels had built nests in
any part of the piet when my 8 year old grandson called and wanted to fly. so
we spent close to 3 hours in the air just hopping around to some
neighboring airports and friends strips .great way to spend a January day.
Randy Bush
NX294RB
do not archive
{ Miss Le Bec }
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: first flight hour of 2011 |
| From: | John Kuhfahl <kuhlcouper(at)gmail.com> |
I am so excited about Piets! Oscar flies his Piet beautifully! Like someone
said, I am enjoying the journey working on it as well. Thank you Osacr and
group for all the help so far. Attached are a few pictures of my journey.
My J3 landing gear has an unwanted hole in it--oh boy...John Kuhfahl
On Sat, Jan 29, 2011 at 7:38 PM, Oscar Zuniga wrote:
>
>
> Between this weekend and one two weeks ago, I logged my first flight hour
> of 2011 in Scout. The flight two weeks ago was a scant two-tenths... I
> went up to test some adjustments we'd made in the engine thrustline
> (good outcome!) but it was quite cold and we had had rain the day before
> so things were still messy. I had to keep carb heat on quite a bit to
> get full power, so conditions were ripe for carb ice and I didn't need to
> be up flying anyway.
>
> Today I put eight tenths on, giving rides to my daughter and her boyfriend.
> John Kuhfahl came out to watch and also helped with prop starting. The
> first flight, with boyfriend Ryan aboard, was surely very close to max
> gross on the airplane and the performance reflected that. We had a high
> overcast and a bit of humidity in the air, and I again needed carb heat
> more than usual so I tried to be wary. Flying with my daughter in the
> front cockpit, about half the passenger weight of Ryan, the airplane was
> back to its usual spriteliness but the engine still wanted carb heat a
> lot. I'm going to have to check the jetting and all the intake spider
> clamps, since the engine seems to be running lean and that's not a good
> thing.
>
> A good time was had by all, decent landings were made by the pilot, and
> we all went home smiling and talking about the afternoon so I guess the
> airplane worked its magic once again. I was pleasantly surprised for a few
> moments while flying my daughter, when I needed to adjust my shoulder
> harness and had to unbuckle both it and the lap belt to mess with them.
> For
> perhaps 10-15 seconds, my hands were off the stick and the airplane not
> only
> stayed mostly straight and level, it actually felt like it would have kept
> doing so if not for the thermals. It's never been this stable before so
> I'm
> glad we made the tweaks that we did: a bit of vertical stabilizer offset,
> some engine down-thrust and offset to the right, and just a tad of aileron
> balance adjustment between starboard and port. It's getting better and
> better.
>
> Pietenpoling in south Texas in
> January. Too chilly aloft for just shirt sleeves, but too warm on the
> ground for jackets or gloves. Wish you were here! ;o)
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
> San Antonio, TX
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
>
--
John Kuhfahl, Lt Col USAF (Ret),
PresIident, KUHLCOUPER LLC
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: A few thoughts as the project winds up |
| From: | "pineymb" <airltd(at)mts.net> |
Very nice airplane Matt and congrats on persevering to completion. My project has
a lot of similarities to yours which I am hoping to complete in the next year
or so and I know what you are saying about cost run overs.
Curious as to engine size and prop selection. You can contact me offline if you
wish.
--------
Adrian M
Winnipeg, MB
Canada
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328980#328980
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00365_627.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: first flight hour of 2011 |
| From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
No flying for me, but a lot of activity at the airport during an unseasonal mid-70s
day yesterday. Had the hangar doors open and worked on my project for several
hours. Today is a different story... cold and windy with a winter storm
warning posted for the next several days. Gotta take em when you can get em
I guess.
I hope this next storm blows through quickly! Come on spring!
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328982#328982
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JOSEPH SWITHIN <joeswithin(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | soaking the cap strips |
Chuck,
When you soak the cap strips did you start out with warm or hot water? I have
read so many things, I was thinking if I just let them soak over-night in tap
water that would suffice. I was going to take some left over six inch pvc pipe,
stand it upright, and fill with water about three feet up. Does the bottom strip
need to be bent at all?
Thanks for the advice.
Joe Swithin
Morris, IL just getting started. doing ribs first.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: soaking the cap strips |
| From: | "Kringle" <Mrkringles(at)msn.com> |
It's just as simple as that. I use cold tap water in piece of PVC and do both
the top and bottom. Works great.
--------
John
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328985#328985
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gboothe5" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | soaking the cap strips |
Joe,
I only soaked the bottom 16" or so and it has worked fine..course I only
have 24 ribs done.
Gary Boothe
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of JOSEPH
SWITHIN
Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2011 7:56 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: soaking the cap strips
Chuck,
When you soak the cap strips did you start out with warm or hot water? I
have read so many things, I was thinking if I just let them soak over-night
in tap water that would suffice. I was going to take some left over six inch
pvc pipe, stand it upright, and fill with water about three feet up. Does
the bottom strip need to be bent at all?
Thanks for the advice.
Joe Swithin
Morris, IL just getting started. doing ribs first.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> |
| Subject: | Re: soaking the cap strips |
This is from Chuck Campbell, Soak them in cold water. I put a 2-inch
pvc pipe at about 45-degree angle so I could get the capstrip in and the
ceiling would not get in the way. The lower cap strip does not need to
be prebent. I soaked the top strip over night and then put it in the
prebending jig (a 2 X 8 board cut so that the bend would be greater than
the final bend) overnight. Hope this helps.
----- Original Message -----
From: JOSEPH SWITHIN
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2011 10:56 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: soaking the cap strips
Chuck,
When you soak the cap strips did you start out with warm or hot water?
I have read so many things, I was thinking if I just let them soak
over-night in tap water that would suffice. I was going to take some
left over six inch pvc pipe, stand it upright, and fill with water about
three feet up. Does the bottom strip need to be bent at all?
Thanks for the advice.
Joe Swithin
Morris, IL just getting started. doing ribs first.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> |
| Subject: | Re: soaking the cap strips |
#3. I'll get it right in a while! That website is
karetaker(at)karetakeraero.com
----- Original Message -----
From: JOSEPH SWITHIN
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2011 10:56 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: soaking the cap strips
Chuck,
When you soak the cap strips did you start out with warm or hot water?
I have read so many things, I was thinking if I just let them soak
over-night in tap water that would suffice. I was going to take some
left over six inch pvc pipe, stand it upright, and fill with water about
three feet up. Does the bottom strip need to be bent at all?
Thanks for the advice.
Joe Swithin
Morris, IL just getting started. doing ribs first.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CJ Borsuk <cjborsuk(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: soaking the cap strips |
I did it just as Chuck C. & Gary described.
Thanks,
Chuck
>
>
> Chuck,
> When you soak the cap strips did you start out with warm or hot water? I h
ave read so many things, I was thinking if I just let them soak over-night i
n tap water that would suffice. I was going to take some left over six inch p
vc pipe, stand it upright, and fill with water about three feet up. Does the
bottom strip need to be bent at all?
> Thanks for the advice.
> Joe Swithin
> Morris, IL just getting started. doing ribs first.
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Has anyone done a Piet with a CAM 100 engine? |
| From: | "PShipman" <perrytshipman(at)gmail.com> |
As anyone built a CAM 100 Pietenpol? Seems like a good potential choice at 267
lbs including radiator and the high trust line.
Thoughts anyone?
--------
Perry Shipman
Lakeside, CA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329021#329021
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Has anyone done a Piet with a CAM 100 engine? |
My only thought is, "What's a CAM 100?"
----- Original Message -----
From: "PShipman" <perrytshipman(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2011 6:12 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Has anyone done a Piet with a CAM 100 engine?
>
> As anyone built a CAM 100 Pietenpol? Seems like a good potential choice
> at 267 lbs including radiator and the high trust line.
>
> Thoughts anyone?
>
> --------
> Perry Shipman
> Lakeside, CA
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329021#329021
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Has anyone done a Piet with a CAM 100 engine? |
| From: | "dgaldrich" <dgaldrich(at)embarqmail.com> |
For historical information, I defer to those with more seniority in the Pietenpol
movement but if you are considering late model 4 cylinder car engine conversions,
there are several choices.
Jan Eggenfelner has been doing a truly fine job of converting Subaru engines for
aircraft use and his firewall forward packages for RV's is extremely well engineered
and executed. Last year at Oshkosh, he was showing similar package based
on the Honda Fit engine. Unlike a number of other people that have tried
to do auto engine adaptations (several Mazda rotary and Subaru proponents, now
vanished, come to mind), Jan has stayed with it and actually series produced
some quality products. The engine information is at vikingaircraftengines.com
I have no personal knowledge of the CAM 100 engine but have seen them for a relatively
long period of time at Oshkosh so they are probably in the game for the
long haul also. Might be a worthy FWF package.
Dave
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329026#329026
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Has anyone done a Piet with a CAM 100 engine? |
Think I'll stick with the Corvair that I've been reading up on for the last
2 years or so -- cracked cranks notwithstanding.
----- Original Message -----
From: "dgaldrich" <dgaldrich(at)embarqmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2011 7:47 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Has anyone done a Piet with a CAM 100 engine?
>
>
> For historical information, I defer to those with more seniority in the
> Pietenpol movement but if you are considering late model 4 cylinder car
> engine conversions, there are several choices.
>
> Jan Eggenfelner has been doing a truly fine job of converting Subaru
> engines for aircraft use and his firewall forward packages for RV's is
> extremely well engineered and executed. Last year at Oshkosh, he was
> showing similar package based on the Honda Fit engine. Unlike a number of
> other people that have tried to do auto engine adaptations (several Mazda
> rotary and Subaru proponents, now vanished, come to mind), Jan has stayed
> with it and actually series produced some quality products. The engine
> information is at vikingaircraftengines.com
>
> I have no personal knowledge of the CAM 100 engine but have seen them for
> a relatively long period of time at Oshkosh so they are probably in the
> game for the long haul also. Might be a worthy FWF package.
>
> Dave
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329026#329026
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Has anyone done a Piet with a CAM 100 engine? |
| From: | "moondogman" <jbciii5656(at)yahoo.com> |
Isn't the CAM 100 certificated to be a replacement for the O-200 in Cessna 150
and such aircraft?...If so, why not use it (if cost is not prohibitive).
--------
Low & Slow is My Way!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329028#329028
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Silvius" <silvius(at)gwi.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Has anyone done a Piet with a CAM 100 engine? |
I belive it it a converted Honda Prelude engine
http://www.firewall.ca/index.html
Michael in Maine
----- Original Message -----
From: "moondogman" <jbciii5656(at)yahoo.com>
>
> Isn't the CAM 100 certificated to be a replacement for the O-200 in Cessna
150 and such aircraft?...If so, why not use it (if cost is not prohibitive).
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Has anyone done a Piet with a CAM 100 engine? |
| From: | "PShipman" <perrytshipman(at)gmail.com> |
I believe the Honda Prelude engine (single cam) is correct.
The Viking mentioned above is an interesting choice but is not for the financially
faint of heart. Dimensionally it is about five inches shorter than the CAM
100 but makes up for it by being a 4 inches wider package.
And, at $13,000 and twice the cost of the CAM package, the Rotec R2800 would seem
a very attractive alternative.
As mentioned, the CAM folks have been around since the early 90's and have both
a 100 and 120 hp package at a very reasonable price.
Still ... a Ford looks more original, eh?
--------
Perry Shipman
Lakeside, CA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329033#329033
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kip and Beth Gardner <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Has anyone done a Piet with a CAM 100 engine? |
It's a 100 hp Honda conversion, engine originally from a Civic or
Accord, I believe. I think the company is based somewhere out West, I
did not know they were still in business.
Kip Gardner
On Jan 30, 2011, at 7:28 PM, Charles Campbell wrote:
> >
>
> My only thought is, "What's a CAM 100?"
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "PShipman"
>
> To:
> Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2011 6:12 PM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Has anyone done a Piet with a CAM 100 engine?
>
>
>> >
>>
>> As anyone built a CAM 100 Pietenpol? Seems like a good potential
>> choice at 267 lbs including radiator and the high trust line.
>>
>> Thoughts anyone?
>>
>> --------
>> Perry Shipman
>> Lakeside, CA
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329021#329021
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Clif Dawson" <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Has anyone done a Piet with a CAM 100 engine? |
Well, if you go to the website Micheal provided you
will see that the company is alive and well and has
changed hands due to the original two guys passing
away. They started out in Sidney, BC where I grew up
and now I'm not sure exactly what's happening except
that everything seems to be operated out of Ontario
now.
Remember Jim Malley, His plane has a 98 ci Fiesta
in it. It appears in Mikes video and is on the cover of
Kitplanes, July 1992. This engine is a little smaller
at 91 ci.
Clif
I think the company is based somewhere out West, I
> did not know they were still in business.
>
> Kip Gardner
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "MPB" <mike(at)seatec.us> |
I know I am leaving myself wide open to a bunch of "well it really depends..."
type of responses, but it is still worth asking.
What is the Total Build Cost?
I know this # is all over the place in kit builds so I can only imagine for a scratch
built project. When I bought the plans I heard a lot of $10,000 talk (from
other sources). I figured that was a bit optimistic, but figured maybe $15,000
was realistic. Now I am hearing #'s closer to 25k for the build. This
wouldn't necessarily kill the project, but it may be a cause for reconsideration.
I have a lot of tools and access to even more so that should not be a problem.
This is what I am planning on building...
-steel tube fuselage (looks to be a bit more expensive, but not much)
-0200 or C85 (serviceable, but maybe not a lot of life before TBO left)
-spruce for the wood (ACS sourced)
I appreciate anyone's input. You can contact me off the forum too if you would
rather.
Thanks,
Mike
Prunedale, CA
mike(at)seatec.us
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329073#329073
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Pietenpol Air Camper for sale in Michigan |
| From: | "cybrdweeb" <cybrdweeb(at)aol.com> |
Hello- I just bought a Pietenpol at an estate auction and it is now listed on ebay.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250766510738&viewitem=&sspagename=STRK%3AMESELX%3AIT
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329074#329074
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Has anyone done a Piet with a CAM 100 engine? |
| From: | "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca> |
Hmmm....
So the CAM100 pricing starts at $8000. The Eggenfelner Honda is $13000. A Corvair
conversion with the fifth bearing is typically going to run close to $8000.
I thought the main reason builders were looking into auto conversions was to lower
costs.
If you NEED 100HP (which most Pietenpol owners actually don't), why not just shop
around for a recently overhauled O-200 or O-235? If you're willing to part
with $8000, you'll be able to find one - guaranteed. Plus, you'll end up with
an airplane that looks like an old airplane AND sounds like an old airplane.
In my opinion, something just isn't right about the sight of a Pietenpol taking
off with an engine screaming at 6000 RPM. I guess it's okay if you plug your
ears.
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329075#329075
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
I have spent about $7000 airframe/instruments (latex paint) and $8000
engine/prop/fwf (including a Weseman 5th bearing on my crank snappin
corvair).
Still a very inexpensive 2 place airplane.
rick
On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 8:01 AM, MPB wrote:
>
> I know I am leaving myself wide open to a bunch of "well it really
> depends..." type of responses, but it is still worth asking.
>
> What is the Total Build Cost?
>
> I know this # is all over the place in kit builds so I can only imagine for
> a scratch built project. When I bought the plans I heard a lot of $10,000
> talk (from other sources). I figured that was a bit optimistic, but figured
> maybe $15,000 was realistic. Now I am hearing #'s closer to 25k for the
> build. This wouldn't necessarily kill the project, but it may be a cause
> for reconsideration. I have a lot of tools and access to even more so that
> should not be a problem. This is what I am planning on building...
>
> -steel tube fuselage (looks to be a bit more expensive, but not much)
> -spruce for the wood (ACS sourced)
>
> I appreciate anyone's input. You can contact me off the forum too if you
> would rather.
>
>
> Thanks,
> Mike
> Prunedale, CA
> mike(at)seatec.us
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329073#329073
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gboothe5(at)comcast.net |
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b3dlcnMsIHRoYXQgc21lbGwgYmFkIg0KDQo
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Has anyone done a Piet with a CAM 100 engine? |
| From: | Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
Some of us just like doing experimental with a capitol 'E'.
rick
On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 8:45 AM, Bill Church wrote:
> billspiet(at)sympatico.ca>
>
> Hmmm....
> So the CAM100 pricing starts at $8000. The Eggenfelner Honda is $13000. A
> Corvair conversion with the fifth bearing is typically going to run close to
> $8000.
> I thought the main reason builders were looking into auto conversions was
> to lower costs.
> If you NEED 100HP (which most Pietenpol owners actually don't), why not
> just shop around for a recently overhauled O-200 or O-235? If you're willing
> to part with $8000, you'll be able to find one - guaranteed. Plus, you'll
> end up with an airplane that looks like an old airplane AND sounds like an
> old airplane.
> In my opinion, something just isn't right about the sight of a Pietenpol
> taking off with an engine screaming at 6000 RPM. I guess it's okay if you
> plug your ears.
>
> Bill C.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329075#329075
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kenneth Bickers <bickers.ken(at)gmail.com> |
All,
I know I'm foregoing bragging rights when the project is finally completed,
and
maybe starting an argument in the near term, but I steadfastly refuse to
count hours
or track total costs. I'm having fun building. Why else do it?
The costs are modest on a weekly or montly basis. They fit within our
household budget.
So I don't particularly care what the grand total is or will be. I'm like
that with my kids, too.
I figure I know more or less what they are costing weekly or monthly. I'd
have a heart attack if
I knew what they've cost in total.
Others may want to know or need to know. But for me, the Pietenpol is
cheap, fun, and
a wonderful learning experience. It is also my analog to a Jethro Gibbs
boat project
(a reference to the NCIS series). It is my diversion from stresses of work
and the real world.
Cheers, Ken
On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 9:32 AM, wrote:
> Mike,
>
> I use a program to track expense and build time, and believe both to be
> fairly accurate. Currently I am at about $8,200 for airframe, with the
> expense left for fabric and paint...should be under $10,000. Engine is
> another $3,000 + an upcoming expense for 5th bearing. No radios. Total
> should be under $15,000.
>
> Gary Boothe
>
> Sent on the Sprint=AE Now Network from my BlackBerry=AE
> ------------------------------
> *From: *Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
> *Sender: *owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> *Date: *Mon, 31 Jan 2011 09:07:44 -0700
> *To: *
> *ReplyTo: *pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject: *Re: Pietenpol-List: Build Cost
>
> I have spent about $7000- airframe/instruments (latex paint) and $800
0
> en= gine/prop/fwf (including a Weseman 5th bearing on my crank snappin
> corvair)= .
>
>
> Still a very inexpensive 2 place airplane.
>
> rick
>
> On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 8:01 AM, MPB wrote:
>
>
> I know I am leaving myself wide open to a bunch of "well it really dep
> ends..." type of responses, but it is still worth asking.
>
>
> What is the Total Build Cost?
>
> I know this # is all over the place in kit builds so I can only imagine
> for= a scratch built project. -When I bought the plans I heard a lo
t of
> $10,0= 00 talk (from other sources). -I figured that was a bit opti
mistic,
> but f= igured maybe $15,000 was realistic. -Now I am hearing #'s cl
oser to
> 2= 5k for the build. -This wouldn't necessarily kill the project, b
ut it
> may be a cause for reconsideration. -I have a lot of tools and access
to
> even more so that should not be a problem. -This is what I am plannin
g o
> n building...
>
>
> -steel tube fuselage (looks to be a bit more expensive, but not much)
> -spruce for the wood (ACS sourced)
>
> I appreciate anyone's input. -You can contact me off the forum too if
> you would rather.
>
>
> Thanks,
> Mike
> Prunedale, CA
> mike(at)seatec.us
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=3D329073#329073<= /a>
>
>
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> st" target=3D"_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> http://forums.matronics.com
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> le, List Admin.
> =3D"_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
>
> --
> Rick Holland
> Castle = Rock, Colorado
>
> "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell= bad"
>
> *
>
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dangerous Dave" <dsornbor(at)aol.com> |
Mike,I am building mine,close to done and 99.9% of what I need,with a Lycoming
O 235 and all FAA-PMA certified parts and am right around 25,000.I rebuilt the
235 and also bought a new Sensenich aluminum prop.Didn't spare any expense and
there about 2000.00 worth of tools and probably 1500 worth of stuff I didn't
use so in reality 21500 give or take.Full panel,no radios,tundra tires,ELT etc.dave
--------
Covering Piet
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329087#329087
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> |
I haven't finished yet so am really figuring on estimated costs. I think I
figured once that, discounting the FWFD, the cost in materials for the
airframe would run close to $4500. I think the big thing that would make
the difference is whether you use sitka spruce or a locally available wood
like poplar or douglas fir. OK you guys who have finished, am I pretty
close?
----- Original Message -----
From: "MPB" <mike(at)seatec.us>
Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 10:01 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Build Cost
>
> I know I am leaving myself wide open to a bunch of "well it really
> depends..." type of responses, but it is still worth asking.
>
> What is the Total Build Cost?
>
> I know this # is all over the place in kit builds so I can only imagine
> for a scratch built project. When I bought the plans I heard a lot of
> $10,000 talk (from other sources). I figured that was a bit optimistic,
> but figured maybe $15,000 was realistic. Now I am hearing #'s closer to
> 25k for the build. This wouldn't necessarily kill the project, but it may
> be a cause for reconsideration. I have a lot of tools and access to even
> more so that should not be a problem. This is what I am planning on
> building...
>
> -steel tube fuselage (looks to be a bit more expensive, but not much)
> -spruce for the wood (ACS sourced)
>
> I appreciate anyone's input. You can contact me off the forum too if you
> would rather.
>
>
> Thanks,
> Mike
> Prunedale, CA
> mike(at)seatec.us
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329073#329073
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
I believe that $15,000 to be a good estimate. IF...you have the tools/skill/time
to do your own work. Paying someone/place to do welding, cutting, painting,
etc. will drive the price up. Sounds like you have the tools or have access to
them, so I assume you have the skills as well. I bet you can build for right
around that $15,000 number.
Keep us posted on your decision!
Michael Perez
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Barry Davis" <bed(at)mindspring.com> |
On building 6 Big Piets, we each put $200 per month into a joint bank
account. We had one guy drop out just before we started covering, but we
covered and painted his plane anyway, so the cost will be the same. (we did
not draw a serial number till we started painting, so the 6 were identical
up to this point and we did not know which one would be whose) We have steel
fuselages and tail feathers with wood wings. We used the WW corvair
conversion with MA3spa carbs and Culver props. We completed and flew the 5
Big Piets in 6 years and 6 months from start to finish. We are around $16K
for each plane. We were able to buy in bulk and Aircraft Spruce gave us deep
discounts on all our orders, on the down side, A/S East is only 30 miles
away from us, so we had to pay Sales Tax on most our orders. We did put a
lot of fancy stuff (heavy) in the planes so we probably spent a lot more
than a very basic Piet. Oh yeah, we used the $tewart $ystem for paint ;-)
Barry Davis
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of MPB
Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 10:01 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Build Cost
I know I am leaving myself wide open to a bunch of "well it really
depends..." type of responses, but it is still worth asking.
What is the Total Build Cost?
I know this # is all over the place in kit builds so I can only imagine for
a scratch built project. When I bought the plans I heard a lot of $10,000
talk (from other sources). I figured that was a bit optimistic, but figured
maybe $15,000 was realistic. Now I am hearing #'s closer to 25k for the
build. This wouldn't necessarily kill the project, but it may be a cause
for reconsideration. I have a lot of tools and access to even more so that
should not be a problem. This is what I am planning on building...
or C85 (serviceable, but maybe not a lot of life before TBO left) -spruce
for the wood (ACS sourced)
I appreciate anyone's input. You can contact me off the forum too if you
would rather.
Thanks,
Mike
Prunedale, CA
mike(at)seatec.us
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329073#329073
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
You're right, Mike. It depends. But not much.
Mine is a long fuselage, straight axle with wire wheels, A65 Continental,
with comm radio, mode C transponder and intercom. Stits Polyfiber fabric
with polyurethane paint. Aircraft grade materials throughout. Total cost -
just under $15,000, of which the engine was $7500 (which included buying the
core, new Millenium cylinders, crankcase overhauled by Divco, crankshaft and
connecting rods overhauled by Aircraft Specialties and new Slick magnetos).
Counteracting some of the expensive stuff was a lot of scrounging and buying
stuff on ebay. For example, I have a locking Bendix ignition switch
(normally about $50 from AS&S) that I got for $1.00 on ebay. Tailwheel was
$20 on ebay. Radio I got for $100 from a local avionics shop, transponder
(again ebay) for $300. Turn & Bank I bought at OSH for $22 (it works).
Cleveland brakes, $100 on ebay. Instruments like airspeed and altimeter
were gifts (people would ask what I wanted for Christmas so I told them to
all go in together and get me an altimeter).
I made a long list of parts and instruments I was going to need and part of
my morning routine became looking through ebay's aviation parts category,
just looking at the auctions that would end that day. If I saw something I
needed at a good price, I bid on it. Bought a lot of good stuff that way,
and only a few items that were junk.
Looking at the responses you've gotten, it looks like $15K is about average.
Unfortunately, when you go to sell your Pietenpol, it will bring about $15K.
So your time is worth nothing. But it sure is fun.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Raleigh, NC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of MPB
Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 10:01 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Build Cost
I know I am leaving myself wide open to a bunch of "well it really
depends..." type of responses, but it is still worth asking.
What is the Total Build Cost?
I know this # is all over the place in kit builds so I can only imagine for
a scratch built project. When I bought the plans I heard a lot of $10,000
talk (from other sources). I figured that was a bit optimistic, but figured
maybe $15,000 was realistic. Now I am hearing #'s closer to 25k for the
build. This wouldn't necessarily kill the project, but it may be a cause
for reconsideration. I have a lot of tools and access to even more so that
should not be a problem. This is what I am planning on building...
-steel tube fuselage (looks to be a bit more expensive, but not much)
-0200 or C85 (serviceable, but maybe not a lot of life before TBO left)
-spruce for the wood (ACS sourced)
I appreciate anyone's input. You can contact me off the forum too if you
would rather.
Thanks,
Mike
Prunedale, CA
mike(at)seatec.us
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329073#329073
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Ernest Kestler paint job?? |
Here a couple pics of my Jungmeister project, Ernest Kestler paint job migh
t fit it perfectly, I just have to watch out for you Waldo's and Axle's.
-
Shad=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "MPB" <mike(at)seatec.us> |
I am good with the 15k dollar value with 15k invested. I am doing it for the enjoyment
of the project as both Jack and Ken suggested. I was just hoping that
I wouldn't have 25k invested with a 15k dollar value...not that there is anything
wrong with those doing that. If you have the money to spend building it
the way you want I say go go for it. I am kind of frugal guy though...
I have a shop full of old AN hardware misc parts and even some old instruments
that can help keep the build costs down. I also plan on doing everything myself
(or my building partner) from welding to paint to engine rebuild. (we'll see
how the engine rebuild goes...) Thanks for all the feedback. The couple questions
I have asked here have brought back a wealth of practical knowledge that
encourages new builders and pilots. I am a 30 year old inactive pilot looking
to get back into it and my building buddy is a 29 year old aspiring pilot.
A good community like this one is good for aviations future. Keep it up!
Thanks,
Mike
Prunedale, CA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329108#329108
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Barry Davis" <bed(at)mindspring.com> |
Mike
I have to Agree with Jack, it's all free labor, but what a labor of love. I
would not take anything for the experience of building these airplanes with
the guys. We were all friends before the project, but now 5 of us are
"family"
Barry Davis
NX973BP
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack
Phillips
Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 2:36 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Build Cost
-->
You're right, Mike. It depends. But not much.
Mine is a long fuselage, straight axle with wire wheels, A65 Continental,
with comm radio, mode C transponder and intercom. Stits Polyfiber fabric
with polyurethane paint. Aircraft grade materials throughout. Total cost -
just under $15,000, of which the engine was $7500 (which included buying the
core, new Millenium cylinders, crankcase overhauled by Divco, crankshaft and
connecting rods overhauled by Aircraft Specialties and new Slick magnetos).
Counteracting some of the expensive stuff was a lot of scrounging and buying
stuff on ebay. For example, I have a locking Bendix ignition switch
(normally about $50 from AS&S) that I got for $1.00 on ebay. Tailwheel was
$20 on ebay. Radio I got for $100 from a local avionics shop, transponder
(again ebay) for $300. Turn & Bank I bought at OSH for $22 (it works).
Cleveland brakes, $100 on ebay. Instruments like airspeed and altimeter
were gifts (people would ask what I wanted for Christmas so I told them to
all go in together and get me an altimeter).
I made a long list of parts and instruments I was going to need and part of
my morning routine became looking through ebay's aviation parts category,
just looking at the auctions that would end that day. If I saw something I
needed at a good price, I bid on it. Bought a lot of good stuff that way,
and only a few items that were junk.
Looking at the responses you've gotten, it looks like $15K is about average.
Unfortunately, when you go to sell your Pietenpol, it will bring about $15K.
So your time is worth nothing. But it sure is fun.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Raleigh, NC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of MPB
Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 10:01 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Build Cost
I know I am leaving myself wide open to a bunch of "well it really
depends..." type of responses, but it is still worth asking.
What is the Total Build Cost?
I know this # is all over the place in kit builds so I can only imagine for
a scratch built project. When I bought the plans I heard a lot of $10,000
talk (from other sources). I figured that was a bit optimistic, but figured
maybe $15,000 was realistic. Now I am hearing #'s closer to 25k for the
build. This wouldn't necessarily kill the project, but it may be a cause
for reconsideration. I have a lot of tools and access to even more so that
should not be a problem. This is what I am planning on building...
or C85 (serviceable, but maybe not a lot of life before TBO left) -spruce
for the wood (ACS sourced)
I appreciate anyone's input. You can contact me off the forum too if you
would rather.
Thanks,
Mike
Prunedale, CA
mike(at)seatec.us
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329073#329073
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Ernest Kestler paint job?? |
| From: | "Jerry Dotson" <jdotson(at)centurylink.net> |
Shad are you gonna use a round engine? An old Kinner with the little L shape
exhaust stacks would sound good on it.
--------
Jerry Dotson
59 Daniel Johnson Rd
Baker, FL 32531
Started building NX510JD July, 2009
wing, tailfeathers done, fuselage rolling
using Lycoming O-235
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329109#329109
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Ernest Kestler paint job?? |
No, I will be putt'in a Lyc 0-235, it won't be a comfortable ride, even les
s so than an aircamper, But if I get her done, Dad can fly the piet to Brod
head, and I'll fly the Jungster.- I will probably be 40 mph or so faster,
so I can zoom ahead and get out and stretch between fuel stops.- I just
hope no one takes my wheel nuts off before I take off.
-
Shad
--- On Mon, 1/31/11, Jerry Dotson wrote:
From: Jerry Dotson <jdotson(at)centurylink.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Ernest Kestler paint job??
Date: Monday, January 31, 2011, 3:44 PM
et>
Shad are you gonna use a round engine? An old Kinner with the little L shap
e
exhaust stacks would sound good on it.
--------
Jerry Dotson
59 Daniel Johnson Rd
Baker, FL 32531
Started building- NX510JD- July, 2009
wing, tailfeathers done, fuselage rolling
using Lycoming O-235
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329109#329109
le, List Admin.
=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Ernest Kestler paint job?? |
Cool, Shad! I had no idea you were restoring a Jungmeister. Where did
you
get it?
I spent some time in the early =9180=92s helping restore a B=FCcker
Jungmann.
Strange ribstitching those Germans did=85
Jack Phillips
NX899JP =93Icarus Plummet=94
Raleigh, NC
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of shad
bell
Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 2:55 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Ernest Kestler paint job??
Here a couple pics of my Jungmeister project, Ernest Kestler paint job
might
fit it perfectly, I just have to watch out for you Waldo's and Axle's.
Shad
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Ernest Kestler paint job?? |
Actually Jack it is a replica, all wood Jungster 1.=C2- It is a 8/10 scal
e "kinda look alike" design from the 60's.=C2- They used to advertise the
plans in the old 60's-70's aviation magazines.=C2- Google search "Jungst
er 1" and you can find many nice examples that were built through the years
.=C2- Its about the size of an eaa bipe, or smith miniplane, +9, -6g's.
=C2-
Shad
--- On Mon, 1/31/11, Jack Phillips wrote:
From: Jack Phillips <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Ernest Kestler paint job??
Date: Monday, January 31, 2011, 5:07 PM
Cool, Shad!=C2- I had no idea you were restoring a Jungmeister.=C2- Whe
re did you get it?
=C2-
I spent some time in the early =9880=99s helping restore a B=C3
=BCcker Jungmann.=C2- Strange ribstitching those Germans did
=C2-
Jack Phillips
NX899JP=C2- =9CIcarus Plummet=9D
Raleigh, NC
=C2-
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-lis
t-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of shad bell
Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 2:55 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Ernest Kestler paint job??
=C2-
Here a couple pics of my Jungmeister project, Ernest Kestler paint job migh
t fit it perfectly, I just have to watch out for you Waldo's and Axle's.
=C2-
Shad
=C2-
=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
Totally agree Ken, I have never tracked hours (reminds me of punching a tim
e
clock back when I was waiting tables in college), and my cost calculations
are very rough. I do know that I am spending about as little as possible to
have a viable 2 place airplane that can get off of a 7000 ft altitude
runway.
rick
On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 10:07 AM, Kenneth Bickers wr
ote:
> All,
>
> I know I'm foregoing bragging rights when the project is finally complete
d,
> and
> maybe starting an argument in the near term, but I steadfastly refuse to
> count hours
> or track total costs. I'm having fun building. Why else do it?
>
> The costs are modest on a weekly or montly basis. They fit within our
> household budget.
> So I don't particularly care what the grand total is or will be. I'm lik
e
> that with my kids, too.
> I figure I know more or less what they are costing weekly or monthly. I'
d
> have a heart attack if
> I knew what they've cost in total.
>
> Others may want to know or need to know. But for me, the Pietenpol is
> cheap, fun, and
> a wonderful learning experience. It is also my analog to a Jethro Gibbs
> boat project
> (a reference to the NCIS series). It is my diversion from stresses of wor
k
> and the real world.
>
> Cheers, Ken
>
> On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 9:32 AM, wrote:
>
>> Mike,
>>
>> I use a program to track expense and build time, and believe both to be
>> fairly accurate. Currently I am at about $8,200 for airframe, with the
>> expense left for fabric and paint...should be under $10,000. Engine is
>> another $3,000 + an upcoming expense for 5th bearing. No radios. Total
>> should be under $15,000.
>>
>> Gary Boothe
>>
>> Sent on the Sprint=AE Now Network from my BlackBerry=AE
>> ------------------------------
>> *From: *Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
>> *Sender: *owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
>> *Date: *Mon, 31 Jan 2011 09:07:44 -0700
>> *To: *
>> *ReplyTo: *pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>> *Subject: *Re: Pietenpol-List: Build Cost
>>
>> I have spent about $7000- airframe/instruments (latex paint) and $80
00
>> en= gine/prop/fwf (including a Weseman 5th bearing on my crank snappin
>> corvair)= .
>>
>>
>> Still a very inexpensive 2 place airplane.
>>
>> rick
>>
>> On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 8:01 AM, MPB wrote:
>>
>>
>> I know I am leaving myself wide open to a bunch of "well it really dep
>> ends..." type of responses, but it is still worth asking.
>>
>>
>> What is the Total Build Cost?
>>
>> I know this # is all over the place in kit builds so I can only imagine
>> for= a scratch built project. -When I bought the plans I heard a l
ot of
>> $10,0= 00 talk (from other sources). -I figured that was a bit opt
imistic,
>> but f= igured maybe $15,000 was realistic. -Now I am hearing #'s c
loser to
>> 2= 5k for the build. -This wouldn't necessarily kill the project,
but it
>> may be a cause for reconsideration. -I have a lot of tools and acces
s to
>> even more so that should not be a problem. -This is what I am planni
ng o
>> n building...
>>
>>
>> -steel tube fuselage (looks to be a bit more expensive, but not much)
>> -spruce for the wood (ACS sourced)
>>
>> I appreciate anyone's input. -You can contact me off the forum too i
f
>> you would rather.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Mike
>> Prunedale, CA
>> mike(at)seatec.us
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=3D329073#329073<= /a>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>> st" target=3D"_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Lis
t
>> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>> http://forums.matronics.com
>> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>> le, List Admin.
>> =3D"_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Rick Holland
>> Castle = Rock, Colorado
>>
>> "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell= bad"
>>
>> *
>>
>> 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D
>> 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D
>> 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D
>> 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D
>> *
>>
>>
> *
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
> *
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
Pieters,
For what it might be worth.
One night a long time ago I was having a difficult time falling asleep. I
got up and started downstairs when the wife asked where and why. I replied
that I intended to run a tape on all Piet invoices. In her sweet way she
softly said why not let them alone in the drawer and enjoy building. I did as
she suggested and actually finished and flew my Piet and never worried
about cost.
Corky and Isabelle
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | airlion <airlion(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Ernest Kestler paint job?? |
Hi Shad,=C2- aren't you a little old to be pulling those kind of g's? TEE
HEE Gardiner.
--- On Mon, 1/31/11, shad bell wrote:
From: shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Ernest Kestler paint job??
Date: Monday, January 31, 2011, 5:30 PM
Actually Jack it is a replica, all wood Jungster 1.=C2- It is a 8/10 scal
e "kinda look alike" design from the 60's.=C2- They used to advertise the
plans in the old 60's-70's aviation magazines.=C2- Google search "Jungst
er 1" and you can find many nice examples that were built through the years
.=C2- Its about the size of an eaa bipe, or smith miniplane, +9, -6g's.
=0A=C2-=0AShad
--- On Mon, 1/31/11, Jack Phillips wrote:
=0A
From: Jack Phillips <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Ernest Kestler paint job??
Date: Monday, January 31, 2011, 5:07 PM
=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ACool, Shad!=C2- I had no idea you were restoring a J
ungmeister.=C2- Where did you get it?=0A=C2-=0AI spent some time in the
early =9880=99s helping restore a B=C3=BCcker Jungmann.=C2-
Strange ribstitching those Germans did=0A=C2-=0AJack Phillips=0A
NX899JP=C2- =9CIcarus Plummet=9D=0ARaleigh, NC=0A=C2-=0A=0A
=0A=0A=0AFrom: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-piet
enpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of shad bell
Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 2:55 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Ernest Kestler paint job??=0A=C2-=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A
=0A
Here a couple pics of my Jungmeister project, Ernest Kestler paint job migh
t fit it perfectly, I just have to watch out for you Waldo's and Axle's.=0A
=0A=C2-=0A=0AShad=0A=C2-
" rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenp
ol-List
et=_blank>http://forums.matronics.com
llow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | airlion <airlion(at)bellsouth.net> |
I have so many receipts that I don't even want to think about adding them u
p. Plus a lot of the expenses are for replacements for what I $$$$$$ up.-
------ Gardiner - Plane flies great and I enjoy it.
--- On Mon, 1/31/11, Isablcorky(at)aol.com wrote:
From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com <Isablcorky(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Build Cost
Date: Monday, January 31, 2011, 6:13 PM
=0A=0A =0A=0APieters,=0A-=0AFor what it might be worth.=0A-=0AOne night
a long time ago I was having a difficult time falling asleep. I =0Agot up
and started downstairs when the wife asked where and why. I replied that
=0AI intended to run a tape on all Piet invoices. In her sweet way she soft
ly said =0Awhy not let them alone in the drawer and enjoy building. I did a
s she suggested =0Aand actually finished and flew my Piet and never worried
about cost.=0A-=0ACorky and Isabelle=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Ford Engine Modifications |
| From: | "Pieti Lowell" <Lowellcfrank(at)yahoo.com> |
Ron Kelly's tests got me trying his stuff and it worked for me, also the rod tricks,cam
head all ad to big dependable HP.
Douwe, tried some of his ideas also.
The ultimate would be the the " Donivan " D , Looks like a Ford but don't kid yourself,
who wants to fly with a look a like that will scare you . Plus it will
run in excess of $25, 000,00. Al cast block for racing 500 plus at 8,000, detuned
will still run 150 at aircraft RPMs.
Pieti Lowell
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329136#329136
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dick N" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
| Subject: | Turnbuckles barrels |
I just received a flyer from Wag aero. On page 21 there are turnbuckle
barrels listed at $2.00 each. That is a great price for anybone who is
at that stage of construction. For the other parts of the turnbuckle
assy I have seen them at Sun n Fun at B& B and other parts places
cheaper.
Grab while they are there.
Dick N.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Ernest Kestler paint job?? |
| From: | Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
Wow, an 18" wide fuselage, definitely designed before "supersized" meals
were invented. It is beautiful.
rick
On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 3:30 PM, shad bell wrote:
> Actually Jack it is a replica, all wood Jungster 1. It is a 8/10 scale
> "kinda look alike" design from the 60's. They used to advertise the plan
s
> in the old 60's-70's aviation magazines. Google search "Jungster 1" and
you
> can find many nice examples that were built through the years. Its about
> the size of an eaa bipe, or smith miniplane, +9, -6g's.
>
> Shad
>
> --- On *Mon, 1/31/11, Jack Phillips * wrote:
>
>
> From: Jack Phillips <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Ernest Kestler paint job??
>
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Monday, January 31, 2011, 5:07 PM
>
>
> Cool, Shad! I had no idea you were restoring a Jungmeister. Where did
> you get it?
>
>
> I spent some time in the early =9180=92s helping restore a B=FCcker Jungm
ann.
> Strange ribstitching those Germans did=85
>
>
> Jack Phillips
>
> NX899JP =93Icarus Plummet=94
>
> Raleigh, NC
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *shad bell
> *Sent:* Monday, January 31, 2011 2:55 PM
> *To:* pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: Ernest Kestler paint job??
>
>
> Here a couple pics of my Jungmeister project, Ernest Kestler paint job
> might fit it perfectly, I just have to watch out for you Waldo's and Axle
's.
>
>
> Shad
>
>
> *
>
> " rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Piete
npol-List
> et=_blank>http://forums.matronics.com
> llow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> *
>
>
> *
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
> *
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Ernest Kestler paint job?? |
I'll be 33 in March, with 2 boys, the oldest is 2, I feel 10 years older th
an I did 3 years ago.- Now, when and if I get this thing done, I worry ab
out coming home from work here in about 10-15 years and finding the hangar
door up and no Pietenpol, or Jungster in sight.- I guess Dad's Pietenpol
is going to be their primary trainer.- Because it has a Corvair, they wil
l be the best at the "Bob Hoover" dead stick energy management approaches.
- The Jungster will probably be one anvil of a glider so I will have to f
ind a McDonald's Poster Boy to fly in the front pit of the piet to get read
y to fly the Jungster.-
-
Hope to see you all this year at Brodhead this year in the piet, maybe 3 ye
ars in my Jungster,
-
Shad
=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gliderx5(at)comcast.net |
I should be in the $7,000 range for everything, but that is with a lot of scrounging.
Douglas Fir from 2x4s, $150 Corvair rebuilt without nitride crank or 5th
bearing, latex paint, used instruments, etc. It takes a lot longer, but for
me it's all part of the adventure. To each his own. What ever path you choose
for building a Piet will still be a bargain for a 2 place fun flyer.
Malcolm Morrison
http://home.comcast.net/~mmorrison123/
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Build Cost
I know I am leaving myself wide open to a bunch of "well it really depends..."
type of responses, but it is still worth asking.
What is the Total Build Cost?
I know this # is all over the place in kit builds so I can only imagine for a scratch
built project. When I bought the plans I heard a lot of $10,000 talk (from
other sources). I figured that was a bit optimistic, but figured maybe $15,000
was realistic. Now I am hearing #'s closer to 25k for the build. This wouldn't
necessarily kill the project, but it may be a cause for reconsideration.
I have a lot of tools and access to even more so that should not be a problem.
This is what I am planning on building...
-steel tube fuselage (looks to be a bit more expensive, but not much)
-0200 or C85 (serviceable, but maybe not a lot of life before TBO left)
-spruce for the wood (ACS sourced)
I appreciate anyone's input. You can contact me off the forum too if you would
rather.
Thanks,
Mike
Prunedale, CA
mike(at)seatec.us
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329073#329073
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Hmmm ... need help figuring out AS Fin Kit |
| From: | "PShipman" <perrytshipman(at)gmail.com> |
So Dave and I have the wood and glue for the tail feathers and are sitting here
right now trying to lay out the fin.
Need help with a few (to say the least) discrepancies.
First ... AS lists the wood necessary for building the fin and rudder as follows:
Link to Fin Kit Parts List.
The kit listed is (obviously??) wrong in that it lists no 1 x 1 spruce for the
main beam(s).
BUT ... the kit only includes 4 foot of 1 x 1 spruce and and, if we understand
the drawings correctly, we need about 7 feet of 1 x 1. The kit does include 15
foot of 3/4 x 1 spruce.
Finally ... the kit does NOT include any 3/16 x 1/2 capstrip ... are we correct
in presuming that AS really puts that in the HS and rudder kit?
And one last question ... it is unclear as to what is inserted at the top of the
fin between the two 1/16 inch gussets ... recommendations?
Having lots of fun using our old brains!
Thanks
Perry ... who is letting Dave the Engineer lay out the wood and meditate on it!
--------
Perry Shipman
Lakeside, CA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329150#329150
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Clif Dawson" <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Has anyone done a Piet with a CAM 100 engine? |
Sounds too much like "The Little Engine That Could"
I can make it! I can make it! I can make it! at 6000 rpm. :-)
Maybe I should find an old Easthope one lunger. Those things
shoved those double ender 32' fish boats at a hell of a rate.
All the while lazily going "chucka-pah, chucka-pah, chucka-
pa. Now wouldn't that sound great in a Piet!
As far as this cost thing goes, over the last ten years it's
cost me the equivalent of a dinner out for two every
month.
Clif
you'll end up with an airplane that looks like an old airplane AND sounds
like an old airplane.
something just isn't right about the sight of a Pietenpol taking off with an
engine screaming at 6000 RPM. >
> Bill C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Hmmm ... need help figuring out AS Fin Kit |
| From: | "Dangerous Dave" <dsornbor(at)aol.com> |
Perry and Dave,
The AS kit is pretty much wrong.You still need 1x1's for the trailing edge of
the fin the leading edge of the rudder.the capstrips are 5/8x3/16 for all the
tailfeathers so it looks like you need to rip the capstrips from the 5/8x1 1/4.One
thing that may make your life easier is to get some 1" dowels and split
them in half and glue the to the leading edges of the elevators and the rudder.Also
if you use 1x1 for the tops and bottom of the fin and rudder and taper them
it will come out alot smoother.Here are a couple of pics.This is just what
I did and I'm sure the are other ways of approching it.Getting started and figuring
out the plans was the best part for me.Dave
--------
Covering Piet
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329168#329168
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/2010_11_21_12_15_43_259_147.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/2011_01_09_08_12_36_297_208.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Hmmm ... need help figuring out AS Fin Kit |
| From: | "PShipman" <perrytshipman(at)gmail.com> |
Dave,
Thanks for your response!
I had said to Dave (the fool ... did I say that ... who is building this with me)
that "we'll get an answer from these folks in ten minutes, you watch."
So much for that, eh?
Yes ... you are quite right. Dave went through last night and, using the GN-1
plans, demonstrated how the AS kit is missing one three foot piece of 1 x 1 spruce
and ~32 foot of 5/16 X 1/2 capstrip. Not that AS overcharged or anything;
just a kit that is missing 1/3 of the needed items.
Bottom line is AS made an ASS out of us ??? [Idea]
On a more serious note, we did observe last night that it is amazing that BP's
plans, at least for the tail feathers, lend themselves to a certain degree of,
shall we say, interpretation. :)
That said, the most amazing thing is that so many Piets have been built and flown
which are, I suspect, not exactly as BP envisioned them in his plans. And
yet they just fly fine!
Kind of cool, IMO.
--------
Perry Shipman
Lakeside, CA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329170#329170
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | helspersew(at)aol.com |
I did not keep track, and spared no expense on tools, welders, benders etc.
Thank God I did this when I had money before the crash. This Piet project
WAS my life (besides my family of course) so I was enjoying it to the max.
Wasted a lot of money buying stuff I thought was really cool at the time bu
t ultimately cast aside for weight savings or better ideas later. Still spe
nding money on it but now I think long and hard beforehand. One thing is fo
r sure, I had a blast doing it.
Dan Helsper
In Puryear TN this week
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kip and Beth Gardner <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net> |
I am not keeping track of expenses besides keeping invoices for
homebuilt certification. I have a rough idea of how much I've spent,
but really, this is a HOBBY, so I'm not going to get too excited about
what it all costs. (I don't keep track of the cost of hunting &
fishing expenses either - if I did, I'd feel guilty about the cost of
the food brought home). I don't count the cost of tools against the
project, there's virtually nothing I've bought in the past 10 years
that wasn't used extensively for other things, including the long list
of honeydew projects that inevitably crop up.
Kip Gardner
On Feb 1, 2011, at 7:57 AM, HelsperSew(at)aol.com wrote:
> I did not keep track, and spared no expense on tools, welders,
> benders etc. Thank God I did this when I had money before the crash.
> This Piet project WAS my life (besides my family of course) so I was
> enjoying it to the max. Wasted a lot of money buying stuff I thought
> was really cool at the time but ultimately cast aside for weight
> savings or better ideas later. Still spending money on it but now I
> think long and hard beforehand. One thing is for sure, I had a blast
> doing it.
>
> Dan Helsper
> In Puryear TN this week
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> |
Even without the need for my rebuild, I know I spent significantly more than
if this had been my second project, or third. I'll bet I should shave 1/3rd
off my costs if I did another one.
Remember though, that the total cost really doesn't matter much in the end
as this project will be spread out over many years, and the money seems to
go out in "chunks" which are separated by months of just building.
I agree with a lot of the others in that it could probably been done for
under 15k.
Here are some suggestions for keeping costs down.
1. A latex paint job will save more than $1500 over polyfiber, dope or
stewarts, that's a bit chunk right there
2. building wire wheels up ends up being expensive, unless you can lace
wheels yourself. Save a chunk there and go with some salvaged airplane
donut wheels.
3. Don't scrimp on any hardware or wood, that stuff doesn't make a huge
difference and is what holds the plane together, and your butt in the air.
4. You really can find good engine deals, just don't start looking at
the last minute, save your money and then start searching barnstormers and
put the word out here, and you'll be surprised what shows up.
5. Don't look at is as building a plane per say. break it up into
smaller projects like, build a bunch of ribs, then build a wing, then build
a fuselage etc, etc, etc, and one day you'll walk into the shop and the "to
do" list will be empty.
6. Have fun. if you're not having fun and enjoying the process, why do
it? You can purchase a finished piet pretty easy.
Good luck!
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | entry step and does anybody have a spare... |
Hey,
Anybody who built an entry step from tubing that sticks out from the
fuselage. how did you attach it?? I'm kinda scratching my head. I think
I'm going to run my pipes down the sides, English "SE-5" style and my
inletted step won't work well with a pipe just above it.
Secondly, does anyone have a leftover short piece of streamline tubing that
would work for the step? Probably need about 8" max.
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gboothe5" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | entry step and does anybody have a spare... |
Douwe,
My step is a U-shape tube that is welded to an 'L' shaped plate (the short
leg of the L facing up so it could be bolted). There are 3 bolts that pass
thru, just under the seat, where I have fitted an oak block, backed up with
another metal bracket. Unfortunately, all pics are on my other laptop at
home, and I won't have access until this weekend.
Gary Boothe
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Douwe
Blumberg
Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 6:03 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: entry step and does anybody have a spare...
Hey,
Anybody who built an entry step from tubing that sticks out from the
fuselage. how did you attach it?? I'm kinda scratching my head. I think
I'm going to run my pipes down the sides, English "SE-5" style and my
inletted step won't work well with a pipe just above it.
Secondly, does anyone have a leftover short piece of streamline tubing that
would work for the step? Probably need about 8" max.
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: entry step and does anybody have a spare... |
| From: | "Jerry Dotson" <jdotson(at)centurylink.net> |
I am looking for ideas myself. I know I have got to put a step on mine or my duck
legs will never make it in! Picture please.
--------
Jerry Dotson
59 Daniel Johnson Rd
Baker, FL 32531
Started building NX510JD July, 2009
wing, tailfeathers done, fuselage rolling
using Lycoming O-235
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329188#329188
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Wire Wheel Build-up |
Someone in another post mentioned the cost of building wire wheels. I have
just done mine, (built, that is...no tires and the wheels are not mounted o
n the plane) so I thought I would share what I have learned.
After some local searching, I was not able to find wheels I wanted, so I we
nt to Buchanan's. I ordered rims, spokes and nipples. I sent them one of th
e hubs that I made myself and they custom cut and fit- one rim and a set
of spokes to it. The cost to "loose lace" this hub was $25.00. They sent th
e loose laced rim/hub/spoke wheel assembly and a duplicate set of spokes/ni
pples and rim back to me. (so that I could build the second one on my own.)
- They provided a sheet that spelled out exactly what the spoke sizes wer
e and where they went on the hub. (NOTE...my hubs have two different size f
langes, so Buchanan's stated what spokes are used for the small flange and
what spokes are used for the large flange. The sheet also called out what t
he different angles were that the spoke heads were bent to.)
Using the loose laced wheel as I guide, I laced my other wheel. (WELL worth
the $25.00!) Once I am ready, I will true both wheels and torque the spoke
s. This is a simple process using a pointer near the rim to check that it s
pins true as you torque the spokes. Kennie Buchanan was more then helpful.
I sent him drawings and pictures of my hubs and we talked about what type/s
ize spokes to use, etc. He understands what our wire wheels need to be safe
as used on an airplane.
If you need to go this route and have, or will have, a set of hubs to send
them, $50.00 will get BOTH wheels loose laced, then you just true/torque th
em yourself.
Of course the rims, spokes and nipples are not cheap.- 8^[ )
Michael Perez
=0AKaretaker Aero
=0Awww.karetakeraero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Hmmm ... need help figuring out AS Fin Kit |
| From: | Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
The 'interpretation' has just begun Perry, glad you figured out this one. In
the past the AS wood kits did not include capstrip, they expected you to by
that separate, no idea why since most everyone uses the same size.
rick
On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 5:30 AM, PShipman wrote:
>
> Dave,
>
> Thanks for your response!
>
> I had said to Dave (the fool ... did I say that ... who is building this
> with me) that "we'll get an answer from these folks in ten minutes, you
> watch."
>
> So much for that, eh?
>
> Yes ... you are quite right. Dave went through last night and, using the
> GN-1 plans, demonstrated how the AS kit is missing one three foot piece of 1
> x 1 spruce and ~32 foot of 5/16 X 1/2 capstrip. Not that AS overcharged or
> anything; just a kit that is missing 1/3 of the needed items.
>
> Bottom line is AS made an ASS out of us ??? [Idea]
>
> On a more serious note, we did observe last night that it is amazing that
> BP's plans, at least for the tail feathers, lend themselves to a certain
> degree of, shall we say, interpretation. :)
>
> That said, the most amazing thing is that so many Piets have been built and
> flown which are, I suspect, not exactly as BP envisioned them in his plans.
> And yet they just fly fine!
>
> Kind of cool, IMO.
>
> --------
> Perry Shipman
> Lakeside, CA
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329170#329170
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: entry step and does anybody have a spare... |
| From: | Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
I added three steps Jerry, one for accessing the top of the center section,
one for a front passenger, and one for the rear cockpit.
On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 8:15 AM, Jerry Dotson wrote:
> jdotson(at)centurylink.net>
>
> I am looking for ideas myself. I know I have got to put a step on mine or
> my duck legs will never make it in! Picture please.
>
> --------
> Jerry Dotson
> 59 Daniel Johnson Rd
> Baker, FL 32531
>
> Started building NX510JD July, 2009
> wing, tailfeathers done, fuselage rolling
> using Lycoming O-235
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329188#329188
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gene Rambo <generambo(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | entry step and does anybody have a spare... |
Douwe:
I have some scrap streamline that is about 1.5 x .75 or something like that
. I'll take a look when I go to my hangar next and send it to you.
Gene
From: douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net
Subject: Pietenpol-List: entry step and does anybody have a spare...
Date: Tue=2C 1 Feb 2011 09:02:54 -0500
Hey=2C
Anybody who built an entry step from tubing that sticks out from the fusela
ge=85 how did you attach it?? I=92m kinda scratching my head. I think I
=92m going to run my pipes down the sides=2C English =93SE-5=94 style and m
y inletted step won=92t work well with a pipe just above it.
Secondly=2C does anyone have a leftover short piece of streamline tubing th
at would work for the step? Probably need about 8=94 max.
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | airlion <airlion(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: entry step and does anybody have a spare... |
I made mine with a pipe that slides in and out of another pipe attached to
the rear seat bulkhead just above the lower longeron. It has a stop on insi
de and out side so I won't lose it. It works very well, and I can reach it
while sitting down.- Gardiner
--- On Tue, 2/1/11, Rick Holland wrote:
From: Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: entry step and does anybody have a spare..
.
Date: Tuesday, February 1, 2011, 11:30 AM
I added three steps Jerry, one for accessing the top of the center section,
one for a front passenger, and one for the rear cockpit.
On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 8:15 AM, Jerry Dotson wrot
e:
k.net>
=0A=0A
=0AI am looking for ideas myself. I know I have got to put a step on mine o
r my duck legs will never make it in! Picture please.
=0A
=0A--------
=0AJerry Dotson
=0A59 Daniel Johnson Rd
=0ABaker, FL 32531
=0A
=0AStarted building -NX510JD -July, 2009
=0Awing, tailfeathers done, fuselage rolling
=0Ausing Lycoming O-235
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0ARead this topic online here:
=0A
=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329188#329188
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A==========
=0Ast" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
=0A==========
=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com
=0A==========
=0Ale, List Admin.
=0A="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
=0A==========
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Hmmm ... need help figuring out AS Fin Kit |
| From: | Kenneth Bickers <bickers.ken(at)gmail.com> |
Perry,
One more item on the "interpretation" front. You'll discover, hopefully
before everything is glued together, one of the few actual mistakes in the
plans. The rudder as shown is about 1/2 inch too long. The rudder post in
the plans will end up extending below the bottom of the fuselage. The easy
fix is to shorten the rudder post and adjust the angle of the bottom spruce
piece that connects it to the trailing edge of the rudder. Otherwise, you
can make a little placard to attach to the bottom of the rudder that says
"Built exactly to plans":).
Cheers, Ken
On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 9:24 AM, Rick Holland wrote:
> The 'interpretation' has just begun Perry, glad you figured out this one.
> In the past the AS wood kits did not include capstrip, they expected you to
> by that separate, no idea why since most everyone uses the same size.
>
> rick
>
> On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 5:30 AM, PShipman wrote:
>
>> >
>>
>> Dave,
>>
>> Thanks for your response!
>>
>> I had said to Dave (the fool ... did I say that ... who is building this
>> with me) that "we'll get an answer from these folks in ten minutes, you
>> watch."
>>
>> So much for that, eh?
>>
>> Yes ... you are quite right. Dave went through last night and, using the
>> GN-1 plans, demonstrated how the AS kit is missing one three foot piece of 1
>> x 1 spruce and ~32 foot of 5/16 X 1/2 capstrip. Not that AS overcharged or
>> anything; just a kit that is missing 1/3 of the needed items.
>>
>> Bottom line is AS made an ASS out of us ??? [Idea]
>>
>> On a more serious note, we did observe last night that it is amazing that
>> BP's plans, at least for the tail feathers, lend themselves to a certain
>> degree of, shall we say, interpretation. :)
>>
>> That said, the most amazing thing is that so many Piets have been built
>> and flown which are, I suspect, not exactly as BP envisioned them in his
>> plans. And yet they just fly fine!
>>
>> Kind of cool, IMO.
>>
>> --------
>> Perry Shipman
>> Lakeside, CA
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329170#329170
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ==========
>> st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>> ==========
>> http://forums.matronics.com
>> ==========
>> le, List Admin.
>> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> ==========
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Rick Holland
> Castle Rock, Colorado
>
> "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: entry step and does anybody have a spare... |
I wish I had thought of adding a step to help access the centersection for
refueling. It's amazing how many airports don't have adequate ladders for
their fuel trucks.
Here are a couple of pictures showing how I attached mine:
Here is the Front Step
Here's an out of focus picture showing how it is attached under the
floorboard.
Then here is the rear step:
And a picture showing it in place:
Good luck,
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Raleigh, NC
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Holland
Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 11:30 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: entry step and does anybody have a spare...
I added three steps Jerry, one for accessing the top of the center section,
one for a front passenger, and one for the rear cockpit.
On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 8:15 AM, Jerry Dotson
wrote:
I am looking for ideas myself. I know I have got to put a step on mine or my
duck legs will never make it in! Picture please.
--------
Jerry Dotson
59 Daniel Johnson Rd
Baker, FL 32531
Started building NX510JD July, 2009
wing, tailfeathers done, fuselage rolling
using Lycoming O-235
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329188#329188
==========
st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
==========
http://forums.matronics.com
==========
le, List Admin.
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
==========
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Hmmm ... need help figuring out AS Fin Kit |
| From: | "PShipman" <perrytshipman(at)gmail.com> |
>>One more item on the "interpretation" front. ... little placard to
>>attach to the bottom of the rudder that says "Built exactly to plans".
[Laughing]
Ken ... thanks for the head's up! ... thankfully both Dave and I take pleasure
in finding all these little "bugs" (we're both OLD IT guys) so this is like a
fun puzzle!
Did order all the extra stuff this morning. We laid out the router table last
night and got the height set correctly on junk wood. Next we'll route up all
the wood for all the feathers and just lay it out. GREAT FUN! As our wives'
likes to say ... at least we know where there girl friend(s) are!
--------
Perry Shipman
Lakeside, CA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329203#329203
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
My $15,000 was spaced over the 8 years it took me to build my Pietenpol,
which averaged to $36 a week. The biggest single outlay was $3200 for new
cylinders for the engine. Most outlays were on the order of a couple
hundred dollars and were easily handled. I like to tell people that I spent
the same money on this airplane that a 2-pack a day smoker would have spent
on cigarettes in the same time frame.
I agree completely with Douwe about scrimping on the hardware or the wood.
The total cost of wood (all aircraft grade Sitka Spruce) in mine was just
under $1,100, or less than 10% of the total cost of the airplane. If I cut
that cost in half, and used other woods the plane would have been heavier,
possibly not as strong or as able to withstand turbulence and my bad
landings, and still would have cost $14,500. It is simply not worth the
savings to me.
Aircraft grade hardware is expensive. It is also very high quality. The
last thing you want is to be up in the air in the roughest turbulence you've
ever been in, wondering if those bolts that hold your wing on are going to
fail.
"The sour smell of poor quality lingers on long after the sweet taste of low
price is forgotten". Remember whose butt is going to be riding in this
creation of yours.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Raleigh, NC
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Douwe
Blumberg
Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 9:00 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: build costs
Even without the need for my rebuild, I know I spent significantly more than
if this had been my second project, or third. I'll bet I should shave 1/3rd
off my costs if I did another one.
Remember though, that the total cost really doesn't matter much in the end
as this project will be spread out over many years, and the money seems to
go out in "chunks" which are separated by months of just building.
I agree with a lot of the others in that it could probably been done for
under 15k.
Here are some suggestions for keeping costs down.
1. A latex paint job will save more than $1500 over polyfiber, dope or
stewarts, that's a bit chunk right there
2. building wire wheels up ends up being expensive, unless you can lace
wheels yourself. Save a chunk there and go with some salvaged airplane
donut wheels.
3. Don't scrimp on any hardware or wood, that stuff doesn't make a huge
difference and is what holds the plane together, and your butt in the air.
4. You really can find good engine deals, just don't start looking at
the last minute, save your money and then start searching barnstormers and
put the word out here, and you'll be surprised what shows up.
5. Don't look at is as building a plane per say. break it up into
smaller projects like, build a bunch of ribs, then build a wing, then build
a fuselage etc, etc, etc, and one day you'll walk into the shop and the "to
do" list will be empty.
6. Have fun. if you're not having fun and enjoying the process, why do
it? You can purchase a finished piet pretty easy.
Good luck!
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wing Construction |
| From: | "DOMIT" <rx7_ragtop(at)yahoo.com> |
Hmmm... not to be the "bad guy" here... looks very nice! But.. is your plywood
web done with the face grain running along the length of the spar? "Best practice"
is 45 degrees, but vertical face grains are stronger than horizontal.
(Ok, you can tell me to shut up now...)
The web carries loads in shear... essentially parallel to the length of the spar.
This means the loads are trying to split the face grains of the ply if it
is oriented parallel to the length.
I'd test this carefully- from the sizes you listed it is probaby plenty stout,
but just to be safe! Did the design call for ply running parallel to the length?
If so, someone probably did all the calculations and said it is ok. If not,
I'd verify it before flying it.
Once again, my apologies for the somewhat-negative comments. I'm not trying to
be the bad guy, just trying to say "be safe!"
--------
Brad "DOMIT" Smith
First rule of ground school: This is the ground... don't hit it going fast.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329211#329211
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org> |
Speaking of "It really depends" In 1972 dollars we built ours for $1500.00. In
the late 90's I rebuilt the engine (C-85-12) for $1300.00 and in 2000 my daughter
and I rebuilt the airframe for $4500.00. All said I guess I have about
$7300.00 in mine and 39 years of enjoyment. Even now I still mis the building
process. I say just do something on it every day, no matter how big or small,
and one day you will have a flying machine. Then the money won't matter anymore.
Oh yea, save the wood chips so you can use them for tooth pics when you
get bugs in you teeth from all the smile'n.
--------
Scott Liefeld
Flying N11MS since March 1972
Steel Tube
C-85-12
Wire Wheels
Brodhead in 1996
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329212#329212
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Hmmm ... need help figuring out AS Fin Kit |
| From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
I concur... the AS package did not include everything for the tail feathers, or
perhaps I cut something wrong. I wish I would
have kept more detailed notes during that part of the construction because I know
that I had to improvise on a couple of
things (minor). The capstrip comments are somewhat correct... the capstrip for
the wing ribs was not included, but I did
receive nine 3/16"x1/2"x6' strips and nine 3/16"x1/2"x4' strips in the complete
package that I ordered in 2009.
The sub-assembly packages that they are selling now were supposed to contain
the same items that they grouped in
the complete package, which is no longer available... they obviously do not.
I have pretty much used up all of the wood
that came in the complete package and the only additional wood I've had to purchase
so far was plywood, wing rib cap,
turtle deck cap and the fuselage site stringers.
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329213#329213
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> |
| Subject: | Re: entry step and does anybody have a spare... |
I have the two pieces of tubing (telescoping) sitting in the corner
waiting for me to build a step very similar to what you have described.
Got the idea from the GN-1 plans.
----- Original Message -----
From: airlion
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 11:59 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: entry step and does anybody have a
spare...
I made mine with a pipe that slides in and out of another pipe
attached to the rear seat bulkhead just above the lower longeron. It has
a stop on inside and out side so I won't lose it. It works very well,
and I can reach it while sitting down. Gardiner
--- On Tue, 2/1/11, Rick Holland wrote:
From: Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: entry step and does anybody
have a spare...
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Tuesday, February 1, 2011, 11:30 AM
I added three steps Jerry, one for accessing the top of the
center section, one for a front passenger, and one for the rear cockpit.
On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 8:15 AM, Jerry Dotson
wrote:
I am looking for ideas myself. I know I have got to put a
step on mine or my duck legs will never make it in! Picture please.
--------
Jerry Dotson
59 Daniel Johnson Rd
Baker, FL 32531
Started building NX510JD July, 2009
wing, tailfeathers done, fuselage rolling
using Lycoming O-235
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329188#329188
==========
st"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
==========
http://forums.matronics.com
==========
le, List Admin.
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
==========
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | hvandervoo(at)aol.com |
I never added up the cost of the raw materials, my guess is around $ 15K
However consider this:
Flying an airplane build by your own hands,...priceless
That first flight is the most expensive (cost per hour) but worth every pen
ny.
Hans
NX15KV
long fuse, 3 piece wing, Corvair powered
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wing Construction |
| From: | "Mild Bill" <whfrank(at)charter.net> |
DOMIT wrote:
> Hmmm... not to be the "bad guy" here... looks very nice! But.. is your plywood
web done with the face grain running along the length of the spar? "Best practice"
is 45 degrees, but vertical face grains are stronger than horizontal.
(Ok, you can tell me to shut up now...)
>
> The web carries loads in shear... essentially parallel to the length of the spar.
This means the loads are trying to split the face grains of the ply if it
is oriented parallel to the length.
>
> I'd test this carefully- from the sizes you listed it is probaby plenty stout,
but just to be safe! Did the design call for ply running parallel to the length?
If so, someone probably did all the calculations and said it is ok. If
not, I'd verify it before flying it.
>
> Once again, my apologies for the somewhat-negative comments. I'm not trying
to be the bad guy, just trying to say "be safe!"
As written in the Scriptures (specifically, NACA Technical Report No. 344, The
Design of Plywood Webs for Airplane Wing Beams):
"A study of the results of shearing tests and static tests of beams leads to the
conclusion that plywood webs are most efficient when the grain of one ply is
at 90 to the grain in adjacent plies, when the web is so arranged that the grain
of half of the materials is at 90 to the grain of the other half, and when
the grain of all the plies is at 45 to the longitudinal axis of the beam."
....
"Allowable shear stresses for plywood webs so constructed that the plies are alternately
parallel and perpendicular to the length of the beam should not exceed
87 1/2 per cent of those recommended for 45 plywood. The beams with 45 plywood
webs are also stiffer than the others, because of the fact that the shearing
modulus for the 45 webs is higher than for the parallel-perpendicular webs."
....
"Very few data are available relative to the shearing modulus of plywood webs the
grain of which is alternately parallel and perpendicular to the length of the
beam. What data are available indicate that the shearing modulus of such plywood
is the same as that for solid wood of the same species. In other words,
the shearing modulus of 45 plywood is about three times as great as that for parallel-perpendicular
plywood."
http://naca.central.cranfield.ac.uk/reports/1931/naca-report-344.pdf
(Note the UK domain - the Brits' pdf copy of this report is a lot better than NASA's.)
The question is how a 3/8" thick parallel-perpendicular plywood web on a Pietenpol
I-beam spar fits in with all this. I would have to find my copy of ANC-18
and other reference materials and crunch some numbers before venturing an opinion
one way or the other. (But I suspect that 3/8" is overkill and there's no
need to worry about the grain orientation on the spar that has already been built.)
--------
Bill Frank
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329228#329228
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ben Charvet <bencharvet(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: entry step and does anybody have a spare... |
I put a retractable step on mine that bolts to the floor and
reinforcement cross member in front of the rear seat. I just found two
tubes that would slide in each other. Having done that I've never used
it in 65 hours of flying. For me right now its easier to just swing a
leg over the side and climb in. I expect if I'm still flying it 20
years from now the step will come in handy.
Ben
On 2/1/2011 9:02 AM, Douwe Blumberg wrote:
>
> Hey,
>
> Anybody who built an entry step from tubing that sticks out from the
> fuselage... how did you attach it?? I'm kinda scratching my head. I
> think I'm going to run my pipes down the sides, English "SE-5" style
> and my inletted step won't work well with a pipe just above it.
>
> Secondly, does anyone have a leftover short piece of streamline tubing
> that would work for the step? Probably need about 8" max.
>
> Douwe
>
> *
>
>
> *
--
Ben Charvet, PharmD
Staff Pharmacist
Parrish Medical center
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "MPB" <mike(at)seatec.us> |
In all reality I don't really think I would track costs much either once the build
was under way, but it is nice to hear others come back with the 15k number
as a realistic wild guess on my part. I know I can go out and buy one for 15k,
but that doesn't sound nearly as fun as building one for about that much :-)
Mike
Prunedale, CA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329233#329233
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Hmmm ... need help figuring out AS Fin Kit |
| From: | "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca> |
I think the key here lies in the fine print at the bottom of the page.
On the AS webpage, there is a note that says to refer to the plans and verify that
the sizes and quantities are what is required. Although it really seems very
odd that the sizes and quantities listed on that website are different from
what they actually ship.
I wouldn't place an order for one of these "kits" without doing a thorough check
of what they have included, as compared to the plans.
This case has demonstrated fairly well that the "kits" are not necessarily complete,
and do contain errors. The 3 foot piece of 3/4" x 1" is most likely the
leading edge, and the 4 foot piece of 5/8" x 1 1/4" is for the trailing edge,
and according to my calculations there should be 12 feet of 1" x 1" (main beam)
for the tops and bottoms and the pieces that the hinges are mounted to, as well
as about 4 feet of 3/4" x 1" (center beam).
According to the plans, the capstrips are 3/16" x 1/2", NOT 5/16" x 1/2" or 5/8"
x 3/16", as mentioned in some of the responses.
Additionally, the space between the gussets at the top of the fin is filled with
solid wood (I used spruce). And ALL of the gussets on the tail and fuselage
are 1/8" thick, not 1/16".
I would imagine that ordering your wood from AS one "kit" at a time would be a
good way to needlessly add a significant amount to the final tally of building
costs, since the shipping costs will definitely be MORE to ship a bunch of smaller
packages, rather than one or two bigger parcels.
Here's a tip: Order one (or two) of Aircraft Spruce's "bargain bag of spruce".
There are lots of very useful pieces of spruce offcuts in each "bag". A VERY worthwhile
purchase - right, Dan H? That's where the filler block for the top of
my fin came from (not to mention lots of other parts). Having a bundle of various-sized
chunks of spruce comes in very handy if you happen to misorder or
need to remake a part (not that I ever had to do THAT :) ).
Hope some of this is helpful to you.
Now, let's see how long it takes till you ask how all the different profiles of
the various sticks are supposed to fit together. :)
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329234#329234
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/top_of_fin_485.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/top_of_fin_filler_532.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "aussiegeorge" <avionixoz(at)yahoo.com> |
Has anybody fabricated the ribs out of plywood. I was looking at a 30 foot long
cnc router the other day and it occurred to me that it could cut out some cap
strips and fillers very quickly and they would all be the same.
I was wondering if I am thinking of going where no man has gone before with this?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329238#329238
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Cardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing Construction |
NACA Technical Report #344, ANC-18, part of ANC-19 and other good info on
built-up spars is available on Chris Tracy's website www.westcoastpiet.com
Greg Cardinal
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mild Bill" <whfrank(at)charter.net>
Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 3:17 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing Construction
>
>
> DOMIT wrote:
>> Hmmm... not to be the "bad guy" here... looks very nice! But.. is your
>> plywood web done with the face grain running along the length of the
>> spar? "Best practice" is 45 degrees, but vertical face grains are
>> stronger than horizontal. (Ok, you can tell me to shut up now...)
>>
>> The web carries loads in shear... essentially parallel to the length of
>> the spar. This means the loads are trying to split the face grains of
>> the ply if it is oriented parallel to the length.
>>
>> I'd test this carefully- from the sizes you listed it is probaby plenty
>> stout, but just to be safe! Did the design call for ply running parallel
>> to the length? If so, someone probably did all the calculations and said
>> it is ok. If not, I'd verify it before flying it.
>>
>> Once again, my apologies for the somewhat-negative comments. I'm not
>> trying to be the bad guy, just trying to say "be safe!"
>
> As written in the Scriptures (specifically, NACA Technical Report No. 344,
> The Design of Plywood Webs for Airplane Wing Beams):
>
> "A study of the results of shearing tests and static tests of beams leads
> to the conclusion that plywood webs are most efficient when the grain of
> one ply is at 90 to the grain in adjacent plies, when the web is so
> arranged that the grain of half of the materials is at 90 to the grain
> of the other half, and when the grain of all the plies is at 45 to the
> longitudinal axis of the beam."
>
> ....
>
> "Allowable shear stresses for plywood webs so constructed that the plies
> are alternately parallel and perpendicular to the length of the beam
> should not exceed 87 1/2 per cent of those recommended for 45 plywood.
> The beams with 45 plywood webs are also stiffer than the others, because
> of the fact that the shearing modulus for the 45 webs is higher than for
> the parallel-perpendicular webs."
>
> ....
>
> "Very few data are available relative to the shearing modulus of plywood
> webs the grain of which is alternately parallel and perpendicular to the
> length of the beam. What data are available indicate that the shearing
> modulus of such plywood is the same as that for solid wood of the same
> species. In other words, the shearing modulus of 45 plywood is about
> three times as great as that for parallel-perpendicular plywood."
>
>
> http://naca.central.cranfield.ac.uk/reports/1931/naca-report-344.pdf
>
> (Note the UK domain - the Brits' pdf copy of this report is a lot better
> than NASA's.)
>
> The question is how a 3/8" thick parallel-perpendicular plywood web on a
> Pietenpol I-beam spar fits in with all this. I would have to find my copy
> of ANC-18 and other reference materials and crunch some numbers before
> venturing an opinion one way or the other. (But I suspect that 3/8" is
> overkill and there's no need to worry about the grain orientation on the
> spar that has already been built.)
>
> --------
> Bill Frank
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329228#329228
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TOM MICHELLE BRANT <tmbrant(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | laminated wood cabanes |
Today I cut up some spruce and plywood and tried my hand at laminating the
cabanes. I was intending to do 1 1/8" thick by 2" wide but ended up with a
bout 7/8" thickness (don't ask). I hope the thickness is enough=2C but I g
uess if it doesn't seem right I'll add some more thickness - after all=2C i
t's already laminated.
What sizes have others done for sizes??
I laminated an extra one which I'll use as a test dummy. My intention is t
o see what they can stand in tension and compression but I don't quite know
how to set up a test rig.
Tom B.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | helspersew(at)aol.com |
Here is an option.
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN. (No snow, only rain)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | helspersew(at)aol.com |
Here is an option.
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN. (No snow, only rain)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Owen Davies <owen5819(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: plywood ribs |
On 2/1/2011 7:20 PM, aussiegeorge wrote:
> Has anybody fabricated the ribs out of plywood.
I've never actually seen it, but for whatever it's worth I did hear of
one 20 year or so ago.
I ran across a test report this afternoon comparing ribs of varying
construction. It isn't exactly definitive, but interesting. If you want,
I can send you a copy.
Owen
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kenneth Bickers <bickers.ken(at)gmail.com> |
Wow, Dan, that's beautiful. After seeing the artistry in your's, mine seems
positively primitive.
Here are some pics of what I did for a step. The length on mine is approx
10 inches, with about half of that extending beyond the side of the
fuselage. It is attached just in front of the forward edge of the
rear seat. The vertical drops are about two inches. I figure it will make
it easier to install the fabric this way. The plate to which the drops are
welded is 0.90 4130. The L-shaped bracket is 0.80 and was cut from a scrap
of rectangular 4130 tubing. All the pieces were from scraps of two sizes of
streamlined tubing from an assortment box that I bought from Wicks years
ago. The wood block is oak; ash would probably be better. Hardware right now
is from Ace. After the metal pieces are cleaned up and painted, the step
will be attached with AN fasteners. Likewise the clothesline isn't
permanent. It is there to check alignment from rudder pedals, etc.
Cheers, Ken
On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 5:51 PM, wrote:
> Here is an option.
>
> Dan Helsper
> Puryear, TN. (No snow, only rain)
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gboothe5" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | laminated wood cabanes |
Tom,
My guess is that 7/8=94 is good, but you can build a tension tester just
by
making an L-shaped lever at about a 10-1 ratio. You put 200 lbs on the
long
lever, you exert 2,000 lbs on the short lever. There are 8 bolts that
hold
the cabanes to the wings, so, if you only test to 2,000 lbs, that=92s
the same
as 16,000lbs tested for all 8. Even if you follow Shad Bell=92s Jungster
thru
+9 g=92s, that=92s the approximate equivalent of 9,900 lbs (God be with
you).
Additionally, most cabane fittings have at least 2 bolts in the cabane,
essentially cutting the force on each bolt by =BD! =91Course, I=92m just
a country
boy, with no degree in nuthin=92=85maybe one of you engineer types can
chime
in=85.
Gary Boothe
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of TOM
MICHELLE
BRANT
Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 3:31 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: laminated wood cabanes
Today I cut up some spruce and plywood and tried my hand at laminating
the
cabanes. I was intending to do 1 1/8" thick by 2" wide but ended up
with
about 7/8" thickness (don't ask). I hope the thickness is enough, but I
guess if it doesn't seem right I'll add some more thickness - after all,
it's already laminated.
What sizes have others done for sizes??
I laminated an extra one which I'll use as a test dummy. My intention
is to
see what they can stand in tension and compression but I don't quite
know
how to set up a test rig.
Tom B.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | prhoads61(at)frontiernet.net |
| Subject: | Re: plywood ribs |
My airplane , N12939, has plywood ribs. It was completed in 1972 by Ed Sampson,
and 800+/- hours later it's still going strong. Ed told me at Brodhead this
year that he did it that way because it was easier and quicker. I think he said
the Flybaby wing is built that way. N12939 has the original Pietenpol airfoil
and flys great.
Perry Rhoads
Carlinville,IL.
N12939
----- Original Message -----
From: "aussiegeorge" <avionixoz(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 1, 2011 6:20:21 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: plywood ribs
Has anybody fabricated the ribs out of plywood. I was looking at a 30 foot long
cnc router the other day and it occurred to me that it could cut out some cap
strips and fillers very quickly and they would all be the same.
I was wondering if I am thinking of going where no man has gone before with this?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329238#329238
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
Corky said it perfectly. To fill in what he DIDN'T say, here's
the rest of the story. You can go back through the archives and
find his posting when he offered 41CC for sale for $15,000. He
made sure it was a "no B.S." offer and negotiation, and I hope it
was. The airplane had just had its test time flown off so it was
essentially brand-new, had an A65 and Hegy prop, very nice panel
full of instruments, and was a proven flyer. All of which is to
say that this is one more data point at the $15K mark for a good,
sound, flying Air Camper.
What was NOT included in the cost was the overwhelmingly wonderful
boat-load of intangibles that came with the airplane. Permanent
friendships, trust, honor, generosity, ingenuity, fun, pleasure,
gifts, knowledge... and the inestimable value of wonderful hours of
flying, tinkering, tuning, learning, adjusting, and more flying
that this airplane has brought me. Value cannot be placed on that.
Tomorrow, February 2, I will hand a check for $32,000+ to an automobile
dealership for a new vehicle for my wife. It's a 2011 model SUV.
If 41+ years with this same woman provide any pattern for the future,
we will keep this vehicle for about 10 years and put maybe 120,000
miles on it in that time. This vehicle will cost twice what the
Piet cost me but I will not stay up at night thinking about tiny
improvements to it, or how I will approach the garage to park it
next time I drive it, or much of anything about it except the bare
essentials. Not so with my Air Camper, which does not have even a
tiny fraction of the comfort, accessories, safety features, performance,
or capability of the SUV. I think about my airplane, and flying it,
all the time. My airplane demands far greater care than my car but
will bring me much more pleasure and enjoyment. Before deciding to
purchase this SUV, I compared features and reviews online and then
went shopping for the best price. Before deciding to purchase
41CC, I underwent a complete change in lifestyle and way of thinking.
I didn't used to think much of Pietenpols... in fact, I didn't even know what
they were and didn't even notice them in my flying magazines. Now
they are the standard against which all others are judged.
I'm glad Bernard Pietenpol lived on this earth and brought us this
wonderful machine. I don't even know who Chevrolet was, although
my family still runs a large Chevrolet dealership in south Texas
and has for the last 50 years. I guess I should at least learn more
about Mr. Chevrolet in fairness to him.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
San Antonio, TX
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ray Krause" <raykrause(at)frontiernet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wire Wheel Build-up |
Michael,
How much does one of the wheels weigh? Some metal, spoked wheel came
with my Sky Scout "Stuff", but I think they are pretty heavy. Any one
else with wheel weights that would help me?
Thanks and fly SAFELY,
Ray Krause
Waiex 51YX, Jabiru 3300 (1197), Sensenich wood prop, AeroCarb (#2 needle
modified), Dynon D-180, Garmin SL 30 NavCom, Garmin 327 transponder,
Garmin Aera 560, nav and strobe lights: 240 hrs. Building Sky Scout,
tail feathers done, ribs done, fuselage .66 done maybe only 3-4 years
more!.
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Perez
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 8:07 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wire Wheel Build-up
Someone in another post mentioned the cost of building wire
wheels. I have just done mine, (built, that is...no tires and the wheels
are not mounted on the plane) so I thought I would share what I have
learned.
After some local searching, I was not able to find wheels I
wanted, so I went to Buchanan's. I ordered rims, spokes and nipples. I
sent them one of the hubs that I made myself and they custom cut and fit
one rim and a set of spokes to it. The cost to "loose lace" this hub
was $25.00. They sent the loose laced rim/hub/spoke wheel assembly and a
duplicate set of spokes/nipples and rim back to me. (so that I could
build the second one on my own.)
They provided a sheet that spelled out exactly what the spoke
sizes were and where they went on the hub. (NOTE...my hubs have two
different size flanges, so Buchanan's stated what spokes are used for
the small flange and what spokes are used for the large flange. The
sheet also called out what the different angles were that the spoke
heads were bent to.)
Using the loose laced wheel as I guide, I laced my other wheel.
(WELL worth the $25.00!) Once I am ready, I will true both wheels and
torque the spokes. This is a simple process using a pointer near the rim
to check that it spins true as you torque the spokes. Kennie Buchanan
was more then helpful. I sent him drawings and pictures of my hubs and
we talked about what type/size spokes to use, etc. He understands what
our wire wheels need to be safe as used on an airplane.
If you need to go this route and have, or will have, a set of
hubs to send them, $50.00 will get BOTH wheels loose laced, then you
just true/torque them yourself.
Of course the rims, spokes and nipples are not cheap. 8^[ )
Michael Perez
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ray Krause" <raykrause(at)frontiernet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: entry step and does anybody have a spare... |
Jack,
When you cover the fuselage, do the metal brackets end up under the
covering or over the covering? For example, in your picture, do you
remove all the brackets, cover, then replace the brackets over the
covering... making holes in the covering for the bolts and just pressing
the covering in against the wood? Do you taper that bottom "longeron"
around the brackets so the covering is closer to the wood side panel?
Beautiful work, by the way!
Thanks,
Ray Krause
Building Sky Scout in Colusa, CA
----- Original Message -----
From: Jack Phillips
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 9:25 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: entry step and does anybody have a
spare...
I wish I had thought of adding a step to help access the centersection
for refueling. It's amazing how many airports don't have adequate
ladders for their fuel trucks.
Here are a couple of pictures showing how I attached mine:
Here is the Front Step
Here's an out of focus picture showing how it is attached under the
floorboard.
Then here is the rear step:
And a picture showing it in place:
Good luck,
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Raleigh, NC
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick
Holland
Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 11:30 AM
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: entry step and does anybody have a
spare...
I added three steps Jerry, one for accessing the top of the center
section, one for a front passenger, and one for the rear cockpit.
On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 8:15 AM, Jerry Dotson
wrote:
I am looking for ideas myself. I know I have got to put a step on mine
or my duck legs will never make it in! Picture please.
--------
Jerry Dotson
59 Daniel Johnson Rd
Baker, FL 32531
Started building NX510JD July, 2009
wing, tailfeathers done, fuselage rolling
using Lycoming O-235
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329188#329188
==========
st"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
==========
http://forums.matronics.com
==========
le, List Admin.
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
==========
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TOM MICHELLE BRANT <tmbrant(at)msn.com> |
wow - that's way to pretty to step on though...
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Entry Step
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
Date: Tue=2C 1 Feb 2011 19:51:07 -0500
Here is an option.
Dan Helsper
Puryear=2C TN. (No snow=2C only rain)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wire Wheel Build-up |
| From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
Michael Perez wrote:
> Of course the rims, spokes and nipples are not cheap.
Care to elaborate? I'm looking at a couple of wheel options and I curious how
they compare in price.
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329270#329270
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TOM MICHELLE BRANT <tmbrant(at)msn.com> |
Wasn't Chevrolet the guy who 'sponsored' the fabrication of those Pietenpol
engines that are 'always' snapping the crank?
See=2C both guys were equally interesting.
Tom B.
> From: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Build cost
> Date: Tue=2C 1 Feb 2011 21:05:32 -0600
>
>
>
>
> Corky said it perfectly. To fill in what he DIDN'T say=2C here's
> the rest of the story. You can go back through the archives and
> find his posting when he offered 41CC for sale for $15=2C000. He
> made sure it was a "no B.S." offer and negotiation=2C and I hope it
> was. The airplane had just had its test time flown off so it was
> essentially brand-new=2C had an A65 and Hegy prop=2C very nice panel
> full of instruments=2C and was a proven flyer. All of which is to
> say that this is one more data point at the $15K mark for a good=2C
> sound=2C flying Air Camper.
>
> What was NOT included in the cost was the overwhelmingly wonderful
> boat-load of intangibles that came with the airplane. Permanent
> friendships=2C trust=2C honor=2C generosity=2C ingenuity=2C fun=2C pleasu
re=2C
> gifts=2C knowledge... and the inestimable value of wonderful hours of
> flying=2C tinkering=2C tuning=2C learning=2C adjusting=2C and more flying
> that this airplane has brought me. Value cannot be placed on that.
>
> Tomorrow=2C February 2=2C I will hand a check for $32=2C000+ to an automo
bile
> dealership for a new vehicle for my wife. It's a 2011 model SUV.
> If 41+ years with this same woman provide any pattern for the future=2C
> we will keep this vehicle for about 10 years and put maybe 120=2C000
> miles on it in that time. This vehicle will cost twice what the
> Piet cost me but I will not stay up at night thinking about tiny
> improvements to it=2C or how I will approach the garage to park it
> next time I drive it=2C or much of anything about it except the bare
> essentials. Not so with my Air Camper=2C which does not have even a
> tiny fraction of the comfort=2C accessories=2C safety features=2C perform
ance=2C
> or capability of the SUV. I think about my airplane=2C and flying it=2C
> all the time. My airplane demands far greater care than my car but
> will bring me much more pleasure and enjoyment. Before deciding to
> purchase this SUV=2C I compared features and reviews online and then
> went shopping for the best price. Before deciding to purchase
> 41CC=2C I underwent a complete change in lifestyle and way of thinking.
> I didn't used to think much of Pietenpols... in fact=2C I didn't even kno
w what
> they were and didn't even notice them in my flying magazines. Now
> they are the standard against which all others are judged.
>
> I'm glad Bernard Pietenpol lived on this earth and brought us this
> wonderful machine. I don't even know who Chevrolet was=2C although
> my family still runs a large Chevrolet dealership in south Texas
> and has for the last 50 years. I guess I should at least learn more
> about Mr. Chevrolet in fairness to him.
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
> San Antonio=2C TX
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: entry step and does anybody have a spare... |
Ray,
The steps are under the fabric. Note the small strips of spruce at the
edge
of the plywood in the pictures. This holds the fabric off the plywood a
bit
(about =BC=94) to help keep the fabric contours smooth. The frabic goes
over
all the fittings, such as the landing gear/lfit strut fittings as well.
Fabric patches are then applied over all protuberances where bolt heads
are
under the fabric to provide extra reinforcement against chafing. And
before
the fabric is sinstalled, anti-chafing tape is applied over any sharp
projections beneath the fabric.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP =93Icarus Plummet=94
Raleigh, NC
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ray
Krause
Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 11:19 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: entry step and does anybody have a
spare...
Jack,
When you cover the fuselage, do the metal brackets end up under the
covering
or over the covering? For example, in your picture, do you remove all
the
brackets, cover, then replace the brackets over the covering... making
holes
in the covering for the bolts and just pressing the covering in against
the
wood? Do you taper that bottom "longeron" around the brackets so the
covering is closer to the wood side panel?
Beautiful work, by the way!
Thanks,
Ray Krause
Building Sky Scout in Colusa, CA
----- Original Message -----
From: Jack <mailto:pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> Phillips
Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 9:25 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: entry step and does anybody have a
spare...
I wish I had thought of adding a step to help access the centersection
for
refueling. It=92s amazing how many airports don=92t have adequate
ladders for
their fuel trucks.
Here are a couple of pictures showing how I attached mine:
Here is the Front Step
Here=92s an out of focus picture showing how it is attached under the
floorboard.
Then here is the rear step:
And a picture showing it in place:
Good luck,
Jack Phillips
NX899JP =93Icarus Plummet=94
Raleigh, NC
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: plywood ribs |
| From: | "Jerry Dotson" <jdotson(at)centurylink.net> |
I have a small 18"X48" CNC router. It is pretty crude looking. I built it about
10 years ago from wood to see if the idea would work. The plan was to build it
from steel if it did. It has worked so well I wish I had took more time to make
it look good. It has 0.005" or less repeatability. I cut all the wing rib
gussets and my panel with it. I'm looking for a pretty piece of plywood for my
panels. The one in the picture is just a cheap luan plywood test cut. It only
takes about 5 minutes to cut and drill one. All done with a 1/8" carbide endmill.
The USMC coaster is an engraving gift I made for a Marine currently serving.
It is made from DuPont Corian counter top material.
--------
Jerry Dotson
59 Daniel Johnson Rd
Baker, FL 32531
Started building NX510JD July, 2009
wing, tailfeathers done, fuselage rolling
using Lycoming O-235
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329285#329285
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/usmc_insignia_183.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/panel_159.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/rib_gussets_136.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Cardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wire Wheel Build-up |
Hi Ray,
I can't say how much a single wheel weighs but the Jenny style gear on
NX18235 weighs in at 60 lbs. This includes:
Tires (3.50 X19)
Rims
Spokes
Axle
Bungee cords
Spreader bars
Gear legs
All bracing cables
All metal fittings
All attachment hardware
No brakes
See attached.
The tires have since been shaved smooth which probably saved a couple of
pounds.
Greg Cardinal
----- Original Message -----
From: Ray Krause
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 10:06 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wire Wheel Build-up
Michael,
How much does one of the wheels weigh? Some metal, spoked wheel came
with my Sky Scout "Stuff", but I think they are pretty heavy. Any one
else with wheel weights that would help me?
Thanks and fly SAFELY,
Ray Krause
Waiex 51YX, Jabiru 3300 (1197), Sensenich wood prop, AeroCarb (#2
needle modified), Dynon D-180, Garmin SL 30 NavCom, Garmin 327
transponder, Garmin Aera 560, nav and strobe lights: 240 hrs. Building
Sky Scout, tail feathers done, ribs done, fuselage .66 done maybe only
3-4 years more!.
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Perez
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 8:07 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wire Wheel Build-up
Someone in another post mentioned the cost of building wire
wheels. I have just done mine, (built, that is...no tires and the wheels
are not mounted on the plane) so I thought I would share what I have
learned.
After some local searching, I was not able to find wheels I
wanted, so I went to Buchanan's. I ordered rims, spokes and nipples. I
sent them one of the hubs that I made myself and they custom cut and fit
one rim and a set of spokes to it. The cost to "loose lace" this hub
was $25.00. They sent the loose laced rim/hub/spoke wheel assembly and a
duplicate set of spokes/nipples and rim back to me. (so that I could
build the second one on my own.)
They provided a sheet that spelled out exactly what the
spoke sizes were and where they went on the hub. (NOTE...my hubs have
two different size flanges, so Buchanan's stated what spokes are used
for the small flange and what spokes are used for the large flange. The
sheet also called out what the different angles were that the spoke
heads were bent to.)
Using the loose laced wheel as I guide, I laced my other
wheel. (WELL worth the $25.00!) Once I am ready, I will true both wheels
and torque the spokes. This is a simple process using a pointer near the
rim to check that it spins true as you torque the spokes. Kennie
Buchanan was more then helpful. I sent him drawings and pictures of my
hubs and we talked about what type/size spokes to use, etc. He
understands what our wire wheels need to be safe as used on an airplane.
If you need to go this route and have, or will have, a set of
hubs to send them, $50.00 will get BOTH wheels loose laced, then you
just true/torque them yourself.
Of course the rims, spokes and nipples are not cheap. 8^[ )
Michael Perez
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Woodflier(at)aol.com |
I built a step that was simply a piece of streamline tubing with a small
plate welded to the end on the step end, and the other end flattened. The
streamline tube ran across the bottom of the fuselage and was bolted to the
lower longerons with AN3 bolts and large fender washers. But I found that the
fuselage deformed a bit when I put my weight on it.. OK, no wisecracks!
I eventually tore that out, and designed what looks like a stirrup, with a
1" wide by about 8" steel plate at the top, steel tubing butt welded to
that and a larger oval plate at the bottom for the actual step. This I bolted
to the right lower longeron - using the bolt hole for the old step as one
of the holes, and drilling the holes through the neutral point. Works well,
and it doesn't pull the fuselage or stretch the fabric. I canted those
tubes a bit so that the forward part of the step sticks out more and the whole
step is about 20 degrees off parallel with the longeron. That makes it
easier to find when I get out and closer to the angle my leg is getting in.
I don't have a closeup pic of it but this is cropped and enlarged from a
larger image. If you want a better view, I can take a pic for you.
Matt Paxton
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Don Heringhaus" <don.h(at)wcoil.com> |
| Subject: | Re: plywood ribs |
Very neat setup Do you have plans for your router x y table??
Don
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: plywood ribs |
| From: | "DOMIT" <rx7_ragtop(at)yahoo.com> |
Jerry Dotson wrote:
> I have a small 18"X48" CNC router. It is pretty crude looking. I built it about
10 years ago from wood to see if the idea would work. The plan was to build
it from steel if it did. It has worked so well I wish I had took more time to
make it look good. It has 0.005" or less repeatability. I cut all the wing rib
gussets and my panel with it. I'm looking for a pretty piece of plywood for
my panels. The one in the picture is just a cheap luan plywood test cut. It only
takes about 5 minutes to cut and drill one. All done with a 1/8" carbide endmill.
> The USMC coaster is an engraving gift I made for a Marine currently serving.
It is made from DuPont Corian counter top material.
Very nice. Pretty doesn't count on tools, effectiveness does. :)
As for the panel, why not just laminate some burl walnut veneer on it or something
and call it good? :)
--------
Brad "DOMIT" Smith
First rule of ground school: This is the ground... don't hit it going fast.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329303#329303
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "bender" <jfaith(at)solairusaviation.com> |
Well i finally asked the right guy about a lumber yard... i was playing bluegrass
with a group of guys in southern Indiana Monday night and asked if any of them
knew anyone at a local wholesale lumber yard.... lucky me.. found a guy
i picked up 2, 16' and 2, 18' vertical grain beautiful spars... $232
they are 5/4 x 6 sawn douglas fir.. need to be planed to size but they look great..
So.. the one piece wing splice.... have you guys followed the plan on the splice
cutting the angle on the wide side.... or on the 1" side like in ac 43-13 ??
does that make sense ?
jeff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329304#329304
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: plywood ribs |
| From: | "Jerry Dotson" <jdotson(at)centurylink.net> |
"Very neat setup Do you have plans for your router x y table??
Don"
I have no plans. I just dreamed it up.
I don't know where to get the veneer.
--------
Jerry Dotson
59 Daniel Johnson Rd
Baker, FL 32531
Started building NX510JD July, 2009
wing, tailfeathers done, fuselage rolling
using Lycoming O-235
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329306#329306
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "kevinpurtee" <kevin.purtee(at)us.army.mil> |
Go per AC 43-13. In some of the later literature Mr. Pietenpol makes that correction.
Kevin
--------
Kevin "Axel" Purtee
NX899KP
Austin/Georgetown, TX
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329307#329307
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Barry Davis" <bed(at)mindspring.com> |
Wow Dan!
I would be scared to actually use this step ;-)
Barry
NX973BP
Carrollton, Ga
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Dillsburg Redux |
| From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
Not surprising. Although some are very faint, I think all of mine have line stamps.
I ordered full lengths, so where one stamp might be too faint to read,
a stamp further down the line might be more legible.
My partner (the guy who ordered with me) ended up with some tubing that was not
only impossible to read, or even find a stamp... some of his was even damaged.
Mr. Vogelsong insists that there was no damage to any of this tubing... he
claims that he knows this because he packaged it himself... yet there was no damage
to the outer carton when we received it.
I would like to add that I did end up getting the pieces that Dilsburg shorted
me... from AS. They are a bit more expensive, but the material is smooth with
bright yellow and easy to read line stamps... from Germany. The inside of the
tubing looks like a mirror finish... I have no idea how they extrude metal to
such a fine finish, but it looks great.
Looking back at my experience, I think I could have purchased what I needed (plus
a little extra) from AS for the same money, or perhaps slightly less than I
spent buying full lengths from Dillsburg. None of the lengths I needed required
18' - 20', but I thought it would be nice to have some extra material around.
As for shipping, USP Ground will haul up to 8' lengths, which would have
covered everything I needed, and would have been a far cry from the $255 freight
charge he surprised us with (he quoted $150).
Anyhow, for anyone reading this that might need 4130 tube... please heed our warnings.
I have looked at my material with a couple of experienced builders...
the line stamps indicate... 4130, COND N, GRADE A, etc., they agree that it should
be up to the same ASTM standards that the rest of the industrialized world
adheres to, but articles like this one from Kiplingers make me a little uncomfortable.
I'll be inspecting the pieces a little more closely that I plan to use on flying
assemblies. I know that these birds (and others) were made of 2120 and milder
grades of steel years ago, so hopefully this stuff is up to the task.
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329314#329314
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: plywood ribs |
| From: | "gtche98" <gtche98(at)gmail.com> |
You can get the veneer just about anywhere. I have even found less exotic varieties
at Menard's...
Another source:
http://www.rockler.com/c/wood-veneer.cfm
Just Google wood veneer and you will get thousands of hits. Locally, try a hardwood
lumber yard/mill or even a cabinet shop. They may have a scrap piece they
would sell you cheap.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329317#329317
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: plywood ribs |
I would also make sure it has the Lloyd's 1088 stamp....to me (not sure if this
is true or not) that meant higher quality, no voids, etc. All the 1088 ply I've
used was great to work with also.
I found mine at a cabinet shop but as mentioned below, it can be found at a lot
of different places.
jm
-----Original Message-----
>From: gtche98 <gtche98(at)gmail.com>
>Sent: Feb 2, 2011 12:02 PM
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: plywood ribs
>
>
>You can get the veneer just about anywhere. I have even found less exotic varieties
at Menard's...
>
>Another source:
>
>http://www.rockler.com/c/wood-veneer.cfm
>
>Just Google wood veneer and you will get thousands of hits. Locally, try a hardwood
lumber yard/mill or even a cabinet shop. They may have a scrap piece they
would sell you cheap.
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329317#329317
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: plywood ribs |
| From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
It's also got a B.S. stamp on it. Hmmm.
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329321#329321
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lawrence Williams <lnawms(at)yahoo.com> |
Mine was $8000 over 8 years and I have always considered it a great bargain.
I can't understand all the negativity about Stitts/Poly-Fiber. I went that route
after a lot of investigation and finally threw up my hands and went with what
was simple had been proven over many years (kinda like the Air Camper). Douwe
stated that a savings of $1500 could be realized by using house paint but I
didn't spend even close to that figureon everything for my finish. Where do
these "accepted inconsistancies" come from and why are they used as gospel to
justify descisions? Oh, well.
Build it as close to the plans as you can, don't add "cool stuff" or try to
re-engineer things and you will gain three benefits:
1. A lighter and better flying airplane.
2. Less cost overall.
3. A quicker build.
Larry W.
"The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's
money."
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: project cost |
| From: | Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
Breathing toxic fumes was a negative for me.
>
>
> I can't understand all the negativity about Stitts/Poly-Fiber.
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: project cost |
| From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
Rick wrote:
> Breathing toxic fumes was a negative for me.
Roger that... I'm not using that stuff if I don't have to.
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329335#329335
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wire Wheel Build-up |
Each complete wheel assembly you see in the picture, (21" X 2.15" rim, 40 spokes,
40 nipples, hub) weighs 9 pounds.
Michael Perez
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wire Wheel Build-up |
Since the question was directly asked... rims, spokes, nipples, 1 loose lac
ed assembly packaging and shipping cost $695.80.
-
I personally would do it again. The attention I got dealing with Kennie was
superb. He worked with me for weeks prior to me sending him the hub to get
started. He is very knowledgeable on what we need for aircraft use and wha
t type/size spokes should be used for a given rim size. He also knows how b
est to lace the wheel depending on-rim size and hub size, (width and flan
ge sizes) for hard landings, cross wind landings, unpaved strips, etc.
-
The rims are very nicely machined and are ROUND right out of the box. The t
hickness of the rims are very stout and the overall quality is superb. (my
opinion)- There are a lot of other rims out there...believe me, I looked
at them...and the specs.-I saw were quite thin and weak compared to the o
nes I have now.
-
Michael Perez
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
--- On Tue, 2/1/11, K5YAC wrote:
From: K5YAC <hangar10(at)cox.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wire Wheel Build-up
Date: Tuesday, February 1, 2011, 11:36 PM
Michael Perez wrote:
> Of course the rims, spokes and nipples are not cheap.
Care to elaborate?- I'm looking at a couple of wheel options and I curiou
s how they compare in price.
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329270#329270
le, List Admin.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Pietenpol near Olive Branch, MS? |
| From: | John Ackerman <afuturepilotis(at)gmail.com> |
Hello, my name is John. Me and my dad have both been long-time
aviation enthusiasts but (because of expense) have never actually
gotten our pilot licenses or anything. Well a good friend of mine
introduced me to EAA, and took me to Oshkosh, last year, and ever
since I've been hooked on building my own airplane. I've finally
convinced my dad and we're going to build a Pietenpol Air Camper
together.
I'm a 17 year old senior in high school, and I'm going to college (to
be a missionary pilot, I'll get my private and commercial and A&P
licenses, among others), in Texas, in the fall. Also our family is
going to be moving to SC in the next few months, so I'm planning to
buy the plans and start building after we move. I'll help dad build it
over the summers when I come home from college. I'll be rebuilding a
Corvair to power it while I'm in college.
So I was wondering...is there anyone around here that own an Air
Camper that might take us for a flight in it? Or, if not, someone in
SC who has one, that we might could come check out after we move?
Well thanks a whole lot!!!
John
--
Jesus didn't die to make us clean sinners,
He died to make us saints who sometimes get dirty.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | airlion <airlion(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol near Olive Branch, MS? |
hello john. call p f beck in barnwell sc he will be glad to take you for a ride
or two. he got me started on building mine and is a very nice gentleman. his
phone is 803-259-6381. cheers, gardiner mason , lagrange, ga NX 840LM
----- Original Message ----
From: John Ackerman <afuturepilotis(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Wed, February 2, 2011 4:40:34 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol near Olive Branch, MS?
Hello, my name is John. Me and my dad have both been long-time
aviation enthusiasts but (because of expense) have never actually
gotten our pilot licenses or anything. Well a good friend of mine
introduced me to EAA, and took me to Oshkosh, last year, and ever
since I've been hooked on building my own airplane. I've finally
convinced my dad and we're going to build a Pietenpol Air Camper
together.
I'm a 17 year old senior in high school, and I'm going to college (to
be a missionary pilot, I'll get my private and commercial and A&P
licenses, among others), in Texas, in the fall. Also our family is
going to be moving to SC in the next few months, so I'm planning to
buy the plans and start building after we move. I'll help dad build it
over the summers when I come home from college. I'll be rebuilding a
Corvair to power it while I'm in college.
So I was wondering...is there anyone around here that own an Air
Camper that might take us for a flight in it? Or, if not, someone in
SC who has one, that we might could come check out after we move?
Well thanks a whole lot!!!
John
--
Jesus didn't die to make us clean sinners,
He died to make us saints who sometimes get dirty.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com> |
Axel is correct. From the Builder's Manual from the Pietenpol family, Note
#10:
"Spruce is the preferred wood for spars and it's necessary to make a spar
splice to obtain a wing beam 29" long. The center is the proper location for
the splice. The splice as shown in the plans isn't in the correct
orientation. I would suggest that this splice be made according to the FAA
requirements."
Ryan
On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 10:43 AM, kevinpurtee wrote:
> kevin.purtee(at)us.army.mil>
>
> Go per AC 43-13. In some of the later literature Mr. Pietenpol makes that
> correction.
>
> Kevin
>
> --------
> Kevin "Axel" Purtee
> NX899KP
> Austin/Georgetown, TX
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329307#329307
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Hmmm ... need help figuring out AS Fin Kit |
| From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
Obviously there have been some changes made from the original package (not kit),
to what AS is offering in
the sub packs. It is my understanding that the original bill of materials for
the AS package was derived from a list
that was compiled by a fellow named Robert McKinley (see below). I'm certain I
read that somewhere,
but can't remember where. Some of you may know of him, I do not. Perhaps one
of the old timers could confirm
that for us. Anyhow, I used his list to compare to the list of materials that I
received in 2009 from AS, as seen
in the second image below. Most of the text in the notes column is what I think
McKinley was saying in his hand
written notes. Could be wrong, but it made sense to me. Compare for yourself.
McKiney's list was a big help in figuring out how to cut the stock lengths that
I received in my package, but when
I took inventory on all the items I found a couple of discrepancies from the original.
You can see these in the list
below, which I compiled from McKinley's and then added my own count and notes based
on what I received from AS.
McKinleys notes are typed in the comments to the right... my additions are in bold,
as well as the notes at the
bottom of the page.
It was my understanding that AS would be offering the same materials required for
the tail, fuse and wing
as they did in the complete package. Obviously that isn't entirely accurate.
I hope this list might be helpful to
others... it certainly was for me. If anyone wants an Excel or PDF version, let
me know and I'll send it.
I know, I know...
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329348#329348
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wire Wheel Build-up |
| From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
Thanks for the info. 9 lbs isn't too bad at all to some others I've considered,
but $700 [Shocked]
I'm not criticizing though... we all have choices to make. I'll probably have
$150.00 in my darn control horns when I finally get em done.
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329350#329350
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Steel (spring) Type Landing Gear |
| From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
I'm contemplating my landing gear and I've found at least two options where spring
style shock absorbers are concerned. One is from page 255 of Tony Bingelis'
"The Sportplane Builder" and the other is from Sy Debolt as found in an old
issue of the Buckeye Pietenpol Newsletter. I think the drawing may have been
done by Frank Pavliga as it notes "Redrawn by FSP". Forgive me if I've goofed
some of this information... just trying to give proper credit. Both are shown
below.
I have the materials for either, but I'm leaning towards the type shown in the
Buckeye newsletter primarily because the assembly looks more durable and would
allow removal of the different sections and spring should it be necessary. As
Tony points out in his writing, "spring (C) and collar (B) must be slipped on
to upper tube before welding lower (D) washer in place." Maybe I am worrying
about a non-issue, but if the spring were to break, or if I just wanted to replace
it with a softer or stiffer version, it looks like I'd have a lot of work
to do in order to accomplish this. The Buckeye version looks like it can be
completely disassembled for service or repair.
Is my thinking correct? Can anyone provide an opinion on one over the other?
I think that Tony's version is easier to construct, but I'm trying to look beyond
the fabrication and consider maintenance and durability.
Thanks!
The Sportplane Builder - Pg. 255 - Tony Bingelis
Buckeye Pietenpol Newsletter - Sy Debolt
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329355#329355
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wire Wheel Build-up |
| From: | "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca> |
Another option is the wheel kit offered by Airdrome Aeroplanes.
About $500 for a pair of wheels, including wide hubs, tires and tubes.
They look pretty good.
Some assembly required.
Batteries not included.
http://www.airdromeairplanes.com/HeavyDutyWheels.html
I believe Axel has a pair of these on his Piet.
Apparently they're so strong that it is possible to land on only one wheel...
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329356#329356
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wire Wheel Build-up |
| From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
Bill Church wrote:
> Another option is the wheel kit offered by Airdrome Aeroplanes.About $500 for
a pair of wheels, including wide hubs, tires and tubes.They look pretty good.
I've pretty much got my heart set on a pair of these. They are a bit heavier than
Michael's rims, but I've heard good things and I like the looks of them.
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329357#329357
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Steel (spring) Type Landing Gear |
| From: | Kip and Beth Gardner <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net> |
Mark,
Which issue of BPA News? Might have been Frank's Dad.
KIp Gardner
On Feb 2, 2011, at 5:48 PM, K5YAC wrote:
>
> I'm contemplating my landing gear and I've found at least two options where spring
style shock absorbers are concerned. One is from page 255 of Tony Bingelis'
"The Sportplane Builder" and the other is from Sy Debolt as found in an old
issue of the Buckeye Pietenpol Newsletter. I think the drawing may have been
done by Frank Pavliga as it notes "Redrawn by FSP". Forgive me if I've goofed
some of this information... just trying to give proper credit. Both are shown
below.
>
> I have the materials for either, but I'm leaning towards the type shown in the
Buckeye newsletter primarily because the assembly looks more durable and would
allow removal of the different sections and spring should it be necessary.
As Tony points out in his writing, "spring (C) and collar (B) must be slipped
on to upper tube before welding lower (D) washer in place." Maybe I am worrying
about a non-issue, but if the spring were to break, or if I just wanted to
replace it with a softer or stiffer version, it looks like I'd have a lot of
work to do in order to accomplish this. The Buckeye version looks like it can
be completely disassembled for service or repair.
>
> Is my thinking correct? Can anyone provide an opinion on one over the other?
I think that Tony's version is easier to construct, but I'm trying to look beyond
the fabrication and consider maintenance and durability.
>
> Thanks!
>
>
> The Sportplane Builder - Pg. 255 - Tony Bingelis
>
>
>
> Buckeye Pietenpol Newsletter - Sy Debolt
>
>
> --------
> Mark Chouinard
> Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
>
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329355#329355
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Gow" <rgow(at)avionicsdesign.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Wire Wheel Build-up |
I bought the hubs from them and had a motorcycle shop in California put on
larger rims (21 inch I think) and had them shipped here. Total cost about
the same. The local copper shop had some tyres with minimal tread the
look nice on them.
http://www.buchananspokes.net/contact/contact_us.asp
If anybody is interested I have a full set of ribs for the classic
Pietenpol 3 piece wing.
Bob
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of K5YAC
Sent: February 2, 2011 5:55 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wire Wheel Build-up
Bill Church wrote:
> Another option is the wheel kit offered by Airdrome Aeroplanes.About
$500 for a pair of wheels, including wide hubs, tires and tubes.They look
pretty good.
I've pretty much got my heart set on a pair of these. They are a bit
heavier than Michael's rims, but I've heard good things and I like the
looks of them.
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329357#329357
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wire Wheel Build-up |
| From: | "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca> |
Actually, Mark, I'll bet the weights are pretty much the same.
The Airdrome website says theirs weigh 18 pounds each, including tire and tube.
The weight of a 19 or 21 inch motorcycle tire and tube will be about 10 pounds,
so the rim/spokes/hub assembly would be about 8 pounds each.
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329361#329361
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Steel (spring) Type Landing Gear |
| From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
I don't know which version of the newsletter it was from... I only have the one
page. I think I may have got it from Jim Markle, or perhaps it was posted on
West Coast Piet... not sure. The date near the initials look like 3/1/04, but
it could be 94... again, I'm not sure.
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329362#329362
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wire Wheel Build-up |
| From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
Bill Church wrote:
> Actually, Mark, I'll bet the weights are pretty much the same. The Airdrome
website says theirs weigh 18 pounds each, including tire and tube. The weight
of a 19 or 21 inch motorcycle tire and tube will be about 10 pounds, so the rim/spokes/hub
assembly would be about 8 pounds each.
>
> Bill C.
Sounds good Bill. I saw where they stated 18 pounds each with tire and tube, I
guess I just didn't think the tire and tube accounted for that much weight.
Bob wrote:
> If anybody is interested I have a full set of ribs for the classic Pietenpol
3 piece wing.
Hey Gary! Ahh, nevermind.
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329364#329364
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Hmmm ... need help figuring out AS Fin Kit |
| From: | Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
Attached the contents of the full wood kit that they used to sell if anyone
is interested. It included everything I needed to build a long fuse Piet
except capstrip, plywood and strips for rear turtle deck and fuse side.
rick
On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 3:14 PM, K5YAC wrote:
>
> Obviously there have been some changes made from the original package (not
> kit), to what AS is offering in
> the sub packs. It is my understanding that the original bill of materials
> for the AS package was derived from a list
> that was compiled by a fellow named Robert McKinley (see below). I'm
> certain I read that somewhere,
> but can't remember where. Some of you may know of him, I do not. Perhaps
> one of the old timers could confirm
> that for us. Anyhow, I used his list to compare to the list of materials
> that I received in 2009 from AS, as seen
> in the second image below. Most of the text in the notes column is what I
> think McKinley was saying in his hand
> written notes. Could be wrong, but it made sense to me. Compare for
> yourself.
>
>
> McKiney's list was a big help in figuring out how to cut the stock lengths
> that I received in my package, but when
> I took inventory on all the items I found a couple of discrepancies from
> the original. You can see these in the list
> below, which I compiled from McKinley's and then added my own count and
> notes based on what I received from AS.
>
> McKinleys notes are typed in the comments to the right... my additions are
> in bold, as well as the notes at the
> bottom of the page.
>
>
> It was my understanding that AS would be offering the same materials
> required for the tail, fuse and wing
> as they did in the complete package. Obviously that isn't entirely
> accurate. I hope this list might be helpful to
> others... it certainly was for me. If anyone wants an Excel or PDF
> version, let me know and I'll send it.
>
> I know, I know...
>
> --------
> Mark Chouinard
> Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329348#329348
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Steel (spring) Type Landing Gear |
| From: | Kip and Beth Gardner <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net> |
I'm betting '94, the BPA newsletter went out of publication before I moved to OH.
In that case, almost certain it was Frank's Dad.
Kip Gardner
On Feb 2, 2011, at 6:14 PM, K5YAC wrote:
>
> I don't know which version of the newsletter it was from... I only have the one
page. I think I may have got it from Jim Markle, or perhaps it was posted
on West Coast Piet... not sure. The date near the initials look like 3/1/04,
but it could be 94... again, I'm not sure.
>
> --------
> Mark Chouinard
> Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
>
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329362#329362
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Steel (spring) Type Landing Gear |
| From: | Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
I built spring gear using the Bengelis style design you mentioned
(attached). You are correct, if I ever wanted a different spring I would
pretty much have to build another set from scratch. If the other design is
stronger and more modular why not go for it?
rick
On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 3:48 PM, K5YAC wrote:
>
> I'm contemplating my landing gear and I've found at least two options where
January 24, 2011 - February 02, 2011
Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-kb