Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-kc
February 02, 2011 - February 10, 2011
> spring style shock absorbers are concerned. One is from page 255 of Tony
> Bingelis' "The Sportplane Builder" and the other is from Sy Debolt as found
> in an old issue of the Buckeye Pietenpol Newsletter. I think the drawing
> may have been done by Frank Pavliga as it notes "Redrawn by FSP". Forgive
> me if I've goofed some of this information... just trying to give proper
> credit. Both are shown below.
>
> I have the materials for either, but I'm leaning towards the type shown in
> the Buckeye newsletter primarily because the assembly looks more durable and
> would allow removal of the different sections and spring should it be
> necessary. As Tony points out in his writing, "spring (C) and collar (B)
> must be slipped on to upper tube before welding lower (D) washer in place."
> Maybe I am worrying about a non-issue, but if the spring were to break, or
> if I just wanted to replace it with a softer or stiffer version, it looks
> like I'd have a lot of work to do in order to accomplish this. The Buckeye
> version looks like it can be completely disassembled for service or repair.
>
> Is my thinking correct? Can anyone provide an opinion on one over the
> other? I think that Tony's version is easier to construct, but I'm trying
> to look beyond the fabrication and consider maintenance and durability.
>
> Thanks!
>
>
> The Sportplane Builder - Pg. 255 - Tony Bingelis
>
>
> Buckeye Pietenpol Newsletter - Sy Debolt
>
>
> --------
> Mark Chouinard
> Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329355#329355
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Pietn38b(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Steel (spring) Type Landing Gear |
Mark
I used the Buckeye version and it is easy to work with. The spring noted
in the drawing was not strong enough for my airplane. It has proven very
durable in the last 200 hours and my less than graceful landings. I would
recommend the Buckeye version.
Jim Ballew
Piet N38B
In a message dated 2/2/2011 4:50:40 P.M. Central Standard Time,
hangar10(at)cox.net writes:
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "K5YAC"
I'm contemplating my landing gear and I've found at least two options
where spring style shock absorbers are concerned. One is from page 255 of Tony
Bingelis' "The Sportplane Builder" and the other is from Sy Debolt as
found in an old issue of the Buckeye Pietenpol Newsletter. I think the drawing
may have been done by Frank Pavliga as it notes "Redrawn by FSP".
Forgive me if I've goofed some of this information... just trying to give proper
credit. Both are shown below.
I have the materials for either, but I'm leaning towards the type shown in
the Buckeye newsletter primarily because the assembly looks more durable
and would allow removal of the different sections and spring should it be
necessary. As Tony points out in his writing, "spring (C) and collar (B)
must be slipped on to upper tube before welding lower (D) washer in place."
Maybe I am worrying about a non-issue, but if the spring were to break, or
if I just wanted to replace it with a softer or stiffer version, it looks
like I'd have a lot of work to do in order to accomplish this. The Buckeye
version looks like it can be completely disassembled for service or repair.
Is my thinking correct? Can anyone provide an opinion on one over the
other? I think that Tony's version is easier to construct, but I'm trying to
look beyond the fabrication and consider maintenance and durability.
Thanks!
The Sportplane Builder - Pg. 255 - Tony Bingelis
Buckeye Pietenpol Newsletter - Sy Debolt
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329355#329355
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank Metcalfe <fmetcalf(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol near Olive Branch, MS? |
On your way from Olive Branch to SC make a quick stop in Carrollton GA and
we can help you out !!
--- On Wed, 2/2/11, John Ackerman wrote:
From: John Ackerman <afuturepilotis(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol near Olive Branch, MS?
Date: Wednesday, February 2, 2011, 4:40 PM
om>
Hello, my name is John. Me and my dad have both been long-time
aviation enthusiasts but (because of expense) have never actually
gotten our pilot licenses or anything. Well a good friend of mine
introduced me to EAA, and took me to Oshkosh, last year, and ever
since I've been hooked on building my own airplane. I've finally
convinced my dad and we're going to build a Pietenpol Air Camper
together.
I'm a 17 year old senior in high school, and I'm going to college (to
be a missionary pilot, I'll get my private and commercial and A&P
licenses, among others), in Texas, in the fall. Also our family is
going to be moving to SC in the next few months, so I'm planning to
buy the plans and start building after we move. I'll help dad build it
over the summers when I come home from college. I'll be rebuilding a
Corvair to power it while I'm in college.
So I was wondering...is there anyone around here that own an Air
Camper that might take us for a flight in it? Or, if not, someone in
SC who has one, that we might could come check out after we move?
Well thanks a whole lot!!!
John
--
Jesus didn't die to make us clean sinners,
He died to make us saints who sometimes get dirty.
le, List Admin.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Steel (spring) Type Landing Gear |
| From: | Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
Does anyone have a scan of the buckeye design to share with the group?
On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 5:00 PM, wrote:
> Mark
>
> I used the Buckeye version and it is easy to work with. The spring noted
> in the drawing was not strong enough for my airplane. It has proven very
> durable in the last 200 hours and my less than graceful landings. I would
> recommend the Buckeye version.
>
> Jim Ballew
> Piet N38B
>
> In a message dated 2/2/2011 4:50:40 P.M. Central Standard Time,
> hangar10(at)cox.net writes:
>
>
> I'm contemplating my landing gear and I've found at least two options where
> spring style shock absorbers are concerned. One is from page 255 of Tony
> Bingelis' "The Sportplane Builder" and the other is from Sy Debolt as found
> in an old issue of the Buckeye Pietenpol Newsletter. I think the drawing
> may have been done by Frank Pavliga as it notes "Redrawn by FSP". Forgive
> me if I've goofed some of this information... just trying to give proper
> credit. Both are shown below.
>
> I have the materials for either, but I'm leaning towards the type shown in
> the Buckeye newsletter primarily because the assembly looks more durable and
> would allow removal of the different sections and spring should it be
> necessary. As Tony points out in his writing, "spring (C) and collar (B)
> must be slipped on to upper tube before welding lower (D) washer in place."
> Maybe I am worrying about a non-issue, but if the spring were to break, or
> if I just wanted to replace it with a softer or stiffer version, it looks
> like I'd have a lot of work to do in order to accomplish this. The Buckeye
> version looks like it can be completely disassembled for service or repair.
>
>
> Is my thinking correct? Can anyone provide an opinion on one over the
> other? I think that Tony's version is easier to construct, but I'm trying
> to look beyond the fabrication and consider maintenance and durability.
>
> Thanks!
>
>
> The Sportplane Builder - Pg. 255 - Tony Bingelis
>
>
> Buckeye Pietenpol Newsletter - Sy Debolt
>
>
> --------
> Mark Chouinard
> Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329355#329355
>
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Steel (spring) Type Landing Gear |
| From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
Rick, from your photos it looks like you built the Buckeye version. I'm not sure
which is actually stronger, but with a longer inner tube and outer sleeve to
carry the load of the spring I thought it might offer better durability/maintainability.
Sounds and looks like the way to go. Thanks for the photos.
Thanks to you too Jim! I hope you and yours are keeping warm way up there in Collinsville.
Can you believe this snow? A good opportunity to forget about work
and other to-dos and just study my airplane a bit.
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329376#329376
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Steel (spring) Type Landing Gear |
| From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
It is in my original message Rick. The first image is Tony's version and the second
is the Buckeye version... same as the drawing that you posted.
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329380#329380
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Steel (spring) Type Landing Gear |
| From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
Rick, I just realized that you might be viewing these messages in e-mail format.
I only receive the daily digest via e-mail for record, but never communicate
that way. I use the web version because I find it a little more functional,
but I embed my images rather than attach, so they may not come through to e-mail
users... not sure. I guess I'll see how it looks when I get the digest tonight.
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329382#329382
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Steel (spring) Type Landing Gear |
| From: | Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
Interesting, I built the buckeye version and didn't know it, I don't see how
I could swap out springs though without cutting off one end and re-welding.
On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 5:37 PM, K5YAC wrote:
>
> It is in my original message Rick. The first image is Tony's version and
> the second is the Buckeye version... same as the drawing that you posted.
>
> --------
> Mark Chouinard
> Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329380#329380
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Steel (spring) Type Landing Gear |
| From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
To me, it looks like removing the bolt would allow all the tubes to slide apart...
correct?
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329387#329387
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wire Wheel Build-up |
| From: | Kenneth Bickers <bickers.ken(at)gmail.com> |
Mark,
One word of warning about Robert Baslee and Airdrome Aeroplanes. I bought
my wheels from him, but he never delivered on the tubes and tires. I
emailed, called, emailed, called. At first, he told me they would be coming
in a separate shipment, then after repeated efforts to get him to send them,
he quit responding all together. I'll say this, the hubs and wheels look
beautiful. But the hubs are not straight enough to just bolt brakes to,
even though he indicated they would be. The cost of coming up with an
option to fix that isn't trivial. Worse, I'm not sure, and won't be until
the aircraft is moving, whether my solution solves that problem. And I
ended up buying tubes and tires from a motorcycle website and having a local
motorcycle shop mount them for me. That added to the cost even more. If I
had the option to replay history, I wouldn't have dealt with Baslee. Your
mileage might differ and I'm sure others have had good experiences with him,
but that was my experience.
My best, Ken
On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 4:07 PM, Robert Gow wrote:
> >
>
> I bought the hubs from them and had a motorcycle shop in California put on
> larger rims (21 inch I think) and had them shipped here. Total cost about
> the same. The local copper shop had some tyres with minimal tread the
> look nice on them.
>
> http://www.buchananspokes.net/contact/contact_us.asp
>
>
> If anybody is interested I have a full set of ribs for the classic
> Pietenpol 3 piece wing.
>
> Bob
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of K5YAC
> Sent: February 2, 2011 5:55 PM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wire Wheel Build-up
>
>
> Bill Church wrote:
> > Another option is the wheel kit offered by Airdrome Aeroplanes.About
> $500 for a pair of wheels, including wide hubs, tires and tubes.They look
> pretty good.
>
>
> I've pretty much got my heart set on a pair of these. They are a bit
> heavier than Michael's rims, but I've heard good things and I like the
> looks of them.
>
> --------
> Mark Chouinard
> Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329357#329357
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wire Wheel Build-up |
| From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
Darn Ken, sounds like a possible Dillsburg Aero experience in the works. Thanks
for the information, I've printed your post for my notes and will definitely
question him on these items before I commit. No, I won't mention your name.
On the other hand, Roger White offered me a set of wide hubs last year. I might
ask if he still has them, and if so maybe I can take another look at them.
The wheels were so far off my radar when he asked I really didn't give it much
thought at the time, I just said that I didn't think I'd need em. He is a super
guy, but I didn't want to take stuff just because he was offering. So far
I haven't taken anything from these folks around here unless I really intend
to use it, and several have offered a lot.
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329391#329391
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Steel (spring) Type Landing Gear |
| From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
Alright, well I still like it better than the other design. I better research
my spring choice before I commit.
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329395#329395
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ray Krause" <raykrause(at)frontiernet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: entry step and does anybody have a spare... |
Thanks, Jack. So you will have a difficult time getting any brackets
off in the future? Guess you won't need to take them off, unless an
untimely event takes place. You never need to tighten the hardware, as
you do with prop bolts on a wooden prop....as when the weather changes?
Gee, the Pietenpols are easier than I thought. Guess I should not think
so hard!
Thanks again.
Ray Krause
----- Original Message -----
From: Jack Phillips
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2011 3:42 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: entry step and does anybody have a
spare...
Ray,
The steps are under the fabric. Note the small strips of spruce at
the edge of the plywood in the pictures. This holds the fabric off the
plywood a bit (about =BC") to help keep the fabric contours smooth. The
frabic goes over all the fittings, such as the landing gear/lfit strut
fittings as well. Fabric patches are then applied over all
protuberances where bolt heads are under the fabric to provide extra
reinforcement against chafing. And before the fabric is sinstalled,
anti-chafing tape is applied over any sharp projections beneath the
fabric.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Raleigh, NC
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ray
Krause
Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 11:19 PM
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: entry step and does anybody have a
spare...
Jack,
When you cover the fuselage, do the metal brackets end up under the
covering or over the covering? For example, in your picture, do you
remove all the brackets, cover, then replace the brackets over the
covering... making holes in the covering for the bolts and just pressing
the covering in against the wood? Do you taper that bottom "longeron"
around the brackets so the covering is closer to the wood side panel?
Beautiful work, by the way!
Thanks,
Ray Krause
Building Sky Scout in Colusa, CA
----- Original Message -----
From: Jack Phillips
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 9:25 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: entry step and does anybody have a
spare...
I wish I had thought of adding a step to help access the
centersection for refueling. It's amazing how many airports don't have
adequate ladders for their fuel trucks.
Here are a couple of pictures showing how I attached mine:
Here is the Front Step
Here's an out of focus picture showing how it is attached under the
floorboard.
Then here is the rear step:
And a picture showing it in place:
Good luck,
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Raleigh, NC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Dillsburg Redux |
I have been heading your warnings, since I purchased some Vogagalsong tubin
g last year.- I was working on cabanes for an aerobatic biplane, and luck
ily I had some old Summerhill tubing (US Made) that was 40+ yrs old.- I j
ust got done (30 mins ago) making some welds with the Dillsburg stuff for r
udder pedals.- I might just do some DESTRUCTIVE TESTING, to see hoe it ho
lds up.- I did notice the ATSM spec on the tubing, but nowhere was there
a MIL_SPEC number inked on the tubing.- It might be for secondary structu
res only, But.. I remember a "Balled up", radial powered JR Ace project, as
a result of a rudder pedal failure, so be careful out there.
-
Shad
Black bugers are normal when your welding......right??=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "JohnC" <jcalvert(at)trinityvideo.net> |
Hey Jeff, Were is this lumber yard you speak of?
John Calvert
--------
I just hope when it's my turn to reach up and touch the face of God, I don't poke
him in the eye on accident.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329409#329409
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: entry step and does anybody have a spare... |
| From: | "kevinpurtee" <kevin.purtee(at)us.army.mil> |
Hi Ray - I'm sure Jack will answer but I'll throw in my thoughts. Those permanent fixtures are just that, permanent. The vast majority of builders cover them as Jack has. Take a look at www.westcoastpiet.com at the dozens of close-up photos there, including Jack's beautiful airplane. If you end up having to access covered fittings then yes, you're responding to a significant issue of some sort. We don't routinely "snug" structural bolts under fabric.
If you do have to get to a covered bolt to do work, you cut the fabric, do the
work, and then make your patch per the instructions you'll get with whatever covering
system you use. The fabric portion of those repairs would likely be completed
in an afternoon.
Best regards,
Kevin
--------
Kevin "Axel" Purtee
NX899KP
Austin/Georgetown, TX
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329411#329411
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol near Olive Branch, MS? |
| From: | "kevinpurtee" <kevin.purtee(at)us.army.mil> |
If you're anywhere near Austin when you get to TX this fall yell at me. I'll hook
you up, too.
--------
Kevin "Axel" Purtee
NX899KP
Austin/Georgetown, TX
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329413#329413
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ray Krause" <raykrause(at)frontiernet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wire Wheel Build-up |
Michael,
Thanks for the info. I assume the rims are aluminum and the spokes are
stainless? Double wall rims? I will weigh mine tomorrow. I think they
weigh more and they are chromed metal.
Thanks,
Ray Krause
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Perez
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2011 1:22 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wire Wheel Build-up
Each complete wheel assembly you see in the picture, (21" X
2.15" rim, 40 spokes, 40 nipples, hub) weighs 9 pounds.
Michael Perez
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Clif Dawson" <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Dillsburg Redux |
http://www.ultralightfloats.com/Float_plans.htm
Clif
>
> The good news is that if I get good enough welding this crap, I might just
> weld up a steel Piet fuselage with float fittings. Murphy or somebody
> makes a float kit that would work well in our gross weight category and
> there's Lotus...
>
> Dave
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: entry step and does anybody have a spare... |
Well said, Kevin.
As for your comment that such a repair could be completed in an afternoon,
that is true if the covering finish was dope or PolyTone, which can be wiped
off with a rag soked in MEK. If painted with latex or Polyurethane, the
paint must be sanded off and that takes a loooooong time (ask me how I
know!)
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Raleigh, NC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of kevinpurtee
Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2011 11:08 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: entry step and does anybody have a spare...
Hi Ray - I'm sure Jack will answer but I'll throw in my thoughts. Those
permanent fixtures are just that, permanent. The vast majority of builders
cover them as Jack has. Take a look at www.westcoastpiet.com at the dozens
of close-up photos there, including Jack's beautiful airplane. If you end
up having to access covered fittings then yes, you're responding to a
significant issue of some sort. We don't routinely "snug" structural bolts
under fabric.
If you do have to get to a covered bolt to do work, you cut the fabric, do
the work, and then make your patch per the instructions you'll get with
whatever covering system you use. The fabric portion of those repairs would
likely be completed in an afternoon.
Best regards,
Kevin
--------
Kevin "Axel" Purtee
NX899KP
Austin/Georgetown, TX
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329411#329411
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "bender" <jfaith(at)solairusaviation.com> |
Thanks.... thats what i thought would be the best too..
planing boards tomorrow
the lumber yard is Koetter Lumber
they are a mill and drying wholesale lumber company.... i just got lucky enough
to know someone that knows someone..
i went along to see the four boards they pulled but was told not to say anything
about them being for me....
there is another place called Long and Wide lumber... the owner also works, or
worked at Koetter and can get wood from them.. PC lumber in New Albany says they
can order from Koetter and they are a retail store.
not sure I could use up my contact to much... but maybe ?
jeff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329441#329441
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | "accepted inconsistancies" poly fiber pricing |
The info below is pasted from the Poly Fiber FAQ section. While this
certainly includes fabric, tapes etc, based on the now $70 or more per
gallon price of Poly Fiber products, I'll bet it would come in "around"
$1500, give or take.
Of these systems, which is cheaper?
How much will it cost to cover my plane?
If you got a price quote on each of the three systems, you'd see that they
all total about the same. Only the cost per can is different. For instance,
dope costs about $35.00 a gallon, Poly-Fiber is about $60.00 a gallon, but
you need twice as much dope as Poly-Fiber. The urethanes can get as high as
$200.00 including catalyst and flex agents. Here you use fewer gallons, but
at a much higher price.
No matter which system you use, the final cost for the fabric, tapes,
coatings and paint is about the same.
Cub sized airplanes will cost $2,500 to $3,000, depending on the color you
choose.
Ultralights run about $500 to $1,000 on average.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | wire wheel weights |
A few years back, I weighed a few wire wheels that were at Brodhead, plus
I'm on my third set (don't ask) myself. 16 to 18 lbs seems the norm without
the brake assembly, just the wheel, tube and tire.
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wire Wheel Build-up |
Here is some more detail on my wheels. (As I see this is becoming a hot top
ic.)- My rims, as stated, are 21" X 2.15". The actual rim width measured
at the edge of the rim is 3.00". The 2.15", I believe, is down inside the r
im where the tire bead lays. (I have not verified this.) The rims are alumi
num as are the nipples. The spokes are SS. As you may have noticed, I did n
ot opt. to have anything polished. (I even preferred the spokes to be dull,
but they are what they are.) Highly polished rims/nipples won't match the
look my plane will have. I MAY try to dull the spokes with some sanding...
My hubs are all SS. Flanges are 3/16" thick and the tube is 1.5" SS tube. T
he ID of the tube needed to be machined larger ever so slightly to accept t
he bronze bushings. (Press fit)- The overall hub width is 6.0"- Kennie
recommended going no smaller then 6" for strength purposes for cross-wind l
andings.
As noted, Kennie was fantastic, customer service of the likes which is rare
in today's age. That alone was worth some $$ to me...and well spent.
You can have any of their Sun rims drilled to any number of holes and you m
ay have anything polished to a chrome like finish...all of which will cost
you more money.
Michael Perez
=0AKaretaker Aero
=0Awww.karetakeraero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Covering Processes |
| From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
Wow... these darn snow days are becoming very educational. I didn't want to hijack
Douwe's discussion on the cost of covering, but since the topic is being
discussed, I have a few questions.
I honestly haven't done much research on covering materials. I've made comments
to others like "I'm going to use the Stewart System and latex paint", but I
really don't know what I'm talking about where these materials or processes are
concerned. Polyfiber, Ceconite and Dacron are all fabrics, right? Are there
more? I have heard that MEK is nasty stuff, which is a key ingredient in at
least one of the processes. I know there is also a need for a respirator with
some of this stuff, so I've been leaning towards the Stewart System since I've
got a 6 year old hanging around me most of the time. Same goes for latex paint,
I've heard that it is not only cheaper, but easier to apply and people have
got good mileage from using it. Someone on here has had a panel hanging on
a fence post for several years, right?
The only information I've got on covering is the Stewart System DVDs, which are
nicely done and make the process seem very straightforward. There is an outfit
in Arkansas (Aircraft Fabric & Finishes I believe) that came to our EAA hangar
for a covering workshop a few years ago, but I missed it. Some were talking
about having them back... perhaps we'll be able to arrange that this year...
you listening Mr. Markle?
Perhaps someone can point me (and others) to a more comprehensive comparison of
these products and processes. I know that the search feature is available, but
not knowing the difference between a fabric or a process it becomes difficult
to make sense of the different topics that might be found. Having a little
better base of information would probably go a long way in understanding some
of these covering discussions. Perhaps there is an "intro to covering" write
up out there that covers the different fabrics and processes for those of us
that have never done this stuff?
Thanks!
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329449#329449
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ben Charvet <bencharvet(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: "accepted inconsistancies" poly fiber pricing |
Or, you could use the latex method using Stewart system glue, like Gary
Bell, me and others have and come in under $1000....with no fumes at all.
Ben Charvet
On 2/3/2011 9:30 AM, Douwe Blumberg wrote:
>
> *The info below is pasted from the Poly Fiber FAQ section. While this
> certainly includes fabric, tapes etc, based on the now $70 or more per
> gallon price of Poly Fiber products, I'll bet it would come in
> "around" $1500, give or take.*
>
> **
>
> *Of these systems, which is cheaper?
> How much will it cost to cover my plane?*
>
> If you got a price quote on each of the three systems, you'd see
> that*they all total about the same*. Only the cost per can is
> different. For instance, dope costs about $35.00 a gallon, Poly-Fiber
> is about $60.00 a gallon, but*you need twice as much dope as
> Poly-Fiber*. The urethanes can get as high as $200.00 including
> catalyst and flex agents. Here you use fewer gallons, but at a much
> higher price.
>
> No matter which system you use, the final cost for the fabric, tapes,
> coatings and paint is about the same.
>
> *Cub sized airplanes*will cost*$2,500 to $3,000*, depending on the
> color you choose.
>
> *Ultralights*run about*$500 to $1,000*on average.
>
> *
>
>
> *
--
Ben Charvet, PharmD
Staff Pharmacist
Parrish Medical center
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol near Olive Branch, MS? |
| From: | "chase143(at)aol.com" <chase143(at)aol.com> |
Hello John,
Good luck in all your pursuits. You didnt list your contact info, so I am passing
you contact info (with permission) of a guy with worlds of information on several
fronts. Thousands of hours in homebuilt aircraft, airline captain, and
he heads up the Fly for Life missionary organization at Oshkosh each year. Feel
free to give him a shout out: smokyray(at)rocketmail.com
And good luck with the Piet!
Steve
--------
Steve
www.mypiet.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329459#329459
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | V Groah <vgroah(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Covering Processes |
We are going to do the fabric very soon. We got the price from Aircraft Sp
ruce for the materials then took those prices to a local supplier at our lo
cal air port. I asked them if they could be competitive price wise item fo
r item. They bid the materials at a lower price than Aircraft Spruce and t
hey pick up the shipping. The shipping on hazardous materials like paint i
s a real consideration. You might try your local guys.
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Covering Processes
> From: hangar10(at)cox.net
> Date: Thu=2C 3 Feb 2011 08:01:52 -0800
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>
>
> Wow... these darn snow days are becoming very educational. I didn't want
to hijack Douwe's discussion on the cost of covering=2C but since the topic
is being discussed=2C I have a few questions.
>
> I honestly haven't done much research on covering materials. I've made co
mments to others like "I'm going to use the Stewart System and latex paint"
=2C but I really don't know what I'm talking about where these materials or
processes are concerned. Polyfiber=2C Ceconite and Dacron are all fabrics
=2C right? Are there more? I have heard that MEK is nasty stuff=2C which is
a key ingredient in at least one of the processes. I know there is also a
need for a respirator with some of this stuff=2C so I've been leaning towar
ds the Stewart System since I've got a 6 year old hanging around me most of
the time. Same goes for latex paint=2C I've heard that it is not only chea
per=2C but easier to apply and people have got good mileage from using it.
Someone on here has had a panel hanging on a fence post for several years
=2C right?
>
> The only information I've got on covering is the Stewart System DVDs=2C w
hich are nicely done and make the process seem very straightforward. There
is an outfit in Arkansas (Aircraft Fabric & Finishes I believe) that came t
o our EAA hangar for a covering workshop a few years ago=2C but I missed it
. Some were talking about having them back... perhaps we'll be able to arra
nge that this year... you listening Mr. Markle?
>
> Perhaps someone can point me (and others) to a more comprehensive compari
son of these products and processes. I know that the search feature is avai
lable=2C but not knowing the difference between a fabric or a process it be
comes difficult to make sense of the different topics that might be found.
Having a little better base of information would probably go a long way in
understanding some of these covering discussions. Perhaps there is an "intr
o to covering" write up out there that covers the different fabrics and pro
cesses for those of us that have never done this stuff?
>
> Thanks!
>
> --------
> Mark Chouinard
> Wings=2C Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
>
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329449#329449
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | V Groah <vgroah(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | "accepted inconsistancies" poly fiber pricing |
We are using poly fiber and took the prices from aircraft spruce to our loc
al airport parts guy. We asked if he could be competitive. He bid cheaper
on every item and will pick up the shipping. You might try that. It will
save a few bucks. Vic
Date: Thu=2C 3 Feb 2011 11:51:22 -0500
From: bencharvet(at)gmail.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: "accepted inconsistancies" poly fiber pricing
Or=2C you could use the latex method using Stewart system glue=2C like Gary
Bell=2C me and others have and come in under $1000....with no fumes at all
.
Ben Charvet
On 2/3/2011 9:30 AM=2C Douwe Blumberg wrote:
The info below is pasted from the Poly Fiber FAQ section. While this certa
inly includes fabric=2C tapes etc=2C based on the now $70 or more per gallo
n price of Poly Fiber products=2C I=92ll bet it would come in =93around=94
$1500=2C give or take.
Of these systems=2C which is cheaper?
How much will it cost to cover my plane?
If you got a price quote on each of the three systems=2C you'd see that the
y all total about the same. Only the cost per can is different. For instanc
e=2C dope costs about $35.00 a gallon=2C Poly-Fiber is about $60.00 a gallo
n=2C but you need twice as much dope as Poly-Fiber. The urethanes can get a
s high as $200.00 including catalyst and flex agents. Here you use fewer ga
llons=2C but at a much higher price.
No matter which system you use=2C the final cost for the fabric=2C tapes=2C
coatings and paint is about the same.
Cub sized airplanes will cost $2=2C500 to $3=2C000=2C depending on the colo
r you choose.
Ultralights run about $500 to $1=2C000 on average.
--
Ben Charvet=2C PharmD
Staff Pharmacist
Parrish Medical center
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | keeping costs down, and NX799B progress |
I heartily concur with what has been mentioned earlier regarding shipping.
Shipping really adds up over time to the point that it'll really surprise
you.
If you're wanting to be as frugal as possible, try hard to order large
batches of stuff at once, rather than two an3 bolts because you ran out, or
another quart of reducer, or six inches of hose, or, or , or, or. I've
found it difficult, if not impossible for me (being a first time builder) to
predict exactly what I'll need, so even though I try hard to get everything
into a big order, I invariably items out which I then MUST have the
following week, making UPS my biggest fan.
Finally getting some traction out here. Cowling and new grill coming along
nicely (will send pics when a bit further) and new wheels/brakes and landing
gear almost done and working out very nicely. This is my third set of
wheels I've built, second one with brakes. First set had one wheels torqued
in the accident, so new ones were in order. Because they're inconspicuous,
I like a drum brake with the hub built internally into the wire wheel.
First time 'round I used go cart bakes as some others have, but after some
more searching, I found some brakes from golf carts which are very nicely
made, larger and sturdier than the others, and so far they're working out
nicely. Like all drum brakes with large wire wheels, they will most likely
be underpowered, but that's good since everybody's gears are now too far
back. :o Did a cool thing which I'm also really happy with. The flat
backrest really became uncomfortable after twenty minutes of flying around
my shop, so I cut out a 15" square and replaced it with a carbon fiber piece
that has a contour in it. In the deepest point, it protrudes behind the
bulkhead about 1.5", so it'll move the CG back a tiny bit, but being only
150 lbs, I'm not worried, and the difference is huge. I did the same with
my seat bottom to drop me down into the pit more and to try to match the
contour of my bottom.
$ .02
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: keeping costs down, and NX799B progress |
| From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
I agree Douwe. Although I've got a long way to go, I know that I've already spent
several hundred dollars on shipping items (including two freight trucks).
Aside from planning ahead in order to get as much as possible on each order, one
of the more helpful things that many have mentioned is the "Bag of Spruce".
I ordered this early in my project and I'm glad that I did... I've used these
scraps several times. Another thing that I would like to recommend to anyone
starting out in this hobby from scratch (as I did) is a "Homebuilders Hardware
Kit", or something similar. Having this selection of common hardware has saved
me a lot of guesswork when mounting fasteners. Of course, taking accurate
measurements helps when planing assemblies, but sometimes it is nice to hold
stuff in your hand and know that it will fit/work. This also keeps me from ordering
a handful of nuts and bolts as I need them. As I use stuff up I can just
replenish my stock when I place an order for other things, not ever time I
need a fastener.
I'm fortunate that there is a lot of hardware, tools, materials and knowledge readily
available at my field and in the Tulsa area, but I can see how these little
things can really start to rack up for people who are in more remote locations,
and even for myself when I fail to plan properly.
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329477#329477
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | keeping costs down, and NX799B progress |
Douwe,
Could you post some pictures of the back rest you described below??
Thanks.
Brian
SLC-UT
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Douwe
Blumberg
Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2011 11:49 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: keeping costs down, and NX799B progress
I heartily concur with what has been mentioned earlier regarding
shipping. Shipping really adds up over time to the point that it'll
really surprise you.
If you're wanting to be as frugal as possible, try hard to order large
batches of stuff at once, rather than two an3 bolts because you ran out,
or another quart of reducer, or six inches of hose, or, or , or, or...
I've found it difficult, if not impossible for me (being a first time
builder) to predict exactly what I'll need, so even though I try hard to
get everything into a big order, I invariably items out which I then
MUST have the following week, making UPS my biggest fan.
Finally getting some traction out here. Cowling and new grill coming
along nicely (will send pics when a bit further) and new wheels/brakes
and landing gear almost done and working out very nicely. This is my
third set of wheels I've built, second one with brakes. First set had
one wheels torqued in the accident, so new ones were in order. Because
they're inconspicuous, I like a drum brake with the hub built internally
into the wire wheel. First time 'round I used go cart bakes as some
others have, but after some more searching, I found some brakes from
golf carts which are very nicely made, larger and sturdier than the
others, and so far they're working out nicely. Like all drum brakes
with large wire wheels, they will most likely be underpowered, but
that's good since everybody's gears are now too far back. :o Did a
cool thing which I'm also really happy with. The flat backrest really
became uncomfortable after twenty minutes of flying around my shop, so I
cut out a 15" square and replaced it with a carbon fiber piece that has
a contour in it. In the deepest point, it protrudes behind the bulkhead
about 1.5", so it'll move the CG back a tiny bit, but being only 150
lbs, I'm not worried, and the difference is huge. I did the same with
my seat bottom to drop me down into the pit more and to try to match the
contour of my bottom.
$ .02
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: keeping costs down, and NX799B progress |
| From: | "gtche98" <gtche98(at)gmail.com> |
Great point about a starter set of hardware. Does one exist? Various Google searches
have resulted in dubious results.
If none exist, is there any advice out there on what one would include (and quantities)
in such a set for the Piet?
--------
Gary Wilson
Greenville Wisconsin
gtche98 (at) gmail ((dot)) com
Planning Phase
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329485#329485
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: keeping costs down, and NX799B progress |
| From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
There are several hardware kits at various vendors. I purchased the Homebuilders
Hardware Kit from Aircraft Spruce. Go to the link and click on the "Assorted
Kits" link... there are many.
I purchased this one as I figured it would cover much of what I needed.
They also have this one, which is nearly 3 times as much and contains way more
than I'll probably need.
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329488#329488
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: keeping costs down, and NX799B progress |
| From: | Kenneth Bickers <bickers.ken(at)gmail.com> |
Another option is to wait until final assembly to buy and install AN
hardware. For now, I'm using inexpensive hardware store stuff -- to date,
I've probably paid close to $10 total on this stuff. One advantage is that
I can use the cheapy stuff to let me make a detailed inventory of the exact
lengths of AN that I'll need. I figure I can place one order for everything
I'll need when I know exactly what that will be. Cheers, Ken
On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 1:36 PM, K5YAC wrote:
>
> There are several hardware kits at various vendors. I purchased the
> Homebuilders Hardware Kit from Aircraft Spruce. Go to the link and click on
> the "Assorted Kits" link... there are many.
>
>
> I purchased this one as I figured it would cover much of what I needed.
>
>
> They also have this one, which is nearly 3 times as much and contains way
> more than I'll probably need.
>
>
> --------
> Mark Chouinard
> Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329488#329488
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KM Heide CPO/FAAOP <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Steel (spring) Type Landing Gear |
Rick,
If I send you my width dimensions, care to build me a set of gear legs?
....oh and under 50 bucks!
Ken H
--- On Wed, 2/2/11, Rick Holland wrote:
> From: Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Steel (spring) Type Landing Gear
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Wednesday, February 2, 2011, 5:30 PM
> I built spring gear using the Bengelis style
> design you mentioned (attached). You are correct, if I ever
> wanted a different spring I would pretty much have to build
> another set from scratch. If the other design is stronger
> and more modular why not go for it?
>
>
> rick
>
> On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at
> 3:48 PM, K5YAC
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> I'm contemplating my landing gear and I've found at
> least two options where spring style shock absorbers are
> concerned. One is from page 255 of Tony Bingelis'
> "The Sportplane Builder" and the other is from Sy
> Debolt as found in an old issue of the Buckeye Pietenpol
> Newsletter. I think the drawing may have been done by
> Frank Pavliga as it notes "Redrawn by FSP".
> Forgive me if I've goofed some of this information...
> just trying to give proper credit. Both are shown below.
>
>
>
>
> I have the materials for either, but I'm leaning
> towards the type shown in the Buckeye newsletter primarily
> because the assembly looks more durable and would allow
> removal of the different sections and spring should it be
> necessary. As Tony points out in his writing, "spring
> (C) and collar (B) must be slipped on to upper tube before
> welding lower (D) washer in place." Maybe I am
> worrying about a non-issue, but if the spring were to break,
> or if I just wanted to replace it with a softer or stiffer
> version, it looks like I'd have a lot of work to do in
> order to accomplish this. The Buckeye version looks like
> it can be completely disassembled for service or repair.
>
>
>
>
> Is my thinking correct? Can anyone provide an opinion on
> one over the other? I think that Tony's version is
> easier to construct, but I'm trying to look beyond the
> fabrication and consider maintenance and durability.
>
>
>
>
> Thanks!
>
>
>
>
>
> The Sportplane Builder - Pg. 255 - Tony Bingelis
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Buckeye Pietenpol Newsletter - Sy Debolt
>
>
>
>
>
> --------
>
> Mark Chouinard
>
> Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on
> Fuselage
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
>
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329355#329355
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ==========
>
> st"
> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>
> ==========
>
> http://forums.matronics.com
>
> ==========
>
> le, List Admin.
>
> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
> ==========
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Rick Holland
> Castle Rock, Colorado
>
> "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell
> bad"
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Steel (spring) Type Landing Gear |
| From: | Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
Sure Ken, $50 per HOUR.
rick
On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 3:01 PM, KM Heide CPO/FAAOP wrote:
> kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com>
>
> Rick,
>
> If I send you my width dimensions, care to build me a set of gear legs?
>
> ....oh and under 50 bucks!
>
> Ken H
>
>
> --- On Wed, 2/2/11, Rick Holland wrote:
>
> > From: Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
> > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Steel (spring) Type Landing Gear
> > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> > Date: Wednesday, February 2, 2011, 5:30 PM
> > I built spring gear using the Bengelis style
> > design you mentioned (attached). You are correct, if I ever
> > wanted a different spring I would pretty much have to build
> > another set from scratch. If the other design is stronger
> > and more modular why not go for it?
> >
> >
> > rick
> >
> > On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at
> > 3:48 PM, K5YAC
> > wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I'm contemplating my landing gear and I've found at
> > least two options where spring style shock absorbers are
> > concerned. One is from page 255 of Tony Bingelis'
> > "The Sportplane Builder" and the other is from Sy
> > Debolt as found in an old issue of the Buckeye Pietenpol
> > Newsletter. I think the drawing may have been done by
> > Frank Pavliga as it notes "Redrawn by FSP".
> > Forgive me if I've goofed some of this information...
> > just trying to give proper credit. Both are shown below.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I have the materials for either, but I'm leaning
> > towards the type shown in the Buckeye newsletter primarily
> > because the assembly looks more durable and would allow
> > removal of the different sections and spring should it be
> > necessary. As Tony points out in his writing, "spring
> > (C) and collar (B) must be slipped on to upper tube before
> > welding lower (D) washer in place." Maybe I am
> > worrying about a non-issue, but if the spring were to break,
> > or if I just wanted to replace it with a softer or stiffer
> > version, it looks like I'd have a lot of work to do in
> > order to accomplish this. The Buckeye version looks like
> > it can be completely disassembled for service or repair.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Is my thinking correct? Can anyone provide an opinion on
> > one over the other? I think that Tony's version is
> > easier to construct, but I'm trying to look beyond the
> > fabrication and consider maintenance and durability.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > The Sportplane Builder - Pg. 255 - Tony Bingelis
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Buckeye Pietenpol Newsletter - Sy Debolt
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --------
> >
> > Mark Chouinard
> >
> > Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on
> > Fuselage
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> >
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329355#329355
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ==========
> >
> > st"
> > target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> >
> > ==========
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com
> >
> > ==========
> >
> > le, List Admin.
> >
> > ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> >
> > ==========
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Rick Holland
> > Castle Rock, Colorado
> >
> > "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell
> > bad"
> >
> >
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Covering Processes |
| From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
5 years? Awesome!
Kevin Purtee offered me a quick lesson on covering offline. I was confusing the
materials and processes with trade names and visa versa. I'm sure there is
still plenty to figure out, but that helps me to understand some of the terms
that I hear and read about.
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329527#329527
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> |
| Subject: | Re: keeping costs down, and NX799B progress |
I don't know where you're buying your hardware store stuff, but you
can't do it here. I thought I'd try that route and the hardware store
charged more than A/S. I do my experimenting with the real thing.
----- Original Message -----
From: Kenneth Bickers
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2011 3:59 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: keeping costs down, and NX799B
progress
Another option is to wait until final assembly to buy and install AN
hardware. For now, I'm using inexpensive hardware store stuff -- to
date, I've probably paid close to $10 total on this stuff. One
advantage is that I can use the cheapy stuff to let me make a detailed
inventory of the exact lengths of AN that I'll need. I figure I can
place one order for everything I'll need when I know exactly what that
will be. Cheers, Ken
On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 1:36 PM, K5YAC wrote:
There are several hardware kits at various vendors. I purchased the
Homebuilders Hardware Kit from Aircraft Spruce. Go to the link and
click on the "Assorted Kits" link... there are many.
I purchased this one as I figured it would cover much of what I
needed.
They also have this one, which is nearly 3 times as much and
contains way more than I'll probably need.
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329488#329488
Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
s.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
ronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
Matt Dralle, List Admin.
====
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Covering Processes |
| From: | "Dangerous Dave" <dsornbor(at)aol.com> |
I have used the Stewart System and think its great.I used Ceconite fabric and all
the rest is Stewart.All of it has cost about 2200.The difference is about 1100
in paint.The reason I didn't go with housepaint is I plan on keeping the plane
for a long time and there is not much uv protection in housepaint Stewarts
has 100% protection and if done right will never need a recover even if left
outside.As to the other systems I've used them all
and would like to hang on to the 3 brain cells I have left.dave
--------
Covering Piet
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329530#329530
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TOM MICHELLE BRANT <tmbrant(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | leading edge plywood |
Maybe a stupid question but I can't figure it out (what's that say about me
??)
Where do you start the leading edge plywood from? If you start from the bo
ttom of the leading edge=2C how is it held in place while gluing - are nail
s used? Or do you start it from the top of the leading edge and sand it in
to the curve of the wing? I just don't see anything in the plans for this
.
Thanks=2C
Tom B.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Tunnicliffe" <zk-owl(at)CLEAR.NET.NZ> |
| Subject: | Re: Covering Processes |
Hi Dave, I believe the Dulux weathershield house paint I'm using has very
good UV protection, the test sample I put outside 2 years ago shows no sign
of fabric deterioration.
regards Mike T.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dangerous Dave" <dsornbor(at)aol.com>
Sent: Friday, February 04, 2011 3:00 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Covering Processes
>
> I have used the Stewart System and think its great.I used Ceconite fabric
> and all the rest is Stewart.All of it has cost about 2200.The difference
> is about 1100 in paint.The reason I didn't go with housepaint is I plan on
> keeping the plane for a long time and there is not much uv protection in
> housepaint Stewarts has 100% protection and if done right will never need
> a recover even if left outside.As to the other systems I've used them all
> and would like to hang on to the 3 brain cells I have left.dave
>
> --------
> Covering Piet
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329530#329530
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris" <catdesigns(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | leading edge plywood |
Tom
Near the bottom you will find several pictures of how I did the leading edge
ply.
http://westcoastpiet.com/images/Chris%20Tracy/Wings.htm
If you look closely you can see I overlapped the plywood onto the leading
edge into a recess I left for it. The leading edge (poplar) was finished to
shape after the plywood was installed.
Chris
Sacramento, Ca
Westcoastpiet.com
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of TOM MICHELLE
BRANT
Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2011 6:12 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: leading edge plywood
Maybe a stupid question but I can't figure it out (what's that say about
me??)
Where do you start the leading edge plywood from? If you start from the
bottom of the leading edge, how is it held in place while gluing - are nails
used? Or do you start it from the top of the leading edge and sand it into
the curve of the wing? I just don't see anything in the plans for this.
Thanks,
Tom B.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: leading edge plywood |
| From: | "pineymb" <airltd(at)mts.net> |
Tom basically what I did was sheared sections of 1/16 aircraft ply at about 9.5"
when installed flush with the back of the front spar the ply will be just back
of the arch of the leading edge profile. I stapled the front section with 1/4"
staples at about every inch or less. When glue is dry the staples were removed
and the leading edge sanded smooth to blend with the profile. Hope this helps
and is probably better illustrated by the attached photos.
--------
Adrian M
Winnipeg, MB
Canada
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329534#329534
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00381_107.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00376_697.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: leading edge plywood |
| From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
I installed 1/4" x 1/4" basswood backing strips with T-88. Removed the nails after
the glue set. This gave me something to glue and nail the LE material to.
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329540#329540
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gboothe5" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Covering Processes |
Not so fast, Dave! Your work is definitely exceptional, but I question the
statement that "... there is not much uv protection in housepaint...".
Almost all paints contain Titanium Dioxide...the same Titanium Dioxide used
in sun block. House paints would have to block UV if they were to protect
wood. Benjamin Moore Exterior Aura brand paints describe their UV protection
as "Extreme."
Rhetorical question - How long should one leave the fabric on a wood framed
airplane, no matter what dope/paint is used?
Gary Boothe
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dangerous
Dave
Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2011 6:00 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Covering Processes
I have used the Stewart System and think its great.I used Ceconite fabric
and all the rest is Stewart.All of it has cost about 2200.The difference is
about 1100 in paint.The reason I didn't go with housepaint is I plan on
keeping the plane for a long time and there is not much uv protection in
housepaint Stewarts has 100% protection and if done right will never need a
recover even if left outside.As to the other systems I've used them all
and would like to hang on to the 3 brain cells I have left.dave
--------
Covering Piet
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329530#329530
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ray Krause" <raykrause(at)frontiernet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: entry step and does anybody have a spare... |
Thanks, Kevin. That will make my life easier when it comes time to cover
the fuselage. I will study the Westcoast Piet site before I do anything.
Nice to know the fittings do not need to be snugged up after construction.
Thanks for the help. Also thanks to Jack for his reply. The wheels I have
are 19X2.5 and weight 12 lbs each WITHOUT the tire and tube. the poor old
Sky Scout would end up either very nose heavy, or earth bound!
Thanks again.
Ray Krause
----- Original Message -----
From: "kevinpurtee" <kevin.purtee(at)us.army.mil>
Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2011 8:08 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: entry step and does anybody have a spare...
>
>
> Hi Ray - I'm sure Jack will answer but I'll throw in my thoughts. Those
> permanent fixtures are just that, permanent. The vast majority of
> builders cover them as Jack has. Take a look at www.westcoastpiet.com at
> the dozens of close-up photos there, including Jack's beautiful airplane.
> If you end up having to access covered fittings then yes, you're
> responding to a significant issue of some sort. We don't routinely "snug"
> structural bolts under fabric.
>
> If you do have to get to a covered bolt to do work, you cut the fabric, do
> the work, and then make your patch per the instructions you'll get with
> whatever covering system you use. The fabric portion of those repairs
> would likely be completed in an afternoon.
>
> Best regards,
> Kevin
>
> --------
> Kevin "Axel" Purtee
> NX899KP
> Austin/Georgetown, TX
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329411#329411
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ray Krause" <raykrause(at)frontiernet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: wire wheel weights |
I measured and weighed my wheel today. It is a 19 X 2.5 wheel, steel,
chrome plated with very heavy spokes (either stainless or chromed, did
not check), the axle hole diameter is 1.25" with nice brass bushings.
The hub is 7.5" wide. The wide hub plate is at least 6" in diameter
with 4 holes in each side..... would take a brake nicely. The only
problem is, each weighs 11.5 lbs without the tires and tubes! They look
expensive!
I think these would be way too heavy for the Scout, right? Maybe I
could find some aluminum rims for the hubs? Forty spokes, 3 cross
pattern.
Thanks,
Ray Krause
----- Original Message -----
From: Douwe Blumberg
To: pietenpolgroup
Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2011 6:37 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: wire wheel weights
A few years back, I weighed a few wire wheels that were at Brodhead,
plus I'm on my third set (don't ask) myself. 16 to 18 lbs seems the
norm without the brake assembly, just the wheel, tube and tire.
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Covering Processes |
| From: | "Dangerous Dave" <dsornbor(at)aol.com> |
Gary,The point I'm trying to make is that it takes 3 cross coats of Eco Fill to
give the fabric full protection,then the 4 coats of paint for a finish.It has
a scientifically proven UV rating.House paint has UV protection also but how
many coats do you need to get to the 100% protection,probably 3 crosscoats thats
6 actual coats,does anyone put on that much and what are the weight penalties.Can't
help it, its the anal A&P in me.The one thing I have noticed with the
house paint finishes that I have seen is that you can see the weave of the fabric
through the paint indicating there's only 2 coats.And do you wet the fabric
before painting to get maximum adhesion?dave
--------
Covering Piet
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329553#329553
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gboothe5" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Covering Processes |
Certainly apples vs. oranges. As you may have noticed on the Bell Piet, they
went to great length to give the fabric a weave look as in old linen. I have
not investigated Sears Weatherbeater paint, or any other brand other than
Benjamin Moore, as I have locked in on the Aura line from BM, a zero VOC
paint. Their data sheet advertises never more than 2 coats for full coverage
and protection, including wind driven rain. As an A&P myself, I fully
respect your background and perspective, but can't help being intrigued by
out-of-the-box thinking...just want to keep the facts straight.
Gary
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dangerous
Dave
Sent: Friday, February 04, 2011 4:12 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Covering Processes
Gary,The point I'm trying to make is that it takes 3 cross coats of Eco Fill
to give the fabric full protection,then the 4 coats of paint for a finish.It
has a scientifically proven UV rating.House paint has UV protection also but
how many coats do you need to get to the 100% protection,probably 3
crosscoats thats 6 actual coats,does anyone put on that much and what are
the weight penalties.Can't help it, its the anal A&P in me.The one thing I
have noticed with the house paint finishes that I have seen is that you can
see the weave of the fabric through the paint indicating there's only 2
coats.And do you wet the fabric before painting to get maximum adhesion?dave
--------
Covering Piet
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329553#329553
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Covering Processes |
I'm just throwing this out to "stir the pot" and encourage flaming emails...
I know there have been some quasi-scientific studies on UV protection from
house paint, but has anyone ever compared the weight of fabric finished with
house-paint versus other finishes? I know whatever the finish, it can't be
as heavy as the polyurethane (PolyFiber's Aerothane) that I used.
There are (at least) 6 factors to weigh when choosing a finish:
1. Durability. Here, nothing can touch polyurethane. The stuff is
bulletproof - so much so that the only way to remove it for repair is to
sand it off. House paint is a big unknown here, unless you use the same
formulation as is already flying on someone's airplane. It is one thing to
be durable on a house, but fabric flexes and drums in flight and the pain
must be able to flex with it. Housepaint in general is not designed to do
this, and static tests such as painting a panel and leaving it out in the
sun doesn't necessarily measure this. Dope and PolyTone (and presumably the
Stewart System) are all designed to be flexible and have good durability.
2. Weight. Here I think butyrate dope has the edge, but I have no data to
prove this. I know two part paints like polyurethane don't lose much weight
as they cure, and I don't think latex does either. It would be interesting
to do a test such as this, comparing dope, latex, polyurethane, the Stewart
system, and PolyTone.
3. Final Finish. Polyurethane tops the list here, if you want a shiny, wet
look finish that you can see yourself in. For a duller finish, dope or
PolyTone makes a very snice, smooth finish. I have not seen a Stewart
Systems paint job that I know of. The latex paint jobs I've seen have not
impressed me with the finish.
4. Cost. As I understand it, the costs are ranked from cheapest to most
expensive as follows: Latex, Dope, Stewart, PolyTone, Polyurethane.
5. Ease of Application. Nothing could be easier than rolling on a coat of
house paint, but the end result will look like rolled on house paint.
Sprayed latex is more trouble, but still doesn't have much in the way of
VOCs. Next is probably the Stewart System, with its water based paint. Then
would be dope and PolyTone, with polyurethane the most trouble to paint and
the most dangerous, requiring a full face mask with supplied air due to the
toxic gases generated as it cures.
6. Ease of Repair. Don't think you won't ever have to repair the fabric on
your Pietenpol. As the saying goes "Feces Occurs". The easiest system to
repair is PolyTone, since you can just wipe the repair area with a rag
soaked in MEK and the finish wipes right off. Dope is nearly as easy. I
don't know enough about the Stewart System to know how to repair it. Latex
and polyurethane must be sanded off and that is very difficult to do without
going too far and damaging the underlying fabric.
Having laid all this out, I can only comment from experience in all six of
these areas with polyurethane, and my comment there is that I would not use
it again. It is very difficult to apply without getting a lot of
orange-peel (at least for me), it is EXTREMELY difficult to repair, it is
very expensive and it is very heavy. The only thing good about it is it's
extremely durable and it looks good. Next time I would use the PolyFiber
system with PolyTone paint.
Let the flames begin.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Raleigh, NC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gboothe5
Sent: Friday, February 04, 2011 8:41 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Covering Processes
Certainly apples vs. oranges. As you may have noticed on the Bell Piet, they
went to great length to give the fabric a weave look as in old linen. I have
not investigated Sears Weatherbeater paint, or any other brand other than
Benjamin Moore, as I have locked in on the Aura line from BM, a zero VOC
paint. Their data sheet advertises never more than 2 coats for full coverage
and protection, including wind driven rain. As an A&P myself, I fully
respect your background and perspective, but can't help being intrigued by
out-of-the-box thinking...just want to keep the facts straight.
Gary
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dangerous
Dave
Sent: Friday, February 04, 2011 4:12 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Covering Processes
Gary,The point I'm trying to make is that it takes 3 cross coats of Eco Fill
to give the fabric full protection,then the 4 coats of paint for a finish.It
has a scientifically proven UV rating.House paint has UV protection also but
how many coats do you need to get to the 100% protection,probably 3
crosscoats thats 6 actual coats,does anyone put on that much and what are
the weight penalties.Can't help it, its the anal A&P in me.The one thing I
have noticed with the house paint finishes that I have seen is that you can
see the weave of the fabric through the paint indicating there's only 2
coats.And do you wet the fabric before painting to get maximum adhesion?dave
--------
Covering Piet
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329553#329553
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gboothe5" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Covering Processes |
Jack,
Just some thoughts:
Durability. Is it possible to have it both ways? You state that nothing can
touch polyurethane, but then continue to point out that Latex (and
polyurethane) must be sanded off. That sounds pretty tough.
Weight. Benjamin Moore Aura paints have 46% solids. Not being an educated
person, that tells me that 54% of the weight will evaporate.
Flexibility. Almost all paints are subjected to some sort of flexibility
test. The BM Aura brand paints are tested to ASTM D522.a conical test that
shows the product's ability to stay bonded to a substrate as the substrate
is bent around a cone.
No flames here.just facts.
Again, I ask the rhetorical question: How long should a fabric and paint
application last on a wood framed aircraft, before it is removed to merely
inspect the frame? I've been told 10 years is appropriate.
Gary
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack
Phillips
Sent: Friday, February 04, 2011 6:35 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Covering Processes
I'm just throwing this out to "stir the pot" and encourage flaming emails...
I know there have been some quasi-scientific studies on UV protection from
house paint, but has anyone ever compared the weight of fabric finished with
house-paint versus other finishes? I know whatever the finish, it can't be
as heavy as the polyurethane (PolyFiber's Aerothane) that I used.
There are (at least) 6 factors to weigh when choosing a finish:
1. Durability. Here, nothing can touch polyurethane. The stuff is
bulletproof - so much so that the only way to remove it for repair is to
sand it off. House paint is a big unknown here, unless you use the same
formulation as is already flying on someone's airplane. It is one thing to
be durable on a house, but fabric flexes and drums in flight and the pain
must be able to flex with it. Housepaint in general is not designed to do
this, and static tests such as painting a panel and leaving it out in the
sun doesn't necessarily measure this. Dope and PolyTone (and presumably the
Stewart System) are all designed to be flexible and have good durability.
2. Weight. Here I think butyrate dope has the edge, but I have no data to
prove this. I know two part paints like polyurethane don't lose much weight
as they cure, and I don't think latex does either. It would be interesting
to do a test such as this, comparing dope, latex, polyurethane, the Stewart
system, and PolyTone.
3. Final Finish. Polyurethane tops the list here, if you want a shiny, wet
look finish that you can see yourself in. For a duller finish, dope or
PolyTone makes a very snice, smooth finish. I have not seen a Stewart
Systems paint job that I know of. The latex paint jobs I've seen have not
impressed me with the finish.
4. Cost. As I understand it, the costs are ranked from cheapest to most
expensive as follows: Latex, Dope, Stewart, PolyTone, Polyurethane.
5. Ease of Application. Nothing could be easier than rolling on a coat of
house paint, but the end result will look like rolled on house paint.
Sprayed latex is more trouble, but still doesn't have much in the way of
VOCs. Next is probably the Stewart System, with its water based paint. Then
would be dope and PolyTone, with polyurethane the most trouble to paint and
the most dangerous, requiring a full face mask with supplied air due to the
toxic gases generated as it cures.
6. Ease of Repair. Don't think you won't ever have to repair the fabric on
your Pietenpol. As the saying goes "Feces Occurs". The easiest system to
repair is PolyTone, since you can just wipe the repair area with a rag
soaked in MEK and the finish wipes right off. Dope is nearly as easy. I
don't know enough about the Stewart System to know how to repair it. Latex
and polyurethane must be sanded off and that is very difficult to do without
going too far and damaging the underlying fabric.
Having laid all this out, I can only comment from experience in all six of
these areas with polyurethane, and my comment there is that I would not use
it again. It is very difficult to apply without getting a lot of
orange-peel (at least for me), it is EXTREMELY difficult to repair, it is
very expensive and it is very heavy. The only thing good about it is it's
extremely durable and it looks good. Next time I would use the PolyFiber
system with PolyTone paint.
Let the flames begin.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Raleigh, NC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gboothe5
Sent: Friday, February 04, 2011 8:41 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Covering Processes
Certainly apples vs. oranges. As you may have noticed on the Bell Piet, they
went to great length to give the fabric a weave look as in old linen. I have
not investigated Sears Weatherbeater paint, or any other brand other than
Benjamin Moore, as I have locked in on the Aura line from BM, a zero VOC
paint. Their data sheet advertises never more than 2 coats for full coverage
and protection, including wind driven rain. As an A&P myself, I fully
respect your background and perspective, but can't help being intrigued by
out-of-the-box thinking...just want to keep the facts straight.
Gary
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dangerous
Dave
Sent: Friday, February 04, 2011 4:12 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Covering Processes
Gary,The point I'm trying to make is that it takes 3 cross coats of Eco Fill
to give the fabric full protection,then the 4 coats of paint for a finish.It
has a scientifically proven UV rating.House paint has UV protection also but
how many coats do you need to get to the 100% protection,probably 3
crosscoats thats 6 actual coats,does anyone put on that much and what are
the weight penalties.Can't help it, its the anal A&P in me.The one thing I
have noticed with the house paint finishes that I have seen is that you can
see the weave of the fabric through the paint indicating there's only 2
coats.And do you wet the fabric before painting to get maximum adhesion?dave
--------
Covering Piet
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329553#329553
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | norm <coevst(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: leading edge plywood |
For plywood hold, Arrow JT-21 stapler with 1/4'' staples for 1/16'' ply and
=0A5/16''for 1/8','every 3'' or so.=0A,-pull them when done . no damage
with ths gun many builders use meth=0A=0A=0A=0A____________________________
____=0AFrom: TOM MICHELLE BRANT <tmbrant(at)msn.com>=0ATo: "pietenpol-list@mat
ronics.com" =0ASent: Thu, February 3, 2011 9:
11:44 PM=0ASubject: Pietenpol-List: leading edge plywood=0A=0AMaybe a stupi
d question but I can't figure it out (what's that say about me??)=0A=0AWher
e do you start the leading edge plywood from?- If you start from the bott
om =0Aof the leading edge, how is it held in place while gluing - are nails
used?- Or =0Ado you start it from the top of the leading edge and sand i
t into the curve of =0Athe wing? - I just don't see anything in the plans
====== =0A=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: leading edge plywood |
| From: | Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
Good question.
On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 7:11 PM, TOM MICHELLE BRANT wrote:
> Maybe a stupid question but I can't figure it out (what's that say about
> me??)
>
> Where do you start the leading edge plywood from? If you start from the
> bottom of the leading edge, how is it held in place while gluing - are nails
> used? Or do you start it from the top of the leading edge and sand it into
> the curve of the wing? I just don't see anything in the plans for this.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Tom B.
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: leading edge plywood |
| From: | Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
Ditto.
On Fri, Feb 4, 2011 at 8:25 AM, norm wrote:
> For plywood hold, Arrow JT-21 stapler with 1/4'' staples for 1/16'' ply and
> 5/16''for 1/8','every 3'' or so.
> , pull them when done . no damage with ths gun many builders use meth
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* TOM MICHELLE BRANT
> *To:* "pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com"
> *Sent:* Thu, February 3, 2011 9:11:44 PM
> *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: leading edge plywood
>
> Maybe a stupid question but I can't figure it out (what's that say about
> me??)
>
> Where do you start the leading edge plywood from? If you start from the
> bottom of the leading edge, how is it held in place while gluing - are nails
> used? Or do you start it from the top of the leading edge and sand it into
> the curve of the wing? I just don't see anything in the plans for this.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Tom B.
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Covering Processes |
| From: | Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
Correct, my 5+ year test panel proves that.
On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 9:38 PM, Gboothe5 wrote:
>
> Not so fast, Dave! Your work is definitely exceptional, but I question the
> statement that "... there is not much uv protection in housepaint...".
> Almost all paints contain Titanium Dioxide...the same Titanium Dioxide used
> in sun block. House paints would have to block UV if they were to protect
> wood. Benjamin Moore Exterior Aura brand paints describe their UV
> protection
> as "Extreme."
>
> Rhetorical question - How long should one leave the fabric on a wood framed
> airplane, no matter what dope/paint is used?
>
> Gary Boothe
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dangerous
> Dave
> Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2011 6:00 PM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Covering Processes
>
>
> I have used the Stewart System and think its great.I used Ceconite fabric
> and all the rest is Stewart.All of it has cost about 2200.The difference is
> about 1100 in paint.The reason I didn't go with housepaint is I plan on
> keeping the plane for a long time and there is not much uv protection in
> housepaint Stewarts has 100% protection and if done right will never need a
> recover even if left outside.As to the other systems I've used them all
> and would like to hang on to the 3 brain cells I have left.dave
>
> --------
> Covering Piet
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329530#329530
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Covering Processes |
| From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329573#329573
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Covering Processes |
| From: | "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca> |
Sometimes I just can't help myself....
Gary wrote:
Again, I ask the rhetorical question: How long should a fabric and paint application
last on a wood framed aircraft, before it is removed to merely inspect the
frame? Ive been told 10 years is appropriate.
Gary
Grandma Simpson and Lisa are singing Bob Dylan's "Blowin' in the Wind" ("How many
roads must a man walk down/Before you call him a man?").
Homer overhears and says, "Eight!"
Lisa: "That was a rhetorical question!"
Homer: "Oh. Then, seven!"
Lisa: "Do you even know what 'rhetorical' means?"
Homer: "Do I know what 'rhetorical' means?"
Sorry, Gary. Didn't know you were actually looking for a real answer.
(by the way, I don't have one)
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329574#329574
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: leading edge plywood |
| From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
I knew something wasn't right with some of you guys... and it wasn't just the MEK.
coevst(at)yahoo.com wrote:
> many builders use meth
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329576#329576
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Covering Processes |
| From: | "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca> |
The fact of the matter is that all solvent-based products are becoming less and
less common all the time, and in the not-too-distant future, legislation will
probably make products like Butyrate dope and Polytone illegal, or at least highly
regulated. Look how much metal gets powder coated these days, compared to
wet paint. Because of this movement towards low VOC finishes, fabric covered
aircraft builders will all probably eventually be forced to use other methods
than the "traditional" finishes.
There will be those who will say that they will NEVER be able to stop people finishing
with dope, but I remember not so long ago hearing people saying that there
was no way that they would be able to stop people from smoking in public
places. It's just a matter of time.
Luckily there are some people out there like Stewart's who have developed new low-VOC,
water-based products, and some homebuilders that are experimenting with
latex house paint. Before long we'll have sufficient real-world experience to
be able to determine just how well these alternative finishes work on a fabric-covered
aircraft that gets stored in an open hangar (or not), and is exposed
to the actual stresses of flight, over the long term.
Unfortunately, I don't think it's a question of IF, but rather WHEN the "normal"
finish for a fabric covered aircraft will be water-based.
I'm a big fan of "traditional" ways, but I also can appreciate newer or even just
different technologies that are safer for us to use. Saving a few brain cells
sounds like a good idea to me. I know I will need to use some of mine, from
time to time, so it's probably best to hang on to the ones I have.
Bill C.
(stepping off the soap box)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329578#329578
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: leading edge plywood |
| From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
I forgot to add that the 1/4" x 1/4" strips were recessed 1/16" to allow the plywood
sheet to but against the LE and provide a minimal seam. Ran the sanding
block along the edge and it is smooth and straight. It worked well, but I've
got a no-no that I may have to address... I used 1/4" nails to secure the front
edge and then clamped at the rear. From what I read I probably shouldn't have
done this. I guess I am hoping that the spar varnish and a light felt wrap
will provide adequate protection.
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329579#329579
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Covering Processes |
| From: | "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca> |
The fact of the matter is that all solvent-based products are becoming less and
less common all the time, and in the not-too-distant future, legislation will
probably make products like Butyrate dope and Polytone illegal, or at least highly
regulated. Look how much metal gets powder coated these days, compared to
wet paint. Because of this movement towards low VOC finishes, fabric covered
aircraft builders will all probably eventually be forced to use other methods
than the "traditional" finishes.
There will be those who will say that they will NEVER be able to stop people finishing
with dope, but I remember not so long ago hearing people saying that there
was no way that they would be able to stop people from smoking in public
places. It's just a matter of time.
Luckily there are some people out there like Stewart's who have developed new low-VOC,
water-based products, and some homebuilders that are experimenting with
latex house paint. Before long we'll have sufficient real-world experience to
be able to determine just how well these alternative finishes work on a fabric-covered
aircraft that gets stored in an open hangar (or not), and is exposed
to the actual stresses of flight, over the long term.
Unfortunately, I don't think it's a question of IF, but rather WHEN the "normal"
finish for a fabric covered aircraft will be water-based.
I'm a big fan of "traditional" ways, but I also can appreciate newer or even just
different technologies that are safer for us to use. Saving a few brain cells
sounds like a good idea to me. I know I will need to use some of mine, from
time to time, so it's probably best to hang on to the ones I have.
Bill C.
(stepping off the soap box)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329580#329580
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Covering Processes |
| From: | "bamabuilder" <willie99(at)otelco.net> |
I've been reading the last couple of days that the only way to remove latex or
poly is to sand. I'm no A&P, but that's not totally true. There are a couple of
products that can be bought from most big box or mom n pops hardware stores.
A good one goes by Klean-Strip Brush Cleaner. The contents are fairly toxic to
say the least. Acetone, Methanol, Methylene Chloride, Toluene, and Xylene. It's
made to clean the crude that builds up in paint brushes. To remove the paint
from a surface, just soak a rag and wipe away. The paint will begin to soften
very quickly. I can't testify for the covering material on an airplane, but
I do know it WILL NOT harm a paint brush. It can be used on all brushes, china
bristle or nylon.
By the way new guy/lurker
Now, does anyone care to take the spoon?
JV
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329590#329590
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Covering Processes |
Have you tried it on polyurethane? I'd be very surprised if it works. I
have tried methyl ethyl ketone (MEK), acetone, methylene chloride and
toluene with no result.
Normally this is a good thing. I've spilled brake fluid, gasoline, compass
fluid and other organic solvents on my paint with no blemish, which would
certainly not be true for dope and I doubt if it's true for latex. The only
problem with polyurethane comes when trying to remove it. Once you have
sanded it down to the silver, MEK works nicely to remove it (dissolving the
silver underneath so the polyurethane comes off in sheets), but the only way
I've found to get down to the silver is sandpaper and elbow grease.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Raleigh, NC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of bamabuilder
Sent: Friday, February 04, 2011 12:06 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Covering Processes
I've been reading the last couple of days that the only way to remove latex
or poly is to sand. I'm no A&P, but that's not totally true. There are a
couple of products that can be bought from most big box or mom n pops
hardware stores. A good one goes by Klean-Strip Brush Cleaner. The contents
are fairly toxic to say the least. Acetone, Methanol, Methylene Chloride,
Toluene, and Xylene. It's made to clean the crude that builds up in paint
brushes. To remove the paint from a surface, just soak a rag and wipe away.
The paint will begin to soften very quickly. I can't testify for the
covering material on an airplane, but I do know it WILL NOT harm a paint
brush. It can be used on all brushes, china bristle or nylon.
By the way new guy/lurker
Now, does anyone care to take the spoon?
JV
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329590#329590
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol near Olive Branch, MS? |
| From: | "A Future Pilot" <afuturepilotis(at)gmail.com> |
Thank you very much! To all of you! This is a great community!
For an update on the "building"...I'm planning on buying the Corvair Conversion
manual, and the Flyer and Glider builders manual, today. I'm actively saving
up for the plans (I'm going to get the original, supplemental, and 3-piece, package
from the website) and should be able to buy them in a few weeks.
I'll talk to my dad, and we'll probably get in touch with Mr. Beck once we move.
And I'll definitely give you a call this fall Mr. Kevin. Thanks again!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329596#329596
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | airlion <airlion(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol near Olive Branch, MS? |
Way to go Mr. Future Pilot. You definitely will not forget it. Cheers, Mr. Airlion
--- On Fri, 2/4/11, A Future Pilot wrote:
> From: A Future Pilot <afuturepilotis(at)gmail.com>
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol near Olive Branch, MS?
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Friday, February 4, 2011, 12:25 PM
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted
> by: "A Future Pilot"
>
> Thank you very much! To all of you! This is a great
> community!
>
> For an update on the "building"...I'm planning on buying
> the Corvair Conversion manual, and the Flyer and Glider
> builders manual, today. I'm actively saving up for the plans
> (I'm going to get the original, supplemental, and 3-piece,
> package from the website) and should be able to buy them in
> a few weeks.
>
> I'll talk to my dad, and we'll probably get in touch with
> Mr. Beck once we move. And I'll definitely give you a call
> this fall Mr. Kevin. Thanks again!
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329596#329596
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Email Forum -
> FAQ,
> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
> List Contribution Web Site -
> -Matt
> Dralle, List Admin.
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: leading edge plywood |
Mine.
Michael Perez
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brad Roberts" <ber0101(at)swbell.net> |
| Subject: | Pietenpol Rookie |
Hello, All
I'm new to the Pietenpol world and want to start building one of these
incredible planes as soon as possible. I've completed the restoration of an
Aeronca 11-AC Chief and am flying an RV-7 which I built from a standard kit.
I'm looking forward to learning the unique skills that are need for the
Piet. Are there any of you in or around the Dallas / Ft. Worth area who are
building a Piet? If we ever dig out from this snow, I'd like to see a
project first hand and get your general advice on tools, shop set-up, etc.
My contact info is below. Thanks for your help.
Brad Roberts
214-912-0329
ber0101(at)swbell.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack" <jack(at)textors.com> |
| Subject: | Pietenpol Rookie |
Brad,
Welcome to the list and fraternity of very diverse folks! You need to get
on the Piet Directory Listing, which has a few TX listings. To get a copy
fill out the attached template and return to me. I will send you the latest
listing then.
Welcome again to Team Pietenpol!
Jack
DSM
Keeper of the list
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brad Roberts
Sent: Friday, February 04, 2011 12:08 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol Rookie
Hello, All
I'm new to the Pietenpol world and want to start building one of these
incredible planes as soon as possible. I've completed the restoration of an
Aeronca 11-AC Chief and am flying an RV-7 which I built from a standard kit.
I'm looking forward to learning the unique skills that are need for the
Piet. Are there any of you in or around the Dallas / Ft. Worth area who are
building a Piet? If we ever dig out from this snow, I'd like to see a
project first hand and get your general advice on tools, shop set-up, etc.
My contact info is below. Thanks for your help.
Brad Roberts
214-912-0329
ber0101(at)swbell.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> |
| Subject: | Re: leading edge plywood |
How about the lower part of the nose back to the spar? Does it not need
to be covered with plywood?
----- Original Message -----
From: Rick Holland
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, February 04, 2011 11:09 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: leading edge plywood
Good question.
On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 7:11 PM, TOM MICHELLE BRANT
wrote:
Maybe a stupid question but I can't figure it out (what's that say
about me??)
Where do you start the leading edge plywood from? If you start from
the bottom of the leading edge, how is it held in place while gluing -
are nails used? Or do you start it from the top of the leading edge and
sand it into the curve of the wing? I just don't see anything in the
plans for this.
Thanks,
Tom B.
" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Covering Processes |
| From: | "bamabuilder" <willie99(at)otelco.net> |
JP a little more reserch leads me to believe you are correct about the polyuethane,
my bad. My test piece was very old and my suspicion is that it was a shellac.
As for latex, cuts it like butter.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329615#329615
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: leading edge plywood |
| From: | Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
No, ply just the top, spar to LE.
On Fri, Feb 4, 2011 at 11:29 AM, Charles Campbell wrote:
> How about the lower part of the nose back to the spar? Does it not need
> to be covered with plywood?
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Rick Holland
> *To:* pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> *Sent:* Friday, February 04, 2011 11:09 AM
> *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: leading edge plywood
>
> Good question.
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 7:11 PM, TOM MICHELLE BRANT wrote:
>
>> Maybe a stupid question but I can't figure it out (what's that say about
>> me??)
>>
>> Where do you start the leading edge plywood from? If you start from the
>> bottom of the leading edge, how is it held in place while gluing - are nails
>> used? Or do you start it from the top of the leading edge and sand it into
>> the curve of the wing? I just don't see anything in the plans for this.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Tom B.
>>
>> *
>>
>> " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>> tp://forums.matronics.com
>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> *
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Rick Holland
> Castle Rock, Colorado
>
> "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | leading edge plywood |
Not per the plans. I didn't cover my lower leading edge and most don't.
See photo below:
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Raleigh, NC
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charles
Campbell
Sent: Friday, February 04, 2011 1:30 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: leading edge plywood
How about the lower part of the nose back to the spar? Does it not need to
be covered with plywood?
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Covering Processes |
| From: | "DOMIT" <rx7_ragtop(at)yahoo.com> |
Hmmm... I wonder if, to get a "clear doped linen" appearance, one could dye the
fabric and apply a clear polyurethane finish? (Yes, I know, no UV protection...
it would have to be recovered every 3 hours and 17 minutes of flight time,
etc...)
--------
Brad "DOMIT" Smith
First rule of ground school: This is the ground... don't hit it going fast.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329635#329635
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: leading edge plywood |
| From: | "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca> |
Like Jack said, not per the plans.
BC
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329636#329636
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/leading_edge_ply_387.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol Rookie |
| From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
Welcome Brad! A good bunch of folks here and lots of information.
Hey Jack, can you send me that directory again when you get a minute... I meant
to save it to my notes and must have forgot.
Thanks!
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329638#329638
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Covering Processes |
| From: | Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
Have seen one Piet and a Jenny done this way, as long as its in ahanger most
of the time what the hay? I looks great.
On Fri, Feb 4, 2011 at 12:58 PM, DOMIT wrote:
>
> Hmmm... I wonder if, to get a "clear doped linen" appearance, one could dye
> the fabric and apply a clear polyurethane finish? (Yes, I know, no UV
> protection... it would have to be recovered every 3 hours and 17 minutes of
> flight time, etc...)
>
> --------
> Brad "DOMIT" Smith
>
> First rule of ground school: This is the ground... don't hit it going
> fast.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329635#329635
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Covering Processes |
| From: | "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca> |
Like this?
http://www.westcoastpiet.com/images/Brown%20Aero/images/nx37979.jpg
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329644#329644
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ben Charvet <bencharvet(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Covering Processes |
The circles I cut out of my inspection holes can be wadded up in a ball
and will fold out flat with no adverse flexing effects (latex).
Polyurethane, on the other hand, is harder than hammered cat s**t, and
I've seen airplanes covered in it with all kinds of bullseye cracks
after a few years. After all is said in done, my opinion should not
effect someone else who is tied to an FAA approved system, but I'd
suggest that someone still on the fence, come to Brodhead and compare
some airplanes side by side. Just for reference, my Douglas Fir, Latex
painted Pietenpol in at 692 pounds empty with a Continental A-65
Ben Charvet
>
> _Flexibility_. Almost all paints are subjected to some sort of
> flexibility test. The BM Aura brand paints are tested to ASTM D522...a
> conical test that shows the product's ability to stay bonded to a
> substrate as the substrate is bent around a cone.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol Rookie |
| From: | "kevinpurtee" <kevin.purtee(at)us.army.mil> |
Hi Brad - There are a bunch of us in TX. Curtis Merdan is near you. I'm sure
he'll check in. I'm in Austin. You're welcome to come take a look. I'm out
of town but will be back mid-March. You can also visit Tim Willis' project in
Austin.
Kevin
--------
Kevin "Axel" Purtee
NX899KP
Austin/Georgetown, TX
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329685#329685
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Paint discussion ad nauseum |
| From: | "kevinpurtee" <kevin.purtee(at)us.army.mil> |
BTW: MEK is only the cleaning solvent. I'm pretty darn sure that none of the poly-fiber
poly-tone products use MEK in the coatings.
--------
Kevin "Axel" Purtee
NX899KP
Austin/Georgetown, TX
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329688#329688
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TOM MICHELLE BRANT <tmbrant(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | leading edge plywood |
Thanks for all the replies on the leading edge - I think I can sort it out
from what everyone told me.
Side note in case anyone cares.... I'm working on the center section after
hastily putting it together in July. My mother was dying from cancer at t
he time and we were going to build the CC together. She ended up getting t
oo weak too quick and I kept pushing to get the CC done while she was still
here - just to show her. In my rush=2C I'm paying for some lack of planni
ng now. It's nothing beyond repair but it's gonna be a bit of a pain. My
father has offered to help get it completed in honor of my mom.
I'm happy to be back in the game making some progress on the Piet. 3 steps
forward 2 steps back I guess.
Tom B.
From: catdesigns(at)att.net
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: leading edge plywood
Date: Thu=2C 3 Feb 2011 18:43:13 -0800
Tom
Near the
bottom you will find several pictures of how I did the leading edge
ply.
http://westcoastpiet.com/images/Chris%20Tracy/Wings.htm
If you
look closely you can see I overlapped the plywood onto the leading edge int
o a
recess I left for it. The leading edge (poplar) was finished to shape after
the plywood was installed.
Chris
Sacramento=2C Ca
Westcoastpiet.com
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of TOM
MICHELLE BRANT
Sent: Thursday=2C February 03=2C 2011 6:12 PM
pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: leading edge
plywood
Maybe a stupid question but I can't figure it out (what's that say
about me??)
Where do you start the leading edge plywood from? If
you start from the bottom of the leading edge=2C how is it held in place wh
ile
gluing - are nails used? Or do you start it from the top of the leading
edge and sand it into the curve of the wing? I just don't see anything in
the plans for this.
Thanks=2C
Tom B.
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matro
nics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gene Rambo <generambo(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Paint discussion ad nauseum |
not the finish=2C but the cement is MEK based!! That is why I am using Stew
art Systems cement to cover=2C even though I am using dope for the finish.
Stewart even blessed me doing that=2C said dope wont hurt the glue. And I
thought they would say I had to use their finishes . . .
Gene Rambo
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Paint discussion ad nauseum
> From: kevin.purtee(at)us.army.mil
> Date: Fri=2C 4 Feb 2011 21:07:46 -0800
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>
.mil>
>
> BTW: MEK is only the cleaning solvent. I'm pretty darn sure that none of
the poly-fiber poly-tone products use MEK in the coatings.
>
> --------
> Kevin "=3BAxel"=3B Purtee
> NX899KP
> Austin/Georgetown=2C TX
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329688#329688
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack" <jack(at)textors.com> |
Hello all, I just sent the listing to all that have submitted their info.
If you didn't receive the listing and want to be included fill out the
template and return to my home email jack(at)textors.com.
Thanks,
Jack
Jack Textor
29 SW 58th Drive
Des Moines, IA 50312
www.textors.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | leading edge plywood |
I would trade a totally useless (I know your cc isn't actually useless...) piece
of ANYTHING for another chance to spend some time with my Mom...that was neat
that you two did even a small part of it together.
jm
-----Original Message-----
From: TOM MICHELLE BRANT
Sent: Feb 4, 2011 11:30 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: leading edge plywood
Thanks for all the replies on the leading edge - I think I can sort it out from
what everyone told me.
Side note in case anyone cares.... I'm working on the center section after hastily
putting it together in July. My mother was dying from cancer at the time
and we were going to build the CC together. She ended up getting too weak too
quick and I kept pushing to get the CC done while she was still here - just
to show her. In my rush, I'm paying for some lack of planning now. It's nothing
beyond repair but it's gonna be a bit of a pain. My father has offered to
help get it completed in honor of my mom.
I'm happy to be back in the game making some progress on the Piet. 3 steps forward
2 steps back I guess.
Tom B.
From: catdesigns(at)att.net
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: leading edge plywood
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2011 18:43:13 -0800
Tom
Near the
bottom you will find several pictures of how I did the leading edge
ply.
http://westcoastpiet.com/images/Chris%20Tracy/Wings.htm
If you
look closely you can see I overlapped the plywood onto the leading edge into a
recess I left for it. The leading edge (poplar) was finished to shape after
the plywood was installed.
Chris
Sacramento, Ca
Westcoastpiet.com
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of TOM
MICHELLE BRANT
Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2011 6:12 PM
pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: leading edge
plywood
Maybe a stupid question but I can't figure it out (what's that say
about me??)
Where do you start the leading edge plywood from? If
you start from the bottom of the leading edge, how is it held in place while
gluing - are nails used? Or do you start it from the top of the leading
edge and sand it into the curve of the wing? I just don't see anything in
the plans for this.
Thanks,
Tom B.
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
http://forums.matronics.com
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Morlock" <l.morlock(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Wing Strut Fitting Angle |
I need some advice on how to get the angle of the lower wing strut
fittings to match the angle of the wing struts. There are several
discussions on this in the archives, with the consensus being that the
tabs should be bent up 30 degrees, rather than the 20 degrees shown in
the plans.
My fuselage is already covered and now I find that the tabs need to be
bent up further to the required 30 degree angle. I don't see any way to
bend them in place without damage to the fuselage.
So my question is, would it be OK to bolt an additional tab to the
existing tab to get the correct angle? I saw a Pietenpol with such an
arrangement several years ago. It would cause some bending stress on
the existing tabs, but not sure if this would be a problem.
Any experience out there with this problem? Any other suggestions?
Larry Morlock
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gene Rambo <generambo(at)msn.com> |
can't open it.
Gene
> From: jack(at)textors.com
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet Directory
> Date: Sat=2C 5 Feb 2011 06:28:42 -0600
>
> Hello all=2C I just sent the listing to all that have submitted their inf
o.
> If you didn't receive the listing and want to be included fill out the
> template and return to my home email jack(at)textors.com.
> Thanks=2C
> Jack
>
>
> Jack Textor
> 29 SW 58th Drive
> Des Moines=2C IA 50312
> www.textors.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Wing Strut Fitting Angle |
Larry,
Is it not possible to bend the tabs of your existing fittings? If the bolts
and longerons are strong enough to handle flight and landing loads, I would
think that you could bend the tabs with a correctly designed lever without
damaging the structure.
I would make a lever out of a couple of pieces of substantial angle iron -
maybe 8' long 2" x 2", welded together to make a T section (so you can
apply a load without getting a twist) and weld some sort of receptacle on
the end that can slip over the tab on your fuselage fittings. Have a friend
hold the fuselage down and push up on the lever until you have the desired
result.
Otherwise, your idea of an extra fitting to change the angle can probably be
made to work, but needs to be made so that it applies the load along the
axis of the strut. Can your struts be modified to fit the 20 deg. Angle of
your fittings? I know this would impart some moment to the strut and
fitting, but it probably would not be too severe.
Do you have any pictures of your fitting and the end of your strut?
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Raleigh, NC
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry
Morlock
Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 10:02 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing Strut Fitting Angle
I need some advice on how to get the angle of the lower wing strut fittings
to match the angle of the wing struts. There are several discussions on
this in the archives, with the consensus being that the tabs should be bent
up 30 degrees, rather than the 20 degrees shown in the plans.
My fuselage is already covered and now I find that the tabs need to be bent
up further to the required 30 degree angle. I don't see any way to bend
them in place without damage to the fuselage.
So my question is, would it be OK to bolt an additional tab to the existing
tab to get the correct angle? I saw a Pietenpol with such an arrangement
several years ago. It would cause some bending stress on the existing tabs,
but not sure if this would be a problem.
Any experience out there with this problem? Any other suggestions?
Larry Morlock
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gboothe5" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Wing Strut Fitting Angle |
Larry,
Don't know what others did, and I haven't built the wings yet, but I just
measured the angle of the strut, as pictured in the scaled drawing, with a
protractor.should be close enough.
Gary Boothe
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry
Morlock
Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 7:02 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing Strut Fitting Angle
I need some advice on how to get the angle of the lower wing strut fittings
to match the angle of the wing struts. There are several discussions on
this in the archives, with the consensus being that the tabs should be bent
up 30 degrees, rather than the 20 degrees shown in the plans.
My fuselage is already covered and now I find that the tabs need to be bent
up further to the required 30 degree angle. I don't see any way to bend
them in place without damage to the fuselage.
So my question is, would it be OK to bolt an additional tab to the existing
tab to get the correct angle? I saw a Pietenpol with such an arrangement
several years ago. It would cause some bending stress on the existing tabs,
but not sure if this would be a problem.
Any experience out there with this problem? Any other suggestions?
Larry Morlock
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Piet Directory |
I can't open it either. I don't have XL on this computer. We went down
this road a few weeks back. Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene Rambo
To: pietenpol-list
Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 10:03 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Piet Directory
can't open it.
Gene
> From: jack(at)textors.com
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet Directory
> Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2011 06:28:42 -0600
>
> Hello all, I just sent the listing to all that have submitted their
info.
> If you didn't receive the listing and want to be included fill out
the
> template and return to my home email jack(at)textors.com.
> Thanks,
> Jack
>
>
> Jack Textor
> 29 SW 58th Drive
> Des Moines, IA 50312
> www.textors.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gboothe5" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Wing Strut Fitting Angle |
Sorry, Larry, didn't completely read your post. I would follow Jack's
advice.
Gary Boothe
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gboothe5
Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 7:36 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wing Strut Fitting Angle
Larry,
Don't know what others did, and I haven't built the wings yet, but I just
measured the angle of the strut, as pictured in the scaled drawing, with a
protractor.should be close enough.
Gary Boothe
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry
Morlock
Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 7:02 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing Strut Fitting Angle
I need some advice on how to get the angle of the lower wing strut fittings
to match the angle of the wing struts. There are several discussions on
this in the archives, with the consensus being that the tabs should be bent
up 30 degrees, rather than the 20 degrees shown in the plans.
My fuselage is already covered and now I find that the tabs need to be bent
up further to the required 30 degree angle. I don't see any way to bend
them in place without damage to the fuselage.
So my question is, would it be OK to bolt an additional tab to the existing
tab to get the correct angle? I saw a Pietenpol with such an arrangement
several years ago. It would cause some bending stress on the existing tabs,
but not sure if this would be a problem.
Any experience out there with this problem? Any other suggestions?
Larry Morlock
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris" <catdesigns(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Wing Strut Fitting Angle |
Larry
A Piet near where Gary Boothe lives had the same problem because they raised
the wing. You can see in the picture in the following link that they
machined an aluminum fitting to bolt between the wing strut and the lower
fitting.
http://westcoastpiet.com/images/O%20Hara%20-%20Howe/images/IMG_3032.JPG
Not sure about the engineering, but their plane has about 40 hours on it.
Chris
Sacramento, Ca
Westcoastpiet.com
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry
Morlock
Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 7:02 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing Strut Fitting Angle
I need some advice on how to get the angle of the lower wing strut fittings
to match the angle of the wing struts. There are several discussions on
this in the archives, with the consensus being that the tabs should be bent
up 30 degrees, rather than the 20 degrees shown in the plans.
My fuselage is already covered and now I find that the tabs need to be bent
up further to the required 30 degree angle. I don't see any way to bend
them in place without damage to the fuselage.
So my question is, would it be OK to bolt an additional tab to the existing
tab to get the correct angle? I saw a Pietenpol with such an arrangement
several years ago. It would cause some bending stress on the existing tabs,
but not sure if this would be a problem.
Any experience out there with this problem? Any other suggestions?
Larry Morlock
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Piet Directory |
| From: | "bamabuilder" <willie99(at)otelco.net> |
Try openoffice.org free download.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329719#329719
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | clear doped look |
NX799B will be sporting a "faux" clear doped linen look when she makes her
next public appearance. I spoke with Tom Brown who just used clear dope on
his wings, and a few other guys for their experience. Since she'll be
hangared, the UV shouldn't be an issue for a LONG time. I wanted to
simulate the doped linen look of the early planes, where the fabric almost
took on a "tea stained, parchment look" that and was translucent when
backlit imparting a beautifully light and ethereal quality to the planes.
I tested a bunch of squares and came upon the following recipe. After the
first nitrate coats are applied to ensure the Dacron fibers are
encapsulated, we mixed up clear butyrate with some polyfiber UV blocker
(called them and they said it was compatible) which is an amber color, and
then added some various organic pigment powders to get the straw color I
wanted. I've read a report from the NASM restoration facility where they
did longevity and exposure tests on clear coatings and actually found that
good quality UV spar varnished applied to the fabric outlasted everything
else by far. I tried that over the dope, but it left a super shiny surface
which bothered me, so maybe I'll just do that on the top of the wing for
some added UV.
Don Emch recovered my wings and used this recipe and they really look nice.
Douwe
Ps. Whoever asked for pics of my seat back, I'll get them out just as soon
as my camera is returned.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: clear doped look |
| From: | Ken Chambers <ken.riffic(at)gmail.com> |
Not to reignite the argument, but they also make a clear latex ... .
On Sat, Feb 5, 2011 at 10:22 AM, Douwe Blumberg wrote:
> NX799B will be sporting a =93faux=94 clear doped linen look when she mak
es
> her next public appearance. I spoke with Tom Brown who just used clear d
ope
> on his wings, and a few other guys for their experience. Since she=92ll
be
> hangared, the UV shouldn=92t be an issue for a LONG time. I wanted to
> simulate the doped linen look of the early planes, where the fabric almos
t
> took on a =93tea stained, parchment look=94 that and was translucent when
> backlit imparting a beautifully light and ethereal quality to the planes.
>
>
> I tested a bunch of squares and came upon the following recipe. After th
e
> first nitrate coats are applied to ensure the Dacron fibers are
> encapsulated, we mixed up clear butyrate with some polyfiber UV blocker
> (called them and they said it was compatible) which is an amber color, an
d
> then added some various organic pigment powders to get the straw color I
> wanted. I=92ve read a report from the NASM restoration facility where th
ey
> did longevity and exposure tests on clear coatings and actually found tha
t
> good quality UV spar varnished applied to the fabric outlasted everything
> else by far. I tried that over the dope, but it left a super shiny surfa
ce
> which bothered me, so maybe I=92ll just do that on the top of the wing fo
r
> some added UV.
>
>
> Don Emch recovered my wings and used this recipe and they really look nic
e.
>
>
> Douwe
>
>
> Ps. Whoever asked for pics of my seat back, I=92ll get them out just as
soon
> as my camera is returned.
>
> *
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
> *
>
>
--
Ken Chambers
512-796-1798
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: clear doped look |
| From: | Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
Douwe, would flat or stain spar varnish still leave a too-shiny finish? Thi
s
is interesting with so many people so paranoid about UV penetration and
assuming only "real" aircraft finish systems will prevent certain death.
rick
> I tested a bunch of squares and came upon the following recipe. After th
e
> first nitrate coats are applied to ensure the Dacron fibers are
> encapsulated, we mixed up clear butyrate with some polyfiber UV blocker
> (called them and they said it was compatible) which is an amber color, an
d
> then added some various organic pigment powders to get the straw color I
> wanted. I=92ve read a report from the NASM restoration facility where th
ey
> did longevity and exposure tests on clear coatings and actually found tha
t
> good quality UV spar varnished applied to the fabric outlasted everything
> else by far. I tried that over the dope, but it left a super shiny surfa
ce
> which bothered me, so maybe I=92ll just do that on the top of the wing fo
r
> some added UV.
>
>
> Don Emch recovered my wings and used this recipe and they really look nic
e.
>
>
> Douwe
>
>
> Ps. Whoever asked for pics of my seat back, I=92ll get them out just as
soon
> as my camera is returned.
>
> *
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
> *
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Covering Processes |
Brad,
Co-incidentally, just yesterday I was on a project in Bishop, Ca., which is
a desert climate, and saw some tinted stain over wood that was over 3 years
old. There was no degredation of the finish. I asked about UV protection,
but the applicator had no knowledge. Below is a link to the manufacturer
(Flood) and an MSDS. Neither address UV, but I notice there is some Titanium
Dioxide. I'm sure a simple note, or call, to them would confirm the level of
UV protection.
http://www.duspec.com/DuSpec2/document/DocumentDisplayController.htm?documen
tId=664597
http://www.duspec.com/DuSpec2/document/DocumentDisplayController.htm?documen
tId=664599
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, Running!
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(24 ribs down.)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of DOMIT
Sent: Friday, February 04, 2011 11:59 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Covering Processes
Hmmm... I wonder if, to get a "clear doped linen" appearance, one could dye
the fabric and apply a clear polyurethane finish? (Yes, I know, no UV
protection... it would have to be recovered every 3 hours and 17 minutes of
flight time, etc...)
--------
Brad "DOMIT" Smith
First rule of ground school: This is the ground... don't hit it going fast.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329635#329635
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: clear doped look |
| From: | Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
OMG, here we go again...
On Sat, Feb 5, 2011 at 9:44 AM, Ken Chambers wrote:
>
> Not to reignite the argument, but they also make a clear latex ... .
>
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack" <jack(at)textors.com> |
Gene and Charles sorry for the hassle. The attached file is a txt document.
You should be able to open it then just add your info in the same order and
I will cut and paste. You will still have a problem opening the Directory
unless you download www.openoffice.org <http://www.openoffice.org/> as
suggested. I could send it to you as a PDF but it would be messed up.
Thanks,
Jack
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gene Rambo
Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 9:03 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Piet Directory
can't open it.
Gene
> From: jack(at)textors.com
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet Directory
> Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2011 06:28:42 -0600
>
> Hello all, I just sent the listing to all that have submitted their info.
> If you didn't receive the listing and want to be included fill out the
> template and return to my home email jack(at)textors.com.
> Thanks,
> Jack
>
>
> Jack Textor
> 29 SW 58th Drive
> Des Moines, IA 50312
> www.textors.com
>
>
First Name Last Name Street City State Zip Country Home
Base Occupation Employer Wk Phone Home Phone Cell Primary
Email Piet Model Engine N Number Flying? Y/N Web Site
Project Status Comments
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Piet Directory |
| From: | Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com> |
Wow...I can even open it on my phone. Jack, could we get you to make up a
few copies longhand, in triplicate, for those...technologically challenged
builders. ;)
OpenOffice, Google Docs, Office Web Apps on MS Live....all free, and should
be able to handle the file. Office Web Apps is probably the best bet for
compatibility, since it is Microsoft. Yeah, you have to sign up for a free
MS Live acct, but if you don't want to buy Office its the lesser of two
evils.
Ryan
Sent from my mobile device
On Feb 5, 2011 9:51 AM, "Charles Campbell"
wrote:
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Piet Directory |
Ok! I'm just about computer illiterate. I downloaded openoffice.org,
created a folder in folder options in control panel. Now when I click on
the link in Jack's E-mail it sends me to a block which still tells me to do
what I just told you about. Now what do I do, coach? Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: "bamabuilder" <willie99(at)otelco.net>
Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 11:28 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Piet Directory
>
> Try openoffice.org free download.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329719#329719
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Piet Directory |
Jack, I'm already in the list. Just wanted to get the updated version.
I tried the openoffice.org bit but it still doesn't work. Just posted a
note about this. If you can tell me what I'm doing wrong I would
appreciate it. Thanks, Chuck (Charles)
----- Original Message -----
From: Jack
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 12:33 PM
Subject: RE: RE: Pietenpol-List: Piet Directory
Gene and Charles sorry for the hassle. The attached file is a txt
document. You should be able to open it then just add your info in the
same order and I will cut and paste. You will still have a problem
opening the Directory unless you download www.openoffice.org as
suggested. I could send it to you as a PDF but it would be messed up.
Thanks,
Jack
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gene
Rambo
Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 9:03 AM
To: pietenpol-list
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Piet Directory
can't open it.
Gene
> From: jack(at)textors.com
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet Directory
> Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2011 06:28:42 -0600
>
> Hello all, I just sent the listing to all that have submitted their
info.
> If you didn't receive the listing and want to be included fill out
the
> template and return to my home email jack(at)textors.com.
> Thanks,
> Jack
>
>
> Jack Textor
> 29 SW 58th Drive
> Des Moines, IA 50312
> www.textors.com
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhttp://forums.matronics.
comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Piet Directory |
| From: | "Ryan Mueller" <rmueller23(at)gmail.com> |
Not sure what doing anything with Folder Options has to do with it. You downloaded
the OpenOffice installation file...did you then run the installer and install
the program? If so it should have given you the choice to associate Excel
and other standard Office file formats with the program, or maybe even have done
so automatically. If you really get stumped, let me know. I've got a Gotomeeting
account, and we could do a one time remote session and I can resolve the
issue.
Ryan
------Original Message------
From: Charles Campbell
Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
ReplyTo: Pietenpol List
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Piet Directory
Sent: Feb 5, 2011 12:19 PM
Ok! I'm just about computer illiterate. I downloaded openoffice.org,
created a folder in folder options in control panel. Now when I click on
the link in Jack's E-mail it sends me to a block which still tells me to do
what I just told you about. Now what do I do, coach? Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: "bamabuilder" <willie99(at)otelco.net>
Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 11:28 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Piet Directory
>
> Try openoffice.org free download.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329719#329719
>
>
>
Ryan Mueller
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "skellytown flyer" <skellflyer1(at)yahoo.com> |
Well as bad as I have been wanting to do my first flight on my plane since I have
gotten it signed off in December the weather has been against me and the few
days I have had decent weather to attempt it the engine has failed to run up
right-rather stumbling and trying to die as i open the throttle.i had it running
smooth in the summer but now it will not. I am about 99% sure it is the carb
though I have removed it and cleaned it 3 times. today I was sure it finally
would go but no luck. it is the Stromberg I got from D.J. along with the rest
of th project. The engine runs smooth but usually as I try to open the throttle
it just stumbles and dies.I did notice that when it's idling it is dripping
gas around the adjusting needle which leads me to think there might be some
type of seal that I'm missing there.it had sat several years but paperwork showed
it had been through a carb shop down around south Texas. I have had no luck
getting an answer for that shop so am assuming they have folded. I guess the
next step will be to send it to some other shop and hope they can resurrect
it again. it has the 1 3/8" venturi in it and I'm assuming the right jets but
I think the time has come to admit defeat and send it off. Who preferably in
the Texas Oklahoma area might be a good place to send it to? Raymond
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329766#329766
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ryan Mueller" <rmueller23(at)gmail.com> |
Raymond,
This is on a Corvair, right? If it's going on a Corvair, you should just ship it
to Russ Romey at D&G Supply in Niles, MI. He's the go to shop for overhauling
and setting up carbs for Corvairs. Tell him what the prob is, and that you want
it set up for a 'Vair, and you should be good. Reasonable cost too, imho.
Ryan Mueller
-----Original Message-----
From: "skellytown flyer" <skellflyer1(at)yahoo.com>
Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2011 12:26:27
Well as bad as I have been wanting to do my first flight on my plane since I have
gotten it signed off in December the weather has been against me and the few
days I have had decent weather to attempt it the engine has failed to run up
right-rather stumbling and trying to die as i open the throttle.i had it running
smooth in the summer but now it will not. I am about 99% sure it is the carb
though I have removed it and cleaned it 3 times. today I was sure it finally
would go but no luck. it is the Stromberg I got from D.J. along with the rest
of th project. The engine runs smooth but usually as I try to open the throttle
it just stumbles and dies.I did notice that when it's idling it is dripping
gas around the adjusting needle which leads me to think there might be some
type of seal that I'm missing there.it had sat several years but paperwork showed
it had been through a carb shop down around south Texas. I have had no luck
getting an answer for that shop so am assuming t!
hey have folded. I guess the next step will be to send it to some other shop and
hope they can resurrect it again. it has the 1 3/8" venturi in it and I'm assuming
the right jets but I think the time has come to admit defeat and send
it off. Who preferably in the Texas Oklahoma area might be a good place to send
it to? Raymond
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329766#329766
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "skellytown flyer" <skellflyer1(at)yahoo.com> |
that's right. and sounds like a good place.- if I can't get it going soon I need
to search their contact information and ship it.thanks. Raymond
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329773#329773
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Ernest Kestler paint job?? |
| From: | "TriScout" <apfelcyber(at)yahoo.com> |
Kestler?... you must mean "Kessler".... I thought it might be neat to get a faded
yellow piet and paint "Waldo Pfeiffer" on it. It would look cool with a squared
off Jenny-style cowl, spoke wheels and antique instrument panel.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329783#329783
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Ernest Kestler paint job?? |
| From: | "TriScout" <apfelcyber(at)yahoo.com> |
..actual spelling is "Ernst Kessler"... don't forget, you must do the 'outside
loop" if you finish that machine.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329784#329784
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ray Krause" <raykrause(at)frontiernet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Paint discussion ad nauseum |
Is the Stewert System glue particular about the varnish that is used
under it? My son-in-law owns the Benjamin Moore paint store in town and
recommended a fancy water based varnish that has very high UV protection
and is super easy to use, glossy and totally waterproof...but very
expensive. Started using it on the interior of the fuselage where I
will not be able to get to later on.
Ray Krause
Sky Scout
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene Rambo
To: pietenpol-list
Sent: Friday, February 04, 2011 9:36 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Paint discussion ad nauseum
not the finish, but the cement is MEK based!! That is why I am using
Stewart Systems cement to cover, even though I am using dope for the
finish. Stewart even blessed me doing that, said dope wont hurt the
glue. And I thought they would say I had to use their finishes . . .
Gene Rambo
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Paint discussion ad nauseum
> From: kevin.purtee(at)us.army.mil
> Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2011 21:07:46 -0800
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>
>
> BTW: MEK is only the cleaning solvent. I'm pretty darn sure that
none of the poly-fiber poly-tone products use MEK in the coatings.
>
> --------
> Kevin "Axel" Purtee
> NX899KP
> Austin/Georgetown, TX
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329688#329688
>
>
>
>
> =====================
>===================
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: leading edge plywood |
| From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
Dang.
generambo(at)msn.com wrote:
> not an urban legend, they WILL work themselves back out.
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329791#329791
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wing Strut Fitting Angle |
| From: | helspersew(at)aol.com |
Larry,
Last year I was helping a friend attach his wings on his Super Cub kit. He
had an expert (really) helping him who had tons of experience with this. He
actually took a large crescent wrench and bent the tab angle to fit the wi
ng strut. I also bent my fittings this way when mine needed some tweaking.
That 4130 is soft enough to give a little.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
-----Original Message-----
From: Larry Morlock <l.morlock(at)att.net>
Sent: Sat, Feb 5, 2011 9:05 am
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing Strut Fitting Angle
I need some advice on how to get the angle of the lower wing strut fittings
to match the angle of the wing struts. There are several discussions on t
his in the archives, with the consensus being that the tabs should be bent
up 30 degrees, rather than the 20 degrees shown in the plans.
My fuselage is already covered and now I find that the tabs need to be bent
up further to the required 30 degree angle. I don=C2=92t see any way to b
end them in place without damage to the fuselage.
So my question is, would it be OK to bolt an additional tab to the existing
tab to get the correct angle? I saw a Pietenpol with such an arrangement
several years ago. It would cause some bending stress on the existing tabs
, but not sure if this would be a problem.
Any experience out there with this problem? Any other suggestions?
Larry Morlock
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________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: leading edge plywood |
| From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
helspersew(at)aol.com wrote:
> If those nails really do work themselves out, I am in heap-o-trouble since I
put in about a million to hold that plywood in place.
>
> Dan Helsper
> Poplar Grove, IL.
>
Yep, just what I was thinking. I drove ~3000 into my wing ribs. Ought to sound
like a couple of maracas on final.
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329804#329804
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing Strut Fitting Angle |
It's pretty easy to get extremely close numbers/angles. Haven't had time to get
caught up on emails so if this has already been addressed, hit delete! :-)
Measure (or calculate) the height difference between the lower fitting and the
wing attach point. That will give you the rise of a triangle (Side a). Calculate
the "horizontal" distance between the two fittings. That will give you the
base of the triangle (Side b).
Now go to http://www.csgnetwork.com/righttricalc.html (or google "right triangle calculator" and use any of the free online calculators) and plug in the Side a and Side b numbers and the calculator will tell you the angle....and numbers for strut length.
Not precisely accurate because of dihedral, etc but should be plenty close enough
to get an angle for the lower fitting.
The same calculators will be useful for determining dihedral numbers if you want
some in your wing....
jm
-----Original Message-----
From: Larry Morlock
Sent: Feb 5, 2011 9:02 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing Strut Fitting Angle
I need
some advice on how to get the angle of the lower wing strut fittings to match
the angle of the wing struts. There
are several discussions on this in the archives, with the consensus being that
the tabs should be bent up 30 degrees, rather than the 20 degrees shown in the
plans.
My
fuselage is already covered and now I find that the tabs need to be bent up
further to the required 30 degree angle.
I dont see any way to bend them in place without damage to the
fuselage.
So my
question is, would it be OK to bolt an additional tab to the existing tab to get
the correct angle? I saw a
Pietenpol with such an arrangement several years ago. It would cause some bending
stress on
the existing tabs, but not sure if this would be a problem.
Any
experience out there with this problem? Any other suggestions?
Larry Morlock
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ray Krause" <raykrause(at)frontiernet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: leading edge plywood |
Do ALL nails in all parts of the plane, the ones not removed after gluing,
work their way out. Or only on the leading edge?
Ray Krause
----- Original Message -----
From: "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net>
Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 4:49 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: leading edge plywood
>
> Dang.
>
>
> generambo(at)msn.com wrote:
>> not an urban legend, they WILL work themselves back out.
>
>
> --------
> Mark Chouinard
> Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329791#329791
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Clif Dawson" <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: leading edge plywood |
So you won't need to buy dimple tape then.
Clif
"If you view all the things that happen to you, both good and bad, as
opportunities, then you operate out of a higher level of consciousness."
~ Les Brown
>> If those nails really do work themselves out, I am in heap-o-trouble
>> since I put in about a million to hold that plywood in place.
>>
>> Dan Helsper
>> Poplar Grove, IL.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wing Strut Fitting Angle |
| From: | "Dangerous Dave" <dsornbor(at)aol.com> |
Dan has it pegged.Just use a crescent wrench,I had to do the same thing on mine
and on a clipped wing cub.Putting in a link is a bad idea,in tension it has strength
but in compression it wont and in turbulence or a not so soft landing
your wings could droop or rotate leaving you....
dave
--------
Covering Piet
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329827#329827
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Larry's strut fittings |
Larry,
First off I'd sure be positive they ARE at the wrong angle before you did
anything. I know you have that one piece wing, but you also have a ton of
room, so I'd jig it up in position and then if any tweaks have to be made,
do it then. I've found that sometimes things look wrong until it's all
together and then it miraculously fits just fine.
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> |
Rick,
I didn't exhaustively ck, but I seemed to find that the satin or flat spar
varnishes were not as strong in the UV blocking department. Satin would be
perfect, OR if one wanted to take the time, one could likely use the glossy
and simply rub the shine down a bit with a rubbing compound.
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
Just saw a (VERY quick) shot of the Bell's Piet on "The Aviators"....
Great show and neat to see a familiar Air Camper on my TV!!!
JM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | a cool "non Bernard" approved mod |
In an effort to provide space for bulky, yet light items such as
jackets/sleeping bags etc, this week I built a small baggage compartment
behind the pilot's bulkhead with an access door in the turtle deck just
behind the cockpit. I've always like Mike Cuys large area in the turtle
deck accessed through the door behind his head for light stuff.
I obviously didn't want to go far back, but there is a fair amount of depth
available there before you'd interfere with the elevator cables. So I made
it only about ten inches deep, but it goes from one side to the other and
stops about two inches above the cables with the floor angles like the
cables are. It's thin aluminum and bolts and screws to the framework and is
very rigid.
I weighed every part I removed when I added my carbon fiber contoured back
bulkhead insert, and removing my glovebox, etc, and then weighed every part
that went into it and my calculations show it probably added a bit under two
pounds total. Now I'll have to do the math when I do weight and balance to
placard it well so no big pilots ever put heavy stuff in there, but with me
weighing 150, I should be able to get a backpackers sleeping bag and tent in
there no problem.
I still have total access to the bottom through the aluminum panel below
that bay.
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Shad's Piet... |
| From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
Same here... and who were the folks working on the Piet wing?
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329848#329848
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "l.morlock" <l.morlock(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing Strut Fitting Angle |
Chris, thanks for the picture. This machined fitting is very similar to
the Piet I saw a few years ago, but not the same one. Based on
everyone's input, I plan to bend the tabs in place to the correct angle.
Larry
----- Original Message -----
From: Chris
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 11:21 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wing Strut Fitting Angle
Larry
A Piet near where Gary Boothe lives had the same problem because they
raised the wing. You can see in the picture in the following link that
they machined an aluminum fitting to bolt between the wing strut and the
lower fitting.
http://westcoastpiet.com/images/O%20Hara%20-%20Howe/images/IMG_3032.JPG
Not sure about the engineering, but their plane has about 40 hours on
it.
Chris
Sacramento, Ca
Westcoastpiet.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry
Morlock
Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 7:02 AM
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing Strut Fitting Angle
I need some advice on how to get the angle of the lower wing strut
fittings to match the angle of the wing struts. There are several
discussions on this in the archives, with the consensus being that the
tabs should be bent up 30 degrees, rather than the 20 degrees shown in
the plans.
My fuselage is already covered and now I find that the tabs need to be
bent up further to the required 30 degree angle. I don't see any way to
bend them in place without damage to the fuselage.
So my question is, would it be OK to bolt an additional tab to the
existing tab to get the correct angle? I saw a Pietenpol with such an
arrangement several years ago. It would cause some bending stress on
the existing tabs, but not sure if this would be a problem.
Any experience out there with this problem? Any other suggestions?
Larry Morlock
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "l.morlock" <l.morlock(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing Strut Fitting Angle |
The ayes have it! Jack, Dan and Dave all agree I should be able to bend
the tabs in place to get the correct angle to match the angle of the
wing struts. I'll give it a try.
Jack, I don't see any way to change the strut ends to match the angle of
the fitting tabs and keep the load along the axis of the strut. I think
this is the basic problem with modifying either the tabs or the struts,
so bending the tabs in place seems to be the best answer.
Thanks for the responses.
Larry
----- Original Message -----
From: Jack Phillips
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 10:20 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wing Strut Fitting Angle
Larry,
Is it not possible to bend the tabs of your existing fittings? If the
bolts and longerons are strong enough to handle flight and landing
loads, I would think that you could bend the tabs with a correctly
designed lever without damaging the structure.
I would make a lever out of a couple of pieces of substantial angle
iron - maybe 8' long 2" x 2", welded together to make a T section (so
you can apply a load without getting a twist) and weld some sort of
receptacle on the end that can slip over the tab on your fuselage
fittings. Have a friend hold the fuselage down and push up on the lever
until you have the desired result.
Otherwise, your idea of an extra fitting to change the angle can
probably be made to work, but needs to be made so that it applies the
load along the axis of the strut. Can your struts be modified to fit
the 20 deg. Angle of your fittings? I know this would impart some
moment to the strut and fitting, but it probably would not be too
severe.
Do you have any pictures of your fitting and the end of your strut?
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Raleigh, NC
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry
Morlock
Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 10:02 AM
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing Strut Fitting Angle
I need some advice on how to get the angle of the lower wing strut
fittings to match the angle of the wing struts. There are several
discussions on this in the archives, with the consensus being that the
tabs should be bent up 30 degrees, rather than the 20 degrees shown in
the plans.
My fuselage is already covered and now I find that the tabs need to be
bent up further to the required 30 degree angle. I don't see any way to
bend them in place without damage to the fuselage.
So my question is, would it be OK to bolt an additional tab to the
existing tab to get the correct angle? I saw a Pietenpol with such an
arrangement several years ago. It would cause some bending stress on
the existing tabs, but not sure if this would be a problem.
Any experience out there with this problem? Any other suggestions?
Larry Morlock
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: leading edge plywood |
| From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
I used these in the 1/4" variety on my wings. I also used several 3/8" and 1/2"
nails on my fuselage and tail feathers.
Per Aircraft Spruce: Flat, bonderized steel nails, brass plated to prevent rusting
and cement coated to improve
holding power. Manufactured to Federal Specification FF-N-105 (formerly AN301).
Order by part no. There are
approximately 9,000 3/8" x 20 steel nails per pound.
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329849#329849
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "l.morlock" <l.morlock(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Larry's strut fittings |
Douwe, I figured out they are at the wrong angle last year when I
mounted the one-piece wing before it was covered, in order to do a
preliminary weight and balance. I hope to mount the finished wing as
soon as it warms up, so just now getting around to figuring out what to
do with the tab angle problem. However, now that you got me thinking
more about it, I think I will wait to bend the tabs as part of mounting
the wing struts so I improve my chances of getting it to the correct
angle.
Larry
----- Original Message -----
From: Douwe Blumberg
To: pietenpolgroup
Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2011 9:32 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Larry's strut fittings
Larry,
First off I'd sure be positive they ARE at the wrong angle before you
did anything. I know you have that one piece wing, but you also have a
ton of room, so I'd jig it up in position and then if any tweaks have to
be made, do it then. I've found that sometimes things look wrong until
it's all together and then it miraculously fits just fine.
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gene Rambo <generambo(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: leading edge plywood |
nails in the rib gussets are not going anywhere. Maybe there is no "pull"
on them. Not sure what it is about leading edge=2C maybe the direction of
the vibrations they undergo=2C like the leading edge plywood vibrates up an
d down vigorously in the slipstream that pulls them out. Remember=2C thoug
h=2C Aeronca (and Citibria) have problems with the nails in the aluminum ri
bs into the spar working out=2C and there is an AD to replace them with rin
ged-shank nails. I guess the vibration up and down in the rib relative to
the spar worked them out. I dont know if ringed nails would stay better in
the leading edge=2C but doubt it. I'd stay away from nails if possible.
Gene
> From: raykrause(at)frontiernet.net
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: leading edge plywood
> Date: Sat=2C 5 Feb 2011 20:52:09 -0800
>
.net>
>
> Do ALL nails in all parts of the plane=2C the ones not removed after glui
ng=2C
> work their way out. Or only on the leading edge?
>
> Ray Krause
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net>
> To:
> Sent: Saturday=2C February 05=2C 2011 4:49 PM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: leading edge plywood
>
>
> >
> > Dang.
> >
> >
> > generambo(at)msn.com wrote:
> >> not an urban legend=2C they WILL work themselves back out.
> >
> >
> > --------
> > Mark Chouinard
> > Wings=2C Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329791#329791
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gene Rambo <generambo(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Paint discussion ad nauseum |
No=2C the Stewart glue won't touch anything at all. I used Helmsman semi-g
loss poly varnish throughout=2C and the Stewart does not do anything to it
=2C nor does nitrate thinner. I think only MEK (and therefore MEK-based Su
per Seam cement) will llift this stuff.
I bought a quart of the expensive two-part epoxy varnish from AS&S that I a
m not going to use. Never opened. Anyone want to buy it off of me at a di
scount to get some of my money back??
Gene
From: raykrause(at)frontiernet.net
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Paint discussion ad nauseum
Date: Sat=2C 5 Feb 2011 16:28:33 -0800
Is the Stewert System glue particular about the varnish that is used under
it? My son-in-law owns the Benjamin Moore paint store in town and recommend
ed a fancy water based varnish that has very high UV protection and is supe
r easy to use=2C glossy and totally waterproof...but very expensive. Start
ed using it on the interior of the fuselage where I will not be able to get
to later on.
Ray Krause
Sky Scout
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene Rambo
Sent: Friday=2C February 04=2C 2011 9:36 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Paint discussion ad nauseum
not the finish=2C but the cement is MEK based!! That is why I am using Stew
art Systems cement to cover=2C even though I am using dope for the finish.
Stewart even blessed me doing that=2C said dope wont hurt the glue. And I
thought they would say I had to use their finishes . . .
Gene Rambo
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Paint discussion ad nauseum
> From: kevin.purtee(at)us.army.mil
> Date: Fri=2C 4 Feb 2011 21:07:46 -0800
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>
.mil>
>
> BTW: MEK is only the cleaning solvent. I'm pretty darn sure that none of
the poly-fiber poly-tone products use MEK in the coatings.
>
> --------
> Kevin "=3BAxel"=3B Purtee
> NX899KP
> Austin/Georgetown=2C TX
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329688#329688
>
>
>
>
> =====================
>===================
>
>
>
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matro
nics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | airlion <airlion(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing Strut Fitting Angle |
I also had to bend my wing strut fitting slightly to line up with the strut
s. I =0Aused a big crescent wrench after bolting them to the fuse. Cheers,
Gardiner=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: l.morloc
k =0ATo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Sun, Febru
ary 6, 2011 10:29:25 AM=0ASubject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wing Strut Fitting A
ngle=0A=0A =0AThe ayes have it! Jack, Dan and Dave all agree I should be
able to bend the =0Atabs in place to get the correct angle to match the an
gle of the wing struts. =0AI'll give it a try.=0A =0AJack, I don't see any
way to change the strut ends to match the angle of the =0Afitting tabs an
d keep the load along the axis of the strut. I think this is =0Athe basic
problem with modifying either the tabs or the struts, so bending the =0At
abs in place seems to be the best answer.=0A =0AThanks for the responses.
=0A =0A Larry=0A =0A----- Original Message ----- =0AFrom: Jack Philli
ps =0A>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com =0A>Sent: Saturday, February 05, 20
11 10:20 AM=0A>Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wing Strut Fitting Angle
=0A>=0A>=0A>Larry,=0A> =0A>Is it not possible to bend the tabs of your e
xisting fittings? If the bolts =0A>and longerons are strong enough to h
andle flight and landing loads, I would =0A>think that you could bend th
e tabs with a correctly designed lever without =0A>damaging the structur
e. =0A>=0A> =0A>I would make a lever out of a couple of pieces of subst
antial angle iron =93 =0A>maybe 8=99 long 2=9D x 2
=9D, welded together to make a T section (so you can apply =0A>a load wi
thout getting a twist) and weld some sort of receptacle on the end =0A>t
hat can slip over the tab on your fuselage fittings. Have a friend hold
the =0A>fuselage down and push up on the lever until you have the desir
ed result.=0A> =0A>Otherwise, your idea of an extra fitting to change
the angle can probably be =0A>made to work, but needs to be made so tha
t it applies the load along the axis =0A>of the strut. Can your struts
be modified to fit the 20 deg. Angle of your =0A>fittings? I know this
would impart some moment to the strut and fitting, but =0A>it probably w
ould not be too severe.=0A> =0A>Do you have any pictures of your fitting
and the end of your strut?=0A> =0A>Jack Phillips=0A>NX899JP
=9CIcarus Plummet=9D=0A>Raleigh, NC=0A> =0A>=0A________________
________________=0A =0A>From:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
=0A>[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry M
orlock=0A>Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 10:02 AM=0A>To: pietenpol-li
st(at)matronics.com=0A>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing Strut Fitting Angle=0A
> =0A>I need some advice on how to get the angle of the lower wing strut
fittings =0A>to match the angle of the wing struts. There are several
discussions on this =0A>in the archives, with the consensus being that t
he tabs should be bent up 30 =0A>degrees, rather than the 20 degrees sho
wn in the plans. =0A>=0A> =0A>My fuselage is already covered and now I f
ind that the tabs need to be bent =0A>up further to the required 30 degree
angle. I don=99t see any way to bend them =0A>in place without da
mage to the fuselage.=0A> =0A>So my question is, would it be OK to bo
lt an additional tab to the existing =0A>tab to get the correct angle?
I saw a Pietenpol with such an arrangement =0A>several years ago. It would
cause some bending stress on the existing tabs, =0A>but not sure if thi
s would be a problem.=0A> =0A>Any experience out there with this prob
============== =0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Shad's Piet... |
I was wondering the same thing. Don't know.
jm
-----Original Message-----
>From: K5YAC <hangar10(at)cox.net>
>Sent: Feb 6, 2011 9:14 AM
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Shad's Piet...
>
>
>Same here... and who were the folks working on the Piet wing?
>
>--------
>Mark Chouinard
>Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329848#329848
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
Raymond:
You might try calling Dean Montgomery in Corsicana, TX. d/b/a/ "Anxiety Air",
to discuss your installation and the symptoms. (908)874-3714. Deanie has rebuilt
four Strombergs for me, but besides that he is also building a Pietenpol
and is converting a Corvair to go on it. He's good people.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
San Antonio, TX
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Covering Processes |
>How long should a fabric and paint application last on a wood framed aircraft,
>before it is removed to merely inspect the frame? Ive been told 10 years is appropriate.
Are you interested in the frame, or the fabric? If your concern is the fabric
just being too old, you can determine that by punch testing it and save the
covering job if it's not weakening. A good fabric job should last a long, long
time. Of course besides the quality of the application it depends on where
you keep the plane and what the climate is like there. If your concern is the
paint job (cracking, fading, chalking), that's a separate topic too.
If your concern is inspecting the frame (due to dry rot, moisture, worry about
glue joints, or whatever), that's yet another thing. It may be necessary to
remove the covering to do that kind of inspection no matter what, although the
inspection cameras on a long flexible snake that are available nowadays are
pretty nifty for looking inside concealed areas.
>Dont think there is a real answer...making it rhetorical. Gary Homer Simpson Boothe
There is a surprising reflection of what middle-class America has become, in the
Simpsons.
And although I've never watched more than just a few minutes of a few of the episodes
in that series, I will say that Lisa blows a mean sax. I have "The Simpsons Sing
The Blues"
on CD and there are some very good cuts on it.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
San Antonio, TX
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "dgaldrich" <dgaldrich(at)embarqmail.com> |
I was checking the FAA index to see what N numbers were available and discovered
that a namesake of mine, Jerry Aldrich, built or at least registered Pietenpol
N899A in 2002 in Alden, Iowa. What are the chances that two people with a
relatively uncommon last name would be involved in Pietenpols? Anybody run into
him or know what happened to his plane? The N-number expires this year on
October so it might be available...
Dave Aldrich
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329866#329866
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Wing Strut Fitting Angle |
Larry,
I liked Dan's suggestion about using a Crescent wrench to bend the tab. If
you find you don't have enough "Oooomph" with a wrench, try slipping a piece
of pipe over the end of the wrench to extend the handle. That should give
better leverage as well as finer control of the bend.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Raleigh, NC
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of l.morlock
Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2011 10:29 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wing Strut Fitting Angle
The ayes have it! Jack, Dan and Dave all agree I should be able to bend the
tabs in place to get the correct angle to match the angle of the wing
struts. I'll give it a try.
Jack, I don't see any way to change the strut ends to match the angle of the
fitting tabs and keep the load along the axis of the strut. I think this is
the basic problem with modifying either the tabs or the struts, so bending
the tabs in place seems to be the best answer.
Thanks for the responses.
Larry
----- Original Message -----
From: Jack <mailto:pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> Phillips
Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 10:20 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wing Strut Fitting Angle
Larry,
Is it not possible to bend the tabs of your existing fittings? If the bolts
and longerons are strong enough to handle flight and landing loads, I would
think that you could bend the tabs with a correctly designed lever without
damaging the structure.
I would make a lever out of a couple of pieces of substantial angle iron -
maybe 8' long 2" x 2", welded together to make a T section (so you can
apply a load without getting a twist) and weld some sort of receptacle on
the end that can slip over the tab on your fuselage fittings. Have a friend
hold the fuselage down and push up on the lever until you have the desired
result.
Otherwise, your idea of an extra fitting to change the angle can probably be
made to work, but needs to be made so that it applies the load along the
axis of the strut. Can your struts be modified to fit the 20 deg. Angle of
your fittings? I know this would impart some moment to the strut and
fitting, but it probably would not be too severe.
Do you have any pictures of your fitting and the end of your strut?
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Raleigh, NC
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry
Morlock
Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 10:02 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing Strut Fitting Angle
I need some advice on how to get the angle of the lower wing strut fittings
to match the angle of the wing struts. There are several discussions on
this in the archives, with the consensus being that the tabs should be bent
up 30 degrees, rather than the 20 degrees shown in the plans.
My fuselage is already covered and now I find that the tabs need to be bent
up further to the required 30 degree angle. I don't see any way to bend
them in place without damage to the fuselage.
So my question is, would it be OK to bolt an additional tab to the existing
tab to get the correct angle? I saw a Pietenpol with such an arrangement
several years ago. It would cause some bending stress on the existing tabs,
but not sure if this would be a problem.
Any experience out there with this problem? Any other suggestions?
Larry Morlock
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ray Krause" <raykrause(at)frontiernet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Paint discussion ad nauseum |
Gene,
Thanks for the response on the nails and the varnish. The loosening of
nails in the leading edge makes sense. But if the leading edge is glued
and nailed, it seems that the movement would be pretty minimal...guess
not. Back to varnishing!
Thanks again,
Ray Krause
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene Rambo
To: pietenpol-list
Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2011 8:27 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Paint discussion ad nauseum
No, the Stewart glue won't touch anything at all. I used Helmsman
semi-gloss poly varnish throughout, and the Stewart does not do anything
to it, nor does nitrate thinner. I think only MEK (and therefore
MEK-based Super Seam cement) will llift this stuff.
I bought a quart of the expensive two-part epoxy varnish from AS&S
that I am not going to use. Never opened. Anyone want to buy it off of
me at a discount to get some of my money back??
Gene
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: raykrause(at)frontiernet.net
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Paint discussion ad nauseum
Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2011 16:28:33 -0800
Is the Stewert System glue particular about the varnish that is used
under it? My son-in-law owns the Benjamin Moore paint store in town and
recommended a fancy water based varnish that has very high UV protection
and is super easy to use, glossy and totally waterproof...but very
expensive. Started using it on the interior of the fuselage where I
will not be able to get to later on.
Ray Krause
Sky Scout
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene Rambo
To: pietenpol-list
Sent: Friday, February 04, 2011 9:36 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Paint discussion ad nauseum
not the finish, but the cement is MEK based!! That is why I am using
Stewart Systems cement to cover, even though I am using dope for the
finish. Stewart even blessed me doing that, said dope wont hurt the
glue. And I thought they would say I had to use their finishes . . .
Gene Rambo
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Paint discussion ad nauseum
> From: kevin.purtee(at)us.army.mil
> Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2011 21:07:46 -0800
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>
>
> BTW: MEK is only the cleaning solvent. I'm pretty darn sure that
none of the poly-fiber poly-tone products use MEK in the coatings.
>
> --------
> Kevin "Axel" Purtee
> NX899KP
> Austin/Georgetown, TX
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329688#329688
>
>
>
>
> =====================
>===================
>
>
>
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
st" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
ttp://forums.matronics.com
=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KM Heide CPO/FAAOP <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com> |
Fellow Pieter's......
-
Can anyone give me the travel on your horizontal elevator (in inches) appro
ximately? Trying to figure out if I have enough travel for my hand trim.
-
Ken H
-
=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Elevator travel |
----- Original Message -----
From: KM Heide CPO/FAAOP
To: Pietenpol
Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2011 3:53 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Elevator travel
Fellow Pieter's......
Can anyone give me the travel on your horizontal elevator (in
inches) approximately? Trying to figure out if I have enough travel for
my hand trim.
Ken H
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Elevator travel |
I read somewhere that elevator travel should be about 30 degrees in each
direction. If anyone knows better, speak up.
----- Original Message -----
From: KM Heide CPO/FAAOP
To: Pietenpol
Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2011 3:53 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Elevator travel
Fellow Pieter's......
Can anyone give me the travel on your horizontal elevator (in
inches) approximately? Trying to figure out if I have enough travel for
my hand trim.
Ken H
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
>From full down to full up my trailing edge moves 23"
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Raleigh, NC
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of KM Heide
CPO/FAAOP
Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2011 3:54 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Elevator travel
Fellow Pieter's......
Can anyone give me the travel on your horizontal elevator (in inches)
approximately? Trying to figure out if I have enough travel for my hand
trim.
Ken H
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Elevator travel |
| From: | "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca> |
>From the LAA, in the UK (where amateur built aircraft are MUCH more regulated):
http://www.lightaircraftassociation.co.uk/engineering/TADs/047%20PIETENPOL%20AIRCAMPER.pdf
They recommend 20 degrees up and 20 degrees down for the elevators.
Mathematically, that works out to just over 6" up and 6" down.
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329896#329896
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Ernest Kestler paint job?? |
I don't think I have the "Jewels" to try that, especially without an invert
ed oil/fuel system
-
Shad
--- On Sat, 2/5/11, TriScout wrote:
From: TriScout <apfelcyber(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Ernest Kestler paint job??
Date: Saturday, February 5, 2011, 7:10 PM
..actual spelling is "Ernst Kessler"... don't forget, you must do the 'outs
ide loop" if you finish that machine.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329784#329784
le, List Admin.
=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Clif Dawson" <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: spar varnish |
The main blockage with traditional spar varnish is the mirror
quality of the gloss. If the UV can't get past the mirror, it
can't do anything. A corollary to this is you can't touch it
once it's applied. No sanding, polishing etc. Just wash it
often as any dust or dirt degrades the mirrorness ( Did I
just say that?! I must have spent too much time around
my daughters!! ). :-)
Clif
Rick,
I didn't exhaustively ck, but I seemed to find that the satin or flat
spar varnishes were not as strong in the UV blocking department.
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Clif Dawson" <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Elevator travel |
Why aren't we out there measuring real life airplanes?
I'm presently renting an early Citabria. It is aerobatic
certified. Although it does have a longer,wider wing,
it is about the same length as a Piet. I haven't measured
the tail surfaces but the elevators appear to have a little
less area than my Piet and they appear to have about
20 or so in deflection. The wheels are a little ahead
of the wing LE in level stance. The engine is a 100hp
O-235. ( I said it was early. :-) )
Take-off is advance throttle and stick together. the tail
comes right up immediately. Landing the thing doesn't
take full rear stick until it quits flying either.
Clif
> They recommend 20 degrees up and 20 degrees down for the elevators.
> Mathematically, that works out to just over 6" up and 6" down.
>
> Bill C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | down to the fuselage |
| From: | "Dangerous Dave" <dsornbor(at)aol.com> |
Howdy,I am finally down to covering the fuselage,So much for being done by my birthday.Maybe
the end of april.dave
--------
Covering Piet
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329930#329930
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/2011_02_06_09_41_43_926_253.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/2011_02_06_09_41_23_311_214.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Elevator travel |
| From: | "Jerry Dotson" <jdotson(at)centurylink.net> |
I have a Luscombe 8 manual and it has the elevator set at 29 degrees up and down.
I set my Piet at 30 degrees each way.
--------
Jerry Dotson
59 Daniel Johnson Rd
Baker, FL 32531
Started building NX510JD July, 2009
wing, tailfeathers done, fuselage rolling
using Lycoming O-235
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329940#329940
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: down to the fuselage |
| From: | "Jerry Dotson" <jdotson(at)centurylink.net> |
Looks like the differential in the background is a bit heavy duty for your Pietenpol
[Wink]
The cover job is looking good.
--------
Jerry Dotson
59 Daniel Johnson Rd
Baker, FL 32531
Started building NX510JD July, 2009
wing, tailfeathers done, fuselage rolling
using Lycoming O-235
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329943#329943
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: down to the fuselage |
| From: | "Dangerous Dave" <dsornbor(at)aol.com> |
figured I use the rear end on the Travel Air 4000 for rough landings and the fire
extinguisher to put out the brake fire if I have one.And thats not only an
eyewash station its my shower,kinda crude up here at 9000'.B'day is the 26th-thanks
Jack dave
--------
Covering Piet
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329949#329949
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "TOM STINEMETZE" <TOMS(at)mcpcity.com> |
| Subject: | Re: leading edge plywood |
Nails, bolts - it doesn't matter; if they are not secured properly they
will work themselves back out. I had quarter inch bolts in an outside
arbor secured with washers and nuts (not lock nuts.) The whole assembly
is secured to the ground on concrete pilings. Yet, in two years all of
the bolts had worked themselves out to a degree. The cause is vibration
created by the wind which will also be the main culprit on an airplane.
Note that aircraft grade nails are epoxy coated - not just for rust
protection but also to help secure them into the wood - kind of like a
decking nail. Friction heat from driving the nail will soften the epoxy
just enough to let it bond with the wood.
Stinemetze
>>> Gene Rambo 2/5/2011 6:30 PM >>>
not an urban legend, they WILL work themselves back out.
Gene
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> |
| Subject: | Re: down to the fuselage |
All great people were born in February. Mine is the 18th. Chuck (Do not
archive)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dangerous Dave" <dsornbor(at)aol.com>
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 8:53 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: down to the fuselage
>
> figured I use the rear end on the Travel Air 4000 for rough landings and
> the fire extinguisher to put out the brake fire if I have one.And thats
> not only an eyewash station its my shower,kinda crude up here at
> 9000'.B'day is the 26th-thanks Jack dave
>
> --------
> Covering Piet
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329949#329949
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> |
| Subject: | Re: leading edge plywood |
Tom, I drilled small holes to make my nails go in truer and easier.
Would that defeat the purpose of the epoxy coating?
----- Original Message -----
From: TOM STINEMETZE
To: pietenpol-list
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 9:33 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: leading edge plywood
Nails, bolts - it doesn't matter; if they are not secured properly
they will work themselves back out. I had quarter inch bolts in an
outside arbor secured with washers and nuts (not lock nuts.) The whole
assembly is secured to the ground on concrete pilings. Yet, in two
years all of the bolts had worked themselves out to a degree. The cause
is vibration created by the wind which will also be the main culprit on
an airplane. Note that aircraft grade nails are epoxy coated - not just
for rust protection but also to help secure them into the wood - kind of
like a decking nail. Friction heat from driving the nail will soften
the epoxy just enough to let it bond with the wood.
Stinemetze
>>> Gene Rambo 2/5/2011 6:30 PM >>>
not an urban legend, they WILL work themselves back out.
Gene
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Room For Bungee Cord |
On average, how much space is needed between the landing gear ash block and wheel/brake
assembly for the bungee cords to lay on the axle? Also, are the bungee
cord wraps laid out only side by side to each other, (single layer...more space
needed) or are they stacked up on top of one another? (less space needed on
axle) Does it matter?
I am getting close to laying out my axle for the various components that get welded
to it, and would like to know how much room is needed for the bungees.
Michael Perez
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "TriScout" <apfelcyber(at)yahoo.com> |
..speaking of "small world"... I work with this guy that has the same last name
as yours. We fly cargo all over the world. His dad built a Pietenpol once. Who
woulda thunk it? He goes by Steve though... nah... couldn't be.
larry
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329967#329967
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Shad's Piet... |
Jim, What is The Aviators?- A new show?- I will have to do a google sea
rch I guess.
-
Shad
--- On Sun, 2/6/11, Jim Markle wrote:
From: Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Shad's Piet...
Date: Sunday, February 6, 2011, 9:53 AM
>
Just saw a (VERY quick) shot of the Bell's Piet on "The Aviators"....
Great show and neat to see a familiar Air Camper on my TV!!!
JM
le, List Admin.
=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "TOM STINEMETZE" <TOMS(at)mcpcity.com> |
| Subject: | Re: leading edge plywood |
Just guessing Charles but, since it is friction that causes the epoxy to
bond, anything that reduces the friction would also reduce the chance that
the epoxy would get hot enough to bond. On the up side, though, it would
also make the nails much easier to remove AND greatly reduce the chances
of splitting those quarter inch thick spar caps that you are nailing into.
Stinemetze
>>> "Charles Campbell" 2/7/2011 8:55 AM >>>
Tom, I drilled small holes to make my nails go in truer and easier. Would
that defeat the purpose of the epoxy coating?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Room For Bungee Cord |
Just measured mine (I happen to be in the hangar at Smith Mountain Lake
this
morning). 2.25=94 between the brake disc and the V block on each side,
which
allows room for 3 wraps of =BD=94 bungee (and you might be able to
squeeze in a
fourth wrap).
The bungess will wrap the way they want to, and will go side to side if
possible. If you try to wrap them on top of each other and there is
room
for them to go side to side, they will do so at the first opportunity,
releasing most of the tension you so laboriously put in them.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP =93Icarus Plummet=94
Raleigh, NC
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael
Perez
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 10:10 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Room For Bungee Cord
On average, how much space is needed between the landing gear ash block
and
wheel/brake assembly for the bungee cords to lay on the axle? Also, are
the
bungee cord wraps laid out only side by side to each other, (single
layer...more space needed) or are they stacked up on top of one another?
(less space needed on axle) Does it matter?
I am getting close to laying out my axle for the various components that
get
welded to it, and would like to know how much room is needed for the
bungees.
Michael Perez
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
It's a really good aviation related half hour program shown on local PBS stations.
In our area, it's on at 8:30am on Sundays and (I think) sometime during the
week, Wednesday afternoon maybe.
Produced by a Canadian production company so there's a lot about those fellows
up north. They interviewed some of the folks building a Piet wing at Oshkosh.
Interesting episode.
Mark C. told me about it and I'm glad he did, I've yet to see any advertising anywhere....
JM
-----Original Message-----
From: shad bell
Sent: Feb 7, 2011 9:34 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Shad's Piet...
Jim, What is The Aviators? A new show? I will have to do a google search I guess.
Shad
--- On Sun, 2/6/11, Jim Markle wrote:
From: Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Shad's Piet...
Date: Sunday, February 6, 2011, 9:53 AM
Just saw a (VERY quick) shot of the Bell's Piet on "The Aviators"....
Great show and neat to see a familiar Air Camper=======================
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
_sp; --> ht= -->
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Room For Bungee Cord |
Thanks Jack. That's a good number to start planning with.
Michael Perez
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: leading edge plywood |
| From: | Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
I used 1/4" staples and pulled em out.
On Mon, Feb 7, 2011 at 7:33 AM, TOM STINEMETZE wrote:
> *Nails, bolts - it doesn't matter; if they are not secured properly they
> will work themselves back out. I had quarter inch bolts in an outside arbor
> secured with washers and nuts (not lock nuts.) The whole assembly is
> secured to the ground on concrete pilings. Yet, in two years all of the
> bolts had worked themselves out to a degree. The cause is vibration created
> by the wind which will also be the main culprit on an airplane. Note that
> aircraft grade nails are epoxy coated - not just for rust protection but
> also to help secure them into the wood - kind of like a decking nail.
> Friction heat from driving the nail will soften the epoxy just enough to let
> it bond with the wood.*
> **
> *Stinemetze*
>
>
> >>> Gene Rambo 2/5/2011 6:30 PM >>>
> not an urban legend, they WILL work themselves back out.
>
> Gene
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"A Foolish Consistency is the Hobgoblin of Little Minds"
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: down to the fuselage |
| From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
Never mind that Jesus guy, right?
Chuck Campbell wrote:
> All great people were born in February. Mine is the 18th. Chuck (Do not
> archive)
>
> ---
[Laughing]
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330000#330000
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Shad's Piet... |
| From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
I know you asked Jim, but "The Aviators" is a program that airs on PBS, Sunday
mornings at 8:30. It has been on the air since last fall... a pretty good program
about general, commercial and military aviation. They cover a variety of
interesting topics... this week they were talking about homebuilding and featured
a group working on a Piet wing to describe some of the woodworking aspects.
Sponsored by EAA, AOPA and others... always a good show.
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330002#330002
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: leading edge plywood |
| From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
I safety wired all my nails. [Rolling Eyes]
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330005#330005
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "dgaldrich" <dgaldrich(at)embarqmail.com> |
Several years ago, I was jumpseating on an American 727 (sorta dates things) and
introduced myself to the captain. His reply was "No, I'M Dave Aldrich!!" It
really was, even still have his business card.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330007#330007
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> |
| Subject: | Re: leading edge plywood |
That must have been some TINY safety wire! Don't archive unless you want
to.
----- Original Message -----
From: "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net>
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 1:08 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: leading edge plywood
>
> I safety wired all my nails. [Rolling Eyes]
>
> --------
> Mark Chouinard
> Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330005#330005
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack" <jack(at)textors.com> |
| Subject: | The Aviators Link |
http://www.theaviators.tv/TheAviators.TV_-_Home.html
Jack
DSM
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | After years of reading I thought I'd finally sign up... |
| From: | "aerocarjake" <flight.jake(at)gmail.com> |
Howdy List...
THANKS for all the great posts I have read over the last several years - thought
I'd join the conversation.
I started my Pietenpol a little over two years ago and yesterday I moved it out
of the shop with the engine mounted for the first time. Since I am building my
Piet in a one-car garage/workshop, it works out great to move the fuselage over
to the next "bay" so I have room to fabricate the parts. My temporary landing
gear lets me move it around like a wheelbarrow until I fabricate the actual
flight-worthy undercarriage.
I have attached my most recent photo (from yesterday - a real "super" day in more
ways than one) and below is the link to my project on the ROTEC engine webpage.
http://www.rotecengines.com/Projects/JakeSchultz.html
Glad to have chatted with many of you offline. I look forward to this continued
Pietenpol adventure with many of you as well...
Jake
--------
Jake Schultz - curator,
Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330012#330012
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/engine_outdoors_142.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: After years of reading I thought I'd finally sign |
up...
| From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
Wow and Neat-o! Welcome to the list Jake!
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330017#330017
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | UPDATE and return to life! |
| From: | Mark Roberts <mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com> |
Hi All!
Well, in the pursute of building a dream, life happens. I began my
quest of building the Piet a year and a half ago, while I was employed
and enjoying life. 2 months later, a lay off that lasted 1 year and 3
months occurred and I bowed out of the project until it made sence to
buy epoxy and wood over food and toilet paper... (somethings just
can't be postponed, and the Sears catalog isn't autoshipped
anymore...).
Well, about 6 weeks ago I signed a contract that is beginning to
actually send money to me, and I am able to begin to wave the flame of
the dream back to life. It will be another couple of months before I
can justify the time I need to begin making sawdust, but I had to log
on and let some of the fine folks I have met here know I am coming
back to life... :o)
To that end, I HAVE to share where we'll be moving this week... First,
the readers digest version of what's up: No income=no house
payment=lose house=need to rent (and celebrate, as I HATED our current
house... Gated community, no privacy, not big enough to build plane
comfortably)=gotta move.... Got new job JUST in time (who rent's to
unemployed no-income for a year and 3 months family?)=cash flow=look
for perfect house=found one (the only one that actually called me back
in earnest)=UNREAL side benefit....
OK, now that that's over, here's the cool stuff I've wanted to share
with those that know me on the list... The place comes with a BARN
that has a concrete floor and is 2 stories tall! (Pictures attached).
I have full access to the barn, and it is big enough to build 2 planes
at once... This is no animal critter barn, but an airplane building
barn! When I saw it, I tried not to let it effect my decision to move
there. If the rest wasn't right, the deal would be over... BUT, it all
fell into place perfectly, and this week we move to 'the country'
where I will begin to help mulch my wife's garden with Spruce and
Poplar sawdust!
More as I finally develop a web-log to build my Build History (any
suggestion greatly appreciated...) and pictures will be forthcoming.
Here's the pic's I took of the Barn when I took my wife out to show
her the house for the first time... Woo Hoo! (Oh, and solar panels on
the house feed the meter here BACKWARDS so I have no electrical
expense... Life is good...! :o)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "TOM STINEMETZE" <TOMS(at)mcpcity.com> |
| Subject: | Re: UPDATE and return to life! |
ALL RIGHT, Mark! We're pulling for you man.
Stinemetze
>>> Mark Roberts 2/7/2011 1:21 PM >>>
Here's the pic's I took of the Barn when I took my wife out to show
her the house for the first time... Woo Hoo! (Oh, and solar panels on
the house feed the meter here BACKWARDS so I have no electrical
expense... Life is good...! :o)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Groah <dskogrover(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: UPDATE and return to life! |
That's great to hear Mark. Glad you're climbing back up and getting back on your
Piet. If I don't get to see you before then I hope you can come to the West
Coast Pietenpol Gathering June 4th. (I'll get an info sheet sent out soon).
Mike Groah
Tulare Ca
Sent from my iPhone
On Feb 7, 2011, at 11:21 AM, Mark Roberts wrote:
> Hi All!
>
> Well, in the pursute of building a dream, life happens. I began my
> quest of building the Piet a year and a half ago, while I was employed
> and enjoying life. 2 months later, a lay off that lasted 1 year and 3
> months occurred and I bowed out of the project until it made sence to
> buy epoxy and wood over food and toilet paper... (somethings just
> can't be postponed, and the Sears catalog isn't autoshipped
> anymore...).
>
> Well, about 6 weeks ago I signed a contract that is beginning to
> actually send money to me, and I am able to begin to wave the flame of
> the dream back to life. It will be another couple of months before I
> can justify the time I need to begin making sawdust, but I had to log
> on and let some of the fine folks I have met here know I am coming
> back to life... :o)
>
> To that end, I HAVE to share where we'll be moving this week... First,
> the readers digest version of what's up: No income=no house
> payment=lose house=need to rent (and celebrate, as I HATED our current
> house... Gated community, no privacy, not big enough to build plane
> comfortably)=gotta move.... Got new job JUST in time (who rent's to
> unemployed no-income for a year and 3 months family?)=cash flow=look
> for perfect house=found one (the only one that actually called me back
> in earnest)=UNREAL side benefit....
>
> OK, now that that's over, here's the cool stuff I've wanted to share
> with those that know me on the list... The place comes with a BARN
> that has a concrete floor and is 2 stories tall! (Pictures attached).
> I have full access to the barn, and it is big enough to build 2 planes
> at once... This is no animal critter barn, but an airplane building
> barn! When I saw it, I tried not to let it effect my decision to move
> there. If the rest wasn't right, the deal would be over... BUT, it all
> fell into place perfectly, and this week we move to 'the country'
> where I will begin to help mulch my wife's garden with Spruce and
> Poplar sawdust!
>
> More as I finally develop a web-log to build my Build History (any
> suggestion greatly appreciated...) and pictures will be forthcoming.
>
> Here's the pic's I took of the Barn when I took my wife out to show
> her the house for the first time... Woo Hoo! (Oh, and solar panels on
> the house feed the meter here BACKWARDS so I have no electrical
> expense... Life is good...! :o)
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Covering Processes |
| From: | "DOMIT" <rx7_ragtop(at)yahoo.com> |
Bill Church wrote:
> Like this?
>
> http://www.westcoastpiet.com/images/Brown%20Aero/images/nx37979.jpg
>
>
> Bill C.
Ummmm... errr... uhhhh... DROOL! :P
--------
Brad "DOMIT" Smith
First rule of ground school: This is the ground... don't hit it going fast.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330028#330028
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
You ever meet Captain Oveur on any of those flights ?:)
*Roger Murdock <http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000717/>*: Flight 2-0-9'er, you
are cleared for take-off.
*Captain Oveur <http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0336335/>*: Roger!
*Roger Murdock <http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000717/>*: Huh?
*Tower voice*: L.A. departure frequency, 123 point 9'er.
*Captain Oveur <http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0336335/>*: Roger!
*Roger Murdock <http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000717/>*: Huh?
*Victor Basta <http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0039149/>*: Request vector, over.
*Captain Oveur <http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0336335/>*: What?
*Tower voice*: Flight 2-0-9'er cleared for vector 324.
*Roger Murdock <http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000717/>*: We have clearance,
Clarence.
*Captain Oveur <http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0336335/>*: Roger, Roger. What's
our vector, Victor?
*Tower voice*: Tower's radio clearance, over!
*Captain Oveur <http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0336335/>*: That's Clarence
Oveur. Over.
*Tower voice*: Over.
*Captain Oveur <http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0336335/>*: Roger.
*Roger Murdock <http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000717/>*: Huh?
*Tower voice*: Roger, over!
*Roger Murdock <http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000717/>*: What?
*Captain Oveur <http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0336335/>*: Huh?
*Victor Basta <http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0039149/>*: Who?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVq4_HhBK8Y
On Mon, Feb 7, 2011 at 11:30 AM, dgaldrich wrote:
> dgaldrich(at)embarqmail.com>
>
> Several years ago, I was jumpseating on an American 727 (sorta dates
> things) and introduced myself to the captain. His reply was "No, I'M Dave
> Aldrich!!" It really was, even still have his business card.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330007#330007
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"A Foolish Consistency is the Hobgoblin of Little Minds"
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: After years of reading I thought I'd finally sign |
up...
| From: | Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
Nice work Jake. Another ROTEC Piet, it will be beautiful. We are all jealous
(except for Dick N.)
rick
On Mon, Feb 7, 2011 at 11:47 AM, aerocarjake wrote:
> >
>
> Howdy List...
>
> THANKS for all the great posts I have read over the last several years -
> thought I'd join the conversation.
>
> I started my Pietenpol a little over two years ago and yesterday I moved it
> out of the shop with the engine mounted for the first time. Since I am
> building my Piet in a one-car garage/workshop, it works out great to move
> the fuselage over to the next "bay" so I have room to fabricate the parts.
> My temporary landing gear lets me move it around like a wheelbarrow until I
> fabricate the actual flight-worthy undercarriage.
>
> I have attached my most recent photo (from yesterday - a real "super" day
> in more ways than one) and below is the link to my project on the ROTEC
> engine webpage.
>
> http://www.rotecengines.com/Projects/JakeSchultz.html
>
> Glad to have chatted with many of you offline. I look forward to this
> continued Pietenpol adventure with many of you as well...
>
> Jake
>
> --------
> Jake Schultz - curator,
> Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home)
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330012#330012
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/engine_outdoors_142.jpg
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"A Foolish Consistency is the Hobgoblin of Little Minds"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | After years of reading I thought I'd finally sign |
up...
Looks beautiful, Jake. Where are you located?
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Raleigh, NC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of aerocarjake
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 1:47 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: After years of reading I thought I'd finally sign
up...
Howdy List...
THANKS for all the great posts I have read over the last several years -
thought I'd join the conversation.
I started my Pietenpol a little over two years ago and yesterday I moved it
out of the shop with the engine mounted for the first time. Since I am
building my Piet in a one-car garage/workshop, it works out great to move
the fuselage over to the next "bay" so I have room to fabricate the parts.
My temporary landing gear lets me move it around like a wheelbarrow until I
fabricate the actual flight-worthy undercarriage.
I have attached my most recent photo (from yesterday - a real "super" day in
more ways than one) and below is the link to my project on the ROTEC engine
webpage.
http://www.rotecengines.com/Projects/JakeSchultz.html
Glad to have chatted with many of you offline. I look forward to this
continued Pietenpol adventure with many of you as well...
Jake
--------
Jake Schultz - curator,
Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330012#330012
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/engine_outdoors_142.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: UPDATE and return to life! |
| From: | Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
Hell you could build 2 or 3 one piece wings at once in there. Glad your
back in the saddle again Mark.
rick
On Mon, Feb 7, 2011 at 12:21 PM, Mark Roberts wrote:
> Hi All!
>
> Well, in the pursute of building a dream, life happens. I began my
> quest of building the Piet a year and a half ago, while I was employed
> and enjoying life. 2 months later, a lay off that lasted 1 year and 3
> months occurred and I bowed out of the project until it made sence to
> buy epoxy and wood over food and toilet paper... (somethings just
> can't be postponed, and the Sears catalog isn't autoshipped
> anymore...).
>
> Well, about 6 weeks ago I signed a contract that is beginning to
> actually send money to me, and I am able to begin to wave the flame of
> the dream back to life. It will be another couple of months before I
> can justify the time I need to begin making sawdust, but I had to log
> on and let some of the fine folks I have met here know I am coming
> back to life... :o)
>
> To that end, I HAVE to share where we'll be moving this week... First,
> the readers digest version of what's up: No income=no house
> payment=lose house=need to rent (and celebrate, as I HATED our current
> house... Gated community, no privacy, not big enough to build plane
> comfortably)=gotta move.... Got new job JUST in time (who rent's to
> unemployed no-income for a year and 3 months family?)=cash flow=look
> for perfect house=found one (the only one that actually called me back
> in earnest)=UNREAL side benefit....
>
> OK, now that that's over, here's the cool stuff I've wanted to share
> with those that know me on the list... The place comes with a BARN
> that has a concrete floor and is 2 stories tall! (Pictures attached).
> I have full access to the barn, and it is big enough to build 2 planes
> at once... This is no animal critter barn, but an airplane building
> barn! When I saw it, I tried not to let it effect my decision to move
> there. If the rest wasn't right, the deal would be over... BUT, it all
> fell into place perfectly, and this week we move to 'the country'
> where I will begin to help mulch my wife's garden with Spruce and
> Poplar sawdust!
>
> More as I finally develop a web-log to build my Build History (any
> suggestion greatly appreciated...) and pictures will be forthcoming.
>
> Here's the pic's I took of the Barn when I took my wife out to show
> her the house for the first time... Woo Hoo! (Oh, and solar panels on
> the house feed the meter here BACKWARDS so I have no electrical
> expense... Life is good...! :o)
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"A Foolish Consistency is the Hobgoblin of Little Minds"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "TriScout" <apfelcyber(at)yahoo.com> |
I'll ask Steve next time I see him. I believe they're from Alden, Iowa. His dad
built a corvair Pietenpol. From what I understand, his dad got the private ticket
in order to be able to fly his Piet, but never got it off the ground... kept
ground looping, then repairing it while trying to high speed taxi it I believe.
His son showed me photos of it. It looked as though he put a castering wheel
on the back (like furniture wheel. I told Steve to tell his dad to put a
real tailwheel on it and maybe it won't groundloop so easily... that was about
a year ago.. don't know what the current status is on it. He did say it's always
for sale if I wanted it, but I figured that I could find a nice continental
one that's flying for about 2/3 what he was asking for it.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330052#330052
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "skellytown flyer" <skellflyer1(at)yahoo.com> |
Well after much encouragement from Oscar and a strong recommendation from William
Wynn. the carb got shipped off to the D&G shop today. I have new hardware
coming to re-mount it with the shaft to the right side of the aircraft instead
of forward. though Russ at D&G didn't think that was really a likely source of
my problem.( it certainly could have caused an un-even flow situation side to
side at partial throttle)and I'm sitting on hold waiting for parts to come in
to re-mount it and hopefully be at the end of my hesitation problems.thanks
to those who tried to help with advice. Raymond
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330066#330066
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | need help with wiring |
Hey all,
I'm kinda getting close to wiring up my 0200. I'm going to leave the
starter, generator and have a battery, but obviously other than that, a very
minimal system. Just enough to start and run my smoke and a couple of
cigarette adapters in the cockpit.
I've been studying wiring diagrams in Bingilis' books and I pretty much get
it, but am wondering if there's someone out there who is pretty comfortable
with this stuff that would volunteer to walk me through it and answer
questions along the way.
Thanks!
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: After years of reading I thought I'd finally sign |
up...
| From: | "aerocarjake" <flight.jake(at)gmail.com> |
Jack, i'm in Issaquah WA, which is an eastside suburb of Seattle.... long ways
from nc but I hope to visit Asheville later this year
--------
Jake Schultz - curator,
Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330070#330070
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | steel fuselage and engine weight |
| From: | "MPB" <mike(at)seatec.us> |
It appears on the plans that the steel fuselage was designed for the Corvair.
Does anyone have the weight of the Corvair. I ask because I want to put an 0200
in it (at about 170 lbs) and want to know if I am going to have a problem with
the CG.
Thanks all,
Mike
Prunedale, CA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330082#330082
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | steel fuselage and engine weight |
The steel fuselage was designed about 30 years before the Corvair was
spawned. An O-200 should work just fine in it. I believe Roman Bukolt has
an O-200 in his steel fuselage Piet but I'm not certain of that.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Raleigh, NC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of MPB
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 9:10 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: steel fuselage and engine weight
It appears on the plans that the steel fuselage was designed for the
Corvair. Does anyone have the weight of the Corvair. I ask because I want
to put an 0200 in it (at about 170 lbs) and want to know if I am going to
have a problem with the CG.
Thanks all,
Mike
Prunedale, CA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330082#330082
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Piet Directory |
| From: | "kevinpurtee" <kevin.purtee(at)us.army.mil> |
Well, crap, Dick. I'm in Arizona. However! Oscar Zuniga is in San Antonio.
--------
Kevin "Axel" Purtee
NX899KP
Austin/Georgetown, TX
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330088#330088
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: UPDATE and return to life! |
| From: | Mark Roberts <mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com> |
Well, what a great group of folks!
My wife just made a face when she heard I posted the pics....
Somethings just don't translate well into 'Wife Speak'... If there's a
translation manual out there similar to the Great Waldo Pepper
Quotes-translation manual, please forward it to me. She just kinda has
that look on her face that says "I'm glad it makes you happy. Now, can
you please pack a box?"
I stopped back at the woodshed where I tried to start up the wood kit
business, and I hope to be getting some nice, Sitka spruce soon and
start making some little wood chips in a few weeks!
Woo Hoo! Thanks for all the nice encouragement. I am really excited
about the new Man Cave :o) !
Oh Yeah.... I forgot to mention that even though I am not working down
at the Woodshed anymore, I still have a 4 x 4 foot 3 axis router I
plan to use to make jigs for all the major parts of the plane. Since I
have drawn most of the big parts into my SketchUp program to scratch
the 'build' itch without spending money, I can now simply import them
into my CAM program and punch holes where the jig pegs need to be! The
fuse jig will assemble in parts like a jigsaw puzzle, and hopefully
make the build a bit speedier... We'll see...
Thanks again for the happy encouragement!
Mark
On Mon, Feb 7, 2011 at 1:05 PM, Rick Holland wrote:
> Hell you could build 2 or 3 one piece wings at once in there. Glad your
> back in the saddle again Mark.
>
> rick
>
> On Mon, Feb 7, 2011 at 12:21 PM, Mark Roberts wrote:
>>
>> Hi All!
>>
>> Well, in the pursute of building a dream, life happens. I began my
>> quest of building the Piet a year and a half ago, while I was employed
>> and enjoying life. 2 months later, a lay off that lasted 1 year and 3
>> months occurred and I bowed out of the project until it made sence to
>> buy epoxy and wood over food and toilet paper... (somethings just
>> can't be postponed, and the Sears catalog isn't autoshipped
>> anymore...).
>>
>> Well, about 6 weeks ago I signed a contract that is beginning to
>> actually send money to me, and I am able to begin to wave the flame of
>> the dream back to life. It will be another couple of months before I
>> can justify the time I need to begin making sawdust, but I had to log
>> on and let some of the fine folks I have met here know I am coming
>> back to life... :o)
>>
>> To that end, I HAVE to share where we'll be moving this week... First,
>> the readers digest version of what's up: No income=no house
>> payment=lose house=need to rent (and celebrate, as I HATED our current
>> house... Gated community, no privacy, not big enough to build plane
>> comfortably)=gotta move.... Got new job JUST in time (who rent's to
>> unemployed no-income for a year and 3 months family?)=cash flow=look
>> for perfect house=found one (the only one that actually called me back
>> in earnest)=UNREAL side benefit....
>>
>> OK, now that that's over, here's the cool stuff I've wanted to share
>> with those that know me on the list... The place comes with a BARN
>> that has a concrete floor and is 2 stories tall! (Pictures attached).
>> I have full access to the barn, and it is big enough to build 2 planes
>> at once... This is no animal critter barn, but an airplane building
>> barn! When I saw it, I tried not to let it effect my decision to move
>> there. If the rest wasn't right, the deal would be over... BUT, it all
>> fell into place perfectly, and this week we move to 'the country'
>> where I will begin to help mulch my wife's garden with Spruce and
>> Poplar sawdust!
>>
>> More as I finally develop a web-log to build my Build History (any
>> suggestion greatly appreciated...) and pictures will be forthcoming.
>>
>> Here's the pic's I took of the Barn when I took my wife out to show
>> her the house for the first time... Woo Hoo! (Oh, and solar panels on
>> the house feed the meter here BACKWARDS so I have no electrical
>> expense... Life is good...! :o)
>
>
> --
> Rick Holland
> Castle Rock, Colorado
>
> "A Foolish Consistency is the Hobgoblin of Little Minds"
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Cardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Room For Bungee Cord |
Michael,
No brakes on NX18235 but this will give you an idea how much space you
will need for 3 wraps of 1/2" bungee cord.
Greg Cardinal
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Perez
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 9:10 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Room For Bungee Cord
On average, how much space is needed between the landing gear
ash block and wheel/brake assembly for the bungee cords to lay on the
axle? Also, are the bungee cord wraps laid out only side by side to each
other, (single layer...more space needed) or are they stacked up on top
of one another? (less space needed on axle) Does it matter?
I am getting close to laying out my axle for the various
components that get welded to it, and would like to know how much room
is needed for the bungees.
Michael Perez
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au> |
| Subject: | need help with wiring |
Douwe,
Attached is a copy of my 601XLB with an O-200. You can leave out a lot of
the stuff and the alternator will change to a generator. I have a diagram of
that somewhere if you would like.
Cheers
Peter
Wonthaggi Australia
http://www.cpc-world.com
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Douwe
Blumberg
Sent: Tuesday, 8 February 2011 11:50 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: need help with wiring
Hey all,
I'm kinda getting close to wiring up my 0200. I'm going to leave the
starter, generator and have a battery, but obviously other than that, a very
minimal system. Just enough to start and run my smoke and a couple of
cigarette adapters in the cockpit.
I've been studying wiring diagrams in Bingilis' books and I pretty much get
it, but am wondering if there's someone out there who is pretty comfortable
with this stuff that would volunteer to walk me through it and answer
questions along the way.
Thanks!
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Clif Dawson" <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Room For Bungee Cord |
Here's mine. The brakes will add 1/4" between wheel and
collar.
On average, how much space is needed between the landing gear
ash block and wheel/brake assembly for the bungee cords to lay on the
axle? Also, are the bungee cord wraps laid out only side by side to each
other,Michael Perez
Karetaker Aero
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: UPDATE and return to life! |
| From: | "Billy McCaskill" <billmz(at)cox.net> |
Glad to hear that things are turning around and starting to work out in your favor
again Mark! Can't wait to read updates about Piet parts being made soon!
--------
Billy McCaskill
Urbana, IL
tail section almost done, starting on ribs soon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330106#330106
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Clif Dawson" <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: down to the fuselage |
Well! Nice to see us Februaries are recognized so grandly.
Feb 25 for me.
>
> All great people were born in February. Mine is the 18th. Chuck (Do not
> archive)
.B'day is the 26th-thanks Jack dave
>>
>> --------
>> Covering Piet
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Room For Bungee Cord |
Thanks for the nice pictures guys. Clif, I see that you used cast wheels, care
to share a picture of them? Hard to tell what they look like in bungee photo.
Michael Perez
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | From Everett WA.... |
So how far is Issaquah from Everett? 30 minutes maybe? I'm in Everett for a couple
days and would welcome a Piet visit while I'm here....
JM
-----Original Message-----
>From: aerocarjake <flight.jake(at)gmail.com>
>Sent: Feb 7, 2011 5:02 PM
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: After years of reading I thought I'd finally sign
up...
>
>
>Jack, i'm in Issaquah WA, which is an eastside suburb of Seattle.... long ways
from nc but I hope to visit Asheville later this year
>
>--------
>Jake Schultz - curator,
>Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home)
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330070#330070
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: need help with wiring |
| From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
Douwe:
I forget who originally offered this... it is not my work, but you might find if
helpful.
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330156#330156
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/piet_wiring_211.pdf
________________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Barry Davis" <bed(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | need help with wiring |
Let me know what you need
Barry Davis
(If you contact me off-group, please put "EAA" somewhere in the subject
line. I read all of those emails)
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Douwe
Blumberg
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 7:50 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: need help with wiring
Hey all,
I'm kinda getting close to wiring up my 0200. I'm going to leave the
starter, generator and have a battery, but obviously other than that, a very
minimal system. Just enough to start and run my smoke and a couple of
cigarette adapters in the cockpit.
I've been studying wiring diagrams in Bingilis' books and I pretty much get
it, but am wondering if there's someone out there who is pretty comfortable
with this stuff that would volunteer to walk me through it and answer
questions along the way.
Thanks!
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: steel fuselage and engine weight |
| From: | "Jerry Dotson" <jdotson(at)centurylink.net> |
This has nothing to do with engine weight. Jack mentioned Roman Bukolt. If you
look at my avatar you will see a 1/4 scale Fleet Model 2 biplane. It is over 10
years old and still is like new. Roman built the kit. He builds as good of a
kit as I have ever seen. Just wanted to give kudos to him.
--------
Jerry Dotson
59 Daniel Johnson Rd
Baker, FL 32531
Started building NX510JD July, 2009
wing, tailfeathers done, fuselage rolling
using Lycoming O-235
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330172#330172
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> |
| Subject: | Re: need help with wiring |
Mark, I've been trying to get the post that you sent at 10:48 this morning.
The link doesn't work. It keeps kicking off and I get a message to send an
error report. Will you check it and see if it's the link or my computer?
Tnx
----- Original Message -----
From: "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net>
Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 10:48 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: need help with wiring
>
> Douwe:
>
> I forget who originally offered this... it is not my work, but you might
> find if helpful.
>
> --------
> Mark Chouinard
> Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330156#330156
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/piet_wiring_211.pdf
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Shad's Piet... |
| From: | "gtche98" <gtche98(at)gmail.com> |
Looks like an interesting program, but alas, Wisconsin PBS does not carry it, and
$15 for a membership to the website to view episodes on line seems kinda steep.
Oh well...
--------
Gary Wilson
Greenville Wisconsin
gtche98 (at) gmail ((dot)) com
Planning Phase
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330175#330175
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: need help with wiring |
| From: | Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com> |
The link works fine. Do you have a PDF reader installed on your computer? If
not, I would recommend Foxit.....far less annoying than Adobe Reader:
http://www.foxitsoftware.com/pdf/reader/addons.php
<http://www.foxitsoftware.com/pdf/reader/addons.php>Install like you did
with OpenOffice.....
Ryan
On Tue, Feb 8, 2011 at 11:26 AM, Charles Campbell wrote:
> cncampbell(at)windstream.net>
>
> Mark, I've been trying to get the post that you sent at 10:48 this morning.
> The link doesn't work. It keeps kicking off and I get a message to send an
> error report. Will you check it and see if it's the link or my computer?
> Tnx
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net>
> To:
> Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 10:48 AM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: need help with wiring
>
>
>>
>> Douwe:
>>
>> I forget who originally offered this... it is not my work, but you might
>> find if helpful.
>>
>> --------
>> Mark Chouinard
>> Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330156#330156
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Attachments:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com//files/piet_wiring_211.pdf
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: down to the fuselage |
| From: | "gtche98" <gtche98(at)gmail.com> |
Feb 13 for me!
--------
Gary Wilson
Greenville Wisconsin
gtche98 (at) gmail ((dot)) com
Planning Phase
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330177#330177
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: need help with wiring |
| From: | Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
Attached my CSC wiring diagram, may be able to learn something from it,
just need to drop the coils, condenser, and coil switcher.
On Mon, Feb 7, 2011 at 10:39 PM, Peter W Johnson wro
te:
> Douwe,
>
>
> Attached is a copy of my 601XLB with an O-200. You can leave out a lot of
> the stuff and the alternator will change to a generator. I have a diagram
of
> that somewhere if you would like.
>
>
> Cheers
>
>
> Peter
>
> Wonthaggi Australia
>
> http://www.cpc-world.com
>
>
> *From:* owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Douwe Blumberg
> *Sent:* Tuesday, 8 February 2011 11:50 AM
> *To:* pietenpolgroup
> *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: need help with wiring
>
>
> Hey all,
>
>
> I=92m kinda getting close to wiring up my 0200. I=92m going to leave the
> starter, generator and have a battery, but obviously other than that, a v
ery
> minimal system. Just enough to start and run my smoke and a couple of
> cigarette adapters in the cockpit.
>
>
> I=92ve been studying wiring diagrams in Bingilis=92 books and I pretty mu
ch get
> it, but am wondering if there=92s someone out there who is pretty comfort
able
> with this stuff that would volunteer to walk me through it and answer
> questions along the way.
>
>
> Thanks!
>
>
> Douwe
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List*
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://forums.matronics.com*
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>
> **
>
> * *
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"A Foolish Consistency is the Hobgoblin of Little Minds"
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: UPDATE and return to life! |
| From: | "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
Mark: you failed to say in which state or city your new barn/shop is located.
Whereabouts are you?
--------
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
Air Camper NX41CC
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330190#330190
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au> |
| Subject: | Re: need help with wiring |
Mark,
That was from my web site. Electricals show the Corvair coils etc.
Cheers
Peter
Wonthaggi Australia
http://www.cpc-world.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of K5YAC
Sent: Wednesday, 9 February 2011 2:48 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: need help with wiring
Douwe:
I forget who originally offered this... it is not my work, but you might
find if helpful.
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330156#330156
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/piet_wiring_211.pdf
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: steel fuselage and engine weight |
| From: | "MPB" <mike(at)seatec.us> |
Well I guess I missed the conflicting dates... kinda obvious now that you point
it out. The plans of the steel fuselage are titled "1937 AirCamper with 1960
Corvair Engine". Now that I look at it again it appears that the wing is swept
back, I assume to correct for the CG shift with the lighter engine. Are there
really any draw backs to shifting the wing back? Does it make more sense
to build the extended wood fuselage instead? Are people still having to shift
the wing with the extended wood fuselage?
Thanks,
Mike
Prunedale, CA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330199#330199
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: steel fuselage and engine weight |
| From: | Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com> |
The Corvair as Bernard converted it was probably pretty close to the weight
of the Model A. If I recall correctly, the Model A is listed at roughly 245
lbs. A modern WW Corvair conversion is supposed to weigh in around 220-225,
but that is having jettisoned a number of stock Corvair parts from the
automotive application, so 245 for the Pietenpol conversion is probably
about right.
The extended fuselage gives you a little more room in the rear
cockpit....depending on the person it can feel a little less cramped. It
does not address CG issues.
The only drawbacks to shifting the wing back are aesthetics (personal
preference, really), and potentially more difficulty getting in the rear
cockpit, which can be addressed with cutouts, flops, etc.
Just don't tell Gene.... ;)
Ryan
On Tue, Feb 8, 2011 at 2:08 PM, MPB wrote:
>
> Well I guess I missed the conflicting dates... kinda obvious now that you
> point it out. The plans of the steel fuselage are titled "1937 AirCamper
> with 1960 Corvair Engine". Now that I look at it again it appears that the
> wing is swept back, I assume to correct for the CG shift with the lighter
> engine. Are there really any draw backs to shifting the wing back? Does it
> make more sense to build the extended wood fuselage instead? Are people
> still having to shift the wing with the extended wood fuselage?
> Thanks,
> Mike
> Prunedale, CA
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330199#330199
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: steel fuselage and engine weight |
| From: | "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca> |
Mike,
I think I see where you're getting confused. The plan set issued by the Pietenpol
family has one sheet that is actually two separate drawings, combined on one
sheet. Actually it's one drawing, plus some weight and balance data. The bottom
of the drawing sheet is the steel tube fuselage drawing, which is just a duplication
of the same drawing that was included in the 1932 Flying and Glider
Manual. The top part of the sheet is weight and balance data provided as an example
- with the data obtained from one of BHP's actual planes in 1966 - in this
case, Corvair powered. The data doesn't necessarily have anything to do with
the steel tube fuselage. The top half of the drawing sheet has no connection
to the bottom half.
The only advantage of the long fuselage has to do with the height of the pilot
and/or passenger. There is more leg room with the long fuselage, but, as Ryan
said, it does nothing to address W&B issues. Whatever you build, keep the tail
light.
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330208#330208
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Contintental Motor Mount question |
| From: | "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca> |
I was going over the plans last night, thinking about the tubing I need to order
for some of the metal work that I have ahead of me, and I noticed a detail in
the plans for the Continental Motor Mount that isn't quite clear to me.
The part in question is the "spool" for attachment of the engine to the mount.
The drawing calls for 0.625 O.D. x .049 tube, to be reamed for a 7/16" bolt. Well,
0.625 x .049 tube has an inner diameter of 0.527", and 7/16" is .438", so
that tube can't be reamed that size, since it's already bigger than that.
Looking a little more closely at the drawing, it's actually drawn with a smaller
tube inside the .625" tube. What's the deelio? Is the inner tube supposed to
be loose, or is it welded to the outer tube? If it's welded, why not just used
a thicker wall tube (.625" x .095")? If it is not welded, why not?
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330209#330209
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/spool_detail_115.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> |
| Subject: | Re: need help with wiring |
I installed Foxit and I also have a program called php tablet. Internet
Explorer still kicks it off and wants me to send an error report. I'll
wait until later -- maybe explorer is just goofed up right now.
----- Original Message -----
From: Ryan Mueller
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 12:38 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: need help with wiring
The link works fine. Do you have a PDF reader installed on your
computer? If not, I would recommend Foxit.....far less annoying than
Adobe Reader:
http://www.foxitsoftware.com/pdf/reader/addons.php
Install like you did with OpenOffice.....
Ryan
On Tue, Feb 8, 2011 at 11:26 AM, Charles Campbell
wrote:
Mark, I've been trying to get the post that you sent at 10:48 this
morning. The link doesn't work. It keeps kicking off and I get a
message to send an error report. Will you check it and see if it's the
link or my computer? Tnx
----- Original Message ----- From: "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net>
To:
Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 10:48 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: need help with wiring
Douwe:
I forget who originally offered this... it is not my work, but you
might find if helpful.
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on
Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330156#330156
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/piet_wiring_211.pdf
==========
st"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
==========
http://forums.matronics.com
==========
le, List Admin.
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
==========
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> |
| Subject: | Re: down to the fuselage |
We need to have one big humongous party for all Februaryites. Do not
archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "gtche98" <gtche98(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 12:50 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: down to the fuselage
>
> Feb 13 for me!
>
> --------
> Gary Wilson
> Greenville Wisconsin
> gtche98 (at) gmail ((dot)) com
> Planning Phase
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330177#330177
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ben Charvet <bencharvet(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Contintental Motor Mount question |
The "spool" gets a washer welded on either side that I reamed to fit the
bolt.
Ben Charvet
On 2/8/2011 6:07 PM, Bill Church wrote:
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Bill Church"
>
> I was going over the plans last night, thinking about the tubing I need to order
for some of the metal work that I have ahead of me, and I noticed a detail
in the plans for the Continental Motor Mount that isn't quite clear to me.
> The part in question is the "spool" for attachment of the engine to the mount.
The drawing calls for 0.625 O.D. x .049 tube, to be reamed for a 7/16" bolt.
Well, 0.625 x .049 tube has an inner diameter of 0.527", and 7/16" is .438",
so that tube can't be reamed that size, since it's already bigger than that.
> Looking a little more closely at the drawing, it's actually drawn with a smaller
tube inside the .625" tube. What's the deelio? Is the inner tube supposed
to be loose, or is it welded to the outer tube? If it's welded, why not just used
a thicker wall tube (.625" x .095")? If it is not welded, why not?
>
> Bill C.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330209#330209
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/spool_detail_115.jpg
>
>
--
Ben Charvet, PharmD
Staff Pharmacist
Parrish Medical center
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Contintental Motor Mount question |
| From: | "pineymb" <airltd(at)mts.net> |
That is exactly what I did Bill, ordered a 12" piece of the .625 x .095 4130 tubing
reamed to fit 7/16 bolt.
Might even have some extra lazer cut washers kickin" around if you want them.
--------
Adrian M
Winnipeg, MB
Canada
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330215#330215
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Contintental Motor Mount question |
Bill, I actually just bought some 4130 stock and had a machinist at work
turn down the spools for me, then welded them to the mount.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Raleigh, NC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Church
Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 6:07 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Contintental Motor Mount question
I was going over the plans last night, thinking about the tubing I need to
order for some of the metal work that I have ahead of me, and I noticed a
detail in the plans for the Continental Motor Mount that isn't quite clear
to me.
The part in question is the "spool" for attachment of the engine to the
mount. The drawing calls for 0.625 O.D. x .049 tube, to be reamed for a
7/16" bolt. Well, 0.625 x .049 tube has an inner diameter of 0.527", and
7/16" is .438", so that tube can't be reamed that size, since it's already
bigger than that.
Looking a little more closely at the drawing, it's actually drawn with a
smaller tube inside the .625" tube. What's the deelio? Is the inner tube
supposed to be loose, or is it welded to the outer tube? If it's welded, why
not just used a thicker wall tube (.625" x .095")? If it is not welded, why
not?
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330209#330209
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/spool_detail_115.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Contintental Motor Mount question |
| From: | "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca> |
Okay, gents, thanks for confirming that I wasn't just imagining things. So why
do you suppose the part was drawn that way (tube inside a tube)?
Ben, the plans don't show a washer welded on the back side. Did you use the same
size washer in the back? Seems like there might not be enough space there, with
the tubes converging from behind.
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330222#330222
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: need help with wiring |
| From: | Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com> |
PHP is a web programming "language"......I don't think there is actually a
program called PHP Tablet. It's a normal PDF file, so if you have a viewer
installed it should work. It's possible that there might be an association
mixup in Windows, which IE would feed off of. Offer still stands, if you
want me to hop on and take look let me know and we can arrange it. It's a
one time connection, and I would not be able to access your computer ever
again (unless you accepted another Gotomeeting from me). Not a bad thing to
resolve anyhow, as you'll probably run across more PDFs as a matter of
course.
Ryan
On Tue, Feb 8, 2011 at 5:18 PM, Charles Campbell
wrote:
> I installed Foxit and I also have a program called php tablet. Internet
> Explorer still kicks it off and wants me to send an error report. I'll wait
> until later -- maybe explorer is just goofed up right now.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Ryan Mueller
> *To:* pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 08, 2011 12:38 PM
> *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: need help with wiring
>
> The link works fine. Do you have a PDF reader installed on your computer?
> If not, I would recommend Foxit.....far less annoying than Adobe Reader:
>
> http://www.foxitsoftware.com/pdf/reader/addons.php
>
> <http://www.foxitsoftware.com/pdf/reader/addons.php>Install like you did
> with OpenOffice.....
>
> Ryan
>
> On Tue, Feb 8, 2011 at 11:26 AM, Charles Campbell <
> cncampbell(at)windstream.net> wrote:
>
>> cncampbell(at)windstream.net>
>>
>> Mark, I've been trying to get the post that you sent at 10:48 this
>> morning. The link doesn't work. It keeps kicking off and I get a message to
>> send an error report. Will you check it and see if it's the link or my
>> computer? Tnx
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net>
>> To:
>> Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 10:48 AM
>> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: need help with wiring
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Douwe:
>>>
>>> I forget who originally offered this... it is not my work, but you might
>>> find if helpful.
>>>
>>> --------
>>> Mark Chouinard
>>> Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>
>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330156#330156
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Attachments:
>>>
>>> http://forums.matronics.com//files/piet_wiring_211.pdf
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> ==========
>> st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>> ==========
>> http://forums.matronics.com
>> ==========
>> le, List Admin.
>> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> ==========
>>
>>
>>
>>
> *
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c*
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ben Charvet <bencharvet(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Contintental Motor Mount question |
You are right, there is no washer on the back of mine. I think I must
have used a tube thick enough that the bolts fit tight. Sorry for the
bad info, but I wasn't looking at the mount when I responded, and its
been 3 or 4 years since I made it.
Ben
On 2/8/2011 7:52 PM, Bill Church wrote:
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Bill Church"
>
> Okay, gents, thanks for confirming that I wasn't just imagining things. So why
do you suppose the part was drawn that way (tube inside a tube)?
>
> Ben, the plans don't show a washer welded on the back side. Did you use the same
size washer in the back? Seems like there might not be enough space there,
with the tubes converging from behind.
>
> Bill C.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330222#330222
>
>
--
Ben Charvet, PharmD
Staff Pharmacist
Parrish Medical center
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Clif Dawson" <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Room For Bungee Cord |
Sure, here's a couple. First is with the outer hub extension
I made. The second details the bronze bearing on the
inner end. the third is with a matboard cover pattern.
More here; http://www.clifdawson.ca/Homepage4-10-06/Pietenpol10.html
Clif
Clif, I see that you used cast wheels, care to share a picture of them?
Michael Perez
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dick N" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
| Subject: | room for bunge cord |
Hi Cliff
I looked at your pics and noticed that you dont have any guards against
the bolts. You might want to get a piece of leather or PVC to wrap
around the bottoms to protect the bungee from wearing out.
Dick N.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Clif Dawson" <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: room for bunge cord |
Yeah, I've got to do something there. I just haven't
figured out what yet. This is a big part of that 90%
done and 90% to go thing, isn't it! Of course I
didn't notice anything awry until I'd finished. Right!! :-)
Clif
Hi Cliff
I looked at your pics and noticed that you dont have any guards
against the bolts. You might want to get a piece of leather or PVC to
wrap around the bottoms to protect the bungee from wearing out.
Dick N.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kringle" <Mrkringles(at)msn.com> |
Finished my ribs early this morning. Not a big deal but I had to tell somebody!
I actually enjoyed making every rib and reminding myself to "build to build,
not to fly". I believe my rib jig is now retired. On to the brackets for
the center section.
--------
John
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330256#330256
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/progress_004_2_191.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/progress_008_2_102.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/progress_007_2_141.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
Good on you, John! Save your rib jig - if you ever need to make a
replacement rib you'll be glad you did, and otherwise it makes a nice
reminder of times when the project was simple and straightforward.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Raleigh, NC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kringle
Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 8:00 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: A milestone
Finished my ribs early this morning. Not a big deal but I had to tell
somebody! I actually enjoyed making every rib and reminding myself to
"build to build, not to fly". I believe my rib jig is now retired. On to
the brackets for the center section.
--------
John
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330256#330256
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/progress_004_2_191.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/progress_008_2_102.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/progress_007_2_141.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Room For Bungee Cord |
Thank you sir. Very interesting...I have already have in hand my new wire wheels...but
my second choice would be to use covers such as yours. Never thought about
some cast wheels and covers...very cool. (Nice little modification.)
Michael Perez
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
Good job! Your jig for trimming the leading edges is pretty close to what I was
considering.
Ken
On Feb 9, 2011, at 4:59 AM, Kringle wrote:
>
> Finished my ribs early this morning. Not a big deal but I had to tell somebody!
I actually enjoyed making every rib and reminding myself to "build to build,
not to fly". I believe my rib jig is now retired. On to the brackets for
the center section.
>
> --------
> John
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330256#330256
>
>
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/progress_004_2_191.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/progress_008_2_102.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/progress_007_2_141.jpg
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kringle" <Mrkringles(at)msn.com> |
The jig worked fine but when cutting the first couple of ribs I didn't have the
small backing block behind the top capstick and had some blowout. I know it
will be covered with plywood eventually but just wasn't acceptable.
John
--------
John
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330271#330271
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Room For Bungee Cord |
| From: | "DOMIT" <rx7_ragtop(at)yahoo.com> |
Out of curiousity, what do they weigh? And what did then come from? (what kind
of bike?)
--------
Brad "DOMIT" Smith
First rule of ground school: This is the ground... don't hit it going fast.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330280#330280
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Room For Bungee Cord |
| From: | Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
Great idea, why mess with spokes if you are going to add wheel covers
anyhow?
On Tue, Feb 8, 2011 at 9:11 PM, Clif Dawson wrote:
> Sure, here's a couple. First is with the outer hub extension
> I made. The second details the bronze bearing on the
> inner end. the third is with a matboard cover pattern.
> More here; http://www.clifdawson.ca/Homepage4-10-06/Pietenpol10.html
> Clif
>
> Clif, I see that you used cast wheels, care to share a picture of them?
> Michael Perez
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"A Foolish Consistency is the Hobgoblin of Little Minds"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "bender" <jfaith(at)solairusaviation.com> |
I know this stuff comes up.... but
is anyone using tie rods..solid threaded rods for drag and anti-drag wires?
i just did an annual on a scout and it seems simple and no turnbuckles
the pitts special uses tie rods with hardwood blocks glued to the backside of the
spars and drilled through double nuts and done
wag aero has 50 and 56 inch 10-32 rods on sale for $15.. the 56 looks like it would
make 3 bays instead of two
just thinking.... about to start assembling the wing
BTW i saw the barrels on sale but any other good deals on turnbuckles out there
??
jeff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330306#330306
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: leading edge plywood |
| From: | "Mild Bill" <whfrank(at)charter.net> |
Eh. Why bother with plywood on the leading edge at all?
The Brown B-2 "Miss Los Angeles" flew at over 230 mph with the only reinforcement
to the fabric covering being some false ribs supporting an extra layer of fabric
from the leading edge to the spar.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sdasmarchives/4590351468/in/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sdasmarchives/4590350390/in/photostream/
The second photo shows just barely enough of the wing to reveal the fabric going
all the way to the leading edge. I didn't find any better photos in a quick
search, but the fabric-only covering is confirmed by an entry in the April, 1935
issue of Aero Digest:
http://www.wingsofpeace.net/gallery/B/BrownB2MissLosAngeles/BrownB-2.html
So - easier, quicker, and cheaper than fussing with plywood or aluminum leading
edges, and lighter to boot. What say y'all?
--------
Bill Frank
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330313#330313
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dangerous Dave" <dsornbor(at)aol.com> |
You could probably do it but you'd have to investigate what the angles would be
and if the rods would make it through the webs on the ribs.The ribs are not spaced
all the same,could be a bugger.dave
--------
Covering Piet
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330328#330328
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: From Everett WA.... |
| From: | "BYD" <billsayre(at)ymail.com> |
Jake - be sure to research "Markle" in the archives before he visits!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330332#330332
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: From Everett WA.... |
Oh great....and I already had a "radial sized" box ready for my return trip! :-)
-----Original Message-----
>From: BYD <billsayre(at)ymail.com>
>Sent: Feb 9, 2011 1:38 PM
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: From Everett WA....
>
>
>Jake - be sure to research "Markle" in the archives before he visits!
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330332#330332
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> |
Check B & B Aircraft Supplies. PO Box 37, Gardner, Kansas 66030, Phone (913)
884-5930. I bought all my turnbuckles for $7.50 each.-----
Original Message -----
From: "bender" <jfaith(at)solairusaviation.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 1:24 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: drag wires
>
>
> I know this stuff comes up.... but
> is anyone using tie rods..solid threaded rods for drag and anti-drag
> wires?
> i just did an annual on a scout and it seems simple and no turnbuckles
>
> the pitts special uses tie rods with hardwood blocks glued to the backside
> of the spars and drilled through double nuts and done
>
> wag aero has 50 and 56 inch 10-32 rods on sale for $15.. the 56 looks like
> it would make 3 bays instead of two
>
> just thinking.... about to start assembling the wing
>
> BTW i saw the barrels on sale but any other good deals on turnbuckles out
> there ??
>
> jeff
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330306#330306
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Tail Section Hinges |
| From: | "tdudley(at)umn.edu" <tdudley(at)umn.edu> |
Worried about the tail hinges (and metal work in general), I looked for and found
a privately-owned welding shop about ten miles from my home. I showed one
of the employees the plan for the tail section hinges. He brought me into the
shop and made a hinge from scratch in under 30 minutes while I watched (the final
product would be a bit more fine-tuned). He told me that he'd be able to
build them for me if I wanted, but better yet, he told me he'd help me make all
the pieces myself. I'd pay him by the hour to help, but that included all
the tools for cutting, bending, drilling, and TIG welding the pieces. His estimate
was really reasonable.
You've just got to love small shops in rural Minnesota.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330338#330338
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/trial_hinge_120.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/trial_hinge_2_868.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: From Everett WA.... |
| From: | gboothe5(at)comcast.net |
Gotta worry when JM shows up for a "friendly" visit pushing a hand cart...
Gary
------Original Message------
From: Jim Markle
Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
ReplyTo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: From Everett WA....
Sent: Feb 9, 2011 2:15 PM
Oh great....and I already had a "radial sized" box ready for my return trip! :-)
-----Original Message-----
>From: BYD <billsayre(at)ymail.com>
>Sent: Feb 9, 2011 1:38 PM
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: From Everett WA....
>
>
>Jake - be sure to research "Markle" in the archives before he visits!
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330332#330332
>
>
Sent on the Sprint Now Network from my BlackBerry
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Tail Section Hinges |
| From: | "tdudley(at)umn.edu" <tdudley(at)umn.edu> |
$60 is all Vi Kapler charges for the tail section hinges? What about the other
metal parts? Contact #'s?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330344#330344
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Tail Section Hinges |
| From: | "echobravo4" <eab4(at)comcast.net> |
Here is is info-
Vitalis Kapler
507-288-3322
1033 Forest Hills Dr. SW
Rochester, MN 55902
I ordered mine a couple of months ago and they were $70
--------
Earl Brown
I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I
intended to be.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330346#330346
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gboothe5" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Tail Section Hinges |
T
Just curious...is there a reason why you cannot do the fittings, or do not
want to? All it takes is band saw with a metal cutting blade and a gas
welding set up (well, and a few other items). I know welding sounds
daunting, but, believe me, it's one of the most rewarding parts of the whole
project!
Gary Boothe
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
tdudley(at)umn.edu
Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 3:14 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Tail Section Hinges
$60 is all Vi Kapler charges for the tail section hinges? What about the
other metal parts? Contact #'s?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330344#330344
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: UPDATE and return to life! |
| From: | Mark Roberts <mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com> |
Hi Oscar!
I'm in the central part of California (unfortunately... The only thing
that would make this relo better is if it was somewhere east of the CA
boarder....)
We are in Fresno, CA and this place is out of the main city atrea and
out a little bit into the country.
I first discovered YOU on the web in my initial searchg for planes to
build as I stumbled across the Squirrel website. When I saw you
posting here I realized you had made the jump to the Piet :o)
Mark
On Tue, Feb 8, 2011 at 10:46 AM, taildrags wrote:
>
> Mark: you failed to say in which state or city your new barn/shop is located.
Whereabouts are you?
>
> --------
> Oscar Zuniga
> San Antonio, TX
> Air Camper NX41CC
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330190#330190
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Tail Section Hinges |
| From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
Yep, got mine from Vi at Brodhead for $70. They are nice. I agree that they would
be easy to make, but his are ready to mount... all I had to do was router
the recess and drill mounting holes.
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330349#330349
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Plans for a good fuse workbench |
| From: | Mark Roberts <mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com> |
Hi All:
I am not remembering off hand where I saw a design for a solid free
standing workbench for the fuse, and eventually for the wing and
stab/fin. I have a wall mounted, solid core door workbench made of 2
solid core doors, butted together and attached to the wall. I want to
use these as the top of the bench, and build a solid base to mount
these 36" x 96" doors to. I am thinking I saw some plans somewhere
that drew out a bench that would be free standing and solid like this,
and I can't find it in my stuff. Anyone have a link or a scan of this
kind of thing? I figure I can design my own, but I'd rather not as I'd
rather be thinking of building the fuse :o)
Thanks for any advice!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Tail Section Hinges |
| From: | "tdudley(at)umn.edu" <tdudley(at)umn.edu> |
Gary,
I do want to make the metal fittings; I want to do everything I can on this project.
After meeting with the guy this morning, I got the impression I'd be able
to build the parts myself with his assistance. That's the part that got me
excited.
I'd guess that with a little early mentorship in the welding department, I'd gain
the skills needed to get most of the other parts done. I believe you when
you say learning the skill is very rewarding.
Tom
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330351#330351
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Tail Section Hinges |
| From: | "tdudley(at)umn.edu" <tdudley(at)umn.edu> |
Mark,
Maybe in direct contrast to my last post, what was the turn around time to get
the hinges? Does Vi supply all metal parts?
Tom
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330353#330353
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott Knowlton " <flyingscott_k(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Plans for a good fuse workbench |
Check the EAA plans for work benches. I built two five footers and another 4 footer.
They are great sturdy all purpose benches with easy to follow plans.
Scott Knowlton
-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Roberts <mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 00:23:30
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Plans for a good fuse workbench
Hi All:
I am not remembering off hand where I saw a design for a solid free
standing workbench for the fuse, and eventually for the wing and
stab/fin. I have a wall mounted, solid core door workbench made of 2
solid core doors, butted together and attached to the wall. I want to
use these as the top of the bench, and build a solid base to mount
these 36" x 96" doors to. I am thinking I saw some plans somewhere
that drew out a bench that would be free standing and solid like this,
and I can't find it in my stuff. Anyone have a link or a scan of this
kind of thing? I figure I can design my own, but I'd rather not as I'd
rather be thinking of building the fuse :o)
Thanks for any advice!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Plans for a good fuse workbench |
| From: | "tdudley(at)umn.edu" <tdudley(at)umn.edu> |
Mark,
There is a good description of building a solid workbench in the January, 2010
issue of EAA SportAviation. You can download a copy from the archives. I used
it to build my tables. (I'd link it, but I'm not computer saavy enough.)
Tom
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330355#330355
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Tail Section Hinges |
| From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
In my experience, turn around was quick... as quick I could count out three 20s
and a 10, we shook hands and I told him Thanks! He had the hinges for sale at
Brodhead.
Give him a call.... maybe he has a set or two ready to ship.
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330356#330356
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Tail Section Hinges |
| From: | "tdudley(at)umn.edu" <tdudley(at)umn.edu> |
Mark,
I should have realized that before I posted--I did read you got it from him at
Brodhead.
Tom
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330357#330357
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Tail Section Hinges |
| From: | gboothe5(at)comcast.net |
Oh...and I purchased the VK hinges, despite what I just said! Happy building!
Gary
------Original Message------
From: tdudley(at)umn.edu
Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
ReplyTo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Tail Section Hinges
Sent: Feb 9, 2011 4:28 PM
Gary,
I do want to make the metal fittings; I want to do everything I can on this project.
After meeting with the guy this morning, I got the impression I'd be able
to build the parts myself with his assistance. That's the part that got me
excited.
I'd guess that with a little early mentorship in the welding department, I'd gain
the skills needed to get most of the other parts done. I believe you when
you say learning the skill is very rewarding.
Tom
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330351#330351
Sent on the Sprint Now Network from my BlackBerry
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Plans for a good fuse workbench |
| From: | Wayne Bressler <wayne(at)taildraggersinc.com> |
Mark,
Here's a link: http://www.oshkosh365.org/ok365_DiscussionBoardTopic.aspx?id=1235&boardid=147&forumid=175&topicid=3592
Plans are about half way down the page.
Wayne Bressler
Taildraggers, Inc.
www.taildraggersinc.com
On Feb 9, 2011, at 7:23 PM, Mark Roberts wrote:
>
> Hi All:
>
> I am not remembering off hand where I saw a design for a solid free
> standing workbench for the fuse, and eventually for the wing and
> stab/fin. I have a wall mounted, solid core door workbench made of 2
> solid core doors, butted together and attached to the wall. I want to
> use these as the top of the bench, and build a solid base to mount
> these 36" x 96" doors to. I am thinking I saw some plans somewhere
> that drew out a bench that would be free standing and solid like this,
> and I can't find it in my stuff. Anyone have a link or a scan of this
> kind of thing? I figure I can design my own, but I'd rather not as I'd
> rather be thinking of building the fuse :o)
>
> Thanks for any advice!
>
> Mark
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Tail Section Hinges |
| From: | "tdudley(at)umn.edu" <tdudley(at)umn.edu> |
So Gary, you're saying it wouldn't be too much a compromise to buy the hinges?
Glad to hear it. I just got off the phone with Mr. Kapler. He said he could
send them to me this week. (I'll build the other metal parts!)
Kind of interesting--Vi said he bought one of his Piets from Ed Sampson in Bellview,
MN. I spoke with Ed on the phone a few weeks ago and he said I could drive
down to visit with him and talk building. Ed apparently built the Piet fuse
at the EAA museum. Lots of Piet knowledge within easy driving distance.
Tom
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330361#330361
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Tail Section Hinges |
| From: | gboothe5(at)comcast.net |
You're in good hands! See you at Brodhead?
Gary
------Original Message------
From: tdudley(at)umn.edu
Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
ReplyTo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Tail Section Hinges
Sent: Feb 9, 2011 5:08 PM
So Gary, you're saying it wouldn't be too much a compromise to buy the hinges?
Glad to hear it. I just got off the phone with Mr. Kapler. He said he could
send them to me this week. (I'll build the other metal parts!)
Kind of interesting--Vi said he bought one of his Piets from Ed Sampson in Bellview,
MN. I spoke with Ed on the phone a few weeks ago and he said I could drive
down to visit with him and talk building. Ed apparently built the Piet fuse
at the EAA museum. Lots of Piet knowledge within easy driving distance.
Tom
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330361#330361
Sent on the Sprint Now Network from my BlackBerry
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Plans for a good fuse workbench |
| From: | "Piet2112" <curtdm(at)gmail.com> |
Here's the workbench I designed. It's 3-3'X5' tables bolted together. Long enough
a long fuse. You only need 2-4x8' sheets of plywood and 10-8'-2x4's.
Curt Merdan
Flower Mound, TX
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330368#330368
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/15_work_table_133.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack" <jack(at)textors.com> |
A couple of questions on the pedals. The plans call for them to be
mounted
2 =BD inches from the firewall. Is that enough distance? I=92m
planning to
place a washer between the pedal and the bracket. Should it be metal,
fiber, plastic, etc?
Thanks,
Jack
DSM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack" <jack(at)textors.com> |
I've purchased metal parts and very much enjoyed fabricating others. Ken
Perkins has many very well done parts for sale. His contact info:
Piet parts, welded and Model A parts.
Kenandvernaperkins(at)sbcglobal.net
913-764-6949
Jack
DSM
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rudder Pedals |
| From: | gboothe5(at)comcast.net |
Jack,
That location is fine. You can locate the top of the pedals anywhere you want.
Gary Boothe
Sent on the Sprint Now Network from my BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: "Jack" <jack(at)textors.com>
Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2011 19:49:27
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Tail Section Hinges |
| From: | Kenneth Bickers <bickers.ken(at)gmail.com> |
Another reason for buying the Vi Kapler hinges, even if you could make
them yourself, is that it is a tangible way to have a connection back to Mr
.
Pietenpol himself.
I like the sentimentality of the hinges. Each time I ease the elevator bac
k
to climb out or squeeze the rudder to initiate a turn, I'll be paying homag
e
to the small group of people who turned prairie genius into everyman=92s
flying machines.
Cheers, Ken
On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 6:22 PM, wrote:
>
> You're in good hands! See you at Brodhead?
>
> Gary
> ------Original Message------
> From: tdudley(at)umn.edu
> Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> ReplyTo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Tail Section Hinges
> Sent: Feb 9, 2011 5:08 PM
>
>
> So Gary, you're saying it wouldn't be too much a compromise to buy the
> hinges? Glad to hear it. I just got off the phone with Mr. Kapler.
He
> said he could send them to me this week. (I'll build the other metal
> parts!)
>
> Kind of interesting--Vi said he bought one of his Piets from Ed Sampson i
n
> Bellview, MN. I spoke with Ed on the phone a few weeks ago and he said I
> could drive down to visit with him and talk building. Ed apparently buil
t
> the Piet fuse at the EAA museum. Lots of Piet knowledge within easy driv
ing
> distance.
>
> Tom
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330361#330361
>
>
> Sent on the Sprint=AE Now Network from my BlackBerry=AE
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Plans for a good fuse workbench |
| From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
I don't have any written plans for my workbenches, I just built them to a comfortable
height (in my case about 42") and matched the dimentions to 4' x 8' x 5/8"
cabinet grade birch plywood. I used standard grade 1/2" plywood for the lower
shelf. I also bored 1" holes in the bottom of the legs to accept some 1"
aluminum round stock that I drilled and tapped to accept 3/8" x 16 bolts. I
tacked some heavy flat washers to the heads of 2" long 3/8" x 16 bolts and used
them as leveling feet, which worked out good, especially when I wanted to level
up for my fuselage work. Once I started applying spar varnish to my wing
ribs, I went ahead and applied a couple of coats to my workbench tops. I highly
recommend doing that... it looks nicer and is more durable.
These were the first things I built for the Pietenpol adventure.
They can be used separately, which is how I will normally keep them... (wow, that
seems like a long time ago).
Or they can be lined up end to end (16' long) and leveled up for a fuselage jig.
I guess it depends on what you have room for.
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330376#330376
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris" <catdesigns(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Plans for a good fuse workbench |
I built my bench out of doors and 2x4s. Nothing fancy but worked great. You
will be a bit short in length but planed correctly and it works fine.
http://westcoastpiet.com/images/Chris%20Tracy/pictures.htm
Chris
Sacramento, Ca
Westcoastpiet.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Roberts
Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 4:24 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Plans for a good fuse workbench
-->
Hi All:
I am not remembering off hand where I saw a design for a solid free standing
workbench for the fuse, and eventually for the wing and stab/fin. I have a
wall mounted, solid core door workbench made of 2 solid core doors, butted
together and attached to the wall. I want to use these as the top of the
bench, and build a solid base to mount these 36" x 96" doors to. I am
thinking I saw some plans somewhere that drew out a bench that would be free
standing and solid like this, and I can't find it in my stuff. Anyone have a
link or a scan of this kind of thing? I figure I can design my own, but I'd
rather not as I'd rather be thinking of building the fuse :o)
Thanks for any advice!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | cool weather flying |
| From: | "Dangerous Dave" <dsornbor(at)aol.com> |
Winter at its best
--------
Covering Piet
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330381#330381
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/chilly_208.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Clif Dawson" <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: From Everett WA.... |
Ah, but Jimmy, just think of all the shotgun shells you'd hafta buy!
AND you'd be peening the gears with every shot! Hahahahaha
>
>
> Oh great....and I already had a "radial sized" box ready for my return
> trip! :-)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Clif Dawson" <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: leading edge plywood |
It has nothing to do with reinforcement of the fabric.
This is a fast,powerful machine that doesn't have any
issues with getting off the ground. The wing could
be a piece of flat plywood and it would still fly. The
Piet, on the other hand, needs lift, all it can get.
February 02, 2011 - February 10, 2011
Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-kc