Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-kn
June 17, 2011 - - - - , 20-
then adding gussets to each side. This would indicate that the sticks are
custom miter fitted on each end, then glued. This is NOT required on any gussetted
aircraft rib. (emphasis mine) The size of the gusset is engineered to
have adequate shear glue strength to transfer the loads and more. I recommend
that the sticks be cut as long as you can to fit the location with 90 deg cuts
on the ends such that one corner of the end of the stick contacts the adjacent
one. Factory Pitts, Stearman and Staggerwing ribs have no inter-stick contact
in places relying on the gussets only. Just like the roof over your head.
This can save bunch of build time. Ribs built in this manner are still stronger
than the required loads." (emphasis mine)
I have three questions-
1. Really? Are 90 cuts on the ends of the braces sufficient over mitered ends?
If that were true, it sure would save me time, but I also know that the Internet
is full of really bad ideas parading as "expert advice". FWIW, I have built
and glued my first rib with the vertical braces mitered to probably within 1/16th.
Am I in overkill, or doing what is the right way to construct?
2. I am thinking about building my wing ribs using Semi-Circle and Quarter-Circle
gussets (I just like the look, although, once built and covered, I won't see
them again). Since they are not the original plans type of gusset, what size
circle did some of you use for your gussets?
3. I heard the instructor in an EAA workshop I attended ask the question, "Are
you building a Timex, or a Rolex?" The point I felt he was making is that you
can build and spend thousands of extra hours fitting tolerences that don't really
make your aircraft any stronger, or you can build it using good practices
and it will be just fine. That is not the same as "The Fisherman" school of aircraft
construction, but yet it is a far cry from building a fine Swiss watch
either. I guess that I am asking for words of advice in this regard as I begin
building. Comments are appreciated.
Thanks to everyone in advance for their advice. I count today in my Builder's Log
as the day I began building my Pietenpol. Everything up until now has been
"research", and I don't think the FAA or anyone else gives two hoots about how
many hours of research I did. They are more interested in what I built, how I
built it, and (at least to me) how many hours I spent building.
--------
Semper Fi,
Terry
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=343267#343267
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Avon tires and Johnson Airspeed indicator |
I have Avon Speedmasters on mine and have been very pleased with them.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Douwe
Blumberg
Sent: Friday, June 17, 2011 8:13 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Avon tires and Johnson Airspeed indicator
I bought a very nicely made "kit" form Kerri Ann Price a while back. Here's
the last email I have keriannprice(at)hotmail.com
Those Avon tires will work fine. Also ck out Avon "Speedmaster"s, very
vintage as well. I've seen these tires on Piets, so know they work.
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Building my first wing rib - the journey begins |
| From: | "Kringle" <Mrkringles(at)msn.com> |
90 degree cuts are fine. I compromised and angled mine to give me a little more
suface area to glue.
--------
John
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=343270#343270
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Another Cable Question |
Jack, I ordered both ferrules swaging tool from ACS. The ferrules are
3/8-in long and the swager is 1/2-inch wide so the swage is done in just
one crimp. I think the 1 vs 2 vs 3 crimps have reference to the
crimping tool that has a much more narrow 'bite'. I think you are using
much longer ferrules (copper colored vs plated) and a more narrow
crimping tool.
----- Original Message -----
From: Jack
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, June 17, 2011 6:33 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Another Cable Question
Jim,
I don't remember that reference in the book. I used three for my tail
cables. I have seen some with one but wonder if the tool has a wider
surface. See pictures.
Jack
DSM
http://textors.com/DSCN4200_800x600.jpg
http://textors.com/DSCN4199_800x600.jpg
http://textors.com/DSCN4201_800x600.jpg
http://textors.com/DSCN4202_800x600.jpg
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim
Boyer
Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2011 11:01 AM
To: pietenpol-list
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Another Cable Question
Another cable question; in Bingelis books and in AC43 it says that
3/32 copper oval cable sleeves only need to be crimped once. I am using
3/32 cable for the tail brace cables and I know I have seen other Piets
with 3/32 tail brace cables but don't remember ever seeing just one
crimp on the copper sleeve.
Is that what those of you using 3/32 cable are doing just one crimp?
Tried doing three last night as a test and it can be done but doesn't
look well and just one crimp makes the ends swell up like you stepped in
the middle of a balloon.
Cheers,
Jim B.
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhttp://forums.matronics.
comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Another Cable Question |
#2. I meant to attach a pic to the first post so if I can get it to
come up here it is.
----- Original Message -----
From: Jack
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, June 17, 2011 6:33 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Another Cable Question
Jim,
I don't remember that reference in the book. I used three for my tail
cables. I have seen some with one but wonder if the tool has a wider
surface. See pictures.
Jack
DSM
http://textors.com/DSCN4200_800x600.jpg
http://textors.com/DSCN4199_800x600.jpg
http://textors.com/DSCN4201_800x600.jpg
http://textors.com/DSCN4202_800x600.jpg
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim
Boyer
Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2011 11:01 AM
To: pietenpol-list
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Another Cable Question
Another cable question; in Bingelis books and in AC43 it says that
3/32 copper oval cable sleeves only need to be crimped once. I am using
3/32 cable for the tail brace cables and I know I have seen other Piets
with 3/32 tail brace cables but don't remember ever seeing just one
crimp on the copper sleeve.
Is that what those of you using 3/32 cable are doing just one crimp?
Tried doing three last night as a test and it can be done but doesn't
look well and just one crimp makes the ends swell up like you stepped in
the middle of a balloon.
Cheers,
Jim B.
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhttp://forums.matronics.
comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Building my first wing rib - the journey begins |
| From: | "kevinpurtee" <kevin.purtee(at)us.army.mil> |
Congratulations on your first wing rib, Terry. Like John, I miter the intercoastals
but I've also read that the 90s are fine. As always, the engineers, A&Ps
and IAs can correct as they see fit - that's my standard disclaimer since I
routinely say dumb things.
I like the "timex vs. rolex" analogy. Unfortunately, it's hard to know what right
looks like when you're starting. That's why you develop your list of trusted
people on this site and seek their advice. You also have your local technical
counselors.
Lemme see: "timex vs. rolex," "pole-vaulting over mouse turds," and, "it ain't
the space shuttle." Not excuses to do sloppy work, but encouragement to do airworthy
work and make progress.
--------
Kevin "Axel" Purtee
NX899KP
Austin/Georgetown, TX
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=343275#343275
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Building my first wing rib - the journey begins |
| From: | "cjborsuk" <cjborsuk(at)yahoo.com> |
Take a look at the Help for Home Builders section of EAA.org. There are a number
of videos there building a wood wing. All of them cut angles. I believe you
will find most of the folks here also cut angles.
Another advantage to cutting the angles, is you can remove the rib from the jig
without first attaching one side of the gussets. This allowed me to always have
a rib in the jig and two others at the "gusset station". Cleaner and neater.
This also allows you smooth the joints out of the jig, which is much easier.
You can check out my blog at: http://pietenpol-989cb.blogspot.com
On the gussets themselves, I went with the rectangle. I ended up with 4 different
sizes, but the mass majority of them are 1.5" x 1.0". The other sizes were
1.25" x 1.0" - only two of these per side. The other two sizes were specific for
the nose and the tail. Trimmed on the router table. Video on the blog.
Good luck and enjoy the time. If time is real important to save, your going to
be in trouble.
Chuck
989CB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=343276#343276
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Building my first wing rib - the journey begins |
| From: | "kevinpurtee" <kevin.purtee(at)us.army.mil> |
Didn't really answer a couple of your questions - standard disclaimer still applies:
Do as good as you can on the woodwork. I try for 1/32" tolerances. For gusseted
joints I'll go to 1/16". This obviously does not apply if you cut 90 degree
angles on your rib intercoastals.
Ask Gene Rambo about the size of the round gussets on the ribs. TLAR tells me
that 1.25" radius would be ok.
--------
Kevin "Axel" Purtee
NX899KP
Austin/Georgetown, TX
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=343278#343278
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Building my first wing rib - the journey begins |
| From: | "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com> |
Thanks for everyone's input. Chuck, thanks for the advice about time. Flying is
my job, so staying proficient is not a factor. I look at this as a journey, as
I said. If the destination is the only goal, you will miss the joy of the journey.
I am in no rush.
I also saw the three step wing rib process on the westcoastpiet. com website. I
like the ability to remove the rib from the jig and apply the gussets without
staples or nails. So for that reason alone I think that I will stay with the
mitered braces. I think that I will also stick with the rectangle gussets- easier
to cut, and much less waste.
I will send pictures as I get a little further on the trip! Thanks again to all.
--------
Semper Fi,
Terry
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=343282#343282
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Building my first wing rib - the journey begins |
| From: | "Kringle" <Mrkringles(at)msn.com> |
Terry,
I questioned the rib joints myself but found comfort in a bridge I passed over
a few days later. I knew I was going that way again this morning so took some
pictures for you. Check out their gussets.
--------
John
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=343285#343285
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/bridge2_854.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/bridge1_170.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: [eaa1114-discuss] Letter from Capt. Ray Fowler,Chief |
Pilot f
| From: | "rvanengen" <rvanengen(at)gmail.com> |
Extremely well said...thanks for forwarding! A very sad loss of a piece of history,
but thankfully not infinitely compounded by loss of life or injury.
--------
--Randall
02xB || !02xB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=343286#343286
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Building my first wing rib - the journey begins |
| From: | "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com> |
Great picture, John. Definitely worth a thousand words. Or a couple of beverages
at Brodhead - my treat.
--------
Semper Fi,
Terry
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=343291#343291
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Building my first wing rib - the journey begins |
I used a 2" hole saw for my gussets. Then used an old school paper cutter t
o cut those gussets in 1/2 and 1/4 pieces.- I believe I have pictures on
my website.
Michael Perez
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Building my first wing rib - the journey begins |
| From: | "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca> |
Since it hasn't been mentioned yet, I'll do it now:
Refer to the Bingelis books. They will provide answers to all of your questions.
Attached is a Tony Bingelis sketch showing various joint conditions, all deemed
to be acceptable. If you don't own the set of Bingelis books, get one. If
you have a set, read them. Such a wealth of homebuilt aircraft information.
So, in response to your questions:
1. Yes, 90degree cuts on the ends of the braces are sufficient. They will be slightly
less strong than mitered (less bonding area), but not significantly. Personally,
I prefer mitered joints, but I enjoy woodworking, and take pride in
nice fitting joints, whether anyone else knows about them or not - but that's
just me. I'm not sure what you mean by your statement that your braces have been
"mitered to probably within 1/16th". Do you mean you have 1/16" gaps between
the sticks? Basically the sticks should butt against the top and bottom capstrips.I
would avoid gaps. A disc sander is an invaluable tool in building ribs
(and many other parts) . I use mine ALL the time. Probably less than $100. Get
the biggest size you can find. Mine is 8 inch diameter.
2. I used circular gussets - just liked the look better (but that's me). I made
mine 2" diameter, and cut them into halves and quarters with a thin blade (scroll
saw).
3. Build the way you want to build, and are capable of. Some homebuilt aircraft
have woodwork that looks like fine furniture, and some have woodwork that...
doesn't. Strength will rely on proper techniques, and making sure that glue joints
have proper contact (no gaps between wood pieces that are not filled with
the proper amount of glue). How your aircraft performs will depend largely on
the symmetry and squareness (wherever things are supposed to be square) of your
construction, not how pretty it looks. Always remember "Keep it light". Personally,
I think I'm aiming for a Seiko. A little nicer than a Timex, but much
more reasonably priced than a Rolex.
Lastly, I don't think that the FAA gives a hoot about how many hours you spent
building your plane (unless someone else did more hours on your plane than you
did). What they will care about is whether or not YOU built it.
One rib down, and a bunch more to go. Before you know it you'll have a whole wing's
worth of ribs (unless you get distracted, like another builder, whose name
rhymes with Gary Boothe).
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=343302#343302
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/bingelis_rib_joints_648.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Boyer <boyerjrb(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Another Cable Question |
Hi Jack,
thats what bothered me; it looked like some had one crimp but it was much wider.
It could have been just that the 3 crimps blended together.
Both AC43-13 and Bingelis books say just one for 3/32" and 3 for 1/8" sleeves.
Thanks for the pictures,
Jim B.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Building my first wing rib - the journey begins |
| From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
Not sure that it matters much, but I mitered (sanded) each diagonal and upright
to fit precisely and I honestly don't think it took me any longer to go this
route. I didn't custom fit each part to each assembly, rather I made a set of
"master" parts as I laid out the first rib and used each of these master parts
to make the remaining parts by marking the cut angles on long pieces of capstrip.
Most of us do this anyway (mark lengths) in order to cut our parts to the
correct length, even if we are cutting 90s. So, after I marked my parts I
went to the band saw and rip, rip, rip, rip, rip. Now I've got a stack of parts
with angles marked on each end, so I take them to my disk sander and sand,
sand, sand, sand, sand them to match the markings. It actually went really quick,
and each part was fabricated to the identical dimension as the original master
part. Once I had all these built, which only took me a few work sessions,
I had an entire assembly line set up. Making these parts in batches is a LOT
quicker than making them as you go (marking each piece, walking to the saw
each time, etc.).
I still have all these master parts. They fit perfectly in my jig in the event
that I need to make a repair, or build another Piet later on.
I know that all this isn't necessary, but I just wanted to share the way I did
mine. I would argue that their is some degree of added strength in the increased
contact area. I used the same process with my fuse halves... all the diagonals
and uprights were sanded to match. The fit is snug and leaves no voids.
I think this serves to not only provide more surface area, but also better alignment...
especially when doing a number of the same assemblies, such as ribs.
My $.02
Some of the diagonals cut and sorted.
Gussets ready to go.
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=343308#343308
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Building my first wing rib - the journey begins |
| From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
Wow! Bill nailed it. We must have been writing at the same time.
I'll agree... the disc sander is an excellent tool. I got mine (6" with 4" belt)
for $100. You can probably do much better than I did by scouring Craigslist.
One more thing I want to agree with... I too enjoy woodworking and take pride in
nicely fitting joints. Not to brag, but I had a 20+ year wood shop instructor
and airplane builder come into my hangar the other night (he has 6 airplanes).
I noticed him looking over my project while I talked to another guy. Later
on I asked him what he thought and he said, "you are doing excellent work".
Yep, I'm glad I've taken a little extra time (emphasis on little) to do my best
work. Is it THE best work? Probably not, but I'm trying.
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=343311#343311
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Building my first wing rib - the journey begins |
| From: | "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com> |
What I meant about time is that, you are right that the FAA doesn't care how many
hours I put into the airplane, as long as it is done right. I only meant a
tally of hours would be meaningful to me.
I appreciate all of the photos as it helps me as I go to get ideas.
I think that the Seiko comparison may be the best goal - not to low end, not too
high end, but built well and built to last.
I do have the Bingelis books, but, frankly, I do not remember that diagram of the
braces and gussets. Maybe it is a different edition. If you can tell me the
book and page, I will go back and search for it.
Back to work.
--------
Semper Fi,
Terry
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=343315#343315
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Building my first wing rib - the journey begins |
| From: | "tdudley(at)umn.edu" <tdudley(at)umn.edu> |
Terry,
I mitred my rib spacers and cut square/rectangular gussets. Do what Mark did and
cut multiple spacers and gussets. It's really nice to be able to make a rib
a day without having to stop and cut individual pieces.
Building the ribs was great--starting on the project and seeing progress each day.
Every part of it was exciting.
Tom
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=343320#343320
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/rib_945.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/rib_gusset_166.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ben Charvet <bencharvet(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Building my first wing rib - the journey begins |
I mitered my rib pieces. If you make them like an assembly line it
doesn't take all that long if you have a power sander. I ended up with
all the individual rib pieces numbered and rubber banded together on my
workbench, so putting together a rib didn't take all that long, maybe an
hour to glue and nail one side. In the long run it doesn't cost much
more to build a Rolex. Its your time, so its up to you. I don't regret
it myself.
Ben Charvet
Titusville, Fl
On 6/17/2011 8:17 AM, jarheadpilot82 wrote:
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "jarheadpilot82"
>
> I am starting my first wing rib, and came across the following website-
>
> http://www.2wings.com/m12/faq/wingfaq.htm#04/19/01%20RIB%20CONSTRUCTION,%20GUSSETS,%20GLUE,%20EPOXY,%20STAPLER,%20CLAMP,%20JOINT,%20CLAMPING%20SPAR%20CRUSH%20PLATE
>
> This website is, apparently, is a Builder's area for Pitts Model 12 aircraft.
In reading through I found interesting tidbits of information, but the following
thread really caught my attention. I have cut and pasted it here to make it
easier to read-
>
> "I re-read Cory's post, It does sound as though Cory is gluing the sticks together,
then adding gussets to each side. This would indicate that the sticks
are custom miter fitted on each end, then glued. This is NOT required on any gussetted
aircraft rib. (emphasis mine) The size of the gusset is engineered to
have adequate shear glue strength to transfer the loads and more. I recommend
that the sticks be cut as long as you can to fit the location with 90 deg cuts
on the ends such that one corner of the end of the stick contacts the adjacent
one. Factory Pitts, Stearman and Staggerwing ribs have no inter-stick contact
in places relying on the gussets only. Just like the roof over your head.
This can save bunch of build time. Ribs built in this manner are still stronger
than the required loads." (emphasis mine)
>
> I have three questions-
>
> 1. Really? Are 90 cuts on the ends of the braces sufficient over mitered ends?
If that were true, it sure would save me time, but I also know that the Internet
is full of really bad ideas parading as "expert advice". FWIW, I have built
and glued my first rib with the vertical braces mitered to probably within
1/16th. Am I in overkill, or doing what is the right way to construct?
>
> 2. I am thinking about building my wing ribs using Semi-Circle and Quarter-Circle
gussets (I just like the look, although, once built and covered, I won't
see them again). Since they are not the original plans type of gusset, what size
circle did some of you use for your gussets?
>
> 3. I heard the instructor in an EAA workshop I attended ask the question, "Are
you building a Timex, or a Rolex?" The point I felt he was making is that you
can build and spend thousands of extra hours fitting tolerences that don't really
make your aircraft any stronger, or you can build it using good practices
and it will be just fine. That is not the same as "The Fisherman" school of
aircraft construction, but yet it is a far cry from building a fine Swiss watch
either. I guess that I am asking for words of advice in this regard as I begin
building. Comments are appreciated.
>
> Thanks to everyone in advance for their advice. I count today in my Builder's
Log as the day I began building my Pietenpol. Everything up until now has been
"research", and I don't think the FAA or anyone else gives two hoots about how
many hours of research I did. They are more interested in what I built, how
I built it, and (at least to me) how many hours I spent building.
>
> --------
> Semper Fi,
>
> Terry
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=343267#343267
>
>
--
Ben Charvet, PharmD
Staff Pharmacist
Parrish Medical center
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Building my first wing rib - the journey begins |
| From: | "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com> |
Gary,
I don't want to buy a bridge, I just like the visual... ;o)
--------
Semper Fi,
Terry
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=343325#343325
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Schreiber" <lmforge(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Building my first wing rib - the journey begins |
Ben:
Thats how I did my rib pieces and like you it took about 1 hour per rib to
assemble. After assembling one rib, I took the staples out of the one I did
the day before. I think on my best day one Saturday, I actually did 3 ribs.
Rick Schreiber,
Valparaiso In
> [Original Message]
> From: Ben Charvet <bencharvet(at)gmail.com>
> To:
> Date: 6/17/2011 1:32:44 PM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Building my first wing rib - the journey
begins
>
> I mitered my rib pieces. If you make them like an assembly line it
> doesn't take all that long if you have a power sander. I ended up with
> all the individual rib pieces numbered and rubber banded together on my
> workbench, so putting together a rib didn't take all that long, maybe an
> hour to glue and nail one side. In the long run it doesn't cost much
> more to build a Rolex. Its your time, so its up to you. I don't regret
> it myself.
>
> Ben Charvet
> Titusville, Fl
> On 6/17/2011 8:17 AM, jarheadpilot82 wrote:
> > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by:
"jarheadpilot82"
> >
> > I am starting my first wing rib, and came across the following website-
> >
> >
http://www.2wings.com/m12/faq/wingfaq.htm#04/19/01%20RIB%20CONSTRUCTION,%20G
USSETS,%20GLUE,%20EPOXY,%20STAPLER,%20CLAMP,%20JOINT,%20CLAMPING%20SPAR%20CR
USH%20PLATE
> >
> > This website is, apparently, is a Builder's area for Pitts Model 12
aircraft. In reading through I found interesting tidbits of information,
but the following thread really caught my attention. I have cut and pasted
it here to make it easier to read-
> >
> > "I re-read Cory's post, It does sound as though Cory is gluing the
sticks together, then adding gussets to each side. This would indicate
that the sticks are custom miter fitted on each end, then glued. This is
NOT required on any gussetted aircraft rib. (emphasis mine) The size of
the gusset is engineered to have adequate shear glue strength to transfer
the loads and more. I recommend that the sticks be cut as long as you can
to fit the location with 90 deg cuts on the ends such that one corner of
the end of the stick contacts the adjacent one. Factory Pitts, Stearman and
Staggerwing ribs have no inter-stick contact in places relying on the
gussets only. Just like the roof over your head. This can save bunch of
build time. Ribs built in this manner are still stronger than the required
loads." (emphasis mine)
> >
> > I have three questions-
> >
> > 1. Really? Are 90 cuts on the ends of the braces sufficient over
mitered ends? If that were true, it sure would save me time, but I also
know that the Internet is full of really bad ideas parading as "expert
advice". FWIW, I have built and glued my first rib with the vertical braces
mitered to probably within 1/16th. Am I in overkill, or doing what is the
right way to construct?
> >
> > 2. I am thinking about building my wing ribs using Semi-Circle and
Quarter-Circle gussets (I just like the look, although, once built and
covered, I won't see them again). Since they are not the original plans
type of gusset, what size circle did some of you use for your gussets?
> >
> > 3. I heard the instructor in an EAA workshop I attended ask the
question, "Are you building a Timex, or a Rolex?" The point I felt he was
making is that you can build and spend thousands of extra hours fitting
tolerences that don't really make your aircraft any stronger, or you can
build it using good practices and it will be just fine. That is not the
same as "The Fisherman" school of aircraft construction, but yet it is a
far cry from building a fine Swiss watch either. I guess that I am asking
for words of advice in this regard as I begin building. Comments are
appreciated.
> >
> > Thanks to everyone in advance for their advice. I count today in my
Builder's Log as the day I began building my Pietenpol. Everything up until
now has been "research", and I don't think the FAA or anyone else gives two
hoots about how many hours of research I did. They are more interested in
what I built, how I built it, and (at least to me) how many hours I spent
building.
> >
> > --------
> > Semper Fi,
> >
> > Terry
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=343267#343267
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Ben Charvet, PharmD
> Staff Pharmacist
> Parrish Medical center
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "bender" <jfaith(at)solairusaviation.com> |
Got a head for my engine this week... aluminum Thomas head 7:1... and made a
decision on the ignition.
got a mallory distributor and will run dual points like the corvair guys.. i've
been driving my '30 AA a lot lately and even the original ignition it that old
truck just works. no fabbing a mount and drive for the magneto... short wire
runs.. and easy maintenance... i'm digging it.
http://s1125.photobucket.com/albums/l593/jfaithbass/
got some photos up
jeff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=343339#343339
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
Very nice looking work, Jeff! Are you coming to Brodhead this year?
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of bender
Sent: Friday, June 17, 2011 5:53 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: A engine
Got a head for my engine this week... aluminum Thomas head 7:1... and made
a decision on the ignition.
got a mallory distributor and will run dual points like the corvair guys..
i've been driving my '30 AA a lot lately and even the original ignition it
that old truck just works. no fabbing a mount and drive for the magneto...
short wire runs.. and easy maintenance... i'm digging it.
http://s1125.photobucket.com/albums/l593/jfaithbass/
got some photos up
jeff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=343339#343339
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "bender" <jfaith(at)solairusaviation.com> |
thanks
what is the date ??
i thought about riding a bike up... sold my 120
wish the piet was done ... but soon enough
jeff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=343350#343350
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
Dates for Brodhead are Thursday 7/21 thru Saturday 7/23. On Sunday
everybody either goes home or goes to Oshkosh.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of bender
Sent: Friday, June 17, 2011 7:17 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: A engine
thanks
what is the date ??
i thought about riding a bike up... sold my 120
wish the piet was done ... but soon enough
jeff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=343350#343350
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Dillsburg Closing |
| From: | Wayne Bressler <wayne(at)taildraggersinc.com> |
Saw this on the EAA site...
http://www.eaa.org/news/2011/2011-06-16_dillsburg.asp
Wayne Bressler
Taildraggers, Inc.
www.taildraggersinc.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack" <jack(at)textors.com> |
| Subject: | Another Cable Question |
Thanks Chuck I wasn't sure that type tool worked well. Looks like it does.
Jack
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charles
Campbell
Sent: Friday, June 17, 2011 8:24 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Another Cable Question
#2. I meant to attach a pic to the first post so if I can get it to come up
here it is.
----- Original Message -----
From: Jack <mailto:jack(at)textors.com>
Sent: Friday, June 17, 2011 6:33 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Another Cable Question
Jim,
I don't remember that reference in the book. I used three for my tail
cables. I have seen some with one but wonder if the tool has a wider
surface. See pictures.
Jack
DSM
http://textors.com/DSCN4200_800x600.jpg
http://textors.com/DSCN4199_800x600.jpg
http://textors.com/DSCN4201_800x600.jpg
http://textors.com/DSCN4202_800x600.jpg
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Boyer
Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2011 11:01 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Another Cable Question
Another cable question; in Bingelis books and in AC43 it says that 3/32
copper oval cable sleeves only need to be crimped once. I am using 3/32
cable for the tail brace cables and I know I have seen other Piets with 3/32
tail brace cables but don't remember ever seeing just one crimp on the
copper sleeve.
Is that what those of you using 3/32 cable are doing just one crimp? Tried
doing three last night as a test and it can be done but doesn't look well
and just one crimp makes the ends swell up like you stepped in the middle of
a balloon.
Cheers,
Jim B.
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Flight report- back in the air |
| From: | helspersew(at)aol.com |
Hello Good People,
NX929DH finally graced the skies again yesterday for 1 1/2 hrs yesterday at
Poplar Grove. All went well and she is ready to go to Brodhead. Longer rep
ort later next week when I can get back to TN and to my Internet connection
(sitting here in McDonalds in Belvidere, IL.[famous hometown of Ryan Meull
er])
Looking forward to seeing everybody. Pray for good weather.
Dan Helsper
(from) Poplar Grove, IL.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Flight report- back in the air |
| From: | "Jerry Dotson" <jdotson(at)centurylink.net> |
That is good news Dan. You taking her to Tennessee or staying in Il. Are you running
1 mag or 2?
--------
Jerry Dotson
59 Daniel Johnson Rd
Baker, FL 32531
Started building NX510JD July, 2009
wing, tailfeathers done, fuselage rolling
using Lycoming O-235
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=343377#343377
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | negative G loading for Piet wing |
That story about a Piet that lost its wing trying to do a loop was used by
BHP to explain why Jury Struts should be installed on a Pietenpol. Negative
G loading will cause the lift struts to buckle if they are not braced near
the midpoint with Jury Struts.
I've never done anything more violent that a wingover in mine. A Pietenpol
just would not be a good aerobatic platform - too slow a roll rate and way
too much drag. If you want to build an aerobatic airplane, build a Pitts.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Oscar Zuniga
Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2011 11:45 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: negative G loading for Piet wing
Mark asked-
>Do you know what the negative-G stress loading is on a piet
I'm not aeronautical engineer and I didn't sleep in a Holiday Inn
last night, but my napkin sketches and calcs indicate that negative
G loading is a weak point of the Piet structure. I may also be
very mistaken when I write this, but I believe one of the few known
structural failures of a Piet was when one fell out of a loop or
attempted a negative-G maneuver and the struts collapsed.
Normal category loading for certified aircraft is +3.8 and -1.52G
and the Piet is certainly no better rated than that, IMHO.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
Medford, OR
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Another Cable Question |
It works fine! Just takes a little longer than the one with the long
handles -- like hedge clippers. When I was rebuilding a Piper TriPacer
a few years ago I used that type. When you're working alone I believe
the type with the two bolts is easier to use.
----- Original Message -----
From: Jack
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2011 7:14 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Another Cable Question
Thanks Chuck I wasn't sure that type tool worked well. Looks like it
does.
Jack
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charles
Campbell
Sent: Friday, June 17, 2011 8:24 AM
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Another Cable Question
#2. I meant to attach a pic to the first post so if I can get it to
come up here it is.
----- Original Message -----
From: Jack
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, June 17, 2011 6:33 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Another Cable Question
Jim,
I don't remember that reference in the book. I used three for my
tail cables. I have seen some with one but wonder if the tool has a
wider surface. See pictures.
Jack
DSM
http://textors.com/DSCN4200_800x600.jpg
http://textors.com/DSCN4199_800x600.jpg
http://textors.com/DSCN4201_800x600.jpg
http://textors.com/DSCN4202_800x600.jpg
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim
Boyer
Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2011 11:01 AM
To: pietenpol-list
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Another Cable Question
Another cable question; in Bingelis books and in AC43 it says that
3/32 copper oval cable sleeves only need to be crimped once. I am using
3/32 cable for the tail brace cables and I know I have seen other Piets
with 3/32 tail brace cables but don't remember ever seeing just one
crimp on the copper sleeve.
Is that what those of you using 3/32 cable are doing just one crimp?
Tried doing three last night as a test and it can be done but doesn't
look well and just one crimp makes the ends swell up like you stepped in
the middle of a balloon.
Cheers,
Jim B.
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">h
ttp://forums.matronics.comhref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">
http://www.matronics.com/c
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Dillsburg Closing |
Someone at EAA better get their act together. Was Charlie a "WW 2 B-17
pilot" or was he the "Base Sergeant Major"? Don't believe he could have
been a B-17 pilot as a Sergeant Major.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne Bressler" <wayne(at)taildraggersinc.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2011 6:14 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Dillsburg Closing
>
>
> Saw this on the EAA site...
>
> http://www.eaa.org/news/2011/2011-06-16_dillsburg.asp
>
> Wayne Bressler
> Taildraggers, Inc.
> www.taildraggersinc.com
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gboothe5" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
I'm going to be in Bloomington, IN for a couple days and will be looking for
a Piet fix on Monday night, June 27..anybody out there?
Gary
Cool, Ca.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Dillsburg Closing |
| From: | "PatrickW" <pwhoyt(at)yahoo.com> |
Didn't know he did all the Indy & NASCAR stuff, too.
> In addition to providing aircraft grade tubing, Dillsburg supplies all of Indy
Car and NASCAR worldwide.
This business will be picked up by somebody...
- Pat
--------
Patrick Hoyt
601XLb/Corvair
N63PZ - 99.999% done....
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=343384#343384
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Doug Dever <chiefpepperhead(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Dillsburg Closing |
Actually=2C warrant officers did tly fixed wing during WWII. In the movie "
The Battle of Brittain" you will see some pilots with sergeant stripes.
That part was historically accurate. Dunno about the rest of the movie.
Doug Dever
In beautiful Stow Ohio
> From: cncampbell(at)windstream.net
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Dillsburg Closing
> Date: Sat=2C 18 Jun 2011 08:34:09 -0400
>
stream.net>
>
> Someone at EAA better get their act together. Was Charlie a "WW 2 B-17
> pilot" or was he the "Base Sergeant Major"? Don't believe he could have
> been a B-17 pilot as a Sergeant Major.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Wayne Bressler" <wayne(at)taildraggersinc.com>
> To:
> Sent: Saturday=2C June 18=2C 2011 6:14 AM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Dillsburg Closing
>
>
> >
> >
> > Saw this on the EAA site...
> >
> > http://www.eaa.org/news/2011/2011-06-16_dillsburg.asp
> >
> > Wayne Bressler
> > Taildraggers=2C Inc.
> > www.taildraggersinc.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Dillsburg Closing |
| From: | "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com> |
I don't know if EAA got it right, since they also had 4130 Aluminum tubing in the
article, but for those interested in Flying Sergeants, refer to the following
website-
http://www.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=31103853
Interesting read for us History Geeks (I am one of those that love history and
all of its minutiae)
--------
Semper Fi,
Terry
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=343395#343395
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Twin Rivers Fly-In |
Just got back from the Twin Rivers Fly-in, in the Shenandoah Valley of
Virginia. Matt Paxton keeps his brand new Pietenpol there and was flying
it, although he can't give rides yet since he's still flying off the Phase I
hours. I flew my Pietenpol in, with my wife, Karen, in the front seat.
Gene Rambo had his 1928 Travel Air 2000 there, and his friend Pete Hays had
his Skybolt. Both of them brought their sons - good to see young kids
fooling around with airplanes. In addition there were various other
airplanes there, including a Piper Comanche and a Light Sport called a
Chinook, that looks something like a Titan Tornado.
Since it was getting hot, and my Pietenpol doesn't climb all that well when
heavily loaded, I asked Gene Rambo if he would mind bringing Karen back to
Smith Mountain Lake in his Travel Air (partly because I wanted her to get
her first ride in a biplane). It had taken us 20 minutes to climb from 900'
to 3500' to get over the Blue Ridge mountains on the way there, and that was
in the morning, when it was cool.
Here is a picture of Matt's new Pietenpol. Those of you coming to Brodhead
next month will get to see it there, if he can fly another 27 hours in the
next month.
Here are some other aircraft at the fly-in:
And here is Gene's Travel Air in flight:
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Building a Piet on the farm..... |
Well that was fun! Larry Williams and Mark Chouinard came over yesterday and helped
ME work on my Piet! I've always been a little hesitant to have someone
work on it in the past. That was stupid. From now on, anyone that stops by gets
a tool (NOT to take back to it's original owner!) and a project....
It was really great having friends in my workshop...especially fun how they pitched
in and helped move my project forward a few giant steps.
Thanks guys.
Jim in Pryor....
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Flight report- back in the air |
| From: | "Brett Phillips" <bphillip(at)shentel.net> |
Very good news Dan! I too am curious to hear what you worked out.
Whatever the solution, if it works, FLY IT!
Brett Phillips
NX311GP
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | NX929DH update....Model A guys take note |
| From: | helspersew(at)aol.com |
Well,
I have put 4 hrs on her the last couple of days. This is really the first t
ime I have had uninterrupted testing time so I could digest what is really
happening to this engine. After numerous runnings I have discovered that th
e carb was running really rich, so much so that it was puffing black smoke
periodically and building up thick layers of carbon on the stacks and also
on the plugs. (This was happening some last summer also). I lowered the fue
l level in the float chamber, and this helped some to lean it out a little,
but the problem still persisted and I could not go on with any confidence.
BTW I have concluded that my engine problems from last Sept., were a direc
t result of this phenominon, not related to ignition. As it turns out the g
ood Lord was actually looking out for me that day, and allowed me to return
the the airport to discover my other problem of the second mag drive falli
ng apart. My new theory is this: When I had two functioning plugs per cylin
der, there was just enough combustion to keep me from building carbon too f
ast. On that last flight in Sept. when the 2nd mag did fail, the carbon beg
an to build to the point of the very rough running, forcing me back to the
airport to discover the timing gear disintegration.
So here is the good news. Steve Thomas (owner and benevolent king of Poplar
Grove Airport) suggested that I might try burning 100LL instead of the no-
lead car gas he has there. I had nothing to loose so I gave it a try. Went
to the pumps and filled the remaining 8 gallons of space in my tank with 10
0LL. So at that point I had about 80% 100LL in the tank. It made an immedia
te difference. No more puffs of black smoke. No more sputtering. No more mi
ssing. Plenty of power even with only the single ignition. I flew the heck
out of it right over the airport, trying to burn some gas. Went back to the
pumps again and refilled with 100LL. Flew for another hour. Had to stop be
cause I discovered a small fuel tank leak (ARRRRG). Anyway, taxied back to
the hangar and pulled the plugs to find nice, gray electrodes with NO carbo
n anywhere. I am not smart enough to know why this switch of fuel solved t
he problem. I am sure there are some on this list that can tell me.
Also, Steve T. mounted one of those GO PRO cameras on my strut and cowl. He
got some good video from that and he also took his Cub up with his son Bla
ke and took some more great air-to-air video. I don't see it posted anywher
e yet but I will watch for it and let y'all know.
So now I am feeling ALOT better about my airplane and engine, with confiden
ce levels rising. I only have to get my tank welded up and back in to be re
ady for Brodhead.
Since I have been without cable TV and Internet (we have it turned off in P
G), I have been watching the first 15 minutes of TGWP every night on the DV
D player. That has got to be the BEST movie ever. No real airplane nut coul
d ever tire of watching that little boy Scooter, at the first sound of the
airplane engine in the distance, put down his fishing rod, excitedly race w
ith his dog over to the sound of the Jenny, and upon seeing it approach ove
r the trees, fall on his back upside down to see the belly of the airplane
wizzing a few feet above his face. Maybe I'm a sap, but it gives me chills
every time.
Dan Helsper
Sitting in McDonalds. In PG till Tuesday
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | NX929DH update....Model A guys take note |
You are a sap.and don't call me Shirley.
Good to hear you're solving your engine problems, Dan. I myself am now the
proud owner of a CloudCars scimitar prop and saw an immediate improvement in
climb and a slight improvement in cruise performance. With this prop the
plane feels like a rocket climbing out on takeoff. I can hardly wait to fly
it to Brodhead.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
helspersew(at)aol.com
Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 8:36 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: NX929DH update....Model A guys take note
Well,
I have put 4 hrs on her the last couple of days. This is really the first
time I have had uninterrupted testing time so I could digest what is really
happening to this engine. After numerous runnings I have discovered that the
carb was running really rich, so much so that it was puffing black smoke
periodically and building up thick layers of carbon on the stacks and also
on the plugs. (This was happening some last summer also). I lowered the fuel
level in the float chamber, and this helped some to lean it out a little,
but the problem still persisted and I could not go on with any confidence.
BTW I have concluded that my engine problems from last Sept., were a direct
result of this phenominon, not related to ignition. As it turns out the good
Lord was actually looking out for me that day, and allowed me to return the
the airport to discover my other problem of the second mag drive falling
apart. My new theory is this: When I had two functioning plugs per cylinder,
there was just enough combustion to keep me from building carbon too fast.
On that last flight in Sept. when the 2nd mag did fail, the carbon began to
build to the point of the very rough running, forcing me back to the airport
to discover the timing gear disintegration.
So here is the good news. Steve Thomas (owner and benevolent king of Poplar
Grove Airport) suggested that I might try burning 100LL instead of the
no-lead car gas he has there. I had nothing to loose so I gave it a try.
Went to the pumps and filled the remaining 8 gallons of space in my tank
with 100LL. So at that point I had about 80% 100LL in the tank. It made an
immediate difference. No more puffs of black smoke. No more sputtering. No
more missing. Plenty of power even with only the single ignition. I flew the
heck out of it right over the airport, trying to burn some gas. Went back to
the pumps again and refilled with 100LL. Flew for another hour. Had to stop
because I discovered a small fuel tank leak (ARRRRG). Anyway, taxied back to
the hangar and pulled the plugs to find nice, gray electrodes with NO carbon
anywhere. I am not smart enough to know why this switch of fuel solved the
problem. I am sure there are some on this list that can tell me.
Also, Steve T. mounted one of those GO PRO cameras on my strut and cowl. He
got some good video from that and he also took his Cub up with his son Blake
and took some more great air-to-air video. I don't see it posted anywhere
yet but I will watch for it and let y'all know.
So now I am feeling ALOT better about my airplane and engine, with
confidence levels rising. I only have to get my tank welded up and back in
to be ready for Brodhead.
Since I have been without cable TV and Internet (we have it turned off in
PG), I have been watching the first 15 minutes of TGWP every night on the
DVD player. That has got to be the BEST movie ever. No real airplane nut
could ever tire of watching that little boy Scooter, at the first sound of
the airplane engine in the distance, put down his fishing rod, excitedly
race with his dog over to the sound of the Jenny, and upon seeing it
approach over the trees, fall on his back upside down to see the belly of
the airplane wizzing a few feet above his face. Maybe I'm a sap, but it
gives me chills every time.
Dan Helsper
Sitting in McDonalds. In PG till Tuesday
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: NX929DH update....Model A guys take note |
Great news, thanks for the update Dan. This note goes into my "engine hints" file!
It's really great to hear you have everything running again and thanks for
documenting the process. I had the same problem with carbon/black smoke on
my A. When I get it back on the fuse and running I'm going to try the solutions
you mention below. Now I'm thinking maybe I need to put my dual plug head
on. Great info.
Sorry to hear you'll be sitting in McDonalds at Poplar Grove until Tuesday. Well,
you'll meet some interesting people and make some new friends. :-)
REALLY looking forward to Brodhead this year.....
Jim in Pryor....
-----Original Message-----
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
Sent: Jun 19, 2011 7:35 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: NX929DH update....Model A guys take note
Well,
I have put 4 hrs on her the last couple of days. This is really the first time
I have had uninterrupted testing time so I could digest what is really happening
to this engine. After numerous runnings I have discovered that the carb was
running really rich, so much so that it was puffing black smoke periodically
and building up thick layers of carbon on the stacks and also on the plugs. (This
was happening some last summer also). I lowered the fuel level in the float
chamber, and this helped some to lean it out a little, but the problem still
persisted and I could not go on with any confidence. BTW I have concluded that
my engine problems from last Sept., were a direct result of this phenominon,
not related to ignition. As it turns out the good Lord was actually looking out
for me that day, and allowed me to return the the airport to discover my other
problem of the second mag drive falling apart. My new theory is this: When
I had two functioning plugs per cylinder, there was just enough combustion to
keep me from building carbon too fast. On that last flight in Sept. when the
2nd mag did fail, the carbon began to build to the point of the very rough running,
forcing me back to the airport to discover the timing gear disintegration.
So here is the good news. Steve Thomas (owner and benevolent king of Poplar Grove
Airport) suggested that I might try burning 100LL instead of the no-lead car
gas he has there. I had nothing to loose so I gave it a try. Went to the pumps
and filled the remaining 8 gallons of space in my tank with 100LL. So at that
point I had about 80% 100LL in the tank. It made an immediate difference. No
more puffs of black smoke. No more sputtering. No more missing. Plenty of power
even with only the single ignition. I flew the heck out of it right over the
airport, trying to burn some gas. Went back to the pumps again and refilled
with 100LL. Flew for another hour. Had to stop because I discovered a small fuel
tank leak (ARRRRG). Anyway, taxied back to the hangar and pulled the plugs
to find nice, gray electrodes with NO carbon anywhere. I am not smart enough
to know why this switch of fuel solved the problem. I am sure there are some
on this list that can tell me.
Also, Steve T. mounted one of those GO PRO cameras on my strut and cowl. He got
some good video from that and he also took his Cub up with his son Blake and
took some more great air-to-air video. I don't see it posted anywhere yet but
I will watch for it and let y'all know.
So now I am feeling ALOT better about my airplane and engine, with confidence levels
rising. I only have to get my tank welded up and back in to be ready for
Brodhead.
Since I have been without cable TV and Internet (we have it turned off in PG),
I have been watching the first 15 minutes of TGWP every night on the DVD player.
That has got to be the BEST movie ever. No real airplane nut could ever tire
of watching that little boy Scooter, at the first sound of the airplane engine
in the distance, put down his fishing rod, excitedly race with his dog over
to the sound of the Jenny, and upon seeing it approach over the trees, fall on
his back upside down to see the belly of the airplane wizzing a few feet above
his face. Maybe I'm a sap, but it gives me chills every time.
Dan Helsper
Sitting in McDonalds. In PG till Tuesday
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: NX929DH update....Model A guys take note |
| From: | "Brett Phillips" <bphillip(at)shentel.net> |
Dan:
It's always good to be able to take time to thoroughly analyze a problem
and think through all possible repercussions. It sounds like you have
done exactly that. I'm glad to hear that things are going your way again.
With regard to the rich mixture condition, several folks over on the
FordBarn Model A forum have complained about rich mixtures that can't be
adjusted by normal means. Some say that this is the result of oversized
jets that are being sold in rebuild kits, and others say that it is due to
differences in modern fuels from those in use when the A was new. In any
event, the usual fix is to solder the jets closed, then re-drill at a
smaller size. This will require some experimentation, but you should end
up with an engine with improved power, efficiency, and reliability. As a
starting point, here's a link to a table of various rebuilders' jet size
preferences and a short explanation of how they were originally designated:
http://www.fordgarage.com/pages/jetflowrates.htm
Assuming you also have a "B" carburetor, this is another good page from
the same site in case you haven't seen it before:
http://www.fordgarage.com/pages/bcarbassembly.htm
It'll be great to see the videos!
Brett Phillips
NX311GP
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: NX929DH update....Model A guys take note |
Jack,
Glad to hear someone else had the experience we had with a CC prop.
What's the pitch and diameter? I put ours to good effect yesterday,
'rocketing' up through an inversion to get to smooth air. BTW, not you
ever have to do these, but go-arounds became a non-event with our CC prop.
Jeff
On 6/19/11 9:27 AM, Jack Phillips wrote:
>
> You are a sap...and don't call me Shirley.
>
> Good to hear you're solving your engine problems, Dan. I myself am
> now the proud owner of a CloudCars scimitar prop and saw an immediate
> improvement in climb and a slight improvement in cruise performance.
> With this prop the plane feels like a rocket climbing out on takeoff.
> I can hardly wait to fly it to Brodhead.
>
> Jack Phillips
>
> NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
>
> Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brett Phillips" <bphillip(at)shentel.net> |
Great progress Jeff! You are clearly dedicating lots of time and effort to your
Piet, and the workmanship looks great! The distributor ignition sounds like it
will work out well. Do you have an alternator in mind? One of the little Kubota/Yanmar/John
Deere units might work well. Lots of folks are using them with
good success on other engines.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=343442#343442
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Trip review-Flight to Gardner, Kansas for WW1 replica |
fly-in
| From: | "ldmill" <lorin.miller(at)emerson.com> |
Flew the GN-1 on my first nice long cross country flight - from Marshalltown, Iowa
to Gardner, Kansas (280 miles) on Thursday/Friday for the WW1 replica fly-in.
Made it back last night at 9pm. 11.1 hours total flying time.
Flight down had some huge headwinds(20-25mph+), was down to a ground speed of 38-39
mph at times. It took 6.1 hours - much of that was due to my flying partner's
plane - he has a scratch built 6/10 scale WW1 Voison French Bomber that he
built. It cruises at 50 mph. Much S-turning for me. We stopped at Corydon, Iowa
to refuel - neat airport by some ponds with steel dinosaurs in the front yard
- my 10 yr old loved it. We also stopped at Chillicothe, Missouri to ride
out a storm (they were nice enough to stuff us in a big hanger), then headed west
to Amelia Earhart airport in Kansas - cool place to fly into - and yes, it
is the home of Amelia Earhart! We over-nighted in Lawrence, Ks due to darkness,
then to Gardner the next morning (against 15mph winds). FYI, the Missouri river
flooding is impressive!
Massive thunderstorms down there last several days - the dog chain tie downs worked
great! We had 40+ mph winds gusting upwards to 60 on Friday night. Unfortunately
- the Voison spike tie downs came loose in the soft soil and he had to
build a new lower rudder and rebuild his aileron due to hitting another airplane
and a hanger I think. We found his plane in a drainage ditch several hundred
yards away. He was in the air by 5:30 Saturday night on the way home.
There were a bunch of really cool planes down there! A gorgeous Fokker DR-1 Triplane,
many Nieuports/Sopwiths, a Siemens-Schukert, and others that I just had
no clue what they were. Met Robert Baslee again (Aerdrome Airplanes - cool place
to visit), Rick Bennet, Dick and Sharon Starks (they took a pic of my with
my GN-1 right when I got there Friday morning) FYI- when I was at Baslee's
place last year, ran into Mark Anderson who proceeded to give me a tour of his
private aircraft museum which included no less than 8 Pietenpols. He knows model
A engines extremely well. He actually has Bernie's original Corvair engine
there also. He also has an original converted Henderson that he had just taken
out of the shipping crate - it's in great condition.
My flight back (by myself) was 4 hours exactly (went southerly/eastern route around
thee Class B airspace). Rough down in Kansas city area - perfectly smooth
from about Lexington on north. I highly recommend visiting Lexington if you ever
get a chance. The owner is a total gear head that builds custom motorcycles
in his back shop and they are total eye candy! He's also a licensed parachute
rigger and jump instructor - used to compete on the US team and jumps at the
Air Force academy with the cadets occasionally. If I remember correctly, his
name is Tom Dolphin.
I really appreciated having the extra fuel in this plane - have a 14 gallon header
tank and a 4+ gallon center section tank. Made Gardner to Corydon, Iowa (190
miles) no problem. Could have made it the entire 280 mile trip almost on one
tank - but would have been on fumes with absolutely nothing left for "just in
case". Burns 4.5 g/hr with the A-75 and had an average cruise of about 74mph
on way back with slight tailwind of 2-4 mph.
Also - having an aviation GPS - while it isn't really required in a Piet/GN - and
looks kind of funny in it - is invaluable - most especially when dealing with
the Class B airspace and staying out of it. I've got an old Garmin Pilot III
that works perfect.
Oh yea - watched a Sonex in Gardner land short of the runway and ripped his titanium
gear off in a shallow rain filled swamp. Owner walked away okay. He was
coming in low and slow, got too low and hit the throttle - and the engine burped-
and that was all she wrote. He'd been having carb adjustment issues just previously
that morning.
Later!
Lorin
--------
Lorin Miller
Waiex N81YX
GN-1 N30PP
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=343456#343456
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Princell <weprincell(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Twin Rivers Fly-In |
Hi Jack:
If you had one of those 100hp crank snappers up front she could have flown
home with you.
Bill -
On Sat, Jun 18, 2011 at 6:02 PM, Jack Phillips wrot
e:
> **
>
> Just got back from the Twin Rivers Fly-in, in the Shenandoah Valley of
> Virginia. Matt Paxton keeps his brand new Pietenpol there and was flying
> it, although he can=92t give rides yet since he=92s still flying off the
Phase I
> hours. I flew my Pietenpol in, with my wife, Karen, in the front seat.
> Gene Rambo had his 1928 Travel Air 2000 there, and his friend Pete Hays h
ad
> his Skybolt. Both of them brought their sons - good to see young kids
> fooling around with airplanes. In addition there were various other
> airplanes there, including a Piper Comanche and a Light Sport called a
> Chinook, that looks something like a Titan Tornado.****
>
> ** **
>
> Since it was getting hot, and my Pietenpol doesn=92t climb all that well
when
> heavily loaded, I asked Gene Rambo if he would mind bringing Karen back t
o
> Smith Mountain Lake in his Travel Air (partly because I wanted her to get
> her first ride in a biplane). It had taken us 20 minutes to climb from 9
00=92
> to 3500=92 to get over the **Blue Ridge mountains** on the way there, and
> that was in the morning, when it was cool.****
>
> ** **
>
> Here is a picture of Matt=92s new Pietenpol. Those of you coming to Brod
head
> next month will get to see it there, if he can fly another 27 hours in th
e
> next month.****
>
> ** **
>
> ****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> Here are some other aircraft at the fly-in:****
>
> ** **
>
> ****
>
> ** **
>
> And here is Gene=92s Travel Air in flight:****
>
> ** **
>
> ****
>
> ** **
>
> Jack Phillips****
>
> NX899JP =93Icarus Plummet=94****
>
> Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia****
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Building a Piet on the farm..... |
| From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
Yep, had a great time hanging out, and Tyler always likes coming out to see the
chickens and other critters you've got running around. As for sanding... that
Doug Fir is HARD stuff! I swear you must have sharpened those ribs before I
came out just to give me something to do. HA! I've never felt wood so sharp!
Note to self... self, don't use Doug Fir.
Glad we could help out. Looking forward to the next time.
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=343471#343471
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Ohio piet fly-in washed out |
Well Guys my little fly-in was a wash.- We had the nicest Pietenpol at th
e fly-in (the only airplane there).- I am thinking of trying to do one in
the fall, possibly september if there is any interest.- The weather in j
une is so unstable, fall might be a better time to have it in the future.
- We did bring dad's 1932 1.5 ton model A Ford truck over, and his teardr
op camper he built, it will be the sleeping quarters for Brodhead.- The p
eople who drove in admired the camper as much or more than the piet.
-
Sitting on 4 dozzen hot dogs, 5 cases of soda, and many bags of dog buns,
Shad
-
-
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Trip review-Flight to Gardner, Kansas for WW1 replica |
fly-in
| From: | "skellytown flyer" <skellflyer1(at)yahoo.com> |
That friend's name would'nt be Corey would it? if so I know him. Raymond. do not
archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=343473#343473
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Ohio piet fly-in washed out |
| From: | steve emo <steve.emo58(at)gmail.com> |
freeze them for later -- I promise to try.
On Sun, Jun 19, 2011 at 4:44 PM, shad bell wrote:
> Well Guys my little fly-in was a wash. We had the nicest Pietenpol at the
> fly-in (the only airplane there). I am thinking of trying to do one in the
> fall, possibly september if there is any interest. The weather in june is
> so unstable, fall might be a better time to have it in the future. We did
> bring dad's 1932 1.5 ton model A Ford truck over, and his teardrop camper he
> built, it will be the sleeping quarters for Brodhead. The people who drove
> in admired the camper as much or more than the piet.
>
> Sitting on 4 dozzen hot dogs, 5 cases of soda, and many bags of dog buns,
> Shad
>
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Trip review-Flight to Gardner, Kansas for WW1 replica |
fly-in
| From: | "ldmill" <lorin.miller(at)emerson.com> |
Yup - that would be Corey.
--------
Lorin Miller
Waiex N81YX
GN-1 N30PP
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=343478#343478
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: NX929DH update....Model A guys take note |
| From: | "bender" <jfaith(at)solairusaviation.com> |
Hey Dan.. are you running a B carb ??
what did you do with the mixture adjustment ?
on my '30 AA truck i only open the mixture when i get water in the fuel so it will
have enough fuel to run..
otherwise the mixture is all the way closed to 1/4 turn open.. anything more and
its rich
i have a couple of aftermarket A carbs... a tillotson and a marvel ... lots of
guys swear by the tillotson X and they are both aluminum ... way lighter than
the Zenith cast iron carbs
i plan to try both of them and see how they run.. i may put em on my truck first
and see if one is better
nice to hear you're flying.... i can't wait to hear mine run
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=343481#343481
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
Here=99s picture of my throttle =9Cquadrant=9D cover
before....
Here it is, after sending 3,000 miles to engraver for
modification...(I=99ve added a primer set-up)...
Why send it 3,000 miles for engraving, you ask? Fellow Piet builder,
Jerry Dotson, does engraving as sort of a hobby, and offered! I think
it=99s cool to have contributions from other builders!
THANKS, JERRY!!!
Gary
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | NX929DH update....Model A guys take note |
Jeff,
My new prop is a 76" diameter and 38" pitch.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff
Boatright
Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 10:23 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: NX929DH update....Model A guys take note
Jack,
Glad to hear someone else had the experience we had with a CC prop. What's
the pitch and diameter? I put ours to good effect yesterday, 'rocketing' up
through an inversion to get to smooth air. BTW, not you ever have to do
these, but go-arounds became a non-event with our CC prop.
Jeff
On 6/19/11 9:27 AM, Jack Phillips wrote:
You are a sap.and don't call me Shirley.
Good to hear you're solving your engine problems, Dan. I myself am now the
proud owner of a CloudCars scimitar prop and saw an immediate improvement in
climb and a slight improvement in cruise performance. With this prop the
plane feels like a rocket climbing out on takeoff. I can hardly wait to fly
it to Brodhead.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Twin Rivers Fly-In |
Not the kind of terrain I would fly over with anything but a reliable
engine. I fixed th climb problem later in the day by installing a new
Cloudcars prop. 33% improvement in climb rate and 3 mph faster cruise.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill
Princell
Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 3:21 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Twin Rivers Fly-In
Hi Jack:
If you had one of those 100hp crank snappers up front she could have flown
home with you.
Bill -
On Sat, Jun 18, 2011 at 6:02 PM, Jack Phillips
wrote:
Just got back from the Twin Rivers Fly-in, in the Shenandoah Valley of
Virginia. Matt Paxton keeps his brand new Pietenpol there and was flying
it, although he can't give rides yet since he's still flying off the Phase I
hours. I flew my Pietenpol in, with my wife, Karen, in the front seat.
Gene Rambo had his 1928 Travel Air 2000 there, and his friend Pete Hays had
his Skybolt. Both of them brought their sons - good to see young kids
fooling around with airplanes. In addition there were various other
airplanes there, including a Piper Comanche and a Light Sport called a
Chinook, that looks something like a Titan Tornado.
Since it was getting hot, and my Pietenpol doesn't climb all that well when
heavily loaded, I asked Gene Rambo if he would mind bringing Karen back to
Smith Mountain Lake in his Travel Air (partly because I wanted her to get
her first ride in a biplane). It had taken us 20 minutes to climb from 900'
to 3500' to get over the Blue Ridge mountains on the way there, and that was
in the morning, when it was cool.
Here is a picture of Matt's new Pietenpol. Those of you coming to Brodhead
next month will get to see it there, if he can fly another 27 hours in the
next month.
Here are some other aircraft at the fly-in:
And here is Gene's Travel Air in flight:
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Ohio piet fly-in washed out |
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dHRwOi8vZm9ydW1zLm1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20NCl8tPQ0KXy09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09
PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT0NCl8tPSAgICAgICAgICAgICAt
IExpc3QgQ29udHJpYnV0aW9uIFdlYiBTaXRlIC0NCl8tPSAgVGhhbmsgeW91IGZvciB5b3VyIGdl
bmVyb3VzIHN1cHBvcnQhDQpfLT0gICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAtTWF0dCBE
cmFsbGUsIExpc3QgQWRtaW4uDQpfLT0gICAtLT4gaHR0cDovL3d3dy5tYXRyb25pY3MuY29tL2Nv
bnRyaWJ1dGlvbg0KXy09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09
PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT0NCg0KDQo
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
Very nice, Gary! I can hardly wait to see your Pietenpol floating in over
the corn at Brodhead.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Boothe
Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 6:28 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Throttle cover
Here's picture of my throttle "quadrant" cover before....
Throttle Link, 1
Here it is, after sending 3,000 miles to engraver for modification...(I've
added a primer set-up)...
Throttle - modified
Why send it 3,000 miles for engraving, you ask? Fellow Piet builder, Jerry
Dotson, does engraving as sort of a hobby, and offered! I think it's cool to
have contributions from other builders!
THANKS, JERRY!!!
Gary
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Dan Helsper and his Pietenpol at the Poplar Grove Airport |
| From: | Dan Yocum <yocum137(at)gmail.com> |
Check out this video on YouTube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MiLcMV7N8r0&feature=youtube_gdata_player
--
Dan Yocum
yocum137(at)gmail.com
"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | AMsafetyC(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Dan Helsper and his Pietenpol at the Poplar Grove |
Airport
nice job Dan, really enjoyed it. Who was flying the camera ship? Brown, new
guy?
John
In a message dated 6/19/2011 8:42:58 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
yocum137(at)gmail.com writes:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MiLcMV7N8r0&feature=youtube_gdata_player
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Pietenpol Flying Video |
My lovely wife, Karen, flew with me to Matt Paxton's Twin Rivers Airport
fly-in this weekend, This involved crossing over the Blue Ridge Mountains
to get into the Shenandoah Valley of Virginia (the pass we flew through
required us to get to about 3500' to get over it). It's nice having someone
along to flim the trip - I'm usually too busy flying to take snapshots, much
less video.
This was the last flight made with my old propeller, which gave us a rate of
climb with two people on board of between 100 and 200 fpm. My new Cloudcars
prop gives a solid 500 fpm climb so such a trip would not be so arduous.
Here's her video, showing the altitudes and airspeeds involved, The scenery
was beautiful. Too bad the weather wasn't as nice, but it wasn't bad. For
those building Pietenpols, maybe this will show you what you can expect once
you have your bird flying and can take it to local fly-ins. There's nothing
like it!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAN3oZQvpVo
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Yocum <yocum137(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Dan Helsper and his Pietenpol at the Poplar Grove |
Airport
I think Dan said it was Steve Thomas.
--
Dan Yocum
yocum137(at)gmail.com
"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
On Jun 19, 2011, at 7:51 PM, AMsafetyC(at)aol.com wrote:
> nice job Dan, really enjoyed it. Who was flying the camera ship? Brown, ne
w guy?
>
> John
>
> In a message dated 6/19/2011 8:42:58 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, yocum137@
gmail.com writes:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MiLcMV7N8r0&feature=youtube_gdata_playe
r
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Waterdown Pietenpol Picnic |
| From: | "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca> |
Yesterday was the First Annual Waterdown Pietenpol Picnic. Filling in where the
Brussels Pietenpol Picnic left off, after twenty consecutive years. The weather
was excellent. Two Air Campers in attendance, and lots of Pietenpol fans and
friends. Many in attendance got to experience first hand, the thrill of an open
cockpit Pietenpol ride.
Attached is a picture I took that I classify as one of those lucky shots - more
dumb luck than planning or skill, especially with those stupid viewing screens
on the back of the camera, as opposed to a proper viewfinder. Anyway, I like
the shot. And yes, it's a big file. Sorry... well, not really. It was even bigger,
but I reduced it to half size.
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=343504#343504
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/waterdown_410.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Waterdown Pietenpol Picnic |
| From: | "Kringle" <Mrkringles(at)msn.com> |
Nice pic! It's my new screen saver.
--------
John
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=343506#343506
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Waterdown Pietenpol Picnic |
| From: | "lowell23(at)msn.com" <lowell23(at)msn.com> |
That is a beautiful shot! Congratulations on your luck in getting it.
Lowell
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=343507#343507
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Throttle cover |
| From: | "aerocarjake" <flight.jake(at)gmail.com> |
Nice...... Aircraft Spruce is gonna want to carry them...!
--------
Jake Schultz - curator,
Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=343513#343513
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matthew VanDervort <matthew.vandervort(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Ohio piet fly-in washed out |
Sorry shad, been really busy with work.. Can i make a donation to help with
port-o-potty and what not? Let me know how!
Sent from my iPhone
On Jun 19, 2011, at 4:44 PM, shad bell wrote:
> Well Guys my little fly-in was a wash. We had the nicest Pietenpol at the
fly-in (the only airplane there). I am thinking of trying to do one in the
fall, possibly september if there is any interest. The weather in june is s
o unstable, fall might be a better time to have it in the future. We did br
ing dad's 1932 1.5 ton model A Ford truck over, and his teardrop camper he b
uilt, it will be the sleeping quarters for Brodhead. The people who drove i
n admired the camper as much or more than the piet.
>
> Sitting on 4 dozzen hot dogs, 5 cases of soda, and many bags of dog buns,
> Shad
>
>
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: NX929DH update....Model A guys take note |
| From: | helspersew(at)aol.com |
Jeff,
I am running the Zenith "B" carb. The mixture is 1 turn open. This was a re
commendation by Ken Perkins. I tried adjusting that on the ground for bette
r performance, and if I closed it I had a little roughness, but maybe now w
ith the 100LL I can try to readjust to the closed or 1/4 turn open, and see
. Thanks for the recommendation. I really appreciate the info. All the help
from the guys on this list is priceless. BTW if you might recall the probl
em I had last summer of the engine wanting to quit on final. The 100LL swit
ch has helped that too. I still need to do some more testing of trying to c
lose the throttle "over the numbers" and see if she quits now. When do you
think you will have yours running?
Dan Helsper
In PG till tomorrow. Getting my aluminum tank welded this morning. Big T-st
orms here today so probably can't fly.
-----Original Message-----
From: bender <jfaith(at)solairusaviation.com>
Sent: Sun, Jun 19, 2011 4:53 pm
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: NX929DH update....Model A guys take note
>
Hey Dan.. are you running a B carb ??
hat did you do with the mixture adjustment ?
on my '30 AA truck i only open the mixture when i get water in the fuel so
it
ill have enough fuel to run..
therwise the mixture is all the way closed to 1/4 turn open.. anything more
and
ts rich
i have a couple of aftermarket A carbs... a tillotson and a marvel ... lots
of
uys swear by the tillotson X and they are both aluminum ... way lighter tha
n
he Zenith cast iron carbs
i plan to try both of them and see how they run.. i may put em on my truck
first
nd see if one is better
nice to hear you're flying.... i can't wait to hear mine run
ead this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=343481#343481
-= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum -
-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
-= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
-= Photoshare, and much much more:
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-
-========================
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-
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-
-========================
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-= -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
-========================
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Twin Rivers Fly-In |
| From: | "Jerry Dotson" <jdotson(at)centurylink.net> |
Jack your report and Jeff Boatright's opinion of his Cloudcars prop does my heart
good. I have one still in the box and looking forward to the day I can say
how great the prop is! Note the 3/4" pipe engine mount. I still have not built
the mount. The prop is 76X44.
--------
Jerry Dotson
59 Daniel Johnson Rd
Baker, FL 32531
Started building NX510JD July, 2009
wing, tailfeathers done, fuselage rolling
using Lycoming O-235
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=343531#343531
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/a28_198.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Throttle cover |
| From: | helspersew(at)aol.com |
Gary,
Beautiful work and attention to detail!! These are the little things that
you will be very glad you took the time for. Very unique and elegant.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Waterdown Pietenpol Picnic |
Wow, what a great picture! Thanks Bill.
-----Original Message-----
>From: Bill Church <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca>
>Sent: Jun 19, 2011 9:09 PM
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Waterdown Pietenpol Picnic
>
>
>Yesterday was the First Annual Waterdown Pietenpol Picnic. Filling in where the
Brussels Pietenpol Picnic left off, after twenty consecutive years. The weather
was excellent. Two Air Campers in attendance, and lots of Pietenpol fans and
friends. Many in attendance got to experience first hand, the thrill of an
open cockpit Pietenpol ride.
>Attached is a picture I took that I classify as one of those lucky shots - more
dumb luck than planning or skill, especially with those stupid viewing screens
on the back of the camera, as opposed to a proper viewfinder. Anyway, I like
the shot. And yes, it's a big file. Sorry... well, not really. It was even bigger,
but I reduced it to half size.
>
>
>Bill C.
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=343504#343504
>
>
>Attachments:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com//files/waterdown_410.jpg
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Woodflier(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Great YouTube video of Pietenpol flight |
We have a "Holy Cow! It Flies" party on Saturday, with about 40 folks
attending. Jack Phillips flew in with his Piet and Gene Rambo flew his 1929
Travel Air down from Culpeper. Al Tucker, a good friend and talented audio and
video engineer, took a lot of photos which compiled into a great video,
complete with appropriate music. Here's a link.
_http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLE_ZpzzC9M_
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLE_ZpzzC9M)
Matt Paxton
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Dan Helsper and his Pietenpol at the Poplar Grove |
Airport
| From: | "bender" <jfaith(at)solairusaviation.com> |
awesome !!
is that the new prop Dan ??
is there a big difference in performance ??
jeff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=343542#343542
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Dan Helsper and his Pietenpol at the Poplar Grove |
Airport
| From: | helspersew(at)aol.com |
Jeff,
Jack Phillips just got the new Cloudcar prop. I am running the same one I c
arved. I need to study Jack's prop at Brodhead. Maybe I'll learn something.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
-----Original Message-----
From: bender <jfaith(at)solairusaviation.com>
Sent: Mon, Jun 20, 2011 8:54 am
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Dan Helsper and his Pietenpol at the Poplar Gr
ove Airport
>
awesome !!
is that the new prop Dan ??
is there a big difference in performance ??
jeff
ead this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=343542#343542
-= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum -
-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
-= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
-= Photoshare, and much much more:
-
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
-
-========================
-= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
-= Same great content also available via the Web Forums!
-
-= --> http://forums.matronics.com
-
-========================
-= - List Contribution Web Site -
-= Thank you for your generous support!
-= -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
-========================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gene Rambo <generambo(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Great YouTube video of Pietenpol flight |
1928=2C please. Don't know why=2C but EVERYONE always defaults to '29 for
no apparent reason. Had a blast!
Gene
From: Woodflier(at)aol.com
Date: Mon=2C 20 Jun 2011 09:38:58 -0400
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Great YouTube video of Pietenpol flight
We have a "Holy Cow! It Flies" party on Saturday=2C with about 40 folks att
ending. Jack Phillips flew in with his Piet and Gene Rambo flew his 1929 Tr
avel Air down from Culpeper. Al Tucker=2C a good friend and talented audio
and video engineer=2C took a lot of photos which compiled into a great vide
o=2C complete with appropriate music. Here's a link.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLE_ZpzzC9M
Matt Paxton
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Steve Thomas, Dan Helsper and his Pietenpol at the Poplar |
Grove Airport
Dan,
Do you know if Steve Thomas is heading here to ohio for the waco fly-in thi
s week?- I always like to stop over and say hi to him and Tom Brown (Brow
n Aero Aircamper), when they stop by.- Steve is a great guy, he helped us
out when we had to trailer 92GB home in 2006, when we tried to make Brodhe
ad.- Are you going to be at Poplar Grove this summer, or Tenn.- I will
be stopping by for fuel thurs afternoon if everything goes well.
--- On Sun, 6/19/11, Dan Yocum wrote:
From: Dan Yocum <yocum137(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Dan Helsper and his Pietenpol at the Poplar Gr
ove Airport
Date: Sunday, June 19, 2011, 9:40 PM
I think Dan said it was Steve Thomas.-
---
Dan Yocum
yocum137(at)gmail.com
"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
On Jun 19, 2011, at 7:51 PM, AMsafetyC(at)aol.com wrote:
nice job Dan, really enjoyed it. Who was flying the camera ship? Brown, new
guy?
-
John
-
In a message dated 6/19/2011 8:42:58 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, yocum137@g
mail.com writes:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MiLcMV7N8r0&feature=youtube_gdata_player
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Steve Thomas, Dan Helsper and his Pietenpol at the |
Poplar Grove Airport
| From: | helspersew(at)aol.com |
Shad,
Here is Steves email steve(at)poplargroveairmotive.com. You could ask him abou
t the Waco fly-in. I will be in PG on that Thirsday, but hopefully I mihght
be at Brodhead already by then, if all goes well. Can't wait to see you an
d your Piet again.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
-----Original Message-----
From: shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Mon, Jun 20, 2011 9:49 am
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Steve Thomas, Dan Helsper and his Pietenpol at the
Poplar Grove Airport
Dan,
Do you know if Steve Thomas is heading here to ohio for the waco fly-in thi
s week? I always like to stop over and say hi to him and Tom Brown (Brown
Aero Aircamper), when they stop by. Steve is a great guy, he helped us out
when we had to trailer 92GB home in 2006, when we tried to make Brodhead.
Are you going to be at Poplar Grove this summer, or Tenn. I will be stopp
ing by for fuel thurs afternoon if everything goes well.
--- On Sun, 6/19/11, Dan Yocum wrote:
From: Dan Yocum <yocum137(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Dan Helsper and his Pietenpol at the Poplar Gr
ove Airport
Date: Sunday, June 19, 2011, 9:40 PM
I think Dan said it was Steve Thomas.
--
Dan Yocum
yocum137(at)gmail.com
"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
On Jun 19, 2011, at 7:51 PM, AMsafetyC(at)aol.com wrote:
nice job Dan, really enjoyed it. Who was flying the camera ship? Brown, new
guy?
John
In a message dated 6/19/2011 8:42:58 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, yocum137@g
mail.com writes:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MiLcMV7N8r0&feature=youtube_gdata_player
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
pol-List
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D
-= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum -
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-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
-= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
-= Photoshare, and much much more:
-
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
-
-========================
-= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
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-
-= --> http://forums.matronics.com
-
-========================
-= - List Contribution Web Site -
-= Thank you for your generous support!
-= -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
-========================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Donald Lane" <dslane(at)embarqmail.com> |
| Subject: | NX929DH update....Model A guys take note |
I was just going to ask the list about others who have been using 100LL
in the model A.
I got the Airworthiness Certificate June 9, and waited till Fri the 17th
for Barry Triplett to make the first flight. The engine hadn't been run
for about a month and when I tried to start it just to get more time on
it before starting taxi tests, I couldn't get it running. I decided
that when Barry got here, we would get it running. We did, but it took
3 days and he had to leave after just making a couple of runs up and
down the runway. On Fri we determined the Slick mag had died even
though the engine had been running great the last time that I had it
going. The first few times I ran the engine almost 2 years ago I fueled
it with 91 octane auto gas without ethanol, and it was running fine. At
the present time it is difficult to find auto gas without ethanol near
my home, so I decided to switch to 100LL. I ran it a total of 2 hours
on the 100LL before taking it to the airport. As soon as we decided the
mag was not working, I ordered a new one overnight delivery and when we
got it in the airplane, had to spend some time getting the impulse
working reliably by shimming it back in the mounting. Once we had a
good spark, it started and ran on 2 cylinders, 1&3. Cylinders 2&4
exhaust valves were stuck open. We pulled off the side cover and
managed to loosen them up after a great deal of working them up and down
with screwdrivers. After getting compression on all 4, it started after
a great deal of priming and propping. I am sure that the sticking
valves were caused by the lead in the fuel. If anyone has had
experience with the 100LL in the A, I would like to hear about it.
Don Lane
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG FORSCOM" <steven.d.dortch(at)us.army.mil> |
| Subject: | Re: NX929DH update....Model A guys take note |
My 100LL VS AUTOFUEL experience is limited to Continental O200 (cessna 150) and
Continental E-185-11 (205 HP 1948 Bonanza)
Both engines were designed to be run on 80 octane avgas. Both have an STC for UL
autofuel. Both would run fine on either 100LL or UL AUTOFUEL.
However, Anytime I run 100LL I have to work to keep the plugs from leading up.
I lean the plane aggressively on the ground to keep the plugs hot and I lean in
the air as well. Seems that the lead likes the plugs.
On Autofuel, I always run over 89 (or higher) octane autofuel with no ethanal.
I always check every load of Autofuel for alcohol. If they screw up and put it
in a car that is one thing. But that alcohol will eat up the gaskets in both
carbs and the "Rubber" fuel tanks on the Bonanza. Having said all that it is
at least a dollar or two cheaper per gallon and The planes run better on it.
There is ZERO spark plug fowling and the planes made the same RPM/manifold pressures.
I do fill up with 100LL before parking the plane for any length of time. It is
better on the old Gas tanks and carbs. 100LL is much more stable over long term
for storage (It does not seem to evaporate as much or leave varnish)
Probably not much help but That is my knowledge of AVGAS vs AUTOFUEL.
ON the sticking valves, I would run some Marvel Mystery Oil thru the oil and gas.
I have had success with it.
Blue Skies,
Steve
OT The Beech list guys are discussing the EPA proposal of dropping 100LL as a fuel
and what the replacement might be. Lots of concern for planes that cannot
drop to a lower octane without being grounded or a significant loss of HP(RPM).
----- Original Message -----
From: Donald Lane <dslane(at)embarqmail.com>
Date: Monday, June 20, 2011 12:16
Subject: Subject: Pietenpol-List: NX929DH update....Model A guys take note
> I was just going to ask the list about others who have been using
> 100LL in the model A.
> I got the Airworthiness Certificate June 9, and waited till Fri the
> 17th for Barry Triplett to make the first flight. The engine
> hadn't been run for about a month and when I tried to start it just
> to get more time on it before starting taxi tests, I couldn't get
> it running. I decided that when Barry got here, we would get it
> running. We did, but it took 3 days and he had to leave after just
> making a couple of runs up and down the runway. On Fri we
> determined the Slick mag had died even though the engine had been
> running great the last time that I had it going. The first few
> times I ran the engine almost 2 years ago I fueled it with 91
> octane auto gas without ethanol, and it was running fine. At the
> present time it is difficult to find auto gas without ethanol near
> my home, so I decided to switch to 100LL. I ran it a total of 2
> hours on the 100LL before taking it to the airport. As soon as we
> decided the mag was not working, I ordered a new one overnight
> delivery and when we got it in the airplane, had to spend some
> time getting the impulse working reliably by shimming it back in
> the mounting. Once we had a good spark, it started and ran on 2
> cylinders, 1&3. Cylinders 2&4 exhaust valves were stuck open. We
> pulled off the side cover and managed to loosen them up after a
> great deal of working them up and down with screwdrivers. After
> getting compression on all 4, it started after a great deal of
> priming and propping. I am sure that the sticking valves were
> caused by the lead in the fuel. If anyone has had experience with
> the 100LL in the A, I would like to hear about it.
>
> Don Lane
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KM Heide CPO/FAAOP <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Building my first wing rib - the journey begins |
Tom,
When I finished my rib, I then used my table top router with trimming bit and cleaned
up all the edges. My table sander took care of the front edge of the rib
to keep it square and nicly finished.
PS.. let me know your plans for Brodhead, WI as I used to live 7 miles away in
Albany, WI for 5 years! I can assist with the area if needed. Hope to see you
their.
KMHeide
Hawley, Mn
--- On Fri, 6/17/11, tdudley(at)umn.edu wrote:
> From: tdudley(at)umn.edu <tdudley(at)umn.edu>
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Building my first wing rib - the journey begins
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Friday, June 17, 2011, 1:18 PM
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted
> by: "tdudley(at)umn.edu"
>
>
> Terry,
>
> I mitred my rib spacers and cut square/rectangular
> gussets. Do what Mark did and cut multiple spacers and
> gussets. It's really nice to be able to make a rib a
> day without having to stop and cut individual pieces.
>
> Building the ribs was great--starting on the project and
> seeing progress each day. Every part of it was
> exciting.
>
> Tom
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=343320#343320
>
>
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/rib_945.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/rib_gusset_166.jpg
>
>
>
>
> Email Forum -
> FAQ,
> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
> List Contribution Web Site -
> -Matt
> Dralle, List Admin.
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Amsafetyc(at)gmail.com" <amsafetyc(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Flight report- back in the air |
Great news Dan
Sent via DROID on Verizon Wireless
-----Original message-----
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
Sent: Sat, Jun 18, 2011 11:42:12 GMT+00:00
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Flight report- back in the air
Hello Good People,
NX929DH finally graced the skies again yesterday for 1 1/2 hrs yesterday at
Poplar Grove. All went well and she is ready to go to Brodhead. Longer
report later next week when I can get back to TN and to my Internet
connection (sitting here in McDonalds in Belvidere, IL.[famous hometown of
Ryan Meuller])
Looking forward to seeing everybody. Pray for good weather.
Dan Helsper
(from) Poplar Grove, IL.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Cloudcars Prop Performance |
OK, fellow Pieters,
This weekend I received my new Cloudcars scimitar propeller for my
Pietenpol, and yesterday I was able to get some accurate climb data to
compare to the climb data I did with the old prop last week.
My Pietenpol is heavy at 740 lbs empty and I've always been disappointed in
its climb performance. I thought it was just due to the weight until I flew
Ryan Mueller's Pietenpol to Brodhead last year with its new Cloudcars prop.
What a difference! His Piet was about 60 lbs lighter than mine, but that
couldn't account for the difference in performance. It had to be the prop.
Knowing that my new prop was about to arrive, I flew some early morning
tests this past Wednesday to measure exactly what kind of performance I was
getting with the old prop. Then, yesterday morning I did the same test with
the new prop. It was warmer yesterday and the density altitude was higher,
but even so the results with the Cloudcars prop were impressive.
Here are the data points. The first four runs were with the old prop, the
last four (in red) with the Cloudcars:
Run Speed Initial Altitude Final Altitude Time Rate of
Climb Corrected Rate of Climb*
1 50 mph 1500' 2000' 1:24
357 fpm 357 fpm
2 55 mph 1500' 2000' 1:43
291 fpm 291 fpm
3 45 mph 1700' 2200' 1:54
263 fpm 263 fpm
4 52 mph 1500' 2000' 1:20
375 fpm 375 fpm
5 50 mph 1600' 2100' 1:08
441 fpm 539 fpm
6 55 mph 1500' 2000' 1:09
435 fpm 532 fpm
7 45 mph 1550' 2050' 1:23
361 fpm 441 fpm
8 52 mph 1500' 2000' 1:00
500 fpm 611 fpm
Corrected rate of climb corrects for the difference in Density Altitude
between the two days. The first 4 runs were made at a density altitude (on
the ground) of 1800', and the second set of 4 runs were made at a density
altitude of 2200'.
So even uncorrected, the Cloudcars prop (76" x 38") performs 33% better than
the old (72" x 40" ) prop.
The numbers tell one story, but flying the new prop is incredible! The
acceleration on takeoff is much brisker than the old prop, and the airplane
leaps off the ground and climbs like a homesick angel. With the old prop, I
always had to have a discussion with the airplane to make it leave the
comfort of ground effect, and it did so only reluctantly. This is the first
time I've ever seen 500 fpm sustained on my Vertical Speed Indicator.
Here's a picture of the new prop on my airplane:
I am SO looking forward to Brodhead now. Before, I was hesitant to take
passengers because the climb rate was so abysmal. Now I'll be ready to take
a lot more, particularly pretty female passengers. I still have little
interest in taking fat old men.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Cloudcars Prop Performance |
| From: | Ken Bickers <bickers.ken(at)gmail.com> |
Jack,
I'm a big fan of data-driven analyses such as this. Your observations are
of special value to those of us still a few steps back in the building
process -- even those planning to fly behind crank snappers. :)
Thanks, Ken
On Mon, Jun 20, 2011 at 4:48 PM, Jack Phillips wrot
e:
> ******
>
> OK, fellow Pieters,****
>
> ** **
>
> This weekend I received my new Cloudcars scimitar propeller for my
> Pietenpol, and yesterday I was able to get some accurate climb data to
> compare to the climb data I did with the old prop last week.****
>
> ** **
>
> My Pietenpol is heavy at 740 lbs empty and I=92ve always been disappointe
d in
> its climb performance. I thought it was just due to the weight until I f
lew
> Ryan Mueller=92s Pietenpol to Brodhead last year with its new Cloudcars p
rop.
> What a difference! His Piet was about 60 lbs lighter than mine, but that
> couldn=92t account for the difference in performance. It had to be the p
rop.
> ****
>
> ** **
>
> Knowing that my new prop was about to arrive, I flew some early morning
> tests this past Wednesday to measure exactly what kind of performance I w
as
> getting with the old prop. Then, yesterday morning I did the same test w
ith
> the new prop. It was warmer yesterday and the density altitude was highe
r,
> but even so the results with the Cloudcars prop were impressive.****
>
> ** **
>
> Here are the data points. The first four runs were with the old prop, th
e
> last four (in red) with the Cloudcars:****
>
> ** **
>
> *Run* *Speed * *Initial Altitude* *Final Altitude* *Time*
> *Rate of Climb* *Corrected Rate of Climb**
>
> ** **
>
> 1 50 mph 1500=92 2000=92 1:24
> 357 fpm 357 fpm****
>
> ** **
>
> 2 55 mph 1500=92 2000=92 1:43
> 291 fpm 291 fpm****
>
> ** **
>
> 3 45 mph 1700=92 2200=92 1:54
> 263 fpm 263 fpm****
>
> ** **
>
> 4 52 mph 1500=92 2000=92 1:20
> 375 fpm 375 fpm****
>
> ** **
>
> 5 50 mph 1600=92 2100=92 1:08
> 441 fpm 539 fpm****
>
> ** **
>
> 6 55 mph 1500=92 2000=92 1:09
> 435 fpm 532 fpm****
>
> ** **
>
> 7 45 mph 1550=92 2050=92 1:23
> 361 fpm 441 fpm****
>
> ** **
>
> 8 52 mph 1500=92 2000=92 1:00
> 500 fpm 611 fpm****
>
> ** **
>
> Corrected rate of climb corrects for the difference in Density Altitude
> between the two days. The first 4 runs were made at a density altitude (
on
> the ground) of 1800=92, and the second set of 4 runs were made at a densi
ty
> altitude of 2200=92.****
>
> ** **
>
> So even uncorrected, the Cloudcars prop (76=94 x 38=94) performs 33% bett
er
> than the old (72=94 x 40=94 ) prop.****
>
> ** **
>
> The numbers tell one story, but flying the new prop is incredible! The
> acceleration on takeoff is much brisker than the old prop, and the airpla
ne
> leaps off the ground and climbs like a homesick angel. With the old prop
, I
> always had to have a discussion with the airplane to make it leave the
> comfort of ground effect, and it did so only reluctantly. This is the fi
rst
> time I=92ve ever seen 500 fpm sustained on my Vertical Speed Indicator.**
**
>
> ** **
>
> Here=92s a picture of the new prop on my airplane:****
>
> ** **
>
> ****
>
> ** **
>
> I am SO looking forward to Brodhead now. Before, I was hesitant to take
> passengers because the climb rate was so abysmal. Now I=92ll be ready to
take
> a lot more, particularly pretty female passengers. I still have little
> interest in taking fat old men.****
>
> ** **
>
> Jack Phillips****
>
> NX899JP =93Icarus Plummet=94****
>
> ****Smith Mountain Lake**, **Virginia********
>
> ** **
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Cloudcars Prop Performance |
| From: | "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com> |
A few years ago I had Ed Sterba carve a prop for me. After a lot of research I
told him I wanted it to be a 76 x 38. When I replaced my 72 x 42 with it I was
very surprised at the performance. Since then I've been able to get a hold
of a Falcon prop that performs close to the same but I just love the looks of
it with the brass leading edge and all. So I sold the Sterba. But the Pietenpol
really does need a larger diameter flatter pitch prop for the engines that
turn somewhere in the 2100 rpm range. All that drag out there really needs
that large prop disk to be effective at the slower speeds.
Glad you are happy with it Jack!
Don Emch
NX899DE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=343627#343627
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jeff wilson <jlwilsonnn(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Cloudcars Prop Performance |
-
Hey Guys,
-
I've been following the discussion about Cloudcars- Props for a little ov
er a year now.
-
Jack, thanks for the excellent data.- I have a Hegy semi scimitar 72 x 42
that I have not yet mounted and tested but now when I do finally get her f
lying, I'll have some solid numbers to compare to.
-
-I have two different Piets I may be able to try it on. One is the chapte
r project,-an 800 pound GN-1 witrh an 0-200, the other is my long fuse Pi
et with an A-65. It may come in around 670 lbs.-
-
Jack, the main difference I see is your 38" pitch. Great climb performance
but what is your cruise performance and what size engine are you using?
-
Jeff Wilson
St. Louis
N899WT
75% done, 74% to go.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Subject: NX929DH update....Model A guys take note |
| From: | "Pieti Lowell" <Lowellcfrank(at)yahoo.com> |
Don
I can give you my experiences from a few years of Ford and Funk engines. Only a
touch !
I use fresh fuel only if it is "Auto", less than 1 year old.
100 Oct will hold out much longer 2 years in a can , and works.
Now. I have mentioned a number of times the following.
I used to mix Marvel with all fuel, and didn't have a problem, I have been using
a different mix, with the hottest plugs available I.E.,& at the same mix ratio
: Amsoil 2 cycle oil : , Clearances of all valves .012", 7.5:1 compression.Never
a stuck valve ! !
I have run out of water an flew and added 30 min. oil temps over 350 Deg. and still
never damaged my Ford. I run inserts and a few mods if you are interested
in the old stuff.
I am now trying a horizontal flow radiator, that allows 10" open area up to the
wing, and fly very differently. Will be at brodhead again.
Pieti Lowell
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=343634#343634
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Cloudcars Prop Performance |
Actually I think the 76" diameter has more effect than the lower pitch. It
allows 11% more swept area, moving a larger column of air.
Cruise performance with the Sensenich 72 x 40: 2150 RPM yields 65 mph
Cruise performance with the Cloudcars: 2150 RPM yields 69 mph
Calculating efficiencies based on the above gives an efficiency for the
Sensenich of 79.83%. The Cloudcars has an efficiency of 89.20%.
The combination of moving more air and doing it more efficiently is the key
to the Cloudcars performance.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Smith Mountin Lake, Virginia
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of jeff wilson
Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 9:24 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Cloudcars Prop Performance
Hey Guys,
I've been following the discussion about Cloudcars Props for a little over
a year now.
Jack, thanks for the excellent data. I have a Hegy semi scimitar 72 x 42
that I have not yet mounted and tested but now when I do finally get her
flying, I'll have some solid numbers to compare to.
I have two different Piets I may be able to try it on. One is the chapter
project, an 800 pound GN-1 witrh an 0-200, the other is my long fuse Piet
with an A-65. It may come in around 670 lbs.
Jack, the main difference I see is your 38" pitch. Great climb performance
but what is your cruise performance and what size engine are you using?
Jeff Wilson
St. Louis
N899WT
75% done, 74% to go.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Woodflier(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Cloudcars prop performance |
Jack, glad you got the kind of performance improvement you were hoping for.
I wonder what I would get with a longer prop like you got. Mine's 72 X 44
but I'm very satisfied with the performance. Now less worries about getting
over those West Va mountains.
Matt Paxton
NX629ML
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Woodflier(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Twin Rivers flying |
Sorry Gene. With the Piet's first flight date in '29, I had that on the
brain. Sure good to see you and the Travel Air and great that you brought
Will, Peter and Peter.
Matt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Boatright, Jeffrey" <jeffboatright(at)emory.edu> |
| Subject: | Cloudcars Prop Performance |
Jack,
Stunning! Your 30% performance increase may be even better than what we get
! No question, the CC prop was the biggest performance gain per dollar (and
per unit of effort) that we've seen out our Piet.
Jeff Boatright
PS: It looks great, too!
________________________________
This e-mail message (including any attachments) is for the sole use of
the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged
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recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution
or copying of this message (including any attachments) is strictly
prohibited.
If you have received this message in error, please contact
the sender by reply e-mail message and destroy all copies of the
original message (including attachments).
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mark lee <mlmarkelee7(at)gmail.com> |
I'm interested if anyone has found a diesel engine suitable for a
Pietenpol.The name Chris Rusch came up as a possible diesel engine user.I
don't see his name in the posts etc.Anyone know anything on this subject?
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Dan Helsper and his Pietenpol at the Poplar Grove |
Airport
| From: | "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com> |
I think you are having way too much fun Dan! Very Nice!!!
Don Emch
NX899DE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=343677#343677
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Dan Helsper and his Pietenpol at the Poplar Grove |
Airport
| From: | "bubbleboy" <scott.dawson3(at)bigpond.com> |
After watching that I got off my rear end and glued rib 31! Very inspirational!
Thanks for posting that Dan!
Scotty
--------
Scotty
Tamworth, Australia
Building a Corvair Powered Pietenpol Air Camper
www.scottyspietenpol.com
Rudder, Vert stab, Elevators and 30 Ribs built...
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=343681#343681
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Gasoline questions |
| From: | helspersew(at)aol.com |
Ok, I guess I don't get it.
In the last day or so there have been several posts detailing anecdotal exp
eriences with the use of different gasolines, comparing 100LL, unleaded aut
o fuel etc. Some of the posts blamed the lead for fouling of plugs, and als
o sticking of valves, and the implication was that the lead was a "bad" thi
ng. When I went to A&P school, oh those many years ago, I can recall that t
he reason for the lead was that there was some advantage to scavenging of e
xhaust gasses. Seeing that the addition of lead to gasoline was the norm fo
r many decades, I can only assume that the lead was added for a reason, cre
ating some advantage in engine performance. The old 100 octane aviation gas
oline had much more lead than the modern 100LL. The "wizards of smart" that
were responsible for such things must have had a good reason for leaving s
ome lead in the 100LL. How can the little bit of lead that is now used be r
esponsible for plug and valve problems, but for all those previous decades
it was just fine and dandy?
Anyone with an opinion, informed or not, please chime-in so I can be enligh
tened (or entertained at least) :O)
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gene Rambo <generambo(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Gasoline questions |
Lead lubricates valves. The stuff on plugs is CARBON, not lead.
Gene Rambo
Sent from my iPhone
On Jun 21, 2011, at 8:58 PM, helspersew(at)aol.com wrote:
> Ok, I guess I don't get it.
>
> In the last day or so there have been several posts detailing anecdotal ex
periences with the use of different gasolines, comparing 100LL, unleaded aut
o fuel etc. Some of the posts blamed the lead for fouling of plugs, and also
sticking of valves, and the implication was that the lead was a "bad" thing
. When I went to A&P school, oh those many years ago, I can recall that the r
eason for the lead was that there was some advantage to scavenging of exhaus
t gasses. Seeing that the addition of lead to gasoline was the norm for many
decades, I can only assume that the lead was added for a reason, creating s
ome advantage in engine performance. The old 100 octane aviation gasoline ha
d much more lead than the modern 100LL. The "wizards of smart" that were res
ponsible for such things must have had a good reason for leaving some lead i
n the 100LL. How can the little bit of lead that is now used be responsible f
or plug and valve problems, but for all those previous decades it was just f
ine and dandy?
>
> Anyone with an opinion, informed or not, please chime-in so I can be enlig
htened (or entertained at least) :O)
>
> Dan Helsper
> Puryear, TN.
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gene Rambo <generambo(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Gasoline questions |
And, tetraethyl lead boosts octane, but I am no chemist.
Gene Rambo
Sent from my iPhone
On Jun 21, 2011, at 8:58 PM, helspersew(at)aol.com wrote:
> Ok, I guess I don't get it.
>
> In the last day or so there have been several posts detailing anecdotal ex
periences with the use of different gasolines, comparing 100LL, unleaded aut
o fuel etc. Some of the posts blamed the lead for fouling of plugs, and also
sticking of valves, and the implication was that the lead was a "bad" thing
. When I went to A&P school, oh those many years ago, I can recall that the r
eason for the lead was that there was some advantage to scavenging of exhaus
t gasses. Seeing that the addition of lead to gasoline was the norm for many
decades, I can only assume that the lead was added for a reason, creating s
ome advantage in engine performance. The old 100 octane aviation gasoline ha
d much more lead than the modern 100LL. The "wizards of smart" that were res
ponsible for such things must have had a good reason for leaving some lead i
n the 100LL. How can the little bit of lead that is now used be responsible f
or plug and valve problems, but for all those previous decades it was just f
ine and dandy?
>
> Anyone with an opinion, informed or not, please chime-in so I can be enlig
htened (or entertained at least) :O)
>
> Dan Helsper
> Puryear, TN.
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Gasoline questions |
| From: | "Jerry Dotson" <jdotson(at)centurylink.net> |
Here are some links that might clear the air a little. I will state my opinion
and it is no engine with a compression ratio of 7.0 or less needs any lead at
all. Lead is an octane booster. Read the Shell link closely.
http://www.shell.com/home/content/aviation/aeroshell/technical_talk/techart18_30071600.html
http://www.ngksparkplugs.com/tech_support/spark_plugs/faqs/faqread.asp
--------
Jerry Dotson
59 Daniel Johnson Rd
Baker, FL 32531
Started building NX510JD July, 2009
wing, tailfeathers done, fuselage rolling
using Lycoming O-235
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=343700#343700
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Gasoline questions |
| From: | "Billy McCaskill" <billmz(at)cox.net> |
I have always heard that lead protected the valves and the valve seats, which is
why cars manufactured prior to the introduction of unleaded gas did not use
hardened valve seats. I've seen cylinder heads from the 1960's and 70's where
the valve seats have receded into the heads from excessive running on no-lead
fuel. It is recommended to have hardened valve seats installed in vintage cylinder
heads if you plan to drive the car (or fly the plane, Corvair guys) a lot
on today's formulation of automotive gasoline.
I have also heard that the lead increased the 'knock-resistance" of the fuel, probably
from creating a higher octane rating as Gene mentioned... Anybody who
was driving in the 60's and early 70's will remember that the "low grade" gas
was 94 octane, and "Super" 103-108 octane was common in gas stations back then.
The owner's manual for my 1967 Ford Fairlane 500 with the 200hp 289 specifies
that the car be run on a MINIMUM of 94 octane gas, and if the car were to
have the 300 0r 325hp, 390 cubic inch engine, they recommended 97 or higher.
At the pump today, 93 is about the BEST you'll find although I do occasionally
see 95 octane available at some Shell stations.
--------
Billy McCaskill
Urbana, IL
tail section almost done, starting on ribs soon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=343708#343708
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol Flying Video |
| From: | "rvanengen" <rvanengen(at)gmail.com> |
Makes me grin just watching...got the plans and starting to get the garage cleared
out (and an A/C unit installed). :D
--------
--Randall
02xB || !02xB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=343723#343723
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Clif Dawson" <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Cloudcars Prop Performance |
Don't forget that some makers use the flat side of the
blade as reference for pitch and others use the
airfoil chord line. Two different 40" pitch props may
not be the same pitch at all.
That info is important for any meaningful comparison.
Clif
Cruise performance with the Sensenich 72 x 40: 2150 RPM yields 65 mph
Cruise performance with the Cloudcars: 2150 RPM yields 69 mph
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Smith Mountin Lake, Virginia
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Donald Lane" <dslane(at)embarqmail.com> |
| Subject: | Gasoline questions |
Thanks to everyone for the advice on fuel for the A engine.
I have the engine down now to redo the exhaust stacks. I will keep the
valves well oiled in the meantime and maybe put a little oil in the fuel
when I restart it.
Don L
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Gasoline questions |
| From: | "Jerry Dotson" <jdotson(at)centurylink.net> |
I have a pretty good bit of auto gas experience but not in recent years. We ran
auto gas in a Pawnee with an O-540 235 HP and a Stearman with a P&W 985 in the
70's. That gas had some lead in it. Then a Cessna 150 with an O-320 150 HP off
a Piper Apache for several years with zero problems. The gas I ran in the Cessna
150 was unleaded 89 octane from Standard Oil. Filled it from my 500 gallon
tank. I never got past the smell. The only difference I could tell between
avgas and auto gas was the smell.
--------
Jerry Dotson
59 Daniel Johnson Rd
Baker, FL 32531
Started building NX510JD July, 2009
wing, tailfeathers done, fuselage rolling
using Lycoming O-235
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=343742#343742
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ben Charvet <bencharvet(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Gasoline questions |
I've heard lots of stories of sticking valves in small continentals like
the A-65 when using 100LL. I've been told its because they don't run
hot enough to prevent the lead from depositing on the shaft of the
valve, causing it to bind in the guide. An old A&P that was expaining it
to me called it 100*L*otsa *L*ead. I live in Florida, and rarely see
my oil temps above 140. Another thing to consider is the difference in
specific gravity between 100LL and auto gas. This effectively changes
the float level, which changes your mixture. When I rebuilt my carb, I
used non-ethanol auto gas to set the float level
On 6/21/2011 8:58 PM, helspersew(at)aol.com wrote:
Ben Charvet
Expected 103 Heat index today. Probably 2000' density altitude at 35 msl
Titusville, Fl
> Ok, I guess I don't get it.
> In the last day or so there have been several posts detailing
> anecdotal experiences with the use of different gasolines, comparing
> 100LL, unleaded auto fuel etc. Some of the posts blamed the lead for
> fouling of plugs, and also sticking of valves, and the implication was
> that the lead was a "bad" thing. When I went to A&P school, oh those
> many years ago, I can recall that the reason for the lead was that
> there was some advantage to scavenging of exhaust gasses. Seeing that
> the addition of lead to gasoline was the norm for many decades, I can
> only assume that the lead was added for a reason, creating some
> advantage in engine performance. The old 100 octane aviation gasoline
> had much more lead than the modern 100LL. The "wizards of smart" that
> were responsible for such things must have had a good reason for
> leaving some lead in the 100LL. How can the little bit of lead that is
> now used be responsible for plug and valve problems, but for all those
> previous decades it was just fine and dandy?
> Anyone with an opinion, informed or not, please chime-in so I can be
> enlightened (or entertained at least) :O)
> Dan Helsper
> Puryear, TN.
> *
>
>
> *
--
Ben Charvet, PharmD
Staff Pharmacist
Parrish Medical center
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Cloudcars Prop Performance |
I seem to remember a post a while back about these props having a "short li
fe span". I don't remember any details other then the person was looking in
to buying a new prop and said one draw back tothe Cloudcarse props was a sh
ort life span.- Anyone have details on this?
Michael Perez
=0AKaretaker Aero
=0Awww.karetakeraero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG FORSCOM" <steven.d.dortch(at)us.army.mil> |
| Subject: | Re: Gasoline questions |
My airport coffee discussions lead me to believe that plug fowling is more of a
problem on the early engines that were OK with 80 Octane than on engines that
require the higher octane.
While I will probably be able to fly my old Bonanza on anything with the octane
of hair oil, There is concern that suddenly stopping the use of 100 LL with no
replacement could ground 20 % of our fleet. That affects everyone who flies.
We don't need a divot like that in our pilot population.
Blue Skies,
Steve D
----- Original Message -----
From: Ben Charvet <bencharvet(at)gmail.com>
Date: Wednesday, June 22, 2011 7:18
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Gasoline questions
> I've heard lots of stories of sticking valves in small continentals
> like
> the A-65 when using 100LL. I've been told its because they don't
> run
> hot enough to prevent the lead from depositing on the shaft of the
> valve, causing it to bind in the guide. An old A&P that was
> expaining it
> to me called it 100*L*otsa *L*ead. I live in Florida, and rarely
> see
> my oil temps above 140. Another thing to consider is the
> difference in
> specific gravity between 100LL and auto gas. This effectively
> changes
> the float level, which changes your mixture. When I rebuilt my
> carb, I
> used non-ethanol auto gas to set the float level
> On 6/21/2011 8:58 PM, helspersew(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> Ben Charvet
> Expected 103 Heat index today. Probably 2000' density altitude at
> 35 msl
> Titusville, Fl
> > Ok, I guess I don't get it.
> > In the last day or so there have been several posts detailing
> > anecdotal experiences with the use of different gasolines,
> comparing
> > 100LL, unleaded auto fuel etc. Some of the posts blamed the lead
> for
> > fouling of plugs, and also sticking of valves, and the
> implication was
> > that the lead was a "bad" thing. When I went to A&P school, oh
> those
> > many years ago, I can recall that the reason for the lead was
> that
> > there was some advantage to scavenging of exhaust gasses. Seeing
> that
> > the addition of lead to gasoline was the norm for many decades, I
> can
> > only assume that the lead was added for a reason, creating some
> > advantage in engine performance. The old 100 octane aviation
> gasoline
> > had much more lead than the modern 100LL. The "wizards of smart"
> that
> > were responsible for such things must have had a good reason for
> > leaving some lead in the 100LL. How can the little bit of lead
> that is
> > now used be responsible for plug and valve problems, but for all
> those
> > previous decades it was just fine and dandy?
> > Anyone with an opinion, informed or not, please chime-in so I can
> be
> > enlightened (or entertained at least) :O)
> > Dan Helsper
> > Puryear, TN.
> > *
> >
> >
> > *
>
>
> --
> Ben Charvet, PharmD
> Staff Pharmacist
> Parrish Medical center
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Cloudcars Prop Performance |
| From: | "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca> |
The unsubstantiated "short life span" claim was regarding scimitar propellers in
general, NOT Cloudcars propellers. However, Cloudcars did issue a response when
the question was posed:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=69612
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=343760#343760
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Cloudcars Prop Performance |
Thanks Bill.
Michael Perez
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Cloudcars Prop Performance |
For those of us whom use these propellers, how do they compare in price to other
appropriately sized propellers? I am very interested in using one when the time
comes.
Michael Perez
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Gasoline questions |
| From: | "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org> |
I am flying behind stock Cont. C-85-12F engine with the old style cylinder heads.
I have an all metal fuel system except for an 8" piece of aircraft quality
air-quip hose between the gascolator and carb. I have a metal float and needle
and seat in my carb. Here is my experience with auto and 100LL. I have found
that when I run pure auto gas that it is a little harder to start but still
easy to do whether the engine is hot or cold. If I run the auto gas for a few
hundred hours without the Marvel Mystery oil in the gas, I risk sticking an
exhaust valve on the right front cylinder. The fix is to just remove the exhaust
valve and run a 7/16" reamer through the guide, hand lap the valve and re
assemble it. Now if I run 100LL it will start with less priming and will flood
easier when hot. If pure 100LL is run for about 60 to 80hours I will be blessed
with a lead fowled lower plug. All that being said, I typically will fill
up with auto one time and 100LL the next time without the use of the Marvel
Mystery oil. I have never had a problem with this method and it is easy to do
if you are just flying locally. Out here on the west coast we don't have Mogas
available at the airports. One other point I must make. Because I have an
all metal fuel system and don't fly above 9000 feet, I have never been concerned
with the auto gas additives (alcohol and ethanol) and have not had any engine
problems related to them. Maybe I am just lucky.
Your results may vary, [/b]
--------
Scott Liefeld
Flying N11MS since March 1972
Steel Tube
C-85-12
Wire Wheels
Brodhead in 1996
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=343766#343766
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Gasoline questions |
100 Octane (the green stuff) had 10 times the amount of lead that was in
80/87 (the old red stuff). 100LL (the blue stuff) has less lead that 100,
but it still has 4 times as much as 80 Octane had.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ben Charvet
Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2011 8:11 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Gasoline questions
I've heard lots of stories of sticking valves in small continentals like the
A-65 when using 100LL. I've been told its because they don't run hot enough
to prevent the lead from depositing on the shaft of the valve, causing it to
bind in the guide. An old A&P that was expaining it to me called it 100
Lotsa Lead. I live in Florida, and rarely see my oil temps above 140.
Another thing to consider is the difference in specific gravity between
100LL and auto gas. This effectively changes the float level, which changes
your mixture. When I rebuilt my carb, I used non-ethanol auto gas to set
the float level
On 6/21/2011 8:58 PM, helspersew(at)aol.com wrote:
Ben Charvet
Expected 103 Heat index today. Probably 2000' density altitude at 35 msl
Titusville, Fl
Ok, I guess I don't get it.
In the last day or so there have been several posts detailing anecdotal
experiences with the use of different gasolines, comparing 100LL, unleaded
auto fuel etc. Some of the posts blamed the lead for fouling of plugs, and
also sticking of valves, and the implication was that the lead was a "bad"
thing. When I went to A&P school, oh those many years ago, I can recall that
the reason for the lead was that there was some advantage to scavenging of
exhaust gasses. Seeing that the addition of lead to gasoline was the norm
for many decades, I can only assume that the lead was added for a reason,
creating some advantage in engine performance. The old 100 octane aviation
gasoline had much more lead than the modern 100LL. The "wizards of smart"
that were responsible for such things must have had a good reason for
leaving some lead in the 100LL. How can the little bit of lead that is now
used be responsible for plug and valve problems, but for all those previous
decades it was just fine and dandy?
Anyone with an opinion, informed or not, please chime-in so I can be
enlightened (or entertained at least) :O)
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN.
--
Ben Charvet, PharmD
Staff Pharmacist
Parrish Medical center
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Barry Davis" <bed(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Lead on Skark plugs. |
I wish I had taken more pictures of all the "lead" I flaked out of the
cylinders and out of these plugs. It filled the palm of my hand, twice! This
is the result of a trip from Atlanta to Key West, Fl. One summer, Harold and
I decided to fly to Key West, so off we went. Mike flew with me in the
straight tail 150 and Paul rode along with Harold in his 100HP J3 Cub. On
the trip I had to fly at 1900 to 2050 RPM to be able to fly beside the Cub.
Normally I fly the Cessna at 2550 cruise. At this reduced setting, the
engine never got up to operating temperature. We logged 25 hours of flying
time on this trip over a 10 day period, but did not realize I was having a
problem until about a month later. On landing at Huntsville, AL, I got 2
stuck valves on final at the airport. I got them unstuck and flew back home,
but one valve stuck again when I reduced power at my home airport. I pulled
the cylinders and cleaned about a half pint of chalky tan lead deposits out
of the cylinders and had to really work on the spark plugs. Jump ahead 2
years - The first year that a couple of the Big Piets went to Sun n Fun, I
flew the Cessna with spare parts and tools, just in case we had a problem. I
had the same lead problem flying with the Piets. I had to fly at 1800 to
1900 RPM for 12 hours and got the same leading problem. this time I tried
the "knock the valve into the cylinder" fix and everything is back to
normal. (see article I wrote in the June Sport Aviation)
So the moral of this story is: When the Cubs fly somewhere, I fly my Cub.
When the Cessnas fly, I fly the Cessna, and for the Big Piets, same applies.
Now I have no more lead fouling problems.
Barry
NX973BP
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Gasoline questions |
| From: | "Jerry Dotson" <jdotson(at)centurylink.net> |
My brother has a Skyranger with 240 hours on the Rotax 912ULS running 93 octane
with 10% ethanol with no problems to date. We can't find any gas without ethanol
in it. The only difference we can tell between the non-ethanol and the 10%
ethanol is it takes a little more per hour but not much more. He has been running
the 10% ethanol since 2007.
--------
Jerry Dotson
59 Daniel Johnson Rd
Baker, FL 32531
Started building NX510JD July, 2009
wing, tailfeathers done, fuselage rolling
using Lycoming O-235
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=343773#343773
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Gasoline questions |
| From: | "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org> |
I didn't think you would catch on to my secret. Yes, the chickens have wings and
wings create lift. That's why my plane climbs so well.
Want to know another secret? If you remove the inspection plates from the bottom
of the wings and then fly upside down, All the lift will fall out. Not good!
Secrets are out.
--------
Scott Liefeld
Flying N11MS since March 1972
Steel Tube
C-85-12
Wire Wheels
Brodhead in 1996
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=343774#343774
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Lead on Skark plugs. |
| From: | "Jerry Dotson" <jdotson(at)centurylink.net> |
Barry at that low of a power setting(1900 to 2050 RPM) you can lean your engine
until it starts getting rough and push the mixture back in just far enough to
smooth it up and really help with that problem. You can't hurt an engine at that
low power. Just have to remember before landing to go back full rich in case
of needing a go round. I spotted fish in a 150 Super Cub at just enough power
to keep it airborne for hours at a time. It would gunk up like that if you
didn't lean the heck out of it.
--------
Jerry Dotson
59 Daniel Johnson Rd
Baker, FL 32531
Started building NX510JD July, 2009
wing, tailfeathers done, fuselage rolling
using Lycoming O-235
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=343777#343777
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Corvair College #20 |
| From: | "coxwelljon" <coxwelljon(at)frontiernet.net> |
This is a little late but I thought I would post anyway for those Corvair guys
or those considering the Corvair engine. Early in the month I loaded my engine
parts and drove some 650 miles to Corvair College #20 in hopes that I could
assemble and run my engine. This was wishful thinking but the experience of attending
was well worth it. I am reconverting an engine that came with a project
and it was supposed to be ready to fly and actually had been run for 5 hrs
static. I got wind of some things that had not been done so I decided to disassemble
my engine and make some changes. I also saw the location of Corvair
College #20 and decided it was happening about as close as I would find to my
location, at least for the foreseeable future.
My engine did not have a nitrided crank or forged pistons which was the main reason
for me deciding to disassemble it. I want to add a pitch here. I found
the name of Advanced Heat Treat Corp. on Mark Langford's website as a place that
does nitriding. This is not the firm that William Wynn recommends but I decided
to use them as they are a company with some 30 years of experience in the
treatment of metals. They also had a competitive price. I sent them my crankshaft
and picked it up at one of their facilities on my way to the CC#20.
I cannot say enough good things about the way I was treated. They went out of
their way to accomodate my situation and I was only getting one crank done by
a facility that is set up to do production work for manufacturing. I even got
a handwritten thank you for my business after I returned home. They would certainly
be my choice again for magnafluxing and nitriding.
Now some about the College. There were about 60 people there and I would say that
there were 20 engines in various stages from disassembly to final running.
I think 12 to 15 engines ran on the test stand. There were also flying examples
of corvair powered aircraft there to look at and talk with the builders.
The following are some of my thoughts.
1. The college did not include "lecture" sessions with handouts or diagrams but
was very much a hands on workshop. That said I was glad I had my engine parts
there to work on and I was not just an onlooker. One can get a lot out of
watching, but the real value for me was actually working with the tools and getting
a feel for what I was doing.
2. You will see a lot of different solution to the same problems so the opportunity
to circulate around and talk to other builders is invaluable. One may have
made up their mind on a particular part to buy or not to buy and the give
and take with other builders is a big advantage.
3. There were 3 experts there and their time obviously got divided up among the
various projects. At times is was necessary to be a little forward to get their
attention, but doing so resulted in how to sessions that benefited the whole
group. If you attend and see a group gathered go see what is going on. It
likely will be something you will also need to do or have done.
4. There was a real sense of sharing of tools, parts, and expertise. My table
mate was continually into my tool box and I was borrowing special tools from
other tables. When I needed to start a particular phase the guy from the table
next to me was there to show me the process as he had already done his. Parts
that I had were used on other engines to get them on the test stand, and my
table mate borrowed a whole starter assembly from another engine to get his on
the test stand.
5. Some lasting friendship were created. I received 2 emails as soon as I got
home from people I met inquiring about my return trip and with promised information.
I got there the day before everything started and 5 of us who did not
know each other went out to dinner together to get acquainted.
6. Food was good and no one went away hungry.
7. I enjoyed getting to know William Wynne, and Roy Szarafinski of Roy's Garageon
on a more personal level which gave me a greater appreciation for their knowledge
and mechanical skills. I now see them as being far more approachable
for questions.
Many people there had attended previous colleges, this was my first. If you are
assembling a corvair engine or plan to consider one for your project then attending
at least one Corvair College should be on your list.
If anyone has particular question about my experience at this College, email me
and I will be happy to respond.
--------
Jon Coxwell
GN-1 Builder
Recycle and preserve the planet
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=343783#343783
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Wilson <jlwilsonnn(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cloudcars Prop Performance |
I believe that was in response to scimitar props in general.
A true scimitar prop does a lot of flexing and were used mainly on racers ba
ck in the day. Modern scimitars are a semi- scimitars and more lasting. But I
'm not sure if they are more lasting than say your standard Sensenich.
I have an email from cloud cars explaining this and I'll look it up and post
it later today.
Jeff Wilson
N899WT
St. Louis, MO
Sent from my iPhone
On Jun 22, 2011, at 8:28 AM, Michael Perez wrote:
> I seem to remember a post a while back about these props having a "short l
ife span". I don't remember any details other then the person was looking in
to buying a new prop and said one draw back tothe Cloudcarse props was a sho
rt life span. Anyone have details on this?
>
> Michael Perez
> Karetaker Aero
> www.karetakeraero.com
>
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Cloudcars Prop Performance |
| From: | "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com> |
Could someone explain to me the definition of "rather short life span"? Coming
back into airplane flying that involves a propeller (it has been over 20 years
since I consistently flew an aircraft with a propeller, and that one was metal),
I have no real frame of reference. This discussion of the Scimitar prop has
got me to thinkin' (a dangerous thing, to be sure).
With a wooden prop, what are the indications that you are approaching the end of
the prop's life span? I can imagine that there are preflight indications. Do
indicators manifest themselves in flight? I certainly would hate to find out
what it looks like AFTER the prop has exceeded its life span! What about metal
or composite props? Does anyone fly composite or metal props on a Pietenpol?
Thanks in advance for the information.
--------
Semper Fi,
Terry
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=343791#343791
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Corvair College #20 |
| From: | "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com> |
Jon,
Thanks for the really in depth description.
Would it be advisable for someone without a Corvair to attend and just watch? Is
an extra set of hands welcome if all I wanted to do was help someone with their
project and learn a little at the same time?
Thanks again.
--------
Semper Fi,
Terry
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=343792#343792
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG FORSCOM" <steven.d.dortch(at)us.army.mil> |
| Subject: | Re: Gasoline questions |
NW Oklahoma all the stations have signs that say 100% Gasoline No ethanol. San
Antonio, Texas you can't find ethanol free gas.
----- Original Message -----
From: Jerry Dotson <jdotson(at)centurylink.net>
Date: Wednesday, June 22, 2011 10:11
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Gasoline questions
>
> My brother has a Skyranger with 240 hours on the Rotax 912ULS running 93 octane
with 10% ethanol with no problems to date. We can't find any gas
> without ethanol in it. The only difference we can tell between the
> non-ethanol and the 10% ethanol is it takes a little more per hour
> but not much more. He has been running the 10% ethanol since 2007.
>
> --------
> Jerry Dotson
> 59 Daniel Johnson Rd
> Baker, FL 32531
>
> Started building NX510JD July, 2009
> wing, tailfeathers done, fuselage rolling
> using Lycoming O-235
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=343773#343773
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dick N" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
Is anybody going up to OSH after Brodhead. It would be nice to a group
fly thing like 2 years ago. I am going up on
Sun am. if weather is good.
Dick N.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Osh - Brodhead |
| From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
My family and I are going up, but we'll have to wave to you from Hwy 151. :-(
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=343804#343804
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Osh - Brodhead |
I am, but my Piet is still under construction, so it'll be in the yellow pl
astic plane.
But will still be drooling over the "real" planes
Cheers
Jon Apfelbaum
(Glastar N767JA)
-----Original Message-----
From: Dick N <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Sent: Wed, Jun 22, 2011 10:10 am
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Osh - Brodhead
Is anybody going up to OSH after Brodhead. It would be nice to a group fly
thing like 2 years ago. I am going up on
Sun am. if weather is good.
Dick N.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
Me too. And I think Matt Paxton will bring his new ship there after
Brodhead. Randy Bush was talking about going as well, if we could get a
group going.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dick N
Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2011 4:07 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Osh - Brodhead
Is anybody going up to OSH after Brodhead. It would be nice to a group fly
thing like 2 years ago. I am going up on
Sun am. if weather is good.
Dick N.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jeff wilson <jlwilsonnn(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Cloud Car Scimitars |
>From March of 2010
-
In reply to the comments about our propellers' lifespan.....
Before everyone goes into a panic, I'd like to clear up a possible misunder
standing!!!!
The Scimitars that we cut are NOT "true functioning" Scimitars. They are a
"profile
Scimitar" (basically like a club profile). All propeller blades will flex.
A true functioning Scimitar is designed to flex a lot more than a conventio
nal propeller, and along more of the blade span. On a true functioning Scim
itar the lams are vertical instead of horizontal, so as to amplify the wood
s flexing characteristics. This is not so with our Scimitars.
Our lams are a conventional horizontal sandwich or stack, just like Senseni
ch and others.
The airfoil is cut the same also. There is a slight flexing at the tip, whi
ch is common in all propellers, especially those with a blade sweep. I'm no
t sure how someone came up with 500 hours.....all woods have different char
acteristics and there is no way this could be applied in a concrete way. If
any of you guys have knowledge of bow making/archery, especially long bows
...this might help to explain the different characteristics of wood elastic
ity.
You won't find us on the internet, we don't have a website, or advertise an
y more.
All of our business is by referral and word of mouth.
If you have any questions or concerns, please contact me.
Jay Anderson
CLOUDCARS
cloudcars(at)verizon.net
325-356-2810
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Cloudcars Prop Performance |
| From: | Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com> |
The main issue with short life span....is overthinking. There is no issue
On Wed, Jun 22, 2011 at 1:12 PM, jarheadpilot82
wrote:
> jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com>
>
> Could someone explain to me the definition of "rather short life span"?
> Coming back into airplane flying that involves a propeller (it has been over
> 20 years since I consistently flew an aircraft with a propeller, and that
> one was metal), I have no real frame of reference. This discussion of the
> Scimitar prop has got me to thinkin' (a dangerous thing, to be sure).
>
> With a wooden prop, what are the indications that you are approaching the
> end of the prop's life span? I can imagine that there are preflight
> indications. Do indicators manifest themselves in flight? I certainly would
> hate to find out what it looks like AFTER the prop has exceeded its life
> span! What about metal or composite props? Does anyone fly composite or
> metal props on a Pietenpol?
>
> Thanks in advance for the information.
>
> --------
> Semper Fi,
>
> Terry
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=343791#343791
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Osh - Brodhead |
| From: | "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com> |
You guys are making me want to just burn all my vacation time and go to OSH too!
Hmmmm... decisions...decisions!
Don Emch
NX899DE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=343841#343841
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Osh - Brodhead |
| From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
Don Emch wrote:
> You guys are making me want to just burn all my vacation time and go to OSH too!
Hmmmm... decisions...decisions!
>
> Don Emch
> NX899DE
I'm burning most of mine... let's all go!
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=343844#343844
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "bender" <jfaith(at)solairusaviation.com> |
i've watched Dan's flying video 50 times i'm sure....i'm jealous so i set my engine
in place today after painting the intake and making a wedge for the carb
out of aluminum instead of cutting the intake itself.... makes it look closer
to done
jeff in stormy louisville
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=343850#343850
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/carb_135.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/engine_181.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | clipped wing Stinson takeoff (off topic, but educational) |
It's a 108-3=2C with an 6A4-165-B3 Franklin in it.
Go to http://tinyurl.com/3hx847q
A short=2C but instructional=2C video concerning planning your takeoff.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
Flying Squirrel N2069Z "Rocket"
Medford=2C OR (soon to be Eagle Point=2C Oregon)
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Corvair College #20 |
| From: | "coxwelljon" <coxwelljon(at)frontiernet.net> |
There were 60 people in attendance and only 20 engines. Many were only lookers.
If you wanted to team up with someone I am sure your help would be welcomed.
Get there early and look for someone who is disassembling an engine or has
lots of parts. They will be the ones that need the most help. Just ask if you
can help for the experience. If you could do that I think the experience would
be more beneficial. I am a hands on person and I retain more if I can actually
do some work.
One thing I failed to mention was that discussion of politics and religion were
off limits. I thought that was a real breath of fresh air.
--------
Jon Coxwell
GN-1 Builder
Recycle and preserve the planet
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=343858#343858
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Cardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Brodhead fuel status? |
What is the status of fuel availability at Brodhead this year?
Greg C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: engine mounted |
| From: | "aerocarjake" <flight.jake(at)gmail.com> |
Beautiful......!
--------
Jake Schultz - curator,
Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=343861#343861
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Clif Dawson" <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: clipped wing Stinson takeoff (off topic, but educational) |
I don't believe it! This is Raven Field, in the CFS ( Canada
Flight Suppliment) as Quamichan Lake. Field elevation
is only 130' and runway length is 1800'. This is
Southern Vancouver Island, BC. The owner is John Howroyd.
John's dad built Pietenpol CF-AOG in '32.
http://www.ourairports.com/airports/CML2/
http://www.flyronline.com/airport/cml2.html
It's a 108-3, with an 6A4-165-B3 Franklin in it.
Go to http://tinyurl.com/3hx847q
A short, but instructional, video concerning planning your takeoff..
Oscar Zuniga
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Gasoline questions |
| From: | "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org> |
Mine are a little different. They're internally mounted to prevent flutter at
the high speeds. Kind of the ping pong ball effect.
--------
Scott Liefeld
Flying N11MS since March 1972
Steel Tube
C-85-12
Wire Wheels
Brodhead in 1996
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=343874#343874
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Gasoline questions |
| From: | "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org> |
Amazing what one misspelled word will do to us. I think we are all a little sick.
Must go flying to cure it.
--------
Scott Liefeld
Flying N11MS since March 1972
Steel Tube
C-85-12
Wire Wheels
Brodhead in 1996
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=343878#343878
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: engine mounted |
| From: | "bender" <jfaith(at)solairusaviation.com> |
Its a Tillotson model X carb... an aftermarket A carb..
i have a Marvel atermarket carb too... they are both aluminum..or pot metal, a
lot lighter than the Zenith A or B
i figured i'd try all the carbs i had.. i have a Zenith on the AA truck that would
fly just fine too
Walt Bowe has a wedge in his too... i was looking at photos of his plane and picked
it out.. looks like he has a tillotson carb..or a marvel.. not sure
i know they are both popular for "drivers" not show cars
i set the engine up there thinking about weather or not to cut the crank and water
pump down.. it looks good so i'm leaving them stock..
i have a water pump housing painted ready for new parts... i have a local place
called the Old Car Parts House... the guy just deals in A and T parts.. its a
great resource... and the guy knows a lot
its easy to run to his place and pick up parts
jeff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=343893#343893
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Ethanol free gas station |
| From: | "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org> |
On a more serious note have a look at this link. It may be useful to some.
http://pure-gas.org/index.jsp
--------
Scott Liefeld
Flying N11MS since March 1972
Steel Tube
C-85-12
Wire Wheels
Brodhead in 1996
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=343907#343907
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Brodhead fuel status? |
| From: | "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca> |
Greg,
According to the BPA website, fuel (100LL and ethanol-free Auto fuel) will be available.
http://pietenpols.org/id12.html
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=343923#343923
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Corvair College #20 |
| From: | "dgaldrich" <dgaldrich(at)embarqmail.com> |
The dearth of discussion about politics and religion is one of the endearing things
about this board too.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=343938#343938
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Corvair College #20 |
| From: | "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com> |
Thanks, again, Jon for all of the insight.
--------
Semper Fi,
Terry
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=343939#343939
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Cardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Brodhead fuel status and fly-by patterns |
Good link, Bill.
And for anyone interested, attached are pdf's of the fly-by patterns.
Greg Cardinal
>
>
> Greg,
> According to the BPA website, fuel (100LL and ethanol-free Auto fuel) will
> be available.
>
> http://pietenpols.org/id12.html
>
> Bill C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Yocum <yocum137(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Brodhead fuel status and fly-by patterns |
Thanks Greg!
--
Dan Yocum
yocum137(at)gmail.com
"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
On Jun 24, 2011, at 7:09 AM, "Greg Cardinal" wrote:
> Good link, Bill.
>
> And for anyone interested, attached are pdf's of the fly-by patterns.
>
> Greg Cardinal
>
>
>>
>> Greg,
>> According to the BPA website, fuel (100LL and ethanol-free Auto fuel) will be
available.
>>
>> http://pietenpols.org/id12.html
>>
>> Bill C.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | wing spar dimensioms |
| From: | "Saver" <saverm(at)bellsouth.net> |
Can someone give me the spar dimension on the three piece wing.
Specifically width. Does 3/4" sound right? I'm on a trip and can't
Get to my drawings.
Scott
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=343983#343983
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: wing spar dimensioms |
| From: | Dan Yocum <yocum137(at)gmail.com> |
3/4" x 4 3/4 iirc.
--
Dan Yocum
yocum137(at)gmail.com
"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
On Jun 24, 2011, at 8:20 AM, "Saver" wrote:
>
> Can someone give me the spar dimension on the three piece wing.
> Specifically width. Does 3/4" sound right? I'm on a trip and can't
> Get to my drawings.
> Scott
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=343983#343983
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: wing spar dimensioms |
| From: | "Saver" <saverm(at)bellsouth.net> |
Thanks Dan. So far we can only locate the 3/4 dimension
For the center section spars. 1" for main wing spars.
Scott
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=344031#344031
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: a little Friday humor |
| From: | "echobravo4" <eab4(at)comcast.net> |
that has to be one my all time favorites!
--------
Earl Brown
I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I
intended to be.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=344052#344052
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Yocum <yocum137(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: wing spar dimensioms |
Bernard recommended routing out the 1" to 3/4" essentially creating an I-beam.
The Cub had a 3/4" spar, so that is probably a safe bet to go with.
--
Dan Yocum
yocum137(at)gmail.com
"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
On Jun 24, 2011, at 6:00 PM, "Saver" wrote:
>
> Thanks Dan. So far we can only locate the 3/4 dimension
> For the center section spars. 1" for main wing spars.
> Scott
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=344031#344031
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Corvair ignitions |
| From: | "skellytown flyer" <skellflyer1(at)yahoo.com> |
For you crank snappers out there. just wondering if some of you are running the
distributor with the electronic pickup on one side W/W sells now. I have been
having a big problem getting my 2 sets of points balanced to fire at the same
degree advance on mine. I sent it back to him and have one of the new style distributors
coming next week. but i am still running this Grand Rapids EIS in
the panel that DJ installed. initially it was giving fairly decent readings on
the one coil it is connected to but the last time or two I flew it after messing
with the gaps to get the timing closer it was way off. I plan on connecting
the electronic pickup to the EIS and maybe an electronic tach after getting
it in. leaving the other point side clean with nothing else on it but the coil,condenser
and ballast resistor.I'm just wondering if anybody else had any problems
installing this style ignition pickup and any solutions if you did. Raymond
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=344101#344101
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Osh - Brodhead |
| From: | "ldmill" <lorin.miller(at)emerson.com> |
Weather permitting - I'd also like to make my first flying trip to Osh this year.
Was going to fly to Brodhead anyway. Was hoping to see a thread like this pop
up.
Lorin Miller
--------
Lorin Miller
Waiex N81YX
GN-1 N30PP
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=344107#344107
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Building my first wing rib - the journey begins |
| From: | John Fay <jfay1950(at)gmail.com> |
Sorry this response is a little late, but I've been gone awhile.
One of the best articles about rib building is by Tony Bingelis in the
"Sportplane Builder" column in the February, 1994 issue of Sport Aviation.
It contains the illustration about possible ways to cut the rib pieces. It
contains a lot of info about rib building which is not in his main books. I
found it the most useful source when I was building my ribs.
The old SA articles are available to all EAA members at the Oshkosh 365
website.
John Fay
in Peoria
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Corvair ignitions |
Raymond,
You should post this on the Corvair list: corvaircraft(at)mylist.net.
Gary
BTW - DJ sends best wishes...
-----Original Message-----
From: skellytown flyer
Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2011 7:34 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Corvair ignitions
For you crank snappers out there. just wondering if some of you are running
the distributor with the electronic pickup on one side W/W sells now. I have
been having a big problem getting my 2 sets of points balanced to fire at
the same degree advance on mine. I sent it back to him and have one of the
new style distributors coming next week. but i am still running this Grand
Rapids EIS in the panel that DJ installed. initially it was giving fairly
decent readings on the one coil it is connected to but the last time or two
I flew it after messing with the gaps to get the timing closer it was way
off. I plan on connecting the electronic pickup to the EIS and maybe an
electronic tach after getting it in. leaving the other point side clean with
nothing else on it but the coil,condenser and ballast resistor.I'm just
wondering if anybody else had any problems installing this style ignition
pickup and any solutions if you did. Raymond
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=344101#344101
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Building my first wing rib - the journey begins |
| From: | "Piet2112" <curtdm(at)gmail.com> |
Here's a quick link to the article.
http://www.oshkosh365.org/saarchive/eaa_articles/1994_02_24.pdf
See y'all at Brodhead!
Curt Merdan
Flower Mound, TX
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=344123#344123
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Corvair ignitions |
| From: | "skellytown flyer" <skellflyer1(at)yahoo.com> |
I may. got an email from him this morning. sent a couple poor pictures I had. I
still don't have a good picture of it I am sure hoping this ridiculously hot
windy weather will ease up this summer so I can fly once I got the distributor
issue settled.it's supposed to be 105 again today. winds only about 20 now- 45
degrees to the runway but they are supposed to blow a lot more later on.guess
it's just as well I am not ready to fly anyway-I'd just be frustrated and wondering
whether to risk it or not.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=344124#344124
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Building my first wing rib - the journey begins |
| From: | "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com> |
john and Curt,
Thanks for the additional info. I did download the article to keep for future reference.
I really appreciate all of the support provided by this Forum.
See you in Brodhead!
--------
Semper Fi,
Terry
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=344129#344129
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Corvair ignitions |
Ramond, We are running the electronic/points distributer.- Ours is a wynn
e distributer, and the 2 diferent ignition systems are not timed dead on wi
th each other.- It is not much of a concern to me, the points are strictl
y for backup only.- It will run to full power on either system, the idle
speed is some what off between the 2 systems due to the timing being a-co
uple of -degrees different.-
-
Shad-
--- On Sun, 6/26/11, Gary Boothe wrote:
From: Gary Boothe <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair ignitions
Date: Sunday, June 26, 2011, 9:46 AM
Raymond,
You should post this on the Corvair list:- corvaircraft(at)mylist.net.
Gary
BTW - DJ sends best wishes...
-----Original Message----- From: skellytown flyer
Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2011 7:34 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Corvair ignitions
.com>
For you crank snappers out there. just wondering if some of you are running
the distributor with the electronic pickup on one side W/W sells now. I ha
ve been having a big problem getting my 2 sets of points balanced to fire a
t the same degree advance on mine. I sent it back to him and have one of th
e new style distributors coming next week. but i am still running this Gran
d Rapids EIS in the panel that DJ installed. initially it was giving fairly
decent readings on the one coil it is connected to but the last time or tw
o I flew it after messing with the gaps to get the timing closer it was way
off. I plan on connecting the electronic pickup to the EIS and maybe an el
ectronic tach after getting it in. leaving the other point side clean with
nothing else on it but the coil,condenser and ballast resistor.I'm just won
dering if anybody else had any problems installing this style ignition pick
up and any solutions if you did. Raymond
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=344101#344101
le, List Admin.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Corvair ignitions |
| From: | "bender" <jfaith(at)solairusaviation.com> |
i just added a set of points to a mallory model a distributor and noticed the slight
difference in timing and had the thought of one just being a backup so
it would be ok i'm sure..
dual points distributors are made that way on purpose.. to get more dwell when
running both sets to one coil
i planned on the more advanced set being the backup... making starting easier..
i set the gap slightly less on the backup points... to get the timing closer..
still in tolorance but not in the middle of the range
jeff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=344141#344141
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Lagowski Morrow" <jimdeb(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Corvair College #20 |
COOL-JIM
----- Original Message -----
From: "coxwelljon" <coxwelljon(at)frontiernet.net>
Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 12:20 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Corvair College #20
>
>
> There were 60 people in attendance and only 20 engines. Many were only
> lookers. If you wanted to team up with someone I am sure your help would
> be welcomed. Get there early and look for someone who is disassembling an
> engine or has lots of parts. They will be the ones that need the most
> help. Just ask if you can help for the experience. If you could do that
> I think the experience would be more beneficial. I am a hands on person
> and I retain more if I can actually do some work.
>
> One thing I failed to mention was that discussion of politics and religion
> were off limits. I thought that was a real breath of fresh air.
>
> --------
> Jon Coxwell
> GN-1 Builder
> Recycle and preserve the planet
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=343858#343858
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Corvair ignitions |
| From: | "skellytown flyer" <skellflyer1(at)yahoo.com> |
Well per W/W's instructions I messed with mine by shifting the mount plate to the
side some as it is loose enough on the screws it can be shifted some plus played
with the gap.not having his distributor machine or patience I even devised
a shadetree method of my own. I glued a couple small pieces of thin paper to
a rubber band and put them in the points and held slight tension on it and rotated
the shaft till they would release.got it to where they were close to the
same- but still one set the timing mark would hunt fairly bad. I wondered if
i had a bad cam lobe -could'nt find any real slop in the shaft. anyway I hope
for better luck now. I am not satisfied with either the Datcon tach or the EIS.
both were giving bad readings. again maybe bouncing points ? I contacted Mark
Langford and he sent me a link to his site telling how he put a 27K ohm resistor
in the circuit and it solved his problem.I do not have the manual for the
EIS- have to guess that he meant in the coil- pickup wire and try it I guess.
if I could find a decent electronic tach that worked properly I would soon remove
the EIS. not because the info isn't valuable. but I have a mechanical oil
gage and have satisfied my temps are good and not running any mixture control-
that is wired full rich on the old Strombergh I don't think it's likely to
go lean unless something breaks.and it just ain't natural in a Piet or wanna be
Piet panel.th temp hit 111 here as I was coming back from town a little while
ago. will likely be too hot to fly anyway today. may take a nap. Raymond
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=344143#344143
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KM Heide CPO/FAAOP <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com> |
Fellow Pieters:
-
I have a complete Corvair Engine removed from a working Corvair vehicle las
t year. It is everything according to WIlliam Wynne rebuild book. I am inte
rested in selling this motor for $600.00 to anyone on the list. Please cont
act me off list if interested. The motor is complete and needs to be tron d
own and rebuilt into an aircraft engine.
-
KMHeide
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> |
I have a question for the forum. Anyone who wants to please chime in.
I have 14 clevises (is that the correct plural?) to use at various
places in the control system. Problem: some of the clevises will have
a turnbuckle fork attach to it. The Clevis is 0.185 inch thick and the
turnbuckle fork slot is only 0.156 inch. Would it be OK with the
inspector if I ground down the clevis until the fork would go over it?
According to my handy dandy calculator I would have to grind off about
0.03 inch for the fork to go on the clevis. Comments? Chuck
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Corvair Engine |
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Cardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net> |
Chuck,
You shouldn't have to do any grinding of terminals to make them fit. It
sounds like you may be mismatching hardware.
Here are a couple of pdf's of cable terminal fittings that may help you
sort out what you need.
http://www.gen-aircraft-hardware.com/images/pdf/an115_ms20115.pdf
http://www.gen-aircraft-hardware.com/images/pdf/cable%20fittings.pdf
Greg Cardinal
----- Original Message -----
From: Charles Campbell
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2011 3:07 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Clevis
I have a question for the forum. Anyone who wants to please chime in.
I have 14 clevises (is that the correct plural?) to use at various
places in the control system. Problem: some of the clevises will have
a turnbuckle fork attach to it. The Clevis is 0.185 inch thick and the
turnbuckle fork slot is only 0.156 inch. Would it be OK with the
inspector if I ground down the clevis until the fork would go over it?
According to my handy dandy calculator I would have to grind off about
0.03 inch for the fork to go on the clevis. Comments? Chuck
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> |
Greg, I guess my original problem is that I didn't know that the data
like that you sent is even available. I ordered cable shackles from ACS
and all they listed was the AN# for 3/32 cable, use AN# thimble, and AN#
Clevis pin -- no other dimensions. Same for turnbuckle forks. Until I
spent my money and received the parts did I know that the two would not
fit together. Oh well, I guess if I don't get any other posts, I'll
just make do.
----- Original Message -----
From: Greg Cardinal
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 12:47 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Clevis
Chuck,
You shouldn't have to do any grinding of terminals to make them fit.
It sounds like you may be mismatching hardware.
Here are a couple of pdf's of cable terminal fittings that may help
you sort out what you need.
http://www.gen-aircraft-hardware.com/images/pdf/an115_ms20115.pdf
http://www.gen-aircraft-hardware.com/images/pdf/cable%20fittings.pdf
Greg Cardinal
----- Original Message -----
From: Charles Campbell
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2011 3:07 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Clevis
I have a question for the forum. Anyone who wants to please chime
in.
I have 14 clevises (is that the correct plural?) to use at various
places in the control system. Problem: some of the clevises will have
a turnbuckle fork attach to it. The Clevis is 0.185 inch thick and the
turnbuckle fork slot is only 0.156 inch. Would it be OK with the
inspector if I ground down the clevis until the fork would go over it?
According to my handy dandy calculator I would have to grind off about
0.03 inch for the fork to go on the clevis. Comments? Chuck
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
Maybe ACS messed up the order? It seems odd that if the parts are all for one size
cable, that there are fitting issues.
Michael Perez
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
--- On Mon, 6/27/11, Charles Campbell wrote:
> From: Charles Campbell <cncampbell(at)windstream.net>
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Clevis
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Monday, June 27, 2011, 8:26 AM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Greg, I guess my original
> problem is that I didn't
> know that thedata like that you sent is even
> available. I ordered
> cable shackles from ACS and all they listed was the AN# for
> 3/32 cable, use AN#
> thimble, and AN# Clevis pin -- no other dimensions.
> Same for turnbuckle
> forks. Until I spent my money and received the parts
> did I know that the
> two would not fit together. Oh well, I guess if I
> don't get any other
> posts, I'll just make do.
>
> ----- Original Message
> -----
> From:
> Greg
> Cardinal
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>
>
> Sent: Monday, June
> 27, 2011 12:47
> AM
> Subject: Re:
> Pietenpol-List: Clevis
>
>
> Chuck,
>
> You shouldn't have to do any
> grinding of terminals to
> make them fit. It sounds like you may be mismatching
> hardware.
> Hereare a couple of
> pdf's of cable terminal
> fittings that may help you sort out what you
> need.
>
> http://www.gen-aircraft-hardware.com/images/pdf/an115_ms20115.pdf
> http://www.gen-aircraft-hardware.com/images/pdf/cable%20fittings.pdf
>
> Greg Cardinal
>
> ----- Original Message
> -----
> From:
> Charles
> Campbell
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>
>
> Sent: Sunday, June
> 26, 2011 3:07
> PM
> Subject:
> Pietenpol-List: Clevis
>
>
> I have a question for
> the forum. Anyone
> who wants to please chime in.
>
> I have 14 clevises (is
> that the correct
> plural?) to use at various places in the control
> system.
> Problem: some of the clevises will have a
> turnbuckle fork attach to
> it. The Clevis is 0.185 inch thick and the
> turnbuckle fork slot is
> only 0.156 inch. Would it be OK with the
> inspector if I ground down
> the clevis until the fork would go over it?
> According to my handy
> dandy calculator I would have to grind off about 0.03
> inch for the fork to
> go on the clevis. Comments?
> Chuck
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
>
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mark lee <mlmarkelee7(at)gmail.com> |
It sounds like something is wrong with that order.I got the wrong type of
aluminum for a gyro plane mast from a reputable company .The stock I
received should not have been in the warehouse.These things happen.At the
very least I'd call them and speak to some one who is very familiar with the
hardware.Or find someone else like an A&P or someone from the EAA. AT the
very worst you may meet some nice people.I've worked on a lot of hang
gliders and few aircraft people are going to fault you for being very
cautious with cable and hardware.
On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 7:05 AM, Michael Perez wrote:
> speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
>
> Maybe ACS messed up the order? It seems odd that if the parts are all for
> one size cable, that there are fitting issues.
>
>
> Michael Perez
> Karetaker Aero
> www.karetakeraero.com
>
>
> --- On Mon, 6/27/11, Charles Campbell wrote:
>
> > From: Charles Campbell <cncampbell(at)windstream.net>
> > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Clevis
> > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> > Date: Monday, June 27, 2011, 8:26 AM
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Greg, I guess my original
> > problem is that I didn't
> > know that the data like that you sent is even
> > available. I ordered
> > cable shackles from ACS and all they listed was the AN# for
> > 3/32 cable, use AN#
> > thimble, and AN# Clevis pin -- no other dimensions.
> > Same for turnbuckle
> > forks. Until I spent my money and received the parts
> > did I know that the
> > two would not fit together. Oh well, I guess if I
> > don't get any other
> > posts, I'll just make do.
> >
> > ----- Original Message
> > -----
> > From:
> > Greg
> > Cardinal
> > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> >
> >
> > Sent: Monday, June
> > 27, 2011 12:47
> > AM
> > Subject: Re:
> > Pietenpol-List: Clevis
> >
> >
> > Chuck,
> >
> > You shouldn't have to do any
> > grinding of terminals to
> > make them fit. It sounds like you may be mismatching
> > hardware.
> > Here are a couple of
> > pdf's of cable terminal
> > fittings that may help you sort out what you
> > need.
> >
> > http://www.gen-aircraft-hardware.com/images/pdf/an115_ms20115.pdf
> > http://www.gen-aircraft-hardware.com/images/pdf/cable%20fittings.pdf
> >
> > Greg Cardinal
> >
> > ----- Original Message
> > -----
> > From:
> > Charles
> > Campbell
> > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> >
> >
> > Sent: Sunday, June
> > 26, 2011 3:07
> > PM
> > Subject:
> > Pietenpol-List: Clevis
> >
> >
> > I have a question for
> > the forum. Anyone
> > who wants to please chime in.
> >
> > I have 14 clevises (is
> > that the correct
> > plural?) to use at various places in the control
> > system.
> > Problem: some of the clevises will have a
> > turnbuckle fork attach to
> > it. The Clevis is 0.185 inch thick and the
> > turnbuckle fork slot is
> > only 0.156 inch. Would it be OK with the
> > inspector if I ground down
> > the clevis until the fork would go over it?
> > According to my handy
> > dandy calculator I would have to grind off about 0.03
> > inch for the fork to
> > go on the clevis. Comments?
> > Chuck
> >
> > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
> >
> >
> > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Catdesigns" <Catdesigns(at)att.net> |
Charles
What exactly are you trying to do? Which part of the controls are you trying to
hook up? How about a diagram of what youre trying to accomplish? Please dont
just make do. Something you are trying to do just doesnt sound correct.
To me it sounds like your trying to connect two forked ends together which you
shouldnt do. Fork ends (turnbuckle end or shackle) should go over a solid tab.
If youre trying to attach a cable to a turnbuckle, use turnbuckle end fittings
for connecting a cable directly to the turnbuckle. If you must connect two fork
ends together, make a short connector out of metal with holes in both ends.
Chris
--------
Chris
Sacramento, CA
WestCoastPiet.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=344272#344272
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com> |
By any chance do you have the Bingelis books....maybe a copy of A/C 43.13?
You can even download AC 43.13 for free:
http://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/advisory_circulars/index.cfm/go/document.information/documentid/99861
Although the print version is eminently more useful. Better to acquire the
knowledge to know how to do things the right way instead of just "making do"
with the wrong parts.
Ryan
On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 7:26 AM, Charles Campbell wrote:
> **
> Greg, I guess my original problem is that I didn't know that the data like
> that you sent is even available. I ordered cable shackles from ACS and all
> they listed was the AN# for 3/32 cable, use AN# thimble, and AN# Clevis pin
> -- no other dimensions. Same for turnbuckle forks. Until I spent my money
> and received the parts did I know that the two would not fit together. Oh
> well, I guess if I don't get any other posts, I'll just make do.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Greg Cardinal
> *To:* pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> *Sent:* Monday, June 27, 2011 12:47 AM
> *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: Clevis
>
> Chuck,
>
> You shouldn't have to do any grinding of terminals to make them fit. It
> sounds like you may be mismatching hardware.
> Here are a couple of pdf's of cable terminal fittings that may help you
> sort out what you need.
>
> http://www.gen-aircraft-hardware.com/images/pdf/an115_ms20115.pdf
> http://www.gen-aircraft-hardware.com/images/pdf/cable%20fittings.pdf
>
> Greg Cardinal
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Charles Campbell
> *To:* pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> *Sent:* Sunday, June 26, 2011 3:07 PM
> *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: Clevis
>
> I have a question for the forum. Anyone who wants to please chime in.
>
> I have 14 clevises (is that the correct plural?) to use at various places
> in the control system. Problem: some of the clevises will have a
> turnbuckle fork attach to it. The Clevis is 0.185 inch thick and the
> turnbuckle fork slot is only 0.156 inch. Would it be OK with the inspector
> if I ground down the clevis until the fork would go over it? According to
> my handy dandy calculator I would have to grind off about 0.03 inch for the
> fork to go on the clevis. Comments? Chuck
>
> *
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c*
>
> *
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c*
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> |
Chris,
My scanner is acting up so I can't send you a drawing of what I'm trying to
do. If you have a set of Aircamper plans look on the one showing the
cockpit controls. There is a clevis at each side of the rear control stick
with a cable attached to each -- that one I can do. Now look at the
elevator control bellcrank. There are four clevises attached to the
bellcrank. The drawing shows the cables connecting directly to the clevises
but there must be a turnbuckle in each cable. The fork end of the
turnbuckle would have to attach to the clevis, top and bottom. On my
turnbuckle fork the space between the 'tines' is only 0.150 inch. The
diameter of the clevis is 0.185 inch. Thus, I would have to grind down the
.185 dimension to less than 0.15 inch for the two to work together. Capish?
Hope I am clearer than mud! Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: "Catdesigns" <Catdesigns(at)att.net>
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 2:55 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Clevis
>
> Charles
>
> What exactly are you trying to do? Which part of the controls are you
> trying to hook up? How about a diagram of what you?Tre trying to
> accomplish? Please don?Tt just make do. Something you are trying to do
> just doesn?Tt sound correct.
>
> To me it sounds like your trying to connect two forked ends together which
> you shouldn?Tt do. Fork ends (turnbuckle end or shackle) should go over a
> solid tab. If you?Tre trying to attach a cable to a turnbuckle, use
> turnbuckle end fittings for connecting a cable directly to the turnbuckle.
> If you must connect two fork ends together, make a short connector out of
> metal with holes in both ends.
>
>
> Chris
>
> --------
> Chris
> Sacramento, CA
> WestCoastPiet.com
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=344272#344272
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> |
The link sent me to 43.13 1B in which I could not find anything about
clevises and turnbuckles.
----- Original Message -----
From: Ryan Mueller
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 3:36 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Clevis
By any chance do you have the Bingelis books....maybe a copy of A/C
43.13? You can even download AC 43.13 for free:
http://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/advisory_circulars/index.cfm/go/d
ocument.information/documentid/99861
Although the print version is eminently more useful. Better to acquire
the knowledge to know how to do things the right way instead of just
"making do" with the wrong parts.
Ryan
On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 7:26 AM, Charles Campbell
wrote:
Greg, I guess my original problem is that I didn't know that the
data like that you sent is even available. I ordered cable shackles
from ACS and all they listed was the AN# for 3/32 cable, use AN#
thimble, and AN# Clevis pin -- no other dimensions. Same for turnbuckle
forks. Until I spent my money and received the parts did I know that
the two would not fit together. Oh well, I guess if I don't get any
other posts, I'll just make do.
----- Original Message -----
From: Greg Cardinal
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 12:47 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Clevis
Chuck,
You shouldn't have to do any grinding of terminals to make them
fit. It sounds like you may be mismatching hardware.
Here are a couple of pdf's of cable terminal fittings that may
help you sort out what you need.
http://www.gen-aircraft-hardware.com/images/pdf/an115_ms20115.pdf
http://www.gen-aircraft-hardware.com/images/pdf/cable%20fittings.pdf
Greg Cardinal
----- Original Message -----
From: Charles Campbell
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2011 3:07 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Clevis
I have a question for the forum. Anyone who wants to please
chime in.
I have 14 clevises (is that the correct plural?) to use at
various places in the control system. Problem: some of the clevises
will have a turnbuckle fork attach to it. The Clevis is 0.185 inch
thick and the turnbuckle fork slot is only 0.156 inch. Would it be OK
with the inspector if I ground down the clevis until the fork would go
over it? According to my handy dandy calculator I would have to grind
off about 0.03 inch for the fork to go on the clevis. Comments? Chuck
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "kevinpurtee" <kevin.purtee(at)us.army.mil> |
Chuck - You can put extension tabs on the elevator bellcrank holes. Bend them
out slightly and everything will clear just fine.
Kevin
--------
Kevin "Axel" Purtee
NX899KP
Austin/Georgetown, TX
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=344282#344282
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> |
By 'making do' I meant that I won't use the clevises that I have --
I'll make up something else.
----- Original Message -----
From: Ryan Mueller
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 3:36 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Clevis
By any chance do you have the Bingelis books....maybe a copy of A/C
43.13? You can even download AC 43.13 for free:
http://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/advisory_circulars/index.cfm/go/d
ocument.information/documentid/99861
Although the print version is eminently more useful. Better to acquire
the knowledge to know how to do things the right way instead of just
"making do" with the wrong parts.
Ryan
On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 7:26 AM, Charles Campbell
wrote:
Greg, I guess my original problem is that I didn't know that the
data like that you sent is even available. I ordered cable shackles
from ACS and all they listed was the AN# for 3/32 cable, use AN#
thimble, and AN# Clevis pin -- no other dimensions. Same for turnbuckle
forks. Until I spent my money and received the parts did I know that
the two would not fit together. Oh well, I guess if I don't get any
other posts, I'll just make do.
----- Original Message -----
From: Greg Cardinal
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 12:47 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Clevis
Chuck,
You shouldn't have to do any grinding of terminals to make them
fit. It sounds like you may be mismatching hardware.
Here are a couple of pdf's of cable terminal fittings that may
help you sort out what you need.
http://www.gen-aircraft-hardware.com/images/pdf/an115_ms20115.pdf
http://www.gen-aircraft-hardware.com/images/pdf/cable%20fittings.pdf
Greg Cardinal
----- Original Message -----
From: Charles Campbell
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2011 3:07 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Clevis
I have a question for the forum. Anyone who wants to please
chime in.
I have 14 clevises (is that the correct plural?) to use at
various places in the control system. Problem: some of the clevises
will have a turnbuckle fork attach to it. The Clevis is 0.185 inch
thick and the turnbuckle fork slot is only 0.156 inch. Would it be OK
with the inspector if I ground down the clevis until the fork would go
over it? According to my handy dandy calculator I would have to grind
off about 0.03 inch for the fork to go on the clevis. Comments? Chuck
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
Chuck,
Here's a photo showing how I handled this area (for purposes of this
discussion, ignore the spring driven trim system):
If you look closely you can see that where the turnbuckles attach I made
a
pair of joggled straps of .062=94 4130 which fit into the fork end of
the
turnbuckles and fit around the bellcrank. You=92re right, the plans
don=92t
mention this, but it has to be done somehow. This is one way to do it.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP =93Icarus Plummet=94
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charles
Campbell
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 4:03 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Clevis
Chris,
My scanner is acting up so I can't send you a drawing of what I'm trying
to
do. If you have a set of Aircamper plans look on the one showing the
cockpit controls. There is a clevis at each side of the rear control
stick
with a cable attached to each -- that one I can do. Now look at the
elevator control bellcrank. There are four clevises attached to the
bellcrank. The drawing shows the cables connecting directly to the
clevises
but there must be a turnbuckle in each cable. The fork end of the
turnbuckle would have to attach to the clevis, top and bottom. On my
turnbuckle fork the space between the 'tines' is only 0.150 inch. The
diameter of the clevis is 0.185 inch. Thus, I would have to grind down
the
.185 dimension to less than 0.15 inch for the two to work together.
Capish?
Hope I am clearer than mud! Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: "Catdesigns" <Catdesigns(at)att.net>
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 2:55 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Clevis
>
> Charles
>
> What exactly are you trying to do? Which part of the controls are you
> trying to hook up? How about a diagram of what you?Tre trying to
> accomplish? Please don?Tt just make do. Something you are trying to
do
> just doesn?Tt sound correct.
>
> To me it sounds like your trying to connect two forked ends together
which
> you shouldn?Tt do. Fork ends (turnbuckle end or shackle) should go
over a
> solid tab. If you?Tre trying to attach a cable to a turnbuckle, use
> turnbuckle end fittings for connecting a cable directly to the
turnbuckle.
> If you must connect two fork ends together, make a short connector out
of
> metal with holes in both ends.
>
>
>
> Chris
>
> --------
> Chris
> Sacramento, CA
> WestCoastPiet.com
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=344272#344272
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Boyer <boyerjrb(at)comcast.net> |
Chuck where the two elevator cables attach to the belcrank use a large cable shackle.
Two thimbles, AN100-4 will fit over a large shackle. When I asked about
making up cables a week or so ago someone sent me a picture of exactly that.
I made up my tail brace cables using four larger cable shackles; one for the left
hand upper brace cables, one for the right hand upper brace cables and the
same for the bottom four brace cables. Eight cables come together at four cable
shackles.
I am going to do the same thing for the elevator cables where they meet at the
belcrank.
Cheers,
Jim B.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> |
Jack, I notice you do not have turnbuckles on the 'elevator' side of the
bellcrank. Are your turnbuckles back at the elevator horns?
----- Original Message -----
From: Jack Phillips
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 4:27 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Clevis
Chuck,
Here's a photo showing how I handled this area (for purposes of this
discussion, ignore the spring driven trim system):
If you look closely you can see that where the turnbuckles attach I
made a pair of joggled straps of .062" 4130 which fit into the fork end
of the turnbuckles and fit around the bellcrank. You're right, the
plans don't mention this, but it has to be done somehow. This is one
way to do it.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charles
Campbell
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 4:03 PM
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Clevis
Chris,
My scanner is acting up so I can't send you a drawing of what I'm
trying to
do. If you have a set of Aircamper plans look on the one showing the
cockpit controls. There is a clevis at each side of the rear control
stick
with a cable attached to each -- that one I can do. Now look at the
elevator control bellcrank. There are four clevises attached to the
bellcrank. The drawing shows the cables connecting directly to the
clevises
but there must be a turnbuckle in each cable. The fork end of the
turnbuckle would have to attach to the clevis, top and bottom. On my
turnbuckle fork the space between the 'tines' is only 0.150 inch. The
diameter of the clevis is 0.185 inch. Thus, I would have to grind
down the
.185 dimension to less than 0.15 inch for the two to work together.
Capish?
Hope I am clearer than mud! Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: "Catdesigns" <Catdesigns(at)att.net>
To:
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 2:55 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Clevis
>
> Charles
>
> What exactly are you trying to do? Which part of the controls are
you
> trying to hook up? How about a diagram of what you?Tre trying to
> accomplish? Please don?Tt just make do. Something you are trying
to do
> just doesn?Tt sound correct.
>
> To me it sounds like your trying to connect two forked ends together
which
> you shouldn?Tt do. Fork ends (turnbuckle end or shackle) should
go over a
> solid tab. If you?Tre trying to attach a cable to a turnbuckle,
use
> turnbuckle end fittings for connecting a cable directly to the
turnbuckle.
> If you must connect two fork ends together, make a short connector
out of
> metal with holes in both ends.
>
>
>
> Chris
>
> --------
> Chris
> Sacramento, CA
> WestCoastPiet.com
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=344272#344272
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
Yes. Easier to adjust them there.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP =93Icarus Plummet=94
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charles
Campbell
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 6:34 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Clevis
Jack, I notice you do not have turnbuckles on the 'elevator' side of the
bellcrank. Are your turnbuckles back at the elevator horns?
----- Original Message -----
From: Jack <mailto:pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> Phillips
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 4:27 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Clevis
Chuck,
Here's a photo showing how I handled this area (for purposes of this
discussion, ignore the spring driven trim system):
If you look closely you can see that where the turnbuckles attach I made
a
pair of joggled straps of .062=94 4130 which fit into the fork end of
the
turnbuckles and fit around the bellcrank. You=92re right, the plans
don=92t
mention this, but it has to be done somehow. This is one way to do it.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP =93Icarus Plummet=94
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charles
Campbell
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 4:03 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Clevis
Chris,
My scanner is acting up so I can't send you a drawing of what I'm trying
to
do. If you have a set of Aircamper plans look on the one showing the
cockpit controls. There is a clevis at each side of the rear control
stick
with a cable attached to each -- that one I can do. Now look at the
elevator control bellcrank. There are four clevises attached to the
bellcrank. The drawing shows the cables connecting directly to the
clevises
but there must be a turnbuckle in each cable. The fork end of the
turnbuckle would have to attach to the clevis, top and bottom. On my
turnbuckle fork the space between the 'tines' is only 0.150 inch. The
diameter of the clevis is 0.185 inch. Thus, I would have to grind down
the
.185 dimension to less than 0.15 inch for the two to work together.
Capish?
Hope I am clearer than mud! Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: "Catdesigns" <Catdesigns(at)att.net>
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 2:55 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Clevis
>
> Charles
>
> What exactly are you trying to do? Which part of the controls are you
> trying to hook up? How about a diagram of what you?Tre trying to
> accomplish? Please don?Tt just make do. Something you are trying to
do
> just doesn?Tt sound correct.
>
> To me it sounds like your trying to connect two forked ends together
which
> you shouldn?Tt do. Fork ends (turnbuckle end or shackle) should go
over a
> solid tab. If you?Tre trying to attach a cable to a turnbuckle, use
> turnbuckle end fittings for connecting a cable directly to the
turnbuckle.
> If you must connect two fork ends together, make a short connector out
of
> metal with holes in both ends.
>
>
>
> Chris
>
> --------
> Chris
> Sacramento, CA
> WestCoastPiet.com
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=344272#344272
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TOM MICHELLE BRANT <tmbrant(at)msn.com> |
looks like a short wheel base corvair.
Date: Sun=2C 26 Jun 2011 12:14:25 -0700
From: kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com
Subject: Fw: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Engine
Fellow Pieters:
I have a complete Corvair Engine removed from a working Corvair vehicle las
t year. It is everything according to WIlliam Wynne rebuild book. I am inte
rested in selling this motor for $600.00 to anyone on the list. Please cont
act me off list if interested. The motor is complete and needs to be tron d
own and rebuilt into an aircraft engine.
KMHeide
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Corvair Engine |
I thought that, too.
----- Original Message -----
From: TOM MICHELLE BRANT
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 8:23 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Engine
looks like a short wheel base corvair.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2011 12:14:25 -0700
From: kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com
Subject: Fw: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Engine
To: Pietenpol-List(at)matronics.com
Fellow Pieters:
I have a complete Corvair Engine removed from a working Corvair
vehicle last year. It is everything according to WIlliam Wynne rebuild
book. I am interested in selling this motor for $600.00 to anyone on the
list. Please contact me off list if interested. The motor is complete
and needs to be tron down and rebuilt into an aircraft engine.
KMHeide
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Stab Leading Edge |
| From: | "echobravo4" <eab4(at)comcast.net> |
Got the horizontal stab leading edge glued on and mostly sanded today-
will match up the elevator ends and finish it up this week. Vertical/rudder
are done, will be starting on the fuse soon! :D
--------
Earl Brown
I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I
intended to be.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=344316#344316
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc_0001_167.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc_0003_152.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc_0007_138.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Stab Leading Edge |
| From: | "bender" <jfaith(at)solairusaviation.com> |
looks nice... pretty work
jeff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=344320#344320
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Stab Leading Edge |
The fuselage is the most fun build of the entire project! Interesting how you made
the leading edge corners with the cut curves.
Michael Perez
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
--- On Mon, 6/27/11, bender wrote:
> From: bender <jfaith(at)solairusaviation.com>
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Stab Leading Edge
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Monday, June 27, 2011, 9:30 PM
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted
> by: "bender"
>
> looks nice... pretty work
>
> jeff
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=344320#344320
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Email Forum -
> FAQ,
> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
> List Contribution Web Site -
> -Matt
> Dralle, List Admin.
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Clif Dawson" <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca> |
Just to throw a monkey wrench in it here's my
solution at the bellcrank. :-)
Clif
Now look at the
> elevator control bellcrank. There are four clevises attached to the
> bellcrank. The drawing shows the cables connecting directly to the
> clevises but there must be a turnbuckle in each cable. The fork end of
> the turnbuckle would have to attach to the clevis, top and bottom. > Hope
> I am clearer than mud! Chuck
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Stab Leading Edge |
| From: | "echobravo4" <eab4(at)comcast.net> |
ok, yes, it was an after thought! the corners had already been cut when i
decided to add the other pieces!
--------
Earl Brown
I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I
intended to be.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=344361#344361
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Gusset Dimension |
| From: | "Piet2112" <curtdm(at)gmail.com> |
I've been searching the archives to find the dimensions of the aft fuselage gusset
without any luck. Am I missing something in the plans?
Curt Merdan
Flower Mound, TX
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=344367#344367
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/aft_fuselage_gusset_756.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Gusset Dimension |
I measured the 18-inch dimension from the plans as 1.5 inches. Top dim of
gusset = .25 and bottom = .5. 18/1.5 = top/.25 = 3 inches. Bottom is twice
that or 6 inches.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Piet2112" <curtdm(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 8:12 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Gusset Dimension
>
> I've been searching the archives to find the dimensions of the aft
> fuselage gusset without any luck. Am I missing something in the plans?
>
> Curt Merdan
> Flower Mound, TX
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=344367#344367
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/aft_fuselage_gusset_756.jpg
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: wing spar dimensioms |
| From: | Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com> |
Forgot to pull out the plans when I got back in to town this weekend....
On the 3-piece wing drawing, top left, there is a notation stating "CENTER
SECTION SPAR 3/4" SPRUCE". Look directly over to the top right and you will
see a notation stating "WING PANEL SPAR 3/4" SPRUCE".
Ryan
On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 6:00 PM, Saver wrote:
>
> Thanks Dan. So far we can only locate the 3/4 dimension
> For the center section spars. 1" for main wing spars.
> Scott
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=344031#344031
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Gusset Dimension |
| From: | "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca> |
No Curt, the dimensions are not in the plans for that gusset. I don't recall any
previous discussion about it, though.
You can just scale the plans (which I think is what Chuck was saying). It's not
that fussy.
I used 7" for the bottom dimension - matching the gusset on the bottom (see attached
photo), and the top was about 4 inches or so.
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=344383#344383
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/20100524_002_230.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com> |
For those that have not seen this Pietenpol Fly-in information page...
http://www.eaa431.org/?page_id 1
The folks in EAA 431 sure are proactive!
Don Emch
NX899DE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=344391#344391
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com> |
Don, are you flying to Brodhead this year?- Dad and I are planning on lea
ving here thursday morning, and hopefully getting to brodhead around 5-6 pm
weather permitting.- If we are able we might even try wednesday morning.
- I will be heading home around 8-9 am sunday, to hopefully be home befor
e dark.
-
Shad
--- On Tue, 6/28/11, Don Emch wrote:
From: Don Emch <EmchAir(at)aol.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead
Date: Tuesday, June 28, 2011, 4:21 PM
For those that have not seen this Pietenpol Fly-in information page...
http://www.eaa431.org/?page_id 1
The folks in EAA 431 sure are proactive!
Don Emch
NX899DE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=344391#344391
le, List Admin.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gboothe5" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | I love my job....sometimes |
List,
Normally my company does not send me around the country, but I do go on
occasion. Last time they sent me to East Texas, I ended up buying a lot on
an airstrip, thanks to Piet Builder, Robert Caldwell!
This time I went to Indiana. After putting out the Word that I was looking
for local Pietenpolers, I got a few responses, and chose the closest one to
the town where I was working. It was about an hour's drive to Elizabethtown,
very near Columbus, Indiana. After GPS'ing my way down the country roads, I
turned into a driveway, up a hill, and one glance thru the open barn doors
told me I was at the right address.
There sat Larry Morlock's almost done Piet!
Larry Morlock 1.jpg Larry Morlock 4.jpg
Besides the interesting fact that Larry's Piet now sports Douwe's old 'A'
engine.
Larry Morlock 2.jpg
It also has a somewhat interesting history: Larry bought it as a project in
'92, although certain aspects of the plane led him to believe that it
actually had some air time. It's an earlier version, with external aileron
cables, but the former owner had died in an auto accident, and no one seemed
to know anything about the plane. We can give Larry a little slack for
taking so long to get to this point, as he also owns a V-duster, and a
Bonanza. He has been to Brodhead, and many of you have probably met him, and
may know that he is very proud of having retired from Cummins Diesel, and he
is equally proud of the philanthropic benefit that Cummins has had to his
hometown, Columbus, Ind. Although he did not show me any airstrip lots for
sale, he did show me the oldest ice cream parlor in Columbus, close to 100
yrs old!
Larry Morlock 10.jpg Larry Morlock 6.jpg
Larry's last words, as we exited the barn, were, "You didn't Markle
anything, did you?" I explained that, if I had, and admitted it, it wouldn't
be Markle-ing.
Gary
Cool, Ca.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: I love my job....sometimes |
Wow, neat trip Gary! Isn't visiting other Piet builders the most fun!? And what
great people.
The thought of so many Piets being completed and flying in the next few years (some
sooner!) is really encouraging....
jm.....
-----Original Message-----
From: Gboothe5
Sent: Jun 28, 2011 9:57 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: I love my job....sometimes
List,
Normally my company does not send me around the country, but
I do go on occasion. Last time they sent me to East Texas, I ended up buying a
lot on an airstrip, thanks to Piet Builder, Robert Caldwell!
This time I went to Indiana. After putting out the Word that
I was looking for local Pietenpolers, I got a few responses, and chose the
closest one to the town where I was working. It was about an hours drive
to Elizabethtown, very near Columbus, Indiana. After GPSing my way down
the country roads, I turned into a driveway, up a hill, and one glance thru the
open barn doors told me I was at the right address.
There sat Larry Morlocks almost done Piet!
Besides the interesting fact that Larrys Piet now
sports Douwes old A engine
It also has a somewhat interesting history: Larry
bought it as a project in 92, although certain aspects of the plane led
him to believe that it actually had some air time. Its an earlier
version, with external aileron cables, but the former owner had died in an auto
accident, and no one seemed to know anything about the plane. We can give Larry
a little slack for taking so long to get to this point, as he also owns a
V-duster, and a Bonanza. He has been to Brodhead, and many of you have probably
met him, and may know that he is very proud of having retired from Cummins
Diesel, and he is equally proud of the philanthropic benefit that Cummins has
had to his hometown, Columbus, Ind. Although he did not show me any airstrip
lots for sale, he did show me the oldest ice cream parlor in Columbus, close to
100 yrs old!
Larrys last words, as we exited the barn, were, You
didnt Markle anything, did you? I explained that, if I had, and
admitted it, it wouldnt be Markle-ing
Gary
Cool, Ca.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com> |
Hey Shad,
I am planning on flying up. I was thinking about joining the flying circus for
a few days before, but now I'm not completely sure what I'll be doing. If I
don't, I want to try to head out on Wednesday morning. If not, no later than
than Thursday morning. Frank is planning to go too. He hasn't finalized his
plans yet. I may try to hang with him, even though the Rudolph Piet is quite
a bit slower. It sounds like we might be able to catch up to each other at some
point though. I believe Jack P. will be heading up through our way around
that same time too. Right Jack? In the next week or so I think I'll have better
plans made. I do have a bit of a dilemma, the Chief sure would make for a
comfortable ride to Brodhead!
Don Emch
NX899DE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=344424#344424
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Piet Items available |
| From: | "Pieti Lowell" <Lowellcfrank(at)yahoo.com> |
I will have the following for Piet builders,
Maple forms to make fuel tank end plates
Ken Perkins, full swiveling tail wheel assembly.
Ford crank extension, to mount taper hub.with fitted prop nut.
Pietenpolie Girl T shirts
and more at Brodhead fly-in.
Pieti Lowell
Do-not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=344429#344429
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "TOM STINEMETZE" <TOMS(at)mcpcity.com> |
| Subject: | Re: I love my job....sometimes |
Nice looking Piet Larry, but did you even consider putting a Cummins
diesel on the nose? You know how we all like to brag that the Pietenpol
has flown with more different engines than any other airplane - EVER.
Tom Stinemetze
N328X
>>> "Gboothe5" 6/28/2011 8:57 PM >>>
Besides the interesting fact that Larrys Piet now sports Douwes old
A engine
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com> |
I have to agree with the comfort issue Don, 7-10 hrs in 1 day is a real but
t, and back buster for me, not to mention the deafness that follows from ru
nning short stacks on a crank snapper.- But when you get there it is all
worth it, especially sat evening when there are 10 or more pietenpols buzzi
ng around.- To Jack P., what route do you usually take? If you don't mind
flying beside......hu hummmmm... behind... a yankee corvair we could tromp
along accross Indiana to Brodhead togeather.- # weeks and counting down
by the day.
-
Shad
Hey Shad,
I am planning on flying up.- I was thinking about joining the flying circ
us for a few days before, but now I'm not completely sure what I'll be doin
g.- If I don't, I want to try to head out on Wednesday morning.- If not
, no later than than Thursday morning.- Frank is planning to go too.- H
e hasn't finalized his plans yet.- I may try to hang with him, even thoug
h the Rudolph Piet is quite a bit slower.- It sounds like we might be abl
e to catch up to each other at some point though.- I believe Jack P. will
be heading up through our way around that same time too.- Right Jack?-
In the next week or so I think I'll have better plans made.- I do have a
bit of a dilemma, the Chief sure would make for a comfortable ride to Brod
head!
Don Emch
NX899DE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=344424#344424
le, List Admin.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "echobravo4" <eab4(at)comcast.net> |
> Only way to be sure is to come to Brodhead!
>
Don't rub it in!!
--------
Earl Brown
I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I
intended to be.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=344461#344461
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "l.morlock" <l.morlock(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: I love my job....sometimes |
Believe it or not, I have thought about putting a Cummins diesel in a
Pietenpol. They have a 3.3 liter engine, same displacement and similar
size as a Model A engine, 65 HP @ 2600 rpm, but very heavy (and
expensive). It probably could be done - but not by me!
Larry
----- Original Message -----
From: TOM STINEMETZE
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2011 9:17 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: I love my job....sometimes
Nice looking Piet Larry, but did you even consider putting a Cummins
diesel on the nose? You know how we all like to brag that the Pietenpol
has flown with more different engines than any other airplane - EVER.
Tom Stinemetze
N328X
>>> "Gboothe5" 6/28/2011 8:57 PM >>>
Besides the interesting fact that Larry=99s Piet now sports
Douwe=99s old =98A=99 engine
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "TOM STINEMETZE" <TOMS(at)mcpcity.com> |
| Subject: | Re: I love my job....sometimes |
Darn shame Larry. You could have called it a "Pietenbuilt" and had a real
collector's item there.
Tom S.
>>> "l.morlock" 6/30/2011 9:36 AM >>>
Believe it or not, I have thought about putting a Cummins diesel in a
Pietenpol. They have a 3.3 liter engine, same displacement and similar
size as a Model A engine, 65 HP @ 2600 rpm, but very heavy (and expensive).
It probably could be done - but not by me!
Larry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Yocum <yocum(at)fnal.gov> |
| Subject: | Bill Church photo featured on AVweb, today |
Great photo, Bill!
http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/potw/PictureOfTheWeek_204899-1.html
--
Dan Yocum
Fermilab 630.840.6509
yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Owen Davies <owen5819(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: I love my job....sometimes |
On 06/30/2011 10:36 AM, l.morlock wrote:
> Believe it or not, I have thought about putting a Cummins diesel in a
> Pietenpol. They have a 3.3 liter engine, same displacement and similar
> size as a Model A engine, 65 HP @ 2600 rpm, but very heavy (and
> expensive). It probably could be done - but not by me!
However, the late Bob Hoover (the VW expert and blogger, not the
aerobatics pilot) pointed out that GM has a 65-horse industrial engine
that is almost an exact match for the Model A, including weight.
Rebuilt, it's dirt cheap. Sorely tempting.
Owen
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JOSEPH SWITHIN <joeswithin(at)yahoo.com> |
If any of you are going to pass through the Morris, IL area let me know. If you
stop for a break It would be nice meet any of you. If you need assistance I will
do what I can to be of help. I have taken a couple of days off so Thursday I
will be free and Friday I will drive up to Brodhead in the a.m. If interested
contact me via joeswithin(at)yahoo.com and we can trade info. I'am just getting
started on my project so I do not have anything to show yet other than a keen
desire to build and learn form others.
Joe
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Bill Church photo featured on AVweb, today |
| From: | "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca> |
Thanks Dan.
It was only after Ryan suggested that I submit it, that I did submit it.
Funny thing is that AVweb didn't even notify me that the photo was selected. So,
thanks for the heads-up as well.
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=344508#344508
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Owen Davies <owen5819(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: I love my job....sometimes |
On 06/30/2011 12:18 PM, Dan Yocum wrote:
> 3.0l Vortec is my guess. It says it ships at 363lbs, but that could
> include the crate weight, too.
It has at least five years since Bob and I exchanged messages about
this, and I have lost a lot of material to a dying hard drive since
then. However, it was the 3.0l Vortec he had in mind. The horsepower,
weight, and I believe cruise RPM (not sure about that last) almost
exactly matched the Model A.
Weight assumed replacing the cast iron manifold with welded steel
tubing. (Pretty sure the shipping weight does include the crate.) The
details may have changed since they switched from a carb to fuel
injection, but it should still be pretty close.
What made this engine so attractive, of course, was the price for a
rebuilt engine. I remember (to the limited extent that verb describes
what I actually do!) it as being around $800. It's probably a bit more now.
Owen
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: I love my job....sometimes |
| From: | Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com> |
Unless the manifold and crate weigh 120 lbs combined, that engine is a fair
amount heavier than a Model A at ~244lbs..
On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 12:42 PM, Owen Davies wrote:
>
> On 06/30/2011 12:18 PM, Dan Yocum wrote:
>
> 3.0l Vortec is my guess. It says it ships at 363lbs, but that could
>> include the crate weight, too.
>>
>
> It has at least five years since Bob and I exchanged messages about this,
> and I have lost a lot of material to a dying hard drive since then. However,
> it was the 3.0l Vortec he had in mind. The horsepower, weight, and I believe
> cruise RPM (not sure about that last) almost exactly matched the Model A.
>
> Weight assumed replacing the cast iron manifold with welded steel tubing.
> (Pretty sure the shipping weight does include the crate.) The details may
> have changed since they switched from a carb to fuel injection, but it
> should still be pretty close.
>
> What made this engine so attractive, of course, was the price for a rebuilt
> engine. I remember (to the limited extent that verb describes what I
> actually do!) it as being around $800. It's probably a bit more now.
>
> Owen
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: passing through |
| From: | helspersew(at)aol.com |
Hi Joe,
You are already fitting nicely into this group. You know you are one of us
when you start quoting lines from The Great Waldo Pepper ;o)
........."passing through, just passing through"..............(Axel Olsson,
waving his arm, when Waldo showed up at "his" party)
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN
-----Original Message-----
From: JOSEPH SWITHIN <joeswithin(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Thu, Jun 30, 2011 11:35 am
Subject: Pietenpol-List: passing through
If any of you are going to pass through the Morris, IL area let me know. If
you stop for a break It would be nice meet any of you. If you need assista
nce I will do what I can to be of help. I have taken a couple of days off s
o Thursday I will be free and Friday I will drive up to Brodhead in the a.m
. If interested contact me via joeswithin(at)yahoo.com and we can trade info.
I'am just getting started on my project so I do not have anything to show y
et other than a keen desire to build and learn form others.
Joe
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________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Is White Pine Acceptable? |
| From: | Bryce Reid <1rciokc(at)gmail.com> |
I am new to this list and was wondering, is white pine acceptable to use in
building the Pietenpol?
Its my understanding that spruce is what most builders are using but I have
a good supply of close grained white pine.
Thanks
Bryce
Oklahoma City
Started on fuselage and wing ribs
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Yocum <yocum(at)fnal.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: Is White Pine Acceptable? |
The short answer is "maybe."
Per:
http://www.sportair.com/articles/Aircraft%20Wood%20-%20Part%20One.html
"The primary source of information for the builder may be obtained from
FAA Advisory Circular 43-13, government bulletin ANC-19, and from a copy
of Mil-Spec-6073. Advisory Circular 43-13 lists a number of different
types of wood that may be used in an aircraft structure..."
"As you can see from the chart White Pine is 85-96% as strong as spruce.
It is easy to work with and is somewhat available. A number of kit
manufacturers are using White Pine successfully within their designs. It
is low in hardness and shock resisting capability. It cannot be used as
a direct substitute for spruce without an increase in size to compensate
for the lesser strength."
Finding the minimum rings-per-inch (6) and maximum grain slope (1:15) at
your local big box home improvement store will be nearly impossible,
though some people have been able to do it given enough time and effort
to sift through the stacks and stacks of wood and then coming back the
following week and doing it again. And again. And again.
Dan
On 06/30/2011 01:49 PM, Bryce Reid wrote:
>
>
> I am new to this list and was wondering, is white pine acceptable to use
> in building the Pietenpol?
>
> Its my understanding that spruce is what most builders are using but I
> have a good supply of close grained white pine.
>
> Thanks
> Bryce
>
> Oklahoma City
> Started on fuselage and wing ribs
>
> *
>
>
> *
--
Dan Yocum
Fermilab 630.840.6509
yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Is White Pine Acceptable? |
| From: | gboothe5(at)comcast.net |
QnJ5Y2UsDQoNCkknbSAnaW4gdGhlIGZpZWxkJywgYW5kIHNob290aW5nIGZyb20gdGhlIGhpcCwg
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d2FzIHdvbmRlcmluZywgaXMgd2hpdGUgcGluZSBhY2NlcHRhYmxlIHRvIHVzZSBpbg0KYnVpbGRp
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IGNsb3NlIGdyYWluZWQgd2hpdGUgcGluZS4NCg0KVGhhbmtzDQpCcnljZQ0KDQpPa2xhaG9tYSBD
aXR5DQpTdGFydGVkIG9uIGZ1c2VsYWdlIGFuZCB3aW5nIHJpYnMNCg0K
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Theron <johnnysdrop(at)googlemail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Piet Items available |
>
> Pieti
I am coming to Brodhead (with my Lady) from England, will you have the
tailwheel assembly there as I am interested in purchasing it? What are
you asking for it?
John Theron
>
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet Items available
> From: "Pieti Lowell" <Lowellcfrank(at)yahoo.com>
>
>
> I will have the following for Piet builders,
> Maple forms to make fuel tank end plates
> Ken Perkins, full swiveling tail wheel assembly.
> Ford crank extension, to mount taper hub.with fitted prop nut.
> Pietenpolie Girl T shirts
> and more at Brodhead fly-in.
> Pieti Lowell
>
> Do-not archive
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=344429#344429
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Yocum <yocum(at)fnal.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: I love my job....sometimes |
There are 3 Vortec engines that might fit the bill. A 1.6l, 2.4l, and
the 3.0l.
I think the 2.4l is probably the one Bob was talking about. It comes in
at 247lbs and provides the most torque at 3200RPM and about 90hp.
http://industrial-irrigation.com/assets/files/REV_2011_2400_Industrial.pdf
The 1.6l comes in at 220lbs and provides the top torque at 3200RPM and 70hp:
http://www.bucksengines.com/Data/32.pdf
$800 for an overhaul does sound appealing.
Dan
On 06/30/2011 12:42 PM, Owen Davies wrote:
>
> On 06/30/2011 12:18 PM, Dan Yocum wrote:
>
>> 3.0l Vortec is my guess. It says it ships at 363lbs, but that could
>> include the crate weight, too.
>
> It has at least five years since Bob and I exchanged messages about
> this, and I have lost a lot of material to a dying hard drive since
> then. However, it was the 3.0l Vortec he had in mind. The horsepower,
> weight, and I believe cruise RPM (not sure about that last) almost
> exactly matched the Model A.
>
> Weight assumed replacing the cast iron manifold with welded steel
> tubing. (Pretty sure the shipping weight does include the crate.) The
> details may have changed since they switched from a carb to fuel
> injection, but it should still be pretty close.
>
> What made this engine so attractive, of course, was the price for a
> rebuilt engine. I remember (to the limited extent that verb describes
> what I actually do!) it as being around $800. It's probably a bit more now.
>
> Owen
>
>
--
Dan Yocum
Fermilab 630.840.6509
yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Boatright, Jeffrey" <jeffboatright(at)emory.edu> |
| Subject: | I love my job....sometimes |
Could it be dry-sumped and mounted upside down?
Jeff Boatright
________________________________________
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]
on behalf of Dan Yocum [yocum(at)fnal.gov]
Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2011 4:32 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: I love my job....sometimes
There are 3 Vortec engines that might fit the bill. A 1.6l, 2.4l, and
the 3.0l.
I think the 2.4l is probably the one Bob was talking about. It comes in
at 247lbs and provides the most torque at 3200RPM and about 90hp.
http://industrial-irrigation.com/assets/files/REV_2011_2400_Industrial.pdf
The 1.6l comes in at 220lbs and provides the top torque at 3200RPM and 70hp:
http://www.bucksengines.com/Data/32.pdf
$800 for an overhaul does sound appealing.
Dan
________________________________
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original message (including attachments).
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Is White Pine Acceptable? |
| From: | "womenfly2" <keriannprice(at)hotmail.com> |
Best do the engineering on both for comparison. There is a big difference.
Also, justify your findings with real load test to verify.
" ...don't fly any higher then you would like to fall! "
--------
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=344530#344530
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Is White Pine Acceptable? |
| From: | "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca> |
As the others have said, "it depends".
As the builder, if you are selecting your own wood, it is very important that you
know exactly what species you are actually choosing. You mentioned "white pine",
but do you know the true species? There are different varieties of white
pine, with different physical characteristics. And, just to make things even
more complicated, as can be seen in the two attachments, one species of wood (Pinus
strobus) is referred to as Northern White Pine in AC43.13-1B, but also referred
to as Eastern White Pine in ANC-18.
The white pine species shown in the chart clearly have lower strength values compared
to Sitka; some more significant than others.
The short answer is exactly what AC43.13-1B says; "Cannot be used as a substitute
for spruce without increase in sizes to compensate for lesser strength." Which
doesn't mean that you couldn't build a successful Piet from "white pine";
it just means that you would need to know exactly what you are working with, and
you would also need to know how to adjust the sizes of the members to appropriately
allow for the lesser strength. And you should also do some actual testing
of the wood you intend to use, to ensure that it has properties in line with
the published values.
Seems like a lot of work to me.
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=344535#344535
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/4313_1b_207.pdf
http://forums.matronics.com//files/anc_18_191.pdf
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG FORSCOM" <steven.d.dortch(at)us.army.mil> |
| Subject: | Re: Is White Pine Acceptable? |
Are you the Bryce who was in Enid, OK this last weekend with Lonnie G?
Steve D
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Amsafetyc(at)gmail.com" <amsafetyc(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: I love my job....sometimes |
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Stu Brown <stu_brown(at)verizon.net> |
Friends,
I cannot find better words. This was produced in 1969 and is more
relevant today than it was back then.
Stu
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BY4YlqZsaqU&feature=related
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Is White Pine Acceptable? |
| From: | "dgaldrich" <dgaldrich(at)embarqmail.com> |
Shameless Plug on behalf of the Brodhead EAA chapter....
If you want a real head start on a fuselage made out of real spruce, bring a truck
(and some money) to Brodhead and buy the fuselage that EAA431 is selling to
raise money. It includes a set of tail feathers and control horns. The chapter
flyer cited in other posts has some more information.
Dave
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=344582#344582
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "skellytown flyer" <skellflyer1(at)yahoo.com> |
Well Kevin I hope you have enough distributors! :
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=344617#344617
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Head start on a project |
| From: | "olflyr45" <wyliejohnson45(at)gmail.com> |
Parting out a Pietenpol. From a previously flying airplane. I have the fuselage
on the gear with the tail assemblies. I would recover it on general principle
but it's a way to cut your build time by about 1/2. If you're interested
reply to wyliejohnson45(at)gmail.com and I'll send pictures.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=344638#344638
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "amsafetyc(at)aol.com" <amsafetyc(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | lycoming 0235 C1B experts |
Okay sports fans here's how it goes. I located an A&P who was willing to
help teach supervise and mentor me in the tear down and overhaul of my
engine. Just as i get ready to order parts he gives one of the female we
need to talk phone messages, knowing nothing good ever comes out of
conversations that begin that way I was skeptical to say the least.
Following all the lawyer excuses it came down to the fact he wasn't
comfortable doing what he had agreed to for legal reasons, again with the
lawyers. Long and short he took a powder on me.
Anyone have any good and reasonable suggestions or resources. I still want
to learn the engine by building it but prefer that be done under the
supervision of a trained and experienced person rather thn my working in a
vacuum and hoping I did it right. This is not my first engine build just my
first aircraft engine build.
I have built enough to know they all have their little tricks and nuances
that mean the difference between a solid reliable build and an accident
waiting to happen. My preference is in the solid reliable trouble free build
category unless there was any confusion as to my goal and preference.
Any suggestions or resources you can suggest in helping me achieve my goal.
Please advise
John
No reasonable offer refused
Sent via DROID on Verizon Wireless
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: lycoming 0235 C1B experts |
| From: | "Piet2112" <curtdm(at)gmail.com> |
John,
I'm about to tear down my C85 and my A&P/IA friend gave me a book to read first.
It was extremely informative and even though it is geared more towards the
Lycomings, it's a great resource for any engine. It's the Sky Ranch Engineering
Manual. There are several different sources for the book and AS&S has it for
about $23.
As far as gaskets, seals, bearings,etc. www.airpowerinc.com seems to have the best prices I could find. If you find something better, please pass it along.
I attached a sample from the book.
Curt Merdan
Flower Mound, TX
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=344685#344685
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/engineering_manual_570.pdf
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: lycoming 0235 C1B experts |
| From: | "Jerry Dotson" <jdotson(at)centurylink.net> |
John,
I just built an O-235 C2C which is very close to being exactly the same. There
are some AD's that need to be tended to oil pump gears,push rod material, carb
venturi and float material, maybe some more. I remember the pushrods and float
being reading the AD's closely to determine if it applied. The oil pump is
very clear in that it requires 2 hardened steel gears. My log book lied. It was
written that the oil pump AD had been done and it had not. Make sure you knock
the sludge tubes out of the crank and clean the krud out. If you are very careful
you can reuse them as it is experimental. I bought an oak dowel the same
OD as the sludge tube and sanded it to fit. Measure them to make sure they are
still a press fit before you reuse them. If they are not removed and cleaned
odds are very great you will have bearing problems as the oil distribution goes
around the OD of those tubes. They make like a centrifuge when the engine
is running. Some of the krud the filters miss is captured within that cavity.
That was not Lycoming's intent. They figured out how to make the crank without
those things in later years. I can really find fault though as my crank was in
great condition after 2050 hours.
I found Dart Aircraft Parts in Waco, Tx the most reasonable. A guy named Steve
was nice to deal with. Note I didn't say cheap. Piston rings were $110 per cylinder
!
The big picture was intentional as I wanted you to see what collects in there.
--------
Jerry Dotson
59 Daniel Johnson Rd
Baker, FL 32531
Started building NX510JD July, 2009
wing, tailfeathers done, fuselage rolling
using Lycoming O-235
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=344716#344716
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00295_155.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "bender" <jfaith(at)solairusaviation.com> |
I have wood on the way and a pattern scaled down from a sopwith camel propeller...i
also have Dan's prop carving info... love the info Dan
now i'm wondering after reading all the post about pitch what pitch to use ??
the F&G manual for '33 says a model a uses a 72x42... same as a lot of you guys
use on the 65 cont..
i know Dan carved a 76x46... hows the climb Dan ?
i'm thinking 76x 42 or 43 maybe...
i have an A with new rods chevy pistons...B grind cam. insert bearings.1.7 inch
intake valves and a thomas high compression 6.7:1 head got to be more power
than Henry made
jeff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=344723#344723
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: The hits just keep on coming |
| From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
John, you have seen my hangar. When I first spoke to Roger (airport owner) about
renting, my first question was, do you mind if I set up shop and build an airplane
in there? He said, no problem at all, in fact we encourage that kind
of activity. He has seen my empty hangar evolve from two workbenches and a few
power/hand tools to the shop it is now. He has no problem with it at all.
I don't leave lights burning all night (he pays the electric), but I did have
a full size fridge/kegerator in there for a year... he didn't even mind that.
I felt kind of guilty having him keep my keg cold all summer during those 100+
degree days, so I downsized to a small fridge and I kill the power on everything
except the fridge before I leave each day... he didn't ask me to, but I do...
it just makes sense. Knowing you, I'm sure that you have a similar setup...
not sure what is so dangerous about that. Sorry it doesn't seem to be working
out.
I know that this doesn't help your situation in the least, but I guess I'm just
trying to say it just depends who you are dealing with. Perhaps there is another
field you could check in to?
Best of luck!
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=344727#344727
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "l.morlock" <l.morlock(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: model a prop |
Jeff, as a point of reference, I just ran the Model A engine in my Piet last
week up in Columbus, IN. It has a 76 X44 Hegy prop. I got 1845 static RPM
with a Tillotson carb (which I think you said you are planning to use) and
1860 static RPM with a Model B carb. Your plan of using 76 x 42 sounds
pretty good. I could use more revs.
Larry
----- Original Message -----
From: "bender" <jfaith(at)solairusaviation.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2011 6:33 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: model a prop
>
>
> I have wood on the way and a pattern scaled down from a sopwith camel
> propeller...i also have Dan's prop carving info... love the info Dan
>
> now i'm wondering after reading all the post about pitch what pitch to use
> ??
>
> the F&G manual for '33 says a model a uses a 72x42... same as a lot of you
> guys use on the 65 cont..
> i know Dan carved a 76x46... hows the climb Dan ?
>
> i'm thinking 76x 42 or 43 maybe...
> i have an A with new rods chevy pistons...B grind cam. insert bearings.1.7
> inch intake valves and a thomas high compression 6.7:1 head got to be
> more power than Henry made
>
> jeff
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=344723#344723
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: model a prop |
| From: | helspersew(at)aol.com |
Hi Jeff,
Now that I have my engine running better, the next agenda item is to test t
he climb performance and record. Won't fly her again till about 7/19. I'll
let y'all know.
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN
-----Original Message-----
From: bender <jfaith(at)solairusaviation.com>
Sent: Sat, Jul 2, 2011 5:36 pm
Subject: Pietenpol-List: model a prop
>
I have wood on the way and a pattern scaled down from a sopwith camel
ropeller...i also have Dan's prop carving info... love the info Dan
now i'm wondering after reading all the post about pitch what pitch to use
??
the F&G manual for '33 says a model a uses a 72x42... same as a lot of you
guys
se on the 65 cont..
know Dan carved a 76x46... hows the climb Dan ?
i'm thinking 76x 42 or 43 maybe...
have an A with new rods chevy pistons...B grind cam. insert bearings.1.7 i
nch
ntake valves and a thomas high compression 6.7:1 head got to be more power
han Henry made
jeff
ead this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=344723#344723
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gene Rambo <generambo(at)msn.com> |
John=2C I have been through all of this before. Any airport that accepts F
ederal funds cannot preclude an owner from performing his own work. That b
eing said=2C they can also place reasonable safety restrictions on your act
ivities. Open flames or electrical wiring that poses a potential fire haza
rd are probably reasonable. I know that if I was to be responsible for eve
ry airplane in my hangar row=2C I would be pretty damned careful. Also=2C
when I think of some of the doofuses in my hangar row=2C all I can say is t
hey better never burn up my Travel Air and Pietenpol for their stupidity!
I KNOW they are not insured enough. Nonetheless=2C there are some who stor
e fuel in plastic 55 gallon drums in their hangar. I'd hate to have to kil
l them!!
If I can help in any way=2C please contact me=2C
Gene
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Amsafetyc(at)gmail.com" <amsafetyc(at)gmail.com> |
Gene
Thanks for the info,insight and offer. Rather than win a small victory and
make an advesary I would prefer to meet the restrictions and maybe make a
friend. Ultimately I just want to be left alone to build my airplane without
toothless tommy and the airport manager looking over my shoulder.
As it is I am at an end row T hangar with no flammable storage in a metal
structure. The most flammable item in the hangar is my uncovered fuse wings
and til feathers in the event of an electrical event the worst is a spark
short to ground and a kicked breaker. The 220 line is 30 amp and is not a
pure 220 in serious need of a double pole breaker. I am the only one
connected to it or has access to a dedicated welder connection from a
previous tennant. All that wire is in conduit all the way to the welder
plug. So again any over heating or short goes directly to ground and trips
the breaker still no threat to the row.
Having a manager that doesn't quite understand electric makes for irrational
fears and over rections.
Oh well it takes all kinds
Thanks again for the help
Looking forward to seeing ya at Brodhead this month
Fly safe
John
Sent via DROID on Verizon Wireless
-----Original message-----
From: Gene Rambo <generambo(at)msn.com>
Sent: Sun, Jul 3, 2011 03:50:32 GMT+00:00
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Hangar work
John, I have been through all of this before. Any airport that accepts
Federal funds cannot preclude an owner from performing his own work. That
being said, they can also place reasonable safety restrictions on your
activities. Open flames or electrical wiring that poses a potential fire
hazard are probably reasonable. I know that if I was to be responsible for
every airplane in my hangar row, I would be pretty damned careful. Also,
when I think of some of the doofuses in my hangar row, all I can say is they
better never burn up my Travel Air and Pietenpol for their stupidity! I
KNOW they are not insured enough. Nonetheless, there are some who store
fuel in plastic 55 gallon drums in their hangar. I'd hate to have to kill
them!!
If I can help in any way, please contact me,
Gene
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JOSEPH SWITHIN <joeswithin(at)yahoo.com> |
Last year the company I worked for decided that after 115 years in business it
was time to close. Being in the building materials business and the state of the
economy, there was no place to land. I put my safety background to work on the
grain business. Very fertile ground for a safety person. Look forward to meeting
you at Brodhead and we can exchange information. If need be contact me off line.
Joe Swithin
Morris, IL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Yocum <yocum(at)fnal.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: lycoming 0235 C1B experts |
John,
The Hatz I was looking at has a 0-235-C1 and I looked up all the ADs and
SBs on it. I've attached it for your review.
The AD search page at
http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgAD.nsf/Frameset?OpenPage
is pretty easy to navigate.
Enjoy!
Dan
On 07/02/2011 03:34 PM, Jerry Dotson wrote:
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Jerry Dotson"
>
> John,
> I just built an O-235 C2C which is very close to being exactly the same. There
are some AD's that need to be tended to oil pump gears,push rod material,
carb venturi and float material, maybe some more. I remember the pushrods and
float being reading the AD's closely to determine if it applied. The oil pump
is very clear in that it requires 2 hardened steel gears. My log book lied. It
was written that the oil pump AD had been done and it had not. Make sure you
knock the sludge tubes out of the crank and clean the krud out. If you are very
careful you can reuse them as it is experimental. I bought an oak dowel the
same OD as the sludge tube and sanded it to fit. Measure them to make sure they
are still a press fit before you reuse them. If they are not removed and cleaned
odds are very great you will have bearing problems as the oil distribution
goes around the OD of those tubes. They make like a centrifuge when the engine
is running. Some of the krud the filters miss is c
ap!
> tured within that cavity. That was not Lycoming's intent. They figured out
how to make the crank without those things in later years. I can really find fault
though as my crank was in great condition after 2050 hours.
>
> I found Dart Aircraft Parts in Waco, Tx the most reasonable. A guy named Steve
was nice to deal with. Note I didn't say cheap. Piston rings were $110 per
cylinder !
>
> The big picture was intentional as I wanted you to see what collects in there.
>
> --------
> Jerry Dotson
> 59 Daniel Johnson Rd
> Baker, FL 32531
>
> Started building NX510JD July, 2009
> wing, tailfeathers done, fuselage rolling
> using Lycoming O-235
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=344716#344716
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00295_155.jpg
>
>
--
Dan Yocum
Fermilab 630.840.6509
yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
Lycoming Service Bulletins
SB582A Float in float carb needs attention
SB530B Application of Protective Coating on Crankshaft
SB524 Replacement of Sintered Iron or Al Oil Pump Impellers
within 100hrs or 5yrs of AD
SB505B Inspection of Crankshaft I.D. for Corrosion
SB475C Crankshaft Gear Modification and Assembly Procedures
Damage to the crankshaft gear and the counterbored recess in the
rear of the crankshaft, as well as badly worn or broken gear
alignment dowels are the result of improper assembly techniques
or the reuse of worn or damaged parts during reassembly. Since a
failure of the gear or the gear attaching parts would result in
complete engine stoppage, the proper inspection and reassembly of
these parts is very important. The procedures described in the
following steps are mandatory.
SB388C Procedure to Determine Exhaust Valve and Guide Condition
400hr intervals if valve sticking is suspected
Excessive carbon build-up in valve train
SB366B Carburetor Throttle Body Screw Inspection
All Marvell Schebler carbs. Look for fuel stains around body and bowl.
SB240V Mandatory Parts Replacement at OH and During Repair or Maintenance
O-235-C1 Airworthiness Directives
2004-10-14 Crankshaft gear
after a propeller strike, sudden stoppage, at overhaul, or
whenever gear train repair is required
96-09-10 Oil pump - see SB524, above
within 100hrs of AD
95-03-10 Push Rods - All push rods with P/N 73806 and revision
letters "V" or "W" must be replaced with serviceable parts
within 5hrs
80-25-02 R2 Pushrods - when was the engine OH'd?
within 25hrs
75-08-09 Oil Pump Drive Shaft - To prevent oil pump failures, inspect,
replace and assemble the oil pump drive shaft and drive
impeller in accordance with the inspection and procedure
paragraphs of Lycoming Service Bulletin No. 381B or No. 385C
or later revision.
within 50hrs or first 400hrs, whichever is later
Bendix Mags
S4LN 20 (right)
part no 10-51360-29 A1
s/n 787726
S4LN 21 (left)
part no 10-51360-10
s/n 321279
Airworthiness Directives
2005-12-06 see MSB645
INSPECTION OF RIVETED IMPULSE COUPLINGS AND STOP PINS
82-20-01
S4LN-21 series, SNs B-001171 or A297043 - To prevent failure of impulse coupling
due to improperly heat treated (soft) flyweights resulting in engine damage
or failure, accomplish the following: (Ref. Bendix Service Bulletin No. 623 dated
September 1982.)
within 10hrs
74-26-09
S-20 series - insure that the affected magnetos incorporate a solid steel drive
shaft bushing
within 90d after AD
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
Good post, Gene. I know many FBO's who would rather that this knowledge
didn't get about.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gene Rambo
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2011 11:42 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Hangar work
John, I have been through all of this before. Any airport that accepts
Federal funds cannot preclude an owner from performing his own work. That
being said, they can also place reasonable safety restrictions on your
activities. Open flames or electrical wiring that poses a potential fire
hazard are probably reasonable. I know that if I was to be responsible for
every airplane in my hangar row, I would be pretty damned careful. Also,
when I think of some of the doofuses in my hangar row, all I can say is they
better never burn up my Travel Air and Pietenpol for their stupidity! I
KNOW they are not insured enough. Nonetheless, there are some who store
fuel in plastic 55 gallon drums in their hangar. I'd hate to have to kill
them!!
If I can help in any way, please contact me,
Gene
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "skipgadd(at)earthlink.net" <skipgadd(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Center section handle bracket |
The list is slow this morning, so I will put this out for comment and general information.
Don't know how others have handled(pun intended) this problem. I thought
a long time about how to reinforce the handle the pilot grabs as he gets
in or out of the back pit. My Grega has a similar handle but I can't look inside
the C/S to see how it is reinforced. The brackets are .058X5/8 tube and 16ga
plate. They are screwed to the handle through the ply and spruce and bolted
to the C/S spar(vertical center only) with AN3 hardware.
Skip
skipgadd(at)earthlink.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Center section handle bracket |
Skipp, that certainly looks more than adequate. That is certainly a
very
high load area as the pilot puts his entire weight on it during ingress
and
egress. I made mine as a =BC=94 plwood box, going to a laminated spruce
bow as
shown below, and I believe you could use it to pick up the entire
airplane.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP =93Icarus Plummet=94
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
skipgadd(at)earthlink.net
Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2011 9:21 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Center section handle bracket
The list is slow this morning, so I will put this out for comment and
general information. Don't know how others have handled(pun intended)
this
problem. I thought a long time about how to reinforce the handle the
pilot
grabs as he gets in or out of the back pit. My Grega has a similar
handle
but I can't look inside the C/S to see how it is reinforced. The
brackets
are .058X5/8 tube and 16ga plate. They are screwed to the handle through
the
ply and spruce and bolted to the C/S spar(vertical center only) with AN3
hardware.
Skip
skipgadd(at)earthlink.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "skipgadd(at)earthlink.net" <skipgadd(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Center section handle bracket |
Jack, Thanks for the picture, it looks really stout. My fuel tank is next, are
there any baffles side to side?
Skip
----- Original Message -----
From: Jack Phillips
Sent: 7/3/2011 12:29:03 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Center section handle bracket
Skipp, that certainly looks more than adequate. That is certainly a very high
load area as the pilot puts his entire weight on it during ingress and egress.
I made mine as a plwood box, going to a laminated spruce bow as shown below,
and I believe you could use it to pick up the entire airplane.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP Icarus Plummet
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ben Charvet <bencharvet(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Center section handle bracket |
I ended up building a flap in the rear of my center section to make it
easier to exit. I also have an active Sky-dive business at my home
airport, so I thought it would be a good idea to be able to look
straight up to make sure all the jumpers were down before I took off.
I didn't put any handle at all on my center section. The two rear
cabane struts make a perfect place to grab to pull myself out of the
seat, and allow me to use both arms for the effort. Your center section
looks beautiful, but I think it would look even better without the
handle, and the added stress it puts on all that 1/4 x 1/2 inch
structure. Just my $.02
Ben Charvet
85 hours since 2/19/2010
On 7/3/2011 9:20 AM, skipgadd(at)earthlink.net wrote:
>
> The list is slow this morning, so I will put this out for comment and
> general information. Don't know how others have handled(pun intended)
> this problem. I thought a long time about how to reinforce the handle
> the pilot grabs as he gets in or out of the back pit. My Grega has a
> similar handle but I can't look inside the C/S to see how it is
> reinforced. The brackets are .058X5/8 tube and 16ga plate. They are
> screwed to the handle through the ply and spruce and bolted to the C/S
> spar(vertical center only) with AN3 hardware.
> Skip
> skipgadd(at)earthlink.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | another West Coast Piet |
Howdy, low 'n' slow fliers;
While I've been sitting here twiddling my thumbs waiting to find a house and hangar,
I had a
nice email from Doc Mosher, forwarding another email to me. Seems that the folks
up in
McMinnville at the Evergreen Aviation and Space Museum (home of the Howard Hughes
'Spruce Goose') are about 80% progressed on building a Piet for the museum! I
don't know
if their intent is to fly it, but I sure hope so. And knowing the quality of displays
in most
museums, I'll bet their Air Camper will be a beauty. Doc forwarded the email to
me because
the builders were looking for one of the brass data plates that I sell, and I'll
be donating one
to the project (they are all volunteers and everything is done by contributions).
I'm anxious to start some low and slow flying up and down the I-5 corridor, if
I can just get
Scout up here. But being the loyal husband that I am, I've promised to focus
on getting us
into a permanent residence first, and then worrying about airplanes and hangars.
I hope
I get some brownie points or a gold star by my name or something ;o)
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
Flying Squirrel N2069Z "Rocket"
Medford, OR
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <don.h(at)wcoil.com> |
| Subject: | Re: another West Coast Piet |
here it is oscar any one who waits to get a apt for honey deserves a star.
-----Original Message-----
From: Oscar Zuniga
Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2011 4:20 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: another West Coast Piet
Howdy, low 'n' slow fliers;
While I've been sitting here twiddling my thumbs waiting to find a house and
hangar, I had a
nice email from Doc Mosher, forwarding another email to me. Seems that the
folks up in
McMinnville at the Evergreen Aviation and Space Museum (home of the Howard
Hughes
'Spruce Goose') are about 80% progressed on building a Piet for the museum!
I don't know
if their intent is to fly it, but I sure hope so. And knowing the quality
of displays in most
museums, I'll bet their Air Camper will be a beauty. Doc forwarded the
email to me because
the builders were looking for one of the brass data plates that I sell, and
I'll be donating one
to the project (they are all volunteers and everything is done by
contributions).
I'm anxious to start some low and slow flying up and down the I-5 corridor,
if I can just get
Scout up here. But being the loyal husband that I am, I've promised to
focus on getting us
into a permanent residence first, and then worrying about airplanes and
hangars. I hope
I get some brownie points or a gold star by my name or something ;o)
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
Flying Squirrel N2069Z "Rocket"
Medford, OR
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Center section handle bracket |
| From: | "skellytown flyer" <skellflyer1(at)yahoo.com> |
I know it's not a truly all wood idea- but what I ended up doing after looking
at the wing flop I had with my project a while was- scrap it and get some light
1/2" galvanized EMT I think it's called conduit. kept working it into a bow
till I had a curve I liked that went from one root rib to the other on the wings.bent
some light steel to make clips that could be screwed into the rib tails
so it all faired in.and made 2 short ribs from Aluminum sheet- (actually cut
em out from some surplus aluminum signs I had)that fit the back of the rear center
section spar and tapered to the width of the EMT. left tabs on them that
lapped the top and bottom of the conduit and riveted them to it with stainless
steel pop rivets. and a couple bolts from the ribs to the spar give lots of
strength. also used a straight piece to bridge across the bow in the center with
enough width and room for a grab handle - brazed it on after fitting the ends,and
after final installing the wings and rigging- doped and fabric covered
the area as well as the root gaps on the wing.looks like a one piece wing now.
would take a little more work to get the wings off but unless I need to do serious
work i don't plan on that anyway.did away with gap seals and came out pretty
clean and simple-I wouldn't want to swing my 210#'s from it but sure feels
strong and solid using it to steady myself getting in and out.not to Grega drawings
but it works for me Raymond
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=344810#344810
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | high altitude Piet |
Hey all,
Not sure if it'll ever happen, but a move to the high country of Colorado
MIGHT take place one year in the future. The closest airports are Buena
Vista at 7900 feet and Salida at 7400 feet elevation. (8000ft and 7000ft
long respectively!)
My piet has standard wings, but a new C-90 turning a Cloud Car prop. The
approaches to both these fields open as they're in the middle of the same
valley.
Do you think I'd be okay?
I remember "Mountain Piet" was based out of Buena Vista, and with his
reduced Subaru, he did fine while it flew, though it was turbocharged.
I'm sure I could find lower fields, but they start getting farther and
farther away, which makes things less enjoyable and convenient.
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: high altitude Piet |
| From: | mark lee <mlmarkelee7(at)gmail.com> |
It's a long way to anything lower from there.If you can deal with the
altitude it's a great area.
On Sun, Jul 3, 2011 at 3:28 PM, Douwe Blumberg
wrote:
> **
>
> Hey all,****
>
> ** **
>
> Not sure if it=92ll ever happen, but a move to the high country of Colora
do
> MIGHT take place one year in the future. The closest airports are **Buen
a
> Vista** at 7900 feet and Salida at 7400 feet elevation. (8000ft and 7000f
t
> long respectively!)****
>
> ** **
>
> My piet has standard wings, but a new C-90 turning a Cloud Car prop. The
> approaches to both these fields open as they=92re in the middle of the sa
me
> valley. ****
>
> ** **
>
> Do you think I=92d be okay? ****
>
> ** **
>
> I remember =93Mountain Piet=94 was based out of **Buena Vista**, and with
his
> reduced Subaru, he did fine while it flew, though it was turbocharged.***
*
>
> ** **
>
> I=92m sure I could find lower fields, but they start getting farther and
> farther away, which makes things less enjoyable and convenient.****
>
> ** **
>
> Douwe****
>
> *
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jim" <quinnj(at)sbcglobal.net> |
I'm looking to order the turnbuckles for the aileron and tail brace
wires. Got very confused looking at the AC catalog offerings. Help! What
do I need to order?
Thanks,
Jim
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Don flying his Chief up instead of Piet |
| From: | "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com> |
Ha! My wife Gretchen, of all people, told me it just wouldn't be right. She said
if I'm "flyin' to Brodhead it better be in the Piet". (umm...not that us
Piet guys let our wives tell us what to do...) Don't know what I was thinking!
Douwe, looks like we get to stay friends!!
Don Emch
NX899DE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=344847#344847
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "amsafetyc(at)aol.com" <amsafetyc(at)aol.com> |
Since moving into the hangar I contacted my Allstate insurance agent to find
out about coverage for my almost an airplane. I wasn certain if it woul be
considered an airplane or content. They were going to contact home office
and get back to me,still waiting.....
So the question in my mind is at what point does it become an airplane? Like
everyone else I too am highly protective of my thousands of hours of work
and up to date accomplishments and would like to bind appropriate coverage
for all non act of God perils.
Anyone have any suggestions or is that a carrier and or EAA question?
I would doubt the leesor would have any coverage beyond structure to protect
its assets.
So how would I protect mine. Allstate says if its content it could be
covered under my homeowners policy but that would be more content and pay
only for base materials since its not an airplane yet
When it becomes an airplane it would have a policy similar to an auto or
motor vehicle policy.
As a project its neither an airplane nor a pile of lumber.
I am interested to learn the legal aspects of it and anyone elses experience
in this area.
Not wanting to admit it but I am perplexed and concerned about other
remnants in my row
Please advise
John
Sent via DROID on Verizon Wireless
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "amsafetyc(at)aol.com" <amsafetyc(at)aol.com> |
Jim
You may want to order them from B & B you can speak to them and the will
help with your application selection. They are if not already preping for
Oshkosh so call soon. Great folks to work with helpful and priced much
better than others
John
Happy independance day celebrating by building my Piet no better way to
honor those that bought and paid for our freedom
Please archive
Sent via DROID on Verizon Wireless
-----Original message-----
From: jim <quinnj(at)sbcglobal.net>
Sent: Mon, Jul 4, 2011 00:50:13 GMT+00:00
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Turnbuckles
I'm looking to order the turnbuckles for the aileron and tail brace wires.
Got very confused looking at the AC catalog offerings. Help! What do I need
to order?
Thanks,
Jim
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Perry Rhoads" <prhoads61(at)frontiernet.net> |
John,
Your homeowners insurance excludes aircraft and aircraft parts. You need
to contact the EAA insurance program.They have coverage available for
projects in progress. I believe a few other companies also offer this
coverage.
Perry Rhoads
Piet N12939
----- Original Message -----
From: amsafetyc(at)aol.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, July 04, 2011 8:19 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Insurance
Since moving into the hangar I contacted my Allstate insurance agent
to find out about coverage for my almost an airplane. I wasn certain if
it woul be considered an airplane or content. They were going to
contact home office and get back to me,still waiting.....
So the question in my mind is at what point does it become an
airplane? Like everyone else I too am highly protective of my thousands
of hours of work and up to date accomplishments and would like to bind
appropriate coverage for all non act of God perils.
Anyone have any suggestions or is that a carrier and or EAA question?
I would doubt the leesor would have any coverage beyond structure to
protect its assets.
So how would I protect mine. Allstate says if its content it could be
covered under my homeowners policy but that would be more content and
pay only for base materials since its not an airplane yet
When it becomes an airplane it would have a policy similar to an auto
or motor vehicle policy.
As a project its neither an airplane nor a pile of lumber.
I am interested to learn the legal aspects of it and anyone elses
experience in this area.
Not wanting to admit it but I am perplexed and concerned about other
remnants in my row
Please advise
John
Sent via DROID on Verizon Wireless
=B7>~?=ED=B2,=DE=03g(-S=D3M=D3Gq=A2z=C1=AE
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Cardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net> |
Start by selecting the cable you will use, then select the appropriate
components. It helps to draw it out on paper.
Attached are a couple of pdf's to get you going.
Greg Cardinal
Pursuing liberty and happiness this afternoon by going flying.....
----- Original Message -----
From: jim
To: Piet list
Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2011 7:38 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Turnbuckles
I'm looking to order the turnbuckles for the aileron and tail brace
wires. Got very confused looking at the AC catalog offerings. Help! What
do I need to order?
Thanks,
Jim
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> |
Yes! I bought my turnbuckles from B & B for $7.50 each -- about 1/4th
what AS charges. In case you don't have it, their address is: B & B
Aircraft Supplies, PO Box 37, 202 South Center, Gardner, KS 66030, phone
(913) 884-5930, fax (913) 884-6533. Hope that helps. Don't know if
they have turnbuckles right now, but you can certainly not go wrong by
checking. Good Fortune (I don't believe in Luck). Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: amsafetyc(at)aol.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, July 04, 2011 9:30 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Turnbuckles
Jim
You may want to order them from B & B you can speak to them and the
will help with your application selection. They are if not already
preping for Oshkosh so call soon. Great folks to work with helpful and
priced much better than others
John
Happy independance day celebrating by building my Piet no better way
to honor those that bought and paid for our freedom
Please archive
Sent via DROID on Verizon Wireless
-----Original message-----
From: jim <quinnj(at)sbcglobal.net>
To: Piet list
Sent: Mon, Jul 4, 2011 00:50:13 GMT+00:00
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Turnbuckles
I'm looking to order the turnbuckles for the aileron and tail brace
wires. Got very confused looking at the AC catalog offerings. Help! What
do I need to order?
Thanks,
Jim
~=B2=03
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG FORSCOM" <steven.d.dortch(at)us.army.mil> |
Just for reference. I have a 1948 V tail bonanza. It is currently being hangered/stored
in a flight school hanger. They requested that I have insurance. I was
able to get it insured for hull and all for $1000 per year. That is whether
or not it is flying or in the hanger. (it was only $50 less for non flying insurance.)
That is about as cheap as my auto insurance for my 4 cars. Having said that If
I rolled my old plane up in a ball it is worth about $20,000 in today's depressed
market. At one point it was worth just under $60,000.
"Vintage" airplanes have recovered even less than the regular airplane market.
Blue Skies,
Steve
PS Today a group of Cessna pilots will do a "low level" fly around Enid, OK. Clyde
Cessna was an Overland car salesman in Enid and built his first plane here.
He learned to fly and tested his plane NW of here at the Great Salt Planes.
Taking off and crashing 12 times before having a successful flight on his 13th
try. He was going to fly this plane at it's first public exhibition in Enid on
4 July 100 years ago. But he did not have the plane ready as fast as he thought
he would (sound familiar? )
June 17, 2011 - - - - , 20-
Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-kn