Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-kr

August 14, 2011 - August 27, 2011



      the cabane and spar butt joint straps.  I had always planned on building the
      3-piece wing but hadn't deliberately studied the plan page until today.  I
      was always under the assumption from the "Improved Design" that the spar for
      the forward wing was 1" wide routed to 1/2" where indicated; the rear spar
      is a solid 1".  This is how I had planned to do it.
      
      In reviewing the 3-piece center section plans, it says the center section
      spar is 3/4" and the wing panel spar is 3/4".
      
      In reviewing the archives, I see people have done it many ways--1" routed
      wing spars, 1" non-routed wing spars, 3/4" wing spars.
      
      My question, I suppose, would be this-- I'll plan on using the 1" routed
      front wing spars and the 1" solid rear spars as plans indicate, but does
      this mean per the 3-piece plans that the center section spar should still be
      3/4" (and add plywood or spruce spacers to match the 1" dimensions of the
      outer wing spars) or would I make the center section spars 1" to match the
      left and right wing spars exactly?  My ribs were built for the 1" spars.
      
      Any thoughts would be appreciated.
      
      Tom
      
      
      Read this topic online here:
      
      http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=349453#349453
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gboothe5" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Tail wheel assembly weight
Date: Aug 14, 2011
If the shim was added to compensate for a heavy tail.that heavy tailwheel could be part of the problem. Keep looking, though. Gary From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Kuhfahl Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2011 6:25 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Tail wheel assembly weight Not sure what that means? John On Sun, Aug 14, 2011 at 7:40 PM, wrote: Ha-ha! Shim may have been added same day as the tailwheel! Gary Sent on the SprintR Now Network from my BlackBerryR _____ From: John Kuhfahl <kuhlcouper(at)gmail.com> Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2011 19:14:54 -0500 ReplyTo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: Tail wheel assembly weight OK thanks to all who responded on the horizontal spacer I found. I suspected it was a fix for an underlying problem. I have this big old 10-pound tail wheel assembly. Probably too heavy right? -- John Kuhfahl, Lt Col USAF (Ret), President, KUHLCOUPER LLC -- John Kuhfahl, Lt Col USAF (Ret), President, KUHLCOUPER LLC ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Wing spar dimension question
From: "tdudley(at)umn.edu" <tdudley(at)umn.edu>
Date: Aug 14, 2011
Jack, Thanks for the input. I suppose, to avoid any additional thinking (or ordering incorrectly sized spruce), I could just build the original plans wing (as I'd thought about when I started the project). My reason for choosing the three-piece wing design is I'd heard the way Pietenpol had originally joined the wing halves wasn't really regarded as "sound" (even though structurally I've not heard of a failure from this). Is that true? I suspect others have built the one piece wing design to plans, but do they join the wing spars as per plans (angled cuts with vertical bolts), or is there another means (maybe published or not) by which the spars might be joined in the center that is considered a bit stouter or more accepted? Tom Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=349465#349465 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 14, 2011
Subject: Re: Wing spar dimension question
From: Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com>
In the years since the plans were drawn, the FAA has decided there is a better way to splice spars. If you don't have a paper copy of the latest revision of AC 43-13, now's the time to buy it. They specifically reference splices in Ch 1, starting page 1-15: http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgAdvisoryCircular.nsf/0/99C827DB9BAAC81B86256B4500596C4E?OpenDocument On Sun, Aug 14, 2011 at 9:52 PM, tdudley(at)umn.edu wrote: > > Jack, > > Thanks for the input. I suppose, to avoid any additional thinking (or > ordering incorrectly sized spruce), I could just build the original plans > wing (as I'd thought about when I started the project). My reason for > choosing the three-piece wing design is I'd heard the way Pietenpol had > originally joined the wing halves wasn't really regarded as "sound" (even > though structurally I've not heard of a failure from this). Is that true? > I suspect others have built the one piece wing design to plans, but do they > join the wing spars as per plans (angled cuts with vertical bolts), or is > there another means (maybe published or not) by which the spars might be > joined in the center that is considered a bit stouter or more accepted? > > Tom > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=349465#349465 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Wing spar dimension question
From: "Jerry Dotson" <jdotson(at)centurylink.net>
Date: Aug 15, 2011
Tom, I built the 1 piece wing and scarfed the joint with 1/4"plywood scabs on each side. The joint is pretty strong. We picked the wing up by the tips and it held without complaint. Bernard's way worked though. Think about the geometry of it. The 3 piece wing is a hinged affair and depends totally on struts and cables for structural integrity. That said IF I were to build another Piet I would build the 3 piece wing simply because the 1 piece is hard to handle. I am covering now and the wing is next......stay tuned. -------- Jerry Dotson 59 Daniel Johnson Rd Baker, FL 32531 Started building NX510JD July, 2009 wing, tailfeathers done, fuselage rolling using Lycoming O-235 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=349475#349475 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/a64_822.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/a63_137.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/a62_863.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Wing spar dimension question
From: "tdudley(at)umn.edu" <tdudley(at)umn.edu>
Date: Aug 15, 2011
I just wanted to clarify that I mistakenly said the rear 1" spar isn't routed. It is but I was looking at the wrong diagram when I posted initially. Sorry. Tom Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=349481#349481 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Wing spar dimension question
From: "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca>
Date: Aug 15, 2011
Tom, The 3-piece wing plan was drawn in 1975, by Vi Kapler. I believe that by that time, the use of 3/4" solid spars in lieu of routed 1" spars was fairly common. That is likely the reason why it shows 3/4" spars. There is, however one detail on the drawing that shows the routed areas, with a note that says "routed spar only". My interpretation of this is that the plans in general, are drawn for the use of 3/4" solid spars, but could easily be adapted to accommodate the use of routed 1" spars. In that case, the thickness of the centersection spars would be made to match the outboard spars (with adjustments as suggested by Jack). On another note, you write that the plans indicate that the front spar should be routed, and the rear spar should be solid. I assume that you got that impression from the detail that shows two cross-sections thru the spar (see attached clip from plans). Those two details are to show the difference between the routed and non-routed areas of each spar. Both front and rear spars should be routed the same. If you want to build a one-piece wing, the center splice should be scarfed in the 1" dimension, as opposed to the 4 3/4" dimension that the plans show. Scarfing dimensions and techniques should follow AC 43.13-1B. Bill C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=349483#349483 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/spars_193.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 15, 2011
From: Dan Yocum <yocum(at)fnal.gov>
Subject: Re: Wing spar dimension question
Jerry, You scarfed the spar joint per AC 43.13-1B and then added the 1/4" ply to each side, right? Dan On 08/15/2011 06:26 AM, Jerry Dotson wrote: > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Jerry Dotson" > > Tom, > I built the 1 piece wing and scarfed the joint with 1/4"plywood scabs on each side. The joint is pretty strong. We picked the wing up by the tips and it held without complaint. Bernard's way worked though. Think about the geometry of it. The 3 piece wing is a hinged affair and depends totally on struts and cables for structural integrity. That said IF I were to build another Piet I would build the 3 piece wing simply because the 1 piece is hard to handle. I am covering now and the wing is next......stay tuned. -- Dan Yocum Fermilab 630.840.6509 yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things." ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Speed not related to Pietenpol
From: "Mild Bill" <whfrank(at)charter.net>
Date: Aug 15, 2011
That article reminded me of the Snger/Bredt proposal. http://www.luft46.com/misc/sanger.html http://www.sharkit.com/sharkit/Sanger/sanger.htm http://greyfalcon.us/Sanger.htm http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N38oSFwlYhE&feature=related -------- Bill Frank Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=349491#349491 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Wing spar dimension question
From: "Jerry Dotson" <jdotson(at)centurylink.net>
Date: Aug 15, 2011
Yes as near as I could. The scar is an inch or so short of AC 43.13-1B. I could not and keep the rib spacing. The scarf is nearly 24" long. -------- Jerry Dotson 59 Daniel Johnson Rd Baker, FL 32531 Started building NX510JD July, 2009 wing, tailfeathers done, fuselage rolling using Lycoming O-235 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=349502#349502 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 15, 2011
Subject: Re: Horizontal Stabilizer spacer
From: John Kuhfahl <kuhlcouper(at)gmail.com>
I think you have it right--as I said I have a heavy tailwheel there. Just trying to get all the pieces clean an serviceable before I put it back together. That piece needs to stay out--I'll work the W&B later. John On Sun, Aug 14, 2011 at 12:20 PM, Jack Phillips wro te: > ** ** ** > > John,**** > > ** ** > > I=92ve never seen a spacer like that on a Pietenpol. Have you run an > accurate weight and balance on the airplane? My guess is the plane was > quite tailheavy and they needed more lift out of the tail. If it is that > tailheavy, you should conisder moving the wing aft to get it somewhere cl ose > to the normal CG. Pietenpols tend to be tailheavy, and while the airfoil > can accommodate cg=92s slightly aft of 33% MAC (20=94 from leading edge) I > wouldn=92t push that.**** > > ** ** > > Jack Phillips**** > > NX899JP**** > > Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia**** > > ** ** > ------------------------------ > > *From:* owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto: > owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *John Kuhfahl > *Sent:* Sunday, August 14, 2011 12:41 PM > > *To:* pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: Horizontal Stabilizer spacer > **** > > ** ** > > I am moving along on the Piet restoration. Cleaning, replacing , and > painting. This airplane has a horiz. stab.spacer--guess they needed it. Is > this normal? See attached. Thanks in advance... > > -- > John Kuhfahl, ****Lt** **Col**** USAF (Ret), > President, KUHLCOUPER LLC**** > > * > =========== =========== =========== =========== > * > > -- John Kuhfahl, Lt Col USAF (Ret), President, KUHLCOUPER LLC ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Wing spar dimension question
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 15, 2011
For many years 12:1 scarf was just fine and dandy, AC43.13-1A. Then AC43.13 -1B changed it to 15:1. I made mine 12:1 which for that center section join t is way overkill anyway. There will be very little stress on the spar ther e. 12:1 was hard enough to do. Can't imagine tryin 15:1. Dan Helsper Puryear, TN. -----Original Message----- From: Jerry Dotson <jdotson(at)centurylink.net> Sent: Mon, Aug 15, 2011 10:49 am Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing spar dimension question et> Yes as near as I could. The scar is an inch or so short of AC 43.13-1B. I could ot and keep the rib spacing. The scarf is nearly 24" long. -------- erry Dotson 9 Daniel Johnson Rd aker, FL 32531 Started building NX510JD July, 2009 ing, tailfeathers done, fuselage rolling sing Lycoming O-235 ead this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=349502#349502 -= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List - -======================== -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -======================== -= - List Contribution Web Site - -= Thank you for your generous support! -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution -======================== ________________________________________________________________________________
From: John Hofmann <jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc.com>
Subject: Young Eagles
Date: Aug 15, 2011
Yesterday 502Rocket and I were able to participate in flying EAA Young Eagles at the Hartford Balloon Rally. HXF is a great community airport with no fences and a welcoming attitude to the general public. Steve Krog has the Cub Air flight school there and of the 110 airplanes on the field, 85 are taildraggers. The City of Hartford and the Chamber of Commerce are really good to us so this is just a little thing we do every year to give back. Last year was my first time flying in the YE program with my Cub and I had a blast. We flew 184 kids last year. This year, I decided to give the Piet a chance to hop kids. We have had a dry summer in Wisconsin this year. In the last couple of months I can remember two weekends of rain; Brodhead and this weekend. We were supposed to run from 12 - 4 and it did not look good. The weather started to break a little after noon and couple of us went up and probed the skies. About 1:00 we had a 1,000 ft ceiling and all was a go. I took Rachel (my daughter) up so we could work out the intercom system. It never did work right. We landed and taxied to the gas pump (after avoiding the CAP goons). While I was fueling a camera crew from the local cable outlet came and interviewed me about the airplane. That was kind of fun. Kids were lining up and we had quite a few airplanes ready to go. =46rom memory I saw 4 J3s, a PA-12, Cherokee 140, F33 Bonanza, Cherokee Archer, Taylorcraft, two Luscombes, a Robinson R-44 and one Pietenpol. Given the weather we kept it a little closer to the field and in the Piet, that meant about a 20 minute ride. I was able to take up three kids before thunderstorms came back. With the weather challenges we were still able to give 94 rides. Observations: The three kids I took up all requested the open cockpit. Twelve year old kids should not be as fat as me. The Cub is much easier to load/unload. I am still working on MILF Eagles to coincide with YE. Lots of pretty moms want rides. The Piet makes a great ramp presence and overall was a success as a YE flyer. It was a blast. -john- http://www.cafepress.com/half_fast John Hofmann Vice-President, Information Technology The Rees Group, Inc. 2424 American Lane Madison, WI 53704 Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150 Fax: 608.443.2474 Email: jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Gene Rambo <generambo(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Wing spar dimension question
Date: Aug 15, 2011
15:1 would not keep the scarf out from under the fittings=2C which is forbi dden. Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing spar dimension question From: helspersew(at)aol.com Date: Mon=2C 15 Aug 2011 13:05:27 -0400 For many years 12:1 scarf was just fine and dandy=2C AC43.13-1A. Then AC43. 13-1B changed it to 15:1. I made mine 12:1 which for that center section jo int is way overkill anyway. There will be very little stress on the spar th ere. 12:1 was hard enough to do. Can't imagine tryin 15:1. Dan Helsper Puryear=2C TN. -----Original Message----- From: Jerry Dotson <jdotson(at)centurylink.net> Sent: Mon=2C Aug 15=2C 2011 10:49 am Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing spar dimension question et> Yes as near as I could. The scar is an inch or so short of AC 43.13-1B. I could not and keep the rib spacing. The scarf is nearly 24" long. -------- Jerry Dotson 59 Daniel Johnson Rd Baker=2C FL 32531 Started building NX510JD July=2C 2009 wing=2C tailfeathers done=2C fuselage rolling using Lycoming O-235 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=349502#349502 " target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List p://forums.matronics.com blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 15, 2011
From: Dan Yocum <yocum(at)fnal.gov>
Subject: Re: Wing spar dimension question
I'm sure it's fine - I just misunderstood Jerry to say that he only created the joint by overlaying the joint with 1/4" ply. My brain skipped the word "scarf" in his sentence. My bad. Dan On 08/15/2011 12:05 PM, helspersew(at)aol.com wrote: > For many years 12:1 scarf was just fine and dandy, AC43.13-1A. Then > AC43.13-1B changed it to 15:1. I made mine 12:1 which for that center > section joint is way overkill anyway. There will be very little stress > on the spar there. 12:1 was hard enough to do. Can't imagine tryin 15:1. > Dan Helsper > Puryear, TN. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jerry Dotson <jdotson(at)centurylink.net> > To: pietenpol-list > Sent: Mon, Aug 15, 2011 10:49 am > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing spar dimension question > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Jerry Dotson"> > > Yes as near as I could. The scar is an inch or so short of AC 43.13-1B. I could > not and keep the rib spacing. The scarf is nearly 24" long. > > -------- > Jerry Dotson > 59 Daniel Johnson Rd > Baker, FL 32531 > > Started building NX510JD July, 2009 > wing, tailfeathers done, fuselage rolling > using Lycoming O-235 > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=349502#349502 > > > " target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > p://forums.matronics.com > blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > > * > > > * > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. > For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email > ______________________________________________________________________ -- Dan Yocum Fermilab 630.840.6509 yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things." ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Barry Davis" <bed(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Young Eagles
Date: Aug 15, 2011
John EAA is working on a new program to fly the "moms". This is very sim to the Young Eagles Program and is directed toward adults. We don't have a name for it yet (maybe we can use yours), but watch for an announcement in the near future. Good job on the YE flights. Barry Davis NX973BP _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Hofmann Sent: Monday, August 15, 2011 1:10 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Young Eagles Yesterday 502Rocket and I were able to participate in flying EAA Young Eagles at the Hartford Balloon Rally. HXF is a great community airport with no fences and a welcoming attitude to the general public. Steve Krog has the Cub Air flight school there and of the 110 airplanes on the field, 85 are taildraggers. The City of Hartford and the Chamber of Commerce are really good to us so this is just a little thing we do every year to give back. Last year was my first time flying in the YE program with my Cub and I had a blast. We flew 184 kids last year. This year, I decided to give the Piet a chance to hop kids. We have had a dry summer in Wisconsin this year. In the last couple of months I can remember two weekends of rain; Brodhead and this weekend. We were supposed to run from 12 - 4 and it did not look good. The weather started to break a little after noon and couple of us went up and probed the skies. About 1:00 we had a 1,000 ft ceiling and all was a go. I took Rachel (my daughter) up so we could work out the intercom system. It never did work right. We landed and taxied to the gas pump (after avoiding the CAP goons). While I was fueling a camera crew from the local cable outlet came and interviewed me about the airplane. That was kind of fun. Kids were lining up and we had quite a few airplanes ready to go. From memory I saw 4 J3s, a PA-12, Cherokee 140, F33 Bonanza, Cherokee Archer, Taylorcraft, two Luscombes, a Robinson R-44 and one Pietenpol. Given the weather we kept it a little closer to the field and in the Piet, that meant about a 20 minute ride. I was able to take up three kids before thunderstorms came back. With the weather challenges we were still able to give 94 rides. Observations: The three kids I took up all requested the open cockpit. Twelve year old kids should not be as fat as me. The Cub is much easier to load/unload. I am still working on MILF Eagles to coincide with YE. Lots of pretty moms want rides. The Piet makes a great ramp presence and overall was a success as a YE flyer. It was a blast. -john- http://www.cafepress.com/half_fast John Hofmann Vice-President, Information Technology The Rees Group, Inc. 2424 American Lane Madison, WI 53704 Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150 Fax: 608.443.2474 Email: jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Young Eagles
Date: Aug 15, 2011
Very cool, John. I like your idea of MILF Eagles. Glad to see 502 Rocket getting some flight time. Jack Phillips NX899JP Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Hofmann Sent: Monday, August 15, 2011 1:10 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Young Eagles Yesterday 502Rocket and I were able to participate in flying EAA Young Eagles at the Hartford Balloon Rally. HXF is a great community airport with no fences and a welcoming attitude to the general public. Steve Krog has the Cub Air flight school there and of the 110 airplanes on the field, 85 are taildraggers. The City of Hartford and the Chamber of Commerce are really good to us so this is just a little thing we do every year to give back. Last year was my first time flying in the YE program with my Cub and I had a blast. We flew 184 kids last year. This year, I decided to give the Piet a chance to hop kids. We have had a dry summer in Wisconsin this year. In the last couple of months I can remember two weekends of rain; Brodhead and this weekend. We were supposed to run from 12 - 4 and it did not look good. The weather started to break a little after noon and couple of us went up and probed the skies. About 1:00 we had a 1,000 ft ceiling and all was a go. I took Rachel (my daughter) up so we could work out the intercom system. It never did work right. We landed and taxied to the gas pump (after avoiding the CAP goons). While I was fueling a camera crew from the local cable outlet came and interviewed me about the airplane. That was kind of fun. Kids were lining up and we had quite a few airplanes ready to go. From memory I saw 4 J3s, a PA-12, Cherokee 140, F33 Bonanza, Cherokee Archer, Taylorcraft, two Luscombes, a Robinson R-44 and one Pietenpol. Given the weather we kept it a little closer to the field and in the Piet, that meant about a 20 minute ride. I was able to take up three kids before thunderstorms came back. With the weather challenges we were still able to give 94 rides. Observations: The three kids I took up all requested the open cockpit. Twelve year old kids should not be as fat as me. The Cub is much easier to load/unload. I am still working on MILF Eagles to coincide with YE. Lots of pretty moms want rides. The Piet makes a great ramp presence and overall was a success as a YE flyer. It was a blast. -john- http://www.cafepress.com/half_fast John Hofmann Vice-President, Information Technology The Rees Group, Inc. 2424 American Lane Madison, WI 53704 Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150 Fax: 608.443.2474 Email: jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: John Hofmann <jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc.com>
Subject: Re: Young Eagles
Date: Aug 15, 2011
Hi Barry, For every kid there was a parent who wanted to go along as badly or more so than the child. The reality is any kid who wants to fly needs the backing of the parent and the money to finance it. A program for parents is a great idea. In September at Brodhead, at the GrassRoots fly-in, we are experimenting the the "Gray/Bald Eagles" idea and using it to give members rides. I think this could be very popular with pilots and adults. -john- John Hofmann Vice-President, Information Technology The Rees Group, Inc. 2424 American Lane Madison, WI 53704 Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150 Fax: 608.443.2474 Email: jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc.com On Aug 15, 2011, at 12:45 PM, Barry Davis wrote: > John > EAA is working on a new program to fly the "moms". This is very sim to the Young Eagles Program and is directed toward adults. We don't have a name for it yet (maybe we can use yours), but watch for an announcement in the near future. Good job on the YE flights. > Barry Davis > NX973BP > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Hofmann > Sent: Monday, August 15, 2011 1:10 PM > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Young Eagles > > Yesterday 502Rocket and I were able to participate in flying EAA Young Eagles at the Hartford Balloon Rally. HXF is a great community airport with no fences and a welcoming attitude to the general public. Steve Krog has the Cub Air flight school there and of the 110 airplanes on the field, 85 are taildraggers. The City of Hartford and the Chamber of Commerce are really good to us so this is just a little thing we do every year to give back. Last year was my first time flying in the YE program with my Cub and I had a blast. We flew 184 kids last year. This year, I decided to give the Piet a chance to hop kids. > > We have had a dry summer in Wisconsin this year. In the last couple of months I can remember two weekends of rain; Brodhead and this weekend. We were supposed to run from 12 - 4 and it did not look good. The weather started to break a little after noon and couple of us went up and probed the skies. About 1:00 we had a 1,000 ft ceiling and all was a go. I took Rachel (my daughter) up so we could work out the intercom system. It never did work right. We landed and taxied to the gas pump (after avoiding the CAP goons). While I was fueling a camera crew from the local cable outlet came and interviewed me about the airplane. That was kind of fun. Kids were lining up and we had quite a few airplanes ready to go. =46rom memory I saw 4 J3s, a PA-12, Cherokee 140, F33 Bonanza, Cherokee Archer, Taylorcraft, two Luscombes, a Robinson R-44 and one Pietenpol. Given the weather we kept it a little closer to the field and in the Piet, that meant about a 20 minute ride. I was able to take up three kids before thunderstorms came back. With the weather challenges we were still able to give 94 rides. > > Observations: The three kids I took up all requested the open cockpit. Twelve year old kids should not be as fat as me. The Cub is much easier to load/unload. I am still working on MILF Eagles to coincide with YE. Lots of pretty moms want rides. The Piet makes a great ramp presence and overall was a success as a YE flyer. > > It was a blast. > > -john- > > http://www.cafepress.com/half_fast > > John Hofmann > Vice-President, Information Technology > The Rees Group, Inc. > 2424 American Lane > Madison, WI 53704 > Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150 > Fax: 608.443.2474 > Email: jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc.com > > > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matr onics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gboothe5" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Thrust test
Date: Aug 15, 2011
List, With the able assistance of Southwest Captain, Dan Locker, and Southwest Pilot & Piet Builder, Curt Merdan, I conducted the static run-up / thrust test; the idea, of which, was to check the performance on my home made prop. According to Dan Helsper's finely tuned fish scale, the full run-up yielded 260 lbs. Any thoughts? Is that meaningful information? Gary ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Thrust test
From: gboothe5(at)comcast.net
Date: Aug 15, 2011
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Subject: Re: Young Eagles
From: "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net>
Date: Aug 15, 2011
I agree with all of the above... especially the MILF part. LOL! Anyhow, our chapter (10 - Tulsa) had similar results during Learn to Fly Day. Chapter 10 is based at Gundy's Airport,which is also an open fence airport that welcomes neighborhood kids and the public to come out, look around, ask questions, etc. Our event brought in ~250 people and we gave ~150 rides. 126 waivers were signed, but we know several people that took more than one ride, which we were ok with as long as others weren't waiting for their first. We had a Piet (actually Dan Cork's Grega) on display, which drew a lot of attention but was not used for rides. The big hit... a 150hp Breezy. Everyone wanted to try that thing. I must say, it is a hoot. I guess I say all of this just to reinforce the idea that the adults want to play too. We did our best to advertise on TV, radio, fliers, etc., and although we had just about as many as we could handle, we heard from several afterward that missed the event that were wondering when we would be doing it again. One thing I would like to suggest as we (EAA) discuss how to approach these new events is that national consider kicking in for fuel like they do for Young Eagles. We had a good pilot turnout (thankfully), but as prices continue to be high, some can't (or won't) afford to participate. Just something to consider that might help make these events more successful. -------- Mark Chouinard Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=349544#349544 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Thrust test
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 15, 2011
Well Gary, At that thrust I can GUARANTEE that she will fly, because as you already kn ow, that is what mine pulled on my test, with that very same fish scale. Co ngratulations!! You have a flyable airplane, and it will climb like the roc ket that NX929DH is!!! Dan Helsper Puryear, TN -----Original Message----- From: Gboothe5 <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> Sent: Mon, Aug 15, 2011 3:54 pm Subject: Pietenpol-List: Thrust test List, With the able assistance of Southwest Captain, Dan Locker, and Southwest Pi lot & Piet Builder, Curt Merdan, I conducted the static run-up / thrust tes t; the idea, of which, was to check the performance on my home made prop. A ccording to Dan Helsper=99s finely tuned fish scale, the full run-up yielded 260 lbs. Any thoughts? Is that meaningful information? Gary ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gboothe5" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Thrust test
Date: Aug 15, 2011
Thanks, Dan! You=99ve been an inspiration and a real source of good info. Curt brought a video camera, and may post a few minutes, but I think his battery went dead after 2 or 3 minutes. I had a glitch in my =98tooth counter=99 and don=99t really know what rpm I was turning, but the throttle control said, =9CFAST.=9D Wing fit takes place this weekend, then fabric. Gary From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of helspersew(at)aol.com Sent: Monday, August 15, 2011 4:27 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Thrust test Well Gary, At that thrust I can GUARANTEE that she will fly, because as you already know, that is what mine pulled on my test, with that very same fish scale. Congratulations!! You have a flyable airplane, and it will climb like the rocket that NX929DH is!!! Dan Helsper Puryear, TN -----Original Message----- From: Gboothe5 <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> Sent: Mon, Aug 15, 2011 3:54 pm Subject: Pietenpol-List: Thrust test List, With the able assistance of Southwest Captain, Dan Locker, and Southwest Pilot & Piet Builder, Curt Merdan, I conducted the static run-up / thrust test; the idea, of which, was to check the performance on my home made prop. According to Dan Helsper=99s finely tuned fish scale, the full run-up yielded 260 lbs. Any thoughts? Is that meaningful information? Gary http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Wing spar dimension question
From: "Jerry Dotson" <jdotson(at)centurylink.net>
Date: Aug 15, 2011
Dan I feel sure just a plain old butt joint with scabs on each side would so just as good. The way I see it the joint will never see any stress other than compression and tension loads. Bending stress will mean struts have failed. I did have the guys slooowly pick it up by the tips and some good ears listening for a protest from the joint. It bent/sagged about 4 inches but it went off without a hitch. Now I have to get it off the plane so I can cover it. -------- Jerry Dotson 59 Daniel Johnson Rd Baker, FL 32531 Started building NX510JD July, 2009 wing, tailfeathers done, fuselage rolling using Lycoming O-235 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=349570#349570 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 16, 2011
From: gliderx5(at)comcast.net
Subject: Re: Thrust test
Gary Your numbers are pretty much in line with what got. What engine and prop ar e you using? I put my results on http://home.comcast.net/~mmorrison123/engi ne_test.html. I was able to get 280 lbs from my Corvair and homemade prop. I asked William Wynn what I should be getting for static thrust on a Corvai r Pietenpol and he told me 350 lbs. When I told him I was getting 280 he im mediately asked if I had made my own prop, which of course I had. He pointe d out that some things are better left to the factories, that a carbon fibe r prop would out perform it and you can't see it once its turning, and that my wood prop would look great in my den :-( Anyway, I now have an IVO medu ium ground adjustable but I have not yet tried it. It will be interesting t o see the difference. What numbers are other people getting? Malcolm Morrison http://home.comcast.net/~mmorrison123/piet.html ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gboothe5" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> Sent: Monday, August 15, 2011 4:51:03 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Thrust test List, With the able assistance of Southwest Captain, Dan Locker, and Southwest Pi lot & Piet Builder, Curt Merdan, I conducted the static run-up / thrust tes t; the idea, of which, was to check the performance on my home made prop. A ccording to Dan Helsper=99s finely tuned fish scale, the full run-up yielded 260 lbs. Any thoughts? Is that meaningful information? Gary ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gboothe5" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Thrust test
Date: Aug 15, 2011
Thanks, Malcolm. Yes, mine is homemade, too. Target size was 66-34. I can still do some re-pitching. I have been looking for that info in the archives, but hadn=99t found it yet. Gary From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of gliderx5(at)comcast.net Sent: Monday, August 15, 2011 6:57 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Thrust test Gary Your numbers are pretty much in line with what got. What engine and prop are you using? I put my results on http://home.comcast.net/~mmorrison123/engine_test.html. I was able to get 280 lbs from my Corvair and homemade prop. I asked William Wynn what I should be getting for static thrust on a Corvair Pietenpol and he told me 350 lbs. When I told him I was getting 280 he immediately asked if I had made my own prop, which of course I had. He pointed out that some things are better left to the factories, that a carbon fiber prop would out perform it and you can't see it once its turning, and that my wood prop would look great in my den :-( Anyway, I now have an IVO meduium ground adjustable but I have not yet tried it. It will be interesting to see the difference. What numbers are other people getting? Malcolm Morrison http://home.comcast.net/~mmorrison123/piet.html _____ From: "Gboothe5" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> Sent: Monday, August 15, 2011 4:51:03 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Thrust test List, With the able assistance of Southwest Captain, Dan Locker, and Southwest Pilot & Piet Builder, Curt Merdan, I conducted the static run-up / thrust test; the idea, of which, was to check the performance on my home made prop. According to Dan Helsper=99s finely tuned fish scale, the full run-up yielded 260 lbs. Any thoughts? Is that meaningful information? Gary ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Young Eagles
From: "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Aug 15, 2011
The world's largest control line model airplane contest is known as the "Brodak's Fly In" in Carmichaels PA. There, for a fair number of years now, I essentially conducted a program similar to Young Eagles. I would run around and find kids and ask them if they wanted to fly. Usually, they were much to shy to ask themselves. Greatest time ever, really really really enjoyed doing that. Over time, I was granted all sorts of lee way to do that, as technically there were all sorts of contest rules that made this a big no no. I also found over time, that if the kid was just too shy, if I got mom to fly, the kid would follow. Teaching someone control line model flying is much more a contact sport than getting someone in the cockpit of a Piet! Tools Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=349589#349589 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Tail wheel assembly weight
Date: Aug 15, 2011
John (kuhlcouper) wrote- >I have this big old 10-pound tail wheel assembly. Probably too heavy right? Now John, I offered you that Matco tailwheel assembly and I don't think it weighs 10 lbs. ;o) It sure will help you get in the air quicker if you don't change too many things from the way the original builder had them, but sometimes the way that was may not have been the best thing. Lighter on the tail is always better with these airplanes, and the shim under the horizontal stabilizer is a warning flag that the airplane flew with the stick held forward until the builder added the shim in an attempt to pull the tail up. It adds trim drag and doesn't improve stability. You may want to wait till you get the airplane back on the gear or even longer, and then do a trial W&B. Study the results that William Wynne and Ryan Mueller came up with when they weighed a bunch of different Piets and variants, paying special attention to the weight on the tail when the airplane is in the level condition. Go from there on deciding what to adjust. Sure miss you guys at San Geronimo every time I see a plane pass overhead. My good old Scout is within spitting distance of your shop, but a couple of time zones away from where I'm sitting typing this so go by and give 41CC a pat on the nose for me... Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" Flying Squirrel N2069Z "Rocket" Medford, OR website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Tail wheel assembly weight
From: "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net>
Date: Aug 16, 2011
The photo of the tailwheel weighs at least ten pounds. -------- Mark Chouinard Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=349634#349634 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 16, 2011
Subject: Re: Tail wheel assembly weight
From: John Kuhfahl <kuhlcouper(at)gmail.com>
Oscar, I agree--I would get back in the air quicker if I left it as-is, but I think we all agree, the spacer is wrong. The tail is probably too heavy. It is not only my tail wheel, but the three large leaf springs. It just looks too heavy for this light bird. Remember I am installing steerable tail wheel as well. Where do I get the William/Ryan W&B data? Sounds good. Miss you here at 8T8. Please call when you come back so I can visit. Do you have someone at your hangar? I see a small blue car there. John On Mon, Aug 15, 2011 at 11:53 PM, Oscar Zuniga wrote: > > > John (kuhlcouper) wrote- > > >I have this big old 10-pound tail wheel assembly. Probably too heavy > right? > > Now John, I offered you that Matco tailwheel assembly and I don't think it > weighs 10 lbs. ;o) > > It sure will help you get in the air quicker if you don't change too many > things > from the way the original builder had them, but sometimes the way that was > may > not have been the best thing. Lighter on the tail is always better with > these > airplanes, and the shim under the horizontal stabilizer is a warning flag > that the > airplane flew with the stick held forward until the builder added the shim > in an > attempt to pull the tail up. It adds trim drag and doesn't improve > stability. > > You may want to wait till you get the airplane back on the gear or even > longer, > and then do a trial W&B. Study the results that William Wynne and Ryan > Mueller > came up with when they weighed a bunch of different Piets and variants, > paying > special attention to the weight on the tail when the airplane is in the > level > condition. Go from there on deciding what to adjust. > > Sure miss you guys at San Geronimo every time I see a plane pass overhead. > My > good old Scout is within spitting distance of your shop, but a couple of > time zones > away from where I'm sitting typing this so go by and give 41CC a pat on the > nose > for me... > > Oscar Zuniga > Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" > Flying Squirrel N2069Z "Rocket" > Medford, OR > website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > > -- John Kuhfahl, Lt Col USAF (Ret), President, KUHLCOUPER LLC ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 16, 2011
Subject: Re: Tail wheel assembly weight
From: John Kuhfahl <kuhlcouper(at)gmail.com>
Mark, That is correct--that is what I weighed it at. Notice three leaf springs? That seems a bit much. John On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 9:34 AM, K5YAC wrote: > > The photo of the tailwheel weighs at least ten pounds. > > -------- > Mark Chouinard > Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=349634#349634 > > -- John Kuhfahl, Lt Col USAF (Ret), President, KUHLCOUPER LLC ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 16, 2011
From: Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Any Piets/Piet Builders in the St Augusting, FL area?
If so, please email me offlist... Thanks! ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Thrust test
From: "Piet2112" <curtdm(at)gmail.com>
Date: Aug 16, 2011
Yesterday was the First Annual Nor-Cal Truck Pull. With a record crowd, from as far as Texas and cheers from the horse stables, first time entrant, Gary Boothe's mighty Corvair powered AirCamper ran flawlessly. With 260 lbs of thrust, it strained against the ropes trying to tame it. Without actually moving the truck, He was easily the winner! Upon post-run inspection, it was discovered, that Gary's pilot, Curt put his weight into the pull. While holding the brakes to prevent the clip-winged Piet from getting airborne, he pushed his dairy-air too hard into the back of the seat. Gary now has a Broke Back Piet. With some reinforcement, posting of pictures, detailed description and sketch-up drawings, he'll be ready for another run in less time that it takes Kevin to change a broken spoke. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=349665#349665 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/pastedgraphic_289.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Thrust test
From: gboothe5(at)comcast.net
Date: Aug 16, 2011
Ha! What would I do without friends?! Curt is right. It was all he could do to hold back the screaming mass with heel brakes. Doing so demonstrated a weak point in a x-member midway behind the pilot seat...well, that's what such events are for. Nevertheless, I have decided to put some effort into re-pitching my prop. Gary ------Original Message------ From: Piet2112 Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com ReplyTo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Thrust test Sent: Aug 16, 2011 11:54 AM Yesterday was the First Annual Nor-Cal Truck Pull. With a record crowd, from as far as Texas and cheers from the horse stables, first time entrant, Gary Boothe's mighty Corvair powered AirCamper ran flawlessly. With 260 lbs of thrust, it strained against the ropes trying to tame it. Without actually moving the truck, He was easily the winner! Upon post-run inspection, it was discovered, that Gary's pilot, Curt put his weight into the pull. While holding the brakes to prevent the clip-winged Piet from getting airborne, he pushed his dairy-air too hard into the back of the seat. Gary now has a Broke Back Piet. With some reinforcement, posting of pictures, detailed description and sketch-up drawings, he'll be ready for another run in less time that it takes Kevin to change a broken spoke. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=349665#349665 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/pastedgraphic_289.jpg Sent on the Sprint Now Network from my BlackBerry ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Industrial fish scale
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 16, 2011
Gary Boothe, Please keep that fish scale so you can measure your thrust again after the re-pitch. Dan Helsper Puryear, TN ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Industrial fish scale
From: gboothe5(at)comcast.net
Date: Aug 16, 2011
VGhhbmtzLCBEYW4uIEkgdGhpbmsgV1cgd291bGQgcHJlZmVyIGZvciBtZSB0byBzdGFydCB3aXRo IHNvbWV0aGluZyBtb3JlIGNvbnZlbnRpb25hbCwgYnV0IEkgY2FuJ3QganVzdCBnaXZlIHVwIGFm dGVyIHRoZSBmaXJzdCBnby1yb3VuZCEgUmUtcGl0Y2hpbmcgc2hvdWxkIGJlIGludGVyZXN0aW5n Li4uDQoNCkdhcnkNClNlbnQgb24gdGhlIFNwcmludK4gTm93IE5ldHdvcmsgZnJvbSBteSBCbGFj a0JlcnJ5rg0KDQotLS0tLU9yaWdpbmFsIE1lc3NhZ2UtLS0tLQ0KRnJvbTogaGVsc3BlcnNld0Bh b2wuY29tDQpTZW5kZXI6IG93bmVyLXBpZXRlbnBvbC1saXN0LXNlcnZlckBtYXRyb25pY3MuY29t DQpEYXRlOiBUdWUsIDE2IEF1ZyAyMDExIDE2OjI2OjMyIA0KVG86IDxwaWV0ZW5wb2wtbGlzdEBt YXRyb25pY3MuY29tPg0KUmVwbHktVG86IHBpZXRlbnBvbC1saXN0QG1hdHJvbmljcy5jb21TdWJq ZWN0OiBQaWV0ZW5wb2wtTGlzdDogSW5kdXN0cmlhbCBmaXNoIHNjYWxlDQoNCg0KR2FyeSBCb290 aGUsDQoNClBsZWFzZSBrZWVwIHRoYXQgZmlzaCBzY2FsZSBzbyB5b3UgY2FuIG1lYXN1cmUgeW91 ciB0aHJ1c3QgYWdhaW4gYWZ0ZXIgdGhlIHJlLXBpdGNoLg0KDQpEYW4gSGVsc3Blcg0KUHVyeWVh ciwgVE4NCg0KDQoNCg0K ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gboothe5" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Subject: You know it's a good Piet day when...
Date: Aug 16, 2011
These guys landed between high voltage lines, about 200 yds apart, and right next to a freeway on ramp! Gary -----Original Message----- From: gboothe5(at)comcast.net [mailto:gboothe5(at)comcast.net] Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2011 1:56 PM Subject: IMG-20110816-00089.jpg Sent on the SprintR Now Network from my BlackBerryR ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Tail wheel assembly weight
From: "kevinpurtee" <kevin.purtee(at)us.army.mil>
Date: Aug 16, 2011
Hi John - I use two leaf springs to good effect. Another subject: came by san geronimo a few weekends ago for the eaa breakfast. Not a soul to be found. Guess I should've called before making the trip. -------- Kevin "Axel" Purtee NX899KP Austin/Georgetown, TX Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=349720#349720 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 17, 2011
Subject: Re: Tail wheel assembly weight
From: John Kuhfahl <kuhlcouper(at)gmail.com>
Kevin, Thanks on the two leafs. Can I see your bird someday? If you are ever back here, stop by. Sorry "bout the breakfast--it was cancelled due to "higher priority"--not my idea. John 210 365 0120 On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 10:40 PM, kevinpurtee wrote: > kevin.purtee(at)us.army.mil> > > Hi John - I use two leaf springs to good effect. > > Another subject: came by san geronimo a few weekends ago for the eaa > breakfast. Not a soul to be found. Guess I should've called before making > the trip. > > -------- > Kevin "Axel" Purtee > NX899KP > Austin/Georgetown, TX > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=349720#349720 > > -- John Kuhfahl, Lt Col USAF (Ret), President, KUHLCOUPER LLC ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 17, 2011
Subject: Marine Stainless Steel Hardware
From: John Kuhfahl <kuhlcouper(at)gmail.com>
We are experimenting safely right? I am the one looking for Turnbuckles for Tail Bracing. Marine grade turnbuckles rated just like the AN type are available for half the cost. Anyone ever try them? Just thinking outside the box. John -- John Kuhfahl, Lt Col USAF (Ret), President, KUHLCOUPER LLC ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 17, 2011
From: Ben Charvet <bencharvet(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Marine Stainless Steel Hardware
You can get the aircraft grade from B&B for around $8 each, and I doubt you could buy a similar rated sailboat turnbuckle that cheap. Most boat items require swaged fittings too, to you'd have to add that cost to the total. Just my $.02 Ben On 8/17/2011 6:55 AM, John Kuhfahl wrote: > We are experimenting safely right? I am the one looking for > Turnbuckles for Tail Bracing. Marine grade turnbuckles rated just like > the AN type are available for half the cost. Anyone ever try them? > Just thinking outside the box. John > > -- > John Kuhfahl, Lt Col USAF (Ret), > President, KUHLCOUPER LLC > * > > > * -- Ben Charvet, PharmD Staff Pharmacist Parrish Medical center ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 17, 2011
From: Ben Charvet <bencharvet(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: You know it's a good Piet day when...
You know its a good Piet day, when you see something in the air besides a bird that you can catch up with...... Ben \On 8/16/2011 5:03 PM, Gboothe5 wrote: > These guys landed between high voltage lines, about 200 yds apart, and right > next to a freeway on ramp! > > Gary > > -----Original Message----- > From: gboothe5(at)comcast.net [mailto:gboothe5(at)comcast.net] > Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2011 1:56 PM > To: Gary Boothe > Subject: IMG-20110816-00089.jpg > > > Sent on the SprintR Now Network from my BlackBerryR -- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 17, 2011
Subject: Re: Marine Stainless Steel Hardware
From: John Kuhfahl <kuhlcouper(at)gmail.com>
Ben, Appreciate the quick response. Is that B&B in Kansas? They don't have any. Do you have a contact # ? Thanks, John On Wed, Aug 17, 2011 at 7:15 AM, Ben Charvet wrote: > You can get the aircraft grade from B&B for around $8 each, and I doubt > you could buy a similar rated sailboat turnbuckle that cheap. Most boat > items require swaged fittings too, to you'd have to add that cost to the > total. Just my $.02 > > Ben > > > On 8/17/2011 6:55 AM, John Kuhfahl wrote: > > We are experimenting safely right? I am the one looking for Turnbuckles for > Tail Bracing. Marine grade turnbuckles rated just like the AN type are > available for half the cost. Anyone ever try them? Just thinking outside > the box. John > > -- > John Kuhfahl, Lt Col USAF (Ret), > President, KUHLCOUPER LLC > > * > > * > > > -- > Ben Charvet, PharmD > Staff Pharmacist > Parrish Medical center > > * > > * > > -- John Kuhfahl, Lt Col USAF (Ret), President, KUHLCOUPER LLC ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jeff Wilson <jlwilsonnn(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Marine Stainless Steel Hardware
Date: Aug 17, 2011
I have checked into those but the ones I found were Too large and heavy. Sent from my iPhone On Aug 17, 2011, at 5:55 AM, John Kuhfahl wrote: > We are experimenting safely right? I am the one looking for Turnbuckles fo r Tail Bracing. Marine grade turnbuckles rated just like the AN type are ava ilable for half the cost. Anyone ever try them? Just thinking outside the b ox. John > > -- > John Kuhfahl, Lt Col USAF (Ret), > President, KUHLCOUPER LLC > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 17, 2011
From: Dan Yocum <yocum137(at)gmail.com>
Subject: external static port
Hi all, I finally got my new static and pitot system hooked up and lo and behold it's not quite working as I expect it to. The static port just isn't working right - it's providing a source of ram air instead of static air. This is the system I'm using from ACS: http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/inpages/unheatedptubes3.php Maybe the static port isn't parallel to the air flow - I'll try re-aligning it. But, in any case, is anyone else using an external static port, or is everyone just leaving the static ports open on the back of their instruments? Thanks, Dan ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 17, 2011
Subject: Re: Marine Stainless Steel Hardware
From: John Kuhfahl <kuhlcouper(at)gmail.com>
Jeff, Thanks--let me re-check that--I thought I found some...John On Wed, Aug 17, 2011 at 9:24 AM, Jeff Wilson wrote: > I have checked into those but the ones I found were > Too large and heavy. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Aug 17, 2011, at 5:55 AM, John Kuhfahl wrote: > > We are experimenting safely right? I am the one looking for Turnbuckles for > Tail Bracing. Marine grade turnbuckles rated just like the AN type are > available for half the cost. Anyone ever try them? Just thinking outside > the box. John > > -- > John Kuhfahl, Lt Col USAF (Ret), > President, KUHLCOUPER LLC > > * > > * > > * > > * > > -- John Kuhfahl, Lt Col USAF (Ret), President, KUHLCOUPER LLC ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: external static port
From: "kevinpurtee" <kevin.purtee(at)us.army.mil>
Date: Aug 17, 2011
Dan - Tried both ways and the results were identical. Left it vented inside the instrument panel and the actual static port is filling a hole hooked to nothing. -------- Kevin "Axel" Purtee NX899KP Austin/Georgetown, TX Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=349753#349753 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Idea about front cockpit side door
From: "giacummo" <mario.giacummo(at)gmail.com>
Date: Aug 17, 2011
Hello, I know this topic was discussed before; but I just want discuss an idea about it. I agree that cut a longeron is a bad solution/idea/etc, the fuselage look so clean with them.. but the big problem when cut one is the lost of compression and tension fuselage the longerons hold . The solutions I saw for this in the web was reinforce the side panels a lot whit others wood pieces, etc; but I ask, it is possible to restore the longeron integrity with a kind of join that we can put and take out easily? I thought in this draw I did, one side of the central piece (it could be square iron tube) attached to one end, and the other we can fixed with a couple of bolts. It will give us a little work open and close it, but I think the stiffnes of all the piece could be restored with something like this.... ;o) what do you think? any comments? regards -------- Mario Giacummo http://vgmk1.blogspot.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=349755#349755 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/longeron_175.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 17, 2011
From: Ben Charvet <bencharvet(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Marine Stainless Steel Hardware
I don't think they have a website, but their phone number is 913-884-5930. They are usually at Oshkosh and Sun-N-Fun too. If he is out of stock it would be worth waiting for him to get them in. Get the part numbers from Aircraft Spruce before you give him a call. Ben On 8/17/2011 9:21 AM, John Kuhfahl wrote: > Ben, > Appreciate the quick response. Is that B&B in Kansas? They don't have > any. Do you have a contact # ? Thanks, John > > On Wed, Aug 17, 2011 at 7:15 AM, Ben Charvet > wrote: > > You can get the aircraft grade from B&B for around $8 each, and I > doubt you could buy a similar rated sailboat turnbuckle that > cheap. Most boat items require swaged fittings too, to you'd have > to add that cost to the total. Just my $.02 > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack" <jack(at)textors.com>
Subject: Re: Marine Stainless Steel Hardware
Date: Aug 17, 2011
John here is their site http://www.bbaircraftsupplies.com/homepage you might also try eBay. Jack DSM _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Kuhfahl Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2011 8:21 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Marine Stainless Steel Hardware Ben, Appreciate the quick response. Is that B&B in Kansas? They don't have any. Do you have a contact # ? Thanks, John On Wed, Aug 17, 2011 at 7:15 AM, Ben Charvet wrote: You can get the aircraft grade from B&B for around $8 each, and I doubt you could buy a similar rated sailboat turnbuckle that cheap. Most boat items require swaged fittings too, to you'd have to add that cost to the total. Just my $.02 Ben On 8/17/2011 6:55 AM, John Kuhfahl wrote: We are experimenting safely right? I am the one looking for Turnbuckles for Tail Bracing. Marine grade turnbuckles rated just like the AN type are available for half the cost. Anyone ever try them? Just thinking outside the box. John -- John Kuhfahl, Lt Col USAF (Ret), President, KUHLCOUPER LLC -- Ben Charvet, PharmD Staff Pharmacist Parrish Medical center " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List tp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution -- John Kuhfahl, Lt Col USAF (Ret), President, KUHLCOUPER LLC ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 17, 2011
From: Ben Charvet <bencharvet(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Idea about front cockpit side door
Looks like it would work, but by the time you got your passenger bolted in they would feel like an astronaut. One advantage of the lack of door is you can be more selective of your passengers. I've flown four 80 year olds in mine, and a few of them needed help getting in and out, but if you put a step on your landing gear legs, it can be done. Ben On 8/17/2011 12:19 PM, giacummo wrote: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=349755#349755 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 17, 2011
From: Ben Charvet <bencharvet(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: external static port
I have a fitting with a small hole drilled in it screwed into the static port, and it works fine. Sometimes simpler is better. Ben On 8/17/2011 11:53 AM, Dan Yocum wrote: > > Hi all, > > I finally got my new static and pitot system hooked up and lo and > behold it's not quite working as I expect it to. The static port just > isn't working right - it's providing a source of ram air instead of > static air. This is the system I'm using from ACS: > > http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/inpages/unheatedptubes3.php > > Maybe the static port isn't parallel to the air flow - I'll try > re-aligning it. > > But, in any case, is anyone else using an external static port, or is > everyone just leaving the static ports open on the back of their > instruments? > > Thanks, > Dan > > -- Ben Charvet, PharmD Staff Pharmacist Parrish Medical center ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 17, 2011
From: Ben Charvet <bencharvet(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Thomasville Ga Fly-in?
Anybody ever been the the Thomasville Fly-in in October? Looks like a great two leg flight for me, and the wife has even offered to come along. It would be a great prelude for a trip to Brodhead, since its in the same direction. http://www.thomasvilleflyin.com/ -- Ben Charvet, PharmD Staff Pharmacist Parrish Medical center ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 17, 2011
Subject: Re: Marine Stainless Steel Hardware
From: John Kuhfahl <kuhlcouper(at)gmail.com>
Ben, Thanks--I contacted them--they are looking. John On Wed, Aug 17, 2011 at 12:22 PM, Ben Charvet wrote: > I don't think they have a website, but their phone number is 913-884-5930. > They are usually at Oshkosh and Sun-N-Fun too. If he is out of stock it > would be worth waiting for him to get them in. Get the part numbers from > Aircraft Spruce before you give him a call. > > Ben > > On 8/17/2011 9:21 AM, John Kuhfahl wrote: > > Ben, > Appreciate the quick response. Is that B&B in Kansas? They don't have > any. Do you have a contact # ? Thanks, John > > On Wed, Aug 17, 2011 at 7:15 AM, Ben Charvet wrote: > >> You can get the aircraft grade from B&B for around $8 each, and I doubt >> you could buy a similar rated sailboat turnbuckle that cheap. Most boat >> items require swaged fittings too, to you'd have to add that cost to the >> total. Just my $.02 >> >> * > > > = > * > > -- John Kuhfahl, Lt Col USAF (Ret), President, KUHLCOUPER LLC ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 17, 2011
From: airlion <airlion(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: external static port
Are you sure that you plugged the tubes in to the right holes? I had the same problem and lo and behold I had them backward. And I never make mistakes. Gardiner ----- Original Message ---- From: Dan Yocum <yocum137(at)gmail.com> Sent: Wed, August 17, 2011 11:53:21 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: external static port Hi all, I finally got my new static and pitot system hooked up and lo and behold it's not quite working as I expect it to. The static port just isn't working right - it's providing a source of ram air instead of static air. This is the system I'm using from ACS: http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/inpages/unheatedptubes3.php Maybe the static port isn't parallel to the air flow - I'll try re-aligning it. But, in any case, is anyone else using an external static port, or is everyone just leaving the static ports open on the back of their instruments? Thanks, Dan ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 17, 2011
From: airlion <airlion(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Thomasville Ga Fly-in?
/Thomasville fly in is a great place to g. Good toilet and shower facilities, good food, and good people. I have been 3 times and plan on being there in October . Look for me in my Cessna 140. Gardiner Mason ----- Original Message ---- From: Ben Charvet <bencharvet(at)gmail.com> Sent: Wed, August 17, 2011 1:34:20 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Thomasville Ga Fly-in? Anybody ever been the the Thomasville Fly-in in October? Looks like a great two leg flight for me, and the wife has even offered to come along. It would be a great prelude for a trip to Brodhead, since its in the same direction. http://www.thomasvilleflyin.com/ -- Ben Charvet, PharmD Staff Pharmacist Parrish Medical center ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Idea about front cockpit side door
From: "womenfly2" <Love2Fly.KAP(at)gmail.com>
Date: Aug 17, 2011
You need to calculate the transitional loads through the frame structure, one section will effect the rest. If you do not do the math, I would not do it. Failure in the air is not an option. -------- Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=349773#349773 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 17, 2011
From: Ben Charvet <bencharvet(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: external static port
Gardiner, Its good to see you haven't lost your sense of humor! Ben n 8/17/2011 1:58 PM, airlion wrote: > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: airlion > > Are you sure that you plugged the tubes in to the right holes? I had the same > problem and lo and behold I had them backward. And I never make mistakes. > Gardiner > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Dan Yocum<yocum137(at)gmail.com> > To: "pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com" > Sent: Wed, August 17, 2011 11:53:21 AM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: external static port > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Dan Yocum > > Hi all, > > I finally got my new static and pitot system hooked up and lo and behold it's > not quite working as I expect it to. The static port just isn't working right - > it's providing a source of ram air instead of static air. This is the system > I'm using from ACS: > > http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/inpages/unheatedptubes3.php > > Maybe the static port isn't parallel to the air flow - I'll try re-aligning it. > > But, in any case, is anyone else using an external static port, or is everyone > just leaving the static ports open on the back of their instruments? > > Thanks, > Dan > > -- Ben Charvet, PharmD Staff Pharmacist Parrish Medical center ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 17, 2011
From: Dan Yocum <yocum137(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: external static port
On 08/17/2011 12:58 PM, airlion wrote: > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: airlion > > Are you sure that you plugged the tubes in to the right holes? I had the same > problem and lo and behold I had them backward. And I never make mistakes. > Gardiner Yep, that's one thing I'm sure of. The ASI *is* registering, but it's registering much lower than I expected, and the VSI was showing a constant 2000fpm dive state even when I was climbing. Unhooking the tube to the static source behind the instrument panel brought things back into line, but still pretty far off - just like it was with the old pitot system. I was hoping that the original problem I was trying to solve was leaky plumbing, but now it looks like the ASI is broken: indicated 50mph on the ASI is really about 60mph. 65mph is about 85mph. I can use it with these numbers since I know the offset, but I'd rather have it be accurate. I still need to finish my Johnson ASI that the EAA published plans for in Sport Aviation. Gerry Holland in the UK has his static port near the tail (thanks for the pict, Gerry). This is the same arrangement that a few glass gliders that I know of, but I was under the impression that this can't be done on a power AC because of the induced airspeed from the prop. Anyway, back to the drawing board. Thanks! Dan ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Idea about front cockpit side door
From: "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca>
Date: Aug 17, 2011
Mario, There are no dimensions given in your sketch, so it's really impossible to give a definitive, true answer, but in general, I'd say that this is not a feasible design. First off, it looks as though there are a number of bolts located very close to the ends of the wood pieces. That is not a good design practice, as the bolts will just pull through the wood. Secondly, very short fittings as you have drawn, would result in concentrated stresses on the wood at the fittings. And thirdly, the practicality of such an arrangement, where a door must be secured with bolts that need to be removed to get in to the seat, then reinstalled, and tightened properly before flight, then repeated again after flight, is much too cumbersome to be considered an advantage. The likelihood of the bolts not being secured properly EVERY time is extremely high. Bill C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=349780#349780 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 17, 2011
From: Dan Yocum <yocum137(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: external static port
Axel, When you had the static port outside, what kind did you have and where was it placed/arranged? It's just odd to me that this one is generating ram pressure. Thanks, Dan On 08/17/2011 11:06 AM, kevinpurtee wrote: > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "kevinpurtee" > > Dan - Tried both ways and the results were identical. Left it vented inside the instrument panel and the actual static port is filling a hole hooked to nothing. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: external static port
Date: Aug 17, 2011
Dan, I'm using a static port. Don't know if it's any real benefit from just leaving the ports open on the back of the instruments. Maybe I should try opening them up - I might get more airspeed and get to Brodhead in 10 hours instead of 12 :-) Jack Phillips NX899JP Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dan Yocum Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2011 11:53 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: external static port Hi all, I finally got my new static and pitot system hooked up and lo and behold it's not quite working as I expect it to. The static port just isn't working right - it's providing a source of ram air instead of static air. This is the system I'm using from ACS: http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/inpages/unheatedptubes3.php Maybe the static port isn't parallel to the air flow - I'll try re-aligning it. But, in any case, is anyone else using an external static port, or is everyone just leaving the static ports open on the back of their instruments? Thanks, Dan ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Pietenpol Sky Scout 10718
From: "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org>
Date: Aug 17, 2011
Alright guys, I've been trying to find that plane for some time now. It is one of the two scouts that Bernie built. One of them had the model A (it's in Australia now) and this one had the Model T in it. The story I get is that a neighbor challenged Bernie to to fly the Model T engine. This is the plane he did it with. Chris rebuilt the plane using everything he could from the original airframe. I think he saved about 20 percent of wood and built the rest new. Chris also lightened up the engine as much as he could buy replacing as many bolts as he could with aluminum ones and putting on an aluminum head. He also replaced the big heavy wheels with the ones you see. When Chris died the engine was at his house in Reseda CA and the plane was at El mirage dry lake bed in the high desert in CA. Therefor the engine and plane got separated. Both disappeared until now. Back in 1996 when I was at Brodhead, Gar Williams let me fly his Scout which was the A powered one that Bernie built. About two months later when I flew out to the lake bed to see Chris he asked me if I would like to fly his scout. I jumped at the chance. It was very tail heavy and the lake bed is about 2500 feet above sea level. It was a short flight (about 10 minutes) and it didn't climb to good with only20 HP. Anyway it's in my log book. Gar's airplane was like flying a sports car. I'd like to have Chris's plane if he ever wanted to sell it. Chris was a neat guy. He did have a hand with the batmobile and he was also an avid bike rider. He rode his bicycle across the USA several time that I know of. Anyway, thanks for the pics. Tell the guy he has a buyer for it should he want to sell it. -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=349787#349787 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: external static port
Date: Aug 17, 2011
Ports are near the tail on either side of the fuselage on many Cessnas and on all RV's Jack Phillips NX899JP Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dan Yocum Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2011 3:53 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: external static port On 08/17/2011 12:58 PM, airlion wrote: > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: airlion > > Are you sure that you plugged the tubes in to the right holes? I had the same > problem and lo and behold I had them backward. And I never make mistakes. > Gardiner Yep, that's one thing I'm sure of. The ASI *is* registering, but it's registering much lower than I expected, and the VSI was showing a constant 2000fpm dive state even when I was climbing. Unhooking the tube to the static source behind the instrument panel brought things back into line, but still pretty far off - just like it was with the old pitot system. I was hoping that the original problem I was trying to solve was leaky plumbing, but now it looks like the ASI is broken: indicated 50mph on the ASI is really about 60mph. 65mph is about 85mph. I can use it with these numbers since I know the offset, but I'd rather have it be accurate. I still need to finish my Johnson ASI that the EAA published plans for in Sport Aviation. Gerry Holland in the UK has his static port near the tail (thanks for the pict, Gerry). This is the same arrangement that a few glass gliders that I know of, but I was under the impression that this can't be done on a power AC because of the induced airspeed from the prop. Anyway, back to the drawing board. Thanks! Dan ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Pietenpol Sky Scout 10718
From: "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net>
Date: Aug 17, 2011
Neat story Scott... I'll print this thread and pass it along to Fred the next time I see him. -------- Mark Chouinard Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=349790#349790 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Pietenpol Sky Scout 10718
From: "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org>
Date: Aug 17, 2011
Thanks, After going back and looking at the photos again I must admit that I am wrong on those wheels. It had balloon tires on it when I flew it. Someone has changed them since Chris died. It looks solid enough to rebuild again. -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=349793#349793 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Pietenpol Sky Scout 10718
From: "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net>
Date: Aug 17, 2011
According to the model T forums, this is a photo taken after Chris restored 10718. Here is a link to the thread where I found this photo. http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/118802/155754.html?1282697798 -------- Mark Chouinard Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=349795#349795 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Pietenpol Sky Scout 10718
From: "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org>
Date: Aug 17, 2011
I think that is at Brodhead. He towed it there and assembled it for display. Not sure if anyone flew it when it was there. I guess he did have those wheels on it. I must be getting old. Memories, -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=349797#349797 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: external static port
From: Hans Van Der Voort <hvandervoo(at)aol.com>
Date: Aug 17, 2011
Dan, That is the same one I am using. Mine is mounted under the wing inboard of the LH wing strut attachment, out side the prop blast I have never notice a abnormal change when slipping the plane (not aligned with the airflow). Only have Altimeter and ASI connected. Did you check if the pitot is not leaking in to the static port. The design is fairly crude and some of the welding could have created a pin hole. Hans NX15KV -----Original Message----- From: Dan Yocum <yocum137(at)gmail.com> Sent: Wed, Aug 17, 2011 10:56 am Subject: Pietenpol-List: external static port Hi all, I finally got my new static and pitot system hooked up and lo and behold it's not quite working as I expect it to. The static port just isn't working right - it's providing a source of ram air instead of static air. This is the system I'm using from ACS: http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/inpages/unheatedptubes3.php Maybe the static port isn't parallel to the air flow - I'll try re-aligning it. But, in any case, is anyone else using an external static port, or is everyone just leaving the static ports open on the back of their instruments? Thanks, Dan ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Two Part Post- need help in SE Ohio looking at a fuselage
From: "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Aug 17, 2011
To the forum- I have found a welded steel tube fuselage on Barnstormers. http://barnstormers.com/listing.php?id=578491 He has sent me pictures which I can upload if anyone is interested. The seller says he is a welder by profession and TIG welded it about 5 years ago and stopped at that point. he is building something with an enclosed cockpit as he decided it was too cold up there to fly the Piet year round. Here are my questions- 1. What are the pluses and minuses of the steel tube fuse? 2. I just do not know value, but $1000 dollars seems like a good price. Your thoughts? 3. I am a little nervous sending a Grand to someone I do not know for something sight unseen. Are there any forum members that are in the SE Ohio area that might be able to go take a look for me? I would be happy to reimburse for a tank of 100LL if someone s looking to do something other than a $100 hamburger. The fuse is in Washington WV, about 35 miles east of Athens OH. If you want to email me off-forum you can at jarheadpilot82 (at) hotmail (dot) com. Thanks in advance for your advice and help. -------- Semper Fi, Terry Hand Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=349805#349805 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Pietenpol Sky Scout 10718
From: "BYD" <billsayre(at)ymail.com>
Date: Aug 17, 2011
Here's a picture of the Grand PooBah and his flying machine after restoration. I miss that character! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=349806#349806 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/chris_873.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Two Part Post- need help in SE Ohio looking at a fuselage
From: "BYD" <billsayre(at)ymail.com>
Date: Aug 17, 2011
Pro About 35 pounds lighter than wood. Con Prints are drawn for wood i.e. mounting things gets to be an exercise. You cant just glue a reinforcing block and screw to it however, adding tabs for things like seat-belts are easy if you can weld. Note Check pictures for lots of tabs (for mounting seats etc). Hopefully, hes dosed the inside of the tubes with linseed oil to prevent internal rusting. Obtain metal fuselage supplemental drawing (if you dont have one) and compare truss layout. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=349807#349807 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 17, 2011
From: airlion <airlion(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Two Part Post- need help in SE Ohio looking at a fuselage
Terry, you should call Barry Davis of the Carrollton EAA for questions on steel tube. They built 6 0f em. His phone is 770 301 8087 after 10 AM. Cheers, Gardiner Mason ----- Original Message ---- From: jarheadpilot82 <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com> Sent: Wed, August 17, 2011 6:34:31 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Two Part Post- need help in SE Ohio looking at a fuselage To the forum- I have found a welded steel tube fuselage on Barnstormers. http://barnstormers.com/listing.php?id=578491 He has sent me pictures which I can upload if anyone is interested. The seller says he is a welder by profession and TIG welded it about 5 years ago and stopped at that point. he is building something with an enclosed cockpit as he decided it was too cold up there to fly the Piet year round. Here are my questions- 1. What are the pluses and minuses of the steel tube fuse? 2. I just do not know value, but $1000 dollars seems like a good price. Your thoughts? 3. I am a little nervous sending a Grand to someone I do not know for something sight unseen. Are there any forum members that are in the SE Ohio area that might be able to go take a look for me? I would be happy to reimburse for a tank of 100LL if someone s looking to do something other than a $100 hamburger. The fuse is in Washington WV, about 35 miles east of Athens OH. If you want to email me off-forum you can at jarheadpilot82 (at) hotmail (dot) com. Thanks in advance for your advice and help. -------- Semper Fi, Terry Hand Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=349805#349805 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kip and Beth Gardner <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Two Part Post- need help in SE Ohio looking at a fuselage
Date: Aug 17, 2011
Hi Terry, This is about a 2-1/2 hr. drive south of me. My only concern is that I'm no judge of welding quality, especially the ins & outs of what's good aircraft practice. $1000 sounds like a decent price - fuse only? Kip Gardner On Aug 17, 2011, at 6:34 PM, jarheadpilot82 wrote: > > > > To the forum- > > I have found a welded steel tube fuselage on Barnstormers. > > http://barnstormers.com/listing.php?id=578491 > > He has sent me pictures which I can upload if anyone is interested. > The seller says he is a welder by profession and TIG welded it about > 5 years ago and stopped at that point. he is building something with > an enclosed cockpit as he decided it was too cold up there to fly > the Piet year round. > > Here are my questions- > > 1. What are the pluses and minuses of the steel tube fuse? > 2. I just do not know value, but $1000 dollars seems like a good > price. Your thoughts? > 3. I am a little nervous sending a Grand to someone I do not know > for something sight unseen. Are there any forum members that are in > the SE Ohio area that might be able to go take a look for me? I > would be happy to reimburse for a tank of 100LL if someone s looking > to do something other than a $100 hamburger. The fuse is in > Washington WV, about 35 miles east of Athens OH. > > If you want to email me off-forum you can at jarheadpilot82 (at) > hotmail (dot) com. > Thanks in advance for your advice and help. > > -------- > Semper Fi, > > Terry Hand > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=349805#349805 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Terry Hand <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Two Part Post- need help in SE Ohio looking at a fuselage
Date: Aug 17, 2011
Fuse, tailwheel, gear struts, and control column. Almost too good to be true. I will send you pictures. Semper Fidelis, Terry Hand Sent from my iPhone On Aug 17, 2011, at 20:58, Kip and Beth Gardner wrote: > > Hi Terry, > > This is about a 2-1/2 hr. drive south of me. My only concern is that I'm no judge of welding quality, especially the ins & outs of what's good aircraft practice. $1000 sounds like a decent price - fuse only? > > Kip Gardner > > On Aug 17, 2011, at 6:34 PM, jarheadpilot82 wrote: > >> >> To the forum- >> >> I have found a welded steel tube fuselage on Barnstormers. >> >> http://barnstormers.com/listing.php?id=578491 >> >> He has sent me pictures which I can upload if anyone is interested. The seller says he is a welder by profession and TIG welded it about 5 years ago and stopped at that point. he is building something with an enclosed cockpit as he decided it was too cold up there to fly the Piet year round. >> >> Here are my questions- >> >> 1. What are the pluses and minuses of the steel tube fuse? >> 2. I just do not know value, but $1000 dollars seems like a good price. Your thoughts? >> 3. I am a little nervous sending a Grand to someone I do not know for something sight unseen. Are there any forum members that are in the SE Ohio area that might be able to go take a look for me? I would be happy to reimburse for a tank of 100LL if someone s looking to do something other than a $100 hamburger. The fuse is in Washington WV, about 35 miles east of Athens OH. >> >> If you want to email me off-forum you can at jarheadpilot82 (at) hotmail (dot) com. >> Thanks in advance for your advice and help. >> >> -------- >> Semper Fi, >> >> Terry Hand >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=349805#349805 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: external static port
From: "BYD" <billsayre(at)ymail.com>
Date: Aug 17, 2011
I'm planning one (static port) on each side of the combing (opposite sides of fuselage from each other) joined together to cancel each other out. A T in the middle then goes to the instruments. We'll see. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=349827#349827 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Pietenpol Sky Scout 10718
From: "Baldeagle" <baldeagle27(at)earthlink.net>
Date: Aug 17, 2011
As is stated in the Facebook link, the Scout has already been donated to the Model T Ford Museum in Centerville, IN. - Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=349829#349829 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Pietenpol Sky Scout 10718
From: "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net>
Date: Aug 17, 2011
Baldeagle wrote: > As is stated in the Facebook link, the Scout has already been donated to the Model T Ford Museum in Centerville, IN. > > > > > - That's what Fred told me... I may ask just to make sure that I heard him right. -------- Mark Chouinard Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=349831#349831 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 18, 2011
From: Dan Yocum <yocum137(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: external static port
Hi Hans, On 08/17/2011 04:17 PM, Hans Van Der Voort wrote: > Did you check if the pitot is not leaking in to the static port. > The design is fairly crude and some of the welding could have created a > pin hole. Oh, I didn't even think of that. That would certainly account for the ram pressure on the static side, and the low airspeed on the pitot. I'll check it for leaks next time I'm at the airport. Thanks! Dan ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "skipgadd(at)earthlink.net" <skipgadd(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Two Part Post- need help in SE Ohio looking at a fuselage
Date: Aug 18, 2011
Terry, Actually that fuze is located at Hales Landing WV(2WV3). Mike has another residence in Washington WV. I took the golf cart down to Mikes hangar and looked at the fuze just now. Mike is a great welder, all welds appear professional. All tabs that he could think of are on except the elevator bell crank, the plans don't show tabs. He has not injected tube oil. The fuze is made to plans, correct tube size and all except he used 4130 in place of mild steel. The steel tube Pietenpol plans are for the 13' 5", Flying and glider size fuselage. Mike is my neighbor, that being said I think anybody who looked at this fuze would think it is a great deal as I do. You could not buy the steel and argon to build this for the price, and you would have to be a really good welder. Feel free to email me on or off list. Skip > [Original Message] > From: jarheadpilot82 <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com> > To: > Date: 8/17/2011 6:39:30 PM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Two Part Post- need help in SE Ohio looking at a fuselage > > > To the forum- > > I have found a welded steel tube fuselage on Barnstormers. > He has sent me pictures which I can upload if anyone is interested. The seller says he is a welder by profession and TIG welded it about 5 years ago and stopped at that point. he is building something with an enclosed cockpit as he decided it was too cold up there to fly the Piet year round. > > Here are my questions- > > 1. What are the pluses and minuses of the steel tube fuse? > 2. I just do not know value, but $1000 dollars seems like a good price. Your thoughts? > 3. I am a little nervous sending a Grand to someone I do not know for something sight unseen. Are there any forum members that are in the SE Ohio area that might be able to go take a look for me? I would be happy to reimburse for a tank of 100LL if someone s looking to do something other than a $100 hamburger. The fuse is in Washington WV, about 35 miles east of Athens OH. > > If you want to email me off-forum you can at jarheadpilot82 (at) hotmail (dot) com. > Thanks in advance for your advice and help. > > -------- > Semper Fi, > > Terry Hand ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Idea about front cockpit side door
From: "giacummo" <mario.giacummo(at)gmail.com>
Date: Aug 18, 2011
Bill, I agree with you, open and closing with bolts it's an uncomfortable idea, but I think (I did't see any statistic about) that the major time the piets fly with just the pilot.. about dimenssions, of course, it just an idea, not a design. I do not messure anything yet, i am going to do it.. so from yours three points I am going to see 2, the lenght of the fitting, and how to fix the square tube to the wood without damage to much de longeron. -------- Mario Giacummo http://vgmk1.blogspot.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=349859#349859 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Idea about front cockpit side door
From: "womenfly2" <Love2Fly.KAP(at)gmail.com>
Date: Aug 18, 2011
giacummo ... what you are doing here is a very unsafe and uncalculated engineered design. ... but what do I know. -------- Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=349861#349861 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Doug Dever <chiefpepperhead(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Idea about front cockpit side door
Date: Aug 18, 2011
If you want a door=2C why not just use Kerri Ann's plans. Proven design. Just my .02 Doug Dever In beautiful Stow Ohio > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Idea about front cockpit side door > From: mario.giacummo(at)gmail.com > Date: Thu=2C 18 Aug 2011 09:09:21 -0700 > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > m> > > Bill=2C > > I agree with you=2C open and closing with bolts it's an uncomfortable ide a=2C but I think (I did't see any statistic about) that the major time the piets fly with just the pilot.. about dimenssions=2C of course=2C it just a n idea=2C not a design. > I do not messure anything yet=2C i am going to do it.. so from yours thre e points I am going to see 2=2C the lenght of the fitting=2C and how to fix the square tube to the wood without damage to much de longeron. > > -------- > Mario Giacummo > http://vgmk1.blogspot.com > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=349859#349859 > > > > > > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Idea about front cockpit side door
From: "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca>
Date: Aug 18, 2011
Mario, I think you'll find that the fittings would need to be so long that there would not be a large enough opening to make access to the front seat any easier. Really, the best way to incorporate a front door in an Air Camper is by building a steel tube fuselage. The welded steel joints are much more able to properly transfer the structural loads. Putting a passenger door in a wooden fuselage requires a significant amount of extra wood (extra wood = extra weight, and extra weight means that your passenger carrying capacity is lessened). I have spoken with a Pietenpol builder who eventually also became the owner of an Air Camper with a door, and found the Piet with the passenger door to be no easier to get into than the standard Piet (no door). It has something to do with the position that one must be in to enter the front cockpit, and having the door did nothing to make it easier. That's what he told me. In any case - be careful with any modifications. Bill C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=349867#349867 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Two Part Post- need help in SE Ohio looking at a fuselage
From: "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca>
Date: Aug 18, 2011
I'd say that $1000 for a well built steel tube fuselage, built with 4130, complete with landing gear and control stick assembly is a deal. Subtract the cost of materials and divide the remainder by the number of hours of work, and you have one very poorly paid welder. On another note... Just curious, but how is this a "Two Part Post", as referred to in the topic title? Where's Part two? Bill C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=349870#349870 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG FORSCOM" <steven.d.dortch(at)us.army.mil>
Date: Aug 18, 2011
Subject: Different thot about door
I saw a photo of a barnstorming Biplane that carried two or three in the front seat. Open cockpit. But about where the "normal" Piet door was they had the opening, but no door. Just open. What would that do to drag? It would be lighter. Just a lurker Steve "Be home soon" D ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 18, 2011
From: airlion <airlion(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: update
Hey ya'll. Just to let you know what is going on. I AM rebuilding my Piet. Thanks to Tim Willis for tail feather parts and Jack Phillips for wing rib parts, the rebuild is making progress. Also, thanks to Ryan Mueller for ordering the rib package. My fuse is back on the gear after all the welding repairs and fixing damage to the tail cone. Also I had to rebuild the leading edge of the center section. Jack was able to build 9 ribs untill his accident on his hand. I drove up to Va . to pick up the rest of the rib project and now I have 19 ribs done. I had originally bought the last rib set from C Rubeck, and now I can really appreciate how much work goes into building a Piet. I am planning on taking the corvair to Barnwell S C to put a 5th bearing in while I have the plane torn apart. Now that would give me more incentive to get flying again. I am flying in my cessna 140 to Triple Tree Aerodrome in South Carolina Sept 8 for their Fly in. Will anyone else be there, I am sorry about putting so many I's in this report. Cheers, Gardiner ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: update
From: "Billy McCaskill" <billmz(at)cox.net>
Date: Aug 18, 2011
Nothing wrong with using that many "I's" when you are talking about making progress on your rebuild! Keep it up, and keep us posted. Glad that you are still flying in the 140 while you are getting the Piet back together. -------- Billy McCaskill Urbana, IL tail section almost done, starting on ribs soon Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=349892#349892 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: update
From: gboothe5(at)comcast.net
Date: Aug 18, 2011
Gardiner, Feel free to use as many 'I's as you want! You know you have the good wishes and God Speeds of many friends! Gary ------Original Message------ From: airlion Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com ReplyTo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: update Sent: Aug 18, 2011 3:52 PM Hey ya'll. Just to let you know what is going on. I AM rebuilding my Piet. Thanks to Tim Willis for tail feather parts and Jack Phillips for wing rib parts, the rebuild is making progress. Also, thanks to Ryan Mueller for ordering the rib package. My fuse is back on the gear after all the welding repairs and fixing damage to the tail cone. Also I had to rebuild the leading edge of the center section. Jack was able to build 9 ribs untill his accident on his hand. I drove up to Va . to pick up the rest of the rib project and now I have 19 ribs done. I had originally bought the last rib set from C Rubeck, and now I can really appreciate how much work goes into building a Piet. I am planning on taking the corvair to Barnwell S C to put a 5th bearing in while I have the plane torn apart. Now that would give me more incentive to get flying again. I am flying in my cessna 140 to Triple Tree Aerodrome in South Carolina Sept 8 for their Fly in. Will anyone else be there, I am sorry about putting so many I's in this report. Cheers, Gardiner Sent on the Sprint Now Network from my BlackBerry ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: update
Date: Aug 18, 2011
Great to hear, Gardiner. Karen and I really enjoyed your visit to our home - sorry that my hand injury prevented me from building all your ribs, but I think you're enjying building them yourself now. I'll try to get down to Triple Tree if I can, even if it's just in the RV-4. Jack Phillips NX899JP Smith Mountain Lake, Virigina -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of airlion Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2011 6:52 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: update Hey ya'll. Just to let you know what is going on. I AM rebuilding my Piet. Thanks to Tim Willis for tail feather parts and Jack Phillips for wing rib parts, the rebuild is making progress. Also, thanks to Ryan Mueller for ordering the rib package. My fuse is back on the gear after all the welding repairs and fixing damage to the tail cone. Also I had to rebuild the leading edge of the center section. Jack was able to build 9 ribs untill his accident on his hand. I drove up to Va . to pick up the rest of the rib project and now I have 19 ribs done. I had originally bought the last rib set from C Rubeck, and now I can really appreciate how much work goes into building a Piet. I am planning on taking the corvair to Barnwell S C to put a 5th bearing in while I have the plane torn apart. Now that would give me more incentive to get flying again. I am flying in my cessna 140 to Triple Tree Aerodrome in South Carolina Sept 8 for their Fly in. Will anyone else be there, I am sorry about putting so many I's in this report. Cheers, Gardiner ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Dan Yocum <yocum137(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: update
Date: Aug 18, 2011
I think the "ayes" have it! Glad to hear about the excellent progress! Dan -- Dan Yocum yocum137(at)gmail.com "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things." On Aug 18, 2011, at 6:15 PM, "Jack Phillips" wrote: > > Great to hear, Gardiner. Karen and I really enjoyed your visit to our home > - sorry that my hand injury prevented me from building all your ribs, but I > think you're enjying building them yourself now. > > I'll try to get down to Triple Tree if I can, even if it's just in the RV-4. > > Jack Phillips > NX899JP > Smith Mountain Lake, Virigina > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of airlion > Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2011 6:52 PM > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: update > > > Hey ya'll. Just to let you know what is going on. I AM rebuilding my Piet. > Thanks to Tim Willis for tail feather parts and Jack Phillips for wing rib > parts, the rebuild is making progress. Also, thanks to Ryan Mueller for > ordering > the rib package. My fuse is back on the gear after all the welding repairs > and > fixing damage to the tail cone. Also I had to rebuild the leading edge of > the > center section. Jack was able to build 9 ribs untill his accident on his > hand. I > drove up to Va . to pick up the rest of the rib project and now I have 19 > ribs > done. I had originally bought the last rib set from C Rubeck, and now I can > really appreciate how much work goes into building a Piet. I am planning on > taking the corvair to Barnwell S C to put a 5th bearing in while I have the > > plane torn apart. Now that would give me more incentive to get flying again. > I > am flying in my cessna 140 to Triple Tree Aerodrome in South Carolina Sept 8 > for > their Fly in. Will anyone else be there, I am sorry about putting so many > I's > in this report. Cheers, Gardiner > > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. > For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email > ______________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Green's Airplane Building suggestions
From: "Pieti Lowell" <Lowellcfrank(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Aug 18, 2011
Check out some excellent points on aircraft construction, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HioV-vQvqio Pieti Lowell Don't Archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=349904#349904 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Gene Rambo <generambo(at)msn.com>
Subject: Thomasville Ga Fly-in?
Date: Aug 18, 2011
I am from Thomasville. It used to be THE antique airplane fly-in in the co untry (in the 1970s)=2C much like Brodhead has taken over. It has grown ov er the past years into a large fly-in once again. I would like to get home for it=2C but I definitely would advocate anyone else going!!!! I will pr ovide any necessary introductions. Gene Rambo > Date: Wed=2C 17 Aug 2011 13:34:20 -0400 > From: bencharvet(at)gmail.com > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Thomasville Ga Fly-in? > > > Anybody ever been the the Thomasville Fly-in in October? Looks like a > great two leg flight for me=2C and the wife has even offered to come > along. It would be a great prelude for a trip to Brodhead=2C since its in > the same direction. > > http://www.thomasvilleflyin.com/ > > -- > Ben Charvet=2C PharmD > Staff Pharmacist > Parrish Medical center > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Thomasville Ga Fly-in?
From: "Jerry Dotson" <jdotson(at)centurylink.net>
Date: Aug 18, 2011
Gene, Did you or do you know Jim Dekle? I knew him once upon a time. I think Thomasville 1973 was the last time I saw him. He is a fine gentleman. The whole Dekle clan is good folks. He had a Cessna Airmaster in the rebuild stages. I never knew if he finished it or not. Ben and Gardiner are going this year so I am going to make a real effort to go even if I have to drive(sigh). -------- Jerry Dotson 59 Daniel Johnson Rd Baker, FL 32531 Started building NX510JD July, 2009 wing, tailfeathers done, fuselage rolling using Lycoming O-235 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=349916#349916 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Gene Rambo <generambo(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Thomasville Ga Fly-in?
Date: Aug 18, 2011
I was at Jim's house a few weeks ago. The Airmaster was nothis=2C it belon ged to Roy Wicker. I used to fly it many years ago. I think that airplane is in England now. I had my own Airmaster=2C and I brought it to the first Pietenpol Fly In I ever attended in 1997 or so. Gene > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Thomasville Ga Fly-in? > From: jdotson(at)centurylink.net > Date: Thu=2C 18 Aug 2011 18:48:08 -0700 > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > .net> > > Gene=2C > Did you or do you know Jim Dekle? I knew him once upon a time. I think Th omasville 1973 was the last time I saw him. He is a fine gentleman. The who le Dekle clan is good folks. He had a Cessna Airmaster in the rebuild stage s. I never knew if he finished it or not. Ben and Gardiner are going this y ear so I am going to make a real effort to go even if I have to drive(sigh) . > > -------- > Jerry Dotson > 59 Daniel Johnson Rd > Baker=2C FL 32531 > > Started building NX510JD July=2C 2009 > wing=2C tailfeathers done=2C fuselage rolling > using Lycoming O-235 > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=349916#349916 > > > > > > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 19, 2011
From: Jim Boyer <boyerjrb(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Idea about front cockpit side door
Hi Bill, Your comments about not being easier to get into a Piet with the cockpit do or (Keri Ann's) disign is not correct. I have a door in my Piet and it is m uch easier to get into.=C2- My wife would not be able to get into a Piet without it as she has two artificial hip joints and one knee joint. She can get into my Piet and Charlie Miller's Piet with no problem. Cheers, Jim B. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: external static port
Date: Aug 19, 2011
Dan asked- >is anyone else using an external static port, or is >everyone just leaving the static ports open on the back of >their instruments? On 41CC, Corky installed a full pitot-static system as well as a venturi for the gyro instruments. The pitot tube is on the starboard side, mounted to the jury strut, down a ways from the wing so as to be out of the effects of the wing. The static ports are on each side of the fuselage aft of the pilot's seat, pretty much where the elevator walking beam station is located... if memory serves. Plastic tubing connects everything to the instruments. I think the ASI on 41CC is quite responsive and accurate, but I have not experimented with it with the fuselage static ports disconnected and just sensing "cabin" static pressure. I have never noticed any area of reverse sensing or ram effect, even in a sideslip. Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" Flying Squirrel N2069Z "Rocket" Medford, OR website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: external static port
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 19, 2011
My ASI is so wildly erratic that I don't even look at it. Tried different s tatic port locations to no avail. Admittedly I haven't checked to see if th e ASI is OK yet. I bought it on Ebay. Maybe if I just hook up a vinyl pitot tube to the back and hold it into the windstream to see if it registers be tter? When I was at Brodhead Billy Mcaskil (sp) suggested I put a straw on the pitot to get it more ahead of the wing LE to see if that helped....it d idn't. Oh well, who needs airspeed in a Piet anyway? Dan Helsper Puryear, TN ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net>
Subject: Re: Idea about front cockpit side door
Date: Aug 19, 2011
Could Keri Ann's design be incorporated in a fuselage that is basically complete except for the side plywood and turtle deck? How can I get a set of her plans? C ----- Original Message ----- From: Doug Dever To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2011 12:38 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Idea about front cockpit side door If you want a door, why not just use Kerri Ann's plans. Proven design. Just my .02 Doug Dever In beautiful Stow Ohio > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Idea about front cockpit side door > From: mario.giacummo(at)gmail.com > Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2011 09:09:21 -0700 > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > > > Bill, > > I agree with you, open and closing with bolts it's an uncomfortable idea, but I think (I did't see any statistic about) that the major time the piets fly with just the pilot.. about dimenssions, of course, it just an idea, not a design. > I do not messure anything yet, i am going to do it.. so from yours three points I am going to see 2, the lenght of the fitting, and how to fix the square tube to the wood without damage to much de longeron. > > -------- > Mario Giacummo > http://vgmk1.blogspot.com > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=349859#349859 > > > Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, >=== > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Different thot about door
From: "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org>
Date: Aug 19, 2011
I have a door in my steel tube piet. It's a great addition to the plane. I fly it quite often with the door open. The only noticeable difference is that I get more wind up my pant leg. Bad thing to do in the winter though. Burrr! -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=349945#349945 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kip and Beth Gardner <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Idea about front cockpit side door
Date: Aug 19, 2011
Charles, I once asked her if it was possible to incorporate it into a fuse with the sides already on & she said yes, but with some difficulty and the finished product might not be as good as if starting from scratch. I'd think it would be a lot easier if you don't have the plywood on yet. Hopefully, you haven't varnished anything yet either. She posts to the list on a regular basis, so her contact info is in the archive. Kip Gardner On Aug 19, 2011, at 9:22 AM, Charles Campbell wrote: > Could Keri Ann's design be incorporated in a fuselage that is > basically complete except for the side plywood and turtle deck? How > can I get a set of her plans? C > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Doug Dever > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2011 12:38 PM > Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Idea about front cockpit side door > > If you want a door, why not just use Kerri Ann's plans. Proven > design. Just my .02 > > Doug Dever > In beautiful Stow Ohio > > > > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Idea about front cockpit side door > > From: mario.giacummo(at)gmail.com > > Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2011 09:09:21 -0700 > > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > > > > > > > > Bill, > > > > I agree with you, open and closing with bolts it's an > uncomfortable idea, but I think (I did't see any statistic about) > that the major time the piets fly with just the pilot.. about > dimenssions, of course, it just an idea, not a design. > > I do not messure anything yet, i am going to do it.. so from yours > three points I am going to see 2, the lenght of the fitting, and how > to fix the square tube to the wood without damage to much de longeron. > > > > -------- > > Mario Giacummo > > http://vgmk1.blogspot.com > > > > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=349859#349859 > > > > > > Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, > >=== > > > > > > > > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http:// > www.matronics.com/c > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Idea about front cockpit side door
From: "giacummo" <mario.giacummo(at)gmail.com>
Date: Aug 19, 2011
womenfly2 wrote: > giacummo ... what you are doing here is a very unsafe and uncalculated engineered design. > > ... but what do I know. Keri-ann, I am not doing anything wrong, I am just puting an idea on the table to discuss it, analyze it, and may be make functional and safe design; I think there are lot of members with head enough to resolv this problem. Regards. [/i][/u] -------- Mario Giacummo http://vgmk1.blogspot.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=349949#349949 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Idea about front cockpit side door
From: "giacummo" <mario.giacummo(at)gmail.com>
Date: Aug 19, 2011
I do not want to discuss about benefits or not of the door, just the idea and if it could be possible to do it or not; if no, why, and if yes.. I am intersted in this because is a fact that it is not easy to go into the front for a lot of people for many reasons, so, lets think in something for them... an "open design" of the door, this one or an other one... So, continuing with this exercise I try to figure how it look in place. the measures are what they are, measures, without any engineering on it, may be they could be larger or shorter, thiker or thiner walls, or a bad solution at all; lets search for a proof of concept. Regards. -------- Mario Giacummo http://vgmk1.blogspot.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=349955#349955 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/puerta2_192.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Woodflier(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 19, 2011
Subject: Re: External static ports
Dan asked- >is anyone else using an external static port, or is >everyone just leaving the static ports open on the back of >their instruments? Dan, I just drilled small holes in some plastic plugs that fit the plumbing holes in the back of the altimeter and airspeed. I don't know whether that affected the accuracy of the indications - the altimeter is a 1-pointer non-sensitive instrument anyhow. All seems to work ok and a lot simpler. Based on my airspeed indications when Jack and Kevin and I flew up to Oshkosh, and what Jack was indicating, we were pretty close on our readings. Matt Paxton NX629ML ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Different thot about door
From: "Mild Bill" <whfrank(at)charter.net>
Date: Aug 19, 2011
"Air Camper, thy name is DRAG." Leaving the door off will add a cup of drag to a big bucketful of existing drag. 'Tain't no big ting, mon. -------- Bill Frank Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=349961#349961 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: external static port
From: Hans Van Der Voort <hvandervoo(at)aol.com>
Date: Aug 19, 2011
Mark langford has a method on his website to check and calibrate an ASI http://www.n56ml.com/airspeed_calibration/ Hans NX15KV -----Original Message----- From: helspersew <helspersew(at)aol.com> Sent: Fri, Aug 19, 2011 6:59 am Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: external static port My ASI is so wildly erratic that I don't even look at it. Tried different s tatic port locations to no avail. Admittedly I haven't checked to see if th e ASI is OK yet. I bought it on Ebay. Maybe if I just hook up a vinyl pitot tube to the back and hold it into the windstream to see if it registers be tter? When I was at Brodhead Billy Mcaskil (sp) suggested I put a straw on the pitot to get it more ahead of the wing LE to see if that helped....it d idn't. Oh well, who needs airspeed in a Piet anyway? Dan Helsper Puryear, TN ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Different thot about door
From: "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org>
Date: Aug 19, 2011
Bill, I agree, Door open or closed, Pull the power back then throw out a brick and see where you are going to land. A friend of mine actually gave me a brick to carry for that reason. He said it would save some precious time looking for a suitable landing field in case of an engine failure. I haven't needed it yet. :-) -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=349964#349964 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Idea about front cockpit side door
From: "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org>
Date: Aug 19, 2011
I think your metal fittings would outweigh the wood modes in Kerri-anns design. Stay with what works. Just saying, -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=349966#349966 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: AMsafetyC(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 19, 2011
Subject: Re: Idea about front cockpit side door
Mario, At one point I was all set to install the front pit door, had it roughed in and supported with a design that made sense and transferred the loads both down and around the proposed opening, not doing the math or analysis planned as a next step. Before fully committing to the door I stopped and I decided against it, for the following reasons: There are 4 longerons that pretty much support the length of the airframe, cutting one and reducing that strength by 25% made no sense, and to tell you the truth frightened me to a point that I would have no piece of mind wondering if the other longerons were able to support the load and flexing moments placed on them. Just too scary for me to want to fly with Making that major structural change for an occasional passenger that may be too large to fit or may weigh too much to fit didn't make sense either. plenty of smaller people that want to ride and require no doors or reasonable accommodations, ADA compliant The occasional large passenger vs a permanent structural change that may weaken the airframe, I plan to fly it all the time and take passengers on occasion, why make that sacrifice of strong airframe integrity for the occasional passenger. Makes no sense here either There are plenty small, light weight and flexible folks that can and do fit easily into the front pit, why change the airframe to accommodate the unfitting few? repeat of the point I just can seem to justify cutting a major structural component, compromising the integrity of the airframe to accommodate the once or twice rider. makes no sense here either I am a full size person, a builder and a damn good pilot, I don't ask for nor do I expect to be offered a ride, my size and weight preclude that. I understand it, I accept it and I make no excuses for it. That's the way it is and I make no bones about it. Weight and balance, flying over gross are just two of the important aspects of consideration in aviation. Why mess with something that needs not be compromised ? I am certain any rider you plan to take in your Piet will greatly appreciate the ride over the fence on take off rather that going through it on an attempted takeoff. Compromises in safety are not compromises at all but the commitment of poor judgments and dumb acts made by foolish people. And the opinion of the writer bearing no value to anyone determined to kill themselves or others though poor decision making. John Safe in the morning In a message dated 8/19/2011 10:40:53 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, mario.giacummo(at)gmail.com writes: --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "giacummo" I do not want to discuss about benefits or not of the door, just the idea and if it could be possible to do it or not; if no, why, and if yes.. I am intersted in this because is a fact that it is not easy to go into the front for a lot of people for many reasons, so, lets think in something for them... an "open design" of the door, this one or an other one... So, continuing with this exercise I try to figure how it look in place. the measures are what they are, measures, without any engineering on it, may be they could be larger or shorter, thiker or thiner walls, or a bad solution at all; lets search for a proof of concept. Regards. -------- Mario Giacummo http://vgmk1.blogspot.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=349955#349955 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/puerta2_192.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 19, 2011
Subject: Re: Idea about front cockpit side door
From: Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com>
If you're bound and determined to put a door in a wood fuselage Piet, then why not just use the design that has already been done....and flown? There's your proof of concept: https://sites.google.com/site/pietenpolplanpackages/pietenpol-plan-packages/suppemental-plan-packages Ryan On Fri, Aug 19, 2011 at 9:38 AM, giacummo wrote: > > > > I do not want to discuss about benefits or not of the door, just the idea > and if it could be possible to do it or not; if no, why, and if yes.. I am > intersted in this because is a fact that it is not easy to go into the front > for a lot of people for many reasons, so, lets think in something for > them... an "open design" of the door, this one or an other one... > > So, continuing with this exercise I try to figure how it look in place. > the measures are what they are, measures, without any engineering on it, > may be they could be larger or shorter, thiker or thiner walls, or a bad > solution at all; lets search for a proof of concept. > > > Regards. > > -------- > Mario Giacummo > http://vgmk1.blogspot.com > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=349955#349955 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/puerta2_192.jpg > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net>
Subject: Re: Idea about front cockpit side door
Date: Aug 19, 2011
I haven't learned (or taught myself) how to use the archives. I guess I'd better get hot and learn how. And, no, I haven't put on the plywood sides as yet or put on any varnish. I am waiting to put in the controls, cables, seats, etc so that it will be easier than having to lean over into the cockpit(s) to do that. I have to build the left wing and varnish those before I get restarted on the fuselage. ----- Original Message ----- From: Kip and Beth Gardner To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, August 19, 2011 9:39 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Idea about front cockpit side door Charles, I once asked her if it was possible to incorporate it into a fuse with the sides already on & she said yes, but with some difficulty and the finished product might not be as good as if starting from scratch. I'd think it would be a lot easier if you don't have the plywood on yet. Hopefully, you haven't varnished anything yet either. She posts to the list on a regular basis, so her contact info is in the archive. Kip Gardner On Aug 19, 2011, at 9:22 AM, Charles Campbell wrote: Could Keri Ann's design be incorporated in a fuselage that is basically complete except for the side plywood and turtle deck? How can I get a set of her plans? C ----- Original Message ----- From: Doug Dever To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2011 12:38 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Idea about front cockpit side door If you want a door, why not just use Kerri Ann's plans. Proven design. Just my .02 Doug Dever In beautiful Stow Ohio > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Idea about front cockpit side door > From: mario.giacummo(at)gmail.com > Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2011 09:09:21 -0700 > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > > > Bill, > > I agree with you, open and closing with bolts it's an uncomfortable idea, but I think (I did't see any statistic about) that the major time the piets fly with just the pilot.. about dimenssions, of course, it just an idea, not a design. > I do not messure anything yet, i am going to do it.. so from yours three points I am going to see 2, the lenght of the fitting, and how to fix the square tube to the wood without damage to much de longeron. > > -------- > Mario Giacummo > http://vgmk1.blogspot.com > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=349859#349859 > > > Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, >=== > > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ontribution ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net>
Subject: Re: Different thot about door
Date: Aug 19, 2011
Yeah! I was wondering why anyone would be troubled by additional drag on a Piet. It would be like spitting in the ocean. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mild Bill" <whfrank(at)charter.net> Sent: Friday, August 19, 2011 11:03 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Different thot about door > > "Air Camper, thy name is DRAG." > > Leaving the door off will add a cup of drag to a big bucketful of existing > drag. > > 'Tain't no big ting, mon. > > -------- > Bill Frank > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=349961#349961 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 19, 2011
From: Dan Yocum <yocum137(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Different thot about door
Meh. You guys need to forget about the door. Here's the reason why - none of the passengers in this picture needed a door to get into Greg's Air Camper: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t405&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=&sid=d167a429aefbbcba276624e75f8fd395 Looks like an excellent reason to forego the door - it limits the passengers to a small subset of people! Dan ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Different thot about door
From: "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org>
Date: Aug 19, 2011
I have a 98 lbs wife with back problems. She would not be able to fly in the Piet if it weren't for the door. I have taken guys as tall as 6" 6" and others as heavy as 250lbs up in mine. Very tight fit, but with the door I made it happen. -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=349984#349984 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Idea about front cockpit side door
From: "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org>
Date: Aug 19, 2011
Taller caban struts help too. -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=349986#349986 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 19, 2011
From: Ben Charvet <bencharvet(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: external static port
I had two used ASI's laying around, and did the same proceedure to pick the more accurate of the two. I Don't look at it much, either. It seems like the Pietenpol talks to you. It takes off when its ready, cruises as fast as it wants, and touches down when it is ready (sometimes before I am) Ben On 8/19/2011 11:19 AM, Hans Van Der Voort wrote: > Mark langford has a method on his website to check and calibrate an ASI > > http://www.n56ml.com/airspeed_calibration/ > Hans > NX15KV > > > -----Original Message----- > From: helspersew <helspersew(at)aol.com> > To: pietenpol-list > Sent: Fri, Aug 19, 2011 6:59 am > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: external static port > > My ASI is so wildly erratic that I don't even look at it. Tried > different static port locations to no avail. Admittedly I haven't > checked to see if the ASI is OK yet. I bought it on Ebay. Maybe if I > just hook up a vinyl pitot tube to the back and hold it into the > windstream to see if it registers better? When I was at Brodhead Billy > Mcaskil (sp) suggested I put a straw on the pitot to get it more ahead > of the wing LE to see if that helped....it didn't. Oh well, who needs > airspeed in a Piet anyway? > Dan Helsper > Puryear, TN > > > * > > " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > tp://forums.matronics.com > _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > * > * > > > * -- Ben Charvet, PharmD Staff Pharmacist Parrish Medical center ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 19, 2011
Subject: Re: Different thot about door
From: mike Hardaway <bkemike(at)gmail.com>
When you land, be sure to taxi a little ways to get out of the way of the falling brick. On Fri, Aug 19, 2011 at 8:22 AM, AircamperN11MS wrote: > Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org> > > Bill, > > I agree, Door open or closed, Pull the power back then throw out a brick > and see where you are going to land. > > A friend of mine actually gave me a brick to carry for that reason. He > said it would save some precious time looking for a suitable landing field > in case of an engine failure. I haven't needed it yet. :-) > > -------- > Scott Liefeld > Flying N11MS since March 1972 > Steel Tube > C-85-12 > Wire Wheels > Brodhead in 1996 > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=349964#349964 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Different thot about door
From: "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org>
Date: Aug 19, 2011
Ouch, a brick just hit me in the head. Funny Mike -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350011#350011 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Doug Dever <chiefpepperhead(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Idea about front cockpit side door
Date: Aug 19, 2011
Keri Ann's page https://sites.google.com/site/pietenpolplanpackages/pieten pol-plan-packages Doug Dever In beautiful Stow Ohio From: cncampbell(at)windstream.net Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Idea about front cockpit side door Date: Fri=2C 19 Aug 2011 09:22:21 -0400 Could Keri Ann's design be incorporated in a fuselage that is basically com plete except for the side plywood and turtle deck? How can I get a set of her plans? C ----- Original Message ----- From: Doug Dever Sent: Thursday=2C August 18=2C 2011 12:38 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Idea about front cockpit side door If you want a door=2C why not just use Kerri Ann's plans. Proven design. Just my .02 Doug Dever In beautiful Stow Ohio > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Idea about front cockpit side door > From: mario.giacummo(at)gmail.com > Date: Thu=2C 18 Aug 2011 09:09:21 -0700 > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > m> > > Bill=2C > > I agree with you=2C open and closing with bolts it's an uncomfortable ide a=2C but I think (I did't see any statistic about) that the major time the piets fly with just the pilot.. about dimenssions=2C of course=2C it just a n idea=2C not a design. > I do not messure anything yet=2C i am going to do it.. so from yours thre e points I am going to see 2=2C the lenght of the fitting=2C and how to fix the square tube to the wood without damage to much de longeron. > > -------- > Mario Giacummo > http://vgmk1.blogspot.com > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=349859#349859 > > > Archive Search & Download=2C 7-Day Browse=2C Chat=2C FAQ=2C >=== > > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matro nics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Idea about front cockpit side door
From: "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com>
Date: Aug 19, 2011
Recently, while rebuilding my Aeronca Chief I had the forks magnafluxed before reattaching the struts. One of them was found to be slightly bent with a possible crack. Probably from standing on the strut. Had to get a new one and destroyed that one. Don Emch NX899DE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350037#350037 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 20, 2011
From: Jim Boyer <boyerjrb(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Idea about front cockpit side door
Why beat your head against the wall? Buy Keri Ann's plans for door; its an engineered design and it is proven by being in several flying Piets. Cheers, Jim B. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Perry Rhoads" <prhoads61(at)frontiernet.net>
Subject: Piet Front Step
Date: Aug 19, 2011
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Perry Rhoads" <prhoads61(at)frontiernet.net>
Subject: More Front Step
Date: Aug 19, 2011
Here's a friend demonstrating the front step in use on N12939 Perry Rhoads ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Greg Cardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Different thot about door
Date: Aug 20, 2011
Dan is quite correct.... > > Meh. You guys need to forget about the door. Here's the reason why - > none of the passengers in this picture needed a door to get into Greg's > Air Camper: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t405&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=&sid=d167a429aefbbcba276624e75f8fd395 > > Looks like an excellent reason to forego the door - it limits the > passengers to a small subset of people! > > Dan > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net>
Subject: Fw: Hotel Key Cards-FYI
Date: Aug 20, 2011
Good information for anyone who travels! Do it every time -- it only takes once to mess you up! Wow, I didn't know this! Begin forwarded message: Always take a small fridge magnet on your Holiday, they come in handy at the end of it. Thought you all needed to know this This is pretty good info. Never even thought About key cards containing anything other Than an access code for the room! HOTEL KEY CARDS Ever wonder what is on your magnetic key Card? Answer: A. Customer's name B. Customer's partial home address C. Hotel room number D. Check-in date and out dates E. Customer's credit card number and expiration date! When you turn them in to the front desk your Personal information is there for any employee To access by simply scanning the card in the Hotel scanner. An employee can take a hand full Of cards home and using a scanning device, access The information onto a laptop computer and go Shopping at your expense. Simply put, hotels do not erase the information On these cards until an employee reissues the Card to the next hotel guest. At that time, the New guest's information is electronically 'over- Written on the card and the previous guest's Information is erased in the overwriting process. But until the card is rewritten for the next guest, It usually is kept in a drawer at the front desk With YOUR INFORMATION ON IT! The bottom line is: Keep the cards, take them Home with you, or destroy them. NEVER leave them Behind in the room or room wastebasket, and NEVER turn them into the front desk when you Check out of a room. They will not charge you for the card (it's illegal) and you'll be sure you are not leaving A lot of valuable personal information on it that could Be easily lifted off with any simple scanning device Card reader. For the same reason, if you arrive at the airport and Discover you still have the card key in your pocket, Do not toss it in an airport trash basket. Take it home And destroy it by cutting it up, especially through the Electronic information strip! If you have a small magnet, Pass it across the magnetic Strip several times. Then try it in the door, it will not Work. It erases everything on the card. Information courtesy of: Metropolitan Police Service. PLEASE FORWARD to family & friends ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net>
Subject: Hotel Key Cards
Date: Aug 20, 2011
This morning I forwarded an E-mail that said motel key cards held some personal information that could be misused. Later I discovered that Snopes denies that this is true. Snopes sometimes is wrong. I'll let you be the judge as to the veracity of the information. Sorry if this has caused some ill will. Chuck ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gboothe5" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Hotel Key Cards
Date: Aug 20, 2011
Charles, No apology should be necessary.err on the side of caution..don't trust Snopes..and..LOCK YOUR FRIGGIN' DOOR WHEN YOUR INSIDE!! Just to make this Piet-related.a hotel robbery cost me at least 2 months worth of progress on my project. Gary From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charles Campbell Sent: Saturday, August 20, 2011 6:32 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Hotel Key Cards This morning I forwarded an E-mail that said motel key cards held some personal information that could be misused. Later I discovered that Snopes denies that this is true. Snopes sometimes is wrong. I'll let you be the judge as to the veracity of the information. Sorry if this has caused some ill will. Chuck ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: External static ports
From: "Pieti Lowell" <Lowellcfrank(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Aug 20, 2011
I test the accuracy of my airspeed instrument by using a similar Pitot tube in a car speed check at all speeds, when there is no wind and a two direction run. 3 feet away from the car will be close to perfect.And mark stall, cruise & not to exceed, for face references. Pieti Lowell Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350056#350056 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Two Part Post- need help in SE Ohio looking at a fuselage
From: "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Aug 20, 2011
Bill, I probably should have entitled it a "2 Question Post", that really ended up being 3 questions- 1. Pluses and minuses. 2. Is the price good? 3. Can someone eyeball it for me? You and others answered 1 and 2, and Skip Gadd helped me with 3. I appreciate everyone's help and I will keep you posted. P.S. I think a significant part of my interest in the Piet is the camaraderie of the group and everyone's willingness to give of their time and knowledge. I hope that I am able to repay in kind at some point. -------- Semper Fi, Terry Hand Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350071#350071 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Idea about front cockpit side door
From: Dan Yocum <yocum137(at)gmail.com>
Date: Aug 20, 2011
On Aug 19, 2011, at 11:05 AM, "Charles Campbell" wrote: > I haven't learned (or taught myself) how to use the archives. I guess I'd better get hot and learn how. And, no, I haven't put on the plywood sides a s yet or put on any varnish. I am waiting to put in the controls, cables, s eats, etc so that it will be easier than having to lean over into the cockpi t(s) to do that. I have to build the left wing and varnish those before I g et restarted on the fuselage. Info on how to search the archives is, uh, in... Never mind. ;-) I use google to search the pietenpol archives. For instance, enter the follo wing into google: site:matronics.com pietenpol "ping pong balls" -yocum This will limit the search to the pietenpol list on the matronics site, find the exact phrase "ping pong balls" and not give any results that I may cont ain anything from yours truly. Have fun! Dan -- Dan Yocum yocum137(at)gmail.com "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things." ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: airspeed indicator
Date: Aug 20, 2011
I don't look at my airspeed indicator a whole lot, but there are certain times that I look at it without fail. One is when taking off with a passenger aboard. Solo, I never worry about getting sufficient airspeed to lift off but with a pax, I always look at the ASI to make sure I have sufficient airspeed for rotation and climbout, and I check it another time or two while climbing out. With 65 or 75HP of power on the nose, it's important to manage climb airspeed when loaded. With a Corvair or anything like a C85-90 or O-200, not so much because there is more excess power. Another time I check airspeed without fail is when setting up on final. Most of the time I can fly the approach seat of the pants, but if you'll look through the archives you'll find comments from most of the high-time Piet pilots about the perfect airspeed to hold on final. They will all tell you that there is perhaps a 2-3MPH airspeed band between what you fly for a short field landing and a normal landing, and between a normal landing and a gusty wind landing. That is to say, you can bring the airplane down quite steeply if you fly it down the wire around 54-57 whereas a more normal approach is flown at maybe 57-60. When it's gusty, a bit more airspeed helps to reduce bobbing around and gives more positive control, so you may fly final in the 60s every now and then. In a strong and gusty headwind, I have even flown final almost at cruise airspeed. The point is, it isn't all that easy to feel the difference between 50 and 55 and when you get the airplane slow, it's going to come down quite rapidly. So you do need an ASI but it doesn't have to be extremely accurate... just consistent. The earlier comments about calibrating your ASI using the manometer method (Mark Langford's website) are very useful. Mark is just about the most careful and diligent builder I know, and he takes great pains to eliminate unknowns and inconsistencies from his airplane and systems. Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" Flying Squirrel N2069Z "Rocket" Medford, OR website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Sign Off
From: "TriScout" <apfelcyber(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Aug 20, 2011
Well folks.. I,ve tinkered all I can. I taxi tested and tweaked her. Brakes hold up to about 1600 r's.. which is the way I like them. Not a drop of oil in the cowl after run up. 684hrs TT airframe.. A65-8 (this planes 4th engine). Annual Conditional Inp..signed off today by DAR. It feels good.. very easy to taxi...as if I've been sitting in it 20yrs. But even w/17,000 hrs under my belt, it sure would give me a warm fuzzy to find someone to take her around the patch before I haul off in it. Any takers? This is not your simple ol' 747 that I'm used to, but rather, an intimidating GN-1. After the sign off, I sat in silence.. staring at it over a crappacino... Oh well.. heading overseas Monday for a few weeks.. (around the world in 80 delays). I'll stare at it some more starting mid-Sept... Ler Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350085#350085 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/dscf4687_149.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/dscf4683_758.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/dscf4684_158.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Dan Yocum <yocum137(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Sign Off
Date: Aug 20, 2011
Oh, just get in and go! -- Dan Yocum yocum137(at)gmail.com "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things." On Aug 20, 2011, at 8:11 PM, "TriScout" wrote: > > Well folks.. I,ve tinkered all I can. I taxi tested and tweaked her. Brakes hold up to about 1600 r's.. which is the way I like them. Not a drop of oil in the cowl after run up. 684hrs TT airframe.. A65-8 (this planes 4th engine). Annual Conditional Inp..signed off today by DAR. > > It feels good.. very easy to taxi...as if I've been sitting in it 20yrs. But even w/17,000 hrs under my belt, it sure would give me a warm fuzzy to find someone to take her around the patch before I haul off in it. Any takers? This is not your simple ol' 747 that I'm used to, but rather, an intimidating GN-1. After the sign off, I sat in silence.. staring at it over a crappacino... > > Oh well.. heading overseas Monday for a few weeks.. (around the world in 80 delays). I'll stare at it some more starting mid-Sept... > > Ler > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350085#350085 > > > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/dscf4687_149.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/dscf4683_758.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/dscf4684_158.jpg > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. > For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email > ______________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Idea about front cockpit side door
From: "giacummo" <mario.giacummo(at)gmail.com>
Date: Aug 20, 2011
Uhau!!! to much entries about everynote; but what about the idea?... this is the topic, isn't it? I read the same thing three or four time, "Kari-Ann"... I do not like this solution, it work because some of you did it, (even Kari), but I do not like it, and I do not see any mathematical or fisic proof of her solution, but I do not think is bad, simply I do not like it. I am a system engineer and from the beginin of my career I learned that for one problem are lots of solution (at least in my field), and is the same about everything, always are better solutions for anything, this is why we are where we are, if not, even we wold be on the trees. (may english is so so, may be the expression is not good write it). So, I am going to go forward whit this idea but I do not going to tell you WHY, because I have a reason for that, but the reason is not the topic, just the problem. I do not like cut a longeron as I said in the beginin, I don like KA solution, and I do not like any solution out of cut the longeron.... The only thing I want to do is restore the longeron fortres after cut it, in any way. Clear?.. ;0) [Wink] but by the moment I do not think in the problem, I am going to post somethin when I do it. Best regards to all. [Wink] -------- Mario Giacummo http://vgmk1.blogspot.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350088#350088 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Sign Off
From: "Billy McCaskill" <billmz(at)cox.net>
Date: Aug 20, 2011
Congrats on the sign-off, TriScout! Let us know how she flies. Will we see this beauty at Brodhead next year? -------- Billy McCaskill Urbana, IL tail section almost done, starting on ribs soon Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350089#350089 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Sign Off
From: "kevinpurtee" <kevin.purtee(at)us.army.mil>
Date: Aug 20, 2011
Where are you? Was it Dallas? If so, contact me offline and we can chat. kevin.purtee(at)us.army.mil or 512-422-6371. Kevin -------- Kevin "Axel" Purtee NX899KP Austin/Georgetown, TX Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350090#350090 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 20, 2011
Subject: Re: Idea about front cockpit side door
From: Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com>
You're not just cutting the longeron, you're cutting the plywood, and removing a large section of material out of what would normally carry the load paths in that area. Your idea, as you illustrated, is insufficient. You (or the rest of us) may not have the engineering data behind her solution....maybe she does, maybe not. What does stand behind it, compared to yours, is empirical data showing that it does work. If you wish to find another solution, or reinvent this particular wheel, go right ahead. At the moment your wheel is square.....I'm sure we all look forward to seeing how you round off the corners. Have a good evening, Ryan On Sat, Aug 20, 2011 at 9:10 PM, giacummo wrote: > > > > Uhau!!! to much entries about everynote; but what about the idea?... this > is the topic, isn't it? > > I read the same thing three or four time, "Kari-Ann"... I do not like this > solution, it work because some of you did it, (even Kari), but I do not like > it, and I do not see any mathematical or fisic proof of her solution, but I > do not think is bad, simply I do not like it. > I am a system engineer and from the beginin of my career I learned that for > one problem are lots of solution (at least in my field), and is the same > about everything, always are better solutions for anything, this is why we > are where we are, if not, even we wold be on the trees. (may english is so > so, may be the expression is not good write it). > > So, I am going to go forward whit this idea but I do not going to tell you > WHY, because I have a reason for that, but the reason is not the topic, just > the problem. I do not like cut a longeron as I said in the beginin, I don > like KA solution, and I do not like any solution out of cut the longeron.... > The only thing I want to do is restore the longeron fortres after cut it, in > any way. Clear?.. ;0) [Wink] but by the moment I do not think in the > problem, I am going to post somethin when I do it. > > Best regards to all. > > [Wink] > > -------- > Mario Giacummo > http://vgmk1.blogspot.com > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350088#350088 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Trial Wing Fit
Date: Aug 21, 2011
All, While we had the wings in place, my son & I also did a preliminary W & B. Adding some guestimates for fabric and paint, and using a W & B form that Jack Phillips sent out a while back (his dimensions are very close to mine), I estimated empty wt to be about 660 lbs, and CG looks good! Note the handy sliding conduit "struts" that I borrowed from Mike & Vic Groah.they work great, and gave me the opportunity to exactly measure my strut lengths, as my hickory struts will have little, if any, adjustment. Cover starts on September 10th. It was a great weekend. Gary ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Trial Wing Fit
Date: Aug 21, 2011
Very Cool, Gary! You will LOVE covering it. Jack Phillips NX899JP Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Boothe Sent: Sunday, August 21, 2011 12:36 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Trial Wing Fit All, While we had the wings in place, my son & I also did a preliminary W & B. Adding some guestimates for fabric and paint, and using a W & B form that Jack Phillips sent out a while back (his dimensions are very close to mine), I estimated empty wt to be about 660 lbs, and CG looks good! Note the handy sliding conduit "struts" that I borrowed from Mike & Vic Groah.they work great, and gave me the opportunity to exactly measure my strut lengths, as my hickory struts will have little, if any, adjustment. Cover starts on September 10th. It was a great weekend. Gary ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Trial Wing Fit
From: Jack <jack(at)textors.com>
Date: Aug 21, 2011
Gary looks great! Jack Textor Sent from my iPhone On Aug 21, 2011, at 11:36 AM, "Gary Boothe" wrote: > All, > > > > While we had the wings in place, my son & I also did a preliminary W & B. A dding some guestimates for fabric and paint, and using a W & B form that Jac k Phillips sent out a while back (his dimensions are very close to mine), I e stimated empty wt to be about 660 lbs, and CG looks good! Note the handy sli ding conduit =9Cstruts=9D that I borrowed from Mike & Vic Groah they work great, and gave me the opportunity to exactly measure my str ut lengths, as my hickory struts will have little, if any, adjustment. > > > > Cover starts on September 10th. It was a great weekend > > > > Gary > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: V Groah <vgroah(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Trial Wing Fit
Date: Aug 21, 2011
lookin good Gary=2C You are moving along great. Thanks for the photos. L ooks like a flyer for next spring. Vic From: pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Trial Wing Fit Date: Sun=2C 21 Aug 2011 12:45:20 -0400 Very Cool=2C Gary! You will LOVE covering it. Jack Phillips NX899JP Smith Mountain Lake=2C Virginia From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-lis t-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Boothe Sent: Sunday=2C August 21=2C 2011 12:36 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Trial Wing Fit All=2C While we had the wings in place=2C my son & I also did a preliminary W & B. Adding some guestimates for fabric and paint=2C and using a W & B form tha t Jack Phillips sent out a while back (his dimensions are very close to min e)=2C I estimated empty wt to be about 660 lbs=2C and CG looks good! Note t he handy sliding conduit =93struts=94 that I borrowed from Mike & Vic Groah =85they work great=2C and gave me the opportunity to exactly measure my str ut lengths=2C as my hickory struts will have little=2C if any=2C adjustment . Cover starts on September 10th. It was a great weekend=85 Gary ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 21, 2011
From: airlion <airlion(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Trial Wing Fit
looks great Gary. Cover it with clear so we can see all the good work. --- On Sun, 8/21/11, Jack Phillips wrote: From: Jack Phillips <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Trial Wing Fit Date: Sunday, August 21, 2011, 12:45 PM =0A=0A=0A =0A =0A=0A =0A=0A =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AVery Cool,=0A Gary !=C2 - You will LOVE covering it. =0A=0A =C2- =0A=0AJack Phillips =0A=0ANX89 9JP =0A=0ASmith Mountain Lake, Virginia =0A=0A =C2- =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A =0A=0A=0AFrom: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com=0A[mailto:owner-pi etenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Boothe =0ASent: Sunday, August 21, 2011=0A12:36 PM =0ATo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com =0ASubject: Pietenpol-List: Trial=0AWing Fit =0A=0A=0A=0A =C2- =0A=0AAll, =0A=0A =C2- =0A=0AWhile=0Awe had the wings in place, my son & I also did a preliminary W & B.=0AAdding some guestimates for fabric and paint, and u sing a W & B form that=0AJack Phillips sent out a while back (his dimension s are very close to mine), I=0Aestimated empty wt to be about 660 lbs, and CG looks good! Note the handy=0Asliding conduit =9Cstruts=9D th at I borrowed from Mike & Vic=0AGroahthey work great, and gave me the opportunity to exactly measure my=0Astrut lengths, as my hickory struts will have little, if any, adjustment. =0A=0A =C2- =0A=0ACover=0Astarts on September 10th. It was a great weekend =0A=0A =C2- =0A=0AGary =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Sign Off
From: "TriScout" <apfelcyber(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Aug 21, 2011
Thanks all.. Just got back from the aerodrome, where I met Kevin, his son, and Purdee wife. Some good Piet folk indeed. Kevin was kind enough to taxi test my machine, confirming my thoughts that it had a good feel to her. I will take his advice and gap seal the ailerons before I fly it. I was already planning to do that prior to flying. Thanks again Kevin and family for stopping by. Looking forward to next time we meet up.. yeah, would like to make brodhead.. that would be nice... Ler Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350136#350136 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 21, 2011
From: Dan Yocum <yocum(at)fnal.gov>
Subject: Re: Sign Off
Blue painters tape works just fine for short *and* long term use. I put some on mine last year at Brodhead and haven't taken it off, yet. On 08/21/2011 03:30 PM, TriScout wrote: > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "TriScout" > > Thanks all.. > > Just got back from the aerodrome, where I met Kevin, his son, and Purdee wife. Some good Piet folk indeed. Kevin was kind enough to taxi test my machine, confirming my thoughts that it had a good feel to her. I will take his advice and gap seal the ailerons before I fly it. I was already planning to do that prior to flying. > > Thanks again Kevin and family for stopping by. Looking forward to next time we meet up.. > > yeah, would like to make brodhead.. that would be nice... > > Ler > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350136#350136 > > -- Dan Yocum Fermilab 630.840.6509 yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things." ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: prop progress
From: "bender" <jfaith(at)solairusaviation.com>
Date: Aug 21, 2011
Well .. work kept me away from home the last month but i hit the prop hard the last day or so... I put some stain on it and look forward to the clear....but heres the idea Balancing was pretty easy... can't wait to see it run Dan H ... dude.... i can't thank you enough for putting the info together...i'm looking forward the next one already jeff faith Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350140#350140 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/prop2_106.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/prop_199.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: prop progress
From: "Billy McCaskill" <billmz(at)cox.net>
Date: Aug 21, 2011
WOW! That is definitely the most beautiful prop I've ever seen! Absolutely gorgeous! What kind of wood is that? -------- Billy McCaskill Urbana, IL tail section almost done, starting on ribs soon Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350141#350141 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: prop progress
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 21, 2011
Jeff, Let me be the first to congratulate you. It looks absolutely AWESOME!!!! V ery cool. After Cool Gary is done with the industrial fish scale you shoul d see how she pulls. Way to go. Dan Helsper Puryear, TN. -----Original Message----- From: bender <jfaith(at)solairusaviation.com> Sent: Sun, Aug 21, 2011 4:28 pm Subject: Pietenpol-List: prop progress > Well .. work kept me away from home the last month but i hit the prop hard the ast day or so... put some stain on it and look forward to the clear....but heres the idea Balancing was pretty easy... can't wait to see it run Dan H ... dude.... i can't thank you enough for putting the info together.. .i'm ooking forward the next one already eff faith ead this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350140#350140 ttachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/prop2_106.jpg ttp://forums.matronics.com//files/prop_199.jpg -======================== -= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List - -======================== -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -======================== -= - List Contribution Web Site - -= Thank you for your generous support! -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution -======================== ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: prop progress
From: "bender" <jfaith(at)solairusaviation.com>
Date: Aug 21, 2011
Thanks guys... its ash Billy... i got the wood from the same place dan did... its a 76x42 and 3 inch thick hub i copied a camel prop shape that i found on woodenpropeller.com not as swoopy as dans but i dig it i'm looking forward to making it shiny and i'm thinking about painting the tips like the old fabric covered tips.. no fabric, just paint this is the coolest thing i've made in the piet so far jeff Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350143#350143 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gboothe5" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Subject: prop progress
Date: Aug 21, 2011
Or.as Axel named us, I am "Gary From Cool." Gary Bell is, "Cool Gary." Somehow, I think I got short end of the stick.I just don't know.maybe that's why I'm not "Cool Gary".. Jeff - that is absolutely beautiful!! Let me know when you are ready to run your engine, and I'll send the scales (if you want to do a pull test). I need to re-pitch my prop and cover the fuselage before I will be ready for another run. You're welcome to the scales.. Gary From Cool From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of helspersew(at)aol.com Sent: Sunday, August 21, 2011 2:52 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: prop progress Jeff, Let me be the first to congratulate you. It looks absolutely AWESOME!!!! Very cool. After Cool Gary is done with the industrial fish scale you should see how she pulls. Way to go. Dan Helsper Puryear, TN. -----Original Message----- From: bender <jfaith(at)solairusaviation.com> Sent: Sun, Aug 21, 2011 4:28 pm Subject: Pietenpol-List: prop progress Well .. work kept me away from home the last month but i hit the prop hard the last day or so... I put some stain on it and look forward to the clear....but heres the idea Balancing was pretty easy... can't wait to see it run Dan H ... dude.... i can't thank you enough for putting the info together...i'm looking forward the next one already jeff faith Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350140#350140 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/prop2_106.jpg <http://forums.matronics.com/files/prop2_106.jpg> http://forums.matronics.com//files/prop_199.jpg <http://forums.matronics.com/files/prop_199.jpg> " target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List p://forums.matronics.com blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Idea about front cockpit side door
From: "echobravo4" <eab4(at)comcast.net>
Date: Aug 21, 2011
well, here is another solution.... -------- Earl Brown I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I intended to be. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350150#350150 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/piet_low_wing_101.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Trial Wing Fit
From: "aerocarjake" <flight.jake(at)gmail.com>
Date: Aug 21, 2011
Must be an exciting day...... I'm happy for your progress........... -------- Jake Schultz - curator, Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350151#350151 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Sign Off
From: "TriScout" <apfelcyber(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Aug 21, 2011
I was thinking a rocket science approach like maybe leather..like the Bucker Jungmeister would look really nice. Don't have a pic, but I believe they do leather on top and bottom, then lace it up really nice. I'll try the tape thing...I just might settle for that, so long as it works. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350153#350153 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Dan Yocum <yocum137(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Sign Off
Date: Aug 21, 2011
The blue painters tape is a "temporary" fix, don't get me wrong. Just don't let lack pretty leather gap seals delay your first flight. -- Dan Yocum yocum137(at)gmail.com "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things." On Aug 21, 2011, at 8:23 PM, "TriScout" wrote: > > I was thinking a rocket science approach like maybe leather..like the Bucker Jungmeister would look really nice. Don't have a pic, but I believe they do leather on top and bottom, then lace it up really nice. I'll try the tape thing...I just might settle for that, so long as it works. > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350153#350153 > > > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. > For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email > ______________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 22, 2011
From: Jim Boyer <boyerjrb(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Trial Wing Fit
Hi Gary, We are still in SD and wishing we could see your Piet up close; it is looking very good. Congratulations. Jim and Arlene ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: ANy Pietenpols in the Detroit area?
From: "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Aug 22, 2011
I will be on a layover in Detroit this next Wednesday afternoon through Thursday afternoon, and I wondered if there were any Piets in that area. If you are within a short drive of Detroit, I would like to meet you and take a look at your Piet, if your time would allow. -------- Semper Fi, Terry Hand Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350173#350173 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Idea about front cockpit side door
From: "giacummo" <mario.giacummo(at)gmail.com>
Date: Aug 22, 2011
How different it look. -------- Mario Giacummo http://vgmk1.blogspot.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350180#350180 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 22, 2011
From: "TOM STINEMETZE" <TOMS(at)mcpcity.com>
Subject: Re: Sign Off
Ler: Awesome paint scheme, Captain dude! I considered the "hawk" scheme myself but thought a Piet could not pull it off since there were no wheel spats to put the claws on. Got to admit that it works on yours. Stinemetze N328X (SpaceShip0.1) >>> "TriScout" 8/20/2011 8:11 PM >>> Well folks.. I,ve tinkered all I can. I taxi tested and tweaked her. Brakes hold up to about 1600 r's.. which is the way I like them. Not a drop of oil in the cowl after run up. 684hrs TT airframe.. A65-8 (this planes 4th engine). Annual Conditional Inp..signed off today by DAR. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "amsafetyc(at)aol.com" <amsafetyc(at)aol.com>
Date: Aug 22, 2011
Subject: Re: lycoming 0235 C1B experts
Crank was sent out for magnaflux so I believe sludge tubes were knocked out and cleaned during the process. I got aluminium push rods and 1 oil pump gear and one steel gear. So I am planning those replacments along with the rod bolts and nuts wrist pin plugs crank gear bolt and lock and the bearings and rings as consumables. And a full engine gasket and seal kit John Sent via DROID on Verizon Wireless -----Original message----- From: Jerry Dotson <jdotson(at)centurylink.net> Sent: Sat, Jul 2, 2011 20:37:16 GMT+00:00 Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: lycoming 0235 C1B experts John, I just built an O-235 C2C which is very close to being exactly the same. There are some AD's that need to be tended to oil pump gears,push rod material, carb venturi and float material, maybe some more. I remember the pushrods and float being reading the AD's closely to determine if it applied. The oil pump is very clear in that it requires 2 hardened steel gears. My log book lied. It was written that the oil pump AD had been done and it had not. Make sure you knock the sludge tubes out of the crank and clean the krud out. If you are very careful you can reuse them as it is experimental. I bought an oak dowel the same OD as the sludge tube and sanded it to fit. Measure them to make sure they are still a press fit before you reuse them. If they are not removed and cleaned odds are very great you will have bearing problems as the oil distribution goes around the OD of those tubes. They make like a centrifuge when the engine is running. Some of the krud the filters miss is cap! tured within that cavity. That was not Lycoming's intent. They figured out how to make the crank without those things in later years. I can really find fault though as my crank was in great condition after 2050 hours. I found Dart Aircraft Parts in Waco, Tx the most reasonable. A guy named Steve was nice to deal with. Note I didn't say cheap. Piston rings were $110 per cylinder ! The big picture was intentional as I wanted you to see what collects in there. -------- Jerry Dotson 59 Daniel Johnson Rd Baker, FL 32531 Started building NX510JD July, 2009 wing, tailfeathers done, fuselage rolling using Lycoming O-235 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=344716#344716 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00295_155.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "amsafetyc(at)aol.com" <amsafetyc(at)aol.com>
Date: Aug 22, 2011
Subject: Any one here
In Monterey mexico tonight? just arrived and finished dinner John Sent via DROID on Verizon Wireless ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Idea about front cockpit side door
From: "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Aug 22, 2011
Just one more option for a step. I saw this on a Grega, and I don't know if that is an acceptable option for a step, or it creates stress on the gear like a weld bar would. Not the look that I want, even if it is an acceptable option, but I thought I would post it anyway. Your thoughts? -------- Semper Fi, Terry Hand Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350196#350196 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/grega_step_132.png ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: questions from a new guy...
From: "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Aug 22, 2011
1. What is your favorite color? (A little touchy-feely, I know, but you certainly would not want to paint it your LEAST favorite color.) 2. Is there an airplane that you have seen before that you would like to make the Piet look similar to? There are tons of examples of Piets in Warbird colors, Piets painted like Golden Age airplanes that have been seen in museums, etc. 3. What do you think looks like you? Another touchy-feely question, but your car, motorcycle, boat, AND airplane are a reflection of you. Otherwise we would all drive black or white cars. Just a couple of thoughts. I already have my paint scheme designed, and I am just startin on the wing ribs. But I know what I want to the airplane to look like and what I want it to reflect of me. -------- Semper Fi, Terry Hand Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350198#350198 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 22, 2011
From: "TOM STINEMETZE" <TOMS(at)mcpcity.com>
Subject: Fuselage pass through sealing
Fellow aircraft nuts: There are a lot of places where cables or other devices must pass through the cloth covering on a Piet. Never before having covered anything I am curious how these pass throughs are dealt with, particularly if the objects passing through are flexible such as cables or rubber brake lines. Any photos would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Tom Stinemetze ____ | ____ \8/ o/ \o ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fuselage pass through sealing
From: "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca>
Date: Aug 22, 2011
Tom, As is often the case, it's Tony Bingelis to the rescue (see attached article). I've gotta say that having access to the entire library of back issues of Sport Aviation, with "search" functions is practically worth the annual EAA membership fees. That only took about three minutes to find. Bill C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350216#350216 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/1989_05_13_146.pdf ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fuselage pass through sealing
From: "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca>
Date: Aug 22, 2011
Tom, As is often the case, it's Tony Bingelis to the rescue (see attached article). I've gotta say that having access to the entire library of back issues of Sport Aviation, with "search" functions is practically worth the annual EAA membership fees. That only took about three minutes to find. Bill C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350219#350219 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/1989_05_13_146.pdf ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Trial Wing Fit
From: "caldwrl" <caldwrl(at)etex.net>
Date: Aug 22, 2011
Hey Gary, Wow, looks great. By my estimate, you are about six months ahead of me. I am completing the left wing this week, adding the safety shaft to the Corvair crank, and prepping it for the college at Barnwell in the fall. The right wing mod comes next, then I can fit them just as you are doing now. Hopefully I will be covering by late winter or early spring. Robert (in hot-as -hell Holly Lake) -------- Robert Caldwell Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350223#350223 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 22, 2011
From: "TOM STINEMETZE" <TOMS(at)mcpcity.com>
Subject: Re: Fuselage pass through sealing
Bill: Thanks for the article. I am less concerned about making devices to pass through a solid object like the firewall than I am passing through a cloth surface. Nevertheless, this will be a useful thing to have around. Tom >>> "Bill Church" 8/22/2011 10:43 AM >>> Tom, As is often the case, it's Tony Bingelis to the rescue (see attached article). I've gotta say that having access to the entire library of back issues of Sport Aviation, with "search" functions is practically worth the annual EAA membership fees. That only took about three minutes to find. Bill C. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Trial Wing Fit
From: gboothe5(at)comcast.net
Date: Aug 22, 2011
Yeah, hot as Hell is right! We've been watching... You really are making progress, though, and I'm glad you are going to Barnwell... Gary ------Original Message------ From: Robert Caldwell Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com ReplyTo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Trial Wing Fit Sent: Aug 22, 2011 8:57 AM Hey Gary, Wow, looks great. By my estimate, you are about six months ahead of me. I am completing the left wing this week, adding the safety shaft to the Corvair crank, and prepping it for the college at Barnwell in the fall. The right wing mod comes next, then I can fit them just as you are doing now. Hopefully I will be covering by late winter or early spring. Robert (in hot-as -hell Holly Lake) -------- Robert Caldwell Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350223#350223 Sent on the Sprint Now Network from my BlackBerry ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Idea about front cockpit side door
From: "giacummo" <mario.giacummo(at)gmail.com>
Date: Aug 22, 2011
folowing with the joint point, may be this could be the solution, not number by the moment, but it looks better than simple bolts, and have the adventage that it could be possible to reduce the bolts diameter. -------- Mario Giacummo http://vgmk1.blogspot.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350233#350233 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/p2_161.png ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Sign Off
From: "TriScout" <apfelcyber(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Aug 22, 2011
Thanks about the paint scheme Stinemetze.. I like it as well, but I cannot claim that idea. I bought the airframe a yr ago on Barnstormers. I just had to toss a motor and corkscrew upon it, then assemble it at the hangar for instant gratification. Even though that sounds simple, the ol' learning curve was literally climbing like a mountain goat from all the good advice shared ..as well as studying maintenance guides, etc.. After running into Kevin(and family), I'm beginning to see what you guys mean about the whole Piet/GN-1 community. It would be kinda neat to try the whole Brodhead thing next yr in it. Sadly, I'm already in CHS hauling off to Germany now.. Will be home for 2 wks starting Sept 12th. Will get it airborne then...whether it be Kevin, myself, etc.. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350235#350235 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fuselage pass through sealing
From: "kevinpurtee" <kevin.purtee(at)us.army.mil>
Date: Aug 22, 2011
Tom - You use a soldering iron to burn the hole in the fabric then you run the line or whatever through the hole. The hole is basically self-cauterizing. If you're worried about the aesthetics you can use a leather patch, a rubber grommet or even a hard plastic doo-dad to give a more finished look. -------- Kevin "Axel" Purtee NX899KP Austin/Georgetown, TX Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350238#350238 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 22, 2011
From: Doug Dever <helio400(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Idea about front cockpit side door
Why re invent the wheel.- Just buy Keri Ann's plans.- Proven design.- https://sites.google.com/site/pietenpolplanpackages/pietenpol-plan-package s=0A=0A=0AFrom: giacummo <mario.giacummo(at)gmail.com>=0ATo: pietenpol-list@ma tronics.com=0ASent: Monday, August 22, 2011 1:15 PM=0ASubject: Pietenpol-Li st: Re: Idea about front cockpit side door=0A=0A--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "giacummo" =0A=0Afolowing with the joi nt point, may be this could be the solution, not number by the moment, but it looks better than simple bolts, and have the adventage that it could be possible to reduce the bolts diameter.=0A=0A--------=0AMario Giacummo=0Ahtt p://vgmk1.blogspot.com=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp ://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350233#350233=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AAttac hments: =0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com//files/p2_161.png=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A_ -======================== ============= ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Sign Off
From: "TriScout" <apfelcyber(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Aug 22, 2011
attempted upload of Kevin taxiing Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350241#350241 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 22, 2011
From: "TOM STINEMETZE" <TOMS(at)mcpcity.com>
Subject: Re: Fuselage pass through sealing
Thanks Kevin. That's what I needed. Tom >>> "kevinpurtee" 8/22/2011 1:00 PM >>> Tom - You use a soldering iron to burn the hole in the fabric then you run the line or whatever through the hole. The hole is basically self-cauteriz ing. If you're worried about the aesthetics you can use a leather patch, a rubber grommet or even a hard plastic doo-dad to give a more finished look. -------- Kevin "Axel" Purtee NX899KP Austin/Georgetown, TX ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: prop progress
From: "bender" <jfaith(at)solairusaviation.com>
Date: Aug 22, 2011
first coat of spar varnish really made it shine.. jeff Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350245#350245 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/propvarn_639.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/hub_152.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: prop progress
From: "bender" <jfaith(at)solairusaviation.com>
Date: Aug 22, 2011
Hey Dan... i used metal punches...you don't have to hit too hard all the props i've seen look like they were punched too easy to do jeff Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350257#350257 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fuselage pass through sealing
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 22, 2011
Hi Tom, I never liked the glued-on leather patches that I saw at Brodhead (and othe r places). Inevitably the leather patch would start to peel off and curl up at the edges. Looked really ratty to me. So what I did is come up with a r eal innovative idea. I blatantly and unapologetically copied what I had see n someone else do. Glue a patch of leather on to the fabric, and then cover it with another patch of ceconite. Really works slick and will never look ratty. I think I copied this from Larry Williams?? Maybe?? Can't remember n ow. Dan Helsper Puryear, TN. -----Original Message----- From: TOM STINEMETZE <TOMS(at)mcpcity.com> Sent: Mon, Aug 22, 2011 1:25 pm Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Fuselage pass through sealing Thanks Kevin. That's what I needed. Tom >>> "kevinpurtee" 8/22/2011 1:00 PM >>> Tom - You use a soldering iron to burn the hole in the fabric then you run the line or whatever through the hole. The hole is basically self-cauteriz ing. If you're worried about the aesthetics you can use a leather patch, a rubber grommet or even a hard plastic doo-dad to give a more finished look . -------- Kevin "Axel" Purtee NX899KP Austin/Georgetown, TX -= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List - -======================== -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -======================== -= - List Contribution Web Site - -= Thank you for your generous support! -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution -======================== ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Fuselage pass through sealing
Date: Aug 22, 2011
I did much the same thing, but used a piece of aluminum with a slot in it for the cable, then sandwiched it between the fabric and a pinked-edge fabric patch, as seen below: Jack Phillips NX899JP Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of helspersew(at)aol.com Sent: Monday, August 22, 2011 7:57 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Fuselage pass through sealing Hi Tom, I never liked the glued-on leather patches that I saw at Brodhead (and other places). Inevitably the leather patch would start to peel off and curl up at the edges. Looked really ratty to me. So what I did is come up with a real innovative idea. I blatantly and unapologetically copied what I had seen someone else do. Glue a patch of leather on to the fabric, and then cover it with another patch of ceconite. Really works slick and will never look ratty. I think I copied this from Larry Williams?? Maybe?? Can't remember now. Dan Helsper Puryear, TN. -----Original Message----- From: TOM STINEMETZE <TOMS(at)mcpcity.com> Sent: Mon, Aug 22, 2011 1:25 pm Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Fuselage pass through sealing Thanks Kevin. That's what I needed. Tom >>> "kevinpurtee" 8/22/2011 1:00 PM >>> Tom - You use a soldering iron to burn the hole in the fabric then you run the line or whatever through the hole. The hole is basically self-cauterizing. If you're worried about the aesthetics you can use a leather patch, a rubber grommet or even a hard plastic doo-dad to give a more finished look. -------- Kevin "Axel" Purtee NX899KP Austin/Georgetown, TX " target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List p://forums.matronics.com blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Trial Wing Fit
From: "womenfly2" <Love2Fly.KAP(at)gmail.com>
Date: Aug 23, 2011
Nice job on the 3-piece wing. -------- Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350298#350298 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 23, 2011
From: "TOM STINEMETZE" <TOMS(at)mcpcity.com>
Subject: Re: Fuselage pass through sealing
Dan: That sounds like it would work great. The durability of leather but a look to match the rest of the paint scheme. I like it! Tom >>> 8/22/2011 6:56 PM >>> Glue a patch of leather on to the fabric, and then cover it with another patch of ceconite. Really works slick and will never look ratty. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Wooden Lift Struts
From: "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net>
Date: Aug 23, 2011
As mentioned in an earlier post, Jim Markle and I are gathering the materials necessary to construct our lift struts out of wood. I've done a little research on the matter and have found that several people have done this with good results... the latest being Axel Purtee, but others such as Douwe Blumberg, Wil Graf, Keri Ann Price, Paul Poulin and Allan Weise have also chosen this method. Before I push my shopping cart full of high dollar wood to the checkout lane... any thoughts on this approach? -------- Mark Chouinard Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350315#350315 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net>
Subject: Re: Idea about front cockpit side door
Date: Aug 23, 2011
I have a drawing that I wanted to present to the group, but my scanner/printer is not working properly. So I will have to try to describe the step in words rather than the picture. I'll try not to use 1000 words. :>) Under each seat sticking out of the fuselage is a retractable (telescoping) step. Each step consists of the following. The lelft side of the step is fastened to the lower. left longeron. Five inches into the fuselage is a 1X 1 X 5 block, parallel with the longeron, which supports the inner end of the step. The outside of the step consists of a piece of 3/4 dia tubing, .035 wall thickness, 6-1/8 inch long. The tubing is held to the longeron and 5-inch block with metal straps. Inside the outer tubing is a piece of 5/8 dia .035 wall tubing 11-3/8 inches long (plus a little to run an AN3 bolt with nut which acts as a stop.) On the left end of the smaller tube is welded a round plate 1-3/4 inch dia. (which acts as a stop to keep your foot from sliding off in the extended mode and a asstop at the fabric line in the retracted mode.) Thus in the extended mode you would have about a 5-1/2 inch step; in the retracted mode the round disk would be flat against the fabric of the fuselage. Hope that is clear -- I can't send a picture. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com> Sent: Monday, August 22, 2011 9:52 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Idea about front cockpit side door > > > Just one more option for a step. I saw this on a Grega, and I don't know > if that is an acceptable option for a step, or it creates stress on the > gear like a weld bar would. > > Not the look that I want, even if it is an acceptable option, but I > thought I would post it anyway. Your thoughts? > > -------- > Semper Fi, > > Terry Hand > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350196#350196 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/grega_step_132.png > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Wooden Lift Struts
From: gboothe5(at)comcast.net
Date: Aug 23, 2011
Mark, As you know, I'm not flying yet, but mine are laminated hickory. By ripping the boards and turning the grain pattern, you only need to find boards with close, straight grain. At home, I have a very thoughtful response from Cliff Dawson, about the strength of wood, that totally assuaged all my concerns. Gary From Cool ------Original Message------ From: K5YAC Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com ReplyTo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wooden Lift Struts Sent: Aug 23, 2011 8:30 AM As mentioned in an earlier post, Jim Markle and I are gathering the materials necessary to construct our lift struts out of wood. I've done a little research on the matter and have found that several people have done this with good results... the latest being Axel Purtee, but others such as Douwe Blumberg, Wil Graf, Keri Ann Price, Paul Poulin and Allan Weise have also chosen this method. Before I push my shopping cart full of high dollar wood to the checkout lane... any thoughts on this approach? -------- Mark Chouinard Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350315#350315 Sent on the Sprint Now Network from my BlackBerry ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Wooden Lift Struts
From: "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net>
Date: Aug 23, 2011
Thanks Gary... if you or Clif wouldn't mind, could you forward that information to me so I can read his notes too? I've already e-mailed Clif directly with a few more details on our proposed construction... perhaps he will see this and share those thoughts. gboothe5(at)comcast.net wrote: > Mark, > > As you know, I'm not flying yet, but mine are laminated hickory. By ripping the boards and turning the grain pattern, you only need to find boards with close, straight grain. At home, I have a very thoughtful response from Cliff Dawson, about the strength of wood, that totally assuaged all my concerns. > > Gary From Cool > --- -------- Mark Chouinard Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350325#350325 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Idea about front cockpit side door
From: "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Aug 23, 2011
Chuck, I like your idea, however, I am neither a graphic arts specialist nor an engineer as well. But I was thinking 2 additions- 1. Could you put a short L-shaped notch on the inside end of the larger diameter pipe, so you could pull the inner pipe with the AN Bolt screwed into it into the notch and turn it slightly to lock the step in place as it is in the extended position. 2. Could you somehow attach a small spring to the end of the pipe to give it a little tension in order to keep it retracted in flight. That way it would not possibly keep vibrating out into the open position. There is enough drag already without adding a pipe sticking out, even if it is small. Just my $.02, but I definitely like your idea. -------- Semper Fi, Terry Hand Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350326#350326 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Idea about front cockpit side door
From: Jack <jack(at)textors.com>
Date: Aug 23, 2011
Chuck take a picture of the drawing... Jack Textor Sent from my iPhone On Aug 23, 2011, at 10:52 AM, "Charles Campbell" wrote: > > I have a drawing that I wanted to present to the group, but my scanner/printer is not working properly. So I will have to try to describe the step in words rather than the picture. I'll try not to use 1000 words. :>) > > Under each seat sticking out of the fuselage is a retractable (telescoping) step. Each step consists of the following. The lelft side of the step is fastened to the lower. left longeron. Five inches into the fuselage is a 1X 1 X 5 block, parallel with the longeron, which supports the inner end of the step. The outside of the step consists of a piece of 3/4 dia tubing, .035 wall thickness, 6-1/8 inch long. The tubing is held to the longeron and 5-inch block with metal straps. Inside the outer tubing is a piece of 5/8 dia .035 wall tubing 11-3/8 inches long (plus a little to run an AN3 bolt with nut which acts as a stop.) On the left end of the smaller tube is welded a round plate 1-3/4 inch dia. (which acts as a stop to keep your foot from sliding off in the extended mode and a asstop at the fabric line in the retracted mode.) Thus in the extended mode you would have about a 5-1/2 inch step; in the retracted mode the round disk would be flat against the fabric of the fuselage. Hope that is clear -- I can't send a picture. Chuck > ----- Original Message ----- From: "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com> > To: > Sent: Monday, August 22, 2011 9:52 AM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Idea about front cockpit side door > > >> >> Just one more option for a step. I saw this on a Grega, and I don't know if that is an acceptable option for a step, or it creates stress on the gear like a weld bar would. >> >> Not the look that I want, even if it is an acceptable option, but I thought I would post it anyway. Your thoughts? >> >> -------- >> Semper Fi, >> >> Terry Hand >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350196#350196 >> >> >> >> >> Attachments: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com//files/grega_step_132.png >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 23, 2011
Subject: Venting fuel tanks
From: Don Rucker <don@ctg-it.com>
All, We have started planning our fuel system and have a few questions about venting. At this point all we have done is mock up the tanks with foam board. Here is a basic description of the fuel system as planned: We are welding up a 7-gallon aluminum header tank that will feed a C-0200. The header tank will be replenished from a 12-gallon center section tank. There will be a fuel shut off valve between the header tank and the gascolator with the valve stem extended to reach the pilot. There will be a shut off valve in-line, within pilot reach, between the center section tank and the header tank. During an engine out landing, onto an unfriendly field, forrest, etc, I want to be able to shut off both tanks as close to the tanks as possible to protect against fuel flowing from a broken line. For now I am thinking just a simple stick type float gauge on the header tank. The gauge should not begin to move until the center section is empty. With the possible exception of Broadhead I doubt legs will be flown longer than the center section will provide for. For those of you flying with this type gauge a question: does the pressure from the slipstream prevent them from falling correctly? Would you use this type of gauge again? (Yes, I know time and power settings are the only reliable way to calculate fuel remaining but a gauge is still nice) I have noticed a number of Piets with vented caps, a number with vents positioned here and there, and number that appear to have both. I want to vent each tank separately to allow the header tank to continue to work if the center section fuel valve is closed for whatever reason. So, where and how to vent are the questions. Thoughts? Thanks, Don www.firstwings.net (the website is a year out of date. We will update it soon) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 23, 2011
From: "TOM STINEMETZE" <TOMS(at)mcpcity.com>
Subject: Re: Venting fuel tanks
Don: Chuck Gantzer from Wichita has a similar system that he described to me early on. He stated that the fuel from the center section tank would overfill the header tank and leak out the vent which just happened to be directly in front of him. Not a good situation. He was using a sliding fuel guage with some type of cork float and the fuel would come out around the guage wire. I would suggest that if you pursue this type of system, the header tank should seal tightly and have a separate vent line that would be up near the height of the vent line for the center section tank. My $ 0.02. Tom Stinemetze >>> Don Rucker <don@ctg-it.com> 8/23/2011 4:06 PM >>> I have noticed a number of Piets with vented caps, a number with vents positioned here and there, and number that appear to have both. I want to vent each tank separately to allow the header tank to continue to work if the center section fuel valve is closed for whatever reason. So, where and how to vent are the questions. Thoughts? ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Wooden Lift Struts
From: "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net>
Date: Aug 23, 2011
I knew it... this is exactly the kind of response I expected. I'm going to go hang out with Recine. kevinpurtee wrote: > You and Markle are going to die, Mark. -------- Mark Chouinard Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350356#350356 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net>
Subject: Re: Idea about front cockpit side door
Date: Aug 23, 2011
Terry, it was not my idea! I got a bunch of prints of different things somewhere and this print was among them. I suspect that it was originally part of the GN-1 plans. I'm not sure of that but someone drew up the idea. Jack Trexor suggested that I take a picture of the print which I will try. If it works out I will post it. Your suggestions sound great to me. ----- Original Message ----- From: "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com> Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2011 12:28 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Idea about front cockpit side door > > > Chuck, > > I like your idea, however, I am neither a graphic arts specialist nor an > engineer as well. But I was thinking 2 additions- > > 1. Could you put a short L-shaped notch on the inside end of the larger > diameter pipe, so you could pull the inner pipe with the AN Bolt screwed > into it into the notch and turn it slightly to lock the step in place as > it is in the extended position. > > 2. Could you somehow attach a small spring to the end of the pipe to give > it a little tension in order to keep it retracted in flight. That way it > would not possibly keep vibrating out into the open position. There is > enough drag already without adding a pipe sticking out, even if it is > small. > > Just my $.02, but I definitely like your idea. > > -------- > Semper Fi, > > Terry Hand > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350326#350326 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Venting fuel tanks
From: Hans Van Der Voort <hvandervoo(at)aol.com>
Date: Aug 23, 2011
Have the header tank vent in to the filler neck of your center section tank . Aeronca's have it that way. If you use separate vents they must be at the same height and location. I did have them at same height but had header tank vent at leading edge of wing (high pressure) and the center tank at 30% cord,.....low pressure area. Gues what will happen at 65 Mph? Your header tank will not fill ! Some things are learned the hard way The Aeronca way is best way to do this system Hans NX15KV -----Original Message----- From: TOM STINEMETZE <TOMS(at)mcpcity.com> Sent: Tue, Aug 23, 2011 4:19 pm Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Venting fuel tanks Don: Chuck Gantzer from Wichita has a similar system that he described to me ear ly on. He stated that the fuel from the center section tank would overfill the header tank and leak out the vent which just happened to be directly i n front of him. Not a good situation. He was using a sliding fuel guage w ith some type of cork float and the fuel would come out around the guage wi re. I would suggest that if you pursue this type of system, the header tank sho uld seal tightly and have a separate vent line that would be up near the he ight of the vent line for the center section tank. My $ 0.02. Tom Stinemetze >>> Don Rucker <don@ctg-it.com> 8/23/2011 4:06 PM >>> I have noticed a number of Piets with vented caps, a number with vents posi tioned here and there, and number that appear to have both. I want to vent each tank separately to allow the header tank to continue to work if the ce nter section fuel valve is closed for whatever reason. So, where and how to vent are the questions. Thoughts? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gboothe5" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Venting fuel tanks
Date: Aug 23, 2011
FYI.T-crafts have wing tanks that drain into the 12 gallon nose tank, which merely has a wire float. Allowing the wing tank to over fill the nose tank will cause fuel to spew from the vent area in the nose, but there is really no reason why an alert pilot would do that.not that I ever have. :-0 In the case of the T-craft, the main tank is the nose tank, and therefore contains the fuel gauge. One could do the opposite.gauge the wing tank, but then you really don't know what's in the main tank. FAR's require that you have some sort of fuel gauge.but they don't require that you use it. The Great Axel Purtee has a wire gauge on his wing tank (that he can't really see), so the rumor is that he flies by time.what a novel idea.but, then, he's a pro. Gary From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of TOM STINEMETZE Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2011 2:17 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Venting fuel tanks Don: Chuck Gantzer from Wichita has a similar system that he described to me early on. He stated that the fuel from the center section tank would overfill the header tank and leak out the vent which just happened to be directly in front of him. Not a good situation. He was using a sliding fuel guage with some type of cork float and the fuel would come out around the guage wire. I would suggest that if you pursue this type of system, the header tank should seal tightly and have a separate vent line that would be up near the height of the vent line for the center section tank. My $ 0.02. Tom Stinemetze >>> Don Rucker <don@ctg-it.com> 8/23/2011 4:06 PM >>> I have noticed a number of Piets with vented caps, a number with vents positioned here and there, and number that appear to have both. I want to vent each tank separately to allow the header tank to continue to work if the center section fuel valve is closed for whatever reason. So, where and how to vent are the questions. Thoughts? ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Spruce vs. ?????
From: "mike79wall" <mwall(at)mainstaycomm.net>
Date: Aug 23, 2011
Hello all! Just recently joined this forum, and have a few questions. They are of the "newbie" order, so take it easy on me. A friend of mine and I are beginning the process of building a Piet. We have a few questions, as we plan our build. 1) Is there an effective alternative to Sitka Spruce? Here in Nebraska, Sitka is a bit difficult to come by. 2) As I am a cabinet maker utilizing a CNC Machine, does anyone cut wing ribs out of plywood? Drawing and cutting could be a fun project for myself. Thanks for your attention, I'm sure we'll all be good friends by the end of our build. Mike Wall Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350361#350361 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 23, 2011
Subject: RE: Venting fuel tanks
From: Don Rucker <don@ctg-it.com>
Tom, Thank you, what was I thinking! Yes that is exactly what would happen. I can not believe that did not occur to me. Perhaps it could still work if I extended the header vent out the top of the center section and only opened the center tank valve to manually replenish fuel burned form the header every hour or so. As you point out leaving the header sealed except for the vent (placed above the center tank) would also work but refueling would take awhile. Thanks again for your reply, Don ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Venting fuel tanks
From: "kevinpurtee" <kevin.purtee(at)us.army.mil>
Date: Aug 23, 2011
@Gary - I have a small mirror (shaped amazingly like Hello Kitty) on a lanyard in the cockpit so I can check the gage in flight. I have done so, but not very often. Typically, I use the mirror to make sure I actually reinstalled the gas cap or to check the fuel level when doing lots of little short hops, like giving rides. -------- Kevin "Axel" Purtee NX899KP Austin/Georgetown, TX Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350364#350364 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/kitty_112.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Spruce vs. ?????
From: "kevinpurtee" <kevin.purtee(at)us.army.mil>
Date: Aug 23, 2011
Hi Mike and welcome. Take a look at the archive feature on this list. Also, Dan Yocum recently gave instructions on how to use Google to be very precise in searching the archives. Take a look through the last dozen posts or so and you'll find his post. Again, welcome, and start planning to attend Brodhead in 2012. -------- Kevin "Axel" Purtee NX899KP Austin/Georgetown, TX Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350368#350368 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Wooden Lift Struts
From: "kevinpurtee" <kevin.purtee(at)us.army.mil>
Date: Aug 23, 2011
Thank you, Ryan! do not arhcive -------- Kevin "Axel" Purtee NX899KP Austin/Georgetown, TX Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350369#350369 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 23, 2011
From: <r.r.hall(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Spruce vs. ?????
Generally Douglas fir can be used for Spruce. It won't be as light but is a little stronger. Often Douglas fir can be found locally but be sure you know what to look for as far as quality. Study the material on rings per inch and runout, grain etc. I found some for my project that was really good but I had to search through 3 piles of 2X4s to find it. Rodney Hall ---- mike79wall wrote: > > Hello all! > > Just recently joined this forum, and have a few questions. They are of the "newbie" order, so take it easy on me. A friend of mine and I are beginning the process of building a Piet. We have a few questions, as we plan our build. > > 1) Is there an effective alternative to Sitka Spruce? Here in Nebraska, Sitka is a bit difficult to come by. > > 2) As I am a cabinet maker utilizing a CNC Machine, does anyone cut wing ribs out of plywood? Drawing and cutting could be a fun project for myself. > > Thanks for your attention, I'm sure we'll all be good friends by the end of our build. > > Mike Wall > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350361#350361 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack" <jack(at)textors.com>
Subject: Upper Engine Mounts
Date: Aug 23, 2011
For those Engineers and flying Piet owners I would appreciate some advice. I made my upper engine mounts per plans with the exception they are .090 4130. The plans call for 14 gauge steel (.080 I believe). I read an article last night by Mr. Pietenpol where he stated one change he would suggest for those installing C-65's (mine is a C-85) would be to lengthen the mounts 3 inches. I've attached a drawing showing the change. I'm planning to make the modification unless those in the know think I'm nuts. Thanks, Jack DSM ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Spruce vs. ?????
From: "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca>
Date: Aug 23, 2011
Hi Mike, Welcome to the forum. When it comes to choosing wood for their Piets, a lot of builders seem to spend an inordinate amount of time trying to save a few bucks. If Sitka is ordered pre-cut from Aircraft Spruce, that wood will likely only account for 10% (or less) of the total materials cost for the finished project. If you manage to find a local source of a suitable alternate wood, and select and grade it, and rip it yourself, you could reduce that percentage to 3 or 4%... for a total savings of $600 or $700 (or, in other terms, maybe 10 tanks of AV Gas). Not that $600 is an amount to sneeze at - it's just that the cost of Sitka (or Douglas Fir, or Poplar, or Hemlock or whatever) is not one of the most expensive components of the plane. Actually, shipping of all of your supplies will likely account for more than the cost of the wood - maybe THAT is where to look for savings. If aircraft builders only built with locally available wood species, only those on the extreme west coast would build with Sitka. Wood can be shipped almost anywhere. Now, having said all that, I purchased my wood (Sitka) locally, from a specialty wood supplier, in rough plank form, and ripped all of my wood on my table saw. But then, I enjoy woodworking, so I didn't mind the extra work required to do all that sawing. As for your question about the ribs, it probably has been done at some point over the past 80 years that people have been building Pietenpols, but it won't be cheaper, and it won't be stronger, and it won't likely be lighter than the plans-built truss ribs. Bill C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350379#350379 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Wooden Lift Struts
From: "cjborsuk" <cjborsuk(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Aug 23, 2011
Mark, I am glad you asked the question. The picture below is the solid spruce I would like to use for my struts. Any thoughts from all the good people?? Chuck in Raleigh NC N899CB Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350380#350380 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/spruce_struts_873.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Spruce vs. ?????
From: "bender" <jfaith(at)solairusaviation.com>
Date: Aug 23, 2011
i'm a big fan of poplar... but i've used other wood too... fir spars and white pine in a place or too i think stick built ribs are fun.. and pretty easy.... it takes me about a half hour to make one jeff Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350383#350383 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Upper Engine Mounts
From: "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca>
Date: Aug 23, 2011
Hey Jack, I believe that Mr Pietenpol already extended those upper mounts. The original mounts for the Ford Model A are shorter than the drawings you attached (from the supplemental plans). And if you look at the plan sheet for the Continental mount, you'll see basically the same detail, but with a note that says .090 (sound familiar?). I'd say you're okay to use the plans without modification. By the way, nobody THINKS you're nuts ... :) Bill C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350384#350384 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack" <jack(at)textors.com>
Subject: Re: Wooden Lift Struts
Date: Aug 23, 2011
Chuck, First I'm not an Engineer, A&P, IA or an authority on wood stress properties. I built a laminated spar because those that did know about these properties told me it was stronger than a solid spar. Again, not an authority, I was concerned about hidden flaws in the wood and the laminated spar helped with that concern. Jack DSM -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of cjborsuk Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2011 7:27 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wooden Lift Struts Mark, I am glad you asked the question. The picture below is the solid spruce I would like to use for my struts. Any thoughts from all the good people?? Chuck in Raleigh NC N899CB Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350380#350380 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/spruce_struts_873.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Idea about front cockpit side door
From: "giacummo" <mario.giacummo(at)gmail.com>
Date: Aug 23, 2011
Is somebody/someone (how you say that? one/body.. I always forgot it) realy interested in this "other" solution?. I was looking just for the Piet plans and in particular the point the engine supports are fixed. In this 4 point there is a lot of forces playing when the airlen take down, and there are simple bolts joins; the iron pieces could be bigger or smaller.. I do not know, but there are lot's of holes where the longerons end.. and it work fine!!!!! I think the moment that this point play there major work is when the airplane touch down... the engine want to go dow still, so there is a great traction force applied to the upper joins.. I am ok?... now thinking in the longeron suggestes door, i think the forces are slower than that's of the engine mount point. Am I wrong?.. I am just playing with dynamic and statcis forces... Let's burn some more neurons... ;0) good night -------- Mario Giacummo http://vgmk1.blogspot.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350392#350392 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Clif Dawson" <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Wooden Lift Struts
Date: Aug 23, 2011
It's a good thing you still have it because my 'pooter has disappeared the thing! How about sending it on to Mark for me. Thanks Gary. Clif - STILL workin' on brakes! > At home, I have a very thoughtful response from Cliff Dawson, about the strength of wood, that totally assuaged all my concerns. > > Gary From Cool > As mentioned in an earlier post, Jim Markle and I are gathering the > materials necessary to construct our lift struts out of wood. > Before I > push my shopping cart full of high dollar wood to the checkout lane... any > thoughts on this approach? > > -------- > Mark Chouinard > Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Clif Dawson" <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: spruce alternatives
Date: Aug 23, 2011
Go here and down the page about 3/4. Two charts on wood properties. http://www.clifdawson.ca/Homepage4-10-06/Tools_and_Tips.html ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Wooden Lift Struts
From: "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net>
Date: Aug 23, 2011
Yeah, please do that when you get time Gary. cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca wrote: > It's a good thing you still have it because my 'pooter has disappeared the thing! > > How about sending it on to Mark for me. > Cool Gary wrote: > > At home, I have a very thoughtful response from Cliff Dawson, about the strength of wood, that totally assuaged all my concerns. > -------- Mark Chouinard Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350402#350402 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Florida sales tax
From: "kaliya" <narayan.prolix(at)gmail.com>
Date: Aug 23, 2011
oh! nice web page , Relay fantastic This site use full to all around the would, use it develop both......... Camper Van For Sales (http://www.campervanforsales.com.au/) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350407#350407 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au>
Subject: RE: Venting fuel tanks
Date: Aug 24, 2011
Don, I made my system in a similar way to Hans. I originally vented the header tank with the vent at center section tank height with the vent pointing forward. That created too much pressure in the header tank and would not fill from the center section. Next I pointed in the opposite direction and that syphoned the fuel out over the wing. I ended up putting the vent inside the center section tank as Hans did. That work a treat. I only had a fuel contents gauge on the center section tank. When that ran out it was time to land! Cheers Peter Wonthaggi Australia http://www.cpc-world.com From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don Rucker Sent: Wednesday, 24 August 2011 8:31 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: RE: Venting fuel tanks Tom, Thank you, what was I thinking! Yes that is exactly what would happen. I can not believe that did not occur to me. Perhaps it could still work if I extended the header vent out the top of the center section and only opened the center tank valve to manually replenish fuel burned form the header every hour or so. As you point out leaving the header sealed except for the vent (placed above the center tank) would also work but refueling would take awhile. Thanks again for your reply, Don ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Spruce vs. ?????
From: Wayne Bressler <wayne(at)taildraggersinc.com>
Date: Aug 24, 2011
If I remember correctly, douglas fir is 23% heavier than spruce, so that's worthless weight... With any light-weight, low-power aircraft, any increase in empty weight is significant. Why add worthless weight just to save a few bucks or time during building? You'll be lugging that dead weight around every time you go flying. Build it light (regardless of your wood choice), and you'll be very happy with your decision. If you don't have it already, consider buying a copy of the EAA book on building with wood. Oh, and let me be the first to mention getting a set of Tony Bingelis books. They'll answer most of your questions, and be a great resource throughout your build. Good luck, and post pictures. Wayne Bressler Taildraggers, Inc. www.taildraggersinc.com On Aug 23, 2011, at 6:27 PM, "mike79wall" wrote: > > Hello all! > > Just recently joined this forum, and have a few questions. They are of the "newbie" order, so take it easy on me. A friend of mine and I are beginning the process of building a Piet. We have a few questions, as we plan our build. > > 1) Is there an effective alternative to Sitka Spruce? Here in Nebraska, Sitka is a bit difficult to come by. > > 2) As I am a cabinet maker utilizing a CNC Machine, does anyone cut wing ribs out of plywood? Drawing and cutting could be a fun project for myself. > > Thanks for your attention, I'm sure we'll all be good friends by the end of our build. > > Mike Wall > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350361#350361 > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 24, 2011
From: "TOM STINEMETZE" <TOMS(at)mcpcity.com>
Subject: RE: Venting fuel tanks
Don: You could still have a good, tight-fitting fuel cap on the header tank. Just remember to fill the header and close it off FIRST, before filling the wing tank. If the vent opening was up as high as the vent on the wing tank you would not have a problem. I like the earlier suggestion of routing the vent to the filler neck on the wing tank. That makes a lot of sense to me. Tom Stinemetze >>> Don Rucker <don@ctg-it.com> 8/23/2011 5:30 PM >>> As you point out leaving the header sealed except for the vent (placed above the center tank) would also work but refueling would take awhile. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Venting fuel tanks
From: "Pieti Lowell" <Lowellcfrank(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Aug 24, 2011
Of 4 Piets that I have owned, they all had a wing center section tank with a cap vent , that extended up 1" above the cap, IMPORTANT , This fuel line had a shut-off located on the right cabane for pilot access, the fuel line went to the gas-o-later with a "T" to the header tank which had a shut-off, operated from the rear cockpit, for refueling during flight. Once in a while you will forget to shut-off the top tank, but the gas smell will tell you quickly to turn the valve off. I use the float in- cap Gage in the header cap, the clearance around the float wire is all the venting required to keep fuel moving in the correct direction. I tried to vent the top filler vent on the neck of the tank filler and the fuel would not flow to the header tank, unless you would almost stall the wing to lower the negative pressure. Pieti Lowell Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350416#350416 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Upper Engine Mounts
From: Hans Van Der Voort <hvandervoo(at)aol.com>
Date: Aug 24, 2011
I would extend it 1/4" forward (short end) To give it some clearance for Stainless Firewall with Fibrefrax backing. Hans NX15KV -----Original Message----- From: Jack <jack(at)textors.com> Sent: Tue, Aug 23, 2011 7:18 pm Subject: Pietenpol-List: Upper Engine Mounts For those Engineers and flying Piet owners I would appreciate some advice. I made my upper engine mounts per plans with the exception they are .090 4 130. The plans call for 14 gauge steel (.080 I believe). I read an articl e last night by Mr. Pietenpol where he stated one change he would suggest f or those installing C-65=99s (mine is a C-85) would be to lengthen th e mounts 3 inches. I=99ve attached a drawing showing the change. I =99m planning to make the modification unless those in the know think I=99m nuts. Thanks, Jack DSM <<...>> ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 24, 2011
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Spruce vs. ?????
Hello and welcome. If buying sitka in bulk works for you as it did for myse lf, consider buying from places like Public Lumber or another suitable plac e. I ordered all my spruce form Public and another vendor, (can't remember who at the moment) right off the internet. You can select various thickness es, widths and lengths. Shipping was fair and it arrived in under a week. -I enjoyed taking the rough cut bulk and making it into usable pieces of nice spruce. Michael Perez =0AKaretaker Aero =0Awww.karetakeraero.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Wooden Lift Struts
From: "cjborsuk" <cjborsuk(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Aug 24, 2011
I remember Clif's analysis found that solid spruce has more than enough strength to handle the job. Am I remembering this correctly? Chuck 899CB Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350421#350421 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Spruce vs. ?????
From: Wayne Bressler <wayne(at)taildraggersinc.com>
Date: Aug 24, 2011
Michael, Are you using quarter-sawn as shown on the Public Lumber website, or do they allow you to choose cut, grain run-out, etc? http://www.publiclumber.com/store/pc/2X6-8-Quarter-Sawn-Sitka-Spruce-39p6685 .htm Wayne Bressler Taildraggers, Inc. www.taildraggersinc.com On Aug 24, 2011, at 9:33 AM, Michael Perez wrote: > > Hello and welcome. If buying sitka in bulk works for you as it did for mys elf, consider buying from places like Public Lumber or another suitable plac e. I ordered all my spruce form Public and another vendor, (can't remember w ho at the moment) right off the internet. You can select various thicknesses , widths and lengths. Shipping was fair and it arrived in under a week. > > I enjoyed taking the rough cut bulk and making it into usable pieces of n ice spruce. > > Michael Perez > Karetaker Aero > www.karetakeraero.com > > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Wooden Lift Struts
From: "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net>
Date: Aug 24, 2011
Hmm, if spruce is plenty good and laminated spruce is stronger... giddy up! Wait a minute... Chuck says, "I remember" followed by, "Am I remembering correctly?" Jack says, "not an authority" Crap, I guess I'll roll my dragon dice. [Rolling Eyes] cjborsuk wrote: > I remember Clif's analysis found that solid spruce has more than enough strength to handle the job. Am I remembering this correctly? > jack@textors wrote: > I built a laminated spar because those that did know about these properties told me it was stronger than a solid spar. Again, not an > authority... -------- Mark Chouinard Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350433#350433 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Wooden Lift Struts
From: gboothe5(at)comcast.net
Date: Aug 24, 2011
Li4uT3IganVzdCByZWx5IG9uIGVtcGlyaWNhbCBldmlkZW5jZSwgdG8gdXNlIGEgSG9mZm1hbiB0 ZXJtLiBXb29kIHN0cnV0cyBhcmUgbm90aGluZyBuZXcuDQoNCkdhcnkNClNlbnQgb24gdGhlIFNw cmludK4gTm93IE5ldHdvcmsgZnJvbSBteSBCbGFja0JlcnJ5rg0KDQotLS0tLU9yaWdpbmFsIE1l c3NhZ2UtLS0tLQ0KRnJvbTogIlRPTSBTVElORU1FVFpFIiA8VE9NU0BtY3BjaXR5LmNvbT4NClNl bmRlcjogb3duZXItcGlldGVucG9sLWxpc3Qtc2VydmVyQG1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20NCkRhdGU6IFdl ZCwgMjQgQXVnIDIwMTEgMDk6NDY6NTIgDQpUbzogPHBpZXRlbnBvbC1saXN0QG1hdHJvbmljcy5j b20+DQpSZXBseS1UbzogcGlldGVucG9sLWxpc3RAbWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbVN1YmplY3Q6IFBpZXRl bnBvbC1MaXN0OiBSZTogV29vZGVuIExpZnQgU3RydXRzDQoNClRoaXMgaXMgYSBNSU1FIG1lc3Nh Z2UuIElmIHlvdSBhcmUgcmVhZGluZyB0aGlzIHRleHQsIHlvdSBtYXkgd2FudCB0byANCmNvbnNp ZGVyIGNoYW5naW5nIHRvIGEgbWFpbCByZWFkZXIgb3IgZ2F0ZXdheSB0aGF0IHVuZGVyc3RhbmRz IGhvdyB0byANCnByb3Blcmx5IGhhbmRsZSBNSU1FIG11bHRpcGFydCBtZXNzYWdlcy4NCg0K ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Spruce vs. ?????
From: "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net>
Date: Aug 24, 2011
Welcome Mike! As others have said... order spruce. Be light, be happy and move on. There are plenty of time consuming tasks to choose from. Don't worry, you'll get plenty of opportunity to saw, re-saw, sand, plane, etc. Enjoy the process and keep us posted. -------- Mark Chouinard Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350440#350440 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Wooden Lift Struts
From: "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net>
Date: Aug 24, 2011
I like that one... gboothe5(at)comcast.net wrote: > Wood struts are nothing new. -------- Mark Chouinard Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350443#350443 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Wooden Lift Struts
From: "cjborsuk" <cjborsuk(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Aug 24, 2011
Well now, I guess that covers it. Clear as mud! I didn't know Eisenstein built a Piet, I didn't even know he was a pilot. Man, I have got to get out some more. Too much time in the basement. Chuck :? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350444#350444 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Wooden Lift Struts
From: "cjborsuk" <cjborsuk(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Aug 24, 2011
or Einstein either! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350445#350445 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 24, 2011
Subject: Re: Wooden Lift Struts
From: mark lee <mlmarkelee7(at)gmail.com>
Speaking of spruce. Is everyone happy with what they have been getting.We know the price is of course high. But how is the quality. On Wed, Aug 24, 2011 at 8:28 AM, cjborsuk wrote: > > or Einstein either! > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350445#350445 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Wooden Lift Struts
From: "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net>
Date: Aug 24, 2011
I had one issue with my materials that I won't publish again because the company totally took care of the problem... all I will say is inspect your material, as you should be doing anyway. Otherwise, I have been real happy with the spruce I've purchased... it is straight grained, straight cut and beautiful. -------- Mark Chouinard Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350454#350454 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Wooden Lift Struts
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 24, 2011
Well, I am sure y'all have been waiting for me to chime in on this important topi c, since, as most of you all know, I do have access to the authoritative in formation on this and all other topics Pietenpol. But for all those new to this list, I will inform. Being the official keeper (a great burden really) of the lost BHP papers, I can, and am most willing to, investigate these s ubjects, but as most of you also know, I can only open the hermetically sea led jar but once every spring (in May to be exact). You know, I can't understand how year after year, the entire month of May c omes and goes, without any inquiries of this type. Hmmmmmmm...... I guess you guys really don't care what BHP was thinking. Dan Helsper Puryear, TN -----Original Message----- From: K5YAC <hangar10(at)cox.net> Sent: Wed, Aug 24, 2011 9:38 am Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wooden Lift Struts Hmm, if spruce is plenty good and laminated spruce is stronger... giddy up! Wait a minute... Chuck says, "I remember" followed by, "Am I remembering orrectly?" Jack says, "not an authority" Crap, I guess I'll roll my dragon dice. [Rolling Eyes] cjborsuk wrote: I remember Clif's analysis found that solid spruce has more than enough trength to handle the job. Am I remembering this correctly? jack@textors wrote: I built a laminated spar because those that did know about these propertie s old me it was stronger than a solid spar. Again, not an authority... ------- ark Chouinard ings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage ead this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350433#350433 -= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List - -======================== -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -======================== -= - List Contribution Web Site - -= Thank you for your generous support! -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution -======================== ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Wooden Lift Struts
From: "Kringle" <Mrkringles(at)msn.com>
Date: Aug 24, 2011
I picked up my spar material from A/C Spruce in Oshkosh and the wood was beautiful. No complaints here. -------- John Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350457#350457 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 24, 2011
From: "TOM STINEMETZE" <TOMS(at)mcpcity.com>
Subject: Flight video
As promised a while back, I have finally been able to post a part of my flight with Kevin Purtee in his Corvair powered Piet. This is actually only about 1/3 of the total video but even this took about 3-hours to upload to YouTube. Best Part - you don't have to look at either me or Kevin in the whole thing. No excuses but this was the first time I used this video camara and the photography shows it. Without furthere adeu... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZOuQTUd7K8 Tom Stinemetze N328X ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Wooden Lift Struts
From: "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net>
Date: Aug 24, 2011
Perhaps it's that we don't care for your interpretation of what BHP was thinking. Darn purists. I kiiiid, I kiiiid. helspersew(at)aol.com wrote: > Well, > > I am sure y'all have been waiting for me to chime in on this important topic, since, as most of you all know, I do have access to the authoritative information on this and all other topics Pietenpol. But for all those new to this list, I will inform. Being the official keeper (a great burden really) of the lost BHP papers, I can, and am most willing to, investigate these subjects, but as most of you also know, I can only open the hermetically sealed jar but once every spring (in May to be exact). > > You know, I can't understand how year after year, the entire month of May comes and goes, without any inquiries of this type. Hmmmmmmm..... I guess you guys really don't care what BHP was thinking. > > Dan Helsper > Puryear, TN > > > > > > -- -------- Mark Chouinard Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350465#350465 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Wooden Lift Struts
From: "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca>
Date: Aug 24, 2011
Is this a general question, or are you referring to a specific supplier? You can get spruce from aircraft supply houses, or specialty wood suppliers, and you can also get spruce from the big box building supply stores. Obviously a wide range of "quality" will be found. > mlmarkelee7(at)gmail.com > Guest > > Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 8:57 am Post subject: Wooden Lift Struts > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Speaking of spruce. Is everyone happy with what they have been getting.We know the price is of course high. But how is the quality. > > Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350470#350470 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 24, 2011
Subject: RE: Venting fuel tanks
From: Don Rucker <don@ctg-it.com>
Thanks to everyone that offered views to my vent question. You likely saved me a good deal of trouble. The corrected fuel system plan now has the header tank venting into the filler neck of the center tank. The center tank will be used to replenish the header tank by opening the center valve as needed. Thanks, Don ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Greg Cardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Flight video
Date: Aug 24, 2011
I love the tight, steep, curved approach to the runway. That is some of the most fun flying with a Pietenpol. Greg Cardinal ----- Original Message ----- From: TOM STINEMETZE To: Matronics Pietenpol List Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2011 1:13 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Flight video As promised a while back, I have finally been able to post a part of my flight with Kevin Purtee in his Corvair powered Piet. This is actually only about 1/3 of the total video but even this took about 3-hours to upload to YouTube. Best Part - you don't have to look at either me or Kevin in the whole thing. No excuses but this was the first time I used this video camara and the photography shows it. Without furthere adeu... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZOuQTUd7K8 Tom Stinemetze N328X ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Flight video
From: "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net>
Date: Aug 24, 2011
I'm a dumb ass for not taking a ride when it was offered. I guess I was afraid being a permanent fixture in his airplane. -------- Mark Chouinard Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350487#350487 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 24, 2011
Subject: Re: Wooden Lift Struts
From: mark lee <mlmarkelee7(at)gmail.com>
No that was just a general question. I know that spruce is very slow growing and only a small amount is of usable quality. I would expect it to be expensive due to sorting,milling,shipping etc. Sounds like people are still mostly happy with the quality from the reputable suppliers. There has been some valid points made that a Pietenpol may be a poor choice for me. So I'm looking into everything as much as possible. One of the few things that is a given would be the use of spruce in most of the plane. How much of a weight savings is there in using aluminum in the struts etc? On Wed, Aug 24, 2011 at 12:08 PM, Bill Church wrote: > billspiet(at)sympatico.ca> > > Is this a general question, or are you referring to a specific supplier? > You can get spruce from aircraft supply houses, or specialty wood > suppliers, and you can also get spruce from the big box building supply > stores. Obviously a wide range of "quality" will be found. > > > > mlmarkelee7(at)gmail.com > > Guest > > > > Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 8:57 am Post subject: Wooden Lift Struts > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > Speaking of spruce. Is everyone happy with what they have been getting.We > know the price is of course high. But how is the quality. > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350470#350470 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: John Hofmann <jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc.com>
Subject: Sharing the Wealth
Date: Aug 24, 2011
Saturday was a good day for 502Rocket. I got to share the joy with Amy Gesch. Amy is 20 and completely bitten by the aviation bug. She is a Cub junkie and interned at Dakota Cub this Summer. I have known her since she started hanging around HXF in 2008. Saturday, Hartford was the sight of the pig roast around the birthday of Steve Krog's assistant Dana. Unbeknownst to us she and her significant other Paul, decided to tie the knot at lunch. Nobody knew ahead of time. It was very cool. Their little farmette is adjacent to the airport so a bunch of us went back, grabbed our planes and headed over for an impromptu flour bomb drop. I had bombardier Rachel with me and we made some "daring low level passes" while she aimed for the cone in the back yard. I think she hit a goat, a small boy and the side of the house. If you were to stay safe, you needed to stand where the cone was. After the carpet bombing, we headed back over to the house and there was Amy. I had not seen her all year so we caught up and I found out she was leaving for school the next day. I said if she wanted to fly the Piet then we would have to go back now. She said okay and off we went. I put her in the front, took off and handed over the controls. She is a smooth flyer. We did three stalls and she wanted to follow me through a landing. After that I said she should fly the pattern a bit so she took off and we did three circuits. When we landed, I said she might as well jump in back and solo. She she did three times around and had a huge grin on her face that this little plane provides. Here are a couple of photos. She had one of them posted to Facebook before I had the airplane back in the hangar. -john- John Hofmann Vice-President, Information Technology The Rees Group, Inc. 2424 American Lane Madison, WI 53704 Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150 Fax: 608.443.2474 Email: jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: flying my 95 year old uncle around in the Piet...
From: "ldmill" <lorin.miller(at)emerson.com>
Date: Aug 24, 2011
Cherished Memories. Yes - I did it. I stuffed my 95 year old great uncle into a plane designed 80+ years ago that many 30 year olds have trouble getting into... Went down to the old home town of Wellman, Iowa to visit uncle Glenn - the guy responsible for my career choice and brother to my grand-father who was responsible for my flying addiction. Little did I know that he had already told everybody in town that he was going for a flight in my plane!! When I got there, he was jumping around like a teenager looking over my "contraption", "huh - that thing really flys!". He took me out for breakfast then literally dragged me back to the private strip, popped in the front cockpit (yes - I DO like the door, thank you), stuck the leather helmet on his head - and off we went putt-putting around the land that has been his home stomping ground since prior to WW1. As we'd get close to something important, he'd gesture down energetically and grin. It was a grand hour of buzzing barns (literally barnstorming !), waving at people who came outside to see what the noise was, and looking at old farmsteads that he grew up in or lived in, many of which are now abandoned or razed. Getting uncle Glenn out of the plane wasn't as easy as getting in. He was a little tuckered, but was all smiles and I had a hard time getting a word in edgewise. His daughter was there and had taken several photo's of the event - which eventually made their way into the local paper with a nice article written around them. Uncle Glenn still drives himself to work every day at the business he started sometime wayyy over 50 years ago and still owns (he's an electrician), has been married to the same lady for almost 75 years - who lives at home with him and is just as energetic around the house as he is. I grew up in his shop watching him and my grandpa work on all things electrical - guess that's why I eventually became an electrical engineer. My grandfather took me up for my first flight at the Wellman airfield in an old Taylorcraft back in '69 when I was 4 years old. I was his last passenger in the early '70's before he lost his medical. I took him up from the same Wellman airfield in 1987 for his last flight before he passed. He was my first passenger after I got my license. I flew Glenn out of the same airfield less than a month ago. It will most likely be his last flight as well, but it was one worthy of being a last flight and I cherish the memory of it. I love the memories that flying provide us, especially Piet type of flying. I keep my logbook in my fireproof safe now for safe keeping as a family heritage piece, and so that I can go back at will and re-read these memories. That's my story, just had to get it off my chest. We are definitely lucky, folks. Lorin GN-1 N30PP -------- Lorin Miller Waiex N81YX GN-1 N30PP Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350505#350505 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc04085_205.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Flight video
From: "Billy McCaskill" <billmz(at)cox.net>
Date: Aug 24, 2011
You should have taken your chance when you had it, Mark. When Kevin yelled my name at Brodhead and told me to get in the airplane, I didn't hesitate. It was a great ride, and the Corvair didn't scare me one bit! Thanks again Kevin! -------- Billy McCaskill Urbana, IL tail section almost done, starting on ribs soon Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350506#350506 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Venting fuel tanks
From: "Billy McCaskill" <billmz(at)cox.net>
Date: Aug 24, 2011
It's great to learn from the mistakes of others. We can't possibly live long enough to make them all ourselves. The sharing of ideas and experiences is what makes this forum so valuable, aside from the friendships and cameraderie! -------- Billy McCaskill Urbana, IL tail section almost done, starting on ribs soon Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350508#350508 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: flying my 95 year old uncle around in the Piet...
Date: Aug 24, 2011
From: "Brett Phillips" <bphillip(at)shentel.net>
That's a first rate story Lorin! It brought a smile to my face after a long ugly day at work. I'm looking forward to similar experiences some day. I'm a real fan of your uncle's generation, those folks deserve all the respect we can muster. Brett Phillips Strasburg, VA wrote: > > Cherished Memories. Yes - I did it. I stuffed my 95 year old great uncle > into a plane designed 80+ years ago that many 30 year olds have trouble > getting into... ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Clif Dawson" <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Spruce vs. ?????
Date: Aug 25, 2011
No it's not worthless weight. The strength is commenserately more per square inch. Therefore you would resize the parts to bring the weight and strength in line with spruce. Also you can go to the link I've provided previously and compare the weights and strengths for yourself. Clif > > If I remember correctly, douglas fir is 23% heavier than spruce, so that's > worthless weight... > > With any light-weight, low-power aircraft, any increase in empty weight is > significant. Why add worthless weight just to save a few bucks or time > during building? You'll be lugging that dead weight around every time you > go flying. > Wayne Bressler ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Clif Dawson" <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Wooden Lift Struts
Date: Aug 25, 2011
Yes. With anything you use it's not what you use but HOW you use it. Something else to ponder; ALL THE REST OF THE DAMN PLANE IS WOOD! Just remember, those struts attach to the wing spars. Those wing spars support the entire plane 3000' in the air ( including YOU ). And what are they made of?? Just sayin........... :-) Nasty Bad Clif > > I remember Clif's analysis found that solid spruce has more than enough > strength to handle the job. Am I remembering this correctly? > > Chuck > 899CB > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Spruce vs. ?????
From: Wayne Bressler <wayne(at)taildraggersinc.com>
Date: Aug 25, 2011
Clif, In all fairness, and with due respect, the weight WILL be worthless unless you go through the engineering required to re-design the entire structure to suit Douglas fir (I know, I know, that's what you just said). I should have been more specific and clarified that DF is stronger, and that all members could be resized to accommodate this. According to this EAA wood book I'm reading, DF is 23% stronger, and 26% heavier than spruce. If the entire airframe was redesigned to accommodate the DF, there would only be a 3% increase in weight of the structure. My hunch is that someone who builds their entire airframe from DF will not do the requisite engineering, and their airplane will, in fact, be unnecessarily heavier than an identical example built from spruce. The 23% increased strength isn't needed, as has been proven time and again over the last 80+ years. Now, let's assume all the wood in the completed airframe weighs 200 pounds (that's a total guess). A 26% increase would cost you 52 pounds. That's roughly a 7.5% increase in empty weight (assuming a 700lb empty weight), or 8.6 gallons of 100LL. That's 52 pounds of people, stuff, or gas that you can no longer haul around. In my mind, everything is a compromise. Without a complete reengineering, substituting DF for spruce compromises useful load and performance while unnecessarily increasing strength. It's a lose-meh... All that's saved is money. Wayne Bressler Taildraggers, Inc. www.taildraggersinc.com On Aug 25, 2011, at 3:52 AM, "Clif Dawson" wrote: > > No it's not worthless weight. The strength is > commenserately more per square inch. Therefore > you would resize the parts to bring the weight > and strength in line with spruce. > > Also you can go to the link I've provided previously > and compare the weights and strengths for yourself. > > Clif > > > > >> >> If I remember correctly, douglas fir is 23% heavier than spruce, so that's worthless weight... >> >> With any light-weight, low-power aircraft, any increase in empty weight is significant. Why add worthless weight just to save a few bucks or time during building? You'll be lugging that dead weight around every time you go flying. >> Wayne Bressler > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 25, 2011
From: Ben Charvet <bencharvet(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Spruce vs. ?????
All that may be true, but its still possible to build a light DF Piet. Mine doesn't have a splinter of Spruce and came in at 692 empty. This subject has been argued on the list as much as the Continental/Corvair issue. It all comes down to the compromise between availability, price, and how much the builder weighs. If you are close to the "average" FAA pilot weight of 170, Douglas Fir may be for you. I guess my point is you have to look at all the options and make your own choice. Ben Charvet On 8/25/2011 7:18 AM, Wayne Bressler wrote: > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Wayne Bressler > > Clif, > > In all fairness, and with due respect, the weight WILL be worthless unless you go through the engineering required to re-design the entire structure to suit Douglas fir (I know, I know, that's what you just said). > > I should have been more specific and clarified that DF is stronger, and that all members could be resized to accommodate this. According to this EAA wood book I'm reading, DF is 23% stronger, and 26% heavier than spruce. If the entire airframe was redesigned to accommodate the DF, there would only be a 3% increase in weight of the structure. > > My hunch is that someone who builds their entire airframe from DF will not do the requisite engineering, and their airplane will, in fact, be unnecessarily heavier than an identical example built from spruce. The 23% increased strength isn't needed, as has been proven time and again over the last 80+ years. > > Now, let's assume all the wood in the completed airframe weighs 200 pounds (that's a total guess). A 26% increase would cost you 52 pounds. That's roughly a 7.5% increase in empty weight (assuming a 700lb empty weight), or 8.6 gallons of 100LL. That's 52 pounds of people, stuff, or gas that you can no longer haul around. > > In my mind, everything is a compromise. Without a complete reengineering, substituting DF for spruce compromises useful load and performance while unnecessarily increasing strength. It's a lose-meh... > > All that's saved is money. > > Wayne Bressler > Taildraggers, Inc. > www.taildraggersinc.com > > On Aug 25, 2011, at 3:52 AM, "Clif Dawson" wrote: > >> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Clif Dawson" >> >> No it's not worthless weight. The strength is >> commenserately more per square inch. Therefore >> you would resize the parts to bring the weight >> and strength in line with spruce. >> >> Also you can go to the link I've provided previously >> and compare the weights and strengths for yourself. >> >> Clif >> >> >> >> >>> If I remember correctly, douglas fir is 23% heavier than spruce, so that's worthless weight... >>> >>> With any light-weight, low-power aircraft, any increase in empty weight is significant. Why add worthless weight just to save a few bucks or time during building? You'll be lugging that dead weight around every time you go flying. >>> Wayne Bressler >> >> >> >> >> > > -- Ben Charvet, PharmD Staff Pharmacist Parrish Medical center ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 25, 2011
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Spruce vs. ?????
I doubt they give you a choice, but you can ask. The wood I received was very nice, tight, straight grain. Pay attention to how you orient the grain as you make your pieces for the various parts. Michael Perez Karetaker Aero www.karetakeraero.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Rib - about to cut wood - spar perpendicular chord line?
From: "MaximumBob" <bobjacoby(at)bellsouth.net>
Date: Aug 25, 2011
My first post - got "ruined" at Brodhead when Dale McCleskey gave me a ride in his Piet. Never underestimate the [positive] impact of a small act of kindness! My Sonex project (scratch build #1465) is now wondering why wood and epoxy are showing up in the shop. Not abandoning the Sonex, just figured that a little variety might get me through builders' block. Just starting on the Pientenpol ribs and would like some advice regarding whether to tilt the spars 1.5 degrees forward or build them perpendicular to the chord line. I purchased Bill Rewey's 612 Riblett plott. I replotted using the original Riblett offsets (incidentally the computer plot was identical to Bill's hand drawn layout). When I went to lay out the spars and verticals I noticed that Bill's were canted 1.5 degrees forward. (see attached picture - i.e. the spars are not perpendicular to the chord line, instead they form an 88.5 degree angle to the chord line). Reading through the archives I've learned that the angle of incidence of the wing is supposed to be 2 degrees and that it is common to make the rear cabanes 1" shorter to achieve the 2 degree angle of incidence. Drawing on this logic, if I build the wing as per Bill's drawing, I'd make the rear cabanes 0.25" shorter to achieve the 2 degree angle of incidence (i.e. if 2 degrees requires a 1" shorter rear cabane, then if the wing had 1.5 degrees built in, then only 25% or 0.25" adjustment to the rear cabane is necessary. So the question: should I build the rib so the spars are: (a) perpendicular to the chord line, (b) 88.5 degrees to the chord line, or (c) 88.0 degrees to the chord line? Here's the archive research if anyone is interested: Googled (site:forums.matronics.com pietenpol "chord line") which returned the following link: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=59897&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start I'm about to start cutting wood so any advice would be appreciated. Thanks, Bob Jacoby Jacksonville, FL Brodhead 2011 Working on Ribs Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350539#350539 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/rib_question_111.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <Lorin.Miller(at)emerson.com>
Date: Aug 25, 2011
Subject: Re: flying my 95 year old uncle around in the Piet...
Thanks Brett! It was just one of those experiences that I had to pass along. Lorin Sent from my Samsung Captivate(tm) on AT&T Brett Phillips wrote: That's a first rate story Lorin! It brought a smile to my face after a long ugly day at work. I'm looking forward to similar experiences some day. I'm a real fan of your uncle's generation, those folks deserve all the respect we can muster. Brett Phillips Strasburg, VA wrote: > > Cherished Memories. Yes - I did it. I stuffed my 95 year old great uncle > into a plane designed 80+ years ago that many 30 year olds have trouble > getting into... ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 25, 2011
Subject: Re: flying my 95 year old uncle around in the Piet...
From: Ken Bickers <bickers.ken(at)gmail.com>
Lorin, Very nice story. I hope your Uncle Glenn is forthcoming with lots of his recollections for you and your kids. Those will be recollections that will live long in their memories. My best, Ken On Thu, Aug 25, 2011 at 7:59 AM, wrote: > > Thanks Brett! It was just one of those experiences that I had to pass along. > Lorin > > Sent from my Samsung Captivate(tm) on AT&T > > Brett Phillips wrote: > > > That's a first rate story Lorin! It brought a smile to my face after a > long ugly day at work. I'm looking forward to similar experiences some > day. I'm a real fan of your uncle's generation, those folks deserve all > the respect we can muster. > > Brett Phillips > Strasburg, VA > > wrote: > >> >> Cherished Memories. Yes - I did it. I stuffed my 95 year old great uncle >> into a plane designed 80+ years ago that many 30 year olds have trouble >> getting into... > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Rib - about to cut wood - spar perpendicular to chord
line?
From: "Mild Bill" <whfrank(at)charter.net>
Date: Aug 25, 2011
>From a structural strength perspective these small changes in the spar orientation are not critical. It's more important to make the front and rear cabane struts equal length so you can easily adjust the wing fore and aft location. You can use the Search facility to search the Pietenpol-List forum for "Riblett incidence" (DON'T include the double quotation marks but DO select the "Search for all terms" radio button) and you'll get a fairly relevant list of threads to read. At first glance there is a lot of confusing information regarding how to set the incidence for a Riblett 612. I don't have time to sort it all out and give an opinion at this time, but it appears at least possible that the angle of incidence relative to the upper longerons will come out OK provided that the spars rest on the rib bottom capstrips: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311826#311826 -------- Bill Frank Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350576#350576 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Rib - about to cut wood - spar perpendicular to chord
line?
From: "MaximumBob" <bobjacoby(at)bellsouth.net>
Date: Aug 25, 2011
Unrelated, but when I re-read the opening sentences from my post this morning, they didn't make much sense! Would have been better stated as: This is my first post. I'm in the midst of scratch building a Sonex, but I got "ruined" at Brodhead. Dale McCleskey gave me a ride in his Piet and now I'm embarking on a Piet project. Never underestimate the [positive] impact of a small act of kindness! Hopefully that opening makes a little more sense! Related to the Rib - if anyone has a full size layout handy, just check the angle between the chord line and the spar and let me know if it is a right angle or a slightly acute (i.e. 88.0 degrees or 88.5 degrees) tilted toward the front of the wing. My guess is that the full-size original pientenpol layout will not be a right angle. Thanks Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350589#350589 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Keri-Ann's plans
From: "j_dunavin" <j_dunavin(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Aug 25, 2011
has anyone modified their piet to these plans? http://sites.google.com/site/pietenpolplanpackages/pietenpol-plan-packages/suppemental-plan-packages I'm interested in the gapless three piece wing, and the gapless ailerons. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350601#350601 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Subject: FW: Cabanes (Spruce vs. ?????)
Date: Aug 25, 2011
Mark, Jim, (Cliff), and anyone else interested in wood struts, Today, I raced home from SLC, smelling of alcohol from the beer that squirted out of my nose because a remark Gene Rambo made in a private email while I was waiting for a plane; but focused on the need of several people to see the wisdom of Clif Dawson in an email lodged in my personal computer. Here is the email from Clif, sent to me a couple years ago. I was admiring his wood cabanes, and asked him some direct questions.and got this thoughtful reply: Gary _____ From: Clif Dawson [mailto:CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca] Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2009 12:01 AM Subject: Re: Cabanes Hi Gary, That thing is really coming along. Your getting close to the 90% done-50% to go stage. Stuff gets done in this stage but it's not as noticable as some big thing--like a fuselage! The surfaces that the fittings cover is flat and on the bottom ones there is a filler glued to the strut to make up the distance between the fuselage brackets. Essentially I rounded the front and rear of the strut with the blank square then shaped them to get that oldtime profile. Then rounded in the narrowed areas near the ends. Since there's two bolts at each end I made up a flat bracket of 0.063 steel to connect them on each side of the strut. I can't seem to figure out how to get to a specific message number in the list search. I finally found the one where I laid out the strength characteristics I used for my calculations. In this case it was for the outer wing struts but the same process is good for the cabanes and they don't have much force on them. I'm going to have to do up all these calculations and KEEP them somewhere! They always disappear after I satisfy myself all is OK. Here it is; "Spruce has a tensile strength of 6700 lb/square inch. For the sake of argument lets say a strut is 1" X 3 1/2". With streamlining the area should be 2/3 of the square area, or 2.3 square inch. There are four struts or 5.2 square inches. Thats 34840 lbs( yes I know ththe front ones take the majority of the load) .Dividing on the assuption of equal load on a 1200 lb AC we get 29 g! How much less if properly calculated? 25 g? 20 g? Is this adequate? There's a bolt at each end. The strength here is based on how much force required to pull a plug of wood out by the bolt. That plug has two faces, the square area of which is the width of the strut times the distance from the end to the bolt. If the strut is 1" thick and the bolt is 1" from the end then you have two faces each 1" square or two square inches. The "shear parallel to the grain" is 1120 lb per square inch. So we have a strength here of 2240 lb. Four struts so thats a total of 8960 lb. That's still over 7 g. If we added another such bolt we have 14 g capacity. Taking into account the higher front strut stress I'd bet we still have at least 10 g to play with. And this is for plain, solid spruce, no plywood, no laminated straps or embedded tubing or anything else to complicate matters. You can add a little more strength by using Western Hemlock or Doug Fir but not much. " Clif ----- Original Message ----- From: Gary Boothe <mailto:gboothe5(at)comcast.net> Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 6:15 AM Subject: Cabanes Hi Cliff, My cabanes are similar to yours. Considering the taper at the ends, I am curious to see just how you handled the fittings, and if you had any ideas on the subject. In retrospect, it would have been easier to leave the ends a little more 'block' shaped, but that would detract from the general appearance. Here's a picture of my progress to date. Any comments about the fittings would be most appreciated, and some close-ups. Hope to see you at Brodhead. Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion Tail done, Fuselage on gear (13 ribs down.) _____ Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 17:57:00 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Rib - about to cut wood - spar perpendicular to chord
line?
From: "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com>
Date: Aug 26, 2011
In response to Mild Bill, it is important that the front and rear cabanes are NOT the same length. If they are the airplane will seem to fly nose high all the time. MaximumBob, the best thing you can do at this point in the project is to buy a set of plans from the Pietenpol family and start building the airframe according to them. Trust me, you won't be disappointed. Don Emch NX899DE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350613#350613 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Greg Cardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Keri-Ann's plans
Date: Aug 26, 2011
NX18235 was built using Keri-Ann's plans for the gapless 3-piece wing and the gapless ailerons. They are good plans and I am happy with the mods. Greg Cardinal Minneapolis ----- Original Message ----- From: "j_dunavin" <j_dunavin(at)hotmail.com> Sent: Friday, August 26, 2011 12:18 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Keri-Ann's plans > > has anyone modified their piet to these plans? > http://sites.google.com/site/pietenpolplanpackages/pietenpol-plan-packages/suppemental-plan-packages > I'm interested in the gapless three piece wing, and the gapless ailerons. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350601#350601 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Cabanes (Spruce vs. ?????)
From: "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net>
Date: Aug 26, 2011
Thanks for posting this Gary. I commented to Jim a few days ago that good or bad, the wooden lift strut thread should keep us entertained for the rest of the week. Well, it has certainly done that, and the discussion has also convinced me that we are on the right track. I had not really considered wooden lift struts until just a few days ago when Jim mentioned the idea. Initially I thought it sounded great as I started to think about how certain woods would LOOK. A few days into that and the thought struck me... which woods will WORK? Jim had the right idea all along based upon what he has seen and learned over the years, but the thought being new to me required me to ask a few questions. The conversation with everyone here and offline has shed a lot of light on the subject. Thanks all! -------- Mark Chouinard Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350629#350629 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Wooden Lift Struts
From: "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net>
Date: Aug 26, 2011
Anyone searching for information on wooden lift struts should also read this thread... http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350629#350629 -------- Mark Chouinard Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350630#350630 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Rib - about to cut wood - spar perpendicular to chord
line?
From: "Mild Bill" <whfrank(at)charter.net>
Date: Aug 26, 2011
In the post I linked to in my first reply, yocum137 stated that the Riblett 612 will be set to the correct incidence if one sets the spars down on the lower capstrips and keeps the cabane struts equal length. If that is true, then the airplane won't seem to fly nose high. If that is false, then exactly what disasters will befall the builder who obtains the desired incidence by extending the attachment fittings on the front spar by an inch or two? -------- Bill Frank Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350637#350637 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Rib - about to cut wood - spar perpendicular to chord
line?
From: "Mild Bill" <whfrank(at)charter.net>
Date: Aug 26, 2011
MaximumBob - I don't know yet one way or the other, but perhaps Rewey expected the incidence angle to be 1.5 deg and made the spar faces vertical relative to the horizon at that incidence by setting the spar faces at 88.5 deg relative to the chord line. Somebody expecting the correct incidence to be 2 deg would set the spar faces at 88 deg. Setting the spar faces at 90 deg relative to the horizon in level flight might be fairly common, but it's not required from considerations of structural strength. If you want 90 deg relative to the chord line, knock yourself out. -------- Bill Frank Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350639#350639 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Rib - about to cut wood - spar perpendicular to chord
line?
From: "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com>
Date: Aug 26, 2011
Sorry about that Mild Bill. I didn't realize there is some built in incidence in that wing rib. I don't know much about that rib. The two things I do know is that Mr. Riblett's claims about the Pietenpol airfoil are not at all true and that there is exactly one airplane flying with that airfoil and I believe Mr. Frank is planning to make some changes in the incidence department. Just keep in mind that after all the hard work of building it you may have to go back and rework some things to get it to fly right. For a lot of folks that is fun and they like to do that sort of thing, which is great! Don Emch NX899DE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350640#350640 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Rib - about to cut wood - spar perpendicular to chord
line?
From: "Mild Bill" <whfrank(at)charter.net>
Date: Aug 26, 2011
Don - That's all right. I'm not absolutely sure that yocum137 was correct, which is why I asked if there would be any problems with extending the front attach fittings. I suspect not, but if there's a potential problem with structural strength it will be far better to discuss it and find out now rather than find out in flight later. (Perhaps someone can point to some threads where it's already been hashed out.) Hey, I'm Mr. Frank! :D If I remember correctly, Lowell Frank [username Pieti Lowell on this forum] cllipped the wing by 2' but I'm not sure if that's off each wing tip or only off the total span. Either way, the loss in lift due to loss in surface area should theoretically be compensated for by increasing the angle of attack for a given flight condition. Hopefully Pieti will provide us a summary of how the angle of incidence was handled originally and what changes are contemplated. -------- Bill Frank Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350651#350651 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 26, 2011
Subject: Re: Rib - about to cut wood - spar perpendicular
to chord line?
From: mark lee <mlmarkelee7(at)gmail.com>
Bill I'm very interested in how well the Riblett 612 works for you. Are you planning on a trailing edge cut out on the center section? Are there any more things that you are doing like Keri-Ann's no gap ailerons or no gap three piece wing? I'm wondering if the piet airfoil might have some bad stall characteristics if it was used on a sail plane[amusing thought for entertainment purpose only]. I got the impression that sailplane airfoils is his main focus. Anyway I hope that you do see some meaningful performance gains. I'll be watching your posts with much interest. Do not post. On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 9:10 AM, Don Emch wrote: > > Sorry about that Mild Bill. I didn't realize there is some built in > incidence in that wing rib. I don't know much about that rib. The two > things I do know is that Mr. Riblett's claims about the Pietenpol airfoil > are not at all true and that there is exactly one airplane flying with that > airfoil and I believe Mr. Frank is planning to make some changes in the > incidence department. Just keep in mind that after all the hard work of > building it you may have to go back and rework some things to get it to fly > right. For a lot of folks that is fun and they like to do that sort of > thing, which is great! > > Don Emch > NX899DE > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350640#350640 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 26, 2011
Subject: Tail Brace Wire Size
From: John Kuhfahl <kuhlcouper(at)gmail.com>
What size tail brace wires are you using? I've seen 1/16th an 1/8th inch. Thanks John -- John Kuhfahl, Lt Col USAF (Ret), President, KUHLCOUPER LLC ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Tail Brace Wire Size
From: "Jerry Dotson" <jdotson(at)centurylink.net>
Date: Aug 26, 2011
I used 1/8" mainly because I had an ample supply of it. I think most use 3/32". I used 1/8" throughout the airplane. Mine will probably cruise 73 rather than 75! -------- Jerry Dotson 59 Daniel Johnson Rd Baker, FL 32531 Started building NX510JD July, 2009 wing, tailfeathers done, fuselage rolling using Lycoming O-235 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350680#350680 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gboothe5" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Tail Brace Wire Size
Date: Aug 26, 2011
I used 3/32"...I'm shooting for a fast Piet.... Gary -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jerry Dotson Sent: Friday, August 26, 2011 3:56 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Tail Brace Wire Size I used 1/8" mainly because I had an ample supply of it. I think most use 3/32". I used 1/8" throughout the airplane. Mine will probably cruise 73 rather than 75! -------- Jerry Dotson 59 Daniel Johnson Rd Baker, FL 32531 Started building NX510JD July, 2009 wing, tailfeathers done, fuselage rolling using Lycoming O-235 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350680#350680 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 26, 2011
From: Dan Yocum <yocum(at)fnal.gov>
Subject: Re: Rib - about to cut wood - spar perpendicular
to chord line? On 08/26/2011 01:12 PM, Mild Bill wrote: > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Mild Bill" > > Don - > > That's all right. I'm not absolutely sure that yocum137 was correct, which is why I asked if there would be any problems with extending the front attach fittings. I suspect not, but if there's a potential problem with structural strength it will be far better to discuss it and find out now rather than find out in flight later. (Perhaps someone can point to some threads where it's already been hashed out.) > Hey, I only got a minor in Math (but I still can't do simple arithmetic). Anyway, look at the Riblett plan. If you set the spars on top of the bottom cap strip, and measure down from the chord line, you will see that the front spar is lower than the rear spar by 1" 3/32. There's 29" between the front and rear spars center on center. Run the math. SOH: sine theta = opposite / hypotenuse. Angle theta comes out to be 1 degree, which is what Lowell suggests. So, that's why you should make the cabanes the same length - the 1 degree AoI is already built in to the Riblett GA30-612 rib. Cheers! Dan > Hey, I'm Mr. Frank! :D > > If I remember correctly, Lowell Frank [username Pieti Lowell on this forum] cllipped the wing by 2' but I'm not sure if that's off each wing tip or only off the total span. Either way, the loss in lift due to loss in surface area should theoretically be compensated for by increasing the angle of attack for a given flight condition. Hopefully Pieti will provide us a summary of how the angle of incidence was handled originally and what changes are contemplated. > > -------- > Bill Frank > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350651#350651 > > -- Dan Yocum Fermilab 630.840.6509 yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things." ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 26, 2011
From: Ben Charvet <bencharvet(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Tail Brace Wire Size
I used 3/32, I think that is what the plans call for. Probably saved a small insignificant amount of weight that I compensated for by adding a Maule tailwheel.... Ben On 8/26/2011 6:18 PM, John Kuhfahl wrote: > What size tail brace wires are you using? I've seen 1/16th an 1/8th > inch. Thanks John > > -- > John Kuhfahl, Lt Col USAF (Ret), > President, KUHLCOUPER LLC > * > > > * -- Ben Charvet, PharmD Staff Pharmacist Parrish Medical center ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Rib - about to cut wood - spar perpendicular to chord
line?
From: "Pieti Lowell" <Lowellcfrank(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Aug 26, 2011
My 612 was clipped 24"total and the center section is a lifting 24"area, with a cross-flow radiator lowered allowing 10" between the bottom of the wing and the top of the radiator. Those of you using engines other than a Ford or water cooling power plants will have additional area working to your advantage. I first left the cabanes as Pietenpol had on the drawings, front 1" longer than the rear, But Riblett suggested 1 Degree of incident, not being so bright I am changing the rear cabanes in 1/2"adjustments upward to get the flight characteristics that suite me with the clipped wing, With the standard length wing you will not go wrong with Mr Ribletts suggestion. Even though he said that the Piet's wing had an abrupt stall. He did say that the Piet wing had a high speed problem. Try going 110 MPH with a 145 Werner, it is not easy without a flutter of fabric just ahead of the trailing edge. The 612 high speed flutter is not at the same speed, could be a much higher speed, of which I won't be looking for. Over 115 MPH' Pieti Lowell Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350702#350702 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Donald Lane" <dslane(at)embarqmail.com>
Subject: first flight
Date: Aug 26, 2011
Pietenpol N110DL made her first flight yesterday 8/25/11, at Bayboro NC, piloted by Barry Triplett. He found the airplane to handle well and said it flies like a Cub. One quick flight this morning and then we had to take off the wings again and move her to safer ground before Irene gets here. Got everything secured just before the rain started. Don Lane ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: first flight
From: "Billy McCaskill" <billmz(at)cox.net>
Date: Aug 26, 2011
Congrats on your maiden flight, Don! I'm sure that you can't wait for the storm to blow over so that you can bolt the wings back on and put lots of enjoyable hours on her! -------- Billy McCaskill Urbana, IL tail section almost done, starting on ribs soon Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350707#350707 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Greg Cardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: first flight
Date: Aug 27, 2011
Fantastic! No brakes and a tailskid, classic color scheme, a streamer of oil running down the cowling and look at the grass hanging on the landing gear bracing cables. I think Bernard would smile approvingly. Very lovely, congratulations! Greg Cardinal Minneapolis ----- Original Message ----- From: Donald Lane To: pietenpol Sent: Friday, August 26, 2011 10:07 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: first flight Pietenpol N110DL made her first flight yesterday 8/25/11, at Bayboro NC, piloted by Barry Triplett. He found the airplane to handle well and said it flies like a Cub. One quick flight this morning and then we had to take off the wings again and move her to safer ground before Irene gets here. Got everything secured just before the rain started. Don Lane ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: first flight
From: "Jerry Dotson" <jdotson(at)centurylink.net>
Date: Aug 27, 2011
Don, Congratulations.I know you are filled with pride. I would be. I sure hate you had to take the wing off it. The setting for the picture is just perfect for a Piet. Looks like it is straight from1933. -------- Jerry Dotson 59 Daniel Johnson Rd Baker, FL 32531 Started building NX510JD July, 2009 now covering 21" wheels Lycoming O-235 Jay Anderson CloudCars prop Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350725#350725 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: first flight
From: "aerocarjake" <flight.jake(at)gmail.com>
Date: Aug 27, 2011
That's just fantastic....! Congratulations................ -------- Jake Schultz - curator, Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350733#350733 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: first flight
From: Dan Yocum <yocum137(at)gmail.com>
Date: Aug 27, 2011
Fantastic news! Great picture, too! -- Dan Yocum yocum137(at)gmail.com "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things." On Aug 26, 2011, at 10:07 PM, "Donald Lane" wrote: > Pietenpol N110DL made her first flight yesterday 8/25/11, at Bayboro NC, p iloted by Barry Triplett. He found the airplane to handle well and said it f lies like a Cub. One quick flight this morning and then we had to take off t he wings again and move her to safer ground before Irene gets here. Got eve rything secured just before the rain started. Don Lane > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 27, 2011
Subject: Re: Tail Brace Wire Size
From: John Kuhfahl <kuhlcouper(at)gmail.com>
Gary,Jerry, all,I have lots of 1/8 stuff too and was going to use 1/8 for that reason. My plans show 14 GA. "Hard Wire." and 325 SF Turnbuckle.Any other thoughts on this? On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 6:05 PM, Gboothe5 wrote: > I used 3/32"...I'm shooting for a *fast* Piet....**** > > ** ** > > Gary**** > > ** ** > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto: > owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jerry Dotson > Sent: Friday, August 26, 2011 3:56 PM > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Tail Brace Wire Size > > ** ** > > jdotson(at)centurylink.net>**** > > ** ** > > I used 1/8" mainly because I had an ample supply of it.**** > > I think most use 3/32". I used 1/8" throughout the airplane. Mine will > probably cruise 73 rather than 75!**** > > ** ** > > --------**** > > Jerry Dotson**** > > 59 Daniel Johnson Rd**** > > Baker, FL 32531**** > > ** ** > > Started building NX510JD July, 2009**** > > wing, tailfeathers done, fuselage rolling**** > > using Lycoming O-235**** > > ** ** > > ** ** > > ** ** > > ** ** > > Read this topic online here:**** > > ** ** > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350680#350680**** > > ** ** > > ** ** > > ** ** > > ** ** > > ** ** > > ** ** > > ** ** > > ** > > ** > to browse**** Un/Subscription,**** Browse, Chat, FAQ,**** more:**** > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > **** > > ** > > ** > Web Forums!**** http://forums.matronics.com**** > > ** > > ** > support! > **** > > ** > http://www.matronics.com/contribution**** > > ** > > ** ** > > ** ** > > * > > * > > -- John Kuhfahl, Lt Col USAF (Ret), President, KUHLCOUPER LLC ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Scott Knowlton " <flyingscott_k(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Aug 27, 2011
Subject: Re: first flight


August 14, 2011 - August 27, 2011

Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-kr