Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-kt
September 18, 2011 - October 07, 2011
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Doug Dever <chiefpepperhead(at)hotmail.com> |
Subject: | Polyurethane paint coverage estimate |
To give you an idea. I did a '63 Ford Falcon Convertable last summer. A s
hade less than 3 quarts of color and a Gallon of clear. And we put 5 good
wet coats of clear on. (needed to wet sand and buff to mirror finnish). T
hat was=2C of course=2C doing all the door jams and door edges where most o
f the paint is lost. There is very little loss on an aircraft because it's
mostly flat panels. Keep in mind though=2C With a high pressure gun only
about 30-40% of the paint sticks to the surface. The rest is lost. Using
an HVLP=2C 60-70% of the paint sticks.
So if you were to "use" 3 gal of paint on an airplane=2C only 1 gal is actu
ally "on" it. Minus the solvents. So=2C weight wise it's not as much as y
ou would think.
Doug Dever
In beautiful Stow Ohio
Date: Sun=2C 18 Sep 2011 11:27:30 -0700
From: aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Polyurethane paint coverage estimate
Thanks Doug=2C I was thinking total finish coats would add up to about 4-5
gals. I don't think the difference in weight would be too bad=2C consideri
ng it would only take about 1 1/2 cross coats to hide the silver=2C when us
ing the same paint I have=2C 2 coats is usually enough on the jets=2C some
times 3. It is a pain it the a$$ to strip though.
Shad
--- On Sun=2C 9/18/11=2C Doug Dever wrote:
From: Doug Dever <helio400(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Polyurethane paint coverage estimate
Date: Sunday=2C September 18=2C 2011=2C 2:03 PM
If I remember right=2C (it's been a long time) I think we used a little ove
r 1 1/2 gal on the Tri-Pacers we did. That was after all the filler coats.
My dad got field approval to use automotive urethane. We just put a flex
agent in the paint. One of them that I know of still had the same paint j
ob 25yrs later. No cracks. Still shined. I do not remember exactly how
much weight it added. I think about 20lbs over the cotton and dope it repl
aced. When I get farther along I plan on doing 1 yd test panels to see wha
t rout I want to go.
My .02
Doug
From: shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Sunday=2C September 18=2C 2011 12:23 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Polyurethane paint coverage estimate
Group=2C I was wondering how many gallons of paint it takes to paint a piet
sized airplane (polyurethane=2C high gloss) . I have a small bipe I am bu
ilding=2C and I got a great price on 4 gallons of recently expired shelf li
fe gloss red aircraft paint (free). With the price of paint especcially re
d=2C It would save me close to $500+. All I would need would be to buy X a
mout of gals of white aero thane and use red as a trim color. I really wan
ted orange/white=2C but an orange-ish red and white would work to =2C on a
jungster replica. Maybe do the Ernst Kessler style scheme for you Waldo Nu
ts. I will sacrifice some of the paint to cover up a test panel to throw o
ut in the sun for a year or so of sun and weather exposure to see if it adh
eres and or cracks.
Shad
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________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Clif Dawson" <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca> |
Subject: | Re: Modified Seine Knot |
It's not anything like this, is it?
Clif
>
> During Oshkosh there is a wing jig available that is used to teach rib
> stitching. Would there be any interest in having such a jig available to
> learn how to tie these knots during Broadhead?
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Can anyone identify this plane? |
From: | "PatrickW" <pwhoyt(at)yahoo.com> |
>From the odd curvature of the forward tube of the rudder, and the narrow landing
gear, it's possible that this is a Albany-Washowski variant of a Longster.
Radius of the rudder curve would have matched that of a maple tree in old Mr Washowski's
back yard near Albany, MN, around that time.
The engine isn't original, of course, assuming that's what this is. That looks
like a VW in the picture. Don't think there were VW's back then (or plastic
fuel tanks). Don't see the 3 cylinder Anzani's very much.
No telling what kind of interesting stuff can be found in old Minnesota barns...
- Pat
--------
Patrick Hoyt
601XLb/Corvair
N63PZ - 99.999% done....
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=352627#352627
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Modified Seine Knot |
From: | "dwilson" <marwilson(at)charter.net> |
I was thinking about building a jig. I'd use three or four piet ribs and actually
tak the fabric to the jig. I thought it would be a good idea to leave the
ends open just so you could see how one single length of rib lacing chord wraps
around the rib and secures both the top and bottom of the fabric. I think
it would be great for those that have not rib stitched and wanted to learn how.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=352631#352631
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Southwest Ohio Regional Fly-in Sept. 25 |
From: | "DaveG601XL" <david.m.gallagher(at)ge.com> |
Grass roots fly-in and a nice grass strip just east of Cincinnati this coming Sunday,
Sept 25. Free lunch!
http://www.eaa174.org/#SWORFI
--------
David Gallagher
601 XL/Jabiru 3300
First flight 7/24/08, Upgraded 3/19/10
Flew it to Oshkosh '09 & '10
180+ hours and climbing!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=352635#352635
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | helspersew(at)aol.com |
Speaking of shock cord, I am up in Poplar Grove this weekend replacing mine
. I need to add somes sort of "dams" onto the top of the axle, in order to
keep the bungees from working their way too close to the wood legs and gett
ing pinched. I was down to 50% worn through on one side, only after about
10 hours of operation! Yikes!
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
: Pietenpol-List: Re: Shock Cord
m>
While on the subject of bungee chord, I have a mate who is ordering a pile
of it
o im going to buy mine now. Im building the straight axle and am wondering
what
pprox length the chords need to be?
Thank you in advance.
Scotty
--------
amworth, Australia
uilding a Corvair Powered Pietenpol Air Camper
www.scottyspietenpol.com
Rudder, Vert stab, Elevators, Hor Stab and Ribs built...About to start
uselage...Corvair engine at Roy's Garage waiting to be modified.
ead this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=352502#352502
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________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Control horns |
From: | helspersew(at)aol.com |
Hi Scott,
I actually cut small pieces, fit, and welded those little windows closed.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
I fabricated the elevator and rudder control horns over the past couple of
days
to the plans. Fun work and a good test of my newly acquired gas welding sk
ills.
I have a question for those of you who built them to the plans. After zinc
chromating them it occurred to me that there will be a large area of unprot
ected
metal inside the horn since the forward end that attaches to the wooden spa
r of
the control surface is open ("butterflied" if you will to attach to the spa
r).
What can be done to protect this bare metal? I thought of spraying linsee
d oil
or fluid film into the opening and sloshing it around. I'm not keen on see
ing
corrosion on these horns which are so visible on the completed aircraft (no
t to
mention they are a requirement for controlled flight!).
Regards to all Pietenpol builders and fliers out there.
Scott Knowlton
Burlington Ontario
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Modified Seine Knot |
From: | Amsafetc <amsafetyc(at)aol.com> |
Yes
Sent from my iPhone
On Sep 18, 2011, at 4:43 PM, "dwilson" wrote:
>
> During Oshkosh there is a wing jig available that is used to teach rib stitching.
Would there be any interest in having such a jig available to learn how to
tie these knots during Broadhead?
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=352601#352601
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> |
Subject: | Re: Modified Seine Knot |
I learned how to tie the knot from the Ray Stitts video. Covered the wing
on a PA20/22 using his knot. I have forgotten how now, but still have the
video and will re-educate myself when it comes time to ribstitch the Piet.
Get yourself a video. C
----- Original Message -----
From: "dwilson" <marwilson(at)charter.net>
Sent: Sunday, September 18, 2011 4:43 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Modified Seine Knot
>
> During Oshkosh there is a wing jig available that is used to teach rib
> stitching. Would there be any interest in having such a jig available to
> learn how to tie these knots during Broadhead?
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=352601#352601
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Scott Knowlton " <flyingscott_k(at)hotmail.com> |
Subject: | Re: Control horns |
Wow! Now there's some fine welding. I don't know if I'd have the dexterity or
fine skills to do that yet but what a great idea.
Thanks Dan
Scott
-----Original Message-----
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2011 11:30:22
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Control horns
Hi Scott,
I actually cut small pieces, fit, and welded those little windows closed.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
I fabricated the elevator and rudder control horns over the past couple of days
to the plans. Fun work and a good test of my newly acquired gas welding skills.
I have a question for those of you who built them to the plans. After zinc
chromating them it occurred to me that there will be a large area of unprotected
metal inside the horn since the forward end that attaches to the wooden spar of
the control surface is open ("butterflied" if you will to attach to the spar).
What can be done to protect this bare metal? I thought of spraying linseed oil
or fluid film into the opening and sloshing it around. I'm not keen on seeing
corrosion on these horns which are so visible on the completed aircraft (not to
mention they are a requirement for controlled flight!).
Regards to all Pietenpol builders and fliers out there.
Scott Knowlton
Burlington Ontario
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enpol-List" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
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________________________________________________________________________________
From: | steve(at)wotelectronics.com |
Subject: | Suspension Travel - FlyBaby style gear |
A friend is looking at a Piet with a FlyBaby style gear, which has no
suspension travel. My first inclination is that I don't like this, but
I can't really say why...just because it is different I suppose. It
seems to be working fine for the FlyBaby guys, so maybe it is OK. This
plane has 800 tires that will provide some cushion when the tire
pressure is right.
What are everyone's thoughts on having no suspension travel other than
tires? Are there any reasons this is bad?
Thanks!
Steve Ruse
Norman, OK
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | jeff wilson <jlwilsonnn(at)yahoo.com> |
Subject: | Rib Stitching Videos |
The Superflite Knot
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rneWclUSONw
-
The Modified Siene Knot
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3nnDg-6CBs
-
-The Staggerwing Knot
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9OsIBk_RWQY
-
The Staggerwing Knot Part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fw3rrsuma3c&feature=related
-
Taping with the Stewart Systems
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JgXd2-FXtrM&feature=related
-
Taping part 2 with Stewart
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9XdBFsEjuus&feature=related
-
-
-
Aero-TV: Flight Tip of the Week - Rib Stitching Antique Restorations
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYTSYaP5zS8&feature=related
-
Aircraft Manufacturing 1910
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYTSYaP5zS8&feature=related
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | jeff wilson <jlwilsonnn(at)yahoo.com> |
Subject: | Re: Suspension Travel - FlyBaby style gear |
I have 3 friends with Flybabys wieghing between 650 and 750 and they are al
l happy with the suspension. They all have the big fat tires with about 10
lbs pressure.
--- On Mon, 9/19/11, steve(at)wotelectronics.com wr
ote:
From: steve(at)wotelectronics.com <steve(at)wotelectronics.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Suspension Travel - FlyBaby style gear
Date: Monday, September 19, 2011, 8:57 AM
A friend is looking at a Piet with a FlyBaby style gear, which has no suspe
nsion travel.- My first inclination is that I don't like this, but I can'
t really say why...just because it is different I suppose.- It seems to b
e working fine for the FlyBaby guys, so maybe it is OK.- This plane has 8
00 tires that will provide some cushion when the tire pressure is right.
What are everyone's thoughts on having no suspension travel other than tire
s?- Are there any reasons this is bad?
Thanks!
Steve Ruse
Norman, OK
le, List Admin.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> |
Subject: | Re: Suspension Travel - FlyBaby style gear |
Depends on how smoothly you can land and how smooth the landing surface is.
Jack Phillips says he had a cub and covered the bungees with tape and never
noticed that the tape had moved, indicating that the bungees had never
moved. I'm going to put a "no suspension travel" wooden gear on my Piet
similar to the one for sale (green and white) recently shown on the list. C
----- Original Message -----
From: <steve(at)wotelectronics.com>
Sent: Monday, September 19, 2011 9:57 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Suspension Travel - FlyBaby style gear
>
> A friend is looking at a Piet with a FlyBaby style gear, which has no
> suspension travel. My first inclination is that I don't like this, but I
> can't really say why...just because it is different I suppose. It seems
> to be working fine for the FlyBaby guys, so maybe it is OK. This plane
> has 800 tires that will provide some cushion when the tire pressure is
> right.
>
> What are everyone's thoughts on having no suspension travel other than
> tires? Are there any reasons this is bad?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Steve Ruse
> Norman, OK
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Jim Boyer <boyerjrb(at)comcast.net> |
Subject: | Re: Modified Seine Knot |
Yes Dan,
Jim B.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Jim Boyer <boyerjrb(at)comcast.net> |
Subject: | Re: 2 Year Anniversary |
Congratulations Kevin on 250 hours on FBG. I know you were in Arizona for quite
awhile so you really did fly her alot when you were home. So how many hours estimated
on her before Brodhead next July?
cheers,
Jim B.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Jim Boyer <boyerjrb(at)comcast.net> |
Subject: | Re: Modified Seine Knot |
So what was the problem causing the battery to lose charge?
Is Ryan still in Sebastopol? I thought he was moving up to Seattle.
Cheers, Jim B.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG FORSCOM" <steven.d.dortch(at)us.army.mil> |
OK Wayne,I was right.
But, I was not smart enough to argue my point of view. So I got me a Big Gun. Dr
Dave Rogers is on the Beechcraft Bonanza list and has a good track record of
teaching us Luddites about aerodynamics. He knows a little about this since he
teaches aerodynamics at a small school in Annapolis, Maryland, that school has
as something to do with ships. Some of their graduates fly off of very short
(though paved) moving airstrips.
Dave is able to take some highfalutin science talk and dumb it down enough so that
even a Marine can understand or better an Army Grunt, (BTW a blade antenna,
mounted properly is much more aerodynamic than a rod antenna. He has me convinced
that about the only thing aerodynamically worse than a round pole is maybe
a square block)
Below is the original message I sent to him:
Dr. Dave, in a discussion with a fellow pilot. I made the following statement:
"In layman's terms, the reason a plane gets more "Twitchy" with an aft CG is the
shortened distance between the CG (moved aft) and the elevator. Move the CG
forward and the plane becomes more stable. When the CG is too far forward, the
plane becomes so stable that the required response may be too slow or not possible.
IE too far forward a CG and you can't get a good flare when required."
The other pilot said: "I thought the reason for the increased sensitivity was due
to the Center of Gravity becoming closer to the wing's Center of Pressure."
Which is correct?
Or is it like Bernoullis sucking or Coandas blowing. Luckily the end effect is
the same.
I think I got my idea from the Gleim Pilot handbook recently studied for an FAA
test.
Blue Skies,
Steve D
HIS ANSWER:
G'day Steve,
You are.
On 9/16/2011 3:06 PM, Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG FORSCOM wrote:
>Dr. Dave, in a discussion with a fellow pilot. I made the following statement:
>
>"In layman's terms, the reason a plane gets more "Twitchy" with an aft CG is the
shortened
>distance between the CG (moved aft) and the elevator. Move the CG forward and
the plane
>becomes more stable. When the CG is too far forward, the plane becomes so stable
that the
>required response may be too slow or not possible. IE too far forward a CG and
you can't get
>a good flare when required."
This is a reasonable layman's description.
Technically, there is a point as the CG moves aft at which the stability becomes
neutral. That point is called the neutral point (stick fixed, stick free, with/without
power as the case my be). If the CG is aft of the neutral point, then the aircraft
is unstable.
When the CG is too far forward a number of things may occur examples are: (a) there
is not
enough elevator power to flare the aircraft for a full stall landing; (b) the
stick force is too large; (c) the stick force gradient is too large.
There is a small discussion of the forward CG question on the Technical Flying
website.
>
>The other pilot said: "I thought the reason for the increased sensitivity was
due to the
>Center of Gravity becoming closer to the wing's Center of Pressure."
This is wrong. Technically this is associated with the balance of the aircraft
and
not the stability.
Simply put, an aircraft must be both balanced and stable (modern tactical fighters
are an exception to the stability requirement). In a conventional configuration,
i.e., with a horizontal tail, it is balance that requires the horizontal tail with
typically a down force on the tail. It is the stability requirement that limits
the aft movement of the CG. Control requirements determine the forward CG limit.
Dave Rogers
E33A for sale
BEFORE I COULD GLOAT HE ANSWERED ANOTHER BONANZA OWNERS COMMENT, BELOW IS HIS EDITED
COMMENT:
A reasonable simplified explanation. Improved:
1. Stability (tendency for the aircraft to return to the trimmed speed when displaced
a small amount from the initial trimmed speed.)
2. Sensitivity to controls (the tendency for the pitch to change a lot, vs a little,
with a given movement of the yoke).
Other Pilot comment: 3. Moving the CG forward tends to make the aircraft more
stable. If the CG
is moved too far forward control issues result, e.g. stick force becomes
too large.
DAVE'S Answer: Moving the CG toward the elevator makes the aircraft less stable
and makes it more sensitive to elevator inputs.
for the same elevator force a shortened lever are would result in LESS moment
to pitch the aircraft.
Dave Rogers
E33A for sale
So I was right, but I sure did not understand why until he told me why.
Blue Skies,
Steve D
His WEBSITE (listed Below) has Beech Bonanza centered articles under Technical
Flying, but there is a lot of generic aviation information. I do not do math in
public and it makes my ears bleed if I don't understand it, I prefer to just
believe.
Dr Rogers signature block below:
David F. Rogers, PhD, ATP
Professor of Aerospace Engineering (Emeritus)
Annapolis, MD
Rogers Aerospace Engineering & Consulting
Annapolis, MD
Over 50 years of experience
www.nar-associates.com
410 271 1968 (c)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "bender" <jfaith(at)solairusaviation.com> |
they are beautiful planes.... great lines and most of all..wood
i've wanted another bipe every since i sold my ragwing special.
the Flitzer just looks like it should... right out of ww1.. or waldo pepper
jeff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=352701#352701
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: 2 Year Anniversary |
From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
Way to go Kevin... that is good stuff.
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=352706#352706
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Amsafetc <amsafetyc(at)aol.com> |
Congrats
on the 2 yr anniversary
John
Sent from my iPhone
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com> |
Subject: | Re: Southwest Ohio Regional Fly-in Sept. 25 |
I think I am gonna try to make this one, if the weather does not change my
mind.- Who else here is going to fly in?
-
Shad
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Southwest Ohio Regional Fly-in Sept. 25 |
From: | Matthew VanDervort <matthew.vandervort(at)gmail.com> |
I plan on working on the T-Craft at barnett's 1OA3, that day, if I get eve
rything going I might swing down, or if ya happen to fly over Barnett's stop
in and say hello! Can't miss the bright yellow Taylorcraft
513-668-2103, I'll probly be there most of the day
Sent from my iPhone
On Sep 19, 2011, at 6:55 PM, shad bell wrote:
>
>
> I think I am gonna try to make this one, if the weather does not change my
mind. Who else here is going to fly in?
>
> Shad
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Southwest Ohio Regional Fly-in Sept. 25 |
From: | Matthew VanDervort <matthew.vandervort(at)gmail.com> |
Disregard, I can't read a calendar, I'll be out on the 24th.... But there a
re usually people out there for Sunday morning early afternoon
Sent from my iPhone
On Sep 19, 2011, at 6:55 PM, shad bell wrote:
>
>
> I think I am gonna try to make this one, if the weather does not change my
mind. Who else here is going to fly in?
>
> Shad
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | KM Heide CPO/FAAOP <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com> |
Subject: | Retractable sliding step |
Members:
Here are some photos I made of my step which I created last year. The key here
is light wall tubing slid inside another tube. The buttons are called step buttons
found in aluminum canes or crutches. They will allow for my step to slide
out and lock into the correct 6" length. Then push the button in and they slide
back into the sleeve. I placed this set-up as as far back as I could under
my seat. Used small pieces of ash bolted through my 1/4" thick floor!
So now... flame away as I added MORE weight to the rear of the fuse! I will have
the nicest easy to get into..outside control horned..looking Pietenpol "brick"
in the country! However, I am keeping it to plans!
KMHeide
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Jack" <jack(at)textors.com> |
Subject: | Retractable sliding step |
Ken, looks good, where did you get the "button" clips?
Thanks,
Jack
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of KM Heide
CPO/FAAOP
Sent: Monday, September 19, 2011 11:34 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Retractable sliding step
Members:
Here are some photos I made of my step which I created last year. The key
here is light wall tubing slid inside another tube. The buttons are called
step buttons found in aluminum canes or crutches. They will allow for my
step to slide out and lock into the correct 6" length. Then push the button
in and they slide back into the sleeve. I placed this set-up as as far back
as I could under my seat. Used small pieces of ash bolted through my 1/4"
thick floor!
So now... flame away as I added MORE weight to the rear of the fuse! I will
have the nicest easy to get into..outside control horned..looking Pietenpol
"brick" in the country! However, I am keeping it to plans!
KMHeide
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Retractable sliding step |
From: | "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca> |
No flames ... just a question.
The step button seems like a good, simple method to lock the tube in position.
I'm just curious as to how you will be able to push the button to collapse the
step when you're sitting in the pilot's seat. Maybe you have exceptionally long
arms, or is there a secret?
BC
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=352759#352759
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Chris Rusch" <rmdinfo(at)lakefield.net> |
When calculating weight and balance, where do you locate the arm? in the center
of the cg range? From the leading edge?
and you use negative numbers for distance in front of the datum correct?
Thanks
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=352768#352768
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | KM Heide CPO/FAAOP <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com> |
Subject: | Retractable sliding step |
The snap buttons came form a local hardware store in Fargo, ND called Mac's for
the whopping price of .25 each. They carry a few different sizes. If you cna't
find them locally, try a store that sells canes and ask if you can buy a few.
The idea works really well and easy to fabricate.
If people need these snap buttons to create a step please advise and I can send
them for costs.
KMHeide
--- On Tue, 9/20/11, Jack wrote:
> From: Jack <jack(at)textors.com>
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Retractable sliding step
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Tuesday, September 20, 2011, 5:49 AM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Ken, looks
> good, where did you get the button
> clips?
>
> Thanks,
>
>
> Jack
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From:
> owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]
> On Behalf Of
> KM Heide CPO/FAAOP
>
> Sent: Monday,
> September 19, 2011
> 11:34 PM
>
> To:
> pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>
> Subject:
> Pietenpol-List:
> Retractable sliding step
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Members:
>
>
>
>
>
> Here are some
> photos I made of my step which I created
> last year. The key here is light wall tubing slid inside
> another tube. The
> buttons are called step buttons found in aluminum canes
> or crutches. They
> will allow for my step to slide out and lock into the
> correct 6" length.
> Then push the button in and they slide back into the
> sleeve. I placed this
> set-up as as far back as I could under my seat. Used
> small pieces of ash
> bolted through my 1/4" thick
> floor!
>
>
>
>
>
>
> So now... flame
> away as I added MORE weight to the rear of
> the fuse! I will have the nicest easy to get
> into..outside control
> horned..looking Pietenpol "brick" in the
> country! However, I am
> keeping it to plans!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> KMHeide
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | KM Heide CPO/FAAOP <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com> |
Subject: | Re: Retractable sliding step |
I just lean over the side and push the button and slide it back in. Don't think
I have extra long arms... The set-up is located under my seat so it is only reaching
outside and back a little bit.
KMHeide
--- On Tue, 9/20/11, Bill Church wrote:
> From: Bill Church <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca>
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Retractable sliding step
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Tuesday, September 20, 2011, 9:10 AM
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted
> by: "Bill Church"
>
> No flames ... just a question.
> The step button seems like a good, simple method to lock
> the tube in position. I'm just curious as to how you will be
> able to push the button to collapse the step when you're
> sitting in the pilot's seat. Maybe you have exceptionally
> long arms, or is there a secret?
>
> BC
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=352759#352759
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Email Forum -
> FAQ,
> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
> List Contribution Web Site -
> -Matt
> Dralle, List Admin.
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | JOSEPH SWITHIN <joeswithin(at)yahoo.com> |
Subject: | modified seine knot |
I would sign up for the knot tying class at Brodhead. Having someone show me and
then monitoring me as I practice would be very helpful.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | JOSEPH SWITHIN <joeswithin(at)yahoo.com> |
Dick,
The print showed up today, I will send the check out today as well.
Thanks
Joe
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: W/B QUESTION |
From: | "dgaldrich" <dgaldrich(at)embarqmail.com> |
Now here's a serious answer to what I think is your question.
1. You can locate the datum (reference point) anywhere you want. For example,
most big planes use an imaginary point in front of the aircraft so that all arms
are positive. Many small aircraft use something like the prop flange, firewall,
wing leading edge, whatever, as long as it can give you a single vertical
reference plane perpendicular to the long axis of the aircraft. Most Pietenpol
builders use the firewall since it's a vertical plane and easy to measure
from.
2. The "arm" is simply a distance from the datum, aft is positive and forward
is negative. In the case of initial weight and balance calculations, you simple
level the aircraft and measure the distance from the datum/firewall to each
of the 3 wheels. Weight x Arm = Moment. Add the weights, add the moments to
get a total weight and moment. Then divide moment by weight and that gives you
another arm. That arm is the distance of the cg from the datum. Then measure
from the datum to the wing and if it falls within the acceptable range, you're
almost done. You now have the empty weight and cg and all other calculations
start from that.
3. To add people, fuel, baggage or equipment, just do the weight x arm = moment
calculations for each item and then add the empty weight and cg info. Just
remember that weights and moments add but the overall arm is a calculated number.
To figure out whether you are withing cg limits in a flyable aircraft, take
just the aft cg items (on a Piet, that's typically just the pilot) and calculate
the maximum aft cg. If it is forward of the max aft published, then you
are good. Do the same with forward cg (typically a "light" pilot as min crew)
and add fuel, max pax weight and do the W x A = M calculations. Again, if
the calculated arm falls withing the cg range, go forth and sin no more. If not,
move the wing until it does.
This is a little like telling you how to build a watch when you just wanted to
know the time but it should answer your question.
Dave
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=352779#352779
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "TOM STINEMETZE" <TOMS(at)mcpcity.com> |
Subject: | Retractable sliding step |
These "snap buttons" are also available from McMaster Carr in lots of
different sizes. (Along with just about anything else that you may never
have thought of.)
Stinemetze
>>> KM Heide CPO/FAAOP 9/20/2011 11:59 AM >>>
he snap buttons came form a local hardware store in Fargo, ND called Mac's
for the whopping price of .25 each. They carry a few different sizes. If
you cna't find them locally, try a store that sells canes and ask if you
can buy a few. The idea works really well and easy to fabricate.
If people need these snap buttons to create a step please advise and I can
send them for costs.
KMHeide
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
Subject: | Re: W/B QUESTION |
Good post, Dave.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of dgaldrich
Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2011 2:00 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: W/B QUESTION
Now here's a serious answer to what I think is your question.
1. You can locate the datum (reference point) anywhere you want. For
example, most big planes use an imaginary point in front of the aircraft so
that all arms are positive. Many small aircraft use something like the prop
flange, firewall, wing leading edge, whatever, as long as it can give you a
single vertical reference plane perpendicular to the long axis of the
aircraft. Most Pietenpol builders use the firewall since it's a vertical
plane and easy to measure from.
2. The "arm" is simply a distance from the datum, aft is positive and
forward is negative. In the case of initial weight and balance
calculations, you simple level the aircraft and measure the distance from
the datum/firewall to each of the 3 wheels. Weight x Arm = Moment. Add the
weights, add the moments to get a total weight and moment. Then divide
moment by weight and that gives you another arm. That arm is the distance
of the cg from the datum. Then measure from the datum to the wing and if it
falls within the acceptable range, you're almost done. You now have the
empty weight and cg and all other calculations start from that.
3. To add people, fuel, baggage or equipment, just do the weight x arm
moment calculations for each item and then add the empty weight and cg info.
Just remember that weights and moments add but the overall arm is a
calculated number. To figure out whether you are withing cg limits in a
flyable aircraft, take just the aft cg items (on a Piet, that's typically
just the pilot) and calculate the maximum aft cg. If it is forward of the
max aft published, then you are good. Do the same with forward cg
(typically a "light" pilot as min crew) and add fuel, max pax weight and do
the W x A = M calculations. Again, if the calculated arm falls withing the
cg range, go forth and sin no more. If not, move the wing until it does.
This is a little like telling you how to build a watch when you just wanted
to know the time but it should answer your question.
Dave
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=352779#352779
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "TOM STINEMETZE" <TOMS(at)mcpcity.com> |
Subject: | Re: W/B QUESTION |
Dave:
Now that one I'm gonna print out and put in my "must keep" book. That is
about as clear an explanation as I have seen on this subject.
Stinemetze
>>> "dgaldrich" 9/20/2011 12:59 PM >>>
Now here's a serious answer to what I think is your question.
1. You can locate the datum (reference point) anywhere you want. For
example, most big planes use an imaginary point in front of the aircraft
so that all arms are positive. Many small aircraft use something like the
prop flange, firewall, wing leading edge, whatever, as long as it can give
you a single vertical reference plane perpendicular to the long axis of
the aircraft. Most Pietenpol builders use the firewall since it's a
vertical plane and easy to measure from.
2. The "arm" is simply a distance from the datum, aft is positive and
forward is negative. In the case of initial weight and balance calculation
s, you simple level the aircraft and measure the distance from the
datum/firewall to each of the 3 wheels. Weight x Arm = Moment. Add the
weights, add the moments to get a total weight and moment. Then divide
moment by weight and that gives you another arm. That arm is the distance
of the cg from the datum. Then measure from the datum to the wing and if
it falls within the acceptable range, you're almost done. You now have
the empty weight and cg and all other calculations start from that.
3. To add people, fuel, baggage or equipment, just do the weight x arm
= moment calculations for each item and then add the empty weight and cg
info. Just remember that weights and moments add but the overall arm is a
calculated number. To figure out whether you are withing cg limits in a
flyable aircraft, take just the aft cg items (on a Piet, that's typically
just the pilot) and calculate the maximum aft cg. If it is forward of the
max aft published, then you are good. Do the same with forward cg
(typically a "light" pilot as min crew) and add fuel, max pax weight and
do the W x A = M calculations. Again, if the calculated arm falls
withing the cg range, go forth and sin no more. If not, move the wing
until it does.
This is a little like telling you how to build a watch when you just
wanted to know the time but it should answer your question.
Dave
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: W/B QUESTION |
From: | "aerocarjake" <flight.jake(at)gmail.com> |
On "balance" I imagine your "arm" is tired after typing that fine explanation.....
When you could have just explained that "if you give me the money for a 120 it'll
take a 120........"
--------
Jake Schultz - curator,
Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=352783#352783
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
Subject: | Re: W/B QUESTION |
Me too! I never have understood WHY the W/B stuff is so hard for me to understand....
But not now....I think I just got it...one more for MY "must keep" book too!!
Thanks Jack
-----Original Message-----
From: TOM STINEMETZE
Sent: Sep 20, 2011 2:20 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: W/B QUESTION
Dave:
Now that one I'm gonna print out and put in my "must keep" book. That is about
as clear an explanation as I have seen on this subject.
Stinemetze
>>> "dgaldrich" 9/20/2011 12:59 PM >>>
Now here's a serious answer to what I think is your question.
1. You can locate the datum (reference point) anywhere you want. For example,
most big planes use an imaginary point in front of the aircraft so that all arms
are positive. Many small aircraft use something like the prop flange, firewall,
wing leading edge, whatever, as long as it can give you a single vertical
reference plane perpendicular to the long axis of the aircraft. Most Pietenpol
builders use the firewall since it's a vertical plane and easy to measure
from.
2. The "arm" is simply a distance from the datum, aft is positive and forward
is negative. In the case of initial weight and balance calculations, you simple
level the aircraft and measure the distance from the datum/firewall to each
of the 3 wheels. Weight x Arm = Moment. Add the weights, add the moments to
get a total weight and moment. Then divide moment by weight and that gives you
another arm. That arm is the distance of the cg from the datum. Then measure
from the datum to the wing and if it falls within the acceptable range, you're
almost done. You now have the empty weight and cg and all other calculations
start from that.
3. To add people, fuel, baggage or equipment, just do the weight x arm = moment
calculations for each item and then add the empty weight and cg info. Just
remember that weights and moments add but the overall arm is a calculated number.
To figure out whether you are withing cg limits in a flyable aircraft, take
just the aft cg items (on a Piet, that's typically just the pilot) and calculate
the maximum aft cg. If it is forward of the max aft published, then you
are good. Do the same with forward cg (typically a "light" pilot as min crew)
and add fuel, max pax weight and do the W x A = M calculations. Again, if
the calculated arm falls withing the cg range, go forth and sin no more. If not,
move the wing until it does.
This is a little like telling you how to build a watch when you just wanted to
know the time but it should answer your question.
Dave
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
Subject: | Re: Thank you DAVE..... Re: W/B QUESTION |
Ok, I meant to say "Thank you DAVE"....I need to stop trying to multitask....
Thank you Dave!!! Great explanation....
-----Original Message-----
>From: dgaldrich <dgaldrich(at)embarqmail.com>
>Sent: Sep 20, 2011 1:59 PM
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: W/B QUESTION
>
>
>Now here's a serious answer to what I think is your question.
>
>1. You can locate the datum (reference point) anywhere you want. For example,
most big planes use an imaginary point in front of the aircraft so that all
arms are positive. Many small aircraft use something like the prop flange, firewall,
wing leading edge, whatever, as long as it can give you a single vertical
reference plane perpendicular to the long axis of the aircraft. Most Pietenpol
builders use the firewall since it's a vertical plane and easy to measure
from.
>
>2. The "arm" is simply a distance from the datum, aft is positive and forward
is negative. In the case of initial weight and balance calculations, you simple
level the aircraft and measure the distance from the datum/firewall to each
of the 3 wheels. Weight x Arm = Moment. Add the weights, add the moments to
get a total weight and moment. Then divide moment by weight and that gives
you another arm. That arm is the distance of the cg from the datum. Then measure
from the datum to the wing and if it falls within the acceptable range, you're
almost done. You now have the empty weight and cg and all other calculations
start from that.
>
>3. To add people, fuel, baggage or equipment, just do the weight x arm = moment
calculations for each item and then add the empty weight and cg info. Just
remember that weights and moments add but the overall arm is a calculated number.
To figure out whether you are withing cg limits in a flyable aircraft, take
just the aft cg items (on a Piet, that's typically just the pilot) and calculate
the maximum aft cg. If it is forward of the max aft published, then you
are good. Do the same with forward cg (typically a "light" pilot as min crew)
and add fuel, max pax weight and do the W x A = M calculations. Again, if
the calculated arm falls withing the cg range, go forth and sin no more. If
not, move the wing until it does.
>
>This is a little like telling you how to build a watch when you just wanted to
know the time but it should answer your question.
>
>Dave
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=352779#352779
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: W/B QUESTION |
From: | "Chris Rusch" <rmdinfo(at)lakefield.net> |
dgaldrich wrote:
> Now here's a serious answer to what I think is your question.
>
> 1. You can locate the datum (reference point) anywhere you want. For example,
most big planes use an imaginary point in front of the aircraft so that all
arms are positive. Many small aircraft use something like the prop flange, firewall,
wing leading edge, whatever, as long as it can give you a single vertical
reference plane perpendicular to the long axis of the aircraft. Most Pietenpol
builders use the firewall since it's a vertical plane and easy to measure
from.
>
> 2. The "arm" is simply a distance from the datum, aft is positive and forward
is negative. In the case of initial weight and balance calculations, you simple
level the aircraft and measure the distance from the datum/firewall to each
of the 3 wheels. Weight x Arm = Moment. Add the weights, add the moments
to get a total weight and moment. Then divide moment by weight and that gives
you another arm. That arm is the distance of the cg from the datum. Then measure
from the datum to the wing and if it falls within the acceptable range,
you're almost done. You now have the empty weight and cg and all other calculations
start from that.
>
> 3. To add people, fuel, baggage or equipment, just do the weight x arm = moment
calculations for each item and then add the empty weight and cg info. Just
remember that weights and moments add but the overall arm is a calculated number.
To figure out whether you are withing cg limits in a flyable aircraft,
take just the aft cg items (on a Piet, that's typically just the pilot) and calculate
the maximum aft cg. If it is forward of the max aft published, then you
are good. Do the same with forward cg (typically a "light" pilot as min crew)
and add fuel, max pax weight and do the W x A = M calculations. Again, if
the calculated arm falls withing the cg range, go forth and sin no more. If
not, move the wing until it does.
>
> This is a little like telling you how to build a watch when you just wanted to
know the time but it should answer your question.
>
> Dave
Dave thank you, that helps clear things up.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=352787#352787
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Retractable sliding step |
From: | "rvanengen" <rvanengen(at)gmail.com> |
I like the idea!!
--------
--Randall
02xB || !02xB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=352794#352794
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "bender" <jfaith(at)solairusaviation.com> |
OK.... so i had a leaf from a model a that i cut down and was using as a tail spring...did
a little trimming and bending and ...pow.... broke it
i know there are other options and i've seen them... but i like the leaf spring.
the Ragwing Special i built had an aluminum spring... 1 1/2 - 1/2 inch thick 6061...
bent in a press
i know grove made an aluminum spring for the kitfox..
anybody here ever use aluminum ??
i'll be in Wichita next week and will have access to lots of metal..thought about
doing some shopping for some aluminum to try out
any thoughts ??
jeff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=352800#352800
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Modified Seine Knot |
From: | "dwilson" <marwilson(at)charter.net> |
I have just a little experience teaching others how to tie this knot. I believe
that If you really want to learn how to do it you have to demonstrate the steps
to someone else. Then you will never forget ! Usually takes less than 10
minutes unless of course your norwegian!
Dan
That might be a violation!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=352804#352804
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | BRETT PHILLIPS <bphillip(at)shentel.net> |
I have heard (during a forum at Brodhead maybe?, vicious rumor?) that Mr
Pietenpol went to the coil spring skid after having trouble with the Model T
leaf spring skid damaging the fuselage from side loads. I'm guessing that
it wouldn't be as much of a problem if a tailwheel was used, but maybe if it
was used as a skid? Can anyone else remember more about this tidbit?
Brett Phillips
Strasburg, VA
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: W/B QUESTION |
From: | "dgaldrich" <dgaldrich(at)embarqmail.com> |
The one footnote I should have included is that when you weight the airplane, you
normally include engine oil and unusable fuel when you do the empty weight
calculations.
The one mantra of weight and balance is "Weights and moments add; arms do not".
And for Bill Church, fingers also add.
Dave
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=352809#352809
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Doug Dever <helio400(at)yahoo.com> |
Subject: | Re: Retractable sliding step |
Windsurf shops have em too.- We use them for about everything adjustable:
)=0A=0A=0AFrom: TOM STINEMETZE <TOMS(at)mcpcity.com>=0ATo: pietenpol-list@matr
onics.com=0ASent: Tuesday, September 20, 2011 2:04 PM=0ASubject: RE: Pieten
pol-List: Retractable sliding step=0A=0A=0AThese "snap buttons" are also av
ailable from McMaster Carr in lots of different sizes.- (Along with just
about anything else that you may never have thought of.)=0A-=0AStinemetze
=0A=0A=0A=0A>>> KM Heide CPO/FAAOP 9/20/2011 11:59 A
M >>>=0Ahe snap buttons came form a local hardware store in Fargo, ND calle
d Mac's for the whopping price of .25 each. They carry a few different size
s. If you cna't find them locally, try a store that sells canes and ask if
you can buy a few. The idea works really well and easy to fabricate.=0A=0AI
f people need these snap buttons to create a step please advise and I can s
==
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | gboothe5(at)comcast.net |
Jeff,
I believe Zenith 601's are now using 6061 gear legs. I know of at least one builder
of the older HDS model that converted the straight, coil spring gear to bent
6061. As I recall, he just bent the gear legs in a Harbor Freight press. Don't
see why it wouldn't work for a tail spring.
Gary
------Original Message------
From: bender
Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
ReplyTo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: tail spring
Sent: Sep 20, 2011 2:20 PM
OK.... so i had a leaf from a model a that i cut down and was using as a tail spring...did
a little trimming and bending and ...pow.... broke it
i know there are other options and i've seen them... but i like the leaf spring.
the Ragwing Special i built had an aluminum spring... 1 1/2 - 1/2 inch thick 6061...
bent in a press
i know grove made an aluminum spring for the kitfox..
anybody here ever use aluminum ??
i'll be in Wichita next week and will have access to lots of metal..thought about
doing some shopping for some aluminum to try out
any thoughts ??
jeff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=352800#352800
Sent on the Sprint Now Network from my BlackBerry
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Clif Dawson" <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca> |
Subject: | Re: W/B QUESTION |
So! Just for Billy Canuck, How do you count
to 1023 on ten fingers?
Clif
The one mantra of weight and balance is "Weights and moments add; arms do
not". And for Bill Church, fingers also add.
>
> Dave
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Jack" <jack(at)textors.com> |
Subject: | Piet Project on eBay |
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=390348679103&s
sPageName=ADME:B:SS:MOTORS:1123
Jack
DSM
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
Chris; I'll pass along a few comments from when I have done the W&B on
my airplane (once after the rebuild, the second time after the engine
change). I go with what others have said... include oil and unusable
fuel in the basic empty weight. However, those are easy enough to
add and deduct. And use a W&B spreadsheet... there are several of
them available from the archives or just ask on this list and you'll
get one or more. Makes doing "what-ifs" much quicker and easier.
So I used the wing leading edge as the datum since the usual CG limits
are stated as a range that is a percentage of the wing chord (60" chord in
the case of our wings). I started out by setting the fuselage level
and stable, wheels blocked or chocked, tailwheel elevated on a steady
stand. I placed a level on the cockpit longeron (actually on the underside
of the longeron), clamped in place, and leveled the fuselage. That's very
important.
I took a line and plumb bob and dropped them over the leading edge of
the wing right where the centersection and wing panel join, but really
anyplace convenient where the plumb bob can drop down to just at the
floor. Let it stop moving and mark that as the reference against
which everything else is measured.
I laid a line of tape down from the center of the contact patch of one
tire across to the other tire as the line that represents the mains.
I dropped a plumb bob from the center of the tailwheel down to the floor
and marked that spot, and also dropped a plumb bob from the center of
the firewall down to the floor and marked that spot, then connected those
with a line of tape representing the long axis of the airplane. you
could also do it from the center of the prop, if you don't have any offset
in your engine thrust line. Now you have everything you need to measure
things from, and you should write down all the essential dimensions
because you'll need them when you go to weigh the airplane. Tailwheel
from datum, mains from datum, fuel tank from datum, passenger and pilot
from datum (although you can determine the latter three by weighing
later).
While the airplane is in the level position you can also measure the
angle of your cabanes and other stuff. You can measure the approximate
wheelbase, but that will change after you install the wings and the
springs or bungees are compressed. You don't need that value for
W&B though.
Knowing where your main gear axle centerline falls relative to the datum
is very useful in light of the recent articles that William Wynne wrote
in the newsletter (thanks, Ryan and others, too). This is a good time
to make adjustments if they are needed, but you'll know more as you
begin to add the wings and accessories and you determine where your
final CG is.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
Flying Squirrel N2069Z "Rocket"
Medford, OR
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: W/B QUESTION |
From: | Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com> |
Agreed with Oscar on using the leading edge of the wing as the datum, due to
the fact that the Piet is rather unique in that you can shift the wing fore
and aft to adjust the CG (and which number crunching shows is more effective
than hanging the engine farther out front). After you do your W&B (or even
preliminary ones) you find that your CG is too far aft, you can easily
calculate how much farther aft the wing needs to move to bring it within the
chord CG limits in the most adverse scenario. As shown in the article (#2)
the CG and weight of a covered wing is roughly known....you could always
weigh your wing if that gives you more peace of mind, the CG should not
really be that different either way. Just subtract it from the W&B of the
entire airplane, adjust the CG of the wingless airplane in inches based on
how much you want to move the wing, then add the wing back in. You will
arrive at the new CG with your wing notionally relocated.
Might be clear as mud....if you don't have the issues, I would send Dee and
Doc a few bucks for the W&B back issues...I think William did a pretty good
job of making them rather informative. Thanks Oscar,
Ryan
On Wed, Sep 21, 2011 at 8:05 PM, Oscar Zuniga wrote:
>
>
> Chris; I'll pass along a few comments from when I have done the W&B on
> my airplane (once after the rebuild, the second time after the engine
> change). I go with what others have said... include oil and unusable
> fuel in the basic empty weight. However, those are easy enough to
> add and deduct. And use a W&B spreadsheet... there are several of
> them available from the archives or just ask on this list and you'll
> get one or more. Makes doing "what-ifs" much quicker and easier.
>
> So I used the wing leading edge as the datum since the usual CG limits
> are stated as a range that is a percentage of the wing chord (60" chord in
> the case of our wings). I started out by setting the fuselage level
> and stable, wheels blocked or chocked, tailwheel elevated on a steady
> stand. I placed a level on the cockpit longeron (actually on the underside
> of the longeron), clamped in place, and leveled the fuselage. That's very
> important.
>
> I took a line and plumb bob and dropped them over the leading edge of
> the wing right where the centersection and wing panel join, but really
> anyplace convenient where the plumb bob can drop down to just at the
> floor. Let it stop moving and mark that as the reference against
> which everything else is measured.
>
> I laid a line of tape down from the center of the contact patch of one
> tire across to the other tire as the line that represents the mains.
> I dropped a plumb bob from the center of the tailwheel down to the floor
> and marked that spot, and also dropped a plumb bob from the center of
> the firewall down to the floor and marked that spot, then connected those
> with a line of tape representing the long axis of the airplane. you
> could also do it from the center of the prop, if you don't have any offset
> in your engine thrust line. Now you have everything you need to measure
> things from, and you should write down all the essential dimensions
> because you'll need them when you go to weigh the airplane. Tailwheel
> from datum, mains from datum, fuel tank from datum, passenger and pilot
> from datum (although you can determine the latter three by weighing
> later).
>
> While the airplane is in the level position you can also measure the
> angle of your cabanes and other stuff. You can measure the approximate
> wheelbase, but that will change after you install the wings and the
> springs or bungees are compressed. You don't need that value for
> W&B though.
>
> Knowing where your main gear axle centerline falls relative to the datum
> is very useful in light of the recent articles that William Wynne wrote
> in the newsletter (thanks, Ryan and others, too). This is a good time
> to make adjustments if they are needed, but you'll know more as you
> begin to add the wings and accessories and you determine where your
> final CG is.
>
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
> Flying Squirrel N2069Z "Rocket"
> Medford, OR
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | airlion <airlion(at)bellsouth.net> |
Why did Bernie put the undercamber on his airfoil? what does it do to the flight
characteristics, and what would happen if I installed a filler strip to make it
flat? Cheers, Gardiner
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Dan Yocum <yocum(at)fnal.gov> |
Gardiner,
Do you have the 1932 Flying and Glider Manual? It's a good read and
outlines why Bernard used the airfoil that he did. He experimented with
a lot of them and this one was the best he could find. It's based
loosely on the Jenny airfoil, but is closer to one designed by Eiffel,
if I recall correctly.
The reason the Piet is faster than a Cub is because of the FC-10 airfoil.
Anyway, the manual is cheap - $6.95 + S&H from the EAA online store:
http://www.shopeaa.com/1932flyingandglidermanual.aspx
Cheers,
Dan
PS Stop dilly-dallying with "what-ifs" and get back to building! ;-)
On 09/22/2011 11:55 AM, airlion wrote:
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: airlion
>
> Why did Bernie put the undercamber on his airfoil? what does it do to the flight
> characteristics, and what would happen if I installed a filler strip to make
it
> flat? Cheers, Gardiner
>
>
--
Dan Yocum
Fermilab 630.840.6509
yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | airlion <airlion(at)bellsouth.net> |
While I am building my ribs(only 6 more to go) I just keep thinking all kind of
what ifs. I should be able to start assembling my wings soon. Thanks for the
reply Dan. Gardiner
----- Original Message ----
From: Dan Yocum <yocum(at)fnal.gov>
Sent: Thu, September 22, 2011 1:30:14 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: undercamber
Gardiner,
Do you have the 1932 Flying and Glider Manual? It's a good read and
outlines why Bernard used the airfoil that he did. He experimented with
a lot of them and this one was the best he could find. It's based
loosely on the Jenny airfoil, but is closer to one designed by Eiffel,
if I recall correctly.
The reason the Piet is faster than a Cub is because of the FC-10 airfoil.
Anyway, the manual is cheap - $6.95 + S&H from the EAA online store:
http://www.shopeaa.com/1932flyingandglidermanual.aspx
Cheers,
Dan
PS Stop dilly-dallying with "what-ifs" and get back to building! ;-)
On 09/22/2011 11:55 AM, airlion wrote:
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: airlion
>
> Why did Bernie put the undercamber on his airfoil? what does it do to the
>flight
> characteristics, and what would happen if I installed a filler strip to make
it
> flat? Cheers, Gardiner
>
>
--
Dan Yocum
Fermilab 630.840.6509
yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Retractable sliding step |
From: | Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com> |
Looks good....just curious....which plans page has the step on it? I think I
forgot to order that one, just want to pick up a copy from the
family...thanks,
Ryan
On Mon, Sep 19, 2011 at 11:33 PM, KM Heide CPO/FAAOP
wrote:
>
> Members:
>
> Here are some photos I made of my step which I created last year. The key
> here is light wall tubing slid inside another tube. The buttons are called
> step buttons found in aluminum canes or crutches. They will allow for my
> step to slide out and lock into the correct 6" length. Then push the button
> in and they slide back into the sleeve. I placed this set-up as as far back
> as I could under my seat. Used small pieces of ash bolted through my 1/4"
> thick floor!
>
> So now... flame away as I added MORE weight to the rear of the fuse! I will
> have the nicest easy to get into..outside control horned..looking Pietenpol
> "brick" in the country! However, I am keeping it to plans!
>
>
> *KMHeide*
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | KM Heide CPO/FAAOP <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com> |
Subject: | Re: Retractable sliding step |
..it comes as a suppliment when you order the gear leg plans, the orginal gear
legs.... no stinking cub landing gear here!
KMHeide
--- On Thu, 9/22/11, Ryan Mueller wrote:
> From: Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Retractable sliding step
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Thursday, September 22, 2011, 4:02 PM
> Looks good....just curious....which plans
> page has the step on it? I think I forgot to order that one,
> just want to pick up a copy from the family...thanks,
> Ryan
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 19, 2011 at 11:33 PM, KM Heide CPO/FAAOP
> wrote:
>
>
> Members:
> Here are some photos
> I made of my step which I created last year. The key here is
> light wall tubing slid inside another tube. The buttons are
> called step buttons found in aluminum canes or crutches.
> They will allow for my step to slide out and lock into the
> correct 6" length. Then push the button in and they
> slide back into the sleeve. I placed this set-up as as far
> back as I could under my seat. Used small pieces of ash
> bolted through my 1/4" thick floor!
>
> So now... flame away
> as I added MORE weight to the rear of the fuse! I will have
> the nicest easy to get into..outside control horned..looking
> Pietenpol "brick" in the country! However, I
> am keeping it to plans!
>
> KMHeide
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Retractable sliding step |
From: | helspersew(at)aol.com |
Ryan,
I thought I had made this all clear, when I discovered that "lost page" a c
ouple of years ago.......you need to monitor the list more attentively.....
. Sorry to be so harsh.
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN
-----Original Message-----
From: KM Heide CPO/FAAOP <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Thu, Sep 22, 2011 4:42 pm
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Retractable sliding step
com>
..it comes as a suppliment when you order the gear leg plans, the orginal g
ear
egs.... no stinking cub landing gear here!
KMHeide
-- On Thu, 9/22/11, Ryan Mueller wrote:
> From: Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Retractable sliding step
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Thursday, September 22, 2011, 4:02 PM
Looks good....just curious....which plans
page has the step on it? I think I forgot to order that one,
just want to pick up a copy from the family...thanks,
Ryan
On Mon, Sep 19, 2011 at 11:33 PM, KM Heide CPO/FAAOP
wrote:
Members:
Here are some photos
I made of my step which I created last year. The key here is
light wall tubing slid inside another tube. The buttons are
called step buttons found in aluminum canes or crutches.
They will allow for my step to slide out and lock into the
correct 6" length. Then push the button in and they
slide back into the sleeve. I placed this set-up as as far
back as I could under my seat. Used small pieces of ash
bolted through my 1/4" thick floor!
So now... flame away
as I added MORE weight to the rear of the fuse! I will have
the nicest easy to get into..outside control horned..looking
Pietenpol "brick" in the country! However, I
am keeping it to plans!
KMHeide
-========================
-= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum -
-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
-= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
-= Photoshare, and much much more:
-
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
-
-========================
-= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
-= Same great content also available via the Web Forums!
-
-= --> http://forums.matronics.com
-
-========================
-= - List Contribution Web Site -
-= Thank you for your generous support!
-= -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
-========================
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Rebuilding an A-65 |
From: | Dave Nielsen <sentuchows(at)aol.com> |
I am rebuilding an A-65 with practically all new parts. Can anyone tell me
if there is a specific orientation to the pistons and the connecting rod? T
he con rods have the oil holes in the bottom. Do the con rod numbers face t
he mags or the prop? How about the pistons. Or does it make a difference?
"Bat Cave" Dave
-----Original Message-----
From: Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Thu, Sep 22, 2011 5:05 pm
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Retractable sliding step
Looks good....just curious....which plans page has the step on it? I think
I forgot to order that one, just want to pick up a copy from the family...t
hanks,
Ryan
On Mon, Sep 19, 2011 at 11:33 PM, KM Heide CPO/FAAOP
wrote:
Members:
Here are some photos I made of my step which I created last year. The key h
ere is light wall tubing slid inside another tube. The buttons are called s
tep buttons found in aluminum canes or crutches. They will allow for my ste
p to slide out and lock into the correct 6" length. Then push the button in
and they slide back into the sleeve. I placed this set-up as as far back a
s I could under my seat. Used small pieces of ash bolted through my 1/4" th
ick floor!
So now... flame away as I added MORE weight to the rear of the fuse! I will
have the nicest easy to get into..outside control horned..looking Pietenpo
l "brick" in the country! However, I am keeping it to plans!
KMHeide
-= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum -
-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
-= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
-= Photoshare, and much much more:
-
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
-
-========================
-= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
-= Same great content also available via the Web Forums!
-
-= --> http://forums.matronics.com
-
-========================
-= - List Contribution Web Site -
-= Thank you for your generous support!
-= -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
-========================
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Rebuilding an A-65 |
In a message dated 9/22/2011 7:13:19 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
sentuchows(at)aol.com writes:
I am rebuilding an A-65 with practically all new parts. Can anyone tell me
if there is a specific orientation to the pistons and the connecting rod?
The con rods have the oil holes in the bottom. Do the con rod numbers face
the mags or the prop? How about the pistons. Or does it make a difference?
"Bat Cave" Dave
-----Original Message-----
From: Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Thu, Sep 22, 2011 5:05 pm
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Retractable sliding step
Looks good....just curious....which plans page has the step on it? I think
I forgot to order that one, just want to pick up a copy from the
family...thanks,
Ryan
On Mon, Sep 19, 2011 at 11:33 PM, KM Heide CPO/FAAOP
<_kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com_ (mailto:kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com) > wrote:
Members:
Here are some photos I made of my step which I created last year. The key
here is light wall tubing slid inside another tube. The buttons are called
step buttons found in aluminum canes or crutches. They will allow for my
step to slide out and lock into the correct 6" length. Then push the button
in and they slide back into the sleeve. I placed this set-up as as far back
as I could under my seat. Used small pieces of ash bolted through my 1/4"
thick floor!
So now... flame away as I added MORE weight to the rear of the fuse! I
will have the nicest easy to get into..outside control horned..looking
Pietenpol "brick" in the country! However, I am keeping it to plans!
KMHeide
" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
p://forums.matronics.com blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List)
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Rebuilding an A-65 |
In a message dated 9/22/2011 7:13:19 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
sentuchows(at)aol.com writes:
I am rebuilding an A-65 with practically all new parts. Can anyone tell me
if there is a specific orientation to the pistons and the connecting rod?
The con rods have the oil holes in the bottom. Do the con rod numbers face
the mags or the prop? How about the pistons. Or does it make a difference?
"Bat Cave" Dave
-----Original Message-----
From: Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Thu, Sep 22, 2011 5:05 pm
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Retractable sliding step
Looks good....just curious....which plans page has the step on it? I think
I forgot to order that one, just want to pick up a copy from the
family...thanks,
Ryan
On Mon, Sep 19, 2011 at 11:33 PM, KM Heide CPO/FAAOP
<_kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com_ (mailto:kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com) > wrote:
Members:
Here are some photos I made of my step which I created last year. The key
here is light wall tubing slid inside another tube. The buttons are called
step buttons found in aluminum canes or crutches. They will allow for my
step to slide out and lock into the correct 6" length. Then push the button
in and they slide back into the sleeve. I placed this set-up as as far back
as I could under my seat. Used small pieces of ash bolted through my 1/4"
thick floor!
So now... flame away as I added MORE weight to the rear of the fuse! I
will have the nicest easy to get into..outside control horned..looking
Pietenpol "brick" in the country! However, I am keeping it to plans!
KMHeide
" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
p://forums.matronics.com blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List)
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
Buy yourself a service manual and enroll in a mechanics trade school
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Rebuilding an A-65 |
From: | "bender" <jfaith(at)solairusaviation.com> |
i have manuals at the hangar... i'll take a look
jeff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353021#353021
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Mitsubishi engine run up with prop! |
From: | "johnnysdrop" <johnnysdrop(at)googlemail.com> |
Chris
What type of Mitsubishi motor is it, what did you have to do for the conversion
and do you have dual ignition, either low tension or high tension?
Great video and a fantastic project, do you have web pictures?
Cheers
John (UK)
--------
The only way is UP
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353030#353030
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | steve emo <steve.emo58(at)gmail.com> |
that is not an easy question to answer. the selection is baically a set of
compromises and limitations. the underchamber can 'although I don't promise
is does in this case" flaten the location of the center of pressure with
angle of attach. I have not studied this airfoil in detail, but I do know
that earler airfoils like that of the DR-I that this was true. I'll be
interested to see what the community has to say of this one. Also does
someone know what the airfoil number or code is? With that information one
can get the performance coefficents as a function of AoA.
making the airfoil a flat bottom would likely change teh location of the
center of pressure and hence require a new wing mounting location. I
suspect it would also change the flight characteristics specifically at low
speeds and high AoA.
On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 12:55 PM, airlion wrote:
>
> Why did Bernie put the undercamber on his airfoil? what does it do to the
> flight
> characteristics, and what would happen if I installed a filler strip to
> make it
> flat? Cheers, Gardiner
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com> |
Gardiner,
To "fill in" the bottom of the wing you are changing the aerodynamic characteristics
of the airfoil, and if you do that, you are becoming your own aeronautical
engineer and test pilot at the same time. You do not know for sure the flight
characteristics of the airfoil on your Piet, as it is no longer the FC-10 airfoil.
By filling it in you are creating an entirely new airfoil, The airlion
XXX. Seriously, though , if you don't like the look of the airfoil then find
an already designed and flight tested airfoil that you do like the look of and
build that. But my suggestion would be to leave well enough alone. Just my $.02.
For a good discussion of "undercamber" airfoils, go to the following link-
http://www.djaerotech.com/dj_askjd/dj_questions/undercamber.html
It is a really good discussion of the camber of airfoils, but I will paste the
most interesting paragraph of the link above-
"The tricky thing about both camber and thickness is that too much of either can
give us an airfoil that has too much curvature on one or both surfaces for the
airflow to follow smoothly, particularly at low Reynolds numbers (such as our
slowfliers), and particularly on the portions of the airfoil aft of the highest
and/or thickest points. If we have too much camber and/or thickness, the
airflow over the aft portions of the upper surface can separate at higher angles
of attack (limiting our slow speed performance and max lift), while too much
undercamber can cause flow separations on the lower surface at lower angles
of attack. With too much of both, we can get an airfoil that has significant amounts
of separated flow on the top, bottom or both at ALL angles of attack. However,
not enough of each can also cause problems. Designing really good airfoils,
especially for very low Reynolds numbers, can become very tricky."
Sorry I did not get to see you at Triple Tree, but glad you met Tim and Neil. I
hope to see you at CC#21 if I can bid my schedule around it for November. Hope
to meet you then.
--------
Semper Fi,
Terry Hand
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353033#353033
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
Subject: | Rebuilding an A-65 |
Hi Dave,
I have the Continental Overhaul manual for A50, A65, A75 and A80 engines
before me. For the Connecting rods, it says:
"(1) Snap both halves of the connecting rod bushings into the connecting rod
and cap.
(2) Assemble connecting rods in their proper positions on the crankshaft
with the connecting rod numbers pointing up (Fig. 15)
NOTE: The connecting rod bolts must be assembled on the connecting rods
with the threaded end pointed toward the piston pin bushing. Fasten
securely with castle nuts and cotter pins."
Fig. 15 simply shows a photograph of the crankshaft mounted on a stand with
the propeller end down and the connecting rods being assembled on the crank.
>From the above orientation and this figure, the numbers on the connecting
rods need to face the rear of the engine (toward the Accesory Case).
As for the pistons, it says:
"Oil piston pin bushing on connecting rods. Install piston pin plugs into
piston pin. Oil piston thoroughly and work oil into piston ring grooves.
Oil Piston pin and install piston (with rings assembled) to the connecting
rod. Install piston with the numbers toward the front of the engine. The
connecting rod must be fully extended through the port."
So the connecting rods have their numbers toward the mags, and the pistons
have their numbers toward the prop.
I assume you know how to install the piston rings? You can buy a copy of
this manual from Aircraft Spruce & Specialty for $14.50.
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/bvpages/manuals_cont.php
I wouldn't try to overhaul the engine without it, if for no other reason
that to get all the proper torque values.
Good luck,
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Nielsen
Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2011 8:11 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Rebuilding an A-65
I am rebuilding an A-65 with practically all new parts. Can anyone tell me
if there is a specific orientation to the pistons and the connecting rod?
The con rods have the oil holes in the bottom. Do the con rod numbers face
the mags or the prop? How about the pistons. Or does it make a difference?
"Bat Cave" Dave
-----Original Message-----
From: Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Thu, Sep 22, 2011 5:05 pm
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Retractable sliding step
Looks good....just curious....which plans page has the step on it? I think I
forgot to order that one, just want to pick up a copy from the
family...thanks,
Ryan
On Mon, Sep 19, 2011 at 11:33 PM, KM Heide CPO/FAAOP
wrote:
Members:
Here are some photos I made of my step which I created last year. The key
here is light wall tubing slid inside another tube. The buttons are called
step buttons found in aluminum canes or crutches. They will allow for my
step to slide out and lock into the correct 6" length. Then push the button
in and they slide back into the sleeve. I placed this set-up as as far back
as I could under my seat. Used small pieces of ash bolted through my 1/4"
thick floor!
So now... flame away as I added MORE weight to the rear of the fuse! I will
have the nicest easy to get into..outside control horned..looking Pietenpol
"brick" in the country! However, I am keeping it to plans!
KMHeide
" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
p://forums.matronics.com
blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Rebuilding an A-65 |
From: | Dave Nielsen <sentuchows(at)aol.com> |
Thanks Jack, Yes I can install the new rings. Thanks again.
"Bat Cave" Dave
-----Original Message-----
From: Jack Phillips <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Sent: Fri, Sep 23, 2011 10:32 am
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Rebuilding an A-65
Hi Dave,
I have the Continental Overhaul manual for A50, A65, A75 and A80 engines be
fore me. For the Connecting rods, it says:
=9C(1) Snap both halves of the connecting rod bushings into the conne
cting rod and cap.
(2) Assemble connecting rods in their proper positions on the crankshaft w
ith the connecting rod numbers pointing up (Fig. 15)
NOTE: The connecting rod bolts must be assembled on the connecting rods w
ith the threaded end pointed toward the piston pin bushing. Fasten securel
y with castle nuts and cotter pins.=9D
Fig. 15 simply shows a photograph of the crankshaft mounted on a stand wit
h the propeller end down and the connecting rods being assembled on the cra
nk. From the above orientation and this figure, the numbers on the connect
ing rods need to face the rear of the engine (toward the Accesory Case).
As for the pistons, it says:
=9COil piston pin bushing on connecting rods. Install piston pin plu
gs into piston pin. Oil piston thoroughly and work oil into piston ring gr
ooves. Oil Piston pin and install piston (with rings assembled) to the con
necting rod. Install piston with the numbers toward the front of the engin
e. The connecting rod must be fully extended through the port.=9D
So the connecting rods have their numbers toward the mags, and the pistons
have their numbers toward the prop.
I assume you know how to install the piston rings? You can buy a copy of t
his manual from Aircraft Spruce & Specialty for $14.50. http://www.aircraf
tspruce.com/catalog/bvpages/manuals_cont.php
I wouldn=99t try to overhaul the engine without it, if for no other r
eason that to get all the proper torque values.
Good luck,
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-lis
t-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Nielsen
Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2011 8:11 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Rebuilding an A-65
I am rebuilding an A-65 with practically all new parts. Can anyone tell me
if there is a specific orientation to the pistons and the connecting rod? T
he con rods have the oil holes in the bottom. Do the con rod numbers face t
he mags or the prop? How about the pistons. Or does it make a difference?
"Bat Cave" Dave
-----Original Message-----
From: Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Thu, Sep 22, 2011 5:05 pm
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Retractable sliding step
Looks good....just curious....which plans page has the step on it? I think
I forgot to order that one, just want to pick up a copy from the family...t
hanks,
Ryan
On Mon, Sep 19, 2011 at 11:33 PM, KM Heide CPO/FAAOP
wrote:
Members:
Here are some photos I made of my step which I created last year. The key h
ere is light wall tubing slid inside another tube. The buttons are called s
tep buttons found in aluminum canes or crutches. They will allow for my ste
p to slide out and lock into the correct 6" length. Then push the button in
and they slide back into the sleeve. I placed this set-up as as far back a
s I could under my seat. Used small pieces of ash bolted through my 1/4" th
ick floor!
So now... flame away as I added MORE weight to the rear of the fuse! I will
have the nicest easy to get into..outside control horned..looking Pietenpo
l "brick" in the country! However, I am keeping it to plans!
KMHeide
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | steve emo <steve.emo58(at)gmail.com> |
attached are the airfoil characteristics of the Peitentpol FC-10 airfoil.
note the Cm is relatively constant with AoA. You mess with this airfoil you
are messing with a lot of the handling and performance characterisitics.
The Cm is used to determine the CG location as a function of speed and AoA.
I fully agree that changing the airfoil by simplying filling in the
underchamber you just became an aero-designer and test pilot. I'm not
saying it wouldn't fly, or you can't do it, but I am saying it is going to
make a difference, and yes low Re airfoils are tricky. How are you going to
know where to put the wing? I wouldn't recommend it unless you have the
resources to determine the key characteristics of your new GX airfoil and
the design the wing and it's placement accordingly. If you want to get rid
of the underchamber you'd be better off sticking a Clark Y or other know
airfoil and but then it wouldn't be a Pietenpol... My 2 cents.
On Fri, Sep 23, 2011 at 10:24 AM, jarheadpilot82 wrote:
> jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com>
>
> Gardiner,
>
> To "fill in" the bottom of the wing you are changing the aerodynamic
> characteristics of the airfoil, and if you do that, you are becoming your
> own aeronautical engineer and test pilot at the same time. You do not know
> for sure the flight characteristics of the airfoil on your Piet, as it is no
> longer the FC-10 airfoil. By filling it in you are creating an entirely new
> airfoil, The airlion XXX. Seriously, though , if you don't like the look of
> the airfoil then find an already designed and flight tested airfoil that you
> do like the look of and build that. But my suggestion would be to leave well
> enough alone. Just my $.02.
>
> For a good discussion of "undercamber" airfoils, go to the following link-
>
> http://www.djaerotech.com/dj_askjd/dj_questions/undercamber.html
>
> It is a really good discussion of the camber of airfoils, but I will paste
> the most interesting paragraph of the link above-
>
> "The tricky thing about both camber and thickness is that too much of
> either can give us an airfoil that has too much curvature on one or both
> surfaces for the airflow to follow smoothly, particularly at low Reynolds
> numbers (such as our slowfliers), and particularly on the portions of the
> airfoil aft of the highest and/or thickest points. If we have too much
> camber and/or thickness, the airflow over the aft portions of the upper
> surface can separate at higher angles of attack (limiting our slow speed
> performance and max lift), while too much undercamber can cause flow
> separations on the lower surface at lower angles of attack. With too much of
> both, we can get an airfoil that has significant amounts of separated flow
> on the top, bottom or both at ALL angles of attack. However, not enough of
> each can also cause problems. Designing really good airfoils, especially for
> very low Reynolds numbers, can become very tricky."
>
> Sorry I did not get to see you at Triple Tree, but glad you met Tim and
> Neil. I hope to see you at CC#21 if I can bid my schedule around it for
> November. Hope to meet you then.
>
> --------
> Semper Fi,
>
> Terry Hand
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353033#353033
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | airlion <airlion(at)bellsouth.net> |
OK guys, You have convinced me to not mess with it. After all, the plane flew
great before the sun n fun tornado got to it. Thanks for all the input. Gardiner
________________________________
From: steve emo <steve.emo58(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Fri, September 23, 2011 12:01:24 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: undercamber
attached are the airfoil characteristics of the Peitentpol FC-10 airfoil. note
the Cm is relatively constant with AoA. You mess with this airfoil you are
messing with a lot of the handling and performance characterisitics. The Cm is
used to determine the CG location as a function of speed and AoA. I fully agree
that changing the airfoil by simplying filling in the underchamber you just
became an aero-designer and test pilot. I'm not saying it wouldn't fly, or you
can't do it, but I am saying it is going to make a difference, and yes low Re
airfoils are tricky. How are you going to know where to put the wing? I
wouldn't recommend it unless you have the resources to determine the key
characteristics of your new GX airfoil and the design the wing and it's
placement accordingly. If you want to get rid of the underchamber you'd be
better off sticking a Clark Y or other know airfoil and but then it wouldn't be
a Pietenpol... My 2 cents.
On Fri, Sep 23, 2011 at 10:24 AM, jarheadpilot82
wrote:
>
>Gardiner,
>
>To "fill in" the bottom of the wing you are changing the aerodynamic
>characteristics of the airfoil, and if you do that, you are becoming your own
>aeronautical engineer and test pilot at the same time. You do not know for sure
>the flight characteristics of the airfoil on your Piet, as it is no longer the
>FC-10 airfoil. By filling it in you are creating an entirely new airfoil, The
>airlion XXX. Seriously, though , if you don't like the look of the airfoil then
>find an already designed and flight tested airfoil that you do like the look of
>and build that. But my suggestion would be to leave well enough alone. Just my
>$.02.
>
>For a good discussion of "undercamber" airfoils, go to the following link-
>
>http://www.djaerotech.com/dj_askjd/dj_questions/undercamber.html
>
>It is a really good discussion of the camber of airfoils, but I will paste the
>most interesting paragraph of the link above-
>
>"The tricky thing about both camber and thickness is that too much of either can
>give us an airfoil that has too much curvature on one or both surfaces for the
>airflow to follow smoothly, particularly at low Reynolds numbers (such as our
>slowfliers), and particularly on the portions of the airfoil aft of the highest
>and/or thickest points. If we have too much camber and/or thickness, the airflow
>over the aft portions of the upper surface can separate at higher angles of
>attack (limiting our slow speed performance and max lift), while too much
>undercamber can cause flow separations on the lower surface at lower angles of
>attack. With too much of both, we can get an airfoil that has significant
>amounts of separated flow on the top, bottom or both at ALL angles of attack.
>However, not enough of each can also cause problems. Designing really good
>airfoils, especially for very low Reynolds numbers, can become very tricky."
>
>Sorry I did not get to see you at Triple Tree, but glad you met Tim and Neil.
I
>hope to see you at CC#21 if I can bid my schedule around it for November. Hope
>to meet you then.
>
>--------
>Semper Fi,
>
>Terry Hand
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353033#353033
>
>
>ion,
>www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List"
>target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>ronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
>Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>====
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Mitsubishi engine run up with prop! |
From: | "Chris Rusch" <rmdinfo(at)lakefield.net> |
HI John,
The engine is actually out of a Allis Chalmers forklift..that is why it makes power
at such a low rpm. The bottom end is built like a tank, forged nitrited crank
from the factory and a great oiling system. The head is an aluminum cross
flow hemi type. The OHC is chain driven.
They were also used in Mitsubishi and Clark forklifts.
I used an Electromotive distributorless ignition, it has a magnetic pick up and
coil packs, so far it works awesome.
The engine is a 4G54 non balanced engine..they were used in cars too, but most
of them had balance shafts with crappy heads and oil pumps..........so my recommendation
would be the forklift variety. The cams are also different.
Chris
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353061#353061
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: W/B QUESTION |
From: | "dwilson" <marwilson(at)charter.net> |
Here's how Bernie did it.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353112#353112
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/piet_wandb__135.pdf
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
Subject: | rebuilding an A65 |
>From an A&P whom I respect=2C and who knows these engines very well: -OZ
The connecting rod numbers face the top of the engine in it's flight positi
on. What that really means is that the oil port in #1 rod should spray int
o #2 cyl and the oil port in the bottom of #2 rod should spray into #1 cyl.
The same relationship exists between cyls #3 and #4. Another way to look
at it is that the oil ports on the rod caps for #1 and #2 should point tow
ard each other. The same for #3 and #4.
About half of the Continental engines I tear down have rods in backwards.
Usually # 2 and #4. That's a testament to how tough these engines are=2C n
ot a testament to not needing the oil ports. Those oil ports in the bottom
of the rod spray oil into the bottom of the opposing piston when at BDC to
help cool the opposing piston.
There is no specific orientation for the pistons. The A-65 pistons are cam
ground=2C but they are also fully symmetrical as related to the axis of th
e wrist pin=2C so there is no up/down orientation.
If the builder is going to the cost and trouble to rebuild the engine with
practically all new parts=2C then I hope he does himself a big favor and ba
lances the engine properly. The crank should be balanced=2C then the rods
should be balanced end-for -end. That means the small ends should all weig
h the same as their movement is horizontal. The large end of the rods move
rotationally=2C so they should all be match balanced as well. Most engine
s have had rods replaced individually at times=2C so there is no balance re
lationship at all between the rods. I see them with quite a wide range of
weights. The pistons should also be balanced along with the wrist pins. T
here is nothing like flying behind a properly balanced engine. Continental
didn't do a particularly stellar job of balancing the cranks and the origi
nal rods were only balanced to match overall weights. It can be done much
better and it pays off in smoothness=2C performance and longevity of the en
gine.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | airlion <airlion(at)bellsouth.net> |
Subject: | Fw: good flying video |
take a brake from low and slow and enjoy. I used to do this in my USMC days.
Gardiner
----- Forwarded Message ----
From: Susan Mason <susangmason(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Tue, September 20, 2011 8:09:59 PM
Subject: good flying video
Shotze,
Here is something from the PCN newsletter. Notice the wonderful music --
"Joyful, Joyful, We Adore Thee," a hymn set to Beethoven's Symphony No. 9.
Love you-
S.
Enjoy the ride and then try some of the other links for more on the daily
thrills of flying a jet fighter.
This is a video depicting the pure beauty of free, unrestricted flying. To the
pilots, you will love the familiar scenes. To those who aren't pilots, this may
help explain why we loved flying so much. As I watched this, I was reminded
that it was never a "job". It was always a pleasure. There were times when it
was stressful, but overall it was pure love and joy -- even after the scary
parts, because you either "lucked out", or you successfully managed the
"issue"-- just more adrenalin in either case. It's hard to imagine another
career as exciting, rewarding and satisfying. When you go to this site,
immediately go to Full Screen so the picture fills whatever size monitor you
have. The music just adds more to the scenes.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_VtgDfL3Eg&feature=related
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "dwilson" <marwilson(at)charter.net> |
I was told by a very good friend of Bernie's that He had actually tried an airfoil
with no undercamber. He tried the clark Y airfoil and was not pleased with
the performance. He thought that he could design an airfoil that would perform
better. He experimented with a number of airfoils. He designed the airfoil
and concluded that it performed better than the Clark Y that was used on similar
" ships ".
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353145#353145
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Steve Emo <steve.emo58(at)gmail.com> |
Guess the "right" airfoil depends on what you want...
Sent from my iPhone
On Sep 24, 2011, at 10:42 PM, "dwilson" wrote:
>
> I was told by a very good friend of Bernie's that He had actually tried an airfoil
with no undercamber. He tried the clark Y airfoil and was not pleased
with the performance. He thought that he could design an airfoil that would
perform better. He experimented with a number of airfoils. He designed the airfoil
and concluded that it performed better than the Clark Y that was used on
similar " ships ".
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353145#353145
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "MyrickPiet" <N762sierra(at)gmail.com> |
This has befuddeled me for several years. I thought I knew engines. I'm giving
the Piet list first chance to come up with an answer for me. Does anyone know
anything about the attached engine? Watercooled, 5 cyl radial, dual plugs,
Bosch injected, Garrett turbocharged, prop reduction belts. I suspect it is
a one-of but that's a LOT of work and expense. Any gearheads out there have some
ideas?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353153#353153
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/mystery_engine_2_578.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/mystery_engine_4_127.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/mystery_engine_3_162.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/mystery_engine_195.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
Subject: | Re: Mystery engine |
Maybe a Wankel Rotary engine?
-----Original Message-----
>From: MyrickPiet <N762sierra(at)gmail.com>
>Sent: Sep 25, 2011 8:37 AM
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Mystery engine
>
>
>This has befuddeled me for several years. I thought I knew engines. I'm giving
the Piet list first chance to come up with an answer for me. Does anyone know
anything about the attached engine? Watercooled, 5 cyl radial, dual plugs,
Bosch injected, Garrett turbocharged, prop reduction belts. I suspect it is
a one-of but that's a LOT of work and expense. Any gearheads out there have
some ideas?
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353153#353153
>
>
>Attachments:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com//files/mystery_engine_2_578.jpg
>http://forums.matronics.com//files/mystery_engine_4_127.jpg
>http://forums.matronics.com//files/mystery_engine_3_162.jpg
>http://forums.matronics.com//files/mystery_engine_195.jpg
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Mystery engine |
From: | "MyrickPiet" <N762sierra(at)gmail.com> |
MyrickPiet wrote:
> This has befuddeled me for several years. I thought I knew engines. I'm giving
the Piet list first chance to come up with an answer for me. Does anyone
know anything about the attached engine? Watercooled, 5 cyl radial, dual plugs,
Bosch injected, Garrett turbocharged, prop reduction belts. I suspect it is
a one-of but that's a LOT of work and expense. Any gearheads out there have
some ideas?
It's not a Wankel because it has 5 injectors, Wankels only have one injector/ firing
per rev for each rotor and this has one bank of radial cylinders.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353168#353168
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Mystery engine |
From: | "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com> |
Actually, I think that the radial engine is on a stand next to this engine, because
you don't see the cylinders in subsequent pictures.
I think that it is a single rotor rotary engine, but I am by no means an engine
expert. I am going to post the photos on a rotary engine forum and see what they
come up with.
--------
Semper Fi,
Terry Hand
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353169#353169
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Mystery engine |
From: | "MyrickPiet" <N762sierra(at)gmail.com> |
Notice how the turbo sends induction air into a rear plenum? This would seem to
indicate some sort of sleeve port for each cylinder to receive its charge.
Also it seems to be set up as a pusher engine because the turbo is fed from the
rear of the firewall and exhaust is facing the prop disc. I know this is not
Piet related but I owned a Piet for years and have followed this site for 11
years. You guys all seem like old pals who like a mental challenge.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353171#353171
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Jim Boyer <boyerjrb(at)comcast.net> |
Subject: | Re: Fw: good flying video |
Hi Gardiner,
Thanks for the video; that looks like it would really be fun!!!
Jim B.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Here I am...another new guy |
From: | "Pocono John" <tinmotion(at)yahoo.com> |
Hello everyone. I first wanted to build my own airplane in 2004. I bought the Tony
Bingelis books and some items from EAA (such as AC 43.13). I conducted much
research and decided the Pietenpol would be the perfect airplane.
I've been reading the posts here for a long time and saved all the best and most
informative discussions I could find. My goal was to not bother you with questions
already answered. I'd like to thank you for all you've contributed and
I'd also like to thank those with web pages and videos. I almost feel like I know
you all. I recently joined the local EAA group, but have not yet been able
to meet anyone there.
So, I'm actually making preparations to use my two car garage (no heat though;
just studs and T111 siding).
I recently decided to use the Corvair engine, assuming I can find one. I've read
the WW conversion manual and been to all the sites involving that engine. I
hope to attend Corvair College #21 in November (hum, should I bring my wife?).
I still have some questions, and perhaps since I'm starting with a clean slate,
maybe you'd like to make recommendations.
I'd like to purchase raw lumber from Aircraft Spruce. Customer service seems good
from what I've read here. I want to make my own pieces, so I guess I go to
their site and just buy the lumber, not the 'kit', is that correct?
Should I worry about humidity with storing the wood? Should I keep it in the house?
Should I keep tabs on the humidity here (I'm close to Pocono Raceway in PA).
I had an elevated hobby room in the garage which I've now taken apart except the
floor. The floor would make a solid work bench which is basically 4X8 and I'll
cut out a 2 foot deep area on one (long) side, so lots of edge. I'm thinking
of mounting tools on the (new) table. I'm wondering if I go with the Tony Bingelis
recommendation of the 30 sq in table, what would I use the workbench for?
Space should be OK as my wife will park outside when (and if) the time comes.
I plan to cut and shape wood in the garage. Ribs will be glued in the house in
my loft. When spring comes, I'll work on fuselage and tail in the garage. If I
find an engine, I can work on that during winter in the garage (I have those
ceiling mounted radiation heaters). I can also practice welding.
Here's a list of tools I plan to buy. I'm wondering though, if I have a table saw,
do I still need a band saw? Also, instead of an electric miter saw, I'm thinking
I'll buy the precision hand saw miter box (about $50). Thoughts?
Bench grinder-Craftsman model 21124, a 6 inch 1/6 HP 2.1 amp (on sale for $47.25,
normally $70).
http://www.sears.com/craftsman-1-6-hp-6-34-bench-grinder-with-lamp-21124/p-00921124000P
Band saw-Powertec 9 inch 1/2 HP 2.5 amps.
http://www.amazon.com/POWERTEC-BS900-Band-Saw-9-Inch/dp/B00367WB0G
Belt sander-Porter-Cable #91036, 4" by 8" 5 amps
http://www.lowes.com/pd_91036-46069-PCB420SA_?PL=1&productId=3163789
Drill press-Craftsman 10" with laser trac (model 21900). 5 speeds at 6 amps, 2/3
HP.
http://www.sears.com/craftsman-10-34-bench-drill-press-with-laser-trac-reg-21900/p-00921900000P
Table saw-Craftsman 21807 with Laser trac is 15 amp, 10" job with 24" to rip.
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00921807000P?keyword=craftsman+21807&sLevel=0&prop17=craftsman%2021807
Router-I can't decide between the Porter-Cable 690LR fixed base
http://www.amazon.com/Porter-Cable-690LR-Amp-Fixed-Base-Router/dp/B00005QEVQ
ad the DeWalt DW618PK
http://www.amazon.com/DEWALT-DW618PK-Plunge-Fixed-Base-Variable-Speed/dp/B00006JKXE
I have more on my mind, but I should probably get my workspace ready first. I have
to add that when I study the plans (I bought the complete set), I feel like
I'm getting in way over my head. I took a class in mechanical drawing in college,
and I've designed and built a few big projects, plus I gutted and rebuilt
a bathroom, so I hope I have some aptitude for this. Let's put it this way,
when I build something, I take all the parts out to make sure I have everything
and organize it.
I'm looking forward to this project. I'm glad to be here.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353193#353193
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
Subject: | Here I am...another new guy |
Hello John, and welcome to the best group of airplane builders on the
planet! I'm glad to see you've already gotten the Tony Bingelis books -
they are invaluable as a resource to the Pietenpol Builder. Read them
thoroughly and most of your questions will be answered. The rest you can
probably find answers for form this group (often, totally contradictory
answers, but that's not necessarily a bad thing - it just requires you to
sort out the good ideas from the not so good).
As for bringing your wife to Corvair College, while I myself have not
attended a Corvair College, I've heard nothing but good things about them
and would doubt that your wife would be anything but welcome. Anytime you
can get your wife involved in your project, it can only be beneficial.
I bought most of my spruce from Aircraft Spruce, but a substantial amount
from Wickes Aircraft. I found both to provide good quality wood, but Wickes
often seemed to be able to deliver much more quickly. I also bought bulk
pieces of wood as well as capstrips milled to size and here I would say you
are much further ahead to buy the milled lumber rather than rip the pieces
yourself from lumber. The additional cost is more than offset by the waste
that you will turn into sawdust, and the milled pieces are very accurate.
Just determine the lengths you will need and order so many 1/4" x 1/2"
capstrips and 1" x 1" longerons, etc.
If possible, store your wood somewhere with relatively constant humidity. I
kept mine in my basement (where I also built the airplane). You will have
far less problems with warping if you keep it somewhere with fairly stable
humidity. If you must store it outdoors, keep it off the ground and
covered. Inside would be best.
For workbenches, I made two 30" x 96" workbenches which could be bolted
together to make a 16' long x 30" wide table. This was big enough to
construct the fuselage on, and the 30" width was perfect, allowing plenty of
room to work, and allowing easy reach across the table, where if you make
the table 48" wide you will have trouble reaching across it.
As for tools, I rarely used my table saw (except for when I was ripping
stock to make capstrips - once I realized how nice the milled capstrips were
I never used the table saw again). I only used a router to route the wing
spars. I used the bandsaw extensively, both a 12" wood-cutting Craftsman
Bandsaw and a 6" Grizzly metal-cutting bandsaw. The most useful wood
working tools I found to be the bandsaw and the beltsander. You will also
need a welding rig of some sort. I bought the Smith OxyAcetylen rig from
Aircraft Spruce and found it entirely satisfactory. The drill press will be
necessary as well.
Do you have your plans yet? Have you thought about all the other decisions
besides powerplant that will need to be made? Long or short fuselage?
One-piece or 3-piece wing? Split gear or straight axle gear, etc.?
I envy you to have all this before you. It will open your life to a whole
new world.
Good Luck!
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pocono John
Sent: Sunday, September 25, 2011 9:12 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Here I am...another new guy
Hello everyone. I first wanted to build my own airplane in 2004. I bought
the Tony Bingelis books and some items from EAA (such as AC 43.13). I
conducted much research and decided the Pietenpol would be the perfect
airplane.
I've been reading the posts here for a long time and saved all the best and
most informative discussions I could find. My goal was to not bother you
with questions already answered. I'd like to thank you for all you've
contributed and I'd also like to thank those with web pages and videos. I
almost feel like I know you all. I recently joined the local EAA group, but
have not yet been able to meet anyone there.
So, I'm actually making preparations to use my two car garage (no heat
though; just studs and T111 siding).
I recently decided to use the Corvair engine, assuming I can find one. I've
read the WW conversion manual and been to all the sites involving that
engine. I hope to attend Corvair College #21 in November (hum, should I
bring my wife?).
I still have some questions, and perhaps since I'm starting with a clean
slate, maybe you'd like to make recommendations.
I'd like to purchase raw lumber from Aircraft Spruce. Customer service seems
good from what I've read here. I want to make my own pieces, so I guess I go
to their site and just buy the lumber, not the 'kit', is that correct?
Should I worry about humidity with storing the wood? Should I keep it in the
house? Should I keep tabs on the humidity here (I'm close to Pocono Raceway
in PA).
I had an elevated hobby room in the garage which I've now taken apart except
the floor. The floor would make a solid work bench which is basically 4X8
and I'll cut out a 2 foot deep area on one (long) side, so lots of edge. I'm
thinking of mounting tools on the (new) table. I'm wondering if I go with
the Tony Bingelis recommendation of the 30 sq in table, what would I use the
workbench for? Space should be OK as my wife will park outside when (and if)
the time comes.
I plan to cut and shape wood in the garage. Ribs will be glued in the house
in my loft. When spring comes, I'll work on fuselage and tail in the garage.
If I find an engine, I can work on that during winter in the garage (I have
those ceiling mounted radiation heaters). I can also practice welding.
Here's a list of tools I plan to buy. I'm wondering though, if I have a
table saw, do I still need a band saw? Also, instead of an electric miter
saw, I'm thinking I'll buy the precision hand saw miter box (about $50).
Thoughts?
Bench grinder-Craftsman model 21124, a 6 inch 1/6 HP 2.1 amp (on sale for
$47.25, normally $70).
http://www.sears.com/craftsman-1-6-hp-6-34-bench-grinder-with-lamp-21124/p-0
0921124000P
Band saw-Powertec 9 inch 1/2 HP 2.5 amps.
http://www.amazon.com/POWERTEC-BS900-Band-Saw-9-Inch/dp/B00367WB0G
Belt sander-Porter-Cable #91036, 4" by 8" 5 amps
http://www.lowes.com/pd_91036-46069-PCB420SA_?PL=1&productId=3163789
Drill press-Craftsman 10" with laser trac (model 21900). 5 speeds at 6 amps,
2/3 HP.
http://www.sears.com/craftsman-10-34-bench-drill-press-with-laser-trac-reg-2
1900/p-00921900000P
Table saw-Craftsman 21807 with Laser trac is 15 amp, 10" job with 24" to
rip.
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00921807000P?keyword=craftsman+2180
7&sLevel=0&prop17=craftsman%2021807
Router-I can't decide between the Porter-Cable 690LR fixed base
http://www.amazon.com/Porter-Cable-690LR-Amp-Fixed-Base-Router/dp/B00005QEVQ
ad the DeWalt DW618PK
http://www.amazon.com/DEWALT-DW618PK-Plunge-Fixed-Base-Variable-Speed/dp/B00
006JKXE
I have more on my mind, but I should probably get my workspace ready first.
I have to add that when I study the plans (I bought the complete set), I
feel like I'm getting in way over my head. I took a class in mechanical
drawing in college, and I've designed and built a few big projects, plus I
gutted and rebuilt a bathroom, so I hope I have some aptitude for this.
Let's put it this way, when I build something, I take all the parts out to
make sure I have everything and organize it.
I'm looking forward to this project. I'm glad to be here.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353193#353193
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
Subject: | Here I am...another new guy |
John,
Welcome! You will do just fine. The skills you need that you don't already
have you will pick up, little by little....and your two car garage is OK.
Although all two car garages are not created equal, you can see in the
attached that it all works out. I have been on my project about 3 1/2 years,
now. On the weekends, I roll my wife's car out, and move the big piece of
whateverI'mworkingon into that area. In this garage, I have two table saws
(you only need one), band saw, drill press, bench grinder, sand blast
cabinet, planer, 3 work benches, and two rolling stands for the wings. The
area above the roll-up door also has an abandoned Zenith 601 center section
and tail parts, plus a bunch of aluminum. Piet wings are built and barely
visible above the car. It all goes to prove the old saying, "If you build
it, you will find the room." Oh...that's not an old saying? Well, someday it
will be.
My advice - quit thinking and reading, and get to work! ...and, if you email
me off-list, I would be happy to tell you how much I love my Corvair engine!
Happy building,
Gary from Cool
Here's a challenge: See if you can beat my record time for building wing
ribs!
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pocono John
Sent: Sunday, September 25, 2011 6:12 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Here I am...another new guy
-->
Hello everyone. I first wanted to build my own airplane in 2004. I bought
the Tony Bingelis books and some items from EAA (such as AC 43.13). I
conducted much research and decided the Pietenpol would be the perfect
airplane.
I've been reading the posts here for a long time and saved all the best and
most informative discussions I could find. My goal was to not bother you
with questions already answered. I'd like to thank you for all you've
contributed and I'd also like to thank those with web pages and videos. I
almost feel like I know you all. I recently joined the local EAA group, but
have not yet been able to meet anyone there.
So, I'm actually making preparations to use my two car garage (no heat
though; just studs and T111 siding).
I recently decided to use the Corvair engine, assuming I can find one. I've
read the WW conversion manual and been to all the sites involving that
engine. I hope to attend Corvair College #21 in November (hum, should I
bring my wife?).
I still have some questions, and perhaps since I'm starting with a clean
slate, maybe you'd like to make recommendations.
I'd like to purchase raw lumber from Aircraft Spruce. Customer service seems
good from what I've read here. I want to make my own pieces, so I guess I go
to their site and just buy the lumber, not the 'kit', is that correct?
Should I worry about humidity with storing the wood? Should I keep it in the
house? Should I keep tabs on the humidity here (I'm close to Pocono Raceway
in PA).
I had an elevated hobby room in the garage which I've now taken apart except
the floor. The floor would make a solid work bench which is basically 4X8
and I'll cut out a 2 foot deep area on one (long) side, so lots of edge. I'm
thinking of mounting tools on the (new) table. I'm wondering if I go with
the Tony Bingelis recommendation of the 30 sq in table, what would I use the
workbench for? Space should be OK as my wife will park outside when (and if)
the time comes.
I plan to cut and shape wood in the garage. Ribs will be glued in the house
in my loft. When spring comes, I'll work on fuselage and tail in the garage.
If I find an engine, I can work on that during winter in the garage (I have
those ceiling mounted radiation heaters). I can also practice welding.
Here's a list of tools I plan to buy. I'm wondering though, if I have a
table saw, do I still need a band saw? Also, instead of an electric miter
saw, I'm thinking I'll buy the precision hand saw miter box (about $50).
Thoughts?
Bench grinder-Craftsman model 21124, a 6 inch 1/6 HP 2.1 amp (on sale for
$47.25, normally $70).
http://www.sears.com/craftsman-1-6-hp-6-34-bench-grinder-with-lamp-21124/p-0
0921124000P
Band saw-Powertec 9 inch 1/2 HP 2.5 amps.
http://www.amazon.com/POWERTEC-BS900-Band-Saw-9-Inch/dp/B00367WB0G
Belt sander-Porter-Cable #91036, 4" by 8" 5 amps
http://www.lowes.com/pd_91036-46069-PCB420SA_?PL=1&productId=3163789
Drill press-Craftsman 10" with laser trac (model 21900). 5 speeds at 6 amps,
2/3 HP.
http://www.sears.com/craftsman-10-34-bench-drill-press-with-laser-trac-reg-2
1900/p-00921900000P
Table saw-Craftsman 21807 with Laser trac is 15 amp, 10" job with 24" to
rip.
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00921807000P?keyword=craftsman+2180
7&sLevel=0&prop17=craftsman%2021807
Router-I can't decide between the Porter-Cable 690LR fixed base
http://www.amazon.com/Porter-Cable-690LR-Amp-Fixed-Base-Router/dp/B00005QEVQ
ad the DeWalt DW618PK
http://www.amazon.com/DEWALT-DW618PK-Plunge-Fixed-Base-Variable-Speed/dp/B00
006JKXE
I have more on my mind, but I should probably get my workspace ready first.
I have to add that when I study the plans (I bought the complete set), I
feel like I'm getting in way over my head. I took a class in mechanical
drawing in college, and I've designed and built a few big projects, plus I
gutted and rebuilt a bathroom, so I hope I have some aptitude for this.
Let's put it this way, when I build something, I take all the parts out to
make sure I have everything and organize it.
I'm looking forward to this project. I'm glad to be here.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353193#353193
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Here I am...another new guy |
From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
Welcome John!
As for tooling, I think we are probably each a little different in our approach,
so our preference in tools differs a bit. For example, I LOVE my band saw.
I started my project by constructing my wing ribs, as many do (unless your last
name rhymes with Boothe)... anyhow, I used my band saw and belt/disc sander
pretty heavily. In fact, I still do. I also use the drill press, table saw,
miter saw, metal band saw, table router, etc all the time... but I didn't start
out with them. I'll agree with John... the miter saw is a dandy. You'll love
it when you get to the fuse and where other larger pieces need to be cut.
I didn't find it to be the best tool for wing rib parts.
A suggestion if I may... get what you need to get going on your project. I would
obviously recommend starting with wing ribs since they are relatively cheap,
smaller in size than most assemblies and can really test your desire to build.
I found them to be a lot of fun, but was really glad to get them done and move
on to other assemblies. Anyhow, as you pound out the ribs, you can study
the drawings and consider what you will need next (tool wise). Keep a lookout
on Craigslist for tools... I've found some really good buys on there.
Most importantly, have fun... it isn't a race. We look forward to reading about
your progress.
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353200#353200
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Here I am...another new guy |
From: | helspersew(at)aol.com |
John,
It sounds to me that your thoughtful planning has you on your way to a good
start. If you've managed to listen to all the misfits on this list "for a
long time", then I wouldn't worry about getting in "over" your head....You'
ve passed the test!!! The drawings seem daunting at first, but all the inf
o you need is there. Just take on one small project at a time, and keep plo
dding through until one day you will be surprised that there is nothing mor
e to do except to fly it. This list is a wealth of information, so feel fre
e to tap into it. And if we see that you're doing something generally seen
as unairworthy, you will be summarily flamed (in a nice way). One question
you had was "then what will I use the workbench for? Mine was 32 ft. long a
nd always filled with something or another. One of the undeniable truths of
life is, that one can never have enough workbench space. You will not need
a wood-cutting band saw, but having a planer is great for shaping all form
s of scrap into usable pieces.
Welcome to the wonderful world of Pietenpols.
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN
-----Original Message-----
From: Pocono John <tinmotion(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Sun, Sep 25, 2011 8:16 pm
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Here I am...another new guy
Hello everyone. I first wanted to build my own airplane in 2004. I bought t
he
ony Bingelis books and some items from EAA (such as AC 43.13). I conducted
much
esearch and decided the Pietenpol would be the perfect airplane.
I've been reading the posts here for a long time and saved all the best and
most
nformative discussions I could find. My goal was to not bother you with
uestions already answered. I'd like to thank you for all you've contributed
and
'd also like to thank those with web pages and videos. I almost feel like I
now you all. I recently joined the local EAA group, but have not yet been a
ble
o meet anyone there.
So, I'm actually making preparations to use my two car garage (no heat thou
gh;
ust studs and T111 siding).
I recently decided to use the Corvair engine, assuming I can find one. I've
read
he WW conversion manual and been to all the sites involving that engine. I
hope
o attend Corvair College #21 in November (hum, should I bring my wife?).
I still have some questions, and perhaps since I'm starting with a clean sl
ate,
aybe you'd like to make recommendations.
I'd like to purchase raw lumber from Aircraft Spruce. Customer service seem
s
ood from what I've read here. I want to make my own pieces, so I guess I go
to
heir site and just buy the lumber, not the 'kit', is that correct?
Should I worry about humidity with storing the wood? Should I keep it in th
e
ouse? Should I keep tabs on the humidity here (I'm close to Pocono Raceway
in
A).
I had an elevated hobby room in the garage which I've now taken apart excep
t the
loor. The floor would make a solid work bench which is basically 4X8 and I
'll
ut out a 2 foot deep area on one (long) side, so lots of edge. I'm thinking
of
ounting tools on the (new) table. I'm wondering if I go with the Tony Binge
lis
ecommendation of the 30 sq in table, what would I use the workbench for? Sp
ace
hould be OK as my wife will park outside when (and if) the time comes.
I plan to cut and shape wood in the garage. Ribs will be glued in the house
in
y loft. When spring comes, I'll work on fuselage and tail in the garage. If
I
ind an engine, I can work on that during winter in the garage (I have those
eiling mounted radiation heaters). I can also practice welding.
Here's a list of tools I plan to buy. I'm wondering though, if I have a tab
le
aw, do I still need a band saw? Also, instead of an electric miter saw, I'm
hinking I'll buy the precision hand saw miter box (about $50). Thoughts?
Bench grinder-Craftsman model 21124, a 6 inch 1/6 HP 2.1 amp (on sale for
47.25, normally $70).
ttp://www.sears.com/craftsman-1-6-hp-6-34-bench-grinder-with-lamp-21124/p-0
0921124000P
Band saw-Powertec 9 inch 1/2 HP 2.5 amps.
ttp://www.amazon.com/POWERTEC-BS900-Band-Saw-9-Inch/dp/B00367WB0G
Belt sander-Porter-Cable #91036, 4" by 8" 5 amps
ttp://www.lowes.com/pd_91036-46069-PCB420SA_?PL=1&productId=3163789
Drill press-Craftsman 10" with laser trac (model 21900). 5 speeds at 6 amps
, 2/3
P.
ttp://www.sears.com/craftsman-10-34-bench-drill-press-with-laser-trac-reg-2
1900/p-00921900000P
Table saw-Craftsman 21807 with Laser trac is 15 amp, 10" job with 24" to ri
p.
ttp://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00921807000P?keyword=craftsman+21
807&sLevel=0&prop17=craftsman%2021807
Router-I can't decide between the Porter-Cable 690LR fixed base
ttp://www.amazon.com/Porter-Cable-690LR-Amp-Fixed-Base-Router/dp/B00005QEVQ
d the DeWalt DW618PK
ttp://www.amazon.com/DEWALT-DW618PK-Plunge-Fixed-Base-Variable-Speed/dp/B00
006JKXE
I have more on my mind, but I should probably get my workspace ready first.
I
ave to add that when I study the plans (I bought the complete set), I feel
like
'm getting in way over my head. I took a class in mechanical drawing in
ollege, and I've designed and built a few big projects, plus I gutted and
ebuilt a bathroom, so I hope I have some aptitude for this. Let's put it th
is
ay, when I build something, I take all the parts out to make sure I have
verything and organize it.
I'm looking forward to this project. I'm glad to be here.
ead this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353193#353193
-= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum -
-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
-= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
-= Photoshare, and much much more:
-
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
-
-========================
-= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
-= Same great content also available via the Web Forums!
-
-= --> http://forums.matronics.com
-
-========================
-= - List Contribution Web Site -
-= Thank you for your generous support!
-= -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
-========================
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Wooden Lift Struts (Update) |
From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
A few weeks ago we had some discussion about wooden lift struts. http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=83802&highlight
Since that time I have been working on assembling lift struts that would match
the cabane struts Jim Markle helped me assemble in his vacuum bagging system.
I know that we all like photos, so I'll try to keep the words short and just
offer a handful of photos. Enjoy!
Planed laminates of spruce and cherry for the cabanes.
Even the master was blown away at my choice of materials.
After running the edges through the jointer.
Shaped using the table saw and table router... softened the sharp breaks with a
little sanding effort.
System 3 gloss varnish applied.
The cabanes were laminated with full width planks of cherry. I thought this approach
might be a bit too heavy for the lift struts, so I chose to rabbet the
spruce planks on my table router and cut cherry inserts, which will allow me to
achieve the same look with less weight.
Rabbeting the spruce planks.
All prepped for further assembly.
All the parts fabricated. The original plan called for 9 pieces for each strut...
in the end, there would be 13. Some of those are a trade secret... if I told
ya, I'd have to... well, you know.
My vacuum bagging setup. It works great.
The first two planks in the bag with the cherry inserts being glued.
A better look at the best (easiest, cleanest, most even) clamp available. I am
pulling 20"Hg, which is the equivalent of 10psi... those planks are 96" long
by ~2" wide... 2 x 96 = 192... multiply by 10psi and that equates to 1920 pounds
of pressure applied to that plank in an absolutely even manner. I didn't even
get my hands dirty... try that with clamps.
All glued up. After this photo was taken, I ran these through the planer to make
them all uniform.
After the outer caps were all glued up with their inserts in place, I figured I
better take a very controlled approach to the rest of the assembly. Trying to
stack two caps with three pieces in between would be too easy to screw up.
So I chose to install the spruce leading edge strips in order to use this part
as a guide when installing the remaining parts. This approach worked well.
In all, there were 12 vacuum bagging operations... all of which required curing
time... this is why these took a couple of weeks.
Plywood cores being installed.
My friend Brian Fisher helping me spread epoxy... a lot of epoxy.
All glued up, but looking rough.
After running them through the planer.
After squaring up the trailing edge, which needs to be uniform in order to achieve
a matched cut on both sides.
All ready to go to the table saw... the most difficult and critical operation.
As the penciled note reads, I plan to cut in 3/8" @ 15*.
[img]http://www.patriotdigital.net/images/Struts/img-20110925-00273.jpg[/img]
A big sigh of relief... the table saw operations are done and they look good.
A few passes through the table router using a 1/2" round bit and the leading edges
were done.
The full set shown with their predecessor, a cabane strut. I'll still need to
do a bit of sanding to smooth out the sharp breaks left by the power tools, but
otherwise they are 90% done. The most difficult tasks are completed... a little
sanding and varnish and they will be done.
Thanks for looking!
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353204#353204
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Here I am...another new guy |
From: | "dgaldrich" <dgaldrich(at)embarqmail.com> |
Welcome John
One of the truly worthwhile things about this list is the broad spectrum of experience
and the availability of good ideas and alternate ways of doing things.
A couple of things to consider in addition to the previous postings.
1. Consider alternate sources of wood. There are some lumber yards (few and far
between but some do exist) that have sitka spruce in sizes that work. Since
you have 43-13, you can grade it yourself. 43-13 also provides alternate species
of wood that some people on this very board have used with success. I got
enough sitka to build, literally, 2 Pietenpols, from a boatyard that builds
and restores wooden boats. Alternate sources of wood will require a decent table
saw to mill to the required sizes. And yes, I made a LOT of sawdust, several
Hefty bags worth.
2. I consider a miter saw a necessity to build ribs. I made a master set of sticks
and used the saw to duplicate 40 more using a stop block. That way, fitting
a jig full of sticks took almost no time. One jig can produce two ribs a
day if all the pieces are premade.
3. Many, maybe most, metal pieces are easily done on a band saw and drill press.
4. Getting your wife involved is a GOOD thing. If she likes knitting and the
like, get her to learn the infamous modified seine knot and help with the fabric.
And make absolutely sure you use a Corvair, house paint, and the Riblett airfoil....
:-)
Dave Aldrich
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353205#353205
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Wooden Lift Struts (Update) |
From: | "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com> |
All I can say is - wow! Those struts are beautiful and you have taken great pains
to document the process. Thanks!
One question- what is the weight of each strut at this point? Just curious.
--------
Semper Fi,
Terry Hand
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353207#353207
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Wooden Lift Struts (Update) |
From: | "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca> |
Wow.
Really well documented process.
Superb craftsmanship, Mark.
Really nice.
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353209#353209
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Jack" <jack(at)textors.com> |
Subject: | Here I am...another new guy |
John, welcome to the list! I'm not going to repeat all the very good
previous comments. I'm lucky to have more tools than I need including a
mill, lathe, mig, tig and oxy welders. For building the Piet there are
three I would not give up, a 12" disk sander, metal and wood band saws. I
use them more than any others.
Enjoy the build!
Jack
DSM
www.textors.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pocono John
Sent: Sunday, September 25, 2011 8:12 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Here I am...another new guy
Hello everyone. I first wanted to build my own airplane in 2004. I bought
the Tony Bingelis books and some items from EAA (such as AC 43.13). I
conducted much research and decided the Pietenpol would be the perfect
airplane.
I've been reading the posts here for a long time and saved all the best and
most informative discussions I could find. My goal was to not bother you
with questions already answered. I'd like to thank you for all you've
contributed and I'd also like to thank those with web pages and videos. I
almost feel like I know you all. I recently joined the local EAA group, but
have not yet been able to meet anyone there.
So, I'm actually making preparations to use my two car garage (no heat
though; just studs and T111 siding).
I recently decided to use the Corvair engine, assuming I can find one. I've
read the WW conversion manual and been to all the sites involving that
engine. I hope to attend Corvair College #21 in November (hum, should I
bring my wife?).
I still have some questions, and perhaps since I'm starting with a clean
slate, maybe you'd like to make recommendations.
I'd like to purchase raw lumber from Aircraft Spruce. Customer service seems
good from what I've read here. I want to make my own pieces, so I guess I go
to their site and just buy the lumber, not the 'kit', is that correct?
Should I worry about humidity with storing the wood? Should I keep it in the
house? Should I keep tabs on the humidity here (I'm close to Pocono Raceway
in PA).
I had an elevated hobby room in the garage which I've now taken apart except
the floor. The floor would make a solid work bench which is basically 4X8
and I'll cut out a 2 foot deep area on one (long) side, so lots of edge. I'm
thinking of mounting tools on the (new) table. I'm wondering if I go with
the Tony Bingelis recommendation of the 30 sq in table, what would I use the
workbench for? Space should be OK as my wife will park outside when (and if)
the time comes.
I plan to cut and shape wood in the garage. Ribs will be glued in the house
in my loft. When spring comes, I'll work on fuselage and tail in the garage.
If I find an engine, I can work on that during winter in the garage (I have
those ceiling mounted radiation heaters). I can also practice welding.
Here's a list of tools I plan to buy. I'm wondering though, if I have a
table saw, do I still need a band saw? Also, instead of an electric miter
saw, I'm thinking I'll buy the precision hand saw miter box (about $50).
Thoughts?
Bench grinder-Craftsman model 21124, a 6 inch 1/6 HP 2.1 amp (on sale for
$47.25, normally $70).
http://www.sears.com/craftsman-1-6-hp-6-34-bench-grinder-with-lamp-21124/p-0
0921124000P
Band saw-Powertec 9 inch 1/2 HP 2.5 amps.
http://www.amazon.com/POWERTEC-BS900-Band-Saw-9-Inch/dp/B00367WB0G
Belt sander-Porter-Cable #91036, 4" by 8" 5 amps
http://www.lowes.com/pd_91036-46069-PCB420SA_?PL=1&productId=3163789
Drill press-Craftsman 10" with laser trac (model 21900). 5 speeds at 6 amps,
2/3 HP.
http://www.sears.com/craftsman-10-34-bench-drill-press-with-laser-trac-reg-2
1900/p-00921900000P
Table saw-Craftsman 21807 with Laser trac is 15 amp, 10" job with 24" to
rip.
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00921807000P?keyword=craftsman+2180
7&sLevel=0&prop17=craftsman%2021807
Router-I can't decide between the Porter-Cable 690LR fixed base
http://www.amazon.com/Porter-Cable-690LR-Amp-Fixed-Base-Router/dp/B00005QEVQ
ad the DeWalt DW618PK
http://www.amazon.com/DEWALT-DW618PK-Plunge-Fixed-Base-Variable-Speed/dp/B00
006JKXE
I have more on my mind, but I should probably get my workspace ready first.
I have to add that when I study the plans (I bought the complete set), I
feel like I'm getting in way over my head. I took a class in mechanical
drawing in college, and I've designed and built a few big projects, plus I
gutted and rebuilt a bathroom, so I hope I have some aptitude for this.
Let's put it this way, when I build something, I take all the parts out to
make sure I have everything and organize it.
I'm looking forward to this project. I'm glad to be here.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353193#353193
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Anyone know who this is? |
From: | "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com> |
American has silver bars and blue uniforms. The shoulder bars would be black and
silver though. Looks like a super 80 also.
Tools
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353218#353218
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Anyone know who this is? |
From: | "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com> |
Tools,
I see those guys every week in London. They have dark blue epaulettes with silver
bars. And, yes, that is some MD-80 variant. Most likely a Super 80, but I do
not know the guy.
--------
Semper Fi,
Terry Hand
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353219#353219
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | airlion <airlion(at)bellsouth.net> |
Subject: | Re: Here I am...another new guy |
Well, it looks like you are 90% finished building and 110% to a finished Pietenpol.
Go for it and welcome aboard. cheers, Gardiner
--- On Sun, 9/25/11, Pocono John wrote:
> From: Pocono John <tinmotion(at)yahoo.com>
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Here I am...another new guy
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Sunday, September 25, 2011, 9:12 PM
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted
> by: "Pocono John"
>
> Hello everyone. I first wanted to build my own airplane in
> 2004. I bought the Tony Bingelis books and some items from
> EAA (such as AC 43.13). I conducted much research and
> decided the Pietenpol would be the perfect airplane.
>
> I've been reading the posts here for a long time and saved
> all the best and most informative discussions I could find.
> My goal was to not bother you with questions already
> answered. I'd like to thank you for all you've contributed
> and I'd also like to thank those with web pages and videos.
> I almost feel like I know you all. I recently joined the
> local EAA group, but have not yet been able to meet anyone
> there.
>
> So, I'm actually making preparations to use my two car
> garage (no heat though; just studs and T111 siding).
>
> I recently decided to use the Corvair engine, assuming I
> can find one. I've read the WW conversion manual and been to
> all the sites involving that engine. I hope to attend
> Corvair College #21 in November (hum, should I bring my
> wife?).
>
> I still have some questions, and perhaps since I'm starting
> with a clean slate, maybe you'd like to make
> recommendations.
>
> I'd like to purchase raw lumber from Aircraft Spruce.
> Customer service seems good from what I've read here. I want
> to make my own pieces, so I guess I go to their site and
> just buy the lumber, not the 'kit', is that correct?
>
> Should I worry about humidity with storing the wood? Should
> I keep it in the house? Should I keep tabs on the humidity
> here (I'm close to Pocono Raceway in PA).
>
> I had an elevated hobby room in the garage which I've now
> taken apart except the floor. The floor would make a
> solid work bench which is basically 4X8 and I'll cut out a 2
> foot deep area on one (long) side, so lots of edge. I'm
> thinking of mounting tools on the (new) table. I'm wondering
> if I go with the Tony Bingelis recommendation of the 30 sq
> in table, what would I use the workbench for? Space should
> be OK as my wife will park outside when (and if) the time
> comes.
>
> I plan to cut and shape wood in the garage. Ribs will be
> glued in the house in my loft. When spring comes, I'll work
> on fuselage and tail in the garage. If I find an engine, I
> can work on that during winter in the garage (I have those
> ceiling mounted radiation heaters). I can also practice
> welding.
>
> Here's a list of tools I plan to buy. I'm wondering though,
> if I have a table saw, do I still need a band saw? Also,
> instead of an electric miter saw, I'm thinking I'll buy the
> precision hand saw miter box (about $50). Thoughts?
>
> Bench grinder-Craftsman model 21124, a 6 inch 1/6 HP 2.1
> amp (on sale for $47.25, normally $70).
> http://www.sears.com/craftsman-1-6-hp-6-34-bench-grinder-with-lamp-21124/p-00921124000P
>
> Band saw-Powertec 9 inch 1/2 HP 2.5 amps.
> http://www.amazon.com/POWERTEC-BS900-Band-Saw-9-Inch/dp/B00367WB0G
>
> Belt sander-Porter-Cable #91036, 4" by 8" 5 amps
> http://www.lowes.com/pd_91036-46069-PCB420SA_?PL=1&productId=3163789
>
> Drill press-Craftsman 10" with laser trac (model 21900). 5
> speeds at 6 amps, 2/3 HP.
> http://www.sears.com/craftsman-10-34-bench-drill-press-with-laser-trac-reg-21900/p-00921900000P
>
> Table saw-Craftsman 21807 with Laser trac is 15 amp, 10"
> job with 24" to rip.
> http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00921807000P?keyword=craftsman+21807&sLevel=0&prop17=craftsman%2021807
>
> Router-I can't decide between the Porter-Cable 690LR fixed
> base
> http://www.amazon.com/Porter-Cable-690LR-Amp-Fixed-Base-Router/dp/B00005QEVQ
> ad the DeWalt DW618PK
> http://www.amazon.com/DEWALT-DW618PK-Plunge-Fixed-Base-Variable-Speed/dp/B00006JKXE
>
> I have more on my mind, but I should probably get my
> workspace ready first. I have to add that when I study the
> plans (I bought the complete set), I feel like I'm getting
> in way over my head. I took a class in mechanical drawing in
> college, and I've designed and built a few big projects,
> plus I gutted and rebuilt a bathroom, so I hope I have some
> aptitude for this. Let's put it this way, when I build
> something, I take all the parts out to make sure I have
> everything and organize it.
>
> I'm looking forward to this project. I'm glad to be here.
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353193#353193
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Email Forum -
> FAQ,
> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
> List Contribution Web Site -
> -Matt
> Dralle, List Admin.
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Here I am...another new guy |
From: | Ken Bickers <bickers.ken(at)gmail.com> |
John,
Welcome aboard. You may have already thought of this, but I'd
recommend at least one other item: an inexpensive digital camera to
keep in your workshop. You'll want to take lots of pictures to
document your progress, as well as to occasionally post here. It will
also be very handy when you make the pilgrimage to Brodhead.
Cheers, Ken
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Wooden Lift Struts (Update) |
From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
Terry... I'm not sure on the weight, but I will find out. When they first came
out of the bag all glued up I thought they felt a little heavy, but once the
excess glue and blocked wood were trimmed they were noticeably lighter. I'll
try to put them on the scales this week. In case I forget to mention it later
on... these are 96" long, which is ~10" longer than I should need to fly. I
won't trim them until we are close to rigging them so I can leave some room for
possible damage or miscalculation. I suppose we could divide the total weight
by 8 and get a weight per foot. I'd be interested to know how they compare
to streamline tubing if anyone has some that can be weighed... or perhaps that
data is published somewhere.
Thanks for the compliments fellas!
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353224#353224
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Here I am...another new guy |
From: | "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca> |
Welcome to the group, John.
When it comes to tools, everybody has their preferred methods.
Ideally, we would all have very spacious, fully equipped workshops (and an infinite
amount of free time and disposable income). However, in the real world, we
make do with what we have (well I do, anyway). It sounds as though you are faced
with starting from scratch, as far as equipping your workshop. While all
of the tools you have listed can be used to good advantage in building a Piet,
it isn't really necessary to have all of them. Many tasks can be accomplished
by several means, depending on the ingenuity of the builder. In my case, I built
up my woodworking tool collection over many years, prior to starting my Piet
so I didn't have to decide what tools to buy before starting (but still use
any excuse available to acquire a new toy... I mean tool). I chose to buy my
Sitka in rough-sawn planks, and milled it all myself, so a table saw was a necessity.
Aircraft Spruce and Wick's do not sell rough-sawn lumber, so if you want
to go that route, you'll have to find another source for your wood, and be
prepared to do your own grading. Buying your wood pre-milled would make the table
saw less critical to have. I do have a thickness planer, so I used it, but
it isn't totally necessary. I also have a (electric) miter saw, and so far have
used it to cut ZERO parts for my Piet. However, I have used my disc sander
for almost every piece. Rough cut the pieces to length, and fine tune the mitered
ends on the disc sander - works like a charm.
There are a lot of metal parts in this "all-wood" airplane, and you'll likely need
that bandsaw to cut out the metal parts (unless you have access to a metal
shop), but most of the metal parts will need to be made to fit the wooden structures
that you actually made, so they won't be required until a little later
in the project. My suggestion would be to acquire the tools as you need them,
rather than buying a whole shop full of tools in one shot. That way you can spend
a little time with each new tool, getting to know how each one works, before
cutting into your airplane parts.
As far as the workbench goes, I'm not sure what you're talking about - you plan
to use a 4' x 8' floor as your workbench, with a 2 foot deep cutout on one side,
and mount your tools on the workbench? You will eventually need a workbench
about 15 feet long to build your fuselage on. Like Jack suggested, you should
probably build 2 benches 8 feet long, and about 30 inches wide (you will need
the full 24 inches for the fuselage, and you'll want a bit of extra room - but
not too much - 4 feet is too wide to reach across). Here's a link to some plans
for simple but effective workbenches (but as I said, I'd suggest making them
about 6" wider - even though that means spending a few extra bucks for the
extra plywood)
http://www.eaa1000.av.org/technicl/worktabl/tablefig.htm
As for your workspace, a 2 car garage should work just fine for most of the build.
I only have a 1 1/2, and although it's squishy at times, it works. I have,
however heard that people sometimes use garages to store cars - weird idea. I
live further North than you, and I can work almost year round, by making use
of a small space heater in the winter - it all depends on your desire to get things
built. In my case, I use whatever time is available to me, so if that happens
in the winter months, then that's when I build (the T-88 just takes longer
to cure in colder temps).
Oh, one more thing... unlike a bathroom reno, there shouldn't be any sewer connections
on the Piet (assuming you build to the plans).
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353225#353225
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "TOM STINEMETZE" <TOMS(at)mcpcity.com> |
Subject: | Re: Here I am...another new guy |
One more welcome to the group, John. If one of does not know the answer
to your "soon to be discovered" questions - then the question probably
does not deserve answering. Just remember to BUILD TO THE PLANS, or
mostly to the plans, or at least use them as a general guideline - -
Otherwise you don't get to call it a Pietenpol. Oh one other tool you
might want to consider as it has been very useful to me. That is an
X-acto miter box and back saw. This is a hobby sized miter box and saw
that allows very precise cuts in some hard to get to places. Not too
expensive either.
Best wishes on your build!
Tom Stinemetze
N328X
Long fuse, corvair, split axel gear, 3-piece wing, spruce, Ken Perkins
parts, etc., etc. 6-years into a 5-year project
>>> "Bill Church" 9/26/2011 9:04 AM >>>
Welcome to the group, John.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Wooden Lift Struts (Update) |
From: | "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com> |
Mark,
FWIW, here are the weights for some aluminum struts for sale on the web. I will
curious to see how yours come out in weight comparison. But the aluminum does
not look near as nice as yours!
--------
Semper Fi,
Terry Hand
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353231#353231
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/struts_601.png
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Here I am...another new guy |
From: | "kevinpurtee" <kevin.purtee(at)us.army.mil> |
One quick thought on shipping: I'm certain that I've made UPS, FedEx and USPS
profitable during lean years by ordering materials as needed vs. making fewer
large orders. I haven't done the math, but I know shipping costs are a significant
part of the total cost of the airplane.
Of course, storing the stuff long term also has costs.
Having said all that, I'm buying materials for the next project exactly the way
I did for the Piet: as needed, in small quantities, with lots of shipping costs.
--------
Kevin "Axel" Purtee
NX899KP
Austin/Georgetown, TX
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353232#353232
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com> |
Subject: | Re: Here I am...another new guy |
Almost a third of Dad's cost was shipping if I remember correctly.
-
Shad
--- On Mon, 9/26/11, kevinpurtee wrote:
From: kevinpurtee <kevin.purtee(at)us.army.mil>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Here I am...another new guy
Date: Monday, September 26, 2011, 10:58 AM
il>
One quick thought on shipping:- I'm certain that I've made UPS, FedEx and
USPS profitable during lean years by ordering materials as needed vs. maki
ng fewer large orders.- I haven't done the math, but I know shipping cost
s are a significant part of the total cost of the airplane.-
Of course, storing the stuff long term also has costs.
Having said all that, I'm buying materials for the next project exactly the
way I did for the Piet: as needed, in small quantities, with lots of shipp
ing costs.
--------
Kevin "Axel" Purtee
NX899KP
Austin/Georgetown, TX
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353232#353232
le, List Admin.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Dick N" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
Subject: | Re: Wooden Lift Struts (Update) |
Terry
Where on the web did you find those aluminum struts.
Thanks
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com>
Sent: Monday, September 26, 2011 9:53 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wooden Lift Struts (Update)
>
>
> Mark,
>
> FWIW, here are the weights for some aluminum struts for sale on the web. I
> will curious to see how yours come out in weight comparison. But the
> aluminum does not look near as nice as yours!
>
> --------
> Semper Fi,
>
> Terry Hand
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353231#353231
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/struts_601.png
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Here I am...another new guy |
From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
As Jack and Bill have said... a couple of workbenches that can be fastened together
would be a great idea. This first thing I built for this project were two
4' x 8' workbenches and the height was determined by MY height, not the standard
table or workbench height. That is something else you should consider...
I don't know if you are shorter or taller than average, but make the benched
comfortable to YOU and you won't fatigue as easily during those long standing
sessions.
I used 2x4s, 4x4s, cheap ply for the shelves and cabinet grade birch for the tops.
I also cut, drilled and tapped some 1" aluminum stock and installed them
into the bottom of the legs and then threaded 3/8"-16 bolts with big washers for
leveling feet. Leveling feet are great any time, but expecially when you get
around to pairing them up for the fuse assembly.
4' x 16'... straight and level. Can you believe that tiny stack of wood will build
the fuse?
Once everything was leveled, I used a few pieces of cheap plywood as gussets and
screwed the table legs together in the middle. You can kind of make out the
big rectangular gusset if you look closely at the two center legs.
To second (or third) the train of thought on tooling... if you buy things up front
that you THINK you'll need, you will not only tie up resources (might not
be a problem for you), but you may look back and say... I wish I would have got
the model with the [fill in the blank], or you may wish a certain tool wasn't
in your way at all while it collects dust. Just something to consider.
My shop/hangar started out with only a few tools I inherited from my Grandpa and
now, only two-and a half years later it is fairly well equipped. At the time
this photo was taken, I had my plans and was awaiting capstrip for ribs. You
don't need much to get started.
Your shop will stay well equipped if you keep an eye out for this mean hombre.
He is known as the Markler, and he always leaves you feeling a wee bit violated
(is that the right word) after a visit. Just look at him... that mean scowl
as he says, "I'm taking this."
Just kidding... Jim is a swell guy and we love him around here. He has been a
BIG help on my project.
Enough tom-foolery... back to work.
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353238#353238
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
Subject: | Re: Wooden Lift Struts (Update) |
http://carlsonaircraft.com/struts.html
Michael Perez
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
Subject: | Re: Here I am...another new guy |
One of the advantages of making your workbench table top 30" wide is that it
leaves you a piece of plywood about 18" wide which can be added under the
workbench to make a nice shelf for storing wood or anything else. Here is a
picture of my workbench with the fuselage assembled on top of it:
And here you can see the shelf under the workbench:
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Church
Sent: Monday, September 26, 2011 10:05 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Here I am...another new guy
Welcome to the group, John.
When it comes to tools, everybody has their preferred methods.
Ideally, we would all have very spacious, fully equipped workshops (and an
infinite amount of free time and disposable income). However, in the real
world, we make do with what we have (well I do, anyway). It sounds as though
you are faced with starting from scratch, as far as equipping your workshop.
While all of the tools you have listed can be used to good advantage in
building a Piet, it isn't really necessary to have all of them. Many tasks
can be accomplished by several means, depending on the ingenuity of the
builder. In my case, I built up my woodworking tool collection over many
years, prior to starting my Piet so I didn't have to decide what tools to
buy before starting (but still use any excuse available to acquire a new
toy... I mean tool). I chose to buy my Sitka in rough-sawn planks, and
milled it all myself, so a table saw was a necessity. Aircraft Spruce and
Wick's do not sell rough-sawn lumber, so if you want to go that route,
you'll have to find another sou!
rce for your wood, and be prepared to do your own grading. Buying your wood
pre-milled would make the table saw less critical to have. I do have a
thickness planer, so I used it, but it isn't totally necessary. I also have
a (electric) miter saw, and so far have used it to cut ZERO parts for my
Piet. However, I have used my disc sander for almost every piece. Rough cut
the pieces to length, and fine tune the mitered ends on the disc sander -
works like a charm.
There are a lot of metal parts in this "all-wood" airplane, and you'll
likely need that bandsaw to cut out the metal parts (unless you have access
to a metal shop), but most of the metal parts will need to be made to fit
the wooden structures that you actually made, so they won't be required
until a little later in the project. My suggestion would be to acquire the
tools as you need them, rather than buying a whole shop full of tools in one
shot. That way you can spend a little time with each new tool, getting to
know how each one works, before cutting into your airplane parts.
As far as the workbench goes, I'm not sure what you're talking about - you
plan to use a 4' x 8' floor as your workbench, with a 2 foot deep cutout on
one side, and mount your tools on the workbench? You will eventually need a
workbench about 15 feet long to build your fuselage on. Like Jack suggested,
you should probably build 2 benches 8 feet long, and about 30 inches wide
(you will need the full 24 inches for the fuselage, and you'll want a bit of
extra room - but not too much - 4 feet is too wide to reach across). Here's
a link to some plans for simple but effective workbenches (but as I said,
I'd suggest making them about 6" wider - even though that means spending a
few extra bucks for the extra plywood)
http://www.eaa1000.av.org/technicl/worktabl/tablefig.htm
As for your workspace, a 2 car garage should work just fine for most of the
build. I only have a 1 1/2, and although it's squishy at times, it works. I
have, however heard that people sometimes use garages to store cars - weird
idea. I live further North than you, and I can work almost year round, by
making use of a small space heater in the winter - it all depends on your
desire to get things built. In my case, I use whatever time is available to
me, so if that happens in the winter months, then that's when I build (the
T-88 just takes longer to cure in colder temps).
Oh, one more thing... unlike a bathroom reno, there shouldn't be any sewer
connections on the Piet (assuming you build to the plans).
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353225#353225
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Wooden Lift Struts (Update) |
From: | "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca> |
One thing to keep in mind, regarding the weights of various struts, is that the
only truly relevant weight will be the OVERALL weight of the completed strut
(including end fittings). Different strut materials will require different fittings
at each end - some heavier than others. For instance, steel struts can have
the end fittings welded in place, whereas aluminum or wooden struts will require
bolted connections (which are always heavier than welds). Therefore the
real comparison should be between the completed strut assemblies.
Just sayin'.
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353241#353241
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Wooden Lift Struts (Update) |
From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
Bill Church wrote:
> the real comparison should be between the completed strut assemblies.
True.
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353244#353244
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Wooden Lift Struts (Update) |
From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
It has come to my attention (again) that embedded images do not play well for e-mail
readers. I am a web reader and I really don't like the way that the attachment
feature screws up the web formatting, so I choose to embed images when
I can. Sorry if this messes things up for those of you that receive e-mails
or the daily digest.
If you would like to see the photos, go to this link... http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=84475
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353251#353251
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | AMsafetyC(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Wooden Lift Struts (Update) |
Mark,
Some really great work on those struts except you got the light wood on the
wrong side.
nice job Mark
John
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Wooden Lift Struts (Update) |
From: | "skellytown flyer" <skellflyer1(at)yahoo.com> |
Those arr beautiful, and I know it will work. but it would be interesting to make
a short test section with the end fittings you are going to use and pull them
on some type test rig and see what the ultimate yield is. I wish I had done
something like that on my aluminum ones just for fun. might be a good winter
project but then I don't really have a way to pull test them either.Raymond. do
not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353283#353283
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | kmordecai001(at)comcast.net |
Subject: | Re: Mystery Engine - McCulloch? |
In=C2-Volume 2, Number 3 of Torque Meter, the Journal of the Aircraft Eng
ine Historical Society, Kevin Cameron wrote:=C2-"In 1963, McCulloch began
to consider whether a derivative and civilized two stroke might find sales
in=C2-light aviation.=C2- In the early 1970's they revealed a water co
oled turbocharged 5 cylinder=C2-radial two stroke.=C2- It's diameter wa
s small because it had no valve mechanism atop it's heads, (spark plugs wer
e steeply angled=C2-as well) and it was of short stroke design.=C2- =C2
-.....developed 270 sea level horsepower from 188.7 cubic inches and util
ized direct injection. .........maximum permissible speed of 4,200 rpm.
This sound like it could be it! =C2- =C2-
Dave Mordecai
NX520SF
Panacea, FL
=C2-( Does anyone know anything about the attached engine? =C2-Watercoo
led, 5 cyl radial, dual plugs,
Bosch injected, Garrett turbocharged, prop reduction belts. =C2-I suspect
it is
a one-of but that's a LOT of work and expense. =C2-Any gearheads out ther
e have some
ideas?
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Wooden Lift Struts (Update) |
From: | "bender" <jfaith(at)solairusaviation.com> |
not to scientific but i took a section of the small aluminum strut and drilled
a 5/16 hole 1/2 "from each end, added a bolt ...loose with no filler or reinforcement
and attached it to a 3 ton hoist and a 4800lb tug... only a cable on
each end around the bolts..just as the tug broke ground the aluminum gave away
at a bolt hole..
made me feel ok... knowing i actually had ends to spread the load on the real thing..
those wood struts are beautiful...
jeff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353296#353296
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Mystery Engine - McCulloch? |
From: | "MyrickPiet" <N762sierra(at)gmail.com> |
The Piet guys come thru! Thank you Dave Mordecai in FL. If I could award a prize
you would probably win it. Sounds very much like the right one. I have
passed on the information to the Oklahoma Science Museum where the engine is
on display with many question marks.
(Does anyone know anything about the attached engine? Watercooled, 5 cyl radial,
dual plugs,
Bosch injected, Garrett turbocharged, prop reduction belts. I suspect it is
a one-of but that's a LOT of work and expense. Any gearheads out there have some
ideas?
> [b]
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353298#353298
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Here I am...another new guy |
From: | "Pocono John" <tinmotion(at)yahoo.com> |
Thank you everyone for the warm welcome and your ideas. I take constructive criticism
well, so feel free to speak your mind.
As far as tools, I wanted to research and see what is out there and learn the language.
I'll definitely hold off buying until I need it, but at least the research
is done and I have a model number in mind. The funny thing is now when I'm
out with my wife, I park so we have to go through the tool department.
My garage has 22' X 19' of working space I can use. It has two doors, 7' high.
Here are my responses to some of your questions/comments:
JACK
I do have the plan's (plus supplements, the booklet...everything I could order).
I want the long fuselage. Are the plans I have for long? How can I tell?
I prefer a one piece wing. If I can put the wing together in warm weather, then
bring it and the fuselage to a final assembly location, that should work. Are
there things I should consider besides the space saving convenience of three
wing sections?
I prefer the straight axle wooden gear (looks nice), but wondering if it's rough
on the plane. Split axle appears to provide more cushion. Not sure what I'll
do.
GARY
You're sure good at utilizing your garage space. I'm impressed!
MARK
Thanks. I plan to cut in the garage and since we're getting into cold weather,
I'll assemble each rib in the house and since there's no rush, I'll use one of
the techniques from websites I've seen to clamp gussets. I probably am thinking
too much, but I want to have the layout established. Thanks for the Craigs
list idea. Thanks for the photos of your work bench..
DAVE
Flew at Bar Harbor? CLE Chief?
KEN
We have so many digital cameras here, and all junk. I sure miss the days of 35mm.
I'm going to try to find something that takes good photos. I tried a camera
tonight; took some test photos of what's left of my old hobby room.
BILL
Yes, I'm starting from scratch with tools. I'm amazed at how many things I've built
with just some basics: Circular and jig saw and my trusty variable speed/reversible
drill. You wrote "As far as the workbench goes, I'm not sure what you're
talking about - you plan to use a 4' x 8' floor as your workbench, with
a 2 foot deep cutout on one side, and mount your tools on the workbench?"...what
I meant was I thought that would serve as an area to place tools or mount a
vise (odds and ends?). For ribs and fuselage, I'll build a table specifically
for that such as the one EAA 100 designed. I may still build the Tony Bingelis
30" X 30" tool table. I guess I'll see what happens.
TOM
Thanks for the hobby miter box suggestion.
I'm attaching a couple of photos to try this out and see if the camera is a piece
of junk like my others. This is what remains of my hobby room in which I built
model rockets. I can either chuck it, or use it as an area to put tools or
do miscellaneous work; still thinking.
YIKES! I'm looking at the preview and looks like I'm going to have to buy another
camera. Oh well!
OK, not going to think too much. I'll get some milled wood, some from Wicks and
Spruce and compare them. Meanwhile, I'll build the rib jig (as soon as I get
the garage ready).
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353303#353303
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/iphone_photos_002_867.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/iphone_photos_001_198.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Wooden Lift Struts (Update) |
From: | "jacktextor" <jtextor(at)thepalmergroup.com> |
Mark, very nice work! Thanks for sharing the operation.
Jack
DSM
--------
Jack Textor
Des Moines, IA
www.textors.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353316#353316
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
Subject: | Re: Here I am...another new guy |
Hi John,
The long fuselage plans are in the supplemental plans package from the
Pietenpol family, so you should have it, along with the "short" fuselage in
the Improved (1933) Air Camper plans. The shortest fuselage is in the 1932
Flying and Glider Manual plans.
The one-piece wing is slightly lighter, but is more difficult to handle,
even if you have the room for it in your shop, which it sounds like you do
not. The one-piece wing is 29' long and requires a space of at least 12' x
32' to be able to safely turn it over and move around it. Even with enough
space, it is troublesome to move it and handle it (you'll be surprised how
often it must be flipped over during the covering and painting process).
The three piece wing also offers more flexibility in use of the
centersection for baggage storage or fuel.
The straight axle wooden gear is considerably stronger and more rugged than
the split axle gear, with one important exception: The axle itself is under
quite a bit of stress and needs to be made of fairly heavy wall tubing,
which along with the weight of the wire wheels, makes this gear considerably
heavier than the split axle design. To minimize the stress on the axle,
keep the wheels as close to the undercarriage as possible. The use of
brakes adds complexity to this undercarriage design and also tends to
increase stress in the axle due to extending the wheels further from the
bungees which are resisting the wheel loads. As for being rough on the
plane, either gear as designed provide plenty of shock absorption. If I
were to build mine over, I would use the split axle gear with wire wheels,
but would use die springs instead of bungees. The bungees are just a pain
in the butt to change, and need to be replaced about every 2 - 3 years.
One other suggestion - when you send your first order to Aircraft Spruce,
buy their "Bargain Bag of Spruce" for $37.50 (Yikes - when I was building
mine, it was $15). There are a lot of pieces of my airplane that were made
from pieces of spruce I got from their bargain bag. You'll be surprised how
much of it you will use.
The best suggestion I have is for you to plan now to go to Brodhead next
July to see all the Pietenpols there. No two are alike, and every one of
their builders had to answer the same questions you are now asking yourself.
It's interesting to see how many different solutions to the same problem you
can find.
Good luck,
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pocono John
Sent: Monday, September 26, 2011 9:35 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Here I am...another new guy
Thank you everyone for the warm welcome and your ideas. I take constructive
criticism well, so feel free to speak your mind.
As far as tools, I wanted to research and see what is out there and learn
the language. I'll definitely hold off buying until I need it, but at least
the research is done and I have a model number in mind. The funny thing is
now when I'm out with my wife, I park so we have to go through the tool
department.
My garage has 22' X 19' of working space I can use. It has two doors, 7'
high.
Here are my responses to some of your questions/comments:
JACK
I do have the plan's (plus supplements, the booklet...everything I could
order).
I want the long fuselage. Are the plans I have for long? How can I tell?
I prefer a one piece wing. If I can put the wing together in warm weather,
then bring it and the fuselage to a final assembly location, that should
work. Are there things I should consider besides the space saving
convenience of three wing sections?
I prefer the straight axle wooden gear (looks nice), but wondering if it's
rough on the plane. Split axle appears to provide more cushion. Not sure
what I'll do.
GARY
You're sure good at utilizing your garage space. I'm impressed!
MARK
Thanks. I plan to cut in the garage and since we're getting into cold
weather, I'll assemble each rib in the house and since there's no rush, I'll
use one of the techniques from websites I've seen to clamp gussets. I
probably am thinking too much, but I want to have the layout established.
Thanks for the Craigs list idea. Thanks for the photos of your work bench..
DAVE
Flew at Bar Harbor? CLE Chief?
KEN
We have so many digital cameras here, and all junk. I sure miss the days of
35mm. I'm going to try to find something that takes good photos. I tried a
camera tonight; took some test photos of what's left of my old hobby room.
BILL
Yes, I'm starting from scratch with tools. I'm amazed at how many things
I've built with just some basics: Circular and jig saw and my trusty
variable speed/reversible drill. You wrote "As far as the workbench goes,
I'm not sure what you're talking about - you plan to use a 4' x 8' floor as
your workbench, with a 2 foot deep cutout on one side, and mount your tools
on the workbench?"...what I meant was I thought that would serve as an area
to place tools or mount a vise (odds and ends?). For ribs and fuselage, I'll
build a table specifically for that such as the one EAA 100 designed. I may
still build the Tony Bingelis 30" X 30" tool table. I guess I'll see what
happens.
TOM
Thanks for the hobby miter box suggestion.
I'm attaching a couple of photos to try this out and see if the camera is a
piece of junk like my others. This is what remains of my hobby room in which
I built model rockets. I can either chuck it, or use it as an area to put
tools or do miscellaneous work; still thinking.
YIKES! I'm looking at the preview and looks like I'm going to have to buy
another camera. Oh well!
OK, not going to think too much. I'll get some milled wood, some from Wicks
and Spruce and compare them. Meanwhile, I'll build the rib jig (as soon as I
get the garage ready).
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Here I am...another new guy |
From: | "Jerry Dotson" <jdotson(at)centurylink.net> |
John,
You need to start building your rib jig NOW. Order some 1/4 X 1/2 spruce capstrip,some
1/16 plywood and T-88 epoxy and get started. The details will fall into
place. You have a jigsaw so with a little time you can have a Piet rib to show
us.
What Jack P said. I built the one piece wing and have a 40 X 50 hangar. It is 32.5
feet. I just finished covering it. Without a fancy jig to hold it you will
need 4 people total to turn it over safely. Dan Helsper built the fancy jig.
I did not. I have turned it 3 times so far. Now the finishing (painting and sanding
starts) and turning starts. I figure to turn it at least 4 more times. I
am fortunate to have family and friends that can come over after work to help.
--------
Jerry Dotson
59 Daniel Johnson Rd
Baker, FL 32531
Started building NX510JD July, 2009
now covering
21" wheels
Lycoming O-235
Jay Anderson CloudCars prop
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353318#353318
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/a72_210.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/a71_126.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Mystery Engine - McCulloch? |
From: | "Jerry Dotson" <jdotson(at)centurylink.net> |
Look at this one.
http://www.pimaair.org/collection-detail.php?cid=319
--------
Jerry Dotson
59 Daniel Johnson Rd
Baker, FL 32531
Started building NX510JD July, 2009
now covering
21" wheels
Lycoming O-235
Jay Anderson CloudCars prop
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353319#353319
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Here I am...another new guy |
From: | helspersew(at)aol.com |
I prefer a one piece wing. If I can put the wing together in warm weather,
then
ring it and the fuselage to a final assembly location, that should work. Ar
e
here things I should consider besides the space saving convenience of three
ing sections?
With the one-piece wing, you will almost always need help turning it over d
uring the building process. It is difficult to paint, because there are ver
y few places to grab on while turning. Also, If you ever needed to move the
airplane with a truck or trailer it be a very long truck or trailer. But b
eing a purist, I had no choice but to do it.
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN
-----Original Message-----
From: Pocono John <tinmotion(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Mon, Sep 26, 2011 8:38 pm
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Here I am...another new guy
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
Subject: | Re: Here I am...another new guy |
Hello John and welcome. I see that you have already received many replies to your
questions and pictures as well. Rather then repeat all that, I just wanted
to welcome you personally.
Michael Perez
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Here I am...another new guy |
From: | "Pocono John" <tinmotion(at)yahoo.com> |
Thank you Michael. I'll wrap this up with a final comment.
I wish I could pick out wood since there's a place two hours away where I could
load up on spruce and plywood. Here is their page:
http://www.condonlumber.net/index.htm
Since I'm in no rush to fall out of the sky, I guess I'll have order from Wicks
and/or AS. If AC 43.13 had photos of what's good and what's not, maybe I'd take
a drive and check it out. Oh well!
Thanks again for all the advice. I'll start a new post when I have questions (later
today probably).
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353327#353327
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Here I am...another new guy |
From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
It does... right there in chapter 1.
Pocono John wrote:
> If AC 43.13 had photos of what's good and what's not, maybe I'd take a drive
and check it out.
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353328#353328
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Here I am...another new guy |
From: | "Pocono John" <tinmotion(at)yahoo.com> |
Not sure why my book has no photos. I went all through Chapter One and nothing.
Page 1-3 has descriptions of what is unacceptable, but that's it. Maybe I can
search the web for images.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353329#353329
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Here I am...another new guy |
From: | "dgaldrich" <dgaldrich(at)embarqmail.com> |
All it takes to grade wood is a decent ruler and a Mk I Calibrated Eyeball. Well
over 90% of sitka spruce will meet the "slope/straightness" requirements, especially
in the longer rough lengths. The ruler will tell you if the growth ring
specification is met. The other issue is defects -- pitch pockets, pin knots
and so on are pretty easy to see and can be worked around in the initial milling.
What may NOT be obvious is issues caused by mishandling -- crushed pieces
and so on. One of the members of this board got a questionable spar from
AS&S that they reluctantly replaced because it had been mishandled. A careful
inspection checking for abrupt changes of direction looking along the long edges
will give a clue. It might be worth a 2 hour drive to save on the shipping
costs, especially for the spar and longeron sized pieces that have to go by
truck.
I'm in Belfast, ME, 30 NM south from BHB, as the crow flies.
Dave
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353335#353335
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Here I am...another new guy |
From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
dgaldrich wrote:
> One of the members of this board got a questionable spar from AS&S that they
reluctantly replaced because it had been mishandled.
>
> Dave
They weren't THAT reluctant. Once the right people were made aware of the situation
they were fairly prompt in taking care of things. Just wanted to be clear
since I think it was my spar you were speaking of. It took them about 2 days
to work it up the chain, review the evidence with their people and resolve
the matter. Other than the spar, which could have been a big deal, I've always
got good products and service from AS&S.
The moral of the story... regardless of the source, inspect your materials closely
and buy from an outfit that will stand behind their product.
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353337#353337
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Ben Charvet <bencharvet(at)gmail.com> |
Subject: | Re: Here I am...another new guy |
My Piet was built of Douglas Fir bought locally and carefully graded by
me personally. 95 hours and it hasn't fallen out of the sky yet!
Ben
On 9/27/2011 1:16 PM, Pocono John wrote:
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Pocono John"
>
> Thank you Michael. I'll wrap this up with a final comment.
>
> I wish I could pick out wood since there's a place two hours away where I could
load up on spruce and plywood. Here is their page:
>
> http://www.condonlumber.net/index.htm
>
> Since I'm in no rush to fall out of the sky, I guess I'll have order from Wicks
and/or AS. If AC 43.13 had photos of what's good and what's not, maybe I'd
take a drive and check it out. Oh well!
>
> Thanks again for all the advice. I'll start a new post when I have questions
(later today probably).
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353327#353327
>
>
--
Ben Charvet, PharmD
Staff Pharmacist
Parrish Medical center
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Miter Joints on ribs |
From: | "Kyle85" <boschkyle(at)hotmail.com> |
Hey Guys, I am new builder here and I just had a question regarding my ribs.
Has Anyone NOT cut miter joints for ribs and just cut to length and glued the gussets.
I really just want to make sure I am not wasting the precious time I do
have. I have a three year old, a month old baby, a wife, and a full time job
w/ OT. The only time I have to build is 4 AM to 6:30 AM before work. Not trying
to be hasty here, I just want to build a safe airplane in a somewhat timely
and efficient manner. Thanks in advance!
-Kyle
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353359#353359
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Doug Dever <chiefpepperhead(at)hotmail.com> |
Subject: | Miter Joints on ribs |
Tony Bingelis says either way is acceptable. I'm mitering mine. It just m
akes me feel better:)
Doug Dever
In beautiful Stow Ohio
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Miter Joints on ribs
> From: boschkyle(at)hotmail.com
> Date: Tue=2C 27 Sep 2011 15:04:26 -0700
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>
>
> Hey Guys=2C I am new builder here and I just had a question regarding my
ribs.
> Has Anyone NOT cut miter joints for ribs and just cut to length and glued
the gussets. I really just want to make sure I am not wasting the precious
time I do have. I have a three year old=2C a month old baby=2C a wife=2C a
nd a full time job w/ OT. The only time I have to build is 4 AM to 6:30 AM
before work. Not trying to be hasty here=2C I just want to build a safe air
plane in a somewhat timely and efficient manner. Thanks in advance!
> -Kyle
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353359#353359
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Miter Joints on ribs |
From: | "Kyle85" <boschkyle(at)hotmail.com> |
Yeah I hear ya Doug, my conscience is already getting the better of me. I will
probably
Just continue with the miter cuts and feel better about myself too :p
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353364#353364
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/2011_09_25_08_56_37_736_998.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Miter Joints on ribs |
From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
Yep, that's the way. I found it easiest to make a nice fitting set of master parts
and duplicate 32 times for each. Much more efficient than walking back and
forth to the band saw and disc sander for each rib. These aren't all my parts,
but you get the idea.
Same goes for the gussets. Regardless of the style you choose to make, make them
all and press on.
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353378#353378
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | OT - Flight Service is Hiring |
From: | Wayne Bressler <wayne(at)taildraggersinc.com> |
This is off-topic, but I hope the information might help someone find a job. I'm
trying to share this information with as many people as possible. Please pardon
the post, otherwise.
___________________________
The job postings were listed today for developmental positions at the Lockheed
Martin Flight Service Washington Hub in Ashburn, VA. The website shows ten openings.
This may be a nice career for people on this list, or someone you know. Please
forward this around to any person or group who might be interested.
Even if someone doesn't meet the "minimums", I recommend applying anyway. You never
know.
These postings will likely not be up for long, so get your submission completed
ASAP.
To find all ten openings, go to www.lockheedmartinjobs.com and search "AFSS".
Please let me know if you have any questions!
Wayne Bressler
Taildraggers, Inc.
www.taildraggersinc.com
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Miter Joints on ribs |
From: | "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com> |
Kyle,
I asked this same question a few months ago. Here is a link to that discussion-
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=82296&highlight
John Kringle posted two photos of bridge gusset plates that answered my questions.
For sake of your search time, I have reposted them here. The strength of the
joint is the gusset and the quality of the attachment (glue) between the capstrip,
the vertical braces, and the gusset itself. But having said that, I am
still mitering the joints. I just do not worry as much about the miter joint
and worry more about getting the best coverage with the T88.
Hope that helps
--------
Semper Fi,
Terry Hand
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353405#353405
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/bridge2_854_429.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/bridge1_170_121.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Dan Loegering <dan.loegering(at)odaytank.com> |
Subject: | RE: Miter Joints on ribs |
Kyle,
I left out the miter on my ribs as it made the pre work a little easier. However,
if you are concerned about strength, do what I did - make yourself two joints,
one with the miter, and one without. Then test to destruction. Both of
my samples failed outside of the gussets in about the same location. That was
good enough for my ability to sleep at night ;-)
That said, I do believe the mitered joint would be stronger simply because there
is more glue surface area in contact, but the strength is not needed because
the adjoining material will fail before the actual joint will.
If you do decide to use square ends, make sure you still put some glue on the cut
end to seal it during assembly, otherwise you may have a hard time working
varnish into the corner enough to seal these surfaces.
Dan Loegering
Fargo, ND
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Miter Joints on ribs
From: "Kyle85" <boschkyle(at)hotmail.com>
Hey Guys, I am new builder here and I just had a question regarding my ribs.
Has Anyone NOT cut miter joints for ribs and just cut to length and glued the gussets.
I really just want to make sure I am not wasting the precious time I do have. I
have a three year old, a month old baby, a wife, and a full time job w/ OT. The
only time I have to build is 4 AM to 6:30 AM before work. Not trying to be
hasty here, I just want to build a safe airplane in a somewhat timely and efficient
manner. Thanks in advance!
-Kyle
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com> |
Subject: | Re: RE: Miter Joints on ribs |
Yes it would probably be ok to leave the rib sticks square......but this is
a good time to hoan your skills on a good fitting joint.- You will not w
ant to do that on the rest of the project, a rib is a lot cheaper than a fu
selage side to rebuild.
practice, practice, practice, Practice dosn't make perfect, perfect practic
e makes perfect.
-
Just My oppinion on the subject, to each their own.
Shad
-
--- On Wed, 9/28/11, Dan Loegering wrote:
From: Dan Loegering <dan.loegering(at)odaytank.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: RE: Miter Joints on ribs
Date: Wednesday, September 28, 2011, 9:46 AM
.com>
Kyle,
I left out the miter on my ribs as it made the pre work a little easier.-
However, if you are concerned about strength, do what I did - make yoursel
f two joints, one with the miter, and one without.- Then test to destruct
ion.- Both of my samples failed outside of the gussets in about the same
location.- That was good enough for my ability to sleep at night ;-)
That said, I do believe the mitered joint would be stronger simply because
there is more glue surface area in contact, but the strength is not needed
because the adjoining material will fail before the actual joint will.
If you do decide to use square ends, make sure you still put some glue on t
he cut end to seal it during assembly, otherwise you may have a hard time w
orking varnish into the corner enough to seal these surfaces.
Dan Loegering
Fargo, ND
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Miter Joints on ribs
From: "Kyle85" <boschkyle(at)hotmail.com>
Hey Guys, I am new builder here and I just had a question regarding my ribs
.
Has Anyone NOT cut miter joints for ribs and just cut to length and glued t
he gussets.
I really just want to make sure I am not wasting the precious time I do hav
e. I have a three year old, a month old baby, a wife, and a full time job w
/ OT. The only time I have to build is 4 AM to 6:30 AM before work. Not try
ing to be hasty here, I just want to build a safe airplane in a somewhat ti
mely and efficient manner. Thanks in advance!
-Kyle
le, List Admin.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Miter Joints on ribs |
From: | "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com> |
Dan,
I was going to bring this up in a separate post, but since you mentioned it here,
I will keep it here as part of this thread.
I have thought that I, like you, would feel better about the strength of my wing
ribs if I test one to destruction. I just have not known how. Could you elaborate
on how you did that? What were your methods and what were your results?
Did you change anything about the way that you built your ribs as a result?
Thanks in advance for the information.
--------
Semper Fi,
Terry Hand
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353413#353413
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Miter Joints on ribs |
Terry,
Here's a simple rig I set up for testing my gluing technique. I glued up
the sample in my jig, clamping the same way I do for a full rib. The
sand bags are 10lbs each. I also have a rig for testing a full rib, but
unfortunately no pictures. For the full rib I have two 4' spar sections
(lumber store pine) and I center 1 rib on the spars. I have 4x4s with a
3/4" slot cut in them at 14 degree angle to simulate high angle of
attack. The stub spar and rib assembly is set inverted on the saw horses
with the nose of the rib pointed down the 14 degrees. Distribute the
sand bags chordwise along the rib.
Ken
On Sep 28, 2011, at 7:44 AM, jarheadpilot82 wrote:
>
> Dan,
>
> I was going to bring this up in a separate post, but since you
mentioned it here, I will keep it here as part of this thread.
>
> I have thought that I, like you, would feel better about the strength
of my wing ribs if I test one to destruction. I just have not known how.
Could you elaborate on how you did that? What were your methods and what
were your results? Did you change anything about the way that you built
your ribs as a result?
>
> Thanks in advance for the information.
>
> --------
> Semper Fi,
>
> Terry Hand
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353413#353413
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
Subject: | Re: Miter Joints on ribs |
Here's a picture of my miter cuts. Not necessary, but as noted, once figured out,
you can make all the miters quite quick.
Michael Perez
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Miter Joints on ribs |
From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
Ohh, now look at that. Strange how we look at things differently. All of my verticals
were butted to the ribs while the diagonals were fitted in between the
verticals... opposite of yours. I guess there is no right or wrong way structurally,
but that just looks more difficult to me, although it is essentially
the same.
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353435#353435
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Miter Joints on ribs |
From: | "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com> |
I mitered all of mine in my Piet. But since then I've rebuilt some Aeronca and
Taylorcraft wings with the same type of built up wood ribs. Both of them used
square joints in theirs. This past spring the L-2 wing I built has all squared
off pieces which is right off of the prints. It went amazingly faster. I
was able to build the set of ribs in a matter of days instead of months. Thank
you Taylorcraft. :-) The strength really is in the gussett.
Don Emch
NX899DE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353441#353441
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Bob edson" <robertse(at)centurytel.net> |
We have the tail feathers covered,filled,primed and starting to paint
with Stuart system- it works great. Ready to start covering wings and
want to know what tension to put on the different cables. We have a
tension gage so what is the tension required? Bob picture
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Dan Yocum <yocum(at)fnal.gov> |
Subject: | Re: cable tension |
This has been discussed in the past the list - I'm sure it's in the
archives. I think Pietenpol in the key of G is the answer. ;-)
Not too tight and not too loose. I think people have tightened with
their fingers and then gone one more full turn.
It doesn't need much, that's for sure. I've heard people say 8lb to
40lb. I think 40lb might be too much. When I do my pre-flight I give
them a strum and a low G is about right.
On 09/28/2011 04:36 PM, Bob edson wrote:
> We have the tail feathers covered,filled,primed and starting to paint
> with Stuart system- it works great. Ready to start covering wings and
> want to know what tension to put on the different cables. We have a
> tension gage so what is the tension required? Bob picture
--
Dan Yocum
Fermilab 630.840.6509
yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Miter Joints on ribs |
From: | "Kyle85" <boschkyle(at)hotmail.com> |
Haha! You guys are great, I really do appreciate all the replies. The only downside
is in my quest to save time on the ribs, it looks now like I will spend more
time experimenting and testing. Oh well, small price to pay for an education!
Thanks again guys.
-Kyle
>From Iowa....just live in New York
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353475#353475
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: cable tension |
From: | "bender" <jfaith(at)solairusaviation.com> |
things seem to get funky if you tighten the cables on the piet too much..
it kinda freaked me out at first.. but.. thats the way things were back then.
i have a reprint of a Jenny manual and it says...
"tighten the cables to till they are not slack but not so tight that they sing"
i think a tensiometer is not going to go that low
jeff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353477#353477
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> |
Subject: | Re: Miter Joints on ribs |
Mark, I had Michael's video before I started my ribs but I did mine as you
did -- his way looked way too complicated for me. I wonder which is
stronger. According to the post regarding the joint test (with the sand
bags) it really doesn't matter -- the rib cap strip is going to break before
the joint, anyway.
----- Original Message -----
From: "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net>
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2011 1:20 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Miter Joints on ribs
>
> Ohh, now look at that. Strange how we look at things differently. All of
> my verticals were butted to the ribs while the diagonals were fitted in
> between the verticals... opposite of yours. I guess there is no right or
> wrong way structurally, but that just looks more difficult to me, although
> it is essentially the same.
>
>
> --------
> Mark Chouinard
> Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353435#353435
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> |
Subject: | Re: cable tension |
Bob, the picture looks great. I will be glad when I get to that point.
I will figure that I am about 99.44 % complete.
----- Original Message -----
From: Bob edson
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2011 5:36 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: cable tension
We have the tail feathers covered,filled,primed and starting to paint
with Stuart system- it works great. Ready to start covering wings and
want to know what tension to put on the different cables. We have a
tension gage so what is the tension required? Bob picture
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | machined control horns? |
From: | "j_dunavin" <j_dunavin(at)hotmail.com> |
I thought that i saw someone on the forum who had machined one piece, solid horns.
They looked like .25 in. thick. Can anyone help me out here, or am i loosing
my mind?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353504#353504
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: machined control horns? |
From: | "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca> |
Hmmm... I think that maybe the person who made the solid control horns (if they
did) might be the one who was losing their mind. Solid control horns - even if
made of aluminum - would weigh considerably more than the hollow, light gauge
steel horns shown in the plans, and with no discernible benefit. From a design
standpoint, in my opinion, the plans-built control horns are an excellent combination
of strength, lightness and beauty. Almost everyone that has made theirs
to the plans is surprised by how easy they actually are to build, and how
strong they are.
My 2 cents (that you didn't even ask for).
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353510#353510
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "TOM STINEMETZE" <TOMS(at)mcpcity.com> |
Subject: | Re: machined control horns? |
There was a company marketing these not too long back and I purchased a
set on eBay but then decided not to use them. You can have them for the
postage if you want them. E-mail me off list for details: toms at
mcpcity dot com
Tom Stinemetze
N328X
>>> "j_dunavin" 9/29/2011 6:15 AM >>>
I thought that i saw someone on the forum who had machined one piece,
solid horns. They looked like .25 in. thick. Can anyone help me out here,
or am i loosing my mind?
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Ok, so I cheated and am doing this backwards. |
From: | "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com> |
After 18 or so years of research on a Piet, and after taking my rather enterprising
son to Brodhead this year... he proclaimed he could buy one faster than I
can build one.
Him starting his last year at home, I figured he had a point so I set out looking
for one for us to fly while I build one.
Sort of remembering that one was going to be for sale at Brodhead, and disappointed
that I didn't see it there (it was there, I just didn't know which one) I
found by reading old posts that it was Dick Navratil's NX2RN (his first Piet,
blue and yellow with an A-65). Turns it, it's the exact configuration I want
to build, except I'm sort of leaning towards a Model A. However, I've never
thought having an aviation engine was a bad thing in a plane. Also, having no
light civil aviation experience and having never owned a plane... thought the
A-65 would be great!
So, I call Dick, fly to MN, he graciously picks me up, drives me way out to the
plane, I look it over (can't get a ride because Dick's biannual checkride is
out of date) and REALLY like it!
Here's my son's conditions. He wants a Piet, he didn't care about configuration,
but was insistent I didn't buy a project!
This plane was perfect. Tested but not old, solid as a rock, materials and workmanship
in the build perfectly documented and beyond question in my mind. So
I jump in it (it's the short fuse) and about cry. No way I can manipulate the
rudder.... I'm heartbroken. Dick says to taxi it around. I've never even
taxied a tailwheel plane in my LIFE! But, I decide to take him up on it. It
starts on one pull, and with the steerable tailwheel I realize the pedals aren't
too bad. I pull the trigger and strike a deal!
Now, second problem. Remember no projects? Not quite true, I AM the project.
Not only havn't I not taxied a tailwheel, I've never flown one either! Good
news, this plane is in MN. I right then start a month long stint in a hotel in
St Paul getting checked out a very similar plane... the venerable Airbus A-330...
Ya, I went to MN late Sep to get checked out in two planes. One with a wingspan
of the other's takeoff roll.
Now, going to say this here. This is a great plane. But it's NOTHING compared
to the man who agreed to let me buy it. Dick insisted it be freshly annualled.
He insisted on a few other nice things. He hauled my butt out to that airport
a dozen or more times. He had me over for dinner. In the buy, he agreed
to help me with the annual condition inspection if I bring it to Brodhead. He
agreed to letting me keep it in his hangar (possibly till next spring!) until
I can ferry it a thousand miles home. More than all of that, just one hell
of a great guy. One might say I bought a good friend and got a free plane in
the deal, but friends like that can't be bought at any price.
So, Dick helps me find a tailwheel instructor at Osceola (where the plane is) and
patiently waits around on a couple trips while I get an endorsement. Two rides
in a 180hp Super Decathalon (in the front seat) and I have an endorsement.
YIKES. Took one more ride in the back seat of a 110hp BRAND NEW Champ. Uh,
that thing had a moving map display with terrain alerting! It's better than
the map in a $100 million dollar Airbus! Very gusty, feel better.... but still...
yikes.
Two days ago I run the Piet up and down the grass strip with the tail up... wow.
First few tries I aborted way early in that process. But figured it out reasonably
quick. Yesterday Dick takes me up for a few landings. THAT HELPED a
TON. So, under no pressure at all (it was a BEAUTIFUL day), the builder and
my son there watching, only a few hours after my type rating ride with the FAA
in an Airbus A330, I flew the Piet!
What a day. Nearly 20 years of waiting for that, I flew solo for the first time
since Mar 1, 1999 (and that was a A-4), my first light civil flight since July
of 1982, I got to fly a Piet.
I'm flying the Airbus to Barcelona tomorrow, so hope to get up next week to ferry
the Piet back. Going to be a fun few days for my son and I.
I would be interested in recommendations for fuel and overnight stops between St
Paul and Chatt TN if anyone knows that route well.
Don't worry, this has completely increased my resolve to get cracking on my Piet.
Not giving up on that at all. Besides, don't want to fight my son for time
in the plane!
Cheers,
Tools
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353516#353516
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
Subject: | Ok, so I cheated and am doing this backwards. |
Congratulations on buying Dick's Pietenpol, and on finally learning how to
fly a REAL airplane, one without a training wheel on the front.
As for good stops along your trip, one place that is pretty much in a direct
line between Mineapolis and Chattanooga that I've landed is Mattoon,
Illinois (MTO). They have a nice grass runway and a great restaurant on the
field (try their Elephant Ear sandwich).
Slightly out of your way, but worth the deviation, is Poplar Grove, Illinois
(C77). Two good grass runways there, along with the friendliest FBO
(particularly to Pietenpol people) I've ever seen.
Closer to Chattanooga, try Tullahoma, Tennessee (THA). They have a nice
2900' grass runway in addition to two paved runways, and the Staggerwing
Museum is on the field. Self-Service Fuel. The Jack Daniels Distillery is
only 11 miles away, and the George Dickel Distillery is even closer.
Good Luck!
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of tools
Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 10:34 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Ok, so I cheated and am doing this backwards.
After 18 or so years of research on a Piet, and after taking my rather
enterprising son to Brodhead this year... he proclaimed he could buy one
faster than I can build one.
Him starting his last year at home, I figured he had a point so I set out
looking for one for us to fly while I build one.
Sort of remembering that one was going to be for sale at Brodhead, and
disappointed that I didn't see it there (it was there, I just didn't know
which one) I found by reading old posts that it was Dick Navratil's NX2RN
(his first Piet, blue and yellow with an A-65). Turns it, it's the exact
configuration I want to build, except I'm sort of leaning towards a Model A.
However, I've never thought having an aviation engine was a bad thing in a
plane. Also, having no light civil aviation experience and having never
owned a plane... thought the A-65 would be great!
So, I call Dick, fly to MN, he graciously picks me up, drives me way out to
the plane, I look it over (can't get a ride because Dick's biannual
checkride is out of date) and REALLY like it!
Here's my son's conditions. He wants a Piet, he didn't care about
configuration, but was insistent I didn't buy a project!
This plane was perfect. Tested but not old, solid as a rock, materials and
workmanship in the build perfectly documented and beyond question in my
mind. So I jump in it (it's the short fuse) and about cry. No way I can
manipulate the rudder.... I'm heartbroken. Dick says to taxi it around.
I've never even taxied a tailwheel plane in my LIFE! But, I decide to take
him up on it. It starts on one pull, and with the steerable tailwheel I
realize the pedals aren't too bad. I pull the trigger and strike a deal!
Now, second problem. Remember no projects? Not quite true, I AM the
project. Not only havn't I not taxied a tailwheel, I've never flown one
either! Good news, this plane is in MN. I right then start a month long
stint in a hotel in St Paul getting checked out a very similar plane... the
venerable Airbus A-330...
Ya, I went to MN late Sep to get checked out in two planes. One with a
wingspan of the other's takeoff roll.
Now, going to say this here. This is a great plane. But it's NOTHING
compared to the man who agreed to let me buy it. Dick insisted it be
freshly annualled. He insisted on a few other nice things. He hauled my
butt out to that airport a dozen or more times. He had me over for dinner.
In the buy, he agreed to help me with the annual condition inspection if I
bring it to Brodhead. He agreed to letting me keep it in his hangar
(possibly till next spring!) until I can ferry it a thousand miles home.
More than all of that, just one hell of a great guy. One might say I bought
a good friend and got a free plane in the deal, but friends like that can't
be bought at any price.
So, Dick helps me find a tailwheel instructor at Osceola (where the plane
is) and patiently waits around on a couple trips while I get an endorsement.
Two rides in a 180hp Super Decathalon (in the front seat) and I have an
endorsement. YIKES. Took one more ride in the back seat of a 110hp BRAND
NEW Champ. Uh, that thing had a moving map display with terrain alerting!
It's better than the map in a $100 million dollar Airbus! Very gusty, feel
better.... but still... yikes.
Two days ago I run the Piet up and down the grass strip with the tail up...
wow. First few tries I aborted way early in that process. But figured it
out reasonably quick. Yesterday Dick takes me up for a few landings. THAT
HELPED a TON. So, under no pressure at all (it was a BEAUTIFUL day), the
builder and my son there watching, only a few hours after my type rating
ride with the FAA in an Airbus A330, I flew the Piet!
What a day. Nearly 20 years of waiting for that, I flew solo for the first
time since Mar 1, 1999 (and that was a A-4), my first light civil flight
since July of 1982, I got to fly a Piet.
I'm flying the Airbus to Barcelona tomorrow, so hope to get up next week to
ferry the Piet back. Going to be a fun few days for my son and I.
I would be interested in recommendations for fuel and overnight stops
between St Paul and Chatt TN if anyone knows that route well.
Don't worry, this has completely increased my resolve to get cracking on my
Piet. Not giving up on that at all. Besides, don't want to fight my son
for time in the plane!
Cheers,
Tools
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353516#353516
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Ok, so I cheated and am doing this backwards. |
From: | "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com> |
Tools,
Nicely done! Let me know when you get it back home and I will drive up to see it.
Congrats to you and your son.
--------
Semper Fi,
Terry Hand
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353524#353524
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Ben Charvet <bencharvet(at)gmail.com> |
Subject: | Re: Ok, so I cheated and am doing this backwards. |
I did something similar and bought a Baby Ace half-way through my
build. Nice thing about airplanes like the one you bought.. if you dont
break it, it will probably be worth the same price when you finish your
project. My motivation was to be ready to test-fly when the time came.
As much fun as your first flight in NX2RN was, your first flight in an
airplane you built yourself will be even better. You also have the
opportunity to know what you like/don't like/or could improve on when
you build your own. Enjoy!
Ben Charvet
Titusville, Fl
On 9/29/2011 10:34 AM, tools wrote:
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "tools"
>
> After 18 or so years of research on a Piet, and after taking my rather enterprising
son to Brodhead this year... he proclaimed he could buy one faster than
I can build one.
>
> Him starting his last year at home, I figured he had a point so I set out looking
for one for us to fly while I build one.
>
> Sort of remembering that one was going to be for sale at Brodhead, and disappointed
that I didn't see it there (it was there, I just didn't know which one)
I found by reading old posts that it was Dick Navratil's NX2RN (his first Piet,
blue and yellow with an A-65). Turns it, it's the exact configuration I want
to build, except I'm sort of leaning towards a Model A. However, I've never
thought having an aviation engine was a bad thing in a plane. Also, having
no light civil aviation experience and having never owned a plane... thought the
A-65 would be great!
>
> So, I call Dick, fly to MN, he graciously picks me up, drives me way out to the
plane, I look it over (can't get a ride because Dick's biannual checkride is
out of date) and REALLY like it!
>
> Here's my son's conditions. He wants a Piet, he didn't care about configuration,
but was insistent I didn't buy a project!
>
> This plane was perfect. Tested but not old, solid as a rock, materials and workmanship
in the build perfectly documented and beyond question in my mind.
So I jump in it (it's the short fuse) and about cry. No way I can manipulate
the rudder.... I'm heartbroken. Dick says to taxi it around. I've never even
taxied a tailwheel plane in my LIFE! But, I decide to take him up on it. It
starts on one pull, and with the steerable tailwheel I realize the pedals aren't
too bad. I pull the trigger and strike a deal!
>
> Now, second problem. Remember no projects? Not quite true, I AM the project.
Not only havn't I not taxied a tailwheel, I've never flown one either! Good
news, this plane is in MN. I right then start a month long stint in a hotel
in St Paul getting checked out a very similar plane... the venerable Airbus A-330...
>
> Ya, I went to MN late Sep to get checked out in two planes. One with a wingspan
of the other's takeoff roll.
>
> Now, going to say this here. This is a great plane. But it's NOTHING compared
to the man who agreed to let me buy it. Dick insisted it be freshly annualled.
He insisted on a few other nice things. He hauled my butt out to that airport
a dozen or more times. He had me over for dinner. In the buy, he agreed
to help me with the annual condition inspection if I bring it to Brodhead.
He agreed to letting me keep it in his hangar (possibly till next spring!) until
I can ferry it a thousand miles home. More than all of that, just one hell
of a great guy. One might say I bought a good friend and got a free plane in
the deal, but friends like that can't be bought at any price.
>
> So, Dick helps me find a tailwheel instructor at Osceola (where the plane is)
and patiently waits around on a couple trips while I get an endorsement. Two
rides in a 180hp Super Decathalon (in the front seat) and I have an endorsement.
YIKES. Took one more ride in the back seat of a 110hp BRAND NEW Champ.
Uh, that thing had a moving map display with terrain alerting! It's better than
the map in a $100 million dollar Airbus! Very gusty, feel better.... but still...
yikes.
>
> Two days ago I run the Piet up and down the grass strip with the tail up... wow.
First few tries I aborted way early in that process. But figured it out
reasonably quick. Yesterday Dick takes me up for a few landings. THAT HELPED
a TON. So, under no pressure at all (it was a BEAUTIFUL day), the builder and
my son there watching, only a few hours after my type rating ride with the FAA
in an Airbus A330, I flew the Piet!
>
> What a day. Nearly 20 years of waiting for that, I flew solo for the first time
since Mar 1, 1999 (and that was a A-4), my first light civil flight since
July of 1982, I got to fly a Piet.
>
> I'm flying the Airbus to Barcelona tomorrow, so hope to get up next week to ferry
the Piet back. Going to be a fun few days for my son and I.
>
> I would be interested in recommendations for fuel and overnight stops between
St Paul and Chatt TN if anyone knows that route well.
>
> Don't worry, this has completely increased my resolve to get cracking on my Piet.
Not giving up on that at all. Besides, don't want to fight my son for time
in the plane!
>
> Cheers,
>
> Tools
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353516#353516
>
>
--
Ben Charvet, PharmD
Staff Pharmacist
Parrish Medical center
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Ok, so I cheated and am doing this backwards. |
From: | "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com> |
No doubt having Dick's bird to reference while I build (hence the excitement about
it being configured so closely to how I want to build) will be invaluable.
As well as being more prepared to flying it. I agree, flying one I built is
the next big thrill in my flying world.
I made a very serious omission in my initial writeup in that I forgot to mention
how warm a welcome I got in MSP from both the EAA community and the Piet guys
especially.
Dick was also super gracious in that he came and hauled my butt to the weekly meetings
in his hangar in Crystal, where the club Piet is being built. I got 75%
done (thought I had one more visit.... dammit!) with mortising in the hinges
in the horizontal stab/elevators. Lots of fun and great to get some hands on
several nights.
Was also treated to a ride way down to his EAA chapter's hangar and meeting everyone
there and a temporary pass to enter the SAC... Really a lot of great guys.
Kinda funny, but being a former military pilot and lifelong aviation junky anyway,
I've been to TONS of airshows, mostly big, and some small. Well, went to
Osceola's yearly airshow (this year combined with a car show) and coincidently
ran into no less than six people I knew (all met within the previous week or
two). I ran into two people I knew at Oshkosh two years ago, but that's it over
the last 30 or so years of airshows. VERY friendly and open folks.
Thanks to everyone for making a month long stint in a hotel a VERY memorable and
fun time (and I've got a number of these month and longer stints in hotels,
ships and shacks in the dessert under my belt)!
Tools
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353532#353532
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Ben Charvet <bencharvet(at)gmail.com> |
Subject: | Re: Ok, so I cheated and am doing this backwards. |
All you describe doesn't compare to showing up at Brodhead and seeing 30
guys you know!
Ben
On 9/29/2011 1:38 PM, tools wrote:
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "tools"
>
> No doubt having Dick's bird to reference while I build (hence the excitement
about it being configured so closely to how I want to build) will be invaluable.
As well as being more prepared to flying it. I agree, flying one I built
is the next big thrill in my flying world.
>
> I made a very serious omission in my initial writeup in that I forgot to mention
how warm a welcome I got in MSP from both the EAA community and the Piet guys
especially.
>
> Dick was also super gracious in that he came and hauled my butt to the weekly
meetings in his hangar in Crystal, where the club Piet is being built. I got
75% done (thought I had one more visit.... dammit!) with mortising in the hinges
in the horizontal stab/elevators. Lots of fun and great to get some hands
on several nights.
>
> Was also treated to a ride way down to his EAA chapter's hangar and meeting everyone
there and a temporary pass to enter the SAC... Really a lot of great
guys.
>
> Kinda funny, but being a former military pilot and lifelong aviation junky anyway,
I've been to TONS of airshows, mostly big, and some small. Well, went to
Osceola's yearly airshow (this year combined with a car show) and coincidently
ran into no less than six people I knew (all met within the previous week or
two). I ran into two people I knew at Oshkosh two years ago, but that's it
over the last 30 or so years of airshows. VERY friendly and open folks.
>
> Thanks to everyone for making a month long stint in a hotel a VERY memorable
and fun time (and I've got a number of these month and longer stints in hotels,
ships and shacks in the dessert under my belt)!
>
> Tools
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353532#353532
>
>
--
Ben Charvet, PharmD
Staff Pharmacist
Parrish Medical center
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | "The Last Original" Fly's Again |
From: | "dwilson" <marwilson(at)charter.net> |
Was just informed that the Last Original flew today at the Brodhead airport. Rebuilt
Corvair fired on the first blade. They are going to try and post a video
soon.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353540#353540
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Ok, so I cheated and am doing this backwards. |
From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
What a story! Good luck with your new bird, and your project.
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353543#353543
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: machined control horns? |
From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
I am ONE of the people that have made them, but I've decided not to use them.
Primarily because they would require some welding that would later be covered
by fabric... in other words, not easily inspectable. They turned out looking
nice, but that wasn't the point really.
Take my word for it and fabricate a set according to plans. They really are easy
and very strong. And yes, lighter to boot.
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353544#353544
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Ok, so I cheated and am doing this backwards. |
From: | "aerocarjake" <flight.jake(at)gmail.com> |
Congrats..... one of the best posts I have read in quite a while....... flying
and friendships, very nice.........
--------
Jake Schultz - curator,
Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353553#353553
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | rib wedges and one more question |
From: | "Kyle85" <boschkyle(at)hotmail.com> |
Hello once again, just getting ready to start my wing c-section soon. My first
question is do I install wedges between the rib and the spar, like the plans call
for? OR do i oversize the spar and taper it down to facilitate the ribs. I
do remember somthing awhile back about using plywood spacers, but can't seem
to dig it up on the archives. Also, do I need to put the ribs with the extra supports
on the rib root and on the outer portion of the center section? Thanks
again
-Kyle[/list]
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353558#353558
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
Subject: | rib wedges and one more question |
Kyle,
I used spruce wedges. A beveled spar would work fine, but is adding a
considerable amount of weight for no benefit (in between the ribs).
You need the ribs with extra support at the root and tip to withstand the
tension of the fabric, which can exert an incredible amount of force.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kyle85
Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 5:47 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: rib wedges and one more question
Hello once again, just getting ready to start my wing c-section soon. My
first question is do I install wedges between the rib and the spar, like the
plans call for? OR do i oversize the spar and taper it down to facilitate
the ribs. I do remember somthing awhile back about using plywood spacers,
but can't seem to dig it up on the archives. Also, do I need to put the ribs
with the extra supports on the rib root and on the outer portion of the
center section? Thanks again
-Kyle[/list]
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353558#353558
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Dick N" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
Subject: | Re: Ok, so I cheated and am doing this backwards. |
Thanks Mike
I'm reaaly going to miss that Pietenpol, it's going to be tough not hearing
that put put. Now I'll listen to that Rotec instead.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 12:38 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Ok, so I cheated and am doing this backwards.
>
> No doubt having Dick's bird to reference while I build (hence the
> excitement about it being configured so closely to how I want to build)
> will be invaluable. As well as being more prepared to flying it. I
> agree, flying one I built is the next big thrill in my flying world.
>
> I made a very serious omission in my initial writeup in that I forgot to
> mention how warm a welcome I got in MSP from both the EAA community and
> the Piet guys especially.
>
> Dick was also super gracious in that he came and hauled my butt to the
> weekly meetings in his hangar in Crystal, where the club Piet is being
> built. I got 75% done (thought I had one more visit.... dammit!) with
> mortising in the hinges in the horizontal stab/elevators. Lots of fun and
> great to get some hands on several nights.
>
> Was also treated to a ride way down to his EAA chapter's hangar and
> meeting everyone there and a temporary pass to enter the SAC... Really a
> lot of great guys.
>
> Kinda funny, but being a former military pilot and lifelong aviation junky
> anyway, I've been to TONS of airshows, mostly big, and some small. Well,
> went to Osceola's yearly airshow (this year combined with a car show) and
> coincidently ran into no less than six people I knew (all met within the
> previous week or two). I ran into two people I knew at Oshkosh two years
> ago, but that's it over the last 30 or so years of airshows. VERY
> friendly and open folks.
>
> Thanks to everyone for making a month long stint in a hotel a VERY
> memorable and fun time (and I've got a number of these month and longer
> stints in hotels, ships and shacks in the dessert under my belt)!
>
> Tools
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353532#353532
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
I think I've posted this reply before, but here's what I did on
Scout when re-rigging the struts and wings. I set up the wing
geometry the way I wanted it (washout and dihedral), then tensioned
the strut X-brace cables to where they were nice and snug but not
tight enough to worry me. How's that for scientific? I then
used a simple cable tensiometer from the local marine supply
house (sailboats) to make sure all the cable tensions were about equal.
You can do the same by twanging to see if they sound the same.
Same thing for the tail brace cables. You should note that all
the cables pull against one another to hold the assembly in rigid
geometric relationship to one another and that's all. If you
over-tension them, you begin to distort things or pre-load them
in ways that are not intended. The essence of geometric and
structural bracing is to prevent things from getting started in
a direction that you don't want them to go, because once they
get started in that direction, things become (as we engineers
say) "asymptotic" or "divergent". So you're not trying to
tighten your suspenders so tight that you jam your chin into
your crotch, so to speak... you're just trying to hold them in
place so that everything stays in proper geometric relationship
to everything else.
This is a case where enough is just right, but more is not always
better and not enough can be disastrous. And remember that
Bernard Pietenpol did not own a computer or a calculator and
that he died of natural causes after flying numerous
experimental aircraft of his own design, as a test pilot of
each of them. May we emulate him, and enjoy life as a result.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
Flying Squirrel N2069Z "Rocket"
Medford, OR
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Ok, so I cheated and am doing this backwards. |
From: | "Dale McCleskey" <dale.mccleskey(at)lifeway.com> |
Congratulations. You obviously couldn't do better than getting Dick's workmanship.
On route. I'm in Lebanon, TN (M-54) we have a grass strip, so come and see us.
Then on the trip to Brodhead I've used Ohio County (7K4) no grass, but it's a
good place to stop and friendly people, then due to various weather conditions
I've used Sullivan County (SIV) and Vermillion (DNV), Pontiac (PNT), and Dixon
Walgreen (C73), though my favorite of all it Dwight, Ill. (DTG). You get a grass
strip in a soybean field and to meet the elderly couple who run the tiny
airport. After they'd fueled my plane, on the way back from Brodhead, I found
they didn't take a credit card. They gave me a ticket and said mail them a check.
Such folks are what makes low and slow so extremely worthwhile because of
the people you meet along the way.
--------
Dale McCleskey
N7035N
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353627#353627
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: cable tension |
From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
All I know is "ping" is too tight.
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353634#353634
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: machined control horns? |
From: | "dgaldrich" <dgaldrich(at)embarqmail.com> |
Has anyone tried doing the control horns in sheet aluminum? I'm thinking .032
2024T3 bent like the steel ones but edge riveted. Might save a pound or two on
that long lever arm back to the tail for cg and would be easier to corrosion
treat.
I have a guess that they would be strong enough, though not as strong as the steel
version. The question is just how strong is strong enough. Since control
surface travel is limited by physical stops in most cases, the max load would
be aerodynamic. Any engineers out there have a clue on the aero load forces?
That sort of math makes my head hurt.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353640#353640
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Gboothe5" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
Subject: | Re: machined control horns? |
My first reaction was, "Why?" Then, I gave it some more
thought..........Why? You're driving Dan Helsper to drink!
Gary from Cool
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of dgaldrich
Sent: Friday, September 30, 2011 10:45 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: machined control horns?
Has anyone tried doing the control horns in sheet aluminum? I'm thinking
.032 2024T3 bent like the steel ones but edge riveted. Might save a pound
or two on that long lever arm back to the tail for cg and would be easier to
corrosion treat.
I have a guess that they would be strong enough, though not as strong as the
steel version. The question is just how strong is strong enough. Since
control surface travel is limited by physical stops in most cases, the max
load would be aerodynamic. Any engineers out there have a clue on the aero
load forces? That sort of math makes my head hurt.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353640#353640
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: "The Last Original" Fly's Again |
From: | "dwilson" <marwilson(at)charter.net> |
Do you remember what she looked like just a couple of months ago during Brodhead?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353681#353681
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dscn8084_204.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | JOSEPH SWITHIN <joeswithin(at)yahoo.com> |
Subject: | doing it backwards |
If you stop at Dwight, IL (it is on may way home), Pontiac, IL (about two miles
from my office) or even Morris, Il (not to far north of where I live) and I can
be of any service, let me know. If you need a place to overnight, I can accomodate
that also. Just contact me off line and we can make arrangements.
Joe Swithin
In the middle of harvest, but I still find time to read this groups activities
and dream.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Jeff Souders <piperj3cubflyer(at)gmail.com> |
Hello, I am looking at buying a 15 year old Piet N6EJ that was made with
Aerolite glue. Should I be concern with this glue?
Thanks
Jeff
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Greg Cardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net> |
Subject: | Re: Aerolite glue |
The ribs on NX18235 were assembled in 1997 with Aerolite adhesive. 260
flight hours are on the ribs and they haven't fallen apart yet...
Greg Cardinal
Minneapolis
----- Original Message -----
From: Jeff Souders
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, October 01, 2011 5:25 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Aerolite glue
Hello, I am looking at buying a 15 year old Piet N6EJ that was made
with Aerolite glue. Should I be concern with this glue?
Thanks
Jeff
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Aerolite glue |
From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
Where are you located Jeff? Just curious... wondering if N6EJ will be leaving
our area. :(
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353749#353749
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Miter Joints on ribs |
From: | "flea" <jimgriggs(at)yahoo.com> |
K5YAC wrote:
> Ohh, now look at that. Strange how we look at things differently. All of my
verticals were butted to the ribs while the diagonals were fitted in between
the verticals... opposite of yours. I guess there is no right or wrong way structurally,
but that just looks more difficult to me, although it is essentially
the same.
>
>
All of my verticals are butted up against the capstrips as well. I found it to
be much easier and faster that way. I have a baggy of gussets cut out and ready
to go, though I must be honest all of my gussets are the same size with the
exception of the nose. I can have a rib lad out and glued up in around 30 minutes
using my jig, a sharp mechanical pencil, and a bandsaw. All verticals are
square (as much as they can be) and all of the diagonals will have two angles
at each end marked out with the sharp pencil, then it's just a matter of a few
seconds in the saw for each piece.
Jim
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353757#353757
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Aerolite glue |
From: | piperj3cubflyer <piperj3cubflyer(at)gmail.com> |
I live north of Chickasha, Ok KCHK about 10 miles.
On Oct 1, 2011, at 11:03 PM, "K5YAC" wrote:
>
> Where are you located Jeff? Just curious... wondering if N6EJ will be leaving
our area. :(
>
> --------
> Mark Chouinard
> Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353749#353749
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | 3/16 inch bolts for Pietenpol |
From: | "Larry V" <larryvangerven(at)hotmail.com> |
Hi
In the Pietenpol plans it calls for 3/16 in bolts . I cannot seem to find these
bolts. Does anyone no where these can be purchased.
Thanks Larry
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353771#353771
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
Subject: | KTA Aluminum Control Horn |
I dug these pictures out of my picture/video archive of my building process
of NX992WD.- I had designed and fabricated a one piece aluminum control
horn a few years ago. I was not looking forward to the welding involved wit
h the steel fittings as shown on the plans, so I wondered about one piece a
luminum horns.- This prototype was made from 6061-T6. I beveled the edges
some for weight savings and aerodynamics. I guess one could go as far as d
rilling/cutting out lightning holes as well...
-
Anyhoo, I was reminded that a flat horn will not be as aero. as the steel o
nes made in a airfoil shape.- If I remember, the weight difference betwee
n this one and a fabricated steel one was minimal. (It must have been...oth
erwise I may have continued with making aluminum ones.)- Plus, I was not
entirely sure about vibration effects, loading, twist, etc. so I abandoned
the idea all together.
Michael Perez
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
Subject: | Re: 3/16 inch bolts for Pietenpol |
Larry, 3/16" bolts are-AN3 bolt size. (also known as #10.)- Any aircraf
t supply place will sell AN3 bolts in various grip lengths.
Michael Perez
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: 3/16 inch bolts for Pietenpol |
From: | "Larry V" <larryvangerven(at)hotmail.com> |
Michael
Thank you for your reply on the bolts
Larry V
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353776#353776
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
Subject: | Re: 3/16 inch bolts for Pietenpol |
You are welcome.
Michael Perez
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Chris" <catdesigns(at)att.net> |
Subject: | 3/16 inch bolts for Pietenpol |
Larry
Ron Wanttaja's Fly Baby website has a bunch of good references that you
should print out and hang in your shop.
http://www.wanttaja.com/shopsheets/index.html
The one that answers your question is the Bolt Basic sheet. But don't stop
here look at the rest of them and you will see a wealth of information
condensed onto one page.
Chris
Sacramento, Ca
Westcoastpiet.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry V
Sent: Sunday, October 02, 2011 7:00 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: 3/16 inch bolts for Pietenpol
-->
Hi
In the Pietenpol plans it calls for 3/16 in bolts . I cannot seem to find
these bolts. Does anyone no where these can be purchased.
Thanks Larry
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353771#353771
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Dick N" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
Subject: | Re: 3/16 inch bolts for Pietenpol |
Larry
Try Aircraft Spruce An -3 Bolts Call them at 877-477-7823 or Wicks Aircraft
Supply at 800-221-9425
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry V" <larryvangerven(at)hotmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 02, 2011 9:00 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: 3/16 inch bolts for Pietenpol
>
>
> Hi
> In the Pietenpol plans it calls for 3/16 in bolts . I cannot seem to find
> these bolts. Does anyone no where these can be purchased.
> Thanks Larry
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353771#353771
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: 3/16 inch bolts for Pietenpol |
From: | "Larry V" <larryvangerven(at)hotmail.com> |
Chris and Dick thank you for your reply
Larry
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353825#353825
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Aerolite glue |
I began construction of my Pietenpol during the winter of 1959 using
Aerolite almost exclusively. The only other glue I used was Weldwood Plastic
Resin on some wing ribs. This glue was a good product back then and, if it
is still available, may not be so today. I date back to the time when casein
glue was the approved glue for aircraft use, and just about anything used
since is superior to casein glue,.including Weldwood PR and Aerolite. I have
seen DH Tiger Moth wings that were more-or-less held together by the fabric
after the casein glue joints in the ribs had failed!
For various reasons I did not finish myPietenpol until 1970, and have been
flying it ever since. Initially it was covered with Grade A cotton fabric
and had a hand-rubbed butyrate dope finish. Since cotton has a limited life,
I recovered it in 1985 using polyester fabric and butyrate dope, and had a
chance to check the glue joints. There was no problem with the Weldwood PR
glue joints anywhere, but a few Aerolite joints at the wing trailing edge
had failed for some reason. Elsewhere they were sound. I re-glued the failed
joints using epoxy adhesive because I figured re-gluing them with Aerolite
would not be a good idea. (The trailing edge-to-rib gussets are too small,
in my opinion, and I followed the plans. If I were to do another one, I
would icrease their size by using a triangular shape and I would use T-88
everywhere.)
BTW, I used Yellow Cedar for the trailing edge because it has a high
resistance to rot. However, it doesn't glue too well!
My airplane has been hangared for perhaps 95% of its life and has a little
over 840 hours on it. Never damaged (Touch wood!) and after 26 years the
polyester fabric is stll good. I really would like to remove it and do a
thorough inspection of the structure, but that isn't feasible for lack of
workspace, etc. I do have lots of inspection openings, however, and haven't
been able to discover any structural problems in the areas that can be
inspected. In central Alberta, Canada our climate is generally quite dry and
that favours longevity of a wooden structure. Other climates may not be so
kind.
In general, if the workmanship on an airplane is good and it has always been
hangared, I wouldn't be too concerned about the use of Aerolite in its
construction, but I would definitely install lots of inspection openings if
they are not already there.
Graham Hansen (Pietenpol CF-AUN)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com> |
Subject: | my experiance with Aerolite glue |
I bought an airplane project 10 years ago, not a piet-(and I am still wor
king on it!), it was built using aerolite.- The fuselage is in great shap
e, the wings were a different story.- Like your exsaple of the bad wings
at sun and fun, I was able to pop gussets off the spar-compression strut jo
ints with 2 fingers.- Found at least a dozen like that.- I scrapped the
wings and built all new ones, eaiser and lighter than un-doing all the gus
sets etc, etc.- While building my new wings (T-88 this time), I think I f
igured out why the joints were bad on the originals.- When assembling the
ribs to the spars each rib has 4 gussets on top, bot of spars. The easiest
way to assemble was to 1st prep all gussets, ribs, spars, then apply the g
lue to all the glue joint areas, and have the gussets right next to the ass
embly with the nails already started.- Next pick up the corosponding guss
et and nail it on, .- If the builder did this with aerolight glue, and pu
t
the glue on the spars, ribs, and activator on the gusets and let them sit
close to the open glue joint for an extended amount of time, the fumes from
the activator can start the glue curing before the joint is presed togeath
er.- This I am told will "crust over" the glue, and a weak joint is proba
ble.-
-
As with anything, you must follow the manufactures instructions for any glu
e, or product you use.- Aerolite, when properly applied, is great stuff,
But for ease of use I will stay with T-88.
-
Shad
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "TriScout" <apfelcyber(at)yahoo.com> |
..well, I flew the GN-1 last month and happened to have a little camera in my pocket,
so I captured some crude video during my maiden flight in it. It really
isn't a "maiden" flight since it's been flying since 1980, but it is first hop
w/it's 4th A65...as well as my first tailwheel flight in awhile...so it felt
maiden enough to me. I tried to play w/editing software on my Vista..seems easy
enough...what a blast. I felt like 16 again on first solo. I have 2 flts in
it, then back on the road for a couple weeks. In HKG as I write this. My wife
put it on "you-chube"..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFxpVnC4VqQ
Larry
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353835#353835
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Another Video - Brodhead 2011 |
From: | "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com> |
Even though I was not able to be there this year, Brodhead 2011 looked like a good
time. I took some video and photo footage and played with it a little bit,
and put it to some appropriate music. It was fun to do, so I hope that you enjoy
seeing it.
I am looking forward to Brodhead 2012. Tools and I may be cooking up something
(figuratively, not literally) that we hope many of you be able to participate
in. Til then...
--------
Semper Fi,
Terry Hand
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353844#353844
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | johnwoods(at)westnet.com.au |
Subject: | Re: my experiance with Aerolite glue |
Shad wrote:
"If the builder did this with aerolight glue, and put the glue on the spars
,=C2- ibs, and activator on the gusets and let them sit close to the open
glue joint for an extended amount of time, the fumes from the activator ca
n start the glue curing before the joint is presed togeather.=C2- This I
am told will "crust over" the glue, and a weak joint is probable."
It is=C2-for this very reason that CASA Australia do not accept this type
of glue joint on aircraft.
CASA does not have any objection to "modern" adhesives, including Urea Form
aldehyde (Aerolite), Resorcinol Formaldehyde and=C2-Casien adhesives.
Casien is a milk based product which can be attacked by micro-organisms und
er the right humidity conditions over a period of time.
The "modern" Casien has a=C2-fungiside which prevents the deterioration b
y micro-organisms.
See attached AWB 02-11 for wood and adhesives.
Just for information.
JohnW
================
==
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Aerolite glue |
From: | "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca> |
Two points:
1) Rodney, when building a laminated spar or longeron, the grain directions of
the laminated strips should match. In the case of a spar, the resultant grain
should be horizontal, when the spar is standing upright. In other words, if you
look at the spar installed in the wing, the grain lines should look like a
very tall deck of cards (grain lines about 3/4" long). In the case of longerons,
since they are usually square, so the orientation isn't an issue. The grain
direction of the individual layers should stack on top of each other.
and
2) Very nice to see a post from Graham Hansen. As always, full of well thought
out, useful, practical advice, based on personal experience and logic. Thanks
for sharing, Graham.
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353869#353869
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
Cool pic Kevin.
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353911#353911
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Bob edson" <robertse(at)centurytel.net> |
I think you will be able to see our piet,we have the tail feathers
painted. Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Jim Boyer <boyerjrb(at)comcast.net> |
Hi Kevin,
Looks good but wouldn't it be neat if you could pose in period clothes.
Jim B.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Jim Boyer <boyerjrb(at)comcast.net> |
Bob very nice colors and glossy too! What paint are you using? Whole Piet should
be beautiful.
Jim B.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
Dang! I really like blue and yellow too! Although I've been forbidden to have
any thoughts of color scheme, in the back of my mind those two colors are one
of my favorite combinations. I saw a blue and yellow Culver Cadet on our field
last year that I really liked... dropped everything just to watch it taxi,
fuel and take back off.
Oh well, you weren't the first and I won't be the last if I choose that combo.
Looks really beautiful! Please tell us what you are using.
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353927#353927
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
Bill was there, you just didn't recognize him because he was in drag too. I on
the other hand was NOT there... just going on what I was told.
Yep, that is a much better (and Mueller approved) photo.
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353936#353936
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Jim Boyer <boyerjrb(at)comcast.net> |
shoot, there for a minute I thought we were going to see Shelley in a really pretty
dress.
Jim B.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Jim Boyer <boyerjrb(at)comcast.net> |
Much better photo Kevin; cool looking car too.
Jim B.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Jerry Dotson" <jdotson(at)centurylink.net> |
Large pictures are easy to view. Just right click on the photo then left click
view picture
Cool picture too. When I saw the first pic my thought was the price of pixels must
have gone sky high from the size of that one.
--------
Jerry Dotson
59 Daniel Johnson Rd
Baker, FL 32531
Started building NX510JD July, 2009
now covering
21" wheels
Lycoming O-235
Jay Anderson CloudCars prop
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353948#353948
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Piet2112" <curtdm(at)gmail.com> |
[quote="boyerjrb(at)comcast.net"]Hi Kevin,
Looks good but wouldn't it be neat if you could pose in period clothes.
Jim B.
> [b]
If Kevin were to pose, it should be in clothes, period.
Curt Merdan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353966#353966
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Fuselage Kit from Aircraft Spruce ... what's all the 1x1 |
for
From: | "PShipman" <perrytshipman(at)gmail.com> |
I know I am missing something very obvious ... but ...
Unwrapping and inventorying the fuselage kit from Aircraft Spruce reveals 16 pieces
of 1" x 1" x 25" ... AND ... 11 pieces of 1" x 1" x 37".
Plus there is all the normal wood to build the "improved" 1932 design ...
Are the extra pieces for building a stronger/heavier fuselage for a larger engine?
An inquiring (and confused) mind wants to know :P
--------
Perry Shipman
Lakeside, CA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353977#353977
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Fuselage Kit from Aircraft Spruce ... what's all the |
1x1 for
From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
Sounds like tail section parts. If AS&S hasn't changed the part list too much,
the attached document should be helpful. I've copied the following text from
a previous thread I posted a while back.
-----
I know this wasn't requested, but with several new interested parties on the boards,
I figured I'd offer a list that has been very helpful to me. This might
be published elsewhere, but it was forwarded to me by someone here (probably Markle)
and I reference it often when trying to decide which pieces to use for
certain assemblies.
The original list that I received was compiled by Bob McKinley. I think he must
have been one of the Ohio guys as there was a Buckeye Piet sketch in the margin,
but I'm not sure. Certainly someone here knows of him. The list I recieved
was a scanned image of an old document that was typed up on a typewriter, and
some of the notes were difficult to make out. If I had that file I would offer
it too, but I'm afraid I've deleted it, or at least misplaced it among all my
Pietenpol goodies.
Anyhow, I used Bob's list to inventory my wood package when it was delivered. It
was pretty close to right on... the spar thickness was different (3/4" instead
of 1"), and Aircraft Spruce offered a couple of additional parts in the tail
section (I've noted all of these on the new list), otherwise it is very handy
in helping to sort out all the parts one might need to assemble this airplane,
whether you choose to purchase a wood package or cut your own parts.
All of Bob's notes are included in the notes section, but I've added a few of my
own to this modern version too IN BOLD.
I hope this helps some of you as much as it has helped me.
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353979#353979
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/material_list_158.pdf
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Fuselage Kit from Aircraft Spruce ... what's all the |
1x1 for
From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
Oh, now I see FUSELAGE kit... I was thinking that you received the entire package.
I'm not sure what items are included in the wood package, but the list should
be helpful none the less.
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353980#353980
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Fuselage Kit from Aircraft Spruce ... what's all the |
1x1 for
From: | "PShipman" <perrytshipman(at)gmail.com> |
Mark ... thanks much for the list ... all of the fuselage items are there but in
addition there are the short 1 x 1 pieces that I mentioned ... far more than
called for ...
Pretty sure these are not for the tail as the tail kit has the longer pieces mentioned
in the list, not these short ones ...
If nothing else ... we have some really nice extra wood!
AN ADDITIONAL QUESTION :) ... the blueprints are not terrible clear on the wood/size
to use to frame up the seats (other than the white ash pieces) ... can you
give us an idea of what to use there?
Thanks
--------
Perry Shipman
Lakeside, CA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353981#353981
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Fuselage Kit from Aircraft Spruce ... what's all the |
1x1 for
From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
Can't help you there... I haven't built my seats yet and don't have my plans handy.
Perhaps someone else will help.
As for the plans not being terribly clear... it is surprising how much information
is there... you may have to look in more than one place. I'm not saying that
the dimension you are looking for IS there, but it wouldn't surprise me to
find that other measurements might be interpolated to arrive a the one you are
looking for.
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353982#353982
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | More Pietenpol Roots in Oklahoma |
From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
I received a phone call earlier this evening from a girl named Angie Hyatt. My
first thought was, "ok, what are you selling Angie?" After she introduced herself
she went on to tell me that she lives in Owasso (a few miles from me and
my project) and that someone had forwarded her a copy of my writing from the
BPA Newsletter. Ok, now I'm listening! She said, "the man in the photo standing
in front of the Scout is my Great Grandfather, Orrin Hoopman... do you know
who he is?" I said, "well yes, I'm working on an airplane that he drew the
plans for." She replied, "Oh? You are building a Pietenpol?" I explained that
I am, hence the reason that I was involved with the newsletter. She didn't
have a full copy of the newsletter, just the one page and she didn't seem to
be fully aware of what BPA is.
Anyhow, she went on to tell me that her Great Grandfather (Hoopman) used to fly
10718 to go visit his girlfriend. She said, "Most of my family is in Cherry
Grove, Minnesota... my parents moved to Oklahoma with the Army just before I was
born." Angie's mother, Cathy Ryan lives just a few miles away in Broken Arrow,
Oklahoma... the same town where 10718 now resides... they are going to go
see it tomorrow.
Angie asked if she and her family could stop by to look at my project sometime
since we are right down the road. Of course I obliged. She added that her Grandmother
(Orrin Hoopman's daughter), Bernie Finke (wife of John Finke) would
be here this winter for a visit and asked if she could bring her by to look as
well. I told her I would fire up the heater.
Angie went to Brodhead in 1999 with her family and she said they had a wonderful
time, but she wasn't aware of the huge following for the design. I told her
that there is still a great interest in building and flying this design, and
that there is a fairly large group of people carrying on daily discussions and
debates about the very plans her Great Grandfather drew up.
Anyhow... I'm certainly no historian on all things Pietenpol, so we exchanged our
information and agreed to get together this week to look things over. I did
mention Chet Peek's book, "The Pietenpol Story"... she said that she has a copy,
but has never read it. I said, "You should, your Great Grandfather and a
man named Don Finke (maybe John's Dad?) are mentioned quite a bit."
Very interesting and out of the blue phone call. This story is obviously still
developing, so I'll post an update at a later time.
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353984#353984
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Fuselage Kit from Aircraft Spruce ... what's all the |
1x1 fo
From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
Perry, I see you have met Ryan, our resident "short fuse". LOL! But he is right,
it is like a big puzzle. A LOT of things don't seem real evident at first
glance, or even second or third for that matter, but it's all there.
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353985#353985
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Fuselage Kit from Aircraft Spruce ... what's all the |
1x1 fo
From: | "PShipman" <perrytshipman(at)gmail.com> |
i must say that what is fun about this IS the big puzzle aspect of it! There was
a comment made that there was really a lot of buried information in the plans,
etc. Sure finding that to be true. Every time I read back over a sheet I
see something new. Also reading the notes from the 1932 articles have a lot
of insights. Must say that this project is like a great wife (I've been married
to a great one for forty years ) ... every day this is something new to discover!
--------
Perry Shipman
Lakeside, CA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353986#353986
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
Subject: | More Pietenpol Roots in Oklahoma |
Very Cool, Mark! It's nice to be able to keep the history alive, isn't it?
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of K5YAC
Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2011 1:07 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: More Pietenpol Roots in Oklahoma
I received a phone call earlier this evening from a girl named Angie Hyatt.
My first thought was, "ok, what are you selling Angie?" After she
introduced herself she went on to tell me that she lives in Owasso (a few
miles from me and my project) and that someone had forwarded her a copy of
my writing from the BPA Newsletter. Ok, now I'm listening! She said, "the
man in the photo standing in front of the Scout is my Great Grandfather,
Orrin Hoopman... do you know who he is?" I said, "well yes, I'm working on
an airplane that he drew the plans for." She replied, "Oh? You are
building a Pietenpol?" I explained that I am, hence the reason that I was
involved with the newsletter. She didn't have a full copy of the
newsletter, just the one page and she didn't seem to be fully aware of what
BPA is.
Anyhow, she went on to tell me that her Great Grandfather (Hoopman) used to
fly 10718 to go visit his girlfriend. She said, "Most of my family is in
Cherry Grove, Minnesota... my parents moved to Oklahoma with the Army just
before I was born." Angie's mother, Cathy Ryan lives just a few miles away
in Broken Arrow, Oklahoma... the same town where 10718 now resides... they
are going to go see it tomorrow.
Angie asked if she and her family could stop by to look at my project
sometime since we are right down the road. Of course I obliged. She added
that her Grandmother (Orrin Hoopman's daughter), Bernie Finke (wife of John
Finke) would be here this winter for a visit and asked if she could bring
her by to look as well. I told her I would fire up the heater.
Angie went to Brodhead in 1999 with her family and she said they had a
wonderful time, but she wasn't aware of the huge following for the design.
I told her that there is still a great interest in building and flying this
design, and that there is a fairly large group of people carrying on daily
discussions and debates about the very plans her Great Grandfather drew up.
Anyhow... I'm certainly no historian on all things Pietenpol, so we
exchanged our information and agreed to get together this week to look
things over. I did mention Chet Peek's book, "The Pietenpol Story"... she
said that she has a copy, but has never read it. I said, "You should, your
Great Grandfather and a man named Don Finke (maybe John's Dad?) are
mentioned quite a bit."
Very interesting and out of the blue phone call. This story is obviously
still developing, so I'll post an update at a later time.
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353984#353984
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Bob edson" <robertse(at)centurytel.net> |
In answer to what paint we are useing it is the stuart system. It as a
little pricey but it is water base with no odor and it is easy to work
with. It makes a good tough finish and is very elastic. I am enjoying
every minute of it. Have a great day, Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: More Pietenpol Roots in Oklahoma |
From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
Yes Jack, it is nice... and it makes the journey more interesting as well.
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353997#353997
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Fuselage Kit from Aircraft Spruce ... what's all the |
1x1 for
From: | "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca> |
Perry,
After reading your question I took a look at the Aircraft Spruce website to see
what exactly is included in the "Fuselage Kit", and all I could find was the
product number and a price. Same for the "Wing Kit". That seems odd for two items
totalling almost $1500. Funny thing is that the "Stab and Elevator Kit" and
the "Fin and Rudder Kit" each have a breakdown of the parts included in the
kits, whereas the larger kits have no breakdown. Until recently, Aircraft Spruce
offered only one wood kit for the Pietenpol, which was supposedly all of the
spruce needed to build the plane (minus the capstrips for the ribs, for some
reason). I believe that the wood kit was based on the sheet that Mark posted.
Not long ago, the individual kits were introduced, and the full kit was no longer
offered. On the Aircraft Spruce website there IS a disclaimer that says that
the kits are based on a list provided to them years ago, and may or may not
be correct, and that it is the buyer's responsibility to ensure that the materials
included in the kit are correct. That sounds like a good rule to follow
when buying ANYTHING, but I'm curious as to how one is to verify the sizes and
quantities if none are listed. In the case of the Plywood Kit, one really should
check carefully, since the "Plywood Kit" includes 10 sheets of plywood, and
there simply is not that much plywood required to build a Pietenpol (unless
you need to make everything THREE times instead of the normal two :) ).
So, to get back to your question... without knowing exactly what was included in
your "Fuselage Kit", it's hard to say what all the 1" x 1" would be for. I would
assume that Aircraft Spruce sent you a breakdown of all the items included
in your kit. If so, why don't you scan a copy (or take a photo) and post it
here so that we can see exactly what you got. If the "extra" wood really is extra,
the question is "Did you pay for the extra wood, or was it a bonus?". If
it is extra (as in "not required"), and you did pay for it, then why is it part
of the kit?
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353998#353998
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Fuselage Kit from Aircraft Spruce ... what's all the |
1x1 for
From: | "PShipman" <perrytshipman(at)gmail.com> |
Bill,
Thanks for the note back! I appreciate comments on the AS changes over the years.
Do note that the "complete kit" is still available in the catalog ... would have
been much more interesting if we'd seen it earlier in the process.
As far as the manifest ... it clearly lists 1 fuselage kit ... with absolutely
no breakdown of items ... this is probably why I've always ended up broke ...
never check those things.
Anyway ... life is a great puzzle and that is why it is so much fun!
Perry
--------
Perry Shipman
Lakeside, CA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=354001#354001
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "TOM STINEMETZE" <TOMS(at)mcpcity.com> |
Bob:
Question on the Stewart system of paints. I was under the impression that
the Stuart system was water based up to the point where color was added.
Then it became full hazmat suit and make up air required. If this
impression is wrong I would really like to know about it.
Thanks,
Tom Stinemetze
N328X
>>> "Bob edson" 10/4/2011 7:12 AM >>>
In answer to what paint we are useing it is the stuart system. It as a
little pricey but it is water base with no odor and it is easy to work
with. It makes a good tough finish and is very elastic. I am enjoying
every minute of it. Have a great day, Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Jim Boyer <boyerjrb(at)comcast.net> |
boy talk about a tough crowd!
Jim B.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca> |
Tom,
Check out Stewart's website for more info. Their coatings are water-borne, so there
are no hazardous solvents. I don't think there's any need for a haz-mat suit.
http://www.stewartsystems.aero/benefits.aspx
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=354025#354025
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | TheStewart System |
From: | helspersew(at)aol.com |
Hi Tom,
The Stewart System color coats are really neat. There is the color part, th
e hardener part, and added to that is water. At that point it starts the cu
ring process, and I found that the available spray time (if I remember righ
t) is about 45 minutes. A spray suit is recommended, because the overspray
is sticky. Outside air supply is not needed, only the same canister-type re
spirator that is used for spraying the primer coats. After spraying, everyt
hing is cleaned up with warm water. I found it to be very easy to work with
. I don't understand the chemistry, but the end result (I think this is the
claim of the Stewarts) is a true polyurethane. My finish was not as glossy
, because of my lowsy equipment and skill level.
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN
-----Original Message-----
From: TOM STINEMETZE <TOMS(at)mcpcity.com>
Sent: Tue, Oct 4, 2011 9:47 am
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: NX53WE
Bob:
Question on the Stewart system of paints. I was under the impression that
the Stuart system was water based up to the point where color was added. T
hen it became full hazmat suit and make up air required. If this impressio
n is wrong I would really like to know about it.
Thanks,
Tom Stinemetze
N328X
>>> "Bob edson" 10/4/2011 7:12 AM >>>
In answer to what paint we are useing it is the stuart system. It as a litt
le pricey but it is water base with no odor and it is easy to work with. It
makes a good tough finish and is very elastic. I am enjoying every minute
of it. Have a great day, Bob
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________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "TOM STINEMETZE" <TOMS(at)mcpcity.com> |
Subject: | Re: TheStewart System |
Dan:
Thanks for that reply. I have an e-mail in to the Stewart's folks with
the same question and I hope I get the same answer. I will post their
reply to the list when I receive it. Anyway, I got the information that
the color coat required a full respirator from the teacher at an EAA
Sportair Workshop on fabric covering. She is a professional aircraft
painter so I gave her input serious weight. However, I will also state
that the PolyFiber folks provided all of the materials used in the
workshop so there may have been some bias sneak in - not necessarily
intentional. Considering the potential health effects, I believe it is
good to have the right dope on this (so to speak.)
Tom Stinemetze
N328X
McPherson, Ks.
>>> 10/4/2011 11:32 AM >>>
Hi Tom,
The Stewart System color coats are really neat. There is the color part,
the hardener part, and added to that is water. At that point it starts the
curing process, and I found that the available spray time (if I remember
right) is about 45 minutes. A spray suit is recommended, because the
overspray is sticky. Outside air supply is not needed, only the same
canister-type respirator that is used for spraying the primer coats. After
spraying, everything is cleaned up with warm water. I found it to be very
easy to work with. I don't understand the chemistry, but the end result (I
think this is the claim of the Stewarts) is a true polyurethane. My finish
was not as glossy, because of my lowsy equipment and skill level.
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "TOM STINEMETZE" <TOMS(at)mcpcity.com> |
Subject: | Re: TheStewart System |
Jack:
I suspect you meant Poly Brush as Polytak is a very fast drying
substance used to glue the fabric down. We were only allowed to put
about 12" at a time down in class in order to get the fabric to soak it
up prior to getting too tacky.
Stinemetze
>>> "Jack" 10/4/2011 12:13 PM >>>
Shad,
Im close to covering and seriously considering Latex with (I believe
Polytak) to adhere the fabric.
Jack
DSM
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "TOM STINEMETZE" <TOMS(at)mcpcity.com> |
Subject: | Stewart's Systems requirements |
As promised, here is the reply from the Stewart's Systems representative.
Tom
When shooting our EkoPoly catalyzed top coat all you need is a charcoal
respirator. No need for fresh air.
Regards,
Jason Gerard
Stewart Systems
1-888-356-7659
www.stewartsystems.aero
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Doug Dever <helio400(at)yahoo.com> |
Subject: | Re: TheStewart System |
You are correct Dan.- It is a true urethane.- The one part stuff you bu
y for wood etc. is not.- I'm not sure of the catalyst.- In solvent base
d it's an isocyanate, which is a known carcinogen. (Reason for the suit as
it is absorbed through the skin and especially mucus membranes)- I am ver
y skeptical of water based paints.- They have not been able to come up wi
th a durable one in the automotive industry yet.- Time will tell.=0A-
=0ABTW- I thought your finish was much better than acceptable.- At least
in the pics:)=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: "helspersew@
aol.com" =0ATo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Tu
esday, October 4, 2011 12:32 PM=0ASubject: Pietenpol-List: TheStewart Syste
m=0A=0A=0AHi Tom,=0A=0AThe Stewart System color coats are really neat. Ther
e is the color part, the hardener part, and added to that is water. At that
point it starts the curing process, and I found that the available spray t
ime (if I remember right) is about 45 minutes. A spray suit is recommended,
because the overspray is sticky. Outside air supply is not needed, only th
e same canister-type respirator that is used for spraying the primer coats.
After spraying, everything is cleaned up with warm water. I found it to be
very easy to work with. I don't understand the chemistry, but the end resu
lt (I think this is the claim of the Stewarts) is a true polyurethane. My f
inish was not as glossy, because of my lowsy equipment and skill level. =0A
=0ADan Helsper=0APuryear, TN=0A=0A=0A-=0A-----Original Message-----=0AFro
m: TOM STINEMETZE =0ATo: pietenpol-list =0ASent: Tue, Oct 4, 2011 9:47 am=0ASubject: Re: Pietenpol-Lis
t: NX53WE=0A=0A=0ABob:=0A-=0AQuestion on the Stewart system of paints.-
I was under the impression that the Stuart system was water based up to th
e point where color was added.- Then it became full hazmat suit and make
up air required.- If this impression is wrong I would really like to know
about it.=0A-=0AThanks,=0ATom Stinemetze=0AN328X=0A=0A=0A>>> "Bob edson"
10/4/2011 7:12 AM >>>=0A=0AIn answer to what pai
nt we are useing it is the stuart system. It as a little pricey but it is w
ater base with no odor and it is easy to work with. It makes a good tough f
inish and is very elastic. I am enjoying every minute of it.--- Have
a great day,-- Bob=0A" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigat
or?Pietenpol-Listp://forums.matronics.comblank>http://www.matronics.c
=======================
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Doug Dever <helio400(at)yahoo.com> |
Subject: | Re: TheStewart System |
It's not the solvents in the solvent based urethanes that are nasty. (provi
ded you use an approved respirator with adiquate ventalation.)- It's the
isocyanate catalyst.- Nasty, nasty.=0A=0A=0A=0A__________________________
______=0AFrom: TOM STINEMETZE <TOMS(at)mcpcity.com>=0ATo: pietenpol-list@matro
nics.com=0ASent: Tuesday, October 4, 2011 2:11 PM=0ASubject: Re: Pietenpol-
List: TheStewart System=0A=0A=0ADan:=0A-=0AThanks for that reply.- I ha
ve an e-mail in to the Stewart's folks with the same question and I hope I
get the same answer.- I will post their reply to the list when I receive
it.- Anyway, I got the information that the color coat required a full re
spirator from the teacher at an EAA Sportair Workshop on fabric covering.
- She is a professional aircraft painter so I gave her input serious weig
ht.- However, I will also state that the PolyFiber folks provided all of
the materials used in the workshop so there may have been some bias sneak i
n - not necessarily intentional.- Considering the potential health effect
s, I believe it is good to have the right dope on this-(so to speak.)=0A
-=0ATom Stinemetze=0AN328X=0AMcPherson, Ks.=0A=0A=0A>>> 10/4/2011 11:32 AM >>>=0AHi Tom,=0A=0AThe Stewart System color coats ar
e really neat. There is the color part, the hardener part, and added to tha
t is water. At that point it starts the curing process, and I found that th
e available spray time (if I remember right) is about 45 minutes. A spray s
uit is recommended, because the overspray is sticky. Outside air supply is
not needed, only the same canister-type respirator that is used for sprayin
g the primer coats. After spraying, everything is cleaned up with warm wate
r. I found it to be very easy to work with. I don't understand the chemistr
y, but the end result (I think this is the claim of the Stewarts) is a true
polyurethane. My finish was not as glossy, because of my lowsy equipment a
=========
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: TheStewart System |
From: | "skellytown flyer" <skellflyer1(at)yahoo.com> |
I've seen some pretty finishes from that stuff but I'm still trying to figure out
where you buy that diluted water? :
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=354064#354064
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> |
Subject: | Re: TheStewart System |
I thought the same thing! C
----- Original Message -----
From: "skellytown flyer" <skellflyer1(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2011 6:51 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: TheStewart System
>
>
> I've seen some pretty finishes from that stuff but I'm still trying to
> figure out where you buy that diluted water? :
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=354064#354064
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Doug Dever <helio400(at)yahoo.com> |
Subject: | Re: TheStewart System |
I think he meant distilled:)=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0A
From: skellytown flyer <skellflyer1(at)yahoo.com>=0ATo: pietenpol-list@matroni
cs.com=0ASent: Tuesday, October 4, 2011 6:51 PM=0ASubject: Pietenpol-List:
n flyer" =0A=0AI've seen some pretty finishes from t
hat stuff but I'm still trying to figure out where you buy that diluted wat
er? :=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matroni
-========================
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Clif Dawson" <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca> |
Subject: | Re: TheStewart System |
I didn't know they made surgical gloves that big!
Clif
Shad,
I'm close to covering and seriously considering Latex
Jack
DSM
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Jack" <jack(at)textors.com> |
Subject: | Re: TheStewart System |
Tom,
I have not researched well yet, you could be correct. So many options for
consideration.
Jack
DSM
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of TOM
STINEMETZE
Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2011 1:16 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: TheStewart System
Jack:
I suspect you meant Poly Brush as Polytak is a very fast drying substance
used to glue the fabric down. We were only allowed to put about 12" at a
time down in class in order to get the fabric to soak it up prior to getting
too tacky.
Stinemetze
>>> "Jack" 10/4/2011 12:13 PM >>>
Shad,
I'm close to covering and seriously considering Latex with (I believe
Polytak) to adhere the fabric.
Jack
DSM
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "TOM STINEMETZE" <TOMS(at)mcpcity.com> |
Subject: | Re: TheStewart System |
Jack:
No, now that I read your post with a slightly more alert mind I see
that you meant: Stick the fabric down with Polytak and then paint with
latex. That's a good option and the correct choice of Polyfiber
product. Since you are going to use latex anyway why not go with the
Stewart's sticky stuff instead since it is waterborn and does not use
that nasty MEK as a solvent?
Stinemetze
>>> "Jack" 10/5/2011 3:42 AM >>>
Tom,
I have not researched well yet, you could be correct. So many options
for consideration.
Jack
DSM
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of TOM
STINEMETZE
Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2011 1:16 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: TheStewart System
Jack:
I suspect you meant Poly Brush as Polytak is a very fast drying
substance used to glue the fabric down. We were only allowed to put
about 12" at a time down in class in order to get the fabric to soak it
up prior to getting too tacky.
Stinemetze
>>> "Jack" 10/4/2011 12:13 PM >>>
Shad,
Im close to covering and seriously considering Latex with (I believe
Polytak) to adhere the fabric.
Jack
DSM
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Barry Davis" <bed(at)mindspring.com> |
Painted the 6 Big Piets with the Stewart System. IMOP, it is regular poly
paint. It has the paint, hardener and thinner. The thinner is water and
evaporates away leaving a very tough 2 part paint. I painted about 4 nights
per week for 6 months getting all 6 planes painted. Trying to get 5 of the 6
ready for Brodhead and Osh. we did not have the luxury of waiting for a
perfect day to paint. I painted anyway, no matter what. You could only paint
4 coats at a time before drying, so it took 4 sesseions (afternoons) for
each wing, fuselage, tail feathers, metal, struts, etc, etc, etc, etc. The
temp and humidity varied from 20 degrees to 90 degrees in that time frame
and humidity was from 100% to about 50%. On the cold days, we ran heat for
about 45 min and heated the booth to over 100 degrees to try to heat the
wing up. Still if the wing was too cold, the water would condense and run
off the wing in puddles.
Bottom line is this...The covering system is great and I will never use a
MEK based system again. The waterborne paint is great if you have perfect
conditions, but after the auto industry gets the paint perfected for
millions of cars, we will benefit with airplane painting. By painting just
one plane, maybe you will have several months to wait around for a couple
of perfect days. If you weigh the paint as you mix and follow the
instructions to the letter, you will have the toughest paint I have ever
seen.
Be sure to wear a good charcoal filter mask and change the pre-filter every
4 days of painting. Throw the mask away after a couple of months (or sooner
if you had a bad cold) and buy a new one. Mold and gunk grow on the inside
where you breathe. These are available thru any auto paint store for around
$20. Can't be too safe as polyurethane paint will kill you.
Barry
NX973BP
ps: waterborne not waterbased
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of TOM
STINEMETZE
Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2011 10:44 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: NX53WE
Bob:
Question on the Stewart system of paints. I was under the impression that
the Stuart system was water based up to the point where color was added.
Then it became full hazmat suit and make up air required. If this
impression is wrong I would really like to know about it.
Thanks,
Tom Stinemetze
N328X
>>> "Bob edson" 10/4/2011 7:12 AM >>>
In answer to what paint we are useing it is the stuart system. It as a
little pricey but it is water base with no odor and it is easy to work with.
It makes a good tough finish and is very elastic. I am enjoying every minute
of it. Have a great day, Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Jack" <jack(at)textors.com> |
Subject: | Re: TheStewart System |
That sounds like a good option. Has anyone out there tried it over spar
varnish?
Jack
DSM
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of TOM
STINEMETZE
Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2011 8:00 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: TheStewart System
Jack:
No, now that I read your post with a slightly more alert mind I see that you
meant: Stick the fabric down with Polytak and then paint with latex.
That's a good option and the correct choice of Polyfiber product. Since you
are going to use latex anyway why not go with the Stewart's sticky stuff
instead since it is waterborn and does not use that nasty MEK as a solvent?
Stinemetze
>>> "Jack" 10/5/2011 3:42 AM >>>
Tom,
I have not researched well yet, you could be correct. So many options for
consideration.
Jack
DSM
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of TOM
STINEMETZE
Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2011 1:16 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: TheStewart System
Jack:
I suspect you meant Poly Brush as Polytak is a very fast drying substance
used to glue the fabric down. We were only allowed to put about 12" at a
time down in class in order to get the fabric to soak it up prior to getting
too tacky.
Stinemetze
>>> "Jack" 10/4/2011 12:13 PM >>>
Shad,
I'm close to covering and seriously considering Latex with (I believe
Polytak) to adhere the fabric.
Jack
DSM
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: rib wedges and one more question |
From: | "namrednos" <namrednos(at)yahoo.com> |
I am going to make my spars out of 1" x 4-3/4" and then router out to make it lighter.
I have heard of the spars being made of 3/4" by 4-3/4" and then no router.
The cost for the fir is about the same but I think the 1" spar will be a
little stronger.
Scott
--------
Scott
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=354090#354090
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Jim Boyer <boyerjrb(at)comcast.net> |
Subject: | Re: TheStewart System |
He means distilled water and you can get it in gallon containers from your local
Safeway/Raleys, etc. grocery store.
Jim B.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Dan Yocum <yocum137(at)gmail.com> |
Hi All,
It's been beautiful fall weather around here the past couple of weeks so
I've been taking every opportunity to head off into the wild blue yonder
with N8031 to try to get my flying fix before the snow starts coming down.
The last couple of times I've been up, I've been seeing just how slow I
can run the engine and maintain altitude. I've been able to keep her
flying at about 50mph at 1325RPM or so. What a nice ride. The wind
isn't too bad and it almost makes me want to take out the earplugs.
I'm saving gas, decreasing engine wear, and still enjoying the ride as
much as if I were "zooming" along at 75mph.
My question is this - is such a low RPM bad for the engine? Will it
foul the plugs or anything else if I don't run it hotter?
Thanks,
Dan
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com> |
For the flying you're doing, no. If you are worried about loading up the
plugs....you are at full throttle on takeoff, and probably higher throttle
settings at some point during your flights, no worries there. Otherwise, as
long as she has oil pressure, enjoy!
Ryan
On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 2:20 PM, Dan Yocum wrote:
>
> Hi All,
>
> It's been beautiful fall weather around here the past couple of weeks so
> I've been taking every opportunity to head off into the wild blue yonder
> with N8031 to try to get my flying fix before the snow starts coming down.
>
> The last couple of times I've been up, I've been seeing just how slow I can
> run the engine and maintain altitude. I've been able to keep her flying at
> about 50mph at 1325RPM or so. What a nice ride. The wind isn't too bad and
> it almost makes me want to take out the earplugs.
>
> I'm saving gas, decreasing engine wear, and still enjoying the ride as much
> as if I were "zooming" along at 75mph.
>
> My question is this - is such a low RPM bad for the engine? Will it foul
> the plugs or anything else if I don't run it hotter?
>
> Thanks,
> Dan
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Jerry Dotson" <jdotson(at)centurylink.net> |
Dan i don't see any way to damage the engine with a fixed pitch prop you can't
lug it. It might oil foul plugs if the rings and valve guides are not in good
shape. At that low a power setting there is a lot of vacuum on the cylinder side
to suck oil past the clearances. My trusty Luscombe with an A-65 would foul
plugs when I played around like that so I would go to full power for a minute
or so and that cured the plug fouling.
--------
Jerry Dotson
59 Daniel Johnson Rd
Baker, FL 32531
Started building NX510JD July, 2009
now covering
21" wheels
Lycoming O-235
Jay Anderson CloudCars prop
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=354103#354103
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Jeff Wilson <jlwilsonnn(at)yahoo.com> |
Subject: | Re: TheStewart System |
One of the best things about the Stewart
System is that the fabric adhesive can be used over
anything.
Sent from my iPhone
On Oct 5, 2011, at 12:13 PM, "Jack" wrote:
> That sounds like a good option. Has anyone out there tried it over spar v
arnish?
>
> Jack
>
> DSM
>
>
>
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-li
st-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of TOM STINEMETZE
> Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2011 8:00 AM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: TheStewart System
>
>
> Jack:
>
> No, now that I read your post with a slightly more alert mind I see that y
ou meant: Stick the fabric down with Polytak and then paint with latex. Th
at's a good option and the correct choice of Polyfiber product. Since you a
re going to use latex anyway why not go with the Stewart's sticky stuff inst
ead since it is waterborn and does not use that nasty MEK as a solvent?
>
> Stinemetze
>
>
> >>> "Jack" 10/5/2011 3:42 AM >>>
> Tom,
>
> I have not researched well yet, you could be correct. So many options for
consideration.
>
> Jack
>
> DSM
>
>
>
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-li
st-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of TOM STINEMETZE
> Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2011 1:16 PM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: TheStewart System
>
>
> Jack:
>
> I suspect you meant Poly Brush as Polytak is a very fast drying substance u
sed to glue the fabric down. We were only allowed to put about 12" at a tim
e down in class in order to get the fabric to soak it up prior to getting to
o tacky.
>
> Stinemetze
>
>
> >>> "Jack" 10/4/2011 12:13 PM >>>
> Shad,
>
> I=99m close to covering and seriously considering Latex with (I beli
eve Polytak) to adhere the fabric.
>
> Jack
>
> DSM
>
>
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> http://forums.matronics.com
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Marvin Haught <handainc(at)madisoncounty.net> |
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: New member
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2011 12:47:34 -0500
From: Marvin Haught <handainc(at)madisoncounty.net>
Hello Folks -
I'm a new member on the group - invited by the Edson's from Branson,
MO. I am a Stewart Systems Distributor, located in Huntsville, AR. I
don't plan on using the group to sell product - just answer questions if
asked and clarify techniques for covering and painted if needed. I've
been a Pietenpol fan most of my life, and one day, before I'm too danged
old to fly any more, would love to either buy a project or build. But,
like a lot of other habitual builders of stuff, if I could quit work
right now, it is doubtful I would live long enough to complete the
projects I've got stacked up now!
Anyway, my company name is Aircraft Fabric& Finishes, LLC, P.O. Box
419, 1227 Airport Road, Huntsville, AR 72740 - Cell 479-586-4241 in
case anyone wants to contact me offline. The company email is
aircraftfinishes(at)gmail.com. I will be glad to answer any questions
anyone might have, on line or off line. I also do sheet metal work,
specializing in compound shapes. As to fabric work, I will contract to
come to your place for a 3 day work session to teach the Stewart System
to you right on your aircraft parts. Contact me offline for costs.
M. Haught
aircraftfinishes(at)gmail.com
-- H.Marvin Haught Jr. Haught& Associates, Inc Huntsville, AR 72740
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Ben Charvet <bencharvet(at)gmail.com> |
Subject: | Re: TheStewart System |
Assuming you are talking about Ecobond, yes I used it over spar
varnish. Poly-tak probably would have been a problem.
Ben
On 10/5/2011 1:13 PM, Jack wrote:
>
> That sounds like a good option. Has anyone out there tried it over
> spar varnish?
>
> Jack
>
> DSM
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:*owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *TOM
> STINEMETZE
> *Sent:* Wednesday, October 05, 2011 8:00 AM
> *To:* pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: TheStewart System
>
> **Jack:**
>
> **No, now that I read your post with a slightly more alert mind I see
> that you meant: Stick the fabric down with Polytak and then paint
> with latex. That's a good option and the correct choice of Polyfiber
> product. Since you are going to use latex anyway why not go with the
> Stewart's sticky stuff instead since it is waterborn and does not use
> that nasty MEK as a solvent?**
>
> **Stinemetze**
>
>
> >>> "Jack" 10/5/2011 3:42 AM >>>
>
> Tom,
>
> I have not researched well yet, you could be correct. So many options
> for consideration.
>
> Jack
>
> DSM
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:*owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *TOM
> STINEMETZE
> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 04, 2011 1:16 PM
> *To:* pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: TheStewart System
>
> **Jack:**
>
> **I suspect you meant Poly Brush as Polytak is a very fast drying
> substance used to glue the fabric down. We were only allowed to put
> about 12" at a time down in class in order to get the fabric to soak
> it up prior to getting too tacky.**
>
> **Stinemetze**
>
>
> >>> "Jack" 10/4/2011 12:13 PM >>>
>
> Shad,
>
> I'm close to covering and seriously considering Latex with (I believe
> Polytak) to adhere the fabric.
>
> Jack
>
> DSM
>
> * *
> * *
> * *
> **
> **
> **
> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List*
> **
> **
> *http://forums.matronics.com*
> **
> **
> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
> * *
> *
>
>
> *
--
Ben Charvet, PharmD
Staff Pharmacist
Parrish Medical center
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: rib wedges and one more question |
From: | "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca> |
This has been discussed several times in the past. If you search the archives you
will easily find references.
In any case, the short answer is, yes, the rib design doesn't really allow enough
room to fit the full 4 3/4" rear spar. The best approach is to either bevel
the top edge of the rear spar to fit the rib, or to reduce the overall height
of the rear spar to fit with a square cut on the top - your choice. As an example,
if the height of the rear spar was reduced from 4 3/4" down to 4 5/8",
the resulting spar would still retain 92 percent of the bending strength of the
original spar. The spar with the beveled top edge will retain slightly more
strength than the square cut spar, but will be more difficult to cut. The rear
spars carry less of the loading than the front spars anyway, so the slight reduction
will not be a problem.
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=354116#354116
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Fwd: New member |
From: | "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca> |
good to know.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=354117#354117
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Dan Yocum <yocum137(at)gmail.com> |
Alright! On those days when I've got no particular place to go, 50-55mph is a
real nice speed to get there.
Thanks!
Dan
--
Dan Yocum
yocum137(at)gmail.com
"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
On Oct 5, 2011, at 2:39 PM, "Jerry Dotson" wrote:
>
> Dan i don't see any way to damage the engine with a fixed pitch prop you can't
lug it. It might oil foul plugs if the rings and valve guides are not in good
shape. At that low a power setting there is a lot of vacuum on the cylinder
side to suck oil past the clearances. My trusty Luscombe with an A-65 would foul
plugs when I played around like that so I would go to full power for a minute
or so and that cured the plug fouling.
>
> --------
> Jerry Dotson
> 59 Daniel Johnson Rd
> Baker, FL 32531
>
> Started building NX510JD July, 2009
> now covering
> 21" wheels
> Lycoming O-235
> Jay Anderson CloudCars prop
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=354103#354103
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | airlion <airlion(at)bellsouth.net> |
Subject: | Re: TheStewart System |
Hi all, I am building my ribs as I speak and I did not put a wedge in while
=0Abuilding. After ribs were complete I then put wedges in to to measure 4
an 3/4 =0Afrom the bottom capstrip.=0A=0ARibs are complete and now I mate
them to the spars. Gardiner=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom
: Jack =0ATo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Wed, O
ctober 5, 2011 1:13:14 PM=0ASubject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: TheStewart Sys
tem=0A=0A =0AThat sounds like a good option. Has anyone out there tried i
t over spar =0Avarnish?=0AJack=0ADSM=0A =0A=0A_____________________________
___=0A =0AFrom:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com =0A[mailto:owner-p
ietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of TOM STINEMETZE=0ASent: Wed
nesday, October 05, 2011 8:00 AM=0ATo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com=0ASubje
ct: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: TheStewart System=0A =0AJack:=0A =0ANo, now tha
t I read your post with a slightly more alert mind I see that you =0Ameant:
Stick the fabric down with Polytak and then paint with latex. That ' s
=0Aa good option and the correct choice of Polyfiber product. Since you ar
e going =0Ato use latex anyway why not go with the Stewart ' s sticky stuff
instead since =0Ait is waterborn and does not use that nasty MEK as a solv
ent?=0A =0AStinemetze=0A=0A=0A>>> "Jack" < jack(at)textors.com > 10/5/2011 3:4
2 AM >>>=0ATom,=0AI have not researched well yet, you could be correct. So
many options for =0Aconsideration.=0AJack=0ADSM=0A =0A=0A_________________
_______________=0A =0AFrom:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com =0A[ma
ilto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of TOM STINEMETZE
=0ASent: Tuesday, October 04, 2011 1:16 PM=0ATo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.c
om=0ASubject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: TheStewart System=0A =0AJack:=0A =0AI
suspect you meant Poly Brush as Polytak is a very fast drying substance us
ed =0Ato glue the fabric down. We were only allowed to put about 12" at a
time down =0Ain class in order to get the fabric to soak it up prior to get
ting too tacky.=0A =0AStinemetze=0A=0A=0A>>> "Jack" < jack(at)textors.com > 10
/4/2011 12:13 PM >>>=0AShad,=0AI=99m close to covering and seriously
considering Latex with (I believe Polytak) =0Ato adhere the fabric.=0AJack
=0ADSM=0A =0A =0A =0Ahttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com=0Ahttp://www.matronics.com/contribution=0A
================ =0A
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
Subject: | Re: TheStewart System |
9 of your ribs have wedges, Gardiner.
Jack Phillips
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of airlion
Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2011 7:40 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: TheStewart System
Hi all, I am building my ribs as I speak and I did not put a wedge in while
building. After ribs were complete I then put wedges in to to measure 4 an
3/4 from the bottom capstrip.
Ribs are complete and now I mate them to the spars. Gardiner
_____
From: Jack <jack(at)textors.com>
Sent: Wed, October 5, 2011 1:13:14 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: TheStewart System
That sounds like a good option. Has anyone out there tried it over spar
varnish?
Jack
DSM
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of TOM
STINEMETZE
Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2011 8:00 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: TheStewart System
Jack:
No, now that I read your post with a slightly more alert mind I see that you
meant: Stick the fabric down with Polytak and then paint with latex. That
' s a good option and the correct choice of Polyfiber product. Since you
are going to use latex anyway why not go with the Stewart ' s sticky stuff
instead since it is waterborn and does not use that nasty MEK as a solvent?
Stinemetze
>>> "Jack" < jack(at)textors.com > 10/5/2011 3:42 AM >>>
Tom,
I have not researched well yet, you could be correct. So many options for
consideration.
Jack
DSM
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of TOM
STINEMETZE
Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2011 1:16 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: TheStewart System
Jack:
I suspect you meant Poly Brush as Polytak is a very fast drying substance
used to glue the fabric down. We were only allowed to put about 12" at a
time down in class in order to get the fabric to soak it up prior to getting
too tacky.
Stinemetze
>>> "Jack" < jack(at)textors.com > 10/4/2011 12:13 PM >>>
Shad,
I'm close to covering and seriously considering Latex with (I believe
Polytak) to adhere the fabric.
Jack
DSM
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
http://www.matro===================
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | airlion <airlion(at)bellsouth.net> |
Subject: | Re: TheStewart System |
They all have wedges now. I think it is easier to fill it in after the fact
than =0Ato fill in while gluing the whowe thing=0A=0A=0A__________________
______________=0AFrom: Jack Phillips <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>=0ATo: pietenp
ol-list(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Wed, October 5, 2011 8:51:18 PM=0ASubject: RE
: Pietenpol-List: Re: TheStewart System=0A=0A =0A9 of your ribs have wedges
, Gardiner.=0A =0AJack Phillips=0A =0A =0A=0A______________________________
__=0A =0AFrom:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com =0A[mailto:owner-pi
etenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of airlion=0ASent: Wednesday,
October 05, 2011 7:40 PM=0ATo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com=0ASubject: Re:
Pietenpol-List: Re: TheStewart System=0A =0AHi all, I am building my ribs a
s I speak and I did not put a wedge in while =0Abuilding. After ribs were c
omplete I then put wedges in to to measure 4 an 3/4 =0Afrom the bottom caps
trip.=0ARibs are complete and now I mate them to the spars. Gardiner=0A=0A_
_______________________________=0A =0AFrom:Jack =0ATo: pi
etenpol-list(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Wed, October 5, 2011 1:13:14 PM=0ASubjec
t: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: TheStewart System=0AThat sounds like a good opti
on. Has anyone out there tried it over spar =0Avarnish?=0AJack=0ADSM=0A
=0A=0A________________________________=0A =0AFrom:owner-pietenpol-list-serv
er(at)matronics.com =0A[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On B
ehalf Of TOM STINEMETZE=0ASent: Wednesday, October 05, 2011 8:00 AM=0ATo: p
ietenpol-list(at)matronics.com=0ASubject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: TheStewart S
ystem=0A =0AJack:=0A =0ANo, now that I read your post with a slightly more
alert mind I see that you =0Ameant: Stick the fabric down with Polytak and
then paint with latex. That ' s =0Aa good option and the correct choice o
f Polyfiber product. Since you are going =0Ato use latex anyway why not go
with the Stewart ' s sticky stuff instead since =0Ait is waterborn and doe
s not use that nasty MEK as a solvent?=0A =0AStinemetze=0A=0A=0A>>> "Jack"
< jack(at)textors.com > 10/5/2011 3:42 AM >>>=0ATom,=0AI have not researched w
ell yet, you could be correct. So many options for =0Aconsideration.=0AJac
k=0ADSM=0A =0A=0A________________________________=0A =0AFrom:owner-pietenpo
l-list-server(at)matronics.com =0A[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronic
s.com] On Behalf Of TOM STINEMETZE=0ASent: Tuesday, October 04, 2011 1:16 P
M=0ATo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com=0ASubject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: The
Stewart System=0A =0AJack:=0A =0AI suspect you meant Poly Brush as Polytak
is a very fast drying substance used =0Ato glue the fabric down. We were o
nly allowed to put about 12" at a time down =0Ain class in order to get the
fabric to soak it up prior to getting too tacky.=0A =0AStinemetze=0A=0A=0A
>>> "Jack" < jack(at)textors.com > 10/4/2011 12:13 PM >>>=0AShad,=0AI=99
m close to covering and seriously considering Latex with (I believe Polytak
) =0Ato adhere the fabric.=0AJack=0ADSM=0A =0A =0A =0Ahttp://www.matroni
cs.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com=0Ahttp://www.
matronics.com/contribution=0A =0Ahttp://www.matro========
=============0A =0A =0A =0Ahttp://www.matronics.
com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com=0Ahttp://www.mat
=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: TheStewart System |
From: | "coxwelljon" <coxwelljon(at)frontiernet.net> |
the ecobond is great, and doesn't stink. Works great with Latex too!
I am planning on using 3M Fastbond 30-NF water based contact cement and Latex paint. I have researched this some and find that Fastbond may be the same product as the Ekobond. I cannot guarantee that but I have a friend that used the stewart system and we are going to do some experimentation with some left over Ekobond and Fastbond. Fastbond is considerably cheaper but hard to find in small quantities. I got mine through Granger (http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/3M-Contact-Adhesive-3XH48) at about $40 per quart. You can get it for around $50 per gal in 5 gal quantities. It comes in green and neutral just like the Stewart System.
I plan to use a high grade of white latex for an undercoat as it has the highest
percentage of titanium dioxide which is a refractory and reflects ultra violet.
(Titanium dioxide is used to get very bright whites and is used in sun screen
for UV protection) and then a color coat over that.
My friend was quite happy with the Stewart System but found it is very susceptible
to humidity at lower temperatures. He got a blush that actually changed the
color and had to redo a wing. He is using a maroon base with cream trim He
was doing it in the basement of a solar home which only had wood heat. I think
the lower temperature meant a higher relative humidity. I know some epoxy formulations
will blush at high humidity.
--------
Jon Coxwell
GN-1 Builder
Recycle and preserve the planet
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=354156#354156
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | johnwoods(at)westnet.com.au |
Subject: | Re: TheStewart System |
Jon Wrote:
I am planning on using 3M Fastbond 30-NF water based contact cement and Latex paint.
Jon,
I was looking at the same product.
3M Fastbond is available in Australia but the Stewart ekobond doesn't appear to
be.
Looking at the MSDS for both products, the ingredients are the same.
See link for Ekobond MSDS:
http://www.docstoc.com/docs/70168988/Stewart-Systems-EkoBond-MSDS
And attached PDF for Fastbond MSDS.
I'm also considering using Latex as final coat. I like the semi-closs finish which
I think is in character with the Aircamper.
Still a long way to go before covering but I have a lot of time to do research
right now as I'm miles away from my project.
Have been for the last two years and will be for at least another two months.
Sure am looking forward to getting back to building again.
JohnW,
Perth, Australia
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Jim Boyer <boyerjrb(at)comcast.net> |
Hi Dan,
We had a customer ruin the engine in one of our rental Cessna 182 from flying too
slow. The rear cylinders were not getting enough cooling air due to higher
angle of attack at such low airspeed.
Jim B.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Dan Yocum <yocum(at)fnal.gov> |
Ah, good point. But, the 182 has a big 6-cyl O-470 engine and mine is
only an A-65. Still, that's something to consider, but at lower RPMs
less heat is generated, too.
On 10/06/2011 10:53 AM, Jim Boyer wrote:
>
> Hi Dan,
>
> We had a customer ruin the engine in one of our rental Cessna 182 from
> flying too slow. The rear cylinders were not getting enough cooling air
> due to higher angle of attack at such low airspeed.
>
> Jim B.
>
> *
>
>
> *
--
Dan Yocum
Fermilab 630.840.6509
yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: TheStewart System |
From: | "coxwelljon" <coxwelljon(at)frontiernet.net> |
John Woods wrote:
> Jon Wrote:
> I am planning on using 3M Fastbond 30-NF water based contact cement and Latex
paint.
>
> Jon,
>
> I was looking at the same product.
> 3M Fastbond is available in Australia but the Stewart ekobond doesn't appear
to be.
> Looking at the MSDS for both products, the ingredients are the same.
>
> See link for Ekobond MSDS:
> http://www.docstoc.com/docs/70168988/Stewart-Systems-EkoBond-MSDS
>
> And attached PDF for Fastbond MSDS.
>
> I'm also considering using Latex as final coat. I like the semi-closs finish
which I think is in character with the Aircamper.
>
> Still a long way to go before covering but I have a lot of time to do research
right now as I'm miles away from my project.
> Have been for the last two years and will be for at least another two months.
> Sure am looking forward to getting back to building again.
>
> JohnW,
> Perth, Australia
John W,
Thanks for sharing that. They are not identical but oh so close.
Jon
--------
Jon Coxwell
GN-1 Builder
Recycle and preserve the planet
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=354245#354245
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Kringle" <Mrkringles(at)msn.com> |
After three evening classes at the local community college and 9 hours of practice
tig welding, this is my best. I asked the instructor if he would climb into
my aircraft for a ride if he saw these welds and he assured me he would. He
tig welds all day for a living and said he would be happy to to do my welding
for me if I wasn't comfortable with it.
--------
John
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=354258#354258
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/tig_weld_982.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Tig Welding 101 |
From: | "Jerry Dotson" <jdotson(at)centurylink.net> |
I would ride with you. Good looking weld
--------
Jerry Dotson
59 Daniel Johnson Rd
Baker, FL 32531
Started building NX510JD July, 2009
now covering
21" wheels
Lycoming O-235
Jay Anderson CloudCars prop
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=354259#354259
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
Subject: | Re: Tig Welding 101 |
TIG welding is great! Good for you to take the time to learn how to do it properly.
Looks great.
Michael Perez
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Tig Welding 101 |
From: | "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com> |
To my untrained eye the weld looks really nice. I just wish I had a community college
in my town that taught a night course on welding!
Very nice.
--------
Semper Fi,
Terry Hand
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=354263#354263
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Tig Welding 101 |
From: | "Kringle" <Mrkringles(at)msn.com> |
I'm also fortunate to only live 20 minutes from the Hobart Institute of Welding
which offers world class instruction. However, it is too expensive for a hobbyist
like me to attend.
--------
John
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=354266#354266
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Tig Welding 101 |
From: | Dave Nielsen <sentuchows(at)aol.com> |
Wow, That's better then what I can do.
"Bat Cave" Dave
-----Original Message-----
From: Kringle <Mrkringles(at)msn.com>
Sent: Fri, Oct 7, 2011 9:20 am
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Tig Welding 101
I'm also fortunate to only live 20 minutes from the Hobart Institute of Wel
ding
hich offers world class instruction. However, it is too expensive for a
obbyist like me to attend.
--------
ohn
September 18, 2011 - October 07, 2011
Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-kt