Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-kw
November 17, 2011 - December 13, 2011
out the gear on the starter (and I did not buy the starter from WW).- At
CC#21 WW took the time to personally change the gear on my starter,-and h
e showed a group of builders-one-on-one-how to do it.
-
Safety Shaft and Hybryd studs.- Showed up in-2-3 weeks.
-
Modified Oil pickup / oil pan install kit:- Showed up within 2 weeks.
-
Gold Prop hub, Gold Oil Pan and Gold Oil Filter Housing were all ordered wi
thin 30 days of CC#21 and were ready first thing Friday mornging during CC#
21.- If I wanted them shipped he would have done so - but why?- I cant
put the oil pan on-until I have an engine stand and that wasnt happening
until CC#21
-
BTW: When an item called for washers, nuts or bolts, every nut and every bo
lt needed-was included, and every last washer, nut and bolt was there - n
o extras and no shorts - ever.
-
Now If I were to simply stop here, only answering the question, I would be
a bad person. So let-me take this question in a new direction.-
-
When I showed up at CC#21, I had not remedied my crankcase ventilation prob
lem yet.- And-I had no rear baffles.- I was ready to make temp baffle
s from some alum sheet I brought amd-I would have just drilled a hole in
my valve covers to get through the break in.- HOWEVER William told me tha
t WHATEVER I needed, go to his table and grab it - I could pay him later.
- So I grabbed a $150 par of powder coated valve covers with oil fill and
breatehr tubes installed, and-two rear baffles and put them on my engine
.
-
If that wasnt enough, he noticed the hardware I used to mount my heads and
rocker arms were AN363 all metal self locking nuts.- He was concerned abo
ut a few issues with my selection / application.- So he went over to his
table and brought back about $80 dollars worh of grade 8 nuts and washers a
nd-AN363 jam nuts.-He told me to-use-his $400 digital torque wrench
vs my $25 beam style craftsman. -He showed me how to put these on the ro
ckers - the RIGHT way.- Never once did he mention the cost of the hardwar
e and has never-indicated I needed to add the two bags of nuts on to my v
alve cover bill, although I did and his money is on the way as I write this
.-
-
If that wasn't enough to do for me, a guy he knows barely, the final few mi
nutes of my breakin William teaches me EXACTLY how to check the timing at f
ull throttle to ensure my engine does not destroy itself all beacuse I dont
know how to do a 30 second job called "using a timing light to check timin
g".- But wait there is more.- As a final act of kindness, William-giv
es me the timing light as a gift.- Its a-very nice, BRAND NEW just out
of the box "set back" timing-light.- Probalby an $80 gift consider tax
and shipping.
-
I built my engine in 368 days and in that- time, my progress was NEVER de
layed while waiting on a part-frrom William.- There are TONS of things
to do while parts were on order.
-
William realized a long time ago he needed to do something about builders p
erceptions regarding-lead times.- So he hired a new welder - check him
out "at the handar".- William offers-a new CNC billet oil pan that does
not need to be welded - this saves time also.
-
If you think WW does not turn parts around fast enough I say you are wrong
and have unrealistic expectations.- If you dont like the lead times, feel
free to call Aeromax.- Oh wait a minute, you cant call Aeromax.- There
out of business.
-
Bob "Early Builder" Dewenter
Dayton OH
Corvair College 21 Graduate!
Pietenpol
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Corvair College 21 |
| From: | "Bryan Reed" <reed44(at)gmail.com> |
My God, speaking of flame thrower, what would you call your last post. Seemed like
an awful innocent question and certainly NOT deserving of your reply. People
hang here for help and camaraderie. If WW is such a stellar operation it surely
doesn't need defending.
Bryan
--------
Working Piet N5289B
While I may not always be right, I apologize well.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=358300#358300
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "C N Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> |
| Subject: | Re: coining new words |
James, I think Gardiner was referring to the pile of Pietenpols that
existed after the tornado at Sun 'n' Fun this spring. But your post is
very true. I haven"t flown in a Piet for 4 hours -- yet. But it would
certainly help to have a nice soft cushion!!!!
----- Original Message -----
From: James Haklin
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2011 10:29 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: coining new words
In the 2 years that I have been reading this site I have replied only
once--Not much to say I guess...
I couldn't pass this one--Pietenpile..... What you get when you fly
your Piet for 4 hours non-stop and you forgot your soft cushion...:0)
Still building but close,
Pickle Jim
On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 4:53 PM, airlion
wrote:
I think I have the best new word. How about a Pietenpile. Gardiner
----- Original Message ----
From: Bryan Reed <reed44(at)gmail.com>
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wed, November 16, 2011 1:18:20 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: coining new words
I think beer is what started this venture of new words. It must be
five o'clock
somewhere. : )
Try: Pieted, Similar to Tweeted but understood only by a select
group with
somewhat questionable sanity. When Pieted topics are discussed in
front of other
nonbelievers it may cause them to appear distracted with glazed over
eyes. Most
notably, spouses but the same effect can be rendered upon even
complete
strangers.
Cheers,
Bryan
--------
Working Piet N5289B
While I may not always be right, I apologize well.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=358116#358116
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omebuiltHELP www.homebuilthelp.com
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________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Corvair College 21 |
| From: | "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca> |
Hmmm, Bob... that's odd.
I had a hard time finding Greg's question, other than your response to it. Finally,
I found it in a different thread, posted three weeks ago. It appears that
immediately after the question was asked, it was answered (quite succinctly).
Having said that, I wouldn't necessarily say the question was "a load of crap".
It was a simple question asking whether the delivery times have improved. In
the past, some people had voiced concerns about extended delivery times for some
components. You say that yours was delivered in 60 days, and that is within
the the amount of time listed on William's website for that item.
It sounds as though (based on your experience) delivery times are not an issue.
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=358315#358315
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Cardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Corvair College 21 |
Bob Dewenter,
The question is NOT a "load of crap".
You can contact me off list if you'd like the back story.
Greg Cardinal
Minneapolis
gcardinal(at)comcast.net
----- Original Message -----
From: early builder
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2011 1:44 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Corvair College 21
Greg Bacon | From: | "Jack" <jack(at)textors.com> |
All,
I attended a recent EAA webinar on test flying your homebuilt, it was very
good. You can view a recording on the EAA site. Johnny White was the
presenter and he sent me the following regarding breaking in a rebuilt
engine. I'm not a mechanic but it could be some useful info for those in
need.
Hi Jack
Thanks for the comments and I am glad you enjoyed it. It is best to run in
with a Test Club prop in a cell but many an engine has been run in on the
ground and can be done with some reasonable precautions. Rent a Test Prop
if you can or a fine pitched prop so Rpm will come up to about 2200 static,
into a good breeze, keep them short, Run long enough to get oil temp up
above 180 if it will.
Three 15 to 20 minute runs are sufficient. Check the Oil Screen / filter and
drain just a little oil from the sump (Quick Drain installed) after the
third run and it has had time to drain down any particles that will settle
to the bottom of the sump to check for metal. Check the lower plugs for
contamination and condition of burn. Have a CHT gauge or use a Pyro meter to
check for the hot cylinder and just don't let them get over 375 degrees.
Fuel starvation is still the killer and the big risk.
In the air run it at 75% for 45 minutes at a time and cool very slowly with
small, slow throttle movements. "Step" down your power slowly and smoothly.
Power on descents from cruise altitude are a must. Leave power up and let
speed build and cool the engine gradually.
Good luck with you venture and let me know how it goes or if you need any
help I will be here.
Thanks again.
Fly Safe & Smooth
Johnny White
Aviators Unlimited
276-614-0412
johnny(at)aviatorsunlimited.us
www.aviatorsunlimited.us
Jack
DSM
N1929T
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org> |
Congratulations on the move. Your plane looks great. One thing did strike me
as being quite funny. It is when I look at your fuse pic. All I see in that
photo is a strange landing gear configuration. Do you think all three of you
can run fast enough to get it airborn?
Congrats,
--------
Scott Liefeld
Flying N11MS since March 1972
Steel Tube
C-85-12
Wire Wheels
Brodhead in 1996
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=358357#358357
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org> |
I guess what I am trying to say is that it is very Fred Flintson like.
Still laughing here in So CA,
--------
Scott Liefeld
Flying N11MS since March 1972
Steel Tube
C-85-12
Wire Wheels
Brodhead in 1996
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=358363#358363
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | The Value of a Forum... |
If you look forward to checking your List email everyday (and a lot of you have
written to say that you do!), then you're probably getting at least $20 or $30
worth of Entertainment from the Lists each year. You'd pay twice that for a
subscription to some magazine or even a dinner out. Arn't the Lists worth at
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Come to think of it, you do...
Won't you take a minute to make your Contribution today and support YOUR Lists?
Please make a Contribution today at:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
or by dropping a personal check in the mail to:
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581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
Again, I want to say THANK YOU to everyone that has made a Contribution thus far
during this year's List Fund Raiser!! These Lists are made possible exclusively
through YOUR generosity!!
Thank you for your support!
Matt Dralle
Email List Admin.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | airlion <airlion(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Fw: Corvair Aircraft Engine for Airplane (Lawrenceville) |
$4800
=0A=0A=0A=0A----- Forwarded Message ----=0AFrom: Ross Hoffman <mcrc4ld@yaho
o.com>=0ATo: gardiner(at)eaa1350.com=0ASent: Sat, November 19, 2011 5:11:16 PM
=0ASubject: Corvair Aircraft Engine for Airplane (Lawrenceville) $4800=0A
=0A=0A=0A=0Ahttp://atlanta.craigslist.org/nat/pts/2711194973.html=0A=0AConn
ected by MOTOBLUR=84=A2
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Barnwell Regional Airport" <barnwellairport(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Corvair college #21 |
Fellow Piet builders/flyers,
While no flying Pietenpols showed up [ mine is based here on the
airport ] we did have many Piet builders and potential builders on hand.
Many came seeking information on building and also learning about
corvair engines. Learning about engines was easy as there were 10
completed and test run during the weekend. Others were in various stages
of completion by Sunday afternoon.
Don Harper, Tim Freer and I held a "building tips" type forum on
Saturday afternoon in my hangar. I also gave many rides in my Piet. I'll
send pictures to Doc and Dee for the newsletter.
One thing I particulary wanted to mention was that among the 70
attendees was a gentleman by the name of Chuck Campbell who brought his
partially completed corvair engine that he plans to put on the Pietenpol
he is building. One might ask, whats unusual about that?
Chuck is 87 years old, flew F-6's in WWII.
If Chuck can do all that at 87, that should be inspiration enough to
keep younger builders going.
P. F. Beck
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jane and Fred <tbyh(at)aol.com> |
I'm looking for a good aluminum head for my Model A engine for the Piet? An
ybody got one?
Fred B.
La Crosse, WI
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: flying history |
Great clip! Love the vintage footage like that.
I came across this DVD, Victory By Air, in Walmart for $5.00. It is the best archival
DVD I have seen. 95% of the entire DVD is actual footage. I just watched
some of it again over the weekend. (I've had it about a year.)
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B003R0G4PA/?tag=googhydr-20&hvadid=13392082529&ref=pd_sl_1ki9tx6syn_e
Michael Perez
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Aluminum Head |
| From: | "womenfly2" <Love2Fly.KAP(at)gmail.com> |
--------
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=358642#358642
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Make Sure You're Listed -- List of Contributors Published |
Dec 1!
Dear Listers,
The List of Contributors (LOC) is just around the corner! On December 1st I post
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Its my way of publicly thanking everyone that took a minute to show their
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As a number of people have pointed out in their Contribution comments, the Lists
are a whole lot more valuable than your typical magazine subscription!
Won't you take minute and assure that your name is on the upcoming LOC? Tell others
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http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or, by dropping a personal check in the mail to:
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Livermore CA 94550
I would like to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution thus
far during this year's List Fund Raiser! Remember that its YOUR support that
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about how the Lists have helped you!
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Aluminum Head |
| From: | "Brett Phillips" <bphillip(at)shentel.net> |
Keri Ann is right on. The Winfield repros seem to have one of the best combustion
chamber designs of the available high compression heads. The fact that they
are available in Aluminum from Red's headers and Sacramento Vintage Ford makes
them a logical choice for Ford powered Piets. Be careful about your choice
of compression ratio though, too much will cause detonation which quickly destroys
babbitt. Most of the car guys agree that 6:1 works the best for relatively
stock engines. I believe the Winfield heads from Sacramento Vintage Ford
can be machined to reduce the compression ratio in case Red's headers is out
of stock.
http://www.vintageford.com/sect_search.cfm?Line=4B&Category=Engine-%20Heads
Having said all that, I don't own one of these heads (wish I did though). The
engine I'm building up will use the Dan Price head that came with the project.
I also have a Dick McKee head from the mid '80's that will likely remain a landlubber
due to a spotty reputation.
Best Regards,
Brett Phillips
Strasburg, VA
NX311GP
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=358724#358724
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Aluminum Head |
| From: | "Brett Phillips" <bphillip(at)shentel.net> |
Here's a thread from Fordbarn with some other sources:
http://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=52395
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=358732#358732
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Aluminum Head |
| From: | "899PM" <rockriverrifle(at)hotmail.com> |
Red's has these cast a couple times a year to meet demand. I waited several months
for a 7:1. I am running inserted mains and rods. Because my block had been
decked a couple times in its life, I have piston protrusion of about .040". I
had to machine piston clearance in my head to accommodate the piston protrusion
and the torqued head gasket thickness. I had several conversations with Larry
Brumfield and he was very adamant about a resultant squish area of about .040"-.060".
I machined clearance to result in a squish of .050", which yields a
CR of 6.7:1(which is exactly what the Funk heads were). My engine ran like the
proverbial "swiss watch" prior to the fiber cam gear self destructing.
--------
PAPA MIKE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=358744#358744
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Aluminum Head |
| From: | "womenfly2" <Love2Fly.KAP(at)gmail.com> |
My Model-A used a Dan Price 6:1 Aluminum head. Actual HP was 59 and turning an
Ash prop of 82" Dia. x 42 P with a 6 inch wide blade chord @ 1800 RPM in flight,
speed 73-MPH.
--------
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=358747#358747
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Aluminum Head |
| From: | "bender" <jfaith(at)solairusaviation.com> |
My engine ran like the proverbial "swiss watch" prior to the fiber cam gear self
destructing.
can you elaborate.. ?
i thought the fiber gears were OK... was there a problem ?
or the gear just broke ?
jeff in louisville.... close to running my A
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=358752#358752
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Aluminum Head |
| From: | "Brett Phillips" <bphillip(at)shentel.net> |
Keri Ann: I'd like to chat with you some time about the prop you were using.
I also have some other questions if you have time.
Jeff: Do a search on the Fordbarn site for timing gears, and you will find that
many folks in the car hobby are known to carry a spare cam gear on long trips.
I have gathered that some reproduction fiber gears are not made to the same
standards that Ford used. Aluminum and Bronze gears are available from several
sources. They may be a little noisier though. I have an aluminum gear from
Bratton's.
Brett
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=358758#358758
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Aluminum Head |
| From: | "Brett Phillips" <bphillip(at)shentel.net> |
Papa Mike:
Those Funk fellows were pretty slick, so I'm sure they had it pretty well figured
out. There are several guys who build Model A's for race cars that say a babbitted
engine can be built to reliably run over 8:1 compression. They say that
the key is to be careful with ignition timing and avoid any situation where
the engine pings or detonates. How was/is your engine timed? I've heard several
different settings suggested, anywhere from 28 to 32 degrees BTDC.
Brett
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=358759#358759
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Aluminum Head |
| From: | helspersew(at)aol.com |
How do you know it was in fact 59 HP? 82 inches seems very long. What was t
he ground clearance?
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN
-----Original Message-----
From: womenfly2 <Love2Fly.KAP(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Mon, Nov 21, 2011 2:57 pm
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aluminum Head
My Model-A used a Dan Price 6:1 Aluminum head. Actual HP was 59 and turning
an
sh prop of 82" Dia. x 42 P with a 6 inch wide blade chord @ 1800 RPM in fli
ght,
peed 73-MPH.
--------
ead this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=358747#358747
-
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lawrence Williams <lnawms(at)yahoo.com> |
Fred-
why in the world would you want an aluminum head? Get a good iron head (the heavier
the better) and you won't be perpetually fighting a tail-heavy aeroplane.
Larry
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Aluminum head |
| From: | helspersew(at)aol.com |
Hey Larry- Not so fast. Mine is nose heavy with the Aluminum head.
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN
-----Original Message-----
From: Lawrence Williams <lnawms(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Mon, Nov 21, 2011 7:56 pm
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Aluminum head
Fred-
why in the world would you want an aluminum head? Get a good iron head (the
heavier the better) and you won't be perpetually fighting a tail-heavy aer
oplane.
Larry
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________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Aluminum Head |
| From: | "womenfly2" <Love2Fly.KAP(at)gmail.com> |
helspersew(at)aol.com wrote:
> How do you know it was in fact 59 HP? 82 inches seems very long. What was the
ground clearance?
>
> Dan Helsper
> Puryear, TN
>
>
>
> --
Calculated with actual numbers from flight testing. Wheels 18" rims with tyres,
23" OD. Fuselage was from the Flying & Glider Manual and the deepest dimension
mid cockpits is 24" per plans. Prop had 6" ground clearance with stretched bungees
with top fuselage longeron leveled.
--------
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=358793#358793
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Mountain Piet Mending Update |
| From: | Greg Bacon <gbacon67(at)gmail.com> |
Epoxy varnish is completed on both the new center section and wing.
Covering is next. Also, a few days ago, a local A&P mechanic stopped by
to inspect my work prior to covering. He took a bunch of photos and said
it looked "marvelous", so I'm feeling a lot better about that first flight.
After final assembly, he will check it out again and issue a ferry permit.
I'll fly it to his shop for it's first annual in 7 years. My goal is to
get this done this Winter, weather permitting.
I'm still in need of 3 yards of 3 inch bias cut tape. If anyone has some,
please contact me off line at gbacon67(at)gmail.com so we can work out a
purchase/trade. Thanks
Greg Bacon
Prairie Home, MO
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Aluminum Head |
| From: | "Brett Phillips" <bphillip(at)shentel.net> |
Larry has a good point! If your airplane is already tail heavy, a good cast iron
head would be a much better fix than adding lead to the nose. The iron heads
are thought to be more stable and resistant to warping too. Mr Pietenpol's
first Air Campers were all flown with the stock iron heads. It wasn't until
the early-mid thirties that he began recommending the high compression heads (which
happened to be aluminum).
Regarding propellers: The propeller Mr Pietenpol recommended for the Model A in
the Flying and Glider manual article was a WWI surplus item intended for use
on the 28 HP Lawrance powered Breese Penguin like this one:
http://www.woodenpropeller.com/LangLawrance.html
Note that it measures 2000mm x 1000mm (78.74 x 39.37). Mr Pietenpol later revised
his recommendation to a smaller diameter and steeper pitch. I wonder if this
was for economic reasons (no more cheap surplus props), or performance reasons?
I know, more questions than answers....
Brett Phillips
Strasburg, VA
NX311GP
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=358799#358799
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Aluminum Head |
| From: | "womenfly2" <Love2Fly.KAP(at)gmail.com> |
.... if using an aluminum head on the Model-A, best to lengthen your motor mount
to balance her. Heavy aft CG depends more on the pilots weight in rear cockpit.
You want to be more in the torque curve on the Model-A, 1600-1800 RPM.
--------
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=358810#358810
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Aluminum Head |
| From: | helspersew(at)aol.com |
That 6" ground clearance is too close for comfort. I think Bingelis recomme
nds 9 or 11, can't remember. Please explain the formula for flight-testing
H.P. calculation.
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN
-----Original Message-----
From: womenfly2 <Love2Fly.KAP(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Tue, Nov 22, 2011 7:18 am
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aluminum Head
elspersew(at)aol.com wrote:
How do you know it was in fact 59 HP? 82 inches seems very long. What was
the
round clearance?
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN
--
alculated with actual numbers from flight testing. Wheels 18" rims with tyr
es,
3" OD. Fuselage was from the Flying & Glider Manual and the deepest dimensi
on
id cockpits is 24" per plans. Prop had 6" ground clearance with stretched
ungees with top fuselage longeron leveled.
--------
ead this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=358793#358793
-
-= -- Please Support Your Lists This Month --
-= (And Get Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!)
-
-= November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Click on
-= the Contribution link below to find out more about
-= this year's Terrific Free Incentive Gifts provided
-= by:
-=
-= * AeroElectric www.aeroelectric.com
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-
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-========================
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-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
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-= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
-========================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Contributions Down By 20%... |
Dear Listers,
As of today, Contributions to the Matronics List Fund Raiser are lagging behind
last year at this time by roughly 20%. I have a Fund Raiser each year simply
to cover my operating costs for the Lists. I *do not* accept any advertising
income to support the Lists and rely solely on the Contributions of members to
keep the expenses paid.
I run all of my own servers and they are housed here locally, and the Internet
connection is a commercial-grade, T1 connection with public address space. I
also maintain a full backup system that does nightly backups of all List-related
data so that in the event of a server crash, all of the Lists and the many
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hours.
All of this costs a fair amount of money, not to mention a significant amount of
my personal time. I have a Fund Raiser each year to cover these costs and I
ask that members that feel they receive a benefit from my investments make a
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If you enjoy the Lists, please make a Contribution today. I also offer some incentive
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Or, drop a personal check in the mail to:
Matt Dralle / Matronics
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
Thank you for your support!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Aluminum Head |
| From: | "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca> |
Attached are a couple of clippings from Tony Bingelis' writings. Basically, he
recommends a minimum of 9", but does say that some dare to go lower.
Bill C.
Dan Wrote:
> That 6" ground clearance is too close for comfort. I think Bingelis recommends
9 or 11, can't remember.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=359005#359005
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/bingelis_apr79_200.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/bingelis_feb73_170.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Was Aluminum head, now Chess Pie |
| From: | "Piet2112" <curtdm(at)gmail.com> |
I see it now, Chess Pie and Beets.....the new Brodhead tradition.
Back to hack'n 4130
Curtis Merdan
Flower Mound, TX
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=359026#359026
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Happy Thanksgiving Everyone ! |
| From: | Hans Van Der Voort <hvandervoo(at)aol.com> |
Happy Thanksgiving Everyone !
Build, Fly Have fun and watch your W&B
Hans
NX15KV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | 24 Corvair Engines For Sale |
Just saw this on Barnstormers...in case someone is in the market.
=C2-
=C2-
CORVAIR ENGINES (24TOTAL) =A2 $100 =A2 FOR SALE BY OWNER
=A2 24 Corvair engines for sale($100-600) along with a barn full of parts.
(402) 460-7097 anytime. Chris =A2 Contact Christopher A. Shade - SHAD
E'S CLASSIC CORNER, Owner - located Hastings, NE USA =A2 Telephone: 4
02 460-7097 . 402 463-5577 . =A2 Fax: 402 462-4500 =A2 Posted O
ctober 25, 2011 =A2
Michael Perez
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Was Aluminum head, now Chess Pie |
| From: | "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com> |
Just a couple of good friends sharing during the holiday season.
Happy Thanksgiving to all.
--------
Semper Fi,
Terry Hand
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=359067#359067
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | AMsafetyC(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | What do ya get when? |
What do ya get when you take a a coffee travel mug filled with Sambuca
Romano and ice and 45 minutes in the hot tub looking at the stars?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KM Heide CPO/FAAOP <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Wooden Gear Legs |
Members:
-
Can someone send me a clsoe up photo of the outside and inside landing gear
fitting? I am not certain how these two match up inside and out. In additi
on,-is the wing strut fitting- channeled through the gear leg or sandwi
ched between the fuse and gear leg? I am following West Coast Piet web site
for wooden gear leg fabrication.
-KMHeide
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KM Heide CPO/FAAOP <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com> |
Disregard the last message.
-KMHeide
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris" <catdesigns(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Wooden Gear Legs |
KM Heide
Are you talking about the lower landing gear fittings? I have several
pictures of the inner fitting but I don't seem to have a good picture of the
outer. This is the best I can find that shows both of them.
http://westcoastpiet.com/images/Chris%20Tracy/images/IMG_2974.JPG
Once you get the landing gear legs cut make paper patterns of the two
fittings, transfer the bolt hole locations across the gear leg and you will
see how they go together. If you follow the steps on how I built the
fittings, it will work out fine. Whatever you do don't make them before the
gear legs are cut because they may or may not fit correctly.
I built my upper gear fittings like Mike Cuy's
http://westcoastpiet.com/images/Mike%20Cuy%20A-65%20Piet/images/Piet_landing
_gear_fitting_sketch_on_fuselage.jpg
and see attached sketch. I had to cut a channel through the upper gear leg
to clear the fitting.The leg sits flush against the fuselage bottom plywood.
Not sure how this is going to work out once it gets covered.
Chris
Sacramento, Ca
Westcoastpiet.com
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of KM Heide
CPO/FAAOP
Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2011 9:33 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wooden Gear Legs
Members:
Can someone send me a clsoe up photo of the outside and inside landing gear
fitting? I am not certain how these two match up inside and out. In
addition, is the wing strut fitting channeled through the gear leg or
sandwiched between the fuse and gear leg? I am following West Coast Piet web
site for wooden gear leg fabrication.
KMHeide
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris" <catdesigns(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Wooden Gear Legs |
I forgot to attach the sketch of my upper gear fittings.. They are modified
from the way the plans show. The plans show the fitting coming up through
the floor. The original F&G plans do not have an ash cross member like the
Improved Plans show. I modified mine so I did not have to cut the ash cross
member. ( like in this plane,
<http://westcoastpiet.com/images/Larry%20Williams/images/25_yellow_piet_cont
rol_cluster.jpg>
http://westcoastpiet.com/images/Larry%20Williams/images/25_yellow_piet_contr
ol_cluster.jpg )
Chris
Sacramento, Ca
Westcoastpiet.com
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris
Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2011 10:23 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wooden Gear Legs
KM Heide
Are you talking about the lower landing gear fittings? I have several
pictures of the inner fitting but I don't seem to have a good picture of the
outer. This is the best I can find that shows both of them.
http://westcoastpiet.com/images/Chris%20Tracy/images/IMG_2974.JPG
Once you get the landing gear legs cut make paper patterns of the two
fittings, transfer the bolt hole locations across the gear leg and you will
see how they go together. If you follow the steps on how I built the
fittings, it will work out fine. Whatever you do don't make them before the
gear legs are cut because they may or may not fit correctly.
I built my upper gear fittings like Mike Cuy's
http://westcoastpiet.com/images/Mike%20Cuy%20A-65%20Piet/images/Piet_landing
_gear_fitting_sketch_on_fuselage.jpg
and see attached sketch. I had to cut a channel through the upper gear leg
to clear the fitting.The leg sits flush against the fuselage bottom plywood.
Not sure how this is going to work out once it gets covered.
Chris
Sacramento, Ca
Westcoastpiet.com
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of KM Heide
CPO/FAAOP
Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2011 9:33 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wooden Gear Legs
Members:
Can someone send me a clsoe up photo of the outside and inside landing gear
fitting? I am not certain how these two match up inside and out. In
addition, is the wing strut fitting channeled through the gear leg or
sandwiched between the fuse and gear leg? I am following West Coast Piet web
site for wooden gear leg fabrication.
KMHeide
href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref
"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com
/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TOM MICHELLE BRANT <tmbrant(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Mountain Piet Mending Update |
shame you have to cover that up! Great work - looks beautiful.
Tom B.
Date: Tue=2C 22 Nov 2011 07:53:18 -0600
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Mountain Piet Mending Update
From: gbacon67(at)gmail.com
Epoxy varnish is completed on both the new center section and wing. Coveri
ng is next. Also=2C a few days ago=2C a local A&P mechanic stopped by to i
nspect my work prior to covering. He took a bunch of photos and said it lo
oked "marvelous"=2C so I'm feeling a lot better about that first flight. A
fter final assembly=2C he will check it out again and issue a ferry permit.
I'll fly it to his shop for it's first annual in 7 years. My goal is to
get this done this Winter=2C weather permitting.
I'm still in need of 3 yards of 3 inch bias cut tape. If anyone has some
=2C please contact me off line at gbacon67(at)gmail.com so we can work out a p
urchase/trade. Thanks
Greg Bacon Prairie Home=2C MO
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack" <jack(at)textors.com> |
| Subject: | Piet Project on eBay |
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170735359743&viewitem=&ss
pagename=ADME%3AB%3ASS%3AMOTORS%3A1123
Happy Thanksgiving Friends!
Jack
DSM
NX1929T
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
Our good friend and fellow builder, Jerry Dotson, made this Corian engraved
plate for me..been wondering what to do with it for several months. Then it
came to me..
It's a hot pad for Little Smokies in the crock pot.
Happy Thanksgiving to All,
Gary Boothe
NX308MB
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Piet Project on eBay |
| From: | "j_dunavin" <j_dunavin(at)hotmail.com> |
I spy... no gussets on the wing ribs.
Still likes a good project though.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=359113#359113
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "j_dunavin" <j_dunavin(at)hotmail.com> |
NICE! When's the food going to be ready?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=359114#359114
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Piet Project on eBay |
| From: | "j_dunavin" <j_dunavin(at)hotmail.com> |
oh that is interesting, i didn't see those solid / full sheet ribs.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=359120#359120
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Boyer <boyerjrb(at)comcast.net> |
Happy Thanksgiving everyone; real nice trivet Gary.
Cheers,
Jim B.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Clif Dawson" <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Wooden Gear Legs |
If it's any help I've documented my leg building
oddessy here, page three and four.
http://www.clifdawson.ca/Homepage4-10-06/Pietenpol3.html
----- Original Message -----
From: Chris
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2011 10:23 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wooden Gear Legs
KM Heide
Are you talking about the lower landing gear fittings? I have several
pictures of the inner fitting but I don't seem to have a good picture of
the outer. This is the best I can find that shows both of them.
http://westcoastpiet.com/images/Chris%20Tracy/images/IMG_2974.JPG
Once you get the landing gear legs cut make paper patterns of the two
fittings, transfer the bolt hole locations across the gear leg and you
will see how they go together. If you follow the steps on how I built
the fittings, it will work out fine. Whatever you do don't make them
before the gear legs are cut because they may or may not fit correctly.
I built my upper gear fittings like Mike Cuy's
http://westcoastpiet.com/images/Mike%20Cuy%20A-65%20Piet/images/Piet_land
ing_gear_fitting_sketch_on_fuselage.jpg
and see attached sketch. I had to cut a channel through the upper gear
leg to clear the fitting.The leg sits flush against the fuselage bottom
plywood. Not sure how this is going to work out once it gets covered.
Chris
Sacramento, Ca
Westcoastpiet.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of KM Heide
CPO/FAAOP
Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2011 9:33 PM
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wooden Gear Legs
Members:
Can someone send me a clsoe up photo of the outside and inside
landing gear fitting? I am not certain how these two match up inside and
out. In addition, is the wing strut fitting channeled through the gear
leg or sandwiched between the fuse and gear leg? I am following West
Coast Piet web site for wooden gear leg fabrication.
KMHeide
href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
11/23/11
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Clif Dawson" <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca> |
Why does a Pietenpol only have one wing?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pfZiTDchH0&feature=related
Clif
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Just A Few More Days To Make Your List Contribution... |
There is less than a week left in this year's List Fund Raiser and only a few short
days to grab one of the great Contribution Gifts available this year. Support
is still significantly lagging behind last year at this point but hopefully
it will pick up here towards the end. Please remember that it is solely the
Contributions of List members that keeps the Lists up and running as there
is no commercialism or advertising on the Matronics Lists and Forums.
The List Contribution web site is secure, fast, and easy and you can use a credit
card, Paypal:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or, drop a personal check in the mail to:
Matt Dralle / Matronics
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
I want to thank everyone that has already made a generous contribution to support
the Lists!
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics EMail List and Forum Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bryan Reed" <reed44(at)gmail.com> |
Jack,
Everybody knows that Chevrolet is the heartbeat of America. Instead of aviation
though they trend more toward a nautical theme. They make the most fantastic
boat anchors.
Should we discuss high wing vs. the low brow, low wingers next. : )
(Please note smiley) or the new ghetto slang "just saying"
Cheers,
Bryan
--------
Working Piet N5289B
While I may not always be right, I apologize well.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=359305#359305
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Boyer <boyerjrb(at)comcast.net> |
HI Gary,
So who stole the other wing? Wing looks good; is this a precover picture?
Cheers,
Jim B.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gboothe5" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
Jim,
Ryan & I were just moving stuff aroundstill have to varnish.
Gary
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim
Boyer
Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 9:18 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Ford Tough
HI Gary,
So who stole the other wing? Wing looks good; is this a precover
picture?
Cheers,
Jim B.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Wing Strut Cable Curious |
I see the plans show 3/32" cable for the wing struts. I understand most use
1/8"- I see the 1/8" cable is rated at around twice that of 3/32"- Why
the change from the plans? Is it necessary to switch to the twice as stron
g 1/8"?
Michael Perez
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wing Strut Cable Curious |
| From: | helspersew(at)aol.com |
Mike,
It is not necessary. Mine has been flying fine with 3/32 and I assume many
more have also over the years. Needless extra weight.
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Sent: Sat, Nov 26, 2011 4:57 pm
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing Strut Cable Curious
I see the plans show 3/32" cable for the wing struts. I understand most use
1/8" I see the 1/8" cable is rated at around twice that of 3/32" Why the
change from the plans? Is it necessary to switch to the twice as strong 1/
8"?
Michael Perez
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
-
-= -- Please Support Your Lists This Month --
-= (And Get Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!)
-
-= November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Click on
-= the Contribution link below to find out more about
-= this year's Terrific Free Incentive Gifts provided
-= by:
-
-= * AeroElectric www.aeroelectric.com
-= * The Builder's Bookstore www.buildersbooks.com
-= * HomebuiltHELP www.homebuilthelp.com
-
-= List Contribution Web Site:
-
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
-
-= Thank you for your generous support!
-
-= -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
-
-========================
-= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum -
-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
-= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
-= Photoshare, and much much more:
-
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
-
-========================
-= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
-= Same great content also available via the Web Forums!
-
-= --> http://forums.matronics.com
-
-========================
-= - List Contribution Web Site -
-= Thank you for your generous support!
-= -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
-========================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Boyer <boyerjrb(at)comcast.net> |
Hi Gary,
Y our wing looks good; a re yo u going to paint the fuselage and tail befor
e you=C2-cover the wings.
Just got the sealant for my gas tank and have to make the opening now for t
he filler neck and finger strainer at the outlet.
Hope you had a great Thanksgiving.
Jim B.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing Strut Cable Curious |
Copy. I didn't think any Piets. were falling out of the sky with 3/32"...but you
never know.
Michael Perez
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Please Make A Contribution Today... |
Dear Listers,
A quick reminder that November is the annual List Fund Raiser and the List of Contributors
is quickly approching. The Matronics Lists are 100% member supported
and all of the operational costs are provided for by your Contributions during
this time of the year.
Your personal Contribution makes a big difference and keeps all of the Matronics
Email Lists and Forums completely ad-free.
Please make your Contribution today to keep these services up and running!
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
or by dropping a personal check in the mail to:
Matt Dralle / Matronics
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
Thank you in advance!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List and Forum Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Please Make A Contribution Today... |
| From: | "Ozarkflyer" <lragan(at)hotmail.com> |
As I posted on another Matronics forum, I have found this site as valuable a source
of information, concerning Piets and other aircraft, as there is. I visit
it almost daily and find it well worth the donation that I made. I encourage
all of you who read this to step up and contribute so that we may keep this
valuable source of information.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=359505#359505
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | V Groah <vgroah(at)hotmail.com> |
Sounds like both Gary and Jim B are making progress. Good news. I have no
t had any word from any of the west coast piet guys for quite a while. I w
ould like an update from all of you.
We are deep into covering our first wing. That rib stitching was not so ba
d after all. Just a few hours of careful work. It is now pink and going f
or the next stage. Still no hanger. Will check with another airport this
week. Hmmm.
Keep up the good work and let us know how you are doing. Hope to see you a
ll at Frazier Lake in June.
Vic
Date: Sat=2C 26 Nov 2011 23:50:45 +0000
From: boyerjrb(at)comcast.net
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Ford Toug
Hi Gary=2C
Your wing looks good=3B are you going to paint the fuselage and tail before
you cover the wings.
Just got the sealant for my gas tank and have to make the opening now for t
he filler neck and finger strainer at the outlet.
Hope you had a great Thanksgiving.
Jim B.
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Leading edge attachment |
| From: | "tdudley(at)umn.edu" <tdudley(at)umn.edu> |
Forgive me in advance if the question doesn't have much merit, but I was wondering
if the leading edge could be attached with epoxy alone or is it necessary
to use the 8-32 machine bolts?
Thanks,
Tom
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=359508#359508
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Schreiber <lmforge(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Leading edge attachment |
On 11/27/2011 8:00 PM, tdudley(at)umn.edu wrote:
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "tdudley(at)umn.edu"
>
> Forgive me in advance if the question doesn't have much merit, but I was wondering
if the leading edge could be attached with epoxy alone or is it necessary
to use the 8-32 machine bolts?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Tom
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=359508#359508
>
>
Tom:
I am not aware of anyone who has not used the bolts. I would feel
uncomfortable myself being the test pilot for this type of
re-engineering. The bolts work well for getting everything lined up and
the leading edge snug against the ribs.
Rick Schreiber
Valparaiso IN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | V Groah <vgroah(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Leading edge attachment |
We used bolts as well as the glue. Just to be safe. Vic
> Date: Sun=2C 27 Nov 2011 20:14:12 -0600
> From: lmforge(at)earthlink.net
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Leading edge attachment
>
et>
>
> On 11/27/2011 8:00 PM=2C tdudley(at)umn.edu wrote:
>
> >
> > Forgive me in advance if the question doesn't have much merit=2C but I
was wondering if the leading edge could be attached with epoxy alone or is
it necessary to use the 8-32 machine bolts?
> >
> > Thanks=2C
> >
> > Tom
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=359508#359508
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> Tom:
> I am not aware of anyone who has not used the bolts. I would feel
> uncomfortable myself being the test pilot for this type of
> re-engineering. The bolts work well for getting everything lined up and
> the leading edge snug against the ribs.
>
> Rick Schreiber
> Valparaiso IN
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave Millikan <n11dmx(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Leading edge attachment |
-Mt LE are .016 aluminum attached with nails and epoxy.
They are in 3 ft sections- ( to prevent oil canning with temp changes)
I used this on my SA-300 , works.
Dave-- NX1QZ
--- On Mon, 11/28/11, V Groah wrote:
From: V Groah <vgroah(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Leading edge attachment
Date: Monday, November 28, 2011, 3:01 AM
We used bolts as well as the-glue.- Just to be safe. Vic
-
> Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 20:14:12 -0600
> From: lmforge(at)earthlink.net
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Leading edge attachment
>
et>
>
> On 11/27/2011 8:00 PM, tdudley(at)umn.edu wrote:
>
> >
> > Forgive me in advance if the question doesn't have much merit, but I wa
s wondering if the leading edge could be attached with epoxy alone or is it
necessary to use the 8-32 machine bolts?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Tom
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=359508#359508
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> Tom:
> I am not aware of anyone who has not used the bolts. I would feel
> uncomfortable myself being the test pilot for this type of
> re-engineering. The bolts work well for getting everything lined up and
> the leading edge snug against the ribs.
>
> Rick Schreiber
> Valparaiso IN
>
> =
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Pietenpol Mid Air |
| From: | "Pieti Lowell" <Lowellcfrank(at)yahoo.com> |
Today was not the most enjoyable cool flight, Thought I would put a few hours on
the Old Ford, with heat from the radiator and a warm outfit.
I was traveling North, And all of a sudden a flock of Canadian Geese came out of
nowhere on a South path, I eased a slight left course to avoid the flock and
they decided to try a right quick turn.In order to avoid I did a snap to the
left, heard a loud bang, Something snapped, maybe a cable or wood structure, didn't
feel anything except a sharp jolt, I leveled and tried to see anything that
might be a serious problem. I Did a 180 and a long long nerve racking flight
back to the Airport, NO vibrating or odd noises were detectable, taxied up
to the hanger chopped the Ford and took a look around. Nothing, tail feathers
OK, Cables OK, Prop, OK, Wings looked OK.I parked her in the Hanger and during
the gas refueling, the Right Wing Tip had a streak of red, running four and aft,
Close inspection revealed a broken end rib between the spars, Just the top
was dented,
If I had not made a sharp turn that raised the right wing maybe I could have missed
that goose, but on the other hand there were many more to contend with. Felt
sorry for that poor bird.
Pieti Lowell
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=359520#359520
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol Mid Air |
| From: | Andrew Eldredge <andrew.eldredge(at)gmail.com> |
Sounds like it could easily been worse. Glad to hear you're alright.
Andrew
On Sun, Nov 27, 2011 at 8:50 PM, Pieti Lowell wrote:
> Lowellcfrank(at)yahoo.com>
>
> Today was not the most enjoyable cool flight, Thought I would put a few
> hours on the Old Ford, with heat from the radiator and a warm outfit.
> I was traveling North, And all of a sudden a flock of Canadian Geese came
> out of nowhere on a South path, I eased a slight left course to avoid the
> flock and they decided to try a right quick turn.In order to avoid I did a
> snap to the left, heard a loud bang, Something snapped, maybe a cable or
> wood structure, didn't feel anything except a sharp jolt, I leveled and
> tried to see anything that might be a serious problem. I Did a 180 and a
> long long nerve racking flight back to the Airport, NO vibrating or odd
> noises were detectable, taxied up to the hanger chopped the Ford and took a
> look around. Nothing, tail feathers OK, Cables OK, Prop, OK, Wings looked
> OK.I parked her in the Hanger and during the gas refueling, the Right Wing
> Tip had a streak of red, running four and aft, Close inspection revealed a
> broken end rib between the spars, Just the top was dented,
> If I had not made a sharp turn that raised the right wing maybe I could
> have missed that goose, but on the other hand there were many more to
> contend with. Felt sorry for that poor bird.
> Pieti Lowell
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=359520#359520
>
>
--
Andrew Eldredge
Provo, UT
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TOM MICHELLE BRANT <tmbrant(at)msn.com> |
Hey Chuck=2C
Glad to see the engine is going together nicely. Any major surprises? Rem
ember=2C I'm the guy who sold it to you.
Tom B.
From: cncampbell(at)windstream.net
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Ford Tough
Date: Sat=2C 26 Nov 2011 08:43:10 -0500
Hey! My Chevy Corvair engine is going to
touch MY airplane!!!!! Engine is finished except for the oil pickup and
oil pan. Can't put them on because the engine stand blocks access to the
bottom of the engine. C
----- Original Message -----
From:
Jack
Phillips
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday=2C November 25=2C 2011 4:22
PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Ford
Tough
Looking good=2C
Gary.
And I agree ' there=92s nothing Chevy ever made that should touch an
airplaneJ
Jack
Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake=2C
Virginia
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Boot
he
Sent: Friday=2C November 25=2C 2011 3:16
PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Ford
Tough
Try
doing that with a Chevy!!
Gary Boothe
NX308MB
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol Mid Air |
| From: | Hans Van Der Voort <hvandervoo(at)aol.com> |
Feel sorry for that poor bird too.
Glad that the other old Bird made it save to the roost.
.
Hans
NX 15KV
-----Original Message-----
From: Pieti Lowell <Lowellcfrank(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Sun, Nov 27, 2011 9:53 pm
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol Mid Air
m>
Today was not the most enjoyable cool flight, Thought I would put a few hou
rs on
he Old Ford, with heat from the radiator and a warm outfit.
was traveling North, And all of a sudden a flock of Canadian Geese came ou
t of
owhere on a South path, I eased a slight left course to avoid the flock and
hey decided to try a right quick turn.In order to avoid I did a snap to the
eft, heard a loud bang, Something snapped, maybe a cable or wood structure,
idn't feel anything except a sharp jolt, I leveled and tried to see anythin
g
hat might be a serious problem. I Did a 180 and a long long nerve racking
light back to the Airport, NO vibrating or odd noises were detectable, taxi
ed
p to the hanger chopped the Ford and took a look around. Nothing, tail feat
hers
K, Cables OK, Prop, OK, Wings looked OK.I parked her in the Hanger and duri
ng
he gas refueling, the Right Wing Tip had a streak of red, running four and
aft,
lose inspection revealed a broken end rib between the spars, Just the top w
as
ented,
f I had not made a sharp turn that raised the right wing maybe I could have
issed that goose, but on the other hand there were many more to contend wit
h.
elt sorry for that poor bird.
ieti Lowell
ead this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=359520#359520
-
-= -- Please Support Your Lists This Month --
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gliderx5(at)comcast.net |
| Subject: | Re: Leading edge attachment |
Tom
I used epoxy alone. Also epoxied the LE sheeting to the LE and ribs. I believe
it is strong enough, but I have not finished or flow the airplane yet.
Malcolm Morrison
----- Original Message -----
From: tdudley(at)umn.edu
Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2011 9:00:38 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Leading edge attachment
Forgive me in advance if the question doesn't have much merit, but I was wondering
if the leading edge could be attached with epoxy alone or is it necessary
to use the 8-32 machine bolts?
Thanks,
Tom
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=359508#359508
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Leading edge attachment |
| From: | helspersew(at)aol.com |
Tom,
Your question has as much merit as any other. I used the 8-32 machine screw
s. I would like to hear if any flying Piets only used the glue.
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN
-----Original Message-----
From: tdudley <tdudley(at)umn.edu>
Sent: Sun, Nov 27, 2011 8:03 pm
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Leading edge attachment
Forgive me in advance if the question doesn't have much merit, but I was
ondering if the leading edge could be attached with epoxy alone or is it
ecessary to use the 8-32 machine bolts?
Thanks,
Tom
ead this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=359508#359508
-
-= -- Please Support Your Lists This Month --
-= (And Get Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!)
-
-= November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Click on
-= the Contribution link below to find out more about
-= this year's Terrific Free Incentive Gifts provided
-= by:
-=
-= * AeroElectric www.aeroelectric.com
-= * The Builder's Bookstore www.buildersbooks.com
-= * HomebuiltHELP www.homebuilthelp.com
-
-= List Contribution Web Site:
-
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
-
-= Thank you for your generous support!
-
-= -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
-
-========================
-= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum -
-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
-= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
-= Photoshare, and much much more:
-
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
-
-========================
-= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
-= Same great content also available via the Web Forums!
-
-= --> http://forums.matronics.com
-
-========================
-= - List Contribution Web Site -
-= Thank you for your generous support!
-= -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
-========================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Leading edge attachment |
I just used epoxy, no screws. I'm hoping it's not an issue since I also recessed
the 1/16" ply "down into" the leading edge material. That and the fabric wrapped
around the LE should keep it from falling off....
JM
-----Original Message-----
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
Sent: Nov 28, 2011 6:56 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Leading edge attachment
Tom,
Your question has as much merit as any other. I used the 8-32 machine screws. I
would like to hear if any flying Piets only used the glue.
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN
-----Original Message-----
From: tdudley <tdudley(at)umn.edu>
Sent: Sun, Nov 27, 2011 8:03 pm
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Leading edge attachment
Forgive me in advance if the question doesn't have much merit, but I was
wondering if the leading edge could be attached with epoxy alone or is it
necessary to use the 8-32 machine bolts?
Thanks,
Tom
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=359508#359508
_blank>www.aeroelectric.com
/" target=_blank>www.buildersbooks.com
=_blank>www.homebuilthelp.com
blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
p://forums.matronics.com
blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gboothe5" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Leading edge attachment |
Dadoed leading edge with recess for plywood..all epoxied.
Gary from Cool
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
helspersew(at)aol.com
Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 3:56 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Leading edge attachment
Tom,
Your question has as much merit as any other. I used the 8-32 machine
screws. I would like to hear if any flying Piets only used the glue.
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN
-----Original Message-----
From: tdudley <tdudley(at)umn.edu>
Sent: Sun, Nov 27, 2011 8:03 pm
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Leading edge attachment
Forgive me in advance if the question doesn't have much merit, but I was
wondering if the leading edge could be attached with epoxy alone or is it
necessary to use the 8-32 machine bolts?
Thanks,
Tom
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=359508#359508
_blank>www.aeroelectric.com
/" target=_blank>www.buildersbooks.com
=_blank>www.homebuilthelp.com
blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
p://forums.matronics.com
blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Leading edge attachment |
| From: | "womenfly2" <Love2Fly.KAP(at)gmail.com> |
Used T-88 with No: 8 Sheet Metal screws into nose web of rib, with drilled hole.
T-88 is strong alone, reason I used screws was to fixture Leading-edge in place
and acting as a clamp until T-88 cured.
--------
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=359537#359537
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Aileron cable quick disconnect |
| From: | Greg Bacon <gbacon67(at)gmail.com> |
Does anyone have close-up photos of a simple aileron cable quick disconnect
or product info for an off-the-shelf item?
>From westcoastpiet.com photos, I see Jack Phillips used disconnects, but I
can't make out enough detail. I think Corky may have used them as well.
For future reference, the purpose for the disconnects is to avoid having to
disassemble the center section pulleys in the event wings are removed.
Thanks.
--
Greg Bacon
Prairie Home, MO
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Aileron cable quick disconnect |
I just used turnbuckles and shackles in the wings. Pain in the butt to
disconnect and connect, but not something you do every day, and certainly
better than cutting the cables.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Greg Bacon
Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 9:02 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Aileron cable quick disconnect
Does anyone have close-up photos of a simple aileron cable quick disconnect
or product info for an off-the-shelf item?
>From westcoastpiet.com photos, I see Jack Phillips used disconnects, but I
can't make out enough detail. I think Corky may have used them as well.
For future reference, the purpose for the disconnects is to avoid having to
disassemble the center section pulleys in the event wings are removed.
Thanks.
--
Greg Bacon
Prairie Home, MO
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Aileron cable quick disconnect |
Darn, forgot to attach the picture.
I just used turnbuckles and shackles, as shown in the picture below:
If you look to the left and right of the centersection, you can see the
aileron cables and the turnbuckles and shackles. These are accessible
through inspection ports on the bottom of the wings. I also used quick
disconnect fittings for the pitot and static lines, made by Colder Products.
http://www.colder.com/Tabid/72/MaterialID/1/cID/1/sID/7/Products.aspx
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Greg Bacon
Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 9:02 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Aileron cable quick disconnect
Does anyone have close-up photos of a simple aileron cable quick disconnect
or product info for an off-the-shelf item?
>From westcoastpiet.com photos, I see Jack Phillips used disconnects, but I
can't make out enough detail. I think Corky may have used them as well.
For future reference, the purpose for the disconnects is to avoid having to
disassemble the center section pulleys in the event wings are removed.
Thanks.
--
Greg Bacon
Prairie Home, MO
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Wilson <jlwilsonnn(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Aileron cable quick disconnect |
We just use a simple little "shackle". Cable from cockpit goes beyond center
section into wing. Then between root rib and next rib cable meets cable fro
m the aileron. Connect there with the shackle and provide inspection hole be
low junction.
Turnbuckle for tension adjustment is on lower aileron horn for easy access.
Jeff Wilson
St. Louis, MO
Sent from my iPhone
On Nov 28, 2011, at 8:02 AM, Greg Bacon wrote:
> Does anyone have close-up photos of a simple aileron cable quick disconnec
t or product info for an off-the-shelf item?
>
> =46rom westcoastpiet.com photos, I see Jack Phillips used disconnects, but
I can't make out enough detail. I think Corky may have used them as well.
>
> For future reference, the purpose for the disconnects is to avoid having t
o disassemble the center section pulleys in the event wings are removed.
>
> Thanks.
>
> --
> Greg Bacon
> Prairie Home, MO
>
>
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: members in the news |
http://www.ourcoloradonews.com/castlerock/news/parker-doctor-rushed-in-afte
r-reno-air-crash/article_b182b832-fb5e-54fa-b541-50ece447f160.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CozyGirrrl(at)aol.com |
If you and the bird were on the same heading would you have to dive in
order to strike the bird?
Chrissi & Randi
_www.CozyGirrrl.com_ (http://www.cozygirrrl.com/)
CG Products, Custom Aircraft Hardware
Chairwomen, Sun-N-Fun Engine Workshop
In a message dated 11/28/2011 9:47:38 A.M. Central Standard Time,
timwillis01(at)gmail.com writes:
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Timothy Willis
Lowell,
Glad you are OK and the Piet only lightly damaged.
That would increase the pucker factor. Imagining a truly head-on
strike, nose-to-beak is terrible.
Sounds like you did all the right things.
regards,
Tim in central TX
do not archive
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Leading edge attachment |
My plywood IS the leading edge...all attached with T-88.
Michael Perez
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Aileron cable quick disconnect |
| From: | Greg Bacon <gbacon67(at)gmail.com> |
Thanks Jack and Jeff. This helps.
Greg Bacon
On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 8:48 AM, Jeff Wilson wrote:
> We just use a simple little "shackle". Cable from cockpit goes beyond
> center section into wing. Then between root rib and next rib cable meets
> cable from the aileron. Connect there with the shackle and provide
> inspection hole below junction.
> Turnbuckle for tension adjustment is on lower aileron horn for easy access.
>
> Jeff Wilson
> St. Louis, MO
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Nov 28, 2011, at 8:02 AM, Greg Bacon wrote:
>
> Does anyone have close-up photos of a simple aileron cable quick
> disconnect or product info for an off-the-shelf item?
>
> From <http://westcoastpiet.com>westcoastpiet.com photos, I see Jack
> Phillips used disconnects, but I can't make out enough detail. I think
> Corky may have used them as well.
>
> For future reference, the purpose for the disconnects is to avoid having
> to disassemble the center section pulleys in the event wings are removed.
>
> Thanks.
>
> --
> Greg Bacon
> Prairie Home, MO
>
>
> *
>
> ===================================http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
> >www.buildersbooks.com
> "http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ==================================
> >http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> ===================================ums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> ===================================http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ==================================
> *
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
--
Greg Bacon
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Aileron cable quick disconnect |
| From: | "skellytown flyer" <skellflyer1(at)yahoo.com> |
I made sets of plates like the connecting link on a bicycle chain. used 3/16" diameter
clevis pins and cotter pins through them. actually went to the trouble
of drilling out 1/4" stainless tubing and cutting short sleeves to eliminate
any wear on the pins and they were long enough to keep the side plates from being
tight against the cable thimbles.I made them to a length that allowed me to
eliminate the turnbuckle on the upper aileron cable- after crimping the nico's/
that way I got it close enough to hold them level with the trailing edges
of the wings.didn't save much weight but I am a tightwad. Raymond
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=359585#359585
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jason Holmes" <jholmes8(at)centurylink.net> |
| Subject: | Pietenpol Mid Air |
I just remembered reading a news story somewhere that the FAA has a
reporting website for bird strikes as they are trying to gather data. It
is: http://wildlife-mitigation.tc.faa.gov/wildlife/default.aspx
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pieti Lowell
Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2011 10:51 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol Mid Air
-->
Today was not the most enjoyable cool flight, Thought I would put a few
hours on the Old Ford, with heat from the radiator and a warm outfit.
I was traveling North, And all of a sudden a flock of Canadian Geese came
out of nowhere on a South path, I eased a slight left course to avoid the
flock and they decided to try a right quick turn.In order to avoid I did a
snap to the left, heard a loud bang, Something snapped, maybe a cable or
wood structure, didn't feel anything except a sharp jolt, I leveled and
tried to see anything that might be a serious problem. I Did a 180 and a
long long nerve racking flight back to the Airport, NO vibrating or odd
noises were detectable, taxied up to the hanger chopped the Ford and took a
look around. Nothing, tail feathers OK, Cables OK, Prop, OK, Wings looked
OK.I parked her in the Hanger and during the gas refueling, the Right Wing
Tip had a streak of red, running four and aft, Close inspection revealed a
broken end rib between the spars, Just the top was dented, If I had not made
a sharp turn that raised the right wing maybe I could have missed that
goose, but on the other hand there were many more to contend with. Felt
sorry for that poor bird.
Pieti Lowell
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=359520#359520
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Pieti Lowell" <Lowellcfrank(at)yahoo.com> |
My brother was flying under a flock of birds and when he got directly under the
flock for some reason the birds dove down, their instincts were to get away from
the predators, he got hit buy 3 birds from the top. Lesson one:Stay away from
flying things.
Pieti Lowell
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=359604#359604
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com> |
Glad you were not hurt. A bird strike is one scary event.
Took a bird through the front canopy of a T-34C one night at about 9500' AGL about
100 miles North of Corpus Christi, TX. It sounded like a shotgun went off
over my head. we got down okay and landed with a huge hole right in front of my
face (the student was under the hood in the back seat doing an instrument hop).
When the student asked me why the bird was out flying at night, I told him
that I guess the bird was out getting his night minimums. :0)
--------
Semper Fi,
Terry Hand
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=359609#359609
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Aileron cable quick disconnect |
| From: | Greg Bacon <gbacon67(at)gmail.com> |
Raymond,
I like your disconnect design. Drilling out the stainless tubing sounds
like quite a chore. With regard to eliminating the upper cable turnbuckle,
are you worried about a possible future need to adjust as the plane ages?
I guess you could simply make up shorter links. Also, where did you
locate your disconnect?
On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 6:18 PM, skellytown flyer wrote:
> skellflyer1(at)yahoo.com>
>
> I made sets of plates like the connecting link on a bicycle chain. used
> 3/16" diameter clevis pins and cotter pins through them. actually went to
> the trouble of drilling out 1/4" stainless tubing and cutting short sleeves
> to eliminate any wear on the pins and they were long enough to keep the
> side plates from being tight against the cable thimbles.I made them to a
> length that allowed me to eliminate the turnbuckle on the upper aileron
> cable- after crimping the nico's/ that way I got it close enough to hold
> them level with the trailing edges of the wings.didn't save much weight but
> I am a tightwad. Raymond
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=359585#359585
>
>
--
Greg Bacon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Just Two Days Left - Still Way Behind... |
Dear Listers,
There are just two more days left in this years List Fund Raiser. Over the last
few weeks I have received some really nice comments from members on what the
Lists have meant to them. I have included some of them below. Please read over
the comments and ponder on your own feelings about the Lists and the support
and camaraderie you have found here.
We are still way behind last year in terms of the number of contributions. I really
want to keep providing these services to the homebuilt community, but it
take resources. Since there's no advertising budget or deep pockets to keep
the operation a float, its solely your generosity during the Fund Raiser that
keeps things going. Please make a Contribution today.
If you've been putting off showing your support for the Lists, now is the time
to do it!
Make a contribution with a Credit Card or though PayPal at that Matronics Contribution
web site:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or, drop a check in the mail:
Matronics / Matt Dralle
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore, CA 94550
Thank you in advance for your support!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
==================== A Few List Member Comments =====================
I get a lot of useful information and satisfaction from belonging to
your groups. Somehow you foster a great sense of community without
the baggage that accompanies other lists.
Dave S.
We do appreciate you running the lists spam and advertising free.
Jeff P.
I am celebrating my first flight day and you and the lists deserve
a thanks since without it my build would have taken twice as long.
Chris L.
I enjoy the list. Have my morning coffee with it!
Buddy M.
Your lists are the best investment of my time and money, bar none,
when it comes to interfacing with my fellow amateur builders.
Owen B.
Keep it going!! Thanks for taking over.
Wallace J.
I enjoy the Pietenpol List a lot.
Malcolm Z.
Thanks for your great site! As a new CJ-6 owner, your web site is an
invaluable resource.
Ken B.
Great informational source.
Fred S.
Thanks for doing this!
Lance G.
Thank you for the service i do enjoy the many hours I use on line with
the banter/ serious technical items.
Noel G.
Thanks for the years of builder support.
Roy H.
Great forum!
Roger C.
Thank you VERY MUCH, Matt, for carrying on with this great service.
The "Europa" community really appreciates it. All the best, Svein - now
celebrating 10 years as a subscriber, I think!
Svein J.
Matt, I'm building a much nicer and safer airplane because of your efforts.
Robert D.
21 years for you 9 years for me on the Zenith lists. Could not imagine
building and flying without Matronics.
Brian U.
Thanks for ALL the hard work and time you put into maintaining these
forums. As an EAA Tech counselor I recommend them often.
Paul M.
This Pietenpol list is a huge part of the motivation that keeps me working
on my project. This has been a great place for meeting like minded folks
and getting help for the difficult parts.
Thomas S.
Thanks for the excellent service Matt.
Frank S.
Matt, I'm a Sonex building, but I have to say that the Piet group is without
a doubt the most interesting.
Ken M.
I can't tell you how much I appreciate the Piet List. This is one of my sanity
lifelines!
Daniel H.
Your site has provided us over the years with excellent connections to others
for advice. Good job!
Bob M.
Kolb List is my #1 source!
Henry V.
Matt, you do a great job with this site. I've been with it since the
beginning!
John M.
I am very grateful for all of your excellent work on the List.
Arthur L.
Thank you for the service you provide us all!
Nicholas C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matthijs de Groot <getijsem(at)zonnet.nl> |
| Subject: | Hi I'm new here. |
Hi I am Matthijs de Groot from Holland (Texel)
I got the Drawings in march this year.
So far I have build the ribs and the tail section.
Im planning to do the metal work this winter and start on the Ford A
motor I found pumping water at a farm in Holland.
Im hoping to find someone that has CAD Drawings of all the metal
fittings so I can have them cut by a friend here in Holland. I found a
Dutch company selling the 4130 steel.
For the rebuilding of my motor im looking for a( garage hand book)whit
all the tolerances so I can find out what is good and bad in my engine
so I can start making it like new.
I found a Bendix S4LN type nr 10-51-360-37 Magneto I can buy for
450,- is this a good option?
So 1 cad drawings metal fittings
2 detailed motor info ford A 1928
3 any info on magnetos(should I buy or look further).
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Hi I'm new here. |
| From: | helspersew(at)aol.com |
Hi Matthijs,
Welcome to the Piet list. There are others on this list who have already fo
rged the road of the CAD drawings for all the steel parts. Hopefully one of
them can pipe up and let you know how to proceed. A good resource for manu
als on the Ford is Snyder's Antique Auto. http://www.snydersantiqueauto.com
/
Remember, there is a wealth of knowledge if you search the Piet List archiv
es.
Good luck,
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN
-----Original Message-----
From: Matthijs de Groot <getijsem(at)zonnet.nl>
Sent: Tue, Nov 29, 2011 4:03 am
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Hi I'm new here.
>
Hi I am Matthijs de Groot from Holland (Texel)
got the Drawings in march this year.
o far I have build the ribs and the tail section.
m planning to do the metal work this winter and start on the Ford A
otor I found pumping water at a farm in Holland.
m hoping to find someone that has CAD Drawings of all the metal
ittings so I can have them cut by a friend here in Holland. I found a
utch company selling the 4130 steel.
or the rebuilding of my motor im looking for a( garage hand book)whit
ll the tolerances so I can find out what is good and bad in my engine
o I can start making it like new.
found a Bendix S4LN type nr 10-51-360-37 Magneto I can buy for
450,- is this a good option?
So 1 cad drawings metal fittings
2 detailed motor info ford A 1928
3 any info on magnetos(should I buy or look further).
-
-= -- Please Support Your Lists This Month --
-= (And Get Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!)
-
-= November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Click on
-= the Contribution link below to find out more about
-= this year's Terrific Free Incentive Gifts provided
-= by:
-=
-= * AeroElectric www.aeroelectric.com
-= * The Builder's Bookstore www.buildersbooks.com
-= * HomebuiltHELP www.homebuilthelp.com
-
-= List Contribution Web Site:
-
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
-
-= Thank you for your generous support!
-
-= -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
-
-========================
-= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum -
-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
-= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
-= Photoshare, and much much more:
-
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
-
-========================
-= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
-= Same great content also available via the Web Forums!
-
-= --> http://forums.matronics.com
-
-========================
-= - List Contribution Web Site -
-= Thank you for your generous support!
-= -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
-========================
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Hi I'm new here. |
| From: | Hans Van Der Voort <hvandervoo(at)aol.com> |
Welkom Matthijs,
Nice to see another Pietenpol in Holland
Vroege Vogels in Lelystad has one in their collection. http://earlybirdsmus
eum.nl/en/pietenpol-aircamper
And their is one being build in Hoogeveen http://www.dutchnostalgicwings.nl
/
You can substitute 4130 with DIN 1.7218 steel, same composition but to a Ge
rman standard.
And perhaps easier to obtain in Europe
Have Fun Building and Flying.
Hans van der Voort
NX15KV
Waller, TX
-----Original Message-----
From: Matthijs de Groot <getijsem(at)zonnet.nl>
Sent: Tue, Nov 29, 2011 4:03 am
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Hi I'm new here.
>
Hi I am Matthijs de Groot from Holland (Texel)
got the Drawings in march this year.
o far I have build the ribs and the tail section.
m planning to do the metal work this winter and start on the Ford A
otor I found pumping water at a farm in Holland.
m hoping to find someone that has CAD Drawings of all the metal
ittings so I can have them cut by a friend here in Holland. I found a
utch company selling the 4130 steel.
or the rebuilding of my motor im looking for a( garage hand book)whit
ll the tolerances so I can find out what is good and bad in my engine
o I can start making it like new.
found a Bendix S4LN type nr 10-51-360-37 Magneto I can buy for
450,- is this a good option?
So 1 cad drawings metal fittings
2 detailed motor info ford A 1928
3 any info on magnetos(should I buy or look further).
-
-= -- Please Support Your Lists This Month --
-= (And Get Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!)
-
-= November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Click on
-= the Contribution link below to find out more about
-= this year's Terrific Free Incentive Gifts provided
-= by:
-=
-= * AeroElectric www.aeroelectric.com
-= * The Builder's Bookstore www.buildersbooks.com
-= * HomebuiltHELP www.homebuilthelp.com
-
-= List Contribution Web Site:
-
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
-
-= Thank you for your generous support!
-
-= -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
-
-========================
-= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum -
-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
-= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
-= Photoshare, and much much more:
-
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
-
-========================
-= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
-= Same great content also available via the Web Forums!
-
-= --> http://forums.matronics.com
-
-========================
-= - List Contribution Web Site -
-= Thank you for your generous support!
-= -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
-========================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "BYD" <billsayre(at)ymail.com> |
Is it just me, or do other builders find themselves stepping on the cord to the
iron as they iron the fabric on their project? You would think after once or
twice a human would learn to avoid doing the same stupid thing over and over.
But no...... Sheesh!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=359773#359773
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | V Groah <vgroah(at)hotmail.com> |
You are lucky to be far enough along for that to be a problem. Count your
blessings. Vic
do not acrhive
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Ironing problem
> From: billsayre(at)ymail.com
> Date: Tue=2C 29 Nov 2011 15:58:25 -0800
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>
>
> Is it just me=2C or do other builders find themselves stepping on the cor
d to the iron as they iron the fabric on their project? You would think aft
er once or twice a human would learn to avoid doing the same stupid thing o
ver and over. But no...... Sheesh!
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=359773#359773
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "C N Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Ironing problem |
Put yourself a hook above the work and use an extention cord heavy enough to
carry the amperage. Hook the cord in the hook to keep the cord off the
floor.
----- Original Message -----
From: "BYD" <billsayre(at)ymail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2011 6:58 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Ironing problem
>
> Is it just me, or do other builders find themselves stepping on the cord
> to the iron as they iron the fabric on their project? You would think
> after once or twice a human would learn to avoid doing the same stupid
> thing over and over. But no...... Sheesh!
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=359773#359773
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "bender" <jfaith(at)solairusaviation.com> |
OK.. its a little shaky... the video that is..
but a big day.. only problem i see is the antique tach seems to be reading twice
the speed
i'll hook up an electric tach and try again.... and adjust the idle
that homebuilt prop isn't shaking...good sign
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xh9qwIzD7V8&feature=youtu.be
jeff :D
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=359785#359785
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
Man, does that sound SWEET! Great job, Jeff. When will we see this one at
Brodhead?
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of bender
Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2011 9:28 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: first run
OK.. its a little shaky... the video that is..
but a big day.. only problem i see is the antique tach seems to be reading
twice the speed
i'll hook up an electric tach and try again.... and adjust the idle
that homebuilt prop isn't shaking...good sign
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xh9qwIzD7V8&feature=youtu.be
jeff :D
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=359785#359785
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Hi I'm new here. |
| From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
Welcome Matthijs! Look forward to reading about your progress.
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=359789#359789
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Boyer <boyerjrb(at)comcast.net> |
OK.. its a little shaky... the video that is..
Hey Jeff,
It sounds and looks really good.=C2- I like the open access to the right
side of the fuselage.
Cheers,
Jim B.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Ironing problem |
| From: | "BYD" <billsayre(at)ymail.com> |
Chuck Campbell wrote:
> Put yourself a hook above the work and use an extention cord heavy enough to
> carry the amperage. Hook the cord in the hook to keep the cord off the
> floor.
I'd probably hang myself!!!
I do feel fortunate to be at this point though.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=359794#359794
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gene Rambo <generambo(at)msn.com> |
If the tach is reading double=2C you don't have a tach built for an engine
but probably a direct drive tach for a piece of machinery. Engine tach's t
ypically run off of the cam=2C 1/2 crankshaft speed. There are plenty of o
ld tachs out there without haveing to go electronic. Gene
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: first run
> From: jfaith(at)solairusaviation.com
> Date: Tue=2C 29 Nov 2011 18:28:10 -0800
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>
om>
>
> OK.. its a little shaky... the video that is..
> but a big day.. only problem i see is the antique tach seems to be readi
ng twice the speed
> i'll hook up an electric tach and try again.... and adjust the idle
> that homebuilt prop isn't shaking...good sign
>
> www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xh9qwIzD7V8&feature=youtu.be
>
>
>
>
> jeff :D
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=359785#359785
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "BYD" <billsayre(at)ymail.com> |
Congratulations! Sounds great!
What type of ignition are you running?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=359795#359795
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "aerocarjake" <flight.jake(at)gmail.com> |
VERY NICE......!
--------
Jake Schultz - curator,
Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=359800#359800
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | [Please Read] - Last Official Day of List Fund Raiser! |
Dear Listers,
Its November 30th and that means a couple of things. Its my birthday again, 48
of them, in fact! But it also means that its that last official day of the
Matronics Email List Fund Raiser! If you been jones'n over one of those really
nice incentive gifts now is the time to jump on one!!
If you've been meaning to make a Contribution this month but have been putting
it off for some reason, NOW is the time!
I will be posting the List of Contributors in a few days, so you'll probably want
to be known as a person that supported the Lists!
I want to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution this year in
support of our Lists. It is your generosity that keeps this operation running
and I don't ever forget it. Hopefully everyone feels the same.
Below are a few more of the nice comments from Listers I've received this year.
Please read them over and see if you don't agree.
The List Contribution Web Site is fast and easy. Please support our habit by making
your Contribution right now:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or, by dropping a personal check in the mail to:
Matt Dralle / Matronics
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
Thank you to all in advance!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
==================== A Few More List Member Comments =====================
I never would have ended up with the great flying airplane I have without
the help of people on the Pietenpol list. Thanks for giving us the medium
to communicate our questions, tips and suggestions.
Matt P.
Thanks for the hard work and maintaining the site commercial free. Good
luck for the future and this site has been a source of great friendship.
Peter B.
It is a great resource.
Jim G.
Thanks so much for your continuing support of the homebuilt community.
Gerald A.
You are doing an outstanding job running the list's. Keep it going.
Bill V.
Thanks for keeping this valuable information source going. Best of all
the forums.
George A.
Another Great year on the RV-List!
Thomas E.
Still the best source of information (& opinion) for builders on a wide
range of issues.
Martin H.
Matt, thanks for hosting and maintaining the lists!
Rumen D.
It is a great resource.
Bryan R.
Thanks for your continuing interest in Van's RV8 kitplanes.
Peter C.
I'm no longer building or flying but like to keep in touch with the current
generation of builders. Best wishes to a great list system.
Gerry C.
A great list that is most useful for builders.
Graham H.
Thanks for this wonderful tool!
Ralph C.
Thanks for a great service to the experimental aviation community.
Douglas D.
Great topics and loads of useful info keep the subject matter relevant.
George H.
Thanks for keeping this going.
Richard R.
Great facility and well managed.
Victor F.
Thanks for a great service.
John D.
Thank you for you time and efforts they have made Aviation a better
place for everyone.
Jim W.
I still enjoy getting the list in the morning.
Don M.
You provide a great resource.
David M.
You have probably saved a few necks over the years.
Robert F.
Thank you for being there.
Benjamin B.
You perform a great service.
Bruce M.
Thank you for providing this invaluable resource.
William D.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Ironing problem |
| From: | helspersew(at)aol.com |
Just be glad its the iron cord. Several times I stepped on the rib stitch c
ord and.....rrrrrrriiiipp! Dang! Another patch!
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN
-----Original Message-----
From: BYD <billsayre(at)ymail.com>
Sent: Tue, Nov 29, 2011 6:01 pm
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Ironing problem
Is it just me, or do other builders find themselves stepping on the cord to
the
ron as they iron the fabric on their project? You would think after once o
r
wice a human would learn to avoid doing the same stupid thing over and over
.
ut no...... Sheesh!
ead this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=359773#359773
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | helspersew(at)aol.com |
Jeff,
Congratulations!!! Beautiful sounds!! Does your homemade prop make a lot-o
-wind? You can get a small gearbox made by www.bobsspeedometer.com to compe
nsate. Nice ignition system. Hey, how did you get that N number 1929F? I tr
ied every which way to get anything with 1929 in it for years. You dawg!
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN
-----Original Message-----
From: bender <jfaith(at)solairusaviation.com>
Sent: Tue, Nov 29, 2011 8:31 pm
Subject: Pietenpol-List: first run
>
OK.. its a little shaky... the video that is..
ut a big day.. only problem i see is the antique tach seems to be reading
wice the speed
'll hook up an electric tach and try again.... and adjust the idle
hat homebuilt prop isn't shaking...good sign
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xh9qwIzD7V8&feature=youtu.be
eff :D
ead this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=359785#359785
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Congratulations Jeff! |
Congrats Jeff!
Truly a big day. Running one's engine for the first time is a big
motivational boost, especially when it's mounted on the fuse. Great plane!!
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Welcome Matthijs! |
Welcome Mattijs to the world of Pietenpols!!
Seems like a lot of Hollanders are attracted to this beautiful little plane,
I'm half Dutch myself. Am going back next fall to visit some family as a
matter of fact.
As has been mentioned, the archives are a great place to start researching
your questions. Another suggestion would be to contact the Brodhead
Pietenpol Association and inquire about purchasing back issue magazines
(magazines from previous years). There are still some people building and
flying Fords, but back in the eighties and nineties there were a LOT, so
there are many articles pertaining specifically to the Ford.
You can contact them at bpan(at)tds.net
Pretty much any part or accessory you need for that engine is available in
the states. Feel free to let us know what you are having a hard time
finding and I'm sure some of us with some Ford experience will be happy to
help point you in the right direction.
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "bender" <jfaith(at)solairusaviation.com> |
Thanks guys..
I guess i got lucky Dan... reserved it last year..i played in the faa site for
a long time to find the number that fit
My tach was new old stock..dated 1931 and i was told it was from a tiger moth...i
got it and the airspeed from the same guy... maybe the Moth had another gear
to slow it down.. i was just going to hook up an electric tach till i got a
speed reducer for the mechanical one and see where i was running.
i dig the sound... my buddy here at work expected it to be louder
the ignition is a dual point with the coil switcher like the corvair guys use..
all grins here
jeff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=359899#359899
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Congratulations Jeff! |
| From: | "bender" <jfaith(at)solairusaviation.com> |
Thanks Douwe...
i really should come and see you someday.. you're so close
jeff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=359903#359903
________________________________________________________________________________
Group,
Saw this ad in our local online classifieds. O-235-C for sale $1500. I
know nothing about it or have any affiliation...Just passing it on.
http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=218&ad=18258480&cat=151&lpid=&se
arch
Brian
SLC-UT
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Hi I'm new here. |
| From: | "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca> |
Welcome to the group, Matthijs.
Since nobody else has mentioned it yet, I'll caution against making the metal fittings
before the wooden structure is built.
Many builders have thought the same idea before, but, because each Air Camper is
hand-built by different individuals, each Air Camper will be slightly different,
and therefore, the metal fittings will also need to be made to fit that actual
plane which they will be used on. The differences will be small, but probably
big enough to make many pre-fabricated parts useless. The fittings MIGHT
fit if built as-drawn, but it is highly likely that many will not.
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=359909#359909
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "TOM STINEMETZE" <TOMS(at)mcpcity.com> |
I have just been in contact with Mike Cuy about his famous "How I Built My
Pietenpol" video that has been such an inspiration to many of us.
Unfortunately, Mike's master VHS tape has bitten the dust, kicked the
bucket, gone to the laaast roundup, etc. and he is unable to manufacture
any more DVD's. I got his permission to send a help message out to the
group to see if anyone has one of the new DVD versions, or for that matter
one of the old VHS versions, and would be willing to copy and share. I
have two of the old VHS versions that, unfortunatly, are not usable any
more or I would offer to do this myself.
Any takers?
Thanks,
Tom Stinemetze
N328X
________________________________________________________________________________
I have a copy of his DVD.
Brian
SLC-UT
801-882-0213
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of TOM
STINEMETZE
Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 10:05 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Mike Cuy Video
I have just been in contact with Mike Cuy about his famous "How I Built
My Pietenpol" video that has been such an inspiration to many of us.
Unfortunately, Mike's master VHS tape has bitten the dust, kicked the
bucket, gone to the laaast roundup, etc. and he is unable to manufacture
any more DVD's. I got his permission to send a help message out to the
group to see if anyone has one of the new DVD versions, or for that
matter one of the old VHS versions, and would be willing to copy and
share. I have two of the old VHS versions that, unfortunatly, are not
usable any more or I would offer to do this myself.
Any takers?
Thanks,
Tom Stinemetze
N328X
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Hi I'm new here. |
| From: | helspersew(at)aol.com |
I agree Bill. I had to make my straight-axle landing gear fittings about 4
times each, and that was AFTER I had the gear legs made.
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Church <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca>
Sent: Wed, Nov 30, 2011 10:42 am
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Hi I'm new here.
>
Welcome to the group, Matthijs.
Since nobody else has mentioned it yet, I'll caution against making the met
al
ittings before the wooden structure is built.
any builders have thought the same idea before, but, because each Air Campe
r is
and-built by different individuals, each Air Camper will be slightly differ
ent,
nd therefore, the metal fittings will also need to be made to fit that actu
al
lane which they will be used on. The differences will be small, but probabl
y
ig enough to make many pre-fabricated parts useless. The fittings MIGHT fit
if
uilt as-drawn, but it is highly likely that many will not.
Bill C.
ead this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=359909#359909
-
-= -- Please Support Your Lists This Month --
-= (And Get Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!)
-
-= November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Click on
-= the Contribution link below to find out more about
-= this year's Terrific Free Incentive Gifts provided
-= by:
-=
-= * AeroElectric www.aeroelectric.com
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-
-= List Contribution Web Site:
-
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
-
-= Thank you for your generous support!
-
-= -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
-
-========================
-= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum -
-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
-= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
-= Photoshare, and much much more:
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-= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
-
-========================
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-= Same great content also available via the Web Forums!
-
-= --> http://forums.matronics.com
-
-========================
-= - List Contribution Web Site -
-= Thank you for your generous support!
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-= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
-========================
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Leading edge attachment |
| From: | "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca> |
Dave,
Making your leading edge from 3-foot pieces of aluminum will not prevent oil canning
with temperature changes. The aluminum will expand and contract at the same
rate, whether 14 feet long, or 1 foot long. Leaving small gaps between shorter
pieces will probably help to reduce the buckling a bit, though. Not too sure
about epoxying sheet aluminum to wood, either. I'm pretty sure that bond will
fail, sooner than later.
But your comment that really got my attention was that you used that method on
a different plane, and it works. Well, I suppose it does work - especially since
that's what the plans for THAT aircraft call for.
I recall reading about people having aluminum leading edge cladding on their Pietenpol,
and wishing they were plywood instead (aluminum was wavier, and less
strong). I just don't see any advantages to using aluminum on the Pietenpol wing.
Bill C.
> Mt LE are .016 aluminum attached with nails and epoxy.
> They are in 3 ft sections ( to prevent oil canning with temp changes)
> I used this on my SA-300 , works.
> Dave NX1QZ
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=359937#359937
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Nailing ribs to spars |
| From: | "tdudley(at)umn.edu" <tdudley(at)umn.edu> |
Last month the question was raised about epoxy vs. nailing the ribs to the spars.
It seemed to be that either method was acceptable and the responses given
were in favor of nails.
I am using the 4-3/4" X 3/4" solid spars. The ribs are built to plans (1/2" wide
X 1/4" thick spruce attachment to the spar).
I'll ask this question after reviewing the archives and after reading the Bingelis
books-- are 20 gauge nails appropriate here or do you use 18 gauge, or does
it really even matter since the difference is so slight? To get 3X the thickness
of the surface wood (i.e., 1/4"), I plan on using nails 1" in length. I
know it's another of my "soft" questions, but I was just interested in knowing
what others have done that has worked.
Having asked this, I promise I will not ask how to hold the hammer to place the
nails.
Tom
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=359964#359964
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Clif Dawson" <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Nailing ribs to spars |
That's what this is for.......
http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=32052&cat=1,53193&ap=1
Cuts down on Newfy Dimples too. :-)
Clif
>
> Having asked this, I promise I will not ask how to hold the hammer to
> place the nails.
>
> Tom
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Mike Cuy Video |
| From: | "bubbleboy" <scott.dawson3(at)bigpond.com> |
I sent a WAV copy of both his VHS tapes. I converted them to a WAV file so anybody
could watch them around the world.
Scotty
--------
Tamworth, Australia
Building a Corvair Powered Pietenpol Air Camper
www.scottyspietenpol.com
Rudder, Vert stab, Elevators, Hor Stab and Ribs built...About to start fuselage...Corvair
engine at Roy's Garage waiting to be modified.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=359985#359985
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack" <jack(at)textors.com> |
| Subject: | Nailing ribs to spars |
Tom, the only nails I used were to keep the caps from sliding when gluing.
Here is a picture of a trial spar piece I glued up.
http://textors.com/sawdust_054.jpg
Jack
DSM
NX1929T
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
tdudley(at)umn.edu
Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 9:25 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Nailing ribs to spars
Last month the question was raised about epoxy vs. nailing the ribs to the
spars. It seemed to be that either method was acceptable and the responses
given were in favor of nails.
I am using the 4-3/4" X 3/4" solid spars. The ribs are built to plans (1/2"
wide X 1/4" thick spruce attachment to the spar).
I'll ask this question after reviewing the archives and after reading the
Bingelis books-- are 20 gauge nails appropriate here or do you use 18 gauge,
or does it really even matter since the difference is so slight? To get 3X
the thickness of the surface wood (i.e., 1/4"), I plan on using nails 1" in
length. I know it's another of my "soft" questions, but I was just
interested in knowing what others have done that has worked.
Having asked this, I promise I will not ask how to hold the hammer to place
the nails.
Tom
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=359964#359964
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matthijs de Groot <getijsem(at)zonnet.nl> |
| Subject: | Thank you for thi info so far. |
Thanks guys
To Hans great tip Din 1.7218 it is .
To Dan & Brett The motor info was exact what I was looking for. But I
like to know the date of the pdf file you included .
Mi motor is the 1928 version whit the oil pump out side the oil pan .
I here they changed the specs in 1930. So is this file pre or after
1930?Is it true there is a difference?
To Bill good tip but I already had in mind to not have every thing cut
in one go .Some parts will fit for sure. Il wait whit the rest.
To all, Im still looking for those CAD drawings of the metal.
I found a "book" called How I make wood propellers by E.Alvin Schubert.
On page 71 till 73 it shows the drawings for a aircamper A ford prop.
Did anyone build this prop? And is it any good? Im thinking of making
this.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | airlion <airlion(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Nailing ribs to spars |
I will be using a pin nailer with stainless steel pin nails. Cheers, Gardiner
--- On Wed, 11/30/11, tdudley(at)umn.edu wrote:
> From: tdudley(at)umn.edu <tdudley(at)umn.edu>
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Nailing ribs to spars
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Wednesday, November 30, 2011, 10:25 PM
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted
> by: "tdudley(at)umn.edu"
>
>
> Last month the question was raised about epoxy vs. nailing
> the ribs to the spars. It seemed to be that either
> method was acceptable and the responses given were in favor
> of nails.
>
> I am using the 4-3/4" X 3/4" solid spars. The ribs
> are built to plans (1/2" wide X 1/4" thick spruce attachment
> to the spar).
>
> I'll ask this question after reviewing the archives and
> after reading the Bingelis books-- are 20 gauge nails
> appropriate here or do you use 18 gauge, or does it really
> even matter since the difference is so slight? To get
> 3X the thickness of the surface wood (i.e., 1/4"), I plan on
> using nails 1" in length. I know it's another of my
> "soft" questions, but I was just interested in knowing what
> others have done that has worked.
>
> Having asked this, I promise I will not ask how to hold the
> hammer to place the nails.
>
> Tom
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=359964#359964
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Lists This Month --
> Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!)
> Raiser. Click on
> out more about
> Gifts provided
> www.aeroelectric.com
> www.buildersbooks.com
> www.homebuilthelp.com
> -Matt
> Dralle, List Admin.
> Email Forum -
> FAQ,
> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
> List Contribution Web Site -
> -Matt
> Dralle, List Admin.
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Nailing ribs to spars |
| From: | Greg Bacon <gbacon67(at)gmail.com> |
Tom,
I used 18 gauge 3/4" SS brads on a 3/4" spar. A 1" brad may protrude
through the spar a bit if you sink one in a little deeper in a softer piece
of wood. Your strength is in the T88, not the brads. The brads are just
for keeping the rib in place until the T88 cures. After nailing the rib
in place, apply light clamping pressure for at least 24 hours. And really,
the clamping probably isn't even necessary. The T88 bonding strength with
just the pressure from the brads is likely more than enough.
Charlie Rubeck used staples from a desk stapler for holding rib gussets in
place until the T88 cured. He would then remove the staples when done.
Here's a "hammer holding" tip for fun - Try holding the brad with needle
nose pliers. You will be able to see better and won't smash your fingers :)
Have fun,
Greg Bacon
Prairie Home, MO
On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 6:59 AM, airlion wrote:
>
> I will be using a pin nailer with stainless steel pin nails. Cheers,
> Gardiner
>
> --- On Wed, 11/30/11, tdudley(at)umn.edu wrote:
>
> > From: tdudley(at)umn.edu <tdudley(at)umn.edu>
> > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Nailing ribs to spars
> > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> > Date: Wednesday, November 30, 2011, 10:25 PM
> > --> Pietenpol-List message posted
> > by: "tdudley(at)umn.edu"
> >
> >
> > Last month the question was raised about epoxy vs. nailing
> > the ribs to the spars. It seemed to be that either
> > method was acceptable and the responses given were in favor
> > of nails.
> >
> > I am using the 4-3/4" X 3/4" solid spars. The ribs
> > are built to plans (1/2" wide X 1/4" thick spruce attachment
> > to the spar).
> >
> > I'll ask this question after reviewing the archives and
> > after reading the Bingelis books-- are 20 gauge nails
> > appropriate here or do you use 18 gauge, or does it really
> > even matter since the difference is so slight? To get
> > 3X the thickness of the surface wood (i.e., 1/4"), I plan on
> > using nails 1" in length. I know it's another of my
> > "soft" questions, but I was just interested in knowing what
> > others have done that has worked.
> >
> > Having asked this, I promise I will not ask how to hold the
> > hammer to place the nails.
> >
> > Tom
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=359964#359964
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Lists This Month --
> > Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!)
> > Raiser. Click on
> > out more about
> > Gifts provided
> > www.aeroelectric.com
> > www.buildersbooks.com
> > www.homebuilthelp.com
> > -Matt
> > Dralle, List Admin.
> > Email Forum -
> > FAQ,
> > - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
> > List Contribution Web Site -
> > -Matt
> > Dralle, List Admin.
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
--
Greg Bacon
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | aluminum - stiffening ribs |
| From: | Greg Bacon <gbacon67(at)gmail.com> |
Gents,
Where would a guy go to get stiffening ribs rolled into sheet aluminum?
Would a HVAC duct shop be able to do this?
Thanks,
--
Greg Bacon
Prairie Home, MO
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: aluminum - stiffening ribs |
| From: | Hans Van Der Voort <hvandervoo(at)aol.com> |
Greg,
Most sheet metal shops should have a "bead roller" if that is what you refe
ring to.
Just make sure they use the proper bending radius, most don't bother with t
his and your corners will be to sharp.
With resulting fatigue cracks developing in time.
Harbour freight has a bead roller for sale, not cheap anymore.
But this one needs modification to avoid the sharp corners.
BR
Hans
NX15KV
-----Original Message-----
From: Greg Bacon <gbacon67(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Thu, Dec 1, 2011 8:11 am
Subject: Pietenpol-List: aluminum - stiffening ribs
Gents,
Where would a guy go to get stiffening ribs rolled into sheet aluminum? Wo
uld a HVAC duct shop be able to do this?
Thanks,
--
Greg Bacon
Prairie Home, MO
-
-= -- Please Support Your Lists This Month --
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-
-= November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Click on
-= the Contribution link below to find out more about
-= this year's Terrific Free Incentive Gifts provided
-= by:
-
-= * AeroElectric www.aeroelectric.com
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________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Nailing ribs to spars |
| From: | "womenfly2" <Love2Fly.KAP(at)gmail.com> |
Nails are just clamps for applying pressure to a glue join, they are not structural
components.
Nailing ribs in-place is only done to hold them in position for stitching to the
covering. Yes, there is also the weave lacing, top to bottom cap-strips, to
keep the rib from twisting under load too.
After the covering is stitched to the ribs, the ribs should not move. So nailing
or gluing is just acting as a temporary clamp in-away.
The rib cap-strips should fit snug to the spar so it can transfer the load directly
to it. Most metal ribs on older planes are only tacked or screwed to the
spar, again for the same purpose.
A nail just longer enough to hold the rib in-place would be fine.
--------
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=360009#360009
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Nailing ribs to spars |
| From: | "dwilson" <marwilson(at)charter.net> |
Agree that the nails are only used to prevent the ribs from sliding along the spars.
After the leading edge is attached and the fabric is rib stitched the ribs
will not be able to move along the spars. I used 1 inch long cement coated
brads from Wicks. Also found a nice tool to squeeze the nails into the spar.
Dan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=360015#360015
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/glazing_point_plier_149.png
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Daniel Engelkenjohn" <mushface1(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: aluminum - stiffening ribs |
Kent White put a stiffening X in the sides of a gas tank he was building
at Oshkosh several years back by using a piece of medium density
fiberboard with grooves routed into it. The router bit was a
3/4=9D round end bit and it was a long narrow X. He then clamped
the aluminum sheet to the fiberboard and used a small air hammer, like
an air muffler chisel, with something like a rivet tool with a plastic
tip that he sells and just went down one groove and then the other.
Slick as cat poop on linoleum!
From: Greg Bacon
Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2011 8:08 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: aluminum - stiffening ribs
Gents,
Where would a guy go to get stiffening ribs rolled into sheet aluminum?
Would a HVAC duct shop be able to do this?
Thanks,
--
Greg Bacon
Prairie Home, MO
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Gaston <design(at)aerocorpinc.com> |
I have a GN-1 project for sale. Complete rib set built, tail feathers
built, fuselage sides built. All wood necessary to complete, including
spars. All wood came from Aircraft Spruce. Laser cut 4130 fittings.
Continental A-65-8 with carb, mags,hub, and logs, on engine stand. For
details, just e-mail me. I would prefer not to part this out. $4,000.00
for all. I am located in Norwalk, ohio. Thank you, Dan Gaston.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "C N Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Nailing ribs to spars |
Yeah. I used 1/2-inch nails from ACS. If you don't drive them all the way
in, they can be removed after the glue cures. Really no need to. It takes
a million of them to have any weight to speak of.
----- Original Message -----
From: "womenfly2" <Love2Fly.KAP(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2011 11:58 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Nailing ribs to spars
>
> Nails are just clamps for applying pressure to a glue join, they are not
> structural components.
>
> Nailing ribs in-place is only done to hold them in position for stitching
> to the covering. Yes, there is also the weave lacing, top to bottom
> cap-strips, to keep the rib from twisting under load too.
>
> After the covering is stitched to the ribs, the ribs should not move. So
> nailing or gluing is just acting as a temporary clamp in-away.
>
> The rib cap-strips should fit snug to the spar so it can transfer the load
> directly to it. Most metal ribs on older planes are only tacked or screwed
> to the spar, again for the same purpose.
>
> A nail just longer enough to hold the rib in-place would be fine.
>
> --------
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=360009#360009
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack" <jack(at)textors.com> |
| Subject: | eBay Item Baffle Cowling |
http://www.ebay.com/itm/170739440427?item=170739440427&viewitem=&sspagename
ADME:B:SS:MOTORS:1123&vxp=mtr
Jack
DSM
NX1929T
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Gaston <design(at)aerocorpinc.com> |
I have a GN-1 project for sale. Complete rib set built, tail feathers
built, fuselage sides built. All wood necessary to complete, including
spars. All wood came from Aircraft Spruce. Laser cut 4130 fittings.
Continental A-65-8 with carb, mags,hub, and logs, on engine stand. For
details, just e-mail me. I would prefer not to part this out. $4,000.00
for all. I am located in Norwalk, ohio. Thank you, Dan Gaston.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Gaston <design(at)aerocorpinc.com> |
| Subject: | GN-1 PROJECT FOR SALE |
I have a GN-1 project for sale. Complete rib set built, tail feathers
built, fuselage sides built. All wood necessary to complete, including
spars. All wood came from Aircraft Spruce. Laser cut 4130 fittings.
Continental A-65-8 with carb, mags,hub,and logs, on engine stand. For
details, just e-mail me. I would prefer not to part this out. $4,000.00
for all. I am located in Norwalk, ohio. I will try here a few more
times before going to Barnstormers, just wanted to give the home crowd
first chance.Thank you, Dan Gaston.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | GN-1 PROJECT FOR SALE |
I'm surprised nobody has jumped on this one. The engine alone would be worth
$2500 (depending on condition) and the wood and fittings would make up the
rest. Sounds like a great deal to me...
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
Flying Squirrel N2069Z "Rocket"
Medford, OR
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "C N Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> |
| Subject: | Re: GN-1 PROJECT FOR SALE |
Oscar, I think most of the people on the list are far enough along that they
can't throw away what they have and start in on another's project. If I
were finished with my Piet, I might consider buying that project to complete
for sale. Maybe someone will want it. Chuck
No need to archive!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2011 11:24 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: GN-1 PROJECT FOR SALE
>
>
> I'm surprised nobody has jumped on this one. The engine alone would be
> worth
> $2500 (depending on condition) and the wood and fittings would make up the
> rest. Sounds like a great deal to me...
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
> Flying Squirrel N2069Z "Rocket"
> Medford, OR
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | A-65 exhaust gasket |
| From: | Andrew Eldredge <andrew.eldredge(at)gmail.com> |
Does the bump on the exhaust gasket go toward the exhaust manifold flange
or toward the cylinder?
--
Andrew Eldredge
Provo, UT
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: A-65 exhaust gasket |
| From: | Andrew Eldredge <andrew.eldredge(at)gmail.com> |
cylinder, got it,
save forever...
--
Andrew Eldredge
Provo, UT
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Gaston <design(at)aerocorpinc.com> |
| Subject: | GN-1 PROJECT FOR SALE |
I have a GN-1 project for sale. Complete rib set built, tail feathers
built, fuselage sides built. All wood necessary to complete, including
spars. All wood came from Aircraft Spruce. Laser cut 4130 fittings.
Continental A-65-8 with carb, mags,hub,and logs, on engine stand. For
details and pictures, just e-mail me. I would prefer not to part this
out. $4,000.00 for all. I am located in Norwalk, ohio. This is the last
time I'll post this here, I'm sure you're all getting tired of seeing
it.Thank you, Dan Gaston.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | A-65 exhaust gasket |
>From my A&P:
>It doesn't matter. Place the gasket in the nearest trash container
>and buy the good gaskets. Then you don't have to ask the question.
>Those cheap stamped gaskets and the good RAPCO exhaust gaskets
>both cost $1.25 ea at Aircraft Spuce. Buy the good ones.
>I won't use the others.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
Flying Squirrel N2069Z "Rocket"
Medford, OR
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Yocum <yocum137(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: A-65 exhaust gasket |
I stand corrected. Per the installation guide printed at ACS for the
blo-proof gaskets currently being discussed:
"2 gaskets used per cylinder, with raised beads interlocked facing the
exhaust stack flange..."
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/eppages/airbornesolidcopperbloproofgaskets.php
And the RAPCO gasket Oscar's A&P recommends:
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/eppages/rapcoexhaustgas.php
The reason I didn't buy the spiral wound RAPCO gasket is because I would
have had to trim it for one of the bolts to fit, and I was lazy.
Note to self - check the exhaust gaskets for leaks next time I go flying...
On 12/07/2011 11:00 AM, Oscar Zuniga wrote:
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Oscar Zuniga
>
>
>> From my A&P:
>
>> It doesn't matter. Place the gasket in the nearest trash container
>> and buy the good gaskets. Then you don't have to ask the question.
>> Those cheap stamped gaskets and the good RAPCO exhaust gaskets
>> both cost $1.25 ea at Aircraft Spuce. Buy the good ones.
>> I won't use the others.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: A-65 exhaust gasket |
| From: | Andrew Eldredge <andrew.eldredge(at)gmail.com> |
This discussion has inspired me to look for the installation guide for the
parts I bought...
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/pdf/GasketInsert.pdf
It mentions two per cylinder may be used if desired, and that they should
be re-torqued after a hot run. That seems like a good idea. I didn't buy
enough of them to use two per cylinder,
Speaking of exhaust leaks, I'm no fan of CO poisoning, and it would be a
poor habit to develop to be permissive in this regard, but with the open
cockpit, and the cylinder heads in the breeze rather than under a cowling,
Is there much difference between exhaust leaking out at the head vs. at the
end of the pipe a foot away give or take?
I suppose another issue may be heating components near the head. What are
the other risks?
Andrew
On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 10:30 AM, Dan Yocum wrote:
>
> I stand corrected. Per the installation guide printed at ACS for the
> blo-proof gaskets currently being discussed:
>
> "2 gaskets used per cylinder, with raised beads interlocked facing the
> exhaust stack flange..."
>
> http://www.aircraftspruce.com/**catalog/eppages/**
> airbornesolidcopperbloproofgas**kets.php<http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/eppages/airbornesolidcopperbloproofgaskets.php>
>
> And the RAPCO gasket Oscar's A&P recommends:
>
> http://www.aircraftspruce.com/**catalog/eppages/**rapcoexhaustgas.php>
>
> The reason I didn't buy the spiral wound RAPCO gasket is because I would
> have had to trim it for one of the bolts to fit, and I was lazy.
>
> Note to self - check the exhaust gaskets for leaks next time I go flying...
>
>
> On 12/07/2011 11:00 AM, Oscar Zuniga wrote:
>
>> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Oscar Zuniga> >
>>
>>
>> From my A&P:
>>>
>>
>> It doesn't matter. Place the gasket in the nearest trash container
>>> and buy the good gaskets. Then you don't have to ask the question.
>>> Those cheap stamped gaskets and the good RAPCO exhaust gaskets
>>> both cost $1.25 ea at Aircraft Spuce. Buy the good ones.
>>> I won't use the others.
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
--
Andrew Eldredge
Provo, UT
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Was A-65 exhaust gasket, now brass exhaust nuts |
| From: | helspersew(at)aol.com |
Speaking of exhaust gaskets:
I have lost, on more than one occasion, some of those brass exhaust hold-on
nuts. Is there any kind of goo that can be put on those threads to keep th
ose nuts on there in that very hot location?
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Yocum <yocum137(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: A-65 exhaust gasket |
The issue is if there is a leak at the exhaust/engine union, the hot
exhaust gases could eat through the aluminum engine block and that would
be no fun to fix.
Dan
On 12/07/2011 12:20 PM, Andrew Eldredge wrote:
> This discussion has inspired me to look for the installation guide for
> the parts I bought...
>
> http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/pdf/GasketInsert.pdf
>
> It mentions two per cylinder may be used if desired, and that they
> should be re-torqued after a hot run. That seems like a good idea. I
> didn't buy enough of them to use two per cylinder,
>
> Speaking of exhaust leaks, I'm no fan of CO poisoning, and it would be
> a poor habit to develop to be permissive in this regard, but with the
> open cockpit, and the cylinder heads in the breeze rather than under a
> cowling, Is there much difference between exhaust leaking out at the
> head vs. at the end of the pipe a foot away give or take?
>
> I suppose another issue may be heating components near the head. What
> are the other risks?
>
> Andrew
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Yocum <yocum137(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Was A-65 exhaust gasket, now brass exhaust nuts |
On 12/07/2011 12:36 PM, helspersew(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> Speaking of exhaust gaskets:
> I have lost, on more than one occasion, some of those brass exhaust
> hold-on nuts. Is there any kind of goo that can be put on those
> threads to keep those nuts on there in that very hot location?
> Dan Helsper
> Puryear, TN
Wait. What? Those nuts are supposed to be self tightening since the
rate of expansion of the brass is different (greater) than steel. Did
you torque them correctly?
I think the studs on my exhaust bolts have holes in them, so I could use
safety wire. And I bet a little gob of red RTV stuck in the threads
wouldn't hurt and it would still come off pretty easily should I need to
take the pipes off.
Dan
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Was A-65 exhaust gasket, now brass exhaust nuts |
| From: | Andrew Eldredge <andrew.eldredge(at)gmail.com> |
In my case, I ordered a new stud, which was brass as well. As the stud
expands faster than the steel, it would loosen. I suppose the idea then,
is to torque them down while they're hot, then they will tighten as they
cool. Wikipedia has the coefficients at 19e-6 and 10.8e-6 for brass and
steel, respectively, Nearly a factor of 2. I'm glad we started talking
about this.
Fresno Airparts sent me more studs than I asked for instead of the A-65
manual I asked for. I'm glad we had this discussion.
Andrew
On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 11:53 AM, Dan Yocum wrote:
>
>
> On 12/07/2011 12:36 PM, helspersew(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>>
>> Speaking of exhaust gaskets:
>> I have lost, on more than one occasion, some of those brass exhaust
>> hold-on nuts. Is there any kind of goo that can be put on those
>> threads to keep those nuts on there in that very hot location?
>> Dan Helsper
>> Puryear, TN
>>
>
> Wait. What? Those nuts are supposed to be self tightening since the rate
> of expansion of the brass is different (greater) than steel. Did you
> torque them correctly?
>
> I think the studs on my exhaust bolts have holes in them, so I could use
> safety wire. And I bet a little gob of red RTV stuck in the threads
> wouldn't hurt and it would still come off pretty easily should I need to
> take the pipes off.
>
> Dan
>
>
--
Andrew Eldredge
Provo, UT
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Was A-65 exhaust gasket, now brass exhaust nuts |
| From: | Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com> |
The exhaust studs are not brass...
On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 3:57 PM, Andrew Eldredge
wrote:
> In my case, I ordered a new stud, which was brass as well. As the stud
> expands faster than the steel, it would loosen. I suppose the idea then,
> is to torque them down while they're hot, then they will tighten as they
> cool. Wikipedia has the coefficients at 19e-6 and 10.8e-6 for brass and
> steel, respectively, Nearly a factor of 2. I'm glad we started talking
> about this.
>
> Fresno Airparts sent me more studs than I asked for instead of the A-65
> manual I asked for. I'm glad we had this discussion.
>
> Andrew
>
> On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 11:53 AM, Dan Yocum wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 12/07/2011 12:36 PM, helspersew(at)aol.com wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Speaking of exhaust gaskets:
>>> I have lost, on more than one occasion, some of those brass exhaust
>>> hold-on nuts. Is there any kind of goo that can be put on those
>>> threads to keep those nuts on there in that very hot location?
>>> Dan Helsper
>>> Puryear, TN
>>>
>>
>> Wait. What? Those nuts are supposed to be self tightening since the
>> rate of expansion of the brass is different (greater) than steel. Did you
>> torque them correctly?
>>
>> I think the studs on my exhaust bolts have holes in them, so I could use
>> safety wire. And I bet a little gob of red RTV stuck in the threads
>> wouldn't hurt and it would still come off pretty easily should I need to
>> take the pipes off.
>>
>> Dan
>>
>>
>>
>> ====**==============================**=
>> om" target="_blank">www.aeroelectric.com
>> ooks.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
>> et="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
>> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/**contribution
>> le, List Admin.
>> ====**==============================**=
>> st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/**Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>> ====**==============================**=
>> http://forums.matronics.com
>> ====**==============================**=
>> le, List Admin.
>> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/**contribution
>> ====**==============================**=
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Andrew Eldredge
> Provo, UT
>
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Was A-65 exhaust gasket, now brass exhaust nuts |
| From: | helspersew(at)aol.com |
Well, I thought I did. Dan, I didn't think about the different expansion ra
tes as a method of security. I will make sure in the future. Also, I'll put
on a bit-o-rtv just for good luck.
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN
-----Original Message-----
From: Dan Yocum <yocum137(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Wed, Dec 7, 2011 12:56 pm
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Was A-65 exhaust gasket, now brass exhaust nut
s
On 12/07/2011 12:36 PM, helspersew(at)aol.com wrote:
Speaking of exhaust gaskets:
I have lost, on more than one occasion, some of those brass exhaust
hold-on nuts. Is there any kind of goo that can be put on those
threads to keep those nuts on there in that very hot location?
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN
Wait. What? Those nuts are supposed to be self tightening since the
ate of expansion of the brass is different (greater) than steel. Did
ou torque them correctly?
I think the studs on my exhaust bolts have holes in them, so I could use
afety wire. And I bet a little gob of red RTV stuck in the threads
ouldn't hurt and it would still come off pretty easily should I need to
ake the pipes off.
Dan
-========================
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-
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-
-========================
-= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum -
-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
-= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
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-========================
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-= Same great content also available via the Web Forums!
-
-= --> http://forums.matronics.com
-
-========================
-= - List Contribution Web Site -
-= Thank you for your generous support!
-= -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
-========================
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Was A-65 exhaust gasket, now brass exhaust nuts |
| From: | Andrew Eldredge <andrew.eldredge(at)gmail.com> |
The replacement Studs I have have the appearance of brass. I was suprised
by this, as none of the existing studs look like that. I figured it was
ignorance on my part. I'm sure there is something to this that I don't
know still..
On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 4:37 PM, wrote:
> Well, I thought I did. Dan, I didn't think about the different expansion
> rates as a method of security. I will make sure in the future. Also, I'll
> put on a bit-o-rtv just for good luck.
>
> Dan Helsper
> Puryear, TN
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dan Yocum <yocum137(at)gmail.com>
> To: pietenpol-list
> Sent: Wed, Dec 7, 2011 12:56 pm
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Was A-65 exhaust gasket, now brass exhaust
> nuts
>
>
> On 12/07/2011 12:36 PM, helspersew(at)aol.com
> wrote:
> >
> > Speaking of exhaust gaskets:
> > I have lost, on more than one occasion, some of those brass exhaust
> > hold-on nuts. Is there any kind of goo that can be put on those
> > threads to keep those nuts on there in that very hot location?
> > Dan Helsper
> > Puryear, TN
>
> Wait. What? Those nuts are supposed to be self tightening since the
> rate of expansion of the brass is different (greater) than steel. Did
> you torque them correctly?
>
> I think the studs on my exhaust bolts have holes in them, so I could use
> safety wire. And I bet a little gob of red RTV stuck in the threads
> wouldn't hurt and it would still come off pretty easily should I need to
> take the pipes off.
>
> Dan
>
>
> _blank>www.aeroelectric.com
> /" target=_blank>www.buildersbooks.com
> =_blank>www.homebuilthelp.com
> blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> " target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> p://forums.matronics.com
> blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
--
Andrew Eldredge
Provo, UT
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Was A-65 exhaust gasket, now brass exhaust nuts |
Perhaps they are cadmium plated, which has a golden color. They'd better be
steel. Are they magnetic?
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Andrew
Eldredge
Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2011 7:06 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Was A-65 exhaust gasket, now brass exhaust nuts
The replacement Studs I have have the appearance of brass. I was suprised
by this, as none of the existing studs look like that. I figured it was
ignorance on my part. I'm sure there is something to this that I don't know
still..
On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 4:37 PM, wrote:
Well, I thought I did. Dan, I didn't think about the different expansion
rates as a method of security. I will make sure in the future. Also, I'll
put on a bit-o-rtv just for good luck.
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN
-----Original Message-----
From: Dan Yocum <yocum137(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Wed, Dec 7, 2011 12:56 pm
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Was A-65 exhaust gasket, now brass exhaust nuts
On 12/07/2011 12:36 PM, helspersew(at)aol.com
wrote:
>
> Speaking of exhaust gaskets:
> I have lost, on more than one occasion, some of those brass exhaust
> hold-on nuts. Is there any kind of goo that can be put on those
> threads to keep those nuts on there in that very hot location?
> Dan Helsper
> Puryear, TN
Wait. What? Those nuts are supposed to be self tightening since the
rate of expansion of the brass is different (greater) than steel. Did
you torque them correctly?
I think the studs on my exhaust bolts have holes in them, so I could use
safety wire. And I bet a little gob of red RTV stuck in the threads
wouldn't hurt and it would still come off pretty easily should I need to
take the pipes off.
Dan
_blank>www.aeroelectric.com
/" target=_blank>www.buildersbooks.com
=_blank>www.homebuilthelp.com
blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
p://forums.matronics.com
blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
_blank">www.aeroelectric.com
.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
--
Andrew Eldredge
Provo, UT
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | A new Piet takes to the air |
| From: | "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca> |
Glad to see the Forum back up and running, after being out of service for about
5 days.
Just found a series of new video clips (filmed just last week) showing Don Sweeney's
new Funk powered Piet. Sounds pretty cool, and looks pretty darn nice. The
sound of a Model A without the radiator in the face.
There are about 19 videos altogether, but here are a few (start-up and take-off
and a nice landing on the grass)
http://youtu.be/o_SpsHHHvHM
http://youtu.be/6BjV4CmAndg
http://youtu.be/iJ-kSLzOInU
Well done, Don!
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=360362#360362
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Matronics Web Services Restored! |
Dear Listers,
web services have been fully restored including the Web Forums, List Browse,
Archive Search, Wiki, and AeroElectric web sites. It was quite an ordeal getting
the replacement boards for the server, but things went back together tonight
and are up and running nicely. The first company I ordered the boards from
originally called me a day later to say that, whoops, they really didn't have
them in stock after all... Fortunately, I was able to locate some through
a different source and had then over-nighted and they arrived today.
Thank you for your patience and consideration though the whole thing!
The List Contribution web site is also back on line for those wishing to make a
donation to the effort:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Matronics List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: A new Piet takes to the air |
| From: | "womenfly2" <Love2Fly.KAP(at)gmail.com> |
Awesome! Congratulations.
BTW, I flew an old clipped wing Cub at Sky Manor Airport years ago. A friend on
mine was also having a Stomp rebuilt there. .... the memories.
--------
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=360444#360444
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | CG shift common sense check. Elevator/stab gap seal. |
| From: | "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com> |
Finally got a set of scales and weighed the Piet. The goal is to determine if
the CG would move too far forward when my 180lb gets replaced by my son's 130lbs
to fly it from the back with me in the front.
I was told that the front seat essentially doesn't change the cg at all, which
seems to be the case.
Anyway, here's what I found and am curious if others have had similar results (as
this is the FIRST time I've ever done weight and balance).
Because it was practical, rather than do empty weight and balance and then all
the additives, we just weighed it in the various configurations.
We propped the plane up level, that is the top longeron of the fuse parallel to
the ground, which was essentially level (using a simple bubble level) inside
a concrete floor hangar.
I'm using the leading edge as the reference point. The mains are 4" back, the
tailwheel is 165.5" back from there. I measured straight to the ground, with
the plane propped level as described (using a plumb bob to transfer the leading
edge and tailwheel points).
Empty, the plane is 810 lbs, ready to fly minus crew. I'm 180, Scott is 130, so
gross is 1120.
With Scott in the front and me in the back, there's 100lbs on the tail, and 1020
on the mains.
So: [(100 lbs x 165.5 in) + (1020 lbs x 4 in)] / 1120 lbs = 18.4 in
With me in the front, Scott in the back, there's 85 lbs on the tail and 1035 on
the mains.
So: [(85 lbs x 165.5 in) + (1035 lbs x 4 in)] / 1120 lbs = 16.3 in
Since I used the leading edge as reference, then that figure is where the CG is
relative to it. Best I can tell, the CG range is 15 to 20 in, so I'm fine either
way, right?
Lastly, Dick said this plane was tail heavy when he built it, not surprising as
it's got an A65 on the short fuse. He moved the wing back 4 1/2" and added a
small battery and header tank (right behind the firewall) to get it in balance.
With just me in the plane, I calculated a 19.something CG. It would make
sense Dick added just enough weight up front to get it safe, which would leave
me a lot of leeway in removing weight from the back.
I was surprised that it only shifted by 2 in. I'm curious if others have had similar
results. Has anyone had experience moving the CG that far and how much
difference did they notice in flying characteristics?
Dick had the elevator gap taped. That tape failed on the way home so I've been
flying it without. I notice a difference in the flare, but not a lot. The tape
was on the bottom on the elevators/stab. It seems to me that the tape should
be on the top, as there is higher pressure on the top, than the bottom. With
the tape on the bottom, the pressure difference would tend to want to pull
the tape "up". If it's on the top, the pressure difference would want to push
the tape down, which seems like it would stay on there longer. Any comments
or experiences? Seems like the gap seal would make a larger difference with
a more forward CG.
Thanks,
Tools
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=360458#360458
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Was A-65 exhaust gasket, now brass exhaust nuts |
| From: | Andrew Eldredge <andrew.eldredge(at)gmail.com> |
At second look, I think that's cad plating... Remarkable how similar that
can look.
On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 7:04 PM, Jack Phillips wrote
:
> ** ** **
>
> Perhaps they are cadmium plated, which has a golden color. They=92d bett
er
> be steel. Are they magnetic?****
>
> ** **
>
> Jack Phillips****
>
> NX899JP****
>
> Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia****
>
> ** **
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Andrew Eldredge
> *Sent:* Wednesday, December 07, 2011 7:06 PM
> *To:* pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: Was A-65 exhaust gasket, now brass exhaust
> nuts****
>
> ** **
>
> The replacement Studs I have have the appearance of brass. I was suprise
d
> by this, as none of the existing studs look like that. I figured it was
> ignorance on my part. I'm sure there is something to this that I don't
> know still..****
>
> On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 4:37 PM, wrote:****
>
> Well, I thought I did. Dan, I didn't think about the different expansion
> rates as a method of security. I will make sure in the future. Also, I'll
> put on a bit-o-rtv just for good luck.****
>
> ****
>
> Dan Helsper****
>
> ****Puryear**, **TN********
>
> ****
>
> ****
>
> ****
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dan Yocum <yocum137(at)gmail.com>
> To: pietenpol-list
> Sent: Wed, Dec 7, 2011 12:56 pm
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Was A-65 exhaust gasket, now brass exhaust
> nuts****
>
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> On 12/07/2011 12:36 PM, helspersew(at)aol.com****
>
> wrote:****
>
> >** **
>
> > Speaking of exhaust gaskets:****
>
> > I have lost, on more than one occasion, some of those brass exhaust
****
>
> > hold-on nuts. Is there any kind of goo that can be put on those****
>
> > threads to keep those nuts on there in that very hot location?****
>
> > Dan Helsper****
>
> > ****Puryear**, **TN********
>
> ** **
>
> Wait. What? Those nuts are supposed to be self tightening since the ***
*
>
> rate of expansion of the brass is different (greater) than steel. Did **
**
>
> you torque them correctly?****
>
> ** **
>
> I think the studs on my exhaust bolts have holes in them, so I could use
****
>
> safety wire. And I bet a little gob of red RTV stuck in the threads ****
>
> wouldn't hurt and it would still come off pretty easily should I need to
****
>
> take the pipes off.****
>
> ** **
>
> Dan****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> _blank>www.aeroelectric.com****
>
> /" target=_blank>www.buildersbooks.com****
>
> =_blank>www.homebuilthelp.com****
>
> blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution****
>
> " target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List****
>
> p://forums.matronics.com****
>
> blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> *_blank">www.aeroelectric.com*
>
> *.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com*
>
> *="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com*
>
> *_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>
> *" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List*
>
> *tp://forums.matronics.com*
>
> *_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>
> * *
>
>
> --
> Andrew Eldredge
> ****Provo**, **UT********
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *www.buildersbooks.com*
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List*
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://forums.matronics.com*
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>
> * *
>
> *
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
===========
> *
>
>
--
Andrew Eldredge
Provo, UT
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Yocum <yocum(at)fnal.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: Was A-65 exhaust gasket, now brass exhaust nuts |
On 12/07/2011 03:57 PM, Andrew Eldredge wrote:
> In my case, I ordered a new stud, which was brass as well. As the stud
> expands faster than the steel, it would loosen. I suppose the idea
> then, is to torque them down while they're hot, then they will tighten
> as they cool. Wikipedia has the coefficients at 19e-6 and 10.8e-6 for
> brass and steel, respectively, Nearly a factor of 2. I'm glad we
> started talking about this.
Well, the nuts will expand in thickness (as well as circumference) and
that increase in thickness is what tightens (or should tighten!) the nut
to the exhaust flange every time it gets hot.
As for this nut, I get a little loose with some brats, beer, and scotch,
but that's different problem. ;-)
Cheers,
Dan
--
Dan Yocum
Fermilab 630.840.6509
yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dick N" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
| Subject: | Re: CG shift common sense check. Elevator/stab gap seal. |
Hey Mike
Are you really sure on the empty weight? Did you drain all the fuel out of
the nose tank? I recall the weight empty at 685lbs. Im just wondering.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2011 10:25 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: CG shift common sense check. Elevator/stab gap
seal.
>
> Finally got a set of scales and weighed the Piet. The goal is to
> determine if the CG would move too far forward when my 180lb gets replaced
> by my son's 130lbs to fly it from the back with me in the front.
>
> I was told that the front seat essentially doesn't change the cg at all,
> which seems to be the case.
>
> Anyway, here's what I found and am curious if others have had similar
> results (as this is the FIRST time I've ever done weight and balance).
>
> Because it was practical, rather than do empty weight and balance and then
> all the additives, we just weighed it in the various configurations.
>
> We propped the plane up level, that is the top longeron of the fuse
> parallel to the ground, which was essentially level (using a simple bubble
> level) inside a concrete floor hangar.
>
> I'm using the leading edge as the reference point. The mains are 4" back,
> the tailwheel is 165.5" back from there. I measured straight to the
> ground, with the plane propped level as described (using a plumb bob to
> transfer the leading edge and tailwheel points).
>
> Empty, the plane is 810 lbs, ready to fly minus crew. I'm 180, Scott is
> 130, so gross is 1120.
>
> With Scott in the front and me in the back, there's 100lbs on the tail,
> and 1020 on the mains.
>
> So: [(100 lbs x 165.5 in) + (1020 lbs x 4 in)] / 1120 lbs = 18.4 in
>
> With me in the front, Scott in the back, there's 85 lbs on the tail and
> 1035 on the mains.
>
> So: [(85 lbs x 165.5 in) + (1035 lbs x 4 in)] / 1120 lbs = 16.3 in
>
> Since I used the leading edge as reference, then that figure is where the
> CG is relative to it. Best I can tell, the CG range is 15 to 20 in, so
> I'm fine either way, right?
>
> Lastly, Dick said this plane was tail heavy when he built it, not
> surprising as it's got an A65 on the short fuse. He moved the wing back 4
> 1/2" and added a small battery and header tank (right behind the firewall)
> to get it in balance. With just me in the plane, I calculated a
> 19.something CG. It would make sense Dick added just enough weight up
> front to get it safe, which would leave me a lot of leeway in removing
> weight from the back.
>
> I was surprised that it only shifted by 2 in. I'm curious if others have
> had similar results. Has anyone had experience moving the CG that far and
> how much difference did they notice in flying characteristics?
>
> Dick had the elevator gap taped. That tape failed on the way home so I've
> been flying it without. I notice a difference in the flare, but not a
> lot. The tape was on the bottom on the elevators/stab. It seems to me
> that the tape should be on the top, as there is higher pressure on the
> top, than the bottom. With the tape on the bottom, the pressure
> difference would tend to want to pull the tape "up". If it's on the top,
> the pressure difference would want to push the tape down, which seems like
> it would stay on there longer. Any comments or experiences? Seems like
> the gap seal would make a larger difference with a more forward CG.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Tools
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=360458#360458
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "C N Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> |
I received this message from Cloudcars (Prop manufacturers) and they
asked that I forward this to our "chat group.''
----- Original Message -----
From: Jay & Carmen
Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2011 2:21 PM
Subject: Re: Hardware
Chuck~
If you=99re talking about a Crush Plate.... ALL WOOD PROPS should
have a crush plate.
NEVER bolt up or even turn up a wood prop without a crushplate!!!
The thickness of the crushplate will depend on the type of metal used to
make it...
Could be anywhere from 3/16=9D to 1/2=9D, depending on the
material it=99s made from.
Naturally the steel would be on the thinner side of the figure.
Try Aircraft Spruce, Wicks or maybe Barnstormers.... you have a SAE1
bolt pattern.
Please show this to the other guys on your chat group, to make sure
NO-ONE is trying to
bolt up WOOD props without a crushplate.
Jay
From: C N Campbell
Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2011 12:46 PM
Subject: Fw: Hardware
Carmen, Roger and I have been discussing the type and length of bolts
for my Cloudcars prop and he sent me the E-mail which I am forwarding to
you. Do I need a face plate on my prop. If so, how thick should it be
and where do I get one? Chuck .
----- Original Message -----
From: Rogpoldodson(at)aol.com
Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2011 8:43 AM
Subject: Re: Hardware
Chuck . Something else you might want to take into account is if you
need a face plate on that prop. Check with the builder of the prop. If
so you will need to take into account the thickness of the plate. Rog.
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
12/08/11
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "C N Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> |
| Subject: | Re: CG shift common sense check. Elevator/stab gap seal. |
I figure that 125 # is fuel. He says its empty ready to fly at 810.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dick N" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2011 2:36 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: CG shift common sense check. Elevator/stab gap
seal.
>
> Hey Mike
> Are you really sure on the empty weight? Did you drain all the fuel out
> of the nose tank? I recall the weight empty at 685lbs. Im just
> wondering.
> Dick
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com>
> To:
> Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2011 10:25 AM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: CG shift common sense check. Elevator/stab gap
> seal.
>
>
>>
>> Finally got a set of scales and weighed the Piet. The goal is to
>> determine if the CG would move too far forward when my 180lb gets
>> replaced by my son's 130lbs to fly it from the back with me in the front.
>>
>> I was told that the front seat essentially doesn't change the cg at all,
>> which seems to be the case.
>>
>> Anyway, here's what I found and am curious if others have had similar
>> results (as this is the FIRST time I've ever done weight and balance).
>>
>> Because it was practical, rather than do empty weight and balance and
>> then all the additives, we just weighed it in the various configurations.
>>
>> We propped the plane up level, that is the top longeron of the fuse
>> parallel to the ground, which was essentially level (using a simple
>> bubble level) inside a concrete floor hangar.
>>
>> I'm using the leading edge as the reference point. The mains are 4"
>> back, the tailwheel is 165.5" back from there. I measured straight to
>> the ground, with the plane propped level as described (using a plumb bob
>> to transfer the leading edge and tailwheel points).
>>
>> Empty, the plane is 810 lbs, ready to fly minus crew. I'm 180, Scott is
>> 130, so gross is 1120.
>>
>> With Scott in the front and me in the back, there's 100lbs on the tail,
>> and 1020 on the mains.
>>
>> So: [(100 lbs x 165.5 in) + (1020 lbs x 4 in)] / 1120 lbs = 18.4 in
>>
>> With me in the front, Scott in the back, there's 85 lbs on the tail and
>> 1035 on the mains.
>>
>> So: [(85 lbs x 165.5 in) + (1035 lbs x 4 in)] / 1120 lbs = 16.3 in
>>
>> Since I used the leading edge as reference, then that figure is where the
>> CG is relative to it. Best I can tell, the CG range is 15 to 20 in, so
>> I'm fine either way, right?
>>
>> Lastly, Dick said this plane was tail heavy when he built it, not
>> surprising as it's got an A65 on the short fuse. He moved the wing back
>> 4 1/2" and added a small battery and header tank (right behind the
>> firewall) to get it in balance. With just me in the plane, I calculated
>> a 19.something CG. It would make sense Dick added just enough weight up
>> front to get it safe, which would leave me a lot of leeway in removing
>> weight from the back.
>>
>> I was surprised that it only shifted by 2 in. I'm curious if others have
>> had similar results. Has anyone had experience moving the CG that far
>> and how much difference did they notice in flying characteristics?
>>
>> Dick had the elevator gap taped. That tape failed on the way home so
>> I've been flying it without. I notice a difference in the flare, but not
>> a lot. The tape was on the bottom on the elevators/stab. It seems to me
>> that the tape should be on the top, as there is higher pressure on the
>> top, than the bottom. With the tape on the bottom, the pressure
>> difference would tend to want to pull the tape "up". If it's on the top,
>> the pressure difference would want to push the tape down, which seems
>> like it would stay on there longer. Any comments or experiences? Seems
>> like the gap seal would make a larger difference with a more forward CG.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Tools
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=360458#360458
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Boyer <boyerjrb(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fw: Hardware |
Hi Chuck,
I got my Aluminium crush plate from Aircraft Spruce and Specialty.
Jim B.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: CG shift common sense check. Elevator/stab gap seal. |
| From: | "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com> |
Hey Dick,
Yep, sure about the weight. However, I did NOT drain anything. That 810 is with
the radio, gps, seat cushions, a couple candy bars, full bag of fuel, oil,
EVERYTHING but occupants, so I figure your 685 is probably right.
Tools, who had a beautiful day but had to help a bud, and couldn't go flying, was
a little depressed...
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=360489#360489
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | What Really Happened to Air France 447 |
Not at all Pietenpol related, but interesting nontheless.
Jack Phillips
This article published a couple days ago. Amazing. All of this information
may have been out for some time, but this article puts the whole picture
together well, which I did not fully understand before now.
www.popularmechanics.com/technology/aviation/crashes/what-really-happened-ab
oard-air-france-447-6611877
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca> |
For those who use the Forum, rather than the email version of the Pietenpol List,
Chuck's message likely didn't make any sense, because the message he tried
to forward did not get posted. I have retrieved it from the Matronics site and
attached it below:
----- Original Message -----
From: Jay & Carmen
Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2011 2:21 PM
Subject: Re: Hardware
Chuck~
If you're talking about a Crush Plate.... ALL WOOD PROPS should
have a crush plate.
NEVER bolt up or even turn up a wood prop without a crushplate!!!
The thickness of the crushplate will depend on the type of metal used to
make it...
Could be anywhere from 3/16" to 1/2", depending on the
material it's made from.
Naturally the steel would be on the thinner side of the figure.
Try Aircraft Spruce, Wicks or maybe Barnstormers.... you have a SAE1
bolt pattern.
Please show this to the other guys on your chat group, to make sure
NO-ONE is trying to
bolt up WOOD props without a crushplate.
Jay
From: C N Campbell
Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2011 12:46 PM
Subject: Fw: Hardware
Carmen, Roger and I have been discussing the type and length of bolts
for my Cloudcars prop and he sent me the E-mail which I am forwarding to
you. Do I need a face plate on my prop. If so, how thick should it be
and where do I get one? Chuck .
----- Original Message -----
From: Rogpoldodson(at)aol.com
Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2011 8:43 AM
Subject: Re: Hardware
Chuck . Something else you might want to take into account is if you
need a face plate on that prop. Check with the builder of the prop. If
so you will need to take into account the thickness of the plate. Rog.
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
12/08/11
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=360492#360492
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gboothe5" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
Homemade crush plate...1/4" 6061.
Gary from Cool
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Church
Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2011 6:24 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Hardware
For those who use the Forum, rather than the email version of the Pietenpol
List, Chuck's message likely didn't make any sense, because the message he
tried to forward did not get posted. I have retrieved it from the Matronics
site and attached it below:
----- Original Message -----
From: Jay & Carmen
Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2011 2:21 PM
Subject: Re: Hardware
Chuck~
If you're talking about a Crush Plate.... ALL WOOD PROPS should
have a crush plate.
NEVER bolt up or even turn up a wood prop without a crushplate!!!
The thickness of the crushplate will depend on the type of metal used to
make it...
Could be anywhere from 3/16" to 1/2", depending on the
material it's made from.
Naturally the steel would be on the thinner side of the figure.
Try Aircraft Spruce, Wicks or maybe Barnstormers.... you have a SAE1
bolt pattern.
Please show this to the other guys on your chat group, to make sure
NO-ONE is trying to
bolt up WOOD props without a crushplate.
Jay
From: C N Campbell
Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2011 12:46 PM
Subject: Fw: Hardware
Carmen, Roger and I have been discussing the type and length of bolts
for my Cloudcars prop and he sent me the E-mail which I am forwarding to
you. Do I need a face plate on my prop. If so, how thick should it be
and where do I get one? Chuck .
----- Original Message -----
From: Rogpoldodson(at)aol.com
Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2011 8:43 AM
Subject: Re: Hardware
Chuck . Something else you might want to take into account is if you
need a face plate on that prop. Check with the builder of the prop. If
so you will need to take into account the thickness of the plate. Rog.
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
12/08/11
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=360492#360492
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: CG shift common sense check. Elevator/stab gap seal. |
I will be working my first W&B in the (maybe) near future so this post is timely
for me. I only have one comment. Since the horizontal stabilizer/elevators have
little to no air foil shape and that shape is the same on bot top and bottom,
there will not be a pressure difference. At these locations, it should not
matter on what side the gap seal tape is applied.
If the tail was shaped like the wing, then any tape on the top would want to pull
up off of the surface...the low pressure top of the wing relative to the higher
pressure underneath.
Michael Perez
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Off topic frivolity and edification request |
Well, Ken, I hate to see you go. Too bad you are bailing out of the Pietenp
ol community, but I understand your position.--
Michael Perez
=0AKaretaker Aero
=0Awww.karetakeraero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: CG shift common sense check. Elevator/stab gap seal. |
| From: | "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com> |
Well, while it's flat, it's still a "wing". The differential shape comes when
the elevators are deflected, or even when aligned (or "flat") the lift comes from
it's own little angle of attack.
Airplanes are nose heavy. If the tail wasn't there, the nose would drop. The
fact it "holds" the nose up (even in level flight) means that there is lower pressure
on the bottom, higher on the top, to create that force.
Stick your hand out the window of your car while driving. Angle it this way and
that, you'll feel the force on the top or bottom respectively.
The horiz stab/elevators only produce lift the other way when nose down pitch in
excess of what gravity can provide, is needed.
In the flare, you are at your slowest, but still need to keep the nose from dropping
(or even need to bring it up at the last second to establish the correct
touch down attitude), so more deflection is needed to provide more lift to compensate
for the slower airspeed. It will either stall or simply run out of enough
deflection to do that. Hopefully you've touched down by then.
The rudder acts the same way, but provides lift on one side nearly the same as
it does the other, so taping one side over the other is pointless.
Still doesn't mean I'm right about the tape on the elevator...!
Tools
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=360513#360513
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: CG shift common sense check. Elevator/stab gap seal. |
| From: | "Bryan Reed" <reed44(at)gmail.com> |
Michael,
Even a symmetrical wing will generate lift. It is the angle of attack that will
cause the airflow over the top of the wing to travel farther and thus create
a lower pressure area. By designing a wing with additional distance naturally
it creates more lift but will also produce more induced drag. Many sailplanes
and most aerobatic planes have symmetrical wings. Most high performance aircraft
will also have nearly symmetrical wings to limit induced drag. The swept
wing design also further reduces induced drag.
A stable aircraft is nose heavy thus in level flight the elevator must cause
the lift to occur from the top of the horizontal stab, pushing down and therefor
lifting the heavier nose of the plane. To accomplish this we will apply up
elevator. The longer air travel and thus low pressure zone is at the bottom of
the horizontal stabilizer and elevator. It is this necessary induced tail drag
of stable aircraft that led to the V-tail Bonanza design. Having flown the
V-tail I can tell you that is has an uncomfortable loosey goosey feel from the
tail with that design. Pilot discomfort with that feeling during flight is what
led them to return to the normal tail configuration.
See ya,
Bryan
--------
Working Piet N5289B
While I may not always be right, I apologize well.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=360515#360515
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: CG shift common sense check. Elevator/stab gap seal. |
| From: | helspersew(at)aol.com |
I haven't seen too many (none that I can recall) elevator gap seals at Brod
head. Is this really necessary? Just wondering.
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Sent: Fri, Dec 9, 2011 7:07 am
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: CG shift common sense check. Elevator/stab gap
seal.
I will be working my first W&B in the (maybe) near future so this post is t
imely for me. I only have one comment. Since the horizontal stabilizer/elev
ators have little to no air foil shape and that shape is the same on bot to
p and bottom, there will not be a pressure difference. At these locations,
it should not matter on what side the gap seal tape is applied.
If the tail was shaped like the wing, then any tape on the top would want t
o pull up off of the surface...the low pressure top of the wing relative to
the higher pressure underneath.
Michael Perez
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
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________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: CG shift common sense check. Elevator/stab gap seal. |
| From: | "Bryan Reed" <reed44(at)gmail.com> |
Sorry Tool,-Is that really what people call you? : )
I see you beat me to it with a more eloquent explanation.
Cheers,
Bryan
--------
Working Piet N5289B
While I may not always be right, I apologize well.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=360516#360516
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "C N Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> |
| Subject: | Re: CG shift common sense check. Elevator/stab gap seal. |
How about using full-length piano hinge on the elevators. That would
give a gap seal at the top -- don't have a suggestion for the bottom. C
----- Original Message -----
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, December 09, 2011 9:04 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: CG shift common sense check.
Elevator/stab gap seal.
I haven't seen too many (none that I can recall) elevator gap seals at
Brodhead. Is this really necessary? Just wondering.
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
To: pietenpol-list
Sent: Fri, Dec 9, 2011 7:07 am
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: CG shift common sense check.
Elevator/stab gap seal.
I will be working my first W&B in the (maybe) near future so
this post is timely for me. I only have one comment. Since the
horizontal stabilizer/elevators have little to no air foil shape and
that shape is the same on bot top and bottom, there will not be a
pressure difference. At these locations, it should not matter on what
side the gap seal tape is applied.
If the tail was shaped like the wing, then any tape on the top
would want to pull up off of the surface...the low pressure top of the
wing relative to the higher pressure underneath.
Michael Perez
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
_blank>www.aeroelectric.com
/" target=_blank>www.buildersbooks.com
=_blank>www.homebuilthelp.com
blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
p://forums.matronics.com
blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gboothe5" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | CG shift common sense check. Elevator/stab gap seal. |
I have certainly heard that ailerons would improve with gap seals (or
continuous hinges), but I don't recall anyone saying that they wished they
had more elevator.
Gary from Cool
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of C N Campbell
Sent: Friday, December 09, 2011 6:29 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: CG shift common sense check. Elevator/stab gap
seal.
How about using full-length piano hinge on the elevators. That would give a
gap seal at the top -- don't have a suggestion for the bottom. C
----- Original Message -----
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
Sent: Friday, December 09, 2011 9:04 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: CG shift common sense check. Elevator/stab gap
seal.
I haven't seen too many (none that I can recall) elevator gap seals at
Brodhead. Is this really necessary? Just wondering.
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Sent: Fri, Dec 9, 2011 7:07 am
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: CG shift common sense check. Elevator/stab gap
seal.
I will be working my first W&B in the (maybe) near future so this post is
timely for me. I only have one comment. Since the horizontal
stabilizer/elevators have little to no air foil shape and that shape is the
same on bot top and bottom, there will not be a pressure difference. At
these locations, it should not matter on what side the gap seal tape is
applied.
If the tail was shaped like the wing, then any tape on the top would want to
pull up off of the surface...the low pressure top of the wing relative to
the higher pressure underneath.
Michael Perez
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com <http://www.karetakeraero.com/>
_blank>www.aeroelectric.com
/" target=_blank>www.buildersbooks.com
=_blank>www.homebuilthelp.com
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" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
p://forums.matronics.com
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href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | CG shift common sense check. Elevator/stab gap seal. |
I put gap seals (duct tape) on mine a couple of years ago. They fell off
(well, one did so I removed the other) on the way to Brodhead this summer.
There was a noticeable effect, but not much. What I noticed is that with
the elevator gaps sealed, I could lift the tail sooner on takeoff. It also
affected my trim somewhat. I have a spring-type trim system, and with the
gaps sealed, I ran out of nose up trim and still needed to hold a slight bit
of back pressure when I had a load in the baggage compartment (I have a nose
baggage compartment on my Pietenpol, since my fuel tank is in the
centersection). When the seals were removed, my trim spring was strong
enough to give me all the back pressure I needed, even with a load up front.
In regards to the recent discussion about the function of tails, the
horizontal tail provides downforce to hold the typical nose heavy airplane
level. in the case of most Pietenpols (and every one that I have flown), if
you look at the horizontal tail in flight, you will see a slight bit of down
elevator, indicating that the tail is actually providing a bit of lift.
This is likely a function of the Pietenpol's airfoil, and of the fact that
many Pietenpols (mine included) are flown with the CG near the aft edge of
the envelope. Adding gap seals apparently increases that tail lift force,
requiring more back pressure (or less forward pressure) to hold the plane in
level flight.
Here are a couple of pictures showing Pietenpols in level flight, showing
the slight down elevator:
Here is my Pietenpol in flight. You can see a slight down elevator (not
much, since I have my wife and a full load of baggage).
And here is Mike Cuy's, on the way to Brodhead, back in 2005:
Here is Greg Cardinal's
And here is another one (don't know who owns this one):
All show a similar amount of down elevator.
So in answer to which side the tape should go on, I put mine on the bottom,
not for aerodynamic reasons, but because a strip of grey duct tape is ugly.
To each his own.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
helspersew(at)aol.com
Sent: Friday, December 09, 2011 9:04 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: CG shift common sense check. Elevator/stab gap
seal.
I haven't seen too many (none that I can recall) elevator gap seals at
Brodhead. Is this really necessary? Just wondering.
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Sent: Fri, Dec 9, 2011 7:07 am
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: CG shift common sense check. Elevator/stab gap
seal.
I will be working my first W&B in the (maybe) near future so this post is
timely for me. I only have one comment. Since the horizontal
stabilizer/elevators have little to no air foil shape and that shape is the
same on bot top and bottom, there will not be a pressure difference. At
these locations, it should not matter on what side the gap seal tape is
applied.
If the tail was shaped like the wing, then any tape on the top would want to
pull up off of the surface...the low pressure top of the wing relative to
the higher pressure underneath.
Michael Perez
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com <http://www.karetakeraero.com/>
_blank>www.aeroelectric.com
/" target=_blank>www.buildersbooks.com
=_blank>www.homebuilthelp.com
blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
p://forums.matronics.com
blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: CG shift common sense check. Elevator/stab gap seal. |
| From: | "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com> |
Hey Bryan,
Yep, people call me Tools. It was my callsign during the glory days (Navy pilot).
You can call me that, Mike, many call me Dan (presumably because my last
name is Danford, though my dad never got that, he's Gary...) and there's some
we won't mention here! I've always had nicknames as there was always a number
of Mikes in the class.
Sealing the gap will help if you need more elevator authority, as it makes it more
efficient and helps generate more lift, just like the ailerons.
I was just wondering if folks found not enough (or a feeling like they wish they
had more) elevator authority after making a CG shift like I'm going to. I really
don't think it is going to be a problem, but also thought asking couldn't
hurt.
Dan, I didn't see many sealed elevator gaps either, though I did a few, this one
being one of them (it's been to Brodhead a number of years). Dick may have
sealed the gap in his other Piet as well.
I'm going to seal the gap, was just looking to see if my thinking on where tape
should be (if you're using tape), was correct and I believe it is.
You only need to seal one side, as the purpose is to prevent air from going through
the gap, it isn't a parasitic drag thing.
Tools
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=360526#360526
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: CG shift common sense check. Elevator/stab gap seal. |
| From: | "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com> |
Oh, by the way, and just for fun. I weighed the plane "empty" (not FAA empty weight,
just without a pilot or pax) and did a balance computation.
It came in at like 14". Someone told me the range for this plane is 12 to 20".
If that's so, it looks like it would be safe to fly from the front only. I'm
not going to do that, but just wouldn't have guessed that to be the case.
Someone else mentioned 15 to 20, and that was in agreement of the standard percentage
range nearly all airplanes seem to conform with. So I'm not really convinced
about the "safeness" of flying solo from the front.
I am going to learn to fly from the front, but only so I can teach my son. I have
a friend around here who's a taildragger CFI I'll get to ride in the back
while I give it a go. Should be fun!
Tools
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=360528#360528
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: What Really Happened to Air France 447 |
| From: | "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com> |
Wow, very interesting and near and dear to my heart. First, I flew a B767-300ER
out of Rio within days both before and after that disaster.
Second, I just got qualified (since the finding of the black boxes) in a A330 and
never heard ANY of this.
First, you almost NEVER really hand fly a A330. Even with the auto pilot off,
you are in less than "fly by wire". The flight control automation STILL won't
give you direct control of the flight surfaces. Even in some forms of alternate
law, the plane shouldn't stall.
We definitely don't practice hand flying. Period. We do some of this and that
through initial training, but not during recurrent training. And we certainly
don't do ANYTHING that would prepare you for this sort of ordeal.
There is no problem with "who is in control" as alluded to because there were two
first officers.
The A330 is CRAZY complex. I do believe this would be VERY much less likely with
a Boeing, because of synchronous controls and such. Not that the 330 is a
bad plane, it's not. It's UNBELIEVABLY impressive. While there is a stall warning,
there is no "warning" that the plane is in other than normal law. Well,
nothing like a GPWS warning, stall warning or something like that. It's rather
difficult to tell what phase the flight controls are in, oddly enough. It
isn't considered a big deal because practically NO CARRIER has had a plane operate
in other than normal law.
A result of extreme reliability I suppose.
I have to say, I was a bit worried about going to fly the 330 because my hand flying
skills would deteriorate. However, I bought my Piet the same time I started
training and I definitely feel better because of it. There is a lot to be
learned from this mishap for ALL pilots.
I think the article (if accurate, and nothing really stands out to the contrary,
though some of their conclusions aren't quite right, nothing that would lead
anyone astray though) is very useful for even us low and slow guys.
I had a student once lose his airspeed indicator. I was leading 3 other solo students
in a 4 plane formation flight. Dash two, told me after takeoff his airspeed
indicator wasn't working. It was clear and a million (as it has to be
for a flight like that with students). He sounded good, made the right call to
let me know, even though I don't need to, it isn't a big deal. It was about
then as i was acknowledging him I noticed he was a little more shaken about it
than I wold have thought, as his gear was still down!
The point is, you might be amazed at how even small distractions affect you more
than you might realize. In most phases of life, things aren't so critical that
it would manifest itself at all, but definitely less so with flying.
Tools
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=360531#360531
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: CG shift common sense check. Elevator/stab gap |
seal.
Do you have brakes in the front?
Not sure why you would want to fly from the front, unless for instruction.
Visibility is better from the rear.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of tools
Sent: Friday, December 09, 2011 10:25 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: CG shift common sense check. Elevator/stab gap
seal.
Oh, by the way, and just for fun. I weighed the plane "empty" (not FAA
empty weight, just without a pilot or pax) and did a balance computation.
It came in at like 14". Someone told me the range for this plane is 12 to
20". If that's so, it looks like it would be safe to fly from the front
only. I'm not going to do that, but just wouldn't have guessed that to be
the case.
Someone else mentioned 15 to 20, and that was in agreement of the standard
percentage range nearly all airplanes seem to conform with. So I'm not
really convinced about the "safeness" of flying solo from the front.
I am going to learn to fly from the front, but only so I can teach my son.
I have a friend around here who's a taildragger CFI I'll get to ride in the
back while I give it a go. Should be fun!
Tools
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=360528#360528
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | CG shift common sense check. Elevator/stab gap seal. |
Now that I have heard it again, I vaguely remember talk about tail lift/pre
ssure forces. I find it odd that our tail with it's relatively flat profile
does anything more then come along for the ride. I don't understand how th
e tail, being symmetrical, can have any lifting force at all...top or botto
m. I would think the forces are equal and null each other out. (thinking pu
rely having the elevators level with horizontal.)=C2- But, it is what it
is and it works...can't argue that.
Michael Perez
=0AKaretaker Aero
=0Awww.karetakeraero.com
--- On Fri, 12/9/11, Jack Phillips wrote:
From: Jack Phillips <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: CG shift common sense check. Elevator/stab gap
seal.
Date: Friday, December 9, 2011, 10:10 AM
=0A=0A=0A =0A =0A=0A =0A=0A =0A=0A =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AI put gap
seals (duct tape) on mine a=0Acouple of years ago.=C2- They fell off (wel
l, one did so I removed the other)=0Aon the way to Brodhead this summer.=C2
- There was a noticeable effect, but=0Anot much.=C2- What I noticed is
that with the elevator gaps sealed, I could=0Alift the tail sooner on takeo
ff.=C2- It also affected my trim somewhat.=C2-=0AI have a spring-type t
rim system, and with the gaps sealed, I ran out of nose=0Aup trim and still
needed to hold a slight bit of back pressure when I had a=0Aload in the ba
ggage compartment (I have a nose baggage compartment on my=0APietenpol, sin
ce my fuel tank is in the centersection).=C2- When the seals=0Awere remov
ed, my trim spring was strong enough to give me all the back pressure=0AI n
eeded, even with a load up front. =0A=0A =C2- =0A=0AIn regards to the rec
ent discussion about=0Athe function of tails, the horizontal tail provides
downforce to hold the=0Atypical nose heavy airplane level. in the case of m
ost Pietenpols (and every=0Aone that I have flown), if you look at the hori
zontal tail in flight, you will=0Asee a slight bit of down elevator, indica
ting that the tail is actually=0Aproviding a bit of lift.=C2- This is lik
ely a function of the Pietenpol=99s=0Aairfoil, and of the fact that m
any Pietenpols (mine included) are flown with=0Athe CG near the aft edge of
the envelope.=C2- Adding gap seals apparently=0Aincreases that tail lift
force, requiring more back pressure (or less forward=0Apressure) to hold t
he plane in level flight. =0A=0A =C2- =0A=0AHere are a couple of pictures
showing=0APietenpols in level flight, showing the slight down elevator:
=0A=0A =C2- =0A=0A=C2- =0A=0AHere is my Pietenpol in flight.=C2- You
=0Acan see a slight down elevator (not much, since I have my wife and a ful
l load=0Aof baggage). =0A=0A =C2- =0A=0AAnd here is Mike Cuy=99s, o
n the way=0Ato Brodhead, back in 2005: =0A=0A =C2- =0A=0A =0A=0A =C2-
=0A=0AHere is Greg Cardinal=99s =0A=0A =C2- =0A=0A =0A=0A =C2-
=0A=0AAnd here is another one (don=99t know=0Awho owns this one): =0A
=0A =C2- =0A=0A =0A=0A =C2- =0A=0AAll show a similar amount of down ele
vator. =0A=0A =C2- =0A=0ASo in answer to which side the tape should=0Ago
on, I put mine on the bottom, not for aerodynamic reasons, but because a=0A
strip of grey duct tape is ugly. =0A=0A =C2- =0A=0ATo each his own
=0A=0A =C2- =0A=0AJack Phillips =0A=0ANX899JP =0A=0ASmith Mountain La
ke, Virginia =0A=0A =C2- =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AFrom:=0Aowner-piet
enpol-list-server(at)matronics.com=0A[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matro
nics.com] On Behalf Of helspersew(at)aol.com
=0ASent: Friday, December 09, 2011=0A9:04 AM
=0ATo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
=0ASubject: Re: Pietenpol-List: CG=0Ashift common sense check. Elevator/sta
b gap seal. =0A=0A=0A=0A =C2- =0A=0A=0A=0AI haven't seen too many (none t
hat I can=0Arecall) elevator gap seals at Brodhead. Is this really necessar
y? Just=0Awondering. =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=C2- =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ADan Helsper
=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0APuryear, TN
=0A
=0A =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A-----Original=0AMessage-----
=0AFrom: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
=0ATo: pietenpol-list
=0ASent: Fri, Dec 9, 2011 7:07 am
=0ASubject: Re: Pietenpol-List: CG shift common sense check. Elevator/stab
gap=0Aseal. =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A =0A =0A I will be working my first W&B in the
(maybe)=0A near future so this post is timely for me. I only have one com
ment. Since the=0A horizontal stabilizer/elevators have little to no air f
oil shape and that=0A shape is the same on bot top and bottom, there will
not be a pressure=0A difference. At these locations, it should not matter
on what side the gap=0A seal tape is applied.
=0A
=0A If the tail was shaped like the wing, then any tape on the top would w
ant to=0A pull up off of the surface...the low pressure top of the wing re
lative to the=0A higher pressure underneath.
=0A
=0A Michael Perez
=0A Karetaker Aero
=0A www.karetakeraero.com =0A =0A =C2- =0A =0A =0A =0A=0A=0A =C2-
=C2-_blank>www.aeroelectric.com/" target=_blank>www.buildersbooks.com
=_blank>www.homebuilthelp.comblank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution"
target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listp://forum
s.matronics.comblank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution =C2- =0A=0A=0A
=0A =C2- =C2-www.buildersbooks.comhttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pi
etenpol-Listhttp://forums.matronics.comhttp://www.matronics.com/contributio
n =C2- =0A=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: CG shift common sense check. Elevator/stab gap seal. |
| From: | "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com> |
Nope, no brakes in the front, and I only want to fly there for instruction. Just
amazed that balance wise it would be safe.
Mine has the same down elevator in level flight. However, even with down elevator,
there's still higher pressure on the top, there has to be. All stable airplanes
are nose heavy. CG range merely determines the safe range of nose heavy.
If there's down elevator at normal cruising speed, that means the horiz stab is
out of rig. You want the elevator lined up with the stab for normal cruise speed
for less drag.
At our speeds and such, it really isn't a big deal...
I agree, the tape on the bottom is just nicer looking. Dick had yellow tape that
matches the paint, so that helps! I'm just having a hard time keeping it on.
Tools
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=360534#360534
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | CG shift common sense check. Elevator/stab gap seal. |
Michael,
Didn't you ever fly a balsa glider as a kid? Those have sheet balsa wings
with no airfoil and they work just fine, at the correct angle of attack. Or
didn't you ever ride in a car with the window down and "fly" your hand in
the slipstream? You could generate either positive or negative lift, just
by changing the angle of attack.
Airfoils just work more efficiently than flat plates. By the way, unless
answering questions on an FAA exam, NEVER try to explain lift as a result of
"the Bernoulli Effect". If the Bernoulli Effect was responsible for
creating lift, no Pitts Special (except the early models with the M-6
airfoil), or Decathlon or Extra 300 could fly at all, since they have
symmetrical airfoils. Airfoils (including flat plates) work by deflecting
the air downward, pure and simple.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael
Perez
Sent: Friday, December 09, 2011 11:22 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: CG shift common sense check. Elevator/stab gap
seal.
Now that I have heard it again, I vaguely remember talk about tail
lift/pressure forces. I find it odd that our tail with it's relatively flat
profile does anything more then come along for the ride. I don't understand
how the tail, being symmetrical, can have any lifting force at all...top or
bottom. I would think the forces are equal and null each other out.
(thinking purely having the elevators level with horizontal.) But, it is
what it is and it works...can't argue that.
Michael Perez
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
--- On Fri, 12/9/11, Jack Phillips wrote:
From: Jack Phillips <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: CG shift common sense check. Elevator/stab gap
seal.
Date: Friday, December 9, 2011, 10:10 AM
I put gap seals (duct tape) on mine a couple of years ago. They fell off
(well, one did so I removed the other) on the way to Brodhead this summer.
There was a noticeable effect, but not much. What I noticed is that with
the elevator gaps sealed, I could lift the tail sooner on takeoff. It also
affected my trim somewhat. I have a spring-type trim system, and with the
gaps sealed, I ran out of nose up trim and still needed to hold a slight bit
of back pressure when I had a load in the baggage compartment (I have a nose
baggage compartment on my Pietenpol, since my fuel tank is in the
centersection). When the seals were removed, my trim spring was strong
enough to give me all the back pressure I needed, even with a load up front.
In regards to the recent discussion about the function of tails, the
horizontal tail provides downforce to hold the typical nose heavy airplane
level. in the case of most Pietenpols (and every one that I have flown), if
you look at the horizontal tail in flight, you will see a slight bit of down
elevator, indicating that the tail is actually providing a bit of lift.
This is likely a function of the Pietenpol's airfoil, and of the fact that
many Pietenpols (mine included) are flown with the CG near the aft edge of
the envelope. Adding gap seals apparently increases that tail lift force,
requiring more back pressure (or less forward pressure) to hold the plane in
level flight.
Here are a couple of pictures showing Pietenpols in level flight, showing
the slight down elevator:
Here is my Pietenpol in flight. You can see a slight down elevator (not
much, since I have my wife and a full load of baggage).
And here is Mike Cuy's, on the way to Brodhead, back in 2005:
Here is Greg Cardinal's
And here is another one (don't know who owns this one):
All show a similar amount of down elevator.
So in answer to which side the tape should go on, I put mine on the bottom,
not for aerodynamic reasons, but because a strip of grey duct tape is ugly.
To each his own.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
helspersew(at)aol.com
Sent: Friday, December 09, 2011 9:04 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: CG shift common sense check. Elevator/stab gap
seal.
I haven't seen too many (none that I can recall) elevator gap seals at
Brodhead. Is this really necessary? Just wondering.
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Sent: Fri, Dec 9, 2011 7:07 am
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: CG shift common sense check. Elevator/stab gap
seal.
I will be working my first W&B in the (maybe) near future so this post is
timely for me. I only have one comment. Since the horizontal
stabilizer/elevators have little to no air foil shape and that shape is the
same on bot top and bottom, there will not be a pressure difference. At
these locations, it should not matter on what side the gap seal tape is
applied.
If the tail was shaped like the wing, then any tape on the top would want to
pull up off of the surface...the low pressure top of the wing relative to
the higher pressure underneath.
Michael Perez
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com <http://www.karetakeraero.com/>
_blank>www.aeroelectric.com
/" target=_blank>www.buildersbooks.com
=_blank>www.homebuilthelp.com
blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
p://forums.matronics.com
blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
www.buildersbooks.com
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Work table thoughts, and rib jig done! |
| From: | Hans Van Der Voort <hvandervoo(at)aol.com> |
Early in my Piet project I made one large 4 X 16 feet table on casters.
It has been extended by 2 more feet for my next project.
With casters it easy to roll around with or without project on top.
Of course your workspace might limit the size of your table.
I do recommend plate mounted casters I beleive got them cheap at harbour fr
eight
No need to screw in to the end grain if you do it my way, see pic.
Hans
NX15KV
-----Original Message-----
From: Kringle <Mrkringles(at)msn.com>
Sent: Fri, Dec 9, 2011 5:09 am
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Work table thoughts, and rib jig done!
During the holidays i will be building some work tables. I will probably j
ust
se a standard 2x4 for the legs. I would like to install casters but don't
like
he plates or pin type as either wouldn't work well on the end of the 2x4.
I
nderstand the pins will wear the wood quickly and the plates are too large
and
don't like screwing into the end grain of a 2x4. If i can't do casters i
ould at least like to find a cap for the ends of the 2x4's that would preve
nt
he wood from splintering when the bench is drug along the floor. Any
uggestions?
--------
o Not Archive
ohn
ead this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=360503#360503
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Pietenpol Tail Aerodynamics |
I have seen on the web, (although I could not find a picture just now to post)
of planes (STOL type) with a large upside-down looking airfoil shape on the horizontal
stabilizer. Perhaps this idea can help with the tail heavy woes of the
Pietenpol that I hear about.
Michael Perez
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: CG shift common sense check. Elevator/stab gap seal. |
| From: | "Piet2112" <curtdm(at)gmail.com> |
Are all of the pictured Piets in this thread built using the improved plans for
the horizontal stabilizer? If so, it might be an illusion because of the swept
ends of the horizontal stabilizer in relation to the elevators.
Someone needs to note their stick angle with a protractor when the elevator is
held in the neutral position on the ground and compare that to it's position
during straight and level flight.
Anyone have an Angle of Attack indicator on their Piet?
Curt Merdan
Flower Mound, TX
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=360538#360538
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0876_718.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0875_199.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Work table thoughts, and rib jig done! |
| From: | "Catdesigns" <Catdesigns(at)att.net> |
Kringle
Look at the workbench in the following links. The legs are 2x4 (kiln dried).
Each leg is 2 pieces screwed together to form an L. The bottom of each leg has
a 8-inch piece of 2x4 on the inside of the L. This is where the casters plates
are screwed into the legs with small lag bolts. The top of the 8-inch piece
serves as a support for the shelf which in turn has 2x4s around the underside
parameter. The top is two solid core doors. The top is the same height as
my table saw so it can work as an out feed table. I move this workbench all over
the place including out to the back porch when I am ripping large quantities
of wood. The wheels have stayed put just fine in the end grain. Add the casters
and you wont regret it.
http://www.westcoastpiet.com/images/Chris%20Tracy/images/IMG_5992.JPG
http://www.westcoastpiet.com/images/Chris%20Tracy/images/IMG_5024.JPG
--------
Chris
Sacramento, CA
WestCoastPiet.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=360540#360540
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "C N Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol Tail Aerodynamics |
Upside down airfoil would make the airplane more tail heavy, wouldn't
it?
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Perez
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, December 09, 2011 12:41 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol Tail Aerodynamics
I have seen on the web, (although I could not find a picture
just now to post) of planes (STOL type) with a large upside-down looking
airfoil shape on the horizontal stabilizer. Perhaps this idea can help
with the tail heavy woes of the Pietenpol that I hear about.
Michael Perez
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol Tail Aerodynamics |
The Zenith 701 has a inverted stabiliser.
http://www.zenithair.com/stolch701/index1.html
Regards
Gerry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol Tail Aerodynamics |
Gets confusing doesn't it?-
Michael Perez
=0AKaretaker Aero
=0Awww.karetakeraero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol Tail Aerodynamics |
| From: | "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca> |
Here's Chris Heintz's reason for the inverted airfoil on the horizontal stab of
his 701 STOL design, and an explanation of how it works.
Obviously, if it works on that plane, it would also be a good idea for the Pietenpol...
;) (just kidding).
Aircraft design isn't all cut and dried. It can be very complicated stuff. That's
why I choose not to mess around with it. The Air Camper has a known characteristic
of flying with a slightly drooping elevator in level flight. I'm okay
with that. I'm sticking to the plans.
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=360558#360558
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/zenith_hstab_301.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol Tail Aerodynamics |
| From: | gboothe5(at)comcast.net |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________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol Tail Aerodynamics |
| From: | Lloyd Smith <lesmith240(at)gmail.com> |
You're confusing static CG with aerodynamics. Unless in motion through the
air, the horizontal/elevator will always exert the same weight in a level
attitude. And yes, the "upside down airfoil" would make the tail be
"heavy" in flight. This, as mentioned earlier, will offset the normal
relationship of CG vs. Center of Lift where the CG is forward of the Center
of Lift, there by making the airplane, in flight, think it is nose heavy.
See this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PLtqzN4gDc
On Fri, Dec 9, 2011 at 1:51 PM, C N Campbell wrote:
> **
> Upside down airfoil would make the airplane more tail heavy, wouldn't it?
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Michael Perez
> *To:* pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> *Sent:* Friday, December 09, 2011 12:41 PM
> *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol Tail Aerodynamics
>
> I have seen on the web, (although I could not find a picture just now
> to post) of planes (STOL type) with a large upside-down looking airfoil
> shape on the horizontal stabilizer. Perhaps this idea can help with the
> tail heavy woes of the Pietenpol that I hear about.
>
> Michael Perez
> Karetaker Aero
> www.karetakeraero.com
>
> *
>
> href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
> href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
> href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c*
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
--
"The problem with America is stupidity. I'm not saying there should be
capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the safety
labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?" (anon)
Boones Mill, VA
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol Tail Aerodynamics |
| From: | Lloyd Smith <lesmith240(at)gmail.com> |
Another brief vid:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cyC0i_zOqkg
On Fri, Dec 9, 2011 at 4:53 PM, Lloyd Smith wrote:
> You're confusing static CG with aerodynamics. Unless in motion through
> the air, the horizontal/elevator will always exert the same weight in a
> level attitude. And yes, the "upside down airfoil" would make the tail be
> "heavy" in flight. This, as mentioned earlier, will offset the normal
> relationship of CG vs. Center of Lift where the CG is forward of the Center
> of Lift, there by making the airplane, in flight, think it is nose heavy.
>
> See this video:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PLtqzN4gDc
>
> On Fri, Dec 9, 2011 at 1:51 PM, C N Campbell wrote:
>
>> **
>> Upside down airfoil would make the airplane more tail heavy, wouldn't it?
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> *From:* Michael Perez
>> *To:* pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>> *Sent:* Friday, December 09, 2011 12:41 PM
>> *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol Tail Aerodynamics
>>
>> I have seen on the web, (although I could not find a picture just now
>> to post) of planes (STOL type) with a large upside-down looking airfoil
>> shape on the horizontal stabilizer. Perhaps this idea can help with the
>> tail heavy woes of the Pietenpol that I hear about.
>>
>> Michael Perez
>> Karetaker Aero
>> www.karetakeraero.com
>>
>> **
>>
>>
--
"The problem with America is stupidity. I'm not saying there should be
capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the safety
labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?" (anon)
Boones Mill, VA
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | CG shift answer. |
| From: | "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com> |
Well, threw my son in the back and we took it out for a flight. Observations...
First, flying from the front sucks! I have no clue how he did it. Just not very
ergonomic.
Second, no obvious difference in handling. However, we were flying a lot faster,
like 5 to 10 mph faster. I'm wondering if the shift brought the elevators
in line with the stab and reduced drag enough to cause that.
Also, while awful cold (for us, somewhere in the 50's), it really seemed to climb
a lot better as well. I'm definitely interested in whether a drag reduction
is the reason for all of this.
If so, I'm thinking really comprehensive trimming of these things might be a really
good idea.
Tools
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=360568#360568
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | airlion <airlion(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol Tail Aerodynamics |
All this talk about tail aerodynamics can get very confusing. I have never
worried about it because my tail always goes where I point my nose. I do have a
gap seal and the plane flew beautifully. Cheers, Gardiner
________________________________
From: Lloyd Smith <lesmith240(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Fri, December 9, 2011 4:59:08 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol Tail Aerodynamics
Another brief vid:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cyC0i_zOqkg
On Fri, Dec 9, 2011 at 4:53 PM, Lloyd Smith wrote:
You're confusing static CG with aerodynamics. Unless in motion through the air,
the horizontal/elevator will always exert the same weight in a level attitude.
And yes, the "upside down airfoil" would make the tail be "heavy" in flight.
This, as mentioned earlier, will offset the normal relationship of CG vs. Center
of Lift where the CG is forward of the Center of Lift, there by making the
airplane, in flight, think it is nose heavy.
>
>See this video:
>
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PLtqzN4gDc
>
>
>On Fri, Dec 9, 2011 at 1:51 PM, C N Campbell wrote:
>
>
>>Upside down airfoil would make the airplane more tail heavy, wouldn't it?
>>----- Original Message -----
>>>From: Michael Perez
>>>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>>>Sent: Friday, December 09, 2011 12:41 PM
>>>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol Tail Aerodynamics
>>>
>>>
>>>I have seen on the web, (although I could not find a picture just now
>>>to post) of planes (STOL type) with a large upside-down looking airfoil
>>>shape on the horizontal stabilizer. Perhaps this idea can help with
the
>>>tail heavy woes of the Pietenpol that I hear about.
>>>
>>>Michael Perez
>>>Karetaker Aero
>>>www.karetakeraero.com
>>>
>>>
--
"The problem with America is stupidity. I'm not saying there should be capital
punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the safety labels off of
everything and let the problem solve itself?" (anon)
Boones Mill, VA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol Tail Aerodynamics |
Crew, before this gets too far out of hand...I see my lame attempt for some backwards
humor has failed, so my apologies to the list. Rather then muddy up the
original post, I started this new thread. (I figured it couldn't hurt with the
Ken and cow thread already out there.)
Michael Perez
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Work table thoughts, and rib jig done! |
An alternative:
-
I made this bench entirely of 3/4" plywood. As you can see, the main frame
- contains storage shelves which also make it strong and sturdy. Each "wi
ng" is hinged to the frame with piano hinge and supported with removable le
gs.-Castors allow mobility and these particular ones lock.-Both wings f
old down to cover both sides of the main frame, they are held in place with
magnetic catches....you can latch/lock them in this position for security.
Best part...it stores nicely up against a wall or in a corner.
Michael Perez
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: A new Piet takes to the air |
| From: | "Pieti Lowell" <Lowellcfrank(at)yahoo.com> |
Don:
The videos are great, how many years did it take to get it in the air and what
were some of the stumbling blocks. just for the reader's knowledge.
She is a beauty, and fast,
Pieti Lowell
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=360645#360645
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | tail incidence, gap seals, and hangar friends |
This post has nothing to do with tail incidence and gap seals except to say that
if you build an Air Camper to the plans and know how to fly stick and rudder, you
will never know or care much about tail incidence, gap seals, symmetrical airfoils,
or
V-tail Bonanazas. You will fly the airplane and love it! Don't over-think the
tailplane geometry, symmetry, aerodynamics, or any of it. Build to plans and you
can tinker with that stuff (like Jack has) later.
I have flown Scout from both cockpits. I prefer flying it from the rear because
there is more room there, it's easier to get in and out (although not by much,
in
my case), and as others have mentioned, the visibility is better there. From the
rear cockpit you can see what the wing, ailerons, tail, and landing gear are doing
as well. In the case of Scout, the rear cockpit is the only position that has a
fuel shutoff valve, carb heat control, and brakes (if those matter to you). What
I
liked about flying from the front cockpit (dual, since my airplane cannot be
soloed from the front cockpit and stay within posted W&B limits)- was the exhilarating
sensation of having the prop and cooling eyebrows *right there* in front of me,
and of being literally right over the landing gear and right under the wing. It
was like driving a sports car, because in the front cockpit you are almost at the
most magical focal point of where everything in the airplane is triangulated, and
in fact you really are, at least as far as the four forces that act on the
airplane (lift, gravity, thrust, and drag). It was fun, but not for long and
relaxed flying. What I do enjoy is flying navigator position up in the front
cockpit with my hangar mate Craig flying the airplane in back. Almost like back
in the early days of flying. We hope to ferry the airplane from Texas to Oregon
next spring in just that fashion... him flying the airplane, me up front with
the GPS and maps, and my hands waving in the propwash, pointing the direction.
Last of all, it was a great joy to see friend and Piet restorer John Kuhfahl today
at the hangar as I was loading all of my tools and "junk" into the UHaul to move
it back to Texas. John has been silent on the list for awhile, busy with
family duties, but still looking forward to joining up on my wing one of these
days when he gets his restoration completed and begins to understand why these
airplanes not only hook us on the ground as we enjoy working with wood and fabric,
but then we get to fall in love with flying all over again as they show us
what real flying is all about. True, honest, and genuine stick and rudder
aviation. If you learn to fly in these airplanes, you learn to FLY. Period.
Merry Christmas, all y'all, and I'll be on Interstate 10 west to Phoenix and then
the L.A. basin by Tuesday, then turning north on Interstate 5 and on up to Oregon
and hopefully home by late Wednesday night. I'll be the 20 ft. UHaul van with
a partially completed 1835 VW powered Flying Squirrel loaded on a vehicle
transporter behind the van. The only one you'll see on the highway with that
particular load.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
Flying Squirrel N2069Z "Rocket"
Medford, OR
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "regchief" <kbosley(at)comcast.net> |
or maybe why they are easier to tip to the north, when they are pointing east or
west.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=360671#360671
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave Nielsen <sentuchows(at)aol.com> |
If anyone is interested they are called rumen magnets. The are forced down
the throat of calves. They remain in the first stomach to pick up scrap met
al that may be ingested. You can go to the packing house and get all of the
m you want. They generally salvage them when the cattle are put down and pr
ocessed. Now everybody knows.
"Bat Cave" Dave
-----Original Message-----
From: regchief <kbosley(at)comcast.net>
Sent: Sun, Dec 11, 2011 10:19 am
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: magnets
or maybe why they are easier to tip to the north, when they are pointing ea
st or
est.
ead this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=360671#360671
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________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Air Camper for sale in UK. |
Thought this might be of interest.
http://www.afors.com/index.php?page=adview&adid=21116&imid=0
Regards
Gerry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com> |
My son soloed our Piet today! Should be giving rides by Brodhead!
Got some good pics and great video, but left the camera in the plane, should be
able to post them tomorrow.
Kinda funny, a perfect approach and touchdown, but when he lapped the stick after
touching down, UP he goes again! Flies much slower without my 180lbs in there
as it turns out. Hilarious.
Does anyone know any feds or examiners that'll check you out in a Piet?
Tools
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=360707#360707
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark Stanley" <mmrally(at)nifty.com> |
| Subject: | Piet People- Hi again from Japan |
Hiho again from Mark in Japan to everybody on the Piet list,
It=1B$B!G=1B(Bs been a long time since I posted anything (or have been
on the list...) but I thought I would just say G=1B$B!G=1B(Bday again
and let the group know that Piet #=1B$B!G=1B(Bs 1 & 2 are still in alive
here in Japan land.
Currently not much progress at all but the urge is still there. I
can=1B$B!G=1B(Bt see much in the way of progress happeneing in leaps and
bounds very soon but as the urge is still knawing away so the Piet
should get done eventually....probally later rather than sooner.
Both Piet projects here were shaken around a bit during the big quake
this year (we had level 6+ where the Piets are) but nothing was damaged.
We were so much luckier than many other poor souls further up north
they had it tough.
Well anyway, this is just a short hello again note to all, I will lurk
around and may stick my nose in occasionally if you all don=1B$B!G=1B(Bt
mind.
Safe flying
Mark
Japan
Piet project #2
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Piet People- Hi again from Japan |
Thanks for checking in, Mark; but what's the hold up?
Gary Boothe
NX308MB
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Stanley
Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2011 3:54 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet People- Hi again from Japan
Hiho again from Mark in Japan to everybody on the Piet list,
It's been a long time since I posted anything (or have been on the list...)
but I thought I would just say G'day again and let the group know that Piet
#'s 1 & 2 are still in alive here in Japan land.
Currently not much progress at all but the urge is still there. I can't see
much in the way of progress happeneing in leaps and bounds very soon but as
the urge is still knawing away so the Piet should get done
eventually....probally later rather than sooner.
Both Piet projects here were shaken around a bit during the big quake this
year (we had level 6+ where the Piets are) but nothing was damaged. We were
so much luckier than many other poor souls further up north they had it
tough.
Well anyway, this is just a short hello again note to all, I will lurk
around and may stick my nose in occasionally if you all don't mind.
Safe flying
Mark
Japan
Piet project #2
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Piet builders in northern ill southern wi. |
| From: | "schuerrman" <sdschuerr(at)live.com> |
Hey, I have my fuse mostly done and I was wondering if there's anyone that has
a plane I could look at. I've got a stack of visual questions. Thanks.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=360717#360717
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack" <jack(at)textors.com> |
Good morning all,
It's time to order covering supplies and with that I would appreciate your
thoughts. I've searched the archives and pictures, thanks to many and Oscar
for your posts on materials needed. It looks like many people used pinked
finishing tape. Is that best? Also wondering if bias tape is worth the
extra price. Flat or round thread? Any thoughts to help would be great.
I'm planning on 1.7 oz material and water based products.
Thanks,
Jack
NX1929T
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Thanks for the help--archives--formation fly in spring |
| From: | John Kuhfahl <kuhlcouper(at)gmail.com> |
I'm the one restoring/improving a 1970's Piet. I am a self-admitted
lurker--You guys and this list are the best...In the archives you taught me
how to hook up my tail wheel. (it was not made steerable originally). I
am definitely going with compression springs in my cable control. They run
nicely through the large belly inspection plate I installed.
Will try to get this guy back together by this spring to formation fly with
Oscar Zungia before he brings his baby back to Oregon.
--
John Kuhfahl, Lt Col USAF (Ret),
President, KUHLCOUPER LLC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gboothe5" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
Jack,
For the few curves that I have, I made my own bias pieces out of scraps.
Mostly 2" pinked, some 3" pinked. Note that some 1.7 oz material does NOT
come in wide enough rolls to cover one side of the wing.
Best wishes,
Gary from Cool
NX308MB
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack
Sent: Monday, December 12, 2011 4:07 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Covering
Good morning all,
It's time to order covering supplies and with that I would appreciate your
thoughts. I've searched the archives and pictures, thanks to many and Oscar
for your posts on materials needed. It looks like many people used pinked
finishing tape. Is that best? Also wondering if bias tape is worth the
extra price. Flat or round thread? Any thoughts to help would be great.
I'm planning on 1.7 oz material and water based products.
Thanks,
Jack
NX1929T
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
Jack,
Pinked edge tapes are much easier to keep from peeling up. You won't need
much bias ply tape, but there are a few places wher it is helpful, such as
going around the top of the vertical fin - no way you'll get regular tape to
lay down properly there. You won't need much - just buy a small roll of 4"
bias tape and that should be plenty.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack
Sent: Monday, December 12, 2011 7:07 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Covering
Good morning all,
It's time to order covering supplies and with that I would appreciate your
thoughts. I've searched the archives and pictures, thanks to many and Oscar
for your posts on materials needed. It looks like many people used pinked
finishing tape. Is that best? Also wondering if bias tape is worth the
extra price. Flat or round thread? Any thoughts to help would be great.
I'm planning on 1.7 oz material and water based products.
Thanks,
Jack
NX1929T
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
Again, what a timely post! I am preparing to order some covering materials
as well so I can start on the tail pieces.- Check out superflite.com- T
hey sell 1.7 fabric- at 72" wide...great for our wings.
If you are going with the Stewart's Ekobond, (I am) Aircraft Spruce sells i
t...in case you will be placing an order with them anyway.
Michael Perez
=0AKaretaker Aero
=0Awww.karetakeraero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Operation Arrow Fest II |
This week is my last at work until the 9th of January. During my vacation t
ime, I will execute operation Arrow Fest II...my build-athon as last year.
- This time I will focus on obtaining the materials needed for covering.
My plan is to start with the tails pieces.-- I plan to use the 1.7 oz.
fabric from superflite.com and the Stewart's ekobond. Not clear on finishin
g tapes, anti-chafe tapes, type of tape edge, bias ply, widths, stitching c
ord, needles, knots, stitch spacing, etc.- So any help in these areas wou
ld be appreciated!- Stewart's website has the fabric covering manual whic
h I will reference as needed.
I may also continue to tinker with my fuel tank...that is proving to be a s
low process, but it is coming along.
Michael Perez
=0AKaretaker Aero
=0Awww.karetakeraero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Operation Arrow Fest II |
Michael, If I might make a suggestion, start with reading the ENTIRE
covering manual, then read it again. The when you are ready to start
covering, re-read the section pertaining to the part of the airframe you are
covering. If the Stewart manual is as good as the PolyFiber manual, you
should have no problems.
I love fabric covering. To me, this is the very best part of the entire
building process, where you take odd pieces of framework and turn them into
parts of an airplane that can actually FLY.
Good luck!
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael
Perez
Sent: Monday, December 12, 2011 9:39 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Operation Arrow Fest II
This week is my last at work until the 9th of January. During my vacation
time, I will execute operation Arrow Fest II...my build-athon as last year.
This time I will focus on obtaining the materials needed for covering. My
plan is to start with the tails pieces. I plan to use the 1.7 oz. fabric
from superflite.com and the Stewart's ekobond. Not clear on finishing tapes,
anti-chafe tapes, type of tape edge, bias ply, widths, stitching cord,
needles, knots, stitch spacing, etc. So any help in these areas would be
appreciated! Stewart's website has the fabric covering manual which I will
reference as needed.
I may also continue to tinker with my fuel tank...that is proving to be a
slow process, but it is coming along.
Michael Perez
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Marvin Haught <handainc(at)madisoncounty.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Operation Arrow Fest II |
Michael -
I am a Stewart Systems distributor - I can provide you with a DVD set
that takes you through the entire process, step by step. The set is
$20, refundable with your first purchase of products. The DVD set can
be copied (it shows a copyright, but Stewart's allow unlimited copying).
I teach seminars and do weekend instructions sessions with customer
where we will spend 3 days and cover tail parts or ailerons teaching the
entire process up through painting. Cost for the seminar is $300 per
person, 10 to a session which is 3 days. Cost for the individual
training is $750 plus expenses.
I'll be happy to answer any questions you or any of the folks here might
have about the covering process. I have a customer covering a Piet
right now in Branson, MO.
I carry a pretty complete line of products, except for paint, which drop
ships only from Cashmere, WA. aircraftfinishes(at)gmail.com
M. Haught
On 12/12/2011 9:52 AM, Jack Phillips wrote:
>
> Michael, If I might make a suggestion, start with reading the ENTIRE
> covering manual, then read it again. The when you are ready to start
> covering, re-read the section pertaining to the part of the airframe
> you are covering. If the Stewart manual is as good as the PolyFiber
> manual, you should have no problems.
>
> I love fabric covering. To me, this is the very best part of the
> entire building process, where you take odd pieces of framework and
> turn them into parts of an airplane that can actually FLY.
>
> Good luck!
>
> Jack Phillips
>
> NX899JP
>
> Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:*owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of
> *Michael Perez
> *Sent:* Monday, December 12, 2011 9:39 AM
> *To:* pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: Operation Arrow Fest II
>
> This week is my last at work until the 9th of January. During my
> vacation time, I will execute operation Arrow Fest II...my build-athon
> as last year. This time I will focus on obtaining the materials
> needed for covering. My plan is to start with the tails pieces. I
> plan to use the 1.7 oz. fabric from superflite.com and the Stewart's
> ekobond. Not clear on finishing tapes, anti-chafe tapes, type of tape
> edge, bias ply, widths, stitching cord, needles, knots, stitch
> spacing, etc. So any help in these areas would be appreciated!
> Stewart's website has the fabric covering manual which I will
> reference as needed.
>
> I may also continue to tinker with my fuel tank...that is proving to
> be a slow process, but it is coming along.
>
> Michael Perez
> Karetaker Aero
> www.karetakeraero.com
>
> * *
> * *
> **
> **
> **
> **
> *www.buildersbooks.com*
> **
> **
> **
> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List*
> **
> **
> *http://forums.matronics.com*
> **
> **
> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
> * *
> *
>
>
> *
--
H.Marvin Haught Jr.
Haught& Associates, Inc
Huntsville, AR 72740
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Operation Arrow Fest II |
Agreed Jack. I have read the Stewart's manual twice now...over about a one
year period. The last time was about 2 months ago.- I'll read it again he
re soon...I need a better Idea what to order... and have it handy while in
work.
My plan is to have the tail assembly ready for flight...covered, taped, sti
tched painted, tail number, etc. by the end of the three weeks.
When I first started out on my build, I was looking forward to building the
fuselage the most. Now that the fuselage is pretty much complete, I am REA
LLY looking forward to doing some fabric and painting! It will be a while b
efore I cover the fuselage, but the tail is a good place to get started. Th
is week can't end soon enough.
Michael Perez
=0AKaretaker Aero
=0Awww.karetakeraero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: New Piet pilot. |
| From: | "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com> |
Here's some video links.
Starting him up for his first takeoff.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EU_3M-L1S5s&feature=autoplay&list=UUXbTv9Gz1Fby7rilqnvmTpw&lf=plcp&playnext=1
Here's his first landing, really bad video and 2nd takeoff.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-fcDmT3Mbg&feature=autoplay&list=UUXbTv9Gz1Fby7rilqnvmTpw&lf=plcp&playnext=1
2nd landing, about like the first.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fn7PG5UJKzc&list=UUXbTv9Gz1Fby7rilqnvmTpw&feature=plcp
His third takeoff and then almost his last landing, but the camera died. Of course,
he nailed that one!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Khj0AOAdSVY&list=UUXbTv9Gz1Fby7rilqnvmTpw&feature=plcp
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ychQFFekmsE&list=UUXbTv9Gz1Fby7rilqnvmTpw&feature=plcp
Really neat to watch him do that.
Tools
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=360780#360780
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: New Piet pilot. |
| From: | Ken Bickers <bickers.ken(at)gmail.com> |
Congratulations to your son. First solo -- and in a Pietenpol -- will
be a story to share for the rest of his days. Cheers, Ken
On Mon, Dec 12, 2011 at 2:53 PM, tools wrote:
>
> Here's some video links.
>
> Starting him up for his first takeoff.
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EU_3M-L1S5s&feature=autoplay&list=UUXbTv9Gz1Fby7rilqnvmTpw&lf=plcp&playnext=1
>
> Here's his first landing, really bad video and 2nd takeoff.
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-fcDmT3Mbg&feature=autoplay&list=UUXbTv9Gz1Fby7rilqnvmTpw&lf=plcp&playnext=1
>
> 2nd landing, about like the first.
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fn7PG5UJKzc&list=UUXbTv9Gz1Fby7rilqnvmTpw&feature=plcp
>
> His third takeoff and then almost his last landing, but the camera died. Of course,
he nailed that one!
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Khj0AOAdSVY&list=UUXbTv9Gz1Fby7rilqnvmTpw&feature=plcp
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ychQFFekmsE&list=UUXbTv9Gz1Fby7rilqnvmTpw&feature=plcp
>
> Really neat to watch him do that.
>
> Tools
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=360780#360780
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Kuhfahl <kuhlcouper(at)gmail.com> |
I'm the one restoring/improving a 1970's Piet. I am a self-admitted
lurker--You guys and this list are the best...In the archives you taught me
how to hook up my tail wheel. (it was not made steerable originally). I
am definitely going with compression springs in my cable control. They run
nicely through the large belly inspection plate I installed.
Will try to get this guy back together by this spring to formation fly with
Oscar Zungia before he brings his baby back to Oregon.
--
John Kuhfahl, Lt Col USAF (Ret),
President, KUHLCOUPER LLC
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Aileron Cables rubbing on the fuselage frame... |
| From: | "aerocarjake" <flight.jake(at)gmail.com> |
Hello List,
I have mocked up the flight controls in my Piet and am finding that if the cabaine
struts are vertical then the aileron cables rub on the fuselage frame per
the attached image. (Many Piets have their cabaine struts slanted aft a few inches
for weight-and-balance, but I want to protect for some adjustment and allow
them to be vertical without control cable rubbing problems.)
Question: Has anyone ever moved the aileron control horn aft on the control bar
to help alleviate this problem... or does this just cause some other problem
I am not aware of.....?!?!? (I am considering 1 & 1/2 inches aft)
Moving the horn aft would also mean that I would have to move the forward pulley
(which is on the control bar) aft and I am not sure if that would be a problem
as well......!?!??!
.....or is there some other fix that people have done....?!?!?!?
It also seems like the aileron control cables are awfully close to rubbing on the
cross brace cables for the cabaine struts....!?!?!?
Thanks in advance for any help............
--------
Jake Schultz - curator,
Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=360791#360791
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/aileron_cables_problem_176.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "C N Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Aileron Cables rubbing on the fuselage frame... |
I could move my aileron horn without moving the pulley (except that mine are
already welded. If I wanted to move the horn I would have to start over).
Why do you think you would have to move the pulley? They are completely
seperate items.
----- Original Message -----
From: "aerocarjake" <flight.jake(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, December 12, 2011 8:17 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Aileron Cables rubbing on the fuselage frame...
>
>
> Hello List,
>
> I have mocked up the flight controls in my Piet and am finding that if the
> cabaine struts are vertical then the aileron cables rub on the fuselage
> frame per the attached image. (Many Piets have their cabaine struts
> slanted aft a few inches for weight-and-balance, but I want to protect for
> some adjustment and allow them to be vertical without control cable
> rubbing problems.)
>
> Question: Has anyone ever moved the aileron control horn aft on the
> control bar to help alleviate this problem... or does this just cause some
> other problem I am not aware of.....?!?!? (I am considering 1 & 1/2
> inches aft)
>
> Moving the horn aft would also mean that I would have to move the forward
> pulley (which is on the control bar) aft and I am not sure if that would
> be a problem as well......!?!??!
>
> .....or is there some other fix that people have done....?!?!?!?
>
> It also seems like the aileron control cables are awfully close to rubbing
> on the cross brace cables for the cabaine struts....!?!?!?
>
> Thanks in advance for any help............
>
> --------
> Jake Schultz - curator,
> Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home)
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=360791#360791
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/aileron_cables_problem_176.jpg
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Aileron Cables rubbing on the fuselage frame... |
| From: | "aerocarjake" <flight.jake(at)gmail.com> |
Guess I just figure I could beef them up a tad and separate them but per the plans
it looks like they integrate/work together structurally nicely when they are
welded as a set....??!!?!?!?
--------
Jake Schultz - curator,
Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=360798#360798
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Aileron Cables rubbing on the fuselage frame... |
As I recall, my aileron cables had some interference, which I eliminated by
judicious application of a hammer on the control horns on the torque tube.
Do what you've got to do.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of aerocarjake
Sent: Monday, December 12, 2011 8:17 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Aileron Cables rubbing on the fuselage frame...
Hello List,
I have mocked up the flight controls in my Piet and am finding that if the
cabaine struts are vertical then the aileron cables rub on the fuselage
frame per the attached image. (Many Piets have their cabaine struts slanted
aft a few inches for weight-and-balance, but I want to protect for some
adjustment and allow them to be vertical without control cable rubbing
problems.)
Question: Has anyone ever moved the aileron control horn aft on the control
bar to help alleviate this problem... or does this just cause some other
problem I am not aware of.....?!?!? (I am considering 1 & 1/2 inches aft)
Moving the horn aft would also mean that I would have to move the forward
pulley (which is on the control bar) aft and I am not sure if that would be
a problem as well......!?!??!
.....or is there some other fix that people have done....?!?!?!?
It also seems like the aileron control cables are awfully close to rubbing
on the cross brace cables for the cabaine struts....!?!?!?
Thanks in advance for any help............
--------
Jake Schultz - curator,
Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=360791#360791
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/aileron_cables_problem_176.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | AMsafetyC(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | shamelwaa uas of the forum |
I know that this is both shameless and unorthodox use of our beloved board,
however I have no other way to contact everyone at large at such an
important time. However I thought it important enough to run the risk of such
an
action.
I have been successful in securing special introductory pricing concessions
from the owner of _www.AristoKrafts.com_ (http://www.aristokrafts.com/)
to create a special series of Christmas ornaments for the Pietenpol
Builders and owners community. For a limited time She will accept pre Christmas
orders at the special price to create your own personalized ornament
depicting your Pietenpol on the ornament with the tail number and your particular
scheme.
Each ornament is a hand painted artistic rendition of your Pietenpol its
the perfect gif for the flyer in your family, the Piet in your hangar and an
inspiration for the builder. The good news is that even if you don't have
it completed but would like your own Ornament you can order one anyway just
provide your tail number detailed color scheme and engine selection and you
order will be processed as received and assigned its authentication number
in the series with out duplication.
All this for the low introductory price of $19.99 plus shipping and
handling but wait if you order 4 or more the shipping is free. Exclusive of rush
orders or special handling requests or out of the USA shipments. This a
specially negotiated price for the Pietenpol Community.
I will put a link on my FB page for you to reference back to.
My apologies, this was just too good not to share with my friends.
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Aileron Cables rubbing on the fuselage frame... |
| From: | helspersew(at)aol.com |
In a few places on my plane, I glued on small blocks of phenolic strategica
lly placed as rub strips. You should have seen the maze of cables/wires/tub
es in back of the pilot seat panel..sheeeeesh! It would be a miracle if it
all fit in properly
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN
-----Original Message-----
From: Jack Phillips <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Sent: Mon, Dec 12, 2011 8:27 pm
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Aileron Cables rubbing on the fuselage frame..
.
et>
As I recall, my aileron cables had some interference, which I eliminated by
udicious application of a hammer on the control horns on the torque tube.
Do what you've got to do.
Jack Phillips
X899JP
mith Mountain Lake, Virginia
-----Original Message-----
rom: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of aerocarjake
ent: Monday, December 12, 2011 8:17 PM
o: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
ubject: Pietenpol-List: Aileron Cables rubbing on the fuselage frame...
Hello List,
I have mocked up the flight controls in my Piet and am finding that if the
abaine struts are vertical then the aileron cables rub on the fuselage
rame per the attached image. (Many Piets have their cabaine struts slanted
ft a few inches for weight-and-balance, but I want to protect for some
djustment and allow them to be vertical without control cable rubbing
roblems.)
Question: Has anyone ever moved the aileron control horn aft on the contro
l
ar to help alleviate this problem... or does this just cause some other
roblem I am not aware of.....?!?!? (I am considering 1 & 1/2 inches aft)
Moving the horn aft would also mean that I would have to move the forward
ulley (which is on the control bar) aft and I am not sure if that would be
problem as well......!?!??!
.....or is there some other fix that people have done....?!?!?!?
It also seems like the aileron control cables are awfully close to rubbing
n the cross brace cables for the cabaine struts....!?!?!?
Thanks in advance for any help............
--------
ake Schultz - curator,
ewport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home)
ead this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=360791#360791
ttachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/aileron_cables_problem_176.jpg
-========================
-
-= -- Please Support Your Lists This Month --
-= (And Get Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!)
-
-= November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Click on
-= the Contribution link below to find out more about
-= this year's Terrific Free Incentive Gifts provided
-= by:
-=
-= * AeroElectric www.aeroelectric.com
-= * The Builder's Bookstore www.buildersbooks.com
-= * HomebuiltHELP www.homebuilthelp.com
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-========================
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-= Same great content also available via the Web Forums!
-
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-
-========================
-= - List Contribution Web Site -
-= Thank you for your generous support!
-= -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
-========================
-----Original Message-----
From: Jack Phillips <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Sent: Mon, Dec 12, 2011 8:27 pm
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Aileron Cables rubbing on the fuselage frame..
.
et>
As I recall, my aileron cables had some interference, which I eliminated by
udicious application of a hammer on the control horns on the torque tube.
Do what you've got to do.
Jack Phillips
X899JP
mith Mountain Lake, Virginia
-----Original Message-----
rom: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of aerocarjake
ent: Monday, December 12, 2011 8:17 PM
o: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
ubject: Pietenpol-List: Aileron Cables rubbing on the fuselage frame...
Hello List,
I have mocked up the flight controls in my Piet and am finding that if the
abaine struts are vertical then the aileron cables rub on the fuselage
rame per the attached image. (Many Piets have their cabaine struts slanted
ft a few inches for weight-and-balance, but I want to protect for some
djustment and allow them to be vertical without control cable rubbing
roblems.)
Question: Has anyone ever moved the aileron control horn aft on the contro
l
ar to help alleviate this problem... or does this just cause some other
roblem I am not aware of.....?!?!? (I am considering 1 & 1/2 inches aft)
Moving the horn aft would also mean that I would have to move the forward
ulley (which is on the control bar) aft and I am not sure if that would be
problem as well......!?!??!
.....or is there some other fix that people have done....?!?!?!?
It also seems like the aileron control cables are awfully close to rubbing
n the cross brace cables for the cabaine struts....!?!?!?
Thanks in advance for any help............
--------
ake Schultz - curator,
ewport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home)
ead this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=360791#360791
ttachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/aileron_cables_problem_176.jpg
-========================
-
-= -- Please Support Your Lists This Month --
-= (And Get Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!)
-
-= November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Click on
-= the Contribution link below to find out more about
-= this year's Terrific Free Incentive Gifts provided
-= by:
-=
-= * AeroElectric www.aeroelectric.com
-= * The Builder's Bookstore www.buildersbooks.com
-= * HomebuiltHELP www.homebuilthelp.com
-
-= List Contribution Web Site:
-
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
-
-= Thank you for your generous support!
-
-= -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
-
-========================
-= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum -
-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
-= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
-= Photoshare, and much much more:
-
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
-
-========================
-= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
-= Same great content also available via the Web Forums!
-
-= --> http://forums.matronics.com
-
-========================
-= - List Contribution Web Site -
-= Thank you for your generous support!
-= -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
-========================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gene Rambo <generambo(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | shamelwaa uas of the forum |
If Helsper orders one=2C just have her paint two just alike=2C N number NX8
98H. :) Gene
From: AMsafetyC(at)aol.com
Date: Mon=2C 12 Dec 2011 21:37:27 -0500
Subject: Pietenpol-List: shamelwaa uas of the forum
I know that this is both shameless and unorthodox use of our beloved board
=2C
however I have no other way to contact everyone at large at such an importa
nt
time. However I thought it important enough to run the risk of such an
action.
I have been successful in securing special introductory pricing concessions
from the owner of www.AristoKrafts.com to create a
special series of Christmas ornaments for the Pietenpol Builders and owners
community. For a limited time She will accept pre Christmas orders at the
special price to create your own personalized ornament depicting your Piete
npol
on the ornament with the tail number and your particular scheme.
Each ornament is a hand painted artistic rendition of your Pietenpol its
the perfect gif for the flyer in your family=2C the Piet in your hangar and
an
inspiration for the builder. The good news is that even if you don't have i
t
completed but would like your own Ornament you can order one anyway just pr
ovide
your tail number detailed color scheme and engine selection and you order w
ill
be processed as received and assigned its authentication number in the seri
es
with out duplication.
All this for the low introductory price of $19.99 plus shipping and
handling but wait if you order 4 or more the shipping is free. Exclusive of
rush orders or special handling requests or out of the USA shipments. This
a
specially negotiated price for the Pietenpol Community.
I will put a link on my FB page for you to reference back to.
My apologies=2C this was just too good not to share with my friends.
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: shamelwaa uas of the forum |
| From: | Amsafetyc <amsafetyc(at)aol.com> |
This will be number 3
Sent from my iPhone
On Dec 13, 2011, at 7:42 AM, Gene Rambo wrote:
> If Helsper orders one, just have her paint two just alike, N number NX898H
. :)
>
> Gene
>
> From: AMsafetyC(at)aol.com
> Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2011 21:37:27 -0500
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: shamelwaa uas of the forum
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>
> I know that this is both shameless and unorthodox use of our beloved board
, however I have no other way to contact everyone at large at such an import
ant time. However I thought it important enough to run the risk of such an a
ction.
>
> I have been successful in securing special introductory pricing concession
s from the owner of www.AristoKrafts.com to create a special series of Chri
stmas ornaments for the Pietenpol Builders and owners community. For a limit
ed time She will accept pre Christmas orders at the special price to create y
our own personalized ornament depicting your Pietenpol on the ornament with t
he tail number and your particular scheme.
>
> Each ornament is a hand painted artistic rendition of your Pietenpol its t
he perfect gif for the flyer in your family, the Piet in your hangar and an i
nspiration for the builder. The good news is that even if you don't have it c
ompleted but would like your own Ornament you can order one anyway just prov
ide your tail number detailed color scheme and engine selection and you orde
r will be processed as received and assigned its authentication number in th
e series with out duplication.
>
> All this for the low introductory price of $19.99 plus shipping and handli
ng but wait if you order 4 or more the shipping is free. Exclusive of rush o
rders or special handling requests or out of the USA shipments. This a speci
ally negotiated price for the Pietenpol Community.
>
> I will put a link on my FB page for you to reference back to.
>
> My apologies, this was just too good not to share with my friends.
>
>
> John
>
>
> _blank">www.aeroelectric.com
> " target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
> ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> http://forums.matronics.com
> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark Stanley" <mmrally(at)nifty.com> |
| Subject: | Piet People- Hi again from Japan |
Hi Steve,
I=99m basically NE of Tokyo on the Kanto plains.....one of the
few flat areas in Japan!
Great to hear you visited Japan. As you would have noticed, it is a very
diffrent world to what we are used to!
Both Piets havn=99t had much done on them for quite a while but
here are some photos. (shrunk in size to save bandwidth).
The fuz on wheels (with two aeroplane noise makers in the cockpits) is
#1 Piet. It belongs to a Japanese bloke that I work with.
#2 photo=99s are of my project (way behind #1 Piet). The rib shots
show one panels worth but all of the ribs are now complete.
The fin/rudder are hinged with Vi Kapler=99s hinges.
Hope to get on with things again soon!
Mark
>I'm just curious, where in Japan are you located?
>Do you have any pictures of your Piet projects?
>Steve Ruse
>Norman, OK
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Piet builders in northern ill southern wi. |
| From: | "bradandlinda tds.net" <bradandlinda(at)tds.net> |
You could look at mine at Burlington Wi. (BUU). Google up NX29NX for
pictures. Brad Williams 262 534-6054.
On Sun, Dec 11, 2011 at 8:27 PM, schuerrman wrote:
>
> Hey, I have my fuse mostly done and I was wondering if there's anyone that
> has a plane I could look at. I've got a stack of visual questions. Thanks.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=360717#360717
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Piet progress |
| From: | "bradandlinda tds.net" <bradandlinda(at)tds.net> |
The compression sprins are stiffer than the coil springs. You want the
spring tension to match the effectiveness of the aerodynamic rudder. I
once flew a clipped wing Cub that the owner had put on stiffer t/w
springs. On t/o with the t/w on the ground the rudder input was super
sensitive, and when the tail came up I had to add more rudder to keep it
going straight. Even worse, on landing with correct rudder input, when the
t/w touched down it immediately veered sharply off. It became real squirly
on roll out. With the spring tension matched to the aerodynamic rudder as
the tail comes up on t/o no change in rudder input should be needed. Brad
Williams
On Mon, Dec 12, 2011 at 5:27 PM, John Kuhfahl wrote:
>
> I'm the one restoring/improving a 1970's Piet. I am a self-admitted
> lurker--You guys and this list are the best...In the archives you taught me
> how to hook up my tail wheel. (it was not made steerable originally). I
> am definitely going with compression springs in my cable control. They run
> nicely through the large belly inspection plate I installed.
> Will try to get this guy back together by this spring to formation fly
> with Oscar Zungia before he brings his baby back to Oregon.
> --
> John Kuhfahl, Lt Col USAF (Ret),
> President, KUHLCOUPER LLC
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Piet progress |
| From: | John Kuhfahl <kuhlcouper(at)gmail.com> |
Brad and all,
Hmm--well I thought I had it figured out. Good point--I hear you.I am
hoping I can adjust out differences between the wheel and the rudder. I put
in some slack on the wheel so the rudder moves before the wheel does. Ill
do some serious taxiing to see how it works. I can always go back to
tension spring. How "bout both? John
On Tue, Dec 13, 2011 at 10:59 AM, bradandlinda tds.net wrote:
> The compression sprins are stiffer than the coil springs. You want the
> spring tension to match the effectiveness of the aerodynamic rudder. I
> once flew a clipped wing Cub that the owner had put on stiffer t/w
> springs. On t/o with the t/w on the ground the rudder input was super
> sensitive, and when the tail came up I had to add more rudder to keep it
> going straight. Even worse, on landing with correct rudder input, when the
> t/w touched down it immediately veered sharply off. It became real squirly
> on roll out. With the spring tension matched to the aerodynamic rudder as
> the tail comes up on t/o no change in rudder input should be needed. Brad
> Williams
>
> On Mon, Dec 12, 2011 at 5:27 PM, John Kuhfahl wrote:
>
>>
>> I'm the one restoring/improving a 1970's Piet. I am a self-admitted
>> lurker--You guys and this list are the best...In the archives you taught me
>> how to hook up my tail wheel. (it was not made steerable originally). I
>> am definitely going with compression springs in my cable control. They run
>> nicely through the large belly inspection plate I installed.
>> Will try to get this guy back together by this spring to formation fly
>> with Oscar Zungia before he brings his baby back to Oregon.
>> --
>> John Kuhfahl, Lt Col USAF (Ret),
>> President, KUHLCOUPER LLC
>>
>> *
>>
>> _blank">www.aeroelectric.com
>> .com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
>> ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>> tp://forums.matronics.com
>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> *
>>
>>
> *
>
> *
>
>
--
John Kuhfahl, Lt Col USAF (Ret),
President, KUHLCOUPER LLC
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Piet progress |
| From: | Steve Emo <steve.emo58(at)gmail.com> |
Compression or tension spring is not the question the question is spring rat
e or pounds per inch.
You want the rudder to move easier than the tail wheel.
You want the first few degrees of rudder to actually be somewhat free and no
t hard coupled or you will be dancing.
Sent from my iPhone
On Dec 13, 2011, at 1:27 PM, John Kuhfahl wrote:
> Brad and all,
> Hmm--well I thought I had it figured out. Good point--I hear you.I am hopi
ng I can adjust out differences between the wheel and the rudder. I put in s
ome slack on the wheel so the rudder moves before the wheel does. Ill do so
me serious taxiing to see how it works. I can always go back to tension spr
ing. How "bout both? John
>
> On Tue, Dec 13, 2011 at 10:59 AM, bradandlinda tds.net wrote:
> The compression sprins are stiffer than the coil springs. You want the sp
ring tension to match the effectiveness of the aerodynamic rudder. I once f
lew a clipped wing Cub that the owner had put on stiffer t/w springs. On t/
o with the t/w on the ground the rudder input was super sensitive, and when t
he tail came up I had to add more rudder to keep it going straight. Even wo
rse, on landing with correct rudder input, when the t/w touched down it imme
diately veered sharply off. It became real squirly on roll out. With the s
pring tension matched to the aerodynamic rudder as the tail comes up on t/o
no change in rudder input should be needed. Brad Williams
>
> On Mon, Dec 12, 2011 at 5:27 PM, John Kuhfahl wrote
:
>
> I'm the one restoring/improving a 1970's Piet. I am a self-admitted lurker
--You guys and this list are the best...In the archives you taught me how to
hook up my tail wheel. (it was not made steerable originally). I am defin
itely going with compression springs in my cable control. They run nicely th
rough the large belly inspection plate I installed.
> Will try to get this guy back together by this spring to formation fly wit
h Oscar Zungia before he brings his baby back to Oregon.
> --
> John Kuhfahl, Lt Col USAF (Ret),
> President, KUHLCOUPER LLC
>
>
> _blank">www.aeroelectric.com
> .com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
> ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> tp://forums.matronics.com
> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>
>
> _blank">www.aeroelectric.com
> .com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
> ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> tp://forums.matronics.com
> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>
>
> --
> John Kuhfahl, Lt Col USAF (Ret),
> President, KUHLCOUPER LLC
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott Knowlton " <flyingscott_k(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Piet progress |
Due to the effect of gyroscopic precession of the prop you will always require
a further input of rudder pressure in a tailwheel aircraft when transitioning
from three point to two point in the take off roll. This is regardless of tailwheel
rigging.
Scott Knowlton.
-----Original Message-----
From: "bradandlinda tds.net" <bradandlinda(at)tds.net>
Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2011 16:59:51
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet progress
The compression sprins are stiffer than the coil springs. You want the spring tension
to match the effectiveness of the aerodynamic rudder. I once flew a clipped
wing Cub that the owner had put on stiffer t/w springs. On t/o with the t/w
on the ground the rudder input was super sensitive, and when the tail came
up I had to add more rudder to keep it going straight. Even worse, on landing
with correct rudder input, when the t/w touched down it immediatelyveered sharply
off. It became real squirly on roll out. With the spring tension matched to
the aerodynamic rudder as the tail comes up on t/o no change in rudder input
should be needed. Brad Williams
On Mon, Dec 12, 2011 at 5:27 PM, John Kuhfahl > wrote:
I'm the one restoring/improving a 1970's Piet. I am a self-admitted lurker--You
guys and this list are the best...In the archives you taught me how to hook up
my tail wheel. (it was not made steerable originally). I am definitely going
with compression springs in my cable control. They run nicely through the large
belly inspection plate I installed.
Will try to get this guy back together by this spring to formation fly with Oscar
Zungia before he brings his baby back to Oregon.
--
John Kuhfahl, Lt Col USAF (Ret),
President, KUHLCOUPER LLC
_blank">www.aeroelectric.com .com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List tp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | A few pics of today's cold flight |
Well today was the last flight of 92GB for the year.- I went out today af
ter preheating the engine all night, 41 degrees, and overcast/light scatter
ed rain (really nice day for an open cockpit I know).- Went out the 1st t
ime for 10-15 min then it started raining lightly so I went back to the bar
n.- I waited about 30 min after running inside to check the r.a.dar, and
went back out to go mud running in the piet.- I went out the 2nd time for
about 35-40 min and was ok untill my feet and knees got cold (thats right
knee, and left knee, not wee knee).- Now I have to get a bucket of water,
soap and clean the evidence off the tail and lift struts.- The picture o
f the Piet has my Jungster1 next to it, It ain't very big is it?- God wil
ling and the hangar don't burn down, I plan on flying it to brodhead in the
next couple years.
-
Shad
-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "C N Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> |
| Subject: | Re: A few pics of today's cold flight |
A friend of mine once built a small Jungster in his carport. I never
saw it after it was finished. It, too, was VERY small.
----- Original Message -----
From: shad bell
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2011 6:54 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: A few pics of today's cold flight
Well today was the last flight of 92GB for the year. I went out
today after preheating the engine all night, 41 degrees, and
overcast/light scattered rain (really nice day for an open cockpit I
know). Went out the 1st time for 10-15 min then it started raining
lightly so I went back to the barn. I waited about 30 min after running
inside to check the r.a.dar, and went back out to go mud running in the
piet. I went out the 2nd time for about 35-40 min and was ok untill my
feet and knees got cold (thats right knee, and left knee, not wee knee).
Now I have to get a bucket of water, soap and clean the evidence off
the tail and lift struts. The picture of the Piet has my Jungster1 next
to it, It ain't very big is it? God willing and the hangar don't burn
down, I plan on flying it to brodhead in the next couple years.
Shad
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Piet builders in northern ill southern wi. |
| From: | "flea" <jimgriggs(at)yahoo.com> |
Westcoastpiet also about a gazillion pictures of every conceivable piece and part
on the pietenpol.
Jim
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=360885#360885
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Piet builders in northern ill southern wi. |
| From: | "bill55" <bliimatainen(at)antennaplus.com> |
I have a Ford powered Sky Scout based at Brodhead. In fact I flew today as it
was 34 degrees but very light wind. I also have an Aircamper in Shullsburg,
WI that I have been building forever. This is Ford powered and it is ready for
cover.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=360889#360889
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Baldeagle" <baldeagle27(at)earthlink.net> |
November 17, 2011 - December 13, 2011
Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-kw