Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-ky
January 08, 2012 - January 17, 2012
Greg Cardinal
Minneapolis
-----Original Message-----
| From: | bender <jfaith(at)solairusaviation.com> |
Sent: Sat, Jan 7, 2012 9:51 am
| Subject: | Re: Brake anti-rotation |
>
thanks gentleman...
did some welding..here it is
i had some 5/16 bungee around so i put 14 feet on each side just to check t
hings
ut...easier to preload it won't move with just me on board..
jeff
-----Original Message-----
| From: | bender <jfaith(at)solairusaviation.com> |
Sent: Sat, Jan 7, 2012 9:51 am
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Brake anti-rotation
>
thanks gentleman...
did some welding..here it is
i had some 5/16 bungee around so i put 14 feet on each side just to check t
hings
ut...easier to preload it won't move with just me on board..
jeff
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Brake anti-rotation |
Mine too! I find I have to replace the bungees every other year (and this
is the year)
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
helspersew(at)aol.com
Sent: Sunday, January 08, 2012 8:07 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Brake anti-rotation
Greg,
Do you have a photo of that leather cuff? My bungees also get chafed by
getting pinched by the spruce "V" pieces during routine stretching during
taxi, landing etc.
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN
-----Original Message-----
From: Greg Cardinal <gcardinal(at)comcast.net>
Sent: Sat, Jan 7, 2012 8:16 pm
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Brake anti-rotation
Jeff,
Will you be installing anything to prevent chafing of the bungee's on the
fasteners?
The bungees on NX18235 were being replaced annually (my least favorite job)
until we installed a leather cuff to protect the bungees.
Greg Cardinal
Minneapolis
-----Original Message-----
From: bender <jfaith(at)solairusaviation.com>
Sent: Sat, Jan 7, 2012 9:51 am
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Brake anti-rotation
thanks gentleman...
did some welding..here it is
i had some 5/16 bungee around so i put 14 feet on each side just to check
things
out...easier to preload it won't move with just me on board..
jeff
" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
p://forums.matronics.com
blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Brake anti-rotation |
| From: | "bender" <jfaith(at)solairusaviation.com> |
actually i plan to rivet the lower brackets together and i will either make a new
lower ash piece or glue more to the bottom in a rounded shape extending slightly
out to keep the bungee off of the metal..
the legs are still rough
jeff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=362726#362726
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/leg_205.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: center secting wing ribs |
| From: | "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca> |
Scott,
At first I didn't quite understand your question, but I think I get it now.
The original plans for the ribs do not have any vertical supports at the spar locations.
The full-size rib drawing as supplied by the Pietenpol family incorporates
a single vertical support behind the front spar, and a single vertical
support on the front side of the rear spar. Some builders opt to install vertical
supports on both sides of each spar (4 supports per rib). I believe this is
the route that you have taken. This option does make it more difficult to slide
the ribs over the spars, but if you already have them built that way, it's
too late to suggest not to use supports on both sides.
In any case, since the original design does not have these supports, it is safe
to assume that they are not structurally necessary. Therefore, you will not be
compromising the structural integrity if you notch or remove those vertical
supports as required to clear any interference with metal fittings, etc.
Hope this helps.
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=362734#362734
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> |
Greg's suggestion of leather to protect the bungees is spot on. Another
thing I've done under the anti-chafe stuff (leather/rubber sheet, whatever)
is to take some tapered faucet washers and hog out the hole so it's a
friction fit around a bolt head, then glue them onto all the bolt heads that
could possibly touch a bungee or wear the anti-chafe wrap. Eliminates the
bolt edges which do the damage.
Almost couldn't touch the Piet for the last six months due to work loads,
but it now looks like I can get back onto my daily schedule. I've got to
push hard to get her done here soon, I love building, but I'm really, really
ready to fly!
Happy new years to all!!
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Cardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Brake anti-rotation |
Attached is a drawing of the anti chafe cuff.
I purchased the leather from a local saddle shop. It was referred to as
"sole leather" because it is relatively thick, about 1/8". It was very
stiff but leather can be formed easily by soaking it in water for a few
minutes.
It is attached to the bottom of the ash block with a couple of small
screws but the bungees keep it held in place.
Round headed rivets per the original plans instead of threaded fasteners
in this location would most likely eliminate the need for the leather
cuff.
Greg Cardinal
Minneapolis
----- Original Message -----
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, January 08, 2012 7:07 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Brake anti-rotation
Greg,
Do you have a photo of that leather cuff? My bungees also get chafed
by getting pinched by the spruce "V" pieces during routine stretching
during taxi, landing etc.
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN
-----Original Message-----
From: Greg Cardinal <gcardinal(at)comcast.net>
To: pietenpol-list
Sent: Sat, Jan 7, 2012 8:16 pm
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Brake anti-rotation
Jeff,
Will you be installing anything to prevent chafing of the bungee's on
the fasteners?
The bungees on NX18235 were being replaced annually (my least favorite
job) until we installed a leather cuff to protect the bungees.
Greg Cardinal
Minneapolis
-----Original Message-----
From: bender <jfaith(at)solairusaviation.com>
To: pietenpol-list
Sent: Sat, Jan 7, 2012 9:51 am
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Brake anti-rotation
thanks gentleman...
did some welding..here it is
i had some 5/16 bungee around so i put 14 feet on each side just to
check things
out...easier to preload it won't move with just me on board..
jeff
" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
p://forums.matronics.com
blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Brake anti-rotation |
I LIKE it! Great idea, Greg. I'll do this when I replace the bungees on
mine this April, during the Condition Inspection.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Greg
Cardinal
Sent: Sunday, January 08, 2012 5:20 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Brake anti-rotation
Attached is a drawing of the anti chafe cuff.
I purchased the leather from a local saddle shop. It was referred to as
"sole leather" because it is relatively thick, about 1/8". It was very stiff
but leather can be formed easily by soaking it in water for a few minutes.
It is attached to the bottom of the ash block with a couple of small screws
but the bungees keep it held in place.
Round headed rivets per the original plans instead of threaded fasteners in
this location would most likely eliminate the need for the leather cuff.
Greg Cardinal
Minneapolis
----- Original Message -----
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
Sent: Sunday, January 08, 2012 7:07 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Brake anti-rotation
Greg,
Do you have a photo of that leather cuff? My bungees also get chafed by
getting pinched by the spruce "V" pieces during routine stretching during
taxi, landing etc.
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN
-----Original Message-----
From: Greg Cardinal <gcardinal(at)comcast.net>
Sent: Sat, Jan 7, 2012 8:16 pm
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Brake anti-rotation
Jeff,
Will you be installing anything to prevent chafing of the bungee's on the
fasteners?
The bungees on NX18235 were being replaced annually (my least favorite job)
until we installed a leather cuff to protect the bungees.
Greg Cardinal
Minneapolis
-----Original Message-----
From: bender <jfaith(at)solairusaviation.com>
Sent: Sat, Jan 7, 2012 9:51 am
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Brake anti-rotation
thanks gentleman...
did some welding..here it is
i had some 5/16 bungee around so i put 14 feet on each side just to check
things
out...easier to preload it won't move with just me on board..
jeff
" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
p://forums.matronics.com
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href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "FandS_Piet" <fkim79(at)gmail.com> |
My father and I have spruce on the way. I have a friend who has a cnc shop. He
is able to route out the the whole wing rib on a piece of plywood to where I
can basically just take all the pieces and inlay them in the routed plywood to
build the rib. Does anybody see why this wouldn't work? He can also cut all
the rib pieces and all the gussets. Im kind of torn weather or not to have him
cut all the rib pieces. By having him mass produce all the rib pieces and gussets
in say, 1 day. How much time would I be saving by having him make the pieces
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=362777#362777
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rib Jig idea? |
| From: | helspersew(at)aol.com |
Disclaimer: If this is a prank from Mikey C. please disregard).
Sir (don't know your name, please advise),
Humbly asking: Are you sure you have chosen the right airplane to build?
My advice to you is: No, do not have this individual cut all your rib piece
s or rout-out your rib jig. I have three reasons for this.
#1) It will be very difficult to keep the excess glue away from the routed
-out plywood. If you were to use a traditional flat working surface, one ca
n avoid this by laying wax paper or polyethylene sheet under the gluing sur
face.
#2) You can almost bet that the pre-cut rib pieces will be wrong, and you
will end up making them over again the old fashioned way anyway. This is cu
stom work. Trying to make it into a mass-production operation at this point
will almost surely be very frustrating and disappointing.
#3) Why would you want to give up the experience of doing all these things
yourself? Respectfully, if you are that hell-bent on speeding-up the proce
ss that much, you might want to slow yourself down at least to the point th
at you could ask your self whether or not you made the right choice on choo
sing the 80-year-old plans-built design in the first place. Sorry to be so
blunt, but I see a disaster looming here. If time is of the essence, then m
aybe you might consider some of the other kits available on the market thes
e days, such as Van's RV's or other similar kits? "Insert part A into part
B" type of stuff.
Building a Pietenpol is a journey, not a sprint. If one is worried about wh
en the first flight will take place, then, respectfully, maybe that person
should consider a different airplane.
Not trying to discourage, but attempting to be realistic, maybe saving a lo
t of heart ache and expense.
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN.
-----Original Message-----
From: FandS_Piet <fkim79(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Sun, Jan 8, 2012 4:39 pm
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Rib Jig idea?
My father and I have spruce on the way. I have a friend who has a cnc shop
. He
s able to route out the the whole wing rib on a piece of plywood to where I
can
asically just take all the pieces and inlay them in the routed plywood to b
uild
he rib. Does anybody see why this wouldn't work? He can also cut all the ri
b
ieces and all the gussets. Im kind of torn weather or not to have him cut a
ll
he rib pieces. By having him mass produce all the rib pieces and gussets in
ay, 1 day. How much time would I be saving by having him make the pieces
ead this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=362777#362777
-= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum -
-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
-= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
-= Photoshare, and much much more:
-
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
-
-========================
-= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
-= Same great content also available via the Web Forums!
-
-= --> http://forums.matronics.com
-
-========================
-= - List Contribution Web Site -
-= Thank you for your generous support!
-= -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
-========================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | airlion <airlion(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rib Jig idea? |
Right on Dan. Shortcuts just will not work on a well designed airplane. Gardiner
________________________________
From: "helspersew(at)aol.com" <helspersew(at)aol.com>
Sent: Sun, January 8, 2012 7:19:14 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Rib Jig idea?
Disclaimer: If this is a prank from Mikey C. please disregard).
Sir (don't know your name, please advise),
Humbly asking: Are you sure you have chosen the right airplane to build?
My advice to you is: No, do not have this individual cut all your rib pieces or
rout-out your rib jig. I have three reasons for this.
#1) It will be very difficult to keep the excess glue away from the routed-out
plywood. If you were to use a traditional flat working surface, one can avoid
this by laying wax paper or polyethylene sheet under the gluing surface.
#2) You can almost bet that the pre-cut rib pieces will be wrong, and you will
end up making them over again the old fashioned way anyway. This is custom work.
Trying to make it into a mass-production operation at this point will almost
surely be very frustrating and disappointing.
#3) Why would you want to give up the experience of doing all these
things yourself? Respectfully, if you are that hell-bent on speeding-up the
process that much, you might want to slow yourself down at least to the point
that you could ask your self whether or not you made the right choice on
choosing the 80-year-old plans-built design in the first place. Sorry to be so
blunt, but I see a disaster looming here. If time is of the essence, then maybe
you might consider some of the other kits available on the market these days,
such as Van's RV's or other similar kits? "Insert part A into part B" type of
stuff.
Building a Pietenpol is a journey, not a sprint. If one is worried about when
the first flight will take place, then, respectfully, maybe that person should
consider a different airplane.
Not trying to discourage, but attempting to be realistic, maybe saving a lot of
heart ache and expense.
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN.
-----Original Message-----
From: FandS_Piet <fkim79(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Sun, Jan 8, 2012 4:39 pm
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Rib Jig idea?
My father and I have spruce on the way. I have a friend who has a cnc shop. He
is able to route out the the whole wing rib on a piece of plywood to where I can
basically just take all the pieces and inlay them in the routed plywood to build
the rib. Does anybody see why this wouldn't work? He can also cut all the rib
pieces and all the gussets. Im kind of torn weather or not to have him cut all
the rib pieces. By having him mass produce all the rib pieces and gussets in
say, 1 day. How much time would I be saving by having him make the pieces
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=362777#362777
" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
p://forums.matronics.com
blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rib Jig idea? |
| From: | "FandS_Piet" <fkim79(at)gmail.com> |
I respect your answers and that is why I asked the question. I figured this is
the response I would get. One thing I don't I dont understand though is while
this is a time saving proposition, how is this a shortcut that is looked at
so far looked at as disgraceful. Dont get me wrong I am asking the question because
I want the opinions of the those with the experience but I dont understand
how using a cnc machine to cut pieces allowing precision that cant be obtained
any other way is a disasterous shorcut. Im sure the rest of the response
will talk me down of the ledge.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=362788#362788
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Schreiber <lmforge(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rib Jig idea? |
On 1/8/2012 6:19 PM, helspersew(at)aol.com wrote:
> Disclaimer: If this is a prank from Mikey C. please disregard).
> Sir (don't know your name, please advise),
> Humbly asking: Are you sure you have chosen the right airplane to build?
> My advice to you is: No, do not have this individual cut all your rib
> pieces or rout-out your rib jig. I have *three *reasons for this.
> *#1)* It will be very difficult to keep the excess glue away from the
> routed-out plywood. If you were to use a traditional flat working
> surface, one can avoid this by laying wax paper or polyethylene sheet
> under the gluing surface.
> *#2)* You can almost bet that the pre-cut rib pieces will be wrong,
> and you will end up making them over again the old fashioned way
> anyway. This is custom work. Trying to make it into a mass-production
> operation at this point will almost surely be very frustrating and
> disappointing.
> *#3)* Why would you want to give up the experience of doing all these
> things yourself? Respectfully, if you are that hell-bent on
> speeding-up the process that much, you might want to slow yourself
> down at least to the point that you could ask your self whether or not
> you made the right choice on choosing the 80-year-old plans-built
> design in the first place. Sorry to be so blunt, but I see a disaster
> looming here. If time is of the essence, then maybe you might consider
> some of the other kits available on the market these days, such as
> Van's RV's or other similar kits? "Insert part A into part B" type of
> stuff.
> Building a Pietenpol is a journey, not a sprint. If one is worried
> about when the first flight will take place, then, respectfully, maybe
> that person should consider a different airplane.
> Not trying to discourage, but attempting to be realistic, maybe saving
> a lot of heart ache and expense.
> Dan Helsper
> Puryear, TN.
>
>
Dan,
My sentiments exactly. If the idea is to build a plane as fast as
possible, a Pietenpol may not be the wisest choice. When one builds a
plans built plane of this nature, the journey of the build is the
important thing. When I started my journey 8 years ago, I started out
building the ribs. It was relative straight forward, but repetitive. I
had experience building a number of long term projects and I knew if I
could get through the ribs I had it licked. Building the ribs was a Zen
experience. After a hard day at work it was soothing to come home and
put a rib together. I usually did a rib a day. I pulled a rib out of the
fixture and then glued up a new one (about a 45 min process). While the
new rib was curing I went out on the back porch and proceeded to pull
the staples on yesterdays rib. All in all a very satisfying experience.
At the completion of the last rib I had as much enthusiasm as when I
started.
As I said I have been working on my Piet for about 8 years. Most of that
time I was working 2 jobs, so spare time was limited, but I still
managed to do something on it every day, I never worried how long it was
going to take. I knew that I would finish it and that was the only
important thing. Now as I get close to covering and finishing the
project I am starting to feel remorse. The journey has been so much fun,
I don't want it to stop.
Rick Schreiber
Valparaiso, In
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rib Jig idea? |
| From: | "FandS_Piet" <fkim79(at)gmail.com> |
Dan,
I recognize your name in the Piet community and am thankful of your lengthy response
and opinion. Idon'tt want to give the wrong impression here that I am
going to try and rush through the build and sacrifice quality. At the same time
I will not lie and say that I would rather our project take us 3-4 years as
opposed to 5-6 years. To answer your question I believe we have definitelyy chose
the right airplane and cant wait to get started building
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=362789#362789
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rib Jig idea? |
| From: | "dgaldrich" <dgaldrich(at)embarqmail.com> |
Hi
I'm going to be a little less blunt than Dan but he does make some good points.
Oddly enough, the answers to your questions justify his point of view.
First, rib jigs are easy enough to make and the process is sorta fun so you really
don't save much time by having one CNCed. The plywood jig, as Dan said would
be a glue bucket. It would make an interesting wall plaque, though.
Second, you CAN save a little bit of time by doing all the individual rib cap strip
pieces for each place on the mold at one time. I made a "master" set of
the pieces for MY jig and then duplicated 30 some of them using a miter saw and
stop blocks. Took maybe 30 minutes to make a pile of each of the pieces. Maybe
2 days total to generate 12 piles of little pieces. You'd probably spend
at least that amount of time doing all the programming for the CNC machine.
Net saving -- zero. Net pride -- +1. That way, I could go out to the workshop
each night, take a rib out of the jig, "reload" the jig with new pieces, put
gussets on the one fresh out of the jig to complete it and be back before Jeopardy
was over. You can do two ribs per day at the most anyway so it's not what
you call mass production.
Third, and this really gets to the core of Dan's issue, you'll find out pretty
quickly if you like the idea of doing a plans built airplane. If you find you
actually like doing ribs, most of the other tasks involved in building a Pietenpol
are a similar learning experience. The tasks become a little more complex
and the materials, specifically steel and fabric, present their own challenges
but the skills are not difficult to learn and there are LOTS of resources
available.
Worst case is you find it isn't your cup of tea and it's time to look for a nice
old Cherokee. (Mine, incidentally, is for sale) The cost for wood for the
ribs is a pretty small price to pay to find out you don't have the interest or
willingness to invest the time. You can always give the ribs to someone on this
list and keep one to hang on the wall.
Best case is you get addicted to the idea of creating something with your own hands
and come to Brodhead in a couple of years.
You'll never know unless you try.
Dave Aldrich
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=362792#362792
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave Millikan <n11dmx(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rib Jig idea? |
Ribs, BTDT... Almost complete on my 2nd wing.
Here is my method..
Layout the rib outline on a flat wood platform.
make a bunch of small blocks and screw them up against the outside of the r
ib outline.
on the inside more blocks allowing for the 1/4- capstrip, except leave ma
ybe 1/16 or 1/8 clearance
Then use disassemble spring clothespins for wedges to force the capstrip ag
ainst the outside blocks.
I tried to cut capstrips myself,gave up, ordered them from ACS.
Make 2 x 4 blocks for the front curve, soak strips o/nite in water
clamp- them in the blocks 24 hrs, no need to steam.
Dave- NX1QZ- I also deleted the under camber.
--- On Mon, 1/9/12, airlion wrote:
From: airlion <airlion(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Rib Jig idea?
Date: Monday, January 9, 2012, 1:05 AM
Right on Dan. Shortcuts just will not work on a well designed airplane. Gar
diner
From: "helspersew(at)aol.com" <helspersew(at)aol.com>
Sent: Sun, January 8, 2012 7:19:14 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Rib Jig idea?
Disclaimer: If this is a prank from Mikey C. please disregard).
-
-
Sir (don't know your name, please advise),
-
Humbly asking: Are you sure you have chosen the right airplane to build?
-
My advice to you is: No, do not have this individual cut all your rib piece
s or rout-out your rib jig.-I have-three reasons for this.
-
#1)--It will be very difficult to keep the excess glue away from the ro
uted-out plywood. If you were to use a traditional flat working surface, on
e can avoid this by laying wax paper or polyethylene sheet under the gluing
surface.
-
#2)--You can almost bet that the pre-cut rib pieces-will be wrong, an
d you will end up making them over again the old fashioned way anyway. This
is custom work. Trying to make it into a mass-production operation at this
point will almost surely be very frustrating and disappointing.
-
#3)--Why would you want to give up the experience of doing all-these
things-yourself? Respectfully, if you are that hell-bent on speeding-up t
he process that much, you might want to slow yourself down at least to the
point that you could ask your self whether or not you made the right choice
on choosing the 80-year-old plans-built design in the first place. Sorry t
o be so blunt,-but I see a disaster looming here. If time is of the essen
ce, then maybe you might consider some of the other kits available on the m
arket these days, such as Van's RV's or other similar kits?-"Insert part
A into part B" type of stuff.
-
Building a Pietenpol is a journey, not a sprint. If one is worried about wh
en the first flight will take place, then, respectfully, maybe that person
should consider a different-airplane.
-
Not trying to discourage, but attempting to be realistic, maybe saving a lo
t of heart ache and expense.
-
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN.
-
-----Original Message-----
From: FandS_Piet <fkim79(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Sun, Jan 8, 2012 4:39 pm
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Rib Jig idea?
My father and I have spruce on the way. I have a friend who has a cnc shop
. He
is able to route out the the whole wing rib on a piece of plywood to where
I can
basically just take all the pieces and inlay them in the routed plywood to
build
the rib. Does anybody see why this wouldn't work? He can also cut all the r
ib
pieces and all the gussets. Im kind of torn weather or not to have him cut
all
the rib pieces. By having him mass produce all the rib pieces and gussets i
n
say, 1 day. How much time would I be
saving by having him make the pieces
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=362777#362777
" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
p://forums.matronics.com
blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Schreiber <lmforge(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rib Jig idea? |
On 1/8/2012 7:32 PM, FandS_Piet wrote:
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "FandS_Piet"
>
> I respect your answers and that is why I asked the question. I figured this
is the response I would get. One thing I don't I dont understand though is while
this is a time saving proposition, how is this a shortcut that is looked at
so far looked at as disgraceful. Dont get me wrong I am asking the question
because I want the opinions of the those with the experience but I dont understand
how using a cnc machine to cut pieces allowing precision that cant be obtained
any other way is a disasterous shorcut. Im sure the rest of the response
will talk me down of the ledge.
>
>
As Dan said previously, using a CNC cut sheet of plywood for the rib jig
has issues. The best method is to follow the standard procedure for
building the jig. Buy and follow the Tony Bengelis/EAA books. Building
an aircraft, even one as simple as a Pietenpol, is a complex process. If
you try and reinvent the wheel at this early stage, you will most likely
never finish.
Rick Schreiber
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
I have to agree with Dan. For some reason, nearly everybody who starts
building a Pietenpol comes in with the idea that there is some way he/she
can "improve" the design or speed up the build process. Many decide that
what this airplane needs is for the plans to be done in CAD, either 2-D or
3-D. Some try to automate the rib building process. Others decide that it
is easier to make the fuselage oversize than to try and re-size themselves.
As someone once said "You can modify the Pietenpol plans and build a good
airplane, or you can build it exactly to the plans and build a great one."
I made a number of changes to the plans on mine, and most of them I regret.
The Pietenpols I have flown that were built closest to the plans are those
that fly the very best.
It is GOOD to think about such modifications (to the design or the building
process), but it is even better to not spend much time on them. For
example, the ribs take 30 days to build - 1 rib per day. If you were to cut
all the parts out ahead of time you can probably cut that down to 29 days.
Unless you have multiple jigs, it still takes about a day for the glue to
cure so you can pop the rib out of the jig. When I built mine, I would glue
up a rib in the jig, and then cut out the parts for tomorrow's rib while it
was curing. The next day, I would pop the rig out, glue the gussets on the
back side, put all the freshly cut pieces for the next rib in the jig and
glue it up. Total working time per rib, about 3 hours. If all the parts
were precut, it would save 2 hours of cutting parts each night while the
previous rib was curing. Total time saved would be zero because the
limiting factor is still jig time for curing the glue (note - I used
Resorcinol, not T-88, so curing times may vary a bit).
If you want your friend to cut a rib jig out of some material that is inert
to epoxy, such as Delrin or ultra high molecular weight polyethylene, you
could use such a jig to advantage, as long as your shop is held at a
constant temperature. The nice thing about a wooden rib built in a wooden
jig is that the linear coefficient of thermal expansion as well as the
shrinkage or expansion with changes in humidity is the same between the wood
of the rib and the jig. Not so for a plastic jig.
Don't get discouraged by all this talk. Just get the plans, build your rib
jig, and start making sawdust. BTW, if you haven't got them yet, buy the
four Tony Bingelis books (The Sportplane Builder, Sportplane Construction
Techniques, Firewall Forward and Tony Bingelis on Engines), and READ them
(they don't do you any good sitting unread on your bookshelf). You can get
all four from the EAA for about $80, and just about any question you have
about how to build an airplane can be found in the pages of those books.
What is your name and where are you building your Pietenpol? If you notice,
many of us that have flying Pietenpols list not only our name and location,
but our N-Number so you can identify us by our airplanes at Brodhead. You
ARE planning to visit Brodhead, aren't you? It is the best place to get any
Pietenpol related question answered - usually several different ways.
Welcome aboard and keep the List appraised of your progress.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
helspersew(at)aol.com
Sent: Sunday, January 08, 2012 7:19 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Rib Jig idea?
Disclaimer: If this is a prank from Mikey C. please disregard).
Sir (don't know your name, please advise),
Humbly asking: Are you sure you have chosen the right airplane to build?
My advice to you is: No, do not have this individual cut all your rib pieces
or rout-out your rib jig. I have three reasons for this.
#1) It will be very difficult to keep the excess glue away from the
routed-out plywood. If you were to use a traditional flat working surface,
one can avoid this by laying wax paper or polyethylene sheet under the
gluing surface.
#2) You can almost bet that the pre-cut rib pieces will be wrong, and you
will end up making them over again the old fashioned way anyway. This is
custom work. Trying to make it into a mass-production operation at this
point will almost surely be very frustrating and disappointing.
#3) Why would you want to give up the experience of doing all these things
yourself? Respectfully, if you are that hell-bent on speeding-up the process
that much, you might want to slow yourself down at least to the point that
you could ask your self whether or not you made the right choice on choosing
the 80-year-old plans-built design in the first place. Sorry to be so blunt,
but I see a disaster looming here. If time is of the essence, then maybe you
might consider some of the other kits available on the market these days,
such as Van's RV's or other similar kits? "Insert part A into part B" type
of stuff.
Building a Pietenpol is a journey, not a sprint. If one is worried about
when the first flight will take place, then, respectfully, maybe that person
should consider a different airplane.
Not trying to discourage, but attempting to be realistic, maybe saving a lot
of heart ache and expense.
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN.
-----Original Message-----
From: FandS_Piet <fkim79(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Sun, Jan 8, 2012 4:39 pm
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Rib Jig idea?
My father and I have spruce on the way. I have a friend who has a cnc shop.
He
is able to route out the the whole wing rib on a piece of plywood to where I
can
basically just take all the pieces and inlay them in the routed plywood to
build
the rib. Does anybody see why this wouldn't work? He can also cut all the
rib
pieces and all the gussets. Im kind of torn weather or not to have him cut
all
the rib pieces. By having him mass produce all the rib pieces and gussets in
say, 1 day. How much time would I be saving by having him make the pieces
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=362777#362777
" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
p://forums.matronics.com
blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rib Jig idea? |
F and S, Welcome.-
-
As you are-new to this arena, no one here knows what skills you have, wha
t tools you own or have access too, what your budget is, time schedule, etc
.-Of course, we have no clue as to what you personally will find fun to b
uild, or hate.--
-
You asked about a CNC rib jig. I say, if you can get it to work, do it.-A
s others eluded to, with out some homework and some thought, it can be a ca
n of worms. But if you can make it duplicate ribs as drawn, great!
-
Since you are asking about having a friend possibly make up the rib jig and
cap strips, I conclude the wood that is on it's way is not cut to size. Yo
u may already know; you can buy cap strip cut to final dimensions, you just
need to cut the length. If cutting up bulk wood is not your thing, then yo
ur friend may be a big help...regardless if he uses CNC or a hand saw.-
-
I recommend-building your plane however it suits you and your situation b
est. If friends-are available and have the skills, tools and means to hel
p out, I would consider that a blessing.
-
Michael Perez
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Clif Dawson" <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Rib Jig idea? |
My turn! :-) If you want to use that ply contraption,
great, but you will need to drill at least 2" holes
under every glue joint so the glue falls through
without touching anything. Also these holes will be
necessary for popping the rib out of the jig.
Now, having said that, personaly I would still use
the flat board covered in saran wrap with blocks
and cams screwed to it. Why? Well, the excess glue
that does drip down hits the saran and flattens out.
When you turn the rib over to gusset the other side
you now have even more gluing surface than the first
side. Right? So what happens to that glue in your
fancy jig with holes in it? Why, it drips this big blob
you have to cut off before glueing down that backside gusset! Trust me,
you can clean away excess glue
all you want but the next day there will still be a blob!
Clif
http://www.clifdawson.ca/Homepage4-10-06/Pietenpol.html
Pilots are a rare kind of human. They leave the ordinary surface of the
world, to purify their soul in the sky, and they come down to earth,
only after receiving the communion of the infinite."
Jos=C3=A9 Maria Velasco Ibarra, President of Ecuador
You asked about a CNC rib jig. I say, if you can get it to work,
do it. As others eluded to, with out some homework and some thought, it
can be a can of worms. But if you can make it duplicate ribs as drawn,
great!
Michael Perez
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KM Heide CPO/FAAOP <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rib Jig idea? |
Loft out the rib on a counter top scrap form Menards and elimiate the need
for saran wrap.
-KMHeide
--- On Sun, 1/8/12, Clif Dawson wrote:
From: Clif Dawson <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Rib Jig idea?
Date: Sunday, January 8, 2012, 10:16 PM
My turn! :-)- If you want to use that ply contraption,
great, but you- will need to drill at least 2" holes
under every glue joint so- the glue falls through
without touching anything. Also these holes will be
necessary for popping the rib out of the jig.
-
Now, having said that, personaly I would still use
the flat board covered in saran wrap with blocks
and cams screwed to it. Why? Well, the excess-glue
that does drip down hits the saran and flattens out.
When you turn the rib over to gusset the other side
you now have even more gluing surface than the first
side. Right? So what happens to that glue in your
fancy jig with holes in- it? Why, it drips this big blob
you have to cut off before glueing down that backside gusset! Trust me, you
can clean away excess glue
all you want but the next day there will still be a blob!
-
Clif
http://www.clifdawson.ca/Homepage4-10-06/Pietenpol.html
-
Pilots are a rare kind of human. They leave the ordinary surface of the wor
ld, to purify their soul in the sky, and they come down to earth, only afte
r receiving the communion of the infinite."
Jos=C3=A9 Maria Velasco Ibarra, President of Ecuador
-
You asked about a CNC rib jig. I say, if you can get it to work, do it.-A
s others eluded to, with out some homework and some thought, it can be a ca
n of worms. But if you can make it duplicate ribs as drawn, great!
Michael Perez
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
-
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rib Jig idea? |
| From: | Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com> |
A CNC rib jig is not going to cut 2 years off your build time. Simplicate,
don't complicate. You will make far quicker progress by committing to
working on the project every day (using tried and true methods) than by
trying to invent new ways to build the wheel....
On Sun, Jan 8, 2012 at 7:42 PM, FandS_Piet wrote:
>
> Dan,
> I recognize your name in the Piet community and am thankful of your
> lengthy response and opinion. Idon'tt want to give the wrong impression
> here that I am going to try and rush through the build and sacrifice
> quality. At the same time I will not lie and say that I would rather our
> project take us 3-4 years as opposed to 5-6 years. To answer your question
> I believe we have definitelyy chose the right airplane and cant wait to get
> started building
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=362789#362789
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: New Builder to the Piet Family |
| From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
Hard to improve on what Jack said, so I'll just say... welcome aboard!
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=362806#362806
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matthijs de Groot <getijsem(at)zonnet.nl> |
| Subject: | cad drawings for meatal fittings? |
Hi im looking for cad drawings for the metal fittings (all of them).
So i can have some of them cut . any boddy?
Matthijs
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | cad drawings for meatal fittings? |
Matthijs,
In general pre-cut metal fittings are not a great idea, since most of the
fittings need to be fit to your individual structure, and nearly every
Pietenpol is different to some degree. Even when building absolutely to the
plans, you still need to make the fittings to fit your aprticular airplane.
There are some fittings that can be done ahead, such as the drag wire and
anti-drag wire fittings within the wing, and other mostly flat parts, but
they are easily made by tracing the outline onto a piece of chome-moly steel
and cutting them out with a bandsaw. As I always tell any new builder, buy
the Tony Bingelis books if you want to learn how to make the fittings.
When cutting the parts out, be sure to allow a little extra material so you
can grind them down to a smooth final shape, with generous fillet radii in
all the internal corners to minimize stress concentrations.
As Mike Cuy points out in his videeo, it's a good idea to lengthen any
fitting that will hold a cable near the fabric to allow more room to insert
the clevis pin into the shackle. BHP didn't allow enough room on most of
his fittings.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Matthijs de
Groot
Sent: Monday, January 09, 2012 6:50 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: cad drawings for meatal fittings?
Hi im looking for cad drawings for the metal fittings (all of them).
So i can have some of them cut . any boddy?
Matthijs
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank Metcalfe <fmetcalf(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: cad drawings for meatal fittings? |
I have them ... I'll see if I can find them. We use cad drawing for templet
es to cut our parts. We were buliding 6 Piets so mass production payed off
. We printed them on lable paper and printed them., Just cut them out and s
tick them to your metal and cut them out. the process-worked well. I did
extend some of the fittings for clearance for bolts and fabric.I did find a
few pictures ..-
--- On Mon, 1/9/12, Matthijs de Groot wrote:
From: Matthijs de Groot <getijsem(at)zonnet.nl>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: cad drawings for meatal fittings?
Date: Monday, January 9, 2012, 6:50 AM
>
Hi im looking for cad drawings for the metal fittings (all of them). So i c
an have some of them cut . any boddy?
Matthijs
le, List Admin.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank Metcalfe <fmetcalf(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: cad drawings for meatal fittings? |
Found them ..... here is the aileron horn drawing. take a look and see if y
ou canuse them.
--- On Mon, 1/9/12, Matthijs de Groot wrote:
From: Matthijs de Groot <getijsem(at)zonnet.nl>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: cad drawings for meatal fittings?
Date: Monday, January 9, 2012, 6:50 AM
>
Hi im looking for cad drawings for the metal fittings (all of them). So i c
an have some of them cut . any boddy?
Matthijs
le, List Admin.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Operation Arrow fest Ends |
I am back at work and can say that I did not meet my original goal of havin
g the tail pieces covered, painted and ready to fly. However, I did make gr
eat progress and am 90% to that original goal.- I still need to cover one
side of the horiz. stab. and paint it. I am currently working on the insig
nia/paint on the second side of the rudder/vert. stab.
As a bonus, I did get one aileron covered and am currently painting it. Ail
erons were not in the original plan, but I fit one in anyway.
The covering, taping, stitching process came very easy to me and it was fun
to do. These were things I have never done before so it was nice to pick u
p some new skills.- The pieces I have completed so far meet my expectatio
ns and have the look I was after.-
All in all a GREAT build fest...thanks mostly to my wife, who allowed me al
l the time I wanted to do so.
Michael Perez
=0AKaretaker Aero
=0Awww.karetakeraero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rib Jig idea? |
| From: | "Bryan Reed" <reed44(at)gmail.com> |
Bender,
Speaking from experience, as I once walked past a gentleman that saw a picture
of a rib jig, I can with confidence state. Your jig could not possibly work
as it uses ugly wood for blocks and when I measure (on my screen) the dimensions
are way off.
Further advise is always available from myself on Piet building as I am nearly
15% done with mine.
Se ya,
Bryan
--------
Working Piet N5289B
While I may not always be right, I apologize well.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=362829#362829
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph" <ralphhsd(at)itctel.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rib Jig idea? |
I=99m not sure where my approach leaves me in the Pietenpol
community but here are my thoughts. After buying my plans about 20
years ago, I happened on to Charlie Rubek and a set of his ribs at
Brodhead. Being a fiscally conservative (tight) individual I thought
that investing in a set of ribs would commit me to continuing with the
project. It worked. I=99ve haven=99t finished yet but am
still building with the goal of completion. I do not feel I have missed
out on anything because I didn=99t build my own ribs. I did build
my own nose and tail ribs for the center section using one of
Charlie=99s for a pattern. I also had an I.A. weld up my motor
mount rather than trying to become proficient myself. I had the local
machine shop cut out the centers and install brass bushings in
motorcycle wheels for the landing gear. No matter what =9Cshort
cuts=9D you might take it will still be =9Cyour=9D
airplane and there will be no question of whether or not you meet the
=9C51% rule=9D. Good luck and happy building and
here=99s hope for a speedier completion than myself.
I have just moved my fuselage on gear into a modified garage and
attached the wings and drilled the struts yesterday. Learn how to use
the archives for information. I used it to determine dihedral and
washout just yesterday. Dihedral, none to three inches. Washout, none
to 1.5 inches. Okay, you won=99t always get a single exact answer
but like your rib question you can find out what others have and done
and what worked for them.
Ralph in South Dakota
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Piet on eBay |
| From: | "Baldeagle" <baldeagle27(at)earthlink.net> |
Buyer is Dewey Davenport who has a private strip near Dayton, Ohio.
-
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=362832#362832
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | N-Number, When to Apply? |
Crew, I would like to paint on my N number to the rudder. I have had my N n
umber reserved for a few years now, but have not registered said number.-
Any harm painting tail numbers now, or is it a little premature?- I know
if I fail to renew my reservation, I can loose it, but aside from that, an
y issues doing it soon?
Michael Perez
=0AKaretaker Aero
=0Awww.karetakeraero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: N-Number, When to Apply? |
| From: | "womenfly2" <Love2Fly.KAP(at)gmail.com> |
As long as its still active, go ahead. Its officially an airplane with an N-number!
... I just would not have it Tattooed across your chest!
--------
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=362843#362843
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: N-Number, When to Apply? |
Thanks for the input. I want to finish painting the rudder/vert. stab. and feel
like if I don't apply the N number, they're not finished! But, I don't want to
jump the gun, so to speak, either.
So I should axe the tattoo idea? Bummer...that would have been my first!
Michael Perez
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: N-Number, When to Apply? |
| From: | Dave Nielsen <sentuchows(at)aol.com> |
The Faa says: THIS REGISTRATION NUMBER IS RESERVED IN YOUR NAME. IT IS NOT
ASSIGNED TO AN AIRCRAFT AND MAY NOT BE PAINTED ON AN AIRCRAFT UNTIL AUTHORI
ZATION IS RECEIVED FROM THIS OFFICE
"Bat Cave" Dave
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Sent: Mon, Jan 9, 2012 1:03 pm
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: N-Number, When to Apply?
Thanks for the input. I want to finish painting the rudder/vert. stab. and
feel like if I don't apply the N number, they're not finished! But, I don't
want to jump the gun, so to speak, either.
So I should axe the tattoo idea? Bummer...that would have been my first!
Michael Perez
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
-= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum -
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-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
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-========================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: N-Number, When to Apply? |
Thanks Dave. I vaguely remember seeing that somewhere now...probably on my
reservation papers at home.- I'll wait on the numbers...moving on...
Michael Perez
=0AKaretaker Aero
=0Awww.karetakeraero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matthijs de Groot <getijsem(at)zonnet.nl> |
| Subject: | Re: cad drawings for meatal fittings? |
that would help a lot thanx.
On Jan 9, 2012, at 3:17 PM, Frank Metcalfe wrote:
> I have them ... I'll see if I can find them. We use cad drawing for
> templetes to cut our parts. We were buliding 6 Piets so mass
> production payed off . We printed them on lable paper and printed
> them., Just cut them out and stick them to your metal and cut them
> out. the process worked well. I did extend some of the fittings for
> clearance for bolts and fabric.I did find a few pictures ..
>
> --- On Mon, 1/9/12, Matthijs de Groot wrote:
>
> From: Matthijs de Groot <getijsem(at)zonnet.nl>
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: cad drawings for meatal fittings?
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Monday, January 9, 2012, 6:50 AM
>
> >
>
> Hi im looking for cad drawings for the metal fittings (all of tt; http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> _sp; --> ht= -->
>
>
> <120-2083_IMG.JPG><120-2082_IMG.JPG>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
Nothing wrong with purchasing components rather than building them. Mike
Cuy won a Lindy Award at OSH doing just that. His ribs were made by Charlie
Rubeck as well, and his fuselage was built in North Carolina. It's still
"his" airplane.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ralph
Sent: Monday, January 09, 2012 10:54 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Rib Jig idea?
I'm not sure where my approach leaves me in the Pietenpol community but here
are my thoughts. After buying my plans about 20 years ago, I happened on
to Charlie Rubek and a set of his ribs at Brodhead. Being a fiscally
conservative (tight) individual I thought that investing in a set of ribs
would commit me to continuing with the project. It worked. I've haven't
finished yet but am still building with the goal of completion. I do not
feel I have missed out on anything because I didn't build my own ribs. I
did build my own nose and tail ribs for the center section using one of
Charlie's for a pattern. I also had an I.A. weld up my motor mount rather
than trying to become proficient myself. I had the local machine shop cut
out the centers and install brass bushings in motorcycle wheels for the
landing gear. No matter what "short cuts" you might take it will still be
"your" airplane and there will be no question of whether or not you meet the
"51% rule". Good luck and happy building and here's hope for a speedier
completion than myself.
I have just moved my fuselage on gear into a modified garage and attached
the wings and drilled the struts yesterday. Learn how to use the archives
for information. I used it to determine dihedral and washout just
yesterday. Dihedral, none to three inches. Washout, none to 1.5 inches.
Okay, you won't always get a single exact answer but like your rib question
you can find out what others have and done and what worked for them.
Ralph in South Dakota
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: N-Number, When to Apply? |
But it's not "An Aircraft" until it has an airworthiness certificate. For
all the FAA nows, it might be a planter box for a vegetable garden, that
happens to look like an airplane.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Nielsen
Sent: Monday, January 09, 2012 1:24 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: N-Number, When to Apply?
The Faa says: THIS REGISTRATION NUMBER IS RESERVED IN YOUR NAME. IT IS NOT
ASSIGNED TO AN AIRCRAFT AND MAY NOT BE PAINTED ON AN AIRCRAFT UNTIL
AUTHORIZATION IS RECEIVED FROM THIS OFFICE
"Bat Cave" Dave
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Sent: Mon, Jan 9, 2012 1:03 pm
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: N-Number, When to Apply?
Thanks for the input. I want to finish painting the rudder/vert. stab. and
feel like if I don't apply the N number, they're not finished! But, I don't
want to jump the gun, so to speak, either.
So I should axe the tattoo idea? Bummer...that would have been my first!
Michael Perez
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com <http://www.karetakeraero.com/>
" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
p://forums.matronics.com
blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ben Charvet <bencharvet(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: N-Number, When to Apply? |
I would recommend going ahead and getting your registration early. In
Florida as soon as you get your registration they will want you to pay
your sales tax. That would be the tax on anything you didn't buy in-
state, like your Aircraft Spruce purchases, etc. They don't care what
you buy AFTER you register it, so by registering early, you might avoid
some sales tax.
Ben Charvet
On 1/9/2012 2:01 PM, Michael Perez wrote:
> Thanks Dave. I vaguely remember seeing that somewhere now...probably
> on my reservation papers at home. I'll wait on the numbers...moving on...
>
> Michael Perez
> Karetaker Aero
> www.karetakeraero.com
>
> *
>
>
> *
--
Ben Charvet, PharmD
Staff Pharmacist
Parrish Medical center
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: N-Number, When to Apply? |
That is interesting Ben. The FAA recommends that you submit the registratio
n form , I believe, 90 to 120 days prior to aircraft completion.- No ment
ion on doing it sooner.
Michael Perez
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: N-Number, When to Apply? |
| From: | "Bryan Reed" <reed44(at)gmail.com> |
I have attached the letter I recently received with my N-number reservation. The
way I read it is I have the N-number reserved but I can send in a request (and
$10) to the Civil Aviation Registry describing the aircraft by manufacturer,
model and serial number and have it assigned to the aircraft.
It does not mention "Airworthiness Certification". I am interpreting that to
mean they will assign the N-number to the aircraft. You then, can send in the
"Airworthiness certification" when you finish and and obtain it from your D.A.R.
Please read the attached and let me know what your thoughts are.
Bryan
--------
Working Piet N5289B
While I may not always be right, I apologize well.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=362889#362889
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: N-Number, When to Apply? |
| From: | "Bryan Reed" <reed44(at)gmail.com> |
Try again as the attachment didn't go out.
Bryan
--------
Working Piet N5289B
While I may not always be right, I apologize well.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=362892#362892
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/reserven_nmbr_125.pdf
http://forums.matronics.com//files/reserven_nmbr_121.pdf
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: N-Number, When to Apply? |
Bryan, that is the same general letter I received with my reservation as we
ll.- Registration and airworthy certification are two different animals.
- I have Advisory Circular 20-27F; section 8 covers the steps to register
the plane.
-
I guess my question now is - how early is too early to register a home buil
t that is not finished?- I may take Gene's advice and do it now.
Michael Perez
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
-
-
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: N-Number, When to Apply? |
| From: | "Bryan Reed" <reed44(at)gmail.com> |
Thanks for the info. I think I will go ahead and send in to have it applied to
the plane. Work schedule and God willing, I would like to be in the air by the
end of the year.
Thanks,
Bryan
--------
Working Piet N5289B
While I may not always be right, I apologize well.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=362899#362899
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Wing spar routing jig. |
| From: | "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com> |
I recently did a project for the EAA on their 1919 Standard J-1 biplane restoration.
One wing spar was BADLY dry rotted, so a replacement had to be made. FIRST,
they had to wait for a beautiful piece of doug fir to show up to the mill
before it could be planed and sent to them.
Then, the routed recesses had to be made. I offered to do it as their primary
woodworker was not available.
As a picture is worth 10 thousand words, here it is. A very simple jig that I
will duplicate for the Piet wing spar when I get my spar material.
In this picture, the jig is upside down for a photo op only. It shows both a finished
routed recess and how the spar is indexed in the jig.
The width of the routed recess is "set". However, the length of the recess is
adjustable. If you need one longer than the jig, then you simply rout and then
reset. If you need one shorter, I made adjustable end stops with a gage to
make setup easier.
The jig, end stop and spar all get clamped as a whole directly to the bench top.
It's a very stable setup. Here's the setup for a short recess (at the end
of the spar).
I'll be getting my wood from McCormick in Madison. I don't know if this is generally
considered a difficult process for much of the group. If it is, or is
condsidered worthwhile, I can rout my spars at Brodhead next summer. If not,
I'll probably do it here but wouldn't mind bringing the jig I make to pass along
to the next guy, or we could do a bunch of spars there, whatever works for
the group.
Tools
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=362918#362918
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC AEROSPACE CORP]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | to route or not to route |
One man's option--how I did it and how I would do it again.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kip and Beth Gardner <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: to route or not to route |
Elmer's glue of course - correct? :)
Seriously, Mike has posted this drawing a number of times over the
years, and it strikes me as a very sensible solution from someone who
knows.
Kip Gardner
On Jan 10, 2012, at 9:07 AM, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC AEROSPACE
CORP] wrote:
> One man's option--how I did it and how I would do it again.
>
> Mike C.
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing spar routing jig. |
I think that jig is a great way to duplicate the spar that it will be repla
cing. After waiting for the wood to show up and then have it planed down to
size and shipped, the last thing you, as a volunteer, want to do is mess i
t up.- The jig should prove to produce quick, clean and accurate duplicat
ions of the original.
As for the Pietenpol...you already have the jig, after doing this current s
par, you'll have some basic knowledge how to use it AND, I believe, the pla
ns show routed spars as an option, (for those who stick to the plans) so I
say try it!
Michael Perez
=0AKaretaker Aero
=0Awww.karetakeraero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: to route or not to route |
| From: | "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com> |
The bible (book of 1932, vs. 53) recommends a little fillet. Is it simply not
necessary?
Are the "full sections" (center and spar attach points) made by gluing in filler
blocks?
The drawing shows the spar being quartersawn. Is that preferred or necessary?
If so, do the glued on parts need to be as well? As flatsawn wood expands and
contracts at a different rate than quartersawn wood, wondering if the pieces
were much different if it would stress the glue joint. I do know that this is
the reason dowel joints predictably fail (in addition to cross grain problems,
dowels themselves don't stay round as they expand and contract with moisture
variances).
Tools
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=362929#362929
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph" <ralphhsd(at)itctel.com> |
I am seeking information on jury strut material and attachment to spar
methods. I understand the off center rational. Is there any advantage
to above versus below center on the strut? Are there any photos or
drawings showing the bracket on the spar? I assume a bolt through the
center of the spar is the least harmful. Where should the second bolt
be located? Is there a rule of thumb for distance from the edge of a
spar to make a bolt penetration? Is a U shaped bracket with a tab
welded on for attachment or two flat strips bolted on better or easier?
I have observed various methods of attaching brackets on the struts at
the Brodhead meets but have never found a spar bracket to observe.
Thank you.
Ralph in SD
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC AEROSPACE CORP]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | jury strut to spar idea--attach points |
Ralph,
I hope this sketch helps you out.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: jury strut to spar idea--attach points |
| From: | "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com> |
Mike,
Based on the spar design and your previous post... I'm guessing this is an archival
sketch as well. Is there a central repository of these available?
This sketch answers my previous question about forming the full thickness sections
as well using 1/2" material as a spar base.
Thanks,
Tools
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=362949#362949
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
Here are my attach brackets. They are machined from aluminum angle. I plan to use
the aluminum stream line jury strut from here:
http://carlsonaircraft.com/struts.html
Michael Perez
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC AEROSPACE CORP]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | photos, sketches |
Chris Tracy has a fantastic Piet photo web site here: http://www.westcoastpiet.com/
Some of my sketches are here: http://www.westcoastpiet.com/images/Mike%20Cuy%20A-65%20Piet/mike_cuy_3.htm
Mike C.
PS- Gene R. is correct about my non-routed 1/2" spruce web-based spar idea--more
expensive than routing a 1" stock for spars.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: to route or not to route |
| From: | "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca> |
That's a funny thing about spar material.
Currently, Aircraft Spruce lists the same price per lineal foot for 1" x 4 3/4"
as for 3/4" x 4 3/4". The price for 1/2" x 4 3/4" spar material is only 20% less
(for only half the material), and you will need to also buy some capstrip
material to go with the 1/2" web. So the built-up spar will probably be more expensive
overall.
I recall not too long ago looking at the same comparison, and at that time, the
price for 1/2" and 3/4" were equal, but the 1" spar material was a bit more expensive.
Wicks has a very similar pricing structure as Aircraft Spruce for their
spar material.
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=362958#362958
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: to route or not to route |
Agreed. A few years back when I was deciding what to use for, or how to make, my
spars, I sort of went through the same exercise. I settled on the solid 3/4".
Michael Perez
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: to route or not to route |
| From: | "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com> |
Probably based on the relationship between the sawmiller/kiln and the supplier
(wicks or aircraft spruce).
They probably make both 1 and 3/4 out of 5/4 stock to ensure they can get good
yield. They might make 1/2" out of the same stuff, but spend even more time planing,
so it costs more... for less! Or something like that.
Often times, anything other than 4/4 stock cost more per board foot, just because
the mills don't saw as much of it. 4/4 is typically used to yield 3/4" boards.
However in the case of spars, and the exceptional long lengths, they may
have to use 5/4 to reliably get 3/4. Also, they may just specify 5/4 so they
can get whatever it is they need out of it and not worry about it too much.
No doubt it all seems a bit odd.
Tools
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=362970#362970
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Tube "Improved" gear questions |
| From: | Mark Roberts <mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com> |
Hi Guys:
I am about to go join the fuse halves together and thought I'd get a head
start on the landing gear planning.
I decided the only thing preventing me from building the steel tubing
landing gear is intimidation of working with metal. So, I am gonna have the
gear parts fabricated for me and welded up by a professional welder friend
of mine.
My question is about the springs versus the bungie wrapped 'spring'. Are
there sketches or plans available for the modification somewhere? I am not
sure how to substitute the bungie wrap for the springs. I am assuming all
else is the same...
I plan to order the parts soon and have them working while I am building
the rest of the fuse.
Thanks for the help!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
Ralph, everyone seems anxious to show how they made their jury strut
brackets without actually answering your questions. Your first question was
"is there any advantage to above versus below center on the strut?" Yes,
there is an advantage to positioning the jury struts toward the outboard
side of the lift strut. What is the advantage? This location requires a
shorter jury strut.
Your second question was where to drill the holes in the spar to mount the
jury strut bracket. Ideally, all holes in the spar should be along the
neutral axis, which is the center of the spar. However, as long as the
holes are small and are within the central third of the spar.
Since everyone else is showing their brackets, I'll show mine:
I made them from aluminum angle from Home Depot, bolted to the spar with AN3
bolts in that central third of the spar mentioned above. On the rear spars,
which are routed, I added a spruce doubler under the bracket. The jury
struts attach to the lift struts with an AN42 eyebolt welded into a hole
drilled through the lift struts as described by Mike Cuy.
Hope this answers your questions,
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mouuntain Lake, Virginia
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ralph
Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2012 12:07 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: jury struts
I am seeking information on jury strut material and attachment to spar
methods. I understand the off center rational. Is there any advantage to
above versus below center on the strut? Are there any photos or drawings
showing the bracket on the spar? I assume a bolt through the center of the
spar is the least harmful. Where should the second bolt be located? Is
there a rule of thumb for distance from the edge of a spar to make a bolt
penetration? Is a U shaped bracket with a tab welded on for attachment or
two flat strips bolted on better or easier? I have observed various methods
of attaching brackets on the struts at the Brodhead meets but have never
found a spar bracket to observe.
Thank you.
Ralph in SD
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dick N" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
It was a beautiful day in Minneapolis today and I decided to go fly, I
was out for 1.5 hourd and not cold at all. When I got back to my hangar
I shut the plane down and a car pulled up and I thought here is another
curious person. The man got and walked over and showed me his I.D. card
and said I'm with the FAA and this is a ramp inspection. He asked for
my pilots liscence , medical card ( told him I was sport pilot he
accepted that immediatly ) registration, operating limitations,
airworthiness, Luckily I had all of that and he was on his way .
I'm at a small country airport, they can be anywhere.
Dick N.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack" <jack(at)textors.com> |
| Subject: | Tube "Improved" gear questions |
Here you go Mark.
Jack
DSM
NX1929T
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Roberts
Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2012 7:02 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Tube "Improved" gear questions
Hi Guys:
I am about to go join the fuse halves together and thought I'd get a head
start on the landing gear planning.
I decided the only thing preventing me from building the steel tubing
landing gear is intimidation of working with metal. So, I am gonna have the
gear parts fabricated for me and welded up by a professional welder friend
of mine.
My question is about the springs versus the bungie wrapped 'spring'. Are
there sketches or plans available for the modification somewhere? I am not
sure how to substitute the bungie wrap for the springs. I am assuming all
else is the same...
I plan to order the parts soon and have them working while I am building the
rest of the fuse.
Thanks for the help!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | darmahboy(at)aol.com |
Hey Dick
What was the FAA dudes name?
-----Original Message-----
From: Dick N <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Sent: Tue, Jan 10, 2012 7:33 pm
Subject: Pietenpol-List: nice day
It was a beautiful day in Minneapolis today and I decided to go fly, I was
out for 1.5 hourd and not cold at all. When I got back to my hangar I shut
the plane down and a car pulled up and I thought here is another curious p
erson. The man got and walked over and showed me his I.D. card and said I'
m with the FAA and this is a ramp inspection. He asked for my pilots lisc
ence , medical card ( told him I was sport pilot he accepted that immediatl
y ) registration, operating limitations, airworthiness, Luckily I had al
l of that and he was on his way .
I'm at a small country airport, they can be anywhere.
Dick N.
-= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum -
-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
-= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
-= Photoshare, and much much more:
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-
-========================
-= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
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-========================
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-= -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
-========================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave Millikan <n11dmx(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: N-Number, When to Apply? |
-
Good luck !
I'm approaching 2 yrs and wing completion.
pushing 83, I wanted a "nice " number. you can go on FAA site and search fo
r nos.
I reserved 3 or 4 ($10 for a yr) I finally stuck with NX1QZ
at my age I thot LSA would be the way to go.
searching the FAA site, found forms for same, sent in same , rejected
She sent me another form- (which said , not for LSA)
gave up went for regular experimental, sent that in with $ 5.00.
Rejected .. said was already reserved for LSA- !!
Had to send- $5 to undo LSA and another $5 for new registration.
It came back ok but now said Pistenpol.
Took another 5 wks to get that fixed.
Aint guvmnt wonderful !
Dave- N11DM-- Starduster Too.
--- On Tue, 1/10/12, Bryan Reed wrote:
From: Bryan Reed <reed44(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: N-Number, When to Apply?
Date: Tuesday, January 10, 2012, 1:43 AM
Thanks for the info. I think I will go ahead and send in to have it applied
to the plane. Work schedule and God willing, I would like to be in the air
by the end of the year.
- ---Thanks,
- - - ---Bryan
--------
Working Piet N5289B
While I may not always be right, I apologize well.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=362899#362899
le, List Admin.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: N-Number, When to Apply? |
| From: | "Bryan Reed" <reed44(at)gmail.com> |
Thanks Dave,
"Pissedenpol",X-Ray,One,Quebec,Zulu. Now that would have been a mouthful. :)
Looks like you are closing in on completion. At only 52 myself, my hat is off
to you Sir. I have a stiff back working on mine and you have a year or two on
me.
Take care and may you only encounter blue sky,
Bryan
--------
Working Piet N5289B
While I may not always be right, I apologize well.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=363006#363006
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave Millikan <n11dmx(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Tube "Improved" gear questions |
Mark,
-
Wag Aero sells a spring gear kit with tubing and fittings.
I bot one but haven't looked at it..I'm building wings.
Their PN isM-222-100- $ 282.00.
If you can buy or access welding equip, go ahead and tack weld it then let
the pro finish.
heavy wall tubing is not difficult to weld.
That was my plan on a SA-300.
I only had a short summer course (at Purdue), tack welded, then did the hea
vy
gear parts, then welded the whole thing myself.- It flies still.
Dave- N11DM
--- On Wed, 1/11/12, Mark Roberts wrote:
From: Mark Roberts <mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Tube "Improved" gear questions
Date: Wednesday, January 11, 2012, 1:02 AM
Hi Guys:
I am about to go join the fuse halves together and thought I'd get a head s
tart on the landing gear planning.
I decided the only thing preventing me from building the steel tubing landi
ng gear is intimidation of working with metal. So, I am gonna have the gear
parts fabricated for me and welded up by a professional welder friend of m
ine.
My question is about the springs versus the bungie wrapped 'spring'. Are th
ere sketches or plans available for the modification somewhere? I am not su
re how to substitute the bungie wrap for the springs. I am assuming all els
e is the same...
I plan to order the parts soon and have them working while I am building th
e rest of the fuse.
Thanks for the help!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dick N" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
That was David Nelson from FSDO, MPLS.
----- Original Message -----
From: darmahboy(at)aol.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2012 7:43 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: nice day
Hey Dick
What was the FAA dudes name?
-----Original Message-----
From: Dick N <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
To: pietenpol-list
Sent: Tue, Jan 10, 2012 7:33 pm
Subject: Pietenpol-List: nice day
It was a beautiful day in Minneapolis today and I decided to go fly, I
was out for 1.5 hourd and not cold at all. When I got back to my hangar
I shut the plane down and a car pulled up and I thought here is another
curious person. The man got and walked over and showed me his I.D. card
and said I'm with the FAA and this is a ramp inspection. He asked for
my pilots liscence , medical card ( told him I was sport pilot he
accepted that immediatly ) registration, operating limitations,
airworthiness, Luckily I had all of that and he was on his way .
I'm at a small country airport, they can be anywhere.
Dick N.
" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
p://forums.matronics.com
blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
I disagree!-
-
Ralph wrote: "I am seeking information on jury strut material and attachmen
t to spar methods."
-
The link I attached and Mike C's drawing answers "seeking information on ju
ry strut material."
-
Our pictures-answer "attachment to spar methods."
-
Ralph wrote: "-Are there any photos or drawings showing the bracket on th
e spar?"
-
I think Mike C's drawing and my picture answered that question too.
-
Mike C's drawing and my picture I don't believe qualifies as "everyone bein
g anxious to show..."
-
...AND, by the way... I'm just giving you are hard time...carry on!
Michael Perez
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Tube "Improved" gear questions |
| From: | Mark Roberts <mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com> |
Hey thanks Jack!
Just what I was needing. I yielded to the temptation of going out to the bar
n to build tonight instead of creating my parts list. I am taking my fabrica
tor to lunch next week and I wanted to give him the plans to begin work, so t
his is great!
I bought the Obechi ply flooring today and tomorrow the epoxy gets mixed to j
oin the cross members to the sides. Hope to have the floor in this weekend!
Mark
Sent from my iPad
On Jan 10, 2012, at 5:31 PM, "Jack" wrote:
> Here you go Mark
> Jack
> DSM
> NX1929T
>
>
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-li
st-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Roberts
> Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2012 7:02 PM
> To: pietenpol-list
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Tube "Improved" gear questions
>
> Hi Guys:
>
> I am about to go join the fuse halves together and thought I'd get a head s
tart on the landing gear planning.
>
> I decided the only thing preventing me from building the steel tubing land
ing gear is intimidation of working with metal. So, I am gonna have the gear
parts fabricated for me and welded up by a professional welder friend of mi
ne.
>
> My question is about the springs versus the bungie wrapped 'spring'. Are t
here sketches or plans available for the modification somewhere? I am not su
re how to substitute the bungie wrap for the springs. I am assuming all else
is the same...
>
> I plan to order the parts soon and have them working while I am building t
he rest of the fuse.
>
> Thanks for the help!
>
> Mark
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> http://forums.matronics.com
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | helspersew(at)aol.com |
Hi Dick,
I have never actually heard of anyone getting ramp checked until your post.
I wonder how rare this actually is. Anybody else have any anecdotal inform
ation concerning this subject?
Seems really odd that he showed-up just out of the blue. Were you the only
one flying that day? If others were flying, did he go after them too? Just
curious.
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN
-----Original Message-----
From: Dick N <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Sent: Tue, Jan 10, 2012 7:33 pm
Subject: Pietenpol-List: nice day
It was a beautiful day in Minneapolis today and I decided to go fly, I was
out for 1.5 hourd and not cold at all. When I got back to my hangar I shut
the plane down and a car pulled up and I thought here is another curious p
erson. The man got and walked over and showed me his I.D. card and said I'
m with the FAA and this is a ramp inspection. He asked for my pilots lisc
ence , medical card ( told him I was sport pilot he accepted that immediatl
y ) registration, operating limitations, airworthiness, Luckily I had al
l of that and he was on his way .
I'm at a small country airport, they can be anywhere.
Dick N.
-= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum -
-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
-= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
-= Photoshare, and much much more:
-
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
-
-========================
-= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
-= Same great content also available via the Web Forums!
-
-= --> http://forums.matronics.com
-
-========================
-= - List Contribution Web Site -
-= Thank you for your generous support!
-= -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
-========================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Greg Bacon <gbacon67(at)gmail.com> |
Dick,
Glad everything worked out for you. Underscores the importance of having
all your ducks in a row. You never know.....
Greg Bacon
On Tue, Jan 10, 2012 at 7:28 PM, Dick N wrote:
> **
> It was a beautiful day in Minneapolis today and I decided to go fly, I was
> out for 1.5 hourd and not cold at all. When I got back to my hangar I shut
> the plane down and a car pulled up and I thought here is another curious
> person. The man got and walked over and showed me his I.D. card and said
> I'm with the FAA and this is a ramp inspection. He asked for my pilots
> liscence , medical card ( told him I was sport pilot he accepted that
> immediatly ) registration, operating limitations, airworthiness, Luckily
> I had all of that and he was on his way .
> I'm at a small country airport, they can be anywhere.
>
> Dick N.
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
--
Greg Bacon
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Tube "Improved" gear questions |
| From: | "899PM" <rockriverrifle(at)hotmail.com> |
Make SURE you widen out (fore & aft) both the upper and lower attach points for
this gear to eliminate tube contact when the gear "gives". I had to dent one
of my tubes for clearance.
--------
PAPA MIKE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=363038#363038
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC AEROSPACE CORP]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | jury strut help for Ralph |
I'm glad that Jack Phillips, myself, and Mike Perez were able to help answe
r your questions Ralph.
That is what the list is about, not to puff up or degrade anyone's words or
efforts. I'm all about keeping
the list very positive like it used to be.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: jury strut help for Ralph |
"...keeping the list very positive like it used to be."
I look forward to that as well Mike.
Michael Perez
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph" <ralphhsd(at)itctel.com> |
Thanks to all who responded to my jury strut questions. One more
question. Is there an easy way to access the photos and attachments
that get stripped off of the daily digest version of the forum?
Ralph
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Woodflier(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Bungee gear versus springs |
Mark, my plans included BHP's cub-style split axle gear, which use bungees
in tension for shock absorption. The shock struts attach at the apex of the
gear "V" down by the wheel, and go diagonally up to the opposite landing
gear/flying strut fitting on the fuselage. If you look at the Cub and other
later airplanes with this type gear, they have a solid "V" between the
gear, and the shock struts attached to the apex of that fixed "V" Go look at
any J-3 Cub to see what I mean.
My point on this is that the angle between the gear "V" and the shock strut
is pretty small on BHP's design. If the cables limiting the travel of the
shock strut are a bit too long, the gear can go 'over center' with a hard
landing, or in my case, a tight turn on the ground heavily loaded. If that
happens, the gear collapses. I have a nice CloudCars wood prop, with 40
hours on it, and 4 inches off the tips to show the result. So, if you do the
bungee shocks, look at adding in that center "V" on the shock strut system.
Go look at a Cub and you'll be pretty close to what you need for the Piet.
I fixed my bungee struts with a shortened limit cable, and by doubling up
the bungee wraps. In 60 hours since the problem, they've worked fine, but I
worry a bit when I have a passenger and a full load of gas.
The other option is to go with the die spring struts, which provide shock
absorption in compression rather than tension. There are drawings on the
list-serve for this design. Replacing my bungee struts with the spring struts
is my winter-time project.
Matt Paxton
NX629ML
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dick N" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
The airport was fairly busy with small planes and yes he went from one
to another. I will repeat he was completely proffesional and when I
produced the documents he was gone to check someone else.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2012 6:21 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: nice day
Hi Dick,
I have never actually heard of anyone getting ramp checked until your
post. I wonder how rare this actually is. Anybody else have any
anecdotal information concerning this subject?
Seems really odd that he showed-up just out of the blue. Were you the
only one flying that day? If others were flying, did he go after them
too? Just curious.
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN
-----Original Message-----
From: Dick N <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
To: pietenpol-list
Sent: Tue, Jan 10, 2012 7:33 pm
Subject: Pietenpol-List: nice day
It was a beautiful day in Minneapolis today and I decided to go fly, I
was out for 1.5 hourd and not cold at all. When I got back to my hangar
I shut the plane down and a car pulled up and I thought here is another
curious person. The man got and walked over and showed me his I.D. card
and said I'm with the FAA and this is a ramp inspection. He asked for
my pilots liscence , medical card ( told him I was sport pilot he
accepted that immediatly ) registration, operating limitations,
airworthiness, Luckily I had all of that and he was on his way .
I'm at a small country airport, they can be anywhere.
Dick N.
" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
p://forums.matronics.com
blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Bungee gear versus springs |
| From: | "kevinpurtee" <kevin.purtee(at)us.army.mil> |
I changed my bungees to springs. One of the bungees failed after several landings
following the 2010 Brodhead landing debacle. The safety cable prevented major
damage and we did a field expedient repair to get home.
The spring design allows you to rely on steel instead of rubber. I used Hans van
der Voort's design. It took me a weekend to make the change.
--------
Kevin "Axel" Purtee
NX899KP
Austin/Georgetown, TX
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=363082#363082
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Hofmann <jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Bungee gear versus springs |
Kevin,
Do you find the landing gear more "bouncy" since the change to springs
or do you notice any difference at all?
-john-
John Hofmann
Vice-President, Information Technology
The Rees Group, Inc.
2424 American Lane
Madison, WI 53704
Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150
Fax: 608.443.2474
Email: jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc.com
On Jan 11, 2012, at 11:47 AM, kevinpurtee wrote:
>
> I changed my bungees to springs. One of the bungees failed after
several landings following the 2010 Brodhead landing debacle. The
safety cable prevented major damage and we did a field expedient repair
to get home.
>
> The spring design allows you to rely on steel instead of rubber. I
used Hans van der Voort's design. It took me a weekend to make the
change.
>
> --------
> Kevin "Axel" Purtee
> NX899KP
> Austin/Georgetown, TX
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=363082#363082
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Bungee gear versus springs |
| From: | "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca> |
Several years ago, Hans posted a copy of his LG spring plans at mykitplane.com,
here:
http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/filesList2.cfm?AlbumID=75
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=363088#363088
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Bungee gear versus springs |
| From: | "kevinpurtee" <kevin.purtee(at)us.army.mil> |
Thanks, Bill. There you go, Terry.
@John - I noticed more bounce initially when taxiing but I got used to it and there
was no adverse impact. Takeoffs and landings feel the same.
--------
Kevin "Axel" Purtee
NX899KP
Austin/Georgetown, TX
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=363092#363092
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | FOR SALE (PROJECT) |
| From: | "bcolleran" <bcolleran(at)comcast.net> |
Hey guys and girls. My son is due any day now and I have lost interest in my piet
project. Currently as it sits I have the airframe Wood only 90% done. The
turtle deck and panels need to be installed. I have the panels cut out. I
have the spars and all the wood to complete the ribs. I will include the plans
too. I bought the wood kit from aircraft spruce. The project has been sitting
for about a year now. All joints were glued with t-88. I hate to see it
go but I know it will be better served with someone else. I am asking $1,200
for everything. If you are interested and would like to see some pictures please
feel free to call me at 412-874-7726 or email me at bcolleran(at)comcast.net
Thanks,
Bill
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=363093#363093
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Barry Davis" <bed(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | FOR SALE (PROJECT) |
What part of the world is this project located?
bed
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of bcolleran
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2012 3:36 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: FOR SALE (PROJECT)
-->
Hey guys and girls. My son is due any day now and I have lost interest in
my piet project. Currently as it sits I have the airframe Wood only 90%
done. The turtle deck and panels need to be installed. I have the panels
cut out. I have the spars and all the wood to complete the ribs. I will
include the plans too. I bought the wood kit from aircraft spruce. The
project has been sitting for about a year now. All joints were glued with
t-88. I hate to see it go but I know it will be better served with someone
else. I am asking $1,200 for everything. If you are interested and would
like to see some pictures please feel free to call me at 412-874-7726 or
email me at bcolleran(at)comcast.net
Thanks,
Bill
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=363093#363093
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: FOR SALE (PROJECT) |
Bill, I can appreciate having higher priorities then building a plane. I am
sure this was not an easy decision to come to and I bet you have been wres
tling with it for quite some time.
-
If I may...if your situation allows, put off selling until after your son a
rrives. Wait for your world to stop spinning and see if the itch comes back
.
-
Hate to see a project go, but as you said, it will help others along that a
re in the works.
Michael Perez
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Paint scheme preview |
| From: | "BYD" <billsayre(at)ymail.com> |
Well, there's still a lot of work to be done, but here's a shot of the Piet at
the airport with all the major pieces in formation.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=363123#363123
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/covered_airport_194.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dick N" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Paint scheme preview |
Nice looking Piet. Are those Harley Davidson front wheels?
Dick N
----- Original Message -----
From: "BYD" <billsayre(at)ymail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2012 9:30 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Paint scheme preview
>
> Well, there's still a lot of work to be done, but here's a shot of the
> Piet at the airport with all the major pieces in formation.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=363123#363123
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/covered_airport_194.jpg
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Boyer <boyerjrb(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Paint scheme preview |
Nice looking Piet Bill; Congratulations.
Jim B.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Peeps Pietenpol Model |
| From: | "aerocarjake" <flight.jake(at)gmail.com> |
A Pieten-pair made out of sticks...... Just like the real thing.... Coooool....
--------
Jake Schultz - curator,
Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=363127#363127
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | West Coast get-together |
Sorry if this is a repeat, but has a date been set for the
West Coast Piet get-together? I seem to remember that it
would be held at some lake or the other but I can't remember
where or when. You have to remember that I'm 60 years old
now and things get lost easily and quickly in the recesses of
my brain.
I still don't have Scout up here but am going to try to fly
the airplane up to Oregon sometime in the spring, thus the
reason for my inquiry. It might all play into a workable
schedule.
In an ideal world, we would have Jim Markle up in northern
California at the same time as the get-together and could
enjoy his company, too.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
Flying Squirrel N2069Z "Rocket"
Medford, OR
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Paint scheme preview |
| From: | helspersew(at)aol.com |
Bill,
Wow a great-looking Piet. Always have liked that green. Just made it my new
desktop!! Congratulations!!
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN
-----Original Message-----
From: BYD <billsayre(at)ymail.com>
Sent: Wed, Jan 11, 2012 9:33 pm
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Paint scheme preview
Well, there's still a lot of work to be done, but here's a shot of the Piet
at
he airport with all the major pieces in formation.
ead this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=363123#363123
ttachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/covered_airport_194.jpg
-========================
-= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum -
-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
-= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
-= Photoshare, and much much more:
-
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
-
-========================
-= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
-= Same great content also available via the Web Forums!
-
-= --> http://forums.matronics.com
-
-========================
-= - List Contribution Web Site -
-= Thank you for your generous support!
-= -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
-========================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Paint scheme preview |
Absolutely Beautiful! Where is it?
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of BYD
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2012 10:31 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Paint scheme preview
Well, there's still a lot of work to be done, but here's a shot of the Piet
at the airport with all the major pieces in formation.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=363123#363123
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/covered_airport_194.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark Stanley" <mmrally(at)nifty.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Paint scheme preview |
Now that's a nice looking Piet, Great job!
Mark S
Japan
-----Original Message-----
From: BYD
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2012 12:30 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Paint scheme preview
Well, there's still a lot of work to be done, but here's a shot of the Piet
at the airport with all the major pieces in formation.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gboothe5" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | West Coast get-together |
Oscar,
The West Coast Piet Gathering has ALWAYS been the first weekend of June! ;-)
So, mark June 2nd as your target date. Frazier Lake, 1C9, is your
destination. This should be a special year, as I am pretty sure Mike Groah
will be there with his beautiful, new Corvair powered Piet that he and his
dad are finishing up!
Gary from Cool
NX308MB
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Oscar Zuniga
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2012 9:10 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: West Coast get-together
Sorry if this is a repeat, but has a date been set for the
West Coast Piet get-together? I seem to remember that it
would be held at some lake or the other but I can't remember
where or when. You have to remember that I'm 60 years old
now and things get lost easily and quickly in the recesses of
my brain.
I still don't have Scout up here but am going to try to fly
the airplane up to Oregon sometime in the spring, thus the
reason for my inquiry. It might all play into a workable
schedule.
In an ideal world, we would have Jim Markle up in northern
California at the same time as the get-together and could
enjoy his company, too.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
Flying Squirrel N2069Z "Rocket"
Medford, OR
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | August 1969 American Aircraft Modeler magazine. |
| From: | "Gottfried F. Zojer" <goenzoy(at)gmail.com> |
Hello to everyone,
It s my first post to this mailing list so apologies if I m asking for
something what was asked already.
Well what I m basically looking for is a plan of Pietenpol Air Camper like
shown on the following webpage.
http://www.airplanesandrockets.com/airplanes/pietenpol-air-camper-aug-1969-AAM.htmand
according to the writer
it is a scan from the August 1969 American Aircraft Modeler magazine.
Hope somebody can advise
Thanks for any feedback
Gottfried
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> |
Beautiful looking plane Bill, congratulations!!
Very cool to see new Ford added to the roster!!!
Keep us up to date as the big day approaches.
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark Stanley" <mmrally(at)nifty.com> |
| Subject: | Re: August 1969 American Aircraft Modeler magazine. |
Hi Gottfried,
Welcome, I just had a look at the site and I noticed that there is a
link to the AMA plans site.
Have you checked with them as to the availibility?
If you want a 28=9D span Piet, try the one at =98Small
Flying Arts=99, http://smallflyingarts.com/free-plans/
Good Luck
Mark S
Japan
From: Gottfried F. Zojer
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2012 10:25 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: August 1969 American Aircraft Modeler magazine.
Hello to everyone,
It s my first post to this mailing list so apologies if I m asking for
something what was asked already.
Well what I m basically looking for is a plan of Pietenpol Air Camper
like shown on the following webpage.
http://www.airplanesandrockets.com/airplanes/pietenpol-air-camper-aug-196
9-AAM.htm and according to the writer
it is a scan from the August 1969 American Aircraft Modeler magazine.
Hope somebody can advise
Thanks for any feedback
Gottfried
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Paint scheme preview |
Looks great! Very clean looking...simple yet elegant.
I see the axle extends out past the wheels some, curious to know why.
Michael Perez
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Paint scheme preview |
| From: | "BYD" <billsayre(at)ymail.com> |
> Nice looking Piet. Are those Harley Davidson front wheels?
> Dick N
Thanks Dick, I used Yamaha 650 wheels, disks, calipers and mounted the master cylinder
from the handle-bars on the rudder-bar so the total system would have
the same power/feel as the motorcycle.
-----------
> Absolutely Beautiful! Where is it?
>
> Jack Phillips
> NX899JP
> Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
Thanks also Jack (and all the others), this picture was taken at the Tacoma Narrows
Airport in the State of Washington (aerocarjake aka Jake Schultz is a nearby
builder).
-----------
> You've come a long way Bill and it's paying off in spades! You'll like this one
from the air too as you won't have that bottom wing blocking your view like
the Boredom Fighter:) Do you still have the BF by chance?
> Great looking Pietenpol you've created!
>
> Mike C.
Hey Mike, thanks its been a long build but enjoyable. My good friend Don Wainwright
fabricated the wings while I made two fuselages and modified two engines
so its possible we may see a sister ship some day. Youre right about the lower
wing missing and I will enjoy that. I just hope it flies well. The BF ended
up in Chile of all places.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=363152#363152
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Paint scheme preview |
| From: | "BYD" <billsayre(at)ymail.com> |
> "speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.n"]Looks great! Very clean looking...simple yet elegant.
>
> I see the axle extends out past the wheels some, curious to know why.
>
> Michael Perez
> Karetaker Aero
> www.karetakeraero.com
>
Michael because I used stock Yamaha 650 motorcycle wheels, the hubs are not as
wide as some say they should be on a plane. On the other hand, I have heard
of them being used successfully so Im uncertain which is true. The extensions
are my way of hedging my bet and if I can determine that wider hubs are needed
(without damage to the axles) then I could fabricate wider hubs and mount them
on the same axle. If they prove adequate, I can always cut off the excess
so they look more reasonable. I had also thought they might make a good step,
but I dont see the need for that.
Bill
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=363156#363156
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Paint scheme preview |
I understand...good plan. I like the step idea too.
-I don't have them in front of me, but I believe I made my hubs no shorte
r than 6". (Outside flange face to outside flange face) Buchanan's, who sup
plied the rims and spokes seemed to think 6" was a good number. (Going from
memory.)
If you have a more detailed picture of your wheel/hub/brake assembly, I wou
ld love to see it.
Again, nice plane.
Michael Perez
=0AKaretaker Aero
=0Awww.karetakeraero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Paint scheme preview |
| From: | "Piet2112" <curtdm(at)gmail.com> |
But of course, a foot peg for Mary Beth!
Don not archive
Curt Merdan
Flower Mound, TX
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=363162#363162
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "bender" <jfaith(at)solairusaviation.com> |
Hey guys...
on the model a cowling.. the drawing shows the wood disk attached to the front
of the engine.. then the 2 sides and bottom and a cone in the front..
It looks like the original intent was to screw the aluminum sheet to the wood disk.
but i've seen the cone riveted to the sides and bottom on the west coast piet site..
do you guys have the wood disk??
is the cowl attached to the front at all??
I'm working om mine.. and am attaching to the wood disk now.. but..if there's a
better way ?
jeff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=363167#363167
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Paint scheme preview |
| From: | "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com> |
Very very nice! What is the prop? Or where did you get the plan for carving it.
it looks like the old Lawrence and Fahlin style props that Mr. Pietenpol used.
Nice.
Don Emch
NX899DE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=363169#363169
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | helspersew(at)aol.com |
Jeff,
I had all these same questions when I did mine. I had to make that wood dis
c 3 times before I settled on about 1/2" thick spruce board glued to 1/8" p
lywood. Then I had to faddiddle around trying to get the correct angle on i
t all the way around the circumference. That angle was not constant, depend
ing on how the side and bottom cowls approached it. (I made my side and bot
tom cowl all one piece a-la-Walt Bowe from California.) I kept the board in
there so I had something to screw the aluminum disc and cowls to. After i
t was all together I removed the bolts that held the wood disc to the engin
e, so that the engine vibration could not be transferred to the cowl pieces
. And that engine really jumps, up off the ash engine mounts, by about 1" o
n start-up, against the springs on the engine hold-down bolts. That cowling
was one of the most challenging parts of the airplane. Ended up making som
e of the pieces twice. I guess if was all riveted together then maybe you c
ould get rid of the wood disc? But if that were the case, lets say you want
ed to remove your cowlings. I would have to remove the prop and prop flange
from the engine first, because the hole in my aluminum cone is smaller tha
n the Comntinental-style (6-bolt) prop flange.
Put your thinking cap on.
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN
-----Original Message-----
From: bender <jfaith(at)solairusaviation.com>
Sent: Thu, Jan 12, 2012 10:13 am
Subject: Pietenpol-List: "A" cowling
>
Hey guys...
n the model a cowling.. the drawing shows the wood disk attached to the fro
nt
f the engine.. then the 2 sides and bottom and a cone in the front..
t looks like the original intent was to screw the aluminum sheet to the woo
d
isk.
ut i've seen the cone riveted to the sides and bottom on the west coast pie
t
ite..
o you guys have the wood disk??
is the cowl attached to the front at all??
I'm working om mine.. and am attaching to the wood disk now.. but..if there
's a
etter way ?
jeff
ead this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=363167#363167
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "bender" <jfaith(at)solairusaviation.com> |
So you did screw the cowl to the disc... i made the bottom one piece too.. and
was screwing it all to the wood disc... maybe i'm heading in the right direction
it looked like you had rivets in yours in the photos... i'll look again
Thanks Dan
jeff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=363187#363187
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Paint scheme preview |
| From: | "BYD" <billsayre(at)ymail.com> |
> Don Emch"]Very very nice! What is the prop? Or where did you get the plan for
carving it. it looks like the old Lawrence and Fahlin style props that Mr.
Pietenpol used. Nice.
>
> Don Emch
> NX899DE
You're right Don, the prop is the same profile and airfoil decided on by Bernard
and the type he had carved by Ole Fahlin. This particular propeller was carved
by Chad Willie some years ago.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=363197#363197
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Greenlee" <jmgreenlee(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | My Piet is out of long term storage |
Hello all,
I've got the Piet back out of long term storage and into my workshop. I am
going to build a new wooden gear, so a few questions:
1. Who out there is building hubs for wire wheels similar to the
Pavliga pattern. My original wheels do not have brakes so I am considering
building a similar set of wheels with a flange for mounting brakes.
2. I never found a good way to jig the wooden (29 plans) gear. I got
it together by trial and error, eventually, but am looking for a more
fool-resistant way to jig it to get a more predictable result.
3. I am thinking about adding brakes similar to those designed and
carefully engineered by the great and exalted Larry Williams. Does anybody
have any sketches/drawings/dimensions for these?
Thanks! And I am anxiously awaiting your collective sage advice.
JMG
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: My Piet is out of long term storage |
| From: | "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca> |
Here are answers to two out of your three questions:
1. Ken Perkins makes very nice wheel hubs:
http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoGalleryList2.cfm?AlbumID=8
and Airdrome Aeroplanes also offers them for sale:
http://www.airdromeaeroplanes.com/heavydutywheels.html
2. Chris Tracy has a well documented description of setting up and building his
wooden gear at his superb website:
http://westcoastpiet.com/wood_gear_construction.htm
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=363221#363221
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: My Piet is out of long term storage |
Well John, I can tell you how I handled mine...you'll need to decide if it is helpful
or not.
I don't know of anyone building wire wheel hubs. If you have access to the tools,
and the drive to learn, you can fabricate your own to your exact needs. (Such
as the brake mounting flanges you describe.) I made my own and it was not difficult
at all.
Afraid I can't help much in the jigging of the legs department. I have a tile floor
in my shop so I used those 1' squares as a guide along with some masking
tape to lay out my gear. I had the fuselage set right side up, ( some build with
the fuselage up side down) at the deck angle I wanted with the tail wheel height
figured in. Once positioned over my center line marked on the floor, using
plumb bobs, I stuck masking tape on the grid floor and marked my reference
lines and measurements on those. I made and positioned my ash blocks on the floor
and worked up to the fuselage.
I have no intell. on WW's brake set up, I used simple go kart band brakes. I plan
to only use the brakes to keep from rolling down hill into the fuel pit or
another plane, so I felt a ton of stopping power was not needed.
If interested, contact me off list and I can provide more details and photos of
what I have.
Good luck.
Michael Perez
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: My Piet is out of long term storage |
| From: | "Catdesigns" <Catdesigns(at)att.net> |
John
What a treat to hear your back in the Pietenpol community. I started building my
Pietenpol about the time you were finishing your plane. I always wondered what
happened to you.
As Bill already said I have documented the build of the wood landing gear on my
website. You will have to modify the procedure slightly for a finished plane
but it should make you rebuild much easier.
I have some sketches on the webpage that Santiago Morete from Argentina sent me
that Dan Helsper sent him. (got to love the internet). They are similar to the
wheels Larry Williams built.
http://www.westcoastpiet.com/images/Santiago%20Morete/pictures.htm
--------
Chris
Sacramento, CA
WestCoastPiet.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=363230#363230
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "l.morlock" <l.morlock(at)att.net> |
Jeff, here's a picture of my cowling up in Columbus. I have a wood disk,
but it floats on the front of the engine, not attached. The two studs in
the front of the engine to locate the flywheel housing are countersunk into
the wood disk, which helps give it support and keep it in position.
Larry Morlock
----- Original Message -----
From: "bender" <jfaith(at)solairusaviation.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2012 11:10 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: "A" cowling
>
>
> Hey guys...
> on the model a cowling.. the drawing shows the wood disk attached to the
> front of the engine.. then the 2 sides and bottom and a cone in the
> front..
> It looks like the original intent was to screw the aluminum sheet to the
> wood disk.
> but i've seen the cone riveted to the sides and bottom on the west coast
> piet site..
> do you guys have the wood disk??
>
> is the cowl attached to the front at all??
>
> I'm working om mine.. and am attaching to the wood disk now.. but..if
> there's a better way ?
>
> jeff
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=363167#363167
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob edson" <robertse(at)centurytel.net> |
| Subject: | update on NX53WE |
We have the tail feathers and wings painted and ready to start covering
the center section. Then start taking motor and gear off fusalege and
cover it. Then the reassembly starts. I took some pictures but the
lighting on the wing is not good so the yellow is not true to color., it
is good on the tail so the wing color is the same. Will see you at
Brodhead I hope. Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: update on NX53WE |
What I like:
-
The aluminum cowling looks great. Any chance I can see more pictures of it?
I'm wanting to see how it looks from the front, bottom, head on, etc.
-
The airfoil shaped steps. I assume these stay put...or do they slide into t
he fuselage?
-
The P-51 model under the table!
-
The paint...wow!
-
What I DON'T like:
-
I'm not as far along as you.
Michael Perez
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | helspersew(at)aol.com |
Larry, It looks like your aluminum cone overlaps your cowling? My cowling a
ctually overlaps my cone. Maybe I did it the hard way.
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN
-----Original Message-----
From: l.morlock <l.morlock(at)att.net>
Sent: Thu, Jan 12, 2012 2:40 pm
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: "A" cowling
Jeff, here's a picture of my cowling up in Columbus. I have a wood disk,
ut it floats on the front of the engine, not attached. The two studs in
he front of the engine to locate the flywheel housing are countersunk into
he wood disk, which helps give it support and keep it in position.
Larry Morlock
---- Original Message -----
rom: "bender"
o:
ent: Thursday, January 12, 2012 11:10 AM
ubject: Pietenpol-List: "A" cowling
Hey guys...
on the model a cowling.. the drawing shows the wood disk attached to the
front of the engine.. then the 2 sides and bottom and a cone in the
front..
It looks like the original intent was to screw the aluminum sheet to the
wood disk.
but i've seen the cone riveted to the sides and bottom on the west coast
piet site..
do you guys have the wood disk??
is the cowl attached to the front at all??
I'm working om mine.. and am attaching to the wood disk now.. but..if
there's a better way ?
jeff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=363167#363167
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: update on NX53WE |
| From: | "BYD" <billsayre(at)ymail.com> |
Nice! It's a good feeling isn't it?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=363479#363479
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Groah <dskogrover(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: West Coast get-together |
Oscar... As Gary said the West Coast Pietenpol Gathering has been held on t
he first Saturday of June which this year would be June 2nd.- It would be
a great honor to have you and Scout at the gathering.- The gathering is
hosted by Charlie Miller at Frazier lake Air Park, near Hollister CA.- I'
ll get this year's flier out soon and make sure you get one.- =0A=0A-
-- As Gary mentioned I would love to get my plane done and the hours fl
own off so I can make it to the gathering, but it's going to be a stretch.
- I should definitely have it flying but I don't know if I'll be able to
get the 40 hours flown off, but I'll sure give it a try. --=0A---
And you're right, it'd be great if Markle could be out here at that time t
oo.- He attended the gathering the year before last and it was quite the
honor.- =0A=0AMike Groah=0ATulare CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gboothe5" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: My Piet is out of long term storage |
John,
The profile of your Piet has been on my bulletin board for close to four
years! Not to diminish The Chris Tracy method, as it has a proven track
record, but for a completed fuselage, you may wish to just prop up the
fuselage on saw horses, until you get the desired ramp angle, and cut the
legs to fit. With a table saw, it only takes a couple cuts!
Gary from Cool
NX308MB
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Church
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2012 11:01 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: My Piet is out of long term storage
Here are answers to two out of your three questions:
1. Ken Perkins makes very nice wheel hubs:
http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoGalleryList2.cfm?AlbumID=8
and Airdrome Aeroplanes also offers them for sale:
http://www.airdromeaeroplanes.com/heavydutywheels.html
2. Chris Tracy has a well documented description of setting up and building
his wooden gear at his superb website:
http://westcoastpiet.com/wood_gear_construction.htm
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=363221#363221
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | update on NX53WE |
Looking very nice, Bob! There are suddenly a lot of very nice looking
Pietenpolsgetting close to completion. This year should be a very good
Brodhead, if all these new Pietenpols make it there.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob edson
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2012 4:05 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: update on NX53WE
We have the tail feathers and wings painted and ready to start covering the
center section. Then start taking motor and gear off fusalege and cover it.
Then the reassembly starts. I took some pictures but the lighting on the
wing is not good so the yellow is not true to color., it is good on the tail
so the wing color is the same. Will see you at Brodhead I hope. Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "RickBright" <brightwellrichard(at)yahoo.com> |
Not sure if this helps, there is a YouTube video titled " Howard Henderson's Model
A Ford Powered Pientenpol", at 1.09 into the video it shows how he attached
the sheet metal.
I don't even have my plans yet so I have no idea what they show and not sure if
this will help you. It just looked to me the way Howard did it is a pretty neat
job, if this is what you are looking for.....
Rick
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=363546#363546
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: FOR SALE (PROJECT) |
| From: | "bcolleran" <bcolleran(at)comcast.net> |
Hey guys thanks for all the kind words. Putting the project up for sale was not
a easy decision!
The plane is located in East Kingston NH. About a hour north of boston and a hour
south of portland me.
I have attached two pictures of how it sits right now.
Bill
412-874-7726
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=363550#363550
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0018_180.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0582_159.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Width of the Cuy wooden gear modification |
| From: | Mark Roberts <mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com> |
Hi everybody
I'm making the split gear version and am in process of planning out the buil
d. I'm wondering how wide Mike Cuy made his modification to the wooden gear,
as I think I'd like a wide spread to the gear like his, but with a split ge
ar design.
Thanks!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: West Coast get-together |
| From: | "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
Ouch. Looks like I might be a week too late for this one. Right now the academic
calendar is showing the week between quarters to be June 8-17 and that's when
I'll probably be moving the airplane. However, I'll have to see how finals
go the week before June 8.
I am enrolled in the graduate program at Cal Poly, attempting to get my master's
degree in fire protection engineering. Can't let up because at my age, if I
slow down or stop I'll forget everything I've learned and will have to start
over again. It's all I can do to remember how to land an airplane anymore these
days ;o)
At any rate, I can probably stop in at Frazier Lake Airpark whether it's get-together
time or not. I'm thinking of diverting to San Luis Obispo to visit the
Cal Poly campus anyway, and it's not that much of a stretch to go on up to Frazier
from there before getting back on the Interstate 5 route that I plan to
take most of the way north.
--------
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
Air Camper NX41CC
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=363559#363559
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "bender" <jfaith(at)solairusaviation.com> |
totally...Gene...
it was funny to me..jab away..
I had another thought..
the end of the camshaft is covered by the wood disk..and it does leak a bit when
its running if not covered
did you guys put something over the camshaft ?.. i was thinking the wood disk and
a gasket bolted to the engine took care of that...
and the cowl attached to the wood
jeff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=363569#363569
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "bender" <jfaith(at)solairusaviation.com> |
that looks just like the photos of the scout in the '33 magazine..
i usually check the sky scout drawings to clarify stuff i get confused about..they
are better drawings of most of the same stuff
thanks for the video link
jeff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=363570#363570
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | so encouraging!!! |
It's great to hear of all these Piets coming together all of a sudden?
Especially some new Fords!!! Very cool!!! And very encouraging!!!
Welcome back John Greenlee! I loved pics of your plane and always was
hoping you'd brush her off and get her going again.
Regarding the wood disc in Ford cowlings, I did mine like Gene.
Easy-peasey.
Back to the shop, building the exhaust/shroud/muffler system for the new
c-90 installation. Maybe I get run her up soon!
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC AEROSPACE CORP]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | making the landing gear wider than plans |
TWFyaywgZ3JvdXDigJRJIGRvbuKAmXQgcmVjYWxsIGhvdyBtdWNoIHdpZGVyIEkgbWFkZSBteSBn
ZWFyIHN0YW5jZSB0aGFuIHBsYW5zIGJ1dCBjb3VsZCBtZWFzdXJlDQppdCBuZXh0IHRpbWUgSeKA
mW0gYXQgdGhlIGhhbmdhci4gICAoYSByb3VnaCBndWVzcyBwdXRzIGl0IGF0IDbigJ0gd2lkZXIg
dGhhbiBwbGFucykgICBOb3Qgb25seSBkbyBJIGxpa2UgdGhlIGxvb2sgb2YNCnRoZSB3aWRlciBn
ZWFyIHN0YW5jZSAoSmFjayBQaGlsbGlwcyBsb29rIGlzIHNpbWlsYXIgYXMgaGlzIGdlYXIgaXMg
d2lkZXIgdG9vKSBidXQgaXQgZ2l2ZXMgeW91IG1vcmUgZm9vdGluZw0KaW4gc3Ryb25nIGNyb3Nz
d2luZHMuDQoNCk1pa2UgQy4NCg0KW2NpZDppbWFnZTAwMS5qcGdAMDFDQ0QxRDUuRUREMkRCQzBd
DQoNCg0KDQo
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: so encouraging!!! |
AHHHHH! Douwe, did you say C-90!?- If you know any others for sale please
let me know. That's my engine of choice! (After a radial, of course!)
Michael Perez
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: making the landing gear wider than plans |
Mike C. inspired me to make my gear wider as well for the reasons he alread
y stated. The 6" sounds right...the plans show 42-1/2" wide on the inside o
f the ash blocks. (Wood gear plans, obviously.) I believe mine ended up bei
ng 48". If you incorporate brakes, the wheel assemblies may be out even fur
ther to allow for the brakes, making the overall stance wider still.
-
Mike C., I hope you don't mind...
-
Mike also has a slightly lower deck angle, which I also copied. Between the
wider gear and the lower deck angle, the plane has an overall look that re
ally appeals to me.
-
Very, very glad I got to see his plane and he shared these details with me!
Michael Perez
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC AEROSPACE CORP]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | more on deck angle and landing gears |
Mike P. makes a very good point in that the wider gear allows for (on the s
traight axel) the addition of brakes and for me
I wanted better visibility when in the 3-point position for landing, taxiin
g, and takeoff, so I duplicated the deck angle of
the Aeronca Champ I was used to flying-something like 12 degrees nose high
from horizontal.
I also raised my seat 2" higher than plans (to improve over-the-nose visibi
lity) which was a big mistake! Too much of my upper body is exposed to t
he propwash
and on long flights I find myself loosening my seat belt to slip down out o
f the wind some. Had I just left the seat height alone I could have
added cushions to position me best height-wise.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "l.morlock" <l.morlock(at)att.net> |
Yes, the aluminum cone does overlap the cowling - kind of. I attached a
narrow strip of aluminum around the back side of the wood disk with
screws, riveted the cone to that, then used rivnuts to attach the side
panels to the strip, so I can take the side panels off without removing
the cone. That makes the side panels flush with the cone. Hope that
explanation makes sense. But I probably did it the hard way.
Larry
----- Original Message -----
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2012 6:56 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: "A" cowling
Larry, It looks like your aluminum cone overlaps your cowling? My
cowling actually overlaps my cone. Maybe I did it the hard way.
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN
-----Original Message-----
From: l.morlock <l.morlock(at)att.net>
To: pietenpol-list
Sent: Thu, Jan 12, 2012 2:40 pm
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: "A" cowling
Jeff, here's a picture of my cowling up in Columbus. I have a wood
disk,
but it floats on the front of the engine, not attached. The two studs
in
the front of the engine to locate the flywheel housing are countersunk
into
the wood disk, which helps give it support and keep it in position.
Larry Morlock
----- Original Message -----
From: "bender" <jfaith(at)solairusaviation.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2012 11:10 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: "A" cowling
>
>
> Hey guys...
> on the model a cowling.. the drawing shows the wood disk attached to
the
> front of the engine.. then the 2 sides and bottom and a cone in the
> front..
> It looks like the original intent was to screw the aluminum sheet to
the
> wood disk.
> but i've seen the cone riveted to the sides and bottom on the west
coast
> piet site..
> do you guys have the wood disk??
>
> is the cowl attached to the front at all??
>
> I'm working om mine.. and am attaching to the wood disk now.. but..if
> there's a better way ?
>
> jeff
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=363167#363167
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: more on deck angle and landing gears |
| From: | "Bryan Reed" <reed44(at)gmail.com> |
As long as the list is discussing deck angles and landing gear.
I am trying to get my fuse up on gear and am working on building the steel split
gear. I will be using the Hegar 6" spun aluminum wheels with internal disc
brakes.
My question is tail wheel. I plan on ordering the Matco 6" Pneumatic tail wheel.
I am going with the leaf spring set up to get the wheel back farther for more
stable handling. I would like to use the light weight homebuilders leaf from
ACS as weight is an issue this far back on the arm. I am concerned it is enough
spring though and am thinking maybe I should just order the 3-leaf Cub spring.
They don't publish any info on ACS for this spring. Anybody have any experience
with it?
BTW-I would have preferred the wire wheel look but here I will operate almost
exclusively on 1 to 1-1/2 mile long paved runways. I will be bumping regularly
with heavy iron and very active taxiways. It also can be in excess of 130 degrees
on the ramp in mid summer. I have deferred looks to use a conventional set
up that is proven durable with heavy braking.
Thanks,
Bryan
--------
Working Piet N5289B
While I may not always be right, I apologize well.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=363597#363597
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris" <catdesigns(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: My Piet is out of long term storage |
Your absolutely right Gary. The way you and Michael Perez did it is just as
good. The secret to taking the pain out of constructing the wood landing
gear is getting the ash block aligned correctly before cutting the gear
legs. The ash block needs to be parallel to the ground when the fuselage is
at the desired deck angle AND the outer edge needs to be pointing towards
the tailskid/wheel. That is the secret. Fix the ash block in space then fill
in the blanks with the spruce legs.
Chris
Sacramento, Ca
Westcoastpiet.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gboothe5
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2012 5:03 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: My Piet is out of long term storage
John,
The profile of your Piet has been on my bulletin board for close to four
years! Not to diminish The Chris Tracy method, as it has a proven track
record, but for a completed fuselage, you may wish to just prop up the
fuselage on saw horses, until you get the desired ramp angle, and cut the
legs to fit. With a table saw, it only takes a couple cuts!
Gary from Cool
NX308MB
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Church
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2012 11:01 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: My Piet is out of long term storage
-->
Here are answers to two out of your three questions:
1. Ken Perkins makes very nice wheel hubs:
http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoGalleryList2.cfm?AlbumID=8
and Airdrome Aeroplanes also offers them for sale:
http://www.airdromeaeroplanes.com/heavydutywheels.html
2. Chris Tracy has a well documented description of setting up and building
his wooden gear at his superb website:
http://westcoastpiet.com/wood_gear_construction.htm
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=363221#363221
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | making the landing gear wider than plans |
My gear is 54.5" wide at the V-Blocks, with 6" hubs and Cleveland brakes,
which puts the center of each tire about 6' apart. I'm in Raleigh now and
the plane is at Smith Mountain Lake, but I'll measure it the next time I'm
there (in about a week).
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cuy, Michael
D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC AEROSPACE CORP]
Sent: Friday, January 13, 2012 9:30 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: making the landing gear wider than plans
Mark, group-I don't recall how much wider I made my gear stance than plans
but could measure
it next time I'm at the hangar. (a rough guess puts it at 6" wider than
plans) Not only do I like the look of
the wider gear stance (Jack Phillips look is similar as his gear is wider
too) but it gives you more footing
in strong crosswinds.
Mike C.
gear-garage.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: more on deck angle and landing gears |
| From: | "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca> |
Sorry, no practical experience with leaf springs to share.
But I'm curious about your statement regarding wire wheels. What difference would
wire wheels vs others make if you're operating on a long runway. And what difference
does the temperature make?
Bill C.
PS "in excess of 130 degrees" ??? Really?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=363621#363621
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Steve Buss, Jim Koepnick get the AX at EAA |
Fellow Pietenpol Enthusiasts:
The EAA, in the manner of all large, multi-national corporations, has issued
pink slips to about 30 folks in Oshkosh, including Steve Buss, who very
effectively ran the Young Eagles program, and Jim Koepnick, one of the best
aerial photographers in the world. Apparently Jim didn't take enough photos
of warbirds, or of middle-aged men wearing Nomex flight suits.
I believe I've been to my last AirVenture. It's gotten too expensive, and
it simply isn't as much fun as it used to be. I'll just keep going to
Brodhead and Triple Tree and other Fun fly-ins, where the emphasis is on
airplanes, not money.
Here's an article about it:
http://www.flyingmag.com/news/large-scale-layoffs-eaa-part-growth-plan?cmpid
=enews011312
<http://www.flyingmag.com/news/large-scale-layoffs-eaa-part-growth-plan?cmpi
d=enews011312&spPodID=030> &spPodID=030
I would drop my membership to EAA except that I am a Technical Counselor for
my local chapter, and despite the idiots in Oshkosh, our local chapter is
actually building airplanes.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: more on deck angle and landing gears |
| From: | "Bryan Reed" <reed44(at)gmail.com> |
Bill wrote:
"PS "in excess of 130 degrees" ??? Really?"
Bill,
Unfortunately yes. When outside temps hit 150 to 120 the blacktop can really heat
up.
With the long runways comes a long taxi as well as hangar complexes moved further
from the runways. It is not unusual to taxi 1-1/2 miles to the hold short
line. At peak times there may be 20-deep on the taxi ways. Not only is this a
lot of miles of wear on tires, it also means a lot of braking along the way.
Overheated brakes can happen in the best times of the year but it can be exaggerated
during the summer. I am sure that it is possible to make a spoke wheel
with durable bearings and a decent brake set up but it is difficult to match the
wear with a tread that contacts 1/3 the surface. Tire and brake wear on my
last Cessna here was extreme. With my schedule and metal skills (or lack therof
: ) It is easier to go with an off the shelf set up to ensure good operation
and easy repair/replacement. It is also fairly common to have the tower ask
for "expedited arrival" as we have straight in jet traffic as well as turboprop
traffic. It is common to fly the pattern throttled up at 100 mph and carrier
land with speed and yet make the first ramp to clear the runway for the G4 up
your arse. I am not thrilled about this but it is just the way it is here. Don't
feel too sad for me though as other parts of flying in Arizona more than
make up for the airport hassles.
Take care,
Bryan
--------
Working Piet N5289B
While I may not always be right, I apologize well.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=363628#363628
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: more on deck angle and landing gears |
| From: | "Bryan Reed" <reed44(at)gmail.com> |
Sorry I meant 115 (Not 150). : ) Heck, even I would move if that was the temp.
Bryan
--------
Working Piet N5289B
While I may not always be right, I apologize well.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=363629#363629
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Tube "Improved" gear questions |
| From: | "899PM" <rockriverrifle(at)hotmail.com> |
A few pix of my "improved" gear. Forgot what the tread is....I think it's 60".
The springs are bushed with UHMW and give me the ability to vary spring rate via
bicycle shock springs in 50# increments. I think I have a 400# and a 500# on
each side now. In doing it over again, I would move both the upper and lower
attach points as far for and aft as possible.
--------
PAPA MIKE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=363630#363630
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_4157_573.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_4158_309.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_4167_224.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC AEROSPACE CORP]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | leaf springs for tailwheels |
Bryan,
I started with one leaf spring and it wasn't enough resistance. Too much b
ounce and
my tailwheel steering cables were slapping the fuselage bottom. I added a
second
leaf and the ride was much more stable in addition to the fact that if you
only have
one leaf spring and it breaks....your tailwheel will damage your rudder or
more.
(I had one spring break on me at the 200 hour mark and thankfully the secon
d spring saved the day)
A J-3 setup I believe has 3 springs which may be too stiff a ride as the ta
ilwheel weight on a Cub
is generally heavier than most Pietenpols but you can see how it works out.
I'm running a 6" diameter tailwheel I picked up from Wicks.
Mike C.
[cid:image003.jpg(at)01CCD202.5B33A2E0]
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Barry Davis" <bed(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Steve Buss, Jim Koepnick get the AX at EAA |
Jack
Being on the EAA Board of Directors, I can tell you that this article is not
entirely correct. Also since I am involved, I can't talk about (at this
time) details other than we are asking a couple of news agencys to correct
these botched reports like this one. EAA is a great organization and as a
result I have given them a lot of my time for the past 20 years. Serving on
the Board will give you a different outlook on what is involved to have this
organization keep fighting every day to keep our flying freedoms. Sometimes
this economy dictates that the organization must not spend more that it
takes in (unlike our government) but the process of action that is stated in
this article is not correct.
Barry Davis
NX973BP
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack
Phillips
Sent: Friday, January 13, 2012 2:11 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Steve Buss, Jim Koepnick get the AX at EAA
Fellow Pietenpol Enthusiasts:
The EAA, in the manner of all large, multi-national corporations, has issued
pink slips to about 30 folks in Oshkosh, including Steve Buss, who very
effectively ran the Young Eagles program, and Jim Koepnick, one of the best
aerial photographers in the world. Apparently Jim didn't take enough photos
of warbirds, or of middle-aged men wearing Nomex flight suits.
I believe I've been to my last AirVenture. It's gotten too expensive, and
it simply isn't as much fun as it used to be. I'll just keep going to
Brodhead and Triple Tree and other Fun fly-ins, where the emphasis is on
airplanes, not money.
Here's an article about it:
http://www.flyingmag.com/news/large-scale-layoffs-eaa-part-growth-plan?cmpid
=enews011312
<http://www.flyingmag.com/news/large-scale-layoffs-eaa-part-growth-plan?cmpi
d=enews011312&spPodID=030> &spPodID=030
I would drop my membership to EAA except that I am a Technical Counselor for
my local chapter, and despite the idiots in Oshkosh, our local chapter is
actually building airplanes.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Steve Buss, Jim Koepnick get the AX at EAA |
| From: | "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca> |
Wow.
Just curious as to how a move like that would/could strengthen the organization.
In my mind, one of the best things about Sport Aviation magazine is the talented
photography of Jim Koepnick. Every issue seems to have "once in a lifetime"
type photos taken by Jim (every month). Another head scratcher would be the
decision to eliminate the electronic publications department. In recent years,
EAA has made lots of useful information available electronically. For instance,
after ceasing publication of the printed version of The Experimenter, it was
brought back in electronic form (only). I assume that will no longer be published.
And providing EAA members with access (through the website) to the full
catalogue of back issues of Sport Aviation, in my mind, is practically worth
the annual dues. I hope they are not going to put an end to that. And the Homebuilders
Help videos are a very useful tool as well.
I think the most puzzling statement is the following:
"EAA spokesman Dick Knapinski stressed that the changes were made to move the organization
forward to better serve EAAs members and that they were not made as
a cost-cutting measure."
Please.
How are the members going to be better served, if services are canceled, and fewer
people will be left to provide the services that remain? And I find it a little
hard to believe that the laying off of a group of 30 employees is not a
cost-cutting measure. Are we then expected to believe that those 30 employees
suddenly stopped performing their duties adequately? Why not just be honest, and
say that expenses needed to be cut in order to survive?
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=363636#363636
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC AEROSPACE CORP]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | 2.5 hour Piet DVD available |
For years I've had an old VHS tape that I dubbed and then dubbed to DV
D's that shows the
building and flying of my Pietenpol. I haven't had DVD's available for a
year now because
the tape basically wore out but a local shop salvaged (with a moderate amou
nt of tracking 'snow' in spots)
it and I had a run of 50 made.
The first 45 minutes shows a complete walk around of finished airplane. Ne
xt we do some fun flying
scenes over the farmland south of Cleveland, Ohio. Finally show photos and
video of my construction,
photos of other Piets, 1st flight, some of early Brodhead events, 1st time
with the plane at Oshkosh,
and more.
If interested please send a check (don't do Paypal) to Michael Cuy, 16465
Heather Lane, Middleburg Hts. OH
44130. $25 which includes 1st Class shipping. Again, there are portio
ns of the DVD that DOES have snow and it
can be a bit distracting but overall the production is fine.
Warning: Watching this DVD can induce drowsiness to non-airplane people.
If you're lucky the DVD might even
clear out the room for you. This DVD can be used to make uninvited visit
ors, in-laws, outlaws, or people who just
don't know when to go home actually go home.
Thank you,
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: leaf springs for tailwheels |
| From: | "Bryan Reed" <reed44(at)gmail.com> |
Mike,
Thank you. I had not yet thought about no backup if single leaf failed.
The drawing is fantastic. I had been trying to figure out what the best mounting
method would be. I am glad you sent it as I was getting ready to beef it
up more and add unnecessary weight.
Thanks,
Bryan
--------
Working Piet N5289B
While I may not always be right, I apologize well.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=363637#363637
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 2.5 hour Piet DVD available |
| From: | "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca> |
This is a heads-up to all the "newbies" out there.
If you haven't seen, or don't already own a copy of Mike's DVD, you should pop
a check in the mail and get yourself one. There are lots of helpful pointers,
and inside looks at how these planes go together, as well as things to watch for
and pay attention to when building. And there's also a section of footage shot
at Brodhead from a few years back. And then, there's the flying scenes. If
you get stalled in your building process, just pop the DVD in the player and
watch the flying scenes, and you'll be inspired to go back to the workshop and
get going again. Well worth the price of admission. (and also very useful for
non-Pietenpol builders as a cure for insomnia)
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=363640#363640
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: more on deck angle and landing gears |
| From: | "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca> |
Bryan,
I guess you're talking about surface temperatures, not air temperatures. That's
a different story. But I'd be cautious regarding the Piet's climbing abilities
at 120 air temps.
And you will probably have a bit of difficulty flying the pattern at 100mph in
a Piet... you'd most likely have to be in a dive to achieve that speed. And then
if you plan to use brakes to slow down on the ground, you might find yourself
testing out the functionality of your safety harness system, and looking at
the world from a different perspective. Just sayin'.
Are there no smaller, more GA friendly strips around your area?
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=363647#363647
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jeff wilson <jlwilsonnn(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Steve Buss, Jim Koepnick get the AX at EAA |
Fellow Piet People,=0A-=0AI agree with Jack concerning the local Chapters
. That is where we keep the spirit-and enthusiasm of aviation alive. =0AO
ur chapter, 64, at CPS has many members building various aircraft, many buy
other experimentals and "Keep 'em Flying" (B. Kissenger). We have quite a
fleet of Flybabys flying and under construction. =0AWe also have a group of
about 12 guys-restoring a Pietenpol and 2 of those building their own Pi
ets. Sorry 'A' guys, they're all continentals.=0AWe also have many other ac
tivities including Young Eagles. We flew hundreds just this year.=0AAnd spe
cial events like the one-this year that can't be topped for a while.- W
e sponsered the EAA Ford Tri-Motor NC8407, at KCPS and it was a tremendous
sucess.=0AI made a short documentary of the visit. Take a look and see a go
od example of a wide main gear stance on a taildragger.- A direct link to
the video below. (produced and narrated by yours truly)=0A=0Ahttp://www.yo
utube.com/watch?v=ylLwxUDjbtQ&feature=g-upl&context=G22aed9fAUAAAAAAA
=============
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: more on deck angle and landing gears |
| From: | "Bryan Reed" <reed44(at)gmail.com> |
Bill,
Shudder the thought. You mean my 75hp Piet won't climb like a homesick angel
with me and my 250lb friend on board??? Who do I talk to about getting my money
back on this mere mortal airplane??
Unfortunately we are very familiar with DA here. It really limits us in the summer
with the high altitude runways. I had a scare years ago at Grand Canyon
Airport with 6600ft actual and 87deg afternoon. I am quite a cowardly pilot with
high density altitude now.
I flew for years out of DVT and became accustomed to crowded airports. It really
doesn't bother me but it does take a toll on brakes and tires doing that much
taxiing. With high temps comes long runways and thus lots of taxiing. Unfortunatly
that is standard flying here.
Thanks,
Bryan
--------
Working Piet N5289B
While I may not always be right, I apologize well.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=363656#363656
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: My Piet is out of long term storage |
| From: | "Piet2112" <curtdm(at)gmail.com> |
In regards to the ash block, why are you canting it inward?
The plans show it parallel to the ground, but shouldn't it be perpendicular
to the axle?
The last time I was at the Frontiers of Flight Museum in Dallas, I took a
close look at their Curtiss JN-4D Jenny to answer that very question.
On the Jenny, it's perpendicular.
Curt Merdan
Flower Mound, TX
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=363665#363665
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Steve Buss, Jim Koepnick get the AX at EAA |
Barry,
I have tremendous respect for you as one of the few at EAA who have actually
built an airplane (which I feel should be an absolute Requirement for the
president of the organization). If you say it's good, it almost cetainly
is, but it sure doesn't sound like it.
The economy sucks, no question. But if they did this not as a cost-cutting
measure, then all these folks must have been incompetent. I have known
Steve Buss for years and can say he's many things, but incompetent is NOT
one of them. Most likely he didn't fit in with the new regime (he doesn't
fly warbirds).
It has been many years since EAA was concerned with building airplanes
registered as Experimental. If they are not concerned with homebuilt
aircraft, why should we support them? AOPA has a better lobby.
Sorry, I'm a bit bitter over this. I consider Steve Buss a friend, and he
and Jim Koepnick the best assets EAA has since they lost Jack Cox.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Barry Davis
Sent: Friday, January 13, 2012 3:00 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Steve Buss, Jim Koepnick get the AX at EAA
Jack
Being on the EAA Board of Directors, I can tell you that this article is not
entirely correct. Also since I am involved, I can't talk about (at this
time) details other than we are asking a couple of news agencys to correct
these botched reports like this one. EAA is a great organization and as a
result I have given them a lot of my time for the past 20 years. Serving on
the Board will give you a different outlook on what is involved to have this
organization keep fighting every day to keep our flying freedoms. Sometimes
this economy dictates that the organization must not spend more that it
takes in (unlike our government) but the process of action that is stated in
this article is not correct.
Barry Davis
NX973BP
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack
Phillips
Sent: Friday, January 13, 2012 2:11 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Steve Buss, Jim Koepnick get the AX at EAA
Fellow Pietenpol Enthusiasts:
The EAA, in the manner of all large, multi-national corporations, has issued
pink slips to about 30 folks in Oshkosh, including Steve Buss, who very
effectively ran the Young Eagles program, and Jim Koepnick, one of the best
aerial photographers in the world. Apparently Jim didn't take enough photos
of warbirds, or of middle-aged men wearing Nomex flight suits.
I believe I've been to my last AirVenture. It's gotten too expensive, and
it simply isn't as much fun as it used to be. I'll just keep going to
Brodhead and Triple Tree and other Fun fly-ins, where the emphasis is on
airplanes, not money.
Here's an article about it:
http://www.flyingmag.com/news/large-scale-layoffs-eaa-part-growth-plan?cmpid
=enews011312
<http://www.flyingmag.com/news/large-scale-layoffs-eaa-part-growth-plan?cmpi
d=enews011312&spPodID=030> &spPodID=030
I would drop my membership to EAA except that I am a Technical Counselor for
my local chapter, and despite the idiots in Oshkosh, our local chapter is
actually building airplanes.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: My Piet is out of long term storage |
Curt, all I can say is "Try it". I thought the same way, and made dozens of
(fortunately, Pine) "practice struts, trying to get the cuts to line up. I
could get a perfectly flush cut at the fuselage, or at the V-block, but not
both. Once I canted the V-blocks it was easy to get a good fit at both
ends.
I'll send you pictures if you wish...
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Piet2112
Sent: Friday, January 13, 2012 6:33 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: My Piet is out of long term storage
In regards to the ash block, why are you canting it inward?
The plans show it parallel to the ground, but shouldn't it be perpendicular
to the axle?
The last time I was at the Frontiers of Flight Museum in Dallas, I took a
close look at their Curtiss JN-4D Jenny to answer that very question.
On the Jenny, it's perpendicular.
Curt Merdan
Flower Mound, TX
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=363665#363665
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Steve Buss, Jim Koepnick get the AX at EAA |
| From: | Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com> |
Barry,
They have decided to announce to the world that they are a business. For
all it's faults it used to be a family business (with some sort of a
guiding principle). At this point it's not about experimental aviation,
it's about money. Thanks but no thanks
On Fri, Jan 13, 2012 at 2:00 PM, Barry Davis wrote:
> ** ********
> Jack
> Being on the EAA Board of Directors, I can tell you that this article is
> not entirely correct. Also since I am involved, I can't talk about (at th
is
> time) details other than we are asking a couple of news agencys to correc
t
> these botched reports like this one. EAA is a great organization and as a
> result I have given them a lot of my time for the past 20 years. Serving
on
> the Board will give you a different outlook on what is involved to have
> this organization keep fighting every day to keep our flying freedoms.
> Sometimes this economy dictates that the organization must not spend more
> that it takes in (unlike our government) but the process of action that i
s
> stated in this article is not correct.
> Barry Davis
> NX973BP
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Jack Phillips
> *Sent:* Friday, January 13, 2012 2:11 PM
> *To:* pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: Steve Buss, Jim Koepnick get the AX at EAA
>
> Fellow Pietenpol Enthusiasts:****
>
> ** **
>
> The EAA, in the manner of all large, multi-national corporations, has
> issued pink slips to about 30 folks in ****Oshkosh****, including Steve
> Buss, who very effectively ran the Young Eagles program, and Jim Koepnick
,
> one of the best aerial photographers in the world. Apparently Jim didn
=92t
> take enough photos of warbirds, or of middle-aged men wearing Nomex fligh
t
> suits.****
>
> ** **
>
> I believe I=92ve been to my last AirVenture. It=92s gotten too expensive
, and
> it simply isn=92t as much fun as it used to be. I=92ll just keep going t
o
> Brodhead and Triple Tree and other Fun fly-ins, where the emphasis is on
> airplanes, not money.****
>
> ** **
>
> Here=92s an article about it:
> http://www.flyingmag.com/news/large-scale-layoffs-eaa-part-growth-plan?cm
pid=enews011312&spPodID=030
> ****
>
> ** **
>
> I would drop my membership to EAA except that I am a Technical Counselor
> for my local chapter, and despite the idiots in ****Oshkosh****, our
> local chapter is actually building airplanes.****
>
> ** **
>
> Jack Phillips****
>
> NX899JP****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> *
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
*
>
> *
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: My Piet is out of long term storage |
| From: | "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca> |
Curt,
Doesn't seem logical, but I believe that's the way they're supposed to be.
See the attached clip from the FGM drawings. As you can see in the circled areas,
the blocks appear to be drawn canted towards the tail.
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=363669#363669
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/canted_ash_blocks_205.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: My Piet is out of long term storage |
| From: | helspersew(at)aol.com |
Curt,
Fortunately I benefited from the advice of Mike Cuy and Jack Phillips. They
both revealed to me that in order to make that straight-axle gear work out
, the ash blocks had to "aim" back at the tailwheel bracket in order to fit
together geometrically. This was of course before Chris Tracy posted his h
ow-to on Westcoastpiet.com.
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN
-----Original Message-----
From: Piet2112 <curtdm(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Fri, Jan 13, 2012 5:36 pm
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: My Piet is out of long term storage
In regards to the ash block, why are you canting it inward?
he plans show it parallel to the ground, but shouldn't it be perpendicular
o the axle?
The last time I was at the Frontiers of Flight Museum in Dallas, I took a
lose look at their Curtiss JN-4D Jenny to answer that very question.
n the Jenny, it's perpendicular.
Curt Merdan
lower Mound, TX
ead this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=363665#363665
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-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: My Piet is out of long term storage |
Looking at the gear plans that I have from the Pietenpol family, the ash bl
ocks are NOT parallel to the ground.- The SIDE view of the gear shows the
blocks pointed up some towards the rear,- with a note: "This angle shoul
d meet the tail skid". Again, this is a side view.- There is no reference
as to if this angle is with the plane on the ground, (deck angle) or in fl
ight. (level) On the front view, very similar to the attachment Bill C. pos
ted, the way the drawing looks, the blocks MAY also angle towards the tail
and are not parallel to each other. However, since the measurement shows a
distance of 42.5" between the ash blocks with NO reference as to if this is
measured from the forward or rearward-ends of the blocks, one can assume
the blocks ARE parallel to each other.-
-
Lots to interpret!
-
Michael Perez
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB" <steven.d.dortch(at)us.army.mil> |
| Subject: | Re: Steve Buss, Jim Koepnick get the AX at EAA |
Just like some corporations, Organizations can lose sight of their mission and
pick up other agendas. These businesses start to be run by management for management
and not the stockholders. The EAA does a lot of great stuff. Specifically
with the Young Eagle program. The Poberezenys (SP) were pretty much benevolent
rulers who did advance avition by in large. AOPA is pretty good as well.
ABS has had some rough and tumble politics this last couple of years but still
seems to be focused.
Some Orgs that have wandered at times: IMHO
The NRA for a while drifted away from it's mission gun rights and support for gun
owners into a very right leaning organization on all issues. After alienating
many moderate members, it seems to be focused again.
The "nonprofit" AARP is actually a "for-profit" that is run as a business with
a tiny non-profit foundation. I won't deal with them.
Some VFW posts are bastions of Right wing politics. "If you are a Vet you must
be a right thinking American!" Their mission is honoring the dead, Supporting
military comrades,widows and patriotism.
In the military, we call this mission creep. IE We went into Somalia to make sure
that humanitarian aid was reaching those who needed it and not being stolen
by the warlords. Then we started to try to catch the warlords, then we thought
we would build a government. Ended up being a failure.
In the former Yugoslavia we went in to stop the killing, then we started to nation
build and peacekeep. That mission has been a success. Not all mission creep
is bad.
It is difficult to determine what happens when the leadership starts making big
paychecks.
Blue Skies,
Steve D
----- Original Message -----
From: Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com>
Date: Friday, January 13, 2012 18:00
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Steve Buss, Jim Koepnick get the AX at EAA
> Barry,
>
> They have decided to announce to the world that they are a
> business. For
> all it's faults it used to be a family business (with some sort of a
> guiding principle). At this point it's not about experimental
> aviation,it's about money. Thanks but no thanks
>
> On Fri, Jan 13, 2012 at 2:00 PM, Barry Davis < wrote:
>
> > ** ********
> > Jack
> > Being on the EAA Board of Directors, I can tell you that this article is
> > not entirely correct. Also since I am involved, I can't talk about (at this
> > time) details other than we are asking a couple of news agencys to correct
> > these botched reports like this one. EAA is a great organization and as a
> > result I have given them a lot of my time for the past 20 years. Serving on
> > the Board will give you a different outlook on what is involved to have
> > this organization keep fighting every day to keep our flying freedoms.
> > Sometimes this economy dictates that the organization must not spend more
> > that it takes in (unlike our government) but the process of action that is
> > stated in this article is not correct.
> > Barry Davis
> > NX973BP
> >
> > ------------------------------
> > *From:* owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:
> > owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Jack Phillips
> > *Sent:* Friday, January 13, 2012 2:11 PM
> > *To:* pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> > *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: Steve Buss, Jim Koepnick get the AX at EAA
> >
> > Fellow Pietenpol Enthusiasts:****
> >
> > ** **
> >
> > The EAA, in the manner of all large, multi-national corporations, has
> > issued pink slips to about 30 folks in ****Oshkosh****, including Steve
> > Buss, who very effectively ran the Young Eagles program, and Jim Koepnick,
> > one of the best aerial photographers in the world. Apparently Jim didnt
> > take enough photos of warbirds, or of middle-aged men wearing Nomex flight
> > suits.****
> >
> > ** **
> >
> > I believe Ive been to my last AirVenture. Its gotten too expensive, and
> > it simply isnt as much fun as it used to be. Ill just keep going to
> > Brodhead and Triple Tree and other Fun fly-ins, where the emphasis is on
> > airplanes, not money.****
> >
> > ** **
> >
> > Heres an article about it:
> > http://www.flyingmag.com/news/large-scale-layoffs-eaa-part-growth-plan?cmpid=enews011312&spPodID=030
> > ****
> >
> > ** **
> >
> > I would drop my membership to EAA except that I am a Technical Counselor
> > for my local chapter, and despite the idiots in ****Oshkosh****, our
> > local chapter is actually building airplanes.****
> >
> > ** **
> >
> > Jack Phillips****
> >
> > NX899JP****
> >
> > ** **
> >
> > ** **
> >
> > ** **
> >
> > *
> >
> > href="blockedhttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> > href="blockedhttp://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> > href="blockedhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c*
> >
> > *
> >
> ===========
> ===========
> ===========
> ===========
> > *
> >
> >
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gboothe5" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: My Piet is out of long term storage |
Set up is simple...tie 2 strings to the tail post and extend each one to the
forward end of the blocks. That's the angle you need.
Gary from Cool
NX308MB
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Piet2112
Sent: Friday, January 13, 2012 3:33 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: My Piet is out of long term storage
In regards to the ash block, why are you canting it inward?
The plans show it parallel to the ground, but shouldn't it be perpendicular
to the axle?
The last time I was at the Frontiers of Flight Museum in Dallas, I took a
close look at their Curtiss JN-4D Jenny to answer that very question.
On the Jenny, it's perpendicular.
Curt Merdan
Flower Mound, TX
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=363665#363665
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "bender" <jfaith(at)solairusaviation.com> |
thanks guys..
so you covered the cam and the wood is not bolted to the engine after the cowl
is made... its making more sense now
jeff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=363696#363696
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Clif Dawson" <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: My Piet is out of long term storage |
Look closer. The measurement IS at the front and
the blocks ARE angled inwards. I found, as I was
making mine that in order to fit cleanly with both
front and rear legs the block automatically aims at
the tail. I didn't realize any of this until after I had
designed and installed my jig. Fortunately I had the
forsight to use clamps instead of screwing it all
together. That came in handy, especially when it
came to fitting the ash block to both the front and
rear leg. The draftsman assumed that whoever
was making this gear would simply fit the block to
the legs. No need to clutter the drawing with another
bunch of lines and numbers.
http://www.clifdawson.ca/Homepage4-10-06/Pietenpol3.html
Clif
On the front view, very similar to the attachment Bill C. posted, the
way the drawing looks, the blocks MAY also angle towards the tail and
are not parallel to each other. However, since the measurement shows a
distance of 42.5" between the ash blocks with NO reference as to if this
is measured from the forward or rearward ends of the blocks, one can
assume the blocks ARE parallel to each other. Lots to interpret!
Michael Perez
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: making the landing gear wider than plans |
| From: | Mark Roberts <mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com> |
Thanks for all the help guys!
I had originally thought the wood gear was what I was gonna build, but I rea
lly decided that was due to fear of metal work, so I am gonna push through t
hat.
I thought the amount of extra width on your gear was a bit more than 6" Mike
, but I had no real reason to think that so I am glad I'm glad I checked. I s
pent time tonight sketching out a parts order. I am MOST squirmish about the
metal stuff. Once I get started it'll be ok, but it's unfamiliar territory.
Thanks for the input. I'll look forward to your measurements!
Mark
Sent from my iPad
On Jan 13, 2012, at 9:42 AM, "Jack Phillips" wrote:
> My gear is 54.5=9D wide at the V-Blocks, with 6=9D hubs and Cl
eveland brakes, which puts the center of each tire about 6=99 apart. I
=99m in Raleigh now and the plane is at Smith Mountain Lake, but I
=99ll measure it the next time I=99m there (in about a week).
>
> Jack Phillips
> NX899JP
> Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
>
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-li
st-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC AEROSP
ACE CORP]
> Sent: Friday, January 13, 2012 9:30 AM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: making the landing gear wider than plans
>
> Mark, group=94I don=99t recall how much wider I made my gear s
tance than plans but could measure
> it next time I=99m at the hangar. (a rough guess puts it at 6
=9D wider than plans) Not only do I like the look of
> the wider gear stance (Jack Phillips look is similar as his gear is wider t
oo) but it gives you more footing
> in strong crosswinds.
>
> Mike C.
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Tube "Improved" gear questions |
| From: | Mark Roberts <mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com> |
Thank you for those pic's! That helps a lot. I think moving the attach points further
apart makes good sense too.
Sent from my iPad
On Jan 13, 2012, at 11:42 AM, "899PM" wrote:
>
> A few pix of my "improved" gear. Forgot what the tread is....I think it's 60".
The springs are bushed with UHMW and give me the ability to vary spring rate
via bicycle shock springs in 50# increments. I think I have a 400# and a 500#
on each side now. In doing it over again, I would move both the upper and lower
attach points as far for and aft as possible.
>
> --------
> PAPA MIKE
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=363630#363630
>
>
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_4157_573.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_4158_309.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_4167_224.jpg
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark Stanley" <mmrally(at)nifty.com> |
| Subject: | Re: My Piet is out of long term storage |
Hi Mike,
I=99m way off getting to the fitting of the gear stage yet but I
would like to put in my opinion. (it=99s a good pre-planning
excersise anyway)
Looking at the drawing attachment that Bill C posted, I think that the
ash blocks ARE angled towards the tail.
To me, the blocks appear to be drawn at an angle plus there is an extra
line drawn on the inside edge of the landing gear struts, which I guess
would be the rear struts.
If you continue that extra line down, it would intersect with where the
ash blocks would be if they were angled toward the tail.
I also think that the 42.5=9D between the ash blocks could be a
reference to the distance at the point the axle crosses them.
As you say, lots to interpret!
Mark Stanley
Japan
From: Michael Perez
Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2012 9:36 AM
> On the front view, very similar to the attachment
Bill C. posted, the way the drawing looks, the blocks MAY also angle
towards the tail and >are not parallel to each other. However, since the
measurement shows a distance of 42.5" between the ash blocks with NO
reference as to >if this is measured from the forward or rearward ends
of the blocks, one can assume the blocks ARE parallel to each other.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: more on deck angle and landing gears |
| From: | "Bryan Reed" <reed44(at)gmail.com> |
Ryan,
It was a tongue in cheek comment!!!!
Last time I checked Phoenix valley was pretty flat. We do have mountains up North
though and they are great to fly around. In summer we just don't land there.
BTW-The story at Grand canyon was in a 180hp 172 and the Piet will suite me just
fine thanks.
Sincerely sorry you are having a bad day. I hope I was not the cause.
Take care,
Bryan
--------
Working Piet N5289B
While I may not always be right, I apologize well.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=363717#363717
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | John Greenlee's Piet |
| From: | "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com> |
John...That is awesome to hear you are getting back on the Piet. For those of
you not familiar his beautiful bird, check it out here...
http://www.westcoastpiet.com/images/John%20Greenlee/pictures.htm
One thing is for sure, John's Piet may have been out of commission for a while
but he sure is a dedicated attendee of Brodhead. Has made the trip from Texas
for almost 20 years! Yikes!
Don Emch
NX899DE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=363723#363723
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gene Rambo <generambo(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: My Piet is out of long term storage |
I think there are several people asking about the gear on here right now.
I have seen lots of different ways of doing it described on here=2C some mo
re complex than others. I tried about three different ways until hitting o
n what I think is the easiest way. Gary is right=2C two strings from the t
ailpost works perfectly. I would be happy to talk on the phone to anyone w
ho would like to discuss the way I came up with=2C but it is too complicate
d to write out without causing a million questions. Not saying my way is T
HE way=2C or even the best=2C but I tried them all and when the last idea h
it=2C it was a piece of cake! Gene Rambo202-674-1445
From: mmrally(at)nifty.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: My Piet is out of long term storage
Date: Sat=2C 14 Jan 2012 22:03:32 +0900
Hi Mike=2C
I=92m way off getting to the fitting of the gear stage yet but I would like
to put in my opinion. (it=92s a good pre-planning excersise anyway)
Looking at the drawing attachment that Bill C posted=2C I think that the as
h
blocks ARE angled towards the tail.
To me=2C the blocks appear to be drawn at an angle plus there is an extra
line drawn on the inside edge of the landing gear struts=2C which I guess w
ould be
the rear struts.
If you continue that extra line down=2C it would intersect with where the a
sh
blocks would be if they were angled toward the tail.
I also think that the 42.5=94 between the ash blocks could be a
reference to the distance at the point the axle crosses them.
As you say=2C lots to interpret!
Mark Stanley
Japan
From: Michael Perez
Sent: Saturday=2C January 14=2C 2012 9:36 AM
> On the front view=2C very similar to the attachment
Bill C. posted=2C the way the drawing looks=2C the blocks
MAY also
angle towards the tail and >are not parallel to each othe
r.
However=2C since the measurement shows a distance of 42.5
"
between the ash blocks with NO reference as to >if this i
s
measured from the forward or rearward ends of the blocks
=2C one
can assume the blocks ARE parallel to each other.
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matro
nics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: leaf springs for tailwheels |
| From: | "pineymb" <airltd(at)mts.net> |
As Mike mentioned, the best setup appears to be a combination of two leaf springs.
My original setup had a spring that was too stiff and not enough arch to
give proper ground clearance. The original tail wheel was a Maule which was worn
out and no longer was plumb with the aircraft causing some exciting moments
on some landings.
Replace the spring with one from ASS PN 0-614200 designed for a Cub. Removed the
short spring and fabricated a new bracket to accept the existing mount points.
Replaced the tail wheel with a Matco 6" which proved to work very well with
much better ground clearance.
--------
Adrian M
Winnipeg, MB
Canada
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=363730#363730
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00591_144.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00555_179.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> |
Hey Michael!
My C-90 actually began life as an O200 which had to be overhauled anyways,
so it was no big deal to swap out the cam and the few other things that
differentiate the two. (carburetion I think was one, but can't remember now)
I think it was a good way to go as there are lots of runout O200's around.
Seems to definitely be the "engine of choice" in the UK where they fly a
slightly larger/heavier Pietenpol.
Should be good, well see.
Got one exhaust/heat muff/muffler assembly finished last night, one more to
go, then finish some wiring and plumbing and fire her up and get a fresh
blast of encouragement for the final push! Gotta get this bugger done (or
re-done would be more accurate). This rebuilding stuff kinda stinks.
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Stu Brown <stu_brown(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | I LIKE This Guy!!!! |
Subject: Fwd: I LIKE This Guy!!!!
Spoken like a TRUE American!
Rep. Allen West (R-Fla.), a former Army lieutenant colonel, sends THE
WEEKLY STANDARD an email commenting on the Marines' video
<http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/silence-republican-candidates_616690.html>
, and has given us permission to publish it.
allenwest
<http://www.weeklystandard.com/sites/all/files/imagecache/teaser-large/images/teasers/allenwest.jpg>
I have sat back and assessed the incident with the video of our Marines
urinating on Taliban corpses. I do not recall any self-righteous
indignation when our Delta snipers Shugart and Gordon had their bodies
dragged through Mogadishu. Neither do I recall media outrage and
condemnation of our Blackwater security contractors being killed, their
bodies burned, and hung from a bridge in Fallujah.
All these over-emotional pundits and armchair quarterbacks need to
chill. Does anyone remember the two Soldiers from the 101st Airborne
Division who were beheaded and gutted in Iraq?
The Marines were wrong. Give them a maximum punishment under field
grade level Article 15 (non-judicial punishment), place a General
Officer level letter of reprimand in their personnel file, and have them
in full dress uniform stand before their Battalion, each personally
apologize to God, Country, and Corps videotaped and conclude by singing
the full US Marine Corps Hymn without a teleprompter.
As for everyone else, unless you have been shot at by the Taliban, shut
your mouth, war is hell.
"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway."
-John Wayne
The secret of a good sermon is to have a good beginning and a good
ending; and to have the two as close together as possible
- George Burns
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
Thanks Douwe for the good ideas.
-
One reason I was more interested in the -90 then the--200 was because I r
ead someplace that the -90 was lighter. (don't recall where.)- I am VERY
interested in the conversion process you talk about and wonder if it change
s the weight closer to the -90?- Can you point me in the direction to fin
d these overhaul/conversion procedures? Maybe I should search for an O-200
and convert?
-
Definitely keep me abreast of your engine work, first run and subsequent fi
ndings...good or bad.
-
Thanks!
Michael Perez
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | airlion <airlion(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: I LIKE This Guy!!!! |
I like this guy too. Where are all the good candidates out there that will say
OKKKKKKKKK INSTEAD of condemning them to Hell. SEMPER FI. GARDINER
--- On Sat, 1/14/12, Stu Brown wrote:
> From: Stu Brown <stu_brown(at)verizon.net>
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: I LIKE This Guy!!!!
> To:
> Date: Saturday, January 14, 2012, 1:31 PM
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted
> by: Stu Brown
>
>
> Subject: Fwd: I LIKE This Guy!!!!
>
>
> Spoken like a TRUE American!
> Rep. Allen West (R-Fla.), a former Army lieutenant colonel,
> sends THE WEEKLY STANDARD an email commenting on the
> Marines' video <http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/silence-republican-candidates_616690.html>
> , and has given us permission to publish it.
>
> allenwest <http://www.weeklystandard.com/sites/all/files/imagecache/teaser-large/images/teasers/allenwest.jpg>
>
>
>
> I have sat back and assessed the incident with the video
> of our Marines urinating on Taliban corpses. I do not recall
> any self-righteous indignation when our Delta snipers
> Shugart and Gordon had their bodies dragged through
> Mogadishu. Neither do I recall media outrage and
> condemnation of our Blackwater security contractors being
> killed, their bodies burned, and hung from a bridge in
> Fallujah.
>
> All these over-emotional pundits and armchair
> quarterbacks need to chill. Does anyone remember the two
> Soldiers from the 101st Airborne Division who were beheaded
> and gutted in Iraq?
>
> The Marines were wrong. Give them a maximum punishment
> under field grade level Article 15 (non-judicial
> punishment), place a General Officer level letter of
> reprimand in their personnel file, and have them in full
> dress uniform stand before their Battalion, each personally
> apologize to God, Country, and Corps videotaped and conclude
> by singing the full US Marine Corps Hymn without a
> teleprompter.
>
> As for everyone else, unless you have been shot at by
> the Taliban, shut your mouth, war is hell.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> "Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway."
>
> -John Wayne
>
>
> The secret of a good sermon is to have a good beginning and
> a good ending; and to have the two as close together as
> possible
> - George Burns
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Email Forum -
> FAQ,
> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
> List Contribution Web Site -
> -Matt
> Dralle, List Admin.
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gene Rambo <generambo(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | I LIKE This Guy!!!! |
lets keep the politics off this list!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Gene
> Date: Sat=2C 14 Jan 2012 11:22:28 -0800
> From: airlion(at)bellsouth.net
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: I LIKE This Guy!!!!
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>
>
> I like this guy too. Where are all the good candidates out there that wil
l say OKKKKKKKKK INSTEAD of condemning them to Hell. SEMPER FI. GARDINER
>
> --- On Sat=2C 1/14/12=2C Stu Brown wrote:
>
> > From: Stu Brown <stu_brown(at)verizon.net>
> > Subject: Pietenpol-List: I LIKE This Guy!!!!
> > To:
> > Date: Saturday=2C January 14=2C 2012=2C 1:31 PM
> > --> Pietenpol-List message posted
> > by: Stu Brown
> >
> >
> > Subject: Fwd: I LIKE This Guy!!!!
> >
> >
> > Spoken like a TRUE American!
> > Rep. Allen West (R-Fla.)=2C a former Army lieutenant colonel=2C
> > sends THE WEEKLY STANDARD an email commenting on the
> > Marines' video <http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/silence-republican-
candidates_616690.html>
> > =2C and has given us permission to publish it.
> >
> > allenwest <http://www.weeklystandard.com/sites/all/files/imagecache/te
aser-large/images/teasers/allenwest.jpg>
> >
> >
> >
> > =93I have sat back and assessed the incident with the video
> > of our Marines urinating on Taliban corpses. I do not recall
> > any self-righteous indignation when our Delta snipers
> > Shugart and Gordon had their bodies dragged through
> > Mogadishu. Neither do I recall media outrage and
> > condemnation of our Blackwater security contractors being
> > killed=2C their bodies burned=2C and hung from a bridge in
> > Fallujah.
> >
> > =93All these over-emotional pundits and armchair
> > quarterbacks need to chill. Does anyone remember the two
> > Soldiers from the 101st Airborne Division who were beheaded
> > and gutted in Iraq?
> >
> > =93The Marines were wrong. Give them a maximum punishment
> > under field grade level Article 15 (non-judicial
> > punishment)=2C place a General Officer level letter of
> > reprimand in their personnel file=2C and have them in full
> > dress uniform stand before their Battalion=2C each personally
> > apologize to God=2C Country=2C and Corps videotaped and conclude
> > by singing the full US Marine Corps Hymn without a
> > teleprompter.
> >
> > =93As for everyone else=2C unless you have been shot at by
> > the Taliban=2C shut your mouth=2C war is hell.=94
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway."
> >
> > -John Wayne
> >
> >
> > The secret of a good sermon is to have a good beginning and
> > a good ending=3B and to have the two as close together as
> > possible
> > - George Burns
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Email Forum -
> > FAQ=2C
> > - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
> > List Contribution Web Site -
> > -Matt
> > Dralle=2C List Admin.
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB" <steven.d.dortch(at)us.army.mil> |
Michael, My extensive research (a google search) says that the -90 makes only 95
HP but has better torque down low, right where a slow and low plane needs it.
No dif in weight unless you get one of the new O-200s.
Blue Skies,
Steve D
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Date: Saturday, January 14, 2012 13:28
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: C-90
> Thanks Douwe for the good ideas.
>
> One reason I was more interested in the -90 then the-200 was
> because I read someplace that the -90 was lighter. (don't recall
> where.) I am VERY interested in the conversion process you talk
> about and wonder if it changes the weight closer to the -90? Can
> you point me in the direction to find these overhaul/conversion
> procedures? Maybe I should search for an O-200 and convert?
>
> Definitely keep me abreast of your engine work, first run and
> subsequent findings...good or bad.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Michael Perez
> Karetaker Aero
> www.karetakeraero.com
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
Low - end torque...reminds of when I built my Pontiac engine... anyhoo, I w
ill be looking more closely into this -200/90 conversion and the difference
s/similarities between the two.
-
Any other intell. on the matter would be greatly appreciated.
Michael Perez
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
Hey, Gardiner - A quick question=85I=92m thinking about introducing an
event
into this year=92s West Coast Piet Gathering. You, being an individual
of
incredible background, no doubt with knowledge of bombing
tactics=85range,
windage and such=85may best know how to answer this=85.
Let=92s say our event is to dump a liquid from a Piet, sorta like flour
bombing, on to a target. Doesn=92t matter what the liquid is, but
let=92s say
it=92s watery and=85yellow=85color doesn=92t matter. Let=92s say the
target is a row
of unmoving objects, 5 =BD to 6=92 long, each one about 16=94 dia, lined
up in a
row, like wood. The object, obviously, is to hit the target with as much
of
liquid as possible. What do you think would be the best approach ground
speed.
Again, I have no experience in military aviation, but have undying
respect
for those who do=85
Gary Boothe
NX308MB
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gene
Rambo
Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2012 11:30 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: I LIKE This Guy!!!!
lets keep the politics off this list!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Gene
> Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2012 11:22:28 -0800
> From: airlion(at)bellsouth.net
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: I LIKE This Guy!!!!
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>
>
> I like this guy too. Where are all the good candidates out there that
will
say OKKKKKKKKK INSTEAD of condemning them to Hell. SEMPER FI. GARDINER
>
> --- On Sat, 1/14/12, Stu Brown wrote:
>
> > From: Stu Brown <stu_brown(at)verizon.net>
> > Subject: Pietenpol-List: I LIKE This Guy!!!!
> > To:
> > Date: Saturday, January 14, 2012, 1:31 PM
> > --> Pietenpol-List message posted
> > by: Stu Brown
> >
> >
> > Subject: Fwd: I LIKE This Guy!!!!
> >
> >
> > Spoken like a TRUE American!
> > Rep. Allen West (R-Fla.), a former Army lieutenant colonel,
> > sends THE WEEKLY STANDARD an email commenting on the
> > Marines' video
<http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/silence-republican-candidates_616690
.ht
ml>
> > , and has given us permission to publish it.
> >
> > allenwest
<http://www.weeklystandard.com/sites/all/files/imagecache/teaser-large/im
age
s/teasers/allenwest.jpg>
> >
> >
> >
> > =93I have sat back and assessed the incident with the video
> > of our Marines urinating on Taliban corpses. I do not recall
> > any self-righteous indignation when our Delta snipers
> > Shugart and Gordon had their bodies dragged through
> > Mogadishu. Neither do I recall media outrage and
> > condemnation of our Blackwater security contractors being
> > killed, their bodies burned, and hung from a bridge in
> > Fallujah.
> >
> > =93All these over-emotional pundits and armchair
> > quarterbacks need to chill. Does anyone remember the two
> > Soldiers from the 101st Airborne Division who were beheaded
> > and gutted in Iraq?
> >
> > =93The Marines were wrong. Give them a maximum punishment
> > under field grade level Article 15 (non-judicial
> > punishment), place a General Officer level letter of
> > reprimand in their personnel file, and have them in full
> > dress uniform stand before their Battalion, each personally
> > apologize to God, Country, and Corps videotaped and conclude
> > by singing the full US Marine Corps Hymn without a
> > teleprompter.
> >
> > =93As for everyone else, unless you have been shot at by
> > the Taliban, shut your mouth, war is hell.=94
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway."
> >
> > -John Wayne
> >
> >
> > The secret of a good sermon is to have a good beginning and
> > a good ending; and to have the two as close together as
> > possible
> > - George Burns
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Email Forum -
> > FAQ,
> > - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
> > List Contribution Web Site -
> > -Matt
> > Dralle, List Admin.
> >
> >
> >
> >
>=============
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | what Piets sell for |
Maybe I tell myself this to justify the expense, but I consider the $15,000
that I paid for Scout to be completely worth it. I bought a complete, flying,
registered, time-flown-off aircraft that will honestly fly 2 people on 4 gallons
per hour of avgas and cost only a few hundred dollars a year in maintenance
and upkeep (not including hangar). It is simple, reliable, and enjoyable.
I would say the only thing better than buying a "new" Piet for $15K is buying
one for less than that.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
Flying Squirrel N2069Z "Rocket"
Medford, OR
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | AMsafetyC(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | off topic So Cali Pieters Invite to a walk in Anheim convention |
center
If you love good stuff you need to make it to the convention center to
sample the best Gelato and spreads you have ever tasted.
Gelato DI Babbo
Check me out if you are heading out to the
show._http://www.expowest.com/ew12/Public/Booth.aspx?BoothID=1089818_
(http://www.expowest.com/ew12/Public/Booth.aspx?BoothID=1089818)
(http://www.expowest.com/ew12/Public/Booth.aspx?BoothID=1089818)
_Natural Products Expo West 2012: Natural Products Expo West 2012_
(http://www.expowest.com/ew12/Public/Booth.aspx?BoothID=1089818)
_www.expowest.com_ (http://www.expowest.com/)
Brands: Gelato Di Babbo/Zanni Foods Inc Pistachio Di Bronte, Spreads and
Pesto
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | 2012 Ohio Piet boxing tournement and fly-in |
Lets all get togeather and duke out this disagreement, at 1197msl.- We wi
ll glue on handlebar mushtaches (if we can't grow one), and have a bare knu
ckle boxing match to settle this.- When we are done spitting out teeth, w
e will soothe our bleeding gums with cold beer, and who ever still has ther
e teeth can chew up the loosers brat and feed him like a mama bird.- We c
an even hire a bookie to take bets on the winner (and donate it to the list
).- Next year we can fight over which engine is best, then the following
year which landing gear is best................
-
Laughing my butt off,
Shad
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol list |
| From: | "Kenneth M. Heide" <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com> |
Enough said!
This USMC patriot is moving on.
Enjoy your builds and God bless us all!
Kenneth M. Heide
Sent from my iPhone
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark Stanley" <mmrally(at)nifty.com> |
| Subject: | Something more soothing........ |
Slow progress.......
Mark S
Japan
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | We need a change of tone |
| From: | helspersew(at)aol.com |
I was going through my photos and videos this morning. I shared this a few
years back, but I thought it might go a long way to get us back on track, a
nd maybe give some encouragement. This is from my 1st engine start.
http://s564.photobucket.com/albums/ss83/dhelsper/?action=view¤t=1
ststart-upmodelAwithcarvedprop.mp4&evt=user_media_share
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | airlion <airlion(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Water bombing |
Hi Gary, I can't advise you on how to water bomb as I never did it. Most of
my practice was for dive bombing and you don't want to do that in a piet.
Also we did a lot of the loft maneuver in which you fly low and fast as you
can, then pull up in a 4G pull up, then release the big bomb at a certain
angle- then keep pulling up and over to do an immelman to get back on the d
eck to get the hell out of there. We always considered that a suicide missi
on because the Skyraider was not fast enough to out run the blast effect. I
have seen afew flour bag drops at fly ins and am not too impressed. Also I
have seen balloon chasing and to me that is just an accident waiting to ha
ppen. Cheers, Gardiner
--- On Sat, 1/14/12, Gary Boothe wrote:
From: Gary Boothe <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Water bombing
Date: Saturday, January 14, 2012, 6:44 PM
Hey, Gardiner -=C2- A quick questionI=99m thinking about i
ntroducing an event into this year=99s West Coast Piet Gathering. You
, being an individual of incredible background, no doubt with knowledge of
bombing tacticsrange, windage and suchmay best know how t
o answer this. =C2-Let=99s say our event is to dump a liqu
id from a Piet, sorta like flour bombing, on to a target. Doesn=99t m
atter what the liquid is, but let=99s say it=99s watery and
yellowcolor doesn=99t matter. Let=99s say the ta
rget is a row of unmoving objects, 5 =C2=BD to 6=99 long, each one ab
out 16=9D dia, lined up in a row, like wood. The object, obviously, i
s to hit the target with as much of liquid as possible. What do you think w
ould be the best approach ground speed. =C2-Again, I have no experience i
n military aviation, but have undying respect for those who do =C2
-Gary BootheNX308MB =C2-From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gene Rambo
Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2012 11:30 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: I LIKE This Guy!!!! =C2-lets keep the politi
cs off this list!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
=C2-
Gene
=C2-> Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2012 11:22:28 -0800
> From: airlion(at)bellsouth.net
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: I LIKE This Guy!!!!
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>
>
> I like this guy too. Where are all the good candidates out there that wil
l say OKKKKKKKKK INSTEAD of condemning them to Hell. SEMPER FI. GARDINER
>
> --- On Sat, 1/14/12, Stu Brown wrote:
>
> > From: Stu Brown <stu_brown(at)verizon.net>
> > Subject: Pietenpol-List: I LIKE This Guy!!!!
> > To:
> > Date: Saturday, January 14, 2012, 1:31 PM
> > --> Pietenpol-List message posted
> > by: Stu Brown
> >
> >
> > Subject: Fwd: I LIKE This Guy!!!!
> >
> >
> > Spoken like a TRUE American!
> > Rep. Allen West (R-Fla.), a former Army lieutenant colonel,
> > sends THE WEEKLY STANDARD an email commenting on the
> > Marines' video <http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/silence-republican-
candidates_616690.html>
> > , and has given us permission to publish it.
> >
> > allenwest <http://www.weeklystandard.com/sites/all/files/imagecache/tea
ser-large/images/teasers/allenwest.jpg>
> >
> >
> >
> > =9CI have sat back and assessed the incident with the video
> > of our Marines urinating on Taliban corpses. I do not recall
> > any self-righteous indignation when our Delta snipers
> > Shugart and Gordon had their bodies dragged through
> > Mogadishu. Neither do I recall media outrage and
> > condemnation of our Blackwater security contractors being
> > killed, their bodies burned, and hung from a bridge in
> > Fallujah.
> >
> > =9CAll these over-emotional pundits and armchair
> > quarterbacks need to chill. Does anyone remember the two
> > Soldiers from the 101st Airborne Division who were beheaded
> > and gutted in Iraq?
> >
> > =9CThe Marines were wrong. Give them a maximum punishment
> > under field grade level Article 15 (non-judicial
> > punishment), place a General Officer level letter of
> > reprimand in their personnel file, and have them in full
> > dress uniform stand before their Battalion, each personally
> > apologize to God, Country, and Corps videotaped and conclude
> > by singing the full US Marine Corps Hymn without a
> > teleprompter.
> >
> > =9CAs for everyone else, unless you have been shot at by
> > the Taliban, shut your mouth, war is hell.=9D
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway."
> >
> > -John Wayne
> >
> >
> > The secret of a good sermon is to have a good beginning and
> > a good ending; and to have the two as close together as
> > possible
> > - George Burns
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Email Forum -
> > FAQ,
> > =C2-=C2-=C2-- MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
> > List Contribution Web Site -
> > =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- -Matt
> > Dralle, List Admin.
> >
> >
> >
> >
>=============
>
>
> =C2- =C2-http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhttp://for
ums.matronics.comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution =C2-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "C N Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> |
| Subject: | Re: We need a change of tone |
Thanks, Dan. I agree! Let's get back to Pietenpol Aircampers/Scouts.
Let's all try to be peacemakers. C
----- Original Message -----
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2012 8:19 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: We need a change of tone
I was going through my photos and videos this morning. I shared this a
few years back, but I thought it might go a long way to get us back on
track, and maybe give some encouragement. This is from my 1st engine
start.
http://s564.photobucket.com/albums/ss83/dhelsper/?action=view¤t=
1ststart-upmodelAwithcarvedprop.mp4&evt=user_media_share
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: We need a change of tone |
| From: | Amsafetyc <amsafetyc(at)aol.com> |
Thanks Dan, we needed that! A day in the life or the black and yellow German
comes to life. Either way thanks for sharing the reminder of why we are all
here
John
Sent from my iPhone
On Jan 15, 2012, at 8:19 AM, helspersew(at)aol.com wrote:
> I was going through my photos and videos this morning. I shared this a few
years back, but I thought it might go a long way to get us back on track, a
nd maybe give some encouragement. This is from my 1st engine start.
>
> http://s564.photobucket.com/albums/ss83/dhelsper/?action=view¤t=
1ststart-upmodelAwithcarvedprop.mp4&evt=user_media_share
>
> Dan Helsper
> Puryear, TN
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Something more soothing........ |
Looking good, Mark!
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Stanley
Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2012 7:00 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Something more soothing........
Slow progress.......
Mark S
Japan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | O-200-C-90 and exhaust/heat muffs |
Hey Michael,
They weigh the same, as they are basically the same engine, unless you get
the newest O-200 (as has been stated).
The benefit of the C-90 over the O-200 is that it produces more torque at a
slower speed, allowing for a larger prop, which performs better on a draggy
airframe like this one. The O-200 was designed to spin a much smaller prop,
much faster for slicker airframes, and while it certainly will fly a Piet,
just not as nicely as a larger prop (this from guys who have flown in both,
not heresay).
The guy who built my engine up is a great guy who was recommended by Jack
Textor and does great work. He has all the parts for a C-90 and a couple
O-200's he could modify, but not sure if you wanted to do the work yourself.
You can contact me offline and I'll give you his email if you want to chat
with him.
I wanted the weight up front so left the starter on, a everything I could
leave on to approximate the weight of the Ford which balanced perfectly. I
did not want to stick the nose out there!
I'll try to post some pics of the exhaust/muffler/heat muff set up. One
side is finished, but I'll take shots while I put the other side together.
Basically, it looks like a WWI SE5 exhaust. Two downtubes from the
cylinders turn back and will run back alongside the fuselage. There is a
24", 4" diameter muffler just under the cylinders. From the outside it
looks like one piece, but the back is a muffler with some baffles inside and
the front is a heat shroud. Right side does the carb, left side does
cockpit heat (for my wife's toes). Gonna wrap them in exhaust wrap to keep
the shroud heat hot, and for a cool look.
The side pipes will run joint these units through a ball joint and will run
back a bit past the pilots' cockpit.
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Time for some of us to refocus? |
Maybe it's time for us to all take a deep breath and just relax. And quit taking
ourselves so seriously. And refocus.
These personal/political discussions will not end until we just LET them end.
They can go on and on and on and on and on and...... There will never ever be
a comment made on this list that we won't be able to express a personal opinion
about...but does that mean we SHOULD?
Hey, next time we feel like "explaining" our position or "clarifying" a point
or "expressing" our view....hold off a bit on hitting the "send" button. If it's
something (NON personal) that moves everyone's homebuilding progress forward,
it will move it forward tomorrow. So wait and hit the send button tomorrow
if it really does need to be shared. Easing up on that "trigger" might give
us some time to rethink our decision to "share" our thoughts with everyone.
I can't EVEN tell you how many times I've typed a message and "read through it
again" and asked myself if it's something that I would say while standing on one
of the picnic tables under the pavilion at Brodhead. With all of these wonderful
people gathered for the PIETENPOL flyin.....listening to ME. Then I cool
off and hit the delete button. More than once I've had to remind myself that
no one cares about my personal feelings. Not really. And that my comments
just didn't help anyone but my arrogant attitude/hurt feelings/etc. And it didn't
even help that. So I refocus and hit the delete key (thank goodness!!).....
(Which is probably EXACTLY what I'll wish I had done with THIS message!)
:-)
Ok, so quite a few of us have agreed and DIS-agreed with a lot of the recent personal
comments. And quite a few of us have just ignored it. But we ALL agree
that the wonderful Pietenpol design is what keeps us here. Not all this personal
stuff.
Let's refocus and think about why we're all here.... And if, in our heart, our
personal answer includes phrases like "set things straight"...."expose someone's
stupid comments"....."show what I know"...."poke fun at"...."I'm just tired
of that idiot's stupid comments"....."set them straight"....hey, please find
another forum. Not just because it never really has had a place here but more
importantly, there are actually many other forums out there that are designed
for that very purpose. Those forums will help fill your needs a lot better
than here.
Fact is, there are some people on this list I simply do NOT connect with (to put
it "politely"). And there are some people on this list that I dearly love and
that have helped me work toward becoming a better person. But I would NOT
trade any ONE of the characters on this list for 10 from any other special interest
list. I don't want to see ANYONE leave our group. But some of us have
a lower tolerance for offensive content and will leave. Or worse, stop contributing.
That does NOT have to happen.
The greatness of this incredible resource and wonderful Pietenpol community should
NEVER EVER have anything to do with personal feelings.
I know I don't have any magic answers, would not be so presumptuous to think that
I do. Or, as I stated above, that my approach to human interaction might work
for anyone else. My approach usually doesn't even work for me. But I'm working
on it. And some of these ideas HAVE worked for me.
These are tough times. Speaking from my heart, this list has been a wonderful
little "happy place" away from the stresses/dissapointments of life. BECAUSE
of the Pietenpol related discussions....NOTHING else.
What do you say we just get back to building.....
Jim in Pryor
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Maybe it's time.... |
Maybe it's time for us to all take a deep breath and just relax. And quit taking
ourselves so seriously. And refocus.
These personal/political discussions will not end until we just LET them end.
They can go on and on and on and on and on and...... There will never ever be
a comment made on this list that we won't be able to express a personal opinion
about...but does that mean we SHOULD?
Hey, next time we feel like "explaining" our position or "clarifying" a point
or "expressing" our view....hold off a bit on hitting the "send" button. If it's
something (NON personal) that moves everyone's homebuilding progress forward,
it will move it forward tomorrow. So wait and hit the send button tomorrow
if it really does need to be shared. Easing up on that "trigger" might give
us some time to rethink our decision to "share" our thoughts with everyone.
I can't EVEN tell you how many times I've typed a message and "read through it
again" and asked myself if it's something that I would say while standing on one
of the picnic tables under the pavilion at Brodhead. With all of these wonderful
people gathered for the PIETENPOL flyin.....listening to ME. Then I cool
off and hit the delete button. More than once I've had to remind myself that
no one cares about my personal feelings. Not really. And that my comments
just didn't help anyone but my arrogant attitude/hurt feelings/etc. And it didn't
even help that. So I refocus and hit the delete key (thank goodness!!).....
(Which is probably EXACTLY what I'll wish I had done with THIS message!)
:-)
Ok, so quite a few of us have agreed and DIS-agreed with a lot of the recent personal
comments. And quite a few of us have just ignored it. But we ALL agree
that the wonderful Pietenpol design is what keeps us here. Not all this personal
stuff.
Let's refocus and think about why we're all here.... And if, in our heart, our
personal answer includes phrases like "set things straight"...."expose someone's
stupid comments"....."show what I know"...."poke fun at"...."I'm just tired
of that idiot's stupid comments"....."set them straight"....hey, please find
another forum. Not just because it never really has had a place here but more
importantly, there are actually many other forums out there that are designed
for that very purpose. Those forums will help fill your needs a lot better
than here.
Fact is, there are some people on this list I simply do NOT connect with (to put
it "politely"). And there are some people on this list that I dearly love and
that have helped me work toward becoming a better person. But I would NOT
trade any ONE of the characters on this list for 10 from any other special interest
list. I don't want to see ANYONE leave our group. But some of us have
a lower tolerance for offensive content and will leave. Or worse, stop contributing.
That does NOT have to happen.
The greatness of this incredible resource and wonderful Pietenpol community should
NEVER EVER have anything to do with personal feelings.
I know I don't have any magic answers, would not be so presumptuous to think that
I do. Or, as I stated above, that my approach to human interaction might work
for anyone else. My approach usually doesn't even work for me. But I'm working
on it. And some of these ideas HAVE worked for me.
These are tough times. Speaking from my heart, this list has been a wonderful
little "happy place" away from the stresses/dissapointments of life. BECAUSE
of the Pietenpol related discussions....NOTHING else.
What do you say we just get back to building.....
Jim in Pryor
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Time for some of us to refocus? |
And maybe one of us (ME!) needs to focus on learning how to use email and NOT send
messages twice!!!
sorry....
-----Original Message-----
>From: Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
>Sent: Jan 15, 2012 9:48 AM
>To: Pietenpol List
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Time for some of us to refocus?
>
>
>Maybe it's time for us to all take a deep breath and just relax. And quit taking
ourselves so seriously. And refocus.
>
>These personal/political discussions will not end until we just LET them end.
They can go on and on and on and on and on and...... There will never ever be
a comment made on this list that we won't be able to express a personal opinion
about...but does that mean we SHOULD?
>
>Hey, next time we feel like "explaining" our position or "clarifying" a point
or "expressing" our view....hold off a bit on hitting the "send" button. If
it's something (NON personal) that moves everyone's homebuilding progress forward,
it will move it forward tomorrow. So wait and hit the send button tomorrow
if it really does need to be shared. Easing up on that "trigger" might give
us some time to rethink our decision to "share" our thoughts with everyone.
>
>I can't EVEN tell you how many times I've typed a message and "read through it
again" and asked myself if it's something that I would say while standing on
one of the picnic tables under the pavilion at Brodhead. With all of these wonderful
people gathered for the PIETENPOL flyin.....listening to ME. Then I cool
off and hit the delete button. More than once I've had to remind myself that
no one cares about my personal feelings. Not really. And that my comments
just didn't help anyone but my arrogant attitude/hurt feelings/etc. And it
didn't even help that. So I refocus and hit the delete key (thank goodness!!).....
(Which is probably EXACTLY what I'll wish I had done with THIS message!)
:-)
>
>Ok, so quite a few of us have agreed and DIS-agreed with a lot of the recent personal
comments. And quite a few of us have just ignored it. But we ALL agree
that the wonderful Pietenpol design is what keeps us here. Not all this personal
stuff.
>
>Let's refocus and think about why we're all here.... And if, in our heart, our
personal answer includes phrases like "set things straight"...."expose someone's
stupid comments"....."show what I know"...."poke fun at"...."I'm just tired
of that idiot's stupid comments"....."set them straight"....hey, please find
another forum. Not just because it never really has had a place here but more
importantly, there are actually many other forums out there that are designed
for that very purpose. Those forums will help fill your needs a lot better
than here.
>
>Fact is, there are some people on this list I simply do NOT connect with (to put
it "politely"). And there are some people on this list that I dearly love
and that have helped me work toward becoming a better person. But I would NOT
trade any ONE of the characters on this list for 10 from any other special interest
list. I don't want to see ANYONE leave our group. But some of us have
a lower tolerance for offensive content and will leave. Or worse, stop contributing.
That does NOT have to happen.
>
>The greatness of this incredible resource and wonderful Pietenpol community should
NEVER EVER have anything to do with personal feelings.
>
>I know I don't have any magic answers, would not be so presumptuous to think that
I do. Or, as I stated above, that my approach to human interaction might
work for anyone else. My approach usually doesn't even work for me. But I'm
working on it. And some of these ideas HAVE worked for me.
>
>These are tough times. Speaking from my heart, this list has been a wonderful
little "happy place" away from the stresses/dissapointments of life. BECAUSE
of the Pietenpol related discussions....NOTHING else.
>
>What do you say we just get back to building.....
>
>Jim in Pryor
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Time for some of us to refocus? |
| From: | Bryan Reed <reed44(at)gmail.com> |
Actually Jim I think it needed to be said twice.
Take care,
Bryan
On Sun, Jan 15, 2012 at 8:57 AM, Jim Markle wrote:
> jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
>
> And maybe one of us (ME!) needs to focus on learning how to use email and
> NOT send messages twice!!!
>
> sorry....
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> >From: Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
> >Sent: Jan 15, 2012 9:48 AM
> >To: Pietenpol List
> >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Time for some of us to refocus?
> >
> jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
> >
> >Maybe it's time for us to all take a deep breath and just relax. And
> quit taking ourselves so seriously. And refocus.
> >
> >These personal/political discussions will not end until we just LET them
> end. They can go on and on and on and on and on and...... There will
> never ever be a comment made on this list that we won't be able to express
> a personal opinion about...but does that mean we SHOULD?
> >
> >Hey, next time we feel like "explaining" our position or "clarifying" a
> point or "expressing" our view....hold off a bit on hitting the "send"
> button. If it's something (NON personal) that moves everyone's
> homebuilding progress forward, it will move it forward tomorrow. So wait
> and hit the send button tomorrow if it really does need to be shared.
> Easing up on that "trigger" might give us some time to rethink our
> decision to "share" our thoughts with everyone.
> >
> >I can't EVEN tell you how many times I've typed a message and "read
> through it again" and asked myself if it's something that I would say while
> standing on one of the picnic tables under the pavilion at Brodhead. With
> all of these wonderful people gathered for the PIETENPOL
> flyin.....listening to ME. Then I cool off and hit the delete button.
> More than once I've had to remind myself that no one cares about my
> personal feelings. Not really. And that my comments just didn't help
> anyone but my arrogant attitude/hurt feelings/etc. And it didn't even help
> that. So I refocus and hit the delete key (thank goodness!!)..... (Which
> is probably EXACTLY what I'll wish I had done with THIS message!) :-)
> >
> >Ok, so quite a few of us have agreed and DIS-agreed with a lot of the
> recent personal comments. And quite a few of us have just ignored it. But
> we ALL agree that the wonderful Pietenpol design is what keeps us here. Not
> all this personal stuff.
> >
> >Let's refocus and think about why we're all here.... And if, in our
> heart, our personal answer includes phrases like "set things
> straight"...."expose someone's stupid comments"....."show what I
> know"...."poke fun at"...."I'm just tired of that idiot's stupid
> comments"....."set them straight"....hey, please find another forum. Not
> just because it never really has had a place here but more importantly,
> there are actually many other forums out there that are designed for that
> very purpose. Those forums will help fill your needs a lot better than
> here.
> >
> >Fact is, there are some people on this list I simply do NOT connect with
> (to put it "politely"). And there are some people on this list that I
> dearly love and that have helped me work toward becoming a better person.
> But I would NOT trade any ONE of the characters on this list for 10 from
> any other special interest list. I don't want to see ANYONE leave our
> group. But some of us have a lower tolerance for offensive content and
> will leave. Or worse, stop contributing. That does NOT have to happen.
> >
> >The greatness of this incredible resource and wonderful Pietenpol
> community should NEVER EVER have anything to do with personal feelings.
> >
> >I know I don't have any magic answers, would not be so presumptuous to
> think that I do. Or, as I stated above, that my approach to human
> interaction might work for anyone else. My approach usually doesn't even
> work for me. But I'm working on it. And some of these ideas HAVE worked
> for me.
> >
> >These are tough times. Speaking from my heart, this list has been a
> wonderful little "happy place" away from the stresses/dissapointments of
> life. BECAUSE of the Pietenpol related discussions....NOTHING else.
> >
> >What do you say we just get back to building.....
> >
> >Jim in Pryor
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "C N Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Maybe it's time.... |
Jim, that is exactly what I meant when I asked everyone to be "peace
makers." I started on the list after I was well along with my build. Had I
known about it before I started I would probably have done some things
differently and maybe a little better. But, I have learned a lot which will
help me in my further construction and I thank you all for it. Let's just
have fun and learn a bunch of stuff. Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2012 10:47 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Maybe it's time....
>
>
> Maybe it's time for us to all take a deep breath and just relax. And quit
> taking ourselves so seriously. And refocus.
>
> These personal/political discussions will not end until we just LET them
> end. They can go on and on and on and on and on and...... There will
> never ever be a comment made on this list that we won't be able to express
> a personal opinion about...but does that mean we SHOULD?
>
> Hey, next time we feel like "explaining" our position or "clarifying" a
> point or "expressing" our view....hold off a bit on hitting the "send"
> button. If it's something (NON personal) that moves everyone's
> homebuilding progress forward, it will move it forward tomorrow. So wait
> and hit the send button tomorrow if it really does need to be shared.
> Easing up on that "trigger" might give us some time to rethink our
> decision to "share" our thoughts with everyone.
>
> I can't EVEN tell you how many times I've typed a message and "read
> through it again" and asked myself if it's something that I would say
> while standing on one of the picnic tables under the pavilion at Brodhead.
> With all of these wonderful people gathered for the PIETENPOL
> flyin.....listening to ME. Then I cool off and hit the delete button.
> More than once I've had to remind myself that no one cares about my
> personal feelings. Not really. And that my comments just didn't help
> anyone but my arrogant attitude/hurt feelings/etc. And it didn't even
> help that. So I refocus and hit the delete key (thank goodness!!).....
> (Which is probably EXACTLY what I'll wish I had done with THIS message!)
> :-)
>
> Ok, so quite a few of us have agreed and DIS-agreed with a lot of the
> recent personal comments. And quite a few of us have just ignored it.
> But we ALL agree that the wonderful Pietenpol design is what keeps us
> here. Not all this personal stuff.
>
> Let's refocus and think about why we're all here.... And if, in our
> heart, our personal answer includes phrases like "set things
> straight"...."expose someone's stupid comments"....."show what I
> know"...."poke fun at"...."I'm just tired of that idiot's stupid
> comments"....."set them straight"....hey, please find another forum. Not
> just because it never really has had a place here but more importantly,
> there are actually many other forums out there that are designed for that
> very purpose. Those forums will help fill your needs a lot better than
> here.
>
> Fact is, there are some people on this list I simply do NOT connect with
> (to put it "politely"). And there are some people on this list that I
> dearly love and that have helped me work toward becoming a better person.
> But I would NOT trade any ONE of the characters on this list for 10 from
> any other special interest list. I don't want to see ANYONE leave our
> group. But some of us have a lower tolerance for offensive content and
> will leave. Or worse, stop contributing. That does NOT have to happen.
>
> The greatness of this incredible resource and wonderful Pietenpol
> community should NEVER EVER have anything to do with personal feelings.
>
> I know I don't have any magic answers, would not be so presumptuous to
> think that I do. Or, as I stated above, that my approach to human
> interaction might work for anyone else. My approach usually doesn't even
> work for me. But I'm working on it. And some of these ideas HAVE worked
> for me.
>
> These are tough times. Speaking from my heart, this list has been a
> wonderful little "happy place" away from the stresses/dissapointments of
> life. BECAUSE of the Pietenpol related discussions....NOTHING else.
>
> What do you say we just get back to building.....
>
> Jim in Pryor
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "C N Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> |
| Subject: | Re: My Piet is out of long term storage |
Michael, I've never flown an airplane without good, substantial,
Hydraulic brakes that could stop me on a dime if I ever really needed
it. I guess my start in flying in the Navy got this idea firmly
implanted in my mind. My Piet will have toe-operated hydraulic brakes
because that's what I have always been used to and I'm too old to learn
new tricks. C
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Perez
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2012 2:03 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: My Piet is out of long term storage
Well John, I can tell you how I handled mine...you'll need to
decide if it is helpful or not.
I don't know of anyone building wire wheel hubs. If you have
access to the tools, and the drive to learn, you can fabricate your own
to your exact needs. (Such as the brake mounting flanges you describe.)
I made my own and it was not difficult at all.
Afraid I can't help much in the jigging of the legs department.
I have a tile floor in my shop so I used those 1' squares as a guide
along with some masking tape to lay out my gear. I had the fuselage set
right side up, ( some build with the fuselage up side down) at the deck
angle I wanted with the tail wheel height figured in. Once positioned
over my center line marked on the floor, using plumb bobs, I stuck
masking tape on the grid floor and marked my reference lines and
measurements on those. I made and positioned my ash blocks on the floor
and worked up to the fuselage.
I have no intell. on WW's brake set up, I used simple go kart
band brakes. I plan to only use the brakes to keep from rolling down
hill into the fuel pit or another plane, so I felt a ton of stopping
power was not needed.
If interested, contact me off list and I can provide more
details and photos of what I have.
Good luck.
Michael Perez
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "C N Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> |
| Subject: | Re: photos, sketches |
Mike, could I ask you to contact me off line? I would like to ask you some
questions about your fuel tank sketched in the attached. Thanks, Chuck
cncampbell(at)windstream.net
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC AEROSPACE CORP]"
Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2012 1:23 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: photos, sketches
> AEROSPACE CORP]"
>
> Chris Tracy has a fantastic Piet photo web site here:
> http://www.westcoastpiet.com/
>
> Some of my sketches are here:
> http://www.westcoastpiet.com/images/Mike%20Cuy%20A-65%20Piet/mike_cuy_3.htm
>
> Mike C.
>
> PS- Gene R. is correct about my non-routed 1/2" spruce web-based spar
> idea--more expensive than routing a 1" stock for spars.
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
Unless you are an artist, like Douwe or Clif or some others on this
list=85.if
you are like me, and can muddle through the hacking of wood, gluing,
welding, covering=85.but you just can=92t seem to get that logo idea,
that has
been floating around in your dreams for the past 4 years, on to
paper=85.if
you are tempted to just copy Dan Helsper, but his friendship means more
to
you than possessing his cool logo=85.if you are hesitant to just go
through
the yellow pages and pick out a local graphics designer=85.maybe=85.
You will be interested in working with a friend of mine; a young man
(not so
young, now) who once dated my daughter (Why? WHY, OH WHY=85.What
happened to
the custom of picking out our daughter=92s spouse?); an individual with
integrity and respect. He contacted me on FB, introducing his graphics
design business. We communicated back and forth about a few of my
ideas=85he
did his own background and intel=85and 1 =BD weeks later came back with
7 logo
ideas, all original, any of which I would be happy with! We are doing
some
narrowing down, and a few adjustments, but I could not be more
impressed. If
you are in need of this kind of help, and would like to work with
someone
with my recommendation, contact me off list.
Gary Boothe
NX308MB
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Something more soothing........ |
| From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
Very nice work Mark!
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=363865#363865
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: O-200-C-90 and exhaust/heat muffs |
Thank you sir! I'll contact you off list...
Michael Perez
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lyle Fast <lylefast(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | O-200-C-90 and exhaust/heat muffs |
Have had this mocked up for about a month=2C SE5 was also my inspiration=2C
the book I read said pilots loved the long pipes. No muffler just a stainl
ess flexible exhaust joint.
Lyle
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "C N Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> |
| Subject: | Re: O-200-C-90 and exhaust/heat muffs |
How hot does that get and how far back does it get hot? If it gets hot
TOO far back, I would surely scald myself. C
----- Original Message -----
From: Lyle Fast
To: scott liefield
Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2012 1:11 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: O-200-C-90 and exhaust/heat muffs
Have had this mocked up for about a month, SE5 was also my
inspiration, the book I read said pilots loved the long pipes. No
muffler just a stainless flexible exhaust joint.
Lyle
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: O-200-C-90 and exhaust/heat muffs
Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2012 10:04:31 -0500
Hey Michael,
They weigh the same, as they are basically the same engine, unless you
get the newest O-200 (as has been stated).
The benefit of the C-90 over the O-200 is that it produces more torque
at a slower speed, allowing for a larger prop, which performs better on
a draggy airframe like this one. The O-200 was designed to spin a much
smaller prop, much faster for slicker airframes, and while it certainly
will fly a Piet, just not as nicely as a larger prop (this from guys who
have flown in both, not heresay).
The guy who built my engine up is a great guy who was recommended by
Jack Textor and does great work. He has all the parts for a C-90 and a
couple O-200=92s he could modify, but not sure if you wanted to do the
work yourself. You can contact me offline and I=92ll give you his email
if you want to chat with him.
I wanted the weight up front so left the starter on, a everything I
could leave on to approximate the weight of the Ford which balanced
perfectly. I did not want to stick the nose out there!
I=92ll try to post some pics of the exhaust/muffler/heat muff set up.
One side is finished, but I=92ll take shots while I put the other side
together. Basically, it looks like a WWI SE5 exhaust. Two downtubes
from the cylinders turn back and will run back alongside the fuselage.
There is a 24=94, 4=94 diameter muffler just under the cylinders. From
the outside it looks like one piece, but the back is a muffler with some
baffles inside and the front is a heat shroud. Right side does the
carb, left side does cockpit heat (for my wife=92s toes). Gonna wrap
them in exhaust wrap to keep the shroud heat hot, and for a cool look.
The side pipes will run joint these units through a ball joint and
will run back a bit past the pilots=92 cockpit.
Douwe
st" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
ttp://forums.matronics.com
=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: O-200-C-90 and exhaust/heat muffs |
| From: | Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com> |
Another consideration, if carrying passengers, you now need to consider
avoiding their scalding themselves as they ingress/egress...if wanting the
long pipe, maybe route it under the fuse.....just a thought...
On Sun, Jan 15, 2012 at 4:24 PM, C N Campbell wr
ote:
> **
> How hot does that get and how far back does it get hot? If it gets hot
> TOO far back, I would surely scald myself. C
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Lyle Fast
> *To:* scott liefield
> *Sent:* Sunday, January 15, 2012 1:11 PM
> *Subject:* RE: Pietenpol-List: O-200-C-90 and exhaust/heat muffs
>
> Have had this mocked up for about a month, SE5 was also my inspiration,
> the book I read said pilots loved the long pipes. No muffler just a
> stainless flexible exhaust joint.
> Lyle
>
> ------------------------------
> From: douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: O-200-C-90 and exhaust/heat muffs
> Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2012 10:04:31 -0500
>
> Hey Michael,
>
>
> They weigh the same, as they are basically the same engine, unless you ge
t
> the newest O-200 (as has been stated).
>
>
> The benefit of the C-90 over the O-200 is that it produces more torque at
> a slower speed, allowing for a larger prop, which performs better on a
> draggy airframe like this one. The O-200 was designed to spin a much
> smaller prop, much faster for slicker airframes, and while it certainly
> will fly a Piet, just not as nicely as a larger prop (this from guys who
> have flown in both, not heresay).
>
>
> The guy who built my engine up is a great guy who was recommended by Jack
> Textor and does great work. He has all the parts for a C-90 and a couple
> O-200=92s he could modify, but not sure if you wanted to do the work
> yourself. You can contact me offline and I=92ll give you his email if yo
u
> want to chat with him.
>
>
> I wanted the weight up front so left the starter on, a everything I could
> leave on to approximate the weight of the Ford which balanced perfectly.
I
> did not want to stick the nose out there!
>
>
> I=92ll try to post some pics of the exhaust/muffler/heat muff set up. On
e
> side is finished, but I=92ll take shots while I put the other side togeth
er.
> Basically, it looks like a WWI SE5 exhaust. Two downtubes from the
> cylinders turn back and will run back alongside the fuselage. There is a
> 24=94, 4=94 diameter muffler just under the cylinders. From the outside
it
> looks like one piece, but the back is a muffler with some baffles inside
> and the front is a heat shroud. Right side does the carb, left side does
> cockpit heat (for my wife=92s toes). Gonna wrap them in exhaust wrap to
keep
> the shroud heat hot, and for a cool look.
>
>
> The side pipes will run joint these units through a ball joint and will
> run back a bit past the pilots=92 cockpit.
>
>
> Douwe
>
> *
>
> st" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> ttp://forums.matronics.com
> =_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> *
>
> *
>
===========
>
===========
===========
===========
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lyle Fast <lylefast(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | O-200-C-90 and exhaust/heat muffs |
I expect it will get very hot! I figured it might melt the fabric glue. It
also adds weight. I don't recommend it. But I love it and can't wait to hea
r it=2C I have never liked the sound or low/mid range performance of short
headers on engines and the engine sound=2C low/mid range performance is a h
uge piece of the experience for me(I ride a harley). I am also a soloist so
passenger considerations are low on my priorities.
Lyle
Date: Sun=2C 15 Jan 2012 16:31:44 -0600
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: O-200-C-90 and exhaust/heat muffs
From: rmueller23(at)gmail.com
Another consideration=2C if carrying passengers=2C you now need to consider
avoiding their scalding themselves as they ingress/egress...if wanting the
long pipe=2C maybe route it under the fuse.....just a thought...
On Sun=2C Jan 15=2C 2012 at 4:24 PM=2C C N Campbell <cncampbell@windstream.
net> wrote:
How hot does that get and how far back does it get hot? If it gets hot TOO
far back=2C I would surely scald myself. C
----- Original Message -----
From: Lyle Fast
Sent: Sunday=2C January 15=2C 2012 1:11 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: O-200-C-90 and exhaust/heat muffs
Have had this mocked up for about a month=2C SE5 was also my inspiration=2C
the book I read said pilots loved the long pipes. No muffler just a stainl
ess flexible exhaust joint.
Lyle
From: douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net
Subject: Pietenpol-List: O-200-C-90 and exhaust/heat muffs
Date: Sun=2C 15 Jan 2012 10:04:31 -0500
Hey Michael=2C
They weigh the same=2C as they are basically the same engine=2C unless you
get the newest O-200 (as has been stated).
The benefit of the C-90 over the O-200 is that it produces more torque at a
slower speed=2C allowing for a larger prop=2C which performs better on a d
raggy airframe like this one. The O-200 was designed to spin a much smalle
r prop=2C much faster for slicker airframes=2C and while it certainly will
fly a Piet=2C just not as nicely as a larger prop (this from guys who have
flown in both=2C not heresay).
The guy who built my engine up is a great guy who was recommended by Jack T
extor and does great work. He has all the parts for a C-90 and a couple O-
200=92s he could modify=2C but not sure if you wanted to do the work yourse
lf. You can contact me offline and I=92ll give you his email if you want t
o chat with him.
I wanted the weight up front so left the starter on=2C a everything I could
leave on to approximate the weight of the Ford which balanced perfectly.
I did not want to stick the nose out there!
I=92ll try to post some pics of the exhaust/muffler/heat muff set up. One
side is finished=2C but I=92ll take shots while I put the other side togeth
er. Basically=2C it looks like a WWI SE5 exhaust. Two downtubes from the
cylinders turn back and will run back alongside the fuselage. There is a 2
4=94=2C 4=94 diameter muffler just under the cylinders. From the outside i
t looks like one piece=2C but the back is a muffler with some baffles insid
e and the front is a heat shroud. Right side does the carb=2C left side do
es cockpit heat (for my wife=92s toes). Gonna wrap them in exhaust wrap to
keep the shroud heat hot=2C and for a cool look.
The side pipes will run joint these units through a ball joint and will run
back a bit past the pilots=92 cockpit.
Douwe
st" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
ttp://forums.matronics.com
=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "C N Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> |
Can I have one of the ones you don't want :>)?
----- Original Message -----
From: Gary Boothe
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2012 12:00 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Logo's
Unless you are an artist, like Douwe or Clif or some others on this
list..if you are like me, and can muddle through the hacking of wood,
gluing, welding, covering..but you just can't seem to get that logo
idea, that has been floating around in your dreams for the past 4 years,
on to paper..if you are tempted to just copy Dan Helsper, but his
friendship means more to you than possessing his cool logo..if you are
hesitant to just go through the yellow pages and pick out a local
graphics designer..maybe..
You will be interested in working with a friend of mine; a young man
(not so young, now) who once dated my daughter (Why? WHY, OH WHY..What
happened to the custom of picking out our daughter's spouse?); an
individual with integrity and respect. He contacted me on FB,
introducing his graphics design business. We communicated back and forth
about a few of my ideas.he did his own background and intel.and 1 =BD
weeks later came back with 7 logo ideas, all original, any of which I
would be happy with! We are doing some narrowing down, and a few
adjustments, but I could not be more impressed. If you are in need of
this kind of help, and would like to work with someone with my
recommendation, contact me off list.
Gary Boothe
NX308MB
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | AMsafetyC(at)aol.com |
i didn't get anything to look at
john
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
Really? How about now?
Gary Boothe
NX308MB
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
AMsafetyC(at)aol.com
Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2012 6:40 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Logo's
i didn't get anything to look at
john
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Clif Dawson" <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: O-200-C-90 and exhaust/heat muffs |
Speaking of SE-5's, here's a replica that's still flying.
It was made from plans available many years ago.
Notice how tight the main tube is to the cylinders.
It doesn't appear to have a muffler in there.
I measured my landing gear today. It's 46 1/2"
inside the ash blocks at the front. With the bungees,
1/2" collar and brake bits there's another 5" on each
side, so 56 1/2" wheel center to center.
Check out that narrow gear on that SE-5! And it's
been flying a long, long time like that. Hmmmmm....
Clif
After all has been said and done..... I just can't resist! :-)
Never criticise a man until you've walked a mile in his shoes. Then, go
ahead and criticise. After all, you're a mile a way and you've got his
shoes.
Have had this mocked up for about a month, SE5 was also my
inspiration, the book I read said pilots loved the long pipes. No
muffler just a stainless flexible exhaust joint.
Lyle
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: O-200-C-90 and exhaust/heat muffs |
Cliff Hi from England.
Please find attached 2 photos of an SE5A replica (7/8 Scale) here in
West of England.
This probably has most of what you want to confirm your feelings for
long exhaust etc.
This one is powered by a C90 and has an 80 inch plus Prop made by Alan
James, the Mr Pietenpol of UK.
The engine area is made up to look authentic using dummy spark plugs and
manifold and traditional radiator nose area.
It sounds great. I will edit a video clip and upload to You Tube later
and send a URL for you to take a look.
A Pietenpol would look good with some of this. Mind you I like the Ford
A setup flying behind a radiator!
Regards
Gerry
Gerry Holland
gholland@content-stream.co.uk
+44 (0)7808 402404
White Ox Mead Airstrip, Bath. England
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: O-200-C-90 and exhaust/heat muffs |
Cliff
A You Tube video of the earlier mentioned SE5A replica for sound effect!
Go for it. I can get more information on the set up if you need it. Perhaps you
shouldn't be encouraged!!
Gerry
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9B7L3q14Mw
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | O-200-C-90 and exhaust/heat muffs |
A Swiss Silencer (pg. 111, "Firewall Forward" by Tony B.) would be a good option
to consider. Running along the bottom, as seems to be typical, wouldn't have
quite the romance of the SE-5 but looks like a good muffler option....
JM
-----Original Message-----
From: Lyle Fast
Sent: Jan 15, 2012 7:51 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: O-200-C-90 and exhaust/heat muffs
I expect it will get very hot! I figured it might melt the fabric glue. It also
adds weight. I don't recommend it. But I love it and can't wait to hear it, I
have never liked the sound or low/mid range performance of short headers on engines
and the engine sound, low/mid range performance is a huge piece of the
experience for me(I ride a harley). I am also a soloist so passenger considerations
are low on my priorities.
Lyle
Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2012 16:31:44 -0600
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: O-200-C-90 and exhaust/heat muffs
From: rmueller23(at)gmail.com
Another consideration, if carrying passengers, you now need to consider avoiding
their scalding themselves as they ingress/egress...if wanting the long pipe,
maybe route it under the fuse.....just a thought...
On Sun, Jan 15, 2012 at 4:24 PM, C N Campbell wrote:
How hot does that get and how far back does it get hot? If it gets hot TOO far
back, I would surely scald myself. C
----- Original Message -----
From: Lyle Fast
Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2012 1:11 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: O-200-C-90 and exhaust/heat muffs
Have had this mocked up for about a month, SE5 was also my inspiration, the book
I read said pilots loved the long pipes. No muffler just a stainless flexible
exhaust joint.
Lyle
From: douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net
Subject: Pietenpol-List: O-200-C-90 and exhaust/heat muffs
Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2012 10:04:31 -0500
Hey Michael,
They weigh the same, as they are basically the same engine, unless you get the
newest O-200 (as has been stated).
The benefit of the C-90 over the O-200 is that it produces more torque at a slower
speed, allowing for a larger prop, which performs better on a draggy airframe
like this one. The O-200 was designed to spin a much smaller prop, much faster
for slicker airframes, and while it certainly will fly a Piet, just not
as nicely as a larger prop (this from guys who have flown in both, not heresay).
The guy who built my engine up is a great guy who was recommended by Jack Textor
and does great work. He has all the parts for a C-90 and a couple O-200s he
could modify, but not sure if you wanted to do the work yourself. You can contact
me offline and Ill give you his email if you want to chat with him.
I wanted the weight up front so left the starter on, a everything I could leave
on to approximate the weight of the Ford which balanced perfectly. I did not
want to stick the nose out there!
Ill try to post some pics of the exhaust/muffler/heat muff set up. One side is
finished, but Ill take shots while I put the other side together. Basically,
it looks like a WWI SE5 exhaust. Two downtubes from the cylinders turn back
and will run back alongside the fuselage. There is a 24, 4 diameter muffler just
under the cylinders. From the outside it looks like one piece, but the back
is a muffler with some baffles inside and the front is a heat shroud. Right
side does the carb, left side does cockpit heat (for my wifes toes). Gonna
wrap them in exhaust wrap to keep the shroud heat hot, and for a cool look.
The side pipes will run joint these units through a ball joint and will run back
a bit past the pilots cockpit.
Douwe
st" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
ttp://forums.matronics.com
=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
st" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
ttp://forums.matronics.com
=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Please can we find the gentlemanly behavior again? we're |
"disconcerting the masses" guys!
At least I'm disconcerted!!
As one who has participated in this list for at least eight or nine years
and reads it almost daily, I can objectively say that the tone has most
definitely changed recently, and not for the good.
The two great benefits of this list for me have been: 1 the wealth of
knowledge freely shared 2. The camaraderie and encouragement I have found as
I've built and learned, learned and built on this beautiful little time
machine we call the Pietenpol.
The tone of the list in general has always been very helpful, upbeat,
respectful, patient, polite, generally forebearing and. truthful , all at
the same time. I enjoyed these qualities very much and also the fact that
"unpietenpol" issues were rarely interjected such as politics, or other
worldly concerns. It seemed to keep the flavor of the time this plane was
designed when we pulled together as Americans to create something that we
found worthwhile and interesting, the same qualities I think we all cherish
about Brodhead for example.
Gentlemen, (and gentlewomen) my plea is that all of us on this list strive
to re-capture that tone in ALL our correspondence. Here are some thoughts:
1. Let's leave politics, current-issues etc off the list as much as
possible.
2. Let's try to be patient, encouraging and (here's a word we don't
hear much these days) Forbearing with/to to each other, especially newbies,
eccentrics, and yes knuckleheads. while we're being truthful.
3. If you disagree with a course of action, that's great! But phrase it
in a gentlemanly, encouraging, non-demeaning or non-sarcastic way, and
please. learn when to stop.
4. PLEASE let's stop the ever increasing use of profanity that is
sliding into our communications, it's just not needed.
5. The point is, we're trying to help each other and enjoy some
fellowship in a common interest.
6. We should all see ourselves as "ambassadors" for the plane we love
and the legacy of Bernard Pietenpol and conduct ourselves accordingly.
7. At the end of the day, even if we disagree on stuff, JUST BE NICE TO
EACHOTHER!!
8. Here's a new one.use no language not heard in "the Great Waldo
Pepper" and we'll be on track!!(seriously, not a bad idea!)
This list has truly been a great enjoyment to me, something I look forward
to each morning, and an invaluable asset to my build and rebuild. I also
know it has always possessed a uniquely positive tone, without the modern
"hard-edge" our culture has developed (and which almost all similar lists
degenerate into). Let us get back on track. Let's emulate in our
communications the humble man who designed our beautiful planes. He was
honest, humble, soft spoken could speak the truth, but gently and firmly,
always backed up with common sense and practical knowledge. We could choose
far worse.
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "C N Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Please can we find the gentlemanly behavior again? |
we're "disconcerting the masses" guys!
Douwe, well said. To "profanity" I would like to add "vulgarity".
Love the list, anyway!!!! C
----- Original Message -----
From: Douwe Blumberg
To: pietenpolgroup
Sent: Monday, January 16, 2012 8:56 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Please can we find the gentlemanly behavior
again? we're "disconcerting the masses" guys!
At least I'm disconcerted!!
As one who has participated in this list for at least eight or nine
years and reads it almost daily, I can objectively say that the tone has
most definitely changed recently, and not for the good.
The two great benefits of this list for me have been: 1 the wealth of
knowledge freely shared 2. The camaraderie and encouragement I have
found as I've built and learned, learned and built on this beautiful
little time machine we call the Pietenpol.
The tone of the list in general has always been very helpful, upbeat,
respectful, patient, polite, generally forebearing and. truthful , all
at the same time. I enjoyed these qualities very much and also the fact
that "unpietenpol" issues were rarely interjected such as politics, or
other worldly concerns. It seemed to keep the flavor of the time this
plane was designed when we pulled together as Americans to create
something that we found worthwhile and interesting, the same qualities I
think we all cherish about Brodhead for example.
Gentlemen, (and gentlewomen) my plea is that all of us on this list
strive to re-capture that tone in ALL our correspondence. Here are some
thoughts:
1.. Let's leave politics, current-issues etc off the list as much as
possible.
2.. Let's try to be patient, encouraging and (here's a word we don't
hear much these days) Forbearing with/to to each other, especially
newbies, eccentrics, and yes knuckleheads. while we're being truthful.
3.. If you disagree with a course of action, that's great! But
phrase it in a gentlemanly, encouraging, non-demeaning or non-sarcastic
way, and please. learn when to stop.
4.. PLEASE let's stop the ever increasing use of profanity that is
sliding into our communications, it's just not needed.
5.. The point is, we're trying to help each other and enjoy some
fellowship in a common interest.
6.. We should all see ourselves as "ambassadors" for the plane we
love and the legacy of Bernard Pietenpol and conduct ourselves
accordingly.
7.. At the end of the day, even if we disagree on stuff, JUST BE
NICE TO EACHOTHER!!
8.. Here's a new one.use no language not heard in "the Great Waldo
Pepper" and we'll be on track!!(seriously, not a bad idea!)
This list has truly been a great enjoyment to me, something I look
forward to each morning, and an invaluable asset to my build and
rebuild. I also know it has always possessed a uniquely positive tone,
without the modern "hard-edge" our culture has developed (and which
almost all similar lists degenerate into). Let us get back on track.
Let's emulate in our communications the humble man who designed our
beautiful planes. He was honest, humble, soft spoken could speak the
truth, but gently and firmly, always backed up with common sense and
practical knowledge. We could choose far worse.
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Please can we find the gentlemanly behavior again? |
we're "disconcerting the masses" guys!
I agree completely, Douwe. Using language from TGWP, "You BASTARD! You
dirty rotten Bastard!" I think that was the coarsest thing said in that
movie.
I've been a constant subscriber to this list since its earliest days, when
it was transitioned to Matronics from Steve Eldredge's list at BYU back
about 1997. It has been a good source of information and inspiration, as
well as entertainment. The best thing about it has been the friends that I
have made, with introductions on the list and then face-to-face meeting at
Brodhead (with the exception of Kevin Purtee, whom I first met at Brodhead
before I ever saw a post from him on the list).
I know I've been guilty of posting what I thought was a humorous comment,
only to find I've offended someone unintentionally (usually about a Corvair,
but I should realize that broken crankshafts are nothing to laugh about.
JUST KIDDING). I do try to offer advice (when asked), and encouragement -
particularly to brand new builders. Mike Cuy has traditionally been the
ambassador of good will on this list, but lately personal issues have kept
him away. We need him back to keep us away from the dark side.
So keep building, keep posting, but think about your comments before hitting
Send.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Douwe
Blumberg
Sent: Monday, January 16, 2012 8:56 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Please can we find the gentlemanly behavior again?
we're "disconcerting the masses" guys!
At least I'm disconcerted!!
As one who has participated in this list for at least eight or nine years
and reads it almost daily, I can objectively say that the tone has most
definitely changed recently, and not for the good.
The two great benefits of this list for me have been: 1 the wealth of
knowledge freely shared 2. The camaraderie and encouragement I have found as
I've built and learned, learned and built on this beautiful little time
machine we call the Pietenpol.
The tone of the list in general has always been very helpful, upbeat,
respectful, patient, polite, generally forebearing and. truthful , all at
the same time. I enjoyed these qualities very much and also the fact that
"unpietenpol" issues were rarely interjected such as politics, or other
worldly concerns. It seemed to keep the flavor of the time this plane was
designed when we pulled together as Americans to create something that we
found worthwhile and interesting, the same qualities I think we all cherish
about Brodhead for example.
Gentlemen, (and gentlewomen) my plea is that all of us on this list strive
to re-capture that tone in ALL our correspondence. Here are some thoughts:
1. Let's leave politics, current-issues etc off the list as much as
possible.
2. Let's try to be patient, encouraging and (here's a word we don't
hear much these days) Forbearing with/to to each other, especially newbies,
eccentrics, and yes knuckleheads. while we're being truthful.
3. If you disagree with a course of action, that's great! But phrase it
in a gentlemanly, encouraging, non-demeaning or non-sarcastic way, and
please. learn when to stop.
4. PLEASE let's stop the ever increasing use of profanity that is
sliding into our communications, it's just not needed.
5. The point is, we're trying to help each other and enjoy some
fellowship in a common interest.
6. We should all see ourselves as "ambassadors" for the plane we love
and the legacy of Bernard Pietenpol and conduct ourselves accordingly.
7. At the end of the day, even if we disagree on stuff, JUST BE NICE TO
EACHOTHER!!
8. Here's a new one.use no language not heard in "the Great Waldo
Pepper" and we'll be on track!!(seriously, not a bad idea!)
This list has truly been a great enjoyment to me, something I look forward
to each morning, and an invaluable asset to my build and rebuild. I also
know it has always possessed a uniquely positive tone, without the modern
"hard-edge" our culture has developed (and which almost all similar lists
degenerate into). Let us get back on track. Let's emulate in our
communications the humble man who designed our beautiful planes. He was
honest, humble, soft spoken could speak the truth, but gently and firmly,
always backed up with common sense and practical knowledge. We could choose
far worse.
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Please can we find the gentlemanly behavior again? |
we're "disconcerting the masses" guys!
I agree with Douwe's post 100%.- I hope we all take time to think prior t
o posting and keep in mind that some of us have little ones and spouses loo
king over our shoulders as we read the latests postings.
-
As you all may know, I work every day with Mike Cuy. We are in the same bui
lding, offices 10 feet apart and talk daily. There are many reasons for his
"lack of contibutions" lately to the list, but I know that during his time
off from here, he has re-focused and has chosen to make adjustments in-h
is emotions, attitude and mindset. I feel he is better for it...I see and h
ear it everyday at work now.
-
-
Michael Perez
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: what Piets sell for |
| From: | "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com> |
I paid a little less, 12.5, which I considered a good deal at the time. Now that
I'm a plane owner, talking more with other plane owners, I consider it a GREAT
deal.
A friend of mine has a 172... which was flying a little crooked. To make a LONG
story short, TEN THOUSAND DOLLARS later, a wing was repaired, repainted and
installed, and it should fly straight now...
I replaced a landing gear leg for about $5.
LOVE THIS PLANE!
Tools
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=363996#363996
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Nearly 30 hours of "shoptime" over the past 3 days |
| From: | "aerocarjake" <flight.jake(at)gmail.com> |
Hello good Piet-ple...
Just a note to say I was able to enjoy nearly 30 hours of time in the shop over
the past three days - Saturday being the longest and most pleasant 13 hours.
(I had Friday off because I work 9 hours each workday and get every-other-Friday
off)
These days it's making and jigging all the little tabs that will be welded to the
frame to mount the floorboards. A local sheet metal shop sheared the 1.5 x
0.75 pieces, then each one gets drilled in a jig, bent in my press brake (see
pix), drilled for the nutplate, ground over the sharp corners, and jigged in place
awaiting the welder...... I only need to do this about 28 times :-)
Having a wonderful time....... Now back to work (Boeing does not get MLK day off)
with memories of a fine three-day weekend...........
Hope all you get a three-day weekend and find the Pietenpol as part of it...
--------
Jake Schultz - curator,
Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=363999#363999
Attachments:
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB" <steven.d.dortch(at)us.army.mil> |
| Subject: | Re: Please can we find the gentlemanly behavior again? |
we're "disconcerting the masses" guys!
Jack, I watched TGWP just last night with the family. I am a Christian and really
try to keep things family oriented.
Cursing in the movie consists of: Bastard, Son of a Bitch and God Dammit! It also
has talk about how sex sells. But it is very mild compared to much of what
is on TV today. My boys hear much worse at school and when their friends play
current music (including country!)
I really like keeping the list Civil.
Though it is somewhat like watching two kids at school yell names at each other.
Entertaining in its own right.
Blue Skies,
Steve "Just lurking until I can buy a Piet" D
----- Original Message -----
From: Jack Phillips <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Date: Monday, January 16, 2012 8:49
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Please can we find the gentlemanly behavior again?
we're "disconcerting the masses" guys!
> I agree completely, Douwe. Using language from TGWP, "You BASTARD!
> You
> dirty rotten Bastard!" I think that was the coarsest thing said in
> thatmovie.
>
>
>
> I've been a constant subscriber to this list since its earliest
> days, when
> it was transitioned to Matronics from Steve Eldredge's list at BYU
> backabout 1997. It has been a good source of information and
> inspiration, as
> well as entertainment. The best thing about it has been the
> friends that I
> have made, with introductions on the list and then face-to-face
> meeting at
> Brodhead (with the exception of Kevin Purtee, whom I first met at
> Brodheadbefore I ever saw a post from him on the list).
>
>
>
> I know I've been guilty of posting what I thought was a humorous
> comment,only to find I've offended someone unintentionally (usually
> about a Corvair,
> but I should realize that broken crankshafts are nothing to laugh
> about.JUST KIDDING). I do try to offer advice (when asked), and
> encouragement -
> particularly to brand new builders. Mike Cuy has traditionally
> been the
> ambassador of good will on this list, but lately personal issues
> have kept
> him away. We need him back to keep us away from the dark side.
>
>
>
> So keep building, keep posting, but think about your comments
> before hitting
> Send.
>
>
>
> Jack Phillips
>
> NX899JP
>
> Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
>
>
>
> _____
>
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Douwe
> Blumberg
> Sent: Monday, January 16, 2012 8:56 AM
> To: pietenpolgroup
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Please can we find the gentlemanly
> behavior again?
> we're "disconcerting the masses" guys!
>
>
>
> At least I'm disconcerted!!
>
>
>
> As one who has participated in this list for at least eight or nine
> yearsand reads it almost daily, I can objectively say that the tone
> has most
> definitely changed recently, and not for the good.
>
>
>
> The two great benefits of this list for me have been: 1 the wealth of
> knowledge freely shared 2. The camaraderie and encouragement I have
> found as
> I've built and learned, learned and built on this beautiful little
> timemachine we call the Pietenpol.
>
>
>
> The tone of the list in general has always been very helpful, upbeat,
> respectful, patient, polite, generally forebearing and. truthful ,
> all at
> the same time. I enjoyed these qualities very much and also the
> fact that
> "unpietenpol" issues were rarely interjected such as politics, or
> otherworldly concerns. It seemed to keep the flavor of the time
> this plane was
> designed when we pulled together as Americans to create something
> that we
> found worthwhile and interesting, the same qualities I think we all
> cherishabout Brodhead for example.
>
>
>
> Gentlemen, (and gentlewomen) my plea is that all of us on this list
> striveto re-capture that tone in ALL our correspondence. Here are
> some thoughts:
>
>
>
> 1. Let's leave politics, current-issues etc off the list as much as
> possible.
> 2. Let's try to be patient, encouraging and (here's a word we don't
> hear much these days) Forbearing with/to to each other, especially
> newbies,eccentrics, and yes knuckleheads. while we're being truthful.
> 3. If you disagree with a course of action, that's great! But
> phrase it
> in a gentlemanly, encouraging, non-demeaning or non-sarcastic way, and
> please. learn when to stop.
> 4. PLEASE let's stop the ever increasing use of profanity that is
> sliding into our communications, it's just not needed.
> 5. The point is, we're trying to help each other and enjoy some
> fellowship in a common interest.
> 6. We should all see ourselves as "ambassadors" for the plane we love
> and the legacy of Bernard Pietenpol and conduct ourselves accordingly.
> 7. At the end of the day, even if we disagree on stuff, JUST BE
> NICE TO
> EACHOTHER!!
> 8. Here's a new one.use no language not heard in "the Great Waldo
> Pepper" and we'll be on track!!(seriously, not a bad idea!)
>
>
>
> This list has truly been a great enjoyment to me, something I look
> forwardto each morning, and an invaluable asset to my build and
> rebuild. I also
> know it has always possessed a uniquely positive tone, without the
> modern"hard-edge" our culture has developed (and which almost all
> similar lists
> degenerate into). Let us get back on track. Let's emulate in our
> communications the humble man who designed our beautiful planes.
> He was
> honest, humble, soft spoken could speak the truth, but gently and
> firmly,always backed up with common sense and practical knowledge.
> We could choose
> far worse.
>
>
>
> Douwe
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: O-200-C-90 and exhaust/heat muffs |
| From: | "Blue Sky" <lylefast(at)hotmail.com> |
Not my thread but thanks for the pics, etc. Very cool!
Lyle
--------
My passion for the landscape has lead me to the sky.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=364006#364006
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB" <steven.d.dortch(at)us.army.mil> |
| Subject: | OT Great Ready to fly Model plane for kids of all ages |
For Christmas we bought my grandson a Hobbyzone RTF Remote Control Champ. About
$100.
It is a great purchase for an "airminded" AKA "Plane crazy" ten year old kid.
I was able to coach him to flying and landing in two lessons. The first session
was two short flights ending in crashes that broke a wing off. After tape and
glue repairs and some internet video research, the second session had him doing
OK with us chasing the plane from "out" landings. Now 5 Sessions in he can
do a loop, Outside loop, Hammerheads and land the plane within 20 feet of us.
He is learning a lot.
I think the next thing (in several months) will be a plane that needs some building.
Then one he builds from a kit. then build from scratch.
Good purchase. Plane is easy to learn, easy to repair and has a lot of performance
for the price.
Blue Skies,
Steve D
Right now he is talking in my ear asking why we can't just attach wings and fly
ourselves.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: OT Great Ready to fly Model plane for kids of all |
ages
Cool! What would he think about RC helicopters? (My personal choice.)
Michael Perez
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: OT Great Ready to fly Model plane for kids of all |
ages
| From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
I agree, a great idea fora "plane crazy" kiddo. My guy is only 7, but he's pretty
good on the simulator and has been asking me for an R/C airplane for sometime.
My intention was to wait until he could build his own, but those skills
may be several years away... hate to discourage him from the hobby when he seems
so interested. Plus, he asked Santa, and Santa knows that he's been good.
;-)
He's not flying solo yet, but maybe next time out.
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=364016#364016
Attachments:
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB" <steven.d.dortch(at)us.army.mil> |
| Subject: | Re: OT Great Ready to fly Model plane for kids of all |
ages
He piddles with the Tiny Air Hog RC choppers but too many crashes and hitting things
in the house. (I think his has a flaw and does not steer right. Besides,
He wanted a "real" plane. I think we will look at anouther Air Hog in several
months.
His father got all excited a couple of years ago and bought a Stealth fighter RC.
It is at best a mid level aircraft. they crashed it and were too discouraged.
It is in the attack waiting for his skills to catchup.
Blue Skies,
Steve D
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Date: Monday, January 16, 2012 12:13
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: OT Great Ready to fly Model plane for kids of all
ages
> Cool! What would he think about RC helicopters? (My personal choice.)
>
> Michael Perez
> Karetaker Aero
> www.karetakeraero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB" <steven.d.dortch(at)us.army.mil> |
| Subject: | Re: OT Great Ready to fly Model plane for kids of |
all ages
In My Humble Opinion. He Might be able to control this. It is only throttle, right/left
rudder and elevator. No ailerons. After the first crash damage I had
him taxi it around the kitchen with a piece of Ducttape (Piet content :-) limiting
the throttle. That taught him not to go to the limits on the controls all
the time.
There are two settings for the control speed. Faster and slower for learning. You
push a button until a light flashes and then the controls react slower. After
several sessions, we set put it on faster controls and That is where he flys
it now.
The plane has "Autoland" that means when you throttle back and release the controls
it simply rolls level and glides to the ground. IF it is in a serious dive,
it will begin to recover but may not in time. (just like real planes. )
Here is a video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVPGPqYKzdQ&feature=related
Blue Skies,
Steve D
BTW I have almost zero RC experience. I have not flown this plane. It is the province
of my 10 year old. He is becoming the RC expert.
----- Original Message -----
From: K5YAC <hangar10(at)cox.net>
Date: Monday, January 16, 2012 12:47
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: OT Great Ready to fly Model plane for kids of all
ages
>
> I agree, a great idea fora "plane crazy" kiddo. My guy is only 7, but he's pretty
good on the simulator and has been asking me for
> an R/C airplane for sometime. My intention was to wait until he
> could build his own, but those skills may be several years away...
> hate to discourage him from the hobby when he seems so interested.
> Plus, he asked Santa, and Santa knows that he's been good. ;-)
>
> He's not flying solo yet, but maybe next time out.
>
> --------
> Mark Chouinard
> Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=364016#364016
>
>
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/catoosa_20111225_00521_793.jpg
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
List,
Not only has my graphics designer forgiven me for mistakenly posting his
work, he has included it on his Facebook page, Brett Naillon Design (with my
permission). You will find him very willing to personalize your logo
designs, in almost any manner you wish. Whew!!!!
Gary Boothe
NX308MB
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jeff wilson <jlwilsonnn(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | The Art of Pietenpol |
We are all Artists=0A=0AI have been following this forum for about 3 years
now. Didn't really introduce myself as a newby 'cause I'm not really. Been
studying and reading about homebuilts for 30 years. EAA member that long to
o. Got my Piet plans 20 years ago. Kids are out of college so I started bui
lding about 2 years ago. I'm also restoring another Piet with EAA Chapt. 64
. With some luck we may just make it to Brodhead this year.=0A=0AHaving fou
nd this rich and informative resource called the Pietenpol list, I sure hop
e everyone remains on board.=0AReading this list everyday is kind of like w
atching your favorite TV show where you know all the characters. I hope thi
s shows ratings remain high and it never gets cancelled.=0A=0AReprinted bel
ow are some very inspirational words from some other respected=C2- Piet P
eople that I thought might be welcome reading today:=0A=C2-=0ADouwe, the
artist, creates beautiful work with hands and now with his words. =0A------
------------------------------------------------------=0A1. Let=99
s leave politics, current-issues etc off the list as much as possible.=C2
- =0A2. Let=99s try to be patient, encouraging and (here
=99s a word we don=99t hear much these days) Forbearing with/to to ea
ch other, especially newbies, eccentrics, and yes knuckleheads whi
le we=99re being truthful.=0A3. If you disagree with a course of a
ction, that=99s great! But phrase it in a gentlemanly, encouraging, n
on-demeaning or non-sarcastic way, and please learn when to stop.
=0A4. PLEASE let=99s stop the ever increasing use of profanity tha
t is sliding into our communications, it=99s just not needed.=0A5.
The point is, we=99re trying to help each other and enjoy some fello
wship in a common interest.=0A6. We should all see ourselves as
=9Cambassadors=9D for the plane we love and the legacy of Bernard Pie
tenpol and conduct ourselves accordingly.=0A7. At the end of the day, ev
en if we disagree on stuff, JUST BE NICE TO EACHOTHER!!=0A8. Here
=99s a new oneuse no language not heard in =9Cthe Great Wald
o Pepper=9D and we=99ll be on track!!(seriously, not a bad idea
!)=0AThanks Douwe.=0A------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------=0A=0A=0AOscar Zuniga - Engineer, Pie
tenpoler and Poet.=0A=0A--------------------------------------=0A=0A=0AI'm
an engineer.=C2- Logical, rational, methodical.=C2- And yet, I=0A=0Afal
l for the lure of the open cockpit and the "scent of an airplane"=0A=0Athat
comes from the wood and fabric of my Pietenpol, without rhyme=0A=0Aor reas
on.=C2- It's the perfect elixir of avgas, exhaust, wood, and=0A=0Asome su
blime mixture that Ray Stits or Bernard Pietenpol or=0A=0Asomebody came up
with in a back room somewhere.=C2- Heck, for all I=0A=0Aknow there is a J
ohn Stromberg and a Fred Continental who also=0A=0Asat in the room and spri
nkled some kind of pixie dust in the vial=0A=0Ato come up with the intoxica
ting stuff.=C2- It comes out of these=0A=0Aold airplanes, from their exha
usts and cockpits and propwashes,=0A=0Aand fills our senses and leads us ar
ound on a leash like puppies.=0A=0A=0AWhatever it is, it's more potent than
wine, women, or song.=C2- It's=0A=0Awhat keeps pulling us back to the ha
ngar, to the cockpit, to the=0A=0Aprop, throttle, and stick.=0A=0A=0AWe go
nowhere on these flights... we start and end up at the same place.=C2- It
's=0A=0Alike a ride that ends too soon but the next one is only as far away
=0A=0Aas the hangar door and the fuel valve, so we can keep going back=0A
=0Aagain and again.=C2- We fly the same routine, feel the same sensations
=0A=0Athrough the wires and controls, feel the same blast of air on our=0A
=0Afaces, but each time it's new again, and perfect.=C2- There is just no
=0A=0Aexplanation for what it is about flying these old airplanes.=0A------
------------------=0ASure there is Oscar, its romance. The kind we cannot s
hare with our spouses because it can almost spark the flame of jealousy. Th
ats why we are all attracted to this site. Here we can express our love amo
ng like minded folk and be understood.=0A=0A-------------------------------
-----------------------------------------------=0A.....and of course the "P
ietenpol Preamble"=0A------------------------------------------------------
------------------------=0A=C2-=0APietenpol Preamble=0A=C2-=0A=C3=BC=C2
- Building an airplane isn't for everyone.=C2- We have some PhD researc
hers here where I work that understand nanotechnology almost to sub-atomic
levels yet I wouldn't let some of them even try to help me duct tape two pi
eces of wood together because they just don't have a mechanical mind or han
ds. =0A=0A=0A=C3=BC=C2- When you get frustrated, take a break, step back,
do some doodling, sketch out some of your ideas, read the Tony Bingelis bo
oks=C2- (if you don't buy them I will push pins into some voodoo doll:)
=C2- (thanks for mentioning those books Jack Phillips--you're right!)=C2
-and take your time. =0A=0A=0A=C3=BC=C2- Don't over think things.=C2-
=C2-=C2-Just buy aircraft grade wood, glue, 4130 steel, and real AN har
dware.=C2-=C2-=C2-If you must substitute non-aircraft grade materials
really make sure you're not doing it on something super critical like your
wing strut attachment=0Abolts or propeller bolts. =0A=0A=0A=C3=BC=C2- Ev
ery time you try to go cheap or cut corners, think of who you might kill be
cause you needed to save $25 that week.=C2-=C2-=C2-Just wait until yo
u have enough money to buy something you know is of good quality. =0A=0A=0A
=C3=BC=C2- Being thrifty is a great thing about homebuilding-- do scroung
e, do look for discarded project wood bundles, instruments, hardware, and u
sed motors, wheels, and brakes but don't pull a Sanford and Son if only for
the Young Eagle rides you might give or that ride to your loving wife or c
hildren.=C2-=C2-=C2-=0A=0A=0A=C3=BC=C2- Some like to pontificate, y
ack, do multi-year research projects on exactly what is the best widget to
use to glue a gusset to a cap strip and some like to build a good solid to-
the-plans airplane and enjoy flying it.=C2-=C2-=C2-Every day you wast
e reinventing the wheel is that many more days you don't have on this earth
to enjoy flying your completed airplane.=C2-=C2- If you're a thinker a
nd love to do that kind of research, have at it, enjoy it, and you'll learn
more than any of the rest of us and I'd love to be the one to listen to he
ar what you've learned but if you want to build, finish, and enjoy flying i
t, all the power to your type of personality as well.=C2-=C2-Both types
are ALWAYS welcomed here.=C2- We are all different and whatever suites y
ou best--you do it. =0A=0A=0A=C3=BC=C2- Don't listen to old wives tales a
bout construction techniques.=C2- Unless you're talking with an A&P mecha
nic, a guy or gal who has actually=C2-built and flown an airplane success
fully, or someone that you really trust who has outstanding aircraft knowle
dge, just believe what methods and techniques for building that are contain
ed in the Tony Bingelis books. I believe that Tony built and flew 7 airplan
es over his lifetime and his books were the final word for me, the bible if
you will of helping me make my decisions when I got whishy-washy unsure an
d conflicting answers to my questions to the list or the guys out at the ai
rport. =0A=0A=0A=C3=BC=C2- There are a zillion ways to do just about ever
y part of the airplane but generally speaking, unless you are making a cosm
etic change (like I did by raising my firewall, instrument panels, and turt
le deck 1" higher than the plans show) you'll save yourself lots of headach
es by using the design that has proven to fly good as blueprinted over 80 y
ears ago now. =C2-Not to say that there are many great modifications that
folks have come up with because they have and some of them are BETTER than
how the plane was designed in the first place but the fact remains that if
you are not comfortable with redesigning the wheel and your gut gives you
a lousy feeling about this part or that-- don't do it. =0A=0A=0A=C3=BC=C2
- There are some REALLY great modifications I love that I wish I would ha
ve incorporated into my plane.=C2-Make the wing longer---your plane will
be able to LIFT=0A>more weight on the same power.=C2-Aeronca Champs and C
ubs have what, 35 foot long wings and they can lift TONS of weight but the
Piet wing is only 29 feet long.=C2-Bill Rewey, Jack Phillips and others h
ave longer wings than plans or wider center sections to make the effective
overall wing longer which is a GREAT move to make!=C2-If I had to do it o
ver again I would add probably 2 or 3 feet to my overall wingspan.=C2- Pr
obably 3.=C2- =C2- =0A=0A=0A=C3=BC=C2- Don't worry about setting a ti
me table.=C2- I foolishly proclaimed I would finish my plane in 2 years a
nd experienced builders upon hearing this would have to visibly suppress th
eir laughter and it made me frustrated because I was going to prove them wr
ong.=C2-=C2-Yeah right.=C2-=C2-See 11 for answer)=0A=0A=0A=C3=BC=C2
- Mike Cuy's Builder's Rule of Thumb for Task Completion Prediction Time
Frames:=C2- Whatever amount of time you think it will take you to complet
e a task, multiply it by 2 for the realistic time it will take=C2- you.
=C2- Your mileage may vary but my fantasy-to-reality conversion time fact
or was 2. =0A=0A=0A=C3=BC=C2- You will learn an enormous amount of really
enjoyable new skills and=C2-talents by the time you finish your airplane
.=C2-=C2-=C2-Perhaps you'll learn how to weld, to lace wire wheels, t
o cut Lexan or form Plexiglas, to orient wood grain properly, how to correc
tly install bolts and why they go in this way and not that way,=C2- you'l
l learn how to apply fabric,=C2- how to rib stitch, how to spray paint an
d put the finishing layers of paint on your plane, you might learn how to r
ebuild a nice used Continental A-65 run-out Piper Cub or Luscombe engine or
how to overhaul a set of magnetos.=C2-=C2-You'll learn how to choose w
hat length and pitch prop to use and how tight to make the bolts and what b
olts and nuts are acceptable on metal vs. wood props.=C2-=C2-You'll lea
rn maybe how to cut leather and lace it around your cockpit areas or maybe
you'll learn how to swage nicopress sleeves on aircraft grade cable to make
up all of your various control systems.=C2-=C2-You'll learn to
avoid negative people who might say "You're never going to finish this are
=C2-you let alone FLY in it are you?"=C2- Think of the money=C2-you'l
l save by taking all of those naysayers off of your Christmas card list the
n never giving their kids a ride because they were such butt holes when you
were in the thick of building the dream of your lifetime.=C2-=C2-=C2
-(okay....you can take them off your Christmas card list but at least giv
e their kids rides---they can't help it they have ignorant and negative par
ents.)=C2- =C2- =0A=0A=0A=C3=BC=C2- Don't GIVE UP!=C2-=C2-=C2-D
o NOT SELL your project EVER!!!!!!!=C2- =C2- Don't go to your sick bed
or nursing home saying "gosh, I wish I would have kept that Piet project in
stead of selling it because we needed to buy little Johnny a used car."=C2
-=C2-=C2-You can always shelve your project for a few years till kids
are thru college or you get thru your divorce or your illness but don't ev
er give up your bucket list DREAM of a lifetime.=C2- =C2- How many peop
le out there can actually say "YES-- I had this dream since I was about 18
and the Good Lord gave me the opportunity and skills and finances to see fi
t that I could do it now at this point in my life and my dream upon a star
has come true and now I can give rides, have fun flying it on smooth summer
nights, and share what I learned with new Pietenpol builders following tha
t very same dream.=C2- =C2- You sure will sleep good knowing you accomp
lished building and flying=C2-your own airplane.=C2-=C2-=C2-I can't
think of a better
bucket list checkmark to have for a person who can't shake that burning de
sire to someday build and fly their own airplane. =0A=0A=0A=C3=BC=C2- Las
tly and most importantly-- I used to think that building and flying my Piet
was the MOST important thing I would do for myself and I knew I wanted to
share it, to give rides, and to infect others with how much fun and inexpen
sive open cockpit low and slow flying really is but you know what I found w
as an even MORE important joy that continues to be far and above the most r
ewarding part of my building and flying days?=C2-=C2-The incredibly fon
d friendships I have formed with fellow Pietenpol builders, enthusiasts, an
d retired Pietenpol flyers and up and coming Pietenpol builders. =0A=0A=0A
=C3=BC=C2- I have been blessed by getting to know so amazing people with
amazing talents, skills, and even some who can't even cut a piece of paper
straight but they can make me laugh until the tears are streaming down my f
ace or they will listen to me on the phone about my personal life's issues
good or bad, or they will e-mail me off list and ask me how I am doing.=C2
-=C2-=C2-They will share that they just lost a Mom or Dad and I will
hurt for them and pray for them.=C2-=C2-=C2-They will do the same for
me.=C2-=C2-=C2-Those Pietenpol friends will meet me halfway enroute
to Brodhead to share a good meal at a local pub or restaurant, they will le
t me know when they will be passing thru Cleveland so I can try to make the
m buy me dinner, they will listen to me complain about stupid stuff that I
shouldn't even be complaining about and I will do the same for them because
they are REALLY special people in my life now and even if I didn't own the
airplane anymore or I lost my medical
ability to fly, I would still have=0A=0A=0A=C3=BC=C2- Those incredible f
riendships that all came about, much to my surprise, just because I decided
to build and fly one of these wood crates with wings. =0A=0ACarry on, =0AM
ike C.=0A=C2-=0A---------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------=0A=C2-=0AJeff Wilson=0ASt. Louis, MO
=0AEAA Chapter 64=0AH49 Hangar 19
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Riblet 612 cg range? |
| From: | "rorichts" <stolflite(at)gmail.com> |
New to the forum but ran across this on subject list.
Interested to know the reasons for choosing the GA30-612 for the Piet.
Understand the the 30 but why the 612? I am also interested to know if these airfoils
are a refit or have been chosen on the original build?
I think that the choice of the Riblett is a good one and interested in thought
process that led you to choose same. Also are you putting the spars in the same
location as you would have on the the Piet. foil?
thanks
rich
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=364033#364033
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Water bombing |
| From: | "regchief" <kbosley(at)comcast.net> |
As I recall, last summer, when I met you all at the gathering, we were water bombed
the whole day,,, from the sky above us
Kelly
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=364047#364047
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Size of the turtle deck stringers |
| From: | Mark Roberts <mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com> |
Plans seem to miss this one or I seemed to have missed it on the plans...
They do seem SO complete :o)
(Heresy and sacrilege I am sure... Please no flames after all the list has
endured recently :o)
Thickness and width of the turtle deck stringers?
I am thinking 1/4" x 1"?
Just came back in from a VERY cold barn after almost finishing the cuts for
the fuse joining. Hopeing epoxy goes on tomorrow and gussets the day after.
Then, by the end of the week... No, could it be? Adding the floor and
turning it upright so I can sit in it and make airplane noises! Ha! What a
kid...
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Houston area Piets |
Okay, so I admit to being too lazy to search the archives or
try to dig out my Piet directory (in a box somewhere).
I was contacted by a fellow in Houston who is on the verge of
buying a Piet from a friend of his in Minnesota or someplace up
in that country. He is asking about Piet owners in the Houston
area that he might be able to hook up with to look at, sit in,
and possibly get a ride in their airplanes prior to pulling the
trigger on the purchase of this Piet. The airplane he's looking
at needs some work, but not a lot. His preference is to find a Piet with a
small Continental on the nose since the one he's looking at has
an A65 on it. However, I'm sure he would be happy to hook up
with anyone with a flying Piet. He is presently flying a Rotax
powered Kitfox, so he's not a beginner at this flying stuff.
Who is out there? He already knows about Kevin and "Fat Bottom
Girl" and I told him about the Ford A powered Piet over in
Rockport. I forgot about Hans (I'll pass that info along)-
but who else is in, or around, or close to, Houston?
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
Flying Squirrel N2069Z "Rocket"
Medford, OR
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Clif Dawson" <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: O-200-C-90 and exhaust/heat muffs |
Hi Gerry from England
I think it's Lyle who needs the pics. He's got the long
exhaust. I found an interesting pic of the real thing.
What this does to the exhaust note I don't know but
it must be something. Otherwise, why go to all this
trouble? Real good lookin' replica!
Clif in British Columbia.
ALMOST around the world. :-)
Cliff Hi from England.
Please find attached 2 photos of an SE5A replica (7/8 Scale) here in
West of England.
This probably has most of what you want to confirm your feelings for
long exhaust etc.
!
Regards
Gerry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lyle Fast <lylefast(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | O-200-C-90 and exhaust/heat muffs |
Clif=2C
That is an amazing photo=2C just incredible. I am just up here in Sayward
=2C B.C.
Lyle
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gboothe5" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Size of the turtle deck stringers |
Yes, Mark, =BC=94 x 1=94 will work fine. Glad to see you making such
progress!
Gary
NX308MB
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark
Roberts
Sent: Monday, January 16, 2012 9:44 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Size of the turtle deck stringers
Plans seem to miss this one or I seemed to have missed it on the
plans...
They do seem SO complete :o)
(Heresy and sacrilege I am sure... Please no flames after all the list
has
endured recently :o)
Thickness and width of the turtle deck stringers?
I am thinking 1/4" x 1"?
Just came back in from a VERY cold barn after almost finishing the cuts
for
the fuse joining. Hopeing epoxy goes on tomorrow and gussets the day
after.
Then, by the end of the week... No, could it be? Adding the floor and
turning it upright so I can sit in it and make airplane noises! Ha! What
a
kid...
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | long SE-5 sidepipes |
Hello good people!
Seems like my mention of SE-5 type sidepipes sparked some discussion. So
far I agree with all the comments I"ve read.
Yes, they will add some weight, yes they will make entrance and egress a bit
more challenging if hot.
My calculations however, show that the weight of two thin sidepipes will
certainly not be more than one long "swiss" muffler down the bottom. As for
scalding oneself, (or passenger) I plan on wrapping the pipes next to each
"pit" on the left side (the proper side to mount a steed don't you know!)
with exhaust wrap.
So yeah, definitely not as efficient as short stacks, but I'm succumbing to
the "coolness factor".
And, if it is too heavy or doesn't work out in some way, I can eliminate
them and add a little downtube to the muffler and "Bob's your uncle!!"
Might make a nice hand warmer too. That's a plus!
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Riblet 612 cg range? |
| From: | "Chris Rusch" <rmdinfo(at)lakefield.net> |
Hi Rich,
If you look through the archives, there is a ton of debate about the Riblett airfoils.....I
kind of got trapped in the hype reading the possible advantages over
the Piet airfoil, and thats what i settled on. I dont know yet if i made a
mistake or not seeing there is only one Piet with a Riblett flying.
I did call a aircraft engineer friend of mine and he ran both the numbers for the
Piet and the Riblett and his results were comforting saying the Riblett does
show better all around characteristics that the Piet, but yet to be proven in
the real world. (other than Lowell)
And to answer my original reason for this post is the optiimum cg for the riblett
is around 16" aft and maxed out at 18" The calculation stated the plane will
fly much more stable with a FWD cg
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=364079#364079
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC AEROSPACE CORP]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Besides Pietenpols......this list has garnered me some |
amazing friends
When I first started on this list and building my Piet I never knew that it
would generate so many dear and meaningful
friendships. Truthfully those friendships have meant more to me than the
actual airplane and it was primarily thru this
list that those friendships were formed. Getting to know guys both on an
d off list and exchange ideas is so helpful but in some
cases you find you have very similar values and sense of humor and from the
re the friendships take off. Throw in what
kind of food you like and things like other hobbies you might have in commo
n and you almost forget what brought you together.
I've got a friend in Texas who I met thru the Pietenpol list and we haven't
talked about Pietenpols in probably two years or so
but we talk about everything else in daily life now as if we were brothers
or even closer than brothers. That's wild but that's the
lasting value of this side endeavor to build an inexpensive homebuilt that
everybody seems to love.
Brodhead used to be just a time for me to photograph and measure other Piet
enpols but then after meeting people on this
list you looked forward to meeting them. Doc and Dee Mosher have done a
great job at making sure we register at Brodhead
and get name tags. It's so cool to see a name on a shirt that matches so
meone on the list you've seen for a while- you get to
kibitz and see what the person is like in person. Really cool. I know I'
ve gone out of my way as well as others who are friends
of mine to meet when we can at places other than Brodhead in family travels
or business trips all because we have a common
interest in this little monoplane homebuilt from the 1930's.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Size of the turtle deck stringers |
| From: | "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca> |
Mark,
I recall going through the same process. I was sure I had seen the stringer dimensions
somewhere on the plans, yet, when I searched I simply could not find them.
However, if you go to the 1932 FGM article, there is a small detail that
spells out the size (see attachment). Your "guess" of 1/4" x 1" is right on the
money.
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=364083#364083
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/turtledeck_stringers_207.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC AEROSPACE CORP]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | friends across the hallway |
And of all places here at work Mike Perez moved here to my building from an
other area on the lab (we have about 3,000 folks here at Glenn Research Cen
ter)
and he started helping us out with our work in this test facility. We didn
't even know we shared the same aviation bug until after we worked together
for about six months and since then have become good friends---over what?
A Pietenpol Air Camper. Very cool stuff!
EAA's founder Paul Poberezeny has said over and over again that it's not ab
out airplanes it's about the people, the friendships that develop. He's ri
ght.
I have some wonderful friends thru this Pietenpol world-some talk with sout
hern accents, some are Canadian, one is a Calc professor, the other knows
Wisconsin like the back of his hand. Then there's this Jim Markle guy:).
He's a hoot!
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | long SE-5 sidepipes |
>From my expeience with my short "2 into 1" exhaust pipes on my A65, burning
yourself might be a problem if you reached down to the pipe in flight (why
would you do that?), but the pipes cool very rapidly upon engine shutdown.
I have to reach between the pipes on my exhaust manifold to check the oil
and it is usually cool enough to do so less than 5 minutes after engine
shutdown. As far back as the cockpits, it will cool even faster.
Are you considering stainless steel pipes, or carbon steel? If stainless,
they will need to be TIG welded, and I can pass on a tip that I learned
after ruining my stainless steel exhaust: When TIG welding, the argon gas
provides a shield around the weld to shield the molten metal from the air.
However, when welding something as thin as exhaust pipes (typically .035"
thick), the back side of the weld gets just as hot but is not shielded by
the argon cloud. In order to protect that area, the whole pipe must be
flooded with argon (you can test to see if there is enough argon by
inserting a lighted match into the pipe. If there's enough argon, the match
will instantly go out), and then plugging the openings to keep the argon
shield in place while welding the outside of the pipe. Does that make
sense?
My current exhaust system is made of carbon steel, which works fine but must
be kept painted (I find I have to remove it from the airplane, beadblast and
repaint it about every 3 years). I use clear VHT paint which makes it look
somewhat similar to stainless steel.
I listened to the YouTube of the SE-5 and couldn't tell much difference in
the sound from my 2-into-1 setup (listen here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DTmKApOPyw ). Maybe if the long pipes were
made much larger diameter they would resonate more. Certainly does look
cool!
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Douwe
Blumberg
Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2012 9:23 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: long SE-5 sidepipes
Hello good people!
Seems like my mention of SE-5 type sidepipes sparked some discussion. So
far I agree with all the comments I"ve read.
Yes, they will add some weight, yes they will make entrance and egress a bit
more challenging if hot.
My calculations however, show that the weight of two thin sidepipes will
certainly not be more than one long "swiss" muffler down the bottom. As for
scalding oneself, (or passenger) I plan on wrapping the pipes next to each
"pit" on the left side (the proper side to mount a steed don't you know!)
with exhaust wrap.
So yeah, definitely not as efficient as short stacks, but I'm succumbing to
the "coolness factor".
And, if it is too heavy or doesn't work out in some way, I can eliminate
them and add a little downtube to the muffler and "Bob's your uncle!!"
Might make a nice hand warmer too. That's a plus!
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | long SE-5 sidepipes |
Anyone ever consider having their exhaust pipes coated...like the Jet Hot coatings
used on cars?
Michael Perez
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Houston area Piets |
Got a bit more information. Turns out that the fellow I spoke with, Lou Landucci,
is thinking of buying Bill Rewey's airplane, NX17WR!
Thanks for any help you Pieters can offer Lou.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
Flying Squirrel N2069Z "Rocket"
Medford, OR
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: long SE-5 sidepipes |
| From: | "Chris Rusch" <rmdinfo(at)lakefield.net> |
I have my pipes jet hot coated and it really does keep the heat inside the pipe........ive
used that coating on a few different car projects and it definitely
reduced the under the hood temps.
I think it looks cool too.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=364096#364096
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: long SE-5 sidepipes |
I've got the Jet Hot on a car as well...may consider doing so on the plane. Not
there quite yet.
Michael Perez
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
-
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: long SE-5 sidepipes |
| From: | Ken Bickers <bickers.ken(at)gmail.com> |
There's a useful discussion of coatings on exhaust pipes that you may want
to read on William Wynne's FlyCorvair website. One of his observations is
that some of the coatings do such a good job at keeping the heat inside the
pipes that they no longer do an effective job of providing heat into the
carb heat box. Cheers, Ken
On Tue, Jan 17, 2012 at 10:21 AM, Michael Perez wrote:
> I've got the Jet Hot on a car as well...may consider doing so on the
> plane. Not there quite yet.
>
> Michael Perez
> Karetaker Aero
> www.karetakeraero.com
>
> -
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: long SE-5 sidepipes |
Thanks Ken. I never thought of the heat muff thing.
Michael Perez
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Stewart's Ekobond FYI |
Having limited experience with Ekobond and the fact that I have had no prev
ious experience with covering an airplane, I thought I would take the time
to share my thoughts on the stuff.
I only bought the quart size because I was only working on the tail pieces
and was not sure when I would be doing more fabric.-- The Ekobond has v
ery, very little odor. I was in my small shop with the windows shut and wor
king with the cement for hours at a time with no issues.- The cement work
s just as advertised...I was surprised at how little it took to really stic
k! The printed manual is good, but I got the most benefit from the instruct
ional videos. I had my I-pad out in the shop with me and would refer to the
videos often as I covered my first tail piece. I also used the videos to g
uide me through working radii, finishing tapes and using the iron to shrink
tapes. Following the instructions which uses slightly different techniques
depending on if you are doing an initial glue prior to laying the fabric,
gluing for fabric to fabric overlap or the final glue, it all went smoothly
and was easy to grasp the sequence of events. By the time my first
piece was complete and ready for paint, I had enough confidence to proceed
with the other pieces...assembly line fashion...with no video instruction
needed. It was that simple and that user friendly. If you follow the instru
ctions/videos, you can work with very little mess and very little glue on y
ourself.
Once finished I was very pleased with how the cement and procedures worked.
I am impressed with the results and the STRONG bond the cement provides.
As I said, I have never done this before so I can't compare this stuff with
any others. What I do know is that for a guy with zero experience, it was
a snap with the manual and videos on hand.
For those to come that will need to decide what to use to cement the fabric
to their wood structures, you may want to consider Ekobond.
Michael Perez
=0AKaretaker Aero
=0Awww.karetakeraero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott Knowlton " <flyingscott_k(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Stewart's Ekobond FYI |
Micheal,
What weight of fabric did you use and have you decided on your finishing system
(primer/sealer, UV and paint)?
Thanks for the product review.
Scott Knowlton
Burlington Ontario
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2012 19:09:55
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Stewart's Ekobond FYI
Having limited experience with Ekobond and the fact that I have had no previous
experience with covering an airplane, I thought I would take the time to share
my thoughts on the stuff.
I only bought the quart size because I was only working on the tail pieces and
was not sure when I would be doing more fabric. The Ekobond has very, very little
odor. I was in my small shop with the windows shut and working with the cement
for hours at a time with no issues. The cement works just as advertised...I
was surprised at how little it took to really stick! The printed manual is
good, but I got the most benefit from the instructional videos. I had my I-pad
out in the shop with me and would refer to the videos often as I covered my first
tail piece. I also used the videos to guide me through working radii, finishing
tapes and using the iron to shrink tapes. Following the instructions which
uses slightly different techniques depending on if you are doing an initial
glue prior to laying the fabric, gluing for fabric to fabric overlap or the
final glue, it all went smoothly and was easy to grasp the sequence of events.
By the time my first piece was complete and ready for paint, I had enough confidence
to proceed with the other pieces...assembly line fashion...with no video
instruction needed. It was that simple and that user friendly. If you follow
the instructions/videos, you can work with very little mess and very little
glue on yourself.
Once finished I was very pleased with how the cement and procedures worked. I am
impressed with the results and the STRONG bond the cement provides.
As I said, I have never done this before so I can't compare this stuff with any
others. What I do know is that for a guy with zero experience, it was a snap
with the manual and videos on hand.
For those to come that will need to decide what to use to cement the fabric to
their wood structures, you may want to consider Ekobond.
Michael Perez
Karetaker Aero
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Barry Davis" <bed(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Stewart's Ekobond FYI |
After covering all six Big Piets with the stuff, "we'll never go back".
Their paint is another story for another day, but the Ekobond is the stuff.
Barry
NX973BP
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael
Perez
Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2012 2:10 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Stewart's Ekobond FYI
Having limited experience with Ekobond and the fact that I have had no
previous experience with covering an airplane, I thought I would take the
time to share my thoughts on the stuff.
I only bought the quart size because I was only working on the tail pieces
and was not sure when I would be doing more fabric. The Ekobond has very,
very little odor. I was in my small shop with the windows shut and working
with the cement for hours at a time with no issues. The cement works just
as advertised...I was surprised at how little it took to really stick! The
printed manual is good, but I got the most benefit from the instructional
videos. I had my I-pad out in the shop with me and would refer to the videos
often as I covered my first tail piece. I also used the videos to guide me
through working radii, finishing tapes and using the iron to shrink tapes.
Following the instructions which uses slightly different techniques
depending on if you are doing an initial glue prior to laying the fabric,
gluing for fabric to fabric overlap or the final glue, it all went smoothly
and was easy to grasp the sequence of events. By the time my first piece was
complete and ready for paint, I had enough confidence to proceed with the
other pieces...assembly line fashion...with no video instruction needed. It
was that simple and that user friendly. If you follow the
instructions/videos, you can work with very little mess and very little glue
on yourself.
Once finished I was very pleased with how the cement and procedures worked.
January 08, 2012 - January 17, 2012
Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-ky