Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-kz
January 17, 2012 - February 01, 2012
I am impressed with the results and the STRONG bond the cement provides.
As I said, I have never done this before so I can't compare this stuff with
any others. What I do know is that for a guy with zero experience, it was a
snap with the manual and videos on hand.
For those to come that will need to decide what to use to cement the fabric
to their wood structures, you may want to consider Ekobond.
Michael Perez
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: friends across the hallway |
We like you to Mike!- It was your airplane that made Dad finally decide o
n a pietenpol.- We were looking to build an airplane for a couple years,
just not sure what.- He was thinking about a pietenpol, and after seeing
your piet at Oshkosh 99, (my 1st time) he said he was gonna build one.- 7
years later we finally flew ours.- This group of aviators, tinker-ers, a
nd do it yourself-ers is a great group of guys.- I to have met many good
people I consider friends, whom I would never know if not for that little a
irplane.- Since being initiated into the piet fraternity I have helped a
couple other newcomers get closer to there dream of flying a Pietenpol, and
hopefully they will each help a couple more, and this little airplane desi
gn will be flying around 100 years from now (probably with nuclear reactor
instead of a gasoline engine).-
-
Happy Building, Flying, And Fixing,
Shad
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: friends across the hallway |
We like you to Mike!- It was your airplane that made Dad finally decide o
n a pietenpol.- We were looking to build an airplane for a couple years,
just not sure what.- He was thinking about a pietenpol, and after seeing
your piet at Oshkosh 99, (my 1st time) he said he was gonna build one.- 7
years later we finally flew ours.- This group of aviators, tinker-ers, a
nd do it yourself-ers is a great group of guys.- I to have met many good
people I consider friends, whom I would never know if not for that little a
irplane.- Since being initiated into the piet fraternity I have helped a
couple other newcomers get closer to there dream of flying a Pietenpol, and
hopefully they will each help a couple more, and this little airplane desi
gn will be flying around 100 years from now (probably with nuclear reactor
instead of a gasoline engine).-
-
Happy Building, Flying, And Fixing,
Shad
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Stewart's Ekobond FYI |
| From: | helspersew(at)aol.com |
I decided to remove one of my tapes I was unhappy with. It was VERY difficu
lt to pull off. So the adhesion is good. Just make sure the excess glue is
wiped off immediately.
Otherwise it will leave telltale streaks.
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Sent: Tue, Jan 17, 2012 1:17 pm
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Stewart's Ekobond FYI
Having limited experience with Ekobond and the fact that I have had no prev
ious experience with covering an airplane, I thought I would take the time
to share my thoughts on the stuff.
I only bought the quart size because I was only working on the tail pieces
and was not sure when I would be doing more fabric. The Ekobond has very,
very little odor. I was in my small shop with the windows shut and working
with the cement for hours at a time with no issues. The cement works just
as advertised...I was surprised at how little it took to really stick! The
printed manual is good, but I got the most benefit from the instructional
videos. I had my I-pad out in the shop with me and would refer to the video
s often as I covered my first tail piece. I also used the videos to guide m
e through working radii, finishing tapes and using the iron to shrink tapes
. Following the instructions which uses slightly different techniques depen
ding on if you are doing an initial glue prior to laying the fabric, gluing
for fabric to fabric overlap or the final glue, it all went smoothly and w
as easy to grasp the sequence of events. By the time my first piece was com
plete and ready for paint, I had enough confidence to proceed with the othe
r pieces...assembly line fashion...with no video instruction needed. It was
that simple and that user friendly. If you follow the instructions/videos,
you can work with very little mess and very little glue on yourself.
Once finished I was very pleased with how the cement and procedures worked.
I am impressed with the results and the STRONG bond the cement provides.
As I said, I have never done this before so I can't compare this stuff with
any others. What I do know is that for a guy with zero experience, it was
a snap with the manual and videos on hand.
For those to come that will need to decide what to use to cement the fabric
to their wood structures, you may want to consider Ekobond.
Michael Perez
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
-= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum -
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-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
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-
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-
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-= Thank you for your generous support!
-= -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
-========================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Stewart's Ekobond FYI |
Bryce; Scott,
-
I am not using any system per say. I am using items from various sources.
-
My fabric is the lightweight, non certified 1.7oz stuff from Superflite @ $
6.49/yrd.
-
http://www.superflite.com/catalog/product_cat.php/subid=4/index.html
-
Note also that their fabric is 72" wide which fits our wings quite nicely.
- I also bought their 1.7oz tapes.
-
I made my own needle and used the flat rib stitch cord. Here is a link to a
video showing how I did my stitching. (Not my video...it is from Superflit
e.)
-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rneWclUSONw
-
I started-learning how to-stitch real time with the I-pad and this vide
o. Once I got the swing of it, I was on my way!
-
Once I got a feel for how the Ekobond works and got the procedures down, I
modified how I heat and iron the tapes as needed around inside and outside
curves.- I also chose to use the iron to stick down the edges of the pink
ed tape once the glue had set.-- I toyed with buying-straight edged t
apes...glad I did not. After cutting the fabric and seeing how it freys, th
e pinked tapes are the way to go. EVERY little fiber left behind will show
under the fabric and paint. The Stewart's videos talk a lot about removing
excess cement and NOT leaving a wet, defined glue ridge...because this will
show through the fabric and paint as well.-Even if you use pinking shear
s to cut, (I did) when you apply the cement and wipe, you may loosen up som
e fibers...even on the pinked tapes. What was cool is that the glue stiffen
s these fibers and with a good quality, small hair cutting scissors, (I fou
nd these to work the best for cutting the fibers..even the non glued
ones.) you can cut them fast and flush.- I used a razor blade to do all
my other cutting and slicing...like the slits in the patches around the con
trol horns.
-
Paint...Glidden exterior latex...satin.- I have attached a picture of the
label from the can with a few items highlighted, but you should read the w
hole thing.- (I left the picture full size so that it would be easy to re
ad.) It even talks about re-painting vinyl siding. I figure if it can hold
up on the outside of a house and stick to vinyl, I'd give it a whirl. (othe
r reasons too.)- I used a 2" cheap, $.50 brush and had at it. I wanted th
e brushed look...a personal preference...I thought the parts tuned out nice
.
-
We'll see how intelligent this move was once the plane is out flying and ha
s a few years time on it. I am confident the paint will hold up fine.
Michael Perez
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack" <jack(at)textors.com> |
| Subject: | Stewart's Ekobond FYI |
Michael great info, thanks but PLEASE clean up your shop!
Jack
DSM
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael
Perez
Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2012 6:33 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Stewart's Ekobond FYI
Bryce; Scott,
I am not using any system per say. I am using items from various sources.
My fabric is the lightweight, non certified 1.7oz stuff from Superflite @
$6.49/yrd.
http://www.superflite.com/catalog/product_cat.php/subid=4/index.html
Note also that their fabric is 72" wide which fits our wings quite nicely.
I also bought their 1.7oz tapes.
I made my own needle and used the flat rib stitch cord. Here is a link to a
video showing how I did my stitching. (Not my video...it is from
Superflite.)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rneWclUSONw
I started learning how to stitch real time with the I-pad and this video.
Once I got the swing of it, I was on my way!
Once I got a feel for how the Ekobond works and got the procedures down, I
modified how I heat and iron the tapes as needed around inside and outside
curves. I also chose to use the iron to stick down the edges of the pinked
tape once the glue had set. I toyed with buying straight edged
tapes...glad I did not. After cutting the fabric and seeing how it freys,
the pinked tapes are the way to go. EVERY little fiber left behind will show
under the fabric and paint. The Stewart's videos talk a lot about removing
excess cement and NOT leaving a wet, defined glue ridge...because this will
show through the fabric and paint as well. Even if you use pinking shears to
cut, (I did) when you apply the cement and wipe, you may loosen up some
fibers...even on the pinked tapes. What was cool is that the glue stiffens
these fibers and with a good quality, small hair cutting scissors, (I found
these to work the best for cutting the fibers..even the non glued ones.) you
can cut them fast and flush. I used a razor blade to do all my other
cutting and slicing...like the slits in the patches around the control
horns.
Paint...Glidden exterior latex...satin. I have attached a picture of the
label from the can with a few items highlighted, but you should read the
whole thing. (I left the picture full size so that it would be easy to
read.) It even talks about re-painting vinyl siding. I figure if it can hold
up on the outside of a house and stick to vinyl, I'd give it a whirl. (other
reasons too.) I used a 2" cheap, $.50 brush and had at it. I wanted the
brushed look...a personal preference...I thought the parts tuned out nice.
We'll see how intelligent this move was once the plane is out flying and has
a few years time on it. I am confident the paint will hold up fine.
Michael Perez
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com <http://www.karetakeraero.com/>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Clif Dawson" <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: O-200-C-90 and exhaust/heat muffs |
Gee, you're only 5 1/2 hrs away from me here in
the infamous Kitsilano! :-)
Where you going to fly out of?
Clif
Clif,
That is an amazing photo, just incredible. I am just up here in
Sayward, B.C.
Lyle
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TOM MICHELLE BRANT <tmbrant(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | carlson aircraft aluminum struts |
Anyone using the Carlson Aircraft Aluminum struts? I'm taking a look at th
em pretty seriously.. Thinking the large size is adequate - they have what
they're calling a "NEW" Heavy Duty size which seems overkill for a Piet.
Anyone using them - anyone flying with them??? I think I read about Larry
Williams using them. Just curious which size he chose and what the fitting
s might look like. Of course I can always check out his plane at Brodhead
- assuming he'll be there again.
Tom Brant
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: carlson aircraft aluminum struts |
| From: | helspersew(at)aol.com |
Hi Tom,
I copied Larry Williams (Top or Head Curmudgeon) and used the small Carlson
wing struts. Go to westcoastpiet.com, where there are three photos to look
at. The inserts were made from 7075 aluminum alloy pieces I got from Mcmas
ter-Carr.
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN
-----Original Message-----
From: TOM MICHELLE BRANT <tmbrant(at)msn.com>
Sent: Tue, Jan 17, 2012 10:59 pm
Subject: Pietenpol-List: carlson aircraft aluminum struts
Anyone using the Carlson Aircraft Aluminum struts? I'm taking a look at th
em pretty seriously.. Thinking the large size is adequate - they have what
they're calling a "NEW" Heavy Duty size which seems overkill for a Piet.
Anyone using them - anyone flying with them??? I think I read about Larry
Williams using them. Just curious which size he chose and what the fitting
s might look like. Of course I can always check out his plane at Brodhead
- assuming he'll be there again.
Tom Brant
-= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum -
-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
-= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
-= Photoshare, and much much more:
-
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
-
-========================
-= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
-= Same great content also available via the Web Forums!
-
-= --> http://forums.matronics.com
-
-========================
-= - List Contribution Web Site -
-= Thank you for your generous support!
-= -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
-========================
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: carlson aircraft aluminum struts |
| From: | Greg Bacon <gbacon67(at)gmail.com> |
Dan,
I'm doing the same thing for the Mtn Piet wing rebuild. Do you have any
pics of your jury strut to lift strut connection?
Thanks,
Greg Bacon
Prairie Home, MO
On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 7:20 AM, wrote:
> Hi Tom,
>
> I copied Larry Williams (Top or Head Curmudgeon) and used the small
> Carlson wing struts. Go to westcoastpiet.com, where there are three
> photos to look at. The inserts were made from 7075 aluminum alloy pieces I
> got from Mcmaster-Carr.
>
> Dan Helsper
> Puryear, TN
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: TOM MICHELLE BRANT <tmbrant(at)msn.com>
> To: pietenpol-list
> Sent: Tue, Jan 17, 2012 10:59 pm
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: carlson aircraft aluminum struts
>
> Anyone using the Carlson Aircraft Aluminum struts? I'm taking a look at
> them pretty seriously.. Thinking the large size is adequate - they have
> what they're calling a "NEW" Heavy Duty size which seems overkill for a
> Piet. Anyone using them - anyone flying with them??? I think I read about
> Larry Williams using them. Just curious which size he chose and what the
> fittings might look like. Of course I can always check out his plane at
> Brodhead - assuming he'll be there again.
>
> Tom Brant
>
> *
>
> " target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> p://forums.matronics.com
> blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> *
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
--
Greg Bacon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matthijs de Groot <getijsem(at)zonnet.nl> |
| Subject: | do you guys doubt your work somtimes? |
Hi I'm working on the tail section.(just need to make the fin and than
its done)
I'm building very neat, exactly following the plans.
But when I think that these parts are gone steer my hole plane they
look a bit flimsy.
And will i ever finish there is just so much to do.
I love the work so far but did these thoughts come up when you guys
where building.
Matthijs from the Netherlands.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: do you guys doubt your work somtimes? |
| From: | Andrew Eldredge <andrew.eldredge(at)gmail.com> |
A great deal of the structure is in the bracing wires. By the time you get
everything wired up, it will seem overdone.
Andrew
On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 9:15 AM, Matthijs de Groot wrote:
> getijsem(at)zonnet.nl>
>
> Hi I'm working on the tail section.(just need to make the fin and than its
> done)
> I'm building very neat, exactly following the plans.
> But when I think that these parts are gone steer my hole plane they look a
> bit flimsy.
> And will i ever finish there is just so much to do.
> I love the work so far but did these thoughts come up when you guys where
> building.
>
> Matthijs from the Netherlands.
>
>
--
Andrew Eldredge
Provo, UT
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | do you guys doubt your work somtimes? |
Hi Matthijs,
I'm sure everybody has doubts at one point or another. Just remember,
particularly with the tail pieces, that they ARE very flimsy until they are
installed and braced with the bracing wire. Even then, they are just strong
enough for flight loads. Be wary of small children using them as climbing
exercises. Trust the design - it has proven itself to be plenty strong
enough for over 80 years.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Matthijs de
Groot
Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2012 11:15 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: do you guys doubt your work somtimes?
Hi I'm working on the tail section.(just need to make the fin and than
its done)
I'm building very neat, exactly following the plans.
But when I think that these parts are gone steer my hole plane they
look a bit flimsy.
And will i ever finish there is just so much to do.
I love the work so far but did these thoughts come up when you guys
where building.
Matthijs from the Netherlands.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: do you guys doubt your work somtimes? |
| From: | "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com> |
Those thoughts can cripple you into not ever getting done... it has me for about
18 years.
It's especially tough because of the mixed information. I specifically chose a
Piet because it's like the Spanish language, very few exceptions. "Just stick
to the plans" seems to be the norm, and they are comparatively VERY complete.
Still, when you ask a question, you very often get quite a variance in answers.
I'm currently rereading the first ten years of BPA newsletters, and in the FIRST
ONE, it says to stick to the plans... except...
It's a necessary evil, times have changed since it was designed. 4130 over 1020
steel, probably a good idea. T-88 or resorcinol instead of casein, definitely!
Etc.
I believe the trick is to find a "method" that gets you past that. Either trusting
what you hear here, a local knowledgeable builder, an A and P friend, whatever.
What has done it for me is buying an entire Piet, which has finally gotten
me started on building in earnest. Also, I'm spending a lot of time with
A and P's restoring and maintaining vintage planes.
I believe the worst you could do is blindly "improving". Many issues come from
what is NECESSARY for modernization. Casein glue being a good case in point.
Hard wires are a good example. While they're still fine, finding wire isn't
too bad, but finding some help in fabricating them, a different matter, so modernizing
for that reason might be necessary.
Not for a lack of trying to gather good info, I have hand written letters from
Rudolf, Henderson, Kapler, Hoopman, etc, I don't have the Bingelis books yet.
I think they go a long way putting your mind at ease on what is "normal" in aircraft
construction. Working on that now. I believe comprehensive education
is the best that you can do to put your mind at ease!
Tools
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=364209#364209
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ben Charvet <bencharvet(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: do you guys doubt your work somtimes? |
Maybe I am just a late night worrier, but every time I made something
I'd ask myself, if this fails will it kill me? Usually around 3 AM I'd
wake up and think of what I'd done the previous day. You are right,
there is a lot to do. Just keep on working at it, play with it every
day, and before you know it you will be finished. Be sure to have a
tech counselor from your local EAA chapter look at it once in a while if
you have doubts.
Now that mine is finished and has 100 hours or so on it, I'm still
amazed when I'm putting along at 500 feet, look down the wing at all
those ribs, rib stitches, wires, fittings, etc, and try to remember that
I built every piece myself.
I came across my page on West Coast Piet the other day, and there is a
posting at this link of my pictures, and my narrative of the first
flight, 2 years ago. It might encourage you...FWIW
http://westcoastpiet.com/images/Ben%20Charvet/pictures.htm
Ben Charvet
Titusville, Fl
Still flying in shirtsleeves in January
On 1/18/2012 11:15 AM, Matthijs de Groot wrote:
>
>
> Hi I'm working on the tail section.(just need to make the fin and than
> its done)
> I'm building very neat, exactly following the plans.
> But when I think that these parts are gone steer my hole plane they
> look a bit flimsy.
> And will i ever finish there is just so much to do.
> I love the work so far but did these thoughts come up when you guys
> where building.
>
> Matthijs from the Netherlands.
>
>
--
Ben Charvet, PharmD
Staff Pharmacist
Parrish Medical center
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Speaking of "improvements", or retrogrades... tail |
| From: | "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com> |
I'm helping restore a 1919 design, a Standard J-1 biplane. It's got a neat tail
skid I imagine was pretty normal for its time.
It's got a short post where most tail skids or wheels would mount. That post has
a welded bracket that connects the tailskid itself, merely a piece of wood
about 1 1/4" square, about a foot and a half long, that pivots on that short post
(about midway). The bottom end has a skid, the top end has a bungee connected
to the bottom of the plane.
Basically a see saw. The unstretched position angles it down at about a 45 degree
angle.
The advantage is twofold. First, the "spring" comes from bungee cord, which is
lighter. Second, it's REALLY cool looking and fits the genre of the plane perfectly.
It has one main bungee and two small ones that recenter it (as it has allowance
for side to side travel to accommodate turns).
A tail wheel could be mounted as easily as a skid plate. Has anyone seen one on
a Piet? Anyone have any experience with them at all?
Any interest? I can get pictures.
Tools
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=364213#364213
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC AEROSPACE CORP]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | tailfeather flimsy feeling---that's perfect Matthijs, |
they are flimsy!
Not to worry Matthijs, that is how the tailfeathers feel--like they are not
adequate to steer and stabilize the entire airplane but when you attach all of
the brace cables back there the whole thing becomes VERY strong. Same with the
wood/Jenny type landing gear--it flops around until you install the X-brace cables
and the it becomes a bridge. (If it can take my abusive landings especially.)
One thing that may or may not be on the plans (I forget now) are to put wood blocks
in between all of the tailfeather cap and bottom strips of wood to keep them apart
while you rib stitch the fabric to them, otherwise you could pull the pieces together
and break them. I thin these blocks are shown on the plans. Doesn't take much
but they are important.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC AEROSPACE CORP]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | how to reinforce stringers so they don't bend when you |
tighten your fabric
Here's a good use for scrap capstrip material. In addition to the normal
supports for your turtledeck
stringers it's not a bad idea to throw in some T-88'ed (or whatever glue y
ou're using) capstrips in between
the stringers. Fabric is powerful when heat shrunk and can make things mo
ve and distort unless reinforced
well.
[cid:image003.jpg(at)01CCD5E6.165C3DC0]
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Barry Davis" <bed(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | carlson aircraft aluminum struts |
I just sent this sketch to Gardiner Mason for reference. We used the large,
not the new extra heavy.
Barry Davis
NX973BP
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of TOM MICHELLE
BRANT
Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2012 11:56 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: carlson aircraft aluminum struts
Anyone using the Carlson Aircraft Aluminum struts? I'm taking a look at
them pretty seriously.. Thinking the large size is adequate - they have
what they're calling a "NEW" Heavy Duty size which seems overkill for a
Piet. Anyone using them - anyone flying with them??? I think I read about
Larry Williams using them. Just curious which size he chose and what the
fittings might look like. Of course I can always check out his plane at
Brodhead - assuming he'll be there again.
Tom Brant
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: carlson aircraft aluminum struts |
| From: | helspersew(at)aol.com |
Tom,
On the bottom of my struts are the same 7075 insert, drilled and threaded t
o accept a Piper J-3 fork end.
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN
-----Original Message-----
From: TOM MICHELLE BRANT <tmbrant(at)msn.com>
Sent: Tue, Jan 17, 2012 10:59 pm
Subject: Pietenpol-List: carlson aircraft aluminum struts
Anyone using the Carlson Aircraft Aluminum struts? I'm taking a look at th
em pretty seriously.. Thinking the large size is adequate - they have what
they're calling a "NEW" Heavy Duty size which seems overkill for a Piet.
Anyone using them - anyone flying with them??? I think I read about Larry
Williams using them. Just curious which size he chose and what the fitting
s might look like. Of course I can always check out his plane at Brodhead
- assuming he'll be there again.
Tom Brant
-= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum -
-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
-= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
-= Photoshare, and much much more:
-
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
-
-========================
-= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
-= Same great content also available via the Web Forums!
-
-= --> http://forums.matronics.com
-
-========================
-= - List Contribution Web Site -
-= Thank you for your generous support!
-= -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
-========================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC AEROSPACE CORP]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | 8 minute video segment from EAA on the Pietenpol Air Camper |
And the guy who started this list way back-Steve Eldredge from Utah who fle
w his new plane all the
way to Oshkosh to join us in 1999 when we gathered for the 70th anniversary
of the design.
http://www.eaavideo.org/video.aspx?v=1373284259
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | airlion <airlion(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: carlson aircraft aluminum struts |
Dan, did you use any kind of coating for between the fork end and the aluminium
strut for corosion protection? Gardiner
________________________________
From: "helspersew(at)aol.com" <helspersew(at)aol.com>
Sent: Wed, January 18, 2012 4:04:21 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: carlson aircraft aluminum struts
Tom,
On the bottom of my struts are the same 7075 insert, drilled and threaded to
accept a Piper J-3 fork end.
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN
-----Original Message-----
From: TOM MICHELLE BRANT <tmbrant(at)msn.com>
Sent: Tue, Jan 17, 2012 10:59 pm
Subject: Pietenpol-List: carlson aircraft aluminum struts
Anyone using the Carlson Aircraft Aluminum struts? I'm taking a look at them
pretty seriously.. Thinking the large size is adequate - they have what they're
calling a "NEW" Heavy Duty size which seems overkill for a Piet. Anyone using
them - anyone flying with them??? I think I read about Larry Williams using
them. Just curious which size he chose and what the fittings might look like.
Of course I can always check out his plane at Brodhead - assuming he'll be there
again.
Tom Brant
" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
p://forums.matronics.com blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TOM MICHELLE BRANT <tmbrant(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | carlson aircraft aluminum struts |
I should have clarrified - the "small" struts are about 2.5" x 1" and the "
large" struts are about 3 1/8" x 1 1/4". Are you sure Larry used the small
ones?? I guess the strength is there..
Tom B.
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: carlson aircraft aluminum struts
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
Date: Wed=2C 18 Jan 2012 08:20:56 -0500
Hi Tom=2C
I copied Larry Williams (Top or Head Curmudgeon) and used the small Carlson
wing struts. Go to westcoastpiet.com=2C where there are three photos to lo
ok at. The inserts were made from 7075 aluminum alloy pieces I got from Mcm
aster-Carr.
Dan Helsper
Puryear=2C TN
-----Original Message-----
From: TOM MICHELLE BRANT <tmbrant(at)msn.com>
Sent: Tue=2C Jan 17=2C 2012 10:59 pm
Subject: Pietenpol-List: carlson aircraft aluminum struts
Anyone using the Carlson Aircraft Aluminum struts? I'm taking a look at th
em pretty seriously.. Thinking the large size is adequate - they have what
they're calling a "NEW" Heavy Duty size which seems overkill for a Piet.
Anyone using them - anyone flying with them??? I think I read about Larry
Williams using them. Just curious which size he chose and what the fitting
s might look like. Of course I can always check out his plane at Brodhead
- assuming he'll be there again.
Tom Brant
" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
p://forums.matronics.com
blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: tailfeather flimsy feeling---that's perfect Matthijs, |
they a
| From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov wrote:
> One thing that may or may not be on the plans (I forget now) are to put wood
blocks in between all of the tailfeather cap and bottom strips of wood to keep
them apart while you rib stitch the fabric to them, otherwise you could pull
the pieces together and break them. I thin these blocks are shown on the plans.
Doesn't take much but they are important.
Thanks for reminding us of that Mike. I saw these on Jim's tail pieces, but I
had forgot about making them for mine until I saw your note.
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=364262#364262
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: I cannot not build this plane |
| From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
What Jim said... I too recommend Chuck's videos. Yes, there are two... building
AND flying... both are informative and inspirational.
Come see us, and try to get up to Brodhead this year too.
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=364263#364263
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris" <catdesigns(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | 8 minute video segment from EAA on the Pietenpol Air |
Camper
Thanks Mike. This brings back memories. Speaking of Steve Eldredge, does
any of the old timers have a copy of his trip report he wrote about flying
to Brodhead and Oshkosh? It is a great story and I would love to read it
again. Actually all of us builders should read it often as it captures the
spirit of why we are building and why we need to get our plane finished. It
used to be on his web page which is now long gone.
Chris
Sacramento, Ca
Westcoastpiet.com
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cuy, Michael
D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC AEROSPACE CORP]
Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2012 3:41 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: 8 minute video segment from EAA on the Pietenpol
Air Camper
And the guy who started this list way back-Steve Eldredge from Utah who flew
his new plane all the
way to Oshkosh to join us in 1999 when we gathered for the 70th anniversary
of the design.
http://www.eaavideo.org/video.aspx?v=1373284259
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 8 minute video segment from EAA on the Pietenpol Air |
Camper
| From: | "aerocarjake" <flight.jake(at)gmail.com> |
Thanks Mike..... I had not seen this before and I really enjoyed it.
The video was a nice treat after another day in the shop. (It snowed several inches
so I had to stay home from work.... and work on the Piet)
Well SOMEBODY'S got to do it...:-)
--------
Jake Schultz - curator,
Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=364269#364269
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: how to reinforce stringers so they don't bend when |
you tight
| From: | "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca> |
As an example of the strength of shrinking fabric, and the effect on the turtledeck
stringers, check out this photo. And it was even more obvious in person than
it appears in this photo. Best install the spacers like Mike suggested, AND
be careful when covering. Don't get that fabric too tight.
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=364272#364272
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/wavy_stringers_997.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: carlson aircraft aluminum struts |
| From: | helspersew(at)aol.com |
Gardiner,
Didn't think I needed any. I believe the fork is cad plated. Wouldn't it be
the same as an AN bolt up against aluminum?
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN
-----Original Message-----
From: airlion <airlion(at)bellsouth.net>
Sent: Wed, Jan 18, 2012 6:10 pm
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: carlson aircraft aluminum struts
Dan, did you use any kind of coating for between the fork end and the alumi
nium strut for corosion protection? Gardiner
From: "helspersew(at)aol.com" <helspersew(at)aol.com>
Sent: Wed, January 18, 2012 4:04:21 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: carlson aircraft aluminum struts
Tom,
On the bottom of my struts are the same 7075 insert, drilled and threaded t
o accept a Piper J-3 fork end.
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN
-----Original Message-----
From: TOM MICHELLE BRANT <tmbrant(at)msn.com>
Sent: Tue, Jan 17, 2012 10:59 pm
Subject: Pietenpol-List: carlson aircraft aluminum struts
Anyone using the Carlson Aircraft Aluminum struts? I'm taking a look at th
em pretty seriously.. Thinking the large size is adequate - they have what
they're calling a "NEW" Heavy Duty size which seems overkill for a Piet.
Anyone using them - anyone flying with them??? I think I read about Larry
Williams using them. Just curious which size he chose and what the fitting
s might look like. Of course I can always check out his plane at Brodhead
- assuming he'll be there again.
Tom Brant
" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
://forums.matronics.com
lank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
-= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum -
-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
-= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
-= Photoshare, and much much more:
-
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
-
-========================
-= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
-= Same great content also available via the Web Forums!
-
-= --> http://forums.matronics.com
-
-========================
-= - List Contribution Web Site -
-= Thank you for your generous support!
-= -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
-========================
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: carlson aircraft aluminum struts |
| From: | helspersew(at)aol.com |
Tom,
Well now I am doubting myself. But I am almost 100% sure. You could email t
he Top Cumudgeon himself :O). lnawms(at)yahoo.com And while you do, you might
meekish and sheepishly just mention to him that Bernerd DID NOT use alumin
um struts!
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN
-----Original Message-----
From: TOM MICHELLE BRANT <tmbrant(at)msn.com>
Sent: Wed, Jan 18, 2012 8:26 pm
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: carlson aircraft aluminum struts
I should have clarrified - the "small" struts are about 2.5" x 1" and the "
large" struts are about 3 1/8" x 1 1/4". Are you sure Larry used the small
ones?? I guess the strength is there..
Tom B.
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: carlson aircraft aluminum struts
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2012 08:20:56 -0500
Hi Tom,
I copied Larry Williams (Top or Head Curmudgeon) and used the small Carlson
wing struts. Go to westcoastpiet.com, where there are three photos to look
at. The inserts were made from 7075 aluminum alloy pieces I got from Mcmas
ter-Carr.
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN
-----Original Message-----
From: TOM MICHELLE BRANT <tmbrant(at)msn.com>
Sent: Tue, Jan 17, 2012 10:59 pm
Subject: Pietenpol-List: carlson aircraft aluminum struts
Anyone using the Carlson Aircraft Aluminum struts? I'm taking a look at th
em pretty seriously.. Thinking the large size is adequate - they have what
they're calling a "NEW" Heavy Duty size which seems overkill for a Piet.
Anyone using them - anyone flying with them??? I think I read about Larry
Williams using them. Just curious which size he chose and what the fitting
s might look like. Of course I can always check out his plane at Brodhead
- assuming he'll be there again.
Tom Brant
" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
://forums.matronics.com
lank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
ttp://forums.matronics.com
"_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
-= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum -
-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
-= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
-= Photoshare, and much much more:
-
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
-
-========================
-= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
-= Same great content also available via the Web Forums!
-
-= --> http://forums.matronics.com
-
-========================
-= - List Contribution Web Site -
-= Thank you for your generous support!
-= -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
-========================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark Stanley" <mmrally(at)nifty.com> |
| Subject: | Re: how to reinforce stringers so they don't bend |
when you tight
Ouch!
Is the fabric 1.7 ounce?
Thanks for posting the shot.
Mark Stanley
Japan
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Church
Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2012 8:21 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: how to reinforce stringers so they don't bend
when you tight
As an example of the strength of shrinking fabric, and the effect on the
turtledeck stringers, check out this photo. And it was even more obvious in
person than it appears in this photo. Best install the spacers like Mike
suggested, AND be careful when covering. Don't get that fabric too tight.
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=364272#364272
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/wavy_stringers_997.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: how to reinforce stringers so they don't bend when |
you tight
| From: | "womenfly2" <Love2Fly.KAP(at)gmail.com> |
Never had this issue. All depends on how tight you shrink the fabric.
Seems most over shrink it, like on the turtle deck, fuselage in general. If done
correctly you would not have to do what you are proposing. Follow the plans
and it works.
.... over kill.
--------
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=364279#364279
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark Stanley" <mmrally(at)nifty.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 8 minute video segment from EAA on the Pietenpol Air |
Camper
Hi Mike,
Thanks for posting that, very enjoyable video.
Mark Stanley
Japan
From: Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC AEROSPACE CORP]
Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2012 8:41 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: 8 minute video segment from EAA on the
Pietenpol Air Camper
And the guy who started this list way back=94Steve Eldredge from
Utah who flew his new plane all the
way to Oshkosh to join us in 1999 when we gathered for the 70th
anniversary of the design.
http://www.eaavideo.org/video.aspx?v=1373284259
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "C N Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> |
| Subject: | Re: how to reinforce stringers so they don't bend |
when you tight
All the "dacron" instructions say to do the final shrinking at 350 degrees
on the iron. Are you saying this is too much? Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: "womenfly2" <Love2Fly.KAP(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2012 8:05 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: how to reinforce stringers so they don't bend
when you tight
>
> Never had this issue. All depends on how tight you shrink the fabric.
>
> Seems most over shrink it, like on the turtle deck, fuselage in general.
> If done correctly you would not have to do what you are proposing. Follow
> the plans and it works.
>
> .... over kill.
>
> --------
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=364279#364279
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: how to reinforce stringers so they don't bend |
when you tight
Y'all are worrying too much again. We don't know anything about the
Pietenpol in that picture. It may have had very thin stringers, or it may
have been covered with cotton which was glued on too tight, and then over
time the dope tautened more than anticipated (butyrate dope continues to
shrink for years). If you use dacron, follow the manufacturer's guidelines
for shrinking - not the advice you think you hear on this list.
Mike Cuy gave good advice to add little pieces between the stringers. It
takes little time and adds almost no weight. I did it on mine, per his
advice. Was it necessary? The only way to know for sure would be to add
the pieces on one side but not the other and see if the side without
reinforcement warped. I wasn't that curious.
You can see these pieces in this photo:
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of C N Campbell
Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2012 8:28 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: how to reinforce stringers so they don't
bend when you tight
All the "dacron" instructions say to do the final shrinking at 350 degrees
on the iron. Are you saying this is too much? Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: "womenfly2" <Love2Fly.KAP(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2012 8:05 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: how to reinforce stringers so they don't bend
when you tight
>
> Never had this issue. All depends on how tight you shrink the fabric.
>
> Seems most over shrink it, like on the turtle deck, fuselage in general.
> If done correctly you would not have to do what you are proposing. Follow
> the plans and it works.
>
> .... over kill.
>
> --------
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=364279#364279
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: how to reinforce stringers so they don't bend when |
you tight
| From: | "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca> |
Jack is right about not knowing the specifics of the plane in the photo. As I recall
from when I took the photo several years ago, very little of that Air Camper
was built "to the plans". For instance, the wings are actually from a different
aircraft, the cabane strut system is completely different, the aileron
control cable system was redesigned, there was a beefy passenger door, etc., so
I would not be surprised if the turtledeck was also "improved". In fact, I'd
be surprised if it wasn't.
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=364291#364291
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: carlson aircraft aluminum struts |
ACS sells Aeronca forks for $64.70 each. They come pre-coated with a black grease.
I'm using Carlson's aluminum struts, fabricated 7075 inserts and the above
forks.
Michael Perez
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Mountain Piet rebuild |
Hey Greg,
Haven't heard much detail about your Mountain Piet rebuild. Saw the plane
at it's one and only Brodhead appearance and was struck by the incredible
workmanship.
How is she coming? And are you keeping the Subaru or going to something
else??
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Do we doubt our work? |
Hey Matthijs!
Scratch building an airplane from these plans is a monumental achievement in
my opinion. Percentage wise, VERY few people have ever done it and these
days, even less are doing it. It takes a unique kind of person, maybe a
dreamer with a willingness to learn many skills and an ability to commit,
but above all it takes a unique kind of persistence that is driven by a
vision of something larger worth striving for.
I feel that bringing to life to one of Pietenpol's planes is not only one of
the highlights of my life, but also a blessing to everyone who will ever see
or fly in it because it is like a time capsule and historic artifact all
wrapped up in one.
Yes it is a long journey, and one I struggle with every day now that I'm
actually rebuilding mine after an incident that set me back two years now.
YES I ABSOLUTELY STRUGGLE WHEN I THINK ABOUT ALL THE THINGS LEFT TO DO, BUT
WHILE I STRUGGLE, I WORK. AND MOVE THE PROJECT FORWARD EVERY DAY. BUT. I
KNOW, without a shadow of a doubt that my persistence will pay off and when
I'm flying her through the blue skies, over the green pastures that I will
not feel badly about the time spent building her, but I will look back
fondly and proudly that I stuck with it.
A friend once told me about projects like this "Touch something on it every
day". That one thought has helped me a lot.
Where in the Netherlands are you? My wife and I will be visiting family
next September.
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 8 minute video segment from EAA on the Pietenpol |
Air Camper
| From: | Andrew Eldredge <andrew.eldredge(at)gmail.com> |
Steve should be over at my house this evening (working on getting NX7229R
back in service, incidentally) I've asked him if he retained a copy of
that and his build log, If I can get him to find it, I'll put it back up
online.
--
Andrew Eldredge
Provo, UT
On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 6:23 AM, Mark Stanley wrote:
> Hi Mike,
>
> Thanks for posting that, very enjoyable video.
>
> Mark Stanley
> Japan
>
> *From:* Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC AEROSPACE CORP]<michael.d.cuy@na
sa.gov>
> *Sent:* Thursday, January 19, 2012 8:41 AM
> *To:* pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: 8 minute video segment from EAA on the
> Pietenpol Air Camper
>
>
> And the guy who started this list way back=97Steve Eldredge from Utah who
> flew his new plane all the****
>
> way to Oshkosh to join us in 1999 when we gathered for the 70thanniversar
y of the design.
> ****
>
> ****
>
> http://www.eaavideo.org/video.aspx?v=1373284259****
>
> ****
>
> Mike C.****
>
> ****
>
> *
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
*
>
> *
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: tailfeather flimsy feeling---that's perfect Matthijs, |
they are flimsy!
These spacer blocks are not on the plans. Mike C. had told me about adding these
blocks for the reasons he described. Having just finished covering my tail pieces,
I can say that they work just fine. I did not loose any curved shape by
shrinking the fabric.
Michael Perez
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "C N Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> |
| Subject: | Re: how to reinforce stringers so they don't bend |
when you tight
Jack, you wouldn't put those pieces between stringers high enough for
the fabric to touch, right? C
----- Original Message -----
From: Jack Phillips
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2012 9:27 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: how to reinforce stringers so they
don't bend when you tight
Y'all are worrying too much again. We don't know anything about the
Pietenpol in that picture. It may have had very thin stringers, or it
may have been covered with cotton which was glued on too tight, and then
over time the dope tautened more than anticipated (butyrate dope
continues to shrink for years). If you use dacron, follow the
manufacturer's guidelines for shrinking - not the advice you think you
hear on this list.
Mike Cuy gave good advice to add little pieces between the stringers.
It takes little time and adds almost no weight. I did it on mine, per
his advice. Was it necessary? The only way to know for sure would be
to add the pieces on one side but not the other and see if the side
without reinforcement warped. I wasn't that curious.
You can see these pieces in this photo:
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of C N
Campbell
Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2012 8:28 AM
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: how to reinforce stringers so they
don't bend when you tight
All the "dacron" instructions say to do the final shrinking at 350
degrees
on the iron. Are you saying this is too much? Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: "womenfly2" <Love2Fly.KAP(at)gmail.com>
To:
Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2012 8:05 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: how to reinforce stringers so they don't
bend
when you tight
>
> Never had this issue. All depends on how tight you shrink the
fabric.
>
> Seems most over shrink it, like on the turtle deck, fuselage in
general.
> If done correctly you would not have to do what you are proposing.
Follow
> the plans and it works.
>
> .... over kill.
>
> --------
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=364279#364279
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "C N Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> |
| Subject: | Re: how to reinforce stringers so they don't bend |
when you tight
Looks to me like the plane might be a modified GN-1. C
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca>
Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2012 10:31 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: how to reinforce stringers so they don't bend
when you tight
>
>
> Jack is right about not knowing the specifics of the plane in the photo.
> As I recall from when I took the photo several years ago, very little of
> that Air Camper was built "to the plans". For instance, the wings are
> actually from a different aircraft, the cabane strut system is completely
> different, the aileron control cable system was redesigned, there was a
> beefy passenger door, etc., so I would not be surprised if the turtledeck
> was also "improved". In fact, I'd be surprised if it wasn't.
>
> Bill C.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=364291#364291
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC AEROSPACE CORP]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | little stringer tips--little investment, lots of insurance--great |
photo
Excellent illustration Jack of those little pieces you used as well on you
r stringers. Like Jack said, it takes little time and adds almost
no weight and they well worthwhile, especially if you have thin stringers.
Jack's photo also shows those great little blocks on the tailsurfaces (vert
stab) that keep those
wood strips from bending when you rib stitch.
Mike C.
[cid:image001.png(at)01CCD6AC.92F1C960]
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: how to reinforce stringers so they don't bend |
when you tight
Correct. They are perhaps 3/8" below the tops of the stringers. Also in
this picture I notice that you can see the little blocks in the tail ribs
that Mike Cuy mentioned as well.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of C N Campbell
Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2012 12:50 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: how to reinforce stringers so they don't
bend when you tight
Jack, you wouldn't put those pieces between stringers high enough for the
fabric to touch, right? C
----- Original Message -----
From: Jack <mailto:pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> Phillips
Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2012 9:27 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: how to reinforce stringers so they don't
bend when you tight
Y'all are worrying too much again. We don't know anything about the
Pietenpol in that picture. It may have had very thin stringers, or it may
have been covered with cotton which was glued on too tight, and then over
time the dope tautened more than anticipated (butyrate dope continues to
shrink for years). If you use dacron, follow the manufacturer's guidelines
for shrinking - not the advice you think you hear on this list.
Mike Cuy gave good advice to add little pieces between the stringers. It
takes little time and adds almost no weight. I did it on mine, per his
advice. Was it necessary? The only way to know for sure would be to add
the pieces on one side but not the other and see if the side without
reinforcement warped. I wasn't that curious.
You can see these pieces in this photo:
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of C N Campbell
Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2012 8:28 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: how to reinforce stringers so they don't
bend when you tight
All the "dacron" instructions say to do the final shrinking at 350 degrees
on the iron. Are you saying this is too much? Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: "womenfly2" <Love2Fly.KAP(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2012 8:05 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: how to reinforce stringers so they don't bend
when you tight
>
> Never had this issue. All depends on how tight you shrink the fabric.
>
> Seems most over shrink it, like on the turtle deck, fuselage in general.
> If done correctly you would not have to do what you are proposing. Follow
> the plans and it works.
>
> .... over kill.
>
> --------
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=364279#364279
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Bugs in Piet yellow |
| From: | "899PM" <rockriverrifle(at)hotmail.com> |
There absolutely HAS to be future name for Jerry's Piet hiding in that second pic!
--------
PAPA MIKE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=364314#364314
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Photos of jury strut fittings on aluminum struts |
| From: | helspersew(at)aol.com |
Greg,
I finally found these pics you requested. This set-up worked well for me.
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Bugs in Piet yellow |
| From: | "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org> |
I see more lift
--------
Scott Liefeld
Flying N11MS since March 1972
Steel Tube
C-85-12
Wire Wheels
Brodhead in 1996
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=364318#364318
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Photos of jury strut fittings on aluminum struts |
| From: | "pineymb" <airltd(at)mts.net> |
Here's another similar idea.
--------
Adrian M
Winnipeg, MB
Canada
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=364322#364322
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/jury_attachment_953.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Photos /Heat muff |
Adrian,
Hey I like the heat muff we can see in your picture.... any info on it
for the group?
Brian
SLC-UT
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of pineymb
Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2012 3:38 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Photos of jury strut fittings on aluminum
struts
Here's another similar idea.
--------
Adrian M
Winnipeg, MB
Canada
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=364322#364322
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/jury_attachment_953.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matthijs de Groot <getijsem(at)zonnet.nl> |
| Subject: | Re: Do we doubt our work? |
He Douwe
I'm living on the island of Texel.
Neer the airfield.
I'm working there as a Tandem master (skydive Instructor).
So I am surrounded by many people whit lots of now how.
I practically live on the field.
Especially the old glider pilots know a lot about building in wood.
Still working every day. Winter time is slow jumping but hard building.
And if it rains during the summer it's not so bad because I can build.
Your welcome to have a look in sept but so far after one year of work
I have: all ribs done the tail section and a start on my 1928 A ford.
I hope I can show more in sept may be a prop.
Thanx all of you for the good spirit I'm going strong.
Matthijs
On Jan 19, 2012, at 5:39 PM, Douwe Blumberg wrote:
> Hey Matthijs!
>
> Scratch building an airplane from these plans is a monumental
> achievement in my opinion. Percentage wise, VERY few people have
> ever done it and these days, even less are doing it. It takes a
> unique kind of person, maybe a dreamer with a willingness to learn
> many skills and an ability to commit, but above all it takes a
> unique kind of persistence that is driven by a vision of something
> larger worth striving for.
>
> I feel that bringing to life to one of Pietenpol=92s planes is not
> only one of the highlights of my life, but also a blessing to
> everyone who will ever see or fly in it because it is like a time
> capsule and historic artifact all wrapped up in one.
>
> Yes it is a long journey, and one I struggle with every day now that
> I=92m actually rebuilding mine after an incident that set me back two
> years now. YES I ABSOLUTELY STRUGGLE WHEN I THINK ABOUT ALL THE
> THINGS LEFT TO DO, BUT WHILE I STRUGGLE, I WORK=85 AND MOVE THE
> PROJECT FORWARD EVERY DAY. BUT=85 I KNOW, without a shadow of a doubt
> that my persistence will pay off and when I=92m flying her through the
> blue skies, over the green pastures that I will not feel badly about
> the time spent building her, but I will look back fondly and proudly
> that I stuck with it.
>
> A friend once told me about projects like this =93Touch something on
> it every day=94. That one thought has helped me a lot.
>
> Where in the Netherlands are you? My wife and I will be visiting
> family next September.
>
> Douwe
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matthijs de Groot <getijsem(at)zonnet.nl> |
| Subject: | Re: tailfeather flimsy feeling---that's perfect Matthijs, |
they are flimsy!
I wil put bloks in im thinking to use balsa?
On Jan 19, 2012, at 6:33 PM, Michael Perez wrote:
> These spacer blocks are not on the plans. Mike C. had told me about
> adding these blocks for the reasons he described. Having just
> finished covering my tail pieces, I can say that they work just
> fine. I did not loose any curved shape by shrinking the fabric.
>
> Michael Perez
> Karetaker Aero
> www.karetakeraero.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | tailfeather flimsy feeling---that's perfect Matthijs, |
they are flimsy!
Balsa should work well. Balsa has good compressive strength. I used spruce
but only because I had lots of scrap spruce laying around.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Matthijs de
Groot
Sent: Friday, January 20, 2012 6:34 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: tailfeather flimsy feeling---that's perfect
Matthijs, they are flimsy!
I wil put bloks in im thinking to use balsa?
On Jan 19, 2012, at 6:33 PM, Michael Perez wrote:
These spacer blocks are not on the plans. Mike C. had told me about adding
these blocks for the reasons he described. Having just finished covering my
tail pieces, I can say that they work just fine. I did not loose any curved
shape by shrinking the fabric.
Michael Perez
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Photos /Heat muff |
| From: | "pineymb" <airltd(at)mts.net> |
Brian
A very simple design consisting of two end caps radius to fit between the stacks
with a wrap around forming the body of the heat muff. The inlet and outlet are
offset from each other.
I will be away for a week or so but if someone would like actual dimensions or
a simple sketch I can do that t a later date.
Attached a more recent photo after I had the stacks and muff coated.
--------
Adrian M
Winnipeg, MB
Canada
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=364343#364343
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00633_596.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Engine Conversion |
If I were to buy an engine with starter and generator provisions,-like a
C-75, 85 etc. -12- but had no intentions on using these parts, could I bl
ock of these ports and just hand prop the engine? (-8) Would it be best to
wait on a -8 instead? Any weight penalties with a -12 as compared to a -8 e
ven if the starter/generator are not installed?-
-
Thanks.
Michael Perez
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Franklin <jbfjr(at)peoplepc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Conversion |
Michael,
My co-builder, Jim Sury, had a C85-12 on his GN-1 but removed all of the electrical
stuff so he wouldn't have to buy a transponder. At our airfield we are just
inside a Mode C veil. As far as I know, he didn't have any issues from removing
the electrical except weight & balance. I think he overcame that by shifting
the wing.
Regards,
John Franklin
Prairie Aire 4TA0
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Perez
Sent: Jan 20, 2012 10:11 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Engine Conversion
If I were to buy an engine with starter and generator provisions, like a C-75,
85 etc. -12 but had no intentions on using these parts, could I block of these
ports and just hand prop the engine? (-8) Would it be best to wait on a -8 instead?
Any weight penalties with a -12 as compared to a -8 even if the starter/generator
are not installed?
Thanks.
Michael Perez
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Engine Conversion |
| From: | "Piet2112" <curtdm(at)gmail.com> |
Michael,
I found this, but haven't been able to find the actual STC if it exists. I was
lucky enough to buy a C85-8 so no mods required.
Curt Merdan
Flower Mound, TX
http://www.bowersflybaby.com/tech/fenton.htm#C-85-8_vs._C-85-12
C-85-8 vs. C-85-12
I have a Air knocker with a C-85-8. I believe I need to convert this to a -12 configuration
to mount a starter. What parts are involved other than changing out
the accessory case using one from a C-85-12,C-90.or a 0-200?
The C-85-8 and C85-12 engines are significantly different. The crankcase, accessory
case, accessory gears, and magnetos are different, among other details.
The hole spacing and pattern on the -8 accessory case is different than the -12
case, so the -12 accessory case does not bolt right up to the -8 crankcase.
I am not aware of any approvals to convert from a -8 configuration to -12.
The good news is that your engine is quite desirable, and the C85-12 is not as
popular. The -8 is so desirable that there is an STC to convert -12 engines
to -8 status (but not the other direction). You would be money ahead to sell
your -8 and buy a -12.
Unfortunately, there is no easy way to install a starter on the -8 series engine.
I have looked at several methods, but the expense and complexity of the conversion
is simply too high.
I'm converting my Champ to a C-85-12 (but no electrics) and I'm using the Lasher
STC because it provides the least amount of restrictions for engine choice.
The Lasher STC works for the C-85 series of engines, but not for the O-200.
You will need some factory drawings and an entirely new cowling to legally install
the O-200.
Sorry I don't have a better answer, but this is the straight story.
Harry
Follow-Up
You are suggesting to me that the -8 engine is a better engine than the -12. Did
I understand this correctly?
I guess the -8 engine could be lighter, therefore has a better hp to weight ratio.
The -8 is preferred because it is lighter than the -12 and less complicated. Internally,
the two engines are similar, but the electrical accessories, wiring
and battery adds a lot of weight and reduces engine power output a bit because
the mechanical drag of the accessories eat up a couple of horsepower. Also,
within the Cub and Aeronca groups, there is a certain feeling that the -8 is better.
Most of the guys who think the -8 is better really don't know why, it
is really just what they have "heard". The -8 is also a more historically accurate
engine for the more perfect restorations.
However, it is all a point of view. If you want electrics, then the -12 is more
valuable. If your preference is simple and light, then the -8 is a better engine.
Basically, they are both 85 hp engines, the -12 is about 5 lbs heavier,
plus the added weight of the generator, starter, battery, battery box, wiring,
etc which adds another 30-35 lbs or so the airframe.
I split the difference by building a -12 minus electrics, which is an approved
installation. My engine weighs about 5 lbs more than a -8, but I do have the
option of installing electrics at a later time. I probably won't as I don't mind
hand propping my engine. Maybe in 20 years I won't, but that is a way off
yet.
If you are not on the lists, join the Fearless Aeronca Aviator list and the National
Aeronca Association discussion. These two groups will have a ton of information
on the pros and cons of the -8 vs the -12 installation in terms of impact
on aircraft performance.
Harry
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=364367#364367
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | I wish it could fly! |
| From: | "Piet2112" <curtdm(at)gmail.com> |
I finally got to sit in the pilot seat of a Piet!
Curt Merdan
Flower Mound, TX
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=364374#364374
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_2849_303.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_2850_148.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Engine Conversion |
| From: | Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com> |
If the intention is to avoid needing the transponder, ok.....but you won't
be hurt by the extra weight on the front end....
Ryan
On Fri, Jan 20, 2012 at 10:11 AM, Michael Perez wrote:
> If I were to buy an engine with starter and generator provisions, like a
> C-75, 85 etc. -12 but had no intentions on using these parts, could I
> block of these ports and just hand prop the engine? (-8) Would it be best
> to wait on a -8 instead? Any weight penalties with a -12 as compared to a
> -8 even if the starter/generator are not installed?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Michael Perez
> Karetaker Aero
> www.karetakeraero.com
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Conversion |
Crew, thanks for the help. Some very good info. on the differences between the
-8s and -12s. Seems to be a lot more to changing from one to the other then I
had thought.
I thought maybe I could expand my engine searching to include -12 engines if such
a change over could easily done.
Michael Perez
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
--- On Fri, 1/20/12, Ryan Mueller wrote:
> From: Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Engine Conversion
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Friday, January 20, 2012, 2:46 PM
> If the intention is to avoid needing the
> transponder, ok.....but you won't be hurt by the extra
> weight on the front end....
> Ryan
>
> On Fri, Jan 20, 2012
> at 10:11 AM, Michael Perez
> wrote:
>
> If I were to buy an engine with
> starter and generator provisions,like a C-75, 85 etc.
> -12 but had no intentions on using these parts, could I
> block of these ports and just hand prop the engine? (-8)
> Would it be best to wait on a -8 instead? Any weight
> penalties with a -12 as compared to a -8 even if the
> starter/generator are not installed?
>
>
> Thanks.
>
> Michael Perez
> Karetaker Aero
> www.karetakeraero.com
>
>
> "
> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> tp://forums.matronics.com
> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Engine Conversion |
| From: | "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca> |
Michael,
With a C-75 or C-85-12, even though these engines have a starter, you would still
have the option of hand propping anytime you want.
But I believe the answer to your original question was YES, you can remove the
starter and generator, and cover up the openings with coverplates. This is what
"the Continental Guru", Harry Fenton said he did for his plane (he says it is
an approved installation). In your case, since you're building an Experimental
aircraft, I believe you are free to do as you please (no STC required).
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=364394#364394
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Conversion |
Thanks Bill. That was the basic question...if there were any problems with buying
a -12, pitch, (sell) the starter, generator, misc. wires, etc., block off any
un-used ports and GO!
Michael Perez
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Photos, lower end of aluminum strut |
| From: | helspersew(at)aol.com |
Listers,
Found a couple more pics, illustrating the lower end of the aluminum strut.
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | airlion <airlion(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Photos, lower end of aluminum strut |
Dan, how long are your one inch metal into your struts.? Are you sure that the
piper rod ends are cad plated? I don't know what that means. My rod ends are
steel because my magnet tells me so.I have not ordered my struts yet. Cheers,
Gardiner
________________________________
From: "helspersew(at)aol.com" <helspersew(at)aol.com>
Sent: Fri, January 20, 2012 7:25:40 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Photos, lower end of aluminum strut
Listers,
Found a couple more pics, illustrating the lower end of the aluminum strut.
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: I wish it could fly! |
| From: | "regchief" <kbosley(at)comcast.net> |
Gary, you should have donned a santa suit and sat on top of the truck with reins.
The pic could have been titled "Go Rudolf,,,,GO"
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=364421#364421
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: I wish it could fly! |
| From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
Looking good Curt!
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=364430#364430
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Photos, lower end of aluminum strut |
| From: | helspersew(at)aol.com |
Gardiner,
I believe I made them 6" or 7" long (can't remember), held in by two 1/4" d
ia AN4 bolts. The J-3 fork ends are steel and have some kind of corrosion-p
roofing coating. Can't honestly say what it is. It may not be cadmium. Hope
this helps.
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN
-----Original Message-----
From: airlion <airlion(at)bellsouth.net>
Sent: Fri, Jan 20, 2012 7:49 pm
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Photos, lower end of aluminum strut
Dan, how long are your one inch metal into your struts.? Are you sure that
the piper rod ends are cad plated? I don't know what that means. My rod en
ds are steel because my magnet tells me so.I have not ordered my struts yet
. Cheers, Gardiner
From: "helspersew(at)aol.com" <helspersew(at)aol.com>
Sent: Fri, January 20, 2012 7:25:40 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Photos, lower end of aluminum strut
Listers,
Found a couple more pics, illustrating the lower end of the aluminum strut.
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN
-= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum -
-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark Stanley" <mmrally(at)nifty.com> |
| Subject: | Re: I wish it could fly! |
Hi Curt,
Looking good!.....bet you made the official 'airplane noises'??
Mark Stanley
Japan
-----Original Message-----
From: Piet2112
Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2012 3:09 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: I wish it could fly!
I finally got to sit in the pilot seat of a Piet!
Curt Merdan
Flower Mound, TX
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=364374#364374
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_2849_303.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_2850_148.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark Stanley" <mmrally(at)nifty.com> |
Hi Pieters,
Just surfing around the web and came accross this site
http://www.fordgarage.com/
It covers allot of Ford A/B bits and pieces inc engine etc.
I havn=1B$B!G=1B(Bt look at it all yet but for newbies like me thinking
about the Ford A for the Piet, it may be of interset.
Appologies if it has been posted before.
Mark Stanley
Japan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | airlion <airlion(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Photos, lower end of aluminum strut |
Thanks Dan. I will go from there and put some kind of coating on the threads.
Gardiner
________________________________
From: "helspersew(at)aol.com" <helspersew(at)aol.com>
Sent: Sat, January 21, 2012 7:03:21 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Photos, lower end of aluminum strut
Gardiner,
I believe I made them 6" or 7" long (can't remember), held in by two 1/4" dia
AN4 bolts. The J-3 fork ends are steel and have some kind of corrosion-proofing
coating. Can't honestly say what it is. It may not be cadmium. Hope this helps.
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN
-----Original Message-----
From: airlion <airlion(at)bellsouth.net>
Sent: Fri, Jan 20, 2012 7:49 pm
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Photos, lower end of aluminum strut
Dan, how long are your one inch metal into your struts.? Are you sure that the
piper rod ends are cad plated? I don't know what that means. My rod ends are
steel because my magnet tells me so.I have not ordered my struts yet. Cheers,
Gardiner
________________________________
From: "helspersew(at)aol.com" <helspersew(at)aol.com>
Sent: Fri, January 20, 2012 7:25:40 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Photos, lower end of aluminum strut
Listers,
Found a couple more pics, illustrating the lower end of the aluminum strut.
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN
" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
p://forums.matronics.com blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ben Charvet <bencharvet(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Ford A/B site |
I just finished restoring a Model A pickup. Its amazing how cheap parts
are for these old cars. Try brattons,.com.
Ben
On 1/21/2012 7:48 AM, Mark Stanley wrote:
> Hi Pieters,
> Just surfing around the web and came accross this site
> http://www.fordgarage.com/
> It covers allot of Ford A/B bits and pieces inc engine etc.
> I havn$B!G(Bt look at it all yet but for newbies like me thinking about the
> Ford A for the Piet, it may be of interset.
> Appologies if it has been posted before.
> Mark Stanley
> Japan
> *
>
>
> *
--
Ben Charvet, PharmD
Staff Pharmacist
Parrish Medical center
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Cabane fitting weld |
| From: | "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca> |
John,
You really don't want to be welding adjacent to your spar.
Why don't you build a jig? Use some scrap wood and duplicate the geometry of the
spar/triangular plywood. Place the metal parts in the jig, tack weld, and remove
for final welding. Things may still move slightly during the welding process,
but not much. As long as it is pretty close, you can adjust (fine tune) the
welded assembly with a hammer. Ideally, the triangular plywood should be fitted
to suit the welded brackets, but it sounds like you've already glued them
in place. As long as you make your jig as close to the real thing as possible,
it should work fine.
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=364447#364447
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Ash <ashcan(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Cabane fitting weld |
I second Bill's comment about it not being prudent to weld against your spar. You
don't want to be welding up against any wood, scrap or otherwise. I've welded
on stuff that was supported by wood parts, 2x4's and whatever. If you get too
close and the wood starts to smoke, it starts to effect the welding process
itself, and I suspect it can contaminate the weld also.
I have a whack of copper (maybe 1/2"x4"x8") given to me by someone unremembered
many years ago; I think it was a grounding block for something that carried enough
current to power a small town. I use it as a jigging tool for welding sometimes
to back up my parts. The copper sinks heat like crazy, so it's not going
to become part of your work piece. For something like you're suggesting, I'd
probably clamp the parts to my copper block with some vice grips. With the clamps,
you stand a much better shot at the work coming out straight and square.
You still have to watch that shrinkage doesn't deform the part, but by understanding
where the weld shrinkage is going to occur, you can plan for it and come
out with a good part.
Jim Ash
-----Original Message-----
>From: Bill Church <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca>
>Sent: Jan 21, 2012 11:41 AM
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cabane fitting weld
>
>
>John,
>
>You really don't want to be welding adjacent to your spar.
>
>Why don't you build a jig? Use some scrap wood and duplicate the geometry of the
spar/triangular plywood. Place the metal parts in the jig, tack weld, and remove
for final welding. Things may still move slightly during the welding process,
but not much. As long as it is pretty close, you can adjust (fine tune)
the welded assembly with a hammer. Ideally, the triangular plywood should be fitted
to suit the welded brackets, but it sounds like you've already glued them
in place. As long as you make your jig as close to the real thing as possible,
it should work fine.
>
>Bill C.
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=364447#364447
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "C N Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Cabane fitting weld |
I agree with Bill. That is exactly how I did it. The welding pretty much
made a mess of the jig but I was going to discard it anyway. Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca>
Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2012 11:41 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cabane fitting weld
>
>
> John,
>
> You really don't want to be welding adjacent to your spar.
>
> Why don't you build a jig? Use some scrap wood and duplicate the geometry
> of the spar/triangular plywood. Place the metal parts in the jig, tack
> weld, and remove for final welding. Things may still move slightly during
> the welding process, but not much. As long as it is pretty close, you can
> adjust (fine tune) the welded assembly with a hammer. Ideally, the
> triangular plywood should be fitted to suit the welded brackets, but it
> sounds like you've already glued them in place. As long as you make your
> jig as close to the real thing as possible, it should work fine.
>
> Bill C.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=364447#364447
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Photos, lower end of aluminum strut |
| From: | "tkreiner" <tkreiner(at)gmail.com> |
Dan,
Nice work, and looks plenty sturdy.
What thread does your Clevis have?
Do you know if a 7/16-20 thread would be appropriate for this method of lower strut.
( I was able to pick up 6 mint matching Clevis' on eBay with 7/16 threads...
Enough for struts and angled cabane struts.)
--------
Tom Kreiner
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=364465#364465
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Photos, lower end of aluminum strut |
| From: | helspersew(at)aol.com |
Tom,
The J-3 wing strut forks that I used (from Wag Aero) has that same thread,
7/16 x 20. You should be good to go. Are your forks from aircraft?
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN
PS where are you from?
-----Original Message-----
From: tkreiner <tkreiner(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Sat, Jan 21, 2012 4:41 pm
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Photos, lower end of aluminum strut
Dan,
Nice work, and looks plenty sturdy.
What thread does your Clevis have?
Do you know if a 7/16-20 thread would be appropriate for this method of low
er
trut. ( I was able to pick up 6 mint matching Clevis' on eBay with 7/16
hreads... Enough for struts and angled cabane struts.)
--------
om Kreiner
ead this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=364465#364465
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________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Photos, lower end of aluminum strut |
| From: | "tkreiner" <tkreiner(at)gmail.com> |
Dan,
Yes, they were advertised as "from a Stearman."
Not sure how great a buy it was, but I paid $26. For the lot.
--------
Tom Kreiner
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=364474#364474
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Photos, lower end of aluminum strut |
| From: | "tkreiner" <tkreiner(at)gmail.com> |
Dan,
Sorry, didn't read the entire post...
I'm in Spring, TX, (Houston area).
--------
Tom Kreiner
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=364475#364475
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Photos, lower end of aluminum strut |
| From: | helspersew(at)aol.com |
Tom,
That is a great buy!! Current price on one J-3 fork is $84.00. You did good
!!
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN
-----Original Message-----
From: tkreiner <tkreiner(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Sat, Jan 21, 2012 5:38 pm
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Photos, lower end of aluminum strut
Dan,
Sorry, didn't read the entire post...
I'm in Spring, TX, (Houston area).
--------
om Kreiner
ead this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=364475#364475
-= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum -
-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
-= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
-= Photoshare, and much much more:
-
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
-
-========================
-= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
-= Same great content also available via the Web Forums!
-
-= --> http://forums.matronics.com
-
-========================
-= - List Contribution Web Site -
-= Thank you for your generous support!
-= -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
-========================
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Photos, lower end of aluminum strut |
| From: | "tkreiner" <tkreiner(at)gmail.com> |
Dan,
Sorry, didn't read the entire post...
I'm in Spring, TX, (Houston area).
--------
Tom Kreiner
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=364479#364479
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Photos of jury strut fittings on aluminum struts |
| From: | "VanDy" <matthew.vandervort(at)gmail.com> |
hope this pic helps some too, I'll check the total hours next time I am in my garage.
--------
www.vansaviation.com follow my Piet rebuild there!
almost dissasembled, getting ready to order all AN hardware and SS cable
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=364486#364486
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Woodflier(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: I wish it could fly! |
Curt, I have a picture of me doing the same thing when my fuselage looked
like yours. It was quite a thrill to sit in the pilot's seat for the first
time and make airplane noises. Just take the remainder of the build process
a day at time, celebrate the completion of each component and one day
you'll be flying your Piet to Brodhead. It will happen!
Matt Paxton
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: I wish it could fly! |
| From: | "Piet2112" <curtdm(at)gmail.com> |
Jack,
It's a long fuselage built out of spruce, ash, aircraft grade birch plywood and
T-88. It is weighing in right at 50 lbs without the plywood sides which weigh
about 5 lbs each.
Curt Merdan
Flower Mound, TX
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=364526#364526
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_2851_151.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_2852_905.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: I wish it could fly! |
| From: | "aerocarjake" <flight.jake(at)gmail.com> |
Thanks Curt...... My steel tube was 43 pounds when I first weighed it but I have
been adding fittings, shoulder harness supports and other structure so we may
be pretty close. Terry tells me his is 47 with the basic gear parts and tailwheel
but his does not have the seats in it at this point..... Sure is hard to
compare apples to apples... ;-)
--------
Jake Schultz - curator,
Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=364529#364529
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: I wish it could fly! |
| From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
I think everyone does it... it's mandatory.
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=364540#364540
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/fuselage_140.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: I wish it could fly! |
| From: | "tdudley(at)umn.edu" <tdudley(at)umn.edu> |
Curt,
That is some real quality-appearing workmanship.
I'll bet it feels good to sit in it. I haven't done that in mine yet, but I could
have. For one reason or another I told myself I'd earn the right to sit in
it when I got the controls in and gear on. Now that it's up on sawhorses, the
temptation to sit in it isn't too great--I'm afraid I'd tip it over.
Again, that's a GREAT looking fuse.
Tom
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=364543#364543
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 8 minute video segment from EAA on the Pietenpol Air |
Camper
| From: | "coxwelljon" <coxwelljon(at)frontiernet.net> |
Thanks for posting the link. I have to do a program at Rotary in a couple of weeks
and I would like to use that as part of my presentation.
--------
Jon Coxwell
GN-1 Builder
Recycle and preserve the planet
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=364551#364551
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | My road to the Hangar |
Group,
We finally had our first big snow storm of the year... Here in Utah we usually
have more snow by now but Mother Nature hasn't been kind to us skiers.
How this thread is Pietenpol related is... this is the road which I drive out to
my hangar at the Skypark airport to work on the Piet, I am glad I wasn't one
of the poor unfortunates to get piled up. Hope you enjoy the video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrJuigh2aCc
Brian
Snowy Utah
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | airlion <airlion(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: My road to the Hangar |
Lets hope the Utah pilots have more sense than Utah drivers. Gardiner
----- Original Message ----
From: "brian.e.jardine@l-3com.com" <brian.e.jardine@l-3com.com>
Sent: Mon, January 23, 2012 11:09:28 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: My road to the Hangar
Group,
We finally had our first big snow storm of the year... Here in Utah we usually
have more snow by now but Mother Nature hasn't been kind to us skiers.
How this thread is Pietenpol related is... this is the road which I drive out to
my hangar at the Skypark airport to work on the Piet, I am glad I wasn't one of
the poor unfortunates to get piled up. Hope you enjoy the video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrJuigh2aCc
Brian
Snowy Utah
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: My road to the Hangar |
| From: | Andrew Eldredge <andrew.eldredge(at)gmail.com> |
Now let's be fair, Just about every east-west running street in Bountiful
has a steep grade.
On Mon, Jan 23, 2012 at 10:55 AM, airlion wrote:
>
> Lets hope the Utah pilots have more sense than Utah drivers. Gardiner
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: "brian.e.jardine@l-3com.com" <brian.e.jardine@l-3com.com>
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Mon, January 23, 2012 11:09:28 AM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: My road to the Hangar
>
>
> Group,
> We finally had our first big snow storm of the year... Here in Utah we
> usually
> have more snow by now but Mother Nature hasn't been kind to us skiers.
> How this thread is Pietenpol related is... this is the road which I drive
> out to
> my hangar at the Skypark airport to work on the Piet, I am glad I wasn't
> one of
> the poor unfortunates to get piled up. Hope you enjoy the video.
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrJuigh2aCc
>
>
> Brian
> Snowy Utah
>
>
--
Andrew Eldredge
Provo, UT
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Modifications as the result of operational experience |
| From: | "kevinpurtee" <kevin.purtee(at)us.army.mil> |
Ive made several changes to Fat Bottom Girl over the last several months and have
promised updates. Here they are:
Wood Struts
The original wood struts have Douglas Fir tops and bottoms sandwiching aircraft
plywood. I bought them from a friend. I noticed signs of delamination between
the fir and the plywood on all the struts at around the 250 hour mark. The
worst delamination was on the left rear strut, which I used as a support point
for loading passengers. Im pretty sure the guy who built the struts used T-88
but I dont remember. Anyway, a dear friend who shall, as always, remain nameless
(Gary Boothe) made new struts for me. They are constructed from four
hickory sticks laminated together. The glue lines on the original struts ran
parallel to the wing, the new laminations are perpendicular. They seem quite
stout though I have not flown them very long. Gary is a saint.
Note: For what its worth, the holes on the old struts showed no sign of distress
or elongation. Thats with 260 hours, several hundred takeoffs and landings,
and a significant wing dragging episode on each side.
Wing Cross Wires
I used the cross wires at the right front cockpit to hold the wing in place. I
can honestly say that I do not remember why. I also do not remember why on earth
I lopped off the ears from the top motor mount where the diagonal cabanes
would mount. Regardless, I added diagonal cabanes and got rid of the wires to
improve ingress/egress from the front cockpit.
I did not want to cut a bunch of fabric and remake motor mounts, so I carefully
crafted an East Texas Redneck Modification (ETRM) to provide the front mount
for the diagonals. I welded them to the vertical cabanes at the top. Ill improve
that ETRM when we re-cover the plane. See attached photo.
Clourcars Prop
Ive taken so much abuse for the ugly-but-effective Warp Drive prop that I broke
down and bought a wooden prop from Cloudcars. It is 68x34. They originally
sent me a 68X27 which Jay calculated to be similar in pitch to my Warp at 7.5
degrees. It wasnt enough pitch. They very kindly provided another propeller.
It appears to have a little more functional pitch than the Warp. The plane
climbs a little slower, but still at better than 500 fpm, and flies about 10%
faster. Since were not allowed to fly our Cloudcars in the rain I may switch
to the Warp for traveling to and from Brodhead, and then use the pretty wooden
prop while there. See attached photo.
Landing Gear Springs
I think Ive talked about this already. I re-did the gear with springs instead
of bungees after one of the bungees failed and left me limping down the taxiway
at an awkward angle. I used Hans Van der Voorts drawings.
The Dreaded Corvair
The Weseman 5th bearing has been installed for ~60 hours. So far so good.
Last year at this time I noticed a sudden drop in power of about 150 rpm. It turned
out to be a burned valve. Roy Szarafinski re-did the heads for me. The
reworked heads actually give me an increase in static of 150 rpm. I originally
had the heads done at a car shop several years ago. Its safe to say that Roy
does significantly more sophisticated work than most car shops.
Use as you see fit.
--------
Kevin "Axel" Purtee
NX899KP
Austin/Georgetown, TX
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=364597#364597
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/painted_prop_211.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/all_3_mods_169.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Modifications as the result of operational experience |
| From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
What did you do with your 3-piece wing? [Laughing]
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=364604#364604
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Morlock" <l.morlock(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Wing Strut Forks |
Can anyone help on where I can find the minimum thread engagement on the
forks that fit in the end of the wing struts? I'm getting ready to cut
the struts to the correct length and would like to assure I can use the
maximum amount of threads for adjustment and still have sufficient
thread engagement. I can't find anything in the Bingelis books on this.
The forks I have are from Aircraft Spruce - 7/16 x 20 threads and the
threads are 2 1/4 in. long. The barrel it fits in is about 2 in long as
well. Should I assume 1 in. minimum thread engagement, then have 5/8
in. adjustment either way, or ??????
Appreciate any help.
Larry Morlock
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | airlion <airlion(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Modifications as the result of operational experience |
That was a very good post Kevin. What kind of degree setting did you have on
your warp drive. Also what was your static and cruise speed? I would like a
cloudcars too but I need to get my plane flying first. I am about finished with
the first wing. A good way to carry the prop would be tied onto your wing struts
just out board the jury struts. You will never know it's there. Cheers, Gardiner
----- Original Message ----
From: kevinpurtee <kevin.purtee(at)us.army.mil>
Sent: Mon, January 23, 2012 3:36:26 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Modifications as the result of operational experience
Ive made several changes to Fat Bottom Girl over the last several months and
have promised updates. Here they are:
Wood Struts
The original wood struts have Douglas Fir tops and bottoms sandwiching
aircraft plywood. I bought them from a friend. I noticed signs of delamination
between the fir and the plywood on all the struts at around the 250 hour mark.
The worst delamination was on the left rear strut, which I used as a support
point for loading passengers. Im pretty sure the guy who built the struts used
T-88 but I dont remember. Anyway, a dear friend who shall, as always, remain
nameless (Gary Boothe) made new struts for me. They are constructed from four
hickory sticks laminated together. The glue lines on the original struts ran
parallel to the wing, the new laminations are perpendicular. They seem quite
stout though I have not flown them very long. Gary is a saint.
Note: For what its worth, the holes on the old struts showed no sign of
distress or elongation. Thats with 260 hours, several hundred takeoffs and
landings, and a significant wing dragging episode on each side.
Wing Cross Wires
I used the cross wires at the right front cockpit to hold the wing in place. I
can honestly say that I do not remember why. I also do not remember why on
earth I lopped off the ears from the top motor mount where the diagonal cabanes
would mount. Regardless, I added diagonal cabanes and got rid of the wires to
improve ingress/egress from the front cockpit.
I did not want to cut a bunch of fabric and remake motor mounts, so I carefully
crafted an East Texas Redneck Modification (ETRM) to provide the front mount for
the diagonals. I welded them to the vertical cabanes at the top. Ill improve
that ETRM when we re-cover the plane. See attached photo.
Clourcars Prop
Ive taken so much abuse for the ugly-but-effective Warp Drive prop that I broke
down and bought a wooden prop from Cloudcars. It is 68x34. They originally
sent me a 68X27 which Jay calculated to be similar in pitch to my Warp at 7.5
degrees. It wasnt enough pitch. They very kindly provided another propeller.
It appears to have a little more functional pitch than the Warp. The plane
climbs a little slower, but still at better than 500 fpm, and flies about 10%
faster. Since were not allowed to fly our Cloudcars in the rain I may switch
to the Warp for traveling to and from Brodhead, and then use the pretty wooden
prop while there. See attached photo.
Landing Gear Springs
I think Ive talked about this already. I re-did the gear with springs instead
of bungees after one of the bungees failed and left me limping down the taxiway
at an awkward angle. I used Hans Van der Voorts drawings.
The Dreaded Corvair
The Weseman 5th bearing has been installed for ~60 hours. So far so good.
Last year at this time I noticed a sudden drop in power of about 150 rpm. It
turned out to be a burned valve. Roy Szarafinski re-did the heads for me. The
reworked heads actually give me an increase in static of 150 rpm. I originally
had the heads done at a car shop several years ago. Its safe to say that Roy
does significantly more sophisticated work than most car shops.
Use as you see fit.
--------
Kevin "Axel" Purtee
NX899KP
Austin/Georgetown, TX
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=364597#364597
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/painted_prop_211.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/all_3_mods_169.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Boyer <boyerjrb(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Modifications as the result of operational experience |
Hi Kevin,
What a beautiful prop; glad to hear it improves your cruise and that you still
have good climb. I like the forward cabane struts to the motor mount; I have those
just mocked up right now; was going to wait until I do weight and balance
first time.
You have been busy and your Piet is even better looking now.
Cheers,
Jim B.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB" <steven.d.dortch(at)us.army.mil> |
| Subject: | Re: Modifications as the result of operational experience |
Axel, that wood prop just looks right!
Good to see you at the ceremony. I about laughed my head of when the car alarm
beeped during every salute with the cannons.
Blue Skies,
Steve D
----- Original Message -----
From: kevinpurtee <kevin.purtee(at)us.army.mil>
Date: Monday, January 23, 2012 14:44
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Modifications as the result of operational experience
>
> Ive made several changes to Fat Bottom Girl over the last several months and
have promised updates. Here they are:
>
> Wood Struts
> The original wood struts have Douglas Fir tops and bottoms sandwiching aircraft
plywood. I bought them from a friend. I noticed signs of
> delamination between the fir and the plywood on all the struts at
> around the 250 hour mark. The worst delamination was on the left
> rear strut, which I used as a support point for loading passengers.
> Im pretty sure the guy who built the struts used T-88 but I
> dont remember. Anyway, a dear friend who shall, as always,
> remain nameless (Gary Boothe) made new struts for me. They are
> constructed from four hickory sticks laminated together. The glue
> lines on the original struts ran parallel to the wing, the new
> laminations are perpendicular. They seem quite stout though I have
> not flown them very long. Gary is a saint.
>
> Note: For what its worth, the holes on the old struts showed no
> sign of distress or elongation. Thats with 260 hours, several
> hundred takeoffs and landings, and a significant wing dragging
> episode on each side.
>
> Wing Cross Wires
> I used the cross wires at the right front cockpit to hold the wing
> in place. I can honestly say that I do not remember why. I also
> do not remember why on earth I lopped off the ears from the top
> motor mount where the diagonal cabanes would mount. Regardless, I
> added diagonal cabanes and got rid of the wires to improve
> ingress/egress from the front cockpit.
>
> I did not want to cut a bunch of fabric and remake motor mounts, so
> I carefully crafted an East Texas Redneck Modification (ETRM) to
> provide the front mount for the diagonals. I welded them to the
> vertical cabanes at the top. Ill improve that ETRM when we re-
> cover the plane. See attached photo.
>
> Clourcars Prop
> Ive taken so much abuse for the ugly-but-effective Warp Drive
> prop that I broke down and bought a wooden prop from Cloudcars. It
> is 68x34. They originally sent me a 68X27 which Jay calculated to
> be similar in pitch to my Warp at 7.5 degrees. It wasnt enough
> pitch. They very kindly provided another propeller. It appears to
> have a little more functional pitch than the Warp. The plane
> climbs a little slower, but still at better than 500 fpm, and flies
> about 10% faster. Since were not allowed to fly our Cloudcars
> in the rain I may switch to the Warp for traveling to and from
> Brodhead, and then use the pretty wooden prop while there. See
> attached photo.
>
> Landing Gear Springs
> I think Ive talked about this already. I re-did the gear with
> springs instead of bungees after one of the bungees failed and left
> me limping down the taxiway at an awkward angle. I used Hans Van
> der Voorts drawings.
>
> The Dreaded Corvair
> The Weseman 5th bearing has been installed for ~60 hours. So far
> so good.
>
> Last year at this time I noticed a sudden drop in power of about
> 150 rpm. It turned out to be a burned valve. Roy Szarafinski re-
> did the heads for me. The reworked heads actually give me an
> increase in static of 150 rpm. I originally had the heads done at
> a car shop several years ago. Its safe to say that Roy does
> significantly more sophisticated work than most car shops.
>
> Use as you see fit.
>
> --------
> Kevin "Axel" Purtee
> NX899KP
> Austin/Georgetown, TX
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=364597#364597
>
>
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/painted_prop_211.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/all_3_mods_169.jpg
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Rudder Pedals VS Rudder Bar |
| From: | "Larry Vetter" <vetter(at)evertek.net> |
I know some Pietenpols have rudder pedals for the rear cockpit and some have a
rudder bar.
For those that may have flown both types is there a difference in handling on the
ground or in the air?I would think not in the air so much as ground handling....maybe.
Thanks
Larry
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=364634#364634
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Modifications as the result of operational experience |
| From: | "kevinpurtee" <kevin.purtee(at)us.army.mil> |
For Gardiner: 7.5 degrees pitch, 2850 static RPM, cruise at 75.
Kevin
--------
Kevin "Axel" Purtee
NX899KP
Austin/Georgetown, TX
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=364638#364638
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wing Strut Forks |
| From: | Hans Van Der Voort <hvandervoo(at)aol.com> |
Larry,
Rule of thumb diameter = minimum thread engagement.
Thus 7/16 diameter you need 7/16 lenght to get full strenght on threads.
But more is always better.
BR
Hans
NX 15KV
-----Original Message-----
From: Larry Morlock <l.morlock(at)att.net>
Sent: Mon, Jan 23, 2012 4:45 pm
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing Strut Forks
Can anyone help on where I can find the minimum thread engagement on the fo
rks that fit in the end of the wing struts? I'm getting ready to cut the s
truts to the correct length and would like to assure I can use the maximum
amount of threads for adjustment and still have sufficient thread engagemen
t. I can't find anything in the Bingelis books on this.
The forks I have are from Aircraft Spruce - 7/16 x 20 threads and the threa
ds are 2 1/4 in. long. The barrel it fits in is about 2 in long as well.
Should I assume 1 in. minimum thread engagement, then have 5/8 in. adjustme
nt either way, or ??????
Appreciate any help.
Larry Morlock
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________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rudder Pedals vs Rudder Bar |
| From: | "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com> |
My Piet has a rudder bar in the back and pedals up front, and I fly it from both
seats.
I like the bar a lot better and I was extremely skeptical about it when I first
sat in a Piet.
I think it's a matter of geometry. Since the pedal is a class two lever and the
linkage attach point moves in an arc, it's not a linear thing... and in the
wrong direction (most sensitive near neutral and less sensitive as travel progresses).
Pedal hookups for rear seat usage may be different though.
Tools
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=364647#364647
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jeff wilson <jlwilsonnn(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Wood Lift Struts |
Hey guys,=0A-=0AQuestion about the wood struts. I plan on using wood gear
and wood lift struts and the question is about solid versus laminated on t
he struts. I-am planning on solid. I know many of you like the laminated
look but is it any stronger. I've looked through AC 43-13 some but have not
really found anything recomending one way or the other.- I have all 4 of
Tony B's books but haven't had time to search through them yet for comment
s on the subject. So since I'm wasting time at work checking my personal em
ail I'll throw this one out there.=0A-=0AWhat's functionally-better for
wood lift Struts, solid or laminated. =0A-=0AJeff Wilson=0ASt. Louis=0AS
ackman H49
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gboothe5" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Wood Lift Struts |
Jeff,
I'm no expert, but I have made 3 sets, so far, one of which is currently
flying on Kevin Purtee's Fat Bottom Girl. I do not think that a solid strut,
made from a perfect piece of wood, would be any less strong.the key word
being "perfect." Good luck finding that. Laminating, allows you to use
boards that may have imperfections (knots, grain variance, warpage, etc) by
ripping and using the good portions. In my case, I bought 7/8" hickory
boards, ripped them to 1 1/16", turned them and glued them so that I
created 1 1/16" thick struts, made up of, at most, 7/8" rips. This allows
you to turn a flat grained board into vertical grain rips, and warpage can
be almost eliminated in the gluing process.
Happy Building,
Gary from Cool
NX308MB
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of jeff wilson
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 6:12 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wood Lift Struts
Hey guys,
Question about the wood struts. I plan on using wood gear and wood lift
struts and the question is about solid versus laminated on the struts. I am
planning on solid. I know many of you like the laminated look but is it any
stronger. I've looked through AC 43-13 some but have not really found
anything recomending one way or the other. I have all 4 of Tony B's books
but haven't had time to search through them yet for comments on the subject.
So since I'm wasting time at work checking my personal email I'll throw this
one out there.
What's functionally better for wood lift Struts, solid or laminated.
Jeff Wilson
St. Louis
Sackman H49
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Wood Lift Struts |
Another advantage of laminations is that if a crack were to develop, it will
stop at the glue line, whereas in a solid piece it will continue to
propogate.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gboothe5
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 9:34 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wood Lift Struts
Jeff,
I'm no expert, but I have made 3 sets, so far, one of which is currently
flying on Kevin Purtee's Fat Bottom Girl. I do not think that a solid strut,
made from a perfect piece of wood, would be any less strong.the key word
being "perfect." Good luck finding that. Laminating, allows you to use
boards that may have imperfections (knots, grain variance, warpage, etc) by
ripping and using the good portions. In my case, I bought 7/8" hickory
boards, ripped them to 1 1/16", turned them and glued them so that I
created 1 1/16" thick struts, made up of, at most, 7/8" rips. This allows
you to turn a flat grained board into vertical grain rips, and warpage can
be almost eliminated in the gluing process.
Happy Building,
Gary from Cool
NX308MB
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of jeff wilson
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 6:12 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wood Lift Struts
Hey guys,
Question about the wood struts. I plan on using wood gear and wood lift
struts and the question is about solid versus laminated on the struts. I am
planning on solid. I know many of you like the laminated look but is it any
stronger. I've looked through AC 43-13 some but have not really found
anything recomending one way or the other. I have all 4 of Tony B's books
but haven't had time to search through them yet for comments on the subject.
So since I'm wasting time at work checking my personal email I'll throw this
one out there.
What's functionally better for wood lift Struts, solid or laminated.
Jeff Wilson
St. Louis
Sackman H49
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: August 1969 American Aircraft Modeler magazine. |
| From: | Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com> |
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2314248/piet001.jpg
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2314248/piet002.jpg
Be warned, large images
On Thu, Jan 12, 2012 at 7:25 AM, Gottfried F. Zojer wrote:
> Hello to everyone,
>
> It s my first post to this mailing list so apologies if I m asking for
> something what was asked already.
>
> Well what I m basically looking for is a plan of Pietenpol Air Camper like
> shown on the following webpage.
>
>
> http://www.airplanesandrockets.com/airplanes/pietenpol-air-camper-aug-1969-AAM.htmand according to the writer
>
> it is a scan from the August 1969 American Aircraft Modeler magazine.
>
> Hope somebody can advise
>
> Thanks for any feedback
>
>
> Gottfried
>
> *
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wood Lift Struts |
| From: | "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca> |
Jeff,
Gary hit the nail on the head. The larger the piece of solid wood, the greater
chance for hidden flaws that may go undetected. In fact, since the glue joint,
by design, must be stronger than the parent material, a laminated strut should
actually be slightly stronger than a solid piece IF BUILT PROPERLY. Of course,
if the glue is not mixed properly, or the bonding surfaces are not wetted fully,
or if the glue joint is too thick or thin, or clamping pressure is not right,
or temperature or humidity is not right, then the laminated strut could
actually be weaker than the solid one.
On another point - and this is in general, not just directed at you, Jeff - quite
often we will read that a builder says that they have the Tony Bingelis books,
but haven't checked them yet. Those books are a treasure trove of information
for homebuilders, but they are useless if we don't crack the covers and actually
read them. They are meant to be referred to, not just sit on a shelf. Okay
- I'm off the soapbox now.
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=364682#364682
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Woodflier(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Kevin's new Cloudcars prop |
Kevin, that prop is beautiful. Great idea to keep the warp drive for the
Brodhead trek - guess that means you're planning on flying up this year.
Heck, I'd have sold you a special clip-tip Cloudcars prop, especially modified
and including mud and grass stains.
Matt Paxton
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "C N Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wood Lift Struts |
Gary, I can buy a set of T-craft struts that a friend of mine had to
take off his plane and replace with new. He says the old ones are
perfectly sound -- he had to replace because of an STC or something. Do
you think they would be as serviceable as laminated wooden struts? I am
planning to use wooden landing gear legs. Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: Gboothe5
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 9:33 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wood Lift Struts
Jeff,
I'm no expert, but I have made 3 sets, so far, one of which is
currently flying on Kevin Purtee's Fat Bottom Girl. I do not think that
a solid strut, made from a perfect piece of wood, would be any less
strong.the key word being "perfect." Good luck finding that. Laminating,
allows you to use boards that may have imperfections (knots, grain
variance, warpage, etc) by ripping and using the good portions. In my
case, I bought 7/8" hickory boards, ripped them to 1 1/16", turned them
and glued them so that I created 1 1/16" thick struts, made up of, at
most, 7/8" rips. This allows you to turn a flat grained board into
vertical grain rips, and warpage can be almost eliminated in the gluing
process.
Happy Building,
Gary from Cool
NX308MB
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of jeff
wilson
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 6:12 AM
To: Matronics
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wood Lift Struts
Hey guys,
Question about the wood struts. I plan on using wood gear and wood
lift struts and the question is about solid versus laminated on the
struts. I am planning on solid. I know many of you like the laminated
look but is it any stronger. I've looked through AC 43-13 some but have
not really found anything recomending one way or the other. I have all
4 of Tony B's books but haven't had time to search through them yet for
comments on the subject. So since I'm wasting time at work checking my
personal email I'll throw this one out there.
What's functionally better for wood lift Struts, solid or laminated.
Jeff Wilson
St. Louis
Sackman H49
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhttp://forums.matronics.
comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gboothe5" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Wood Lift Struts |
Chuck,
Most Piet builders would love to stumble upon a set of used struts, as you
have! My choice of wood is merely personal. Carry on, young man!!
Gary from Cool
NX308MB
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of C N Campbell
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 7:48 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wood Lift Struts
Gary, I can buy a set of T-craft struts that a friend of mine had to take
off his plane and replace with new. He says the old ones are perfectly
sound -- he had to replace because of an STC or something. Do you think
they would be as serviceable as laminated wooden struts? I am planning to
use wooden landing gear legs. Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: Gboothe5 <mailto:gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 9:33 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wood Lift Struts
Jeff,
I'm no expert, but I have made 3 sets, so far, one of which is currently
flying on Kevin Purtee's Fat Bottom Girl. I do not think that a solid strut,
made from a perfect piece of wood, would be any less strong.the key word
being "perfect." Good luck finding that. Laminating, allows you to use
boards that may have imperfections (knots, grain variance, warpage, etc) by
ripping and using the good portions. In my case, I bought 7/8" hickory
boards, ripped them to 1 1/16", turned them and glued them so that I
created 1 1/16" thick struts, made up of, at most, 7/8" rips. This allows
you to turn a flat grained board into vertical grain rips, and warpage can
be almost eliminated in the gluing process.
Happy Building,
Gary from Cool
NX308MB
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of jeff wilson
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 6:12 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wood Lift Struts
Hey guys,
Question about the wood struts. I plan on using wood gear and wood lift
struts and the question is about solid versus laminated on the struts. I am
planning on solid. I know many of you like the laminated look but is it any
stronger. I've looked through AC 43-13 some but have not really found
anything recomending one way or the other. I have all 4 of Tony B's books
but haven't had time to search through them yet for comments on the subject.
So since I'm wasting time at work checking my personal email I'll throw this
one out there.
What's functionally better for wood lift Struts, solid or laminated.
Jeff Wilson
St. Louis
Sackman H49
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wood Lift Struts |
| From: | "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com> |
It seems to me that the main issue with wood struts is how you attach the end fittings.
The issue there is preventing elongation of the holes, and minimizing
any structural integrity issues that may arise if they do.
First, nearly all wood/metal interfaces rely on friction between the fitting and
the wood to prevent the penetrating bolts from relying on shear force. The
bolt can handle the shear, the metal fitting can handle the shear, the wood is
clearly the weakest link.
In the case of mounting a wood prop, Sensenich's documentation clearly states that
the bolts should hold the prop to the shaft and crush plates to the point
that the prop can't rotate and put the bolts in shear, which will elongate the
holes in the prop.
In the case of a wood strut, the thing is in tension, so this is especially important.
Wood moves a lot. It grows and shrinks in all three axises with moisture variation.
If a board has the growth rings basically parallel to the face of the board,
it's "flatsawn". It will expand and contract across the width (in percentage)
the most. Next the thickness, and last by a margin is the length.
If you turn a flatsawn board into a quartersawn board (like Gary describes), you
will maximize the stability of the board. The metal fitting will not change
it's width enough to matter. The board will, and will thusly elongate the holes
accordingly (if the bolts are a tight fit). By using quartersawn wood you
minimize this.
The only part of the board that matters where a hole goes through it near the end,
is the little piece between that hole, and the end of the board. In the case
of quartersawn, it seems that it could much more easily be broken out, than
if the board were flatsawn.
If you can hang on to a board well enough, flatly pulling it apart is simply not
the issue. If you can stabilize it well enough, so that column bucking doesn't
come into play, flatly squashing it isn't much of an issue either.
If a board is dried correctly, then milled correctly, warpage, cupage and twist
really aren't a concern (as they are negligable). They don't affect the strength
of the wood anyway enough to matter.
I think if you can't get wood that at least approches aircraft quality (basically
meaning no knots and straight grain without major growth defects) you need
to laminate up a piece. I don't think it matters if you laminate to width or
thickness, just however you like the look or need to for available wood. If you
do have decent quality wood, I think it's fine as a solid piece.
No matter how you do it, properly engineered ends and properly installed, REALLY
REALLY matter.
Tools
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=364695#364695
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wood Lift Struts |
| From: | "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com> |
Oh by the way, if you think you need to laminate, but like the look of solid...
with careful selection of how you orient the wood, you can do A LOT of laminating
that basically isn't noticeable.
When I was a severely broke young lad, I had to rely on gluing up FIVE pieces of
wood for a drawer front that was only about 4 inches tall. You can't tell it's
not one piece of wood.
How the grain is oriented to prevent warps and stuff, really won't matter in a
board as wide as a strut. I routinely glue boards together up to 36" widths and
have never had a problem with them cupping or warping or anything. I've done
this in environments from the dessert to the southeast.
Tools
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=364697#364697
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wood Lift Struts |
| From: | "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com> |
http://www.rader.org/beginning.htm
There's half a dozen more creatively spelled words in there, keep looking!
Tools
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=364705#364705
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gboothe5" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wood Lift Struts |
Lest anyone considering using wood struts were to get squeamish based on the
concerns presented below, let me remind you of the following:
1) The "pull-through strength" of most woods is well-known and published.
Clif Dawson presented me with one of these tables, which I have published
before, and assume can be found in the archives. Interestingly, the numbers
are irrespective of grain direction, and are impressive.
2) Remember those engine mounts on the front of your plane? They rely solely
on the clamping pressure of 3 #3 bolts, and grain direction is never even
mentioned; nor does the type of wood seem to matter either, whether spruce,
fir, poplar, pine, etc.
3) Kevin Purtee just posted the changes he has made, one of which was to
remove and replace his previous wood struts. Those struts had suffered some
wear, not due to workmanship or design, but with over 200 hours on them.
Kevin went on to point out that there was zero elongation in the holes, and
his connection design is extremely simple.
Gary from Cool
NX308MB
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of tools
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 9:17 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wood Lift Struts
It seems to me that the main issue with wood struts is how you attach the
end fittings. The issue there is preventing elongation of the holes, and
minimizing any structural integrity issues that may arise if they do.
First, nearly all wood/metal interfaces rely on friction between the fitting
and the wood to prevent the penetrating bolts from relying on shear force.
The bolt can handle the shear, the metal fitting can handle the shear, the
wood is clearly the weakest link.
In the case of mounting a wood prop, Sensenich's documentation clearly
states that the bolts should hold the prop to the shaft and crush plates to
the point that the prop can't rotate and put the bolts in shear, which will
elongate the holes in the prop.
In the case of a wood strut, the thing is in tension, so this is especially
important.
Wood moves a lot. It grows and shrinks in all three axises with moisture
variation. If a board has the growth rings basically parallel to the face
of the board, it's "flatsawn". It will expand and contract across the width
(in percentage) the most. Next the thickness, and last by a margin is the
length.
If you turn a flatsawn board into a quartersawn board (like Gary describes),
you will maximize the stability of the board. The metal fitting will not
change it's width enough to matter. The board will, and will thusly
elongate the holes accordingly (if the bolts are a tight fit). By using
quartersawn wood you minimize this.
The only part of the board that matters where a hole goes through it near
the end, is the little piece between that hole, and the end of the board.
In the case of quartersawn, it seems that it could much more easily be
broken out, than if the board were flatsawn.
If you can hang on to a board well enough, flatly pulling it apart is simply
not the issue. If you can stabilize it well enough, so that column bucking
doesn't come into play, flatly squashing it isn't much of an issue either.
If a board is dried correctly, then milled correctly, warpage, cupage and
twist really aren't a concern (as they are negligable). They don't affect
the strength of the wood anyway enough to matter.
I think if you can't get wood that at least approches aircraft quality
(basically meaning no knots and straight grain without major growth defects)
you need to laminate up a piece. I don't think it matters if you laminate
to width or thickness, just however you like the look or need to for
available wood. If you do have decent quality wood, I think it's fine as a
solid piece.
No matter how you do it, properly engineered ends and properly installed,
REALLY REALLY matter.
Tools
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=364695#364695
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "G. Robert Stetson" <gr.stetson(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Rudder Pedals VS Rudder Bar |
This subject has come up before and some of the responses have indicated
that the bar is necessary to prevent excessive loading on the rudder
structure by pushing with both feet at the same time. Since I preferred
pedals with toe brakes, I put the bar behind the rear seat and connected the
pedals to the bar, then to the rudder. Thus, the rudder is protected from
simultaneous pressure on both pedals.
BTW, I did not put controls in the front position. I have had too much
experience with passengers that thought they could fly better than me and
have taken the airplane away from me in critical situations. An instructor
on the field has even declared that he will not get into a small airplane if
he does not have access to the controls. With no controls in the front of
the Piet, I have no concerns about having to give him a ride. Plus, I saved
some weight.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry Vetter
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2012 8:58 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Rudder Pedals VS Rudder Bar
I know some Pietenpols have rudder pedals for the rear cockpit and some have
a rudder bar.
For those that may have flown both types is there a difference in handling
on the ground or in the air?I would think not in the air so much as ground
handling....maybe. Thanks
Larry
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=364634#364634
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB" <steven.d.dortch(at)us.army.mil> |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder Pedals VS Rudder Bar |
My old V-tail bonanza (1948) has pedals on the right side, but no brakes on that
side. Brakes were put on later models. These pedals are adjustable forward and
backward for leg length. They will also fold flat to the floor, out of the
way. Of course, I have the famous Bonanza throwover yoke.
Perhaps this is the "dual" solution. Brakes that fold out of the way or that you
can take out.
Blue Skies
Steve "the good idea farie" D
----- Original Message -----
From: "G. Robert Stetson" <gr.stetson(at)verizon.net>
Date: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 17:14
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Rudder Pedals VS Rudder Bar
>
> This subject has come up before and some of the responses have indicated
> that the bar is necessary to prevent excessive loading on the rudder
> structure by pushing with both feet at the same time. Since I preferred
> pedals with toe brakes, I put the bar behind the rear seat and connected the
> pedals to the bar, then to the rudder. Thus, the rudder is protected from
> simultaneous pressure on both pedals.
>
> BTW, I did not put controls in the front position. I have had too much
> experience with passengers that thought they could fly better than me and
> have taken the airplane away from me in critical situations. An instructor
> on the field has even declared that he will not get into a small airplane if
> he does not have access to the controls. With no controls in the front of
> the Piet, I have no concerns about having to give him a ride. Plus, I saved
> some weight.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry Vetter
> Sent: Monday, January 23, 2012 8:58 PM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Rudder Pedals VS Rudder Bar
>
>
> I know some Pietenpols have rudder pedals for the rear cockpit and some have
> a rudder bar.
> For those that may have flown both types is there a difference in handling
> on the ground or in the air?I would think not in the air so much as ground
> handling....maybe. Thanks
>
> Larry
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=364634#364634
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wood Lift Struts |
| From: | "Jerry Dotson" <jdotson(at)centurylink.net> |
I laminated my struts from red oak, ash, pecan, poplar, Douglas fir, and Magnolia
bay. I used all the different woods purely for looks. I don't know about ultimate
strength but it is a LOT stiffer than a piece of red oak the same size.
Each layer is 1/4" thick.
--------
Jerry Dotson
59 Daniel Johnson Rd
Baker, FL 32531
Started building NX510JD July, 2009
now covering and painting
21" wheels
Lycoming O-235 C2C
Jay Anderson CloudCars prop 76 X 44
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=364739#364739
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/a34_156.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | A Neat Trick for Pietenpol Maintenance |
I know a lot of you are still building your Pietenpols, but we have
quite a
few flying now. One of the great advantages of building your own
airplane
is the ability to do your own inspections, but we don=92t ever seem to
discuss
much how to go about inspecting one. Here=92s a neat trick that I came
up
with today.
One of the tasks that should be done each year at the annual Condition
Inspection is to check and reset the magneto timing on the engine. The
method I=92m going to describe will work on any engine, as long as you
know
where the ignition should be set. On a Continental A65, both magnetos
should be set to 30=B0 BTDC. Continental puts a mark on the propeller
flange
(for some strange reason, they put it on the bottom of the flange, where
it
is nearly impossible to see) that you are supposed to line up with the
split
between the crankcase halves. If you can get it within a couple of
degrees,
you=92re doing pretty well.
Aircraft Spruce sells a nice digital instrument that straps onto the
propeller hub and can be set to zero when the # 1 piston is at top dead
center, and then the prop can be moved to the angle desired before top
dead
center for setting the mag. The digital device is accurate to +/- 0.1
degrees. It also costs $109.85.
Today I was doing an =93Owner Assisted Condition Inspection=94 on my
RV-4, and
decided to see if I could do better than just using the timing marks on
the
back of the starter ring gear against the crankcase split (Aircraft
Spruce
also sells a nice little spring clip pointer that fits Lycoming starter
gears to enable a bit more precision in aligning the timing marks. It
sells
for $41.75). I went to Home Depot and bought a digital level for
$39.95.
It is accurate to +/- 0.1 degrees and has a nice feature in that you can
put
it at any angle, push the =93reset=94 button, and then it will read any
change
in angle from that set position.
Back in the hangar, I pulled the top plugs from each of the cylinders of
the
O-320 in my RV-4. I moved the prop around until the timing marks
indicated
I was close to TDC on the # 1 cylinder. I looked in the spark plug hole
with a flashlight and could easily see the top of the piston. I moved
the
prop back and forth a bit until I was able to determine exactly where
Top
Dead Center was. Then I taped the digital level onto the prop, checked
the
piston again to make sure it had not moved, and reset the level to read
=93
0.0=B0 =94. Now I moved the prop backwards until the level read
=9325.0=94, which
is where the magnetos should fire on an O-320. Once there, it was easy
to
set both magnetos to fire exactly at 25=B0 BTDC. I checked to see where
they
had been set at last year=92s condition inspection (which was done by an
IA at
an FBO) and found that they were both firing at 23.6=B0 BTDC, or nearly
a
degree and a half late.
Here is a picture of the setup:
The setup is very easy and should work for any engine on any airplane.
Total cost - $39.95 plus about 2 cents worth of blue painter=92s tape.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Cardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder Pedals VS Rudder Bar |
I have flown NX18235 from both the front and rear. I much prefer the rudder
bar. It just feels natural.
The geometry explanation given by Tools sounds logical.
If I build another one it will also have a rudder bar.
Greg Cardinal
Minneapolis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Vetter" <vetter(at)evertek.net>
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2012 7:57 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Rudder Pedals VS Rudder Bar
>
> I know some Pietenpols have rudder pedals for the rear cockpit and some
> have a rudder bar.
> For those that may have flown both types is there a difference in handling
> on the ground or in the air?I would think not in the air so much as ground
> handling....maybe. Thanks
>
> Larry
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=364634#364634
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rudder Pedals vs Rudder Bar |
| From: | "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca> |
The front pedals on a plans-built Piet, if connected to the rudder bar with cables,
would be able to fold flat to the floor, if so desired. Folding flat with
brakes is beyond the capabilities of my limited brain. Why would anyone even
want or need brakes in the front?
Making the front pedals adjustable fore and aft would qualify as overkill, I think
(never mind how complicated it might be).
But the throw-over yoke is just silly for a Piet. :)
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=364751#364751
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wood Lift Struts |
| From: | "kevinpurtee" <kevin.purtee(at)us.army.mil> |
Just a thought, kind of a corollary to what Gary said: if you're concerned, follow
the plans. If I had followed the plans I would not be replacing wood struts.
--------
Kevin "Axel" Purtee
NX899KP
Austin/Georgetown, TX
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=364759#364759
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Cardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net> |
Forward from Douwe Blumberg:
Hey everyone
Per a few requests, here's some shots of the new exhaust/muffler/heat
shroud combo. The one shows it kinda on the plane and the other shows
the guts. You can see the back portion is a muffler and the front
portion, being isolated from any gases, will become my heat muff when
wrapped with some stainless door springs or something.
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wood Lift Struts |
| From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
Not wanting to hijack the thread, I just wanted to offer a couple of other threads
that also discussed this topic recently. Hope they are helpful.
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=83802&highlight
This thread describes how I did mine.
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=84475&highlight
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=364781#364781
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ray Krause" <raykrause(at)frontiernet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wood Lift Struts |
Gary,
I know you have published photos of your beautiful attachments for the
spars. Would be so kind as to re-send them and a sketch, or photo, of the
spar make-up?
Thanks,
Ray Krause
Waiex and Sky Scout
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gboothe5" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 11:23 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wood Lift Struts
>
> Lest anyone considering using wood struts were to get squeamish based on
> the
> concerns presented below, let me remind you of the following:
>
> 1) The "pull-through strength" of most woods is well-known and published.
> Clif Dawson presented me with one of these tables, which I have published
> before, and assume can be found in the archives. Interestingly, the
> numbers
> are irrespective of grain direction, and are impressive.
>
> 2) Remember those engine mounts on the front of your plane? They rely
> solely
> on the clamping pressure of 3 #3 bolts, and grain direction is never even
> mentioned; nor does the type of wood seem to matter either, whether
> spruce,
> fir, poplar, pine, etc.
>
> 3) Kevin Purtee just posted the changes he has made, one of which was to
> remove and replace his previous wood struts. Those struts had suffered
> some
> wear, not due to workmanship or design, but with over 200 hours on them.
> Kevin went on to point out that there was zero elongation in the holes,
> and
> his connection design is extremely simple.
>
> Gary from Cool
> NX308MB
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of tools
> Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 9:17 AM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wood Lift Struts
>
>
> It seems to me that the main issue with wood struts is how you attach the
> end fittings. The issue there is preventing elongation of the holes, and
> minimizing any structural integrity issues that may arise if they do.
>
> First, nearly all wood/metal interfaces rely on friction between the
> fitting
> and the wood to prevent the penetrating bolts from relying on shear force.
> The bolt can handle the shear, the metal fitting can handle the shear, the
> wood is clearly the weakest link.
>
> In the case of mounting a wood prop, Sensenich's documentation clearly
> states that the bolts should hold the prop to the shaft and crush plates
> to
> the point that the prop can't rotate and put the bolts in shear, which
> will
> elongate the holes in the prop.
>
>
> In the case of a wood strut, the thing is in tension, so this is
> especially
> important.
>
> Wood moves a lot. It grows and shrinks in all three axises with moisture
> variation. If a board has the growth rings basically parallel to the face
> of the board, it's "flatsawn". It will expand and contract across the
> width
> (in percentage) the most. Next the thickness, and last by a margin is the
> length.
>
> If you turn a flatsawn board into a quartersawn board (like Gary
> describes),
> you will maximize the stability of the board. The metal fitting will not
> change it's width enough to matter. The board will, and will thusly
> elongate the holes accordingly (if the bolts are a tight fit). By using
> quartersawn wood you minimize this.
>
> The only part of the board that matters where a hole goes through it near
> the end, is the little piece between that hole, and the end of the board.
> In the case of quartersawn, it seems that it could much more easily be
> broken out, than if the board were flatsawn.
>
> If you can hang on to a board well enough, flatly pulling it apart is
> simply
> not the issue. If you can stabilize it well enough, so that column
> bucking
> doesn't come into play, flatly squashing it isn't much of an issue either.
>
> If a board is dried correctly, then milled correctly, warpage, cupage and
> twist really aren't a concern (as they are negligable). They don't affect
> the strength of the wood anyway enough to matter.
>
> I think if you can't get wood that at least approches aircraft quality
> (basically meaning no knots and straight grain without major growth
> defects)
> you need to laminate up a piece. I don't think it matters if you laminate
> to width or thickness, just however you like the look or need to for
> available wood. If you do have decent quality wood, I think it's fine as
> a
> solid piece.
>
> No matter how you do it, properly engineered ends and properly installed,
> REALLY REALLY matter.
>
> Tools
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=364695#364695
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gboothe5" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wood Lift Struts |
Ray,
I am assuming that you mean the cabanes, as the wing strut attachments are
not yet complete. #1178 shows the make-up. As soon as my strut fittings are
done, I'll post pics, too.
Gary
NX308MB
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ray Krause
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 9:59 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wood Lift Struts
Gary,
I know you have published photos of your beautiful attachments for the
spars. Would be so kind as to re-send them and a sketch, or photo, of the
spar make-up?
Thanks,
Ray Krause
Waiex and Sky Scout
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gboothe5" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 11:23 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wood Lift Struts
>
> Lest anyone considering using wood struts were to get squeamish based on
> the
> concerns presented below, let me remind you of the following:
>
> 1) The "pull-through strength" of most woods is well-known and published.
> Clif Dawson presented me with one of these tables, which I have published
> before, and assume can be found in the archives. Interestingly, the
> numbers
> are irrespective of grain direction, and are impressive.
>
> 2) Remember those engine mounts on the front of your plane? They rely
> solely
> on the clamping pressure of 3 #3 bolts, and grain direction is never even
> mentioned; nor does the type of wood seem to matter either, whether
> spruce,
> fir, poplar, pine, etc.
>
> 3) Kevin Purtee just posted the changes he has made, one of which was to
> remove and replace his previous wood struts. Those struts had suffered
> some
> wear, not due to workmanship or design, but with over 200 hours on them.
> Kevin went on to point out that there was zero elongation in the holes,
> and
> his connection design is extremely simple.
>
> Gary from Cool
> NX308MB
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of tools
> Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 9:17 AM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wood Lift Struts
>
>
> It seems to me that the main issue with wood struts is how you attach the
> end fittings. The issue there is preventing elongation of the holes, and
> minimizing any structural integrity issues that may arise if they do.
>
> First, nearly all wood/metal interfaces rely on friction between the
> fitting
> and the wood to prevent the penetrating bolts from relying on shear force.
> The bolt can handle the shear, the metal fitting can handle the shear, the
> wood is clearly the weakest link.
>
> In the case of mounting a wood prop, Sensenich's documentation clearly
> states that the bolts should hold the prop to the shaft and crush plates
> to
> the point that the prop can't rotate and put the bolts in shear, which
> will
> elongate the holes in the prop.
>
>
> In the case of a wood strut, the thing is in tension, so this is
> especially
> important.
>
> Wood moves a lot. It grows and shrinks in all three axises with moisture
> variation. If a board has the growth rings basically parallel to the face
> of the board, it's "flatsawn". It will expand and contract across the
> width
> (in percentage) the most. Next the thickness, and last by a margin is the
> length.
>
> If you turn a flatsawn board into a quartersawn board (like Gary
> describes),
> you will maximize the stability of the board. The metal fitting will not
> change it's width enough to matter. The board will, and will thusly
> elongate the holes accordingly (if the bolts are a tight fit). By using
> quartersawn wood you minimize this.
>
> The only part of the board that matters where a hole goes through it near
> the end, is the little piece between that hole, and the end of the board.
> In the case of quartersawn, it seems that it could much more easily be
> broken out, than if the board were flatsawn.
>
> If you can hang on to a board well enough, flatly pulling it apart is
> simply
> not the issue. If you can stabilize it well enough, so that column
> bucking
> doesn't come into play, flatly squashing it isn't much of an issue either.
>
> If a board is dried correctly, then milled correctly, warpage, cupage and
> twist really aren't a concern (as they are negligable). They don't affect
> the strength of the wood anyway enough to matter.
>
> I think if you can't get wood that at least approches aircraft quality
> (basically meaning no knots and straight grain without major growth
> defects)
> you need to laminate up a piece. I don't think it matters if you laminate
> to width or thickness, just however you like the look or need to for
> available wood. If you do have decent quality wood, I think it's fine as
> a
> solid piece.
>
> No matter how you do it, properly engineered ends and properly installed,
> REALLY REALLY matter.
>
> Tools
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=364695#364695
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark Stanley" <mmrally(at)nifty.com> |
| Subject: | The Pietenpol Pre Building Quiz |
Hi Pieters,
Below is a re-write of a quiz that I came across a few years back. I
thought that it was quite good so I would share it around.
Unfortunatly, I can not remember exactly where I got it from, but my
feeling is that it came from the UK Pietenpol Club website.
(If anyone recognizes it, please let me know). Who ever the author is,
they did a well.
Anyway, I will paste it below.
Mark Stanley
Japan
*************************************************************************
*****************
Should You Start Building That Pietenpol?
Are you made of the =1B$B!H=1B(Bright stuff=1B$B!I=1B(B to successfully
build a Pietenpol Air Camper? The following short quiz consists of 4
questions and will tell you whether you are suitable! Scroll down for
each awnser.
The questions are NOT that difficult.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Q1. How do you put a giraffe into a refrigerator?
>>>
The correct answer is: Open the refrigerator, put in the giraffe, and
close the door.
This question tests whether you tend to do simple things in an overly
complicated way.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Q2. How do you put an elephant into a refrigerator?
>>>
Did you say, =1B$B!H=1B(BOpen the refrigerator, put in the elephant, and
close the refrigerator? (Wrong Awnser)
>>>
Correct Awnser: Open the refrigerator, take out the giraffe, put in the
elephant and close the door.
>>>
This tests your ability to think through the repercussions of your
previous actions.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Q3: The Lion King is hosting an animal conference. All the animals
attend except one. Which animal does not attend?
>>>
Correct Awnser: The elephant. The elephant is in the refrigerator. You
just put him there.
>>>
This tests your memory.
OK, even if you did not answer the first three questions correctly, you
still have one more chance to show your true abilities.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
Q4: There is a river you must cross but it is inhabited by crocodiles.
How do you manage it?
>>>
Correct Answer: You swim across. All the crocodiles are attending the
Animal Conference.
>>>
This tests whether you learn quickly from your mistakes.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Now how did you do?
If you got lots right, congratulations, you are a real ace and will go
on to build a beautiful Pietenpol that will fly like a bird.
Construction will probably only take you a couple of years at most.
Whilst you are at it, better make a trophy cabinet with all those
off-cuts of spruce and ply to house all the awards you are going to get.
If you didn=1B$B!G=1B(Bt do too well, have you ever thought about taking
up stamp collecting instead? If you can=1B$B!G=1B(Bt fathom these
questions, how on earth are you going to cope with all the grey areas
that result from building a vintage aircraft design which complies with
modern safety requirements? Still, there=1B$B!G=1B(Bs security in
numbers-Join the club with the rest of us =1B$B!H=1B(Bquiz
dunces=1B$B!I=1B(B and we=1B$B!G=1B(Bll have great fun trying!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Woodflier(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | RE: Clip tip prop and retractible gear |
Bill, I'll through the plans for the retract gear in for free but I don't
recommend the mod.
Matt
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Kevin's new Cloudcars prop
From: "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca>
Hey Matt,
Would that prop come with plans for the retractable Piet landing gear?
Or maybe Kevin doesn't need those plans.
Sorry, guys. Couldn't resist.
Bill C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: The Pietenpol Pre Building Quiz |
| From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
I've never seen that... pretty funny.
For what it's worth, I got all of them wrong. :(
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=364800#364800
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Woodflier(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder pedals vs. rudder bar |
Good discussion on this topic. I went with the rudder bar in the back, with
brake pedals and master cylinders mounted on the fuselage diagonal braces
so that I can reach them with my toes. I got the drawings from Bill Rewey.
This works pretty well. I have rudder pedals, without brakes of course, in
the front seat. I like being able to let my passengers fly. My 14 year old
glider student has been flying some from the front and I think I've made a
convert to Pietenpols in him. I recognize the worry about someone
unqualified grabbing the controls, but I've flown tandem seat glider trainers
from
the back for 30 years and given a lot of glider sightseeing and
familiarization rides, and have never had anyone try to take the contols away
from me.
More the opposite - usually I have to coax someone to actually take the
controls.
One addition I found worthwhile with the rudder bar was to add thin
aluminum or stainless steel plates where your heels rest on the floor. Since with
the rudder bar, you're pushing more with your entire leg rather than your
toes, your heels tend to slide on the floor, and the metal plate reduces
friction, besides providing some protection to the wood floor.
Matt Paxton
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Wilson <jlwilsonnn(at)yahoo.com> |
To all that responded, thanks.
I've decided to go with solid wood. I've got a great hardwood store nearby that
will let me wonder around and pick out whatever I want so I'll try to find some
good pieces.
Of course if I cannot find any good enough I will laminate wood, steel, aluminum,
carbon fiber, polycarbonate plastic and use gorilla glue.
Seriously though, thanks all.
Jeff Wilson
St. Louis
H49
Sent from my iPhone
On Jan 25, 2012, at 9:07 AM, "K5YAC" wrote:
>
> I've never seen that... pretty funny.
>
> For what it's worth, I got all of them wrong. :(
>
> --------
> Mark Chouinard
> Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=364800#364800
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Stewart Systems Question? |
| From: | "Chris Rusch" <rmdinfo(at)lakefield.net> |
I just bought all of the SS supplies to start covering, and watching the video
they say you might want to NOT shrink the material to the full 350 degrees if
the structure is light. Did anyone have any problem going to the full shrink on
a Piet structure? Also, i went with the light 1.7 ceconite uncertified.
Thanks in advance.
Chris
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=364820#364820
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Stewart Systems Question? |
| From: | helspersew(at)aol.com |
Went for the full shrink. The only place I had issues was the rib next to t
he center section (or in my case the space for the tank in the one-piece wi
ng). I didn't have it beefed up enough and it pulled-in.
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN
-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Rusch <rmdinfo(at)lakefield.net>
Sent: Wed, Jan 25, 2012 11:49 am
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Stewart Systems Question?
I just bought all of the SS supplies to start covering, and watching the vi
deo
hey say you might want to NOT shrink the material to the full 350 degrees i
f
he structure is light. Did anyone have any problem going to the full shrink
on
Piet structure? Also, i went with the light 1.7 ceconite uncertified.
Thanks in advance.
Chris
ead this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=364820#364820
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "C N Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> |
| Subject: | Re: The Pietenpol Pre Building Quiz |
Then, Mark, you shouldn't be building a Piet!!! Please don't archive! C
----- Original Message -----
From: "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net>
Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2012 10:07 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: The Pietenpol Pre Building Quiz
>
> I've never seen that... pretty funny.
>
> For what it's worth, I got all of them wrong. :(
>
> --------
> Mark Chouinard
> Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=364800#364800
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "C N Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Stewart Systems Question? |
I see on the list people talking about 1.7 oz Ceconite. Aircraft Spruce
advertises an uncertified light fabric at 1.87 oz for $8.40 per yard, 72
inches wide. Is that what is being called 1.7? I can't find it. C
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Rusch" <rmdinfo(at)lakefield.net>
Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2012 12:45 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Stewart Systems Question?
>
>
> I just bought all of the SS supplies to start covering, and watching the
> video they say you might want to NOT shrink the material to the full 350
> degrees if the structure is light. Did anyone have any problem going to
> the full shrink on a Piet structure? Also, i went with the light 1.7
> ceconite uncertified.
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Chris
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=364820#364820
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Stewart Systems Question? |
| From: | "Chris Rusch" <rmdinfo(at)lakefield.net> |
My Mistake,
It was 1.8 oz i bought from SS direct. The packing list said it was superflight
brand fabric, 72" wide.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=364840#364840
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Stewart Systems Question? |
| From: | "Chris Rusch" <rmdinfo(at)lakefield.net> |
Oh, one more question, my rib tape came and its 3/8" wide, my ribs are 1/2" .........will
3/8 work, or should i get the 1/2" stuff?
Do you guys glue right to the varnished structure, or do you scuff it first with
like 320 grit or a scotch brite pad?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=364841#364841
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "C N Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Stewart Systems Question? |
Chris, I haven't started covering the Piet yet -- I'm just sorta planning
ahead. Really, the tape should be the same width as the rib cap. I
haven't covered any wooden ribs yet, but I did rebuild a Piper PA22/20
several years ago. The flanges on the metal ribs were 1/2 inch wide and I
used 1/2 inch wide tape. As far as gluing to wood surfaces, I haven't seen
anything in the Stewart videos covering working on wood. Seems like if the
glue adheres to shiny metal it should adhere to shiny wood. Good luck. How
about putting some pictures on the list for us to see. Chuck
PS. Incidentally, I'm guessing that when you say SS you mean Aircraft
Spruce, right? C
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Rusch" <rmdinfo(at)lakefield.net>
Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2012 4:15 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Stewart Systems Question?
>
>
> Oh, one more question, my rib tape came and its 3/8" wide, my ribs are
> 1/2" .........will 3/8 work, or should i get the 1/2" stuff?
> Do you guys glue right to the varnished structure, or do you scuff it
> first with like 320 grit or a scotch brite pad?
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=364841#364841
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Stewart Systems Question? |
| From: | "Chris Rusch" <rmdinfo(at)lakefield.net> |
No i bought everything from Stewart Systems, the whole shabang.
I think ill get some 1/2" tape.
I will try and get some pictures posted up tonight.....
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=364846#364846
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Stewart Systems Question? |
The fabric I just used came from Superflite. Their 104 fabric is shown as 1
.7oz, 72" wide. ($6.49/yrd.)
-
If your cap strip is .5", then your reinforcing tape should be as well. It
helps prevent the stitch cord from cutting the cap strip.
-
I was more then impressed with how well the Ekobond adhered to my varnished
wood tail pieces...very strong bond.
-
Download and read the Stewart's manual on their web page...it includes inst
ructions for covering wood structures.
Michael Perez
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Making cowling templates |
| From: | "Chris Rusch" <rmdinfo(at)lakefield.net> |
Here is how i am making the patterns for my cowling. Just layered up masking tape
that will be transfered to aluminum.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=364856#364856
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_2100_199.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_2101_206.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_2102_164.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_2103_202.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au> |
| Subject: | FW: I was piloting the SR-71 spy plane |
Hi Guys,
Not exactly Piet related (speeds are a bit different) but something that
appeared on another list I thought you may be interested in.
Don't know who wrote it or even if it's true but it sure captures the
spirit.
Cheers
Peter
Wonthaggi Australia
*In April 1986, following an attack on American soldiers in a Berlin disco,
President Reagan ordered the bombing of Muammar Qaddafi's terrorist camps in
Libya. My duty was to fly over Libya and take photos recording the damage
our F-111s had inflicted. Qaddafi had established a 'line of death,' a
territorial marking across the Gulf of Sidra, s wearing to shoot down any
intruder that crossed the boundary. On the morning of April 15, I rocketed
past the line at
2,125 mph. I was piloting the SR-71 spy plane, the world's fastest jet,
accompanied by Maj. Walter Watson, the aircraft's reconnaissance systems
officer (RSO). We had crossed into Libya and were approaching our final turn
over the bleak desert landscape when Walter informed me that he was
receiving missile launch signals. I quickly increased our speed, calculating
the time it would take for the weapons-most likely SA-2 and SA-4
surface-to-air missiles capable of Mach 5-to reach our altitude. I estimated
that we could beat the rocket-powered missiles to the turn and stayed our
course, betting our lives on the plane's performance. After several
agonizingly long seconds, we made the turn and blasted toward the
Mediterranean. 'You might want to pull it back,'
Walter suggested. It was then that I noticed I still had the throttles full
f orward. The plane was flying a mile every 1.6 seconds, well above our Mach
3.2 limit. It was the fastest we would ever fly. I pulled the throttles to
idle just south of Sicily, but we still overran the refueling tanker
awaiting us over Gibraltar. Scores of significant aircraft have been
produced in the 100 years of flight following the achievements of the Wright
brothers, which we celebrate in December. Aircraft such as the Boeing 707,
the F-86 Sabre Jet, and the P-51 Mustang are among the important machines
that have flown our skies. But the SR-71, also known as the Blackbird,
stands alone as a significant contributor to Cold War victory and as the
fastest plane ever-and only 93 Air Force pilots ever steered the 'sled,' as
we called our aircraft. As inconceivable as it may sound, I once discarded
the plane. Literally. My first encounter with the SR-71 came when I was 10
years old in the form of molded black plastic in a Revell kit.
Cementing together the long fuselage parts proved tricky, and my finished
product looked less than menacing. Glue,oozing from the seams, discolored
the black plastic. It seemed ungainly alongside the fighter planes in my
collection, and I threw it away. Twenty-nine years later, I stood awe-struck
in a Beale Air Force Base hangar, staring at the very real SR-71 before me.
I had applied to fly the world's fastest jet and was receiving my first
walk-around of our nation's most prestigious aircraft. In my previous 13
years as an Air Force fighter pilot, I had never seen an aircraft with such
presence. At 107 feet long, it appeared big, but far from ungainly.
Ironically, the plane was dripping, much like the misshapen model I had
assembled in my youth. Fuel was seeping through the joints, raining down on
the hangar floor. At Mach 3, the plane would expand several inches because
of the severe temperature, which could heat the leading edge of the wing to
1,100 degrees. To prevent cracking, expansion joints had been built into the
plane. Sealant resembling rubber glue covered the seams, but when the plane
was subsonic, fuel would leak through the joints. The SR-71 was the
brainchild of Kelly Johnson, the famed Lockheed designer who created the
P-38, the F-104 Starfighter, and the U-2. After the Soviets shot down Gary
Powers' U-2 in 1960, Johnson began to develop an aircraft that would fly
three miles higher and five times faster than the spy plane-and still be
capable of photographing your license plate. However, flying at 2,000 mph
would create intense heat on the aircraft's skin. Lockheed engineers used a
titanium alloy to construct more than 90 percent of the SR-71, creating
special tools and manufacturing procedures to hand-build each of the 40
planes. Special heat-resistant fuel, oil, and hydraulic fluids that would
function at 85,000 feet and higher also had to be developed. In 1962, the
first Blackbird successfully flew, and in 1966, the same year I graduated
from high school, the Air Force began flying operational SR-71 missions. I
came to the program in 1983 with a sterling record and a recommendation from
my commander, completing the weeklong interview and meeting Walter, my
partner for the next four years. He would ride four feet behind me, working
all the cameras, radios, and electronic jamming equipment. I joked that if
we were ever captured, he was the spy and I was just the driver. He told me
to keep the pointy end forward. We trained for a year, flying out of Beale
AFB in California, Kadena Airbase in Okinawa, and RAF Mindenhall in England.
On a typical training mission, we would take off near Sacramento, refuel
over Nevada, accelerate into Montana, obtain high Mach over Colorado, turn
right over New Mexico, speed across the Los Angeles Basin, run up the West
Coast, turn right at Seattle , then return to Beale. Total flight time:
two hours and 40 minutes. One day, high above Arizona, we were monitoring
the radio traffic of all the mortal airplanes below us. First, a Cessna
pilot asked the air traffic controllers to check his ground speed. 'Ninety
knots,' ATC replied. A twin Bonanza soon made the same request. 'One-twenty
on the ground,'
was the reply. To our surprise, a navy F-18 came over the radio with a
ground speed check. I knew exactly what he was doing. Of course, he had a
ground speed indicator in his cockpit, but he wanted to let all the
bug-smashers in the valley know what real speed was. 'Dusty 52, we show you
at 620 on the ground,'
ATC responded. The situation was too ripe. I heard the click of Walter's
mike button in the rear seat. In his most innocent voice, Walter startled
the controller by asking for a ground speed check from 81,000 feet, clearly
above controlled airspace. In a cool, professional voice, the controller
replied, 'Aspen 20, I show you at 1,982 knots on the ground.' We did not
hear another transmission on that frequency all the way to the coast. The
Blackbird always showed us something new, each aircraft possessing its own
unique personality. In time, we realized we were flying a national treasure.
When we taxied out of our revetments for takeoff, people took notice.
Traffic congregated near the airfield fences, because everyone wanted to see
and hear the mighty SR-71. You could not be a part of this program and not
come to love the airplane. Slowly, she revealed her secrets to us as we
earned her trust. One moonless night, while flying a routine training
mission over the Pacific, I wondered what the sky would look like from
84,000 feet if the cockpit lighting were dark. While heading home on a
straight course, I slowly turned down all of the lighting, reducing the
glare and revealing the night sky. Within seconds, I turned the lights back
up, fearful that the jet would know and somehow punish me. But my desire to
see the sky overruled my caution, and I dimmed the lighting again. To my
amazement, I saw a bright light outside my window. As my eyes adjusted to
the view, I realized that the brilliance was the broad expanse of the Milky
Way, now a gleaming stripe across the sky. Where dark spaces in the sky had
usually existed, there were now dense clusters of sparkling stars. Shooting
stars flashed across the canvas every few seconds. It was like a fireworks
display with no sound. I knew I had to get my eyes back on the instruments,
and reluctantly I brought my attention back inside. To my surprise, with the
cockpit lighting still off, I could see every gauge, lit by starlight. In
the plane's mirrors, I could see the eerie shine of my gold spacesuit
incandescently illuminated in a celestial glow. I stole one last glance out
the window. Despite our speed, we seemed still before the heavens, humbled
in the radiance of a much greater power. For those few moments, I felt a
part of something far more significant than anything we were doing in the
plane. The sharp sound of Walt's voice on the radio brought me back to the
tasks at hand as I prepared for our descent. The SR-71 was an expensive
aircraft to operate. The most significant cost was tanker support, and in
1990, confronted with budget cutbacks, the Air Force retired the SR-71. The
Blackbird had outrun nearly 4,000 missiles, not once taking a scratch from
enemy fire. On her final flight, the Blackbird, destined for the Smithsonian
National Air and Space Museum, sped from Los Angeles to Washington in 64
minutes, averaging 2,145 mph and setting four speed records. The SR-71
served six presidents, protecting America for a quarter of a century.
Unbeknownst to most of the country, the plane flew over North Vietnam, Red
China, North Korea, t he Middle East, South Africa, Cuba, Nicaragua, Iran,
Libya, and the Falkland Islands. On a weekly basis, the SR-71 kept watch
over every Soviet nuclear submarine and mobile missile site, and all of
their troop movements. It was a key factor in winning the Cold War. I am
proud to say I flew about 500 hours in this aircraft. I knew her well.She
gave way to no plane, proudly dragging her sonic boom through enemy
backyards with great impunity. She defeated every missile, outran every MiG,
and always brought us home. In the first 100 years of manned flight, no
aircraft was more remarkable. With the Libyan coast fast approaching now,
Walt asks me for the third time if I think the jet will get to the speed and
altitude we want in time. I tell him yes. I know he is concerned. He is
dealing with the data; that's what engineers do, and I am glad he is. But I
have my hands on the stick and throttles and can feel the heart of a
thoroughbred, running now with the power and perfection she was designed to
possess. I also talk to her. Like the combat veteran she is, the jet senses
the target area and seems to prepare herself. For the first time in two
days, the inlet door closes flush and all vibration is gone. We've become so
used to the constant buzzing that the jet sounds quiet now in comparison.
The Mach correspondingly increases slightly and the jet is flying in that
confidently smooth and steady style we have so often seen at these speeds.
We reach our target altitude and speed, with five miles to spare. Entering
the target area, in response to the jet's new-found vitality, Walt says,
'That's amazing' and with my left hand pushing two throttles farther
forward, I think to myself that there is much they don't teach in
engineering school. Out my left window, Libya looks like one huge sandbox. A
featureless brown terrain stretches all the way to the horizon. There is no
sign of any activity. Then Walt tells me that he is getting lots of
electronic signals, and they are not the friendly kind. The jet is
performing perfectly now, flying better than she has in weeks.
She seems to know where she is. She likes the high Mach, as we penetrate
deeper into Libyan airspace. Leaving the footprint of our sonic boom across
Benghazi, I sit motionless, with stilled hands on throttles and the pitch
control, my eyes glued to the gauges. Only the Mach indicator is moving,
steadily increasing in hundredths, in a rhythmic consistency similar to the
long distance runner who has caught his second wind and picked up the pace.
The jet was made for this kind of performance and she wasn't about to let an
errant inlet door make her miss the show. With the power of forty
locomotives, we puncture the quiet African sky and continue farther south
across a bleak landscape. Walt continues to update me with numerous
reactions he sees on th e DEF panel. He is receiving missile tracking
signals. With each mile we traverse, every two seconds, I become more
uncomfortable driving deeper into this barren and hostile land. I am glad
the DEF panel is not in the front seat. It would be a big distraction now,
seeing the lights flashing. In contrast, my cockpit is 'quiet' as the jet
purrs and relishes her new-found strength, continuing to slowly accelerate.
The spikes are full aft now, tucked twenty-six inches deep into the
nacelles. With all inlet doors tightly shut, at 3.24 Mach, the J-58s are
more like ramjets now, gulping 100,000 cubic feet of air per second. We are
a roaring express now, and as we roll through the enemy's backyard, I hope
our speed continues to defeat the missile radars below. We are approaching a
turn, and this is good. It will only make it more difficult for any launched
missile to solve the solution for hitting our aircraft. I push the speed up
at Walt's re quest. The jet does not skip a beat, nothing fluctuates, and
the cameras have a rock steady platform.
Walt received missile launch signals. Before he can say anything else, my
left hand instinctively moves the throttles yet farther forward. My eyes are
glued to temperature gauges now, as I know the jet will willingly go to
speeds that can harm her. The temps are relatively cool and from all the
warm temps we've encountered thus far, this surprises me but then, it really
doesn't surprise me.
Mach 3.31 and Walt are quiet for the moment. I move my gloved finder across
the small silver wheel on the autopilot panel which controls the aircraft's
pitch.
With the deft feel known to Swiss watchmakers, surgeons, and 'dinosaurs'
(old-time pilots who not only fly an airplane but 'feel it') I rotate the
pitch wheel somewhere between one-sixteenth and one-eighth inch, location a
position which yields the 500-foot-per-minute climb I desire. The jet raises
her nose one-sixth of a degree and knows I'll push her higher as she goes
faster. The Mach continues to rise, but during this segment of our route, I
am in no mood to pull throttles back. Walt's voice pierces the quiet of my
cockpit with the news of more missile launch signals. The gravity of
Walter's voice tells me that he believes the signals to be a more valid
threat than the others. Within seconds he tells me to 'push it up' and I
firmly press both throttles against their stops. For the next few second I
will let the jet go as fast as she wants. A final turn is coming up and we
both know that if we can hit that turn at this speed, we most likely will
defeat any missiles. We are not there yet, though, and I'm wondering if Walt
will call for a defensive turn off our course. With no words spoken, I sense
Walter is thinking in concert with me about maintaining our programmed
course. To keep from worrying, I glance outside, wondering if I'll be able
to visually pick up a missile aimed at us. Odd are the thoughts that wander
through one's mind in times like these. I found myself recalling the words
of former SR-71 pilots who were fired upon while flying missions over North
Vietnam. They said the few errant missile detonations they were able to
observe from the cockpit looked like implosions rather than explosions. This
was due to the great speed at which the jet was hurling away from the
exploding missile. I see nothing outside except the endless expanse of a
steel blue sky and the broad patch of tan earth far below. I have only had
my eyes out of the cockpit for seconds, but it seems like many minutes since
I have last checked the gauges inside. Returning my attention inward, I
glance first at the miles counter telling me how many more to go until we
can start our turn. Then I note the Mach, and passing beyond 3.45, I realize
that Walter and I have attained new personal records. The Mach continues to
increase. The ride is incredibly smooth.
There seems to be a confirmed trust now, between me and the jet; she will
not hesitate to deliver whatever speed we need, and I can count on no
problems with the inlets. Walt and I are ultimately depending on the jet now
- more so than normal - and she seems to know it. The cooler outside
temperatures have awakened the spirit born into her years ago, when men
dedicated to excellence took the time and care to build her well. With
spikes and doors as tight as they can get we are racing against the time it
could take a missile to reach our altitude. It is a race this jet will not
let us lose. The Mach eases to 3.5 as we crest
80,000 feet. We are a bullet now - except faster. We hit the turn, and I
feel some relief as our nose swings away from a country we have seen quite
enough of.
Screaming past Tripoli, our phenomenal speed continues to rise, and the
screaming Sled pummels the enemy one more time, laying down a parting sonic
boom. In seconds, we can see nothing but the expansive blue of the
Mediterranean .I realize that I still have my left hand full-forward and
we're continuing to rocket along in maximum afterburner. The TDI now shows
us Mach numbers not only new to our experience but flat out scary. Walt says
the DEF panel is now quiet and I know it is time to reduce our incredible
speed. I pull the throttles to the min 'burner range and the jet still
doesn't want to slow down. Normally, the Mach would be affected immediately
when making such a large throttle movement.
But for just a few moments, old 960 just sat out there at the high Mach she
seemed to love and, like the proud Sled she was, only began to slow when we
were well out of danger. I loved that jet. Brian Shul *
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ray Krause" <raykrause(at)frontiernet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wood Lift Struts |
Thanks, Gary. No hurry, since I have not started the wing, yet!
Ray Krause
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gboothe5" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2012 5:42 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wood Lift Struts
> Ray,
>
> I am assuming that you mean the cabanes, as the wing strut attachments are
> not yet complete. #1178 shows the make-up. As soon as my strut fittings
> are
> done, I'll post pics, too.
>
> Gary
> NX308MB
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ray Krause
> Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 9:59 PM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wood Lift Struts
>
>
>
> Gary,
>
> I know you have published photos of your beautiful attachments for the
> spars. Would be so kind as to re-send them and a sketch, or photo, of the
> spar make-up?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ray Krause
> Waiex and Sky Scout
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Gboothe5" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
> To:
> Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 11:23 AM
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wood Lift Struts
>
>
>>
>> Lest anyone considering using wood struts were to get squeamish based on
>> the
>> concerns presented below, let me remind you of the following:
>>
>> 1) The "pull-through strength" of most woods is well-known and published.
>> Clif Dawson presented me with one of these tables, which I have published
>> before, and assume can be found in the archives. Interestingly, the
>> numbers
>> are irrespective of grain direction, and are impressive.
>>
>> 2) Remember those engine mounts on the front of your plane? They rely
>> solely
>> on the clamping pressure of 3 #3 bolts, and grain direction is never even
>> mentioned; nor does the type of wood seem to matter either, whether
>> spruce,
>> fir, poplar, pine, etc.
>>
>> 3) Kevin Purtee just posted the changes he has made, one of which was to
>> remove and replace his previous wood struts. Those struts had suffered
>> some
>> wear, not due to workmanship or design, but with over 200 hours on them.
>> Kevin went on to point out that there was zero elongation in the holes,
>> and
>> his connection design is extremely simple.
>>
>> Gary from Cool
>> NX308MB
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of tools
>> Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 9:17 AM
>> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wood Lift Struts
>>
>>
>> It seems to me that the main issue with wood struts is how you attach the
>> end fittings. The issue there is preventing elongation of the holes, and
>> minimizing any structural integrity issues that may arise if they do.
>>
>> First, nearly all wood/metal interfaces rely on friction between the
>> fitting
>> and the wood to prevent the penetrating bolts from relying on shear
>> force.
>> The bolt can handle the shear, the metal fitting can handle the shear,
>> the
>> wood is clearly the weakest link.
>>
>> In the case of mounting a wood prop, Sensenich's documentation clearly
>> states that the bolts should hold the prop to the shaft and crush plates
>> to
>> the point that the prop can't rotate and put the bolts in shear, which
>> will
>> elongate the holes in the prop.
>>
>>
>>
>> In the case of a wood strut, the thing is in tension, so this is
>> especially
>> important.
>>
>> Wood moves a lot. It grows and shrinks in all three axises with moisture
>> variation. If a board has the growth rings basically parallel to the
>> face
>> of the board, it's "flatsawn". It will expand and contract across the
>> width
>> (in percentage) the most. Next the thickness, and last by a margin is
>> the
>> length.
>>
>> If you turn a flatsawn board into a quartersawn board (like Gary
>> describes),
>> you will maximize the stability of the board. The metal fitting will not
>> change it's width enough to matter. The board will, and will thusly
>> elongate the holes accordingly (if the bolts are a tight fit). By using
>> quartersawn wood you minimize this.
>>
>> The only part of the board that matters where a hole goes through it near
>> the end, is the little piece between that hole, and the end of the board.
>> In the case of quartersawn, it seems that it could much more easily be
>> broken out, than if the board were flatsawn.
>>
>> If you can hang on to a board well enough, flatly pulling it apart is
>> simply
>> not the issue. If you can stabilize it well enough, so that column
>> bucking
>> doesn't come into play, flatly squashing it isn't much of an issue
>> either.
>>
>> If a board is dried correctly, then milled correctly, warpage, cupage and
>> twist really aren't a concern (as they are negligable). They don't
>> affect
>> the strength of the wood anyway enough to matter.
>>
>> I think if you can't get wood that at least approches aircraft quality
>> (basically meaning no knots and straight grain without major growth
>> defects)
>> you need to laminate up a piece. I don't think it matters if you
>> laminate
>> to width or thickness, just however you like the look or need to for
>> available wood. If you do have decent quality wood, I think it's fine as
>> a
>> solid piece.
>>
>> No matter how you do it, properly engineered ends and properly installed,
>> REALLY REALLY matter.
>>
>> Tools
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=364695#364695
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "899PM" <rockriverrifle(at)hotmail.com> |
What is the general consensus on number of braced wing bays? Seems like I remember
reading that several of you put 3 or 4 braced bays per wing panel(3pc wing)
and were glad that you did?
--------
PAPA MIKE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=364871#364871
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
I built it per the plans, with two braced bays in each wing. Unless you
want a much higher VNE, there's no reason to go with more.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of 899PM
Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2012 9:03 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: WING BAYS?
What is the general consensus on number of braced wing bays? Seems like I
remember reading that several of you put 3 or 4 braced bays per wing
panel(3pc wing) and were glad that you did?
--------
PAPA MIKE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=364871#364871
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | pics of exhaust/muffler/heat muff |
Sorry if these already came through, but if not, here are the photos
pertaining to my post of yesterday of my exhaust/muffler/heat muff combo.
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: FW: I was piloting the SR-71 spy plane |
Major Brian Shul is the author of Sled Driver, a fascinating account of his
experiences as a pilot of the SR-71 Blackbird. The book has been out of pr
int for two years now, but now you can buy one of the 3,500 limited edition
copies=94signed by Shul and other SR-71 legends=94here. There
are only a few left, so hurry up.
-----Original Message-----
From: Peter W Johnson <vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au>
Sent: Wed, Jan 25, 2012 11:30 pm
Subject: Pietenpol-List: FW: I was piloting the SR-71 spy plane
.au>
Hi Guys,
Not exactly Piet related (speeds are a bit different) but something that
appeared on another list I thought you may be interested in.
Don't know who wrote it or even if it's true but it sure captures the
spirit.
Cheers
Peter
Wonthaggi Australia
*In April 1986, following an attack on American soldiers in a Berlin disco,
President Reagan ordered the bombing of Muammar Qaddafi's terrorist camps i
n
Libya. My duty was to fly over Libya and take photos recording the damage
our F-111s had inflicted. Qaddafi had established a 'line of death,' a
territorial marking across the Gulf of Sidra, s wearing to shoot down any
intruder that crossed the boundary. On the morning of April 15, I rocketed
past the line at
2,125 mph. I was piloting the SR-71 spy plane, the world's fastest jet,
accompanied by Maj. Walter Watson, the aircraft's reconnaissance systems
officer (RSO). We had crossed into Libya and were approaching our final tur
n
over the bleak desert landscape when Walter informed me that he was
receiving missile launch signals. I quickly increased our speed, calculatin
g
the time it would take for the weapons-most likely SA-2 and SA-4
surface-to-air missiles capable of Mach 5-to reach our altitude. I estimate
d
that we could beat the rocket-powered missiles to the turn and stayed our
course, betting our lives on the plane's performance. After several
agonizingly long seconds, we made the turn and blasted toward the
Mediterranean. 'You might want to pull it back,'
Walter suggested. It was then that I noticed I still had the throttles full
f orward. The plane was flying a mile every 1.6 seconds, well above our Mac
h
3.2 limit. It was the fastest we would ever fly. I pulled the throttles to
idle just south of Sicily, but we still overran the refueling tanker
awaiting us over Gibraltar. Scores of significant aircraft have been
produced in the 100 years of flight following the achievements of the Wrigh
t
brothers, which we celebrate in December. Aircraft such as the Boeing 707,
the F-86 Sabre Jet, and the P-51 Mustang are among the important machines
that have flown our skies. But the SR-71, also known as the Blackbird,
stands alone as a significant contributor to Cold War victory and as the
fastest plane ever-and only 93 Air Force pilots ever steered the 'sled,' as
we called our aircraft. As inconceivable as it may sound, I once discarded
the plane. Literally. My first encounter with the SR-71 came when I was 10
years old in the form of molded black plastic in a Revell kit.
Cementing together the long fuselage parts proved tricky, and my finished
product looked less than menacing. Glue,oozing from the seams, discolored
the black plastic. It seemed ungainly alongside the fighter planes in my
collection, and I threw it away. Twenty-nine years later, I stood awe-struc
k
in a Beale Air Force Base hangar, staring at the very real SR-71 before me.
I had applied to fly the world's fastest jet and was receiving my first
walk-around of our nation's most prestigious aircraft. In my previous 13
years as an Air Force fighter pilot, I had never seen an aircraft with such
presence. At 107 feet long, it appeared big, but far from ungainly.
Ironically, the plane was dripping, much like the misshapen model I had
assembled in my youth. Fuel was seeping through the joints, raining down on
the hangar floor. At Mach 3, the plane would expand several inches because
of the severe temperature, which could heat the leading edge of the wing to
1,100 degrees. To prevent cracking, expansion joints had been built into th
e
plane. Sealant resembling rubber glue covered the seams, but when the plane
was subsonic, fuel would leak through the joints. The SR-71 was the
brainchild of Kelly Johnson, the famed Lockheed designer who created the
P-38, the F-104 Starfighter, and the U-2. After the Soviets shot down Gary
Powers' U-2 in 1960, Johnson began to develop an aircraft that would fly
three miles higher and five times faster than the spy plane-and still be
capable of photographing your license plate. However, flying at 2,000 mph
would create intense heat on the aircraft's skin. Lockheed engineers used a
titanium alloy to construct more than 90 percent of the SR-71, creating
special tools and manufacturing procedures to hand-build each of the 40
planes. Special heat-resistant fuel, oil, and hydraulic fluids that would
function at 85,000 feet and higher also had to be developed. In 1962, the
first Blackbird successfully flew, and in 1966, the same year I graduated
from high school, the Air Force began flying operational SR-71 missions. I
came to the program in 1983 with a sterling record and a recommendation fro
m
my commander, completing the weeklong interview and meeting Walter, my
partner for the next four years. He would ride four feet behind me, working
all the cameras, radios, and electronic jamming equipment. I joked that if
we were ever captured, he was the spy and I was just the driver. He told me
to keep the pointy end forward. We trained for a year, flying out of Beale
AFB in California, Kadena Airbase in Okinawa, and RAF Mindenhall in England
.
On a typical training mission, we would take off near Sacramento, refuel
over Nevada, accelerate into Montana, obtain high Mach over Colorado, turn
right over New Mexico, speed across the Los Angeles Basin, run up the West
Coast, turn right at Seattle , then return to Beale. Total flight time:
two hours and 40 minutes. One day, high above Arizona, we were monitoring
the radio traffic of all the mortal airplanes below us. First, a Cessna
pilot asked the air traffic controllers to check his ground speed. 'Ninety
knots,' ATC replied. A twin Bonanza soon made the same request. 'One-twenty
on the ground,'
was the reply. To our surprise, a navy F-18 came over the radio with a
ground speed check. I knew exactly what he was doing. Of course, he had a
ground speed indicator in his cockpit, but he wanted to let all the
bug-smashers in the valley know what real speed was. 'Dusty 52, we show you
at 620 on the ground,'
ATC responded. The situation was too ripe. I heard the click of Walter's
mike button in the rear seat. In his most innocent voice, Walter startled
the controller by asking for a ground speed check from 81,000 feet, clearly
above controlled airspace. In a cool, professional voice, the controller
replied, 'Aspen 20, I show you at 1,982 knots on the ground.' We did not
hear another transmission on that frequency all the way to the coast. The
Blackbird always showed us something new, each aircraft possessing its own
unique personality. In time, we realized we were flying a national treasure
.
When we taxied out of our revetments for takeoff, people took notice.
Traffic congregated near the airfield fences, because everyone wanted to se
e
and hear the mighty SR-71. You could not be a part of this program and not
come to love the airplane. Slowly, she revealed her secrets to us as we
earned her trust. One moonless night, while flying a routine training
mission over the Pacific, I wondered what the sky would look like from
84,000 feet if the cockpit lighting were dark. While heading home on a
straight course, I slowly turned down all of the lighting, reducing the
glare and revealing the night sky. Within seconds, I turned the lights back
up, fearful that the jet would know and somehow punish me. But my desire to
see the sky overruled my caution, and I dimmed the lighting again. To my
amazement, I saw a bright light outside my window. As my eyes adjusted to
the view, I realized that the brilliance was the broad expanse of the Milky
Way, now a gleaming stripe across the sky. Where dark spaces in the sky had
usually existed, there were now dense clusters of sparkling stars. Shooting
stars flashed across the canvas every few seconds. It was like a fireworks
display with no sound. I knew I had to get my eyes back on the instruments,
and reluctantly I brought my attention back inside. To my surprise, with th
e
cockpit lighting still off, I could see every gauge, lit by starlight. In
the plane's mirrors, I could see the eerie shine of my gold spacesuit
incandescently illuminated in a celestial glow. I stole one last glance out
the window. Despite our speed, we seemed still before the heavens, humbled
in the radiance of a much greater power. For those few moments, I felt a
part of something far more significant than anything we were doing in the
plane. The sharp sound of Walt's voice on the radio brought me back to the
tasks at hand as I prepared for our descent. The SR-71 was an expensive
aircraft to operate. The most significant cost was tanker support, and in
1990, confronted with budget cutbacks, the Air Force retired the SR-71. The
Blackbird had outrun nearly 4,000 missiles, not once taking a scratch from
enemy fire. On her final flight, the Blackbird, destined for the Smithsonia
n
National Air and Space Museum, sped from Los Angeles to Washington in 64
minutes, averaging 2,145 mph and setting four speed records. The SR-71
served six presidents, protecting America for a quarter of a century.
Unbeknownst to most of the country, the plane flew over North Vietnam, Red
China, North Korea, t he Middle East, South Africa, Cuba, Nicaragua, Iran,
Libya, and the Falkland Islands. On a weekly basis, the SR-71 kept watch
over every Soviet nuclear submarine and mobile missile site, and all of
their troop movements. It was a key factor in winning the Cold War. I am
proud to say I flew about 500 hours in this aircraft. I knew her well.She
gave way to no plane, proudly dragging her sonic boom through enemy
backyards with great impunity. She defeated every missile, outran every MiG
,
and always brought us home. In the first 100 years of manned flight, no
aircraft was more remarkable. With the Libyan coast fast approaching now,
Walt asks me for the third time if I think the jet will get to the speed an
d
altitude we want in time. I tell him yes. I know he is concerned. He is
dealing with the data; that's what engineers do, and I am glad he is. But I
have my hands on the stick and throttles and can feel the heart of a
thoroughbred, running now with the power and perfection she was designed to
possess. I also talk to her. Like the combat veteran she is, the jet senses
the target area and seems to prepare herself. For the first time in two
days, the inlet door closes flush and all vibration is gone. We've become s
o
used to the constant buzzing that the jet sounds quiet now in comparison.
The Mach correspondingly increases slightly and the jet is flying in that
confidently smooth and steady style we have so often seen at these speeds.
We reach our target altitude and speed, with five miles to spare. Entering
the target area, in response to the jet's new-found vitality, Walt says,
'That's amazing' and with my left hand pushing two throttles farther
forward, I think to myself that there is much they don't teach in
engineering school. Out my left window, Libya looks like one huge sandbox.
A
featureless brown terrain stretches all the way to the horizon. There is no
sign of any activity. Then Walt tells me that he is getting lots of
electronic signals, and they are not the friendly kind. The jet is
performing perfectly now, flying better than she has in weeks.
She seems to know where she is. She likes the high Mach, as we penetrate
deeper into Libyan airspace. Leaving the footprint of our sonic boom across
Benghazi, I sit motionless, with stilled hands on throttles and the pitch
control, my eyes glued to the gauges. Only the Mach indicator is moving,
steadily increasing in hundredths, in a rhythmic consistency similar to the
long distance runner who has caught his second wind and picked up the pace.
The jet was made for this kind of performance and she wasn't about to let a
n
errant inlet door make her miss the show. With the power of forty
locomotives, we puncture the quiet African sky and continue farther south
across a bleak landscape. Walt continues to update me with numerous
reactions he sees on th e DEF panel. He is receiving missile tracking
signals. With each mile we traverse, every two seconds, I become more
uncomfortable driving deeper into this barren and hostile land. I am glad
the DEF panel is not in the front seat. It would be a big distraction now,
seeing the lights flashing. In contrast, my cockpit is 'quiet' as the jet
purrs and relishes her new-found strength, continuing to slowly accelerate.
The spikes are full aft now, tucked twenty-six inches deep into the
nacelles. With all inlet doors tightly shut, at 3.24 Mach, the J-58s are
more like ramjets now, gulping 100,000 cubic feet of air per second. We are
a roaring express now, and as we roll through the enemy's backyard, I hope
our speed continues to defeat the missile radars below. We are approaching
a
turn, and this is good. It will only make it more difficult for any launche
d
missile to solve the solution for hitting our aircraft. I push the speed up
at Walt's re quest. The jet does not skip a beat, nothing fluctuates, and
the cameras have a rock steady platform.
Walt received missile launch signals. Before he can say anything else, my
left hand instinctively moves the throttles yet farther forward. My eyes ar
e
glued to temperature gauges now, as I know the jet will willingly go to
speeds that can harm her. The temps are relatively cool and from all the
warm temps we've encountered thus far, this surprises me but then, it reall
y
doesn't surprise me.
Mach 3.31 and Walt are quiet for the moment. I move my gloved finder across
the small silver wheel on the autopilot panel which controls the aircraft's
pitch.
With the deft feel known to Swiss watchmakers, surgeons, and 'dinosaurs'
(old-time pilots who not only fly an airplane but 'feel it') I rotate the
pitch wheel somewhere between one-sixteenth and one-eighth inch, location a
position which yields the 500-foot-per-minute climb I desire. The jet raise
s
her nose one-sixth of a degree and knows I'll push her higher as she goes
faster. The Mach continues to rise, but during this segment of our route, I
am in no mood to pull throttles back. Walt's voice pierces the quiet of my
cockpit with the news of more missile launch signals. The gravity of
Walter's voice tells me that he believes the signals to be a more valid
threat than the others. Within seconds he tells me to 'push it up' and I
firmly press both throttles against their stops. For the next few second I
will let the jet go as fast as she wants. A final turn is coming up and we
both know that if we can hit that turn at this speed, we most likely will
defeat any missiles. We are not there yet, though, and I'm wondering if Wal
t
will call for a defensive turn off our course. With no words spoken, I sens
e
Walter is thinking in concert with me about maintaining our programmed
course. To keep from worrying, I glance outside, wondering if I'll be able
to visually pick up a missile aimed at us. Odd are the thoughts that wander
through one's mind in times like these. I found myself recalling the words
of former SR-71 pilots who were fired upon while flying missions over North
Vietnam. They said the few errant missile detonations they were able to
observe from the cockpit looked like implosions rather than explosions. Thi
s
was due to the great speed at which the jet was hurling away from the
exploding missile. I see nothing outside except the endless expanse of a
steel blue sky and the broad patch of tan earth far below. I have only had
my eyes out of the cockpit for seconds, but it seems like many minutes sinc
e
I have last checked the gauges inside. Returning my attention inward, I
glance first at the miles counter telling me how many more to go until we
can start our turn. Then I note the Mach, and passing beyond 3.45, I realiz
e
that Walter and I have attained new personal records. The Mach continues to
increase. The ride is incredibly smooth.
There seems to be a confirmed trust now, between me and the jet; she will
not hesitate to deliver whatever speed we need, and I can count on no
problems with the inlets. Walt and I are ultimately depending on the jet no
w
- more so than normal - and she seems to know it. The cooler outside
temperatures have awakened the spirit born into her years ago, when men
dedicated to excellence took the time and care to build her well. With
spikes and doors as tight as they can get we are racing against the time it
could take a missile to reach our altitude. It is a race this jet will not
let us lose. The Mach eases to 3.5 as we crest
80,000 feet. We are a bullet now - except faster. We hit the turn, and I
feel some relief as our nose swings away from a country we have seen quite
enough of.
Screaming past Tripoli, our phenomenal speed continues to rise, and the
screaming Sled pummels the enemy one more time, laying down a parting sonic
boom. In seconds, we can see nothing but the expansive blue of the
Mediterranean .I realize that I still have my left hand full-forward and
we're continuing to rocket along in maximum afterburner. The TDI now shows
us Mach numbers not only new to our experience but flat out scary. Walt say
s
the DEF panel is now quiet and I know it is time to reduce our incredible
speed. I pull the throttles to the min 'burner range and the jet still
doesn't want to slow down. Normally, the Mach would be affected immediately
when making such a large throttle movement.
But for just a few moments, old 960 just sat out there at the high Mach she
seemed to love and, like the proud Sled she was, only began to slow when we
were well out of danger. I loved that jet. Brian Shul *
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: pics of exhaust/muffler/heat muff |
| From: | helspersew(at)aol.com |
Douwe,
I love the shape of your cowl. So many of the "aircraft engine" Piets look
a little odd in the front. (don't kill the messenger)
Can't wait to see it in person with that very cool exhaust stack set-up!!!
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN
-----Original Message-----
From: Douwe Blumberg <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Sent: Thu, Jan 26, 2012 9:41 am
Subject: Pietenpol-List: pics of exhaust/muffler/heat muff
Sorry if these already came through, but if not, here are the photos pertai
ning to my post of yesterday of my exhaust/muffler/heat muff combo.
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Cardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net> |
I can think of no good reason to deviate from the plans and increase the
number of braced bays in the wing.
I don't know any builders who have done this.
Greg Cardinal
Minneapolis
----- Original Message -----
From: "899PM" <rockriverrifle(at)hotmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2012 8:02 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: WING BAYS?
>
> What is the general consensus on number of braced wing bays? Seems like I
> remember reading that several of you put 3 or 4 braced bays per wing
> panel(3pc wing) and were glad that you did?
>
> --------
> PAPA MIKE
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=364871#364871
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Clif Dawson" <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: pics of exhaust/muffler/heat muff |
Looks quite WW1 Bavarian. :-)
Does your helmet have a spike on it Herr Blumberg??
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slPIuoqHQZo&feature=related
Clif
> Douwe,
> I love the shape of your cowl. So many of the "aircraft engine" Piets look
> a little odd in the front. (don't kill the messenger)
> Dan Helsper
> Puryear, TN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | johnwoods(at)westnet.com.au |
| Subject: | Re: Stewart Systems Question? |
I was wondering what the Stewart System video was and found this.
http://www.youtube.com/user/stewartsystems?feature=watch
Hope the link works.
John Woods
Perth, Australia
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "H. Marvin Haught" <handainc(at)madisoncounty.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Stewart Systems Question? |
There is an 8 DVD set of instructional videos available for $20, which
is refundable with your first order (remind us when you make your order)
that takes you step by step through the covering process with the
system. It also has a full copy of the STC. Also, if several of you
want to order a DVD set, there is no problem if you want to copy the
DVD's.
M. Haught
Aircraft Fabric & Finishes. LLC
On Jan 27, 2012, at 9:00 AM, johnwoods(at)westnet.com.au wrote:
> I was wondering what the Stewart System video was and found this.
>
> http://www.youtube.com/user/stewartsystems?feature=watch
>
> Hope the link works.
>
> John Woods
> Perth, Australia
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "C N Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> |
| Subject: | Re: FW: I was piloting the SR-71 spy plane |
Peter, I had read that on the 'net before but I read and enjoyed it again.
I just can't imagine going that fast and that high. My limit (in a
propellor driven aircraft) was about 25,000 feet and 300 knots -- a lot
slower and lower than the article describes. C
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au>
Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2012 11:27 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: FW: I was piloting the SR-71 spy plane
>
>
> Hi Guys,
>
> Not exactly Piet related (speeds are a bit different) but something that
> appeared on another list I thought you may be interested in.
>
> Don't know who wrote it or even if it's true but it sure captures the
> spirit.
>
> Cheers
>
> Peter
> Wonthaggi Australia
>
>
> *In April 1986, following an attack on American soldiers in a Berlin
> disco,
> President Reagan ordered the bombing of Muammar Qaddafi's terrorist camps
> in
> Libya. My duty was to fly over Libya and take photos recording the damage
> our F-111s had inflicted. Qaddafi had established a 'line of death,' a
> territorial marking across the Gulf of Sidra, s wearing to shoot down any
> intruder that crossed the boundary. On the morning of April 15, I rocketed
> past the line at
> 2,125 mph. I was piloting the SR-71 spy plane, the world's fastest jet,
> accompanied by Maj. Walter Watson, the aircraft's reconnaissance systems
> officer (RSO). We had crossed into Libya and were approaching our final
> turn
> over the bleak desert landscape when Walter informed me that he was
> receiving missile launch signals. I quickly increased our speed,
> calculating
> the time it would take for the weapons-most likely SA-2 and SA-4
> surface-to-air missiles capable of Mach 5-to reach our altitude. I
> estimated
> that we could beat the rocket-powered missiles to the turn and stayed our
> course, betting our lives on the plane's performance. After several
> agonizingly long seconds, we made the turn and blasted toward the
> Mediterranean. 'You might want to pull it back,'
> Walter suggested. It was then that I noticed I still had the throttles
> full
> f orward. The plane was flying a mile every 1.6 seconds, well above our
> Mach
> 3.2 limit. It was the fastest we would ever fly. I pulled the throttles to
> idle just south of Sicily, but we still overran the refueling tanker
> awaiting us over Gibraltar. Scores of significant aircraft have been
> produced in the 100 years of flight following the achievements of the
> Wright
> brothers, which we celebrate in December. Aircraft such as the Boeing 707,
> the F-86 Sabre Jet, and the P-51 Mustang are among the important machines
> that have flown our skies. But the SR-71, also known as the Blackbird,
> stands alone as a significant contributor to Cold War victory and as the
> fastest plane ever-and only 93 Air Force pilots ever steered the 'sled,'
> as
> we called our aircraft. As inconceivable as it may sound, I once discarded
> the plane. Literally. My first encounter with the SR-71 came when I was 10
> years old in the form of molded black plastic in a Revell kit.
> Cementing together the long fuselage parts proved tricky, and my finished
> product looked less than menacing. Glue,oozing from the seams, discolored
> the black plastic. It seemed ungainly alongside the fighter planes in my
> collection, and I threw it away. Twenty-nine years later, I stood
> awe-struck
> in a Beale Air Force Base hangar, staring at the very real SR-71 before
> me.
> I had applied to fly the world's fastest jet and was receiving my first
> walk-around of our nation's most prestigious aircraft. In my previous 13
> years as an Air Force fighter pilot, I had never seen an aircraft with
> such
> presence. At 107 feet long, it appeared big, but far from ungainly.
> Ironically, the plane was dripping, much like the misshapen model I had
> assembled in my youth. Fuel was seeping through the joints, raining down
> on
> the hangar floor. At Mach 3, the plane would expand several inches because
> of the severe temperature, which could heat the leading edge of the wing
> to
> 1,100 degrees. To prevent cracking, expansion joints had been built into
> the
> plane. Sealant resembling rubber glue covered the seams, but when the
> plane
> was subsonic, fuel would leak through the joints. The SR-71 was the
> brainchild of Kelly Johnson, the famed Lockheed designer who created the
> P-38, the F-104 Starfighter, and the U-2. After the Soviets shot down Gary
> Powers' U-2 in 1960, Johnson began to develop an aircraft that would fly
> three miles higher and five times faster than the spy plane-and still be
> capable of photographing your license plate. However, flying at 2,000 mph
> would create intense heat on the aircraft's skin. Lockheed engineers used
> a
> titanium alloy to construct more than 90 percent of the SR-71, creating
> special tools and manufacturing procedures to hand-build each of the 40
> planes. Special heat-resistant fuel, oil, and hydraulic fluids that would
> function at 85,000 feet and higher also had to be developed. In 1962, the
> first Blackbird successfully flew, and in 1966, the same year I graduated
> from high school, the Air Force began flying operational SR-71 missions. I
> came to the program in 1983 with a sterling record and a recommendation
> from
> my commander, completing the weeklong interview and meeting Walter, my
> partner for the next four years. He would ride four feet behind me,
> working
> all the cameras, radios, and electronic jamming equipment. I joked that if
> we were ever captured, he was the spy and I was just the driver. He told
> me
> to keep the pointy end forward. We trained for a year, flying out of Beale
> AFB in California, Kadena Airbase in Okinawa, and RAF Mindenhall in
> England.
> On a typical training mission, we would take off near Sacramento, refuel
> over Nevada, accelerate into Montana, obtain high Mach over Colorado, turn
> right over New Mexico, speed across the Los Angeles Basin, run up the West
> Coast, turn right at Seattle , then return to Beale. Total flight time:
> two hours and 40 minutes. One day, high above Arizona, we were monitoring
> the radio traffic of all the mortal airplanes below us. First, a Cessna
> pilot asked the air traffic controllers to check his ground speed. 'Ninety
> knots,' ATC replied. A twin Bonanza soon made the same request.
> 'One-twenty
> on the ground,'
> was the reply. To our surprise, a navy F-18 came over the radio with a
> ground speed check. I knew exactly what he was doing. Of course, he had a
> ground speed indicator in his cockpit, but he wanted to let all the
> bug-smashers in the valley know what real speed was. 'Dusty 52, we show
> you
> at 620 on the ground,'
> ATC responded. The situation was too ripe. I heard the click of Walter's
> mike button in the rear seat. In his most innocent voice, Walter startled
> the controller by asking for a ground speed check from 81,000 feet,
> clearly
> above controlled airspace. In a cool, professional voice, the controller
> replied, 'Aspen 20, I show you at 1,982 knots on the ground.' We did not
> hear another transmission on that frequency all the way to the coast. The
> Blackbird always showed us something new, each aircraft possessing its own
> unique personality. In time, we realized we were flying a national
> treasure.
> When we taxied out of our revetments for takeoff, people took notice.
> Traffic congregated near the airfield fences, because everyone wanted to
> see
> and hear the mighty SR-71. You could not be a part of this program and not
> come to love the airplane. Slowly, she revealed her secrets to us as we
> earned her trust. One moonless night, while flying a routine training
> mission over the Pacific, I wondered what the sky would look like from
> 84,000 feet if the cockpit lighting were dark. While heading home on a
> straight course, I slowly turned down all of the lighting, reducing the
> glare and revealing the night sky. Within seconds, I turned the lights
> back
> up, fearful that the jet would know and somehow punish me. But my desire
> to
> see the sky overruled my caution, and I dimmed the lighting again. To my
> amazement, I saw a bright light outside my window. As my eyes adjusted to
> the view, I realized that the brilliance was the broad expanse of the
> Milky
> Way, now a gleaming stripe across the sky. Where dark spaces in the sky
> had
> usually existed, there were now dense clusters of sparkling stars.
> Shooting
> stars flashed across the canvas every few seconds. It was like a fireworks
> display with no sound. I knew I had to get my eyes back on the
> instruments,
> and reluctantly I brought my attention back inside. To my surprise, with
> the
> cockpit lighting still off, I could see every gauge, lit by starlight. In
> the plane's mirrors, I could see the eerie shine of my gold spacesuit
> incandescently illuminated in a celestial glow. I stole one last glance
> out
> the window. Despite our speed, we seemed still before the heavens, humbled
> in the radiance of a much greater power. For those few moments, I felt a
> part of something far more significant than anything we were doing in the
> plane. The sharp sound of Walt's voice on the radio brought me back to the
> tasks at hand as I prepared for our descent. The SR-71 was an expensive
> aircraft to operate. The most significant cost was tanker support, and in
> 1990, confronted with budget cutbacks, the Air Force retired the SR-71.
> The
> Blackbird had outrun nearly 4,000 missiles, not once taking a scratch from
> enemy fire. On her final flight, the Blackbird, destined for the
> Smithsonian
> National Air and Space Museum, sped from Los Angeles to Washington in 64
> minutes, averaging 2,145 mph and setting four speed records. The SR-71
> served six presidents, protecting America for a quarter of a century.
> Unbeknownst to most of the country, the plane flew over North Vietnam, Red
> China, North Korea, t he Middle East, South Africa, Cuba, Nicaragua, Iran,
> Libya, and the Falkland Islands. On a weekly basis, the SR-71 kept watch
> over every Soviet nuclear submarine and mobile missile site, and all of
> their troop movements. It was a key factor in winning the Cold War. I am
> proud to say I flew about 500 hours in this aircraft. I knew her well.She
> gave way to no plane, proudly dragging her sonic boom through enemy
> backyards with great impunity. She defeated every missile, outran every
> MiG,
> and always brought us home. In the first 100 years of manned flight, no
> aircraft was more remarkable. With the Libyan coast fast approaching now,
> Walt asks me for the third time if I think the jet will get to the speed
> and
> altitude we want in time. I tell him yes. I know he is concerned. He is
> dealing with the data; that's what engineers do, and I am glad he is. But
> I
> have my hands on the stick and throttles and can feel the heart of a
> thoroughbred, running now with the power and perfection she was designed
> to
> possess. I also talk to her. Like the combat veteran she is, the jet
> senses
> the target area and seems to prepare herself. For the first time in two
> days, the inlet door closes flush and all vibration is gone. We've become
> so
> used to the constant buzzing that the jet sounds quiet now in comparison.
> The Mach correspondingly increases slightly and the jet is flying in that
> confidently smooth and steady style we have so often seen at these speeds.
> We reach our target altitude and speed, with five miles to spare. Entering
> the target area, in response to the jet's new-found vitality, Walt says,
> 'That's amazing' and with my left hand pushing two throttles farther
> forward, I think to myself that there is much they don't teach in
> engineering school. Out my left window, Libya looks like one huge sandbox.
> A
> featureless brown terrain stretches all the way to the horizon. There is
> no
> sign of any activity. Then Walt tells me that he is getting lots of
> electronic signals, and they are not the friendly kind. The jet is
> performing perfectly now, flying better than she has in weeks.
> She seems to know where she is. She likes the high Mach, as we penetrate
> deeper into Libyan airspace. Leaving the footprint of our sonic boom
> across
> Benghazi, I sit motionless, with stilled hands on throttles and the pitch
> control, my eyes glued to the gauges. Only the Mach indicator is moving,
> steadily increasing in hundredths, in a rhythmic consistency similar to
> the
> long distance runner who has caught his second wind and picked up the
> pace.
> The jet was made for this kind of performance and she wasn't about to let
> an
> errant inlet door make her miss the show. With the power of forty
> locomotives, we puncture the quiet African sky and continue farther south
> across a bleak landscape. Walt continues to update me with numerous
> reactions he sees on th e DEF panel. He is receiving missile tracking
> signals. With each mile we traverse, every two seconds, I become more
> uncomfortable driving deeper into this barren and hostile land. I am glad
> the DEF panel is not in the front seat. It would be a big distraction now,
> seeing the lights flashing. In contrast, my cockpit is 'quiet' as the jet
> purrs and relishes her new-found strength, continuing to slowly
> accelerate.
> The spikes are full aft now, tucked twenty-six inches deep into the
> nacelles. With all inlet doors tightly shut, at 3.24 Mach, the J-58s are
> more like ramjets now, gulping 100,000 cubic feet of air per second. We
> are
> a roaring express now, and as we roll through the enemy's backyard, I hope
> our speed continues to defeat the missile radars below. We are approaching
> a
> turn, and this is good. It will only make it more difficult for any
> launched
> missile to solve the solution for hitting our aircraft. I push the speed
> up
> at Walt's re quest. The jet does not skip a beat, nothing fluctuates, and
> the cameras have a rock steady platform.
> Walt received missile launch signals. Before he can say anything else, my
> left hand instinctively moves the throttles yet farther forward. My eyes
> are
> glued to temperature gauges now, as I know the jet will willingly go to
> speeds that can harm her. The temps are relatively cool and from all the
> warm temps we've encountered thus far, this surprises me but then, it
> really
> doesn't surprise me.
> Mach 3.31 and Walt are quiet for the moment. I move my gloved finder
> across
> the small silver wheel on the autopilot panel which controls the
> aircraft's
> pitch.
> With the deft feel known to Swiss watchmakers, surgeons, and 'dinosaurs'
> (old-time pilots who not only fly an airplane but 'feel it') I rotate the
> pitch wheel somewhere between one-sixteenth and one-eighth inch, location
> a
> position which yields the 500-foot-per-minute climb I desire. The jet
> raises
> her nose one-sixth of a degree and knows I'll push her higher as she goes
> faster. The Mach continues to rise, but during this segment of our route,
> I
> am in no mood to pull throttles back. Walt's voice pierces the quiet of my
> cockpit with the news of more missile launch signals. The gravity of
> Walter's voice tells me that he believes the signals to be a more valid
> threat than the others. Within seconds he tells me to 'push it up' and I
> firmly press both throttles against their stops. For the next few second I
> will let the jet go as fast as she wants. A final turn is coming up and we
> both know that if we can hit that turn at this speed, we most likely will
> defeat any missiles. We are not there yet, though, and I'm wondering if
> Walt
> will call for a defensive turn off our course. With no words spoken, I
> sense
> Walter is thinking in concert with me about maintaining our programmed
> course. To keep from worrying, I glance outside, wondering if I'll be able
> to visually pick up a missile aimed at us. Odd are the thoughts that
> wander
> through one's mind in times like these. I found myself recalling the words
> of former SR-71 pilots who were fired upon while flying missions over
> North
> Vietnam. They said the few errant missile detonations they were able to
> observe from the cockpit looked like implosions rather than explosions.
> This
> was due to the great speed at which the jet was hurling away from the
> exploding missile. I see nothing outside except the endless expanse of a
> steel blue sky and the broad patch of tan earth far below. I have only had
> my eyes out of the cockpit for seconds, but it seems like many minutes
> since
> I have last checked the gauges inside. Returning my attention inward, I
> glance first at the miles counter telling me how many more to go until we
> can start our turn. Then I note the Mach, and passing beyond 3.45, I
> realize
> that Walter and I have attained new personal records. The Mach continues
> to
> increase. The ride is incredibly smooth.
> There seems to be a confirmed trust now, between me and the jet; she will
> not hesitate to deliver whatever speed we need, and I can count on no
> problems with the inlets. Walt and I are ultimately depending on the jet
> now
> - more so than normal - and she seems to know it. The cooler outside
> temperatures have awakened the spirit born into her years ago, when men
> dedicated to excellence took the time and care to build her well. With
> spikes and doors as tight as they can get we are racing against the time
> it
> could take a missile to reach our altitude. It is a race this jet will not
> let us lose. The Mach eases to 3.5 as we crest
> 80,000 feet. We are a bullet now - except faster. We hit the turn, and I
> feel some relief as our nose swings away from a country we have seen quite
> enough of.
> Screaming past Tripoli, our phenomenal speed continues to rise, and the
> screaming Sled pummels the enemy one more time, laying down a parting
> sonic
> boom. In seconds, we can see nothing but the expansive blue of the
> Mediterranean .I realize that I still have my left hand full-forward and
> we're continuing to rocket along in maximum afterburner. The TDI now shows
> us Mach numbers not only new to our experience but flat out scary. Walt
> says
> the DEF panel is now quiet and I know it is time to reduce our incredible
> speed. I pull the throttles to the min 'burner range and the jet still
> doesn't want to slow down. Normally, the Mach would be affected
> immediately
> when making such a large throttle movement.
> But for just a few moments, old 960 just sat out there at the high Mach
> she
> seemed to love and, like the proud Sled she was, only began to slow when
> we
> were well out of danger. I loved that jet. Brian Shul *
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Rare Propeller on CL |
| From: | "tkreiner" <tkreiner(at)gmail.com> |
Not sure how 'rare' this is but there's a 72A48 prop on CL in Arkansas that someone
on the list might be interested in...
Here's the link:
http://fayar.craigslist.org/atq/2772176990.html
--------
Tom Kreiner
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=364954#364954
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Greenlee" <jmgreenlee(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | brass tipped prop |
Hello,
I carved a few props for the Model A several years ago. What I have never
found is instructions on how to apply a brass leading edge. Has anyone here
done this? Do you have any instructions?
Thanks!
JMG
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ben Charvet <bencharvet(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Stewart Systems Question? |
I also used the 1.7 oz fabric and did the full shrink. If you want to
see an example of a "light structure" look at a Graham Lee Nieuport,
which has the tail surfaces and trailing edges made of 1/2 inch .032
aluminum tubes. I have an unfinished project in my hangar, that when I
finally get around to will probably not get the full shrink. As
aircraft structures go the Piet is pretty stout.
Ben Charvet
Titusville, Fl
On 1/25/2012 12:45 PM, Chris Rusch wrote:
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Chris Rusch"
>
> I just bought all of the SS supplies to start covering, and watching the video
they say you might want to NOT shrink the material to the full 350 degrees if
the structure is light. Did anyone have any problem going to the full shrink
on a Piet structure? Also, i went with the light 1.7 ceconite uncertified.
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Chris
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=364820#364820
>
>
--
Ben Charvet, PharmD
Staff Pharmacist
Parrish Medical center
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JOSEPH SWITHIN <joeswithin(at)yahoo.com> |
When you builders made your jigs for doing the ribs, did anyone drill holes
at the glue spots so any excess would fall away? How many wet the two surf
aces prior to applying glue? Last but not least, did anyone use the west sy
stem?-=0A=0AJoe Swithin=0AMorris, IL
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: FOR SALE (PROJECT) |
| From: | "bcolleran" <bcolleran(at)comcast.net> |
Ladies and Gent's my project is SOLD! The new proud owners came and got her today.
I still have a set of plans if anyone is interested. Please let me know
and I can have them fedex out to you as soon as possible.
Bill
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=365031#365031
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris" <catdesigns(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | brass tipped prop |
John
You need to download this book
The Airplane Propeller
By United States. Army. Air Corps, United States. Adjutant-General's Office
http://books.google.com/books?id=JndBAAAAIAAJ
<http://books.google.com/books?id=JndBAAAAIAAJ&dq=aircraft%20propeller%20man
ufacturing%20coppering&pg=PA7#v=onepage&q=aircraft%20propeller%20manufacturi
ng%20coppering&f=false>
&dq=aircraft%20propeller%20manufacturing%20coppering&pg=PA7#v=onepage&q=airc
raft%20propeller%20manufacturing%20coppering&f=false
The information your looking for starts on page 107 of the PDF.
Chris
Sacramento, Ca
Westcoastpiet.com
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John
Greenlee
Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2012 8:08 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: brass tipped prop
Hello,
I carved a few props for the Model A several years ago. What I have never
found is instructions on how to apply a brass leading edge. Has anyone here
done this? Do you have any instructions?
Thanks!
JMG
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ben Charvet <bencharvet(at)gmail.com> |
I just took some plastic shopping bags and cut them into 2 inch squares
and put a piece under each glue joint. The plastic would pull right off
of T-88 and made it real easy to get the rib out of the jig. A few
years ago at the Sun-N-Fun workshop someone made a rib in the jig
without any protection under the glue joints, and I'm wondering if they
ever got that rib out.
Ben
On 1/28/2012 11:55 AM, JOSEPH SWITHIN wrote:
> When you builders made your jigs for doing the ribs, did anyone drill
> holes at the glue spots so any excess would fall away? How many wet
> the two surfaces prior to applying glue? Last but not least, did
> anyone use the west system?
>
> Joe Swithin
> Morris, IL
>
> *
>
>
> *
--
Ben Charvet, PharmD
Staff Pharmacist
Parrish Medical center
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Cardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net> |
My rib jig was built using a 2 X 8 piece of lumber. Material was removed
from the 2 X 8 at the glue joints.
I used Aerolite adhesive applying resin on one surface and activator on
the mating surface. If using T-88 or West it is good practice to apply
adhesive to both mating surfaces.
Greg Cardinal
Minneapolis
----- Original Message -----
From: JOSEPH SWITHIN
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2012 10:55 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: rib jig
When you builders made your jigs for doing the ribs, did anyone drill
holes at the glue spots so any excess would fall away? How many wet the
two surfaces prior to applying glue? Last but not least, did anyone use
the west system?
Joe Swithin
Morris, IL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com> |
I stole the ole lady's wax paper out of the kitchen for my rib jig, it work
s ok.- It is a pain in the butt to put those little pieces of wax paperin
the jig for every rib joint.- I thought posibly using a rib length piece
of thin clear plastic over your full size print, and use the white nylon/t
eflon (hard plastic) stock to cut your jig blocks out of would be the ultim
ate.- It would cost a little more than using scrap wood for the blocks, b
ut would be easier, I think the dried glue would simply chip, peel off the
plastic surfaces when dry.- Wow! why did I not think of this years ago, g
uess life is even tougher when your dumb.
-
Shad
--- On Sat, 1/28/12, Ben Charvet wrote:
From: Ben Charvet <bencharvet(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: rib jig
Date: Saturday, January 28, 2012, 12:13 PM
I just took some plastic shopping bags and cut them into 2 inch squares and
put a piece under each glue joint.- The plastic would pull right off of
T-88 and made it real easy to get the rib out of the jig.- A few years ag
o at the Sun-N-Fun workshop someone made a rib in the jig without any prote
ction under the glue joints, and I'm wondering if they ever got that rib ou
t.
Ben
On 1/28/2012 11:55 AM, JOSEPH SWITHIN wrote:
When you builders made your jigs for doing the ribs, did anyone drill holes
at the glue spots so any excess would fall away? How many wet the two surf
aces prior to applying glue? Last but not least, did anyone use the west sy
stem?-
Joe Swithin
Morris, IL
--
Ben Charvet, PharmD
Staff Pharmacist
Parrish Medical center
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca> |
Joe, the disadvantage that I can see with a jig having holes at the joints is that
while excess epoxy will be able to fall away, not ALL of the excess will drip
off. You will likely end up with a small blob of hardened epoxy that you will
need to remove before attaching the gussets. By using a method like Ben described,
any excess epoxy remains flat, making the attachment of gusset plates
much easier. On the other hand, you really don't need that much epoxy. If you're
a tidy builder, there really shouldn't be much excess glue.
For epoxy, I used T-88, which is very simple to mix; 1:1 by volume - no ratios
to calculate, no need for weigh scales. Some people have expressed a preference
for the West System, but I don't know what the preference is based on. I like
simple, and a one to one mixing ratio is as simple as it can get (for a two-part
epoxy).
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=365043#365043
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Bickers <bickers.ken(at)gmail.com> |
I used wax paper, too, until I discovered Saran Wrap (actually I already
knew about, just hadn't thought of its use in a jig). Just lay a long
length of Saran Wrap over the jig. The pieces of wood will push it down
into the jig as you assemble the rib or tail pieces. Easy and fast.
On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 10:49 AM, shad bell wrote:
> I stole the ole lady's wax paper out of the kitchen for my rib jig, it
> works ok. It is a pain in the butt to put those little pieces of wax
> paperin the jig for every rib joint. I thought posibly using a rib length
> piece of thin clear plastic over your full size print, and use the white
> nylon/teflon (hard plastic) stock to cut your jig blocks out of would be
> the ultimate. It would cost a little more than using scrap wood for the
> blocks, but would be easier, I think the dried glue would simply chip, peel
> off the plastic surfaces when dry. Wow! why did I not think of this years
> ago, guess life is even tougher when your dumb.
>
> Shad
>
> --- On *Sat, 1/28/12, Ben Charvet * wrote:
>
>
> From: Ben Charvet <bencharvet(at)gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: rib jig
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Saturday, January 28, 2012, 12:13 PM
>
> I just took some plastic shopping bags and cut them into 2 inch squares
> and put a piece under each glue joint. The plastic would pull right off of
> T-88 and made it real easy to get the rib out of the jig. A few years ago
> at the Sun-N-Fun workshop someone made a rib in the jig without any
> protection under the glue joints, and I'm wondering if they ever got that
> rib out.
>
> Ben
> On 1/28/2012 11:55 AM, JOSEPH SWITHIN wrote:
>
> When you builders made your jigs for doing the ribs, did anyone drill
> holes at the glue spots so any excess would fall away? How many wet the two
> surfaces prior to applying glue? Last but not least, did anyone use the
> west system?
>
> Joe Swithin
> Morris, IL
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
> --
> Ben Charvet, PharmD
> Staff Pharmacist
> Parrish Medical center
>
> *
>
> " rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> et=_blank>http://forums.matronics.com
> llow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> *
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: brass tipped prop |
| From: | helspersew(at)aol.com |
Hi John,
I have posed this very question to the list previously, with few results. S
ome of the guys forwarded some helpful information, but it never really get
s down to the difficult part, which is forming the brass to the exact shape
of the prop in order to match it perfectly. Obviously this has been done c
ountless times in the past, but I haven't been able to come up the secret.
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN
-----Original Message-----
From: John Greenlee <jmgreenlee(at)sbcglobal.net>
Sent: Sat, Jan 28, 2012 10:11 am
Subject: Pietenpol-List: brass tipped prop
Hello,
I carved a few props for the Model A several years ago. What I have never
found is instructions on how to apply a brass leading edge. Has anyone her
e done this? Do you have any instructions?
Thanks!
JMG
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | brass tipped prop |
4 mil visqueen right over the rib drawing. After 3 years, and 100's of ribs
(seemed like it), it's still good. But, the BEST NEWS is.sounds like you're
building an airplane!!
Gary Boothe
NX308MB
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris
Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2012 9:10 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: brass tipped prop
John
You need to download this book
The Airplane Propeller
By United States. Army. Air Corps, United States. Adjutant-General's Office
http://books.google.com/books?id=JndBAAAAIAAJ
<http://books.google.com/books?id=JndBAAAAIAAJ&dq=aircraft%20propeller%20man
ufacturing%20coppering&pg=PA7#v=onepage&q=aircraft%20propeller%20manufacturi
ng%20coppering&f=false>
&dq=aircraft%20propeller%20manufacturing%20coppering&pg=PA7#v=onepage&q=airc
raft%20propeller%20manufacturing%20coppering&f=false
The information your looking for starts on page 107 of the PDF.
Chris
Sacramento, Ca
Westcoastpiet.com
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John
Greenlee
Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2012 8:08 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: brass tipped prop
Hello,
I carved a few props for the Model A several years ago. What I have never
found is instructions on how to apply a brass leading edge. Has anyone here
done this? Do you have any instructions?
Thanks!
JMG
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack(at)textors.com" <jack(at)textors.com> |
Joe see here http://www.textors.com/RibJig.jpg I use west system for areas w
here I need a large batch of glue, not for the ribs
jack
Desmond
Sent from my iPad
On Jan 28, 2012, at 10:55 AM, JOSEPH SWITHIN wrote:
> When you builders made your jigs for doing the ribs, did anyone drill hole
s at the glue spots so any excess would fall away? How many wet the two surf
aces prior to applying glue? Last but not least, did anyone use the west sys
tem?
>
> Joe Swithin
> Morris, IL
>
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
Oops, sorry, that was meant for Joe Swithin.obviously.
Gary Boothe
NX308MB
From: Gary Boothe [mailto:gboothe5(at)comcast.net]
Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2012 11:03 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: brass tipped prop
4 mil visqueen right over the rib drawing. After 3 years, and 100's of ribs
(seemed like it), it's still good. But, the BEST NEWS is.sounds like you're
building an airplane!!
Gary Boothe
NX308MB
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris
Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2012 9:10 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: brass tipped prop
John
You need to download this book
The Airplane Propeller
By United States. Army. Air Corps, United States. Adjutant-General's Office
http://books.google.com/books?id=JndBAAAAIAAJ
<http://books.google.com/books?id=JndBAAAAIAAJ&dq=aircraft%20propeller%20man
ufacturing%20coppering&pg=PA7#v=onepage&q=aircraft%20propeller%20manufacturi
ng%20coppering&f=false>
&dq=aircraft%20propeller%20manufacturing%20coppering&pg=PA7#v=onepage&q=airc
raft%20propeller%20manufacturing%20coppering&f=false
The information your looking for starts on page 107 of the PDF.
Chris
Sacramento, Ca
Westcoastpiet.com
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John
Greenlee
Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2012 8:08 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: brass tipped prop
Hello,
I carved a few props for the Model A several years ago. What I have never
found is instructions on how to apply a brass leading edge. Has anyone here
done this? Do you have any instructions?
Thanks!
JMG
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | airlion <airlion(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: brass tipped prop |
hi Dan, I hate to keeping harping on this.I plan to order the laarger strut
s that take a 1 in sq bar.. Then drill it to accept my 7 16 in strut forks,
My forks came off my old piper struts that were steel. The forks don't rus
t but are magnetic in that they are not stainless steel. I was told to put
a ss shim inthe hole before threading the bar. If they don't rust then woul
d it be OK to just tap into the aluminum bar. Gardiner
--- On Sat, 1/28/12, helspersew(at)aol.com wrote:
From: helspersew(at)aol.com <helspersew(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: brass tipped prop
Date: Saturday, January 28, 2012, 1:47 PM
=0AHi John,=0A=0A=0A-=0A=0A=0AI have posed this very question to the list
previously, with few results. Some of the guys forwarded some helpful info
rmation, but it never really gets down to the difficult part, which is form
ing the brass to the exact shape of the prop in order to match it perfectly
. Obviously this has been done countless times in the past, but I haven't b
een able to come up the secret.=0A=0A=0A-=0A=0A=0ADan Helsper=0A=0A=0APur
year, TN
=0A
=0A
=0A=0A=0A=0A-----Original Message-----
=0AFrom: John Greenlee <jmgreenlee(at)sbcglobal.net>
=0ATo: pietenpol-list
=0ASent: Sat, Jan 28, 2012 10:11 am
=0ASubject: Pietenpol-List: brass tipped prop
=0A
=0A=0A=0A=0A#yiv1729584120 #yiv1729584120AOLMsgPart_1_cc44bffd-758b-44f6-b5
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d-758b-44f6-b522-ea8a9cfae6e5 div.yiv1729584120Section1 {}=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AH
ello,=0A=0A=0A-=0A=0A=0AI carved a few props for the Model A several year
s ago.- What I have never found is instructions on how to apply a brass l
eading edge.- Has anyone here done this?- Do you have any instructions?
=0A=0A=0A-=0A=0A=0AThanks!=0A=0A=0A
=0AJMG=0A=0A
" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
p://forums.matronics.com
blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "bcolleran" <bcolleran(at)comcast.net> |
Ladies and Gents.
I have sold my piet and now have a full set of plans less a full size rib for sale.
It is everything that you would get for the pietenpol family.
They are lightly used. If you are interested I am asking 150.00 and I can fedex
them out tonight.
I use paypal and can complete the transaction anytime.
Bill
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=365061#365061
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: brass tipped prop |
| From: | helspersew(at)aol.com |
Gardiner,
I am thoroughly confused. I flat out don't understand your question. Could
you please re-state. Thanks.
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN
-----Original Message-----
From: airlion <airlion(at)bellsouth.net>
Sent: Sat, Jan 28, 2012 1:21 pm
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: brass tipped prop
hi Dan, I hate to keeping harping on this.I plan to order the laarger strut
s that take a 1 in sq bar.. Then drill it to accept my 7 16 in strut forks,
My forks came off my old piper struts that were steel. The forks don't rus
t but are magnetic in that they are not stainless steel. I was told to put
a ss shim inthe hole before threading the bar. If they don't rust then woul
d it be OK to just tap into the aluminum bar. Gardiner
--- On Sat, 1/28/12, helspersew(at)aol.com wrote:
From: helspersew(at)aol.com <helspersew(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: brass tipped prop
Date: Saturday, January 28, 2012, 1:47 PM
Hi John,
I have posed this very question to the list previously, with few results. S
ome of the guys forwarded some helpful information, but it never really get
s down to the difficult part, which is forming the brass to the exact shape
of the prop in order to match it perfectly. Obviously this has been done c
ountless times in the past, but I haven't been able to come up the secret.
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN
-----Original Message-----
From: John Greenlee <jmgreenlee(at)sbcglobal.net>
Sent: Sat, Jan 28, 2012 10:11 am
Subject: Pietenpol-List: brass tipped prop
Hello,
I carved a few props for the Model A several years ago. What I have never
found is instructions on how to apply a brass leading edge. Has anyone her
e done this? Do you have any instructions?
Thanks!
JMG
" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
p://forums.matronics.com
blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
http://www.matronics="nofollow"; target="_blank" href="http://forums.
matronics.com">http:/==================
=====
-= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum -
-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
-= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
-= Photoshare, and much much more:
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-
-========================
-= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
-= Same great content also available via the Web Forums!
-
-= --> http://forums.matronics.com
-
-========================
-= - List Contribution Web Site -
-= Thank you for your generous support!
-= -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
-========================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | airlion <airlion(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: brass tipped prop |
Sorry about that Dan,I tend to ramble around. I want to order the large str
uts from Carlson. I have forked ends from my old Piper struts and I wondere
d how you did yours. Are your struts adjustable? I am worried about corrosi
on between the steel fork and the aluminum strut. Gardiner
--- On Sat, 1/28/12, helspersew(at)aol.com wrote:
From: helspersew(at)aol.com <helspersew(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: brass tipped prop
Date: Saturday, January 28, 2012, 6:28 PM
=0AGardiner,=0A=0A=0A-=0A=0A=0AI am thoroughly confused. I flat out don't
understand your question. Could you please re-state. Thanks.=0A=0A=0A-
=0A=0A=0ADan Helsper=0A=0A=0APuryear, TN
=0A
=0A
=0A=0A=0A=0A-----Original Message-----
=0AFrom: airlion <airlion(at)bellsouth.net>
=0ATo: pietenpol-list
=0ASent: Sat, Jan 28, 2012 1:21 pm
=0ASubject: Re: Pietenpol-List: brass tipped prop
=0A
=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0Ahi Dan, I hate to keeping harping on this.I plan to or
der the laarger struts that take a 1 in sq bar.. Then drill it to accept my
7 16 in strut forks, My forks came off my old piper struts that were steel
. The forks don't rust but are magnetic in that they are not stainless stee
l. I was told to put a ss shim inthe hole before threading the bar. If they
don't rust then would it be OK to just tap into the aluminum bar. Gardiner
=0A
=0A--- On Sat, 1/28/12, helspersew(at)aol.com wrote:
=0A=0A
=0AFrom: helspersew(at)aol.com <helspersew(at)aol.com>
=0ASubject: Re: Pietenpol-List: brass tipped prop
=0ATo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
=0ADate: Saturday, January 28, 2012, 1:47 PM
=0A
=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AHi John,=0A=0A=0A-=0A=0A=0AI have posed this very question
to the list previously, with few results. Some of the guys forwarded some
helpful information, but it never really gets down to the difficult part, w
hich is forming the brass to the exact shape of the prop in order to match
it perfectly. Obviously this has been done countless times in the past, but
I haven't been able to come up the secret.=0A=0A=0A-=0A=0A=0ADan Helsper
=0A=0A=0APuryear, TN
=0A
=0A
=0A=0A=0A=0A-----Original Message-----
=0AFrom: John Greenlee <jmgreenlee(at)sbcglobal.net>
=0ATo: pietenpol-list
=0ASent: Sat, Jan 28, 2012 10:11 am
=0ASubject: Pietenpol-List: brass tipped prop
=0A
=0A=0A=0A=0A#yiv1150430075 #yiv1150430075AOLMsgPart_1_b24889ec-e2ff-41af-9c
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=0A=0A=0AHello,=0A=0A=0A-=0A=0A=0AI carved a few props for the Model A se
veral years ago.- What I have never found is instructions on how to apply
a brass leading edge.- Has anyone here done this?- Do you have any ins
tructions?=0A=0A=0A-=0A=0A=0AThanks!=0A=0A=0A
=0AJMG=0A=0A
" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
p://forums.matronics.com
blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
=0A=0Ahttp://www.matronics="nofollow"; target="_blank" href="http://f
orums.matronics.com">http:/================
=======
=0A
" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
p://forums.matronics.com
blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Steam box for bending plywood |
Hear's a few pics of the steamer.
Shad
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Question about lower fork ends- aluminum struts |
| From: | helspersew(at)aol.com |
Gardiner,
Here are a couple photos showing the jam nut on the fork threads, providing
for the adjustment and locking ability. I am not an engineer, I can't imag
ine a corrosion problem between the fork threads and the 7075 aluminum inse
rt. Maybe someone with more technical knowledge could chime in (Jack or Bil
l) and give us the official low-down. Hope this helps.
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Keith Hodge <keith.hodge(at)hodgehome.org.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Question about lower fork ends- aluminum struts |
Hello Dan,
I am building a Pietenpol over here in the UK.
Do you happen to have the part number for the fork end which is shown in
the second photograph (i.e. the one with the slot horizontal) and can
you confirm the thread size.
My project has been laid up for some time whilst I was building a house
and I seem to have lost my records of where i ordered them from.
Regards Keith Hodge
P.S. I have attached a rather poor photo of my efforts, which is to be
slightly unusual in having a BMW K100 motor cycle engine with Rotax 3 to
1 gearbox driving a lightweight prop.
P.P.S And finally, regarding the corrosion comments I found (sea photo
2) that my steel fuel filler neck was immovable when I came to remove it
due to corrosion (or did I use locktite? It was so long ago that I
cannot remember. The one thing I was certainly not happy about was the
fact that I paid top dollar from an approved supplier for the parts
which I thought would be properly plated, but they were sure not. I will
be stove enamelling the replacement before fitting it.
On 29/01/2012 12:32 PM, helspersew(at)aol.com wrote:
> Gardiner,
> Here are a couple photos showing the jam nut on the fork threads,
> providing for the adjustment and locking ability. I am not an
> engineer, I can't imagine a corrosion problem between the fork threads
> and the 7075 aluminum insert. Maybe someone with more technical
> knowledge could chime in (Jack or Bill) and give us the official
> low-down. Hope this helps.
> Dan Helsper
> Puryear, TN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Galvanic Corrosion |
All right, Dan. Now you've done it and inspired my Geekiness to come to the
surface. Let's talk a bit about Galvanic Corrosion. This occurs when you
have dissimilar metals in intimate contact in an environment where they can
get wet, such as at the ends of lift struts. Not all dissimilar metals
cause problems - it depends on how "Anodic" they are. There is a chart
listing the Anodic Index of all common metals. To find the susceptibility
to corrosion of any metal pair, find the difference in their anodic indices
- the corrosion will take place at the more anodic of the pair (this is why
on outboard motors that may be run in saltwater you will find "sacrificial
anodes" of magnesium or zinc on the aluminum casings of the motor, so the
corrosion takes place there rather than on the aluminum.
The rule of thumb to be safe from galvanic corrosion is to have a difference
in anodic index of no more than about 0.15 - 0.20 for an outdoor
environment. Here is the chart:
Metal Category Anodic Index
(volts)
Gold, solid and plated 0.00
Rhodium plated on Silver-plated Copper 0.05
Silver, high Nickel-Copper alloys 0.15
Nickel, Titanium, Monel 0.30
Copper, Silver Solder, high Copper-Nickel 0.35
alloys, Nickel-Chromium alloys
Brasses & Bronzes 0.40
18% Chromium Stainless Steel 0.50
Chromium plating, Tin plating 0.60
Tin-Lead solder 0.65
Lead 0.70
Aluminum, wrought, 2000 series 0.75
Iron, plain carbon or low-alloy steel 0.85
Aluminum, wrought alloys other than 2000 0.90
series (such as 7075)
Cast Aluminum alloys, Cadmium plating 0.95
and Chromates
Hot-dip Zinc, galvanized steel 1.20
Zinc 1.25
Magnesium 1.75
Beryllium 1.85
One of the important things to notice is that cad-plated steel (such as AN
aircraft hardware) is not too bad when placed against 2024 series aluminum,
and is even better against 7075 series. What is surprising to most people
is how bad stainless steel is against aluminum (difference of .40 to .50).
Hope this helps. By the way, I changed the subject to hopefully make this
chart easier to locate in the archives
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
helspersew(at)aol.com
Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2012 7:32 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Question about lower fork ends- aluminum struts
Gardiner,
Here are a couple photos showing the jam nut on the fork threads, providing
for the adjustment and locking ability. I am not an engineer, I can't
imagine a corrosion problem between the fork threads and the 7075 aluminum
insert. Maybe someone with more technical knowledge could chime in (Jack or
Bill) and give us the official low-down. Hope this helps.
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | airlion <airlion(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Galvanic Corrosion |
Thanks Jack, your explanation of galvanic corrosion makes more sense than a
ny that I have heard. Gardiner
--- On Sun, 1/29/12, Jack Phillips wrote:
From: Jack Phillips <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Galvanic Corrosion
Date: Sunday, January 29, 2012, 8:50 AM
=0A=0A=0A =0A =0A=0A =0A=0A =0A=0A =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AAll right,
Dan.=C2- Now you=99ve=0Adone it and inspired my Geekiness to come
to the surface.=C2- Let=99s=0Atalk a bit about Galvanic Corrosion.
=C2- This occurs when you have dissimilar=0Ametals in intimate contact in
an environment where they can get wet, such as at=0Athe ends of lift strut
s.=C2- Not all dissimilar metals cause problems =93=0Ait depends on
how =9CAnodic=9D they are.=C2- There is a chart listing=0Ath
e Anodic Index of all common metals.=C2- To find the susceptibility to=0A
corrosion of any metal pair, find the difference in their anodic indices
=93=0Athe corrosion will take place at the more anodic of the pair (t
his is why on=0Aoutboard motors that may be run in saltwater you will find
=9Csacrificial=0Aanodes=9D of magnesium or zinc on the aluminum
casings of the motor, so the=0Acorrosion takes place there rather than on
the aluminum. =0A=0A =C2- =0A=0AThe rule of thumb to be safe from galvani
c=0Acorrosion is to have a difference in anodic index of no more than about
0.15 - 0.20=0Afor an outdoor environment.=C2- Here is the chart: =0A=0A
=C2- =0A=0AMetal Category=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-
=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2
-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-
=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2
-=C2-=C2-=C2- Anodic=0AIndex (volts) =0A=0A =C2- =0A=0AGold, soli
d and plated=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2
-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-
=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2
-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- 0.00 =0A=0ARhodium plated on Silver-plated Copp
er=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-
=C2-=C2- 0.05 =0A=0ASilver, high Nickel-Copper alloys=C2-=C2-=C2-
=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- =C2-=C2-
=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- 0.15 =0A=0ANickel, T
itanium, Monel=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-
=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2
-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-
=C2-=C2- 0.30 =0A=0ACopper, Silver Solder, high Copper-Nickel=C2-=C2
-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- 0.35 =0A=0A
alloys, Nickel-Chromium alloys =0A=0ABrasses & Bronzes=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2
-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-
=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2
-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-
=C2-=C2- 0.40 =0A=0A18% Chromium Stainless Steel=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2
-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-
=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- 0.50 =0A=0AChr
omium plating, Tin plating=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-
=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2
-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- 0.60 =0A=0ATin-Lead sol
der=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-
=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2
-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-
=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- 0.
65 =0A=0ALead=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-
=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2
-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-
=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2
-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-
=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- 0.70 =0A=0AAluminum, wrought, 2000 series=C2-=C2
-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-
=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- 0.75 =0A
=0AIron, plain carbon or low-alloy steel=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2
-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-
=C2-=C2-=C2- 0.85 =0A=0AAluminum, wrought alloys other than 2000=C2
-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- 0.90 =0A=0Aseries
(such as 7075) =0A=0ACast Aluminum alloys, Cadmium plating=C2-=C2-=C2
-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- 0.95 =0A=0A
and Chromates =0A=0AHot-dip Zinc, galvanized steel=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-
=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2
-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-
1.20 =0A=0AZinc=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2
-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-
=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2
-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-
=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2
-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- 1.25 =0A=0AMagnesium=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2
-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-
=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2
-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-
=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2
- 1.75 =0A=0ABeryllium=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2
-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-
=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2
-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-
=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- 1.
85 =0A=0A =C2- =0A=0AOne of the important things to notice is=0Athat cad-
plated steel (such as AN aircraft hardware) is not too bad when placed=0Aag
ainst 2024 series aluminum, and is even better against 7075 series.=C2-
=0AWhat is surprising to most people is how bad stainless steel is against
=0Aaluminum (difference of .40 to .50). =0A=0A =C2- =0A=0AHope this helps
.=C2- By the way, I=0Achanged the subject to hopefully make this chart ea
sier to locate in the=0Aarchives =0A=0A =C2- =0A=0AJack Phillips =0A=0ANX
899JP =0A=0ASmith Mountain Lake, Virginia =0A=0A =C2- =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A
=0A=0A=0A=0AFrom:=0Aowner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com=0A[mailto:own
er-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of helspersew(at)aol.com
=0ASent: Sunday, January 29, 2012=0A7:32 AM
=0ATo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
=0ASubject: Pietenpol-List: Question=0Aabout lower fork ends- aluminum stru
ts =0A=0A=0A=0A =C2- =0A=0A=0A=0AGardiner, =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=C2- =0A
=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AHere are a couple photos showing the jam=0Anut on the fork t
hreads, providing for the adjustment and locking ability. I am=0Anot an eng
ineer, I can't imagine a corrosion problem between the fork threads=0Aand t
he 7075 aluminum insert. Maybe someone with more technical knowledge could
=0Achime in (Jack or Bill) and give us the official low-down. Hope this hel
ps. =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=C2- =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ADan Helsper =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A
=0APuryear,=0A TN=C2- =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Galvanic Corrosion |
| From: | "skellytown flyer" <skellflyer1(at)yahoo.com> |
On my aluminum struts I also used steel straps to mount the jury struts- but I
put a layer of very heavy poly tape that is used to wrap pipelines with underground.I
was concerned with the possibility of corrosion but also the tendency
of aluminum to wear fast of it is under vibration against another hard surface.Raymond
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=365111#365111
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Question about lower fork ends- aluminum struts |
| From: | helspersew(at)aol.com |
Keith,
Here is a link from ACS for the Piper J-3 forks I used.
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/strutadjfbsets1.php
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "rorichts" <stolflite(at)gmail.com> |
As for building ribs to what extent if any is sanding the joints and gussets a
part of the process? I have been told to hold to a minimum because of the sanded
material degrading the integrity of the joint.
thanks
rich
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=365167#365167
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Keith Hodge <keith.hodge(at)hodgehome.org.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Question about lower fork ends- aluminum struts |
Thanks Dan,
Now I can get my credit card out and get the job finished.
Keith
On 29/01/2012 7:00 PM, helspersew(at)aol.com wrote:
> Keith,
> Here is a link from ACS for the Piper J-3 forks I used.
> http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/strutadjfbsets1.php
> Dan Helsper
> Puryear, TN
> *
>
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Cardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net> |
Rich,
You have been told correctly. The sanded material fills the pores of the
wood and can prevent proper adhesive absorption.
If you do sand the parts make sure you vacuum the pieces before applying
adhesive.
Best practice is to lightly scrape the pieces just before glueing.
That being said, I did some very unscientific testing by glueing sanded
pieces together with T88. The glue joints did not fail.
Greg Cardinal
Minneapolis
----- Original Message -----
From: "rorichts" <stolflite(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2012 4:55 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: rib jig
>
> As for building ribs to what extent if any is sanding the joints and
> gussets a part of the process? I have been told to hold to a minimum
> because of the sanded material degrading the integrity of the joint.
> thanks
> rich
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=365167#365167
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "rorichts" <stolflite(at)gmail.com> |
Thanks for the help, wanting to error (maybe not a good choice of word) anyway
will redo wing and call the first part of the cost of education. It has been and
interesting experience.
thanks again
rich
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=365183#365183
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ben Charvet <bencharvet(at)gmail.com> |
I had a nice belt/disc sander that I used during the rib making
process. If you push to spruce/doug fir strips into the sanding disc
too much the end gets pretty smooth and looks like the sap has melted,
forming a slightly shiny end. I guess that should be avoided, but I
believe most of the strength of the joints is in the gussets. I was
also told that all plywood gussets need to be scuff sanded to improve
adhesion. Especially the birch aircraft plywood. Lots easier to block
sand the plywood sheet prior to cutting out the gussets. Having said
all that a T-88 joint is pretty strong if you do everything wrong.
If you ever have doubts, try some destructive testing, you'll sleep
better at night ;-) .
Ben Charvet
On 1/29/2012 5:55 PM, rorichts wrote:
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "rorichts"
>
> As for building ribs to what extent if any is sanding the joints and gussets
a part of the process? I have been told to hold to a minimum because of the sanded
material degrading the integrity of the joint.
> thanks
> rich
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=365167#365167
>
>
--
Ben Charvet, PharmD
Staff Pharmacist
Parrish Medical center
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Doug Dever <chiefpepperhead(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Question about lower fork ends- aluminum struts |
You shouldn't have any=2C especially if the fork is cadmium plated and if y
our really concerned=2C used some dielectric compound on the threads. But
=2C then=2C like you I am not an engineer.
Doug Dever
In beautiful Stow Ohio
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Question about lower fork ends- aluminum struts
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
Date: Sun=2C 29 Jan 2012 07:32:05 -0500
Gardiner=2C
Here are a couple photos showing the jam nut on the fork threads=2C providi
ng for the adjustment and locking ability. I am not an engineer=2C I can't
imagine a corrosion problem between the fork threads and the 7075 aluminum
insert. Maybe someone with more technical knowledge could chime in (Jack or
Bill) and give us the official low-down. Hope this helps.
Dan Helsper
Puryear=2C TN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Doug Dever <chiefpepperhead(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Galvanic Corrosion |
Now that's what we were looking for. However=2C I will say that we put all
stainless bolts on our float fittings (non structural) and had zero corros
ion after 10yrs. Go figure.
Doug Dever
In beautiful Stow Ohio
From: pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Galvanic Corrosion
Date: Sun=2C 29 Jan 2012 08:50:20 -0500
All right=2C Dan. Now you=92ve done it and inspired my Geekiness to come t
o the surface. Let=92s talk a bit about Galvanic Corrosion. This occurs w
hen you have dissimilar metals in intimate contact in an environment where
they can get wet=2C such as at the ends of lift struts. Not all dissimilar
metals cause problems ' it depends on how =93Anodic=94 they are. There
is a chart listing the Anodic Index of all common metals. To find the susc
eptibility to corrosion of any metal pair=2C find the difference in their a
nodic indices ' the corrosion will take place at the more anodic of the p
air (this is why on outboard motors that may be run in saltwater you will f
ind =93sacrificial anodes=94 of magnesium or zinc on the aluminum casings o
f the motor=2C so the corrosion takes place there rather than on the alumin
um.
The rule of thumb to be safe from galvanic corrosion is to have a differenc
e in anodic index of no more than about 0.15 - 0.20 for an outdoor environm
ent. Here is the chart:
Metal Category Anodic Inde
x (volts)
Gold=2C solid and plated 0.00
Rhodium plated on Silver-plated Copper 0.05
Silver=2C high Nickel-Copper alloys 0.15
Nickel=2C Titanium=2C Monel 0.30
Copper=2C Silver Solder=2C high Copper-Nickel 0.35
alloys=2C Nickel-Chromium alloys
Brasses & Bronzes 0.40
18% Chromium Stainless Steel 0.50
Chromium plating=2C Tin plating 0.60
Tin-Lead solder 0.65
Lead 0.70
Aluminum=2C wrought=2C 2000 series 0.75
Iron=2C plain carbon or low-alloy steel 0.85
Aluminum=2C wrought alloys other than 2000 0.90
series (such as 7075)
Cast Aluminum alloys=2C Cadmium plating 0.95
and Chromates
Hot-dip Zinc=2C galvanized steel 1.20
Zinc 1.25
Magnesium 1.75
Beryllium 1.85
One of the important things to notice is that cad-plated steel (such as AN
aircraft hardware) is not too bad when placed against 2024 series aluminum
=2C and is even better against 7075 series. What is surprising to most peo
ple is how bad stainless steel is against aluminum (difference of .40 to .5
0).
Hope this helps. By the way=2C I changed the subject to hopefully make thi
s chart easier to locate in the archives
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake=2C Virginia
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-lis
t-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of helspersew(at)aol.com
Sent: Sunday=2C January 29=2C 2012 7:32 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Question about lower fork ends- aluminum struts
Gardiner=2C
Here are a couple photos showing the jam nut on the fork threads=2C providi
ng for the adjustment and locking ability. I am not an engineer=2C I can't
imagine a corrosion problem between the fork threads and the 7075 aluminum
insert. Maybe someone with more technical knowledge could chime in (Jack or
Bill) and give us the official low-down. Hope this helps.
Dan Helsper
Puryear=2C TN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Clif Dawson" <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca> |
OK, Gotta start building floats for the Piet!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-mpvvcIlpA&feature=related
Clif
Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving
safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in
sideways, joystick in one hand, beer in the other, body thoroughly used
up, totally worn out and screaming "WOO HOO what a ride!"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ben Charvet <bencharvet(at)gmail.com> |
I didn't mean to do destructive testing on the whole wing, but to make
up a few joints, or an extra rib using the same technique you used, then
try to break the joints. Remaking a whole wing is pretty expensive
education if not necessary
Ben
On 1/29/2012 10:01 PM, rorichts wrote:
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "rorichts"
>
> Thanks for the help, wanting to error (maybe not a good choice of word) anyway
will redo wing and call the first part of the cost of education. It has been
and interesting experience.
> thanks again
> rich
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=365183#365183
>
>
--
Ben Charvet, PharmD
Staff Pharmacist
Parrish Medical center
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
I made cutouts. My plan was to attach the gussets on both sides at once. More pictures
are on my website if interested.
Michael Perez
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
It does work, but depending on how much glue you use, the gussets move arou
nd a bit while clamping.- You'll also notice that the small holes at the
ends of the jig only prevent glue from sticking to the jig itself, there is
no good way to get a simple clamp in there, so you still need to flip the
rib and glue those back-side gussets.
The bottles of T-88 I had at that time specifically stated to use minimal c
lamping pressure. So, I just=0A ended up doing one side at a time because I
felt the clamps were to strong and for the reason above, I knew I would ha
ve to flip the rib anyway.
Overall it worked really good. My jig and the full size plans underneath (t
raced) have zero glue on them and still look new.
Michael Perez
=0AKaretaker Aero
=0Awww.karetakeraero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Galvanic Corrosion |
| From: | "chase143(at)aol.com" <chase143(at)aol.com> |
Does anyone have experience with this galvanic corrosion preventative product on
aircraft, or have a thought as to why it would or would not be a good product
for aircraft? A friend says it is very well thought of in the boating industry,
where electrolysis is a much bigger problem. Wondering if it would work on
dissimilar aircraft metals, except where lubrication is not recommended, such
as locking nuts etc.
Steve
http://www.tefgel.com/contain.php?param=tefgel_infor
--------
Steve
www.mypiet.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=365236#365236
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Galvanic Corrosion |
Don't know anything about it. In general, I don't think galvanic corrosion
is a huge problem on aircraft as long as you are careful with disimilar
metals as much as possible. Maybe if your plane stayed outdoors near a
beach where the salt in the air could cause corrosion it would be a problem.
I know when I lived on the gulf coast of Texas, everything in my shop would
rust if I didn't keep oil on it.
When I was working at General Dynamics on the F-16 program, corrosion was a
huge concern. There, the standard practice was to dip every rivet in wet
epoxy primer before driving it, and every part was painted with epoxy
primer. Of course, that was in 1975 and those airplanes are still flying 37
years later so maybe the concern was justified.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
chase143(at)aol.com
Sent: Monday, January 30, 2012 1:57 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Galvanic Corrosion
Does anyone have experience with this galvanic corrosion preventative
product on aircraft, or have a thought as to why it would or would not be a
good product for aircraft? A friend says it is very well thought of in the
boating industry, where electrolysis is a much bigger problem. Wondering if
it would work on dissimilar aircraft metals, except where lubrication is not
recommended, such as locking nuts etc.
Steve
http://www.tefgel.com/contain.php?param=tefgel_infor
--------
Steve
www.mypiet.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=365236#365236
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Plywood Turtle Deck |
| From: | "FandS_Piet" <fkim79(at)gmail.com> |
I have thought about this long and hard before asking this question trying to avoid
the humility an obvious answer would cause me but here goes. Is there any
reason you cant use plywood for the turtle deck? It would seem that 1/16 ply
wouldn't be any heavier than 11 spruce stringers and without trying I also wouldn't
think that bending 1/16 ply around the turtle deck supports would be impossible.
I have not totally married myself to this idea but would just like the
opinions of the experts who have all pulled there hair out during turtle deck
construction before me.
Thanks,
Fred Kim
Pittsburgh, Pa
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=365238#365238
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Plywood Turtle Deck |
Fred,
You could probably do it, but I doubt it would have the strength needed
without the stringers underneath it. The turtledeck takes considerable
abuse since you pretty much have to sit your butt on it to get into the rear
cockpit. I think in order to have the necessary strength, you would end up
having the stringers anyway, and that would be quite a bit heavier. I put
some plywood in that area on top of the stringers just to reinforce it for
entry and egress from the cockpit. See photo below (you can see the
scalloped plywood on top of the stringers just aft of the rear seat):
It can certainly be done. I believe Dick Navratil's Rotec Radial powered
Pietenpol has a plywood turtledeck, but it also weighs over 800 lbs (not a
problem when you have 120 hp available).
Turtledeck construction is not difficult - it just requires a little thought
before you start cutting spruce.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of FandS_Piet
Sent: Monday, January 30, 2012 3:33 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Plywood Turtle Deck
I have thought about this long and hard before asking this question trying
to avoid the humility an obvious answer would cause me but here goes. Is
there any reason you cant use plywood for the turtle deck? It would seem
that 1/16 ply wouldn't be any heavier than 11 spruce stringers and without
trying I also wouldn't think that bending 1/16 ply around the turtle deck
supports would be impossible. I have not totally married myself to this idea
but would just like the opinions of the experts who have all pulled there
hair out during turtle deck construction before me.
Thanks,
Fred Kim
Pittsburgh, Pa
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=365238#365238
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Plywood Turtle Deck |
| From: | "kevinpurtee" <kevin.purtee(at)us.army.mil> |
Good question, Fred. You'll get lots of answers. Here's mine:
I think 1/16" plywood might be difficult to get the shape you want. 1mm ply is
thinner, if my math's right, and probably easier to manipulate.
I think the fabric covered turtle deck might be more durable. Stuff bounces off
that fabric. Stuff might not bounce off think plywood.
I didn't find the turtledeck to be particularly traumatic. I suspect you're right
about the weights being a wash.
--------
Kevin "Axel" Purtee
NX899KP
Austin/Georgetown, TX
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=365239#365239
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "C N Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Question about lower fork ends- aluminum struts |
Dan, question. I just obtained a set of Taylorcraft struts. They have
a adjusting gadget on the wing-end of the rear strut. It is in the
strut at an angle because of the V-strut arrangement. It probably has
only 1/2-inch of adjustment. Is that enough? I will have to cut the
end of the strut off and have it re-welded so that it comes out of the
strut straight rather than at an angle. Any suggestions? Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2012 7:32 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Question about lower fork ends- aluminum
struts
Gardiner,
Here are a couple photos showing the jam nut on the fork threads,
providing for the adjustment and locking ability. I am not an engineer,
I can't imagine a corrosion problem between the fork threads and the
7075 aluminum insert. Maybe someone with more technical knowledge could
chime in (Jack or Bill) and give us the official low-down. Hope this
helps.
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Jack's radio racks (Rymes don't it) |
Jack I really like your radio mounting location.- I might try to mount a
little handheld in my Jungster C/S.- Cockpit space is prime real estate i
n the little airplane, especially when my butt takes up it's fair share.-
What is carying the load of your comm radio?- Looks like possibly a alum
inum angle mouted to the rear spar?-- If you have any mor info let me k
now.- I am thinking, something where I can quickly, cleanly remove a hand
held trancevier to change batt when needed, sorta like a gizmo dock for tho
se new fangled electric map thingys.
-
Shad
--- On Mon, 1/30/12, Jack Phillips wrote:
-
-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "rorichts" <stolflite(at)gmail.com> |
thanks to all for the info and insight, also the the pics
much appreciated
rich
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=365247#365247
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC AEROSPACE CORP]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | thinking outside the hat box |
An option to the plans-drawn hat box is to dispense with the box altogether
and simply use a plywood
'floor' glued to the underside of under the upper longerons as I did shown
below. This setup provides
a very welcomed increase in storage behind the pilot.
Mike C.
[cid:image002.jpg(at)01CCDF75.EFED3650]
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Question about lower fork ends- aluminum struts |
| From: | helspersew(at)aol.com |
Chuck,
Well yes, 1/2" adjustment is enough, but that is providing you figured pret
ty darn close to perfect in the first place. I used a rotating laser light
level before I decided on a final cut length on my struts. I had the one-pi
ece wing attached and held up in position by some temporary wooden props to
hold up the wingtips. Double and triple check this before cutting. That is
my advise. Can anyone else expound on this subject?
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN
-----Original Message-----
From: C N Campbell <cncampbell(at)windstream.net>
Sent: Mon, Jan 30, 2012 3:19 pm
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Question about lower fork ends- aluminum strut
s
Dan, question. I just obtained a set of Taylorcraft struts. They have a a
djusting gadget on the wing-end of the rear strut. It is in the strut at
an angle because of the V-strut arrangement. It probably has only 1/2-inch
of adjustment. Is that enough? I will have to cut the end of the strut o
ff and have it re-welded so that it comes out of the strut straight rather
than at an angle. Any suggestions? Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2012 7:32 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Question about lower fork ends- aluminum struts
Gardiner,
Here are a couple photos showing the jam nut on the fork threads, providing
for the adjustment and locking ability. I am not an engineer, I can't imag
ine a corrosion problem between the fork threads and the 7075 aluminum inse
rt. Maybe someone with more technical knowledge could chime in (Jack or Bil
l) and give us the official low-down. Hope this helps.
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC AEROSPACE CORP]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | thinking outside the hat box |
On Behalf Of Gene Rambo
yes, but that does not do anything to strengthen the forward bulkhead.
Gene
Gene- I don't have a hat box and I can put my full 195 pounds on the turtle
deck with
my simple scalloped plywood overlay and the stringers.
Actually my bulkhead is even weaker than a hatboxed bulkhead because I have
a big half-moon cutout door in my bulkhead
and I still don't have a hatbox and haven't needed it to "strengthen my for
ward bulkhead any."
Anyway, it doesn't much matter as I haven't heard of any turtledecks caving
in on anyone lately.....with hatboxes
or without:).
Mike C.
[cid:image001.jpg(at)01CCDF7E.F2F4BAE0]
From: michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2012 16:38:14 -0600
Subject: Pietenpol-List: thinking outside the hat box
An option to the plans-drawn hat box is to dispense with the box altogether
and simply use a plywood
'floor' glued to the underside of under the upper longerons as I did shown
below. This setup provides
a very welcomed increase in storage behind the pilot.
Mike C.
[cid:image001.jpg(at)01CCDF7E.F2F4BAE0]
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: thinking outside the hat box |
That's good news Mike...since I made my storage "shelf" like you did, with
a big door/cutout to gain access. Comforting to know how well it has been h
olding up!
-
-
Michael Perez
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Jack's radio racks (Rymes don't it) |
Hi Shad,
I used the mounting tray designed for the radio and built a support frame of
aluminum angle to hold the tray, with a piano hinge just behind the spar so
that by loosening two screws, the whole assembly can swing down, allowing
the radio to be slid out of the tray for service. I did something similar
on the other side for the transponder. I made sheet metal fairings to cover
the bottom of the centersection on each side to cover the avionics, as shown
below:
On the whole, it works very well. I have to move my head out into the
slipstream to read the settings on the transponder, but I never turn it on
unless I'm flying into a Class C airspace. I bought all the avionics on
ebay for a total cost of less than $400.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of shad bell
Sent: Monday, January 30, 2012 4:40 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Jack's radio racks (Rymes don't it)
Jack I really like your radio mounting location. I might try to mount a
little handheld in my Jungster C/S. Cockpit space is prime real estate in
the little airplane, especially when my butt takes up it's fair share. What
is carying the load of your comm radio? Looks like possibly a aluminum
angle mouted to the rear spar? If you have any mor info let me know. I am
thinking, something where I can quickly, cleanly remove a handheld
trancevier to change batt when needed, sorta like a gizmo dock for those new
fangled electric map thingys.
Shad
--- On Mon, 1/30/12, Jack Phillips wrote:
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Piet2015" <archives(at)ktfiles.com> |
New guy here.
I'm currently building my Model A motor for my Piet.
What RPM do you Model A guys run?
What prop?
Anyone here running the dual plug Lion Speed Heed IV?
Running two mags for a dual ignition system should be pretty reliable one would
think.
Thanks CL
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=365265#365265
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gboothe5" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Question about lower fork ends- aluminum struts |
Just a thought.those of us using wood struts have no means of adjusting the
struts, short of making new brackets or connectors. When I asked Douwe how
he managed, he merely said to measure and drill holes carefully. I suspect
that is what Kevin did, too.
Gary from Cool
NX308MB
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
helspersew(at)aol.com
Sent: Monday, January 30, 2012 3:27 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Question about lower fork ends- aluminum struts
Chuck,
Well yes, 1/2" adjustment is enough, but that is providing you figured
pretty darn close to perfect in the first place. I used a rotating laser
light level before I decided on a final cut length on my struts. I had the
one-piece wing attached and held up in position by some temporary wooden
props to hold up the wingtips. Double and triple check this before cutting.
That is my advise. Can anyone else expound on this subject?
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN
-----Original Message-----
From: C N Campbell <cncampbell(at)windstream.net>
Sent: Mon, Jan 30, 2012 3:19 pm
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Question about lower fork ends- aluminum struts
Dan, question. I just obtained a set of Taylorcraft struts. They have a
adjusting gadget on the wing-end of the rear strut. It is in the strut at
an angle because of the V-strut arrangement. It probably has only 1/2-inch
of adjustment. Is that enough? I will have to cut the end of the strut off
and have it re-welded so that it comes out of the strut straight rather than
at an angle. Any suggestions? Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2012 7:32 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Question about lower fork ends- aluminum struts
Gardiner,
Here are a couple photos showing the jam nut on the fork threads, providing
for the adjustment and locking ability. I am not an engineer, I can't
imagine a corrosion problem between the fork threads and the 7075 aluminum
insert. Maybe someone with more technical knowledge could chime in (Jack or
Bill) and give us the official low-down. Hope this helps.
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN
" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
p://forums.matronics.com
blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dick N" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
| Subject: | Plywood turtle deck |
Here is a pic of my pietenpol. It wasnt hard to do at all. It has a 2
oz coat of fiberglass cloth over it.
Dick N
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Question about lower fork ends- aluminum struts |
Chuck,
I used those Taylorcraft adjustable strut ends on my Pietenpol rear
struts. I simply cut them out of the old struts and removed the old weld
bead with a file, and polished them. Then, using the rear T-Craft strut
material cut to the proper length, I installed these adjustable units at
the outboard end with an AN 5 bolt installed vertically through the
minor axis of the streamline tubing. This hole is 90 degrees to the
slotted hole in the adjustable fitting and provides a universal,
self-aligning, strut end similar in function to the strut ends shown on
the plans. I welded teardrop-shaped reinforcement doublers at both ends
of the rear struts. The inboard ends were pinched in a bit to fit over
the fuselage fittings. It was necessary to provide a spacer at the
outboard ends to fill the space between the spar fittings and the
T-Craft adjustable strut ends.
The front struts are similar, but are made from Aeronca front strut
material (I used what was available "at the right price" because I was
poor at the time). For the outboard end, I used 1 inch square tubing
with holes drilled at 90 degrees to provide the self-aligning feature.
Any adjustment can be made by simply cutting and drilling another piece
of square tubing to the desired length. (This method could also be used
for the rear struts.)
Since these struts are open at both ends, it is a good idea to coat the
inside with linseed oil or something similar for corrosion protection.
This arrangement has worked well for over 41 years and 800+ hours of fun
flying. It also provides flexibility if the wing is moved fore and aft
for CG adjustment by loosening (and, of course, retightening) the
vertical bolts.
Cheers,
Graham Hansen (Pietenpol CF-AUN in Alberta, Canada)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Jack's radio racks (Rymes don't it) |
Thanks Jack, The piano hinge seems like a good solution to accessability.
- I will start messing with my c/s in the spring, the fuse and bottom win
gs are out in the cold part of my hangar, the top wings and tail in the hea
ted shop.- I might just make a hinged panel with the knobs sticking out,
and strap the hanheld to the panel, only draw back is wires tied to my caba
nes, they are welded shut, and I cant run them thru the strut, pietenpol st
yle.- I might be able to tuck it inside the fuse somewhere, I got a ways
to go before getting carried away with it.- Thanks for the pics and the i
nfo.
-
Shad
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Clif Dawson" <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Question about lower fork ends- aluminum struts |
Why not? You have metal bracketing down there,
don't you?
So here is a idea. Just a beginning, mind you.
Possibilities abound. :-)
Clif
The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind
is a faithful servant.
We have created a society that honours the servant
and has forgotten the gift.
Albert Einstein
Just a thought.those of us using wood struts have no means of
adjusting the struts, short of making new brackets or connectors.
Gary from Cool
NX308MB
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Steam box for bending plywood |
Nice work Chuck. About the only thing you did different then me was soaking the
plywood. I soaked mine only an hour...or less.
Michael Perez
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> |
Welcome "new guy"
My plane started off with a Ford, so I did quite a bit of research, But it's
been a while, so triple ck these numbers. Dan, Larry and some of those
current Ford drivers would be the ones to listen to.
I THINK Larry Williams tried Lion Head, but not dual holes (I THINK) helped
a "tad" if I remember correctly, but didn't turn it into a fire breathing
dragon.
76X42 or 44 seems to be the prop range
I seem to remember that a strong Ford should turn one of those props around
1800 static. If you can get between 2000 and 2100 dynamic, you're doing
well I think. Again, these numbers are old memories now, so anyone else
pipe in. This doesn't count Lowell's Funk/ford which is putting out a whole
lot more hp.
My response to the double mag question is that it is up to you. Some argue
that one mag is a simpler installation with less to go wrong, and done
correctly is fine. Some argue that two mags, though more complex gives the
redundancy. Probably depends on how many guys you know who have lost mags
in flight. By far most Fords have historically flown with one and the
number one cause of mag issues in my reading of twenty five years of
newsletter back issues has been the mag adaptor loosening up, or the mag
coming loose and getting out of time.
Good luck!
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "C N Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Question about lower fork ends- aluminum struts |
Graham, thanks a bunch for your advice. I'm using the T-craft struts
for both the front and rear. The outside ends of the front struts will
work as is. I'll have to do something at the inside ends -- probably
the same as the Pietenpol plans.
----- Original Message -----
From: Graham Hansen
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, January 30, 2012 11:19 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Question about lower fork ends- aluminum
struts
Chuck,
I used those Taylorcraft adjustable strut ends on my Pietenpol rear
struts. I simply cut them out of the old struts and removed the old weld
bead with a file, and polished them. Then, using the rear T-Craft strut
material cut to the proper length, I installed these adjustable units at
the outboard end with an AN 5 bolt installed vertically through the
minor axis of the streamline tubing. This hole is 90 degrees to the
slotted hole in the adjustable fitting and provides a universal,
self-aligning, strut end similar in function to the strut ends shown on
the plans. I welded teardrop-shaped reinforcement doublers at both ends
of the rear struts. The inboard ends were pinched in a bit to fit over
the fuselage fittings. It was necessary to provide a spacer at the
outboard ends to fill the space between the spar fittings and the
T-Craft adjustable strut ends.
The front struts are similar, but are made from Aeronca front strut
material (I used what was available "at the right price" because I was
poor at the time). For the outboard end, I used 1 inch square tubing
with holes drilled at 90 degrees to provide the self-aligning feature.
Any adjustment can be made by simply cutting and drilling another piece
of square tubing to the desired length. (This method could also be used
for the rear struts.)
Since these struts are open at both ends, it is a good idea to coat
the inside with linseed oil or something similar for corrosion
protection.
This arrangement has worked well for over 41 years and 800+ hours of
fun flying. It also provides flexibility if the wing is moved fore and
aft for CG adjustment by loosening (and, of course, retightening) the
vertical bolts.
Cheers,
Graham Hansen (Pietenpol CF-AUN in Alberta, Canada)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Ford question |
| From: | "899PM" <rockriverrifle(at)hotmail.com> |
Douwe,
My lightly modified Ford is tuning a Sensenich 76-42 prop at 1960 rpm's static.
I mounted this same prop on my A-65 Taylorcraft and got just shy of 1900 static.
Engine includes an aluminum Winfield head that started life at 7:1 (now 6.7:1),
a modified "B" carb, a log style manifold, SS modern style vales and seats,
inserted rods and mains, full pressure to the mains only, and .080 over "A" pistons.
--------
PAPA MIKE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=365300#365300
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "l.morlock" <l.morlock(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Ford question |
Welcome to the "new guy" with the Ford question.
I acquired Douwe's Model A engine and put in in my Pietenpol. It turns
1860 static rpm with a 76 x 44 Hegy prop and a Ken Perkins B carb.
Haven't flown it yet. One of the reasons I bought it was to get an A
engine with modern bearing shells vs babbit bearings. I did have an A
engine on it with babbit bearings and a high compression head, and I was
not comfortable with that combination. Does your engine have babbit or
modern bearings?
Larry Morlock
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC AEROSPACE CORP]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | plywood wrap-around leading edge idea |
I've had the pleasure of periodically seeing Mike Perez's progress on h
is Pietenpol and was very impressed with the design idea and the fit and fi
nish of Mike's all-plywood leading edge wrap-around
technique. (the method that Chuck Campbell recently copied) It sure is ref
reshing to see what innovations builders come up with because just when you
think you've seen it all, you probably haven't. EAA's French Valley, CA
Chapter 1279's Pietenpol is like that and has some very clever, simple, and
elegant modifications that simplicate and add lightness!
http://www.eaa1279.org/pietenpol_project.html
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: plywood wrap-around leading edge idea |
Thanks Mike! Nice to get credit when credit is due.- The link you sent is
very cool as well, thanks.
Michael Perez
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Piper Lift struts on a Piet |
Group,
Has anyone used Piper lift struts on their Piet..... I have a chance to
buy a set of 4 nice struts off a Piper Colt, just wondering if they are
a little too wide and beefy for the Piet? The Piper's struts seem
almost double the size of my struts on my Taylorcraft. See attached
pic.
Brian
SLC-UT
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | airlion <airlion(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Piper Lift struts on a Piet |
I used piper J3 struts on my piet and would like to use them again but can'
t =0Afind any. So I will be using the Carlson aluminium struts. Gardiner=0A
=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: "brian.e.jardine@l-3co
m.com" =0ATo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com=0ASe
nt: Tue, January 31, 2012 6:42:09 PM=0ASubject: Pietenpol-List: Piper Lift
struts on a Piet=0A=0A=0AGroup,=0AHas anyone used Piper lift struts on thei
r Piet.. I have a chance to buy a set =0Aof 4 nice struts off a Pi
per Colt, just wondering if they are a little too wide =0Aand beefy for th
e Piet? The Piper=99s struts seem almost double the size of my =0Ast
ruts on my Taylorcraft. See attached pic.=0A =0ABrian=0ASLC-UT=0A =0Ahttp:
//www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com
=0Ahttp://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Piper Lift struts on a Piet |
| From: | John Kuhfahl <kuhlcouper(at)gmail.com> |
They will be too short--I tried it John
On Tue, Jan 31, 2012 at 5:42 PM, <brian.e.jardine@l-3com.com> wrote:
> Group,****
>
> Has anyone used Piper lift struts on their Piet=85.. I have a chance to b
uy
> a set of 4 nice struts off a Piper Colt, just wondering if they are a
> little too wide and beefy for the Piet? The Piper=92s struts seem almost
> double the size of my struts on my Taylorcraft. See attached pic.****
>
> ** **
>
> Brian****
>
> SLC-UT****
>
> ** **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List*
>
> **
>
> **
>
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--
John Kuhfahl, Lt Col USAF (Ret),
President, KUHLCOUPER LLC
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Steel LG Lug Thickness |
| From: | Mark Roberts <mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com> |
Hi All:
Can't find 5/16" 4130 steel for the split gear lugs at the wheel joint as
called for on the split gear plans (1" x 1 1/4" x 5/16" steel)...
I can only find 1/4" 4130. Considering this is stronger steel than the
original called out, am I assuming ya'll would be using the 1/4" 4130
steel... So it's shy a 1/16"... Am I on track?
Sorry if this one is a no brainer, but you know: a guy that doesn't seek
wisdom from others is likely to have a landing gear failure :o)
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Lift struts on a piet |
| From: | helspersew(at)aol.com |
This is the aluminum strut from Carlsons that I used. Plenty big for the Pi
et. Don't forget you have four of these going for you at all times.
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Model A Prop |
| From: | helspersew(at)aol.com |
New guy,
I get 1860 RPM static on a 76/46 prop on my Ford A. Ran a side-mounted mag
for awhile until it chewed-up my timing gear. Had to tear-down my entire en
gine. Now I am running with one crank-driven Slick. I would like to find a
WICO head-driven mag to run spark to my dual-plug head that I still have.
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN
-----Original Message-----
From: Piet2015 <archives(at)ktfiles.com>
Sent: Mon, Jan 30, 2012 8:01 pm
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Model A Prop
New guy here.
I'm currently building my Model A motor for my Piet.
What RPM do you Model A guys run?
What prop?
Anyone here running the dual plug Lion Speed Heed IV?
Running two mags for a dual ignition system should be pretty reliable one w
ould
hink.
Thanks CL
ead this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=365265#365265
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January 17, 2012 - February 01, 2012
Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-kz