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Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-la
February 01, 2012 - February 22, 2012

-= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -======================== -= - List Contribution Web Site - -= Thank you for your generous support! -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution -======================== ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 01, 2012
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Lift struts on a piet
Same ones I will be using as well. Michael Perez Karetaker Aero www.karetakeraero.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Model A Prop
From: "Piet2015" <archives(at)ktfiles.com>
Date: Feb 01, 2012
Hi Dan Thanks for the prop info. If I could find a Condor timing cover I was thinking the additional accessory boss and standard boss could be use to attach a dual mag mount driven off the crank via a dual pulley. The aluminum cover would also help offset the weight of the second mag. Are you a member of Secrets of Speed Society (SOSS)? Members get free ads in the magazine. I'm sure someone there has what you are looking for. CL Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=365405#365405 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "skipgadd(at)earthlink.net" <skipgadd(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Piper Lift struts on a Piet
Date: Feb 01, 2012
Brian, As Shad said Ed Delancey does have 4" lift struts on the front, that is the same size as the front (shorter) Colt struts. His struts are also short enough to be off a Colt 84". Ed has by the plans cabanes and a one piece wing, that may be why his struts are so short. Another Piet on the field has 2" longer than plans cabanes and 3 piece wing and his struts are 91". So I guess you could use them if you can satisfy yourself they are not rusted inside and they are long enough for your Piet. If you can get them for a good price with the fork ends, the forks alone may be worth the price. Skip ----- Original Message ----- From: Sent: 1/31/2012 6:46:49 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piper Lift struts on a Piet Group, Has anyone used Piper lift struts on their Piet.. I have a chance to buy a set of 4 nice struts off a Piper Colt, just wondering if they are a little too wide and beefy for the Piet? The Pipers struts seem almost double the size of my struts on my Taylorcraft. See attached pic. Brian SLC-UT ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 01, 2012
From: Ben Charvet <bencharvet(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Piper Lift struts on a Piet
That's what I used on mine. The front ones (shorter of the pair) were a perfect length for mine, and the rears needed to be shortened. I guess the key question is where did you put your brackets on your spar. Mine are a little further inboard than most. Mine were free, given to me by a friend at the airport, they are a little wide, but again they were FREE. Ben On 1/31/2012 7:42 PM, John Kuhfahl wrote: > They will be too short--I tried it John > > On Tue, Jan 31, 2012 at 5:42 PM, <brian.e.jardine@l-3com.com > brian.e.jardine@l-3com.com>> wrote: > > Group, > > Has anyone used Piper lift struts on their Piet.. I have a chance > to buy a set of 4 nice struts off a Piper Colt, just wondering if > they are a little too wide and beefy for the Piet? The Pipers > struts seem almost double the size of my struts on my > Taylorcraft. See attached pic. > > Brian > > SLC-UT > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List* > > ** > > ** > > *http://forums.matronics.com* > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > *http://www.matronics.com/contribution* > > ** > > * * > > > -- > John Kuhfahl, Lt Col USAF (Ret), > President, KUHLCOUPER LLC > * > > > * -- Ben Charvet, PharmD Staff Pharmacist Parrish Medical center ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Ford question
From: "Piet2015" <archives(at)ktfiles.com>
Date: Feb 02, 2012
[quote="l.morlock(at)att.net"]Does your engine have babbit or modern bearings? > [b] I go by CL My engine so far is Model A block new forged balanced crank new forged rods all "modern" inserted bearings new chevy type pistons touring cam up in the air is intake carb head ignition Thanks guys CL Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=365441#365441 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Motion Induced Blindness - video
From: "tkreiner" <tkreiner(at)gmail.com>
Date: Feb 02, 2012
Thought the list would benefit from this... and maybe keep all of us a little safer in the skies. Motion Induced Blindness - video ATC, radar controllers and pilots know this but who would have thought about drivers. Unfortunately we know that's not a problem for the people texting while driving. Indirect observation is pretty critical for preserving night vision while driving at night also. This is frightening! It works exactly like it says, and is one major reason people in cars can look right at you (when you're on a motorcycle or bicycle)--- AND NOT SEE YOU. >From a former Naval Aviator. This is a great illustration of what we were taught about scanning outside the cockpit when I went through training back in the '50s. We were told to scan the horizon for a short distance, stop momentarily, and repeat the process. I can remember being told why this was the most effective technique to locate other aircraft. It was emphasized (repeatedly) to NOT fix your gaze for more than a couple of seconds on any single object. The instructors, some of whom were WWII veterans with years of experience, instructed us to continually "keep our eyes moving and our head on a swivel" because this was the best way to survive, not only in combat, but from peacetime hazards (like a midair collision) as well. We basically had to take the advice on faith (until we could experience for ourselves) because the technology to demonstrate it didn't exist at that time. Click on the link below for a demonstration ... http://www.msf-usa.org/motion.html [Target fixation is also a phenomena that plays into this.] -------- Tom Kreiner Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=365447#365447 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Steel LG Lug Thickness
From: "kevinpurtee" <kevin.purtee(at)us.army.mil>
Date: Feb 02, 2012
I think you'll be ok with 1/4". Pretty sure that's what I used. I can measure this weekend. Slightly different topic: The attach lugs that form the hinge at the top of the gear legs are welded on in a cantilevered arrangement. On the advice of the FAA, I wrapped and welded thin steel finger reinforcements over the top of the lugs and then down onto the gear legs. That gives several inches of welded support to the lugs instead of approximately 1.5" of welded support in the case of the cantilevered arrangement. There's a reason I point this out. -------- Kevin "Axel" Purtee NX899KP Austin/Georgetown, TX Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=365455#365455 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "C N Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net>
Subject: Re: Motion Induced Blindness - video
Date: Feb 02, 2012
That's amazing. I knew the condition exists but have never seen it demonstrated before. ----- Original Message ----- From: "tkreiner" <tkreiner(at)gmail.com> Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2012 10:08 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Motion Induced Blindness - video > > Thought the list would benefit from this... and maybe keep all of us a > little safer in the skies. > > Motion Induced Blindness - video > > ATC, radar controllers and pilots know this but who would have thought > about drivers. Unfortunately we know that's not a problem for the people > texting while driving. > > Indirect observation is pretty critical for preserving night vision while > driving at night also. > > This is frightening! It works exactly like it says, and is one major > reason people in cars can ?~look right at you?T (when you're on a > motorcycle or bicycle)--- AND NOT SEE YOU. > >>From a former Naval Aviator. This is a great illustration of what we were >>taught about scanning outside the cockpit when I went through training >>back in the '50s. We were told to scan the horizon for a short distance, >>stop momentarily, and repeat the process. I can remember being told why >>this was the most effective technique to locate other aircraft. It was >>emphasized (repeatedly) to NOT fix your gaze for more than a couple of >>seconds on any single object. > > The instructors, some of whom were WWII veterans with years of experience, > instructed us to continually "keep our eyes moving and our head on a > swivel" because this was the best way to survive, not only in combat, but > from peacetime hazards (like a midair collision) as well. > > We basically had to take the advice on faith (until we could experience > for ourselves) because the technology to demonstrate it didn't exist at > that time. > > Click on the link below for a demonstration ... > http://www.msf-usa.org/motion.html [Target fixation is also a phenomena > that plays into this.] > > -------- > Tom Kreiner > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=365447#365447 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 02, 2012
From: Dan Gaston <design(at)aerocorpinc.com>
Subject: GN-1 PROJECT
Parting out my project was the last thing I wanted to do, but I guess I have no choice. I have a Continental A-65-8 with carb, mags,hub,and logs, on engine stand.Asking $3,000.00 I also still have my GN-1, partially built, but ALL the wood necessary to complete it is here, spars, sheeting, all of it. All but a few of the necessary metal fittings (laser cut), aluminum t.e.,jigs, plans. Asking $2,000.00. Even if you look down upon the GN-1 as inferior, the wood is worth the price for building a "real" Piet. Thank you, Dan Gaston Norwalk, Ohio ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 02, 2012
Subject: Re: Steel LG Lug Thickness
From: Mark Roberts <mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com>
Thanks for the advice on the added reinforcement. Do you have a pic of what you are describing? I am trying to visualize it and am having a bit of difficulty picturing in in my mind... Is what you are describing simply wrapping thin metal around the lugs on the legs of the LG and welding them down the tubes a bit? Or doing something like this on the lugs of the LG mounts where the LG meets the fuse? Thanks Kevin! Mark On Thu, Feb 2, 2012 at 9:24 AM, kevinpurtee wrote: > kevin.purtee(at)us.army.mil> > > I think you'll be ok with 1/4". Pretty sure that's what I used. I can > measure this weekend. > > Slightly different topic: The attach lugs that form the hinge at the top > of the gear legs are welded on in a cantilevered arrangement. On the > advice of the FAA, I wrapped and welded thin steel finger reinforcements > over the top of the lugs and then down onto the gear legs. That gives > several inches of welded support to the lugs instead of approximately 1.5" > of welded support in the case of the cantilevered arrangement. > > There's a reason I point this out. > > -------- > Kevin "Axel" Purtee > NX899KP > Austin/Georgetown, TX > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=365455#365455 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Steel LG Lug Thickness
From: "kevinpurtee" <kevin.purtee(at)us.army.mil>
Date: Feb 02, 2012
I don't have any pictures of the modification. Sorry. Here's a photo of the location I'm talking about. And yes, I'm talking about wrapping metal over the top of these lugs and down the gear legs 1.5" or so. Obviously the metal reinforcement is clearanced between the lugs. If you're a good welder you probably wouldn't need to worry about it. I'm an amateur and I've had well-documented problems with these welds so I took the FAA man's advice. -------- Kevin "Axel" Purtee NX899KP Austin/Georgetown, TX Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=365490#365490 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/landing_gear_top_lug_197.gif ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Wonder why this never caught on?
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 03, 2012
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "C N Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net>
Subject: Re: Wonder why this never caught on?
Date: Feb 03, 2012
Dan, if I didn't already have a set of wheels I might investigate this. Is this an old ad? Is the wheel still available? Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: helspersew(at)aol.com To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, February 03, 2012 10:13 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wonder why this never caught on? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 03, 2012
Subject: Re: Wonder why this never caught on?
From: Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com>
Chuck, Looks to be an ad similar to what would be found in the old Aerial Age magazines....1910's-20's era.... Ryan On Fri, Feb 3, 2012 at 9:40 AM, C N Campbell wrote: > ** > Dan, if I didn't already have a set of wheels I might investigate this. > Is this an old ad? Is the wheel still available? Chuck > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Steel LG Lug Thickness
Date: Feb 03, 2012
'Axel' wrote- >On the advice of the FAA, I wrapped and welded thin steel finger reinforcements >over the top of the lugs and then down onto the gear legs. That gives several >inches of welded support to the lugs instead of approximately 1.5" of welded >support in the case of the cantilevered arrangement. > > There's a reason I point this out. And there's a reason for builders to take heed. Don't ask me how I know, but let's just say it has to do with having your airplane up on sawhorses with the gear leg attach bracket weldments in pieces in your hand. It's not a very beefy design in the original setup. Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" Flying Squirrel N2069Z "Rocket" Medford, OR website at http://www.flysquirrel.net/rogueairparts ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Wonder why this never caught on?
From: "RickBright" <brightwellrichard(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Feb 03, 2012
Looks like the ones on the Indian were used with solid tires, maybe the introduction of pneumatic tires made the design not so popular? Cool idea and look, it amazes me some of the designs of the past that are forgotten. Really look good on the Indian, a polished functional pair would look great on a Piet.... Rick Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=365540#365540 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Wonder why this never caught on?
From: "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Feb 03, 2012
Probably because of either materials/mfg methods of the time... or advertising. Recall the generally considered more better beta got beat by vhs, and the Allis Chalmers snap coupler fell prey to the (ford or deere?) 3pt hitch. Doesn't mean it wouldn't work really well now. Appears there were all sorts of rube goldberg methods of doing this, but those ackerman's look pretty good. tools Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=365543#365543 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 03, 2012
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Wonder why this never caught on?
I agree Chuck! As you said, if I didn't already have my wire wheels... Do a search for "airless tire"- and you'll find all kinds of links and vi deos. I like the looks of the picture that started this thread, very elegant. Michael Perez =0AKaretaker Aero =0Awww.karetakeraero.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Wonder why this never caught on?
From: Hans Van Der Voort <hvandervoo(at)aol.com>
Date: Feb 03, 2012
Actually some thing like this we will see in the near future. Michellin is testing it as an airless tire, see attached Might have airplane applications, much lighter than a normal tire/wheel com bination Hans -----Original Message----- From: helspersew <helspersew(at)aol.com> Sent: Fri, Feb 3, 2012 9:19 am Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wonder why this never caught on? -= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List - -======================== -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -======================== -= - List Contribution Web Site - -= Thank you for your generous support! -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution -======================== ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "C N Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net>
Subject: Re: Wonder why this never caught on?
Date: Feb 03, 2012
Hey! That was even before MY time. C ----- Original Message ----- From: Ryan Mueller To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, February 03, 2012 11:01 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wonder why this never caught on? Chuck, Looks to be an ad similar to what would be found in the old Aerial Age magazines....1910's-20's era.... Ryan On Fri, Feb 3, 2012 at 9:40 AM, C N Campbell wrote: Dan, if I didn't already have a set of wheels I might investigate this. Is this an old ad? Is the wheel still available? Chuck ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Wonder why this never caught on? ATT: Douwe Blumberg
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 03, 2012
That pic was posted to the Antique Airfield sight. I think Douwe ought to make these. This is right up his alley. Dan Helsper Puryear, TN -----Original Message----- From: helspersew <helspersew(at)aol.com> Sent: Fri, Feb 3, 2012 9:19 am Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wonder why this never caught on? -= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List - -======================== -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -======================== -= - List Contribution Web Site - -= Thank you for your generous support! -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution -======================== ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Instrument Panel?
From: "FandS_Piet" <fkim79(at)gmail.com>
Date: Feb 03, 2012
This might seem like a simple question to some. When you laid out your instrument panel did you purchase the instruments first so you could trace them on to the panel? How did you know what size hole to cut out for each? Thanks, Fred Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=365566#365566 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Instrument Panel?
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 03, 2012
Fred, Instruments are mostly standard sizes, but if I were you, I would wait unti l I had ALL of the instruments in hand before I cut any holes. Chances are you will change your mind about something along the way. Dan Helsper Puryear, TN -----Original Message----- From: FandS_Piet <fkim79(at)gmail.com> Sent: Fri, Feb 3, 2012 5:03 pm Subject: Pietenpol-List: Instrument Panel? This might seem like a simple question to some. When you laid out your nstrument panel did you purchase the instruments first so you could trace t hem n to the panel? How did you know what size hole to cut out for each? Thanks, Fred ead this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=365566#365566 -= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List - -======================== -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -======================== -= - List Contribution Web Site - -= Thank you for your generous support! -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution -======================== ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 03, 2012
From: John Franklin <jbfjr(at)peoplepc.com>
Subject: Re: Instrument Panel?
Fred, There are websites that have free software that you can use to design your instrument panel: http://www.frontpanelexpress.com/ is one example. Some of the instruments have recommended cutout dimensions, but not all. I waited until I had the instruments before cutting the holes. To cut the bigger and non-standard holes I used a fly-cutter bit and it worked well on my drill press. Good luck, John Franklin GN-1 / Corvair Prairie Aire 4TA0 Needville, TX -----Original Message----- From: helspersew(at)aol.com Sent: Feb 3, 2012 5:12 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Instrument Panel? Fred, Instruments are mostly standard sizes, but if I were you, I would wait until I had ALL of the instruments in hand before I cut any holes. Chances are you will change your mind about something along the way. Dan Helsper Puryear, TN -----Original Message----- From: FandS_Piet <fkim79(at)gmail.com> Sent: Fri, Feb 3, 2012 5:03 pm Subject: Pietenpol-List: Instrument Panel? This might seem like a simple question to some. When you laid out your instrument panel did you purchase the instruments first so you could trace them on to the panel? How did you know what size hole to cut out for each? Thanks, Fred Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=365566#365566 " target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List p://forums.matronics.com blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 03, 2012
From: Ben Charvet <bencharvet(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Instrument Panel?
Aircraft instruments are pretty standard in size, really only two sizes. I used automotive oil pressure and temp gauges, and they are a third size. The Pietenpol panel sits pretty low to your line of site, so you really need to sit in the pilot's seat and figure out where to put them so you can see them. I have a mechanical tach, that required a 90 degree adapter to hook up the tach cable. I had to rotate the oil pressure/temp gauges so I would be able to see them properly. I cut all the holes with a special hole saw you mount in a drill press, as my panel is oak plywood. Ben On 2/3/2012 5:59 PM, FandS_Piet wrote: > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "FandS_Piet" > > This might seem like a simple question to some. When you laid out your instrument panel did you purchase the instruments first so you could trace them on to the panel? How did you know what size hole to cut out for each? > Thanks, > Fred > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=365566#365566 > > -- Ben Charvet, PharmD Staff Pharmacist Parrish Medical center ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 04, 2012
From: jeff wilson <jlwilsonnn(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: OLMSTED PROP & ACKERMAN WHEELS
Found this photo of an Olmsted prop and Ackerman Wheels on a JN-4 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Instrument Panel?
From: "pineymb" <airltd(at)mts.net>
Date: Feb 04, 2012
As mentioned by others, measurements are standard for most aircraft instruments. The following website has all this information with dimensioning that could be transfered to a DXF file and cut out with a laser for a perfect fit http://www.mikesflightdeck.com/dimensions/instrument_cutouts.html. Did this on my first Piet project and it worked out pretty good I think. Actually copied the look from Mike C. and maybe a few others. -------- Adrian M Winnipeg, MB Canada Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=365607#365607 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00056_139.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB" <steven.d.dortch(at)us.army.mil>
Date: Feb 04, 2012
Subject: Re: OLMSTED PROP & ACKERMAN WHEELS
http://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/shared/media/photodb/photos/090714-F-1234S-003.jpg the third prop from the left is an Olmsted prop. Beautiful. ----- Original Message ----- From: jeff wilson <jlwilsonnn(at)yahoo.com> Date: Saturday, February 4, 2012 5:52 Subject: Pietenpol-List: OLMSTED PROP & ACKERMAN WHEELS > Found this photo of an Olmsted prop and Ackerman Wheels on a JN-4 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 04, 2012
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Instrument Panel?
I agree with the idea of having all of your instrument panel mountings on h and prior to making holes in it. Also keep in mind,-you may want to inclu de ignit./mag switch, various toggle and/or rocker switches, levers, knobs etc. for various components depending on your set up. - I found that the simple hole saws with a scrap piece of wood as a backer fo r drilling was easiest. Michael Perez Karetaker Aero www.karetakeraero.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Where to get pietenpol plans
From: "Lascaster" <lascaster(at)gmail.com>
Date: Feb 04, 2012
hey guys, new user here, ive been browsing around, lots of great info here, but i cant seem to find where to get plans. I know you used to be able to get them from pietenpol himself, but his website appears to be shut down. Im hoping to get some [lans soon to review them and decide if this is the airplane I would like to build. I dont know if it matters, but i would like to get plans for the long fuse. Thanks guys!!! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=365634#365634 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Greg Cardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Where to get pietenpol plans
Date: Feb 04, 2012
Try here: http://community.pressenter.net/~apietenp/Product.html Greg Cardinal Minneapolis ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lascaster" <lascaster(at)gmail.com> Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 3:26 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Where to get pietenpol plans > > hey guys, new user here, ive been browsing around, lots of great info > here, but i cant seem to find where to get plans. I know you used to be > able to get them from pietenpol himself, but his website appears to be > shut down. > Im hoping to get some [lans soon to review them and decide if this is the > airplane I would like to build. I dont know if it matters, but i would > like to get plans for the long fuse. > > Thanks guys!!! > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=365634#365634 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Where to get pietenpol plans
From: "Lascaster" <lascaster(at)gmail.com>
Date: Feb 04, 2012
THANKS!!!! I believe thats the website I've been going to for a few days, I think it may have been down. Thanks a lot though!! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=365637#365637 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: optional lift struts- conjecturing
From: "DOMIT" <rx7_ragtop(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Feb 04, 2012
flyingscott_k(at)hotmail. wrote: > A resourceful homebuilder could also plumb a refuelling nozzle up there for air to air refills. > > -- What would you use for a tanker that has the right speed range? The Goodyear Blimp? -------- Brad "DOMIT" Smith First rule of ground school: This is the ground... don't hit it going fast. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=365648#365648 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Bingelis books for sale?
From: Mark Roberts <mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com>
Date: Feb 04, 2012
Hi All: Thought I'd check here before ordering from EAA in case it might help someone sell books not being used... I am looking for a set of the Tony Bingelis books on building. I already have the blue one: the sport plane builder. I'd like to get the other 3, or you want, the whole set of 4. I just bought one book originally and thought I'd get the rest when I needed them. Well, now I need them! You can email me directly or hit me back here and I'll connect with you: mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com Mark Just about to flip the fuse over on it's belly tomorrow! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Greg Cardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Where to get pietenpol plans
Date: Feb 04, 2012
There are two other websites well worth your time to check out: http://pietenpols.org/index.html and www.westcoastpiet.com Lots of good info. Where are you located? You will probably be able to find a Pietenpol not too far away. The Pietenpol reunion in Brodhead, WI is scheduled for July 19 - 22 this year. Try not to miss it. Greg ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lascaster" <lascaster(at)gmail.com> Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 3:26 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Where to get pietenpol plans > > hey guys, new user here, ive been browsing around, lots of great info > here, but i cant seem to find where to get plans. I know you used to be > able to get them from pietenpol himself, but his website appears to be > shut down. > Im hoping to get some [lans soon to review them and decide if this is the > airplane I would like to build. I dont know if it matters, but i would > like to get plans for the long fuse. > > Thanks guys!!! > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=365634#365634 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Alan Wise Builder Pietenpol N3513 GONE WEST
From: "Jerry Dotson" <jdotson(at)centurylink.net>
Date: Feb 05, 2012
Allan Wise WISE, ALLAN, slipped the surly bonds of earth and entered his eternal home in heaven on Wednesday, December 7, 2011, peacefully surrounded by his family. Allan was born in Leavittsburg, Ohio on June 6, 1919 to Wilbur and Emily Wise. Allan is survived by his wife of 69 years, Savel. Allan and Savel have four children, Sidney Jay (Sandra), Roger Jay (Pam), Beverly Allan (Hardee), and Allan Jay Jr. (Roy), six grandchildren, Matthew Jay, Samuel Jay (Rhonda), Robert Jay, David Jay, Emily Anna and Abigail Allan, two great-grandchildren, Maxwell Jay, Alma Jay and a step-granddaughter, Meagan. Allan served in the USAF for 22 years. During his military service he fought in World War II flying B-24's in the Pacific, the Korean War flying AT-6's as a forward air controller, and flew C-54's during the Berlin Airlift. He also flew B-25's, P-51's, and served as an instructor pilot in the T-33 jet aircraft. Allan retired at the rank of Major, a shining example of the "greatest generation" of men and women who have served our county so honorably. After retiring from the Air Force Allan and Savel used their life's savings to purchase Colonial Car Wash, Orlando, and owned and operated the business for 14 years. Allan is a well known aviator, truly a pilot's pilot. He spent many happy years in retirement flying his award winning Pietenpol aircraft across the State of Florida. Allan flew his last solo flight when he was 85 years old flying his Pietenpol aircraft to Lakeland, Florida, where it is proudly displayed in the Sun 'N Fun Museum. Allan was an active member of Reformation Lutheran Church on Michigan Avenue in Orlando. He was also active in many flying organizations to include the Experimental Aircraft Association and EAA Chapter 74 in Orlando, Vintage Aircraft Association, Florida Sport Aircraft Aviation and Classic Association, the Quiet Birdmen, Jolly Rogers Association, OX5 Aviation Pioneers, and the Pietenpol Association. Allan was a member of Elks Lodge 1079 in Orlando and the Sertoma Club. Allan exemplified the Golden Rule by way he lived his life. He had so many friends who will miss him dearly. Throughout their lives his children have had the pleasure of hearing many times how much their father was loved and admired by his many acquaintances. The viewing is planned for 6 PM to 8 PM on Saturday, December 10th, at the Baldwin-Fairchild Funeral Home at 7520 Aloma Ave, Winter Park. The memorial service will be held at 1 PM on Sunday, December 11th, at ! Reformat ion Lutheran Church, 800 E. Michigan Street followed by internment at the Glen Haven Cemetery in Winter Park. In lieu of flowers the family suggests remembrances may be made to Reformation Lutheran Church, 800 E. Michigan Street, Orlando, FL 32806. Published in the Orlando Sentinel on December 9, 2011 -------- Jerry Dotson 59 Daniel Johnson Rd Baker, FL 32531 Started building NX510JD July, 2009 now covering and painting 21" wheels Lycoming O-235 C2C Jay Anderson CloudCars prop 76 X 44 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=365659#365659 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/598334_693.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Pietenpol Aerial for sale
From: "Wildman" <scrambler13(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Feb 05, 2012
Pietenpol Aerial Bi-Plane finished and ready to fly. Lycoming 0-290-G, 217 SOH, starter, alternator, strobes, cub gear, 4130 chrome Moly fuselage, elevator trim, new slick mags, primer system, 21 gal. main fuel tank, 7 gal. aux., door opens over passenger seat for easy access, toe brakes, I have $11,400 in reciepts for building material fuselage only. Has airworthy cert, Need to sell...Asking $10,000.00 Call for for info. Wade @ 423-539-0527 -------- Pietenpol Aerial Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=365663#365663 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/mvc_007f_207.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/mvc_006f_801.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/mvc_005f_211.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/mvc_003f_968.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/mvc_003f_540.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
From: AMsafetyC(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 05, 2012
Subject: Re: Pietenpol Aerial for sale
In a message dated 2/5/2012 11:45:11 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, scrambler13(at)hotmail.com writes: _http://forums.matronics.com//files/mvc_007f_207.jpg_ (http://forums.matronics.com//files/mvc_007f_207.jpg) Perfect for wing walking ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "C N Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol Aerial for sale
Date: Feb 05, 2012
I wonder how much that lower wing slows the Piet down? Anyone know? C ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wildman" <scrambler13(at)hotmail.com> Sent: Sunday, February 05, 2012 11:42 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol Aerial for sale > > Pietenpol Aerial Bi-Plane finished and ready to fly. Lycoming 0-290-G, 217 > SOH, starter, alternator, strobes, cub gear, 4130 chrome Moly fuselage, > elevator trim, new slick mags, primer system, 21 gal. main fuel tank, 7 > gal. aux., door opens over passenger seat for easy access, toe brakes, I > have $11,400 in reciepts for building material fuselage only. Has > airworthy cert, Need to sell...Asking $10,000.00 Call for for info. Wade > @ 423-539-0527 > > -------- > Pietenpol Aerial > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=365663#365663 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/mvc_007f_207.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/mvc_006f_801.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/mvc_005f_211.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/mvc_003f_968.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/mvc_003f_540.jpg > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 05, 2012
Subject: Re: Model A Prop
From: macz(at)peak.org
Dan-- I've got a Wico X--is that the mag you are looking for? --Mac in Oregon > > New guy, > > I get 1860 RPM static on a 76/46 prop on my Ford A. Ran a side-mounted mag > for awhile until it chewed-up my timing gear. Had to tear-down my entire > engine. Now I am running with one crank-driven Slick. I would like to find > a WICO head-driven mag to run spark to my dual-plug head that I still > have. > > Dan Helsper > Puryear, TN > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Piet2015 <archives(at)ktfiles.com> > To: pietenpol-list > Sent: Mon, Jan 30, 2012 8:01 pm > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Model A Prop > > > New guy here. > I'm currently building my Model A motor for my Piet. > What RPM do you Model A guys run? > What prop? > Anyone here running the dual plug Lion Speed Heed IV? > Running two mags for a dual ignition system should be pretty reliable one > would > hink. > > > Thanks CL > > > ead this topic online here: > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=365265#365265 > > > -= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum - > -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse > -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, > -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, > -= Photoshare, and much much more: > - > -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > - > -========================-= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - > -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! > - > -= --> http://forums.matronics.com > - > -========================-= - List Contribution Web Site - > -= Thank you for your generous support! > -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. > -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution > -======================= > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Pietenpol Aerial for sale
From: "peteohms" <pchristensen10(at)austin.rr.com>
Date: Feb 05, 2012
What's the gross wt. And empty wt. Pete -------- Pete Leander, TX Kitfox III, 912ul, Grove Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=365688#365688 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Pietenpol Aerial for sale
From: "Wildman" <scrambler13(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Feb 05, 2012
It has a cruise speed of 85-90 MPH. Empty weight is 1087, Gross weight is 1700 -------- Pietenpol Aerial Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=365693#365693 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 05, 2012
From: <r.r.hall(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol Aerial for sale
Is this the same one you bought and it fell off the trailor so you had to rebuild the fuselage? I would love to see it where is it located? Rodney Hall ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Pietenpol Aerial for sale
From: "Wildman" <scrambler13(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Feb 06, 2012
Yes it is the very same one. It is located in Oneida Tenn. Airport SCX That is about 60 miles North of Knoxville. Wade 423-539-0527 -------- Pietenpol Aerial Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=365707#365707 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Aircamper Logo
From: "pineymb" <airltd(at)mts.net>
Date: Feb 06, 2012
I have this Aircamper logo that I downloaded a couple of years ago, and would like to have a decal made up to put on the side of my airplane. Can anyone out there tell me if it is OK to reproduce this logo for my own use or do I need permission from someone or some organization. Thanks in advance -------- Adrian M Winnipeg, MB Canada Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=365710#365710 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/pavliga_logo_195_929.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Aircamper Logo
From: "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com>
Date: Feb 06, 2012
That is Frank Pavliga's logo. If you contact me off-list I can provide you with some contact info. WingWright(at)gmail.com Don Emch NX899DE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=365721#365721 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Where to get pietenpol plans
From: "Lascaster" <lascaster(at)gmail.com>
Date: Feb 06, 2012
Yeah, I've looked at both of those sites, learned quite a bit from them too. I'm located in central illinois. Would love to find someone with a piet under construction or flying in the area to check it out. Mostly to help me decide if a piet is the right place for me. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=365727#365727 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Where to get pietenpol plans
From: "Billy McCaskill" <billmz(at)cox.net>
Date: Feb 06, 2012
Lascaster, You need to see if you can get in touch with a fellow named Dave Boyd from Champaign, IL. He's a member of EAA Chapter 29, and he's finishing up a Pietenpol. Champaign isn't that far from Mattoon. The only contact info I have for him is his email address: dnboyd1 (at) comcast.net Tell him Billy McCaskill said to look you up. I would also suggest joining your local EAA Chapter as soon as possible. Lots of great resources for those who are building, and those who aspire to build. -------- Billy McCaskill Urbana, IL tail section almost done, starting on ribs soon Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=365731#365731 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 06, 2012
From: Lawrence Williams <lnawms(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: re:Pietenpol Ariel for sale
Wasn't aware that BHP ever designed anything named "Ariel". Must be a different guy named Pietenpol. Larry(Top Curmudgeon) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC AEROSPACE CORP]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Date: Feb 06, 2012
Subject: French Valley EAA Chapter 1279 Pietnepol project update
Here's an update from that fantastic EAA group from California who brought their uncovered Pietenpol to Brodhead and Oshkosh, 2010! Chapter President Ste ve Williamson on left. [cid:image003.jpg(at)01CCE4D1.B3B73D50] From: ThePhoebusC(at)aol.com [mailto:ThePhoebusC(at)aol.com] Dear Members, Things are happening quickly these days with our Pietenpol project. On New Years Eve we transported the project from the painting facility near the P erris Valley Airport back to our hangar at French Valley. We want to than k Chris Frisella, owner of Bone Head Composites, for generously offering us the use of his commercial paint booth for the two weeks it took to complet e the painting process. The Poly Fiber process required that we apply two coats of fabric sealer on everything; followed by three "cross coats" of si lver UV protector on everything; and, finally, three coats of final color. Each coat required drying time. And, in the case of the silver coats, san ding between coats. Wow, what a chore! But it yielded great results. The following Saturday we began the process of "final assembly." We starte d by attaching the undercarriage and setting the fuselage on the gear. The n we attached the tail feathers and bracing wires. The next Saturday we attached the cabane struts and wing center section, th en the wings and lift struts. We all stood back and enjoyed the fact that the project was finally beginning to look like a finished airplane. On the last Sunday of the month we were able to roll the airplane out to th e terminal building to show it off at our monthly membership meeting. The first weekend of February had us mounting the engine and rigging the ta il. (See photos below) It is time to begin the paperwork in preparation for registration. Since t he airplane has been a group project through our chapter's Builders' Worksh op Program, we wanted to chose an N number that included our EAA chapter nu mber "1279." Unfortunately, the simple number "N1279" was taken. So, it w as necessary to add a suffix. A two-letter suffix like "FV" for French Val ley resulted in too many characters. We had to settle on a single-letter s uffix. There were several available. We simply had to chose one that we t hought would look appropriate when affixed to the airplane. We chose the l etter "Z" for no particular reason and sent in a request to FAA to reserve the number. The next step was to order the Aircraft Registration Kit avail able through EAA Headquarters. We are told by our DAR, John Shablow, that processing the paperwork through FAA takes about three months. In the mean time, there is plenty of work that remains. You know what builders say, "W hen you think your 90 percent finished, you've got about 90 percent to go!" Maybe so, but at the current pace we can at least see the light at the en d of the tunnel. After nearly seven years of construction, it appears that the airplane is indeed going to be finished and flying soon. As always, we welcome visitors. So come on out any Saturday morning and se e our progress. Or lend a hand, if you are so inclined. I promise you, yo u will learn something. And this is, after all, a learning process for all of us. Steve Williamson, Pres. EAA Chapter 1279 French Valley [cid:X.MA1.1328550106(at)aol.com] With the fuselage on the gear, Dave McPhee and Dave Winsett attach the tail feathers. [cid:X.MA2.1328550106(at)aol.com] Gear and tail feathers attached. [cid:X.MA3.1328550106(at)aol.com] Wings attached. [cid:X.MA4.1328550106(at)aol.com] Engine mounted. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 06, 2012
Subject: Re: re:Pietenpol Ariel for sale
From: BRETT PHILLIPS <bphillip(at)shentel.net>
I believe that the "Aerial" is a Chad Wille modification of the Air Camper design. Brett Phillips I guess we can archive this one? On Mon, Feb 6, 2012 at 1:08 PM, Lawrence Williams wrote: > Wasn't aware that BHP ever designed anything named "Ariel". Must be a > different guy named Pietenpol. > > Larry(Top Curmudgeon) > > ** > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 06, 2012
From: Dan Gaston <design(at)aerocorpinc.com>
Subject: GN-1 PROJECT
I am listing this again in case anyone missed it.Parting out my project was the last thing I wanted to do, but I guess I have no choice. I have a Continental A-65-8 with carb, mags,hub,and logs, on engine stand.Asking $3,000.00 I also still have my GN-1, partially built, but ALL the wood necessary to complete it is here, spars, sheeting, all of it. All but a few of the necessary metal fittings (laser cut), aluminum t.e.,jigs, plans. Asking $2,000.00.All wood from A.S.& S. Thank you, Dan Gaston Norwalk, Ohio ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Piet on skis
From: "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca>
Date: Feb 06, 2012
Just found these videos on youtube. Of course, they've only been up for a day, so I'm not surprised that noone has mentioned them yet. Take-off: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5OaLPnGf2E Landing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q99aEJjzBX0&feature=related Pretty cool, Adrian! Bill C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=365769#365769 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 06, 2012
Subject: Re: Steel LG Lug Thickness
From: Mark Roberts <mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com>
Thanks for the pic! I will make appropriate welds and strap reinforcements. Thank you! Mark On Thu, Feb 2, 2012 at 2:11 PM, kevinpurtee wrote: > kevin.purtee(at)us.army.mil> > > I don't have any pictures of the modification. Sorry. Here's a photo of > the location I'm talking about. And yes, I'm talking about wrapping metal > over the top of these lugs and down the gear legs 1.5" or so. Obviously > the metal reinforcement is clearanced between the lugs. > > If you're a good welder you probably wouldn't need to worry about it. I'm > an amateur and I've had well-documented problems with these welds so I took > the FAA man's advice. > > -------- > Kevin "Axel" Purtee > NX899KP > Austin/Georgetown, TX > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=365490#365490 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/landing_gear_top_lug_197.gif > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 06, 2012
Subject: Re: Steel LG Lug Thickness
From: Mark Roberts <mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com>
Would that be the same steel thickness as the control horns are made of? Would that work for this? The reason I ask is I am compiling the Steel Order for Aircraft Spruce, and I will need to order appropriate thickness material. Thanks again all! Mark On Fri, Feb 3, 2012 at 8:36 AM, Oscar Zuniga wrote: > > > 'Axel' wrote- > > >On the advice of the FAA, I wrapped and welded thin steel finger > reinforcements > >over the top of the lugs and then down onto the gear legs. That gives > several > >inches of welded support to the lugs instead of approximately 1.5" of > welded > >support in the case of the cantilevered arrangement. > > > > There's a reason I point this out. > > And there's a reason for builders to take heed. Don't ask me how I know, > but let's > just say it has to do with having your airplane up on sawhorses with the > gear > leg attach bracket weldments in pieces in your hand. It's not a very > beefy design > in the original setup. > > Oscar Zuniga > Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" > Flying Squirrel N2069Z "Rocket" > Medford, OR > website at http://www.flysquirrel.net/rogueairparts > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 06, 2012
From: Dan Yocum <yocum(at)fnal.gov>
Subject: Re: Piet on skis
Hey look! I think that's... could it be.... snow? I seem to recall what that stuff looks like. humph. Are those homebuilt skis, Adrian? Dan On 02/06/2012 06:24 PM, Bill Church wrote: > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Bill Church" > > Just found these videos on youtube. > Of course, they've only been up for a day, so I'm not surprised that noone has mentioned them yet. > > Take-off: > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5OaLPnGf2E > Landing: > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q99aEJjzBX0&feature=related > > Pretty cool, Adrian! > > Bill C. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=365769#365769 > > -- Dan Yocum Fermilab 630.840.6509 yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things." ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Piet on skis
From: "pineymb" <airltd(at)mts.net>
Date: Feb 07, 2012
Dan Yes the skis are homebuilt, they are nothing more than aircraft ply glued up in a gig to a thickness of 1/2" than coated with epoxy to provide durability and to reduce friction over that white stuff. Made up a set of dolly wheels with a shaft that slips into the axles and a pivot arm that allows the skis to be raised off the ground in order to maneuver the plane in the hanger (dolly visible on hanger floor) You must be familiar with that white stuff in Illinois or not?? Actually this past weekend was the first time this winter that there has been enough snow to take the plane out, what a blast!!! -------- Adrian M Winnipeg, MB Canada Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=365797#365797 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00004_585.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Steel LG Lug Thickness
From: "kevinpurtee" <kevin.purtee(at)us.army.mil>
Date: Feb 07, 2012
Sorry, Mark, I don't remember. It was thin gauge that was laying in the scrap bin. The control horn steel would probably be ok. It has to be thin enough to form around the lugs and the top of the gear. Maybe get a couple of 12x12 pieces of various sizes to be on the safe side? You'll end up using whatever you get for something. -------- Kevin "Axel" Purtee NX899KP Austin/Georgetown, TX Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=365799#365799 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Wing tip fitting holes
From: "Catdesigns" <Catdesigns(at)att.net>
Date: Feb 07, 2012
John Drill the holes after you get the wing tip built and your fittings made. After that it will be apparent where the holes need to be. I drilled my holes on the center line of the spar and it was a little to low because the bolt head on the out side was slightly below the fat part of the wing tip and looked bad. Chris -------- Chris Sacramento, CA WestCoastPiet.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=365804#365804 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "skipgadd(at)earthlink.net" <skipgadd(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Steel LG Lug Thickness
Date: Feb 07, 2012
Kevin and Mark, Just for reference, Wag Aero uses .063 steel for the finger straps in a similar reinforcement on their Cuby plans. The thicker steel is harder to bend but easier to weld. Skip > [Original Message] > From: kevinpurtee <kevin.purtee(at)us.army.mil> > To: > Date: 2/7/2012 9:36:59 AM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Steel LG Lug Thickness > > > Sorry, Mark, I don't remember. It was thin gauge that was laying in the scrap bin. The control horn steel would probably be ok. It has to be thin enough to form around the lugs and the top of the gear. Maybe get a couple of 12x12 pieces of various sizes to be on the safe side? You'll end up using whatever you get for something. > > -------- > Kevin "Axel" Purtee > NX899KP > Austin/Georgetown, TX > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=365799#365799 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Model-A starting problem
From: "BYD" <billsayre(at)ymail.com>
Date: Feb 07, 2012
Excuse me folks, a fellow lover of the blue has got a problem.. Ive been trying to start my Model-A Pietenpol, which is stiff from fresh overhaul. Try as I might, I cant get even a puff or pop out of it. Fuel, compression, timing and spark right? I can guarantee fuel by pouring a small amount in the spark-plug hole before propping (have also utilized starting fluid). Certainly has compression (verified with a thumb over the spark-plug hole while searching for top dead center). Timing is set at 28-degrees BTC and if you lay a spark-plug on the head and give it a flip youll see spark also when turning the rotor to line it up while holding the mag in my hand I got one hell of a shock. I fear that it may just be my weakling status keeping me from my reward but Ive had others give a shot with no joy. Suspect that enough speed can not be generated to obtain sufficient spark. The magneto Im utilizing is a Vertex mag that slips into the distributor hole and it does not have an impulse coupler. There isnt enough room between the firewall and engine to mount an aircraft mag so the plans solution is out. I wonder if a stock automobile (Model-A) ignition system (battery, coil, condenser and such) might give a better slow speed spark at least to get it running long enough to loosen the tight engine so I could go back to the magneto. Any ideas, schemes or shots in the dark will be entertained. The only reward will be a yet another YouTube video of a Model-A Pietenpol running. Bill Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=365846#365846 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB" <steven.d.dortch(at)us.army.mil>
Date: Feb 07, 2012
Subject: Re: Model-A starting problem
This recent experience was with a 65 HP Continental but bear with me. I helped a buddy put brand new mags, harnesses, and plugs on his 65HP Aeronca Champ. We had plenty of help! We could not get the thing to fire at all. I spun the prop till I dropped. Everyone "troubleshot the thing." We had compression, Spark, and fuel but not at the right time. Everyone had an opinion. (New mags are bad, the rebuilt carb is flooding everything, your Mag switch is bad, the plugs are bad....) Finally on a cold day when no one was around we took a good look at everything. Too many hands had ended up with several wires going to wrong plugs. (I know that we originally put them to the correct plugs, but don't know when they were moved.) We pulled everything off and started from scratch by finding TDC. Then turned the prop to 30 degrees before TDC. We set the mags up according to the directions and and put them on. Ran the wires to all the right holes. Turned the prop while checking each cylinder for compression and when the plug sparked. Used the timing box and got both mags firing at exactly 30 degrees (this took very little adjustment.) This whole process took about 1 hour. I pulled the prop through 4 blades, he yelled "contact", I answered "HOT!!" and it fired on the first blade. The plane flies strong and starts very easy. Morals of the story: Don't get too much help!, Don't overthink the problem! Don't be afraid to back up and redo anything you are not sure of. Hope this helps. Blue Skies, Steve D ----- Original Message ----- From: BYD <billsayre(at)ymail.com> Date: Tuesday, February 7, 2012 21:48 Subject: Pietenpol-List: Model-A starting problem > > Excuse me folks, a fellow lover of the blue has got a problem.. > > Ive been trying to start my Model-A Pietenpol, which is stiff from fresh overhaul. Try as I might, I cant get even a puff or > pop out of it. Fuel, compression, timing and spark right? I can > guarantee fuel by pouring a small amount in the spark-plug hole > before propping (have also utilized starting fluid). Certainly has > compression (verified with a thumb over the spark-plug hole while > searching for top dead center). Timing is set at 28-degrees BTC > and if you lay a spark-plug on the head and give it a flip youll > see spark also when turning the rotor to line it up while > holding the mag in my hand I got one hell of a shock. I fear that > it may just be my weakling status keeping me from my reward but > Ive had others give a shot with no joy. Suspect that enough > speed can not be generated to obtain sufficient spark. > > The magneto Im utilizing is a Vertex mag that slips into the > distributor hole and it does not have an impulse coupler. There > isnt enough room between the firewall and engine to mount an > aircraft mag so the plans solution is out. I wonder if a stock > automobile (Model-A) ignition system (battery, coil, condenser and > such) might give a better slow speed spark at least to get it > running long enough to loosen the tight engine so I could go back > to the magneto. > > Any ideas, schemes or shots in the dark will be entertained. The > only reward will be a yet another YouTube video of a Model-A > Pietenpol running. > > Bill > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=365846#365846 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 07, 2012
From: Lawrence Williams <lnawms(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Brodhead 2011
Has anyone seen the results of the mass wt/bal conducted by W.W. at B'head last summer? Larry W. (THC) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 07, 2012
From: Lawrence Williams <lnawms(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Brodhead 2011
Has anyone seen the results of the mass wt/bal conducted by W.W. at B'head last summer? Larry W. (THC) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chris" <catdesigns(at)att.net>
Subject: Brodhead 2011
Date: Feb 08, 2012
Larry In the last couple of BPA newsletters W.W. published articles dealing with the weight and balance data. Not sure if he is finished or not. Chris Sacramento, Ca Westcoastpiet.com _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lawrence Williams Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2012 8:51 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead 2011 Has anyone seen the results of the mass wt/bal conducted by W.W. at B'head last summer? Larry W. (THC) ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Model-A starting problem
From: "899PM" <rockriverrifle(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Feb 08, 2012
Double check plug wires..... #1 cylinder is now at the BACK of the engine. -------- PAPA MIKE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=365864#365864 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Model-A starting problem
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 08, 2012
Bill, Mine was started from a fresh overhaul so that in itself is not a problem. I had the advantage of a Slick with the impulse, and never tried to start i t without it. Aren't a lot of the older Ford Piets just using non-impulse m ags? The only advise is the same as others. Start from scratch and check ev erything once again. Like Papa Mike said, make sure #1 is really #1, etc. Do you have a fuel primer? Just curious. It has GOT to be something basic. Dan Helsper Puryear, TN -----Original Message----- From: BYD <billsayre(at)ymail.com> Sent: Tue, Feb 7, 2012 9:36 pm Subject: Pietenpol-List: Model-A starting problem Excuse me folks, a fellow lover of the blue has got a problem=C3=A2=C2 =C2.. I=C3=A2=C2=C2=99ve been trying to start my Model-A Pietenpol, which is s tiff from fresh verhaul. Try as I might, I can=C3=A2=C2=C2=99t get even a puff or pop o ut of it. Fuel, ompression, timing and spark right? I can guarantee fuel by pouring a smal l mount in the spark-plug hole before propping (have also utilized starting luid). Certainly has compression (verified with a thumb over the spark-plu g ole while searching for top dead center). Timing is set at 28-degrees BTC and f you lay a spark-plug on the head and give it a flip you=C3=A2=C2=C2=99 ll see spark =C3=A2=C2=C2=93 lso when turning the rotor to line it up while holding the mag in my hand I got ne hell of a shock. I fear that it may just be my weakling status keeping me rom my reward but I=C3=A2=C2=C2=99ve had others give a shot with no joy. Suspect that nough speed can not be generated to obtain sufficient spark. The magneto I=C3=A2=C2=C2=99m utilizing is a Vertex mag that slips into the distributor hole nd it does not have an impulse coupler. There isn=C3=A2=C2=C2=99t enoug h room between the irewall and engine to mount an aircraft mag so the plans solution is out. I onder if a stock automobile (Model-A) ignition system (battery, coil, conde nser nd such) might give a better slow speed spark at least to get it running lo ng nough to loosen the tight engine so I could go back to the magneto. Any ideas, schemes or shots in the dark will be entertained. The only rewa rd ill be a yet another YouTube video of a Model-A Pietenpol running. Bill ead this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=365846#365846 -= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List - -======================== -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -======================== -= - List Contribution Web Site - -= Thank you for your generous support! -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution -======================== ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: weight and balance articles
Date: Feb 08, 2012
Oh Grand THC (aka Larry W) Kinda sounds like you don't get the newsletter anymore (evil man). There was a series of two or three articles by WW where he went into GREAT detail about his findings; tables of actual weights, landing gear location, engines, cg calculations, etc. They were really good. I'm sure you could get some back issues. Douwe ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: stubborn Ford
Date: Feb 08, 2012
Clearly not fuel. Clearly not mag or spark if you can see AND got a good shock. I'm leaning towards timing also. I'd say slow down, back up and retime that baby and try again. Go slow, it can only few one of a very few things. Let us know what you find and when we can see that video of it running! Douwe ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Model-A starting problem
From: "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Feb 08, 2012
Wow, you're mentioning all the right things. I rebuilt a little 4 cyl industrial engine on a bobcat not too long ago. While it started and ran, there was just "something" wrong. EVERYONE looked at it. I finally got a call from some guy via a bulletin board who figured it out by reading a post. After bucketloads of engine tune ups and wire replacements, I somehow merely put the plug wires on backwards, because the distributor ran the opposite to what I'm used to. Not sure it would have started by hand, so it's just another little thing to check. Lastly, you say you can see a spark at the plug next to the hole. Can you tell (might want to wait till dark to check, if it's a nice blue/white spark, or a yellow/orange one? That will help answer your question about "enough" spark. If that is the case, yes, a battery powered ignition system will definitely give you better spark independent of rotation speed. I also like to diagnose these problems in at least semi dark. You sometimes find sparks going to ground where they're not supposed to be, thusly weakening what is at the plug. Can see them easily in dark, but not at all in sunlight. Tools Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=365871#365871 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Model-A starting problem
From: Amsafetyc <amsafetyc(at)aol.com>
Date: Feb 08, 2012
Not to beat it to death however to make a plug fire you need a minimum of 65 psi compression so you'll have to get an accurate compression test. Not unless you have a calibrated thumb. Next verify that number 1 is at TDC on the compression stroke, both valves closed. Then verify plug wire to number 1 and rotation then verify firing order at mag, wire and plug once you have all that verified then prime carb. You should get something. General rule if you got fuel, air and spark and compression she should run not unless the spark arrives at the wrong time assuming your timing chain and marks are properly aligned and your mag drive is turning Just some suggestions time to go back to basics and verify the essentials John Sent from my iPhone On Feb 7, 2012, at 10:32 PM, "BYD" wrote: > > Excuse me folks, a fellow lover of the blue has got a problem.. > > Ive been trying to start my Model-A Pietenpol, which is stiff from fresh overhaul. Try as I might, I cant get even a puff or pop out of it. Fuel, compression, timing and spark right? I can guarantee fuel by pouring a small amount in the spark-plug hole before propping (have also utilized starting fluid). Certainly has compression (verified with a thumb over the spark-plug hole while searching for top dead center). Timing is set at 28-degrees BTC and if you lay a spark-plug on the head and give it a flip youll see spark also when turning the rotor to line it up while holding the mag in my hand I got one hell of a shock. I fear that it may just be my weakling status keeping me from my reward but Ive had others give a shot with no joy. Suspect that enough speed can not be generated to obtain sufficient spark. > > The magneto Im utilizing is a Vertex mag that slips into the distributor hole and it does not have an impulse coupler. There isnt enough room between the firewall and engine to mount an aircraft mag so the plans solution is out. I wonder if a stock automobile (Model-A) ignition system (battery, coil, condenser and such) might give a better slow speed spark at least to get it running long enough to loosen the tight engine so I could go back to the magneto. > > Any ideas, schemes or shots in the dark will be entertained. The only reward will be a yet another YouTube video of a Model-A Pietenpol running. > > Bill > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=365846#365846 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Pietenpol Aerial for sale
From: "blue213" <lmarion1(at)comcast.net>
Date: Feb 08, 2012
1700 gross, why so heavy? Besides a lighter engine what can be done to make one of these a LSA? -------- Blue Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=365877#365877 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 08, 2012
From: <r.r.hall(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Model-A starting problem
I would try adjusting your timing first. 28 BTDC may be too soon to get it started. That is why aircraft mags have impulse couplers, if they didn't th ey would be almost impossible to start and could have significant kickback. Rodney ---- Amsafetyc wrote: > > Not to beat it to death however to make a plug fire you need a minimum of 65 psi compression so you'll have to get an accurate compression test. Not unless you have a calibrated thumb. Next verify that number 1 is at TDC on the compression stroke, both valves closed. Then verify plug wire to numbe r 1 and rotation then verify firing order at mag, wire and plug once you ha ve all that verified then prime carb. You should get something. > > General rule if you got fuel, air and spark and compression she should ru n not unless the spark arrives at the wrong time assuming your timing chain and marks are properly aligned and your mag drive is turning > > Just some suggestions time to go back to basics and verify the essentials > > John > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Feb 7, 2012, at 10:32 PM, "BYD" wrote: > > > > > Excuse me folks, a fellow lover of the blue has got a problem=C3=A2 =82=AC=C2.. > > > > I=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2ve been trying to start my Model-A Pietenpol, which is stiff from fresh overhaul. Try as I might, I can=C3=A2=82=AC =84=A2t get even a puff or pop out of it. Fuel, compression, timing and spa rk right? I can guarantee fuel by pouring a small amount in the spark-plug hole before propping (have also utilized starting fluid). Certainly has com pression (verified with a thumb over the spark-plug hole while searching fo r top dead center). Timing is set at 28-degrees BTC and if you lay a spark- plug on the head and give it a flip you=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2ll see spark =C3=A2=82=AC=9C also when turning the rotor to line it up while h olding the mag in my hand I got one hell of a shock. I fear that it may jus t be my weakling status keeping me from my reward but I=C3=A2=82=AC =84=A2ve had others give a shot with no joy. Suspect that enough speed can not be generated to obtain sufficient spark. > > > > The magneto I=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2m utilizing is a Vertex mag that s lips into the distributor hole and it does not have an impulse coupler. The re isn=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2t enough room between the firewall and engine to mount an aircraft mag so the plans solution is out. I wonder if a stock automobile (Model-A) ignition system (battery, coil, condenser and such) m ight give a better slow speed spark at least to get it running long enough to loosen the tight engine so I could go back to the magneto. > > > > Any ideas, schemes or shots in the dark will be entertained. The only r eward will be a yet another YouTube video of a Model-A Pietenpol running. > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=365846#365846 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 08, 2012
From: <r.r.hall(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol Aerial for sale
As I understand it you are essentially correct. The builder can set the gross at whatever they feel is correct. In the case of this Aerial it was probably based on the low wing loading and higher power engine versus a stock pietenpol. To build it as a light sport though you would really have to watch the empty weight or you would not have enough payload to do anything. Maybe if you could make it a one place like the sky scout. It isn't just the heavier engine but the lower wings, metal fittings, wires and whatever else it needed as far as reinforcements. Rodney ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB" <steven.d.dortch(at)us.army.mil>
Date: Feb 08, 2012
Subject: Re: Model-A starting problem
Hate to chime in with something that you probably know. To find TDC we turned the prop to get the piston beginning compression stroke on the #1 cylinder. We installed a device that screws into the plug hole and intrudes to touch the piston when it comes up. when It touched the device. we set the prop dial (a compass like device) on Zero. then you turn the prop the other way until it touches again. Note the degrees on the dial. Divide that in half, take out the plug device and turn the prop to that degree. then zero the prop dial. That is TDC. Then turn it to the proper degrees before TDC (it was 30 for us) . Easy enough. Blue Skies, Steve D ----- Original Message ----- From: r.r.hall(at)cox.net Date: Wednesday, February 8, 2012 11:13 Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Model-A starting problem > > I would try adjusting your timing first. 28 BTDC may be too soon to > get it started. That is why aircraft mags have impulse couplers, if > they didn't they would be almost impossible to start and could have > significant kickback. > Rodney > ---- Amsafetyc < wrote: > > > > Not to beat it to death however to make a plug fire you need a minimum of 65 psi compression so you'll have to get an accurate compression test. Not unless you have a calibrated thumb. Next verify that number 1 is at TDC on the compression stroke, both valves closed. Then verify plug wire to number 1 and rotation then verify firing order at mag, wire and plug once you have all that verified then prime carb. You should get something. > > > > General rule if you got fuel, air and spark and compression she should run not unless the spark arrives at the wrong time assuming your timing chain and marks are properly aligned and your mag drive is turning > > > > Just some suggestions time to go back to basics and verify the essentials > > > > John > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > On Feb 7, 2012, at 10:32 PM, "BYD" < wrote: > > > > > > > > Excuse me folks, a fellow lover of the blue has got a problem.. > > > > > > Ive been trying to start my Model-A Pietenpol, which is stiff from fresh overhaul. Try as I might, I cant get even a puff or pop out of it. Fuel, compression, timing and spark right? I can guarantee fuel by pouring a small amount in the spark-plug hole before propping (have also utilized starting fluid). Certainly has compression (verified with a thumb over the spark-plug hole while searching for top dead center). Timing is set at 28-degrees BTC and if you lay a spark-plug on the head and give it a flip youll see spark also when turning the rotor to line it up while holding the mag in my hand I got one hell of a shock. I fear that it may just be my weakling status keeping me from my reward but Ive had others give a shot with no joy. Suspect that enough speed can not be generated to obtain sufficient spark. > > > > > > The magneto Im utilizing is a Vertex mag that slips into the distributor hole and it does not have an impulse coupler. There isnt enough room between the firewall and engine to mount an aircraft mag so the plans solution is out. I wonder if a stock automobile (Model-A) ignition system (battery, coil, condenser and such) might give a better slow speed spark at least to get it running long enough to loosen the tight engine so I could go back to the magneto. > > > > > > Any ideas, schemes or shots in the dark will be entertained. The only reward will be a yet another YouTube video of a Model-A Pietenpol running. > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > > > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=365846#365846 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > =========== > =========== > =========== > =========== > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: New Model A/Pietenpol pix
From: Ben Charvet <bencharvet(at)gmail.com>
Date: Feb 08, 2012
At this point I can have an intelligent conversation about Model A stuff eve n if I do fly behind a Continental. What a perfect Pietenpol accessory Ben Charvet Titusville Fl Sent from my iPhone

________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 08, 2012
From: Ben Charvet <bencharvet(at)gmail.com>
Subject: New Model A/Pietenpol pix
Reattached with the wheels down Ben ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Model-A starting problem
From: jim_markle(at)mindspring.com
Date: Feb 08, 2012
I had some real problems when I first set mine up (with the Wico mag)...180 degrees off....had spark etc.... ------Original Message------ From: BYD Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com ReplyTo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: Model-A starting problem Sent: Feb 7, 2012 10:32 PM Excuse me folks, a fellow lover of the blue has got a problem.. Ive been trying to start my Model-A Pietenpol, which is stiff from fresh overhaul. Try as I might, I cant get even a puff or pop out of it. Fuel, compression, timing and spark right? I can guarantee fuel by pouring a small amount in the spark-plug hole before propping (have also utilized starting fluid). Certainly has compression (verified with a thumb over the spark-plug hole while searching for top dead center). Timing is set at 28-degrees BTC and if you lay a spark-plug on the head and give it a flip youll see spark also when turning the rotor to line it up while holding the mag in my hand I got one hell of a shock. I fear that it may just be my weakling status keeping me from my reward but Ive had others give a shot with no joy. Suspect that enough speed can not be generated to obtain sufficient spark. The magneto Im utilizing is a Vertex mag that slips into the distributor hole and it does not have an impulse coupler. There isnt enough room between the firewall and engine to mount an aircraft mag so the plans solution is out. I wonder if a stock automobile (Model-A) ignition system (battery, coil, condenser and such) might give a better slow speed spark at least to get it running long enough to loosen the tight engine so I could go back to the magneto. Any ideas, schemes or shots in the dark will be entertained. The only reward will be a yet another YouTube video of a Model-A Pietenpol running. Bill Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=365846#365846 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC AEROSPACE CORP]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Date: Feb 08, 2012
Subject: test flight hours 40 or 25?
I found this information on the RV list and have given credit highlighted i n yellow to the appropriate authors. I hope this helps. Mike C. This is out of AC20-27E, CERTIFICATION AND OPERATION OF AMATEUR-BUILT AIRCR AFT: a. Amateur-built aircraft will initially be limited to operation within an assigned flight test area for a minimum of 25 hours when a type certificated (FAA-approved) engine/propelle r combination is installed, or 40 hours when a non-type certificated engine/propeller combination is installe d. I would take this to mean a engine/propellor combination that has been FAA certified for use on other aircraft (other than experimental). When you put an uncertified prop, IE a Catto, it becomes an uncertified combination, th us a 40 hour test period. Other comments? Bill Waters If your engine has a data plate from Lycoming on it and your prop is certif ied for that particular Lycoming model, then you will get 25 hours. Anythin g else gets you 40 hours. You will have to show the inspector the certifica tion sheet for the prop to prove to him it is a certified combination. Now, if you pull that Lycoming off your experimental and try to sell it, it cannot go into a certified airplane again unless it is completely remanufa ctured (not rebuilt) by a certified engine shop. It has to do with the fact that on a certified engine, the parts from the same engine stay with the e ngine until they get replaced. When it's remanufactured, it's a new engine again and it comes with a new logbook. On an experimental engine, parts fro m different engines can be mixed and matched as long as they are within tol erances for a rebuilt or a remanufacture. That's why Aero Sport Power engin es come with a new data plate that identify it as a "Aero Sport Power O-360 " instead of a Lycoming. However, the Feds do make mistakes. I got only 25 hours on my RV-6 because the inspector failed to notice that the engine was from Bart instead of fro m Lycoming. My Sensenich metal prop was certified for my O-320 so he only g ave me 25. For a simple, VFR airplane, 25 hours of testing is usually enough. But I al most prefer the regime of a 40 hour test period because you really need it to do flight testing properly on a more complicated airplane, just my $.02. __________________ Randy Pflanzer ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Doug Dever <chiefpepperhead(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Model-A starting problem
Date: Feb 08, 2012
Many airplanes in the 20s 30s and 40s did not have impulse mags. My dad had a Piper Super Cruiser that did not have impulse mags and=2C yes it was har d to start when hot. Doug Dever In beautiful Stow Ohio Date: Wed=2C 8 Feb 2012 11:47:00 -0500 From: r.r.hall(at)cox.net Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Model-A starting problem I would try adjusting your timing first. 28 BTDC may be too soon to get it started. That is why aircraft mags have impulse couplers=2C if they didn't they would be almost impossible to start and could have significant kickbac k. Rodney ---- Amsafetyc wrote: > > Not to beat it to death however to make a plug fire you need a minimum of 65 psi compression so you'll have to get an accurate compression test. Not unless you have a calibrated thumb. Next verify that number 1 is at TDC on the compression stroke=2C both valves closed. Then verify plug wire to num ber 1 and rotation then verify firing order at mag=2C wire and plug once yo u have all that verified then prime carb. You should get something. > > General rule if you got fuel=2C air and spark and compression she should run not unless the spark arrives at the wrong time assuming your timing cha in and marks are properly aligned and your mag drive is turning > > Just some suggestions time to go back to basics and verify the essentials > > John > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Feb 7=2C 2012=2C at 10:32 PM=2C "BYD" wrote: > > > > > Excuse me folks=2C a fellow lover of the blue has got a problem .. > > > > I=99ve been trying to start my Model-A Pietenpol=2C which is stif f from fresh overhaul. Try as I might=2C I can=99t get even a puff or pop out of it. Fuel=2C compression=2C timing and spark right? I can guaran tee fuel by pouring a small amount in the spark-plug hole before propping ( have also utilized starting fluid). Certainly has compression (verified wit h a thumb over the spark-plug hole while searching for top dead center). Ti ming is set at 28-degrees BTC and if you lay a spark-plug on the head and g ive it a flip you=99ll see spark =93 also when turning the roto r to line it up while holding the mag in my hand I got one hell of a shock. I fear that it may just be my weakling status keeping me from my reward bu t I=99ve had others give a shot with no joy. Suspect that enough spee d can not be generated to obtain sufficient spark. > > > > The magneto I=99m utilizing is a Vertex mag that slips into the d istributor hole and it does not have an impulse coupler. There isn=99 t enough room between the firewall and engine to mount an aircraft mag so t he plans solution is out. I wonder if a stock automobile (Model-A) ignition system (battery=2C coil=2C condenser and such) might give a better slow sp eed spark at least to get it running long enough to loosen the tight engine so I could go back to the magneto. > > > > Any ideas=2C schemes or shots in the dark will be entertained. The only reward will be a yet another YouTube video of a Model-A Pietenpol running. > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=365846#365846 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.matronics.com/contribution > 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Steel LG Lug Thickness
From: Mark Roberts <mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com>
Date: Feb 08, 2012
Thanks guys. Will do. I see what you all are talking about, and I appreciate the advice. Mark On Feb 7, 2012, at 11:14 AM, "skipgadd(at)earthlink.net" wrote: > > Kevin and Mark, Just for reference, Wag Aero uses .063 steel for the finger > straps in a similar reinforcement on their Cuby plans. The thicker steel is > harder to bend but easier to weld. > Skip > > >> [Original Message] >> From: kevinpurtee <kevin.purtee(at)us.army.mil> >> To: >> Date: 2/7/2012 9:36:59 AM >> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Steel LG Lug Thickness >> > >> >> Sorry, Mark, I don't remember. It was thin gauge that was laying in the > scrap bin. The control horn steel would probably be ok. It has to be thin > enough to form around the lugs and the top of the gear. Maybe get a couple > of 12x12 pieces of various sizes to be on the safe side? You'll end up > using whatever you get for something. >> >> -------- >> Kevin "Axel" Purtee >> NX899KP >> Austin/Georgetown, TX >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=365799#365799 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Steel LG Lug Thickness
From: "NikkoBelik" <apryldubosea(at)gmail.com>
Date: Feb 09, 2012
I never does that , will try too )) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=365951#365951 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 09, 2012
From: Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Model-A starting problem
Not sure if the issue has been resolved or not but....I had some problems starting my engine (with a Wico top mounted mag) until I realized....I had it installed 180 degrees off. Lifted it out of the distributor hole, moved the shaft around 180 degrees and it started right off.... Maybe your Vertex is the same.... Just a thought.... jm > > The magneto Im utilizing is a Vertex mag that slips into the distributor hole and it does not have an impulse coupler. There isnt enough room between the firewall and engine to mount an aircraft mag so the plans solution is out. I wonder if a stock automobile (Model-A) ignition system (battery, coil, condenser and such) might give a better slow speed spark at least to get it running long enough to loosen the tight engine so I could go back to the magneto. > > > > Any ideas, schemes or shots in the dark will be entertained. The only reward will be a yet another YouTube video of a Model-A Pietenpol running. > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=365846#365846 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.matronics.com/contribution > 3D============================================ tor?Pietenpol-List%22" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List 3D============================================ target=_blank>http://forums.matronics.com 3D============================================ bution%22" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution 3D============================================ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: impulse mags
Date: Feb 09, 2012
I flew 41CC behind the A65 with two different mags (left and right mags were different). Neither had impulse couplers and the older one was a Scintilla "lunchbox", probably as old as the engine. Still threw a great spark. The A75 on the airplane now has matched, brand-new Slicks and they both have impulse couplers. Honestly, I don't notice any difference in ease (or difficulty) of starting, probably because the compression is so low, the prop is so long, and I try to keep everything in a good state of tune. I can't comment on starting a Ford without impulse coupling, but my experience with my Continentals has been fine with or without. That plus the key to hand-propping these engines is finding the right starting routine and following it exactly, every time, and including whatever types of sprinkling pixie dust in the air or swinging a dead chicken make it work for you. There is also an importance to what you do when you shut the engine down, too. If you shut off the fuel valve as you taxi up to your hangar and then let the engine sputter and die as it runs out of fuel before you kill the mags, it will start differently than if you leave fuel on and shut it off with the mag switch, leaving fuel in the carb bowl. It will also start differently if after you turn off the mag switch and as the engine is spinning down you roll the throttle forward (open) instead of leaving it at the idle stop. I do not have a fuel primer; I pull it through a couple of blades with the throttle back at the stop so it will pull fuel through the idle circuit (Stromberg carb). It will usually start on the first or second blade after I go through the proper motions. Sprinkling the pixie dust works for me ;o) Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" Flying Squirrel N2069Z "Rocket" Medford, OR website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Clif Dawson" <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: impulse mags
Date: Feb 09, 2012
I remember reading somewhere that two impulse mags was a bad idea. I can't remember exactly why but I think it had something to do with some form of engine damage on startup. I thought it was one of the Skyranch articles I've got but it's not there. Both O-290's I've got have one impulse, on the left. Also the parts book and repair manual say the same. Clif > The A75 on the airplane now has matched, brand-new Slicks and they both > have impulse couplers. > Oscar Zuniga ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 10, 2012
From: Ben Charvet <bencharvet(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: impulse mags
My experience is very similar to Oscar's. My old Baby Ace had the twin Slicks, and was easy to start. Always used both mags, both impulse. My Piet has one impulse mag (Eisemann) and one non-impulse (Bendix). It will definitely kick back if you dont give it a real spirited pull. I usually start it on the Eisemann mag only. I don't have a primer either, and know about how many blades to pull it through to prime it. Usually I can hear the intake start to 'sound' wet. I also turn my fuel off as I taxi in. Pushing the throttle forward as you kill the mags keeps from loading up the engine with the equivalent of about 8 blades of prime. After sitting for an hour or so at a pancake breakfast and additional 2 blades of prime will usually start on the first blade. I'd really like to upgrade to slicks, but as Oscar also said, the mags I have are putting out great spark. Ben Charvet Mims, Fl On 2/9/2012 11:37 PM, Oscar Zuniga wrote: > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Oscar Zuniga > > > I flew 41CC behind the A65 with two different mags (left and right > > mags were different). Neither had impulse couplers and the older > > one was a Scintilla "lunchbox", probably as old as the engine. > > Still threw a great spark. > > > The A75 on the airplane now has matched, brand-new Slicks and > > they both have impulse couplers. > > > Honestly, I don't notice any difference in ease (or difficulty) of > > starting, probably because the compression is so low, the prop is > > so long, and I try to keep everything in a good state of tune. I > > can't comment on starting a Ford without impulse coupling, but my > > experience with my Continentals has been fine with or without. > > > That plus the key to hand-propping these engines is finding the > > right starting routine and following it exactly, every time, and > > including whatever types of sprinkling pixie dust in the air or > > swinging a dead chicken make it work for you. There is also an > > importance to what you do when you shut the engine down, too. If > > you shut off the fuel valve as you taxi up to your hangar and then > > let the engine sputter and die as it runs out of fuel before you > > kill the mags, it will start differently than if you leave fuel on > > and shut it off with the mag switch, leaving fuel in the > > carb bowl. It will also start differently if after you turn off > > the mag switch and as the engine is spinning down you roll the > > throttle forward (open) instead of leaving it at the idle stop. > > I do not have a fuel primer; I pull it through a couple of blades > > with the throttle back at the stop so it will pull fuel through > > the idle circuit (Stromberg carb). It will usually start on the > > first or second blade after I go through the proper motions. > > > Sprinkling the pixie dust works for me ;o) > > > Oscar Zuniga > Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" > Flying Squirrel N2069Z "Rocket" > Medford, OR > website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > > -- Ben Charvet, PharmD Staff Pharmacist Parrish Medical center ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: New Model A/Pietenpol pix
From: "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Feb 10, 2012
Thinkin' 'bout puttin' the Continental in the Ford? Think it'll cool alright? Seriously, need a cool oversized warbird style towbar to use your new accessory to move the Piet into and out of the hangar! Ok, maybe that's not so serious either... My dad is finishing up a Model A restoration, would be cool to get a pic like that. Tools dna Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=366031#366031 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 10, 2012
Subject: Re: impulse mags
From: BRETT PHILLIPS <bphillip(at)shentel.net>
My experience with a non-impulse equipped Model A is similar to Ben's. As long as you snap it through like you mean it the engine will start fine, even when timed at 30 deg. BTDC with a 6:1 head. With a long prop, it helps to keep your hands a little closer to the center than you ordinarily might. This makes it pull a little harder, but increases rpm for the same hand speed. Brett Phillips NX311GP Strasburg, VA ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: impulse mags
From: "899PM" <rockriverrifle(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Feb 10, 2012
One important difference to remember in this whole discussion is that the head mounted mag is turning at cam speed whereas the crank mounted mag will be much easier to coax a good spark out of. -------- PAPA MIKE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=366034#366034 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 10, 2012
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Fuel Tank and Engine
Attached are two pictures of my fuel tank in work. The tank is now finished and on it's way to Greg K., (noted in last news letter) for welding and pr essure testing. - I may also have an engine in hand by the end of the weekend! I'll report ba ck on that if it pans out. Michael Perez Karetaker Aero www.karetakeraero.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Fuel Tank and Engine
Date: Feb 10, 2012
Looks good. How much will it hold? Jack Phillips NX899JP Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael Perez Sent: Friday, February 10, 2012 4:01 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fuel Tank and Engine Attached are two pictures of my fuel tank in work. The tank is now finished and on it's way to Greg K., (noted in last news letter) for welding and pressure testing. I may also have an engine in hand by the end of the weekend! I'll report back on that if it pans out. Michael Perez Karetaker Aero www.karetakeraero.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Model-A starting problem
From: "BYD" <billsayre(at)ymail.com>
Date: Feb 10, 2012
UPDATE: First, Id like to thank my fellow lovers of the blue for sharing their experiences related to my current struggle. Some I have experienced before posting like using the spark-plug at the front of the plane (rear of the engine) as #1 the first time I was setting up the ignition to discovering plug wires 3 and 4 swapped while checking the plugs to see if they were wet (I blame that goofy firing order). I dont believe to be 180-degrees off since the rotor is pointing at the #1 contact inside the cap when the engine is at top dead center. To be clear I use the following procedure to set the timing, which I have used on regular aircraft engines and have reviewed with an IA that I trust: With the #1 plug removed (usually all of them and yes, #1 is the rear one on a Piet) I move the propeller with my thumb on the #1 spark-plug hole until I feel the compression poofing on my thumb. Then with a popsicle stick (the piston isnt directly under the spark-plug hole), I rock the propeller back and forth until I can feel that the piston is all the way up and between the connecting rod rocking on the crank I declare this position top dead center (TDC). Next, I turn the blade backwards watching a protractor with a pendulum pointing to a scale of degrees until it is indicating the amount of advance I want. At this point, I connect a buzz-box to the magneto and rotate the base until the light and buzzer just come on where I set the locking screw to hold the base at that position. I have come to learn that 30-degrees is the maximum advance to be shooting for and because my Vertex magneto has 12-degrees advance built in (between 700 and 1000 engine RPMs) the maximum I should be setting my static advance is 18-degrees. I have received suggestions from that range clear down to 0-degrees to see if I can at least get a pop. I also was looking at dyno reports from Synders website and another source and noticed they listed 0-degrees static and 28-degrees maximum advance as the normal setup for running their tests. I have been to the airport and set the static advance at 5-degrees following the procedure above but the weather here is rainy, and my trusted assistant is off goofing around in the snow up in the mountains. I dont wish to prop it alone on a wet ramp so I wait for the situation to improve. Stand by, film at 11. Bill Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=366053#366053 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 10, 2012
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Fuel Tank and Engine
I believe it to be close in size to Mike C's. His holds around 16-17 gal.(? )- Once I get it back I'll fill it up and get a better idea. Michael Perez Karetaker Aero www.karetakeraero.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fuel Tank and Engine
From: "Kyle85" <boschkyle(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Feb 11, 2012
Hey, that looks like a nice design, I see that you have angled the bottom of the tank, is this to facilitate leg room for the passenger? This is kinda what I was thinking of doing(when I get that far). I do not think I want to put in a tank in the wing center section at all. I do think that running the A-65 with the long fuse and a tank configuration as thus will be a possible configuration whilst keeping the cabanes vertical? Any words of wisdom on this? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=366069#366069 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 11, 2012
Subject: Re: Fuel Tank and Engine
From: "bradandlinda tds.net" <bradandlinda(at)tds.net>
We put a 12 gal. J-3 tank in the fuselage. Its easier to fill than a wing tank. We also put a 12" x 12" access door on the top of the center section that gives lots of storage space between the spars for tie downs and camping gear etc. The tank location also gave us a small storage area ahead of the tank for a small battery, oil cans and rags. It's amazing how much we can get into the center section. Brad Williams NX29NX On Sat, Feb 11, 2012 at 8:29 AM, Kyle85 wrote: > > Hey, that looks like a nice design, I see that you have angled the bottom > of the tank, is this to facilitate leg room for the passenger? This is > kinda what I was thinking of doing(when I get that far). I do not think I > want to put in a tank in the wing center section at all. I do think that > running the A-65 with the long fuse and a tank configuration as thus will > be a possible configuration whilst keeping the cabanes vertical? Any words > of wisdom on this? > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=366069#366069 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 11, 2012
From: Ben Charvet <bencharvet(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Fuel Tank and Engine
I have the setup you describe and ended up with my cabanes tilted back4 inches. Remember, it doesn't matter if the fuel is in front of the CG, you have to do your W/B with an empty tank. I extended my motor mounts 1.5 inches forward from the plans, but I guess I could have gone a bit further. I kinda like the way the tilted cabanes look. Like it makes it LOOK faster, even if it isn't. Ben On 2/11/2012 11:39 AM, bradandlinda tds.net wrote: > We put a 12 gal. J-3 tank in the fuselage. Its easier to fill than a > wing tank. We also put a 12" x 12" access door on the top of the > center section that gives lots of storage space between the spars for > tie downs and camping gear etc. The tank location also gave us a > small storage area ahead of the tank for a small battery, oil cans and > rags. It's amazing how much we can get into the center section. Brad > Williams NX29NX > > On Sat, Feb 11, 2012 at 8:29 AM, Kyle85 > wrote: > > > > > Hey, that looks like a nice design, I see that you have angled the > bottom of the tank, is this to facilitate leg room for the > passenger? This is kinda what I was thinking of doing(when I get > that far). I do not think I want to put in a tank in the wing > center section at all. I do think that running the A-65 with the > long fuse and a tank configuration as thus will be a possible > configuration whilst keeping the cabanes vertical? Any words of > wisdom on this? > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=366069#366069 > > > ========== > st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > ========== > http://forums.matronics.com > ========== > le, List Admin. > ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > ========== > > > * > > > * -- Ben Charvet, PharmD Staff Pharmacist Parrish Medical center ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fuel Tank and Engine
From: "Kyle85" <boschkyle(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Feb 11, 2012
Yes, you are correct. I guess after working on Blackhawks which has the fuel cells aft of the CG the book tells you either full bags or empty bags...not in the middle during W&B. Definitely would want to err on the side of caution when it comes to developing an aft CG. So I will look into a longer motor mount as you mentioned. On a side note...I have heard that making the nose too long will make a slip recovery a bit difficult if not impossible under some circumstances. I wonder how far forward the engine could be mounted without making a slip recovery difficult at low/landing speeds. -------- Airspeed, altitude or brains: Two are always needed to successfully complete the flight. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=366085#366085 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 11, 2012
Subject: Exhaust stud hole
From: Andrew Eldredge <andrew.eldredge(at)gmail.com>
So there I was, with grand designs of perhaps firing up the a-65 for the first time in a few years, putting on the exhaust manifold with some new, not brass studs, when it became clear that one of the studs had the coarse threads sticking out. Thinking I had a double-coarse stud, I went ahead and pulled it out of the cylinder head, realizing, to my horror, that it was not a double-coarse thread, but a fine-coarse thread that had been installed upside-down, and had taken a bit of the head with it on the way out. so.... Is there a helicoil-type repair for these a-65 heads? I hope the jug is not honked up. Thanks for the help... -- Andrew Eldredge Provo, UT ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Exhaust stud hole
From: Steve Ruse <steve(at)wotelectronics.com>
Date: Feb 11, 2012
I would guess that a heli coil would work, but they also make two oversize s tud sizes, available from Spruce. Maybe you could just tap the threads then use one of the oversize studs if not too much of the old thread is gone? I f not, I see no reason a helicoil wouldn't work, assuming it will withstand t he heat. Gibson Aviation in El Reno, OK cam tell you for sure. They specialize in sm all continentals, I'd give them a call. http://www.trade-a-plane.com/company-search?id=53220 Steve Ruse Norman, OK On Feb 11, 2012, at 4:25 PM, Andrew Eldredge wro te: > So there I was, with grand designs of perhaps firing up the a-65 for the f irst time in a few years, putting on the exhaust manifold with some new, not brass studs, when it became clear that one of the studs had the coarse thre ads sticking out. Thinking I had a double-coarse stud, I went ahead and pul led it out of the cylinder head, realizing, to my horror, that it was not a d ouble-coarse thread, but a fine-coarse thread that had been installed upside -down, and had taken a bit of the head with it on the way out. so.... > > Is there a helicoil-type repair for these a-65 heads? I hope the jug is n ot honked up. > > Thanks for the help... > > -- > Andrew Eldredge > Provo, UT > > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 11, 2012
Subject: Re: Fuel Tank and Engine
From: Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com>
Tilting the wing back is the most effective CG correction... On Sat, Feb 11, 2012 at 4:10 PM, Kyle85 wrote: > > Yes, you are correct. I guess after working on Blackhawks which has the > fuel cells aft of the CG the book tells you either full bags or empty > bags...not in the middle during W&B. Definitely would want to err on the > side of caution when it comes to developing an aft CG. So I will look into > a longer motor mount as you mentioned. On a side note...I have heard that > making the nose too long will make a slip recovery a bit difficult if not > impossible under some circumstances. I wonder how far forward the engine > could be mounted without making a slip recovery difficult at low/landing > speeds. > > -------- > Airspeed, altitude or brains: Two are always needed to successfully > complete the flight. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=366085#366085 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 11, 2012
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Fuel Tank and Engine
Kyle, myself and a friend of mine fabricated the tank so that it would sit on the instrument shelf at the rear and on the ash piece on front. (Relocat ed for this purpose.) A strap over the top will hold it in place.- The wi dth of the tank was kept "thin" to allow room for the engine mounts, bolts, nuts and the tools that need to get in there.- This room may also prove useful for various wires, cables, etc. for the engine controls. Some heavy rubber pieces will be wedged between the tank sides and the fuselage to kee p the tank from moving side to side. The angle is to help with leg room as well as to keep the fuel focused at t he outlet to the carb. The baffles will be stitch welded to help support an d strengthen the bottom of the tank and the side walls. It is .032" thick 5 052...it is quite light in weight. That is all the intell. I can provide at the moment as the tank is yet to be welded and returned. When I receive it , I will post some "completed" pictures. Michael Perez Karetaker Aero www.karetakeraero.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 11, 2012
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Engine(s) Aquired!
Crew, today has been a momentous day for myself and my plane build. Along w ith the type of weather I love, (snow) I was able to acquire two A65-8s!- Mike Cuy, whom I owe a lot, pretty much handled the entire transaction...f rom making the initial phone calls, setting up the time to meet, going alon g for tech. support, loading the engines, hauling said engines to my house and then unloading. All I did was negotiate and pay. - Attached are pictures of how I received them. Tomorrow I will start disasse mbling to see what is what.- One is a complete engine, the other is only missing the carb. and heat box. - I am so very blessed to have come across such a deal local to where I live. - - Mike Cuy...again...much appreciated sir! Michael Perez Karetaker Aero www.karetakeraero.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Engine(s) Aquired!
Date: Feb 11, 2012
So are you building the world's first twin-engined Pietenpol? Congratulations, Mike. The small Continentals are pretty neat engines, when you realize they were designed in 1937 and incorporate most of the tecnology still found in the most modern engines. Jack Phillips NX899JP Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael Perez Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2012 7:03 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Engine(s) Aquired! Crew, today has been a momentous day for myself and my plane build. Along with the type of weather I love, (snow) I was able to acquire two A65-8s! Mike Cuy, whom I owe a lot, pretty much handled the entire transaction...from making the initial phone calls, setting up the time to meet, going along for tech. support, loading the engines, hauling said engines to my house and then unloading. All I did was negotiate and pay. Attached are pictures of how I received them. Tomorrow I will start disassembling to see what is what. One is a complete engine, the other is only missing the carb. and heat box. I am so very blessed to have come across such a deal local to where I live. Mike Cuy...again...much appreciated sir! Michael Perez Karetaker Aero www.karetakeraero.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 11, 2012
Subject: Re: Engine(s) Aquired!
From: Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com>
You're blessed to know Mr. Michael Cuy. Do you have logs and history on either? Depending, you might consider leaving the best one together and seeing if she'll run...... On Sat, Feb 11, 2012 at 6:02 PM, Michael Perez wrote: > Crew, today has been a momentous day for myself and my plane build. Along > with the type of weather I love, (snow) I was able to acquire two A65-8s! > Mike Cuy, whom I owe a lot, pretty much handled the entire > transaction...from making the initial phone calls, setting up the time to > meet, going along for tech. support, loading the engines, hauling said > engines to my house and then unloading. All I did was negotiate and pay. > > Attached are pictures of how I received them. Tomorrow I will start > disassembling to see what is what. One is a complete engine, the other is > only missing the carb. and heat box. > > I am so very blessed to have come across such a deal local to where I > live. > > Mike Cuy...again...much appreciated sir! > > Michael Perez > Karetaker Aero > www.karetakeraero.com > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 11, 2012
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Engine(s) Aquired!
Thanks Jack...HA! Yes, Maybe one on each wing or perhaps I can make some ty pe of gear unit for one to make it a pusher! - Ryan, no logs, no papers, nothing. The gentleman acquired, (bought?) these engines about three years ago from some type of estate sale. They have been sitting in his garage/shed ever since.- The tapered crank engine will no t rotate by hand, the flanged crank engine turns quite easily.- Still, I will be taking both apart and seeing what I have to work with. Michael Perez Karetaker Aero www.karetakeraero.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 11, 2012
Subject: Re: Engine(s) Aquired!
From: Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com>
Fair enough, favor the flanged, let me know when you need Jay Anderson's number On Sat, Feb 11, 2012 at 8:32 PM, Michael Perez wrote: > Thanks Jack...HA! Yes, Maybe one on each wing or perhaps I can make some > type of gear unit for one to make it a pusher! > > Ryan, no logs, no papers, nothing. The gentleman acquired, (bought?) these > engines about three years ago from some type of estate sale. They have been > sitting in his garage/shed ever since. The tapered crank engine will not > rotate by hand, the flanged crank engine turns quite easily. Still, I will > be taking both apart and seeing what I have to work with. > > > Michael Perez > Karetaker Aero > www.karetakeraero.com > > * > > > * > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC AEROSPACE CORP]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Date: Feb 11, 2012
Subject: Engine(s) Acquired!
I second the motion Mike, congratulations!!! I was fortunate enough to happen to hear that this gent had these engines but had no idea if they were for sale or what condition they were in but in the past week Mike and I talked with the owner and it turned out they were for sale and we went and got them in a good old fashioned snow storm this morning. Mike's kids sled worked GREAT in pulling the engines from his driveway around back to his shop in the snow---otherwise we would have had to hand-carry each of them (ground too soft to use a dolly) a good distance. Was glad to help out and everything fell into place nicely. Told my B-24 WWII Vet friend Bill about the engines and he wants to come see them once they are dissasembled. (he knows engines like Hills Bros. knows coffee). I've got my cylinder head wrenches and valve spring compressor in the car and will drop off at Mike's after church Sunday because I know he's anxious to see the insides of these gems. So am I. (Make sure you lock your doors at night Mike!) Little by little, another Pietenpol is taking shape and being given life! Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Engine(s) Aquired!
From: "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca>
Date: Feb 11, 2012
Cool! Exciting day for you Michael. Actually, as strange as it sounds, if you did build a twin engined Piet, it would not be the first. Several years ago, someone did build a Piet with two engines (A-65s I think). The really strange part was that they were installed with one sitting above the other. From memory, I recall reading that it had two counter-rotating propellers (one in front of the other) - one direct driven, and the other belt driven. A very strange idea, with no good reason that I can think of to justify all the work necessary to achieve success, let alone all the extra weight. Bill C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=366116#366116 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 11, 2012
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Engine(s) Aquired!
Copy on Jay Anderson Ryan. - Mike, I will be home all day...stop over anytime! - Bill...maybe the guy with the twin engines was fixing a tail heavy issue. Michael Perez Karetaker Aero www.karetakeraero.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Clif Dawson" <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Engine(s) Aquired!
Date: Feb 12, 2012
Already done. One engine upside down on top of the other with a jackshaft between them. I have a pic here somewhere in my ancient ( pre Kitplanes ) mags but there are a LOT of them. Clif So are you building the world's first twin-engined Pietenpol? Jack Phillips NX899JP Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 12, 2012
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Engine(s) Aquired!
I agree with you completely Chuck. As I did with my GTO restoration...docum entation and organization!- When I am done here on the computer, I will s hovel snow off the drive, (I guess I should go to work Monday...) and then get started on the disassembly. Michael Perez Karetaker Aero www.karetakeraero.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: I need encouragement...Fying stories and pictures!
Date: Feb 12, 2012
Hey all! For those of us pounding through the daily grind of a build, it would be super encouraging and fun if you guys (and gals?) already flying could send in some cool flying stories and photographs. I for one always enjoy when someone shares a good flying story/adventure, and really appreciate everyone's photos, flying or otherwise. So, your act of charity to get me through this winter of waiting for ACS orders to arrive, and routing wires and rebuilding fuel tanks (for the fourth time.) can be a simple tax-deductible donation of a good story and or photo photo. Ready, set..GO!!! Douwe Ps. Thanks! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Greg Cardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: I need encouragement...Fying stories and pictures!

Date: Feb 12, 2012
Good suggestion Douwe! This is a link to EAA Chapter 25's newsletter with an article and photos from last years trip to Brodhead. http://www.eaa25.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/eaa251108.pdf Greg Cardinal Minneapolis ----- Original Message ----- From: Douwe Blumberg To: pietenpolgroup Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2012 9:09 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: I need encouragement...Fying stories and pictures! Hey all! For those of us pounding through the daily grind of a build, it would be super encouraging and fun if you guys (and gals?) already flying could send in some cool flying stories and photographs. I for one always enjoy when someone shares a good flying story/adventure, and really appreciate everyone's photos, flying or otherwise. So, your act of charity to get me through this winter of waiting for ACS orders to arrive, and routing wires and rebuilding fuel tanks (for the fourth time.) can be a simple tax-deductible donation of a good story and or photo photo. Ready, set..GO!!! Douwe Ps. Thanks! ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Engine(s) Aquired!
From: "BYD" <billsayre(at)ymail.com>
Date: Feb 12, 2012
Bill Church wrote: > Cool! Exciting day for you Michael. > > Actually, as strange as it sounds, if you did build a twin engined Piet, it would not be the first. Several years ago, someone did build a Piet with two engines (A-65s I think). The really strange part was that they were installed with one sitting above the other. From memory, I recall reading that it had two counter-rotating propellers (one in front of the other) - one direct driven, and the other belt driven. A very strange idea, with no good reason that I can think of to justify all the work necessary to achieve success, let alone all the extra weight. > > Bill C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=366138#366138 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/piet_two_conts_102.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Exhaust stud hole
Date: Feb 12, 2012
Andrew=3B I have helicoiled two of the stud holes on my A65. I bought the kit on eBay for just a couple of bucks (drill bit=2C helicoil tool=2C a handful of helicoils=2C wooden dowel). After my heart sank when the first one spun in the head=2C my A&P calmed me down by loaning me his helicoil set and it turned out nice. So when another one spun (I was replacing my mild steel stacks with stainless ones)=2C I was ready for the job. Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" Flying Squirrel N2069Z "Rocket" Medford=2C OR website at http://www.flysquirrel.net/rogueairparts.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Fuel Tank and Engine
Date: Feb 12, 2012
Ben wrote- >I have the setup you describe and ended up with my cabanes tilted back 4 inches. >I extended my motor mounts 1.5 inches forward from the plans=2C >but I guess I could have gone a bit further. Pretty much an exact description of how Scout is set up. Ben=2C it sounds like I could blindfold you=2C point you in the general direction of our two airplanes=2C and you could start up and fly either one without knowing which one it was. Oh=2C but please remove the blindfold before you try to prop-start it =3Bo) Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" Flying Squirrel N2069Z "Rocket" Medford=2C OR website at http://www.flysquirrel.net/rogueairparts ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 12, 2012
From: shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Engine(s) Aquired!
I met one of the past owners of that airplane.- I forgot his name, but he had a luscombe just north of ORD accross the WI state line.- I flew up t o do a pre buy on the Luscombe, and got to talking airplanes.- The twin e ngine piet had since been converted to single engine.- I also have a pict ure of the twin eng setup in an old Air Progress magizine from the 60's.- If I can find it I will scan and post the article. - Shad --- On Sat, 2/11/12, Bill Church wrote: From: Bill Church <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Engine(s) Aquired! Date: Saturday, February 11, 2012, 11:30 PM > Cool! Exciting day for you Michael. Actually, as strange as it sounds, if you did build a twin engined Piet, it would not be the first. Several years ago, someone did build a Piet with t wo engines (A-65s I think). The really strange part was that they were inst alled with one sitting above the other. From memory, I recall reading that it had two counter-rotating propellers (one in front of the other) - one di rect driven, and the other belt driven. A very strange idea, with no good r eason that I can think of to justify all the work necessary to achieve succ ess, let alone all the extra weight. Bill C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=366116#366116 le, List Admin. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 13, 2012
From: John Franklin <jbfjr(at)peoplepc.com>
Subject: Somewhat OT - Private Airfields
Does anyone on the Piet list have some knowledge or experience with formal airport procedures and how they relate to liability insurance? Is it preferable to have formal procedures, or are they not necessary? I would appreciate any comments from anyone who has had to deal with this issue. John Franklin Prairie Aire 4TA0 Needville, TX ________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 13, 2012
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Engine 1 Appart
I was able to get the flanged crank engine apart yesterday. It all came apa rt quite nicely. Today I will start on engine 2. - Michael Perez Karetaker Aero www.karetakeraero.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: for you guys who smoke 'em
Date: Feb 13, 2012
I'm rigging up my smoke system and wonder if you smokers out there (and you know who you are.) can tell me how you connected your oil tubes to the exhaust pipes? I'm trying to figure out what size orifice I need, and what type of tubing withstands the heat well as it connects to the hot pipes and just general detail stuff like that. Thanks in advance! Douwe ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 13, 2012
From: airlion <airlion(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Somewhat OT - Private Airfields
John ,could you be a little more explicit in your question? Gardiner --- On Mon, 2/13/12, John Franklin wrote: > From: John Franklin <jbfjr(at)peoplepc.com> > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Somewhat OT - Private Airfields > To: "Piet_List" > Date: Monday, February 13, 2012, 10:14 AM > --> Pietenpol-List message posted > by: John Franklin > > Does anyone on the Piet list have some knowledge or > experience with formal airport procedures and how they > relate to liability insurance? Is it preferable to > have formal procedures, or are they not necessary? I > would appreciate any comments from anyone who has had to > deal with this issue. > > John Franklin > Prairie Aire 4TA0 > Needville, TX > > ________________________________________ > > Email Forum - > - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - > List Contribution Web Site - > -Matt > Dralle, List Admin. > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 13, 2012
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Engine 1 Appart
Yeah John, nature does most of it, I do the rest! Michael Perez Karetaker Aero www.karetakeraero.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 13, 2012
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Engine Accessories, Manuals Needed
Crew, Here are some accessories I have from both engines. What I need now a re the overhaul manuals if available. - NAS3B carb. - Pair of Case magnetos (J.I. Case?) No numbers yet found - Pair of Eisemann AM-4 - Any help, advise, links/source for manuals, etc. greatly appreciated. Michael Perez Karetaker Aero www.karetakeraero.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 13, 2012
From: John Franklin <jbfjr(at)peoplepc.com>
Subject: Re: Somewhat OT - Private Airfields
Hi Gardiner, At our rather small private airfield we are starting to organize and maybe have a fly-in. We have an owner's group and we have insurance but we don't have written airport procedures such as frequency, traffic pattern, taxiing and parking details, etc. The kind of stuff you might see on AirNav.com. We're wondering if we should require anyone who wants to fly into our field to have signed a document that acknowledges that they have read and understand the procedures before they fly in. Obviously this is for liability purposes and I was wondering if anyone on the list has experience with this matter. Snooping around the web I have seen private airfields that have written procedures and some have a website where you can read the procedures and then send an email stating you have read and will follow them. Thanks, John F. -----Original Message----- >From: airlion <airlion(at)bellsouth.net> >Sent: Feb 13, 2012 9:34 AM >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Somewhat OT - Private Airfields > > >John ,could you be a little more explicit in your question? Gardiner > >--- On Mon, 2/13/12, John Franklin wrote: > >> From: John Franklin <jbfjr(at)peoplepc.com> >> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Somewhat OT - Private Airfields >> To: "Piet_List" >> Date: Monday, February 13, 2012, 10:14 AM >> --> Pietenpol-List message posted >> by: John Franklin >> >> Does anyone on the Piet list have some knowledge or >> experience with formal airport procedures and how they >> relate to liability insurance? Is it preferable to >> have formal procedures, or are they not necessary? I >> would appreciate any comments from anyone who has had to >> deal with this issue. >> >> John Franklin >> Prairie Aire 4TA0 >> Needville, TX >> >> ________________________________________ >> >> Email Forum - >> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - >> List Contribution Web Site - >> -Matt >> Dralle, List Admin. >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: John Hofmann <jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc.com>
Subject: Re: Somewhat OT - Private Airfields
Date: Feb 13, 2012
John, I am the treasurer for the Midwest Antique Airplane Association. We put on our GrassRoots flyin every September in Brodhead, WI. I have purchased event insurance through AUA (Norma Joyce) at very reasonable rates for the past several years. It includes our flyin and a our monthly member meetings that are often held at an airport in Wisconsin or Northern Illinois. Norma can let you know what you need. -john- John Hofmann Vice-President, Information Technology The Rees Group, Inc. 2424 American Lane Madison, WI 53704 Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150 Fax: 608.443.2474 Email: jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc.com On Feb 13, 2012, at 11:06 AM, John Franklin wrote: > > Hi Gardiner, > > At our rather small private airfield we are starting to organize and maybe have a fly-in. We have an owner's group and we have insurance but we don't have written airport procedures such as frequency, traffic pattern, taxiing and parking details, etc. The kind of stuff you might see on AirNav.com. We're wondering if we should require anyone who wants to fly into our field to have signed a document that acknowledges that they have read and understand the procedures before they fly in. Obviously this is for liability purposes and I was wondering if anyone on the list has experience with this matter. Snooping around the web I have seen private airfields that have written procedures and some have a website where you can read the procedures and then send an email stating you have read and will follow them. > > Thanks, > John F. > > > -----Original Message----- >> From: airlion <airlion(at)bellsouth.net> >> Sent: Feb 13, 2012 9:34 AM >> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Somewhat OT - Private Airfields >> >> >> John ,could you be a little more explicit in your question? Gardiner >> >> --- On Mon, 2/13/12, John Franklin wrote: >> >>> From: John Franklin <jbfjr(at)peoplepc.com> >>> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Somewhat OT - Private Airfields >>> To: "Piet_List" >>> Date: Monday, February 13, 2012, 10:14 AM >>> --> Pietenpol-List message posted >>> by: John Franklin >>> >>> Does anyone on the Piet list have some knowledge or >>> experience with formal airport procedures and how they >>> relate to liability insurance? Is it preferable to >>> have formal procedures, or are they not necessary? I >>> would appreciate any comments from anyone who has had to >>> deal with this issue. >>> >>> John Franklin >>> Prairie Aire 4TA0 >>> Needville, TX >>> >>> ________________________________________ >>> >>> Email Forum - >>> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - >>> List Contribution Web Site - >>> -Matt >>> Dralle, List Admin. >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________________ > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 13, 2012
Subject: Re: Somewhat OT - Private Airfields
From: Andrew Eldredge <andrew.eldredge(at)gmail.com>
If you have non-aviators at the field, make sure you have a mechanism for educating them about the runway environment, maybe even nasty-grams for repeat offenders. Warn any potential users about the potential for negligence causing injury, loss or death to them. If you have them waive their rights, encourage them to keep a copy, perhaps with the negligence clause bold and highlighted so that they don't bother hiring an attorney should one of the protected parties do something stupid. http://www.ntsb.gov/aviationquery/brief.aspx?ev_id 080207X00156&key=1 I think "crunched" would be a more accurate description than "bent" but otherwise it's a good description of what happened. I should be back in the air soon, though. I need to order that helicoil. Andrew On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 10:06 AM, John Franklin wrote: > > Hi Gardiner, > > At our rather small private airfield we are starting to organize and maybe > have a fly-in. We have an owner's group and we have insurance but we don't > have written airport procedures such as frequency, traffic pattern, taxiing > and parking details, etc. The kind of stuff you might see on AirNav.com. > We're wondering if we should require anyone who wants to fly into our > field to have signed a document that acknowledges that they have read and > understand the procedures before they fly in. Obviously this is for > liability purposes and I was wondering if anyone on the list has experience > with this matter. Snooping around the web I have seen private airfields > that have written procedures and some have a website where you can read the > procedures and then send an email stating you have read and will follow > them. > > Thanks, > John F. > > > -----Original Message----- > >From: airlion <airlion(at)bellsouth.net> > >Sent: Feb 13, 2012 9:34 AM > >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Somewhat OT - Private Airfields > > > > > >John ,could you be a little more explicit in your question? Gardiner > > > >--- On Mon, 2/13/12, John Franklin wrote: > > > >> From: John Franklin <jbfjr(at)peoplepc.com> > >> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Somewhat OT - Private Airfields > >> To: "Piet_List" > >> Date: Monday, February 13, 2012, 10:14 AM > >> --> Pietenpol-List message posted > >> by: John Franklin > >> > >> Does anyone on the Piet list have some knowledge or > >> experience with formal airport procedures and how they > >> relate to liability insurance? Is it preferable to > >> have formal procedures, or are they not necessary? I > >> would appreciate any comments from anyone who has had to > >> deal with this issue. > >> > >> John Franklin > >> Prairie Aire 4TA0 > >> Needville, TX > >> > >> ________________________________________ > >> > >> Email Forum - > >> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - > >> List Contribution Web Site - > >> -Matt > >> Dralle, List Admin. > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________ > > -- Andrew Eldredge Provo, UT ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Making Spars
From: "899PM" <rockriverrifle(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Feb 13, 2012
Thought I would pass this along as it may help someone down the road. Nearly 15 years ago, I purchased (9) 4/4 x 6 x 16ft spar grade Sitka Spruce boards from McCormick Lumber. Three of the nine were adjacent cuts from the same tree! Grain is nearly perfectly vertical and does not runout more than in the full 16. Needless to say, I was a little worried about scrapping one of these beauties! After planing the spars to thickness this last weekend, I needed to establish a straight edge to then rip them to width. Three of the four had about 5/8 of cup along their 16 length. As you may already know, wrangling 16 boards for edging (jointing) is not a fun jobespecially having only a 4 jointer table. Being one to always try to minimize outside services, the following is how I overcame this issue. Starting with the boards laying on a flat 16 surface, I ran a tight string (20# fishing line) full length of the boards and raised up on blocks of wood at each end. I transferred the line established by the tight string to the face of the board using a sharp pencil and a square(just touching the string) in a dozen places along the length of the board. I then used a 5 straight edge clamped to the board at the proper setback distance to guide my router (with a straight roughing bit) to clean up a 4ft section at a time. Moving down in (3) more setups, I was able to route a perfectly straight face 16 long. Taking my time, I finished all (4) spars in about two hours. Final test was putting two boards edge to edge.not even 1/16 gap. -------- PAPA MIKE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=366211#366211 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Engine Accessories, Manuals Needed
From: "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca>
Date: Feb 13, 2012
Michael, This site has a lot of very useful manuals. Maybe not exactly what you're looking for, but probably helpful overall. http://www.aeronca.com/manuals/ Bill C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=366212#366212 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Engine Accessories, Manuals Needed
From: Dave Nielsen <sentuchows(at)aol.com>
Date: Feb 13, 2012
Mike, Google each one and you will get a lot of info back. I rebuilt my Cas e Mags and the Stromburg carb. If you want to get rid of the case mags I'd be interested. Oh!!!! by the way look up antique mags on Youtube there is a wealt of info there. I should tell you that finding parts for the Case ma gs is close to impossible. Dave Dave Nielsen sentuchows(at)aol.com -----Original Message----- From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> Sent: Mon, Feb 13, 2012 11:21 am Subject: Pietenpol-List: Engine Accessories, Manuals Needed Crew, Here are some accessories I have from both engines. What I need now a re the overhaul manuals if available. NAS3B carb. Pair of Case magnetos (J.I. Case?) No numbers yet found Pair of Eisemann AM-4 Any help, advise, links/source for manuals, etc. greatly appreciated. Michael Perez Karetaker Aero www.karetakeraero.com -= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List - -======================== -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -======================== -= - List Contribution Web Site - -= Thank you for your generous support! -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution -======================== ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 13, 2012
Subject: Re: Engine Accessories, Manuals Needed
From: dmatt(at)frontiernet.net
One nice thing about Case mags is that there are no ADs on them. Dave Dave Nielsen wrote: Mike, Google each one and you will get a lot of info back. I rebuilt my Case Mags and the Stromburg carb. If you want to get rid of the case mags I'd be interested. Oh!!!! by the way look up antique mags on Youtube there is a wealt of info there. I should tell you that finding parts for the Case mags is close to impossible. Dave Dave Nielsen sentuchows(at)aol.com -----Original Message----- From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> Sent: Mon, Feb 13, 2012 11:21 am Subject: Pietenpol-List: Engine Accessories, Manuals Needed Crew, Here are some accessories I have from both engines. What I need now are the overhaul manuals if available. NAS3B carb. Pair of Case magnetos (J.I. Case?) No numbers yet found Pair of Eisemann AM-4 Any help, advise, links/source for manuals, etc. greatly appreciated. Michael Perez Karetaker Aero www.karetakeraero.com -= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List - -========================-= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -========================-= - List Contribution Web Site - -= Thank you for your generous support! -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution -======================= ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 13, 2012
From: airlion <airlion(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Somewhat OT - Private Airfields
Hi John,Thanks for replying. Last year at sun n fun my plane was destroyed due to a tornado and sun n fun is trying to get a settlement for the towing an cleanup for my 16sq ft area where my plane was tieddown. My feeling is that they should have insurance for that. It was an act of God. Gardiner --- On Mon, 2/13/12, John Franklin wrote: > From: John Franklin <jbfjr(at)peoplepc.com> > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Somewhat OT - Private Airfields > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Date: Monday, February 13, 2012, 12:06 PM > --> Pietenpol-List message posted > by: John Franklin > > Hi Gardiner, > > At our rather small private airfield we are starting to > organize and maybe have a fly-in. We have an owner's > group and we have insurance but we don't have written > airport procedures such as frequency, traffic pattern, > taxiing and parking details, etc. The kind of stuff > you might see on AirNav.com. We're wondering if we > should require anyone who wants to fly into our field to > have signed a document that acknowledges that they have read > and understand the procedures before they fly in. > Obviously this is for liability purposes and I was wondering > if anyone on the list has experience with this matter. > Snooping around the web I have seen private airfields that > have written procedures and some have a website where you > can read the procedures and then send an email stating you > have read and will follow them. > > Thanks, > John F. > > > -----Original Message----- > >From: airlion <airlion(at)bellsouth.net> > >Sent: Feb 13, 2012 9:34 AM > >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Somewhat OT - Private > Airfields > > > > > >John ,could you be a little more explicit in your > question? Gardiner > > > >--- On Mon, 2/13/12, John Franklin > wrote: > > > >> From: John Franklin <jbfjr(at)peoplepc.com> > >> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Somewhat OT - Private > Airfields > >> To: "Piet_List" > >> Date: Monday, February 13, 2012, 10:14 AM > >> --> Pietenpol-List message posted > >> by: John Franklin > >> > >> Does anyone on the Piet list have some knowledge > or > >> experience with formal airport procedures and how > they > >> relate to liability insurance? Is it preferable > to > >> have formal procedures, or are they not > necessary? I > >> would appreciate any comments from anyone who has > had to > >> deal with this issue. > >> > >> John Franklin > >> Prairie Aire 4TA0 > >> Needville, TX > >> > >> ________________________________________ > >> > >> Email Forum - > >> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - > >> List Contribution Web Site - > >> -Matt > >> Dralle, List Admin. > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________ > > > Email Forum - > - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - > List Contribution Web Site - > -Matt > Dralle, List Admin. > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 13, 2012
From: airlion <airlion(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Somewhat OT - Private Airfields
Where is your airfield? Also you might want to contact Tripple Tree Aerodrome in South Carolina on how they handle it. That is a great place to fly in. Cheers, Gardiner --- On Mon, 2/13/12, John Franklin wrote: > From: John Franklin <jbfjr(at)peoplepc.com> > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Somewhat OT - Private Airfields > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Date: Monday, February 13, 2012, 12:06 PM > --> Pietenpol-List message posted > by: John Franklin > > Hi Gardiner, > > At our rather small private airfield we are starting to > organize and maybe have a fly-in. We have an owner's > group and we have insurance but we don't have written > airport procedures such as frequency, traffic pattern, > taxiing and parking details, etc. The kind of stuff > you might see on AirNav.com. We're wondering if we > should require anyone who wants to fly into our field to > have signed a document that acknowledges that they have read > and understand the procedures before they fly in. > Obviously this is for liability purposes and I was wondering > if anyone on the list has experience with this matter. > Snooping around the web I have seen private airfields that > have written procedures and some have a website where you > can read the procedures and then send an email stating you > have read and will follow them. > > Thanks, > John F. > > > -----Original Message----- > >From: airlion <airlion(at)bellsouth.net> > >Sent: Feb 13, 2012 9:34 AM > >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Somewhat OT - Private > Airfields > > > > > >John ,could you be a little more explicit in your > question? Gardiner > > > >--- On Mon, 2/13/12, John Franklin > wrote: > > > >> From: John Franklin <jbfjr(at)peoplepc.com> > >> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Somewhat OT - Private > Airfields > >> To: "Piet_List" > >> Date: Monday, February 13, 2012, 10:14 AM > >> --> Pietenpol-List message posted > >> by: John Franklin > >> > >> Does anyone on the Piet list have some knowledge > or > >> experience with formal airport procedures and how > they > >> relate to liability insurance? Is it preferable > to > >> have formal procedures, or are they not > necessary? I > >> would appreciate any comments from anyone who has > had to > >> deal with this issue. > >> > >> John Franklin > >> Prairie Aire 4TA0 > >> Needville, TX > >> > >> ________________________________________ > >> > >> Email Forum - > >> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - > >> List Contribution Web Site - > >> -Matt > >> Dralle, List Admin. > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________ > > > Email Forum - > - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - > List Contribution Web Site - > -Matt > Dralle, List Admin. > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: for you guys who smoke 'em
Date: Feb 13, 2012
Douwe, It's been over a year since I did mine, and remembering that far back is asking a lot of my brain, but here's what I did as best I remember I made a steel bushing that I threaded for a 1/8" NPT pipe thread. I welded that to the exhaust manifold just below the exhaust port for the number 1 cylinder (my exhaust manifold is plain carbon steel, not stainless). Once the bushing was securely welded in place, I drilled a # 40 hole through the wall of the exhaust stack, centered on the hole in the bushing. Then I just used a steel AN816-2 flared tube nipple to screw into the pipe thread bushing on the exhaust stack. I flared a piece of 1/8" stainless steel tubing and attached it to the nipple with an AN818-2 steel coupling nut. I ran the stainless tubing back from the engine towards the firewall for about 12" than transitioned to a piece of rubber tubing that went to my pump. For the pump I used a cheap 12 volt windshield washer pump that I bought at an auto parts store. I figured if a # 40 hole wasn't big enough, I could always drill it larger, but it seems to do just fine. I would like to try Canopus 13 or Corvus Oil sometime, like the Big Dogs (including Mike Cuy) use, but at over $500 a barrel, I can't afford it. I just go to Automatic Transmission shops and beg for old used transmission fluid. They are happy to give it away and it works well, but doesn't have the staying power of Canopus Oil. If I ever go into the skywriting business, I'll have to buy the more expensive premium stuff. Here's a picture Bill Church took last summer at Brodhead: And here's a short video my wife shot when I made my first flight test with the new smoke system: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DTmKApOPyw Have fun! Jack Phillips NX899JP Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Douwe Blumberg Sent: Monday, February 13, 2012 10:24 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: for you guys who smoke 'em I'm rigging up my smoke system and wonder if you smokers out there (and you know who you are.) can tell me how you connected your oil tubes to the exhaust pipes? I'm trying to figure out what size orifice I need, and what type of tubing withstands the heat well as it connects to the hot pipes and just general detail stuff like that. Thanks in advance! Douwe ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC AEROSPACE CORP]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Date: Feb 13, 2012
Subject: for you guys who smoke 'em
Douwe, A long while ago I wrote this up and Chris Tracy was kind enough to post it on his Westcoast Piet web page. http://www.westcoastpiet.com/ Jack's idea or mine work equally as well, the only differences being that I have stainless (Aeronca Champ from Aircraft Spruce) pipes and used a stainless Swaglok fitting as described below. I ran my metal tubing thru the firewall (with a rubber grommet for chafe pr otection)then connected it to the poly tubing using a section of rubber hos e and hose clamps. Some oil distributor places will sell you 5 gallon pails of the smoke oil b ut you have to make lots of phone calls to find them in your area using Google. What you're looking for is basically mineral oil. Some call it cement mold release oil, some use it in bakery equipment and dentist drills. Mike C. [cid:image001.png(at)01CCEA5B.DE9A4F00] From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-lis t-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack Phillips Sent: Monday, February 13, 2012 2:05 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: for you guys who smoke 'em Douwe, It's been over a year since I did mine, and remembering that far back is as king a lot of my brain, but here's what I did as best I remember I made a steel bushing that I threaded for a 1/8" NPT pipe thread. I welde d that to the exhaust manifold just below the exhaust port for the number 1 cylinder (my exhaust manifold is plain carbon steel, not stainless). Once the bushing was securely welded in place, I drilled a # 40 hole through th e wall of the exhaust stack, centered on the hole in the bushing. Then I j ust used a steel AN816-2 flared tube nipple to screw into the pipe thread b ushing on the exhaust stack. I flared a piece of 1/8" stainless steel tubi ng and attached it to the nipple with an AN818-2 steel coupling nut. I ran the stainless tubing back from the engine towards the firewall for about 1 2" than transitioned to a piece of rubber tubing that went to my pump. For the pump I used a cheap 12 volt windshield washer pump that I bought at an auto parts store. I figured if a # 40 hole wasn't big enough, I could always drill it larger, but it seems to do just fine. I would like to try Canopus 13 or Corvus Oi l sometime, like the Big Dogs (including Mike Cuy) use, but at over $500 a barrel, I can't afford it. I just go to Automatic Transmission shops and b eg for old used transmission fluid. They are happy to give it away and it works well, but doesn't have the staying power of Canopus Oil. If I ever g o into the skywriting business, I'll have to buy the more expensive premium stuff. Here's a picture Bill Church took last summer at Brodhead: [cid:image002.jpg(at)01CCEA5B.DE9A4F00] And here's a short video my wife shot when I made my first flight test with the new smoke system: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DTmKApOPyw Have fun! Jack Phillips NX899JP Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia ________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-lis t-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Douwe Blumberg Sent: Monday, February 13, 2012 10:24 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: for you guys who smoke 'em I'm rigging up my smoke system and wonder if you smokers out there (and you know who you are...) can tell me how you connected your oil tubes to the e xhaust pipes? I'm trying to figure out what size orifice I need, and what type of tubing withstands the heat well as it connects to the hot pipes and just general d etail stuff like that. Thanks in advance! Douwe http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC AEROSPACE CORP]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Date: Feb 13, 2012
Subject: A perfect example of Aircraft Spruce & Specialty HIGHWAY
ROBBERY---smoke oil ripoff Wow...well it didn't take long to find out where NOT to buy smoke oil. If you want to pay TRIPLE the going rate for smoke oil just buy it from ACS & Specialty. They want $17 8.50 for a five gallon quantity of it. Go to ANY of the other distributors for this stuff if you want to pay a rea sonable price for it---and even then it is a little expensive but what oil or gasoline isn't these days. If you want it for $86 instead of $178.....go here: http://www.mdwaviatio n.com/v2/ I have a feeling you could find mineral oil at less cost but do your homewo rk and don't buy it from Jim Irwin and Aircraft Spruce. Aircraft Spruce has lots of good products at fair prices but you really hav e to watch them...they are really good at exercising capitalism and my hat is off to them for that but buyer be ve ry aware. Mike C. [cid:image003.jpg(at)01CCEA5C.BB4AE400] ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 13, 2012
From: "TOM STINEMETZE" <TOMS(at)mcpcity.com>
Subject: Re: I need encouragement...Fying stories and pictures!
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: I need encouragement...Fying stories and pictures!
From: "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Feb 13, 2012
Here's my story from a few months ago (links at end of post). Otherwise all I've got for ya is that it's worth it! I waited FAR too long and spent way more time than it would have taken me to build one, building and fixing OTHER things... big mistake. I'm fixing that now. I'm still flying every day I can. While I'll not get much sympathy from most of the crowd, it's darn cold up there when the ambient temp is in the high 30's to low 40's, but it's STILL worth it, even for a thin blooded southern type like myself. Flew around the last two days for about 30 minutes each day. Yesterday was especially cool, I found a birthday gift from a buddy 15 years ago, a 50's vintage German leather flying helmet. I threw that on, my Navy leather flying jacket (who knew it'd ever be used for what it was made for!), pulled her out of the hangar, pulled it through a half dozen times, threw the mags on, propped her and jumped in. Never turned on a radio, intercom, transponder, nothing... just went flying. Turns out, keeping her around 60 mph is the best when it's that cold out. Just the funnest thing ever. And it seems Piet types seem to enjoy their birds more than most. Pretty sure my plane has been out of the hangar more than any other plane based in 9A5. When I need a little pick me up, I go to youtube and watch Piet flying videos. There's quite a few really good ones. If they don't get you all motivated, you're probably building the wrong plane! Tools http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=84807&highlight http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=84904&highlight Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=366230#366230 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 13, 2012
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Making Spars
Nice job Mike. I am with you keeping "outside" services to a minimum. Every little thing you do yourself may save some money, but it also gains you unknown knowledge. (Good or bad!) Michael Perez Karetaker Aero www.karetakeraero.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chris" <catdesigns(at)att.net>
Subject: Horizontal StabilizerAttachment
Date: Feb 13, 2012
When installing the horizontal stabilizer there are two fittings on the rear and beneath the stabilizer. Two bolts are to pass through one fitting, through the fuselage and through the second fitting. Problem is the fuselage sides are not parallel in this area. I'm trying to figure out the best way to run the bolts through the two fittings. Do I add wood shims so the fittings lay flat or do I make wedge shaped washers for under the bolts? Other suggestions? Chris Sacramento, Ca Westcoastpiet.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack" <jack(at)textors.com>
Subject: Horizontal StabilizerAttachment
Date: Feb 14, 2012
Chris I used shims. When making the brackets pay attention to clearances, I remade a few times! See here http://textors.com/DSCN4190_800x600.jpg Jack Textor DSM NX1929T -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2012 12:16 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Horizontal StabilizerAttachment When installing the horizontal stabilizer there are two fittings on the rear and beneath the stabilizer. Two bolts are to pass through one fitting, through the fuselage and through the second fitting. Problem is the fuselage sides are not parallel in this area. I'm trying to figure out the best way to run the bolts through the two fittings. Do I add wood shims so the fittings lay flat or do I make wedge shaped washers for under the bolts? Other suggestions? Chris Sacramento, Ca Westcoastpiet.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Horizontal StabilizerAttachment
Date: Feb 14, 2012
I made wedge shaped washers for mine. Jack Phillips NX899JP Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2012 1:16 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Horizontal StabilizerAttachment When installing the horizontal stabilizer there are two fittings on the rear and beneath the stabilizer. Two bolts are to pass through one fitting, through the fuselage and through the second fitting. Problem is the fuselage sides are not parallel in this area. I'm trying to figure out the best way to run the bolts through the two fittings. Do I add wood shims so the fittings lay flat or do I make wedge shaped washers for under the bolts? Other suggestions? Chris Sacramento, Ca Westcoastpiet.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Gene Rambo <generambo(at)msn.com>
Subject: Horizontal StabilizerAttachment
Date: Feb 14, 2012
I don't think it really matters=2C the bolts are in shear=2C there is no re al reason that they can't be angled. Having said that=2C the amount it tak es to make the fuselage sides parallel is only the thickness of the plywood doubler. I trimmed the plywood=2C so that the sides were parallel=2C in t he area under the fittings. BYW=2C my plans show rivets there=2C not bolts . I used rivets=2C and with rivets it really does not matter if the sides are parallel. I chose to trim the plywood because with the fittings on an angle=2C it moved the bolt holes for the stabilizer aft a bit and made them not line up with the holes in the fitting on the vertical fin. Gene do not archive > From: catdesigns(at)att.net > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Horizontal StabilizerAttachment > Date: Mon=2C 13 Feb 2012 22:16:24 -0800 > > > When installing the horizontal stabilizer there are two fittings on the r ear > and beneath the stabilizer. Two bolts are to pass through one fitting=2C > through the fuselage and through the second fitting. Problem is the > fuselage sides are not parallel in this area. I'm trying to figure out t he > best way to run the bolts through the two fittings. Do I add wood shims s o > the fittings lay flat or do I make wedge shaped washers for under the bol ts? > Other suggestions? > > Chris > Sacramento=2C Ca > Westcoastpiet.com > > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Horizontal StabilizerAttachment
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 14, 2012
Should have used some sort of shims on mine, but sadly, did not. One of the small regrets and costs of "get-done-itis". A lesson for all who are still building. The parts that you rush will always be there to stare you in the face when you are done. It looks a little "off" but It'll never give way I 'm sure. Dan Helsper Puryear, TN -----Original Message----- From: Jack Phillips <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> Sent: Tue, Feb 14, 2012 6:25 am Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Horizontal StabilizerAttachment et> I made wedge shaped washers for mine. Jack Phillips X899JP mith Mountain Lake, Virginia -----Original Message----- rom: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris ent: Tuesday, February 14, 2012 1:16 AM o: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com ubject: Pietenpol-List: Horizontal StabilizerAttachment When installing the horizontal stabilizer there are two fittings on the rea r nd beneath the stabilizer. Two bolts are to pass through one fitting, hrough the fuselage and through the second fitting. Problem is the uselage sides are not parallel in this area. I'm trying to figure out the est way to run the bolts through the two fittings. Do I add wood shims so he fittings lay flat or do I make wedge shaped washers for under the bolts? ther suggestions? Chris acramento, Ca estcoastpiet.com -= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List - -======================== -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -======================== -= - List Contribution Web Site - -= Thank you for your generous support! -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution -======================== ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ralph Hurlbert" <ralphhsd(at)itctel.com>
Subject: magneto parts
Date: Feb 14, 2012
A couple years ago I found Eisemann mag parts from the California company with the full page ad in Trade-a-plane. All parts seemed to be available. Try an antique tractor magazine for a magneto repair man and you can probably find points, condenser, etc. for the Case magnetos. Case mags have a really hot spark for tractor use and I've been told the airplane mags are the same thing. Ralph in SD ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: thanks guys!
Date: Feb 14, 2012
Thanks for the flying stories and photos, they ARE encouraging. Also thanks for the smoke system details. Cleary been overthinking this one. Exhaust all done, fuel tank plumbed, moving to finishing up the wiring, linkages, firewall grommets, control cable brackets/supports. you know. all that FUN stuff!!! Just wanna fire her up soon to make sure I got everything hooked up right and get that final blast of enthusiasm going. I AM SO READY TO FLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Douwe ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 14, 2012
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Making Spars
Bill, Unknown Knowledge is like Unknown Unknowns. (It's a NASA thing) But judging from your last post, you are getting the idea. Michael Perez Karetaker Aero www.karetakeraero.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: thanks guys!
Date: Feb 14, 2012
The question is.will you have it at Brodhead this summer? We've all waited a loooong time to see this one. Jack Phillips NX899JP Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Douwe Blumberg Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2012 9:24 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: thanks guys! Thanks for the flying stories and photos, they ARE encouraging. Also thanks for the smoke system details. Cleary been overthinking this one. Exhaust all done, fuel tank plumbed, moving to finishing up the wiring, linkages, firewall grommets, control cable brackets/supports. you know. all that FUN stuff!!! Just wanna fire her up soon to make sure I got everything hooked up right and get that final blast of enthusiasm going. I AM SO READY TO FLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Douwe ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "C N Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net>
Subject: Re: Horizontal StabilizerAttachment
Date: Feb 14, 2012
Chris, I also used shims. I made some shims out of spruce and when I got them to where the surfaces were parallel and glued the shims to the fuselage sides. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris" <catdesigns(at)att.net> Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2012 1:16 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Horizontal StabilizerAttachment > > When installing the horizontal stabilizer there are two fittings on the > rear > and beneath the stabilizer. Two bolts are to pass through one fitting, > through the fuselage and through the second fitting. Problem is the > fuselage sides are not parallel in this area. I'm trying to figure out > the > best way to run the bolts through the two fittings. Do I add wood shims so > the fittings lay flat or do I make wedge shaped washers for under the > bolts? > Other suggestions? > > Chris > Sacramento, Ca > Westcoastpiet.com > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "C N Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net>
Subject: Re: Horizontal StabilizerAttachment
Date: Feb 14, 2012
#2 Chris, I also noticed on the plans in his book that Bernie calls for rivets rather than bolts on the top side of the stabilizer where the stabilizer is fastened to the vertical fin. I wondered why until I put everything together and found that the nuts on the bolts interfere with the vertical bolts going down through the fitting to the fitting on the lower side of the stabilizer. When I put the plane together for the inspection I'll use hardware store bolts and thin nuts and for the final time after covering, I'm going to use 3/16-inch rivets. C ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris" <catdesigns(at)att.net> Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2012 1:16 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Horizontal StabilizerAttachment > > When installing the horizontal stabilizer there are two fittings on the > rear > and beneath the stabilizer. Two bolts are to pass through one fitting, > through the fuselage and through the second fitting. Problem is the > fuselage sides are not parallel in this area. I'm trying to figure out > the > best way to run the bolts through the two fittings. Do I add wood shims so > the fittings lay flat or do I make wedge shaped washers for under the > bolts? > Other suggestions? > > Chris > Sacramento, Ca > Westcoastpiet.com > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Horizontal StabilizerAttachment
From: "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca>
Date: Feb 14, 2012
I know it's in the plans, and I know it's been done successfully in the past, and I know that's the way BHP did it... but using rivets in wood just doesn't give me a warm, fuzzy feeling. Bill C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=366283#366283 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 14, 2012
From: Jim Boyer <boyerjrb(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Horizontal StabilizerAttachment
HI Chris, I just made the L brackets a little longer so bolts from above would not interfere with the bolts below. I also had the bottom brackets sit flat against the fuselage side; then used my drill guide (Clif Dawson design I think) to drill hole through fuselage from left to right side (hole is very slightly oval) and just put the bolt through. You have to look really close to see it doesn't sit flat all around. >From all the responses I have read here I think I did it the easiest. Cheers, Jim B. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 14, 2012
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Engine 2 Pictures Thoughts?
Attached are some pictures of what I found yesterday while disassembling en gine #2. This engine had no carb. nor heat box and has a tapered shaft with hub. The hub was just laid in place...the nut was hand tight and the entir e assembly lifted right off.- There were no spark plugs installed and the spark plug holes had red plastic caps installed. The pictures show that it appears the engine had a partial overhaul done to it and then never ran since.- There was minimal oil in the cylinders...I did not clean anything prior to taking the pictures. The exhaust ports loo k clean and the valves, seats and guides seem to have been replaced. (?)- More dis-assembly and inspection to come.- Thoughts? Michael Perez =0AKaretaker Aero =0Awww.karetakeraero.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Making Spars
From: Matthew <matthew.vandervort(at)gmail.com>
Date: Feb 14, 2012
Isn't there a window pane of knowledge a philosopher came up with? What we know What we know we dont know and What we don't know we don't know Or maybe I'm just working to hard today... Sent from my iPhone On Feb 14, 2012, at 9:31 AM, Michael Perez wrote: > Bill, Unknown Knowledge is like Unknown Unknowns. (It's a NASA thing) > > But judging from your last post, you are getting the idea. > > Michael Perez > Karetaker Aero > www.karetakeraero.com > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 14, 2012
From: "TOM STINEMETZE" <TOMS(at)mcpcity.com>
Subject: Re: Horizontal StabilizerAttachment
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 14, 2012
From: "TOM STINEMETZE" <TOMS(at)mcpcity.com>
Subject: Re: Horizontal StabilizerAttachment
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 14, 2012
Subject: Re: Engine 2 Pictures Thoughts?
From: Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com>
Based on the black in the case and the other pics, looks like just a top, if that (and if done properly)... Ryan On Tue, Feb 14, 2012 at 12:56 PM, Michael Perez wrote: > Attached are some pictures of what I found yesterday while disassembling > engine #2. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Engine 2 Pictures Thoughts?
From: "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org>
Date: Feb 14, 2012
Hi Mike, Looks like someone did a field top overhaul on it. I can see that the cylinders are the old style with the bronze spark plug inserts and it also appears to have possible cracks that run from the spark plugs to the exhaust seats. You can see there is one from each spark plug hole. They could be serviceable. It would be worth having them inspected by a shop. Something you could do yourself is to put some spark plugs in the cylinders and pour some kerosene in them. If the cracks are big or the valves are not seated good you will see the leaks. Keep in mind that these little Cont engines will just keep running and running. Not everything needs to be brand new in them. There are serviceable limits in the overhaul manual. As long as your parts meet those, consider them good. BTW, My cylinders are also .015 over. Regards, -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=366303#366303 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Horizontal StabilizerAttachment
From: Hans Van Der Voort <hvandervoo(at)aol.com>
Date: Feb 14, 2012
3D=__Part17396FBE.1__=-- ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Engine 2 Pictures Thoughts?
From: "Jack(at)textors.com" <jack(at)textors.com>
Date: Feb 14, 2012
Scott, what is the reason for the notches on the piston tops? Jack Textor Sent from my iPad On Feb 14, 2012, at 2:40 PM, "AircamperN11MS" wrote: > > Hi Mike, > > Looks like someone did a field top overhaul on it. I can see that the cylinders are the old style with the bronze spark plug inserts and it also appears to have possible cracks that run from the spark plugs to the exhaust seats. You can see there is one from each spark plug hole. They could be serviceable. It would be worth having them inspected by a shop. Something you could do yourself is to put some spark plugs in the cylinders and pour some kerosene in them. If the cracks are big or the valves are not seated good you will see the leaks. Keep in mind that these little Cont engines will just keep running and running. Not everything needs to be brand new in them. There are serviceable limits in the overhaul manual. As long as your parts meet those, consider them good. > > > BTW, My cylinders are also .015 over. > > Regards, > > -------- > Scott Liefeld > Flying N11MS since March 1972 > Steel Tube > C-85-12 > Wire Wheels > Brodhead in 1996 > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=366303#366303 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 14, 2012
From: Ben Charvet <bencharvet(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Engine 2 Pictures Thoughts?
Somebody has done some work for you. When I rebuilt my A-65 I was dealing with parts from more than engine too. I bought a set of micrometers from e-bay and used that to find what was serviceable or what was the best part to have rebuilt. The attached link from the Fly-Baby site has a wealth of information about small continentals: http://www.bowersflybaby.com/tech/fenton.htm You really need to get or borrow a copy of the manual for the small continentals to get your specs. After you get all your parts cleaned, have some of your airport bum friends come over and help you sort out what you have. Just from what I've seen you have a much better start than I did. Ben Charvet 115 hrs on an A-65 I built myself On 2/14/2012 1:56 PM, Michael Perez wrote: > Attached are some pictures of what I found yesterday while > disassembling engine #2. This engine had no carb. nor heat box and has > a tapered shaft with hub. The hub was just laid in place...the nut was > hand tight and the entire assembly lifted right off. There were no > spark plugs installed and the spark plug holes had red plastic caps > installed. > > The pictures show that it appears the engine had a partial overhaul > done to it and then never ran since. There was minimal oil in the > cylinders...I did not clean anything prior to taking the pictures. The > exhaust ports look clean and the valves, seats and guides seem to have > been replaced. (?) More dis-assembly and inspection to come. > > Thoughts? > > Michael Perez > Karetaker Aero > www.karetakeraero.com > -- Ben Charvet, PharmD Staff Pharmacist Parrish Medical center ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: PDF of the Continental Overhaul Manual
From: "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com>
Date: Feb 14, 2012
Mike... your engines look really great. You really can't tell much though until you have mic'd everything. Here is a PDF of the Overhaul Manual in case you don't have it yet... Don Emch NX899DE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=366323#366323 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/a_65_overhaul_manual_193.pdf ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: motorcycle wheels
From: "skellytown flyer" <skellflyer1(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Feb 14, 2012
Are there any spoke motorcycle wheels that have large enough hubs to be machined to fit on 1 1/4" diameter axles? I'm fed up with trying to get the ancient old 6" wheel brakes I have to work- they're the old expander tube shoe and drum style and I think need more volume than the master cylinders I have can produce. and if I change anything at this point I'd much rather go with spoke wheels. yet I want to keep the Cub gear legs I have.and not alter them if possible.I have no problem with machining hubs for brass bushings, and mechanical drum brakes would be OK too if I found a set that could be altered to fit. Raymond Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=366324#366324 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gboothe5" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Subject: motorcycle wheels
Date: Feb 14, 2012
Raymond, I used Harley Sportster wheels from www.paughco.com, that had been modified to fit 1" bearings...that's the largest I could find. I stepped down the 1 1/2" axle with 2 steps, the final one being 1" solid, about 18" long. Good luck.... Gary from Cool -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of skellytown flyer Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2012 5:46 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: motorcycle wheels Are there any spoke motorcycle wheels that have large enough hubs to be machined to fit on 1 1/4" diameter axles? I'm fed up with trying to get the ancient old 6" wheel brakes I have to work- they're the old expander tube shoe and drum style and I think need more volume than the master cylinders I have can produce. and if I change anything at this point I'd much rather go with spoke wheels. yet I want to keep the Cub gear legs I have.and not alter them if possible.I have no problem with machining hubs for brass bushings, and mechanical drum brakes would be OK too if I found a set that could be altered to fit. Raymond Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=366324#366324 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Steve Ruse" <steve(at)wotelectronics.com>
Subject: Re: PDF of the Continental Overhaul Manual
Date: Feb 14, 2012
For anyone who needs it, below is a link to my collection of small Continental engine documents. Quite a bit of information here, I apologize for the file formatting being a little difficult: http://www.wotelectronics.com/airplane/Continental%20A-65/ Steve Ruse Norman, OK -------------------------------------------------- From: "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com> Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2012 7:42 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: PDF of the Continental Overhaul Manual > > Mike... your engines look really great. You really can't tell much though > until you have mic'd everything. Here is a PDF of the Overhaul Manual in > case you don't have it yet... > > Don Emch > NX899DE > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=366323#366323 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/a_65_overhaul_manual_193.pdf > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chris" <catdesigns(at)att.net>
Subject: Horizontal StabilizerAttachment
Date: Feb 14, 2012
Thank you all for the suggestions Chris Sacramento, Ca Westcoastpiet.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Engine 2 Pictures Thoughts?
From: "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org>
Date: Feb 15, 2012
I only recall having a single notch on my pistons. Mine were identifiers for proper piston alignment. I have a C-85-12F. Mike's pistons have two and I can only assume that his can be installed either way. I would need to check the books for that one to be sure and mine are currently loaned out. Mike, Another place prone to cracking is the exhaust valve guide bushing boss. You would see if it were cracked by looking in the exhaust port just like the pic you have posted. If it were cracked, it would be parallel to the exhaust guide. They can be large and obvious. Yours looks good. Keep plugging along and soon you will have a great engine to fly behind. I rebuilt mine back in 1997 after I was having some stuck exhaust valve issues. I did a bunch of horse trading and it ended up costing $1300 to rebuild. My biggest savings was when I sent in my cam and lifters to have them reground. I sent in two sets and was hoping to get one good set out of them. They told me both sets were good so I asked them if they wanted to buy the second set from me and a deal was made. In the end they sent me one set freshly yellow tagged and a check for $35. That was a good day. -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=366343#366343 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/mojave_128.jpeg ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: RE-PIET's completion date
Date: Feb 15, 2012
Hey Jack, You and me both man! I've been waiting a long time to see this one!! I'm hoping/planning/striving to get her done early in the summer. Most what is left is fiddly stuff, but that takes one guy a long time to do, especially when work stops while you wait for a cotter pin from ACS (kidding, but you know what I mean). Seriously doubt Brodhead this year, but it is a remote possibility. We'd have to see how many bugs need working out and how comfortable I feel doing a cross country that soon. Thanks for asking, and for all your advise over the years. Douwe ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Naked Piet pics 2000 vintage
From: "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org>
Date: Feb 15, 2012
Hi Guys, Here are some pics from my rebuild back in the year 2000. This coming March 31st will be the 40th anniversary of its first flight. I don't know how many I can post or if there will be any trouble viewing them. So lets give this a try. I can post some more if this works. Enjoy -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=366346#366346 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/piet_117_211.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/piet_115_187.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/piet_102_204.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Naked Piet pics 2000 vintage
From: "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca>
Date: Feb 15, 2012
Scott, Interesting pics. Thanks for sharing. Noticed a few unique details - like external elevator horns, for one. But I'm scratching my head trying to figure out what the black tubular structure on the side is (circled in attached photo). Bill C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=366353#366353 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/n11ms_side_920.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Naked Piet pics 2000 vintage
From: "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org>
Date: Feb 15, 2012
Ah, This will be fun. Yes those are the elevator horns on the outside to give it the old timey look like the Jennies. It also freed up the space behind the rear seat for a baggage area. The black stick on the side is a Johnson bar type brake. Note the rubber pad on the bottom. Dad used to have trouble keeping the plane from moving and the tower was getting upset about it when they told him to hold short. He came up with the idea to solve that problem. I can hold it from creeping clear up to 1200 RPM. I hardly ever use it. I do my run ups while taxing and I have figured out that if I keep the air pressure in the tires low enough to where they look half flat I have no problem stopping or holding short. It is on a separate pivot point then the control horn. -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=366356#366356 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC AEROSPACE CORP]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Date: Feb 15, 2012
Subject: Steve Ruse's link to his Continental Engine documents,
Eismann mags, Stromberg carb info..and more http://www.wotelectronics.com/airplane/Continental%20A-65/ In case anyone out there is looking for a complete clearinghouse of outstanding information on small Continental engines, Steve Ruse has already done the work. Your collection of these documents and manuals is outstanding Steve (akin to Chris Tracy's Westcoast Piet web site!) and deserves to be bookmarked, bigtime. Thank you so much for posting such a fantastic resource Steve. Mike C. > >For anyone who needs it, below is a link to my collection of small >Continental engine documents. Quite a bit of information here, I >apologize >for the file formatting being a little difficult: > >http://www.wotelectronics.com/airplane/Continental%20A-65/ > >Steve Ruse >Norman, OK ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 15, 2012
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Engine 2 Pictures Thoughts?
Thank you all for the help, advise, links and PDFs. I have an array of prec ision measuring tools, so I will be checking specifications and the like so on. I have a couple old PDFs of the A-65 manual, but I also ordered the lat est from Continental as well. - I will be taking the various sub-assemblies apart over the next few days fo r cleaning and inspection.- I did put a digital caliper on both crank sha fts last night. It appears the taper shaft crank journals are within limits , but the flanged shaft is not.- I will look at this closer but that was the initial finding.- To me the journals look pretty good, but I don't kn ow how smooth they should be or what, if any, minor scratches/marks are all owed. - Anyhoo, I am just getting started so I have a lot to look into still. Thank s again. Michael Perez Karetaker Aero www.karetakeraero.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 15, 2012
Subject: Re: Steve Ruse's link to his Continental Engine documents,
Eismann mags, Stromberg carb info..and more
From: John Kuhfahl <kuhlcouper(at)gmail.com>
Wow--too cool. John On Wed, Feb 15, 2012 at 10:01 AM, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC AEROSPACE CORP] wrote: > AEROSPACE CORP]" > > http://www.wotelectronics.com/airplane/Continental%20A-65/ > > > In case anyone out there is looking for a complete clearinghouse of > outstanding > information on small Continental engines, Steve Ruse has already done the > work. > > Your collection of these documents and manuals is outstanding Steve (akin > to Chris Tracy's > Westcoast Piet web site!) and deserves to be bookmarked, bigtime. > > Thank you so much for posting such a fantastic resource Steve. > > Mike C. > > > > > > >For anyone who needs it, below is a link to my collection of small > >Continental engine documents. Quite a bit of information here, I > >apologize > >for the file formatting being a little difficult: > > > >http://www.wotelectronics.com/airplane/Continental%20A-65/ > > > >Steve Ruse > >Norman, OK > > -- John Kuhfahl, Lt Col USAF (Ret), President, KUHLCOUPER LLC ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: carb hookup
Date: Feb 15, 2012
What's the best part to use to hook up my push/pull cable to the mixture control arm on my c-90? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 15, 2012
From: Ben Charvet <bencharvet(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Engine 2 Pictures Thoughts?
The advice I got from one of the old hands at my airport was to spend money to do the bottom end right, like have the crank, crankcase, cam, and cam followers overhauled. I spend about $1200 on the above, and it involved shipping the crank and crankcase to Arizona. The reasoning was that catastrophic failures happen in the bottom end, where a cylinder can be changed out easily. I ended up having my cylinders redone too, but if you have to decide where to spend your money, I'd concentrate on the bottom first. Just my $.02 Ben Charvet On 2/15/2012 11:46 AM, Michael Perez wrote: > Thank you all for the help, advise, links and PDFs. I have an array of > precision measuring tools, so I will be checking specifications and > the like soon. I have a couple old PDFs of the A-65 manual, but I also > ordered the latest from Continental as well. > I will be taking the various sub-assemblies apart over the next few > days for cleaning and inspection. I did put a digital caliper on both > crank shafts last night. It appears the taper shaft crank journals are > within limits, but the flanged shaft is not. I will look at this > closer but that was the initial finding. To me the journals look > pretty good, but I don't know how smooth they should be or what, if > any, minor scratches/marks are allowed. > Anyhoo, I am just getting started so I have a lot to look into still. > Thanks again. > > Michael Perez > Karetaker Aero > www.karetakeraero.com > > * > > > * -- Ben Charvet, PharmD Staff Pharmacist Parrish Medical center ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Greg Cardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Naked Piet pics 2000 vintage
Date: Feb 15, 2012
Scott, Tell us a little about your rims and hubs. Where did you find them? Greg Cardinal Minneapolis ----- Original Message ----- From: "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org> Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2012 8:09 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Naked Piet pics 2000 vintage > > > Hi Guys, > > Here are some pics from my rebuild back in the year 2000. This coming > March 31st will be the 40th anniversary of its first flight. I don't know > how many I can post or if there will be any trouble viewing them. So lets > give this a try. I can post some more if this works. > > Enjoy > > -------- > Scott Liefeld > Flying N11MS since March 1972 > Steel Tube > C-85-12 > Wire Wheels > Brodhead in 1996 > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=366346#366346 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/piet_117_211.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/piet_115_187.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/piet_102_204.jpg > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Clif Dawson" <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Naked Piet pics 2000 vintage
Date: Feb 15, 2012
Good one. Check this out from the days of dirt. Clif The black stick on the side is a Johnson bar type brake. Note the rubber pad on the bottom. Dad used to have trouble keeping the plane from moving and the tower was getting upset about it when they told him to hold short. He came up with the idea to solve that problem. > Scott Liefeld > Flying N11MS since March 1972 > Steel Tube > C-85-12 > Wire Wheels > Brodhead in 1996 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chris" <catdesigns(at)att.net>
Subject: motorcycle wheels
Date: Feb 16, 2012
Raymond This is what Wil Graff did on his Piet The wheels used on my Piet are older (1970s) Suzuki 250 or 400 dirt bike front wheels. I also used the same brakes , cables, and handles. The wheel hubs were drilled out for brass bushings to fit a 1.25 " cold rolled hollow axel. The 1.25 diam. axel was machined for a hot -cold shrink fit on main large axel. The hand brakes and wheels are doing just fine. The axels are lubed with never- seize grease. Wil Graff You can see his plane here http://westcoastpiet.com/images/Will%20Graff/pictures.htm I believe Alan James used 60's vintage Triumph motorcycle wheels with a smaller axel http://westcoastpiet.com/images/G-BUCO%20Pictures/pictures.htm Chris Sacramento, Ca Westcoastpiet.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of skellytown flyer Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2012 5:46 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: motorcycle wheels --> Are there any spoke motorcycle wheels that have large enough hubs to be machined to fit on 1 1/4" diameter axles? I'm fed up with trying to get the ancient old 6" wheel brakes I have to work- they're the old expander tube shoe and drum style and I think need more volume than the master cylinders I have can produce. and if I change anything at this point I'd much rather go with spoke wheels. yet I want to keep the Cub gear legs I have.and not alter them if possible.I have no problem with machining hubs for brass bushings, and mechanical drum brakes would be OK too if I found a set that could be altered to fit. Raymond Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=366324#366324 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Spar problem
From: "bender" <jfaith(at)solairusaviation.com>
Date: Feb 16, 2012
Hey guys... I'm kinda freaking out a little.. i built a one piece wing.. with solid 3/4 inch spars.. my right rear spar outboard of the strut attach point has warped a bit.. it moved down at the tip about a half an inch..it looks even more exaggerated at the trailing edge. i can lift the wing tip and make it all line up.. i assume they all have a bit of flexibility outside of the strut attach point I'm thinking i need to cut the spar and splice in a new section that is straight .. my other thought was maybe way off.. 43-13 allows a plywood doubler to be attached to reinforce a crack in a spar.. i wondered if i could jack up the wing tip and add a piece of 1/8 inch plywood to the rear of the spar to keep it in place.. from just inboard of the fitting to the tip... once the glue dried the ply should stabilize the spar and keep it from moving down again.. i'm afraid splicing in a new section may be the only hope.. but i wonder if air loads move the wing much.. jeff :( Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=366442#366442 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Spar problem
From: "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com>
Date: Feb 16, 2012
Jeff... Do you think you can lengthen the right rear strut and take care of the problem by adding in some washout. The wings can really flex quite a bit. I realize the problem is outboard of the strut, but maybe you can move it up enough to cancel out that down warp. Don Emch NX899DE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=366447#366447 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Spar problem
Date: Feb 16, 2012
Jeff, Exact same thing has happened to my left wing. It doesn't take very much pressure to straighten it. Before varnishing, I supported the spar on both ends, sprayed about 1 gallon of water on it, allowing it to soak in for about 30 seconds at each pass, and then hung about 50 lbs of weight at the center. That was plenty to pull the warp out, so I let it dry for several days. After removing the weight, most...not all...the warp had disappeared. It's varnished now, and has been hanging in the ceiling for about 2 months. Tomorrow I'll be bringing it down for fabric and will know if the fix stuck. I'll let you know.... Gary Boothe NX308MB -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of bender Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2012 7:02 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Spar problem --> Hey guys... I'm kinda freaking out a little.. i built a one piece wing.. with solid 3/4 inch spars.. my right rear spar outboard of the strut attach point has warped a bit.. it moved down at the tip about a half an inch..it looks even more exaggerated at the trailing edge. i can lift the wing tip and make it all line up.. i assume they all have a bit of flexibility outside of the strut attach point I'm thinking i need to cut the spar and splice in a new section that is straight .. my other thought was maybe way off.. 43-13 allows a plywood doubler to be attached to reinforce a crack in a spar.. i wondered if i could jack up the wing tip and add a piece of 1/8 inch plywood to the rear of the spar to keep it in place.. from just inboard of the fitting to the tip... once the glue dried the ply should stabilize the spar and keep it from moving down again.. i'm afraid splicing in a new section may be the only hope.. but i wonder if air loads move the wing much.. jeff :( Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=366442#366442 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: The previous Pietenpol club
From: "Piet2015" <archives(at)ktfiles.com>
Date: Feb 17, 2012
What was the name of the Pietenpol club that existed prior to the formation of the Brodhead Pietenpol Association? Did it have a newsletter and are they something worth searching for and acquiring? Thanks CL Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=366454#366454 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Dan Yocum <yocum137(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: The previous Pietenpol club
Date: Feb 17, 2012
BPA - Buckeye Pietenpol Association. Doc Mosher probably has copies of their newsletters which he'd probably be willing to reproduce for a nominal fee. Dan -- Dan Yocum yocum137(at)gmail.com "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things." On Feb 17, 2012, at 2:37 AM, "Piet2015" wrote: > > What was the name of the Pietenpol club that existed prior to the formation of the Brodhead Pietenpol Association? Did it have a newsletter and are they something worth searching for and acquiring? > > Thanks CL > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=366454#366454 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Spar problem
From: "Jerry Dotson" <jdotson(at)centurylink.net>
Date: Feb 17, 2012
Jeff I would use cover technique to pull some twist out. My wing is one piece too but it turned out great. I have modeled for years and have straightened several twisted wings by twisting it the opposite way too far then cover and slowly shrink, let go and see where it goes. You may need to shrink more on the top side than the bottom. Like Don said the wing is pretty flexible. Mine got stiffer after the cover but is still flexible. -------- Jerry Dotson 59 Daniel Johnson Rd Baker, FL 32531 Started building NX510JD July, 2009 now covering and painting 21" wheels Lycoming O-235 C2C Jay Anderson CloudCars prop 76 X 44 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=366461#366461 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 17, 2012
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 02/16/12
From: Timothy Willis <timwillis01(at)gmail.com>
Don't cut it. Period. IMO adding a ply scab would introduce stress points on each side of the scab, but that may not be critical. You have two good solutions suggested. If the wing is not all assembled, wetting and stressing may well work. If your wing is all assembled, Don's suggestion of adding washout would help. Do you know the status of your other wing; e.g., is it built yet? Maybe you have the same droop in it, too. Worse would be a loft on its tip-- a warp in the opposite direction-- permanent bank built in? Tim in central TX > ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ > > > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Spar problem > From: "bender" <jfaith(at)solairusaviation.com> > > > Hey guys... > I'm kinda freaking out a little.. > i built a one piece wing.. with solid 3/4 inch spars.. > > my right rear spar outboard of the strut attach point has warped a bit.. > it moved down at the tip about a half an inch..it looks even more exaggerated at > the trailing edge. > i can lift the wing tip and make it all line up.. > i assume they all have a bit of flexibility outside of the strut attach point > > I'm thinking i need to cut the spar and splice in a new section that is straight > .. > my other thought was maybe way off.. 43-13 allows a plywood doubler to be attached > to reinforce a crack in a spar.. > i wondered if i could jack up the wing tip and add a piece of 1/8 inch plywood > to the rear of the spar to keep it in place.. from just inboard of the fitting > to the tip... once the glue dried the ply should stabilize the spar and keep > it from moving down again.. > > i'm afraid splicing in a new section may be the only hope.. but i wonder if air > loads move the wing much.. > > jeff :( > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=366442#366442 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Naked Piet pics 2000 vintage
From: "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org>
Date: Feb 17, 2012
My wheels were made and sold by Hayes for airplanes back in the 1920's. Hayes had about 3 different sizes. They are drop center wheels not the clincher type. You will notice that there are 3 rows of spokes. The outside row gives them the strength for the side loads induced by aircraft. I have 300 x16" motorcycle tires on them. The spokes are straight laced meaning that they don't cross like a motorcycle wheel does. I am told that because of this I cannot put disc brakes on it. Others have said the hub would have the ability to spin out if there was a braking load applied to them. I'm not sure about that and have not tried it. A friend of ours had them hanging on the wall above his couch in his living room. He said we could have them if we would use them. This was back in 1970. These are the only wheels that have been on this plane. They have worked out very well for us. -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=366475#366475 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Spar problem
From: "bender" <jfaith(at)solairusaviation.com>
Date: Feb 17, 2012
ahh yes... its Douglas fir.. the one that moved has the least tight rings.. but it has about 10 per inch..vertical grain..the others have twice that many I purchased the boards locally from a place called Koetter lumber. i wondered about wetting the spar and holding it in place.. thanks for the help jeff Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=366482#366482 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: The previous Pietenpol club
From: "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca>
Date: Feb 17, 2012
Uhhh, maybe not. This matter has been discussed in the past. The previous BPA newsletters (Buckeye Pietenpol Association) were compiled and published by Grant McLaren, who holds the copyright to them. Grant has made it clear that he does not grant permission to copy and/or redistribute the old newsletters, as is his legal right. Don't bother asking Doc to make copies. The only option would be to find someone that has a collection of the old newsletters that wanted to part with them permanently. End of story. Bill C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=366493#366493 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: The previous Pietenpol club
From: "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca>
Date: Feb 17, 2012
As I said, this issue has been discussed before. Questions were asked, and very clear answers were given directly from the holder of the copyright. If Grant ever chooses to republish them, I'm sure we'll hear about it. But for now, the case is closed. Let it rest. Nuff said. Bill C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=366496#366496 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Spar problem
Date: Feb 17, 2012
Jeff, I have great news! Today I brought down the wing that had the warp in the spar, in prep for cover. This trailing edge had warped about =BE=94!! In review, before varnish, I supported the wing on the ends, then started spraying water on the spar. Kiln dried lumber soaks up water quickly! I estimate that I used about 1 gallon of water, allowing the =91coats=92 to soak in each time. Then, from the strut attach bracket, I suspended about 50 lbs of weight. In my case, that was enough to bring it to straight. After drying for a few days, I removed the weight. The spar remained straight, so I varnished it. It hung for about 2 months in the ceiling, during which time I had little hope that it would stay fixed. Imagine my relief today!! Best of luck to you, too=85 Gary Boothe NX308MB -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of bender Sent: Friday, February 17, 2012 8:24 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Spar problem --> < jfaith(at)solairusaviation.com> ahh yes... its Douglas fir.. the one that moved has the least tight rings.. but it has about 10 per inch..vertical grain..the others have twice that many I purchased the boards locally from a place called Koetter lumber. i wondered about wetting the spar and holding it in place.. thanks for the help jeff Read this topic online here: <http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=366482#366482> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=366482#366482 List 7-Day http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 02/16/12
From: "bender" <jfaith(at)solairusaviation.com>
Date: Feb 17, 2012
the wing is all together... one piece wing the other side is perfect.. My guess is a trim tab or aileron rigging would work but i don't like it.. i thought about the stress part.. and considered that i could add ply to the rear side of both rear spars..the full length.. then they would be the same.. i may try the wetting the spar and bracing it in the right position till dry thanks for the thoughts jeff Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=366509#366509 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "l.morlock" <l.morlock(at)att.net>
Subject: Re: Spar problem
Date: Feb 17, 2012
Jeff, have you checked whether your center section is square? I have a one piece wing and had a similar problem with the right rear corner of the wing sagging. I had used cables to hold the center section in place so I could easily move the wing fore and aft when I was checking the CG. After saw the problem with the corner of the wing sagging, I was so focused on the outboard end of the wings that I hadn't paid any attention to the center section not being square until my EAA tech counselor pointed it out. When I squared up the center section, the outboard corner of the wing came up where it should be. This problem is probably unique to the one-piece wing. Larry ----- Original Message ----- From: "bender" <jfaith(at)solairusaviation.com> Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2012 10:01 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Spar problem > > > Hey guys... > I'm kinda freaking out a little.. > i built a one piece wing.. with solid 3/4 inch spars.. > > my right rear spar outboard of the strut attach point has warped a bit.. > it moved down at the tip about a half an inch..it looks even more > exaggerated at the trailing edge. > i can lift the wing tip and make it all line up.. > i assume they all have a bit of flexibility outside of the strut attach > point > > I'm thinking i need to cut the spar and splice in a new section that is > straight .. > my other thought was maybe way off.. 43-13 allows a plywood doubler to be > attached to reinforce a crack in a spar.. > i wondered if i could jack up the wing tip and add a piece of 1/8 inch > plywood to the rear of the spar to keep it in place.. from just inboard of > the fitting to the tip... once the glue dried the ply should stabilize the > spar and keep it from moving down again.. > > i'm afraid splicing in a new section may be the only hope.. but i wonder > if air loads move the wing much.. > > jeff :( > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=366442#366442 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 17, 2012
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: The previous Pietenpol club
I wonder if there would be much material in those older issues that has not been covered in the newer ones, or here on this list. Michael Perez Karetaker Aero www.karetakeraero.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: The previous Pietenpol club
From: "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca>
Date: Feb 17, 2012
Terry, Maybe the tone of my writing was misleading. No offense was taken. I too would love to be able to access those old issues of the BPA newsletters, but unfortunately we can't. For a little back story, see this thread from 4 years ago: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=43704&highlight=bpa Bill C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=366521#366521 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Greg Cardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: The previous Pietenpol club
Date: Feb 17, 2012
Michael Perez nailed it. This list, along with www.westcoastpiet and on line build logs, has reduced the value of the old newsletters. Greg Cardinal Minneapolis ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael Perez To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, February 17, 2012 6:14 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: The previous Pietenpol club I wonder if there would be much material in those older issues that has not been covered in the newer ones, or here on this list. Michael Perez Karetaker Aero www.karetakeraero.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Clif Dawson" <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: paint
Date: Feb 18, 2012
OK, how come I haven't seen this classic on a Piet yet??? Even the tail's the same shape. Clif To most people the sky is the limit. To a pilot, the sky is home. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "C N Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net>
Subject: Re: Spar problem
Date: Feb 18, 2012
Jeff, I have absolutely no experience with a one-piece wing, but just yesterday (Feb 17) a couple of friends and I put my 3 wing pieces together for the first time. Had a little trouble getting the holes in the metal pieces to line up but after we finally got things together the wing looks OK. Picture attached. I used spruce spars, incidentally. ----- Original Message ----- From: "bender" <jfaith(at)solairusaviation.com> Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2012 10:01 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Spar problem > > > Hey guys... > I'm kinda freaking out a little.. > i built a one piece wing.. with solid 3/4 inch spars.. > > my right rear spar outboard of the strut attach point has warped a bit.. > it moved down at the tip about a half an inch..it looks even more > exaggerated at the trailing edge. > i can lift the wing tip and make it all line up.. > i assume they all have a bit of flexibility outside of the strut attach > point > > I'm thinking i need to cut the spar and splice in a new section that is > straight .. > my other thought was maybe way off.. 43-13 allows a plywood doubler to be > attached to reinforce a crack in a spar.. > i wondered if i could jack up the wing tip and add a piece of 1/8 inch > plywood to the rear of the spar to keep it in place.. from just inboard of > the fitting to the tip... once the glue dried the ply should stabilize the > spar and keep it from moving down again.. > > i'm afraid splicing in a new section may be the only hope.. but i wonder > if air loads move the wing much.. > > jeff :( > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=366442#366442 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Brodhead Pietenpol Assc newsletters
Date: Feb 18, 2012
Everything said about the desire of the copyright holder to not make the old BPA back issues available is true, so that is a moot point for now. However, IF you ever hear of anybody selling their collection. SNAP 'EM UP!!! I was lucky enough to be about 20 years worth with my project with the first ones from the very early eighties. They are not only an invaluable resource for a builder, but they are very interesting reading. The flavor was very technical and flying oriented with TONS of useful info and stories, good and bad, to learn from. Grant had a soft spot for Fords so the newsletter heavily promoted the "purist of the pure" Piets. Cool stories like props flying off in flight, photos of the twin towers from a Piet! (try that today.) daily logs of California to Brodhead trips with lots of forced landings on desert roads, bailing wire fixes, sleeping bags under wings, filling radiators from cattle ponds, Marvel Mystery oil, flying for four days on two sandwiches and tractor parts/bubble gum fixes. There was one year with something like 37 Piets at Brodhead. They seemed to be VERY productive decades seeing lots of Piets getting built AND finished AND flown. Douwe ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: paint
From: "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca>
Date: Feb 18, 2012
Hey Clif, How about now? (although technically, it's a GN-1, rather than a Piet) Bill C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=366533#366533 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/larry_145.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Brodhead Pietenpol Assc newsletters
From: "BYD" <billsayre(at)ymail.com>
Date: Feb 18, 2012
Birth of the Pietenpol Association This is my recollection if someone can update the timing more accurately please do so. NATIONAL PIETENPOL ASSOCIATION newsletter by Janet Green in 1977 which then became the INTERNATIONAL PIETENPOL ASSOCIATION in 1985 with the newsletter produced by Bob Taylor. The BUCKEYE PIETENPOL ASSOCIATION first appeared in 1983 and the newsletter was produced by Frank Pavliga (Dick Akire was president) and was later produced by Grant Maclaren in 1990. In 2001, the Independent Register of Brodhead, WI started producing the BPA newsletter and the first color copies were made. Then around 2005, Doc Mosher assumed the responsibility for the BPA newsletter until the present. This is the closest I could figure from my archive of newsletters. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=366542#366542 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 18, 2012
From: Lawrence Williams <lnawms(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: The previous pietenpol club
Several of us have newsletters going back to pre-Pavliga days. Grant MacClaren's are by far some of the most professional and informative of any of the eras. Grant shows up at Brodhead sometimes and largely remains in the background. We tried to twist his arm to continue publishing but other interests and life's changes had him going in another direction. Several years ago I sent my entire collection to someone who was going to compile the whole history and make it available to anyone who wanted it. After keeping my newsletters for a year or so, I got them back but nothing more was ever said about his project. I suspect that even if they were made available they would be used about as frequently as the archives on this website and the same questions would still be asked with the same regularity as always. Larry (Top Curmudgeon) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 18, 2012
Subject: spar problem-again
From: Timothy Willis <timwillis01(at)gmail.com>
Jeff, It sounds as though Gary has a de-warp fix for a fully assembled wing, referenced below. However if you do not want to try that, I don't think your original idea of scabbing on a short length of ply will be detrimental. Consider that we introduce a major stress point where we scab on ply at the lift strut attach point. We can mitigate the differential loading by sanding the ends of that ply (like one half of half a scarfing process, right?) to taper off the forces at play. Do the same thing here. Make sure the ply length is long enough to straighten it out. And, after all, the ply scab is the FAA-recommended treatment for a cracked spar, etc. Lastly the Piet spar design is very forgiving and already overbuilt. Tim in central TX ========= Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Spar problem Jeff, I have great news! Today I brought down the wing that had the warp in the spar, in prep for cover. This trailing edge had warped about =BE=94!! In review, before varnish, I supported the wing on the ends, then started spraying water on the spar. Kiln dried lumber soaks up water quickly! I estimate that I used about 1 gallon of water, allowing the =91coats=92 to soak in each time. Then, from the strut attach bracket, I suspended about 50 lbs of weight. In my case, that was enough to bring it to straight. After drying for a few days, I removed the weight. The spar remained straight, so I varnished it. It hung for about 2 months in the ceiling, during which time I had little hope that it would stay fixed. Imagine my relief today!! Best of luck to you, too=85 Gary Boothe NX308MB ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Original 1930s Strut Tubing
From: "Piet2015" <archives(at)ktfiles.com>
Date: Feb 18, 2012
In Chet Peeks Pietenpol book Chet states that BH Pietenpol had this tubing custom made. Another place, maybe this forum, I read that the company that made it is still in business, but no longer supplies it. What is the true story on this tubing? Did it have a name? Does anyone know what it weighed per foot? Thanks CL Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=366555#366555 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: spar problem-again
From: "bender" <jfaith(at)solairusaviation.com>
Date: Feb 18, 2012
thanks for the thought.. Exactly my thought on the crack repair per 43-13.. it if OK for a crack repair how much stress are we causing ? I'm going to level the plane and check the whole thing..struts..cabane struts...and braces to make sure something isn't out of wack. i'm trying not to loose too much sleep yet.. covered my elevators and rudder today.. and will stitch em tomorrow.. but the next step is leveling and measuring jeff Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=366556#366556 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 18, 2012
Subject: Re: Original 1930s Strut Tubing
From: Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com>
That tubing has not been available for decades upon decades, probably disappearing not long after Pietenpol included it in the plans. Nowadays you use normal streamline tubing and install jury struts. Ryan Sent from my Galaxy Nexus On Feb 18, 2012 7:27 PM, "Piet2015" wrote: > > In Chet Peeks Pietenpol book Chet states that BH Pietenpol had this tubing > custom made. Another place, maybe this forum, I read that the company that > made it is still in business, but no longer supplies it. > > What is the true story on this tubing? > > Did it have a name? > > Does anyone know what it weighed per foot? > > Thanks CL > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=366555#366555 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Original 1930s Strut Tubing
From: "Piet2015" <archives(at)ktfiles.com>
Date: Feb 18, 2012
Ryan Mueller wrote: > That tubing has not been available for decades upon decades, probably disappearing not long after Pietenpol included it in the plans. Nowadays you use normal streamline tubing and install jury struts. -- Ryan Thanks Ryan, I know what we do today. I'm asking about the HISTORICAL aspect of this specific brand of streamlined tubing. This is what I need to know: What is the true story on this tubing? Was made custom for BHP or was it an off the shelf item? What period of time was it available? Did it have a name? What did it weigh per foot? Thanks CL Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=366558#366558 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Greg Cardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Original 1930s Strut Tubing
Date: Feb 18, 2012
It was internally ribbed tubing manufactured by the Kawneer Co. They are still in business but not selling streamlined tubing. http://www.kawneer.com/kawneer/north_america/en/info_page/home.asp ----- Original Message ----- From: "Piet2015" <archives(at)ktfiles.com> Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2012 7:22 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Original 1930s Strut Tubing > > > Ryan Mueller wrote: >> That tubing has not been available for decades upon decades, probably >> disappearing not long after Pietenpol included it in the plans. Nowadays >> you use normal streamline tubing and install jury struts. -- Ryan > > > Thanks Ryan, I know what we do today. I'm asking about the HISTORICAL > aspect of this specific brand of streamlined tubing. > > This is what I need to know: > > What is the true story on this tubing? Was made custom for BHP or was it > an off the shelf item? What period of time was it available? > > Did it have a name? > > What did it weigh per foot? > > Thanks CL > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=366558#366558 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Clif Dawson" <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: paint
Date: Feb 18, 2012
Ha! Now we're talkin! :-) Needs wheel pants to complete the scheme though. Clif > Hey Clif, > > How about now? > (although technically, it's a GN-1, rather than a Piet) > > Bill C. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 18, 2012
From: airlion <airlion(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: paint
hey ya'll. Has anyone tried to build the wheel pants that are in the flying and glider 1932 magazine? Gardiner --- On Sat, 2/18/12, Clif Dawson wrote: > From: Clif Dawson <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca> > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: paint > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Date: Saturday, February 18, 2012, 10:21 PM > --> Pietenpol-List message posted > by: "Clif Dawson" > > Ha! Now we're talkin! :-) > Needs wheel pants to complete the scheme though. > > Clif > > > > Hey Clif, > > > > How about now? > > (although technically, it's a GN-1, rather than a > Piet) > > > > Bill C. > > > Email Forum - > - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - > List Contribution Web Site - > -Matt > Dralle, List Admin. > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Question Re: Flying Strut Attachment Location
From: "tdudley(at)umn.edu" <tdudley(at)umn.edu>
Date: Feb 18, 2012
Hey all, I have a question regarding the location of attachment of the flying strut. I am building the three piece wing and am using 3/4" solid spars. Each half of the wing (not including the center section) is 13' 2.5" per plans. Today I laid out the spars and slid the ribs into position. As I read the plans, the center hole for the flying strut strap attachment to the spars is 79" from the root of the wing half. With my ribs in place, I measured this distance from the root of the wing. This location (79") appears to be only 3/4" from the next (outer) rib. This doesn't seem to be correct as it doesn't leave room for the underlying ply or the 3/4" square compression struts that would be fit in place. I did review westcoast piet pictures as well as some of the other personal build sites (Textor, Markle, Chouinard) to see how others have done it, and none of the pictures I saw have the "spacing" problem I seem to be running into. I spaced my ribs according to Drawing No. 5 of the "Improved" plans (from the outer edge, 4.5, 12, 12.5, 12.5, 12.5, 12.5, 12", etc., moving towards the root). Moving the "offending" rib doesn't seem to be the answer as it will change the aileron length. Did anyone else run into this problem? Or did I space my ribs incorrectly? Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks, Tom Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=366577#366577 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au>
Subject: Re: Question Re: Flying Strut Attachment Location
Date: Feb 19, 2012
Tom, I have just checked my photos and looks like I had a similar problem. This is how I solved it http://www.cpc-world.com/images/IMG_0964_JPG.jpg Check out some more pictures at http://www.cpc-world.com Cheers Peter Wonthaggi Australia -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of tdudley(at)umn.edu Sent: Sunday, 19 February 2012 4:58 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Question Re: Flying Strut Attachment Location --> Hey all, I have a question regarding the location of attachment of the flying strut. I am building the three piece wing and am using 3/4" solid spars. Each half of the wing (not including the center section) is 13' 2.5" per plans. Today I laid out the spars and slid the ribs into position. As I read the plans, the center hole for the flying strut strap attachment to the spars is 79" from the root of the wing half. With my ribs in place, I measured this distance from the root of the wing. This location (79") appears to be only 3/4" from the next (outer) rib. This doesn't seem to be correct as it doesn't leave room for the underlying ply or the 3/4" square compression struts that would be fit in place. I did review westcoast piet pictures as well as some of the other personal build sites (Textor, Markle, Chouinard) to see how others have done it, and none of the pictures I saw have the "spacing" problem I seem to be running into. I spaced my ribs according to Drawing No. 5 of the "Improved" plans (from the outer edge, 4.5, 12, 12.5, 12.5, 12.5, 12.5, 12", etc., moving towards the root). Moving the "offending" rib doesn't seem to be the answer as it will change the aileron length. Did anyone else run into this problem? Or did I space my ribs incorrectly? Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks, Tom Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=366577#366577 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Naked Piet pics 2000 vintage
From: "echobravo4" <eab4(at)comcast.net>
Date: Feb 19, 2012
That is true on the disc brake- I'm a bike mechanic (until Monday-getting a new job!) and straight (or radial laced) wheels can't use a disc brake, the braking forces can pull the spokes from the hub. Actually hubs have to specifically designed for radial lacing because the extra tension required can also pull the flange off the hub. Radial laced wheels- with one set of spokes anyway- are also not as strong in side loads as cross laced wheels. -------- Earl Brown I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I intended to be. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=366591#366591 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Question Re: Flying Strut Attachment Location
From: "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net>
Date: Feb 19, 2012
Tom: I also used the rib spacing as called for in the plans, but if I recall correctly, I think I moved my fitting and other pieces of the assembly away from the ribs in order to change the angle of the lift strut fitting (i.e. orient it in line with the lift strut as other builders have recommended). My lift struts will attach several inches closer to the root because of the relocation, angle change and the fact that I lengthened the fitting by about an inch. When I say several inches closer, I mean about 4-5". This did create a bit of a clearance problem where the drag/anti-drag cables were concerned, which required modification and reinforcement to several vertical or diagonal braces... I think several people have run into this problem. If I were to do it again, I would take the same approach, but I would probably move the entire assembly (plywood backing, lift strut fitting, etc.) as close as I reasonably could to the outer most rib, therefore placing the cable attach points and lift strut geometry closer to what is called for in the plans. The main drawbacks to how I did mine are, 1. The cables did not clear properly and, 2. There is 4-5" more inches of wing beyond the lift strut attachment than are in the original design. Hope this helps! -------- Mark Chouinard Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=366622#366622 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB" <steven.d.dortch(at)us.army.mil>
Date: Feb 19, 2012
Subject: Re: paint
For a real speed mod try these wheel pants that Jim Bede developed: Go in about 2.5 min to see the wheelpants http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMOyNCiMPOQ Blue Skies, Steve D ----- Original Message ----- From: airlion <airlion(at)bellsouth.net> Date: Saturday, February 18, 2012 23:05 Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: paint > > hey ya'll. Has anyone tried to build the wheel pants that are in the flying and glider 1932 magazine? Gardiner > > --- On Sat, 2/18/12, Clif Dawson < wrote: > > > From: Clif Dawson < > > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: paint > > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > > Date: Saturday, February 18, 2012, 10:21 PM > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted > > by: "Clif Dawson" < > > > > Ha! Now we're talkin! :-) > > Needs wheel pants to complete the scheme though. > > > > Clif > > > > > > > Hey Clif, > > > > > > How about now? > > > (although technically, it's a GN-1, rather than a > > Piet) > > > > > > Bill C. > > > > > > Email Forum - > > - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - > > List Contribution Web Site - > > -Matt > > Dralle, List Admin. > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Question Re: Flying Strut Attachment Location
Date: Feb 19, 2012
Tom, This may not help, as I used original drawings for the placement of my lift strut brackets. Since the lift force is up, I have not understood the reasoning for aligning the brackets with the struts. Gary Boothe NX308MB -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of tdudley(at)umn.edu Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2012 9:58 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Question Re: Flying Strut Attachment Location --> Hey all, I have a question regarding the location of attachment of the flying strut. I am building the three piece wing and am using 3/4" solid spars. Each half of the wing (not including the center section) is 13' 2.5" per plans. Today I laid out the spars and slid the ribs into position. As I read the plans, the center hole for the flying strut strap attachment to the spars is 79" from the root of the wing half. With my ribs in place, I measured this distance from the root of the wing. This location (79") appears to be only 3/4" from the next (outer) rib. This doesn't seem to be correct as it doesn't leave room for the underlying ply or the 3/4" square compression struts that would be fit in place. I did review westcoast piet pictures as well as some of the other personal build sites (Textor, Markle, Chouinard) to see how others have done it, and none of the pictures I saw have the "spacing" problem I seem to be running into. I spaced my ribs according to Drawing No. 5 of the "Improved" plans (from the outer edge, 4.5, 12, 12.5, 12.5, 12.5, 12.5, 12", etc., moving towards the root). Moving the "offending" rib doesn't seem to be the answer as it will change the aileron length. Did anyone else run into this problem? Or did I space my ribs incorrectly? Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks, Tom Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=366577#366577 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 19, 2012
From: shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Shad's Piet fly-in
Hello group, I am still trying to plan a little fly-in, I am leaning toward s either early july or late august.- I just started a new job so planning this is a little tougher, with no vacation yet.- It is nice to work on b uisness jets (Lears, Gulfstreams, Chanenger, Citation etc) instead of the g reyhound bus type regional airline aircraft.- I am still trying to coordi nate with my friend Shad, yes another Shad, to have one fly-in here in Cent erburg, He has hosted a couple here and they turn out to be fun for all.- We were thinking of having a water ballon bomb drop event, and some other just for the hell of it friendly competitions.- And after the airplanes a re tied down we can have a few cold beverages, and possibly do a movie on t he side of the hangar, But there will be no beating anyone with 2x4's, or l oosining of any foe's axle nuts, as we don't have a pond here to land in. - Corvair bashing and arguments on the best pietenpol landing gear, engine, and covering systems is all fair game.....just make sure to sleep with one eye open ha ha ha. - Shad ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 19, 2012
From: shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: paint
Dad and I thought about building some, but our piet is heavy enough already . - Shad --- On Sun, 2/19/12, Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB wrote: From: Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB <steven.d.dortch(at)us.army.mil> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: paint Date: Sunday, February 19, 2012, 3:19 PM ven.d.dortch(at)us.army.mil> For a real speed mod try these wheel pants that Jim Bede developed: Go in about 2.5 min to see the wheelpants http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMOyNCiMPOQ Blue Skies, Steve D ----- Original Message ----- From: airlion <airlion(at)bellsouth.net> Date: Saturday, February 18, 2012 23:05 Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: paint > > hey ya'll. Has anyone tried to build the wheel pants that are in the flyi ng and glider 1932 magazine? Gardiner > > --- On Sat, 2/18/12, Clif Dawson < wrote: > > > From: Clif Dawson < > > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: paint > > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > > Date: Saturday, February 18, 2012, 10:21 PM > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted > > by: "Clif Dawson" < > > > > Ha! Now we're talkin! :-) > > Needs wheel pants to complete the scheme though. > > > > Clif > > > > > > > Hey Clif, > > > > > > How about now? > > > (although technically, it's a GN-1, rather than a > > Piet) > > > > > > Bill C. > > > > > > Email Forum - > > ---- MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - > > List Contribution Web Site - > > - - - - - - - -Matt > > Dralle, List Admin. > > > > > > > > > > > > > le, List Admin. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Slick Magneto 48-1
From: "Overalles" <Overalles45(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Feb 19, 2012
I bought a brand new (old stock) slick 48-1 magneto that I think was for a Lycoming 0290G engine. I want to use this mag on a Ford Model A engine, I do not have any plug wires (Harness) can anyone tell me how to convert this mag to auto plug wires? Or should I just try and sell this mag? Thanks Walter Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=366668#366668 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 19, 2012
From: Rick Schreiber <lmforge(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Wing brace wires
I'm getting ready to instal my wings for the first time tomorrow. I was wondering what most builders have used for the cable size for the exterior wire x bracing on the lift struts. I know the plans call for 3/32", but I was just wondering how many went with 1/8". The only reference I could find was from Mike Cuy who went with 1/8" Rick Schreiber Valparaiso IN ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Greg Cardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Wing brace wires
Date: Feb 19, 2012
The lift strut cables on NX18235 are 1/8" . Greg C ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rick Schreiber" <lmforge(at)earthlink.net> Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2012 9:02 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing brace wires > > > I'm getting ready to instal my wings for the first time tomorrow. I was > wondering what most builders have used for the cable size for the exterior > wire x bracing on the lift struts. I know the plans call for 3/32", but I > was just wondering how many went with 1/8". The only reference I could > find was from Mike Cuy who went with 1/8" > > Rick Schreiber > Valparaiso IN > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Question Re: Flying Strut Attachment Location
From: "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net>
Date: Feb 19, 2012
I'm not sure if it makes a huge difference one way or another on the alignment of the lift strut attach fittings... I got the idea from Chuck Gantzer's videos and it seemed like a reasonable idea to me, so I did mine that way. Not the greatest drawings, but for anyone that might wonder what we are talking about, the first illustration shows the orientation of the fitting according to the plans and the second illustration shows what Chuck recommends. I'm not sure that he recommended eliminating the top cap, as I did... his suggestion was more about correcting the angle. If I recall, the idea that there may be a twisting motion applied to the fitting was undesirable. I've seen several examples of both, probably not a big deal. -------- Mark Chouinard Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=366674#366674 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/lift_strut_fittings002_891.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Question Re: Flying Strut Attachment Location
From: "tdudley(at)umn.edu" <tdudley(at)umn.edu>
Date: Feb 19, 2012
I'd like to thank everyone for their reply to my question. It was somewhat reassuring to hear others have run into a similar situation; I was afraid I might have measured and spaced my ribs incorrectly. I think, after hearing the responses, I will probably keep the rib in its "per plans" position and modify its attachment such that the flying strut and its underlying ply will fit. I think I'd rather do this than move the lift strut fitting towards the root and shorten the length of the lift strut. Peter, thank you for your quick response. Your website is one I've visited many times in the past (especially when I started my build--inspirational), and I think it is one of the best to re-visit. John, I've been following your build on the mykitplane.com. Let me know if you discover any hints or run into any snags in modifying your rib or placing your lift strut. Mark, sorry if I "called you out" by mentioning you by name in my post, but your build-web-site has been really helpful to me. I use it to "double-check" my work. Gary, helpful advice and pictures as always. Thanks again, Tom Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=366675#366675 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: spar problem-again
Date: Feb 19, 2012
Tim wrote: >Lastly the Piet spar design is very forgiving and already overbuilt. While I would generously characterize the Piet spar design as 'forgiving' since thousands of them have been built over the years with NO catastrophic structural failures and very satisfactory flight operations over thousands of flight hours by untold numbers of pilots, I would not characterize the spar design as 'overbuilt'. Several people have independently run calculations on the spars as designed, and have found them'adequate', but not 'overbuilt'. If anyone intends to modify the wing loading, spar design, airfoil, lift struts, or other aspects of the Piet wing- I strongly advise that they perform a basic structural analysis of what they intend to do and then draw their own conclusions. The Piet fuselage, on the other hand, is widely accepted as being 'overbuilt'. Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" Flying Squirrel N2069Z "Rocket" Medford, OR website at http://www.flysquirrel.net/rogueairparts ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Shad's Piet fly-in
From: "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Feb 20, 2012
What's the airport ID please? Tools Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=366688#366688 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: paint
From: Ron Eisaman <rdwdsgn(at)aol.com>
Date: Feb 20, 2012
Hello Group, I am back after many years, again attempting to finish my Piet within my lifetime. Long ago, I bought some laser-cut parts to make control horns. T he "certified welder" I used screwed everything up, so I want to try again. With my 30 second memory span, I forgot where I got them. Can you help? Ron Eisaman rdwdsgn(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: paint
Date: Feb 20, 2012
Lasers aren't really necessary. The thin (.032") steel sheet used to make the horns can be easily cut with tin snips or even a good pair of scissors. Jack Phillips NX899JP Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ron Eisaman Sent: Monday, February 20, 2012 7:38 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: paint Hello Group, I am back after many years, again attempting to finish my Piet within my lifetime. Long ago, I bought some laser-cut parts to make control horns. The "certified welder" I used screwed everything up, so I want to try again. With my 30 second memory span, I forgot where I got them. Can you help? Ron Eisaman rdwdsgn(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Question Re: Flying Strut Attachment Location
Date: Feb 20, 2012
When I started building my wings, I looked at the odd attachment of the lift strut fittings that were shown in the plans and started to redesign them to be in line with the lift struts (as more moderne airplanes do), but first I decided to do a stress analysis on the design. What I found surprised me, and gave me a lot more respect for Mr. Pietenpol as an engineer. His design puts a moment (a "twisting force") on the spar, which partially counteracts the bending moment induced by lift along the span of the wing. The result is that the stress within the spar is reduced slightly by using the design in the plans, so I left mine that way and did not change it. I'm glad I didn't change the design because I would have made the angle of the fitting wrong anyway, since long after I built the wing I decided to make my cabanes taller than the plans show, which changed the angle the lift strut makes with the spar anyway. Jack Phillips NX899JP Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of K5YAC Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2012 11:54 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Question Re: Flying Strut Attachment Location I'm not sure if it makes a huge difference one way or another on the alignment of the lift strut attach fittings... I got the idea from Chuck Gantzer's videos and it seemed like a reasonable idea to me, so I did mine that way. Not the greatest drawings, but for anyone that might wonder what we are talking about, the first illustration shows the orientation of the fitting according to the plans and the second illustration shows what Chuck recommends. I'm not sure that he recommended eliminating the top cap, as I did... his suggestion was more about correcting the angle. If I recall, the idea that there may be a twisting motion applied to the fitting was undesirable. I've seen several examples of both, probably not a big deal. -------- Mark Chouinard Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=366674#366674 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/lift_strut_fittings002_891.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Question Re: Flying Strut Attachment Location
From: "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net>
Date: Feb 20, 2012
Thanks Jack! I have figured in +2" in my cabane struts, based upon what several of you have told me looks and works good. With that additional distance I believe I came up with a 31* angle, which is where I set my lift strut attach points. Looking back, I'm not sure if I would have done it that way again. I think it will work just fine based upon what others have done, but there is certainly no benefit, as you pointed out. pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net wrote: > When I started building my wings, I looked at the odd attachment of the lift > strut fittings that were shown in the plans and started to redesign them to > be in line with the lift struts (as more moderne airplanes do), but first I > decided to do a stress analysis on the design. What I found surprised me, > and gave me a lot more respect for Mr. Pietenpol as an engineer. His design > puts a moment (a "twisting force") on the spar, which partially counteracts > the bending moment induced by lift along the span of the wing. The result > is that the stress within the spar is reduced slightly by using the design > in the plans, so I left mine that way and did not change it. > > I'm glad I didn't change the design because I would have made the angle of > the fitting wrong anyway, since long after I built the wing I decided to > make my cabanes taller than the plans show, which changed the angle the lift > strut makes with the spar anyway. > > Jack Phillips > NX899JP > Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia > > -- -------- Mark Chouinard Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=366713#366713 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: paint
From: "Jack(at)textors.com" <jack(at)textors.com>
Date: Feb 20, 2012
Ken Perkins Kenandvernaperkins(at)sbcglobal.net Jack Textor Sent from my iPad On Feb 20, 2012, at 6:37 AM, Ron Eisaman wrote: > Hello Group, > I am back after many years, again attempting to finish my Piet within m y lifetime. Long ago, I bought some laser-cut parts to make control horns. T he "certified welder" I used screwed everything up, so I want to try again. W ith my 30 second memory span, I forgot where I got them. Can you help? > > > Ron Eisaman > rdwdsgn(at)aol.com > > > > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 20, 2012
Subject: Re: paint
From: Ken Bickers <bickers.ken(at)gmail.com>
Ron, I have to confess that initially I was a bit intimidated by the control horns. Once I got started on them, I found the process of making them to be fun and very satisfying. No doubt, there are probably lots of right ways to cut the metal for the control horns. The way I did it turned out to be simple, and relatively fast. I drew all of the shapes at full scale onto graph paper. I then cut each of the shapes out (labelled, so that later I could quickly find the particular ones I needed). The shapes were transferred to the sheet of thin steel, using a permanent marker (labelled, as well, for the same reason as above). I cut the longer edges, just outside the lines, using a 4 1/2 cut-off tool. Short edges and tightly curved edges were cut with a metal cutting disk on a Dremel too. A few minutes with a file and I had a nice stack of pieces to begin making the control horns. The nice thing is that this was repeatable. So when the inevitable screw-up occurred and a piece needed to be refashioned, I wasn't beholden to a shop to make another blank. I'd just pop the needed paper shape onto a piece of the metal sheet, and redo things. Best of luck with this, Ken On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 10:29 AM, Jack(at)textors.com wrote: > Ken Perkins > Kenandvernaperkins(at)sbcglobal.net > > Jack Textor > Sent from my iPad > > On Feb 20, 2012, at 6:37 AM, Ron Eisaman wrote: > > Hello Group, > I am back after many years, again attempting to finish my Piet within my > lifetime. Long ago, I bought some laser-cut parts to make control horns. The > "certified welder" I used screwed everything up, so I want to try again. > With my 30 second memory span, I forgot where I got them. Can you help? > > > Ron Eisaman > rdwdsgn(at)aol.com > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 20, 2012
Subject: spar repair-- correction
From: Timothy Willis <timwillis01(at)gmail.com>
Oscar, Thanks for the correction. I was guilty of overstating the case on the robustness of the spar design. As usual you are right. I will stick with my other comments on the fix of warp with a ply scab, though. Tim in central TX From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> Subject: Pietenpol-List: spar problem-again Tim wrote: "Lastly the Piet spar design is very forgiving and already overbuilt." While I would generously characterize the Piet spar design as 'forgiving' since thousands of them have been built over the years with NO catastrophic structural failures and very satisfactory flight operations over thousands of flight hours by untold numbers of pilots, I would not characterize the spar design as 'overbuilt'. Several peoplehave independently run calculations on the spars as designed, and have found them'adequate', but not 'overbuilt'. If anyone intends to modify the wing loading, spar design, airfoil, lift struts, or other aspects of the Piet wing- I strongly advise that they perform a basic structural analysis of what they intend to do and then draw their own conclusions. The Piet fuselage, on the other hand, is widely accepted as being 'overbuilt'. Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" Flying Squirrel N2069Z "Rocket" Medford, OR website at http://www.flysquirrel.net/rogueairparts ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: paint
From: "aerocarjake" <flight.jake(at)gmail.com>
Date: Feb 20, 2012
I'm surprised that no one (I know of) has done the "trimotor" paint scheme.....?!?!?!? -------- Jake Schultz - curator, Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=366730#366730 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/ford_paint_2_326.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Rust removal
From: "skellytown flyer" <skellflyer1(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Feb 20, 2012
This may have been on here before but it is from the Corvair site. could be of some use to a few if they are restoring tractors, model A's or whatever.if there is any interest there were several follow ups dealing with where to get the Soda. basically I think the easiest one was some type of swimming pool additive available at hardware stores or pool supply stores.PH-up? might have been the name of the product.Raymond This may have been mentioned on the list before, but last weekend I built myself an electrolysis vat for cleaning away rust. This really works. I cleaned my exhaust logs and my cooling baffles. Once out of the vat it took very little work to get them ready for painting. One exhaust log had a crack through one port and after removing them from the vat I was able to clearly see where the crack ran so I could vee it out and repair it with brazing. This link is a pretty good description of the electrolysis process. http://www.rowand.net/Shop/Tools/Electrolysis.htm This only works on ferris metals. I did do a little sand blasting afterwards but I am not sure it was really necessary. Just be careful as the process generates hydrogen which is very explosive. I located my vat outside and even in sub zero tempratures the electrolysis generated enough heat that nothing froze. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=366746#366746 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 21, 2012
From: Rod Wooller <rmwo(at)clear.net.nz>
Subject: First flight
After an 11 year building project that started in Western Australia and ended in New Zealand, ZK-PAC took off from West Auckland Parakai airfield with test pilot Dave Simpson at the controls. After about 20 minutes flight he landed and remarked that it flew just like a 1930's aircraft. There is of course a list of minor alterations and adjustments to be done before the next flight but if the weather is kind the test program should be completed this summer. The shaky video is partly due to the zoom lens, but mainly just the pure excitement! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjqhhmNpFS8 <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjqhhmNpFS8&feature=email> &feature=email Rod Wooller Auckland, New Zealand ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 20, 2012
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Wing brace wires
I am not sure why people switched to 1/8" cable.- Unless proven inadequat e, I will be using the 3/32". Michael Perez Karetaker Aero www.karetakeraero.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 20, 2012
From: airlion <airlion(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: paint
I will have to confess that I was baffelled by the horns so I just made them out of .090 and they worked great.How about having a workshop on horn making at Broadhead. Cheers, Gardiner ----- Original Message ---- From: Ken Bickers <bickers.ken(at)gmail.com> Sent: Mon, February 20, 2012 12:48:53 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: paint Ron, I have to confess that initially I was a bit intimidated by the control horns. Once I got started on them, I found the process of making them to be fun and very satisfying. No doubt, there are probably lots of right ways to cut the metal for the control horns. The way I did it turned out to be simple, and relatively fast. I drew all of the shapes at full scale onto graph paper. I then cut each of the shapes out (labelled, so that later I could quickly find the particular ones I needed). The shapes were transferred to the sheet of thin steel, using a permanent marker (labelled, as well, for the same reason as above). I cut the longer edges, just outside the lines, using a 4 1/2 cut-off tool. Short edges and tightly curved edges were cut with a metal cutting disk on a Dremel too. A few minutes with a file and I had a nice stack of pieces to begin making the control horns. The nice thing is that this was repeatable. So when the inevitable screw-up occurred and a piece needed to be refashioned, I wasn't beholden to a shop to make another blank. I'd just pop the needed paper shape onto a piece of the metal sheet, and redo things. Best of luck with this, Ken On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 10:29 AM, Jack(at)textors.com wrote: > Ken Perkins > Kenandvernaperkins(at)sbcglobal.net > > Jack Textor > Sent from my iPad > > On Feb 20, 2012, at 6:37 AM, Ron Eisaman wrote: > > Hello Group, > I am back after many years, again attempting to finish my Piet within my > lifetime. Long ago, I bought some laser-cut parts to make control horns. The > "certified welder" I used screwed everything up, so I want to try again. > With my 30 second memory span, I forgot where I got them. Can you help? > > > Ron Eisaman > rdwdsgn(at)aol.com > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 20, 2012
From: airlion <airlion(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Rust removal
I have always used OSPHO Which stands for Osphoric acid. It works great for cleaning and prepping metal for painting Cheers, Gardiner ----- Original Message ---- From: skellytown flyer <skellflyer1(at)yahoo.com> Sent: Mon, February 20, 2012 4:56:49 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Rust removal This may have been on here before but it is from the Corvair site. could be of some use to a few if they are restoring tractors, model A's or whatever.if there is any interest there were several follow ups dealing with where to get the Soda. basically I think the easiest one was some type of swimming pool additive available at hardware stores or pool supply stores.PH-up? might have been the name of the product.Raymond This may have been mentioned on the list before, but last weekend I built myself an electrolysis vat for cleaning away rust. This really works. I cleaned my exhaust logs and my cooling baffles. Once out of the vat it took very little work to get them ready for painting. One exhaust log had a crack through one port and after removing them from the vat I was able to clearly see where the crack ran so I could vee it out and repair it with brazing. This link is a pretty good description of the electrolysis process. http://www.rowand.net/Shop/Tools/Electrolysis.htm This only works on ferris metals. I did do a little sand blasting afterwards but I am not sure it was really necessary. Just be careful as the process generates hydrogen which is very explosive. I located my vat outside and even in sub zero tempratures the electrolysis generated enough heat that nothing froze. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=366746#366746 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 21, 2012
From: Jim Boyer <boyerjrb(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Rust removalby electrolysis
Its called Washing Soda and is readily available at your local ACE Hardware store. Its in a yellow=C2- box and is made by Arm & Hammer. It will cost $5 a box plus whatever your local sales tax rate. Jim B. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 21, 2012
From: johnwoods(at)westnet.com.au
Subject: Re: First flight
Congratulations Rod! Great to see her take flight. Best regards, John Woods Western Australia ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: First flight
From: "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net>
Date: Feb 20, 2012
That's great Rod! Congratulations! -------- Mark Chouinard Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=366767#366767 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Rust removalby electrolysis
From: "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Feb 20, 2012
You pretty much just need it to be an electrolyte solution of some sort, lots of things will work. There's a very good writeup online somewhere that recommended using lye. The advantage there was that it also ate off old paint... however, that stuff is quite dangerous. Another neat feature is that with creative placement of the sacrificial anode, you can remove rust from inside things, where other methods are nearly useless. Tools Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=366773#366773 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 20, 2012
From: shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Shad's Piet fly-in
Ident is 6CM, Chapman Memorial Airport, Centerburg, Ohio.- It is just nor th of Columbus about 20 miles, grass only, and the owner puts out notams fo r prior permission before landing. - Shad --- On Mon, 2/20/12, tools wrote: From: tools <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Shad's Piet fly-in Date: Monday, February 20, 2012, 6:46 AM What's the airport ID please? Tools Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=366688#366688 le, List Admin. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Greg Cardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: First flight
Date: Feb 20, 2012
Well done, Rod! Keep us posted on the "minor alterations and adjustments". When will you fly it? Greg Cardinal Minneapolis ----- Original Message ----- From: Rod Wooller To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, February 20, 2012 5:03 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: First flight After an 11 year building project that started in Western Australia and ended in New Zealand, ZK-PAC took off from West Auckland Parakai airfield with test pilot Dave Simpson at the controls. After about 20 minutes flight he landed and remarked that it flew just like a 1930's aircraft. There is of course a list of minor alterations and adjustments to be done before the next flight but if the weather is kind the test program should be completed this summer. The shaky video is partly due to the zoom lens, but mainly just the pure excitement! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjqhhmNpFS8&feature=email Rod Wooller Auckland, New Zealand ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: First flight
Date: Feb 20, 2012
Outstanding, Rod! Great feeling, isn't it? Jack Phillips NX899JP Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rod Wooller Sent: Monday, February 20, 2012 6:03 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: First flight After an 11 year building project that started in Western Australia and ended in New Zealand, ZK-PAC took off from West Auckland Parakai airfield with test pilot Dave Simpson at the controls. After about 20 minutes flight he landed and remarked that it flew just like a 1930's aircraft. There is of course a list of minor alterations and adjustments to be done before the next flight but if the weather is kind the test program should be completed this summer. The shaky video is partly due to the zoom lens, but mainly just the pure excitement! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjqhhmNpFS8 <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjqhhmNpFS8&feature=email> &feature=email Rod Wooller Auckland, New Zealand ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: First flight
From: "Kyle85" <boschkyle(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Feb 20, 2012
Congrats! That is really motivating. I just bought my spar wood from woodsmith store in Des Moines Iowa yesterday, this makes me want to go work on it right now. Beautiful plane! I hope you have countless hours of enjoyment for all your toils. -------- Airspeed, altitude or brains: Two are always needed to successfully complete the flight. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=366783#366783 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Wing brace wires
From: "dgaldrich" <dgaldrich(at)embarqmail.com>
Date: Feb 20, 2012
Somewhere in the bowels of the FAA publications is a reference that says "primary control cables" will be at least 1/8 inch. Just did a quick look at 43-13 but didn't find the reference. Might be in Part 23? In any event, that's the origin. I don't think brace or drag/antidrag have a specific minimum size. No guarantees on that last statement. Dave Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=366795#366795 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: First flight
From: Hans Van Der Voort <hvandervoo(at)aol.com>
Date: Feb 20, 2012
awsome, have fun. Hans NX15KV -----Original Message----- From: Rod Wooller <rmwo(at)clear.net.nz> Sent: Mon, Feb 20, 2012 5:05 pm Subject: Pietenpol-List: First flight After an 11 year building project that started in Western Australia and end ed in New Zealand, ZK-PAC took off from West Auckland Parakai airfield with test pilot Dave Simpson at the controls. After about 20 minutes flight he landed and remarked that it flew just like a 1930=99s aircraft. There is of course a list of minor alterations and adjustments to be done before the next flight but if the weather is kind the test program should be comp leted this summer. The shaky video is partly due to the zoom lens, but main ly just the pure excitement! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjqhhmNpFS8&feature=email Rod Wooller Auckland, New Zealand -= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List - -======================== -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -======================== -= - List Contribution Web Site - -= Thank you for your generous support! -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution -======================== ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Wing brace wires
From: Hans Van Der Voort <hvandervoo(at)aol.com>
Date: Feb 20, 2012
I used 3/32 on all control cables, 1/16 on tail wires, but 1/8 on wing brac e wires. Can't muscle more than the strength on the 3/32 The tail lumber can't handle more than the 1/16 And the wing bracing is redundancy on the struts Made sense to me Hans NX15KV -----Original Message----- From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> Sent: Mon, Feb 20, 2012 5:07 pm Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wing brace wires I am not sure why people switched to 1/8" cable. Unless proven inadequate, I will be using the 3/32". Michael Perez Karetaker Aero www.karetakeraero.com -= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List - -======================== -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -======================== -= - List Contribution Web Site - -= Thank you for your generous support! -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution -======================== ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: congratulations Rod!!!
Date: Feb 21, 2012
Beautiful plane Rod, and a great example of perseverance!! Thanks for sharing the great day. Douwe ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: congratulations Rod!!!
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 21, 2012
Very nice airplane Rod! Congratulations amigo. Dan Helsper Puryear, TN -----Original Message----- From: Douwe Blumberg <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> Sent: Tue, Feb 21, 2012 6:23 am Subject: Pietenpol-List: congratulations Rod!!! Beautiful plane Rod, and a great example of perseverance!! Thanks for sharing the great day. Douwe -= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List - -======================== -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -======================== -= - List Contribution Web Site - -= Thank you for your generous support! -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution -======================== ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mark Stanley" <mmrally(at)nifty.com>
Subject: Re: First flight
Date: Feb 21, 2012
G=99day Rod, Congrats on a great job mate! It must have been a real buzz to see you pride and joy doing what it is meant to do! Until now, I didn=99t know anything about your project but it is still great to see another Piet in the air. It will be quite a few years before I get anywhere near completion but like you, I just have to keep plugging away at it and the day will come. Anyway mate, good on ya, stay safe and have fun with your new toy!! Mark Stanley Ozzy in Japan From: Rod Wooller Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2012 8:03 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: First flight After an 11 year building project that started in Western Australia and ended in New Zealand, ZK-PAC took off from West Auckland Parakai airfield with test pilot Dave Simpson at the controls. After about 20 minutes flight he landed and remarked that it flew just like a 1930=99s aircraft. There is of course a list of minor alterations and adjustments to be done before the next flight but if the weather is kind the test program should be completed this summer. The shaky video is partly due to the zoom lens, but mainly just the pure excitement! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjqhhmNpFS8&feature=email Rod Wooller Auckland, New Zealand ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "C N Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net>
Subject: Re: paint
Date: Feb 21, 2012
Likewise, Gardiner, I made mine out of .090, also. I felt that the welded ones from thinner material were too complicated for my old mind. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "airlion" <airlion(at)bellsouth.net> Sent: Monday, February 20, 2012 6:07 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: paint > > I will have to confess that I was baffelled by the horns so I just made > them out > of .090 and they worked great.How about having a workshop on horn making > at > Broadhead. Cheers, Gardiner > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Ken Bickers <bickers.ken(at)gmail.com> > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Sent: Mon, February 20, 2012 12:48:53 PM > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: paint > > > Ron, I have to confess that initially I was a bit intimidated by the > control horns. Once I got started on them, I found the process of > making them to be fun and very satisfying. No doubt, there are > probably lots of right ways to cut the metal for the control horns. > The way I did it turned out to be simple, and relatively fast. > > I drew all of the shapes at full scale onto graph paper. I then cut > each of the shapes out (labelled, so that later I could quickly find > the particular ones I needed). The shapes were transferred to the > sheet of thin steel, using a permanent marker (labelled, as well, for > the same reason as above). I cut the longer edges, just outside the > lines, using a 4 1/2 cut-off tool. Short edges and tightly curved > edges were cut with a metal cutting disk on a Dremel too. A few > minutes with a file and I had a nice stack of pieces to begin making > the control horns. > > The nice thing is that this was repeatable. So when the inevitable > screw-up occurred and a piece needed to be refashioned, I wasn't > beholden to a shop to make another blank. I'd just pop the needed > paper shape onto a piece of the metal sheet, and redo things. > > Best of luck with this, Ken > > On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 10:29 AM, Jack(at)textors.com > wrote: >> Ken Perkins >> Kenandvernaperkins(at)sbcglobal.net >> >> Jack Textor >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On Feb 20, 2012, at 6:37 AM, Ron Eisaman wrote: >> >> Hello Group, >> I am back after many years, again attempting to finish my Piet within >> my >> lifetime. Long ago, I bought some laser-cut parts to make control horns. >> The >> "certified welder" I used screwed everything up, so I want to try again. >> With my 30 second memory span, I forgot where I got them. Can you help? >> >> >> Ron Eisaman >> rdwdsgn(at)aol.com >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Original 1930s Strut Tubing
From: "Piet2015" <archives(at)ktfiles.com>
Date: Feb 21, 2012
I agree with Don. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=366826#366826 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 21, 2012
From: Rick Schreiber <lmforge(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Wings are on!
Yesterday was another milestone on my project. The wings were finally mated to the fuselage for the first time. We had about 7 people for the task and it wound up being a smooth operation. I used the support idea from Jack Phillips (adjustable using threaded allrod) and the adjustable electrical conduit for the temporary struts from Lowell Frank. The wings are now in rig and today I will be finishing up the aileron cables. Attached are a few pictures. As often as I have been around Piets, I was still not prepared for how big it really is once the wings are on. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Wings are on!
Date: Feb 21, 2012
Looks great, Rick. What is that project in the hangar with you, a Fairchild 24? Jack Phillips NX899JP Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Schreiber Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2012 10:07 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wings are on! Yesterday was another milestone on my project. The wings were finally mated to the fuselage for the first time. We had about 7 people for the task and it wound up being a smooth operation. I used the support idea from Jack Phillips (adjustable using threaded allrod) and the adjustable electrical conduit for the temporary struts from Lowell Frank. The wings are now in rig and today I will be finishing up the aileron cables. Attached are a few pictures. As often as I have been around Piets, I was still not prepared for how big it really is once the wings are on. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: brian.e.jardine@l-3com.com
Subject: Wings are on!
Date: Feb 21, 2012
Looks great Rick congrats. When you get a minute could you take some close up pics of the adjustable wing support for the group. Thanks. Brian SLC-UT -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Schreiber Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2012 8:07 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wings are on! Yesterday was another milestone on my project. The wings were finally mated to the fuselage for the first time. We had about 7 people for the task and it wound up being a smooth operation. I used the support idea from Jack Phillips (adjustable using threaded allrod) and the adjustable electrical conduit for the temporary struts from Lowell Frank. The wings are now in rig and today I will be finishing up the aileron cables. Attached are a few pictures. As often as I have been around Piets, I was still not prepared for how big it really is once the wings are on. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 21, 2012
From: Rick Schreiber <lmforge(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Wing brace wires
Thanks to all who responded about the wing brace wires. I will be going with 1/8 inch aslo. Rick Schreiber ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 21, 2012
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: First flight
That is great news! As Jack said...it is great motivation for us whom are still building! Michael Perez Karetaker Aero www.karetakeraero.com - ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 21, 2012
From: Rick Schreiber <lmforge(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Wings are on!
On 2/21/2012 9:18 AM, Jack Phillips wrote: > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Jack Phillips" > > Looks great, Rick. What is that project in the hangar with you, a Fairchild > 24? > > Jack: Its a 1936 cabin class Waco. I'm not up on all the Waco letter designations, but if your interested I'll find out. The tail feathers went on the Waco just after my wings went on. Right now the hangar holds a L-2, a Stinson Voyager, the Waco and my Piet. Normally there is a Cessna 205 in place of the Stinson. Space is getting tight so I need to sart covering soon. Today I need to make and install my aileron balance cable and the wing rib tapes. Next will be the pitot tube and the jury strut attacments. Then the wings are off for cover. Rick Schreiber VPZ Valparaiso, IN ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 21, 2012
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Wings are on!
Looking good Rick!- I placed the wings on my plane for the first time las t summer. I took them back off to continue work inside my shop. I neglected to do a few minor things, so they will be going on AGAIN this summer! It's a great to see it all coming together. Michael Perez =0AKaretaker Aero =0Awww.karetakeraero.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 21, 2012
From: Rick Schreiber <lmforge(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Wings are on!
On 2/21/2012 9:26 AM, brian.e.jardine@l-3com.com wrote: > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: brian.e.jardine@l-3com.com > > Looks great Rick congrats. When you get a minute could you take some > close up pics of the adjustable wing support for the group. Thanks. > > Brian > SLC-UT > > Brian: Here is a picture of the wing/strut support. The main body of the strut is made from 3/4 inch electrical conduit. It was cut about 1 foot short. Inside of this is 1/2 inch conduit that is about 3 feet long. The 1/2 inch conduit is drilled and attaches to the wing. The 3/4 inch conduit is drilled and slotted and attaches to the fuselage. A small hose clamp is placed around the 1/2 inch conduit and tightened for adjustment. The temporary wing support made from 2 x 4's is also visible. I was going to just use c clamps for adjustments, but since I already had the threaded allrods I went ahead and used them. The ease of adjustment for setting dihedral and washout is nice. I also used a digital level to rig the wing. As Mike Cuy has said before a very useful tool. Mine is borrowed, but if I didn't have access I would go buy one. By the way, notice I have the 2x4 bracing and the conduit struts still in place. I'm sure the conduit will support the wings by themselves, but its sort of like wearing belts and suspenders. Plus there is some much building activity in the hangar it helps protect the wings. Regards, Rick Schreiber VPZ Valparaiso, IN ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 21, 2012
Subject: Re: Wings are on!
From: Ken Bickers <bickers.ken(at)gmail.com>
Rick, congratulations on this milestone. A work of art. Too bad you have to cover up all that fine woodwork. Cheers, Ken On Tue, Feb 21, 2012 at 8:51 AM, Michael Perez wrote: > Looking good Rick! I placed the wings on my plane for the first time last > summer. I took them back off to continue work inside my shop. I neglected > to do a few minor things, so they will be going on AGAIN this summer! > > It's a great to see it all coming together. > > Michael Perez > Karetaker Aero > www.karetakeraero.com > > * > > * > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 21, 2012
From: Rick Schreiber <lmforge(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: More wing info
While I'm on the subject of wings. I had my wing center section completed for a long time except for the trailing edge. I couldn't decide if I was going with a cutout, a flop or nothing at all - just a straight trailing edge. My cabane struts are extended 2 inches. I attached the partially completed center section, mocked up the wing bottom next to the center section and tried getting into the fuselage. I did this on a number of occasions and everything seemed to work OK with just a straight trailing edge, so thats how I finished the center section. I located a step on the right longeron after much testing and mockups. Again the centersection with the straight trailing edge worked fine for getting into the cockpit. Well time marched on ... I have gotten a little bigger, a little stiffer but I don't think any taller. I now decided that trying to get into and out of the cockpit without a cutout or flop was getting pretty difficult. After much had wringing, I decided to put in a flop. The actual instal was not too bad, but certainly would have been easier if I had planned on doing this from the beginning. Attached is a photo of how it turned out. Rick Schreiber VPZ Valparaiso, IN ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Wings are on!
From: "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net>
Date: Feb 21, 2012
Really cool Rick! -------- Mark Chouinard Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=366855#366855 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Wing brace wires
From: "dgaldrich" <dgaldrich(at)embarqmail.com>
Date: Feb 21, 2012
The strut brace wires perform the exact same function as the drag/anti-drag wires in the wings. They keep the rectangular box formed by the struts, the fuselage, and the wing compression struts (sort of a box on an angle) from going parallelogram on you. The short struts from the cabanes to the engine mount also assist in keeping the whole wing assembly square and true. Cubs and Aeroncas don't need the strut braces because the triangle formed with the wing is a stable geometric shape and their equivalent of our "center section" is the tube structure of the fuselage which is pretty darn rigid in comparison. Your are correct that the cables are redundant but they are redundant to the diagonal on the cabanes, not the lift struts. I'm thinking 1/8 is a pretty reasonable number. Dave Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=366857#366857 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 21, 2012
From: Ben Charvet <bencharvet(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: More wing info
On 2/21/2012 11:30 AM, Rick Schreiber wrote: > While I'm on the subject of wings. I had my wing center section > completed for a long time except for the trailing edge. I couldn't > decide if I was going with a cutout, a flop or nothing at all - just a > straight trailing edge. My cabane struts are extended 2 inches. I > attached the partially completed center section, mocked up the wing > bottom next to the center section and tried getting into the fuselage. > I did this on a number of occasions and everything seemed to work OK > with just a straight trailing edge, so thats how I finished the center > section. I located a step on the right longeron after much testing and > mockups. Again the centersection with the straight trailing edge > worked fine for getting into the cockpit. > > Well time marched on ... I have gotten a little bigger, a little > stiffer but I don't think any taller. I now decided that trying to get > into and out of the cockpit without a cutout or flop was getting > pretty difficult. After much had wringing, I decided to put in a flop. > The actual instal was not too bad, but certainly would have been > easier if I had planned on doing this from the beginning. Attached is > a photo of how it turned out. > > Rick Schreiber > VPZ > Valparaiso, IN I built a flop into mine too. I don't use it getting in, but it sure helps when its time to get out! -- Ben Charvet, PharmD Staff Pharmacist Parrish Medical center ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack" <jack(at)textors.com>
Subject: Throttle Linkage
Date: Feb 21, 2012
Does anyone out there have a picture of how their throttle linkage is hooked up? Specifically, I'm thinking of using a rod for control in both cockpits. How does this transition to cable and the carb? Thanks, Jack Jack Textor DSM NX1929T ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Throttle Linkage
Date: Feb 21, 2012
Jack, I did not provide throttle control for the front, but it would have been possible to weld a small handle on the tubing. The rod transitions to a cable with a "wire grip", http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/wiregrip.php. Gary Boothe NX308MB From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2012 5:45 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Throttle Linkage Does anyone out there have a picture of how their throttle linkage is hooked up? Specifically, I'm thinking of using a rod for control in both cockpits. How does this transition to cable and the carb? Thanks, Jack Jack Textor DSM NX1929T ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au>
Subject: Throttle Linkage
Date: Feb 22, 2012
Jack, Check out http://www.cpc-world.com/images/IMG_1044_JPG.jpg. This shows the front throttle/Mix etc. The cables have clevis fork rod ends at each end. The rear one (http://www.cpc-world.com/images/IMG_0996_JPG.jpg) is the same except rods/rod ends connect the levers. I had a standard clevis fork rod end on the carb end. I managed to get a clevis pin through the two rod ends and the lever on the front levers by cutting one of the forks off the rod end making it into a single connection J shaped as opposed to U shaped. Sorry I don't have any pictures. Hope that helps. Peter Wonthaggi Australia http://www.cpc-world.com From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack Sent: Wednesday, 22 February 2012 12:45 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Throttle Linkage Does anyone out there have a picture of how their throttle linkage is hooked up? Specifically, I'm thinking of using a rod for control in both cockpits. How does this transition to cable and the carb? Thanks, Jack Jack Textor DSM NX1929T ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 22, 2012
Subject: Re: First flight
From: John Kuhfahl <kuhlcouper(at)gmail.com>
Very nice. You should be proud! I am only a re-builder, and still, there is nothing nicer than that "it really flies" moment. John On Tue, Feb 21, 2012 at 9:45 AM, Michael Perez wrote: > That is great news! As Jack said...it is great motivation for us whom are > still building! > > Michael Perez > Karetaker Aero > www.karetakeraero.com > > - > > > * > > * > > -- John Kuhfahl, Lt Col USAF (Ret), President, KUHLCOUPER LLC ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 22, 2012
Subject: Re: Throttle Linkage
From: BRETT PHILLIPS <bphillip(at)shentel.net>
I believe Bill Knight's Air Camper uses a single rod with knobs for both cockpits. Sorry I don't have any pictures, but as I recall it is a very simple arrangement that doesn't seem to get in the way as much as a lever or quadrant can. Brett Phillips ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Throttle Linkage
Date: Feb 22, 2012
That's what Mike Cuy uses as well. Similar to a Taylor Cub. I used the far more advanced J-3 Cub as my model, with a rod between the two throttle quadrants, and a cable from the front quadrant to the carburetor Jack Phillips NX899JP Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of BRETT PHILLIPS Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 7:49 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Throttle Linkage I believe Bill Knight's Air Camper uses a single rod with knobs for both cockpits. Sorry I don't have any pictures, but as I recall it is a very simple arrangement that doesn't seem to get in the way as much as a lever or quadrant can. Brett Phillips

February 01, 2012 - February 22, 2012

Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-la