Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-lk
August 23, 2012 - September 12, 2012
| Subject: | Re: A65 /A75Tach |
| From: | "Jack(at)textors.com" <jack(at)textors.com> |
Steve do you have a diagram of that setup?
Jack Textor
Sent from my iPad
On Aug 23, 2012, at 3:33 PM, steve(at)wotelectronics.com wrote:
> Michael,
>
> One more comment on the Westach electronic signal tach...you do need to ad
d a simple Left/Right switch on the panel to control which mag the tach is m
onitoring. It will work without this switch, but without the switch the tac
h will go dead when you do your runup and switch to one mag. (i.e., it can o
nly monitor one mag at a time). When on "both" this doesn't matter, but whe
n you do your left/right mag check you kill one mag, if that is the one you a
re monitoring the tach goes dead with it. The switch allows you to switch t
he tach signal from one mag to the other so you can compare RPM between the t
wo. I hope that makes sense.
>
> I used shielded wire for the signal wire from the tach to mag. Not sure i
f that was necessary or not, I was doing it to help ensure that I wouldn't g
et radio noise. Be careful with wire routing, unintentionally grounding a w
ire could shut down a mag.
>
> Steve Ruse
> Norman, OK
>
>
>
> On 2012-08-23 11:30, Michael Perez wrote:
>
>> I really like this idea better. Fortunately, it is not too late for me to
switch! If i do, my brand new mechanical tach. and 90 deg. adapter will be
for sale!
>>
>> Michael Perez
>> Pietenpol HINT Videos
>> Karetaker Aero
>> www.karetakeraero.com
>>
>> --- On Thu, 8/23/12, steve(at)wotelectronics.com wrote:
>>
>> From: steve(at)wotelectronics.com
>> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: A65 /A75Tach
>> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>> Date: Thursday, August 23, 2012, 10:34 AM
>>
>> For my A-75 I use a Westach tachometer that just monitors the mag wires f
or RPM. This eliminates the need for a cable to the engine. Better accurac
y and less maintenance. No bouncing, no lubing of cables, etc.
>>
>> I believe this is the model I use, check their documentation to make sure
this is the correct model:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/inpages/tachometer3at32.php
>>
>>
>>
>> Steve Ruse
>> Norman, OK
>>
>> On 2012-08-23 08:40, Michael Perez wrote:
>>
>> I do not have my tach. in hand at the moment, but I can get you the part n
umber, (ACS), if you like. I am also using the 90 deg. adapter from ACS, so t
he rotation can be switched AND it makes running the tach cable easier in th
e small instrument compartment. (My opinion.)
>>
>> Let me know.
>>
>> Michael Perez
>> Pietenpol HINT Videos
>> Karetaker Aero
>> www.karetakeraero.com
>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List-> http://forums.matroni
cs.com
>>
>>
>>
>> http://www.matronics.c=================
=
>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List-> http://forums.matroni
cs.com
>
>
>
>
>
==========================
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>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: A65 /A75Tach |
| From: | John Egan <1smilingmoon(at)gmail.com> |
First, from one of the persons looking for a tach. Thank you all. Good
discussion.
Regarding Westach, I just called there, and learned that the tachs in our
discussion have two wires, one to a ground, and one to a p-lead. Another
option is the buy and install a generator from Westach, which is a module
that attaches the to the existing tach cable port on the engine case, then
attach the tach wire to it. This leaves the mags out of the picture, but
will measure engine rpm with each mag test. The part number for the
generator is "303DGT". I spoke with Pete who answered the phone and who is
the owner. The generator works on either clockwise or counterclockwise
rotation.
I'm on the fence as to which type of tach to use (tradition or Westach).
thanks again,
john
On Thu, Aug 23, 2012 at 4:00 PM, Jack(at)textors.com wrote:
> Steve do you have a diagram of that setup?
>
> Jack Textor
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Aug 23, 2012, at 3:33 PM, steve(at)wotelectronics.com wrote:
>
> Michael,
>
> One more comment on the Westach electronic signal tach...you do need to
> add a simple Left/Right switch on the panel to control which mag the tach
> is monitoring. It will work without this switch, but without the switch
> the tach will go dead when you do your runup and switch to one mag. (i.e.,
> it can only monitor one mag at a time). When on "both" this doesn't
> matter, but when you do your left/right mag check you kill one mag, if that
> is the one you are monitoring the tach goes dead with it. The switch
> allows you to switch the tach signal from one mag to the other so you can
> compare RPM between the two. I hope that makes sense.
>
> I used shielded wire for the signal wire from the tach to mag. Not sure
> if that was necessary or not, I was doing it to help ensure that I wouldn't
> get radio noise. Be careful with wire routing, unintentionally grounding a
> wire could shut down a mag.
>
> Steve Ruse
> Norman, OK
>
>
> On 2012-08-23 11:30, Michael Perez wrote:
>
> I really like this idea better. Fortunately, it is not too late for me
> to switch! If i do, my brand new mechanical tach. and 90 deg. adapter will
> be for sale!
>
> Michael Perez
> Pietenpol HINT Videos
> Karetaker Aero
> www.karetakeraero.com
>
> --- On *Thu, 8/23/12, steve(at)wotelectronics.com *wrote:
>
>
> From: steve(at)wotelectronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: A65 /A75Tach
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Thursday, August 23, 2012, 10:34 AM
>
> For my A-75 I use a Westach tachometer that just monitors the mag wires
> for RPM. This eliminates the need for a cable to the engine. Better
> accuracy and less maintenance. No bouncing, no lubing of cables, etc.
>
> I believe this is the model I use, check their documentation to make sure
> this is the correct model:
>
>
> http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/inpages/tachometer3at32.php
>
>
> Steve Ruse
> Norman, OK
>
> On 2012-08-23 08:40, Michael Perez wrote:
>
> I do not have my tach. in hand at the moment, but I can get you the
> part number, (ACS), if you like. I am also using the 90 deg. adapter from
> ACS, so the rotation can be switched AND it makes running the tach cable
> easier in the small instrument compartment. (My opinion.)
>
> Let me know.
>
> Michael Perez
> Pietenpol HINT Videos
> Karetaker Aero
> www.karetakeraero.com
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List-> http://forums.matronics.com*
>
>
> ** <http://forums.matronics.com/>*http://www.matronics.c================== *
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List-> http://forums.matronics.com*
>
> <http://forums.matronics.com/>
>
>
> <http://forums.matronics.com/>
>
> *
>
> * <http://forums.matronics.com/>
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Horn bend pictures. |
| From: | "dwilson" <marwilson(at)charter.net> |
Here is a picture of my jig for forming the aileron horns. Ken Perkins described
this to me at Brodhead a few years ago. It is a 3/8 inch round steel rod welded
to a 3/4 X 3/4 inch angle iron 10 inches long. I simply hold the jig and
one side of the horn in the vise and bend the leading edge of the horn around
the rod with a hammer as shown in Jim's photo. I bent one up this morning just
for the picture. This jig is so handy I also have a 1/2, 5/8,3/4, and 1 inch
version. Note that I do not bend the tabs out. I weld a piece of channel
in the opening so that the bolts run horizontally between the elevator and
horizontal stabilizer. This one took about 10 minutes to cut and form. Any one
have a tig welder...
Dan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=381649#381649
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/horn_jig_195.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Bending the aileron stick horn... |
I used a- brake, by hand, the brake was not powered in any way.
Michael Perez
Pietenpol HINT Videos
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: A65 /A75Tach |
Thanks for the added intel. I would never have thought of that until I star
ted the installation. (switching between the mags.) Did you figure this out
, or did the tach. instructions tell you?
-
If you have pictures, I would be interested in seeing the tach, wiring and
the "switch" switch.
Michael Perez
Pietenpol HINT Videos
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
--- On Thu, 8/23/12, steve(at)wotelectronics.com wr
ote:
From: steve(at)wotelectronics.com <steve(at)wotelectronics.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: A65 /A75Tach
Date: Thursday, August 23, 2012, 4:33 PM
Michael,
One more comment on the Westach electronic signal tach...you do need to add
a simple Left/Right switch on the panel to control which mag the tach is m
onitoring. -It will work without this switch, but without the switch the
tach will go dead when you do your runup and switch to one mag. -(i.e., i
t can only monitor one mag at a time). -When on "both" this doesn't matte
r, but when you do your left/right mag check you kill one mag, if that is t
he one you are monitoring the tach goes dead with it. -The switch allows
you to switch the tach signal from one mag to the other so you can compare
RPM between the two. -I hope that makes sense.
I used shielded wire for the signal wire from the tach to mag. -Not sure
if that was necessary or not, I was doing it to help ensure that I wouldn't
get radio noise. -Be careful with wire routing, unintentionally groundin
g a wire could shut down a mag.
Steve Ruse
Norman, OK-
-
On 2012-08-23 11:30, Michael Perez wrote:
I really like this idea better. Fortunately, it is not too late for me to s
witch!- If i do, my brand new mechanical tach. and 90 deg. adapter will b
e for sale!
Michael Perez
Pietenpol HINT Videos
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
--- On Thu, 8/23/12, steve(at)wotelectronics.com wrote:
From: steve(at)wotelectronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: A65 /A75Tach
Date: Thursday, August 23, 2012, 10:34 AM
For my A-75 I use a Westach tachometer that just monitors the mag wires for
RPM. -This eliminates the need for a cable to the engine. -Better accu
racy and less maintenance. -No bouncing, no lubing of cables, etc.
I believe this is the model I use, check their-documentation-to make su
re this is the correct model:
-
-
-
-
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/inpages/tachometer3at32.php
-
Steve Ruse
Norman, OK
On 2012-08-23 08:40, Michael Perez wrote:
I do not have my tach. in hand at the moment, but I can get you the part nu
mber, (ACS), if you like. I am also using the 90 deg. adapter from ACS, so
the rotation can be switched AND it makes running the tach cable easier in
the small instrument compartment. (My opinion.)
Let me know.
Michael Perez
Pietenpol HINT Videos
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.comhttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List-> ht
tp://forums.matronics.com
-
-http://www.matronics.c================
== http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List-> http://forums.ma
tronics.com| Date: | Aug 23, 2012 |
| From: | shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Brodhead Report - Late |
Kevin, If I make it up to Brodhead next year-we'll stuff your ass in 92GB
and go flying.- I'm glad to hear you are starting to plan the new build.
- If I run past any extra corvair pieces parts that we don't need I will
let you know.- NOW HEAL UP AND GET BACK TO WORK!
-
Shad
don't archive
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Horn bend pictures. |
| From: | "Mark Roberts" <mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com> |
Jim and Dan:
Many thanks for the pictures! And no, that wasn't redundant for me... this is the
mental hurdle I am getting over: learning to work with metal.
So, the more pics and advice I get at this stage the better.
I am on my way now to borrow a torch from a friend, and I hope my lovely wife will
allow me to go rent tanks tomorrow, but I fear she's hit her limit on spending
right now (as I AM still officially unemployed... ).
Thanks again!
Mark
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=381656#381656
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Schreiber <lmforge(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | eyebrows for Corvair |
I am getting ready to make eyebrows for my corvair and was wondering how
high the front of the eyebrow should be for efficient cooling. Those of
you that have flying corvairs, how high did you go. I was looking at the
eyebrows on a friends A65 powered J3 cub and the cross-sectional area on
his eyebrows are about 28 sq. in. That would make the eyebrow on a
corvair installation about 4-1/2 inches high. Does that seem about right.
Rick Schreiber
Valparaiso IN
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: eyebrows for Corvair |
| From: | Ken Bickers <bickers.ken(at)gmail.com> |
I'm not to this stage just yet, but look forward to the suggestions
and advice. Ken
On Fri, Aug 24, 2012 at 7:04 AM, Rick Schreiber wrote:
>
> I am getting ready to make eyebrows for my corvair and was wondering how
> high the front of the eyebrow should be for efficient cooling. Those of you
> that have flying corvairs, how high did you go. I was looking at the
> eyebrows on a friends A65 powered J3 cub and the cross-sectional area on his
> eyebrows are about 28 sq. in. That would make the eyebrow on a corvair
> installation about 4-1/2 inches high. Does that seem about right.
>
> Rick Schreiber
> Valparaiso IN
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Gladys Ingles |
| From: | "dgaldrich" <dgaldrich(at)embarqmail.com> |
One of the YouTube posters pointed out that in the first clip there was no one
in the back seat but yet there was footage taken from there. Movie cameras back
then were a rare commodity so shots from two different airplanes required
landing and transfer so the performance was, most likely, a publicity stunt.
Regardless of the setup, it was still a spectacular feat of bravery (or stupidity).
A neat clip, all things considered.
Dave
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=381686#381686
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Horn bend pictures. |
FYI, the bend I made does not need to be down the middle, biased towards the leading
edge will yield a more "airfoil" shape.
Michael Perez
Pietenpol HINT Videos
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: eyebrows for Corvair |
| From: | "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
Rick;
You can get an idea of intake area by looking at William Wynne's setup on his Piet
as a starting point. Some pictures here:
http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/WWPiet.html
This one is a good starting point for two reasons: (1) his scoops were rectangular,
so you should be able to estimate the intake area pretty easily, and (2)
his airplane was based in Florida, so if the cooling worked there, it should work
anywhere.
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford/Ashland, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=381698#381698
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Woodflier(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: A65-75 Tach discussion |
I can add a bit of experience with the traditional mechanical tach and the
90 degree drive. I have 135 hours on my Piet in 15 months, and am on my
third angle drive. I think I have the problem licked now, but there appears to
be a delicate balance between undergreasing and overgreasing the tach
drive. And, the lubrication of the cable is also an issue. I found an excellent
speedometer cable lube at the local NAPA auto parts store that is doing
the job on the cable. It's a light machine oil with graphite in it. Nasty if
it leaks out but very effective lube and seems to penetrate well. I have an
84" cable with a lot of bends. Taking the cable loose at both ends
periodically and dripping in some cable lube is a part of my regular maintenance
program now.
I think I made the mistake of putting addtional white litium grease in the
angle drive, which eventually caused more drag in the drive than
lubrication, especially when it's cold. The third drive was installed about 45
hours
ago, and I have't had the needle bobbing like I did with the previous
drives. When I installed the latest one, I added no additiona grease beyond what
came in the unit.
Long story short, if I knew when I was installing the instruments what I
know now, I would have gone with the Westach tachometer, particularly the
one that uses the generator off the tach drive on the engine.
If this angle drive gives me trouble in the future, that's the direction
I'm going in.
Matt Paxton
NX629ML
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: eyebrows for Corvair |
| From: | "kevinpurtee" <kevin.purtee(at)us.army.mil> |
Hi Rick - I think I did what Oscar said & based it on WW's intakes. 4.5 inches
sounds about right. The highest CHT I ever saw was 360.
--------
Kevin "Axel" Purtee
NX899KP
Austin/San Marcos, TX
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=381703#381703
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | a little flying---of possible interest |
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_y-zSvzGTs
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: eyebrows for Corvair |
| From: | Robert Bush <rbush96589(at)aol.com> |
Hi Rick,
I'm at the hangar changing my oil at the moment and don't have a tape measure
but if I take a dollar bill and stand it on end with the end flat on the head
where the old cooling shroud bolts on .the top of my eyebrow is at the (R) on
the phrase one dollar under George Washington's picture. If that doesn't make
since I think 4 to 4 1/2 is about right. Like Kevin my temps at cruise run around
275 to 300 and on climb out on a hot day 350 to 375
Randy Bush
P S
Kevin I meant every word
Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 24, 2012, at 8:04 AM, Rick Schreiber wrote:
>
> I am getting ready to make eyebrows for my corvair and was wondering how high
the front of the eyebrow should be for efficient cooling. Those of you that have
flying corvairs, how high did you go. I was looking at the eyebrows on a friends
A65 powered J3 cub and the cross-sectional area on his eyebrows are about
28 sq. in. That would make the eyebrow on a corvair installation about 4-1/2
inches high. Does that seem about right.
>
> Rick Schreiber
> Valparaiso IN
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Operation Axel complete! |
| From: | Operation Axel <operationaxel(at)gmail.com> |
Hello good people,
I am pleased to announce the results of Operation Axel! Your patience in
awaiting this announcement is appreciated (I was waiting to receive and
process the remaining contributions I knew were still on the way).
Thank you on behalf of the organizers of Operation Axel, and most
importantly on behalf of Kevin and Shelley, for the outpouring of support,
well-wishes, prayers, and overall good karma that you all so generously
gave. I am most excited to announce that due to the efforts of 46
contributors we have collected a grand total of $4,025.52! Once again, this
unique brotherhood (and sisterhood) of Pietenpol builders, pilots,
enthusiasts, and friends has demonstrated how fortunate we all are to be a
part of it. Thank you all so very much!
I have tonight issued the check electronically from the BoA account used to
collect the contributions, and Kevin and Shelley should see it in their
mailbox in about a week. I have included a screencap of the payment
confirmation below. Since Operation Axel has drawn to a close, we are no
longer asking for contributions. If any other contributions do show up in
my mailbox after this point they will still be generously accepted and
processed as before.
Thank you all again, and have a great weekend!
Ryan
[image: Inline image 1]
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | a little flying---of possible interest |
| From: | Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |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________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Operation Axel complete! |
| From: | Amsafetyc <amsafetyc(at)aol.com> |
Nice job Ryan and thank you all for your again generous gifts on behalf of another
one of our own. Thanks again I'm sure all contributions will be put to good
use.
Thank you all, my friends your generosity and support is overwhelming.
John
Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 24, 2012, at 9:58 PM, Operation Axel wrote:
> Hello good people,
>
> I am pleased to announce the results of Operation Axel! Your patience in awaiting
this announcement is appreciated (I was waiting to receive and process the
remaining contributions I knew were still on the way).
>
> Thank you on behalf of the organizers of Operation Axel, and most importantly
on behalf of Kevin and Shelley, for the outpouring of support, well-wishes, prayers,
and overall good karma that you all so generously gave. I am most excited
to announce that due to the efforts of 46 contributors we have collected a
grand total of $4,025.52! Once again, this unique brotherhood (and sisterhood)
of Pietenpol builders, pilots, enthusiasts, and friends has demonstrated how
fortunate we all are to be a part of it. Thank you all so very much!
>
> I have tonight issued the check electronically from the BoA account used to collect
the contributions, and Kevin and Shelley should see it in their mailbox
in about a week. I have included a screencap of the payment confirmation below.
Since Operation Axel has drawn to a close, we are no longer asking for contributions.
If any other contributions do show up in my mailbox after this point
they will still be generously accepted and processed as before.
>
> Thank you all again, and have a great weekend!
>
> Ryan
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Total time to build |
Just reviewing the records=85
According to KitLog Pro, at which I tried to be very diligent in my
entries,
Total Time was 1500.5 hrs.
That means it cost me just a little over $10/hr to work on the plane.
Breaking it down a little further=85 I spent an average of 6.4 hrs/week
(4 =BD
yrs, almost to the day).
Gary Boothe
NX308MB
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | eyebrows for Corvair |
Rick / Ken,
I used the Van der Voort plans, and the attached bead wire process. I'll
have to check tomorrow to be sure, but I think I increased the forward
dimension by 2". That makes the ears stand a little taller. I also used .025
6061, 'cuz that's what I had on hand. WHAT A WORKOUT! Those ears took 40 hrs
to make! Next time, I will use Dead Soft. I'll have cooling info in a couple
days...but I also have a Niagra Cooler that has ram air introduced at the
back of the cooling ear.
Gary Boothe
NX308MB
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ken Bickers
Sent: Friday, August 24, 2012 6:26 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: eyebrows for Corvair
-->
I'm not to this stage just yet, but look forward to the suggestions and
advice. Ken
On Fri, Aug 24, 2012 at 7:04 AM, Rick Schreiber
wrote:
> -->
>
> I am getting ready to make eyebrows for my corvair and was wondering
> how high the front of the eyebrow should be for efficient cooling.
> Those of you that have flying corvairs, how high did you go. I was
> looking at the eyebrows on a friends A65 powered J3 cub and the
> cross-sectional area on his eyebrows are about 28 sq. in. That would
> make the eyebrow on a corvair installation about 4-1/2 inches high. Does
that seem about right.
>
> Rick Schreiber
> Valparaiso IN
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Operation Axel complete! |
Good job, Ryan!
Gary Boothe
NX308MB
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Operation
Axel
Sent: Friday, August 24, 2012 6:58 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Operation Axel complete!
Hello good people,
I am pleased to announce the results of Operation Axel! Your patience in
awaiting this announcement is appreciated (I was waiting to receive and
process the remaining contributions I knew were still on the way).
Thank you on behalf of the organizers of Operation Axel, and most
importantly on behalf of Kevin and Shelley, for the outpouring of support,
well-wishes, prayers, and overall good karma that you all so generously
gave. I am most excited to announce that due to the efforts of 46
contributors we have collected a grand total of $4,025.52! Once again, this
unique brotherhood (and sisterhood) of Pietenpol builders, pilots,
enthusiasts, and friends has demonstrated how fortunate we all are to be a
part of it. Thank you all so very much!
I have tonight issued the check electronically from the BoA account used to
collect the contributions, and Kevin and Shelley should see it in their
mailbox in about a week. I have included a screencap of the payment
confirmation below. Since Operation Axel has drawn to a close, we are no
longer asking for contributions. If any other contributions do show up in my
mailbox after this point they will still be generously accepted and
processed as before.
Thank you all again, and have a great weekend!
Ryan
Inline image 1
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Operation Axel complete! |
| From: | helspersew(at)aol.com |
To all those who gave and all those who gave well wishes many thanks for ma
king this effort a success. I am sure this will be a blessing to Kevin and
Shelley. This is a great and generous group of people I am proud to be a pa
rt. A special thanks to Ryan Mueller for doing all the work. Good job!
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Operation Axel complete! |
So who was the cheapskate that contributed 52=A2? Everybody else
apparently
contributed some kind of multiple of $25.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Operation
Axel
Sent: Friday, August 24, 2012 9:58 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Operation Axel complete!
Hello good people,
I am pleased to announce the results of Operation Axel! Your patience in
awaiting this announcement is appreciated (I was waiting to receive and
process the remaining contributions I knew were still on the way).
Thank you on behalf of the organizers of Operation Axel, and most
importantly on behalf of Kevin and Shelley, for the outpouring of
support,
well-wishes, prayers, and overall good karma that you all so generously
gave. I am most excited to announce that due to the efforts of 46
contributors we have collected a grand total of $4,025.52! Once again,
this
unique brotherhood (and sisterhood) of Pietenpol builders, pilots,
enthusiasts, and friends has demonstrated how fortunate we all are to be
a
part of it. Thank you all so very much!
I have tonight issued the check electronically from the BoA account used
to
collect the contributions, and Kevin and Shelley should see it in their
mailbox in about a week. I have included a screencap of the payment
confirmation below. Since Operation Axel has drawn to a close, we are no
longer asking for contributions. If any other contributions do show up
in my
mailbox after this point they will still be generously accepted and
processed as before.
Thank you all again, and have a great weekend!
Ryan
Inline image 1
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Operation Axel complete! |
Yes Ryan, Thank you for giving us all the means to give back to friends in
need.- This is one outstanding group of people.
-
Shad
--- On Sat, 8/25/12, helspersew(at)aol.com wrote:
From: helspersew(at)aol.com <helspersew(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Operation Axel complete!
Date: Saturday, August 25, 2012, 7:29 AM
-
To all those who gave and all those who gave well wishes many thanks for ma
king this effort a success. I am sure this will be a blessing to Kevin and
Shelley. This is a great and generous group of people I am proud to be a pa
rt. A special thanks to Ryan Mueller for doing all the work. Good job!
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | MERFI fly-in today |
I am getting ready to blast off for MERFI in Urbana OH in 30 min, hope to s
ee another piet or two over there.- I will be flying in with a C-140, and
Spacewalker, if they will slow down.
-
Shad
don't archive
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Operation Axel complete! |
| From: | Faith Maltese Kuri <faips(at)aol.com> |
Great job Ryan. Well handled and communicated. Maybe I'll make you the CFO
of my company. LOL
Faith
-----Original Message-----
From: Operation Axel <operationaxel(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Fri, Aug 24, 2012 11:50 pm
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Operation Axel complete!
Hello good people,
I am pleased to announce the results of Operation Axel! Your patience in aw
aiting this announcement is appreciated (I was waiting to receive and proce
ss the remaining contributions I knew were still on the way).
Thank you on behalf of the organizers of Operation Axel, and most important
ly on behalf of Kevin and Shelley, for the outpouring of support, well-wish
es, prayers, and overall good karma that you all so generously gave. I am m
ost excited to announce that due to the efforts of 46 contributors we have
collected a grand total of $4,025.52! Once again, this unique brotherhood (
and sisterhood) of Pietenpol builders, pilots, enthusiasts, and friends has
demonstrated how fortunate we all are to be a part of it. Thank you all so
very much!
I have tonight issued the check electronically from the BoA account used to
collect the contributions, and Kevin and Shelley should see it in their ma
ilbox in about a week. I have included a screencap of the payment confirmat
ion below. Since Operation Axel has drawn to a close, we are no longer aski
ng for contributions. If any other contributions do show up in my mailbox a
fter this point they will still be generously accepted and processed as bef
ore.
Thank you all again, and have a great weekend!
Ryan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Princell <weprincell(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Operation Axel complete! |
Hi Ryan:
What an awesome group of people. Thanks for everything you did to make this
a success.
Bill -
Sent: Fri, Aug 24, 2012 11:50 pm
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Operation Axel complete!
>
> Hello good people,
>
> I am pleased to announce the results of Operation Axel! Your patience in
> awaiting this announcement is appreciated (I was waiting to receive and
> process the remaining contributions I knew were still on the way).
>
> Thank you on behalf of the organizers of Operation Axel, and most
> importantly on behalf of Kevin and Shelley, for the outpouring of support,
> well-wishes, prayers, and overall good karma that you all so generously
> gave. I am most excited to announce that due to the efforts of 46
> contributors we have collected a grand total of $4,025.52! Once again, this
> unique brotherhood (and sisterhood) of Pietenpol builders, pilots,
> enthusiasts, and friends has demonstrated how fortunate we all are to be a
> part of it. Thank you all so very much!
>
> I have tonight issued the check electronically from the BoA account used
> to collect the contributions, and Kevin and Shelley should see it in their
> mailbox in about a week. I have included a screencap of the payment
> confirmation below. Since Operation Axel has drawn to a close, we are no
> longer asking for contributions. If any other contributions do show up in
> my mailbox after this point they will still be generously accepted and
> processed as before.
>
> Thank you all again, and have a great weekend!
>
> Ryan
>
>
> [image: Inline image 1]
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Total time to build |
| From: | "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
Jack; considering what you say you have in materials cost in your airplane and
the fact that I bought Scout from Corky essentially new for $15,000, that means
Corky and McKenley built it for free and Edwin did all the test flights for
free. I think I got a good deal ;o)
Moral of the story: buying a completed and flying Piet is a heckuva bargain. They
are just SO much fun to build though!
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford/Ashland, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=381798#381798
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | FW: First Flight |
List,
I just posted this to family, and personal friends. To this list, I wish to
add the following:
I have not yet flown it, myself, for various reasons. Test pilot, Roy
Richardson, flying a Pietenpol for the first time, reported that it flies
beautifully, even hands off; this despite what we thought was a
malfunctioning ASI. Since he was unsure of his airspeed (turns out he was
cruising at 65mph), he tended to be a little conservative, and the engine
being a little tight, oil temp was high.
More later, as I work thru some stuff.
Gary Boothe
NX308MB
From: Gary Boothe [mailto:gboothe5(at)comcast.net]
Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2012 2:59 PM
Reinthaler; 'wreinthaler(at)lwsupply.com'; Mary Neal; Natalie Boothe
(flygirl5479(at)comcast.net); randy.farmer (randy.farmer(at)att.net); Richard
Vetterli; Ryan Boothe; Sara Peitzmeier; Vicki Boothe; Woodymsi(at)aol.com;
WilliamTCA(at)aol.com; whotchkiss(at)lwsupply.com; 'Brett Henry (Dryvit)'
(brett.henry(at)dryvit.com); 'mbrand(at)lwsupply.com'; 'tstokely(at)lwsupply.com';
cpaterson(at)lwsupply.com; 'anelms(at)lwsupply.com'; 'gblanco(at)lwsupply.com'; 'Mike
Studer'; Mike Weaver; lrtiger(at)sbcglobal.net; 'Mark.clough(at)fellertusa.com';
Kevin McDonald; 'jake(at)lightcreteinc.com'; 'cfagundes(at)lwsupply.com';
'smwaud(at)gmail.com'
Subject: First Flight
Family & Friends (If you ever expressed an interest in my project, even if
you faked interest, you made it to the Family & Friends List!..and, if you
have received this circuitously, and think you should have been on the list,
my apologies!),
Here is a picture taken in 1972 at a fly-in/airshow in Madera, Ca., where I
had flown my recently restored Taylorcraft BC12-D (inset).
I was 19 years old.and hung-over for the first time (its own bittersweet
story!). Bad as my headache was, I wasn't in such poor shape that I couldn't
recognize the simple beauty of a Pietenpol, telling myself, "Someday." For
those who may not know, this airplane was designed by Bernard Pietenpol in
1927. It has always only existed as a set of plans, by which aviation
experimenters have been building Pietenpols around the world for the past
80+ years.
Fast forward 40 years, after realizing the futility of staying in aviation
and raising a family since 1985, my dream of building & flying that simple
little airplane has been finally fulfilled! This airplane is a tribute to my
father, a die-hard do-it-yourselfer. The FAA 'N' number, NX308MB, contains
his initials, along with the month and year of his passing, which, not
without coincidence, is the month and year that I began work on the
Pietenpol. I miss you, Dad.
FAA airworthiness inspection & certificate was granted on August 8, 2012,
and first flight was today, August 25, 2012, by test pilot, Roy Richardson,
without incident. Construction is wood and fabric, powered by a Corvair
engine and my own hand-carved prop! This initial flight will be followed by
40 hours of solo test flight where I will establish the parameters of the
aircraft operation (which is a fancy way of saying, "Stay in the air, when
you want to.Land, when & where you want to.)
Gary Boothe
NX308MB
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: FW: First Flight |
Congratulations Gary!
Ryan Mueller
rmueller23(at)gmail.com
On Aug 25, 2012, at 5:09 PM, "Gary Boothe" wrote:
> List,
>
> I just posted this to family, and personal friends. To this list, I
wish to add the following:
>
> I have not yet flown it, myself, for various reasons. Test pilot, Roy
Richardson, flying a Pietenpol for the first time, reported that it
flies beautifully, even hands off; this despite what we thought was a
malfunctioning ASI. Since he was unsure of his airspeed (turns out he
was cruising at 65mph), he tended to be a little conservative, and the
engine being a little tight, oil temp was high.
>
> More later, as I work thru some stuff=85
>
> Gary Boothe
> NX308MB
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Boyer <boyerjrb(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: FW: First Flight |
Congratulations Gary; you have a beautiful Piet. Frazier Lake will=C2- be
neat this year with three local Piets; yours, Mike and Vics and Charlies.
Cheers,
Jim B.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: FW: First Flight |
| From: | Ken Bickers <bickers.ken(at)gmail.com> |
What a special day. Congratulations!!!
On Aug 25, 2012, at 4:09 PM, "Gary Boothe" wrote:
> List,
>
> I just posted this to family, and personal friends. To this list, I wish t
o add the following:
>
> I have not yet flown it, myself, for various reasons. Test pilot, Roy Rich
ardson, flying a Pietenpol for the first time, reported that it flies beauti
fully, even hands off; this despite what we thought was a malfunctioning ASI
. Since he was unsure of his airspeed (turns out he was cruising at 65mph), h
e tended to be a little conservative, and the engine being a little tight, o
il temp was high.
>
> More later, as I work thru some stuff
>
> Gary Boothe
> NX308MB
>
> From: Gary Boothe [mailto:gboothe5(at)comcast.net]
> Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2012 2:59 PM
> To: Gail Boothe; Jan Bagnall; Jeff Zember; Jorge Busso; Leigh Ann Reinthal
er; 'wreinthaler(at)lwsupply.com'; Mary Neal; Natalie Boothe (flygirl5479@comca
st.net); randy.farmer (randy.farmer(at)att.net); Richard Vetterli; Ryan Boothe;
Sara Peitzmeier; Vicki Boothe; Woodymsi(at)aol.com; WilliamTCA(at)aol.com; whotch
kiss(at)lwsupply.com; 'Brett Henry (Dryvit)' (brett.henry(at)dryvit.com); 'mbrand@
lwsupply.com'; 'tstokely(at)lwsupply.com'; cpaterson(at)lwsupply.com; 'anelms@lwsu
pply.com'; 'gblanco(at)lwsupply.com'; 'Mike Studer'; Mike Weaver; lrtiger@sbcgl
obal.net; 'Mark.clough(at)fellertusa.com'; Kevin McDonald; 'jake(at)lightcreteinc.
com'; 'cfagundes(at)lwsupply.com'; 'smwaud(at)gmail.com'
> Subject: First Flight
>
> Family & Friends (If you ever expressed an interest in my project, even if
you faked interest, you made it to the Family & Friends List!..and, if you h
ave received this circuitously, and think you should have been on the list, m
y apologies!),
>
>
>
> Here is a picture taken in 1972 at a fly-in/airshow in Madera, Ca., where I
had flown my recently restored Taylorcraft BC12-D (inset).
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I was 19 years oldand hung-over for the first time (its own bitte
rsweet story!). Bad as my headache was, I wasn=99t in such poor shape t
hat I couldn=99t recognize the simple beauty of a Pietenpol, telling m
yself, =9CSomeday=9D For those who may not know, this a
irplane was designed by Bernard Pietenpol in 1927. It has always only existe
d as a set of plans, by which aviation experimenters have been building Piet
enpols around the world for the past 80+ years.
>
> Fast forward 40 years, after realizing the futility of staying in aviation
and raising a family since 1985, my dream of building & flying that simple l
ittle airplane has been finally fulfilled! This airplane is a tribute to my f
ather, a die-hard do-it-yourselfer. The FAA =98N=99 number, NX30
8MB, contains his initials, along with the month and year of his passing, wh
ich, not without coincidence, is the month and year that I began work on the
Pietenpol. I miss you, Dad
>
>
>
> FAA airworthiness inspection & certificate was granted on August 8, 2012,
and first flight was today, August 25, 2012, by test pilot, Roy Richardson,
without incident. Construction is wood and fabric, powered by a Corvair eng
ine and my own hand-carved prop! This initial flight will be followed by 40 h
ours of solo test flight where I will establish the parameters of the aircra
ft operation (which is a fancy way of saying, =9CStay in the air, when
you want toLand, when & where you want to.)
>
> Gary Boothe
> NX308MB
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: FW: First Flight |
| From: | Robert Bush <rbush96589(at)aol.com> |
Congratulations Gary. It only gets better from here!
Randy Bush
NX294RB
Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 25, 2012, at 5:17 PM, Ryan Mueller wrote:
> Congratulations Gary!
>
> Ryan Mueller
> rmueller23(at)gmail.com
>
>
>
>
> On Aug 25, 2012, at 5:09 PM, "Gary Boothe" wrote:
>
>> List,
>>
>> I just posted this to family, and personal friends. To this list, I wish t
o add the following:
>>
>> I have not yet flown it, myself, for various reasons. Test pilot, Roy Ric
hardson, flying a Pietenpol for the first time, reported that it flies beaut
ifully, even hands off; this despite what we thought was a malfunctioning AS
I. Since he was unsure of his airspeed (turns out he was cruising at 65mph),
he tended to be a little conservative, and the engine being a little tight,
oil temp was high.
>>
>> More later, as I work thru some stuff
>>
>> Gary Boothe
>> NX308MB
>
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | FW: First Flight |
Thanks, Randy! I have a question for you, but can=99t see your
email herecan you contact me off-list? Gboothe5(at)comcast.net
Gary Boothe
NX308MB
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert
Bush
Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2012 4:16 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: FW: First Flight
Congratulations Gary. It only gets better from here!
Randy Bush
NX294RB
Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 25, 2012, at 5:17 PM, Ryan Mueller wrote:
Congratulations Gary!
Ryan Mueller
rmueller23(at)gmail.com
On Aug 25, 2012, at 5:09 PM, "Gary Boothe" wrote:
List,
I just posted this to family, and personal friends. To this list, I wish
to add the following:
I have not yet flown it, myself, for various reasons. Test pilot, Roy
Richardson, flying a Pietenpol for the first time, reported that it
flies beautifully, even hands off; this despite what we thought was a
malfunctioning ASI. Since he was unsure of his airspeed (turns out he
was cruising at 65mph), he tended to be a little conservative, and the
engine being a little tight, oil temp was high.
More later, as I work thru some stuff
Gary Boothe
NX308MB
=========
>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
=========
cs.com
=========
matronics.com/contribution
=========
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | First Flight of NX308MB |
Better video is forth coming from another source.
http://youtu.be/KE1lDlGO_P8
Gary Boothe
NX308MB
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ryan Mueller <operationaxel(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Operation Axel complete! |
Spoke too soon=85.47 contributors and $4,275.52. :)
Thanks everyone!
Ryan Mueller
operationaxel(at)gmail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Groah <dskogrover(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: FW: First Flight |
Awesome!...=C2- I'm so excited for you.=C2- It actually flies!=C2- I
cant' wait to see it for myself.=0A=0A=0AMike Groah=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A_________
_______________________=0A From: Gary Boothe <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>=0ATo: p
ietenpol-list(at)matronics.com =0ASent: Saturday, August 25, 2012 3:09 PM=0ASu
bject: Pietenpol-List: FW: First Flight=0A =0A=0AList,=0A=C2-=0AI just po
sted this to family, and personal friends. To this list, I wish to add the
following:=0A=C2-=0AI have not yet flown it, myself, for various reasons.
Test pilot, Roy Richardson, flying a Pietenpol for the first time, reporte
d that it flies beautifully, even hands off; this despite what we thought w
as a malfunctioning ASI. Since he was unsure of his airspeed (turns out he
was cruising at 65mph), he tended to be a little conservative, and the engi
ne being a little tight, oil temp was high. =0A=C2-=0AMore later, as I wo
rk thru some stuff=0A=C2-=0AGary Boothe=0ANX308MB=0A=C2-=0AFro
m:Gary Boothe [mailto:gboothe5(at)comcast.net] =0ASent: Saturday, August 25, 2
012 2:59 PM=0ATo: Gail Boothe; Jan Bagnall; Jeff Zember; Jorge Busso; Leigh
Ann Reinthaler; 'wreinthaler(at)lwsupply.com'; Mary Neal; Natalie Boothe (fly
girl5479(at)comcast.net); randy.farmer (randy.farmer(at)att.net); Richard Vetterl
i; Ryan Boothe; Sara Peitzmeier; Vicki Boothe; Woodymsi(at)aol.com; WilliamTCA
(at)aol.com; whotchkiss(at)lwsupply.com; 'Brett Henry (Dryvit)' (brett.henry(at)dryv
it.com); 'mbrand(at)lwsupply.com'; 'tstokely(at)lwsupply.com'; cpaterson@lwsupply
.com; 'anelms(at)lwsupply.com'; 'gblanco(at)lwsupply.com'; 'Mike Studer'; Mike We
aver; lrtiger(at)sbcglobal.net; 'Mark.clough(at)fellertusa.com'; Kevin McDonald;
'jake(at)lightcreteinc.com'; 'cfagundes(at)lwsupply.com'; 'smwaud(at)gmail.com'=0ASu
bject: First Flight=0A=C2-=0AFamily & Friends (If you ever expressed an i
nterest in my project, even if you faked interest, you made it to the Famil
y & Friends List!..and, if you have received this circuitously, and think y
ou should have been on the list, my apologies!), =0A=C2-=0A=C2-=0A=C2
-=0AHere is a picture taken in 1972 at a fly-in/airshow in Madera, Ca., w
here I had flown my recently restored Taylorcraft BC12-D (inset). =0A=C2-
=0A=C2-=0A=C2-=0A=C2-=0A=C2-=0A=C2-=0A=C2-=0A=C2-=0A=C2-
=0A=C2-=0A=C2-=0A=C2-=0A=C2-=0A=C2-=0A=C2-=0A=C2-=0A=C2-=0A
=C2-=0A=C2-=0A=0AI was 19 years oldand hung-over for the first
time (its own bittersweet story!). Bad as my headache was, I wasn=99
t in such poor shape that I couldn=99t recognize the simple beauty of
a Pietenpol, telling myself, =9CSomeday=9D For those
who may not know, this airplane was designed by Bernard Pietenpol in 1927.
It has always only existed as a set of plans, by which aviation experimente
rs have been building Pietenpols around the world for the past 80+ years.
=0A=C2-=0AFast forward 40 years, after realizing the futility of staying
in aviation and raising a family since 1985, my dream of building & flying
that simple little airplane has been finally fulfilled! This airplane is a
tribute to my father, a die-hard do-it-yourselfer. The FAA =98N
=99 number, NX308MB, contains his initials, along with the month and year o
f his passing, which, not without coincidence, is the month and year that I
began work on the Pietenpol. I miss you, Dad=0A=C2-=0A=C2-=0A
FAA=C2- airworthiness inspection & certificate was granted on August 8, 2
012, and first flight was today, August 25, 2012, by test pilot, Roy Richar
dson, without incident. Construction is wood and fabric, powered by a Corva
ir engine and my own hand-carved prop! This initial flight will be followed
by 40 hours of solo test flight where I will establish the parameters of t
he aircraft operation (which is a fancy way of saying, =9CStay in the
air, when you want toLand, when & where you want to.)=0A=C2-=0A
Gary Boothe=0ANX308MB
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Darrel Jones <wd6bor(at)vom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: FW: First Flight |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Darrel Jones <wd6bor(at)vom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: FW: First Flight |
Gary,
As Homer Simpson would say, "Woo-hoo!" Break out the donuts!
Congratulations!
Darrel
(Second try. Looks like the first didn't go through)
On 8/25/2012 3:09 PM, Gary Boothe wrote:
>
> List,
>
> I just posted this to family, and personal friends. To this list, I
> wish to add the following:
>
> I have not yet flown it, myself, for various reasons. Test pilot, Roy
> Richardson, flying a Pietenpol for the first time, reported that it
> flies beautifully, even hands off; this despite what we thought was a
> malfunctioning ASI. Since he was unsure of his airspeed (turns out he
> was cruising at 65mph), he tended to be a little conservative, and the
> engine being a little tight, oil temp was high.
>
> More later, as I work thru some stuff...
>
> Gary Boothe
>
> NX308MB
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: First Flight of NX308MB |
| From: | "dwilson" <marwilson(at)charter.net> |
Gary. Way to go! Looks and sounds real nice my friend. She is a fine ship as
Bernie would say!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=381833#381833
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Schreiber <lmforge(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Total time to build |
For me as well as others I'm sure, the building journey was fantastic.
Could I have bought a project or a completed Piet and saved my labor,
certainly but that was not the point. I knew going into this project
that my labor was for free, I was building a plane for the sheer
enjoyment. Now that the the project is coming to an end after roughly
ten years, I would like to start on another.
Regards,
Rick Schreiber
Valparaiso, IN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Schreiber <lmforge(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: FW: First Flight |
Wow Gary!.......
I cant even imagine how this first flight felt. Congratulations!
Regards,
Rick Schreiber
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Greenlee" <jmgreenlee(at)sbcglobal.net> |
Hello all,
When I originally built the Pietenpol, I used a manual swaging tool - I
think it is called a Swage-it. It is the one where you tighten some bolts
to crush the sleeves. I am interested in getting a bolt-cutter style
swaging tool. The only sizes I should need to swage are 1/16, 3/32, and
1/8. I see a lot of previously owned Nicopress tools on ebay. However, I
do not know how to identify the correct model number to do what I want to
do. These should be relatively plentiful as they are really a telephone
company technology. Does anybody have any information and experience on
which model to get?
Thanks!
JMG
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Schreiber <lmforge(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | corvair eyebrows |
Thanks to Oscar, Kevin, Randy and Gary for the response about the size
of the eyebrows for a corvair installation. It looks like 4.5 inches is
about the right height.
Rick Schreiber
Valparaiso, IN
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Total time to build |
| From: | Ken Bickers <bickers.ken(at)gmail.com> |
12 step program
... my name is Rick. It has be three days and six hours since I last
cut a gusset.
On Sat, Aug 25, 2012 at 7:47 PM, Rick Schreiber wrote:
>
> For me as well as others I'm sure, the building journey was fantastic. Could
> I have bought a project or a completed Piet and saved my labor, certainly
> but that was not the point. I knew going into this project that my labor was
> for free, I was building a plane for the sheer enjoyment. Now that the the
> project is coming to an end after roughly ten years, I would like to start
> on another.
>
> Regards,
> Rick Schreiber
> Valparaiso, IN
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB" <steven.d.dortch(at)us.army.mil> |
| Subject: | Tail wheel check out. |
Well, this morning we had a small break from high winds and thunderstorms, so I
was able to get my tailwheel checkout.
The plane was a 1947 Aeronca 7AC Champ with no electrics (and prop and handheld
radio) and 65 roaring HP.
The instructor, Vern Foster (95 Years Old) has somewhere around 6000 hours of
tailwheel time. He started flying in 1939.
Checkout took an hour with 8 landings. First thing he did was pull the engine at
30 feet and made me simulate a engine out landing. Then three point landings
and wheel landings. Then cross wind TO and landings. The last thing was taxiing
with the brakes on hard and the power up. This was to prepare me for landing
in very high winds. He said I did well and complemented my instructor (Lonnie
Gillespie) on doing a fine job.
YA HOO!
Blue Skies,
Steve "taildragger" D.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Tail wheel check out. |
| From: | Ken Bickers <bickers.ken(at)gmail.com> |
Way to go, Steve. I bet Vern has some good stories. Cheers, Ken
On Sat, Aug 25, 2012 at 8:22 PM, Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB
wrote:
>
> Well, this morning we had a small break from high winds and thunderstorms, so
I was able to get my tailwheel checkout.
>
> The plane was a 1947 Aeronca 7AC Champ with no electrics (and prop and handheld
radio) and 65 roaring HP.
>
> The instructor, Vern Foster (95 Years Old) has somewhere around 6000 hours of
tailwheel time. He started flying in 1939.
>
> Checkout took an hour with 8 landings. First thing he did was pull the engine
at 30 feet and made me simulate a engine out landing. Then three point landings
and wheel landings. Then cross wind TO and landings. The last thing was taxiing
with the brakes on hard and the power up. This was to prepare me for landing
in very high winds. He said I did well and complemented my instructor (Lonnie
Gillespie) on doing a fine job.
>
> YA HOO!
>
> Blue Skies,
> Steve "taildragger" D.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Tail wheel check out. |
| From: | "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
Steve;
Good on ya! Maybe if you catch me when I'm down at San Geronimo before I take
the wings off of Scout, you can take 'er up!
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford/Ashland, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=381848#381848
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | First Flight of NX308MB |
Fantastic, Gary! The only thing better will be when you fly yourself this
airplane that you built from scratch. There is NO better feeling in the
world, including sex.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Boothe
Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2012 7:40 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: First Flight of NX308MB
Better video is forth coming from another source.
http://youtu.be/KE1lDlGO_P8
Gary Boothe
NX308MB
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: First Flight |
| From: | "Billy McCaskill" <billmz(at)cox.net> |
Way to go, Gary! Nice to see another shiny new Piet take to the skies. Brodhead
in 2013?
--------
Billy McCaskill
Baker, LA
tail section almost done, starting on ribs soon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=381850#381850
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB" <steven.d.dortch(at)us.army.mil> |
| Subject: | Re: Tail wheel check out. |
Vern has a great amount of aviation knowledge. He flew corporate and for the airlines.
He related that the DC3/C47 was a great plane and after a 50 year break
from flying it, He was able to do a greaser landing on his first landing.
Describing the technique of holding brakes and using power, he kept a Lockheed
Electra full of executives from flipping during a gust front. For 10 minutes,
he held brakes, Throttled up, brought the tail up and kept the plane pinned to
the tarmac. Then he taxied to takeoff.
Great guy, I am very pleased to have his name in my log book.
Blue Skies,
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: Ken Bickers <bickers.ken(at)gmail.com>
Date: Saturday, August 25, 2012 21:31
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Tail wheel check out.
>
> Way to go, Steve. I bet Vern has some good stories. Cheers, Ken
>
> On Sat, Aug 25, 2012 at 8:22 PM, Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB
> < wrote:
> >
> > Well, this morning we had a small break from high winds and thunderstorms,
so I was able to get my tailwheel checkout.
> >
> > The plane was a 1947 Aeronca 7AC Champ with no electrics (and prop and handheld
radio) and 65 roaring HP.
> >
> > The instructor, Vern Foster (95 Years Old) has somewhere around 6000 hours
of tailwheel time. He started flying in 1939.
> >
> > Checkout took an hour with 8 landings. First thing he did was pull the engine
at 30 feet and made me simulate a engine out landing. Then three point landings
and wheel landings. Then cross wind TO and landings. The last thing was taxiing
with the brakes on hard and the power up. This was to prepare me for landing
in very high winds. He said I did well and complemented my instructor (Lonnie
Gillespie) on doing a fine job.
> >
> > YA HOO!
> >
> > Blue Skies,
> > Steve "taildragger" D.
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB" <steven.d.dortch(at)us.army.mil> |
| Subject: | Re: Tail wheel check out. |
Be careful what you offer. I am moving back to San Antonio this week and it looks
like i have a hanger back at San Geronimo.
I may get a chance to take you up on this offer.
Blue Skies,
Steve D
----- Original Message -----
From: taildrags <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Saturday, August 25, 2012 22:18
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Tail wheel check out.
>
> Steve;
>
> Good on ya! Maybe if you catch me when I'm down at San Geronimo before I take
the wings off of Scout, you can take 'er up!
>
> --------
> Oscar Zuniga
> Medford/Ashland, OR
> Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
> A75 power
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=381848#381848
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Nicopress tools |
| From: | "biplan53" <biplan53(at)hotmail.com> |
Lowes has a tool for pressing sleeves on, you check that one out.[/b]
--------
Building steel fuselage aircamper.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=381854#381854
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "biplan53" <biplan53(at)hotmail.com> |
I must be barking up the wrong tree cause I still can't get Mykitplane, no matter
how many times I try.
--------
Building steel fuselage aircamper.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=381855#381855
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: FW: First Flight |
A BIG Congradulations Gary From Cool.
-
Shad
--- On Sat, 8/25/12, Rick Schreiber wrote:
From: Rick Schreiber <lmforge(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: FW: First Flight
Date: Saturday, August 25, 2012, 9:54 PM
>
Wow Gary!.......
I cant even imagine how this- first flight felt. Congratulations!
Regards,
Rick Schreiber
le, List Admin.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matthew <matthew.vandervort(at)gmail.com> |
Just married!!
[IMG]http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n91/VanDervort/7F9F267F-15EE-4FDD-BEB6-967B5E2DD2A0-2761-0000024B325C0ECB.jpg[/IMG]
Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 26, 2012, at 12:17 AM, "biplan53" wrote:
>
> I must be barking up the wrong tree cause I still can't get Mykitplane, no matter
how many times I try.
>
> --------
> Building steel fuselage aircamper.
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=381855#381855
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Nicopress tools |
| From: | "bubbleboy" <scott.dawson3(at)bigpond.com> |
I believe what your looking for is a Nicopress 64-CGMP. You can get one with a
cable cutter which is a little more expensive. New they are around the $280USD
from what I have found. I am looking for one also. I have been advised against
using the cheaper models but im no expert so take that with a grain of salt.
There is one on Ebay right now and has been on there for months. I looked in to
it but it has had a hard life and it looks like bolts have been replaced. With
all that they want too much for it. I would rather pay a little extra for a
new one.
Scotty
--------
Tamworth, Australia
Building a Corvair Powered Pietenpol Air Camper
www.scottyspietenpol.com
Tail and Ribs built...Building control system and about to start fuselage...Corvair
engine at Roy's Garage waiting to be modified.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=381862#381862
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ryan M <aircamperace(at)yahoo.com> |
Congrats! Nice pic.=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0A From: Matth
ew =0ATo: "pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com" =0ASent: Sunday, August 26, 2012 2:25 AM=0ASubje
ct: Re: Pietenpol-List: MyKitplane=0A =0A--> Pietenpol-List message posted
by: Matthew =0A=0AJust married!!=0A=0A=0A[IMG
]http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n91/VanDervort/7F9F267F-15EE-4FDD-BEB6-
967B5E2DD2A0-2761-0000024B325C0ECB.jpg[/IMG]=0ASent from my iPhone=0A=0AOn
Aug 26, 2012, at 12:17 AM, "biplan53" wrote:=0A=0A>
=0A> I must be barking- up the wrong tree cause I still can't get Mykitp
lane, no matter how many times I try.=0A> =0A> --------=0A> Building steel
fuselage aircamper.=0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> Read this topic online here:=0A
> =0A> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=381855#381855=0A> =0A>
=- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -Matt Dralle
========
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: FW: First Flight |
| From: | helspersew(at)aol.com |
Gary,
Sweet! A HUGE congratulations to you!! Woow a beautiful bird. You will go t
o sleep with a grin on your face!
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN
-----Original Message-----
From: Gary Boothe <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Sent: Sat, Aug 25, 2012 5:10 pm
Subject: Pietenpol-List: FW: First Flight
List,
I just posted this to family, and personal friends. To this list, I wish to
add the following:
I have not yet flown it, myself, for various reasons. Test pilot, Roy Richa
rdson, flying a Pietenpol for the first time, reported that it flies beauti
fully, even hands off; this despite what we thought was a malfunctioning AS
I. Since he was unsure of his airspeed (turns out he was cruising at 65mph)
, he tended to be a little conservative, and the engine being a little tigh
t, oil temp was high.
More later, as I work thru some stuff
Gary Boothe
NX308MB
From: Gary Boothe [mailto:gboothe5(at)comcast.net]
Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2012 2:59 PM
r; 'wreinthaler(at)lwsupply.com'; Mary Neal; Natalie Boothe (flygirl5479@comca
st.net); randy.farmer (randy.farmer(at)att.net); Richard Vetterli; Ryan Boothe
; Sara Peitzmeier; Vicki Boothe; Woodymsi(at)aol.com; WilliamTCA(at)aol.com; whot
chkiss(at)lwsupply.com; 'Brett Henry (Dryvit)' (brett.henry(at)dryvit.com); 'mbra
nd(at)lwsupply.com'; 'tstokely(at)lwsupply.com'; cpaterson(at)lwsupply.com; 'anelms@
lwsupply.com'; 'gblanco(at)lwsupply.com'; 'Mike Studer'; Mike Weaver; lrtiger@
sbcglobal.net; 'Mark.clough(at)fellertusa.com'; Kevin McDonald; 'jake@lightcre
teinc.com'; 'cfagundes(at)lwsupply.com'; 'smwaud(at)gmail.com'
Subject: First Flight
Family & Friends (If you ever expressed an interest in my project, even if
you faked interest, you made it to the Family & Friends List!..and, if you
have received this circuitously, and think you should have been on the list
, my apologies!),
Here is a picture taken in 1972 at a fly-in/airshow in Madera, Ca., where I
had flown my recently restored Taylorcraft BC12-D (inset).
I was 19 years oldand hung-over for the first time (its own bitter
sweet story!). Bad as my headache was, I wasn=99t in such poor shape
that I couldn=99t recognize the simple beauty of a Pietenpol, telling
myself, =9CSomeday=9D For those who may not know, thi
s airplane was designed by Bernard Pietenpol in 1927. It has always only ex
isted as a set of plans, by which aviation experimenters have been building
Pietenpols around the world for the past 80+ years.
Fast forward 40 years, after realizing the futility of staying in aviation
and raising a family since 1985, my dream of building & flying that simple
little airplane has been finally fulfilled! This airplane is a tribute to m
y father, a die-hard do-it-yourselfer. The FAA =98N=99 number,
NX308MB, contains his initials, along with the month and year of his passin
g, which, not without coincidence, is the month and year that I began work
on the Pietenpol. I miss you, Dad
FAA airworthiness inspection & certificate was granted on August 8, 2012,
and first flight was today, August 25, 2012, by test pilot, Roy Richardson,
without incident. Construction is wood and fabric, powered by a Corvair en
gine and my own hand-carved prop! This initial flight will be followed by 4
0 hours of solo test flight where I will establish the parameters of the ai
rcraft operation (which is a fancy way of saying, =9CStay in the air,
when you want toLand, when & where you want to.)
Gary Boothe
NX308MB
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <r.r.hall(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Nicopress tools |
If memory serves the holes are lettered and I believe I use the M hole for my 1/8
inch cables. Here is a table that shows what to use for each size.
http://nicopress.com/C2.htm#_Hlk1143190811,351,404,0,,Nicopress Copper & Zinc Plated
Just make sure you get the tool to check the fitting after it is swaged. I bought
my off ebay used but from what I understand they are available in the wire
rope section at some stores like lowas and home depot.
---- John Greenlee wrote:
>
Hello all,
When I originally built the Pietenpol, I used a manualswaging tool I think it
is called a Swage-it. It is the one where youtighten some bolts to crush the sleeves.
I am interested in getting abolt-cutter style swaging tool. The only sizes
I should need to swage are1/16, 3/32, and 1/8. I see a lot of previously
owned Nicopress tools on ebay.However, I do not know how to identify the correct
model number to do what Iwant to do. These should be relatively plentiful as
they are really atelephone company technology. Does anybody have any information
and experienceon which model to get?
Thanks!
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: First Flight |
| From: | "kevinpurtee" <kevin.purtee(at)us.army.mil> |
Congrats, Gary!!!
Kevin & Shelley
--------
Kevin "Axel" Purtee
NX899KP
Austin/San Marcos, TX
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=381893#381893
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Thank you from Kevin & Shelley |
| From: | "kevinpurtee" <kevin.purtee(at)us.army.mil> |
We're hard pressed to express our appreciation to those of you who contributed
to Operation Axel. Your generosity is overwhelming. Thank you.
If you look at the number of contributors and the amount of money contributed,
the average donation is substantial. Given what we know about bell curves, some
of you were extraordinarily generous. Again, thank you.
Thanks to John Recine for the suggestion and particularly to Ryan Mueller for doing
the leg work. Both good friends!
We have decent health insurance, but this event still won't be cheap. We'd like
you to know what your donations accomplished:
- You got FBG back to her hangar,
- You got us back home,
- You've bought all the new wing spars and longerons:),
- You paid the rockstars at Brodhead Fire Department their fee for coming to get
my broken butt out of the FBG safely.
All these expenses were out of pocket.
We owe you. Not sure how to pay you back except to feed you spaghetti with joy
and love in the coming years. Please make sure you contact us when you come
through Austin so we can show you love here as well.
A note of thanks to those of you who have e-mailed, called, prayed, Facebooked,
sent gifts, visited (30 visitors in the hospital in Madison!!!!), and given other
help. John Hoffman and Susan Rees were Shelley's lifeline and support system
in Madison. Jim Markle has been extraordinary in several ways. Shelley's
ex, Dammit-Jim, my husband-in-law, came to Madison, got the boy and the rental
van and took them both back to Austin.
We've received several offers of parts and pieces. Thank you all for your generosity.
I haven't contacted everyone but I will.
We love you!
Kevin & Shelley
--------
Kevin "Axel" Purtee
NX899KP
Austin/San Marcos, TX
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=381896#381896
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JOSEPH SWITHIN <joeswithin(at)yahoo.com> |
Gary,=0ACongratulations. Somehow I dumped the list from the 25th so I' am a
little behind. Can you tell me how to get to the video? It must be a proud
moment for you as you move to the next phase of enjoyment. =0A-=0AJoe Sw
ithin=0AMorris, IL=0AHunting and Gathering Phase-
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Piper Parts Fore Sale |
| From: | "womenfly2" <Love2Fly.KAP(at)gmail.com> |
Seller never contacted me ..... O-well.
WF2
--------
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=381938#381938
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
Here's a much better video of the first flight, thanks to fellow airport
bum, Ken Schwartz: http://youtu.be/9QoayV-MSPY
My first flight is still a couple days away.
Thanks, Ken!!
Gary Boothe
NX308MB
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
Beautiful, Gary! Looks like Christmas came 4 months early for you.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Boothe
Sent: Monday, August 27, 2012 8:07 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: NX308MB Video
Here's a much better video of the first flight, thanks to fellow airport
bum, Ken Schwartz: http://youtu.be/9QoayV-MSPY
My first flight is still a couple days away.
Thanks, Ken!!
Gary Boothe
NX308MB
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
Didn't know we were supposed to work so hard for Christmas presents, Jack!
Gary Boothe
NX308MB
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack
Phillips
Sent: Monday, August 27, 2012 5:17 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: NX308MB Video
Beautiful, Gary! Looks like Christmas came 4 months early for you.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Boothe
Sent: Monday, August 27, 2012 8:07 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: NX308MB Video
Here's a much better video of the first flight, thanks to fellow airport
bum, Ken Schwartz: http://youtu.be/9QoayV-MSPY
My first flight is still a couple days away.
Thanks, Ken!!
Gary Boothe
NX308MB
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Personal Recovery at 1 Month |
Shelley=3B
I fully understand your terse reply=2C "maybe not"... meaning=2C "when pigs
fly!" as far as Kevin ferrying my airplane halfway across the country. Yo
u need to understand that I just had to throw that out there =3Bo) My best
friend up here in Oregon is a guy who will try anything on a dare=2C and m
ore often than not we measure the daring-ness of a thing by asking ourselve
s "is it something Mark might try?" However=2C it's that kind of attitude
that has brought Mark through knee surgery=2C shoulder surgery=2C countless
tumbles and scrapes=2C his wife leaving him=2C etc. etc.- and still loving
life and staying younger than his age might indicate. So it is with Kevin
- there has to be a plate for him to step up to=2C or he won't even feel li
ke swinging at the ball. He swung =3Bo)
There are others who have swung=3B most of us didn't have bandages or broke
n bones in the mix=2C but a few have. Mostly it was just badly damaged air
planes=2C and it is so difficult to look at your crashed handiwork and wond
er if it's even worth thinking about starting over on it. Ask Gardiner "ai
rlion" Mason and others who had to look at their pride and joy in a heap=2C
and then pick through the remains of their airplanes and the ruins of thei
r personal resolve. Heck=2C I had to look at Scout sitting in the corner o
f a hangar all busted up and bent=2C and wondered if the airplane would eve
r fly again or if I should just part it out and start building a widened=2C
lengthened=2C electrified=2C higher-horsepower=2C instrumented=2C shiny pa
inted=2C new Piet instead of putting heart and soul into the banged-up mess
that I was looking at. The fact that 41CC is still in the FAA's books and
still flying strong=2C should provide the answer.
It's a good sign that Kevin took a swing at my wild pitch=2C but it's an ev
en better sign that you put a stop to it =3Bo) I promise I won't tempt fat
e again=2C or at least if I do I'll be sure to add a big *wink-wink* so you
'll know I'm not serious.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC=2C "Scout"
Medford=2C OR
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: NX308MB Video |
| From: | "Billy McCaskill" <billmz(at)cox.net> |
Billy can't wait to see it at Brodhead too. The list is growing, Gary. You have
about 11 months to get your BFR, and to fly off the 40 hours...
--------
Billy McCaskill
Baker, LA
tail section almost done, starting on ribs soon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=381966#381966
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: NX308MB Video |
| From: | "Mark Roberts" <mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com> |
Very very cool Gary! Second best feeling only to when you actually get to fly it
yourself!
Mark
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=381969#381969
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Piper Parts Fore Sale |
I am sorry about that. He did email me to thank me for giving him your information.
Perhaps he already sold the parts? Either way, no excuse.
Michael Perez
Pietenpol HINT Videos
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: NX308MB Video |
| From: | helspersew(at)aol.com |
Gorgeous airplane Gary. I never really got to appreciate all the unique fea
tures of this aircraft. Beautiful!!
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN
-----Original Message-----
From: Gary Boothe <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Sent: Mon, Aug 27, 2012 7:13 pm
Subject: Pietenpol-List: NX308MB Video
Here=99s a much better video of the first flight, thanks to fellow ai
rport bum, Ken Schwartz: http://youtu.be/9QoayV-MSPY
My first flight is still a couple days away
Thanks, Ken!!
Gary Boothe
NX308MB
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov> |
SnVzdCBsaWtlIHRoZSBidWlsZGVyL293bmVyLW9wZXJhdG9yIHlvdXIgdmlkZW8gb2YgeW91ciBm
aXJzdCBmbGlnaHQgd2FzIHJlYWxseSBjbGFzc3kgR2FyeS4NCldheSB0byBnbyBpbiBhbGwgcmVn
YXJkcyBhbmQgbXVjaCByZXNwZWN0IGFuZCBhZG1pcmF0aW9uIHRvIHlvdSwgeW91ciBzb24sIGFu
ZCB5b3VyIHRlc3QgcGlsb3QhDQoNCk1pa2UgQy4NCg0KDQo
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: NX308MB Video |
| From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
Awesome wings Gary! Looking forward to hearing your first hand flight report.
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage and Fuse framed up - Working on Landing Gear
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=381992#381992
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Piper Parts Fore Sale |
| From: | "womenfly2" <Love2Fly.KAP(at)gmail.com> |
That is okay. If he still has them, I am still interested.
WF2
--------
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=381993#381993
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Piper Parts Fore Sale |
Copy. I'll remind him.
Michael Perez
Pietenpol HINT Videos
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Straight Exhaust |
Crew, I am ready to make my exhaust pipes. I am leaning towards making four
straight pipes. (Maybe angled some or a small bend...)- I would prefer s
tainless...
My questions are:
Diameter?
Wall thickness?
Minimal length?
Flange thickness? (or should I buy?)
I'll need heat muff ideas as well.
Any other suggestions appreciated!
Michael Perez
=0APietenpol HINT Videos
=0AKaretaker Aero
=0Awww.karetakeraero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Straight Exhaust |
Michael,
Heat muff will be a challenge, but not impossible.
Gary Boothe
NX308MB
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael
Perez
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2012 6:50 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Straight Exhaust
Crew, I am ready to make my exhaust pipes. I am leaning towards making four
straight pipes. (Maybe angled some or a small bend...) I would prefer
stainless...
My questions are:
Diameter?
Wall thickness?
Minimal length?
Flange thickness? (or should I buy?)
I'll need heat muff ideas as well.
Any other suggestions appreciated!
Michael Perez
Pietenpol HINT Videos
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Straight Exhaust |
Gary, do you have any material inside the muff, or did you just wrap the pipe only
as shown in the picture?
Michael Perez
Pietenpol HINT Videos
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Straight Exhaust |
Continental A65's use 1-1/2" diameter exhaust stacks. Lycomings use 1-3/4".
For Stainless most use .035" wall. I would buy the flanges from ACS. Be
sure you shield the inside of the tubing during the welding process. The
argon from the TIG torch will shield the exterior of the weld but with such
thin material the inside of the tube will be nearly as hot and unshielded
unless you make provisions for it. Best way is to fill the tube with argon
and plug the ends, then weld before the argon can leak out. To tell when
the tube is full of argon, if you can stick a lit match inside the tube and
it stays lit you still have oxygen in there.
If you do not shield the tube interior, the exhaust system will crack in the
first 50 hours (ask me how I know).
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael
Perez
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2012 9:50 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Straight Exhaust
Crew, I am ready to make my exhaust pipes. I am leaning towards making four
straight pipes. (Maybe angled some or a small bend...) I would prefer
stainless...
My questions are:
Diameter?
Wall thickness?
Minimal length?
Flange thickness? (or should I buy?)
I'll need heat muff ideas as well.
Any other suggestions appreciated!
Michael Perez
Pietenpol HINT Videos
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Hofmann <jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Straight Exhaust |
Mike,
502Rocket has these stainless wraps on each rear pipe. They meet at a
Y-connector then feed the carb heat box. I can take some detailed
pictures this weekend when I am out at the hangar if you are interested.
The straight pipes are good 'n loud too. Mikee told me when I made my
arrival at Brodhead this year he could hear me for a bit before I popped
over the trees.
-john-
>
>
> Crew, I am ready to make my exhaust pipes. I am leaning towards making
four straight pipes. (Maybe angled some or a small bend...) I would
prefer stainless...
>
> My questions are:
>
> Diameter?
> Wall thickness?
> Minimal length?
> Flange thickness? (or should I buy?)
>
> I'll need heat muff ideas as well.
>
> Any other suggestions appreciated!
>
>
> Michael Perez
> Pietenpol HINT Videos
> Karetaker Aero
> www.karetakeraero.com
>
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> http://forums.matronics.com
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Straight Exhaust |
Understood Jack, thanks. I have made an internal purge line for some other SS welding
I have done. On these larger tubes, I plan to plug one end and leave a
very small hole. The other will be plugged, save for the inlet of the purge line.
The purge can be set to supply a low flow through the entire SS tube.
Michael Perez
Pietenpol HINT Videos
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Straight Exhaust |
Thanks Gary. Pictures are great, I am interested in whatever you want to share.
Michael Perez
Pietenpol HINT Videos
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | steve(at)wotelectronics.com |
| Subject: | Re: Straight Exhaust |
I made new straight stacks for my plane a year or two ago. I used
these flanges from
ACS:
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/eppages/steelexauststackflanges.php
I
just bought the pipe from a local exhaust shop. It is 1.5", only one
size will fit the flanges. Mine are about 15" long, I just made them
long enough that I would be able to secure a heat muff. I used mild
steel (not stainless) since I intended to ceramic coat them.
I had them
ceramic coated by a local shop and they look great (about $100). Easy to
clean and they won't corrode or deteriorate at all for years. They look
great but the ceramic coating isn't a very authentic look if you are
going for period correctness. I have an awkward affinity for shiny metal
and my plane isn't period correct so that is what I did.
:)
Pictures:
http://www.wotelectronics.com/flying/salt/DSC_0620.JPG
http://www.wotelectronics.com/flying/salt/DSC_0619.JPG
(It
has a wood prop now which looks much better) :)
Steve Ruse
Norman, OK
On 2012-08-29 08:50, Michael Perez wrote:
> Crew, I am ready to make
my exhaust pipes. I am leaning towards making four straight pipes.
(Maybe angled some or a small bend...) I would prefer stainless...
>
>
My questions are:
>
> Diameter?
> Wall thickness?
> Minimal length?
>
Flange thickness? (or should I buy?)
>
> I'll need heat muff ideas as
well.
>
> Any other suggestions appreciated!
>
> Michael Perez
>
Pietenpol HINT Videos
> Karetaker Aero
> www.karetakeraero.com
>
>
HTTP://WWW.MATRONICS.COM/CONTRIBUTION
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Straight Exhaust |
John H. actually sounded like an 0-200 on a C-150 approaching from the Ea
st of Brodhead and it sounded GREAT. I could hear him coming
for a long time. Very unique sound to John's setup and I think the wind ca
rried his engine sound nicely to Brodhead from his approach.
His hands were freezing when I shook hands with him. Down low on the groun
d it was fairly comfortable but up a few hundred feet John
and other pilots that day said it was downright chilly!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Straight Exhaust |
Thanks John. Feel free to send me whatever pictures you like. At this point I am
just gathering intel. and trying to decide how to make everything.
Michael Perez
Pietenpol HINT Videos
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Straight Exhaust |
Steve, I am considering using mild steel and ceramic coating!- Years ago
I had the headers of my GTO coated at Jet Hot. They look today just as new
as they did then.
Nothing on my plane is "period correct" so coated pipes are a non-event...
Michael Perez
=0APietenpol HINT Videos
=0AKaretaker Aero
=0Awww.karetakeraero.com
=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Straight Exhaust |
Michael, for my first exhaust system I used stainless flanges, straight
stacks and curves from Aircraft Spruce. They worked great for the first 40
hours then began cracking due to the lack of shielding during welding as
mentioned before. I cut the pieces using a "Joint-Jigger" and fitted them
in place using scraps of sheet steel and hose clamps.
Here is a picture of the Joint-Jigger setup:
And then test-fitting the cut:
After it cracked 3 times I replaced it with a plain carbon steel setup which
I've been flying with ever since. No ceramic coating, I just beadblast it
and paint it with clear VHT paint every 3 years or so.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael
Perez
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2012 12:28 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Straight Exhaust
Steve, I am considering using mild steel and ceramic coating! Years ago I
had the headers of my GTO coated at Jet Hot. They look today just as new as
they did then.
Nothing on my plane is "period correct" so coated pipes are a non-event...
Michael Perez
Pietenpol HINT Videos
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Straight Exhaust |
Did you bend the SS yourself Jack?- What type SS did you use?- Some wel
d/machine better and others have better corrosion/heat tolerance.-- (Wh
ich I am sure you already know, as do others...), ACS sells 321 SS tube, bu
t wow...very, very pricey!
I have 304, maybe 316 handy, but the wall is .065 and I am not sure either
one would be suitable for this task.- I believe 316 is quite a bit harder
to bend then 304...if I- were to decide on bends...
This is all good stuff, keep it coming!
Michael Perez
=0APietenpol HINT Videos
=0AKaretaker Aero
=0Awww.karetakeraero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Straight Exhaust |
I bought pre-bent sections from ACS. I thought it was 304, but it might
have been 321. I don't remember - it was 10 years ago.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael
Perez
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2012 1:22 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Straight Exhaust
Did you bend the SS yourself Jack? What type SS did you use? Some
weld/machine better and others have better corrosion/heat tolerance.
(Which I am sure you already know, as do others...), ACS sells 321 SS tube,
but wow...very, very pricey!
I have 304, maybe 316 handy, but the wall is .065 and I am not sure either
one would be suitable for this task. I believe 316 is quite a bit harder to
bend then 304...if I were to decide on bends...
This is all good stuff, keep it coming!
Michael Perez
Pietenpol HINT Videos
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Aileron Capstrip |
| From: | "John Francis" <Mrkringles(at)msn.com> |
I've slightly exaggerated the position of the cap strip on the aileron spar to
demonstrate how it will not be on the same plane as the aileron spars if not shaped.
Did those of you using the piano hinge shape this cap strip so the hinge
will lay flush?
Thanks
--------
John Francis
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382085#382085
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc07696_131.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Aileron Capstrip |
| From: | "Jack(at)textors.com" <jack(at)textors.com> |
John your hinge will be inline with the top of the capstrip
Jack Textor
Sent from my iPad
On Aug 29, 2012, at 2:38 PM, "John Francis" wrote:
>
> I've slightly exaggerated the position of the cap strip on the aileron spar to
demonstrate how it will not be on the same plane as the aileron spars if not
shaped. Did those of you using the piano hinge shape this cap strip so the hinge
will lay flush?
>
> Thanks
>
> --------
> John Francis
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382085#382085
>
>
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc07696_131.jpg
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack(at)textors.com" <jack(at)textors.com> |
Like this http://www.textors.com/Ailerons_002.jpg
Jack Textor
Sent from my iPad
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Straight Exhaust |
| From: | "pineymb" <airltd(at)mts.net> |
Mild steel pipes ceramic coated, holding up after 150 hours. Heat muff seems to
be adequate.
--------
Adrian M
Winnipeg, MB
Canada
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382092#382092
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00315_855.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Aileron Capstrip |
| From: | "John Francis" <Mrkringles(at)msn.com> |
Thanks Jack and I understand what you are saying. When I cut out the aileron I
will move the hinge flush to the top of the cap strip. But, the cap strip, when
glued on without shaping, will not be flush with the sides of the aileron
spars because the aileron spars are cut on top at an angle other than 90 degrees.
I new this was going to be hard to explain and that is why I drew the box
on the image. Clear as mud???
--------
John Francis
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382094#382094
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Aileron Capstrip |
| From: | "John Francis" <Mrkringles(at)msn.com> |
Thanks Jack and I understand what you are saying. When I cut out the aileron I
will move the hinge flush to the top of the cap strip. But, the cap strip, when
glued on without shaping, will not be flush with the sides of the aileron
spars because the aileron spars are cut on top at an angle other than 90 degrees.
I new this was going to be hard to explain and that is why I drew the box
on the image. Clear as mud???
--------
John Francis
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382095#382095
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Aileron Capstrip |
| From: | gboothe5(at)comcast.net |
John,
You would need to rip those strips wider than the spars, then rasp flat with the
spar after the glue sets.
Gary
------Original Message------
From: John Francis
Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
ReplyTo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aileron Capstrip
Sent: Aug 29, 2012 2:33 PM
Thanks Jack and I understand what you are saying. When I cut out the aileron I
will move the hinge flush to the top of the cap strip. But, the cap strip, when
glued on without shaping, will not be flush with the sides of the aileron
spars because the aileron spars are cut on top at an angle other than 90 degrees.
I new this was going to be hard to explain and that is why I drew the box
on the image. Clear as mud???
--------
John Francis
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382094#382094
Sent on the Sprint Now Network from my BlackBerry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Straight Exhaust |
Michael,
I bought 'U-Bends' from Magnum Force, www.magnumforce.com, or
http://www.magnumforce.com/store/results.asp?CategoryID=29. These are mild
steel, but they sure make the process easy!
Gary Boothe
NX308MB
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael
Perez
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2012 9:28 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Straight Exhaust
Steve, I am considering using mild steel and ceramic coating! Years ago I
had the headers of my GTO coated at Jet Hot. They look today just as new as
they did then.
Nothing on my plane is "period correct" so coated pipes are a non-event...
Michael Perez
Pietenpol HINT Videos
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Aileron Capstrip |
| From: | "Catdesigns" <Catdesigns(at)att.net> |
John
When you install the aileron spar hold it back the thickness of the piano hinge
so the aileron trailing edge lines up with the wing after you install the piano
hinge. This should give you a little room between the aileron spar and the
vertical plank in the wing. When you cut out the aileron, cut the cap strip
flush with the vertical plank in the wing. This should leave enough cap strip
overhanging to sand at an angle flush with the aileron spar. You will also need
to add filler strips between the cap strips. These you sand flush with the
spars so when the piano hinge is flush with the top of the aileron it will lay
flush against the spar.
http://www.westcoastpiet.com/images/Chris%20Tracy/images/IMG_0222a_9.JPG
--------
Chris
Sacramento, CA
WestCoastPiet.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382101#382101
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Aileron Capstrip |
| From: | "John Francis" <Mrkringles(at)msn.com> |
Thanks all, I got it now.
--------
John Francis
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382106#382106
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Straight Exhaust |
Mike, Check out JEGS high performance (Race shop mail order at jegs.com) Th
ey have a lot of mandral bends, J bends, U bends etc.=C2- That is where w
e got our stainless for the 1st exaust, and where I bought the mild steel j
bends for the one that is on there now.=C2- They have quite a bit of exa
ust tubing that is made in the USA.
=C2-
Shad
--- On Wed, 8/29/12, Jack Phillips wrote:
From: Jack Phillips <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Straight Exhaust
Date: Wednesday, August 29, 2012, 3:19 PM
I bought pre-bent sections from ACS.=C2- I thought it was 304, but it mig
ht have been 321. =C2-I don=99t remember =93 it was 10 years
ago.
=C2-
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
=C2-
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-lis
t-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael Perez
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2012 1:22 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Straight Exhaust
=C2-
Did you bend the SS yourself Jack?=C2- What type SS did you use?=C2- So
me weld/machine better and others have better corrosion/heat tolerance.=C2
-=C2- (Which I am sure you already know, as do others...), ACS sells 32
1 SS tube, but wow...very, very pricey!
I have 304, maybe 316 handy, but the wall is .065 and I am not sure either
one would be suitable for this task.=C2- I believe 316 is quite a bit har
der to bend then 304...if I=C2- were to decide on bends...
This is all good stuff, keep it coming!
Michael Perez
Pietenpol HINT Videos
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
=C2- =C2-http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhttp://forum
s.matronics.comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution =C2-
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: "...you must be proud!" |
| From: | "aerocarjake" <flight.jake(at)gmail.com> |
I'm proud to be associated with such a fine group of people - most of whom I have
never met - who are enjoying so many of the same life experiences around building
a plane of this era...... Thx Gary, very well written.........
--------
Jake Schultz - curator,
Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382126#382126
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Hans van der Voort <nx15kv(at)yahoo.com> |
http://www.oracover.de/index.php/katalog/artikelinfo/10472-1-show-oratex_60
00_-_width_900_mm_lenght_1_m.html=0A-=0AI noticed Oracover now has fabric
for full size aircraft (at least Pietenpol size)=0A-=0ANo dope, silver o
r finsh color required, just glue on shrink and done.=0A-=0AJust like a m
odel airplane.=0AThe model airplane market must be drying up for them, to s
tart marketing to the experimental market.=0A-=0AWho wants to be the firs
t to try this ?=0A-=0AFYI, I do not endorse this in anyway, just thought
the information is interesting.=0A-=0AHans=0A-=0ANX15KV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: tailwheel spring |
The first couple pictures gives you a little idea on my custom tail wheel s
et up. The last two pictures shows that I machined down the bolt head to a
thinner size, drilled out the length of the bolt and cross drilled it and t
he nut for the cotter pin.- The tail assembly is very light weight. 4" wh
eel from ACS. I bent the "A" arm to align the spring better and to be paral
lel with the ground while sitting.
Extensive details and procedures explained in my HINT Video.- I have all
the dimensional prints as well...if interested.
Not flight tested...yet.
Michael Perez
=0APietenpol HINT Videos
=0AKaretaker Aero
=0Awww.karetakeraero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SENTUCHOWS(at)aol.com |
Hans, do you have a web site for Oracover?
In a message dated 8/30/2012 9:47:45 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
nx15kv(at)yahoo.com writes:
_http://www.oracover.de/index.php/katalog/artikelinfo/10472-1-show-oratex_60
00_-_width_900_mm_lenght_1_m.html_
(http://www.oracover.de/index.php/katalog/artikelinfo/10472-1-show-oratex_6000_-_width_900_mm_lenght_1_m.html)
I noticed Oracover now has fabric for full size aircraft (at least
Pietenpol size)
No dope, silver or finsh color required, just glue on shrink and done.
Just like a model airplane.
The model airplane market must be drying up for them, to start marketing
to the experimental market.
Who wants to be the first to try this ?
FYI, I do not endorse this in anyway, just thought the information is
interesting.
Hans
NX15KV
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List)
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Hans van der Voort <nx15kv(at)yahoo.com> |
I thought I did.=0A-=0ABut here it is again:=0A-=0Ahttp://www.oracover.
de/downloads/Product_Information/Product-Information_2010_engl.pdf=0A=0AHan
s=0A-=0ANX15KV =0A=0A________________________________=0A From: "SENTUCHOW
S(at)aol.com" =0ATo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com =0ASent:
Thursday, August 30, 2012 9:55 AM=0ASubject: Re: Pietenpol-List: New Fabri
c=0A =0A=0A =0AHans, do you have a web site for Oracover? =0A=0AIn a messa
ge dated 8/30/2012 9:47:45 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, =0Anx15kv(at)yahoo.com
writes: =0Ahttp://www.oracover.de/index.php/katalog/artikelinfo/10472-1-sho
w-oratex_6000_-_width_900_mm_lenght_1_m.html- =0A>I noticed Oracover now
has fabric for full size aircraft (at least Pietenpol size) =0A>=0A>No dop
e, silver or finsh color required, just glue on shrink and done. =0A>=0A>J
ust like a model airplane. =0A>The model airplane market must be drying up
for them, to start marketing to the experimental market. =0A>=0A>Who wants
to be the first to try this ? =0A>=0A>FYI, I do not endorse this in anyway
, just thought the information is interesting. =0A>=0A>Hans =0A>=0A>NX15KV
=0A>href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.m
atronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List s.matronics.com/">http://forums.matro
nics.com=0Ap://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/con
=====================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "C N Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Aileron Capstrip |
I ran my hinge all the way up so that the "knuckle" was even with the top of
the capstrip. I did all this after the aileron was cut away from the wing.
Yes, the filler capstrip was shaped so that the hinge would lie flat. The
filler capstrip was moved forward so that the top-forward edge was even with
the front of the sloped side of the aileron spar. Clear as mud? C
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Francis" <Mrkringles(at)msn.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2012 3:38 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Aileron Capstrip
>
> I've slightly exaggerated the position of the cap strip on the aileron
> spar to demonstrate how it will not be on the same plane as the aileron
> spars if not shaped. Did those of you using the piano hinge shape this
> cap strip so the hinge will lay flush?
>
> Thanks
>
> --------
> John Francis
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382085#382085
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc07696_131.jpg
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Straight Exhaust |
| From: | "Pieti Lowell" <Lowellcfrank(at)yahoo.com> |
Mike:
I use scrap SS 1-1/2" OD that is used for milking machines, it is available in
all lengths and 90 Degree bends that can be cut and welded to any angle required.
There is piles of this type of Stainless West of Hartford Airport Wisconsin,
If interested when you are ready and I will get the fellow pilot's name and
contact info for you,
Pieti Lowell
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382162#382162
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Straight Exhaust |
I would appreciate that information as soon as you can get it to me...thanks!
Michael Perez
Pietenpol HINT Videos
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Full Tail Wheel Disclosure! (Almost...) |
Here are a few more details on my tail wheel mods.:
-
I never did like the idea of squishing the tubes on the tail wheel "A" arm
where they attach to the fuselage brackets.- I did not like the fact that
this now squished, thin area-gets a bolt brazed to-it, uses a cotter p
in-and has to somehow handle the side loads put on it.- Further more, I
did not like the idea of having-four holes drilled into the lower longer
on, two horizontally and-two vertically, in very, very close proximity to
each other. (Hole edge spacing)
-
So, I made my tube ends like I did for the control sticks. (Picture1 and 2)
-
-Picture 3 shows my template and brackets made to go around the longeron,
and have two bolts run all the way through.
-
Picture 4 shows these brackets in place on the fuselage. Plywood is between
the soft spruce and brackets.
-
Picture 5 shows how the "A" arm fits into these brackets.
-
My tubes are 5/8" .049" wall.
-
Flight test will show if all this was worth the effort...
-
Michael Perez
Pietenpol HINT Videos
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Full Tail Wheel Disclosure! (Almost...) |
| From: | Andrew Eldredge <andrew.eldredge(at)gmail.com> |
On thing about the a-arm attachment is that the axes of the pivoting bolts
do not line up naturally. The squished tube solution mitigates this
somewhat because the attachment is "single point" on each side. It seems
your solution might introduce some binding unless you made some effort to
line up the bolt axes, but perhaps the angular travel is not enough to
substantially exercise that pivot. I am curious to know how that works
out. I do like that you have the attach point away from the truss
junction. The bolting of of that fitting seemed a bit clunky.
Andrew Eldredge
Provo, UT
On Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 5:26 PM, Michael Perez wrote:
> Here are a few more details on my tail wheel mods.:
>
> I never did like the idea of squishing the tubes on the tail wheel "A" arm
> where they attach to the fuselage brackets. I did not like the fact that
> this now squished, thin area gets a bolt brazed to it, uses a cotter
> pin and has to somehow handle the side loads put on it. Further more, I
> did not like the idea of having four holes drilled into the lower longeron,
> two horizontally and two vertically, in very, very close proximity to each
> other. (Hole edge spacing)
>
> So, I made my tube ends like I did for the control sticks. (Picture1 and 2)
>
> Picture 3 shows my template and brackets made to go around the longeron,
> and have two bolts run all the way through.
>
> Picture 4 shows these brackets in place on the fuselage. Plywood is
> between the soft spruce and brackets.
>
> Picture 5 shows how the "A" arm fits into these brackets.
>
> My tubes are 5/8" .049" wall.
>
> Flight test will show if all this was worth the effort...
>
> Michael Perez
> Pietenpol HINT Videos
> Karetaker Aero
> www.karetakeraero.com
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Full Tail Wheel Disclosure! (Almost...) |
You are correct Andrew, as the spring compresses and the A arm swings towar
ds the fuselage, the angle on the bolt tubes changes.- I was able to cons
truct mine to minimize the binding at these locations.- It is only at the
extreme end of travel, where the spring is almost fully compressed, that t
here is any sign of binding.- In my mind, it is not going to be an issue,
considering how often the gear gets compressed to that extreme.
Michael Perez
=0APietenpol HINT Videos
=0AKaretaker Aero
=0Awww.karetakeraero.com
=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Full Tail Wheel Disclosure! (Almost...) |
I installed bronze bushings in the 2 a-arm attach-fittings (The ones bolt
ed to the lower longeron).- I seem to have to change them almost once a y
ear.- The holes in the fuse. fittings were getting sloppy so I figured I'
d better do something so we didn't have to cut off fabric to install new fi
ttings.- They probably wear fast due to flying off of grass almost exclus
ively, and having a very small tailwheel.- What you say makes sense, abou
t the binding, and the angle/ misalignment with compression of the t/w spri
ng assembly.- Mabey in 5-10 years if and when I recover the piet, I will
try to "Improve" some of those types of things, but untill then I will spen
d the $3 per year and put new busings in , and keep flying untill the crank
snaps.
-
Waiting on the remains of Issac to soak my weekend,
Shad
--- On Fri, 8/31/12, Michael Perez wrote:
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Full Tail Wheel Disclosure! (Almost...)
Date: Friday, August 31, 2012, 9:11 AM
You are correct Andrew, as the spring compresses and the A arm swings towar
ds the fuselage, the angle on the bolt tubes changes.- I was able to cons
truct mine to minimize the binding at these locations.- It is only at the
extreme end of travel, where the spring is almost fully compressed, that t
here is any sign of binding.- In my mind, it is not going to be an issue,
considering how often the gear gets compressed to that extreme.
Michael Perez
Pietenpol HINT Videos
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Cardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Full Tail Wheel Disclosure! (Almost...) |
On NX18235 we installed rod end bearings at the A-arm ends.
No binding and no wear.
Greg Cardinal
----- Original Message -----
From: shad bell
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, August 31, 2012 7:50 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Full Tail Wheel Disclosure! (Almost...)
I installed bronze bushings in the 2 a-arm attach fittings (The
ones bolted to the lower longeron). I seem to have to change them
almost once a year. The holes in the fuse. fittings were getting sloppy
so I figured I'd better do something so we didn't have to cut off fabric
to install new fittings. They probably wear fast due to flying off of
grass almost exclusively, and having a very small tailwheel. What you
say makes sense, about the binding, and the angle/ misalignment with
compression of the t/w spring assembly. Mabey in 5-10 years if and when
I recover the piet, I will try to "Improve" some of those types of
things, but untill then I will spend the $3 per year and put new busings
in , and keep flying untill the crank snaps.
Waiting on the remains of Issac to soak my weekend,
Shad
--- On Fri, 8/31/12, Michael Perez
wrote:
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Full Tail Wheel Disclosure!
(Almost...)
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Friday, August 31, 2012, 9:11 AM
You are correct Andrew, as the spring compresses and the
A arm swings towards the fuselage, the angle on the bolt tubes changes.
I was able to construct mine to minimize the binding at these locations.
It is only at the extreme end of travel, where the spring is almost
fully compressed, that there is any sign of binding. In my mind, it is
not going to be an issue, considering how often the gear gets compressed
to that extreme.
Michael Perez
Pietenpol HINT Videos
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
" rel=nofollow
target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
et=_blank>http://forums.matronics.com
llow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Straight Exhaust |
| From: | "Pieti Lowell" <Lowellcfrank(at)yahoo.com> |
The contact that I have for SS .
Joel Gehring
Cell : 262-224-5316
Email:
Ask for Joel
He will also be at Brodhead this next week-end , Sept.7-9,@ MAAC Fly-In.
Pieti Lowell
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382276#382276
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | cool vintage style wool coveralls |
Hey all,
If any of you are into vintage flying clothes. and aren't too large.
Ck out Sportsman's guide. Just found the coolest set of vintage style wool
blend Italian coveralls (WX2-206131 New Italian Military Issue Wool
Coveralls, Gray)
which are identical to those I've seen pictured being worn by aviators in
the thirties. $23 just got me a pair and they are awesome! Even though
they are marked large though, they are barely large enough for me, and I'm
only 5'9" and weigh 155. The quality though seems excellent and the styling
is perfect for those of us who like to look the part. Just ordered a second
pair because these won't ever come back I'm guessing.
Enjoy!
Douwe
http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/new-italian-military-issue-wool-covera
lls-gray.aspx?a=891164
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Sport plane construction techniques by Tony Bingelis |
| From: | "Mark Roberts" <mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com> |
So I FINALLY bought the rest of the series of How To books, and I am grateful to
those on this list that have done 2 things for me:
1. NOT told me to shut up and look it up in these books first before asking here;
2. Patiently advised me of answers contained in these books.
I'm only 50 pages not he yellow book and already answered a ton of metal questions
I had about the fittings I am about to attempt.
So, if you are just starting, get the whole set of books first! Don't buy them
one at a time like I started out doing!
I know the esteemed Mike Cuy has said he relied on these before there really was
a list like this to turn to... I now know why.
Mark
(shrugging his shoulders and slapping his forehead in Fresno)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382286#382286
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: cool vintage style wool coveralls |
| From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
Cool... too bad I'm 6' 4" extra fat. :-(
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage and Fuse framed up - Working on Landing Gear
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382287#382287
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jorge lizarraga <flightwood(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | to all good guys from these list |
hi guys, Im bery sorried for my mistake unsubscribe these great list ,Im tr
ate to unsubscrib from aereovee grup and cansel all,like you know trate to
sale my old never used aereov.w. in these grup ,was so big mistake was peop
le from sonex aircraf or somthing, bery crude ,rasist and ofensive people i
n there, that was all way be tanksfull from pietenpol comunity to have good
person frienly and bery cain ,helping all way true to all we need somthing
, tanks again people for by so nice and grat friens .again tanks-jorge f
rom hanfor.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Straight Exhaust |
| From: | "Pieti Lowell" <Lowellcfrank(at)yahoo.com> |
Milk piping SS welded on 3/16 SS plate
Pieti Lowell
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382300#382300
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/horizontal_flow_radiator_001_194.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Straight Exhaust |
| From: | "Pieti Lowell" <Lowellcfrank(at)yahoo.com> |
Sorry guys wrong side
Pieti Lowell
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382301#382301
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/radiator_shot_12_26_10_410.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "hanford68" <flightwood(at)yahoo.com> |
hello guys , simple q these time is possible im the only one not get mail from
matronic list tanks jorge from hanford [Embarassed]
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382308#382308
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark Roberts" <mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com> |
I think the activity has been slow this week... Maybe due to the holiday weekend.
I have still been working to finish the large video project I have been working
on, so I have not been very active on my project for a while...
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382309#382309
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jorge lizarraga <flightwood(at)yahoo.com> |
keeping workin mark and sooner you haved time for piet from my is like mixe
d week som hours som not finished my 16 ribs in 38 days and attachet parts
for my cylinder brakes well is some in one wheeck but need more metal work
in those attachment parts jope seyou nex jorge from hanford=0A=0A=0AFrom: M
ark Roberts =0ATo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com =0AS
ent: Sunday, September 2, 2012 9:08 PM=0ASubject: Pietenpol-List: Re: to al
s1(at)gmail.com>=0A=0AI think the activity has been slow this week... Maybe du
e to the holiday weekend.=0A=0AI have still been working to finish the larg
e video project I have been working on, so I have not been very active on m
y project for a while...=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here:=0A=0Aht
tp://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382309#382309=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A
================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> |
Hey Lowell (pieti)
We'll miss your plane at Brodhead as she's been quite the institution for so
many years. I hope you can get the "green light" from the docs to go flying
again, but until then, keep coming yourself. It'll keep you young!
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Barnwell Regional Airport" <barnwellairport(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Don Harpers Pietenpol |
Attached picture of of Don Harpers Piet making it's first engine run
after filling fuel tank with gas. Taxi testing will start shortly.
After the first flight, more info will be posted.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Don Harpers Pietenpol |
| From: | "John Francis" <Mrkringles(at)msn.com> |
Looks like a mighty fine aircraft Don! Can't wait to hear the flying numbers.
I took a nap while the picture was downloading on my computer! Just kidding, but
here is a smaller version of the same for those with slow connections.
--------
John Francis
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382328#382328
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0976_110_136.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Don Harpers Pietenpol |
| From: | gboothe5(at)comcast.net |
Beautiful, Don!
------Original Message------
From: John Francis
Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
ReplyTo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Don Harpers Pietenpol
Sent: Sep 3, 2012 8:23 AM
Looks like a mighty fine aircraft Don! Can't wait to hear the flying numbers.
I took a nap while the picture was downloading on my computer! Just kidding, but
here is a smaller version of the same for those with slow connections.
--------
John Francis
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382328#382328
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0976_110_136.jpg
Sent on the Sprint Now Network from my BlackBerry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | airlion <airlion(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Don Harpers Pietenpol |
Looks wonderful Don. When do you fly?Gardiner
--- On Mon, 9/3/12, Barnwell Regional Airport wrote:
From: Barnwell Regional Airport <barnwellairport(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Don Harpers Pietenpol
Date: Monday, September 3, 2012, 11:02 AM
Attached picture of of Don Harpers Piet making it's first engine run after
filling fuel tank with gas. Taxi testing will start shortly.
-
After the first flight, more info will be posted.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Don Harpers Pietenpol |
| From: | "Pieti Lowell" <Lowellcfrank(at)yahoo.com> |
Don:
She is gorgeous, I have two questions,
1.Don, is the leading wing edge with more radii ?
2. Is the damaged pointing finger, aircraft related ?
Pieti Lowell
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382347#382347
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Don Harpers Pietenpol |
| From: | "Mark Roberts" <mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com> |
Jealousy doesn't look good on me...
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382358#382358
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Barnwell Regional Airport" <barnwellairport(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Don Harpers new Pietenpol |
Congratulations to Lowel for noting that the leading edge on Don's new
Pietenpol is a little different . It is actualy a Riblet 612 airfoil.
How does it fly? At this point, I've only done some high speed
taxing. Several minor things were noted and are being corrected
Don is working on getting paperwork together for inspected, scheduling a
DAR, etc.
More about flight information later.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Don Harpers new Pietenpol |
| From: | helspersew(at)aol.com |
Hi P.F.,
Beautiful airplane indeed. The flight testing of Don's airplane will be the
"final word" on the "airfoil wars", right? You and Don were telling me at
Brodhead that his airplane is pretty much identical to yours with the excep
tion of the Riblet airfoil, correct?
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN
-----Original Message-----
From: Barnwell Regional Airport <barnwellairport(at)bellsouth.net>
Sent: Tue, Sep 4, 2012 6:58 am
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Don Harpers new Pietenpol
Congratulations to Lowel for noting that the leading edge on Don's new Piet
enpol is a little different . It is actualy a Riblet 612 airfoil.
How does it fly? At this point, I've only done some high speed taxing.
Several minor things were noted and are being corrected
Don is working on getting paperwork together for inspected, scheduling a DA
R, etc.
More about flight information later.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "TOM STINEMETZE" <TOMS(at)mcpcity.com> |
| Subject: | Re: cool vintage style wool coveralls |
Douwe:
Thanks for the link. However the only size they offer is Large and if
that is tight on your 155 lbs then it would be an impossible fit on my
220. Thanks for the dream though.
Tom Stinemetze
McPherson, KS.
>>> "Douwe Blumberg" 9/1/2012 8:00 PM
>>>
Hey all,
If any of you are into vintage flying clothes and arent too large
Ck out Sportsmans guide. Just found the coolest set of vintage
style wool blend Italian coveralls (WX2-206131 New Italian Military
Issue Wool Coveralls, Gray)
which are identical to those Ive seen pictured being worn by
aviators in the thirties. $23 just got me a pair and they are awesome!
Even though they are marked large though, they are barely large enough
for me, and Im only 59 and weigh 155. The quality though seems
excellent and the styling is perfect for those of us who like to look
the part. Just ordered a second pair because these wont ever come
back Im guessing.
Enjoy!
Douwe
http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/new-italian-military-issue-wool-coveralls-gray.aspx?a=891164
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> |
Congratulations Don! Nice looking plane!!
Wow, a veritable tidal wave of Corvairs.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Barnwell Regional Airport" <barnwellairport(at)bellsouth.net> |
Answers to two questions from Paul and Dan
Paul-"little mufflers" are empty propane gas cylinders made internally
like a car muffler- seem to work well- can tell you more after first
flight
Dan-After we get Don's plane flying, then I'll do a comparisin test and
write it up for the Piet community. More to come later.
All for now
P. F.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | good guys from these list |
You're in good company here Jorge as there are many, many fine people on th
is Pietenpol list that are helpful, positive, and
have good hearts. Sorry to hear you didn't have such a good experience on
the Sonex list.
Glad you are back on the Pietenpol list. Best wishes on selling your Aero
Vee engine. Maybe you can get some buyers for that
engine on Barnstormers.com
Keep us posted on your progress and send pictures when you can!
Mike Cuy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | a way to avoid routing spars |
Curt--Many ways to make your spars including routing but I chose to go a di
fferent 'route' if you'll excuse
the pun.
Here's what I did to fabricate my wing spars and the sketch also shows how
I would do it over again next time.
Mike C.
Good to meet you and your daughter at Brodhead!!!!!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Latest visitor to my project..... |
| From: | "aerocarjake" <flight.jake(at)gmail.com> |
About 10 feet away - walked out of the forest - I rolled him an apple....!
Love having my condo workshop next to the greenbelt. We are truly fortunate to
be involved with this creative endeavor of vintage aeroplane construction...!
Time well spent...!!
--------
Jake Schultz - curator,
Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382392#382392
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/deer_pietenpol_199.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Don Harpers Pietenpol |
| From: | "dwilson" <marwilson(at)charter.net> |
Very Nice! How about a couple of pictures with the cowling off?
Dan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382400#382400
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: a way to avoid routing spars |
| From: | "Billy McCaskill" <billmz(at)cox.net> |
This is a great suggestion, Mike. Your proposed method would produce spars just
as strong as solid ones that were routed, and at less cost than buying full
3/4" or 1" thick spar blanks.
This post could also turn into a "what I would do differently next time" thread,
compiled by those who have successfully built and flown their Piets. So who
else has suggestions for what they would do differently if they were to build
their plane again?
--------
Billy McCaskill
Baker, LA
tail section almost done, starting on ribs soon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382401#382401
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | what I would do differently, wing spars and other things |
Thank you Billy! As I recall I (and others) have calculated that my built-up
sitka spruce spars cost a little more than routed 'full figured'
spars but to me the simple built up spars are so easy to build and you never have
to worry about ruining a spar with your router.
On my Piet I raised the pilot seat 2" for better forward visibility on takeoff
and landing. I wouldn't do that again because in cruise there is
too much of my upper body out of the cockpit and I have to slouch down to get out
of the wind.
If I wanted to I could have added seat cushions to be higher in the seat but as
it is now I can't even add a seat cushion. (fortunately I have
enough natural padding that I don't require a cushion. )
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: what I would do differently, wing spars and other |
things
| From: | "Billy McCaskill" <billmz(at)cox.net> |
Ok, so far we have built up spars and keeping the pilot seat at stock height.
Others have said to lean the Pilot's seat back 2" to improve comfort. What else
does anyone have to offer, aside from the time-tested advice to "build it to
the plans", and "simplicate and add lightness"?
--------
Billy McCaskill
Baker, LA
tail section almost done, starting on ribs soon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382406#382406
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: what I would do differently, wing spars and other |
things
1. I made my fuselage 1" wider than plans, in the belief that the standard
size would be too tight. WRONG. I've flown several standard size Piets and
fit just fine. Making it wider costs more in plywood and spruce and adds
weight. It also changes the cabane strut to spar interface.
2. I used standard "medium weight" fabric. Next time I cover it I will use
the light weight stuff. Not only is the fabric lighter, but it requires
less polyspray and paint to fill the weave.
3. I used PolyFiber Aerothane polyurethane paint. Big Mistake. It is VERY
heavy, is difficult to paint, is VERY expensive, and is very difficult to
repair (the only way to remove it is to sand it off). Between the fabric
and the paint I believe my Pietenpol is 60 lbs heavier than it needed to be.
4. I used the plans seatback angle for the rear seat. If I did it again, I
would move the top of the rear seat 2" aft, keeping the bottom at the plans
location. It would be much more comfortable.
5. I mounted my brake master cylinders in a position that makes bleeding
the brakes one of my least favorite activities (right behind changing the
bungees). Basically, in order to let air bubbles flow uphill, as they want
to do, I have to literally stand the airplane on its nose with the tail way
up in the air. Think about maintenance when you are installing things in
your airplane.
6. The way I made my engine cowling requires that I disconnect my carb heat
and cabin heat SCAT hoses before I can remove the lower cowling. I wish I
had made it differently so cowling removal (and reinstallation) could be
done by myself. I always have to have help with the current design.
I'll have to think about what else I would do differently - these are the
main things in my airplane that I would change.
Now there are a few changes from the plans that I made that I would
definitely do again:
1. Wider centersection (and larger fuel tank). More lift and more fuel is
always a good thing.
2. Access panel under the belly, providing access to inspect and lubricate
the elevator bellcrank. In my case, it also allows inspection of the trim
system (see item 3), and replacing the batteries in the ELT
3. Elevator trim system. I used a variant of the Mike Cuy spring-type trim
system and it works well. I rarely use it, but when I'm making a long trip
(such as flying to Brodhead) and have a load in my baggage compartment in
the nose, the need for trim becomes apparent.
4. Cabane struts 2-3/4" taller than plans. Makes for much greater ease of
entry and exit, and better visibility. I've flown John Hofmann's
"N502Rocket" and since I'm not as properly sized as John is, I find I have
to lay down on the turtledeck and slide myself into the cockpit under the
wing, sort of like sliding a letter into an envelope.
5. Circular Cutout for the trailing edge, again for ease of entry / egress.
I suppose a flop would work as well, but I like the visibility the cutout
gives me to search above me for black & yellow Germans
6. Avionics in the centersection. This is only necessary if you want
avionics, but there is no other good place to put them and it works
exceedingly well.
7. Access panel in the front seatback top, giving access to the rear
instrument panel. I also installed a laminated copy of the entire
airplane's wiring schematic (significant since I have a radio, a
transponder, an intercom, a smoke system and a Ah-Ooooga horn in mine).
Your mileage may vary.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Billy
McCaskill
Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2012 4:56 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: what I would do differently, wing spars and
other things
Ok, so far we have built up spars and keeping the pilot seat at stock
height. Others have said to lean the Pilot's seat back 2" to improve
comfort. What else does anyone have to offer, aside from the time-tested
advice to "build it to the plans", and "simplicate and add lightness"?
--------
Billy McCaskill
Baker, LA
tail section almost done, starting on ribs soon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382406#382406
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "bender" <jfaith(at)solairusaviation.com> |
i've been working the holiday weekend away and heres what i got..
its not black..
Charleston green..
there may be a logo or a stripe in the near future..we'll see
its kinda fun putting the right hardware and fresh painted parts together
jeff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382411#382411
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/gearpaint_659.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ryan M <aircamperace(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: a little update |
Beautiful!=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0A From: bender <jfa
ith(at)solairusaviation.com>=0ATo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com =0ASent: Tuesd
ay, September 4, 2012 7:14 PM=0ASubject: Pietenpol-List: a little update=0A
.com>=0A=0Ai've been working the holiday weekend away and heres what i got.
.=0A=0Aits not black..=0ACharleston green..=0Athere may be a logo or a stri
pe in the near future..we'll see=0A=0Aits kinda fun putting the right hardw
are and fresh painted parts together=0A=0A=0Ajeff=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this t
opic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382411
#382411=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AAttachments: =0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com//files
=
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: what I would do differently, wing spars and other |
things
| From: | "Billy McCaskill" <billmz(at)cox.net> |
Great suggestions, Jack. Keep the ideas coming, good people!
--------
Billy McCaskill
Baker, LA
tail section almost done, starting on ribs soon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382415#382415
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
Looks great, Jeff. This is one of the crowning moments of building an
airplane
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ryan M
Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2012 7:29 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: a little update
Beautiful!
_____
From: bender <jfaith(at)solairusaviation.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 4, 2012 7:14 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: a little update
i've been working the holiday weekend away and heres what i got..
its not black..
Charleston green..
there may be a logo or a stripe in the near future..we'll see
its kinda fun putting the right hardware and fresh painted parts together
jeff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382411#382411
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/gearpaint_659.jpg
/Navigator?Pietenpol-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navig
- MATRONICS WEB FORUMS= -->
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: a way to avoid routing spars |
| From: | helspersew(at)aol.com |
"So who else has suggestions for what they would do differently if they wer
e to
build their plane again?"
Fellows, this is a dangerous road to begin walking down. OK, I resisted rep
lying to Mikie's post, but this is going on too long, too far...........May
I remind you that y'all are in jeopardy of being disqualified on being abl
e to call your ship a "Pietenpol". There are no Pietenpol plans (that I kno
w of) that mention anything but routed spars from solid spruce. Sorry, but
don't kill the messenger...................
Since the Top Curmudgeon has taken a leave of absence from this list, I fea
r that there will be no one to herd the masses in the right direction. That
is why I feel compelled to mention this.
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN
-----Original Message-----
From: Billy McCaskill <billmz(at)cox.net>
Sent: Tue, Sep 4, 2012 2:48 pm
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: a way to avoid routing spars
This is a great suggestion, Mike. Your proposed method would produce spars
just
as strong as solid ones that were routed, and at less cost than buying full
3/4"
or 1" thick spar blanks.
This post could also turn into a "what I would do differently next time"
thread, compiled by those who have successfully built and flown their Piets
. So
who else has suggestions for what they would do differently if they were to
build their plane again?
--------
Billy McCaskill
Baker, LA
tail section almost done, starting on ribs soon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382401#382401
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: a way to avoid routing spars |
Don't invest too much energy, Dan. I'm afraid you will be as successful as
was he!
Gary Boothe
NX308MB
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
helspersew(at)aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2012 5:00 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: a way to avoid routing spars
"So who else has suggestions for what they would do differently if they were
to
build their plane again?"
Fellows, this is a dangerous road to begin walking down. OK, I resisted
replying to Mikie's post, but this is going on too long, too
far...........May I remind you that y'all are in jeopardy of being
disqualified on being able to call your ship a "Pietenpol". There are no
Pietenpol plans (that I know of) that mention anything but routed spars from
solid spruce. Sorry, but don't kill the messenger...................
Since the Top Curmudgeon has taken a leave of absence from this list, I fear
that there will be no one to herd the masses in the right direction. That is
why I feel compelled to mention this.
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN
-----Original Message-----
From: Billy McCaskill <billmz(at)cox.net>
Sent: Tue, Sep 4, 2012 2:48 pm
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: a way to avoid routing spars
This is a great suggestion, Mike. Your proposed method would produce spars
just
as strong as solid ones that were routed, and at less cost than buying full
3/4"
or 1" thick spar blanks.
This post could also turn into a "what I would do differently next time"
thread, compiled by those who have successfully built and flown their Piets.
So
who else has suggestions for what they would do differently if they were to
build their plane again?
--------
Billy McCaskill
Baker, LA
tail section almost done, starting on ribs soon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382401#382401
" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB" <steven.d.dortch(at)us.army.mil> |
| Subject: | Re: Don Harpers Pietenpol |
Oh My!
----- Original Message -----
From: gboothe5(at)comcast.net
Date: Monday, September 3, 2012 10:56
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Don Harpers Pietenpol
>
> Beautiful, Don!
> ------Original Message------
> From: John Francis
> Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> ReplyTo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Don Harpers Pietenpol
> Sent: Sep 3, 2012 8:23 AM
>
>
> Looks like a mighty fine aircraft Don! Can't wait to hear the flying numbers.
>
> I took a nap while the picture was downloading on my computer! Just kidding,
but here is a smaller version of the same for those with slow connections.
>
> --------
> John Francis
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382328#382328
>
>
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0976_110_136.jpg
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Sent on the Sprint Now Network from my BlackBerry
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Doug Dever <helio400(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: a way to avoid routing spars |
Mike,- Any idea how much weight savings over the solid 3/4 spars?=0A-
=0A-=0ADoug Dever=0Ain beautiful Stow Ohio=0A-=0A=0A=0A________________
________________=0AFrom: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]
" =0ATo: "pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com" =0ASent: Tuesday, September 4, 2012 2:16 PM=0ASubject:
Pietenpol-List: a way to avoid routing spars=0A=0ACurt--Many ways to make y
our spars including routing but I chose to go a different 'route' if you'll
excuse=0Athe pun. =0A=0AHere's what I did to fabricate my wing spars and t
he sketch also shows how I would do it over again next time. =0A=0AMike C.
=0A=0AGood to meet you and your daughter at Brodhead!!!!!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "skipgadd(at)earthlink.net" <skipgadd(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Piet parts to Brodhead |
Anybody going to the MAAC fly-in this weekend?
Dave Stephens sold his Piet to someone in the Brodhead area and it has been taken
apart, we took off the wings yesterday. Dave and I will deliver the Piet parts
to Brodhead Airport this weekend. Mike Weeden is to help the new owner build
an aircraft with the parts. I think they are going to send the Corvair back
to WW for the 5th bearing.
Skip
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | a way to avoid routing spars |
Calculate it. Sitka Spruce has a density of 21.86 lbs/ft3.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Doug Dever
Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2012 8:00 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: a way to avoid routing spars
Mike, Any idea how much weight savings over the solid 3/4 spars?
Doug Dever
in beautiful Stow Ohio
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]"
Sent: Tuesday, September 4, 2012 2:16 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: a way to avoid routing spars
Curt--Many ways to make your spars including routing but I chose to go a
different 'route' if you'll excuse
the pun.
Here's what I did to fabricate my wing spars and the sketch also shows how I
would do it over again next time.
Mike C.
Good to meet you and your daughter at Brodhead!!!!!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: a way to avoid routing spars |
| From: | Ken Bickers <bickers.ken(at)gmail.com> |
... ahh the archives. Here is what I posted back on 2/19/2011 under
the subject line "Routed Spar Weight"
>From time to time, the question of what spars to use arises. I
thought it might be useful to share a bit of data on
the amount of weight saved by using routed spars.
For Christmas, my family ordered spar blanks from Aircraft Spruce for
me -- proving yet again how lucky I am. After
several weeks of anticipation, four beautiful Sitka Spruce planks
arrived. Each was 1" x 5", 14' long.
I deviated from the plans in two respects. One, I decided to take
advantage of the extra length and opted to add 9" to
each wing. So my outer wing panels, with the attached wing tip bows,
will be 14' 0.5" long. This will produce
a wing that is 30' 6" from wing tip to wing tip. Two, I also opted
not to reduce the spar blanks to a 4.75" by 1" rectangle,
but to bevel the top edge of each to match the interior space of the
ribs. As a result, my front two spars are 4.75" tall
on the forward face and 5" tall on the rear face. The rear two spars
are 4.875" tall on the forward face and 4.75" on the
aft face. The routed sections, however, ignore the extra material at
the top of each spar. That is, were I to shave off the
extra area, I would still have the flanges that are specified in the
plans. Please keep these deviations in mind, because
they will affect the specific weight savings that others might obtain.
After much trepidation and construction of a set of simple jigs, I was
ready to take my router to the spar blanks. To avoid
sharp transitions, I used a bull nose router bit (i.e., shaped like a
capital U) to make chamfered half circles at each
end of the routed sections, as well as to chamfer the full straight
edge that forms the upper and lower flanges. I then
used a straight router bit to eat out the wood in the interior of the
chamfered race track-like sections. I followed the plans
in leaving the section where the strut fittings attach unrouted (18"),
the 4.5" triangle-ish outboard section, and the 7" inboard
section. I also left a section of about 5.5" unrouted where the jury
strut fittings will attach.
With that explanation, here are the data:
Pre-routed Starboard Front Spar . . . 12 lbs 9.6 oz Routed
Staboard Front Spar . . . 9 lbs 10.0 oz
Pre-routed Port Front Spar . . . 12 lbs 13.8 oz Routed
Port Front Spar . . . 9 lbs 13.6 oz
Pre-routed Starboard Rear Spar . . . 12 lbs 5.4 oz. Routed
Starboard Rear Spar . . . 9 lbs 6.6 oz.
Pre-routed Port Rear Spar . . . 12 lbs 6.4 oz Routed
Port Rear Spar . . . 9 lbs 7.4 oz
For each spar, the routing saves almost exactly 3 lbs. The reduction
is from approx 50 lbs of total spar weight to
approx 38 lbs of total spar weight.
As for the time involved, it took me about 2 hours per spar to do the
routing, plus another 15 minutes or so for
each one to vacuum up the mess. There was another 2 or 3 hours of
sanding inivolved. I probably spent about
the same total time, pondering, worrying, and jig building before I
ever touched the router to the spar blanks.
Cheers, Ken
On Wed, Sep 5, 2012 at 7:43 AM, Jack Phillips wrote:
> Calculate it. Sitka Spruce has a density of 21.86 lbs/ft3.
>
>
> Jack Phillips
>
> NX899JP
>
> Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Doug Dever
> Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2012 8:00 AM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: a way to avoid routing spars
>
>
> Mike, Any idea how much weight savings over the solid 3/4 spars?
>
>
> Doug Dever
>
> in beautiful Stow Ohio
>
>
> From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]"
>
> To: "pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com"
> Sent: Tuesday, September 4, 2012 2:16 PM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: a way to avoid routing spars
>
>
> Curt--Many ways to make your spars including routing but I chose to go a
> different 'route' if you'll excuse
> the pun.
>
> Here's what I did to fabricate my wing spars and the sketch also shows how I
> would do it over again next time.
>
> Mike C.
>
> Good to meet you and your daughter at Brodhead!!!!!!
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>
> http://forums.matronics.com
>
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: a way to avoid routing spars |
| From: | "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com> |
Here's some considerations around spar construction that don't seem to have been
addressed very much.
First, wt savings 1" routed vs 3/4" solid. Calculating it out, going to be about
a toss up. I suspect the 1" routed (I beam) is stronger than a 3/4" solid...
by enough to be worthwhile.. no clue. Given how many champ wings are out there
with 3/4 solid, I'd say probably not enough to matter.
Here's some lesser known issues around wood purchasing. Frequently there is a
premium on buying wood that isn't a "standard" size. What that means is that
4/4 (one inch thick before surfacing) is the most common thickness available.
You should be able to yield a 3/4" solid spar out of that stock if you're buying
rough (as in from McCormicks or somewhere). That's probably going to be the
most economical all around and for not super well equipped wood shops.
Many places sell 1/2" at the same price or MORE than 3/4, as they simply plane
4/4 stock down to half of what it was. Takes longer, more passes through the
planer, so it cost more.
If you can find some 5/4 (1 1/4" before surfacing), you can plane to 1" finished
and rout, or more economical yet, resaw to 5/8 then plane to 1/2" (if you're
careful and good at resawing).
>From somewhere like aircraft spruce, 5/4 is probably prohibitive. From a lumber
supplier, probably very little if any premium for 5/4 over 4/4, you'll just
have less to select from and it'll be about 25 percent more expensive, because
you're getting 25 percent more lumber. The price per board foot, is usually
the same. A board foot is 144 cubic inches, 12x12x1.
Mike's built up spars will definitely make the most out of the lumber you have,
but you'll need a good cabinet shop full of tools to get the most out of it.
If you have that, great! If not, factor in shop services.
Quick question for Mike, what are you doing to build up the sections where fittings
hook up? Using plywood, or spruce?
The bottom line is that you're paying for spruce (or nice doug fir) by the cubic
inch. The less of them you turn into sawdust, router or planer shavings, the
cheaper. As we know from the weight savings posts (about a very consistent
12 lbs per spar set), you're turning about 25 percent of your spruce into dust.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382445#382445
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Article on Brodhead in current Atlantic Flyer |
| From: | woodflier(at)aol.com |
The Atlantic Flyer has a nice article on the July Brodhead Pietenpol Flyin.
Dan Helsper's Yellow German and Dan Luke/Rob Bach's airplane got mentioned
and there were some pics that brought back memories.
Here's a link to the article online:
http://www.aflyer.com/1209_c_antiqueattic.html
Matt Paxton
NX629ML
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Piet parts to Brodhead |
| From: | "899PM" <rockriverrifle(at)hotmail.com> |
Skip,
I will be there all weekend. Do you need help with anything?
Mike Cushway
--------
PAPA MIKE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382448#382448
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | filling up the spar web sections---with 1/4" thick mahogany |
or birch ply
Tools,
I built up the areas where I had to attach wing fittings with 1/4" mahogany
plywood on each side of
the web area. I chamfered the ends of those filler plates on the advice o
f an aeronautical engineer.
I attached an example in the form of a sketch which should help to illustra
te how I did this.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: filling up the spar web sections---with 1/4" thick |
mahogany or birch ply
I like that design. Worked out really well (so far) for me. Also wonder if it
might be good to add some curve to those filler pieces, as shown on in the attached?
Maybe eliminate a stress riser at point A on the dwg? Where the filler
ply meets the cap filler strip at 90 degrees? Personally, I don't think it's
worth the effort but certainly worth thinking about.
JM
-----Original Message-----
>From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
>Sent: Sep 5, 2012 11:14 AM
>To: "pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com"
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: filling up the spar web sections---with 1/4" thick mahogany
or birch ply
>
>Tools,
>
>I built up the areas where I had to attach wing fittings with 1/4" mahogany plywood
on each side of
>the web area. I chamfered the ends of those filler plates on the advice of an
aeronautical engineer.
>
>I attached an example in the form of a sketch which should help to illustrate
how I did this.
>
>Mike C.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Piet parts to Brodhead |
Dang, I'm stating to get that old familiar "we're going to Brodhead and you're
not..." feeling...again.
I hate that....
-----Original Message-----
>From: 899PM <rockriverrifle(at)hotmail.com>
>Sent: Sep 5, 2012 10:51 AM
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Piet parts to Brodhead
>
>
>Skip,
>
>I will be there all weekend. Do you need help with anything?
>
>Mike Cushway
>
>--------
>PAPA MIKE
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382448#382448
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "skipgadd(at)earthlink.net" <skipgadd(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Piet parts to Brodhead |
Mike,
Thanks for the offer.
When you see the attached, pulling a trailer with wings, come on over.
Though I belive Mike Weeden will have necessary help lined up.
Skip
> [Original Message]
> From: 899PM <rockriverrifle(at)hotmail.com>
> To:
> Date: 9/5/2012 11:53:54 AM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Piet parts to Brodhead
>
>
> Skip,
>
> I will be there all weekend. Do you need help with anything?
>
> Mike Cushway
>
> --------
> PAPA MIKE
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382448#382448
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "skipgadd(at)earthlink.net" <skipgadd(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Piet parts to Brodhead |
Jim,
Know what you mean. When David said he was going to deliver his Piet to
Brodhead, I thought gee I'll bet he could use some help. The MAAC fly-in is
just icing on the cake.
Skip
> [Original Message]
> From: Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
> To:
> Date: 9/5/2012 12:38:15 PM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Piet parts to Brodhead
>
>
> Dang, I'm stating to get that old familiar "we're going to Brodhead and
you're not..." feeling...again.
>
> I hate that....
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Looking for a steel tube piet |
| From: | "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com> |
Greg,
I happened to see this today on Barnstormers. Don't know anything about it, but
I thought I would pass it along. Hope it helps.
--------
Semper Fi,
Terry Hand
Athens, GA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382466#382466
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: a way to avoid routing spars |
| From: | "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com> |
So, Tools, are there savings to be gained (Both in your wallet as well as your
aircraft's gross weight) in building up an I-beam type spar or is it about even
with buying a solid spar and routing it. Or just leaving it alone and accepting
an extra 12 pounds of weight and no extra work.
Your thoughts?
--------
Semper Fi,
Terry Hand
Athens, GA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382471#382471
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: a way to avoid routing spars |
| From: | "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com> |
Time or money...
The best for me is going to be culling through McCormick's for a nice 1 1/8" board
that's in the 4/4 pile (which they have), then resaw and make 1/2" planks,
and build up to an i-beam. I'll do like Mike's "next time" but make the parts
added a bit wider, use spruce instead of plywood (to avoid cross grain construction)
and then rout to give the requisite filets to avoid stress risers.
The down side is it's an enormous amount of work and will require a ton of tools,
which I'm lucky enough to have.
Based on the wood I bought there for my tail feathers, my 4 spars will cost around
$160 total.
It's ABSOLUTELY not worth carrying around the extra 12 lbs no matter how you do
it. Routing the spars is easy. If you don't want to rout, then use 3/4 solid.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382474#382474
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: a way to avoid routing spars |
| From: | "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com> |
Oh ya, the other part of the question.
Just buying and routing is the easiest, but will require me buying 4 boards so
will be about $320.
Not having access to a bandsaw that resaws well, a planer, tablesaw, a bazillion
clamps, a jointer and a place to build up a 30' long spar might make the solid
and rout option cheaper at $320.
Building up without resawing is kind of the worst of both worlds unless you can
get 1/2" (surfaced, 3/4 rough, which is rare) by the bdft.
Having access to planers and jointers allows the use of rough lumber. I'm not
sure if you can buy certified aircraft spruce rough or not. Presurfaced and certified
from AC Spruce is probably $20/bdft, where good spar grade (but not officially
certified) sitka from McCormicks is about $8/bdft.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382475#382475
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Stromberg NA-S3A1 |
I'm sure there are several of you that fly, or have flown, with this carb. I
am wondering if it is characteristic for it to stumble if the throttle is
advanced too quickly.
Gary Boothe
NX308MB
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Stromberg NA-S3A1 |
| From: | "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com> |
No accelerator pump. So, yes, it is.
It goes lean. I mitigate it by advancing the throttle (on a go around or touch
and go) with the carb heat still on (which richens the mixture), then after the
power is up, pulling it off.
Mine started popping on one flight. Thought I was just getting lazy and advancing
much too quickly. Turns out, one of my primer lines broke, allowing a cylinder
to lean out... So, hesitation seems normal and is mentioned by most who
fly that carb, but backfiring is NOT.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382479#382479
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Stromberg NA-S3A1 |
Thanks, Tools!
Gary Boothe
NX308MB
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of tools
Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2012 7:10 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Stromberg NA-S3A1
No accelerator pump. So, yes, it is.
It goes lean. I mitigate it by advancing the throttle (on a go around or
touch and go) with the carb heat still on (which richens the mixture), then
after the power is up, pulling it off.
Mine started popping on one flight. Thought I was just getting lazy and
advancing much too quickly. Turns out, one of my primer lines broke,
allowing a cylinder to lean out... So, hesitation seems normal and is
mentioned by most who fly that carb, but backfiring is NOT.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382479#382479
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Stromberg NA-S3A1 |
Gary...Yes it stumbles. Occasionally it even stops after a landing run. I blocked
a runway two weeks ago!
Tools method of using 'Carb Hot Air' is one I haven't tried so that is worth knowing.
Mine is also reported as 'popping' when descending over Strip throttled back with
Carb Hot Air on.
Other than that, it's a real old A75!
Gerry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Clif Dawson" <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: a way to avoid routing spars |
Uh, Jack, I think you'll find that to be 31 lb at
12% moisture content. At least according
to the US Forest Products Lab.
The closest you're going to get to that is
Western Red Cedar with a corresponding
reduction in strength.
Clif
Calculate it. Sitka Spruce has a density of 21.86 lbs/ft3.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Stromberg NA-S3A1 |
| From: | gboothe5(at)comcast.net |
Thanks, Gerry. I can stop chasing ghosts!
------Original Message------
From: Gerry Holland
Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
ReplyTo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Stromberg NA-S3A1
Sent: Sep 5, 2012 10:37 PM
Gary...Yes it stumbles. Occasionally it even stops after a landing run. I blocked
a runway two weeks ago!
Tools method of using 'Carb Hot Air' is one I haven't tried so that is worth knowing.
Mine is also reported as 'popping' when descending over Strip throttled back with
Carb Hot Air on.
Other than that, it's a real old A75!
Gerry
Sent on the Sprint Now Network from my BlackBerry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ben Charvet <bencharvet(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Stromberg NA-S3A1 |
After a few stumbles like that you get used to advancing the throttle
slowly. You don't want to disconcert the masses (or your passengers)
Ben Charvet
NX866BC A-65
On 9/5/2012 9:58 PM, Gary Boothe wrote:
>
> I'm sure there are several of you that fly, or have flown, with this
> carb. I am wondering if it is characteristic for it to stumble if the
> throttle is advanced too quickly.
>
> Gary Boothe
>
> NX308MB
>
> *
>
>
> *
--
Ben Charvet, PharmD
Staff Pharmacist
Parrish Medical center
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Stromberg NA-S3A1 |
Gary,
I have no accelerator pump on my NA-S3A1 and it does not stumble unless it is cooler
weather (55F or colder) and I haven't
warmed up the engine thoroughly. (of course your engine and induction system
are completely different than my A-65 setup)
If I advance the throttle smoothly on takeoff or in flight after some slow flight
the engine never stumbles. (thankfully)
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Stromberg NA-S3A1 |
| From: | "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com> |
Here's another tidbit I just learned. Apparently aircraft carbs run very rich
at full idle, to help with cooling (since the prop is so slow, not nearly as much
cooling there). If you open the throttle just a tad, it gets it off the idle
circuit, where it's more like a regular carb.
Sure enough, when it's hot and I'm flying young eagles in a Glastar, on the rollout
the engine gets VERY rough and is on the verge of quitting. I advance the
throttle just a bit and get it off idle circuit and that helps a ton.
Also, when trying to hot start, I'll keep it off the idle circuit to avoid or lessen
the effects of flooding.
Hand propping is a different matter. I'd NEVER try that while hand propping alone.
I haven't flown the piet enough repetitively on a hot day like that to be
a problem. I have found that it's easier to flood on hot days and I go through
the standard a65 unflood routine, and it starts first flip afterwards.
Because of the success there, I haven't tried hand propping with someone else in
the cockpit with the carb off the idle circuit.
Now, how this affects cold starting and prime is... EVERY time I've had the engine
catch and run a few revolutions, I can't get it started easily after that
point. Well, it's just like pulling it through, and with the engine on the extra
rich idle circuit, it floods. Now, every time it catches a few revs and quits,
I just turn the mags off, open the throt and pull it backwards a dozen pulls,
reset everything and viola, easy start 1st pull after that.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382495#382495
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Stromberg NA-S3A1 |
| From: | gboothe5(at)comcast.net |
Thanks, Mike! There was some talk on the Piper Super Cub list about slightly enrichening
the mixture to help ease the problem. You may already be there.
Gary
------Original Message------
From: Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]
Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
ReplyTo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Stromberg NA-S3A1
Sent: Sep 6, 2012 6:07 AM
Gary,
I have no accelerator pump on my NA-S3A1 and it does not stumble unless it is cooler
weather (55F or colder) and I haven't
warmed up the engine thoroughly. (of course your engine and induction system
are completely different than my A-65 setup)
If I advance the throttle smoothly on takeoff or in flight after some slow flight
the engine never stumbles. (thankfully)
Mike C.
Sent on the Sprint Now Network from my BlackBerry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SENTUCHOWS(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Stromberg NA-S3A1 |
The Stromberg carb is a good one. It shouldn't stumble if adjusted
properly. Please read Harry Fenton's Advice on the Flybaby site. I just reb
uilt an
A-65 and the stromberg carb that is on it. and It doesn't stumble.
Dave
In a message dated 9/6/2012 9:22:41 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
gboothe5(at)comcast.net writes:
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: gboothe5(at)comcast.net
Thanks, Mike! There was some talk on the Piper Super Cub list about
slightly enrichening the mixture to help ease the problem. You may already
be
there.
Gary
------Original Message------
From: Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]
Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
ReplyTo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Stromberg NA-S3A1
Sent: Sep 6, 2012 6:07 AM
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage
Partners, LLC]"
Gary,
I have no accelerator pump on my NA-S3A1 and it does not stumble unless it
is cooler weather (55F or colder) and I haven't
warmed up the engine thoroughly. (of course your engine and induction
system are completely different than my A-65 setup)
If I advance the throttle smoothly on takeoff or in flight after some slow
flight the engine never stumbles. (thankfully)
Mike C.
Sent on the Sprint=AE Now Network from my BlackBerry=AE
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Stromberg NA-S3A1 |
| From: | "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com> |
Dick bought my carb at Sun-n-fun and just sent it out for a complete rebuild.
And in it's defense, it NEVER stumbled on me (except for the broke primer line)
except while adding power to taxi IMMEDIATELY after startup.
However, I was warned (by quite a few people) that just firewalling it with no
regard wasn't a good idea, and knowing it has no accelator pump, it made sense.
I started the carb heat routine while I was troubleshooting the backfiring
(lean condition) caused by the broke primer line, and it helped quite a bit, which
lets me know it would help with a lean condition caused by quick acceleration
and no accelerator pump.
Also, it didn't make sense to waste time taking my hand off the throttle, moving
to the carb heat (all while slowing down and wasting runway), then back to the
throttle to go around. So it's a routine I use ALL the time.
While a good carb, it is old... I'm going to go read the article you mention.
I do have a question for you and Mike. Can you get your carbs to hesitate?
If it's adjusted properly, will it hesitate at all? Under any normal condition?
I guess the whole point is this. If SOME hesitation under an extremely quick advance
of the throttle from a full idle is normal, then you can experience it
knowing things are probably alright with your carb.
As how these things go, I was warned of it and after I JUST became a little comfortable
with it, I did advance the throttle more quickly (I would advance the
throttle VERY slowly at first because I wasn't much used to a taildragger, rather
than trying to overcome a difficulty with the carb) and found that hesitation
so assumed it normal. As it turned out, it wasn't!
A technique I use with jet engines is to never let the engine "go to sleep". Especially
with pure jets (no fan) and older jets, the response time from a developed
idle can be dangerously slow. If you jockey the engines just enough, you'll
keep them in a position where you have good response, without adding any
significant thrust that would compromise the approach. Same applies to a piet.
I notice many light civil pilots basically fly a no power final approach (which
guarantees making the field with an engine failure, not a bad idea). Now if
you fly that approach at a close to touchdown speed, if you do get low and add
power with hesitation, you're in bad shape. If you fly that approach at a higher
speed, short of touchdown and glide into it, you have margin for error, enough
time (speed) to get through a hesitation.
I, on the other hand, with a huge lack of experience in light civil planes, and
YEARS AND YEARS of "bad habits", fly a lower power on approach, which keeps my
engine out of the region where it would hesitate with a quick advance anyway.
As I mentioned, the whole point of the discussion (in my mind) is to help us understand
what the limitations of our carbs are so that we can determine if something
isn't right. It's quite possible it SHOULDN'T ever hesitate and my flying
habits would mask that condition and I'd never know if my carb was adjusted
right in that regime or not.
Lastly, the old drip from these old carbs. I'm on the verge of buying a little
Chief with an A65. The owner just had the carb totally overhauled (to the tune
of $600) because it would drip. I was told that was silly, because they all
drip...
I'm of the opinion that no good carb should just drip. Something is wrong in there
if it does. May not really matter because it won't drip while running, but
still...
Oh ya, one more thing. When I was buying n2rn it was being inspected. A cylinder
had to be pulled for some work. After we put it together and ran it, it had
a little pop on acceleration. Dick wasn't happy and we thought maybe leaking
a little air somewhere and we went about tightening all the hose clamps on
the intake system. Problem went away. None of them seemed loose. It does seem
that this engine is quite sensitive to any leaks in the intake system. So
don't confuse that problem with a POSSIBLE propensity for hesitating due to a
lack of complexity.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382499#382499
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Stromberg NA-S3A1 |
I agree that the Stromberg is a good Carb. and widely used but there are
some 'stumblers' out there including mine.
One of the FAA Notices I came across whilst investing this was
Continental Engines M64-6.
You might all know of it? I've attached it for information.
I am going to try it towards winter time.
As for the stumbling....going tinker about but open throttle carefully
until I feel happy about it.
Gerry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SENTUCHOWS(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Stromberg NA-S3A1 |
Dick, One of the major problems with older Stromberg is the fit between the
carb and the throttle shaft. As this area becomes warn, outside air leaks
in around the shaft. You have a lean condition that cannot be adjusted out.
. Lean on idle means hesitation and engine stoppage. Just my experience.
Dave
In a message dated 9/6/2012 10:39:49 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
n0kkj(at)yahoo.com writes:
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "tools"
Dick bought my carb at Sun-n-fun and just sent it out for a complete
rebuild. And in it's defense, it NEVER stumbled on me (except for the broke
primer line) except while adding power to taxi IMMEDIATELY after startup.
However, I was warned (by quite a few people) that just firewalling it
with no regard wasn't a good idea, and knowing it has no accelator pump, it
made sense. I started the carb heat routine while I was troubleshooting the
backfiring (lean condition) caused by the broke primer line, and it helped
quite a bit, which lets me know it would help with a lean condition caused
by quick acceleration and no accelerator pump.
Also, it didn't make sense to waste time taking my hand off the throttle,
moving to the carb heat (all while slowing down and wasting runway), then
back to the throttle to go around. So it's a routine I use ALL the time.
While a good carb, it is old... I'm going to go read the article you
mention. I do have a question for you and Mike. Can you get your carbs to
hesitate? If it's adjusted properly, will it hesitate at all? Under any
normal condition?
I guess the whole point is this. If SOME hesitation under an extremely
quick advance of the throttle from a full idle is normal, then you can
experience it knowing things are probably alright with your carb.
As how these things go, I was warned of it and after I JUST became a
little comfortable with it, I did advance the throttle more quickly (I would
advance the throttle VERY slowly at first because I wasn't much used to a
taildragger, rather than trying to overcome a difficulty with the carb) and
found that hesitation so assumed it normal. As it turned out, it wasn't!
A technique I use with jet engines is to never let the engine "go to
sleep". Especially with pure jets (no fan) and older jets, the response time
from a developed idle can be dangerously slow. If you jockey the engines
just enough, you'll keep them in a position where you have good response,
without adding any significant thrust that would compromise the approach. Same
applies to a piet.
I notice many light civil pilots basically fly a no power final approach
(which guarantees making the field with an engine failure, not a bad idea).
Now if you fly that approach at a close to touchdown speed, if you do get
low and add power with hesitation, you're in bad shape. If you fly that
approach at a higher speed, short of touchdown and glide into it, you have
margin for error, enough time (speed) to get through a hesitation.
I, on the other hand, with a huge lack of experience in light civil
planes, and YEARS AND YEARS of "bad habits", fly a lower power on approach, which
keeps my engine out of the region where it would hesitate with a quick
advance anyway.
As I mentioned, the whole point of the discussion (in my mind) is to help
us understand what the limitations of our carbs are so that we can
determine if something isn't right. It's quite possible it SHOULDN'T ever hesitate
and my flying habits would mask that condition and I'd never know if my
carb was adjusted right in that regime or not.
Lastly, the old drip from these old carbs. I'm on the verge of buying a
little Chief with an A65. The owner just had the carb totally overhauled
(to the tune of $600) because it would drip. I was told that was silly,
because they all drip...
I'm of the opinion that no good carb should just drip. Something is wrong
in there if it does. May not really matter because it won't drip while
running, but still...
Oh ya, one more thing. When I was buying n2rn it was being inspected. A
cylinder had to be pulled for some work. After we put it together and ran
it, it had a little pop on acceleration. Dick wasn't happy and we thought
maybe leaking a little air somewhere and we went about tightening all the
hose clamps on the intake system. Problem went away. None of them seemed
loose. It does seem that this engine is quite sensitive to any leaks in the
intake system. So don't confuse that problem with a POSSIBLE propensity
for hesitating due to a lack of complexity.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382499#382499
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Stromberg NA-S3A1 |
| From: | "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com> |
The carb in n2rn was totally overhauled to the tune of $600 also, by a well respected
aviation carb shop (got all the receipts). I assume (though I havn't pulled
and checked) that the throttle shaft issue would be resolved if worn for
that sort of rebuild and yellow tagging.
Also, it would never quit while idling and starts well, both indicating that it
isn't a worn throttle shaft. I've had problems with worn throttle shafts on
tractors (very similar carbs) and old skid steers with Wisconsin VH4D's.
That bulletin aforementioned is really interesting! Also hadn't yet found the
incredible wealth of info on the fly baby website about little airplane engines.
Super useful info.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382503#382503
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "C N Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net> |
| Subject: | Re: a way to avoid routing spars |
My chart from Bruhn's " Analysis and Design of Airplane Structures"
shows spruce at 15% moisture content at 27 Pounds per cubic foot. Of
course, this book was printed in 1949 -- figures might be different now.
Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: Clif Dawson
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2012 2:19 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: a way to avoid routing spars
Uh, Jack, I think you'll find that to be 31 lb at
12% moisture content. At least according
to the US Forest Products Lab.
The closest you're going to get to that is
Western Red Cedar with a corresponding
reduction in strength.
Clif
Calculate it. Sitka Spruce has a density of 21.86 lbs/ft3.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Stromberg NA-S3A1 |
| From: | "dgaldrich" <dgaldrich(at)embarqmail.com> |
Ref the drip on Stromberg carbs, there was a guy at OSH who seems to know EVERYTHING
about the Stromberg and showed us a mod right from the NAS3 overhaul manual
that permanently fixes the leak. It involves plugging a port that ends up
below float level when a tail wheel aircraft is on the ground and drilling a
small hole "higher" up on the carb body. Easy to do and a permanent fix or so
he said. What he warned about was the typical "Must be the float cover gasket.
I'll just lean on the screws and tighten it a bit more." response from many
mechanics. That does nothing useful if the gasket is correctly installed and
can warp the cover if done to an extreme.
Same guy said he was close to FAA-PMA approval for replacement float needle and
seats. That would be a good thing since the steel ones are pretty much NLA.
As an unrelated data point, my Piper Cherokee has an FAA warning on the instrument
panel about not rapidly advancing the throttle even though the O-320 uses
a Marvel Dribbler MA4-SPA with an accelerator pump.
Dave
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382505#382505
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Stromberg NA-S3A1 |
| From: | "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com> |
I get a stumble sometimes in the 1000-1200 rpm range. I think it may have something
to do with the transition from the idle jet to the main jet. I've experienced
this on other carbs too.
Don Emch
NX899DE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382507#382507
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: what I would do differently, wing spars and other |
things
| From: | "kevinpurtee" <kevin.purtee(at)us.army.mil> |
So Oscar, you know that despite the fact that I'm recovering I can still kick your
butt, right?:)
Just kidding, of course.
On the rebuild, we will do the following:
- 3 piece wing,
- Use a Gary Boothe fuel tank (~16 gallons),
- Move the fuel tank filler port forward a little for ease of refueling,
- Probably use the lightweight fabric as Jack mentioned,
- Slant the back seat back a little as Jack mentioned,
- Figure out a way to make Shelley more comfortable in the front seat, raise the
seat, figure out better cushions, whatever,
- Maybe raise the turtle deck an inch? We'll see,
- Use fittings at the top of the rear cabanes as an attach point for the front
seat shoulder harness attach cable vs. the through-the-cabane eyebolts we used,
- Maybe use a head rest to raise the back seat shoulder harness,
- I loved the brakes, but need to figure out a way to quit popping spokes. May
just use Jack's design. We'll see,
- Maybe a cutout in the wing?
- Add a sump to the fuel tank, of course....
I loved the airplane and it performed nicely. These are changes for convenience
(except for the sump in the fuel tank, of course...).
--------
Kevin "Axel" Purtee
NX899KP
Austin/San Marcos, TX
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382508#382508
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Stromberg NA-S3A1 |
| From: | gboothe5(at)comcast.net |
Exactly where I'm getting it!
------Original Message------
From: Don Emch
Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
ReplyTo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Stromberg NA-S3A1
Sent: Sep 6, 2012 8:37 AM
I get a stumble sometimes in the 1000-1200 rpm range. I think it may have something
to do with the transition from the idle jet to the main jet. I've experienced
this on other carbs too.
Don Emch
NX899DE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382507#382507
Sent on the Sprint Now Network from my BlackBerry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SENTUCHOWS(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Stromberg NA-S3A1 |
NoKK. try this, _http://www.bowersflybaby.com/tech/fenton.htm#nologs_
(http://www.bowersflybaby.com/tech/fenton.htm#nologs)
In a message dated 9/6/2012 11:25:34 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
n0kkj(at)yahoo.com writes:
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "tools"
The carb in n2rn was totally overhauled to the tune of $600 also, by a
well respected aviation carb shop (got all the receipts). I assume (though I
havn't pulled and checked) that the throttle shaft issue would be resolved
if worn for that sort of rebuild and yellow tagging.
Also, it would never quit while idling and starts well, both indicating
that it isn't a worn throttle shaft. I've had problems with worn throttle
shafts on tractors (very similar carbs) and old skid steers with Wisconsin
VH4D's.
That bulletin aforementioned is really interesting! Also hadn't yet found
the incredible wealth of info on the fly baby website about little
airplane engines.
Super useful info.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382503#382503
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Stromberg NA-S3A1 |
| From: | Andrew Eldredge <andrew.eldredge(at)gmail.com> |
My stromberb stumbles when advanced quickly. The stumble was a contributing
factor to 7229R's appearance in the NTSB database. In my "oral counseling"
with the FAA, we talked about not bein so quick on the throttle.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SENTUCHOWS(at)aol.com |
Here is the addy for the bowers fly baby site. There is a lot of info on
engines and wood working. You can learn from this site.
Dave
_http://www.bowersflybaby.com/tech/index.html#woodi_
(http://www.bowersflybaby.com/tech/index.html#woodi)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Stromberg NA-S3A1 |
| From: | Ryan Mueller <ryan(at)rmueller.org> |
Strombergs are excellent carbs, simple tech that has been proven over many
years on god knows how many different production/experimental aircraft and
engines.
As Dave mentioned, the dripping is a simple issue of where the float bowl
vent port is relative to the level of fuel in the bowl when the carburetor
is installed on a taildragger. This was addressed over 50 years ago by a
Service Bulletin.....shops/people don't know about or don't perform the SB,
and they still drip....from D&G Supply's page: "For Stromberg/NAS model
carburetors utilized on "taildraggers", care must be taken to control the
fuel level in the bowl to accommodate the slanted mounting of this unit on
the engine to prevent overflow leakage. There is a modification to this
carburetor per Service Bulletin #73 dated 6/58 that removes a potential
leaking air bleed hole located low in the throat by plugging and
re-drilling a new one further up". Simple resolution.
I just happened to stumble upon the gentleman Dave mentioned in the Vintage
Barn (Bob Kachergius), and sat in on his talk.....he definitely knows what
he's talking about. He went through the carb top to bottom, with samples,
cutaway carbs, etc, pointing out all the different little details of an
overhaul that might get missed: SB 73, the warping from overtightening the
screws, looking for evidence of corrosion from water at in the bottom of
the float bowl, how the float needle seat hole many times was not drilled
deep enough at the factory, so the seat is too proud and you can't properly
set the float level unless you machine it properly, etc etc, and how he
addresses them.
His overhaul price was a little more than some other shops, but I'd be hard
pressed to imagine you could find a more thorough overhaul. Steve Krog
interviewed him for an article in the August 2011 VAA mag, and he's
apparently written numerous articles in various type club publications (Cub
Club, etc). Anywho, he's got an ad up on Barnstormers:
http://www.barnstormers.com/classified_392052_STROMBERG+NA-S3++CARBURETORS.html
Ryan
ryan(at)rmueller.org
On Thu, Sep 6, 2012 at 9:37 AM, tools wrote:
>
> Dick bought my carb at Sun-n-fun and just sent it out for a complete
> rebuild. And in it's defense, it NEVER stumbled on me (except for the
> broke primer line) except while adding power to taxi IMMEDIATELY after
> startup.
>
> However, I was warned (by quite a few people) that just firewalling it
> with no regard wasn't a good idea, and knowing it has no accelator pump, it
> made sense. I started the carb heat routine while I was troubleshooting
> the backfiring (lean condition) caused by the broke primer line, and it
> helped quite a bit, which lets me know it would help with a lean condition
> caused by quick acceleration and no accelerator pump.
>
> Also, it didn't make sense to waste time taking my hand off the throttle,
> moving to the carb heat (all while slowing down and wasting runway), then
> back to the throttle to go around. So it's a routine I use ALL the time.
>
> While a good carb, it is old... I'm going to go read the article you
> mention. I do have a question for you and Mike. Can you get your carbs to
> hesitate? If it's adjusted properly, will it hesitate at all? Under any
> normal condition?
>
> I guess the whole point is this. If SOME hesitation under an extremely
> quick advance of the throttle from a full idle is normal, then you can
> experience it knowing things are probably alright with your carb.
>
> As how these things go, I was warned of it and after I JUST became a
> little comfortable with it, I did advance the throttle more quickly (I
> would advance the throttle VERY slowly at first because I wasn't much used
> to a taildragger, rather than trying to overcome a difficulty with the
> carb) and found that hesitation so assumed it normal. As it turned out, it
> wasn't!
>
> A technique I use with jet engines is to never let the engine "go to
> sleep". Especially with pure jets (no fan) and older jets, the response
> time from a developed idle can be dangerously slow. If you jockey the
> engines just enough, you'll keep them in a position where you have good
> response, without adding any significant thrust that would compromise the
> approach. Same applies to a piet.
>
> I notice many light civil pilots basically fly a no power final approach
> (which guarantees making the field with an engine failure, not a bad idea).
> Now if you fly that approach at a close to touchdown speed, if you do get
> low and add power with hesitation, you're in bad shape. If you fly that
> approach at a higher speed, short of touchdown and glide into it, you have
> margin for error, enough time (speed) to get through a hesitation.
>
> I, on the other hand, with a huge lack of experience in light civil
> planes, and YEARS AND YEARS of "bad habits", fly a lower power on approach,
> which keeps my engine out of the region where it would hesitate with a
> quick advance anyway.
>
> As I mentioned, the whole point of the discussion (in my mind) is to help
> us understand what the limitations of our carbs are so that we can
> determine if something isn't right. It's quite possible it SHOULDN'T ever
> hesitate and my flying habits would mask that condition and I'd never know
> if my carb was adjusted right in that regime or not.
>
> Lastly, the old drip from these old carbs. I'm on the verge of buying a
> little Chief with an A65. The owner just had the carb totally overhauled
> (to the tune of $600) because it would drip. I was told that was silly,
> because they all drip...
>
> I'm of the opinion that no good carb should just drip. Something is wrong
> in there if it does. May not really matter because it won't drip while
> running, but still...
>
> Oh ya, one more thing. When I was buying n2rn it was being inspected. A
> cylinder had to be pulled for some work. After we put it together and ran
> it, it had a little pop on acceleration. Dick wasn't happy and we thought
> maybe leaking a little air somewhere and we went about tightening all the
> hose clamps on the intake system. Problem went away. None of them seemed
> loose. It does seem that this engine is quite sensitive to any leaks in
> the intake system. So don't confuse that problem with a POSSIBLE
> propensity for hesitating due to a lack of complexity.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382499#382499
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Stromberg NA-S3A1 |
| From: | "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com> |
Dave and Gary,
I had the old hole plugged and new drilled in mine at overhaul. Supposed to be
better for sitting in the 3 point at a steeper angle like mine does. Never leaks.
As far as the stumble goes... it is very faint and since I've noticed it
in so many other airplanes, I've never given it much thought.
Don Emch
NX899DE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382516#382516
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Stromberg NA-S3A1 |
| From: | "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
Ah, my favorite old carb! I've worked with probably a half-dozen different ones
now, and the one that is presently on Scout (A75) behaves precisely as Tools
describes. So I do what Tools does... when I get ready to take off, I apply
carb heat and leave it on till the engine is running strong and we're ready to
unstick from the runway (just a couple of seconds, really). I have not tried
the trick of easing in just a little throttle to get it off the idle circuit
first, but that's another one I'll try. A quick shove on the throttle, hot or
cold, without carb heat applied is a guarantee of stumble, hesitation, and hard
swallowing on my part.
As to the dribble, I've ended that problem by carefully setting the float level
per the information that is also found on the FlyBaby site. It's a bit tedious
but if done slowly and carefully and with the simple little measuring tool,
it will be correct and you won't get dribble out the air box. I also don't fly
auto gas... the Stromberg on my old A65 would drool fuel every time I tried
auto gas if I set the float level for avgas, so I stopped flying with car gas.
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford/Ashland, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382560#382560
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Stromberg NA-S3A1 |
| From: | Andrew Eldredge <andrew.eldredge(at)gmail.com> |
Tools said:
"Now, how this affects cold starting and prime is... EVERY time I've had
the engine catch and run a few revolutions, I can't get it started easily
after that point. Well, it's just like pulling it through, and with the
engine on the extra rich idle circuit, it floods. Now, every time it
catches a few revs and quits, I just turn the mags off, open the throt and
pull it backwards a dozen pulls, reset everything and viola, easy start 1st
pull after that."
I've had this expeirence several times, last time was labor day attempting
a hot start, but I did not know this procedure. To be clear, is this the
"flood clearing" procecure?
Usually on a hot start, I'll not bother "priming" with any pulls before the
mags go on, the compression is tight and it will usually fire up on the
first turn, but from time to time, "that" will happen, and I don't have a
better solution than to shut off the fuel and wait a while.
Andrew Eldredge
Provo, UT
On Thu, Sep 6, 2012 at 11:11 AM, Ryan Mueller wrote:
> Strombergs are excellent carbs, simple tech that has been proven over many
> years on god knows how many different production/experimental aircraft and
> engines.
>
> As Dave mentioned, the dripping is a simple issue of where the float bowl
> vent port is relative to the level of fuel in the bowl when the carburetor
> is installed on a taildragger. This was addressed over 50 years ago by a
> Service Bulletin.....shops/people don't know about or don't perform the SB,
> and they still drip....from D&G Supply's page: "For Stromberg/NAS model
> carburetors utilized on "taildraggers", care must be taken to control the
> fuel level in the bowl to accommodate the slanted mounting of this unit on
> the engine to prevent overflow leakage. There is a modification to this
> carburetor per Service Bulletin #73 dated 6/58 that removes a potential
> leaking air bleed hole located low in the throat by plugging and
> re-drilling a new one further up". Simple resolution.
>
> I just happened to stumble upon the gentleman Dave mentioned in the
> Vintage Barn (Bob Kachergius), and sat in on his talk.....he definitely
> knows what he's talking about. He went through the carb top to bottom, with
> samples, cutaway carbs, etc, pointing out all the different little details
> of an overhaul that might get missed: SB 73, the warping from
> overtightening the screws, looking for evidence of corrosion from water at
> in the bottom of the float bowl, how the float needle seat hole many times
> was not drilled deep enough at the factory, so the seat is too proud and
> you can't properly set the float level unless you machine it properly, etc
> etc, and how he addresses them.
>
> His overhaul price was a little more than some other shops, but I'd be
> hard pressed to imagine you could find a more thorough overhaul. Steve Krog
> interviewed him for an article in the August 2011 VAA mag, and he's
> apparently written numerous articles in various type club publications (Cub
> Club, etc). Anywho, he's got an ad up on Barnstormers:
>
>
> http://www.barnstormers.com/classified_392052_STROMBERG+NA-S3++CARBURETORS.html
>
> Ryan
> ryan(at)rmueller.org
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 6, 2012 at 9:37 AM, tools wrote:
>
>>
>> Dick bought my carb at Sun-n-fun and just sent it out for a complete
>> rebuild. And in it's defense, it NEVER stumbled on me (except for the
>> broke primer line) except while adding power to taxi IMMEDIATELY after
>> startup.
>>
>> However, I was warned (by quite a few people) that just firewalling it
>> with no regard wasn't a good idea, and knowing it has no accelator pump, it
>> made sense. I started the carb heat routine while I was troubleshooting
>> the backfiring (lean condition) caused by the broke primer line, and it
>> helped quite a bit, which lets me know it would help with a lean condition
>> caused by quick acceleration and no accelerator pump.
>>
>> Also, it didn't make sense to waste time taking my hand off the throttle,
>> moving to the carb heat (all while slowing down and wasting runway), then
>> back to the throttle to go around. So it's a routine I use ALL the time.
>>
>> While a good carb, it is old... I'm going to go read the article you
>> mention. I do have a question for you and Mike. Can you get your carbs to
>> hesitate? If it's adjusted properly, will it hesitate at all? Under any
>> normal condition?
>>
>> I guess the whole point is this. If SOME hesitation under an extremely
>> quick advance of the throttle from a full idle is normal, then you can
>> experience it knowing things are probably alright with your carb.
>>
>> As how these things go, I was warned of it and after I JUST became a
>> little comfortable with it, I did advance the throttle more quickly (I
>> would advance the throttle VERY slowly at first because I wasn't much used
>> to a taildragger, rather than trying to overcome a difficulty with the
>> carb) and found that hesitation so assumed it normal. As it turned out, it
>> wasn't!
>>
>> A technique I use with jet engines is to never let the engine "go to
>> sleep". Especially with pure jets (no fan) and older jets, the response
>> time from a developed idle can be dangerously slow. If you jockey the
>> engines just enough, you'll keep them in a position where you have good
>> response, without adding any significant thrust that would compromise the
>> approach. Same applies to a piet.
>>
>> I notice many light civil pilots basically fly a no power final approach
>> (which guarantees making the field with an engine failure, not a bad idea).
>> Now if you fly that approach at a close to touchdown speed, if you do get
>> low and add power with hesitation, you're in bad shape. If you fly that
>> approach at a higher speed, short of touchdown and glide into it, you have
>> margin for error, enough time (speed) to get through a hesitation.
>>
>> I, on the other hand, with a huge lack of experience in light civil
>> planes, and YEARS AND YEARS of "bad habits", fly a lower power on approach,
>> which keeps my engine out of the region where it would hesitate with a
>> quick advance anyway.
>>
>> As I mentioned, the whole point of the discussion (in my mind) is to help
>> us understand what the limitations of our carbs are so that we can
>> determine if something isn't right. It's quite possible it SHOULDN'T ever
>> hesitate and my flying habits would mask that condition and I'd never know
>> if my carb was adjusted right in that regime or not.
>>
>> Lastly, the old drip from these old carbs. I'm on the verge of buying a
>> little Chief with an A65. The owner just had the carb totally overhauled
>> (to the tune of $600) because it would drip. I was told that was silly,
>> because they all drip...
>>
>> I'm of the opinion that no good carb should just drip. Something is
>> wrong in there if it does. May not really matter because it won't drip
>> while running, but still...
>>
>> Oh ya, one more thing. When I was buying n2rn it was being inspected. A
>> cylinder had to be pulled for some work. After we put it together and ran
>> it, it had a little pop on acceleration. Dick wasn't happy and we thought
>> maybe leaking a little air somewhere and we went about tightening all the
>> hose clamps on the intake system. Problem went away. None of them seemed
>> loose. It does seem that this engine is quite sensitive to any leaks in
>> the intake system. So don't confuse that problem with a POSSIBLE
>> propensity for hesitating due to a lack of complexity.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382499#382499
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ==========
>> st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>> ==========
>> http://forums.matronics.com
>> ==========
>> le, List Admin.
>> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> ==========
>>
>>
>>
>>
> *
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Stromberg NA-S3A1 |
| From: | "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com> |
Yep, classic a65 flood clearing procedure from what I've heard from a few different
sources.
Mags - off
Throt - wide open
Blades - pull through BACKWARDS, about a dozen
Throt - closed (EASY to screw this up, be VERY careful)
Carb heat - off
Mags - on
Start as usual.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382569#382569
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Stromberg NA-S3A1 |
| From: | "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
Andrew; my experience with the Stromberg when it floods is EXACTLY the same as
Tools'... but when I smell gas and the engine isn't starting I turn the fuel 'off',
open the throttle wide, then slowly and patiently pull the prop through
BACKWARDS a blade at a time, maybe 10-12 blades. What you're trying to do is
evaporate excess fuel that's in the combustion chambers so don't hurry pulling
those blades through.
When you think that the excess fuel is all gone, turn the fuel valve back on and
crack the throttle and try propping it normally again. BRAKES SET OR WHEELS
CHOCKED! It can happen that the engine will fire with excess fuel available
in the intake tubes, which means that it will catch and accelerate, and you need
to be ready for that eventuality. It'll settle down quickly.
If it starts, it will be normal. If it doesn't (and this happened to me many times
in hot weather with the engine hot), repeat the above procedure and don't
be in a hurry. In fact, I had almost as good results as the above by just shutting
off the fuel, opening the throttle wide, and going back into the hangar
or FBO to do other stuff for awhile until I thought the excess fuel had evaporated
and I had another chance to fire up the engine. Cessna drivers wondered
what the heck I was doing ;o)
I have never flooded the 75, for some reason. It seems to want more fuel on starting
than the 65 did, but then again they run two different Strombergs and we
all know that Strombergs are like women: you have to treat them right and treat
them like individuals, and they will reward you if you do that. My 65 had
a temperamental (starting) but utterly reliable (running) brunette Stromberg;
my 75 has a quick-starting but cold-natured redhead Stromberg. Heaven help us
if I ever have an engine with a hot-blooded and wild blonde Stromberg! Oh,
and if it has a mixture control-! Look out, Marilyn Monroe!
Marvel-Scheblers are more like men, I guess... all alike in the basics, and always
ready for action if stroked a time or two since stroking shoots some fuel
in there to get the juices flowing every time. I can't tell you how many times
I have stroked the throttle on Scout out of habit and inattention on starting,
then realized that it does absolutely nothing for the Stromberg to open and
close the butterfly in the venturi in that carb if no air is flowing through
it.
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford/Ashland, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382572#382572
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Piet parts to Brodhead |
| From: | Ryan Mueller <ryan(at)rmueller.org> |
If they didn't get this with the airplane, might be worth a couple of bucks
just for the backstory on what they bought:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Building-Pietenpol-NX925GP-Air-Camper-Notes-Pictures-DVD-R-David-Stephens-/320977644291?pt=US_Nonfiction_Book&hash=item4abbc22b03
On Wed, Sep 5, 2012 at 1:19 PM, skipgadd(at)earthlink.net <
skipgadd(at)earthlink.net> wrote:
> skipgadd(at)earthlink.net>
>
> Jim,
> Know what you mean. When David said he was going to deliver his Piet to
> Brodhead, I thought gee I'll bet he could use some help. The MAAC fly-in is
> just icing on the cake.
> Skip
>
>
> > [Original Message]
> > From: Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
> > To:
> > Date: 9/5/2012 12:38:15 PM
> > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Piet parts to Brodhead
> >
>
> >
> > Dang, I'm stating to get that old familiar "we're going to Brodhead and
> you're not..." feeling...again.
> >
> > I hate that....
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Stromberg NA-S3A1 |
| From: | Andrew Eldredge <andrew.eldredge(at)gmail.com> |
Since the mixture control in the Stromberg is vacuum operated, not to
mention the venturi, I've decided that the speed of the pull is important
when I am pulling in advance of a start. When pulling backward, is the
process sensitive to blade speed?
Andrew Eldredge
Provo, UT
On Thu, Sep 6, 2012 at 9:58 PM, tools wrote:
>
> Yep, classic a65 flood clearing procedure from what I've heard from a few
> different sources.
>
> Mags - off
> Throt - wide open
> Blades - pull through BACKWARDS, about a dozen
>
> Throt - closed (EASY to screw this up, be VERY careful)
> Carb heat - off
> Mags - on
>
> Start as usual.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382569#382569
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Stromberg NA-S3A1 |
| From: | Ryan Mueller <ryan(at)rmueller.org> |
No, it is not. And a dozen blades is a bit excessive, unless you like the
exercise. 4 or 5, and give her a go. Not entirely sure why it's so easy to
screw up closing the throttle....if you have to be VERY careful about
pulling something to the rear until it stops, maybe this whole airplane
thing is not your recommended hobby....
Ryan
On Fri, Sep 7, 2012 at 7:20 AM, Andrew Eldredge
wrote:
> Since the mixture control in the Stromberg is vacuum operated, not to
> mention the venturi, I've decided that the speed of the pull is important
> when I am pulling in advance of a start. When pulling backward, is the
> process sensitive to blade speed?
>
> Andrew Eldredge
> Provo, UT
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 6, 2012 at 9:58 PM, tools wrote:
>
>>
>> Yep, classic a65 flood clearing procedure from what I've heard from a few
>> different sources.
>>
>> Mags - off
>> Throt - wide open
>> Blades - pull through BACKWARDS, about a dozen
>>
>> Throt - closed (EASY to screw this up, be VERY careful)
>> Carb heat - off
>> Mags - on
>>
>> Start as usual.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382569#382569
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ==========
>> st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>> ==========
>> http://forums.matronics.com
>> ==========
>> le, List Admin.
>> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> ==========
>>
>>
>>
>>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "g. doe" <acmech46(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Looking for a steel tube piet |
Greg, there is a flyer in Woodstock, GA for sale, it is on Barnstormers, it
is at the grass field I fly out of, gary=0A=0A=0A=0A______________________
__________=0AFrom: Greg Bacon <gbacon67(at)gmail.com>=0ATo: pietenpol-list@mat
ronics.com =0ASent: Tuesday, September 4, 2012 9:57 PM=0ASubject: Pietenpol
-List: Looking for a steel tube piet=0A=0A=0AGents,=0AThere is a fellow in
Australia that is looking to purchase a steel tube piet (flying - not a pro
ject). -Please contact me if you know of anyone interested in selling one
===============
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Stromberg NA-S3A1 |
| From: | "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org> |
Steve,
I have quit using the method you have described when clearing my flooded Cont.
A friend of mine who use to investigate AC accidents for Cont. powered aircraft
showed me a better method and it works every time. I'm sure that you have
noticed that when you clear it with your procedures that it will not always work
every time.
I'll describe the way I do it now. First make sure the planes tail is tied down
for safety. With the Mags off and the throttle in the wide open position,
Pull the prop through about 10 blades in the forward direction. This does a couple
of things. It pushes the raw fuel out the exhaust rather than putting it
back into the intake system (reducing the chance of a backfire into the carburetor
and fire) and it also keeps the engine oil in the oil pump (preventing
oil cavitation). After pulling it through, reduce the throttle to the idle or
cracked position (whatever works best for you), Flip on the mags and it will
start on the first pull. Works every time. The only scary part is pulling it
through at WOT and hoping that the mag switches work. Keep mindful that Switches
can fail and you could have an unintentional engine start when pulling it
through. But we all know that we must be prepare for that anytime we touch
a prop. I am one who shuts my engine down with the mag switches and I am fairly
confident that my switches always work.
Give it a try, I think it is a better alternative and better for the engine.
--------
Scott Liefeld
Flying N11MS since March 1972
Steel Tube
C-85-12
Wire Wheels
Brodhead in 1996
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382594#382594
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Stromberg NA-S3A1 |
| From: | Ryan Mueller <ryan(at)rmueller.org> |
Funny how quirky each one can be....502Rocket takes 2 shots of prime and
four blades, and starts every time. Turn the switch off, and it quits.
Pretty simple
On Fri, Sep 7, 2012 at 9:25 AM, AircamperN11MS wrote:
> Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org>
>
> Steve,
>
> I have quit using the method you have described when clearing my flooded
> Cont. A friend of mine who use to investigate AC accidents for Cont.
> powered aircraft showed me a better method and it works every time. I'm
> sure that you have noticed that when you clear it with your procedures that
> it will not always work every time.
>
>
> I'll describe the way I do it now. First make sure the planes tail is
> tied down for safety. With the Mags off and the throttle in the wide open
> position, Pull the prop through about 10 blades in the forward direction.
> This does a couple of things. It pushes the raw fuel out the exhaust
> rather than putting it back into the intake system (reducing the chance of
> a backfire into the carburetor and fire) and it also keeps the engine oil
> in the oil pump (preventing oil cavitation). After pulling it through,
> reduce the throttle to the idle or cracked position (whatever works best
> for you), Flip on the mags and it will start on the first pull. Works
> every time. The only scary part is pulling it through at WOT and hoping
> that the mag switches work. Keep mindful that Switches can fail and you
> could have an unintentional engine start when pulling it through. But we
> all know that we must be prepare for that anytime we touch a prop. I am
> one who shuts my engine down with the !
> mag switches and I am fairly confident that my switches always work.
>
> Give it a try, I think it is a better alternative and better for the
> engine.
>
> --------
> Scott Liefeld
> Flying N11MS since March 1972
> Steel Tube
> C-85-12
> Wire Wheels
> Brodhead in 1996
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382594#382594
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Stromberg NA-S3A1 |
| From: | "dgaldrich" <dgaldrich(at)embarqmail.com> |
I seem to recall a knowledgeable person (the guy on the Bower's list??) positing
that flooding was caused by using the mags to shut the engine down. Because
the engine is still sucking fuel, the plugs get fouled. He suggested shutting
the engine down using a fuel shutoff valve close to the carb fuel supply and
opening the throttle as it dies to get more air through. Also has the advantage
of stopping any dripping due to float level issues. Something to think...
Dave
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382596#382596
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Spar Routing |
| From: | "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com> |
Mr. Pietenpol did use 3/4" laminated spars at some point later on. I would think
a 3/4" laminated spar would inherently be a little stronger than a 3/4" solid
spar because of doing away with the possible voids in a solid spar. Often
times I hear people mention that a 3/4" solid spar is as strong as a routed 1"
spar. I don't believe this to be the case. The strength of the spar is in the
top and bottom where it is in tension and compression. That is why so many
of the older airplanes have routed spars... to get that larger cross-section
at the top and bottom of the spar. As far as the cost goes the difference between
a 3/4" thick spar and a 1" thick spar is peanuts compared to the entire project.
Obviously 3/4" solid spars are fine because there are many Piets flying
with them. The Cubs, Champs, etc. that have less than 1" thick spars are quite
a bit taller than the Piet's 4 3/4", giving more strength. One thing to
remember... when many of the manufacturers from this era went to a more powerful
engine, they almost always increased the thickness of the spar...(Waco, American
Eagle, Swallow, etc.) Keep in mind many of our Piets are flying around
with at least 50% more power than the original plans call for.
I know this topic has been beaten to death but I just thought I'd share my thoughts.
:)
Don Emch
NX899DE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382600#382600
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Stromberg NA-S3A1 |
| From: | Ryan Mueller <ryan(at)rmueller.org> |
You're at idle when you turn off the mags, not bringing in much fuel for a
few seconds, how would that contribute to flooding?
How do plugs get fouled if they are not sparking for a few seconds?
Sure, if you turn off the fuel and want to wait until the engine consumes
the fuel in the bowl and dies, go ahead. Or just have SB 73 done to the
carb, and don't worry about it.
On Fri, Sep 7, 2012 at 10:09 AM, dgaldrich wrote:
> dgaldrich(at)embarqmail.com>
>
> I seem to recall a knowledgeable person (the guy on the Bower's list??)
> positing that flooding was caused by using the mags to shut the engine
> down. Because the engine is still sucking fuel, the plugs get fouled. He
> suggested shutting the engine down using a fuel shutoff valve close to the
> carb fuel supply and opening the throttle as it dies to get more air
> through. Also has the advantage of stopping any dripping due to float
> level issues. Something to think...
>
> Dave
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382596#382596
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Stromberg NA-S3A1 |
| From: | Ryan Mueller <ryan(at)rmueller.org> |
Just curious.....how is your Piet doing? Nice ship, hope she'll be back in
the air soon....
On Thu, Sep 6, 2012 at 9:37 AM, tools wrote:
>
> I'm on the verge of buying a little Chief with an A65
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Stromberg NA-S3A1 |
| From: | "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org> |
I don't have much problem with flooding anyway. My plane requires different priming
procedures depending on which fuel I am running. 100LL takes a lot less
priming than auto gas does. Due to the specific gravity of the fuels, I guess.
I also shut my fuel off as I turn the corner for my hanger. I guess about
10 seconds before I shut the mags off. This just empties the fuel bowl a little
before shut down. I have a steel needle and seat in the carb and have no
trouble with dripping.
--------
Scott Liefeld
Flying N11MS since March 1972
Steel Tube
C-85-12
Wire Wheels
Brodhead in 1996
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382602#382602
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Piet album website |
| From: | "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org> |
This is interesting. This adds up to a lot of history.
http://www.abpic.co.uk/search.php?q=Pietenpol%20AirCamper&u=type&sort=&page=0&limit=10
Enjoy
--------
Scott Liefeld
Flying N11MS since March 1972
Steel Tube
C-85-12
Wire Wheels
Brodhead in 1996
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382608#382608
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Piet album website |
| From: | Ryan Mueller <ryan(at)rmueller.org> |
Also, Chris Tracy's excellent site, a bit more accessible:
http://www.westcoastpiet.com/
On Fri, Sep 7, 2012 at 11:13 AM, AircamperN11MS wrote:
> Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org>
>
> This is interesting. This adds up to a lot of history.
>
>
> http://www.abpic.co.uk/search.php?q=Pietenpol%20AirCamper&u=type&sort=&page=0&limit=10
>
> Enjoy
>
> --------
> Scott Liefeld
> Flying N11MS since March 1972
> Steel Tube
> C-85-12
> Wire Wheels
> Brodhead in 1996
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382608#382608
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Spar Routing |
| From: | Ken Bickers <bickers.ken(at)gmail.com> |
Don, when I was trying to decide on what spar option to take, I used
the formulas in the publications found on the WestCoastPiet site.
Based on my calculations of 3/4" versus routed 1" spars using Sitka
Spruce, I found that the 1" routed spar should be approximately 11%
stronger than the 3/4" solid spar. Notice that I didn't try to
calculate the strength of built up 3/4" spars. It also appeared that
the weight would be essentially the same. The built up 3/4" spars
would presumably be heavier, as they would have several glue joints
that neither of the other two spar options would require. Cheers, Ken
On Fri, Sep 7, 2012 at 9:24 AM, Don Emch wrote:
>
> Mr. Pietenpol did use 3/4" laminated spars at some point later on. I would think
a 3/4" laminated spar would inherently be a little stronger than a 3/4" solid
spar because of doing away with the possible voids in a solid spar. Often
times I hear people mention that a 3/4" solid spar is as strong as a routed
1" spar. I don't believe this to be the case. The strength of the spar is in
the top and bottom where it is in tension and compression. That is why so many
of the older airplanes have routed spars... to get that larger cross-section
at the top and bottom of the spar. As far as the cost goes the difference between
a 3/4" thick spar and a 1" thick spar is peanuts compared to the entire
project. Obviously 3/4" solid spars are fine because there are many Piets flying
with them. The Cubs, Champs, etc. that have less than 1" thick spars are
quite a bit taller than the Piet's 4 3/4", giving more strength. One thing to
remember... when many of the manufacturers from this!
> era went to a more powerful engine, they almost always increased the thickness
of the spar...(Waco, American Eagle, Swallow, etc.) Keep in mind many of
our Piets are flying around with at least 50% more power than the original plans
call for.
>
> I know this topic has been beaten to death but I just thought I'd share my thoughts.
:)
>
> Don Emch
> NX899DE
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382600#382600
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Spar Routing |
| From: | "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com> |
Ken,
I would agree with you. Thanks for the input!
Don Emch
NX899DE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382615#382615
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Spar Routing |
| From: | "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com> |
Curt,
I'm not arguing in any way. I'm just sharing my thoughts on it and what I have
seen in building up different wings. The manufacturers had something in mind
in the late 20's when they were going from the heavy, big 90hp OX5 to the more
powerful radials because many of them increased the spar thickness. Just reporting
on what I've seen. Carry on...
Don Emch
NX899DE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382619#382619
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | How would you position the control stick? |
Where would you recommend the control stick rest in neutral/cruising position?
Tony B says it should move freely around a 10" square but I'm wondering if the
center of that box should maybe be a bit in front of straight up and down.
Or would you recommend I just sit in it and put the stick at a "neutral feeling"
position for me? (That makes the most sense.)
I've seen a couple that had bends in them that moved the actual grip forward a
few inches. Mine is already built so I'm not adding an offset but would like
to finish hooking up the control cables. But I figure now is a good time to sit
in it and also consider the input of some of you with Air Camper flying experience.
Sort of unrelated picture of recent cable completions attached.
Thanks!
Jim in Pryor
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | two niceset guys you'd ever want to meet |
Curt Merdan and Don Emch. Two of the most pleasant people I've ever had
the pleasure of meeting
at Brodhead.
Shame you two don't get along. :) (line from Ann Nelson to Elaine and Te
d Striker)
[cid:image001.jpg@01CD8D08.B5562970]<http://www.aveleyman.com/FilmCredit.as
px?FilmID=355>
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | How would you position the control stick? |
Or would you recommend I just sit in it and put the stick at a "neutral feeling"
position for me? (That makes the most sense.)
Jim--exactly. I would do just what you described above. No needs to bend the
stick or move it forward or aft. Glad to hear
of your excellent progress!
And the 'circle' of movement for a Pietenpol stick is plenty big, even if you have
big thighs (like us full figured girls) if you build
the horns and control system to plans---what I'm saying is there is plenty of room
for "throw" as-designed. The only time I use
full throw is when taxiing in a strong crosswind or in full flare on landings.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: two niceset guys you'd ever want to meet |
| From: | Ryan Mueller <ryan(at)rmueller.org> |
Don't forgot Curt's daughter....well mannered and enthusiastic.....dunno
where she gets it from. ;-)
Ryan
On Sep 7, 2012 1:59 PM, "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]"
wrote:
> Curt Merdan and Don Emch. Two of the most pleasant people I've ever had
> the pleasure of meeting****
>
> at Brodhead. ****
>
> ** **
>
> Shame you two don't get along. :) (line from Ann Nelson to Elaine and
> Ted Striker) ****
>
> ** **
>
> [image: Description:
> http://www.wearysloth.com/Gallery/ActorsN/12726-355.jpg]>
> ****
>
> ** **
>
> Mike C.****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | How would you position the control stick? |
Great, thanks!
-----Original Message-----
>From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
>Sent: Sep 7, 2012 2:21 PM
>To: "pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com"
>Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: How would you position the control stick?
>
>
>Or would you recommend I just sit in it and put the stick at a "neutral feeling"
position for me? (That makes the most sense.)
>
>
>Jim--exactly. I would do just what you described above. No needs to bend the
stick or move it forward or aft. Glad to hear
>of your excellent progress!
>
>And the 'circle' of movement for a Pietenpol stick is plenty big, even if you
have big thighs (like us full figured girls) if you build
>the horns and control system to plans---what I'm saying is there is plenty of
room for "throw" as-designed. The only time I use
>full throw is when taxiing in a strong crosswind or in full flare on landings.
>
>Mike C.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | two niceset guys you'd ever want to meet |
The only person I know who is NICER than Don or Curt is Larry Williams:)
Mike C.
Too bad he's not on the list and out flying those powered deathtrap parachu
tes somewhere over Maui to vent his frustrations
over Snowflakes and GN-1 builders and non-purists. Poor guy worked himsel
f up into an Bernie Ulcer.
And as long as I've had too much coffee, has ANYONE ever seen a picture of
Bernie (okay Bernard for those of you who take offense to me
calling him Bernie) smiling? Maybe after building 26 airplanes I would
n't be smiling much either. Think of all the wood slivers and
near-death experiences?
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: two niceset guys you'd ever want to meet |
| From: | "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com> |
Good point Mike! I think I saw a picture of him once where he was just starting
to work up a smile. It's gotta have something to do with building that many
airplanes.
Someday when I grow up I want to be just like Larry Williams. He's about as classy
and nice as they come!
Don Emch
NX899DE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382640#382640
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: two niceset guys you'd ever want to meet |
Larry Williams really is a peach of a guy Don---he just likes to try to come across
on the list as a grumpy old
man. He doesn't do a very convincing job of it....too nice!
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: two niceset guys you'd ever want to meet |
| From: | "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com> |
Larry likes to amuse himself and I think acting as the Top Curmudgeon is lots of
fun to him!
Don Emch
NX899DE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382643#382643
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: How would you position the control stick? |
| From: | "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com> |
I've been stop to stop a few times about tree top level into and out of fields
(surrounded by trees) on gusty days, but see no reason that just centered is anything
other than you'd want (side to side).
I had to rerig the ailerons once and got the stick out of centered and it bothered
me IMMEDIATELY, but was an easy fix.
Otherwise, I'd sit in it and see where neutral feels good for you (fore and aft).
Then trim the plane to where that's actually the case. Maybe a slight forward
bent stick might be advantageous for some folks. You DEFINITELY want full
aft available. I lost some with a experimental seat cushion... not good. Another
easy fix.
BETTER YET, go get a ride! Seriously. When I bought Dick N's NX2RN, I was ready
to cancel the deal as soon as I sat in it. Thought there was NO WAY I could
operate that rudder bar. Then he let me taxi it and that saved the deal. Was
no problem, but that wasn't obvious by just sitting.
If you're gonna cross country at all, a nice comfortable neutral is a good thing...
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382644#382644
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: How would you position the control stick? |
| From: | "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com> |
I would say you need more up than down, if you need to move the stick forward a
bit... Only use down of any significance to get the tailwheel off the ground.
And doing that early never worked out well for me, meaning if you have enough
speed, don't need that much throw.
FWIW
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382646#382646
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | two niceset guys you'd ever want to meet |
Then, lucky me! I'm meeting Curt for breakfast tomorrow!!
Gary Boothe
NX308MB
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cuy, Michael
D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]
Sent: Friday, September 07, 2012 11:55 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: two niceset guys you'd ever want to meet
Curt Merdan and Don Emch. Two of the most pleasant people I've ever had
the pleasure of meeting
at Brodhead.
Shame you two don't get along. :) (line from Ann Nelson to Elaine and Ted
Striker)
<http://www.aveleyman.com/FilmCredit.aspx?FilmID=355> Description:
http://www.wearysloth.com/Gallery/ActorsN/12726-355.jpg
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ben Charvet <bencharvet(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Stromberg NA-S3A1 |
The plugs get fouled because shutting off with the throttle closed is
the equivalent of about 12 blades of priming. I shut off with the mag
switch, but advance the throttle at the same time to avoid that problem.
Ben
On 9/7/2012 11:28 AM, Ryan Mueller wrote:
> You're at idle when you turn off the mags, not bringing in much fuel
> for a few seconds, how would that contribute to flooding?
>
> How do plugs get fouled if they are not sparking for a few seconds?
>
> Sure, if you turn off the fuel and want to wait until the engine
> consumes the fuel in the bowl and dies, go ahead. Or just have SB 73
> done to the carb, and don't worry about it.
>
>
> On Fri, Sep 7, 2012 at 10:09 AM, dgaldrich > wrote:
>
> >
>
> I seem to recall a knowledgeable person (the guy on the Bower's
> list??) positing that flooding was caused by using the mags to
> shut the engine down. Because the engine is still sucking fuel,
> the plugs get fouled. He suggested shutting the engine down using
> a fuel shutoff valve close to the carb fuel supply and opening the
> throttle as it dies to get more air through. Also has the
> advantage of stopping any dripping due to float level issues.
> Something to think...
>
> Dave
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382596#382596
>
>
> ==========
> st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> ==========
> http://forums.matronics.com
> ==========
> le, List Admin.
> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ==========
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
--
Ben Charvet, PharmD
Staff Pharmacist
Parrish Medical center
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Steel Fittings and Prep questions |
| From: | "Mark Roberts" <mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com> |
I began cutting steel last night and I made my first Cabane fittings that will
go on the Fuse to hold the center Cabanes onto the fuselage. Drilled the holes
with a borrowed MicroLux mill so it is all accurate down to the .001 (sure makes
it easy to just turn a crank handle ever so many turns to dial in a measurement!)
I have been reading Tony B's chapter on fittings and have a few questions:
He mentions having NO scratches on the steel, and to keep the edges of the steel
rather sharp. I rounded the edges of the flat stock with the grinder. I hate
to sound naive, but I am with steel: is rounded edges on the straps a problem?
Polishing the faces of the steel: I bought a grinder that has 2 wheels- a rough
and a fine wheel. BUT, the wheels are about 3/4" wide, and so I have used the
side of the wheels to grind the round edges, otherwise I would get a series of
3/4" marks all down the side, and would not be smooth or consistant. So, what
do you use to polish the FACE of the part to prep it for the Zinc paint? I got
some very small marks in the steel from filing the edges off of the holes I
drilled, so I'd like to polish them out. Nothing deep, just the standard scratches
in the face of the steel when you run a file over it.
Also, when fitting these to the fuselage, I am assuming the 2 holes that are drilled
in the fuse to mount these fittings (again, to hold the center cabanes to
the fuse) are drilled as such: the first hole at the bottom of the fitting is
drilled through the side strut leading to the top longeron, and the second hole
through the center line of the side of the top longeron. Is this correct?
How far up should the 1/4" hole be above the top longeron to safely fit the cabane
strut?
I am comfortable with the wood, but haven't found my sea legs yet with the steel.
However, I DO have 8 new fittings that look pretty good, I just need to figure
how smooth to make them without over doing it!
Thanks for the help. I feel these questions are a bit juvenile, but they caused
me some angst last night whilst trying to fall asleep!
Mark
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382682#382682
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Cardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Steel Fittings and Prep questions |
Rounded edges on the steel fittings is no problem.
Polish them using a Scotchbrite wheel on your grinder. It is especially
important to polish the edges before you do any bending.
When drilling holes use an undersized twist drill and use a reamer for final
hole sizing.
Greg Cardinal
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Roberts" <mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2012 1:47 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Steel Fittings and Prep questions
>
>
> I began cutting steel last night and I made my first Cabane fittings that
> will go on the Fuse to hold the center Cabanes onto the fuselage. Drilled
> the holes with a borrowed MicroLux mill so it is all accurate down to the
> .001 (sure makes it easy to just turn a crank handle ever so many turns to
> dial in a measurement!)
>
> I have been reading Tony B's chapter on fittings and have a few questions:
>
> He mentions having NO scratches on the steel, and to keep the edges of the
> steel rather sharp. I rounded the edges of the flat stock with the
> grinder. I hate to sound naive, but I am with steel: is rounded edges on
> the straps a problem?
>
> Polishing the faces of the steel: I bought a grinder that has 2 wheels- a
> rough and a fine wheel. BUT, the wheels are about 3/4" wide, and so I have
> used the side of the wheels to grind the round edges, otherwise I would
> get a series of 3/4" marks all down the side, and would not be smooth or
> consistant. So, what do you use to polish the FACE of the part to prep it
> for the Zinc paint? I got some very small marks in the steel from filing
> the edges off of the holes I drilled, so I'd like to polish them out.
> Nothing deep, just the standard scratches in the face of the steel when
> you run a file over it.
>
> Also, when fitting these to the fuselage, I am assuming the 2 holes that
> are drilled in the fuse to mount these fittings (again, to hold the center
> cabanes to the fuse) are drilled as such: the first hole at the bottom of
> the fitting is drilled through the side strut leading to the top longeron,
> and the second hole through the center line of the side of the top
> longeron. Is this correct? How far up should the 1/4" hole be above the
> top longeron to safely fit the cabane strut?
>
> I am comfortable with the wood, but haven't found my sea legs yet with the
> steel. However, I DO have 8 new fittings that look pretty good, I just
> need to figure how smooth to make them without over doing it!
>
> Thanks for the help. I feel these questions are a bit juvenile, but they
> caused me some angst last night whilst trying to fall asleep!
>
> Mark
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382682#382682
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ryan M <aircamperace(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Steel Fittings and Prep questions |
Mark do you have any pics of the MicroLux in action?=0A=0ARyan=0A=0A=0A____
____________________________=0A From: Mark Roberts <mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com>
=0ATo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com =0ASent: Saturday, September 8, 2012 2:
47 PM=0ASubject: Pietenpol-List: Steel Fittings and Prep questions=0A =0A--
=0A=0AI began cutting steel last night and I made my first Cabane fittings
that will go on the Fuse to hold the center Cabanes onto the fuselage. Dril
led the holes with a borrowed MicroLux mill so it is all accurate down to t
he .001 (sure makes it easy to just turn a crank handle ever so many turns
to dial in a measurement!)=0A=0AI have been reading Tony B's chapter on fit
tings and have a few questions:=0A=0AHe mentions having NO scratches on the
steel, and to keep the edges of the steel rather sharp. I rounded the edge
s of the flat stock with the grinder. I hate to sound naive, but I am with
steel: is rounded edges on the straps a problem?=0A=0APolishing the faces o
f the steel: I bought a grinder that has 2 wheels- a rough and a fine wheel
. BUT, the wheels are about 3/4" wide, and so I have used the side of the w
heels to grind the round edges, otherwise I would get a series of 3/4" mark
s all down the side, and would not be smooth or consistant. So, what do you
use to polish the FACE of the part to prep it for the Zinc paint? I got so
me very small marks in the steel from filing the edges off of the holes I d
rilled, so I'd like to polish them out. Nothing deep, just the standard scr
atches in the face of the steel when you run a file over it.=0A=0AAlso, whe
n fitting these to the fuselage, I am assuming the 2 holes that are drilled
in the fuse to mount these fittings (again, to hold the center cabanes to
the fuse) are drilled as such: the first hole at the bottom of the fitting
is drilled through the side strut leading to the top longeron, and the seco
nd hole through the center line of the side of the top longeron. Is this co
rrect? How far up should the 1/4" hole be above the top longeron to safely
fit the cabane strut?=0A=0AI am comfortable with the wood, but haven't foun
d my sea legs yet with the steel. However, I DO have 8 new fittings that lo
ok pretty good, I just need to figure how smooth to make them without over
doing it!=0A=0AThanks for the help. I feel these questions are a bit juveni
le, but they caused me some angst last night whilst trying to fall asleep!
=0A=0AMark=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.ma
=============
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Steel Fittings and Prep questions |
| From: | "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com> |
Mark,
You mention polishing, then mention you have a grinder with a fine and coarse wheel...
Several things come to mind here. First, a "grinder" is a nebulous term. You
have a grinder motor (?) with a couple of grinding wheels on it most likely.
Those wheels, coarse and fine, 3/4" wide, are most likely aluminum oxide wheels.
They are good for actually shaping parts you are making, as well as "polishing"
to the extent of maybe removing saw marks (hack saw, contour saw, horiz
metal cutting saw, etc) from the edges of parts before you polish them.
In the big scheme of things, those things are pretty coarse and generally leave
a scratch pattern deep enough to create stress risers. Which is how they can
shape metal. Things that polish, for the most part, don't change the shape of
the metal significantly.
So, what Greg mentions is a "scotchbrite" wheel. It'll look quite like the wheels
on your "grinder", but it's made of a propietary stuff that really is just
a fine abrasive that will take out grinder marks. Probably not quite aggressive
enough to take out most saw marks. Does that make sense?
Those scotchbrite wheels are about a hundred bucks, though they'll last for a dozen
or so piets... You would mount it on your grinder, which is why I call "grinders"
nebulous, because once you do that, it's kind of a polisher, ya know?
Really, it's just a motor, what it does depends on what you have mounted on
it.
A quick safety note. Those gray aluminum oxide wheels aren't really meant to be
used on the sides, though about everyone does. Just be careful and don't put
a lot of pressure when using the sides.
You can also use sanders to do the polishing you need for these metal fittings.
They're called sanders because the most common use for them is to mount a belt
of sandpaper and sand wood. However, you can get "sandpaper" in all sorts
of configurations. Stuff specifically made to withstand the harshness of "sanding"
metal, sufficiently fine, will do the same polishing as the scotchbrite
wheel. Sufficiently coarse, will shape metal easily.
The most common sanders for this sort of thing is a little benchtop sander that
uses 1"x30" or 1"x42" belts, or one that uses a 4"x36" or 4"x48" belt, or ones
that use various sized discs.
Aluminum oxide sanding belts are generally used for woodworking (and are reddish)
but will work. Better (and more expensive) are blue ones made of Zirconium
Oxide. Coarse ones are good enough to shape metal, really fine ones do a grand
job of polishing out saw marks and deep scratches left by the coarser belts
(or grinding wheels).
Google a company called Klingspor, or "the sanding company" for some great info
on sanding products.
So, generally, and for a quick efficient job, it's a couple of steps. Cut out
the part (with some sort of saw). Do further shaping (files, grinders or coarse
sanding belts). Use the same gizmo you used for "further shaping" to get ride
of really coarse saw marks (or milling machine marks, whatever). Then use
fine products (belts, scotchbrite wheels, or even really fine files) to just
get rid of any obvious easily visible scratches.
Keep in mind how you use any given method of sanding, or grinding (which are also
merely methods of cutting) matters. A coarse medium applied randomly, will
produce a smoother surface, hence the effectiveness of random orbit (or dual
action) sanders. Although it's a bit deceiving. The size of the particle doing
the cutting really is the governing factor. But when applied randomly, there
aren't really any long deep straight scratches.
Pay close attention when you use a file. When used one way, there's an obvious
scratch pattern left behind (bad for stress risers and eventual cracks), but
used another way (as in drawfiling) a smooth surface is left behind.
The goal of all of this is to NOT leave behind a scratch pattern that is conducive
to metal cracking with exposure to vibration (or while bending).
If you keep that in mind, it makes more sense.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382688#382688
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Steel Fittings and Prep questions |
| From: | "Mark Roberts" <mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com> |
Not yet, but I'll take some. I don't have it connected to any stepper motors to
use it as a CNC, but I am thinking about it. Wouldn't be too hard... But, for
just boring holes in a straight line, I am 'counting the turns' manually! :D
I'll post some soon...
aircamperace(at)yahoo.com wrote:
> Mark do you have any pics of the MicroLux in action?
>
>
> Ryan
>
>
> From: Mark Roberts
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Saturday, September 8, 2012 2:47 PM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Steel Fittings and Prep questions
>
>
>
> I began cutting steel last night and I made my first Cabane fittings that will
go on the Fuse to hold the center Cabanes onto the fuselage. Drilled the holes
with a borrowed MicroLux mill so it is all accurate down to the .001 (sure
makes it easy to just turn a crank handle ever so many turns to dial in a measurement!)
>
> I have been reading Tony B's chapter on fittings and have a few questions:
>
> He mentions having NO scratches on the steel, and to keep the edges of the steel
rather sharp. I rounded the edges of the flat stock with the grinder. I hate
to sound naive, but I am with steel: is rounded edges on the straps a problem?
>
> Polishing the faces of the steel: I bought a grinder that has 2 wheels- a rough
and a fine wheel. BUT, the wheels are about 3/4" wide, and so I have used
the side of the wheels to grind the round edges, otherwise I would get a series
of 3/4" marks all down the side, and would not be smooth or consistant. So,
what do you use to polish the FACE of the part to prep it for the Zinc paint?
I got some very small marks in the steel from filing the edges off of the holes
I drilled, so I'd like to polish them out. Nothing deep, just the standard scratches
in the face of the steel when you run a file over it.
>
> Also, when fitting these to the fuselage, I am assuming the 2 holes that are
drilled in the fuse to mount these fittings (again, to hold the center cabanes
to the fuse) are drilled as such: the first hole at the bottom of the fitting
is drilled through the side strut leading to the top longeron, and the second
hole through the center line of the side of the top longeron. Is this correct?
How far up should the 1/4" hole be above the top longeron to safely fit the
cabane strut?
>
> I am comfortable with the wood, but haven't found my sea legs yet with the steel.
However, I DO have 8 new fittings that look pretty good, I just need to
figure how smooth to make them without over doing it!
>
> Thanks for the help. I feel these questions are a bit juvenile, but they caused
me some angst last night whilst trying to fall asleep!
>
> Mark
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopicmatronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382689#382689
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Steel Fittings and Prep questions |
| From: | "Mark Roberts" <mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com> |
Wow! Thanks guys for the good replies. I am doing some further research on the
Scotch-Brite wheels mentioned and there appears to be a series of them. Not to
beat a dead horse, as I bet all of them would work well, but do you have any
idea which might e better at this on 4130 than perhaps another? Here are a couple
of links on amazon:
http://www.amazon.com/Scotch-Brite-Multi-Finishing-Wheel-PRICE-WHEEL/dp/B0006N7KZE
http://www.amazon.com/Scotch-Brite-Deburring-Wheel-PRICE-WHEEL/dp/B0012ISZOM/ref=pd_sbs_indust_3
and finally:
http://www.amazon.com/Scotch-Brite-Deburring-Wheel-PRICE-WHEEL/dp/B0012ISZOM/ref=pd_sbs_indust_3
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382690#382690
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Steel Fittings and Prep questions |
| From: | "Mark Roberts" <mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com> |
BTW, Thanks Tools for the very detailed help... I am off to look for stuff at http://www.klingspor.com/
(Always wondered where the Klingons came from... This being the 46th anniversary
of Star Trek)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382691#382691
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Steel Fittings and Prep questions |
| From: | "Billy McCaskill" <billmz(at)cox.net> |
Mark, don't forget to very lightly chamfer/deburr any holes that you drill or ream
in your steel fittings. This will also help prevent stress risers.
--------
Billy McCaskill
Baker, LA
tail section almost done, starting on ribs soon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382695#382695
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "FandS_Piet" <fkim79(at)gmail.com> |
Here is a picture of our rib jig. We drew up the rib in autocad and had it routed
it out on a cnc. The reason we came up with this ideas is being that my father
and I are both building together we wanted to be able to both make ribs
in our own garages at our leisure as we continue to focus on other parts of the
build when we get together. We wanted to ensure that they where exactly the
same. All the gusset areas are routed down about 1/32 so you can inlay and snap
the bottom gussets in place, that way we can glue both sides of the rib up
at once and complete a whole rib per night instead of just one side. After
the first rib my dad came up with the clever idea of making a peg board to remove
the completed rib once dry.
--------
Fred Kim
Pittsburgh, Pa
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382701#382701
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/gedc1585_135.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/gedc1564_957.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gene Rambo <generambo(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Steel Fittings and Prep questions |
J...F...C... Tools=2C write a book or something . . . .
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Steel Fittings and Prep questions
> From: n0kkj(at)yahoo.com
> Date: Sat=2C 8 Sep 2012 13:22:15 -0700
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>
>
> Mark=2C
>
> You mention polishing=2C then mention you have a grinder with a fine and
coarse wheel...
>
> Several things come to mind here. First=2C a "grinder" is a nebulous ter
m. You have a grinder motor (?) with a couple of grinding wheels on it mos
t likely. Those wheels=2C coarse and fine=2C 3/4" wide=2C are most likely
aluminum oxide wheels. They are good for actually shaping parts you are ma
king=2C as well as "polishing" to the extent of maybe removing saw marks (h
ack saw=2C contour saw=2C horiz metal cutting saw=2C etc) from the edges of
parts before you polish them.
>
> In the big scheme of things=2C those things are pretty coarse and general
ly leave a scratch pattern deep enough to create stress risers. Which is h
ow they can shape metal. Things that polish=2C for the most part=2C don't
change the shape of the metal significantly.
>
> So=2C what Greg mentions is a "scotchbrite" wheel. It'll look quite like
the wheels on your "grinder"=2C but it's made of a propietary stuff that r
eally is just a fine abrasive that will take out grinder marks. Probably n
ot quite aggressive enough to take out most saw marks. Does that make sens
e?
>
> Those scotchbrite wheels are about a hundred bucks=2C though they'll last
for a dozen or so piets... You would mount it on your grinder=2C which is
why I call "grinders" nebulous=2C because once you do that=2C it's kind of
a polisher=2C ya know? Really=2C it's just a motor=2C what it does depend
s on what you have mounted on it.
>
> A quick safety note. Those gray aluminum oxide wheels aren't really mean
t to be used on the sides=2C though about everyone does. Just be careful a
nd don't put a lot of pressure when using the sides.
>
> You can also use sanders to do the polishing you need for these metal fit
tings. They're called sanders because the most common use for them is to m
ount a belt of sandpaper and sand wood. However=2C you can get "sandpaper"
in all sorts of configurations. Stuff specifically made to withstand the
harshness of "sanding" metal=2C sufficiently fine=2C will do the same polis
hing as the scotchbrite wheel. Sufficiently coarse=2C will shape metal eas
ily.
>
> The most common sanders for this sort of thing is a little benchtop sande
r that uses 1"x30" or 1"x42" belts=2C or one that uses a 4"x36" or 4"x48" b
elt=2C or ones that use various sized discs.
>
> Aluminum oxide sanding belts are generally used for woodworking (and are
reddish) but will work. Better (and more expensive) are blue ones made of
Zirconium Oxide. Coarse ones are good enough to shape metal=2C really fine
ones do a grand job of polishing out saw marks and deep scratches left by
the coarser belts (or grinding wheels).
>
> Google a company called Klingspor=2C or "the sanding company" for some gr
eat info on sanding products.
>
> So=2C generally=2C and for a quick efficient job=2C it's a couple of step
s. Cut out the part (with some sort of saw). Do further shaping (files=2C
grinders or coarse sanding belts). Use the same gizmo you used for "furth
er shaping" to get ride of really coarse saw marks (or milling machine mark
s=2C whatever). Then use fine products (belts=2C scotchbrite wheels=2C or
even really fine files) to just get rid of any obvious easily visible scrat
ches.
>
> Keep in mind how you use any given method of sanding=2C or grinding (whic
h are also merely methods of cutting) matters. A coarse medium applied ran
domly=2C will produce a smoother surface=2C hence the effectiveness of rand
om orbit (or dual action) sanders. Although it's a bit deceiving. The siz
e of the particle doing the cutting really is the governing factor. But wh
en applied randomly=2C there aren't really any long deep straight scratches
.
>
> Pay close attention when you use a file. When used one way=2C there's an
obvious scratch pattern left behind (bad for stress risers and eventual cr
acks)=2C but used another way (as in drawfiling) a smooth surface is left b
ehind.
>
> The goal of all of this is to NOT leave behind a scratch pattern that is
conducive to metal cracking with exposure to vibration (or while bending).
>
> If you keep that in mind=2C it makes more sense.
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382688#382688
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Steel Fittings and Prep questions |
| From: | "Mark Roberts" <mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com> |
Hey guys, slightly off topic, but I am really impressed and grateful to be a part
of this list.... Let me BRIEFLY (I tend to ramble) explain:
Looked for years to decided what to build. Didn't look at the support groups or
lists like this to determine what to build, but I should have. I have a link
directly to this list that I use to log in. Tonight I had to log on via the forums.matronics.com
site and navigate to this group. On the way I slowly scrolled
through the main page of groups to see what other groups are active. I had
NO idea that this group was far away the most active and helpful! Have you guys
seen the difference in the amount of posts here versus the other popular builds?
I was very surprised and very pleased.
You know, it could be somewhat intimidating to see how much this forum is read,
but you guys make it so comfortable to ask a question, and are so supportive
and non-cliquish that I haven't thought about asking a question or two. I'd like
to again say thanks for the help.
So I'll be ordering a scotch-brite wheel soon. But until then, I sure appreciate
the advice and moral support. I hope I can afford a Brodhead trip next year!
Mark
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382715#382715
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Steel Fittings and Prep questions |
| From: | "Mark Roberts" <mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com> |
Quick follow up on the first post question that I didn't see addressed is placement
of the drilled holes for the cabana fittings:
Also, when fitting these to the fuselage, I am assuming the 2 holes that are drilled
in the fuse to mount these fittings (again, to hold the center cabanes to
the fuse) are drilled as such: the first hole at the bottom of the fitting is
drilled through the side strut leading to the top longeron, and the second hole
through the center line of the side of the top longeron. Is this correct?
How far up should the 1/4" hole be above the top longeron to safely fit the cabane
strut?
Thanks again.
Mark
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382718#382718
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JOSEPH SWITHIN <joeswithin(at)yahoo.com> |
After looking at the Sky Scout and the Aircamper, today's question is: Would the
landing gear used on the Sky Scout work on the Aircamper? Has anyone tried this,
or is there a flaw/design issue that would not allow this to work?
Joe Swithin
Morris, IL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
Oooo.A Sky-camper! You take advantage of the fact that TC has left the
building, although I'm sure this is merely the Sunday morning musings of an
idle mind. Joe - Please explain yourself before you invoke the wrath of his
deputy, Safety Dan! I suspect that this falls into the category of 'some
things you just don't do', like pee into the wind, or kick sand in Chuck
Norris' face.
Gary Boothe
NX308MB
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of JOSEPH
SWITHIN
Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2012 4:48 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: landing gear
After looking at the Sky Scout and the Aircamper, today's question is: Would
the landing gear used on the Sky Scout work on the Aircamper? Has anyone
tried this, or is there a flaw/design issue that would not allow this to
work?
Joe Swithin
Morris, IL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TOM MICHELLE BRANT <tmbrant(at)msn.com> |
I looked at doing this -(not the peeing into the wind part) - The vertical
strut that goes up to the top longeron seems to be the problem for the airc
amper. The point that it meets the longeron in the scout is braced horizon
tally across the fuselage where as in the aircamper=2C it wouldn't be due t
o the location of the front seat. Of course this was after looking at it f
or 5-10 minutes so It's possible that I missed something and someone might
be able to figure something out.
Tom B.
From: gboothe5(at)comcast.net
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: landing gear
Date: Sun=2C 9 Sep 2012 05:22:51 -0700
Oooo=85A Sky-camper! You take advantage of the fact that TC has left the bu
ilding=2C although I=92m sure this is merely the Sunday morning musings of
an idle mind. Joe ' Please explain yourself before you invoke the wrath o
f his deputy=2C Safety Dan! I suspect that this falls into the category of
=91some things you just don=92t do=92=2C like pee into the wind=2C or kick
sand in Chuck Norris=92 face=85 Gary BootheNX308MB From: owner-pietenpol-li
st-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]
On Behalf Of JOSEPH SWITHIN
Sent: Sunday=2C September 09=2C 2012 4:48 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: landing gear After looking at the Sky Scout and th
e Aircamper=2C today's question is: Would the landing gear used on the Sky
Scout work on the Aircamper? Has anyone tried this=2C or is there a flaw/de
sign issue that would not allow this to work?
Joe Swithin
Morris=2C IL http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhttp://foru
ms.matronics.comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Steel Fittings and Prep questions |
| From: | "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com> |
Mine are about a half inch I'd say (I'm not where the plane is now to check for
sure).
That upper hole being located on the centerline of the longeron should set things
where they were designed to be.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382729#382729
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: landing gear |
| From: | "echobravo4" <eab4(at)comcast.net> |
yep-
been done
Walter Argenbright- pics on west coast piet
--------
Earl Brown
I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I
intended to be.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382732#382732
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | johnwoods(at)westnet.com.au |
| Subject: | First Flight of VH-XHE |
Dear List,
I am please to report that o n Monday 27th August at 0700, Aircamper VH-XHE took
first flight with builder Graham Hewitt, aged 84, at the controls.
The 20 minute flight was completed safely at Jandakot airport in Western Australia.
This morning, 9th Sept at 0700, Graham took to the skies for a second time completing
two circuits and landing safely on the grass strip adjacent to the runway.
Those of you who have been on the list for a while may remember Graham. He started
the project about 7 years ago. The Pietenpol being his third homebuilt.
Graham is a retired airline pilot with many thousands of hours flying single and
multi engine conventional U/C aircraft and holds a low level aerobatic rating.
Graham's Aircamper is the long fuselage variant with Riblette 612 aerofoil and
powered by an O-235 Lycoming.
The wing, incorporating built-up spars and Piper style landing gear construction
are from Jim Wills plans. Graham has also incorporated a door for the front
seat.
Empty weight at 740lbs, initial flight reports indicate an excellent ROC and 85
kts at 2500 RPM with a 68x45 prop and at 33 kts she was still flying but had
a high ROD and wings stayed level.
Initial flight problem was a nose heavy tendency possibly caused by wash-in at
the tips of the stabiliser.
This was corrected prior to the second flight however back stick was still required
to keep the nose from dropping in level flight. To be resolved first before
more extensive flight testing can continue.
The wing is shifted back 2" from vertical and the CoG was with in range for the
612.
See attached photo of VH-XHE resting after her second flight.
Hopefully a video will be posted in time and I can provide updates as to flight
performance, especially for those interested in the 612.
Best regards,
John Woods
Perth, Western Australia
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | airlion <airlion(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: what I would do differently, wing spars and other |
things
Kevin, you might consider putting an aluminum pan for the back seat.. It confrms
to my bottom and is quiet comfy.. I did and it dropped me 1.5 inches. You might
try and figure out how you can do it to the front pit. I have a cut out in
the center section and that is where I anchor the front shoulder harness. It
also gives the right angle. The aluminum pan is also suggested b Tony Bengelis.
My center section fuel tank is 20.5 gallons and I drain from the front for flying
downhill and a drain in the back for flying uphill. Both drains flow down
with the tail on the ground to the gasculator. Cheers, Gardiner
--- On Thu, 9/6/12, kevinpurtee wrote:
> From: kevinpurtee <kevin.purtee(at)us.army.mil>
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: what I would do differently, wing spars and other
things
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Thursday, September 6, 2012, 11:48 AM
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted
> by: "kevinpurtee"
>
> So Oscar, you know that despite the fact that I'm recovering
> I can still kick your butt, right?:)
>
> Just kidding, of course.
>
> On the rebuild, we will do the following:
>
> - 3 piece wing,
> - Use a Gary Boothe fuel tank (~16 gallons),
> - Move the fuel tank filler port forward a little for ease
> of refueling,
> - Probably use the lightweight fabric as Jack mentioned,
> - Slant the back seat back a little as Jack mentioned,
> - Figure out a way to make Shelley more comfortable in the
> front seat, raise the seat, figure out better cushions,
> whatever,
> - Maybe raise the turtle deck an inch? We'll see,
> - Use fittings at the top of the rear cabanes as an attach
> point for the front seat shoulder harness attach cable vs.
> the through-the-cabane eyebolts we used,
> - Maybe use a head rest to raise the back seat shoulder
> harness,
> - I loved the brakes, but need to figure out a way to quit
> popping spokes. May just use Jack's design.
> We'll see,
> - Maybe a cutout in the wing?
> - Add a sump to the fuel tank, of course....
>
> I loved the airplane and it performed nicely. These
> are changes for convenience (except for the sump in the fuel
> tank, of course...).
>
> --------
> Kevin "Axel" Purtee
> NX899KP
> Austin/San Marcos, TX
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382508#382508
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Email Forum -
> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
> List Contribution Web Site -
> -Matt
> Dralle, List Admin.
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | First Flight of VH-XHE |
Excellent news, John and congratulations to Graham! It'll be interesting to
get the flight data from the Riblett, although with an O-235, a barn door
would produce a good climb rate.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
johnwoods(at)westnet.com.au
Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2012 11:53 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: First Flight of VH-XHE
Dear List,
I am please to report that on Monday 27th August at 0700, Aircamper VH-XHE
took first flight with builder Graham Hewitt, aged 84, at the controls.
The 20 minute flight was completed safely at Jandakot airport in Western
Australia.
This morning, 9th Sept at 0700, Graham took to the skies for a second time
completing two circuits and landing safely on the grass strip adjacent to
the runway.
Those of you who have been on the list for a while may remember Graham. He
started the project about 7 years ago. The Pietenpol being his third
homebuilt.
Graham is a retired airline pilot with many thousands of hours flying single
and multi engine conventional U/C aircraft and holds a low level aerobatic
rating.
Graham's Aircamper is the long fuselage variant with Riblette 612 aerofoil
and powered by an O-235 Lycoming.
The wing, incorporating built-up spars and Piper style landing gear
construction are from Jim Wills plans. Graham has also incorporated a door
for the front seat.
Empty weight at 740lbs, initial flight reports indicate an excellent ROC and
85 kts at 2500 RPM with a 68x45 prop and at 33 kts she was still flying but
had a high ROD and wings stayed level.
Initial flight problem was a nose heavy tendency possibly caused by wash-in
at the tips of the stabiliser.
This was corrected prior to the second flight however back stick was still
required to keep the nose from dropping in level flight. To be resolved
first before more extensive flight testing can continue.
The wing is shifted back 2" from vertical and the CoG was with in range for
the 612.
See attached photo of VH-XHE resting after her second flight.
Hopefully a video will be posted in time and I can provide updates as to
flight performance, especially for those interested in the 612.
Best regards,
John Woods
Perth, Western Australia
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: First Flight of VH-XHE |
| From: | "nightmare" <pauldonahuepilot(at)yahoo.com> |
Thank you for the info John. pass along to Graham a hearty congrats on a beautiful
airplane.
there are around 10 or so (that i know of) who are planning, building, or flying
with the riblett wing. more are probably contemplating the option. I've been
gathering info about the setup but would love to get as much info as possible
so that we all can have our riblett piets setup correctly the first time if
at all possible. with that said, I'd like to request the following details.
1. are the fore and aft cabane struts the same length? (angle of incidence)
2. what cg range is Graham using?
3. how much does he or who ever was flight testing weigh?
4. are the motor mounts extended beyond standard?
5. nose tank, wing tank, or both? and were they all filled for test flight?
6. starter? battery location?
any other questions or enlightened facts that fellow Riblett piet builders would
like to pass along would also be helpful.
Hopefully you guys down under can give us the down low. Thanks; Paul
pauldonahuepilot(at)yahoo.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382749#382749
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: First Flight of VH-XHE |
| From: | "nightmare" <pauldonahuepilot(at)yahoo.com> |
Oh yea; here's another;
7. did Graham build in any dihedral or washout?
Thanks; Paul
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382750#382750
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Steel Fittings and Prep questions |
| From: | "Mark Roberts" <mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com> |
Thanks Tools!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382754#382754
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris" <catdesigns(at)att.net> |
Joe
You mean something like this? One thing you learn after being involved with
Pietenpol for a while is, if you can think of it someone already tried it.
Chris
Sacramento, Ca
Westcoastpiet.com
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of JOSEPH
SWITHIN
Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2012 4:48 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: landing gear
After looking at the Sky Scout and the Aircamper, today's question is: Would
the landing gear used on the Sky Scout work on the Aircamper? Has anyone
tried this, or is there a flaw/design issue that would not allow this to
work?
Joe Swithin
Morris, IL
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Steel Fittings and Prep questions |
| From: | "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com> |
An exception I can think of is if you're making wood struts or something and designed
those fittings differently than original and need the hole a little further
away from the longeron or something.
Also, there's a BUNCH of fittings on the plans for brace wiring where the hole
really isn't far enough away from the fuse to allow putting in the clevis pin
in the correct orientation (ie from the top) or easily. Knowing this ahead of
time and making them a tad longer (sometimes as little as a 1/4") would make
a world of difference.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382762#382762
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Steel Fittings and Prep questions |
| From: | "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com> |
kevinpurtee wrote:
> When you take your hand drill and use a technique called "wallering" to get the
bolts to go through...
Man ain't this the truth! In all fairness, will probably have to "waller" a bit
less though.
waller (n. wall-er latin) 1. art of making bolts fit close tolerance holes
sp. wallo, wallos, wallamos, wallas, wallan
Is it too late to get this in the Tony B. glossary of homebuilding terms?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382763#382763
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ryan Mueller <ryan(at)rmueller.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Steel Fittings and Prep questions |
You're just custom fitting each hole to the bolt....picking up the
slack from the manufacturing tolerances....ahem
Sent from my iPhone
On Sep 9, 2012, at 3:45 PM, tools wrote:
>
>
> kevinpurtee wrote:
>> When you take your hand drill and use a technique called "wallering" to get
the bolts to go through...
>
>
> Man ain't this the truth! In all fairness, will probably have to "waller" a
bit less though.
>
> waller (n. wall-er latin) 1. art of making bolts fit close tolerance holes
>
> sp. wallo, wallos, wallamos, wallas, wallan
>
> Is it too late to get this in the Tony B. glossary of homebuilding terms?
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382763#382763
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: landing gear |
| From: | "Billy McCaskill" <billmz(at)cox.net> |
Pietenwhatinthheckisthat? I like his cargo pods on the lift struts, though.
--------
Billy McCaskill
Baker, LA
tail section almost done, starting on ribs soon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382768#382768
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | V Groah <vgroah(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | First Flight of VH-XHE |
It is great to hear of all these success stories. Gary in California=2C no
w another new one. Good stuff!!! Mike Groah is back in the air with his i
n California as well.
From: pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: First Flight of VH-XHE
Date: Sun=2C 9 Sep 2012 14:02:58 -0400
Excellent news=2C John and congratulations to Graham! It=92ll be interesti
ng to get the flight data from the Riblett=2C although with an O-235=2C a b
arn door would produce a good climb rate.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake=2C Virginia
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-lis
t-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of johnwoods(at)westnet.com.au
Sent: Sunday=2C September 09=2C 2012 11:53 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: First Flight of VH-XHE
Dear List=2C
I am please to report that on Monday 27th August at 0700=2C Aircamper VH-XH
E took first flight with builder Graham Hewitt=2C aged 84=2C at the control
s.
The 20 minute flight was completed safely at Jandakot airport in Western Au
stralia.
This morning=2C 9th Sept at 0700=2C Graham took to the skies for a second t
ime completing two circuits and landing safely on the grass strip adjacent
to the runway.
Those of you who have been on the list for a while may remember Graham. He
started the project about 7 years ago. The Pietenpol being his third homebu
ilt.
Graham is a retired airline pilot with many thousands of hours flying singl
e and multi engine conventional U/C aircraft and holds a low level aerobati
c rating.
Graham's Aircamper is the long fuselage variant with Riblette 612 aerofoil
and powered by an O-235 Lycoming.
The wing=2C incorporating built-up spars and Piper style landing gear const
ruction are from Jim Wills plans. Graham has also incorporated a door for t
he front seat.
Empty weight at 740lbs=2C initial flight reports indicate an excellent ROC
and 85 kts at 2500 RPM with a 68x45 prop and at 33 kts she was still flying
but had a high ROD and wings stayed level.
Initial flight problem was a nose heavy tendency possibly caused by wash-in
at the tips of the stabiliser.
This was corrected prior to the second flight however back stick was still
required to keep the nose from dropping in level flight. To be resolved fir
st before more extensive flight testing can continue.
The wing is shifted back 2" from vertical and the CoG was with in range for
the 612.
See attached photo of VH-XHE resting after her second flight.
Hopefully a video will be posted in time and I can provide updates as to fl
ight performance=2C especially for those interested in the 612.
Best regards=2C
John Woods
Perth=2C Western Australia
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Steel Fittings and Prep questions |
Actually when I was working at General Dynamics, I learned that the correct
terminology is to "Obligate" the hole, so that it's obligated to accept the
bolt.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of tools
Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2012 4:41 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Steel Fittings and Prep questions
kevinpurtee wrote:
> When you take your hand drill and use a technique called "wallering" to
get the bolts to go through...
Man ain't this the truth! In all fairness, will probably have to "waller" a
bit less though.
waller (n. wall-er latin) 1. art of making bolts fit close tolerance holes
sp. wallo, wallos, wallamos, wallas, wallan
Is it too late to get this in the Tony B. glossary of homebuilding terms?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382763#382763
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: landing gear |
| From: | "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com> |
Billy,
I believe "the ordnance" are actually small cargo compartments.
--------
Semper Fi,
Terry Hand
Athens, GA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382773#382773
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Daniel Engelkenjohn" <mushface1(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | bottom fitting plate |
On pg. 3 of the plans in the lower left corner =9Cbottom fitting
plate=9D that goes on the bottom of the fuselage. My question:
should the 5/16=9D holes be 28 3/4=9D apart, as that would
be the center to center width of the wing spars?
Dennis
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Steel Fittings and Prep questions |
Check out the RV-10 list sometime. What a bunch of whiners!
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Roberts
Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2012 12:52 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Steel Fittings and Prep questions
Hey guys, slightly off topic, but I am really impressed and grateful to be a
part of this list.... Let me BRIEFLY (I tend to ramble) explain:
Looked for years to decided what to build. Didn't look at the support groups
or lists like this to determine what to build, but I should have. I have a
link directly to this list that I use to log in. Tonight I had to log on via
the forums.matronics.com site and navigate to this group. On the way I
slowly scrolled through the main page of groups to see what other groups are
active. I had NO idea that this group was far away the most active and
helpful! Have you guys seen the difference in the amount of posts here
versus the other popular builds? I was very surprised and very pleased.
You know, it could be somewhat intimidating to see how much this forum is
read, but you guys make it so comfortable to ask a question, and are so
supportive and non-cliquish that I haven't thought about asking a question
or two. I'd like to again say thanks for the help.
So I'll be ordering a scotch-brite wheel soon. But until then, I sure
appreciate the advice and moral support. I hope I can afford a Brodhead trip
next year!
Mark
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382715#382715
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | johnwoods(at)westnet.com.au |
| Subject: | Re: First Flight of VH-XHE |
List,
A correction to my report on Graham's engine of choice.
It is a Continental O-200.
To those with inquiring minds, I will pass the questions on to Graham for answers.
Best regards,
> John Woods
Perth , Western Australia
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Steel Fittings and Prep questions |
| From: | "Mark Roberts" <mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com> |
Hey guys, slightly off topic, but I am really impressed and grateful to be a part
of this list.... Let me BRIEFLY (I tend to ramble) explain:
Looked for years to decided what to build. Didn't look at the support groups or
lists like this to determine what to build, but I should have. I have a link
directly to this list that I use to log in. Tonight I had to log on via the forums.matronics.com
site and navigate to this group. On the way I slowly scrolled
through the main page of groups to see what other groups are active. I had
NO idea that this group was far away the most active and helpful! Have you guys
seen the difference in the amount of posts here versus the other popular builds?
I was very surprised and very pleased.
You know, it could be somewhat intimidating to see how much this forum is read,
but you guys make it so comfortable to ask a question, and are so supportive
and non-cliquish that I haven't thought about asking a question or two. I'd like
to again say thanks for the help.
So I'll be ordering a scotch-brite wheel soon. But until then, I sure appreciate
the advice and moral support. I hope I can afford a Brodhead trip next year!
Mark
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382782#382782
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris" <catdesigns(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | bottom fitting plate |
That's how I installed mine.
Chris
Sacramento, Ca
Westcoastpiet.com
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Daniel
Engelkenjohn
Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2012 5:43 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: bottom fitting plate
On pg. 3 of the plans in the lower left corner "bottom fitting plate" that
goes on the bottom of the fuselage. My question: should the 5/16" holes be
28 3/4" apart, as that would be the center to center width of the wing
spars?
Dennis
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: First Flight of VH-XHE |
| From: | "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
She's a beauty, mate! Glad to hear that the first flights have been safe and successful
so far. Carry on!
It will be of great interest to all on this list to hear how the airplane handles
and performs with the Riblett. The more data that can be carefully acquired
while flight testing, the better. In fact, I'll bet that Doc Mosher would welcome
a semi-technical article for the BPA Newsletter on performance with the
Riblett vs. the tried-and-true Pietenpol wing. In this case, the best comparison
would be between O-200 powered Piets, but any data would be good. Stall
speed, cruise speed, time to climb, speed vs. RPM, trim force required. Input!
Data points! Once the initial rigging tweaks are made and the test pilot is
comfortable with the airplane, it would be nice to see data start coming in.
I note that the aileron horns have lightening holes in them, thus I assume that
they were not fabricated as hollow airfoil shapes as the plans call for, but
rather from flat metal stock. Are they aluminum?
Cheers!
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford/Ashland, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382783#382783
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jorge lizarraga <flightwood(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: First Flight of VH-XHE?????// |
hi Oscar were I cand see these video jorge from hanford=0A=0A=0AFrom: taild
rags =0ATo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com =0ASent: Su
nday, September 9, 2012 9:37 PM=0ASubject: Pietenpol-List: Re: First Flight
s(at)hotmail.com>=0A=0AShe's a beauty, mate!- Glad to hear that the first fl
ights have been safe and successful so far.- Carry on!=0A=0AIt will be of
great interest to all on this list to hear how the airplane handles and pe
rforms with the Riblett.- The more data that can be carefully acquired wh
ile flight testing, the better.- In fact, I'll bet that Doc Mosher would
welcome a semi-technical article for the BPA Newsletter on performance with
the Riblett vs. the tried-and-true Pietenpol wing.- In this case, the be
st comparison would be between O-200 powered Piets, but any data would be g
ood.- Stall speed, cruise speed, time to climb, speed vs. RPM, trim force
required.- Input!- Data points!- Once the initial rigging tweaks are
made and the test pilot is comfortable with the airplane, it would be nice
to see data start coming in.=0A=0AI note that the aileron horns have light
ening holes in them, thus I assume that they were not fabricated as hollow
airfoil shapes as the plans call for, but rather from flat metal stock.-
Are they aluminum?=0A=0ACheers!=0A=0A--------=0AOscar Zuniga=0AMedford/Ashl
and, OR=0AAir Camper NX41CC "Scout"=0AA75 power=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARea
d this topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p
=========================0A
==
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Clif Dawson" <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Steel Fittings and Prep questions |
I vote for this one!
I bet they used it on sailing ships when the
gronicle just refused to fit the binnicle gimp.
Clif
The Early Bird may get the worm but the second
mouse gets the cheese.
>
> Actually when I was working at General Dynamics, I learned that the
> correct
> terminology is to "Obligate" the hole, so that it's obligated to accept
> the
> bolt.
>
> Jack Phillips
> NX899JP
> Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JOSEPH SWITHIN <joeswithin(at)yahoo.com> |
Thanks for the info and photos. I knew I would get some great intel form th
is group. (I also factored in more good natured abuse.)=0A-=0AJoe Swithin
=0AMorris, IL=0AHunting and Gathering Mode
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Mtn Piet wing repair update |
| From: | Greg Bacon <gbacon67(at)gmail.com> |
Hey Guys,
Here's a quick update:
This weekend I covered the center section (see attached photos). I
switched from Poly Fiber to Stewart Systems. I met Rick (last name
Schreiber I think) at Brodhead this year, and he sold me on the Stewart
Systems covering process. Because of the fumes from the Poly Fiber
products, I was planning to move the wing out of the basement and into the
barn. This presented a hold up until I made the barn suitable for wing
work. There are no fumes with the Stewart Systems stuff, so I'm carrying
on with the covering process in our basement. This saved a bunch of work
for me. Thank you Rick!! By the way, I'll make someone a good deal on
some unopened Poly Fiber products. Paint will be latex to match the rest
of the plane. John Dilatush (Mtn Piet builder) used latex with a flexing
agent additive. Another plug for Stewart Systems - The 6 disk video set is
very good, and I've spoken with Dan Stewart a couple of times. He's
patient and very willing to help.
Overall, I'm pleased with the result so far. I still have to apply finish
tape around the edges. The trailing edge cutout was a challenge. Hope it
looks ok when painted.
--
Greg Bacon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | johnwoods(at)westnet.com.au |
| Subject: | Re: First Flight of VH-XHE |
For the curious minds, Graham has provided the following information:
Re cabanes: I will measure these but were cut to give exact incidence Harry Riblett
stated. i.e. one degree positive.
Ribletts C/G range is Fwd limit 18% MAC or 10.8 inches from Wing LE
Aft limit 28 % MAC or 16.8 inches from Wing LE
But for initial first flight he suggest an Aft limit of 25% or 15 inches then move
in increment to 28%
Really looking fwd to doing more on stalls but not till the trim prob is resolved
& the ASI is checked out properly
I weigh 85 Kgs & had 45 litres of fuel for the first flight so the AUW would have
been close to 970 Lbs
Motor mount extended 1.5 inches
Fuel tank in nose holds 62 Lts. 45 lts for initial flight
Starter is a very heavy Delco Remy weighs 17 lbs mounted rear housing of 0200 engine
suggest a lite weight B&C
Tail wheel a very heavy 6 inch Swivel from AC Spruce.
Battery small Odyesy mounted on fire wall
Booster pump fitted as gravity flow was marginal when near empty small Alternator
fitted to fuel pump pad of 0200
Wing has 1 degree dihedral & 1 degree of wash out so far seems to be very docile
with no sign of much sink after stall but early days here
The only other Piet I have flown is the original Scout with model A built by Bernie
in 1934 now based in Perth would you believe.
Should have some pics & U Tube soon if any one wishes to email me direct. grhewitt(at)globaldial.com
Regards Graham remember this Piet has less than one hours flight time so all data
very provisional.
To answer Oscar's question, the control horns are flat 4130 I believe. The aileron
horns pass through as per original plans but the rudder and elevator horns
are bolted onto the outside surfaces.
Best regards,
John Woods
Perth Western Australia
----- "taildrags" wrote:
She's a beauty, mate! Glad to hear that the first flights have been safe and successful
so far. Carry on!
It will be of great interest to all on this list to hear how the airplane handles
and performs with the Riblett. The more data that can be carefully acquired
while flight testing, the better. In fact, I'll bet that Doc Mosher would welcome
a semi-technical article for the BPA Newsletter on performance with the Riblett
vs. the tried-and-true Pietenpol wing. In this case, the best comparison
would be between O-200 powered Piets, but any data would be good. Stall speed,
cruise speed, time to climb, speed vs. RPM, trim force required. Input! Data
points! Once the initial rigging tweaks are made and the test pilot is comfortable
with the airplane, it would be nice to see data start coming in.
I note that the aileron horns have lightening holes in them, thus I assume that
they were not fabricated as hollow airfoil shapes as the plans call for, but
rather from flat metal stock. Are they aluminum?
Cheers!
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford/Ashland, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382783#382783
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: First Flight of VH-XHE |
For the curious minds, Graham has provided the following information:
blah blah blah.....
Wing has 1 degree dihedral & 1 degree of wash out so far seems to be very docile
with no sign of much sink after stall but early days here
1 degree puts the tip approx 2-3/4" higher than the root at around 13 feet....is
the dihedral pretty noticiable or just barely or what's your opinion?
Regards and congrats to Graham!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Mtn Piet wing repair update |
As usual, the postings here are quite timely as I moved my CS into the shop
and will start the covering process of it in a few days.
Greg, it appears that you glued all of the fabric to the CS, is that correc
t? Did you shrink any of it?
I have used the Ekobond on all of my fabric so far and agree...good stuff a
nd I will use nothing else.
CS looks really nice. If the parts look that nice in bare fabric, you can i
magine how nice after paint!
Michael Perez
=0APietenpol HINT Videos
=0AKaretaker Aero
=0Awww.karetakeraero.com
--- On Mon, 9/10/12, Greg Bacon wrote:
From: Greg Bacon <gbacon67(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Mtn Piet wing repair update
Date: Monday, September 10, 2012, 9:42 AM
Hey Guys,
Here's a quick update:
This weekend I covered the center section (see attached photos). -I switc
hed from Poly Fiber to Stewart Systems. -I met Rick (last name Schreiber
I think) at Brodhead this year, and he sold me on the Stewart Systems cover
ing process. -Because of the fumes from the Poly Fiber products, I was pl
anning to move the wing out of the basement and into the barn. -This pres
ented a hold up until I made the barn suitable for wing work. -There are
no fumes with the Stewart Systems stuff, so I'm carrying on with the coveri
ng process in our basement. -This saved a bunch of work for me. -Thank
you Rick!! -By the way, I'll make someone a good deal on some unopened Po
ly Fiber products. -Paint will be latex to match the rest of the plane.
-John Dilatush (Mtn Piet builder) used latex with a flexing agent additiv
e. -Another plug for Stewart Systems - The 6 disk video set is very good,
and I've spoken with Dan Stewart a couple of times. -He's patient and ve
ry
willing to help.=0A
Overall, I'm pleased with the result so far. -I still have to apply finis
h tape around the edges. -The trailing edge cutout was a challenge. -Ho
pe it looks ok when painted.
=0A--
Greg Bacon
=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Mtn Piet wing repair update |
| From: | Greg Bacon <gbacon67(at)gmail.com> |
Mike, yes all the fabric is 100% glued to the wood. And yes, I did run the
iron (light heat 250F) over it to remove wrinkles. This is how Dan Stewart
described the procedure to me (this is not in the video). And he
recommended I use the 1.87 oz fabric as it is easier when covering wood
surfaces and looks better. Dilute the Ekobond 5% with distilled water.
Coat all wood you are about to cover. Let dry for a few minutes till it
is tacky. Apply the fabric. It will cling to the tacky surface. On areas
that were a bit too dry, I used the iron to tack it in place. When
everything was smoothed out and tacked in place, I ironed out the wrinkles
or creases in the fabric that came from being folded up. Next, I applied
the 5% diluted Ekobond to the top of the fabric, wiping off the excess with
a paper towel. The wiping has to be fairly frequent as the Ekobond dries
quickly. In my case, I covered an area about the size of a dinner plate
then wiped excess. Wait too long and you will get stringers. Finally, let
dry then trim excess fabric.
Greg
On Mon, Sep 10, 2012 at 10:49 AM, Michael Perez wrote:
> As usual, the postings here are quite timely as I moved my CS into the
> shop and will start the covering process of it in a few days.
>
> Greg, it appears that you glued all of the fabric to the CS, is that
> correct? Did you shrink any of it?
>
> I have used the Ekobond on all of my fabric so far and agree...good stuff
> and I will use nothing else.
>
> CS looks really nice. If the parts look that nice in bare fabric, you can
> imagine how nice after paint!
>
> Michael Perez
> Pietenpol HINT Videos
> Karetaker Aero
> www.karetakeraero.com
>
> --- On *Mon, 9/10/12, Greg Bacon * wrote:
>
>
> From: Greg Bacon <gbacon67(at)gmail.com>
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Mtn Piet wing repair update
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Monday, September 10, 2012, 9:42 AM
>
>
> Hey Guys,
>
> Here's a quick update:
>
> This weekend I covered the center section (see attached photos). I
> switched from Poly Fiber to Stewart Systems. I met Rick (last name
> Schreiber I think) at Brodhead this year, and he sold me on the Stewart
> Systems covering process. Because of the fumes from the Poly Fiber
> products, I was planning to move the wing out of the basement and into the
> barn. This presented a hold up until I made the barn suitable for wing
> work. There are no fumes with the Stewart Systems stuff, so I'm carrying
> on with the covering process in our basement. This saved a bunch of work
> for me. Thank you Rick!! By the way, I'll make someone a good deal on
> some unopened Poly Fiber products. Paint will be latex to match the rest
> of the plane. John Dilatush (Mtn Piet builder) used latex with a flexing
> agent additive. Another plug for Stewart Systems - The 6 disk video set is
> very good, and I've spoken with Dan Stewart a couple of times. He's
> patient and very willing to help.
>
> Overall, I'm pleased with the result so far. I still have to apply finish
> tape around the edges. The trailing edge cutout was a challenge. Hope it
> looks ok when painted.
>
> --
> Greg Bacon
>
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
--
Greg Bacon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Mtn Piet wing repair update |
Copy- Greg, thanks!- Does not sound too different than covering the oth
er parts.- I may get started on the CS this weekend...I am just now start
ing to reassemble the mags and carburetor.
Michael Perez
=0APietenpol HINT Videos
=0AKaretaker Aero
=0Awww.karetakeraero.com
=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: what I would do differently, wing spars and other |
things
| From: | John Fay <jfay1950(at)gmail.com> |
Regarding useful mods to the pietenpol fuselage:
>From sitting in the pilot's seat with a light winter jacket on, it
seemed very tight in the shoulders. Therefore I am widening the
cockpit at that point by keeping the fuselage the full 24 inch width
until it reaches the pilot's seatback, and then narrowing to the tail.
(Vi Kapler said this should work fine, and it does not add as much
weight as widening the whole fuselage.)
Also to help the w&b, and give more legroom in the front pit and the
baggage compartment, we are moving the corvair motor 4 inches forward
by moving the firewall four inches ahead.
But I am just getting ready to assemble the fuselage from the two
sides I have built, so this recommendation is only worth what you are
paying for it.
John Fay
in Peoria
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: First Flight of VH-XHE |
| From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
John Woods wrote:
> The only other Piet I have flown is the original Scout with model A built by
Bernie in 1934 now based in Perth would you believe.
>
No, I would not believe... because the original was built in 1931 and had a Model
T. In fact, it made a stop at Brodhead this year on it's way to the Ford Museum.
Perhaps you meant "an" original, not "the" original? :-)
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage and Fuse framed up - Working on Landing Gear
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382828#382828
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: First Flight of VH-XHE |
| From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
Oh yeah, congratulations on getting another Piet in the air!
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage and Fuse framed up - Working on Landing Gear
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382829#382829
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: First Flight of VH-XHE |
| From: | "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
>1 degree puts the tip approx 2-3/4" higher than the root at around 13 feet....is
the dihedral pretty noticiable
Jim: Scout has the dihedral set where the tips are 3" higher than the roots and
it's noticeable, but not excessive. See how noticeable it is by looking at the
top three pictures here:
http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/CorkyPiet.html
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford/Ashland, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382843#382843
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: First Flight of VH-XHE |
thanks Oscar....well, that doesn't seem too bad. 3" just sounds like a lot.
appreciate it....
-----Original Message-----
>From: taildrags <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
>Sent: Sep 10, 2012 10:34 PM
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: First Flight of VH-XHE
>
>
>>1 degree puts the tip approx 2-3/4" higher than the root at around 13 feet....is
the dihedral pretty noticiable
>
>Jim: Scout has the dihedral set where the tips are 3" higher than the roots and
it's noticeable, but not excessive. See how noticeable it is by looking at
the top three pictures here:
>
> http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/CorkyPiet.html
>
>--------
>Oscar Zuniga
>Medford/Ashland, OR
>Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
>A75 power
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382843#382843
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Steel Fittings and Prep questions |
I'm with you Oscar!
Michael Perez
Pietenpol HINT Videos
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Greenlee" <jmgreenlee(at)sbcglobal.net> |
Hello all,
I need to hoist a set of (covered) Piet wings into the rafters of my hangar
for some mid term storage. Any advice on how/how not to do this so that I
can get them up and down without damage?
Thx!
JMG
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott Knowlton " <flyingscott_k(at)hotmail.com> |
If you have sufficient space above might I suggest you build a rolling wing stand
(EAA has plans as does Tony B). Put two large bolted eyelits on the top of
the stand either side and hoist the entire works with the wings on up into the
rafters. Worked great for a set of wings for me and I am able to break down
the wing stand. It has been loaned out to other builders on occasion. Less than
a hundred bucks of wood and hardware to build.
Scott Knowlton
-----Original Message-----
From: John Greenlee <jmgreenlee(at)sbcglobal.net>
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2012 15:27:28
Subject: Pietenpol-List: wing hoist
Hello all,
I need to hoist a set of (covered) Piet wings into the rafters of my hangar for
some mid term storage. Any advice on how/how not to do this so that I can get
them up and down without damage?
Thx!
August 23, 2012 - September 12, 2012
Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-lk