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April 26, 2013 - Present

wing panels make the axle bend? I don't know. Hopefully I will find out by the Fall. All in good time. Clif ----- Original Message ----- From: Craig Aho To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2013 8:59 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Axle thickness? I will have to look at that setup. My wire wheel hubs are designed to slip on to the 1.5" axel. > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Axle thickness? > From: n0kkj(at)yahoo.com > Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2013 07:48:13 -0700 > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > > > Hey Craig, > > Something to consider if you don't want to heat treat, is buying a tube already in the state you want and then use a method that doesn't require welding on the tube. > > 2RN has a 3/16 wall tube, but it has 1" solid inserts that go through the 1" ID bearings in the wheels (not sure of your setup). I imagine the 1" inserts (which have a 1/16 wall sleeve to make up the difference between 1 1/2OD, 1 1/8ID - 3/16 wall) do strengthen things up a bit more. Also has a free floating plate with the brake calipers. Anti rotation is via short cables so no welding is required. > > It's been stressed enough to severely bend up a wheel with no ill effects on the axle, so it's a proven system. > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399359#399359 > > > > > > <============= > > > No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 04/25/13 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Clif Dawson" <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: A Pietenpol named Mr. Sam
Date: Apr 26, 2013
Being a bit short torso'd,well, maybe short all over. I was 5' 8 1/2" when younger but now seem to have lost an inch of that somehow. Anyway,this means that my shoulders don't stick up above the turtle deck. THAT means my shoulder harness can safely route through the top edge of the seat back. I have cabled the two straps into one that goes back to the tail post. The rod that fits is 1\2" dia 6061-T6 alum. The black bits on the tail rod are rubber tube lengths to keep the cable centered. If you need them higher and also don't want to cut into the back then possibly my first idea might give you a start. That's the drawing. The bumps were going to be fabric covered balsa. Clif > I've seen several Piets and they do NOT have shoulder harnesses - just > seat belts. Does anyone use a 4-point harness in the back seat or is it > tradition to use only a lap belt? since the seat back is built-in to the frame - there will have to be some serious wood cutting to install the shoulder harness. . > Jim McWhorter > N687MB (New Owner) > Culpeper, VA KCJR ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Telegram
From: "echobravo4" <eab4(at)comcast.net>
Date: Apr 26, 2013
Congratulations Bill! Great number choice too ;) -------- Earl Brown I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I intended to be. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399416#399416 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: A Pietenpol named Mr. Sam
From: "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org>
Date: Apr 26, 2013
Jim, I see you have two (VNE) speeds. I think the 100 MPH should be the correct one. You may want to do your own testing to see if all the different numbers do match your planes performance. What better way to learn about your new plane. Have fun flying and wear that open cockpit smile with pride. Cheers, -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399417#399417 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Telegram
From: "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org>
Date: Apr 26, 2013
Congratulation Bill, What a great feeling when you get the signed docs saying you can fly it. Now go make an airplane out of it and fly. Happy Landings, -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399418#399418 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 26, 2013
From: Andre Abreu <andre_abreu_2000(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Ruddder Horn Repair
Thanks for letting me know.- The permissions on Picasa were not set corre ctly. =0AEveryone should be able to see these photos of the rudder horn fai lure now.=0A=0ABest Regards,=0AAndy Abreu=0AKTDZ =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A___________ _____________________=0A From: Jack <jack(at)textors.com>=0ATo: "pietenpol-lis t(at)matronics.com" =0ASent: Thursday, April 25 , 2013 1:00 PM=0ASubject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Ruddder Horn Repair=0A =0A=0A =0AAndy the link said page not found=0A=0ASent from my iPad=0AJack Textor =0A=0AOn Apr 24, 2013, at 12:22 PM, Andre Abreu wrote:=0A=0A=0AThe Rudder Horn on 6186L broke.- =0A>We removed it from the aircraft and made a repair... just in time for flying season.=0A>=0A>He re are some pictures.=0A>http://http://tinyurl.com/aqe27h3=0A>=0A>Andy Abre =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Ruddder Horn Repair
From: Jack <jack(at)textors.com>
Date: Apr 26, 2013
It worked thanks Andy Sent from my iPad Jack Textor On Apr 26, 2013, at 7:39 AM, Andre Abreu wrote: > Thanks for letting me know. The permissions on Picasa were not set correc tly. > Everyone should be able to see these photos of the rudder horn failure now . > > Best Regards, > Andy Abreu > KTDZ > > > From: Jack <jack(at)textors.com> > To: "pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com" > Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2013 1:00 PM > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Ruddder Horn Repair > > Andy the link said page not found > > Sent from my iPad > Jack Textor > > On Apr 24, 2013, at 12:22 PM, Andre Abreu wro te: > >> The Rudder Horn on 6186L broke. >> We removed it from the aircraft and made a repair... just in time for fly ing season. >> >> Here are some pictures. >> http://http://tinyurl.com/aqe27h3 >> >> Andy Abreu >> KTDZ > > > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Axle thickness?
From: "Chris Rusch" <rmdinfo(at)rmdbenders.com>
Date: Apr 26, 2013
Thanks for all the input....im going to order up the .188 wall tube today. -------- NX321LR Fully Assembled Tail assembly and ailerons covered and painted. Wings covered and primed, one painted Mitsubishi Powered Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399423#399423 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Carb heat Filter??
From: "Chris Rusch" <rmdinfo(at)rmdbenders.com>
Date: Apr 26, 2013
Ive been looking at various carb heat designs, and i notice none of them have air filters on the carb heat side??? am I missing something? i would think you would still want the air filterd, or am i over thinking this. -------- NX321LR Fully Assembled Tail assembly and ailerons covered and painted. Wings covered and primed, one painted Mitsubishi Powered Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399424#399424 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Carb heat Filter??
From: "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org>
Date: Apr 26, 2013
Chris, the standard is that it is unfiltered. Just be cautious when operating it on the ground and on dirt strips. I try not to fly through dust storms, so in the air your engine should be just fine. -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399427#399427 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <jack(at)bedfordlandings.com>
Subject: Carb heat Filter??
Date: Apr 26, 2013
I've never seen an air filter on the carb heat side. Pulling carb heat serves two purposes - it provides warmer air to prevent or remove carburetor ice, but it also provides an alternate air source in case the air filter becomes clogged. This saved my butt years ago when flying my J-3 Cub. I was playing around with toilet paper, throwing a roll out the window and letting it unroll and stream down, then seeing how many times I could cut the paper before it got to the ground. I found the best way was to just do a series of tight loops, hitting the paper at the bottom of each loop. On one pass, I hit it right at the wingtip, catching it in the wingtip vortex. When I made the next loop, I found this beautiful spiral of toilet paper floating in the sky. I couldn't resist aiming for the very center of it, which I managed to hit. Big mistake. That mass of toilet paper packed into the carb air filter and immediately choked off the airflow. The engine sputtered and almost died before I managed to pull the carb heat and open up a new air source. Once I got it on the ground (I was right over the airport), I had to pull handfuls of smoldering toilet paper out of the cooling shrouds, in addition to peeling it out of the air filter. Not the smartest thing I've ever done with an airplane. But it was fun! Jack Phillips NX899JP Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris Rusch Sent: Friday, April 26, 2013 9:28 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Carb heat Filter?? Ive been looking at various carb heat designs, and i notice none of them have air filters on the carb heat side??? am I missing something? i would think you would still want the air filterd, or am i over thinking this. -------- NX321LR Fully Assembled Tail assembly and ailerons covered and painted. Wings covered and primed, one painted Mitsubishi Powered Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399424#399424 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Carb heat Filter??
From: "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org>
Date: Apr 26, 2013
Jack, Great story. i have never tried cutting TP by doing loops. I like the idea. I have only gone in circles. I wasn't taking full advantage of the three dimensional world we pilots live in. I may try that next time. -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399438#399438 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Date: Apr 26, 2013
Subject: toilet paper can be dangerous
Hmmm....never had it block my air intake Jack but I did have it jamb up into the engine cooling eyebrows too one day and start to smolder on the top of those hot,hot cooling fins. I landed promptly and plucked the wad out trailing chards of tissue from the landing gear and X brace cables under the belly. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGJx9mpJ--Y FF to 0:46 to see the action begin here with this pilot cutting toilet paper at Old Rhinebeck Aerodrome in NY. Crepe paper rolls are lots of fun to drop and slice too. I usually do red, white, and blue rolls on the 4th of July if the weather permits. Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Carb heat Filter??
From: "Chris Rusch" <rmdinfo(at)rmdbenders.com>
Date: Apr 26, 2013
Great information Jack Thanks! ok, then that part is done! I did put a screen in front of the heat box opening though. jack(at)bedfordlandings.c wrote: > I've never seen an air filter on the carb heat side. Pulling carb heat > serves two purposes - it provides warmer air to prevent or remove carburetor > ice, but it also provides an alternate air source in case the air filter > becomes clogged. > > This saved my butt years ago when flying my J-3 Cub. I was playing around > with toilet paper, throwing a roll out the window and letting it unroll and > stream down, then seeing how many times I could cut the paper before it got > to the ground. I found the best way was to just do a series of tight loops, > hitting the paper at the bottom of each loop. On one pass, I hit it right > at the wingtip, catching it in the wingtip vortex. When I made the next > loop, I found this beautiful spiral of toilet paper floating in the sky. I > couldn't resist aiming for the very center of it, which I managed to hit. > Big mistake. That mass of toilet paper packed into the carb air filter and > immediately choked off the airflow. The engine sputtered and almost died > before I managed to pull the carb heat and open up a new air source. > > Once I got it on the ground (I was right over the airport), I had to pull > handfuls of smoldering toilet paper out of the cooling shrouds, in addition > to peeling it out of the air filter. Not the smartest thing I've ever done > with an airplane. But it was fun! > > Jack Phillips > NX899JP > Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia > > -- -------- NX321LR Fully Assembled Tail assembly and ailerons covered and painted. Wings covered and primed, one painted Mitsubishi Powered Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399445#399445 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Garmin 1000 video
From: "tkreiner" <tkreiner(at)gmail.com>
Date: Apr 26, 2013
Oscar, This just in... From this mornings EAA email. https://www2.gotomeeting.com/register/865575786 -------- Tom Kreiner Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399453#399453 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Anyone near Beaumont TX?
From: "Mark Roberts" <mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com>
Date: Apr 27, 2013
No, the training industry. For 30 plus years I have been involved with Dale Carnegie Training as an instructor and sales rep. There is an opportunity in Beaumont that I am investigating. ABC: ANYWHERE but California. So, if I do move there, I'm wondering how many Pieters there are to co-mingle with... :o) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399494#399494 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Telegram
From: "Mark Roberts" <mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com>
Date: Apr 27, 2013
Well Done! Love the telegram look too! Post pictures for us land lubbers. Mark Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399495#399495 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick N" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: A Pietenpol named Mr. Sam
Date: Apr 27, 2013
Hi Jim Yes the prop is apparantly the only damage at this point. I am giving it a very strong annual right now and havent found anything else other than a loose nut on the tail wheel. Later Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Boyer To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2013 11:49 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: A Pietenpol named Mr. Sam HI Dick, Sorry to see your Piet nose up in the snow bank. Hope the damage was minimal; probably the prop though. Jim B. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Telegram
From: "BYD" <billsayre(at)ymail.com>
Date: Apr 27, 2013
Thanks all. gboothe wrote: > The CAA hasn't made it to California yet. Very nice, Bill!!! > > Gary Boothe > NX308MB-- Might want to post a couple of people watching the road leading to the airport Gary - last I heard, Newt was heading that direction to see about some event. Mark - here's the most current picture I have (just after assembly after painting). First taxi can be seen at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bI6tOxNJtg&list=UUSczfsX0FNbm-liwVgMkZAQ&index=1 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399502#399502 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/covered_airport_210.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: axle bending
Date: Apr 27, 2013
I have to go measure which thickness tubing I used, but either way, I had an idea for a lightweight method of beefing up a straight axle. Why couldn=92t one transform the tube into a truss by drilling a series of holes and running some 4130 tubing, say =BC or 5/16ths diagonally through the holes and welding them where they protrude. This would add a TON of stiffness and strength without much weight. As long as your welds were really good, I can=92t see why this wouldn=92t work. Besides being labor intensive. Thoughts? Douwe ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <jack(at)bedfordlandings.com>
Subject: Re: A Pietenpol named Mr. Sam
Date: Apr 27, 2013
How about that loose nut in the cockpit? Sorry Dick - couldn't resist such an opening. You gonna have it all repaired in time to fly it to Brodhead? Jack Phillips NX899JP Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dick N Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2013 4:54 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: A Pietenpol named Mr. Sam Hi Jim Yes the prop is apparantly the only damage at this point. I am giving it a very strong annual right now and havent found anything else other than a loose nut on the tail wheel. Later Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Boyer <mailto:boyerjrb(at)comcast.net> Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2013 11:49 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: A Pietenpol named Mr. Sam HI Dick, Sorry to see your Piet nose up in the snow bank. Hope the damage was minimal; probably the prop though. Jim B. href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronic s.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: axle bending
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 27, 2013
Is a slight bending of the straight axle inherently bad? I can't remember w hich thickness I used, but after all the welding I had it magnafluxed. And then last year I did some additional welding of those bungee "dams" that I added. After that I noticed the wheels are canted a bit inward, caused by t he warping from the heat. This did not seem to affect performance at all wi th all those rides I gave at Brodhead last year. Any thoughts? Dan Helsper Puryear, TN -----Original Message----- From: Douwe Blumberg <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> Sent: Sat, Apr 27, 2013 4:29 pm Subject: Pietenpol-List: axle bending I have to go measure which thickness tubing I used, buteither way, I had an idea for a lightweight method of beefing up a straightaxle. Why couldn=99t one transform the tube into a truss bydrilling a serie s of holes and running some 4130 tubing, say =C2=BC or 5/16thsdiagonally th rough the holes and welding them where they protrude. This wouldadd a TON of stiffness and strength without much weight. As long as your weldswere r eally good, I can=99t see why this wouldn=99t work. Besidesbei ng labor intensive. Thoughts? Douwe ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick N" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: A Pietenpol named Mr. Sam
Date: Apr 27, 2013
Hi Jack Yes I will, Hopefully Culver Propellers will come thru with my prop. If not I have a spare. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: Jack Phillips To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2013 5:25 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: A Pietenpol named Mr. Sam How about that loose nut in the cockpit? Sorry Dick - couldn't resist such an opening. You gonna have it all repaired in time to fly it to Brodhead? Jack Phillips NX899JP Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dick N Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2013 4:54 PM To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: A Pietenpol named Mr. Sam Hi Jim Yes the prop is apparantly the only damage at this point. I am giving it a very strong annual right now and havent found anything else other than a loose nut on the tail wheel. Later Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Boyer To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2013 11:49 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: A Pietenpol named Mr. Sam HI Dick, Sorry to see your Piet nose up in the snow bank. Hope the damage was minimal; probably the prop though. Jim B. href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">h ttp://forums.matronics.comhref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution"> http://www.matronics.com/c http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhttp://forums.matronics. comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Well, I did it... Cut out that compression fracture
From: "Mark Roberts" <mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com>
Date: Apr 27, 2013
It wasn't as bad as I thought it would be to cut it out. The little cutting tool I have did a nice job. The chisels did the rest, and then the cutter helped "sand" down the epoxy to the wood. I am using West systems epoxy, and it works very well. Mixed in with some cab-o-sil and it makes a strong, gap filling bond. Next step: cut a new member and glue it in... Upon inspection of the piece when removed, the compression fracture wasn't all the way through the whole width of the strut, but still, in the back of your mind, it was always gonna be there. This repair is so simple it was a no brainier. Thanks again for the advice! Here's some pics of the process. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399520#399520 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/image_195.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/image_679.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/image_194.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/image_310.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/image_126.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/image_178.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: 40.5 HOURS!!!
Date: Apr 28, 2013
Well, just logged my flight from yesterday and the count comes to 40 hrs 30 minutes!!! What verbiage should I use in the logbook to release her from the test phase? Douwe ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Subject: 40.5 HOURS!!!
Date: Apr 28, 2013
Congratulations, Douwe! Attached is an image of a sticker my inspector provided me upon completion of Phase 1. Gary Boothe NX308MB From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Douwe Blumberg Sent: Sunday, April 28, 2013 7:41 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: 40.5 HOURS!!! Well, just logged my flight from yesterday and the count comes to 40 hrs 30 minutes!!! What verbiage should I use in the logbook to release her from the test phase? Douwe ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "skipgadd(at)earthlink.net" <skipgadd(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: 40.5 HOURS!!!
Date: Apr 28, 2013
Douwe, Congratulations! The exact verbiage should be in your Operating Limitations. Mine is almost the same as Garys. Skip ----- Original Message ----- From: Douwe Blumberg Sent: 4/28/2013 10:37:24 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: 40.5 HOURS!!! Well, just logged my flight from yesterday and the count comes to 40 hrs 30 minutes!!! What verbiage should I use in the logbook to release her from the test phase? Douwe ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 28, 2013
From: Jim Boyer <boyerjrb(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: A Pietenpol named Mr. Sam
Glad to hear it Dick; hope to see you at Bordhead. Jim ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ANNCARLEK(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 28, 2013
Subject: Re: Westcoast Piet Meeting @Frazer Lake Airpark
We made our reservations at Hollister for May 30,June 1, so I'm counting on someone else to show up! I'm ready to cover the wings, will probably have this done before the meeting. Otherwise the tail feathers are done, as well as the control system.. Carl and Ann Lekven ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Well, I did it... Cut out that compression fracture
From: "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Apr 28, 2013
Nicely done. In the end, you find you fret way longer than the actual process takes. Nice documentation as well, not a lot of this sort of stuff documented, wish I had documented my repairs. Lastly, nice job (again) for even finding it! Would be pretty easy to miss. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399546#399546 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Well, I did it... Cut out that compression fracture
From: "Mark Roberts" <mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com>
Date: Apr 28, 2013
Thanks Tools! I might not have tried the repair if it wasn't for the group encouragement. I realized it was not that tough once I knew it had to be repaired. Even if it was minor, it would have been MAJOR in my mind during any appreciable turbulence! Will post repaired spot when done. Thanks again for the help and encouragement... Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399549#399549 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Well, I did it... Cut out that compression fracture
From: "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Apr 28, 2013
Do you think maybe it was easier to see the fracture after finish was applied? Kind of like using dye penetrant to find cracks in engine components? Have any suspicions as to the cause of the fracture? Wind shake? Never thought to go looking for cracks AFTER building, this may indicate that may be a really good idea, especially those of us not using "certified" lumber. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399550#399550 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: V Groah <vgroah(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Westcoast Piet Meeting @Frazer Lake Airpark
Date: Apr 28, 2013
Great!!!! hope to see you there. if the weather is good we should have se veral completed Pietenpols there as well as a great group of builders in va rious stages of completion. We are in our fifth year and to meet is starti ng to really come together. A great group of guys and gals. Welcome to th e group. Vic NX414MV From: ANNCARLEK(at)aol.com Date: Sun=2C 28 Apr 2013 20:24:21 -0400 Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Westcoast Piet Meeting @Frazer Lake Airpark We made our reservations at Hollister for May 30=2CJune 1=2C so I'm countin g on someone else to show up! I'm ready to cover the wings=2C will probably have this done before the meeting. Otherwise the tail feathers are done=2C as well as the control system.. Carl and Ann Lekven ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Well, I did it... Cut out that compression fracture
From: "Mark Roberts" <mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com>
Date: Apr 28, 2013
I did see the cracks in the raw lumber when I brought it home. I worked at a specialty lumber yard for year with a friend of mine. His dad owned the shop, and he stocked raw, air dried Sitka and sold it by the board foot for WAAAY less than ACS. Youjust have to saw it and plane it to size. So, I saw the fracture, but being lazy, I didn't want to have to cut a new strip and plane it down, so I tried to get the laaaasssst little bit out of the board I had to size, and I used the end of the piece I cut, but didn't see the one side that was damaged. I thought I had cut the piece off that had the fracture. I am sure there are no other spots, because I remember that board, and when and where I was when using that last piece. All was inspected, but when I grabbed that one, I knew I was close to the fracture, but some how I missed that side. The rest of the board used didn't have the cracks on it. I know, it sounds like I coud have missed something else if I missed this one spot, but I know the boards I used were clean. I was just trying to push my luck, and should have known better. I'm not in a race. But I am eager to fly! :o) It was easier to see when the varnish was applied. Thanks again! Mark Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399552#399552 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Westcoast Piet Meeting @Frazer Lake Airpark
From: "Mark Roberts" <mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com>
Date: Apr 28, 2013
I can't wait! This is one of the best weekends of the year for me. Mark and Jody Roberts Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399553#399553 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 29, 2013
From: Jim Boyer <boyerjrb(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Westcoast Piet Meeting @Frazer Lake Airpark
Hi Carl and Ann, Where are located in California? Building a Piet myself here in Santa Rosa and have the fuselage and tail surfaces covered and primed. Working on the wings now. See you at Frazier Lake. Cheers, Jim ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 28, 2013
From: Michael Groah <dskogrover(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Westcoast Piet Meeting @Frazer Lake Airpark
Carl, =0A=0A=0AI'm looking forward to the event too and I'm glad to hear yo u are making good progress on your project ( we need to see pictures! ).- I have over forty people that have responded saying they are coming which includes nine Pietenpols attending.- Of course the numbers will change so me as people's plans and commitments change.- In any case we will have a good turnout.- Even the year it was really stormy we had a good turn out of builders that drove in.- It's a fun day!=0A=0A=0AMike Groah=0A=0A=0A =0A________________________________=0A From: "ANNCARLEK(at)aol.com" <ANNCARLEK (at)aol.com>=0ATo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com =0ASent: Sunday, April 28, 201 3 5:24 PM=0ASubject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Westcoast Piet Meeting @Frazer Lak e Airpark=0A =0A=0A=0AWe made our reservations at Hollister for May 30,June 1, so I'm counting on =0Asomeone else to show up! I'm ready to cover the w ings, will probably have this =0Adone before the meeting. Otherwise the tai l feathers are done, as well as the =0Acontrol system..- Carl and Ann Lek ================ ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Well, I did it... Cut out that compression fracture
From: "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Apr 28, 2013
Ok, this leads to the next question, are those fractures "wind shake" fractures? I've read about them with respect to grading sitka, but have never seen them in all the other species of wood I've worked. If so, are they common, generally easy to see... just trying to learn a little more. How it wound up there makes sense and could easily do that myself. Just glad to know you generally felt confident about knowing where these fractures are as you dimension the wood. Thanks for the heads up on all of this! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399557#399557 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: determining Vne
From: "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Apr 28, 2013
(I changed the subject line from "A Pietenpol named Mr. Sam")- regarding the redline on your airspeed indicator, and the Vne posted in the operating limitations for your airplane, here's something I posted back in January of 2008: I believe that one of the methods of determining Vne is that it is set at 90% of dive speed, Vd, and that Vd is required to be 1.4 times design cruise speed for certification in the normal category. Let's take an example... my airplane. I think I redlined my airspeed indicator at 95MPH (based on somebody else's info), which would mean it should have been designed for Vd of 105MPH but I have no idea if it was. It also means that cruise speed should be about 75MPH and that's pretty close to where I cruise, if a little high. But here's better information: the Pietenpol family website shows the original Piet "high speed" as 90MPH. That would hint at a designer's approved Vd of 100MPH and a cruise of 71MPH, which sounds more like reality for this airplane. I have heard that in order to flight-test to determine Vne, you'd have to fly at Vd for three minutes with no damage or flutter, then redline your Vne at 90% of the tested Vd. I'm not sure I'd want to hold 41CC at 105MPH for three minutes. -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399560#399560 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Garmin 1000 video
From: "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Apr 28, 2013
Tom; thanks for the link. However, it appears that this workshop is based on the Dynon and I'm interested in the Garmin. Hard enough to learn one system, let alone two ;o) -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399561#399561 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Well, I did it... Cut out that compression fracture
From: "Mark Roberts" <mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com>
Date: Apr 28, 2013
This looked more like a fracture that came from hitting something after the lumber was cut. It definitely shattered the first few rings of the wood and could easily be seen in the wood. I know other fractures are hairline fractures that run across grain. I saw none of those in the wood I cut. Interesting to look and grade your own wood. Some might be scared to do it, but if you read the books/advisories on how to grade wood, it isn't rocket science. The boards I carved up for this were actually vertical grain, spar grade spruce. But, that's all he had on hand, and I was eager to start cutting and making little sticks, so I bought some really sweet wood for the fuse! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399579#399579 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: determining Vne
From: "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Apr 28, 2013
By the way, I'll save Jack Phillips from going back and re-posting his followup to my post from 2008. Never one to mince words, but always someone who speaks from sound experience, he wrote- "I've never had my Pietenpol faster than about 90, and it was really 'not happy' at that speed, and let me know it. As usual, Bernard knew what he was doing." -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399580#399580 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Westcoast Piet Meeting @Frazer Lake Airpark
From: "Mark Roberts" <mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com>
Date: Apr 28, 2013
Wow Mike!! 9 piets this year?? The most we've had in the past has been 3, right? What a fun day this year will be. I need to stock up on my film this year. No, wait. That's SO last century. I think I can get a few thousand pics on my memory cards these days... Mark Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399583#399583 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Clif Dawson" <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Well, I did it... Cut out that compression fracture
Date: Apr 29, 2013
Here's a good explanation of ring and wind shake; http://www.woodcentral.com/shots/shot137.shtml The following isn't shake but very important non the less. This is one you have to watch out for that was discovered through the failure of new wood ladders many years ago. What happens is that a tree is felled and lands across another trunk. This causes the grain to "shift" sideways just a small bit, sometimes only detectable under magnification. This is enough to seriously impair the integrity of the grain. In a spar this will be catastophic. Clif There is a crack in everything God has made. William Blake > > Ok, this leads to the next question, are those fractures "wind shake" > fractures? I've read about them with respect to grading sitka, but have > never seen them in all the other species of wood I've worked. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Well, I did it... Cut out that compression fracture
From: "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Apr 29, 2013
Awesome, thanks for the link. That definitely helps. All the spruce I have worked seems SO regular that irregularities I assumed would be easier to see than in some of the low grade stuff I work (for furniture, nothing structural). But really haven't found any links with many pictures. I've been working a lot of logs lately, so will start looking for tell tale signs right after they're felled... Thanks again! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399594#399594 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Night Flying in a Piet
From: "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com>
Date: Apr 29, 2013
Hey Baldeagle, Something about that comment just doesn't sound right... Don Emch NX899DE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399598#399598 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Night Flying in a Piet
From: "Fun2av8" <iflyga(at)fun2av8.com>
Date: Apr 29, 2013
Sparks! Yes, you should see them coming out of a Kenner on the Fleet. What a show! I wondering what the O-200 will look like in Mr. Sam.... -------- Jim McWhorter N687MB (New Owner) Culpeper, VA KCJR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399604#399604 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 29, 2013
Subject: Re: A Pietenpol named Mr. Sam
From: DandD Boyd <dndboyd2(at)gmail.com>
Congratulations on the first Mr. Sam flight. You'll be solo soon! On Thu, Apr 25, 2013 at 8:31 PM, Fun2av8 wrote: > > For those of you flying with an O-200 - do these look about right? > > Airspeed Limitations > Never Exceed Speed (Vne).......................100 mph > 75% Power 3000 ft. MSL, 2000 RPM................70 mph > 65% Power 3000 ft. MSL, 1900 RPM................60 mph > 55% Power 3000 ft. MSL, 1800 RPM................55 mph > Rate of Climb at Sea Level, Gross Weight.......400 fpm > > Takeoff Performance > Ground Roll ' Sod................................450 ft > Ground Roll ' Pavement...........................400 ft > Total Distance over 50 ft Obstacle.............1,500 ft > > Landing Performance > Ground Roll......................................400 ft > Distance over 50 ft. Obstacle (estimated........1200 ft > Stall speed, Power Off..........................30 mph > > AirSpeed Limitations > Vne Never Exceed Speed......................90 mph > Vno Maximum Structural Cruising Speed.......70 mph > Va Maneuvering Speed @ 1150 lbs............60 mph > Vr Rotation Speed..........................55 mph > Vs Stall Speed.............................30 mph > Vy Best Rate of Climb......................65 mph > Vx Best Angle of Climb.....................50 mph > Vmpg Best Economical Cruise Speed............70 mph > Vg Maximum Glide Distance ' Power Off......55 mph > Vef Engine Failure after Take Off Speed.....65 mph > > AirSpeed Markings > Green Arc...................................30 - 80 mph > Yellow Arc..................................80 - 100 mph > > -------- > Jim McWhorter > N687MB (New Owner) > Culpeper, VA KCJR > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399400#399400 > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 29, 2013
From: norm <coevst(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Well, I did it... Cut out that compression fracture
Checks are perpendicular to the grain ,shakes are parallel or between the g rain..-- --- On Mon, 4/29/13, Clif Dawson wrote: From: Clif Dawson <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Well, I did it... Cut out that compression fracture Date: Monday, April 29, 2013, 4:16 AM Here's a good explanation of ring and wind shake; http://www.woodcentral.com/shots/shot137.shtml The following isn't shake but very important non the less. This is one you have to watch out for that was discovered through the failure of new wood ladders many years ago. What happens is that a tree is felled and lands across another trunk. This causes the grain to "shift" sideways just a small bit, sometimes only detectable under magnification. This is enough to seriously impair the integrity of the grain. In a spar this will be catastophic. Clif There is a crack in everything God has made. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - ---William Blake > > Ok, this leads to the next question, are those fractures "wind shake" fra ctures?- I've read about them with respect to grading sitka, but have nev er seen them in all the other species of wood I've worked. le, List Admin. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Barry Davis" <bed(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: What oil in a Corvair?
Date: Apr 29, 2013
A couple of my Corvair buddies are experimenting with oil in their Corvair conversions. I am wondering what most of the Pietenpol flyers are using and how often are they doing oil changes? Barry Davis NX973BP ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: What oil in a Corvair?
From: Gary Boothe <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Date: Apr 29, 2013
WW clearly prefers Shell Rotella 10w-50. Sent from my iPhone On Apr 29, 2013, at 9:16 AM, "Barry Davis" wrote: > A couple of my Corvair buddies are experimenting with oil in their Corvair conversions. I am wondering what most of the Pietenpol flyers are using and how often are they doing oil changes? > Barry Davis > NX973BP > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 29, 2013
From: shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: What oil in a Corvair?
That's 15W-50 I believe. - Shad --- On Mon, 4/29/13, Gary Boothe wrote: From: Gary Boothe <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: What oil in a Corvair? Date: Monday, April 29, 2013, 12:57 PM WW clearly prefers Shell Rotella 10w-50. Sent from my iPhone On Apr 29, 2013, at 9:16 AM, "Barry Davis" wrote: A couple of my Corvair buddies are experimenting with oil in their Corvair conversions. I am wondering what most of the Pietenpol flyers are using and how often are they doing oil changes? Barry Davis NX973BP 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 29, 2013
Subject: Re: What oil in a Corvair?
From: Ken Bickers <bickers.ken(at)gmail.com>
>From WW's Sunday Papers Volume II - Oil Systems ( http://www.flycorvair.com/hangar1007.html): *"Oil Recommendations* The only oil we use in engines today is Shell Rotella T 15W40. It's readily available and has the highest temp tolerance of any mineral based oil I know. We use this for break in and normal operation. As an option for extreme duty or turbo motors, Amsoil synthetic 10W30 oil is my choice. Both of these are 100% compatible with 100ll fuel." On Mon, Apr 29, 2013 at 2:15 PM, shad bell wrote: > That's 15W-50 I believe. > > Shad > > --- On *Mon, 4/29/13, Gary Boothe * wrote: > > > From: Gary Boothe <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: What oil in a Corvair? > To: "pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com" > Date: Monday, April 29, 2013, 12:57 PM > > WW clearly prefers Shell Rotella 10w-50. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Apr 29, 2013, at 9:16 AM, "Barry Davis" http://us.mc1612.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=bed@mindspring.com>> > wrote: > > A couple of my Corvair buddies are experimenting with oil in their > Corvair conversions. I am wondering what most of the Pietenpol flyers are > using and how often are they doing oil changes? > > Barry Davis > > NX973BP > > * > > * > > * > > 3D============================================ > npol-List > 3D============================================ > 3D============================================ > > > 3D============================================ > * > > * > > * > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "C N Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net>
Subject: Re: What oil in a Corvair?
Date: Apr 29, 2013
WW also recomends 40-to-50 hour intervals on oil changes after the breakin is completed. C ----- Original Message ----- From: shad bell To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, April 29, 2013 4:15 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: What oil in a Corvair? That's 15W-50 I believe. Shad --- On Mon, 4/29/13, Gary Boothe wrote: From: Gary Boothe <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: What oil in a Corvair? To: "pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com" Date: Monday, April 29, 2013, 12:57 PM WW clearly prefers Shell Rotella 10w-50. Sent from my iPhone On Apr 29, 2013, at 9:16 AM, "Barry Davis" wrote: A couple of my Corvair buddies are experimenting with oil in their Corvair conversions. I am wondering what most of the Pietenpol flyers are using and how often are they doing oil changes? Barry Davis NX973BP 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D npol-List 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D > 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Piet Props
From: "M. Zeke Zechini" <marcus.zechini(at)gmail.com>
Date: Apr 29, 2013
I want to solicit some advice... I bought a GN-1 with a C-85-12 back in Sept. It is swinging a metal McCauley 74x41 prop which was on original A65 (all my W&B data, etc. based on A65 with this prop). I flew a lot this past weekend. I climb with gusto, but burn a lot of fuel at cruise. I can spin up to 2500 and do 80 knots. Does that sound right? BTW, my wing is clipped Cub, so, should get a little more speed, maybe? Should I re-pitch metal? Try a good wood prop? I worry about W&B if I get wood prop. I boought a Piet, so speed not the goal. Fuel burn my aim....decrease it. Thanks, Scott L. for previous reply. You have similar craft, so value your input. -Zeke Sent from my iPad ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Simplicity wins... again...
From: "ldmill" <lorin.miller(at)emerson.com>
Date: Apr 29, 2013
An absolutely beautiful evening this evening, 5 mph winds, 75 degrees and almost no clouds. Opportunity was knocking, so I called the wife and warned her not to expect me home before, ...well, late. I was excited to take the newly completed/go-fast/shiny/full of electronic gadgets - Sonex/Waiex for a flight (14 hours on it and counting). Got to the airport- only to find that I'd left my master and EFIS on and the battery was dead. Sigh... like, not even able to take a charge dead. Roll over and bury it dead - as my 12 year old says... So, I was standing there cussing myself because I really wanted to fly - only to realize that I had a second airplane in the hanger that dead batteries are just never an issue with. The old trusty Aircamper was sitting there, just waiting to spread her wings and show up the new young pup. I pulled out "Part-a-Piet", primed her, flipped the prop and the old A-75 started on the first blade, putt-putting happily away- dependable as aways. I put my leather helmet on, and we taxied out to runway 18 in Marshalltown, full throttle (2500 rpm), and climbed out at about 400 ft per minute. Wow - what a difference. I've gotten used to the Jab3300 in the Waiex screaming at 3300 rpm, climbing out at 1500+ ft/min. ANR headsets are an absolute requirement. It took me about 10 minutes of chaffing at the 70mph cruise speed - but then I started to relax and enjoy it, dropping down to about 500ft AGL. After the second farmer waived at me - I started checking out the freshly tilled fields and spent more time looking at the scenary and ignored the guages. I remembered why I love this type of flying, the absolute simplicity and freedom. It was the best hour long flight that I've had in a very, very long time. Keep building boys! You'll never regret your Piet, even if you pick up a new shiny toy - the old one is still a joy to fly. Mine now has 901 hours and is 27 years old. Lorin Miller GN-1 N30PP Waiex N81YX Colo, Iowa Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399640#399640 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Piet Props
From: "ldmill" <lorin.miller(at)emerson.com>
Date: Apr 29, 2013
Marcus, I've got a GN-1 with an A-75 in it. It's got a metal McCauley 74x39 on it. WOT is 2500rpm at around 85mph indicated. Climb is pretty good. I typically cruise at about 2250 rpm, burn at that rate is around 4.5 - 5 gallon per hour, speed around 75mph. Your cruise of 80 kts (92mph) seams a little fast to me - but I guess it is possible. I'm not really comfortable in my plane at 90+mph though, it buffets me around too much. Lorin -------- Lorin Miller Waiex N81YX GN-1 N30PP Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399641#399641 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 29, 2013
Subject: Re: Simplicity wins... again...
From: Ken Bickers <bickers.ken(at)gmail.com>
Great story, Lorin. Brought back memories of the years I flew hot air balloons in southern Indiana. The pedestrian pace, the aromas from the freshly planted farm fields, the people looking up, smiling, and waving -- low and slow is good for the soul. My best, Ken On Mon, Apr 29, 2013 at 8:53 PM, ldmill wrote: > > An absolutely beautiful evening this evening, 5 mph winds, 75 degrees and > almost no clouds. Opportunity was knocking, so I called the wife and > warned her not to expect me home before, ...well, late. I was excited to > take the newly completed/go-fast/shiny/full of electronic gadgets - > Sonex/Waiex for a flight (14 hours on it and counting). Got to the > airport- only to find that I'd left my master and EFIS on and the battery > was dead. Sigh... like, not even able to take a charge dead. Roll over and > bury it dead - as my 12 year old says... > So, I was standing there cussing myself because I really wanted to fly - > only to realize that I had a second airplane in the hanger that dead > batteries are just never an issue with. The old trusty Aircamper was > sitting there, just waiting to spread her wings and show up the new young > pup. > I pulled out "Part-a-Piet", primed her, flipped the prop and the old A-75 > started on the first blade, putt-putting happily away- dependable as aways. > I put my leather helmet on, and we taxied out to runway 18 in > Marshalltown, full throttle (2500 rpm), and climbed out at about 400 ft per > minute. Wow - what a difference. I've gotten used to the Jab3300 in the > Waiex screaming at 3300 rpm, climbing out at 1500+ ft/min. ANR headsets are > an absolute requirement. > It took me about 10 minutes of chaffing at the 70mph cruise speed - but > then I started to relax and enjoy it, dropping down to about 500ft AGL. > After the second farmer waived at me - I started checking out the freshly > tilled fields and spent more time looking at the scenary and ignored the > guages. I remembered why I love this type of flying, the absolute > simplicity and freedom. It was the best hour long flight that I've had in a > very, very long time. > > Keep building boys! You'll never regret your Piet, even if you pick up a > new shiny toy - the old one is still a joy to fly. Mine now has 901 hours > and is 27 years old. > > Lorin Miller > GN-1 N30PP > Waiex N81YX > Colo, Iowa > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399640#399640 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Piet Props
From: "M. Zeke Zechini" <marcus.zechini(at)gmail.com>
Date: Apr 30, 2013
Thanks, Lorin. I need this kind of info. I am new to Piets! Every one a little different. I want to be sure ofwhat I am doing. Getting scales soon. Will try a couple other props, I think. Sent from my iPad On Apr 29, 2013, at 11:02 PM, "ldmill" wrote: > > Marcus, > I've got a GN-1 with an A-75 in it. It's got a metal McCauley 74x39 on it. WOT is 2500rpm at around 85mph indicated. Climb is pretty good. I typically cruise at about 2250 rpm, burn at that rate is around 4.5 - 5 gallon per hour, speed around 75mph. > > Your cruise of 80 kts (92mph) seams a little fast to me - but I guess it is possible. I'm not really comfortable in my plane at 90+mph though, it buffets me around too much. > Lorin > > -------- > Lorin Miller > Waiex N81YX > GN-1 N30PP > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399641#399641 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Piet Props
From: "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org>
Date: Apr 30, 2013
Marcus, Your numbers are very close to mine. I can pull 2550 at WOT. My airspeed indicates 93 MPH At 3000 MSL. With the C-85 I can get the fuel burn down to 5 GPH if I run the engine between 2200 and 2275 While flying solo. I can't do that with two people on board. I need to carry about 2350 or more with a 150lb passenger. Mt fuel burn is close to 6 GPH at gross weight. You may be propped very close to what you need. -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399657#399657 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 30, 2013
Subject: Re: Piet Props
From: Marcus Zechini <marcus.zechini(at)gmail.com>
Thanks, Scott. The more I think about it, the more I believe it. Bugged me that the Cub was keeping up,...but...I AM part Cub. I may have othe fuel burn issue, but throttling back may be my answer.....will need to do more testing! On it! On Apr 30, 2013 9:31 AM, "AircamperN11MS" wrote: > Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org> > > Marcus, > > Your numbers are very close to mine. I can pull 2550 at WOT. My airspeed > indicates 93 MPH At 3000 MSL. With the C-85 I can get the fuel burn down > to 5 GPH if I run the engine between 2200 and 2275 While flying solo. I > can't do that with two people on board. I need to carry about 2350 or more > with a 150lb passenger. Mt fuel burn is close to 6 GPH at gross weight. > > You may be propped very close to what you need. > > -------- > Scott Liefeld > Flying N11MS since March 1972 > Steel Tube > C-85-12 > Wire Wheels > Brodhead in 1996 > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399657#399657 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: axle bending
From: "CraigAho" <Soar561(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Apr 30, 2013
I was wondering if one could take a piece of angle steel and insert down the middle of the tube for bending resistance or how about welding the piece on the bottom outside of an Axel you are already using? Also can anyone advise on the anti rotation pin and receiving tube. the thickness of the bracket attached to the wood bottom piece is about 16 guage so should the receiver tube be the same wall thickness? Thanks for the feedback. Craig Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399663#399663 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Early spring flight
From: Douwe Blumberg <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Date: Apr 30, 2013
To celebrate the end of phase I testing, I went for an early morning flight and watched the ground fog burn off. Absolutely gorgeous! Put simple tape on the prop and it sounded quieter until the ends flew off. It was old. Am getting fresh from ace.

________________________________________________________________________________
From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 30, 2013
Subject: Update from: Corky's Rib Building
Pieters, Progress is the word. Jig completed. This is the original design by Mr Pietenpol. Those interested in a set of ribs will have to inform me whether a one piece wing or 3 piece. Choice of 1/2X1/4 or 3/8X1/4 cap strip. The material will be premium selected Douglas Fir from Washington state. Kiln dried, tight vertical grains. A 3/8 width will be much stronger than a 1/2 spruce and near the same weight. All will be 3/8X1/4 unless requested otherwise. T-88 glue used. Also, decide whether you are using 1in or 3/4in spars. If interested parties will respond to this letter I would appreciate it so I might make my plans. Going in Tuesday so they can whittle on my heart a bit. If you don't hear from me by the 8th or 9th then you best start looking for another rib company Corky Chief honcho ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Axle bending
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 30, 2013
Never got a response to this. Any thoughts or opinions at all? Is a slight bending of the straight axle inherently bad? I can't remember w hich thickness I used, but after all the welding I had it magnafluxed. And then last year I did some additional welding of those bungee "dams" that I added. After that I noticed the wheels are canted a bit inward, caused by t he warping from the heat. This did not seem to affect performance at all wi th all those rides I gave at Brodhead last year. Any thoughts? Dan Helsper Puryear, TN ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <jack(at)bedfordlandings.com>
Subject: Re: axle bending
Date: Apr 30, 2013
I wish you had asked this question yesterday. I changed my bungees yesterday as part of my annual Condition Inspection and could have easily measured the guide pins and guide tubes. Not so easy with the bungees in place. As I recall, I made the guide tubes out of .045" wall tubing, welded to .090" sheet V-fitting. There is substantial slop between the tubes and the guide pins to allow for axle motion. It works well enough and I've never had the axle bind in the guide tubes. Jack Phillips NX899JP Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of CraigAho Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 11:04 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: axle bending I was wondering if one could take a piece of angle steel and insert down the middle of the tube for bending resistance or how about welding the piece on the bottom outside of an Axel you are already using? Also can anyone advise on the anti rotation pin and receiving tube. the thickness of the bracket attached to the wood bottom piece is about 16 guage so should the receiver tube be the same wall thickness? Thanks for the feedback. Craig Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399663#399663 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <jack(at)bedfordlandings.com>
Subject: Axle bending
Date: Apr 30, 2013
No Jack Phillips NX899JP Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of helspersew(at)aol.com Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 12:08 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Axle bending Never got a response to this. Any thoughts or opinions at all? Is a slight bending of the straight axle inherently bad? I can't remember which thickness I used, but after all the welding I had it magnafluxed. And then last year I did some additional welding of those bungee "dams" that I added. After that I noticed the wheels are canted a bit inward, caused by the warping from the heat. This did not seem to affect performance at all with all those rides I gave at Brodhead last year. Any thoughts? Dan Helsper Puryear, TN ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Update from: Corky's Rib Building
From: "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Apr 30, 2013
Corky, Best wishes on the "whittlin'", and I fully expect to hear more about the business long past the 8th or 9th. Keep us posted! -------- Semper Fi, Terry Hand Athens, GA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399678#399678 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: axle bending
From: "Chris Rusch" <rmdinfo(at)rmdbenders.com>
Date: Apr 30, 2013
I made my anti rotation tubes from 3/4 x .120 wall 4130, but i drilled THRU the complete axle and welded in the tube top and bottom. Is that how you did yours? completely thru or just welded to the outside? jack(at)bedfordlandings.c wrote: > I wish you had asked this question yesterday. I changed my bungees > yesterday as part of my annual Condition Inspection and could have easily > measured the guide pins and guide tubes. Not so easy with the bungees in > place. > > As I recall, I made the guide tubes out of .045" wall tubing, welded to > .090" sheet V-fitting. There is substantial slop between the tubes and the > guide pins to allow for axle motion. It works well enough and I've never > had the axle bind in the guide tubes. > > Jack Phillips > NX899JP > Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia > > -- -------- NX321LR Fully Assembled Tail assembly and ailerons covered and painted. Wings covered and primed, one painted Mitsubishi Powered Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399694#399694 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Craig Aho <soar561(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: axle bending
Date: Apr 30, 2013
I was noticing on my wood gear plan from Don Pietenpol and 1932 FGM that th e axel is 12 guage wich is .109 wall so .120 is already larger. On my plan from Don he included a stickum note saying "Don't use this" I guess he was not a fan of the wood gear. I spent the morning trying to find out if I co uld straighten out my old Axel so I could use my old brake setup etc. but i t looks like it is not at all practicle so I will put my order in for the n ew axel. My Vee fittings are the 16 guage per the plan which is kind of (1/ 16") thin. I plan to use the vertical Pin setup like so many are now using and I first saw on Mike Cuys ship. Thanks for the feedback on the pins etc. I was thinking that the receiver tube welded to the V fitting would only b e as strong as the thickness of that fitting so I hope that the setup will work for me. I like the looks of the system. still deciding on the brakes a llthough my wheels are setup for the 4.5" drums which seemed to work ok. I keep trying to remember what my train of thought was back 20 years ago when I started my first Air Camper because I seem to have so much more to think about with many details I dont think I considered back in the past. I just followed the plan and 2 yrs later I was completed and ended up with a nice Piet. I hope this one turns out even better. Craig > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: axle bending > From: rmdinfo(at)rmdbenders.com > Date: Tue=2C 30 Apr 2013 12:05:43 -0700 > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > om> > > I made my anti rotation tubes from 3/4 x .120 wall 4130=2C but i drilled THRU the complete axle and welded in the tube top and bottom. Is that how y ou did yours? completely thru or just welded to the outside? > > > > > > jack(at)bedfordlandings.c wrote: > > I wish you had asked this question yesterday. I changed my bungees > > yesterday as part of my annual Condition Inspection and could have eas ily > > measured the guide pins and guide tubes. Not so easy with the bungees in > > place. > > > > As I recall=2C I made the guide tubes out of .045" wall tubing=2C welde d to > > .090" sheet V-fitting. There is substantial slop between the tubes and the > > guide pins to allow for axle motion. It works well enough and I've nev er > > had the axle bind in the guide tubes. > > > > Jack Phillips > > NX899JP > > Smith Mountain Lake=2C Virginia > > > > -- > > > -------- > NX321LR > Fully Assembled > Tail assembly and ailerons covered and painted. > Wings covered and primed=2C one painted > Mitsubishi Powered > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399694#399694 > > > > > > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Early spring flight
From: "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com>
Date: Apr 30, 2013
Douwe, There is nothing quite like early morning flying above low laying fog. It's just indescribable and makes ya wonder why you're so fortunate to be the one up there taking it all in. Don Emch NX899DE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399702#399702 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <jack(at)bedfordlandings.com>
Subject: Re: axle bending
Date: Apr 30, 2013
I drilled completely through and passed the tube through and welded top and bottom Jack Phillips NX899JP Smith Mountain lake, Virginia -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris Rusch Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 3:06 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: axle bending I made my anti rotation tubes from 3/4 x .120 wall 4130, but i drilled THRU the complete axle and welded in the tube top and bottom. Is that how you did yours? completely thru or just welded to the outside? jack(at)bedfordlandings.c wrote: > I wish you had asked this question yesterday. I changed my bungees > yesterday as part of my annual Condition Inspection and could have easily > measured the guide pins and guide tubes. Not so easy with the bungees in > place. > > As I recall, I made the guide tubes out of .045" wall tubing, welded to > .090" sheet V-fitting. There is substantial slop between the tubes and the > guide pins to allow for axle motion. It works well enough and I've never > had the axle bind in the guide tubes. > > Jack Phillips > NX899JP > Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia > > -- -------- NX321LR Fully Assembled Tail assembly and ailerons covered and painted. Wings covered and primed, one painted Mitsubishi Powered Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399694#399694 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 30, 2013
From: Jim Boyer <boyerjrb(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Wing Strut Fittings on Spars
I have a question for those who have flying Piets or at least completed wings for Piets. I am laying out my wing spars and am using the new lift strut fittings shown on the supplemental plans. In the two pictures you can see how much of the fitting hangs over the lower edge of the spar when laying on the spar at approximately a 45 degree angle (which is to the new fitting drawing). It is about 3 1/4 inches overhang. Have I missed something or is that okay? I will be using the Carlson aluminium lift struts and to me it looks like an excessive overhang. How much overhang on the lower edge of the spar are your lift strut fittings? Thanks, Jim B. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: axle bending
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 30, 2013
Me too. Dan Helsper Puryear, TN -----Original Message----- From: Jack Phillips <jack(at)bedfordlandings.com> Sent: Tue, Apr 30, 2013 4:35 pm Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: axle bending .com> I drilled completely through and passed the tube through and welded top and bottom Jack Phillips NX899JP Smith Mountain lake, Virginia -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris Rusch Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 3:06 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: axle bending > I made my anti rotation tubes from 3/4 x .120 wall 4130, but i drilled THRU the complete axle and welded in the tube top and bottom. Is that how you di d yours? completely thru or just welded to the outside? jack(at)bedfordlandings.c wrote: > I wish you had asked this question yesterday. I changed my bungees > yesterday as part of my annual Condition Inspection and could have easil y > measured the guide pins and guide tubes. Not so easy with the bungees in > place. > > As I recall, I made the guide tubes out of .045" wall tubing, welded to > .090" sheet V-fitting. There is substantial slop between the tubes and the > guide pins to allow for axle motion. It works well enough and I've never > had the axle bind in the guide tubes. > > Jack Phillips > NX899JP > Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia > > -- -------- NX321LR Fully Assembled Tail assembly and ailerons covered and painted. Wings covered and primed, one painted Mitsubishi Powered Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399694#399694 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: early spring flight
Date: Apr 30, 2013
First off, sorry about my earlier post. I didn't put "simple tape" on my prop. I put "DIMPLE TAPE" on my prop. Secondly, for those interested, here's a video of this morning's flight. It was so smooth she felt like she was on rails! Really a pretty flight with the ground fog and the dark bluegrass green coming out. CREATION ROCKS!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?vUVGVbqn2c Douwe ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ray Krause <raykrause(at)frontiernet.net>
Subject: Re: Wing Strut Fittings on Spars
Date: Apr 30, 2013
Jim, Don't for get you have to clear the rib cap strip and covering. Then you hav e to allow for free movement of the strut bracket. The important measurement is the distance from the center of the hole vertically to where the bracket will attach, you will need bout an inch, I think. I had to re-make mine a fter the wing was done. Ray Krause Sent from my iPad On Apr 30, 2013, at 3:16 PM, Jim Boyer wrote: > > I have a question for those who have flying Piets or at least completed wi ngs for Piets. > > > > I am laying out my wing spars and am using the new lift strut fittings sho wn on the supplemental plans. In the two pictures you can see how much of th e fitting hangs over the lower edge of the spar when laying on the spar at a pproximately a 45 degree angle (which is to the new fitting drawing). It is a bout 3 1/4 inches overhang. > > > > Have I missed something or is that okay? I will be using the Carlson alumi nium lift struts and to me it looks like an excessive overhang. > > > > How much overhang on the lower edge of the spar are your lift strut fittin gs? > > Thanks, > > Jim B. > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Quinn" <quinnj(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Wooden strut metal fittings - help
Date: Apr 30, 2013
I've made a mock-up of the wooden struts for my Piet, made the lower fittings, inside and out, according to the plans. They don't come close to fitting properly. I then made some fottings out of aluminum foil to re-fit things. That works except I had to move the angles that go up the struts inward a good 1 1/2". that seems like way too much. Does anyone have good drawings or dimensions for these fittings? Any help would be greatly appreciated!!! Jim Quinn ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 30, 2013
From: gboothe5(at)comcast.net
Subject: Re: Wing Strut Fittings on Spars
I think the consensus is that more (more than the original plans) is better. Go with what you have! Gary ----- Original Message ----- From: "Boyer, Jim" <boyerjrb(at)comcast.net> Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 3:16:46 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wing Strut Fittings on Spars I have a question for those who have flying Piets or at least completed wings for Piets. I am laying out my wing spars and am using the new lift strut fittings shown on the supplemental plans. In the two pictures you can see how much of the fitting hangs over the lower edge of the spar when laying on the spar at approximately a 45 degree angle (which is to the new fitting drawing). It is about 3 1/4 inches overhang. Have I missed something or is that okay? I will be using the Carlson aluminium lift struts and to me it looks like an excessive overhang. How much overhang on the lower edge of the spar are your lift strut fittings? Thanks, Jim B. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Wooden strut metal fittings - help
From: "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca>
Date: Apr 30, 2013
Jim, I'm having a hard time figuring out what parts you're talking about. When you say wooden struts, are you referring to the landing gear? What plans are you working from? Maybe if you snapped a couple of photos to illustrate your problems, and posted them, it might make it easier to understand. Bill C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399718#399718 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Wing Strut Fittings on Spars
From: "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Apr 30, 2013
The issue that comes into play is whether you can get the pin in from the top, which is the general preference as it cannot fall out as easily. I have a few spots where it HAS to go in from the bottom for clearance reasons. A little longer is better. For all flying purposes, these are in tension, so the little longer cantilever isn't a big deal. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399719#399719 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Quinn" <quinnj(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Wooden strut metal fittings - help
Date: Apr 30, 2013
Hi Bill, Thanks and yes, the landing gear. Working on the pics, Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca> Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 7:23 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wooden strut metal fittings - help > > > Jim, > I'm having a hard time figuring out what parts you're talking about. When > you say wooden struts, are you referring to the landing gear? What plans > are you working from? Maybe if you snapped a couple of photos to > illustrate your problems, and posted them, it might make it easier to > understand. > Bill C. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399718#399718 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Piet Props
From: "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Apr 30, 2013
Marcus; One way you could set sort of a benchmark is to just go out for an hour with a full tank, climb to about 1500-2000', and set power to cruise at about 70 MPH indicated. Fly around and have fun at that cruise setting and altitude more or less, and an hour later, top off the tank again and see how much you burned. I'm guessing it will be 4.5 to a max of 5 gallons. 41CC started life with a metal prop on the A65. I'll have to dig out the logs to see what the prop was. It's never had a metal prop since I've owned it, though. -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399723#399723 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Early spring flight
From: "TriScout" <apfelcyber(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Apr 30, 2013
Hi Douwe, Nice flight. Where does one go for dimple tape?.. Ace Hardware? I saw an article in an old Piet bulleting a yr or two ago. ..wouldn't mind trying it. Thx Larry N2308C Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399724#399724 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Piet Props
From: "M. Zeke Zechini" <marcus.zechini(at)gmail.com>
Date: Apr 30, 2013
Oscar, I Like the plan. I should have watched what I was doing last Sat., but had too much fun flying! Right now, after checking McCauley application chart, I think I want to re- pitch my prop to get just a little more bite... not a lot. I do like wood, though. Sent from my iPad On Apr 30, 2013, at 8:56 PM, "taildrags" wrote: > > Marcus; > > One way you could set sort of a benchmark is to just go out for an hour with a full tank, climb to about 1500-2000', and set power to cruise at about 70 MPH indicated. Fly around and have fun at that cruise setting and altitude more or less, and an hour later, top off the tank again and see how much you burned. I'm guessing it will be 4.5 to a max of 5 gallons. > > 41CC started life with a metal prop on the A65. I'll have to dig out the logs to see what the prop was. It's never had a metal prop since I've owned it, though. > > -------- > Oscar Zuniga > Medford, OR > Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" > A75 power > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399723#399723 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Quinn" <quinnj(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Emailing: piet fittings
Date: Apr 30, 2013
Hi Bill, Here's a pic. Cut pieces on the bottom, inside and outside fittings for the wooden landing gear. My foil cut-outs are on top. I'm using plans purchased from the Pietenpol family, a one page supplement. Thanks, Jim The message is ready to be sent with the following file or link attachments: piet fittings ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Wing Strut Fittings on Spars
From: "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca>
Date: Apr 30, 2013
Jim, Something doesn't look right. The bottom bolt hole looks to be too close to the edge of the spar. I just drew up the lift strut bracket, with the dimensions shown in the supplemental plans, using CAD, and superimposed it on a 4 3/4" spar, using whatever angle the dimensions resulted in. Turns out to be about 39. I printed the drawing with a scale of 1:1, and scanned it. As you can see, it looks a little different from yours. I wonder if your miter angle at the top of the bracket is off. You should be able to print a full scale copy of the drawing on 8 1/2" x 11" paper, to compare. Bill C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399726#399726 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/lift_strut_fitting_165.pdf ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Gary Boothe <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Emailing: piet fittings
Date: Apr 30, 2013
Jim, Although my fittings are to the plans, it is my understanding that most buil ders adjust the fittings to fit their gear, especially in consideration of t he gear changes one may make in line with William Wynne's findings on axle p lacement. Gary Boothe NX308MB Sent from my iPhone On Apr 30, 2013, at 6:09 PM, "Jim Quinn" wrote: > Hi Bill, > > Here's a pic. Cut pieces on the bottom, inside and outside fittings for th e wooden landing gear. My foil cut-outs are on top. > > I'm using plans purchased from the Pietenpol family, a one page supplement . > > Thanks, > > Jim > > > The message is ready to be sent with the following file or link attachment s: > piet fittings > ding or receiving certain types of file attachments. Check your e-mail secu > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Emailing: piet fittings
From: "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Apr 30, 2013
Ok, the pictures help tons, now I see what you're talking about. If you were to keep the angles to plans on the bottoms of the struts, it would change the angle at the top by a practically negligible amount... By the way, when I say "to the plans", don't take this too seriously. I assume you made the upper angles "to the plans" as close as you could. If you made them PERFECTLY, the plans themselves could be off enough to cause this, just because a piece of paper 20 x 30" can change a quarter of an inch because of humidity... So, consider this. The gear strut geometry at the bottom is probably more critical, because the spacing between the pieces allows room for the axle. I'd consider making the angles fit your metal pieces, then adjust where they hit the fuselage, in the angle, not where the fittings hit the fuse as they are where they are for strength reasons. Compound angle stuff is VERY difficult. TINY errors (pencil widths, imperfect calibration of machine miter gages, etc...) add up VERY quickly. I make some wooden puzzles that require angles to be cut accurately to the minute... Despite a BUNCH of really really accurate tools (think machinist Brown and Sharpe stuff accurate to tenths of minutes, ten thousandths of an inch...) in the end, angles get set by making multiple cuts, adding up the parts to find compounding errors and making empirical adjustments until the parts just fit. If you can get the parts to fit perfectly on the lower (near the axle end) perfectly, and with a gap about a 1/4" or less at the fuselage end, then you're in a position where you can adjust those ends to fit perfectly (which is necessary), then overall gear geometry will be fine. If there's a gap, then you transfer the gap dimension onto the strut every quarter of an inch, then just sand, pare with a chisel, whatever method you're most comfortable with, to your new line. That new line should taper from the max gap dimension where the parts touch, to nothing where the gap is the greatest... does that make sense? It's a method of fitting generally known as "scribing". It's closely related to "coping". Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399730#399730 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 01, 2013
From: Jim Boyer <boyerjrb(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Wooden strut metal fittings - help
HI Bill, I did a ttach two photos of the lift strut fittings that are about 80 inches out from the wing root; didn't they go through? Jim B. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 01, 2013
From: gboothe5(at)comcast.net
Subject: Re: Emailing: piet fittings
"...So, consider this. The gear strut geometry at the bottom is probably more critical, because the spacing between the pieces allows room for the axle. I'd consider making the angles fit your metal pieces, then adjust where they hit the fuselage, in the angle, not where the fittings hit the fuse as they are where they are for strength reasons." I'm not sure Tools really meant to say this. Obviously, the struts 'hit' the fuselage where the fittings are located. Those points are fixed. You next decide where you want the axle, and how long the legs are (determines your deck angle). The angles will be the resulting factor. You can make the metal fittings to fit those angles. Gary Boothe NX308MB ----- Original Message ----- From: "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com> Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 7:09:00 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Emailing: piet fittings Ok, the pictures help tons, now I see what you're talking about. If you were to keep the angles to plans on the bottoms of the struts, it would change the angle at the top by a practically negligible amount... By the way, when I say "to the plans", don't take this too seriously. I assume you made the upper angles "to the plans" as close as you could. If you made them PERFECTLY, the plans themselves could be off enough to cause this, just because a piece of paper 20 x 30" can change a quarter of an inch because of humidity... So, consider this. The gear strut geometry at the bottom is probably more critical, because the spacing between the pieces allows room for the axle. I'd consider making the angles fit your metal pieces, then adjust where they hit the fuselage, in the angle, not where the fittings hit the fuse as they are where they are for strength reasons. Compound angle stuff is VERY difficult. TINY errors (pencil widths, imperfect calibration of machine miter gages, etc...) add up VERY quickly. I make some wooden puzzles that require angles to be cut accurately to the minute... Despite a BUNCH of really really accurate tools (think machinist Brown and Sharpe stuff accurate to tenths of minutes, ten thousandths of an inch...) in the end, angles get set by making multiple cuts, adding up the parts to find compounding errors and making empirical adjustments until the parts just fit. If you can get the parts to fit perfectly on the lower (near the axle end) perfectly, and with a gap about a 1/4" or less at the fuselage end, then you're in a position where you can adjust those ends to fit perfectly (which is necessary), then overall gear geometry will be fine. If there's a gap, then you transfer the gap dimension onto the strut every quarter of an inch, then just sand, pare with a chisel, whatever method you're most comfortable with, to your new line. That new line should taper from the max gap dimension where the parts touch, to nothing where the gap is the greatest... does that make sense? It's a method of fitting generally known as "scribing". It's closely related to "coping". Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399730#399730 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 01, 2013
From: Jim Boyer <boyerjrb(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Wing Strut Fittings on Spars
Thanks Ray, I went out and measured 2 1 /8 inches on the fitting center line from the s trut mounting hole to the edge of the spar. Considering the=C2-clearance for the bolt and strut I think I will just c hange the angle a little to make the bottom fitting hole farther up into th e spar. Jim B. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 01, 2013
From: Jim Boyer <boyerjrb(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Wing Strut Fittings on Spars
Thanks Gary, Think I will just move slightly to make bottom fitting hole more into the spar and leave it alone. Jim B. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 01, 2013
From: Jim Boyer <boyerjrb(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Wing Strut Fittings on Spars
Thanks Tools, the list has been very helpful. Think I will leave them as is except for slight move to make lower hole more into spar. Jim B. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 01, 2013
From: Jim Boyer <boyerjrb(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Wing Strut Fittings on Spars
HI Bill, Thanks for the drawing; I will print it off. I think th e angle at the top of my fittings may be off; but anyway I will check it with the drawing and at least move the angle enough to put the lower fitting hole farther up into the spar. Thanks, Jim B. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Emailing: piet fittings
From: "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Apr 30, 2013
Well, we're saying the same thing, it's just tough without pictures... What I'm saying is... hopefully more clearly... is that you need to make the lower fittings fit the metal you have... The axle needs to fit in there correctly. Now, the angle at the fuse is making the strut "hit" the lower fitting in a way that leads you to believe you need to move it an inch and a half closer to the front one. Don't do that. Just adjust the angle on the end of the strut pieces so that they fit. While you may have a big gap based on calculated or measured values, it really isn't that big of a 'real' difference. In other, other words (man, ten minutes in a shop and this would be really obvious!), just like Gary says, the end points are fixed. Just MAKE the struts fit them. Don't cut the end angles based on calculations or measurements off of plans and expect them to fit. They'll be close, but THEN you need to "scribe" them to fit precisely, which will make them very strong. I make them a little long so that the ensuing scribing will shorten them a bit and they'll be pretty darn close to right on as they fit. That "little long" is an amount based on doing lots of this. It's about a quarterish (?) long generally. You kind of see the part close in on the right length and spot as you scribe it to fit... I have no idea if this helps or not... I've always said a carrier landing is like a free throw in basket ball. Not terribly complicated, but try WRITING a description of how to throw a free throw! And in the end, it isn't that complicated, but if you're going to bet your arse on it, you just gotta be pretty good at it. Does that help? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399738#399738 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Emailing: piet fittings
From: "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Apr 30, 2013
And I just reread what I originally wrote a few times... Gary is EXACTLY right... DO NOT adjust where they hit ANYTHING (you seem to be trying to adjust where they hit the lower fitting) and I seem to say to adjust where they hit the fuse. I didn't mean that. The clearer description is, adjust the angles, the end points are VERY fixed. The normal way to do this would be to cut the angles you measure off the plans, then wonder why they don't fit. Use the angles on the plans so you have a piece that will fit closely enough that you can figure the angle precisely. Is that better?!!! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399739#399739 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Emailing: piet fittings
From: "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca>
Date: Apr 30, 2013
So, Jim, are you saying that your wood isn't coming out right, or is it the metal that isn't fitting correctly? My guess is that your wood isn't quite right, if you feel the need to bring the tabs of your metal fittings 1 1/2" closer together. The wood needs to be the correct size at the bottom V, so that the axle can sit between the front and back legs of the gear without binding. And, as Gary said, the upper ends of the gear legs need to fall at the mounting brackets on the fuselage. Probably the best approach would be to first make sure that your woodwork is the way it is supposed to be, and then, using the plans as a guide, and using some card stock (rather than aluminum foil - that must be horrible to work with) create templates for the metal fittings. Fit and adjust the card stock templates as needed until they fit YOUR wood gear properly. At this point, use those templates to cut your metal fittings. Bill C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399742#399742 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Wooden strut metal fittings - help
From: "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca>
Date: Apr 30, 2013
Jim (Boyer), Looks like two different questions about metal fittings got posted by two different Jims. I was asking Jim Quinn for photos. Your photos came through fine. Bill C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399743#399743 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Wooden gear legs
Date: May 01, 2013
Great help guys re the wooden gear fittings! After reading that post a couple weeks ago about the broken gear leg, it seems a good thing to make it a priority that the gear legs actually touch both the fuselage longerons and eachother at the bottom, so shock isn't all taken up by the bolts. $.02 Douwe ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Dan's axle bending question
Date: May 01, 2013
Hey Dan, I've been wondering about the same thing. Like yours, my wheels "bow" in a touch (easier to see on large wheels). My bird is heavier than yours so I'm sure it is worse on mine. I honestly don't know the answer, but it SEEMS to me that if that axle is overstressed, the bowing would increase which would be a sign to take action. I could easily be wrong, but without a major "slam landing" I don't see the axle just giving way. So seems like we'd have warning, we just need to keep tabs on it?? That being said, I think I'm going to modify my axle this winter with internal diagonal bracing per my last post. Douwe ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: dimple tape and Ace...
Date: May 01, 2013
Wow, must have been totally out of it when I wrote that post yesterday. I am not getting more "simple tape" from "Ace". I'm ordering more "dimple tape from ACS" (aircraft spruce). And, even that is wrong. "dimple tape" is not longer available (unless from sign printers, I hear but have not researched it). One can buy "vortilator tape) from a number of sailplane suppliers and from Aircraft Spruce. They sell enough to do a prop for $39. It looks like "zig zag" tape and works the same as dimple tape. I hear it works, but the jury is still out until I try it. With a C-90 up front, anything I can do to save a little fuel is a good thing. I find I can still climb (one person) at 2,000 rpm and I've really been enjoying chugging around the countryside at 60kts. It's super quiet and is getting me ready to fly formation with those Fords this July!!! Douwe ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Emailing: piet fittings
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
Date: May 01, 2013
Jim, If you are very lucky, you won't have to remake these fittings three times like I did. There are many subtleties with the Jenny gear wood struts. Prob ably no two ever come out the same. My suggestion would be to go through th e process of cutting/fitting the wood struts first, then make your fittings to fit what you have. The process outlined by Chris Tracy westcoastpiet.co m is the way to go. I made mine and struggled mightily, before his informat ion was available. Dan Helsper Puryear, TN -----Original Message----- From: Jim Quinn <quinnj(at)sbcglobal.net> Sent: Tue, Apr 30, 2013 8:11 pm Subject: Pietenpol-List: Emailing: piet fittings Hi Bill, Here's a pic. Cut pieces on the bottom, inside and outside fittings for the wooden landing gear. My foil cut-outs are on top. I'm using plans purchased from the Pietenpol family, a one page supplement. Thanks, Jim : piet fittings ing or receiving certain types of file attachments. Check your e-mail secu ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: axle bending
From: "CraigAho" <Soar561(at)hotmail.com>
Date: May 01, 2013
I'm just a simple woodworker so I probably shouldn't be trying to engineer anything but just another thought. What if You were to take a piece of white oak, ash or doug fir say rectangular and with a snug fit set it into the tube verticle to help the tube resist bending, since the axels are just over time bending or saging in the middle would that not help reinforce it.? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399757#399757 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: axle bending
From: Gary Boothe <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Date: May 01, 2013
Craig, My axle is 1 1/2" with just enough inside clearance to receive a solid 1" axle. Wheel bearings have been changed to fit the axle. The solid axle inserts are 18" long, each. Heavy, Yes, but they will never bend, as attested to in numerous attempts! Gary Boothe NX308MB Sent from my iPhone On May 1, 2013, at 6:40 AM, "CraigAho" wrote: > > I'm just a simple woodworker so I probably shouldn't be trying to engineer anything but just another thought. What if You were to take a piece of white oak, ash or doug fir say rectangular and with a snug fit set it into the tube verticle to help the tube resist bending, since the axels are just over time bending or saging in the middle would that not help reinforce it.? > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399757#399757 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: central Iowa Piets?
From: "rorichts" <stolflite(at)gmail.com>
Date: May 01, 2013
Looking to build, any complete or projects in central Iowa? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399769#399769 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: central Iowa Piets?
From: "rorichts" <stolflite(at)gmail.com>
Date: May 01, 2013
Any central iowa piets I could connect with Thanks Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399770#399770 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Perry Rhoads" <prhoads61(at)frontiernet.net>
Subject: Re: central Iowa Piets?
Date: May 01, 2013
Not central Iowa, but central Illinois. N12939 is at Litchfield,IL. (3LF). 200 statute from Blakesburg,IA. You're welcome any time. Perry Rhoads ----- Original Message ----- From: "rorichts" <stolflite(at)gmail.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2013 11:09 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: central Iowa Piets? > > Any central iowa piets I could connect with > Thanks > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399770#399770 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: central Iowa Piets?
From: "ldmill" <lorin.miller(at)emerson.com>
Date: May 01, 2013
Yup! I actually live in Colo - right between Ames and Marshalltown. Have a GN-1 hangered in Marshalltown. Give me a yell: Lorin Miller Cell - 641-485-0840 email: lorin.miller(at)emerson.com GN-1 N30PP, Cont A-75 -------- Lorin Miller Waiex N81YX GN-1 N30PP Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399776#399776 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: central Iowa Piets?
From: "Dennis Vetter" <minimax103(at)hotmail.com>
Date: May 01, 2013
I'm 20 miles WNW of Fort Dodge,IA. N6636B 65 hp Cont, Piet. Where are you located? Dennis Vetter, minimax103(at)hotmail.com :D Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399778#399778 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/pietenpol__etlb_150.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: axle bending
From: "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com>
Date: May 01, 2013
Craig, I think that was fairly common back in the day on straight axle ships... to pound a piece of oak or ask into the axle tube. Don Emch NX899DE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399780#399780 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: axle bending
From: "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com>
Date: May 01, 2013
Something to consider is that it would trap moisture in there (as nearly all wood has some moisture content) promoting corrosion. When I disassembled the gear on the J1 Standard, there was wood inside of the anti rotation mechanism to stiffen it up, and it was pretty corroded. My guess is that the anti rotation mechanism was added in the mid '70's. The axle isn't very open to allow circulation, and it gets doused in water regularly (even dew on the grass in the evening). When I took all the gear fittings (fuse and down by the axle) off of 2RN, there was evidence of corrosion and it's a pretty new plane, ALWAYS hangared. Even though it might take so long to cause strength problems in the metal, it probably wouldn't take long to compromise the wood itself to where it really isn't useful. Now, if it were replaced at every annual or two... If you were to to it, white oak is probably the best to use considering its strength and rot resistance. Just food for thought. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399784#399784 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jerry Grogan" <jerry(at)SKYCLASSIC.NET>
Subject: central Iowa Piets?
Date: May 01, 2013
I know there are a couple of planes being built in central IA. I have one but have not worked on it for a few years. Prairie City. There are others but they man not want to be named. Jerry Grogan -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of rorichts Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2013 11:09 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: central Iowa Piets? Any central iowa piets I could connect with Thanks Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399770#399770 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Craig Aho <soar561(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: axle bending
Date: May 01, 2013
It is nice to know that the idea has some merrit and was used back in the day so I dont have to feel embaresed. I handn't thought about the moisture aspect=2C How about Teak:). I like to use wood whenever possible being a wo odworker and my other aircraft project is an Emeraude which is another very nice wood aircraft. > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: axle bending > From: n0kkj(at)yahoo.com > Date: Wed=2C 1 May 2013 10:54:34 -0700 > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > > > Something to consider is that it would trap moisture in there (as nearly all wood has some moisture content) promoting corrosion. When I disassembl ed the gear on the J1 Standard=2C there was wood inside of the anti rotatio n mechanism to stiffen it up=2C and it was pretty corroded. My guess is th at the anti rotation mechanism was added in the mid '70's. > > The axle isn't very open to allow circulation=2C and it gets doused in wa ter regularly (even dew on the grass in the evening). > > When I took all the gear fittings (fuse and down by the axle) off of 2RN =2C there was evidence of corrosion and it's a pretty new plane=2C ALWAYS h angared. > > Even though it might take so long to cause strength problems in the metal =2C it probably wouldn't take long to compromise the wood itself to where i t really isn't useful. Now=2C if it were replaced at every annual or two.. . > > If you were to to it=2C white oak is probably the best to use considering its strength and rot resistance. > > Just food for thought. > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399784#399784 > > > > > > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 01, 2013
From: shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: dimple tape and Ace...
Douwe, I have a bunch of polyurethane erosion tape (used on leading eges of jet aircraft=C2-antenas etc)=C2-I got from work that was expired shelf life, and would probably work just as well as the $40 ACS stuff.=C2- Let me know and I could Mail you some or better yet meet you halfway some Satu rday for breakfast and give it to you.=C2- You could simply cut the zig z ag with pinking shears.=C2- Might need to use a little super glue to keep it tight. =C2- Let me Know, Shad --- On Wed, 5/1/13, Douwe Blumberg wrote: From: Douwe Blumberg <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> Subject: Pietenpol-List: dimple tape and Ace... Date: Wednesday, May 1, 2013, 7:30 AM Wow, must have been totally out of it when I wrote that post yesterday.=C2 - I am not getting more =9Csimple tape=9D from =9CAce =9D I=99m ordering more =9Cdimple tape from ACS =9D (aircraft spruce). =C2- And, even that is wrong.=C2- =9Cdimple tape=9D is not longer available (unless from sign printers, I hear but have not researched it). =C2- One can buy =9Cvortilator tape) from a number of sailplane sup pliers and from Aircraft Spruce.=C2- They sell enough to do a prop for $3 9.=C2- It looks like =9Czig zag=9D tape and works the same as dimple tape. =C2- I hear it works, but the jury is still out until I try it.=C2- With a C-9 0 up front, anything I can do to save a little fuel is a good thing.=C2- I find I can still climb (one person) at 2,000 rpm and I=99ve really been enjoying chugging around the countryside at 60kts.=C2- It=99s super quiet and is getting me ready to fly formation with those Fords this July!!! =C2- Douwe ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: axle bending
From: "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com>
Date: May 01, 2013
Oh ya, I think it's got great merit. I, too, started down this path as I was a woodworker. The airplane I first started researching was a GP-4, another all wood aircraft, but then found the Piet and decided that was a better first project. Teak would work as well, but white oak is nearly as rot resistant and WAAAY cheaper (as I'm sure you know). I just think it would be a good idea to put that sort of thing on a regular inspection cycle. After seeing the corrosion under the other metal fittings, I'm about to the point I think airplanes should be uncovered and redone every 10 to 15 yrs anyway. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399796#399796 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 01, 2013
From: Jim Boyer <boyerjrb(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Wooden strut metal fittings - help
HI Bill, I realized that after seeing Jim Quinn's message. Unusual that two Jim's ha d questions that sounded like the same problem; almost! =C2- Thanks for your drawing though. I went out and measured the angle I was use ing and it was more like 45 than 40; redid my drawing at 40 and the fitting s work right (except for the miter at top is wrong, but it is so close that it will only take a minute with my grinder to fix them). Got all the plywood pieces cut that go under all the wing root and lift str ut fittings so tomorrow will get them glued. Cheers, Jim B. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Date: May 01, 2013
Subject: nice looking Scout on Barnstormers
And a few other items of possible interest. And all this talk about axels.....just build one with a thick wall and be d one with it. You'll be fine. Mine has 15 years, 450 hours and lots of firm arrivals and it hasn't bent. Talk about making more work out of work. Again, my axel is 1.5" OD and 0.188 wall thickness of 4130 and it works jus t fine. Mike C. [cid:image001.png(at)01CE4683.02025350] ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dortch, Steven D MAJ MIL USA NGB" <steven.d.dortch(at)us.army.mil>
Date: May 01, 2013
Subject: Re: axle bending
UNCLASSIFIED Old Buddy Master mechanic with a lot of time working on "old Planes" has often commented that the "New fabrics" are lifetime covers and that shortcircuits the old process of getting to inspect the airframe every 10 or so years when the dope and linnen got too loose. Zippers and inspections holes help. but there is nothing like having her naked. Blue Skies, Steve D On 05/01/13, tools wrote: > > Oh ya, I think it's got great merit. I, too, started down this path as I was a woodworker. The airplane I first started researching was a GP-4, another all wood aircraft, but then found the Piet and decided that was a better first project. > > Teak would work as well, but white oak is nearly as rot resistant and WAAAY cheaper (as I'm sure you know). I just think it would be a good idea to put that sort of thing on a regular inspection cycle. > > After seeing the corrosion under the other metal fittings, I'm about to the point I think airplanes should be uncovered and redone every 10 to 15 yrs anyway. > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399796#399796 > > > > > > > UNCLASSIFIED ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: central Iowa Piets?
From: Jack <jack(at)textors.com>
Date: May 01, 2013
Robert I'm in DSM, www.textors.com Sent from my iPad Jack Textor On May 1, 2013, at 10:45 AM, "rorichts" wrote: > > Looking to build, any complete or projects in central Iowa? > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399769#399769 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Greenlee" <jmgreenlee(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Douwe's email address
Date: May 01, 2013
Douwe, I want to send you email. Can you link up with me at jmgreenlee(at)sbcglobal.net? Thanks! JMG ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Your Favorite Words to Hear in a Georgia Restaurant?
From: "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com>
Date: May 01, 2013
of course, they are "Ribs are Done!" :D Just finished my last wing rib today. Well, not quite done. I have to- 1. Trim the nose of the ribs for the leading edge piece, as yet to be built. 2. Rout the gussets where they are "proud". (always loved that word when talking about building) 3. Trim the tail of the ribs to prep them for the trailing edge piece, as yet to be created. But I am at least finished with the jig. Progress! But I have one question- Tony Bingelis suggests NOT putting the ribs together on a set of short faux spars to sand them. He says it is better to trammel the wings and then sand two or three of them at a time with a long sanding board. To the builders who have completed your wings, does it really matter, as Tony suggests? Your thoughts are appreciated. P. S. On to the tail feathers! -------- Semper Fi, Terry Hand Athens, GA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399816#399816 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Your Favorite Words to Hear in a Georgia Restaurant?
From: "John Francis" <Mrkringles(at)msn.com>
Date: May 01, 2013
Terry, Congrats on the ribs! What is it that you are sanding on the ribs? Are you talking about your gussets? If so a router table does a sweet job on trimming these. John -------- John Francis Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399817#399817 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Your Favorite Words to Hear in a Georgia Restaurant?
From: "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com>
Date: May 01, 2013
John, I should have made it more clear. I am talking about after routing the gussets, then sanding the capstrips to even up any minor differences between the individual ribs, and in order to ensure their uniformity. -------- Semper Fi, Terry Hand Athens, GA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399818#399818 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Your Favorite Words to Hear in a Georgia Restaurant?
From: "John Francis" <Mrkringles(at)msn.com>
Date: May 01, 2013
I didn't sand mine at that point. When they came out of the jig they were all VERY much the same. Had I mounted them together and tried to sand them to a even a tighter tolerance, I probably would of made them worse. I did sand the sharp edges round so they would not cut the fabric when it is applied. -------- John Francis Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399819#399819 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Your Favorite Words to Hear in a Georgia Restaurant?
From: "dgaldrich" <dgaldrich(at)embarqmail.com>
Date: May 01, 2013
Hi Terry Think about this. The ONLY place the wing will have the profile of the jig is directly on top of the rib. The rest of the span between the ribs, the airfoil will be some slightly warped version of the airfoil since the fabric isn't rigid and will always have some degree of sag. This means that somewhere between 90 and 95% of the wing will have some curve similar to but not exactly like the jig. If you were covering them in plywood a la Wittman Tailwind/Bellanca Viking, it might be worth the effort to make them exact, but for fabric, I suggest that the way they came out of the jig is close enough. Trim them up, make sure there's no sharp edges to irritate the fabric and go forth. Dave Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399822#399822 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Your Favorite Words to Hear in a Georgia Restaurant?
From: "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com>
Date: May 01, 2013
Jarhead!!! 1. Congrats! 2. Sanding. Don't matter. Built HUNDREDS of model airplane wings with tons of ribs doing every method on the books to ensure uniformity (straight wings, tapered wings, eliptical wings, gang sanded, two to three ribs at a time, the whole wing at a time... ). It just doesn't matter. It'll be fine. Knocking the edges off IS important. It's VERY tedious, but will help the fabric immeasurably. 80 to 100 grit sandpaper on a wood block will do the job well for doug fir, cedar, poplar or spruce. Go for a just noticeable round over. 3. C'mon... you know I know better than that, ribs are done in GA whatev... Normal "pros" might think Kansas City, Memphis. We both know the saying is best reserved for Dinosaur's, in upper New York. Just sayin'. 4. Congrats again! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399823#399823 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Update from: Corky's Rib Building
From: "dgaldrich" <dgaldrich(at)embarqmail.com>
Date: May 01, 2013
For What It's Worth department... Aeronca Chiefs use 1/4 x 1/4 sitka for their ribs. I would think 3/8 doug fir would be up to the job in the Piet. The 1/4 x 1/2 per plans is probably a LOT of overkill, sort of like the aft end of the fuselage. Dave Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399824#399824 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Your Favorite Words to Hear in a Georgia Restaurant?
From: "biplan53" <biplan53(at)hotmail.com>
Date: May 01, 2013
Way to go!!! Sounds like your on a roll. Don't slack up. Mike -------- Building steel fuselage aircamper. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399825#399825 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Clif Dawson" <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: nice looking Scout on Barnstormers
Date: May 01, 2013
Right! The axle, though a round tube, is a beam, just like the spars are. Look at the one inch routed spar. The outer "edges" are the full one inch width but the center area is only 1/2" thick. The question then is "How does this work?".The answer is that in a beam the bending strength is mostly in that very small area at the edges. The center's main function, and in many cases only function, is to hold those two outer bits in place, simply a seperator. It's a little more complicated in a true space frame application of joined triangles, and somewhat stronger. This is what Douwe will be attempting. In the drawing below I have illustrated three types of beam.The two outer ones show tension/compression caps clearly. Because of the uniform circular homogenious cross section of the tube the "cap" / web concept is not so evident.But it's there. Unfortunately, with a tube, increasing the "cap" crossection automaticaly comes with the penalty of doing the same with the webs. What all this means is that by stuffing a chunk of wood down there is really adding more web without much benefit of cap. Another thingis that just because one wood is harder and heavier than another does not translate into strength. The compression strength of Spruce is 4780 lb/inch=B2 but the much heavier Oak is 4760 lb/inch=B2. Clif The Monkey Wrench. :-) I prefer drawing to talking. Drawing is faster and leaves less room for lies. LeCorbusier And all this talk about axels...just build one with a thick wall and be done with it. You'll be fine. Mine has 15 years, 450 hours and lots of firm arrivals and it hasn't bent. Talk about making more work out of work. Again, my axel is 1.5" OD and 0.188 wall thickness of 4130 and it works just fine. Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Clif Dawson" <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Wooden gear legs
Date: May 01, 2013
Absolutely!! The more touching the better. :-) Clif After reading that post a couple weeks ago about the broken gear leg, it seems a good thing to make it a priority that the gear legs actually touch both the fuselage longerons and eachother at the bottom, so shock isn't all taken up by the bolts. $.02 Douwe ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: I Forgot to Add Proof
From: "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com>
Date: May 02, 2013
Sorry for the 2nd thread. I forgot to add the proof/photos/evidence. -------- Semper Fi, Terry Hand Athens, GA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399833#399833 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_2960_205.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_2959_229.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Your Favorite Words to Hear in a Georgia Restaurant?
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
Date: May 02, 2013
Terry, I would have found that very cumbersome and completely unnecessary (Sorry U ncle Tony). If your spars are close to perfect (most are) then it follows t hat the wing surfaces will be also if the ribs are identical to each other, and placement and relation to the spars is the same. Dan Helsper Puryear, TN -----Original Message----- From: jarheadpilot82 <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com> Sent: Wed, May 1, 2013 8:46 pm Subject: Pietenpol-List: Your Favorite Words to Hear in a Georgia Restauran t? ail.com> of course, they are "Ribs are Done!" :D Just finished my last wing rib today. Well, not quite done. I have to- 1. Trim the nose of the ribs for the leading edge piece, as yet to be built . 2. Rout the gussets where they are "proud". (always loved that word when ta lking about building) 3. Trim the tail of the ribs to prep them for the trailing edge piece, as y et to be created. But I am at least finished with the jig. Progress! But I have one question- Tony Bingelis suggests NOT putting the ribs together on a set of short faux spars to sand them. He says it is better to trammel the wings and then sand two or three of them at a time with a long sanding board. To the builders who h ave completed your wings, does it really matter, as Tony suggests? Your thought s are appreciated. P. S. On to the tail feathers! -------- Semper Fi, Terry Hand Athens, GA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399816#399816 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Your Favorite Words to Hear in a Georgia Restaurant?
From: "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com>
Date: May 02, 2013
Thanks to all for the words of wisdom. I will round off the edges of the gussets after routing them flush and call it a day. Thanks again. -------- Semper Fi, Terry Hand Athens, GA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399837#399837 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Shad's offer and axle thoughts
Date: May 02, 2013
Thanks Shad! Dang, I already ordered the zig zag stuff and it's on its' way. Re the axle discussion, then I'll shut up about it. I agree with Mikeee, if you're building, just use the thicker stuff and save weight somewhere else besides the landing gear. Believe me, that is one place you don't want to skimp. I'm in a different boat as because mine is already done, so whether I modify mine (kind of a fun experiment) or build a new one, they're both extra work. Building a new one being a bit more work. D ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Craig Aho <soar561(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Wooden gear legs
Date: May 02, 2013
Is that 2 cents Canadian or US? From: cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wooden gear legs Date: Wed=2C 1 May 2013 22:37:03 -0700 =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A Absolutely!! The more touching the better. =0A :-)=0A =0A Clif=0A =0A After reading that post a couple =0A weeks ago about the broken gear leg=2C it seems a good thing to make it a =0A priority that the gear legs actually touch both the fuselage longerons an d =0A eachother at the bottom=2C so shock isn=92t all taken up by the =0A bolts.=0A =0A =0A $.02=0A =0A Douwe=0A =0A =0A =0A =0A ============0A ============0A ============0A ============0A =0A ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: axle bending
From: "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca>
Date: May 02, 2013
First off, the axle as shown in the plans should be sufficient. But the key is "as shown in the plans"; i.e. no brakes (or, more precisely, no extended axle required due to space needed for brakes). If the space required for the brake arrangement you choose is relatively small, just beef up the wall thickness to 3/16", as has been successfully done by Mike Cuy and others. If your brake system needs more space, use the heavier wall and also get the tube heat treated, like Jack Phillips did. Shoving a piece of wood inside the axle doesn't seem to be a wise approach. As was mentioned, the wood will retain moisture, and almost certainly result in corrosion. And the wood will add very little in strength. Just because something was an accepted practice many years ago, doesn't mean it is/was a good idea. And finally, I can't see adding a bunch of diagonal tubes being a viable option. It would be a lot of work. It would add minimal strength. All the additional welding will likely warp the axle. Douwe, if you feel the need to stiffen your existing axle, you may be able to simply weld a steel bar onto the top and bottom surfaces of your current axle. Since your axle is already hidden inside a fairing, the added bars likely would not even be visible. Of course, care would need to be taken in your welding procedure to ensure that distortion is minimized. Bill C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399855#399855 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: axle bending
From: "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org>
Date: May 02, 2013
Here is a pic of my planes front view. The axle is 1.5 inches by 0.125 wall and is original to the plane. It does not have anything extra in the center of it. At times I do have a little bow in the axle when loaded to gross weight. I do not have any brakes which means that the axle is full floating and can rotate should a wheel run low on grease. Ask me how I know. It is hard on the bungee cords when that happens. My feeling is to just use the heavier wall tube and don't worry about it. When it does bend or flex a little it add some camber to the wheels. I think that would make for a little better handling qualities. My 3 cents. (adjusted for inflation) -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399858#399858 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/piet_115_234.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Date: May 02, 2013
Subject: Plans inconsistency
Pieters, Had this problem 13 years ago and have forgotten how it was solved. Spar distances. The fullsize layout indicates 27 3/4 in distance between spars inside measurements. If you measure the layout you will find a distance of 28 1/4. Who should I believe. Need your comments before I cut wood. Corky ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Craig Aho <soar561(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: axle bending
Date: May 02, 2013
Sounds good to me=2C since I have to replace my bowed axel anyway Im going to the heavier wall. But the discussion was kind of interesting. > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: axle bending > From: Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org > Date: Thu=2C 2 May 2013 09:19:36 -0700 > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > ity.org> > > Here is a pic of my planes front view. The axle is 1.5 inches by 0.125 wa ll and is original to the plane. It does not have anything extra in the ce nter of it. At times I do have a little bow in the axle when loaded to gro ss weight. I do not have any brakes which means that the axle is full floa ting and can rotate should a wheel run low on grease. Ask me how I know. It is hard on the bungee cords when that happens. My feeling is to just us e the heavier wall tube and don't worry about it. When it does bend or fle x a little it add some camber to the wheels. I think that would make for a little better handling qualities. > > My 3 cents. (adjusted for inflation) > > -------- > Scott Liefeld > Flying N11MS since March 1972 > Steel Tube > C-85-12 > Wire Wheels > Brodhead in 1996 > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399858#399858 > > > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/piet_115_234.jpg > > > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Plans inconsistency
From: "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com>
Date: May 02, 2013
Corky, When looking at my plans, I see the chord as being 60 inches. If you add the distances (6 3/4 + 1 + 27 3/4 + 1 + 11 3/4 + 11 3/4) it equals 60 inches. I don't have the full size rib drawing with me, but does it show a different size spar than the 1 inch? Like maybe a 3/4"? That could be your missing 1/2" 1/4" less on each spar. I may be talking out my backside, but just trying to help. -------- Semper Fi, Terry Hand Athens, GA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399869#399869 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/screen_shot_2013_05_02_at_20136_pm_911.png ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: axle bending
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
Date: May 02, 2013
Bill, I hear you. All this talk about axle bending.....but a little bending (flex ing) is OK. Its the "breaking" part we want to avoid. My axle is warped fro m all the welding. I agree that when welding in all those diagonals, warpin g would be difficult to avoid. But if anyone could do it, Douwe certainly c ould with his experience and skill. Dan Helsper Puryear, TN -----Original Message----- From: Bill Church <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca> Sent: Thu, May 2, 2013 11:41 am Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: axle bending > First off, the axle as shown in the plans should be sufficient. But the ke y is "as shown in the plans"; i.e. no brakes (or, more precisely, no extended ax le required due to space needed for brakes). If the space required for the br ake arrangement you choose is relatively small, just beef up the wall thickness to 3/16", as has been successfully done by Mike Cuy and others. If your brake system needs more space, use the heavier wall and also get the tube heat treated, like Jack Phillips did. Shoving a piece of wood inside the axle doesn't seem to be a wise approach. As was mentioned, the wood will retain moisture, and almost certainly result i n corrosion. And the wood will add very little in strength. Just because something was an accepted practice many years ago, doesn't mean it is/was a good idea. And finally, I can't see adding a bunch of diagonal tubes being a viable op tion. It would be a lot of work. It would add minimal strength. All the additio nal welding will likely warp the axle. Douwe, if you feel the need to stiffen your existing axle, you may be able to simply weld a steel bar onto the top and bottom surfaces of your current axle. Since your axle is already hidden in side a fairing, the added bars likely would not even be visible. Of course, car e would need to be taken in your welding procedure to ensure that distortion is minimized. Bill C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399855#399855 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: central Iowa Piets?
From: "rorichts" <stolflite(at)gmail.com>
Date: May 02, 2013
Dennis Vetter wrote: > I'm 20 miles WNW of Fort Dodge,IA. N6636B 65 hp Cont, Piet. Where are you located? Dennis Vetter, minimax103(at)hotmail.com :D Dennis Look forward to seeing you again, it was yours that I saw in Iowa Falls last summer Rich Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399875#399875 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: central Iowa Piets?
From: "rorichts" <stolflite(at)gmail.com>
Date: May 02, 2013
jack(at)textors.com wrote: > Robert I'm in DSM, www.textors.com > > Sent from my iPad > Jack Textor > Jack > Looked over your pics very nice, your experience will be very helpful > Rich ( Robert) > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399769#399769 > > > > > > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399876#399876 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: central Iowa Piets?
From: "rorichts" <stolflite(at)gmail.com>
Date: May 02, 2013
ldmill wrote: > Yup! I actually live in Colo - right between Ames and Marshalltown. Have a GN-1 hangered in Marshalltown. Give me a yell: > Lorin Miller > Cell - 641-485-0840 > email: lorin.miller(at)emerson.com > GN-1 N30PP, Cont A-75 Nice weather improves will stop in Marshalltown and have another close look take care Rich Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399878#399878 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: I Forgot to Add Proof
From: "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com>
Date: May 02, 2013
Thanks, Jerry. I appreciate the encouragement. -------- Semper Fi, Terry Hand Athens, GA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399880#399880 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "C N Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net>
Subject: Re: Plans inconsistency
Date: May 02, 2013
My full-size rib plan measures 27-11/16 spar to spar. That's the reason that full-size rib plan should not be used to build your rib jig with. Paper shrinks or expands with the changes in temperature and humidity. On the main wing plan, there is a drawing at the top of the page giving the dimensions on how to lay out the wing rib. Suggest you use that wing rib plan to decorate your shop wall and lay out the rib on the piece of whatever you are going to use for the jig, using the diminsions from the main drawing. Then, come in 6-3/4 inches from the front of the rib to the front of the spar (if you plan to use a 1-inch thick spar) use 7 inches from the front of the rib if you're using a 3/4 inch thick spar (which is what I did). Then use the wing rib plan to establish the verticals and diagonal pieces. KEEP THE 27-3/4 DIMENSION FROM THE REAR OF THE FRONT SPAR TO THE FRONT OF THE REAR SPAR. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2013 12:41 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Plans inconsistency Pieters, Had this problem 13 years ago and have forgotten how it was solved. Spar distances. The fullsize layout indicates 27 3/4 in distance between spars inside measurements. If you measure the layout you will find a distance of 28 1/4. Who should I believe. Need your comments before I cut wood. Corky ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Date: May 02, 2013
Subject: Re: Plans inconsistency
In a message dated 5/2/2013 6:26:14 P.M. Central Daylight Time, cncampbell(at)windstream.net writes: My full-size rib plan measures 27-11/16 spar to spar. That's the reason that full-size rib plan should not be used to build your rib jig with. Paper shrinks or expands with the changes in temperature and humidity. On the main wing plan, there is a drawing at the top of the page giving the dimensions on how to lay out the wing rib. Suggest you use that wing rib plan to decorate your shop wall and lay out the rib on the piece of whatever you are going to use for the jig, using the diminsions from the main drawing. Then, come in 6-3/4 inches from the front of the rib to the front of the spar (if you plan to use a 1-inch thick spar) use 7 inches from the front of the rib if you're using a 3/4 inch thick spar (which is what I did). Then use the wing rib plan to establish the verticals and diagonal pieces. KEEP THE 27-3/4 DIMENSION FROM THE REAR OF THE FRONT SPAR TO THE FRONT OF THE REAR SPAR. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: _Isablcorky(at)aol.com_ (mailto:Isablcorky(at)aol.com) Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2013 12:41 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Plans inconsistency Pieters, Had this problem 13 years ago and have forgotten how it was solved. Spar distances. The fullsize layout indicates 27 3/4 in distance between spars inside measurements. If you measure the layout you will find a distance of 28 1/4. Who should I believe. Need your comments before I cut wood. Corky href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c Thanks. I'm profiling the rib on my jig now using the given numbers. It will take longer to get set up but the accuracy will be well worth it; Corky ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Clif Dawson" <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Wooden gear legs
Date: May 02, 2013
I dunno. Ask your wife. :-) Under certain circumstances I'm fairly certain it doesn't matter. Clif A Canadian is someone who knows how to make love in a canoe. Pierre Burton ----- Original Message ----- From: Craig Aho Is that 2 cents Canadian or US? ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca Absolutely!! The more touching the better. :-) Clif make it a priority that the gear legs actually touch both the fuselage longerons and eachother at the bottom, $.02 Douwe ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Wooden gear legs
From: "Dennis Vetter" <minimax103(at)hotmail.com>
Date: May 02, 2013
That's worth more than $.02. Some times small details matter. A lot! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399895#399895 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Date: May 03, 2013
Subject: Re: Plans inconsistency
In a message dated 5/2/2013 6:26:14 P.M. Central Daylight Time, cncampbell(at)windstream.net writes: My full-size rib plan measures 27-11/16 spar to spar. That's the reason that full-size rib plan should not be used to build your rib jig with. Paper shrinks or expands with the changes in temperature and humidity. On the main wing plan, there is a drawing at the top of the page giving the dimensions on how to lay out the wing rib. Suggest you use that wing rib plan to decorate your shop wall and lay out the rib on the piece of whatever you are going to use for the jig, using the diminsions from the main drawing. Then, come in 6-3/4 inches from the front of the rib to the front of the spar (if you plan to use a 1-inch thick spar) use 7 inches from the front of the rib if you're using a 3/4 inch thick spar (which is what I did). Then use the wing rib plan to establish the verticals and diagonal pieces. KEEP THE 27-3/4 DIMENSION FROM THE REAR OF THE FRONT SPAR TO THE FRONT OF THE REAR SPAR. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: _Isablcorky(at)aol.com_ (mailto:Isablcorky(at)aol.com) Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2013 12:41 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Plans inconsistency Pieters, Had this problem 13 years ago and have forgotten how it was solved. Spar distances. The fullsize layout indicates 27 3/4 in distance between spars inside measurements. If you measure the layout you will find a distance of 28 1/4. Who should I believe. Need your comments before I cut wood. Corky href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c Starting over today on the rib jig. Thanks Corky ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "C N Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net>
Subject: Re: Plans inconsistency
Date: May 03, 2013
Anything else you need advice about don't lhesitate to yell! The guys on this list are more than happy to expound on their vast store of knowledge :>) Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, May 03, 2013 8:44 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Plans inconsistency In a message dated 5/2/2013 6:26:14 P.M. Central Daylight Time, cncampbell(at)windstream.net writes: My full-size rib plan measures 27-11/16 spar to spar. That's the reason that full-size rib plan should not be used to build your rib jig with. Paper shrinks or expands with the changes in temperature and humidity. On the main wing plan, there is a drawing at the top of the page giving the dimensions on how to lay out the wing rib. Suggest you use that wing rib plan to decorate your shop wall and lay out the rib on the piece of whatever you are going to use for the jig, using the diminsions from the main drawing. Then, come in 6-3/4 inches from the front of the rib to the front of the spar (if you plan to use a 1-inch thick spar) use 7 inches from the front of the rib if you're using a 3/4 inch thick spar (which is what I did). Then use the wing rib plan to establish the verticals and diagonal pieces. KEEP THE 27-3/4 DIMENSION FROM THE REAR OF THE FRONT SPAR TO THE FRONT OF THE REAR SPAR. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2013 12:41 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Plans inconsistency Pieters, Had this problem 13 years ago and have forgotten how it was solved. Spar distances. The fullsize layout indicates 27 3/4 in distance between spars inside measurements. If you measure the layout you will find a distance of 28 1/4. Who should I believe. Need your comments before I cut wood. Corky href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List s.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com p://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution Starting over today on the rib jig. Thanks Corky ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Date: May 03, 2013
Subject: Wicks 4130 Dillsburg
http://www.wicksaircraft.com/index.html Of possible interest. I know Wicks probably isn't the most popular airc raft supply house anymore but to me they were the best when building my Piet. ASSCO (Aircraft Spruce & Specialty Co.) was, by comparison, in my years of building much less-aircraft knowledgeable, messed up more orders and had more back- ordered items than Wicks ever had. I don't know if that is true today but I was much happier with my dealings with Wicks ov er Aircraft Spruce in every way. MikeC. From: Wicks Aircraft Supply [mailto:wicksaircraft(at)gmail.com] Sent: Friday, May 03, 2013 10:25 AM Subject: 4130 Dillsburg [http://img.constantcontact.com/letters/images/1101093164665/news-black-acc ent-hdr.png] [http://ih.constantcontact.com/fs093/1105202523133/img/1.jpg] 6.net/tn.jsp?e=001orRSjz-Uohai-ILZyCa0q5UEAe8a2-UuhZ_zArvJdrxM_GjsrXV6313 _sZbnVBMue4MUt4KDf37T7e-LIkAvizNP5y28B3Pgm5ngmohgjkYJU8xmHV9nEWo6qlgBaqCYHP vFT3JqpMpvOwhHkD9KVJT7kU6NknFATuhwg4IlZLwcIE153myvd5yZIRTWhdk7Vhdsyc4fr1WHU t6vKQT0lUXOJrsutH9MRg2VK8FEgjhfMxvjT4Y1RIb64T7DVb5bB3Ph-7Josz1iZFNko0g2z-Yx prSJqPKl36e2dQkU_k_BItPPO-wfTFZBUHpzct5GMxxgDmEhmO61D7ze_khn2A==> Visit our website!!<http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?e=001orRSjz-UohZZR2OUGf FJSrX6WSu7e6U6lSwB8OiTDgZ13xPbaVu2nzwMPYaznlEjZcn-lofVntzSdP63yYn_XI1h3ASUh S0mj4WrAl4Fy6Sk2vJIuutPVj5e-Drv4_PDNcf5TDbHij8mnZEZrBm155uliWdlzk7IviN26e_H JsT-fH76TAo7V_qG2tG3ziisYrQFT4ASc87hJ3mFYrsShrkYa5a2G3ffVTFjo7E9-1ZPWShztLZ YmnWXA-67ZQRN0kFLQ2ZqKplrHjjb0I3ipA==> With the recent news that Dillsburg Aeroplane Works is going out of busi ness, Wicks is happy to annnounce that we are stocked full of 4130 tubing. We have in recent months stocked up on bulk inventory to keep our prices lo w. We offer discounts on multiple lengths. And can ship most orders same da y. Also, all of our tubing is stored inside in a climate controlled warehou se. [http://ih.constantcontact.com/fs123/1105202523133/img/59.jpg] Click to order<http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?e=001orRSjz-Uohb_zYJrUAW60HSld98 bhE7qlaljNoiJmvxpciCfySofdAluPWDaknLGUnnptyEv7uC69twdm5r3BOoUCKYyIpKHQv9zJY -lzHRPTHo4ujiZJzVSr9FKmlKuquzIOKsZvyIRq63XHcgx_192AzlaXcvKK3hpX8GKuo2t3136j a2SDPg_BMJh6TUHEIObO4zQM2aomvq87owD_mHrE5NY0q4DUXwgMkP-TDmEfKEEotbLVdKTITb2 _4sV573X5FjOSbugJbu-2NXr-eFLsbk9WFHC1aixe4tnh0MXvZRj9Jsdrg==> [http://img.constantcontact.com/letters/images/1101093164665/news-black-acc ent.png] [http://img.constantcontact.com/letters/images/1101116784221/yvanle_TR6_Out erShadowBLV2.png] [http://img.constantcontact.com/letters/images/1101116784221/yvanle_TR6_Out erShadowBRV2.png] Forward this email<http://ui.constantcontact.com/sa/fwtf.jsp?llr=64kitjfa b&m=1105202523133&ea=michael.d.cuy%40grc.nasa.gov&a=1113286180735> [http://img.constantcontact.com/letters/images/SafeUnsubscribe_Footer_Logo_ New.png]<http://visitor.constantcontact.com/do?p=un&mse=001l3cLBhqUqd9K CXG5gQgAWJv0PNgBfZMswlxfQVVIVDM%3D&t=001u_uCzaNsw7QHS-dnLY_iIA%3D%3D&llr =64kitjfab> [http://img.constantcontact.com/letters/images/CC_Footer_Logo_New.png] ://www.constantcontact.com/index.jsp?cc=TEM_RFR_003> This email was sent to michael.d.cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov by wicksaircraft(at)gmail.com | Update Profile/Email Address<http://visitor.constantcontact.com/do?p=oo&m se=001l3cLBhqUqd9KCXG5gQgAWJv0PNgBfZMswlxfQVVIVDM%3D&t=001u_uCzaNsw7QHS -dnLY_iIA%3D%3D&llr=64kitjfab> | Instant removal with SafeUnsubscribe (tm) | Privacy Policy<http://ui.constantcontact.com/roving/CCPrivacyPolicy. jsp>. Wicks Aircraft Supply | 410 Pine Street | Highland | IL | 62249 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Wicks 4130 Dillsburg
From: Jack <jack(at)textors.com>
Date: May 03, 2013
I've been very happy with Wicks... Sent from my iPad Jack Textor On May 3, 2013, at 9:28 AM, "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LL C]" wrote: > http://www.wicksaircraft.com/index.html > > Of possible interest. I know Wicks probably isn=99t the most pop ular aircraft supply house anymore but to me they > were the best when building my Piet. ASSCO (Aircraft Spruce & Specialt y Co.) was, by comparison, in my years of building > much less-aircraft knowledgeable, messed up more orders and had more back -ordered items than Wicks ever had. I don=99t know > if that is true today but I was much happier with my dealings with Wicks o ver Aircraft Spruce in every way. > > MikeC. > > > > From: Wicks Aircraft Supply [mailto:wicksaircraft(at)gmail.com] > Sent: Friday, May 03, 2013 10:25 AM > To: Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC] > Subject: 4130 Dillsburg > > > > > > > Visit our website!! > > With the recent news that Dillsburg Aeroplane Works is going out of bus iness, Wicks is happy to annnounce that we are stocked full of 4130 tubing. W e have in recent months stocked up on bulk inventory to keep our prices low. We offer discounts on multiple lengths. And can ship most orders same day. A lso, all of our tubing is stored inside in a climate controlled warehouse. > > > Click to order > > > > > > > > > > Forward this email > > > This email was sent to michael.d.cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov by wicksaircraft(at)gmail.c om | > Update Profile/Email Address | Instant removal with SafeUnsubscribe=84=A2 | Privacy Policy. > Wicks Aircraft Supply | 410 Pine Street | Highland | IL | 62249 > > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick N" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: Wicks 4130 Dillsburg
Date: May 03, 2013
Hey Mike I agree completely. Scott Wick has been very good to Piet builders over the years, he donates all of the wng cap strips for our workshop at SNF and other stuff we use. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC] To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, May 03, 2013 9:28 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wicks 4130 Dillsburg http://www.wicksaircraft.com/index.html Of possible interest. I know Wicks probably isn't the most popular aircraft supply house anymore but to me they were the best when building my Piet. ASSCO (Aircraft Spruce & Specialty Co.) was, by comparison, in my years of building much less-aircraft knowledgeable, messed up more orders and had more back-ordered items than Wicks ever had. I don't know if that is true today but I was much happier with my dealings with Wicks over Aircraft Spruce in every way. MikeC. From: Wicks Aircraft Supply [mailto:wicksaircraft(at)gmail.com] Sent: Friday, May 03, 2013 10:25 AM To: Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC] Subject: 4130 Dillsburg Visit our website!! With the recent news that Dillsburg Aeroplane Works is going out of business, Wicks is happy to annnounce that we are stocked full of 4130 tubing. We have in recent months stocked up on bulk inventory to keep our prices low. We offer discounts on multiple lengths. And can ship most orders same day. Also, all of our tubing is stored inside in a climate controlled warehouse. Click to order Forward this email This email was sent to michael.d.cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov by wicksaircraft(at)gmail.com | Update Profile/Email Address | Instant removal with SafeUnsubscribeT | Privacy Policy. Wicks Aircraft Supply | 410 Pine Street | Highland | IL | 62249 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 03, 2013
Subject: Re: Wicks 4130 Dillsburg
From: DandD Boyd <dndboyd2(at)gmail.com>
I got most of my building supplies from Wicks. Fast, friendly, helpful over the phone. Dave Boyd Champaign, IL NX7710J On Fri, May 3, 2013 at 9:58 AM, Dick N wrote: > ** > Hey Mike > I agree completely. Scott Wick has been very good to Piet builders over > the years, he donates all of the wng cap strips for our workshop at SNF a nd > other stuff we use. > Dick N. > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]<michael.d.cuy@n asa.gov> > *To:* pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > *Sent:* Friday, May 03, 2013 9:28 AM > *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: Wicks 4130 Dillsburg > > http://www.wicksaircraft.com/index.html**** > > ** ** > > Of possible interest. I know Wicks probably isn=92t the most popular > aircraft supply house anymore but to me they**** > > were the best when building my Piet. ASSCO (Aircraft Spruce & > Specialty Co.) was, by comparison, in my years of building**** > > much less-aircraft knowledgeable, messed up more orders and had more > back-ordered items than Wicks ever had. I don=92t know**** > > if that is true today but I was much happier with my dealings with Wicks > over Aircraft Spruce in every way. **** > > ** ** > > MikeC.**** > > ** ** > > ** ** > > ** ** > > *From:* Wicks Aircraft Supply [mailto:wicksaircraft(at)gmail.com] > *Sent:* Friday, May 03, 2013 10:25 AM > *To:* Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC] > *Subject:* 4130 Dillsburg**** > > ** ** > > **** > > **** > > * * > > [image: LOGOLargeBlackYellow]<http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?e=001orRSjz-Uoh ai-ILZyCa0q5UEAe8a2-UuhZ_zArvJdrxM_GjsrXV6313_sZbnVBMue4MUt4KDf37T7e-LIkAvi zNP5y28B3Pgm5ngmohgjkYJU8xmHV9nEWo6qlgBaqCYHPvFT3JqpMpvOwhHkD9KVJT7kU6NknFA Tuhwg4IlZLwcIE153myvd5yZIRTWhdk7Vhdsyc4fr1WHUt6vKQT0lUXOJrsutH9MRg2VK8FEgjh fMxvjT4Y1RIb64T7DVb5bB3Ph-7Josz1iZFNko0g2z-YxprSJqPKl36e2dQkU_k_BItPPO-wfTF ZBUHpzct5GMxxgDmEhmO61D7ze_khn2A==> > **** > > **** > > *Visit our website!!*<http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?e=001orRSjz-UohZZR2 OUGfFJSrX6WSu7e6U6lSwB8OiTDgZ13xPbaVu2nzwMPYaznlEjZcn-lofVntzSdP63yYn_XI1h3 ASUhS0mj4WrAl4Fy6Sk2vJIuutPVj5e-Drv4_PDNcf5TDbHij8mnZEZrBm155uliWdlzk7IviN2 6e_HJsT-fH76TAo7V_qG2tG3ziisYrQFT4ASc87hJ3mFYrsShrkYa5a2G3ffVTFjo7E9-1ZPWSh ztLZYmnWXA-67ZQRN0kFLQ2ZqKplrHjjb0I3ipA==> > **** > > **** > > * With the recent news that Dillsburg Aeroplane Works is going out of > business, Wicks is happy to annnounce that we are stocked full of 4130 > tubing. We have in recent months stocked up on bulk inventory to keep our > prices low. We offer discounts on multiple lengths. And can ship most > orders same day. Also, all of our tubing is stored inside in a climate > controlled warehouse. ***** > > ** ** > > [image: 4130 tube] **** > > * * **** > > ** ** > > *Click to order<http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?e=001orRSjz-Uohb_zYJrUAW60HSl d98bhE7qlaljNoiJmvxpciCfySofdAluPWDaknLGUnnptyEv7uC69twdm5r3BOoUCKYyIpKHQv9 zJY-lzHRPTHo4ujiZJzVSr9FKmlKuquzIOKsZvyIRq63XHcgx_192AzlaXcvKK3hpX8GKuo2t31 36ja2SDPg_BMJh6TUHEIObO4zQM2aomvq87owD_mHrE5NY0q4DUXwgMkP-TDmEfKEEotbLVdKTI Tb2_4sV573X5FjOSbugJbu-2NXr-eFLsbk9WFHC1aixe4tnh0MXvZRj9Jsdrg==> > * **** > > **** > > **** > > **** > > **** > > **** > > **** > > **** > > **** > > **** > > ** ** > > *Forward this email<http://ui.constantcontact.com/sa/fwtf.jsp?llr=64kit jfab&m=1105202523133&ea=michael.d.cuy%40grc.nasa.gov&a=1113286180735> > * > > > <http://visitor.constantcontact.com/do?p=un&mse=001l3cLBhqUqd9KCXG5gQ gAWJv0PNgBfZMswlxfQVVIVDM%3D&t=001u_uCzaNsw7QHS-dnLY_iIA%3D%3D&llr=64ki tjfab> > **** > > <http://www.constantcontact.com/index.jsp?cc=TEM_RFR_003>**** > > This email was sent to michael.d.cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov by > wicksaircraft(at)gmail.com | **** > > Update Profile/Email Address<http://visitor.constantcontact.com/do?p=oo &mse=001l3cLBhqUqd9KCXG5gQgAWJv0PNgBfZMswlxfQVVIVDM%3D&t=001u_uCzaNsw7Q HS-dnLY_iIA%3D%3D&llr=64kitjfab> > | Instant removal with SafeUnsubscribe<http://visitor.constantcontact.com /do?p=un&mse=001l3cLBhqUqd9KCXG5gQgAWJv0PNgBfZMswlxfQVVIVDM%3D&t=001u _uCzaNsw7QHS-dnLY_iIA%3D%3D&llr=64kitjfab>=99 > | Privacy Policy<http://ui.constantcontact.com/roving/CCPrivacyPolicy.jsp > > .**** > > Wicks Aircraft Supply | 410 Pine Street | Highland | IL | 62249**** > > ** ** > > * > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c * > > * > =========== =========== =========== =========== > * > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 03, 2013
From: shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Wicks 4130 Dillsburg
The only problem I had with Dillsburg was that some of his tubing was from China.=C2- It has a dull matte finish compared to the "good" stuff which has the shiny finish.=C2-He told me when I ordered a few years back that he got it cheap because he got it right off the boat, straight from the mil ls over seas.=C2- The tubing seems to be ok but I haven't put it in servi ce yet, hope it doesn't crack on me.=C2- I have never had tubing from A.S .S. or Wicks with the matte finish, it is always shiny and black. =C2- For what it's worth, =C2- Shad --- On Fri, 5/3/13, Jack wrote: From: Jack <jack(at)textors.com> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wicks 4130 Dillsburg Date: Friday, May 3, 2013, 10:51 AM I've been very happy with Wicks... Sent from my iPad Jack Textor On May 3, 2013, at 9:28 AM, "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, L LC]" wrote: http://www.wicksaircraft.com/index.html =C2- Of possible interest.=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- I know Wicks probably isn =99t the most popular aircraft supply house anymore but to me they were the best when building my Piet.=C2- =C2-=C2-ASSCO=C2- (Aircraf t Spruce & Specialty Co.) was, by comparison, in my years of building much less-aircraft knowledgeable,=C2- messed up more orders and had more back-ordered items than Wicks ever had.=C2-=C2- I don=99t know if that is true today but I was much happier with my dealings with Wicks ov er Aircraft Spruce in every way. =C2- MikeC. =C2- =C2- =C2- From: Wicks Aircraft Supply [mailto:wicksaircraft(at)gmail.com] Sent: Friday, May 03, 2013 10:25 AM Subject: 4130 Dillsburg =C2- =C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- =C2- =C2-=C2-=C2- Visit our website!! =C2-=C2-=C2- =C2-=C2- With the recent news that Dillsburg Aeroplane Works=C2-is go ing out of business, Wicks is happy to annnounce that we are stocked full o f 4130 tubing. We have in recent months stocked up on bulk inventory to kee p our prices low. We offer discounts on multiple lengths. And can ship most orders same day. Also, all of our tubing is stored inside in a climate con trolled warehouse. =C2- =C2-=C2-=C2- =C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- =C2- Click to order=C2-=C2- =C2-=C2- =C2-=C2- =C2-=C2- =C2-=C2- =C2- Forward this email This email was sent to michael.d.cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov by wicksaircraft(at)gmail.co m | =C2- Update Profile/Email Address | Instant removal with SafeUnsubscribe=84 =A2 | Privacy Policy. Wicks Aircraft Supply | 410 Pine Street | Highland | IL | 62249 =C2- ========= >http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List ========= cs.com ========= matronics.com/contribution ========= ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dortch, Steven D MAJ MIL USA NGB" <steven.d.dortch(at)us.army.mil>
Date: May 03, 2013
Subject: Re: A Pietenpol named Mr. Sam
UNCLASSIFIED Clif, How tall are you? I am 5ft 7.5 in. I am build normally, not with a clownishly short torso ;+) I am looking at slightly modifying my plane to have a similar setup to yours. BTW Great pictures, they tell me a lot. Blue Skies, Steve D On 04/26/13, Clif Dawson wrote: > Being a bit short torso'd,well, maybe short all over. > I was 5' 8 1/2" when younger but now seem to > have lost an inch of that somehow. Anyway,this > means that my shoulders don't stick up above > the turtle deck. THAT means my shoulder > harness can safely route through the top edge of > the seat back. I have cabled the two straps into > one that goes back to the tail post. The rod that > fits is 1\2" dia 6061-T6 alum. The black bits on the > tail rod are rubber tube lengths to keep the cable > centered. > If you need them higher and also don't want to cut > into the back then possibly my first idea might > give you a start. That's the drawing. The bumps > were going to be fabric covered balsa. > > Clif > > >I've seen several Piets and they do NOT have shoulder harnesses - just seat belts. Does anyone use a 4-point harness in the back seat or is it tradition to use only a lap belt? > since the seat back is built-in to the frame - there will have to be some serious wood cutting to install the shoulder harness. > . > >Jim McWhorter > >N687MB (New Owner) > >Culpeper, VA KCJR UNCLASSIFIED ________________________________________________________________________________
From: airlion2(at)gmail.com
Subject: Logbook
Date: May 03, 2013
Hey all. What kind of notations do I have to log in my logbook after my complete rebuild. Do I just treat it as an annual and note the repairs made ? See you in Brodhead. Cheers Gardiner ( airlion2(at)gmail.com > > > -------- > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399833#399833 > > > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_2960_205.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_2959_229.jpg > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Logbook
From: Jack <jack(at)textors.com>
Date: May 03, 2013
Gardiner and others the last few days I have not been able to access the attachment links, I receive file not found 404... Happening to others? Sent from my iPad Jack Textor On May 3, 2013, at 7:13 PM, airlion2(at)gmail.com wrote: > > Hey all. What kind of notations do I have to log in my logbook after my complete rebuild. Do I just treat it as an annual and note the repairs made ? See you in Brodhead. Cheers Gardiner ( airlion2(at)gmail.com > > > > > > >> >> -------- >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399833#399833 >> >> >> >> >> Attachments: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_2960_205.jpg >> http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_2959_229.jpg > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Logbook
From: Gary Boothe <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Date: May 03, 2013
Me too. Sent from my iPhone On May 3, 2013, at 5:24 PM, Jack wrote: > > Gardiner and others the last few days I have not been able to access the attachment links, I receive file not found 404... Happening to others? > > Sent from my iPad > Jack Textor > > On May 3, 2013, at 7:13 PM, airlion2(at)gmail.com wrote: > >> >> Hey all. What kind of notations do I have to log in my logbook after my complete rebuild. Do I just treat it as an annual and note the repairs made ? See you in Brodhead. Cheers Gardiner ( airlion2(at)gmail.com >> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >>> -------- >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Read this topic online here: >>> >>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399833#399833 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Attachments: >>> >>> http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_2960_205.jpg >>> http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_2959_229.jpg > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Logbook
From: "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com>
Date: May 03, 2013
As far as I know, that's all that is required. Didn't change anything from original did ya, like different motor or something? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399926#399926 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <jack(at)bedfordlandings.com>
Subject: Logbook
Date: May 03, 2013
That's all you need to do, Gardiner.Since enough time has elapsed to require another Condition Inspection, do the inspection noting all the repairs made. Sign it off as a normal inspection (you do have the Repairman's Certificate, don't you?). Jack Phillips NX899JP Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of airlion2(at)gmail.com Sent: Friday, May 03, 2013 8:13 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Logbook Hey all. What kind of notations do I have to log in my logbook after my complete rebuild. Do I just treat it as an annual and note the repairs made ? See you in Brodhead. Cheers Gardiner ( airlion2(at)gmail.com > > > -------- > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399833#399833 > > > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_2960_205.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_2959_229.jpg > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Clif Dawson" <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: A Pietenpol named Mr. Sam
Date: May 03, 2013
Good Lord! That was my last hieght assesment also. I appear tobe following in my family's footsteps. My Dad was 5' 11 in his heyday but by 86 was 5 ' 5". I'm going to need a thick cushion down the road!! Clif More pics here; http://www.clifdawson.ca/ > UNCLASSIFIED > Clif, How tall are you? I am 5ft 7.5 in. I am build normally, not with a > clownishly short torso ;+) I am looking at slightly modifying my plane to > have a similar setup to yours. > > BTW Great pictures, they tell me a lot. > > Blue Skies, > Steve D > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Gear Springs on eBay
From: Jack <jack(at)textors.com>
Date: May 04, 2013
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=&_sacat=0&_from=R40 Sent from my iPad Jack Textor ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Logbook
From: airlion2(at)gmail.com
Date: May 04, 2013
Thanks guys. The only thing I changed was the paint scheme. Gardiner Sent from my iPad On May 3, 2013, at 9:03 PM, "tools" wrote: > > As far as I know, that's all that is required. Didn't change anything from original did ya, like different motor or something? > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399926#399926 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: fuselage length?
From: "rorichts" <stolflite(at)gmail.com>
Date: May 04, 2013
When the fuselage length is discussed is that from the firewall or considered from prop hub to aft end of fuselage? Thanks Rich Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399948#399948 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "C N Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net>
Subject: Re: fuselage length?
Date: May 04, 2013
I think most of us refer to fuselage length as that that's shown on the plans -- from the outside of the front vertical menber of the frame to the rear of the tail post. My plans show the short fuselage as 163 inches in the layout for the side of the fuselage. The long fuselage, as shown on the supplementary plans, is 172-3/8 inches. When you add up the dimensions at the top of the side view of the original plans you come up with the 163 mentioned above. On the top plan and the bottom plan when you add up the dimentions it comes up 162-1/2. I don't think that 1/2 inch makes all that much difference. I made my fuselage the 172-3/8 per the supplemantary drawing. In the long fuselage you get 2 inches extra depth in the pilot's compartment. (Fielder's choice) Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "rorichts" <stolflite(at)gmail.com> Sent: Saturday, May 04, 2013 11:13 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: fuselage length? > > When the fuselage length is discussed is that from the firewall or > considered from prop hub to aft end of fuselage? > Thanks > Rich > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399948#399948 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: fuselage length?
From: "rorichts" <stolflite(at)gmail.com>
Date: May 04, 2013
Thanks Chuck, very helpful. Just trying to do some weight balance considering my size and engine options Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399960#399960 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Gear Springs on eBay
From: "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com>
Date: May 04, 2013
Jack, I can't get your link to work, either on my iPhone or my laptop. Can you please resend? Thanks. -------- Semper Fi, Terry Hand Athens, GA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399962#399962 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Gear Springs on eBay
From: Jack <jack(at)textors.com>
Date: May 04, 2013
Terry I tried it too, looks like they sold... Sent from my iPad Jack Textor On May 4, 2013, at 4:45 PM, "jarheadpilot82" wrote: > > Jack, > > I can't get your link to work, either on my iPhone or my laptop. Can you please resend? > > Thanks. > > -------- > Semper Fi, > > Terry Hand > Athens, GA > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399962#399962 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "C N Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net>
Subject: Re: fuselage length?
Date: May 04, 2013
Considering Wt & Bal, William Wynne has some excellent articles in the Pietenpol Assoc. newsletters. The issues are Jan 1, 2011, Apr 1, 2011, Jul 1, 2011, and Jul 1, 2012. If you don't have those issues I'm sure you could get copies from Doc Moser, BPA, PO Box 3501, Oshkosh, WI 54903. Good Luck, Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "rorichts" <stolflite(at)gmail.com> Sent: Saturday, May 04, 2013 3:43 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: fuselage length? > > Thanks Chuck, very helpful. Just trying to do some weight balance > considering my size and engine options > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399960#399960 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Gear Springs on eBay
From: "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com>
Date: May 04, 2013
That would be a good reason. [Laughing] Must have been a good deal. -------- Semper Fi, Terry Hand Athens, GA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399975#399975 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: fuselage length?
From: "rorichts" <stolflite(at)gmail.com>
Date: May 04, 2013
Thanks Very Helpful Much Appreciated Rich Sent From droid Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399979#399979 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: I Forgot to Add Proof
From: "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com>
Date: May 05, 2013
Those are the dastardly 613.5 Riblett wing ribs. Good eye. -------- Semper Fi, Terry Hand Athens, GA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399985#399985 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Date: May 05, 2013
Subject: Re: I Forgot to Add Proof
In a message dated 5/5/2013 5:56:33 A.M. Central Daylight Time, jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com writes: --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "jarheadpilot82" Those are the dastardly 613.5 Riblett wing ribs. Good eye. -------- Semper Fi, Terry Hand Athens, GA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399985#399985 Finished my jig. They are pure Minnesota, oatmeal, apple pie, Pietenpol designed and signed rib specs for 3/4 spars, 3/8 X 1/4 select fir cap strip, for three piece wing. The kit will include 31 ribs and 1/8 plywood for 8 surfaces of aileron end ribs and related wing ribs. Wanted to furnish plywood for butt ribs but freight costs prohibits this. Avoid 1/4 marine plywood for these butt ribs as they are too heavy. I would even consider using 1/16 on top and bottom of center section. Think weight each time you add to your project. I think my W&B was 634 w/metal McCauley prop about 21 lbs. Wood prop was near 9 lbs which brought the project down to about 621. It must jump off the ground now with the 75 engine and pilot Oscar who isn't much fatter than a fart in a whirlwind. Just remember to build light. Lots of places for lightning holes Corky ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Riblett wing volume
From: "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Date: May 05, 2013
By the way, just looking at Terry's wing ribs, I am reminded about the possibilities of putting fuel tanks in the wings now. With the relatively flat Pietenpol wing (less than 5" tall), it's tough to get much volume in a wing bay. Curious to know how much the typical centersection fuel tank holds when constructed to Air Camper plans. I've heard that it is around 10 gallons, maybe a little less. The Riblett 613.5 should be about 8" tall (13.5% of 60" =8.1"). With rib spacing of 11" and spars about 27" apart, a Riblett wing bay should have a volume of around 8 gallons. Putting a wing tank on each side would provide 16 gallons and essentially all of it would be usable, unlike the last 2 or 2.5 gallons of fuel in 41CC, which are just too low in the tank to flow reliably, especially in anything other than straight and level flight. With the fuel in the wings, gravity flow is much better, and it moves the fuel away from the cockpit. That can be a big plus, as William Wynne found out the hard way when his plane crashed and fuel in the cockpit burned him badly and destroyed the airplane. Another plus is that the CG will not shift as fuel is used up in wing tanks. And you can keep the centersection for storing things. And you can get to the rear of the firewall easier. And... and... -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399995#399995 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Riblett wing volume
From: airlion2(at)gmail.com
Date: May 05, 2013
I have a 36in center section with the fuel tank inside and an outlet at the front and at the back.It holds 20.5 gallons and with my corvair power I figure 3.5 hrs. cheers, Gardiner Sent from my iPad On May 5, 2013, at 1:32 PM, "taildrags" wrote: > > By the way, just looking at Terry's wing ribs, I am reminded about the possibilities of putting fuel tanks in the wings now. With the relatively flat Pietenpol wing (less than 5" tall), it's tough to get much volume in a wing bay. Curious to know how much the typical centersection fuel tank holds when constructed to Air Camper plans. I've heard that it is around 10 gallons, maybe a little less. > > The Riblett 613.5 should be about 8" tall (13.5% of 60" =8.1"). With rib spacing of 11" and spars about 27" apart, a Riblett wing bay should have a volume of around 8 gallons. Putting a wing tank on each side would provide 16 gallons and essentially all of it would be usable, unlike the last 2 or 2.5 gallons of fuel in 41CC, which are just too low in the tank to flow reliably, especially in anything other than straight and level flight. With the fuel in the wings, gravity flow is much better, and it moves the fuel away from the cockpit. That can be a big plus, as William Wynne found out the hard way when his plane crashed and fuel in the cockpit burned him badly and destroyed the airplane. Another plus is that the CG will not shift as fuel is used up in wing tanks. And you can keep the centersection for storing things. And you can get to the rear of the firewall easier. And... and... > > -------- > Oscar Zuniga > Medford, OR > Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" > A75 power > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399995#399995 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Craig Aho <soar561(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Riblett wing volume
Date: May 05, 2013
So is the concensus that most Piet builders would not change to the 4412 or Riblett? > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Riblett wing volume > From: airlion2(at)gmail.com > Date: Sun=2C 5 May 2013 15:06:12 -0400 > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > > > I have a 36in center section with the fuel tank inside and an outlet at the front and at the back.It holds 20.5 gallons and with my corvair power I figure 3.5 hrs. cheers=2C Gardiner > > Sent from my iPad > > On May 5=2C 2013=2C at 1:32 PM=2C "taildrags" wro te: > m> > > > > By the way=2C just looking at Terry's wing ribs=2C I am reminded about the possibilities of putting fuel tanks in the wings now. With the relativ ely flat Pietenpol wing (less than 5" tall)=2C it's tough to get much volum e in a wing bay. Curious to know how much the typical centersection fuel t ank holds when constructed to Air Camper plans. I've heard that it is arou nd 10 gallons=2C maybe a little less. > > > > The Riblett 613.5 should be about 8" tall (13.5% of 60" =8.1"). With rib spacing of 11" and spars about 27" apart=2C a Riblett wing bay should have a volume of around 8 gallons. Putting a wing tank on each side would provide 16 gallons and essentially all of it would be usable=2C unlike the last 2 or 2.5 gallons of fuel in 41CC=2C which are just too low in the tank to flow reliably=2C especially in anything other than straight and level f light. With the fuel in the wings=2C gravity flow is much better=2C and it moves the fuel away from the cockpit. That can be a big plus=2C as Willia m Wynne found out the hard way when his plane crashed and fuel in the cockp it burned him badly and destroyed the airplane. Another plus is that the C G will not shift as fuel is used up in wing tanks. And you can keep the ce ntersection for storing things. And you can get to the rear of the firewal l easier. And... and... > > > > -------- > > Oscar Zuniga > > Medford=2C OR > > Air Camper NX41CC "=3BScout"=3B > > A75 power > > > > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399995#399995 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 05, 2013
Subject: Re: Riblett wing volume
From: Ken Bickers <bickers.ken(at)gmail.com>
Oscar, I built a center section wing tank. The center section is the width called out in the plans and the wing ribs are Pietenpol. I've measured the fuel capacity of my tank at 11 gallons, give or take a few ounces. I don't know (and won't, for at least a few months) what the usable amount is. Cheers, Ken On Sun, May 5, 2013 at 1:31 PM, Craig Aho wrote: > So is the concensus that most Piet builders would not change to the 4412 > or Riblett? > > > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Riblett wing volume > > From: airlion2(at)gmail.com > > Date: Sun, 5 May 2013 15:06:12 -0400 > > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > > > > > > > I have a 36in center section with the fuel tank inside and an outlet at > the front and at the back.It holds 20.5 gallons and with my corvair power I > figure 3.5 hrs. cheers, Gardiner > > > > Sent from my iPad > > > > On May 5, 2013, at 1:32 PM, "taildrags" wrote: > > > taildrags(at)hotmail.com> > > > > > > By the way, just looking at Terry's wing ribs, I am reminded about the > possibilities of putting fuel tanks in the wings now. With the relatively > flat Pietenpol wing (less than 5" tall), it's tough to get much volume in a > wing bay. Curious to know how much the typical centersection fuel tank > holds when constructed to Air Camper plans. I've heard that it is around 10 > gallons, maybe a little less. > > > > > > The Riblett 613.5 should be about 8" tall (13.5% of 60" =8.1"). With > rib spacing of 11" and spars about 27" apart, a Riblett wing bay should > have a volume of around 8 gallons. Putting a wing tank on each side would > provide 16 gallons and essentially all of it would be usable, unlike the > last 2 or 2.5 gallons of fuel in 41CC, which are just too low in the tank > to flow reliably, especially in anything other than straight and level > flight. With the fuel in the wings, gravity flow is much better, and it > moves the fuel away from the cockpit. That can be a big plus, as William > Wynne found out the hard way when his plane crashed and fuel in the cockpit > burned him badly and destroyed the airplane. Another plus is that the CG > will not shift as fuel is used up in wing tanks. And you can keep the > centersection for storing things. And you can get to the rear of the > firewall easier. And... and... > > > > > > -------- > > > Oscar Zuniga > > > Medford, OR > > > Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" > > > A75 power > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > > > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399995#399995 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >================ > > > > > > > > * > > * > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Date: May 05, 2013
Subject: About to make to First Rib
Pieters, I'm about to get started. Thought I would make 1 complete rib tomorrow and in event I'm not in any position to make any more after Tuesday you can put this one in the Piet museum. Corky ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Riblett wing volume
Date: May 05, 2013
To be clear, if you read back about WW's accident, it was with a wing tank...a wing tank without flexible fuel lines running to the fuselage. Thus his constant reminder to avoid solid lines where the wing may shift in an accident. Also, he notes that some Pietenpols, with the slant brace struts, have a poor attachment design at the wing fitting, which appears to be fragile, at best. He advises a bracket that will not let the strut shift from one side to another, or otherwise break, as a wing may try to shift forward in a nose-over or crash. FYI, my center section fuel tank, in an as-designed Pietenpol wing, holds 16 gallons, by raising the top a bit. Gary Boothe NX308MB -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of taildrags Sent: Sunday, May 05, 2013 10:32 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Riblett wing volume --> By the way, just looking at Terry's wing ribs, I am reminded about the possibilities of putting fuel tanks in the wings now. With the relatively flat Pietenpol wing (less than 5" tall), it's tough to get much volume in a wing bay. Curious to know how much the typical centersection fuel tank holds when constructed to Air Camper plans. I've heard that it is around 10 gallons, maybe a little less. The Riblett 613.5 should be about 8" tall (13.5% of 60" =8.1"). With rib spacing of 11" and spars about 27" apart, a Riblett wing bay should have a volume of around 8 gallons. Putting a wing tank on each side would provide 16 gallons and essentially all of it would be usable, unlike the last 2 or 2.5 gallons of fuel in 41CC, which are just too low in the tank to flow reliably, especially in anything other than straight and level flight. With the fuel in the wings, gravity flow is much better, and it moves the fuel away from the cockpit. That can be a big plus, as William Wynne found out the hard way when his plane crashed and fuel in the cockpit burned him badly and destroyed the airplane. Another plus is that the CG will not shift as fuel is used up in wing tanks. And you can keep the centersection for storing things. And you can get to the rear of the firewall easier. And... and... -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399995#399995 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Riblett wing volume
From: "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Date: May 05, 2013
Very good information from everyone who responded! Good data points for builders who are thinking about their fuel system arrangement, especially. I really like the "DeHavilland hump" that some of the builders have used on their centersection to get more fuel capacity (or a larger storage area). It works very well if you're building period appearance into your Air Camper. We've already discussed the downsides to having the fuel in the centersection (getting up there to fill the tank, for example), so I won't go there. We've also discussed easy options for fuel level indication for the centersection or wing tank, with the Larry Williams "Stearman glass" setup being the one I like best. Thanks for the comments from everyone, and thanks to Terry for posting the pictures of his stack of ribs to start the discussion on fuel tanks and capacities in this regard. Now we have to ask Terry the question, did he pull the nails or staples from his gussets after the glue dried, or did he leave them in? This one always seems to set off a new discussion, usually about steel nails or staples rusting if they are left in the wood, extra weight if they are left in the wood, etc. etc. -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=400027#400027 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Riblett wing volume
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
Date: May 06, 2013
Wow Craig...you have unleashed the hornet's nest once again. The answer is yes, I believe, that most builders would not change to a non-Pietenpol airf oil. The recent flight test info from P.F. and Don from Barnwell S.C. would indicate no reason to do so, unless of course you want to increase your ra nge to a point of wearing calluses on your behind and stretching your bladd er to the ultimate limit between fuel stops. This opinion does not extend t o the boys that have elected to install large engines (some for good reason s). But for an airplane flying in the flatlands, not worried about lifting heavy loads or operating from short runways, the normal fuel tank is as muc h fuel as you need. My Ford burns maybe 4 gal per hour, so with 11 gallons I can sit there for 2 hours with a fine reserve left. Two hours in a Piet i s a long time, even with a comfy seat. (Ducking for cover) Dan Helsper Puryear, TN -----Original Message----- From: Craig Aho <soar561(at)hotmail.com> Sent: Sun, May 5, 2013 2:32 pm Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Riblett wing volume So is the concensus that most Piet builders would not change to the 4412 or Riblett? > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Riblett wing volume > From: airlion2(at)gmail.com > Date: Sun, 5 May 2013 15:06:12 -0400 > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > > > I have a 36in center section with the fuel tank inside and an outlet at the front and at the back.It holds 20.5 gallons and with my corvair power I figure 3.5 hrs. cheers, Gardiner > > Sent from my iPad > > On May 5, 2013, at 1:32 PM, "taildrags" wrote: > m> > > > > By the way, just looking at Terry's wing ribs, I am reminded about the possibilities of putting fuel tanks in the wings now. With the relatively flat Pietenpol wing (less than 5" tall), it's tough to get much volume in a wing bay. Curious to know how much the typical centersection fuel tank ho lds when constructed to Air Camper plans. I've heard that it is around 10 gallons, maybe a little less. > > > > The Riblett 613.5 should be about 8" tall (13.5% of 60" =8.1"). With rib spacing of 11" and spars about 27" apart, a Riblett wing bay should ha ve a volume of around 8 gallons. Putting a wing tank on each side would pr ovide 16 gallons and essentially all of it would be usable, unlike the last 2 or 2.5 gallons of fuel in 41CC, which are just too low in the tank to fl ow reliably, especially in anything other than straight and level flight. With the fuel in the wings, gravity flow is much better, and it moves the f uel away from the cockpit. That can be a big plus, as William Wynne found out the hard way when his plane crashed and fuel in the cockpit burned him badly and destroyed the airplane. Another plus is that the CG will not shi ft as fuel is used up in wing tanks. And you can keep the centersection fo r storing things. And you can get to the rear of the firewall easier. And ... and... > > > > -------- > > Oscar Zuniga > > Medford, OR > > Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" > > A75 power > > > > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399995#399995 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >================ > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Craig Aho <soar561(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Riblett wing volume
Date: May 06, 2013
Hello Dan=2C Sorry I am an long time RC Sailplane flyer and in that arena t here is always a discussion on low renolds numbers and airfoils for better performance and wind tunnel data from Selig=2C Donavan=2C Eppler and the la test Dr. Drela. So I think it is a bit of an adiction for me. Also I dont r emember there being much of a discussion back in 1993 when I started buildi ng my first Air Camper. Anyway I was just curious. Thanks for the reply. C raig To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Riblett wing volume From: helspersew(at)aol.com Date: Mon=2C 6 May 2013 07:04:33 -0400 =0A Wow Craig...you have unleashed the hornet's nest once again. The answer is yes=2C I believe=2C that most builders would not change to a non-Pietenpol airfoil. The recent flight test info from P.F. and Don from Barnwell S.C. w ould indicate no reason to do so=2C unless of course you want to increase y our range to a point of wearing calluses on your behind and stretching your bladder to the ultimate limit between fuel stops. This opinion does not ex tend to the boys that have elected to install large engines (some for good reasons). But for an airplane flying in the flatlands=2C not worried about lifting heavy loads or operating from short runways=2C the normal fuel tank is as much fuel as you need. My Ford burns maybe 4 gal per hour=2C so with 11 gallons I can sit there for 2 hours with a fine reserve left. Two hours in a Piet is a long time=2C even with a comfy seat.=0A =0A =0A =0A (Ducking for cover)=0A =0A =0A =0A Dan Helsper=0A =0A Puryear=2C TN=0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A -----Original Message----- =0A From: Craig Aho <soar561(at)hotmail.com> =0A =0A Sent: Sun=2C May 5=2C 2013 2:32 pm =0A Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Riblett wing volume =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A So is the concensus that most Piet builders would not change to the 4412 or Riblett? =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Riblett wing volume =0A > From: airlion2(at)gmail.com =0A > Date: Sun=2C 5 May 2013 15:06:12 -0400 =0A > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com =0A > =0A =0A > =0A > I have a 36in center section with the fuel tank inside and an outlet at the front and at the back.It holds 20.5 gallons and with my corvair power I figure 3.5 hrs. cheers=2C Gardiner =0A > =0A > Sent from my iPad =0A > =0A > On May 5=2C 2013=2C at 1:32 PM=2C "taildrags" wro te: =0A > =0A m> =0A > > =0A > > By the way=2C just looking at Terry's wing ribs=2C I am reminded about the possibilities of putting fuel tanks in the wings now. With the relativ ely flat Pietenpol wing (less than 5" tall)=2C it's tough to get much volum e in a wing bay. Curious to know how much the typical centersection fuel t ank holds when constructed to Air Camper plans. I've heard that it is arou nd 10 gallons=2C maybe a little less. =0A > > =0A > > The Riblett 613.5 should be about 8" tall (13.5% of 60" =8.1"). With rib spacing of 11" and spars about 27" apart=2C a Riblett wing bay should have a volume of around 8 gallons. Putting a wing tank on each side would provide 16 gallons and essentially all of it would be usable=2C unlike the last 2 or 2.5 gallons of fuel in 41CC=2C which are just too low in the tank to flow reliably=2C especially in anything other than straight and level f light. With the fuel in the wings=2C gravity flow is much better=2C and it moves the fuel away from the cockpit. That can be a big plus=2C as Willia m Wynne found out the hard way when his plane crashed and fuel in the cockp it burned him badly and destroyed the airplane. Another plus is that the C G will not shift as fuel is used up in wing tanks. And you can keep the ce ntersection for storing things. And you can get to the rear of the firewal l easier. And... and... =0A > > =0A > > -------- =0A > > Oscar Zuniga =0A > > Medford=2C OR =0A > > Air Camper NX41CC "=3BScout"=3B =0A > > A75 power =0A > > =0A > > =0A > > =0A > > =0A > > Read this topic online here: =0A > > =0A > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399995#399995 =0A > > =0A > > =0A > > =0A > > =0A > > =0A > > =0A > > =0A > > =0A > > =0A > > =0A >================ =0A > =0A > =0A > =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List=0A tp://forums.matronics.com=0A _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution=0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A ============0A ============0A ============0A ============0A =0A ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: pulling nails...
From: "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com>
Date: May 06, 2013
I never entered one of these discussions before, because I've not built an entire plane, or for that matter, ever put nails in, or left them out. However, I learned a lot while repairing N2RN after the undercarriage event. I had to "dismantle" several joints in the fuselage, to allow installation of new longeron sections. That is, I had to remove the interior gussets, and carve out the lower longeron. Dick did not build this area either, by the way. The joints LOOKED PERFECT. Good wood, obvious use of resorcinol, seemed nicely fit... then I pulled off a gusset plate (with it's hundred nails...). The interior of the joint was a mess (wish I took pics). The glue didn't make contact on that interior gusset but over maybe ten percent of the area. The pieces were all different thicknesses although the plate made contact at the edges so looked alright with the appropriate amount of "squeeze out" there. 90 percent of the strength (derived from that gusset) came from the nails that had been left in place. However, the joint showed NO ill effects from the crash. Everything was tight, strong and nothing had shifted. The gusset on the other side (the fuse side) was good. It's clear that side was glued up first (or seems most likely so). I was very surprised. There's a (not so difficult) method to gluing thing up. It's not a lot unlike laying floor tiles. I think for best results you should "butter" each piece, put the piece in place, remove it to inspect for adequate contact, then put in place and clamp however. If this had been done, pulling the nails wouldn't matter. However, if you're not totally sure about actual contact and coverage, I think the nails should definitely be left in place. Just another data point. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=400047#400047 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: ribs
From: "j_dunavin" <j_dunavin(at)hotmail.com>
Date: May 06, 2013
How long do I soak the 1/4 x 1/2 strip? I tried over night and the grain split open this morning when I placed it in the jig. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=400063#400063 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Date: May 06, 2013
Subject: Re: ribs
In a message dated 5/6/2013 12:20:41 P.M. Central Daylight Time, j_dunavin(at)hotmail.com writes: --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "j_dunavin" How long do I soak the 1/4 x 1/2 strip? I tried over night and the grain split open this morning when I placed it in the jig. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=400063#400063 What kind of wood and how close are the grains? Corky ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: ribs
From: Jack <jack(at)textors.com>
Date: May 06, 2013
Whoa that does not sound right. Is your top airfoil correct? Using spruce? Good grain? Never had one of mine split, and just soaked overnight in a PVC pipe. Sent from my iPad Jack Textor On May 6, 2013, at 12:19 PM, "j_dunavin" wrote: > > How long do I soak the 1/4 x 1/2 strip? I tried over night and the grain split open this morning when I placed it in the jig. > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=400063#400063 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: ribs
From: "j_dunavin" <j_dunavin(at)hotmail.com>
Date: May 06, 2013
It's spruce from aircraft spruce. I will have to measure the grains. The jig is off of the 1:1 plans you buy. I'll take some pictures when I get home, but one of the guys at work thinks maybe I don't have enough support blocks on the jig. It did split as I placed the piece just aft of the rib in place. That is what I was going to use to hold it in place while it dried Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=400070#400070 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: ribs
From: "echobravo4" <eab4(at)comcast.net>
Date: May 06, 2013
I steamed mine for about 10 to 15 min Had much better luck steaming than soaking -------- Earl Brown I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I intended to be. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=400071#400071 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Riblett wing volume
From: "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com>
Date: May 06, 2013
Oscar, Neither. I used clamps. After trying nails as well as staples, I decided to cut out the holes in my jig so as to use clips. Very happy with the result. As Tools suggested in another thread, I buttered both the spruce cap strips and verticals as well as the gussets, let them set up for a bit, then clamped them with Harbor Freight clamps. Once they set up, I would pop them off the jig, flip the rib over, clean up the joint, then glue up the second side. I usually did side B of rib 1 at the same time I did side A of rib 2 that was now in the jig. I think you get the idea. -------- Semper Fi, Terry Hand Athens, GA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=400077#400077 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/image_166.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ray Krause <raykrause(at)frontiernet.net>
Subject: Re: pulling nails...
Date: May 06, 2013
Do the nails ever show a tendency to pull out or lift from the surface? I think I remember some comments about not using nails on the wing leading edge because they tend to pull out and poke through the fabric. I think someone referred to the leading edge looking like a porcupine. Any proof of this? The effort to pull brads far out weighs the penalty of a few extra pounds. There are easier ways to save weight. Thanks, Ray Krause SkyScout Sent from my iPad On May 6, 2013, at 7:18 AM, "tools" wrote: > > I never entered one of these discussions before, because I've not built an entire plane, or for that matter, ever put nails in, or left them out. > > However, I learned a lot while repairing N2RN after the undercarriage event. > > I had to "dismantle" several joints in the fuselage, to allow installation of new longeron sections. That is, I had to remove the interior gussets, and carve out the lower longeron. > > Dick did not build this area either, by the way. The joints LOOKED PERFECT. Good wood, obvious use of resorcinol, seemed nicely fit... then I pulled off a gusset plate (with it's hundred nails...). The interior of the joint was a mess (wish I took pics). > > The glue didn't make contact on that interior gusset but over maybe ten percent of the area. The pieces were all different thicknesses although the plate made contact at the edges so looked alright with the appropriate amount of "squeeze out" there. 90 percent of the strength (derived from that gusset) came from the nails that had been left in place. However, the joint showed NO ill effects from the crash. Everything was tight, strong and nothing had shifted. > > The gusset on the other side (the fuse side) was good. It's clear that side was glued up first (or seems most likely so). > > I was very surprised. There's a (not so difficult) method to gluing thing up. It's not a lot unlike laying floor tiles. I think for best results you should "butter" each piece, put the piece in place, remove it to inspect for adequate contact, then put in place and clamp however. If this had been done, pulling the nails wouldn't matter. > > However, if you're not totally sure about actual contact and coverage, I think the nails should definitely be left in place. > > Just another data point. > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=400047#400047 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: ribs
From: "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca>
Date: May 06, 2013
Support blocks? Hopefully your photos will help explain what you're talking about. Usually, a capstrip bending jig is a smooth curve that provides continuous support through the curved portion of the profile. localized blocks in place of continuous support can introduce stress risers, since the capstrip will only be shaped at the points where it makes contact with the blocks. See attached sketch by the late, great Tony Bingelis. Additionally, steaming the capstrips will provide more flexibility than simply soaking the wood in water. The heat of the steam breaks down the lignin in the wood (the "glue" that holds the fibers together), and allows the wood fibers to move, relative to each other. When the wood cools down, so does the lignin, and it resets. Sort of like melting wax. Bill C. j_dunavin wrote: > I'll take some pictures when I get home, but one of the guys at work thinks maybe I don't have enough support blocks on the jig. It did split as I placed the piece just aft of the rib in place. That is what I was going to use to hold it in place while it dried Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=400085#400085 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/makingwoodwingribs_780.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: ribs
From: "Pilot78" <wings.wheels29(at)yahoo.com>
Date: May 06, 2013
I built a cap strip steamer and it took only 15-20 minutes to get the cap strip to bend nicely. See at: http://www.mykitlog.com/users/category.php?user=Bjardine&project=2212&category=8547 Brian SLC-UT Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=400089#400089 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Brodhead dates
Date: May 06, 2013
Is Brodhead really ending on the 28th? Seems unusually late this year. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Clif Dawson" <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Riblett wing volume
Date: May 06, 2013
I have a pin nailer. This thing pops out 23 gauge little things you can hardly see. A wing's worth would be hardly an ounce or so. Clif Pilot's breakfast; coffee and a pee, donut and a dump. > I posted a picture a while back when I finished my ribs. I used staples > and kept them all to weigh after I pulled them. The total weight savings > was about 6.5 oz. Next time I'd use nails and forgo the cup of coffee > before flight. > Curt Merdan > Flower Mound, TX ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Clif Dawson" <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: ribs
Date: May 06, 2013
The only part that really needs help is the front foot or so of the top rib. The rest is so gentle a curve it will easily bend cold. I made a steamer out of an older electric kettle with a round spout. This spout fit almost exactly in some aluminum vacuum tube. Below is a drawing of the rib bending jig I built. It's a few layers of particle board glued together, cut out onthe bandsaw then smoothed on my sander to a curve a bit tighter than the rib nose curve. Screwed some hardware store 4" angle brackets to it a bit more than 1/4" above the bending surface. The steamed ribs were bent in under those brackets four at a time and left till I needed them the next day. Now when you're doing serious bending of large pieces for furniture and boats an outside strap is often necessary to deal with the grain splitting away. This is almost always when the bend is on the flat of the grain, not in edge grain. Wood bends easier when the grain is parallel with the jig though. In our application flat or edge grain bending shouldn't be a problem. Clif > Support blocks? Hopefully your photos will help explain what you're > talking about. Usually, a capstrip bending jig is a smooth curve that > provides continuous support through the curved portion of the profile. > localized blocks in place of continuous support can introduce stress > risers, since the capstrip will only be shaped at the points where it > makes contact with the blocks. See attached sketch by the late, great > Tony Bingelis. Additionally, steaming the capstrips will provide more > flexibility than simply soaking the wood in water. The heat of the steam > breaks down the lignin in the wood (the "glue" that holds the fibers > together), and allows the wood fibers to move, relative to each other. > When the wood cools down, so does the lignin, and it resets. Sort of like > melting wax. > > Bill C. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: pulling nails...
From: "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com>
Date: May 06, 2013
They can, as the wood expands and contracts it tends to back nails out. One thing that helps is to drive nails slowly. That tends to bend wood fibers over so they tend to hold the nail. Driven quickly (especially like a pneumatic driven nail), the fibers break, so the nail has less pull out resistance. Driving a nail into the face of "vertical grain", or quarter sawn will help, as wood is more dimensionally stable that way than plain sawn. The more well sealed the wood, the less it will expand and contract, so that helps. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=400101#400101 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: pulling nails...
From: "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca>
Date: May 07, 2013
As I recall, the issue with nails backing out related to a wing that had an aluminum leading edge skin, rather than the plywood (or cardboard) shown in the plans. Aluminum cannot be successfully glued to wood, so the only fastening of the aluminum is by means of nails. And the leading edge will be subject to flexing and movement, so it is likely that, over a number of years, the nails may begin to work themselves loose. In an aircraft, the primary method of fastening wood to wood is through the use of gussets and adhesive, and nails can be used to hold the wood in place while the glue cures. Nails should not be relied on to provide any structural strength. And, if building with Resorcinol adhesive, tight fitting joints are critical. The glue thickness is only supposed to be .005", so precise woodworking is called for. If a builder feels that this sort of precision is outside their abilities, they would be better served by using epoxy, such as T-88, which has some gap filling abilities. bill C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=400106#400106 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Brodhead dates
From: "DaveG601XL" <david.m.gallagher(at)ge.com>
Date: May 07, 2013
Douwe, Yes, that would be right with Oshkosh starting the next day on the 29th. It is a bit late in my opinion too. I have another national event I have always attended the week after Oshkosh, but now they over lap and I can't do both this year. See you at Brodhead? If you need anything ground transported from the Cincinnati area, just let me know. Dave -------- David Gallagher Zodiac 601 XL-B: flying, 220+ hours now Next project under construction: Finish my father's Aircamper Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=400110#400110 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Brodhead dates
From: "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca>
Date: May 07, 2013
Oshkosh typically opens on a Monday, between July 23 and 29. This year it falls at the tail end of the "spectrum". Last year it was at the early end. I believe the EAA sets the dates for Airventure according the dates set for the Brodhead Pietenpol Fly-in. BC Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=400117#400117 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ray Krause <raykrause(at)frontiernet.net>
Subject: Re: pulling nails...
Date: May 07, 2013
Thanks, That is good information. My plane will be well sealed and always in a very dry hangar. At my age, I may never see those little buggers raise their ugly heads. The brads I am using are supposed to have one kind of heat sensitive adhesive that is supposed to prevent them from coming out. They are a bitch to remove! Thanks again , Ray Krause SkyScout in progress! Sent from my iPad On May 6, 2013, at 11:37 PM, "tools" wrote: > > They can, as the wood expands and contracts it tends to back nails out. > > One thing that helps is to drive nails slowly. That tends to bend wood fibers over so they tend to hold the nail. Driven quickly (especially like a pneumatic driven nail), the fibers break, so the nail has less pull out resistance. > > Driving a nail into the face of "vertical grain", or quarter sawn will help, as wood is more dimensionally stable that way than plain sawn. > > The more well sealed the wood, the less it will expand and contract, so that helps. > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=400101#400101 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ray Krause <raykrause(at)frontiernet.net>
Subject: Re: pulling nails...
Date: May 07, 2013
Thanks, Bill. I agree with everything you say. I used T-88 and am not relying on the nails for any added strength. The brads are just used to secure the gussets and structure for drying. It is just too damn hard to remove them. If some of them work out on my plane, the lesson will be learned. Thanks to everyone, Ray Krause SkyScout PS: I will not be attending the Fraiser Lake FLYIN this year. My granddaughter is having her high school graduation party for the family that day, 11AM to 1PM! We also have the Sonex flyin the same day. Will many of the piets be staying over untll Sunday? I could fly down Sunday. Sent from my iPad On May 7, 2013, at 6:05 AM, "Bill Church" wrote: > > As I recall, the issue with nails backing out related to a wing that had an aluminum leading edge skin, rather than the plywood (or cardboard) shown in the plans. Aluminum cannot be successfully glued to wood, so the only fastening of the aluminum is by means of nails. And the leading edge will be subject to flexing and movement, so it is likely that, over a number of years, the nails may begin to work themselves loose. > In an aircraft, the primary method of fastening wood to wood is through the use of gussets and adhesive, and nails can be used to hold the wood in place while the glue cures. Nails should not be relied on to provide any structural strength. > And, if building with Resorcinol adhesive, tight fitting joints are critical. The glue thickness is only supposed to be .005", so precise woodworking is called for. If a builder feels that this sort of precision is outside their abilities, they would be better served by using epoxy, such as T-88, which has some gap filling abilities. > > bill C. > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=400106#400106 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Date: May 08, 2013
Subject: Wing Rib Production
Corky dreaming about wing ribs ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Wing Rib Production
From: Jack <jack(at)textors.com>
Date: May 08, 2013
Corky hope all is well, thinking of you! Sent from my iPhone On May 8, 2013, at 4:47 PM, Isablcorky(at)aol.com wrote: > > > Corky dreaming about wing ribs > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Wing Rib Production
Date: May 08, 2013
Judging by that cartoon, I=99d say there=99s nothing wrong with Corky=99s sense of humor, at least! Gary Boothe NX308MB From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2013 4:42 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wing Rib Production Corky hope all is well, thinking of you! Sent from my iPhone On May 8, 2013, at 4:47 PM, Isablcorky(at)aol.com wrote: Corky dreaming about wing ribs ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Horn Point Fly-In - Cambridge Maryland May 20-21, 2013
From: "Fun2av8" <iflyga(at)fun2av8.com>
Date: May 08, 2013
Is anyone planning on going to this Fly-In? It is sponsored by Potomac Antique Aero Squadron, a chapter of the Antique Airplane Association. Flyer is at http://hornpointflyin.info/uploads/PAAS_2011-Flyer_prf3.pdfhttp://hornpointflyin.info/uploads/PAAS_2011-Flyer_prf3.pdf AirNav: http://www.airnav.com/airport/MD18 - All Grass Runways - No Fuel on airport - Nearest fuel KCGE (6nm SE) - Culpeper to Horn Point - - 90 NM - - 1h 15m @ 70mph - - 7 gals - - 11 miles over water -------- Jim McWhorter N687MB (New Owner) Culpeper, VA KCJR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=400182#400182 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/horn_point_flyin__20_may_2013_183.png ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Horn Point Fly-In - Cambridge Maryland May 20-21,
2013
From: Lion Mason <airlion2(at)gmail.com>
Date: May 09, 2013
Will a wooden Piet float? Airlion Sent from my iPhone On May 8, 2013, at 9:50 PM, "Fun2av8" wrote: > > Is anyone planning on going to this Fly-In? It is sponsored by Potomac Antique Aero Squadron, a chapter of the Antique Airplane Association. > Flyer is at http://hornpointflyin.info/uploads/PAAS_2011-Flyer_prf3.pdfhttp://hornpointflyin.info/uploads/PAAS_2011-Flyer_prf3.pdf > > AirNav: http://www.airnav.com/airport/MD18 > - All Grass Runways > - No Fuel on airport > - Nearest fuel KCGE (6nm SE) > - Culpeper to Horn Point > - - 90 NM > - - 1h 15m @ 70mph > - - 7 gals > - - 11 miles over water > > -------- > Jim McWhorter > N687MB (New Owner) > Culpeper, VA KCJR > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=400182#400182 > > > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/horn_point_flyin__20_may_2013_183.png > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dortch, Steven D MAJ MIL USA NGB" <steven.d.dortch(at)us.army.mil>
Date: May 09, 2013
Subject: Re: Horn Point Fly-In - Cambridge Maryland May 20-21,
2013 UNCLASSIFIED Fill the wings with ping pong balls. Perhaps even the fuselage. (Ducking for cover) STeve D On 05/09/13, Lion Mason wrote: > > Will a wooden Piet float? Airlion > > Sent from my iPhone > > On May 8, 2013, at 9:50 PM, "Fun2av8" wrote: > > > > > Is anyone planning on going to this Fly-In? It is sponsored by Potomac Antique Aero Squadron, a chapter of the Antique Airplane Association. > > Flyer is at http://hornpointflyin.info/uploads/PAAS_2011-Flyer_prf3.pdfhttp://hornpointflyin.info/uploads/PAAS_2011-Flyer_prf3.pdf > > > > AirNav: http://www.airnav.com/airport/MD18 > > - All Grass Runways > > - No Fuel on airport > > - Nearest fuel KCGE (6nm SE) > > - Culpeper to Horn Point > > - - 90 NM > > - - 1h 15m @ 70mph > > - - 7 gals > > - - 11 miles over water > > > > -------- > > Jim McWhorter > > N687MB (New Owner) > > Culpeper, VA KCJR > > > > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=400182#400182 > > > > > > > > > > Attachments: > > > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/horn_point_flyin__20_may_2013_183.png > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > UNCLASSIFIED ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: My Days Work
From: "Avill" <avillery(at)gmail.com>
Date: May 09, 2013
Well here is my day's work. I figured since money is tight I might as well draw up my ribs. This is a 613.5 for use on a long wing with 1.5" I-beam spars. I will probably end up having one of the people I know with a router cut the gussets and jig to match. We will see if I can get the cap strips cut on a laser or a router. What ever happened to that guy about 2 years ago who was offering CNC rib kits? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=400229#400229 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/riblett_6135_no_verticals_932.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/riblett_6135_with_verticals_113.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: My Days Work
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
Date: May 10, 2013
OK John Hoffman, so the list has been slow lately.................... -----Original Message----- From: Avill <avillery(at)gmail.com> Sent: Thu, May 9, 2013 7:51 pm Subject: Pietenpol-List: My Days Work Well here is my day's work. I figured since money is tight I might as well draw up my ribs. This is a 613.5 for use on a long wing with 1.5" I-beam spars. I will probably end up having one of the people I know with a router cut the gussets and jig to match. We will see if I can get the cap strips cut on a laser or a router. What ever happened to that guy about 2 years ago who was offer ing CNC rib kits? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=400229#400229 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/riblett_6135_no_verticals_932.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/riblett_6135_with_verticals_113.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: My Days Work
From: "womenfly2" <Love2Fly.KAP(at)gmail.com>
Date: May 10, 2013
Why would you cut the cap strips out on a CNC router or laser. The grain or slope of the wood would not be correct. -------- Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=400245#400245 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: My Days Work
From: "Avill" <avillery(at)gmail.com>
Date: May 10, 2013
Maybe I used the incorrect terminology, the capstrips would still be bent but 90% of the mitres could be completed. I also neglected to mention the purpose. The mission is hot and high here in Denver. Yeah its been slow. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=400247#400247 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Michael Weston <smikewest(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: My Days Work
Date: May 10, 2013
hi, new here.my name is mike weston I'm building a short fuselage piet here in minneapolis, where the pilot light blew out on spring.anyway.I was unaware of the option to use a 1.5" "I"beam spar. where do I obtain a copy of this plan addendum? for that matter I didnt know that there was a long wing option how long? and where? by the way, you guys (and gals) are by far and away the most pleasant and helpful group i have ever come across on the web. keep it up! ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: My Days Work
From: "Avill" <avillery(at)gmail.com>
Date: May 10, 2013
Mike, There are no plans for an I-beam spar. It is however referenced on the West Coast Piet site with the necessary formulas. As far as lenghtening the wing, it has been done but again, no plans. I was intending on an extra rib inboard and one outboard of the strut. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=400252#400252 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Turnbuckle Cleanup
From: "CraigAho" <Soar561(at)hotmail.com>
Date: May 10, 2013
I was wondering if anyone has a suggestion for cleaning the barrels of the many turnbuckles i have from NX40772. The barrels are all dark from age but also the smoke damage. A couple cleaned up with some brass polish and fine bronze wool but most are stubborn and it would be a lot of handwork to brighten. Is there something I can soak them in? Lacquer thinner? or something? Craig Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=400254#400254 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Date: May 10, 2013
Subject: Turnbuckle Cleanup
http://www.wizardsproducts.com/store/catalog/Metal-Polish-30-oz-p-13.html This is by far the best (and easiest) stuff I've used to polish not only tu rnbuckles but my aluminum rims. Of course there is Nevr Dull polishing wadding available at Walmart/Kmart A utomotive and most of the autozone type stores that work well too but there is some chemical in this Wizards t hat really makes brass shine incredibly nicely and fast. Mike C. [cid:image001.png(at)01CE4D64.212208B0] ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "C N Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net>
Subject: Re: Turnbuckle Cleanup
Date: May 10, 2013
Craig, there is a product called "Brasso" which (most) military types use to shine their belt buckles. Don't know where you could get a can. I used to get what I needed at a military uniform shop or something similar. It does take a bit or rubbing, though. C ----- Original Message ----- From: "CraigAho" <Soar561(at)hotmail.com> Sent: Friday, May 10, 2013 9:44 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Turnbuckle Cleanup > > I was wondering if anyone has a suggestion for cleaning the barrels of the > many turnbuckles i have from NX40772. The barrels are all dark from age > but also the smoke damage. A couple cleaned up with some brass polish and > fine bronze wool but most are stubborn and it would be a lot of handwork > to brighten. Is there something I can soak them in? Lacquer thinner? or > something? > > Craig > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=400254#400254 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Date: May 10, 2013
Subject: Welcome Michael Weston
Hi Michael, I made a simple spar that required no routing and was easy to build. You can make the wing longer yes. If building a 3-pce wing make your cente r section wider or add a foot or two to each wing panel. It will improve your climb and how much you can lift passenge r-wise. You've got Dick Navratil in your area and he's built two Piets so he should be a good source of info first hand. If you can attend the Piet fly-in at Brodhead, WI you'll see lots of good things on how people did various aspects of the pla ne. Each one a little different from the rest. Bring a measuring tape, camera, and notepad:). Michael Cuy Ohio [cid:image001.jpg(at)01CE4D66.118FC200] ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: My Days Work
From: "dgaldrich" <dgaldrich(at)embarqmail.com>
Date: May 10, 2013
Mike There are a number of Piets in the MSP area and one of the local EAA chapters is building one. Dick Navrotil has built or had a hand in building something like 10 of them, lives in St Paul, and is active on this list. You should have a lot of usable advice from them. Dave Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=400263#400263 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 10, 2013
Subject: Re: My Days Work
From: Ken Bickers <bickers.ken(at)gmail.com>
Avill, If you are in the Denver area, you're welcome to drop by sometime to take a peek at my Pietenpol project. I'm based in Longmont. I'll be at the hangar most of tomorrow wing covering and probably some other to-do list items. Send me a PM if interested. Ken On Fri, May 10, 2013 at 6:08 AM, Avill wrote: > > Maybe I used the incorrect terminology, the capstrips would still be bent > but 90% of the mitres could be completed. > > I also neglected to mention the purpose. The mission is hot and high here > in Denver. Yeah its been slow. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=400247#400247 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Turnbuckle Cleanup
From: "CraigAho" <Soar561(at)hotmail.com>
Date: May 10, 2013
Thanks Guys for the suggestions. I have not seen the Miracle product Mike, I will take a look for it. I have used the others and was using some Never Dull along with the steel and bronze wool. I even chucked up a few barrels and spun them with my drill motor while holding the wool in the other hand which is a nice way to quickly polish but there are many VERY subbornly tarnished baked on smoke finish ones that will be more of a challenge and with the costs of buckles these days these are like gold so I will put the labor in a clean them up or maybe go with Daves suggestion. :) Speaking of labor intensive my wire wheels are a nitemare trying to relace them just because I had to have the nice looking grease cups. [Shocked] Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=400273#400273 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: My Days Work
Date: May 10, 2013
Avill=3B Is there some engineering behind your increasing the spar width to 1.5"? T he most important dimension for a spar (bending loads) is the depth. Incre asing the width does improve the spar's top and bottom chord performance in tension and compression=2C which helps in bending=2C but the point is=2C o thers have shown that 3/4" width is adequate for standard Air Camper spars. You might consider using 1" instead of 1.5" for your analysis with the lo nger wing before locking yourself into doubling the stock spar width. Oscar Zuniga Medford=2C OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: My Days Work
From: "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Date: May 10, 2013
Paul; The easy way to figure out what spar configuration you need would be to start with what works and then reverse-engineer your way to the configuration that you want to try. In the case of the stock Piet wing, you could start with the stock 1" solid spar and determine the moment that the stock, solid Air Camper spar was designed to sustain and use that as the number that your proposed substitute spar needs to meet. There are tables for looking up the moment of inertia for the beam section (Ix), a rectangle being the simplest. With that number in hand, you could calculate the web and flange dimensions needed for your "alternative" spar, but it gets more complex. The solid wood spar in the original drawings (and the routed 3/4" spar that Mr. Pietenpol later used as well) are Sitka spruce. If you use a different type of wood, or if you build up a composite I-beam section, the materials used may have different yield stress characteristics than Sitka and you've got to account for that. If you change the spar depth, the moment of inertia for the spar section changes, and you have to account for that. If you make the wings longer, the bending moment and other loads change as well... and you have to account for that. If you keep the attachment point for the lift struts to the wing spars the same but increase the wing span, the loading on the outboard parts of the wing changes and you have to account for that. Yadda, yadda. The point is, it's not as simple as "if I widen the flange by 1/2", I can increase the wing span by 18". At least, not if you want to do it right. -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=400278#400278 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick N" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: My Days Work
Date: May 10, 2013
What part of Mpls are you in? I am in Arden Hills and would like to stop by for a visit sometime. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Weston" <smikewest(at)comcast.net> Sent: Friday, May 10, 2013 7:56 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: My Days Work hi, new here.my name is mike weston I'm building a short fuselage piet here in minneapolis, where the pilot light blew out on spring.anyway.I was unaware of the option to use a 1.5" "I"beam spar. where do I obtain a copy of this plan addendum? for that matter I didnt know that there was a long wing option how long? and where? by the way, you guys (and gals) are by far and away the most pleasant and helpful group i have ever come across on the web. keep it up! ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: My Days Work
From: "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca>
Date: May 10, 2013
Avill, i was just looking at your CAD model of your rib, and it appears that you have raised the level where the bottom surface of the spars will sit. I don't think you want to do that. That will require that your brackets will need to be longer, with increased bending loads. The spars should sit right on top of the bottom capstrip. As for CNC router or laser cut capstrips... one has to ask "why?". These are simple 1/4" x 1/2" strips of spruce, easily cut with a small hand saw, or a miter saw. I rough cut mine a little bit oversized, and then fine tuned with a stationary disc sander. Worked like a charm. And finally, as Oscar said, every change affects many other things that need to be accounted for. Be careful to make sure you cover all your bases before proceeding with significant changes. Bill C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=400288#400288 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: My Days Work
From: "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com>
Date: May 10, 2013
Remember, Mr. Pietenpol used a 1" routed spar and that is shown in the Pietenpol family plans. Later, in the '60's he used a laminated 3/4" spar with no routing. Laminated correctly this would be stronger than a solid 3/4" spar which he never used. Others however have used this. There's very little difference in price between 3/4" and 1" and routing is very simple. Don Emch NX899DE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=400289#400289 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Date: May 10, 2013
Subject: spruce capstrip
This would be enough spruce to build an entire set of wing ribs. (this is for 450 feet of =BC"x =BD" spruce capstrip. Lighter than Douglas Fir too. Mike C. [cid:image001.png(at)01CE4D97.A8FAEB20] ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "C N Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net>
Subject: Re: spruce capstrip
Date: May 10, 2013
----- Original Message ----- From: Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC] To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, May 10, 2013 4:01 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: spruce capstrip This would be enough spruce to build an entire set of wing ribs. (this is for 450 feet of =BC"x =BD" spruce capstrip. Lighter than Douglas Fir too. Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "C N Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net>
Subject: Re: spruce capstrip
Date: May 10, 2013
Michael, I don't know where you got the figure of $0.53 per foot for 1/2 X 1/4 capstrip. ACS sells it for $0.32 per foot for a total of $144 for 450 feet. I sort of think it will take just a bit more than that. I think I figured 500 feet. My capstrip was cut from 5/4 (1 inch finished) Douglas Fir stock. We first cut the board into 1/4-inch strips and then cut the 1-inch dimension down the middle. The strips actually came out 1/4 X 7/16 or there abouts. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC] To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, May 10, 2013 4:01 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: spruce capstrip This would be enough spruce to build an entire set of wing ribs. (this is for 450 feet of =BC"x =BD" spruce capstrip. Lighter than Douglas Fir too. Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Date: May 10, 2013
Subject: spruce capstrip
That's even a better price you got there Chuck from AC Spruce. My cut and p aste was from Wicks Aircraft Supply. Sure is nice to just get finished stock and start cutting and gluing but I can see people making their own capstrip material, just not me:) ! Mike C. From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-lis t-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of C N Campbell Sent: Friday, May 10, 2013 4:46 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: spruce capstrip Michael, I don't know where you got the figure of $0.53 per foot for 1/2 X 1/4 capstrip. ACS sells it for $0.32 per foot for a total of $144 for 450 feet. I sort of think it will take just a bit more than that. I think I f igured 500 feet. My capstrip was cut from 5/4 (1 inch finished) Douglas Fi r stock. We first cut the board into 1/4-inch strips and then cut the 1-in ch dimension down the middle. The strips actually came out 1/4 X 7/16 or t here abouts. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]<mailto:michael.d.cu y(at)nasa.gov> Sent: Friday, May 10, 2013 4:01 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: spruce capstrip This would be enough spruce to build an entire set of wing ribs. (this is for 450 feet of =BC"x =BD" spruce capstrip. Lighter than Douglas Fir too. Mike C. [cid:image001.png(at)01CE4DA0.21EC1830] ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Greg Cardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: My Days Work
Date: May 10, 2013
Mike, Minneapolis / St. Paul has a very active Pietenpol following. Active Pietenpol flyers include Dick Navratil, Bob Poore, Larry White and myself. Several active build projects are in the immediate area also. Call me at 612 721-6235, we'll get you connected. Greg Cardinal Minneapolis ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Weston" <smikewest(at)comcast.net> Sent: Friday, May 10, 2013 7:56 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: My Days Work > > > hi, new here.my name is mike weston I'm building a short fuselage piet > here in minneapolis, where the pilot light blew out on spring.anyway.I was > unaware of the option to use a 1.5" "I"beam spar. where do I obtain a copy > of this plan addendum? for that matter I didnt know that there was a long > wing option how long? and where? by the way, you guys (and gals) are by > far and away the most pleasant and helpful group i have ever come across > on the web. keep it up! > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: My Days Work
From: "Avill" <avillery(at)gmail.com>
Date: May 10, 2013
Bill Church wrote: > Avill, > i was just looking at your CAD model of your rib, and it appears that you have raised the level where the bottom surface of the spars will sit. I don't think you want to do that. That will require that your brackets will need to be longer, with increased bending loads. The spars should sit right on top of the bottom capstrip. > As for CNC router or laser cut capstrips... one has to ask "why?". These are simple 1/4" x 1/2" strips of spruce, easily cut with a small hand saw, or a miter saw. I rough cut mine a little bit oversized, and then fine tuned with a stationary disc sander. Worked like a charm. > And finally, as Oscar said, every change affects many other things that need to be accounted for. Be careful to make sure you cover all your bases before proceeding with significant changes. > > Bill C. Bill, Thank you for your input. I will reduce the distance from the capstrips to the spar on the next revision. Everyone else, I will put in more time and see if the 1" built up spar works with the extra height. Ken, How does next Friday sound? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=400306#400306 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Clif Dawson" <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: My Days Work
Date: May 10, 2013
In this 5/8" web, what is the material and direction of grain? Clif > I've built my center section I-beam 5/8 web and 1x1 top and bottom. . > Thanks; Paul > Paul Donahue ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Fire extinguisher
From: "at7000ft" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Date: May 11, 2013
Guys Haven't posted in quite a while but I am just about ready to drag my Piet to a hanger I am sharing with a great guy with two Thorpe T-18s (Meadow Lake, east of Colorado Springs). Anyhow I know its not a requirement but how many of you guys carry a fire extinguisher? And what type? Would a halon extinguisher work in an open cockpit or would a dry chemical type be better? Asked the FAA safety people at SNF and they were clueless. rick -------- Rick Holland Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=400342#400342 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 11, 2013
From: Jim Boyer <boyerjrb(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: spruce capstrip
NO you drink Scotch; you are a Scot. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: My Days Work
From: "Mark Roberts" <mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com>
Date: May 11, 2013
Hi Guys: Welcome to the 613.5 club! Yes, I am building that airfoil as well. I know recent testing has been done on the different rib styles, but I'm going for the true "Experimental" route and using the GA-30-613.5 (as Mr. Riblett corrected me when I asked his advice between the "612 and the 613.5" for my fat all up weight). I do have plans drawn out if you want them. I don't "Publish" them as I want no liability for their use. I drew them to the actual plots published, and used the same size capstrip as the piet airfoil. I also did SEVERAL iterations of them, and punched out the jig on a CNC router I had. I also drew out the gussets to be laser cut. At one point, during one of my more and more frequent job lay offs, I had thought that I might kit the various airfoil jigs and parts (including a 'stick' cutting jig that would fit on a table saw and allow you to cut all of the internal parts accurately, with the right length, and angle to just POP into place and glue... made one and it works well, but not cost effective to make and ship). The jig I finalized used 1/4" dowels as bracing as it was easier to punch out on a CNC router. It is "dead to nuts" accurate to the original .dat point file on the airfoil plot. So, here's my take as a heretic of the "Riblett following": Listen to Oscar (aka Taildrags) in his analysis of the spar. It is height, not spar width that will make the biggest strength difference. The true strength is in the top and bottom of the spar which carry the compression and tension loads, and the height between the 2 that makes the spar stronger, not the width. (OK: that's a readers digest summary, perhaps you engineers will wince (Oscar!). The Riblett spar slots are deeper (taller) at their respective positions on the plot. Taller equals more spar height (depth) if you choose to make the spar fill the entire rib (top to bottom) with a spar (I do and I will). So (Oscar, correct my simple engineering mind if I am incorrect, but I'm not), the distance between the top and bottom of the spar can increase, allowing for a stronger wing spar for an extended length wing (as I plan.... I know HERESY!). For the record: I have allowed for the changes in wing length by taking advantage of a taller spar with 1" depth- routed for lightening- and moving the strut connection to the spar out one wing bay to allow for the added stress of 2 additional bays per side... and yes, I designed the vertical tail and stab/elevator to the proper size to compensate for the additional wing area and fuse nose extension by 2"). In theory, the Riblett design could add additional lift and allow to carry heavier loads. I plan to go for the full 1320 lb weight limit on my Piet with the additional strength changes to the design. So, hope that helps! Mark Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=400361#400361 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kip and Beth Gardner <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Fire extinguisher
Date: May 11, 2013
Rick, I would say offhand, go with the dry chem. With either you may have a problem getting it onto the fire, but if you succeed in that, the dry chem is going to have a continuous action, where the halon will dissipate rapidly. On May 11, 2013, at 10:57 AM, at7000ft wrote: > > Guys > > Haven't posted in quite a while but I am just about ready to drag my > Piet to a hanger I am sharing with a great guy with two Thorpe T-18s > (Meadow Lake, east of Colorado Springs). > > Anyhow I know its not a requirement but how many of you guys carry a > fire extinguisher? And what type? Would a halon extinguisher work in > an open cockpit or would a dry chemical type be better? Asked the > FAA safety people at SNF and they were clueless. > > rick > > -------- > Rick Holland > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=400342#400342 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: spruce capstrip
From: "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Date: May 11, 2013
Aye, it's "Scots", man. Nothing against a little Glenlivet scotch, though! My grandfather, Paul Young, was Scots-Irish. I guess that's why I never throw anything away and always try to make do with what I have ;o) -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=400366#400366 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: My Days Work
Date: May 11, 2013
Not endorsing the Riblett airfoils, but I have seen Mark's rib jib...it's a thing of beauty!! Gary Boothe NX308MB -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Roberts Sent: Saturday, May 11, 2013 11:49 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: My Days Work --> Hi Guys: Welcome to the 613.5 club! Yes, I am building that airfoil as well. I know recent testing has been done on the different rib styles, but I'm going for the true "Experimental" route and using the GA-30-613.5 (as Mr. Riblett corrected me when I asked his advice between the "612 and the 613.5" for my fat all up weight). I do have plans drawn out if you want them. I don't "Publish" them as I want no liability for their use. I drew them to the actual plots published, and used the same size capstrip as the piet airfoil. I also did SEVERAL iterations of them, and punched out the jig on a CNC router I had. I also drew out the gussets to be laser cut. At one point, during one of my more and more frequent job lay offs, I had thought that I might kit the various airfoil jigs and parts (including a 'stick' cutting jig that would fit on a table saw and allow you to cut all of the internal parts accurately, with the right length, and angle to just POP into place and glue... made one and it works well, but not cost effective to make and ship). The jig I finalized used 1/4" dowels as bracing as it was easier to punch out on a CNC router. It is "dead to nuts" accurate to the original .dat point file on the airfoil plot. So, here's my take as a heretic of the "Riblett following": Listen to Oscar (aka Taildrags) in his analysis of the spar. It is height, not spar width that will make the biggest strength difference. The true strength is in the top and bottom of the spar which carry the compression and tension loads, and the height between the 2 that makes the spar stronger, not the width. (OK: that's a readers digest summary, perhaps you engineers will wince (Oscar!). The Riblett spar slots are deeper (taller) at their respective positions on the plot. Taller equals more spar height (depth) if you choose to make the spar fill the entire rib (top to bottom) with a spar (I do and I will). So (Oscar, correct my simple engineering mind if I am incorrect, but I'm not), the distance between the top and bottom of the spar can increase, allowing for a stronger wing spar for an extended length wing (as I plan.... I know HERESY!). For the record: I have allowed for the changes in wing length by taking advantage of a taller spar with 1" depth- routed for lightening- and moving the strut connection to the spar out one wing bay to allow for the added stress of 2 additional bays per side... and yes, I designed the vertical tail and stab/elevator to the proper size to compensate for the additional wing area and fuse nose extension by 2"). In theory, the Riblett design could add additional lift and allow to carry heavier loads. I plan to go for the full 1320 lb weight limit on my Piet with the additional strength changes to the design. So, hope that helps! Mark Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=400361#400361 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fire extinguisher
From: "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Date: May 11, 2013
Boy, I'll bet you get answers that are all over the map on this one. It's really going to depend on where and when you expect to have to use the extinguisher, and on what type of fire. My guess is that if you have a fire while in the air, you won't be in any position to handle the extinguisher while flying the plane, but the alternative isn't pretty either. On the ground, you will have a better chance of properly applying the extinguisher while shutting down the engine and fuel supply. The three common classes fires (for purposes of extinguishers) are A, B, and C. Class A are ordinary combustibles such as wood, paper, fabric, etc. Class B are flammable and combustible liquids. Class C are electrical fires. Most household or light commercial portable extinguishers are either dry chemical types rated for A-B-C, or CO2, rated for B or C. There are pros and cons to each. The dry chemical types, as Kip mentioned, may be the best choice but be aware that they do leave a residue and it will require cleanup or you can get corrosion from the residue. The CO2 extinguishers leave no residue, but don't work well when you may have wood and fabric on fire. CO2 will almost certainly get blown out of your cockpit if you're in flight or have the engine running when you try to use it. Too many variables, and no cure-all. The other problem is that there isn't much room in a Piet cockpit to carry an extinguisher of any size, so you really only get one short shot at putting out a fire with a small extinguisher. If you want to sacrifice one, set up a mock fire with spruce, fabric, or avgas and try a small A-B-C extinguisher on it to see if it's worth the effort to carry in the cockpit. -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=400368#400368 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: My Days Work
From: "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Date: May 11, 2013
Mark; I think your Reader's Digest version states things very clearly. And yes, in theory a taller spar should be able to resist a greater bending load (lift, in the case of a cantilevered airplane wing), which should enable you to increase the span or the wing loading. With that said, I will reiterate what others have pointed out: the chain is only as strong as its weakest link. You can strengthen one link or several links, but then the failure point moves elsewhere and you have to make sure you check all the links. One thing affects another, and another. You need to check the lift struts, the strut attach hardware and fittings, maybe the internal wing bay bracing, who knows what else. -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=400371#400371 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Date: May 11, 2013
Subject: Re: spruce capstrip
In a message dated 5/11/2013 2:37:01 P.M. Central Daylight Time, taildrags(at)hotmail.com writes: --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "taildrags" Aye, it's "Scots", man. Nothing against a little Glenlivet scotch, though! My grandfather, Paul Young, was Scots-Irish. I guess that's why I never throw anything away and always try to make do with what I have ;o) -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=400366#400366 So that's why I've always ended up with all my stuff. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Well, I did it... Cut out that compression fracture
From: "Mark Roberts" <mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com>
Date: May 11, 2013
Now it's fixed! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=400389#400389 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/13683195156930_799.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: My Days Work
From: "Mark Roberts" <mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com>
Date: May 11, 2013
I blush. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=400392#400392 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Well, I did it... Cut out that compression fracture
From: "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Date: May 12, 2013
Mark: so, if I'm seeing the photos correctly, you've routered channels or grooves into some of the framing members to shave off a little weight? I don't think I've ever seen that done. Interesting. -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=400424#400424 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: My Days Work
From: "Avill" <avillery(at)gmail.com>
Date: May 12, 2013
Folks, I have finally had some time to run the studies on these spars. These tests were done in Solidworks, utilizing Sitka spruce specifications from Matweb.com. The test jig would have looked like a 13.5' spar held in a fixture at both ends. The spar would have then been subjected to 2668.5 Newtons of force( or a 1500LB GW aircraft) evenly distributed along its length. Solidworks generates a "Safety Factor" based on these calculations. The higher the safety factor the better. You will see that there is a spike in performance with an increase in spar width. Sorry folks. Please let me know if there are any configurations that you would like to see measured against the stock 1" spar. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=400437#400437 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/sitka_spar_testing_119.xls ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: My Days Work
From: "Mark Roberts" <mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com>
Date: May 12, 2013
VERY cool data Avill! I once sold SolidWorks as a local sales rep for the company that had the rights to this area. In fact, my one notable sale was to sell the first copy the Monterey Bay Research Institute bought to design and make parts for the deep ocean research vessels you see on shows on the discovery channel. Bob Ballards boat was tied up there that day, although he wasn't there. So I know and respect SolidWorks! Interesting findings. I will grab the dimensions off the spar size I plan to make and send you the sizes. I would covet your feedback regarding spar strength on a taller spar. I would think a 1" taller spar routed down to a 1/2" center might show a stronger safety margin. If I build to a higher safety factor than the original spar specs, perhaps that would allow my wife to enjoy the flights more :-) Of course, all of these numbers are speculation in the legal sense... No engineering data, actual or implied, is being given for the sake of actually building an airplane so, no one can sue! To quote Bart Simpson: "I didn't do it, No body saw me do it, you can't prove anything!" Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=400440#400440 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: My Days Work
Date: May 12, 2013
Are you saying that, as designed, the 1" or 3/4" spar is not strong enough? Gary Boothe NX308MB -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Avill Sent: Sunday, May 12, 2013 4:15 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: My Days Work Folks, I have finally had some time to run the studies on these spars. These tests were done in Solidworks, utilizing Sitka spruce specifications from Matweb.com. The test jig would have looked like a 13.5' spar held in a fixture at both ends. The spar would have then been subjected to 2668.5 Newtons of force( or a 1500LB GW aircraft) evenly distributed along its length. Solidworks generates a "Safety Factor" based on these calculations. The higher the safety factor the better. You will see that there is a spike in performance with an increase in spar width. Sorry folks. Please let me know if there are any configurations that you would like to see measured against the stock 1" spar. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=400437#400437 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/sitka_spar_testing_119.xls ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Craig Aho <soar561(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: My Days Work
Date: May 12, 2013
I dont think I have ever seen the Load factors for the stock wing (1933) an d published gross weight=2C does anyone know what they might be? > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: My Days Work > From: mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com > Date: Sun=2C 12 May 2013 16:41:23 -0700 > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > om> > > VERY cool data Avill! > > I once sold SolidWorks as a local sales rep for the company that had the rights to this area. In fact=2C my one notable sale was to sell the first c opy the Monterey Bay Research Institute bought to design and make parts for the deep ocean research vessels you see on shows on the discovery channel. Bob Ballards boat was tied up there that day=2C although he wasn't there. > > So I know and respect SolidWorks! Interesting findings. > > I will grab the dimensions off the spar size I plan to make and send you the sizes. I would covet your feedback regarding spar strength on a taller spar. I would think a 1" taller spar routed down to a 1/2" center might sho w a stronger safety margin. If I build to a higher safety factor than the o riginal spar specs=2C perhaps that would allow my wife to enjoy the flights more :-) > > Of course=2C all of these numbers are speculation in the legal sense... N o engineering data=2C actual or implied=2C is being given for the sake of a ctually building an airplane so=2C no one can sue! > > To quote Bart Simpson: "I didn't do it=2C No body saw me do it=2C you can 't prove anything!" > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=400440#400440 > > > > > > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "C N Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net>
Subject: Re: My Days Work
Date: May 12, 2013
How about a 3/4 inch wide spar 4-1/2 inches high? Anyway to get those figures? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Avill" <avillery(at)gmail.com> Sent: Sunday, May 12, 2013 7:15 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: My Days Work > > Folks, > > I have finally had some time to run the studies on these spars. These > tests were done in Solidworks, utilizing Sitka spruce specifications from > Matweb.com. The test jig would have looked like a 13.5' spar held in a > fixture at both ends. The spar would have then been subjected to 2668.5 > Newtons of force( or a 1500LB GW aircraft) evenly distributed along its > length. Solidworks generates a "Safety Factor" based on these > calculations. The higher the safety factor the better. You will see that > there is a spike in performance with an increase in spar width. Sorry > folks. Please let me know if there are any configurations that you would > like to see measured against the stock 1" spar. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=400437#400437 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/sitka_spar_testing_119.xls > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 13, 2013
Subject: Happy Mothers Day
From: Scott Knowlton <flyingscott_k(at)hotmail.com>
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April 26, 2013 - Present

Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-mg