Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-mv
August 15, 2013 - August 25, 2013
A75 power
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406767#406767
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: step forward |
| From: | Ken Bickers <bickers.ken(at)gmail.com> |
Oscar,
Okay, my apologies. Here's the head on top. I'll have to figure out where
to hang those other gizmos you mention. Maybe Uncle Tony has some ideas for
those :o)
Ken
On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 10:11 AM, taildrags wrote:
>
> Ken; shouldn't the head be on top? And where's the water pump and coolant
> hoses? ;o)
>
> --------
> Oscar Zuniga
> Medford, OR
> Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
> A75 power
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406767#406767
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | center flop hinges |
| From: | "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
Earlier, I posted that I was reworking the hinge on my centersection flop. Since
there has been discussion about piano hinges and mounting them (ailerons),
I'll mention the reason why I'm redoing the hinge on the flop. The hinge is presently
aluminum and the mounting holes were countersunk to receive flat-head
screws, leaving everything flush. The result of countersinking the holes was
that the aluminum got quite thin and the holes got very close to the edges of
the hinge. When the flop is flopped and care is not taken, or if a breeze catches
it in the flopped position, it can bounce and really put a strain on the
edges of the holes. Several of the screws in my hinge had pulled through the
metal because of this.
I am replacing the aluminum hinge with a stainless steel one (from McMaster Carr)
and re-mounting it with standard truss head AN526 machine screws into the nutplates.
As several others have noted, there is no need for the screw heads
to be countersunk if the screws are staggered on the two sides of the hinge such
that they don't directly oppose one another... the hinge will not close tightly
enough to require that the screw heads be flush.
I don't know if anyone else has experienced pull-through on their flop hinges,
but I have and I hope the steel hinge and no countersinking will cure that.
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406769#406769
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Dynamic balancing ? |
There is nothing exact about hand carving a prop. Without going into detail,
once the two blades are carved, on can only hope that they are very close to
each other in thrust. There are an infinite number of ways to be off. To
focus on thousands of an inch is a waste of time.
After all the careful work, the only thing that counts is how well the prop
performs. That applies to both hand carved and machine carved props, as
various prop makers have different ways of measuring pitch.
The reason for my comment was two-fold:
1) Real World: Most hand-carved prop makers have not had, and do not have
precision machine equipment. Center hole is drilled on a drill press, which,
at the best, will be squared and leveled with a t-square and/or a bubble
level.
2) Two bladed hand carved props are difficult enough, and have always been
balanced by eye. On a 1-10 scale of difficulty, Dan's 4-bladed prop is
a....15! The very fact that he figured out how to get all of that through a
band saw is incredible! The fact that it balances at all is a monumental
success!
Yet you choose to focus on the type of bubble level he used...therefore, my
remark, "Are you kidding?"
Gary Boothe
NX308MB
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of tools
Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2013 7:32 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Dynamic balancing ?
Usually props are put on dummy hub and balanced on balancing ways. That's
how they were balanced in the 30's, when they were ALL hand carved. Still,
balance is balance, if you want a prop to run smoothly, it has to be
balanced.
The hub placed level requires EXTREME precision as there is very little
movement for a significant change in balance. A good and simple system, but
to be as effective as a balancing way system, that little vial has to be
pretty decently manufactured. The balancing way system requires a more
accurate hub. As with everything in life, it's always something...
So, no, I'm not kidding. I will build a prop, not sure what that has to do
with how to balance something effectively. What did I miss there? I have
machined multi bolt hole patterns concentric with a precision hub for
vertical head adapters for milling machines, the functional equivalent of a
prop hub... does that count? I have also carved and balanced wood systems,
large flat belt pulleys for line shaft driven machines... Not sure what
part of the system I apparently don't have any knowledge about to apply the
subject matter information to. Perhaps you do and can add to the
discussion?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406758#406758
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Dynamic balancing ? |
| From: | "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
After correcting the prop tracking and re-torqueing the prop bolts on Scout's wooden
prop, I performed a dynamic balance using the DynaVibe instrument and procedure.
Scout's prop balancing was written up in the current issue of Contact!
Magazine, but that is irrelevant to my post. I agree with the "just do your
best and go fly" when it comes to these airplanes, but being an engineer and
having the instrument available to me, I just had to do it anyway.
In order to get the engine/prop in better dynamic balance, I ended up fabricating
a fairly considerable steel plate that is mounted under two of the prop bolts.
My engine is an A75 with the flanged prop hub, not the tapered shaft. I
called it good enough when I got the dynamic acceleration down to about 0.1 ips.
With that said, I will also mention that I have since moved the airplane from
hot and humid south Texas to milder and drier southern Oregon, so I have no
expectation of the propeller tracking or bolt torque still being good, and I
also have no expectation that the dynamic balance will be the same as it was
when I made the adjustments. However, I do expect the out-of-balance to be minor
once I deal with the prop tracking and bolt torques.
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406773#406773
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: step forward |
| From: | Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
Good work Ken. I can come up there and provide moral support on your first
startup, it was great having Mr. Markle around for mine.
rick h
On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 9:30 AM, Ken Bickers wrote:
> Another step forward. Tuesday, I mounted the motor on the fuselage for
> the very first time. Lots of steps still to go.
>
> Cheers, Ken
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
NX6819Z
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
Nice, Ken! I'm assuming you have weight in the tail. I lived in perpetual
fear that the weight would somehow slip out and the whole thing would nose
over..
Gary Boothe
NX308MB
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ken Bickers
Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2013 8:30 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: step forward
Another step forward. Tuesday, I mounted the motor on the fuselage for the
very first time. Lots of steps still to go.
Cheers, Ken
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: step forward |
| From: | Ken Bickers <bickers.ken(at)gmail.com> |
Rick, thanks. I'll take you up on that offer. I still have a fair amount
of work to go before the first run. I've just about finished fabricating
the intake pipes. I think that only leaves exhaust, electricals, ignition,
fuel, controls, baffling, cowlings ... Oh yeah, and prop balancing.
Cheers, Ken
On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 10:34 AM, Rick Holland wrote:
> Good work Ken. I can come up there and provide moral support on your first
> startup, it was great having Mr. Markle around for mine.
>
> rick h
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 9:30 AM, Ken Bickers wrote:
>
>> Another step forward. Tuesday, I mounted the motor on the fuselage for
>> the very first time. Lots of steps still to go.
>>
>> Cheers, Ken
>>
>
>
> --
> Rick Holland
> Castle Rock, Colorado
> NX6819Z
>
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: step forward |
| From: | Ken Bickers <bickers.ken(at)gmail.com> |
Gary, yep. Two FAA certified 40 pound dumbbells, each attached separately.
Ken
On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 10:51 AM, Ken Bickers wrote:
> Rick, thanks. I'll take you up on that offer. I still have a fair amount
> of work to go before the first run. I've just about finished fabricating
> the intake pipes. I think that only leaves exhaust, electricals, ignition,
> fuel, controls, baffling, cowlings ... Oh yeah, and prop balancing.
> Cheers, Ken
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 10:34 AM, Rick Holland wrote:
>
>> Good work Ken. I can come up there and provide moral support on your
>> first startup, it was great having Mr. Markle around for mine.
>>
>> rick h
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 9:30 AM, Ken Bickers wrote:
>>
>>> Another step forward. Tuesday, I mounted the motor on the fuselage for
>>> the very first time. Lots of steps still to go.
>>>
>>> Cheers, Ken
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Rick Holland
>> Castle Rock, Colorado
>> NX6819Z
>>
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: step forward |
| From: | Jack <jack(at)textors.com> |
What not to love, your ship and a loving dog...looks good ken, can't wait to get
there.
Sent from my iPad
Jack Textor
On Aug 15, 2013, at 10:30 AM, Ken Bickers wrote:
> Another step forward. Tuesday, I mounted the motor on the fuselage for the very
first time. Lots of steps still to go.
>
> Cheers, Ken
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: step forward |
| From: | Ken Bickers <bickers.ken(at)gmail.com> |
He's a hard working dog. Just look at how exhausted he is. But every
single day, he's anxious to return the hangar to work on the Piet. I'm sure
the jerky that I keep for him in the frig has little to do with it.
On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 11:23 AM, Jack wrote:
>
> What not to love, your ship and a loving dog...looks good ken, can't wait
> to get there.
>
> Sent from my iPad
> Jack Textor
>
> On Aug 15, 2013, at 10:30 AM, Ken Bickers wrote:
>
> > Another step forward. Tuesday, I mounted the motor on the fuselage for
> the very first time. Lots of steps still to go.
> >
> > Cheers, Ken
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mario Giacummo <mario.giacummo(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: simple prop balancer and tracking |
Another one.. the same perhaps?
http://vgmk1.blogspot.com/2013/04/helice-balanceo.html
Mario Giacummo
2013/8/15 Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC] <
michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
> Mike-- Last spring I refinished and balanced my prop. You are more
> than welcome to borrow my simple rubber stopper prop balancer that I used
> with a vise as a knife edge w/ angle irons sharpened. ****
>
> ** **
>
> I simply added a dab of varnish to the 'light' blade over the course of 2
> days, let dry and it was in perfect balance. What is just as critical, i
f
> not moresoe, to a smooth running prop is tracking****
>
> the blade which we can do together if you'd like. All we need is a brown
> shopping bag to tear up and a torque wrench. These two methods will
> result in a wonderfully smooth running prop. My Uncle****
>
> Tony shows both of these methods in his books and they work great. ****
>
> ** **
>
> Mike C.****
>
> ** **
>
> (I=92ll stop by the hangar tonight and pick this up for you) ****
>
> ** **
>
> ****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> ****
>
> ** **
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dan Yocum
> Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2013 10:40 AM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Dynamic balancing ?
>
> ** **
>
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> On 08/15/2013 09:35 AM, AircamperN11MS wrote:****
>
> ** **
>
> > My three cents, Now lets go flying.****
>
> ** **
>
> Hear, hear!****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
> ====================**** bsp; -
The Pietenpol-List Email Forum -**** nd
> much much more:**** tronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List**** ======
=============
> **** bsp; - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -**** eb Forums!**** .matronics.co
m
> ">http://forums.matronics.com**** =============
=======**** bsp; -
> List Contribution Web Site -**** o:p>** bsp; -Matt
> Dralle, List Admin.**** tronics.com/contribution">
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution**** ==========
==========****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Dynamic balancing ? |
| From: | "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org> |
Here is another way to build your own static balance tool. I have not built one
myself but had seen it printed somewhere and drew this up quickly from memory.
I don't see any reason it wouldn't work.
Please don't take me wrong on my last post. dynamic balancing is good and I think
it has its place with metal and constant speed props but I really don't think
we need it on our Piets. They are simple machines.
Attached is the rough drawing I made. Has anyone ever used this method before?
--------
Scott Liefeld
Flying N11MS since March 1972
Steel Tube
C-85-12
Wire Wheels
Brodhead in 1996
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406787#406787
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/20130815095521067_571.pdf
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: leather flying helmet |
| From: | "biplan53" <biplan53(at)hotmail.com> |
I got my genuine reproduction flying hat in the mail and I love it.
--------
Building steel fuselage aircamper.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406788#406788
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Dynamic balancing ? |
| From: | Jack <jack(at)textors.com> |
Scott I have and I can't find the article, it looked pretty slick...
Sent from my iPad
Jack Textor
On Aug 15, 2013, at 1:31 PM, "AircamperN11MS" wrote:
>
> Here is another way to build your own static balance tool. I have not built one
myself but had seen it printed somewhere and drew this up quickly from memory.
I don't see any reason it wouldn't work.
>
> Please don't take me wrong on my last post. dynamic balancing is good and I think
it has its place with metal and constant speed props but I really don't think
we need it on our Piets. They are simple machines.
>
> Attached is the rough drawing I made. Has anyone ever used this method before?
>
> --------
> Scott Liefeld
> Flying N11MS since March 1972
> Steel Tube
> C-85-12
> Wire Wheels
> Brodhead in 1996
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406787#406787
>
>
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/20130815095521067_571.pdf
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Dynamic balancing ? |
| From: | "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org> |
I think it was published in one of our Tech Counselor magazines. I am over fifty
and my memory stinks. :)
--------
Scott Liefeld
Flying N11MS since March 1972
Steel Tube
C-85-12
Wire Wheels
Brodhead in 1996
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406790#406790
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Dynamic balancing ? |
#2 is to your question, Scott. These two photos show almost all one needs to
know about prop balancing tools...from the prop carving demo's at Air
Venture.
I should point out, the attached is from a prop carving essay that I got
from Dan Helsper, and wish to emphasize that ANYONE capable of building a
Pietenpol is capable of making their own prop...with the tools they already
have! Do not be misled by claims of machinest type tools, or terms like "a
thousandth of an inch", or dynamic balancing.
#3 is a picture of my Piet with the current prop, made from poplar. I
confess, that I am purchasing a Culver prop, as I need a bench mark for
future carvings. My goal will be to make my Piet fly as well as Mike
Groah's, so I am working to change things to be similar to his. I have the
same engine, but also want the same climb, cruise and cooling numbers.
Gary Boothe
NX308MB
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
AircamperN11MS
Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2013 11:32 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Dynamic balancing ?
-->
Here is another way to build your own static balance tool. I have not built
one myself but had seen it printed somewhere and drew this up quickly from
memory. I don't see any reason it wouldn't work.
Please don't take me wrong on my last post. dynamic balancing is good and I
think it has its place with metal and constant speed props but I really
don't think we need it on our Piets. They are simple machines.
Attached is the rough drawing I made. Has anyone ever used this method
before?
--------
Scott Liefeld
Flying N11MS since March 1972
Steel Tube
C-85-12
Wire Wheels
Brodhead in 1996
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406787#406787
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/20130815095521067_571.pdf
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | simple prop balancer and tracking |
That's it Mario! Super simple and it will give you a very smooth running
prop. I LOVE that wood prop with the metal hub. You have
a very rare thing in that from what little I know about those kinds of prop
s. Way cool. Great look!!!
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-lis
t-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mario Giacummo
Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2013 2:20 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: simple prop balancer and tracking
Another one.. the same perhaps?
http://vgmk1.blogspot.com/2013/04/helice-balanceo.html
Mario Giacummo
2013/8/15 Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC] <michael.d.cuy@
nasa.gov>
Mike-- Last spring I refinished and balanced my prop. You are more than w
elcome to borrow my simple rubber stopper prop balancer that I used with a
vise as a knife edge w/ angle irons sharpened.
I simply added a dab of varnish to the 'light' blade over the course of 2 d
ays, let dry and it was in perfect balance. What is just as critical, if n
ot moresoe, to a smooth running prop is tracking
the blade which we can do together if you'd like. All we need is a brown s
hopping bag to tear up and a torque wrench. These two methods will resul
t in a wonderfully smooth running prop. My Uncle
Tony shows both of these methods in his books and they work great.
Mike C.
(I'll stop by the hangar tonight and pick this up for you)
[cid:image001.jpg(at)01CE99CA.A2F14F10]
[cid:image002.jpg(at)01CE99CA.A2F14F10]
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com<mailto:owner-pietenpol-list
-server(at)matronics.com> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dan Yocum
Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2013 10:40 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Dynamic balancing ?
yocum137(at)gmail.com>>
On 08/15/2013 09:35 AM, AircamperN11MS wrote:
> My three cents, Now lets go flying.
Hear, hear!
==================== bsp; - The Pi
etenpol-List Email Forum - nd much much more: tronics.com/Navigator?Pietenp
ol-List<http://tronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List>"> http://www.matronics
.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List ===============
===== bsp; - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - eb Forums! .matronics.c
om<http://matronics.com>">http://forums.matronics.com =======
============= bsp; - List Contribution Web Si
te - o:p> bsp; -Matt Dralle, List Admin. tronics.com/c
ontribution<http://tronics.com/contribution>"> http://www.matronics.com/con
tribution ===================
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Upcoming Corvair Colleges |
| From: | "John Francis" <Mrkringles(at)msn.com> |
I have my engine to a point that at the next Corvair College I attend (2014) it
should be ready to run. I've enjoyed every part of building it and look forward
to the day it runs and is mounted on my Piet. HOWEVER, I still have problems
contacting William Wynne. I sent my distributor to him in early Feb. for rebuild.
In the box was a letter with my contact information. I heard nothing.
I followed up with emails and phone calls (left messages) and still nothing.
He accepted my money vial paypal in early May (I thought maybe this was the
problem as I wasn't sure what the final cost would be in Feb) but still no response.
Alarm bells are starting to sound in my head. Today I called again and left another
message. I also sent another email. We'll see what happens.
John
--------
John Francis
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406794#406794
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Scott's method for prop balancing. |
That is another great way to balance a prop Scott and I've used that method
. I made up a gidgee (technical term for prop hub fitting) whereby
I hung my Corby Starlet prop assembly from a cable and simply drilled a hol
e and put a bolt, lockwasher, and nut on the spinner back plate at a
position which brought the cable into the center of my gidgee and balanced
the whole deal very nicely.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Dynamic balancing ? |
| From: | "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com> |
Gary,
I love those pics and writeups. Superbly elegant and simple. However, it doesn't
address the inital question... If you have the luxury of drilling your bolt
hole pattern AFTER you balance it, it is indeed a simple matter of indexing
it off where you have determined the prop will balance. However, if you balance
AFTER, it's critical that you balance at the exact center of the bolt hole
pattern or it just doesn't matter.
Indeed, for practical purposes none of this matters... Hell, the easy way would
be to mock up the prop on the crank, without pistons installed and use the crank
shaft as your hub, and the crank bearings as your balancing ways. You'll
be ahead of the game as in that stead, how you mount it IS how it'll mount in
use.
But, if you ARE going to balance, and spend any time doing it, may as well do it
as correctly as possible. If you don't, you could be making things worse, or
just never really fixing anything which is frustrating and time wasting.
If you're relying on a bubble, and the bubble isn't repeatable, it's a doomed cause.
You MIGHT get good results, and if you do, great. But if you don't, and
you don't realize the level on which you base your results is a causal factor,
how could you proceed?
Dynamic balancing is a GREAT way to check and correct stuff. Things in balance
last longer and are more reliable. There are non phase methods of dynamic balancing
that means decent dynamic balancing is possible with a cell phone app!
AND a fair amount of knowing what's going on, which while a little esoteric,
isn't difficult to pick up on.
There are quite a few EAA chapters and such who own dynamic balancing set ups and
break out their equipment and play around at fly-in's and such.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406797#406797
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Scott's method for prop balancing. |
| From: | "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org> |
Thanks Mike,
Pictures are worth a thousand words. Yours looks great.
--------
Scott Liefeld
Flying N11MS since March 1972
Steel Tube
C-85-12
Wire Wheels
Brodhead in 1996
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406800#406800
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Dynamic balancing ? |
If you had ever made a prop, you would know that the center hole, 1/4", is
the first thing done...in every board, prior to laminating! A simple jig
with the bolt pattern is used, at any time after laminating, to drill the
holes. You are complicating this whole issue, which does little to help
others who may be contemplating this endeavor.
Why don't you first make a prop, fly it on your Piet, then tell us how you
did it?
Gary Boothe
NX308MB
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of tools
Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2013 12:43 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Dynamic balancing ?
Gary,
I love those pics and writeups. Superbly elegant and simple. However, it
doesn't address the inital question... If you have the luxury of drilling
your bolt hole pattern AFTER you balance it, it is indeed a simple matter of
indexing it off where you have determined the prop will balance. However,
if you balance AFTER, it's critical that you balance at the exact center of
the bolt hole pattern or it just doesn't matter.
Indeed, for practical purposes none of this matters... Hell, the easy way
would be to mock up the prop on the crank, without pistons installed and use
the crank shaft as your hub, and the crank bearings as your balancing ways.
You'll be ahead of the game as in that stead, how you mount it IS how it'll
mount in use.
But, if you ARE going to balance, and spend any time doing it, may as well
do it as correctly as possible. If you don't, you could be making things
worse, or just never really fixing anything which is frustrating and time
wasting.
If you're relying on a bubble, and the bubble isn't repeatable, it's a
doomed cause. You MIGHT get good results, and if you do, great. But if you
don't, and you don't realize the level on which you base your results is a
causal factor, how could you proceed?
Dynamic balancing is a GREAT way to check and correct stuff. Things in
balance last longer and are more reliable. There are non phase methods of
dynamic balancing that means decent dynamic balancing is possible with a
cell phone app! AND a fair amount of knowing what's going on, which while a
little esoteric, isn't difficult to pick up on.
There are quite a few EAA chapters and such who own dynamic balancing set
ups and break out their equipment and play around at fly-in's and such.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406797#406797
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ryan Mueller <ryan(at)rmueller.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Upcoming Corvair Colleges |
John,
This is nothing new; it can take time to get parts from William, that's
just the way it is. They are a small operation, and have to divide their
time between production, builder assistance, traveling, and so on. For
example, since you sent your distributor in there has been a Corvair
College, Sun-N-Fun, Brodhead, and Oshkosh (see the Aug 12 write-up at
http://flycorvair.net regarding their 3,500 mile 20-state 21-day road
trip to OSH).
You may also find that getting to the point of needing the given parts
may expedite your order, e.g. you are waiting on the distributor to run
your engine as opposed to just wanting the parts; YMMV. That being said,
do not fear: they are a legitimate business, you will eventually get
your parts. Cheers,
Ryan
On 8/15/2013 2:18 PM, John Francis wrote:
>
> I have my engine to a point that at the next Corvair College I attend (2014)
it should be ready to run. I've enjoyed every part of building it and look forward
to the day it runs and is mounted on my Piet. HOWEVER, I still have problems
contacting William Wynne. I sent my distributor to him in early Feb. for
rebuild. In the box was a letter with my contact information. I heard nothing.
I followed up with emails and phone calls (left messages) and still nothing.
He accepted my money vial paypal in early May (I thought maybe this was
the problem as I wasn't sure what the final cost would be in Feb) but still no
response.
>
> Alarm bells are starting to sound in my head. Today I called again and left
another message. I also sent another email. We'll see what happens.
>
> John
>
> --------
> John Francis
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406794#406794
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Upcoming Corvair Colleges |
| From: | Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
Agree, WW always delivers.
rick h
On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 1:18 PM, John Francis wrote:
>
> I have my engine to a point that at the next Corvair College I attend
> (2014) it should be ready to run. I've enjoyed every part of building it
> and look forward to the day it runs and is mounted on my Piet. HOWEVER, I
> still have problems contacting William Wynne. I sent my distributor to him
> in early Feb. for rebuild. In the box was a letter with my contact
> information. I heard nothing. I followed up with emails and phone calls
> (left messages) and still nothing. He accepted my money vial paypal in
> early May (I thought maybe this was the problem as I wasn't sure what the
> final cost would be in Feb) but still no response.
>
> Alarm bells are starting to sound in my head. Today I called again and
> left another message. I also sent another email. We'll see what happens.
>
> John
>
> --------
> John Francis
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406794#406794
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
NX6819Z
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: New photo emerges from Brodhead 2012 |
| From: | "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
Helsper has his Corvair mounted funny in there... one of the heads and valve cover
is sticking up out of the top of the cowling, and he has his crankcase breather
vents going to some sort of a cooler.
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406808#406808
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: New photo emerges from Brodhead 2012 |
He thinks outside the box...
Gary Boothe
NX308MB
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of taildrags
Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2013 3:30 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: New photo emerges from Brodhead 2012
-->
Helsper has his Corvair mounted funny in there... one of the heads and valve
cover is sticking up out of the top of the cowling, and he has his crankcase
breather vents going to some sort of a cooler.
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406808#406808
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: New photo emerges from Brodhead 2012 |
| From: | danhelsper(at)aol.com |
Yea, and the grass isn't alive.
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Church <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca>
Sent: Thu, Aug 15, 2013 10:05 am
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: New photo emerges from Brodhead 2012
>
You can tell that the photo wasn't from 2013, because nobody is wearing a p
arka.
BC
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406755#406755
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Upcoming Corvair Colleges |
| From: | Lion Mason <airlion2(at)gmail.com> |
John you might just show up at corvair college 27 in barn well sc in November.
Let wunnerful know you will be there and I will Bet he will have your districbutor
. Gardiner
Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 15, 2013, at 4:41 PM, Ryan Mueller wrote:
>
> John,
>
> This is nothing new; it can take time to get parts from William, that's
> just the way it is. They are a small operation, and have to divide their
> time between production, builder assistance, traveling, and so on. For
> example, since you sent your distributor in there has been a Corvair
> College, Sun-N-Fun, Brodhead, and Oshkosh (see the Aug 12 write-up at
> http://flycorvair.net regarding their 3,500 mile 20-state 21-day road
> trip to OSH).
>
> You may also find that getting to the point of needing the given parts
> may expedite your order, e.g. you are waiting on the distributor to run
> your engine as opposed to just wanting the parts; YMMV. That being said,
> do not fear: they are a legitimate business, you will eventually get
> your parts. Cheers,
>
> Ryan
>
> On 8/15/2013 2:18 PM, John Francis wrote:
>>
>> I have my engine to a point that at the next Corvair College I attend (2014)
it should be ready to run. I've enjoyed every part of building it and look forward
to the day it runs and is mounted on my Piet. HOWEVER, I still have problems
contacting William Wynne. I sent my distributor to him in early Feb. for
rebuild. In the box was a letter with my contact information. I heard nothing.
I followed up with emails and phone calls (left messages) and still nothing.
He accepted my money vial paypal in early May (I thought maybe this was
the problem as I wasn't sure what the final cost would be in Feb) but still no
response.
>>
>> Alarm bells are starting to sound in my head. Today I called again and left
another message. I also sent another email. We'll see what happens.
>>
>> John
>>
>> --------
>> John Francis
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406794#406794
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: simple prop balancer and tracking |
| From: | danhelsper(at)aol.com |
Mike,
Are you sure it wouldn't it be better to make it out of stainless?
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Sent: Thu, Aug 15, 2013 10:27 am
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: simple prop balancer and tracking
I'm with you Mike. As we discussed, I'll take what you have. However, betwe
en now and Monday, I may make up my own set of tapered plugs and balance sh
aft, (machined aluminum) and support fixture for the prop. If I do, it wou
ld be neat to compare each balance system to one another.
Oh and don't forget the templates.
Michael Perez
Pietenpol HINT Videos
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Upcoming Corvair Colleges |
| From: | Jack <jack(at)textors.com> |
No doubt William is a knowledgable authority on Corvairs. That said, early on I
considered going that direction, ordered his book and started to look for engines.
After learning about his slow response I went with a C-85. That's not the
only reason but I will stop there...
Sent from my iPad
Jack Textor
On Aug 15, 2013, at 3:41 PM, Ryan Mueller wrote:
>
> John,
>
> This is nothing new; it can take time to get parts from William, that's
> just the way it is. They are a small operation, and have to divide their
> time between production, builder assistance, traveling, and so on. For
> example, since you sent your distributor in there has been a Corvair
> College, Sun-N-Fun, Brodhead, and Oshkosh (see the Aug 12 write-up at
> http://flycorvair.net regarding their 3,500 mile 20-state 21-day road
> trip to OSH).
>
> You may also find that getting to the point of needing the given parts
> may expedite your order, e.g. you are waiting on the distributor to run
> your engine as opposed to just wanting the parts; YMMV. That being said,
> do not fear: they are a legitimate business, you will eventually get
> your parts. Cheers,
>
> Ryan
>
> On 8/15/2013 2:18 PM, John Francis wrote:
>>
>> I have my engine to a point that at the next Corvair College I attend (2014)
it should be ready to run. I've enjoyed every part of building it and look forward
to the day it runs and is mounted on my Piet. HOWEVER, I still have problems
contacting William Wynne. I sent my distributor to him in early Feb. for
rebuild. In the box was a letter with my contact information. I heard nothing.
I followed up with emails and phone calls (left messages) and still nothing.
He accepted my money vial paypal in early May (I thought maybe this was
the problem as I wasn't sure what the final cost would be in Feb) but still no
response.
>>
>> Alarm bells are starting to sound in my head. Today I called again and left
another message. I also sent another email. We'll see what happens.
>>
>> John
>>
>> --------
>> John Francis
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406794#406794
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Upcoming Corvair Colleges |
| From: | Gary Boothe <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
Hold me back, Ryan!!
Gary
Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 15, 2013, at 5:33 PM, Jack wrote:
>
> No doubt William is a knowledgable authority on Corvairs. That said, early on
I considered going that direction, ordered his book and started to look for engines.
After learning about his slow response I went with a C-85. That's not
the only reason but I will stop there...
>
> Sent from my iPad
> Jack Textor
>
> On Aug 15, 2013, at 3:41 PM, Ryan Mueller wrote:
>
>>
>> John,
>>
>> This is nothing new; it can take time to get parts from William, that's
>> just the way it is. They are a small operation, and have to divide their
>> time between production, builder assistance, traveling, and so on. For
>> example, since you sent your distributor in there has been a Corvair
>> College, Sun-N-Fun, Brodhead, and Oshkosh (see the Aug 12 write-up at
>> http://flycorvair.net regarding their 3,500 mile 20-state 21-day road
>> trip to OSH).
>>
>> You may also find that getting to the point of needing the given parts
>> may expedite your order, e.g. you are waiting on the distributor to run
>> your engine as opposed to just wanting the parts; YMMV. That being said,
>> do not fear: they are a legitimate business, you will eventually get
>> your parts. Cheers,
>>
>> Ryan
>>
>> On 8/15/2013 2:18 PM, John Francis wrote:
>>>
>>> I have my engine to a point that at the next Corvair College I attend (2014)
it should be ready to run. I've enjoyed every part of building it and look
forward to the day it runs and is mounted on my Piet. HOWEVER, I still have problems
contacting William Wynne. I sent my distributor to him in early Feb. for
rebuild. In the box was a letter with my contact information. I heard nothing.
I followed up with emails and phone calls (left messages) and still nothing.
He accepted my money vial paypal in early May (I thought maybe this was
the problem as I wasn't sure what the final cost would be in Feb) but still
no response.
>>>
>>> Alarm bells are starting to sound in my head. Today I called again and left
another message. I also sent another email. We'll see what happens.
>>>
>>> John
>>>
>>> --------
>>> John Francis
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>
>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406794#406794
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Upcoming Corvair Colleges |
| From: | Jack <jack(at)textors.com> |
Let it out Gary! Missed you at the Brat Fest this year.
I will behave now...
Sent from my iPad
Jack Textor
On Aug 15, 2013, at 7:41 PM, Gary Boothe wrote:
>
> Hold me back, Ryan!!
>
> Gary
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Aug 15, 2013, at 5:33 PM, Jack wrote:
>
>>
>> No doubt William is a knowledgable authority on Corvairs. That said, early on
I considered going that direction, ordered his book and started to look for
engines. After learning about his slow response I went with a C-85. That's not
the only reason but I will stop there...
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>> Jack Textor
>>
>> On Aug 15, 2013, at 3:41 PM, Ryan Mueller wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> John,
>>>
>>> This is nothing new; it can take time to get parts from William, that's
>>> just the way it is. They are a small operation, and have to divide their
>>> time between production, builder assistance, traveling, and so on. For
>>> example, since you sent your distributor in there has been a Corvair
>>> College, Sun-N-Fun, Brodhead, and Oshkosh (see the Aug 12 write-up at
>>> http://flycorvair.net regarding their 3,500 mile 20-state 21-day road
>>> trip to OSH).
>>>
>>> You may also find that getting to the point of needing the given parts
>>> may expedite your order, e.g. you are waiting on the distributor to run
>>> your engine as opposed to just wanting the parts; YMMV. That being said,
>>> do not fear: they are a legitimate business, you will eventually get
>>> your parts. Cheers,
>>>
>>> Ryan
>>>
>>> On 8/15/2013 2:18 PM, John Francis wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I have my engine to a point that at the next Corvair College I attend (2014)
it should be ready to run. I've enjoyed every part of building it and look
forward to the day it runs and is mounted on my Piet. HOWEVER, I still have problems
contacting William Wynne. I sent my distributor to him in early Feb.
for rebuild. In the box was a letter with my contact information. I heard nothing.
I followed up with emails and phone calls (left messages) and still nothing.
He accepted my money vial paypal in early May (I thought maybe this was
the problem as I wasn't sure what the final cost would be in Feb) but still
no response.
>>>>
>>>> Alarm bells are starting to sound in my head. Today I called again and left
another message. I also sent another email. We'll see what happens.
>>>>
>>>> John
>>>>
>>>> --------
>>>> John Francis
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>>
>>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406794#406794
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol T-shirts from Brodhead 2013 |
| From: | "Bill Weeden" <bweeden(at)charter.net> |
I found a 2XL shirt and a SMALL (one of each) in my stash. They have been added
to the store.
And no sweatshirts, sorry. It's a one weekend event in July in Wisconsin.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406819#406819
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: simple prop balancer and tracking |
| From: | Jack <jack(at)textors.com> |
Mario, wish you could bring it to the states!
Sent from my iPad
Jack Textor
On Aug 15, 2013, at 2:18 PM, "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, L
LC]" wrote:
> That=99s it Mario! Super simple and it will give you a very smooth
running prop. I LOVE that wood prop with the metal hub. You have
> a very rare thing in that from what little I know about those kinds of pro
ps. Way cool. Great look!!!
>
>
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-li
st-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mario Giacummo
> Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2013 2:20 PM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: simple prop balancer and tracking
>
> Another one.. the same perhaps?
>
> http://vgmk1.blogspot.com/2013/04/helice-balanceo.html
>
>
>
>
>
> Mario Giacummo
>
>
>
> 2013/8/15 Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC] @nasa.gov>
> Mike-- Last spring I refinished and balanced my prop. You are more than w
elcome to borrow my simple rubber stopper prop balancer that I used with a v
ise as a knife edge w/ angle irons sharpened.
>
>
>
> I simply added a dab of varnish to the 'light' blade over the course of 2 d
ays, let dry and it was in perfect balance. What is just as critical, if no
t moresoe, to a smooth running prop is tracking
>
> the blade which we can do together if you'd like. All we need is a brown s
hopping bag to tear up and a torque wrench. These two methods will result
in a wonderfully smooth running prop. My Uncle
>
> Tony shows both of these methods in his books and they work great.
>
>
>
> Mike C.
>
>
>
> (I=99ll stop by the hangar tonight and pick this up for you)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-li
st-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dan Yocum
> Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2013 10:40 AM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Dynamic balancing ?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 08/15/2013 09:35 AM, AircamperN11MS wrote:
>
>
>
> > My three cents, Now lets go flying.
>
>
>
> Hear, hear!
>
>
>
>
>
> ==================== bsp; - The P
ietenpol-List Email Forum - nd much much more: tronics.com/Navigator?Pietenp
ol-List"> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List ======
============== bsp; - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS
- eb Forums! .matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ======
============== bsp; - List Contribution Web S
ite - o:p> bsp; -Matt Dralle, List Admin. tronics.com/c
ontribution"> http://www.matronics.com/contribution ========
===========
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Upcoming Corvair Colleges |
| From: | Gary Boothe <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
The loss was all mine, Jack! Next year is looking much better...
Gary
Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 15, 2013, at 6:33 PM, Jack wrote:
>
> Let it out Gary! Missed you at the Brat Fest this year.
> I will behave now...
>
> Sent from my iPad
> Jack Textor
>
> On Aug 15, 2013, at 7:41 PM, Gary Boothe wrote:
>
>>
>> Hold me back, Ryan!!
>>
>> Gary
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Aug 15, 2013, at 5:33 PM, Jack wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> No doubt William is a knowledgable authority on Corvairs. That said, early
on I considered going that direction, ordered his book and started to look for
engines. After learning about his slow response I went with a C-85. That's not
the only reason but I will stop there...
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>> Jack Textor
>>>
>>> On Aug 15, 2013, at 3:41 PM, Ryan Mueller wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> John,
>>>>
>>>> This is nothing new; it can take time to get parts from William, that's
>>>> just the way it is. They are a small operation, and have to divide their
>>>> time between production, builder assistance, traveling, and so on. For
>>>> example, since you sent your distributor in there has been a Corvair
>>>> College, Sun-N-Fun, Brodhead, and Oshkosh (see the Aug 12 write-up at
>>>> http://flycorvair.net regarding their 3,500 mile 20-state 21-day road
>>>> trip to OSH).
>>>>
>>>> You may also find that getting to the point of needing the given parts
>>>> may expedite your order, e.g. you are waiting on the distributor to run
>>>> your engine as opposed to just wanting the parts; YMMV. That being said,
>>>> do not fear: they are a legitimate business, you will eventually get
>>>> your parts. Cheers,
>>>>
>>>> Ryan
>>>>
>>>> On 8/15/2013 2:18 PM, John Francis wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I have my engine to a point that at the next Corvair College I attend (2014)
it should be ready to run. I've enjoyed every part of building it and look
forward to the day it runs and is mounted on my Piet. HOWEVER, I still have
problems contacting William Wynne. I sent my distributor to him in early Feb.
for rebuild. In the box was a letter with my contact information. I heard nothing.
I followed up with emails and phone calls (left messages) and still nothing.
He accepted my money vial paypal in early May (I thought maybe this
was the problem as I wasn't sure what the final cost would be in Feb) but still
no response.
>>>>>
>>>>> Alarm bells are starting to sound in my head. Today I called again and left
another message. I also sent another email. We'll see what happens.
>>>>>
>>>>> John
>>>>>
>>>>> --------
>>>>> John Francis
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406794#406794
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Upcoming Corvair Colleges |
| From: | "kevinpurtee" <kevin.purtee(at)us.army.mil> |
William is nothing if not controversial. Despite his idiosyncrasies, this is what
I know:
1) When I need a part to get the motor running he's on top of it,
2) When I need help diagnosing a problem he's on top of it,
3) He's one of the smartest people I've ever met, no exaggeration,
4) If you want to discuss basic, practical, no-kidding small airplane design he's
a wealth of knowledge,
5) I've been doing aviation and industrial safety professionally since 1989. I've
got credentials and everything. William has helped me clarify and refine
my philosophy on aviation safety. This despite the fact that I've got a butt-load
more flight time than he has,
6) If you want to really know how your motor works, he'll help you learn,
7) I am one of the most active Piet builders/flyers in the community and I am confident
in my choice to rebuild FBG with a Corvair engine.
Corvair Colleges are educational and entertaining, even if you don't plan to use
a Corvair. They're worth going to just to see what he's going to come up with
next.
WW's a heckuvalot better source of information than many of the internet geniuses
you'll find dispensing sage advice. You know who I'm talking about: the guys
who didn't build their airplane and barely fly it but tell you all about how
to do both.
See you at CC28.
--------
Kevin "Axel" Purtee
Rebuilding NX899KP
Austin/San Marcos, TX
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406828#406828
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Upcoming Corvair Colleges |
| From: | "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
I didn't build my airplane, I barely fly it, and I tell you about how to do both.
;) With that out of the way, I'll say a couple of things: (1) my airplane
has a Continental engine on it; (2) I have been working on my Corvair conversion
for 14 years now, and it is still just a short block and two big boxes of prepped
parts. Oh, and I still need to take the short block back apart so I can
get a nitrided crank into it and prep the cases for a 5th bearing; (3) I consider
William to be a close personal friend and one of the best and most down-to-earth
engine and aircraft technicians and mechanics I have ever met. He is
also extremely clever and practical, has a great sense of humor, and can talk
so long that he should rent himself out as a professional filibuster speaker
on Capitol Hill.
Sometimes you get things back from William & Grace practically overnight, but other
times it takes weeks or months. I got an engine mount from him the same
week I spoke to him on the phone about it, before I sent him a penny in payment,
and we are on opposite coasts of the U.S. The one thing William & Grace are
*not*, are swindlers, charlatans, or cheats. I will stand behind that statement
unconditionally.
Off soapbox now; disclaimer: this has been a biased commentary and personal observation
and is not intended to create heated discussion.
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406830#406830
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <jack(at)bedfordlandings.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol T-shirts from Brodhead 2013 |
Except this year it was in February...
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Weeden
Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2013 9:34 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol T-shirts from Brodhead 2013
I found a 2XL shirt and a SMALL (one of each) in my stash. They have been
added to the store.
And no sweatshirts, sorry. It's a one weekend event in July in Wisconsin.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406819#406819
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack" <jack(at)textors.com> |
| Subject: | C85-12F For Sale on eBay $4500 |
Know nothing about it, looks to be a good engine and price...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/300949544643?item=300949544643&viewitem=&sspagename
ADME:B:SS:US:3160&vxp=mtr
Jack Textor
Des Moines, IA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> |
Oscar, I too have been surprised by my flop.
I routinely forget to lower it when I start the engine and the propwash will
"wang" the flop down hard. Each time this happens, the forces in essence
want to pull the hinge screws out. I had to retighten them after only
thirty hours or so due to my forgetfulness. I used longer screws, a little
glue on each and added more foam padding so when it bangs down, I still have
to pull it a little further into the foam to get the latch to catch, AND I'm
trying to be more careful. Now I only forget about 25% of the time.
Douwe
Ps. Does anyone know anything about dynamically balancing a prop???
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mario Giacummo <mario.giacummo(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Scott's method for prop balancing. |
If you have any doubt another "little help" http://bcove.me/axgovbmt
Mario Giacummo
2013/8/15 Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC] <
michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
> That is another great way to balance a prop Scott and I've used that
> method. I made up a gidgee (technical term for prop hub fitting) whereby
> I hung my Corby Starlet prop assembly from a cable and simply drilled a
> hole and put a bolt, lockwasher, and nut on the spinner back plate at a
> position which brought the cable into the center of my gidgee and balanced
> the whole deal very nicely.
>
>
> Mike C.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mario Giacummo <mario.giacummo(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: simple prop balancer and tracking |
Yes, with tha plane behind ;0)))
Two things about balancing it; instance of using two sharp blades, I use a
couple of al tubes, very easy to find (or something similar) and in the
contact point with the prop axis, very, very, very sharp, may be more sharp
than a sharp blade, mathematicaly just 1 point. you have to see it
balancing side to side until stop, lots of minuets.
regards
Mario Giacummo
2013/8/15 Jack
> Mario, wish you could bring it to the states!
>
> Sent from my iPad
> Jack Textor
>
> On Aug 15, 2013, at 2:18 PM, "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners
,
> LLC]" wrote:
>
> That=92s it Mario! Super simple and it will give you a very smooth
> running prop. I LOVE that wood prop with the metal hub. You have****
>
> a very rare thing in that from what little I know about those kinds of
> props. Way cool. Great look!!!****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [
> mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]
> *On Behalf Of *Mario Giacummo
>
> *Sent:* Thursday, August 15, 2013 2:20 PM
> *To:* pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: simple prop balancer and tracking****
>
> ** **
>
> Another one.. the same perhaps?****
>
> ** **
>
> http://vgmk1.blogspot.com/2013/04/helice-balanceo.html****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
>
> ****
>
> ** **
>
> Mario Giacummo****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> 2013/8/15 Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC] <
> michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>****
>
> Mike-- Last spring I refinished and balanced my prop. You are more than
> welcome to borrow my simple rubber stopper prop balancer that I used with
a
> vise as a knife edge w/ angle irons sharpened. ****
>
> ****
>
> I simply added a dab of varnish to the 'light' blade over the course of 2
> days, let dry and it was in perfect balance. What is just as critical, i
f
> not moresoe, to a smooth running prop is tracking****
>
> the blade which we can do together if you'd like. All we need is a brown
> shopping bag to tear up and a torque wrench. These two methods will
> result in a wonderfully smooth running prop. My Uncle****
>
> Tony shows both of these methods in his books and they work great. ****
>
> ****
>
> Mike C.****
>
> ****
>
> (I=92ll stop by the hangar tonight and pick this up for you) ****
>
> ****
>
> ****
>
> ****
>
> ****
>
> ****
>
> ****
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dan Yocum
> Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2013 10:40 AM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Dynamic balancing ?****
>
> ****
>
>
> ****
>
> ****
>
> ****
>
> On 08/15/2013 09:35 AM, AircamperN11MS wrote:****
>
> ****
>
> > My three cents, Now lets go flying.****
>
> ****
>
> Hear, hear!****
>
> ****
>
> ****
>
> ==================== bsp; - The
Pietenpol-List Email Forum - nd much much
> more: tronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List =======
============
> bsp; - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - eb Forums! .matronics.com">
> http://forums.matronics.com ===============
===== bsp; - List
> Contribution Web Site - o:p> bsp; -Matt Dralle, List
> Admin. tronics.com/contribution"> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
===================
> ****
>
> ****
>
> ****
>
> ****
>
> ** **
>
> *
>
===========
>
===========
===========
===========
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mario Giacummo <mario.giacummo(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: simple prop balancer and tracking |
For those of you showing interest in this "strange" prop.
https://docs.google.com/file/d/1dC6y4e-0MFBLxlMm95OtAl5OWFdmCpnBx0l_E2HsfSc
GiMt3npKBLXZVKruG/edit?usp=sharing
Mario Giacummo
2013/8/15 Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC] <
michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
> That=92s it Mario! Super simple and it will give you a very smooth
> running prop. I LOVE that wood prop with the metal hub. You have****
>
> a very rare thing in that from what little I know about those kinds of
> props. Way cool. Great look!!!****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Mario Giacummo
> *Sent:* Thursday, August 15, 2013 2:20 PM
> *To:* pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: simple prop balancer and tracking****
>
> ** **
>
> Another one.. the same perhaps?****
>
> ** **
>
> http://vgmk1.blogspot.com/2013/04/helice-balanceo.html****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
>
> ****
>
> ** **
>
> Mario Giacummo****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> 2013/8/15 Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC] <
> michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>****
>
> Mike-- Last spring I refinished and balanced my prop. You are more than
> welcome to borrow my simple rubber stopper prop balancer that I used with
a
> vise as a knife edge w/ angle irons sharpened. ****
>
> ****
>
> I simply added a dab of varnish to the 'light' blade over the course of 2
> days, let dry and it was in perfect balance. What is just as critical, i
f
> not moresoe, to a smooth running prop is tracking****
>
> the blade which we can do together if you'd like. All we need is a brown
> shopping bag to tear up and a torque wrench. These two methods will
> result in a wonderfully smooth running prop. My Uncle****
>
> Tony shows both of these methods in his books and they work great. ****
>
> ****
>
> Mike C.****
>
> ****
>
> (I=92ll stop by the hangar tonight and pick this up for you) ****
>
> ****
>
> ****
>
> ****
>
> ****
>
> ****
>
> ****
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dan Yocum
> Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2013 10:40 AM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Dynamic balancing ?****
>
> ****
>
>
> ****
>
> ****
>
> ****
>
> On 08/15/2013 09:35 AM, AircamperN11MS wrote:****
>
> ****
>
> > My three cents, Now lets go flying.****
>
> ****
>
> Hear, hear!****
>
> ****
>
> ****
>
> ==================== bsp; - The
Pietenpol-List Email Forum - nd much much
> more: tronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List =======
============
> bsp; - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - eb Forums! .matronics.com">
> http://forums.matronics.com ===============
===== bsp; - List
> Contribution Web Site - o:p> bsp; -Matt Dralle, List
> Admin. tronics.com/contribution"> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
===================
> ****
>
> ****
>
> ****
>
> ****
>
> ** **
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca> |
Seems like some posts are getting to some people, but not others.
I assume that the messages went through to those getting the "real time" emails,
but they're missing on the Forum.
For example:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=98974
There are several responses to messages that don't appear in the thread (yet, the
missing messages are quoted in the responses).
BC
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406846#406846
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Upcoming Corvair Colleges |
| From: | "John Francis" <Mrkringles(at)msn.com> |
The Pietenpol Gods must have intervened. I just received an email from WW that
my distributor was being mailed today. Not which one of you is God?
John
--------
John Francis
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406847#406847
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: ford oil pressure |
| From: | "bender" <jfaith(at)solairusaviation.com> |
Classic summery Oscar..
the way the oil drain from the front main into the dipper pan i'm sure I can eliminate
the one tube.
I got it all together and running ..again ..and the front main seal is leaking
again... during the running it appears to have turned under I guess.. a bit of
the seal is sticking out the wrong way and it wasn't when I first started it...
it's just about to win. This whole business of disassembly and reassembly for
a "modern" $12 seal is killing me. wish it still had a slinger on it.
oil steam.. and iron..
jeff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406849#406849
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Scott's method for prop balancing. |
| From: | Jack <jack(at)textors.com> |
Thanks Mario!
Sent from my iPad
Jack Textor
On Aug 16, 2013, at 7:31 AM, Mario Giacummo wrote
:
> If you have any doubt another "little help" http://bcove.me/axgovbmt
>
>
>
>
> Mario Giacummo
>
>
>
> 2013/8/15 Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC] @nasa.gov>
>> That is another great way to balance a prop Scott and I've used that meth
od. I made up a gidgee (technical term for prop hub fitting) whereby
>> I hung my Corby Starlet prop assembly from a cable and simply drilled a h
ole and put a bolt, lockwasher, and nut on the spinner back plate at a
>> position which brought the cable into the center of my gidgee and balance
d the whole deal very nicely.
>>
>>
>> Mike C.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Upcoming Corvair Colleges |
| From: | Jack <jack(at)textors.com> |
I think William...
Sent from my iPad
Jack Textor
On Aug 16, 2013, at 9:13 AM, "John Francis" wrote:
>
> The Pietenpol Gods must have intervened. I just received an email from WW that
my distributor was being mailed today. Not which one of you is God?
>
> John
>
> --------
> John Francis
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406847#406847
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | For those of you who finished where did you start building? |
| From: | "Toddster" <ToddKammerdiener(at)msn.com> |
I am preparing to start building a Pietenpol in February.
I deciding where to start I thought it might be helpful to get some feedback from
those of you who have completed or are nearing completion of their aircraft.
My initial thought was to do the wings since it seems be the single most time consuming
task, but it might also be nice to get something done (relatively) quickly
when starting out.
Suggestions?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406855#406855
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Upcoming Corvair Colleges |
| From: | Gary Boothe <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
It's Friday...You can't provoke me!
Gary
Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 16, 2013, at 8:38 AM, Jack wrote:
>
> I think William...
>
> Sent from my iPad
> Jack Textor
>
> On Aug 16, 2013, at 9:13 AM, "John Francis" wrote:
>
>>
>> The Pietenpol Gods must have intervened. I just received an email from WW that
my distributor was being mailed today. Not which one of you is God?
>>
>> John
>>
>> --------
>> John Francis
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406847#406847
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mario Giacummo <mario.giacummo(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: For those of you who finished where did you start |
building?
Anywhere, even in the kitchen; belive it or not ;o)
Mario Giacummo
2013/8/16 Toddster
> >
>
> I am preparing to start building a Pietenpol in February.
> I deciding where to start I thought it might be helpful to get some
> feedback from those of you who have completed or are nearing completion of
> their aircraft.
>
> My initial thought was to do the wings since it seems be the single most
> time consuming task, but it might also be nice to get something done
> (relatively) quickly when starting out.
>
> Suggestions?
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406855#406855
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: For those of you who finished where did you start |
building?
| From: | Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
Start with the ribs, only need a 6'x2' table top/workbench somewhere. Why
wait till Feb? Your initial investment (after buying the plans) would be a
couple hundred bucks worth of 1/4" x 1/2" strips, a 2'x2' piece of 1/16"
ply and some T-88 epoxy (and a 2x6' piece of 3/4" ply from a construction
dumpster for your rib jig).
rh
On Fri, Aug 16, 2013 at 9:58 AM, Toddster wrote:
> >
>
> I am preparing to start building a Pietenpol in February.
> I deciding where to start I thought it might be helpful to get some
> feedback from those of you who have completed or are nearing completion of
> their aircraft.
>
> My initial thought was to do the wings since it seems be the single most
> time consuming task, but it might also be nice to get something done
> (relatively) quickly when starting out.
>
> Suggestions?
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406855#406855
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
NX6819Z
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "TOM STINEMETZE" <TOMS(at)mcpcity.com> |
| Subject: | Re: For those of you who finished where did you start |
building?
Todd:
I found it inspiring to do the tail feathers first. They are smaller to work with
but are composed of the same elements that you will be dealing with in all
the other parts of the aircraft. Pretty quickly you will have something to hang
on the wall and look at proudly while you are working on other things. Second,
do your rib jig and start fabricating wing ribs. This is a project that
will take a long time to complete but you will be able to jig up and glue up
a rib in an evening and then be able to work on other things while that rib is
curing.
To each his own but that worked out well for me.
Tom Stinemetze
McPherson, KS.
N328X (maybe 2-years out yet)
>>> "Toddster" 8/16/2013 10:58 AM >>>
I am preparing to start building a Pietenpol in February.
I deciding where to start I thought it might be helpful to get some feedback from
those of you who have completed or are nearing completion of their aircraft.
My initial thought was to do the wings since it seems be the single most time consuming
task, but it might also be nice to get something done (relatively) quickly
when starting out.
Suggestions?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406855#406855
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: For those of you who finished where did you start |
building?
| From: | "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org> |
Start where you like. We built the Fuse first. It gave us someplace to sit (insert
airplane noises here) and decide how next to proceed. None of the components
take up much space when completed. The ribs make for great winter work
since those can be built in the house where is is typically warmer than the garage
or basement. What ever you start with have fun. The biggest pointer I can
give you is the do something each and every day no matter how small, soon you
will be flying.
Happy building,
--------
Scott Liefeld
Flying N11MS since March 1972
Steel Tube
C-85-12
Wire Wheels
Brodhead in 1996
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406859#406859
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | For those of you who finished where did you start |
building?
Toddster,
You asked the question correctly..."... those of you who have completed or
are nearing completion...". I have no idea of your background, but am
assuming this is your first hand made A/C...maybe even your first personally
owned A/C. A good habit to start right now is to always filter the advice
you get. Even from this fine group of builders and flyers, you will get
advice from someone who is eager to tell you how to do something that they
have never done. When you get to the airport with your brand new Pietenpol,
that input will be multiplied ten-fold! Ask questions, but be wary.
On this subject, you will get opinions all over the board. There's no right
answer. I can only say that I started with tail parts, then moved to
fuselage, then wings. Next time I might put the wings ahead of fuselage, as
they are easy to store. The tail parts are fun and easy, and you can proudly
carry any one of them into the house, remove your wife's quilt from the
living room wall, and hang something interesting! :-0
Have you looked at www.westcoastpiet.com?
Gary Boothe
NX308MB
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Toddster
Sent: Friday, August 16, 2013 8:58 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: For those of you who finished where did you start
building?
-->
I am preparing to start building a Pietenpol in February.
I deciding where to start I thought it might be helpful to get some feedback
from those of you who have completed or are nearing completion of their
aircraft.
My initial thought was to do the wings since it seems be the single most
time consuming task, but it might also be nice to get something done
(relatively) quickly when starting out.
Suggestions?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406855#406855
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: For those of you who finished where did you start |
building?
| From: | DandD Boyd <dndboyd2(at)gmail.com> |
I started with the vertical stabilizer because it was easy and a way to
begin to develop my knowledge and skills. Then I finished all the tail
feathers before starting on ribs. The fuse came last. 13 years to first
flight last November. If I didn't have to work for a living and get 6 kids
through college I'm sure I could have done it quicker; like maybe 12
years....
On Fri, Aug 16, 2013 at 10:58 AM, Toddster wrote:
> >
>
> I am preparing to start building a Pietenpol in February.
> I deciding where to start I thought it might be helpful to get some
> feedback from those of you who have completed or are nearing completion of
> their aircraft.
>
> My initial thought was to do the wings since it seems be the single most
> time consuming task, but it might also be nice to get something done
> (relatively) quickly when starting out.
>
> Suggestions?
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406855#406855
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Upcoming Corvair Colleges |
| From: | "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com> |
Ryan, Oscar, and others have said as much, but I will add my 2 and 1/2 cents, and
I will keep it short (Honest, Ryan. I promise. [Wink] )
In my limited experience with William he is all that Kevin and others have said
and more. I have learned much from just speaking with him and reading his blog,
and not just about Corvairs. Philosophy of building and maintaining, among
other things.
But the one thing he is not is a Johnny-on-the-spot communicator for all of the
reasons Ryan wrote. If that is what you must have to do business with him then
you should probably move on. But you will miss out on your aviation education
by doing so.
However, if you can be patient and accepting of William's way of doing things,
it will be well worth it. And if you need a part ASAP, let him know and he will
make it happen
Sorry, Ryan. I went longer than I meant to, but it was for a mutual friend. :D
--------
Semper Fi,
Terry Hand
Athens, GA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406865#406865
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: For those of you who finished where did you start |
building?
| From: | Rick <lmforge(at)earthlink.net> |
That's what worked for me. I made up my rib jig and did the ribs and then the tail
feathers.
Rick Schreiber
Sent from my iPad
On Aug 16, 2013, at 11:18 AM, "TOM STINEMETZE" wrote:
>
> Todd:
>
> I found it inspiring to do the tail feathers first. They are smaller to work
with but are composed of the same elements that you will be dealing with in all
the other parts of the aircraft. Pretty quickly you will have something to
hang on the wall and look at proudly while you are working on other things.
Second, do your rib jig and start fabricating wing ribs. This is a project that
will take a long time to complete but you will be able to jig up and glue up
a rib in an evening and then be able to work on other things while that rib
is curing.
>
> To each his own but that worked out well for me.
> Tom Stinemetze
> McPherson, KS.
> N328X (maybe 2-years out yet)
>
>>>> "Toddster" 8/16/2013 10:58 AM >>>
>
> I am preparing to start building a Pietenpol in February.
> I deciding where to start I thought it might be helpful to get some feedback
from those of you who have completed or are nearing completion of their aircraft.
>
> My initial thought was to do the wings since it seems be the single most time
consuming task, but it might also be nice to get something done (relatively)
quickly when starting out.
>
> Suggestions?
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406855#406855
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <jack(at)bedfordlandings.com> |
| Subject: | For those of you who finished where did you start |
building?
Todd,
You've already gotten lot's of good advice. It doesn't really matter where
you start. I did ribs first, then wings, then tail, then centersection,
then fuselage, but it really doesn't matter. Just break it down into a
bunch of small manageable projects. It's a whole lot easier to think about
building a rib than the enormity of building a whole airplane.
As Scott said, try to do something on it every day, just to keep your mind
in it. If you stop working on it for a few days, that can easily turn into
a few weeks or months and pretty soon you don't know what you were working
on last and it becomes difficult to get back into it. I've got a brother
who has had a Hatz biplane almost ready to cover for 27 years, because he
"took a break" from it back in 1986 when his daughter was born. Now it
looks like an enormous project to him.
One thing to consider if you are getting your wood from one of the big
companies like Aircraft Spruce or Wicks is that shipping is very expensive,
so it might pay to order all your long pieces (spars and longerons, and big
sheets of aircraft plywood) together if possible, to reduce the shipping
costs. Tail pieces are easy to store, as are wing ribs. A completed wing
can be hung from a wall or the ceiling. The fuselage is the most cumbersome
of the main pieces of the airplane so if you have cramped building quarters,
that might be the deciding factor as to where to start.
As for doing the wings first because it seems to be the most time consuming
task, what you will find is that building all the structure takes less than
half the time to finish the airplane. Builders commonly are at the point in
their project where they are "90% done and 90% to go". That happens about
the point where all the structure is complete. Designing, fabricating and
installing all the systems (fuel system, brakes, controls, electrical system
if so equipped, instruments, etc.) takes a large amount of time, as does
covering and painting.
Just enjoy the process. Don't be in too big of a hurry to get it flying -
there will be plenty of time for that. You may find, as several of us have,
that without an airplane project to work on you feel a bit lost, after your
Pietenpol is done and flying. I'm now building one of the Van's RV's (Ramp
Vermin), but I find building a kit to be much less satisfying than building
from scratch.
Before Mike Cuy can say it, I'll advise that you buy at least the first two
of the Tony Bingelis books (available from EAA), The Sportplane Builder and
Sportplane Construction Techniques. There you will find many of your
questions answered in generous detail. And attend the annual Pietenpol
Fly-in in Brodhead, Wisconsin. There you will typically see a couple of
dozen Pietenpols, and no two are alike.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Toddster
Sent: Friday, August 16, 2013 11:58 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: For those of you who finished where did you start
building?
I am preparing to start building a Pietenpol in February.
I deciding where to start I thought it might be helpful to get some feedback
from those of you who have completed or are nearing completion of their
aircraft.
My initial thought was to do the wings since it seems be the single most
time consuming task, but it might also be nice to get something done
(relatively) quickly when starting out.
Suggestions?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406855#406855
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chuck Campbell <cncampbell(at)outlook.com> |
| Subject: | For those of you who finished where did you start |
building?
Todd=2C I started on the tail surfaces. Next=2C I did the wing ribs -- the
n started on the fulelage. Stopped the fuse to build the wings. Listen to
Jack's advice -- I last worked on my project last October. Wife and I bot
h had cancers removed and we bought a new house nearer to our kids. Am now
in the process of selling the old house. The "project" is now in storage
in a grandson's garage. Gotta get started back on it. Maybe this fall aft
er the closing on our house. Chuck
From: jack(at)bedfordlandings.com
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: For those of you who finished where did you st
art building?
Date: Fri=2C 16 Aug 2013 15:51:56 -0400
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
Todd=2C=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
You've=0A
already gotten lot's of good advice. It doesn't really matter where you=0A
start. I did ribs first=2C then wings=2C then tail=2C then centersection
=2C then=0A
fuselage=2C but it really doesn't matter. Just break it down into a bunch
=0A
of small manageable projects. It's a whole lot easier to think about=0A
building a rib than the enormity of building a whole airplane.=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
As=0A
Scott said=2C try to do something on it every day=2C just to keep your mind
in=0A
it. If you stop working on it for a few days=2C that can easily turn into
a=0A
few weeks or months and pretty soon you don't know what you were working on
=0A
last and it becomes difficult to get back into it. I've got a brother who
=0A
has had a Hatz biplane almost ready to cover for 27 years=2C because he=0A
"took a break" from it back in 1986 when his daughter was born. =0A
Now it looks like an enormous project to him.=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
One=0A
thing to consider if you are getting your wood from one of the big companie
s=0A
like Aircraft Spruce or Wicks is that shipping is very expensive=2C so it m
ight=0A
pay to order all your long pieces (spars and longerons=2C and big sheets of
=0A
aircraft plywood) together if possible=2C to reduce the shipping costs. =0A
Tail pieces are easy to store=2C as are wing ribs. A completed wing can be
=0A
hung from a wall or the ceiling. The fuselage is the most cumbersome of=0A
the main pieces of the airplane so if you have cramped building quarters=2C
that=0A
might be the deciding factor as to where to start.=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
As=0A
for doing the wings first because it seems to be the most time consuming ta
sk=2C=0A
what you will find is that building all the structure takes less than half
the=0A
time to finish the airplane. Builders commonly are at the point in their
=0A
project where they are "90% done and 90% to go". That happens=0A
about the point where all the structure is complete. Designing=2C=0A
fabricating and installing all the systems (fuel system=2C brakes=2C contro
ls=2C=0A
electrical system if so equipped=2C instruments=2C etc.) takes a large amou
nt of=0A
time=2C as does covering and painting.=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
Just=0A
enjoy the process. Don't be in too big of a hurry to get it flying=0A
- there will be plenty of time for that. You may find=2C as several of us
=0A
have=2C that without an airplane project to work on you feel a bit lost=2C
after=0A
your Pietenpol is done and flying. I'm now building one of the Van's RV's
=0A
(Ramp Vermin)=2C but I find building a kit to be much less satisfying than
=0A
building from scratch.=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
Before=0A
Mike Cuy can say it=2C I'll advise that you buy at least the first two of t
he=0A
Tony Bingelis books (available from EAA)=2C The Sportplane Builder and Spor
tplane=0A
Construction Techniques. There you will find many of your questions=0A
answered in generous detail. And attend the annual Pietenpol Fly-in in Bro
dhead=2C Wisconsin. =0A
There you will typically see a couple of dozen Pietenpols=2C and no two are
=0A
alike.=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
Jack=0A
Phillips=0A
=0A
NX899JP=0A
=0A
Smith Mountain Lake=2C=0A
Virginia=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
-----Original=0A
Message-----
=0A
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com=0A
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Toddster
=0A
=0A
Sent: Friday=2C August 16=2C 2013 11:58 AM
=0A
=0A
Subject: Pietenpol-List: For those of you who finished where did you start
=0A
building?=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
-->=0A
Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Toddster"=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
I=0A
am preparing to start building a Pietenpol in February. =0A
=0A
I=0A
deciding where to start I thought it might be helpful to get some feedback
from=0A
those of you who have completed or are nearing completion of their aircraft
.=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
My=0A
initial thought was to do the wings since it seems be the single most time
=0A
consuming task=2C but it might also be nice to get something done (relative
ly)=0A
quickly when starting out. =0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
Suggestions?=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
Read=0A
this topic online here:=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406855#406855=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
============0A
============0A
============0A
============0A
=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: For those of you who finished where did you start |
building?
| From: | danhelsper(at)aol.com |
Todd,
Build the ribs first, then the tail feathers, then wings, then fuselage las
t.
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN
-----Original Message-----
From: Toddster <ToddKammerdiener(at)msn.com>
Sent: Fri, Aug 16, 2013 12:05 pm
Subject: Pietenpol-List: For those of you who finished where did you start
building?
I am preparing to start building a Pietenpol in February.
I deciding where to start I thought it might be helpful to get some feedbac
k
from those of you who have completed or are nearing completion of their
aircraft.
My initial thought was to do the wings since it seems be the single most ti
me
consuming task, but it might also be nice to get something done (relatively
)
quickly when starting out.
Suggestions?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406855#406855
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ben Charvet <bencharvet(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: For those of you who finished where did you start |
building?
Welcome to the group, Todd
I made a mock-up fuselage first out of some cheap lumber, just to get my
carpentry skills up. After I cut that up I started on the wing ribs,
thinking that if I had the stamina to finish those, I could complete the
whole project. I think it took me about 40 days to get them complete,
then I started on the real fuselage. Be sure to make lots of practice
ribs. I have extras hanging in my living room, office, and hangar now.
I milled my own lumber and built my Piet out of Douglas Fir. It takes a
little longer but saved me a lot of money and my final weight was a
little under 700 lbs. As Jack Mentioned, the woodworking goes fast, and
doesn't cost much. Its the other 90% where 90% of the money goes. Keep
plugging away and before you know it you are committing vintage aviation
Ben Charvet
NX866BC A-65
180 hrs in 3 years
On 8/16/2013 11:58 AM, Toddster wrote:
>
> I am preparing to start building a Pietenpol in February.
> I deciding where to start I thought it might be helpful to get some feedback
from those of you who have completed or are nearing completion of their aircraft.
>
> My initial thought was to do the wings since it seems be the single most time
consuming task, but it might also be nice to get something done (relatively)
quickly when starting out.
>
> Suggestions?
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406855#406855
>
>
--
Ben Charvet, PharmD
Staff Pharmacist
Parrish Medical center
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: For those of you who finished where did you start |
building?
| From: | airlion2(at)gmail.com |
Jack, a friend of mine here building a gn needs a prop for his a65 . I sugge
sted. A cloud cars. Don t you have one and what kind of performance do you g
et out of it? Cheers, gardiner
Sent from my iPad
On Aug 16, 2013, at 3:51 PM, "Jack Phillips" wrot
e:
> Todd,
>
> You've already gotten lot's of good advice. It doesn't really matter wher
e you start. I did ribs first, then wings, then tail, then centersection, t
hen fuselage, but it really doesn't matter. Just break it down into a bunch
of small manageable projects. It's a whole lot easier to think about build
ing a rib than the enormity of building a whole airplane.
>
> As Scott said, try to do something on it every day, just to keep your mind
in it. If you stop working on it for a few days, that can easily turn into
a few weeks or months and pretty soon you don't know what you were working o
n last and it becomes difficult to get back into it. I've got a brother who
has had a Hatz biplane almost ready to cover for 27 years, because he "took
a break" from it back in 1986 when his daughter was born. Now it looks lik
e an enormous project to him.
>
> One thing to consider if you are getting your wood from one of the big com
panies like Aircraft Spruce or Wicks is that shipping is very expensive, so i
t might pay to order all your long pieces (spars and longerons, and big shee
ts of aircraft plywood) together if possible, to reduce the shipping costs.
Tail pieces are easy to store, as are wing ribs. A completed wing can be h
ung from a wall or the ceiling. The fuselage is the most cumbersome of the m
ain pieces of the airplane so if you have cramped building quarters, that mi
ght be the deciding factor as to where to start.
>
> As for doing the wings first because it seems to be the most time consumin
g task, what you will find is that building all the structure takes less tha
n half the time to finish the airplane. Builders commonly are at the point i
n their project where they are "90% done and 90% to go". That happens about
the point where all the structure is complete. Designing, fabricating and i
nstalling all the systems (fuel system, brakes, controls, electrical system i
f so equipped, instruments, etc.) takes a large amount of time, as does cove
ring and painting.
>
> Just enjoy the process. Don't be in too big of a hurry to get it flying -
there will be plenty of time for that. You may find, as several of us have
, that without an airplane project to work on you feel a bit lost, after you
r Pietenpol is done and flying. I'm now building one of the Van's RV's (Ram
p Vermin), but I find building a kit to be much less satisfying than buildin
g from scratch.
>
> Before Mike Cuy can say it, I'll advise that you buy at least the first tw
o of the Tony Bingelis books (available from EAA), The Sportplane Builder an
d Sportplane Construction Techniques. There you will find many of your ques
tions answered in generous detail. And attend the annual Pietenpol Fly-in i
n Brodhead, Wisconsin. There you will typically see a couple of dozen Piete
npols, and no two are alike.
>
> Jack Phillips
> NX899JP
> Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-li
st-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Toddster
> Sent: Friday, August 16, 2013 11:58 AM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: For those of you who finished where did you start
building?
>
>
>
> I am preparing to start building a Pietenpol in February.
> I deciding where to start I thought it might be helpful to get some feedba
ck from those of you who have completed or are nearing completion of their a
ircraft.
>
> My initial thought was to do the wings since it seems be the single most t
ime consuming task, but it might also be nice to get something done (relativ
ely) quickly when starting out.
>
> Suggestions?
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406855#406855
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: For those of you who finished where did you start |
building?
| From: | Greg Bacon <gbacon67(at)gmail.com> |
Todd,
Some things to consider:
There are often good deals to be found on unfinished piet projects.
Picking up where someone lost interested can save time and money (see
attached). You can often find these advertised on Barnstormers (
www.barnstormers.com) and in the Brodhead Pietenpol Association newsletter (
http://www.pietenpols.org/index.html). Over the years, I've seen some good
projects sell with lots of extra parts for little money, sometimes cheaper
than the cost of the materials! But, be wary of build quality and
deviations from the plans.
The BPA newsletter is a great resource as well. Subscribe to this. It's a
great source of inspiration and building tips. You can also purchase back
issues of the newletters. Lastly, check out the suggested reading list
here - http://www.pietenpols.org/id1.html. The old "Flying and Glider
Manuals" from 1929 thru 1933 are fun reading and full of interesting info.
Greg Bacon
NX114D, Mountain Piet
On Fri, Aug 16, 2013 at 3:29 PM, Chuck Campbell wrote:
> Todd, I started on the tail surfaces. Next, I did the wing ribs -- then
> started on the fulelage. Stopped the fuse to build the wings. Listen to
> Jack's advice -- I last worked on my project last October. Wife and I both
> had cancers removed and we bought a new house nearer to our kids. Am now
> in the process of selling the old house. The "project" is now in storage
> in a grandson's garage. Gotta get started back on it. Maybe this fall
> after the closing on our house. Chuck
>
> ------------------------------
> From: jack(at)bedfordlandings.com
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: For those of you who finished where did you
> start building?
> Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2013 15:51:56 -0400
>
>
> Todd,
>
>
> You've already gotten lot's of good advice. It doesn't really matter
> where you start. I did ribs first, then wings, then tail, then
> centersection, then fuselage, but it really doesn't matter. Just break it
> down into a bunch of small manageable projects. It's a whole lot easier to
> think about building a rib than the enormity of building a whole airplane.
>
>
> As Scott said, try to do something on it every day, just to keep your mind
> in it. If you stop working on it for a few days, that can easily turn into
> a few weeks or months and pretty soon you don't know what you were working
> on last and it becomes difficult to get back into it. I've got a brother
> who has had a Hatz biplane almost ready to cover for 27 years, because he
> "took a break" from it back in 1986 when his daughter was born. Now it
> looks like an enormous project to him.
>
>
> One thing to consider if you are getting your wood from one of the big
> companies like Aircraft Spruce or Wicks is that shipping is very expensive,
> so it might pay to order all your long pieces (spars and longerons, and big
> sheets of aircraft plywood) together if possible, to reduce the shipping
> costs. Tail pieces are easy to store, as are wing ribs. A completed wing
> can be hung from a wall or the ceiling. The fuselage is the most
> cumbersome of the main pieces of the airplane so if you have cramped
> building quarters, that might be the deciding factor as to where to start.
>
>
> As for doing the wings first because it seems to be the most time
> consuming task, what you will find is that building all the structure takes
> less than half the time to finish the airplane. Builders commonly are at
> the point in their project where they are "90% done and 90% to go". That
> happens about the point where all the structure is complete. Designing,
> fabricating and installing all the systems (fuel system, brakes, controls,
> electrical system if so equipped, instruments, etc.) takes a large amount
> of time, as does covering and painting.
>
>
> Just enjoy the process. Don't be in too big of a hurry to get it flying
> - there will be plenty of time for that. You may find, as several of us
> have, that without an airplane project to work on you feel a bit lost,
> after your Pietenpol is done and flying. I'm now building one of the Van's
> RV's (Ramp Vermin), but I find building a kit to be much less satisfying
> than building from scratch.
>
>
> Before Mike Cuy can say it, I'll advise that you buy at least the first
> two of the Tony Bingelis books (available from EAA), *The Sportplane
> Builder* and *Sportplane Construction Techniques*. There you will find
> many of your questions answered in generous detail. And attend the annual
> Pietenpol Fly-in in Brodhead, Wisconsin. There you will typically see a
> couple of dozen Pietenpols, and no two are alike.
>
>
> Jack Phillips
>
> NX899JP
>
> Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Toddster
> Sent: Friday, August 16, 2013 11:58 AM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: For those of you who finished where did you start
> building?
>
>
> >
>
>
> I am preparing to start building a Pietenpol in February.
>
> I deciding where to start I thought it might be helpful to get some
> feedback from those of you who have completed or are nearing completion of
> their aircraft.
>
>
> My initial thought was to do the wings since it seems be the single most
> time consuming task, but it might also be nice to get something done
> (relatively) quickly when starting out.
>
>
> Suggestions?
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406855#406855
>
>
> *
>
> ==========
> st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> ===========http://forums.matronics.com
> ==========
> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ==========
> *
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
--
Greg Bacon
Prairie Home, MO
NX114D(Mountain Piet)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
The idea of building a simple fuselage mockup is excellent. If you don't p
lan to start your actual build for several months and you have some basic t
ools=2C just go down and buy some inexpensive pine planks and plywood=2C pl
us some wood glue=2C and spend a couple of weekends building a fuselage moc
kup. It only needs to be from firewall to pilot's seat back and only needs
to include enough of the framing to give you a sturdy mockup that you can
sit in and get an idea of the fit. You could get fancier and assemble a si
mple rudder bar and walking beam with control sticks out of broomsticks or
scrap tubing so you can feel the control geometry as well=2C but that's ext
ra work.
No need for precision=2C no need to take care with glue drips=2C and you co
uld get it into shape pretty quickly if you have a staple gun. If you have
a shop with a scrap bin=2C you could probably build it out of things that
you already have in your scrap bin and lumber cutoff pile.
Oscar Zuniga
Medford=2C OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ben Charvet <bencharvet(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: fuselage mockup |
Thats what I did. Ripped the 1X1 longerons from 2X4's, cheap door skin
plywood and wood glue. I was able to reuse the jig for the actual fuse
sides too.
Ben
On 8/17/2013 12:50 PM, Oscar Zuniga wrote:
>
> The idea of building a simple fuselage mockup is excellent. If you
> don't plan to start your actual build for several months and you have
> some basic tools, just go down and buy some inexpensive pine planks
> and plywood, plus some wood glue, and spend a couple of weekends
> building a fuselage mockup. It only needs to be from firewall to
> pilot's seat back and only needs to include enough of the framing to
> give you a sturdy mockup that you can sit in and get an idea of the
> fit. You could get fancier and assemble a simple rudder bar and
> walking beam with control sticks out of broomsticks or scrap tubing so
> you can feel the control geometry as well, but that's extra work.
>
> No need for precision, no need to take care with glue drips, and you
> could get it into shape pretty quickly if you have a staple gun. If
> you have a shop with a scrap bin, you could probably build it out of
> things that you already have in your scrap bin and lumber cutoff pile.
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> Medford, OR
> Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
> A75 power
>
> *
>
>
> *
--
Ben Charvet, PharmD
Staff Pharmacist
Parrish Medical center
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: fuselage mockup |
| From: | John Kuhfahl <kuhlcouper(at)gmail.com> |
Cool idea. Put as much realism as possible. Even in a re-build,I put my
instruments right where the wing cross brace wires needed to go.John
On Sat, Aug 17, 2013 at 1:42 PM, Ben Charvet wrote:
> Thats what I did. Ripped the 1X1 longerons from 2X4's, cheap door skin
> plywood and wood glue. I was able to reuse the jig for the actual fuse
> sides too.
>
> Ben
>
> On 8/17/2013 12:50 PM, Oscar Zuniga wrote:
>
>
> The idea of building a simple fuselage mockup is excellent. If you don't
> plan to start your actual build for several months and you have some basic
> tools, just go down and buy some inexpensive pine planks and plywood, plus
> some wood glue, and spend a couple of weekends building a fuselage mockup.
> It only needs to be from firewall to pilot's seat back and only needs
> to include enough of the framing to give you a sturdy mockup that you can
> sit in and get an idea of the fit. You could get fancier and assemble a
> simple rudder bar and walking beam with control sticks out of broomsticks
> or scrap tubing so you can feel the control geometry as well, but that's
> extra work.
>
> No need for precision, no need to take care with glue drips, and you could
> get it into shape pretty quickly if you have a staple gun. If you have a
> shop with a scrap bin, you could probably build it out of things that you
> already have in your scrap bin and lumber cutoff pile.
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> Medford, OR
> Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
> A75 power
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
> --
> Ben Charvet, PharmD
> Staff Pharmacist
> Parrish Medical center
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
--
John Kuhfahl, Lt Col USAF (Ret),
President, KUHLCOUPER LLC
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: fuselage mockup |
| From: | Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
It is a great idea, and you can prevent screwing up some expensive spruce
by having already going through the motions one time on the mock fuse. And
the kids can play with it when you are done, it the summer you can make a
swing out of it and in the winter with that curved bottom it makes a kind
of weird sled.
rick h
On Sat, Aug 17, 2013 at 10:50 AM, Oscar Zuniga wrote:
>
> The idea of building a simple fuselage mockup is excellent. If you don't
> plan to start your actual build for several months and you have some basic
> tools, just go down and buy some inexpensive pine planks and plywood, plus
> some wood glue, and spend a couple of weekends building a fuselage mockup.
> It only needs to be from firewall to pilot's seat back and only needs
> to include enough of the framing to give you a sturdy mockup that you can
> sit in and get an idea of the fit. You could get fancier and assemble a
> simple rudder bar and walking beam with control sticks out of broomsticks
> or scrap tubing so you can feel the control geometry as well, but that's
> extra work.
>
> No need for precision, no need to take care with glue drips, and you could
> get it into shape pretty quickly if you have a staple gun. If you have a
> shop with a scrap bin, you could probably build it out of things that you
> already have in your scrap bin and lumber cutoff pile.
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> Medford, OR
> Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
> A75 power
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
NX6819Z
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: fuselage mockup |
| From: | danhelsper(at)aol.com |
All this talk about building fake fuselages. My building time was so precio
us I couldn't stand the thought of spending time making something fake and
unairworthy. Its not that complicated. Just look at the plans and start cut
ting the real stuff. That's why I say make the ribs first. That is where th
e learning curve is achieved. Sorry guys.
(Designated Curmudgeon while Larry is gone)
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN
-----Original Message-----
From: Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Sat, Aug 17, 2013 7:44 pm
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: fuselage mockup
It is a great idea, and you can prevent screwing up some expensive spruce
by having already going through the motions one time on the mock fuse. And
the kids can play with it when you are done, it the summer you can make a s
wing out of it and in the winter with that curved bottom it makes a kind of
weird sled.
rick h
On Sat, Aug 17, 2013 at 10:50 AM, Oscar Zuniga wrot
e:
The idea of building a simple fuselage mockup is excellent. If you don't p
lan to start your actual build for several months and you have some basic t
ools, just go down and buy some inexpensive pine planks and plywood, plus s
ome wood glue, and spend a couple of weekends building a fuselage mockup.
It only needs to be from firewall to pilot's seat back and only needs to in
clude enough of the framing to give you a sturdy mockup that you can sit in
and get an idea of the fit. You could get fancier and assemble a simple r
udder bar and walking beam with control sticks out of broomsticks or scrap
tubing so you can feel the control geometry as well, but that's extra work.
No need for precision, no need to take care with glue drips, and you could
get it into shape pretty quickly if you have a staple gun. If you have a s
hop with a scrap bin, you could probably build it out of things that you al
ready have in your scrap bin and lumber cutoff pile.
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power
" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
NX6819Z
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: fuselage mockup |
| From: | airlion2(at)gmail.com |
I agree Dan. Also if you make the fuse wider like I did at 26 inches you won
,t have to worry about getting in. Cheers, gardiner
Sent from my iPad
On Aug 18, 2013, at 7:44 AM, danhelsper(at)aol.com wrote:
> All this talk about building fake fuselages. My building time was so preci
ous I couldn't stand the thought of spending time making something fake and u
nairworthy. Its not that complicated. Just look at the plans and start cutti
ng the real stuff. That's why I say make the ribs first. That is where the l
earning curve is achieved. Sorry guys.
>
> (Designated Curmudgeon while Larry is gone)
>
> Dan Helsper
> Puryear, TN
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
> To: pietenpol-list
> Sent: Sat, Aug 17, 2013 7:44 pm
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: fuselage mockup
>
> It is a great idea, and you can prevent screwing up some expensive spruce
by having already going through the motions one time on the mock fuse. And t
he kids can play with it when you are done, it the summer you can make a swi
ng out of it and in the winter with that curved bottom it makes a kind of we
ird sled.
>
> rick h
>
>
> On Sat, Aug 17, 2013 at 10:50 AM, Oscar Zuniga wro
te:
>>
>> The idea of building a simple fuselage mockup is excellent. If you don't
plan to start your actual build for several months and you have some basic t
ools, just go down and buy some inexpensive pine planks and plywood, plus so
me wood glue, and spend a couple of weekends building a fuselage mockup. It
only needs to be from firewall to pilot's seat back and only needs to inclu
de enough of the framing to give you a sturdy mockup that you can sit in and
get an idea of the fit. You could get fancier and assemble a simple rudder
bar and walking beam with control sticks out of broomsticks or scrap tubing
so you can feel the control geometry as well, but that's extra work.
>>
>> No need for precision, no need to take care with glue drips, and you coul
d get it into shape pretty quickly if you have a staple gun. If you have a s
hop with a scrap bin, you could probably build it out of things that you alr
eady have in your scrap bin and lumber cutoff pile.
>>
>> Oscar Zuniga
>> Medford, OR
>> Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
>> A75 power
>>
>>
>>
>> " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>> tp://forums.matronics.com
>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>
> --
> Rick Holland
> Castle Rock, Colorado
> NX6819Z
>
>
>
>
> " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> tp://forums.matronics.com
> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: fuselage mockup |
| From: | "cjborsuk" <cjborsuk(at)yahoo.com> |
Dan just beat me to the thought. If this was a new design it would be a different
story, or if you plan on redesigning the airplane (not recommended). I started
with the ribs. You can start the project with less than two hundred dollars,
build the jig and go at it. I did not build a mock up and would have felt I
was wasting building time. I drew out the larger parts on brown paper and ordered
very specific cuts from Spruce and Wicks. They are very accommodating and
it saves a lot of waste. Don't over analyze and don't over plan. Order some cap
strip (5 foot pieces), 16th inch ply, ask them to cut it for cheapest shipping,
buy the T-88 local and go to it. Plenty of examples of rib jigs on the web.
Jump in with the ribs and rest will take care of it self. The EAA website has
some good tips in their Hints for Homebuilders section.
Have fun.
Chuck
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406957#406957
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "pineymb" <airltd(at)mts.net> |
A few shots of some favorite airplanes for your viewing pleasure.
Kevin - I'm sure Edition2 will looks as great as the first.
--------
Adrian M
Winnipeg, MB
Canada
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406958#406958
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00276_121.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00266_154.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00257_113.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00246_113.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00243_443.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dick N" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
| Subject: | Re: fuselage mockup |
Great post Dan, I;m with you.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: danhelsper(at)aol.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, August 18, 2013 6:44 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: fuselage mockup
All this talk about building fake fuselages. My building time was so
precious I couldn't stand the thought of spending time making something
fake and unairworthy. Its not that complicated. Just look at the plans
and start cutting the real stuff. That's why I say make the ribs first.
That is where the learning curve is achieved. Sorry guys.
(Designated Curmudgeon while Larry is gone)
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN
-----Original Message-----
From: Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
To: pietenpol-list
Sent: Sat, Aug 17, 2013 7:44 pm
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: fuselage mockup
It is a great idea, and you can prevent screwing up some expensive
spruce by having already going through the motions one time on the mock
fuse. And the kids can play with it when you are done, it the summer you
can make a swing out of it and in the winter with that curved bottom it
makes a kind of weird sled.
rick h
On Sat, Aug 17, 2013 at 10:50 AM, Oscar Zuniga
wrote:
The idea of building a simple fuselage mockup is excellent. If you
don't plan to start your actual build for several months and you have
some basic tools, just go down and buy some inexpensive pine planks and
plywood, plus some wood glue, and spend a couple of weekends building a
fuselage mockup. It only needs to be from firewall to pilot's seat back
and only needs to include enough of the framing to give you a sturdy
mockup that you can sit in and get an idea of the fit. You could get
fancier and assemble a simple rudder bar and walking beam with control
sticks out of broomsticks or scrap tubing so you can feel the control
geometry as well, but that's extra work.
No need for precision, no need to take care with glue drips, and you
could get it into shape pretty quickly if you have a staple gun. If you
have a shop with a scrap bin, you could probably build it out of things
that you already have in your scrap bin and lumber cutoff pile.
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power
" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
NX6819Z
" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ben Charvet <bencharvet(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: fuselage mockup |
On the fuselage mock-up, that's just what I did..(that was the original
question) Wasn't suggesting everyone do it...
Ben
On 8/18/2013 12:47 PM, Dick N wrote:
> Great post Dan, I;m with you.
> Dick N.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* danhelsper(at)aol.com
> *To:* pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>
> *Sent:* Sunday, August 18, 2013 6:44 AM
> *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: fuselage mockup
>
> All this talk about building fake fuselages. My building time was
> so precious I couldn't stand the thought of spending time making
> something fake and unairworthy. Its not that complicated. Just
> look at the plans and start cutting the real stuff. That's why I
> say make the ribs first. That is where the learning curve is
> achieved. Sorry guys.
> (Designated Curmudgeon while Larry is gone)
> Dan Helsper
> Puryear, TN
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
> To: pietenpol-list
> Sent: Sat, Aug 17, 2013 7:44 pm
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: fuselage mockup
>
> It is a great idea, and you can prevent screwing up some
> expensive spruce by having already going through the motions one
> time on the mock fuse. And the kids can play with it when you are
> done, it the summer you can make a swing out of it and in the
> winter with that curved bottom it makes a kind of weird sled.
>
> rick h
>
>
> On Sat, Aug 17, 2013 at 10:50 AM, Oscar Zuniga
> > wrote:
>
>
> The idea of building a simple fuselage mockup is excellent.
> If you don't plan to start your actual build for several
> months and you have some basic tools, just go down and buy
> some inexpensive pine planks and plywood, plus some wood
> glue, and spend a couple of weekends building a fuselage
> mockup. It only needs to be from firewall to pilot's seat
> back and only needs to include enough of the framing to give
> you a sturdy mockup that you can sit in and get an idea of the
> fit. You could get fancier and assemble a simple rudder bar
> and walking beam with control sticks out of broomsticks or
> scrap tubing so you can feel the control geometry as well, but
> that's extra work.
>
> No need for precision, no need to take care with glue drips,
> and you could get it into shape pretty quickly if you have
> a staple gun. If you have a shop with a scrap bin, you could
> probably build it out of things that you already have in your
> scrap bin and lumber cutoff pile.
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> Medford, OR
> Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
> A75 power
>
> *
>
> " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> tp://forums.matronics.com
> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
> *
>
>
> --
> Rick Holland
> Castle Rock, Colorado
> NX6819Z
>
> *
>
> " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> tp://forums.matronics.com
> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
> *
>
> *
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
> *
>
> *
>
>
> *
--
Ben Charvet, PharmD
Staff Pharmacist
Parrish Medical center
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
Nice shots, Adrian! I especially like the picture of Dan Yocum's Piet!
Gary Boothe
NX308MB
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of pineymb
Sent: Sunday, August 18, 2013 6:41 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead 2012
A few shots of some favorite airplanes for your viewing pleasure.
Kevin - I'm sure Edition2 will looks as great as the first.
--------
Adrian M
Winnipeg, MB
Canada
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406958#406958
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00276_121.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00266_154.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00257_113.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00246_113.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00243_443.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Brodhead 2012 |
| From: | danhelsper(at)aol.com |
Yea me too. I gave that kid (in the background) with the Mohawk a free ride
!!
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN
-----Original Message-----
From: Gary Boothe <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Sent: Sun, Aug 18, 2013 4:42 pm
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead 2012
Nice shots, Adrian! I especially like the picture of Dan Yocum's Piet!
Gary Boothe
NX308MB
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of pineymb
Sent: Sunday, August 18, 2013 6:41 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead 2012
A few shots of some favorite airplanes for your viewing pleasure.
Kevin - I'm sure Edition2 will looks as great as the first.
--------
Adrian M
Winnipeg, MB
Canada
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406958#406958
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00276_121.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00266_154.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00257_113.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00246_113.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00243_443.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Brodhead 2012 |
| From: | Gary Boothe <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
...'cuz he didn't like the first?
Gary
Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 18, 2013, at 3:18 PM, danhelsper(at)aol.com wrote:
> Yea me too. I gave that kid (in the background) with the Mohawk a free rid
e!!
>
> Dan Helsper
> Puryear, TN
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gary Boothe <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
> To: pietenpol-list
> Sent: Sun, Aug 18, 2013 4:42 pm
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead 2012
>
>
> Nice shots, Adrian! I especially like the picture of Dan Yocum's Piet!
>
> Gary Boothe
> NX308MB
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of pineymb
> Sent: Sunday, August 18, 2013 6:41 AM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead 2012
>
>
> A few shots of some favorite airplanes for your viewing pleasure.
> Kevin - I'm sure Edition2 will looks as great as the first.
>
> --------
> Adrian M
> Winnipeg, MB
> Canada
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406958#406958
>
>
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00276_121.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00266_154.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00257_113.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00246_113.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00243_443.jpg
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> tp://forums.matronics.com
> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Brodhead 2012 |
| From: | "pineymb" <airltd(at)mts.net> |
Yep!! always liked Dan's plane - maybe a little bias, has a lot of similarities
to mine I think.
--------
Adrian M
Winnipeg, MB
Canada
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406996#406996
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gliderx5(at)comcast.net |
| Subject: | More Latex Paint |
Hi Guys, Me again.
I will be doing a webinar version of the forum that I presented at Oshkosh on
painting with Latex paint. The forum was well attended and I have received a
lot of inquiries from builders that could not make it to Airventure. The EAA's
webinars seems to be a good solution to share the information with anyone else
that is interested.
"Latex Paint for Your Homebuilt Aircraft"
You can go to http://www.eaa.org/webinars to see upcoming presentations and to
register to participate. It will be basically the same slides that are on my
web site, with my droning dialog added of course.
Keep it cheap
Malcolm Morrison
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | A Question About Lift Strut Fittings |
| From: | "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com> |
I am getting ready to start making metal fittings. I have a question specifically
about the fittings that connect the top of the lift strut to the spar.
I have seen or read other people's discussions about these lift strut fittings,
where people said the original design left little working room when trying to
work at that fitting once the wing is covered. So my question is this- did you
build your fittings to plans, and if not, how far do you recommend the fitting
should stick out below the lower capstrip of the ribs?
Thanks!
--------
Semper Fi,
Terry Hand
Athens, GA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407005#407005
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: fuselage mockup |
| From: | "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
Now, now... everyone play nice ;o) Not everyone gets to work in the shop frequently,
and not everyone has ever built something like an airplane. My suggestion
was to a particular individual who stated that they won't be starting the
construction of their actual Air Camper until next year (for whatever their reasons),
so I suggested that in the meantime it might be a fun and low-stress project
of a weekend or two to put together a very simple and low-cost mockup.
This would serve two purposes: (1) at a very minimal outlay of time and money,
it would allow the prospective builder to get a feel for how the airplane is
constructed and how it fits, and (2) if it fires some enthusiasm based on how
simple and straightforward it is, it may advance their program to just get started
now rather than waiting until February. If this builder is like me, he
is very unsure of his building skills and very concerned about doing something
inaccurately or "wrong", so just playing with some Doug fir or pine studs and
some cheap plywood means that nothing happens if the fake longeron has some wowies
or blade burns in it when it gets ripped, and nothing happens if a crosscut
goes too far. It all goes together with Elmer's glue and staples (or even
drywall screws), and nobody is going to inspect it. If it doesn't work out,
you spray paint it with camouflage paint for the kids, or you smash it into kindling
and enjoy the fire one evening.
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407009#407009
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: A Question About Lift Strut Fittings |
| From: | "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
Terry; I'm sorry I can't offer exact dimensions and I don't know whether the fittings
on 41CC are to plans or not, but perhaps you can look at the pictures here:
http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/repairs/inspection.html
The 2nd and 6th images on that page will give you some idea of what you have to
deal with in that area. Besides the heads of the strut attach bolts, you have
to slip on the tangs that the X-brace wires attach to. Another consideration,
albeit minor, is that the inspection covers need to be accessed and they are
right at the bolt heads.
You can see a very nice arrangement here:
http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/John_piet.html
Look at the 5th image from the bottom. John Dilatush installed wing tiedowns at
those strut attach points and also extended the fittings generously below the
bottom wing skin so that a box-end wrench or socket could be put over the nuts
on the attach fitting bolts. You might put a socket on your ratchet and see
how much space you need to get it onto a nut that is tight up against a surface.
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407010#407010
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Brodhead 2012 |
| From: | "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
Scout's nemesis will always be Niner Niner Kilo Papa. We don't stand a snowball's
chance in hell of ever catching him, much less with his eyes blinded by the
sun, but Fat Bottomed Girl smoked my tail so badly that I will never forget
it. Me and my buddy took off from Old Kingsbury Aerodrome so pleased with ourselves
and the next thing we know as we are leveled off in cruise, "HONK, HONK!"-
there's Niner Kilo Papa climbing up our tailpipe like we were standing still.
Dang it, Axel!
One of these days I'll get even.
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407012#407012
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Missing posts |
| From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
Yep... this was brought up a while back... not sure what the fix is.
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage and Fuse framed up - Working on Landing Gear
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407013#407013
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: A Question About Lift Strut Fittings |
| From: | Ken Bickers <bickers.ken(at)gmail.com> |
Terry, the new improved plans from 1934 show both the original strut attach strap
design and a new design that Mr. Pietenpol recommended as a replacement. The
'new' design can be easily lengthened by a small amount.
On Aug 18, 2013, at 7:11 PM, "jarheadpilot82" wrote:
>
> I am getting ready to start making metal fittings. I have a question specifically
about the fittings that connect the top of the lift strut to the spar.
>
> I have seen or read other people's discussions about these lift strut fittings,
where people said the original design left little working room when trying
to work at that fitting once the wing is covered. So my question is this- did
you build your fittings to plans, and if not, how far do you recommend the fitting
should stick out below the lower capstrip of the ribs?
>
> Thanks!
>
> --------
> Semper Fi,
>
> Terry Hand
> Athens, GA
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407005#407005
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Brodhead 2012 |
| From: | danhelsper(at)aol.com |
No....I was trying to get him to carry my gas can into town.....
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN
-----Original Message-----
From: Gary Boothe <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Sent: Sun, Aug 18, 2013 5:34 pm
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead 2012
...'cuz he didn't like the first?
Gary
Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 18, 2013, at 3:18 PM, danhelsper(at)aol.com wrote:
Yea me too. I gave that kid (in the background) with the Mohawk a free ride
!!
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN
-----Original Message-----
From: Gary Boothe <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Sent: Sun, Aug 18, 2013 4:42 pm
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead 2012
Nice shots, Adrian! I especially like the picture of Dan Yocum's Piet!
Gary Boothe
NX308MB
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of pineymb
Sent: Sunday, August 18, 2013 6:41 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead 2012
A few shots of some favorite airplanes for your viewing pleasure.
Kevin - I'm sure Edition2 will looks as great as the first.
--------
Adrian M
Winnipeg, MB
Canada
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406958#406958
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00276_121.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00266_154.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00257_113.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00246_113.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00243_443.jpg
" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: For those of you who finished where did you start |
building?
Hello Todd and welcome.=0A=0AI started- my project building ribs for two
reasons. To me, repetitive work gets really boring really fast, so I chose
to start with making ribs because I knew my motivation level would be quite
high at the start of this new project.- I left the work I was looking fo
rward to the most for last, building the fuselage. Second, I chose to make
my own ribs from scratch using rough cut spruce purchased in bulk. This was
less expensive to purchase and I like making my own parts anyway, so it wa
s fun for me.- As long as you start...and hopefully finish, what/how you
begin doesn't matter.=0A=0A=0A-=0AMichael Perez=0APietenpol HINT Videos
=0AKaretaker Aero=0Awww.karetakeraero.com=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: More Latex Paint |
| From: | "womenfly2" <Love2Fly.KAP(at)gmail.com> |
Just registered.
Thanks,
~WF2
--------
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407024#407024
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: More Latex Paint |
| From: | Greg Bacon <gbacon67(at)gmail.com> |
Thanks Malcolm. I just registered as well.
Greg Bacon
NX114D
On Sun, Aug 18, 2013 at 6:33 PM, wrote:
> Hi Guys, Me again.
>
> I will be doing a webinar version of the forum that I presented at Oshkosh
> on
> painting with Latex paint. The forum was well attended and I have received
> a
> lot of inquiries from builders that could not make it to Airventure. The
> EAA's
> webinars seems to be a good solution to share the information with anyone
> else
> that is interested.
>
> "Latex Paint for Your Homebuilt Aircraft"
>
> You can go to http://www.eaa.org/webinars to see upcoming presentations
> and to
> register to participate. It will be basically the same slides that are on
> my
> web site, with my droning dialog added of course.
>
> Keep it cheap
> Malcolm Morrison
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
--
Greg Bacon
Prairie Home, MO
NX114D(Mountain Piet)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lawrence Williams <lnawms(at)yahoo.com> |
Mr. Helsperetal,
It is true, I Larry Williams (aka. Top Curmudgeon) have returned to actively scanning
the daily digest ;ever vigilant for some poor soul who inadvertently posts
a question that has been answered 500 times in the past 6 months or asks something
so off-base that his ability to build a true flying machine is doubtful.
(for those....well, we banish them to Belize!)
As I have been on sabbatical, I have come closer to being "one with the sky" and
have therefore gained a sense of clarity, charity and compassion. As a result,
the fiery barbs from my keyboard will likely be much more infrequent and less
harsh than what was the norm in days gone by. Not by any means nice, just gentler............maybe.
Larry (TC) Williams
ps. Trying to get to Blakesburg, IA and Brodhead for the antique/grass roots fly-ins
in the next couple of weeks. Anyone else???
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Dynamic balancing ? |
| From: | "scudrun" <jstreet(at)uwaterloo.ca> |
Dan I like your balancer. One thing I can add though from my own experience is
that the CG of the prop is not on the top surface, it is inside 'somewhere close'
to one half the thickness of the hub. If you machine a plug that fits the
bore of the prop shaft hole, then you can lower the fulcrum point into the
bore of the prop shaft hole in the prop. The balancer becomes way more sensitive.
You can also make different plugs to fit different props if needed. You
want to get close to the 3D CG point, slightly above it. If below obviously it
will never balance. Rather than relying on the bubble level, simply get a length
of clear plastic tubing and clamp it to the table on each side by the propeller
tips. Add water to the tube till the level is adjacent to the prop tip.
Gravity is a harsh mistress but in this case she gives us a super accurate
reference line. If you want to involve children as a learning experience, get
them to add the water with food coloring, they'll have fun and learn something
at the same time!
Joe
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407033#407033
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dick N" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
| Subject: | Re: T.C. is back |
Hi Larry
I am glad your back. I am going with wifee to AAA on Labor Day
Weekend. I hope to see you there.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: Lawrence Williams
To: Pietlist
Sent: Monday, August 19, 2013 8:27 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: T.C. is back
Mr. Helsper et al,
It is true, I Larry Williams (aka. Top Curmudgeon) have returned to
actively scanning the daily digest ;ever vigilant for some poor soul who
inadvertently posts a question that has been answered 500 times in the
past 6 months or asks something so off-base that his ability to build a
true flying machine is doubtful. (for those....well, we banish them to
Belize!)
As I have been on sabbatical, I have come closer to being "one with
the sky" and have therefore gained a sense of clarity, charity and
compassion. As a result, the fiery barbs from my keyboard will likely be
much more infrequent and less harsh than what was the norm in days gone
by. Not by any means nice, just gentler............maybe.
Larry (TC) Williams
ps. Trying to get to Blakesburg, IA and Brodhead for the antique/grass
roots fly-ins in the next couple of weeks. Anyone else???
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: T.C. is back |
| From: | Jack <jack(at)textors.com> |
Dick you flying or driving? Haven't been there for 3 or 4 years. May try and
rearrange my schedule to attend via motorhome...
Sent from my iPad
Jack Textor
On Aug 19, 2013, at 11:19 AM, "Dick N" wrote:
> Hi Larry
> I am glad your back. I am going with wifee to AAA on Labor Day Weekend.
I hope to see you there.
> Dick N.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Lawrence Williams
> To: Pietlist
> Sent: Monday, August 19, 2013 8:27 AM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: T.C. is back
>
> Mr. Helsper et al,
>
> It is true, I Larry Williams (aka. Top Curmudgeon) have returned to active
ly scanning the daily digest ;ever vigilant for some poor soul who inadverte
ntly posts a question that has been answered 500 times in the past 6 months o
r asks something so off-base that his ability to build a true flying machine
is doubtful. (for those....well, we banish them to Belize!)
>
> As I have been on sabbatical, I have come closer to being "one with the sk
y" and have therefore gained a sense of clarity, charity and compassion. As a
result, the fiery barbs from my keyboard will likely be much more infrequen
t and less harsh than what was the norm in days gone by. Not by any means ni
ce, just gentler............maybe.
>
> Larry (TC) Williams
>
> ps. Trying to get to Blakesburg, IA and Brodhead for the antique/grass roo
ts fly-ins in the next couple of weeks. Anyone else???
>
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matr
onics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Dynamic balancing ? |
| From: | danhelsper(at)aol.com |
Joe,
Yes good point about trying to lower the fulcrum point. This would give a m
ore accurate reading.
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN
-----Original Message-----
From: scudrun <jstreet(at)uwaterloo.ca>
Sent: Mon, Aug 19, 2013 9:57 am
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Dynamic balancing ?
Dan I like your balancer. One thing I can add though from my own experienc
e is
that the CG of the prop is not on the top surface, it is inside 'somewhere
close' to one half the thickness of the hub. If you machine a plug that f
its
the bore of the prop shaft hole, then you can lower the fulcrum point into
the
bore of the prop shaft hole in the prop. The balancer becomes way more
sensitive. You can also make different plugs to fit different props if nee
ded.
You want to get close to the 3D CG point, slightly above it. If below obvi
ously
it will never balance. Rather than relying on the bubble level, simply get
a
length of clear plastic tubing and clamp it to the table on each side by th
e
propeller tips. Add water to the tube till the level is adjacent to the pr
op
tip. Gravity is a harsh mistress but in this case she gives us a super acc
urate
reference line. If you want to involve children as a learning experience, g
et
them to add the water with food coloring, they'll h!
ave fun and learn something at the same time!
Joe
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407033#407033
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: T.C. is back |
| From: | danhelsper(at)aol.com |
Thank God. Now I don't have to be quite as vigilante while scanning the lis
t posts!
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN
-----Original Message-----
From: Lawrence Williams <lnawms(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Mon, Aug 19, 2013 8:28 am
Subject: Pietenpol-List: T.C. is back
Mr. Helsper et al,
It is true, I Larry Williams (aka. Top Curmudgeon) have returned to activel
y scanning the daily digest ;ever vigilant for some poor soul who inadverte
ntly posts a question that has been answered 500 times in the past 6 months
or asks something so off-base that his ability to build a true flying mach
ine is doubtful. (for those....well, we banish them to Belize!)
As I have been on sabbatical, I have come closer to being "one with the sky
" and have therefore gained a sense of clarity, charity and compassion. As
a result, the fiery barbs from my keyboard will likely be much more infrequ
ent and less harsh than what was the norm in days gone by. Not by any means
nice, just gentler............maybe.
Larry (TC) Williams
ps. Trying to get to Blakesburg, IA and Brodhead for the antique/grass root
s fly-ins in the next couple of weeks. Anyone else???
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dick N" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
| Subject: | Re: T.C. is back |
Hi Jack
I am taking my camper we will be in the SW campground. I hope you can
make it also.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: Jack
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, August 19, 2013 12:10 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: T.C. is back
Dick you flying or driving? Haven't been there for 3 or 4 years. May
try and rearrange my schedule to attend via motorhome...
Sent from my iPad
Jack Textor
On Aug 19, 2013, at 11:19 AM, "Dick N"
wrote:
Hi Larry
I am glad your back. I am going with wifee to AAA on Labor Day
Weekend. I hope to see you there.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: Lawrence Williams
To: Pietlist
Sent: Monday, August 19, 2013 8:27 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: T.C. is back
Mr. Helsper et al,
It is true, I Larry Williams (aka. Top Curmudgeon) have returned
to actively scanning the daily digest ;ever vigilant for some poor soul
who inadvertently posts a question that has been answered 500 times in
the past 6 months or asks something so off-base that his ability to
build a true flying machine is doubtful. (for those....well, we banish
them to Belize!)
As I have been on sabbatical, I have come closer to being "one
with the sky" and have therefore gained a sense of clarity, charity and
compassion. As a result, the fiery barbs from my keyboard will likely be
much more infrequent and less harsh than what was the norm in days gone
by. Not by any means nice, just gentler............maybe.
Larry (TC) Williams
ps. Trying to get to Blakesburg, IA and Brodhead for the
antique/grass roots fly-ins in the next couple of weeks. Anyone else???
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
Inspecting my Narco ELT-10 for annual=2C I find that the battery has create
d corrosion that has damaged the printed circuit board and battery connecto
r=2C so it's now junk. I do not want to spend the money on a "real" 406 MH
z ELT so I'm looking for an old standard 121.5 MHz ELT like my Narco or the
thousands of other yellow and orange ELTs that used to be in every Cessna
and Piper out there. If someone has one they would like to sell or if they
can refer me to a shop or individual that may have one=2C let me know (off
line).
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
Medford=2C OR
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dortch, Steven D MAJ MIL USA NGB" <steven.d.dortch(at)us.army.mil> |
UNCLASSIFIED
Before you buy. Sure consider the ones that use the coppertop D cell batteries
rather than the custom (expensive) batteries.
Steve
On 08/19/13, Oscar Zuniga wrote:
>
>
>
> Inspecting my Narco ELT-10 for annual, I find that the battery has created corrosion
that has damaged the printed circuit board and battery connector, so it's
now junk. I do not want to spend the money on a "real" 406 MHz ELT so I'm
looking for an old standard 121.5 MHz ELT like my Narco or the thousands of other
yellow and orange ELTs that used to be in every Cessna and Piper out there.
If someone has one they would like to sell or if they can refer me to a shop
or individual that may have one, let me know (offline).
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
> Medford, OR
>
>
>
UNCLASSIFIED
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com> |
ELT's are famous for that, I always take ours apart at the annual and clean
it and put a little no-ox grease- or corrosion prevention compound on th
e batts to try to prevent that.=0A-=0AShad=0A =0A=0A_____________________
___________=0A From: "Dortch, Steven D MAJ MIL USA NGB" <steven.d.dortch@us
.army.mil>=0ATo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com =0ASent: Monday, August 19, 2
013 3:50 PM=0ASubject: Re: Pietenpol-List: ELT wanted =0A =0A=0A--> Pieten
pol-List message posted by: "Dortch, Steven D MAJ MIL USA NGB" =0A=0AUNCLASSIFIED=0ABefore you buy. Sure consider the one
s that use the coppertop D cell batteries rather than the custom (expensive
) batteries.=0A=0ASteve =0A=0AOn 08/19/13, Oscar Zuniga wrote:=0A> =0A> =0A
> =0A> Inspecting my Narco ELT-10 for annual, I find that the battery has c
reated corrosion that has damaged the printed circuit board and battery con
nector, so it's now junk. I do not want to spend the money on a "real" 406
MHz ELT so I'm looking for an old standard 121.5 MHz ELT like my Narco or t
he thousands of other yellow and orange ELTs that used to be in every Cessn
a and Piper out there. If someone has one they would like to sell or if the
y can refer me to a shop or individual that may have one, let me know (offl
ine).=0A> =0A> Oscar Zuniga=0A> Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"=0A> Medford, OR
==
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
[UNCLASSIFIED] Steve: even the "custom" batteries for a standard ELT are less cost
than the cheapest 406 MHz ELT, so I'm not going to be too picky at this point.
I just need one for annual condx inspection.
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407060#407060
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: For those of you who finished where did you start |
building?
| From: | "Toddster" <ToddKammerdiener(at)msn.com> |
If you don't mind me asking, where did you get the rough cut spruce?
Thanks,
Todd
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407102#407102
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: For those of you who finished where did you start |
building?
I bought most of mine from Public Lumber and some from McCormick Lumber.-
It appears both websites have changed are are now not as user friendly as
they were when I used them. I would imagine a phone call will get you what
you are after.=0A-=0AAt the time, I was able to pick and choose widths an
d thickness along with length. I believe I bought 1" X 8" X 6' and made all
my capstrip for the ribs. As time went on I bought various sizes-to cut
up-what was needed for the current stage of building.- Shipping was not
too bad, otherwise I would have tried something else. (all UPS or FedEx.)
- =0A-=0AIt is also nice to cut your own because you can get the most o
ut of the stock...if you plan well prior to cutting.=0A-=0A-=0A=0AMicha
el Perez=0APietenpol HINT Videos=0AKaretaker Aero=0Awww.karetakeraero.com
=0A=0A=0A>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org> |
Oscar,
Are there any aircraft salvage yards near you? You could get a previously enjoyed
or tested one from a place like that. A lot of airplanes get salvaged that
haven't had severe accidents. Ground loops come to mind. Perhaps Wentworth
aircraft or someone near you will have one. Just get in touch with our friend
"Google". He can help you out.
Good luck,
--------
Scott Liefeld
Flying N11MS since March 1972
Steel Tube
C-85-12
Wire Wheels
Brodhead in 1996
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407114#407114
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Sanders, Andrew P" <andrew.p.sanders(at)boeing.com> |
Oscar:
I have a spare Narco ELT-10 that you are welcome to for the price of shippi
ng.
If that is acceptable to you, send me your "Snail Mail" address off list.
I will be at the hangar this weekend and will dig it out then.
Also, would you like it "heavy" (with a recently expired battery) or "light
" (without).
Regards,
Andrew
C-177 "Cardinal"
N2206Y w/180 hp & CS.
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com<mailto:taildrags(at)hotmail.co
m>>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: ELT wanted
Inspecting my Narco ELT-10 for annual=2C I find that the battery ha
s create
d corrosion that has damaged the printed circuit board and battery co
nnecto
r=2C so it's now junk. I do not want to spend the money on a "real
" 406 MH
z ELT so I'm looking for an old standard 121.5 MHz ELT like my Narco
or the
thousands of other yellow and orange ELTs that used to be in every C
essna
and Piper out there. If someone has one they would like to sell or i
f they
can refer me to a shop or individual that may have one=2C let me k
now (off
line).
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
Medford=2C OR
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: For those of you who finished where did you start |
building?
| From: | "jammer" <nokkj(at)yahoo.com> |
I started building in a winter month also. I did all the metal fittings and assemblies
first so I didn't have to worry about my cold basement causing problems
with glue setting up. I only had to heat a very small space to get them all
cut out and welded up. When it warmed up I started in on other smaller stuff
like rudders, elevators, wing ribs and whatever I could store in my garage.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407127#407127
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chuck Campbell <cncampbell(at)outlook.com> |
Andrew=2C if Oscar doesn't want it I will take it. My Piet is not as far a
long as his but I will need an ELT eventually. If Oscar doesn't want it=2C
send it "light" to:
CN Campbelll=2C 604 Cordova Court=2C Salisbury=2C NC 28146.
Don't know how you want to handle the shipping expenses. If you send it pr
epaid=2C I will reimburse you. Thanks=2C Chuck
From: andrew.p.sanders(at)boeing.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: ELT wanted
Date: Tue=2C 20 Aug 2013 16:43:42 +0000
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
Oscar:=0A
=0A
I have a spare Narco ELT-10 that you are welcome to for the price of shippi
ng.=0A
=0A
If that is acceptable to you=2C send me your =93Snail Mail=94 address off l
ist. I will be at the hangar this weekend and will dig it out then.=0A
=0A
Also=2C would you like it =93heavy=94 (with a recently expired battery) or
=93light=94 (without).=0A
=0A
Regards=2C=0A
Andrew=0A
=0A
C-177 =93Cardinal=94=0A
N2206Y w/180 hp & CS.=0A
=0A
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>=0A
Subject: Pietenpol-List: ELT wanted=0A
=0A
Inspecting my Narco ELT-10 for annual=2C I find that the battery has crea
te=0A
d corrosion that has damaged the printed circuit board and battery connecto
=0A
r=2C so it's now junk. I do not want to spend the money on a "real" 406
MH=0A
z ELT so I'm looking for an old standard 121.5 MHz ELT like my Narco or the
=0A
thousands of other yellow and orange ELTs that used to be in every Cessna
=0A
and Piper out there. If someone has one they would like to sell or if they
=0A
can refer me to a shop or individual that may have one=2C let me know (o
ff=0A
line).=0A
=0A
=0A
Oscar Zuniga=0A
=0A
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"=0A
=0A
Medford=2C OR =0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
============0A
============0A
============0A
============0A
=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: For those of you who finished where did you start |
building?
| From: | Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
I still have several fittings that I made in advance hanging above my
workbench that I had to remake after finding the finished sizes of many
glued/welded parts were different than plans. Wife wants me to make
windchimes out of them. Would wait on making fittings until you need them
to hold something together.
rh
On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 3:26 PM, jammer wrote:
>
> I started building in a winter month also. I did all the metal fittings
> and assemblies first so I didn't have to worry about my cold basement
> causing problems with glue setting up. I only had to heat a very small
> space to get them all cut out and welded up. When it warmed up I started
> in on other smaller stuff like rudders, elevators, wing ribs and whatever I
> could store in my garage.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407127#407127
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
NX6819Z
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
btw - just finished my airworthiness last Saturday and yes the DAR did ask
to see my ELT. Didn't care if it worked or even had batteries in it. I got
it off ebay for $19 + $50 shipping, from Aukland NZ.
rh
On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 3:34 PM, Chuck Campbell wro
te:
> Andrew, if Oscar doesn't want it I will take it. My Piet is not as far
> along as his but I will need an ELT eventually. If Oscar doesn't want it
,
> send it "light" to:
> CN Campbelll, 604 Cordova Court, Salisbury, NC 28146.
>
> Don't know how you want to handle the shipping expenses. If you send it
> prepaid, I will reimburse you. Thanks, Chuck
> ------------------------------
> From: andrew.p.sanders(at)boeing.com
> To: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: ELT wanted
> Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 16:43:42 +0000
>
> Oscar:
>
> I have a spare Narco ELT-10 that you are welcome to for the price of
> shipping.
>
> If that is acceptable to you, send me your =93Snail Mail=94 address off l
ist.
> I will be at the hangar this weekend and will dig it out then.
>
> Also, would you like it =93heavy=94 (with a recently expired battery) or
> =93light=94 (without).
>
> Regards,
> Andrew
>
> C-177 =93Cardinal=94
> N2206Y w/180 hp & CS.
>
> From: Oscar Zuniga <*taildrags(at)hotmail.com* <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>>
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: ELT wanted
>
> Inspecting my Narco ELT-10 for annual=2C I find that the battery has cr
eate
> d corrosion that has damaged the printed circuit board and battery connec
to
> r=2C so it's now junk. I do not want to spend the money on a "real" 40
6 MH
> z ELT so I'm looking for an old standard 121.5 MHz ELT like my Narco or t
he
> thousands of other yellow and orange ELTs that used to be in every Cessn
a
> and Piper out there. If someone has one they would like to sell or if th
ey
> can refer me to a shop or individual that may have one=2C let me know
(off
> line).
>
>
> Oscar Zuniga
>
> Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
>
> Medford=2C OR
>
>
> *
>
> ==========
> st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> ===========http://forums.matronics.com
> ==========
> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ==========
> *
>
> *
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
> *
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
NX6819Z
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "BYD" <billsayre(at)ymail.com> |
Hello good people!
You better all grab your courage everybody because this is flying weather. Now
Im talking about the best 20 minutes of your life.
When you die and St. Peter asks you, Hey, when were you happiest down there? Youre
gonna say well, it was okay the day that I got married and I didnt much
mind the day I first fell in love but seeing the sky in my own Pietenpol Air
Camper that I built myself well sir that beats them all.
NX626E flew for the first time August 20th, 2013
(Video proof forthcoming)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407132#407132
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
Whoa-! That is the best news I've heard all day! Congratulations on a successful
first flight, but you'll need to post a lot more detail than that!
"Experimental Two-Six Echo, low pass and victory roll approved; cleared to land!"
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407133#407133
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: T.C. is back |
| From: | Rick <lmforge(at)earthlink.net> |
Larry,
I hope to be at both Blakesburg and Brodhead this year.
Rick Schreiber
Valparaiso, in
Sent from my iPad
On Aug 19, 2013, at 8:27 AM, Lawrence Williams wrote:
> Mr. Helsper et al,
>
> It is true, I Larry Williams (aka. Top Curmudgeon) have returned to active
ly scanning the daily digest ;ever vigilant for some poor soul who inadverte
ntly posts a question that has been answered 500 times in the past 6 months o
r asks something so off-base that his ability to build a true flying machine
is doubtful. (for those....well, we banish them to Belize!)
>
> As I have been on sabbatical, I have come closer to being "one with the sk
y" and have therefore gained a sense of clarity, charity and compassion. As a
result, the fiery barbs from my keyboard will likely be much more infrequen
t and less harsh than what was the norm in days gone by. Not by any means ni
ce, just gentler............maybe.
>
> Larry (TC) Williams
>
> ps. Trying to get to Blakesburg, IA and Brodhead for the antique/grass roo
ts fly-ins in the next couple of weeks. Anyone else???
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | danhelsper(at)aol.com |
Congratulations Bill!! Can't wait to see the vid!!
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN
-----Original Message-----
From: BYD <billsayre(at)ymail.com>
Sent: Tue, Aug 20, 2013 6:00 pm
Subject: Pietenpol-List: NX626E
Hello good people!
You better all grab your courage everybody because this is flying weather.
Now
I=C3=A2=C2=C2=99m talking about the best 20 minutes of your life.
When you die and St. Peter asks you, =C3=A2=C2=C2=9CHey, when were you h
appiest down
there?=C3=A2=C2=C2=9D You=C3=A2=C2=C2=99re gonna say =C3=A2=C2=C2
=93 well, it was okay the day that I got married
=C3=A2=C2=C2=93 and I didn=C3=A2=C2=C2=99t much mind the day I first
fell in love =C3=A2=C2=C2=93 but seeing the sky
in my own Pietenpol Air Camper that I built myself =C3=A2=C2=C2=93 well
sir =C3=A2=C2=C2=93 that beats
them all.
NX626E flew for the first time August 20th, 2013
(Video proof forthcoming)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407132#407132
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "TriScout" <apfelcyber(at)yahoo.com> |
I fly a GN-1 constructed by someone else, but now you're making me want to build
a Piet... Congratz!
--------
L.Metzel
KLNC
A65-8
N2308C
AN Hardware
Airframe 712TT
W72CK-42 Sensenich
Standard Factory GN-1
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407138#407138
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Greg Bacon <gbacon67(at)gmail.com> |
Congratulations Bill!! Glad to hear of your success.
On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 5:59 PM, BYD wrote:
>
> Hello good people!
>
> You better all grab your courage everybody because this is flying weather
.
> Now I=92m talking about the best 20 minutes of your life.
>
> When you die and St. Peter asks you, =93Hey, when were you happiest down
> there?=94 You=92re gonna say ' well, it was okay the day that I got mar
ried '
> and I didn=92t much mind the day I first fell in love ' but seeing the
sky in
> my own Pietenpol Air Camper that I built myself ' well sir ' that bea
ts
> them all.
>
> NX626E flew for the first time August 20th, 2013
> (Video proof forthcoming)
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407132#407132
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
--
Greg Bacon
Prairie Home, MO
NX114D(Mountain Piet)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: For those of you who finished where did you start |
building?
| From: | "thavtoohey" <HaywoodRatell(at)aol.com> |
I have an experience to share with you guys. Once I was in a remote place, my signal in my phone got jammed, i thought the problem would be with my service provider. After coming back home i gave black and blues to my customer care highlighting my issue. They pleaded me saying that the problem is not with them. Then i browsed through the search engine regarding my issue, i got a remedy for my cell phone, there i came to know the problem called signal jamming that is experienced in most cell phones. They have a product called cell phone jammer (http://www.jammerall.com/categories/Cell-Phone-Jammers/) could be very useful to get rid of these problems. Check out the details here cell phone jammer and hope this information would be beneficial. Hope that u would pass this information to all your friends, so that they too would benefited, Stay safe, Cheers
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407143#407143
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: For those of you who finished where did you start |
building?
| From: | "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com> |
Folks,
I have emailed Matt Dralle about this most recent post. Apparently the scammers
and sellers have descended on this forum. I though Matt would want to know. Hopefully,
he can block this guy, so we don't have to put up with these type posts.
--------
Semper Fi,
Terry Hand
Athens, GA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407146#407146
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: For those of you who finished where did you start |
building?
| From: | "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com> |
Folks,
I have emailed Matt Dralle about this most recent post. Apparently the scammers
and sellers have descended on this forum. I though Matt would want to know. Hopefully,
he can block this guy, so we don't have to put up with these type posts.
--------
Semper Fi,
Terry Hand
Athens, GA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407147#407147
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: For those of you who finished where did you start |
building?
| From: | "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com> |
Folks,
I have emailed Matt Dralle about this most recent post. Apparently the scammers
and sellers have descended on this forum. I though Matt would want to know. Hopefully,
he can block this guy, so we don't have to put up with these type posts.
--------
Semper Fi,
Terry Hand
Athens, GA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407145#407145
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack" <jack(at)textors.com> |
Bill very good news, congratulations!
Jack Textor
Des Moines, IA
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of BYD
Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2013 5:59 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: NX626E
Hello good people!
You better all grab your courage everybody because this is flying weather. Now
Im talking about the best 20 minutes of your life.
When you die and St. Peter asks you, Hey, when were you happiest down there? Youre
gonna say well, it was okay the day that I got married and I didnt much
mind the day I first fell in love but seeing the sky in my own Pietenpol Air
Camper that I built myself well sir that beats them all.
NX626E flew for the first time August 20th, 2013
(Video proof forthcoming)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407132#407132
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> |
CONGRATS BILL!! Well done! Send video link asap, we can't wait to see it!!
Can you remind me of the details of your plane? Engine, gear, etc?
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris Rusch" <rmdinfo(at)rmdbenders.com> |
Congrats!! WE NEED PICTURES!!
--------
NX321LR
ON THE FINAL PUSH!!
Mitsubishi Powered
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407152#407152
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org> |
So very cool.
--------
Scott Liefeld
Flying N11MS since March 1972
Steel Tube
C-85-12
Wire Wheels
Brodhead in 1996
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407153#407153
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Bill's flight |
| From: | "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
There is info on N626E here: http://www.aviationdb.com/Aviation/Aircraft/6/N626E.shtm
Looks like a Ford powered Piet, but no idea if it's got Cub style gear, Jenny style
gear, or a hand-carved prop ;o)
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407158#407158
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
Thanks to everyone who responded, and particularly to Andrew, who made a most generous
offer. I'll be taking him up on it.
At the last condx inspection on my airplane, the A&P not only checked for the presence
of the ELT, he checked the date on the battery and also tested the unit
to see if we got a warble on 121.5 MHz.
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407160#407160
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
Great work Bill, I will be right behind you in probably a month in NX6819Z.
rick h
On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 4:59 PM, BYD wrote:
>
> Hello good people!
>
> You better all grab your courage everybody because this is flying weather
.
> Now I=92m talking about the best 20 minutes of your life.
>
> When you die and St. Peter asks you, =93Hey, when were you happiest down
> there?=94 You=92re gonna say ' well, it was okay the day that I got mar
ried '
> and I didn=92t much mind the day I first fell in love ' but seeing the
sky in
> my own Pietenpol Air Camper that I built myself ' well sir ' that bea
ts
> them all.
>
> NX626E flew for the first time August 20th, 2013
> (Video proof forthcoming)
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407132#407132
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
NX6819Z
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org> |
Oscar,
You have a good A&P. He did the ELT inspection correctly. Part of the inspection
now is that you have to manually (Simulated accident), set it off to make
sure it works and that part of the test is documented in the log books. Hang
on to that A&P if you can.
Andrew did you good. Keep him as a friend too. :)
--------
Scott Liefeld
Flying N11MS since March 1972
Steel Tube
C-85-12
Wire Wheels
Brodhead in 1996
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407162#407162
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org> |
Oscar,
You have a good A&P. He did the ELT inspection correctly. Part of the inspection
now is that you have to manually (Simulated accident), set it off to make sure
it works and that part of the test is documented in the log books. Hang on
to that A&P if you can.
Andrew did you good. Keep him as a friend too. :)
--------
Scott Liefeld
Flying N11MS since March 1972
Steel Tube
C-85-12
Wire Wheels
Brodhead in 1996
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407163#407163
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org> |
OPPS, Wrong thread on previous post. Sorry guys
--------
Scott Liefeld
Flying N11MS since March 1972
Steel Tube
C-85-12
Wire Wheels
Brodhead in 1996
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407164#407164
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
How do you test an ELT? Drop it on the floor and see if it goes off?
rick h
On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 10:38 AM, AircamperN11MS
wrote:
> Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org>
>
> Oscar,
>
> You have a good A&P. He did the ELT inspection correctly. Part of the
> inspection now is that you have to manually (Simulated accident), set it
> off to make sure it works and that part of the test is documented in the
> log books. Hang on to that A&P if you can.
>
> Andrew did you good. Keep him as a friend too. :)
>
> --------
> Scott Liefeld
> Flying N11MS since March 1972
> Steel Tube
> C-85-12
> Wire Wheels
> Brodhead in 1996
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407162#407162
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
NX6819Z
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
I'll just flat go out here and put in a plug for the A&P who did the last annual
on my airplane: he is Mark Julicher, and he's based at Bulverde Airpark, north
of San Antonio. Super nice guy, really knows these older airplanes and knows
fabric. Actually, the prior annual was conducted by A&P Jeff Scott of Los
Alamos, who also checked the ELT. Jeff is another one who knows these old airplanes,
and he really knows his Continental engines.
Embarrassingly, two of the earlier annuals that were done on my airplane were done
by an air maintenance shop in Laredo, TX... and I don't believe the ELT was
part of the check done. I sure paid a lot for some of the things that that
shop "fixed" (more like UN-fixed) on the airplane. They do NOT know experimentals
and they do NOT know older airplanes unless they are certified or have multiple
engines.
Off soapbox now.
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407175#407175
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
Send to me.I do free testing on every landing!
Gary Boothe
NX308MB
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Holland
Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2013 11:23 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: NX626E
How do you test an ELT? Drop it on the floor and see if it goes off?
rick h
On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 10:38 AM, AircamperN11MS
wrote:
Oscar,
You have a good A&P. He did the ELT inspection correctly. Part of the
inspection now is that you have to manually (Simulated accident), set it off
to make sure it works and that part of the test is documented in the log
books. Hang on to that A&P if you can.
Andrew did you good. Keep him as a friend too. :)
--------
Scott Liefeld
Flying N11MS since March 1972
Steel Tube
C-85-12
Wire Wheels
Brodhead in 1996
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407162#407162
==========
st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
==========
http://forums.matronics.com
==========
le, List Admin.
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
==========
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
NX6819Z
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "M. Zeke Zechini" <marcus.zechini(at)gmail.com> |
Yes...watched my A&P, IA do it during my condx
Sent from my iPad
On Aug 21, 2013, at 6:54 PM, "Gary Boothe" wrote:
> Send to meI do free testing on every landing!
>
> Gary Boothe
> NX308MB
>
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-li
st-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Holland
> Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2013 11:23 AM
> To: pietenpol-list
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: NX626E
>
> How do you test an ELT? Drop it on the floor and see if it goes off?
>
> rick h
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 10:38 AM, AircamperN11MS wrote:
ty.org>
>
> Oscar,
>
> You have a good A&P. He did the ELT inspection correctly. Part of the in
spection now is that you have to manually (Simulated accident), set it off t
o make sure it works and that part of the test is documented in the log book
s. Hang on to that A&P if you can.
>
> Andrew did you good. Keep him as a friend too. :)
>
> --------
> Scott Liefeld
> Flying N11MS since March 1972
> Steel Tube
> C-85-12
> Wire Wheels
> Brodhead in 1996
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407162#407162
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ==========
> st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> ==========
> http://forums.matronics.com
> ==========
> le, List Admin.
> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ==========
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Rick Holland
> Castle Rock, Colorado
> NX6819Z
>
>
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> http://forums.matronics.com
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org> |
I don't trust you Gary. When I test mine I just hold it with one hand and smack
it into the palm of my other hand. Kind of like clapping. Doesn't take much.
--------
Scott Liefeld
Flying N11MS since March 1972
Steel Tube
C-85-12
Wire Wheels
Brodhead in 1996
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407180#407180
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
I tried that, but I keep missing the other hand...
Gary Boothe
NX308MB
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
AircamperN11MS
Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2013 4:29 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: NX626E
-->
I don't trust you Gary. When I test mine I just hold it with one hand and
smack it into the palm of my other hand. Kind of like clapping. Doesn't take
much.
--------
Scott Liefeld
Flying N11MS since March 1972
Steel Tube
C-85-12
Wire Wheels
Brodhead in 1996
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407180#407180
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "curtdm(at)gmail.com" <curtdm(at)gmail.com> |
Since we are on the subject of ELTs.
I am fortunate to have an old Dorne & Margolin DM ELT5-2 that is without batteries
that I hope to use.
It says on the case to use only alkaline D-size batteries.
There are two free wires inside the enclosure (+/-).
Does anyone know how the batteries are aligned (parallel/series) to make it work?
I've searched the net but can't find anything for that ELT.
Any suggestions other than to send it to Gary for testing. [Wink]
--------
Curt Merdan
Flower Mound, TX
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407182#407182
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/photo_11_145.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Francis" <Mrkringles(at)msn.com> |
Any Pietenpols planning to go to the MERFI fly-in in Urbana, OH this weekend?
--------
John Francis
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407183#407183
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
Consider yourself lucky...I would have charged for those wires...
Gary Boothe
NX308MB
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
curtdm(at)gmail.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2013 5:21 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: ELT wanted
-->
Since we are on the subject of ELTs.
I am fortunate to have an old Dorne & Margolin DM ELT5-2 that is without
batteries that I hope to use.
It says on the case to use only alkaline D-size batteries.
There are two free wires inside the enclosure (+/-).
Does anyone know how the batteries are aligned (parallel/series) to make it
work?
I've searched the net but can't find anything for that ELT.
Any suggestions other than to send it to Gary for testing. [Wink]
--------
Curt Merdan
Flower Mound, TX
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407182#407182
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/photo_11_145.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: MERFI Fly-In |
| From: | Steve Emo <steve.emo58(at)gmail.com> |
Me likely
Steve
On Aug 21, 2013, at 8:38 PM, "John Francis" wrote:
>
> Any Pietenpols planning to go to the MERFI fly-in in Urbana, OH this weekend?
>
> --------
> John Francis
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407183#407183
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
"free wires"... get it? ;o) Curt, a little more info is required. If you know
how many D-cells the case can hold, we can figure it out. D-cells are 1.5V
apiece and these clusters are usually wired with the batteries in series, so you
could have 1.5, 3, 4.5, 6, 7.5, 9, 10.5, 12, or 13.5 volts... or more. However,
nine D-cells to give 13.5 volts makes a pretty hefty battery pack and I
doubt that it would have held more. The battery pack for my Narco ELT-10 is essentially
nine stacked and potted D-cells to give 13.5V, which coincides with
the nominal 14V DC of many aircraft power systems. The radio with battery pack
feels like a chunk of lead or a brick... the specs say it's 3.9 lbs.
The red and black wires that are "free" (no extra "charge", get it?) can be snipped
clean, stripped, and a connector attached so you can fabricate a battery
enclosure with a mating connector. The batteries would join in a "nose to tail"
daisy-chain for a series connection.
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407191#407191
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
Gary is on a roll ;o) My ELT has a 3-position switch on it... OFF-ARMED-ON. I
merely switch it to the ON position to test, trusting that the momentum-actuated
mechanism inside the gadget will do the same in the event of a sudden stop.
I don't really expect it to do anything to save my life or help anybody locate
my suddenly-stopped airplane though.
The Narco ELT-10 is designed to be removable from the aircraft and used by the
pilot or pax as a hand-held locator transmitter. It has a built-in antenna for
that purpose, and the assumption is that it can be removed from the wreckage
(ugh!) and taken to a safe and secure place away from the scene where searchers
can zero in on the occupants and not a tangle of wood and fabric that may be
down in a forest or ravine. Or in Belize.
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407192#407192
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Wing rIb components quick and easy |
| From: | "bdewenter" <anonymouse(at)woh.rr.com> |
I can attest to what others have said about how easy it is to quickly craft both
the wing rib gussets and rib members. The included photo has a lot in it.
My wing rib jig is loaded with the first set of components. It is now surrounded
by 32 sets of 10 rib members. There are 900+ gussets in the plastic tubs
and bags (5 different sizes / shapes).
The gussets took a 24"x48" sheet of 1/16" aircraft grade ply and about 6 hours
spread over 3 nights. I used a table saw, chop saw and metal sheers. It was very
easy to make them.
I got home early from a trip yesterday and felt it was a good time to cut the rib
components. The 32 sets of 10 rib members took 3 hours.
If anyone out there is fretting these tasks, stop now.
--------
Bob 'Early Builder' Dewenter
Dayton OH
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407205#407205
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00127_medium_969.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov> |
With all this talk about ELT's I have to post that during my airworthiness
inspection no mention of an ELT was ever made
and from day one I never installed one nor 15 years later have one. I'm s
ure it would be prudent to carry one but I've just
never done it but then again I don't fly over mountains or rugged terrain.
I figure they'll just see the smoke and drive toward it.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "bdewenter" <anonymouse(at)woh.rr.com> |
I am not planning on installing an ELT either. Its not required during the 40
hour test period. Less weight. less cost. I will not be flying over mountains
either. Planning on using a GPS SPOT like device however for CC flights. Cell
or land line phone check ins with someone will also help.
--------
Bob 'Early Builder' Dewenter
Dayton OH
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407208#407208
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
It's hard to predict what is important to an inspector. Like Mike, my FAA
inspector had no interest in seeing the ELT (although I have one mounted),
nor was he concerned that the word 'EXPERIMENTAL' was not written on the
side of the forward cockpit (he only wanted to see a placard on the forward
panel with the word 'EXPERIMENTAL' somewhere on the placard), but....
He was dead set that I safety all the hose clamps! That's not a reg, either.
A year later, at a presentation he did at our EAA chapter, he again
mentioned safetying hose clamps! I didn't mind...it didn't take long.
Gary Boothe
NX308MB
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of bdewenter
Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2013 6:56 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: being found
-->
I am not planning on installing an ELT either. Its not required during the
40 hour test period. Less weight. less cost. I will not be flying over
mountains either. Planning on using a GPS SPOT like device however for CC
flights. Cell or land line phone check ins with someone will also help.
--------
Bob 'Early Builder' Dewenter
Dayton OH
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407208#407208
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wing rIb components quick and easy |
| From: | "John Francis" <Mrkringles(at)msn.com> |
Nice job Bob! After building the jig and making the first rib, the work of building
the rest of the ribs will become easy and rewarding. As I work on the hand
carving on the wing tips and finishing the ailerons, I dream of those lackadaisical
days of building wing ribs.
Spent two hours last night in the simulator with Russ. He disabled all the gauges
but what I would have in my Piet then put me into some tough situations.
Most enlightening was flying into clouds and maintaining altitude and level wings
with just the altimeter and magnetic compass.
John
--------
John Francis
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407210#407210
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org> |
Bob and Mike,
What does Uncle Tony say about that???? Just kidding, but, The FAA will say you
are not legal Mike. After phase 1 testing you (Bob and Mike) are required to
have one in your plane. The only exception would be if the plane is a single
seater. I agree that we really don't need them with all the other tracking devices
and phones available to us these days. If the FAA changed the rules to
include this centuries technologies the manufacturers would throw a fit. How
would they stay in business without our money??? Anyway, I hate to see you
get in trouble with the FAA someday (during a ramp check) because you don't have
one so I figured I would rant a little. Look at the FAR's and you will see
what I am talking about. Anyway, just have fun and fly.
BTW, Last year while I was going through all the paperwork that is required to
be carried in my plane to be legal, I discovered that I had the wrong "Operating
Limitations" in the plane and flew it that way for 20 years. I was never
ramp checked and never was in trouble for it. But, it was an eye opener.
--------
Scott Liefeld
Flying N11MS since March 1972
Steel Tube
C-85-12
Wire Wheels
Brodhead in 1996
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407211#407211
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov> |
You are so right about the regulations Scott and gosh, no wonder Uncle Tony
didn't include me in his will......no ELT! I'd better get busy and saf
ety wire all my hose clamps too before
I fly out to California to visit Gary and the Westcoast Piet bunch. :)
We have a great FAA inspector here locally and while he and his wife were a
t a little private air strip get-together a few years ago my friend Bill Kl
osz and I razzed the daylights out of
this guy because he didn't have a compass correction card. We were ramp c
hecking the FAA guy. Thank goodness we have some fair-minded and reasonab
le Feds around here
but you make a good point--they are all different and they all could hang a
ny one of us on any given day!
Mike C.
[cid:image001.jpg(at)01CE9F2C.40FB9510]
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: MERFI Fly-In |
NX92GB may be there, Dad might fly over.- If I am not working on my wings
I will try to bum a ride over with my neighbor.=0A-=0AShad =0A =0A=0A___
_____________________________=0A From: John Francis <Mrkringles(at)msn.com>=0A
M=0ASubject: Pietenpol-List: MERFI Fly-In=0A =0A=0A--> Pietenpol-List mess
age posted by: "John Francis" =0A=0AAny Pietenpols plan
ning to go to the MERFI fly-in in Urbana, OH this weekend?=0A=0A--------=0A
John Francis=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.
==============
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Franklin <jbfjr(at)peoplepc.com> |
| Subject: | Covering systems |
Pietsters,
Is it legal (??..perhaps the wrong term) to cover parts of the plane, say the wings
and tail surfaces, with the Polyfiber system and then cover the fuselage
with the Stewart system? Seems like I remember reading somewhere that you can't
mix systems on the same plane.
Thanks,
John Franklin
Prairie Aire 4TA0
Needville, TX
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "H. Marvin Haught Jr. " <handainc(at)madisoncounty.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Covering systems |
Only if you are doing a certificated airplane. That said, if you are
doing a repair, then Stewart Systems is approved to repair any other
certified system.
M. Haught
Aircraft Fabric & Finishes LLC.
On 8/22/2013 11:48 AM, John Franklin wrote:
>
> Pietsters,
>
> Is it legal (??..perhaps the wrong term) to cover parts of the plane, say the
wings and tail surfaces, with the Polyfiber system and then cover the fuselage
with the Stewart system? Seems like I remember reading somewhere that you can't
mix systems on the same plane.
>
> Thanks,
> John Franklin
> Prairie Aire 4TA0
> Needville, TX
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <r.r.hall(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: being found (OT about getting away with stuff) |
Guys,
The enforcement of all FAA rules is pretty hit and miss in the small plane arens
I think. When I bought my one off homebuilt from the original builder he told
me the whole story of how he built it out of wood based on a popular metal plane
of the time including a V tail but the mixing control was maladjusted on
his first flight and he crashed. The plane was rebuilt with a bigger engine and
standard tail form and flown for many years afterward. What I didn't realize
was that the original Op Lims stated that "any major changes invalidate the airworthiness
certificate". Being as it was subject to two major changes the AW
cert was totally invalid and had been for the many years it flew. When I discovered
this I decided to get it straightened out. As a result I spent several
months corresponding with the FAA, DAR and DER but finally obtained a new airworthiness
certificate and am in the process of flying off the 40 hours of Phase
1 (if the stupid weather would ever cooperate). My point is, if someone can
fly an airplane for 20 years with an invalid airworthiness cert. what else are
people getting away with on a daily basis? Whatever they are "getting away
with" it surely doesn't seem to impact GA safety too much and kinda makes me question
the whole need for all this bureaucracy. 3rd class medical is a perfect
example. Lots of people are flying without medicals yet the accident rate hasn't
gone through the roof. In my opinion you should only need a medical if you
are flying commercially i.e. someone is paying you. That is just one example,
all these ADs and mandatory ADSB would be another. Is it really going to enhance
safety? How many GA midair collisions were there last year?
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Covering systems |
| From: | "curtdm(at)gmail.com" <curtdm(at)gmail.com> |
Mixing is called "experimenting" on an experimental.
--------
Curt Merdan
Flower Mound, TX
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407226#407226
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mario Giacummo <mario.giacummo(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Covering systems |
I think what he pretend to do is not mixin. Mix is cover one wing with one
system and the otherone with other.. may be this could be bad.. but the
fuselage?.. May be I saw bad, but there isn't one with a rotor engine wichi
the fuse look like playwood covered?.. is it plywood, isn't it? ;o)
Mario Giacummo
2013/8/22 curtdm(at)gmail.com
> curtdm(at)gmail.com>
>
> Mixing is called "experimenting" on an experimental.
>
> --------
> Curt Merdan
> Flower Mound, TX
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407226#407226
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
My inspector asked me to add the two inch "EXPERIMENTAL" letters in my
cockpit. But he said he didn't care if I removed them from "that beautiful
woodwork" after the AW is issued.
rh
On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 8:20 AM, Gary Boothe wrote:
>
> It's hard to predict what is important to an inspector. Like Mike, my FAA
> inspector had no interest in seeing the ELT (although I have one mounted),
> nor was he concerned that the word 'EXPERIMENTAL' was not written on the
> side of the forward cockpit (he only wanted to see a placard on the forward
> panel with the word 'EXPERIMENTAL' somewhere on the placard), but....
>
> He was dead set that I safety all the hose clamps! That's not a reg,
> either.
> A year later, at a presentation he did at our EAA chapter, he again
> mentioned safetying hose clamps! I didn't mind...it didn't take long.
>
> Gary Boothe
> NX308MB
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of bdewenter
> Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2013 6:56 AM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: being found
>
> -->
>
> I am not planning on installing an ELT either. Its not required during the
> 40 hour test period. Less weight. less cost. I will not be flying over
> mountains either. Planning on using a GPS SPOT like device however for CC
> flights. Cell or land line phone check ins with someone will also help.
>
> --------
> Bob 'Early Builder' Dewenter
> Dayton OH
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407208#407208
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
NX6819Z
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: being found (OT about getting away with stuff) |
| From: | "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com> |
This is a huge bucket of worms that is practically impossible to intelligently
discuss!
Believe me, I'm NOT a huge fan of government intervention (with the exception being
I'm ok with them outlawing straight headed fasteners...). However, when
you spend much time in a third world environment, you get a little more alright
with it.
But then you spend some time in Europe and wonder what if we go THAT far?!
I think the real answer lies reasonable interpretation. In your case, what's the
point of flying off 40hrs? You did the right thing in getting things straightened
out, and they punish you (in effect). If more reasonable interpretation
and enforcement were to be the norm, people would indeed be more inclined to
try and follow the rules.
To that end, and how I've always looked at this stuff, I believe I just do the
best I can to be safe first, and follow the "rules" second. When I'm knowingly
violating something and get caught, I simply fess up and take the punishment
like an adult. Overall, I'm way ahead of the game despite getting caught for
a few things rather than have just not done so much because it really isn't feasible
to do it all PERFECTLY legally.
It's kind of funny, I've thought a lot about this ELT thing. I believe what I'll
do (I hope big brother isn't watching...) is move the ELT I do own over to
whatever I'm getting registered, and keep moving it around to where ever I need
it at the time to be as legal as possible, but probably not gonna miss a flight
somewhere, sometime, just because it isn't in there, ya know?
I do always make it a practice for someone to know where I am and when, and will
take appropriate action should something go wrong. I believe that is safer
than relying on aging equipment and technology anyway.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407231#407231
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Covering systems |
| From: | "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org> |
What is meant by mixing the processes, is that you do not want to repair Poly fiber
with the stewart process or visa-versa. The glues for each process are not
compatible. This is how Stewart Wittman was killed in his Tailwind.
--------
Scott Liefeld
Flying N11MS since March 1972
Steel Tube
C-85-12
Wire Wheels
Brodhead in 1996
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407232#407232
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: being found (OT about getting away with stuff) |
| From: | "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
Tools; there are more people who do the "musical chairs" thing than you think.
I know a guy who collects antique and rare motorcycles. He has one set of license
plates that he keeps current and he puts them on whichever of the bikes
he takes out of his barn to go ride. Ridiculous to keep tags on his 18-20 bikes
when he can only ride one at a time. As long as he doesn't break any traffic
rules or do something stupid to get him pulled over, nobody is the wiser.
We should start a trading pool like with the fish scales. One ELT stays current
and legal and we mail it to the next guy who is up for annual inspection. After
he passes, he mails it to the next person and so on. Each user pays a few
bucks so there is money to replace the battery every 2 years ;o) Just hope
you don't get "ramped"...
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407235#407235
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Covering systems |
| From: | Ken Bickers <bickers.ken(at)gmail.com> |
It was Steve (not Stewart) Wittman who was killed because he mixed systems
on the same flying surface, which came apart in flight. Both Steve and his
wife were killed. There's nothing absolutely wrong with using different
systems on different components of the airplane. But you sure would need
to be able to keep perfect track for any later repairs, both by you and
anyone else that ever purchased the plane. Using a single system would
prevent errors of mixing systems in later repairs that could prove fatal.
On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 11:35 AM, AircamperN11MS
wrote:
> Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org>
>
> What is meant by mixing the processes, is that you do not want to repair
> Poly fiber with the stewart process or visa-versa. The glues for each
> process are not compatible. This is how Stewart Wittman was killed in his
> Tailwind.
>
> --------
> Scott Liefeld
> Flying N11MS since March 1972
> Steel Tube
> C-85-12
> Wire Wheels
> Brodhead in 1996
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407232#407232
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Covering systems |
| From: | "H. Marvin Haught" <handainc(at)madisoncounty.net> |
You are absolutely wrong! Stewart Systems is approved for repairs on all other
certified systems, including Poly Fiber! What you say is correct about any
of the other covering systems - none are approved to repair the other. But Stewart's
is an approved repair for all other covering systems.
M. Haught
Aircraft Fabric & Finishes, LLC
On Aug 22, 2013, at 12:35 PM, AircamperN11MS wrote:
>
> What is meant by mixing the processes, is that you do not want to repair Poly
fiber with the stewart process or visa-versa. The glues for each process are
not compatible. This is how Stewart Wittman was killed in his Tailwind.
>
> --------
> Scott Liefeld
> Flying N11MS since March 1972
> Steel Tube
> C-85-12
> Wire Wheels
> Brodhead in 1996
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407232#407232
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Covering systems |
| From: | "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org> |
Your right it was Steve. I guess I had Stewert on my brain.
Perhaps it is OK to repair Poly Fiber with Stewert Systems, but you won't find
me doing it on my plane. Call me old school if you you want. No mixing for me
thank you.
My 3 cents,
--------
Scott Liefeld
Flying N11MS since March 1972
Steel Tube
C-85-12
Wire Wheels
Brodhead in 1996
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407246#407246
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Covering systems |
| From: | "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com> |
I just sat in a fabric covering class at Oshkosh that was taught by John Goldenbaum
of Poly Fiber and he stated what Scott said about not mixing components of
one system with components of another system.
Is there somewhere on the Stewart Systems website or publications that says it
is compatible with all other systems? Nothing personal Mr. Haught. It is just
the "trust, but verify" part of how I like to look at these types of discussions
when someone vehemently tells someone else that he is wrong about something
that could kill you when flying.
If you can find that and post a link, I am sure that it would be a help to all
of us. Thanks.
--------
Semper Fi,
Terry Hand
Athens, GA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407247#407247
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Covering systems |
| From: | Ken Bickers <bickers.ken(at)gmail.com> |
Okay, I stand corrected. Nevertheless, I'm still not going to mix systems
on the same airplane. I've got Stits on my Pacer and Stewart on my Piet.
I'm going to keep it that way, unless one or the other is fully re-covered.
On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 12:21 PM, H. Marvin Haught <
handainc(at)madisoncounty.net> wrote:
> handainc(at)madisoncounty.net>
>
> You are absolutely wrong! Stewart Systems is approved for repairs on all
> other certified systems, including Poly Fiber! What you say is correct
> about any of the other covering systems - none are approved to repair the
> other. But Stewart's is an approved repair for all other covering systems.
>
> M. Haught
> Aircraft Fabric & Finishes, LLC
>
>
> On Aug 22, 2013, at 12:35 PM, AircamperN11MS wrote:
>
> Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org>
> >
> > What is meant by mixing the processes, is that you do not want to repair
> Poly fiber with the stewart process or visa-versa. The glues for each
> process are not compatible. This is how Stewart Wittman was killed in his
> Tailwind.
> >
> > --------
> > Scott Liefeld
> > Flying N11MS since March 1972
> > Steel Tube
> > C-85-12
> > Wire Wheels
> > Brodhead in 1996
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407232#407232
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Andrea Vavassori <andrea(at)modelberg.it> |
| Subject: | Re: Covering systems |
Hello Ken,
> It was Steve (not Stewart) Wittman who was killed because he mixed
> systems on the same flying surface, which came apart in flight.
IIRC, there was a report many years ago on Sport Aviation. I cannot
remember every single word, but the long and the short of it is that
the flying surface was covered with Stits Poly-Fiber, and was not a
problem of mixed materials but wrong covering techniques. Steve
applied the fabric using the cotton method i.e. he put the cement
on the wood, let it dry, laid the fabric and brushed the cement over
the fabric, assuming that the cement would have run through the
thickness of the fabric and onto the underlying dried cement,
softening it. It didn't, or at least it did for but a very small
percentage of the glued surface, because the polyester fabric has no
affinity with nitrate cement like cotton has. This was the comment of
Mr. Ray Stits himself, who pointed straight at his covering manual,
where he stated that his fabric should be applied immediately over a
fresh hand of nitrate cement, and another should be put on
immediately on the external surface, in a wet-on-wet fashion, so every
fiber becomes, in fact, completely encapsulated with cement.
SeeYa,
Andrea
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Andrea Vavassori <andrea(at)modelberg.it> |
| Subject: | Sad, sad, sad news :-( |
Hello guys,
Just in from AvWeb:
http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/news/EAA-Founder-Paul-Poberezny-Dies-At-91220479-1.html?ET=avweb:e2614:220628a:&st=email
I have that eerie feeling that our world isn't going to be the same
anymore...
SeeYa!
Andrea
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Covering systems |
It should not surprise anyone that any manufacturer would advise to use
their own products for repairs, for many reasons, not the least of which are
those that would come from their Legal Dept concerning warranties. Still, as
Mr. Haught correctly stated, Stewart Systems offers their products as a
patching process for any solvent based system, as stated in their
'Procedures Manual,' under "Repairing Fabric":
" REPAIRING FABRIC
Always refer to FAA Advisory Circular AC 43.13-1B Chapter 2 before repairing
any fabric damage. This advisory circular spells out in detail how
particular injuries to the aircraft fabric are to be repaired.
Repairing fabric damage with STEWART SYSTEMS method is a relatively simple
and easy process. In the case of a fabric puncture, the area must be
thoroughly cleaned with STEWART SYSTEMS EkoClean Heavy Duty Cleaner (E670)
to remove any waxes, silicones, or contaminates which might be present. If
the topcoat is STEWART SYSTEMS Waterborne Catalyzed EkoPoly you just need to
scuff sand an area 2 around the damaged area before patching. If you are
unsure of the topcoat or you know it is something other than STEWART SYSTEMS
Waterborne Catalyzed EkoPoly Top Coat, you must sand down to the EkoFill
coat 2 around the damaged area or to bare fabric if repairing a solvent
based system. Next glue your patch on the sanded area using EkoBond glue and
allow to dry. Heat shrink the fabric ONLY over the open hole under the
patch. Finish Iron the patch edges at 250F. Apply EkoFill to desired
thickness, sand and spray matching top coat. Stewart Systems is FAA approved
for repairing any certified covering system."
Gary Boothe
NX308MB
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
jarheadpilot82
Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2013 12:15 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Covering systems
-->
I just sat in a fabric covering class at Oshkosh that was taught by John
Goldenbaum of Poly Fiber and he stated what Scott said about not mixing
components of one system with components of another system.
Is there somewhere on the Stewart Systems website or publications that says
it is compatible with all other systems? Nothing personal Mr. Haught. It is
just the "trust, but verify" part of how I like to look at these types of
discussions when someone vehemently tells someone else that he is wrong
about something that could kill you when flying.
If you can find that and post a link, I am sure that it would be a help to
all of us. Thanks.
--------
Semper Fi,
Terry Hand
Athens, GA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407247#407247
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Covering systems |
| From: | Ken Bickers <bickers.ken(at)gmail.com> |
Andrea, thanks for the clarification, though it only reinforces the point
that mixing covering systems (which is more than just the products) can be
dangerous. Each system calls out particular processes by which the
products are to be combined. Keeping all of that straight is the major
reason for using one and only system on a particular airplane. Cheers, Ken
On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 1:42 PM, Andrea Vavassori wrote:
> andrea(at)modelberg.it>
>
> Hello Ken,
>
> > It was Steve (not Stewart) Wittman who was killed because he mixed
> > systems on the same flying surface, which came apart in flight.
>
> IIRC, there was a report many years ago on Sport Aviation. I cannot
> remember every single word, but the long and the short of it is that
> the flying surface was covered with Stits Poly-Fiber, and was not a
> problem of mixed materials but wrong covering techniques. Steve
> applied the fabric using the cotton method i.e. he put the cement
> on the wood, let it dry, laid the fabric and brushed the cement over
> the fabric, assuming that the cement would have run through the
> thickness of the fabric and onto the underlying dried cement,
> softening it. It didn't, or at least it did for but a very small
> percentage of the glued surface, because the polyester fabric has no
> affinity with nitrate cement like cotton has. This was the comment of
> Mr. Ray Stits himself, who pointed straight at his covering manual,
> where he stated that his fabric should be applied immediately over a
> fresh hand of nitrate cement, and another should be put on
> immediately on the external surface, in a wet-on-wet fashion, so every
> fiber becomes, in fact, completely encapsulated with cement.
>
> SeeYa,
>
> Andrea
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "H. Marvin Haught Jr. " <handainc(at)madisoncounty.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Covering systems |
Thanks, Gary.... you are right on target! And the real point in this
topic is that you should be careful in "mixing" systems, such as using
one brand fabric sealer over another systems glue, etc. which may have
been what caused problems in the instance of Steve Whitman. Some
products may not be compatible with others. That is why Stewart's got
certification for repair of other systems. Being water based glue and
Sealer (EkoFill) and waterborne paint, there are no incompatibility
issues. But if you do decide to repair another system with Stewart's, be
advised that it is necessary to clean the area to be repaired very
thoroughly because fish eye can be a huge problem. I scrub the area with
TSP and a scotchbrite pad, rinse and then scrub with the Stewart's
cleaner. I follow that, after it dries with a wipe of isopropyl alcohol.
Waterborne paints are very intolerant of contaminates.
M. Haught
8/22/2013 2:48 PM, Gary Boothe wrote:
>
> It should not surprise anyone that any manufacturer would advise to use
> their own products for repairs, for many reasons, not the least of which are
> those that would come from their Legal Dept concerning warranties. Still, as
> Mr. Haught correctly stated, Stewart Systems offers their products as a
> patching process for any solvent based system, as stated in their
> 'Procedures Manual,' under "Repairing Fabric":
>
> " REPAIRING FABRIC
> Always refer to FAA Advisory Circular AC 43.13-1B Chapter 2 before repairing
> any fabric damage. This advisory circular spells out in detail how
> particular injuries to the aircraft fabric are to be repaired.
> Repairing fabric damage with STEWART SYSTEMS method is a relatively simple
> and easy process. In the case of a fabric puncture, the area must be
> thoroughly cleaned with STEWART SYSTEMS EkoClean Heavy Duty Cleaner (E670)
> to remove any waxes, silicones, or contaminates which might be present. If
> the topcoat is STEWART SYSTEMS Waterborne Catalyzed EkoPoly you just need to
> scuff sand an area 2 around the damaged area before patching. If you are
> unsure of the topcoat or you know it is something other than STEWART SYSTEMS
> Waterborne Catalyzed EkoPoly Top Coat, you must sand down to the EkoFill
> coat 2 around the damaged area or to bare fabric if repairing a solvent
> based system. Next glue your patch on the sanded area using EkoBond glue and
> allow to dry. Heat shrink the fabric ONLY over the open hole under the
> patch. Finish Iron the patch edges at 250F. Apply EkoFill to desired
> thickness, sand and spray matching top coat. Stewart Systems is FAA approved
> for repairing any certified covering system."
>
> Gary Boothe
> NX308MB
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> jarheadpilot82
> Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2013 12:15 PM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Covering systems
>
> -->
>
> I just sat in a fabric covering class at Oshkosh that was taught by John
> Goldenbaum of Poly Fiber and he stated what Scott said about not mixing
> components of one system with components of another system.
>
> Is there somewhere on the Stewart Systems website or publications that says
> it is compatible with all other systems? Nothing personal Mr. Haught. It is
> just the "trust, but verify" part of how I like to look at these types of
> discussions when someone vehemently tells someone else that he is wrong
> about something that could kill you when flying.
>
> If you can find that and post a link, I am sure that it would be a help to
> all of us. Thanks.
>
> --------
> Semper Fi,
>
> Terry Hand
> Athens, GA
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407247#407247
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Barry Davis" <bed(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Sad, sad, sad news :-( |
There is a great disturbance in the force. RIP Paul
Barry
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Andrea
Vavassori
Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2013 3:44 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Sad, sad, sad news :-(
-->
Hello guys,
Just in from AvWeb:
http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/news/EAA-Founder-Paul-Poberezny-Dies-At-9122
0479-1.html?ET=avweb:e2614:220628a:&st=email
I have that eerie feeling that our world isn't going to be the same
anymore...
SeeYa!
Andrea
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Covering systems |
| From: | "H. Marvin Haught" <handainc(at)madisoncounty.net> |
I totally agree about "mixing" systems. I do not mix components and as Andrea
brought out, make SURE I have the manual of any system that I am using on hand
so that I use the proper techniques of application for that system. Gary quoted
the data exactly in a prior post, and copied the manual exactly. "" REPAIRING
FABRIC
Always refer to FAA Advisory Circular AC 43.13-1B Chapter 2 before repairing
any fabric damage. This advisory circular spells out in detail how
particular injuries to the aircraft fabric are to be repaired.
Repairing fabric damage with STEWART SYSTEMS method is a relatively simple
and easy process. In the case of a fabric puncture, the area must be
thoroughly cleaned with STEWART SYSTEMS EkoClean Heavy Duty Cleaner (E670)
to remove any waxes, silicones, or contaminates which might be present. If
the topcoat is STEWART SYSTEMS Waterborne Catalyzed EkoPoly you just need to
scuff sand an area 2 around the damaged area before patching. If you are
unsure of the topcoat or you know it is something other than STEWART SYSTEMS
Waterborne Catalyzed EkoPoly Top Coat, you must sand down to the EkoFill
coat 2 around the damaged area or to bare fabric if repairing a solvent
based system. Next glue your patch on the sanded area using EkoBond glue and
allow to dry. Heat shrink the fabric ONLY over the open hole under the
patch. Finish Iron the patch edges at 250F. Apply EkoFill to desired
thickness, sand and spray matching top coat. Stewart Systems is FAA approved
for repairing any certified covering system."
That excerpt is on Page 1 of Section 16 in the Stewart Instruction Manual. It can be found at http://www.stewartsystems.aero/support.aspx
By the way, I am a distributor for both Stewarts and SuperFlite, and I don't think
I was vehement at all, just speaking from a knowledge of fact. And I have
contributed here in the interest of safety and accuracy of information. That
benefits all of us.
Additionally, I did not intend to say it is compatible with all other systems as
in mixing components, but it IS compatible in repairing all other systems if
the repair is completed as described above.
M. Haught
Aircraft Fabric & Finishes, LLC
On Aug 22, 2013, at 2:14 PM, jarheadpilot82 wrote:
>
> I just sat in a fabric covering class at Oshkosh that was taught by John Goldenbaum
of Poly Fiber and he stated what Scott said about not mixing components
of one system with components of another system.
>
> Is there somewhere on the Stewart Systems website or publications that says it
is compatible with all other systems? Nothing personal Mr. Haught. It is just
the "trust, but verify" part of how I like to look at these types of discussions
when someone vehemently tells someone else that he is wrong about something
that could kill you when flying.
>
> If you can find that and post a link, I am sure that it would be a help to all
of us. Thanks.
>
> --------
> Semper Fi,
>
> Terry Hand
> Athens, GA
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407247#407247
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gliderx5(at)comcast.net |
| Subject: | Re: Covering systems |
For certified aircraft both Polyfiber and Stewarts processes are approved,
but does anybody know where the processes really start and end?
With Polyfiber you prep the frame, glue with polytac, stitch, tape with pol
ybrush, spray 2 coats of polybrush, 3 coats of polyspray, and an undetermin
ed number of color coats (polytone or aerothane). It's interesting that the
manual says they "recommend" polytone or areothane, it does not say "requi
re" which leads me to believe that other paints may be substituted. If the
color coats are not part of the "system", then what about the polyspray or
the polybrush? Neither attach the fabric to the frame so as long as the pol
ytac/polybrush system of gluing and taping are followed (or Stewarts ecobon
d) the fabric should remain attached. Everything else is UV protection, wea
ve filling, and decoration. I realize that I'm trying to reason my way into
a conclusion on a matter dictated by the FAA, but I am curious on what def
ines the "process". Anyone know for sure?
Malcolm
----- Original Message -----
From: "H. Marvin Haught Jr." <handainc(at)madisoncounty.net>
Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2013 4:02:39 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Covering systems
isoncounty.net>
Thanks, Gary.... you are right on target! And the real point in this
topic is that you should be careful in "mixing" systems, such as using
one brand fabric sealer over another systems glue, etc. which may have
been what caused problems in the instance of Steve Whitman. Some
products may not be compatible with others. That is why Stewart's got
certification for repair of other systems. Being water based glue and
Sealer (EkoFill) and waterborne paint, there are no incompatibility
issues. But if you do decide to repair another system with Stewart's, be
advised that it is necessary to clean the area to be repaired very
thoroughly because fish eye can be a huge problem. I scrub the area with
TSP and a scotchbrite pad, rinse and then scrub with the Stewart's
cleaner. I follow that, after it dries with a wipe of isopropyl alcohol.
Waterborne paints are very intolerant of contaminates.
M. Haught
8/22/2013 2:48 PM, Gary Boothe wrote:
>
>
> It should not surprise anyone that any manufacturer would advise to use
> their own products for repairs, for many reasons, not the least of which
are
> those that would come from their Legal Dept concerning warranties. Still,
as
> Mr. Haught correctly stated, Stewart Systems offers their products as a
> patching process for any solvent based system, as stated in their
> 'Procedures Manual,' under "Repairing Fabric":
>
> " REPAIRING FABRIC
> Always refer to FAA Advisory Circular AC 43.13-1B Chapter 2 before repair
ing
> any fabric damage. This advisory circular spells out in detail how
> particular injuries to the aircraft fabric are to be repaired.
> Repairing fabric damage with STEWART SYSTEMS method is a relatively simpl
e
> and easy process. In the case of a fabric puncture, the area must be
> thoroughly cleaned with STEWART SYSTEMS EkoClean Heavy Duty Cleaner (E670
)
> to remove any waxes, silicones, or contaminates which might be present. I
f
> the topcoat is STEWART SYSTEMS Waterborne Catalyzed EkoPoly you just need
to
> scuff sand an area 2=9D around the damaged area before patching. If
you are
> unsure of the topcoat or you know it is something other than STEWART SYST
EMS
> Waterborne Catalyzed EkoPoly Top Coat, you must sand down to the EkoFill
> coat 2=9D around the damaged area or to bare fabric if repairing a
solvent
> based system. Next glue your patch on the sanded area using EkoBond glue
and
> allow to dry. Heat shrink the fabric ONLY over the open hole under the
> patch. Finish Iron the patch edges at 250=C2=B0F. Apply EkoFill to desire
d
> thickness, sand and spray matching top coat. Stewart Systems is FAA appro
ved
> for repairing any certified covering system."
>
> Gary Boothe
> NX308MB
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> jarheadpilot82
> Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2013 12:15 PM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Covering systems
>
> -->
>
> I just sat in a fabric covering class at Oshkosh that was taught by John
> Goldenbaum of Poly Fiber and he stated what Scott said about not mixing
> components of one system with components of another system.
>
> Is there somewhere on the Stewart Systems website or publications that sa
ys
> it is compatible with all other systems? Nothing personal Mr. Haught. It
is
> just the "trust, but verify" part of how I like to look at these types of
> discussions when someone vehemently tells someone else that he is wrong
> about something that could kill you when flying.
>
> If you can find that and post a link, I am sure that it would be a help t
o
> all of us. Thanks.
>
> --------
> Semper Fi,
>
> Terry Hand
> Athens, GA
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407247#407247
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "H. Marvin Haught" <handainc(at)madisoncounty.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Covering systems |
It all depends upon how the STC is worded, and how different regions of
the FAA interpret both their standards and the particular STC. Recently
a local AI wanted to cover a certified airplane with Stewarts, but the
customer wanted a solvent based paint. =46rom what I understand, the
FAA interpreted the EkoFill as the finish coat as the fabric was
protected and sealed from contaminates, deterioration and UV. I made
the point with him that the Stewart STC is completed only by the
waterborne topcoat. But apparently, it was approved and signed off. I
do not believe that situation was entirely legal, but it is signed off
and flying. Since I have not seen the actual documentation, I can't
verify the story, but throw it out as an example.
I also know of a Pitts Special that was recovered by a large shop. I do
not know what brand of fabric or if any "system" was used, but I think
it was basically PolyFiber, and painted with a Dupont Topcoat with a
flex additive. I don't know how that sort of a thing gets done,
legally. And again, I have not be able to verify the facts, but that
was what the owner told me.
I believe that generally, the STC is interpreted as being a complete
system through paint, and that any substitutions are not legal nor
permitted. And I doubt that any of the companies would warranty a cover
job if there are any deviations from the "system" which also includes
application techniques. I know that Stewart's and SuperFlite will not
honor a warranty claim unless the whole system used. To me, even a Piet
is too much of an investment, even if only in time and effort, to risk
having to recover it in a short period of time by using any questionable
covering practices. Normally, I don't think safety would be involved,
but the example of Steve Whitman shows that even errors in application
techniques could possibly kill you.
The short answer is that the process is the STC, which includes the
application manual for each of the different systems.
M. Haught
On Aug 22, 2013, at 4:39 PM, gliderx5(at)comcast.net wrote:
> For certified aircraft both Polyfiber and Stewarts processes are
approved, but does anybody know where the processes really start and
end?
>
> With Polyfiber you prep the frame, glue with polytac, stitch, tape
with polybrush, spray 2 coats of polybrush, 3 coats of polyspray, and an
undetermined number of color coats (polytone or aerothane). It's
interesting that the manual says they "recommend" polytone or areothane,
it does not say "require" which leads me to believe that other paints
may be substituted. If the color coats are not part of the "system",
then what about the polyspray or the polybrush? Neither attach the
fabric to the frame so as long as the polytac/polybrush system of gluing
and taping are followed (or Stewarts ecobond) the fabric should remain
attached. Everything else is UV protection, weave filling, and
decoration. I realize that I'm trying to reason my way into a conclusion
on a matter dictated by the FAA, but I am curious on what defines the
"process". Anyone know for sure?
>
> Malcolm
>
> From: "H. Marvin Haught Jr." <handainc(at)madisoncounty.net>
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2013 4:02:39 PM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Covering systems
>
>
> Thanks, Gary.... you are right on target! And the real point in this
> topic is that you should be careful in "mixing" systems, such as using
> one brand fabric sealer over another systems glue, etc. which may have
> been what caused problems in the instance of Steve Whitman. Some
> products may not be compatible with others. That is why Stewart's got
> certification for repair of other systems. Being water based glue and
> Sealer (EkoFill) and waterborne paint, there are no incompatibility
> issues. But if you do decide to repair another system with Stewart's,
be
> advised that it is necessary to clean the area to be repaired very
> thoroughly because fish eye can be a huge problem. I scrub the area
with
> TSP and a scotchbrite pad, rinse and then scrub with the Stewart's
> cleaner. I follow that, after it dries with a wipe of isopropyl
alcohol.
> Waterborne paints are very intolerant of contaminates.
>
> M. Haught
>
>
> 8/22/2013 2:48 PM, Gary Boothe wrote:
> >
> > It should not surprise anyone that any manufacturer would advise to
use
> > their own products for repairs, for many reasons, not the least of
which are
> > those that would come from their Legal Dept concerning warranties.
Still, as
> > Mr. Haught correctly stated, Stewart Systems offers their products
as a
> > patching process for any solvent based system, as stated in their
> > 'Procedures Manual,' under "Repairing Fabric":
> >
> > " REPAIRING FABRIC
> > Always refer to FAA Advisory Circular AC 43.13-1B Chapter 2 before
repairing
> > any fabric damage. This advisory circular spells out in detail how
> > particular injuries to the aircraft fabric are to be repaired.
> > Repairing fabric damage with STEWART SYSTEMS method is a relatively
simple
> > and easy process. In the case of a fabric puncture, the area must be
> > thoroughly cleaned with STEWART SYSTEMS EkoClean Heavy Duty Cleaner
(E670)
> > to remove any waxes, silicones, or contaminates which might be
present. If
> > the topcoat is STEWART SYSTEMS Waterborne Catalyzed EkoPoly you just
need to
> > scuff sand an area 2=94 around the damaged area before patching. If
you are
> > unsure of the topcoat or you know it is something other than STEWART
SYSTEMS
> > Waterborne Catalyzed EkoPoly Top Coat, you must sand down to the
EkoFill
> > coat 2=94 around the damaged area or to bare fabric if repairing a
solvent
> > based system. Next glue your patch on the sanded area using EkoBond
glue and
> > allow to dry. Heat shrink the fabric ONLY over the open hole under
the
> > patch. Finish Iron the patch edges at 250=B0F. Apply EkoFill to
desired
> > thickness, sand and spray matching top coat. Stewart Systems is FAA
approved
> > for repairing any certified covering system."
> >
> > Gary Boothe
> > NX308MB
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> > jarheadpilot82
> > Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2013 12:15 PM
> > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Covering systems
> >
> > -->
> >
> > I just sat in a fabric covering class at Oshkosh that was taught by
John
> > Goldenbaum of Poly Fiber and he stated what Scott said about not
mixing
> > components of one system with components of another system.
> >
> > Is there somewhere on the Stewart Systems website or publications
that says
> > it is compatible with all other systems? Nothing personal Mr.
Haught. It is
> > just the "trust, but verify" part of how I like to look at these
types of
> > discussions when someone vehemently tells someone else that he is
wrong
> > about something that could kill you when flying.
> >
> > If you can find that and post a link, I am sure that it would be a
help to
> > all of us. Thanks.
> >
> > --------
> > Semper Fi,
> >
> > Terry Hand
> > Athens, GA
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407247#407247
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> <; &nb================
==
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: being found (OT about getting away with stuff) |
| From: | Jack <jack(at)textors.com> |
Tools what are straight headed fasteners?
Sent from my iPad
Jack Textor
On Aug 22, 2013, at 12:33 PM, "tools" wrote:
>
> This is a huge bucket of worms that is practically impossible to intelligently
discuss!
>
> Believe me, I'm NOT a huge fan of government intervention (with the exception
being I'm ok with them outlawing straight headed fasteners...). However, when
you spend much time in a third world environment, you get a little more alright
with it.
>
> But then you spend some time in Europe and wonder what if we go THAT far?!
>
> I think the real answer lies reasonable interpretation. In your case, what's
the point of flying off 40hrs? You did the right thing in getting things straightened
out, and they punish you (in effect). If more reasonable interpretation
and enforcement were to be the norm, people would indeed be more inclined
to try and follow the rules.
>
> To that end, and how I've always looked at this stuff, I believe I just do the
best I can to be safe first, and follow the "rules" second. When I'm knowingly
violating something and get caught, I simply fess up and take the punishment
like an adult. Overall, I'm way ahead of the game despite getting caught for
a few things rather than have just not done so much because it really isn't
feasible to do it all PERFECTLY legally.
>
> It's kind of funny, I've thought a lot about this ELT thing. I believe what
I'll do (I hope big brother isn't watching...) is move the ELT I do own over to
whatever I'm getting registered, and keep moving it around to where ever I need
it at the time to be as legal as possible, but probably not gonna miss a flight
somewhere, sometime, just because it isn't in there, ya know?
>
> I do always make it a practice for someone to know where I am and when, and will
take appropriate action should something go wrong. I believe that is safer
than relying on aging equipment and technology anyway.
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407231#407231
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "BYD" <billsayre(at)ymail.com> |
Just to prove Im not a four flusher heres the photographic proof I said would
be coming....
http://youtu.be/0y4PnKwikvM
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407283#407283
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: being found (OT about getting away with stuff) |
| From: | Jack <jack(at)textors.com> |
Jeez I think I just figured it out! As opposed to phillips correct...
Sent from my iPad
Jack Textor
On Aug 22, 2013, at 7:11 PM, Jack wrote:
>
> Tools what are straight headed fasteners?
>
> Sent from my iPad
> Jack Textor
>
> On Aug 22, 2013, at 12:33 PM, "tools" wrote:
>
>>
>> This is a huge bucket of worms that is practically impossible to intelligently
discuss!
>>
>> Believe me, I'm NOT a huge fan of government intervention (with the exception
being I'm ok with them outlawing straight headed fasteners...). However, when
you spend much time in a third world environment, you get a little more alright
with it.
>>
>> But then you spend some time in Europe and wonder what if we go THAT far?!
>>
>> I think the real answer lies reasonable interpretation. In your case, what's
the point of flying off 40hrs? You did the right thing in getting things straightened
out, and they punish you (in effect). If more reasonable interpretation
and enforcement were to be the norm, people would indeed be more inclined
to try and follow the rules.
>>
>> To that end, and how I've always looked at this stuff, I believe I just do the
best I can to be safe first, and follow the "rules" second. When I'm knowingly
violating something and get caught, I simply fess up and take the punishment
like an adult. Overall, I'm way ahead of the game despite getting caught
for a few things rather than have just not done so much because it really isn't
feasible to do it all PERFECTLY legally.
>>
>> It's kind of funny, I've thought a lot about this ELT thing. I believe what
I'll do (I hope big brother isn't watching...) is move the ELT I do own over
to whatever I'm getting registered, and keep moving it around to where ever I
need it at the time to be as legal as possible, but probably not gonna miss a
flight somewhere, sometime, just because it isn't in there, ya know?
>>
>> I do always make it a practice for someone to know where I am and when, and
will take appropriate action should something go wrong. I believe that is safer
than relying on aging equipment and technology anyway.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407231#407231
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: being found (OT about getting away with stuff) |
| From: | "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com> |
Yep, that's them. These days, just have no use for them...
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407287#407287
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gliderx5(at)comcast.net |
| Subject: | Re: Covering systems |
I found the answer to my question on the polyfiber site
Since 2001, the FAA has required that fabric covered aircraft (at least the
fabric parts) be painted only with topcoat paints tested and approved on a
n STC. Use of any other topcoat paint will void the STC and airworthiness o
f the aircraft. Up to 2001, the STC's "ended with the silver", and any type
paint was legal to use. This is no longer true. Over the years, increased
use of brittle automotive or industrial paints caused enough cracking and d
elamination to cause the FAA to rethink approving untested topcoat paints o
ver fabric. Failed topcoat paints expose polyester fabric to sunlight and U
V damage. As of the latest revision of the Poly Fiber STC Procedure Manual
(revision 21, September 2006), only the following topcoat paints are approv
ed on the Poly Fiber STC: Poly Tone, Aerothane, or Randolph Ranthane. All t
hree of these paints have long service lives over fabric as well as an FAA
Parts Manufacturing Authority (PMA), which allows their application on cert
ified aircraft. For instance, a J-3 Cub must have only Poly Tone, Aerothane
or Ranthane over the fabric parts, but you could use enamel or anything el
se over the struts, cowl, fairings, etc. The keyword is FABRIC. Experimenta
l aircraft are not bound by these rules, however, we do recommend using pro
ducts with known track records on fabric components.
Malcolm
----- Original Message -----
From: "H. Marvin Haught" <handainc(at)madisoncounty.net>
Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2013 6:22:25 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Covering systems
It all depends upon how the STC is worded, and how different regions of the
FAA interpret both their standards and the particular STC. Recently a loca
l AI wanted to cover a certified airplane with Stewarts, but the customer w
anted a solvent based paint. From what I understand, the FAA interpreted th
e EkoFill as the finish coat as the fabric was protected and sealed from co
ntaminates, deterioration and UV. I made the point with him that the Stewar
t STC is completed only by the waterborne topcoat. But apparently, it was a
pproved and signed off. I do not believe that situation was entirely legal,
but it is signed off and flying. Since I have not seen the actual document
ation, I can't verify the story, but throw it out as an example.
I also know of a Pitts Special that was recovered by a large shop. I do not
know what brand of fabric or if any "system" was used, but I think it was
basically PolyFiber, and painted with a Dupont Topcoat with a flex additive
. I don't know how that sort of a thing gets done, legally. And again, I ha
ve not be able to verify the facts, but that was what the owner told me.
I believe that generally, the STC is interpreted as being a complete system
through paint, and that any substitutions are not legal nor permitted. And
I doubt that any of the companies would warranty a cover job if there are
any deviations from the "system" which also includes application techniques
. I know that Stewart's and SuperFlite will not honor a warranty claim unle
ss the whole system used. To me, even a Piet is too much of an investment,
even if only in time and effort, to risk having to recover it in a short pe
riod of time by using any questionable covering practices. Normally, I don'
t think safety would be involved, but the example of Steve Whitman shows th
at even errors in application techniques could possibly kill you.
The short answer is that the process is the STC, which includes the applica
tion manual for each of the different systems.
M. Haught
On Aug 22, 2013, at 4:39 PM, gliderx5(at)comcast.net wrote:
For certified aircraft both Polyfiber and Stewarts processes are approved,
but does anybody know where the processes really start and end?
With Polyfiber you prep the frame, glue with polytac, stitch, tape with pol
ybrush, spray 2 coats of polybrush, 3 coats of polyspray, and an undetermin
ed number of color coats (polytone or aerothane). It's interesting that the
manual says they "recommend" polytone or areothane, it does not say "requi
re" which leads me to believe that other paints may be substituted. If the
color coats are not part of the "system", then what about the polyspray or
the polybrush? Neither attach the fabric to the frame so as long as the pol
ytac/polybrush system of gluing and taping are followed (or Stewarts ecobon
d) the fabric should remain attached. Everything else is UV protection, wea
ve filling, and decoration. I realize that I'm trying to reason my way into
a conclusion on a matter dictated by the FAA, but I am curious on what def
ines the "process". Anyone know for sure?
Malcolm
----- Original Message -----
From: "H. Marvin Haught Jr." < handainc(at)madisoncounty.net >
Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2013 4:02:39 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Covering systems
isoncounty.net>
Thanks, Gary.... you are right on target! And the real point in this
topic is that you should be careful in "mixing" systems, such as using
one brand fabric sealer over another systems glue, etc. which may have
been what caused problems in the instance of Steve Whitman. Some
products may not be compatible with others. That is why Stewart's got
certification for repair of other systems. Being water based glue and
Sealer (EkoFill) and waterborne paint, there are no incompatibility
issues. But if you do decide to repair another system with Stewart's, be
advised that it is necessary to clean the area to be repaired very
thoroughly because fish eye can be a huge problem. I scrub the area with
TSP and a scotchbrite pad, rinse and then scrub with the Stewart's
cleaner. I follow that, after it dries with a wipe of isopropyl alcohol.
Waterborne paints are very intolerant of contaminates.
M. Haught
8/22/2013 2:48 PM, Gary Boothe wrote:
>
>
> It should not surprise anyone that any manufacturer would advise to use
> their own products for repairs, for many reasons, not the least of which
are
> those that would come from their Legal Dept concerning warranties. Still,
as
> Mr. Haught correctly stated, Stewart Systems offers their products as a
> patching process for any solvent based system, as stated in their
> 'Procedures Manual,' under "Repairing Fabric":
>
> " REPAIRING FABRIC
> Always refer to FAA Advisory Circular AC 43.13-1B Chapter 2 before repair
ing
> any fabric damage. This advisory circular spells out in detail how
> particular injuries to the aircraft fabric are to be repaired.
> Repairing fabric damage with STEWART SYSTEMS method is a relatively simpl
e
> and easy process. In the case of a fabric puncture, the area must be
> thoroughly cleaned with STEWART SYSTEMS EkoClean Heavy Duty Cleaner (E670
)
> to remove any waxes, silicones, or contaminates which might be present. I
f
> the topcoat is STEWART SYSTEMS Waterborne Catalyzed EkoPoly you just need
to
> scuff sand an area 2=9D around the damaged area before patching. If
you are
> unsure of the topcoat or you know it is something other than STEWART SYST
EMS
> Waterborne Catalyzed EkoPoly Top Coat, you must sand down to the EkoFill
> coat 2=9D around the damaged area or to bare fabric if repairing a
solvent
> based system. Next glue your patch on the sanded area using EkoBond glue
and
> allow to dry. Heat shrink the fabric ONLY over the open hole under the
> patch. Finish Iron the patch edges at 250=C2=B0F. Apply EkoFill to desire
d
> thickness, sand and spray matching top coat. Stewart Systems is FAA appro
ved
> for repairing any certified covering system."
>
> Gary Boothe
> NX308MB
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> jarheadpilot82
> Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2013 12:15 PM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Covering systems
>
> -->
>
> I just sat in a fabric covering class at Oshkosh that was taught by John
> Goldenbaum of Poly Fiber and he stated what Scott said about not mixing
> components of one system with components of another system.
>
> Is there somewhere on the Stewart Systems website or publications that sa
ys
> it is compatible with all other systems? Nothing personal Mr. Haught. It
is
> just the "trust, but verify" part of how I like to look at these types of
> discussions when someone vehemently tells someone else that he is wrong
> about something that could kill you when flying.
>
> If you can find that and post a link, I am sure that it would be a help t
o
> all of us. Thanks.
>
> --------
> Semper Fi,
>
> Terry Hand
> Athens, GA
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407247#407247
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
<; &nb===================
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matro
nics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/con
tribution
===
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org> |
Bill, an amazing video. Looks like old hat to you. Fantastic job. Now I have a
big question to ask of you. Can I copy your parking brake system or do you have
a patent on it? I could pay you a royalty.
--------
Scott Liefeld
Flying N11MS since March 1972
Steel Tube
C-85-12
Wire Wheels
Brodhead in 1996
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407291#407291
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | danhelsper(at)aol.com |
Mike:
I agree. I do not have one, nor do I ever plan on having one......practical
ly speaking, (not in the vocabulary of logically thinking men....:.read: FA
A policy-maker's), it is not necessary to install one of these morfadite co
ntraptions, in this type of airplane, in my opinion.
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN
-----Original Message-----
From: Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC] (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage
Partners, LLC]
Sent: Thu, Aug 22, 2013 3:15 pm
Subject: Pietenpol-List: being found
With all this talk about ELT=99s I have to post that during my airwor
thiness inspection no mention of an ELT was ever made
and from day one I never installed one nor 15 years later have one. I
=99m sure it would be prudent to carry one but I=99ve just
never done it but then again I don=99t fly over mountains or rugged t
errain. I figure they=99ll just see the smoke and drive toward it.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
Fantastic, Bill!!
Gary Boothe
NX308MB
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of BYD
Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2013 5:18 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: NX626E
Just to prove Im not a four flusher heres the photographic proof I said would
be coming....
http://youtu.be/0y4PnKwikvM
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407283#407283
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dortch, Steven D MAJ MIL USA NGB" <steven.d.dortch(at)us.army.mil> |
| Subject: | Re: Fwd: Re: Fwd: Propeller Pictures |
UNCLASSIFIED
Michael Perez and other Pietenfolk, Below is the answer on why you should leave
scallops in your prop. The expert is Dave Rogers. He is a professor of aerodynamics
at a little boating school in Annapolis, Maryland. He owns and flies
Bonanzas and loves most everything that flies.
Blue Skies,
Steve D
-------- Original Message --------
From: dfr
Date: Aug 22, 2013 7:19:46 PM
Subject: Re: Fwd: Propeller Pictures
> G'day Steve,
>
> Leave the scallops. The experimental evidence (?) suggests that the propeller
> is more efficient with the scallops. The likely reason is that the scallops
> transition the boundary layer from laminar to turbulent. The turbulent boundary
> layer then stays attached longer which results in more lift (thrust).
>
> A propeller is nothing more than a wing spinning in a circle. I suspect that
> the Reynolds number is quite low, hence the turbulent boundary layer is better.
>
> There is a direct analogy with some towing tank studies done on a small sailboat
> rudder. The drag on the rudder was actually lower with a slightly rough finish,
than with
> an ultra smooth finish for the same reason.
>
> On the other hand, if you don't like the results you can always strip it, sand
it
> and refinish it. It is harder to do the reverse .
>
> Dave Rogers
>
> On 8/22/2013 6:42 PM, Dortch, Steven D MAJ MIL USA NGB wrote:
> >UNCLASSIFIED Dr. Dave, As you know I am finishing the restoration on a Pietenpol
Air camper.
> >A gentleman on the Pietenpol list posted this with the attached photos. The
question is "Do
> >the scallops help or hurt the prop efficiency? " I told him I would ask you
as a recognized
> >aerodynamics expert.
> >
> >"I received my CloudCars propeller yesterday. It is a 76 X 38 all maple scimitar
that I
> >ordered not finished...which saved me some money and allows me to finish, stain,
paint,
> >varnish as I want. As shipped, it weighs 10#. With it was a note from Jay Anderson
to call
> >him for some finishing tips. During our conversation, he told me that they seem
to get better
> >performance from the props. that are left with the "scallops" intact as opposed
to the
> >propellers that are sanded smooth. He also recommended that the "fields", (fiberglass
covered
> >tips) stay intact. Sounded like most people don't like the rough, patch-work
look of them and
> >try to fill/sand smooth. These fields form a nice, hard edge around the wood
that should also
> >be left intact. My plan was to sand the propeller smooth and make it as slick
as I could.
> >After our 40 min. conversation, I am now going to leave the prop. as shipped.
Jay said some
> >MILD sanding is fine to prep. it for it's first coat of protection, (paint,
! varnish,
> >stain...) but nothing more than that is needed. MILD sanding between coats is
also OK, but
> >keep it to a minimum."
> >
> >In other words "is it better to leave the "scallops" or is that an Old Pilots
Tale?
> >
> >Blue Skies, Steve D. UNCLASSIFIED
>
> --
> David F. Rogers, PhD, ATP
> Professor of Aerospace Engineering (Emeritus)
> Annapolis, MD
>
> Rogers Aerospace Engineering & Consulting
> Annapolis, MD
> Over 50 years of experience
> www.nar-associates.com
> 410 271 1968 (c)
UNCLASSIFIED
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Billy McCaskill" <billmz(at)cox.net> |
Outstanding! Very good looking airplane!
--------
Billy McCaskill
Baker, LA
tail section almost done, starting on ribs soon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407297#407297
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fwd: Re: Fwd: Propeller Pictures |
| From: | "Billy McCaskill" <billmz(at)cox.net> |
Steve, there was no answer below your post about leaving the scallops on wood props.
Perhaps you forgot to add the attachment(s)?
--------
Billy McCaskill
Baker, LA
tail section almost done, starting on ribs soon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407301#407301
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Covering systems |
| From: | "curtdm(at)gmail.com" <curtdm(at)gmail.com> |
Wow, look what one word lead to.
>From the original question posed, I never even thought about mixing the different
chemicals or repairing using different systems. I don't think John did either.
Just using different processes for different parts of the airplane.
Why one would, I don't know. Can they? I don't see why not.
--------
Curt Merdan
Flower Mound, TX
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407302#407302
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Boyer <boyerjrb(at)comcast.net> |
Very nice Bill; enjoyed seeing your video and I like your paint job too.
Cheers,
Jim B.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dortch, Steven D MAJ MIL USA NGB" <steven.d.dortch(at)us.army.mil> |
| Subject: | Re: Fwd: Re: Fwd: Propeller Pictures |
UNCLASSIFIED
Billy, Did it come through below?
Michael Perez and other Pietenfolk, Below is the answer on why you should leave
scallops in your prop. The expert is Dave Rogers. He is a professor of aerodynamics
at a little boating school in Annapolis, Maryland. He owns and flies
Bonanzas and loves most everything that flies.
Blue Skies,
Steve D
-------- Original Message --------
From: dfr
Date: Aug 22, 2013 7:19:46 PM
Subject: Re: Fwd: Propeller Pictures
> G'day Steve,
>
> Leave the scallops. The experimental evidence (?) suggests that the propeller
> is more efficient with the scallops. The likely reason is that the scallops
> transition the boundary layer from laminar to turbulent. The turbulent boundary
> layer then stays attached longer which results in more lift (thrust).
>
> A propeller is nothing more than a wing spinning in a circle. I suspect that
> the Reynolds number is quite low, hence the turbulent boundary layer is better.
>
> There is a direct analogy with some towing tank studies done on a small sailboat
> rudder. The drag on the rudder was actually lower with a slightly rough finish,
than with
> an ultra smooth finish for the same reason.
>
> On the other hand, if you don't like the results you can always strip it, sand
it
> and refinish it. It is harder to do the reverse .
>
> Dave Rogers
>
> On 8/22/2013 6:42 PM, Dortch, Steven D MAJ MIL USA NGB wrote:
> >UNCLASSIFIED Dr. Dave, As you know I am finishing the restoration on a Pietenpol
Air camper.
> >A gentleman on the Pietenpol list posted this with the attached photos. The
question is "Do
> >the scallops help or hurt the prop efficiency? " I told him I would ask you
as a recognized
> >aerodynamics expert.
> >
> >"I received my CloudCars propeller yesterday. It is a 76 X 38 all maple scimitar
that I
> >ordered not finished...which saved me some money and allows me to finish, stain,
paint,
> >varnish as I want. As shipped, it weighs 10#. With it was a note from Jay Anderson
to call
> >him for some finishing tips. During our conversation, he told me that they seem
to get better
> >performance from the props. that are left with the "scallops" intact as opposed
to the
> >propellers that are sanded smooth. He also recommended that the "fields", (fiberglass
covered
> >tips) stay intact. Sounded like most people don't like the rough, patch-work
look of them and
> >try to fill/sand smooth. These fields form a nice, hard edge around the wood
that should also
> >be left intact. My plan was to sand the propeller smooth and make it as slick
as I could.
> >After our 40 min. conversation, I am now going to leave the prop. as shipped.
Jay said some
> >MILD sanding is fine to prep. it for it's first coat of protection, (paint,
! varnish,
> >stain...) but nothing more than that is needed. MILD sanding between coats is
also OK, but
> >keep it to a minimum."
> >
> >In other words "is it better to leave the "scallops" or is that an Old Pilots
Tale?
> >
> >Blue Skies, Steve D. UNCLASSIFIED
>
> --
> David F. Rogers, PhD, ATP
> Professor of Aerospace Engineering (Emeritus)
> Annapolis, MD
>
> Rogers Aerospace Engineering & Consulting
> Annapolis, MD
> Over 50 years of experience
> www.nar-associates.com
> 410 271 1968 (c)
UNCLASSIFIED
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fwd: Re: Fwd: Propeller Pictures |
| From: | "Billy McCaskill" <billmz(at)cox.net> |
Still nothing, Steve.
--------
Billy McCaskill
Baker, LA
tail section almost done, starting on ribs soon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407311#407311
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fwd: Re: Fwd: Propeller Pictures |
Steve, thank you and Dave for the intell. below. I always like to get multi
ple inputs on matters that I am not sure of one way or another. (The mixing
of covering products/techniques is another good thread...) I know here at
work we, (not myself personally) have done some work with boundary layers a
nd their advantage to flying surfaces, so what I am hearing seems to ring t
rue.=0A=0AI am finished with my propeller, I applied the last coat of varni
sh yesterday. I did, in fact, leave it as shipped. As Dave mentioned, I fig
ured worst case, I could sand it all down smooth as glass later if needed..
.sounds like I won't.=0A=0AAs some of you may know, I also was not concerne
d with the "glass" like finish on the entire AC; the whole thing is painted
by brush.- Perhaps that slightly "textured" surface will actually help p
erformance on some small scale...=0A=0ANext up is the dimple tape all aroun
d all of the exposed round tube and maybe the LE of the streamline tube.-
(I kid...)=0A=0AThanks again.=0A=0A=0A-=0AMichael Perez=0APietenpol HINT
Videos=0AKaretaker Aero=0Awww.karetakeraero.com=0A=0A=0A=0A>______________
__________________=0A>=0A>- =0A>> G'day Steve,=0A>> =0A>> Leave the scall
ops. The experimental evidence (?) suggests that the propeller=0A>> is more
efficient with the scallops. The likely reason is that the scallops=0A>> t
ransition the boundary layer from laminar to turbulent. The turbulent bound
ary=0A>> layer then stays attached longer which results in more lift (thrus
t).=0A>> =0A>> A propeller is nothing more than a wing spinning in a circle
. I suspect that=0A>> the Reynolds number is quite low, hence the turbulent
boundary layer is better.=0A>> =0A>> There is a direct analogy with some t
owing tank studies done on a small sailboat=0A>> rudder. The drag on the ru
dder was actually lower with a slightly rough finish, than with=0A>> an ult
ra smooth finish for the same reason.=0A>> =0A>> On the other hand, if you
don't like the results you can always strip it, sand it=0A>> and refinish i
t. It is harder to do the reverse .=0A>> =0A>> Dave Rogers=0A>> =0A>> On
8/22/2013 6:42 PM, Dortch, Steven D MAJ MIL USA NGB wrote:=0A>> >UNCLASSIF
IED Dr. Dave, As you know I am finishing the restoration on a Pietenpol Air
camper.=0A>> >A gentleman on the Pietenpol list posted this with the attac
hed photos. The question is "Do=0A>> >the scallops help or hurt the prop ef
ficiency? " I told him I would ask you as a recognized=0A>> >aerodynamics e
xpert.=0A>=0A>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dortch, Steven D MAJ MIL USA NGB" <steven.d.dortch(at)us.army.mil> |
| Subject: | Re: Fwd: Re: Fwd: Propeller Pictures |
UNCLASSIFIED
Did anyone else get it? It comes back to me complete.
On 08/23/13, Billy McCaskill wrote:
>
> Still nothing, Steve.
>
> --------
> Billy McCaskill
> Baker, LA
> tail section almost done, starting on ribs soon
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407311#407311
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
UNCLASSIFIED
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <jack(at)bedfordlandings.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fwd: Re: Fwd: Propeller Pictures |
I got it, and it made perfect sense. It's the same principle as putting
dimples on golf balls to make the boundary layer transition from Laminar to
Turbulent flow. It used to be that all golf balls were smooth, but some
golfers discovered that an old, cut up ball with dings and gouges would
travel further than a new smooth ball. Wind tunnel testing confirmed it and
the manufacturers starting putting dimples on golf balls. Check out:
http://entertainment.howstuffworks.com/sports/golf/basics/question37.htm
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dortch,
Steven D MAJ MIL USA NGB
Sent: Friday, August 23, 2013 7:05 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fwd: Re: Fwd: Propeller Pictures
UNCLASSIFIED
Did anyone else get it? It comes back to me complete.
On 08/23/13, Billy McCaskill wrote:
>
> Still nothing, Steve.
>
> --------
> Billy McCaskill
> Baker, LA
> tail section almost done, starting on ribs soon
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407311#407311
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
UNCLASSIFIED
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dortch, Steven D MAJ MIL USA NGB" <steven.d.dortch(at)us.army.mil> |
| Subject: | Re: Fwd: Re: Fwd: Propeller Pictures |
UNCLASSIFIED
Micheal, sounds like your plane will be a speed demon. Are ready to compete in
the low and really slow experimental division at Reno? Perhaps you should step
up to unlimited! ;+}
Blue Skies,
Steve D
On 08/23/13, Michael Perez wrote:
>
>
>
> Steve, thank you and Dave for the intell. below. I always like to get multiple
inputs on matters that I am not sure of one way or another. (The mixing of covering
products/techniques is another good thread...) I know here at work we,
(not myself personally) have done some work with boundary layers and their advantage
to flying surfaces, so what I am hearing seems to ring true.
>
> I am finished with my propeller, I applied the last coat of varnish yesterday.
I did, in fact, leave it as shipped. As Dave mentioned, I figured worst case,
I could sand it all down smooth as glass later if needed...sounds like I won't.
>
> As some of you may know, I also was not concerned with the "glass" like finish
on the entire AC; the whole thing is painted by brush. Perhaps that slightly
"textured" surface will actually help performance on some small scale...
>
> Next up is the dimple tape all around all of the exposed round tube and maybe
the LE of the streamline tube. (I kid...)
>
> Thanks again.
>
>
>
> Michael Perez
> Pietenpol HINT Videos
> Karetaker Aero
> www.karetakeraero.com
>
>
> >
> >
> > > G'day Steve,
> > >
> > > Leave the scallops. The experimental evidence (?) suggests that the propeller
> > > is more efficient with the scallops. The likely reason is that the scallops
> > > transition the boundary layer from laminar to turbulent. The turbulent boundary
> > > layer then stays attached longer which results in more lift (thrust).
> > >
> > > A propeller is nothing more than a wing spinning in a circle. I suspect that
> > > the Reynolds number is quite low, hence the turbulent boundary layer is better.
> > >
> > > There is a direct analogy with some towing tank studies done on a small sailboat
> > > rudder. The drag on the rudder was actually lower with a slightly rough finish,
than with
> > > an ultra smooth finish for the same reason.
> > >
> > > On the other hand, if you don't like the results you can always strip it,
sand it
> > > and refinish it. It is harder to do the reverse .
> > >
> > > Dave Rogers
> > >
> > > On 8/22/2013 6:42 PM, Dortch, Steven D MAJ MIL USA NGB wrote:
> > > >UNCLASSIFIED Dr. Dave, As you know I am finishing the restoration on a Pietenpol
Air camper.
> > > >A gentleman on the Pietenpol list posted this with the attached photos.
The question is "Do
> > > >the scallops help or hurt the prop efficiency? " I told him I would ask
you as a recognized
> > > >aerodynamics expert.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
UNCLASSIFIED
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fwd: Re: Fwd: Propeller Pictures |
I received the reply via. email. It appears that it is not going through th
e web list, so I kept it on the bottom of my reply back. That reply, with t
he intel. from Dave, are on the web list now.=0A=0A=0A-=0AMichael Perez
=0APietenpol HINT Videos=0AKaretaker Aero=0Awww.karetakeraero.com=0A=0A=0A
=0A>________________________________=0A> From: "Dortch, Steven D MAJ MIL US
A NGB" =0A>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
=0A>Sent: Friday, August 23, 2013 7:05 AM=0A>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: F
wd: Re: Fwd: Propeller Pictures =0A> =0A>=0A>--> Pietenpol-List message pos
ted by: "Dortch, Steven D MAJ MIL USA NGB" =0A
>=0A>UNCLASSIFIED=0A>Did anyone else get it? It comes back to me complete.
=0A>=0A>On 08/23/13, Billy McCaskill- wrote:=0A>> --> Pietenpol-List mess
age posted by: "Billy McCaskill" =0A>> =0A>> Still nothing,
Steve.=0A>> =0A>> --------=0A>> Billy McCaskill=0A>> Baker, LA=0A>> tail s
ection almost done, starting on ribs soon=0A>> =0A>> =0A>> =0A>> =0A>> Read
this topic online here:=0A>> =0A>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p
hp?p=407311#407311=0A>> =0A>> =0A>> =0A>> =0A>> =0A>> =0A>> =0A>UNCLASSIF
====0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mario Giacummo <mario.giacummo(at)gmail.com> |
Muy bueeeno!!! Felicitaciones!!!
Mario Giacummo
2013/8/22 BYD
>
> Just to prove I=92m not a four flusher ' here=92s the photographic proo
f I
> said would be coming....
>
> http://youtu.be/0y4PnKwikvM
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407283#407283
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
Congratulations Bill!- Very nice plane and video. Go Pro I am guessing?
=0A=0AMichael Perez=0A=0APietenpol HINT Videos=0AKaretaker Aero=0Awww.karet
akeraero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Bill Sayre's First Flight NX626E |
Fantastic video Bill and what a smooth touch you have on the stick. Your
Stinson 108 and Boredom Fighter flying
hours showed up clearly on your video. I like how you touched down and af
ter you decelerated you lifted up in
your seat and let out a big exhale. Many of us know that feel so well!
I still get that on gusty crosswind days after
landing and seeing that the whole plane is still intact. Great job, beaut
iful plane, and now let the real fun begin.
PS-why didn't you wait for a gusty, windy, lousy day for your first flight
like so many seem to do? You picked a picture-perfect
weather slot! Uncle Tony would be super-proud of you!
Mike C.
PSS-did you powder your beard just to make you look more experienced? :)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "TOM STINEMETZE" <TOMS(at)mcpcity.com> |
Way to go Bill. First flight over water yet. You 'da man!
Stinemetze
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chuck Campbell <cncampbell(at)outlook.com> |
| Subject: | Re: being found (OT about getting away with stuff) |
Considering R.R's comments=2C I have a comment. I have been flying since 1
942. have somewhere in the neighbor hood of 10=2C000 hours in Military and
General Aviation aircraft. Have been into a bunch of airports -- large and
small -- have been tied down on a bunch of flight lines -- and=2C get this
=2C I HAVE NEVER BEEN RAMP CHECKED. I'm sure all the GA aircraft I flew we
re properly certificated=2C but the FAA didn't know that. I agree with R.
R. -- we don't need the FAA with all their stupid regulations that don't me
an anything. If I ever get ramp checked I might change my mind. C
PS. I think I will finish my Piet and go fly it without bothering with all
the unnecessary paper work. I DIDN'T SAY I WAS GOING TO DO THAT -- JUST T
HAT I'M THINKING ABOUT IT.
> Date: Thu=2C 22 Aug 2013 12:56:28 -0400
> From: r.r.hall(at)cox.net
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: being found (OT about getting away with
stuff)
>
>
> Guys=2C
>
> The enforcement of all FAA rules is pretty hit and miss in the small plan
e arens I think. When I bought my one off homebuilt from the original build
er he told me the whole story of how he built it out of wood based on a pop
ular metal plane of the time including a V tail but the mixing control was
maladjusted on his first flight and he crashed. The plane was rebuilt with
a bigger engine and standard tail form and flown for many years afterward.
What I didn't realize was that the original Op Lims stated that "any major
changes invalidate the airworthiness certificate". Being as it was subject
to two major changes the AW cert was totally invalid and had been for the m
any years it flew. When I discovered this I decided to get it straightened
out. As a result I spent several months corresponding with the FAA=2C DAR
and DER but finally obtained a new airworthiness certificate and am in the
process of flying off the 40 hours of Phase 1 (if the stupid weather would
ever cooperate). !
> My point is=2C if someone can fly an airplane for 20 years with an inval
id airworthiness cert. what else are people getting away with on a daily ba
sis? Whatever they are "getting away with" it surely doesn't seem to impact
GA safety too much and kinda makes me question the whole need for all this
bureaucracy. 3rd class medical is a perfect example. Lots of people are fl
ying without medicals yet the accident rate hasn't gone through the roof. I
n my opinion you should only need a medical if you are flying commercially
i.e. someone is paying you. That is just one example=2C all these ADs and m
andatory ADSB would be another. Is it really going to enhance safety? How m
any GA midair collisions were there last year?
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chuck Campbell <cncampbell(at)outlook.com> |
| Subject: | Covering systems |
Who would know? Chuck
> Date: Thu=2C 22 Aug 2013 11:48:22 -0500
> From: jbfjr(at)peoplepc.com
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Covering systems
>
>
> Pietsters=2C
>
> Is it legal (??..perhaps the wrong term) to cover parts of the plane=2C s
ay the wings and tail surfaces=2C with the Polyfiber system and then cover
the fuselage with the Stewart system? Seems like I remember reading somewh
ere that you can't mix systems on the same plane.
>
> Thanks=2C
> John Franklin
> Prairie Aire 4TA0
> Needville=2C TX
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "aerocarjake" <flight.jake(at)gmail.com> |
Way to go Bill - great inspiration....!!!!
Bernard would be very pleased.
THANKS for posting the video..................................
Jake
--------
Jake Schultz - curator,
Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407360#407360
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ray Krause <raykrause(at)frontiernet.net> |
Way too cool! That was quite an adventurous flight for the FIRST FLIGHT!
You are an inspiration.
Thanks,
Ray Krause
SkyScout in progress
Sent from my iPad
On Aug 22, 2013, at 5:18 PM, "BYD" wrote:
>
> Just to prove Im not a four flusher heres the photographic proof I said would
be coming....
>
> http://youtu.be/0y4PnKwikvM
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407283#407283
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "echobravo4" <eab4(at)comcast.net> |
Very cool!
Congratulations Bill, very nice job
--------
Earl Brown
I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I
intended to be.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407370#407370
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Bill Sayre's First Flight NX626E |
| From: | "BYD" <billsayre(at)ymail.com> |
My beard was a darker shade when I started this project!!!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407373#407373
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "BYD" <billsayre(at)ymail.com> |
AircamperN11MS wrote:
> Can I copy your parking brake system or do you have a patent on it? I could pay
you a royalty.
It has been suggested that I draw up plans for that system, but I just can't seem
to find the time. If you can figure out the complexities, you welcome to use
it - just be advised that there are no warranties and you assume all liabilities.
Bill
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407375#407375
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org> |
Thanks Bill. I'll give it a try this weekend. Hope it doesn't throw off my W&B.
--------
Scott Liefeld
Flying N11MS since March 1972
Steel Tube
C-85-12
Wire Wheels
Brodhead in 1996
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407378#407378
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fwd: Re: Fwd: Propeller Pictures |
| From: | "Billy McCaskill" <billmz(at)cox.net> |
The explanation showed up in the email digest this morning, but wasn't showing
up on the forum. Odd.
--------
Billy McCaskill
Baker, LA
tail section almost done, starting on ribs soon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407380#407380
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "BYD" <billsayre(at)ymail.com> |
> "speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.n"]
> Congratulations Bill! Very nice plane and video. Go Pro I am guessing?
>
> Michael Perez
Drift Innovation HD720
Has built in screen (for aiming/setting up) and rotatable lens so if the camera
is at an angle you can still get a level shot. Well under $100 new in box at
Amazon.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407388#407388
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Claude Corbett <isablcorky(at)aol.com> |
Sent from my iPad
On Aug 23, 2013, at 12:58 PM, "BYD" wrote:
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
I just had a chance to view the video. Now I see what the patented parking brake
looks like! Super nice flight Bill, and the landing could not have been better.
I must say, the prop sure does stop suddenly when you shutdown the engine.
Must be that 12:1 compression ;o)
I don't think I've ever seen a setup where the cabanes are braced with the X-wires
on one side and a brace tube on the other. Makes perfect sense since the
passenger always boards from the port side, but still a little unusual.
Congratulations again!
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407414#407414
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "BYD" <billsayre(at)ymail.com> |
Hi Oscar, The patented parking brake came to me when I was wondering how to secure
the ship at a location that didnt offer someplace to tie the tail. It occurred
to me that Id have ropes to tie the plane down and I could use them for
double-duty like you see in the video.
You have seen the cabane support system I used before go back and look at N2431
that I used to own and youll recognize it. After a discussion with Vi Kapler
where he mentioned that just the cross-wires alone made for a flexing wing,
I decided to replicate that feature.
And although I am running a high-compression head (for a Model-A), I think the
sudden stop is more a factor of a newly broken-in engine. I imagine both factor
in.
Thanks for the compliments, and now that youre on the west coast again, maybe well
meet at a function in between our locations!
Bill
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407458#407458
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
Bill; I'd be curious to hear more about the flexing wing discussion. I'm not sure
how that translates back to the cabanes and their bracing.
Next July I plan to fly Scout to the event at Arlington that used to be the Northwest
fly-in. That is, if I survive the West Coast fly-in down to Frazier Lake
next June ;o)
In January 2014 I will have officially entered early geezerhood... eligible for
Social Security ;o) I will reward myself with some x-c flying in 2014.
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407460#407460
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Control system bearings |
| From: | TOM MICHELLE BRANT <tmbrant(at)msn.com> |
What are people using for bearings in the control system. For the torque tube
I thought some 1" .049 tube would work but seems a bit loose. Could machine something
down from a thicker tube or look into a buyout part. Curious what others
are using.
Tom B.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "skipgadd(at)earthlink.net" <skipgadd(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Control system bearings |
Tom,
.058 is the magic size. The ID of any size will fit the OD of the next
smaller size.
Skip
> [Original Message]
> From: TOM MICHELLE BRANT <tmbrant(at)msn.com>
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: 8/25/2013 4:21:05 PM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Control system bearings
>
>
> What are people using for bearings in the control system. For the torque
tube I thought some 1" .049 tube would work but seems a bit loose. Could
machine something down from a thicker tube or look into a buyout part.
Curious what others are using.
>
> Tom B.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dortch, Steven D MAJ MIL USA NGB" <steven.d.dortch(at)us.army.mil> |
| Subject: | Cowling reinstall |
UNCLASSIFIED
Gentlemen and Oscar, I have started working on the cowling. When Attached, the
bottom cowling (chin) attaches easily. But the portion around the prop looks like
it is sticking too far forward and will interfere with the prop right around
where the prop bolts are. It does not improve when I add the top portion of
the cowling. The design appears to me that it needs to be back enough to put
small Rclips to attach the top to the bottom next to the prop.
It is also tight against the air filter and seems not square to the filter.
Any Ideas before a take a BFH to it to hammer it into shape?
Blue Skies,
Steve D
UNCLASSIFIED
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "BYD" <billsayre(at)ymail.com> |
Cool. I just entered geezerhood myself and can relate that its fine. As far as
the flexing wing discussion, Vi related that with just the cross bracing for
the cabanes, he felt the fuselage in a sense could yaw while the wing continues
straight (my description not his). I suppose in turns but dont remember him
saying that. He did mention that at first it could be a little unnerving.
Myself, Ive pretty much stayed away from Arlington since it grew into the third
largest aviation event in the nation. Its part of that geezerhood mentality.
The more pages an event has in its NOTAM, the less likely I am to attend. Ill
try to pay attention if you come up and maybe intercept you at a fuel stop
or something.
Bill
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407476#407476
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ray Krause <raykrause(at)frontiernet.net> |
Bill,
Where are you located "in the West"?
Ray Krause
SkyScout in progress
Colusa, CA
Sent from my iPad
On Aug 25, 2013, at 7:20 PM, "BYD" wrote:
>
> Cool. I just entered geezerhood myself and can relate that its fine. As far
as the flexing wing discussion, Vi related that with just the cross bracing for
the cabanes, he felt the fuselage in a sense could yaw while the wing continues
straight (my description not his). I suppose in turns but dont remember
him saying that. He did mention that at first it could be a little unnerving.
>
> Myself, Ive pretty much stayed away from Arlington since it grew into the third
largest aviation event in the nation. Its part of that geezerhood mentality.
The more pages an event has in its NOTAM, the less likely I am to attend.
Ill try to pay attention if you come up and maybe intercept you at a fuel stop
or something.
>
> Bill
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407476#407476
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Cowling reinstall |
| From: | "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
Steve (and gentlemen)-
Put down the BFH. Sit and listen. When I first installed (re-installed) the cowlings
on Scout, I had the same experience as you did. The bottom half went
on quite well (after I weaseled and scooched and prayed it into place around the
exhaust stacks, filter, and air box), and I secured it to the four bosses that
attach it to the firewall so that it would not move. Then I started with
the top half.
I can take some pictures of the setup on Scout, and in fact I'm pretty sure that
I already have some if I can find them, but the front of the cowling sits pretty
close to the back of the prop bolts and all those whirling things. Not so
close that they rub, but pretty close just the same. My top and bottom halves
are fastened together at the front with about 3 PK screws and Tinnerman nuts
on each side of the hole where the prop flange shaft comes through, so they
aren't going anywhere.
I'm thinking pictures may be quite useful here, so I'll see what I've got. Do
not employ the BFH; we are craftsmen, not cavemen. At any rate, only employ the
BFH when the hangar doors are closed and Tech Counselors cannot observe your
actions.
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407479#407479
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
>From what I find on the FAA aircraft registry database, Bill is based in Gig Harbor,
WA. He can probably see Tacoma across the narrows to the east. Bill,
I would be perfectly happy to skip the big event at Arlington and just visit with
friends instead. It would probably be cheaper, and undoubtedly less stressful
;o) I have a friend over on the Oly Pen in Port Angeles with his own strip,
my friend Kyle Rash is over on Rosario Strait in Anacortes, and I have so
many other friends up in Washington state that I'd like to visit (including Jake
Schultz in Bellevue)-!
You're talking me out of trying to go to a big fly-in and have fun instead. Good
for you! Pietenpols forever!
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407480#407480
August 15, 2013 - August 25, 2013
Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-mv