Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-nb

November 17, 2013 - December 04, 2013



      >>>
      >>> Only change needed after flight - add front support for cowling (air
      >>> pressure pushed it against prop hub), flew hands off, no trim needed.
      >>>
      >>> Want to thank everyone on the forum (and WW) for providing answers to
      >>> all my stupid questions and moral support. Building a machine from scratch
      >>> and flying it is definitely one of the most memorable events you will ever
      >>> experience as everyone that has done it has said.
      >>>
      >>> One other thing I learned, putting a video camera on top of a Pietenpol
      >>> fin makes for a shaky video at full power (but it's better than no video):
      >>>
      >>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YLxFp0JLhU
      >>>
      >>> Thank again guys
      >>>
      >>> --
      >>> Rick Holland
      >>> Castle Rock, Colorado
      >>> NX6819Z
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>  *
      >>>
      >>> 3D============================================
      >>> ">
      >>> 3D============================================
      >>> 3D============================================
      >>> 3D============================================
      >>> *
      >>>
      >>>
      >>
      >>
      >> --
      >> Rick Holland
      >> Castle Rock, Colorado
      >> NX6819Z
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >> *
      >>
      >> _blank">www.aeroelectric.com <http://www.aeroelectric.com>
      >> .com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com <http://www.buildersbooks.com>
      >> ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com <http://www.homebuilthelp.com>
      >> ="_blank">www.mypilotstore.com <http://www.mypilotstore.com>
      >> ank">www.mrrace.com <http://www.mrrace.com>
      >> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution 
      >> " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List 
      >> tp://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com>
      >> *
      >>
      >>
      > *
      >
      > *
      >
      >
      
      
      -- 
      Rick Holland
      Castle Rock, Colorado
      NX6819Z
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 17, 2013
Subject: Re: Rick's flight
From: Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com>
OOPs By project I mean, one more step on the way to flight with his Piet. Having said that, I may do a Primary glider, or restore a model T, Or make a Belly flopper. Then again I will be involved in getting my 1948 Vtail Bonanza up and annualed again. This Bonanza is really a kit plane that came assembled as a Beech Bonanza. I have disassembled and reassembled most of the plane over 12 or so years. A man needs a 4 seat cross country machine. Of note, This old plane will fly on Autogas (But no alcohol) and gets about 18 MPG with 4 adults at 170MPH. Thus it is a great cross country except for the maintenance of an old aircraft. My hope is that some current FAA proposals will greatly lower the cost a old plane mantenance. Experimentals forever. On Sun, Nov 17, 2013 at 9:29 PM, Rick Holland wrote: > What would that new project be Steve? My next project will be a Panther > with yet another Corvair engine (3 liter this time), started looking for a > core engine right after my first test flight: > > http://flywithspa.com/panther/pantherspecs.html > > I really need something to do out in my garage besides working on cars. > > Rick H > > > On Sun, Nov 17, 2013 at 7:13 PM, Steven Dortch wrote: > >> Rick, this inspired me to go do one more project. Mine will be forthrigh t >> just like yours. >> Steve D >> >> >> On Sun, Nov 17, 2013 at 6:41 PM, Rick Holland wrote : >> >>> Thank you Douwe, attached a picture, ready to fly, not so much a piece >>> of art and engineering like yours. You are the Pietenpol renaissance ma n. >>> >>> Rick H >>> >>> >>> On Sat, Nov 16, 2013 at 12:27 PM, Douwe Blumberg < >>> douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> wrote: >>> >>>> Yay Rick!!! Way to go! >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Send in some pics of your plane, I don=92t think I=92ve seen her all >>>> finished up. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Douwe >>>> >>>> * >>>> >>>> _blank">www.aeroelectric.com <http://www.aeroelectric.com> >>>> .com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com <http://www.buildersbook s.com> >>>> ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com <http://www.homebuilthelp.com> >>>> ="_blank">www.mypilotstore.com <http://www.mypilotstore.com> >>>> ank">www.mrrace.com <http://www.mrrace.com> >>>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >>>> " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List> >>>> tp://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com> >>>> * >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Rick Holland >>> Castle Rock, Colorado >>> NX6819Z >>> >>> >>> >> >> * >> >> _blank">www.aeroelectric.com <http://www.aeroelectric.com> >> .com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com <http://www.buildersbooks. com> >> ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com <http://www.homebuilthelp.com> >> ="_blank">www.mypilotstore.com <http://www.mypilotstore.com> >> ank">www.mrrace.com <http://www.mrrace.com> >> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List >> tp://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com> >> * >> >> > > > -- > Rick Holland > Castle Rock, Colorado > NX6819Z > > > * > =========== m> ldersbooks.com> .com> com> om/contribution> =========== .matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List> =========== =========== > * > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 17, 2013
Subject: Re: Almost ten years later
From: Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com>
My first "hop and pop" where I pulled the ripcord was pretty funny. The instructor really drove home "I want to hear your count. "Arch one thousand, Look One thousand, Reach One thousand, Pull one thousand." When I let go of the Cessna Strut, I did the above count perfect and yelled it very loud. However, before I finished yelling "Arch one thousand!" I had my ripcord fully pulled and at arms length from my body. I continued the count as though nothing was unusual. I would bet I was about 6 inches from the strut when I pulled the ripcord. I did relax later over the next 495 jumps. Blue Skies, Steve D. On Sun, Nov 17, 2013 at 9:36 PM, Rick Holland wrote: > Steve > > I said the Piet flight was the most exciting thing SINCE the sky dive, not > necessarily more exciting. It is a very different kind of excitement > (terror) though, the sky dive was static line so I was just like a bag of > cement being dropped from 3000 ft. my fate was totally in the hands of some > guy that packed the chute. With an airplane first flight you are in control > and your actions (reactions) mean everything. > > rh > > > On Sun, Nov 17, 2013 at 7:10 PM, Steven Dortch wrote: > >> You must have forgotten how exciting that skydive was!!! Yahoo. >> Adrenaline junkies forever. Each flight is exciting. And first flights more >> so! >> >> >> >> On Sun, Nov 17, 2013 at 7:13 PM, Rick Holland wrote: >> >>> Thank you Randy. That first flight was the most exciting thing I have >>> done since my first sky dive back in the 70s (but much more fun). >>> >>> Rick H >>> >>> >>> On Sat, Nov 16, 2013 at 7:53 AM, Robert Bush wrote: >>> >>>> Congratulations Rick, glad to see you in the air. Makes all those years >>>> of work worth it doesn't it? >>>> On another note, there is a good write up in the October issue of >>>> general aviation news on Greg Cardinal and Bob Poore and their piets. >>>> Randy Bush >>>> NX294RB >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> On Nov 15, 2013, at 2:17 PM, Rick Holland wrote: >>>> >>>> Ordered my Pietenpol plans on 10/28/2003 and it flew the first time on >>>> 10/24/2013, four days short of ten years later. >>>> >>>> Some details: >>>> >>>> Engine: Corvair 2700 cc >>>> Prop: Tennessee 66x30 >>>> Empty wt: 736 >>>> Flight test CG (half fuel): 16 1/4" aft of LE (1 1/4" back from front >>>> limit, cabanes vertical) >>>> Runway elevation: 6840 ft. >>>> Temp: 53F >>>> Runway density alt: 8112 ft. >>>> Maneuvering altitude over airport: 9000 ft (10215 ft. DA, and could >>>> easily go higher) >>>> Total flight time in last 38 years prior to flight: 2 hrs dual in 172 >>>> and .9 hr of dual touch and goes in back seat of a Decathlon. >>>> CHT: 370 F max on climb and 340 F at cruise (stock 12 plate cooler). >>>> Oil Pressure: mid 40s >>>> >>>> >>>> Flight went great. I have flown lots of spam cans and although I am >>>> bias of course I have to agree with Mike C and Jack P when they say that >>>> nothing is as much fun as flyin a Piet. Very easy to fly, takeoff and land >>>> (even with zero time in type). >>>> >>>> Only change needed after flight - add front support for cowling (air >>>> pressure pushed it against prop hub), flew hands off, no trim needed. >>>> >>>> Want to thank everyone on the forum (and WW) for providing answers to >>>> all my stupid questions and moral support. Building a machine from scratch >>>> and flying it is definitely one of the most memorable events you will ever >>>> experience as everyone that has done it has said. >>>> >>>> One other thing I learned, putting a video camera on top of a Pietenpol >>>> fin makes for a shaky video at full power (but it's better than no video): >>>> >>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YLxFp0JLhU >>>> >>>> Thank again guys >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Rick Holland >>>> Castle Rock, Colorado >>>> NX6819Z >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> * >>>> >>>> 3D============================================ >>>> "> >>>> 3D============================================ >>>> 3D============================================ >>>> 3D============================================ >>>> * >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Rick Holland >>> Castle Rock, Colorado >>> NX6819Z >>> >>> >>> >>> * >>> >>> _blank">www.aeroelectric.com <http://www.aeroelectric.com> >>> .com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com <http://www.buildersbooks.com> >>> ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com <http://www.homebuilthelp.com> >>> ="_blank">www.mypilotstore.com <http://www.mypilotstore.com> >>> ank">www.mrrace.com <http://www.mrrace.com> >>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >>> " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List >>> tp://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com> >>> * >>> >>> >> * >> >> _blank">www.aeroelectric.com <http://www.aeroelectric.com> >> .com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com <http://www.buildersbooks.com> >> ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com <http://www.homebuilthelp.com> >> ="_blank">www.mypilotstore.com <http://www.mypilotstore.com> >> ank">www.mrrace.com <http://www.mrrace.com> >> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List >> tp://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com> >> * >> >> > > > -- > Rick Holland > Castle Rock, Colorado > NX6819Z > > > * > > * > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: How Much Fabric?
From: "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Nov 17, 2013
Terry; I have never covered a complete Air Camper, so I'm just going by information that I found in my own search of the archives a few years ago when I was doing latex paint testing. The writeup for those tests can be found here: http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/paint/paint.html You will notice that the section of text between the two images of the unfinished test panel and the finished test panel lists 38 yards of 60" width fabric. Again, since I have never covered a complete airplane I have no idea whether this is accurate or not, and in any case it does not allow for any overhang, patches, or wiggle room. Your mileage may vary. However, that adds up to 570 sq. ft. of fabric and the number that you mention in your post, 6' x 135', adds up to 810 sq. ft. or about 40% more than the number that I had. Let's keep this ball in play for awhile and see who else chimes in with recent covering experience and quantity. Chris Rusch, Ken Bickers, and a few others should have fresh info. -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=413261#413261 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 17, 2013
Subject: Re: How Much Fabric?
From: Ken Bickers <bickers.ken(at)gmail.com>
I recently completed covering my Pietenpol. If all goes well, I may even be able to finish painting it by Thanksgiving (except for the cowl and nosebowl, which still await fabrication). My original order of 37 yards of the 1.8 oz 72" wide uncertified ceconite from Aircraft Spruce came up a few yards short. So I ended up ordering another 5 yards of the same material. I used balsa to fair my diagonal struts and jury struts and covered all of those with fabric. Otherwise, the 37 yards would have been more than enough. I bought all of the rest of my covering supplies from Stewart Systems. That included 1 gallon and 1 quart of the glue, a gallon of fabric and wood primer, a quart of the metal primer, a quart of the etching solution, and miscellaneous other items. The SS quantities were spot on. I will end up with small amounts of each item remaining, without the need for any additional amounts. Cheers, Ken On Sun, Nov 17, 2013 at 9:28 PM, taildrags wrote: > > Terry; > > I have never covered a complete Air Camper, so I'm just going by > information that I found in my own search of the archives a few years ago > when I was doing latex paint testing. The writeup for those tests can be > found here: > http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/paint/paint.html > > You will notice that the section of text between the two images of the > unfinished test panel and the finished test panel lists 38 yards of 60" > width fabric. Again, since I have never covered a complete airplane I have > no idea whether this is accurate or not, and in any case it does not allow > for any overhang, patches, or wiggle room. Your mileage may vary. > However, that adds up to 570 sq. ft. of fabric and the number that you > mention in your post, 6' x 135', adds up to 810 sq. ft. or about 40% more > than the number that I had. Let's keep this ball in play for awhile and > see who else chimes in with recent covering experience and quantity. Chris > Rusch, Ken Bickers, and a few others should have fresh info. > > -------- > Oscar Zuniga > Medford, OR > Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" > A75 power > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=413261#413261 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 17, 2013
From: jim hyde <jnl96(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: How Much Fabric?
if you get some free time read this=0A-=0Ajim=0A=0AFrom: taildrags <taild rags(at)hotmail.com>=0ATo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com =0ASent: Sunday, Novem ber 17, 2013 10:28 PM=0ASubject: Pietenpol-List: Re: How Much Fabric?=0A=0A >=0A=0ATerry;=0A=0AI have never covered a complete Air Camper, so I'm just going by information that I found in my own search of the archives a few ye ars ago when I was doing latex paint testing.- The writeup for those test s can be found here:=0Ahttp://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/paint/paint.html=0A =0AYou will notice that the section of text between the two images of the u nfinished test panel and the finished test panel lists 38 yards of 60" widt h fabric.- Again, since I have never covered a complete airplane I have n o idea whether this is accurate or not, and in any case it does not allow f or any overhang, patches, or wiggle room.- Your mileage may vary.- Howe ver, that adds up to 570 sq. ft. of fabric and the number that you mention in your post, 6' x 135', adds up to 810 sq. ft. or about 40% more than the number that I had.- Let's keep this ball in play for awhile and see who e lse chimes in with recent covering experience and quantity.- Chris Rusch, Ken Bickers, and a few others should have fresh info.=0A=0A--------=0AOsca r Zuniga=0AMedford, OR=0AAir Camper NX41CC "Scout"=0AA75 power=0A =0A=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com/v - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -Matt Dralle, List ======================= ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 17, 2013
Subject: Re: How Much Fabric?
From: Ken Bickers <bickers.ken(at)gmail.com>
... one correction. Stewart Systems sent me two gallons of the fabric primer (EkoFill). I should end up with about a quart or so remaining. On Sun, Nov 17, 2013 at 10:05 PM, jim hyde wrote: > if you get some free time read this > > jim > > *From:* taildrags > *To:* pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > *Sent:* Sunday, November 17, 2013 10:28 PM > *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: Re: How Much Fabric? > > > Terry; > > I have never covered a complete Air Camper, so I'm just going by > information that I found in my own search of the archives a few years ago > when I was doing latex paint testing. The writeup for those tests can be > found here: > http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/paint/paint.html > > You will notice that the section of text between the two images of the > unfinished test panel and the finished test panel lists 38 yards of 60" > width fabric. Again, since I have never covered a complete airplane I have > no idea whether this is accurate or not, and in any case it does not allow > for any overhang, patches, or wiggle room. Your mileage may vary. > However, that adds up to 570 sq. ft. of fabric and the number that you > mention in your post, 6' x 135', adds up to 810 sq. ft. or about 40% more > than the number that I had. Let's keep this ball in play for awhile and > see who else chimes in with recent covering experience and quantity. Chris > Rusch, Ken Bickers, and a few others should have fresh info. > > -------- > Oscar Zuniga > Medford, OR > Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" > > A75 power > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=413261#413261/www.matronics.com/contribution" > target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/c -Matt Dralle, List > Admin.< gt; <http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=413261#413261> > http://forums.matronics.com/> > ============= > > > * > > * > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ray Krause <raykrause(at)frontiernet.net>
Subject: Re: Steel Tube Fuselage Passenger Door Fabrication
Date: Nov 17, 2013
Jake, What a coincidence! This is exactly what I have been pondering the last few days as I finish up the last few details on my fuselage. I am also using rudder pedals and toe brakes. If I had stuck with Bernard's design, I would not have this problem! That rudder horn looks pretty fragile if I ever really get on the brakes in a panic stop (or more accurately, a panic slow down). Mike, I am referencing Uncle Tony's tomes. I am leaning towards the two pulleys and one cable connected from one pedal to the other. That way, the rudder cables will stay in the same place as designed and undue stress will not be transferred to the rudder horn. Ray Krause SkyScout Sent from my iPad > On Nov 16, 2013, at 10:19 PM, "aerocarjake" wrote: > > > Your fuselage looks great.. Progressing well here. I have been laying out the routes for the rudder cables. I am using pedals instead of the rudder bar so I am positioning a "pivot bar" in the aft fuselage to take the loads when I may push on both pedals at once - such as hard braking. This way the pivot bar takes the stress and the cables back from there to the relatively delicate rudder, rudder hinges, and rudder bar are a steady/lower tension. > > -------- > Jake Schultz - curator, > Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home) > > > > > Read this topic online here: > >
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=413237#413237 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ray Krause <raykrause(at)frontiernet.net>
Subject: Re: FW: Pietenpol S/N 1
Date: Nov 17, 2013
Thanks, Gary. I had not seen this article. It is great. Ray Sent from my iPad > On Nov 17, 2013, at 8:25 AM, "Gary Boothe" wrote: > > Here=99s some nice Sunday morning reading, scanned and forwarded to m e by my hangar neighbor. Most is history that we know of, but interesting th at it comes from the Model T Club. > > Gary Boothe > NX308MB > > > From: Dennis Coulter [mailto:dennis.coulter(at)zetabroadband.com] > Sent: Saturday, November 16, 2013 7:33 PM > To: Boothe, Gary > Subject: Pietenpol S/N 1 > > Gary, I hope you and Pietenpol guys find this as interesting as I did. > > Dennis > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 18, 2013
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Fund Raiser Behind By 25% - Please Contribute Today!
Dear Listers, The percentage of members making a Contribution to support the Lists this year is currently behind last year by at this time by roughly 25%. We got off to a slow start this year with the network DNS issues on the kickoff weekend, so please take this opportunity to show your support for the Matronics Lists and Forums! Please remember that it is *solely* your direct Contributions that keep these Lists and Forums up and running and most importantly - AD FREE! If the members don't want to support the Lists directly, then I might have to add advertisements to offset the costs of running the Lists. But I don't want to have to do that. I really like the non-commercial atmosphere here and I think that a lot of the members appreciate that too. Please take a moment to make a Contribution today in support of the continued ad-free operation of all these Lists: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Or, drop a personal check in the mail to: Matt Dralle / Matronics 581 Jeannie Way Livermore CA 94550 USA I want to send out a word of appreciation to all of the members that have already made their generous Contribution to support the Lists! Thank you! Matt Dralle Email List and Forums Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: It Sounds Too Good To Be True, But...
From: "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Nov 18, 2013
You never know. Saw this Sale of an A65 motor linked on another forum. Somebody may want to call and check on it. http://detroit.craigslist.org/wyn/for/4184434853.html -------- Semper Fi, Terry Hand Athens, GA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=413350#413350 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: fuselage gussets
From: "aviken" <aviken(at)windstream.net>
Date: Nov 18, 2013
This may have been talked to death in the past, but I checked the search function and didn't find my answer. I ordered some long pieces of ply after reading the reprint of the 1929 glider manual instructions. according to what I read the side gussets were 3/32 and the long gusset was also 3/32 thick... Now I read my plans and it shows 1/8 thick. Have I screwed the pooch here? Hope I don't have useless 2' by 8' pieces of expensive plywood. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=413353#413353 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Prop carving
From: "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org>
Date: Nov 18, 2013
Well good morning John, It has been awhile since I have seen your name pop up. If I told you that I will be right over to help you, would you start tinkering with the plane before I got there? Wish I didn't live so far away from you. The 3000 miles gets in the way of any physical help I could offer. I'll bet that if you did go out to the airport and finished it, your knees would instantly feel better, at least enough to go flying. I know it is getting cold there already. Do you have a heater in the hangar? I'll bet you could finish it in time for Brodhead. Wouldn't that be great? Anyway, good to hear from you. Hope you can get through your slump. Happy holidays and ask Santa for a white scarf and goggles for Christmas. That may be all it takes. Happy Landings, -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=413355#413355 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Steel Tube Fuselage Passenger Door Fabrication
From: "aerocarjake" <flight.jake(at)gmail.com>
Date: Nov 18, 2013
Yes, seems like Bernard's design is the simplest and anything else just gets a bit more complex.... I'll post photos of my pivot bar sometime soon. It's a particularly busy week here for me so we'll see when I can get to it..... -------- Jake Schultz - curator, Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=413357#413357 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: How Much Fabric?
From: "dgaldrich" <dgaldrich(at)embarqmail.com>
Date: Nov 18, 2013
Hi Terry You need at least 24 yards of the 72 inch wide stuff to do the wings the easy way. The narrower fabric won't give you enough overlap on the leading and trailing edges if you want to put one sheet on the top and one on the bottom. You could always run the pieces perpendicular to the spars (one loop joined at the trailing edge) and hide the lap joint at a rib with the rib lacing and pinked tape if you had no other choice but the 60 inch wide stuff. The air doesn't care. 45 yards total sounds about right and allows for at least one serious oops. In deference to debris kicked up by tires and prop, you might consider using the heavier weight cloth for the bottom of the fuselage and maybe the horizontal stab/elevator. Since you didn't ask, I recommend the Stewart system and get their DVDs. Makes the job much easier. Dave Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=413359#413359 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Subject: For those not on my Facebook page
Date: Nov 18, 2013
http://youtu.be/wldGpjeVepo There is a King Air that flies skydivers from this airport (runway is 6,000'), and often flies opposite of the traffic as it enables him to get up and back far quicker. I don't have a radio, so I miss out on all his transmissions, though I know he announces all his goings and comings. 35 seconds into this clip, you will see me glance off to my right, as I see him peel off to his left, at about 50', to avoid me. Whew!! Gary Boothe NX308MB ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Prop carving
From: "bdewenter" <anonymouse(at)woh.rr.com>
Date: Nov 18, 2013
Watch out for Dan...He's a four-blader Mary Beth danhelsper(at)aol.com wrote: > John, > > Here is some visual motivation for you my good friend. Time to put-on the Carhartz, get back over to the hangar and fire-up the chainsaw. If you make a mistake, just make the same one on the opposite side.....no worries! Next thing you know its gonna be spring and you can test her out! > > Dan Helsper > Puryear, TN > > > > > -- -------- Bob 'Early Builder' Dewenter Dayton OH Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=413362#413362 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: fuselage gussets
From: "bdewenter" <anonymouse(at)woh.rr.com>
Date: Nov 18, 2013
If you are worried, about 1/32" (and I would not) perhaps make then a tad larger (deeper not wider) or use them as is and add lightness. My .02 -------- Bob 'Early Builder' Dewenter Dayton OH Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=413363#413363 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: complicated mock up
From: "bdewenter" <anonymouse(at)woh.rr.com>
Date: Nov 18, 2013
To keep a little shoulder room consider keeping the rear seat bay a full 24" wide, then allow the fuse to taper AFTER the rear seat. I did and I think it give the girl a real nice look. aviken wrote: > Hi fellows, please don't laugh too hard at my complex mock-up. Just wanted to confirm that I would fit... I do touch a little at the shoulders, but I don't think that will be a game changer . I really want to stay with the plans but what do ya'll think? Well I guess the first thing I need to learn is how to post a picture here , sorry. -------- Bob 'Early Builder' Dewenter Dayton OH Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=413364#413364 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ray Krause <raykrause(at)frontiernet.net>
Subject: Re: Steel Tube Fuselage Passenger Door Fabrication
Date: Nov 18, 2013
Thanks, Jake. Must be nice living at an air museum! Ray Krause Sent from my iPad > On Nov 18, 2013, at 5:44 AM, "aerocarjake" wrote: > > > Yes, seems like Bernard's design is the simplest and anything else just gets a bit more complex.... I'll post photos of my pivot bar sometime soon. It's a particularly busy week here for me so we'll see when I can get to it..... > > -------- > Jake Schultz - curator, > Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home) > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=413357#413357 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Prop carving
From: Amsafetyc <amsafetyc(at)aol.com>
Date: Nov 18, 2013
Scott, Working 7 days s week and trying to work with severe back pain really puts a crimp in ones airplane building schedule. Unfortunately I'm not permitted a heater or anything With open flame according to the airport manager. Makes for colder work periods as much as I would like to work more and hurt less it's been a struggle biting cold doesn't help anything. Oh well! It's been progressively gettin worse since last December. If I could improve the back some is be building again. I got a year left if I concentrate hard on the finish line and 2 1/2 at a typical build pace which I would prefer. Obviously time and cash play s big part of the build process I live in great hope of one day flying my build to Brodhead and taking my place among my friends, whom I've admired their builds . Right now want to build just not sure of what's Be well and fly safe John Sent from my iPhone > On Nov 18, 2013, at 8:39 AM, "AircamperN11MS" wrote: > > > Well good morning John, > > It has been awhile since I have seen your name pop up. If I told you that I will be right over to help you, would you start tinkering with the plane before I got there? > > Wish I didn't live so far away from you. The 3000 miles gets in the way of any physical help I could offer. I'll bet that if you did go out to the airport and finished it, your knees would instantly feel better, at least enough to go flying. > > I know it is getting cold there already. Do you have a heater in the hangar? I'll bet you could finish it in time for Brodhead. Wouldn't that be great? > > Anyway, good to hear from you. Hope you can get through your slump. Happy holidays and ask Santa for a white scarf and goggles for Christmas. That may be all it takes. > > Happy Landings, > > -------- > Scott Liefeld > Flying N11MS since March 1972 > Steel Tube > C-85-12 > Wire Wheels > Brodhead in 1996 > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=413355#413355 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 18, 2013
Subject: Re: Prop carving
From: Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com>
John, I am great at being the "Good Idea Fairy!" Here is some advice from my working on my planes in NW Oklahoma (near the North pole) (Ths advice is free and may not be worth it.) For the heat, Try insulated boots. I used to have a pair of German fleece lined boots that had a styrofoam like insulation in the sole. Perfect for standing guard on concrete in the German winter. (Worthless for walking anywhere) Also Take a look at heated floor mats. They seem to run from $70 to $179. You can move them to where you are working. If I can keep my feet and ears warm that is more than half of the battle. A heat lamp on the parts you are going to work on I don't know the particulars on your back, but I have a lot of old infantryman back experience. I really suggest you see if some physical therapy will help. Build (or buy) you some stools at various heights. Also look at a kneeling chair. Shoes with various lifts work for some people. Don't forget you are the CEO of your body and know what you can do and when you are overdoing it. Blue Skies, Steve D On Mon, Nov 18, 2013 at 10:48 AM, Amsafetyc wrote: > > Scott, > > Working 7 days s week and trying to work with severe back pain really puts > a crimp in ones airplane building schedule. Unfortunately I'm not permitted > a heater or anything > With open flame according to the airport manager. Makes for colder work > periods as much as I would like to work more and hurt less it's been a > struggle biting cold doesn't help anything. Oh well! It's been > progressively gettin worse since last December. If I could improve the back > some is be building again. > > I got a year left if I concentrate hard on the finish line and 2 1/2 at a > typical build pace which I would prefer. Obviously time and cash play s big > part of the build process > > I live in great hope of one day flying my build to Brodhead and taking my > place among my friends, whom I've admired their builds . > > Right now want to build just not sure of what's > > > Be well and fly safe > > John > > Sent from my iPhone > > > On Nov 18, 2013, at 8:39 AM, "AircamperN11MS" > wrote: > > > Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org> > > > > Well good morning John, > > > > It has been awhile since I have seen your name pop up. If I told you > that I will be right over to help you, would you start tinkering with the > plane before I got there? > > > > Wish I didn't live so far away from you. The 3000 miles gets in the way > of any physical help I could offer. I'll bet that if you did go out to the > airport and finished it, your knees would instantly feel better, at least > enough to go flying. > > > > I know it is getting cold there already. Do you have a heater in the > hangar? I'll bet you could finish it in time for Brodhead. Wouldn't that > be great? > > > > Anyway, good to hear from you. Hope you can get through your slump. > Happy holidays and ask Santa for a white scarf and goggles for Christmas. > That may be all it takes. > > > > Happy Landings, > > > > -------- > > Scott Liefeld > > Flying N11MS since March 1972 > > Steel Tube > > C-85-12 > > Wire Wheels > > Brodhead in 1996 > > > > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=413355#413355 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: For those not on my Facebook page
From: "John Francis" <Mrkringles(at)msn.com>
Date: Nov 18, 2013
Oh Gary, that Corvair sounds sooo smooooth! -------- John Francis Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=413370#413370 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: For those not on my Facebook page
From: Jack <jack(at)textors.com>
Date: Nov 18, 2013
Gary great video and flawless landing! Sent from my iPad Jack Textor On Nov 18, 2013, at 9:17 AM, "Gary Boothe" wrote: > http://youtu.be/wldGpjeVepo > > There is a King Air that flies skydivers from this airport (runway is 6,00 0=99), and often flies opposite of the traffic as it enables him to ge t up and back far quicker. I don=99t have a radio, so I miss out on al l his transmissions, though I know he announces all his goings and comings. > > 35 seconds into this clip, you will see me glance off to my right, as I se e him peel off to his left, at about 50=99, to avoid me. Whew!! > > Gary Boothe > NX308MB > > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Prop carving
From: "womenfly2" <Love2Fly.KAP(at)gmail.com>
Date: Nov 18, 2013
Just curious, what engine is the 4-bladed prop for? WF2 -------- Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=413373#413373 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dennis Engelkenjohn" <mushface1(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Prop carving
Date: Nov 18, 2013
A snowmobile suit will keep you warm nearly anywhere, maybe too warm. I bid on two separate ones on ebay years ago and got them both for less than $50 each. Those thick wool socks like they sell at Bass Pro will keep your feet warm too. Capilene underwear goes a long way and is very comfortable. With capilene underwear, fleece outer layer and a snowmobile suit you could stand well below freezing weather and strong winds also. What has been working for me and I say "for me" before anyone jumps in to start flaming me is stretching. I put one foot up on the commode and hold onto the shower door, lean forward while breathing and stretch my hamstring. Then I do the same on the other one. After that I try to bend over and touch my toes. Never been able to touch them yet in the last 60 yrs. Used to have horrible lower back pain from off position bending and lifting things and this is the only thing that works for me. When I feel a kink coming I stretch and then an hour later do it again until it stops. Joining scrounge dawgs and helping work on the group pietenpol project is a tremendous motivator for me along with learning things to do and a lot of not to dos. Dennis -----Original Message----- From: Amsafetyc Sent: Monday, November 18, 2013 10:48 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Prop carving Scott, Working 7 days s week and trying to work with severe back pain really puts a crimp in ones airplane building schedule. Unfortunately I'm not permitted a heater or anything With open flame according to the airport manager. Makes for colder work periods as much as I would like to work more and hurt less it's been a struggle biting cold doesn't help anything. Oh well! It's been progressively gettin worse since last December. If I could improve the back some is be building again. I got a year left if I concentrate hard on the finish line and 2 1/2 at a typical build pace which I would prefer. Obviously time and cash play s big part of the build process I live in great hope of one day flying my build to Brodhead and taking my place among my friends, whom I've admired their builds . Right now want to build just not sure of what's Be well and fly safe John Sent from my iPhone > On Nov 18, 2013, at 8:39 AM, "AircamperN11MS" > wrote: > > > > Well good morning John, > > It has been awhile since I have seen your name pop up. If I told you that > I will be right over to help you, would you start tinkering with the plane > before I got there? > > Wish I didn't live so far away from you. The 3000 miles gets in the way > of any physical help I could offer. I'll bet that if you did go out to > the airport and finished it, your knees would instantly feel better, at > least enough to go flying. > > I know it is getting cold there already. Do you have a heater in the > hangar? I'll bet you could finish it in time for Brodhead. Wouldn't that > be great? > > Anyway, good to hear from you. Hope you can get through your slump. > Happy holidays and ask Santa for a white scarf and goggles for Christmas. > That may be all it takes. > > Happy Landings, > > -------- > Scott Liefeld > Flying N11MS since March 1972 > Steel Tube > C-85-12 > Wire Wheels > Brodhead in 1996 > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=413355#413355 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Steel Tube Fuselage Passenger Door Fabrication
From: "aerocarjake" <flight.jake(at)gmail.com>
Date: Nov 18, 2013
Thanks... It's really just my decor - but I strive for it to look like an air museum. Here are a couple shots....... -------- Jake Schultz - curator, Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=413375#413375 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/nwam_wall_comp_650.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/nwam_spaceflight_display_comp_144.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Subject: For those not on my Facebook page
Date: Nov 18, 2013
Thanks, Jack. I am amazed at the difference with the new tail wheel! Gary Boothe NX308MB From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack Sent: Monday, November 18, 2013 9:38 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: For those not on my Facebook page Gary great video and flawless landing! Sent from my iPad Jack Textor On Nov 18, 2013, at 9:17 AM, "Gary Boothe" wrote: http://youtu.be/wldGpjeVepo There is a King Air that flies skydivers from this airport (runway is 6,000=99), and often flies opposite of the traffic as it enables him to get up and back far quicker. I don=99t have a radio, so I miss out on all his transmissions, though I know he announces all his goings and comings. 35 seconds into this clip, you will see me glance off to my right, as I see him peel off to his left, at about 50=99, to avoid me. Whew!! Gary Boothe NX308MB ========= ctric.com >www.buildersbooks.com uilthelp.com otstore.com matronics.com/contribution ========= >http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List ========= cs.com ========= ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 18, 2013
From: Jim Boyer <boyerjrb(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: For those not on my Facebook page
Hi Gary, I enjoyed seeing the video and wish I were making more progress. Do be care ful around that King Air; thats a lot bigger and faster and I don't want to see it hurt a Piet. Spam can pilots can get complacent about watching for other traffic. Cheers, Jim =C2- PS I am trying to get to good scard joints for the leading edge of my left wing =C2- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Subject: For those not on my Facebook page
Date: Nov 18, 2013
Right, Jim! I think I would end up just like one of the many bugs on his leading edge! Fortunately, he=99s a very good pilot and looks out for the rest of us! Good luck with the scarf joints! Gary Boothe NX308MB From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Boyer Sent: Monday, November 18, 2013 3:08 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: For those not on my Facebook page Hi Gary, I enjoyed seeing the video and wish I were making more progress. Do be careful around that King Air; thats a lot bigger and faster and I don't want to see it hurt a Piet. Spam can pilots can get complacent about watching for other traffic. Cheers, Jim PS I am trying to get to good scard joints for the leading edge of my left wing 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 18, 2013
Subject: Re: For those not on my Facebook page
From: Ken Bickers <bickers.ken(at)gmail.com>
Gary, I concur with Jim. We have a very active skydive operation at my home airport. Those pilots seem to be unable to see anyone unless they are talking on the radio or causing blips on the skydive TCAS, and even then sometimes have troubles seeing other traffic. And they often define their own traffic patterns. I'd suggest getting a radio, at least for the times when you are in the traffic pattern. Cheers, Ken On Mon, Nov 18, 2013 at 4:07 PM, Jim Boyer wrote: > Hi Gary, > I enjoyed seeing the video and wish I were making more progress. Do be > careful around that King Air; thats a lot bigger and faster and I don't > want to see it hurt a Piet. Spam can pilots can get complacent about > watching for other traffic. > Cheers, > Jim > > PS I am trying to get to good scard joints for the leading edge of my left > wing > > > * > > * > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: FAA Part 23 rewrite
From: "bdewenter" <anonymouse(at)woh.rr.com>
Date: Nov 18, 2013
Steve could be an other world alien perhaps, as he is using 'alien' terms such as prop pitch change bearing ...what is this mysterious thing? Should we sacrifice a GN-1? -------- Bob 'Early Builder' Dewenter Dayton OH Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=413395#413395 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Subject: For those not on my Facebook page
Date: Nov 18, 2013
Do doubt about it, Ken!...but I was in a guy's hangar yesterday, and his radio was turned on. I asked what airport he was listening to, because of all the chatter.it was ours!! One guy was even giving others permission to land ahead of him!! Oh, I wish I had been in the pattern at that minute.he'd be screaming is bloody head off at me.and me not hearing a word!!! Gary Boothe NX308MB From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ken Bickers Sent: Monday, November 18, 2013 3:21 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: For those not on my Facebook page Gary, I concur with Jim. We have a very active skydive operation at my home airport. Those pilots seem to be unable to see anyone unless they are talking on the radio or causing blips on the skydive TCAS, and even then sometimes have troubles seeing other traffic. And they often define their own traffic patterns. I'd suggest getting a radio, at least for the times when you are in the traffic pattern. Cheers, Ken On Mon, Nov 18, 2013 at 4:07 PM, Jim Boyer wrote: Hi Gary, I enjoyed seeing the video and wish I were making more progress. Do be careful around that King Air; thats a lot bigger and faster and I don't want to see it hurt a Piet. Spam can pilots can get complacent about watching for other traffic. Cheers, Jim PS I am trying to get to good scard joints for the leading edge of my left wing 3D=========================3 D=================== 3D=========================3 D=================== 3D=========================3 D=================== 3D=========================3 D=================== ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Prop carving
From: danhelsper(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 18, 2013
P & W R-4360. But it may be too much prop for it. We'll see. Dan Helsper Puryear, TN -----Original Message----- From: womenfly2 <Love2Fly.KAP(at)gmail.com> Sent: Mon, Nov 18, 2013 12:55 pm Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Prop carving Just curious, what engine is the 4-bladed prop for? WF2 -------- Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=413373#413373 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ray Krause <raykrause(at)frontiernet.net>
Subject: Re: Steel Tube Fuselage Passenger Door Fabrication
Date: Nov 18, 2013
Way too cool, wish I could visit sometime, where are you located? Ray Sent from my iPad > On Nov 18, 2013, at 11:02 AM, "aerocarjake" wrote: > > > Thanks... It's really just my decor - but I strive for it to look like an air museum. Here are a couple shots....... > > -------- > Jake Schultz - curator, > Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home) > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=413375#413375 > > > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/nwam_wall_comp_650.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/nwam_spaceflight_display_comp_144.jpg > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: How Much Fabric?
From: "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Nov 18, 2013
I have a couple of useless and snide comments about this, and then one personal observation about the fabric "weight". Useless and snide comment to Ken Bickers: do you realize what you get when you multiply 37 yards x 3 ft. to the yard x 6 ft. wide? Are you sure you want to fly that thing? ;o) Useless and snide comment to Jerry regarding certified and non-certified fabrics both coming from the same shipping address: the Chevy Malibu ($20,000) and the Cadillac ELR ($75,000) come from the same plant in Michigan ;o) And a personal observation on fabric weight, not to be argumentative but simply to throw in my (somewhat limited) personal experience: Scout is covered with Poly-Fiber "uncertified light", which I believe is 1.87 oz/sq.yd. I have operated the airplane off of grass, dirt, turf, and of course asphalt and concrete with plenty of gravel and debris to be thrown around. Although the airplane has gotten plenty dirty, oily, and nasty, I have never found any damage to the fabric anywhere on the airplane from FOD or anything else. In fact, it takes a pretty determined effort to punch through it if you're not using a knife or something with a sharp edge. I've found plenty of paint chipping and wearing on the lower landing gear legs, spring struts, tailwheel and spring, but no visible damage to the fabric. If I were to recover the aircraft for whatever reason, I would go with the lightweight fabric again and just patch it if I ever had a cut or tear to repair. -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=413410#413410 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Steel Tube Fuselage Passenger Door Fabrication
From: "aerocarjake" <flight.jake(at)gmail.com>
Date: Nov 18, 2013
Near Seattle... fine Piet-ple always welcome.....! -------- Jake Schultz - curator, Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=413411#413411 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 18, 2013
Subject: Re: How Much Fabric?
From: Ken Bickers <bickers.ken(at)gmail.com>
oh dear, Oscar. I hadn't done the math. Fortunately, I added another 5 yards, which takes the total from the dreaded and no doubt possessed 666 to 756. Though given all of the wastage, who knows, it might actually be in that danger zone. I guess I'll just have to live on the edge and take my chances flying the thing. The real question is why you are doing math calculations on things like this. You clearly need a hobby -- maybe flying or building. On a more serious note, it is interesting what all of this weighs. Were there no wastage, the total weight of the uncertified 1.8 oz fabric would be just under 9 1/2 lbs. Given the large sections that had to be cut off, I'm guessing the fabric itself weighed somewhere in the 8 lb range. Tapes, gussets, thread, and glue would add a few more pounds, perhaps doubling the total weight to somewhere in the range of 16 lbs for the whole airplane. Even if this is off by a few pounds, it is still impressive how light fabric covering is. Cheers, Ken On Mon, Nov 18, 2013 at 9:41 PM, taildrags wrote: > > I have a couple of useless and snide comments about this, and then one > personal observation about the fabric "weight". Useless and snide comment > to Ken Bickers: do you realize what you get when you multiply 37 yards x 3 > ft. to the yard x 6 ft. wide? Are you sure you want to fly that thing? ;o) > > Useless and snide comment to Jerry regarding certified and non-certified > fabrics both coming from the same shipping address: the Chevy Malibu > ($20,000) and the Cadillac ELR ($75,000) come from the same plant in > Michigan ;o) > > And a personal observation on fabric weight, not to be argumentative but > simply to throw in my (somewhat limited) personal experience: Scout is > covered with Poly-Fiber "uncertified light", which I believe is 1.87 > oz/sq.yd. I have operated the airplane off of grass, dirt, turf, and of > course asphalt and concrete with plenty of gravel and debris to be thrown > around. Although the airplane has gotten plenty dirty, oily, and nasty, I > have never found any damage to the fabric anywhere on the airplane from FOD > or anything else. In fact, it takes a pretty determined effort to punch > through it if you're not using a knife or something with a sharp edge. > I've found plenty of paint chipping and wearing on the lower landing gear > legs, spring struts, tailwheel and spring, but no visible damage to the > fabric. If I were to recover the aircraft for whatever reason, I would go > with the lightweight fabric again and just patch it if I ever had a cut or > tear to repair. > > -------- > Oscar Zuniga > Medford, OR > Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" > A75 power > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=413410#413410 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ray Krause <raykrause(at)frontiernet.net>
Subject: Re: Steel Tube Fuselage Passenger Door Fabrication
Date: Nov 18, 2013
I have a grand daughter at the University of Portland, not too far away, we will be visiting her sometime. Ray Sent from my iPad > On Nov 18, 2013, at 8:58 PM, "aerocarjake" wrote: > > > Near Seattle... fine Piet-ple always welcome.....! > > -------- > Jake Schultz - curator, > Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home) > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=413411#413411 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Prop carving
From: "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org>
Date: Nov 19, 2013
John, I hope you get to feeling better. With pain like that I understand why you don't feel like doing anything. Work on healing up and then I think you will feel like working on it again. Back pain is the worst. Keep watching the list and stay in touch with all of us for inspiration. Good luck, -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=413417#413417 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Corvair College 28, 28 Feb - 2 Mar 2014, San Marcos, TX
From: "kevinpurtee" <kevin.purtee(at)us.army.mil>
Date: Nov 19, 2013
I've posted important information on lodging. Please check the Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/Corvair-College-28/320305497999282 -------- Kevin "Axel" Purtee Rebuilding NX899KP Austin/San Marcos, TX Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=413424#413424 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Started Construction - Spar Length Question
From: Grantz5906 <grantz5906(at)aol.com>
Date: Nov 19, 2013
I have?finally started construction of my Pietenpol after a year of lurking on the list and finishing other projects.? I am looking forward to the pro ject and participating in the list discussions.? I have already gained a vo lume of useful information from this group.? Thanks!! ? I purchased several spruce planks from another Piet builder who indicated i t was enough wood to build a complete aircraft.? As luck would have it, upo n measuring the spar pieces, I discovered that they were only 12'- 6" long vice the required 13'-2.5" long.? Would it be problematic to i ncrease the width of the center section (I had planned on a 36" center sect ion - per Bill Rewey) an additional 18" to achieve the correct total spar s pan of 29'-5"?? ?OR? Would it be a great loss to keep the center section at 36" and the outer panel spars at 12'-6" (for a total spar span of 28') and not worry about the loss of 1'-5" of span? ? Thanks for the assistance. ? Grant Ziebell Savannah, TN ? ? ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Started Construction - Spar Length Question
From: "bdewenter" <anonymouse(at)woh.rr.com>
Date: Nov 19, 2013
Welcome to the forum Grant! -------- Bob 'Early Builder' Dewenter Dayton OH Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=413441#413441 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Mike Weaver - slow day
Date: Nov 19, 2013
Helping Mike Weaver hoist his fuselage to the ceiling so he can start on wings. Gary Boothe NX308MB ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Prop carving
From: Amsafetyc <amsafetyc(at)aol.com>
Date: Nov 19, 2013
Thanks Scott it's been about year and really in need of relief. I'm optimistic and just wanted to let you and everyone know I'm still alive. And when I can get off my ass and return to building I plan on doing that because I ain't sellin my Piet as previously suggested by another list member. Best to all John Sent from my iPhone > On Nov 19, 2013, at 9:28 AM, "AircamperN11MS" wrote: > > > John, > > I hope you get to feeling better. With pain like that I understand why you don't feel like doing anything. Work on healing up and then I think you will feel like working on it again. Back pain is the worst. > > Keep watching the list and stay in touch with all of us for inspiration. > > Good luck, > > -------- > Scott Liefeld > Flying N11MS since March 1972 > Steel Tube > C-85-12 > Wire Wheels > Brodhead in 1996 > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=413417#413417 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Mike Weaver - slow day
From: "curtdm(at)gmail.com" <curtdm(at)gmail.com>
Date: Nov 19, 2013
I'm getting a lot more done with the fuselage overhead. $9 Harbor Freight bicycle lift good for 100lbs. Current stage only weighs 50lbs. Only takes about 30 seconds for one person to move it out of the way for the wife's car. I think I'd rather have a couple of nearby builders to help. -------- Curt Merdan Flower Mound, TX Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=413451#413451 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/image_642.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 19, 2013
From: Jim Boyer <boyerjrb(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Mike Weaver - slow day
Hi Curt, Is the bicycle lift your'e talking about the pulley system you used to lift the fuselage up? thanks, Jim B =C2- ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Started Construction - Spar Length Question
From: "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Nov 19, 2013
Wow, good question for a first post! Right off the top of my head, I'd not want to lose a foot and a half of wing. BUT, either case you mention involves making the wing panels a bit shorter. I'm not sure any of this is gonna matter off the top of my head, but something to consider with a wing bay deletion, or change in rib spacing, is whether you're gonna have problems with drag wire interference with the ribs? All your struts might wind up being a different length, and jury struts, etc (this isn't a huge deal). With a center section increase, are you gonna leave the vert struts in the same place, or angle them outwards? If they angle out, they're quite a bit more complicated to make. You can scarf a section onto what you have to make them longer. Proper scarfing on a spar will require plywood doublers, and then the inability to rout as much, with a corresponding increase in some weight, but it can be done. Also, not really supposed to have fittings through a scarf, so you'll have to plan on where you scarf. I'm not recommending you do or don't, or which way you go... just hope to have brought up some things you may not have considered. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=413453#413453 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Mike Weaver - slow day
From: "curtdm(at)gmail.com" <curtdm(at)gmail.com>
Date: Nov 19, 2013
Jim, Yes the one I thought was good for 100 pounds only good for 44 pounds. It's doing good with 50 pound but I'm starting to rethink my setup. -------- Curt Merdan Flower Mound, TX Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=413454#413454 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Started Construction - Spar Length Question
Date: Nov 19, 2013
Grant, Look in the SEARCH Archives, and you will see that a 4' center section with 12' spars was used by Steve Eldridge. I doubt if this affects strut length or cabanes, necessarily. Look up Steve's email and contact him directly. Gary Boothe NX308MB From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Grantz5906 Sent: Tuesday, November 19, 2013 7:48 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Started Construction - Spar Length Question I have finally started construction of my Pietenpol after a year of lurking on the list and finishing other projects. I am looking forward to the project and participating in the list discussions. I have already gained a volume of useful information from this group. Thanks!! I purchased several spruce planks from another Piet builder who indicated it was enough wood to build a complete aircraft. As luck would have it, upon measuring the spar pieces, I discovered that they were only 12'- 6" long vice the required 13'-2.5" long. Would it be problematic to increase the width of the center section (I had planned on a 36" center section - per Bill Rewey) an additional 18" to achieve the correct total spar span of 29'-5"? OR Would it be a great loss to keep the center section at 36" and the outer panel spars at 12'-6" (for a total spar span of 28') and not worry about the loss of 1'-5" of span? Thanks for the assistance. Grant Ziebell Savannah, TN ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Started Construction - Spar Length Question
From: "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca>
Date: Nov 19, 2013
Grant, Here's a link to the thread that Gary was referring to: http://www.matronics.com/searching/getmsg_script.cgi?INDEX=45551305?KEYS=eldredge_&_section?LISTNAME=Pietenpol?HITNUMBER=17?SERIAL=15103830788?SHOWBUTTONS=YES Steve writes that his center section was 4 ft wide, and his outer spars 12'-6" (just like yours). as Tools mentioned, you may need to adjust rib locations slightly to avoid drag/anti-drag wire interference, and you'll probably have to do a little more thinking, but at least you will get to use the spars that you already have. I don't recommend splaying your cabanes - that will complicate your life unnecessarily. Bill C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=413459#413459 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Started Construction - Spar Length Question
From: "bdewenter" <anonymouse(at)woh.rr.com>
Date: Nov 19, 2013
Grant, and others Don't over worry about the drag - anti drag wires interfering with "plans" rib spacing (per say). I am considering slightly expanding wing span and using 3 sets of cross brace wires per wing - more X than stock plans. Just don't glue or nail anything until you have dry fitted the ribs to the spars relative to the X wires - and that goes for anyone regardless of wing span or how many brace wires are used... -------- Bob 'Early Builder' Dewenter Dayton OH Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=413460#413460 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Started Construction - Spar Length Question
From: "GrantZ" <grantz5906(at)aol.com>
Date: Nov 19, 2013
Great info, as always from this group. Thanks! Grant Ziebell Savannah, TN [quote="gboothe"]Grant, Look in the SEARCH Archives, and you will see that a 4 center section with 12 spars was used by Steve Eldridge. I doubt if this affects strut length or cabanes, necessarily. Look up Steves email and contact him directly. Gary Boothe NX308MB From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Grantz5906 Sent: Tuesday, November 19, 2013 7:48 AM Subject: Started Construction - Spar Length Question I have finally started construction of my Pietenpol after a year of lurking on the list and finishing other projects. I am looking forward to the project and participating in the list discussions. I have already gained a volume of useful information from this group. Thanks!! I purchased several spruce planks from another Piet builder who indicated it was enough wood to build a complete aircraft. As luck would have it, upon measuring the spar pieces, I discovered that they were only 12'- 6" long vice the required 13'-2.5" long. Would it be problematic to increase the width of the center section (I had planned on a 36" center section - per Bill Rewey) an additional 18" to achieve the correct total spar span of 29'-5"? OR Would it be a great loss to keep the center section at 36" and the outer panel spars at 12'-6" (for a total spar span of 28') and not worry about the loss of 1'-5" of span? Thanks for the assistance. Grant Ziebell Savannah, TN > 0 > 1 > 2 > 3 > 4 > 5 > 6 > 7 > 8 > 9 > 0 > 1 > 2 > 3 > 4 > 5 > 6 > 7 > 8 > [b] Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=413462#413462 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 19, 2013
Subject: Re: Started Construction - Spar Length Question
From: Marcus Zechini <marcus.zechini(at)gmail.com>
My GN-1 has clipped Piper Cub wings. Flies great!..just shorten...;-) On Nov 19, 2013 7:31 PM, "GrantZ" wrote: > > Great info, as always from this group. > > Thanks! > > Grant Ziebell > Savannah, TN > > [quote="gboothe"]Grant, > > Look in the SEARCH Archives, and you will see that a 4=99 center se ction > with 12=99 spars was used by Steve Eldridge. I doubt if this affect s strut > length or cabanes, necessarily. Look up Steve=99s email and contact him > directly. > > Gary Boothe > NX308MB > > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto: > owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Grantz5906 > Sent: Tuesday, November 19, 2013 7:48 AM > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Started Construction - Spar Length Question > > I have finally started construction of my Pietenpol after a year of > lurking on the list and finishing other projects. I am looking forward t o > the project and participating in the list discussions. I have already > gained a volume of useful information from this group. Thanks!! > > =EF=BD > > I purchased several spruce planks from another Piet builder who indicated > it was enough wood to build a complete aircraft. As luck would have it, > upon measuring the spar pieces, I discovered that they were only > > 12'- 6" long vice the required 13'-2.5" long. Would it be problematic to > increase the width of the center section (I had planned on a 36" center > section - per Bill Rewey) an additional 18" to achieve the correct total > spar span of 29'-5"? OR Would it be a great loss to keep the center > section at 36" and the outer panel spars at 12'-6" (for a total spar span > of 28') and not worry about the loss of 1'-5" of span? > > =EF=BD > > Thanks for the assistance. > > =EF=BD > > Grant Ziebell > > Savannah, TN > > =EF=BD > > =EF=BD > > > > > 0 > > > 1 > > > 2 > > > 3 > > > 4 > > > 5 > > > 6 > > > 7 > > > 8 > > > 9 > > > 0 > > > 1 > > > 2 > > > 3 > > > 4 > > > 5 > > > 6 > > > 7 > > > 8 > > > [b] > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=413462#413462 > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Clif Dawson" <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Started Construction - Spar Length Question
Date: Nov 19, 2013
You mean like this? The original plans as per the Flying & Glider manual puts the span at 28 ft two in. So with a 36" center section plus your 12"6" plus 1" each side for the tip bows you'd be right there. If you want more span then go 48" but you might want to splay your cabanes some. Six inches past the cabanes is fine but a foot might be a bit much. Go to this page and scrolldown to the diagram and explanation just below the lettering template. This will give you the info necessary to figure out the forces on the wing struts, inner and outer. What you'll see is that the outer struts take the lions share of the load. http://www.clifdawson.ca/Homepage4-10-06/Tools_and_Tips.html As luck would have it, upon measuring the spar pieces, I discovered that they were only 12'- 6" long vice the required 13'-2.5" long. Would it be problematic to increase the width of the center section (I had planned on a 36" center section - per Bill Rewey) an additional 18" to achieve the correct total spar span of 29'-5"? OR Would it be a great loss to keep the center section at 36" and the outer panel spars at 12'-6" (for a total spar span of 28') and not worry about the loss of 1'-5" of span? Thanks for the assistance. Grant Ziebell Savannah, TN ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Mike Weaver - slow day
From: "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Nov 19, 2013
Curt- be careful what you wish for... you might get it. When you say you would prefer to have a couple of nearby builder friends to help you with the fuselage rather than to have a self-operated hoist system, I just want you to recognize that the speed of forward building progress is inversely proportional to the number of visitors you have in your hangar. If you could only get them to come help you with an awkward task and then just shoo away, it would be great ;o) I must admit that I had two of the best, most helpful, courteous, and considerate such hangar friends when I was in San Antonio. [UNCLASSIFIED] Steve Dortch and John Kuhfahl were those friends. Always available and willing to lend a hand, always polite about letting me get on with whatever I was working on at the time. Since things are a mite slow, I'll also take this opportunity to recognize one of my brother's granddaughters, Emma Green. Emma is just turning 11 years old, but she was only 8 when she got her first airplane ride. In my Piet, of course. She loves airplanes, loves flying, and really played the part the day we went flying. She wore a flight helmet and goggles, and we communicated via a set of old WWII carbon mics and headphones, shouting back and forth into the old black mics, "HOW ARE YOU DOING; OVER"... "I LOVE IT; OVER"... "DO YOU WANT TO GO AROUND AGAIN; OVER"... "YES, PLEASE; OVER"... and like that. What fun. -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=413469#413469 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 20, 2013
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Value of the List...
If you look forward to checking your List email everyday (and a lot of you have written to say that you do!), then you're probably getting at least $20 or $30 worth of Entertainment from the Lists each year. You'd pay twice that for a subscription to some magazine or even a dinner out. Isn't the List worth at least that much to you? Wouldn't it be great if you could pay that amount and get a well-managed media source free of advertising, SPAM, and viruses? Come to think of it, you do... :-) Won't you please take a minute to make your Contribution today and support these Lists? http://www.matronics.com/contribution Or, drop a personal check in the mail to: Matt Dralle / Matronics 581 Jeannie Way Livermore CA 94550 USA I want to say THANK YOU to everyone that has made a Contribution thus far during this year's List Fund Raiser!! These Lists are made possible exclusively through YOUR generosity!! Thank you for your support! Matt Dralle Email List Admin. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Mike Weaver - slow day
From: danhelsper(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 20, 2013
This stuff reminds me of when I was recovering my Champ back in 1976. Had t he wing roped to the ceiling....and one side gave way. Wingtip came down wi th a crash and cracked the spar............AARRRRG! Dan Helsper Puryear, TN -----Original Message----- From: curtdm(at)gmail.com <curtdm(at)gmail.com> Sent: Tue, Nov 19, 2013 3:48 pm Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Mike Weaver - slow day om> I'm getting a lot more done with the fuselage overhead. $9 Harbor Freight bicycle lift good for 100lbs. Current stage only weighs 50lbs. Only takes about 30 seconds for one person to move it out of the way for th e wife's car. I think I'd rather have a couple of nearby builders to help. -------- Curt Merdan Flower Mound, TX Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=413451#413451 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/image_642.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 20, 2013
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Started Construction - Spar Length Question
Grant, welcome aboard. Not knowing your tool availability, location to local usable aircraft lumber, finances, skill... another couple alternatives would be to 1) buy new longer spars and cut up the existing ones for various other plane parts or 2) buy bulk wood, cut your own longer spars and use the existing ones for various other plane parts. I had purchased wing spars with one of the four rather suspect, so I purchased another. I cut up the "bad" spar into various other parts...I believe mostly fuselage cross members. If God is your co-pilot...switch seats. Michael Perez Pietenpol HINT Videos Karetaker Aero www.karetakeraero.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack" <jack(at)textors.com>
Subject: Re: Mike Weaver - slow day
Date: Nov 20, 2013
Curt I have two of these for our bikes, why didn't I think of that! Jack Textor West Des Moines, IA -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of curtdm(at)gmail.com Sent: Tuesday, November 19, 2013 3:48 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Mike Weaver - slow day I'm getting a lot more done with the fuselage overhead. $9 Harbor Freight bicycle lift good for 100lbs. Current stage only weighs 50lbs. Only takes about 30 seconds for one person to move it out of the way for the wife's car. I think I'd rather have a couple of nearby builders to help. -------- Curt Merdan Flower Mound, TX Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=413451#413451 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/image_642.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Prop carving
From: "womenfly2" <Love2Fly.KAP(at)gmail.com>
Date: Nov 20, 2013
danhelsper(at)aol.com wrote: > P & W R-4360. But it may be too much prop for it. We'll see. > > Dan Helsper > Puryear, TN > -- .... really. [Rolling Eyes] -------- Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=413553#413553 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Started Construction - Spar Length Question
From: airlion2(at)gmail.com
Date: Nov 20, 2013
Bob, the. Big Piet builders used 3 sets per wing. Gardiner Sent from my iPad > On Nov 19, 2013, at 6:44 PM, "bdewenter" wrote: > > > Grant, and others > > Don't over worry about the drag - anti drag wires interfering with "plans" rib spacing (per say). I am considering slightly expanding wing span and using 3 sets of cross brace wires per wing - more X than stock plans. Just don't glue or nail anything until you have dry fitted the ribs to the spars relative to the X wires - and that goes for anyone regardless of wing span or how many brace wires are used... > > -------- > Bob 'Early Builder' Dewenter > Dayton OH > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=413460#413460 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: welder
From: "womenfly2" <Love2Fly.KAP(at)gmail.com>
Date: Nov 20, 2013
Buy a TIG welder or a set of gas torches. Do not even think of this product. WF2 -------- Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=413558#413558 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Mike Weaver - slow day
From: "curtdm(at)gmail.com" <curtdm(at)gmail.com>
Date: Nov 20, 2013
Oscar, I totally agree with your formula on the relationship between work done and visitors. But it's been a long time since I've had a visitor stop by and even ask what I'm building in my garage. I think a lot of neighbors gave up on me because I wasn't making much visible progress. Things have changed. New insulated hanger(garage) door for the hot summers. Hoist for fuselage so I have more floor area. Added more shelving for storage. Wife got a job as a Stewardess at AA. Finally got my drill press to work better. Got past my fear of cutting, gluing, welding a piece wrong. If anyone is coming through Dallas, y'all are welcome. I'll even come pick you up from your hotel/airport like so many on this list have done with me. -------- Curt Merdan Flower Mound, TX Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=413559#413559 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Mike Weaver - slow day
Date: Nov 20, 2013
As Curt will testify, I give visitors the worst jobs (ie: safety wiring the oil pan, full rpm runups). That tests their resolve to visit and weeds out the useless... Gary Boothe NX308MB -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of curtdm(at)gmail.com Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2013 6:18 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Mike Weaver - slow day --> Oscar, I totally agree with your formula on the relationship between work done and visitors. But it's been a long time since I've had a visitor stop by and even ask what I'm building in my garage. I think a lot of neighbors gave up on me because I wasn't making much visible progress. Things have changed. New insulated hanger(garage) door for the hot summers. Hoist for fuselage so I have more floor area. Added more shelving for storage. Wife got a job as a Stewardess at AA. Finally got my drill press to work better. Got past my fear of cutting, gluing, welding a piece wrong. If anyone is coming through Dallas, y'all are welcome. I'll even come pick you up from your hotel/airport like so many on this list have done with me. -------- Curt Merdan Flower Mound, TX Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=413559#413559 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 20, 2013
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Mike Weaver - slow day
I had the privilege of having Curt stop over to check out my plane in progress about a year or so ago. A real gentleman and I am glad to have met him. I say this because I am of the type that likes to work alone and prefer to do so. I also am the type to not say much about what I am working on because I don't want to come across as bragging or showing off. Although Curt and I did not work on anything during his short visit, it was very satisfying to talk with someone, outside of immediate family and friends, who is a "plane guy" and also a builder/pilot. I don't think my neighbors even know that I am building a plane. We all get along great, but we all mind our own business as well. Again, since I tend to be a private person and really don't talk much about what I am up to, I don't expect them to know what is going on in my shop. (that will all change if I decide to do my initial engine run in the driveway.) As curt said, anyone in the area is free to stop over my pace to chat...just don't expect to work on anything... If God is your co-pilot...switch seats. Michael Perez Pietenpol HINT Videos Karetaker Aero www.karetakeraero.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: steel tube builder directory
From: "nightmare" <pauldonahuepilot(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Nov 20, 2013
I thought it might be useful to start a directory here of fellow steel tube Piet builders/owners so that we may ask eachother questions directly if needed. There is less info and folks available to ask those numerous stupid questions to. Not to mention those contemplating steel over wood. Im learning as im going, but feel free to ask away. Paul Donahue. Fuselage mostly completed , welding nut tabs now. pauldonahuepilotatyahoodotcom Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=413566#413566 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: steel tube builder directory
From: "aerocarjake" <flight.jake(at)gmail.com>
Date: Nov 20, 2013
building the steel-tube version.... (full disclosure: hiring out the welding) -------- Jake Schultz - curator, Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=413567#413567 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: steel tube builder directory
From: "curtdm(at)gmail.com" <curtdm(at)gmail.com>
Date: Nov 20, 2013
Paul, Forward your information to Jack Textor and he'll add you to the Piet Directory. You can sort the directory by city, state, fuse type, engine type, occupation. There is a lot of expertise in different fields in this group from beer drinking to building. Some are great at both. I'll be giving you a shout the next time I layover in PBI. Hope to see your project! -------- Curt Merdan Flower Mound, TX Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=413568#413568 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 20, 2013
Subject: Re: steel tube builder directory
From: Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com>
Paul, I am not building a steel tube. But I enjoy reading about your projects, I don't feel that your discussions are a distraction for this list. Indeed didn't Mr. P. build a steel tube Piet? Blue Skies, Steve D On Wed, Nov 20, 2013 at 9:08 AM, nightmare wrote: > pauldonahuepilot(at)yahoo.com> > > I thought it might be useful to start a directory here of fellow steel > tube Piet builders/owners so that we may ask eachother questions directly > if needed. There is less info and folks available to ask those numerous > stupid questions to. Not to mention those contemplating steel over wood. > Im learning as im going, but feel free to ask away. > > Paul Donahue. Fuselage mostly completed , welding nut tabs now. > pauldonahuepilotatyahoodotcom > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=413566#413566 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 20, 2013
From: Jim Boyer <boyerjrb(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Mike Weaver - slow day
Thanks Curt, it looked like it was a pretty nice setup; did wonder about a 100 lb bicycle though since my 18 gear job was only 7.5 lbs. Thanks, Jim B. =C2- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <jack(at)bedfordlandings.com>
Subject: Started Construction - Spar Length Question
Date: Nov 20, 2013
Hi Grant, Welcome to the world of Pietenpol building! I wouldn't recommend building a clipped-wing Pietenpol. It needs more wing area if anything, rather than less. As for increasing the width of the center section, that can be done (I made mine 36" wide to accommodate more fuel) but be aware that such a change tends to ripple through the entire project, and you are entering the realm of aircraft designer rather than just aircraft builder. My advice would be to bite the bullet and order the proper sized spar material. Savannah is close enough to Wicks Aircraft Supply that you could drive there to pick up the wood to avoid shipping charges. Good luck! Jack Phillips NX899JP Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Grantz5906 Sent: Tuesday, November 19, 2013 10:48 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Started Construction - Spar Length Question I have finally started construction of my Pietenpol after a year of lurking on the list and finishing other projects. I am looking forward to the project and participating in the list discussions. I have already gained a volume of useful information from this group. Thanks!! I purchased several spruce planks from another Piet builder who indicated it was enough wood to build a complete aircraft. As luck would have it, upon measuring the spar pieces, I discovered that they were only 12'- 6" long vice the required 13'-2.5" long. Would it be problematic to increase the width of the center section (I had planned on a 36" center section - per Bill Rewey) an additional 18" to achieve the correct total spar span of 29'-5"? OR Would it be a great loss to keep the center section at 36" and the outer panel spars at 12'-6" (for a total spar span of 28') and not worry about the loss of 1'-5" of span? Thanks for the assistance. Grant Ziebell Savannah, TN ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Started Construction - Spar Length Question
From: "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org>
Date: Nov 20, 2013
Welcome aboard, I like the idea of scarfing them. It is the least expensive way to do it. Just make sure the the scarf joints are at the wing tips. This way you only need to purchase 8 feet of spar material or perhaps you already have enough with the supply you purchased? Oh, I only have a 27 foot wing span and wish it where 29 feet per plans. Happy building, -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=413586#413586 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 20, 2013
Subject: Re: Started Construction - Spar Length Question
From: Marcus Zechini <marcus.zechini(at)gmail.com>
My GN-1 has clipped Piper Cub wings...ailerons nearly whole span. Just another choice..... -Zeke NX431LA C-85-12 On Wed, Nov 20, 2013 at 1:26 PM, AircamperN11MS wrote: > Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org> > > Welcome aboard, > > I like the idea of scarfing them. It is the least expensive way to do it. > Just make sure the the scarf joints are at the wing tips. This way you > only need to purchase 8 feet of spar material or perhaps you already have > enough with the supply you purchased? > > Oh, I only have a 27 foot wing span and wish it where 29 feet per plans. > > Happy building, > > -------- > Scott Liefeld > Flying N11MS since March 1972 > Steel Tube > C-85-12 > Wire Wheels > Brodhead in 1996 > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=413586#413586 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <bkemike(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Mike Weaver - slow day
Date: Nov 20, 2013
Jim, I sure hope you don=99t do your Weight and Balance with that scale. My velodrome-only bike, with no gears at all, nor brakes neither, weighs 17 LB. Mike Hardaway From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Boyer Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2013 9:27 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Mike Weaver - slow day Thanks Curt, it looked like it was a pretty nice setup; did wonder about a 100 lb bicycle though since my 18 gear job was only 7.5 lbs. Thanks, Jim B. 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 20, 2013
From: Jim Boyer <boyerjrb(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Mike Weaver - slow day
Hi Mike, I probably dropped an order of magnitude. I know it wasn't over 20 pounds t hough; but then again I sold it in 1992? Maybe I could lift it so well cause I was 21 years younger? Use to ride eve ry day to work and=C2- back all year around. That was before knee joint r eplacement, etc. Cheers, Jim B. =C2- =C2- ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: steel tube builder directory
From: "biplan53" <biplan53(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Nov 20, 2013
I am building a steel tube Piet. I know what you mean about looking for pictures of steel tube planes. It seems that Jake has put more pictures out than most builders have. I am trying to build build a mount for an AC fiberglass seat. -------- Building steel fuselage aircamper. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=413633#413633 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 21, 2013
Subject: Re: Corvair College 28, 28 Feb - 2 Mar 2014, San Marcos,
TX
From: Ken Bickers <bickers.ken(at)gmail.com>
Kevin, I'm planning my spring around being in San Marcos for CC#28. I haven't been able to attend one of these before. At only a thousand miles, your's is the closest to me, so far. I'm wondering about the logistics of trying to bring my motor. It is already assembled (Roy's Garage did the bottom end; a local engine shop did the heads), with virtually all of WW's components. I am hoping to be ready for the first run early in the new year, but could wait until the college. I guess what I'm wondering is whether I should come and watch and learn or drop the engine off the front of the fuselage and crate it for transportation to Texas. And if I were to bring it, I'd also be curious what pieces to bring with me (e.g., intake and carb, exhaust system, baffling, etc.). Any insights/suggestions would be appreciated. Cheers, Ken On Tue, Nov 19, 2013 at 8:43 AM, kevinpurtee wrote: > kevin.purtee(at)us.army.mil> > > I've posted important information on lodging. Please check the Facebook > page: > > https://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/Corvair-College-28/320305497999282 > > -------- > Kevin "Axel" Purtee > Rebuilding NX899KP > Austin/San Marcos, TX > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=413424#413424 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 21, 2013
From: Glen Schweizer <glenschweizer(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: steel tube builder directory
Where does a person find plans for a steel fuse? ------------------------------ > >I am building a steel tube Piet. I know what you mean about looking for pictures of steel tube planes. It seems that Jake has put more pictures out than most builders have. I am trying to build build a mount for an AC fiberglass seat. > >-------- >Building steel fuselage aircamper. > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=413633#413633 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: steel tube builder directory
From: "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca>
Date: Nov 21, 2013
Glen, Plans for both the wood fuselage and the steel tube fuselage are included in the plan set sold by the Pietenpol family. http://community.pressenter.net/~apietenp/BHPietenpolAndSonsAirCamperAircraftPurchasePlans.html However, the details are a bit sparse for the steel tube version. The reprints of the 1932 Flying and Glider Manual provide some useful additional information. Bill C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=413666#413666 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 21, 2013
From: jorge lizarraga <flightwood(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: steel tube builder directory
-hello Glen I haved set of-blueprint original- from piet,if you like to haved sed my your adress, these is from fucelaje only jope that helpyou jorge from hanford=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AOn Thursday, November 21, 2013 1:51 PM, Bi ll Church wrote:=0A =0A--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Bill Church" =0A=0AGlen,=0A=0APlans fo r both the wood fuselage and the steel tube fuselage are included in the pl an set sold by the Pietenpol family.=0Ahttp://community.pressenter.net/~api etenp/BHPietenpolAndSonsAirCamperAircraftPurchasePlans.html=0AHowever, the details are a bit sparse for the steel tube version.- The reprints of the 1932 Flying and Glider Manual provide some useful additional information. =0ABill C.=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.ma ====== ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: steel tube builder directory
From: "Pietflyer1977" <rob(at)stoinoff.com>
Date: Nov 21, 2013
I would like to be included on the list and have others contact info. I am planning on building a steel tube fuselage. Have tubing already and plan to start on it in a couple months. Real close to finishing my wings. Rob Rob Stoinoff Stoinoff's Restorations 56 Progress Drive Batesville, IN 47006 812-932-9000 www.stoinoff.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=413674#413674 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Corvair College 28, 28 Feb - 2 Mar 2014, San Marcos,
TX
From: "bdewenter" <anonymouse(at)woh.rr.com>
Date: Nov 21, 2013
Ken, You might be putting Kevin into a tough spot asking if you should crate up your engine for a 1,000 mile trip. It really depends on how experienced an engine builder you are, and what you might need (tools, parts, experience, knowledge) to make sure your first engine run is a success. Based on my experiences from attending 5 colleges now, I can offer you this: If you are NOT a gear head - If you have an issue during your first engine run, William is there to help - he is very smart! - William brings the setup to pre-oil your engine and to visually ensure oil is flowing from all the rocker assemblies - William will ensure you have set your initial timing. If you did it right (or admit you are not sure) he will show you how to set it / check it at WOT/full advance. If you ARE a gear head - If you find an issue at the last minute William has the parts and tools to overcome many common simple first start issues You will never regret the fellowship. Along with several others, I continue to attend the colleges in Barnwell because of the people. . As to what to bring, or not, William has his standard intake system (intake pipes and carb). If you have a non "WW" standard intake it may be difficult to hookup to his test stand. He provides an exhaust system, battery, fuel, baffle - everything most of us do NOT have when we want to run our engines for the first time. It is actually best to use his test stand components as it speeds up the engine test stand usage. I hope this helps. Feel free to opine rdewenter(at)woh.rr.com -------- Bob 'Early Builder' Dewenter Dayton OH Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=413678#413678 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: steel tube builder directory
From: "Pietflyer1977" <rob(at)stoinoff.com>
Date: Nov 21, 2013
Thanks Paul. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=413685#413685 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 22, 2013
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Please Make A Contribution Today...
Dear Listers, A quick reminder that November is the annual List Fund Raiser and the List of Contributors is quickly approching. The Matronics Lists are 100% member supported and all of the operational costs are provided for by your Contributions during this time of the year. Your personal Contribution makes a big difference and keeps all of the Matronics Email Lists and Forums completely ad-free. Please make your Contribution today to keep these services up and running! http://www.matronics.com/contribution or by dropping a personal check in the mail to: Matt Dralle / Matronics 581 Jeannie Way Livermore CA 94550 Thank you in advance! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List and Forum Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: steel tube builder directory
From: "proplock" <proplock(at)federatedwildblue.com>
Date: Nov 22, 2013
Add me to the steel tube list... just have the tubing at the moment, plan on using OA welding, working on a shop also. Regards. -------- A remarkable lad , capable of many things Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=413780#413780 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: steel tube builder directory
From: "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Nov 22, 2013
-Steel Tube Fuselage -Built to plans, with the exception of adding a door to the front cockpit. -Split Gear, with spoked wheels most likely Full disclosure - I did not weld the fuselage. I purchased it already built. I think the interest in the steel tube fuselage is great, and I hope to see several at Brodhead in the next few years. -------- Semper Fi, Terry Hand Athens, GA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=413784#413784 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Friday's mystery Piet
From: "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Nov 22, 2013
Going through some pictures that I have on my computer, I came across one that I can't identify and the tail numbers aren't discernible. Does anyone know who this is and where the airplane is based? -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=413812#413812 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_2149_340_189.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Friday's mystery Piet
From: Robert Bush <rbush96589(at)aol.com>
Date: Nov 22, 2013
Oscar that is Vi Kapler from Wisconsin Sent from my iPhone On Nov 22, 2013, at 3:38 PM, "taildrags" wrote: > > Going through some pictures that I have on my computer, I came across one that I can't identify and the tail numbers aren't discernible. Does anyone know who this is and where the airplane is based? > > -------- > Oscar Zuniga > Medford, OR > Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" > A75 power > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=413812#413812 > > > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_2149_340_189.jpg > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 22, 2013
From: "prhoads61(at)frontiernet.net" <prhoads61(at)frontiernet.net>
Subject: Re: Friday's mystery Piet
Vi Kapler's Piet based-East-of Rochester,MN. I took that picture when I bought his other Piet N12939 4 years ago.=0APerry Rhoads=0AN12939=0A =0A =0A________________________________=0A From: taildrags <taildrags(at)hotmail.c om>=0ATo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com =0ASent: Friday, November 22, 2013 3 :38 PM=0ASubject: Pietenpol-List: Friday's mystery Piet=0A =0A=0A--> Piete npol-List message posted by: "taildrags" =0A=0AGoing through some pictures that I have on my computer, I came across one that I can't identify and the tail numbers aren't discernible.- Does anyone kno w who this is and where the airplane is based?=0A=0A--------=0AOscar Zuniga =0AMedford, OR=0AAir Camper NX41CC "Scout"=0AA75 power=0A=0A=0A =0A=0ARead this topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com/viewtop ic.php?p=413812#413812=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AAttachments: =0A=0Ahttp://forums.mat == ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Friday's mystery Piet
From: "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca>
Date: Nov 22, 2013
There are more photos of Vi's latest Piet on the Pietenpol Family website (way down at the bottom of the page), including this one which clearly shows the N-number (N26VK). Bill C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=413819#413819 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/n26vk_470.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Friday's mystery Piet
From: "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Nov 22, 2013
Roger! Two-Six-Victor-Kilo it is then! Very nice airplane; lots of details to inspect in the photos. I see he has 'cheaters' (brakes) on those big wheels. -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=413821#413821 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Corvair College 28, 28 Feb - 2 Mar 2014, San Marcos,
TX
From: "dgaldrich" <dgaldrich(at)embarqmail.com>
Date: Nov 22, 2013
There are a couple of pieces of baffling that might not be readily available for an engine run. The pieces that mount to the side of the block aft of the cylinders come to mind. If the cylinder heads are stock (without the welded on tube facing aft, there are adapters available, or there were when I ran mine. As Bob said, pretty much every thing else is easy to come by at the CC. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=413825#413825 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: To Flop, or Not To Flop, That is the Question
From: "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Nov 22, 2013
I have a question for you builders and owners of Piets that are without a Flop. I have read plenty of discussion over Flop versus cutout. But I have not read much from the "Non-Floppers". I am currently building my center section according to the 3-piece plans. Those plans do not show a Flop, so my question is this- To those of you flying without a Flop OR Cutout, do you wish you had it, or is it not a big deal? I know that people believe it makes/or will make it easier to ingress or egress the cockpit, but I also know many people add an inch or two to the stock cabane length. Does that lessen the need for a Flop? What say ye? Your thoughts? Thanks! -------- Semper Fi, Terry Hand Athens, GA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=413831#413831 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <jack(at)bedfordlandings.com>
Subject: To Flop, or Not To Flop, That is the Question
Date: Nov 22, 2013
I have a cutout in my centersection and really like the ease of ingress/egress for the rear cockpit. My centersection is 6" wider than plans, which adds exactly as much wing area as my cutout removed (not that this really means anything). I also like the improved visibility in a turn which the cutout provides, something a flop will not do. I've flown Piets without a flop or cutout (John Hofmann's N502R comes to mind) and find it very difficult to slide my 6'2" frame into the rear cockpit under that wing. Jack Phillips NX899JP Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of jarheadpilot82 Sent: Friday, November 22, 2013 8:17 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: To Flop, or Not To Flop, That is the Question I have a question for you builders and owners of Piets that are without a Flop. I have read plenty of discussion over Flop versus cutout. But I have not read much from the "Non-Floppers". I am currently building my center section according to the 3-piece plans. Those plans do not show a Flop, so my question is this- To those of you flying without a Flop OR Cutout, do you wish you had it, or is it not a big deal? I know that people believe it makes/or will make it easier to ingress or egress the cockpit, but I also know many people add an inch or two to the stock cabane length. Does that lessen the need for a Flop? What say ye? Your thoughts? Thanks! -------- Semper Fi, Terry Hand Athens, GA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=413831#413831 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: To Flop, or Not To Flop, That is the Question
From: John Hofmann <jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc.com>
Date: Nov 22, 2013
I agree with Jack on that one. My cutout is not much and I find it difficult to get in and out. If I had a choice I would add a flop. Best, -john- John Hofmann Vice-President, IT and Production The Rees Group, Inc. 2424 American Lane Madison, WI 53704 Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150 Fax: 608.443.2474 Email: jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc.com On Nov 22, 2013, at 8:03 PM, Jack Phillips wrote: > > I have a cutout in my centersection and really like the ease of > ingress/egress for the rear cockpit. My centersection is 6" wider than > plans, which adds exactly as much wing area as my cutout removed (not that > this really means anything). I also like the improved visibility in a turn > which the cutout provides, something a flop will not do. > > I've flown Piets without a flop or cutout (John Hofmann's N502R comes to > mind) and find it very difficult to slide my 6'2" frame into the rear > cockpit under that wing. > > Jack Phillips > NX899JP > Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of > jarheadpilot82 > Sent: Friday, November 22, 2013 8:17 PM > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: To Flop, or Not To Flop, That is the Question > > > > I have a question for you builders and owners of Piets that are without a > Flop. I have read plenty of discussion over Flop versus cutout. But I have > not read much from the "Non-Floppers". > > I am currently building my center section according to the 3-piece plans. > Those plans do not show a Flop, so my question is this- > > To those of you flying without a Flop OR Cutout, do you wish you had it, or > is it not a big deal? I know that people believe it makes/or will make it > easier to ingress or egress the cockpit, but I also know many people add an > inch or two to the stock cabane length. Does that lessen the need for a > Flop? > > What say ye? Your thoughts? Thanks! > > -------- > Semper Fi, > > Terry Hand > Athens, GA > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=413831#413831 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: To Flop, or Not To Flop, That is the Question
From: airlion2(at)gmail.com
Date: Nov 22, 2013
Terry, I could not do without a cut out. It makes it so much easier to get in and out. Now if you want to get technical maybe you could figure out how much lift you loose. Gardiner. Sent from my iPad > On Nov 22, 2013, at 8:17 PM, "jarheadpilot82" wrote: > T a cut out > > I have a question for you builders and owners of Piets that are without a Flop. I have read plenty of discussion over Flop versus cutout. But I have not read much from the "Non-Floppers". > > I am currently building my center section according to the 3-piece plans. Those plans do not show a Flop, so my question is this- > > To those of you flying without a Flop OR Cutout, do you wish you had it, or is it not a big deal? I know that people believe it makes/or will make it easier to ingress or egress the cockpit, but I also know many people add an inch or two to the stock cabane length. Does that lessen the need for a Flop? > > What say ye? Your thoughts? Thanks! > > -------- > Semper Fi, > > Terry Hand > Athens, GA > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=413831#413831 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Friday's mystery Piet
From: "dwilson" <marwilson(at)charter.net>
Date: Nov 22, 2013
Vi lives in Rochester, Minnesota. He parks the Piet on a private strip just south of Eyota, MN. The runway runs North South and south of Eyota and North of I-90. Easy to find on google maps... Dan Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=413839#413839 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Okay, I am Convinced. So How Big Is the Hinge?
From: "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Nov 23, 2013
Okay, you convinced me to do the Flop. It really did not take much to convince me. Thanks to John Hoffman and his input especially since he has the real world experience of having to put up without a large flop every time he flies. So how big is the hinge? By that I mean, how wide is each leaf and how thick? Thanks. -------- Semper Fi, Terry Hand Athens, GA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=413864#413864 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Paul's floor
Date: Nov 23, 2013
Very nice Paul! Adds a very nice vintage/classic flavor with no extra weight. Douwe ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: To Flop, or Not To Flop, That is the Question
From: "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com>
Date: Nov 23, 2013
I like the simplicity of not having one. No cutout, no flop. It's all in the technique of getting in and out. I'm about 6'3" and I've never felt the need for one. In fact I've flown a few that have them and it almost seemed awkward to get in and out but that's only because I'm used to the other way. It's really just a matter of what you like. :-) Don Emch NX899DE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=413868#413868 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 23, 2013
From: Jim Boyer <boyerjrb(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Friday's mystery Piet
Hi Oscar, That is Vi Kaplers new Piet he just finished last year. Jim B. =C2- ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: To Flop, or Not To Flop, That is the Question
From: danhelsper(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 23, 2013
Flop. Without question. Because it's in the F&G plans, and it makes it much easier to get in and out. Plus....it's cool to have one :O) Dan Helsper Puryear TN -----Original Message----- From: jarheadpilot82 <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com> Sent: Fri, Nov 22, 2013 7:18 pm Subject: Pietenpol-List: To Flop, or Not To Flop, That is the Question ail.com> I have a question for you builders and owners of Piets that are without a F lop. I have read plenty of discussion over Flop versus cutout. But I have not re ad much from the "Non-Floppers". I am currently building my center section according to the 3-piece plans. T hose plans do not show a Flop, so my question is this- To those of you flying without a Flop OR Cutout, do you wish you had it, or is it not a big deal? I know that people believe it makes/or will make it easi er to ingress or egress the cockpit, but I also know many people add an inch or t wo to the stock cabane length. Does that lessen the need for a Flop? What say ye? Your thoughts? Thanks! -------- Semper Fi, Terry Hand Athens, GA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=413831#413831 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Okay, I am Convinced. So How Big Is the Hinge?
From: "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Nov 23, 2013
Terry; the flop hinge on my airplane is piano hinge and runs almost full-span the width of the centersection. I think it's about 18" long. It's just standard piano hinge like what's used for the ailerons. That's not to say you couldn't do the job with a couple of strap hinges or butt hinges or something else though. -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=413901#413901 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Clif Dawson" <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: To Flop, or Not To Flop, That is the Question
Date: Nov 23, 2013
Maybe so. Now. Just remember, every day you are a little older. One day you get up in the morning, a beautiful flying morning, you don't go. It's just too hard to get in and out of your flopless creation. Parts of your body just hurt to bend that much anymore. :-) Clif Life is uncertain. Eat dessert first. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com> Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2013 7:04 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: To Flop, or Not To Flop, That is the Question > > I like the simplicity of not having one. No cutout, no flop. It's all in > the technique of getting in and out. I'm about 6'3" and I've never felt > the need for one. In fact I've flown a few that have them and it almost > seemed awkward to get in and out but that's only because I'm used to the > other way. It's really just a matter of what you like. :-) > > Don Emch > NX899DE > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=413868#413868 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Okay, I am Convinced. So How Big Is the Hinge?
From: "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Nov 24, 2013
Oscar, I understand that. What I was asking was the width of each leaf, each separate section. Is each leaf 1 inch, 1-1/2, or 2 inches, for example. -------- Semper Fi, Terry Hand Athens, GA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=413912#413912 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: to flop or not to flop...
Date: Nov 24, 2013
IF you build a flop in the wing, it is a very good idea to let it protrude into the wing root on the side you like to "mount" from. This way, when it's open, there is more of a "hole" for your head. I personally like my flop for the reasons Dan mentions, BUT I've not tried to get into one without, so my opinion isn't worth a lot. ALSO. if you build one, and I'm sure I'm not alone in this. I occasionally forget the flop is up when I start the engine and once I gun it to taxi, the flop BANGS down hard. I don't have a mechanical stop so the hinge in essence is stopping it and as it does so is being "pried" off by the leverage. I had to tighten the screws a few times and make a mod there, but biggest mod being to remember to CLOSE THE FLOP! Douwe ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: To Flop, or Not To Flop, That is the Question
From: "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com>
Date: Nov 24, 2013
Dan... Reason enough alone to flop! Cliff... I hear ya. I'm 41 and I no longer think guys are crazy that complain all the time about stiffness. Don Emch NX899DE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=413925#413925 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ray Krause <raykrause(at)frontiernet.net>
Subject: Re: To Flop, or Not To Flop, That is the Question
Date: Nov 24, 2013
Sure wish I were 41, but then I would still be working, not playing with my t oys! Gee, 30 years younger! Can't even remember all the things I could do th en, probably better that way. My flop on SkyScout is just as wide as the center section, a mistake. On the plans it is wider, but more complicated to build. Wish I would have followe d the plans more closely. Bernard was only about 30 when he designed it, wha t a smart, forward looking guy! Ray Krause SkyScout coming along.. Sent from my iPad > On Nov 24, 2013, at 9:19 AM, "Don Emch" wrote: > > > Dan... Reason enough alone to flop! > > Cliff... I hear ya. I'm 41 and I no longer think guys are crazy that comp lain all the time about stiffness. > > Don Emch > NX899DE > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=413925#413925 > > > > > > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= > > >

      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 24, 2013
Subject: Re: Okay, I am Convinced. So How Big Is the Hinge?
From: Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com>
Terry do it in Lexan so you can see through it! Or perhaps you could put a cubby hole in it for gloves. I am just full of great ideas;+} Steve D On Sat, Nov 23, 2013 at 8:28 AM, jarheadpilot82 wrote: > jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com> > > Okay, you convinced me to do the Flop. It really did not take much to > convince me. Thanks to John Hoffman and his input especially since he has > the real world experience of having to put up without a large flop every > time he flies. > > So how big is the hinge? By that I mean, how wide is each leaf and how > thick? > > Thanks. > > -------- > Semper Fi, > > Terry Hand > Athens, GA > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=413864#413864 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: to flop or not to flop...
From: danhelsper(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 24, 2013
If I had a nickel every time I forgot to close that dang thing........... Dan Helsper Puryear, TN -----Original Message----- From: Douwe Blumberg <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> Sent: Sun, Nov 24, 2013 12:53 pm Subject: Pietenpol-List: to flop or not to flop... IF you build a flop in the wing, it is a very good idea tolet it protrude i nto the wing root on the side you like to =9Cmount=9Dfrom. Thi s way, when it=99s open, there is more of a =9Chole=9Dfor your head. I personally like my flop for the reasons Dan mentions, BUTI=99ve not tried to get into one without, so my opinion isn=99t worth alot. ALSO if you build one, and I=99m sure I=99mnot alone i n this I occasionally forget the flop is up when I start the engineand once I gun it to taxi, the flop BANGS down hard. I don=99t have amechanical sto p so the hinge in essence is stopping it and as it does so isbeing =9Cpried=9D off by the leverage. I had to tighten thescrews a few ti mes and make a mod there, but biggest mod being to remember toCLOSE THE FLO P! Douwe ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: to flop or not to flop...
From: danhelsper(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 24, 2013
Here is a photo of my flop. Note the extra bay width on the left side only. At the time I had a hinged, hold-open arm on the right side but abandon th at idea (too complicated). Note the extra storage inside the wing (stole th at idea from the Top Curmudgeon). Ultimately fabricated a clear lexan panel inside there to protect the pulley's/cables and to make inspection easier. Dan Helsper Puryear, TN -----Original Message----- From: danhelsper <danhelsper(at)aol.com> Sent: Sun, Nov 24, 2013 4:17 pm Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: to flop or not to flop... If I had a nickel every time I forgot to close that dang thing........... Dan Helsper Puryear, TN -----Original Message----- From: Douwe Blumberg <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> Sent: Sun, Nov 24, 2013 12:53 pm Subject: Pietenpol-List: to flop or not to flop... IF you build a flop in the wing, it is a very good idea tolet it protrude i nto the wing root on the side you like to =9Cmount=9Dfrom. Thi s way, when it=99s open, there is more of a =9Chole=9Dfor your head. I personally like my flop for the reasons Dan mentions, BUTI=99ve not tried to get into one without, so my opinion isn=99t worth alot. ALSO if you build one, and I=99m sure I=99mnot alone i n this I occasionally forget the flop is up when I start the engineand once I gun it to taxi, the flop BANGS down hard. I don=99t have amechanical sto p so the hinge in essence is stopping it and as it does so isbeing =9Cpried=9D off by the leverage. I had to tighten thescrews a few ti mes and make a mod there, but biggest mod being to remember toCLOSE THE FLO P! Douwe _blank">www.aeroelectric.com " target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com ="_blank">www.mypilotstore.com ank">www.mrrace.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List tp://forums.matronics.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: To Flop, or Not To Flop, That is the Question
From: "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Nov 24, 2013
Terry; the hinge straps on my flop are 3/4" wide. Now, take a look at the attached picture of the hinges that I replaced and note a few things NOT to do. (1) don't countersink the screws... there is no need to, and it really weakens the material; (2) keep the holes away from the edge, because as I and others have noted, the flop can flop and when it does, the metal gets stressed at the screw holes. -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=413958#413958 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/flophings_216.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Clif Dawson" <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: floppity flop
Date: Nov 24, 2013
Alright, you made me do it. My flop. The open areas will be covered both sides with lexan. And yes, I've sat a piece of it in a bottle of fuel for days with absolutely no effect. Clif Happiness is a dry head and a wet tank. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 25, 2013
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: [PLEASE READ] Why I Have A Fund Raiser...
>From the beginning, the Matronics List and Forum experience has been free from advertising. I have been approached by fair number of vendors wanting to tap into the large volume of activity across the various lists hosted here, but have always flatly refused. Everywhere you go on the Internet these days, a user is pummeled with flashing banners and videos and ads for crap that they don't want. Yahoo, Google and that elk are not "free". The user must constantly endure their barrage of commercialism thrust into their face at an ever increasing rate. Enough is enough, and the Lists at Matronics choose not to succumb to that. That being said, running a service of this size is not "free". It costs a lot of money to maintain the hardware, pay for the electricity, air conditioning, maintenance contracts, etc, etc. etc. I choose to hold a PBS-like fund raiser each year during the month of November where I simply send out a short email every other day asking the members to make a small contribution to support the operation. That being said, that contribution is completely voluntary and non-compulsory. Many members choose not to contribute and that's fine. However, a very modest percentage of the members do choose to make a contribution and it is that financial support that keeps the Lists running. And that's it. To my way of thinking, it is a much more pleasant way of maintaining the Lists and Forums. The other 11 months of the year, you don't see a single advertisement or request for support. That's refreshing and that is a List and Forum that I want to belong to. I think other people feel the same way. Won't you please take a minute to make your Contribution today and support these Lists? http://www.matronics.com/contribution Or, drop a personal check in the mail to: Matt Dralle / Matronics 581 Jeannie Way Livermore CA 94550 USA Thank you for your support! Matt Dralle Email List Admin. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Fuel line safety
From: danhelsper(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 25, 2013
Does anyone have any photos or diagrams of how to safely rout the fuel line s down from the tank and forward to the firewall, without forming a low poc ket (condensate water) when the airplane is in a 3-point stance? I am tryin g to help a friend. Dan Helsper Puryear, TN ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Where are Flop plans?
From: "GrantZ" <grantz5906(at)aol.com>
Date: Nov 25, 2013
I am just getting started and have been reading the recent posts about the flop. Where can one find plans for the flop or is this something that everyone figures out for themselves? Thanks Grant Ziebell Savannah, TN Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=414043#414043 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: floppity flop
From: "John Francis" <Mrkringles(at)msn.com>
Date: Nov 25, 2013
Clif, Is there a latch that holds the flop down? John -------- John Francis Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=414051#414051 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fuel line safety
From: "GNflyer" <rayeh48(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Nov 25, 2013
what I ran was 3/8" stainless steel tubing and with the fuselage sitting in flight attitude I attempted to bake the bends work so that it would have a gradual all all the way to the gascolator which is mounted on my firewall close to the bottom-I can reach under the back of the cowl here it comes below the fuselage and press my quick drain on it - what I did was fasten my tubing to the rear edge of my left forward cabane and I do have a short section or rubber hose attaching it to the fitting in the valve which is right in the tank.. and just for my peace of mind I wrapped a piece of stainless steel safety wire around the valve- and along the hose and around the fuel line below it with the hopes that it would make a grounding path for static so if I am fueling from a pump or truck that has a ground wire I can hook t the exhaust pipe or such- it will be in contact through all the grounds from the engine to the firewall to the fuel line right on up to the tank. Raymond Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=414055#414055 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Subject: Fuel line safety
Date: Nov 25, 2013
No diagrams Dan but this pretty much covers what we need to know about runn ing our fuel lines. Mike C. http://members.eaa.org/home/homebuilders/building/fuel/5A%20Fuel%20Systems% 20Review.html http://members.eaa.org/home/homebuilders/building/fuel/5Avoiding%20Fuel%20R elated%20Problems.html ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Clif Dawson" <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: floppity flop
Date: Nov 26, 2013
There will be. Haven't gone there yet. Every time you turn around there's ANOTHER damn detail you haven't taken care of.......yet! :-) Of course the other reason is that the wing panels aren't on yet so there's nothing to latch to. Clif > Clif, Is there a latch that holds the flop down? > John Francis ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 26, 2013
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Of Pencils & Airplanes [Repost From AeroElectric-List]...
[Dear Listers, last week, Bob Nuckolls of the AeroElectric fame, posted a very nice message discussing the Lists and Forums at Matronics. It is a very insightful piece and I asked Bob if I could forward it to the rest of the Lists for the other members to enjoy and contemplate as well. He gladly agreed, and so below I have included the text from that message. Enjoy. -Matt Dralle, Matronics Email List and Forum Administrator] "As most of you know, Matt's ISP was fiddling with some crucial details for the exchange of data on the 'net a few weeks ago. The Lists, Matt's business site, and AeroElectric.com got really flakey. . . I was 'unhooked' from the List and all of three of my e-mail services for several days. Out of business and out of touch. After two days, I was beginning to worry. I had no idea as to root cause nor was there a time table for resolution . . . I began to mull over plan-B options. Of course, plan-B would have entailed seeking a new home for aeroelectric.com and ancillary services. NOT a quick, inexpensive or happy thing to contemplate. The time talents and resources that go into fabrication and maintenance of some of the 'simplest' features of our lives often go unnoticed . . . not because they're unappreciated . . . but simply because we're unaware of their significance. I will invite you all to read an essay by one Leonard Read written in 1958 titled "I pencil". See: http://tinyurl.com/me3q3hj It's a fascinating and well crafted peek into a society of unacquainted, self-interested individuals who exploited uncountable windows of opportunity for what has been called "spontaneous order" in the manufacture and sales of the simple wood pencil. The point of citing Mr. Read's essay is to examine two features of the human experience that contribute to the success of this List and our various interests in airplanes. The first point I'd like to make is that we cannot know the millions of individuals who contributed to the materials and infrastructure that make this List possible. We sit at the top of a pyramid of work-product derived from the time, talents and resources of millions of people who we'll never know. Another feature I'd like to emphasis is our ignorance of the criticality for any single component for a host of materials and components for the manufacture and sales of a simple pencil or an affordable airplane. Suppose any one of the materials or processes described in Read's essay were simply unavailable. How would that impact the price of a pencil? Would the pencil even continue to exist at it's new price? The really big question is, "How might some seemingly small loss ripple throughout the economy of our existence?" The time, talent and resources that support infrastructure for this List, my website, Matt's website, and our e-mails cannot be accurately known. That infrastructure stands on an exceedingly complex array of activities that arose from the ingenuity and spontaneous organization of free- market enterprises. But from our perch at the top of this pyramid we need only look down a few layers and see that this resource upon which we depend is vulnerable. There are risks we all assume . . . Matt could get t-boned in an intersection tomorrow. Lightning could strike the pole behind his facility and do catastrophic damage to the hardware. Yours truly could take a deer through the windshield on his way to Wichita some morning. Other risks are less catastrophic. They include things like amateurish behaviors by maintainers of the Internet highway's potholes. Perhaps some material critical to the manufacture of terabyte hard drives dries up. Or maybe the cost of keeping the lights on and the bytes herded become more than Matt can justify given his personal needs for existence. Several times a year I get an opportunity to plant new seeds of thought in the minds of fellow citizens. One of my favorites is to be standing in a long line at Panera's waiting to purchase a bagel and coffee and hear somebody in line complaining about the wait. I suggest to them that to wait in line for a much desired product is a GOOD thing. Not having to wait is a BAD thing if there is not enough business to encourage them to be open tomorrow. It goes without saying that few, if any of us, possess the talents, resources or motivation to step up and do what Matt does. At last count, there were about 1600 individuals who subscribe to this List [Aeroelectric-List]. . . certainly many more make up the population of subscribers to all of the Lists on Matronics. A few years back, Matt was besieged by legal trials and tribulations over the naming of his products . . . seems somebody claimed ownership of the words 'scan' and/or 'scanner' . . . We here on the AeroElectric-List perceived a risk to Matt's operations and came up with several thousands of dollars to contribute to his defense fund. We need make no greater 'investment' in Matt's operations now than it takes to stand in a line for a Quarter-Pounder Combo . . . or a fist full of pencils. You and I can have no more positive influence over the manufacture of pencils and hard drives than to continue to purchase such things and encourage those with the time, talent and resources to continue doing what they do best. Let's contribute to the comfortable maintenance of this service which is probably more valuable than we know. Just a little bit from thousands of us on the Matronics Lists can make a big difference. Bob . . ." Please take a minute to make your Contribution today: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Or, drop a personal check in the mail to: Matt Dralle / Matronics 581 Jeannie Way Livermore CA 94550 USA Thank you for your support! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List and Forum Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack" <jack(at)textors.com>
Subject: Re: To Flop, or Not To Flop, That is the Question
Date: Nov 26, 2013
Ray beautiful work. What is the cut-out for? Jack Textor West Des Moines, IA -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ray Krause Sent: Sunday, November 24, 2013 11:31 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: To Flop, or Not To Flop, That is the Question Sure wish I were 41, but then I would still be working, not playing with my toys! Gee, 30 years younger! Can't even remember all the things I could do then, probably better that way. My flop on SkyScout is just as wide as the center section, a mistake. On the plans it is wider, but more complicated to build. Wish I would have followed the plans more closely. Bernard was only about 30 when he designed it, what a smart, forward looking guy! Ray Krause SkyScout coming along.. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 26, 2013
From: jim hyde <jnl96(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Of Pencils & Airplanes [Repost From AeroElectric-List]...
I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT NOR DO I CARE. WHO THE FUCK IS MA TT DRALLE? WHAT THE FUCK IS AN ISP?- MY INTEREST IS IN BUILDING A PIETENP OL I DONT GIVE A SHIT WHERE THE STUFF COMES FROM OR WHO MADE IT AND I SURE DONT WANT TO BE HERE AND BE LECTURED.=0A-=0AJIM HYDE=0A=0AFrom: Matt Dral le =0ATo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com =0ASent: Tuesd ay, November 26, 2013 2:39 AM=0ASubject: Pietenpol-List: Of Pencils & Airpl anes [Repost From AeroElectric-List]...=0A=0A=0A--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Matt Dralle =0A=0A[Dear Listers, last week , Bob Nuckolls of the AeroElectric fame, posted a very nice message discuss ing the Lists and Forums at Matronics.- It is a very insightful piece and I asked Bob if I could forward it to the rest of the Lists for the other m embers to enjoy and contemplate as well.- He gladly agreed, and so below I have included the text from that message.- Enjoy.- -Matt Dralle, Matr onics Email List and Forum Administrator]=0A=0A"As most of you know, Matt's ISP was fiddling with some crucial =0Adetails for the exchange of data on the 'net a few weeks ago. =0AThe Lists, Matt's business site, and AeroElect ric.com got really =0Aflakey. . . I was 'unhooked' from the List and all of three of =0Amy e-mail services for several days. Out of business and out =0Aof touch. =0A=0AAfter two days, I was beginning to worry. I had no idea as =0Ato root cause nor was there a time table for resolution . . . =0AI be gan to mull over plan-B options. Of course, plan-B =0Awould have entailed s eeking a new home for aeroelectric.com and =0Aancillary services. NOT a qui ck, inexpensive or happy thing to =0Acontemplate. =0A=0AThe time talents an d resources that go into fabrication and =0Amaintenance of some of the 'sim plest' features of our lives often =0Ago unnoticed . . . not because they'r e unappreciated . . . but simply =0Abecause we're unaware of their signific ance. =0A=0AI will invite you all to read an essay by one Leonard Read writ ten =0Ain 1958 titled "I pencil". See: =0A=0A- - http://tinyurl.com/me3 q3hj=0A=0AIt's a fascinating and well crafted peek into a society of =0Auna cquainted, self-interested individuals who exploited =0Auncountable windows of opportunity for what has =0Abeen called "spontaneous order" in the manu facture and sales =0Aof the simple wood pencil. The point of citing Mr. Rea d's =0Aessay is to examine two features of the human experience that =0Acon tribute to the success of this List and our various interests =0Ain airplan es. =0A=0AThe first point I'd like to make is that we cannot know =0Athe mi llions of individuals who contributed to the materials =0Aand infrastructur e that make this List possible. We sit at the =0Atop of a pyramid of work-p roduct derived from the time, =0Atalents and resources of millions of peopl e who we'll never =0Aknow. =0A=0AAnother feature I'd like to emphasis is ou r ignorance =0Aof the criticality for any single component for a host =0Aof materials and components for the manufacture and =0Asales of a simple penc il or an affordable airplane. Suppose =0Aany one of the materials or proces ses described in Read's =0Aessay were simply unavailable. How would that im pact =0Athe price of a pencil? Would the pencil even continue to =0Aexist a t it's new price? The really big question is, "How =0Amight some seemingly small loss ripple throughout the =0Aeconomy of our existence?" =0A=0AThe ti me, talent and resources that support infrastructure =0Afor this List, my w ebsite, Matt's website, and our e-mails =0Acannot be accurately known. That infrastructure stands =0Aon an exceedingly complex array of activities tha t arose =0Afrom the ingenuity and spontaneous organization of free- =0Amark et enterprises. But from our perch at the top of =0Athis pyramid we need on ly look down a few layers and see that =0Athis resource upon which we depen d is vulnerable. There are =0Arisks we all assume . . . Matt could get t-bo ned in an =0Aintersection tomorrow. Lightning could strike the pole behind =0Ahis facility and do catastrophic damage to the hardware. =0AYours truly could take a deer through the windshield on =0Ahis way to Wichita some morn ing. =0A=0AOther risks are less catastrophic. They include things =0Alike a mateurish behaviors by maintainers of the Internet =0Ahighway's potholes. P erhaps some material critical to =0Athe manufacture of terabyte hard drives dries up. Or =0Amaybe the cost of keeping the lights on and the bytes =0Ah erded become more than Matt can justify given his personal =0Aneeds for exi stence. =0A=0ASeveral times a year I get an opportunity to =0Aplant new see ds of thought in the minds of fellow citizens. =0AOne of my favorites is to be standing in a long line =0Aat Panera's waiting to purchase a bagel and coffee and =0Ahear somebody in line complaining about the =0Await. I sugges t to them that to wait in line for a =0Amuch desired product is a GOOD thin g. Not having =0Ato wait is a BAD thing if there is not enough business =0A to encourage them to be open tomorrow. =0A=0AIt goes without saying that fe w, if any of us, possess the =0Atalents, resources or motivation to step up and do what =0AMatt does. At last count, there were about 1600 individuals =0Awho subscribe to this List [Aeroelectric-List]. . . =0Acertainly many m ore make up the population of subscribers =0Ato all of the Lists on Matroni cs. =0A=0AA few years back, Matt was besieged by legal trials =0Aand tribul ations over the naming of his products . . . =0Aseems somebody claimed owne rship of the words 'scan' =0Aand/or 'scanner' . . . We here on the AeroElec tric-List =0Aperceived a risk to Matt's operations and came up with =0Aseve ral thousands of dollars to contribute to his defense =0Afund. We need make no greater 'investment' in Matt's =0Aoperations now than it takes to stand in a line for =0Aa Quarter-Pounder Combo . . . or a fist full of pencils. =0A=0AYou and I can have no more positive influence over the =0Amanufacture of pencils and hard drives than to continue =0Ato purchase such things and encourage those with the =0Atime, talent and resources to continue doing w hat they =0Ado best. =0A=0ALet's contribute to the comfortable maintenance of this =0Aservice which is probably more valuable than we know. =0AJust a little bit from thousands of us on the Matronics =0ALists can make a big di fference. =0A=0ABob . . ."=0A=0A=0A=0APlease take a minute to make your Con tribution today:=0A=0A- - - - http://www.matronics.com/contribution =0A=0AOr, drop a personal check in the mail to: =0A=0A- - - - Matt Dralle / Matronics =0A- - - - 581 Jeannie Way =0A- - - - Li vermore CA 94550=0A- - - - USA=0A=0AThank you for your support! =0A =0AMatt Dralle =0AMatronics Email List and Forum Administrator=0A=0A=0A=0A_ -======================== ==== ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: flop latch
Date: Nov 26, 2013
Yes, there should be some sort of latch to keep the flop down. Without it, it'll "flop" around while taxiing pretty badly, especially on rough surfaces, and will raise up an inch or two during flight. Lots of latches have been used, and they all work fine. Douwe ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 26, 2013
Subject: Re: Of Pencils & Airplanes [Repost From AeroElectric-List]...
From: Ryan Mueller <ryan(at)rmueller.org>
Always good to put a face on a profane rant: On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 8:24 AM, jim hyde wrote: > I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT NOR DO I CARE. WHO THE FUCK IS > MATT DRALLE? WHAT THE FUCK IS AN ISP? MY INTEREST IS IN BUILDING A > PIETENPOL I DONT GIVE A SHIT WHERE THE STUFF COMES FROM OR WHO MADE IT AND > I SURE DONT WANT TO BE HERE AND BE LECTURED. > > JIM HYDE > > *From:* Matt Dralle > *To:* pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > *Sent:* Tuesday, November 26, 2013 2:39 AM > *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: Of Pencils & Airplanes [Repost From > AeroElectric-List]... > > > [Dear Listers, last week, Bob Nuckolls of the AeroElectric fame, posted a > very nice message discussing the Lists and Forums at Matronics. It is a > very insightful piece and I asked Bob if I could forward it to the rest of > the Lists for the other members to enjoy and contemplate as well. He > gladly agreed, and so below I have included the text from that message. > Enjoy. -Matt Dralle, Matronics Email List and Forum Administrator] > > "As most of you know, Matt's ISP was fiddling with some crucial > details for the exchange of data on the 'net a few weeks ago. > The Lists, Matt's business site, and AeroElectric.com got really > flakey. . . I was 'unhooked' from the List and all of three of > my e-mail services for several days. Out of business and out > of touch. > > After two days, I was beginning to worry. I had no idea as > to root cause nor was there a time table for resolution . . . > I began to mull over plan-B options. Of course, plan-B > would have entailed seeking a new home for aeroelectric.com and > ancillary services. NOT a quick, inexpensive or happy thing to > contemplate. > > The time talents and resources that go into fabrication and > maintenance of some of the 'simplest' features of our lives often > go unnoticed . . . not because they're unappreciated . . . but simply > because we're unaware of their significance. > > I will invite you all to read an essay by one Leonard Read written > in 1958 titled "I pencil". See: > > http://tinyurl.com/me3q3hj > > It's a fascinating and well crafted peek into a society of > unacquainted, self-interested individuals who exploited > uncountable windows of opportunity for what has > been called "spontaneous order" in the manufacture and sales > of the simple wood pencil. The point of citing Mr. Read's > essay is to examine two features of the human experience that > contribute to the success of this List and our various interests > in airplanes. > > The first point I'd like to make is that we cannot know > the millions of individuals who contributed to the materials > and infrastructure that make this List possible. We sit at the > top of a pyramid of work-product derived from the time, > talents and resources of millions of people who we'll never > know. > > Another feature I'd like to emphasis is our ignorance > of the criticality for any single component for a host > of materials and components for the manufacture and > sales of a simple pencil or an affordable airplane. Suppose > any one of the materials or processes described in Read's > essay were simply unavailable. How would that impact > the price of a pencil? Would the pencil even continue to > exist at it's new price? The really big question is, "How > might some seemingly small loss ripple throughout the > economy of our existence?" > > The time, talent and resources that support infrastructure > for this List, my website, Matt's website, and our e-mails > cannot be accurately known. That infrastructure stands > on an exceedingly complex array of activities that arose > from the ingenuity and spontaneous organization of free- > market enterprises. But from our perch at the top of > this pyramid we need only look down a few layers and see that > this resource upon which we depend is vulnerable. There are > risks we all assume . . . Matt could get t-boned in an > intersection tomorrow. Lightning could strike the pole behind > his facility and do catastrophic damage to the hardware. > Yours truly could take a deer through the windshield on > his way to Wichita some morning. > > Other risks are less catastrophic. They include things > like amateurish behaviors by maintainers of the Internet > highway's potholes. Perhaps some material critical to > the manufacture of terabyte hard drives dries up. Or > maybe the cost of keeping the lights on and the bytes > herded become more than Matt can justify given his personal > needs for existence. > > Several times a year I get an opportunity to > plant new seeds of thought in the minds of fellow citizens. > One of my favorites is to be standing in a long line > at Panera's waiting to purchase a bagel and coffee and > hear somebody in line complaining about the > wait. I suggest to them that to wait in line for a > much desired product is a GOOD thing. Not having > to wait is a BAD thing if there is not enough business > to encourage them to be open tomorrow. > > It goes without saying that few, if any of us, possess the > talents, resources or motivation to step up and do what > Matt does. At last count, there were about 1600 individuals > who subscribe to this List [Aeroelectric-List]. . . > certainly many more make up the population of subscribers > to all of the Lists on Matronics. > > A few years back, Matt was besieged by legal trials > and tribulations over the naming of his products . . . > seems somebody claimed ownership of the words 'scan' > and/or 'scanner' . . . We here on the AeroElectric-List > perceived a risk to Matt's operations and came up with > several thousands of dollars to contribute to his defense > fund. We need make no greater 'investment' in Matt's > operations now than it takes to stand in a line for > a Quarter-Pounder Combo . . . or a fist full of pencils. > > You and I can have no more positive influence over the > manufacture of pencils and hard drives than to continue > to purchase such things and encourage those with the > time, talent and resources to continue doing what they > do best. > > Let's contribute to the comfortable maintenance of this > service which is probably more valuable than we know. > Just a little bit from thousands of us on the Matronics > Lists can make a big difference. > > Bob . . ." > > > Please take a minute to make your Contribution today: > > http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > Or, drop a personal check in the mail to: > > Matt Dralle / Matronics > 581 Jeannie Way > Livermore CA 94550 > USA > > Thank you for your support! > > Matt Dralle > Matronics Email List and Forum = (And Get Some AWESOME FREE > Gifts!)http://www.matrtp://forums.matronics.com/" target=_blank> > http://forums.matronics.com/ > > > * > > * > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Of Pencils & Airplanes [Repost From AeroElectric-List]...
From: "giacummo" <mario.giacummo(at)gmail.com>
Date: Nov 26, 2013
My english is so so, but, did I understand well what branifman wrote? -------- Mario Giacummo Photos here: http://goo.gl/wh7M4 Little Blog : http://vgmk1.blogspot.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=414187#414187 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Max Hegler <maxhegler(at)msn.com>
Subject: Of Pencils & Airplanes [Repost From AeroElectric-List]...
Date: Nov 26, 2013
Jim=2C Since you asked so nicely=2C Matt Dralle is the person that built the Piete npol list that all of us use to get information to each other about buildin g Pietenpols and other types of aircraft on other user lists. He is knows h ow to put together a computer network and secure the Internet Service Provi der (ISP) to keep it running smoothly. Not an easy or inexpensive task. He provides the equipment and pays for the ISP and does not charge for his ser vice. No one has to pay him anything. However=2C since is is so expensive t o operate=2C he does have a fundraiser in November to help defer expenses. Since I am on several of his users groups=2C I am happy to donate. I know t here are many who just want to build a Pietenpol and don't care where they get the information and that is okay. Most of us find the list to be a grea t way to avoid making mistakes and ending up as a safety statistic... Max Date: Tue=2C 26 Nov 2013 06:24:41 -0800 From: jnl96(at)yahoo.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Of Pencils & Airplanes [Repost From AeroElectr ic-List]... I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT NOR DO I CARE. WHO THE FUCK IS MA TT DRALLE? WHAT THE FUCK IS AN ISP? MY INTEREST IS IN BUILDING A PIETENPOL I DONT GIVE A SHIT WHERE THE STUFF COMES FROM OR WHO MADE IT AND I SURE DO NT WANT TO BE HERE AND BE LECTURED.=0A =0A JIM HYDE=0A =0A =0A =0A =0A From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> Sent: Tuesday=2C November 26=2C 2013 2:39 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Of Pencils & Airplanes [Repost From AeroElectric-L ist]... =0A [Dear Listers=2C last week=2C Bob Nuckolls of the AeroElectric fame=2C post ed a very nice message discussing the Lists and Forums at Matronics. It is a very insightful piece and I asked Bob if I could forward it to the rest of the Lists for the other members to enjoy and contemplate as well. He gl adly agreed=2C and so below I have included the text from that message. En joy. -Matt Dralle=2C Matronics Email List and Forum Administrator] "As most of you know=2C Matt's ISP was fiddling with some crucial details for the exchange of data on the 'net a few weeks ago. The Lists=2C Matt's business site=2C and AeroElectric.com got really flakey. . . I was 'unhooked' from the List and all of three of my e-mail services for several days.=0A Out of business and out of touch. After two days=2C I was beginning to worry. I had no idea as to root cause nor was there a time table for resolution . . . I began to mull over plan-B options. Of course=2C plan-B would have entailed seeking a new home for aeroelectric.com and ancillary services. NOT a quick=2C inexpensive or happy thing to contemplate. The time talents and resources that go into fabrication and maintenance of some of the 'simplest' features of our lives often go unnoticed . . . not because they're unappreciated . . . but simply because we're unaware of their significance. I will invite you all to read an essay by one Leonard Read written in 1958 titled "I pencil". See: http://tinyurl.com/me3q3hj It's a fascinating and well crafted peek into a society of unacquainted=2C self-interested=0A individuals who exploited uncountable windows of opportunity for what has been called "spontaneous order" in the manufacture and sales of the simple wood pencil. The point of citing Mr. Read's essay is to examine two features of the human experience that contribute to the success of this List and our various interests in airplanes. The first point I'd like to make is that we cannot know the millions of individuals who contributed to the materials and infrastructure that make this List possible. We sit at the top of a pyramid of work-product derived from the time=2C talents and resources of millions of people who we'll never know. Another feature I'd like to emphasis is our ignorance of the criticality for any single component for a host of materials and components for the manufacture and sales of a simple pencil or an affordable airplane. Suppose any one of the materials or=0A processes described in Read's essay were simply unavailable. How would that impact the price of a pencil? Would the pencil even continue to exist at it's new price? The really big question is=2C "How might some seemingly small loss ripple throughout the economy of our existence?" The time=2C talent and resources that support infrastructure for this List=2C my website=2C Matt's website=2C and our e-mails cannot be accurately known. That infrastructure stands on an exceedingly complex array of activities that arose from the ingenuity and spontaneous organization of free- market enterprises. But from our perch at the top of this pyramid we need only look down a few layers and see that this resource upon which we depend is vulnerable. There are risks we all assume . . . Matt could get t-boned in an intersection tomorrow. Lightning could strike the pole behind his facility and do catastrophic damage=0A to the hardware. Yours truly could take a deer through the windshield on his way to Wichita some morning. Other risks are less catastrophic. They include things like amateurish behaviors by maintainers of the Internet highway's potholes. Perhaps some material critical to the manufacture of terabyte hard drives dries up. Or maybe the cost of keeping the lights on and the bytes herded become more than Matt can justify given his personal needs for existence. Several times a year I get an opportunity to plant new seeds of thought in the minds of fellow citizens. One of my favorites is to be standing in a long line at Panera's waiting to purchase a bagel and coffee and hear somebody in line complaining about the wait. I suggest to them that to wait in line for a much desired product is a GOOD thing. Not having to wait is a BAD thing if there is not enough business to encourage=0A them to be open tomorrow. It goes without saying that few=2C if any of us=2C possess the talents=2C resources or motivation to step up and do what Matt does. At last count=2C there were about 1600 individuals who subscribe to this List [Aeroelectric-List]. . . certainly many more make up the population of subscribers to all of the Lists on Matronics. A few years back=2C Matt was besieged by legal trials and tribulations over the naming of his products . . . seems somebody claimed ownership of the words 'scan' and/or 'scanner' . . . We here on the AeroElectric-List perceived a risk to Matt's operations and came up with several thousands of dollars to contribute to his defense fund. We need make no greater 'investment' in Matt's operations now than it takes to stand in a line for a Quarter-Pounder Combo . . . or a fist full of pencils. You and I can have no more positive influence over the=0A manufacture of pencils and hard drives than to continue to purchase such things and encourage those with the time=2C talent and resources to continue doing what they do best. Let's contribute to the comfortable maintenance of this service which is probably more valuable than we know. Just a little bit from thousands of us on the Matronics Lists can make a big difference. Bob . . ." Please take a minute to make your Contribution today: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Or=2C drop a personal check in the mail to: Matt Dralle / Matronics 581 Jeannie Way Livermore CA 94550 USA Thank you for your support! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List and Forum=0A = (And Get Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!)http://www.matrtp://forums.m atronics.com/" target=_blank>http://forums.matronics.com/ =0A =0A =0A ============0A ============0A ============0A ============0A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick N" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: Of Pencils & Airplanes [Repost From AeroElectric-List]...
Date: Nov 26, 2013
I will happily remember your name and this post and NOT respond to any of your posts. Dick N ----- Original Message ----- From: jim hyde To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2013 8:24 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Of Pencils & Airplanes [Repost From AeroElectric-List]... I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT NOR DO I CARE. WHO THE FUCK IS MATT DRALLE? WHAT THE FUCK IS AN ISP? MY INTEREST IS IN BUILDING A PIETENPOL I DONT GIVE A SHIT WHERE THE STUFF COMES FROM OR WHO MADE IT AND I SURE DONT WANT TO BE HERE AND BE LECTURED. JIM HYDE From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2013 2:39 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Of Pencils & Airplanes [Repost From AeroElectric-List]... [Dear Listers, last week, Bob Nuckolls of the AeroElectric fame, posted a very nice message discussing the Lists and Forums at Matronics. It is a very insightful piece and I asked Bob if I could forward it to the rest of the Lists for the other members to enjoy and contemplate as well. He gladly agreed, and so below I have included the text from that message. Enjoy. -Matt Dralle, Matronics Email List and Forum Administrator] "As most of you know, Matt's ISP was fiddling with some crucial details for the exchange of data on the 'net a few weeks ago. The Lists, Matt's business site, and AeroElectric.com got really flakey. . . I was 'unhooked' from the List and all of three of my e-mail services for several days. Out of business and out of touch. After two days, I was beginning to worry. I had no idea as to root cause nor was there a time table for resolution . . . I began to mull over plan-B options. Of course, plan-B would have entailed seeking a new home for aeroelectric.com and ancillary services. NOT a quick, inexpensive or happy thing to contemplate. The time talents and resources that go into fabrication and maintenance of some of the 'simplest' features of our lives often go unnoticed . . . not because they're unappreciated . . . but simply because we're unaware of their significance. I will invite you all to read an essay by one Leonard Read written in 1958 titled "I pencil". See: http://tinyurl.com/me3q3hj It's a fascinating and well crafted peek into a society of unacquainted, self-interested individuals who exploited uncountable windows of opportunity for what has been called "spontaneous order" in the manufacture and sales of the simple wood pencil. The point of citing Mr. Read's essay is to examine two features of the human experience that contribute to the success of this List and our various interests in airplanes. The first point I'd like to make is that we cannot know the millions of individuals who contributed to the materials and infrastructure that make this List possible. We sit at the top of a pyramid of work-product derived from the time, talents and resources of millions of people who we'll never know. Another feature I'd like to emphasis is our ignorance of the criticality for any single component for a host of materials and components for the manufacture and sales of a simple pencil or an affordable airplane. Suppose any one of the materials or processes described in Read's essay were simply unavailable. How would that impact the price of a pencil? Would the pencil even continue to exist at it's new price? The really big question is, "How might some seemingly small loss ripple throughout the economy of our existence?" The time, talent and resources that support infrastructure for this List, my website, Matt's website, and our e-mails cannot be accurately known. That infrastructure stands on an exceedingly complex array of activities that arose from the ingenuity and spontaneous organization of free- market enterprises. But from our perch at the top of this pyramid we need only look down a few layers and see that this resource upon which we depend is vulnerable. There are risks we all assume . . . Matt could get t-boned in an intersection tomorrow. Lightning could strike the pole behind his facility and do catastrophic damage to the hardware. Yours truly could take a deer through the windshield on his way to Wichita some morning. Other risks are less catastrophic. They include things like amateurish behaviors by maintainers of the Internet highway's potholes. Perhaps some material critical to the manufacture of terabyte hard drives dries up. Or maybe the cost of keeping the lights on and the bytes herded become more than Matt can justify given his personal needs for existence. Several times a year I get an opportunity to plant new seeds of thought in the minds of fellow citizens. One of my favorites is to be standing in a long line at Panera's waiting to purchase a bagel and coffee and hear somebody in line complaining about the wait. I suggest to them that to wait in line for a much desired product is a GOOD thing. Not having to wait is a BAD thing if there is not enough business to encourage them to be open tomorrow. It goes without saying that few, if any of us, possess the talents, resources or motivation to step up and do what Matt does. At last count, there were about 1600 individuals who subscribe to this List [Aeroelectric-List]. . . certainly many more make up the population of subscribers to all of the Lists on Matronics. A few years back, Matt was besieged by legal trials and tribulations over the naming of his products . . . seems somebody claimed ownership of the words 'scan' and/or 'scanner' . . . We here on the AeroElectric-List perceived a risk to Matt's operations and came up with several thousands of dollars to contribute to his defense fund. We need make no greater 'investment' in Matt's operations now than it takes to stand in a line for a Quarter-Pounder Combo . . . or a fist full of pencils. You and I can have no more positive influence over the manufacture of pencils and hard drives than to continue to purchase such things and encourage those with the time, talent and resources to continue doing what they do best. Let's contribute to the comfortable maintenance of this service which is probably more valuable than we know. Just a little bit from thousands of us on the Matronics Lists can make a big difference. Bob . . ." Please take a minute to make your Contribution today: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Or, drop a personal check in the mail to: Matt Dralle / Matronics 581 Jeannie Way Livermore CA 94550 USA Thank you for your support! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List and Forum = (And Get Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!)http://www.matrtp://forums.matronics.com/" target=_blank>http://forums.matronics.com/ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Subject: Jim's Hyde
Date: Nov 26, 2013
I'm guessing that Matt Dralle won't be getting a Christmas card from Jim Hy de this year or Bob Nuckolls. I also would assume that Matt has already removed Jim from this list for hi s eloquent all-caps post. As for the rest of you Infidels, A very Happy & Blessed Thanksgiving to y ou all! Mike C. in Ohio ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: flop latch
From: "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Nov 26, 2013
As usual, opinions will vary. Scout had latches for the flop but I never latched them. The flop never bounces while taxiing (at least not that I ever noticed), and it never lifts in flight... but then again I can't remember ever going inverted or pulling negative Gs. I removed the latches, which were simple brass slides from the hardware store, but it is undoubtedly more secure to latch the flop. -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=414199#414199 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Jim's Hyde
From: "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Nov 26, 2013
For as long as I've been on this list (15 years-?), this is the first time I can remember seeing that type of outburst from anyone on the Piet list. I know tempers have flared from time to time and people have come and gone for various reasons, but by and large this is a very decent and emotionally stable group. I know some irascible builders though, and that doesn't detract from their skills, ingenuity, or enthusiasm for the Pietenpol. So, let's don't tack Jim's hide to the wall just yet, please. -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=414202#414202 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ray Krause <raykrause(at)frontiernet.net>
Subject: Re: To Flop, or Not To Flop, That is the Question
Date: Nov 26, 2013
Jack, Thanks for the good word, but it may not be deserved. The cut out is to get at the rudder pedals and brake linkages. There is no way I will be able to get to them from the cockpit. There is a nice SS cover secured by the ever-present aircraft hinges. I figure there should be enough room behind/below the engine to get in there. If not, the engine is only secured by four bolts! With no electrical, there's not many wires to remove. We will see if the hatch was a waste of time. Thanks, Ray Krause Building SkyScout Sent from my iPad > On Nov 26, 2013, at 3:48 AM, "Jack" wrote: > > > Ray beautiful work. What is the cut-out for? > > Jack Textor > West Des Moines, IA > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ray Krause > Sent: Sunday, November 24, 2013 11:31 AM > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: To Flop, or Not To Flop, That is the > Question > > Sure wish I were 41, but then I would still be working, not playing with my > toys! Gee, 30 years younger! Can't even remember all the things I could do > then, probably better that way. > > My flop on SkyScout is just as wide as the center section, a mistake. On the > plans it is wider, but more complicated to build. Wish I would have followed > the plans more closely. Bernard was only about 30 when he designed it, what > a smart, forward looking guy! > > Ray Krause > SkyScout coming along.. > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 26, 2013
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Re: Jim's Hyde
Jim, Please tone down your outbursts. They are really quite unprofessional, childish, unwarranted, and border on offensive. I have had a List Fund Raiser every year for the last 15+ years and I have promoted it in exactly the same way each year during the month of November. It's nothing new. It's simply my way of funding the operation. Below is an excerpt from the Pietenpol-List FAQ page, <http://www.matronics.com/ftp/Archives/Pietenpol-List.FAQ>http://www.matron ics.com/ftp/Archives/Pietenpol-List.FAQ Please refrain from profanity and personal attacks against me, or anyone else for that matter, on the List. Further indiscretion will require permanent blocking of your email address from posting. Matt Dralle Matronics Email List & Forum Administrator ********************************** *** List Support Contributions *** ********************************** The Matronics Lists are run *completely* through the support of it members. You won't find any PopUpAds, flashing Banner ads, or any other form of annoying commercialism on either the Email Messages or the List web pages associated with the Matronics Email Lists. Every year during November I run a low-key, low-pressure "Fund Raiser" where, throughout the month, I ask List members to make a Contribution in any amount with which they are comfortable. I will often offer free gifts with certain contribution levels during the Fund Raiser to increase the participation. The gifts are usually donated by companies that are themselves List members. Your Contributions go directly to supporting the operation of the Lists including the high-speed, business-class Internet connection, server system hardware and software upgrades, and to partially offset the many many hours I spend running, maintaining, upgrading, and developing the variety of services found here. Generally Contributions range from $20 to $100 and are completely voluntary and non-compulsory. I ask only that if person enjoys the Lists and obtains value from them, that they make a Contribution of equal magnitude. Contributions are accepted throughout the year, and if you've just subscribed, feel free to make a Contribution when you've settled in. The website for making SSL Secure Contributions is listed below. There are a variety of payment methods including Visa and MasterCard, PayPal, and sending a personal check. If you enjoy and value the List, won't you make a Contribution today to support its continued operation? http://www.matronics.com/contributions Thank you! Matt Dralle Email List Administrator At 10:39 AM 11/26/2013 Tuesday, you wrote: >who is this pencil salesman and it aint no outburst. if you got as many e mails from this guy asking for money you would be sick of him to. do you have any idea who he is? > > >On Tuesday, November 26, 2013 12:37 PM, jim hyde wrote: >I have no idea who this matt guy is. all I know is that he keeps sending me e mails wanting money. he must be like a jesus freak guy like a bill graham. I don't appreciate some panhandler finding my e mail address and asking for money. im just building a fucking pietenpol and have no interest in any thing else. who is this guy? why is he selling pencils on this site? the last pencils I bought came from a drunk indian on the street Glendale, az and I didn't care where he got them. I get this long e mail, so I read it and it has nothing to do with building my plane so I wasted time that could have been used building a second wing. why would I be banned? all im doing is on here to get info on building the plane. what little money I have is needed to build the fucking plane. I aint giving nothing to a pencil salesman. if I need a pencil ill steal it from work. > >jim hyde > > >On Tuesday, November 26, 2013 11:48 AM, Kip and Beth Gardner wrote: >Hopefully Mr. Hyde has a Dr. Jekyll somewhere in his makeup that will reassert himself at some point. > >On Nov 26, 2013, at 11:56 AM, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC] wrote: > >>I=99m guessing that Matt Dralle won=99t be getting a Christmas card from Jim Hyde this year or Bob Nuckolls. >> >>I also would assume that Matt has already removed Jim from this list for his eloquent all-caps post. >> >>As for the rest of you Infidels, A very Happy & Blessed Thanksgiving to you all! >> >>Mike C. in Ohio >> >> > Matt G Dralle | Matronics | 581 Jeannie Way | Livermore | CA | 94550 925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Jim's Hyde
From: cessna7226g(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 26, 2013
Right on! Keep up the good work -----Original Message----- From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> Sent: Tue, Nov 26, 2013 2:08 pm Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Jim's Hyde Jim, Please tone down your outbursts. They are really quiteunprofessional, chil dish, unwarranted, and border on offensive. I have had a List Fund Raiser every year for the last 15+ years and Ihave p romoted it in exactly the same way each year during the month ofNovember. It's nothing new. It's simply my way of funding theoperation. Below is an excerpt from thePietenpol-List FAQpage, http://www.matronics.com/ftp/Archives/Pietenpol-List.FAQ Please refrain from profanity and personal attacks against me, or anyoneels e for that matter, on the List. Further indiscretion willrequire permanent blocking of your email address from posting. Matt Dralle Matronics Email List & Forum Administrator ********************************** *** List Support Contributions *** ********************************** The Matronics Lists are run *completely* through the supportof it member s. You won't find any PopUpAds, flashing Banner ads, or anyother form of annoying commercialism on either the Email Messages or theList web pages associated with the Matronics Email Lists. Every year during November I run a low-key, low-pressure "Fund Raiser" where,throughout the month, I ask List members to make a Contribution in any amount withwhich they are comfortable. I will often offer freegifts with certain contribution levels during the Fund Raiser to increase the participation. The giftsare usually donated by companies that are themselves List members. Your Contributions go directly to supporting the operationof the Lists including the high-speed, business-class Internetconnection, server system hardware and software upgrades, and to partiallyoffset the many many hours I spend running, maintaining, upgrading, anddeveloping the variety of services found here. Generally Contributions range from $20 to $100 and arecompletely volunta ry and non-compulsory. I ask only that if person enjoysthe Lists and obtai ns value from them, that they make a Contribution of equalmagnitude. Contributions are accepted throughout the year, and ifyou've just subscribed, feel free to make a Contribution when you'vesettled in. The website for making SSL Secure Contributions is listedbelow. There a re a variety of payment methods including Visa and MasterCard,PayPal, and sending a personal check. If you enjoy and value the List, won't you make aContribution today to support its continued operation? http://www.matronics.com/contributions Thank you! Matt Dralle Email List Administrator At 10:39 AM 11/26/2013 Tuesday, you wrote: who is this pencil salesman andit aint no outburst. if you got as many e ma ils from this guy asking formoney you would be sick of him to. do you have any idea who heis? On Tuesday, November 26, 201312:37 PM, jim hyde wrote: I have no idea who this matt guy is. all I know isthat he keeps sending me e mails wanting money. he must be like a jesusfreak guy like a bill graham. I don't appreciate somepanhandler finding my e mail address and asking f or money. im justbuilding a fucking pietenpol and have no interest in any t hing else. whois this guy? why is he selling pencils on this site? the last pencils Ibought came from a drunk indian on the street Glendale, az and I didn't care where he got them. I get this long e mail, so I read it andit h as nothing to do with building my plane so I wasted time that couldhave bee n used building a second wing. why would I be banned? all imdoing is on her e to get info on building the plane. what little money Ihave is needed to b uild the fucking plane. I aint giving nothing to apencil salesman. if I nee d a pencil ill steal it from work. jim hyde On Tuesday, November 26, 201311:48 AM, Kip and Beth Gardner wrote: Hopefully Mr. Hyde has a Dr. Jekyll somewhere in hismakeup that will reasse rt himself at some point. On Nov 26, 2013, at 11:56 AM, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[VantagePartners, L LC] wrote: I=C3=A2=C2=C2=99m guessing that Matt Drallewon=C3=A2=C2=C2=99t be get ting a Christmas card from Jim Hyde this year or BobNuckolls. I also would assume that Matt has already removed Jim from this list forhis eloquent all-caps post. As for the rest of you Infidels, A very Happy & BlessedThanksgiving to yo u all! Mike C. in Ohio Matt G Dralle | Matronics | 581 Jeannie Way | Livermore | CA | 94550925-606 -1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Emailhttp://www.matronics.c om/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 26, 2013
Subject: Re: Jim's Hyde
From: Ryan Mueller <ryan(at)rmueller.org>
You're either very dense, or this is a put-on.....but it's so random to be a put-on...and who would be putting you up to it.... Matt Dralle is the gentleman that run Matronics, that provides (at no cost to you) the mailing lists where you can read about building your "f-ing Pietenpol". If you would take a moment to read and comprehend the fund-raiser emails that occasionally got sent out, or, heck, shoot for a modicum of situational awareness regarding what you are doing on the internet, you too could understand this. On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 12:39 PM, jim hyde wrote: > who is this pencil salesman and it aint no outburst. if you got as many e > mails from this guy asking for money you would be sick of him to. do you > have any idea who he is? > > > On Tuesday, November 26, 2013 12:37 PM, jim hyde > wrote: > I have no idea who this matt guy is. all I know is that he keeps > sending me e mails wanting money. he must be like a jesus freak guy like a > bill graham. I don't appreciate some panhandler finding my e mail address > and asking for money. im just building a fucking pietenpol and have no > interest in any thing else. who is this guy? why is he selling pencils on > this site? the last pencils I bought came from a drunk indian on the street > Glendale, az and I didn't care where he got them. I get this long e mail, > so I read it and it has nothing to do with building my plane so I wasted > time that could have been used building a second wing. why would I be > banned? all im doing is on here to get info on building the plane. what > little money I have is needed to build the fucking plane. I aint giving > nothing to a pencil salesman. if I need a pencil ill steal it from work. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Jim's Hyde
From: "echobravo4" <eab4(at)comcast.net>
Date: Nov 26, 2013
Obviously patience and civility are also things he has little interest in- The answer to this guys whining is to kick him off the list -------- Earl Brown I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I intended to be. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=414210#414210 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Jim's Hyde
From: "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca>
Date: Nov 26, 2013
One would hope that the explanation for all of this is that someone has hacked into Mr. Hyde's email account, and made those posts as some sort of lame prank. One would hope. If that isn't the case, the following quotation comes to mind "It is better to remain silent at the risk of being thought a fool, than to talk and remove all doubt of it." BC Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=414213#414213 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Jim's Hyde
From: "echobravo4" <eab4(at)comcast.net>
Date: Nov 26, 2013
Considering these comments are in the same tone as the email I received from the guy concerning my offer to help John Recine- There is little doubt left as far as I'm concerned -------- Earl Brown I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I intended to be. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=414214#414214 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Mario Giacummo <mario.giacummo(at)gmail.com>
Date: Nov 26, 2013
Subject: Re: Jim's Hyde
May be is the first time he use the mail.. I remember in the 87, using a mail account from MCI (internet for all was in it infancy), short and very precise messages/faxes/printed letters (you have to pay for the service, and it was close into the MCI network, not network, but like it) and the proliferation of mails account 3 o 4 years later with the ISP and universities, with messages like this one of Jim; the problem was mail was something new and difficult to work with it, there where ofenses evrywhere, lots of them by bad interpretation of the original one. But never one like this one.. i am cant beliv it it yet. I am going to work a couple of hours with the fuel tank regards Mario Giacummo 2013/11/26 Ryan Mueller > You're either very dense, or this is a put-on.....but it's so random to be > a put-on...and who would be putting you up to it.... > > Matt Dralle is the gentleman that run Matronics, that provides (at no cost > to you) the mailing lists where you can read about building your "f-ing > Pietenpol". If you would take a moment to read and comprehend the > fund-raiser emails that occasionally got sent out, or, heck, shoot for a > modicum of situational awareness regarding what you are doing on the > internet, you too could understand this. > > > On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 12:39 PM, jim hyde wrote: > >> who is this pencil salesman and it aint no outburst. if you got as many e >> mails from this guy asking for money you would be sick of him to. do you >> have any idea who he is? >> >> >> On Tuesday, November 26, 2013 12:37 PM, jim hyde >> wrote: >> I have no idea who this matt guy is. all I know is that he keeps >> sending me e mails wanting money. he must be like a jesus freak guy like a >> bill graham. I don't appreciate some panhandler finding my e mail address >> and asking for money. im just building a fucking pietenpol and have no >> interest in any thing else. who is this guy? why is he selling pencils on >> this site? the last pencils I bought came from a drunk indian on the street >> Glendale, az and I didn't care where he got them. I get this long e mail, >> so I read it and it has nothing to do with building my plane so I wasted >> time that could have been used building a second wing. why would I be >> banned? all im doing is on here to get info on building the plane. what >> little money I have is needed to build the fucking plane. I aint giving >> nothing to a pencil salesman. if I need a pencil ill steal it from work. >> >> > * > > * > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Lets all cool off
From: "bdewenter" <anonymouse(at)woh.rr.com>
Date: Nov 26, 2013
Folks, Come on, do you really think someone has not become a poser on this list? Lets all calm down a little before we retry the Salem Witches. Put your instant reaction machines to bed and ignore this poser. Your reaction is what 'it' is seeking. Bob Dewenter Dayton OH -------- Bob 'Early Builder' Dewenter Dayton OH Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=414221#414221 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Of Pencils & Airplanes [Repost From AeroElectric-List]...
From: "dgaldrich" <dgaldrich(at)embarqmail.com>
Date: Nov 26, 2013
Am I missing something??? I seem to recall a "no e-mail" option when I signed up for this Forum and as a result, the ONLY solicitation I receive from Matt is on the Forum when I check to see what's going on. This is neither onerous or offensive since I can chose to read it or not. Maybe Mr Hyde should trot on over to his grandkids house and have them explain the internet to him since he obviously hasn't a vague, foggy, notion of what it takes to maintain a functioning web site. While he's on his way, he can stop by the Apple Store and get his avionics advice from its "genius's" and Home Depot for construction tips. I truly hope that he is not the Jim Hyde that Ryan found but I fear, based on the "braniff" part of his signature, that it's true. Very sad that a person of his stature would loose his civility. Fortunately we have guys like Bill Rewey and Doc Mosher as better examples. And yes, I have contributed to Matt's fund raising efforts over the past several years and fully intend to continue. Dave Aldrich Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=414223#414223 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Lets all cool off
From: Keith <goffelectric(at)comcast.net>
Date: Nov 26, 2013
Bob, Changing the subject, I was looking through the archives and found the picture of your varnished fuselage and it's absolutely beautiful. What varnish did you use and how did you apply it. Thanks, Keith goff Sent from my iPad > On Nov 26, 2013, at 7:02 PM, "bdewenter" wrote: > > > Folks, > > Come on, do you really think someone has not become a poser on this list? > > Lets all calm down a little before we retry the Salem Witches. > > Put your instant reaction machines to bed and ignore this poser. Your reaction is what 'it' is seeking. > > Bob Dewenter > Dayton OH > > -------- > Bob 'Early Builder' Dewenter > Dayton OH > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=414221#414221 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Plans... Where to start?
From: "At30West" <boyerwood(at)gmail.com>
Date: Nov 26, 2013
I have decided to start a Piet project. Finally the kids are out of college and the planets are aligned. I am finding that there are more than the "official" plans are available. Is there any innovation or benefit to any other source of plans than from the grandson? I will be going the A65, C85 or O200 route on the engine, not the model A. Thanks in advance, Steve Boyer KBJJ Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=414230#414230 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 27, 2013
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Make Sure You're Listed! List of Contributors Coming
Soon! Dear Listers, There's just a few more days left in this year's List Fund Raiser and that means the List of Contributors (LOC) is just around the corner! In December I post a list of everyone that so generously made a Contribution to support the Lists. Its my way of publicly thanking everyone that took a minute to show their appreciation for the Lists. Won't you take minute and assure that your name is on the upcoming LOC? Tell others that you appreciate the Lists. Making a Contribution to support the Lists is fast and easy using your Visa, MasterCard, or Paypal account: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Or, drop a personal check in the mail to: Matt Dralle / Matronics 581 Jeannie Way Livermore CA 94550 I would like to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution thus far during this year's List Fund Raiser! Remember that its YOUR support that keeps these Lists running and improving! Don't forget to include a little comment about how the Lists have helped you! Thank you! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <jack(at)bedfordlandings.com>
Subject: Plans... Where to start?
Date: Nov 27, 2013
Hi Steve, Welcome to the world of Pietenpols! You will find this to be a wonderful group of people, and building your own Pietenpol to be one of the best experiences of your life. There are several "official" Pietenpol plans, including the plans published in the 1932 Flying and Glider Manual (available as a reprint from EAA), the "Improved Air Camper" plans available from Andrew Pietenpol, and the long fuselage plans and supplemental plans available from Andrew as well. I recommend buying the plans from Andrew, and get everything he has to offer. Many people build from all three versions, as I did. I used the long fuselage plans, but used the landing gear from the Flying and Glider manual, and used the Continental engine mount and 3-piece wing plans from the supplemntal plan set. Everything else was from the "Improved Air Camper" plans. You also should have at least the first two of the Tony Bingelis books, The Sportplane Builder and Sportplane Construction Techniques (better, buy the whole set of four), available from EAA. Those will tell you nearly everything you need to know to build one of these airplanes. Where are you located? Good Luck and have fun! Jack Phillips NX899JP Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of At30West Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2013 12:35 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Plans... Where to start? I have decided to start a Piet project. Finally the kids are out of college and the planets are aligned. I am finding that there are more than the "official" plans are available. Is there any innovation or benefit to any other source of plans than from the grandson? I will be going the A65, C85 or O200 route on the engine, not the model A. Thanks in advance, Steve Boyer KBJJ Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=414230#414230 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Plans... Where to start?
From: "jacktextor" <jtextor(at)thepalmergroup.com>
Date: Nov 27, 2013
Steve congratulations on your decision and commitment. You will get many opinions; I commend you on your engine choice (ducking). With the Continentals you can go long or short fuselage, I went long. The only other plans I utilize come from the Flyer and Glider Manual. If you need an engine at a fair price from one of the finest builders, contact me off list for Tom Wottreng's info. Also if you want to be included in the Piet directory, let me know and I will forward you the info. Once again congratulations. Jack Jack Textor West Des Moines, IA -------- Jack Textor West Des Moines, IA www.textors.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=414316#414316 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Lets all cool off
From: "bdewenter" <anonymouse(at)woh.rr.com>
Date: Nov 27, 2013
Keith, Thanks for the very kind words. This coming from a guy who is building an incredibly nice Piet - I saw it a Barnwell and I was very impressed with your workmanship and skill. The special love affair with varnish was more a fools errand than anything else, having spent too many hours looking at yacht interiors from the pages of Power and Motor Yacht these past 15 years. I started with good quality a 3" brush but always left tiny air bubbles (rookie I am). Experts use badger hair brushes. I now have lost count of how many coats I applied and then sanded down (or off) but I'm sure I am up to 6. I am using helmsman gloss spar urethane thinned with Mineral spirits. Through the process I found the best applicator (no bubbles, less mess) is a white foam roller on a j frame. All tools and supplies came from the Aircraft coating division of Lowes. I sanded down between coats with 320 grit non-loading sandpaper and it was a slow way to build up a finish. Later I found a special pad (a white scotch brite pad) made just for "polishing" between coats of varnish. Ii would say it has the grit of wet newspaper. TIP: use a 2" white foam roller to coat all the fuselage members. its a perfect size for the job and there is virtually no mess. I can even get inside the gussets. (see picture below) Heres a good source of info on varnishing http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/WestAdvisorView?langId=-1&storeId=11151&page=Varnishing-Tips -------- Bob 'Early Builder' Dewenter Dayton OH Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=414323#414323 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/varnish_large_298.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Of Pencils & Airplanes [Repost From AeroElectric-List]...
From: Claude Corbett <isablcorky(at)aol.com>
Date: Nov 27, 2013
Sent from my iPad > On Nov 26, 2013, at 7:33 PM, "dgaldrich" wrote: > > > Am I missing something??? I seem to recall a "no e-mail" option when I signed up for this Forum and as a result, the ONLY solicitation I receive from Matt is on the Forum when I check to see what's going on. This is neither onerous or offensive since I can chose to read it or not. > > Maybe Mr Hyde should trot on over to his grandkids house and have them explain the internet to him since he obviously hasn't a vague, foggy, notion of what it takes to maintain a functioning web site. While he's on his way, he can stop by the Apple Store and get his avionics advice from its "genius's" and Home Depot for construction tips. > > I truly hope that he is not the Jim Hyde that Ryan found but I fear, based on the "braniff" part of his signature, that it's true. Very sad that a person of his stature would loose his civility. Fortunately we have guys like Bill Rewey and Doc Mosher as better examples. > > And yes, I have contributed to Matt's fund raising efforts over the past several years and fully intend to continue. > > Dave Aldrich > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=414223#414223 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Where are Flop plans?
From: "echobravo4" <eab4(at)comcast.net>
Date: Nov 27, 2013
Hey Grant- I believe the placement of the flop is shown in the 1932 flying and glider plans But I don't think there are any details on how you build it. Seems like it would be similar to making the ailerons -------- Earl Brown I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I intended to be. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=414331#414331 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Chuck Campbell <cncampbell(at)outlook.com>
Subject: Jim's Hyde
Date: Nov 27, 2013
Matt=2C the "further indescretion" has already happened. I suggest he be b locked until an appology is sent=2C individually=2C to each list member. C Date: Tue=2C 26 Nov 2013 11:07:17 -0800 From: dralle(at)matronics.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Jim's Hyde =0A =0A Jim=2C =0A Please tone down your outbursts. They are really quite=0A unprofessional=2C childish=2C unwarranted=2C and border on offensive. =0A I have had a List Fund Raiser every year for the last 15+ years and I=0A have promoted it in exactly the same way each year during the month of=0A November. It's nothing new. It's simply my way of funding the=0A operation. =0A Below is an excerpt from the=0A Pietenpol-List FAQ=0A page=2C =0A =0A =0A http://www.matronics.com/ftp/Archives/Pietenpol-List.FAQ =0A Please refrain from profanity and personal attacks against me=2C or anyone =0A else for that matter=2C on the List. Further indiscretion will=0A require permanent blocking of your email address from posting. =0A Matt Dralle =0A Matronics Email List & Forum Administrator =0A =0A ********************************** =0A *** List Support Contributions *** =0A ********************************** =0A The Matronics Lists are run *completely* through the support=0A of it members. =0A You won't find any PopUpAds=2C flashing Banner ads=2C or any=0A other form of =0A annoying commercialism on either the Email Messages or the=0A List web pages =0A associated with the Matronics Email Lists. =0A Every year during November =0A I run a low-key=2C low-pressure "Fund Raiser" where=2C=0A throughout the month=2C =0A I ask List members to make a Contribution in any amount with=0A which they =0A are comfortable. =0A I will often offer free=0A gifts with certain contribution levels during the =0A Fund Raiser to increase the participation. The gifts=0A are usually donated =0A by companies that are themselves List members. =0A Your Contributions go directly to supporting the operation=0A of the Lists =0A including the high-speed=2C business-class Internet=0A connection=2C server =0A system hardware and software upgrades=2C and to partially=0A offset the many =0A many hours I spend running=2C maintaining=2C upgrading=2C and=0A developing the =0A variety of services found here. =0A Generally Contributions range from $20 to $100 and are=0A completely voluntary =0A and non-compulsory. I ask only that if person enjoys=0A the Lists and obtains =0A value from them=2C that they make a Contribution of equal=0A magnitude. =0A Contributions are accepted throughout the year=2C and if=0A you've just =0A subscribed=2C feel free to make a Contribution when you've=0A settled in. =0A The website for making SSL Secure Contributions is listed=0A below. There are =0A a variety of payment methods including Visa and MasterCard=2C=0A PayPal=2C and =0A sending a personal check. =0A If you enjoy and value the List=2C won't you make a=0A Contribution today to =0A support its continued operation? =0A =0A =0A http://www.matronics.com/contributions =0A Thank you! =0A Matt Dralle =0A Email List Administrator =0A =0A =0A At 10:39 AM 11/26/2013 Tuesday=2C you wrote: =0A who is this pencil salesman and=0A it aint no outburst. if you got as many e mails from this guy asking for=0A money you would be sick of him to. do you have any idea who he=0A is? =0A =0A On Tuesday=2C November 26=2C 2013=0A 12:37 PM=2C jim hyde wrote: =0A I have no idea who this matt guy is. all I know is=0A that he keeps sending me e mails wanting money. he must be like a jesus=0A freak guy like a bill graham. I don't appreciate some=0A panhandler finding my e mail address and asking for money. im just=0A building a fucking pietenpol and have no interest in any thing else. who=0A is this guy? why is he selling pencils on this site? the last pencils I=0A bought came from a drunk indian on the street Glendale=2C az and I=0A didn't care where he got them. I get this long e mail=2C so I read it and =0A it has nothing to do with building my plane so I wasted time that could=0A have been used building a second wing. why would I be banned? all im=0A doing is on here to get info on building the plane. what little money I=0A have is needed to build the fucking plane. I aint giving nothing to a=0A pencil salesman. if I need a pencil ill steal it from work. =0A =0A jim hyde =0A =0A On Tuesday=2C November 26=2C 2013=0A 11:48 AM=2C Kip and Beth Gardner =0A wrote: =0A Hopefully Mr. Hyde has a Dr. Jekyll somewhere in his=0A makeup that will reassert himself at some point. =0A On Nov 26=2C 2013=2C at 11:56 AM=2C Cuy=2C Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage=0A Partners=2C LLC] wrote: =0A I=99m guessing that Matt Dralle=0A won=99t be getting a Christmas card from Jim Hyde this year or Bob=0A Nuckolls. =0A =0A I also would assume that Matt has already removed Jim from this list for=0A his eloquent all-caps post. =0A =0A As for the rest of you Infidels=2C A very Happy & Blessed=0A Thanksgiving to you all! =0A =0A Mike C. in Ohio =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A Matt G Dralle | Matronics | 581 Jeannie Way | Livermore | CA | 94550=0A 925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email=0A =0A http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft=0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A ============0A ============0A ============0A ============0A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: list contributions and profanity
Date: Nov 27, 2013
Hello good people! I just made my contribution to help support this list which we all enjoy. As I've said many times, I seriously doubt my plane would be finished if it weren't for the help, advice and encouragement I received during the process. Thanks Matt for a job well done and for the hard work!! IF that profanity filled post was NOT some sort of hacker scenario, then PLEASE you need to seriously re-think a few things. Our basic code of behavior on this list should be the same as in public, which SHOULD eliminate profanity and ungentlemanly (womanly..) behavior. One should assume that children and young adults are reading these posts and should govern them accordingly. We should endeavor to maintain the standard of conduct that was taught and expected by Mr. Pietenpol, even though few adhere to it today. I guess if you MUST express your personal feelings (why not just bring it up personally with the "offender" and not air it in public??), then do it in a classy way and do it quickly and get on with Pietenpol related stuff. And if this was a hacker-scenario, this is a good reminder for the new year as to why we all enjoy this list so much, and what has historically set it apart ( for the most part) from others; a good-natured, welcoming, helpful, constructive, accepting and CLEAN forum. Have a blessed Thanksgiving all! Douwe ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 27, 2013
From: Jim Boyer <boyerjrb(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Plans... Where to start?
Hi Steve, Welcome to the Pietenpol site. You will find lots of help here especially f or some who are now flying their Piets. Jack Philips comments are always good as are Mike Cuys, and a bunch of othe rs. Keri Ann Prices door is good if you have any trouble getting passengers in the Piet; my wife couldn't get in without it. =C2- Go to www.westcoastpiet.com =C2- for lots of Piets both built and buildin g to look at; mine building is there (Jim Boyer) with the Keri Ann door. Cheers, Jim Boyer =C2- PS where are you located? =C2- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Chuck Campbell <cncampbell(at)outlook.com>
Subject: list contributions and profanity
Date: Nov 27, 2013
Good post=2C Douwe. I'm getting ready to make my contribution to Matt=2C a lso. All of us should. I had to wait until the end of the month to determ ine whether I would have any money left. :>) Chuck From: douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net Subject: Pietenpol-List: list contributions and profanity Date: Wed=2C 27 Nov 2013 11:31:59 -0500 =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A Hello good people!=0A =0A =0A =0A I just made my contribution to help support this list which=0A we all enjoy. As I=92ve said many times=2C I seriously doubt my plane=0A would be finished if it weren=92t for the help=2C advice and encouragement I received=0A during the process. Thanks Matt for a job well done and for the hard=0A work!!=0A =0A =0A =0A IF that profanity filled post was NOT some sort of hacker scenario=2C=0A then PLEASE you need to seriously re-think a few things. Our basic code=0A of behavior on this list should be the same as in public=2C which SHOULD=0A eliminate profanity and ungentlemanly (womanly..) behavior. One should=0A assume that children and young adults are reading these posts and should go vern=0A them accordingly. We should endeavor to maintain the standard of conduct =0A that was taught and expected by Mr. Pietenpol=2C even though few adhere to it=0A today. I guess if you MUST express your personal feelings (why not just=0A bring it up personally with the =93offender=94 and not air it in=0A public??)=2C then do it in a classy way and do it quickly and get on with =0A Pietenpol related stuff.=0A =0A =0A =0A And if this was a hacker-scenario=2C this is a good reminder=0A for the new year as to why we all enjoy this list so much=2C and what has =0A historically set it apart ( for the most part) from others=3B a good-nature d=2C welcoming=2C=0A helpful=2C constructive=2C accepting and CLEAN forum.=0A =0A =0A =0A Have a blessed Thanksgiving all!=0A =0A =0A =0A Douwe=0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A ============0A ============0A ============0A ============0A ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 27, 2013
Subject: Re: list contributions and profanity
From: Marcus Zechini <marcus.zechini(at)gmail.com>
I sent mine!!! Thanks, Matt!!! -Zeke On Wed, Nov 27, 2013 at 11:55 AM, Chuck Campbell wr ote: > Good post, Douwe. I'm getting ready to make my contribution to Matt, > also. All of us should. I had to wait until the end of the month to > determine whether I would have any money left. :>) Chuck > > ------------------------------ > From: douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: list contributions and profanity > Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2013 11:31:59 -0500 > > > Hello good people! > > > I just made my contribution to help support this list which we all enjoy. > As I=92ve said many times, I seriously doubt my plane would be finished i f it > weren=92t for the help, advice and encouragement I received during the > process. Thanks Matt for a job well done and for the hard work!! > > > IF that profanity filled post was NOT some sort of hacker scenario, then > PLEASE you need to seriously re-think a few things. Our basic code of > behavior on this list should be the same as in public, which SHOULD > eliminate profanity and ungentlemanly (womanly..) behavior. One should > assume that children and young adults are reading these posts and should > govern them accordingly. We should endeavor to maintain the standard of > conduct that was taught and expected by Mr. Pietenpol, even though few > adhere to it today. I guess if you MUST express your personal feelings > (why not just bring it up personally with the =93offender=94 and not air it in > public??), then do it in a classy way and do it quickly and get on with > Pietenpol related stuff. > > > And if this was a hacker-scenario, this is a good reminder for the new > year as to why we all enjoy this list so much, and what has historically > set it apart ( for the most part) from others; a good-natured, welcoming, > helpful, constructive, accepting and CLEAN forum. > > > Have a blessed Thanksgiving all! > > > Douwe > > * > > ========== > _blank">www.aeroelectric.com <http://www.aeroelectric.com> > " target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com <http://www.buildersbooks.com> > ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com <http://www.homebuilthelp.com> > ="_blank">www.mypilotstore.com <http://www.mypilotstore.com> > ank">www.mrrace.com <http://www.mrrace.com> > ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > ========== > st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List < http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List> > ========== > http://forums.matronics.com > ========== > * > > * > =========== m> ldersbooks.com> .com> com> om/contribution> =========== .matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List> =========== =========== > * > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: list contributions and profanity
From: "aerocarjake" <flight.jake(at)gmail.com>
Date: Nov 27, 2013
Well said... I support Matt's work here for similar reasons. How else would a pilot from Texas and another from Georgia know to visit a guy in a garage near Seattle building the same kind of plane...!?!?!? Thanks everyone for the sense of community here...!! -------- Jake Schultz - curator, Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=414346#414346 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 27, 2013
Subject: Re: Plans... Where to start?
From: Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com>
Steve, Now for a true confession. I am a lazy and hardheaded dummy. I should have listened to this list on many things. BUY the Tony Bingelis books! I just bought the Tony Bingelis books, $89 from EAA. I wish I had followed the advice of this list and bought them earlier. They describe the processes and many details that you will be going into. It would have saved me a great deal of time. Try here for a sample of his writings: http://www.gobookee.org/sportplane-builder-tony-bingelis/ Don't be afraid to ask or say something on the list. It may seem stupid, but someone can give you a clear answer. There are a lot of good websites to look at: www.westcoastpiet.com http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/ The Buckeye Pietenpol Association The EAA site The UK Piet builders site I find it very helpful to look over other solutions to various problems. EAA has also been a good source of information Blue Skies, Steve D On Wed, Nov 27, 2013 at 10:48 AM, Jim Boyer wrote: > Hi Steve, > Welcome to the Pietenpol site. You will find lots of help here especially > for some who are now flying their Piets. > Jack Philips comments are always good as are Mike Cuys, and a bunch of > others. Keri Ann Prices door is good if you have any trouble getting > passengers in the Piet; my wife couldn't get in without it. > > Go to www.westcoastpiet.com for lots of Piets both built and building to > look at; mine building is there (Jim Boyer) with the Keri Ann door. > Cheers, > Jim Boyer > > PS where are you located? > > > * > > * > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Plans... Where to start?
From: "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Nov 27, 2013
Steve; welcome to the list, and you're now among a bunch of new friends. One thing that you may have been referring to when you said that there are several official sets of plans out there, is that there exists the parallel world of the Grega GN-1 Aircamper. Mr. Grega took Mr. Pietenpol's Air Camper design and made some changes and improvements to it to suit his idea of what the airplane should be. He also incorporated various parts and sub-assemblies from other aircraft that were readily available at the time... wings, fuel tank, landing gear, various other things from Piper Cubs. Although we consider the Grega Aircamper and the Pietenpol Air Camper to be the same breed of cat (and they are), they are not really interchangeable in all respects. If you're familiar with the Wittman Tailwind and the Nesmith Cougar, it's a similar relationship. Again, welcome to the group and fire away with questions as they arise in your planning and building process. -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=414353#414353 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Plans... Where to start?
From: "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca>
Date: Nov 27, 2013
In addition to what Oscar just said, it should be noted that the Grega GN-1 Aircamper plans are no longer offered for sale. So, while there are sets of those plans "out there", you can't actually order a set anymore. The only true source of Pietenpol Air Camper plans is the Pietenpol family, at the following website: http://community.pressenter.net/~apietenp/ Bill C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=414356#414356 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Jim's Hyde
From: "Larry Williams" <lnawms(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Nov 27, 2013
Mr. Hyde- If you are trying to become the next Top Curmudgeon, I'd suggest screening your targets more carefully. Also, adjectives you are able to use since your mother ran out of soap brand you as less credible and not worth listening to. Sorry.......keep trying. Larry (Top Curmudgeon) Williams -------- L.V.Williams XCG, XCMR,EPP USHPA, EAA, AMA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=414359#414359 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 27, 2013
From: goffelectric(at)comcast.net
Subject: Re: Lets all cool off
Bob, Thanks, and thanks for the varnish info. I want to get all of that bare woo d protected soon. Happy Thanksgiving to you and everyone on this list. =C2- Keith Goff ----- Original Message ----- From: "bdewenter" <anonymouse(at)woh.rr.com> Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2013 9:20:00 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Lets all cool off Keith, Thanks for the very kind words. =C2-This coming from a guy who is buildin g an incredibly nice Piet - I saw it a Barnwell and I was very impressed wi th your workmanship and skill. The special love affair with varnish was more a fools errand than anything else, having spent too many hours looking at yacht interiors from the pages of Power and Motor Yacht these past 15 years. I started with good quality a 3" brush but always left tiny air bubbles (ro okie I am). Experts use badger hair brushes. I now have lost count of how m any coats I applied and then sanded down (or off) but I'm sure I am up to 6 . =C2-I am using helmsman gloss spar urethane thinned with Mineral spirit s. =C2-Through the process I found the best applicator (no bubbles, less mess) is a white foam roller on a j frame. =C2-All tools and supplies cam e from the Aircraft coating division of Lowes. =C2-I sanded down between coats with 320 grit non-loading sandpaper and it was a slow way to build up a finish. =C2-Later I found a special pad (a white scotch brite pad) mad e just for "polishing" between coats of varnish. =C2-Ii would say it has the grit of wet newspaper. TIP: =C2-use a 2" white foam roller to coat all the fuselage members. =C2 -its a perfect size for the job and there is virtually no mess. =C2-I c an even get inside the gussets. (see picture below) Heres a good source of info on varnishing http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/WestAdvisorView?langId =-1&storeId=11151&page=Varnishing-Tips -------- Bob 'Early Builder' Dewenter Dayton OH Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=414323#414323 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/varnish_large_298.jpg =========== =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2--Matt Dralle, List Admin. =========== =========== MS - =========== ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 27, 2013
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Propeller Balance Weights/Location
I am guessing we all have better things going on the night before and the day of Thanksgiving, however, if someone could help me out come Friday, I can hit the (shop) floor running and balance my propeller. I fabricated my own Buzz Master type balance and am hoping to balance Friday. What I need to know: What can be used for weight? I have seen a video of holes being drilled in the hub, (wood prop.) and lead being added. How about nuts, bolts, (no heads) coins, small animals? How many different holes/weights can be used? (1,3,5...?) How big a weight hole can be drilled? (1/4", 1/2", 3/4"...?) Where can/can't these holes be located? I know not to drill between the mounting bolt holes and outter hub dia., but what about between the mounting holes? How close to the OD or ID of the hub can a weight hole be drilled? (Typical hole edge spacing?) How deep should these weight holes be drilled? I assume about half way. Greatly appriciate the intel.! If God is your co-pilot...switch seats. Michael Perez Pietenpol HINT Videos Karetaker Aero www.karetakeraero.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Leading Edge Clamp Idea
From: "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Nov 27, 2013
I thought I would shift gears a bit back toward the builders helping builders part of the forum. It is lighter in tone than recent threads and I like lighter tone! I came across this method while reading through some old issues of Sportaviation. It seems like a good idea if someone is looking for an inexpensive alternative to nail strips for holding down their leading edge while the glue dries. I don't think EAA will shoot me for passing it on, but I certainly wanted to give full credit to the source. -------- Semper Fi, Terry Hand Athens, GA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=414374#414374 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/leading_edge_clamp_idea_278.png ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: list contributions and profanity
From: "dgaldrich" <dgaldrich(at)embarqmail.com>
Date: Nov 28, 2013
Well said... It is truly unfortunate that UNcivil discourse has become the norm in our society. On this day, I'm thankful that there are a few bastions like this list that treasure civility. My contribution went in two weeks ago... Dave Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=414396#414396 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Propeller Balance Weights/Location
From: "dgaldrich" <dgaldrich(at)embarqmail.com>
Date: Nov 28, 2013
On many props, they simply add some additional paint or varnish rather than drill into the material. Very easy to add weight while it's in the balance jig. Dave Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=414397#414397 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Propeller Balance Weights/Location
From: "giacummo" <mario.giacummo(at)gmail.com>
Date: Nov 28, 2013
Is not the same kind of prop, but the procedure is the same, in page 13 it talk about balancing. attached is the manual Regards -------- Mario Giacummo Photos here: http://goo.gl/wh7M4 Little Blog : http://vgmk1.blogspot.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=414401#414401 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/r002_l_4_manual_207.pdf ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 28, 2013
Subject: Re: Propeller Balance Weights/Location
From: Marcus Zechini <marcus.zechini(at)gmail.com>
Friend says he had an RV-4 with wood prop and lead doughnut out front On Nov 28, 2013 12:14 PM, "dgaldrich" wrote: > dgaldrich(at)embarqmail.com> > > On many props, they simply add some additional paint or varnish rather > than drill into the material. Very easy to add weight while it's in the > balance jig. > > Dave > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=414397#414397 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Propeller Balance Weights/Location
From: "dwilson" <marwilson(at)charter.net>
Date: Nov 28, 2013
Not an expert on this subject but I also have slept at a Holiday Inn Express. I would suggest you get a copy of Eric Clutton's book, " Propeller Making for the Amateur." One example he demonstrates is using lead weights to correct a lateral imbalance. This may be considered when adding varnish to the leading edge of one blade and the trailing edge of the other does not correct the out of balance propeller. His book demonstrates how to balance a wood prop and how to determine where to locate the weight if necessary. Very good explanation with drawings. Good Luck! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=414425#414425 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 29, 2013
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Just Two Days Left...
Dear Listers, There are just a couple days left for this year's List Fund Raiser. If you've been putting off making a Contribution until the last minute, well, this is it! The last minute, that is... :-) There are some GREAT new gift selections to choose from this year. I personally want at least four of them! There's probably something you can't live without too! And, best of all it supports your Lists! Please remember that there isn't any sort of commercial advertising on the Lists and the *only* means of keeping these Lists running is through your Contributions during this Fund Raiser. Let's make this a "Black Friday" for the Lists! Please make a Contribution today! http://www.matronics.com/contribution Or, drop a personal check in the mail to: Matt Dralle / Matronics 581 Jeannie Way Livermore CA 94550 Thank you! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 29, 2013
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Propeller Balance Weights/Location
I'll do some more trials, but it appears that it would take a lot of extra varnish on one blade to correct the out of balance I have. The blade also has a lateral imbalance which I would like to address. I believe the book Mr. Wilson mentioned might be a great resource...I may have to put my balancing on hold until I receive this material. Thanks all. If God is your co-pilot...switch seats. Michael Perez Pietenpol HINT Videos Karetaker Aero www.karetakeraero.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: beauty shot at 25 months
From: "bdewenter" <anonymouse(at)woh.rr.com>
Date: Nov 29, 2013
Hello All, Today I FINALLY got my Piet on her own three wheels, and rolled (not slid) her out on the lawn for a few beauty shots. This is my bird after 25 months (I do have the beginnings of a center section but not worth including in the photo) Enjoy the weekend all. -------- Bob 'Early Builder' Dewenter Dayton OH Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=414526#414526 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc_0170_large_227.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: beauty shot at 25 months
From: "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Nov 29, 2013
Congrats, Bob. "Weasel One" looks great! -------- Semper Fi, Terry Hand Athens, GA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=414530#414530 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: beauty shot at 25 months
From: "John Francis" <Mrkringles(at)msn.com>
Date: Nov 29, 2013
Way to go Bob!! -------- John Francis Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=414531#414531 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: beauty shot at 25 months
From: "bdewenter" <anonymouse(at)woh.rr.com>
Date: Nov 29, 2013
Terry, Thank you for the encouragement. But remember it's only Weasel 1 when the Alpha weasel is aboard. Since I will be doing Weasel roundups more than giving rides to the little critters, it will hardly ever have the call sign Weasel 1. -------- Bob 'Early Builder' Dewenter Dayton OH Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=414532#414532 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: beauty shot at 25 months
From: airlion2(at)gmail.com
Date: Nov 29, 2013
Hey bob, it sure looks great and I love that turf runway in front of your house. Cheers, gardiner Sent from my iPad > On Nov 29, 2013, at 3:40 PM, "bdewenter" wrote: > > > Hello All, > > Today I FINALLY got my Piet on her own three wheels, and rolled (not slid) her out on the lawn for a few beauty shots. This is my bird after 25 months (I do have the beginnings of a center section but not worth including in the photo) > > Enjoy the weekend all. > > -------- > Bob 'Early Builder' Dewenter > Dayton OH > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=414526#414526 > > > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc_0170_large_227.jpg > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: beauty shot at 25 months
From: "bdewenter" <anonymouse(at)woh.rr.com>
Date: Nov 29, 2013
Gardiner, Thanks! you're too kind. Hello to Susan. -------- Bob 'Early Builder' Dewenter Dayton OH Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=414534#414534 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Corvair College 28
From: "bdewenter" <anonymouse(at)woh.rr.com>
Date: Nov 29, 2013
Hi Shelly, Thanks and happy Thanksgiving to your family from ours. I would like to make it to San Marcos in February. If for no other reason than to get to watch the Great Waldo Pepper on wide screen. Please pose some pictures on the rebuild of FBG. God bless all of our service members who go in harms way. -------- Bob 'Early Builder' Dewenter Dayton OH Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=414536#414536 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: beauty shot at 25 months
From: Goff Electric <goffelectric(at)comcast.net>
Date: Nov 29, 2013
Awesome! Looks great. Keith Sent from my iPhone On Nov 29, 2013, at 3:40 PM, "bdewenter" wrote: > > Hello All, > > Today I FINALLY got my Piet on her own three wheels, and rolled (not slid) her out on the lawn for a few beauty shots. This is my bird after 25 months (I do have the beginnings of a center section but not worth including in the photo) > > Enjoy the weekend all. > > -------- > Bob 'Early Builder' Dewenter > Dayton OH > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=414526#414526 > > > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc_0170_large_227.jpg > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Subject: beauty shot at 25 months
Date: Nov 29, 2013
Looks great, Bob! Your gear looks wider than mine...which is a good decision! Gary Boothe NX308MB -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of bdewenter Sent: Friday, November 29, 2013 12:40 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: beauty shot at 25 months --> Hello All, Today I FINALLY got my Piet on her own three wheels, and rolled (not slid) her out on the lawn for a few beauty shots. This is my bird after 25 months (I do have the beginnings of a center section but not worth including in the photo) Enjoy the weekend all. -------- Bob 'Early Builder' Dewenter Dayton OH Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=414526#414526 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc_0170_large_227.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: beauty shot at 25 months
From: "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Nov 29, 2013
Bob, Just remember that, if the AHWIC (Assistant Head Weasel In Charge) is on the flight, that would make the call sign "Weasel Two". It is really upsetting if you get it wrong. [Wink] -------- Semper Fi, Terry Hand Athens, GA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=414540#414540 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: beauty shot at 25 months
From: "aerocarjake" <flight.jake(at)gmail.com>
Date: Nov 29, 2013
That photo is awesome... Not sure how you managed to Photoshop out the snow...! -------- Jake Schultz - curator, Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=414544#414544 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 29, 2013
Subject: Fwd: glues
From: "bradandlinda tds.net" <bradandlinda(at)tds.net>
---------- Forwarded message ------ Date: Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 3:40 PM Subject: Fwd: glues I checked my notes. That composite expert was saying the only glue to use in aviation is resorcinol. I couldn't find the glue he really hated, but it was something like T33. He referenced the advisory circular 43-13. Said it was really well done. He wasn't FAA I don't think. Most people that were in the accident course, teaching it, were not FAA. Good (only): Resorcinol AC43-13 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 29, 2013
From: Glen Schweizer <glenschweizer(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Fwd: glues
Modern glue were not. Referenced because they weren't available when that AC was written. Resorcinol is great if used properly and you don't mind using a protein based adhesive that can is an excellent food for bacteria. The T88 epoxy you refers to is a very user friendly product. The only real drawback is thermal resistance.(about 160f is all it will take) test several types before you bjuild your airplane. Isn't that one of the great things about experimental aviation? ------------------------------ >---------- Forwarded message ------ >Date: Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 3:40 PM >Subject: Fwd: glues >To: Williams Brad > > >I checked my notes. That composite expert was saying the only glue to use >in aviation is resorcinol. I couldn't find the glue he really hated, but it >was something like T33. He referenced the advisory circular 43-13. Said it >was really well done. > >He wasn't FAA I don't think. Most people that were in the accident course, >teaching it, were not FAA. > > >Good (only): Resorcinol > >AC43-13 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Clif Dawson" <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Fwd: glues
Date: Nov 29, 2013
I was concerned about that when I started many years ago. Then I discovered that at 160 the strength is reduced by half. Doesn.t sound good, does it. Until you look at the numbers for the woods we use. Shear parallel to the grain for spruce is only 1120 lb, west.hemlock, 1170lb doug fir, 1140lb. In tests made by System Three they had wood failure at 1800lb but that was with Maple not spruce, etc. The tensile strength of the glue itself is 7000lb.. half that is 3500. I don't think we have to worry too much about temperature. but a lot more about getting good, clean, well wetted joints with the proper epoxy film thickness between surfaces. Also, just how many successful wood flying machines have been, and still are, out there in the sky? Clif It ain't what we don't know that gives us trouble, it's what we know that just ain't so." Josh Billings The T88 epoxy you refers to is a very user friendly product. The only real drawback is thermal resistance.(about 160f is all it will take) Glen Schweizer ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 30, 2013
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: [Please Read] - Last Official Day of List Fund Raiser!
Dear Listers, It's November 30th and that always means a couple of things. Its my birthday again; the big 50, in fact! But it also means that it's that last official day of the Matronics Email List Fund Raiser! If you been thinking about picking up one of those really nice incentive gifts now is the time to jump on it!! If you've been meaning to make a Contribution this month but have been putting it off for some reason, NOW is the time! I will be posting the List of Contributors in a few days, so you'll probably want to be known as a person that supported the Lists! I want to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution this year in support of our Lists. It is your generosity that keeps this operation running and I don't ever forget it. The List Contribution Web Site is fast and easy. Please support our habit by making your Contribution right now: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Or, by dropping a personal check in the mail to: Matt Dralle / Matronics 581 Jeannie Way Livermore CA 94550 Thank you to all in advance! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: beauty shot at 25 months
From: "gsnewsome" <newfaithkat(at)windstream.net>
Date: Nov 30, 2013
Very nice! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=414633#414633 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fwd: glues
From: "womenfly2" <Love2Fly.KAP(at)gmail.com>
Date: Nov 30, 2013
T-88 System Three Resin, Inc. Aircraft (http://www.systemthree.com/reslibrary/literature/CertWoodenAircraft.pdf) -------- Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=414634#414634 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fwd: glues
From: "GNflyer" <rayeh48(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Nov 30, 2013
Hee Hee! it reminds me of another builders list I was on for years. whenever a new builder would get on it and ask about it the glue wars as we called them started again. invariably everybody had their reasons a certain glue wasn't ny good and theirs was perfect.I kinda think we all want to think we made the right choice whether we did or not. I bet any of the ones you are recommended on here will work fine if you do the prep and follow he recommendations. ( I kinda favor buttermilk and flour myself_ : Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=414642#414642 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Bob's progress
Date: Nov 30, 2013
YEAH Bob!!! Very nice!!!! Much to be Thankful for. Douwe ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: glues
Date: Nov 30, 2013
I'd guess that a very large percentage of wood airplanes built today (does anyone build wood airplanes anymore besides us??) are being built with T-88. It is a good, airworthy and proven glue which combines user friendliness with strength, with moisture resistance, with gap-filling properties with sanding ease and with a proven track record. You would not go wrong to use it, and though there are other good glues out there, I can't think of many reasons to prefer them over a good proven epoxy. I would say fewer and fewer people are using Resorcinol these days. It is more persnickety to use and one REALLY has to be a good carpenter because it won't fill gaps, so you're joints must be VERY precise. The Bingilis books describe the different glue types pretty well, though it's getting a bit dated, he covers most of the ones out there. I personally had a bad experience with "plastic resin" glue. $.02 Douwe ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: beauty shot at 25 months
From: "bdewenter" <anonymouse(at)woh.rr.com>
Date: Nov 30, 2013
gboothe wrote: > Looks great, Bob! Your gear looks wider than mine...which is a good > decision! > > Gary Boothe > NX308MB > > > -- Gary, Thanks! I'm not sure it is wide enough. The inner "locks" needs to be slid to allow the wheel to come in enough for full 1" nut - right now only about half the threads on the nuts are doing their job. Wheels are at 56" on center now. When I move the inner locks I think I will be down to 54" - how wide is yours? I hate to think about paying another $140 to re-machine the axle, but I will if I need to Bob -------- Bob 'Early Builder' Dewenter Dayton OH Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=414651#414651 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fwd: glues
From: "dgaldrich" <dgaldrich(at)embarqmail.com>
Date: Nov 30, 2013
So here's a novel idea -- test it yourself. It's called experimental aviation for a reason. Take some scrap pieces (we ALL have scrap pieces) and glue them together in a structure similar to that on the airplane. Make up several samples and test them to destruction. If you're worried about heat degradation, bake em in a low oven for an hour or two. If you're curious about whether sanding has an affect on the joint, make up a couple using both sanded and unsanded wood and break them using the stress in the axis you're concerned about. I have personally tested resorcinol, T-88, and West System on various sanded substrates as well as on varnished pieces. There's nothing like real world data to give you confidence that it's going to hold together. The one variable you can't easily test is the affect of aging but most of the recommended glues have been in use in the marine world for decades so that should probably be a secondary issue. Dave Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=414652#414652 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: beauty shot at 25 months
From: "bdewenter" <anonymouse(at)woh.rr.com>
Date: Nov 30, 2013
aerocarjake wrote: > That photo is awesome... Not sure how you managed to Photoshop out the snow...! Jake, Thanks for the compliment. As for the snow, southern Ohio doesn't get much until January-March...Northern Ohio is another story! Don Emch loves the snow! -------- Bob 'Early Builder' Dewenter Dayton OH Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=414653#414653 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Bob's progress
From: "bdewenter" <anonymouse(at)woh.rr.com>
Date: Nov 30, 2013
[quote="douweblumberg(at)earthlin"]YEAH Bob!!! Very nice!!!! Much to be Thankful for. Douwe > [b] Thanks Douwe! Lookikng forward to seeing you again (after winter !!!) Bob -------- Bob 'Early Builder' Dewenter Dayton OH Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=414655#414655 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: beauty shot at 25 months
From: Gary Boothe <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Date: Nov 30, 2013
Mine's 52 1/2". Gear widening is scheduled for December. I can easily get another 6". More than that will be a much larger project. Gary Sent from my iPhone > On Nov 30, 2013, at 9:12 AM, "bdewenter" wrote: > > > > gboothe wrote: >> Looks great, Bob! Your gear looks wider than mine...which is a good >> decision! >> >> Gary Boothe >> NX308MB >> >> >> -- > > > Gary, > > Thanks! I'm not sure it is wide enough. The inner "locks" needs to be slid to allow the wheel to come in enough for full 1" nut - right now only about half the threads on the nuts are doing their job. Wheels are at 56" on center now. When I move the inner locks I think I will be down to 54" - how wide is yours? > > I hate to think about paying another $140 to re-machine the axle, but I will if I need to > > Bob > > -------- > Bob 'Early Builder' Dewenter > Dayton OH > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=414651#414651 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fwd: glues
From: "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Nov 30, 2013
Not trying to start something, but along the idea of testing your own... Is there any reason yellow glue isn't acceptable? I've built LOTS of furniture with it that has seen LOTS of conditions. Indoor stuff, outdoor stuff, stuff in the sun, stuff on trucks subject to vibration, stuff I load the ever living daylights out of (benches and such) and have never had a glue joint fail that was properly built and glued up. Titebond II even has lots of water proofness. Not really knowing the answer to that myself, I'm not necessarily planning to use it, but i have always wondered. I have recently found lots of great information from the boat guys on using epoxy that I really like. Boat hulls certainly see conditions rougher than I'll ever put an airplane through. I'm planning on using T88 (and am using it for some comprehensive repairs - longeron scarfing, tail post replacement, etc) but am considering using some West System stuff. Food for thought. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=414663#414663 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Winter flight
Date: Nov 30, 2013
Flew today for the first time in about seven weeks! Temps got up into the higher 40's with the wind right down the runway, so I figured "now or never". Told my friend I'd fly over his house but he asked if he could come so we met at the airport, pre-flighted her, added ten gallons at the screaming deal price of $4.95 (uggg.) shoehorned him into the front pit and taxied onto the runway. As I'm taxing to the end, I notice something next to his head in the distance. turns out to be a twin-engined spam can on some crazy long final. So I spin around and get off the runway and wait while he does a touch and go, I immediately pull back onto the runway and about three-quarters to the end, see him on a downwind! Got nowhere to go but the grass, so I pull off and wait for him again. Anyways. we then take off and she's climbing like she does with just me on a summer day. Take him down the Licking River at about 1,000 agl. I like this flight because there is nothing but flat fields along the river, so it is relaxing when I'm flying a passenger. After I cross over the high tension lines, I drop down and we work our way back at tree-top level. Then fly over our houses and say hi. Been about 45 minutes and I'm getting a bit cold. Turns out he's toastie as the cabin heater is really working. It sure ain't making any heat for me in the back. Anyways, I can tell I'm ready to land, so we head for home to find a Pitts doing taxi testing on the runway. Eventually he sees me and vacates, so I can slip her in and land directly into the ten mile headwind. Patted her on the nose, closed the hangar door and drove home. God is good! Keep building, it's worth it!! Douwe ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kip and Beth Gardner <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Fwd: glues
Date: Nov 30, 2013
Again, the main problem with most of these newer glues is that they've never been evaluated for aviation purposes. I use Titebond 3 (the nearly waterproof formulation) to glue up longbow laminations, a use that subjects the glue line to incredible compression/tension forces & have not had one come apart yet, so I'm willing to bet it's structurally strong enough for many aircraft uses, but that doesn't mean I'd use it on an aircraft without some serious testing in that application. Kip Gardner On Nov 30, 2013, at 3:51 PM, tools wrote: > > Not trying to start something, but along the idea of testing your > own... > > Is there any reason yellow glue isn't acceptable? I've built LOTS > of furniture with it that has seen LOTS of conditions. Indoor > stuff, outdoor stuff, stuff in the sun, stuff on trucks subject to > vibration, stuff I load the ever living daylights out of (benches > and such) and have never had a glue joint fail that was properly > built and glued up. Titebond II even has lots of water proofness. > > Not really knowing the answer to that myself, I'm not necessarily > planning to use it, but i have always wondered. > > I have recently found lots of great information from the boat guys > on using epoxy that I really like. Boat hulls certainly see > conditions rougher than I'll ever put an airplane through. I'm > planning on using T88 (and am using it for some comprehensive > repairs - longeron scarfing, tail post replacement, etc) but am > considering using some West System stuff. > > Food for thought. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=414663#414663 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: best primer for 4130 fuselage
From: "Pietflyer1977" <rob(at)stoinoff.com>
Date: Nov 30, 2013
I would use Stits Epoxy primer if you were going to glue your fabric to any part of it. It works the best for not lifting when the glue comes in contact with it. Also have had good luck with PPG industrial CRE epoxy primer that works good and is some tough stuff. When they mix it they can also tint it any color you want if you do not want to paint it. If no fabric is going to be glued to it I would use PPG DP90LF epoxy primer. It sprays nice and lays down smooth with no orange peel. I would go direct to clean metal with any of these. I don't know anything about the Stewart system but if you are covering with that system there glue might not affect any of these primers or any other primers. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=414671#414671 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Winter flight
From: "GNflyer" <rayeh48(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Nov 30, 2013
Cabin eat huh? I wish! I rolled mine out today too- warmed the mighty corvair up and blasted off. but I am a wimp. it was 59 at the time here but still a light jacket didn't feel like quite enough with the extra breeze coming up my legs as well.but I am sure glad I got it out and flew. like a very intelligent man once said- ( the best plane is the one that is finished and flying) well something like that anyway. mine is definitely not a show plane but it is good to be able to say I fly it. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=414672#414672 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 30, 2013
From: Glen Schweizer <glenschweizer(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: best primer for 4130 fuselage
Any epoxy(NOT THE RATTLE CAN CRAP) would be a great choice. Think about white or other very light color because its easier to inspect for cracks, rust etc. than a dark color ------------------------------ > >I would use Stits Epoxy primer if you were going to glue your fabric to any part of it. It works the best for not lifting when the glue comes in contact with it. Also have had good luck with PPG industrial CRE epoxy primer that works good and is some tough stuff. When they mix it they can also tint it any color you want if you do not want to paint it. If no fabric is going to be glued to it I would use PPG DP90LF epoxy primer. It sprays nice and lays down smooth with no orange peel. I would go direct to clean metal with any of these. I don't know anything about the Stewart system but if you are covering with that system there glue might not affect any of these primers or any other primers. > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=414671#414671 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 30, 2013
From: Glen Schweizer <glenschweizer(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Fwd: glues
Hi again. I've thought of using vinyl acetate glues as well. I spoke with an eaa tech advisor he said (screamed)NO. The reason he gave was that if ever there was moisture intrusion the glue would soften. I did however use thick CA glue for rib construction and after testing to destruction on one rib,found it to be very acceptable. As always,do your own testing. You decide. ------------------------------ > >Not trying to start something, but along the idea of testing your own... > >Is there any reason yellow glue isn't acceptable? I've built LOTS of furniture with it that has seen LOTS of conditions. Indoor stuff, outdoor stuff, stuff in the sun, stuff on trucks subject to vibration, stuff I load the ever living daylights out of (benches and such) and have never had a glue joint fail that was properly built and glued up. Titebond II even has lots of water proofness. > >Not really knowing the answer to that myself, I'm not necessarily planning to use it, but i have always wondered. > >I have recently found lots of great information from the boat guys on using epoxy that I really like. Boat hulls certainly see conditions rougher than I'll ever put an airplane through. I'm planning on using T88 (and am using it for some comprehensive repairs - longeron scarfing, tail post replacement, etc) but am considering using some West System stuff. > >Food for thought. > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=414663#414663 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fwd: glues
From: "GNflyer" <rayeh48(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Nov 30, 2013
I do not know for sure but I think Titebond may be one of the poly ethylene? glues that are like the one I had the dealings with. if so it wasn't their brand, but I was instructed that you did need to dampen one surface with water o help it set and also soak in the wood better. been quite a few years. but for sure that particular glue did hold well with a good fit-however if there was any gap it created a foam which had very little if any strength. Raymond Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=414675#414675 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Love Letters
From: "Larry Williams" <lnawms(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Nov 30, 2013
Anyone else get a personal rant from Mr. Hyde? I put his address into the spam file. Seems like there was a "Hyde" on the list years ago but it sure didn't sound like this one!! -------- L.V.Williams XCG, XCMR,EPP USHPA, EAA, AMA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=414676#414676 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kip and Beth Gardner <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Fwd: glues
Date: Nov 30, 2013
Titebond is not one of the polyethylene glues - those are the ones like Gorilla Glue, which, as you say, foam in a gap. There are some significant issues with those that make them, in my opinion, unsafe for aircraft. Titebond is an aliphatic resin glue (whatever that is), and is more related to good old Elmer's than any other glue type. Needs to be clamped properly to get a good bond, but I've used it for years in many woodworking projects & is my glue of choice if there's a reason to NOT use an epoxy. On Nov 30, 2013, at 10:24 PM, GNflyer wrote: > > I do not know for sure but I think Titebond may be one of the poly > ethylene? glues that are like the one I had the dealings with. if so > it wasn't their brand, but I was instructed that you did need to > dampen one surface with water o help it set and also soak in the > wood better. been quite a few years. but for sure that particular > glue did hold well with a good fit-however if there was any gap it > created a foam which had very little if any strength. Raymond > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=414675#414675 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Thanks to all
From: "At30West" <boyerwood(at)gmail.com>
Date: Nov 30, 2013
Thanks to all who responded to my "plans, where to start" topic. I have ordered the building manual from the Pietenpol site and will buy the plans there. Looks like it will be slow going at first! I am located in the great white north... Northern Ohio. KBJJ Steve Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=414678#414678 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 30, 2013
From: shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: best primer for 4130 fuselage
Akzo Nobel makes a great epoxy primer.- I think Aircraft spruce carries i t for about $200 for a 2 gallon kit.- They call it an "Interior" Epoxy Pr imer.- I have been using it for about 13 years at work and on my projects (I always got the expired shelf life stuff so the price was right).-It i s used on the inside skins of some comercial aircraft.-It is a little lig hter green than OD green, and is about as chemical resistant as it can get. - It is very tough stuff and even paint stripper won't hardly get it off. - I have primed a few steel fuselages, landing gears and misc. fittings, sheet metal, fiberglass, it is a great chioce for the longevity of your air plane.- The only problem is the smallest quanity is a 2 gallon kit, but i t is probably enough to do 6-7 pietenpols if mixing and spraying were well coordnated.- But even at $200/2Gal., thats only $25 per Qt.- I have nev er used the thinner, just mix it 1:1 part a, b, then mix and give it 30 min activation time and spray.=0A-=0AShad=0A-=0AP.S.-The product I use --is the Akzo/Nobel 10P4-2 base (part A), and EC117S (Part B), I am ass uming that the product from A.S.S is the same stuff.=0A=0A=0A______________ __________________=0AFrom: Glen Schweizer <glenschweizer(at)yahoo.com>=0ATo: p ietenpol-list(at)matronics.com =0ASent: Saturday, November 30, 2013 7:33 PM=0A Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: best primer for 4130 fuselage=0A=0A=0A--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Glen Schweizer =0A=0A=0A=0AAny epoxy(NOT THE RATTLE CAN CRAP) would be a great choice.- Think about white or other very light color because its easier to inspect f or cracks, rust etc. than a dark color=0A=0A=0A=0A------------------------- tenpol-List message posted by: "Pietflyer1977" =0A>=0A>I would use Stits Epoxy primer if you were going to glue your fabric to any p art of it. It works the best for not lifting when the glue comes in contact with it. Also have had good luck with PPG industrial CRE epoxy primer that works good and is some tough stuff. When they mix it they can also tint it any color you want if you do not want to paint it. If no fabric is going t o be glued to it I would use PPG DP90LF epoxy primer. It sprays nice and la ys down smooth with no orange peel. I would go direct to clean metal with a ny of these. I don't know anything about the Stewart system but if you are covering with that system there glue might not affect any of these primers or any other primers.=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>Read this topic online here:=0A> =0A>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=414671#414671=0A>=0A>=0A> ================== ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Thanks to all
From: "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com>
Date: Dec 01, 2013
Hello Steve, If you are located near Wooster, you are only about an hour and a half drive from me. I hangar at York Aerodrome, near Columbiana, Ohio (8OH4). You'd be welcome to come over and see my Piet and if the weather's good we can go for a ride. If there's still snow on the ground we'll have to put the skis on. :-) Also Frank Pavliga keeps his Piets near Alliance at Barber Field. He has the Rudolph Piet and Sky Gypsy... both well known and beautiful Piets. Feel free to give me a call if you'd likle to stop over. (330) 429-5265. Don Emch NX899DE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=414685#414685 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Love Letters
From: "echobravo4" <eab4(at)comcast.net>
Date: Dec 01, 2013
Yea, got one early on Think John R. Got one too -------- Earl Brown I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I intended to be. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=414690#414690 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Love Letters
From: Ryan Mueller <ryan(at)rmueller.org>
Date: Dec 01, 2013
Hmm.hopefully this experience doesnt turn Jim off of Pietenpols altogether; I was looking forward to seeing him at Brodhead. He would be relatively easy to find at the various highlights of the weekend: The Textors lunch: "I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT NOR DO I CARE. WHO THE F*** IS JACK TEXTOR? WHAT THE F*** IS A BRATWURST?" The fish boil: "I DONT GIVE A S*** WHERE THE FISH COMES FROM OR WHO BOILED IT AND I SURE DONT WANT TO BE HERE AND SMELL LIKE IT!" The raffle: "I have no idea who this Doc" guy is. all I know is that he keeps sending me newsletters wanting stories and pictures." Checking out the items for sale at the pavilion: who is this guy? why is he selling ribs on this picnic table? the last ribs I bought came from a drunk indian on the street Glendale, az and I didn't care where he got them. Breakfast in the chapter hangar: "all im doing is out here to get info on building the plane. what little money I have is needed to build the f****** plane. I aint giving nothing to a pancake salesman. if I need a pancake ill steal it from the Sand Burr. Cest la vie.hope everyone had a nice Thanksgiving, Ryan On Dec 1, 2013, at 9:48 AM, echobravo4 wrote: > > Yea, got one early on > Think John R. Got one too > > -------- > Earl Brown > > I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I intended to be. > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=414690#414690 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Love Letters
From: "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Dec 01, 2013
To all- Yes I did get a couple of private rants from Mr. Hyde a couple of weeks ago. Not lately, though. A try bizarre rant, indeed. Ryan- you actually made me laugh with your post. Nicely done! -------- Semper Fi, Terry Hand Athens, GA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=414698#414698 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dennis Engelkenjohn" <mushface1(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Fwd: glues
Date: Dec 01, 2013
Fine Woodworking did a comparison test years ago on various glues, not sure what year or issue, (think google if interested), but Titebond was one of the glues compared to several epoxies and it compared favorably. Only reason to not use epoxy that I can see is allergy to epoxy. Some people develop it working with epoxy grout in commercial tile applications and they break out something fierce. From then on they are not supposed to use the stuff. Dennis -----Original Message----- From: Kip and Beth Gardner Sent: Saturday, November 30, 2013 10:09 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Fwd: glues Titebond is not one of the polyethylene glues - those are the ones like Gorilla Glue, which, as you say, foam in a gap. There are some significant issues with those that make them, in my opinion, unsafe for aircraft. Titebond is an aliphatic resin glue (whatever that is), and is more related to good old Elmer's than any other glue type. Needs to be clamped properly to get a good bond, but I've used it for years in many woodworking projects & is my glue of choice if there's a reason to NOT use an epoxy. On Nov 30, 2013, at 10:24 PM, GNflyer wrote: > > I do not know for sure but I think Titebond may be one of the poly > ethylene? glues that are like the one I had the dealings with. if so it > wasn't their brand, but I was instructed that you did need to dampen one > surface with water o help it set and also soak in the wood better. been > quite a few years. but for sure that particular glue did hold well with a > good fit-however if there was any gap it created a foam which had very > little if any strength. Raymond > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=414675#414675 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Love Letters
From: airlion2(at)gmail.com
Date: Dec 01, 2013
Hey, this pietenpol site is going downhill fast, how do we get rid of jerks, my wife will not sign on anymore. Gardiner Sent from my iPad > On Dec 1, 2013, at 11:45 AM, Ryan Mueller wrote: > > > Hmm.hopefully this experience doesnt turn Jim off of Pietenpols altogether; I was looking forward to seeing him at Brodhead. He would be relatively easy to find at the various highlights of the weekend: > > The Textors lunch: "I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT NOR DO I CARE. WHO THE F*** IS JACK TEXTOR? WHAT THE F*** IS A BRATWURST?" > > The fish boil: "I DONT GIVE A S*** WHERE THE FISH COMES FROM OR WHO BOILED IT AND I SURE DONT WANT TO BE HERE AND SMELL LIKE IT!" > > The raffle: "I have no idea who this Doc" guy is. all I know is that he keeps sending me newsletters wanting stories and pictures." > > Checking out the items for sale at the pavilion: who is this guy? why is he selling ribs on this picnic table? the last ribs I bought came from a drunk indian on the street Glendale, az and I didn't care where he got them. > > Breakfast in the chapter hangar: "all im doing is out here to get info on building the plane. what little money I have is needed to build the f****** plane. I aint giving nothing to a pancake salesman. if I need a pancake ill steal it from the Sand Burr. > > Cest la vie.hope everyone had a nice Thanksgiving, > > Ryan > > >> On Dec 1, 2013, at 9:48 AM, echobravo4 wrote: >> >> >> Yea, got one early on >> Think John R. Got one too >> >> -------- >> Earl Brown >> >> I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I intended to be. >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=414690#414690 > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fwd: glues
From: "dgaldrich" <dgaldrich(at)embarqmail.com>
Date: Dec 01, 2013
Just found this document from System Three, the makers of T-88. Interesting reading... http://www.systemthree.com/reslibrary/literature/certwoodenaircraft.pdf Dave Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=414718#414718 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Thanks to all
From: "aviken" <aviken(at)windstream.net>
Date: Dec 01, 2013
Hi Steve... I just started my project, So Im only a few days work ahead of you. If I can help , just give me a holler. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=414721#414721 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fwd: glues
From: "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Dec 01, 2013
Douwe; as to your question about anyone else building wooden airplanes besides us, the only other group I'm familiar with are the KR builders. The KR uses a wood structure with foam infill and fiberglass skin. It also uses wood spars and other framing members. The discussions on the KRNet are quite similar to ours, with T88 predomindating but various other adhesives being used for the wooden parts. West Systems seems to be mentioned frequently. I, too, wonder about Titebond III. It is an excellent adhesive, proven and tested waterproof, and if I understand the product literature correctly it has a shear strength of 4000 psi at room temperature, vs the listed shear strength for T88 of 2500 psi at 67F. They both lose strength at elevated temperatures (150F or so). Still, as Clif pointed out, the glue strength is at least as good as the wood strength at those temperatures. There are many benefits to using Titebond... it's a one-part adhesive that works well at most shop temperatures, is widely available (I've never seen T88 in a hardware store, but I see Titebond II and III in most such stores), dries clear, and is easy to clean up. -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=414722#414722 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: New Builder of the Pietenpol
From: "regreen1954" <rgreen4(at)sbcglobal.net>
Date: Dec 01, 2013
Just getting going on my Pietenpol. Planning the extended fuselage and thinking about other options in terms of gear and engines (I have some time!). Will be building the tail group first and noted on the plans that cast aluminum hinges were preferred. Is there a source for them? Best regards, Rich -------- Rich Green, CFI Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=414724#414724 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: New Builder of the Pietenpol
From: "echobravo4" <eab4(at)comcast.net>
Date: Dec 02, 2013
Vi Kapler makes them (I think he is still making them) Here's his info- Vitalis Kapler 507-288-3322 1033 Forest Hills Dr. SW Rochester, MN 55902 -------- Earl Brown I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I intended to be. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=414732#414732 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kip and Beth Gardner <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Fwd: glues
Date: Dec 02, 2013
I think it was Dave Aldrich (?) who commented that the only reason he could think of to not use epoxy was if you were allergic. Actually, I find a number of (non aircraft) situations where Titebond is the better choice. For example, If I'm edge-joining two long boards to make a table top or something similar, it's much easier to work with than epoxy (just run the bead & join), has a longer working time than most epoxies, and cleans up easier, which makes later finishing better. Just one example, there are others. I still like epoxy, but there are some applications where I just find it a pain to work with and Titebond simplifies things. Kip Gardner On Dec 1, 2013, at 11:29 PM, taildrags wrote: > > > > Douwe; as to your question about anyone else building wooden > airplanes besides us, the only other group I'm familiar with are the > KR builders. The KR uses a wood structure with foam infill and > fiberglass skin. It also uses wood spars and other framing > members. The discussions on the KRNet are quite similar to ours, > with T88 predomindating but various other adhesives being used for > the wooden parts. West Systems seems to be mentioned frequently. > > I, too, wonder about Titebond III. It is an excellent adhesive, > proven and tested waterproof, and if I understand the product > literature correctly it has a shear strength of 4000 psi at room > temperature, vs the listed shear strength for T88 of 2500 psi at > 67F. They both lose strength at elevated temperatures (150F or > so). Still, as Clif pointed out, the glue strength is at least as > good as the wood strength at those temperatures. There are many > benefits to using Titebond... it's a one-part adhesive that works > well at most shop temperatures, is widely available (I've never seen > T88 in a hardware store, but I see Titebond II and III in most such > stores), dries clear, and is easy to clean up. > > -------- > Oscar Zuniga > Medford, OR > Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" > A75 power > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=414722#414722 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fwd: glues
From: "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca>
Date: Dec 02, 2013
So, the old "glue discussion" comes up once again. Not sure why it keeps reoccurring. Do a quick search of the archives and see how many times this has been rehashed. The short answer (not that there actually was a question posed) is that T-88 (or equivalent 2-part epoxy) is pretty much the standard adhesive for construction of wooden aircraft today. It is pretty simple to use (1:1 mixing, by volume, has a decent pot life, and cures overnight.) Polyurethane glues (Gorilla Glue and the like) are NOT recommended, so don't use them to build your aircraft. Titebond III appears to be a very good wood adhesive, and may well prove to be a satisfactory glue for building a wooden aircraft, but it is so-far unproven (in aircraft structures). There are no tabletops in a Piet. Regarding the so-called expensive nature of T-88, you'll only need about $100 worth to build the whole aircraft. Not a significant amount in the overall picture. Bill C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=414736#414736 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kip and Beth Gardner <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Fwd: glues
Date: Dec 02, 2013
I think it keeps coming up because the 'official' information is so dated (thanks FAA), and we have so few real choices that are accepted to be safe. You may find T-88 easy to work with, I generally consider all epoxies a pain to one degree or another and use them mainly due to "Hobson's choice". Kip Gardner On Dec 2, 2013, at 10:01 AM, Bill Church wrote: > > > > So, the old "glue discussion" comes up once again. Not sure why it > keeps reoccurring. Do a quick search of the archives and see how > many times this has been rehashed. > The short answer (not that there actually was a question posed) is > that T-88 (or equivalent 2-part epoxy) is pretty much the standard > adhesive for construction of wooden aircraft today. It is pretty > simple to use (1:1 mixing, by volume, has a decent pot life, and > cures overnight.) Polyurethane glues (Gorilla Glue and the like) > are NOT recommended, so don't use them to build your aircraft. > Titebond III appears to be a very good wood adhesive, and may well > prove to be a satisfactory glue for building a wooden aircraft, but > it is so-far unproven (in aircraft structures). There are no > tabletops in a Piet. > Regarding the so-called expensive nature of T-88, you'll only need > about $100 worth to build the whole aircraft. Not a significant > amount in the overall picture. > Bill C. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=414736#414736 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Chuck Campbell <cncampbell(at)outlook.com>
Subject: Re: Love Letters
Date: Dec 02, 2013
Seems there should be some legal action that could be taken. C > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Love Letters > From: airlion2(at)gmail.com > Date: Sun=2C 1 Dec 2013 17:08:07 -0500 > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > > > Hey=2C this pietenpol site is going downhill fast=2C how do we get rid of jerks=2C my wife will not sign on anymore. Gardiner > > > Sent from my iPad > > > On Dec 1=2C 2013=2C at 11:45 AM=2C Ryan Mueller wro te: > > > > > > Hmm=85.hopefully this experience doesn=92t turn Jim off of Pietenpols a ltogether=3B I was looking forward to seeing him at Brodhead. He would be r elatively easy to find at the various highlights of the weekend: > > > > The Textor=92s lunch: "I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT NOR DO I CARE. WHO THE F*** IS JACK TEXTOR? WHAT THE F*** IS A BRATWURST?" > > > > The fish boil: "I DONT GIVE A S*** WHERE THE FISH COMES FROM OR WHO BOI LED IT AND I SURE DONT WANT TO BE HERE AND SMELL LIKE IT!" > > > > The raffle: "I have no idea who this =93Doc" guy is. all I know is that he keeps sending me newsletters wanting stories and pictures." > > > > Checking out the items for sale at the pavilion: =93who is this guy? wh y is he selling ribs on this picnic table? the last ribs I bought came from a drunk indian on the street Glendale=2C az and I didn't care where he go t them.=94 > > > > Breakfast in the chapter hangar: "all im doing is out here to get info on building the plane. what little money I have is needed to build the f*** *** plane. I aint giving nothing to a pancake salesman. if I need a pancak e ill steal it from the Sand Burr.=94 > > > > C=92est la vie=85.hope everyone had a nice Thanksgiving=2C > > > > Ryan > > > > > >> On Dec 1=2C 2013=2C at 9:48 AM=2C echobravo4 wrote: > >> > >> > >> Yea=2C got one early on > >> Think John R. Got one too > >> > >> -------- > >> Earl Brown > >> > >> I may not have gone where I intended to go=2C but I think I have ended up where I intended to be. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Read this topic online here: > >> > >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=414690#414690 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 02, 2013
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Thanks to all
I am doing my flight training out of SkyPark Steve and use BJJ quite often. If God is your co-pilot...switch seats. Michael Perez Pietenpol HINT Videos Karetaker Aero www.karetakeraero.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Steel-tube fuselage update - rudder cable routing...
From: "aerocarjake" <flight.jake(at)gmail.com>
Date: Dec 02, 2013
Hello good Piet-ple, Hope everyone had a great Thanksgiving holiday...! The break gave me a chance to make progress on my rudder cable routing. I am using rudder pedals (with toe brakes) instead of a rudder bar so there may be times when I inadvertently press on BOTH pedals at once - such as a situation of hard braking. With a rudder bar, pressing with both feet at once would not cause a significant increase in tension on the rudder cables (or the rudder hinges), yet with pedals I needed to do something to address this issue. My solution was to fabricate a rudder cable "pivot bar" in the aft fuselage that is designed to take the loads if I press on both pedals at once. This design should also allow the cables from the pivot bar aft to the rudder horn be maintained at a constant tension. This is the simplest modification I could think of while still keeping with the intent of Bernard's original design. In the photos you can see orange string strung (fun to say that) where the cables will be. I superimposed a RED line where the cable runs from the pedal to the pivot bar, and a GREEN line from the pivot bar aft to the rudder horn. As with all of these modifications i ma making to the design, a caveat is that I have not yet completed or flown my plane so everything is subject to change(!) I drop the parts off to the welder in a few hours... funnn stufff -------- Jake Schultz - curator, Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=414742#414742 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/rudder_cable_routing_3_143.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/rudder_cable_routing_2_141.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/rudder_cable_routing_1_459.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Steel-tube fuselage update - rudder cable routing...
From: "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Dec 02, 2013
An elegant solution, Jake! I don't believe I've seen this setup on another Piet before. Have you thought about rudder stops, and will those be at the pedals somewhere (either cockpit)? I ask this because I very recently fabricated new stops for my rudder bar, under the front seat. -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=414747#414747 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Steel-tube fuselage update - rudder cable routing...
From: "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org>
Date: Dec 02, 2013
I just love the smell of steel tube in the morning. Yes I really mean it. It looks good Jake. -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=414748#414748 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Steel-tube fuselage update - rudder cable routing...
From: "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Dec 02, 2013
Since you steel-tube builders are here, I have a question. I have some 4130 tubing (for another project) that has gone from Oregon to Texas, spent 9 years down there in the humidity, and is now back in Oregon and now shows some surface rust. Do you go ahead and cut, weld, and fabricate your part or assembly with the tubing as-is and then bead blast the whole thing when it's done, or do you clean the material before starting to work on it? The corrosion would be inside the tubing as well as outside, so if an assembly is made, the corrosion could be trapped inside. [And just to pre-empt the comment that I already know Mikee is going to make, I don't have Tony's books here at work with me or I would look there first!] -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=414750#414750 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Steel-tube fuselage update - rudder cable routing...
From: "aerocarjake" <flight.jake(at)gmail.com>
Date: Dec 02, 2013
Yes I am thinking about rudder stops. I have some thoughts about adding a part to the pivot bar but I want to get it all welded up and working before I do anything rash....! (one step at a thyme...!) -------- Jake Schultz - curator, Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=414751#414751 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Quick Intro - Georgia
From: "gsnewsome" <newfaithkat(at)windstream.net>
Date: Dec 03, 2013
I recently joined the email lists and must admit I'm fascinated with this design. Although it will not meet my needs, I still enjoy seeing the variations in the final products built. I would like to see one of these up close. Thanks, Greg Newsome (Savannah, GA) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=414768#414768 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Vi's Piet
Date: Dec 03, 2013
Hey, I saw Vi's plane about four years ago and it was finished, but he hadn't flown it yet. Since then I have heard absolutely nothing about it or seen any pictures of it flying or otherwise. Does anyone know "the dish" on this plane and if it's flown? And if it has flown how is it doing? It's a beautiful, Ford powered, to the plans plane and I think it would good to know about it. Douwe ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Steel-tube fuselage update - rudder cable routing...
From: "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org>
Date: Dec 03, 2013
Good morning Oscar, Good question, If you only have light surface rust then you will not have any problem using the tubing. If there is any pitting due to the rust I wouldn't consider using those pieces. I could only guess that the rust would only be on the outside due to all the handling over the years. If you have some light rust on the inside I would try running a round wire brush or scotch brite through it with a drill. This might be better done after you have cut them to length. (shorter pieces) Then get some linseed oil on the inside. Before any welding, be sure to clean the tube joints real good first. You could then sand or sand blast the rest of the structure before priming and/or painting. Silica sand has worked good for me. What did Uncle Tony say? -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=414772#414772 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Quick Intro - Georgia
From: "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Dec 03, 2013
Greg, There may be Pietenpols closer, but less than 2 hours north of you is Barnwell, South Carolina. P.F. Beck and Don Harper have 2 great examples of well built Pietenpols. You can contact P.F., and I am sure he would be happy to have you come up, and will even give you a ride. P.F. is the consummate southern gentleman who, I m sure, would be happy to get with you. -------- Semper Fi, Terry Hand Athens, GA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=414781#414781 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Steel-tube fuselage update - rudder cable routing...
From: "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Dec 03, 2013
Scott: don't start me to lyin' ;o) I am ashamed to say that I haven't looked at the Sportplane Builder books to see what Uncle Tony says about preparing steel tubing for fabrication, but I promise that I will ;o) -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=414789#414789 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Vi's Piet
From: "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Dec 03, 2013
Douwe; go back to Nov. 22 when I posted a thread called "Friday's mystery Piet". There are some pictures of Vi's beautiful airplane there. I assume that it's flying. -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=414790#414790 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Steel-tube fuselage update - rudder cable routing...
From: "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org>
Date: Dec 03, 2013
Oscar, I must confess. I have uncle Tony's books too but have not cracked them open in about twenty years. I don't even know if he covers rusty 4130. I only asked because I thought you may have already looked. See Mikee, we are trying but we are not good at follow through without your nudge. :) -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=414793#414793 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 03, 2013
Subject: Re: Steel-tube fuselage update - rudder cable routing...
From: Ryan Mueller <ryan(at)rmueller.org>
Dan must be busy today, so I'll pick up the slack: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=tony+bingelis+rusted+tubing On Tue, Dec 3, 2013 at 11:49 AM, AircamperN11MS wrote: > Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org> > > Oscar, > > I must confess. I have uncle Tony's books too but have not cracked them > open in about twenty years. I don't even know if he covers rusty 4130. I > only asked because I thought you may have already looked. > > See Mikee, we are trying but we are not good at follow through without > your nudge. :) > > -------- > Scott Liefeld > Flying N11MS since March 1972 > Steel Tube > C-85-12 > Wire Wheels > Brodhead in 1996 > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=414793#414793 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Quick Intro - Georgia
From: Fastnaught John <fastnaught(at)windstream.net>
Date: Dec 03, 2013
Greg, Im in Gilbert, SC which is 25 miles west of Columbia. Im just of Rte 20. I would be honored if you would like to visit. I bought a project and have been working on it to date. I should be covering in January. The frame is all done. Ford powered and I just finished rebuilding it. Stop by anytime. jack 803-414-2235 On Dec 3, 2013, at 11:03 AM, jarheadpilot82 wrote: > > Greg, > > There may be Pietenpols closer, but less than 2 hours north of you is Barnwell, South Carolina. P.F. Beck and Don Harper have 2 great examples of well built Pietenpols. You can contact P.F., and I am sure he would be happy to have you come up, and will even give you a ride. > > P.F. is the consummate southern gentleman who, I m sure, would be happy to get with you. > > -------- > Semper Fi, > > Terry Hand > Athens, GA > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=414781#414781 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Steel-tube fuselage update - rudder cable routing...
From: "Catdesigns" <Catdesigns(at)att.net>
Date: Dec 03, 2013
He speaks "Sometimes we builders will find a piece or two of 4130 steel that has been lying around for years . . . and it shows it in its surfaces which may have varying degrees of rust, scratches and even pit marks. There is no harm in using the material although it should be cleaned up first to determine its acceptability before cutting out parts. This precaution will serve to assure you that you will not have to discard a part after you have spent much time making it. Rust will sand off easy enough provided that corrosion has not eaten into the metal to any degree. All rust must be removed, otherwise the residual will keep working away on the metal even after it has been primed and painted. Sanding the surfaces to a nice shiny appearance may or may not prove successful in removing all of the rust. Although the new shiny surfaces might look perfect, the grain of the metal will still have tiny little imbedded specks of rust invisible to the (if you will pardon the immodesty) naked eye. To be sure, treat steel surfaces with a metal conditioner to neutralize the rust. A product similar to Osphos or any of those put out by DuPont and other paint companies may be used to take care of that problem. (Be sure to read and follow instructions.)" Tony Bingelis -------- Chris Sacramento, CA WestCoastPiet.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=414798#414798 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Subject: steel tubing and what you're getting for Christmas
Date: Dec 03, 2013
I can see that many of you will not be on my Uncle Tony's Christmas card li st this year. He'll be sending lumps of coal and old fruitcake for your stockings hung by the fire. :) ! [cid:image001.png(at)01CEF031.623DBCC0] ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Steel-tube fuselage update - rudder cable routing...
From: "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org>
Date: Dec 03, 2013
Along the same lines here. When I was rebuilding/recovering my airplane I considered powder-coating my fuselage. I called Kitfox to see if they knew how much weight a Kitfox gained when powder-coated. They said it was abut 12 lbs. It seemed like a lot to me. I also asked them about making repairs and seeing cracks once it was applied. They said both are more difficult to do when powder-coated verses primer and paint. I was also told that they at one time had a fuselage rust from the inside out after being powder-coated. What caused that I asked. The answer was that it started rusting before the powder-coating was applied. They waited too long after the prep work was done. After learning this I used the Poly-fiber two part epoxy primer and haven't regretted it at all. So yes, it is very important to make sure ALL rust has been neutralized before you prime or powder-coat. I reckon that you guys building with wood need to look out for mold. Fun stuff to think about. -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=414805#414805 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Greg Cardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Vi's Piet
Date: Dec 03, 2013
Yes, it has flown. Vi was working out some ignition issues and as of last August he had about 10 hours on the plane. Greg Cardinal ----- Original Message ----- From: Douwe Blumberg To: pietenpolgroup Sent: Tuesday, December 03, 2013 8:14 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Vi's Piet Hey, I saw Vi's plane about four years ago and it was finished, but he hadn't flown it yet. Since then I have heard absolutely nothing about it or seen any pictures of it flying or otherwise. Does anyone know "the dish" on this plane and if it's flown? And if it has flown how is it doing? It's a beautiful, Ford powered, to the plans plane and I think it would good to know about it. Douwe ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Subject: steel tubing and what you're getting for Christmas
Date: Dec 03, 2013
What's worse? Having Uncle Tony's books and not using them?...or not having them at all? Gary Boothe NX308MB From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC] Sent: Tuesday, December 03, 2013 11:10 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: steel tubing and what you're getting for Christmas I can see that many of you will not be on my Uncle Tony's Christmas card list this year. He'll be sending lumps of coal and old fruitcake for your stockings hung by the fire. :) ! ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Vi's Piet
From: "dwilson" <marwilson(at)charter.net>
Date: Dec 03, 2013
I was just over to Vi's today. We were examining a couple of our wood carvings ( propellers. ) Vi does have a few hours on his new ship. He reports that he has a problem with the carb. He stated that it idles to fast ( 850 RPM ), and that creates a problem during landing because he tends to float in ground effect when he would rather be sticking a three pointer. He is also working on the installation of a starter for the Model A Ford. Plans to use a motorcycle battery and figures he will find a place to put it. Vi is now 86 years old and says he would like to stick around at least until 90. Knees hurt a little bit, has a problem with a heart valve, doesn't like to sit around and watch soap operas so he will just stay busy working on all things Pietenpol. Sure is a nice guy to have in your back yard. Dan Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=414825#414825 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Turnbuckles for sale?
From: Ray Krause <raykrause(at)frontiernet.net>
Date: Dec 03, 2013
Does anyone have some extra turnbuckles they won't be using? I am short a few, especially smaller ones for the stabilizers. Thanks, Ray Krause Building SkyScout Sent from my iPad ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Turnbuckles for sale?
From: "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Dec 03, 2013
Ray; let me see what I have in the hangar. I bought some earlier this year, but they may be too small for what you need. Get with me off-list to let me know how many you need and what size/configuration. -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=414827#414827 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: turnbuckles
Date: Dec 04, 2013
I'll ck the hangar too, but it'll be a few days before I can get out there. Douwe ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 04, 2013
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Turnbuckles for sale?
Ray, I might be able to help you out. I have a bunch of spare "things" in stock left over from years of building and scrounging. What do you need? If God is your co-pilot...switch seats. Michael Perez Pietenpol HINT Videos Karetaker Aero www.karetakeraero.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: First snow
Date: Dec 04, 2013
From: <brian.e.jardine@l-3com.com>
We got our first good snow storm in Utah...... Looks like the poor orphan GN-1 got left out for the winter. Brian SLC-UT ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Barry Davis" <bed(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: First snow
Date: Dec 04, 2013
Cool! I don't remember seeing the specs in the plans for "snow load" LOL Barry NX973BP -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of brian.e.jardine@l-3com.com Sent: Wednesday, December 04, 2013 9:40 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: First snow We got our first good snow storm in Utah...... Looks like the poor orphan GN-1 got left out for the winter. Brian SLC-UT ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Helmets
From: John Fastnaught <fastnaught(at)windstream.net>
Date: Dec 04, 2013
I'm about to make a leather helmet and goggles purchase and would like to exploit the vast knowledge that the members of this list have. I have David Clark headsets


November 17, 2013 - December 04, 2013

Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-nb