Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-nf

February 02, 2014 - February 24, 2014



      > > 85 and O-200. Takeoff, Feet per minute and cruise etc.....
      > > I learned how to fly behind a 65 and sure, you do takeoff a few seconds
      > > later then normal. But then again nobody builds a Piet to get anywhere 
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________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 02, 2014
From: Keith <pietenpol(at)hodgehome.org.uk>
Subject: Re: A-65
And from someone who is building a rather heavy Pietenpol, at all costs add nothing and at all stages in the build consider using only the lightest parts available as I was told some time ago that every ten pounds you add to the build weight uses up one horsepower at least. Keith On 02/02/2014 14:23, Mario Giacummo wrote: > Keep the A-65.. with little rework you can convert it to A-75 (10 > more) if you are uncomfortable with 65, and then if 75 is not enough, > you can convert it to 85 also (it's a big rework than the first one) > > Just to add something to the A-65 > > regards. > > > Mario Giacummo > > > 2014-02-02 jim hyde >: > > u answered your own question..the plane was made for a 40hp > engine.. the a65 is plenty of motor. 25 more hp than the 40.. why > would anyone need more.. > > > On Thursday, January 30, 2014 7:16 PM, Brian Kenney > > wrote: > hope I am doing this right - my first post > > I have 26 years flying an A-65 in my Piet. It is nearly the > perfect engine for the air camper. I weight over 200 lbs and I > have taken three different passengers that weigh about 250 lbs. It > fly's that weight no problem but my empty weight is around 600Lbs. > Realize that a 65 and a 75 are virtually identical and you can > have anything between 65 and 75 hp with a different prop. The prop > is critical. There is no such thing as a cruise prop for this > application. If you are not achieving redline in climb you > actually have a smaller engine then you think. I run my A-65 as an > A-70 horsepower without any modification by letting it rev higher > than 2300 rpm. The engine map in the manual will show you how. > > There are good reasons to use a C-85 or 0-200 - the main is the > engine weight - the A-65 is too light for some completed air > campers that are built tail heavy. It makes a poor airplane if you > end up with nose that is too long or a wing that is too far aft or > both. The option is then there of adding accessories like a > starter, battery and/or a generator to solve a cg problem. > > weight is critical with horsepower and the power helps compensate > for a heaver and over equipped airplane. > > where you live is also important. the higher the airport the more > you will want power. The hotter it is the same applies. > > remember is you don't want to prop then don't use a A-65. > > the cylinders on a c-85 or 0-200 are more durable and are easier > to get. > > I love mine - I am good with it. I am working on making a A-65 > into a 85 horsepower with adding c-85 cylinders - this can be done > but you have to investigate this and draw your own conclusions. > > brian kenney > > > > Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2014 18:39:59 -0500 > > From: born2fly(at)abcmailbox.net <mailto:born2fly(at)abcmailbox.net> > > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > > > Subject: Pietenpol-List: A-65 > > > > > > > > Hi guys, > > I have an opportunity to buy a newly overhauled Continental A-65 > for a > > reasonable price. It's been redone by an expert that knows how to > > rebuild an engine blindfolded and with one hand tied behind his > back. > > Except he's very vocal that I will regret putting such a small > engine in > > and that I should put a O-200 on, at the least. Maybe even a 125 > hp.... > > I'm wondering if anybody can give me performance reports for the > A-65, > > 85 and O-200. Takeoff, Feet per minute and cruise etc..... > > I learned how to fly behind a 65 and sure, you do takeoff a few > seconds > > later then normal. But then again nobody builds a Piet to get > anywhere = Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, > &g= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > > ======================= > > > > > > > > *http://www.matronics.com/Naviga.matronics.com/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://forums.matronics-->* > > > * > > " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > tp://forums.matronics.com > _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > * > > > * > > > * ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Wheel alignment....
From: "GNflyer" <rayeh48(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Feb 02, 2014
Well I have not read all the books or had enough discussion about it with experts to know, but it seems to me that much of either would be bad but toe in seems like it would be worse simply because when the aircraft starts to veer to the side the weight would transfer to the outside wheel. and if it is turned in it would drive it into the turn even faster. where toe out might tend to try to pull it out of the loop a little. that being said mine has a little toe in -I did not build it and attempted to straighten it some but that cub gear is mighty tough for sure.Raymond Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418011#418011 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Wheel alignment....
From: "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Feb 02, 2014
My airplane has no toe-in or toe-out and I've been told that it is best to rig conventional landing gear that way. If you prop up the tail so the airplane is level on the mains (preferably with fuel in the tank), you can check this by clamping some lightweight wooden sticks (or pieces of tubing, or aluminum angles) onto the sides of the tires so that they project several feet out in front of the wheels and then measuring the distance between them at the wheels and then at the ends of the sticks. By the way, I got the Matco tailwheel installed and adjusted the spring tension by changing chain links as needed. Tailwheel is ready and it's back in shape. The wings will go back onto the airplane next weekend. I'm excited! Getting close to being able to fire it up and do some taxi testing. It will be Scout's first outing in Oregon. Oil needs to be drained, oil screen cleaned and checked for metal, then I'll fuel it up, fire it up, warm it up, then shut down and check compression. All in good time. -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418013#418013 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Wheel alignment....
From: "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org>
Date: Feb 02, 2014
Ray, Exactly what Raymond said. He nailed it on the head. Shot for straight though. Very slight toe out is OK but any toe in is very bad. -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418014#418014 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ray Krause <raykrause(at)frontiernet.net>
Subject: Re: Wheel alignment....
Date: Feb 02, 2014
To all those responding to my questions about wheel alignment, thanks for all the help. My gear is toed out, but I think it can be fixed fairly easily. I will wait until rigging time when everything will be lined up. On my Waiex, I had to have no toe in or out to make it right, but that is a 1" round titanium gear, lots of spring. Thanks, everyone! Ray Krause, SkyScout coming along Sent from my iPad > On Feb 2, 2014, at 6:25 PM, "AircamperN11MS" wrote: > > > Ray, > Exactly what Raymond said. He nailed it on the head. Shot for straight though. Very slight toe out is OK but any toe in is very bad. > > -------- > Scott Liefeld > Flying N11MS since March 1972 > Steel Tube > C-85-12 > Wire Wheels > Brodhead in 1996 > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418014#418014 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Clif Dawson" <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: A-65
Date: Feb 02, 2014
No more guessing! :-) Clif Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler. Einstein > > I don't remember where I read it (bingelis books?), but I heard the > formula to find the best horsepower is to take the cube of your weight > times your pecker plus eight. This is the minimum hp for your weight. Then > add 25% for optimum hp. Don't quote me on that though. > > -------- > KLNC ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 03, 2014
Subject: Re: Wheel alignment....
From: Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com>
With my tail on the ground, mine appears to be toed in. I discovered this when I push it forward and back. In my tiny model T 1929 era garage, the gear spreads out when I push it back in, When I pull it out the gear appears to be closer togather. I will check it in flight attitude as oscar describes and I will measure the distance between the tires when rolled forward out of the garage and when rolled backwards into the garage. real question, shouldn't it be done with normal load? IE 200 lbs in pilot seat? That is the configuration for most of my planned takeoffs and landings. Mine is Piper cub gear. On my 1959 cessna 150 it was a simple matter of shims. Blue Skies, Steve D On Sun, Feb 2, 2014 at 10:54 PM, Ray Krause wrote: > raykrause(at)frontiernet.net> > > To all those responding to my questions about wheel alignment, thanks for > all the help. My gear is toed out, but I think it can be fixed fairly > easily. I will wait until rigging time when everything will be lined up. On > my Waiex, I had to have no toe in or out to make it right, but that is a 1" > round titanium gear, lots of spring. > > Thanks, everyone! > > Ray Krause, > SkyScout coming along > > Sent from my iPad > > > On Feb 2, 2014, at 6:25 PM, "AircamperN11MS" > wrote: > > > Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org> > > > > Ray, > > Exactly what Raymond said. He nailed it on the head. Shot for straight > though. Very slight toe out is OK but any toe in is very bad. > > > > -------- > > Scott Liefeld > > Flying N11MS since March 1972 > > Steel Tube > > C-85-12 > > Wire Wheels > > Brodhead in 1996 > > > > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418014#418014 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 03, 2014
Subject: Re: Wheel alignment....
From: Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com>
Let me ask the question that I was thinking about as I typed the message below. Should I be more worried about toein or out in the 3 point configuration, or in the level wheel landing/takeoff configuration, or should I get the best average toein/out for both? Also would I need to do it weighted as though for flight? Also, Are there any really good websites for adjusting Piper cub type gear? Blue Skies, Steve On Mon, Feb 3, 2014 at 8:26 AM, Steven Dortch wrote: > With my tail on the ground, mine appears to be toed in. I discovered this > when I push it forward and back. In my tiny model T 1929 era garage, the > gear spreads out when I push it back in, When I pull it out the gear > appears to be closer togather. > > I will check it in flight attitude as oscar describes and I will measure > the distance between the tires when rolled forward out of the garage and > when rolled backwards into the garage. real question, shouldn't it be done > with normal load? IE 200 lbs in pilot seat? That is the configuration for > most of my planned takeoffs and landings. > > Mine is Piper cub gear. On my 1959 cessna 150 it was a simple matter of > shims. > > Blue Skies, > Steve D > > On Sun, Feb 2, 2014 at 10:54 PM, Ray Krause wrote: > >> raykrause(at)frontiernet.net> >> >> To all those responding to my questions about wheel alignment, thanks for >> all the help. My gear is toed out, but I think it can be fixed fairly >> easily. I will wait until rigging time when everything will be lined up. On >> my Waiex, I had to have no toe in or out to make it right, but that is a 1" >> round titanium gear, lots of spring. >> >> Thanks, everyone! >> >> Ray Krause, >> SkyScout coming along >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> > On Feb 2, 2014, at 6:25 PM, "AircamperN11MS" >> wrote: >> > >> Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org> >> > >> > Ray, >> > Exactly what Raymond said. He nailed it on the head. Shot for straight >> though. Very slight toe out is OK but any toe in is very bad. >> > >> > -------- >> > Scott Liefeld >> > Flying N11MS since March 1972 >> > Steel Tube >> > C-85-12 >> > Wire Wheels >> > Brodhead in 1996 >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > Read this topic online here: >> > >> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418014#418014 >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Wheel alignment....
From: "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Feb 03, 2014
I think the best way is to make sure that the geometry doesn't change as the struts move. Sure, camber will, but if designed and built correctly, toe won't. That requires the front and back mounting points to be inline, and that line being parallel to the centerline of the fuselage. You should be able to stick a long rod through the whole mess instead of bolts front and back. Then measure the ends of the rod (checking for sag and such) to see if it's parallel. If not, the mounting points need to be rebuilt. Then, once the landing gear Vees are mounted correctly, the tubes for the axles on the bottom of the Vees need to be lined up with each other. Determine what point you want the camber line to be vertical, probably normally loaded, and put a long tube through BOTH axle tubes to keep them in line, with no toe in or toe out, and weld them to the gear Vees. It's a lot of mocking up. It can be done at any time. It might require a fairly extensive rebuild depending on what you've got. Hopefully worst case is welding in holes, mocking up and through drilling everything at once in place for the best results. Measuring correctly and building outwards seems to always introduce incremental errors that keep it all from working some how. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418037#418037 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: leather coaming
From: Gardiner Mason <airlion2(at)gmail.com>
Date: Feb 03, 2014
Douwe. I have just bought a low time c85 to put on my Piet. Could you please send me pics of the engine and cowling on your installation? Also a picture of your panel. Obviously I have to build a motor mount. I have a Macauley m etal prop 71-46 that came off my Cessna 140 with a c90 engine. I will probab ly have a lot of questions later on. What kind of cruise do you get? Cheers, Gardiner Sent from my iPadi will On Jan 30, 2014, at 10:53 AM, "Douwe Blumberg" wrote: > Hey Ken, > > I just did a google search for leather suppliers and found a place that ha d a decent selection of =9Cdistressed=9D leather which is the lo ok I wanted. I seem to have deleted them from my address book and it=99 s been a while now so I don=99t remember who it was. > > Too thin and your grommets can tear as you snug things up, too thick and i t won=99t form well to the compound curves. Thinner equals a smoother job. > > Let me ck, but I might still have enough from my purchase for you to use. > > Dan=99s article on how he did his coaming proved very helpful. > > Douwe > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Gardiner's C-85
Date: Feb 04, 2014
Hey buddy, I'll contact you with the pics and am happy to tell you what I know. You'll love that engine/airframe combination! Don Emch leant me his engine mount jig and he'll loan it to whoever needs it. Not sure where it is now, but it would be well worth it to see if you could track it down. I added some sidethrust with washers which seems to have worked out well. I say leave as much crap on the engine as you can so you don't end up with a stupid long nosed Piet. I left on the old heavy generator, and ran the battery as far forward as I could and left the starter on, which is sure convenient. My weight and balance came out good. I'm sure your prop will work, but my gut is telling me there are some better ones out there for a draggy airframe such as ours. VERY different beast than a 140, and very different prop requirements. My C-90 is spinning a 76, same diameter as that old Ford. I've still not REALLY honed in on my exact airspeeds, but they seem about this. I like to put around using little fuel and keeping things very quiet at 2,000rpm. At this, I chug along around 60ish. When I'm going somewhere, I'll cruise around 2250 or 2300 which seems to bring it close to 70. 2450 will get me around 75ish. She's not very fast. Going to Brodhead last year, my average groundspeed was 60, coming back was 82. D ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Gardiner's C-85
From: Gardiner Mason <airlion2(at)gmail.com>
Date: Feb 04, 2014
Thanks Douwe. My fuselage is 26 wide. What width is the jig and what is Dons phone number? My prop is a Mac. 71-46 metal, so probably heavier than your s. Also I have the heavier starter and generator. I am looking for aeronca e xhaust stacks also. Thanks, gardiner Sent from my iPad On Feb 4, 2014, at 9:28 AM, "Douwe Blumberg" w rote: > Hey buddy, > > I=99ll contact you with the pics and am happy to tell you what I kno w. > > You=99ll love that engine/airframe combination! Don Emch leant me h is engine mount jig and he=99ll loan it to whoever needs it. Not sure where it is now, but it would be well worth it to see if you could track it down. I added some sidethrust with washers which seems to have worked out w ell. > > I say leave as much crap on the engine as you can so you don=99t end up with a stupid long nosed Piet. I left on the old heavy generator, and r an the battery as far forward as I could and left the starter on, which is s ure convenient. My weight and balance came out good. > > I=99m sure your prop will work, but my gut is telling me there are s ome better ones out there for a draggy airframe such as ours. VERY differen t beast than a 140, and very different prop requirements. My C-90 is spinni ng a 76, same diameter as that old Ford. > > I=99ve still not REALLY honed in on my exact airspeeds, but they see m about this. > > I like to put around using little fuel and keeping things very quiet at 2, 000rpm. At this, I chug along around 60ish. When I=99m going somewhe re, I=99ll cruise around 2250 or 2300 which seems to bring it close to 70. 2450 will get me around 75ish. > > She=99s not very fast. Going to Brodhead last year, my average grou ndspeed was 60, coming back was 82 > > D > > > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Gardiner's C-85
From: "tkreiner" <tkreiner(at)gmail.com>
Date: Feb 04, 2014
Douwe, Since I'm at the office, I can't look up the weight of your plane... so what is it? Also, do you know which cam is in your C-90? Thanks, -------- Tom Kreiner Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418074#418074 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Shop/Hangar open house Feb 20 to 24
From: "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Feb 04, 2014
A quick reminder about an open house in Chickamauga GA later this month. I think there's about 20 or so folks fairly well committed to coming with a few projects lined up. Babbitt pouring, several machining projects, we have a couple logs about 3 feet in diameter to mill up on the sawmill, quite a few folks are bringing firearms to play with (at least one automated, bring 9mm if that interests you...), good chance we'll be doing an annual on 2RN, several piet folks are coming and going to try fabricating and welding up some control horns. The runway isn't compacted enough to use yet, so if you're interested in flying in, I have two private grass strips to point you to within 5 and 10 miles, and Lafayette GA at about 10 miles (self serve AVGAS, paved, tie downs on the ramp). We'll get you back and forth. Notice to northerners, while not warm by our standards, it's been in the 50's and 60's a lot lately! Cheers, Tools Got some oysters coming from Savannah, beef from Indiana, possibly some pork grown right here on the property (anyone know how to cook one in the ground?). The address is 335 Castlerock Ln, Chickamauga GA. Folks are still welcome to crash anywhere they can find on the property. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418100#418100 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Gardiner's C-85
From: "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com>
Date: Feb 05, 2014
Hello Gardiner, You are welcome to call me. (330) 429-5265. If I can't answer right away just leave me a message and I'll get back to you. I don't have the jig right now and without seeing it in front of me it's kind of hard to figure but you might be able to mount your fuselage attach lugs on the outside of the fixture rails to get the 26". Not real sure though. I think Fred Kim has it near Pittsburgh right now. Don Emch NX899DE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418114#418114 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: C-90 cam
Date: Feb 05, 2014
Hey Tom, All I know is that my engine has a C-90 cam, have no idea more than that. Re-PIET is heavy, right up around 800 lbs Douwe ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 05, 2014
Subject: Off subject-- link to some great WWI era aeroplanes in
NZ
From: Timothy Willis <timwillis01(at)gmail.com>
http://www.network54.com/Forum/149674/message/1385149639/Photos+from+The+Vintage+Aviator+Ltd%27s+Remembrance+Day+airshow Tim in central TX ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Gardiner's C-85
From: "FandS_Piet" <fkim79(at)gmail.com>
Date: Feb 05, 2014
I do have it Don. After a long build hiatus from having a child and a career change we are finally back at it. We actually have tubing in the jig right now and should be done with the jig shortly. I see no reason why one couldn't use spacers on the outside of the rails to make a wider mount. Once we are done I would gladly deliver the jig or meet whoever is next in line as I'm always looking for a place to fly. Fred -------- Fred Kim Pittsburgh, Pa Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418148#418148 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Wheel alignment....
From: "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Feb 05, 2014
Steve; back to your question (and the observation offered by Tools)- it should not change the toe-in/out geometry when you load the cockpit, so you shouldn't need to check it with you or anybody else sitting in the airplane but it wouldn't hurt, either. It will change the track and camber, obviously. I flew Scout for one summer season with washers, not proper shims, correcting the toe-in/out on one axle because it was not straight. That's not the proper way to do it, but you can at least fiddle with thin or thick washers (or put one on the belt sander to get it right)- and find the necessary shim thickness and angle you need if you have Cessna type axles with the 4-bolt mount pads. Please recognize that washers are not the proper way to correct the situation though ;o) -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418157#418157 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 05, 2014
From: Yahoo! Account Service <skipgadd(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Gardiner's C-85
Fred, Great to hear you are making progress. Skip -----Original Message----- >From: FandS_Piet <fkim79(at)gmail.com> >Sent: Feb 5, 2014 7:21 PM >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Gardiner's C-85 > > >I do have it Don. After a long build hiatus from having a child and a career change we are finally back at it. We actually have tubing in the jig right now and should be done with the jig shortly. I see no reason why one couldn't use spacers on the outside of the rails to make a wider mount. Once we are done I would gladly deliver the jig or meet whoever is next in line as I'm always looking for a place to fly. > >Fred > >-------- >Fred Kim >Pittsburgh, Pa > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418148#418148 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Cutting 4130
From: "aviken" <aviken(at)windstream.net>
Date: Feb 05, 2014
Hi Guys. I need some advice. I have a commercial type band saw that uses a 93 inch blade. It is really for wood, but I have slowed it down with a jack shaft I made, and it is slow enough now. I tried to rip some .100 4130 and it quickly ruined my blade. Is this not going to work. I need to come up with some way to make this thing work. I've been making some progress on my fuselage and hopeing to finish it by spring then move on to the wing when time allows Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418163#418163 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/jeep_motor_1_118.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/controls_2_491.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/controls_1_908.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Clif Dawson" <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Cutting 4130
Date: Feb 05, 2014
Make a table for better control. This one, along with a 5" vise, is mounted atop a restaurant table base. It can be rolled around the same as a55 gal drumor barrel. With one foot on it it's solid. Make the table hieght the same as the top of the vise jaws. Although these pics aren't great I'm sure guys- who-build-Piets can figure it out. :-) Clif It matters not what things have been. It only matters what they become. > > I find my 4 1/2 angle grider with cutoff disc works great. I have a second > grinder with a sanding disc to clean up edges. Many fittings can be made > by first buying strip steel of correct width to reduce cuts needed. > Paul Donahue ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Cutting 4130
From: "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Feb 05, 2014
I've cut a LOT of steel, mild up to 3/4", 4130 up to 1/4" on 14" bandsaws slowed down to correct metal cutting speeds... So they'll do it. What kind of blade are you running? Mine are generally around 14 tpi, maybe less. How slow have you got it to run with your jack shaft? I'll go double check mine, but it's pretty slow. It's a triple gear reduction. Doing it with pulleys is generally pretty tough. It's a VERY small pulley running a LARGE pulley, a couple of times. I suspect your blade is going to fast. I imagine my wheels are going somewhere around 60 rpm at the fastest. My 20" saw goes around 30 rpm. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418166#418166 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: glenschweizer(at)yahoo.com
Subject: Re: Cutting 4130
Date: Feb 06, 2014
I've used ,from harbor freight aerospace tools, a cheap assed metal cutting bandsaw. When you lift the blade sassy to the vertical position, you will see the adjustable guide rollers that support the blade.fabricate a small table to attach to that Assy. Now you have something resembling a larger table saw with the additional and intended use as a metal cutting bandsaw Mine is made for cutting up to a 4 " diameter pipe or whatever quite the work horse for a hundred bucks. Keep the blade speed down to keep it cool use no oil cause it clogs the blade. Sent from my iPhone > On Feb 5, 2014, at 10:12 PM, "Clif Dawson" wrote: > > Make a table for better control. > This one, along with a 5" vise, is mounted atop a > restaurant table base. It can be rolled around the > same as a55 gal drumor barrel. With one foot on > it it's solid. Make the table hieght the same as the > top of the vise jaws. > Although these pics aren't great I'm sure guys- > who-build-Piets can figure it out. :-) > > Clif > It matters not what things have been. > It only matters what they become. > > >> >> I find my 4 1/2 angle grider with cutoff disc works great. I have a second grinder with a sanding disc to clean up edges. Many fittings can be made by first buying strip steel of correct width to reduce cuts needed. >> Paul Donahue > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Cutting 4130
From: "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com>
Date: Feb 06, 2014
It's all about your cutting speed, which is referred to in surface feet per minute. Wood band saws are usually way up there around 1500-2500 SFPM. That will smoke a blade immediately as soon as you touch steel. In order to cut 4130 you really need to be in the 80-120 SFPM range. Many folks do this by mounting a jack shaft but it's probably going to surprise you just how big of a pulley is going to be needed to slow it down. You'll need to do some math and figure your circumferences on your pulleys. If you want, you can give me your current RPM and your pulley diameters and I can figure out for you what your SFPM is. I could then tell you what you would need for a pulley. As far as teeth per inch (TPI) goes, you always want to engage at least 2 teeth in your material. Otherwise you can chip a tooth off. Once you do this the next tooth easily chips off, then the next, the next, and soon you have a whole strip of teeth missing. Just speakin' from frustrated experience... Don Emch NX899DE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418171#418171 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Gardiner's C-85
From: "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com>
Date: Feb 06, 2014
Fred, Great to hear on some progress. Everyone that has ever built one of these has had more important family and life obligations get in the way! Looking forward to some pictures... Don Emch NX899DE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418172#418172 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <jack(at)bedfordlandings.com>
Subject: Re: Cutting 4130
Date: Feb 06, 2014
Don is absolutely right about this. The blade speed needs to be about 80 feet per minute (RPM of the pulleys is irrelevant - all the blade knows is how fast it is going realtive to the work piece you are trying to cut). Don is also right about the number of teeth . For the thin stuff we cut I prefer to get 32 teeth per inch blades, and even then cutting .032" 4130 sheet like you use for the control horns you will chip a few teeth off. Jack Phillips NX899JP Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don Emch Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 6:47 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cutting 4130 It's all about your cutting speed, which is referred to in surface feet per minute. Wood band saws are usually way up there around 1500-2500 SFPM. That will smoke a blade immediately as soon as you touch steel. In order to cut 4130 you really need to be in the 80-120 SFPM range. Many folks do this by mounting a jack shaft but it's probably going to surprise you just how big of a pulley is going to be needed to slow it down. You'll need to do some math and figure your circumferences on your pulleys. If you want, you can give me your current RPM and your pulley diameters and I can figure out for you what your SFPM is. I could then tell you what you would need for a pulley. As far as teeth per inch (TPI) goes, you always want to engage at least 2 teeth in your material. Otherwise you can chip a tooth off. Once you do this the next tooth easily chips off, then the next, the next, and soon you have a whole strip of teeth missing. Just speakin' from frustrated experience... Don Emch NX899DE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418171#418171 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jerry Grogan" <jerry(at)SKYCLASSIC.NET>
Subject: Cutting 4130
Date: Feb 06, 2014
Also besides all the other good advice. What is happening is when you cut 4130 you have to keep cutting. Don't stop or the metal will get hot and CASE HARDEN. When it case hardens it will take all the teeth off the blade. So slower is good but the main thing is keep cutting and don't pause. That's why we water jet cut. We have lost many blades but it can be done and we still do it sometimes. Jerry Sky Classic Aircraft -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of aviken Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2014 10:04 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Cutting 4130 Hi Guys. I need some advice. I have a commercial type band saw that uses a 93 inch blade. It is really for wood, but I have slowed it down with a jack shaft I made, and it is slow enough now. I tried to rip some .100 4130 and it quickly ruined my blade. Is this not going to work. I need to come up with some way to make this thing work. I've been making some progress on my fuselage and hopeing to finish it by spring then move on to the wing when time allows Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418163#418163 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/jeep_motor_1_118.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/controls_2_491.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/controls_1_908.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 06, 2014
Subject: Re: Cutting 4130
From: Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com>
I love the Jeep motor! Are you going to mount it high and sticking up or somewhat lower with the prop at a lower position? It could look very OX5ish. A buddy has an Overland Whippet he is restoring from ground up. It is the father of the Jeep. The motor is only about 25 HP but it looks just like your engine, which looks just like my old 1948 Jeep Pickup's engine. both were related tothe WW II jeep engine. Not a lot of HP but a hell of a lot of tourqe on that old Pickup. Willys-Overland Pickup top speed was 39 MPH. Low transfer and 1st gear top speed was under 1 MPH. Blue Skies, Steve D. On Wed, Feb 5, 2014 at 10:03 PM, aviken wrote: > > Hi Guys. I need some advice. I have a commercial type band saw that > uses a 93 inch blade. It is really for wood, but I have slowed it down with > a jack shaft I made, and it is slow enough now. I tried to rip some .100 > 4130 and it quickly ruined my blade. Is this not going to work. I need > to come up with some way to make this thing work. > I've been making some progress on my fuselage and hopeing to finish > it by spring then move on to the wing when time allows > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418163#418163 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/jeep_motor_1_118.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/controls_2_491.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/controls_1_908.jpg > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Cutting 4130
From: "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com>
Date: Feb 06, 2014
I agree with Jack. If you are up in the 120 SFPM range you may want to be using coolant. Many horizontal saws with a coolant pump run well in this range. To be safe with a dry vertical saw, shoot for 80 SFPM. Don Emch NX899DE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418176#418176 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: nx727cr build update
From: "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org>
Date: Feb 06, 2014
It is beautiful. The wood reminds me of the old Christ Craft wooden boats. I love it. I love the smell of 4130 in the morning, :) -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418181#418181 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Off subject-- link to some great WWI era aeroplanes
in NZ
From: "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org>
Date: Feb 06, 2014
Oh man, I just wet myself. Wish I was there. reminds me of a bok I just read, "Fighting the flying circus" Great read. -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418182#418182 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 06, 2014
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Off subject-- link to some great WWI era aeroplanes
in NZ For those in the area and interested...=0A=0Ahttp://www.nationalmuseum.af.m il/wwi.asp=0A=0AI plan to be at this event.=0A-=0A=0AIf God is your co-pi lot...switch seats.=0AMichael Perez=0APietenpol HINT Videos=0AKaretaker Aer o=0Awww.karetakeraero.com=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: nx727cr build update
From: "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org>
Date: Feb 06, 2014
I can't wait to see the rest of it. Has anyone ever used wood instead of aluminum for the upper part of the fuse over the instrument panels? Your floor boards could look rather smart up there. -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418198#418198 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 06, 2014
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: nx727cr build update
Looks very nice and as with the others, the floor looks really cool!=0A=0AS cott, I have used plywood for the instrument cowlings. Nothing fancy as min e are ultimately going to be painted. If I was using a different paint sche me, I would definitely consider some nice wood and varnish.=0A-=0A=0AIf G od is your co-pilot...switch seats.=0AMichael Perez=0APietenpol HINT Videos =0AKaretakerAero=0Awww.karetakeraero.com=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Cobra Torches...
From: Ray Krause <raykrause(at)frontiernet.net>
Date: Feb 06, 2014
Guys, Has anyone tried the Cobra acetylene welding system on aircraft tubing? It looks almost as good as TIG welding, uses a very small flame, easy to manage, does not distort the tubing, only very small area is heated. I saw a demo at the farm show and had the fellow weld up a tubing 45 degree joint. Looked really good. Uses only 4PSI oxygen and acetylene. The literature says it is 900 F hotter than normal acetylene flame. Also welds aluminum , stainless, copper, and cast iron. It cuts almost like a plasma cutter, very clean, sharp edges, very little slag. (Cobratorches.com). I tried it and could do a decent weld with no experience with it! I am not a welder! Would like to be! Comments? Ray Krause Sent from my iPad ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: nx727cr build update
From: "John Francis" <Mrkringles(at)msn.com>
Date: Feb 06, 2014
It looks great! Then again, so does the green grass. John from cold Ohio. -------- John Francis Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418207#418207 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Cutting 4130
From: "womenfly2" <Love2Fly.KAP(at)gmail.com>
Date: Feb 06, 2014
You want a Lenox Bi-Metal Band-saw Blade. Standard TPI = 24, 1/2" wide x .025" thk. Any tool shop will make up the length you need or order one on line. Your Band-saw needs to be no more then 200 FPM. Link: LENOX DIEMASTER 2 BI-METAL BAND SAW BLADES (http://www.lenoxtools.com/Pages/Product.aspx?productId=Diemaster2r) Hope this helps, WF2 -------- Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418209#418209 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 06, 2014
Subject: Re: nx727cr build update
From: Ken Bickers <bickers.ken(at)gmail.com>
I also used plywood (1/16") for my instrument cowlings and for the cowling over my nose tank. Worked great. On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 10:55 AM, Michael Perez wrote: > Looks very nice and as with the others, the floor looks really cool! > > Scott, I have used plywood for the instrument cowlings. Nothing fancy as > mine are ultimately going to be painted. If I was using a different paint > scheme, I would definitely consider some nice wood and varnish. > > > If God is your co-pilot...switch seats. > Michael Perez > Pietenpol HINT Videos > Karetaker Aero > www.karetakeraero.com > > * > > > * > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: texas piet. flyin
From: "curtdm(at)gmail.com" <curtdm(at)gmail.com>
Date: Feb 06, 2014
I'll have to drive, but I will try to be there! Any date set? -------- Curt Merdan Flower Mound, TX Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418211#418211 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dennis Engelkenjohn" <mushface1(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Cutting 4130
Date: Feb 06, 2014
I have one of the Harbor Fright metal cutting band saws too. My blade keeps jumping off though. What I use in real life is a Sears 12" wood cutting bandsaw slowed down with a 1 1/2 hp AC/DC motor with a speed controller. Very expensive motor I salvaged years ago from an old ice cream freezer. Sears sells metal cutting blades of 14 tpi to fit for about $15. If you have a Sears nearby you can pick one up and try it out. Some blades are better than others but you can get a blade quick and not be out much if it doesn't work. They don't last forever, but should make quite a few parts before they dull. If it does work your can order a more quality blade from other sources. Those "zipper" blades about 1/16" cut steel like a hot knife through butter, but I am not so confident about cutting 4130 due to localized heating. I may be worrying needlessly though and there are several engineers here who can steer you right on using them. They are available at Home Cheapo and Lowes and nearly anywhere else that sells tools. Dennis -----Original Message----- From: aviken Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2014 10:03 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Cutting 4130 Hi Guys. I need some advice. I have a commercial type band saw that uses a 93 inch blade. It is really for wood, but I have slowed it down with a jack shaft I made, and it is slow enough now. I tried to rip some .100 4130 and it quickly ruined my blade. Is this not going to work. I need to come up with some way to make this thing work. I've been making some progress on my fuselage and hopeing to finish it by spring then move on to the wing when time allows Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418163#418163 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/jeep_motor_1_118.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/controls_2_491.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/controls_1_908.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Cutting 4130
From: "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Feb 06, 2014
Here is my version of Glen's Harbor Freight portaband saw. With my 25% off coupon and some scrap lumber and brackets I made my vertical saw for about 65 bucks. It ain't pretty but it has cut .125 thick steel plate. Just buy some metal cutting blades (the one that comes with is a WOOD cutting blade. Go figure), and go slow, or the blade will jump off the track, so to speak. Jake Schultz's setup is a lot better than mine, but he is the one he gave me the idea. If you need more help visualizing how to make it, click on the link below- http://www.instructables.com/id/Make-a-portaband-into-an-vertical-band-saw/step1/The-Portaband/ -------- Semper Fi, Terry Hand Athens, GA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418226#418226 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/image_744.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/image_189.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 06, 2014
From: shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Cobra Torches...
If that is the pistol grip style torch, Dad has one.- I tried it a few ye ars ago with dads regulators that were kind of crappy (pressure settings wa ndered all over).- I have since bought my own oxy acetylene set up, a Har ris Metal worker set, with the Mid Size Bottles for $750.- Now that I kno w what the heck I am doing I am thinking of borrowing it again and see how I like it.- The hardest thing for me was getting use to holding the torch like a pistol.- I have watched the DVD that came with the Cobra, and the y strongly recomend the 2 $tage regulators for very minute adjustments.- I think the reality is use what you are used to and can make satisfactory w elds with.- In my humble oppinion welding equipment (Especcially Acetylen e) is not something I would buy chineese harbor freight stuff.- They prob ably do as good a job when they work, but with a tank full of very explosiv e gas I fell a little better knowing It wasn't thrown together by the commies.------ =0ASorry to get off topic,=0A-=0AShad=0Ado no t archive=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: Ray Krause <rayk rause(at)frontiernet.net>=0ATo: "pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com" @matronics.com> =0ASent: Thursday, February 6, 2014 1:16 PM=0ASubject: Piet Ray Krause =0A=0AGuys,=0A=0AHas anyone tried the Cobra acetylene welding system on aircraft tubing? It looks almost as good as TIG welding, uses a very small flame, easy to manage, does not distort the tubing, only very small area is heated. I saw a demo at the farm show a nd had the fellow weld up a tubing 45 degree joint. Looked really good. Use s only 4PSI oxygen and acetylene. The literature says it is 900 F hotter th an normal acetylene flame. Also welds aluminum , stainless, copper, and cas t iron. It cuts almost like a plasma cutter, very clean, sharp edges, very little slag. (Cobratorches.com).=0A=0AI tried it and could do a decent weld with no experience with it! I am not a welder! Would like to be!=0A=0AComm -======================== =- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -Matt Dralle ======== ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: How to figure the volume of your center section fuel tank
From: "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Feb 06, 2014
Reading through old issues of Sport Aviation Magazine, I came across this article from the January 1990 issue. I have made a copy of the one page and posted it here. I don't think that the lawyers at EAA will shoot me for doing so, but I am giving them full credit for the ownership of the article. I wouldn't want anyone to worry about me taking credit for someone else's work. The article gives you a method for calculating the area of irregular shapes. I used it to get a ballpark idea of the size of my center section fuel tank. I took the template for my fuel tank and measured the side view (which is the airfoil shape between the front and rear spars), then multiplied that by the proposed width of the tank. I used a conservative figure of 20 inches. You then have the volume of your tank in cubic inches. Divide that number by 231 and you should have a fair idea of the volume of your future fuel tank. my Tiger Moth-ish/Douwe Blumberg-ish tank comes in at around 19 gallons and change. Hope that helps. -------- Semper Fi, Terry Hand Athens, GA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418232#418232 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/shop_calc_184.png ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Cobra Torches...
From: "Pietflyer1977" <rob(at)stoinoff.com>
Date: Feb 06, 2014
I think you would be happy with it. I have had one for years and really like it. I use mine several times a week. For me it is easier to hold and have more control. It does concentrate the flame and temp. You can weld thin sheet metal nice with minimal warpage but it still will warp. There is a tip for welding thin wall 4130 that to my knowledge doesn't come with there newer kits. You can buy it separate. There are two number two tips. One has a ring at the bottom and the other at the top. The one at the top works best for .035 wall 4130. The older kits had them but that's when they were a Henbrob which is what I have. It isn't a must but there regulators make it a little easier to get 4-5 lbs. most oxygen regulators don't go that low. Also there light weight hoses are nice. Make sure you use smooth rods to clean the tips. The normal tip cleaners with grooves will ruin the tips and will not weld right. With practice you can make a gas weld on your tubing look just like a tig weld. They also weld alum. Nice but you do have to have the correct lens to see the alum. Melt. My opinion is they are well worth there money. Good luck! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418235#418235 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: How to figure the volume of your center section fuel
tank
From: Lion Mason <airlion2(at)gmail.com>
Date: Feb 06, 2014
Terry I did it the dumb ass way. I kept filling the tank 1 gallon at a time till it was full and,voila, I had a figure. Gardiner N Sent from my iPhone On Feb 6, 2014, at 6:02 PM, "jarheadpilot82" wrote: > > Reading through old issues of Sport Aviation Magazine, I came across this article from the January 1990 issue. I have made a copy of the one page and posted it here. I don't think that the lawyers at EAA will shoot me for doing so, but I am giving them full credit for the ownership of the article. I wouldn't want anyone to worry about me taking credit for someone else's work. The article gives you a method for calculating the area of irregular shapes. I used it to get a ballpark idea of the size of my center section fuel tank. > > I took the template for my fuel tank and measured the side view (which is the airfoil shape between the front and rear spars), then multiplied that by the proposed width of the tank. I used a conservative figure of 20 inches. You then have the volume of your tank in cubic inches. Divide that number by 231 and you should have a fair idea of the volume of your future fuel tank. my Tiger Moth-ish/Douwe Blumberg-ish tank comes in at around 19 gallons and change. > > Hope that helps. > > -------- > Semper Fi, > > Terry Hand > Athens, GA > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418232#418232 > > > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/shop_calc_184.png > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: How to figure the volume of your center section fuel
tank
From: "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Feb 06, 2014
Gardiner, I did it this way before building my tank so I could adjust the "Tiger Moth-ish" shape to give me the fuel I needed. Not having made my tank, it is helping me in the design phase. Really meant for other active builders, not necessarily those, like you, that have completed their build. -------- Semper Fi, Terry Hand Athens, GA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418240#418240 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: glenschweizer(at)yahoo.com
Subject: Re: How to figure the volume of your center section fuel
tank
Date: Feb 06, 2014
What thickness of alum is good for center section tank ? T3? Sent from my iPhone > On Feb 6, 2014, at 4:47 PM, Lion Mason wrote: > > > Terry I did it the dumb ass way. I kept filling the tank 1 gallon at a time till it was full and,voila, I had a figure. Gardiner > N > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Feb 6, 2014, at 6:02 PM, "jarheadpilot82" wrote: >> >> >> Reading through old issues of Sport Aviation Magazine, I came across this article from the January 1990 issue. I have made a copy of the one page and posted it here. I don't think that the lawyers at EAA will shoot me for doing so, but I am giving them full credit for the ownership of the article. I wouldn't want anyone to worry about me taking credit for someone else's work. The article gives you a method for calculating the area of irregular shapes. I used it to get a ballpark idea of the size of my center section fuel tank. >> >> I took the template for my fuel tank and measured the side view (which is the airfoil shape between the front and rear spars), then multiplied that by the proposed width of the tank. I used a conservative figure of 20 inches. You then have the volume of your tank in cubic inches. Divide that number by 231 and you should have a fair idea of the volume of your future fuel tank. my Tiger Moth-ish/Douwe Blumberg-ish tank comes in at around 19 gallons and change. >> >> Hope that helps. >> >> -------- >> Semper Fi, >> >> Terry Hand >> Athens, GA >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418232#418232 >> >> >> >> >> Attachments: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com//files/shop_calc_184.png > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: How to figure the volume of your center section fuel
tank
From: "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Feb 06, 2014
Glen, Here is a link to a Tony Bingelis article about aluminum fuel tanks- http://members.eaa.org/home/homebuilders/authors/bingelis/4How%20About%20An%20Aluminum%20Fuel%20Tank_.html Hopefully, it can answer a lot of your questions. -------- Semper Fi, Terry Hand Athens, GA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418247#418247 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ray Krause <raykrause(at)frontiernet.net>
Subject: Re: Cobra Torches...
Date: Feb 06, 2014
Thanks, nice pointers. I will go back to the Farm Show and buy a set. Not sure which tips it comes with. I have cheap "Harbor Fright" regulators, they may not work. I will see. I think I would feel more secure with this setup than a TIG, which I have tried. And, it is a lot cheaper! I just hope the welds are as strong as the TIG. THANKS, RAY KRAUSE Sent from my iPad > On Feb 6, 2014, at 3:36 PM, "Pietflyer1977" wrote: > > > I think you would be happy with it. I have had one for years and really like it. I use mine several times a week. For me it is easier to hold and have more control. It does concentrate the flame and temp. You can weld thin sheet metal nice with minimal warpage but it still will warp. There is a tip for welding thin wall 4130 that to my knowledge doesn't come with there newer kits. You can buy it separate. There are two number two tips. One has a ring at the bottom and the other at the top. The one at the top works best for .035 wall 4130. The older kits had them but that's when they were a Henbrob which is what I have. It isn't a must but there regulators make it a little easier to get 4-5 lbs. most oxygen regulators don't go that low. Also there light weight hoses are nice. Make sure you use smooth rods to clean the tips. The normal tip cleaners with grooves will ruin the tips and will not weld right. With practice you can make a gas weld on your tubing look just like a tig! > weld. They also weld alum. Nice but you do have to have the correct lens to see the alum. Melt. My opinion is they are well worth there money. Good luck! > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418235#418235 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: How to figure the volume of your center section fuel
tank
From: "Braniff1966" <jnl96(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Feb 06, 2014
that's how I did it. one gal at a time in a milk jug.. I teach aviation science at a college and we use terrys method.. hyde Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418250#418250 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: texas piet. flyin
From: "Braniff1966" <jnl96(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Feb 06, 2014
still looking into it.. not much interest so far jim Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418251#418251 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Cutting 4130
From: "aviken" <aviken(at)windstream.net>
Date: Feb 07, 2014
Thanks for all the response to my question. I did some calculations this morning and was surprised . Even though I had slowed my band saw down with a double set of pulleys, I found it was no where near the 80 feet per minute needed. By putting a piece of masking tape on the blade and counting the revolutions I determined I was way fast. A 93 inch blade is 7.7 feet long so it can make just over 10 revs per minute. My speed was 46 revs. per minute. So I've got work to do. I have a small gear box that was used on a commercial bread kneading machine that I considered using at the start, but was concerned that it would be too slow. I was probably wrong. I'll try it now. Thanks Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418268#418268 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Cutting 4130
From: "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Feb 07, 2014
Ya, it's tough to really slow the things down. It's along the lines of TWO sets of pulleys, 2" and 20"... or more shafts. A gear reducer makes quick work. You really can't be TOO slow. If it is, you'll just need to feed slower. Not a big deal in a non production environment. BTW, with the HF style horiz/vert metal cutters, the blade jumping is usually a worn bushing on the main drive wheel shaft. Don't know why it's a bushing there, but it is. Easy to replace, nearly always fixes the problem. With the portabands, it's a matter of the thing flexing one of the wheels on it's shaft, giving "jumping" geometry. If you can adjust the track, overcompensate (which wears the flange on the wheels quicker... that flange thickness is how you determine the real wear on a metal cutter, the worn out saws have a very thin flange) and you can push a little harder. It doesn't hurt to take a small whetstone to the BACK of the blade. As it's spinning, hold the stone on the black of the blade to smooth it out a bit, and round over the edges just a little. It'll prevent some wear on the saw, and can extend blade life. This is also a good idea on wood cutting blades. On a combo saw, spin the blade at wood speeds to do this easier. With lubricant, I've found in a non production setting no lube at all works pretty good. It seems total flooding, or nothing works best. SOME lube tends to gum up everything. The swarf accumulating on the wheels under the blade can also cause tracking and jumping problems. With 4130 lube probably does help more than other metals, so just be sure and stop and clean the saw more often to prevent other problems and fustrations. When you're cutting, try to keep an eye on the swarf pile. It needs to be steadily accumulating. If it's not, the blade is rubbing and not cutting well, probably need more pressure. If the saw is rapidly cranking through, probably need to reduce pressure so as not to break teeth. When you cut a tube, for example, the pressure required changes quite a bit as you cut through. In other words, the feed rate shouldn't be constant, because the nature of the cut isn't constant. The "chip load" should be as constant as possible. This is the best user (during use) variable you have to prevent localized work hardening. It's sort of intuitive on a vertical saw where the user does all the feeding. Not so obvious on a horiz saw where gravity (and springs and hydraulic cylinders) help regulate the cut. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418281#418281 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Cobra Torches...
From: "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Feb 07, 2014
These things are really controversial... However, I like mine. I haven't really figured out how to use them correctly though. Like everything, the demos are a bit misleading, but only in they make it seem easier than it is. However, they're CLEARLY doing it! And I really believe it'll do things a regular OA torch won't (though someone REALLY skilled could prove that wrong I suppose). Like all OA sets, super versatile. I did weld some 4130 once early on and made the MOST BEAUTIFUL looking welds ever... then tried some testing on them. Turned out there was NO PENETRATION at all. Really weird. So, while I also recommend them, I would also recommend really spending some time with them until you really figure them out. Like ALL tools, they require skill. There's nothing magic about them. I think most of the naysayers are folks who are good at OTHER OA torches and figure if they can't make these work, they're smoke and mirrors. When it's probably more a case of they just don't know how to make THESE torches work. They really are super nice guys who will do their level best to get you going. I also recommend good regulators that'll do well at lower levels. Like most chinese stuff, it's a matter of hit and miss, and longevity. Good regulators out of the gate will most likely save a lot of frustration. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418282#418282 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 07, 2014
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Cutting 4130
If you are really motivated, wanted to take the time and are curious if it will work...=0A=0Ahttps://woodgears.ca/bandsaw/plans/index.html=0A-=0A=0A If God is your co-pilot...switch seats.=0AMichael Perez=0APietenpol HINT Vi deos=0AKaretaker Aero=0Awww.karetakeraero.com=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 07, 2014
Subject: streamline tubing-- looking for surplus
From: Timothy Willis <timwillis01(at)gmail.com>
The good news is that I may be able to get back to building after a nearly 30 month hiatus. The bad news is that I need some 4130 tubing, now priced more dearly. Thus I am hoping to find that one of you has some unused 4130 streamline tubing in good shape. I need two pieces perhaps as long as 42 inches* each for my diagonal cabanes. [* My vertical cabanes are longer than plans, and are tipped back 6 inches until I go on Nutrisystem.] The major axis of the tubing I seek can be anywhere from 1.3 to nearly 3.0 inches. I can adapt lengths somewhat shorter if you have them. Thinner walls (like .049) are better. I also need several pieces round 4130 tubing in about 0.5 diameter, OD or ID, in similar lengths, again thin walls, for jury struts and other apps. When Dillsburg went out of biz, ACS and Wicks sure raised their prices. I thought I had all I would need, but not so. I hate to cut into some older intact struts for pieces, and some of what I have is in bad shape or just too short. So I am hoping to get better pricing from a fellow Pieter. Rather than cluttering up the board with many responses, please email me what you have by direct email. If you think you might need what you have left over, I certainly understand. Thanks, Tim in central TX ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 07, 2014
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: streamline tubing-- looking for surplus
Hi Tim. I know you wanted replys off list, but if you can't use what I have , perhaps someone else can.=0A=0AI have a single length of 4130 tube, .5" - X .035"- 63" length.=0A=0A-=0A=0A-=0A=0AIf God is your co-pilot.. .switch seats.=0AMichael Perez=0APietenpol HINT Videos=0AKaretaker Aero=0Aw ww.karetakeraero.com=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0A From: Timo thy Willis =0ATo: matronics piet site =0ASent: Friday, February 7, 2014 1:25 PM=0ASubject: Piete npol-List: streamline tubing-- looking for surplus=0A =0A=0A=0AThe good new s is that I may be able to get back to building after a nearly 30 month hia tus. -The bad news is that I need some 4130 tubing, now priced more dearl y.=0A=0AThus I am hoping to find that one of you has some unused 4130 strea mline tubing in good shape. -I need two pieces perhaps as long as 42 inch es* each for my diagonal cabanes. -[* My vertical cabanes are longer than plans, and are tipped back 6 inches until I go on Nutrisystem.]=0A=0AThe m ajor axis of the tubing I seek can be anywhere from 1.3 to nearly 3.0 inche s. -I can adapt lengths somewhat shorter if you have them. -Thinner wal ls (like .049) are better.-=0A=0A=0A=0AI also need several pieces round 4 130 tubing in about 0.5 diameter, OD or ID, in similar lengths, again thin walls, for jury struts and other apps.-=0A=0A=0AWhen Dillsburg went out o f biz, ACS and Wicks sure raised their prices. -I thought I had all I wou ld need, but not so. -I hate to cut into some older intact struts for pie ces, and some of what I have is in bad shape or just too short. -So I am hoping to get better pricing from a fellow Pieter.=0A=0ARather than clutter ing up the board with many responses, please email me what you have by dire ct email. -If you think you might need what you have left over, I certain ======= ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Cutting 4130
From: "curtdm(at)gmail.com" <curtdm(at)gmail.com>
Date: Feb 07, 2014
A special thanks to Jake Schultz for his setup. I did mine very similar to his also but without a new bed. Works great! Just 3 little strap steel brackets and a piece of wood. -------- Curt Merdan Flower Mound, TX Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418291#418291 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/image_139.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/image_170.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/image_498.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Subject: Tim Willis-- welcome back
Date: Feb 07, 2014
Great to hear that you're back to building Tim. I know you were telling Ja ck Phillips and I a few years ago of the difficult time you were having trying to make time to build but SO glad you're hoping to get back to building. Mike C. Ohio ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 07, 2014
From: shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: 4130 from wicks
When ordering from- Wicks, make sure you specify American or German tubin g, they sell a lot of Chineese 4130 Tubing, it is stated on there web site so it's got to be true (" I'm a French Model").- Voglesong (Dillsberg) us ed to sell a bunch of the chineese stuff as well, that was part of the reas on his prices were cheaper.- He sold me a bunch of the chineese stuff a f ew years ago that I welded up some rudder peddals with, they still are not in service so I can't say one way or the other as to how it will hold up. - The chineese stuff does not have the same finish the american steel has , U.S stuff is shiny gloss black, chineese stuff is flat grey-ish black.- I did happen to notice on the German tubing I got from Aircraft Spruce a c ouple weeks ago that it is more of a flat grey/black, and not real shiny. - Maybe someone on here that knows about the manufacturing process, and w hat the differences may be, and if it really maters.-=0A-=0AShad ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Wheel alignment....
From: "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca>
Date: Feb 07, 2014
I knew I remembered reading an article about this topic, and finally managed to find it. This is from the Summer 2005 edition of "To Fly" magazine (published by the Sport Aviation Association). Bill C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418298#418298 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/toe_in_out_saa2005_981.pdf ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: streamline tubing-- looking for surplus
From: Jack <jack(at)textors.com>
Date: Feb 07, 2014
Welcome back Tim. I bough 4 Cub struts at OSH for ? 200? Included the barrel s and bolts Sent from my iPad Jack Textor > On Feb 7, 2014, at 12:44 PM, Michael Perez wrot e: > > Hi Tim. I know you wanted replys off list, but if you can't use what I hav e, perhaps someone else can. > > I have a single length of 4130 tube, .5" X .035" 63" length. > > > > If God is your co-pilot...switch seats. > Michael Perez > Pietenpol HINT Videos > Karetaker Aero > www.karetakeraero.com > > From: Timothy Willis <timwillis01(at)gmail.com> > To: matronics piet site > Sent: Friday, February 7, 2014 1:25 PM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: streamline tubing-- looking for surplus > > The good news is that I may be able to get back to building after a nearly 30 month hiatus. The bad news is that I need some 4130 tubing, now priced m ore dearly. > > Thus I am hoping to find that one of you has some unused 4130 streamline t ubing in good shape. I need two pieces perhaps as long as 42 inches* each f or my diagonal cabanes. [* My vertical cabanes are longer than plans, and a re tipped back 6 inches until I go on Nutrisystem.] > > The major axis of the tubing I seek can be anywhere from 1.3 to nearly 3.0 inches. I can adapt lengths somewhat shorter if you have them. Thinner wa lls (like .049) are better. > > I also need several pieces round 4130 tubing in about 0.5 diameter, OD or I D, in similar lengths, again thin walls, for jury struts and other apps. > > When Dillsburg went out of biz, ACS and Wicks sure raised their prices. I thought I had all I would need, but not so. I hate to cut into some older i ntact struts for pieces, and some of what I have is in bad shape or just too short. So I am hoping to get better pricing from a fellow Pieter. > > Rather than cluttering up the board with many responses, please email me w hat you have by direct email. If you think you might need what you have lef t over, I certainly understand. > > Thanks, > Tim in central TX > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listw" target="_blank" href ="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://========= ============= > > > > > 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Cutting 4130
From: "aerocarjake" <flight.jake(at)gmail.com>
Date: Feb 07, 2014
hanks for the kudos.... Can't imagine cutting all the 4130 without this small bandsaw. It's from Harbor Freight but it is the only portable metal bandsaw I know of hhat "twists" the blade so you can cut an infinite length or width of stock. I use reaal good "milwaukee" 24 tooth blades. It will cut through 4130 plate all day long with no fluids. You sure so need hearing protection, however. Picked up some brand new Honda ATV brake calipers and the welder comes again in two weeks - gotta get more done on the landing gear before he arrives..... Having a great journey and some of the folks on this list are the best part........ -------- Jake Schultz - curator, Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418305#418305 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/2014_02_07_14_37_30_689.png ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: How to figure the volume of your center section fuel
tank
From: "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Feb 07, 2014
NINETEEN GALLONS? You can fit that much in your Tiger Moth-ish center section wing tank, Terry? Wow. I tried calculating the approximate volume of a classic-styled Air Camper center section tank (no deHavilland hump) by using AutoCAD. With both the front and the back of the tank sloped to a center drain, it came out less than 12 gallons if I remember correctly. If you're able to get 19 gallons and you fly a small Continental, you'll be able to circumnavigate the earth, unrefueled ;o) Throttle it back to 55% power and you can loiter at 500' for about six hours and still have 30 minute VFR fuel reserves! -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418323#418323 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: How to figure the volume of your center section
fuel tank
From: Brian Kenney <brian.kenney(at)live.ca>
Date: Feb 08, 2014
I have 17.2 US gal in my 65 hp Piet the capacity comes in handy because most trips you can go there and back with the fuel you can carry. It takes discipline not to fill it all the time. That's a lot of weight. Sent from my iPad > On Feb 8, 2014, at 3:00 PM, "taildrags" wrote: > > > NINETEEN GALLONS? You can fit that much in your Tiger Moth-ish center section wing tank, Terry? Wow. I tried calculating the approximate volume of a classic-styled Air Camper center section tank (no deHavilland hump) by using AutoCAD. With both the front and the back of the tank sloped to a center drain, it came out less than 12 gallons if I remember correctly. If you're able to get 19 gallons and you fly a small Continental, you'll be able to circumnavigate the earth, unrefueled ;o) Throttle it back to 55% power and you can loiter at 500' for about six hours and still have 30 minute VFR fuel reserves! > > -------- > Oscar Zuniga > Medford, OR > Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" > A75 power > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418323#418323 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ray Krause <raykrause(at)frontiernet.net>
Subject: Re: Cobra Torches...
Date: Feb 07, 2014
Oscar, Thanks for your opinion, which I respect highly. I did buy a kit of the Cobra torches because, as you said, they make it look easy. When he welded the 4130 for me, I took it home and beat on it a little with the hammer, it did not come apart. Tomorrow I will bisect it and see what the welds look like on the inside. The mild steel he welded had good penetration, but it was thin. I will try some .090 and see how it works. Not sure my regulators will deliver 4PSI. It is all research! My thought was that the Cobra would be about the same cost as getting all the setup for the smaller standard torches. But if I have to get new regulators, I will be spending even more money! Oh well, it's nothing money can't fix! Thanks, Ray Krause Sent from my iPad > On Feb 7, 2014, at 8:16 AM, "tools" wrote: > > > These things are really controversial... However, I like mine. > > I haven't really figured out how to use them correctly though. Like everything, the demos are a bit misleading, but only in they make it seem easier than it is. However, they're CLEARLY doing it! And I really believe it'll do things a regular OA torch won't (though someone REALLY skilled could prove that wrong I suppose). > > Like all OA sets, super versatile. I did weld some 4130 once early on and made the MOST BEAUTIFUL looking welds ever... then tried some testing on them. Turned out there was NO PENETRATION at all. Really weird. > > So, while I also recommend them, I would also recommend really spending some time with them until you really figure them out. Like ALL tools, they require skill. There's nothing magic about them. I think most of the naysayers are folks who are good at OTHER OA torches and figure if they can't make these work, they're smoke and mirrors. When it's probably more a case of they just don't know how to make THESE torches work. > > They really are super nice guys who will do their level best to get you going. I also recommend good regulators that'll do well at lower levels. Like most chinese stuff, it's a matter of hit and miss, and longevity. Good regulators out of the gate will most likely save a lot of frustration. > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418282#418282 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: glenschweizer(at)yahoo.com
Subject: Re: How to figure the volume of your center section
fuel tank
Date: Feb 07, 2014
Hi Terry Thanks for the link Ihave all of Uncle Tony's books. Like a bonehead, I just asked instead of asking our uncle. Thanks Glen Sent from my iPhone > On Feb 6, 2014, at 6:58 PM, "jarheadpilot82" wrote: > > > Glen, > > Here is a link to a Tony Bingelis article about aluminum fuel tanks- > > http://members.eaa.org/home/homebuilders/authors/bingelis/4How%20About%20An%20Aluminum%20Fuel%20Tank_.html > > Hopefully, it can answer a lot of your questions. > > -------- > Semper Fi, > > Terry Hand > Athens, GA > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418247#418247 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: glenschweizer(at)yahoo.com
Subject: Re: Cobra Torches...
Date: Feb 07, 2014
Hi Ray When welding anything,the strength of that weld is going to depend on many factors. The heat has to be suficient to melt all material to a temp Witch allows them to flow into one another(100 percent penetration). Lack of porosity is also critical. That is controlled with proper gas regulation and position within the flame cone where the. Welding takes place. The low volume torches might do very well for thinner material but maybe not so well on thicker stuff. When you. Test your welds the material welded should break before the weld after thAt. Cut or file the weld so that you can do a magnified inspection of your welds. Short of. X-ray that's been the most reliable method I've found to really study them damned welds. Practice inspect practice practice Sent from my iPhone > On Feb 7, 2014, at 8:26 PM, Ray Krause wrote: > > > Oscar, > > Thanks for your opinion, which I respect highly. I did buy a kit of the Cobra torches because, as you said, they make it look easy. When he welded the 4130 for me, I took it home and beat on it a little with the hammer, it did not come apart. Tomorrow I will bisect it and see what the welds look like on the inside. The mild steel he welded had good penetration, but it was thin. I will try some .090 and see how it works. Not sure my regulators will deliver 4PSI. It is all research! My thought was that the Cobra would be about the same cost as getting all the setup for the smaller standard torches. But if I have to get new regulators, I will be spending even more money! Oh well, it's nothing money can't fix! > > Thanks, > > Ray Krause > > Sent from my iPad > >> On Feb 7, 2014, at 8:16 AM, "tools" wrote: >> >> >> These things are really controversial... However, I like mine. >> >> I haven't really figured out how to use them correctly though. Like everything, the demos are a bit misleading, but only in they make it seem easier than it is. However, they're CLEARLY doing it! And I really believe it'll do things a regular OA torch won't (though someone REALLY skilled could prove that wrong I suppose). >> >> Like all OA sets, super versatile. I did weld some 4130 once early on and made the MOST BEAUTIFUL looking welds ever... then tried some testing on them. Turned out there was NO PENETRATION at all. Really weird. >> >> So, while I also recommend them, I would also recommend really spending some time with them until you really figure them out. Like ALL tools, they require skill. There's nothing magic about them. I think most of the naysayers are folks who are good at OTHER OA torches and figure if they can't make these work, they're smoke and mirrors. When it's probably more a case of they just don't know how to make THESE torches work. >> >> They really are super nice guys who will do their level best to get you going. I also recommend good regulators that'll do well at lower levels. Like most chinese stuff, it's a matter of hit and miss, and longevity. Good regulators out of the gate will most likely save a lot of frustration. >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418282#418282 > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 07, 2014
From: "mdsalern(at)yahoo.com" <mdsalern(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Cutting 4130
Dear Mr. Dodson: You have the largest motor I have seen on a Pietenpol. What kind of climb figures are you getting? Thanks, Mike Salerno Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Cobra Torches...
From: "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Feb 08, 2014
Ray; your reply about making the torch work look easy should have been addressed to "tools", not me. I wouldn't know a Cobra torch from a Cobra CB radio. -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418360#418360 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: How to figure the volume of your center section fuel
tank
From: "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Feb 08, 2014
Well, it looks like I'm in good company here. When I had the fuel tank out of my airplane years ago, I wanted to determine just how much fuel it would hold and I did the gallon jug thing too. Funny thing is, I had the bright idea of marking the float rod (I have a nose tank with the J-3 style rod and float indicator)- and when I started pouring in the first jug of water, I noticed that Corky had already filed some shallow but clear marks onto the rod at 1 gallon increments. Well, OK, but I was already set up to do it so I went ahead and checked Corky's work. Why? ;o) The marks on the float rod are not distinct enough to see from the cockpit, but they are helpful when you pull up to the fuel pump because you already have a good idea of how many gallons it'll take to top it off without spilling avgas over the cowling. Most of the time ;o) My wife is always telling me that I can't just take her word for anything, I've got to check things out for myself. Maybe she's right... I'll have to check that out. -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418362#418362 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ray Krause <raykrause(at)frontiernet.net>
Subject: Re: Cobra Torches...
Date: Feb 08, 2014
Thanks! This has been a great learning experience, just asking for user's opinion. That's what so great about this forum. Thanks again, Ray Krause Sent from my iPad > On Feb 7, 2014, at 8:57 PM, glenschweizer(at)yahoo.com wrote: > > > Hi Ray > When welding anything,the strength of that weld is going to depend on many factors. The heat has to be suficient to melt all material to a temp > Witch allows them to flow into one another(100 percent penetration). Lack of porosity is also critical. That is controlled with proper gas regulation and position within the flame cone where the. Welding takes place. The low volume torches might do very well for thinner material but maybe not so well on thicker stuff. > When you. Test your welds the material welded should break before the weld after thAt. Cut or file the weld so that you can do a magnified inspection of your welds. Short of. X-ray that's been the most reliable method I've found to really study them damned welds. Practice inspect practice practice > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Feb 7, 2014, at 8:26 PM, Ray Krause wrote: >> >> >> Oscar, >> >> Thanks for your opinion, which I respect highly. I did buy a kit of the Cobra torches because, as you said, they make it look easy. When he welded the 4130 for me, I took it home and beat on it a little with the hammer, it did not come apart. Tomorrow I will bisect it and see what the welds look like on the inside. The mild steel he welded had good penetration, but it was thin. I will try some .090 and see how it works. Not sure my regulators will deliver 4PSI. It is all research! My thought was that the Cobra would be about the same cost as getting all the setup for the smaller standard torches. But if I have to get new regulators, I will be spending even more money! Oh well, it's nothing money can't fix! >> >> Thanks, >> >> Ray Krause >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >>> On Feb 7, 2014, at 8:16 AM, "tools" wrote: >>> >>> >>> These things are really controversial... However, I like mine. >>> >>> I haven't really figured out how to use them correctly though. Like everything, the demos are a bit misleading, but only in they make it seem easier than it is. However, they're CLEARLY doing it! And I really believe it'll do things a regular OA torch won't (though someone REALLY skilled could prove that wrong I suppose). >>> >>> Like all OA sets, super versatile. I did weld some 4130 once early on and made the MOST BEAUTIFUL looking welds ever... then tried some testing on them. Turned out there was NO PENETRATION at all. Really weird. >>> >>> So, while I also recommend them, I would also recommend really spending some time with them until you really figure them out. Like ALL tools, they require skill. There's nothing magic about them. I think most of the naysayers are folks who are good at OTHER OA torches and figure if they can't make these work, they're smoke and mirrors. When it's probably more a case of they just don't know how to make THESE torches work. >>> >>> They really are super nice guys who will do their level best to get you going. I also recommend good regulators that'll do well at lower levels. Like most chinese stuff, it's a matter of hit and miss, and longevity. Good regulators out of the gate will most likely save a lot of frustration. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Read this topic online here: >>> >>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418282#418282 > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Feb 20 to 24, hangar gathering, doing "stuff", Cha
From: "pringljo" <joseph.pringle(at)gmail.com>
Date: Feb 08, 2014
I would also like to come up for at least Saturday. I don't have anything specific to work on, but I always enjoy hanging out with Piet folks, and learn a lot by watching others. Can you fill me in on driving directions? Also, do I understand that if I bring some 9mm ammo, I might get to burn it up? -------- Joe Pringle Atlanta, GA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418375#418375 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Scout's got wings
From: "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Feb 08, 2014
Today was the day.... hung the wings. The last time the wings were on the airplane was December 2012, when Steve Dortch, John Kuhfahl, Norris Warner, Craig Wall, my brother David, and a cast of extras all helped me take the airplane apart and load it into the big Ryder truck for the trip from TX to Oregon. Now it's back together with all new wing and strut attach hardware and I just need to reconnect the control cables and replace the wing gap fairings and the airframe will be whole again. The list of to-do items is getting shorter. I should be able to put fuel in it in a few more weekends. Got a fishing trip up Jake's way the weekend after next for some winter steelhead at Grays Harbor, WA, but that's just a minor distraction ;o) -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418392#418392 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0611_859.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ray Krause <raykrause(at)frontiernet.net>
Subject: Re: Scout's got wings
Date: Feb 08, 2014
Looks like a bright sunny day up there in Oregon! Nice day to give that ol' Bird dome wings. Good work. Ray Krause Sent from my iPad > On Feb 8, 2014, at 8:01 PM, "taildrags" wrote: > > > Today was the day.... hung the wings. The last time the wings were on the airplane was December 2012, when Steve Dortch, John Kuhfahl, Norris Warner, Craig Wall, my brother David, and a cast of extras all helped me take the airplane apart and load it into the big Ryder truck for the trip from TX to Oregon. Now it's back together with all new wing and strut attach hardware and I just need to reconnect the control cables and replace the wing gap fairings and the airframe will be whole again. > > The list of to-do items is getting shorter. I should be able to put fuel in it in a few more weekends. Got a fishing trip up Jake's way the weekend after next for some winter steelhead at Grays Harbor, WA, but that's just a minor distraction ;o) > > -------- > Oscar Zuniga > Medford, OR > Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" > A75 power > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418392#418392 > > > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0611_859.jpg > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Feb 20 to 24, hangar gathering, doing "stuff", Cha
From: "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Feb 08, 2014
The answer to your second question... yes. At a pretty good pace. The first question, the formal addy is 335 Castlerock Ln, Chickamauga GA 30707. Informally, the closest exit off I 75 is Battlefield. The closest exit off I 59 is Trenton. Off I 24 is tougher, Broad Street in Chattanooga TN... Basically, there's Chickamauga National Battlefield Park. Downtown Chickamauga is about 3 miles south of that, on Highway 27. Three more miles south of Chickamauga on Highway 341 is where I live. The intersection of HW 341 and Bonds Rd. You can only go west. About 1/2 mile from there is a blue street sign for Castlerock Ln. you can only go north. At the end of that, about 1500 feet, is the place. Call from anywhere, we'll dispatch you in, 423 580 1383, or 423 596 7770. Look forward to meeting you! Tools Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418398#418398 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Cobra Torches...
From: "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Feb 08, 2014
Exactly the same. Also known as at least one other propietary name... Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418399#418399 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 09, 2014
Subject: Re: Scout's got wings
From: John Kuhfahl <kuhlcouper(at)gmail.com>
Great Oscar! Can't wait to help Steve hang his...John On Sat, Feb 8, 2014 at 10:01 PM, taildrags wrote: > > Today was the day.... hung the wings. The last time the wings were on the > airplane was December 2012, when Steve Dortch, John Kuhfahl, Norris Warner, > Craig Wall, my brother David, and a cast of extras all helped me take the > airplane apart and load it into the big Ryder truck for the trip from TX to > Oregon. Now it's back together with all new wing and strut attach hardware > and I just need to reconnect the control cables and replace the wing gap > fairings and the airframe will be whole again. > > The list of to-do items is getting shorter. I should be able to put fuel > in it in a few more weekends. Got a fishing trip up Jake's way the weekend > after next for some winter steelhead at Grays Harbor, WA, but that's just a > minor distraction ;o) > > -------- > Oscar Zuniga > Medford, OR > Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" > A75 power > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418392#418392 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0611_859.jpg > > -- John Kuhfahl, Lt Col USAF (Ret), President, KUHLCOUPER LLC ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Feb 20 to 24, hangar gathering, doing "stuff", Cha
From: "gsnewsome" <newfaithkat(at)windstream.net>
Date: Feb 09, 2014
Been to Chickamauga GA once and that was back in high school when we played Gordon Lee in Football... Long drive and cold night. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418408#418408 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Feb 20 to 24, hangar gathering, doing "stuff", Cha
From: "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Feb 09, 2014
Chickamauga to Savannah is a decent haul, especially for a HS football game! Got a couple other folks coming from Savannah... Think they're bringing oysters for a roast. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418414#418414 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Feb 20 to 24, hangar gathering, doing "stuff", Cha
From: "gsnewsome" <newfaithkat(at)windstream.net>
Date: Feb 09, 2014
That would be a haul. I lived in the surbs of Atlanta back then. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418415#418415 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Feb 20 to 24, hangar gathering, doing "stuff", Cha
From: "gsnewsome" <newfaithkat(at)windstream.net>
Date: Feb 09, 2014
burbs... Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418417#418417 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Feb 20 to 24, hangar gathering, doing "stuff",
Cha
From: Gardiner Mason <airlion2(at)gmail.com>
Date: Feb 09, 2014
When are he savannah boys coming up? I love oysters. I will be bringing control horns up to weld and learn how to. Thanks, Airlion from Lagrange Sent from my iPad On Feb 9, 2014, at 10:26 AM, "tools" wrote: > > Chickamauga to Savannah is a decent haul, especially for a HS football game! > > Got a couple other folks coming from Savannah... Think they're bringing oysters for a roast. > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418414#418414 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Feb 20 to 24, hangar gathering, doing "stuff", Cha
From: "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Feb 09, 2014
I think all four days. Prob save the oyster roast for Sat night anyway, so no worries! Looking forward to making some control horns. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418419#418419 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Scout's got wings
Date: Feb 09, 2014
Good job, Oscar! Gary Boothe NX308MB -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of taildrags Sent: Saturday, February 08, 2014 8:01 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Scout's got wings --> Today was the day.... hung the wings. The last time the wings were on the airplane was December 2012, when Steve Dortch, John Kuhfahl, Norris Warner, Craig Wall, my brother David, and a cast of extras all helped me take the airplane apart and load it into the big Ryder truck for the trip from TX to Oregon. Now it's back together with all new wing and strut attach hardware and I just need to reconnect the control cables and replace the wing gap fairings and the airframe will be whole again. The list of to-do items is getting shorter. I should be able to put fuel in it in a few more weekends. Got a fishing trip up Jake's way the weekend after next for some winter steelhead at Grays Harbor, WA, but that's just a minor distraction ;o) -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418392#418392 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0611_859.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Scout's got wings
From: "GNflyer" <rayeh48(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Feb 09, 2014
Looks real good but kinda clean. if you need some good Texas dust to make her feel at home I can mail you some. might make it start on the first blade.Raymond Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418428#418428 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 09, 2014
Subject: Performing aerobatic maneuvers-the groundloop
From: Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com>
http://www.homebuiltairplanes.com/forums/rules-regulations-flight-safety-better-pilots/1771-taildragger-groudloop-technique.html I about laughed my tail off. Blue Skies, Steve D. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Michael Weston <smikewest(at)comcast.net>
Subject: airfoils, xfoils
Date: Feb 09, 2014
hi out there,it's cold here in minneapolis, so i'm trying to warm up by the computer. does anybody here have an xfoil formatted dat file of the pietenpol airfoil? i understand that there are several versions. don't really care which as i'm just going to play with it on my laptop. i've got one riblet to compare with, but don't worry, i'll not be shouting about the superiority of one or the other. i just want to play. thanks. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 09, 2014
Subject: Re: texas piet. flyin
From: Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com>
Jim, Set a date and I will do my best to come. It does not have to be a big gathering. Just Pietennuts. April or May would be good for me, Any earlier and there is no way I could make it. Of course I may not make it if my plane is not ready. Life keeps getting in the way. Blue Skies, Steve D On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 10:20 PM, Braniff1966 wrote: > > still looking into it.. not much interest so far > > > jim > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418251#418251 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: More files from the Galacticly inept Piet builder
From: "bdewenter" <anonymouse(at)woh.rr.com>
Date: Feb 10, 2014
To paraphrase Forest Gump, I'm not a smart man...but I know where to find advice from Tony Bingellis... The photo below show my progress attempting to make the center section "U" fitting. I made some progress from A to B to C. Just like the public defender said in the movie "My Cousin Vinnie"... I'm getting better... A is my first attempt without the guidance of Tony. B is my seconds attempt AFTER reading page 48 and 49 of the Yellow Bingellis book. One of the two bends has too little radius. C is a decent fitting needing more polishing of the edges with some 200 grit sandpaper. I'm trying to get all these pieces ready for 'Tools' Toolapalooza 2014 coming up Feb 20-24 in GA. I'm going to see about getting some welding experience on some scraps of 4130 and if I'm lucky get these fitting done that weekend. -------- Bob 'Early Builder' Dewenter Dayton OH Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418458#418458 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/bingellis_yellow_page49_159.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/abc_751.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 10, 2014
From: Dan Yocum <yocum137(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: airfoils, xfoils
Yup. Attached. On 02/09/2014 06:29 PM, Michael Weston wrote: > > hi out there,it's cold here in minneapolis, so i'm trying to warm up by the computer. does anybody here have an xfoil formatted dat file of the pietenpol airfoil? i understand that there are several versions. don't really care which as i'm just going to play with it on my laptop. i've got one riblet to compare with, but don't worry, i'll not be shouting about the superiority of one or the other. i just want to play. thanks. > > > > -- Dan Yocum yocum137(at)gmail.com Pietenpol Airfoil - smoothed - more points 1.0 0.003324511 0.983333333 0.007371069 0.966666667 0.011419437 0.95 0.015466848 0.933333333 0.019511597 0.916666667 0.023551872 0.9 0.027585375 0.883333333 0.031608982 0.866666667 0.035618303 0.85 0.03960711 0.833333333 0.043566745 0.816666667 0.047486195 0.8 0.051353603 0.783333333 0.055159453 0.766666667 0.058899455 0.75 0.062574057 0.733333333 0.066184717 0.716666667 0.069730517 0.7 0.07320774 0.683333333 0.076610323 0.666666667 0.079926447 0.65 0.083131377 0.633333333 0.086184472 0.616666667 0.089043745 0.6 0.091688965 0.583333333 0.09413457 0.566666667 0.096417845 0.55 0.09857832 0.533333333 0.100642113 0.516666667 0.102616648 0.5 0.104489513 0.483333333 0.106232118 0.466666667 0.107811775 0.45 0.109204015 0.433333333 0.110397992 0.416666667 0.111394568 0.4 0.112202348 0.383333333 0.112831847 0.366666667 0.1132884 0.35 0.113566172 0.333333333 0.113642325 0.316666667 0.113472383 0.3 0.113003743 0.283333333 0.112224492 0.266666667 0.111181008 0.25 0.10993856 0.233333333 0.108552502 0.216666667 0.107055488 0.2 0.105434702 0.191666667 0.104552952 0.183333333 0.103599495 0.175 0.10255355 0.166666667 0.101397348 0.158333333 0.100114312 0.15 0.098677812 0.141666667 0.097041682 0.133333333 0.095147857 0.125 0.09295502 0.116666667 0.09048015 0.108333333 0.087785458 0.1 0.084889483 0.091666667 0.081725082 0.0875 0.080017742 0.083333333 0.078223943 0.079166667 0.07634958 0.075 0.074404158 0.070833333 0.072397613 0.066666667 0.070337138 0.0625 0.068225007 0.058333333 0.066058712 0.054166667 0.063832023 0.05 0.061536152 0.045833333 0.059161227 0.041666667 0.056698157 0.0375 0.054140107 0.033333333 0.051483192 0.029166667 0.048726137 0.025 0.045868575 0.020833333 0.042907297 0.016666667 0.039829513 0.0125 0.036598417 0.008453424 0.033213243 0.006115179 0.031034972 0.004966654 0.029847172 0.003854819 0.028565183 0.002820217 0.027168667 0.00191922 0.0256471 0.001196105 0.02400983 0.000651377 0.022282095 0.000262064 0.020486015 3.60383E-05 0.018636102 2.92697E-05 0.016756457 0.000328321 0.01489865 0.001009116 0.013144177 0.002084945 0.011581541 0.003495569 0.010275528 0.005132964 0.009249303 0.006876884 0.00848373 0.008624848 0.007930212 0.011904731 0.007238628 0.014817507 0.006840207 0.017452715 0.006573168 0.020833333 0.00630151 0.025 0.006022723 0.029166667 0.00577189 0.033333333 0.005531857 0.0375 0.0052941 0.041666667 0.005053488 0.045833333 0.004805994 0.05 0.004547607 0.054166667 0.004274298 0.058333333 0.00398298 0.0625 0.003672644 0.066666667 0.00334557 0.070833333 0.003008542 0.075 0.002672957 0.079166667 0.002352671 0.083333333 0.002061122 0.0875 0.001808389 0.091666667 0.001598386 0.1 0.001286121 0.108333333 0.00104599 0.116666667 0.000812114 0.125 0.000599512 0.133333333 0.00046095 0.141666667 0.000421112 0.15 0.000470511 0.158333333 0.000591414 0.166666667 0.000772877 0.175 0.00101435 0.183333333 0.00131906 0.191666667 0.001686423 0.2 0.002109238 0.216666667 0.003075571 0.233333333 0.004132453 0.25 0.005220542 0.266666667 0.00630288 0.283333333 0.007353488 0.3 0.008337853 0.316666667 0.009195705 0.333333333 0.009868694 0.35 0.010340993 0.366666667 0.010630858 0.383333333 0.010764645 0.4 0.010764426 0.416666667 0.010645592 0.433333333 0.010418831 0.45 0.010092507 0.466666667 0.009672133 0.483333333 0.009157453 0.5 0.008541663 0.516666667 0.007820073 0.533333333 0.007005625 0.55 0.006139117 0.566666667 0.005277438 0.583333333 0.004470891 0.6 0.003749557 0.616666667 0.003125017 0.633333333 0.002597465 0.65 0.002162994 0.666666667 0.001817907 0.683333333 0.001558603 0.7 0.001378084 0.716666667 0.001262367 0.733333333 0.001190767 0.75 0.001140826 0.766666667 0.001095045 0.783333333 0.001044149 0.8 0.000985083 0.816666667 0.000917829 0.833333333 0.000843401 0.85 0.000763025 0.866666667 0.000677896 0.883333333 0.000589157 0.9 0.000497944 0.916666667 0.000405451 0.933333333 0.000313007 0.95 0.000222259 0.966666667 0.000135613 0.983333333 5.75147E-05 1.0 0.000000271 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 10, 2014
From: Dan Yocum <yocum137(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: texas piet. flyin
On 02/06/2014 10:20 PM, Braniff1966 wrote: > > still looking into it.. not much interest so far Yeah, I'd expect about as much since most people have figured out that you're the same Jim Hyde that came onto the list and threw a hissy fit about our generous hosting provider, Matt Dralle. I haven't been watching the list very closely, but I haven't seen or heard of any sort of formal apology for that tirade. My guess is that we're not going to see one, but I'd be happy to be proven wrong. Dan > jim -- Dan Yocum yocum137(at)gmail.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 10, 2014
Subject: Piet airfoils
From: Timothy Willis <timwillis01(at)gmail.com>
Mike, You might try a post to airfoil(at)yahoogroups.com The webmaster and guru Mike Shuck may know of or have a plot. Tim in central TX From: Michael Weston <smikewest(at)comcast.net> Subject: Pietenpol-List: airfoils, xfoils hi out there,it's cold here in minneapolis, so i'm trying to warm up by the computer. does anybody here have an xfoil formatted dat file of the pietenpol airfoil? i understand that there are several versions. don't really care which as i'm just going to play with it on my laptop. i've got one riblet to compare with, but don't worry, i'll not be shouting about the superiority of one or the other. i just want to play. thanks. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Scout's got wings
From: "aerocarjake" <flight.jake(at)gmail.com>
Date: Feb 10, 2014
Looks great...!! The lower wings appear to be missing......? HA, just kidding. Whenever I tell people I am building a 1930s airplane they ask if it's a biplane...! J -------- Jake Schultz - curator, Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418492#418492 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Scout's got wings
From: "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org>
Date: Feb 11, 2014
Looks good Oscar. Can't wait to see it. -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418527#418527 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: texas piet. flyin
From: "TriScout" <apfelcyber(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Feb 11, 2014
In his defense, I spoke on the phone w/Jim just before leaving on a trip. He's good people. Just have to understand 'old school'... I've flown w/a lot of guys from the Braniff One era. Nothing wrong w/a little writer's turret's. Especially after a few beers after a long haul. It was all meant to be in good fun I am sure. -------- KLNC A65-8 N2308C AN Hardware Airframe 724TT W72CK-42 Sensenich Standard Factory GN-1 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418544#418544 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: More files from the Galacticly inept Piet builder
From: "DaveG601XL" <david.m.gallagher(at)ge.com>
Date: Feb 11, 2014
Bob, My eyeball is certainly no substitute for an accurate measurement, but I struggle to see what is wrong with item B. Assuming this is 4130, it has a bend radius of 1T. If that is .090 sheet, the bend radius is .090 and a 3/32 bit would be a close radius gage at .09375. It sure looks like more than a 3/32 bits worth of radius to me. I have more issues with C as it is not a 90 degree bend. How, for example, would you weld two bends made like this together for the center section fitting shown on the Piet drawing in the background of your picture? I think you could probably back up to item B and just straighten it up a bit. Now to continue quoting from My Cousin Vinny, my brain is not as smart as a "Craftsman model 1019 Laboratory Edition Signature Series torque wrench. The kind used by Caltech high energy physicists and NASA engineers," so if anyone else wants to correct me, go ahead and chime in. Good luck. I just made all the CS fittings last year, but have no handy pictures of them. -------- David Gallagher Zodiac 601 XL-B: flying, 250+ hours now Next project under construction: Finish my father's Aircamper Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418545#418545 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: More files from the Galacticly inept Piet builder
From: "bdewenter" <anonymouse(at)woh.rr.com>
Date: Feb 11, 2014
Careful Dave, I know you. I'll send Russ and Dave over.... Glad to see your on the forum. And I'm still hoping for a tech counselor visit from you when it warms up this spring. -------- Bob 'Early Builder' Dewenter Dayton OH Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418546#418546 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: More files from the Galacticly inept Piet builder
From: airlion2(at)gmail.com
Date: Feb 11, 2014
Re. Hey bob. I see that you are going to the Chikamauga party on the 21st. I plan to go too so I will see you there. Gardiner Sent from my iPad > On Feb 11, 2014, at 2:51 PM, "bdewenter" wrote: > > > Careful Dave, I know you. I'll send Russ and Dave over.... > Glad to see your on the forum. And I'm still hoping for a tech counselor visit from you when it warms up this spring. > > -------- > Bob 'Early Builder' Dewenter > Dayton OH > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418546#418546 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <jack(at)bedfordlandings.com>
Subject: Re: More files from the Galacticly inept Piet builder
Date: Feb 11, 2014
Careful with your math here. A 3/32" drill bit is 0.09375" in DIAMETER. Its radius is half that or 0.046875". If that is a close fit with the bend radius the radius is indeed too tight. Jack Phillips NX899JP Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of DaveG601XL Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2014 2:20 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: More files from the Galacticly inept Piet builder Bob, My eyeball is certainly no substitute for an accurate measurement, but I struggle to see what is wrong with item B. Assuming this is 4130, it has a bend radius of 1T. If that is .090 sheet, the bend radius is .090 and a 3/32 bit would be a close radius gage at .09375. It sure looks like more than a 3/32 bits worth of radius to me. I have more issues with C as it is not a 90 degree bend. How, for example, would you weld two bends made like this together for the center section fitting shown on the Piet drawing in the background of your picture? I think you could probably back up to item B and just straighten it up a bit. Now to continue quoting from My Cousin Vinny, my brain is not as smart as a "Craftsman model 1019 Laboratory Edition Signature Series torque wrench. The kind used by Caltech high energy physicists and NASA engineers," so if anyone else wants to correct me, go ahead and chime in. Good luck. I just made all the CS fittings last year, but have no handy pictures of them. -------- David Gallagher Zodiac 601 XL-B: flying, 250+ hours now Next project under construction: Finish my father's Aircamper Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418545#418545 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: More files from the Galacticly inept Piet builder
From: "DaveG601XL" <david.m.gallagher(at)ge.com>
Date: Feb 11, 2014
Thanks Jack, I depressed the clutch and disengaged my brain prior to thinking on that one. 3/16 drill bit. Bob, are you building at New Carlisle or live close by? It would be a short flight for me. Russ and I could hop on over in the Zenith some weekend. -------- David Gallagher Zodiac 601 XL-B: flying, 250+ hours now Next project under construction: Finish my father's Aircamper Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418549#418549 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: More files from the Galacticly inept Piet builder
From: "bdewenter" <anonymouse(at)woh.rr.com>
Date: Feb 11, 2014
Dave I talked to you about a year ago before Gary passed. As now we were waiting for warm weather. I'm in Centerville (so you could fly to Wright Brothers) -------- Bob 'Early Builder' Dewenter Dayton OH Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418552#418552 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Jack
From: "bdewenter" <anonymouse(at)woh.rr.com>
Date: Feb 11, 2014
Jack, I respect your experience. Would you change part C ? -------- Bob 'Early Builder' Dewenter Dayton OH Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418553#418553 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: More files from the Galacticly inept Piet builder
From: "bdewenter" <anonymouse(at)woh.rr.com>
Date: Feb 11, 2014
Jack, I appreciate your experience. Would you change part "C" ? -------- Bob 'Early Builder' Dewenter Dayton OH Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418554#418554 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <jack(at)bedfordlandings.com>
Subject: Jack
Date: Feb 11, 2014
To be honest, I've already deleted the original email. Send the pics again Jack Phillips NX899JP Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of bdewenter Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2014 5:04 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Jack Jack, I respect your experience. Would you change part C ? -------- Bob 'Early Builder' Dewenter Dayton OH Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418553#418553 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Greg Cardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: More files from the Galacticly inept Piet builder
Date: Feb 11, 2014
Hi Bob, One other suggestion would be to polish the edges prior to bending to remove the stress risers. Polishing after bending only polishes the edges, the stress risers will remain beneath the surface. Greg Cardinal ----- Original Message ----- From: "bdewenter" <anonymouse(at)woh.rr.com> Sent: Monday, February 10, 2014 8:31 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: More files from the Galacticly inept Piet builder > > To paraphrase Forest Gump, I'm not a smart man...but I know where to find > advice from Tony Bingellis... > > The photo below show my progress attempting to make the center section "U" > fitting. I made some progress from A to B to C. > > Just like the public defender said in the movie "My Cousin Vinnie"... I'm > getting better... > > A is my first attempt without the guidance of Tony. > > B is my seconds attempt AFTER reading page 48 and 49 of the Yellow > Bingellis book. One of the two bends has too little radius. > > C is a decent fitting needing more polishing of the edges with some 200 > grit sandpaper. > > I'm trying to get all these pieces ready for 'Tools' Toolapalooza 2014 > coming up Feb 20-24 in GA. I'm going to see about getting some welding > experience on some scraps of 4130 and if I'm lucky get these fitting done > that weekend. > > -------- > Bob 'Early Builder' Dewenter > Dayton OH > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418458#418458 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/bingellis_yellow_page49_159.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/abc_751.jpg > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Ailerons, up and down
From: "tkreiner" <tkreiner(at)gmail.com>
Date: Feb 11, 2014
After reading this thread some 5 weeks ago, I've awoken with the question in my head, as Giacommo did, as to how and why differential aileron control works. So, bear with me, and let's have a little fun with this on a cold February night! Yup, even here in Houston it's pretty cold yet... but I digress... Imagine if you can, that the control wires are only attached to the lower aileron horns, and further, that the wires are in fact tiny diameter rigid wires, such that, if they were pulled or pushed, there would be neither slack nor stretch. (In our actual aileron controls, we want both of the lower horns to be identical, both of the top horns to be identical, and both the left hand an right hand stick horns to be identical.) Still with me? Great! Let's continue... Now, when the stick is moved to the left... the eye attached to this rigid cable moves exactly 2.0 inches. Conversely, when the stick is moved to the right, the eye on the other side of the stick moves exactly 2.0 inches, as well. If this weren't the case, there would a larger aileron angle on one side than the other, and we just don't want that. So, if the eye on the stick 'horn moves identically side to side, the aileron lower control horns do as well. Are you beginning to see the point? Maybe not, so let's delve further into this... The upper aileron control horns are really along for the ride... in a sense, because they only balance the movement from one side to another. So, we ask, how are ailerons made to operate differentially? Simple, thru design geometry of the control system, specifically the horns. Since the 'horn moves let us say, 2 in. fore, and 2 in. aft... the geometry of the horn is the only consideration needed to create differential control. What the airframe designer does is determine how much displacement he can design into the control system, and then adjust the horn angles and lengths to get the displacement and angular motion he desires. In the attachment, you'll see some angles, and some dimensions - these are looking at the left hand aileron control horn from the cockpit. For the moment, forget about the top aileron horn, as, like I stated earlier, for our purpose, it's only along for the ride. The attachment will require a little thought to understand, but you'll get it quickly. Prior to moving the ailerons, the stick will be in the neutral position, and accordingly, the line labeled N is where the centerline of the control horn eye will be located. When the stick is move to the right, the cable will move - in this case - 1.95 inches, pulling the aileron down. When the stick is moved to the left, that same displacement of 1.95 inches yields a larger angle, and that angle is determined solely by control horn geometry. (The angle of 41.4 deg. from a line perpendicular to the bottom of the airfoil determines the angles shown for the equal displacement yielding 15 and 20 degrees of down and up aileron, respectively.) Back to the top control horn... Whether the horn is 3 in. from the instant center, or 3 ft, doesn't matter, as the other horn will be identical, and the two horns will displace exactly the same distance. Like I said earlier, the top horns only create the balance needed in the system. Now for the bad news... the control geometry of the Piet does NOT provide the type of differential control we want in an aircraft; the angles given in the LAA document of 15 deg. up and 20 deg. down appear to be correct per the Hoopman drawings, and if you want proper differential controls, you will need to redesign your control horns on your own. Perhaps these angles work well with the FC-10 airfoil; one can only guess, as there are dozens if not hundreds of Piet's being flown with them, and they appear to be OK. There will be a small amount of cable geometry to be considered, but I thought it would be beyond the basics shown here. Shoot me comments, but DON'T SHOOT ME! -------- Tom Kreiner Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418566#418566 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/control_horn_geometry_908.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dennis Engelkenjohn" <mushface1(at)gmail.com>
Subject: elevator bellcrank
Date: Feb 11, 2014
I need some help here. According to the Hoopman plans, page 4, upper right hand corner the center of the elevator bellcrank is 9=9D from the lower longeron. This causes the upper elevator cables to drag on the leading edge of the horizontal stabilizer. What will happen if I raise the center of the bellcrank up an inch or so? Have seen many at Brodhead that just glued a piece of leather to the top of the leading edge but was wondering if I could move it slightly to avoid the rubbing? Any ideas? Dennis ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 11, 2014
Subject: Re: elevator bellcrank
From: Ken Bickers <bickers.ken(at)gmail.com>
Dennis, This is one of the recurrent items that pops up from time to time. Many builders, myself included, have been advised to raise the bell crank 2 inches. That is good advice and does the trick. The top cables for the elevators will clear the leading edge of the elevator with that 2 inch change. One change begets another. By raising the bell crank, you probably will want to consider adding pulleys to redirect the cables connecting the control stick to the forward connections on the bell crank as they pass under the seat. I stayed with the plans for the lower cable but used a pulley for redirecting the upper cable. Many others have opted to use pulleys for both cables. Cheers, Ken On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 8:16 PM, Dennis Engelkenjohn wrote: > I need some help here. According to the Hoopman plans, page 4, upper > right hand corner the center of the elevator bellcrank is 9" from the lower > longeron. This causes the upper elevator cables to drag on the leading edge > of the horizontal stabilizer. What will happen if I raise the center of the > bellcrank up an inch or so? Have seen many at Brodhead that just glued a > piece of leather to the top of the leading edge but was wondering if I > could move it slightly to avoid the rubbing? Any ideas? > Dennis > > * > > > * > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: elevator bellcrank
From: Brian Kenney <brian.kenney(at)live.ca>
Date: Feb 12, 2014
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From: "Chris" <catdesigns(at)att.net>
Subject: Re: More files from the Galacticly inept Piet builder
Date: Feb 11, 2014
Bob You didn't ask me but here is my answer. I would not use part C and it is unlikely you could make it the correct size if you tried to fix it. Part B left side is your best bend. You might be able to salvage B but it's probably not worth the effort. I think you have something wrong with your technique. I found that using wood forms, like the yellow book shows, for material this thick would crush the wood and make the bend radius too large and not produce nice bends. My results were very similar to your results. Maybe it works with aluminum but I have not tried it. What I ended up doing is taking a piece of 3/8-inch 6-inches long x 2-inch wide steel bar (scrap I picked up at a scrap metal dealer). The dimensions don't need to be exact. Make the correct radius on one edge. As others have said 4130 can have a 1xthickness bend radius for the 90 degree bend. Also, if you're trying for a 90 degree bend you will have to bend it past 90 so you will have to grind off some of the top of the bar like the book shows. In this picture http://westcoastpiet.com/images/Chris%20Tracy/images/IMG_0048.JPG you can see that I have the part to be bent sandwiched between the radiused bar and another one that acts as a backer for the fitting (in this case the rudder horn). You will want to hit the metal to be bent close to the bar so the bend all happens along the bar. I found hitting it with a hammer left marks so I use a chunk of wood or better yet a bronze rod I found at the scrap yard. For the fitting that your trying to make, I made the first 90 bend in the vice like in the picture. Then to form the U I had to clamp it off the end of the vice and use a C-clamp to hold the other end. This will require you to figure out your bend layout (like in the blue Bengals book?) but it is not hard. What you are striving for are flat side with a nice bend. Not curved like in the bottom of your part C. If you need any more help I can shoot some better pictures of the process. The best thing I made to bend parts was this. http://westcoastpiet.com/bench-top_bender.htm > It makes for easy bending and reproducibility. Chris T. Sacramento, Ca Westcoastpiet.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of bdewenter Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2014 2:05 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: More files from the Galacticly inept Piet builder --> Jack, I appreciate your experience. Would you change part "C" ? -------- Bob 'Early Builder' Dewenter Dayton OH Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418554#418554 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 12, 2014
Subject: Re: Ailerons, up and down
From: John Woods <johnwoods(at)westnet.com.au>
Tom, The way I see it, you have only told half the story. You haven't actually shown the Aileron movement above and below the horizontal. If you take your diagram a bit further and projec the same angular movement above and below the horizontal axis, pivoting through the control horn axis (hinge line??) you will find that the 20 degrees up angle gives you more aileron movement than the 15 degrees down angle. The differential is achieved by the 41.4 deg off-set from the vertical line dropped down from the hinge line. Hope this makes sense. JohnW Perth Western Australia Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/control_horn_geometry_908.jpg > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: elevator bellcrank
From: danhelsper(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 12, 2014
Dennis, The Hoopman plans are correct. Do not change them. The top elevator cable i s supposed to drag on the leading edge of the horizontal stabilizer. That's one of the distinct and wonderful aspects about this design. One of the be st days of my life was when I got to glue that patch of leather on the stab , in just the right place. In fact, I had been looking forward to it for ye ars. In addition, to some on this list, instituting the change you suggest may preclude your airplane from being called a genuine Pietenpol. And, if m emory serves, this is one of the specifically-listed disqualifiers, for con sideration of the Spirit Award, at Brodhead. Dan Helsper Puryear, TN. cc. Top Curmudgeon P.S. Not to mention that leather patch acts as a fairing, adding at least o ne or two knots to cruising speed. (Ask me how I know) P.P.S. I hope you haven't made the aileron horns of the "slab" design On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 8:16 PM, Dennis Engelkenjohn wrote: I need some help here. According to the Hoopman plans, page 4, upper right hand corner the center of the elevator bellcrank is 9=9D from the low er longeron. This causes the upper elevator cables to drag on the leading e dge of the horizontal stabilizer. What will happen if I raise the center of the bellcrank up an inch or so? Have seen many at Brodhead that just glued a piece of leather to the top of the leading edge but was wondering if I c ould move it slightly to avoid the rubbing? Any ideas? Dennis ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <jack(at)bedfordlandings.com>
Subject: Re: Ailerons, up and down
Date: Feb 12, 2014
The simple fact is, as designed the ailerons work acceptably well, as long as the gaps are sealed. There is adverse yaw (plenty of it) but that was common on planes designed in the 20's and 30's (ever flown a J-3 Cub?). That is why planes of that era tend to have large, powerful rudders. If you want a plane with perfectly balanced differential ailerons, build an RV4. I can do aileron rolls all day long in my RV4 without ever putting my feet on the rudder pedals. But that's not what I want when I fly my Pietenpol. It flies like what it is - a 1929 design. How does the RV4 do this? Its ailerons have a combination of differential action (the up side aileron travels further than the down side aileron) and a Frise type design, where the leading edge of the upgoing aileron extends down below the bottom surface of the wing which does two things - it provides somewhat of an "air balance" relieving some of the stick forces and it adds drag on the wing opposite the down-going aileron, helping to balance the drag evenly. A J-3 Cub also uses Frise type ailerons, but the design had not been refined as well in 1938. It also helps that the RV4 has a wingspan 6 feet less than the Pietenpol. I enjoy the way the Pietenpol flies. Build it per the plans and it will fly just fine. Make changes to the design to "improve" it (and I'm guilty of this, as are most builders) and you may have an acceptable airplane but it probably won't fly as well as the original design. Old Bernard knew what he was doing. Jack Phillips NX899JP Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of tkreiner Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2014 9:06 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Ailerons, up and down After reading this thread some 5 weeks ago, I've awoken with the question in my head, as Giacommo did, as to how and why differential aileron control works. So, bear with me, and let's have a little fun with this on a cold February night! Yup, even here in Houston it's pretty cold yet... but I digress... Imagine if you can, that the control wires are only attached to the lower aileron horns, and further, that the wires are in fact tiny diameter rigid wires, such that, if they were pulled or pushed, there would be neither slack nor stretch. (In our actual aileron controls, we want both of the lower horns to be identical, both of the top horns to be identical, and both the left hand an right hand stick horns to be identical.) Still with me? Great! Let's continue... Now, when the stick is moved to the left... the eye attached to this rigid cable moves exactly 2.0 inches. Conversely, when the stick is moved to the right, the eye on the other side of the stick moves exactly 2.0 inches, as well. If this weren't the case, there would a larger aileron angle on one side than the other, and we just don't want that. So, if the eye on the stick 'horn moves identically side to side, the aileron lower control horns do as well. Are you beginning to see the point? Maybe not, so let's delve further into this... The upper aileron control horns are really along for the ride... in a sense, because they only balance the movement from one side to another. So, we ask, how are ailerons made to operate differentially? Simple, thru design geometry of the control system, specifically the horns. Since the 'horn moves let us say, 2 in. fore, and 2 in. aft... the geometry of the horn is the only consideration needed to create differential control. What the airframe designer does is determine how much displacement he can design into the control system, and then adjust the horn angles and lengths to get the displacement and angular motion he desires. In the attachment, you'll see some angles, and some dimensions - these are looking at the left hand aileron control horn from the cockpit. For the moment, forget about the top aileron horn, as, like I stated earlier, for our purpose, it's only along for the ride. The attachment will require a little thought to understand, but you'll get it quickly. Prior to moving the ailerons, the stick will be in the neutral position, and accordingly, the line labeled N is where the centerline of the control horn eye will be located. When the stick is move to the right, the cable will move - in this case - 1.95 inches, pulling the aileron down. When the stick is moved to the left, that same displacement of 1.95 inches yields a larger angle, and that angle is determined solely by control horn geometry. (The angle of 41.4 deg. from a line perpendicular to the bottom of the airfoil determines the angles shown for the equal displacement yielding 15 and 20 degrees of down and up aileron, ! respectively.) Back to the top control horn... Whether the horn is 3 in. from the instant center, or 3 ft, doesn't matter, as the other horn will be identical, and the two horns will displace exactly the same distance. Like I said earlier, the top horns only create the balance needed in the system. Now for the bad news... the control geometry of the Piet does NOT provide the type of differential control we want in an aircraft; the angles given in the LAA document of 15 deg. up and 20 deg. down appear to be correct per the Hoopman drawings, and if you want proper differential controls, you will need to redesign your control horns on your own. Perhaps these angles work well with the FC-10 airfoil; one can only guess, as there are dozens if not hundreds of Piet's being flown with them, and they appear to be OK. There will be a small amount of cable geometry to be considered, but I thought it would be beyond the basics shown here. Shoot me comments, but DON'T SHOOT ME! -------- Tom Kreiner Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418566#418566 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/control_horn_geometry_908.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack" <jack(at)textors.com>
Subject: Re: More files from the Galacticly inept Piet builder
Date: Feb 12, 2014
Bob here are a couple of shots from my site showing my makeshift brake. http://www.textors.com/cabane_fittings_010.jpg http://www.textors.com/cabane_fittings_015.jpg http://www.textors.com/Horns_005.jpg Jack Textor West Des Moines, IA -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2014 1:27 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: More files from the Galacticly inept Piet builder Bob You didn't ask me but here is my answer. I would not use part C and it is unlikely you could make it the correct size if you tried to fix it. Part B left side is your best bend. You might be able to salvage B but it's probably not worth the effort. I think you have something wrong with your technique. I found that using wood forms, like the yellow book shows, for material this thick would crush the wood and make the bend radius too large and not produce nice bends. My results were very similar to your results. Maybe it works with aluminum but I have not tried it. What I ended up doing is taking a piece of 3/8-inch 6-inches long x 2-inch wide steel bar (scrap I picked up at a scrap metal dealer). The dimensions don't need to be exact. Make the correct radius on one edge. As others have said 4130 can have a 1xthickness bend radius for the 90 degree bend. Also, if you're trying for a 90 degree bend you will have to bend it past 90 so you will have to grind off some of the top of the bar like the book shows. In this picture http://westcoastpiet.com/images/Chris%20Tracy/images/IMG_0048.JPG you can see that I have the part to be bent sandwiched between the radiused bar and another one that acts as a backer for the fitting (in this case the rudder horn). You will want to hit the metal to be bent close to the bar so the bend all happens along the bar. I found hitting it with a hammer left marks so I use a chunk of wood or better yet a bronze rod I found at the scrap yard. For the fitting that your trying to make, I made the first 90 bend in the vice like in the picture. Then to form the U I had to clamp it off the end of the vice and use a C-clamp to hold the other end. This will require you to figure out your bend layout (like in the blue Bengals book?) but it is not hard. What you are striving for are flat side with a nice bend. Not curved like in the bottom of your part C. If you need any more help I can shoot some better pictures of the process. The best thing I made to bend parts was this. http://westcoastpiet.com/bench-top_bender.htm > It makes for easy bending and reproducibility. Chris T. Sacramento, Ca Westcoastpiet.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of bdewenter Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2014 2:05 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: More files from the Galacticly inept Piet builder --> Jack, I appreciate your experience. Would you change part "C" ? -------- Bob 'Early Builder' Dewenter Dayton OH Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418554#418554 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Subject: to rub or not to rub, that is the question
Date: Feb 12, 2014
RGVubmlzIEVuZ2Vsa2Vuam9obiB3cml0ZXM6IOKAnEkgbmVlZCBzb21lIGhlbHAgaGVyZS4gQWNj b3JkaW5nIHRvIHRoZSBIb29wbWFuIHBsYW5zLCBwYWdlIDQsIHVwcGVyIHJpZ2h0IGhhbmQgY29y bmVyIHRoZSBjZW50ZXIgb2YgdGhlIGVsZXZhdG9yIGJlbGxjcmFuayBpcyA54oCdIGZyb20gdGhl IGxvd2VyIGxvbmdlcm9uLiBUaGlzIGNhdXNlcyB0aGUgdXBwZXIgZWxldmF0b3IgY2FibGVzIHRv IGRyYWcgb24gdGhlIGxlYWRpbmcgZWRnZSBvZiB0aGUgaG9yaXpvbnRhbCBzdGFiaWxpemVyLiBX aGF0IHdpbGwgaGFwcGVuIGlmIEkgcmFpc2UgdGhlIGNlbnRlciBvZiB0aGUgYmVsbGNyYW5rIHVw IGFuIGluY2ggb3Igc28/4oCdDQoNCkdvb2QgcXVlc3Rpb24gRGVubmlzIGFuZCBhbiBldmVuIGJl dHRlciByZXBseSBieSBEYW4gSGVsc3BlciBhYm91dCBubyBuZWVkIHRvIGNoYW5nZSB0aGUgZ2Vv bWV0cnkgb2Ygb3IgcGxhY2VtZW50IG9mDQp0aGUgZWxldmF0b3IgYmVsbGNyYW5rIGFzc2VtYmx5 IGF0IGFsbCBEZW5uaXMuICAgIEhlcmXigJlzIGhvdyBJIHNvbHZlZCB0aGUgcnViIGlzc3VlLiAg SSB3cmFwcGVkIHR3byB0aGluIHBpZWNlcyBvZiBUZWZsb24gc2hlZXQgYXJvdW5kDQp0aGUgTEUg YW5kIHNjcmV3ZWQgdGhlbSB0byB0aGUgdW5kZXJseWluZyB3b29kLiAgIFlvdSBjYW4gYWxzbyB1 c2UgdGhlIHRvcCBsaWQgZnJvbSBhIGNvZmZlZSBjYW4gd2hpY2ggaXMgYSBuaWNlIG55bG9uIHNo ZWV0IHdoaWNoIHdvcmtzDQpqdXN0IGFzIG5pY2VseSBidXQgZm9yIHRoZSBvbGQgdGltZSBsb29r IHRoZSBsZWF0aGVyIHdvcmtzIGJvdGggY29zbWV0aWNhbGx5IGFuZCBtZWNoYW5pY2FsbHkuDQoN CldoYXQgaXMgZnVubnkgaXMgdGhhdCBwZW9wbGUgZ2V0IGFsbCBodW5nIHVwIG9uIHRoaXMgcnVi IHBvaW50IGJ1dCB3aGVyZSBpdCBjb3VudHMsIGluIGZsaWdodD8gICAgSW4gZmxpZ2h0IHRoZXNl IGNhYmxlcyBkb27igJl0IHRvdWNoIHRoZQ0KaG9yaXpvbnRhbCBzdGFiaWxpemVyIGFuZCBmb3Ig dGhlIHNob3J0IHRpbWVzIHdlIHRheGkgYXJvdW5kIGZvciB0YWtlb2ZmcyBhbmQgbGFuZGluZ3Mg dGhlIHJ1YiBwb2ludHMgYXJlIG9ubHkgc29tZXRoaW5nIHRoYXQgb3VyIG1pbmQNCm1lc3NlcyB3 aXRoLiAgVGhlIGFpcnBsYW5lIGRvZXNu4oCZdCBtaW5kIGEgYml0LiAgICAoc3RpbGwgeW91ciBj aG9pY2UgdGhvdWdoIG9idmlvdXNseSB0byBjaGFuZ2UgdGhlIGRlc2lnbiBhcyBtYW55IGhhdmUg ZG9uZeKApi53aXRoIG11Y2ggYWRkaXRpb25hbA0KaGVhZCBzY3JhdGNoaW5nIHRvIGZvbGxvdyBi dXQgaGV5LCB0aGF04oCZcyB0aGUgcHJpY2UgdGhleSBwYXkgZm9yIOKAmGltcHJvdmluZyB0aGlu Z3PigJkgb24gdGhlIEltcHJvdmVkIEFpciBDYW1wZXLimLogISkNCg0KTWlrZSBDLg0KT2hpbw0K DQoNCltjaWQ6aW1hZ2UwMDEuanBnQDAxQ0YyN0NFLjA3QUNERkYwXQ0K ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Ailerons, up and down
From: "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Feb 12, 2014
There's a number of things like this in the old Piet. It's commonly said old Bernard knew what he was doing, including the oft referred to "lifting tail" as demonstrated in so many having down deflection in pictures... but it isn't, at all. So, what we have here, is experimental design, pure and simple. I don't think Bernard was necessarily a aero genius at all, what he was, was EXTREMELY mechanically intuitive. The biggest problem with designs that don't meet the most stringent of genius design, is the question of will it work in the real world, and will if last in the real world. Considering he built however many umpteen of these things, and did it WAY long ago, and a bazillion others have as well, we're past the point of being wary of his design. If you do it like he did, it'll work. Plain and simple. If you change it, you'll be in the same position ALL of them guys were back then. I don't think Bernard KNEW his design would work so well, any more than all the other guys who have faded into obscurity knew theirs would fail. It might be better, it might be worse! Always great to ask questions, a better understanding never hurts, but part of the Piet genre is just hitting the "I believe" button and pressing on... As for specifics, the aileron geometry has always made me wonder. All the slackness, just doesn't look like it'll work or fly well. I LOVE how the thing flies, more than a 757 (which I LOVE to fly...). I just handles really nicely I think. After the gear debacle on mine, when I put it all back together the aileron cables were tighter, looked WAY more better to me. Thought that surely this was gonna be an improvement (the wing moved up a tad due to cabane strut changes). Wrong. It flew HORRIBLY. Like I have no light civil experience and know something is terribly wrong... Landed, made a few calls, confirmed what was kinda nagging me and loosened them back to where they were when I got the plane. Flew just as good as ever. Some combinations just work. I'm not a "Piet purist". However, if you do change from the original very much at all, you don't have the same combination, which truly makes it experimental! I really don't consider the Piet experimental in that sense of the word. Bob Denver most likely died because a fuel valve was moved from the design point... Now, did the original designer put it where it was due to some design genius he had? Probably not... but the change did result in a short guy not being able to reach it, and had catastrophic results on down the incident chain of events. The fact that the original designers position was indeed a really good idea, is now known. In many designs, this works the other way. Little things crop up over and over and the design is changed (officially or not). As it turns out, Piet's original design really hasn't seen a lot of change. More reliable motors, 4130, polyester fabric, more reliable methods of the original motor... but that's about it. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418590#418590 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: More files from the Galacticly inept Piet builder
From: "bdewenter" <anonymouse(at)woh.rr.com>
Date: Feb 12, 2014
Jack T, Thanks for posting those images. I actually have seen them from your excellent web site - a treasure trove! Chris, Thanks for the reply. I agree with you. Greg, I agree. Thanks for replying. -------- Bob 'Early Builder' Dewenter Dayton OH Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418592#418592 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Ailerons, up and down
From: "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca>
Date: Feb 12, 2014
Okay, here's my (long-winded) take on the situation: 1. The aileron horns are one piece (upper and lower), so if the lower horn rotates 15 degrees, then so does the upper horn. And so does the aileron, for that matter. 2. The movement of the ailerons is governed by the cables that are pulling on them (you can't really push a cable). The pulling cables are connected to the lower horns. i.e. when the control stick is moved side-to-side, the cable that does the work goes from the control stick aileron horn to one of the lower aileron horns. 3. The upper horns are directly linked to each other by a cable (and a couple of pulleys), so a 15 degree downward rotation of the left aileron should result in a 15 degree upward rotation of the right aileron *assuming that there is no slack in the connecting cable*. However, it is common practice to rig the ailerons on these aircraft (like many other vintage aircraft) with the ailerons drooping slightly, when the plane is sitting on the ground. The aerodynamic forces on the ailerons will cause the ailerons to level out when in flight. As a result, there will be some slack introduced to the cable connecting the upper horns - when in flight. And this slack will result in a reduced rotation of the aileron upwards, as opposed to the aileron that is being pulled downwards. Thus, the figures listed in the LAA document likely are correct, based on observed conditions. An alternate idea would be to rig the ailerons so that they sat with a slight upward deflection when at rest. This would effectively introduce a bit of washout into the wings, which is usually a good idea (so the the root of the wing stalls before the tips, allowing for some aileron control in a stall). However, some builders have noted that shortening the balance cable (between the two upper horns) causes the cable system to bind slightly - which isn't a good thing. The short answer is that, ideally (i.e. with zero slack), if one aileron rotates 20 degrees, the other one will also rotate the same 20 degrees. The aileron horns themselves are designed such that if the connection point (where the cable attaches) is moved a set distance - say 1 inch - the result (in degrees of rotation) will vary based on whether the cable is connected to the upper or lower horn. The 1 inch linear movement at the upper horn will result in a greater rotation than the same 1 inch linear movement at the lower horn - because the upper horn connection point is closer to the pivot point (the hinge) than the lower horn connection point is. But the actual pull of cables is only applied to the lower horn of one aileron (which is then transferred directly from that aileron's upper horn to the other aileron's upper horn). So there is no actual differential aileron control designed into the system. As Jack, and others have said, the system works. It's a vintage aircraft design, and it will perform like a vintage aircraft, with the accompanying amount of adverse yaw. Luckily there is a rudder in the back to help compensate. Bill C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418593#418593 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: elevator bellcrank
From: "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com>
Date: Feb 12, 2014
Couldn't agree more. Leather patch on the horizontal stabilizer identifies it as a Pietenpol! Don Emch NX899DE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418594#418594 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: texas piet. flyin
From: "papadave" <dave(at)djhill.net>
Date: Feb 12, 2014
I live in Elk City, OK just a bit north of you. I think a Pietenpol fly-in would be awesome. I'm waiting for my plans to arrive this week and I hope to get started building this month. I know I won't be done by this spring but I'm sure I can scrounge up something else to fly down with. Late April, May, or early June would be best for me. -------- Dave Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418595#418595 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Ailerons, up and down
From: "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Feb 12, 2014
Tools, John Denver, the singer died in the airplane. Bob Denver, aka "Gilligan" of Island fame died of cancer in 2005. Small point not germane to the discussion but worth correcting nonetheless. Skipper -------- Semper Fi, Terry Hand Athens, GA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418598#418598 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 12, 2014
From: John Franklin <jbfjr(at)peoplepc.com>
Subject: Brodhead 2014
With a bunch of airline miles, I was able to scam a free ride on Southwest Airlines so naturally I chose Brodhead! Can you guys give me some info on overnight accommodations? I emailed the EAA chapter up there but didn't get a response. Thanks, John Franklin GN-1 / Corvair 164cid Prairie Aire 4TA0 Needville, TX ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <jack(at)bedfordlandings.com>
Subject: Brodhead 2014
Date: Feb 12, 2014
The usual accomodation is a tent Jack Phillips NX899JP Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Franklin Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2014 10:48 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead 2014 With a bunch of airline miles, I was able to scam a free ride on Southwest Airlines so naturally I chose Brodhead! Can you guys give me some info on overnight accommodations? I emailed the EAA chapter up there but didn't get a response. Thanks, John Franklin GN-1 / Corvair 164cid Prairie Aire 4TA0 Needville, TX ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Slick Mags
Date: Feb 12, 2014
From: <brian.e.jardine@l-3com.com>
Saw this Ad on our local classifieds.... I have no affiliation with the Mags or the seller, just passing it on. Brian SLC-UT http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=218&ad=28679258&cat=151&lpid=&search=&ad_cid=2 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 12, 2014
Subject: Re: Brodhead 2014
From: Ryan Mueller <ryan(at)rmueller.org>
Here's Chapter 431's fly-in info page from last year: http://www.eaa431.org/2013-pietenpolhatz-fly-in-information/ ....to give you an idea of camping arrangements, and about 2/3 of the way down is info for the B&B's in Brodhead and motels in Monroe On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 9:47 AM, John Franklin wrote: > > With a bunch of airline miles, I was able to scam a free ride on Southwest > Airlines so naturally I chose Brodhead! Can you guys give me some info on > overnight accommodations? I emailed the EAA chapter up there but didn't > get a response. > > Thanks, > John Franklin > GN-1 / Corvair 164cid > Prairie Aire 4TA0 > Needville, TX > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Ailerons, up and down
From: "curtdm(at)gmail.com" <curtdm(at)gmail.com>
Date: Feb 12, 2014
And the Denver Broncos died during Super Bowl XLVIII Sunday, February 2, 5:30 PM MetLife Stadium, East Rutherford, New Jersey -------- Curt Merdan Flower Mound, TX Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418607#418607 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Brodhead 2014
From: Jack <jack(at)textors.com>
Date: Feb 12, 2014
John as Jack mentioned mostly tents and campers. There are hotels in town which is about a mile from the airport. Make sure you watch the list for our bratfest Friday noon. Check the archives, lots of info there. Sent from my iPad Jack Textor > On Feb 12, 2014, at 9:47 AM, John Franklin wrote: > > > With a bunch of airline miles, I was able to scam a free ride on Southwest Airlines so naturally I chose Brodhead! Can you guys give me some info on overnight accommodations? I emailed the EAA chapter up there but didn't get a response. > > Thanks, > John Franklin > GN-1 / Corvair 164cid > Prairie Aire 4TA0 > Needville, TX > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Brodhead 2014
From: "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com>
Date: Feb 12, 2014
The BEST accommodations are tent! You just can't get the full experience without tenting it. You just can't beat listening to other snorers, howling coyotes, and 8 hour lightening storms! :-) Don Emch NX899DE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418615#418615 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Ailerons, up and down
From: "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Feb 12, 2014
Oh ya... that's what I meant! Thanks! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418616#418616 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 12, 2014
Subject: Re: Brodhead 2014
From: Ryan Mueller <ryan(at)rmueller.org>
Ah yes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OayCWX5REXg On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 11:56 AM, Don Emch wrote: > > The BEST accommodations are tent! You just can't get the full experience > without tenting it. You just can't beat listening to other snorers, > howling coyotes, and 8 hour lightening storms! :-) > > Don Emch > NX899DE > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418615#418615 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 12, 2014
From: gcardinal(at)comcast.net
Subject: Re: elevator bellcrank
Along with a rudder that is 1" too long. That is one of the first things I look at when someone says they "built it to the plans". =C2- Greg Cardinal ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com> Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2014 9:01:06 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: elevator bellcrank Couldn't agree more. =C2-Leather patch on the horizontal stabilizer ident ifies it as a Pietenpol! Don Emch NX899DE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418594#418594 =========== =========== MS - =========== e - =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2--Matt Dralle, List Admin. =========== ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Brodhead 2014
From: danhelsper(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 12, 2014
Dang! Ryan Meuller! I had that nightmare just about erased from my memory. What year was the "howitzer shot"? Dan Helsper Puryear, TN. And don't forget about the drone from the nearby irrigation center-pivot sp rayers all night long.....Fsssssst! Fssssst! Fssssst!............. -----Original Message----- From: Ryan Mueller <ryan(at)rmueller.org> Sent: Wed, Feb 12, 2014 12:10 pm Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Brodhead 2014 Ah yes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OayCWX5REXg On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 11:56 AM, Don Emch wrote: The BEST accommodations are tent! You just can't get the full experience w ithout tenting it. You just can't beat listening to other snorers, howling coyotes, and 8 hour lightening storms! :-) Don Emch NX899DE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418615#418615 st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List http://forums.matronics.com le, List Admin. ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 12, 2014
Subject: Re: Brodhead 2014
From: Ryan Mueller <ryan(at)rmueller.org>
Kaboom! I think that was 2010, but maybe others can confirm.... On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 12:28 PM, wrote: > Dang! Ryan Meuller! I had that nightmare just about erased from my memory. > > What year was the "howitzer shot"? > > Dan Helsper > Puryear, TN. > > And don't forget about the drone from the nearby irrigation center-pivot > sprayers all night long.....Fsssssst! Fssssst! Fssssst!............. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ryan Mueller <ryan(at)rmueller.org> > To: Pietenpol List > Sent: Wed, Feb 12, 2014 12:10 pm > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Brodhead 2014 > > Ah yes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OayCWX5REXg > > > On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 11:56 AM, Don Emch wrote: > >> >> The BEST accommodations are tent! You just can't get the full experience >> without tenting it. You just can't beat listening to other snorers, >> howling coyotes, and 8 hour lightening storms! :-) >> >> Don Emch >> NX899DE >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418615#418615 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ========== >> st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List >> ========== >> http://forums.matronics.com >> ========== >> le, List Admin. >> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> ========== >> >> >> >> > * > > " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > tp://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com> > _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > * > > * > > > * > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Brodhead 2014
From: "John Francis" <Mrkringles(at)msn.com>
Date: Feb 12, 2014
I believe is was 2010 as well. I fortunately was in my camper but still jumped when it struck. I thought for sure the next sound I was going to hear was sirens heading to the tent area! -------- John Francis Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418622#418622 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dennis Engelkenjohn" <mushface1(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Brodhead 2014
Date: Feb 12, 2014
Hey! I resemble that remark! dennis -----Original Message----- From: Don Emch Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2014 11:56 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Brodhead 2014 The BEST accommodations are tent! You just can't get the full experience without tenting it. You just can't beat listening to other snorers, howling coyotes, and 8 hour lightening storms! :-) Don Emch NX899DE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418615#418615 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Ailerons, up and down
From: "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Feb 12, 2014
I, too, am amazed by the Pietenpol in the air. On the ground, I can sit in the cockpit and stir the stick and waggle the rudders and things creak, squeak, and drag noticeably. Flops flop, controls just sit there unless I encourage them vigorously, and gravity seems to overpower the poor airplane on the ground. Nothing is silky-smooth and there is resistance in all the controls. However, the instant the airplane gains flying speed, things are all different. To me, in flight the Air Camper's controls are light and responsive and I do not detect any drag or resistance that doesn't feel like it's part of the airplane's normal operation. The most exhilarating flights I have ever made have been on a summer afternoon, solo, with half a tank of fuel in the Pietenpol Air Camper. It is the essence of stick and rudder flying and if you are used to controlling the airplane in all three axes, this airplane will please you. At least it does me. I should add that my airplane has full-span aileron hinges so the gaps are sealed, and I have never flown another Air Camper besides Scout so I have nothing against which to compare it except for Cubs, Super Cubs, Citabrias, and the like. I may have measured the travel angles on Scout's ailerons up and down, but I don't remember what they are. Maybe I'll measure them this weekend when I'm at the hangar, just for the heck of it. -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418641#418641 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: controls and howitzer shots
Date: Feb 13, 2014
The "Howitzer shot" was 2010. Marci and I were in our tent and I was sure it hit right next to us, it was absolutely CRAZY!! I too love the feel of the controls in the air, and they are built to plans. I honestly can hold the stick between two fingers and that is all the power it takes most of the time, truly delightful. I think it's great to play around with changes, and there are a few things that can actually be "improved" a bit. Just be aware that the plane flies great as designed and every "change" or "improvement" made adds time to the build, which increases the odds that you'll run out of poop and quit the project. I say keep the build process as slimmed down as possible, it's already a monumental job to finish one. Hope I remember how to fly when this weather breaks!! Dang!!! Douwe ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Brodhead 2014
From: "Luke W." <luke.wuest(at)centurytel.net>
Date: Feb 13, 2014
That was a night! My 8 yr. old daughter was sleeping next to me and all I did was worry about her all night. The next morning I asked how she did and all she could say was "what storm", she sleep right thru it. We had the Hatz there and I opened the lower inspections plates and let out 10 gallons of water from the lower wings,even with the drain holes open. Memories! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418654#418654 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: controls and howitzer shots
From: Gary Boothe <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Date: Feb 13, 2014
> "...it=99s already a monumental job to finish one..." Not to mention finishing one twice! Douwe, you are legendary (as well as a c ouple others)...a living example of perseverance! Gary NX308MB Sent from my iPhone > On Feb 13, 2014, at 7:35 AM, "Douwe Blumberg" wrote: > > The =9CHowitzer shot=9D was 2010. Marci and I were in our ten t and I was sure it hit right next to us, it was absolutely CRAZY!! > > I too love the feel of the controls in the air, and they are built to plan s. I honestly can hold the stick between two fingers and that is all the po wer it takes most of the time, truly delightful. > > I think it=99s great to play around with changes, and there are a fe w things that can actually be =9Cimproved=9D a bit. Just be awa re that the plane flies great as designed and every =9Cchange=9D or =9Cimprovement=9D made adds time to the build, which increas es the odds that you=99ll run out of poop and quit the project. I say keep the build process as slimmed down as possible, it=99s already a m onumental job to finish one. > > Hope I remember how to fly when this weather breaks!! Dang!!! > > Douwe > > 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Michael Weston <smikewest(at)comcast.net>
Subject: tense about cables
Date: Feb 13, 2014
hey,i'm making the brace cables for the fin and horizontal stabilizer, but... how tight should they be, and what is the procedure for checking? thanks mike w. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Subject: tense about cables
Date: Feb 13, 2014
Michael, Did you know that the matronics web site has a search engine? If you input "Cable Tension", you will see 101 entries! The answer is simply a dull "THWANG." Make all the same tone and you'll be golden. Gary Boothe NX308MB -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael Weston Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2014 3:09 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: tense about cables --> hey,i'm making the brace cables for the fin and horizontal stabilizer, but... how tight should they be, and what is the procedure for checking? thanks mike w. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: tail hinges
From: "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Feb 13, 2014
1. Clevis and cotter pin. 2. I've got no washer... never really thought about it. 3. Seen it done all four ways. Recessed, covered over. Recessed and cut out. Surface mounted covered and cut out. My preference would be leave flush, install hinges after covering, which means you'll need nut plates inside. This seems to be the best arrangement for maintenance. Also probably the neatest in terms of covering and painting. Cutting around them is harder for me. I recessed them in MSP/St Pauls EAA chapter project. If I were to do that again, I would use flat head fasteners. 4. Always meant to look, but forgot. Got no clue! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418678#418678 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: tense about cables
From: "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Feb 13, 2014
Pretty sure Glider and Flying Manual says to make them tight enough that nothing moves or goes slack when you pick up the tail out by the connect point on the stab. That's how I put mine back on. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418679#418679 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Ailerons, up and down
From: "womenfly2" <Love2Fly.KAP(at)gmail.com>
Date: Feb 14, 2014
To add, one needs to seal the aileron gap. The ailerons will be very less effective the slower the air-speed do to the air bleed between the gap. The gap on an aileron is only good if you have a "Frise" design aileron. Seal it anyway you want, just seal it for the full length of the aileron. More of a safe control issue. WF2 -------- Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418686#418686 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: tense about cables
From: danhelsper(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 14, 2014
Michael, uhh..........love you man, but you know, you have opened a very sore subjec t once again. Bones of contention long-ago buried but now once again brough t to the surface to be rehashed and relived with opened wounds. So many dis agreements...."DING"..."WANG"...."DUNNNGG".... But of course my friend Gary is correct, with the proper "TWANG". Proof positive is the result. His air plane flies perfectly,....like mine. Dan Helsper Puryear, TN -----Original Message----- From: Gary Boothe <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> Sent: Thu, Feb 13, 2014 6:06 pm Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: tense about cables Michael, Did you know that the matronics web site has a search engine? If you input "Cable Tension", you will see 101 entries! The answer is simply a dull "THWANG." Make all the same tone and you'll be golden. Gary Boothe NX308MB -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael Weston Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2014 3:09 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: tense about cables --> hey,i'm making the brace cables for the fin and horizontal stabilizer, but... how tight should they be, and what is the procedure for checking? thanks mike w. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: tense about cables
From: "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Feb 14, 2014
Michael? Who me? Only my mother calls me Michael... This must mean I'm in trouble. Sorry. I can't rely on the "twang", I'm tone deaf. Can't carry a tune in a bucket... Evenly Gutensnug? Does that work? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418689#418689 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: tail hinges
From: "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Feb 14, 2014
If you're considering nut plates... here's what I just learned... The aircraft variants are lock nuts. You have to push on a phillips decently to get them in. If you install the nut plates with nails or glue, you'll likely pop one loose. Then you've got a mess... I just redid all of mine with #2 wood screws to hold the nut plates. Also, use BRAND NEW phillips fasteners and a BRAND NEW screwdriver. Or, better yet, use a fancy new fangled drive (square, T series, perhaps hex) that'll prevent you from having to push at all, lessening the chance of taking one loose during installation. You can make your own nut plates too, using a pinched style of lock nut by brazing to a plate. I wouldn't use nylon in this case since the brazing would probably mess up the nylon... Probably don't have to use lock nuts, just preflight well, or use lock washers on the outside. I'd cover the part with fasteners partially inserted to prevent any paint substance from getting inside them during covering and painting. Can't really clean lock nuts effectively with a tap afterwards, without removing most of the "lock". Sans lock nuts at all, I'd use fine thread as that's better for vibration resistance. Regular threads are for strength. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418690#418690 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: tense about cables
From: danhelsper(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 14, 2014
Woops...but of course..... I meant to say.... "THWANG". Dan Helsper Puryear, TN -----Original Message----- From: danhelsper <danhelsper(at)aol.com> Sent: Fri, Feb 14, 2014 7:13 am Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: tense about cables Michael, uhh..........love you man, but you know, you have opened a very sore subjec t once again. Bones of contention long-ago buried but now once again brough t to the surface to be rehashed and relived with opened wounds. So many dis agreements...."DING"..."WANG"...."DUNNNGG".... But of course my friend Gary is correct, with the proper "TWANG". Proof positive is the result. His air plane flies perfectly,....like mine. Dan Helsper Puryear, TN -----Original Message----- From: Gary Boothe <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> Sent: Thu, Feb 13, 2014 6:06 pm Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: tense about cables Michael, Did you know that the matronics web site has a search engine? If you input "Cable Tension", you will see 101 entries! The answer is simply a dull "THWANG." Make all the same tone and you'll be golden. Gary Boothe NX308MB -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael Weston Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2014 3:09 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: tense about cables --> hey,i'm making the brace cables for the fin and horizontal stabilizer, but... how tight should they be, and what is the procedure for checking? thanks mike w. " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List tp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Subject: tense about cables
Date: Feb 14, 2014
"THWANG" in California could easily be "TWANG" in Tennessee. Gary Boothe NX308MB From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of danhelsper(at)aol.com Sent: Friday, February 14, 2014 5:44 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: tense about cables Woops...but of course..... I meant to say.... "THWANG". Dan Helsper Puryear, TN -----Original Message----- From: danhelsper <danhelsper(at)aol.com> Sent: Fri, Feb 14, 2014 7:13 am Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: tense about cables Michael, uhh..........love you man, but you know, you have opened a very sore subject once again. Bones of contention long-ago buried but now once again brought to the surface to be rehashed and relived with opened wounds. So many disagreements...."DING"..."WANG"...."DUNNNGG".... But of course my friend Gary is correct, with the proper "TWANG". Proof positive is the result. His airplane flies perfectly,....like mine. Dan Helsper Puryear, TN -----Original Message----- From: Gary Boothe <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> Sent: Thu, Feb 13, 2014 6:06 pm Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: tense about cables Michael, Did you know that the matronics web site has a search engine? If you input "Cable Tension", you will see 101 entries! The answer is simply a dull "THWANG." Make all the same tone and you'll be golden. Gary Boothe NX308MB -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com ] On Behalf Of Michael Weston Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2014 3:09 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: tense about cables --> hey,i'm making the brace cables for the fin and horizontal stabilizer, but... how tight should they be, and what is the procedure for checking? thanks mike w. " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List tp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List tp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: tail brace cables
Date: Feb 14, 2014
Hey Mike, A dull "thwang" is the basic advice I received when I asked. It's hard to quantify many things on a Piet and this seems to be one of them. I think good common sense dictates here, so here's some basic common sense things to put into the mix. 1. it's a wood structure so the cables shouldn't exert unnecessary force. 2. the tail group is in the prop wash and really want a lot, so you don't want the cables to allow for ANY movement. 3. the tail alignment makes HUGE differences to your final trim, so the cables need to be easily adjusted during initial trim-in I think the main thing is to have them tight enough so nothing that move, and that they all be the same tension. I sat in on a lecture at Brodhead where the speaker talked a lot about tail alignment and the value of taking a lot of time in ensuring that everything is square, including taking a measurement from the center of the fuse somewhere up front and ensuring the horizontal stab is exactly square as viewed from above. I worked hard to do this and she never needed a single tweak. Douwe ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Michael Weston <smikewest(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: tense about cables
Date: Feb 14, 2014
thanks guys. mike w. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Dan Helsper - Master Prop Carver
Date: Feb 14, 2014
I was reminded this morning.lest there be any doubt!! https://scontent-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/t31/966161_720670207955168_1219 477678_o.jpg Gary Boothe NX308MB ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: tail hinges
From: "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Feb 14, 2014
I don't have anything useful to offer here, but the tail surfaces on my airplane have the cast Vi Kapler hinges rotating on clevis pins secured by cotter pins. My comment about them is that they are possibly the most difficult and frustrating cotter pins to install on the entire airplane. The space in the control surface gap is limited and it's difficult to keep the clevis pin from rotating while you try to spread the legs of the cotter pin, and proper cotter pin installation requires that you clip back the legs... which gives you even less leverage to spread them and then fold them back around the clevis pin. It's a job best done with two people, and preferably one or both persons will have small hands. And finally, if you do it right the first time, you'll only have to do it once. I've done it more than once. -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418702#418702 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: tail brace cables
From: "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Feb 14, 2014
I second what Douwe said, since I have looked back at the tail surfaces as I've gone through bumpy air and they really do get buffeted around a lot from the propwash and everything else. The brace wires should definitely not have any slack or looseness in them, but respect the strength of the wood and don't tighten them to Tiny Tim ukelele tension. -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418703#418703 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: You want to see some real talent?
From: danhelsper(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 14, 2014
There are many many talented people on this list. Some we know about and so me we don't. Here are just a couple: http://www.douwestudios.com/large_video.html http://youtu.be/EkGNAqlkQnY Dan Helsper Puryear, TN ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: tail hinges
From: "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Feb 14, 2014
Paul; it's not a problem... all of the flight controls on my airplane are secondary. I am the only primary flight controller aboard. -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418712#418712 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Carollton Ga. Gang
From: "Bill R" <brcapper(at)gmail.com>
Date: Feb 14, 2014
New builder in Griffin Georgia. I am beginning a steel tube fuse Aircamper. So far I have a box full of 4130 fittings made and have started the empenage. I am looking for contact info for the guys in Carrolton Georgia, I understand they built several very nice steel tube Aircampers. Any help would be appreciated. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418718#418718 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Carollton Ga. Gang
From: Gardiner Mason <airlion2(at)gmail.com>
Date: Feb 14, 2014
Bill, contact Barry Davis in Carrollton . His phone is7703018087 after 10 am. I have a pietenpol also in Lagrange. Gardiner Mason. 706 594 3811 Sent from my iPad On Feb 14, 2014, at 7:13 PM, "Bill R" wrote: > > New builder in Griffin Georgia. I am beginning a steel tube fuse Aircamper. > So far I have a box full of 4130 fittings made and have started the empenage. I am looking for contact info for the guys in Carrolton Georgia, I understand they built several very nice steel tube Aircampers. Any help would be appreciated. > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418718#418718 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Volkswagen Engine
From: "papadave" <dave(at)djhill.net>
Date: Feb 15, 2014
I'm new. Just got my plans from Andrew Pietenpol and a mechanic friend of mine says he has several VW engines and he'd let me have one pretty cheap and I'm wondering what are the major considerations for choosing an engine? I haven't read the plans or manual yet and I have all of Tony Bengalis's books coming from EAA (which I promise to read cover to cover). Do you think VW is a viable option or a wild goose chase? Would appreciate input from the group. -------- Dave Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418736#418736 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 15, 2014
From: Ben Charvet <bencharvet(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Volkswagen Engine
If you do a search in the archives, this topic has been reviewed a bunch of times. I believe it even says on the Pietenpol family website that the VW is not an acceptable powerplant for a Piet. Most folks use a small Continental, a Model A, or a Corvair powerplant. Ben Charvet On 2/15/2014 10:10 AM, papadave wrote: > > I'm new. Just got my plans from Andrew Pietenpol and a mechanic friend of mine says he has several VW engines and he'd let me have one pretty cheap and I'm wondering what are the major considerations for choosing an engine? I haven't read the plans or manual yet and I have all of Tony Bengalis's books coming from EAA (which I promise to read cover to cover). Do you think VW is a viable option or a wild goose chase? Would appreciate input from the group. > > -------- > Dave > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418736#418736 > > -- Ben Charvet, PharmD Staff Pharmacist Parrish Medical center ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: cable tension
Date: Feb 15, 2014
Just got back from the hangar (almost forgot the dang combination, it's been so long!!) I think the appropriate cable tension is signified by more of a low "thunk" rather than a "thwang" and certainly NOT a "twang" which would be MUCH too tight. (now for flying and landing wires, a "twang" seems appropriate) Douwe ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Boatright, Jeffrey" <jeffboatright(at)emory.edu>
Subject: Hello? Is this thing on?
Date: Feb 15, 2014
Hello Good People! After a long hiatus, I'm back. I think. We'll see if this message ends up i n my inbox. I've never left the Piet world (been flying and tinkering as mu ch as ever), but I somehow got my email particulars messed up, so could not post here. Then I got real busy at work. Still busy, but have finally star ting saying "no" to some new projects. To the gent who just joined from Griffin, GA. I'm up in Decatur and fly out of Lenora, just south of Snellville (designator: 2GA9). Drop me a line; I' m happy to give you a ride. Glad to be back, Jeff -- Jeff Boatright Pietenpol Phlyer ________________________________ This e-mail message (including any attachments) is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this message (including any attachments) is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please contact the sender by reply e-mail message and destroy all copies of the original message (including attachments). ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Hello? Is this thing on?
From: Gary Boothe <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Date: Feb 15, 2014
Welcome back, Jeff! Gary Boothe NX308MB Sent from my iPhone > On Feb 15, 2014, at 8:07 AM, "Boatright, Jeffrey" wrote: > > Hello Good People! > > After a long hiatus, I'm back. I think. We'll see if this message ends up i n my inbox. I've never left the Piet world (been flying and tinkering as muc h as ever), but I somehow got my email particulars messed up, so could not p ost here. Then I got real busy at work. Still busy, but have finally startin g saying "no" to some new projects. > > To the gent who just joined from Griffin, GA. I'm up in Decatur and fly ou t of Lenora, just south of Snellville (designator: 2GA9). Drop me a line; I' m happy to give you a ride. > > Glad to be back, > > Jeff > > -- > > Jeff Boatright > Pietenpol Phlyer > > > This e-mail message (including any attachments) is for the sole use of > the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged > information. If the reader of this message is not the intended > recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution > or copying of this message (including any attachments) is strictly > prohibited. > > If you have received this message in error, please contact > the sender by reply e-mail message and destroy all copies of the > original message (including attachments). > > 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Carollton Ga. Gang
From: "Jeff Boatright" <jeffboatright(at)emory.edu>
Date: Feb 15, 2014
Hi Bill, I'm up in Decatur, fly my Piet out of Lenora (2GA9), just south of Snellville. Happy to give you a ride some morning or evening. Jeff http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcinXNmvXX0 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418748#418748 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Boatright, Jeffrey" <jeffboatright(at)emory.edu>
Subject: Re: Hello? Is this thing on?
Date: Feb 15, 2014
Thanks Gary. It's good to be back. I saw your inflight videos. Very nice! -- Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD, FARVO Associate Professor of Ophthalmology Emory University School of Medicine From: Gary Boothe <gboothe5(at)comcast.net<mailto:gboothe5(at)comcast.net>> >" > Date: Saturday, February 15, 2014 11:15 AM etenpol-list(at)matronics.com> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Hello? Is this thing on? Welcome back, Jeff! Gary Boothe NX308MB ________________________________ This e-mail message (including any attachments) is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this message (including any attachments) is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please contact the sender by reply e-mail message and destroy all copies of the original message (including attachments). ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Address
From: Gardiner Mason <airlion2(at)gmail.com>
Date: Feb 15, 2014
Looking for skip Gadd email and phone number . Thanks, Gardiner Sent from my iPad ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Address
From: "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Feb 15, 2014
Gardiner, Check your email. I sent it to you there. -------- Semper Fi, Terry Hand Athens, GA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418753#418753 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Volkswagen Engine
From: "Jeff Boatright" <jeffboatright(at)emory.edu>
Date: Feb 15, 2014
Hi Dave, Welcome to the Splendiferous world of Pietenpolers! There have been attempts over the years to power Piets with VW engines, but there's just not enough cubic inches there - they just don't put out the right combination of rpm, torque, and power. I've powered my Piet with a Continental A65 and a C-85. The A65 was fine, but the C-85 is a lot more fun when it comes to getting two people airborne from a short field on a hot Georgia day. No kidding. As you may have already discovered, Piets have been powered by small Lycomings, Contintentals, Franklins, Ford Model A, Chevy Corvair, other Ford, GM, and Mopar engines, diesel (!) engines, and even turbine (!) engines. Which engine you use depends on your goals. Not to upset anyone, and YMMV, but after having played around with Corvairs and VWs for other projects, I've found that rebuilding your own Continental is actually the cheapest, fastest way to reliably get in the air with a two-seat airplane. Cheap, fast, and reliable may not be at the top of your list of goals. Maybe the fun of playing around with unique powerplants is high on your list. The Pietepol Aircamper clearly is a GREAT vehicle for that! We're flying experimental airplanes here, so don't let anyone stop you from experimenting! HTH, Jeff Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418758#418758 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Volkswagen Engine
From: "aviken" <aviken(at)windstream.net>
Date: Feb 15, 2014
Hi Dave. Welcome to the site. I am relatively new myself, I only started building in early Nov. last year. I too have ideas of using a non-traditional pietenpol engine, I am in the process of ground testing a jeep 134 go-devil engine to see if it will spin a prop up sufficiently. It may not have enough guts to do the job, and if it doesn't I will go with something else. I hope you enjoy your build as much as I have so far. Get to cutting and glueing you will have a great time. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418762#418762 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dennis Engelkenjohn" <mushface1(at)gmail.com>
Subject: rudder cables
Date: Feb 15, 2014
Trying to run my rudder cables, but there is interference with the #10 diagonal. ( the 3rd from the tail post). Am using bright pink string first to make sure everything clears and it doesn=99t. Options are to notch the diagonal slightly and sister it with 1/8=9D plywood or to use nylon sheet to make guides around it. Any ideas? Dennis ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Subject: rudder cables
Date: Feb 15, 2014
I did both! You=99ll be just fine Gary Boothe NX308MB From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dennis Engelkenjohn Sent: Saturday, February 15, 2014 4:34 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: rudder cables Trying to run my rudder cables, but there is interference with the #10 diagonal. ( the 3rd from the tail post). Am using bright pink string first to make sure everything clears and it doesn=99t. Options are to notch the diagonal slightly and sister it with 1/8=9D plywood or to use nylon sheet to make guides around it. Any ideas? Dennis ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Ailerons, up and down
From: "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Feb 15, 2014
Okay, so I have my controls all rigged back up and everything is Kosher again. I put an angle finder on the aileron and rocked the controls from stop to stop and I find that my ailerons will travel 19 degrees up and 26 degrees down for a total travel of 45 degrees of arc. The ailerons, horns, hinges, sticks, and everything else seem to be constructed exactly to plans (or to tolerances that are as exact as Air Campers are typically built). However!!! There is physically no way that I can actually move the stick from stop to stop laterally if I'm sitting in the airplane the stick hits the inside of my thighs. I have small metal plates on the cockpit floor where the aileron cable horns can hit without digging into the plywood. However, that will never happen in normal flight due to the interference provided by the pilot's thighs. I also got all the inspection plates and wing gap covers back in place. I'm close to being ready to put fuel in the tank and trying to wake Scout out of hibernation. -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418767#418767 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Carollton Ga. Gang
From: "Larry Williams" <lnawms(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Feb 15, 2014
Be careful who you look to for ideas. The group you are referring to did NOT build Pietenpol Air Campers. Their aircraft are so highly modified and changed from the original that referring to them as Pietenpol's is stretching credibility pretty far. Look at other projects and incorporate changes that make sense to you but always keep lightness and simplicity at the top of your list. Don't get led down the path of modernizing or beefing-up which is a recipe for a heavy airplane that is sure to disappoint. -------- L.V.Williams XCG, XCMR, ATP USHPA, EAA, AMA, EPP Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418770#418770 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: steel to aluminum tube comparison
From: "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Feb 15, 2014
Okay, so this is sort of off-topic, but I'm trying to look at an aluminum tube that would have approximately the same strength in tension and compression as old-timey 5/8" diameter, 22 ga. steel (presumably no more than 1049 mild steel and possibly 1018 if it was from the 1930s). Also curious to know what the weight difference might be once I get a cross reference. Anybody have a handy-dandy table or chart that might give me an idea of what the old-timey steel tubing might have been capable of? I could do it the long way by calculating the section modulus and all that, but surely there are tables from old machine shop books? -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418772#418772 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 15, 2014
From: George Abernathy <avionixoz(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Volkswagen Engine
It is high time some one made a carbon fiber nose with two vw engines on st alks.-=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0A From: Jeff Boatright < jeffboatright(at)emory.edu>=0ATo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com =0ASent: Sunday , February 16, 2014 8:16 AM=0ASubject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Volkswagen Engin right(at)emory.edu>=0A=0AHi Dave,=0A=0AWelcome to the Splendiferous world of P ietenpolers! There have been attempts over the years to power Piets with VW engines, but there's just not enough cubic inches there - they just don't put out the right combination of rpm, torque, and power.=0A=0AI've powered my Piet with a Continental A65 and a C-85. The A65 was fine, but the C-85 i s a lot more fun when it comes to getting two people airborne from a short field on a hot Georgia day. No kidding.=0A=0AAs you may have already discov ered, Piets have been powered by small Lycomings, Contintentals, Franklins, Ford Model A, Chevy Corvair, other Ford, GM, and Mopar engines, diesel (!) engines, and even turbine (!) engines. Which engine you use depends on you r goals. =0A=0ANot to upset anyone, and YMMV, but after having played aroun d with Corvairs and VWs for other projects, I've found that rebuilding your own Continental is actually the cheapest, fastest way to reliably get in t he air with a two-seat airplane. Cheap, fast, and reliable may not be at th e top of your list of goals. Maybe the fun of playing around with unique po werplants is high on your list. The Pietepol Aircamper clearly is a GREAT v ehicle for that! We're flying experimental airplanes here, so don't let any one stop you from experimenting!=0A=0AHTH,=0A=0AJeff=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead thi s topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418 = ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: steel to aluminum tube comparison
From: "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Feb 16, 2014
Oscar, Does any of this help? -------- Semper Fi, Terry Hand Athens, GA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418781#418781 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/screen_shot_2014_02_16_at_74611_am_512.png http://forums.matronics.com//files/screen_shot_2014_02_16_at_74536_am_305.png http://forums.matronics.com//files/screen_shot_2014_02_16_at_74329_am_589.png http://forums.matronics.com//files/screen_shot_2014_02_16_at_74218_am_165.png http://forums.matronics.com//files/screen_shot_2014_02_16_at_73944_am_721.png ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 16, 2014
Subject: Re: Volkswagen Engine
From: Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com>
Aviken, Have you looked at any jeep modifications to the Go-devil engine? Surely someone hopped that engine up. There might even be some fairly low tech improvements. On Sat, Feb 15, 2014 at 5:11 PM, aviken wrote: > > Hi Dave. Welcome to the site. I am relatively new myself, I only started > building in early Nov. last year. I too have ideas of using a > non-traditional pietenpol engine, I am in the process of ground testing a > jeep 134 go-devil engine to see if it will spin a prop up sufficiently. > It may not have enough guts to do the job, and if it doesn't I will go > with something else. > I hope you enjoy your build as much as I have so far. Get to cutting and > glueing you will have a great time. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418762#418762 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 16, 2014
Subject: Re: Volkswagen Engine
From: Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com>
To echo what you have heard and restate it. The VW makes its Horsepower at higher RPM. That works for something like a speedy little Sonex type plane. But for the slower Pietenpol, it prefers a slower revving higher torque engine swinging a longer prop. To get the VW to do this you have to get an RPM reduction drive. Much like a old fashioned jeep made a lot of torque down low to get out of mud at slowspeed. VS a roadrace motorcycle. I have been told that some of the Corvair engines make 140 HP but really only have about 100 HP useable at the right speeds for the prop. But I may be wrong on that. Blue Skies, Steve D On Sat, Feb 15, 2014 at 9:10 AM, papadave wrote: > > I'm new. Just got my plans from Andrew Pietenpol and a mechanic friend of > mine says he has several VW engines and he'd let me have one pretty cheap > and I'm wondering what are the major considerations for choosing an engine? > I haven't read the plans or manual yet and I have all of Tony Bengalis's > books coming from EAA (which I promise to read cover to cover). Do you > think VW is a viable option or a wild goose chase? Would appreciate input > from the group. > > -------- > Dave > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418736#418736 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Bingelis books $20 off!
From: Jack <jack(at)textors.com>
Date: Feb 16, 2014
http://www.shopeaa.com/bingelissetof4.aspx Sent from my iPad Jack Textor ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Volkswagen Engine
From: "papadave" <dave(at)djhill.net>
Date: Feb 16, 2014
Thanks everybody for insight on the VW engine. I was just checking for my mechanic friend who has some VW engines he wants to get rid of. I'm not exactly Mr. Goodwrench and the Continental C-85 sounds more in line with my objectives: - fits in with the Pietenpol plans - common engine that I can get help with - can use 100LL AVGAS that is available at every airport that sells fuel. - like, Jeff, I want to be able to fly with two people on hot summer days. Thanks everybody! -------- Dave Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418793#418793 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: steel to aluminum tube comparison
From: "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Feb 16, 2014
Terry; yes, those tables are of some use but I would have to calculate the section moduli and all of that, to get a good cross-reference of an aluminum tube that is equivalent to steel. Rainy day activity ;o) Thanks. -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418799#418799 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: steel to aluminum tube comparison
From: "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Feb 16, 2014
I was a section leader when I flew in the Marine Corps but I know nothing about section moduli. Let us know what you find out. I would be curious to know how aluminum tubing compares with 1018 steel. FWIW, those screenshots came from onlinemetals.com -------- Semper Fi, Terry Hand Athens, GA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418800#418800 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: A65 Rose Bowl cut outs
From: Gerry Holland <gholland@content-stream.co.uk>
Date: Feb 16, 2014
Gentlemen Hi. I have just had made new aluminium front cowling 'rose bowl'. The lower half was manufactured with no cut outs or holes. Do I need to cut out the one or two holes I've observed on other aircraft such as J3's or can I just leave as complete? The A65 install has so much air passing through the engine compartment it hardly seems necessary. Thanks Gerry ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 16, 2014
From: "g. doe" <acmech46(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Carollton Ga. Gang
Try to find Nathan Rounds, may be on this list, has had a nice Piet for a l ong time and does excellent work, down by Lebanon, GA, not far from you, ga ry-=0A=0A=0A=0AOn Saturday, February 15, 2014 9:55 PM, Larry Williams =0A=0ABe careful who you look to for ideas. The group you are referring to did NOT build Pietenpol Air Campers. Their airc raft are so highly modified and changed from the original that referring to them as Pietenpol's is stretching credibility pretty far. =0ALook at other projects and incorporate changes that make sense to you but always keep li ghtness and simplicity at the top of your list. Don't get led down the path of modernizing or beefing-up which is a recipe for a heavy airplane that i s sure to disappoint.=0A=0A--------=0AL.V.Williams=0AXCG, XCMR, ATP=0AUSHPA , EAA, AMA, EPP=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://foru =============== ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: A65 Rose Bowl cut outs
From: Gardiner Mason <airlion2(at)gmail.com>
Date: Feb 16, 2014
Post a picture Gerry. I am about to try one myself. Gardiner Sent from my iPad On Feb 16, 2014, at 3:29 PM, Gerry Holland <gholland@content-stream.co.uk> wrote: > > Gentlemen Hi. > I have just had made new aluminium front cowling 'rose bowl'. > The lower half was manufactured with no cut outs or holes. > Do I need to cut out the one or two holes I've observed on other aircraft such as J3's or can I just leave as complete? > The A65 install has so much air passing through the engine compartment it hardly seems necessary. > Thanks > Gerry > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <don.h(at)wcoil.com>
Subject: ham radio Freqs
Date: Feb 16, 2014
Are there any Ham freqs where piet-s hang out, time,freq??? tnx w8zrz ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 16, 2014
From: jim hyde <jnl96(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: ham radio Freqs
On Sunday, February 16, 2014 5:10 PM, "don.h(at)wcoil.com" wrote: Are there any Ham freqs where piet-s hang out, time,freq??? tnx w8zrz ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 16, 2014
From: jim hyde <jnl96(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: ham radio Freqs
only ham I know is me k5dhe 3870 and 3922- cont traders net and texas tra ders net=0A=0Ajim=0A=0A=0A=0AOn , jim hyde wrote:=0A =0A =0A=0A=0AOn Sunday, February 16, 2014 5:10 PM, "don.h(at)wcoil.com" wrote:=0A =0AAre there any Ham freqs where piet-s hang out, time,f ======================= ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: A65 Rose Bowl cut outs
From: "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Feb 16, 2014
Gerry; On most photos of J-3s that I've seen, there is a sort of horizontal slot just below the hole for the prop hub and then a round hole below that, and then the air filter. I have no idea what the horizontal slot is for but I believe the hole below it leads into the heat muff for carb heat since I believe it has a mesh screen in the opening. Neither of those openings should have anything to do with cooling the engine or oil sump. However, the J-3 does not have a pressure cowl so there is cooling air entering through the eyebrows, sweeping down over the cylinders, the out the bottom of the cowling after going around the oil sump and carb. I think you can dispense with any additional cutouts. Test fly it and watch the oil and cylinder head temps and then decide if you need any additional openings. It's easier to cut new ones than to patch ones that you don't need. -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418834#418834 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 16, 2014
Subject: Eyebrow cowlings
From: Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com>
Gentlemen and Oscar, How close does the cowling need to be to the back of the cylenders to be effective? should they just almost rub? Blue Skies, STeve D ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: A65 Rose Bowl cut outs
From: "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com>
Date: Feb 16, 2014
The idea there is to help cool the crankcase. I went ahead and put one in mine. Kind of a horizontal oval. For all it takes to do it, it's probably a good idea to go ahead and do it now. Don Emch NX899DE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418837#418837 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Eyebrow cowlings
From: "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Feb 16, 2014
Steve; The aft parts of the cooling eyebrows (both the ones that I replaced and the new ones) touch the back sides of the cooling fins on the heads and cylinders. On my old ones, there were little grooves worn into the aluminum of the eyebrows... that's how close they were. The ram air that comes shooting in the front needs to change from velocity pressure to static pressure to get it to go down through the fins and around the cylinders and it will escape out the back through any low-resistance openings it can find. Try to keep the baffles close to the finned surfaces. In the case of supersonic airplanes like the Piet, this effect is exaggerated and cooling effects are especially important to control as the airplane approaches Mach 1 and shock waves form ahead of the cooling eyebrows. All kidding aside, down in hot Texas, you need to direct all the cooling air around the finned surfaces and don't let it shoot past them at the rear of the engine. -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418844#418844 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Scouting for a new home
From: "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Feb 16, 2014
Worked on the airplane a little more today, and it should only take one more long work session before it's ready to add fuel and fire it up. Pulled all the plugs, cleaned and gapped, installed the new cooling eyebrows, went over all the hardware, clevises, safety wiring, and other security items and all are complete. I just need to re-torque and safety the prop bolts, service the air filter, pull the carb float bowl for inspection (airplane has sat for a year), install the engine cowlings, and I think we're ready to go try propping it off. Everything else on my list is cosmetic, so there are very few excuses left. Jeff (Boatright)'s flying and landing video was a tremendous inspiration to get me ready for flight again, and just hearing the pocketa-pocketa-pocketa idle of the engine in the video was enough to make me want to hear mine do that again. After I light off the engine I plan to make some long taxi runs to test the ground handling with the new tailwheel, warm up the oil, drain and change it, and then put the airplane away. The following day will be return to flight, God willing, and the airplane will be in Phase 1 flight testing for 5 hours in and around the Medford Class Delta airspace. It's just a little over 90 days till the West Coast Piet Fly-In, so I've got to get busy... -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418848#418848 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Carollton Ga. Gang
From: "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Feb 16, 2014
Hey Bill, I'm having a bunch of folks over next weekend up near Chatt TN (20 to 24 Feb). Among them are a couple of guys who are building steel tube fuse Piets. You're welcome to come up, stay a couple days or whatever. I'll be working on getting my wood fuse Piet assembled (been down for repairs). We're planning on making some control horns, so if you've made yours, we could use the help! Bunch of other shop related stuff going on as well. Maybe some of the Carrollton gang might head up too, all are welcome. Ping me back channel if you're interested and need details! Mike Danford, 423 580 1383 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418849#418849 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ray Krause <raykrause(at)frontiernet.net>
Subject: Re: Scouting for a new home
Date: Feb 16, 2014
Oscar, Following your progress is really informative to me. I am looking forward to see you and Scout at the West Coast FLYIN. Keep the good news coming. Thanks, Ray Krause SkyScout abuilding... Sent from my iPad > On Feb 16, 2014, at 9:53 PM, "taildrags" wrote: > > > Worked on the airplane a little more today, and it should only take one more long work session before it's ready to add fuel and fire it up. Pulled all the plugs, cleaned and gapped, installed the new cooling eyebrows, went over all the hardware, clevises, safety wiring, and other security items and all are complete. I just need to re-torque and safety the prop bolts, service the air filter, pull the carb float bowl for inspection (airplane has sat for a year), install the engine cowlings, and I think we're ready to go try propping it off. Everything else on my list is cosmetic, so there are very few excuses left. > > Jeff (Boatright)'s flying and landing video was a tremendous inspiration to get me ready for flight again, and just hearing the pocketa-pocketa-pocketa idle of the engine in the video was enough to make me want to hear mine do that again. After I light off the engine I plan to make some long taxi runs to test the ground handling with the new tailwheel, warm up the oil, drain and change it, and then put the airplane away. The following day will be return to flight, God willing, and the airplane will be in Phase 1 flight testing for 5 hours in and around the Medford Class Delta airspace. > > It's just a little over 90 days till the West Coast Piet Fly-In, so I've got to get busy... > > -------- > Oscar Zuniga > Medford, OR > Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" > A75 power > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418848#418848 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Boatright, Jeffrey" <jeffboatright(at)emory.edu>
Subject: Re: Scouting for a new home
Date: Feb 17, 2014
Hi Oscar, Glad the videos inspired you. Other people's videos inspire me, too. Jeff > > ________________________________ This e-mail message (including any attachments) is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this message (including any attachments) is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please contact the sender by reply e-mail message and destroy all copies of the original message (including attachments). ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: steel to aluminum tube comparison
From: "womenfly2" <Love2Fly.KAP(at)gmail.com>
Date: Feb 17, 2014
jarheadpilot82 wrote: > Edited: I would be curious to know how aluminum tubing compares with 1018 steel. You need to specify what "Alloy" of aluminum the tube is to do a comparison to 1018 steel. A "pop" riveted gusset plate aluminum tube Pietenpol fuselage could be done .... would be an interesting exercise. Similar to an Airdrome plane construction. WF2 -------- Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418860#418860 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <jack(at)bedfordlandings.com>
Subject: Re: Eyebrow cowlings
Date: Feb 17, 2014
And be sure you have the inter-cylinder baffles in places to direct the airflow into the cooling fins rather than just escaping between the cylinders. Harry Fenton shows how to build the baffles on his website: http://www.bowersflybaby.com/tech/fenton.htm Jack Phillips NX899JP Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of taildrags Sent: Sunday, February 16, 2014 11:22 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Eyebrow cowlings Steve; The aft parts of the cooling eyebrows (both the ones that I replaced and the new ones) touch the back sides of the cooling fins on the heads and cylinders. On my old ones, there were little grooves worn into the aluminum of the eyebrows... that's how close they were. The ram air that comes shooting in the front needs to change from velocity pressure to static pressure to get it to go down through the fins and around the cylinders and it will escape out the back through any low-resistance openings it can find. Try to keep the baffles close to the finned surfaces. In the case of supersonic airplanes like the Piet, this effect is exaggerated and cooling effects are especially important to control as the airplane approaches Mach 1 and shock waves form ahead of the cooling eyebrows. All kidding aside, down in hot Texas, you need to direct all the cooling air around the finned surfaces and don't let it shoot past them at the rear of the engine. -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418844#418844 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 17, 2014
From: Yahoo! Account Service <skipgadd(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: A65 Rose Bowl cut outs
My Piet/Grega, or rather Doug's Piet still in my hangar till warm weather, has the two holes. below the prop. One is the horizontal oval. Behind this opening is a kind of double funnel, one side is hooked to a exhaust muff to push heat to the carb. The other side could be used for cockpit heat. The bottom hole is round and I believe it helps cool the crankcase like Don said. I think my cowl is a re-used J-3 cowl. Skip -----Original Message----- >From: Don Emch <EmchAir(at)aol.com> >Sent: Feb 16, 2014 9:01 PM >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: A65 Rose Bowl cut outs > > >The idea there is to help cool the crankcase. I went ahead and put one in mine. Kind of a horizontal oval. For all it takes to do it, it's probably a good idea to go ahead and do it now. > >Don Emch >NX899DE > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418837#418837 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Barry Davis" <bed(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Carollton Ga. Gang
Date: Feb 17, 2014
Mike I am trying to get Frank, Harold and Bruce to come up with me on Saturday. Barry Davis Big Piet Builders NX973BP -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of tools Sent: Monday, February 17, 2014 12:56 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Carollton Ga. Gang Hey Bill, I'm having a bunch of folks over next weekend up near Chatt TN (20 to 24 Feb). Among them are a couple of guys who are building steel tube fuse Piets. You're welcome to come up, stay a couple days or whatever. I'll be working on getting my wood fuse Piet assembled (been down for repairs). We're planning on making some control horns, so if you've made yours, we could use the help! Bunch of other shop related stuff going on as well. Maybe some of the Carrollton gang might head up too, all are welcome. Ping me back channel if you're interested and need details! Mike Danford, 423 580 1383 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418849#418849 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: You want to see some real talent?
From: "VanDy" <matthew.vandervort(at)gmail.com>
Date: Feb 17, 2014
I'd never seen Mikes video before, thanks for sharing! -------- A&P/IA Recreational Pilot - working on Private http://www.buckeye-aviation.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418884#418884 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Rose Bowl
From: Gerry Holland <gholland@content-stream.co.uk>
Date: Feb 17, 2014
Many thanks for the replies and advice regarding aluminium Rose Bowl. Will update how it all works our. Regards Gerry ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Carollton Ga. Gang
From: "Bill R" <brcapper(at)gmail.com>
Date: Feb 17, 2014
Jeff Boatright wrote: > Hi Bill, > > I'm up in Decatur, fly my Piet out of Lenora (2GA9), just south of Snellville. Happy to give you a ride some morning or evening. > > Jeff > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcinXNmvXX0 Hi Jeff As it happens my son and I have watched your youtube videos several times over the last few month"s and have even tried to find you via your n number. If you would pm me your contact info I would love to set up a time to come out and see your Pietenpol. Bill Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418892#418892 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Carollton Ga. Gang
From: "Bill R" <brcapper(at)gmail.com>
Date: Feb 17, 2014
tools wrote: > Hey Bill, > > I'm having a bunch of folks over next weekend up near Chatt TN (20 to 24 Feb). Among them are a couple of guys who are building steel tube fuse Piets. You're welcome to come up, stay a couple days or whatever. I'll be working on getting my wood fuse Piet assembled (been down for repairs). We're planning on making some control horns, so if you've made yours, we could use the help! > > Bunch of other shop related stuff going on as well. > > Maybe some of the Carrollton gang might head up too, all are welcome. > > Ping me back channel if you're interested and need details! > > Mike Danford, 423 580 1383 Hey Mike That is a mighty generous offer, unfortunately I have commitments this weekend. I would like rain check on that one though. I will try to give you a ring next week. Thanks Bill Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418894#418894 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: steel to aluminum tube comparison
From: "DonkDoug" <douglas.wright(at)okstate.edu>
Date: Feb 17, 2014
Hey Guys, I have been lurking on here for several years and have really enjoyed most of the discussions, technical talk, tall-tales and so on. I never felt like I had much to contribute so stayed quite until now. I think what will help you compare different sizes of aluminum tubing to steel tubing (and solid wood members of various species for that matter) in compression and tension is a spreadsheet developed by Neal Willford that is posted on EAA's website. I have used it for years to get "ball park" numbers for some of my projects. I will attempt to attach the excel file but if it does not make the trip it is easy enough to find on EAA's website search function. Thanks, Doug Wright Stillwater, OK Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418904#418904 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: steel to aluminum tube comparison
From: "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Feb 17, 2014
Doug; As they say, "you da man!" I went to the EAA website and searched for articles that Neal has authored and there among them is an Excel spreadsheet that calculates the strength of steel, aluminum, and wood. I'll download it and see what it does! -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418905#418905 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Carollton Ga. Gang
From: "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Feb 17, 2014
Oh, if you want rain, come friday! It's an annual event, so no worries. Trying to add "fly in" as we go along. Also welcome to come see NX2RN anytime. Should be back in the air soon, ride available then. Also welcome to come use any shop stuff about any time. We'll be in full swing Thurs and Fri as well. As for Barry and the gang, great! Look forward to seeing you then! Is anyone flying? If so, there are a couple of fields. Wilson field is on the sectional and is available. Not on the sectional is another field about 3 miles due west and is also available. I can get you phone numbers if you want to talk to the field owners first, but I have already talked to them. I've been out of town the last couple of weeks, I'll check on my field tomorrow if there's a possibility. Tools Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418907#418907 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: steel to aluminum tube comparison
From: "DonkDoug" <douglas.wright(at)okstate.edu>
Date: Feb 17, 2014
Oscar, It sounds like you found it. That spreadsheet is real handy. For example, you can plug in the modulus of elasticity for the wood species one might be using to determine that member's equivalent size in spruce. Neal wrote a bunch of these spreadsheets a number of years ago to perform various functions - some structural, some for aerodynamics, and so on. Hope this helps with what you are doing, Doug Wright Stillwater, OK Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418908#418908 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: steel to aluminum tube comparison
From: "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Feb 17, 2014
WF2 wrote- >A "pop" riveted gusset plate aluminum tube Pietenpol fuselage >could be done .... would be an interesting exercise. Similar to >an Airdrome plane construction Well, see, there's nothing new under the sun! Roger Mann's Ultra-Piet "RagWing" is exactly that, and it's been around a good while. Legal ultralight, performance and dimensions actually quite close to the real Air Camper except that the Ultra-Piet is single place (by Part 103 definition). Most fly with air-cooled 2-strokes. Plenty have been built and flown. http://rogermann.org/ragwing/designs/rw1/ -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418922#418922 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: steel to aluminum tube comparison
From: "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Feb 17, 2014
Okay, just doing some what-ifs, not directly related to Pietenpols and certainly not intended to start a "let's build an aluminum Piet!" discussion. I'm studying an ultralight design that is in the old Flying & Glider manuals from the 1930s, steel tube construction, and wondering what an aluminum tube equivalent might be. The subject of my study is weight. As in, is there really a weight advantage to using aluminum over steel? I'll take just one example that I plugged in to the Excel spreadsheet to compare one common steel tube size to aluminum. Although the old designs most likely used mild steel, it's easy to compare 4130 to 6061 and get a rough approximation. For a 5/8" steel tube that is called out as 22 ga., I've used .028" wall thickness 4130 in an 18" length (perhaps a fuselage diagonal?) just for kicks. The critical value is compression... the strength in tension is several times greater than in compression. At any rate, to get an equivalent strength in compression, a 5/8" aluminum tube must have a wall thickness of .065. The weight difference between the two members is .07 lb... a 26% weight savings. If I knew the weight of a basically complete steel-tube fuselage (Jake? Are you out there? Have you weighed yours?)- I could guess at what the overall weight savings might be for a fuselage. Probably only 3-4 lbs.-? -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418924#418924 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: glenschweizer(at)yahoo.com
Subject: Re: steel to aluminum tube comparison
Date: Feb 17, 2014
Ragwing ultrapiet is wood,ply gussets fuse spars are ply Web with spruce caps . ribs are 1/4 x1/4 spruce with ply gussets. Very much like a scout . Fun airplane. Hard to get weight to legal. Ultralight with minimal panel, nice turtledeck, spoked motorcycle wheels and brakes mine came in as a perfect example of a fat Nevada ultralight and I loved it Sent from my iPhone > On Feb 17, 2014, at 7:21 PM, "taildrags" wrote: > > > WF2 wrote- > >> A "pop" riveted gusset plate aluminum tube Pietenpol fuselage >> could be done .... would be an interesting exercise. Similar to >> an Airdrome plane construction > > Well, see, there's nothing new under the sun! Roger Mann's Ultra-Piet "RagWing" is exactly that, and it's been around a good while. Legal ultralight, performance and dimensions actually quite close to the real Air Camper except that the Ultra-Piet is single place (by Part 103 definition). Most fly with air-cooled 2-strokes. Plenty have been built and flown. > > http://rogermann.org/ragwing/designs/rw1/ > > -------- > Oscar Zuniga > Medford, OR > Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" > A75 power > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418922#418922 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Indinapolis Piets
From: "aviken" <aviken(at)windstream.net>
Date: Feb 18, 2014
My wife and I are planning a trip to Indianapolis In. next weekend to visit her relatives. Are there any piet builders there that might not mind if I took a look, and some pictures? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418930#418930 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: steel to aluminum tube comparison
From: "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca>
Date: Feb 18, 2014
Oscar, One other thing to keep in mind, when doing your "what if" comparison, is that with steel tube construction, the joints are welded, with very little weight attributed to the welds, whereas with aluminum tube construction, the joints are gusseted and riveted. The weight attributed to the gussets and rivets should be taken into account in your theoretical calculations. In the end, I wouldn't anticipate a significant difference. Bill C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418932#418932 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Carollton Ga. Gang
From: airlion2(at)gmail.com
Date: Feb 18, 2014
What is the identifier for your strip? Gardiner Sent from my iPad > On Feb 17, 2014, at 7:07 PM, "tools" wrote: > > > Oh, if you want rain, come friday! It's an annual event, so no worries. Trying to add "fly in" as we go along. Also welcome to come see NX2RN anytime. Should be back in the air soon, ride available then. > > Also welcome to come use any shop stuff about any time. > > We'll be in full swing Thurs and Fri as well. > > As for Barry and the gang, great! Look forward to seeing you then! Is anyone flying? If so, there are a couple of fields. Wilson field is on the sectional and is available. Not on the sectional is another field about 3 miles due west and is also available. I can get you phone numbers if you want to talk to the field owners first, but I have already talked to them. > > I've been out of town the last couple of weeks, I'll check on my field tomorrow if there's a possibility. > > Tools > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418907#418907 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Barry Davis" <bed(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Carrollton Ga. Gang
Date: Feb 18, 2014
I think since you are only about an hour and a half away, we will drive up on Saturday for the day. Barry PS: If we had a problem with all the automatic weapons in the airplane, I bet we would make national news.LOL -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of tools Sent: Monday, February 17, 2014 7:08 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Carollton Ga. Gang Oh, if you want rain, come friday! It's an annual event, so no worries. Trying to add "fly in" as we go along. Also welcome to come see NX2RN anytime. Should be back in the air soon, ride available then. Also welcome to come use any shop stuff about any time. We'll be in full swing Thurs and Fri as well. As for Barry and the gang, great! Look forward to seeing you then! Is anyone flying? If so, there are a couple of fields. Wilson field is on the sectional and is available. Not on the sectional is another field about 3 miles due west and is also available. I can get you phone numbers if you want to talk to the field owners first, but I have already talked to them. I've been out of town the last couple of weeks, I'll check on my field tomorrow if there's a possibility. Tools Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418907#418907 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Carollton Ga. Gang
From: "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Feb 18, 2014
No ident, it's just my yard... The coords are: 34.833250, 85.325110 The best field to fly into is either Wilson Field 34.869454, -85.200019i Or Wendell's place: 34.872324, -85.250305 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418944#418944 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Carollton Ga. Gang
From: "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Feb 18, 2014
My steel tube fuselage is currently in Florida, and it weighs in at 43.2 lbs. it was built to the Flying and Glider Manual plans, no longer or no wider. I should have it back here (in Athens, GA) this spring and you are welcome to come by once it gets here. I will keep you posted. -------- Semper Fi, Terry Hand Athens, GA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418953#418953 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Indinapolis Piets
From: "dwilson" <marwilson(at)charter.net>
Date: Feb 18, 2014
You could give a shout out to Bill Princell, I don't know if he is home this time of year I think he spends some time during the cold months in the deep South. Dan Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418963#418963 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 19, 2014
From: Ben Charvet <bencharvet(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: A65 Rose Bowl cut outs
Why make it a horizontal cutout? I decided to give my Piet a smile! Ben On 2/16/2014 8:36 PM, taildrags wrote: > > Gerry; > > On most photos of J-3s that I've seen, there is a sort of horizontal slot just below the hole for the prop hub and then a round hole below that, and then the air filter. I have no idea what the horizontal slot is for but I believe the hole below it leads into the heat muff for carb heat since I believe it has a mesh screen in the opening. Neither of those openings should have anything to do with cooling the engine or oil sump. However, the J-3 does not have a pressure cowl so there is cooling air entering through the eyebrows, sweeping down over the cylinders, the out the bottom of the cowling after going around the oil sump and carb. > > I think you can dispense with any additional cutouts. Test fly it and watch the oil and cylinder head temps and then decide if you need any additional openings. It's easier to cut new ones than to patch ones that you don't need. > > -------- > Oscar Zuniga > Medford, OR > Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" > A75 power > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418834#418834 > > -- Ben Charvet, PharmD Staff Pharmacist Parrish Medical center ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: A65 Rose Bowl cut outs
From: "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Feb 19, 2014
Ben; that cutout does look kinda cute! I'll bet the skullcap spinner on the prop adds at least 5 MPH to your top speed, too! ;o) By the way, is that the pitot tube out there on the port side wing, near the strut attachment? I couldn't see anything else that might be it in the photo. -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419007#419007 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ray Krause <raykrause(at)frontiernet.net>
Subject: Re: A65 Rose Bowl cut outs
Date: Feb 19, 2014
Ben, Is your "Rose Bowl" made of metal, or fiberglass? If fiberglass, did you make the "mold"? If metal, how did you do it? Thanks, Ray Krause Struggling with my "Rose Bowl" for SkyScout. Sent from my iPad > On Feb 19, 2014, at 6:06 AM, Ben Charvet wrote: > > Why make it a horizontal cutout? I decided to give my Piet a smile! > > Ben >> On 2/16/2014 8:36 PM, taildrags wrote: >> >> Gerry; >> >> On most photos of J-3s that I've seen, there is a sort of horizontal slot just below the hole for the prop hub and then a round hole below that, and then the air filter. I have no idea what the horizontal slot is for but I believe the hole below it leads into the heat muff for carb heat since I believe it has a mesh screen in the opening. Neither of those openings should have anything to do with cooling the engine or oil sump. However, the J-3 does not have a pressure cowl so there is cooling air entering through the eyebrows, sweeping down over the cylinders, the out the bottom of the cowling after going around the oil sump and carb. >> >> I think you can dispense with any additional cutouts. Test fly it and watch the oil and cylinder head temps and then decide if you need any additional openings. It's easier to cut new ones than to patch ones that you don't need. >> >> -------- >> Oscar Zuniga >> Medford, OR >> Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" >> A75 power >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418834#418834 > > > -- > Ben Charvet, PharmD > Staff Pharmacist > Parrish Medical center > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: A65 Rose Bowl cut outs
From: "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Feb 19, 2014
I think Gerry calls his a "Rose Bowl" because it's on a Rose Parrakeet. I guess ours could be called a "Pieten Bowl" ;o) -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419011#419011 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: A65 Rose Bowl cut outs
From: "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Feb 19, 2014
Ahhh... my bad. Gerry's airplane is a Corben Baby Ace D. Now I'm not sure why he calls it a Rose Bowl and not a Baby Bowl ;o) I have heard from another builder that the rectangular slot is intended to deliver cooling air to the engine cases and oil sump, so it's probably a good idea. Pretty easy to run some tests with the opening taped up to see what difference it makes in oil temp after about 30 minutes in cruise flight. -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419012#419012 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: A65 Nose Bowl cut outs...forget Rose!
From: Gerry Holland <gholland@content-stream.co.uk>
Date: Feb 19, 2014
Oscar Hi. I'm now doubting my sanity. WHY?..... Rose Bowl? In truth I don't know where that came from. Perhaps Nose Bowl is what I mean. Old age has crept up. On my earlier Corben I had the oval slot but cover it with aluminium panel. It didn't cause any temperature problems. But here summer temperatures never go above 80F anyway. Picture attached. Gerry ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Calling Ryan Mueller...
From: "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com>
Date: Feb 19, 2014
Does anyone have a good email for Ryan Mueller? Or Ryan if you see this could you email me at WingWright(at)gmail.com Thanks! Don Emch NX899DE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419034#419034 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Still no newsletter...
From: "tkreiner" <tkreiner(at)gmail.com>
Date: Feb 20, 2014
OK, it's been a number of weeks, and I'm wondering whether the newsletter is enroute, or what??? Along with others, I signed up for two additional years, but nothing this year so far... Anyone know what gives? -------- Tom Kreiner Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419054#419054 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Still no newsletter...
From: John Hofmann <jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc.com>
Date: Feb 20, 2014
The newsletter mailed a week and a half ago. I have not gotten mine yet and I only live an hour from the printer. Best, -john- John Hofmann Vice-President, IT and Production The Rees Group, Inc. 2424 American Lane Madison, WI 53704 Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150 Fax: 608.443.2474 Email: jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc.com On Feb 20, 2014, at 6:48 AM, tkreiner wrote: > > OK, it's been a number of weeks, and I'm wondering whether the newsletter is enroute, or what??? > > Along with others, I signed up for two additional years, but nothing this year so far... > > Anyone know what gives? > > -------- > Tom Kreiner > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419054#419054 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 20, 2014
From: Ben Charvet <bencharvet(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Ben's fiberglass cowling (was nose bowl)
My cowling is fiberglass, made on a one-off male plug built right on the fuselage. I basically had an old A-65 case bolted to the motormount, with the carb and airbox/filter attached. I made a rough outline with lath wire and formers around that, then coated it with multiple layers of drywall mud until the shape was what I wanted. I really wanted a smooth transition around the aircleaner, and a curved top. It was a two month project, but it turned out pretty nice and is lightweight, attached to the firewall only. If you are interested I have some pictures of the process I can post later. Ben On 2/19/2014 1:49 PM, Ray Krause wrote: > > Ben, > > Is your "Rose Bowl" made of metal, or fiberglass? If fiberglass, did you make the "mold"? If metal, how did you do it? > > Thanks, > > Ray Krause > Struggling with my "Rose Bowl" for SkyScout. > > Sent from my iPad > >> On Feb 19, 2014, at 6:06 AM, Ben Charvet wrote: >> >> Why make it a horizontal cutout? I decided to give my Piet a smile! >> >> Ben >>> On 2/16/2014 8:36 PM, taildrags wrote: >>> >>> Gerry; >>> >>> On most photos of J-3s that I've seen, there is a sort of horizontal slot just below the hole for the prop hub and then a round hole below that, and then the air filter. I have no idea what the horizontal slot is for but I believe the hole below it leads into the heat muff for carb heat since I believe it has a mesh screen in the opening. Neither of those openings should have anything to do with cooling the engine or oil sump. However, the J-3 does not have a pressure cowl so there is cooling air entering through the eyebrows, sweeping down over the cylinders, the out the bottom of the cowling after going around the oil sump and carb. >>> >>> I think you can dispense with any additional cutouts. Test fly it and watch the oil and cylinder head temps and then decide if you need any additional openings. It's easier to cut new ones than to patch ones that you don't need. >>> >>> -------- >>> Oscar Zuniga >>> Medford, OR >>> Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" >>> A75 power >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Read this topic online here: >>> >>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418834#418834 >> >> -- >> Ben Charvet, PharmD >> Staff Pharmacist >> Parrish Medical center >> >> > > -- Ben Charvet, PharmD Staff Pharmacist Parrish Medical center ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Still no newsletter...
From: "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca>
Date: Feb 20, 2014
I got mine two days ago. But then, I live in a different country, so it's only logical that it would get here first. :) By the way, John... good job on the newsletter. Doc and Dee have left it in good hands. Bill C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419059#419059 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Still no newsletter...
From: "Pietflyer1977" <rob(at)stoinoff.com>
Date: Feb 20, 2014
I never have received mine. Where were they mailed from? If it's been a week and a half would think it would have been here? Just want to make sure, do you have me listed as a current member John? I know my dues are paid up. Thanks. Rob Stoinoff Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419069#419069 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Still no newsletter...
From: John Hofmann <jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc.com>
Date: Feb 20, 2014
They were mailed from Brodhead, media mail. That can take ten days to two weeks. You were on the list. Best, -john- John Hofmann Vice-President, IT and Production The Rees Group, Inc. 2424 American Lane Madison, WI 53704 Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150 Fax: 608.443.2474 Email: jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc.com On Feb 20, 2014, at 11:15 AM, Pietflyer1977 wrote: > > I never have received mine. Where were they mailed from? If it's been a week and a half would think it would have been here? Just want to make sure, do you have me listed as a current member John? I know my dues are paid up. Thanks. Rob Stoinoff > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419069#419069 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Boatright, Jeffrey" <jeffboatright(at)emory.edu>
Subject: Re: Still no newsletter...
Date: Feb 20, 2014
Didn't get one down here in Georgia. -- Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD, FARVO Associate Professor of Ophthalmology Emory University School of Medicine On 2/20/14 12:15 PM, "Pietflyer1977" wrote: > >I never have received mine. Where were they mailed from? If it's been a >week and a half would think it would have been here? Just want to make >sure, do you have me listed as a current member John? I know my dues are >paid up. Thanks. Rob Stoinoff > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419069#419069 > > ________________________________ This e-mail message (including any attachments) is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this message (including any attachments) is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please contact the sender by reply e-mail message and destroy all copies of the original message (including attachments). ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Still no newsletter...
From: "Pietflyer1977" <rob(at)stoinoff.com>
Date: Feb 20, 2014
Ok, Thanks for checking John. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419077#419077 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Still no newsletter...
From: "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Feb 20, 2014
As Pietenpolers, we're quite used to the low 'n' slow method of delivery. Patience wins the day. -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419080#419080 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Subject: Thank you to John Hofmann for taking on the Pietenpol
Newsletter
Date: Feb 20, 2014
John, I would like to personally THANK you for taking on the HUGE responsibility of taking over the Pietenpol newsletter for our group. Doc and Dee have done a wonderful job over the years and it is NO small tas k to take on such an effort, especially when you're working full time and have a myriad of other responsibilities so THANK you for doin g this for us. Putting together such a newsletter must require a large amount of time and effort with answering e-mails, phone calls, logging membership dues, putting together mailing lists, articles, and formatting the newslett er then getting it to the printer and mailed out. This is a thankless job you've taken on sometimes I'm sure John and quick are some to complain about the little things but you're doing this out of your OWN time, your own efforts, and we are the benefactors of your talents, gifts, and abilities and for that I am very appreciative as are, I'm sure, many others on this list. Mike C. Ohio ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Ben's fiberglass cowling (was nose bowl)
From: Scott Knowlton <flyingscott_k(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Feb 20, 2014
Ben, Love to see pics of the process. Scott Knowlton Sent from my iPhone > On Feb 20, 2014, at 6:28 AM, "Ben Charvet" wrote: > > > My cowling is fiberglass, made on a one-off male plug built right on the fuselage. I basically had an old A-65 case bolted to the motormount, with the carb and airbox/filter attached. I made a rough outline with lath wire and formers around that, then coated it with multiple layers of drywall mud until the shape was what I wanted. I really wanted a smooth transition around the aircleaner, and a curved top. It was a two month project, but it turned out pretty nice and is lightweight, attached to the firewall only. If you are interested I have some pictures of the process I can post later. > > Ben >> On 2/19/2014 1:49 PM, Ray Krause wrote: >> >> Ben, >> >> Is your "Rose Bowl" made of metal, or fiberglass? If fiberglass, did you make the "mold"? If metal, how did you do it? >> >> Thanks, >> >> Ray Krause >> Struggling with my "Rose Bowl" for SkyScout. >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >>> On Feb 19, 2014, at 6:06 AM, Ben Charvet wrote: >>> >>> Why make it a horizontal cutout? I decided to give my Piet a smile! >>> >>> Ben >>>> On 2/16/2014 8:36 PM, taildrags wrote: >>>> >>>> Gerry; >>>> >>>> On most photos of J-3s that I've seen, there is a sort of horizontal slot just below the hole for the prop hub and then a round hole below that, and then the air filter. I have no idea what the horizontal slot is for but I believe the hole below it leads into the heat muff for carb heat since I believe it has a mesh screen in the opening. Neither of those openings should have anything to do with cooling the engine or oil sump. However, the J-3 does not have a pressure cowl so there is cooling air entering through the eyebrows, sweeping down over the cylinders, the out the bottom of the cowling after going around the oil sump and carb. >>>> >>>> I think you can dispense with any additional cutouts. Test fly it and watch the oil and cylinder head temps and then decide if you need any additional openings. It's easier to cut new ones than to patch ones that you don't need. >>>> >>>> -------- >>>> Oscar Zuniga >>>> Medford, OR >>>> Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" >>>> A75 power >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Read this topic online here: >>>> >>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418834#418834 >>> >>> -- >>> Ben Charvet, PharmD >>> Staff Pharmacist >>> Parrish Medical center >>> >>> > > > -- > Ben Charvet, PharmD > Staff Pharmacist > Parrish Medical center > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Barry Davis" <bed(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Thank you to John Hofmann for taking on the Pietenpol
Newsletter
Date: Feb 20, 2014
Dang Mike.. You took the words out of my mouth. A BIG Thank You to John - publishing a newsletter is no small task. Barry Davis NX973BP From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC] Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2014 3:17 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Thank you to John Hofmann for taking on the Pietenpol Newsletter John, I would like to personally THANK you for taking on the HUGE responsibility of taking over the Pietenpol newsletter for our group. Doc and Dee have done a wonderful job over the years and it is NO small task to take on such an effort, especially when you're working full time and have a myriad of other responsibilities so THANK you for doing this for us. Putting together such a newsletter must require a large amount of time and effort with answering e-mails, phone calls, logging membership dues, putting together mailing lists, articles, and formatting the newsletter then getting it to the printer and mailed out. This is a thankless job you've taken on sometimes I'm sure John and quick are some to complain about the little things but you're doing this out of your OWN time, your own efforts, and we are the benefactors of your talents, gifts, and abilities and for that I am very appreciative as are, I'm sure, many others on this list. Mike C. Ohio ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Thank you to John Hofmann for taking on the Pietenpol
Newsletter
From: Jack <jack(at)textors.com>
Date: Feb 20, 2014
Dang Barry, what Mike said! Sent from my iPhone On Feb 20, 2014, at 2:44 PM, "Barry Davis" wrote: > Dang Mike > You took the words out of my mouth. > A BIG Thank You to John =93 publishing a newsletter is no small task . > Barry Davis > NX973BP > > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-li st-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Par tners, LLC] > Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2014 3:17 PM > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Thank you to John Hofmann for taking on the Piete npol Newsletter > > John, > > I would like to personally THANK you for taking on the HUGE responsibility of taking over the Pietenpol newsletter for our group. > Doc and Dee have done a wonderful job over the years and it is NO small ta sk to take on such an effort, especially when you=99re working > full time and have a myriad of other responsibilities so THANK you for doi ng this for us. > > Putting together such a newsletter must require a large amount of time and effort with answering e-mails, phone calls, logging membership > dues, putting together mailing lists, articles, and formatting the newslet ter then getting it to the printer and mailed out. > > This is a thankless job you=99ve taken on sometimes I=99m sure John and quick are some to complain about the little things but you=99 re doing this > out of your OWN time, your own efforts, and we are the benefactors of your talents, gifts, and abilities and for that I am very appreciative > as are, I=99m sure, many others on this list. > > Mike C. > Ohio > > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > http://forums.matronics.com > http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Thank you to John Hofmann for taking on the Pietenpol
Newsletter
From: Gary Boothe <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Date: Feb 20, 2014
Other than Bill Church, does anyone know that he actually published anything ? I haven't been home for a week, so I have no idea...;-) Gary NX308MB Sent from my iPhone > On Feb 20, 2014, at 1:44 PM, Jack wrote: > > Dang Barry, what Mike said! > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Feb 20, 2014, at 2:44 PM, "Barry Davis" wrote: >> >> Dang Mike >> You took the words out of my mouth. >> A BIG Thank You to John =93 publishing a newsletter is no small tas k. >> Barry Davis >> NX973BP >> >> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-l ist-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Pa rtners, LLC] >> Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2014 3:17 PM >> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Thank you to John Hofmann for taking on the Piet enpol Newsletter >> >> John, >> >> I would like to personally THANK you for taking on the HUGE responsibilit y of taking over the Pietenpol newsletter for our group. >> Doc and Dee have done a wonderful job over the years and it is NO small t ask to take on such an effort, especially when you=99re working >> full time and have a myriad of other responsibilities so THANK you for do ing this for us. >> >> Putting together such a newsletter must require a large amount of time an d effort with answering e-mails, phone calls, logging membership >> dues, putting together mailing lists, articles, and formatting the newsle tter then getting it to the printer and mailed out. >> >> This is a thankless job you=99ve taken on sometimes I=99m sur e John and quick are some to complain about the little things but you=99 re doing this >> out of your OWN time, your own efforts, and we are the benefactors of you r talents, gifts, and abilities and for that I am very appreciative >> as are, I=99m sure, many others on this list. >> >> Mike C. >> Ohio >> >> >> >> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List >> http://forums.matronics.com >> http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> >> >> >> ========================= ========= >> >http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List >> ========================= ========= >> cs.com >> ========================= ========= >> matronics.com/contribution >> ========================= ========= >> > > 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Thank you to John Hofmann for taking on the Pietenpol
Newsle
From: "aerocarjake" <flight.jake(at)gmail.com>
Date: Feb 20, 2014
Agreed..... Thanks john for stepping up to the newsletter....! As I build it is sure nice to receive the newsletters - to provide motivation and inspiration to this very long process/adventure....... -------- Jake Schultz - curator, Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419097#419097 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Thank you to John Hofmann for taking on the Pietenpol
Newsletter
From: Rick <lmforge(at)earthlink.net>
Date: Feb 20, 2014
Very well said Mike! I too would like to thank you John for the effort. Oh by the way my newsletter came today and I am about ready to start reading . Sent from my iPad Rick Schreiber Valparaiso, In On Feb 20, 2014, at 2:16 PM, "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, L LC]" wrote: > John, > > I would like to personally THANK you for taking on the HUGE responsibility of taking over the Pietenpol newsletter for our group. > Doc and Dee have done a wonderful job over the years and it is NO small ta sk to take on such an effort, especially when you=99re working > full time and have a myriad of other responsibilities so THANK you for doi ng this for us. > > Putting together such a newsletter must require a large amount of time and effort with answering e-mails, phone calls, logging membership > dues, putting together mailing lists, articles, and formatting the newslet ter then getting it to the printer and mailed out. > > This is a thankless job you=99ve taken on sometimes I=99m sure John and quick are some to complain about the little things but you=99 re doing this > out of your OWN time, your own efforts, and we are the benefactors of your talents, gifts, and abilities and for that I am very appreciative > as are, I=99m sure, many others on this list. > > Mike C. > Ohio > > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Thank you to John Hofmann for taking on the Pietenpol
Newsletter
From: danhelsper(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 21, 2014
>From me also, thank you John Hoffman! Dan Helsper Puryear, TN John, I would like to personally THANK you for taking on the HUGE responsibility of taking over the Pietenpol newsletter for our group. Doc and Dee have done a wonderful job over the years and it is NO small tas k to take on such an effort, especially when you=99re working full time and have a myriad of other responsibilities so THANK you for doin g this for us. Putting together such a newsletter must require a large amount of time and effort with answering e-mails, phone calls, logging membership dues, putting together mailing lists, articles, and formatting the newslett er then getting it to the printer and mailed out. This is a thankless job you=99ve taken on sometimes I=99m sure John and quick are some to complain about the little things but you =99re doing this out of your OWN time, your own efforts, and we are the benefactors of your talents, gifts, and abilities and for that I am very appreciative as are, I=99m sure, many others on this list. Mike C. Ohio ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Thank you to John Hofmann for taking on the Pietenpol
Newsl
From: "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com>
Date: Feb 21, 2014
>From me too... thanks John! For many many years (I think since the '70s), there has been a newsletter to unite the Pietenpol folks. I think it is awesome that John stepped up to the plate to continue the tradition. It takes a special kind of person to have the creative and knowledgeable mind to put that together. Thanks again John! Don Emch NX899DE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419110#419110 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: newsletter
Date: Feb 21, 2014
What Mike, Barry, Jack and everybody else said! THANK YOU JOHN!! We should all support the BPA by becoming members and helping in any way we can. In this day of electronic everything, it is SO very nice to have a paper newsletter to keep, re-read and stack on the bookshelf to look at later and scribble all over. It resonates with the essence of Pietenpolling. I know Doc and Dee always welcomed articles, pics, progress reports and other tidbits of interest to help with material and I'm guessing John will too. Don't be afraid to send it in, it might be used and might encourage someone else. Thought I had a "flying window" last few days as it actually got above freezing, but the dang winds won't quit! Douwe ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 21, 2014
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: newsletter
The couple times I sent in an article for the newsletter, Doc mailed me a copy with the article in it. I assumed that if anyone sent in an article, Doc would send them a copy of that newsletter, regardless if they subscribed or not. Since I was a subscriber, I ended up with two copies of the newsletters that I had articles in. Not sure if this will continue, but it was a nice "thank you" gesture for writing something and contributing. However John decides to run the show now, I appreciate the fact that someone is doing so. If God is your co-pilot...switch seats. Michael Perez Pietenpol HINT Videos KaretakerAero www.karetakeraero.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 21, 2014
Subject: Re: Thank you to John Hofmann for taking on the Pietenpol
Newsl
From: Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com>
OK, OK, I know y'all are talking about me. How do I join the Buckeye Pietenpol Association? Remember It took me a while to finally buy Uncle Tony's books, and getting the flight and glider manuals. I am indeed a slow learner. Blue Skies, Steve D On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 8:16 AM, Don Emch wrote: > > >From me too... thanks John! For many many years (I think since the > '70s), there has been a newsletter to unite the Pietenpol folks. I think > it is awesome that John stepped up to the plate to continue the tradition. > It takes a special kind of person to have the creative and knowledgeable > mind to put that together. Thanks again John! > > Don Emch > NX899DE > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419110#419110 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Still no newsletter...
From: "john francis" <Mrkringles(at)msn.com>
Date: Feb 21, 2014
Got my newsletter today.....of course I live in Russia. [Laughing] -------- John Francis Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419137#419137 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Still no newsletter...
From: "Pietflyer1977" <rob(at)stoinoff.com>
Date: Feb 21, 2014
Heeyyyy...I got it! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419141#419141 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 21, 2014
From: "prhoads61(at)frontiernet.net" <prhoads61(at)frontiernet.net>
Subject: Re: Still no newsletter...
Got mine today. Thanks, John !!=0APerry Rhoads=0AN12939=0A =0A=0A__________ ______________________=0A From: Pietflyer1977 <rob(at)stoinoff.com>=0ATo: piet enpol-list(at)matronics.com =0ASent: Friday, February 21, 2014 5:07 PM=0ASubje ct: Pietenpol-List: Re: Still no newsletter...=0A =0A=0A--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Pietflyer1977" =0A=0AHeeyyyy...I got it!=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronic ============= ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Still no newsletter...
Date: Feb 21, 2014
...still nothing, but that's OK. News travels slowly over the Sierra's. That's why many of the '49'ers didn't get here until 1850. Gary Boothe NX308MB -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pietflyer1977 Sent: Friday, February 21, 2014 3:07 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Still no newsletter... Heeyyyy...I got it! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419141#419141 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: BPA
Date: Feb 22, 2014
FYI, BPA now stands for "Brodhead Pietenpol Association", which supercedes the old "Buckeye Pietenpol Association" Changed over in the nineties I think. Douwe ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Still no newsletter...
From: "Larry Vetter" <vetter(at)evertek.net>
Date: Feb 22, 2014
Got mine yesterday Feb.21 Thanks John for taking it over :) Larry Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419161#419161 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Feb 20 to 24, hangar gathering, doing "stuff", Cha
From: "pringljo" <joseph.pringle(at)gmail.com>
Date: Feb 22, 2014
Had a great time up at Mike's place today. Saw several acquaintances that I had met at previous events, and met several new friends as well. Mike was very generous, giving us free reign over his extensive tool collection. I was able to get a great start on my control horns. Also can't say enough about what a Wonderful hostess Mike's wife is. Amazing meals for a whole bunch of guys. Thanks so much. -------- Joe Pringle Atlanta, GA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419164#419164 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Feb 20 to 24, hangar gathering, doing "stuff", Cha
From: "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Feb 23, 2014
THANKS for coming! We actually had a pretty good showing of Pieters whom I thought ALL integrated well with the old woodworking machines crowd. The weekend (still underway, just had a newcomer show a few minutes ago) was fantastically productive. The Carrollton gang pledged to come early and stay next year to help (BADLY needed) mentor the Piet crowd with their projects. Everyone pitched in a lot to keep things moving. However, it was Kellie and Judy who, for no other than reason being saints, brunted the VAST majority of responsibility for folks being fed WELL and timely. My philosophy is let grown men fend for themselves... probably flawed thinking anyway! Thanks to them! Hope to see more folks next year. There's some pics in the "events" section of OWWM.ORG for folks who want to visit vicariously. Cheers, Tools Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419175#419175 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: larharris2 Harris <larharris2(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Feb 20 to 24, hangar gathering, doing "stuff",
Cha
Date: Feb 23, 2014
I showed up Sat. but was mostly a 'lurker'. My undying gratitude for your g reat hospitality. If you hold the event next year=2C I think I can promise to bring a (mostly) completed Piet from Tellico Plains=2C TN=2C & I will ge t more involved in participation. Many thanks for an exceptional event. Lorenzo > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Feb 20 to 24=2C hangar gathering=2C doing "s tuff"=2C Cha > From: n0kkj(at)yahoo.com > Date: Sun=2C 23 Feb 2014 05:49:08 -0800 > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > > > THANKS for coming! We actually had a pretty good showing of Pieters whom I thought ALL integrated well with the old woodworking machines crowd. > > The weekend (still underway=2C just had a newcomer show a few minutes ago ) was fantastically productive. The Carrollton gang pledged to come early and stay next year to help (BADLY needed) mentor the Piet crowd with their projects. > > Everyone pitched in a lot to keep things moving. However=2C it was Kelli e and Judy who=2C for no other than reason being saints=2C brunted the VAST majority of responsibility for folks being fed WELL and timely. My philos ophy is let grown men fend for themselves... probably flawed thinking anywa y! Thanks to them! > > Hope to see more folks next year. There's some pics in the "events" sect ion of OWWM.ORG for folks who want to visit vicariously. > > Cheers=2C > > Tools > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419175#419175 > > > > > > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Still no newsletter...
From: "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Feb 23, 2014
Got mine in Friday's mail, and I'm over in the Pacific NW. Good job, John! -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419186#419186 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Scouting for a new home
From: "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Feb 23, 2014
A little more progress towards a return to flight. Got the oil screen out, cleaned, and the residue inspected (nothing seemed to be glittering in there). Thanks to Mike Cuy or whoever it was who suggested running the cleaning solvent and residue through a coffee filter and then letting it dry to see what's in there. Works great. Cleaned the carb inlet screen, drained the float bowl (and yes, I lifted the tail to try to get as much as I could out of there). Just looking for crud anywhere I can think of. Re-torqued the prop bolts and safetied them. I think everything is ready to go, firewall forward. Just need to reinstall my centersection flop and the new rear cockpit windscreen, check the brake fluid level in the masters, and I think it's ready to fuel up. That will have to wait till next weekend... too busy right now. -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419188#419188 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Feb 20 to 24, hangar gathering, doing "stuff", Cha
From: "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Feb 23, 2014
You are VERY welcome, it was my pleasure. I do hope to see you again next year. There should be a lot more Piet mentors there next year. Speaking of, you would be a good mentor as you now have a feel for how things run and what it's like. Thanks for coming! Tools Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419206#419206 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: safety wire
From: "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Feb 23, 2014
By the way, and since the list is fairly quiet right now, I'll take a minute to post this. The words "safety wire" should be changed to something else. Every time I have to safety something, I end up with more cuts than a government sequester and "safety wire" is quite unsafe when it comes to its tendency to draw blood. The two worst offenders are the .041 and the .020. The medium-sized wire is fairly well behaved because you can bend it easily and tease it into place with your fingers, but the .041 is a beast to deal with unless you use pliers and the small stuff is like a tiny silver viper, just waiting to get you with its little fang. And just try working it in a blind area without getting bitten. The other thing about safety wire is that I waste a lot of it by re-doing the safetying. I can never remember the right way to safety pairs of things and I have to start over, or I cut the piece of wire just a little too short and have to start over. I've also noticed that I get the dirty eye from A&Ps when I use any of the smaller sizes of wire. They want everything done in .041 unless the hole in the fastener simply will not pass that size of wire, and it's crazy. Why do we even have anything but .041 then? And why try fishing it through all the little screws and jets and things on a Stromberg carb? My guess is that I could take my big old single-speed Craftsman 1/2" drill and chuck a fly cutter in it, then stake it down with a piece of .041 safety wire and try to bore a hole in some kind of gnarly material with the fly cutter off-axis, and that thing could bite and claw and try to torque itself like a fork in spaghetti and a single strand of .041 could hold it. Why in heaven's name we need to put that heavy safety wire on little fasteners and turnbuckles I will never know. -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419209#419209 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Subject: safety wire
Date: Feb 23, 2014
Fortunately, the manufacturer of NX308MB specified .020. Gary Boothe NX308MB -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of taildrags Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2014 8:24 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: safety wire --> By the way, and since the list is fairly quiet right now, I'll take a minute to post this. The words "safety wire" should be changed to something else. Every time I have to safety something, I end up with more cuts than a government sequester and "safety wire" is quite unsafe when it comes to its tendency to draw blood. The two worst offenders are the .041 and the .020. The medium-sized wire is fairly well behaved because you can bend it easily and tease it into place with your fingers, but the .041 is a beast to deal with unless you use pliers and the small stuff is like a tiny silver viper, just waiting to get you with its little fang. And just try working it in a blind area without getting bitten. The other thing about safety wire is that I waste a lot of it by re-doing the safetying. I can never remember the right way to safety pairs of things and I have to start over, or I cut the piece of wire just a little too short and have to start over. I've also noticed that I get the dirty eye from A&Ps when I use any of the smaller sizes of wire. They want everything done in .041 unless the hole in the fastener simply will not pass that size of wire, and it's crazy. Why do we even have anything but .041 then? And why try fishing it through all the little screws and jets and things on a Stromberg carb? My guess is that I could take my big old single-speed Craftsman 1/2" drill and chuck a fly cutter in it, then stake it down with a piece of .041 safety wire and try to bore a hole in some kind of gnarly material with the fly cutter off-axis, and that thing could bite and claw and try to torque itself like a fork in spaghetti and a single strand of .041 could hold it. Why in heaven's name we need to put that heavy safety wire on little fasteners and turnbuckles I will never know. -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419209#419209 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Feb 20 to 24, hangar gathering, doing "stuff",
Cha
From: danhelsper(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 24, 2014
Tools, Any photos from the event? Dan Helsper Puryear, TN -----Original Message----- From: tools <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com> Sent: Sun, Feb 23, 2014 7:52 pm Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Feb 20 to 24, hangar gathering, doing "stuff", Cha You are VERY welcome, it was my pleasure. I do hope to see you again next year. There should be a lot more Piet mentors there next year. Speaking of, you would be a good mentor as you now have a feel for how things run and what it's li ke. Thanks for coming! Tools Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419206#419206 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Feb 20 to 24, hangar gathering, doing "stuff", Cha
From: "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Feb 24, 2014
I didn't take a single one! However, there are some posted in the "events" section of www.owwm.org, in a thread about "Toolstock". More will show up. I'll also get sent some videos a buddy took and will post them here when they show up. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419219#419219 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 24, 2014
From: shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: safety wire
I almost always use .032 at work unless something else is called out. Prop bolts, and turnbuckles are about the onlt thing I can think you need .041 on a Piet. Most electrical connections (cannon plugs), or small philister head screws (6-32, 8-32) use .021, or .025. Shad -------------------------------------------- On Sun, 2/23/14, Gary Boothe wrote: Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: safety wire To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Date: Sunday, February 23, 2014, 11:50 PM --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Gary Boothe" Fortunately, the manufacturer of NX308MB specified .020. Gary Boothe NX308MB -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of taildrags Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2014 8:24 PM To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: safety wire --> By the way, and since the list is fairly quiet right now, I'll take a minute to post this. The words "safety wire" should be changed to something else. Every time I have to safety something, I end up with more cuts than a government sequester and "safety wire" is quite unsafe when it comes to its tendency to draw blood. The two worst offenders are the .041 and the .020. The medium-sized wire is fairly well behaved because you can bend it easily and tease it into place with your fingers, but the .041 is a beast to deal with unless you use pliers and the small stuff is like a tiny silver viper, just waiting to get you with its little fang. And just try working it in a blind area without getting bitten. The other thing about safety wire is that I waste a lot of it by re-doing the safetying. I can never remember the right way to safety pairs of things and I have to start over, or I cut the piece of wire just a little too short and have to start over. I've also noticed that I get the dirty eye from A&Ps when I use any of the smaller sizes of wire. They want everything done in .041 unless the hole in the fastener simply will not pass that size of wire, and it's crazy. Why do we even have anything but .041 then? And why try fishing it through all the little screws and jets and things on a Stromberg carb? My guess is that I could take my big old single-speed Craftsman 1/2" drill and chuck a fly cutter in it, then stake it down with a piece of .041 safety wire and try to bore a hole in some kind of gnarly material with the fly cutter off-axis, and that thing could bite and claw and try to torque itself like a fork in spaghetti and a single strand of .041 could hold it. Why in heaven's name we need to put that heavy safety wire on little fasteners and turnbuckles I will never know. -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419209#419209 Email Forum - - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - List Contribution Web Site - -Matt Dralle, List Admin. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: safety wire
From: "john francis" <Mrkringles(at)msn.com>
Date: Feb 24, 2014
What size are you using to safety wire turnbuckles? John -------- John Francis Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419221#419221 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: safety wire
Date: Feb 24, 2014
.020 Gary Boothe NX308MB -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of john francis Sent: Monday, February 24, 2014 5:46 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: safety wire --> What size are you using to safety wire turnbuckles? John -------- John Francis Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419221#419221 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <jack(at)bedfordlandings.com>
Subject: safety wire
Date: Feb 24, 2014
Oscar, Are you using a safety wire tool to twist the wires, or are you trying to do it by hand? A safety wire tool makes it pretty easy (except for turnbuckles, which are just a pain in the butt). You can get a decent (Chinese) safety wire tool for $20 or less. A good one will run about $60. Just remember to always put the wire on in such a way that the wire is forced to get tighter for the nut or bolt to loosen. Jack Phillips NX899JP Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of taildrags Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2014 11:24 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: safety wire By the way, and since the list is fairly quiet right now, I'll take a minute to post this. The words "safety wire" should be changed to something else. Every time I have to safety something, I end up with more cuts than a government sequester and "safety wire" is quite unsafe when it comes to its tendency to draw blood. The two worst offenders are the .041 and the .020. The medium-sized wire is fairly well behaved because you can bend it easily and tease it into place with your fingers, but the .041 is a beast to deal with unless you use pliers and the small stuff is like a tiny silver viper, just waiting to get you with its little fang. And just try working it in a blind area without getting bitten. The other thing about safety wire is that I waste a lot of it by re-doing the safetying. I can never remember the right way to safety pairs of things and I have to start over, or I cut the piece of wire just a little too short and have to start over. I've also noticed that I get the dirty eye from A&Ps when I use any of the smaller sizes of wire. They want everything done in .041 unless the hole in the fastener simply will not pass that size of wire, and it's crazy. Why do we even have anything but .041 then? And why try fishing it through all the little screws and jets and things on a Stromberg carb? My guess is that I could take my big old single-speed Craftsman 1/2" drill and chuck a fly cutter in it, then stake it down with a piece of .041 safety wire and try to bore a hole in some kind of gnarly material with the fly cutter off-axis, and that thing could bite and claw and try to torque itself like a fork in spaghetti and a single strand of .041 could hold it. Why in heaven's name we need to put that heavy safety wire on little fasteners and turnbuckles I will never know. -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419209#419209 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Feb 20 to 24, hangar gathering, doing "stuff",
Cha
From: airlion2(at)gmail.com
Date: Feb 24, 2014
Thanks for a. Very good time Mike and my hats off to Kellie and. Judy. They did a .fantastic job of feeding everyone. I plan on coming back next year. Gardiner Sent from my iPad > On Feb 23, 2014, at 8:49 AM, "tools" wrote: > > > THANKS for coming! We actually had a pretty good showing of Pieters whom I thought ALL integrated well with the old woodworking machines crowd. > > The weekend (still underway, just had a newcomer show a few minutes ago) was fantastically productive. The Carrollton gang pledged to come early and stay next year to help (BADLY needed) mentor the Piet crowd with their projects. > > Everyone pitched in a lot to keep things moving. However, it was Kellie and Judy who, for no other than reason being saints, brunted the VAST majority of responsibility for folks being fed WELL and timely. My philosophy is let grown men fend for themselves... probably flawed thinking anyway! Thanks to them! > > Hope to see more folks next year. There's some pics in the "events" section of OWWM.ORG for folks who want to visit vicariously. > > Cheers, > > Tools > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419175#419175 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: safety wire
From: "john francis" <Mrkringles(at)msn.com>
Date: Feb 24, 2014
I did a lot of safety wiring while working on aircraft in the Navy. For a while we were told to not use our pliers because they felt it may nick and weaken the wire. A few months later it was okay to once again use the safety wire pliers. Today I do my safety wiring by hand unless it is a long run. Thanks -------- John Francis Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419225#419225 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Buy Samsung Note 3 $450/BlackBerry Porsche =?ISO-8859-1?Q?P=999982?=/Sony
PS4
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Date: Feb 24, 2014
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Date: Feb 24, 2014
Subject: New E-mail address
From: "Charles N. Campbell" <charlescampbell1924(at)gmail.com>
Just want the list to know that my outlook E-mail program fouled up and the messages were not being shown -- just the addresses. So, I changed to gmail. I didn't really like the outlook any way. So, my new address is: charlescampbell1924(at)gmail.com Chuck ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Vasek's Pietenpol project
From: "Vasek" <bigon2(at)seznam.cz>
Date: Feb 24, 2014
Hello, Recently I decided to build a Pietenpol, but before I start, I would like to ask you and discuss the possibilities I have. I am in the Czech Republic (central europe). I am a young amateur aircraft technician, pilot, producer of historic aircraft propellers and still a student. But mainly, I am a big fan of aviation. At the moment I have an engine (VW 2500 85hp) and metal-tube construction of the fuselage + tail surfaces available. My plan is to build a beautiful airplane, which will look very similar to the original aircraft from twenties/thirties. My friend is a skilled aircraft builder and constructor, who guaranties me that the aircraft will be safe, will fly and will provide me all information concerning the construction. The engine I propose is available for a quite fair price, so I would like to use it. I think that 85hp would be enough? I also have 150cm (60") wooden prop, which might be a bit small, but later I could exchange it. The engine doesn't need any reduction drive. I am light weight, the aircraft will have no electric starter. -10kg What I am also planning to do is to choose a better modern wing profile. Originaly I thought that Clark Y would be the best option, but also ribblet GA30U-613.5 was recommended to me. Could I ask you for help, comments or advices, please? Thank you :) Vaclav Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419246#419246 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: larharris2 Harris <larharris2(at)msn.com>
Subject: Vasek's Pietenpol project
Date: Feb 24, 2014
Vaclav=2C welcome. You will enjoy building the Pietenpol. Advice: DO NOT redesign the wing. Bernard Pietenpol designed the best win g for this airplane. In the past=2C changes have made performance worse. DO NOT use VW engine. RPM must be too high to get HP. Propeller will be too small. Bad performance on takeoff=2C or bad performance while in the air. Follow the plans design as well as you can and you will build a very good p lane. Lorenzo > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Vasek's Pietenpol project > From: bigon2(at)seznam.cz > Date: Mon=2C 24 Feb 2014 09:31:38 -0800 > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > > > Hello=2C > > Recently I decided to build a Pietenpol=2C but before I start=2C I would like to ask you and discuss the possibilities I have. I am in the Czech Rep ublic (central europe). > > I am a young amateur aircraft technician=2C pilot=2C producer of historic aircraft propellers and still a student. But mainly=2C I am a big fan of a viation. > > At the moment I have an engine (VW 2500 85hp) and metal-tube construction of the fuselage + tail surfaces available. My plan is to build a beautiful


February 02, 2014 - February 24, 2014

Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-nf