Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-nn

June 10, 2014 - June 28, 2014



      
      
      > 
      >
      > We'll folks, had the Piet up for its third flight a few days ago about 1/2
      
      > hour, and my rear stick pressure is still there and really heavy. In order
      
      > to fix this condition, last fall I shimmed up the rear of the elevator a 
      > 1/4" and it did absolutely nothing. After reading some riblett posts I 
      > think I need to make the cabanes 11/16 different to get the same 2 deg 
      > angle of incedence, to match the fc10 airfoil. Before I tear it apart, I 
      > am going to have my test pilot fly with 50# worth of ballast with him, 
      > that would equal my 200# and see if I'm just on the front edge of the 
      > weight and balance. My trim don't work either. I was really hoping to be 
      > flying myself by this time, but I don't think it's gonna happen for 
      > awhile. On a positive note, the engine ran great!
      > Open for any input....
      >
      > --------
      > NX321LR
      > Now test flying!!
      > Mitsubishi Powered
      >
      >
      > Read this topic online here:
      >
      > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=424587#424587
      >
      >
      > 
      
      
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________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ray Krause <raykrause(at)frontiernet.net>
Subject: Re: Fully Loaded Piet
Date: Jun 10, 2014
Atta way to go, Gary! Where was that flyin? Sure is a beautiful plane! Ray Krause Sent from my iPad > On Jun 10, 2014, at 4:28 PM, "Gary Boothe" wrote: > > SundayI flew up with a front seat navigator/radio operator about 180 lbs. It was calm and about 70=81=B0. The day quickly heated u p to 108! And the wind picked up to 11 kts =93 gusting to 16. I traded the navigator for my grandson for the flight home. > > There was an absolutely incredible Lancair next to me, and he aced me out o f the max points, but our chapter also competed in the spot landing and flou r bombing, and took 1st place in both eventswe ended up with the mo st points and the $300 purse! Guess we=99re going to purchase another B BQ for eggs and bacon to go along with our pancakes! > > Gary Boothe > NX308MB > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Flying to brodhead 2014.
From: "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Jun 10, 2014
Purely distance. I'm open to anything. I did find a private strip about an hour north of sullivan that would host us. Could check on that, or good for your idea, this really is a plea for what ever fits whomever is coming along. It'll be an adventure any way we look at it. With a chase vehicle, we can get avgas to where ever we overnight, no worries! Tools Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=424681#424681 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Fully Loaded Piet
Date: Jun 10, 2014
Golden West Air Show, Marysville, Ca (MYV) Gary Boothe NX308MB From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ray Krause Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2014 7:03 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fully Loaded Piet Atta way to go, Gary! Where was that flyin? Sure is a beautiful plane! Ray Krause Sent from my iPad On Jun 10, 2014, at 4:28 PM, "Gary Boothe" wrote: SundayI flew up with a front seat navigator/radio operatorabout 180 lbs. It was calm and about 70=81=B0. The day quickly heated up to 108! And the wind picked up to 11 kts =93 gusting to 16. I traded the navigator for my grandson for the flight home. There was an absolutely incredible Lancair next to me, and he aced me out of the max points, but our chapter also competed in the spot landing and flour bombing, and took 1st place in both eventswe ended up with the most points and the $300 purse! Guess we=99re going to purchase another BBQ for eggs and bacon to go along with our pancakes! Gary Boothe NX308MB ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ray Krause <raykrause(at)frontiernet.net>
Subject: Re: Fully Loaded Piet
Date: Jun 10, 2014
Wanted to go, too much family activity! The older one gets, the more the fam ily gathers around to see if the old folks have gone over the edge! Ray Sent from my iPad > On Jun 10, 2014, at 7:52 PM, "Gary Boothe" wrote: > > Golden West Air Show, Marysville, Ca (MYV) > > Gary Boothe > NX308MB > > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-li st-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ray Krause > Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2014 7:03 PM > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fully Loaded Piet > > Atta way to go, Gary! Where was that flyin? Sure is a beautiful plane! > > Ray Krause > > Sent from my iPad > > On Jun 10, 2014, at 4:28 PM, "Gary Boothe" wrote: > > SundayI flew up with a front seat navigator/radio operator about 180 lbs. It was calm and about 70=81=B0. The day quickly heated u p to 108! And the wind picked up to 11 kts =93 gusting to 16. I traded the navigator for my grandson for the flight home. > > There was an absolutely incredible Lancair next to me, and he aced me out o f the max points, but our chapter also competed in the spot landing and flou r bombing, and took 1st place in both eventswe ended up with the mo st points and the $300 purse! Guess we=99re going to purchase another B BQ for eggs and bacon to go along with our pancakes! > > Gary Boothe > NX308MB > > > > > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > http://forums.matronics.com > http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > > 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 10, 2014
Subject: thoghts on buyng wood
From: Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com>
What is the group's Opinion on where to buy spruce? I will need two pieces. both 90 inches long. one 1/2 inch by 3/4 inch. The other 3/8 inch by 1 inch . this piece is e lowest edge of the horizontal stabilizer, It apparenty had some slight wood rot. It was lined up just down stream of the holds. Any Idea on getting the Resorcinol glue to let go. It is still well glued togather. Also. I will be buying New bolts. One of 12 was almost rusted in half. It broke when we put the wrenches on it. Some were a little rusted, but were solid. This plane is 39 years old. -- Blue Skies, Steve D ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Full Moon over Red River Valley in C-GGLU
From: "oakesje" <jill.oakes(at)umanitoba.ca>
Date: Jun 10, 2014
Not sure if its appropriate to share photos of Piet's flying but tonight was a heavenly flight after a day full of wind - For Sale two terrific aircraft...Piet has taken over the hangar ;) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=424685#424685 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/2014_06_10_202245_265.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <jack(at)bedfordlandings.com>
Subject: thoghts on buyng wood
Date: Jun 11, 2014
Try Aircraft Spruce & Specialty, or Wicks Aircraft Supply. Pieces that small can be shipped UPS so the shipping costs won't be too bad. Good luck trying to get Resorcinol to "let go". It won't (if it was glued correctly), even if you immerse it in boiling water for 24 hours (you'll need a really big teapot). Jack Phillips NX899JP Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steven Dortch Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2014 11:32 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: thoghts on buyng wood What is the group's Opinion on where to buy spruce? I will need two pieces. both 90 inches long. one 1/2 inch by 3/4 inch. The other 3/8 inch by 1 inch . this piece is e lowest edge of the horizontal stabilizer, It apparenty had some slight wood rot. It was lined up just down stream of the holds. Any Idea on getting the Resorcinol glue to let go. It is still well glued togather. Also. I will be buying New bolts. One of 12 was almost rusted in half. It broke when we put the wrenches on it. Some were a little rusted, but were solid. This plane is 39 years old. -- Blue Skies, Steve D ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: thoghts on buyng wood
From: "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Jun 11, 2014
I really like Mccormicks in Madison WI. However, you'll be buying a bigger piece... For a repair that small, Doug Fir, or even yellow pine will work fine with a very minimal weight penalty. Given the natural variance of weight, there may not even be ANY penalty. In the pics of the repairs I just displayed a few days ago, I used southern yellow pine (it has similar shrink/swell characteristics, so the joints should not get stressed with seasonal moisture variation) from a pallet. EASILY graded to aircraft grade. I just carve joints apart with chisels. Had no problem getting resorcinol glue joints apart this way. The little nails are hell on the chisels though... Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=424701#424701 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 11, 2014
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: ###Second Flight####
Thanks Chris. Do you recall what size bolt you used in the wing struts to a ttach the jury struts? Do you have any pictures of the attachment? I ask be cause I will be fabricating/attaching my jury struts and am looking for ide as. (I am using aluminum wing struts.)=0A=0A-=0A=0AIf God is your co-pilo t...switch seats. =0AMike Perez =0AKaretaker Aero =0ASTILL Building...=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: ###Second Flight####
From: "Chris Rusch" <rmdinfo(at)rmdbenders.com>
Date: Jun 11, 2014
Im pretty sure I drilled a 1/4" hole thru the wing struts and used an eye clevis to mount the jury struts. then all of the jury struts were bolted together using -3 hardware [quote="speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.n"]Thanks Chris. Do you recall what size bolt you used in the wing struts to attach the jury struts? Do you have any pictures of the attachment? I ask because I will be fabricating/attaching my jury struts and am looking for ideas. (I am using aluminum wing struts.) If God is your co-pilot...switch seats. Mike Perez Karetaker Aero STILL Building... > [b] -------- NX321LR Now test flying!! Mitsubishi Powered Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=424704#424704 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 11, 2014
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: ###Second Flight####
Thanks for your help. If God is your co-pilot...switch seats. Mike Perez Karetaker Aero STILL Building... ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Full Moon over Red River Valley in C-GGLU
From: "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Jun 11, 2014
Agreed... beautiful photo, and great performance on airspeed, if that Johnson indicator is accurate. So... you have two airplanes for sale? What are they? If you happen to have a PA-16 Clipper... ;o) -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=424706#424706 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 11, 2014
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: FYI Aluminum Strut Sizes
=0A=0A-For those that may be interested, Carlson Aircraft sells four diff erent aluminum strut sizes: small, large, heavy duty and jury. Sizes are fo und at the website.=0A=0Ahttp://carlsonaircraft.com/struts.html=0A=0A=0AIf God is your co-pilot...switch seats. =0AMike Perez =0AKaretakerAero=0ASTILL Building... =0A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Subject: Gary Boothe & EAA Chapter win spot landing and flour bombing
competition!
Date: Jun 11, 2014
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Subject: Re: Model A
From: danhelsper(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 07, 2014
My front bearing has a tight sound and feel as well, but so far, after it r uns and warms-up, that seems to loosen up. You would think yours would show more than 160F if that was happening? Dan Helsper Puryear, TN -----Original Message----- From: bender <dude(at)twc.com> Sent: Fri, Jun 6, 2014 3:49 pm Subject: Pietenpol-List: Model A Hey guys.. So I've been trying to get the courage to flay again after the last 2 glide r rides in the Piet.. I did a full power run on the ground today and sure enough after 15 min or so rpm started falling and I saw a bit of smoke and shut it off. it sounds like the front bearing has no oil... nice tight sound and feel. it was at 160 deg and 9lbs of oil pressure.. pulling at 1800 rpm. modern pistons, insert bearings.. same engine builder as Dan. I'm feeling like a A65 may be in order.. bumming me out Jeff faith Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=424451#424451 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Pietenpol Newsletter
From: danhelsper(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 05, 2014
Thanks John! Great job! Loved the photos! Dan Helsper Puryear, TN -----Original Message----- From: John Hofmann <jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc.com> Sent: Thu, Jun 5, 2014 2:11 pm Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol Newsletter Hello Good People! While you await your printed copy, here is the latest pdf file to enjoy. My apologies on being even more tardy. I have a useless nephew who took his dr ug addiction to the next level and decided to become a quadriplegic. Given his immediate family shares the same moral fiber, my wife and I have had to arr ange for his short term and long term care over the past couple of months. Lots of distractions. Now back to Pietenpols. -john- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Gary Boothe & EAA Chapter win spot landing and flour
bombing competition!
Date: Jun 11, 2014
Thanks, Mike! I will freely admit that flying in windy conditions in this little plane has caused me much apprehension. I delayed my departure, with rest of my chapter, hoping the wind would die down. After lunch and a couple hours, I decided that I was not giving myself, or my Piet, the credit we deserved, and went for it! My grandson rode with me, and my daughter, Leigh Ann, flew back with our chapter president in his RV-6. She enjoyed it as much as the picture shows! Gary From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]" Date: June 11, 2014 at 9:38:02 AM PDT Subject: Pietenpol-List: Gary Boothe & EAA Chapter win spot landing and flour bombing competition! What great photos and such a great report Gary of your flight to the Golden West fly-in! I=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2ll bet your grandson was bragging to all his friends about flying in an open cockpit airplane with you after he checked in with all his buddies after your flight home with him. Great memories you=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2re making. You=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2re getting some good experiences in landing in more windy conditions slowly but surely. Excellent. It always perplexes and amazes me how many YouTube videos I see of homebuilt first flights (particularly Pietenpols for some odd reason too) where the wind is howling in the video camera microphone and the trees are swaying and twisting. You=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2re doing it the smart way Gary! Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Checkride!!
From: "aabreu" <andre_abreu_2000(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Jun 11, 2014
Nice Job!! When it was time to do my checkride, we took 6186L from KTDZ down to Red Stewart. Martha was glad to give us our checkrides in our Piet!! I'll never forget the day we spent with Martha. http://tinyurl.com/lcjn28t Happy Landings, Andy Abreu Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=424713#424713 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Boatright, Jeffrey" <jeffboatright(at)emory.edu>
Subject: Re: Gary Boothe & EAA Chapter win spot landing and flour
bombing competition!
Date: Jun 11, 2014
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Subject: Re: Checkride!!
From: "john francis" <Mrkringles(at)msn.com>
Date: Jun 11, 2014
Andy, yes she mentioned that to me. -------- John Francis Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=424720#424720 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Checkride!!
From: "aabreu" <andre_abreu_2000(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Jun 11, 2014
They have an airshow every year. Been meaning to get the Piet down for one of them. Maybe this will be the year 6186L makes it back to 40I. If you are around, maybe we can go for a ride. Andy Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=424721#424721 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Test
From: danhelsper(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 11, 2014
Testing...is this showing up? I can't see my own posts..... ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Test
From: "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Jun 11, 2014
Yes. -------- Semper Fi, Terry Hand Athens, GA USMC, USMCR, ATP BVD DVD PDQ BBQ Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=424726#424726 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 11, 2014
From: Charles Burkholder <born2fly(at)abcmailbox.net>
Subject: Re: Test
got it On 6/11/2014 5:39 PM, danhelsper(at)aol.com wrote: > Testing...is this showing up? I can't see my own posts..... > * > > > * > > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com> > -- Charles Burkholder Visit my blog @ http://missionmechfund.blogspot.ca/ ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Test
From: Brian Kenney <brian.kenney(at)live.ca>
Date: Jun 11, 2014
I got it Sent from my iPad > On Jun 11, 2014, at 6:51 PM, "Charles Burkholder" wrote: > > got it >> On 6/11/2014 5:39 PM, danhelsper(at)aol.com wrote: >> Testing...is this showing up? I can't see my own posts..... >> >> >> >> No virus found in this message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> 06/11/14 >> > > -- > Charles Burkholder > Visit my blog @ http://missionmechfund.blogspot.ca/ > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Test
From: danhelsper(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 11, 2014
Three affirmative responses....why can't I see it? Frustration.... -----Original Message----- From: Brian Kenney <brian.kenney(at)live.ca> Sent: Wed, Jun 11, 2014 5:53 pm Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Test I got it Sent from my iPad On Jun 11, 2014, at 6:51 PM, "Charles Burkholder" wrote: got it On 6/11/2014 5:39 PM, danhelsper(at)aol.com wrote: Testing...is this showing up? I can't see my own posts..... No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 06/11/14 -- Charles Burkholder Visit my blog @ http://missionmechfund.blogspot.ca/ 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Can't see my own posts...
From: danhelsper(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 11, 2014
Just mentioned to my wife.....my frustrations with this predicament... can' t see my own posts....saying to her.... "and I am one of the most important people on this list".......(it takes her a few moments to respond)...."Ya think?' ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Subject: Can't see my own posts...
Date: Jun 11, 2014
Just mentioned to my wife.....my frustrations with this predicament... can' t see my own posts....saying to her.... "and I am one of the most important people on this list".......(it takes her a few moments to respond)...."Ya think?' Dan-you are RIGHT, you are one of the most important people on this list !!!!! Your wife is also the world's second luckiest woman. Mike C. Ohio ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Can't see my own posts...
Date: Jun 11, 2014
I did not receive Dan's post, and a couple others today.also, a couple that showed up blank.dang interwebs. Gary Boothe NX308MB From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC] Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2014 4:18 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Can't see my own posts... Just mentioned to my wife.....my frustrations with this predicament... can't see my own posts....saying to her.... "and I am one of the most important people on this list".......(it takes her a few moments to respond)...."Ya think?' Dan-you are RIGHT, you are one of the most important people on this list !!!!! Your wife is also the world's second luckiest woman. Mike C. Ohio ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Test
From: ricekrgr(at)yahoo.com
Date: Jun 11, 2014
I received yours while many do not come through and my friend Tools is one I do not recieve. > On Jun 11, 2014, at 5:47 PM, "jarheadpilot82" wrote: > > > Yes. > > -------- > Semper Fi, > > Terry Hand > Athens, GA > > USMC, USMCR, ATP > BVD DVD PDQ BBQ > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=424726#424726 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Test
From: "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Jun 11, 2014
I carry a flip phone... I post and read here exclusively via the web based whatever it is. I can't see many posts it seems and I'm pretty sure those posts are posted via smart phone interfaces. It's a weird system. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=424735#424735 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 11, 2014
Subject: stacking planes
From: Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com>
Guys, as I get my Pietenpol Air Camper closer to flight I am faced with the dilemma of too many plane for one hangar. My 40X32 hangar (minus 7 ft in each front corner for folding doors) is too small to park both the old Vtail Bonanza there and the Piet in the normal way. I have done a lot of math. But this looks like a real solution. please look at these photos and tell me if parking the Pietenpol this way will damage the engine A65 Contenental or the plane? Of course I may have to drain fuel to do this. Will the engine oil be a problem? Blue Skies, Steve D. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jeff Martin <jammerrv8(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: stacking planes
Date: Jun 12, 2014
I would be more concerned with the landing gear Jeff Martin > On Jun 11, 2014, at 11:42 PM, Steven Dortch wr ote: > > Guys, as I get my Pietenpol Air Camper closer to flight I am faced with th e dilemma of too many plane for one hangar. My 40X32 hangar (minus 7 ft in e ach front corner for folding doors) is too small to park both the old Vtail B onanza there and the Piet in the normal way. > > I have done a lot of math. But this looks like a real solution. please lo ok at these photos and tell me if parking the Pietenpol this way will damage the engine A65 Contenental or the plane? Of course I may have to drain fuel to do this. Will the engine oil be a problem? > > Blue Skies, > Steve D. > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 12, 2014
From: Charles Burkholder <born2fly(at)abcmailbox.net>
Subject: Re: stacking planes
Um, I will take 3 of those Cubs please. Nobody will miss them. LOL Charles Burkholder On 6/11/2014 10:42 PM, Steven Dortch wrote: > > Guys, as I get my Pietenpol Air Camper closer to flight I am faced > with the dilemma of too many plane for one hangar. My 40X32 hangar > (minus 7 ft in each front corner for folding doors) is too small to > park both the old Vtail Bonanza there and the Piet in the normal way. > > I have done a lot of math. But this looks like a real solution. please > look at these photos and tell me if parking the Pietenpol this way > will damage the engine A65 Contenental or the plane? Of course I may > have to drain fuel to do this. Will the engine oil be a problem? > > Blue Skies, > > Steve D. > > > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com> > -- Charles Burkholder Visit my blog @ http://missionmechfund.blogspot.ca/ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 12, 2014
From: Douwe Blumberg <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: builder questions
Welcome to the list John, just got back from a trip and havne't ead all the recent posts, so I'm not sure what responses you've gotten so far. Dick Navratil has a Rotec on his Piet and it flies great, as do many of the Corvair powered ones, so both options have proved successful. I'm not personally familiar with aircraft spruce's kits, but they've been discussed a lot on the list and can be found in the archives, as can discussions about all your questions. >From the discussions I"v seen, they are FAIRLY complete, but seem to be missing certain pieces, but I think the quality seems good. Ken Bickers is building a Piet in your area and would be a good resource of knowledge. Reaching out to him would be a wise step. Fuselage length is a personal choice. most guys use and like the longer fuselage because there's more room in the cockpits. Unless you're pretty small, I'd vote for the longer fuse. Mine is the short fuselage, I'm 5'9" and 150lbs and the pit feels none too large, especially in winter clothes. Good luck and stay plugged in here! Douwe ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 12, 2014
From: Douwe Blumberg <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: flying north
Last year I flew from northern KY to Brodhead making stops in Kokomo IN and Lowell Airfield in Illinois. Not sure where Kokomo is along your route, but it was a FABULOUS grass strip with fuel and a nice lounge and super friendly/welcoming ownership. I'd love to hook up with some of you guys if we could rendezvous somewhere not too far out of anybody's way. Douwe ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Boatright, Jeffrey" <jeffboatright(at)emory.edu>
Subject: Re: flying north
Date: Jun 12, 2014
Hi Douwe, Do you recall which Kokomo airport? Theres OKK, Hartman, Indian Hills, Glenndale, etc. Thanks, Jeff -- Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD, FARVO Professor of Ophthalmology Emory University School of Medicine On 6/12/14, 9:59 AM, "Douwe Blumberg" wrote: > > >Last year I flew from northern KY to Brodhead making stops in Kokomo IN >and Lowell Airfield in Illinois. > >Not sure where Kokomo is along your route, but it was a FABULOUS grass >strip with fuel and a nice lounge and super friendly/welcoming ownership. > >I'd love to hook up with some of you guys if we could rendezvous >somewhere not too far out of anybody's way. > >Douwe > > ________________________________ This e-mail message (including any attachments) is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this message (including any attachments) is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please contact the sender by reply e-mail message and destroy all copies of the original message (including attachments). ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Flying to brodhead 2014.
From: "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Jun 12, 2014
Jeff, If Moontown is your first stop, we could meet up at our first stop, m54, Lebanon. They've got a grass runway, been there a few times. We had 3 legs to Sullivan, didn't get started until noon or so and had a long sit enroute. You'd have four to get that far north... Still not hung up on Sullivan, just havn't scoured the sectional for a nearby strip that's grass. Maybe Shawnee (1i3)? Not sure where Drake is... Douwe, The fields you mention are a bit out of our way. Looks like you're skirting Indianapolis to the north, if you do the same to the south, our paths get pretty close. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=424750#424750 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 12, 2014
From: shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: stacking planes
You may get a little oil out of the front seal but as long as it is not sit ting on the crank it should be fine.- Put some kind of fixture on the eng ine mount to sit it up like that.- You will probably want to let it sit l evel for an hour or so to get the oil back where it is supposed to be.=0A =0AShad =0A=0A=0AOn Thursday, June 12, 2014 7:33 AM, Charles Burkholder wrote:=0A =0A=0A=0AUm, I will take 3 of those Cubs please. Nobody will miss them. LOL=0ACharles Burkholder=0A=0AOn 6/11/2014 1 0:42 PM, Steven Dortch wrote:=0A =0A =0A>Guys, as I get my Pietenpol Air Ca mper closer to flight I am faced with the dilemma of too many plane for one hangar. My 40X32 hangar (minus 7 ft in each front corner for folding doors ) is too small to park both the old Vtail Bonanza there and the Piet in the normal way. =0A>- =0A>I have done a lot of math. But this looks like a real solution. -please look at these photos and tell me if parking the P ietenpol this way will damage the engine A65 Contenental or the plane? Of c ourse I may have to drain fuel to do this. Will the engine oil be a problem ? =0A>- =0A>Blue Skies, =0A>Steve D. =0A> =0A> =0A>=0A>No virus found in this message.=0A>Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com/=0A>06/11/14 =0A =0A-- =0ACharles Burkholder=0AVisit my blog @ http://missionmechfund.blogsp ==================== ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Boatright, Jeffrey" <jeffboatright(at)emory.edu>
Subject: Re: Flying to brodhead 2014.
Date: Jun 12, 2014
Hi Tools, M54 is one of two options Id been planning for my second stop I really prefer grass for anything other than early morning or evening landings as my mains are simple motorcycle wheels from some unknown 60s bike, probably with much less lateral strength than what is needed. Another option is that I could make Lafayette my first stop. Its about 1.5 hours from 2GA9, which would be a decent opening to the journey. What time do you hope to depart? If its super early, maybe Id fly up the evening before or some such. After work, Ill send you a complete list of enroute options that Ive been pondering and get your take on them. This is coming together nicely. Jeff -- Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD, FARVO Professor of Ophthalmology Emory University School of Medicine On 6/12/14, 10:53 AM, "tools" wrote: > >Jeff, > >If Moontown is your first stop, we could meet up at our first stop, m54, >Lebanon. They've got a grass runway, been there a few times. > >We had 3 legs to Sullivan, didn't get started until noon or so and had a >long sit enroute. You'd have four to get that far north... > >Still not hung up on Sullivan, just havn't scoured the sectional for a >nearby strip that's grass. Maybe Shawnee (1i3)? Not sure where Drake >is... > >Douwe, > >The fields you mention are a bit out of our way. Looks like you're >skirting Indianapolis to the north, if you do the same to the south, our >paths get pretty close. > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=424750#424750 > > ________________________________ This e-mail message (including any attachments) is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this message (including any attachments) is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please contact the sender by reply e-mail message and destroy all copies of the original message (including attachments). ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 12, 2014
From: Jim Boyer <boyerjrb(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: stacking planes
Hi Steve, This is the way airplanes were stacked for the winter in our hangar in South Dakota, but I think the oil and gas were drained. Jim B. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Hinge Tail Feathers
From: "namrednos" <namrednos(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Jun 12, 2014
I am about to start making my tail hinges. On the plans, 13Ga. material is called out with #8 screws. In the Flying Manual 16Ga. material is called out with 3/16" hex bolts (close to #10). Does any one have a comment. I am going to try the Bill Church method to make hinge plates without welding. Scott -------- Scott Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=424759#424759 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "G Hansen" <ghans@cable-lynx.net>
Subject: Re: stacking planes
Date: Jun 12, 2014
Back in the early fifties I remember seeing a single row of Aeronca Champions stacked nose down along a hangar wall with each propeller resting in an old tire on the floor. The tailwheels were up against the hangar wall and the main wheels were not chocked. I don=99t know whether the fuel was drained, but am pretty sure the oil was still in the tank. I didn=99t know it at the time, but later (in 1953) one of those Champs became the first airplane I ever owned. Stacking was an effective way to free up floor space and still could be, provided the ceiling is high enough. Basically, stacking is for storage; it probably isn=99t practical for airplanes in frequent use. Cheers, Graham Hansen (Alberta, Canada) From: shad bell Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2014 9:12 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: stacking planes You may get a little oil out of the front seal but as long as it is not sitting on the crank it should be fine. Put some kind of fixture on the engine mount to sit it up like that. You will probably want to let it sit level for an hour or so to get the oil back where it is supposed to be. Shad On Thursday, June 12, 2014 7:33 AM, Charles Burkholder wrote: Um, I will take 3 of those Cubs please. Nobody will miss them. LOL Charles Burkholder On 6/11/2014 10:42 PM, Steven Dortch wrote: Guys, as I get my Pietenpol Air Camper closer to flight I am faced with the dilemma of too many plane for one hangar. My 40X32 hangar (minus 7 ft in each front corner for folding doors) is too small to park both the old Vtail Bonanza there and the Piet in the normal way. I have done a lot of math. But this looks like a real solution. please look at these photos and tell me if parking the Pietenpol this way will damage the engine A65 Contenental or the plane? Of course I may have to drain fuel to do this. Will the engine oil be a problem? Blue Skies, Steve D. No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com/ 06/11/14 -- Charles Burkholder Visit my blog @ http://missionmechfund.blogspot.ca/ http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect">http://forums.matronics--> http://www.matronics.com/contribution============ No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 06/11/14 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 12, 2014
From: John Greenlee <jmgreenlee(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Fw: Varnish
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fw: Varnish
From: Scott Knowlton <flyingscott_k(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Jun 12, 2014
I had a similar occurrence with Epifanes. The supplier suggested pouring it through a fine paint filter. The "bears" were all caught and the product w as returned to its clear, usable state. Good luck. Epifanes is great stuff . Scott K Burlington Sent from my iPhone > On Jun 12, 2014, at 1:58 PM, "John Greenlee" wr ote: > > > > From: John Greenlee <jmgreenlee(at)sbcglobal.net>; > To: ; > Subject: Varnish > Sent: Thu, Jun 12, 2014 5:48:51 PM > > Help! I've got gummy bears or jelly like stuff suspended in my Epifanes (a high grade boat varnish). How do I reconstitute this stuff? > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Flying to brodhead 2014.
From: "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Jun 12, 2014
Oh even better if you can do Lafayette. Even better than that, I'll get the coordinates of a grass strip of a friend's about 10 mi north of there, it's only 10 minutes from my place, we can overnight you easily... although don't need a super early departure, just might make the next day a bit easier. Should be able to get your plane indoors there, we'll get some gas from Lafayette to fuel up. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=424764#424764 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Parking at Air Venture.
From: "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Jun 12, 2014
I was contacted by the Hatz guys who have their fly in colocated with ours at Brodhead. Kevin Conner (I hope I have his name right) has been working with the homebuilt coordinator at EAA for a couple years and finally has a "vintage homebuilt" sort of area set up. An area for planes like the Hatz, Fly Baby's, Tailwinds, and of course the grand puba of vintage homebuilts, Piets! It's a great idea. He has invited as many Piets that want to park there, to park there. There's also a little "show area" where we've been invited to park a plane, so hopefully one of the show planes come along. He's putting together an email of exactly what the arrangement is, that I'll repost as soon as I get it. If we can get some posters made, we'll display them there, if not, I'll just borrow the ones from the Piet hangar at Pioneer. Kevin will be at Brodhead and would like to address the entire group about what he has going, so all the finer details can be acquired then (like where to actually taxi once you land). Not a "sign up" sort of thing (the parking). Who ever shows, shows. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=424765#424765 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Flying to brodhead 2014.
From: "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Jun 12, 2014
Oh, and Wendel's place can host as many as come along. Can probably get two, maybe three in his hangar. He might be flying up as well... he's got a REALLY nice RV8, he'll probably take off directly for KOSH so would likely be leaving well after us. If anyone is in the mood to try landing at our place, can get quite a few under cover. Probably worth landing at Wendel's, then coming over to look over the field in person and then deciding for yourself. It's quite a climb after landing... However a very easy approach with no obstacles. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=424778#424778 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Flying to brodhead 2014.
From: "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Jun 12, 2014
My place: The coords are: 34.833250, 085.325110 The best field to fly into is either Wilson Field 34.869454, 085.200019i Or Wendell's place: 34.872324, 085.250305 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=424779#424779 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chris" <catdesigns(at)att.net>
Subject: Fw: Varnish
Date: Jun 12, 2014
John I believe it is partially cured varnish that is in the can. This is quite common with varnish. It will react with the air that gets into the can when you open and closed multiple times. Next time pore what you need into another container so you can keep the can closed. Also try to remove the air by replacing it with something else. Some people put a small piece of plastic on the surface or squirt a shot of propane into the can to remove the air. Other things work too. Some people have had luck straining the clumps out while others think it is no longer good for a quality finish because it will leave tinny lumps. There is no way to reconstitute it that I know of. I think it would be ok if you are covering that part of the plane but I'd buy a new can if it was the instrument panel. Chris T. Sacramento, Ca Westcoastpiet.com From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Greenlee Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2014 10:53 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fw: Varnish _____ From: John Greenlee <jmgreenlee(at)sbcglobal.net >; >; Subject: Varnish Sent: Thu, Jun 12, 2014 5:48:51 PM Help! I've got gummy bears or jelly like stuff suspended in my Epifanes (a high grade boat varnish). How do I reconstitute this stuff? ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Material for wing ribs
From: Claude Corbett <isablcorky(at)aol.com>
Date: Jun 12, 2014
Pieters, Last spring I wrote this group that I was beginning to build some sets of wi ng ribs. Many events have prevented my completing this project. I've tried t o make a few but I'm experiencing frustration and impatience which results i n inferior workmanship. Not that I think I'm a craftsman but I would not lik e to leave some products less than I would like. So, the purpose of this let ter is to offer some poor Piet builder my inventory of materials I purchased for this project. 6 pcs Douglas.Fir from Puget Sound Area, 6ftx6 in kiln dried, close vertical grain, no pitch pockets. The very finest I could acquire. 2 4x8 sheets boa t plywood for gussets and. 1 sheet of plywood for 1/8purpose. T 88 And nails from Wicks. 42.77 Lumber and plywood from Eden-saw. 408.80 451.5 7 No more no less. FOB Shreveport, La About half the lumber has been milled down to 1/4x3/8 x 5 ft for caps trip A few gussets cutout. Anyone interested please contact me direct on internet or 318 455 7435 I guarantee a real bargain Sent my iPad

      
      
      
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From: "Boatright, Jeffrey" <jeffboatright(at)emory.edu>
Date: Jun 13, 2014
Subject: FW: ForeFlight: 2GA9 9A5 M54 I91 C16 C77 C37
What do you guys think of this plan? I am completely open to any alternativ e suggestions about airports vaguely near this flight path and any local pr oblems you may know of that may arise from this plan. The fields chosen all have turf runways (except 9A1, but Tools has given us alternative grass st rips nearby). Grass is not absolutely necessary, but it=92s nice. I don=92t know much else about these airports except I=92ve read that Frasca Field ( C16) and Poplar Grove (C77) are neat places. The cities/large towns near this path are roughly: Snellville GA (2GA9), La fayette GA /Chattanooga (9A1), Lebanon TN (M54), Evansville/Boonville IN (I 91), Urbana IL (C16), Poplar Grove IL (C77), Brodhead WI (C37). [cid:9FD7780B-4D8D-4750-B010-5DD0D7D9800C] =97=97=97=97=97=97=97=97=97=97=97=97=97=97=97=97=97=97=97=97=97=97=97=97=97 =97=97=97=97 Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD, FARVO Professor of Ophthalmology Emory University School of Medicine Sent from an iPad with a spelling problem ________________________________ This e-mail message (including any attachments) is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this message (including any attachments) is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please contact the sender by reply e-mail message and destroy all copies of the original message (including attachments). ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: stacking planes
From: "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Jun 12, 2014
Pretty cool! It would definitely get the attention of passers-by! If you have a Continental, just looking at the photos and the angle of the engine, I don't see how much of the oil would get out of the kidney tank into the crankcase, and even if it did, I don't see how it would be up into the main seal. Fuel would definitely be a problem with my airplane if there was more than about 3/4 tank in it. It seems like it would be a cinch to hoist the tail from a pulley, and tying off the rope would hold the airplane securely in that position. My airplane starts to want to go onto its nose once I raise the tail much past straight and level, so I would sure want a cushion or rubber tire right where the prop was going to touch the floor. Now that I see that, I'm thinking I may just try it out this winter! -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=424785#424785 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: ForeFlight: 2GA9 9A5 M54 I91 C16 C77 C37
From: "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Jun 13, 2014
Looks good to me. Can we get into c16 (near Champagne IL) without a transponder? I ain't got one... Also don't really have a radio (might have it installed by then, just don't know), so Owensboro class D is a very slight glitch. Assuming we're planning an overnight somewhere. c16 is a reasonable choice and is easy access to interstates for the chase vehicle. Never been to any of them, which makes it more fun! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=424790#424790 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: ForeFlight: 2GA9 9A5 M54 I91 C16 C77 C37
From: "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Jun 13, 2014
And it looks like we'll need gas in Boonville works alright with the interstate system as well. Can't see a reason not to go this way! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=424791#424791 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Boatright, Jeffrey" <jeffboatright(at)emory.edu>
Subject: Re: ForeFlight: 2GA9 9A5 M54 I91 C16 C77 C37
Date: Jun 13, 2014
Ive also come across some more public use airports with grass/turf runways that are near the current path. These may provide useful alternates or we may find that they make better primaries than what we have so far. I dont have those in front of me right now, but will send later today as time allows. If anyone has suggestions about the planning on this trip, please let us know. Im just noodling on Foreflight, so none of this is written in stone and none of it is based on personal recommendations. Thanks, Jeff On 6/13/14, 7:59 AM, "tools" wrote: > >And it looks like we'll need gas in Boonville works alright with the >interstate system as well. > >Can't see a reason not to go this way! > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=424791#424791 > > ________________________________ This e-mail message (including any attachments) is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this message (including any attachments) is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please contact the sender by reply e-mail message and destroy all copies of the original message (including attachments). ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Kokomo
From: Douwe <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Date: Jun 13, 2014
Glenndale Sent from my iPhone On Jun 13, 2014, at 2:02 AM, Pietenpol-List Digest Server wrote: > * > > ================================================= > Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive > ================================================= > > Today's complete Pietenpol-List Digest can also be found in either of the > two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted > in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes > and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version > of the Pietenpol-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor > such as Notepad or with a web browser. > > HTML Version: > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 14-06-12&Archive=Pietenpol > > Text Version: > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 14-06-12&Archive=Pietenpol > > > =============================================== > EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive > =============================================== > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > Pietenpol-List Digest Archive > --- > Total Messages Posted Thu 06/12/14: 21 > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > > Today's Message Index: > ---------------------- > > 1. 03:57 AM - Re: stacking planes (Jeff Martin) > 2. 04:27 AM - Re: stacking planes (Charles Burkholder) > 3. 06:48 AM - builder questions (Douwe Blumberg) > 4. 07:00 AM - flying north (Douwe Blumberg) > 5. 07:13 AM - Re: flying north (Boatright, Jeffrey) > 6. 07:53 AM - Re: Flying to brodhead 2014. (tools) > 7. 08:12 AM - Re: stacking planes (shad bell) > 8. 08:16 AM - Re: Re: Flying to brodhead 2014. (Boatright, Jeffrey) > 9. 08:25 AM - Re: stacking planes (Jim Boyer) > 10. 10:43 AM - Hinge Tail Feathers (namrednos) > 11. 10:45 AM - Re: stacking planes (G Hansen) > 12. 10:56 AM - Fw: Varnish (John Greenlee) > 13. 11:21 AM - Re: Fw: Varnish (Scott Knowlton) > 14. 11:40 AM - Re: Flying to brodhead 2014. (tools) > 15. 11:48 AM - Parking at Air Venture. (tools) > 16. 06:33 PM - Re: Flying to brodhead 2014. (tools) > 17. 06:38 PM - Re: Flying to brodhead 2014. (tools) > 18. 07:23 PM - Re: Fw: Varnish (Chris) > 19. 08:04 PM - Material for wing ribs (Claude Corbett) > 20. 08:36 PM - FW: ForeFlight: 2GA9 9A5 M54 I91 C16 C77 C37 (Boatright, Jeffrey) > 21. 09:12 PM - Re: stacking planes (taildrags) > > > > ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ > > > From: Jeff Martin <jammerrv8(at)aol.com> > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: stacking planes > > I would be more concerned with the landing gear > > Jeff Martin > >> On Jun 11, 2014, at 11:42 PM, Steven Dortch wr > ote: >> >> Guys, as I get my Pietenpol Air Camper closer to flight I am faced with th > e dilemma of too many plane for one hangar. My 40X32 hangar (minus 7 ft in e > ach front corner for folding doors) is too small to park both the old Vtail B > onanza there and the Piet in the normal way. >> >> I have done a lot of math. But this looks like a real solution. please lo > ok at these photos and tell me if parking the Pietenpol this way will damage > the engine A65 Contenental or the plane? Of course I may have to drain fuel > to do this. Will the engine oil be a problem? >> >> Blue Skies, >> Steve D. >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ > > > From: Charles Burkholder <born2fly(at)abcmailbox.net> > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: stacking planes > > Um, I will take 3 of those Cubs please. Nobody will miss them. LOL > Charles Burkholder > On 6/11/2014 10:42 PM, Steven Dortch wrote: >> >> Guys, as I get my Pietenpol Air Camper closer to flight I am faced >> with the dilemma of too many plane for one hangar. My 40X32 hangar >> (minus 7 ft in each front corner for folding doors) is too small to >> park both the old Vtail Bonanza there and the Piet in the normal way. >> >> I have done a lot of math. But this looks like a real solution. please >> look at these photos and tell me if parking the Pietenpol this way >> will damage the engine A65 Contenental or the plane? Of course I may >> have to drain fuel to do this. Will the engine oil be a problem? >> >> Blue Skies, >> >> Steve D. >> >> >> No virus found in this message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com> >> > > -- > Charles Burkholder > Visit my blog @ http://missionmechfund.blogspot.ca/ > > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ > > > From: Douwe Blumberg <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> > Subject: Pietenpol-List: builder questions > > > Welcome to the list John, > > just got back from a trip and havne't ead all the recent posts, so I'm not sure > what responses you've gotten so far. > > Dick Navratil has a Rotec on his Piet and it flies great, as do many of the Corvair > powered ones, so both options have proved successful. > > I'm not personally familiar with aircraft spruce's kits, but they've been discussed > a lot on the list and can be found in the archives, as can discussions about > all your questions. > >> From the discussions I"v seen, they are FAIRLY complete, but seem to be missing > certain pieces, but I think the quality seems good. > > Ken Bickers is building a Piet in your area and would be a good resource of knowledge. > Reaching out to him would be a wise step. > > Fuselage length is a personal choice. most guys use and like the longer fuselage > because there's more room in the cockpits. Unless you're pretty small, I'd > vote for the longer fuse. Mine is the short fuselage, I'm 5'9" and 150lbs and > the pit feels none too large, especially in winter clothes. > > Good luck and stay plugged in here! > > Douwe > > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ > > > From: Douwe Blumberg <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> > Subject: Pietenpol-List: flying north > > > Last year I flew from northern KY to Brodhead making stops in Kokomo IN and Lowell > Airfield in Illinois. > > Not sure where Kokomo is along your route, but it was a FABULOUS grass strip with > fuel and a nice lounge and super friendly/welcoming ownership. > > I'd love to hook up with some of you guys if we could rendezvous somewhere not > too far out of anybody's way. > > Douwe > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ > > > From: "Boatright, Jeffrey" <jeffboatright(at)emory.edu> > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: flying north > > > Hi Douwe, > > Do you recall which Kokomo airport? Theres OKK, Hartman, Indian Hills, > Glenndale, etc. > > Thanks, > > Jeff > > -- > > Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD, FARVO > Professor of Ophthalmology > Emory University School of Medicine > > > On 6/12/14, 9:59 AM, "Douwe Blumberg" wrote: > >> >> >> Last year I flew from northern KY to Brodhead making stops in Kokomo IN >> and Lowell Airfield in Illinois. >> >> Not sure where Kokomo is along your route, but it was a FABULOUS grass >> strip with fuel and a nice lounge and super friendly/welcoming ownership. >> >> I'd love to hook up with some of you guys if we could rendezvous >> somewhere not too far out of anybody's way. >> >> Douwe >> >> > > > ________________________________ > > This e-mail message (including any attachments) is for the sole use of > the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged > information. If the reader of this message is not the intended > recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution > or copying of this message (including any attachments) is strictly > prohibited. > > If you have received this message in error, please contact > the sender by reply e-mail message and destroy all copies of the > original message (including attachments). > > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ > > > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Flying to brodhead 2014. > From: "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com> > > > Jeff, > > If Moontown is your first stop, we could meet up at our first stop, m54, Lebanon. > They've got a grass runway, been there a few times. > > We had 3 legs to Sullivan, didn't get started until noon or so and had a long sit > enroute. You'd have four to get that far north... > > Still not hung up on Sullivan, just havn't scoured the sectional for a nearby strip > that's grass. Maybe Shawnee (1i3)? Not sure where Drake is... > > Douwe, > > The fields you mention are a bit out of our way. Looks like you're skirting Indianapolis > to the north, if you do the same to the south, our paths get pretty > close. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=424750#424750 > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ > > > From: shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com> > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: stacking planes > > You may get a little oil out of the front seal but as long as it is not sit > ting on the crank it should be fine.- Put some kind of fixture on the eng > ine mount to sit it up like that.- You will probably want to let it sit l > evel for an hour or so to get the oil back where it is supposed to be.=0A > =0AShad =0A=0A=0AOn Thursday, June 12, 2014 7:33 AM, Charles Burkholder rn2fly(at)abcmailbox.net> wrote:=0A =0A=0A=0AUm, I will take 3 of those Cubs > please. Nobody will miss them. LOL=0ACharles Burkholder=0A=0AOn 6/11/2014 1 > 0:42 PM, Steven Dortch wrote:=0A =0A =0A>Guys, as I get my Pietenpol Air Ca > mper closer to flight I am faced with the dilemma of too many plane for one > hangar. My 40X32 hangar (minus 7 ft in each front corner for folding doors > ) is too small to park both the old Vtail Bonanza there and the Piet in the > normal way. =0A>- =0A>I have done a lot of math. But this looks like a > real solution. -please look at these photos and tell me if parking the P > ietenpol this way will damage the engine A65 Contenental or the plane? Of c > ourse I may have to drain fuel to do this. Will the engine oil be a problem > ? =0A>- =0A>Blue Skies, =0A>Steve D. =0A> =0A> =0A>=0A>No virus found > in this message.=0A>Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com/=0A>06/11/14 =0A > =0A-- =0ACharles Burkholder=0AVisit my blog @ http://missionmechfund.blogsp > ==================== > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ > > > From: "Boatright, Jeffrey" <jeffboatright(at)emory.edu> > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Flying to brodhead 2014. > > > Hi Tools, > > M54 is one of two options Id been planning for my second stop I really > prefer grass for anything other than early morning or evening landings as > my mains are simple motorcycle wheels from some unknown 60s bike, probably > with much less lateral strength than what is needed. > > Another option is that I could make Lafayette my first stop. Its about > 1.5 hours from 2GA9, which would be a decent opening to the journey. What > time do you hope to depart? If its super early, maybe Id fly up the > evening before or some such. > > After work, Ill send you a complete list of enroute options that Ive > been pondering and get your take on them. > > This is coming together nicely. > > Jeff > -- > > Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD, FARVO > Professor of Ophthalmology > Emory University School of Medicine > > > On 6/12/14, 10:53 AM, "tools" wrote: > >> >> Jeff, >> >> If Moontown is your first stop, we could meet up at our first stop, m54, >> Lebanon. They've got a grass runway, been there a few times. >> >> We had 3 legs to Sullivan, didn't get started until noon or so and had a >> long sit enroute. You'd have four to get that far north... >> >> Still not hung up on Sullivan, just havn't scoured the sectional for a >> nearby strip that's grass. Maybe Shawnee (1i3)? Not sure where Drake >> is... >> >> Douwe, >> >> The fields you mention are a bit out of our way. Looks like you're >> skirting Indianapolis to the north, if you do the same to the south, our >> paths get pretty close. >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=424750#424750 >> >> > > > ________________________________ > > This e-mail message (including any attachments) is for the sole use of > the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged > information. If the reader of this message is not the intended > recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution > or copying of this message (including any attachments) is strictly > prohibited. > > If you have received this message in error, please contact > the sender by reply e-mail message and destroy all copies of the > original message (including attachments). > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ > > > From: Jim Boyer <boyerjrb(at)comcast.net> > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: stacking planes > > Hi Steve, > This is the way airplanes were stacked for the winter in our hangar in South Dakota, > but I think the oil and gas were drained. > Jim B. > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ > > > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Hinge Tail Feathers > From: "namrednos" <namrednos(at)yahoo.com> > > > I am about to start making my tail hinges. On the plans, 13Ga. material is called > out with #8 screws. In the Flying Manual 16Ga. material is called out with > 3/16" hex bolts (close to #10). > > Does any one have a comment. > > I am going to try the Bill Church method to make hinge plates without welding. > > Scott > > -------- > Scott > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=424759#424759 > > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ > > > From: "G Hansen" <ghans@cable-lynx.net> > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: stacking planes > > Back in the early fifties I remember seeing a single row of Aeronca > Champions stacked nose down along a hangar wall with each propeller > resting in an old tire on the floor. The tailwheels were up against the > hangar wall and the main wheels were not chocked. I don=99t know > whether the fuel was drained, but am pretty sure the oil was still in > the tank. I didn=99t know it at the time, but later (in 1953) one > of those Champs became the first airplane I ever owned. > > Stacking was an effective way to free up floor space and still could be, > provided the ceiling is high enough. Basically, stacking is for storage; > it probably isn=99t practical for airplanes in frequent use. > > Cheers, > > Graham Hansen (Alberta, Canada) > > > From: shad bell > Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2014 9:12 AM > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: stacking planes > > You may get a little oil out of the front seal but as long as it is not > sitting on the crank it should be fine. Put some kind of fixture on the > engine mount to sit it up like that. You will probably want to let it > sit level for an hour or so to get the oil back where it is supposed to > be. > > > Shad > > > On Thursday, June 12, 2014 7:33 AM, Charles Burkholder > wrote: > > > Um, I will take 3 of those Cubs please. Nobody will miss them. LOL > Charles Burkholder > > On 6/11/2014 10:42 PM, Steven Dortch wrote: > > Guys, as I get my Pietenpol Air Camper closer to flight I am faced > with the dilemma of too many plane for one hangar. My 40X32 hangar > (minus 7 ft in each front corner for folding doors) is too small to park > both the old Vtail Bonanza there and the Piet in the normal way. > > I have done a lot of math. But this looks like a real solution. > please look at these photos and tell me if parking the Pietenpol this > way will damage the engine A65 Contenental or the plane? Of course I may > have to drain fuel to do this. Will the engine oil be a problem? > > Blue Skies, > Steve D. > > > > > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com/ > 06/11/14 > > > -- > Charles Burkholder > Visit my blog @ http://missionmechfund.blogspot.ca/ > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-" target="_blank" > rel="nofollow" shape="rect">http://forums.matronics--> > http://www.matronics.com/contribution=========== > > > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > 06/11/14 > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ > > > From: John Greenlee <jmgreenlee(at)sbcglobal.net> > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fw: Varnish > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ > > > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fw: Varnish > From: Scott Knowlton <flyingscott_k(at)hotmail.com> > > I had a similar occurrence with Epifanes. The supplier suggested pouring it > through a fine paint filter. The "bears" were all caught and the product w > as returned to its clear, usable state. Good luck. Epifanes is great stuff > . > > Scott K > > Burlington > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Jun 12, 2014, at 1:58 PM, "John Greenlee" wr > ote: >> >> >> >> From: John Greenlee <jmgreenlee(at)sbcglobal.net>; >> To: ; >> Subject: Varnish >> Sent: Thu, Jun 12, 2014 5:48:51 PM >> >> Help! I've got gummy bears or jelly like stuff suspended in my Epifanes (a > high grade boat varnish). How do I reconstitute this stuff? >> >> > ========================= > ======== > ========================= > ======== > ========================= > ======== > ========================= > ======== >> > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ > > > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Flying to brodhead 2014. > From: "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com> > > > Oh even better if you can do Lafayette. > > Even better than that, I'll get the coordinates of a grass strip of a friend's > about 10 mi north of there, it's only 10 minutes from my place, we can overnight > you easily... although don't need a super early departure, just might make > the next day a bit easier. > > Should be able to get your plane indoors there, we'll get some gas from Lafayette > to fuel up. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=424764#424764 > > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ > > > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Parking at Air Venture. > From: "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com> > > > I was contacted by the Hatz guys who have their fly in colocated with ours at Brodhead. > Kevin Conner (I hope I have his name right) has been working with the > homebuilt coordinator at EAA for a couple years and finally has a "vintage homebuilt" > sort of area set up. > > An area for planes like the Hatz, Fly Baby's, Tailwinds, and of course the grand > puba of vintage homebuilts, Piets! It's a great idea. > > He has invited as many Piets that want to park there, to park there. There's also > a little "show area" where we've been invited to park a plane, so hopefully > one of the show planes come along. > > He's putting together an email of exactly what the arrangement is, that I'll repost > as soon as I get it. If we can get some posters made, we'll display them > there, if not, I'll just borrow the ones from the Piet hangar at Pioneer. > > Kevin will be at Brodhead and would like to address the entire group about what > he has going, so all the finer details can be acquired then (like where to actually > taxi once you land). Not a "sign up" sort of thing (the parking). Who > ever shows, shows. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=424765#424765 > > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ > > > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Flying to brodhead 2014. > From: "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com> > > > Oh, and Wendel's place can host as many as come along. Can probably get two, maybe > three in his hangar. He might be flying up as well... he's got a REALLY > nice RV8, he'll probably take off directly for KOSH so would likely be leaving > well after us. > > If anyone is in the mood to try landing at our place, can get quite a few under > cover. Probably worth landing at Wendel's, then coming over to look over the > field in person and then deciding for yourself. It's quite a climb after landing... > > However a very easy approach with no obstacles. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=424778#424778 > > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ > > > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Flying to brodhead 2014. > From: "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com> > > > My place: > > The coords are: 34.833250, 085.325110 > > The best field to fly into is either Wilson Field > 34.869454, 085.200019i > > Or Wendell's place: > 34.872324, 085.250305 > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=424779#424779 > > > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ > > > From: "Chris" <catdesigns(at)att.net> > Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Fw: Varnish > > John > > > I believe it is partially cured varnish that is in the can. This is quite > common with varnish. It will react with the air that gets into the can when > you open and closed multiple times. Next time pore what you need into > another container so you can keep the can closed. Also try to remove the > air by replacing it with something else. Some people put a small piece of > plastic on the surface or squirt a shot of propane into the can to remove > the air. Other things work too. > > > Some people have had luck straining the clumps out while others think it is > no longer good for a quality finish because it will leave tinny lumps. > There is no way to reconstitute it that I know of. I think it would be ok > if you are covering that part of the plane but I'd buy a new can if it was > the instrument panel. > > > Chris T. > > Sacramento, Ca > > Westcoastpiet.com > > > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John > Greenlee > Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2014 10:53 AM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fw: Varnish > > > > > > _____ > > From: John Greenlee <jmgreenlee(at)sbcglobal.net > >; > >; > Subject: Varnish > Sent: Thu, Jun 12, 2014 5:48:51 PM > > > Help! I've got gummy bears or jelly like stuff suspended in my Epifanes (a > high grade boat varnish). How do I reconstitute this stuff? > > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ > > > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Material for wing ribs > From: Claude Corbett <isablcorky(at)aol.com> > > Pieters, > Last spring I wrote this group that I was beginning to build some sets of wi > ng ribs. Many events have prevented my completing this project. I've tried t > o make a few but I'm experiencing frustration and impatience which results i > n inferior workmanship. Not that I think I'm a craftsman but I would not lik > e to leave some products less than I would like. So, the purpose of this let > ter is to offer some poor Piet builder my inventory of materials I purchased > for this project. > 6 pcs Douglas.Fir from Puget Sound Area, 6ftx6 in kiln dried, close vertical > grain, no pitch pockets. The very finest I could acquire. 2 4x8 sheets boa > t plywood for gussets and. 1 sheet of plywood for 1/8purpose. > T 88 And nails from Wicks. 42.77 > Lumber and plywood from Eden-saw. 408.80 > > 451.5 > 7 No more no less. FOB Shreveport, La > > About half the lumber has been milled down to 1/4x3/8 x 5 ft for caps trip > A few gussets cutout. > > Anyone interested please contact me direct on internet or 318 455 7435 > I guarantee a real bargain > > > Sent > > my iPad >

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> > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ > > > From: "Boatright, Jeffrey" <jeffboatright(at)emory.edu> > Subject: Pietenpol-List: FW: ForeFlight: 2GA9 9A5 M54 I91 C16 C77 C37 > > What do you guys think of this plan? I am completely open to any alternativ > e suggestions about airports vaguely near this flight path and any local pr > oblems you may know of that may arise from this plan. The fields chosen all > have turf runways (except 9A1, but Tools has given us alternative grass st > rips nearby). Grass is not absolutely necessary, but it=92s nice. I don=92t > know much else about these airports except I=92ve read that Frasca Field ( > C16) and Poplar Grove (C77) are neat places. > The cities/large towns near this path are roughly: Snellville GA (2GA9), La > fayette GA /Chattanooga (9A1), Lebanon TN (M54), Evansville/Boonville IN (I > 91), Urbana IL (C16), Poplar Grove IL (C77), Brodhead WI (C37). > > > [cid:9FD7780B-4D8D-4750-B010-5DD0D7D9800C] > =97=97=97=97=97=97=97=97=97=97=97=97=97=97=97=97=97=97=97=97=97=97=97=97=97 > =97=97=97=97 > Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD, FARVO > Professor of Ophthalmology > Emory University School of Medicine > Sent from an iPad with a spelling problem > > ________________________________ > > This e-mail message (including any attachments) is for the sole use of > the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged > information. If the reader of this message is not the intended > recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution > or copying of this message (including any attachments) is strictly > prohibited. > > If you have received this message in error, please contact > the sender by reply e-mail message and destroy all copies of the > original message (including attachments). > > ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ > > > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: stacking planes > From: "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> > > > Pretty cool! It would definitely get the attention of passers-by! If you have > a Continental, just looking at the photos and the angle of the engine, I don't > see how much of the oil would get out of the kidney tank into the crankcase, > and even if it did, I don't see how it would be up into the main seal. Fuel > would definitely be a problem with my airplane if there was more than about 3/4 > tank in it. > > It seems like it would be a cinch to hoist the tail from a pulley, and tying off > the rope would hold the airplane securely in that position. My airplane starts > to want to go onto its nose once I raise the tail much past straight and level, > so I would sure want a cushion or rubber tire right where the prop was going > to touch the floor. > > Now that I see that, I'm thinking I may just try it out this winter! > > -------- > Oscar Zuniga > Medford, OR > Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" > A75 power > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=424785#424785 > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Barry Davis" <bed(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: FW: ForeFlight: 2GA9 9A5 M54 I91 C16 C77 C37
Date: Jun 13, 2014
You will like Frasca Field and Lucile's Hot Dog Stand. The grass strip is N/S and paved is E/W. Might want to call as Rudy's group will be departing for Osh. Barry From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Boatright, Jeffrey Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2014 11:35 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: FW: ForeFlight: 2GA9 9A5 M54 I91 C16 C77 C37 What do you guys think of this plan? I am completely open to any alternative suggestions about airports vaguely near this flight path and any local problems you may know of that may arise from this plan. The fields chosen all have turf runways (except 9A1, but Tools has given us alternative grass strips nearby). Grass is not absolutely necessary, but it's nice. I don't know much else about these airports except I've read that Frasca Field (C16) and Poplar Grove (C77) are neat places. The cities/large towns near this path are roughly: Snellville GA (2GA9), Lafayette GA /Chattanooga (9A1), Lebanon TN (M54), Evansville/Boonville IN (I91), Urbana IL (C16), Poplar Grove IL (C77), Brodhead WI (C37). ----------------------------- Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD, FARVO Professor of Ophthalmology Emory University School of Medicine Sent from an iPad with a spelling problem _____ This e-mail message (including any attachments) is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this message (including any attachments) is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please contact the sender by reply e-mail message and destroy all copies of the original message (including attachments). ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 13, 2014
From: shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: stacking planes
I have frequently used the term "stacking the hangar".- Now I know why th at term is used.=0AShad =0A=0A=0AOn Friday, June 13, 2014 12:20 AM, taildra gs wrote:=0A =0A=0A=0A--> Pietenpol-List message p osted by: "taildrags" =0A=0APretty cool!- It would definitely get the attention of passers-by!- If you have a Continental, just looking at the photos and the angle of the engine, I don't see how muc h of the oil would get out of the kidney tank into the crankcase, and even if it did, I don't see how it would be up into the main seal.- Fuel would definitely be a problem with my airplane if there was more than about 3/4 tank in it.=0A=0AIt seems like it would be a cinch to hoist the tail from a pulley, and tying off the rope would hold the airplane securely in that po sition.- My airplane starts to want to go onto its nose once I raise the tail much past straight and level, so I would sure want a cushion or rubber tire right where the prop was going to touch the floor.=0A=0ANow that I se e that, I'm thinking I may just try it out this winter!=0A=0A--------=0AOsc ar Zuniga=0AMedford, OR=0AAir Camper NX41CC "Scout"=0AA75 power =0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.co ============= ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Claude Corbett <isablcorky(at)aol.com>
Date: Jun 13, 2014
Would the Pieter from Tennessee please resend I his message, I accidentally destroyed, it. The wood is not spruce but high quality Douglas 'Fir. Also. I failed to mention there is enough material to build 3 sets of wings. The rib jig is also complete. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Material for wing ribs
From: Claude Corbett <isablcorky(at)aol.com>
Date: Jun 13, 2014
Pieters, Last spring I wrote this group that I was beginning to build some sets of wi ng ribs. Many events have prevented my completing this project. I've tried t o make a few but I'm experiencing frustration and impatience which results i n inferior workmanship. Not that I think I'm a craftsman but I would not lik e to leave some products less than I would like. So, the purpose of this let ter is to offer some poor Piet builder my inventory of materials I purchased for this project. 6 pcs Douglas.Fir from Puget Sound Area, 6ftx6 in kiln dried, close vertical grain, no pitch pockets. The very finest I could acquire. 2 4x8 sheets boa t plywood for gussets and. 1 sheet of plywood for 1/8purpose. T 88 And nails from Wicks. 42.77 Lumber and plywood from Eden-saw. 408.80 451.57 No more no less. FOB Shreveport, La About half the lumber has been milled down to 1/4x3/8 x 5 ft for caps trip A few gussets cutout. Anyone interested please contact me direct on internet or 318 455 7435 I guarantee a real bargain Would the person from Tenn please resend your message? I accidentally trashe d it. Sent Oo my iPad

      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Claude Corbett <isablcorky(at)aol.com>
Date: Jun 13, 2014
Would the Pieter from Tennessee please resend I his message, I accidentally destroyed, it. The wood is not spruce but high quality Douglas 'Fir. Also. I failed to mention there is enough material to build 3 sets of wings. The rib jig is also complete. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 14, 2014
Subject: ceconite
From: Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com>
what is the concensus on the 1.8oz, ceconite for tail surface? -- Blue Skies, Steve D ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ben Charvet <bencharvet(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: ceconite
Date: Jun 14, 2014
Thats what I used for the entire airplane Sent from my iPhone > On Jun 14, 2014, at 12:50 PM, Steven Dortch wr ote: > > what is the concensus on the 1.8oz, ceconite for tail surface? > > -- > Blue Skies, > Steve D > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: flying as a group
Date: Jun 14, 2014
Pardon my ignorance here since I never fly formation=2C but when a group en ters a towered field only one of the pilots is communicating and the others in the formation or group follow their prescribed and pre-arranged sequenc e=2C right? So does that mean that if transponder is required=2C only one of the aircraft in the group would be required to have one? Oscar Zuniga Medford=2C OR ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: flying as a group
From: dog67(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 14, 2014
Normally only the lead aircraft has their transponder on, everyone else on standby. Otherwise ATC gets alerts for the planes being too close. So, if you had no transponder, you couldn't be lead - but otherwise I don't see a problem. Although if you were within the Mode C veil, I wouldn't advertis e that you don't have a transponder at all. My 2 cents Cheers Jon Apfelbaum -----Original Message----- From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> Sent: Sat, Jun 14, 2014 11:55 am Subject: Pietenpol-List: flying as a group Pardon my ignorance here since I never fly formation, but when a group ente rs a towered field only one of the pilots is communicating and the others i n the formation or group follow their prescribed and pre-arranged sequence, right? So does that mean that if transponder is required, only one of the aircraft in the group would be required to have one? Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 14, 2014
Subject: Pitot
From: Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com>
I have the opportunity to place my Pitot system inside the Wing.Previosly it ran down the side and up the strut. Can I use flexible vinyl tube, or is it better to use the old metal tube provided? -- Blue Skies, Steve D ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Pitot
From: "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Jun 14, 2014
I've got flexible tube and it works fine. My only recommendation would be to make the pitot tube replaceable through an inspection hole. Mine was, but just barely. Using a 1/4" hex head instead of a #8 phillips would have saved HOURS! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=424834#424834 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 14, 2014
Subject: scuff damage
From: Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com>
On the top of my horizontal stabilizer it got scuffed on one edge of the top. It did not tear the ceconite fabric glued to the wood but it is scratched and the paint is scratched away. How should I treat the fabric? just paint it? or do something to prepare it before painting? -- Blue Skies, Steve D ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: flying as a group
From: "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Jun 14, 2014
Kinda what I thought. So with some planning, a group could fly with one of the airplanes having xpdr and the tag-a-longs should be OK. In fact, the guy with xpdr could "share expenses" by collecting beer money for escorting "negative xpdr" compadres in and out of the verboten airspace ;o) -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=424849#424849 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Pitot
From: "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Jun 14, 2014
Steve; the ram air tubing on Scout, which is run inside the wing from the pitot location on the jury strut, looks to be standard "aquarium hose" clear vinyl. Unless I ran the math wrong, stagnation air pressure at Vne of 95 MPH is going to be less than 1/4 psi, so it's not like the tubing is going to be under a lot of pressure. That said, you can see that the ASI depends on measuring very small differences in pressure, so the connections should be reasonably tight or you'll have errors in the ASI readout. On my airplane, Corky slid the vinyl tubing over the ends of the metal pitot and static tubes and then secured them with safety wire snugged up to clamp the plastic tubing onto the metallic tubing. -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=424851#424851 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: scuff damage
From: "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Jun 14, 2014
Steve; my opinion only. If you can see that the fabric has not worn through, all you should need to do is clean it up and then build it back up as recommended for the Ceconite system. At least put the silver or UV blocker on the area before touching up the color coat. If the fabric weave is not intact, apply a fabric patch. -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=424852#424852 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: scuff damage
From: "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com>
Date: Jun 15, 2014
Steve, If you can see bare fabric you'll most likely need to get a little nitrate (if its dope) or polyburush (if its Poly Tone) on there first. Then the silver , clear, and color. Don Emch NX899DE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=424882#424882 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 15, 2014
From: Jim Boyer <boyerjrb(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: ceconite
HI Steve, I used it for all covering. Jim B. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: model A engine
From: "bender" <dude(at)twc.com>
Date: Jun 16, 2014
So I have my engine torn down. The #1 piston scuffed pretty much all the way around. #2 has scuffs all the way down the skirt perpendicular to the pins. #3 has very light scuffs but same as #2 #4 is ok.. but the last failure it was scuffed like #1. the clearance is just under .003 piston to wall. I have new pistons and I'm thinking of opening the clearance to about .006 the temps and oil pressure have been great. And the fact that it has happened to all 4 cylinders has me thinking is not a hot spot is just a clearance problem. I'm going to put it back together but thinking the engine could go in my AA truck and I know of a little continental in town if things don't work out. I hate to think that way because I know there are A's that have been flying safely for years and I prefer the A. I guess I can run it hard on the ground and see if opening it up takes care of the problem. Jeff Faith sdf Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=424937#424937 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: model A engine
From: "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Jun 16, 2014
Hey Jeff, Did you ever check the ring clearance? I imagine the whole set would have the same clearance and could cause this problem. .02 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=424940#424940 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: model A engine
From: "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Jun 16, 2014
Even more thoughts... Have you checked the clearance for EACH piston? Depending on the manufacturer, each one could be a few thou different just due to quality control (think Chinese pistons here...). Even good manufacturers have tolerances and they get exceeded on occasion. Did you change the pistons last time? Perhaps you just coincidently wound up with the right size piston in that #1 cyl this time. This whole measuring consistently and accurately down to .001 or less is FAR LESS than trivial and matters. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=424944#424944 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: model A engine
From: "tkreiner" <tkreiner(at)gmail.com>
Date: Jun 16, 2014
When I ran a Thermal Expansion on your piston, I came up with some numbers that you might want to consider... Assuming these are 4.00 in. diameter aluminum pistons, with a Coefficient of Thermal Expansion of 13.1 uin/in/F degree, you run the calculation like this: 4.00 x 13.1e-6 x Temp, and you get the expansion of the piston. For 150 degree rise, the diameter of your piston grows by .00786 inches. Perhaps speaking with some of the Model A guys to get the proper clearance would be the best starting point, as the numbers don't lie, and at 200 degrees, the increase in diameter is over .010. It will help a lot to determine the running temp of the engine and set your clearance - and ring gap - sufficiently to provide .0015 to .002 clearance AT RUNNING TEMP. Best of luck with this; let us all know how it turns out. -------- Tom Kreiner Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=424947#424947 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: model A engine
From: "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Jun 16, 2014
Wouldn't those expansion calculations be for if the piston was a solid piece? Nearly 7 thou expansion at a rather low temp seems excessive. Also, pistons don't generally expand evenly, which is why modern pistons are cam ground. Lastly, I did just find a 1931 reference to tolerances used in the manufacture of the Ford A, and it mentions .002 MAX. Now, I do know it's common to simply overbore to address issues like these, but if .002 is the manufacturers recommendation, and most chevy guys seem to indicate about.004 is alright (for the MUCH higher horsepower and rpm ranges of v8 small blocks) for street engines... something just doesn't add up. I think factory specs are about .003 max out the door. The .007 and up clearances seem to be used mostly by guys really hot rodding the engine, not producing 50 hp... Besides ring end gap, have you checked the fit of each piston in several locations in the cylinder? Perhaps your block is tapered... Checked in several clock codes to try and find out of round? Perhaps a six pack of beer and a google search for a car club in your area to find someone with a bore gage you can play around with to help determine exactly what is going on. Also a good micrometer to double check the pistons. Also, are you using forge or cast pistons? Cast need more clearance. I just hate over boring (honing) without really knowing, because that will shorten the life of the engine. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=424950#424950 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Pietenpol motor mount drop
From: "Lithuanian" <projektas.orlaivis(at)gmail.com>
Date: Jun 17, 2014
Hello to all I have a question about the engine mounting angle . In 1932 year drawings the angle is 2 1/2 inch, and 1933 year drawings - 1 inch. Why such a big difference? Fuselage length differs by only 2 inches. In both cases, the engine of the Ford A. And what is needed at all lowering the engine axis, or is it necessary for the angle of attack.? I look forward to your ideas on the matter Sorry for my English Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=424994#424994 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/motor_mount_1933_113.bmp http://forums.matronics.com//files/motor_mount_1932_200.bmp ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: model A engine
From: "bender" <dude(at)twc.com>
Date: Jun 17, 2014
I have measured each piston and bore.. very consistent . I'm using 283 chevy .060 over pistons with rods from Antique Engine Rebuilding made for this setup with modern bearings. I put one new piston in and all new rings last time. The ring gap was .020. these are cam ground. its been mentioned that I should go back to Model A pistons..I'm not sure I believe they would be better in any way, just different unless I'm totally missing something. Dan is flying with pretty much the same engine and seems to be OK thanks for the input Jeff Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=424999#424999 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Rudder Control horn location
From: "GrantZ" <grantz5906(at)aol.com>
Date: Jun 17, 2014
I have noticed that some folks place their rudder horn below the horizontal stab rather than above as per plan. Seems that would make cable routing easier but what about changes in torsion load on the rudder mair spar? I am certain Mr. Pietenpol had a reason for his location but additional understanding would be useful. Thoughts and comments on advantages or disadvantages of each location appreciated as I am ready to mount my horn. Thanks Grant Ziebell Savannah, TN Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425000#425000 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Boatright, Jeffrey" <jeffboatright(at)emory.edu>
Subject: Re: Rudder Control horn location
Date: Jun 17, 2014
My horns are below, built that way in 1976, several hundred flight hours. Don't know of advantages or disadvantages. Sent from an iPhone with a spelling problem > On Jun 17, 2014, at 8:27 AM, "GrantZ" wrote: > > > I have noticed that some folks place their rudder horn below the horizontal stab rather than above as per plan. Seems that would make cable routing easier but what about changes in torsion load on the rudder mair spar? I am certain Mr. Pietenpol had a reason for his location but additional understanding would be useful. > > Thoughts and comments on advantages or disadvantages of each location appreciated as I am ready to mount my horn. > > > Thanks > Grant Ziebell > Savannah, TN > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425000#425000 > > ________________________________ This e-mail message (including any attachments) is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this message (including any attachments) is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please contact the sender by reply e-mail message and destroy all copies of the original message (including attachments). ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <jack(at)bedfordlandings.com>
Subject: Rudder Control horn location
Date: Jun 17, 2014
Grant, you are correct in that placing the horn in the middle makes for easier loading of the rudder. The primary advantages of moving the horn below the stabilizer are: 1) More direct routing of the rudder cables 2) Easy to connect a steerable tailwheel The problems with moving it below the stabilizer are: 1) More difficult to inspect the cable connections to the horn 2) Potentially for overloading the rudder spar from tailwheel loads (not sure I even believe this) I built mine to the plans and can easily inspect the cables on every preflight. However, building to the plans required a separate set of cables from the rudder bar to the tailwheel for tailwheel steering, adding weight to an already tailheavy airplane. I think either way would be fine, but the purists will cringe. Jack Phillips NX899JP Smith Mountain Lake (W91) Virginia -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of GrantZ Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2014 8:24 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Rudder Control horn location I have noticed that some folks place their rudder horn below the horizontal stab rather than above as per plan. Seems that would make cable routing easier but what about changes in torsion load on the rudder mair spar? I am certain Mr. Pietenpol had a reason for his location but additional understanding would be useful. Thoughts and comments on advantages or disadvantages of each location appreciated as I am ready to mount my horn. Thanks Grant Ziebell Savannah, TN Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425000#425000 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Pietenpol motor mount drop
From: "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca>
Date: Jun 17, 2014
I believe the 1932 drawings indicate 2 1/2 (degrees, not inches). Bill C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425010#425010 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 17, 2014
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Rudder Control horn location
Grant, I have attached a picture for your consideration. I placed my rudder horn below the horiz. stab. I ran the rudder cables direct from the rudder bar as usual and then nicopressed the tail wheel cables to those near the tail end of the fuselage. You can see the pulleys and support structure. It took some trial and error, but I managed to get the pulleys lined up and a ngled correctly with the natural lay of the cables.- This method does not induce any added load directly to the rudder. The various turn buckles and tail wheel springs are all housed inside the fuselage. I have more picture s available if you are interested.=0A=0A-=0A=0AIf God is your co-pilot... switch seats. =0AMike Perez =0AKaretaker Aero =0ASTILL Building...=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: model A engine
From: "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Jun 17, 2014
Ok... Here's another thought, but would think this one would show up in the water temp. I've rebuilt (including the boring) small ATV motors. The ones that were fairly overbored (in the .040 plus range, I think this one was 60 or 80 over), we had problems with it overheating because at that point the original carb jet was now too small. Is Dan's 60 over as well? The mixture needle usually only applies to low speed. Is the main jet replaceable in your carb? Come to think of it, had this problem in a Bobcat motor as well, at .040 over. Just food for thought and brainstorming... Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425027#425027 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: model A engine
From: "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org>
Date: Jun 17, 2014
Tools, If I understand Jeff correctly. The pistons he is using are .060 over Chev 283 pistons. I don't think he has said the Model A block is .060 over. Jeff, please correct me if I am wrong but I would guess the model A block may only be .010 or .020 over which should not create a heating issue. I would understand a heating issue if the compression was raise a lot. I think also that if the engine were running lean that there would be signs of detonation or even a melted piston. Jeff, Since you have already said that heat has not been the issue, I would keep looking at the clearances as the possible cause. Another thought here but please remember I have not built a Model A but have been a mechanic for 36 years. Since you have changed to a bearing inserts, could it be possible that the old arrangement had oil dippers that would splash oil onto the piston skirts and Cyl walls? Are the Cyl walls getting enough oil on them? The question I have is "What Changed" from the original design. It is very hard to be a Monday morning quarterback when I can't hold the parts in my hand. I am certainly interested in knowing what you find the root cause is and please don't give up on that engine. You have too much time invested in it to give up on it. My 3 cents, respectfully, -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425031#425031 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: model A engine
From: "bender" <dude(at)twc.com>
Date: Jun 17, 2014
The Model A original bore was 3.876 and the 283 is 3.875.. so yes the engine is bored .060 over. The Model a catalogs show pistons available up to .125 oversize which makes me think .060 leaves plenty of metal. The insert bearings have holes for oil plenty big and holes on the upper side of the rod bearings to "spray" the walls. It all looks normal. the fact that its not just one or two cylinders really makes me think its about clearance but I also have to think about trust after 2 glider rides. the biggest reason I built a Piet was the extra A engine I had sitting around... I want to use it but if I need to put it in the truck to feel safe I may. Jeff Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425037#425037 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: model A engine
From: "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org>
Date: Jun 17, 2014
Jeff, Thanks for that response. I learned something today, very informative. Good luck deciding what to do. I do like the reliability of my 85 cont. engine. I can go anywhere anytime I want and not worry about it. Nearly every airport in this country will have parts laying around should I ever need them. I put 9 hours on mine just a week ago, going to and from the west coast Piet gathering, and hopped rides while I was there. My moto here at work is to learn something new each day, then go home. With that said, I am going home in 15 minutes. Cheers, -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425038#425038 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 17, 2014
Subject:
From: Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com>
*To cover the horizontal Stab on my plane I think I need the following: * Lightweight Ceconite (1.8OZ) Ceconite New Super Seam 1 QT Ceconite Hand Thread 250 or Stits Hand Sewing Thread? 3"Curved Needle C102 Straight Tape 2" Any Suggestions? The Ceconite page says I must have an Iron (calibrated) but several videos show people using a heatgun ( I have one of these) ! Am I missing anything? -- Blue Skies, Steve D ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 17, 2014
Subject: Champ at 8T8
From: Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com>
Oscar and John, Last weekend I met Lou (something italian) at 8t8. He has a 90 HP champ. Nice guy. said he would help with any fabric work if I caught him at the airport. Do y'all know him? -- Blue Skies, Steve D ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <jack(at)bedfordlandings.com>
Subject:
Date: Jun 17, 2014
Steve, I strongly recommend you get a copy of the Ceconite manual. If it is anything like the PolyFiber manual, a heatgun is a big no-no, and a good way to lose most or all of the strength of the fabric. If you have never done any fabric covering, it would be smart to go to Oshkosh next month and take a workshop. Good luck, Jack Phillips NX899JP Smith Mountain Lake (W91), Virginia _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steven Dortch Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2014 4:56 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: To cover the horizontal Stab on my plane I think I need the following: Lightweight Ceconite (1.8OZ) Ceconite New Super Seam 1 QT Ceconite Hand Thread 250 or Stits Hand Sewing Thread? 3"Curved Needle C102 Straight Tape 2" Any Suggestions? The Ceconite page says I must have an Iron (calibrated) but several videos show people using a heatgun ( I have one of these) ! Am I missing anything? -- Blue Skies, Steve D ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 17, 2014
From: shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re:
DON'T USE A HEAT GUN!- They should include instructions on iron calibrati on, its just a wet bulb thermometer that is held to the iron).- The probl em with a heat gun is that you can easily shrink it too far, and it won't h ave-uniform shrinkage.- I used a model airplane covering iron (Monocoat Iron) for my fabric work, but if covering a whole airplane buy a decent cl othes iron.=0A=0AShad =0A=0A=0AOn Tuesday, June 17, 2014 5:03 PM, Steven Do rtch wrote:=0A =0A=0A=0ATo cover the horizonta l Stab on my plane I think I need the following: - =0ALightweight Ceconit e-(1.8OZ) =0ACeconite New Super Seam 1 QT =0ACeconite Hand Thread 250 or Stits Hand Sewing Thread? =0A3"Curved Needle =0AC102 Straight Tape 2" =0AAn y Suggestions? =0A- =0AThe Ceconite page says I must have an Iron (calib rated) but several videos show people using a heatgun ( I have one of these ) ! =0AAm I missing anything? =0A=0A-- =0A=0ABlue Skies,=0ASteve D=0A =0A_ -======================== ============== ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: model A engine
From: "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Jun 17, 2014
I think this issue, notwithstanding glider rides and such... is FANTASTIC in terms of learning something new, and something that VERY LIKELY could lead to someone else NOT having a glider ride someday! I'm just throwing out anything I can, as I have run into issues like this before, and it's ALWAYS different. In terms of the overboring, I do think 60 over leaves plenty of metal, it's just that in smaller higher tolerance very hi rpm motors it's an issue of mixture, and they'll run lean if the displacement increases enough without rejetting. Seems unlikely in this case, but since it hadn't been mentioned, thought I throw it out JUST IN CASE! It's like you said, what's different? In this case, we do have a fairly good control with Dan's motor. Still, SOMETHING is different. Was Dan's overbored that much? Although a car might be able to run 125 over, car motors don't run WIDE OPEN nearly all the time. I still think the lean issue would show in water temp, where clearance issues won't. Do we know how much clearance Dan has? Both using forge or cast pistons? It seems the forge/cast issue is likely as well. I'm trying to get in touch with the local model A club here in OSH area, maybe someone has some more definitive experience that could help. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425047#425047 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 17, 2014
From: Michael Groah <dskogrover(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: West Coast Pietenpol Gathering
=0A=0AHere is a nice video made by Tom Reeves who attended our west coast g athering.- We had a smaller group of planes and builders this year but we still had a great time!=0A=0AMike Groah=0A414MV=0A=0A=0A- Peitenpol Fly- in 2014=0A=0A =0A Peitenpol Fly-in 2014 =0AView on vimeo.com Preview by Yahoo ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 17, 2014
Subject: Re: tenpol-List:
From: Mario Giacummo <mario.giacummo(at)gmail.com>
Its easy, very easy. Just common sense. If something go wrong.... With the stab you can throw the fabric away and start again. Beleve me. Regards El 17/06/2014 17:58, "Steven Dortch" escribi=C3 =B3: > *To cover the horizontal Stab on my plane I think I need the following: * > > Lightweight Ceconite (1.8OZ) > > Ceconite New Super Seam 1 QT > > Ceconite Hand Thread 250 or Stits Hand Sewing Thread? > > 3"Curved Needle > > C102 Straight Tape 2" > > Any Suggestions? > > > The Ceconite page says I must have an Iron (calibrated) but several video s > show people using a heatgun ( I have one of these) ! > > Am I missing anything? > > > -- > Blue Skies, > Steve D > > * > =========== .matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List> =========== =========== om/contribution> =========== > > * > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: West Coast Pietenpol Gathering
From: "aerocarjake" <flight.jake(at)gmail.com>
Date: Jun 17, 2014
Very nice....!!!! THANKS for posting the video........ (appreciate the inspiration...!) -------- Jake Schultz - curator, Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425052#425052 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 17, 2014
From: gliderx5(at)comcast.net
Subject: Measuring Latex Viscosity
Hi all As many of you know, I'm a big fan of latex paint. I've presented an Oshkosh forum and EAA webinar on the topic, and I'm scheduled for two more Oshkosh forums this year. One thing that people keep asking is how much to thin the paint. I kind of know by sight how much to thin it, but that's hard to relate to someone else. To make a more repeatable and accurate measurement I'm now using a homemade viscosity cup. Store bought cups were hard for me to find and claimed to not work with latex. I've added a page to my website that describes how to make and use the cup. Have a look. I hope it's useful. http://wienerdogaero.com/LatexViscosity.php Malcolm Morrison Wiener Dog Aero ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: tenpol-List:
From: "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org>
Date: Jun 17, 2014
I need to say this very loudly. I'm screaming now. DO NOT use a heat gun. You will have many problems. There is know way to control the heat. It can warp your structure, burn holes in the fabric and just look awful. I'm sure I have missed a bunch of other stuff. Just use the iron and you will be happy. You worked too hard on the structure to rush in the end and have something you won't be proud of. Please use an iron. Respectfully, -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425057#425057 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 17, 2014
From: Michael Groah <dskogrover(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: tenpol-List:
yes... as Scott said... use an iron, do not use a heat gun... You can use a household clothing iron.- Just use a thermometer to calibrate and mark o n the iron for the appropriate temperatures (there are videos online that s how this step).- Easy and cheap.--=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AOn Tuesday, June 17, 2014 5:59 PM, AircamperN11MS wrote:=0A =0A=0A city.org>=0A=0AI need to say this very loudly. I'm screaming now. DO NOT us e a heat gun. You will have many problems. There is know way to control the heat. It can warp your structure, burn holes in the fabric and just look a wful. I'm sure I have missed a bunch of other stuff. Just use the iron and you will be happy. You worked too hard on the structure to rush in the end and have something you won't be proud of. =0A=0APlease use an iron. Respect fully,=0A=0A--------=0AScott Liefeld=0AFlying N11MS since March 1972=0AStee l Tube=0AC-85-12=0AWire Wheels=0ABrodhead in 1996=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this t opic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425057 = ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 17, 2014
Subject: Re: tenpol-List:
From: Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com>
Gee Scott, Quit waffling and give me your opinion. I saw the warning on the Ceconite website about using an Iron. Then I watched a video where a guy uses a heatgun like an artist. Since I ain't no Douwe, I guess I will use an Iron. Will it screw up my wife's iron? Blue Skies, Steve D On Tue, Jun 17, 2014 at 7:52 PM, AircamperN11MS wrote: > Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org> > > I need to say this very loudly. I'm screaming now. DO NOT use a heat gun. > You will have many problems. There is know way to control the heat. It can > warp your structure, burn holes in the fabric and just look awful. I'm sure > I have missed a bunch of other stuff. Just use the iron and you will be > happy. You worked too hard on the structure to rush in the end and have > something you won't be proud of. > > Please use an iron. Respectfully, > > -------- > Scott Liefeld > Flying N11MS since March 1972 > Steel Tube > C-85-12 > Wire Wheels > Brodhead in 1996 > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425057#425057 > > -- Blue Skies, Steve D ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Clif Dawson" <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol motor mount drop
Date: Jun 17, 2014
= Alt + 248 on the right number pad. Just so you know. :-) Clif ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca> Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2014 7:34 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol motor mount drop > > > I believe the 1932 drawings indicate 2 1/2 (degrees, not inches). > > Bill C. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425010#425010 > > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: tenpol-List:
From: glenschweizer(at)yahoo.com
Date: Jun 17, 2014
Hi Stephen A full sized iron along with a modeler's iron. At the hobby store wher e you get the modeler's iron get a thermometer for calibration. Right tools for the job. You're going to progressively shrink your fabric three differ ent times, each time higher temp. Make some small framed test panels. Sent from my iPhone > On Jun 17, 2014, at 7:13 PM, Steven Dortch wro te: > > Gee Scott, Quit waffling and give me your opinion. I saw the warning on t he Ceconite website about using an Iron. Then I watched a video where a guy u ses a heatgun like an artist. Since I ain't no Douwe, I guess I will use an I ron. Will it screw up my wife's iron? > > Blue Skies, > Steve D > > >> On Tue, Jun 17, 2014 at 7:52 PM, AircamperN11MS wrote: ity.org> >> >> I need to say this very loudly. I'm screaming now. DO NOT use a heat gun. You will have many problems. There is know way to control the heat. It can w arp your structure, burn holes in the fabric and just look awful. I'm sure I have missed a bunch of other stuff. Just use the iron and you will be happy . You worked too hard on the structure to rush in the end and have something you won't be proud of. >> >> Please use an iron. Respectfully, >> >> -------- >> Scott Liefeld >> Flying N11MS since March 1972 >> Steel Tube >> C-85-12 >> Wire Wheels >> Brodhead in 1996 >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425057#425057 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ========== >> br> -List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol -List >> ========== >> MS - >> k">http://forums.matronics.com >> ========== >> e - >> -Matt Dralle, List Admin. >> t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> ========== > > > > -- > Blue Skies, > Steve D > > 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Rudder Control horn location
From: "GrantZ" <grantz5906(at)aol.com>
Date: Jun 17, 2014
Thanks to all. Good comments. I think I will leave horn unmounted until ready to rig cables, then decide. Mike Perez - additional photos would be much appreciated Thanks again. Grant Ziebell Savannah, TN Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425066#425066 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: tenpol-List:
From: "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org>
Date: Jun 17, 2014
Yes I got a little excited. Then I saw the other more tactful replies. Your wife's iron may work. The trouble with most new irons are attorneys. Some won't get hot enough and others have a built in timer that shuts it off after a period of time. Get a candy thermometer to calibrate it. Also use the same extension cord every time so the temp are repeatable. Just mark the dial with marks you understand. Like maybe 1, 2 and 3 for the different settings you need. You may need to try a couple of different irons to find one you like. I'm glad you laughed rather than cry after reading my rant. Have fun. Covering was the best part most fun for me. -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425067#425067 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 17, 2014
Subject: Re: tenpol-List:
From: Ken Bickers <bickers.ken(at)gmail.com>
Steve (and Scott), I'm not a big fan of the candy thermometer approach to calibrating irons. I used one of those on my first attempt at shrinking fabric. I first calibrated the candy thermometer by placing it in boiling water. It was pretty close to the right number. But you can only calibrate the thermometer at that one temperature, which means when you use it to calibrate the iron it can be off a lot at temperatures that matter. In my case, the first shrink at 250 degrees was just fine. So was the second shrink at 300, or so I thought. On the third and final shrink at 350 degrees, the iron went right through the ceconite. I threw the candy thermometer away, tore off the remaining fabric, and started that piece over. Fortunately it was one of the small pieces. I then bought one of those little wheel style mechanical wire thermometers. It worked just fine. I'd concur with Scott about the extension cord. I had to use a longer cord when I covered my wings. I found that the temperatures on the iron were off by quite a bit when I used the second cord. Recalibrating from time to time is a good idea anyway, but especially so if you change cords. One last thing. You can find lots of perfectly good old-style used irons at flea markets. Or do what I did. Buy your wife a fancy new one. Take the old one out to the hangar. Ken On Tue, Jun 17, 2014 at 9:43 PM, AircamperN11MS wrote: > Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org> > > Yes I got a little excited. Then I saw the other more tactful replies. > Your wife's iron may work. The trouble with most new irons are attorneys. > Some won't get hot enough and others have a built in timer that shuts it > off after a period of time. Get a candy thermometer to calibrate it. Also > use the same extension cord every time so the temp are repeatable. Just > mark the dial with marks you understand. Like maybe 1, 2 and 3 for the > different settings you need. You may need to try a couple of different > irons to find one you like. > I'm glad you laughed rather than cry after reading my rant. > > Have fun. Covering was the best part most fun for me. > > -------- > Scott Liefeld > Flying N11MS since March 1972 > Steel Tube > C-85-12 > Wire Wheels > Brodhead in 1996 > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425067#425067 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: John Kuhfahl <kuhlcouper(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Champ at 8T8
Date: Jun 18, 2014
Yes--good guy. Sent from my iPhone John Kuhfahl President, KUHLCOUPER LLC On Jun 17, 2014, at 3:58 PM, Steven Dortch wrote : > Oscar and John, Last weekend I met Lou (something italian) at 8t8. He has a 90 HP champ. Nice guy. said he would help with any fabric work if I caught h im at the airport. Do y'all know him? > > -- > Blue Skies, > Steve D > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: tenpol-List:
From: Jack <jack(at)textors.com>
Date: Jun 18, 2014
Yes Steve it will mess it up. Sent from my iPad Jack Textor > On Jun 17, 2014, at 9:13 PM, Steven Dortch wro te: > > Gee Scott, Quit waffling and give me your opinion. I saw the warning on t he Ceconite website about using an Iron. Then I watched a video where a guy u ses a heatgun like an artist. Since I ain't no Douwe, I guess I will use an I ron. Will it screw up my wife's iron? > > Blue Skies, > Steve D > > >> On Tue, Jun 17, 2014 at 7:52 PM, AircamperN11MS wrote: ity.org> >> >> I need to say this very loudly. I'm screaming now. DO NOT use a heat gun. You will have many problems. There is know way to control the heat. It can w arp your structure, burn holes in the fabric and just look awful. I'm sure I have missed a bunch of other stuff. Just use the iron and you will be happy . You worked too hard on the structure to rush in the end and have something you won't be proud of. >> >> Please use an iron. Respectfully, >> >> -------- >> Scott Liefeld >> Flying N11MS since March 1972 >> Steel Tube >> C-85-12 >> Wire Wheels >> Brodhead in 1996 >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425057#425057 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ========== >> br> -List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol -List >> ========== >> MS - >> k">http://forums.matronics.com >> ========== >> e - >> -Matt Dralle, List Admin. >> t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> ========== > > > > -- > Blue Skies, > Steve D > > 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Pietenpol motor mount drop
From: "Lithuanian" <projektas.orlaivis(at)gmail.com>
Date: Jun 18, 2014
Bill Church wrote: > I believe the 1932 drawings indicate 2 1/2 (degrees, not inches). > > Bill C. thank you Bill for help Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425070#425070 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Gene Rambo <generambo(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: tenpol-List:
Date: Jun 18, 2014
Those infra-red "pistol" type thermometers are relatively cheap ($30?) and g ive instantaneous, accurate temp. Using that, I've found that marks on the i rons I have used are worthless. Keep the IR by your side and check it often while working. You'll be amazed b y the fluctuations, but you won't burn any holes. Gene On Jun 18, 2014, at 12:03 AM, Ken Bickers wrote: > Steve (and Scott), I'm not a big fan of the candy thermometer approach to c alibrating irons. I used one of those on my first attempt at shrinking fabr ic. I first calibrated the candy thermometer by placing it in boiling water . It was pretty close to the right number. But you can only calibrate the t hermometer at that one temperature, which means when you use it to calibrate the iron it can be off a lot at temperatures that matter. In my case, the f irst shrink at 250 degrees was just fine. So was the second shrink at 300, o r so I thought. On the third and final shrink at 350 degrees, the iron went right through the ceconite. I threw the candy thermometer away, tore off t he remaining fabric, and started that piece over. Fortunately it was one of the small pieces. I then bought one of those little wheel style mechanical wire thermometers. It worked just fine. I'd concur with Scott about the e xtension cord. I had to use a longer cord when I covered my wings. I found that the temperatures on the iron were off by quite a bit when I used the s econd cord. Recalibrating from time to time is a good idea anyway, but espe cially so if you change cords. One last thing. You can find lots of perfec tly good old-style used irons at flea markets. Or do what I did. Buy your w ife a fancy new one. Take the old one out to the hangar. Ken > > > On Tue, Jun 17, 2014 at 9:43 PM, AircamperN11MS wrote: ity.org> >> >> Yes I got a little excited. Then I saw the other more tactful replies. Yo ur wife's iron may work. The trouble with most new irons are attorneys. Some won't get hot enough and others have a built in timer that shuts it off aft er a period of time. Get a candy thermometer to calibrate it. Also use the s ame extension cord every time so the temp are repeatable. Just mark the dial with marks you understand. Like maybe 1, 2 and 3 for the different settings you need. You may need to try a couple of different irons to find one you l ike. >> I'm glad you laughed rather than cry after reading my rant. >> >> Have fun. Covering was the best part most fun for me. >> >> -------- >> Scott Liefeld >> Flying N11MS since March 1972 >> Steel Tube >> C-85-12 >> Wire Wheels >> Brodhead in 1996 >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425067#425067 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ========== >> br> -List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol -List >> ========== >> MS - >> k">http://forums.matronics.com >> ========== >> e - >> -Matt Dralle, List Admin. >> t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> ========== > > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 18, 2014
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: tenpol-List:
Covering my plane was one of the most fun aspects of the project for me. I had never done it prior, so at first it seemed a little "involved." However , having done it with great success, I can say that it is quite easy and it only needs to be as "involved" as you allow it.- I used the Superflite l ight weight fabric, pinked tapes, flat stitch cord, home made needle, (weld ing rod) Eko Bond glue, 1" cheapest Home Depot type brush I could find... - I used our current home iron, (bought in the military some 24+ years ag o) and a cheap "laser" type thermometer. =0A=0AOne simple "tool" I made was for the cement. I glued a coffee can lid to the bottom of a Dixie cup for stability, then used another Dixie cup inside the first to put the glue in. After each glue session I just replaced the inner cup.=0A=0A=0AAnyhoot, on ce you get started you will quickly learn how to use the various tools and consumables, what works, what doesn't, good procedures, bad ideas, etc. It really isn't involved at all. =0A=0A-=0A=0AIf God is your co-pilot...swit ch seats. =0AMike Perez =0AKaretaker Aero =0ASTILL Building...=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 18, 2014
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Rudder Control horn location
Grant, attached are a few more pictures for you. It is hard to see, but the support for the white pulleys is cut at an angle along the top. This sets the pulley itself at the correct angle for the cables, but still keeps the wood piece flat on the sides to better gusset it to the fuselage. This same angle was cut on the bottom notches where the pulley bolt passes through the support. Note the use of plywood where screws/nuts/bolts are to be tightened against the soft spruce. The smaller triangle shaped pulley block was cut with compound angles, to again set the correct pulley angles. If you compare the pictures, you'll see this block is tapered both top/bottom and front/rear. The screws attaching the small tail wheel pulleys were attached using epoxy on the threads to prevent potentially backing out under vibration. (yet easily removed mechanically if necessary) The tail wheel pulleys are far enough away from the tail wheel horn that horn movement does not impart side-way cable movement at the pulley itself. Appropriate access ports are used in the fuselage fabric to gain access to these areas for inspection/maintenance . Not shown is the tail wheel itself. I designed my tail wheel such that the rudder maintains full travel without the tail wheel assembly binding or running out of travel. Yet it does not move so much that it would be squirrelly while rolling. (sensitivity) Tweaks to this can be made with the turnbuckles pictured. These T.B.s can also be used to adjust "neutral" setting if I find that the plane does not taxi straight, (aligned with the rudder) as well as to adjust the tension on the tail wheel springs. This set up is very smooth and seems to operate exceptionally good on the ground. If God is your co-pilot...switch seats. Mike Perez Karetaker Aero STILL Building... ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: tenpol-List:
From: "dgaldrich" <dgaldrich(at)embarqmail.com>
Date: Jun 18, 2014
Irons can be acquired relatively cheaply at the local resale shops. Most seem to have a shelf with 3 or 4 used ones sitting there. Find a wall outlet and see which one works. I think the Stewart people recommend at least a 1200 watt one. Your wife will appreciate it. If the truth be told, I found a better one than my wife had at the local Goodwill so she got it and I got her dinosaur. Everybody wins. Dave Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425086#425086 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Champ at 8T8
From: "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Jun 18, 2014
Steve; I believe that's Lou Viggiano, but check my spelling on that. I do not know him personally, but he's been around quite a while and I've seen his name and his work frequently. Also, don't make too big a deal of the fabric work. It's really quite rewarding and fun to do once you get into it, and when that fabric tautens up... it's happy times to watch the magic happen. Wish I was still there; I have two full-sized irons and one of the small ones for tight areas, too. Plus the long needle, cord, tapes. But ask around on the field, because there are plenty of other builders with fabric supplies just sitting there. -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425087#425087 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Champ at 8T8
From: "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Jun 18, 2014
I think I meant to say that the fabric supplies are just sitting there, not the other builders. No, wait... I think I was right the first time ;o) Check with John Latour and his building partner. They were working up at the EAA35 hangar and I believe their project is fabric-covered. Mr. Kuhlcouper is almost always out there, too. Wait! He *lives* there! -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425089#425089 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Covering
From: Douwe <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Date: Jun 18, 2014
I'd add some anti chafe tape to that list The covering on the tail is right in the slipstream and vibrates a ton. Cover the structure where it'll wear the covering. You'll also want a strip over each rib on the outside of the covering so the stitching doesn't tear thru You wife's iron will likely get something on it, don't ask how I learned this... Oh, and don't use a heat gun... Douwe Sent from my iPhone ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Covering
From: Gmail <gbacon67(at)gmail.com>
Date: Jun 18, 2014
I used an infrared thermometer gun to make sure the iron temp was good. Greg Bacon Mtn. Piet > On Jun 18, 2014, at 1:56 PM, Douwe wrote: > > > I'd add some anti chafe tape to that list > > The covering on the tail is right in the slipstream and vibrates a ton. Cover the structure where it'll wear the covering. > > You'll also want a strip over each rib on the outside of the covering so the stitching doesn't tear thru > > You wife's iron will likely get something on it, don't ask how I learned this... > > Oh, and don't use a heat gun... > > Douwe > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 18, 2014
Subject: Piper cub struts.
From: Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com>
I have a set of piper cub shortened struts. I have stripped and inspected them and will prime and paint them. There have been problems with corrosion inside and the FAA approved way to treat the insides is with Linseed oil. What is the experience/advice of the group? I like CorrosionX. I have used it in my Bonanza with good effect. Or one site advises WD40 first and then a waxy rust preventative like MAX WAX. Or perhaps CorrsionX Heavy duty. Or LPS3. Blue Skies, Steve D ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Piper cub struts.
From: Jack Textor <jack(at)textors.com>
Date: Jun 18, 2014
Steve I too have a set, look forward to help. Like should I use the larger o nes for the front? Sent from my iPad > On Jun 18, 2014, at 3:44 PM, Steven Dortch wro te: > > I have a set of piper cub shortened struts. I have stripped and inspecte d them and will prime and paint them. There have been problems with corrosi on inside and the FAA approved way to treat the insides is with Linseed oil. > What is the experience/advice of the group? I like CorrosionX. I have used it in my Bonanza with good effect. Or one site advises WD40 first and then a waxy rust preventative like MAX WAX. Or perhaps CorrsionX Heavy duty. Or LP S3. > > Blue Skies, > Steve D > > 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: model A engine
From: "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Jun 18, 2014
So, Dan's engine was built up by Richard Fallucca of Antique Engine Rebuilding in Skokie, Illinois. Info here: http://www.antiqueenginerebuilding.com/index.html I'm wondering if he might field a quick question on a phone call, asking about the recommended piston/cylinder clearance on these engines? The parts page on his website shows the Chevy pistons, so he's certainly familiar with their use in this application. My suggestion is to ask the question very generally, NOT as an airplane question. -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425110#425110 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 18, 2014
Subject: Re: Piper cub struts.
From: Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com>
The Photos I have looked at all have the big struts on the front. I will inspect these one more time with a light inside the strut. Blue Skies, Steve D. On Wed, Jun 18, 2014 at 7:27 PM, Jack Textor wrote: > Steve I too have a set, look forward to help. Like should I use the larger > ones for the front? > > Sent from my iPad > > On Jun 18, 2014, at 3:44 PM, Steven Dortch > wrote: > > I have a set of piper cub shortened struts. I have stripped and > inspected them and will prime and paint them. There have been problems > with corrosion inside and the FAA approved way to treat the insides is with > Linseed oil. > What is the experience/advice of the group? I like CorrosionX. I have used > it in my Bonanza with good effect. Or one site advises WD40 first and then > a waxy rust preventative like MAX WAX. Or perhaps CorrsionX Heavy duty. > Or LPS3. > > Blue Skies, > Steve D > > > * > > > * > > -- Blue Skies, Steve D ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Subject: Piet wing struts sizes---one man's choices
Date: Jun 19, 2014
SSBjb3BpZWQgdGhlIDQxMzAgc3RyZWFtbGluZWQgd2luZyBzdHJ1dCBtYXRlcmlhbCBzaXplcyB0 aGF0IEZyYW5rIFNyLiAmIEZyYW5rIEpyLiBQYXZsaWdhIHVzZWQgb24gdGhlaXIgUGlldGVucG9s LiAgICBUaGV5IHVzZWQgZmxvb2RzdG9jaw0KZnJvbSB0aGUgUGlwZXIgRmFjdG9yeSBpbiBMb2Nr aGF2ZW4gYWZ0ZXIgdGhlIGZhY3RvcnkgZ290IGZsb29kZWQuDQoNCk1pa2UgQy4NCk9oaW8NCg0K DQpbY2lkOmltYWdlMDAxLmpwZ0AwMUNGOEI5QS5DMUJGMkRGMF0NCg0K ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: model A engine
From: "bender" <dude(at)twc.com>
Date: Jun 19, 2014
Rich Built My engine too.. and I still feel like he does great work. I just got an email back from him and he says .003 and that's where mine were. So do I have a clearance problem ? I took the bad piston to a friend yesterday and just said "what do you think" he says it looks like it got tight. and the discussion went to A-65's and back to "open it up" and that a looser fit wouldn't hurt anything here are pics... labeled 1-2-3 #1 is nearest the prop jeff Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425131#425131 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/piston11_940.jpeg http://forums.matronics.com//files/piston03_930.jpeg http://forums.matronics.com//files/piston02_649.jpeg http://forums.matronics.com//files/piston1_206.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: model A engine
From: "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org>
Date: Jun 19, 2014
Hey, After looking at these pics. I am wondering if the rod bearing were put in the rods backwards? Was the bearing with the oil hole installed on the rod end, or in the cap end. The bearing with the oil hole should be installed in the rod side to provide oil to the piston pin and help cool the piston. It seems like a no brainer but I have seen stuff like this happen more than once. Worth checking, -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425136#425136 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: model A engine
From: "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org>
Date: Jun 19, 2014
With gaulding like that you will need to hone the block out before reassembly. Just doing that will give you more clearance. -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425137#425137 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: R&D into inexpensive components
From: "AG" <aglangerco(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Jun 19, 2014
Hi, I'm really excited about this trailer wheel idea. I'm currently building a Pietenpol (wooden landing gear) and I've seen the wire moto wheels/tire and they look great but - as a young self-employed person the cost is too much for me. The trailer wheels seem like a great idea! By the way - You said the trailer wheels might not look the best - actually I think with a little work they could actually look pretty cool! What type of brakes did you use? Do you have any recommendations on axle and hubs? This is my first plane so I hope you don't mind - but I'm learning to be rather shameless in begging for knowledge from more experienced builders - so any info/ideas you might have would be much appreciated. Thanks... Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425144#425144 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: model A engine
From: "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Jun 19, 2014
Curious... two rubbed at the widest point, the other was just the opposite... Baffled. Did you ever find out if they are cast or forged pistons? That could explain the need for more clearance. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425145#425145 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: model A engine
From: "Pietflyer1977" <rob(at)stoinoff.com>
Date: Jun 19, 2014
I have seen these same problems first hand. I have been working on building a new engine with the help of my engine builder and we have been worried about the new aftermarket "China" pistons. Decided to have Ross make new forged pistons and they said they need at least 9 thousandths wall to piston clearance. Also for a airplane running a prop he did not like how the thrust washers go in and the bearing clearance for the insert mains. We are changing all. He also said he can improve the oil system a lot which we are doing. Got a new Scat crankshaft and rods which are way better than other new overseas made balanced crankshafts. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425149#425149 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 19, 2014
Subject: Re: Covering
From: Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com>
OK So it need to get: Lightweight Ceconite (1.8OZ) Ceconite New Super Seam 1 QT (Or Eko Bond glue?) Ceconite Hand Thread 250, Stits Hand Sewing Thread? flat stitch cord 3"Curved Needle or home made needle, (welding rod) 2" Pinked tapes 1" cheapest Home Depot type brush I could find A good old iron and use the same extension cord every time. And mark the three settings. An IR thermometer. (I had one and it has sprouted legs. Also good to use if you have a bad plug to check for the cold jug) And one custom tool for the cement. glue a coffee can lid to the bottom of a Dixie cup for stability, then used another Dixie cup inside the first to put the glue in. After each glue session just replace the inner cup. and don't use a heat gun, no matter what. Anything else? Do I need the Ceconite manual? I would have loved to attend Oshkosh and a homebuilders class. Indeed I had planned on coming, but life intervened. Blue Skies, Steve D On Wed, Jun 18, 2014 at 2:08 PM, Gmail wrote: > > I used an infrared thermometer gun to make sure the iron temp was good. > > Greg Bacon > Mtn. Piet > > > On Jun 18, 2014, at 1:56 PM, Douwe wrote: > > > > > > > > I'd add some anti chafe tape to that list > > > > The covering on the tail is right in the slipstream and vibrates a ton. > Cover the structure where it'll wear the covering. > > > > You'll also want a strip over each rib on the outside of the covering so > the stitching doesn't tear thru > > > > You wife's iron will likely get something on it, don't ask how I > learned this... > > > > Oh, and don't use a heat gun... > > > > Douwe > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > > > > > > > -- Blue Skies, Steve D ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Covering
Date: Jun 19, 2014
Not easy to find, but there are covering video=99s on the EAA websitealong with a plethora of other stuff! Gary Boothe NX308MB From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steven Dortch Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2014 7:33 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Covering OK So it need to get: Lightweight Ceconite (1.8OZ) Ceconite New Super Seam 1 QT (Or Eko Bond glue?) Ceconite Hand Thread 250, Stits Hand Sewing Thread? flat stitch cord 3"Curved Needle or home made needle, (welding rod) 2" Pinked tapes 1" cheapest Home Depot type brush I could find A good old iron and use the same extension cord every time. And mark the three settings. An IR thermometer. (I had one and it has sprouted legs. Also good to use if you have a bad plug to check for the cold jug) And one custom tool for the cement. glue a coffee can lid to the bottom of a Dixie cup for stability, then used another Dixie cup inside the first to put the glue in. After each glue session just replace the inner cup. and don't use a heat gun, no matter what. Anything else? Do I need the Ceconite manual? I would have loved to attend Oshkosh and a homebuilders class. Indeed I had planned on coming, but life intervened. Blue Skies, Steve D On Wed, Jun 18, 2014 at 2:08 PM, Gmail wrote: I used an infrared thermometer gun to make sure the iron temp was good. Greg Bacon Mtn. Piet > On Jun 18, 2014, at 1:56 PM, Douwe wrote: > > > I'd add some anti chafe tape to that list > > The covering on the tail is right in the slipstream and vibrates a ton. Cover the structure where it'll wear the covering. > > You'll also want a strip over each rib on the outside of the covering so the stitching doesn't tear thru > > You wife's iron will likely get something on it, don't ask how I learned this... > > Oh, and don't use a heat gun... > > Douwe > > Sent from my iPhone > > br> -List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List MS - k">http://forums.matronics.com e - -Matt Dralle, List Admin. t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution -- Blue Skies, Steve D ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 20, 2014
Subject: Re: Covering
From: "Charles N. Campbell" <charlescampbell1924(at)gmail.com>
Ekobond glue. And get the Stewart videos. I believe anyone could do a good cover job after watching those videos a few times. On Thu, Jun 19, 2014 at 10:32 PM, Steven Dortch wrote: > OK So it need to get: > > Lightweight Ceconite (1.8OZ) > > Ceconite New Super Seam 1 QT (Or Eko Bond glue?) > > Ceconite Hand Thread 250, Stits Hand Sewing Thread? flat stitch cord > > 3"Curved Needle or home made needle, (welding rod) > > 2" Pinked tapes > > 1" cheapest Home Depot type brush I could find > > A good old iron and use the same extension cord every time. And mark the > three settings. > > An IR thermometer. (I had one and it has sprouted legs. Also good to use > if you have a bad plug to check for the cold jug) > > And one custom tool for the cement. glue a coffee can lid to the bottom > of a Dixie cup for stability, then used another Dixie cup inside the first > to put the glue in. After each glue session just replace the inner cup. > > and don't use a heat gun, no matter what. > > Anything else? > Do I need the Ceconite manual? I would have loved to attend Oshkosh and > a homebuilders class. Indeed I had planned on coming, but life intervened. > Blue Skies, > Steve D > > > On Wed, Jun 18, 2014 at 2:08 PM, Gmail wrote: > >> >> I used an infrared thermometer gun to make sure the iron temp was good. >> >> Greg Bacon >> Mtn. Piet >> >> > On Jun 18, 2014, at 1:56 PM, Douwe wrote: >> > >> douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> >> > >> > I'd add some anti chafe tape to that list >> > >> > The covering on the tail is right in the slipstream and vibrates a ton. >> Cover the structure where it'll wear the covering. >> > >> > You'll also want a strip over each rib on the outside of the covering >> so the stitching doesn't tear thru >> > >> > You wife's iron will likely get something on it, don't ask how I >> learned this... >> > >> > Oh, and don't use a heat gun... >> > >> > Douwe >> > >> > Sent from my iPhone >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >> >> ========== >> br> -List" target="_blank"> >> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List >> ========== >> MS - >> k">http://forums.matronics.com >> ========== >> e - >> -Matt Dralle, List Admin. >> t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> ========== >> >> >> >> > > > -- > Blue Skies, > Steve D > > * > > > * > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: model A engine
From: "bender" <dude(at)twc.com>
Date: Jun 20, 2014
The Bearings are in the right position.. the pistons are cast. I do understand the way the forged pistons grow more than cast pistons requiring more clearance. I'm going to open up the bores and try it again. I like the idea of running the engine in my AA truck except for the double engine change. I guess really long ground runs will be in order. Jeff Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425160#425160 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Covering
From: "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Jun 20, 2014
Steve; Note that there is a distinction between "rib lace cord" and "sewing thread" in the covering supplies. The rib lace cord is heavier. Don't use the lighter thread for rib lacing. -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425167#425167 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 20, 2014
Subject: Re: Covering
From: John Kuhfahl <kuhlcouper(at)gmail.com>
steve, call louie vigiano--661-0841--80 year old wealth of knowledge On Wed, Jun 18, 2014 at 1:56 PM, Douwe wrote: > > I'd add some anti chafe tape to that list > > The covering on the tail is right in the slipstream and vibrates a ton. > Cover the structure where it'll wear the covering. > > You'll also want a strip over each rib on the outside of the covering so > the stitching doesn't tear thru > > You wife's iron will likely get something on it, don't ask how I learned > this... > > Oh, and don't use a heat gun... > > Douwe > > Sent from my iPhone > > -- John Kuhfahl, Lt Col USAF (Ret), President, KUHLCOUPER LLC ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Struts
From: Scott Knowlton <flyingscott_k(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Jun 21, 2014
For those builders who do not yet have struts for their project I know of a very nice set that are available in Ontario, Canada. They were purpose built for a plans built Pietenpol with .035 streamlined 4130 and all four have proper aircraft fork ends. They were epoxy primed and are painted black. The aircraft owner has opted for J3 style sealed struts instead so these (according to the AME who is building the Piet) are surplus to the owner's requirements. I know the AME and can put anyone interested in touch with him for more details. Contact me off list if interested. Happy flying this weekend! Scott Knowlton Builder in Burlington Ontario Sent from my iPhone ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: model A engine
From: "bender" <dude(at)twc.com>
Date: Jun 21, 2014
I'm not sure.. the new ones I just got in are Sealed Power. and they only measure about .002 clearance. SP only list the min clearance as .001 and no max listed. and I'm not giving up yet but I have an A-65 in the waiting for me. Jeff Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425209#425209 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: model A engine
From: "BYD" <billsayre(at)ymail.com>
Date: Jun 21, 2014
I have what I consider a bit more traditional Model-A engine in that it has round pistons and babbit bearings but when I first went to start it, it was extremely tight and after it ran for a bit you could barely pull the prop through. In researching break-in, many spoke of running the engine in for quite a while on the ground and a couple said about 20-hours minimum. I ran mine at various RPMs during each session (from 30 to 60 minutes) until I had 22-hours on it and by that time I had tweaked all the adjustments and when I first flew I felt very confident in the engine. It may have been over-kill, but Im happy I did it that way. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425210#425210 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Hinge Tail Feathers
From: "namrednos" <namrednos(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Jun 21, 2014
I have decided to use .080 4130 with #10 100deg flat head screws and locking nuts. The welded plans style hinge will be easer to cover with the hinge installed. Thanks to everyone who gave me so much help. !? -------- Scott Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425214#425214 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 21, 2014
Subject: Re: Covering
From: Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com>
Douwe, exactly where do you suggest the Anti chafe tape? applied to any wood It won't be glued to? Blue Skies, Steve D On Wed, Jun 18, 2014 at 1:56 PM, Douwe wrote: > > I'd add some anti chafe tape to that list > > The covering on the tail is right in the slipstream and vibrates a ton. > Cover the structure where it'll wear the covering. > > You'll also want a strip over each rib on the outside of the covering so > the stitching doesn't tear thru > > You wife's iron will likely get something on it, don't ask how I learned > this... > > Oh, and don't use a heat gun... > > Douwe > > Sent from my iPhone > > -- Blue Skies, Steve D ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 21, 2014
Subject: drain grommets
From: Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com>
I did not order drain grommets from Aircraft spruce, I there a good replacement? How far out to space them? There were grommets on trailing edge of the bottom edge. -- Blue Skies, Steve D ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 21, 2014
Subject: biased ply tape around edges
From: Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com>
I ordered linear pinked tape. Should I get some bias pinked tape for the edges? -- Blue Skies, Steve D ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 21, 2014
Subject: Re: drain grommets
From: Ryan Mueller <ryan(at)rmueller.org>
Ya know, with all these questions you have, it's too bad there's not some kind of a printed collection of instructions, tips, tricks, or hints....a "manual" of sorts, available for purchase from the manufacturer.... Sent from my mobile device On Jun 21, 2014 5:23 PM, "Steven Dortch" wrote: > > I did not order drain grommets from Aircraft spruce, I there a good > replacement? How far out to space them? There were grommets on trailing > edge of the bottom edge. > -- > Blue Skies, > Steve D > > * > > > * > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 21, 2014
From: shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: drain grommets
you don't need them if you have 2 layers of fabric where you need the holes (the base fabric, and the tapes).- I put them on the top wing of the Bab y Lakes, but opted out on the bottoms, just melted holes with the soldering iron. =0A=0A=0AOn Saturday, June 21, 2014 7:02 PM, Ryan Mueller wrote:=0A =0A=0A=0AYa know, with all these questions you have, i t's too bad there's not some kind of a printed collection of instructions, tips, tricks, or hints....a "manual" of sorts, available for purchase from the manufacturer.... =0ASent from my mobile device =0AOn Jun 21, 2014 5:23 PM, "Steven Dortch" wrote:=0A=0A=0A>I did not o rder drain grommets from Aircraft spruce, I there a good replacement? How f ar out to space them? There were grommets on trailing edge of the bottom ed ge. =0A>-- =0A>=0A>Blue Skies,=0A>Steve D=0A> =0A>" target="_blank">http ://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List=0Atp://forums.matronics.com ========= ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 21, 2014
From: shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: biased ply tape around edges
Bias is only needed if you are going around a curve like a wingtip bow or t he trailing edge of the rudder, and its more expensive than straight tape. - If at all possible try put the bias tapes on without the sewed seam sho wing, it makes for a clean looking cover job.- Put the sewed seam out of plain sight (the bottom of a rudder etc) when possible.- The sewed seam i s roughly every 5 or 6 ft of the bias tapes, cant remember exactly.- It i s there because the tapes are cut out of a bolt of fabric on a 45 deg. angl e, and the bolts are only 5 or 6 ft wide.- I was able to tape up most of the curves on my bipe with out needing to have a piece longer than 5-6 ft, so I cut the seam off the roll and started a new section.- You can also u se an iron to walk the bias-tape around the curve, without needing to not ch the tape.- Covering is pretty fun, it was the 2 million coats of spray ing dope I got tired of.=0A-=0AEnough of my gibberish,=0A-=0AShad- =0A=0A=0AOn Saturday, June 21, 2014 6:23 PM, Steven Dortch @gmail.com> wrote:=0A =0A=0A=0AI ordered linear pinked tape. Should I get some bias pinked tape for the edges? =0A=0A-- =0A=0ABlue Skies,=0ASteve D ================= ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <jack(at)bedfordlandings.com>
Subject: drain grommets
Date: Jun 21, 2014
Steve, you have so many questions on covering. I suggest you buy the Ceconite manual, or the Stewart System manual, or the PolyFiber manual (I think they're all written by the same fellow, Jon Goldbaum), and READ it. Every question you've asked is answered in complete detail in these manuals. Covering is the most fun part of building an airplane, but you need to learn the process yourself. The best way to learn is to take a class such as the EAA teaches, or at Oshkosh or Sun 'n' Fun. Short of that the best thing is to buy the manual and read it cover to cover. If there is someone knowledgeable nearby who can teach you step by step, that would be great. Asking for step by step help on the internet is a poor substitute for one of these other methods. Good luck with your repairs! Jack Phillips NX899JP Smith Mountain Lake (W91), Virginia _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steven Dortch Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2014 6:15 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: drain grommets I did not order drain grommets from Aircraft spruce, I there a good replacement? How far out to space them? There were grommets on trailing edge of the bottom edge. -- Blue Skies, Steve D ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: drain grommets
From: "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Jun 21, 2014
Here is the info I think that Ryan may have been alluding to, although he may have been referring to some other manual. His true meaning was lost on me in his attempt at humor. http://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/advisory_circulars/index.cfm/go/document.information/documentid/99861 -------- Semper Fi, Terry Hand Athens, GA USMC, USMCR, ATP BVD DVD PDQ BBQ Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425235#425235 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/chapter_02_dragged_201.pdf ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 21, 2014
Subject: Re: drain grommets
From: Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com>
OK guys! I ordered the Ceconite manual when I ordered the covering materiel. My question was do I need to order grommets as well? Blue Skies, Steve D On Sat, Jun 21, 2014 at 7:55 PM, Jack Phillips wrote: > Steve, you have so many questions on covering. I suggest you buy the > Ceconite manual, or the Stewart System manual, or the PolyFiber manual (I > think they=99re all written by the same fellow, Jon Goldbaum), and READ it. > Every question you=99ve asked is answered in complete detail in the se manuals. > > > Covering is the most fun part of building an airplane, but you need to > learn the process yourself. The best way to learn is to take a class suc h > as the EAA teaches, or at Oshkosh or Sun =98n=99 Fun. Short of that the best > thing is to buy the manual and read it cover to cover. If there is someo ne > knowledgeable nearby who can teach you step by step, that would be great. > Asking for step by step help on the internet is a poor substitute for one > of these other methods. > > > Good luck with your repairs! > > > Jack Phillips > > NX899JP > > Smith Mountain Lake (W91), Virginia > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto: > owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Steven Dortch > *Sent:* Saturday, June 21, 2014 6:15 PM > *To:* pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: drain grommets > > > I did not order drain grommets from Aircraft spruce, I there a good > replacement? How far out to space them? There were grommets on trailing > edge of the bottom edge. > -- > > Blue Skies, > > Steve D > > > *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List * > > *http://forums.matronics.com * > > *http://www.matronics.com/contribution * > > > * > =========== .matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List> =========== =========== om/contribution> =========== > > * > > -- Blue Skies, Steve D ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 21, 2014
Subject: Re: drain grommets
From: Ryan Mueller <ryan(at)rmueller.org>
That is a good piece of approved data to have as well, but in this case I was referring to the Ceconite manual that Steve questioned needing before, available for purchase at Aircraft Spruce, Wicks, Univair, et al for $10 On Sat, Jun 21, 2014 at 8:59 PM, jarheadpilot82 wrote: > jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com> > > Here is the info I think that Ryan may have been alluding to, although he > may have been referring to some other manual. His true meaning was lost on > me in his attempt at humor. > > > http://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/advisory_circulars/index.cfm/go/document.information/documentid/99861 > > -------- > Semper Fi, > > Terry Hand > Athens, GA > > USMC, USMCR, ATP > BVD DVD PDQ BBQ > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425235#425235 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/chapter_02_dragged_201.pdf > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 21, 2014
Subject: Re: drain grommets
From: Ken Bickers <bickers.ken(at)gmail.com>
Steve, you don't need the grommets. You can just burn a small hole at each place where you want to be able to drain water, using an electric woodburning pen. You'll find that it is easier, faster, and (to my eyes) tidier than gluing on a grommet. Even if you glue the grommet on, you'll still have to burn a hole with an electric woodburning pen, or something similar. Best of luck, Ken On Sat, Jun 21, 2014 at 8:13 PM, Steven Dortch wrote: > OK guys! I ordered the Ceconite manual when I ordered the covering > materiel. My question was do I need to order grommets as well? > > Blue Skies, > Steve D > > > On Sat, Jun 21, 2014 at 7:55 PM, Jack Phillips > wrote: > >> Steve, you have so many questions on covering. I suggest you buy the >> Ceconite manual, or the Stewart System manual, or the PolyFiber manual ( I >> think they=99re all written by the same fellow, Jon Goldbaum), and READ it. >> Every question you=99ve asked is answered in complete detail in th ese manuals. >> >> >> >> Covering is the most fun part of building an airplane, but you need to >> learn the process yourself. The best way to learn is to take a class su ch >> as the EAA teaches, or at Oshkosh or Sun =98n=99 Fun. Short of that the >> best thing is to buy the manual and read it cover to cover. If there is >> someone knowledgeable nearby who can teach you step by step, that would be >> great. Asking for step by step help on the internet is a poor substitut e >> for one of these other methods. >> >> >> >> Good luck with your repairs! >> >> >> >> Jack Phillips >> >> NX899JP >> >> Smith Mountain Lake (W91), Virginia >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> *From:* owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto: >> owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Steven Dortch >> *Sent:* Saturday, June 21, 2014 6:15 PM >> *To:* pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >> *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: drain grommets >> >> >> >> >> I did not order drain grommets from Aircraft spruce, I there a good >> replacement? How far out to space them? There were grommets on trailing >> edge of the bottom edge. >> -- >> >> Blue Skies, >> >> Steve D >> >> >> >> >> >> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List * >> >> *http://forums.matronics.com * >> >> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution * >> >> >> >> * >> >> " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List >> tp://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com> >> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> >> * >> >> > > > -- > Blue Skies, > Steve D > > * > =========== .matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List> =========== =========== om/contribution> =========== > > * > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 21, 2014
Subject: Wing attachments
From: Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com>
Pietenpeople, I was looking over the Center section on my Piet with John K. and he pointed out that the holes on the center section left rear attachement are significantly larger than the other three brakets. I checked the wing. It also is an order larger. Does anyone know if there is a reason for this? On my 1959 Cessna 150, the rear wing attach bolt went into a cam )basically a hollow bolt that you could adjust so that you could adjust for washout. Is this similar? or perhaps it was simply drilled too big so they went with it. Blue Skies, Steve D -- Blue Skies, Steve D ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 21, 2014
From: shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Wing attachments
They probably used a bigger drill bit there. =0A=0A=0AOn Saturday, June 21, 2014 11:59 PM, Steven Dortch wrote:=0A =0A=0A =0APietenpeople, =0AI was looking over the Center section on my Piet with J ohn=0AK. and he pointed out that the holes on the center section left rear =0Aattachement are significantly larger than the other three brakets. I che cked=0Athe wing. It also is an order larger. Does anyone know if there is a reason for=0Athis? =0A-=0AOn my 1959 Cessna 150, the rear wing attach bo lt went into a=0Acam )basically a hollow bolt that you could adjust so that you could adjust for=0Awashout. Is this similar? or perhaps it was simply drilled too big so they went=0Awith it. =0A-=0ABlue Skies,=0ASteve D=0A ==== ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 21, 2014
From: shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Wing attachments
Just make sure you still have some meat left on the fitting, Edge distance from the hole to the- edge of the fitting.- Post a photo if you can, it 's worth a 1000 words.- I have had to upsize holes due to- elongation, it's safe as long as the strength of the fitting is not compromised.=0A- =0AShad =0A=0A=0AOn Sunday, June 22, 2014 12:51 AM, shad bell wrote:=0A =0A=0A=0AThey probably used a bigger drill bit there. =0A=0A=0AOn Saturday, June 21, 2014 11:59 PM, Steven Dortch wrote:=0A =0A=0A=0APietenpeople, =0AI was looking over the C enter section on my Piet with John=0AK. and he pointed out that the holes o n the center section left rear=0Aattachement are significantly larger than the other three brakets. I checked=0Athe wing. It also is an order larger. Does anyone know if there is a reason for=0Athis? =0A-=0AOn my 1959 Cessn a 150, the rear wing attach bolt went into a=0Acam )basically a hollow bolt that you could adjust so that you could adjust for=0Awashout. Is this simi lar? or perhaps it was simply drilled too big so they went=0Awith it. =0A ============= ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: drain grommets
From: danhelsper(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 22, 2014
I did not use grommets either. Just do as Ken B. says. It makes a nice clea n integrous hole. Dan Helsper Puryear, TN -----Original Message----- From: Ken Bickers <bickers.ken(at)gmail.com> Sent: Sat, Jun 21, 2014 10:04 pm Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: drain grommets Steve, you don't need the grommets. You can just burn a small hole at each place where you want to be able to drain water, using an electric woodburn ing pen. You'll find that it is easier, faster, and (to my eyes) tidier th an gluing on a grommet. Even if you glue the grommet on, you'll still have to burn a hole with an electric woodburning pen, or something similar. Best of luck, Ken On Sat, Jun 21, 2014 at 8:13 PM, Steven Dortch wrote: OK guys! I ordered the Ceconite manual when I ordered the covering materiel . My question was do I need to order grommets as well? Blue Skies, Steve D On Sat, Jun 21, 2014 at 7:55 PM, Jack Phillips w rote: Steve, you have so many questions oncovering. I suggest you buy the Ceconi te manual, or the Stewart Systemmanual, or the PolyFiber manual (I think th ey=99re all written by the samefellow, Jon Goldbaum), and READ it. E very question you=99ve asked isanswered in complete detail in these m anuals. Covering is the most fun part of buildingan airplane, but you need to learn the process yourself. The best way tolearn is to take a class such as the EAA teaches, or at Oshkosh or Sun =98n=99 Fun. Shortof that t he best thing is to buy the manual and read it cover to cover. If there is someone knowledgeable nearby who can teach you step by step, thatwould be g reat. Asking for step by step help on the internet is a poorsubstitute for one of these other methods. Good luck with your repairs! Jack Phillips NX899JP Smith Mountain Lake (W91), Virginia From:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list- server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steven Dortch Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2014 6:15PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: draingrommets I did not order drain grommets from Aircraft spruce, I there a goodreplacem ent? How far out to space them? There were grommets on trailing edge ofthe bottom edge. -- Blue Skies, Steve D http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List tp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution -- Blue Skies, Steve D " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List tp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Struts
From: Scott Knowlton <flyingscott_k(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Jun 22, 2014
Small error in my post below. The wall thickness of the struts is .065, not .035. Sorry Scott K. Sent from my iPhone > On Jun 21, 2014, at 7:23 AM, "Scott Knowlton" wrote: > > > For those builders who do not yet have struts for their project I know of a very nice set that are available in Ontario, Canada. They were purpose built for a plans built Pietenpol with .035 streamlined 4130 and all four have proper aircraft fork ends. They were epoxy primed and are painted black. The aircraft owner has opted for J3 style sealed struts instead so these (according to the AME who is building the Piet) are surplus to the owner's requirements. > I know the AME and can put anyone interested in touch with him for more details. Contact me off list if interested. > Happy flying this weekend! > > Scott Knowlton > Builder in Burlington Ontario > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 22, 2014
From: Bill <wemidy(at)cox.net>
Subject: Any Piet builders in the Rhode Island area?
Anyone building an Air Camper in the Rhode Island area. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jeff Martin <jammerrv8(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Any Piet builders in the Rhode Island area?
Date: Jun 22, 2014
Eaa chapter 130 Danbury ct is building one . Not exactly close to you but may be helpfull to you . Jeff Martin > On Jun 22, 2014, at 11:21 AM, Bill wrote: > > > Anyone building an Air Camper in the Rhode Island area. > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: drain grommets
From: "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Jun 22, 2014
I was going to get all fancy and install "seaplane grommets" when I did my fabric repairs. However, after getting them and seeing what I had, I realized that operating a seaplane in spray from the chop created by floats cutting through waves is a different situation. In that case, plain grommets or holes in the underside of the trailing edge of the control surfaces will tend to catch as much water as they drain, so seaplane grommets have little boat-tails or keels on them that shield the grommet from the oncoming airstream and only let water drain aft in the slipstream. These are overkill unless you're truly operating a seaplane. And to add one more data point along with the others who have chimed in, the drain holes on the control surfaces on 41CC are melted in with a soldering pencil, through the double-thick area where the finishing tape goes over the fabric right at the trailing edge of each aileron or elevator before the aftmost piece of wood on each. -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425310#425310 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 23, 2014
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: drain grommets
The Stewart Systems intel is all free and available to view/download here: http://www.stewartsystems.aero/support.aspx Even if you use another type of covering material/system, there is plenty of good information here to learn from. If God is your co-pilot...switch seats. Mike Perez Karetaker Aero STILL Building... ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: drain grommets
From: "womenfly2" <Love2Fly.KAP(at)gmail.com>
Date: Jun 23, 2014
You can go to a hardware store an pick up some aluminum flat washers for a No. 1/4" bolt (you want a 1/4" ID min.), they work great. I used brass grommets, the ones use for tents and tarps, crimp to a 2" dia patch then glue to the fabric, then cut out the hole after painting. Do you need grommets called drain holes, yes. They let the structure breath and let any condensation vent to the outside air. Use only seaplane ones on seaplanes. Hope this helps. WF2 -------- Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425312#425312 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 24, 2014
Subject: Re: drain grommets
From: "Charles N. Campbell" <charlescampbell1924(at)gmail.com>
I like the brass grommet idea. after gluing the grommet and patch to the fabric, do you cover with another patch before painting? Chuck On Mon, Jun 23, 2014 at 7:16 AM, womenfly2 wrote: > > You can go to a hardware store an pick up some aluminum flat washers for a > No. 1/4" bolt (you want a 1/4" ID min.), they work great. I used brass > grommets, the ones use for tents and tarps, crimp to a 2" dia patch then > glue to the fabric, then cut out the hole after painting. > > Do you need grommets called drain holes, yes. They let the structure > breath and let any condensation vent to the outside air. Use only seaplane > ones on seaplanes. > > Hope this helps. > WF2 > > -------- > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425312#425312 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 24, 2014
Subject: Re: drain grommets
From: "Andre B. Charvet" <bencharvet(at)gmail.com>
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Subject: Slick 4000 series mags
From: woodflier <woodflier(at)aol.com>
Date: Jun 24, 2014
Well, I hope I didn't jump the wrong way. When I build my Piet, I bought tw o mags from a guy in my EAA chapter, one was a Slick 4333, the other a Slic k 4003. The 4003 is one of the old 'throw away' mags. That mag has gone bad and there's no replacement parts or way to overhaul it. I found a 4003 onl ine, listed as 'surplus unused' for $500. But I got to thinking that the ma g has to be at least 35 to 40 years old and opted to spend twice that for a new 4333 which can be overhauled when the time comes. I hated to spend that kind of $$ but got to thinking about those times over West Virginia where was no place to land except the trees on the side of a mountain and opted for a bit more peace of mind. Sorry, just practicing my " 'Splainin' myself" speech for my wife. Matt Paxton Piet NX629ML Fairfield, VA ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <jack(at)bedfordlandings.com>
Subject: Slick 4000 series mags
Date: Jun 24, 2014
Matt, I've got a pair of Slick 4333's on mine and have had trouble free service for 300+ hours. Since both are impulse, it's very easy to start too. Jack Phillips NX899JP Smith Mountain Lake (W91), Virginia _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of woodflier Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2014 12:52 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Slick 4000 series mags Well, I hope I didn't jump the wrong way. When I build my Piet, I bought two mags from a guy in my EAA chapter, one was a Slick 4333, the other a Slick 4003. The 4003 is one of the old 'throw away' mags. That mag has gone bad and there's no replacement parts or way to overhaul it. I found a 4003 online, listed as 'surplus unused' for $500. But I got to thinking that the mag has to be at least 35 to 40 years old and opted to spend twice that for a new 4333 which can be overhauled when the time comes. I hated to spend that kind of $$ but got to thinking about those times over West Virginia where was no place to land except the trees on the side of a mountain and opted for a bit more peace of mind. Sorry, just practicing my " 'Splainin' myself" speech for my wife. Matt Paxton Piet NX629ML Fairfield, VA ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Slick 4000 series mags
From: woodflier <woodflier(at)aol.com>
Date: Jun 24, 2014
That's good to hear. I think about that route over the mountains to Beckley and feel good about my decision. I've had no trouble at all out of the rig ht mag, the 4333. I got to thinking how old that coil was in the 4003 for s ale and decided that peace of mind was worth a few hundred bucks. By the way, with some real smoke oil, I'm smoking up a storm. Matt -----Original Message----- From: Jack Phillips <jack(at)bedfordlandings.com> Sent: Tue, Jun 24, 2014 3:49 pm Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Slick 4000 series mags Matt, I=99ve got a pair of Slick 4333=99son mine and have had t rouble free service for 300+ hours. Since both areimpulse, it=99s ve ry easy to start too. Jack Phillips NX899JP Smith Mountain Lake (W91), Virginia From:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list- server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of woodflier Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2014 12:52PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Slick4000 series mags Well, I hope I didn't jump the wrong way.When I build my Piet, I bought two mags from a guy in my EAA chapter, one was aSlick 4333, the other a Slick 4003. The 4003 is one of the old 'throw away'mags. That mag has gone bad an d there's no replacement parts or way to overhaulit. I found a 4003 online, listed as 'surplus unused' for $500. But I got tothinking that the mag has to be at least 35 to 40 years old and opted to spendtwice that for a new 4 333 which can be overhauled when the time comes. I hated to spend that kind of $$ but got to thinking about those times over West Virginia where was no place to land except the trees on the side of am ountain and opted for a bit more peace of mind. Sorry, just practicing my " 'Splainin' myself" speech for my wife. Matt Paxton Piet NX629ML Fairfield, VA http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Slick 4000 series mags
From: glenschweizer(at)yahoo.com
Date: Jun 24, 2014
Hey Matt If she goes with you on one of those flights where there's nothin but t rees and mountains, you'll have a lot less splainin to do. Sent from my iPhone > On Jun 24, 2014, at 12:46 PM, "Jack Phillips" w rote: > > Matt, I=99ve got a pair of Slick 4333=99s on mine and have had trouble free service for 300+ hours. Since both are impulse, it=99s v ery easy to start too. > > Jack Phillips > NX899JP > Smith Mountain Lake (W91), Virginia > > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-li st-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of woodflier > Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2014 12:52 PM > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Slick 4000 series mags > > Well, I hope I didn't jump the wrong way. When I build my Piet, I bought t wo mags from a guy in my EAA chapter, one was a Slick 4333, the other a Slic k 4003. The 4003 is one of the old 'throw away' mags. That mag has gone bad a nd there's no replacement parts or way to overhaul it. I found a 4003 online , listed as 'surplus unused' for $500. But I got to thinking that the mag ha s to be at least 35 to 40 years old and opted to spend twice that for a new 4 333 which can be overhauled when the time comes. > > I hated to spend that kind of $$ but got to thinking about those times ove r West Virginia where was no place to land except the trees on the side of a mountain and opted for a bit more peace of mind. > > Sorry, just practicing my " 'Splainin' myself" speech for my wife. > > Matt Paxton > Piet NX629ML > Fairfield, VA > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > http://forums.matronics.com > http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > > 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Covering
From: Douwe <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Date: Jun 24, 2014
Steve Just use anti chafe on any wood with an edge or a protrusion that'll wear thru fabric. Too much is better than too little, especially if using lightweight fabric Never understood why you'd go the trouble of grommets when burning holes is so easy and neat Douwe Sent from my iPhone ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: model A engine
From: "bender" <dude(at)twc.com>
Date: Jun 25, 2014
So my plan is to Hone out the cylinders.. .005 doesn't seem too big to most of the folks I've talked to, then run it a lot on the ground. I did just buy an A65 and did some calculations. It look like the engine mount for the 65 would work out with W&B at about 16 inches long and I would save a ton of weight. My engine with water and oil ready to fly is 265 lbs . My plane weighs in at 662 lbs empty including oil and water and with a continental would be around 612 if I figured right. Man I love the A it just looks and sounds right. I'm not giving up yet but hope that if the 65 is sitting in the corner the A will work this time.. Jeff Faith Lou KY Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425499#425499 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: model A engine
From: danhelsper(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 25, 2014
Man Jeff, 662 lbs. is very light for an A-powered Piet. Mine is 717. Rambo 's is 717. Get the A-65 and put it in the corner.....make sure it is facing the action so it can see everything....run the hell out of the A on the gr ound and then go fly. See what happens. Stay over the runway for awhile. Af ter all, you are an experienced glider pilot :O) Dan Helsper Puryear (pronounced with three full syllables.....PER'-EE-ER) TN. -----Original Message----- From: bender <dude(at)twc.com> Sent: Wed, Jun 25, 2014 4:33 pm Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: model A engine So my plan is to Hone out the cylinders.. .005 doesn't seem too big to most of the folks I've talked to, then run it a lot on the ground. I did just buy a n A65 and did some calculations. It look like the engine mount for the 65 would w ork out with W&B at about 16 inches long and I would save a ton of weight. My e ngine with water and oil ready to fly is 265 lbs . My plane weighs in at 662 lbs empty including oil and water and with a continental would be around 612 if I fig ured right. Man I love the A it just looks and sounds right. I'm not giving up y et but hope that if the 65 is sitting in the corner the A will work this time. . Jeff Faith Lou KY Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425499#425499 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: engine listing
Date: Jun 25, 2014
Pieters=3B We are trying to wrap up the "all Piet" issue of Contact! Magazine in time for Brodhead and AirVenture this year=85 the 85th anniversary of the Air Ca mper design. Someone had come up with a listing of all the different types of engines that have been used on this airplane and had posted it to the l ist=2C but I can't seem to find it. If someone could please either re-post it here or email it to me off-list=2C I would appreciate it. Thanks=2C and here's to more low 'n' slow flying this summer! Oscar ZunigaMedford=2C ORAir Camper NX41CC "Scout"A75 powerMach 0.12 cruise ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Coulda, Ca Old Time Fly In..July 19
From: "Ray Krause" <Raykrause(at)frontiernet.net>
Date: Jun 25, 2014
i would like to invite everyone to our Old Time Fly In in Colusa (O08) on July 19, 2014. We usually have about 100 aircraft of all vintages and makes. free breakfast to all who fly in, lots of raffle prizes. Fuel will be sold AT COST! We have lots of home builts ,there were three Pietenpols last year. Come early and leave before it gets hot! If you can get here by 7-7:30, I will arrange to have all the Piets park together. Prizes for the best, oldest and furthest away. Come and be my guest! Ray Krause SkyScout about ready to cover...[/b] Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425513#425513 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 25, 2014
Subject: Re: engine listing
From: John Fay <jfay1950(at)gmail.com>
Oscar, Here is the list that I came up with when we did the posting several months ago. I have 45 different engines on the list that are pretty well confirmed. If anyone can lend anymore information that will make the list more accurate, I would appreciate it. I am very interested in finding which Toyota engines were used on those two Piets in New Zealand, and I know that some guys in Russia built a Piet that flew ( I saw a video on you tube, I think). I am curious what engine they used. *Pietenpol Engines* Continental 50 hp A-65 C-65 A-75 A-80 C-85 C-90 O-200 Twin 65 hp Continental Industrial Engine Lycoming 50 hp O-145 65 hp O-235 GPU Franklin 50 hp 65 hp 90 hp Ford Model A Model B Flat head V-8 Escort engine Cortina engine Fiesta engine Funk 200 standard 200 inverted Wilksch Airmotive WAM-100 diesel Warner radial 145 hp LeBlond radial Salmson radial Kinner radial Velie radial Rotec radial Lambert radial Mikron Rotax 912S Chevrolet 2.5L (Iron Duke) Buick V-8 Corvair Toyota (I don't remember which one, but there was a pic a few months ago of two Piets in New Zealand who were powered by Toyotas) Toyota 2C Turbo Diesel Subaru Turbo Subaru Geo/Suzuki 2300 cc Mercedes Diesel Mitsubishi *Soon to be* BMW K100 motorcycle engine *Used on Pietenpol Scout* Model T Chevrolet Vega (Was there a successful Volkswagen? Was a Vega engine ever used on an aircamper?) Unconfirmed: Dodge 4 cyl. Inline Ford Falcon inverted straight six ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Coulda, Ca Old Time Fly In..July 19
From: Gary Boothe <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Date: Jun 25, 2014
Rope a spot off for me! Gary Sent from my iPhone > On Jun 25, 2014, at 7:30 PM, "Ray Krause" wrote: > > > i would like to invite everyone to our Old Time Fly In in Colusa (O08) on July 19, 2014. We usually have about 100 aircraft of all vintages and makes. free breakfast to all who fly in, lots of raffle prizes. Fuel will be sold AT COST! > > We have lots of home builts ,there were three Pietenpols last year. Come early and leave before it gets hot! If you can get here by 7-7:30, I will arrange to have all the Piets park together. Prizes for the best, oldest and furthest away. > > Come and be my guest! > > Ray Krause > SkyScout about ready to cover...[/b] > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425513#425513 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ray Krause <raykrause(at)frontiernet.net>
Subject: Re: Coulda, Ca Old Time Fly In..July 19
Date: Jun 25, 2014
Great, Gary! If it is not too hot, please be my guest during the fly in. but you will probably want to leave before it gets too hot. Will love to see you. Ray Sent from my iPad > On Jun 25, 2014, at 8:51 PM, Gary Boothe wrote: > > > Rope a spot off for me! > > Gary > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Jun 25, 2014, at 7:30 PM, "Ray Krause" wrote: >> >> >> i would like to invite everyone to our Old Time Fly In in Colusa (O08) on July 19, 2014. We usually have about 100 aircraft of all vintages and makes. free breakfast to all who fly in, lots of raffle prizes. Fuel will be sold AT COST! >> >> We have lots of home builts ,there were three Pietenpols last year. Come early and leave before it gets hot! If you can get here by 7-7:30, I will arrange to have all the Piets park together. Prizes for the best, oldest and furthest away. >> >> Come and be my guest! >> >> Ray Krause >> SkyScout about ready to cover...[/b] >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425513#425513 > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 26, 2014
Subject: Re: engine listing
From: Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com>
Don't forget the gentleman experimenting with the Jeep engine. Blue Skies, Steve D. On Wed, Jun 25, 2014 at 10:28 PM, John Fay wrote: > Oscar, > > Here is the list that I came up with when we did the posting several > months ago. > I have 45 different engines on the list that are pretty well confirmed. > If anyone can lend anymore information that will make the list more > accurate, I would appreciate it. I am very interested in finding which > Toyota engines were used on those two Piets in New Zealand, and I know that > some guys in Russia built a Piet that flew ( I saw a video on you tube, I > think). I am curious what engine they used. > > > *Pietenpol Engines* > > Continental 50 hp > > A-65 > C-65 > > A-75 > A-80 > > C-85 > C-90 > O-200 > Twin 65 hp > > Continental Industrial Engine > > Lycoming 50 hp O-145 > > 65 hp > O-235 > GPU > > Franklin 50 hp > > 65 hp > > 90 hp > > > Ford Model A > Model B > Flat head V-8 > Escort engine > Cortina engine > Fiesta engine > > Funk 200 standard > 200 inverted > > Wilksch Airmotive WAM-100 diesel > Warner radial 145 hp > LeBlond radial > > Salmson radial > > Kinner radial > Velie radial > Rotec radial > Lambert radial > Mikron > > Rotax 912S > > Chevrolet 2.5L (Iron Duke) > Buick V-8 > Corvair > Toyota (I don't remember which one, but there was a pic a few months ago > of > two Piets in New Zealand who were > powered by Toyotas) > Toyota 2C Turbo Diesel > > Subaru > Turbo Subaru > > Geo/Suzuki 2300 cc > > Mercedes Diesel > Mitsubishi > > > *Soon to be* > BMW K100 motorcycle engine > > > *Used on Pietenpol Scout* > > Model T > > Chevrolet Vega > > > (Was there a successful Volkswagen? Was a Vega engine ever used on an > aircamper?) > > Unconfirmed: Dodge 4 cyl. Inline > > Ford Falcon inverted straight six > > * > > > * > > -- Blue Skies, Steve D ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Engines
From: Douwe <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Date: Jun 26, 2014
Hey Oscar. I notice the olds v8. If that refers to the Aussie one, for accuracy sake it should probably be listed as a rover v8 unless of course you know of another that flew with an actual olds. Same engine really, so maybe "rover/olds v8" would be good Douwe Sent from my iPhone ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 26, 2014
Subject: Re: Engines
From: John Fay <jfay1950(at)gmail.com>
Oscar, The Olds V-8 on the list was one of the Steve Wittman style conversions. I am going to add the Rover V8 as another variation on the list. John Fay On Thu, Jun 26, 2014 at 9:18 AM, Douwe wrote: > > Hey Oscar. > > I notice the olds v8. If that refers to the Aussie one, for accuracy sake > it should probably be listed as a rover v8 unless of course you know of > another that flew with an actual olds. Same engine really, so maybe > "rover/olds v8" would be good > > Douwe > > Sent from my iPhone > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Coulda, Ca Old Time Fly In..July 19
From: "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Jun 26, 2014
Now see, this would have been an event that I could do pretty easily. About 4 flight hours from Medford, so one intermediate stop. However, we will be on our way back from a dive trip in Honduras that day, with an overnight in Houston on the 19th. Maybe next time... -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425553#425553 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Coulda, Ca Old Time Fly In..July 19
From: "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org>
Date: Jun 26, 2014
Too far for me. Sorry guys. -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425555#425555 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ray Krause <raykrause(at)frontiernet.net>
Subject: Re: Coulda, Ca Old Time Fly In..July 19
Date: Jun 26, 2014
Ok. Have a great trip. Ray Sent from my iPad > On Jun 26, 2014, at 8:36 AM, "taildrags" wrote: > > > Now see, this would have been an event that I could do pretty easily. About 4 flight hours from Medford, so one intermediate stop. However, we will be on our way back from a dive trip in Honduras that day, with an overnight in Houston on the 19th. Maybe next time... > > -------- > Oscar Zuniga > Medford, OR > Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" > A75 power > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425553#425553 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ray Krause <raykrause(at)frontiernet.net>
Subject: Re: Coulda, Ca Old Time Fly In..July 19
Date: Jun 26, 2014
Ok, see you some other time. Ray Sent from my iPad > On Jun 26, 2014, at 8:42 AM, "AircamperN11MS" wrote: > > > Too far for me. Sorry guys. > > -------- > Scott Liefeld > Flying N11MS since March 1972 > Steel Tube > C-85-12 > Wire Wheels > Brodhead in 1996 > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425555#425555 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 26, 2014
From: Bill <wemidy(at)cox.net>
Subject: Air Camper plans
I have sky scout plans. Are the air camper plans pretty much the same as the ones posted in 1932 flying and glider magazine (just bigger) or have there been improvements and upgrades to the design since then. I really just want to know before spending money on something I already have. Since the aircraft design was first published in a magazine for everyone to build I would just like to know if they are different. Another question. Tube or Wood Fuselage BE ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick N" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: Air Camper plans
Date: Jun 26, 2014
Bill I am in the process of building a Sky Scout from the Flying Glider plans, I'm not aware of any others out there except Pietenpol family ones which are the same. Also build with wood it's stronger. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill" <wemidy(at)cox.net> Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2014 6:21 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Air Camper plans > > I have sky scout plans. Are the air camper plans pretty much the same as > the ones posted in 1932 flying and glider magazine (just bigger) or have > there been improvements and upgrades to the design since then. I really > just want to know before spending money on something I already have. Since > the aircraft design was first published in a magazine for everyone to > build I would just like to know if they are different. > > Another question. Tube or Wood Fuselage > > BE > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: engine listing
From: "aviken" <aviken(at)windstream.net>
Date: Jun 26, 2014
I hope to add the willys jeep 134 L to that list. Working on that project now. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425575#425575 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 27, 2014
Subject: Re: engine listing
From: Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com>
I am sure hoping that jeep engine works, I love Piets and Jeeps. Kind of like dating a supermodel with a sense of humor, who is a homebrewer. Blue Skies, Steve D. On Thu, Jun 26, 2014 at 10:17 PM, aviken wrote: > > I hope to add the willys jeep 134 L to that list. Working on that > project now. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425575#425575 > > -- Blue Skies, Steve D ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Air Camper plans
From: "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Jun 27, 2014
Bill, There have been definite improvements over the years from the Flyer and Glider plans of 1932. As an example, the center section is built completely different. No body would joins the spars in the way it is shown in the 1932 plans. AC 4313 is a much better reference for the scarfing of joints. The lift strut attach points, I believe, are a good bit different as well. You will be much happier if you do not skimp, and go ahead and purchase the plans from the Pietenpol website. In addition to the plans, you get the steel tube plans, and, most importantly, the weight and balance data that Bernard Pietenpol added to the later plans. Also, and I wasn't sure from your post, are you building an Aircamper or a Sky Scout? There are not any steel tube fuselage plans for the Sky Scout, that I know of. If I am wrong on that point, someone please chime in- Finally, I have attached a link to an article written by William Wynne on fuselage construction. Not to get in a huge "urinating competition", but Dick's comment that wood fuselages are 'stronger' than steel tube fuselages is simply not correct, at least from a crash survivability and risk management standpoint. Are wood fuselages strong? Absolutely. Are they crash survivable for the pilot? Absolutely. Just ask Kevin Purtee. There are plenty of them flying, and most Pietenpol fuselages are made of wood. However, I had to point out Dick's statement as his opinion, not fact. Read William's writing and form your own opinion. http://flycorvair.net/2012/11/17/steel-tube-fuselages-safe-planes-and-250mph-accidents/ I wish you the best as you make your plans. -------- Semper Fi, Terry Hand Athens, GA USMC, USMCR, ATP BVD DVD PDQ BBQ Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425580#425580 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 27, 2014
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Aluminum Wing Strut/Jury Strut Attachment
I have the smaller aluminum wing struts from Carlson Aircraft, (1.00" X 2.44")and will also be using their jury struts. My questions are on the use of a single hole in each wing strut to use a 1/4" eyebolt to secure the jurys. Will this hole compromise the strength of the strut? Would I be better off using straps to secure the jurys? Thanks is advance! If God is your co-pilot...switch seats. Mike Perez Karetaker Aero STILL Building... ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Aluminum Wing Strut/Jury Strut Attachment
From: "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Jun 27, 2014
I stressed over this as well. I decided that as long as you put a piece of aluminum inside where the hole is, so you can safely tighten the bolt and not crush the tube, it would be alright. This piece inside, now gives a place for water to set that may get in the tops, which didn't seem like a good idea and led me in favor of a smaller bushing rather than the block. Lastly, not sure if the strut material can be welded, if so, that seemed like a good idea. Since I was reusing jury struts, the process of precisely locating that hole became problematic, so I went with the straps anyway... Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425587#425587 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Brian Kenney <brian.kenney(at)live.ca>
Subject: Aluminum Wing Strut/Jury Strut Attachment
Date: Jun 27, 2014
I don't think you need a 1/4" bolt for a jury strut and I think 3/16" shoul d be enough. The bigger issue is the internal support if you use a pass thr u bolt to prevent flattening the strut. One or two strong blind rivets on one side may be better. The critical connections are the strut ends. I am working on designing them. The limiting issue with them seems to be the cru shing of the strut material by the thru bolts as they are in shear. To say it another way=2C the elongation of the strut holes under maximum load. If anyone has done this analysis I would like to hear about it. Date: Fri=2C 27 Jun 2014 07:24:49 -0700 From: speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net Subject: Pietenpol-List: Aluminum Wing Strut/Jury Strut Attachment I have the smaller aluminum wing struts from Carlson Aircraft=2C (1.00" X 2 .44") and will also be using their jury struts. My questions are on the use of a single hole in each wing strut to use a 1/4" eyebolt to secure the ju rys. Will this hole compromise the strength of the strut? Would I be better off using straps to secure the jurys? Thanks is advance! =0A If God is your co-pilot...switch seats.=0A Mike Perez=0A Karetaker Aero=0A STILL Building...=0A =0A =0A =0A ============0A ============0A ============0A ============0A =0A ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 27, 2014
Subject: Re: Aluminum Wing Strut/Jury Strut Attachment
From: Ken Bickers <bickers.ken(at)gmail.com>
My thinking on this. I'm not a structural engineer. I don't know how much a hole through the strut near its midpoint might weaken it, nor do I know how to calculate such a figure. I do know that the jury strut is there to keep the strut from collapsing near its midpoint when experiencing negative loads (i.e., when in compression). I figured that putting a hole at the exact spot that I was trying to keep the strut from collapsing was a bad idea. So I used straps to secure the jury struts. They were easy to make and easy to assemble. On Fri, Jun 27, 2014 at 8:42 AM, Brian Kenney wrote: > I don't think you need a 1/4" bolt for a jury strut and I think 3/16" > should be enough. The bigger issue is the internal support if you use a > pass thru bolt to prevent flattening the strut. One or two strong blind > rivets on one side may be better. The critical connections are the strut > ends. I am working on designing them. The limiting issue with them seems to > be the crushing of the strut material by the thru bolts as they are in > shear. To say it another way, the elongation of the strut holes under > maximum load. If anyone has done this analysis I would like to hear about > it. > > ------------------------------ > Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2014 07:24:49 -0700 > From: speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Aluminum Wing Strut/Jury Strut Attachment > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > > > I have the smaller aluminum wing struts from Carlson Aircraft, (1.00" X > 2.44") and will also be using their jury struts. My questions are on the > use of a single hole in each wing strut to use a 1/4" eyebolt to secure the > jurys. Will this hole compromise the strength of the strut? Would I be > better off using straps to secure the jurys? > > Thanks is advance! > > If God is your co-pilot...switch seats. > Mike Perez > Karetaker Aero > STILL Building... > > * > > ========== > st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > ========== > http://forums.matronics.com > ========== > ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > ========== > > * > > * > > > * > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick N" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: Air Camper plans
Date: Jun 27, 2014
Terry You bit, so bring a case of beer to Brodhead and I will too.and I will bring a concrete block also. We will put one end of the wood piece and steel piece on the block and the other end on the ground then we will stand on them and see what happens. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com> Sent: Friday, June 27, 2014 8:44 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Air Camper plans > > > Bill, > > There have been definite improvements over the years from the Flyer and > Glider plans of 1932. As an example, the center section is built > completely different. No body would joins the spars in the way it is shown > in the 1932 plans. AC 4313 is a much better reference for the scarfing of > joints. The lift strut attach points, I believe, are a good bit different > as well. > > You will be much happier if you do not skimp, and go ahead and purchase > the plans from the Pietenpol website. In addition to the plans, you get > the steel tube plans, and, most importantly, the weight and balance data > that Bernard Pietenpol added to the later plans. > > Also, and I wasn't sure from your post, are you building an Aircamper or a > Sky Scout? There are not any steel tube fuselage plans for the Sky Scout, > that I know of. If I am wrong on that point, someone please chime in- > > Finally, I have attached a link to an article written by William Wynne on > fuselage construction. Not to get in a huge "urinating competition", but > Dick's comment that wood fuselages are 'stronger' than steel tube > fuselages is simply not correct, at least from a crash survivability and > risk management standpoint. Are wood fuselages strong? Absolutely. Are > they crash survivable for the pilot? Absolutely. Just ask Kevin Purtee. > There are plenty of them flying, and most Pietenpol fuselages are made of > wood. However, I had to point out Dick's statement as his opinion, not > fact. Read William's writing and form your own opinion. > > http://flycorvair.net/2012/11/17/steel-tube-fuselages-safe-planes-and-250mph-accidents/ > > I wish you the best as you make your plans. > > -------- > Semper Fi, > > Terry Hand > Athens, GA > > USMC, USMCR, ATP > BVD DVD PDQ BBQ > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425580#425580 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Air Camper plans
From: "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Jun 27, 2014
Dick, My comments to Bill were only meant to point out that your comments were opinion, not fact. My comments below are opinion, as well, so anybody reading it, please take it as such. I am not a structural engineer (and I don't think that Dick is either), nor did I sleep in a Holiday Inn Express last night- Wood is strong, no doubt. Steel is as well. But when wood meets its limit it breaks in a way that steel does not. Steel bends and gives prior to ultimate failure. There is much less elasticity in wood than steel. All of those are layman's terms and observation, certainly not professional terms. However, that is why, as William Wynne noted, dragsters and cropdusters are made out of steel, not wood. Survivability in a crash. My only point, Dick, is that it is incorrect to make a blanket statement that wood is stronger than steel. I don't know Bill's background. He may be a 10,000 hour ATP, or a newly-minted Sport Pilot, an experienced builder, or a new guy. He needs to decide for himself what he wants to build. I am just pointing out the difference between opinion and fact. -------- Semper Fi, Terry Hand Athens, GA USMC, USMCR, ATP BVD DVD PDQ BBQ Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425604#425604 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 27, 2014
From: Hans van der Voort <nx15kv(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Aluminum Wing Strut/Jury Strut Attachment
Any hole through the strut will compromise the strength of the strut.=0AIs it enough to fail the strut ? that depends on the load, the strut dimension s and material. Plus the-size of the hole.=0AThere is-also the added ri sk that an-not properly finished hole creates stress risers that could ca use damage over time.=0A=0AA strap around the strut avoids all this.=0APlus can easily slide up or down the strut to find the right position for the j ury strut location.=0A=0AI choose to use a strap.=0A=0AHans=0A=0ANX15KV=0AW aller, TX =0A=0A=0AOn Friday, June 27, 2014 10:14 AM, Ken Bickers wrote:=0A =0A=0A=0AMy thinking on this. -I'm not a struct ural engineer. -I don't know how much a hole through the strut near its m idpoint might weaken it, nor do I know how to calculate such a figure. -I do know that the jury strut is there to keep the strut from collapsing nea r its midpoint when experiencing negative loads (i.e., when in compression) . -I figured that putting a hole at the exact spot that I was trying to k eep the strut from collapsing was a bad idea. -So I used straps to secure the jury struts. -They were easy to make and easy to assemble. -- =0A=0A=0A=0AOn Fri, Jun 27, 2014 at 8:42 AM, Brian Kenney <brian.kenney@liv e.ca> wrote:=0A=0AI don't think you need a 1/4" bolt for a jury strut and I think-3/16" should be enough. The bigger issue is the internal support i f you use a pass thru bolt to prevent flattening the strut. One or two stro ng -blind rivets on one side may be better.- The critical connections a re the strut ends. I am working on designing them. The limiting issue with them seems to be the crushing of the strut material by the thru bolts as th ey are in shear. To say it another way, the elongation of the strut holes u nder maximum load. -If anyone has done this analysis I would like to hear about it. =0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>________________________________=0A>Date: Fri, 2 tenpol-List: Aluminum Wing Strut/Jury Strut Attachment=0A>To: pietenpol-lis t(at)matronics.com=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>I have the smaller aluminum wing struts from Carlson Aircraft, (1.00" X 2.44") and will also be using their jury struts . My questions are on the use of a single hole in each wing strut to use a 1/4" eyebolt to secure the jurys. Will this hole compromise the strength of the strut? Would I be better off using straps to secure the jurys? =0A>=0A >=0A> =0A>Thanks is advance! =0A>=0A>=0A>If God is your co-pilot...switch s eats. =0A>Mike Perez =0A>Karetaker Aero =0A>STILL Building... =0A> =0A>st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List http:// forums.matronics.com/ ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution =0A>" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List =0Atp://forums.matronics.com=0A_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contributio ================= ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Air Camper plans
From: "curtdm(at)gmail.com" <curtdm(at)gmail.com>
Date: Jun 27, 2014
A quick experiment shows that a plane built using the steel tube plans can fly so I suspect one made from the Flying and Glider would fly too, but like Dick said, wood is stronger....so is steel. -------- Curt Merdan Flower Mound, TX Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425614#425614 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/image_152.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Air Camper plans
From: "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Jun 27, 2014
Curt, I see that your weight and balance is correct! ;-) -------- Semper Fi, Terry Hand Athens, GA USMC, USMCR, ATP BVD DVD PDQ BBQ Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425615#425615 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Who's flying to Brodhead?
Date: Jun 27, 2014
Okay, let's see a show of hands. Who's planning on flying their Pietenpol to Brodhead? I'm planning on it unless the WX disallows it. D ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Aluminum Wing Strut/Jury Strut Attachment
From: "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Jun 27, 2014
Strut ends for the Carlsons. Carlson does sell 1x1 6061 aluminum to use as inserts just for this. On the small struts, the flat area is 3/4, so you have to bevel the edges just t tad on the 1x1 stock. It seems you have to buy a lot though... and I did... therefore... I'd be happy to whittle down my 6' length if anyone needs less than 6 feet (or whatever the minimum was). On the lower ends, I made a bridal type fitting that fit over the outside. Fit a large custom nut on the end and overlapped the bridal so I could fit 2 AN4's (or 5's, can't remember... it's not the strength I'm looking for, rather the diameter of the bolt to make the hole harder to elongate) spaced about 1 1/2 apart. Those with the insert allows me to squeeze tight enough that I don't think there's any shear on the bolts because of the friction between the strut and the bridal part. Probably over done, the straps that make the bridal are 1/8 4130. On the other lower ends, I just made a fixed length fitting out of two 1/8 strap 4130 pieces. On the uppers, I used the short swiveling part out of the old steel struts. I fit this into the insert, and continued the length of the insert further into the strut to spread the load. I think it's around 6 or 8" long overall. It allows the struts to align better, and is a neat installation. Need to get some pics. I made all the fittings in a day, they weren't very labor intensive or difficult at all. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425624#425624 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: BPA newsletter
Date: Jun 27, 2014
Hey John, Have the newsletters gone out? I've been away and didn't see it in the mail pile when I returned and was wondering. Douwe ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 27, 2014
Subject: Re: Who's flying to Brodhead?
From: Ken Bickers <bickers.ken(at)gmail.com>
Not this year. But next year, hell or high water. Ken On Fri, Jun 27, 2014 at 1:41 PM, Douwe Blumberg wrote: > Okay, let=99s see a show of hands. Who=99s planning on flyin g their Pietenpol > to Brodhead? > > > I=99m planning on it unless the WX disallows it. > > > D > > * > =========== .matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List> =========== =========== om/contribution> =========== > > * > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: If The Excitement Of Brodhead Is Still Not Enough For
You
From: "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Jun 27, 2014
Brodhead weekend needs no help,but I saw this on Avweb. If someone is headed to Brodhead, it might be another stop worth visiting just up the road. http://heavybombersweekend.splashthat.com/ -------- Semper Fi, Terry Hand Athens, GA USMC, USMCR, ATP BVD DVD PDQ BBQ Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425627#425627 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: John Hofmann <jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc.com>
Subject: Re: BPA newsletter
Date: Jun 27, 2014
Yes they have. They are on the slow boat out. On Jun 27, 2014, at 2:42 PM, Douwe Blumberg wrote: > Hey John, > > Have the newsletters gone out? I=92ve been away and didn=92t see it in the mail pile when I returned and was wondering. > > Douwe > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Subject: BPA newsletter
Date: Jun 27, 2014
.but have the newsletters gone out to the West? Gary Boothe NX308MB From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Hofmann Sent: Friday, June 27, 2014 1:00 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: BPA newsletter Yes they have. They are on the slow boat out. On Jun 27, 2014, at 2:42 PM, Douwe Blumberg wrote: Hey John, Have the newsletters gone out? I've been away and didn't see it in the mail pile when I returned and was wondering. Douwe href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List purple; text-decoration: underline;">http://forums.matronics.com style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Who's flying to Brodhead?
From: Gene Rambo <generambo(at)msn.com>
Date: Jun 27, 2014
I'm trying my best!! Gene On Jun 27, 2014, at 3:41 PM, "Douwe Blumberg" w rote: > Okay, let=99s see a show of hands. Who=99s planning on flying their Pietenpol to Brodhead? > > I=99m planning on it unless the WX disallows it. > > D > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Who's flying to Brodhead?
From: danhelsper(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 27, 2014
I will be there Lord willing and the creek don't rise!! Only have to make i t over from Poplar Grove! Dan Helsper Puryear, TN -----Original Message----- From: Douwe Blumberg <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> Sent: Fri, Jun 27, 2014 2:41 pm Subject: Pietenpol-List: Who's flying to Brodhead? Okay, let=99s see a show of hands. Who=99s planning on flying their Pietenpol to Brodhead? I=99m planning on it unless the WX disallows it. D ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Greg Cardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Who's flying to Brodhead?
Date: Jun 27, 2014
At least two (Bob Poore and myself) coming from Minneapolis. Could be 2 or 3 other Pietenpols making the trip from this area also. Greg Cardinal ----- Original Message ----- From: Douwe Blumberg To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, June 27, 2014 2:41 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Who's flying to Brodhead? Okay, let's see a show of hands. Who's planning on flying their Pietenpo l to Brodhead? I'm planning on it unless the WX disallows it. D --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protec tion is active. http://www.avast.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Boatright, Jeffrey" <jeffboatright(at)emory.edu>
Subject: Re: Who's flying to Brodhead?
Date: Jun 27, 2014
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Subject: Re: ?Q?RE:_Pietenpol-List:_Re:_Air_Camper_plans?
From: "=?utf-8?Q?aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com?=" <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Jun 27, 2014
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Date: Jun 27, 2014
From: gliderx5(at)comcast.net
Subject: Re: Who's flying to Brodhead?
The Piet's not ready yet, but I plan to fly the Tripacer in on Friday, then on the Oshkosh Saturday. I'll have a couple latex paint panels if anyone w ants to take a look. Malcolm Morrison http://wienerdogaero.com/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> Sent: Friday, June 27, 2014 3:41:23 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Who's flying to Brodhead? Okay, let=99s see a show of hands. Who=99s planning on flying t heir Pietenpol to Brodhead? I=99m planning on it unless the WX disallows it. D === ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Who's flying to Brodhead?
From: "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Jun 27, 2014
I'm still planning on it. Not sure yet if I'll be leaving the Chatt TN area Wed or Thurs. Continuing on to Oshkosh on Sun morning for the entire week. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425638#425638 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Air Camper plans
From: "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca>
Date: Jun 27, 2014
Shad, For your sake, I hope your flow rate of warm liquids is equal to or greater than your flow of cold liquids. (i.e. outflow greater than or equal to inflow) BC Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425647#425647 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Who's flying to Brodhead?
From: "M. Zeke Zechini" <marcus.zechini(at)gmail.com>
Date: Jun 27, 2014
Attending with Comanche co-owner who is building a Piet. But, in our Comanch e. NX431LA will attend next year, too Sent from my iPad > On Jun 27, 2014, at 3:47 PM, Ken Bickers wrote: > > Not this year. But next year, hell or high water. Ken > > >> On Fri, Jun 27, 2014 at 1:41 PM, Douwe Blumberg <douweblumberg@earthlink. net> wrote: >> Okay, let=99s see a show of hands. Who=99s planning on flyin g their Pietenpol to Brodhead? >> >> >> >> I=99m planning on it unless the WX disallows it. >> >> >> >> D >> >> >> >> " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List >> tp://forums.matronics.com >> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> > > > 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Michael Weston <smikewest(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Engines
Date: Jun 27, 2014
hey douwe, there was a piet built in minnesota that had an actual buick V-8, i can't remember the guy's name but, norm tesmar(norm?,readin this?) does. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Aluminum Wing Strut/Jury Strut Attachment
From: "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org>
Date: Jun 27, 2014
Hey guys, I have 4130 steel struts with straps for the jury struts. I think the straps are the way to go. Piper has done it that way for more years than I am old. That's good enough for me. -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425651#425651 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mike McGowan" <shadetree(at)socket.net>
Subject: Re: Engines
Date: Jun 27, 2014
When I went to Rockford a very long time ago there was a Piet with two A-65's driving contra rotating props. Mike McGowan -----Original Message----- From: Michael Weston Sent: Friday, June 27, 2014 8:08 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Engines hey douwe, there was a piet built in minnesota that had an actual buick V-8, i can't remember the guy's name but, norm tesmar(norm?,readin this?) does. --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Clif Dawson" <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Air Camper plans
Date: Jun 27, 2014
On a Weight to weight basis spruce and most ( not all) other softwoods are pretty much the same strength as mild steel. So yes, "wood is as strong as steel". :-) And the Piet wood structure has proven it's survivability in a severe crash. Again, just ask William. But, as you say, each of us has to be comfortable with our own decisions. One thought though. The entire weight, including G forces in maneuvering and weather related, is supported by the wing is it not? So? What's the wing made of????? :-) Clif Worry gives a small thing a big shadow. Swedish proverb > > Dick, > > My only point, Dick, is that it is incorrect to make a blanket statement > that wood is stronger than steel. I don't know Bill's background. He may > be a 10,000 hour ATP, or a newly-minted Sport Pilot, an experienced > builder, or a new guy. He needs to decide for himself what he wants to > build. I am just pointing out the difference between opinion and fact. > > -------- > Semper Fi, > > Terry Hand > Athens, GA ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Clif Dawson" <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Air Camper plans
Date: Jun 27, 2014
So why does beer go through the human body so fast? Clif > Shad, > For your sake, I hope your flow rate of warm liquids is equal to or > greater than your flow of cold liquids. (i.e. outflow greater than or > equal to inflow) > > BC ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick N" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: Air Camper plans
Date: Jun 27, 2014
Terry No offence taken but I was hoping to taking a Marine officer for a bit more money, I will bring stuff with me to Brodhead anyway in case somebody wants to take me up on my bet. There are liquor stores in town in case. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com> Sent: Friday, June 27, 2014 12:50 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Air Camper plans > > > Dick, > > My comments to Bill were only meant to point out that your comments were > opinion, not fact. My comments below are opinion, as well, so anybody > reading it, please take it as such. I am not a structural engineer (and I > don't think that Dick is either), nor did I sleep in a Holiday Inn Express > last night- > > Wood is strong, no doubt. Steel is as well. But when wood meets its limit > it breaks in a way that steel does not. Steel bends and gives prior to > ultimate failure. There is much less elasticity in wood than steel. All of > those are layman's terms and observation, certainly not professional > terms. However, that is why, as William Wynne noted, dragsters and > cropdusters are made out of steel, not wood. Survivability in a crash. > > My only point, Dick, is that it is incorrect to make a blanket statement > that wood is stronger than steel. I don't know Bill's background. He may > be a 10,000 hour ATP, or a newly-minted Sport Pilot, an experienced > builder, or a new guy. He needs to decide for himself what he wants to > build. I am just pointing out the difference between opinion and fact. > > -------- > Semper Fi, > > Terry Hand > Athens, GA > > USMC, USMCR, ATP > BVD DVD PDQ BBQ > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425604#425604 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Air Camper plans
From: "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Jun 27, 2014
Dick, Just to be clear, as well as being a point of pride, but I was an "E" before I was an "O". But you can try and take my money any time, Dick. Semper Fi, Marine! -------- Semper Fi, Terry Hand Athens, GA USMC, USMCR, ATP BVD DVD PDQ BBQ Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425661#425661 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Aluminum Wing Strut/Jury Strut Attachment
From: Scott Knowlton <flyingscott_k(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Jun 28, 2014
Picture please! Scott Knowlton Sent from my iPhone > On Jun 27, 2014, at 5:11 PM, "Ken Bickers" wrote: > > My thinking on this. I'm not a structural engineer. I don't know how muc h a hole through the strut near its midpoint might weaken it, nor do I know h ow to calculate such a figure. I do know that the jury strut is there to ke ep the strut from collapsing near its midpoint when experiencing negative lo ads (i.e., when in compression). I figured that putting a hole at the exact spot that I was trying to keep the strut from collapsing was a bad idea. S o I used straps to secure the jury struts. They were easy to make and easy t o assemble. > > >> On Fri, Jun 27, 2014 at 8:42 AM, Brian Kenney wrot e: >> I don't think you need a 1/4" bolt for a jury strut and I think 3/16" sho uld be enough. The bigger issue is the internal support if you use a pass th ru bolt to prevent flattening the strut. One or two strong blind rivets on o ne side may be better. The critical connections are the strut ends. I am wo rking on designing them. The limiting issue with them seems to be the crushi ng of the strut material by the thru bolts as they are in shear. To say it a nother way, the elongation of the strut holes under maximum load. If anyone has done this analysis I would like to hear about it. >> >> Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2014 07:24:49 -0700 >> From: speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net >> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Aluminum Wing Strut/Jury Strut Attachment >> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >> >> >> I have the smaller aluminum wing struts from Carlson Aircraft, (1.00" X 2 .44") and will also be using their jury struts. My questions are on the use o f a single hole in each wing strut to use a 1/4" eyebolt to secure the jurys . Will this hole compromise the strength of the strut? Would I be better off using straps to secure the jurys? >> >> Thanks is advance! >> >> If God is your co-pilot...switch seats. >> Mike Perez >> Karetaker Aero >> STILL Building... >> >> >> st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List >> http://forums.matronics.com >> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> >> >> >> " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List >> tp://forums.matronics.com >> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> > > > 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 28, 2014
Subject: Re: BPA newsletter
From: "Charles N. Campbell" <charlescampbell1924(at)gmail.com>
Douwe, I haven't gotten mine, either. Chuck On Fri, Jun 27, 2014 at 3:42 PM, Douwe Blumberg wrote: > Hey John, > > > Have the newsletters gone out? I=99ve been away and didn=99t see it in the > mail pile when I returned and was wondering. > > > Douwe > > * > =========== .matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List> =========== =========== om/contribution> =========== > > * > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <jack(at)bedfordlandings.com>
Subject: Aluminum Wing Strut/Jury Strut Attachment
Date: Jun 28, 2014
Look at any Cub. They all have 'em. Jack Phillips NX899JP Smith Mountain Lake (W91), Virginia _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott Knowlton Sent: Saturday, June 28, 2014 4:47 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aluminum Wing Strut/Jury Strut Attachment Picture please! Scott Knowlton Sent from my iPhone On Jun 27, 2014, at 5:11 PM, "Ken Bickers" wrote: My thinking on this. I'm not a structural engineer. I don't know how much a hole through the strut near its midpoint might weaken it, nor do I know how to calculate such a figure. I do know that the jury strut is there to keep the strut from collapsing near its midpoint when experiencing negative loads (i.e., when in compression). I figured that putting a hole at the exact spot that I was trying to keep the strut from collapsing was a bad idea. So I used straps to secure the jury struts. They were easy to make and easy to assemble. On Fri, Jun 27, 2014 at 8:42 AM, Brian Kenney wrote: I don't think you need a 1/4" bolt for a jury strut and I think 3/16" should be enough. The bigger issue is the internal support if you use a pass thru bolt to prevent flattening the strut. One or two strong blind rivets on one side may be better. The critical connections are the strut ends. I am working on designing them. The limiting issue with them seems to be the crushing of the strut material by the thru bolts as they are in shear. To say it another way, the elongation of the strut holes under maximum load. If anyone has done this analysis I would like to hear about it. _____ Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2014 07:24:49 -0700 From: speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net Subject: Pietenpol-List: Aluminum Wing Strut/Jury Strut Attachment I have the smaller aluminum wing struts from Carlson Aircraft, (1.00" X 2.44") and will also be using their jury struts. My questions are on the use of a single hole in each wing strut to use a 1/4" eyebolt to secure the jurys. Will this hole compromise the strength of the strut? Would I be better off using straps to secure the jurys? Thanks is advance! If God is your co-pilot...switch seats. Mike Perez Karetaker Aero STILL Building... st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List http://forums.matronics.com ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List tp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 28, 2014
Subject: Re: Aluminum Wing Strut/Jury Strut Attachment
From: Ken Bickers <bickers.ken(at)gmail.com>
Scott, I don't have a bunch of close ups of the diagonal strut to jury strut fitting. Here's one that will give you a pretty decent view of it. I kept the resolution high so you could zoom in on the fitting itself. My struts are round 4130, faired with balsa that I routed out and glued on. As Jack says, you can also look at any Cub wing. In my case, the fittings look remarkably similar to the ones used on the Aviat Husky. Cheers, Ken On Sat, Jun 28, 2014 at 5:54 AM, Jack Phillips wrote: > Look at any Cub. They all have =98em. > > > Jack Phillips > > NX899JP > > Smith Mountain Lake (W91), Virginia > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto: > owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Scott Knowlton > *Sent:* Saturday, June 28, 2014 4:47 AM > *To:* pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: Aluminum Wing Strut/Jury Strut Attachment > > > Picture please! > > > Scott Knowlton > > Sent from my iPhone > > > On Jun 27, 2014, at 5:11 PM, "Ken Bickers" wrote: > > My thinking on this. I'm not a structural engineer. I don't know how > much a hole through the strut near its midpoint might weaken it, nor do I > know how to calculate such a figure. I do know that the jury strut is > there to keep the strut from collapsing near its midpoint when experienci ng > negative loads (i.e., when in compression). I figured that putting a hol e > at the exact spot that I was trying to keep the strut from collapsing was a > bad idea. So I used straps to secure the jury struts. They were easy to > make and easy to assemble. > > > On Fri, Jun 27, 2014 at 8:42 AM, Brian Kenney > wrote: > > I don't think you need a 1/4" bolt for a jury strut and I think 3/16" > should be enough. The bigger issue is the internal support if you use a > pass thru bolt to prevent flattening the strut. One or two strong blind > rivets on one side may be better. The critical connections are the strut > ends. I am working on designing them. The limiting issue with them seems to > be the crushing of the strut material by the thru bolts as they are in > shear. To say it another way, the elongation of the strut holes under > maximum load. If anyone has done this analysis I would like to hear abou t > it. > ------------------------------ > > Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2014 07:24:49 -0700 > From: speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Aluminum Wing Strut/Jury Strut Attachment > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > > > I have the smaller aluminum wing struts from Carlson Aircraft, (1.00" X > 2.44") and will also be using their jury struts. My questions are on the > use of a single hole in each wing strut to use a 1/4" eyebolt to secure t he > jurys. Will this hole compromise the strength of the strut? Would I be > better off using straps to secure the jurys? > > > Thanks is advance! > > > If God is your co-pilot...switch seats. > Mike Perez > Karetaker Aero > STILL Building... > > > *st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List>* > > *http://forums.matronics.com * > > *="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution * > > > *" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List * > > *tp://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com>* > > *_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution * > > > * > =========== .matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List> =========== =========== om/contribution> =========== > > * > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 28, 2014
Subject: Re: Engines - Twin A-65
From: John Fay <jfay1950(at)gmail.com>
Mike, I was aware of that plane, and have seen pictures of it, but had not made a mention of it on the list. I have changed that. Can I get a more specific description of the Mitsubishi engine? Does anybody know what the type of Toyota engine was that the builders in New Zealand used? John Fay (My latest amended list follows; it includes the Jeep engine in the pending category) *Pietenpol Engines* Continental 50 hp A-65 Twin A-65 C-65 A-75 A-80 C-85 C-90 O-200 Twin 65 hp Continental Industrial Engine Lycoming 50 hp O-145 65 hp O-235 GPU Franklin 50 hp 65 hp 90 hp Ford Model A Model B Flat head V-8 Escort engine Cortina engine Fiesta engine Funk 200 standard 200 inverted Wilksch Airmotive WAM-100 diesel Warner radial 145 hp LeBlond radial Salmson radial Kinner radial Velie radial Rotec radial Lambert radial Mikron Rotax 912S Chevrolet 2.5L (Iron Duke) Buick V-8 Rover V-8 Corvair Toyota (I don't remember which one, but there was a pic a few months ago of two Piets in New Zealand who were powered by Toyotas) Toyota 2C Turbo Diesel Subaru Turbo Subaru Geo/Suzuki 2300 cc Mercedes Diesel Mitsubishi *Soon to be* BMW K100 motorcycle engine Jeep 134 L *Used on Pietenpol Scout* Model T Chevrolet Vega (Was there a successful Volkswagen? Was a Vega engine ever used on an aircamper?) Unconfirmed: Dodge 4 cyl. Inline Ford Falcon inverted straight six ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Engines - Twin A-65
From: Brian Kenney <brian.kenney(at)live.ca>
Date: Jun 28, 2014
The New Zealand engines are Toyota helix engines or a Chinese copy of it use d in tow motors. I think it is 2.3 liter but not sure. Sent from my iPad > On Jun 28, 2014, at 9:16 AM, "John Fay" wrote: > > Mike, > > I was aware of that plane, and have seen pictures of it, but had not made a mention of it on the list. I have changed that. > Can I get a more specific description of the Mitsubishi engine? Does any body know what the type of Toyota engine was that the builders in New Zealan d used? > > John Fay (My latest amended list follows; it includes the Jeep engine i n the pending category) > > > > > Pietenpol Engines > > > Continental 50 hp > A-65 > Twin A-65 > C-65 > A-75 > A-80 > C-85 > C-90 > O-200 > Twin 65 hp > > > Continental Industrial Engine > > > Lycoming 50 hp O-145 > > 65 hp > O-235 > GPU > > Franklin 50 hp > > 65 hp > > 90 hp > > > Ford Model A > Model B > Flat head V-8 > Escort engine > Cortina engine > Fiesta engine > > Funk 200 standard > 200 inverted > > Wilksch Airmotive WAM-100 diesel > Warner radial 145 hp > LeBlond radial > > Salmson radial > > Kinner radial > Velie radial > Rotec radial > Lambert radial > Mikron > > Rotax 912S > > > > Chevrolet 2.5L (Iron Duke) > Buick V-8 > Rover V-8 > > Corvair > Toyota (I don't remember which one, but there was a pic a few months ago o f > two Piets in New Zealand who were powered by Toyotas) > Toyota 2C Turbo Diesel > > Subaru > Turbo Subaru > > Geo/Suzuki 2300 cc > > Mercedes Diesel > Mitsubishi > > > > Soon to be > BMW K100 motorcycle engine > > Jeep 134 L > > > Used on Pietenpol Scout > > Model T > > Chevrolet Vega > > > > (Was there a successful Volkswagen? Was a Vega engine ever used on an a ircamper?) > > Unconfirmed: Dodge 4 cyl. Inline > > Ford Falcon inverted straight six > > > > > > > 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Engines - Twin A-65
From: Brian Kenney <brian.kenney(at)live.ca>
Date: Jun 28, 2014
Found it Toyota 4Y. 2.2 liter or Chinese copy of the same Sent from my iPad > On Jun 28, 2014, at 9:16 AM, "John Fay" wrote: > > Mike, > > I was aware of that plane, and have seen pictures of it, but had not made a mention of it on the list. I have changed that. > Can I get a more specific description of the Mitsubishi engine? Does any body know what the type of Toyota engine was that the builders in New Zealan d used? > > John Fay (My latest amended list follows; it includes the Jeep engine i n the pending category) > > > > > Pietenpol Engines > > > Continental 50 hp > A-65 > Twin A-65 > C-65 > A-75 > A-80 > C-85 > C-90 > O-200 > Twin 65 hp > > > Continental Industrial Engine > > > Lycoming 50 hp O-145 > > 65 hp > O-235 > GPU > > Franklin 50 hp > > 65 hp > > 90 hp > > > Ford Model A > Model B > Flat head V-8 > Escort engine > Cortina engine > Fiesta engine > > Funk 200 standard > 200 inverted > > Wilksch Airmotive WAM-100 diesel > Warner radial 145 hp > LeBlond radial > > Salmson radial > > Kinner radial > Velie radial > Rotec radial > Lambert radial > Mikron > > Rotax 912S > > > > Chevrolet 2.5L (Iron Duke) > Buick V-8 > Rover V-8 > > Corvair > Toyota (I don't remember which one, but there was a pic a few months ago o f > two Piets in New Zealand who were powered by Toyotas) > Toyota 2C Turbo Diesel > > Subaru > Turbo Subaru > > Geo/Suzuki 2300 cc > > Mercedes Diesel > Mitsubishi > > > > Soon to be > BMW K100 motorcycle engine > > Jeep 134 L > > > Used on Pietenpol Scout > > Model T > > Chevrolet Vega > > > > (Was there a successful Volkswagen? Was a Vega engine ever used on an a ircamper?) > > Unconfirmed: Dodge 4 cyl. Inline > > Ford Falcon inverted straight six > > > > > > > 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 28, 2014
Subject: Re: Engines - Twin A-65
From: John Fay <jfay1950(at)gmail.com>
Thanks Bryan. I will modify my master list. John Fay On Sat, Jun 28, 2014 at 8:33 AM, Brian Kenney wrote: > Found it Toyota 4Y. 2.2 liter or Chinese copy of the same > > Sent from my iPad > > > On Jun 28, 2014, at 9:16 AM, "John Fay" wrote: > > Mike, > > I was aware of that plane, and have seen pictures of it, but had not made > a mention of it on the list. I have changed that. > Can I get a more specific description of the Mitsubishi engine? Does > anybody know what the type of Toyota engine was that the builders in New > Zealand used? > > John Fay (My latest amended list follows; it includes the Jeep engine > in the pending category) > > > *Pietenpol Engines* > > Continental 50 hp > > A-65 > Twin A-65 > > C-65 > > A-75 > A-80 > > C-85 > C-90 > O-200 > Twin 65 hp > > Continental Industrial Engine > > Lycoming 50 hp O-145 > > 65 hp > O-235 > GPU > > Franklin 50 hp > > 65 hp > > 90 hp > > > Ford Model A > Model B > Flat head V-8 > Escort engine > Cortina engine > Fiesta engine > > Funk 200 standard > 200 inverted > > Wilksch Airmotive WAM-100 diesel > Warner radial 145 hp > LeBlond radial > > Salmson radial > > Kinner radial > Velie radial > Rotec radial > Lambert radial > Mikron > > Rotax 912S > > > Chevrolet 2.5L (Iron Duke) > Buick V-8 > Rover V-8 > > Corvair > Toyota (I don't remember which one, but there was a pic a few months ago > of > two Piets in New Zealand who were > powered by Toyotas) > Toyota 2C Turbo Diesel > > Subaru > Turbo Subaru > > Geo/Suzuki 2300 cc > > Mercedes Diesel > Mitsubishi > > > *Soon to be* > BMW K100 motorcycle engine > > Jeep 134 L > > > *Used on Pietenpol Scout* > > Model T > > Chevrolet Vega > > > (Was there a successful Volkswagen? Was a Vega engine ever used on an > aircamper?) > > Unconfirmed: Dodge 4 cyl. Inline > > Ford Falcon inverted straight six > > > * > > > * > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Jury struts
From: Douwe <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Date: Jun 28, 2014
Mike Drilling holes in the center of the strut gives me the creeps. I've seen it on flying planes and none have failed that I know of BUT if a strap fitting works, I can't think of a single reason other than aesthetics not to go that route Douwe Sent from my iPhone ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Broadhead light this year???
From: Douwe <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Date: Jun 28, 2014
Dang, I sure hope more of you than responded are flying up or it'll be a very light year! Douwe Sent from my iPhone ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Brodhead help
From: Douwe <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Date: Jun 28, 2014
Hey all Marci is thinking of flying with me to brodhead. If so, I need to get our camping gear up and back A friend up there has kindly volunteered to bring a tent, bags. Chairs to meet is but there's still food, clothes, stove etc Is anybody coming anywhere near Cincinnati on their way who would be willing to help out?? I suppose I could ship the stuff up and back Douwe 805 573 3564 Sent from my iPhone ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Scott Knowlton <flyingscott_k(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Aluminum Wing Strut/Jury Strut Attachment
Date: Jun 28, 2014
Thanks Ken. Great pic Scott Date: Sat=2C 28 Jun 2014 07:12:18 -0600 Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aluminum Wing Strut/Jury Strut Attachment From: bickers.ken(at)gmail.com Scott=2C I don't have a bunch of close ups of the diagonal strut to jury st rut fitting. Here's one that will give you a pretty decent view of it. I kept the resolution high so you could zoom in on the fitting itself. My st ruts are round 4130=2C faired with balsa that I routed out and glued on. A s Jack says=2C you can also look at any Cub wing. In my case=2C the fittin gs look remarkably similar to the ones used on the Aviat Husky. Cheers=2C Ken On Sat=2C Jun 28=2C 2014 at 5:54 AM=2C Jack Phillips <jack@bedfordlandings. com> wrote: Look at any Cub. They all have =91em. Jack Phillips NX899JP Smith Mountain Lake (W91)=2C Virginia From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott Knowl ton Sent: Saturday=2C June 28=2C 2014 4:47 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aluminum Wing Strut/Jury Strut Attachment Picture please! Scott Knowlton Sent from my iPhone On Jun 27=2C 2014=2C at 5:11 PM=2C "Ken Bickers" wr ote: My thinking on this. I'm not a structural engineer. I don't know how much a hole through the strut near its midpoint might weaken it=2C nor do I know how to calculate such a figure. I do know that the jury strut is there to keep the strut from collapsing near its midpoint when experienc ing negative loads (i.e.=2C when in compression). I figured that putting a hol e at the exact spot that I was trying to keep the strut from collapsing was a bad idea. So I used straps to secure the jury struts. They were easy to make and easy to assemble. On Fri=2C Jun 27=2C 2014 at 8:42 AM=2C Brian Kenney wrote: I don't think you need a 1/4" bolt for a jury strut and I think 3/16" should be enough. The bigger issue is the internal support if you use a pass thru bolt to pre vent flattening the strut. One or two strong blind rivets on one side may be better. The critical connections are the strut ends. I am working on designing them. The limiting issue with them seems to be the crushing of th e strut material by the thru bolts as they are in shear. To say it another wa y=2C the elongation of the strut holes under maximum load. If anyone has done this analysis I would like to hear about it. Date: Fri=2C 27 Jun 2014 07:24:49 -0700 From: speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net Subject: Pietenpol-List: Aluminum Wing Strut/Jury Strut Attachment I have the smaller aluminum wing struts from Carlson Aircraft=2C (1.00" X 2.44") and will also be using their jury struts. My questions are on the use of a single hole in each wing strut to use a 1/4" eyebolt to secure the jurys. Will this hole compromise the strength of the strut? Would I be better off using straps to secure the jurys? Thanks is advance! If God is your co-pilot...switch seats. Mike Perez Karetaker Aero STILL Building... st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List http://forums.matronics.com ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List tp://forums.matronics.com_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List tp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <jack(at)bedfordlandings.com>
Subject: Broadhead light this year???
Date: Jun 28, 2014
I most likely won't be there this year - the Bed & Breakfast is much busier than I expected and we have a full house that weekend. If I get a chance to get away, I'll try to come up Friday for one night, but it will have to be in the RV4. Jack Phillips NX899JP Smith Mountain Lake (W91), Virginia -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Douwe Sent: Saturday, June 28, 2014 9:47 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Broadhead light this year??? Dang, I sure hope more of you than responded are flying up or it'll be a very light year! Douwe Sent from my iPhone ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 28, 2014
Subject: Re: Aluminum Wing Strut/Jury Strut Attachment
From: Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com>
Here is a 1947 J3 cub jury strut. from straight ahead. Note the Pitot runs down through the Jury strut. must be a speed mod! Also a couple of grainy photos of the cub style jury strut attachments. I would go this way. No worries about weakening your strut. UNIVAIR calls it a front or rear Jury strut clamp assembly. Wag Aero has them somewhat cheaper. If you need I can take and send better photos of the clamps. Blue Skies, Steve D On Sat, Jun 28, 2014 at 3:46 AM, Scott Knowlton wrote: > Picture please! > > Scott Knowlton > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jun 27, 2014, at 5:11 PM, "Ken Bickers" wrote: > > My thinking on this. I'm not a structural engineer. I don't know how > much a hole through the strut near its midpoint might weaken it, nor do I > know how to calculate such a figure. I do know that the jury strut is > there to keep the strut from collapsing near its midpoint when experiencing > negative loads (i.e., when in compression). I figured that putting a hole > at the exact spot that I was trying to keep the strut from collapsing was a > bad idea. So I used straps to secure the jury struts. They were easy to > make and easy to assemble. > > > On Fri, Jun 27, 2014 at 8:42 AM, Brian Kenney > wrote: > >> I don't think you need a 1/4" bolt for a jury strut and I think 3/16" >> should be enough. The bigger issue is the internal support if you use a >> pass thru bolt to prevent flattening the strut. One or two strong blind >> rivets on one side may be better. The critical connections are the strut >> ends. I am working on designing them. The limiting issue with them seems to >> be the crushing of the strut material by the thru bolts as they are in >> shear. To say it another way, the elongation of the strut holes under >> maximum load. If anyone has done this analysis I would like to hear about >> it. >> >> ------------------------------ >> Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2014 07:24:49 -0700 >> From: speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net >> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Aluminum Wing Strut/Jury Strut Attachment >> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >> >> >> I have the smaller aluminum wing struts from Carlson Aircraft, (1.00" X >> 2.44") and will also be using their jury struts. My questions are on the >> use of a single hole in each wing strut to use a 1/4" eyebolt to secure the >> jurys. Will this hole compromise the strength of the strut? Would I be >> better off using straps to secure the jurys? >> >> Thanks is advance! >> >> If God is your co-pilot...switch seats. >> Mike Perez >> Karetaker Aero >> STILL Building... >> >> * >> >> st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List >> http://forums.matronics.com >> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> >> * >> >> * >> >> " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List >> tp://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com> >> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> >> * >> >> > > > * > > > * > > -- Blue Skies, Steve D ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Brodhead help
From: "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Jun 28, 2014
I'm driving and willing to bring whatever you need, just give me a list and I'll see how it compares to spares. Even willing to loan clothes! Uh... might wanna just bring your own skivvies though.. Not going very close to cincy... any chance you're doing or know someone doing some sort of trip to our path between atlanta and brodhead? Could drop off somewhere along there also. Pretty certain about any airport FBO would hold a box of stuff, or pilot lounge, whatever. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425680#425680 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 28, 2014
Subject: Re: Aluminum Wing Strut/Jury Strut Attachment
From: Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com>
I felt guilty about the grainy photos of the clamps. Here is a better photo. Note they are made for a cub with big front and small rear struts. Right and left. Blue Skies, Steve D. On Sat, Jun 28, 2014 at 10:56 AM, Steven Dortch wrote: > Here is a 1947 J3 cub jury strut. from straight ahead. Note the Pitot > runs down through the Jury strut. must be a speed mod! > > > Also a couple of grainy photos of the cub style jury strut attachments. > > I would go this way. No worries about weakening your strut. > > UNIVAIR calls it a front or rear Jury strut clamp assembly. Wag Aero has > them somewhat cheaper. > > If you need I can take and send better photos of the clamps. > > Blue Skies, > Steve D > > > On Sat, Jun 28, 2014 at 3:46 AM, Scott Knowlton > wrote: > >> Picture please! >> >> Scott Knowlton >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Jun 27, 2014, at 5:11 PM, "Ken Bickers" wrote: >> >> My thinking on this. I'm not a structural engineer. I don't know how >> much a hole through the strut near its midpoint might weaken it, nor do I >> know how to calculate such a figure. I do know that the jury strut is >> there to keep the strut from collapsing near its midpoint when experiencing >> negative loads (i.e., when in compression). I figured that putting a hole >> at the exact spot that I was trying to keep the strut from collapsing was a >> bad idea. So I used straps to secure the jury struts. They were easy to >> make and easy to assemble. >> >> >> On Fri, Jun 27, 2014 at 8:42 AM, Brian Kenney >> wrote: >> >>> I don't think you need a 1/4" bolt for a jury strut and I think 3/16" >>> should be enough. The bigger issue is the internal support if you use a >>> pass thru bolt to prevent flattening the strut. One or two strong blind >>> rivets on one side may be better. The critical connections are the strut >>> ends. I am working on designing them. The limiting issue with them seems to >>> be the crushing of the strut material by the thru bolts as they are in >>> shear. To say it another way, the elongation of the strut holes under >>> maximum load. If anyone has done this analysis I would like to hear about >>> it. >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2014 07:24:49 -0700 >>> From: speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net >>> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Aluminum Wing Strut/Jury Strut Attachment >>> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >>> >>> >>> I have the smaller aluminum wing struts from Carlson Aircraft, (1.00" X >>> 2.44") and will also be using their jury struts. My questions are on the >>> use of a single hole in each wing strut to use a 1/4" eyebolt to secure the >>> jurys. Will this hole compromise the strength of the strut? Would I be >>> better off using straps to secure the jurys? >>> >>> Thanks is advance! >>> >>> If God is your co-pilot...switch seats. >>> Mike Perez >>> Karetaker Aero >>> STILL Building... >>> >>> * >>> >>> st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List >>> http://forums.matronics.com >>> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >>> >>> * >>> >>> * >>> >>> " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List >>> tp://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com> >>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >>> >>> * >>> >>> >> >> >> * >> >> >> * >> >> > > > -- > Blue Skies, > Steve D > -- Blue Skies, Steve D ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Aluminum Wing Strut/Jury Strut Attachment
From: "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca>
Date: Jun 28, 2014
A couple of shots of Ken Perkins' strap fittings. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425682#425682 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/bhead050134_346.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/bhead050133_573.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 28, 2014
Subject: Pitot tube placement
From: Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com>
Originally the Pitot tube ran up the left front strut to the bottom of the wing. I am looking at running the tube through the wing and would like to drop it down where the jury struts are. The jury struts look to be about 12 inches outside the prop arc. Is this far enough out to be outside the prop wash? -- Blue Skies, Steve D ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 28, 2014
Subject: Re: Aluminum Wing Strut/Jury Strut Attachment
From: Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com>
If I were fabricating New, I would do them like Ken Perkin's. Simple and they work. Blue Skies, Steve D. On Sat, Jun 28, 2014 at 11:40 AM, Bill Church wrote: > billspiet(at)sympatico.ca> > > A couple of shots of Ken Perkins' strap fittings. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425682#425682 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/bhead050134_346.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/bhead050133_573.jpg > > -- Blue Skies, Steve D ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Jury struts
From: danhelsper(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 28, 2014
Here's one way to do it. Dan Helsper Puryear, TN -----Original Message----- From: Douwe <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> Sent: Sat, Jun 28, 2014 8:45 am Subject: Pietenpol-List: Jury struts Mike Drilling holes in the center of the strut gives me the creeps. I've seen i t on flying planes and none have failed that I know of BUT if a strap fitting wo rks, I can't think of a single reason other than aesthetics not to go that route Douwe Sent from my iPhone ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Brian Kenney <brian.kenney(at)live.ca>
Subject: Pitot tube placement
Date: Jun 28, 2014
I have mine just below the rear jury strut. Works great and no one has ever walked into it. Date: Sat=2C 28 Jun 2014 12:12:39 -0500


June 10, 2014 - June 28, 2014

Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-nn