Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-no
June 28, 2014 - July 13, 2014
| Subject: | Pitot tube placement |
| From: | steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com |
Originally the Pitot tube ran up the left front strut to the bottom of the
wing. I am looking at running the tube through the wing and would like to
drop it down where the jury struts are. The jury struts look to be about 12
inches outside the prop arc. =0A
Is this far enough out to be outside the prop wash?
--
Blue Skies=2C
Steve D
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Broadhead light this year??? |
I might be going, not sure yet.=0A-=0AShad =0A=0A=0AOn Saturday, June 28,
2014 11:30 AM, Jack Phillips wrote:=0A =0A=0A
ngs.com>=0A=0AI most likely won't be there this year - the Bed & Breakfast
is much busier=0Athan I expected and we have a full house that weekend.-
If I get a chance to=0Aget away, I'll try to come up Friday for one night,
but it will have to be=0Ain the RV4.=0A=0AJack Phillips=0ANX899JP=0ASmith M
ountain Lake (W91), Virginia=0A=0A-----Original Message-----=0AFrom: owner-
pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com=0A[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@m
atronics.com] On Behalf Of Douwe=0ASent: Saturday, June 28, 2014 9:47 AM=0A
rg(at)earthlink.net>=0A=0ADang, I sure hope more of you than responded are fly
ing up or it'll be a=0Avery light year!=0A=0ADouwe=0A=0ASent from my iPhone
========================
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | spring type spit axle |
| From: | "aviken" <aviken(at)windstream.net> |
Ive been working a little on my landing gear. Hope to get her standing up-right
soon. I decided to go with the spring type suspension that William Wynne described
to avoid bungee worries. It is a neat design although I'm not sure
that it is Lighter. It will possible be heaver, but less drag.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425720#425720
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/spring_2_929.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: spring type spit axle |
Just a comment--
Looks great, but you won't gain much in the drag department unless you can
put an airfoil shape onto that round tubing.
--Mac in Oregon
>
> Ive been working a little on my landing gear. Hope to get her standing
> up-right soon. I decided to go with the spring type suspension that
> William Wynne described to avoid bungee worries. It is a neat design
> although I'm not sure that it is Lighter. It will possible be heaver,
> but less drag.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425720#425720
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/spring_2_929.jpg
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Broadhead light this year??? |
| From: | "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org> |
Steve and Peter plan to fly their Corvair powered Piet from French Valley airport
in CA. This is the one they trailerd back a few years ago. EAA chapter 1279
built it.
--------
Scott Liefeld
Flying N11MS since March 1972
Steel Tube
C-85-12
Wire Wheels
Brodhead in 1996
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425729#425729
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: spring type spit axle |
Here are a few pics of the die spring landing gear struts-I built for the
Baby Lakes.- Springs for-a Piet will need to be a little stiffer.- M
cMaster Carr has many sizes and wt. ratings for springs, these were about $
40 each if I remember correctly, and weigh about 1.5-2lbs each.- If you l
ook closely at the the upper end of the 2nd pic you can see the solid barst
ock welded into the tube, that is where the strut attaches to the fuselage.
- The good thing about this setup is you can change the springs out if ne
eded (too stiff, too soft) without cutting and welding. I have a similar ge
ar on my Jungster, but there is no changing springs out without welding up
a new upper tube.- If I like this gear I may build one for the Piet.=0A
-=0AShad=0A-=0A-=0A-=0A- =0A=0A=0AOn Sunday, June 29, 2014 2:07 P
M, "macz(at)peak.org" wrote:=0A =0A=0A=0A--> Pietenpol-List m
essage posted by: macz(at)peak.org=0A=0AJust a comment--=0ALooks great, but yo
u won't gain much in the drag department unless you can=0Aput an airfoil sh
ape onto that round tubing.=0A--Mac in Oregon=0A=0A=0A=0A> --> Pietenpol-Li
st message posted by: "aviken" =0A>=0A> Ive been wor
king a little on my landing gear.- Hope to get her standing=0A> up-right
soon.- I decided to go with the spring type suspension that=0A> William
Wynne described to avoid- bungee worries.- - It is- a neat design
=0A> although I'm not sure that it is- Lighter.- It will possible be he
aver,=0A> but less drag.=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A> Read this topic online here:
=0A>=0A> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425720#425720=0A>=0A
>=0A>=0A>=0A> Attachments:=0A>=0A> http://forums.matronics.com//files/sprin
=============
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Brodhead light this year |
| From: | woodflier <woodflier(at)aol.com> |
I plan on flying out from Virginia, leaving Wed., the 23rd and arriving Thu
rs. or Fri, depending on weather.
Is there a group planning to fly to OSH on Sunday?
Matt Paxton
NX629ML
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
The NZ Piets were/are powered by Toyota Hilux engines:
http://nzcivair.blogspot.com/2013/07/pietenpol-aircampers-of-new-zealand.html
I have no idea which of the many Hilux engines they used though. Over the years
there were many variations, from 1.5L and on up. Most of them seem to make
rated power at 4800 RPM but I don't see a reduction drive on the pictures of the
NZ Piets, so who knows how much power they get out of them.
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425737#425737
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
OK... sorry... I found out that the Kiwi Piet uses the Toyota 22R engine but that
still doesn't help figure out how much power it's making. They are variously
rated at 97-108 HP at 4800-5000 RPM.
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425740#425740
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Carlson streamline tubing - jury strut fittings. |
A couple of pics of one way to do jury strut fittings....
Jim in Pryor, OK
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Kenney <brian.kenney(at)live.ca> |
I believe it is a 4Y engine which is a pushrod engine not with an overhead
cam
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Engines
> From: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
> Date: Sun=2C 29 Jun 2014 14:40:22 -0700
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>
>
> OK... sorry... I found out that the Kiwi Piet uses the Toyota 22R engine
but that still doesn't help figure out how much power it's making. They ar
e variously rated at 97-108 HP at 4800-5000 RPM.
>
> --------
> Oscar Zuniga
> Medford=2C OR
> Air Camper NX41CC "=3BScout"=3B
> A75 power
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425740#425740
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Aluminum Wing Strut/Jury Strut Attachment |
Thank you all for the ideas and pictures. I will be making straps and forgo the
drill/eye bolt idea. Jim M., I like that way of making the straps...will be considering
that idea more.
If God is your co-pilot...switch seats.
Mike Perez
Karetaker Aero
STILL Building...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Douwe Blumberg <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | barnstorming fly in |
I'm planning on flying up to the Barnstorming fly in in springfield with my daughter
for Saturday, leaving Sunday IF the weather is nice. This'll only be her
third flight so it needs to be smooth. might fly up Friday night, or super
early Sat.
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com> |
The article also mentions a Ford Cortina engine. Extensive research
(Google) shows that the Cortina had a 1.7 or 2.0 liter engine. Would that
be new to the engine list?
Blue Skies,
Steve D
On Sun, Jun 29, 2014 at 7:50 PM, Brian Kenney wrote:
> I believe it is a 4Y engine which is a pushrod engine not with an
> overhead cam
>
> > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Engines
> > From: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
> > Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2014 14:40:22 -0700
> > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>
> >
> >
> >
> > OK... sorry... I found out that the Kiwi Piet uses the Toyota 22R engine
> but that still doesn't help figure out how much power it's making. They are
> variously rated at 97-108 HP at 4800-5000 RPM.
> >
> > --------
> > Oscar Zuniga
> > Medford, OR
> > Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
>
> > A75 power
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425740#425740
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >==========
> >
> >
> >
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
--
Blue Skies,
Steve D
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dewey davenport <onedgerc(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: barnstorming fly in |
Dow that sounds great!! We will all look forward in seeing you and others a
t the event. This is the first year to try this event so let's keep our fig
ures crossed for good weather. So far, we have some really cool airplanes c
oming to the event and if any more Piet's want to join, that would be GREAT
. I know I plan on having mine there. Saturday morning the flight school wi
ll be hosting a pancake breakfast in their hangar ( 8-11). General admissio
n starts at 10 am ( Free) . During the event we plan on having a good selec
tion of aircraft on display, some old cars in the parking lot, kids bounce
house, rocket building workshop for some youngsters, biplane rides, ice cre
am, model airplanes,and etc. Saturday night we will be showing -a outdoor
movie ( Barnstorming) at Young's Dairy which has the best ice cream around
. Fell free to call me if you have any questions. 937-877-0837=0A=0AThanks
=0A-Dewey --=0Awww.barnstormingcarnival.com=0A=0A=0AOn Monday, June 3
0, 2014 7:49 AM, Douwe Blumberg wrote:=0A =0A
arthlink.net>=0A=0AI'm planning on flying up to the Barnstorming fly in in
springfield with my daughter for Saturday, leaving Sunday IF the weather is
nice.- This'll only be her third flight so it needs to be smooth.- mig
===========
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dewey davenport <onedgerc(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: barnstorming fly in |
Forgot to mention. The control tower is closed on Weekends.=0A=0ADewey=0A
=0A=0AOn , dewey davenport wrote:=0A =0A=0A=0ADow that
sounds great!! We will all look forward in seeing you and others at the ev
ent. This is the first year to try this event so let's keep our figures cro
ssed for good weather. So far, we have some really cool airplanes coming to
the event and if any more Piet's want to join, that would be GREAT. I know
I plan on having mine there. Saturday morning the flight school will be ho
sting a pancake breakfast in their hangar ( 8-11). General admission starts
at 10 am ( Free) . During the event we plan on having a good selection of
aircraft on display, some old cars in the parking lot, kids bounce house, r
ocket building workshop for some youngsters, biplane rides, ice cream, mode
l airplanes,and etc. Saturday night we will be showing -a outdoor movie (
Barnstorming) at Young's Dairy which has the best ice cream around. Fell f
ree to call me if you have any questions. 937-877-0837=0A=0AThanks=0A-Dew
ey --=0Awww.barnstormingcarnival.com=0A=0A=0AOn Monday, June 30, 2014 7
:49 AM, Douwe Blumberg wrote:=0A =0A=0A=0A-->
Pietenpol-List message posted by: Douwe Blumberg <douweblumberg@earthlink.
net>=0A=0AI'm planning on flying up to the Barnstorming fly in in springfie
ld with my daughter for Saturday, leaving Sunday IF the weather is nice.-
This'll only be her third flight so it needs to be smooth.- might fly up
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Brodhead light this year |
| From: | woodflier <woodflier(at)aol.com> |
I'm planning on flying my Piet up from Virginia, leaving Wednesday, the 23r
d and arriving Thursday or Friday, depending on weather.
Are there any plans to fly a group of Piets on Sunday to Oshkosh. I'm in fo
r that.
Matt Paxton
NX629ML
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Aluminum Wing Strut/Jury Strut Attachment |
| From: | "Charles N. Campbell" <charlescampbell1924(at)gmail.com> |
I bought a set of Taylorcraft struts from a friend of mine who had to
replace the struts on his T-craft, not because they had rusted out (There
is absolutely no apparent rust inside the struts) but because the directive
from the FAA said they had to be replaced. The front struts have the strap
around them and I guess I'll have to make a strap for the rear struts.
That is still a few weeks off. I had to take about a year off from
building because of my wife's illness. She passed away in May of this year
so I guess that I will have time to get back on the project now.
On Mon, Jun 30, 2014 at 7:15 AM, Michael Perez
wrote:
> Thank you all for the ideas and pictures. I will be making straps and
> forgo the drill/eye bolt idea. Jim M., I like that way of making the
> straps...will be considering that idea more.
>
> If God is your co-pilot...switch seats.
> Mike Perez
> Karetaker Aero
> STILL Building...
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Brodhead light this year |
| From: | "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com> |
I don't know anything about a "group" fly up on Sunday, but I'm planning on heading
out then, hopefully Jeff B will be as well.
The Hatz guys have arranged some group parking for "vintage homebuilts" at the
convention, and have invited us. A gent named Kevin Conner said he'd get hold
of us during Brodhead with details.
I've never flown in before, hoping to tag along with someone as I may not even
have a radio!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425770#425770
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <jack(at)bedfordlandings.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Aluminum Wing Strut/Jury Strut Attachment |
Charles, I'm saddened to hear about your wife's passing. Hopefully she's in
a better place now. I think you'll find working on your Pietenpol to be the
best "Grief Therapy" you can find.
Good luck to you.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake (W91), Virginia
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charles N.
Campbell
Sent: Monday, June 30, 2014 10:29 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aluminum Wing Strut/Jury Strut Attachment
I bought a set of Taylorcraft struts from a friend of mine who had to
replace the struts on his T-craft, not because they had rusted out (There is
absolutely no apparent rust inside the struts) but because the directive
from the FAA said they had to be replaced. The front struts have the strap
around them and I guess I'll have to make a strap for the rear struts. That
is still a few weeks off. I had to take about a year off from building
because of my wife's illness. She passed away in May of this year so I
guess that I will have time to get back on the project now.
On Mon, Jun 30, 2014 at 7:15 AM, Michael Perez
wrote:
Thank you all for the ideas and pictures. I will be making straps and forgo
the drill/eye bolt idea. Jim M., I like that way of making the straps...will
be considering that idea more.
If God is your co-pilot...switch seats.
Mike Perez
Karetaker Aero
STILL Building...
" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Engelkenjohn" <mushface1(at)gmail.com> |
I am ordering the spruce for my spars today from Wicks but have some
questions. Am building the 3 piece wing. The spar butt joint straps in
the center section that connect the spars to the center section will
require the ribs to be cut out to fit over them or the ribs will all
have to be spaced 1/8=9D further apart front to rear with a strip
of 1/8=9D X 4 3/4=9D plywood.
Trying to determine which method to use. What is the best way or what
have others done? Think I remember reading years back of the plywood
method on this list.
Dennis
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Aluminum Wing Strut/Jury Strut Attachment |
| From: | Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com> |
After some research I did the following on my Piper struts.
I stripped and derusted the outside. (I found wrapping them in aluminum
foil while coated with stripper worked best. followed by steel wool.
Then rustoleum self etching primer and White Rustoleum auto paint
(rattlecan)
Then I Then put a tiny light inside one end and took a look. Some rust but
notihing bad. This plane was kept indoors.
Then i plugged one end (with the threaded attachement)
Bought Boiled Linseed oil (($19 per gallon, I would have preferred raw as
it does not harden, but boiled is good also.)
Heated the linseed oil up (in a big pot of water on a outdoor propane
burner) to about 150F
Used a funnel and hose to pour it inside each strut. (I put in way more
than needed, but it is cheap)
Plugged the holes with my gloved fingers and Rolled the struts all over the
axis for about 5 minutes each. You could hear it slosh.
Poured most out, but left some in and leaned them in the corner waiting to
go to the airport.
I will "reslosh" before I put them on.
I put the extra back in the gallon can, so now I have 7/8ths of a gallon
left. Too bad it cannot be used with Latex paint.
I decided not to do the AD required Maule Fabric test on it for 2 reasons,
1. It beats up a $300 dollar Maule fabric tester and 2. It beats up your
strut. THis test is where you put graph paper on the bottom end of the
strut and punch the strut in each square, thin wall dents. I will borrow an
ultrasonic metal thinckness tester and use that.
Why linseed oil and not the newer oils? I looked at CorrosionX, LPS, ACF50
and several other products. None seemed to do much more than what the
Linseed oil would do. It flows in well and (especially heated) fills all
the little crevaces and seals holes. Then it hardens, first as it cools and
then more as it ages, to a waxy oxygen barrier. (Raw stays more waxy,
Boiled eventually gets hard.) So no more rust production without O2. Each
year Just retreat, Cheap and predictable results.
Blue Skies,
Steve D.
On Mon, Jun 30, 2014 at 9:28 AM, Charles N. Campbell <
charlescampbell1924(at)gmail.com> wrote:
> I bought a set of Taylorcraft struts from a friend of mine who had to
> replace the struts on his T-craft, not because they had rusted out (There
> is absolutely no apparent rust inside the struts) but because the directive
> from the FAA said they had to be replaced. The front struts have the strap
> around them and I guess I'll have to make a strap for the rear struts.
> That is still a few weeks off. I had to take about a year off from
> building because of my wife's illness. She passed away in May of this year
> so I guess that I will have time to get back on the project now.
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 30, 2014 at 7:15 AM, Michael Perez
> wrote:
>
>> Thank you all for the ideas and pictures. I will be making straps and
>> forgo the drill/eye bolt idea. Jim M., I like that way of making the
>> straps...will be considering that idea more.
>>
>> If God is your co-pilot...switch seats.
>> Mike Perez
>> Karetaker Aero
>> STILL Building...
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>> " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>> tp://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com/>
>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>
>> *
>>
>>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
--
Blue Skies,
Steve D
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Brodhead help |
| From: | "DaveG601XL" <david.m.gallagher(at)ge.com> |
Douwe,
I plan to drive from Cincinnati to Brodhead this year. I should arrive in Brodhead
on Saturday morning and will overnight before moving on up to Oshkosh for
the week. I will send you my contact info to your e-mail.
--------
David Gallagher
Zodiac 601 XL-B: flying, 250+ hours now
Next project under construction: Finish my father's Aircamper
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425776#425776
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | steel tube jury strut idea, ala Aeronca Champ |
VGhpcyB3b3JrZWQgd2VsbCBmb3IgbXkgc3RyZWFtbGluZWQgc3RlZWwgbGlmdCBzdHJ1dHMuDQoN
Ck1pa2UgQy4NCg0KT2hpbw0KDQoNCg0KDQo
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Weston <smikewest(at)comcast.net> |
well according to wikkepedia,the early 22r engines made 128 ftpounds at 2800 rpm(torque
peak) thats about 68 HP.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Kenney <brian.kenney(at)live.ca> |
Ivan Bellworthy's is a y4 http://www.toyota-industries.com/component/prod
ucts/y4.html
> From: smikewest(at)comcast.net
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Engines
> Date: Mon=2C 30 Jun 2014 17:36:15 -0500
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>
et>
>
> well according to wikkepedia=2Cthe early 22r engines made 128 ftpounds at
2800 rpm(torque peak) thats about 68 HP.
>
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>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <peter.griffiths(at)roadrunner.com> |
| Subject: | Brodhead & Oshkosh 2014 |
My partner Steve Williamson & I are planning to fly our Air Camper N1279Z to Brodhead
leaving our home base F70 (Murrieta CA) on Sunday July 20th. We will route
south of Phoenix, up the Rio Grande Valley to Tucumcari then NE to Brodhead.
Along with our wives who are traveling by car we will stay at Brodhead until
the 27th & then depart for Oshkosh leaving for the return journey on Monday
August 4th. We hope to have the chance to meet a number of you & look forward
to an opportunity to share memories of what should be a great adventure.
Peter Griffiths
N1279Z
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Brodhead & Oshkosh 2014 |
| From: | "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org> |
Peter and Steve,
Enjoy the to flight. Looks like you are flying the route dad and I took in 96.
Have fun.
Cheers,
--------
Scott Liefeld
Flying N11MS since March 1972
Steel Tube
C-85-12
Wire Wheels
Brodhead in 1996
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425801#425801
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Brodhead & Oshkosh 2014 |
| From: | Peter Griffiths <peter.griffiths(at)roadrunner.com> |
Pretty much
Peter
Sent from my iPhone
> On Jun 30, 2014, at 17:11, "AircamperN11MS" wrote:
>
>
> Peter and Steve,
> Enjoy the to flight. Looks like you are flying the route dad and I took in 96.
Have fun.
> Cheers,
>
> --------
> Scott Liefeld
> Flying N11MS since March 1972
> Steel Tube
> C-85-12
> Wire Wheels
> Brodhead in 1996
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425801#425801
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Brodhead & Oshkosh 2014 |
| From: | "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com> |
WOW, that's fantastic. Have a safe journey, make sure the ground crew knows how
to post here to keep us updated... unless of course your Piet has a glass cockpit
and you can do it enroute!
Of course (Scott), two planes are (Scott) better than (Scott) one, and the mutual
(Scott) backup would be (Scott) great... just (Scott) sayin'..
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425803#425803
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Brodhead & Oshkosh 2014 |
| From: | Peter Griffiths <peter.griffiths(at)roadrunner.com> |
We may have CT Light Sport coming with us
Peter
N1279Z
Sent from my iPhone
> On Jun 30, 2014, at 18:03, "tools" wrote:
>
>
> WOW, that's fantastic. Have a safe journey, make sure the ground crew knows
how to post here to keep us updated... unless of course your Piet has a glass
cockpit and you can do it enroute!
>
> Of course (Scott), two planes are (Scott) better than (Scott) one, and the mutual
(Scott) backup would be (Scott) great... just (Scott) sayin'..
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425803#425803
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Weston <smikewest(at)comcast.net> |
O.K. i think you're on to something, i just posted about the 22r horsepower @2800RPM
however, the 22r has the spark plugs on the other side of the motor than
the one in the photo.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: barnstorming fly in |
I missed the fly-in schedule.- Is it this weekend in Springfield Ohio? I
missed any info on this.=0A-=0AShad =0A=0A=0AOn Monday, June 30, 2014 7:4
9 AM, Douwe Blumberg wrote:=0A =0A=0A=0A-->
Pietenpol-List message posted by: Douwe Blumberg =0A=0AI'm planning on flying up to the Barnstorming fly in in springfiel
d with my daughter for Saturday, leaving Sunday IF the weather is nice.-
This'll only be her third flight so it needs to be smooth.- might fly up
=========
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ray Krause <raykrause(at)frontiernet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: steel tube jury strut idea, ala Aeronca Champ |
I had intended to mention that the Aeronca does use an eye bolt through the m
ain struts to secure the jury struts. The eye bolt does pass through a 3/16 I
D tube that is welded through the strut. The Aeronca folks were pretty brave
to do something that the Cub folks did not do! The bracket that Mike has dr
awn certainly makes attachment of the jury strut to the spar very easy and c
lean.
Thanks,
Ray Krause
Building SkyScout...slowly
Sent from my iPad
> On Jun 30, 2014, at 2:22 PM, "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners,
LLC]" wrote:
>
> This worked well for my streamlined steel lift struts.
>
> Mike C.
> Ohio
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Brodhead & Oshkosh 2014 |
| From: | "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org> |
Sure wish I could go with them. It would most certainly be fun. While you guys
are all having fun I will be moving to a new hangar. My hangar partner of 19 years
is selling his plane. Time to get my own but smaller hangar. Another time
maybe.
--------
Scott Liefeld
Flying N11MS since March 1972
Steel Tube
C-85-12
Wire Wheels
Brodhead in 1996
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425809#425809
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "AG" <aglangerco(at)yahoo.com> |
Hello everybody -
I am new to this board - although I have been reading it for quite some time.
I have been wanting to build a Pietenpol for about 5-6 years now and finally -
I have been able to start a few months ago.
Currently I have the tail section built and I am in the process of joining the
fuselage together. - I will try to post some pics soon.
Anyway enough introduction - this is my first aircraft project and so I will probably
be asking for help often!
...and now for my first question!
I am thinking through what I want to do for a tail wheel -
for those who modified the "plans" tail skid with coil spring - where did you get
your spring? What type of wheel did you use?
I am thinking about the MATCO T-6 tail wheel with the plans built "A-frame/coil
spring set-up"
Has anyone used some non-Aircraft caster/wheel to build a "home-made" tail wheel?
What is the advantage of using the "leaf" style spring/set-up?
Any info/opinions would be welcome help to a newbie!
Thanks,
Andy
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425811#425811
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org> |
Welcome and glad to hear that you are building. Where are you from? There are many
good folks on this list. Some may be near you.
Back to your question. I think Gary Boothe has been down the path you are asking
about. He has flown his plane with both tail wheel scenarios you have mentioned.
Gary, over to you now.
BTW, I have a leaf spring on mine. Go to WWW.westcoastpiet.com. you will find a
lot of info there.
Cheers
--------
Scott Liefeld
Flying N11MS since March 1972
Steel Tube
C-85-12
Wire Wheels
Brodhead in 1996
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425812#425812
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "AG" <aglangerco(at)yahoo.com> |
I'm in the Milwaukee area (I will be flying out of Timmerman Field MWC when the
ship is complete)
It's great to live in WI because we are less than 2hours drive from EAA and Brodhead
- my brother and I camp out each year at both events! -
Hopefully soon I won't be driving - but rather flying to these events!
Andy
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425813#425813
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Groah <dskogrover(at)yahoo.com> |
Welcome. I have the plans A frame with a Matco tail wheel. I really like it.
It works very well. I did change from the pneumatic tire to a solid one because
of several flat tires. The adaption was fairly simple. There are some pics
on westcoastpiet. Example :
http://www.westcoastpiet.com/images/WCP_2013_Gathering/IMG_0712.JPG
Mike Groah
414MV
Tulare CA
Sent from my iPad
> On Jun 30, 2014, at 7:58 PM, "AircamperN11MS" wrote:
>
>
> Welcome and glad to hear that you are building. Where are you from? There are
many good folks on this list. Some may be near you.
> Back to your question. I think Gary Boothe has been down the path you are asking
about. He has flown his plane with both tail wheel scenarios you have mentioned.
> Gary, over to you now.
>
> BTW, I have a leaf spring on mine. Go to WWW.westcoastpiet.com. you will find
a lot of info there.
>
> Cheers
>
> --------
> Scott Liefeld
> Flying N11MS since March 1972
> Steel Tube
> C-85-12
> Wire Wheels
> Brodhead in 1996
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425812#425812
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "AG" <aglangerco(at)yahoo.com> |
That seems to be a nice set-up...
Where are you guys getting the spring?
Andy
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425816#425816
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
Thank you, Scott! Let's hear it for Scott Liefeld [BIG applause]...
Andy,
Welcome to the best 4-6 years of your life!...or, as with some, the best 16
years of your life!
Yes, I have been down two roads when it comes to tail wheels. That's not
that unusual, either. There are builders here who share my experience...and
those who have experienced the inverse (going from leaf spring back to
A-frame!). Simply put, there is nothing wrong with Mr. Pietenpol's A-frame
design. Mike Groah is a good example. His plans-built tail wheel gear sports
a Matco 4" pneumatic wheel...and functions perfectly. Kevin Purtee did as I,
and abandoned his A-frame for a leaf spring and a 4" Matco tail wheel and
liked the result. So far, I am ecstatic with mine! "Ecstatic"...was that too
much emotion?
My main gear is pretty narrow...about 52". My tail wheel was the small
experimental one from ACS, with my own hand made swivel, ears, etc. Cable
linkage was provided from the rudder pedals, which had spring returns. All
these things added to my early difficulties, and I drug wing tips 3
different times, plus my 15,000 hr test pilot/instructor drug a wing tip
once! William Wynn says that, with my narrow gear, if I can fly the past 20+
hrs and only drag 3 tips without ground looping, I could land a P51 with a
flat tire! Well, we know that ain't true...but you get the point.
I have a plan to widen the gear, which will happen this Winter, but I have
changed the tail wheel to a leaf spring and a Matco 4" solid wheel. Moving
the wheel that far back allowed me to hook directly to a rudder bar (see
attached). I have since tightened those springs. I can now drop in from 5'
(not that I would ever do that...;-)), and the tail no longer wanders. Yes,
"ecstatic" is the word I would use!
>From what I have seen, making your own mounting device, using the plans
design...those are not the issues. I could never tighten up my tail wheel
cables because to do so would loosen the rudder cables. That was caused by
the spring returns that I have on the pedals. Other designs would work just
fine.
BTW...I think 6" is too big.
Enjoy your dream and your planning...but, GET TO WORK!!
Gary Boothe
NX308MB
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
AircamperN11MS
Sent: Monday, June 30, 2014 7:59 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Tail wheel
-->
Welcome and glad to hear that you are building. Where are you from? There
are many good folks on this list. Some may be near you.
Back to your question. I think Gary Boothe has been down the path you are
asking about. He has flown his plane with both tail wheel scenarios you have
mentioned.
Gary, over to you now.
BTW, I have a leaf spring on mine. Go to WWW.westcoastpiet.com. you will
find a lot of info there.
Cheers
--------
Scott Liefeld
Flying N11MS since March 1972
Steel Tube
C-85-12
Wire Wheels
Brodhead in 1996
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425812#425812
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com> |
The bad news... this one question is gonna yield a dozen or so answers...
The good news... this is EXACTLY the kind of thing you go to Brodhead to help you
decide what you wanna try!
I've got a Matco, 4" solid, 2 leafs, cables directly from the rudder bar. Probably
about as "modern standard" as it gets. My son and I both learned to fly
tailwheel with this setup. I like it alot. I have no experience with the more
authentic A frame setup whatsoever.
Tools
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425818#425818
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: steel tube jury strut idea, ala Aeronca Champ |
| From: | "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca> |
One point to keep in mind is the material of the struts.
The Aeronca design, as illustrated by Mike, is used on steel struts. Welds in
steel, when done properly, are as strong as the base metal.
Aluminum, however, is a different story. Some alloys of aluminum are greatly affected
by welding. When Alloy 6061-T6 (which is the alloy that Carlson Struts
are made of) is welded, the base material loses its temper in the weld zone
- effectively reducing the strength to approximately 25% of the original strength.
This strength can be restored, through heat treating, but this is an expensive
process. Best to avoid welding 6061-T6 in any area where strength is a
concern.
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425826#425826
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <jack(at)bedfordlandings.com> |
Andy, I noticed nobody has answered your question as to where to get the
compression spring. I know many have used a spring from John Deere, but
they are very proud of their parts and charge accordingly. I used a
compression spring from McMaster-Carr:
http://www.mcmaster.com/#compression-springs/=snaoy4 . The one I used was
part number 96485K141. it is 6" long overall, with an outside diameter of
1.93", a wire diameter of .25" and a spring constant of 116 lbs per inch.
It costs $11.17 and works very well.
Just to confuse you further, I originally had a 6" Scott tailwheel on a leaf
spring from a Piper PA-12. After a forced landing which caused a
groundloop, the leaf spring was torn from the lower longerons, resulting in
substantial damage to the longerons - which is something to think about.
Most leafsprings are designed to attach to welded steel tube fuselages. You
can do it with wood, but the attach structure needs to be well thought out
(mine obviously wasn't). During the rebuild, I changed to the A-Frame
design. The first one I built strictly to the plans. I found that it was
too wimpy torsionally, and steering loads on the tailwheel (which that
design was never intended to withstand, since it was designed for a skid
with no steering loads) caused the whole A-Frame to twist. Here is a
picture of the first A-Frame I built:
Note that I had the tailwheel aft of the compression spring, which I'm sure
exacerbated the twisting problems. I flew this assembly for about 4 hours
and then one day while taxiing for takeoff the tailwheel simply broke off as
I turned around for my runup. Glad that didn't happen on landing!
I rebuilt the tailwheel assembly using an A-Frame of heavier tubing, and
with a crossbar at the front, making it a rigid triangle. I also moved the
tailwheel underneath the compression spring. This assembly has worked well
for over 300 hours and many bad landings. It also uses the 4"
"Homebuilder's Special" tailwheel from ACS that is not entirely
satisfactory. It tends to go into free swivel very easily when turning
left, and is difficult to break into free swivel when turning right. I
probably need to take it apart and make some adjustments
Good luck, and welcome to the wonderful world of Pietenpols and
Pietenpeople!
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Smith Mountain Lake (W91), Virginia
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of AG
Sent: Monday, June 30, 2014 10:44 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Tail wheel
Hello everybody -
I am new to this board - although I have been reading it for quite some
time.
I have been wanting to build a Pietenpol for about 5-6 years now and finally
- I have been able to start a few months ago.
Currently I have the tail section built and I am in the process of joining
the fuselage together. - I will try to post some pics soon.
Anyway enough introduction - this is my first aircraft project and so I will
probably be asking for help often!
...and now for my first question!
I am thinking through what I want to do for a tail wheel -
for those who modified the "plans" tail skid with coil spring - where did
you get your spring? What type of wheel did you use?
I am thinking about the MATCO T-6 tail wheel with the plans built
"A-frame/coil spring set-up"
Has anyone used some non-Aircraft caster/wheel to build a "home-made" tail
wheel?
What is the advantage of using the "leaf" style spring/set-up?
Any info/opinions would be welcome help to a newbie!
Thanks,
Andy
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425811#425811
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "echobravo4" <eab4(at)comcast.net> |
Hi Andy, welcome aboard!
The tailwheel spring you can get from John Deere-
The part number is T143444
Think it was about 50 bucks-
I don't have the sizes in front of me, but it is slightly larger
in diameter than what is called for in the plans, so the
Tubing for the cups that the springs go into needs to be
slightly larger as well
--------
Earl Brown
I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I
intended to be.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425829#425829
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Fay <jfay1950(at)gmail.com> |
Yes, the Ford Cortina engine is already on the list.
John Fay
in Peoria
On Mon, Jun 30, 2014 at 7:22 AM, Steven Dortch
wrote:
> The article also mentions a Ford Cortina engine. Extensive research
> (Google) shows that the Cortina had a 1.7 or 2.0 liter engine. Would that
> be new to the engine list?
>
> Blue Skies,
> Steve D
>
> On Sun, Jun 29, 2014 at 7:50 PM, Brian Kenney
> wrote:
>
>> I believe it is a 4Y engine which is a pushrod engine not with an
>> overhead cam
>>
>> > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Engines
>> > From: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
>> > Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2014 14:40:22 -0700
>> > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>>
>> >
>> taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
>> >
>> > OK... sorry... I found out that the Kiwi Piet uses the Toyota 22R
>> engine but that still doesn't help figure out how much power it's making.
>> They are variously rated at 97-108 HP at 4800-5000 RPM.
>> >
>> > --------
>> > Oscar Zuniga
>> > Medford, OR
>> > Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
>>
>> > A75 power
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Read this topic online here:
>> >
>> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425740#425740
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >==========
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>> *
>>
>> " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>> ttp://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com/>
>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Blue Skies,
> Steve D
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Douwe <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> |
Welcome aboard Andy!
Search the archives and you'll assuredly find discussion about where guys found
their springs. I've heard a John Deere spring and others, just don't recall
specifics
I have the plans unit and made up my own tail wheel using a small wheel from McMaster
Carr.
My humble observations thru the years is that the plans design is very good, just
needs a cross piece added ahead I'd the wheel since it wasn't designed for
steering loads originally. I feel it is actually stronger in a side load condition
and light.
Douwe
Sent from my iPhone
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
Hello Andy. Later this month will mark my 6th year of building. I am curren
tly doing a full assembly of the plane needed to measure/layout and fabrica
te the last few items and to get an initial W&B.- It has all gone by quit
e fast.=0A=0A=0AThe spring I used is from a John Deere tractor. I bought tw
o of them new and if interested, I can get the part number from the spare I
have at home.- I am using the small homebuilders tail wheen from ACS, it
is a 4" wheel...I agree that 6" would be a too big and heavy. You can see
from the pictures that I made my own steerable tail wheel assembly and adap
ted the homebuilders wheel. I also modified the "A" frame mounts at the fus
elage to wrap around the frame and use through bolts. The ends of the "A" f
rame were modified with the tube-through-tube idea used on the control torq
ue tube assembly.-=0A=0AIf you have been following the list some, you may
have seen the posts concerning rudder control horn attachment. That thread
progressed into tail wheel cables and the like which you may find interest
ing.=0A=0AI can't compare the "A" arm set-up to the leaf spring as I don't
have any experience with it.=0A=0A=0AHaving not been flight tested, none of
this may be worth much, but it may get you to consider other ideas.=0A-
=0A=0AIf God is your co-pilot...switch seats. =0AMike Perez =0AKaretaker Ae
ro =0ASTILL Building...=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ray Krause <raykrause(at)frontiernet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: steel tube jury strut idea, ala Aeronca Champ |
Bill,
Thanks, great information. Bicycle frames are often made from 6061-T6 (many Raleigh
bikes that I sold in a past life). The welding was once done in the USA but
is now all done in China. The welds are beautiful and the frames are heat treated
after welding, as I remember. There are several ways of doing this, but
I don't remember! Is one purging the frames with non-oxygen gas during welding?
Seems like something the home builder should be able to do at home!
Gary Booth put me in contact with a friend of his who had a supply of strut aero
aluminum in his hanger. I got enough for my SkyScout at a good price. Guess
I will use straps for the jury strut attach points since my purge tanks are low
and the struts won't fit in my wife's oven!
Thanks,
Ray Krause
Sent from my iPad
> On Jul 1, 2014, at 4:58 AM, "Bill Church" wrote:
>
>
> One point to keep in mind is the material of the struts.
> The Aeronca design, as illustrated by Mike, is used on steel struts. Welds in
steel, when done properly, are as strong as the base metal.
> Aluminum, however, is a different story. Some alloys of aluminum are greatly
affected by welding. When Alloy 6061-T6 (which is the alloy that Carlson Struts
are made of) is welded, the base material loses its temper in the weld zone
- effectively reducing the strength to approximately 25% of the original strength.
This strength can be restored, through heat treating, but this is an expensive
process. Best to avoid welding 6061-T6 in any area where strength is
a concern.
>
> Bill C.
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425826#425826
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: steel tube jury strut idea, ala Aeronca Champ |
| From: | "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca> |
Ray,
No, unfortunately it isn't as simple as purging.
Effectively, when 6061-T6 gets welded, the metal in the weld zone loses all of
its tempering, and goes back to the annealed state (T-zero).
In order to return to T6 temper, the weldment will need to be solution heat treated,
and then artificially aged. Solution heat treatment involves carefully
heating the weldment in an oven to a pretty high temperature, around 980F (too
hot and the aluminum just melts), and held for about an hour, then quickly cooled,
by quenching. Once returned to room temperature, the aluminum is again
heated, and held at a set temperature for a specified time. For aging, the temperatures
are in the range of typical kitchen ovens ( 325 - 400F). When you
stick a toothpick in, and it comes out dry, you're done. (just kidding about the
toothpick test).
So, I doubt that any homebuilder is going to be up to the task of re-tempering
aluminum lift struts after welding. For those using aluminum struts, fabricating
a few strap fittings would be a much less daunting task
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425859#425859
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org> |
Gary,
You are very welcome. :) The bus I threw you under looked like a small one from
where I was standing, But, perhaps it was further down the street and bigger
than I thought when I glanced at it. Hope you just got bruised a little and didn't
get any broken bones.
Just the devil inside me I guess, Cheers,
--------
Scott Liefeld
Flying N11MS since March 1972
Steel Tube
C-85-12
Wire Wheels
Brodhead in 1996
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425866#425866
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
It was no problem, Scott! Re-telling the story helps to remind me of the
travelled road...a road I am very fortunate to be on!!
Gary Boothe
NX308MB
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
AircamperN11MS
Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2014 12:00 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Tail wheel
-->
Gary,
You are very welcome. :) The bus I threw you under looked like a small one
from where I was standing, But, perhaps it was further down the street and
bigger than I thought when I glanced at it. Hope you just got bruised a
little and didn't get any broken bones.
Just the devil inside me I guess, Cheers,
--------
Scott Liefeld
Flying N11MS since March 1972
Steel Tube
C-85-12
Wire Wheels
Brodhead in 1996
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425866#425866
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "AG" <aglangerco(at)yahoo.com> |
Wow - this board is great -
Thanks for all the info!
and - here's another question.
I have heard some opinions that connecting the tail wheel directly to the rudder
will put too much stress on the rudder.
I got some drawings from Bill Rewey for a set-up which runs a separate set of cables
from the tail wheel up to just behind the pilot's seat and then connects
them there with split-bolt connectors to the main rudder cables.
Obviously you guys are flying with the direct connection - any problems with that?
Thanks
Andy
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425889#425889
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org> |
Andy,
Pay no attention to the way mine is hooked up. I have a steel tube fuse and tail
feathers. Totally different than most all other piets.
--------
Scott Liefeld
Flying N11MS since March 1972
Steel Tube
C-85-12
Wire Wheels
Brodhead in 1996
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425892#425892
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ray Krause <raykrause(at)frontiernet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: steel tube jury strut idea, ala Aeronca Champ |
Thanks, Bill. I wonder how a bicycle mfg could afford to do all that? There is
no that much profit in a $300.00 bike! Maybe if you are set up for it and can
handle large volumes, that would do it.
I'm sorry to hear you lost your wife. That almost happened to me last year, so
I understand.
Thanks for taking the time to explain all that.
Ray Krause
Sent from my iPad
> On Jul 1, 2014, at 10:19 AM, "Bill Church" wrote:
>
>
> Ray,
> No, unfortunately it isn't as simple as purging.
> Effectively, when 6061-T6 gets welded, the metal in the weld zone loses all of
its tempering, and goes back to the annealed state (T-zero).
> In order to return to T6 temper, the weldment will need to be solution heat treated,
and then artificially aged. Solution heat treatment involves carefully
heating the weldment in an oven to a pretty high temperature, around 980F (too
hot and the aluminum just melts), and held for about an hour, then quickly
cooled, by quenching. Once returned to room temperature, the aluminum is again
heated, and held at a set temperature for a specified time. For aging, the
temperatures are in the range of typical kitchen ovens ( 325 - 400F). When you
stick a toothpick in, and it comes out dry, you're done. (just kidding about
the toothpick test).
> So, I doubt that any homebuilder is going to be up to the task of re-tempering
aluminum lift struts after welding. For those using aluminum struts, fabricating
a few strap fittings would be a much less daunting task
>
> Bill C.
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425859#425859
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: steel tube jury strut idea, ala Aeronca Champ |
| From: | "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca> |
Yikes, Ray.
I didn't lose my wife. Haven't even misplaced her.
I think maybe you've got me mixed up with Chuck Campbell. I believe he recently
mentioned his wife's passing.
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425897#425897
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Tailwheel steering |
| From: | Douwe <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> |
Andy
I personally like a separate set of cables to steer the tailwheel and have been
happy with it. I set it up just like bill rewey did.
One often overlooked issue is steering ratio. To avoid an overly squirrelly steering
response the wheel should turn the same ratio (or even less IMHO) than
the rudder. This requires the wheel steering horns be the same length as on the
rudder
I used a 3" wheel to keep weight down and everyone told me it wouldn't have steering
authority and it would wear out real quick but it's working great. I just
bought ten at the same time thinking I'd change it each season and haven't
changed it after about 75hrs
I just don't think we really need these big honkin' wheels back there
$.02
Douwe
Sent from my iPhone
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Tailwheel steering |
Ray-I spliced in (nicopress sleeve) a separate set of cables like Bill Rewe
y, Douwe, & others have done to the rudder control
cables just under the pilot seat and they have worked very well over the ye
ars.
Be sure to follow the guidelines that Tony Bingelis outlines in his Sportpl
ane Builder series of books on the proper selection and
installation of aircraft cables and pullies and especially pulley guard saf
ety straps/wires when installling these cables (and all other cables as wel
l)
and you'll have many years of worry-free and trouble-free flying.
Mike C.
Ohio
[cid:image001.jpg(at)01CF95D2.D41A2DF0]
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-lis
t-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Douwe
Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2014 8:20 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Tailwheel steering
--> >
Andy
I personally like a separate set of cables to steer the tailwheel and have
been happy with it. I set it up just like bill rewey did.
One often overlooked issue is steering ratio. To avoid an overly squirrell
y steering response the wheel should turn the same ratio (or even less IMHO
) than the rudder. This requires the wheel steering horns be the same leng
th as on the rudder
I used a 3" wheel to keep weight down and everyone told me it wouldn't have
steering authority and it would wear out real quick but it's working great
. I just bought ten at the same time thinking I'd change it each season an
d haven't changed it after about 75hrs
I just don't think we really need these big honkin' wheels back there
$.02
Douwe
Sent from my iPhone
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | santiago morete <moretesantiago(at)yahoo.com.ar> |
| Subject: | Trip to Brodhead |
Hi everyone!=0AI'll be traveling to the USA and visiting Brodhead for just
one day. This is my second time, first was in 2008 and had a wonderful expe
rience thanks to Dan Helsper and his family. This year I'll be there with m
y girlfriend Paula and a very special lady, Betty, Dan's mother.=0A=0AAs so
me of you know, I'm from Argentina and have been building a Model A powered
Piet since september 2004. The airframe is finished and all covered but I'
m waiting for the engine to be assembled.-=0A=0AThere are some items I wo
uld like to acquire while in the USA. If any of you have a decent set of pl
ans to sell, I'll be happy to buy them, mine are very worn-out and I would
like to have a new set to preserve. Also I'm looking for two nice goggles (
e.g. Halcyon, Climax). We are not allowed to import things freely here, so
I don't mind to pay the full "store" price for these items.-=0A=0AI hope
to meet as many of you as possible.=0ASaludos!=0A=0ASantiago
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | ###4th FLIGHT### |
| From: | "Chris Rusch" <rmdinfo(at)rmdbenders.com> |
Just a short clip of what's going on.
I took everybody suggestions.....I twisted the tail, added a shim and still no
change. Terrible stick pressure to keep the nose up.
Re-checked weight and balance and yes it is forward at 15.9"
I bought two lead shot bags at 25 lbs each and that's the next step is to put one
along side of the driver and see if it make s a change, one at a time.
On a funny note, im the only guy with a nose heavy Pietenpol!! should have built
the long fuse version!
http://youtu.be/o02X2V7F4VM
--------
NX321LR
Now test flying!!
Mitsubishi Powered
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425917#425917
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: ###4th FLIGHT### |
| From: | Michael Groah <dskogrover(at)yahoo.com> |
You're not the only one. My cg is also towards the front of the envelope. I
have a long fuse, Corvair powered Piet. I have my horizontal twisted to compensate.
I moved my wing too far back in the build and I think this winter I'll
move my wing forward some so I can take the twist out of the stab. It flies
nice how it is though. I had the engine shut down on take off due to carb
ice while taking my first passenger up (my wife). With the forward cg the nose
came right down and was very controllable. We made a safe landing off airport
and yes, my wife still flies with me.
Mike Groah
Tulare CA
414MV
Sent from my iPad
> On Jul 2, 2014, at 7:23 AM, "Chris Rusch" wrote:
> Me.
>
> Just a short clip of what's going on.
> I took everybody suggestions.....I twisted the tail, added a shim and still no
change. Terrible stick pressure to keep the nose up.
> Re-checked weight and balance and yes it is forward at 15.9"
> I bought two lead shot bags at 25 lbs each and that's the next step is to put
one along side of the driver and see if it make s a change, one at a time.
>
> On a funny note, im the only guy with a nose heavy Pietenpol!! should have built
the long fuse version!
>
>
> http://youtu.be/o02X2V7F4VM
>
> --------
> NX321LR
> Now test flying!!
> Mitsubishi Powered
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425917#425917
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca> |
Don't think this one has actually taken flight (yet).
But if/when it does, I'm sure it will be a "first".
http://msumadvocate.com/2013/10/22/its-electric-physics-prof-builds-experimental-plane/
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425927#425927
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: ###4th FLIGHT### |
| From: | Gene Rambo <generambo(at)msn.com> |
Move the wing forward....
Gene
On Jul 2, 2014, at 10:23 AM, "Chris Rusch" wrote:
>
> Just a short clip of what's going on.
> I took everybody suggestions.....I twisted the tail, added a shim and still no
change. Terrible stick pressure to keep the nose up.
> Re-checked weight and balance and yes it is forward at 15.9"
> I bought two lead shot bags at 25 lbs each and that's the next step is to put
one along side of the driver and see if it make s a change, one at a time.
>
> On a funny note, im the only guy with a nose heavy Pietenpol!! should have built
the long fuse version!
>
>
> http://youtu.be/o02X2V7F4VM
>
> --------
> NX321LR
> Now test flying!!
> Mitsubishi Powered
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425917#425917
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Chris Rusch stick-nose heavy conditioin |
Chris-forgive me if this has already been covered but your rear cabane stru
t is one inch shorter than the front strut yes as the plans show?
I agree with Gene that moving the wing forward should help but your 25 poun
d bags of shot next to you in the rear seat should be (one at a time
as you say) a very good experiment.
You're probably one of the few Pietnpol pilots who actually has a very dece
nt, even possibly a low, body mass index! I'd gladly fly your Pietenp
ol
around to let you know what 210 pounds in the rear seat will do for your st
ick/CG forces:) !
You are doing GREAT. Your plane is stunningly beautiful, you are breakin
g great new ground with that Mitsubishi engine, and your video is excellent
and I'm sure it will inspire those new to the list to keep on building!
Mike C.
Ohio
PS- I can send you my diet plan if you like......:) !
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o02X2V7F4VM&feature=youtu.be
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Boatright, Jeffrey" <jeffboatright(at)emory.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Brodhead light this year |
I am pulling the plug on my 2014 flight to Brodhead and Oshkosh. We=92ve ha
d a serious setback at work, an administrative self-inflicted wound that is
badly affecting my program (over half the income to the lab). I can=92t be
away from the group until it=92s resolved, and that doesn=92t look to be h
appening any time soon. I=92m probably going to have to pull the plug on a
professional trip that was also planned for this month, so this isn=92t jus
t affecting =93play time."
Big, big bummer.
You guys have a great time and please send photos, movies, and commentary!
Sent from an iPhone with a spelling problem
On Jun 30, 2014, at 10:00 AM, "woodflier" > wrote:
I'm planning on flying my Piet up from Virginia, leaving Wednesday, the 23r
d and arriving Thursday or Friday, depending on weather.
Are there any plans to fly a group of Piets on Sunday to Oshkosh. I'm in fo
r that.
Matt Paxton
NX629ML
________________________________
This e-mail message (including any attachments) is for the sole use of
the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged
information. If the reader of this message is not the intended
recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution
or copying of this message (including any attachments) is strictly
prohibited.
If you have received this message in error, please contact
the sender by reply e-mail message and destroy all copies of the
original message (including attachments).
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Yocum <yocum137(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: ###4th FLIGHT### |
On 07/02/2014 10:56 AM, Gene Rambo wrote:
>
> Move the wing forward....
That's what I was going to say. From the video we see that you've
slanted the cabanes back - that's only necessary with the lighter
Continentals.
How much shorter are your rear cabanes?
>
> Gene
>
> On Jul 2, 2014, at 10:23 AM, "Chris Rusch" wrote:
>
>>
>> Just a short clip of what's going on.
>> I took everybody suggestions.....I twisted the tail, added a shim and still
no change. Terrible stick pressure to keep the nose up.
>> Re-checked weight and balance and yes it is forward at 15.9"
>> I bought two lead shot bags at 25 lbs each and that's the next step is to put
one along side of the driver and see if it make s a change, one at a time.
>>
>> On a funny note, im the only guy with a nose heavy Pietenpol!! should have built
the long fuse version!
>>
>>
>> http://youtu.be/o02X2V7F4VM
>>
>> --------
>> NX321LR
>> Now test flying!!
>> Mitsubishi Powered
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425917#425917
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Brodhead light this year |
| From: | woodflier <woodflier(at)aol.com> |
Jeff, I'm sorry you can't make it. Have you ever been to the Triple Tree F
ly-In in South Carolina. I went last year, good time and by September maybe
your issues will be fixed. That 7000' grass runway is like a putting green
. I may try that in the Piet this year.
Matt Paxton
Fairfield, VA
NX629ML
-----Original Message-----
From: Boatright, Jeffrey <jeffboatright(at)emory.edu>
Sent: Wed, Jul 2, 2014 1:50 pm
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Brodhead light this year
I am pulling the plug on my 2014 flight to Brodhead and Oshkosh. We
=99ve had a serious setback at work, an administrative self-inflicted wound
that is badly affecting my program (over half the income to the lab). I ca
n=99t be away from the group until it=99s resolved, and that do
esn=99t look to be happening any time soon. I=99m probably goin
g to have to pull the plug on a professional trip that was also planned for
this month, so this isn=99t just affecting =9Cplay time."
Big, big bummer.
You guys have a great time and please send photos, movies, and commentary!
Sent from an iPhone with a spelling problem
On Jun 30, 2014, at 10:00 AM, "woodflier" wrote:
I'm planning on flying my Piet up from Virginia, leaving Wednesday, the 23r
d and arriving Thursday or Friday, depending on weather.
Are there any plans to fly a group of Piets on Sunday to Oshkosh. I'm in fo
r that.
Matt Paxton
NX629ML
">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
ics.com
.matronics.com/contribution
This e-mail message (including any attachments) is for the sole use of
the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged
information. If the reader of this message is not the intended
recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution
or copying of this message (including any attachments) is strictly
prohibited.
If you have received this message in error, please contact
the sender by reply e-mail message and destroy all copies of the
original message (including attachments).
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Boatright, Jeffrey" <jeffboatright(at)emory.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Brodhead light this year |
Hi Matt,
I haven't been to Triple Tree, but two of my hangar mates went last year, s
o it is on my calendar for this year. Hope to see you there.
Jeff
Sent from an iPhone with a spelling problem
On Jul 2, 2014, at 2:20 PM, "woodflier" @aol.com>> wrote:
Jeff, I'm sorry you can't make it. Have you ever been to the Triple Tree Fl
y-In in South Carolina. I went last year, good time and by September maybe
your issues will be fixed. That 7000' grass runway is like a putting green.
I may try that in the Piet this year.
Matt Paxton
Fairfield, VA
NX629ML
-----Original Message-----
From: Boatright, Jeffrey <jeffboatright(at)emory.edu<mailto:jeffboatright@emor
y.edu>>
etenpol-list(at)matronics.com>
Sent: Wed, Jul 2, 2014 1:50 pm
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Brodhead light this year
I am pulling the plug on my 2014 flight to Brodhead and Oshkosh. We=92ve ha
d a serious setback at work, an administrative self-inflicted wound that is
badly affecting my program (over half the income to the lab). I can=92t be
away from the group until it=92s resolved, and that doesn=92t look to be h
appening any time soon. I=92m probably going to have to pull the plug on a
professional trip that was also planned for this month, so this isn=92t jus
t affecting =93play time."
Big, big bummer.
You guys have a great time and please send photos, movies, and commentary!
Sent from an iPhone with a spelling problem
On Jun 30, 2014, at 10:00 AM, "woodflier" > wrote:
I'm planning on flying my Piet up from Virginia, leaving Wednesday, the 23r
d and arriving Thursday or Friday, depending on weather.
Are there any plans to fly a group of Piets on Sunday to Oshkosh. I'm in fo
r that.
Matt Paxton
NX629ML
">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
ics.com<http://ics.com>
.matronics.com/contribution<http://matronics.com/contribution>
________________________________
This e-mail message (including any attachments) is for the sole use of
the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged
information. If the reader of this message is not the intended
recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution
or copying of this message (including any attachments) is strictly
prohibited.
If you have received this message in error, please contact
the sender by reply e-mail message and destroy all copies of the
original message (including attachments).
tor?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
bution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Brodhead light this year |
| From: | Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com> |
I had fully intended on making the pilgrimage but, finances or time simply
will not allow it . Finance and time has also slowed my finish time so I
will spend my Broadhead time working on my Piet.
Blue Skies,
Steve D.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Chris Rusch stick-nose heavy conditioin |
| From: | "Chris Rusch" <rmdinfo(at)rmdbenders.com> |
HI Mike,
Well......first off that not me in the pilot seat, it my mentor test pilot, he
very skilled in T/W airplanes. He is only about 150......me, im with the majority
at 205. that is what we are trying the weight sacks first before moving the
wing or anything drastic.
I am using the riblet, so my cabanes are equal length. There was a post about this
subject and it shows that the if you lay out the wing incidence, the riblet
cabane should be 11/16 shorter in the rear to get the 2deg angle of incidence.
if the sand bags don't help, that's what im going to do.
Thanks for the nice comments! I still want to try a shorter prop and get the RPM's
up more into the power band, but its working fine with the 76 incher I have
on there.
Chris
--------
NX321LR
Now test flying!!
Mitsubishi Powered
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425944#425944
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: ###4th FLIGHT### |
| From: | "Chris Rusch" <rmdinfo(at)rmdbenders.com> |
That's the part that is kinda baffling as the weight and balance is perfect......we
are going to add weight to match a 200 lb guy in the back and see what happens.
If then no improvement, its shorter cabanes and possibly shift the wing
back forward.
--------
NX321LR
Now test flying!!
Mitsubishi Powered
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425946#425946
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Boatright, Jeffrey" <jeffboatright(at)emory.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Brodhead light |
this year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YW5kDQo2MDIgRWFzdCAybmQgQXZlbnVl4oCoDQpCcm9kaGVhZCwgV0kgNTM1MjDigKgNCihDb3Ju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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ray Krause <raykrause(at)frontiernet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: steel tube jury strut idea, ala Aeronca Champ |
Oops, sorry! Guess I will attribute that to old age! My age gets me out of a lot
of jams. I apologize to both you and Chuck.
Regretfully,
Ray Krause
Sent from my iPad
> On Jul 1, 2014, at 8:55 PM, "Bill Church" wrote:
>
>
> Yikes, Ray.
> I didn't lose my wife. Haven't even misplaced her.
>
> I think maybe you've got me mixed up with Chuck Campbell. I believe he recently
mentioned his wife's passing.
>
> Bill C.
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425897#425897
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: ###4th FLIGHT### |
| From: | "William Wynne" <WilliamTCA(at)aol.com> |
Chris,
Congratulations on getting your bird flying. I just read over your notes and would
like to share some thoughts. Forgive me in advance if I missed anything you
said, but here are some thoughts:
15.9" is not having the CG too far forward. I have plenty of time flying in that
range, and as Mike G pointed out, the plane has normal handling there. As the
plans note, the acceptable range is 15" to 20". If you are in this range and
the plane does not have normal behavior, it is likely something else.
If you have a good electronic scale W&B, it is a very easy matter to do an exact
calculation to know exactly where the CG will be with a 205 pound pilot. If
you have any trouble with this, send me the data privately, and I will do it
for you. The whole point to our previous work is so people can do a calculation,
and not guess nor estimate. I can not say for sure without numbers, but there
is a very good chance that a 15.9"/150lb pilot plane will still be in CG with
a 205 pound pilot.
If you load up the plane and move the CG back and it flies better at say 19.8",
this doesn't mean that the 'problem' has been corrected. It is possible in rigging
to have the illusion that the condition is 'fixed', when it has just been
masked. If the incidence is not correct, but this is less noticeable with the
CG aft, that doesn't constitute a solution, just a mask.
If your plane has a different airfoil, than the best advice is going to come from
a guy who not only has time with your airfoil, but also the standard one. You
need to contact PF Beck and Don Harper. Both their planes fly well, they have
motors in your weight category, PF would box as a welterweight, Don as a super
Welterweight. (147 and 154 lbs) PF's has the Std. airfoil, Don the Ribblett.
Get on the phone with them and ask about their CG, and also the rigging on
Don's plane, including the incidence and the position of the horizontal stab.
Get a smart level, and measure the stuff in degrees, and listen to the man flying
the combination, not the theory of what it should be.
A few guys mentioned 'twisted' stabilizers. Am I reading the correctly? or is the
comment really about the incidence of the stabilizer? Twist to me implies wash
in or wash out on a wing, I am not used to calling anything in the tail twisted.
I bring this up because other people may also not be getting the comment.
A little work on calculation and direct research with people flying the same airfoil
in a similar plane is a whole lot less work than following any suggestion
to move the wing some random amount. If, after investigation, it turns out that
the wing does need to be moved, I can also show you the exact calculation
to hit your new target CG right on. That is more complicated than a normal calculation,
but the CG articles we did, available from Doc Mosher, walk you through
it step by step.
My neighbors 200HP Glasair only did 160mph with full aft stick on its first flight;
3 people from the EAA chapter all claimed the CG was wrong. Actual issue?
LE of the stabilizer was off by 5/8". Corrected, the plane does 240 mph. 601XL
came to our hangar 2007, aircraft could not be effectively trimmed. Builder
was told it was a CG issue by several people. In reality, stabilizer was off by
1.5 or 2 degrees. Corrected the plane flew very well. I have a lot of stories
like this, do some research and your plane will get squared away shortly. Follow
someone's guess and go on a wild goose chase. Take your pick.
Hope to see many of you at Brodhead.
William Wynne
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425958#425958
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Chris Rusch stick-nose heavy conditioin |
| From: | "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com> |
Chris,
A couple of questions come to mind-
1. How did you weigh your aircraft? Was it actual aircraft scales? Using something
like 3 sets of bathroom scales can be extremely error-filed.
2. Did somebody else check your W&B computations? Not to say that you don't know
how to do a weight and balance sheet, but I would not feel bad if someone checked
my work if I was having W&B issues.
3. Have you read William Wynne's series of articles on Pietenpol weight and balance?
I think that they are well written and are backed up by some real numbers,
as opposed to guesswork.
4. Did you mention where your cabanes are set? Straight up? Aft? How far? Although
I am still building, it would seem to me that cabane height and angle of incidence
are not your issues.
If you need the W&B articles let me know.
--------
Semper Fi,
Terry Hand
Athens, GA
USMC, USMCR, ATP
BVD DVD PDQ BBQ
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425960#425960
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: ###4th FLIGHT### |
You ain't the only one, N92GB is nose heavy with me flying it.- I have-
had the shot bags by my butt on many occasions. It was set up for a 230 lbs
pilot, I am only 190.- Dad adds ballast in the nose compartment when he
flys.- I need to get fatter or move the wing forward, he has only flown a
bout 6 hrs in the last 2 years.=0A-=0AShad =0A=0A=0AOn Wednesday, July 2,
2014 3:27 PM, Chris Rusch wrote:=0A =0A=0A=0A-->
Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Chris Rusch"
=0A=0AThat's the part that is kinda baffling as the weight and balance is p
erfect......we are going to add weight to match a 200 lb guy in the back an
d see what happens. If then no improvement, its shorter cabanes and possibl
y shift the wing back forward.=0A=0A--------=0ANX321LR=0ANow test flying!!
=0AMitsubishi Powered=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp:
//forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425946#425946=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A
=================
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Continental primer connection |
| From: | "giacummo" <mario.giacummo(at)gmail.com> |
Hello,
I am connecting the cables, tubes, roads and everything to the engine, but I have
a doubt about the primer... where do I have to connect it?, to each cylinder
port or to the manifold above the carburator?.. In winter temperatures in the
morning are general above above 5 degrees Celsius (41 F) , and I don't plan
to fly with this temp.
I supouse is better in each cylinder, but simpler just in one place.
You who have this engine, what do you recomend to me?
By the way, two weeks ago I cover the second wing in a weekend, I cover it, pass
the iron, glue reinforces and inspection rings; a very profitable weekend. I
finish the covering step of the Piet, I have to sew the ribs and ready to paint.paint
it.
Regards
--------
Mario Giacummo
Photos here: http://goo.gl/wh7M4
Little Blog : http://vgmk1.blogspot.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425987#425987
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Continental primer connection |
| From: | "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com> |
Either way is fine. However, I've NEVER used my primer, just don't find a need
for it. Not sure I'd even put one in were I doing an initial build.
My Piet has it to each cylinder. Have had a couple lines break which is immediately
noticable in that the engine will backfire. Seems less lines, less breakage...
of course the whole engine is affected vs mine which only causes one cyl
to run lean.
So as usual, it seems it'll come down to what makes you feel comfortable. It's
a VERY reliable engine, either method of priming is well tested and has no obvious
problems I know about. I do believe going to each cylinder is considered
somewhat of a "upgrade" in some circles.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425991#425991
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: ###4th FLIGHT### |
| From: | "Chris Rusch" <rmdinfo(at)rmdbenders.com> |
Here are my w/b numbers using digital race car scales
--------
NX321LR
Now test flying!!
Mitsubishi Powered
Read this topic online here:
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________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: ###4th FLIGHT### |
| From: | "Chris Rusch" <rmdinfo(at)rmdbenders.com> |
I used 60.5" from the firewall to the bellybutton of the pilot for the arm location.
Subtract that from 173.25 an you get 112.75
All of the other distances were done using a plump bob with the plane perfectly
level. I marked all of the locations on the floor and used a tape measure to
document them.
--------
NX321LR
Now test flying!!
Mitsubishi Powered
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=426000#426000
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <jack(at)bedfordlandings.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Continental primer connection |
I have my primer going to the intake manifold. I use it any time the plane
has sat more than a few hours and the temperature is below 45 F (7 C). Just
makes starting easier.
To prevent having vibration casue cracking and leaking, put a loop in the
copper tubing between the last mounting point and the engine (you should do
the same for the oil pressure line). You can see both these lines in the
photo below:
Good Luck!
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of tools
Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2014 9:59 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Continental primer connection
Either way is fine. However, I've NEVER used my primer, just don't find a
need for it. Not sure I'd even put one in were I doing an initial build.
My Piet has it to each cylinder. Have had a couple lines break which is
immediately noticable in that the engine will backfire. Seems less lines,
less breakage... of course the whole engine is affected vs mine which only
causes one cyl to run lean.
So as usual, it seems it'll come down to what makes you feel comfortable.
It's a VERY reliable engine, either method of priming is well tested and has
no obvious problems I know about. I do believe going to each cylinder is
considered somewhat of a "upgrade" in some circles.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425991#425991
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Continental primer connection |
| From: | "giacummo" <mario.giacummo(at)gmail.com> |
I ask because I prefer install one cooper line than four, the one to four adapter,
etc (less job, just one point of failure, etc).
Thank you, I am going to install it in the manifold.
Regards.
--------
Mario Giacummo
Photos here: http://goo.gl/wh7M4
Little Blog : http://vgmk1.blogspot.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=426009#426009
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | CG, rigging, trim |
| From: | "William Wynne" <WilliamTCA(at)aol.com> |
Food for thought:
What is meant by nose heavy? That a plane with no in-flight adjustable elevator
trim requires aft stick in cruise flight? If this is the case, and the plane
is between 15-20", the correction is the angle of incidence on the stabilizer.
Because of the seating configuration of the Piet, where the PIC is much further
aft of the wing than common tandem seated planes like a J-3, a Piet will be much
more sensitive to variance in PIC weight. Even with a wing shifted back, a
Piet pilot's CG is more than 20" further aft than a J-3. If we are speaking of
a 675 lb empty weight Piet and a 775 EW cub, the difference is going to be even
more exaggerated because the PIC is a higher % of the gross.
Ask anyone with a J-3 if the plane will fly hands off with a 50 pound PIC weight
change without re trimming, and I am all piper pilots will say that it would
need a trim change. The same weight change in a Piet will have an even stronger
effect. It is not reasonable to expect a Piet to fly hands off with no trim
change with two PIC's with a 50 lb weight difference
Compare the trim system on a side by side classic (T-craft, 120, etc) to that of
a tandem piper. The SBS planes use a trim tab on the elevator, but the pipers
use a much more powerful system of altering the incidence of the stabilizer.
I am not suggesting that anyone redesign the Piet, I am just pointing out the
types of systems professional designers used in certain configurations, and the
relative power of altering the incidence of the stabilizer. The Piet is an
extreme example of tandem CG shift, and it is an easier path to a good flying
plane if the rigging is seen with than in mind.
I didn't see it mentioned, but speed is a factor on trimming planes and a guy who
like to cruise at 68mph will have a different story than one who flies at 82mph,
even in identical planes. Airfoils with strong pitching moments have strong
pitch changes with speed changes.
There are also other configuration considerations; a builder with 1929 gear going
from 60 to 75mph is going to have a different condition than a guy with 6x6's
doing the same speed change. There are other factors like the down thrust angle
on the mount etc that effect pitch changes with power. Many things to consider,
but one must start with the fundamentals of wing incidence, CG, and stabilizer
incidence. From there, gather first hand data from a plane with a very
similar configuration.
I understand that the paragraphs above constitutes "ruining a simple plane with
numbers talk" to some Piet fans. Last year a Brodhead a guy told me that I my
CG work had ruined a good thing, "A simple club of good old boys who liked flying
around low and slow and not thinking too much." I politely asked him if
he understood that his ideal condition fulfilled two and a half of three points
on the saying "Don't run out of altitude, airspeed and ideas all at the same
time." If anything I say is offensive, I am easily ignored and deleted. Just
pretend I don't exist. Reading a single word of my input is not a requirement
for building a Piet, I offer it for people who find it useful assistance in getting
the plane they personally want.
Perhaps the most productive thing to do is collect some examples. It would be quick work at Brodhead to measure wing and stabilizer incidence on a number of planes, put this in with CG information and some pilot notes on their experience trimming. With 2 or 3 people we could get this data from 10 planes in 2 hours. We could then stick the data here, or in the newsletter, or with Doc's CG notes, or on my Piet page: http://flycorvair.net/2013/11/28/corvair-pietenpol-reference-page/
If builders like the idea, good otherwise I am just as happy sitting around eating
brats and catching up with friends.
Thank you.
William Wynne
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=426018#426018
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: ###4th FLIGHT### |
| From: | "William Wynne" <WilliamTCA(at)aol.com> |
Chris,
That is very good data. You actually used the same model scales that we used for
the W&B data collection at Brodhead. For the data we have, we actually put several
sample body type pilots in the plane and weighed them to try to come up
with a PIC datum location that builders could use as a standard. What we settled
on is 10" ahead of the location of the top if the front face of the pilot's
seat back. This is accurate with 145-175 pound PIC, it errs on the side of caution
slightly as the PIC weight goes up and the pilot's body type is more burley.
I looked at your You tube video carefully. Good looking bird. I watched the elevator
position in flight and it is up all the time. What was the level flight
speed? If the plane needs up elevator in flight, and it is in CG, you can always
lower the whole leading edge of the stabilizer until the elevator lies in trail
in level cruise flight.
I will get out a calculator after dinner tonight and look at your CG data. I think
it might be slightly further forward than you are thinking. I can also give
you the change with 50 more pounds of PIC.
The plane is a neat innovation, I am sure you are just a few steps away from having
it rigged to your liking. -ww
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=426020#426020
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Boatright, Jeffrey" <jeffboatright(at)emory.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Continental primer connection |
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________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Happy 4th everyone |
| From: | "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org> |
Here's a challenge to all. Lets see how many of us with flying Piets can commit
aviation on the 4th. Even if it is only to go around the pattern once. Then
we'll report back here so we can get a head count. Could be fun.
Have fun,
--------
Scott Liefeld
Flying N11MS since March 1972
Steel Tube
C-85-12
Wire Wheels
Brodhead in 1996
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=426027#426027
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Cardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: ###4th FLIGHT### |
Chris,
Where is the fuel tank located?
Greg Cardinal
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Rusch" <rmdinfo(at)rmdbenders.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2014 9:36 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: ###4th FLIGHT###
>
>
> I used 60.5" from the firewall to the bellybutton of the pilot for the arm
> location. Subtract that from 173.25 an you get 112.75
>
> All of the other distances were done using a plump bob with the plane
> perfectly level. I marked all of the locations on the floor and used a
> tape measure to document them.
>
> --------
> NX321LR
> Now test flying!!
> Mitsubishi Powered
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=426000#426000
>
>
>
---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection
is active.
http://www.avast.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Happy 4th everyone |
| From: | "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com> |
Scott,
I will be committing aviation on July 4th in a Boeing 767 (work). I would much
rather be doing it in a Pietenpol.
A Happy 4th to all.
--------
Semper Fi,
Terry Hand
Athens, GA
USMC, USMCR, ATP
BVD DVD PDQ BBQ
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=426034#426034
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Happy 4th everyone |
I'm in!
Gary Boothe
NX308MB
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
AircamperN11MS
Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2014 12:05 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Happy 4th everyone
-->
Here's a challenge to all. Lets see how many of us with flying Piets can
commit aviation on the 4th. Even if it is only to go around the pattern
once. Then we'll report back here so we can get a head count. Could be
fun.
Have fun,
--------
Scott Liefeld
Flying N11MS since March 1972
Steel Tube
C-85-12
Wire Wheels
Brodhead in 1996
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=426027#426027
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <jack(at)bedfordlandings.com> |
| Subject: | Happy 4th everyone |
I should be able to to do that. Forecast here is good for tomorrow (sucks
right now, though).
I was able to get in a flight in the Pietenpol this morning, carrying one of
our B&B guests. Squeezed it in under a 1500' broken ceiling with a
scattered layer at 700'. The pretty young lady was thrilled. Her boyfriend
was too heavy for the Piet so I took him in the RV-4.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Boothe
Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2014 5:19 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Happy 4th everyone
I'm in!
Gary Boothe
NX308MB
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
AircamperN11MS
Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2014 12:05 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Happy 4th everyone
-->
Here's a challenge to all. Lets see how many of us with flying Piets can
commit aviation on the 4th. Even if it is only to go around the pattern
once. Then we'll report back here so we can get a head count. Could be
fun.
Have fun,
--------
Scott Liefeld
Flying N11MS since March 1972
Steel Tube
C-85-12
Wire Wheels
Brodhead in 1996
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=426027#426027
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: ###4th FLIGHT### |
| From: | "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
(like the little school kid in the back of the room, with his hand up): "I know!
I know! Chris's fuel tank is in the wing centersection and it's a 14 gallon
one"
I know this because I'm just wrapping up the article on the MitsuPietshi that will
appear in the all-Piet issue of Contact! Magazine, just in time for the 85th
anniversary of the Air Camper.
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=426042#426042
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | markmckellar(at)reagan.com |
=0AUnsubscribe
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: tenpol-List: |
| From: | Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com> |
The Unsubscribed"
The cold fog thickened noticeably as the newcomer hurried towards his
destination. He pulled his heavy overcoat around his neck a little more
tightly. This part of the city was not a place to tarry. Thieves and
whores were the only permanent residents here. Even the cops rolled
through
these streets with a nervousness and an edge to heir normal macho
banter.
Trouble and misery closed around everyone who ventured into this
pustule of
urban blight like a leech on a warm vein.
"Damn!", he hissed under his breath as he stepped on something soft that
squealed and skittered off into the darkness and dankness of the mist.
It
can't be much farther he thought. It mustn't be much farther. The
sickly
yellow flicker of light from a street lamp shone dimly through the fog
as he
quickened his pace.
There it was. The doorway seemed to be just blackness without
definition.
As he got closer, two winos eyed him suspiciously through bloodshot and
yellowed eyes. He hustled past them, their breath leaving a rank scent
that
lingered on his clothes. The door pushed inward and the newcomer was
inside.
The room was smoky and dim. The bar stank of liquor and broken dreams.
Several tables decorated the periphery. The man he had come to see was
sitting at one of those tables and beckoned him over to sit. The man
was
darkly clothed and utterly shapeless. He might have weighed three
hundred
pounds... or he may have been only bone. His shape was indecipherable.
The
dark mans eyes were gazing down at the dirty glass in his hand, half
filled
with cheap whiskey. He had been reading a glossy magazine filled with
lurid
and obscene images. He folded it tenderly and stuffed it quickly into
his
coat pocket like a vulture gobbling a rotten piece of flesh.
"What is it you want of me?", the dark man asked, not lifting his eyes
from
the glass. His voice rumbled deep in his belly like a toad.
"I need you to tell me how to unsubscribe", said the newcomer in as
even a
tone as he could muster.
The dark man looked up from his glass slowly to gaze at the newcomer.
His
eyes were a pale watery blue. And his gaze lingered on the newcomer.
"You wish to unsubscribe?", he said, with a hint of amusement in his
voice
but no trace of a smile on his thick pasty lips. "You come to me with a
need to unsubscribe?", he said, his voice getting louder now and any
hint of
amusement gone. He sucked in his breath and hissed through his teeth
spraying the newcomer with a repulsive mist of spittle, "Why? Tell me
why
it is that you wish to unsubscribe."
The newcomer felt fear now creeping up his spine. "I don't have the
time to
sort through all the posts", he mumbled.
The dark man sat unmoved, his eyes stared at the newcomer without
emotion.
His eyes were cold and amphibian.
"And I sold the Pietenpol and bought a Husky", added the newcomer.
He realized in a heart beat that he should not have said that. The
dark man
had him by the throat with a quickness that seemed otherworldly. And
the
dark man squeezed that throat as the newcomer wriggled and squirmed in a
voiceless scream. The dark man pulled the newcomers face to his own
until
they nearly touched noses. He breathed his fetid breath on the
newcomer and
a trickle of drool escaped his mouth to plop loudly on the table between
them.
"Go!", he rumbled. "Go now you fool!", he bellowed. "Run if you can.
It
shall do you no good! Once you have subscribed, all hope of ever
unsubscribing is gone! We will find you. Your email is now ours to
control. Your email box will fill to bursting with our messages. And
there
is no hope for you. There is no good deed you can do to change what you
have done. The List will not be denied!"
And with that he released the newcomer who reeled and staggered towards
the
door, gagging and stumbling. The dark man began to laugh, a low
rumbling
laugh that grew louder. The newcomer fled up the streets as he had come
with the croaking bellowing laughter chasing him. He was doomed... and
he
knew it.
The dark man sat back at the table in the dimly lit bar and sipped at
his
drink.
"I guess I could have just told him to go to
http://www.matronics.com/subscribe/
and follow the directions to unsubscribe", he muttered under his breath.
No, he smiled to himself. That would have been all too easy. Still
chuckling to himself, he reached into his pocket and pulled out the
magazine
he had been reading before the newcomer interrupted him. He quickly
thumbed
through the slick and edge worn pages until he found his place. He never
missed a single word of each and every issue of Martha Stewart Living...
Anonymous
On Thu, Jul 3, 2014 at 6:49 PM, wrote:
> Unsubscribe
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
--
Blue Skies,
Steve D
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: tenpol-List: |
| From: | "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
If I didn't know better, I would say that you've been listening to too many episodes
of "Guy Noir" on the Prairie Home Companion.
"A dark night in a city that knows how to keep its secrets. Brodhead, Wisconsin".
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=426051#426051
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: tenpol-List: |
| From: | Kip Gardner <kipgohio1957(at)gmail.com> |
Good one, Oscar.
Happy Independence Day everyone!
On Jul 4, 2014, at 12:28 AM, taildrags wrote:
>
> If I didn't know better, I would say that you've been listening to too many episodes
of "Guy Noir" on the Prairie Home Companion.
>
> "A dark night in a city that knows how to keep its secrets. Brodhead, Wisconsin".
>
> --------
> Oscar Zuniga
> Medford, OR
> Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
> A75 power
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=426051#426051
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: tenpol-List: |
| From: | "William Wynne" <WilliamTCA(at)aol.com> |
Steve,
That is a classic, worthy of Raymond Chandler. I would like to know who wrote it,
it made me smile.
In defense of Mark McKellar: He may not know how to unsubscribe, but he was a pretty
good student of engine building. He came to Corvair College #2 held at our
old hangar at Spruce Creek FL. He built up a long block under our supervision,
intended for a Piet. Years later, after a life issue, he sold it to Robert
and Barbara Caldwell for their bird. They bolted on some updated parts but didn't
touch the basic engine Mark assembled. At Corvair College #21 at PF Beck's
the engine fired right up after 3 seconds of cranking and ran smoothly. Elapsed
time, almost 11 years.
There are pictures at this link: http://www.flycorvair.com/cc21.html It also contains first runs on a number of Corvairs bound for Piets, like "Early Builder's" and Don Harper's. We are holding Corvair College #31 at PF Beck's in Barnwell again this November.-ww.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=426053#426053
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: ###4th FLIGHT### |
| From: | "William Wynne" <WilliamTCA(at)aol.com> |
Chris,
I took out a pencil and calculator and went to work on your data. I came out with
the following:
EWCG: 8.66"
w/150 lb PIC 15.26"
w/ 205 lb PIC 17.1"
w/ 290 lb PIC 19.8"
Thoughts: The suggestion by two people that you have to move the wing is lacking
data and merit. If you look at our CG articles, check out the Corvair installment.
The plane identified as "Aircraft #3" was Kevin Purtee and Shelley's 'fat
bottomed girl'. It is a very close approximation of your plane in EW, CG, Landing
gear, etc. Kevin's plane actually had it's EWCG at 8.2", slightly further
forward than yours. His plane flew 345 hours and many long flights like this.
Kevin is about 5'11" and 175 pounds dressed. Yet his plane didn't have 'terrible
stick pressure', and I suspect that the prime difference in the two planes
will be the angle of the stabilizer.
As further evidence, I have done a W&B on "the Last Original". It is hand prop
and lighter, but the CG with a 210 lb PIC is 17.0". BHP's plane in the hangar
at Pioneer airport is the same way. In 2006 my wife flew the last original and
said it was totally normal. Bill Knight reworked the plane a few years ago and
would have changed the wing position if it needed it. Bill is a 215 pound guy,
but 1,500 hr Piet guy Tom Brown has flown it a lot also, and he is a 165 lb
guy, and he has never said anything but positive things about the plane. Again,
I suspect that you have a stabilizer issue, not a CG one. Yes, you can crank
the wing forward and mask this, but you would be moving away from how BHP set
his planes up, not closer.
One possible point: I saw your number of 60.5" for the PIC-CG. If you look at the
notation that Ryan and I used, PSL is explained in the series as the pilots
seat back length, from there our PIC-CG for calculations was 10" ahead of this.
Your number looks like you estimated your PIC to be further forward than this,
maybe 15" ahead of the PSL in your plane. If we recalculate your CG w/150
lb PIC by my method, the CG is 16.04" about 3/4" further back. Likewise the CG
w/205 lb PIC becomes 18.2", over an inch further back. I suspect that my estimate
that the pilot CG from the LE of your plane is close to 55.875" maybe closer
than your estimate of 50.875. For accurate W&B nothing beats the pilot sitting
in the plane dressed while it is still on the scales. The 'belly button rule"
isn't accurate enough. Note if my number is right, and someone had talked
you into moving the wing 2.5" forward, you would have ended up aft of the CG
limit. At the risk of confirming suspicions that I am a tactless jackass, I want
to say that we did the W&B work to discourage people from offering advice without
calculation.
If you are heading to Brodhead, I will gladly go over this in person with you and
we can go get a look at the last original and carefully measure the incidence
on the wing and the stabilizer and compare it to your bird.
Thank you.
William Wynne
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=426056#426056
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: ###4th FLIGHT### |
| From: | "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com> |
William,
OK, I will be the jarhead that asks the simple question that probably has a simple
answer.
What should the angle of the horizontal stabilizer be? Zero, in relation to the
top longeron? Or is the answer, "it depends."? Start at zero and adjust during
flight testing? I don't see it shown on the plans, or am I missing something?
There have been previous discussions on the forum about elevator position in flight.
The elevator should be in a neutral position for cruise flight, is that
what you are saying? I understand that elevator position out of neutral will create
more drag, but I thought there was some discussion of it being " normal".
In the Marine Corps we used to say that there is no such thing as a stupid question,
although there are many that come extremely close. Maybe mine is one of
the close ones.[/b]
--------
Semper Fi,
Terry Hand
Athens, GA
USMC, USMCR, ATP
BVD DVD PDQ BBQ
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=426060#426060
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Happy 4th everyone |
| From: | "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org> |
Good morning Pieters,
I flew for 30 minutes this morning before it gets hot. Lifted off at 5:45. Great
smooth ride.
Happy Landings,
--------
Scott Liefeld
Flying N11MS since March 1972
Steel Tube
C-85-12
Wire Wheels
Brodhead in 1996
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=426073#426073
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: ###4th FLIGHT### |
| From: | "William Wynne" <WilliamTCA(at)aol.com> |
Terry,
I went back last night after doing Chris's W&B calculation and read most of what
I could find on it to get a bigger picture. "Depends" is a very good answer.
Chris, I would strongly consider getting in touch with Don Harper at Barnwell and
looking at which wing incidence he used on his plane with the same airfoil
you have. Even 1 degree difference is a lot on a plane, and if we know what works
for him, and if it is different from what you have, it is starting off a lot
better armed in the info department.
The plans show 2 degrees, but this is really applicable to only one set of parameters,
a weight and a cruise speed and the original airfoil. 2 degrees may be
right on the button for a 1100 pound A powered plane at 68 mph with the BHP airfoil.
A 1200 pound plane at 78mph with a ribblett may not only need a different
incidence to be idealized, but it will likely also require a different stabilizer
setting. If the BHP and Ribblet airfoils had tables like the naca airfoils
do in theory of wing sections, anyone could do an accurate calculation in
a few minutes. Without this, working from carefully validated previous flying
planes takes longer, but can produce a fine tunes plane just the same. -ww.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=426074#426074
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: ###4th FLIGHT### |
| From: | "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca> |
There was a discussion about wing incidence about three years ago, and at that
time I created a couple of drawings to illustrate the relationship between the
cabane strut lengths, and also between the chord line vs the bottom of the spars.
They are attached again to this posting.
For the "to the plans" Pietenpol, the 1" difference in cabane struts creates a
2 degree angle. Added to this is a 1 1/2 degree angle formed between the chord
line and the bottoms of the spars (since that's where the cabanes attach).
So the effective angle of incidence between the airfoil chord and the top longeron
is 3.5 degrees.
For the Riblett 612 airfoil, there is a 2.1 degree angle between the chord line
and the bottoms of the spars. So, if a Riblett 612 airfoil is mounted on "stock"
cabanes (front 1" longer than rear), the effective AofI would be 4.1 degrees.
If the front and rear cabanes are made equal lengths, with the Riblett, the effective
angle would be reduced to only 2.1 degrees - almost 1 1/2 degrees less
than the "to the plans" Piet.
In order to produce the same 3.5 degree angle, but using the Riblett 612, there
should be a difference of approximately 11/16" difference in cabane lengths (front
vs back).
Food for thought.
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=426085#426085
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/piet_incidence_145.pdf
http://forums.matronics.com//files/riblett_incidence_159.pdf
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <jack(at)bedfordlandings.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Happy 4th everyone |
I'm waiting till this evening. Right now we have winds at 15 knots with
gusts to 25, directly across the runway. Too much work flying in such
winds!
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
AircamperN11MS
Sent: Friday, July 04, 2014 10:20 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Happy 4th everyone
Good morning Pieters,
I flew for 30 minutes this morning before it gets hot. Lifted off at 5:45.
Great smooth ride.
Happy Landings,
--------
Scott Liefeld
Flying N11MS since March 1972
Steel Tube
C-85-12
Wire Wheels
Brodhead in 1996
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=426073#426073
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Happy 4th everyone |
| From: | Gary Boothe <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
Know what you mean Jack...gusts to 3 here!
Sent from my iPhone
> On Jul 4, 2014, at 10:08 AM, "Jack Phillips" wrote:
>
>
> I'm waiting till this evening. Right now we have winds at 15 knots with
> gusts to 25, directly across the runway. Too much work flying in such
> winds!
>
> Jack Phillips
> NX899JP
> Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> AircamperN11MS
> Sent: Friday, July 04, 2014 10:20 AM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Happy 4th everyone
>
>
>
> Good morning Pieters,
> I flew for 30 minutes this morning before it gets hot. Lifted off at 5:45.
> Great smooth ride.
> Happy Landings,
>
> --------
> Scott Liefeld
> Flying N11MS since March 1972
> Steel Tube
> C-85-12
> Wire Wheels
> Brodhead in 1996
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=426073#426073
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: ###4th FLIGHT### |
| From: | "William Wynne" <WilliamTCA(at)aol.com> |
nBill,
Those are some very clear and useful drawings, a good reference point, and I would
be very interested to read about what the incidence of any flying Ribblett
airfoiled plane is.
4.1 degrees on that airfoil is a lot. People miss how many kits use Ribblett airfoils,
even things like Zenith 601XLs. I am pretty sure the same airfoil used
on the Piet is also on modern Kitfoxes, and they don't have anywhere near that
kind of incidence, even when you factor in the speed and wing loading difference.
With 6% camber, this airfoil will still produce lift even if the incidence is lowered
to 0 degrees. If the plane is trying to fly with the fuselage angled down
3 or 4 degrees in flight, the often forgotten part on trimming is that it is
also adding this to the down thrust of the engine and subtracting it from the
incidence of the stabilizer.
Was anyone else at Brodhead about 10 years ago when a plane flew in that had the
cabanes reversed? I recall a plane flying around the pattern with the nose about
4 degrees up. I have seen some rigging errors before, but that one stands
out in my memory, and I have no explanation why the builder might have thought
it was OK. -ww.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=426089#426089
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert Bush <rbush96589(at)aol.com> |
Happy 4th of July! My wife and I enjoyed a beautiful sunset flight, 75 degre
es, clear skies. No humidity it was absolutely perfect.
By the way, for all of you that congratulated me on the article in Experimen
ter magazine, thank-you. I'm not sure if my previous thank you went thru or n
ot.
Randy bush
NX294RB
Sent from my iPhone