Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-nq
July 26, 2014 - August 03, 2014
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Michael Cuy's Weight & Balance---please see attachment |
Adding to the discussion (see attached):
Today I moved out my Piet so John Howard could do W&B on his new Zenith 750.
We had Pelouze scales supplied by our EAA Chapter.as opposed to when I did
my own W&B with a digital bathroom scale. Since all was there and ready to
go, with help, I re-weighed my Piet.
I was approximately 50 lbs off on the gross weight, but the numbers still
fell within the envelope [sigh of relief]. As a quick review:
Long fuselage
Corvair
Cabanes tilted 4"
Gary Boothe
NX308MB
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cuy, Michael
D. (GRC-LME0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]
Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2014 10:11 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Michael Cuy's Weight & Balance---please see
attachment
William Wynne writes:
"the reason why I am giving Mike C a hard time on W&B is actually on your
behalf: I strongly suspect that Mike is not sharing his W&B because he is at
times flying behind the aft limit. That is his choice, but when he then
tells new guys like you to build your plane just like his, I think he is
doing a disservice. If this is true, your loyalty is to the wrong guy. Mike,
when you share the numbers, be aware that I am good enough to know if you
are fudging it.
Dear William-you have such grand visions of paranoia about why I have not
shared my weight and balance. My world is not small enough to worry
about what you think of me sharing or not sharing my weight and balance
with the list because the guy I am trying to help (as he stated just
yesterday on the Pietenpol list) does in fact have paper copies of my
original W&B paperwork in-hand, Mike Perez. I also copied the great
notes for Mike Perez
that I had on hand for Mike Perez that Bill Rewey authored on how to do a
good W&B on our little Pietnepol airplanes so Mike could have several
different ways of doing his own calculations and choose the one that fit his
mathematic style and likes best.
And thankfully, with the outstanding W&B teachings and guidelines that my
Uncle Tony Bingelis authored for us in this wonderful book series on
homebuilt aircraft, I was able to conduct an accurate and complete W&B on
my airplane and compare that with the dozens of Pietenpol builders whom I
had met at Brodhead after measuring their wing set-back, knowing their
personal body weights, and talking with them about how their plane flies
full fuel, low fuel, long fuselage, short fuselage,
extended motor mount, as-plans motor mount and soforth and examining their
W&B paperwork to guide me as I built my Pietenpol and made my own decisions.
Go ahead and double check my original pencil-drawn and .pdf scanned
paperwork from 16 years ago that I prepared for myself, for the FAA MIDO
Inspector, and for future owner/operators of my aircraft for when I am long
gone but certainly not for you and your little paranoia's about why I
haven't posted my numbers to the list. I have better things to do with
my life than to fudge my data to see if you can catch any errors and I'm a
bit stupid at times but I'm never stupid enough to build and fly my own
airplane in an aft-CG condition. You're wasting your time worrying about
what you "suspect" others are doing or not doing and what might motivate
them and you are distracting from the good nature of this list with
negativity and your critical nature that just divides.
And William, besides making sure my plane was built to have a very safe and
good operating CG range, I took great pains to ensure that my plane was
built to the best of my ability, using all the educational reading materials
at my disposal, and with the best aircraft-grade materials and aircraft
engine overhaul practices of the day so that I could have confidence in
flying safely for years to come and so that I would have confidence in
giving rides to precious Mom's, Dad's, Grandparents, sons, daughters,
school kids, Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts, Aunts, Uncles, little kids, big
kids, old guys, young guys, young gals, old gals, Aunts, nieces, nephews,
neighbor kids, 4-H kids, Young Eagle kids, my own brother, dearest
friend Bill, the EAA photographers in the trenches at New Holstein, an
F-18 West Coast Demonstration Team pilot who was building his own RV-6
(named James Shoenberger in case you "suspect that Mike Cuy isn't telling
the truth.again.." ) , A Pearl Harbor survivor, an airport bum, people at
the Brodhead fly-in and many other fly-in's around Ohio, Indiana,
Pennsylvania, a high school friend and his children, his wife, his best
friend.. and yes, even Michael Perez, his lovely wife Susan , and his two
boys.
Even last night I gave a ride to a precious High School senior from the area
who means the world to me and her Mom, a Kindergarten school mate of mine
from 50 years ago (that would be 1964) (we were 5 when me met) allowed
her daughter to take flight with me and I had no reservations about giving
her that ride and sharing this wonderful gift of flight that we ultimately
build a 2-seat, open cockpit airplane for.
Mike C.
Ohio
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: take a 36 second Pietenpol ride with Rachel and I |
| From: | "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
That's what I'm talkin' about! What fun.
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=427384#427384
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ray Krause <raykrause(at)frontiernet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: take a 36 second Pietenpol ride with Rachel and I |
Mike,
The smile tells it all!
Thanks! Keep flying, giving rides and helping those who are still building!
We sill get there.
Ray Krause
SkyScout coming along....slowly.
Sent from my iPad
> On Jul 26, 2014, at 10:15 AM, "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-LME0)[Vantage Partners
, LLC]" wrote:
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BdtgC10zNuA&feature=em-upload_owner
>
>
> What a gorgeously smooth night it was last night in the Cleveland area.
For all of you out there building or just starting to build or even just dre
aming about
> building a Pietnepol, here=99s a little slice of Pietenpol heaven f
or you all that I have been so BLESSED to be able to share with so many over
the years.
>
> Keep building, keep working in your shops little by little and don=99
t give up the dream of completing your VERY OWN Pietenpol Air Camper. Eve
n 16 years
> after first flying my Pietenpol the joy and fulfillment of taking someone f
or their first Pietenpol ride hasn=99t diminished or dimmed ONE bit!
>
> I hope you all enjoy the flight!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> Mike C.
> Ohio
>
>
>
>
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "dgaldrich" <dgaldrich(at)embarqmail.com> |
It's Saturday evening and NOBODY has posted anything yet on Brodhead 2014. Let
me start.
First, the weather so far has been pretty darn decent considering what's happened
in the past. No typhoons, ice storms or whatever...yet.
The turnout has been better than some expected. Skip Gadd has the official account
but it's somewhere around 14 Piets. Now if the guys in the hangars would
trot them out, we could probably have a squadron.
Bratfest IV was well attended and the brats were up to their usual high standard,
as was the hospitality.
The only thing I can critique is the lack of a Saturday speakers program. Instead,
Chapter 431 put on a very nice presentation on the Bleriot, to include short
talks by several people who have flown them. One was by a gentleman from
Luxembourg who flew the channel in a replica 100 years after the second crossing.
That's all for now.
Dave
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=427391#427391
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: take a 36 second Pietenpol ride with Rachel and I |
| From: | "aerocarjake" <flight.jake(at)gmail.com> |
THANK YOU Mike..... I worked in the shop for several hours today - that much closer
to being able to take people - I know not who - on a flight such as you show.
There have been some struggles lately so thanks for the encouragement - it
is truly appreciated.......
--------
Jake Schultz - curator,
Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=427394#427394
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Boatright, Jeffrey" <jeffboatright(at)emory.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Brodhead Report |
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JammerRv8(at)aol.com |
Hi
I'm looking for Tim Willis of Texas (Georgetown or Austin )I've had his
email address for a while but it wont deliver ,any help would be
appreciated.
Jeff Martin
new builder
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | larharris2 Harris <larharris2(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Michael Cuy's Weight & Balance---please see attachment |
Gary=2C I appreciate very much this discussion on W&B. I asked some questi
ons here a few months ago about CG location in order to make an educated de
cision about my axle location. Many thanks to those who responded. I got Do
c's package of articles which proved very helpful.
The Excel spreadsheet you attached brings to mind another question I have:
What do others use as a MAX Gross Weight number. Your spreadsheet shows on
e example with a 1340.2 lb gross weight! That would be a very handy number
=2C if it is practical.
>From my basic set of plans=2C I have had the number of 1080 lb in my mind.
If I can finish my build at a 650-680 lb empty weight (I'm going with a lon
g fuse.=2C and an O-200=2C Oratex fabric)=2C I would have about 400 lb for
me=2C fuel=2C and an attractive (but lightweight) young woman.
What number do others use as a MAX gross weight number? And how do you just
ify it=2C allowing margins for rough air=2C etc?
Thanks for the replies. Incoming . . .
Lorenzo=2C Tellico Plains=2C TN
(about 50% done=2C 90% to go)
From: gboothe5(at)comcast.net
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Michael Cuy's Weight & Balance---please see at
tachment
Date: Sat=2C 26 Jul 2014 15:55:09 -0700
Adding to the discussion (see attached): Today I moved out my Piet so John
Howard could do W&B on his new Zenith 750. We had Pelouze scales supplied b
y our EAA Chapter=85as opposed to when I did my own W&B with a digital bath
room scale. Since all was there and ready to go=2C with help=2C I re-weighe
d my Piet=85 I was approximately 50 lbs off on the gross weight=2C but the
numbers still fell within the envelope [sigh of relief]. As a quick review
: Long fuselageCorvairCabanes tilted 4=94 Gary BootheNX308MB From: owner-pi
etenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matro
nics.com] On Behalf Of Cuy=2C Michael D. (GRC-LME0)[Vantage Partners=2C LLC
]
Sent: Saturday=2C July 26=2C 2014 10:11 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Michael Cuy's Weight & Balance---please see attach
ment William Wynne writes: =93the reason why I am giving Mike C a hard ti
me on W&B is actually on your behalf: I strongly suspect that Mike is not s
haring his W&B because he is at times flying behind the aft limit. That is
his choice=2C but when he then tells new guys like you to build your plane
just like his=2C I think he is doing a disservice. If this is true=2C your
loyalty is to the wrong guy. Mike=2C when you share the numbers=2C be awar
e that I am good enough to know if you are fudging it. Dear William=97you
have such grand visions of paranoia about why I have not shared my weight
and balance. My world is not small enough to worry about what you think
of me sharing or not sharing my weight and balancewith the list because th
e guy I am trying to help (as he stated just yesterday on the Pietenpol lis
t) does in fact have paper copies of my original W&B paperwork in-hand=2C
Mike Perez. I also copied the great notes for Mike Perezthat I had on h
and for Mike Perez that Bill Rewey authored on how to do a good W&B on our
little Pietnepol airplanes so Mike could have several different ways of doi
ng his own calculations and choose the one that fit his mathematic style an
d likes best. And thankfully=2C with the outstanding W&B teachings and gui
delines that my Uncle Tony Bingelis authored for us in this wonderful boo
k series on homebuilt aircraft=2C I was able to conduct an accurate and co
mplete W&B on my airplane and compare that with the dozens of Pietenpol bui
lders whom I had met at Brodhead after measuring their wing set-back=2C kn
owing their personal body weights=2C and talking with them about how their
plane flies full fuel=2C low fuel=2C long fuselage=2C short fuselage=2C ex
tended motor mount=2C as-plans motor mount and soforth and examining their
W&B paperwork to guide me as I built my Pietenpol and made my own decisions
. Go ahead and double check my original pencil-drawn and .pdf scanned pap
erwork from 16 years ago that I prepared for myself=2C for the FAA MIDO In
spector=2C and for future owner/operators of my aircraft for when I am lon
g gone but certainly not for you and your little paranoia=92s about why I
haven=92t posted my numbers to the list. I have better things to do wi
th my life than to fudge my data to see if you can catch any errors and I
=92m a bit stupid at times but I=92m never stupid enough to build and fly m
y own airplane in an aft-CG condition. You=92re wasting your time worryi
ng about what you =93suspect=94 others are doing or not doing and what migh
t motivate them and you are distracting from the good nature of this list w
ith negativity and your critical nature that just divides. And William
=2C besides making sure my plane was built to have a very safe and good op
erating CG range=2C I took great pains to ensure that my plane was built t
o the best of my ability=2C using all the educational reading materials at
my disposal=2C and with the best aircraft-grade materials and aircraft eng
ine overhaul practices of the day so that I could have confidence in flying
safely for years to come and so that I would have confidence in giving rid
es to precious Mom=92s=2C Dad=92s=2C Grandparents=2C sons=2C daughters
=2C school kids=2C Boy Scouts=2C Girl Scouts=2C Aunts=2C Uncles=2C littl
e kids=2C big kids=2C old guys=2C young guys=2C young gals=2C old gals=2C
Aunts=2C nieces=2C nephews=2C neighbor kids=2C 4-H kids=2C Young Eagl
e kids=2C my own brother=2C dearest friend Bill=2C the EAA photographers
in the trenches at New Holstein=2C an F-18 West Coast Demonstration Team
pilot who was building his own RV-6 (named James Shoenberger in case you
=93suspect that Mike Cuy isn=92t telling the truth=85again..=94 ) =2C A Pea
rl Harbor survivor=2C an airport bum=2C people at the Brodhead fly-in and
many other fly-in=92s around Ohio=2C Indiana=2C Pennsylvania=2C a high sch
ool friend and his children=2C his wife=2C his best friend=85=85 and yes=2C
even Michael Perez=2C his lovely wife Susan =2C and his two boys. E
ven last night I gave a ride to a precious High School senior from the area
who means the world to me and her Mom=2C a Kindergarten school mate of mi
ne from 50 years ago (that would be 1964) (we were 5 when me met) allowe
d her daughter to take flight with me and I had no reservations about givin
g her that ride and sharing this wonderful gift of flight that we ultimatel
y build a 2-seat=2C open cockpit airplane for. Mike C.Ohio
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Michael Cuy's Weight & Balance---please see attachment |
Lorenzo,
That was a mistake. The max gross weight of my Piet is 1289 lbs. I was
messing around with pilot and passenger weights to see how CG changed.and
forgot to change it back.
Gary Boothe
NX308MB
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of larharris2
Harris
Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2014 10:02 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Michael Cuy's Weight & Balance---please see
attachment
Gary, I appreciate very much this discussion on W&B. I asked some questions
here a few months ago about CG location in order to make an educated
decision about my axle location. Many thanks to those who responded. I got
Doc's package of articles which proved very helpful.
The Excel spreadsheet you attached brings to mind another question I have:
What do others use as a MAX Gross Weight number. Your spreadsheet shows one
example with a 1340.2 lb gross weight! That would be a very handy number, if
it is practical.
>From my basic set of plans, I have had the number of 1080 lb in my mind. If
I can finish my build at a 650-680 lb empty weight (I'm going with a long
fuse., and an O-200, Oratex fabric), I would have about 400 lb for me, fuel,
and an attractive (but lightweight) young woman.
What number do others use as a MAX gross weight number? And how do you
justify it, allowing margins for rough air, etc?
Thanks for the replies. Incoming . . .
Lorenzo, Tellico Plains, TN
(about 50% done, 90% to go)
_____
From: gboothe5(at)comcast.net
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Michael Cuy's Weight & Balance---please see
attachment
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2014 15:55:09 -0700
Adding to the discussion (see attached):
Today I moved out my Piet so John Howard could do W&B on his new Zenith 750.
We had Pelouze scales supplied by our EAA Chapter.as opposed to when I did
my own W&B with a digital bathroom scale. Since all was there and ready to
go, with help, I re-weighed my Piet.
I was approximately 50 lbs off on the gross weight, but the numbers still
fell within the envelope [sigh of relief]. As a quick review:
Long fuselage
Corvair
Cabanes tilted 4"
Gary Boothe
NX308MB
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cuy, Michael
D. (GRC-LME0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]
Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2014 10:11 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Michael Cuy's Weight & Balance---please see
attachment
William Wynne writes:
"the reason why I am giving Mike C a hard time on W&B is actually on your
behalf: I strongly suspect that Mike is not sharing his W&B because he is at
times flying behind the aft limit. That is his choice, but when he then
tells new guys like you to build your plane just like his, I think he is
doing a disservice. If this is true, your loyalty is to the wrong guy. Mike,
when you share the numbers, be aware that I am good enough to know if you
are fudging it.
Dear William-you have such grand visions of paranoia about why I have not
shared my weight and balance. My world is not small enough to worry
about what you think of me sharing or not sharing my weight and balance
with the list because the guy I am trying to help (as he stated just
yesterday on the Pietenpol list) does in fact have paper copies of my
original W&B paperwork in-hand, Mike Perez. I also copied the great
notes for Mike Perez
that I had on hand for Mike Perez that Bill Rewey authored on how to do a
good W&B on our little Pietnepol airplanes so Mike could have several
different ways of doing his own calculations and choose the one that fit his
mathematic style and likes best.
And thankfully, with the outstanding W&B teachings and guidelines that my
Uncle Tony Bingelis authored for us in this wonderful book series on
homebuilt aircraft, I was able to conduct an accurate and complete W&B on
my airplane and compare that with the dozens of Pietenpol builders whom I
had met at Brodhead after measuring their wing set-back, knowing their
personal body weights, and talking with them about how their plane flies
full fuel, low fuel, long fuselage, short fuselage,
extended motor mount, as-plans motor mount and soforth and examining their
W&B paperwork to guide me as I built my Pietenpol and made my own decisions.
Go ahead and double check my original pencil-drawn and .pdf scanned
paperwork from 16 years ago that I prepared for myself, for the FAA MIDO
Inspector, and for future owner/operators of my aircraft for when I am long
gone but certainly not for you and your little paranoia's about why I
haven't posted my numbers to the list. I have better things to do with
my life than to fudge my data to see if you can catch any errors and I'm a
bit stupid at times but I'm never stupid enough to build and fly my own
airplane in an aft-CG condition. You're wasting your time worrying about
what you "suspect" others are doing or not doing and what might motivate
them and you are distracting from the good nature of this list with
negativity and your critical nature that just divides.
And William, besides making sure my plane was built to have a very safe and
good operating CG range, I took great pains to ensure that my plane was
built to the best of my ability, using all the educational reading materials
at my disposal, and with the best aircraft-grade materials and aircraft
engine overhaul practices of the day so that I could have confidence in
flying safely for years to come and so that I would have confidence in
giving rides to precious Mom's, Dad's, Grandparents, sons, daughters,
school kids, Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts, Aunts, Uncles, little kids, big
kids, old guys, young guys, young gals, old gals, Aunts, nieces, nephews,
neighbor kids, 4-H kids, Young Eagle kids, my own brother, dearest
friend Bill, the EAA photographers in the trenches at New Holstein, an
F-18 West Coast Demonstration Team pilot who was building his own RV-6
(named James Shoenberger in case you "suspect that Mike Cuy isn't telling
the truth.again.." ) , A Pearl Harbor survivor, an airport bum, people at
the Brodhead fly-in and many other fly-in's around Ohio, Indiana,
Pennsylvania, a high school friend and his children, his wife, his best
friend.. and yes, even Michael Perez, his lovely wife Susan , and his two
boys.
Even last night I gave a ride to a precious High School senior from the area
who means the world to me and her Mom, a Kindergarten school mate of mine
from 50 years ago (that would be 1964) (we were 5 when me met) allowed
her daughter to take flight with me and I had no reservations about giving
her that ride and sharing this wonderful gift of flight that we ultimately
build a 2-seat, open cockpit airplane for.
Mike C.
Ohio
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | larharris2 Harris <larharris2(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Michael Cuy's Weight & Balance---please see attachment |
Thanks for the clarification. I know how it is messing around with 'what if
s' in the spreadsheet.
Yet my basic question remains. What justifications do others use to deviate
from the original plans numbers? I see a lot of TLAR (That Looks About Rig
ht) reasons. I suspect that=2C as I do=2C everyone needs a bit more useful
load available. I have found a variety of numbers in the archives=2C but no
t much justification in their use.
I found a rib strength analysis by Jack Phillips from 2005. I'm going to do
some similar arithmetic for the spars to see if I can come up with a reaso
nable number for max gross weight of the airplane based upon strength (not
performance) of the wing.
If someone else has already done this=2C I'd appreciate the input.
Lorenzo
From: gboothe5(at)comcast.net
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Michael Cuy's Weight & Balance---please see a
ttachment
Date: Sun=2C 27 Jul 2014 11:21:07 -0700
Lorenzo=2C That was a mistake. The max gross weight of my Piet is 1289 lbs.
I was messing around with pilot and passenger weights to see how CG change
d=85and forgot to change it back=85 Gary BootheNX308MB
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Michael Cuy's Weight & Balance---please see attachment |
| From: | Steve Emo <steve.emo58(at)gmail.com> |
Lorenzo,
I went through the spar strength years ago and the wing is strong. May I su
ggest 1320 as a max number for light sport reasons.
I for one believe the wing is capable of more....but. In my case the advant
ages of not exceeding light sport far outweigh a few more pounds of useful l
oad.
Steve E
> On Jul 27, 2014, at 3:09 PM, larharris2 Harris wrote:
>
> Thanks for the clarification. I know how it is messing around with 'what i
fs' in the spreadsheet.
>
> Yet my basic question remains. What justifications do others use to deviat
e from the original plans numbers? I see a lot of TLAR (That Looks About Rig
ht) reasons. I suspect that, as I do, everyone needs a bit more useful load a
vailable. I have found a variety of numbers in the archives, but not much ju
stification in their use.
>
> I found a rib strength analysis by Jack Phillips from 2005. I'm going to d
o some similar arithmetic for the spars to see if I can come up with a reaso
nable number for max gross weight of the airplane based upon strength (not p
erformance) of the wing.
>
> If someone else has already done this, I'd appreciate the input.
>
> Lorenzo
>
>
>
> From: gboothe5(at)comcast.net
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Michael Cuy's Weight & Balance---please see a
ttachment
> Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2014 11:21:07 -0700
>
> Lorenzo,
>
>
>
> That was a mistake. The max gross weight of my Piet is 1289 lbs. I was mes
sing around with pilot and passenger weights to see how CG changeda
nd forgot to change it back
>
>
>
> Gary Boothe
>
> NX308MB
>
>
>
>
>
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Michael Cuy's Weight & Balance---please see attachment |
| From: | "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
Steve (Emo)- I cautiously, respectfully disagree about the stock Piet wing being
excessively strong. I have run some simple structural analysis numbers on the
wing spars and am not convinced that there is extra strength in them. However,
my calculations used several simplifying assumptions, such as (1) aircraft
is designed for Normal category and not Utility; (2) spanwise loading on the
wing is uniform, and (3) main spar carries a certain percentage of the total
moment compared to the rear spar. I am hesitant to present my calculations, so
I will only state that "I am not convinced", and "before you increase your gross
weight beyond the Pietenpol family's stated 1080 lbs., do your homework".
I could go back to the old aircraft design manuals and plug in the numbers
for the Piet spars, I suppose.
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=427418#427418
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Michael Cuy's Weight & Balance---please see attachment |
| From: | "Braniff1966" <jnl96(at)yahoo.com> |
jesus christ this plane was designed in 1927.. old piety did all of the work and
thinking.. dont worry about weight. just dont carry a fat assed passenger
or be a fat ass yourself.. just dont fuck with any thing build it and fly it.
leave the thinking to those dudes and dudettes that are good at it. i build exactly
to the plan and do NO thinking...i beleive that is the correct way.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=427423#427423
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Max Hegler <maxhegler(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Quick-Build Pietenpol |
I have a Pietenpol project for sale that is nearing completion. All fabric
covering is completed except for the fuselage. All wings=2C control surface
s and tail surfaces are covered. All instrumentation is complete and instal
led in the rear cockpit. The fuselage is on the gear (Cub style) and has l
arge motorcycle-style wheels and tires. Comes with a partially completed Mo
del A engine with dual plug head. All items needed to finish the plane are
included except for the engine mags and paint.
For photos and additional information=2C please email me directly.
Thanks=2CMax
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jim hyde <jnl96(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Quick-Build Pietenpol |
where is it and how much?=0A=0Ajim hyde =0A=0A=0AOn Sunday, July 27, 2014 1
0:11 PM, Max Hegler wrote:=0A =0A=0A=0A =0AI have a Pi
etenpol project for sale that is nearing completion. All fabric covering is
completed except for the fuselage. All wings, control surfaces and tail su
rfaces are covered. All instrumentation is complete and installed in the re
ar cockpit. The -fuselage is on the gear (Cub style) and has large motorc
ycle-style wheels and tires. Comes with a partially completed Model A engin
e with dual plug head. All items needed to finish the plane are included ex
cept for the engine mags and paint.=0A=0AFor photos and additional informat
=========
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Clif Dawson" <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Michael Cuy's Weight & Balance---please see attachment |
Oscar, from this statement am I to assume you have
divided the weight on one wing panel by the number
of feet of length?
The span loading on a Hershey bar wing like ours is
definitely not an even load along it's length. See the
attached chart. The spanwise loading for this span/chord
ratio wing panel is closest to the top one ( aspect ratio 6 ).
Clif
spanwise loading on the wing is uniform,
> Oscar Zuniga
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Orth" <mosurf(at)xplornet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Michael Cuy's Weight & Balance---please see attachment |
Awww, come on, Braniff1966. Tell us what you really think.
Michael
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----Original Message-----
From: Braniff1966
Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2014 7:36 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Michael Cuy's Weight & Balance---please see
attachment
jesus christ this plane was designed in 1927.. old piety did all of the work
and thinking.. dont worry about weight. just dont carry a fat assed
passenger or be a fat ass yourself.. just dont fuck with any thing build it
and fly it. leave the thinking to those dudes and dudettes that are good at
it. i build exactly to the plan and do NO thinking...i beleive that is the
correct way.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=427423#427423
-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-LME0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Cuy W&B data----smaller document size attached |
Piet Group: Please forgive the intrusion (as Axel Olsson says in the Grea
t Waldo Pepper) but I reformatted my weight and balance Word document to b
e
much smaller than the original .pdf file I sent Saturday in case some of yo
u didn't receive the post with the attachment.
Here's what I posted on Saturday just in case it didn't come thru for you.
Mike C.
William Wynne writes:
"the reason why I am giving Mike C a hard time on W&B is actually on your b
ehalf: I strongly suspect that Mike is not sharing his W&B because he is at
times flying behind the aft limit. That is his choice, but when he then te
lls new guys like you to build your plane just like his, I think he is doi
ng a disservice. If this is true, your loyalty is to the wrong guy. Mike, w
hen you share the numbers, be aware that I am good enough to know if you ar
e fudging it.
Dear William-you have such grand visions of paranoia about why I have not s
hared my weight and balance. My world is not small enough to worry abou
t what you think of me sharing or not sharing my weight and balance
with the list because the guy I am trying to help (as he stated just yester
day on the Pietenpol list) does in fact have paper copies of my original W
&B paperwork in-hand, Mike Perez. I also copied the great notes for Mik
e Perez
that I had on hand for Mike Perez that Bill Rewey authored on how to do a g
ood W&B on our little Pietnepol airplanes so Mike could have several differ
ent ways of doing his own calculations and choose the one that fit his math
ematic style and likes best.
And thankfully, with the outstanding W&B teachings and guidelines that my
Uncle Tony Bingelis authored for us in this wonderful book series on homeb
uilt aircraft, I was able to conduct an accurate and complete W&B on my ai
rplane and compare that with the dozens of Pietenpol builders whom I had me
t at Brodhead after measuring their wing set-back, knowing their personal
body weights, and talking with them about how their plane flies full fuel,
low fuel, long fuselage, short fuselage,
extended motor mount, as-plans motor mount and soforth and examining their
W&B paperwork to guide me as I built my Pietenpol and made my own decisions
. Go ahead and double check my original pencil-drawn and .pdf scanned pap
erwork from 16 years ago that I prepared for myself, for the FAA MIDO Insp
ector, and for future owner/operators of my aircraft for when I am long go
ne but certainly not for you and your little paranoia's about why I haven'
t posted my numbers to the list. I have better things to do with my li
fe than to fudge my data to see if you can catch any errors and I'm a bit s
tupid at times but I'm never stupid enough to build and fly my own airplane
in an aft-CG condition. You're wasting your time worrying about what yo
u "suspect" others are doing or not doing and what might motivate them and
you are distracting from the good nature of this list with negativity and y
our critical nature that just divides.
And William, besides making sure my plane was built to have a very safe an
d good operating CG range, I took great pains to ensure that my plane was
built to the best of my ability, using all the educational reading material
s at my disposal, and with the best aircraft-grade materials and aircraft
engine overhaul practices of the day so that I could have confidence in fly
ing safely for years to come and so that I would have confidence in giving
rides to precious Mom's, Dad's, Grandparents, sons, daughters, school k
ids, Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts, Aunts, Uncles, little kids, big kids, old g
uys, young guys, young gals, old gals, Aunts, nieces, nephews, neighbo
r kids, 4-H kids, Young Eagle kids, my own brother, dearest friend Bill
, the EAA photographers in the trenches at New Holstein, an F-18 West Co
ast Demonstration Team pilot who was building his own RV-6 (named James Sh
oenberger in case you "suspect that Mike Cuy isn't telling the truth...agai
n.." ) , A Pearl Harbor survivor, an airport bum, people at the Brodhead f
ly-in and many other fly-in's around Ohio, Indiana, Pennsylvania, a high s
chool friend and his children, his wife, his best friend...... and yes, ev
en Michael Perez, his wife Susan , and his two boys.
Even last night I gave a ride to a precious High School senior from the are
a who means the world to me and her Mom, a Kindergarten school mate of min
e from 50 years ago (that would be 1964) (we were 5 when me met) allowed
her daughter to take flight with me and I had no reservations about giving
her that ride and sharing this wonderful gift of flight that we ultimately
build a 2-seat, open cockpit airplane for.
Mike C.
Ohio
[cid:image001.jpg(at)01CFA8D3.1754C130]
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Brodhead Report |
| From: | "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com> |
Well, not much of a report, but it went really well. I thought plenty of Piets
for a good showing. Not as much flying as usual in terms of dawn and dusk patrols,
but I finally did get my Piet there and got in a lot of flying.
One gent came over, was looking at my plane and mentioned he BUILT one, registered
it, got it inspected, has taxied it, it's fueled and at the airport...
but has NEVER even ridden in one!
So we fixed that, gave a couple more rides to builders with no rides or experiences.
LOTS of kids that work the event. One older gentleman who giggled like
a school girl for the next two days. Really made the 10 hours of seat time getting
it there worth the effort. Probably 20 or more rides in total.
Saddled up with the Minnesota crowd and the Canadian bird and flew into Oshkosh!
THAT was quite an experience.
So, pretty busy with my project at airventure, so will be quite scarce this week.
Maybe I can get some pics and post them.
Cheers,
Tools
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=427439#427439
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Michael Cuy's Weight & Balance---please see attachment |
| From: | "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com> |
Mike (Cuy),
Would you please repost your weight and balance data? I have encountered the "Matronics
Triangle" where postings often enter and are never seen or heard from
again.
I have seen the discussion of, but not the original post. If you could redo, that
would be appreciated.
--------
Semper Fi,
Terry Hand
Athens, GA
USMC, USMCR, ATP
BVD DVD PDQ BBQ
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=427441#427441
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Michael Cuy's Weight & Balance---please see attachment |
| From: | "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
Clif; I used a uniform loading from centerline to wing tip, so my analysis was
incorrect on several counts but I knew that going in. If I use the distribution
in the graphic that you attached, it will be a bit different but not by too
much. I analyzed the cantilevered section of wing from the lift strut attach
point out to the wingtip, looking for the maximum moment to be resisted by the
forward wing spar at the lift strut attach point. The inboard section of the
wing is obviously going to be more competent to carry its load since it is supported
at both ends rather than being cantilevered. The rear spar is, similarly,
going to be competent to carry its share of the load because it is less
heavily loaded than the main spar but it is equal in section.
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=427443#427443
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Michael Cuy's Weight & Balance---please see attachment |
| From: | "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
One last, minor point: if the wing is rigged with washout, the load will be slightly
different from the graph as well. With washout, the root section is lifting
even more than the graph indicates (unless it has included some washout effect).
All of which goes to help the Piet wing, but I remain cautious about
increasing gross weight without a reasoned structural analysis.
We put men on the moon using slide rules and pencils; we don't need fancy computer
programs to figure out a wing spar structural analysis. I just haven't done
it myself or seen such an analysis done to my satisfaction. Your results may
vary, however.
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=427444#427444
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-LME0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | photo of Dan Helsper flying his Piet |
For those of you who are not on Facebook----Dan's wife posted this and I th
ought I'd share it with the group. Looks like a gorgeous day to be flying
Loensloe Airlines.....
Mike C.
Ohio
[cid:image001.png(at)01CFAA73.A0BFD080]
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-LME0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | leading edge idea for Piet wing and Westcoast Piet site |
Earl Brown mentioned my leading edge idea that I used on my Piet wings and
here's a sketch of that idea plus an idea for your trailing
edges (that I also used and found it to work well over the past 16 years)
For more chicken-scratch drawings of mine (fashioned after my hero Tony Bi
ngelis) see Chris Tracy's incredibly great Wescoast Piet web site.
Mike C.
http://westcoastpiet.com/images/Mike%20Cuy%20A-65%20Piet/mike_cuy_3.htm
[cid:image001.jpg(at)01CFAA78.35C082C0]
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> |
HELLO GOOD PEOPLE!
Well, RE-PIET's wheels touched down at her home base at 8:30am this morning
after a rather stressful trip home. The WX all the way down was
ever-changing and apparently must have been hard to forecast because the
briefing I got seemed to have NO basis in reality and every other forecast I
saw disagreed with eachother. Dan Helsper was an hour ahead of me and
kindly called me with real-time WX each time he landed which was really
invaluable for a fairly inexperienced cross-country pilot.
Illinois was pretty good, but windy as the day went on. I got down to
Kanakakee ("no gas sir, a Stearman just bought us out" thank God for my big
wing tank) before I tried for Kokomo, Indiana. WX said Kokomo was okay, but
with a big crosswind. However as I went the puffy clouds grew closer and
closer and finally became a solid ceiling which gradually descended as I got
close. I knew I could turn around and get out of it so I pressed on and
felt great relief when I saw the beautiful grass field below me. Swooped in
landed fighting a really bad crosswind, but it was fine. WX then got really
nice for a couple of hours, then a big squall line rolled through with the
first big drops and wind hitting right as we rolled my plane into a kindly
offered hangar.
Decided to be safe and stay the night as the Ohio River Valley looked like
crap. Some airport folks took me in and made me a homestyle farmhouse meal
after which I slept in the lounge.
Wheels up at 7:00am with a 16kt tailwind and made it home through another
low ceiling area, but again, I knew I could turn around AND I knew it was
good on the other side because Marci was texting me photos, so all went
well. Another big crosswind at my asphalt home field to contend with and we
were home.
Brodhead 2014 was great. The WX was PRETTY decent with good flying evenings
and mornings. It got warm and buggy, but no big thunderstorms this year and
as observed, the turnout was surprisingly good. I think I counted 14 or 15
Piets. Jill did make it down from Canada with her passenger husband and was
a joy to meet.
I'm sure I'll leave someone out so, please forgive me but in attendance was:
Bach's Piet
Dan H
Greg
Can't remember their name but the white and green one
Bob's blue with the yellow nose
"Tools" Danford's blue and yellow flew almost constantly
RE-PIET
Larry "curmudgeon" Williams on a barnstorming tour of the Midwest
Jill from the little country north of us
A corvair powered "last original" clone, maybe the oldest "non-Bernard" Piet
around
The Last Original made an appearance or two.
Bob's new beautiful Orange and Blue masterpiece
The Rudolf piet
I saw the Knight Ford-powered red and silver one fly twice, but it didn't
dain to park with the riff-raff
The Brodhead based red Scout made some flights and actually graced the
Pietenpol area for a while.
Like I said, I'm sure I'm missing someone's. We sure missed some regulars,
but it was awesome to see so many, and some new ones!
I wish the Brodhead-based PIets would come out and play more so we could all
enjoy them, but they seem happier staying in their homes.
As always, it was a great time and I'm already looking forward to Brodhead
2015
Douwe
Ps. Did you guys see the Oshkosh "twister" images? Thank God they didn't
touch down! One can only imagine.
Keep on building, it's worth it.
Pss. After sensing for the last year or two a salient shift in the tone of
our little group here, and reading some things upon my return, I am going to
put together some informal rules and suggestions that might help us regain
the kinder/gentler tone this list once had. I'm going to wait until
everyone is home and settled and I have time to put my thoughts down, then
I'll submit it for suggestions and then each time things get too
serious/silly/ or profane.. We can instantly refer to these..
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Boatright, Jeffrey" <jeffboatright(at)emory.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Brodhead Report |
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________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Brodhead 2014 |
| From: | Gary Boothe <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
I can hear it now...to the good people of Kokomo, "There I was, over the Her
ken Woods...."
Sent from my iPhone
> On Jul 28, 2014, at 12:54 PM, "Douwe Blumberg" wrote:
>
>
> HELLO GOOD PEOPLE!
>
> Well, RE-PIET=99s wheels touched down at her home base at 8:30am thi
s morning after a rather stressful trip home. The WX all the way down was e
ver-changing and apparently must have been hard to forecast because the brie
fing I got seemed to have NO basis in reality and every other forecast I saw
disagreed with eachother. Dan Helsper was an hour ahead of me and kindly c
alled me with real-time WX each time he landed which was really invaluable f
or a fairly inexperienced cross-country pilot.
>
> Illinois was pretty good, but windy as the day went on. I got down to Kan
akakee (=9Cno gas sir, a Stearman just bought us out=9D thank Go
d for my big wing tank) before I tried for Kokomo, Indiana. WX said Kokomo w
as okay, but with a big crosswind. However as I went the puffy clouds grew c
loser and closer and finally became a solid ceiling which gradually descende
d as I got close. I knew I could turn around and get out of it so I pressed
on and felt great relief when I saw the beautiful grass field below me. Sw
ooped in landed fighting a really bad crosswind, but it was fine. WX then g
ot really nice for a couple of hours, then a big squall line rolled through w
ith the first big drops and wind hitting right as we rolled my plane into a k
indly offered hangar.
>
> Decided to be safe and stay the night as the Ohio River Valley looked like
crap. Some airport folks took me in and made me a homestyle farmhouse meal
after which I slept in the lounge.
>
> Wheels up at 7:00am with a 16kt tailwind and made it home through another l
ow ceiling area, but again, I knew I could turn around AND I knew it was goo
d on the other side because Marci was texting me photos, so all went well. A
nother big crosswind at my asphalt home field to contend with and we were ho
me.
>
> Brodhead 2014 was great. The WX was PRETTY decent with good flying evenin
gs and mornings. It got warm and buggy, but no big thunderstorms this year a
nd as observed, the turnout was surprisingly good. I think I counted 14 or 1
5 Piets. Jill did make it down from Canada with her passenger husband and w
as a joy to meet.
>
> I=99m sure I=99ll leave someone out so, please forgive me but i
n attendance was:
>
> Bach=99s Piet
> Dan H
> Greg
> Can=99t remember their name but the white and green one
> Bob=99s blue with the yellow nose
> =9CTools=9D Danford=99s blue and yellow flew almost cons
tantly
> RE-PIET
> Larry =9Ccurmudgeon=9D Williams on a barnstorming tour of the M
idwest
> Jill from the little country north of us
> A corvair powered =9Clast original=9D clone, maybe the oldest
=9Cnon-Bernard=9D Piet around
> The Last Original made an appearance or two.
> Bob=99s new beautiful Orange and Blue masterpiece
> The Rudolf piet
> I saw the Knight Ford-powered red and silver one fly twice, but it didn
=99t dain to park with the riff-raff
> The Brodhead based red Scout made some flights and actually graced the Pie
tenpol area for a while.
>
>
> Like I said, I=99m sure I=99m missing someone=99s. We s
ure missed some regulars, but it was awesome to see so many, and some new on
es!
>
> I wish the Brodhead-based PIets would come out and play more so we could a
ll enjoy them, but they seem happier staying in their homes
>
> As always, it was a great time and I=99m already looking forward to B
rodhead 2015
>
> Douwe
>
> Ps. Did you guys see the Oshkosh =9Ctwister=9D images? Thank
God they didn=99t touch down! One can only imagine
>
> Keep on building, it=99s worth it.
>
> Pss. After sensing for the last year or two a salient shift in the tone o
f our little group here, and reading some things upon my return, I am going t
o put together some informal rules and suggestions that might help us regain
the kinder/gentler tone this list once had. I=99m going to wait unti
l everyone is home and settled and I have time to put my thoughts down, then
I=99ll submit it for suggestions and then each time things get too se
rious/silly/ or profane. We can instantly refer to these..
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Brodhead 2014 |
| From: | glenschweizer(at)yahoo.com |
Hi Douwe
Glad you had a safe trip. These pietenpols are all about doing things th
e old way. That is only one of the many attributes of this design.
I too have noticed the sometimes disrespect of time proven members and ai
rcraft of this group. Discussions mentioning "loyalty to the wrong guy"and s
uggesting one would"fudge" W&B data have no place here. Some rules of condu
ct are definitely in order.
I've enjoyed being a member of this group. There is much to learn and m
uch to be taught(even by arrogant,self promoting,self proclaimed experts). A
pparently, we need rules of conduct to disseminate this information so as no
t to disrespect one another. Too bad, really.
Sent from my iPhone
> On Jul 28, 2014, at 12:54 PM, "Douwe Blumberg" wrote:
>
>
> HELLO GOOD PEOPLE!
>
> Well, RE-PIET=99s wheels touched down at her home base at 8:30am thi
s morning after a rather stressful trip home. The WX all the way down was e
ver-changing and apparently must have been hard to forecast because the brie
fing I got seemed to have NO basis in reality and every other forecast I saw
disagreed with eachother. Dan Helsper was an hour ahead of me and kindly c
alled me with real-time WX each time he landed which was really invaluable f
or a fairly inexperienced cross-country pilot.
>
> Illinois was pretty good, but windy as the day went on. I got down to Kan
akakee (=9Cno gas sir, a Stearman just bought us out=9D thank Go
d for my big wing tank) before I tried for Kokomo, Indiana. WX said Kokomo w
as okay, but with a big crosswind. However as I went the puffy clouds grew c
loser and closer and finally became a solid ceiling which gradually descende
d as I got close. I knew I could turn around and get out of it so I pressed
on and felt great relief when I saw the beautiful grass field below me. Sw
ooped in landed fighting a really bad crosswind, but it was fine. WX then g
ot really nice for a couple of hours, then a big squall line rolled through w
ith the first big drops and wind hitting right as we rolled my plane into a k
indly offered hangar.
>
> Decided to be safe and stay the night as the Ohio River Valley looked like
crap. Some airport folks took me in and made me a homestyle farmhouse meal
after which I slept in the lounge.
>
> Wheels up at 7:00am with a 16kt tailwind and made it home through another l
ow ceiling area, but again, I knew I could turn around AND I knew it was goo
d on the other side because Marci was texting me photos, so all went well. A
nother big crosswind at my asphalt home field to contend with and we were ho
me.
>
> Brodhead 2014 was great. The WX was PRETTY decent with good flying evenin
gs and mornings. It got warm and buggy, but no big thunderstorms this year a
nd as observed, the turnout was surprisingly good. I think I counted 14 or 1
5 Piets. Jill did make it down from Canada with her passenger husband and w
as a joy to meet.
>
> I=99m sure I=99ll leave someone out so, please forgive me but i
n attendance was:
>
> Bach=99s Piet
> Dan H
> Greg
> Can=99t remember their name but the white and green one
> Bob=99s blue with the yellow nose
> =9CTools=9D Danford=99s blue and yellow flew almost cons
tantly
> RE-PIET
> Larry =9Ccurmudgeon=9D Williams on a barnstorming tour of the M
idwest
> Jill from the little country north of us
> A corvair powered =9Clast original=9D clone, maybe the oldest
=9Cnon-Bernard=9D Piet around
> The Last Original made an appearance or two.
> Bob=99s new beautiful Orange and Blue masterpiece
> The Rudolf piet
> I saw the Knight Ford-powered red and silver one fly twice, but it didn
=99t dain to park with the riff-raff
> The Brodhead based red Scout made some flights and actually graced the Pie
tenpol area for a while.
>
>
> Like I said, I=99m sure I=99m missing someone=99s. We s
ure missed some regulars, but it was awesome to see so many, and some new on
es!
>
> I wish the Brodhead-based PIets would come out and play more so we could a
ll enjoy them, but they seem happier staying in their homes
>
> As always, it was a great time and I=99m already looking forward to B
rodhead 2015
>
> Douwe
>
> Ps. Did you guys see the Oshkosh =9Ctwister=9D images? Thank
God they didn=99t touch down! One can only imagine
>
> Keep on building, it=99s worth it.
>
> Pss. After sensing for the last year or two a salient shift in the tone o
f our little group here, and reading some things upon my return, I am going t
o put together some informal rules and suggestions that might help us regain
the kinder/gentler tone this list once had. I=99m going to wait unti
l everyone is home and settled and I have time to put my thoughts down, then
I=99ll submit it for suggestions and then each time things get too se
rious/silly/ or profane. We can instantly refer to these..
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Brodhead 2014 |
| From: | Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com> |
You said "After sensing for the last year or two a salient shift in the
tone of our little group here, and reading some things upon my return, I am
going to put together some informal rules and suggestions that might help
us regain the kinder/gentler tone this list once had. I=99m going to
wait
until everyone is home and settled and I have time to put my thoughts down,
then I=99ll submit it for suggestions and then each time things get t
oo
serious/silly/ or profane. We can instantly refer to these."
Come on Douwe, A little contentiousness is good for the soul.
Just joking, I agree, these are two good guys with something to offer, but
both have gotten mad and just can't let it go. We as a list need to get
over this and keep moving.
--
Blue Skies,
Steve D.
On Mon, Jul 28, 2014 at 3:07 PM, Gary Boothe wrote:
> I can hear it now...to the good people of Kokomo, "There I was, over the
> Herken Woods...."
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jul 28, 2014, at 12:54 PM, "Douwe Blumberg" <
> douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>
> HELLO GOOD PEOPLE!
>
>
> Well, RE-PIET=99s wheels touched down at her home base at 8:30am th
is
> morning after a rather stressful trip home. The WX all the way down was
> ever-changing and apparently must have been hard to forecast because the
> briefing I got seemed to have NO basis in reality and every other forecas
t
> I saw disagreed with eachother. Dan Helsper was an hour ahead of me and
> kindly called me with real-time WX each time he landed which was really
> invaluable for a fairly inexperienced cross-country pilot.
>
>
> Illinois was pretty good, but windy as the day went on. I got down to
> Kanakakee (=9Cno gas sir, a Stearman just bought us out=9D th
ank God for my big
> wing tank) before I tried for Kokomo, Indiana. WX said Kokomo was okay,
> but with a big crosswind. However as I went the puffy clouds grew closer
> and closer and finally became a solid ceiling which gradually descended a
s
> I got close. I knew I could turn around and get out of it so I pressed o
n
> and felt great relief when I saw the beautiful grass field below me.
> Swooped in landed fighting a really bad crosswind, but it was fine. WX
> then got really nice for a couple of hours, then a big squall line rolled
> through with the first big drops and wind hitting right as we rolled my
> plane into a kindly offered hangar.
>
>
> Decided to be safe and stay the night as the Ohio River Valley looked lik
e
> crap. Some airport folks took me in and made me a homestyle farmhouse me
al
> after which I slept in the lounge.
>
>
> Wheels up at 7:00am with a 16kt tailwind and made it home through another
> low ceiling area, but again, I knew I could turn around AND I knew it was
> good on the other side because Marci was texting me photos, so all went
> well. Another big crosswind at my asphalt home field to contend with and
> we were home.
>
>
> Brodhead 2014 was great. The WX was PRETTY decent with good flying
> evenings and mornings. It got warm and buggy, but no big thunderstorms
> this year and as observed, the turnout was surprisingly good. I think I
> counted 14 or 15 Piets. Jill did make it down from Canada with her
> passenger husband and was a joy to meet.
>
>
> I=99m sure I=99ll leave someone out so, please forgive me but
in attendance
> was:
>
>
> Bach=99s Piet
>
> Dan H
>
> Greg
>
> Can=99t remember their name but the white and green one
>
> Bob=99s blue with the yellow nose
>
> =9CTools=9D Danford=99s blue and yellow flew almost con
stantly
>
> RE-PIET
>
> Larry =9Ccurmudgeon=9D Williams on a barnstorming tour of the
Midwest
>
> Jill from the little country north of us
>
> A corvair powered =9Clast original=9D clone, maybe the oldest
=9Cnon-Bernard=9D
> Piet around
>
> The Last Original made an appearance or two.
>
> Bob=99s new beautiful Orange and Blue masterpiece
>
> The Rudolf piet
>
> I saw the Knight Ford-powered red and silver one fly twice, but it didn
=99t
> dain to park with the riff-raff
>
> The Brodhead based red Scout made some flights and actually graced the
> Pietenpol area for a while.
>
>
> Like I said, I=99m sure I=99m missing someone=99s. We
sure missed some
> regulars, but it was awesome to see so many, and some new ones!
>
>
> I wish the Brodhead-based PIets would come out and play more so we could
> all enjoy them, but they seem happier staying in their homes
>
>
> As always, it was a great time and I=99m already looking forward to
Brodhead
> 2015
>
>
> Douwe
>
>
> Ps. Did you guys see the Oshkosh =9Ctwister=9D images? Than
k God they didn=99t
> touch down! One can only imagine
>
>
> Keep on building, it=99s worth it.
>
>
> Pss. After sensing for the last year or two a salient shift in the tone
> of our little group here, and reading some things upon my return, I am
> going to put together some informal rules and suggestions that might help
> us regain the kinder/gentler tone this list once had. I=99m going
to wait
> until everyone is home and settled and I have time to put my thoughts dow
n,
> then I=99ll submit it for suggestions and then each time things get
too
> serious/silly/ or profane. We can instantly refer to these..
>
>
> *
>
> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D
> npol-List"">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D
> //forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com>
> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D
> ot;">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D
>
> *
>
> *
>
===========
.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List>
===========
===========
om/contribution>
===========
>
> *
>
>
--
Blue Skies,
Steve D
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: leading edge idea for Piet wing and Westcoast Piet |
site
That must be where dad got the idea, he used handrail as well=0A=0AShad =0A
=0A=0AOn Monday, July 28, 2014 3:43 PM, "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-LME0)[Vantage
Partners, LLC]" wrote:=0A =0A=0A=0A =0AEarl Brow
n mentioned my leading edge idea that I used on my Piet wings and here
=99s a sketch of that idea plus an idea for your trailing =0Aedges (that
I also used and found it to work well over the past 16 years)=C2- =0A
=C2- =0AFor more chicken-scratch drawings of mine=C2- (fashioned after
my hero Tony Bingelis) see Chris Tracy=99s incredibly great Wescoast
Piet web site. =0A=C2- =0AMike C. =0A=C2- =0A=C2- =0Ahttp://westcoas
tpiet.com/images/Mike%20Cuy%20A-65%20Piet/mike_cuy_3.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: photo of Dan Helsper flying his Piet |
| From: | "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
I really like those flat-panel faceted windscreens.
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=427483#427483
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Michael Cuy's Weight & Balance---please see attachment |
| From: | "Braniff1966" <jnl96(at)yahoo.com> |
this is really wierd shit ... u guys need to spend more time drinking and hanging
out in dark tittie bars... dont you know old piety did all this for us???
DONT CHANGE ANYTHING.. ALL YOU WILL DO IS FUCKUP THE PLANE..THIS DUDES FIRST SENTENCE
SAYS IT ALL.. MY CALCULATIONS ARE INCORRECT.....DONT NEED TO READ PAST
THAT....
jim hyde
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=427485#427485
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Michael Cuy's Weight & Balance---please see attachment |
| From: | "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca> |
Wow.
Jim Hyde, stick a sock in it.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=427491#427491
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Michael Cuy's Weight & Balance---please see attachment |
| From: | earthlink1 <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net> |
I think Mr. Hyde was being overly familiar with James Beam when he made his last
post.
On Jul 28, 2014, at 11:43 PM, Bill Church wrote:
>
> Wow.
> Jim Hyde, stick a sock in it.
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=427491#427491
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Michael Cuy's Weight & Balance---please see attachment |
| From: | "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com> |
Braniff1966,
You don't really know how to speak in polite company, do you? You have sure been
asked enough times by forum members to do so. But you either can't or won't.
After 10+ years in the Marine Corps I have the ability to speak as salty as you
do, probably even better. Cursing in the Marine Corps is an art form, but I choose
not to on this forum out of respect for others. It is obvious to me that
you have none of that same respect for the wishes of others. That would involve
couth, of which you seem to have none.
So how about aspiring to sound more intelligent than a 14 year old boy at a high
school football camp?
Bill Church summarized it best. Just put a sock in it.
--------
Semper Fi,
Terry Hand
Athens, GA
USMC, USMCR, ATP
BVD DVD PDQ BBQ
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=427496#427496
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Brodhead 2014 |
| From: | "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com> |
Steve,
I agree that cooler heads should prevail, and it would indeed be nice for things
to get back to a "kinder gentler forum." But just make sure that all parties
are asked to do the same, and don't single out one side or the other.
When I first joined the forum I posted a link to a video of Pietenpols flying along
with some music that I had put together for everyone's enjoyment. I was just
trying to be nice. Well, one individual took umbrage that I had used his video
without asking nor crediting him and demanded that I either credit him or
remove it from YouTube. It got rather heated on the forum to the point I was
privately asked to back off because this person had other things going on with
their life. I am not sure he was asked to lighten the same way I was asked. So
my point is, make any complaints equal.
______________________
Glen,
I don't think you should refer to Mike Cuy as an arrogant, self promoting, self
proclaimed expert.
______________________
--------
Semper Fi,
Terry Hand
Athens, GA
USMC, USMCR, ATP
BVD DVD PDQ BBQ
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=427500#427500
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: photo of Dan Helsper flying his Piet |
| From: | "bdewenter" <anonymouse(at)woh.rr.com> |
I LIKE the GRIN! - That is motivation to complete mine!
--------
Bob 'Early Builder' Dewenter
Dayton OH
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=427501#427501
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Michael Cuy's Weight & Balance---please see attachment |
| From: | Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com> |
Terry, In the Army, cursing is not an art. It is used to pronounce
punctuation marks! It can also be used to help specify specific
individuals. IE "Terry, You *&^$@#()*)**%$#er, pick up that E-tool and get
to digging! Over the years my wife has convinced me to save cursing for
special emphasis. And then only in the correct crowd.
Oscar, I would consider putting the "Official" gross weight as close to
1300 pounds as is reasonable. While defining a True (The one used day to
day) gross that is lower. Both should be safe. But the higher one could be
used on colder winter days when you want to take a big guy up. Just a Thot.
If Mr. Hyde had ended his post at the question marks It would have been a
valid argument. I would not have agreed with it, but it would have had
merit.
Now on to something else. If I have my plane ready, do you think they will
let me enter it in the Red Bull Air Races?
Blue Skies,
Steve D
On Tue, Jul 29, 2014 at 6:08 AM, jarheadpilot82
wrote:
> jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com>
>
> Braniff1966,
>
> You don't really know how to speak in polite company, do you? You have
> sure been asked enough times by forum members to do so. But you either
> can't or won't.
>
> After 10+ years in the Marine Corps I have the ability to speak as salty
> as you do, probably even better. Cursing in the Marine Corps is an art
> form, but I choose not to on this forum out of respect for others. It is
> obvious to me that you have none of that same respect for the wishes of
> others. That would involve couth, of which you seem to have none.
>
> So how about aspiring to sound more intelligent than a 14 year old boy at
> a high school football camp?
>
> Bill Church summarized it best. Just put a sock in it.
>
> --------
> Semper Fi,
>
> Terry Hand
> Athens, GA
>
> USMC, USMCR, ATP
> BVD DVD PDQ BBQ
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=427496#427496
>
>
--
Blue Skies,
Steve D
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Builder Introduction |
| From: | "bdewenter" <anonymouse(at)woh.rr.com> |
Builder Introduction
Hello! Only a handful of the people on this list know of me, and that I own an
800 acre weasel ranch in North Dakota. I am building a Pietenpol because it
will greatly enhance the annual population census of the herd, and greatly improve
our fall roundup and herding activities. These are of course free range
weasels and they move quite a bit during the year. I currently have to rent a
C-172 and its a bit too fast for this type of work. Completing the Piet will
be HUGE!
We were blessed this year with an excellent crop of new baby weasels, and the estimate
of the total number in my heard is between 2,000 and 2,500 weasels. This
is very good news because our latest product a replacement for traditional
petroleum based grease has been approved by the American Council on Lubricants
Usage (ACLU) and of course the Chapter 2899 of the North Dakota Regional Animal
Civil Liberties Union (NDRACLU) .
The only other product approved for sale by the North Dakota Weasel Growers Association
(NDWGA) has been the more traditional weasel butter, and weasel meat.
The new lubricants group at the ranch has worked very hard to get this new product
approved and available for sale. I have already talked to the Green Tractor
company about switching over to our environmentally responsible product
and things are looking good for 2015 sales.
Things have not always gone this well. A few years ago the NDWGA hired a big advertising
agency to come up with a campaign to promote weasel butter and weasel
meat. So we paid $22,000 and before we could get the nationwide campaign launched,
our catch-phrase was stolen by the Beef industry. Thats right folks,
our new slogan Weasel, its whats for Dinner was stolen and became Beef, its whats
for Dinner. The NDWGA is pretty sure who sold us out to the cattle ranchers
but cant prove it yet. Luckily our 2013 NDWGA Weasel Pageant Queen, Sally
Olsson, from Dooley North Dakota, came up with Weasel, the other Yellow meat
and we voted unanimously to adopt that as our industry slogan during the 2013
NDWGA convention. Im glad this is all behind us.
Thats not the only bit of trouble Ive had with the operation. Every once in a while,
one of the young males tries to get the pot stirred and get the others weasels
to strike for better conditions. I always quell the herd by turning the
leader into a gelding. Each time this happens we are able to market test weasel
fries or what I like to call North Dakota Oysters.
Well enough of all this talk about me and my ranch, as I must be off now. Since
you know a little more about me, I wont be so timid to introduce myself to you
all you good people at Brodhead next year. If you are going to Barnwell in
November I will see you there.
By now.
--------
Bob 'Early Builder' Dewenter
Dayton OH
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=427503#427503
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> |
Hey Andrew,
When convenient, contact me offline and I'll get those air to air photos
coming your way. Got some good ones.
Douwe
douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Emailing: brodfhead 2014 sunset smoke |
Here's a fun Brodhead 2014 shot
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> |
And more
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Brodhead 2014 |
| From: | glenschweizer(at)yahoo.com |
Terry
Sorry for the misunderstanding
Glen
Sent from my iPhone
> On Jul 29, 2014, at 6:12 AM, "jarheadpilot82" wrote:
>
>
> Steve,
>
> I agree that cooler heads should prevail, and it would indeed be nice for things
to get back to a "kinder gentler forum." But just make sure that all parties
are asked to do the same, and don't single out one side or the other.
>
> When I first joined the forum I posted a link to a video of Pietenpols flying
along with some music that I had put together for everyone's enjoyment. I was
just trying to be nice. Well, one individual took umbrage that I had used his
video without asking nor crediting him and demanded that I either credit him
or remove it from YouTube. It got rather heated on the forum to the point I was
privately asked to back off because this person had other things going on with
their life. I am not sure he was asked to lighten the same way I was asked.
So my point is, make any complaints equal.
>
> ______________________
>
> Glen,
>
> I don't think you should refer to Mike Cuy as an arrogant, self promoting, self
proclaimed expert.
>
> ______________________
>
> --------
> Semper Fi,
>
> Terry Hand
> Athens, GA
>
> USMC, USMCR, ATP
> BVD DVD PDQ BBQ
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=427500#427500
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Boatright, Jeffrey" <jeffboatright(at)emory.edu> |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YXJlIGhlcmVieSBub3RpZmllZCB0aGF0IGFueSBkaXNzZW1pbmF0aW9uLCBkaXN0cmlidXRpb24N
Cm9yIGNvcHlpbmcgb2YgdGhpcyBtZXNzYWdlIChpbmNsdWRpbmcgYW55IGF0dGFjaG1lbnRzKSBp
cyBzdHJpY3RseQ0KcHJvaGliaXRlZC4NCg0KSWYgeW91IGhhdmUgcmVjZWl2ZWQgdGhpcyBtZXNz
YWdlIGluIGVycm9yLCBwbGVhc2UgY29udGFjdA0KdGhlIHNlbmRlciBieSByZXBseSBlLW1haWwg
bWVzc2FnZSBhbmQgZGVzdHJveSBhbGwgY29waWVzIG9mIHRoZQ0Kb3JpZ2luYWwgbWVzc2FnZSAo
aW5jbHVkaW5nIGF0dGFjaG1lbnRzKS4NCg=
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-LME0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | off subject----98 Year old Dick Cole Flies B-25 into Oshkosh........ |
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpJ8gMykbC4
Piet Group,
Please excuse the diversion from the normal Pietenpol topics but I thought
that many of you would enjoy this moving video
of Jimmy Doolitte's Toyko Raider co-pilot Dick Cole (who is now 98 years o
ld) riding along and flying into Oshkosh in a B-25.
Incredible living history at the controls of a B-25. Amazing.
Mike C.
Ohio
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Builder Introduction |
| From: | airlion2(at)gmail.com |
You are a hoot Bob. ..Gardiner
Sent from my iPad
> On Jul 29, 2014, at 10:16 AM, "bdewenter" wrote:
>
>
> Builder Introduction
>
> Hello! Only a handful of the people on this list know of me, and that I own an
800 acre weasel ranch in North Dakota. I am building a Pietenpol because it
will greatly enhance the annual population census of the herd, and greatly improve
our fall roundup and herding activities. These are of course free range
weasels and they move quite a bit during the year. I currently have to rent
a C-172 and its a bit too fast for this type of work. Completing the Piet will
be HUGE!
>
> We were blessed this year with an excellent crop of new baby weasels, and the
estimate of the total number in my heard is between 2,000 and 2,500 weasels.
This is very good news because our latest product a replacement for traditional
petroleum based grease has been approved by the American Council on Lubricants
Usage (ACLU) and of course the Chapter 2899 of the North Dakota Regional
Animal Civil Liberties Union (NDRACLU) .
>
> The only other product approved for sale by the North Dakota Weasel Growers Association
(NDWGA) has been the more traditional weasel butter, and weasel meat.
The new lubricants group at the ranch has worked very hard to get this new
product approved and available for sale. I have already talked to the Green
Tractor company about switching over to our environmentally responsible product
and things are looking good for 2015 sales.
>
> Things have not always gone this well. A few years ago the NDWGA hired a big
advertising agency to come up with a campaign to promote weasel butter and weasel
meat. So we paid $22,000 and before we could get the nationwide campaign
launched, our catch-phrase was stolen by the Beef industry. Thats right folks,
our new slogan Weasel, its whats for Dinner was stolen and became Beef, its
whats for Dinner. The NDWGA is pretty sure who sold us out to the cattle ranchers
but cant prove it yet. Luckily our 2013 NDWGA Weasel Pageant Queen, Sally
Olsson, from Dooley North Dakota, came up with Weasel, the other Yellow meat
and we voted unanimously to adopt that as our industry slogan during the 2013
NDWGA convention. Im glad this is all behind us.
>
> Thats not the only bit of trouble Ive had with the operation. Every once in a
while, one of the young males tries to get the pot stirred and get the others
weasels to strike for better conditions. I always quell the herd by turning
the leader into a gelding. Each time this happens we are able to market test
weasel fries or what I like to call North Dakota Oysters.
> Well enough of all this talk about me and my ranch, as I must be off now. Since
you know a little more about me, I wont be so timid to introduce myself to
you all you good people at Brodhead next year. If you are going to Barnwell
in November I will see you there.
>
> By now.
>
> --------
> Bob 'Early Builder' Dewenter
> Dayton OH
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=427503#427503
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com> |
Jeffrey Boatwright, based on your signature block I thought you might know
something about eyes.
What is your opinion on the various dietary supplements that claim to help
keep or improve your eyesight?
I have been diagnosed as "Pre-Glaucoma." I don't have it yet but I have a
biennial screening for it.
--
Blue Skies,
Steve D
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: off subject----98 Year old Dick Cole Flies B-25 into |
Oshkosh
| From: | "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org> |
Very cool Mike.
--------
Scott Liefeld
Flying N11MS since March 1972
Steel Tube
C-85-12
Wire Wheels
Brodhead in 1996
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=427515#427515
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org> |
I'm guessing that Jeffery doesn't know a lot about eyes. If you look closely you
will notice that he wears glasses. Or maybe that just means that supplements
don't work.
Jeffery, Please defend yourself or at least help the rest of us see more clearly.
--------
Scott Liefeld
Flying N11MS since March 1972
Steel Tube
C-85-12
Wire Wheels
Brodhead in 1996
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=427521#427521
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
I see Douwe added some 'kickers' to the ends of his formerly straight exhaust pipes.
Wonder what's up with that?
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=427530#427530
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | glenschweizer(at)yahoo.com |
Twice pipes,eh ese?
Sent from my iPhone
> On Jul 29, 2014, at 5:29 PM, "taildrags" wrote:
>
>
> I see Douwe added some 'kickers' to the ends of his formerly straight exhaust
pipes. Wonder what's up with that?
>
> --------
> Oscar Zuniga
> Medford, OR
> Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
> A75 power
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=427530#427530
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Clif Dawson" <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca> |
JATO
Clif
"The true method of knowledge is experiment." (William Blake)
> I see Douwe added some 'kickers' to the ends of his formerly straight
> exhaust pipes. Wonder what's up with that?
> Oscar Zuniga
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-LME0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | 57 second of fun-----Pietenpol Smoke System |
Piet Group (or as I like to call us all.....Infidels!)
I'd like to take a minute to apologize to the list for losing my cool recen
tly in a few of my responses that should have been handled off-list. My s
incere apologies
as this list has traditionally been an incredibly friendly place to exchang
e, help, and promote the building, flying, and enjoyment of these incredibl
y wonderful little
Pietenpol Air Camper airplanes. I am committed to contributing to this li
st and being as helpful as I can in a positive and uplifting fashion to all
who are building,
interested in building, or already flying and enjoying all the hard work a
nd fruits of your labor. We don't have room for profanity or divisivenes
s. We've got enough
of that coming thru our tv sets and movies and on the news in America.
I've made some lifelong and treasured friendships on this list that far exc
eed the importance
and value of my airplane and have come to believe the wise words of EAA fou
nder Paul Poberezny---- it's not as much about the airplanes as it is the p
eople.
And now the movie, folks. Last night I installed a new smoke system bott
le (they tend to loose pressure when you pump them up after exposed to the
mineral oil after
a season) and though I would share what the smoke looks like from the cock
pit. Great fun. I hope you all enjoy.
Mike C.
Ohio
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnMpUIwhY70&list=UUJBVQTlDP0gbWbUGYSaUt
bg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Douwe's JATO mod |
The new downturned exhaust was specifically engineered to increase climb at
full throttle.
It also might keep exhaust crap off my fuselage.
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Douwe's JATO mod |
| From: | glenschweizer(at)yahoo.com |
And besides, it looks cool. Maby some. Fuzzy dice for the front pit? Or one
of those hula girl things?
Sent from my iPhone
> On Jul 30, 2014, at 7:17 AM, "Douwe Blumberg" wrote:
>
> The new downturned exhaust was specifically engineered to increase climb a
t full throttle
>
>
>
> It also might keep exhaust crap off my fuselage
>
> Douwe
>
>
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Douwe's JATO mod |
| From: | "curtdm(at)gmail.com" <curtdm(at)gmail.com> |
Also prevents elevator droop.
--------
Curt Merdan
Flower Mound, TX
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=427544#427544
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-LME0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | which holds more oil? |
Here are the handy little Lowe's or Home Depot garden department poly spray
bottles that I use to pressurize my smoke oil (basically mineral oil) to
inject
into the right rear exhaust pipe of my A-65 engine. Every year I need to
replace the bottle because the old bottles begin to leak as soon as you pu
mp them
up from exposure to the oil after a while.
Last night I installed the new poly bottle and was bummed because it held l
ess fluid......or so I thought.
Which one do you think holds more fluid? I was surprised to read that th
e container on the right holds 56 oz. and the old bottle on the left holds
51 oz.
I still don't believe it and am going to do a little test next time I empty
out the new smoke oil bottle! (which won't take long if this gorgeous w
eather keeps up.)
Mike C.
[cid:image001.jpg(at)01CFABE7.388466F0]
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Douwe's JATO mod |
| From: | Ryan Mueller <ryan(at)rmueller.org> |
After having flown in your Piet Dan Y opined that it was, and I quote, a
"smooooooooth" ride. Possibly an unintended consequence of your exhaust
mod.....or maybe the wake turbulence off the pig's wings cancels out the
prop wash....
Either way, it was great to see you guys and RE-PIET at Brodhead,
-Ryan
On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 9:17 AM, Douwe Blumberg wrote:
> The new downturned exhaust was specifically engineered to increase climb
> at full throttle
>
>
> It also might keep exhaust crap off my fuselage
>
>
> Douwe
>
> *
>
===========
.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List>
===========
===========
om/contribution>
===========
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Boyer <boyerjrb(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: off subject----98 Year old Dick Cole Flies B-25 into |
Oshkosh........
HI Mike,
Thanks for sharing the video of Dick Cole and the B-25.
Jim B.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | NX992WD Initial W.& B. |
Crew, I got my hands on a set of race car scales and set up my plane for th
e initial W.& B. I am mainly trying to figure out where the wing needs to b
e placed for a good C.G.- Since the jury struts are not in place, nor the
diagonals, I laid the material for those across the cockpits to include th
e weight. I believe I included everything else for an accurate weight and b
alance.=0A=0A=0APlane level in both "X" and "Y" planes.-=0A=0ANo fuel and
full oil. (A-65)=0A=0AEmpty Weight = 577#- 8# difference between main
gear wheels. =0A=0A=0ATail wheel weight = 3#.=0A=0AEmpty Weight C.G. =
12" aft of wing leading edge.- Wing cabane struts are 87 deg. to longeron
s.=0A=0AFrom the numbers I am figuring, a wing shift aft of about 2"-3" is
in order.=0A=0AChecking and rechecking the measurements and math now. Once
confirmed, I'll start making the diagonals and jurys.=0A=0A=0AIf God is you
r co-pilot, switch seats=0AMike Perez=0AKaretakerAero=0AWorking W.& B. Numb
ers=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: NX992WD Initial W.& B. |
| From: | Ryan Mueller <ryan(at)rmueller.org> |
Hi Michael,
If you still have the scales it would be useful to have someone sit in
pilot's seat of the aircraft and weigh it as well. Using the maths and your
empty weight numbers you could then determine the exact arm their weight
sits at, as opposed to the guesstimate based on belly-button, mid-seat, or
what-have-you. This will allow you to arrive at very accurate CG results
for different pilot weights with at a given wing location...
A ladder and some helpers would be prudent, just to make sure everything
stays nice and stable during the process.
On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 11:26 AM, Michael Perez
wrote:
> Crew, I got my hands on a set of race car scales and set up my plane for
> the initial W.& B. I am mainly trying to figure out where the wing needs to
> be placed for a good C.G. Since the jury struts are not in place, nor the
> diagonals, I laid the material for those across the cockpits to include
> the weight. I believe I included everything else for an accurate weight and
> balance.
>
> Plane level in both "X" and "Y" planes.
>
> No fuel and full oil. (A-65)
>
> Empty Weight = 577# 8# difference between main gear wheels.
>
> Tail wheel weight = 3#.
>
> Empty Weight C.G. = 12" aft of wing leading edge. Wing cabane struts are
> 87 deg. to longerons.
>
> From the numbers I am figuring, a wing shift aft of about 2"-3" is in
> order.
>
> Checking and rechecking the measurements and math now. Once confirmed,
> I'll start making the diagonals and jurys.
>
> If God is your co-pilot, switch seats
> Mike Perez
> Karetaker Aero
> Working W.& B. Numbers
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: NX992WD Initial W.& B. |
| From: | "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
Ryan;
That is exactly what I did to determine the moment arm of the pilot and passenger,
and it came out a bit different from the "belly-button" method. Very easy
to do, as long as whoever is doing the weighing remembers to weigh themselves
on the same scales either before or after weighing the airplane.
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=427557#427557
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: NX992WD Initial W.& B. |
The scales are being returned today. However, I may be able to get them bac
k at a later time...definitely after racing season ends. (But by then the p
lane will be disassembled and in pieces staged throughout the garage/house.
..)- If I had the scales for another day or two, I would do exactly what
you recommend. That was the original plan, just ran out of time.=0A=0A-
=0AIf God is your co-pilot, switch seats=0AMike Perez=0AKaretaker Aero=0AWo
rking W.& B. Numbers
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
Jim Hyde, this discussion is not intended for you, but you're welcome to read on.
Since my previous post on this subject had no calculations behind it, I've
decided to run some numbers for my own information. Anyone else who is interested,
I'll use this thread to keep the discussion separate from Mike Cuy's W&B
and out of the hands of those who don't care. If you are of the opinion that
"it works, leave it alone" and "I'm just going to bump my own airplane's max
gross to 1300 because other guys have", then please use your key when you see
posts with the subject line "spar strength".
So is anyone using a 1" thick spar anymore? My sense is that everyone uses either
a solid 3/4" spar or a routed 3/4" spar these days. The few who build box
spars (the UK style) are in an entirely different category, because that spar
was developed with both calculations *and* load testing behind it. My interest
is in running the calculations for those who build to the plans.
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=427558#427558
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: spar strength |
Oscar, I am more than interested in what you and others take the time to re
search, test, calculate, experiment, etc. and share!- I understand that i
t takes time for guys to do the work, the research, the calculations, etc.
all to benefit those whom come after us. I will be following this Spar Stre
ngth thread.=0A=0A-=0AIf God is your co-pilot, switch seats=0AMike Perez
=0AKaretaker Aero=0AWorking W.& B. Numbers
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: NX992WD Initial W.& B. |
| From: | Ryan Mueller <ryan(at)rmueller.org> |
If I recall, I believe I have the measurements from firewall to seat back
for the aircraft we did the W&B project for at Brodhead. I'll take a look
later (tonight) and see what the difference was between the seat backs and
where we calculated the arm for the pilot to be for the various aircraft...
On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 12:00 PM, Michael Perez
wrote:
> The scales are being returned today. However, I may be able to get them
> back at a later time...definitely after racing season ends. (But by then
> the plane will be disassembled and in pieces staged throughout the
> garage/house...) If I had the scales for another day or two, I would do
> exactly what you recommend. That was the original plan, just ran out of
> time.
>
> If God is your co-pilot, switch seats
> Mike Perez
> Karetaker Aero
> Working W.& B. Numbers
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-LME0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | NX992WD Initial W.& B. |
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IEMuDQpPaGlvDQoNCg0KDQo
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: NX992WD Initial W.& B. |
I would appreciate that Ryan, any added intel. would be of help. I have been fooling
with the math using different pilot locations...10", 11", 12" etc. from
the pilot seat back, top; as well as wing sweep, fuel, pilot weight..all the variables.
It is good practice and helps visualize how the changes work and interact
with each other.
If God is your co-pilot, switch seats
Mike Perez
Karetaker Aero
Working W.& B. Numbers
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-LME0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | pilot position and W&B |
On a smooth evening you can trim out a Pietenpol to fly hands-off and then
by just leaning far forward and far backward you can make the plane gently
climb
and descend. Of course us full-figured girls have more mass to work with
when conducting this fun little experiment. Your belly button location
may vary.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: NX992WD Initial W.& B. |
Thanks Mike. Your help has been instrumental with the building process, eng
ines acquisition, calculations etc. Sharing you experiences have been more
than helpful...and entertaining at times...=0A=0A-=0AIf God is your co-pi
lot, switch seats=0AMike Perez=0AKaretaker Aero=0AWorking W.& B. Numbers
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | larharris2 Harris <larharris2(at)msn.com> |
I'm in. I would very much like to justify an increase over the original 10
80 lb gross weight.
I did a few rough calculations of the weight bearing capability of a 1" sol
id spar. At first I just plugged a few numbers into a formula & got a prepo
sterous answer. Then I studied the problem a bit more and got a more reason
able=2C although discouraging=2C answer.
Assumption: Spanwise loading is uniform (not true=2C but the calculated err
or is small). My INVALID assumption was that the 2 spars (without struts)
are carrying the entire flight load.
>From Understanding Wood by Bruce Hoadly=2C MR[Modulus of Rupture] = 1.5 (
Pmax (L))/ b(d^2)
12% dry Sitka Spruce MR= 10=2C200 psi
b= 1" (spar thickness)
d= 4.75" (spar depth)
L= 13.5 ft (total distance to the center of each wing panel=2C without th
e 'center' supported by the cabanes)
The arithmetic says that each unsupported spar can carry 952 Lb at failure.
Double that to 1894 lb because of the 2 spars.
The struts=2C therefore=2C are essential for flight. A structural analysis
of spars + struts is not a trivial exercise. I have the reference texts to
help me dig through it=2C but it will take some more time.
More to follow.
Lorenzo
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-LME0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | NX992WD Initial W.& B. |
Glad to share what info I can Mike and like the rest of us who have flying
Piets, there were always, always those who went before us and helped us out
with questions, answers,
options, and good advice to help us along. Most of my help came in the ea
rly days just before this list came to be and was gathered at the Brodhead
fly-in's. I attended my first
Brodhead in 1988......26 years ago and after talking with a bunch of guys t
here, taking a zillion measurements, notes, and photos and exchanging lett
ers and phone calls with other
builders I had a flying Piet 10 years later in 1998. 16 years after my
first flight I still get great joy out of seeing every new Piet roll out of
the garages, barns, workshops, and hangars
and take flight. Cool stuff.
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-lis
t-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael Perez
Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2014 1:50 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: NX992WD Initial W.& B.
Thanks Mike. Your help has been instrumental with the building process, eng
ines acquisition, calculations etc. Sharing you experiences have been more
than helpful...and entertaining at times...
If God is your co-pilot, switch seats
Mike Perez
Karetaker Aero
Working W.& B. Numbers
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: NX992WD Initial W.& B. |
| From: | Scott Knowlton <flyingscott_k(at)hotmail.com> |
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________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: which holds more oil? |
| From: | Gary Boothe <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
Most timely! Thanks, Mike.
Gary
NX308MB
Sent from my iPhone
> On Jul 30, 2014, at 8:12 AM, "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-LME0)[Vantage Partners,
LLC]" wrote:
>
> Here are the handy little Lowe=99s or Home Depot garden department p
oly spray bottles that I use to pressurize my smoke oil (basically mineral o
il) to inject
> into the right rear exhaust pipe of my A-65 engine. Every year I need t
o replace the bottle because the old bottles begin to leak as soon as you pu
mp them
> up from exposure to the oil after a while.
>
> Last night I installed the new poly bottle and was bummed because it held l
ess fluidor so I thought.
>
> Which one do you think holds more fluid? I was surprised to read that t
he container on the right holds 56 oz. and the old bottle on the left holds 5
1 oz.
> I still don=99t believe it and am going to do a little test next tim
e I empty out the new smoke oil bottle! (which won=99t take long if
this gorgeous weather keeps up.)
>
> Mike C.
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Boatright, Jeffrey" <jeffboatright(at)emory.edu> |
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org> |
Wow Jeff, you do know a lot about eyes. You know I was just ribbing you. Thanks
for all your work in the field.
Cheers,
--------
Scott Liefeld
Flying N11MS since March 1972
Steel Tube
C-85-12
Wire Wheels
Brodhead in 1996
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=427580#427580
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: NX992WD Initial W.& B. |
Scott, yes, from day one my priority was building light...very light. Secon
d priority was performance, (which ties in very tightly with light weight)
and last was aesthetics. The house latex comes out of the can quite thick,
however, I was able to brush it on quite thin and quite well into the weave
of the fabric. Even after 4 coats, the weave is still visible some...which
I like.- It is very obvious on top of the wings where the brush strokes,
uneven paint application, etc. are evident. The wing top already looks som
ewhat "sun cooked", if you will. But, I prefer that kind of look and have n
o intentions on "fixing" it. The paint is sound and it will protect my hang
ared aircraft just fine.=0A=0AI really did go out of my way to reduce the w
eight of the aircraft and am very pleased with the result. I really hope it
shows in the performance, once I start flight testing and dialing it all i
n.=0A=0AAll in due time...=0A=0AIf God is your co-pilot, switch seats=0AMik
e Perez=0AKaretaker Aero=0AWorking W.& B. Numbers
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: NX992WD Initial W.& B. |
| From: | Gene Rambo <generambo(at)msn.com> |
Why not just throw on a known weight in the seat and do the math for the arm rather
than the precarious process of climbing in???
Gene
On Jul 30, 2014, at 12:53 PM, "taildrags" wrote:
>
> Ryan;
>
> That is exactly what I did to determine the moment arm of the pilot and passenger,
and it came out a bit different from the "belly-button" method. Very easy
to do, as long as whoever is doing the weighing remembers to weigh themselves
on the same scales either before or after weighing the airplane.
>
> --------
> Oscar Zuniga
> Medford, OR
> Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
> A75 power
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=427557#427557
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: spar strength |
| From: | "gsnewsome" <newfaithkat(at)windstream.net> |
Very interested in this thread. One of my main concerns with the Piet is with
available useful load.
Greg
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=427585#427585
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: spar strength |
taildrags wrote:
>
> .....So is anyone using a 1" thick spar anymore? ....
Yes, I used 1" thick spars on my one-piece wing.
Patricia
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=427586#427586
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/tn_dsc00247_167.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Doug <chiefpepperhead(at)hotmail.com> |
Keep in mind the front spar carries the bulk of the load depending on aero
dynamic loading.
Doug Dever
=0A
In beautiful Stow Ohio
From: larharris2(at)msn.com
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: spar strength
Date: Wed=2C 30 Jul 2014 14:02:12 -0400
=0A
=0A
=0A
I'm in. I would very much like to justify an increase over the original 10
80 lb gross weight.
I did a few rough calculations of the weight bearing capability of a 1" sol
id spar. At first I just plugged a few numbers into a formula & got a prepo
sterous answer. Then I studied the problem a bit more and got a more reason
able=2C although discouraging=2C answer.
Assumption: Spanwise loading is uniform (not true=2C but the calculated err
or is small). My INVALID assumption was that the 2 spars (without struts)
are carrying the entire flight load.
>From Understanding Wood by Bruce Hoadly=2C MR[Modulus of Rupture] = 1.5 (
Pmax (L))/ b(d^2)
12% dry Sitka Spruce MR= 10=2C200 psi
b= 1" (spar thickness)
d= 4.75" (spar depth)
L= 13.5 ft (total distance to the center of each wing panel=2C without th
e 'center' supported by the cabanes)
The arithmetic says that each unsupported spar can carry 952 Lb at failure.
Double that to 1894 lb because of the 2 spars.
The struts=2C therefore=2C are essential for flight. A structural analysis
of spars + struts is not a trivial exercise. I have the reference texts to
help me dig through it=2C but it will take some more time.
More to follow.
Lorenzo
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
============0A
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Doug <chiefpepperhead(at)hotmail.com> |
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CSAgIAkJICA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Boatright, Jeffrey" <jeffboatright(at)emory.edu> |
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________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: spar strength |
| From: | Ken Bickers <bickers.ken(at)gmail.com> |
Oscar, I used 1" routed spars on a three piece wing. Ken
On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 6:14 PM, pjb <pjb@ornithopter-pilot.com> wrote:
>
>
> taildrags wrote:
> >
> > .....So is anyone using a 1" thick spar anymore? ....
>
>
> Yes, I used 1" thick spars on my one-piece wing.
>
> Patricia
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=427586#427586
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/tn_dsc00247_167.jpg
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: spar strength |
| From: | Gene Rambo <generambo(at)msn.com> |
As far as I can tell the 3/4 spar is the exception...
Gene
On Jul 30, 2014, at 1:04 PM, "taildrags" wrote:
>
> Jim Hyde, this discussion is not intended for you, but you're welcome to read
on. Since my previous post on this subject had no calculations behind it, I've
decided to run some numbers for my own information. Anyone else who is interested,
I'll use this thread to keep the discussion separate from Mike Cuy's
W&B and out of the hands of those who don't care. If you are of the opinion that
"it works, leave it alone" and "I'm just going to bump my own airplane's max
gross to 1300 because other guys have", then please use your key when you
see posts with the subject line "spar strength".
>
> So is anyone using a 1" thick spar anymore? My sense is that everyone uses either
a solid 3/4" spar or a routed 3/4" spar these days. The few who build box
spars (the UK style) are in an entirely different category, because that spar
was developed with both calculations *and* load testing behind it. My interest
is in running the calculations for those who build to the plans.
>
> --------
> Oscar Zuniga
> Medford, OR
> Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
> A75 power
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=427558#427558
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <jack(at)bedfordlandings.com> |
There you go being practical again, Gene...
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gene Rambo
Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2014 10:04 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: spar strength
As far as I can tell the 3/4 spar is the exception...
Gene
On Jul 30, 2014, at 1:04 PM, "taildrags" wrote:
>
> Jim Hyde, this discussion is not intended for you, but you're welcome to
read on. Since my previous post on this subject had no calculations behind
it, I've decided to run some numbers for my own information. Anyone else
who is interested, I'll use this thread to keep the discussion separate from
Mike Cuy's W&B and out of the hands of those who don't care. If you are of
the opinion that "it works, leave it alone" and "I'm just going to bump my
own airplane's max gross to 1300 because other guys have", then please use
your key when you see posts with the subject line "spar strength".
>
> So is anyone using a 1" thick spar anymore? My sense is that everyone
uses either a solid 3/4" spar or a routed 3/4" spar these days. The few who
build box spars (the UK style) are in an entirely different category,
because that spar was developed with both calculations *and* load testing
behind it. My interest is in running the calculations for those who build
to the plans.
>
> --------
> Oscar Zuniga
> Medford, OR
> Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
> A75 power
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=427558#427558
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: spar strength |
| From: | "aerocarjake" <flight.jake(at)gmail.com> |
My "replacement" rear spar blanks arrived today. They are 1.0" thick an I plan
to rout 1/4" deep pockets this weekend - without screwing them up this time....!
They were shipped by Aircraft Spruce with edges protected by some metal/cardboard
edging and they arrived flawless.
--------
Jake Schultz - curator,
Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=427595#427595
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: spar strength |
| From: | "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
Lorenzo;
As a practical matter, I suggest that you use the value of "fiber stress at the
elastic limit" for your spars rather than the modulus of rupture. As it is,
the old forest product labs data that was published in 1941 for the properties
of various woods for aircraft structures has an explanatory note with those values
that says there is a significantly wide variation between test specimens
of the same wood, same moisture content, taken from the same tree or different
trees. They used an average value, but did your wood come from the average
tree? And are the trees that are being cut today the same as the ones in the
forest in the first half of the 20th century, when most of the wood design books
were written and the research on wood for airplanes conducted?
With that said, understand that the fiber stress at the elastic limit is presented
in the tables for a load duration of only 3 seconds. Considering that the
normal category for G loading is +3.8G and that that loading can occur in a coordinated
75 degree bank, 3 seconds is probably a good safe thing to design for
and "elastic limit" means that there is no permanent deformation of the spar
as a result. Let's not fly rigorous high-G maneuvers in our Piets, eh?
Modulus of rupture, on the other hand, means if the wood sees it you're going to
rebuild a permanently broken wing after you land, or it's going to break off
in the air and you crash. When the spar experiences this kind of load, it's
irreversibly damaged. This has never happened to a Piet in the air (in the records,
anyway)- so we don't want to spoil the safety record and design to the
modulus of rupture just to get our name in the history books. Let's use the elastic
limit. Practically speaking, that's 6200 psi for spruce and 8000 psi for
Douglas fir.
Gene; point well taken. My analysis will be for 1" solid and routed spars, both
spruce and fir. The 3/4" spar will be the exception.
Doug; another point well taken, and understood. Evans and others suggest a load
fraction on the main spar of 70% of the total loading on the wing section, at
maximum lift. That's the value I'm using in my analysis. The rear spar carries
less than half of the total loading on the section, but that doesn't mean
we don't need it!
Patricia: what a beautiful piece of woodwork! Thanks for sharing the photo of
your wing. I am always mesmerized by the intricate geometry of wood-framed wings.
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=427597#427597
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | danhelsper(at)aol.com |
Does anyone know how to get ahold of Larry Keitel?=0A=0A=0ADan
Helsper=0ALoensloe Airfield=0APuryear, TN=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com> |
This morning I searched for the Carlson Aircraft website to look at strut pricing,
and the domain is for sale. I googled Sky tek and got the same thing. Am I
using the wrong URL or are they no longer in business? Does anyone know?
--------
Semper Fi,
Terry Hand
Athens, GA
USMC, USMCR, ATP
BVD DVD PDQ BBQ
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=427601#427601
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Strut Source |
| From: | Scott Knowlton <flyingscott_k(at)hotmail.com> |
Terry. I bought three sets of struts only a couple of months ago from them. I believe they are still in business. Try www.carlsonaircraft.com
Scott K
Burlington ON
Sent from my iPhone
> On Jul 31, 2014, at 7:47 AM, "jarheadpilot82" wrote:
>
>
> This morning I searched for the Carlson Aircraft website to look at strut pricing,
and the domain is for sale. I googled Sky tek and got the same thing. Am
I using the wrong URL or are they no longer in business? Does anyone know?
>
> --------
> Semper Fi,
>
> Terry Hand
> Athens, GA
>
> USMC, USMCR, ATP
> BVD DVD PDQ BBQ
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=427601#427601
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Strut Source |
| From: | Scott Knowlton <flyingscott_k(at)hotmail.com> |
Sorry Terry, just tried the site and you're right! Try calling 330 426 3934.
They had a warehouse full of aluminium struts when I talked to them in the spring.
Scott K
Sent from my iPhone
> On Jul 31, 2014, at 7:47 AM, "jarheadpilot82" wrote:
>
>
> This morning I searched for the Carlson Aircraft website to look at strut pricing,
and the domain is for sale. I googled Sky tek and got the same thing. Am
I using the wrong URL or are they no longer in business? Does anyone know?
>
> --------
> Semper Fi,
>
> Terry Hand
> Athens, GA
>
> USMC, USMCR, ATP
> BVD DVD PDQ BBQ
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=427601#427601
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Strut Source |
| From: | "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com> |
It seems to be "out of order". That is why I was asking. I know that they were
up an running a few months ago. I just did not know if they had closed their doors
recently.
--------
Semper Fi,
Terry Hand
Athens, GA
USMC, USMCR, ATP
BVD DVD PDQ BBQ
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=427604#427604
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/screen_shot_2014_07_31_at_81030_am_261.png
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | larharris2 Harris <larharris2(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: spar strength |
Oscar=2C You are correct in your recommendation to use Elastic Limit (EL) v
s MR. I'm approaching this thing step-by-step in my brain. The MR calculati
on was a quick determination of failure load to see the 'ballpark.' I inten
d to 'show my work' as we go along so others can make a reasonable determin
ation of how it can apply to them.
For those of you who are curious=2C 'failure' is where the piece of wood br
eaks. Elastic limit happens before that=3B a permanent deformation (damage)
is made by forces beyond the EL. Take a hammer to a piece of wood and you
can make dents in it before you cause it to break. We do this to a lesser d
egree when we steam our rib capstrips=3B the heat temporarily lowers the el
astic limit of the wood while we hold it in the bending jig where it takes
a permanent set.
Lorenzo
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: spar strength
> From: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
> Date: Wed=2C 30 Jul 2014 21:36:35 -0700
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>
>
> Lorenzo=3B
>
> As a practical matter=2C I suggest that you use the value of "fiber stres
s at the elastic limit" for your spars rather than the modulus of rupture.
As it is=2C the old forest product labs data that was published in 1941 fo
r the properties of various woods for aircraft structures has an explanator
y note with those values that says there is a significantly wide variation
between test specimens of the same wood=2C same moisture content=2C taken f
rom the same tree or different trees. They used an average value=2C but di
d your wood come from the average tree? And are the trees that are being c
ut today the same as the ones in the forest in the first half of the 20th c
entury=2C when most of the wood design books were written and the research
on wood for airplanes conducted?
>
> With that said=2C understand that the fiber stress at the elastic limit i
s presented in the tables for a load duration of only 3 seconds. Consideri
ng that the normal category for G loading is +3.8G and that that loading ca
n occur in a coordinated 75 degree bank=2C 3 seconds is probably a good saf
e thing to design for and "elastic limit" means that there is no permanent
deformation of the spar as a result. Let's not fly rigorous high-G maneuve
rs in our Piets=2C eh?
>
> Modulus of rupture=2C on the other hand=2C means if the wood sees it you'
re going to rebuild a permanently broken wing after you land=2C or it's goi
ng to break off in the air and you crash. When the spar experiences this k
ind of load=2C it's irreversibly damaged. This has never happened to a Pie
t in the air (in the records=2C anyway)- so we don't want to spoil the safe
ty record and design to the modulus of rupture just to get our name in the
history books. Let's use the elastic limit. Practically speaking=2C that'
s 6200 psi for spruce and 8000 psi for Douglas fir.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Strut Source |
| From: | Scott Knowlton <flyingscott_k(at)hotmail.com> |
I just spoke to them and they are still in business. Apparently their website got
hacked. Try the email below for Mary or the number from my previous post.
Scott K
Carlsonaircraft(at)att.net
Sent from my iPhone
> On Jul 31, 2014, at 8:17 AM, "jarheadpilot82" wrote:
>
>
> It seems to be "out of order". That is why I was asking. I know that they were
up an running a few months ago. I just did not know if they had closed their
doors recently.
>
> --------
> Semper Fi,
>
> Terry Hand
> Athens, GA
>
> USMC, USMCR, ATP
> BVD DVD PDQ BBQ
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=427604#427604
>
>
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/screen_shot_2014_07_31_at_81030_am_261.png
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Strut Source |
| From: | "bdewenter" <anonymouse(at)woh.rr.com> |
Terry,
I was perusing the web site just a few days ago.
--------
Bob 'Early Builder' Dewenter
Dayton OH
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=427610#427610
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Eyesight now Holiday Inn for Air Races |
| From: | Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com> |
Gentlemen, Since my eyesight is still good enough to see, I bought tickets
for the Red Bull Air Races in Fort Worth on the 6th and 7th of September.
I originally did have reservations at a Holiday Inn, but I cancelled them
for the Sleep Inn and Suites, Got a Suite to sleep 5/ and It is only one
mile from the Texas Motor Speedway, So we can walk to the races.
I am doing this on the cheap, Taking coolers with food into the stadium and
the Hotel has free breakfast. I did splurge and bought the "reserved"
seating for $10 more. Having a seat back for two days is worth it. BTW a
$60 ticket is good for both days.
Perhaps next year I will enter the races.
--
Blue Skies,
Steve D
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: spar strength |
Oscar, I'm not sure if you are looking for a database of wing spar thicknes
ses being used, however, if you are...NX992WD uses 3/4" solid spruce.=0A=0A
-=0AIf God is your co-pilot, switch seats=0AMike Perez=0AKaretaker Aero
=0AWorking W.& B. Numbers
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-LME0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | one man's spar idea.....flying for 16 years and 450 hours |
[cid:image001.jpg(at)01CFACAC.DD64B1F0]
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-lis
t-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael Perez
Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2014 10:33 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: spar strength
Oscar, I'm not sure if you are looking for a database of wing spar thicknes
ses being used, however, if you are...NX992WD uses 3/4" solid spruce.
If God is your co-pilot, switch seats
Mike Perez
Karetaker Aero
Working W.& B. Numbers
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: spar strength |
| From: | "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
Mike P.- no, I'm not looking for a database of spars. I was just inquiring about
spar thickness. My analysis includes solid and routed, 1" and 3/4", spruce
and fir. Besides the built-up I-beam and the UK box designs, I will also NOT
be studying anything deeper than the standard 4-3/4" deep FC-10 spars. People
who use the Riblett or other airfoils may be able to use a deeper spar, which
will provide increased capacity, but I'm not going there.
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=427619#427619
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: spar strength |
Understood Oscar.=0A=0A-=0AIf God is your co-pilot, switch seats=0AMike P
erez=0AKaretaker Aero=0AWorking W.& B. Numbers
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Boyer <boyerjrb(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: spar strength |
Hi Oscar,
This theme of spar strength is interesting and I have a question. I was alw
ays told that the J-3 and Aeronca Champion all had 3/4 inch spars. They als
o have, J-3 at least, 36 foot wingspan as compared to 28 for the Piet. How
then can 3/4 inch spars be considered not up to the task? All three have co
mparable weights?
Thanks,
Jim B.
=C2-
=C2-
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: spar strength |
| From: | "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
Jim B.: is this a test? ;o)
I am not studying the J-3 or Champ but after I get done with the Air Camper, I
may be interested enough to take a look at those others.
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=427623#427623
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: spar strength |
| From: | Gene Rambo <generambo(at)msn.com> |
Jesus, Guys, enough!!
If you spent half the time building that you spend worrying over minutia and running
stress analysis on an 80 year old design, we would darken the skies with
Pietenpols. Pick a max gross comparable to others and go fly the damned thing!!
Gene
On Jul 31, 2014, at 11:12 AM, "taildrags" wrote:
>
> Mike P.- no, I'm not looking for a database of spars. I was just inquiring about
spar thickness. My analysis includes solid and routed, 1" and 3/4", spruce
and fir. Besides the built-up I-beam and the UK box designs, I will also NOT
be studying anything deeper than the standard 4-3/4" deep FC-10 spars. People
who use the Riblett or other airfoils may be able to use a deeper spar, which
will provide increased capacity, but I'm not going there.
>
> --------
> Oscar Zuniga
> Medford, OR
> Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
> A75 power
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=427619#427619
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: NX992WD Initial W.& B. |
| From: | Ryan Mueller <ryan(at)rmueller.org> |
See the attached table, FWIW. This is illustrating the difference between
the location of the seat back and the arm the pilot's weight falls at in
inches, referenced from the wing's leading edge. This covers the sampling
of aircraft we weighed and measured at Brodhead. I have sorted the list by
fuselage length (measured firewall to tailpost).
(As far as I can recall, the seat back location was measured at the top
longeron)
On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 12:36 PM, Michael Perez
wrote:
> I would appreciate that Ryan, any added intel. would be of help. I have
> been fooling with the math using different pilot locations...10", 11",
> 12" etc. from the pilot seat back, top; as well as wing sweep, fuel, pilot
> weight..all the variables. It is good practice and helps visualize how the
> changes work and interact with each other.
>
>
> If God is your co-pilot, switch seats
> Mike Perez
> Karetaker Aero
> Working W.& B. Numbers
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Orth" <mosurf(at)xplornet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Strut Source |
OFF TOPIC
Terry,
I was casually reviewing the credentials you have appended to your
signature, and it seemed to me that this is a case of more-is-better.
With this in mind, following are some suggestions that may (or may not)
enhance your r=E9sum=E9.
Unfortunately, these acronyms, by their very nature, are generally used
to described negative situations or actions.
Please rest assured, my suggestions do not reflect personally on you but
are merely a product of my limited vocabulary...and the fact that you
already got the only ones suitable for mixed company.
Here are my submissions for your consideration:
FUBAR
RCH
BFH
TMI
PITA
NFG
SNAFU
Actually, on second thought, the above acronyms may be better suited for
use by another individual who regularly makes (drunken?) posts to this
forum.
Sincerely,
Michael
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
-----Original Message-----
From: jarheadpilot82
Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2014 5:14 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Strut Source
It seems to be "out of order". That is why I was asking. I know that
they were up an running a few months ago. I just did not know if they
had closed their doors recently.
--------
Semper Fi,
Terry Hand
Athens, GA
USMC, USMCR, ATP
BVD DVD PDQ BBQ
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=427604#427604
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/screen_shot_2014_07_31_at_81030_am_261
.png
-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: NX992WD Initial W.& B. |
| From: | "Ryan Mueller" <ryan(at)rmueller.org> |
I posted this via email already, but am posting it via the web-based forum as well
since Matronics is being flaky about delivering messages:
See the attached table, FWIW. This is illustrating the difference between the location
of the seat back and the arm the pilot's weight falls at in inches, referenced
from the wing's leading edge. This covers the sampling of aircraft we
weighed and measured at Brodhead. I have sorted the list by fuselage length (measured
firewall to tailpost).
(As far as I can recall, the seat back location was measured at the top longeron)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=427625#427625
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/table_182.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ben Charvet <bencharvet(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: which holds more oil? |
After watching your video, I definitely need smoke. About how long can
you smoke it on one pump up of the sprayer? Also is it in the archives
how you made the exhaust fitting, or can you just share that with us ?
It looks like it works very well, but if you have already done the
research on orifice size it could save me some time.
Ben Charvet
220 hours on NX866BC
On 7/30/2014 11:12 AM, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-LME0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]
wrote:
>
> Here are the handy little Lowe's or Home Depot garden department poly
> spray bottles that I use to pressurize my smoke oil (basically
> mineral oil) to inject
>
> into the right rear exhaust pipe of my A-65 engine. Every year I
> need to replace the bottle because the old bottles begin to leak as
> soon as you pump them
>
> up from exposure to the oil after a while.
>
> Last night I installed the new poly bottle and was bummed because it
> held less fluid......or so I thought.
>
> Which one do you think holds more fluid? I was surprised to read that
> the container on the right holds 56 oz. and the old bottle on the left
> holds 51 oz.
>
> I still don't believe it and am going to do a little test next time I
> empty out the new smoke oil bottle! (which won't take long if this
> gorgeous weather keeps up.)
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-LME0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | gross weight----it is all relative |
After doing quite a bit of Pietenpol flying and after flying several differ
ent Pietnepols both with and without passengers and Piets
with various engines and empty weights (including a 75hp Grega), you reall
y aren't limited by whatever number you choose to be call
your gross weight on your placard as much as you are the basic practicaliti
es of flight and the laws of nature. You can carry a lot heavier passeng
er on a 40F day than
you can an 85F day. You might be able to give young person a ride out of
an 1,800' grass strip with trees on both ends but you wouldn't be
able to take an adult out of the same strip.
One thing I know for sure is that Bill Rewey was able to give a LOT of ride
s to all kinds of people even on hot days with his little 65HP Pietenpol si
mply because he
built his Piet with a longer wing. (can't recall how many extra feet but
a few) The Pietenpol has roughly 6 feet less wingspan than a Cub or a Cha
mp ( I know, square
footage is the exact number but you get the idea) and I have seen (and flo
wn) Cubs and Champs with some very large passengers when I would never, eve
r consider
taking those same people up in my Piet on a given day.
If you live in Denver you won't be able to fly with as much of a load as yo
u would if you were based at an airport closer to sea level. You might be
able to carry a full load of fuel and no passenger or 10 gallons of fuel an
d an adult and such so for me the gross, safe takeoff weight of a Piet is d
etermined
by those thing for the particular day, airport, Pietenpol, and wind and e
levation and temperature conditions.
Mike C.
Ohio
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-LME0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Ben C. smoke system questions |
Hi Ben---The smoke system is a complete blast and I think if you install it
you'll have great fun with it. Below is a write-up that Chris Tracy
was kind enough to post under my heading in his Westcoast Piet web site and
then below that is a screen capture of some more details
about my smoke system that I posted on FB yesterday in the Pietenpol group.
I hope this helps!!!
Mike C.
Don & Group,
Yes, the smoke setup I have is still as per original idea and is about
as simple and reliable as you can get. I use a 2 quart
poly pump-up bug sprayer from the Wal Mart garden department, hacksaw
off the plastic handle, remove the spray wand and
discard and adapt 1/4" plastic airspeed tubing to the sprayer nozzle
with rubber hose and either tye-wraps and or hose clamps.
The 1/4" poly line is connected to a 1/4" copper, stainless, or aluminum
tube which connects to a fitting (mine is a Swaglok fitting)
that you weld into one of your aft exhaust pipes (they run hotter than
the fronts on 65 Continentals) about 1-2" down from the flange.
On the ID of the fitting that is welded to the exhaust pipe you drill
two No. 60 drill bit holes in your exhaust pipe wall and whala, you
have a smoke system. (I suppose you could drill one hole with the
same equivalent area but have not tried that)
Might want to put a vibration loop or two in your metal tubing from the
firewall to your exhaust stack to dampen the stresses and
strain on the tube so your metal doesn't fatigue.
The smoke oil I use is Texaco Canopus No. 13 which is basically a
mineral oil. They used to call it Corvus oil.
Every other year the Thunderbirds park at our NASA hangar when they are
in town and I salivate beyond measure when I go up there
and see beyond the cyclone fence about a dozen 55 gallon drums of the
smoke oil ready for the Thunderbirds to use in our airshow.
Mike C.
[cid:image001.jpg(at)01CFACCC.4490CD40]
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Doug <chiefpepperhead(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | one man's spar idea.....flying for 16 years and 450 |
hours
Thought about your idea Mike=2C but I like simple (read easy) so I'm going
with the 3/4" spar idea. Yours could be lighter=2C cheaper and stronger th
ough.
Doug Dever
=0A
In beautiful Stow Ohio
From: michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov
Subject: Pietenpol-List: one man's spar idea.....flying for 16 years and 45
0 hours
Date: Thu=2C 31 Jul 2014 14:47:47 +0000
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From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-lis
t-server(at)matronics.com]=0A
On Behalf Of Michael Perez
=0A
Sent: Thursday=2C July 31=2C 2014 10:33 AM
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Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: spar strength=0A
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Oscar=2C I'm not sure if you are looking for a database of wing spar thickn
esses being used=2C however=2C if you are...NX992WD=0A
uses 3/4" solid spruce.=0A
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If God is your co-pilot=2C switch seats=0A
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Mike Perez=0A
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Karetaker=0A
Aero=0A
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Working W.& B. Numbers=0A
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ietenpol-List Email Forum -=0A
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tor?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List=0A
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e>=0A
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bution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution=0A
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Doug <chiefpepperhead(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: spar strength |
I believe several=2C including the last original use 3/4 spars. Who says i
t's not up to the task?
Doug Dever
=0A
In beautiful Stow Ohio
Date: Thu=2C 31 Jul 2014 16:23:04 +0000
From: boyerjrb(at)comcast.net
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: spar strength
Hi Oscar=2C
=0A
This theme of spar strength is interesting and I have a question. I was alw
ays told that the J-3 and Aeronca Champion all had 3/4 inch spars. They als
o have=2C J-3 at least=2C 36 foot wingspan as compared to 28 for the Piet.
How then can 3/4 inch spars be considered not up to the task? All three hav
e comparable weights?
Thanks=2C
=0A
Jim B.
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=0A
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=0A
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=0A
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=0A
=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Doug <chiefpepperhead(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | gross weight----it is all relative |
Good to know about Bill Rewey's as this is the only thing I would consider
changing. I have a lot of experience in a particular short wing piper on f
loats and it made a great speed boat at times. A super cub at the same wei
ght would fly circles around it with the same hp. I'm just not sure I feel
comfortable with the engineering.
Doug Dever
=0A
In beautiful Stow Ohio
From: michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov
Subject: Pietenpol-List: gross weight----it is all relative
Date: Thu=2C 31 Jul 2014 18:24:50 +0000
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
After doing quite a bit of Pietenpol flying and after flying several differ
ent Pietnepols both with and without passengers and Piets=0A
with various engines and empty weights (including a 75hp Grega)=2C you rea
lly aren=92t limited by whatever number you choose to be call=0A
your gross weight on your placard as much as you are the basic practicaliti
es of flight and the laws of nature. You can carry a lot heavier passeng
er on a 40F day than=0A
you can an 85F day. You might be able to give young person a ride out of
an 1=2C800=92 grass strip with trees on both ends but you wouldn=92t be=0A
=0A
able to take an adult out of the same strip. =0A
=0A
One thing I know for sure is that Bill Rewey was able to give a LOT of ride
s to all kinds of people even on hot days with his little 65HP Pietenpol si
mply because he=0A
built his Piet with a longer wing. (can=92t recall how many extra feet bu
t a few) The Pietenpol has roughly 6 feet less wingspan than a Cub or a C
hamp ( I know=2C square=0A
footage is the exact number but you get the idea) and I have seen (and flo
wn) Cubs and Champs with some very large passengers when I would never=2C e
ver consider=0A
taking those same people up in my Piet on a given day. =0A
=0A
=0A
If you live in Denver you won=92t be able to fly with as much of a load as
you would if you were based at an airport closer to sea level. You might
be=0A
able to carry a full load of fuel and no passenger or 10 gallons of fuel an
d an adult and such so for me the gross=2C safe takeoff weight of a Piet is
determined=0A
by those thing for the particular day=2C airport=2C Pietenpol=2C and wind
and elevation and temperature conditions. =0A
=0A
=0A
Mike C.=0A
Ohio=0A
=0A
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=0A
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=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ray Krause <raykrause(at)frontiernet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: spar strength |
My spars are 3/4" solid spruce with 1X1/8" plywood strips glued to each side
along the top and bottom of the spars, creating a 1" thick spar on the top a
nd bottom edges. Wings are complete, not covered.
Hope this is of any use,
Ray Krause
SkyScout building in progress
Sent from my iPad
> On Jul 31, 2014, at 7:33 AM, Michael Perez wrot
e:
>
> Oscar, I'm not sure if you are looking for a database of wing spar thickne
sses being used, however, if you are...NX992WD uses 3/4" solid spruce.
>
> If God is your co-pilot, switch seats
> Mike Perez
> Karetaker Aero
> Working W.& B. Numbers
>
>
>
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: spar strength |
| From: | "Braniff1966" <jnl96(at)yahoo.com> |
jim b
dont confuse these people with real facts.. they want to sit arond and yap about
already decided things.. if they are worried about the wing just increase the
strut diameter and double the jury struts..my plane has a 1 inch spar no routing
on a three piece wing.....
jim hyde
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=427641#427641
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: gross weight----it is all relative |
| From: | "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com> |
Mike,
I understand what you are saying about different Density Altitudes, payloads, temperatures,
etc. affecting the airplanes you have flown. However, I don't think
that the most recent discussion primarily led by Oscar has been about that
at all. His discussion has been about max gross weight determined based upon design
strength, not performance capability.
For example, If you wanted to build a really light Pietenpol you could probable
save some weight by putting in 1/2 inch thick spars (maybe even 1/4 inch!) and
it would be lighter. But I am guessing that the spars would fail at far less
than the suggested 1080 pound gross weight. That would happen whether it was
March, or July, Colorado or Florida. It would not matter if it was a standard
day of 59 degrees or 102 degrees. The spars would likely fail. Not because of
the performance that day, but based upon design strength.
I am not an aerodynamicist, nor did I sleep in a Holiday Inn Express last night,
but I do think that we are speaking about 2 different things.
--------
Semper Fi,
Terry Hand
Athens, GA
USMC, USMCR, ATP
BVD DVD PDQ BBQ
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=427642#427642
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Boyer <boyerjrb(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: spar strength |
HI Doug,
=C2-
No one said its not up to the task; but it is implied when they say 1" is w
hat they will figure on and basically not consider the 3/4" spar=C2-even
though the J-3 and Aeronca champ have 3/4" spars. These airplanes have been
flying with 3/4" spars for a long time; newer models do have aluminium spa
rs.
Jim B.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Boyer <boyerjrb(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: spar strength |
No test Oscar just curious why 1" spar other than the plans do show 1" except most
I thought were now using 3/4".
Cheers,
Jim B.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-LME0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: gross weight----it is all relative |
That makes perfect sense Terry and I see the perspective that Oscar is comi
ng from. I was looking at gross weight from the other end of the spectru
m but I completely see where
Oscar is coming from, yes---good points. The neat thing about the Piet
enpol accident record database is that (unless I missed it) there's no reco
rd of a structural wing failure which is
such a tribute to the Piet design given that there have been some white-pin
e and Elmer's Carpenter glue Piets built and flown out there:) ! I was s
o amazed at the severe jolting I took
on my 2005 return trip from WI to OH and that the airplane acted like nothi
ng to it even though I prayed all the way home:) !
Mike C.
Mike,
I understand what you are saying about different Density Altitudes, payload
s, temperatures, etc. affecting the airplanes you have flown. However, I do
n't think that the most recent discussion primarily led by Oscar has been a
bout that at all. His discussion has been about max gross weight determined
based upon design strength, not performance capability.
For example, If you wanted to build a really light Pietenpol you could prob
able save some weight by putting in 1/2 inch thick spars (maybe even 1/4 in
ch!) and it would be lighter. But I am guessing that the spars would fail a
t far less than the suggested 1080 pound gross weight. That would happen w
hether it was March, or July, Colorado or Florida. It would not matter if i
t was a standard day of 59 degrees or 102 degrees. The spars would likely f
ail. Not because of the performance that day, but based upon design strengt
h.
I am not an aerodynamicist, nor did I sleep in a Holiday Inn Express last n
ight, but I do think that we are speaking about 2 different things.
--------
Semper Fi,
Terry Hand
Athens, GA
USMC, USMCR, ATP
BVD DVD PDQ BBQ
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=427642#427642
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: spar strength |
| From: | danhelsper(at)aol.com |
I STILL haven't filled-in the data plate with a gross weight
!=0A=0A=0ADan Helsper=0ALoensloe Airfield=0APuryear, TN=0A=0A=0A=0A-----Or
iginal Message-----=0AFrom: Gene Rambo <generambo(at)msn.com>=0ATo: piete
npol-list =0ASent: Thu, Jul 31, 2014 1
2:07 pm=0ASubject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: spar strength=0A=0A=0A-->
Pietenpol-List message posted by: Gene Rambo =0A
=0AJesus, Guys, enough!!=0A=0AIf you spent half the time buildin
g that you spend worrying over minutia and =0Arunning stress
analysis on an 80 year old design, we would darken the ski
es with =0APietenpols. Pick a max gross comparable to others
and go fly the damned thing!!=0A=0AGene=0A=0AOn Jul 31, 2014,
at 11:12 AM, "taildrags" wrote:=0A=0A> -->
Pietenpol-List message posted by: "taildrags" =0A
> =0A> Mike P.- no, I'm not looking for a database of sp
ars. I was just inquiring =0Aabout spar thickness. My an
alysis includes solid and routed, 1" and 3/4", =0Aspruce and
fir. Besides the built-up I-beam and the UK box designs,
I will also =0ANOT be studying anything deeper than the stan
dard 4-3/4" deep FC-10 spars. =0APeople who use the Riblett
or other airfoils may be able to use a deeper spar, =0A
which will provide increased capacity, but I'm not going there
.=0A> =0A> --------=0A> Oscar Zuniga=0A> Medford, OR=0A> Air Cam
per NX41CC "Scout"=0A> A75 power=0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A
> Read this topic online here:=0A> =0A> http://forums.matronics.co
m/viewtopic.php?p=427619#427619=0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A>
===========================
===========================
===========================
-Matt Dralle
===========================
========0A=0A=0A=0A=0A =0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: gross weight----it is all relative |
| From: | "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com> |
I have that T shirt as well, Mike. ;-)
--------
Semper Fi,
Terry Hand
Athens, GA
USMC, USMCR, ATP
BVD DVD PDQ BBQ
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=427653#427653
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: spar strength |
| From: | "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
Jim B.-
The important characteristic of a beam's ability to resist bending is the section
modulus. For a rectangular beam, the section modulus varies as the *square*
of the height of the beam. If you double the height of a beam, you don't just
double its section modulus, you make it four times greater. The Air Camper
main spar is 4-3/4" tall, but the Piper Cub main spar is 6-1/4" tall. From this,
you can see that the Cub spar can be less thick than the 1" Air Camper spar
but still have comparable strength in bending.
I don't know what the Champ spar dimensions are, but my guess is that they are
also taller than those of the Air Camper.
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=427656#427656
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: spar strength |
| From: | Gene Rambo <generambo(at)msn.com> |
Aaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrgggggggggggghhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!
Gene
On Jul 31, 2014, at 6:57 PM, "taildrags" wrote:
>
> Jim B.-
>
> The important characteristic of a beam's ability to resist bending is the section
modulus. For a rectangular beam, the section modulus varies as the *square*
of the height of the beam. If you double the height of a beam, you don't
just double its section modulus, you make it four times greater. The Air Camper
main spar is 4-3/4" tall, but the Piper Cub main spar is 6-1/4" tall. From
this, you can see that the Cub spar can be less thick than the 1" Air Camper
spar but still have comparable strength in bending.
>
> I don't know what the Champ spar dimensions are, but my guess is that they are
also taller than those of the Air Camper.
>
> --------
> Oscar Zuniga
> Medford, OR
> Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
> A75 power
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=427656#427656
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | larharris2 Harris <larharris2(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: gross weight----it is all relative |
Mike C.=2C I greatly value your opinions as one who has built and been flyi
ng a Piet for many years. And this issue is no exception. I appreciate that
I am likely to run out of performance margin before I run out of structura
l margin. Yet I have a need to know exactly what that structural margin rea
lly is.
My plans say to use a 1080 lb gross weight limit. Yet others say I can add
200 - 300 lb more 'no problem.' 'We have been doing it for years.' On a ni
ce smooth day=2C for a few sightseeing circuits around the pattern=2C this
may be no problem.
When completed and flying=2C my plane will be based at the western edge of
the Smoky Mountains. Not unusual here to have mechanical turbulence near th
e mountains. While I won't deliberately fly into known 'heavy' air=2C I nee
d to do the arithmetic to know what my margins really are if I run up my ma
x gross weight.
I appreciate all you do for this group.
Lorenzo
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Builder Introduction |
| From: | "dgaldrich" <dgaldrich(at)embarqmail.com> |
Somebody has WAAAY too much time on their hands and access to mind altering pharmaceuticals.
Bob, how far is it from Ohio to Colorado....
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=427663#427663
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: spar strength |
| From: | "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
OK, this will be my last post on the subject. If anyone is interested in this
subject, email me privately at taildrags(at)hotmail.com . All posts to the list
will be ignored.
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=427667#427667
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: spar strength |
| From: | Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com> |
Oscar, What was that second thing you said?
Steve D.
On Thu, Jul 31, 2014 at 6:53 PM, taildrags wrote:
>
> OK, this will be my last post on the subject. If anyone is interested in
> this subject, email me privately at taildrags(at)hotmail.com . All posts to
> the list will be ignored.
>
> --------
> Oscar Zuniga
> Medford, OR
> Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
> A75 power
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=427667#427667
>
>
--
Blue Skies,
Steve D
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: spar strength |
I was interested in this thread.
I'm sorry to see it end.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=427672#427672
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | larharris2 Harris <larharris2(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: spar strength |
It's not over=2C 'til it's over. I'll continue to add stuff as I am able.
I need to know.
Lorenzo
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: spar strength
> From: pjb@ornithopter-pilot.com
> Date: Thu=2C 31 Jul 2014 17:36:52 -0700
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>
>
> I was interested in this thread.
> I'm sorry to see it end.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <jack(at)bedfordlandings.com> |
| Subject: | Re: spar strength |
Actually, Oscar, the section moduls is a function of the CUBE of the spar
height, so doubling the height makes it 8 times stronger
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of larharris2
Harris
Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2014 8:44 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: spar strength
It's not over, 'til it's over. I'll continue to add stuff as I am able. I
need to know.
Lorenzo
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: spar strength
> From: pjb@ornithopter-pilot.com
> Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2014 17:36:52 -0700
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>
>
> I was interested in this thread.
> I'm sorry to see it end.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: spar strength |
| From: | Gene Rambo <generambo(at)msn.com> |
Jack, I'm gonna kill you!
;)))
Gene
On Jul 31, 2014, at 8:58 PM, "Jack Phillips" wrot
e:
> Actually, Oscar, the section moduls is a function of the CUBE of the spar h
eight, so doubling the height makes it 8 times stronger
>
> Jack Phillips
> NX899JP
> Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
>
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-li
st-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of larharris2 Harris
> Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2014 8:44 PM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: spar strength
>
> It's not over, 'til it's over. I'll continue to add stuff as I am able. I
need to know.
>
> Lorenzo
>
>
>
>
> > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: spar strength
> > From: pjb@ornithopter-pilot.com
> > Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2014 17:36:52 -0700
> > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> >
> >
> > I was interested in this thread.
> > I'm sorry to see it end.
> >
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> http://forums.matronics.com
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Boatright, Jeffrey" <jeffboatright(at)emory.edu> |
Hi Oscar,
I am interested in the spar analysis thread and I encourage you to bring it back
onto the list. It would be an odd thing if a list about an experimental airplane
design discouraged discussion about wing spars.
Jeff
Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD, FARVO
Professor of Ophthalmology
Emory University School of Medicine
Sent from an iPad with a spelling problem
________________________________
This e-mail message (including any attachments) is for the sole use of
the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged
information. If the reader of this message is not the intended
recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution
or copying of this message (including any attachments) is strictly
prohibited.
If you have received this message in error, please contact
the sender by reply e-mail message and destroy all copies of the
original message (including attachments).
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: spar strength |
| From: | "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com> |
Mr. Hyde,
The same reason that guys like to do math and tweak an 80 year old design and talk
about it is the same reason that guys soup up their engines on old cars, and
the same reason guys pimp their rides and the same reason guys try and tweak
the last little bit of performance out of their airplane at the Reno air races.
Because, to them, it is FUN.
There is this thing on your keyboard called a delete key. If you don't like what
Oscar or anyone else writes about any area of building on this website, then
simply use it, and you will never have to worry about that discussion again.
If you don't like it, then just don't read it, but stop commenting on something
of which they have interest, but you don't.
That is why I have about decided to take my own advice and do that with your posts.
--------
Semper Fi,
Terry Hand
Athens, GA
USMC, USMCR, ATP
BVD DVD PDQ BBQ
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=427688#427688
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: spar strength |
| From: | danhelsper(at)aol.com |
Man am I glad you are back on here Gene. I need the la
ughs!! HA!=0A=0A=0ADan Helsper=0ALoensloe Airfield,=0APuryear, TN=0A=0A=0A
=0A-----Original Message-----=0AFrom: Gene Rambo <generambo(at)msn.com>=0AT
o: pietenpol-list =0ASent: Thu, Jul 31,
2014 6:32 pm=0ASubject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: spar strength=0A=0A
.com>=0A=0AAaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrgggggggggggghhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!=0A=0AGene=0A=0A
On Jul 31, 2014, at 6:57 PM, "taildrags"
=0A> =0A> Jim B.-=0A> =0A> The important ch
aracteristic of a beam's ability to resist bending is the =0A
section modulus. For a rectangular beam, the section modulus
varies as the =0A*square* of the height of the beam. If
you double the height of a beam, you =0Adon't just double
its section modulus, you make it four times greater. The
Air =0ACamper main spar is 4-3/4" tall, but the Piper Cub
main spar is 6-1/4" tall. =0AFrom this, you can see that
the Cub spar can be less thick than the 1" Air =0ACamper
spar but still have comparable strength in bending.=0A> =0A> I
don't know what the Champ spar dimensions are, but my gue
ss is that they are =0Aalso taller than those of the Air
Camper.=0A> =0A> --------=0A> Oscar Zuniga=0A> Medford, OR=0A> Air
Camper NX41CC "Scout"=0A> A75 power=0A> =0A> =0A> =0A
> =0A> Read this topic online here:=0A> =0A> http://forums.matro
nics.com/viewtopic.php?p=427656#427656=0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A>
===========================
===========================
===========================
-Matt Dra
===========================
=========0A=0A=0A=0A=0A =0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: gross weight----it is all relative |
| From: | danhelsper(at)aol.com |
All this talk about setting the Gross weight limit.......it is
a mute point once you finish your airplane and start to
fly. The number is meaningless. The only important number I
consider is "how much the passenger weighs, and how hot of
a day is it? And maybe how much fuel do I have? When s
omebody walks up to you at Brodhead and asks for a ride,
I don't break out the slide rule for calculations. It is j
ust an eyeball estimate, mostly based on how chunky the pote
ntial passenger looks, and how much svinkter it took to get
the previous passenger into the air.=0A=0A=0ADan Helsper=0ALoensloe
Airfield=0APuryear, TN=0A=0A=0A=0A-----Original Message-----=0AFrom: larha
rris2 Harris =0ATo: pietenpol-list =0ASent: Thu, Jul 31, 2014 6:34 pm=0ASubject: RE: P
ietenpol-List: Re: gross weight----it is all relative=0A=0A=0A=0AMik
e C., I greatly value your opinions as one who has built
and been flying a Piet for many years. And this issue is
no exception. I appreciate that I am likely to run out of
performance margin before I run out of structural margin. Yet
I have a need to know exactly what that structural margin
really is.=0A =0AMy plans say to use a 1080 lb gross weigh
t limit. Yet others say I can add 200 - 300 lb more 'n
o problem.' 'We have been doing it for years.' On a nic
e smooth day, for a few sightseeing circuits around the patt
ern, this may be no problem.=0A =0AWhen completed and flying,
my plane will be based at the western edge of the Smoky
Mountains. Not unusual here to have mechanical turbulence near
the mountains. While I won't deliberately fly into known 'heav
y' air, I need to do the arithmetic to know what my marg
ins really are if I run up my max gross weight.=0A =0AI
appreciate all you do for this group.=0A =0ALorenzo=0A=0A =0A=0A
===========================
= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum -=0A
===========================
===========================
===========================0A
===========================
============0A=0A=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: NX992WD Initial W.& B. |
Thanks for table and your time Ryan.=0A=0A-=0AIf God is your co-pilot, sw
itch seats=0AMike Perez=0AKaretaker Aero=0AWorking W.& B. Numbers
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Spar analysis |
I agree with Jeff, Oscar. At least this subject is Pietenpol related.=0A-
=0A=0AIf God is your co-pilot, switch seats=0AMike Perez=0AKaretaker Aero
=0AWorking W.& B. Numbers
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Spar analysis |
| From: | "gsnewsome" <newfaithkat(at)windstream.net> |
Agree. Those that are not interested can skip over the thread.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=427695#427695
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: gross weight----it is all relative |
| From: | "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com> |
Actually, the number does matter... sort of.
Should you be involved in an incident, involving the FAA and an investigation,
and they find you are above the weight rating selected for your plane, you're
gonna get dinged.
What's the consequence of the "ding", who knows? May not matter to you at all.
Probably would matter to me as I'm a professional pilot.
In my thinking, one would be better to select a higher than average limit, so you
can get the most out of your plane legally.
THEN you can apply good judgment based on specific conditions.
I realize this applies more to Mike's perspective, than Terry's, it's just that
it wasn't mentioned at all (as far as I can tell, don't get all the posts) and
thought I'd throw it out there.
At the EAA we have a 1927 Swallow. The weight rating given to that plane means
we can only take a 180lb or less passenger in it (now that it has a bigger heavier
motor, tail wheel, seat belts, radio... etc).
The plane is PERFECTLY capable of a LOT more, but since it's in commercial operation,
we can't afford to take chances, and therefore really have a useless plane.
The paperwork to get that rating changed, is WAAAY too hard.
Of course, to apply this to Terry's perspective, it's easy. Load the plane down
until failure, and use the appropriate percentage of that! Then build a new
one EXACTLY like it. As you can see, the number really doesn't mean anything
unless that is done. The 1080 lb number is probably reasonable though.
Food for thought.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=427696#427696
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Builder Introduction |
| From: | "bdewenter" <anonymouse(at)woh.rr.com> |
I thought the forum could use a little levity. I hope I was successful.
--------
Bob 'Early Builder' Dewenter
Dayton OH
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=427699#427699
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Boatright, Jeffrey" <jeffboatright(at)emory.edu> |
| Subject: | BBC vid reminds me of Larry Wms Piet paint |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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Build Milestones! |
Well, I know this isn't much for most of you builders and your great progress....but
I just have to share some recent progress on the "People's Piet". A couple
items I've worked, re worked and lost sleep over for the last few years JUST
fell into place! I love this building process!
Disclaimer: The attached pictures (I reduced their size to hopefully minimize
download time) show a LOT of ugly, unvarnished holes, blemishes, etc. Yes, I'll
clean it all up! So don't give me a hard time about it! :-)
Throttle linkage. I had a solid round 1/8" rod in there that was going to be a
pain to terminate at the carb. And it was a bit heavy. And a pain to route.
I found a flexible push pull cable in my "old stuff taken off a salvaged fuse"
box and it fit perfectly! I've ended up redoing SO much of this damaged fuse
I got from another builder that I probably should have just started off fresh
and built it from the beginning myself! I've just about done that anyway.
Oh well.
Aileron. FINALLY get to move the controls and the ailerons, rudder and "flippers"
MOVE!!! REALLY appreciate all the info in the archives about aileron/elevator/rudder
travel! It's great to do a Matronics search and find quick answers
to my dumb questions.
Sure is nice having a REAL crimping tool to do the cables! Thanks Mike C for the
loan....I just hope I don't forget where it came from!! just kidding.
Seat belts. Another rework with...FINALLY...what appears to be a good solution!
And this is another one I built a looooong time ago and improved several times
only to "improve it" back to the way I originally put it in there. I was
concerned about the rudder cable contacting the seat belt fittings so added the
tubing....probably unnecessary.
I won't bore everyone with more but there IS a lot more recent progress. This
idea of going working on it every day, even if just for 15 minutes....WORKS!
Amazing....(even though it has tuned into "hours" a few times...but that's ok!)
So while everyone else has been barnstorming all over the place...the Markle "People's
Piet" (in my shop ONLY because of a lot of VERY caring, generous people,
thank you very much!) has recently seen MAJOR leaps forward in the build progress!
Forgive me for the looooong message...sometimes the excitement is just too much!
:-)
Jim in Pryor
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Build Milestones! |
| From: | Ken Bickers <bickers.ken(at)gmail.com> |
Love it! Looking good, Jim.
Ken
On Fri, Aug 1, 2014 at 6:54 AM, Jim Markle
wrote:
> Well, I know this isn't much for most of you builders and your great
> progress....but I just have to share some recent progress on the "People's
> Piet". A couple items I've worked, re worked and lost sleep over for the
> last few years JUST fell into place! I love this building process!
>
> Disclaimer: The attached pictures (I reduced their size to hopefully
> minimize download time) show a LOT of ugly, unvarnished holes, blemishes,
> etc. Yes, I'll clean it all up! So don't give me a hard time about it!
> :-)
>
> Throttle linkage. I had a solid round 1/8" rod in there that was going to
> be a pain to terminate at the carb. And it was a bit heavy. And a pain to
> route. I found a flexible push pull cable in my "old stuff taken off a
> salvaged fuse" box and it fit perfectly! I've ended up redoing SO much of
> this damaged fuse I got from another builder that I probably should have
> just started off fresh and built it from the beginning myself! I've just
> about done that anyway. Oh well.
>
> Aileron. FINALLY get to move the controls and the ailerons, rudder and
> "flippers" MOVE!!! REALLY appreciate all the info in the archives about
> aileron/elevator/rudder travel! It's great to do a Matronics search and
> find quick answers to my dumb questions.
>
> Sure is nice having a REAL crimping tool to do the cables! Thanks Mike C
> for the loan....I just hope I don't forget where it came from!! just
> kidding.
>
> Seat belts. Another rework with...FINALLY...what appears to be a good
> solution! And this is another one I built a looooong time ago and improved
> several times only to "improve it" back to the way I originally put it in
> there. I was concerned about the rudder cable contacting the seat belt
> fittings so added the tubing....probably unnecessary.
>
> I won't bore everyone with more but there IS a lot more recent progress.
> This idea of going working on it every day, even if just for 15
> minutes....WORKS! Amazing....(even though it has tuned into "hours" a few
> times...but that's ok!)
>
> So while everyone else has been barnstorming all over the place...the
> Markle "People's Piet" (in my shop ONLY because of a lot of VERY caring,
> generous people, thank you very much!) has recently seen MAJOR leaps
> forward in the build progress!
>
> Forgive me for the looooong message...sometimes the excitement is just too
> much! :-)
>
> Jim in Pryor
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: gross weight----it is all relative |
| From: | "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com> |
Dan,
Actually it is not a moot point at all.
When you got your aircraft inspected by the FAA, you had to indicate a maximum
gross weight. Hopefully you used something more that a couple of bathroom scales
to determine your aircrafts empty weight.
You are correct that you should not have to break out a slide rule every time you
decide to go flying. That is because you broke out the slide rule early on,
and did precise computations to determine your C.G. range. Now you can decide
based upon those computations that you can only take an 80 pound kid in the front
seat before you are flying out of the proper C.G. range, or you are able
to take a 250 pound fat body with no problem.
Then you can take a look at your density altitude and runway length to determine
whether or not it is safe to take the fat body flying, or the conditions are
such that it is not even wise to take the 80 pound kid flying. If you are out
west you may even find that you cant carry yourself and a full bag of gas. But
you know all of this because you did do the slide rule work early on.
This is not meant to insult your intelligence, Dan. I am sure that you already
know this and do it on a regular basis. But we do have some newly-minted pilots
on this forum as well as guys that are still taking lessons. They need to know
this and develop good habits early on in managing risk.
I can assure you that if you dont ask your self these questions before you fly,
the FAA will ask you these questions if you have an incident. What was your calculated
takeoff weight? What was the density altitude and runway length? Were
you in the proper C.G. range when you took off? Its ask now, or possibly be
asked later.
--------
Semper Fi,
Terry Hand
Athens, GA
USMC, USMCR, ATP
BVD DVD PDQ BBQ
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=427705#427705
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> |
Please allow me to interject.
I want to go on record as saying that I personally would find a definitive
stress analysis of the Pietenpol wing fascinating and informative. What's
the big deal if some guys want to run some numbers?? If the topic doesn't
interest you, most keyboards have a "delete" button. End of problem.
Oscar has been flying "Scout" for over a decade and knows it is safe. He is
not questioning the airworthiness of an "80-year-old" design, his curiosity
has simply been peeked by some questions which he'd like to be able to
answer authoritatively.
This thread is directly Pietenpol related and very interesting. I don't
seem to remember Jack P catching any flack a few years back when he did
something similar.
Does it not seem highly inappropriate that Oscar feels he needs to go "off
list" to provide a Pietenpol wing analysis on a Pietenpol discussion
forum???
What gives everybody??
$.02
Douwe
Ps. Oscar, would you please include me in your "off list" group? I am
fascinated to hear what you come up with.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-LME0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Jim Markle's progress! |
What a GREAT report to the list Jim and for every step of progress forward
you make like you have recently it gives you motivation to get the next th
ing done
on your to-do list. Fantastic motivation you've given yourself and other
s who are reading of your progress who need to get back out in the shop and
knock a few things off of their to-do list this weekend!
Mike C.
[cid:image001.jpg(at)01CFAD6B.51E3C020]
Jim Markle and his brother Josh at Medina Airport, Medina, Ohio a couple
of years ago
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Builder Introduction |
| From: | "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com> |
Bob,
Nicely done! Will you be carrying fat weasel ale onboard?
--------
Semper Fi,
Terry Hand
Athens, GA
USMC, USMCR, ATP
BVD DVD PDQ BBQ
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=427709#427709
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/fat_weasel_ale_302.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Build Milestones! |
You're not far from fabric and paint...every little step matters all the more.
I'm just glad to see that you're moving along...
Gary Boothe
NX308MB
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Markle
Sent: Friday, August 01, 2014 5:54 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Build Milestones!
Well, I know this isn't much for most of you builders and your great progress....but
I just have to share some recent progress on the "People's Piet". A couple
items I've worked, re worked and lost sleep over for the last few years JUST
fell into place! I love this building process!
Disclaimer: The attached pictures (I reduced their size to hopefully minimize
download time) show a LOT of ugly, unvarnished holes, blemishes, etc. Yes, I'll
clean it all up! So don't give me a hard time about it! :-)
Throttle linkage. I had a solid round 1/8" rod in there that was going to be a
pain to terminate at the carb. And it was a bit heavy. And a pain to route.
I found a flexible push pull cable in my "old stuff taken off a salvaged fuse"
box and it fit perfectly! I've ended up redoing SO much of this damaged fuse
I got from another builder that I probably should have just started off fresh
and built it from the beginning myself! I've just about done that anyway.
Oh well.
Aileron. FINALLY get to move the controls and the ailerons, rudder and "flippers"
MOVE!!! REALLY appreciate all the info in the archives about aileron/elevator/rudder
travel! It's great to do a Matronics search and find quick answers
to my dumb questions.
Sure is nice having a REAL crimping tool to do the cables! Thanks Mike C for the
loan....I just hope I don't forget where it came from!! just kidding.
Seat belts. Another rework with...FINALLY...what appears to be a good solution!
And this is another one I built a looooong time ago and improved several times
only to "improve it" back to the way I originally put it in there. I was
concerned about the rudder cable contacting the seat belt fittings so added the
tubing....probably unnecessary.
I won't bore everyone with more but there IS a lot more recent progress. This
idea of going working on it every day, even if just for 15 minutes....WORKS!
Amazing....(even though it has tuned into "hours" a few times...but that's ok!)
So while everyone else has been barnstorming all over the place...the Markle "People's
Piet" (in my shop ONLY because of a lot of VERY caring, generous people,
thank you very much!) has recently seen MAJOR leaps forward in the build progress!
Forgive me for the looooong message...sometimes the excitement is just too much!
:-)
Jim in Pryor
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Jim Markle's progress! |
Jim is a serial DNA depositor.
Gary Boothe
NX308MB
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cuy, Michael
D. (GRC-LME0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]
Sent: Friday, August 01, 2014 6:31 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Jim Markle's progress!
What a GREAT report to the list Jim and for every step of progress forward
you make like you have recently it gives you motivation to get the next
thing done
on your to-do list. Fantastic motivation you've given yourself and others
who are reading of your progress who need to get back out in the shop and
knock a few things off of their to-do list this weekend!
Mike C.
Jim Markle and his brother Josh at Medina Airport, Medina, Ohio a couple
of years ago
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Build Milestones! |
| From: | "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org> |
Jim,
Don't you just love it when a plan (plane in your case) comes together? Nice work.
Can't wait to see the rest of the plane.
Keep up the good work,
--------
Scott Liefeld
Flying N11MS since March 1972
Steel Tube
C-85-12
Wire Wheels
Brodhead in 1996
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=427713#427713
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Spar analysis |
I agree with Jeff.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=427714#427714
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Build Milestones! |
| From: | "echobravo4" <eab4(at)comcast.net> |
Congratulations Jim!
It looks great!
--------
Earl Brown
I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I
intended to be.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=427715#427715
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Build Milestones! |
| From: | Greg Bacon <gbacon67(at)gmail.com> |
Nice work Jim. Outstanding build quality. Keep up the progress.!
On Fri, Aug 1, 2014 at 7:54 AM, Jim Markle
wrote:
> Well, I know this isn't much for most of you builders and your great
> progress....but I just have to share some recent progress on the "People's
> Piet". A couple items I've worked, re worked and lost sleep over for the
> last few years JUST fell into place! I love this building process!
>
> Disclaimer: The attached pictures (I reduced their size to hopefully
> minimize download time) show a LOT of ugly, unvarnished holes, blemishes,
> etc. Yes, I'll clean it all up! So don't give me a hard time about it!
> :-)
>
> Throttle linkage. I had a solid round 1/8" rod in there that was going to
> be a pain to terminate at the carb. And it was a bit heavy. And a pain to
> route. I found a flexible push pull cable in my "old stuff taken off a
> salvaged fuse" box and it fit perfectly! I've ended up redoing SO much of
> this damaged fuse I got from another builder that I probably should have
> just started off fresh and built it from the beginning myself! I've just
> about done that anyway. Oh well.
>
> Aileron. FINALLY get to move the controls and the ailerons, rudder and
> "flippers" MOVE!!! REALLY appreciate all the info in the archives about
> aileron/elevator/rudder travel! It's great to do a Matronics search and
> find quick answers to my dumb questions.
>
> Sure is nice having a REAL crimping tool to do the cables! Thanks Mike C
> for the loan....I just hope I don't forget where it came from!! just
> kidding.
>
> Seat belts. Another rework with...FINALLY...what appears to be a good
> solution! And this is another one I built a looooong time ago and improved
> several times only to "improve it" back to the way I originally put it in
> there. I was concerned about the rudder cable contacting the seat belt
> fittings so added the tubing....probably unnecessary.
>
> I won't bore everyone with more but there IS a lot more recent progress.
> This idea of going working on it every day, even if just for 15
> minutes....WORKS! Amazing....(even though it has tuned into "hours" a few
> times...but that's ok!)
>
> So while everyone else has been barnstorming all over the place...the
> Markle "People's Piet" (in my shop ONLY because of a lot of VERY caring,
> generous people, thank you very much!) has recently seen MAJOR leaps
> forward in the build progress!
>
> Forgive me for the looooong message...sometimes the excitement is just too
> much! :-)
>
> Jim in Pryor
>
>
--
Greg Bacon
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Build Milestones! |
| From: | "aerocarjake" <flight.jake(at)gmail.com> |
Very nice.... helps inspire us all...!!
--------
Jake Schultz - curator,
Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=427723#427723
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Doug <chiefpepperhead(at)hotmail.com> |
PLease include me too Oscar.
Doug Dever
=0A
In beautiful Stow Ohio
From: douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net
Subject: Pietenpol-List: wing loads
Date: Fri=2C 1 Aug 2014 09:25:57 -0400
Please allow me to interject=85 I want to go on record as saying that I per
sonally would find a definitive stress analysis of the Pietenpol wing fasci
nating and informative. What=92s the big deal if some guys want to run som
e numbers?? If the topic doesn=92t interest you=2C most keyboards have a
=93delete=94 button. End of problem=85 Oscar has been flying =93Scout=94 f
or over a decade and knows it is safe. He is not questioning the airworthi
ness of an =9380-year-old=94 design=2C his curiosity has simply been peeked
by some questions which he=92d like to be able to answer authoritatively.
This thread is directly Pietenpol related and very interesting. I don=92t
seem to remember Jack P catching any flack a few years back when he did som
ething similar. Does it not seem highly inappropriate that Oscar feels he
needs to go =93off list=94 to provide a Pietenpol wing analysis on a Piete
npol discussion forum??? What gives everybody?? $.02 Douwe Ps. Oscar=2C wo
uld you please include me in your =93off list=94 group? I am fascinated to
hear what you come up with.=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
============0A
============0A
============0A
============0A
=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Quick Air Venture update |
| From: | "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com> |
Hey folks,
Been a good week so far. Have a minute with a puter, so thought I'd mention that
the Hatz guys' "vintage homebuilts" area is pretty nice.
Greg Cardinal put his plane there, sad it was the only one. I'm guilty as charged,
I managed to weasel a hangar and have mine in there. My only defense is
that I have not yet put together a tie down and weather kit...
Greg, Bob and I all flew into the ultralight strip and that worked great. Now
that I've done it, should we do it again, I do recommend actually riding with
someone to see it first... or not going during a microburst! GREAT feeling to
have gotten all the way to Osh though, especially via Brodhead.
Jill from Canada flew the regular Ripon arrival and had no problems. We actually
passed each other while taxiing to our respective places. There were jets,
big twins, all sorts of stuff, it was nice to a see a friendly face in the crowd
so to speak.
Bob and Greg also took off from the ultralight strip, THAT is definitely a good
way to go. They really seem open to helping us there, but going through Greg
is probably the way to go.
My first time here with a plane, as big and bad as the place is, everyone generally
is VERY helpful. Many things can only be done, by just doing them. For
example, to taxi from the ultralight strip, to way over where my hangar was, everyone
said it can't be done, but go ahead and go that way and ask the next guy.
As I progressed, it just worked out. Turns out, many people really only
know their immediate area, which makes sense. It's WAY too big to know the ins
and outs of it all. So what seemed impossible, was easy.
Bob and Greg are safely home. Last I heard from Jill, she was half way to MN and
doing well. I'll be heading back down when I can find another fly in to hit
on the way through somewhere. I'm sure that'll be an adventure. Douwe, what's
your sked?
That's all for now, not sure if there's any more Piets or not, haven't seen any.
Have run across lots of folks from Brodhead though.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=427728#427728
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Build Milestones! |
Very nice to hear progress is being made, regardless of how small or insign
ificant it might seem. I like hearing the reports and seeing the pictures.
However, I need more intel on your overall status on the build, if you don'
t mind sharing. Wings built? Tail? Engine selected? landing gear? I'm just
not up to speed on how far along you are in the total arena that is the fin
e art of building an experimental aircraft.=0A=0A-=0AIf God is your co-pi
lot, switch seats=0AMike Perez=0AKaretaker Aero=0AWorking W.& B. Numbers
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Build Milestones! |
Disregard my "wings done?" question Jim...I see the nice picture you just p
osted and they look complete to me.=0A=0A-=0AIf God is your co-pilot, swi
tch seats=0AMike Perez=0AKaretaker Aero=0AWorking W.& B. Numbers
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Build Milestones! |
| From: | Jack <jack(at)textors.com> |
Outstanding Jim! Glad you continued the build.
Sent from my iPad
Jack Textor
> On Aug 1, 2014, at 7:54 AM, Jim Markle wrote:
>
> Well, I know this isn't much for most of you builders and your great progress....but
I just have to share some recent progress on the "People's Piet". A couple
items I've worked, re worked and lost sleep over for the last few years
JUST fell into place! I love this building process!
>
> Disclaimer: The attached pictures (I reduced their size to hopefully minimize
download time) show a LOT of ugly, unvarnished holes, blemishes, etc. Yes,
I'll clean it all up! So don't give me a hard time about it! :-)
>
> Throttle linkage. I had a solid round 1/8" rod in there that was going to be
a pain to terminate at the carb. And it was a bit heavy. And a pain to route.
I found a flexible push pull cable in my "old stuff taken off a salvaged fuse"
box and it fit perfectly! I've ended up redoing SO much of this damaged
fuse I got from another builder that I probably should have just started off fresh
and built it from the beginning myself! I've just about done that anyway.
Oh well.
>
> Aileron. FINALLY get to move the controls and the ailerons, rudder and "flippers"
MOVE!!! REALLY appreciate all the info in the archives about aileron/elevator/rudder
travel! It's great to do a Matronics search and find quick answers
to my dumb questions.
>
> Sure is nice having a REAL crimping tool to do the cables! Thanks Mike C for
the loan....I just hope I don't forget where it came from!! just kidding.
>
> Seat belts. Another rework with...FINALLY...what appears to be a good solution!
And this is another one I built a looooong time ago and improved several
times only to "improve it" back to the way I originally put it in there. I was
concerned about the rudder cable contacting the seat belt fittings so added
the tubing....probably unnecessary.
>
> I won't bore everyone with more but there IS a lot more recent progress. This
idea of going working on it every day, even if just for 15 minutes....WORKS!
Amazing....(even though it has tuned into "hours" a few times...but that's ok!)
>
> So while everyone else has been barnstorming all over the place...the Markle
"People's Piet" (in my shop ONLY because of a lot of VERY caring, generous people,
thank you very much!) has recently seen MAJOR leaps forward in the build
progress!
>
> Forgive me for the looooong message...sometimes the excitement is just too much!
:-)
>
> Jim in Pryor
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-LME0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | take a short flight in NX48MC |
http://youtu.be/iiGZFPX4lv8
3:12 long.
With missing Brodhead and all I had to get my 'fixes' by flying a few times
this week from my home airport here
southwest of Cleveland. Hope you enjoy!
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: take a short flight in NX48MC |
Mike Hi!
What video arrangement did you use?
Regards
Gerry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Boatright, Jeffrey" <jeffboatright(at)emory.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: take a short flight in NX48MC |
VmVyeSBuaWNlISBCdXQgZG9u4oCZdCBrZWVwIHVzIGluIHN1c3BlbnNlIOKAlCBob3cgZGlkIHRo
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YXR0YWNobWVudHMpLg0K
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ray Krause <raykrause(at)frontiernet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: take a short flight in NX48MC |
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: take a short flight in NX48MC |
| From: | "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org> |
How do we know that he even landed yet? He may have posted it from his I-PAD
while still flying.
Mike, correct me if I'm wrong here, I think you guys in that part of the country
need the smoke system to see where you came from. There no mountains or even
hills to determine which direction you are going or coming from. Just look
for the smoke and you'll find the airport you left from.
--------
Scott Liefeld
Flying N11MS since March 1972
Steel Tube
C-85-12
Wire Wheels
Brodhead in 1996
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=427754#427754
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: take a short flight in NX48MC |
| From: | Michael Conkling <jmconkling(at)gmail.com> |
Naw, you use "old school" navigation -- an old road map, circle at 500 ft
to read the name on the water tower, and follow the section lines ( IFRrr -
I fly roads, railroads, and rivers -- "don't need no stinken GPS" ;-)
(another) Mike C.
Pretty Prairie, KS
On Fri, Aug 1, 2014 at 1:22 PM, AircamperN11MS
wrote:
> Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org>
>
> How do we know that he even landed yet? He may have posted it from his
> I-PAD while still flying.
>
> Mike, correct me if I'm wrong here, I think you guys in that part of the
> country need the smoke system to see where you came from. There no
> mountains or even hills to determine which direction you are going or
> coming from. Just look for the smoke and you'll find the airport you left
> from.
>
> --------
> Scott Liefeld
> Flying N11MS since March 1972
> Steel Tube
> C-85-12
> Wire Wheels
> Brodhead in 1996
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=427754#427754
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-LME0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | take a short flight in NX48MC----how was the landing? |
Thankfully I had another uneventful landing and was able to walk away unass
isted and she sits in the hangar awaiting the next
time!
And Gerry, I simply use a hand-held (using the camera strap) little Olymp
us pocket camera in video mode and move it around by hand.
And you're right Michael Conkling, most of my navigation is just by landmar
ks but on cross countries I do take a little Garmin III gps. And Scott
L.,
the best part about flying around Cleveland is that you can't get lost beca
use of Lake Erie. If the lake gets bigger: going north. If the lake is
to
your right: Going West. If the lake is to your left: going east. Ca
n't see the lake? You're going south.
Mike C.
[cid:image001.jpg(at)01CFADA0.E3D28130] [cid:image002.jpg(at)01CFADA0.E3D28130
]
http://youtu.be/iiGZFPX4lv8
3:12 long.
With missing Brodhead and all I had to get my 'fixes' by flying a few times
this week from my home airport here
southwest of Cleveland. Hope you enjoy!
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Build Milestones! |
| From: | "aviken" <aviken(at)windstream.net> |
Hey Jim , You continue to inspire this Arkie to keep his nose to the sandpaper.
It is my dream to meet you somewhere next year and fly wing to wing with you
to Brodhead. I know you can make it, I just don't know if I can.. But that
is my goal.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=427763#427763
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: take a short flight in NX48MC----how was the landing? |
| From: | Ken Bickers <bickers.ken(at)gmail.com> |
those circular blue lines on the surface probably help with navigation, too
.
:)
On Fri, Aug 1, 2014 at 1:54 PM, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-LME0)[Vantage
Partners, LLC] wrote:
> Thankfully I had another uneventful landing and was able to walk away
> unassisted and she sits in the hangar awaiting the next
>
> time!
>
>
> And Gerry, I simply use a hand-held (using the camera strap) little
> Olympus pocket camera in video mode and move it around by hand.
>
>
> And you=99re right Michael Conkling, most of my navigation is just
by
> landmarks but on cross countries I do take a little Garmin III gps. A
nd
> Scott L.,
>
> the best part about flying around Cleveland is that you can=99t get
lost
> because of Lake Erie. If the lake gets bigger: going north. If the
> lake is to
>
> your right: Going West. If the lake is to your left: going east.
> Can=99t see the lake? You=99re going south.
>
>
> Mike C.
>
>
> http://youtu.be/iiGZFPX4lv8
>
>
> 3:12 long.
>
>
> With missing Brodhead and all I had to get my =98fixes=99 by
flying a few
> times this week from my home airport here
>
> southwest of Cleveland. Hope you enjoy!
>
>
> Mike C.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: take a short flight in NX48MC----how was the landing? |
Thanks Mike on Camera spec. Very good quality.
Gerry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | take a short flight in NX48MC |
I want smoke!
Gary Boothe
NX308MB
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cuy, Michael
D. (GRC-LME0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]
Sent: Friday, August 01, 2014 8:55 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: take a short flight in NX48MC
http://youtu.be/iiGZFPX4lv8
3:12 long.
With missing Brodhead and all I had to get my 'fixes' by flying a few times
this week from my home airport here
southwest of Cleveland. Hope you enjoy!
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
I am reminded of the Zenith list, several years ago. When the 601XL had some
wing problems, the list became very divided. A splinter group broke off,
convinced that they needed to do the engineering for Zenith, and feelings
got hurt. My suggestion is to keep the strut analysis issue on the Piet
list. It'll run its course.and eventually the questions will be answered.
Gary Boothe
NX308MB
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Doug
Sent: Friday, August 01, 2014 8:02 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: wing loads
PLease include me too Oscar.
Doug Dever
In beautiful Stow Ohio
_____
From: douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net
Subject: Pietenpol-List: wing loads
Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2014 09:25:57 -0400
Please allow me to interject.
I want to go on record as saying that I personally would find a definitive
stress analysis of the Pietenpol wing fascinating and informative. What's
the big deal if some guys want to run some numbers?? If the topic doesn't
interest you, most keyboards have a "delete" button. End of problem.
Oscar has been flying "Scout" for over a decade and knows it is safe. He is
not questioning the airworthiness of an "80-year-old" design, his curiosity
has simply been peeked by some questions which he'd like to be able to
answer authoritatively.
This thread is directly Pietenpol related and very interesting. I don't
seem to remember Jack P catching any flack a few years back when he did
something similar.
Does it not seem highly inappropriate that Oscar feels he needs to go "off
list" to provide a Pietenpol wing analysis on a Pietenpol discussion
forum???
What gives everybody??
$.02
Douwe
Ps. Oscar, would you please include me in your "off list" group? I am
fascinated to hear what you come up with.
==========
st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
==========
http://forums.matronics.com
==========
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
==========
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: take a short flight in NX48MC |
| From: | glenschweizer(at)yahoo.com |
Another smoke fluid: Try anti-freeze...amazing hang time even better in cool
er weather. Use it straight from the radiator. Available free at most mech
anic shops
Sent from my iPhone
> On Aug 1, 2014, at 1:16 PM, "Gary Boothe" wrote:
>
> I want smoke!
>
> Gary Boothe
> NX308MB
>
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-li
st-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-LME0)[Vantage Par
tners, LLC]
> Sent: Friday, August 01, 2014 8:55 AM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: take a short flight in NX48MC
>
> http://youtu.be/iiGZFPX4lv8
>
> 3:12 long.
>
> With missing Brodhead and all I had to get my =98fixes=99 by f
lying a few times this week from my home airport here
> southwest of Cleveland. Hope you enjoy!
>
> Mike C.
>
>
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> http://forums.matronics.com
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-LME0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | side note about smoke and smoke oil for Pietenpols |
Gary-smoke is just a blast to have. With your electrical system you cou
ld probably use a salvage yard or new replacement windshield
washer pump/reservoir setup. I don't know if the washer pumps have the k
ind of pressure you need but I don't see why it wouldn't
work as long as it could overcome the backpressure in the exhaust stack.
You only need to inject into one exhaust stack too. As long as
you inject in that first 1-2" the oil with smoke really well.
I believe Chuck Gantzer used a windshield washer pump for his baby oil smok
e system and it worked well but the baby oil didn't have as white
a look as the mineral oil.
I use the regular air show smoke oil so it does well but isn't cheap but th
ankfully some distributors sell it in 5 gallon buckets. Not sure what th
e trade
name for the stuff is now since I haven't purchased any in a while but it u
sed to be Texaco Canopus Oil #13, before that it was Corvis oil.
Kyle Franklin posted this on his web page about the various smoke oils he a
sks for when making an air show appearance.
[cid:image001.png(at)01CFADA6.1E994010]
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | side note about smoke and smoke oil for Pietenpols |
Thanks, Mike! Since I have 'straight' pipes, any puking of oil will be on
the side and the struts. I guess that's a price worth paying.
Gary Boothe
NX308MB
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cuy, Michael
D. (GRC-LME0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]
Sent: Friday, August 01, 2014 1:32 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: side note about smoke and smoke oil for Pietenpols
Gary-smoke is just a blast to have. With your electrical system you
could probably use a salvage yard or new replacement windshield
washer pump/reservoir setup. I don't know if the washer pumps have the
kind of pressure you need but I don't see why it wouldn't
work as long as it could overcome the backpressure in the exhaust stack.
You only need to inject into one exhaust stack too. As long as
you inject in that first 1-2" the oil with smoke really well.
I believe Chuck Gantzer used a windshield washer pump for his baby oil smoke
system and it worked well but the baby oil didn't have as white
a look as the mineral oil.
I use the regular air show smoke oil so it does well but isn't cheap but
thankfully some distributors sell it in 5 gallon buckets. Not sure what
the trade
name for the stuff is now since I haven't purchased any in a while but it
used to be Texaco Canopus Oil #13, before that it was Corvis oil.
Kyle Franklin posted this on his web page about the various smoke oils he
asks for when making an air show appearance.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: take a short flight in NX48MC |
| From: | Greg Bacon <gbacon67(at)gmail.com> |
Pretty cool. Thanks Mike!
On Fri, Aug 1, 2014 at 10:54 AM, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-LME0)[Vantage
Partners, LLC] wrote:
> http://youtu.be/iiGZFPX4lv8
>
>
> 3:12 long.
>
>
> With missing Brodhead and all I had to get my =98fixes=99 by
flying a few
> times this week from my home airport here
>
> southwest of Cleveland. Hope you enjoy!
>
>
> Mike C.
>
>
> *
>
===========
.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List>
===========
===========
om/contribution>
===========
>
> *
>
>
--
Greg Bacon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Doug <chiefpepperhead(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: take a short flight in NX48MC |
Been all the way to the arctic and back with out any roads=2C railroads or
GPS.
Doug Dever
=0A
In beautiful Stow Ohio
Date: Fri=2C 1 Aug 2014 14:30:47 -0500
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: take a short flight in NX48MC
From: jmconkling(at)gmail.com
Naw=2C you use "old school" navigation -- an old road map=2C circle at 500
ft to read the name on the water tower=2C and follow the section lines ( IF
Rrr - I fly roads=2C railroads=2C and rivers -- "don't need no stinken GPS"
=3B-)=0A
=0A
=0A
(another) Mike C.=0A
Pretty Prairie=2C KS
=0A
On Fri=2C Aug 1=2C 2014 at 1:22 PM=2C AircamperN11MS <Scott.liefeld@lacity.
org> wrote:
=0A
y.org>
=0A
How do we know that he even landed yet? He may have posted it from his
I-PAD while still flying.
Mike=2C correct me if I'm wrong here=2C I think you guys in that part of
the country need the smoke system to see where you came from. There no mou
ntains or even hills to determine which direction you are going or coming f
rom. Just look for the smoke and you'll find the airport you left from.
=0A
--------
Scott Liefeld
Flying N11MS since March 1972
Steel Tube
C-85-12
Wire Wheels
Brodhead in 1996
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=427754#427754
=0A
utilities such as List Un/Subscription=2C
=0A
://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List" target="_blank">http://www
.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
=0A
href="http://forums.matronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.matr
onics.com
=0A
-Matt Dralle=2C List Admin.
=0A
====
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
============0A
============0A
============0A
============0A
=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Distance LE to front spar |
| From: | "Pocono John" <tinmotion(at)yahoo.com> |
With reference to drawing 5, lower wing profile drawing shows 6 3/4" from leading
edge to front of forward spar. Drawing the wing using measurements from the
top drawing, my forward spar front face is at 6 1/2". If I move the forward spar
back 1/4", then both front and rear spars will be in correct spots according
to the lower profile drawing (rear spar will be 23 1/2" from TE). The spars
won't line up though with the measurements on the upper drawing.
I think 1/4" off here could throw things off a bit.
I hope to make Brodhead next year.
Thank you.
--------
John
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=427781#427781
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Distance LE to front spar |
| From: | "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com> |
And your question is?
Or is it simply a statement? I am not sure what you are trying to communicate.
--------
Semper Fi,
Terry Hand
Athens, GA
USMC, USMCR, ATP
BVD DVD PDQ BBQ
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=427785#427785
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Distance LE to front spar |
| From: | "Pocono John" <tinmotion(at)yahoo.com> |
I saw both profiles lined up with one another, and I saw the back of the forward
spar was in line with the airfoil at the 5 9/16" thickness point. Drawing the
spar there gave me 6 1/2" to the LE.
I was wondering if it's better to move the spar back 1/4", which of course moves
the rear spar also, but gives correct dimensions from LE and TE.
I see this was probably a dumb question and I'll move the spar a 1/4" back.
As far as question 2, I'm going to make that 'tongue' a little thicker than 5/8"
I'm afraid I'm still trying to read the plans literally. I know I need to stop
doing that. I'm trying to view the plans as only rough ideas/sketches and that
I'll need to adjust everything, but it's difficult.
Thanks.
--------
John
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=427786#427786
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Distance LE to front spar |
| From: | "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca> |
John,
I don't have my plans here to check against, but from memory:
1) Regarding the wing drawing - I don't recall the spars being shown in the top
detail - just dimensions to be used to generate the profile for the airfoil.
I believe the lower detail (with all the wood pieces shown) is the only drawing
that shows the spars.
2) Regarding the empennage, the "main beam" has an overall thickness of 1", with
3/16" deep rabbets top and bottom, leaving 5/8" in the middle. That 3/16" is
there to accept the capstrips, which are 3/16" thick. When putting the different
profiles together, you have to get creative, and taper some of the pieces
where they join together at the corners. This also involves shaving off some
excess material to line up with the face of the gussets. The 5/8" dimension
works.
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=427790#427790
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | piperj3cubflyer <piperj3cubflyer(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: which holds more oil? |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Clif Dawson" <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: take a short flight in NX48MC |
You like smoke?
I geeve you smoke!
Clif
I want smoke!
Gary Boothe
NX308MB
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | take a short flight in NX48MC |
I'm flyin' out of the wrong airport!
Gary Boothe
NX308MB
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Clif Dawson
Sent: Friday, August 01, 2014 8:48 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: take a short flight in NX48MC
You like smoke?
I geeve you smoke!
Clif
I want smoke!
Gary Boothe
NX308MB
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com> |
Gene,
Gene,
Humor is often tonal, so it is hard to get it in the written word. Contrast the
lady at the store check out saying to you, "have a nice day!" In a happy tone
with the guy saying "have a nice day" in a tone that really says "@&$)!&@!$&
you!". Same 4 words, much different meanings. Same with humor. That is what makes
humor writers rich - their ability to communicate humor via the written word.
Don't feel bad. Few of us have that gift.
One man's absurdity is another man's enjoyable pastime. I don't get why fat old
guys chase a white ball around a cow pasture every Saturday morning, but golf
was a $177 billion industry in 2011. I don't get "pasture pool" but plenty of
people love it. But if people enjoy it, so be it. Same with analysis of spar
strength, modulus of rupture, etc. just because you don't get it doesn't mean
others don't find it fascinating.
Why not just let 'em?
--------
Semper Fi,
Terry Hand
Athens, GA
USMC, USMCR, ATP
BVD DVD PDQ BBQ
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=427799#427799
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | A Pietenpol Cousin |
In an email conversation with Mike Cuy he suggested I circulate some
basic details of my Corben Ace as a cousin of the Piet.
It too saw the light of day in 1929 as a homebuilt plan.
I live in England, the home of a few great Pietenpols and it seems
natural to keep an eye on their life here and also the US fraternity and
beyond.
In fact I have the last Corben in Europe as far as I know. I crashed the
second to last in 2012! Oops! Total write off.
Mine is around 50+ years old and ex-Savannah, GA, an import. I
reassembled it and rebuilt as necessary after buying as a dismantled
unit.
I sent my very tired A65-8 to be professionally rebuilt and it turns a
vintage Flottorp 72" X 50" Prop. Again old but overhauled at Hercules
Props.
http://www.hercprops.com/
The Corben uses a Clark Y Airfoil full stop and a 26 foot span. It flies
beautifully.
I decided to go for shabby chic with polished aluminium and latex paint
rolled on the rest. Great fun but it does look odd to any observer
passing to see an aircraft being rolled with paint.
The finish is dull but in keeping.
A Thank you to Douwe, Oscar and others for sharing their Piet's. Gave me
lots of ideas.
If you visit UK give me a shout for a beer. I'm in the West Country in
Somerset.
Obligatory photo attached.
Regards
Gerry
Gerry Holland
gholland@content-stream.co.uk
+44 (0)7808 402404
White Ox Mead Airstrip, Bath. England
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: side note about smoke and smoke oil for Pietenpols |
| From: | Jack <jack(at)textors.com> |
Mike,
1 or 2 inches from the manifold end?
Sent from my iPad
Jack Textor
> On Aug 1, 2014, at 3:32 PM, "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-LME0)[Vantage Partners, L
LC]" wrote:
>
> Gary=94smoke is just a blast to have. With your electrical syste
m you could probably use a salvage yard or new replacement windshield
> washer pump/reservoir setup. I don=99t know if the washer pumps h
ave the kind of pressure you need but I don=99t see why it wouldn
=99t
> work as long as it could overcome the backpressure in the exhaust stack.
You only need to inject into one exhaust stack too. As long as
> you inject in that first 1-2=9D the oil with smoke really well.
>
> I believe Chuck Gantzer used a windshield washer pump for his baby oil smo
ke system and it worked well but the baby oil didn=99t have as white
> a look as the mineral oil.
>
> I use the regular air show smoke oil so it does well but isn=99t che
ap but thankfully some distributors sell it in 5 gallon buckets. Not sure
what the trade
> name for the stuff is now since I haven=99t purchased any in a while
but it used to be Texaco Canopus Oil #13, before that it was Corvis oil.
>
> Kyle Franklin posted this on his web page about the various smoke oils he a
sks for when making an air show appearance.
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | danhelsper(at)aol.com |
There are a couple of great things about Gene's posts. He
makes me laugh, and I find myself actually reading all the
thread posts so I don't miss out on the fun!=0A=0A=0ADan Hel
sper=0ALoensloe Airfield=0APuryear, TN=0A=0A=0A=0A-----Original Message---
--=0AFrom: jarheadpilot82 <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com>=0ATo: pietenpol-lis
t =0ASent: Fri, Aug 1, 2014 11:06 pm
=0ASubject: Pietenpol-List: Re: wing loads=0A=0A=0A--> Pietenpol-List
message posted by: "jarheadpilot82" =0A=0AGe
ne,=0A=0AGene,=0A=0AHumor is often tonal, so it is hard to get
it in the written word. Contrast the =0Alady at the store
check out saying to you, "have a nice day!" In a happy
tone =0Awith the guy saying "have a nice day" in a tone
that really says "@&$)!&@!$& =0Ayou!". Same 4 words, much diff
erent meanings. Same with humor. That is what =0Amakes humor
writers rich - their ability to communicate humor via the wr
itten =0Aword. Don't feel bad. Few of us have that gift.=0A=0A
One man's absurdity is another man's enjoyable pastime. I don'
t get why fat old =0Aguys chase a white ball around a co
w pasture every Saturday morning, but golf =0Awas a $177 bil
lion industry in 2011. I don't get "pasture pool" but plenty
of =0Apeople love it. But if people enjoy it, so be it.
Same with analysis of spar =0Astrength, modulus of rupture,
etc. just because you don't get it doesn't mean =0Aothers do
n't find it fascinating.=0A=0AWhy not just let 'em?=0A=0A--------=0A
Semper Fi,=0A=0ATerry Hand=0AAthens, GA=0A=0AUSMC, USMCR, ATP=0ABVD
DVD PDQ BBQ=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://f
===========================
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> |
Hey Mike and everyone else.
I am toying with the idea of flying Marci out to the big antique fly-in in
Blakesburg, but then I got invited to the labor day fly-in at Red Stewart
(Waynesville, ON) Here's the link, ck it out. I hear it's awesome. We can
fly in anytime they're not doing their airshow and camp out. They have gas
and it is a GREAT grass field.
I think we should get a gaggle of Piets to attend since there are a lot
within easy striking distance.
Mike D, why don't you fly up to my field in Fallmouth, KY and hangout with
us for a night. I'll show you the studio etc and then we fly up the next
day. The invite is open to anyone who wants to use our place as a stopover.
http://www.stewartsaircraft.net/airshow-2014.html
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | smoke system for lazy people... |
IF you're too lazy, or just don't need one more system to fabricate from
scratch, you can buy most of the smoke system from the Sonex guys. That's
what I did, but I was madly trying to finish and was happy to shell out some
bucks to save time.
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Douwe <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> |
Well, I can finally officially deduct a Piet trip from my taxes!
Had to deliver a statue to Louisville so I shoehorned (safely lashed down) i
t into the front seat and flew into beautiful miles field in shelbyville. S
tayed with some friends one of who's mom was an early aviatrix. She flew tra
vel airs and stuff in england and had this pic on the wall
Douwe
Sent from my iPhone
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Air delivery |
| From: | "gsnewsome" <newfaithkat(at)windstream.net> |
Nice
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=427828#427828
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Distance LE to front spar |
| From: | "echobravo4" <eab4(at)comcast.net> |
Hi John
I just checked my plans, and, as bill stated, the lower drawing has the dimensions
to be concerned about- follow that one
The upper drawing is there so you can plot the points to draw the airfoil if you
don't have the full-size drawing.
As far as the horizontal main beam- the 5/8" is right- anything that winds up
sticking above the surface will be sanded down flush later.
--------
Earl Brown
I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I
intended to be.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=427830#427830
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | ?Q?RE:_Pietenpol-List:_fly-ins? |
| From: | "=?utf-8?Q?aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com?=" <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com> |
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PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Air delivery |
| From: | "aerocarjake" <flight.jake(at)gmail.com> |
Both aspects of that are awesome...!
--------
Jake Schultz - curator,
Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=427838#427838
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Air delivery |
| From: | Ken Bickers <bickers.ken(at)gmail.com> |
Way cool!!
Pietenpol Air Truck and Delivery Service.
On Sat, Aug 2, 2014 at 8:27 AM, Douwe wrote:
> Well, I can finally officially deduct a Piet trip from my taxes!
>
>
> Had to deliver a statue to Louisville so I shoehorned (safely lashed down)
> it into the front seat and flew into beautiful miles field in shelbyville.
> Stayed with some friends one of who's mom was an early aviatrix. She flew
> travel airs and stuff in england and had this pic on the wall
>
> Douwe
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Brodhead Report |
| From: | "Braniff1966" <jnl96(at)yahoo.com> |
traffic patterns are a suggestion.. only a real idiot and self ceneterd ass would
not fly a pattern.. we have been flying the same rectangle pattern for at
least 80 years. it works, its safe but there is always some one that thinks they
are smarter.. i saw a fellow get his ass whipped big time in fromt of the gas
pump because he didnt fly the pattern. this guy flew a left hand pattern when
a right hand pattern is clearly published. he made the other guy make a go
around so when they met at the pump the big guy cleaned the ramp with the little
guys face. it was one of the highlights of my aviation 60 year career.. on
a personal note when i was a kid i hit a cessna 210 making a straight in approach
at gaineaville , tx muni airport. the guy was an ATP but he thought that
the rules and SOPs didnt apply to him.
hyde
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=427845#427845
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | piperj3cubflyer <piperj3cubflyer(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: which holds more oil? |
Thanks Mike for the smoker system idea!
Here a video of my son and myself and he did not know I installed the smoker
system!
Thanks
Jeff
N8031
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OqNkgQo2e5Q&sns=em
Sent from my iPhone
> On Jul 31, 2014, at 12:42 PM, Ben Charvet wrote:
>
> After watching your video, I definitely need smoke. About how long can yo
u smoke it on one pump up of the sprayer? Also is it in the archives how yo
u made the exhaust fitting, or can you just share that with us ? It looks l
ike it works very well, but if you have already done the research on orifice
size it could save me some time.
>
> Ben Charvet
> 220 hours on NX866BC
>
>> On 7/30/2014 11:12 AM, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-LME0)[Vantage Partners, LLC] w
rote:
>> Here are the handy little Lowe=99s or Home Depot garden department p
oly spray bottles that I use to pressurize my smoke oil (basically mineral o
il) to inject
>> into the right rear exhaust pipe of my A-65 engine. Every year I need t
o replace the bottle because the old bottles begin to leak as soon as you pu
mp them
>> up from exposure to the oil after a while.
>>
>> Last night I installed the new poly bottle and was bummed because it held
less fluidor so I thought.
>>
>> Which one do you think holds more fluid? I was surprised to read that t
he container on the right holds 56 oz. and the old bottle on the left holds 5
1 oz.
>> I still don=99t believe it and am going to do a little test next ti
me I empty out the new smoke oil bottle! (which won=99t take long i
f this gorgeous weather keeps up.)
>
>
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> |
Smoke 'em if you got 'em!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Distance LE to front spar |
| From: | "Pocono John" <tinmotion(at)yahoo.com> |
Thank you gentlemen. I understand now.
--------
John
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=427849#427849
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | A Pietenpol Cousin |
Very nice, Gerry! A friend owns two.quick (compared to the Piet!) and sturdy
little planes.
Gary Boothe
NX308MB
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gerry
Holland
Sent: Friday, August 01, 2014 10:22 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: A Pietenpol Cousin
In an email conversation with Mike Cuy he suggested I circulate some basic
details of my Corben Ace as a cousin of the Piet.
It too saw the light of day in 1929 as a homebuilt plan.
I live in England, the home of a few great Pietenpols and it seems natural
to keep an eye on their life here and also the US fraternity and beyond.
In fact I have the last Corben in Europe as far as I know. I crashed the
second to last in 2012! Oops! Total write off.
Mine is around 50+ years old and ex-Savannah, GA, an import. I reassembled
it and rebuilt as necessary after buying as a dismantled unit.
I sent my very tired A65-8 to be professionally rebuilt and it turns a
vintage Flottorp 72" X 50" Prop. Again old but overhauled at Hercules Props.
http://www.hercprops.com/
The Corben uses a Clark Y Airfoil full stop and a 26 foot span. It flies
beautifully.
I decided to go for shabby chic with polished aluminium and latex paint
rolled on the rest. Great fun but it does look odd to any observer passing
to see an aircraft being rolled with paint.
The finish is dull but in keeping.
A Thank you to Douwe, Oscar and others for sharing their Piet's. Gave me
lots of ideas.
If you visit UK give me a shout for a beer. I'm in the West Country in
Somerset.
Obligatory photo attached.
Regards
Gerry
Gerry Holland
gholland@content-stream.co.uk
+44 (0)7808 402404
White Ox Mead Airstrip, Bath. England
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com> |
Let me check it out! Sounds good!
Tools
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=427850#427850
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com> |
Need dates and such. Quite possible would be flying DOWN to your field and then
in.
Sounds like fun and I'd LOVE to see the studio!
Tools
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=427851#427851
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: A Pietenpol Cousin |
| From: | Marcus Zechini <marcus.zechini(at)gmail.com> |
Years ago, after getting tailwheel endorsement, flying a 1952 C-170B out of
Dulles, yes Washington Dulles International, a friend offered a flight in
his Corben Baby Ace. Since a single-place, I was hesitant. Also, l thought,
why would anyone want that. You can't really travel in it. I flew it, and
immediately understood. That flight a part of the reason I have a Pietenpol
now.
On Aug 2, 2014 1:30 AM, "Gerry Holland" <gholland@content-stream.co.uk>
wrote:
> In an email conversation with Mike Cuy he suggested I circulate some basic
> details of my Corben Ace as a cousin of the Piet.
> It too saw the light of day in 1929 as a homebuilt plan.
> I live in England, the home of a few great Pietenpols and it seems natural
> to keep an eye on their life here and also the US fraternity and beyond.
> In fact I have the last Corben in Europe as far as I know. I crashed the
> second to last in 2012! Oops! Total write off.
> Mine is around 50+ years old and ex-Savannah, GA, an import. I reassembled
> it and rebuilt as necessary after buying as a dismantled unit.
> I sent my very tired A65-8 to be professionally rebuilt and it turns a
> vintage Flottorp 72" X 50" Prop. Again old but overhauled at Hercules Props.
> http://www.hercprops.com/
> The Corben uses a Clark Y Airfoil full stop and a 26 foot span. It flies
> beautifully.
> I decided to go for shabby chic with polished aluminium and latex paint
> rolled on the rest. Great fun but it does look odd to any observer passing
> to see an aircraft being rolled with paint.
> The finish is dull but in keeping.
> A Thank you to Douwe, Oscar and others for sharing their Piet's. Gave me
> lots of ideas.
> If you visit UK give me a shout for a beer. I'm in the West Country in
> Somerset.
> Obligatory photo attached.
> Regards
> Gerry
>
> *Gerry Holland*
>
> *gholland@content-stream.co.uk +44 (0)7808
> 402404 <%2B44%20%280%297808%20402404>*
>
>
> *White Ox Mead Airstrip, Bath. England*
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | piperj3cubflyer <piperj3cubflyer(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: cool dusk shot |
Sent from my iPhone
> On Aug 2, 2014, at 7:18 PM, "Douwe Blumberg"
wrote:
>
> Smoke 'em if you got 'em!!
>