Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-oa
February 03, 2015 - February 24, 2015
| Subject: | Re: Sun-N-Fun 2015 |
| From: | Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com> |
Dick, are the Muk Tuks amphib or float? What will your empty weight go to?
You know you get more weight allowance for LSA! 1,430 lbs for seaplanes!
Be careful about exceeing VNE! 1930s air speed record setters were mostly
float planes. While the floats were heavier they are much more
aerodynamic. High HP engines and tiny fast wings liked having really long
takeoff runs on water at a time when there were few long runways.
I can hardly wait to see your duck fly.
Blue Skies,
Steve D
On Mon, Feb 2, 2015 at 10:08 PM, Dick N wrote:
> Steve
> I am building the Muk Tuk floats. They are current technology. I looked
> at the Flying Glider manual and thought about it for a couple of seconds,
> but that was that.
> Dick N.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Steven Dortch
> *To:* pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> *Sent:* Monday, February 02, 2015 2:20 PM
> *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Sun-N-Fun 2015
>
> One of the flying and Glider manuals has floats in it!.
>
> Blue Skies,
> Steve D
>
> On Sun, Feb 1, 2015 at 11:35 PM, taildrags wrote:
>
>>
>> Dick;
>>
>> Not sure if you mean that you have not fitted water rudders yet, or that
>> you have some but they're not working out. In any case, note that there
>> are some pretty good ones out there that the ocean kayaks use.
>> Lightweight, strong, and retractable. Most ocean kayak rudders have quite
>> a small area since they aren't designed for sharp, tight turns- but it's
>> easy to add a larger blade to the stock rudder using some stainless
>> hardware.
>>
>> Thanks for taking on the project in the first place. I've heard people
>> ask about floats in the past, but you're the first that I know of who has
>> actually undertaken the task.
>>
>> --------
>> Oscar Zuniga
>> Medford, OR
>> Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
>> A75 power
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=437949#437949
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ==========
>> br> enpol-List" target="_blank">
>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>> ==========
>> FORUMS -
>> _blank">http://forums.matronics.com
>> ==========
>> b Site -
>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> ==========
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Blue Skies,
> Steve D
>
> *
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List ">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com ">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution ">http://www.matronics.com/c
> *
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
--
Blue Skies,
Steve D
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Philips" <jack(at)bedfordlandings.com> |
| Subject: | Propping planes, WARNING |
Thanks for posting, Scott.
Sounds like he might have just wired the switch incorrectly. Hopefully the
new switch will have a wiring diagram with it so he can wire it properly.
I'm always amazed by the number of PILOTS who will walk up to my plane in
the hangar and wiggle the prop. I always fuss at them, telling them they
sure trust me to have the mags wired correctly and the p-leads intact.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
AircamperN11MS
Sent: Tuesday, February 3, 2015 10:06 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Propping planes, WARNING
-->
Hello Fellow Pieters,
I wanted to share an experience I had yesterday. Just a reminder to all who
touch propellers whether they are propping the plane or not.
A friend of mine who flys a Thorp T 18 was in the area and his plane was
parked at my airport over the whole weekend. He does this a lot. Anyway,
The battery was low due to the cold outside air temperatures all weekend.
He managed to flood the engine while trying to start it. The engine was
turning very slowly. So I asked if he would like me to pull it through
several blades to clear the flooding before he tried to start it again. He
said sure, please do. Oh yea, It has a metal prop hanging on an 0-360,
180HP and the nose of the plane is very low to the ground. Nough of that,
OK, Switch off, throttle closed, mixture lean, master off, and a push on the
plane to see if the brakes are holding. All was confirmed by the pilot.
When I pulled through the 5th blade the engine started and ran for about 10
seconds then ran out of gas. It sure surprised the pilot. In fact, it
scared him. It didn't scare me. I have had this happen to me more than one
other time. I always assume that the engine will start anytime I put my
hands on a blade. It can folks.
I managed to talk the pilot into pushing the plane to my hangar so we can
charge the battery and try to figure out why a mag was hot. Long story
short. His mag switch was bad, (very bad). When the switch was in the both
position, both mags were hot (good). When the switch was On the left mag,
both mags were hot (not good). When the switch was on the right mag, the
right mag was hot and the left mag was off (good). When the switch was in
the off position, the right mag was still hot and the left mag was off (Very
bad). This was why the plane started.
Conclusion,
I gave him a tip that I use before shut down. I will momentarily switch the
mags to the off position to verify that the engine quits, then turn it back
to the both position so the engine keeps running. Then I will shut down
with the mixture control. If you have a problem with the mags not shutting
off, this will tell you and you can get it fixed before someone gets hurt.
We put the cowl back on and he flew home. He said he will be ordering a new
switch from Spruce as soon as he got home.
Be careful and prepared around all props everyone.
Cheers,
--------
Scott Liefeld
Flying N11MS since March 1972
Steel Tube
C-85-12
Wire Wheels
Brodhead in 1996
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=438007#438007
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Propping planes, WARNING |
| From: | Marcus Zechini <marcus.zechini(at)gmail.com> |
My mag switch is an old A7 (from a T-6, maybe). Just before last annual, it
was not grounding mags when I tried to stop the engine. Yes, it can happen,
easy. I always consider them hot.
On Feb 3, 2015 10:45 AM, "Jack Philips" wrote:
> jack(at)bedfordlandings.com>
>
> Thanks for posting, Scott.
>
> Sounds like he might have just wired the switch incorrectly. Hopefully the
> new switch will have a wiring diagram with it so he can wire it properly.
>
> I'm always amazed by the number of PILOTS who will walk up to my plane in
> the hangar and wiggle the prop. I always fuss at them, telling them they
> sure trust me to have the mags wired correctly and the p-leads intact.
>
> Jack Phillips
> NX899JP
> Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> AircamperN11MS
> Sent: Tuesday, February 3, 2015 10:06 AM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Propping planes, WARNING
>
> -->
>
> Hello Fellow Pieters,
>
> I wanted to share an experience I had yesterday. Just a reminder to all
> who
> touch propellers whether they are propping the plane or not.
>
> A friend of mine who flys a Thorp T 18 was in the area and his plane was
> parked at my airport over the whole weekend. He does this a lot. Anyway,
> The battery was low due to the cold outside air temperatures all weekend.
> He managed to flood the engine while trying to start it. The engine was
> turning very slowly. So I asked if he would like me to pull it through
> several blades to clear the flooding before he tried to start it again. He
> said sure, please do. Oh yea, It has a metal prop hanging on an 0-360,
> 180HP and the nose of the plane is very low to the ground. Nough of that,
> OK, Switch off, throttle closed, mixture lean, master off, and a push on
> the
> plane to see if the brakes are holding. All was confirmed by the pilot.
>
> When I pulled through the 5th blade the engine started and ran for about 10
> seconds then ran out of gas. It sure surprised the pilot. In fact, it
> scared him. It didn't scare me. I have had this happen to me more than
> one
> other time. I always assume that the engine will start anytime I put my
> hands on a blade. It can folks.
>
> I managed to talk the pilot into pushing the plane to my hangar so we can
> charge the battery and try to figure out why a mag was hot. Long story
> short. His mag switch was bad, (very bad). When the switch was in the
> both
> position, both mags were hot (good). When the switch was On the left mag,
> both mags were hot (not good). When the switch was on the right mag, the
> right mag was hot and the left mag was off (good). When the switch was in
> the off position, the right mag was still hot and the left mag was off
> (Very
> bad). This was why the plane started.
>
> Conclusion,
> I gave him a tip that I use before shut down. I will momentarily switch
> the
> mags to the off position to verify that the engine quits, then turn it back
> to the both position so the engine keeps running. Then I will shut down
> with the mixture control. If you have a problem with the mags not shutting
> off, this will tell you and you can get it fixed before someone gets hurt.
> We put the cowl back on and he flew home. He said he will be ordering a
> new
> switch from Spruce as soon as he got home.
>
> Be careful and prepared around all props everyone.
>
> Cheers,
>
> --------
> Scott Liefeld
> Flying N11MS since March 1972
> Steel Tube
> C-85-12
> Wire Wheels
> Brodhead in 1996
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=438007#438007
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Propping planes, WARNING |
| From: | "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org> |
Jack,
The mags were wired correctly. The plane and the switch are 35 years old. In
fact, the switch would not even return from the start position on its own. You
have to return it to the both position.
It was just flat worn out.
--------
Scott Liefeld
Flying N11MS since March 1972
Steel Tube
C-85-12
Wire Wheels
Brodhead in 1996
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=438011#438011
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Propping planes, WARNING |
| From: | Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com> |
Scott, when I started reading your email my heart rate increased. I am sure
glad you were smart and diligent.
I have been around two accidents involving touching a prop. None life or
limb threatening, both caused significant damage.
1. Old Fellow was loading his Tripacer and somehow bumped the mag switch
to on and pushed the throttle in. He then went around front to turn the
prop to "Prime the Oil pump." When he turned the prop, it started! and went
to High RPM. He dove out of the way, and the Tripacer started taxing and he
grabbed a strut. The plane turned and hit a Cessna 182 with 3 people in it.
The wing looked like JAWS had taken a bite out of it and, praise God, The
prop stopped when it hit the cockpit.. Turns out the 182 pilot had been
trained by the Tripacer pilot. Tripacer pilot was one of the very respected
pilots in the area.
2. Several years later, different aiport but the same respected pilot now
has a minicoupe (single seat, metal, low wing, VW engine). He walks around
front to turn the prop to prime the engine. When he touches the prop, IT
FIRES and goes to full throttle. He dives out of the way, the plane
accellerates down the runway but about 20 degrees off runway heading. It
lifts off but does not clear the barbed wire (BOB war in West Texas)
and crashes on the railroad tracks. We all ran over and drug the plane
off the tracks. He quit flying. Too bad he was a great guy and really a
good pilot in other ways.
Rules about hand propping:
I learned from the Fort Eustis and Langely AFB flying clubs:
All Club members MUST take the handprop class before handpropping
anything. A 15 min class on the Piper cub.
Treat all props as HOT, All the time. Touch them in such a way that you are
out of the way WHEN it fires.
Don't handprop a plane that has a starter. Get it fixed!
Make sure the mags are off if you are just turning the prop. Touch it like
it is a rattlesnake and will bite you.
Just wrap the tips of your fingers around the blade. Don't grip it.
Don't wear loose floppy clothes that can catch in the prop. Nothing in your
shirt pocket that might fall out. It is best to take your hat, and
sunglasses off and put them in the plane.
Tf someone is in the plane, and they say the plane is "COLD" then both
hands should be visible before you touch the prop. Still treat the prop
like it is HOT!
Only a pilot should touch the controls, NEVER a non pilot. Beware leaving a
nonpilot in the plane while you prop.They WILL touch something you don't
want them to.
Chock and tie the plane down.
When you start handpropping, all motions should move your body away from
the prop. You should be backing away from the prop when it spins.
These are not in order, but I always consider them.
Blue Skies,
Steve D
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-LME0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | hot ignition system, propping |
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DQoNCg0K
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Propping planes, WARNING |
| From: | "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org> |
Steve,
When I was a kid I saw a guy loose his arm while propping a small homebuilt. I
guess the image has stuck with me. All your points should be taken seriously
by all pilots. If you are not properly trained, then stay away from the big
nasty man eating propeller.
Rattlesnake? Yes.
I just wanted to share the story. I didn't mean to raise your heart rate but maybe
that's a good thing. I wanted to just remind folks that what we do can bite
you if you are not prepared.
--------
Scott Liefeld
Flying N11MS since March 1972
Steel Tube
C-85-12
Wire Wheels
Brodhead in 1996
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=438015#438015
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kip Gmail <kipgohio1957(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Propping planes, WARNING |
I treat props the way I treat chain saws - they should always be
treated as dangerous as soon as someone puts their hands on them.
Kip Gardner
On Feb 3, 2015, at 11:35 AM, AircamperN11MS wrote:
> >
>
> Steve,
>
> When I was a kid I saw a guy loose his arm while propping a small
> homebuilt. I guess the image has stuck with me. All your points
> should be taken seriously by all pilots. If you are not properly
> trained, then stay away from the big nasty man eating propeller.
>
> Rattlesnake? Yes.
>
> I just wanted to share the story. I didn't mean to raise your heart
> rate but maybe that's a good thing. I wanted to just remind folks
> that what we do can bite you if you are not prepared.
>
> --------
> Scott Liefeld
> Flying N11MS since March 1972
> Steel Tube
> C-85-12
> Wire Wheels
> Brodhead in 1996
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=438015#438015
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Propping planes, WARNING |
| From: | "tkreiner" <tkreiner(at)gmail.com> |
First lesson I learned when my Dad took me to airport for my first flight - maybe
I was around 6 or 7.
As we approached the plane, my Dad said, "Never touch a prop."
When I asked him why, the answer was, "The engine might start, and you can get
hurt bad or killed."
I've told exactly this to my own children, and to non-pilots when I take them to
the field.
We should all do the same...
Thanks for the reminder!
--------
Tom Kreiner
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=438017#438017
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: hot ignition system, propping |
| From: | "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org> |
Thanks Mike,
Funny thing, When doing the mag check there was no drop on the left and 150 drop
on the right. One would think that the left mag was in really great shape
with no drop. But to my surprise the right mag was still running in the left position.
Hence, no mag drop.
I always seem to learn something when at the airport.
--------
Scott Liefeld
Flying N11MS since March 1972
Steel Tube
C-85-12
Wire Wheels
Brodhead in 1996
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=438018#438018
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dick N" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Sun-N-Fun 2015 |
They are simple Floats, no idea about empty weight. When it's all done
I will bring it to SNF on Fuse. with wings. Thanks for the info, I did
know about the weight thing.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: Steven Dortch
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2015 9:30 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Sun-N-Fun 2015
Dick, are the Muk Tuks amphib or float? What will your empty weight go
to? You know you get more weight allowance for LSA! 1,430 lbs for
seaplanes!
Be careful about exceeing VNE! 1930s air speed record setters were
mostly float planes. While the floats were heavier they are much more
aerodynamic. High HP engines and tiny fast wings liked having really
long takeoff runs on water at a time when there were few long runways.
I can hardly wait to see your duck fly.
Blue Skies,
Steve D
On Mon, Feb 2, 2015 at 10:08 PM, Dick N
wrote:
Steve
I am building the Muk Tuk floats. They are current technology. I
looked at the Flying Glider manual and thought about it for a couple of
seconds, but that was that.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: Steven Dortch
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, February 02, 2015 2:20 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Sun-N-Fun 2015
One of the flying and Glider manuals has floats in it!.
Blue Skies,
Steve D
On Sun, Feb 1, 2015 at 11:35 PM, taildrags
wrote:
Dick;
Not sure if you mean that you have not fitted water rudders yet,
or that you have some but they're not working out. In any case, note
that there are some pretty good ones out there that the ocean kayaks
use. Lightweight, strong, and retractable. Most ocean kayak rudders
have quite a small area since they aren't designed for sharp, tight
turns- but it's easy to add a larger blade to the stock rudder using
some stainless hardware.
Thanks for taking on the project in the first place. I've heard
people ask about floats in the past, but you're the first that I know of
who has actually undertaken the task.
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=437949#437949
==========
br> enpol-List"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
==========
FORUMS -
_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
==========
b Site -
-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
==========
--
Blue Skies,
Steve D
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
--
Blue Skies,
Steve D
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Propping planes, WARNING |
| From: | Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com> |
My kids hear the same thing.
Also as a Skydiver we never let anyone go in front of the Wing. When I
take people out to a plane, I tell them they will be safe if they don't go
in front of the wing. Oh and never touch the prop.
One additonal thing. The idea of taking your hat off. People have their
hats blow off and go into the prop. Instinctively they reach for it! Not a
good idea.
Blue Skies,
Steve D
On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 10:58 AM, tkreiner wrote:
>
> First lesson I learned when my Dad took me to airport for my first flight
> - maybe I was around 6 or 7.
>
> As we approached the plane, my Dad said, "Never touch a prop."
>
> When I asked him why, the answer was, "The engine might start, and you can
> get hurt bad or killed."
>
> I've told exactly this to my own children, and to non-pilots when I take
> them to the field.
>
> We should all do the same...
>
> Thanks for the reminder!
>
> --------
> Tom Kreiner
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=438017#438017
>
>
--
Blue Skies,
Steve D
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Cold Weather Piet |
| From: | "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca> |
Ever wondered what a Pietenpol might look like with an enclosed canopy?
There's one listed on Kijiji for sale in Nova Scotia:
http://www.kijiji.ca/v-cars-other/city-of-halifax/aircraft/1045355367?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=438025#438025
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/piet_canopy_985.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Cold Weather Piet |
They need bigger rudders in Nova Scotia.
Gary Boothe
NX308MB
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Church
Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2015 1:01 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Cold Weather Piet
-->
Ever wondered what a Pietenpol might look like with an enclosed canopy?
There's one listed on Kijiji for sale in Nova Scotia:
http://www.kijiji.ca/v-cars-other/city-of-halifax/aircraft/1045355367?enable
SearchNavigationFlag=true
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=438025#438025
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/piet_canopy_985.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert Gow <rgow(at)avionicsdesign.ca> |
| Subject: | Cold Weather Piet |
I always wondered how a cabin version of the piet would look. Like a
Robin perhaps.
Robert Gow,
President and DAO Manager.
Avionics Design Services Ltd.
Phn 705-527-6095
Cell 416-434-3393
Fax 705-527-6028
www.avionicsdesign.ca <http://www.avionicsdesign.ca/>
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary
Boothe
Sent: February 3, 2015 4:33 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Cold Weather Piet
-->
They need bigger rudders in Nova Scotia.
Gary Boothe
NX308MB
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill
Church
Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2015 1:01 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Cold Weather Piet
-->
Ever wondered what a Pietenpol might look like with an enclosed canopy?
There's one listed on Kijiji for sale in Nova Scotia:
http://www.kijiji.ca/v-cars-other/city-of-halifax/aircraft/1045355367?enab
le
SearchNavigationFlag=true
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=438025#438025
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/piet_canopy_985.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Cold Weather Piet |
| From: | "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org> |
Yep, looks like a big rudder Gary. I think it could be classified as a flipper
cause it is apparently cold and wet up there. How do you get into the thing.
I don't see any slides on the rear canopy, and the front??? Maybe you remove
it then put it back on after you get the victim loaded. I mean passenger.
Any guesses anyone????????????
--------
Scott Liefeld
Flying N11MS since March 1972
Steel Tube
C-85-12
Wire Wheels
Brodhead in 1996
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=438029#438029
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Cold Weather Piet |
| From: | "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com> |
I always thought enclosing open cockpit airplanes was just plane dumb... until
I got an open cockpit airplane! Still probably not for me, but I get it now.
My guess is they flip to the side. The front one couldn't slide anyway. Given
the curvature, and where the pivot would be, don't think it would get taller
as it flips over, so should work up under the wing even though there isn't much
clearance. Would be easy to remove for nice weather as well.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=438030#438030
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Propping planes, WARNING |
| From: | "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com> |
So there I was....
Just a few weeks ago, haven't been up in the Piet in a couple months. It was cold,
so wasn't planning on going flying, thought I'd start it up, warm up the
oil, etc.
Not in a hurry, no onlookers distracting me. Just wanted to blow out some cobwebs,
which I could do right in the hangar, where it was (thankfully...) tied down
three points.
Check throttle back, carb heat off, switches off. Pull it through ten or so times,
give it time to gas off in the cylinders. Go back around, throttle back,
carb heat off, switches on.
Clothing correct, nothing sitting around in the way... I really feel relaxed and
on my game. First pull almost starts, but seems to flood itself instead. Half
a dozen pulls later, decide to clear it out.
I've always figured this was the most dangerous of things to do hand propping,
so really going slow now... Throttle open full, carb heat off, switches off.
Still careful to assume it could start, pull it though a dozen times backwards.
Back to the cockpit, carb heat off, switches on. Pull it through, surprised it
didn't start... took a deep breath, went back to the cockpit and pulled the throttle
back...! D'oh!
Tied down, still, REALLY happy it didn't start up on me.
Man, NOTHING was distracting me. Not in a hurry at all, wasn't even going flying.
Still missed it.
When it's out of the hangar, I always tie off one wheel when I start it, and try
to park in a depression, up against concrete, push it off concrete if I can,
etc. From now on, tieing off both wheels.
There's just nothing about flying these things you can take for granted. Not a
single little thing.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=438032#438032
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-LME0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | flooded starts---, WARNING |
Mike Danforth's post (Tools) below was an EXCELLENT reminder of how scary
this stuff can be, even when we are not distracted
as he describes below! This is a really good post---thank you for sharing
this and if it hasn't happened to us, it just might even when you
least expect it.
What Mike describes below happens to the little Continentals from time to t
ime and his procedure for clearing out the carb is exactly what I
was taught and it works but it is really the time (especially when alone) w
hen you want the plane tied down, for sure.
I end up tying the tail of my plane to the tow hitch on my Ford Explorer wh
en I have to do this clearing procedure or find a tie-down ring on the
ramp and even then I'm operating in a 'holy moly' mindset.
So glad this story turned out well and thank you for sharing it.
Mike C.
Ohio
PS-let me tell you about the first year I went to Oshkosh with my plane.
I had it ALL packed, ready to go. Full fuel, full oil, charts ready,
everything was perfect including the weather. I start the airplane, taxi
out and stop to do all my pretakeoff checks. I advance the throttle,
check left mag, check right mag......1800 rpm....carb heat on and the engin
e STOPS cold. Mr. Oshkosh-bound forgot to turn on the fuel.
Thank God I didn't just throttle up and go because I would have had the eng
ine STOP on climb out over the trees and wires!
@yahoo.com>>
So there I was....
Just a few weeks ago, haven't been up in the Piet in a couple months. It w
as cold, so wasn't planning on going flying, thought I'd start it up, warm
up the oil, etc.
Not in a hurry, no onlookers distracting me. Just wanted to blow out some
cobwebs, which I could do right in the hangar, where it was (thankfully...)
tied down three points.
Check throttle back, carb heat off, switches off. Pull it through ten or s
o times, give it time to gas off in the cylinders. Go back around, throttl
e back, carb heat off, switches on.
Clothing correct, nothing sitting around in the way... I really feel relaxe
d and on my game. First pull almost starts, but seems to flood itself inst
ead. Half a dozen pulls later, decide to clear it out.
I've always figured this was the most dangerous of things to do hand proppi
ng, so really going slow now... Throttle open full, carb heat off, switches
off. Still careful to assume it could start, pull it though a dozen times
backwards.
Back to the cockpit, carb heat off, switches on. Pull it through, surprise
d it didn't start... took a deep breath, went back to the cockpit and pulle
d the throttle back...! D'oh!
Tied down, still, REALLY happy it didn't start up on me.
Man, NOTHING was distracting me. Not in a hurry at all, wasn't even going
flying. Still missed it.
When it's out of the hangar, I always tie off one wheel when I start it, an
d try to park in a depression, up against concrete, push it off concrete if
I can, etc. From now on, tieing off both wheels.
There's just nothing about flying these things you can take for granted. N
ot a single little thing.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=438032#438032
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dick N" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Propping planes, WARNING |
Hey Tools,
All that stuff you checked but you didnt say anything about washing the
wings down, just a thought.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2015 4:52 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Propping planes, WARNING
>
> So there I was....
>
> Just a few weeks ago, haven't been up in the Piet in a couple months. It
> was cold, so wasn't planning on going flying, thought I'd start it up,
> warm up the oil, etc.
>
> Not in a hurry, no onlookers distracting me. Just wanted to blow out some
> cobwebs, which I could do right in the hangar, where it was
> (thankfully...) tied down three points.
>
> Check throttle back, carb heat off, switches off. Pull it through ten or
> so times, give it time to gas off in the cylinders. Go back around,
> throttle back, carb heat off, switches on.
>
> Clothing correct, nothing sitting around in the way... I really feel
> relaxed and on my game. First pull almost starts, but seems to flood
> itself instead. Half a dozen pulls later, decide to clear it out.
>
> I've always figured this was the most dangerous of things to do hand
> propping, so really going slow now... Throttle open full, carb heat off,
> switches off. Still careful to assume it could start, pull it though a
> dozen times backwards.
>
> Back to the cockpit, carb heat off, switches on. Pull it through,
> surprised it didn't start... took a deep breath, went back to the cockpit
> and pulled the throttle back...! D'oh!
>
> Tied down, still, REALLY happy it didn't start up on me.
>
> Man, NOTHING was distracting me. Not in a hurry at all, wasn't even going
> flying. Still missed it.
>
> When it's out of the hangar, I always tie off one wheel when I start it,
> and try to park in a depression, up against concrete, push it off concrete
> if I can, etc. From now on, tieing off both wheels.
>
> There's just nothing about flying these things you can take for granted.
> Not a single little thing.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=438032#438032
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Letkeman <pilot(at)fehrs.com> |
| Subject: | Re: New Pietenpol Aircamper owner |
Thanks Steve, I will keep you posted of any flights to your area.
John
Sent from my iPad
On Feb 3, 2015, at 7:45 AM, Steven Dortch > wrote:
John, No need for a rental car. I live about 10 min from both San Antonio I
nternational and Stinson (the GA reliever, and second oldest General Aviati
on airport in the US, est 1915) From either of these it is 40 min to San Ge
ronimo where my plane is.
I will haul you around, I just mentioned it for planning purposes. I work u
ntil about 3PM most weekdays.
Give me some forwarning and I will let you see my project.
PS I have heard that "Der Faker Fokker" a highly modified Piet is at the Ai
r museum at Stinson.
On Mon, Feb 2, 2015 at 10:31 PM, John Letkeman > wrote:
Thanks Steve! I may take you up on that, I could just jump in a rental car,
do you have any pictures of your Piet on this forum?
John
Sent from my iPad
On Feb 1, 2015, at 9:09 AM, Steven Dortch > wrote:
Yes, I am smack dab in the middle. I live on Fort Sam Houston.
with some warning I could haul you out to look over my project. Note it tak
es 40 min to get there from almost any airport.
Steve D
On Sun, Feb 1, 2015 at 8:56 AM, John Letkeman @fehrs.com>> wrote:
90% done 50% to go! So true! I have spent a lot of time measuring parts and
looking at the plans already!
Are you in the San Antonio area? I fly my boss there occasionally.
John
Sent from my iPad
On Jan 31, 2015, at 10:10 PM, Steven Dortch > wrote:
John, It looks 90% complete. That means there is only 50% to go!
Seriously, Don't be surprised if you spend some time figuring out why or ho
w the last builder did something. I spend a lot of time doing just that.
If you can't find a local Pietenpol or even (Heaven forbid) Grega, look aro
und for someone who has built a Bowers Flybaby. While very different in man
y ways (low wing, single seat), there are a lot of building similarities (W
ood frame, cloth, A65)
One of my problem solving mentors built a fly baby. He is full of informati
on. He also gets me to simplify my sometimes overly complex thoughts. IE, "
Rather than custom machining a mount, why don't you just burn a hole in the
fabric and turn the bolt around!" "Use one long screw instead of two short
ones." He really wants me to get my plane flying because, "no one else fl
ies as slow as I do."
Oscar also helped me by getting me to write down everything I thought I wan
ted to do. Then he had me do a shorter list of everything that had to be do
ne to fly safely. Work off of that list first, then later you can add bells
and whistles (or guns and bombs and smoke, and horns that play songs)
Blue Skies,
Steve D
On Sat, Jan 31, 2015 at 3:40 PM, John Letkeman > wrote:
:pilot(at)fehrs.com>>
Oscar,
Although I've been flying for 15 years, I'm pretty new to experimental airc
raft,
I've been interested in the Pietenpol for as long as I've been flying, I ne
ed too research the FAR's
And find out what the steps are too getting N-# and airworthiness certifica
te, I'm ok with not getting repairman certificate, is Raymond Hanover on th
is forum? I would like too visit with him,
He's only about a two hour flight in the C170.
Thanks
John
Sent from my iPad
> On Jan 30, 2015, at 6:38 AM, taildrags > wrote:
>
mailto:taildrags(at)hotmail.com>>
>
> John; there's nothing wrong with you being the builder... the FARs just s
ay that the airplane has be be amateur-built but it doesn't say you have to
be the only builder. My Piet and most others have been through several ha
nds before being completed by the second, third, or more builders. What yo
u're probably saying is that you probably will not qualify to get the repai
rman's certificate for it. That would permit you to do your own condition
inspections on it, and for that you have to convince your DAR that you've d
one enough of the work on it that you're so familiar with it that you can i
nspect it. With the wings and fuselage covered and painted, I don't think
you have much hope of getting that cert.
>
> You do have a nearby neighbor (nearby, if measured by Texas standards)- R
aymond Hanover is up in Skellytown and is in test flights with his Corvair-
powered GN-1.
>
> --------
> Oscar Zuniga
> Medford, OR
> Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
> A75 power
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=437857#437857
>
>
br> enpol-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pieten
pol-List
FORUMS -
_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
b Site -
-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
--
Blue Skies,
Steve D
">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
ics.com<http://ics.com>
.matronics.com/contribution<http://matronics.com/contribution>
" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
tp://forums.matronics.com<http://forums.matronics.com>
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
--
Blue Skies,
Steve D
">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
ics.com<http://ics.com>
.matronics.com/contribution<http://matronics.com/contribution>
" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
--
Blue Skies,
Steve D
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: flooded starts---, WARNING |
| From: | "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com> |
Hehe, uh, ya, it was my pleasure to reveal my... you get the idea!
We actually had a formal name for this sort of thing in Navy safety training called
true confessions. We set aside about a half hour every safety stand down
and folks just fessed up. No harm, no foul... was VERY beneficial.
Which reminds me... so there I ALMOST was...
I don't turn off the fuel shutoffs in my plane. I can't remember exactly how it
happened, but after a ride, maybe letting someone else fly, something, I caught
someone ELSE turning off the shutoff.
I'm not sure how many times I've flown without REALLY checking those things. There
but by the grace of God go I...
At work, I don't hit the head without reading a check list out loud. Hey, this
Piet doesn't have flaps, mixture, prop, gear... why would I need a checklist...
geesh...
I, too, LOVE these discussions. ESPECIALLY when it's just a close call. Nonetheless,
talking about ANY learning experience helps the collective consciousness.
Tools
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=438036#438036
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Propping planes, WARNING |
| From: | "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com> |
We did! BUT, there's always a but, the birds are still there. Need to get that
danged hangar finished up and the birds out.
She's flying great though. Need to stop by on the way south to SnF and say hi
to her... pretty sure she misses you!
Tools
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=438037#438037
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Cold Weather Piet |
| From: | Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com> |
My guess is a hinge on the side. A buddy's Flybaby has a canopy like this.
He uses it for the extreme cold weather here in South Texas.
Blue Skies,
Steve D
On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 4:18 PM, AircamperN11MS
wrote:
> Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org>
>
> Yep, looks like a big rudder Gary. I think it could be classified as a
> flipper cause it is apparently cold and wet up there. How do you get into
> the thing. I don't see any slides on the rear canopy, and the front???
> Maybe you remove it then put it back on after you get the victim loaded. I
> mean passenger.
>
> Any guesses anyone????????????
>
> --------
> Scott Liefeld
> Flying N11MS since March 1972
> Steel Tube
> C-85-12
> Wire Wheels
> Brodhead in 1996
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=438029#438029
>
>
--
Blue Skies,
Steve D
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ray Krause <raykrause(at)frontiernet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Cold Weather Piet |
A long ferry flight to CA!
Ray Krause
Sent from my iPad
> On Feb 3, 2015, at 1:00 PM, Bill Church wrote:
>
>
> Ever wondered what a Pietenpol might look like with an enclosed canopy?
> There's one listed on Kijiji for sale in Nova Scotia:
> http://www.kijiji.ca/v-cars-other/city-of-halifax/aircraft/1045355367?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=438025#438025
>
>
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/piet_canopy_985.jpg
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Knowlton <flyingscott_k(at)hotmail.com> |
I didn't know how I was going to finish the aft end of the turtledeck where i
t abuts the horizontal stab. 3 bucks worth of balsa, a little fun sanding a
nd shaping and a piece of 1/16 ply did the trick. A nice shop morning befor
e heading off to work.
The bolt secures my hard point for the shoulder harnesses.
Scott Knowlton.
Burlington ON.
Sent from my iPhone
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Philips" <jack(at)bedfordlandings.com> |
Nice job, Scott!
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott
Knowlton
Sent: Wednesday, February 4, 2015 10:20 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Turtledeck
I didn't know how I was going to finish the aft end of the turtledeck where
it abuts the horizontal stab. 3 bucks worth of balsa, a little fun sanding
and shaping and a piece of 1/16 ply did the trick. A nice shop morning
before heading off to work.
The bolt secures my hard point for the shoulder harnesses.
Scott Knowlton.
Burlington ON.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org> |
That's slick. Nice touch.
--------
Scott Liefeld
Flying N11MS since March 1972
Steel Tube
C-85-12
Wire Wheels
Brodhead in 1996
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=438044#438044
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Cold Weather Piet |
| From: | "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca> |
Looking at the other photos from the Kijiji ad, it looks like the front canopy
has a hinge on the top, right down the center. And the rear canopy has a slot
cut into the back edge, like it would need to clear the antenna, if it was designed
to slide back. However, there doesn't appear to be a track to slide on,
so not sure how that might work.
BC
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=438045#438045
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/canopies_181.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Cold Weather Piet |
| From: | "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org> |
Interesting thoughts everyone. The front pit is just hard to get into without
the canopy. Perhaps the owner or someone near him has the answer. I'm sure it
is easy once explained.
--------
Scott Liefeld
Flying N11MS since March 1972
Steel Tube
C-85-12
Wire Wheels
Brodhead in 1996
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=438046#438046
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Cold Weather Piet |
| From: | "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com> |
So many ways to skin a cat...
The back one doesn't need a track to come back, and the antenna would keep it from
coming all the way out...
Getting in the front like that though, wow. Could be a bifold mechanism.
Any of the MN crowd working on a solution?!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=438050#438050
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Hot Mag Fatality. |
| From: | "William Wynne" <WilliamTCA(at)aol.com> |
I would normaly just tack the thought onto the bottom of the other thread, but
Gary Collins was a very good man, and for that reason maybe another thread is
in order.
Gary was part of the Corvair world, as he built a Corvair powered Carlson Saprrow
II. He was at Many Corvair Colleges, and part of the tight knit world of Ohio
homebuilding. He had many planes over the years, many people remember his C-170.
He also owned an 0-320 powered Tailwind, and last year, while working on
it in his hangar, not trying to start it, just working on it, it killed him.
There are some notes here http://flycorvair.net/2014/03/08/aircraft-wiring-101/. He was a very careful man, and I can say this because I see how people work at Colleges, and 30 minutes there is a better indicator than 10 years of talking around the campfire.
I want to be very clear that I am in no way suggesting that I know what was wrong with his plane, or even if there was anything wrong. He was working alone and was not found for hours, it took several days in the hospital for him to die. I bring this up because frequently new people think these warnings are an anachronism, something to do with barnstorming. They are not, and perhaps a real name, and a personal tragedy provide some awareness. The story above had link to his photos on his FB page, but it has been taken down. Look at his image, he is in the white shirt, 2nd photo down here: http://flycorvair.net/2012/04/07/sun-n-fun-2012/
Some thoughts:
Don't just try to shut the plane off with the mag switch. Every now and then try
wiggling the key in the switch. Many mag switches pass the test, but if you
jiggle the key and torment it a little, they fail. Many people put a lot of keys
on their key ring, it is a bad idea, the weight bothers the switch. Try reaching
behind the panel and wiggling the wiring also. Never get a used mag switch
from anybody. They sell them in flymarts. I watched a guy take a bad one out
of a C-120 and put it on the shelf. I suggested he just smash it with a hammer
and toss it out, he didn't I am sure it went to a flymart.
The switch is no better than the crimps on the wires, and I have seen countless
shitty chimps on homebuit P leads. This is like having a firearm with a broken
safety. Dan Weseman and I once walked around our airport looking at mag wiring
on RV's. 20% of the ones owned by 2nd owners had the L R backwards. Demonstrates
that people were careless with a very critical system 50% of the planes
were wired with wire and crimps I would deem inadequate for installing an 8-track
in a '74 Pinto.
Even with this said, the least reliable component of the system is the human. I
watch people around planes very carefully, because I do not like doing anything
with distracted idiots present. I watch people preflight planes and pull them
out while speaking on cell phones. They are idiots, and Darwin and statistics
will get them. Just make sure you are not collateral damage when their bill
comes due.
Grace was good friends with Canadian aviator Ray Fiset, who spent the last 50 years of his life in a wheel chair, as a reward for stopping a moron from walking into a prop and ended up getting it by it himself. http://www.eaa.ca/bitsandpieces/articles/2011-11_Editorial.asp
There have always been stupid people, but prescription drugs and cell phones have
made the problem more acute. Read rays story, and see that he died working
because a scam artist stole his life savings, slowly accumulated over decades
of living frugally in a wheelchair. They sent the scam guy to jail, but in a just
world, they should have executed him. I spent many hours in Ray's company,
he was a great human being. I can't find words to express this adequately.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=438051#438051
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Hot Mag Fatality. |
| From: | "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org> |
William,
As a tech counselor for EAA the past 20 years or so I run across a few planes that
folks have botched up the wiring as described by you. Most guys will listen
and make the correct changes. There are very few that won't. I live in an
area that is full of aerospace employees of all trades. They work at places like
Northrup, Lockheed, NASA and the Air force. The list goes on and on. Mechanics,
Pilots, Test Pilots, Engineers of all sorts. These guys have seen what
can happen if things are not done correctly. The guys around here are very sharp
and do all the right things to make their plane very safe. It makes my Tech
visits very pleasurable.
All your points are very valid and I am glad you shared them. Most all of us with
Piets hand prop our planes. We get very comfortable around our own planes.
We can hear them talking to us and they tell us when they are ready to run,
or if we have a low cylinder. All kinds of stuff.
I just wanted to share my story with everyone to remind them that what we do can
hurt you, and to always be prepared for that engine to fire up anytime you are
around that prop.
We all have our stories. Thank you for sharing yours. I have found that if I can
learn from mistakes others have made before me, that perhaps I'll live longer.
Now lets go flying everyone. It's over 70 degrees here in So. California.
Happy landings,
--------
Scott Liefeld
Flying N11MS since March 1972
Steel Tube
C-85-12
Wire Wheels
Brodhead in 1996
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=438091#438091
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Hot Mag Fatality. |
| From: | Marcus Zechini <marcus.zechini(at)gmail.com> |
Scott, went out after work, here in northern VA, as it was 54 degrees. Can
you weigh in on the practice of going backwards a few blades? I see that
compression & impulse mags could override one's perceived safety in that
endeavor.
On Feb 5, 2015 3:09 PM, "AircamperN11MS" wrote:
> Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org>
>
> William,
>
> As a tech counselor for EAA the past 20 years or so I run across a few
> planes that folks have botched up the wiring as described by you. Most
> guys will listen and make the correct changes. There are very few that
> won't. I live in an area that is full of aerospace employees of all
> trades. They work at places like Northrup, Lockheed, NASA and the Air
> force. The list goes on and on. Mechanics, Pilots, Test Pilots, Engineers
> of all sorts. These guys have seen what can happen if things are not done
> correctly. The guys around here are very sharp and do all the right things
> to make their plane very safe. It makes my Tech visits very pleasurable.
>
> All your points are very valid and I am glad you shared them. Most all of
> us with Piets hand prop our planes. We get very comfortable around our own
> planes. We can hear them talking to us and they tell us when they are ready
> to run, or if we have a low cylinder. All kinds of stuff.
>
> I just wanted to share my story with everyone to remind them that what we
> do can hurt you, and to always be prepared for that engine to fire up
> anytime you are around that prop.
>
> We all have our stories. Thank you for sharing yours. I have found that
> if I can learn from mistakes others have made before me, that perhaps I'll
> live longer.
>
> Now lets go flying everyone. It's over 70 degrees here in So. California.
>
> Happy landings,
>
> --------
> Scott Liefeld
> Flying N11MS since March 1972
> Steel Tube
> C-85-12
> Wire Wheels
> Brodhead in 1996
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=438091#438091
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Hot Mag Fatality. |
| From: | "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org> |
Marcus,
I never turn my engine backwards. I used to do that but have found a better way
of clearing a flooded Cont. engine.
To answer your question. Once the coil in the Magneto is charged it can fire and
hurt you if the mags are not grounded. When the points break then you will
get a spark to the plugs no mater which direction you turn the engine. By turning
the engine backwards you are also pushing all the oil from the oil pump
back into the oil tank. I need to run to a meeting right now. More later if
you want.
--------
Scott Liefeld
Flying N11MS since March 1972
Steel Tube
C-85-12
Wire Wheels
Brodhead in 1996
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=438093#438093
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Notes for new handprop builders |
| From: | "William Wynne" <WilliamTCA(at)aol.com> |
Most old School guys will know this stuff, but here are Some resources for people
new to hand propping: ( I ask forgiveness in advance if the overlaps the previous
posts of others)
.
Below are a few links that may help builders looking a Continental options. I actually have more flight hours behind Centennials that I do behind Corvairs. I like everything about Centennials except for the new owners.My wife Grace has owned a C-85 powered BC-12D for 16 years. To make it easier for her to use solo, it is set up with a total loss starting system that doesn't weigh much. A few years ago we set it up to tow our single seat 1954 Schweitzer 1-26 glider. Along the way we picked up some info that might be of use to a new Piet guy. This story is kind of a companion piece to one I wrote on July 6th called "Carbs, mags and Certified engines." It should be here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=104226&highlight=mags+wynne+navion
.
Grace's plane is set up with a tow hook on the tail spring. Because it is certified, we used a very expensive Schweitzer hook, (they are $500-$1000 used) You can buy the mechanically identical item from these people: http://www.wingsunlimitedtowhooks.com/ for Experimentals.for half that. You could make your own, but it is something you will be trusting your life to. If I was building a hand prop plane, it would have one of these. They weigh about a pound. Start the plane and get in with it tied down solo, and then pull the cockpit cable and go. A few lengths of disposable nylon rope in the glove box, and you can stop for lunch somewhere and just leave the nylon rope behind. Vastly better than any kind of wheel chocks for propping.
.
Funny story: Friend of ours who is a well known aviation journalist totaled a PZL
Wilga in a landing accident he was very embarrassed of. Years later he is hand
propping a Varga with a dead battery. It jumps the chocks, drives across a
large airport and makes a very successful unmanned strike on a tied down Mooney.
After finding that no one was hurt, the man feels horrible realizing that
he has now destroyed three aircraft in his career. His friends console him on
email by pointing out that he only has two more to destroy before his is an "Ace."
.
Critical to flying a hand prop plane is a carb that will ALWAYS idle Too many people are taught to fly power on approaches, which most old school instructors consider very poor form and potentially dangerous behavior in a hand prop plane. If you try this, and a hand prop plane quits on final, they might name the overrun in your memory. Key here is having a 1st class carb. I would not fly an experimental carb on a hand prop plane, particularly not with a pilot taught to fly power on approaches. It is a bad combination To read up on carbs, there are a dozen stories here: http://flycorvair.net/2013/12/03/carburetor-reference-page/ Look at Strombergs and MA3's. Do not be temped to using something like a posa or an aerocarb.
.
On the topic of flying approaches, if you don't own and understand this book: http://flycorvair.net/2013/05/25/greatest-book-on-flying-ever-written-is-your-life-worth-16/
do yourself a very big favor, buy it read it, study it, and really know it. It
was written 71 years ago about real Airmanship, it is period correct for Pietenpols.
If you would like to make the engine easier to hand prop, help the CG, and noticeably improve the performance of the plane, look at a metal prop. I switched from a Wood Sensenich 72-48 to this model prop on the Taylorcraft when we set it up for the glider: http://www.barnstormers.com/classified_982818_McCauley+Prop++++++.html I bought one at the SnF flymart for $300, but I would not fly it that way. I took it to a certified prop shop owned by a friend and told I wanted it pitched incredibly low, that I would not complain about the rpm no matter how high it was. He told me that the lowest legal pitch was 42", and my response was "Then, I guess that is what the paperwork will say." My estimate is that it is in the 40-38" range. This hits 2575 on the takeoff roll. It increased the rate of climb by more than 50%, but most impressive, it shortened the ground roll from 350' to 140'. If you don't look at the tach to closely, the plane will still do 95-100 mph. If I was building a Cont. Piet, I would used the same prop. BTW, it comes as 74" for 65hp engines, but it works much better at 71" on any engine 75hp and up. Don't take my word for it, there have been countless tests done on Cubs to verify this.
.
On a C series Continental, you can have just a starter by no charging system. Graces' 85hp has been this way for 15 years. It uses this starter: http://www.bandc.biz/continentalstarter12vhomebuilt.aspx which isn't cheap but it is a heck of a lot lighter and requires less amps than the stock starter. We use an Odyssey 680 sized battery, which is about half the size and weight of a standard aircraft Gill battery, but I think it would work fine with a PC-545 sized battery. It will actually get 50-75 starts between chargings.
.
If you are looking for alternative batteries, We have flown Deka SLA batteries for years, they are good, cheap and made in the US. We have also used Interstate SLA-1116 batteries, it fits in an odyssey 680 sized box, and is half the money. The last one we had took 8 years to get tired. The Deka site is: http://www.eastpennmanufacturing.com/about/facilities/
.
-ww.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=438105#438105
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | danhelsper(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Hot Mag Fatality. |
I will chime in with another educational story.
It was Brodhead 2013 I think. It had been a long day of giving one ride after another.
I had taken a lunch break, and the Model A had turned cold. So I climbed
back in with the next passenger in line. One of the older members (and very
experienced) of our group volunteered to prop me. So I said what I always do
in this situation, "Turn the prop through four blades with the mags off". So he
dutifully does just what I asked, then I, without further thought, turned the
mag switch to "on", anticipating he would pause before touching the prop once
again....WRONG! We were both very surprised when he grabs the prop again without
missing a beat and the A predictably fires off! I assure you he was startled
by the look in his eyes, and I shuddered when I thought what might have happened
to a man who's aging reflexes might not have allowed his body to get out
of the way. That bullet was dodged....and a lesson learned.
Dan Helsper
Loensloe Airfield
Puryear, TN
-----Original Message-----
From: AircamperN11MS <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org>
Sent: Thu, Feb 5, 2015 3:03 pm
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Hot Mag Fatality.
Marcus,
I never turn my engine backwards. I used to do that but have found a better way
of clearing a flooded Cont. engine.
To answer your question. Once the coil in the Magneto is charged it can fire and
hurt you if the mags are not grounded. When the points break then you will
get a spark to the plugs no mater which direction you turn the engine. By turning
the engine backwards you are also pushing all the oil from the oil pump
back into the oil tank. I need to run to a meeting right now. More later if
you want.
--------
Scott Liefeld
Flying N11MS since March 1972
Steel Tube
C-85-12
Wire Wheels
Brodhead in 1996
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=438093#438093
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Any Piets/Builders in the Charlotte area? |
| From: | "dfwplt" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
I'll have trips in the next couple weeks to Anderson, SC and Newton, NC and wonder
if there are any Piet People in the area? Flying into/out of Charlotte.
Jim in Pryor
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=438120#438120
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Cub Fuel Tank from project |
| From: | "tkreiner" <tkreiner(at)gmail.com> |
A SE TX project plane is available, and for the right $$$, I might be interested
in getting it. Project has ribs, two sets of spars, steel tube fuse, and a
box full of extra tubing, etc. The tank is a new, unused J3 Cub tank, and it
still has stickers on it...
So, the question is: is anyone using a J3 Cub fuel tank in their Piet? If so,
please let me know your experience, i.e., not enough fuel, just right, etc., also,
let me know whether it's a drop in, or requires a lot of work to use.
Since I have a fuse, the steel tube fuse might become available.
Thanks,
--------
Tom Kreiner
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=438121#438121
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Air Camper vs SLSA |
| From: | "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
So I was catching up on my stack of reading on a recent commercial flight and I
get to a page in Flying magazine where they are showing a very special deal...
a Quicksilver Sport 2SE, only $39,999. It's a 2-place, open cockpit, double-surface
wing, strut braced. 65HP, 1000 lb. max takeoff weight, cruises at a
max of about 60 MPH. Sounds a lot like an Air Camper, right?
Considering that I'm going to be offering my Air Camper for sale for something
a little south of $10k, this means I could possibly find four Air Campers for
the price of one new SLSA, and I could fly a different airplane every other day
of the week if I wanted to.
There is something in my mind that cannot understand this, but I'm hoping it's
only because I'm in early- to mid-geezerhood and this is normal for us.
Oh, and also- a simple "glass panel" instrument for an LSA, plus an ADS-B gadget,
seem to add up to the same cost as my Air Camper. It's a good thing I'm headed
for senility... that's probably the only way any of this will make sense.
I'm glad it's Friday.
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=438123#438123
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Air Camper vs SLSA |
| From: | "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org> |
Oscar,
Have you been swimming around inside my head???????
--------
Scott Liefeld
Flying N11MS since March 1972
Steel Tube
C-85-12
Wire Wheels
Brodhead in 1996
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=438124#438124
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Engelkenjohn" <mushface1(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Air Camper vs SLSA |
Its easy. Why would you drive a Bentley for upwards of $300,000 when you
could drive a dozen Chevrolets or Fords or whatever for that price? Don't
you hold your pinkies out when you fly?
dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: taildrags
Sent: Friday, February 06, 2015 3:14 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Air Camper vs SLSA
So I was catching up on my stack of reading on a recent commercial flight
and I get to a page in Flying magazine where they are showing a very special
deal... a Quicksilver Sport 2SE, only $39,999. It's a 2-place, open
cockpit, double-surface wing, strut braced. 65HP, 1000 lb. max takeoff
weight, cruises at a max of about 60 MPH. Sounds a lot like an Air Camper,
right?
Considering that I'm going to be offering my Air Camper for sale for
something a little south of $10k, this means I could possibly find four Air
Campers for the price of one new SLSA, and I could fly a different airplane
every other day of the week if I wanted to.
There is something in my mind that cannot understand this, but I'm hoping
it's only because I'm in early- to mid-geezerhood and this is normal for us.
Oh, and also- a simple "glass panel" instrument for an LSA, plus an ADS-B
gadget, seem to add up to the same cost as my Air Camper. It's a good thing
I'm headed for senility... that's probably the only way any of this will
make sense.
I'm glad it's Friday.
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=438123#438123
---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
http://www.avast.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Any Piets/Builders in the Charlotte area? |
| From: | "Charles N. Campbell" <charlescampbell1924(at)gmail.com> |
Jim, I live in Salisbury, NC which is about 40 miles from Charlotte up
Interstate 85. I have a Piet about done except for welding up the landing
gear and engine mount. After that I'll get an IA to look at it and then
comes the covering. Would love to meet you. Chuck
On Fri, Feb 6, 2015 at 3:40 PM, dfwplt wrote:
>
> I'll have trips in the next couple weeks to Anderson, SC and Newton, NC
> and wonder if there are any Piet People in the area? Flying into/out of
> Charlotte.
>
> Jim in Pryor
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=438120#438120
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Air Camper vs SLSA |
| From: | "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org> |
Wow,
The Quicksilver does everything a Piet does, but only slower. Did you notice that
the TBO on the engine is only 300 hours????? The stall speed is 38 MPH, I
think most Piets stall a lot slower than that. Oscar, Please burn that rag of
an article so nobody else can read it. Geesh, Some people will buy most anything.
I hope I have not offended anyone on this list that may have one. It is Friday
and the list is always slow on Fridays. I think Fridays should be our "we can
say what we want day without offending". All in fun folks.
Cheers all,
--------
Scott Liefeld
Flying N11MS since March 1972
Steel Tube
C-85-12
Wire Wheels
Brodhead in 1996
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=438130#438130
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ben Charvet <bencharvet(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cub Fuel Tank from project |
I'm using a J3 tank. It was an easy fit amd 12 gallons is more than i need
Sent from my iPhone
> On Feb 6, 2015, at 4:02 PM, tkreiner wrote:
>
>
> A SE TX project plane is available, and for the right $$$, I might be interested
in getting it. Project has ribs, two sets of spars, steel tube fuse, and
a box full of extra tubing, etc. The tank is a new, unused J3 Cub tank, and it
still has stickers on it...
>
> So, the question is: is anyone using a J3 Cub fuel tank in their Piet? If so,
please let me know your experience, i.e., not enough fuel, just right, etc.,
also, let me know whether it's a drop in, or requires a lot of work to use.
>
> Since I have a fuse, the steel tube fuse might become available.
>
> Thanks,
>
> --------
> Tom Kreiner
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=438121#438121
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Air Camper vs SLSA |
| From: | "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
Dennis;
I do not hold my pinkies out when I fly. I have found that it adds drag and slows
the airplane when I do that.
I am not out to bad-mouth anyone else's favorite airplane; not at all. The point
I wanted to make is that the Pietenpol Air Camper has a fantastic cost-to-benefit
ratio. My other point was that neither a glass panel nor ADS-B gadget
does anything to make me a better pilot or the airplane a better performer, but
they certainly cost plenty of money.
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=438136#438136
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Engelkenjohn" <mushface1(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Air Camper vs SLSA |
I understood, I was trying to be tongue in cheek but you know how the
interweb is, you can't show humor.
Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: taildrags
Sent: Friday, February 06, 2015 5:03 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Air Camper vs SLSA
Dennis;
I do not hold my pinkies out when I fly. I have found that it adds drag and
slows the airplane when I do that.
I am not out to bad-mouth anyone else's favorite airplane; not at all. The
point I wanted to make is that the Pietenpol Air Camper has a fantastic
cost-to-benefit ratio. My other point was that neither a glass panel nor
ADS-B gadget does anything to make me a better pilot or the airplane a
better performer, but they certainly cost plenty of money.
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=438136#438136
---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
http://www.avast.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Air Camper vs SLSA |
| From: | "wheelharp" <wheelharp(at)gmail.com> |
Oscar,
You are going to put NX41CC up for sale?
--------
Jon Jones
Ironton, MO
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=438141#438141
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Air Camper vs SLSA |
| From: | "wheelharp" <wheelharp(at)gmail.com> |
Oscar,
You are going to put NX41CC up for sale?
--------
Jon Jones
Ironton, MO
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=438142#438142
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Air Camper vs SLSA |
| From: | "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
Yes, Scout will be up for sale this spring. I'm not even bothering with it right
now, since it's still cold and rainy up here in the PacNW, but come springtime
it's going to be available. I have two other projects waiting for me in the
hangar and I'll never work on them if I have an airplane to fly.
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=438143#438143
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jack <fastnaught(at)windstream.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Any Piets/Builders in the Charlotte area? |
Jim,
I'm in Gilbert, SC. That's about an hour away. It's just west of Columbia.
You're welcome anytime if you like. My airplane is finished and waiting for the
DAR on the 14th.
Jack
Sent from my iPad
> On Feb 6, 2015, at 3:40 PM, dfwplt wrote:
>
>
> I'll have trips in the next couple weeks to Anderson, SC and Newton, NC and wonder
if there are any Piet People in the area? Flying into/out of Charlotte.
>
> Jim in Pryor
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=438120#438120
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ray Krause <raykrause(at)frontiernet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Air Camper vs SLSA |
Oscar,
I could just buy your plane and part it out for more than 10K! Hmm, engine 10K,
turn buckles $500, wheels $300, instruments $800, prop $1000, your time ZILTCH.
Had a great visit with Gary Boothe today. Poor guy had to listen to my blabbing
for about two hours! Too big a price to pay for a breakfast!
Ray Krause
Sent from my iPad
> On Feb 6, 2015, at 1:14 PM, taildrags wrote:
>
>
> So I was catching up on my stack of reading on a recent commercial flight and
I get to a page in Flying magazine where they are showing a very special deal...
a Quicksilver Sport 2SE, only $39,999. It's a 2-place, open cockpit, double-surface
wing, strut braced. 65HP, 1000 lb. max takeoff weight, cruises at
a max of about 60 MPH. Sounds a lot like an Air Camper, right?
>
> Considering that I'm going to be offering my Air Camper for sale for something
a little south of $10k, this means I could possibly find four Air Campers for
the price of one new SLSA, and I could fly a different airplane every other
day of the week if I wanted to.
>
> There is something in my mind that cannot understand this, but I'm hoping it's
only because I'm in early- to mid-geezerhood and this is normal for us.
>
> Oh, and also- a simple "glass panel" instrument for an LSA, plus an ADS-B gadget,
seem to add up to the same cost as my Air Camper. It's a good thing I'm
headed for senility... that's probably the only way any of this will make sense.
>
> I'm glad it's Friday.
>
> --------
> Oscar Zuniga
> Medford, OR
> Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
> A75 power
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=438123#438123
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ray Krause <raykrause(at)frontiernet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Cub Fuel Tank from project |
I'm using one in the Sky Scout, but had to cut a triangle piece off the bott
om rear area, now it holds only 10 gals. Easy installation.
Sent from my iPad
> On Feb 6, 2015, at 1:55 PM, Ben Charvet wrote:
>
>
> I'm using a J3 tank. It was an easy fit amd 12 gallons is more than i need
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Feb 6, 2015, at 4:02 PM, tkreiner wrote:
>>
>>
>> A SE TX project plane is available, and for the right $$$, I might be int
erested in getting it. Project has ribs, two sets of spars, steel tube fuse
, and a box full of extra tubing, etc. The tank is a new, unused J3 Cub tan
k, and it still has stickers on it...
>>
>> So, the question is: is anyone using a J3 Cub fuel tank in their Piet? I
f so, please let me know your experience, i.e., not enough fuel, just right,
etc., also, let me know whether it's a drop in, or requires a lot of work t
o use.
>>
>> Since I have a fuse, the steel tube fuse might become available.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> --------
>> Tom Kreiner
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=438121#438121
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
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