Pietenpol-List Archive Browser

Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-ot
August 18, 2015 - September 11, 2015

> > On Sun, Aug 16, 2015 at 8:19 PM, Ray Krause > wrote: > >> Chuck, >> >> Any rules on where the prop blast is? Farther out on the left wing (how >> many ribs)? How far out on the right? I just did 2" on all the control >> surfaces. Maybe overkill, but the runs are so short. >> >> Ray Krause >> >> >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On Aug 16, 2015, at 4:56 PM, Charles N. Campbell < >> charlescampbell1924(at)gmail.com> wrote: >> >> I believe the rule is 3-1/2 inches for airplanes of our airspeed. It >> looks better if you just halve that figure to 1-3/4 inches in the prop >> blast area (plus one rib). Chuck >> >> On Sun, Aug 16, 2015 at 7:12 PM, Jim Boyer wrote: >> >>> Hi Gary and Ray; >>> What rib stitching knot do you use? I used Staggerwing knot on tail >>> surfaces. Ray Marv and I will be rib stitching my first wing tomorrow. >>> Good luck Ray; PS did you space all knots 2 1/2 inches or 2 inches >>> within prop blast? >>> Thanks, >>> Jim >>> >>> >>> * >>> >>> 3D============================================ >>> 3D============================================ >>> 3D============================================ >>> 3D============================================ >>> >>> * >>> >>> >> * >> >> D============================================ >> npol-List"">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List >> D============================================ >> //forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com> >> D============================================ >> ot;">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> D============================================ >> >> * >> >> * >> >> " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List >> tp://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com> >> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> >> * >> >> > * > > D============================================ > npol-List"">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > D============================================ > //forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com> > D============================================ > ot;">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > D============================================ > > * > > * > > > * > > -- Blue Skies, Steve D ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douwe(at)douwestudios.com>
Subject: my daily posting
Date: Aug 18, 2015
Well, sorry guys, I had no idea that old message kept popping up every day. I'm not seeing it on my daily digest form. I only sent it a couple times right after Brodhead. Douwe ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douwe(at)douwestudios.com>
Subject: belly panel
Date: Aug 18, 2015
I did the same thing and have found it extremely helpful during inspection time. Large sheet of aluminum screwed down covering two bays. Douwe ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Music to build by ....
From: "womenfly2" <Love2Fly.KAP(at)gmail.com>
Date: Aug 18, 2015
Enjoy, WF2 -------- Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446110#446110 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: my daily posting
From: Jack <jack(at)textors.com>
Date: Aug 18, 2015
Not yours Douwe, a response to your question. To harm no foul... Sent from my iPad Jack Textor > On Aug 18, 2015, at 6:23 AM, "Douwe Blumberg" wro te: > > Well, sorry guys, I had no idea that old message kept popping up every day . I=99m not seeing it on my daily digest form. > > I only sent it a couple times right after Brodhead. > > Douwe > > 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 18, 2015
From: goffelectric(at)comcast.net
Subject: Re: covering
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com>
Date: Aug 18, 2015
Subject: Re: covering
Keith, you are firing blanks. Steve D On Tue, Aug 18, 2015 at 12:35 PM, wrote: > > -- Blue Skies, Steve D ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 18, 2015
From: goffelectric(at)comcast.net
Subject: Re: covering
How about now? =C2- Keith ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steven Dortch" <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com> Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2015 2:40:03 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: covering Keith, you are firing blanks. =C2- Steve D On Tue, Aug 18, 2015 at 12:35 PM, < goffelectric(at)comcast.net > wrote: -- Blue Skies, Steve D === ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fox Field
From: "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org>
Date: Aug 18, 2015
Then I would drive by it twice a day, 4 or 5 days a week. Small world -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446121#446121 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Dick's Rotec Piet for sale
From: "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org>
Date: Aug 18, 2015
I just saw it on Barnstormers. It is a great deal for someone. -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446122#446122 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com>
Date: Aug 18, 2015
Subject: Re: covering
Coming in Loud and clear. Blue Skies, Steve On Tue, Aug 18, 2015 at 3:25 PM, wrote: > How about now? > > Keith > > ------------------------------ > *From: *"Steven Dortch" <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com> > *To: *pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > *Sent: *Tuesday, August 18, 2015 2:40:03 PM > *Subject: *Re: Pietenpol-List: covering > > Keith, you are firing blanks. > > Steve D > > On Tue, Aug 18, 2015 at 12:35 PM, wrote: > >> >> >> > > > -- > Blue Skies, > Steve D > > > * > > > * > > -- Blue Skies, Steve D ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 19, 2015
From: Charles Burkholder <born2fly(at)abcmailbox.net>
Subject: Re: Dick's Rotec Piet for sale
Yes. Saw it this morning. http://www.barnstormers.com/classified_1049688_Pietenpol.html *PIETENPOL* <http://www.barnstormers.com/classified_1049688_Pietenpol.html> $15,000 *FOR SALE*Last Pietenpol built by Dick Navratil. Rotec radial engine. Disposing of estate property. Entire aircraft only - will not separate engine or other pieces. Owner does not have email. As is, where is. -->Posting on behalf of owner. To arrange a viewing, call 651-638-0793.<-- ContactPatrick Hoyt <http://www.barnstormers.com/contact_seller.php?to=163643&id=1049688&title=Pietenpol&return=%2Flisting.php%3Fmode%3Dsearch%26filters%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%253D%253D>, Friend of Owner - located Eagan, MN USA Telephone: 651-638-0793 . Posted August 18, 2015Show all Ads posted by this Advertiser <http://www.barnstormers.com/listing.php?mode=usersearch&user=163643>Recommend This Ad to a Friend <http://www.barnstormers.com/recommend.php?id=1049688&title=Pietenpol>Email Advertiser <http://www.barnstormers.com/contact_seller.php?to=163643&id=1049688&title=Pietenpol&return=%2Flisting.php%3Fmode%3Dsearch%26filters%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%253D%253D>Save to Watchlist <http://www.barnstormers.com/ad_manager/watchlist.php?ADD=1049688>Report This Ad <http://www.barnstormers.com/report_ad.php?id=1049688&title=Pietenpol>View Larger Pictures <http://www.barnstormers.com/ad_detail.php?ID=1049688&go_to_images=1> <http://www.barnstormers.com/ad_detail.php?ID=1049688&go_to_images=1> <http://www.barnstormers.com/ad_detail.php?ID=1049688&go_to_images=1> <http://www.barnstormers.com/ad_detail.php?ID=1049688&go_to_images=1> <http://www.barnstormers.com/ad_detail.php?ID=1049688&go_to_images=1> <http://www.barnstormers.com/ad_detail.php?ID=1049688&go_to_images=1> On 8/18/2015 4:18 PM, AircamperN11MS wrote: > > I just saw it on Barnstormers. It is a great deal for someone. > > -------- > Scott Liefeld > Flying N11MS since March 1972 > Steel Tube > C-85-12 > Wire Wheels > Brodhead in 1996 > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446122#446122 > > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > -- Charles Burkholder Visit my blog @ http://missionmechfund.blogspot.ca/ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 19, 2015
From: David <david(at)tynerroberts.com>
Subject: Re: Dick's Rotec Piet for sale
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Subject: Re: Dick's Rotec Piet for sale
From: "MPB" <mike(at)seatec.us>
Date: Aug 19, 2015
Saw it too... been dreaming of Piet for a long time now, but other things have gotten in the way. I am curious about the Rotec?? anyone heard of much about those as far as praticality. The only example I know sits in a big antique hangar presumably at least partly because of the the engine. That said it is a very early replica of a plane called a beachy I believe and looks a little scary despite the engine... Hoping to be a Pietenpol owner someday. Thanks, Mike Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446177#446177 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Dick's Rotec Piet for sale
From: "Jeff Boatright" <jeffboatright(at)emory.edu>
Date: Aug 19, 2015
My hangar mate (and former partner in the Piet) has one on a WWI replica. I think it's under-developed. The customers are the development engineers. I do not recommend flying behind one unless you are a real motorhead. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446179#446179 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Dick's Rotec Piet for sale
From: "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Aug 20, 2015
I agree with jeff. From what I can gather talking to Dick and dicks friends that was his opinion as well. That being said, it is priced accordingly... Also on barnstormers is dicks volmer and scout projects, I think also priced appropriately. Tools Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446184#446184 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Patricia's Pietenpol
From: "pjb" <pjb@ornithopter-pilot.com>
Date: Aug 20, 2015
Hello Everyone, Here are a couple of photo's of my Piet. It's almost ready for final inspection :D Cheers, Patricia Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446187#446187 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_1181_998.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_1177_778.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Patricia's Pietenpol
From: "pjb" <pjb@ornithopter-pilot.com>
Date: Aug 20, 2015
Another photo. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446188#446188 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_1179_168.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Dick's Rotec Piet for sale
From: "MPB" <mike(at)seatec.us>
Date: Aug 20, 2015
Definitely worth the price for one of the most recognizable Piets out there... might we a little out of my league as far wrenching on a unique motor goes though. Thanks for the feedback. Mike Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446191#446191 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 20, 2015
Subject: Re: Patricia's Pietenpol
From: Gerrit-Jan Kaal <gjhkaal(at)gmail.com>
Very nice... On Thu, Aug 20, 2015 at 5:20 PM, pjb <pjb@ornithopter-pilot.com> wrote: > > Hello Everyone, > Here are a couple of photo's of my Piet. > It's almost ready for final inspection :D > > Cheers, > Patricia > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446187#446187 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_1181_998.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_1177_778.jpg > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Progress
From: "oldbird" <semihoksay(at)gmail.com>
Date: Aug 20, 2015
I (re)started the fuselage. Today, it started to look like a fuselage. I hope within a few days, it will look better. Yes, it is wide. Inside width is 600mm (about 24 inches). Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446196#446196 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_2751_medium_523.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_2733_medium_193.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_2723_medium_155.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Progress
From: "bdewenter" <anonymouse(at)woh.rr.com>
Date: Aug 20, 2015
OldBird, Looking nice, but I do not see the inner gussets - these need to be in place before adding your cross members. Bob -------- Bob 'Early Builder' Dewenter Dayton OH Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446199#446199 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Patricia's Pietenpol
From: "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org>
Date: Aug 20, 2015
Patricia, You share the same name as my wife. It looks very nice. It appears to be a one piece wing. Who made the prop? I like the shape of it. What size Cont. engine are you using? Yes, we all like to know the details. Good luck with the inspection, -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446203#446203 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 20, 2015
From: Dan Yocum <yocum137(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Patricia's Pietenpol
Your rib stitching looks a bit spartan on the rudder. AC43.13 is pretty specific on stitch spacing. See page 2-57, here: http://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory_Circular/AC43.13-1b.pdf In the slipstream they should be spaced no greater than 2.5" apart (or 6.35cm for you folks in countries with real measurement systems.) On 08/20/2015 10:20 AM, pjb wrote: > > Hello Everyone, > Here are a couple of photo's of my Piet. > It's almost ready for final inspection :D > > Cheers, > Patricia > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446187#446187 > > > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_1181_998.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_1177_778.jpg > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Patricia's Pietenpol
From: "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org>
Date: Aug 20, 2015
Yocum, Her Spacing is fine. The slip stream they are referring to is for the wings. The paragraph I placed here is directly from the page you referred and directly below the graph. It is noted for the EMPENNAGE. There are other publications that have the spacing as well. I used the spacing that the POLY FIBER manual indicated and it very much reflects what Patricia has done. What ever is written in the covering system manual (this can vary from the different processes available) is what should apply to surfaces that are being covered with that system. "When the lace spacing on the empennage surfaces and fuselage, where so incorporated by the original aircraft manufacturer, cannot be determined, a maximum spacing equal to two times the spacing shown in figure 2-12 for the slipstream area on the wings may be used". You need to read the complete description and not just look at the graph and pictures. I am not trying to cause friction but only trying to point you the proper direction. Respectfully, -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446211#446211 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Patricia's Pietenpol
Date: Aug 20, 2015
I had brought that question up with Dan, in a private email, as that distinction had eluded me. I will say, though, and I'm not sure if anyone else has noticed, but I have felt my rudder vibrate over 90 mph. unfortunately, my poor old neck won't let me turn that far to see what's going on. At this point, I'm glad to have the closer spacing. Gary Boothe NX308MB -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of AircamperN11MS Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2015 2:26 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Patricia's Pietenpol --> Yocum, Her Spacing is fine. The slip stream they are referring to is for the wings. The paragraph I placed here is directly from the page you referred and directly below the graph. It is noted for the EMPENNAGE. There are other publications that have the spacing as well. I used the spacing that the POLY FIBER manual indicated and it very much reflects what Patricia has done. What ever is written in the covering system manual (this can vary from the different processes available) is what should apply to surfaces that are being covered with that system. "When the lace spacing on the empennage surfaces and fuselage, where so incorporated by the original aircraft manufacturer, cannot be determined, a maximum spacing equal to two times the spacing shown in figure 2-12 for the slipstream area on the wings may be used". You need to read the complete description and not just look at the graph and pictures. I am not trying to cause friction but only trying to point you the proper direction. Respectfully, -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446211#446211 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Patricia's Pietenpol
From: "Jeff Boatright" <jeffboatright(at)emory.edu>
Date: Aug 20, 2015
My tail shakes at 90 mph, but not my rudder... Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446214#446214 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Patricia's Pietenpol
From: "aerocarjake" <flight.jake(at)gmail.com>
Date: Aug 20, 2015
Really nice..... gotta love red airplanes! -------- Jake Schultz - curator, Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446216#446216 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Patricia's Pietenpol
From: Dan Yocum <yocum137(at)gmail.com>
Date: Aug 20, 2015
Ah! You are right! That really would have been a wet towel to have to tear down the rudder to re-stitch. Probably would have added a couple grand to the total cost of the plane... -- yocum137(at)gmail.com > On Aug 20, 2015, at 4:25 PM, AircamperN11MS wrote: > > > Yocum, > > Her Spacing is fine. The slip stream they are referring to is for the wings. The paragraph I placed here is directly from the page you referred and directly below the graph. It is noted for the EMPENNAGE. There are other publications that have the spacing as well. I used the spacing that the POLY FIBER manual indicated and it very much reflects what Patricia has done. > > What ever is written in the covering system manual (this can vary from the different processes available) is what should apply to surfaces that are being covered with that system. > > "When the lace spacing on the empennage surfaces > and fuselage, where so incorporated by the original > aircraft manufacturer, cannot be determined, a > maximum spacing equal to two times the spacing shown > in figure 2-12 for the slipstream area on the wings may > be used". > > You need to read the complete description and not just look at the graph and pictures. > > I am not trying to cause friction but only trying to point you the proper direction. > > Respectfully, > > -------- > Scott Liefeld > Flying N11MS since March 1972 > Steel Tube > C-85-12 > Wire Wheels > Brodhead in 1996 > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446211#446211 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ray Krause <raykrause(at)frontiernet.net>
Subject: Re: Patricia's Pietenpol
Date: Aug 20, 2015
Gary, The camera! It's better than your old neck! Thanks for the directives on stitching. I'm working alone so far and it's going OK. Ray Sent from my iPad > On Aug 20, 2015, at 2:52 PM, Gary Boothe wrote: > > > I had brought that question up with Dan, in a private email, as that > distinction had eluded me. I will say, though, and I'm not sure if anyone > else has noticed, but I have felt my rudder vibrate over 90 mph. > unfortunately, my poor old neck won't let me turn that far to see what's > going on. At this point, I'm glad to have the closer spacing. > > Gary Boothe > NX308MB > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of > AircamperN11MS > Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2015 2:26 PM > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Patricia's Pietenpol > > --> > > Yocum, > > Her Spacing is fine. The slip stream they are referring to is for the > wings. The paragraph I placed here is directly from the page you referred > and directly below the graph. It is noted for the EMPENNAGE. There are > other publications that have the spacing as well. I used the spacing that > the POLY FIBER manual indicated and it very much reflects what Patricia has > done. > > What ever is written in the covering system manual (this can vary from the > different processes available) is what should apply to surfaces that are > being covered with that system. > > "When the lace spacing on the empennage surfaces and fuselage, where so > incorporated by the original aircraft manufacturer, cannot be determined, a > maximum spacing equal to two times the spacing shown in figure 2-12 for the > slipstream area on the wings may be used". > > You need to read the complete description and not just look at the graph and > pictures. > > I am not trying to cause friction but only trying to point you the proper > direction. > > Respectfully, > > -------- > Scott Liefeld > Flying N11MS since March 1972 > Steel Tube > C-85-12 > Wire Wheels > Brodhead in 1996 > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446211#446211 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Position of ash struts, extended fuselage
From: "Harvey Plummer" <plummerharvey(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Aug 21, 2015
On the extended fuselage (Corvair Engine) should the ash strut be 10" or 12" from the front of the fuselage? Is that dimension to the rear edge of the strut? -------- Harv, 485PB Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446236#446236 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ray Krause <raykrause(at)frontiernet.net>
Subject: Re: Patricia's Pietenpol
Date: Aug 21, 2015
Patricia, Very nice plane, thanks for the photos! I love the prop, did you carve it yourself? Also, could you give a few details on the cowling, especially the front end? When will you be flying? Thanks, Ray Krause Sent from my iPad > On Aug 20, 2015, at 8:24 AM, pjb <pjb@ornithopter-pilot.com> wrote: > > > Another photo. > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446188#446188 > > > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_1179_168.jpg > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Position of ash struts, extended fuselage
From: "Catdesigns" <Catdesigns(at)att.net>
Date: Aug 21, 2015
Are you talking about the ash cross brace on the floor? If so, on the long fuselage it goes at the intersection of the two front diagonal braces which is 12 inches behind the first vertical brace (firewall). The long fuselage plans show it correctly. This has the effect of pushing the firewall forward 2 inches. I centered the ash brace on the intersection of the two braces so I think that was 12 inches to the center of the board. Keep in mind the center to center spacing of the two ash crass braces needs to be the same width as the spread between the wing strut and the lower center section fittings, which is the 28-3/4 inches, because that is the distance between the center of the two spars. Chris -------- Chris Sacramento, CA WestCoastPiet.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446243#446243 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Progress
From: "oldbird" <semihoksay(at)gmail.com>
Date: Aug 21, 2015
Bob I hope attached photos will help explain what I'm after. I did not like the idea of epoxying end grain of wood to outer layer of plywood. I know it will be more laborious but I like to saturate end grain with West epoxy, then using micofiber thickened West (becomes similar to T-88) to final glue. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446244#446244 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_2760_medium_461.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_2766_medium_110.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_2765_medium_146.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Patricia's Piet
From: Douwe Blumberg <douwe(at)douwestudios.com>
Date: Aug 21, 2015
What a beautiful plane, you should be so proud. I'm sure she'll pass with flying colors. And please yes send us all the details Douwe Sent from my iPhone ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Position of ash struts, extended fuselage
From: "Harvey Plummer" <plummerharvey(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Aug 21, 2015
Thanks for the response. I was going to do what you have suggested, however after this post I thought I might send the question to Andrew Pietenpol. His response was the front ash board should be centered at 12" from the front, but the second MUST be 27-1/2" behind the first. -------- Harv, 485PB Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446254#446254 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Position of ash struts, extended fuselage
From: "Catdesigns" <Catdesigns(at)att.net>
Date: Aug 21, 2015
That is true and I should have been a bit more careful in my response. If you look at the page with the landing gear drawings it clearly states the ash beams are 27-1/2 inches apart center to center. But this has always bothered me because it forces the wing struts to be out of parallel (bottom narrower then the top). This is only a problem when you move the wing back to adjust the CG after you build your wing struts. In reality there are a bunch of Piets built this way so obviously it makes very little difference. I assumed this was an anomaly on the plans (I don't want to say it is an error because it might be that is the true dimension) and I like keeping everything parallel so I simply built my landing gear to fit between the axle and the landing gear/ lower strut fitting. I have no idea what the length of each gear leg is as I never measured. Sorry Chis -------- Chris Sacramento, CA WestCoastPiet.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446255#446255 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: TC Pietenpol Progress
From: "oldbird" <semihoksay(at)gmail.com>
Date: Aug 22, 2015
More work on the fuselage. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446274#446274 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_2797_medium_672.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Patricia's Pietenpol
From: "pjb" <pjb@ornithopter-pilot.com>
Date: Aug 22, 2015
Hi Ray, The prop is a Cloudcars prop. Engine is a Continental A75 [I bought them both from a friend] The main cowling is sheet metal . The nose piece is fibreglass/epoxy laid up over a wooden mold - so far, several people in this area have used that same mold ! Here are some photo's taken during construction. -making the template for the sheet metalwork. -making the cowling and fitting the nosepiece. -cutting out the openings and finishing work on the nose piece Cheers, Patricia Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446277#446277 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/tn_img_1978_174.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_1019_201.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_1035c_168.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: TC Pietenpol Progress
From: "echobravo4" <eab4(at)comcast.net>
Date: Aug 22, 2015
Mr. Oldbird Maybe I'm not seeing them in the picture, but, It doesn't look like you Have the gussets glued onto the inside of the fuselage. All of your inside gussets need to be glued in before you start gluing in Your crosspieces. This picture shows what I'm talking about... -------- Earl Brown I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I intended to be. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446280#446280 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/image_950.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ray Krause <raykrause(at)frontiernet.net>
Subject: Re: TC Pietenpol Progress
Date: Aug 22, 2015
Sure looks good, brings back many memories! You only have a little way to go. Sure is fun making something that some how resembles a plane. Keep working, it is its own reward. Ray Krause Building SkyScout Sent from my iPad > On Aug 22, 2015, at 10:53 AM, oldbird wrote: > > > More work on the fuselage. > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446274#446274 > > > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_2797_medium_672.jpg > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ray Krause <raykrause(at)frontiernet.net>
Subject: Re: Patricia's Pietenpol
Date: Aug 22, 2015
Patricia, Very nice work. The cowling looks like it really belongs on this type plane. Bernard would have been pleased. The A-75 should be a great fit for the pla ne. Is the motor mount the standard length, or a little longer? The prop is absolutely beautiful. Maybe someday I will either get one of tho se same, or carve one. The nose piece was a lot of work, but very nice. I ho pe I can see your plane someday. Here is a photo of my cowl for my A-65 on the SkyScout. The spinner is optio nal and came with the engine and prop. The nose piece is a 12" aluminum fryp an! Let us know about the first flight! Ray Krause Colusa, CA Sent from my iPad > On Aug 22, 2015, at 11:03 AM, pjb <pjb@ornithopter-pilot.com> wrote: > > > Hi Ray, > > The prop is a Cloudcars prop. Engine is a Continental A75 > [I bought them both from a friend] > > The main cowling is sheet metal . > The nose piece is fibreglass/epoxy laid up over a wooden mold > - so far, several people in this area have used that same mold ! > > Here are some photo's taken during construction. > -making the template for the sheet metalwork. > -making the cowling and fitting the nosepiece. > -cutting out the openings and finishing work on the nose piece > Cheers, > Patricia > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446277#446277 > > > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/tn_img_1978_174.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_1019_201.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_1035c_168.jpg > > > > > > >

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Subject: Re: Patricia's Pietenpol
From: "aviken" <aviken(at)windstream.net>
Date: Aug 23, 2015
Hi Patricia, Great looking airplane. Rib spacing is just right. I just love those little (lights are not twinkling comments don't you.) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446293#446293 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Balloon tires?
From: "Jeff Boatright" <jeffboatright(at)emory.edu>
Date: Aug 23, 2015
Hello Good Pietenpeople! I an considering replacing the mid-70s skinny motorcycle tires in my Piet Air Camper with the big balloon tires that Bernard had on a couple of his, like the 1931 Air Camper 12236 with the 65hp Velie engine that can be seen here: http://www.pietenpolaircraftcompany.com/historic-pietenpol-photo-gallery I think they are also on the Allen Rudolf Air Camper. They look to be maybe 16 to 18 in diameter. Does anyone know anything about these wheels/tires? Thanks, Jeff Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446294#446294 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Patricia's Pietenpol
Date: Aug 23, 2015
I believe that the comment made about spacing was done in good conscience. I would hope that anyone who sees a flaw, or thinks they see a flaw, in my Piet would have the decency to speak up. Interesting to note that the older version of 41.13 does not have the paragraph noting spacing on the empennage. My version is dated 1976, old yes, but, in this case, more restrictive. That's not a bad thing. Gary Boothe NX308MB -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of aviken Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2015 7:52 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Patricia's Pietenpol Hi Patricia, Great looking airplane. Rib spacing is just right. I just love those little (lights are not twinkling comments don't you.) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446293#446293 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Patricia's Pietenpol
From: "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Aug 23, 2015
I've looked at the photo showing the engine mount on Patricia's plane and at first I thought it was definitely longer than the one on 41CC, but now I'm not so sure. There's a picture of my setup that's taken at almost the same angle and distance, here- http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/engine/a65004.jpg Hard to tell, but it looks like the oil tank is the same distance from the firewall on mine as it is on hers, and same thing for the distance from firewall to prop hub. The picture was when I had the A65 with tapered shaft hub on it, essentially the same setup as Patricia's airplane. -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446297#446297 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Patricia's Pietenpol
From: Scott Knowlton <flyingscott_k(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Aug 23, 2015
Not to step in to the middle of a thread but I visited the hangar that the a ircraft in question was being covered at. I was at the point of designing m y engine mount at the time so I diligently took a measurement of hers since I liked the proportions. 16" Scott Knowlton Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 23, 2015, at 2:22 PM, "taildrags" wrote: > > > I've looked at the photo showing the engine mount on Patricia's plane and a t first I thought it was definitely longer than the one on 41CC, but now I'm not so sure. There's a picture of my setup that's taken at almost the same angle and distance, here- http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/engine/a65004.jp g > > Hard to tell, but it looks like the oil tank is the same distance from the firewall on mine as it is on hers, and same thing for the distance from fir ewall to prop hub. The picture was when I had the A65 with tapered shaft hu b on it, essentially the same setup as Patricia's airplane. > > -------- > Oscar Zuniga > Medford, OR > Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" > A75 power > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446297#446297 > > > > > > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com>
Date: Aug 23, 2015
Subject: A65 taper shaft
I have a buddy who has several A65 engines, All at TBO, all been setting for years. He says most people don't like them because they are taper shaft and most props won't fit. . IS there a parts or prop supply problem for Taper shafts? What is the difference? -- Blue Skies, Steve D ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Patricia's Pietenpol
From: "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Aug 23, 2015
Scott: Ah-! Now you're talking! I have all the W&B info and measurements that I took of my engine mount and everything else, and I'll check it out but I recall that it is pretty close to stock. For now, I can tell you by looking at the roll of plans right next to me that the Pietenpol family plans for the Continental mount (at the top) call for 11-3/16" from face of engine mount spool to the center of the bolt that attaches the engine mount to the mount fitting at the firewall, and 10-5/8" at the bottom, for a bit of downthrust. Less than 12" from rear of engine to firewall, I'd say, so Patricia's is a good bit extended from stock. This can help with tail-heavy. -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446320#446320 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: A65 taper shaft
From: "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Aug 23, 2015
Steve; I have had both a taper shaft hub (A65) and a flanged hub (A75) on NX41CC and have had props for both. On the taper shaft hub, there is a shaft that comes forward through the prop and that shaft secures to the prop by a flange that is bolted to the face of the prop. On the flanged shaft, the flange on the nose of the crank does not have an extension through the nose of the prop. It has drive lugs that engage counterbored holes in the aft face of the prop and the prop bolts pass through the crush plate and prop into the threaded drive lugs. I don't know what your buddy is concerned about, because people who have or want older airplanes with these engines are very aware of the differences between the hubs and how to fit props to them. I have never heard anyone mention anything like, "that's a taper shaft hub, I'm going to pass on it because I can't find a prop to fit it". The prop makers will bore and counter-bore your prop as needed to fit either one. -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446321#446321 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Balloon tires?
From: "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Aug 23, 2015
Jeff; you might investigate the 'Dico' tires that a lot of the light planes like the AirBike have used and are using. I don't know who currently owns the design and markets them (maybe Titan), but they are balloonish tires with a 4 ply rating, a load range suitable to ours, and an "S-turn" tread pattern on them. Although they are not as tall as 16" or 18", they are sort of chubby and the price is quite reasonable. You can see them on my M-19 "Flying Squirrel", which is the airplane on the right, here: http://www.flysquirrel.net/hangar.jpg . The tires on my Air Camper (on the left in the picture) are 6.00x6 "Aero Trainer" tires, very good and very available at about $75 for just the tire, and you can see that the Dico turf tires are just a bit fatter and taller. For another possibility, you might look at the "Aero Classic" tires, which are meant to mimic the Stearman tire. Aircraft Spruce has the Aero Classic All-Weather and the Diamond tread, not cheap, although I think you are looking for the tires with just a straight groove tread. Nowadays the best cross-reference is going to be a turf tire like the golf carts use, or an all-purpose ATV tire. -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446322#446322 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Boatright, Jeffrey" <jeffboatright(at)emory.edu>
Subject: Re: Balloon tires?
Date: Aug 24, 2015
Hi Oscar, Thanks for the tip - this appears to be the Aero Classic solution: http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/lgpages/desser06-02501.php?clickkey=4078 Jeff Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD, FARVO Professor of Ophthalmology Emory University School of Medicine Sent from an iPad with a spelling problem > On Aug 24, 2015, at 1:00 AM, "taildrags" wrote: > > > Jeff; you might investigate the 'Dico' tires that a lot of the light planes like the AirBike have used and are using. I don't know who currently owns the design and markets them (maybe Titan), but they are balloonish tires with a 4 ply rating, a load range suitable to ours, and an "S-turn" tread pattern on them. Although they are not as tall as 16" or 18", they are sort of chubby and the price is quite reasonable. You can see them on my M-19 "Flying Squirrel", which is the airplane on the right, here: http://www.flysquirrel.net/hangar.jpg . The tires on my Air Camper (on the left in the picture) are 6.00x6 "Aero Trainer" tires, very good and very available at about $75 for just the tire, and you can see that the Dico turf tires are just a bit fatter and taller. For another possibility, you might look at the "Aero Classic" tires, which are meant to mimic the Stearman tire. Aircraft Spruce has the Aero Classic All-Weather and the Diamond tread, not cheap, although I thin! > k you are looking for the tires with just a straight groove tread. Nowadays the best cross-reference is going to be a turf tire like the golf carts use, or an all-purpose ATV tire. > > -------- > Oscar Zuniga > Medford, OR > Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" > A75 power > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446322#446322 > > ________________________________ This e-mail message (including any attachments) is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this message (including any attachments) is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please contact the sender by reply e-mail message and destroy all copies of the original message (including attachments). ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "M W Stanley" <mmrally(at)nifty.com>
Subject: Noise from Japan
Date: Aug 23, 2015
Hi Pieter's, It's been a while since I have posted anything on the list. My main computer crashed and it took ages to get it running again. I checked the email account and there were around 700 emails waiting...mostly junk. However, amongst them all, I a found a mail from Jim Markle that he sent in January of this year. I have just sent a mail back to him a day or two ago apologizing for taking so long to get back to him...a 6 1/2 month later response time is a bit too long I think! Anyway, things are quiet on the Pietenpol front over here in Japan land. Both my friends Piet and mine have been dormant for quite while. Things are crazy busy at the moment and have been that way for a fair while but, I still fly my little r/c Piet to keep my sanity. That little model is now almost 14 years old.....and still going strong! Long live the Piet! Presently I am trying to learn gas welding in the hopes of being able to make up the metal fittings etc for my project.......I am a slow learner so even that may take a while! Well, just wanted to say g'day to everyone on the list and hopefully I can get on with the project sooner rather than later! Cheers to everybody! Mark Stanley Japan Ribs done, fin/rudder done + a pile of sticks ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Balloon tires?
From: "Pietflyer1977" <rob(at)stoinoff.com>
Date: Aug 24, 2015
Those are the ones I am using. Almost the exact dimentions as on the plans and I like them because they are smooth. I think they will give it the right look. Rob Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446328#446328 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/image_529.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Boatright, Jeffrey" <jeffboatright(at)emory.edu>
Subject: Re: Balloon tires?
Date: Aug 24, 2015
Hi Rob, Neat! That looks just right. What wheels and brakes are you using and did you purchase all if it from Spruce? Thanks, Jeff Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD, FARVO Professor of Ophthalmology Emory University School of Medicine Sent from an iPad with a spelling problem > On Aug 24, 2015, at 6:43 AM, "Pietflyer1977" wrote: > > > Those are the ones I am using. Almost the exact dimentions as on the plans and I like them because they are smooth. I think they will give it the right look. > > Rob > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446328#446328 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/image_529.jpg > > ________________________________ This e-mail message (including any attachments) is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this message (including any attachments) is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please contact the sender by reply e-mail message and destroy all copies of the original message (including attachments). ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Philips" <jack(at)bedfordlandings.com>
Subject: Re: A65 taper shaft
Date: Aug 24, 2015
The only problem with the tapered shaft hub (and I've owned 3 of them) is that the hub is a separate part to be purchased. If you can find a NOS (New, old stock) hub they go for somewhere around $600. The hubs are prone to cracking and if you find an old one to buy, you should have it magnafluxed to ensure that it is not cracked. The nice thing about the tapered shaft is that the propeller can be removed very easily and quickly from the engine. The hub is simply unscrewed from the shaft and prop and hub are removed as an assembly from the engine. Jack Phillips NX899JP Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of taildrags Sent: Monday, August 24, 2015 12:34 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: A65 taper shaft --> Steve; I have had both a taper shaft hub (A65) and a flanged hub (A75) on NX41CC and have had props for both. On the taper shaft hub, there is a shaft that comes forward through the prop and that shaft secures to the prop by a flange that is bolted to the face of the prop. On the flanged shaft, the flange on the nose of the crank does not have an extension through the nose of the prop. It has drive lugs that engage counterbored holes in the aft face of the prop and the prop bolts pass through the crush plate and prop into the threaded drive lugs. I don't know what your buddy is concerned about, because people who have or want older airplanes with these engines are very aware of the differences between the hubs and how to fit props to them. I have never heard anyone mention anything like, "that's a taper shaft hub, I'm going to pass on it because I can't find a prop to fit it". The prop makers will bore and counter-bore your prop as needed to fit either one. -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446321#446321 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Patricia's Pietenpol
From: Scott Knowlton <flyingscott_k(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Aug 24, 2015
Yup, roughly 12" is called out for in the plans. Several flying examples in my area went to 16" with good results. Doing the W&B is kind of a chicken a nd egg thing when building. I try my best to follow the practices of success fully flying aircraft. My jig is currently set to 16" but I haven't fabrica ted the mount yet. I'm also using a C-85 (slightly heavier) and am contempl ating a simple light weight starter/generator so I still have more weight th at can be added to the fwd CG end. Battery could go anywhere in the end.... . It's all about keeping the tail light and your options open.... But since I still have a skeleton of an airplane I guess it is best no one f ollow in my footsteps! Scott K Burlington. Ontario Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 24, 2015, at 12:25 AM, "taildrags" wrote: > > > Scott: > > Ah-! Now you're talking! I have all the W&B info and measurements that I took of my engine mount and everything else, and I'll check it out but I re call that it is pretty close to stock. For now, I can tell you by looking a t the roll of plans right next to me that the Pietenpol family plans for the Continental mount (at the top) call for 11-3/16" from face of engine mount s pool to the center of the bolt that attaches the engine mount to the mount f itting at the firewall, and 10-5/8" at the bottom, for a bit of downthrust. Less than 12" from rear of engine to firewall, I'd say, so Patricia's is a g ood bit extended from stock. This can help with tail-heavy. > > -------- > Oscar Zuniga > Medford, OR > Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" > A75 power > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446320#446320 > > > > > > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Noise from Japan
From: "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org>
Date: Aug 24, 2015
Hello Mark, Glad to see you back. I thought that you were so busy building that you may have not had time for the list. I figured you were about ready for your first flight about now. :) Oh well, different kind of busy for you. Glad to see you're back. Now go out and glue some of those sticks together. Welcome back. Cheers, -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446335#446335 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Progress
From: "bdewenter" <anonymouse(at)woh.rr.com>
Date: Aug 24, 2015
OldBird, Very nice actually. I think the extra work and "girdring" around the cross member will add some extra strength in shear. Oh lord am I using advanced terms now? I said shear... -------- Bob 'Early Builder' Dewenter Dayton OH Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446337#446337 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "M W Stanley" <mmrally(at)nifty.com>
Subject: Re: Noise from Japan
Date: Aug 23, 2015
Hi Scott, Thanks for the welcome back, I appreciate it. Yes, the Japanese version of 'busy' is rather different to the average Australian's (that's me) version of 'busy'. I'm going to have to make some time to get on with it before I get too much older, haha, I still want to have time to enjoy flying it once it is done! I had a look at your Piet on the web, nice looking aircraft. Just wondering what are the wheels you have on it? They look fairly solid. Thanks again, Cheers Mark Japan Ribs, Fin/Rudder, Pile of sticks ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Patricia's Pietenpol
From: "pjb" <pjb@ornithopter-pilot.com>
Date: Aug 24, 2015
Yes, that's true but make sure that it doesn't end up being nose heavy instead...or nose heavv or tail heavy under some loading conditions. For example, my piet CG is 18.4" aft of datum [LE] when loaded to the max with 220 LB pilot, 150 LB passenger, full fuel in nose tank 12gal, 10 LB baggage ...this is excellent and well within allowable range. However, when loaded with just me, 110 LB, no passenger and full fuel in nose tank, the CG is 13.9" aft of datum which is well forward of the most forward, allowable CG of 15" So, something will have to be done to rectify this - since I will mostly be flying solo with no passenger ! According to the calculations, removing the nose tank and putting a tank in the wing will bring the CG into allowable range. This is being done right now !! Anyone want to buy a Cub nose tank ? Cheers, Patricia ..................... Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446342#446342 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Patricia's Pietenpol
From: "pjb" <pjb@ornithopter-pilot.com>
Date: Aug 24, 2015
Yes, that's true but make sure that it doesn't end up being nose heavy instead...or nose heavv or tail heavy under some loading conditions. For example, my piet CG is 18.4" aft of datum [LE] when loaded to the max with 220 LB pilot, 150 LB passenger, full fuel in nose tank 12gal, 10 LB baggage ...this is excellent and well within allowable range. However, when loaded with just me, 110 LB, no passenger and full fuel in nose tank, the CG is 13.9" aft of datum which is well forward of the most forward, allowable CG of 15" So, something will have to be done to rectify this - since I will mostly be flying solo with no passenger ! According to the calculations, removing the nose tank and putting a tank in the wing will bring the CG into allowable range. This is being done right now !! Anyone want to buy a Cub nose tank ? Cheers, Patricia ..................... Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446343#446343 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Noise from Japan
From: "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org>
Date: Aug 24, 2015
Mark, My wheels are from the early 1920's. They were made by Hayes Company for airplanes. There were three different sizes available. I believe mine are the smallest of the three. There are three rows of spokes on the rim side. The outside rows are for side-loads. The spokes are all parallel and do not cross each other. Therefore there are no brakes. The hub would just come out if torsional loads were applied during any braking action applied to the hubs. Planes had tail skids back then. I have found that by keeping my tires at a very low air pressure, the planes stops in a reasonable distance. If I have too much air then the darn thing just keeps rolling and rolling. Yes they hold up very well. I do not baby them. I spend a lot of time flying off the desert where there are no runways. Maybe more than you wanted to know? Cheers, -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446344#446344 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com>
Date: Aug 24, 2015
Subject: Re: Patricia's Pietenpol
Patricia, Just for reference. Some Bonanza Pilots carry empty plastic milk jugs. With two pilots in the front seats, None in the back and nothing in the baggage compartment, we are forward of the CG limits. One or two milk jugs filled with water in the Baggage compartment brings us into CG. Note. Forward of CG and the plane gets so sluggish you may not be able to flare for landing. Aft of CG and the plane gets so twitchy that you may over control and stall the plane. A lot of pilots get it backwards thinking it involves the main wing. It has to do with how close the Center of weight is to the elevators. (You did not ask, nor do I think you don't know this, but it is a favorite subject of mine.) Blue Skies, Steve D On Mon, Aug 24, 2015 at 9:47 AM, pjb <pjb@ornithopter-pilot.com> wrote: > > Yes, that's true but make sure that it doesn't end up being nose heavy > instead...or nose heavv or tail heavy under some loading conditions. > For example, my piet CG is 18.4" aft of datum [LE] when loaded to the max > with 220 LB pilot, > 150 LB passenger, full fuel in nose tank 12gal, 10 LB baggage > ...this is excellent and well within allowable range. > However, when loaded with just me, 110 LB, no passenger and full fuel in > nose tank, > the CG is 13.9" aft of datum which is well forward of the most forward, > allowable CG of 15" > So, something will have to be done to rectify this - since I will mostly > be flying solo with no passenger ! > According to the calculations, removing the nose tank and putting a tank > in the wing will bring the CG into allowable range. This is being done > right now !! > Anyone want to buy a Cub nose tank ? > > Cheers, > Patricia > > ..................... > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446343#446343 > > -- Blue Skies, Steve D ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Balloon tires?
From: "Pietflyer1977" <rob(at)stoinoff.com>
Date: Aug 24, 2015
Hi Jeff, I bought the home built Grove 6.00x6 magnesium wheel and disc brake kit from aircraft spruce and bought the tires and tubes direct from Desser Tire. I think aired up they were inch taller than on the plans 20" vs 19" if I remember correctly. I am working on building my landing gear so not sure on the stance when on yet but in my opinion they are just right for the look I want. Not too big and not too small. All my measurements are to the plans with steel gear and Model A engine. Rob Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446347#446347 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/image_262.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Any Piets living in Southern Ontario?
From: "BritishJim" <james(at)pieceofcakepr.com>
Date: Aug 24, 2015
Greetings all! I'm in London, Ontario for the next couple of weeks and wondering if anyone knows of any Piets in the area, or has contact information for owners? My full-time base is Nova Scotia where there is virtually no intelligent life, let alone a Piet owner. I figured, now that I'm in the civilized world for a few weeks, it might be good to try and hunt one down. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Jim. -------- Your nose is high; you're in the sky. The other way around; you'll hit the ground.... Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446351#446351 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Any Piets living in Southern Ontario?
From: Scott Knowlton <flyingscott_k(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Aug 24, 2015
Burlington is a 1.5 hour drive from London. I have a fuselage built on the gear with the tail group rigged, I can also introduce you to a great guy who built a Piet and still flies it 27 years later. Contact me off list. Scott Knowlton. Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 24, 2015, at 2:07 PM, "BritishJim" wrote: > > > Greetings all! > > I'm in London, Ontario for the next couple of weeks and wondering if anyone knows of any Piets in the area, or has contact information for owners? > > My full-time base is Nova Scotia where there is virtually no intelligent life, let alone a Piet owner. I figured, now that I'm in the civilized world for a few weeks, it might be good to try and hunt one down. > > Any help would be greatly appreciated. > > Jim. > > -------- > Your nose is high; you're in the sky. The other way around; you'll hit the ground.... > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446351#446351 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 24, 2015
Subject: Balloon Tires-Nanco N800 21x12.00-8.
From: Matt Naiva <corvaircoupe(at)gmail.com>
*JeffTake a look at what the Zenith guys are using on the 701 with 8" matcos.http://www.zenith.aero/profiles/blogs/testing-larger-bushwheel-tires <http://www.zenith.aero/profiles/blogs/testing-larger-bushwheel-tires>Nanco N800 21x12.00-8. run about $32 each in 2015http://is.gd/zDC8gz <http://is.gd/zDC8gz>Regards,Matt----------------Hi Rob, Neat! That looks just right. What wheels and brakes are you using and did you purchase all if it from Spruce? Thanks, Jeff Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD, FARVO Professor of Ophthalmology Emory University School of Medicine Sent from an iPad with a spelling problem* ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Robert Gow <rgow(at)avionicsdesign.ca>
Subject: Any Piets living in Southern Ontario?
Date: Aug 24, 2015
There are a couple in the Midland area but that is a longer drive Robert Gow, President and DAO Manager. Avionics Design Services Ltd. Phn 705-527-6095 Cell 416-434-3393 Fax 705-527-6028 www.avionicsdesign.ca <http://www.avionicsdesign.ca/> -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott Knowlton Sent: August-24-15 2:10 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Any Piets living in Southern Ontario? --> Burlington is a 1.5 hour drive from London. I have a fuselage built on the gear with the tail group rigged, I can also introduce you to a great guy who built a Piet and still flies it 27 years later. Contact me off list. Scott Knowlton. Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 24, 2015, at 2:07 PM, "BritishJim" wrote: > > --> > > Greetings all! > > I'm in London, Ontario for the next couple of weeks and wondering if anyone knows of any Piets in the area, or has contact information for owners? > > My full-time base is Nova Scotia where there is virtually no intelligent life, let alone a Piet owner. I figured, now that I'm in the civilized world for a few weeks, it might be good to try and hunt one down. > > Any help would be greatly appreciated. > > Jim. > > -------- > Your nose is high; you're in the sky. The other way around; you'll hit the ground.... > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446351#446351 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Any Piets living in Southern Ontario?
From: "BritishJim" <james(at)pieceofcakepr.com>
Date: Aug 24, 2015
Robert & Scott....thank you for such prompt replies! Scott - are you @hotmail.com or @hotmail.ca? It is cut off on your username and I don't want to email some random Joe who will think I'm obsessed with an actual man called "Pete". Thanks, Jim. -------- Your nose is high; you're in the sky. The other way around; you'll hit the ground.... Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446358#446358 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Any Piets living in Southern Ontario?
From: Scott Knowlton <flyingscott_k(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Aug 24, 2015
Flyingscott_k(at)hotmail.com Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 24, 2015, at 2:26 PM, "BritishJim" wrote: > > > Robert & Scott....thank you for such prompt replies! > > Scott - are you @hotmail.com or @hotmail.ca? It is cut off on your username and I don't want to email some random Joe who will think I'm obsessed with an actual man called "Pete". > > Thanks, > Jim. > > -------- > Your nose is high; you're in the sky. The other way around; you'll hit the ground.... > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446358#446358 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Fuel tank progress/welding.....
From: "aerocarjake" <flight.jake(at)gmail.com>
Date: Aug 24, 2015
Hello good Piet-ple, A quick post to share the initial welding of my fuel tank. It is wider than plans so I only need the single fuel tank in the center-section. As usual, Mike from Ready Weld makes the welding look easy. Next step is to fabricate the top skin, fit the filler necks, weld on the sumps/fittings, and then finish welding the tank. Jake -------- Jake Schultz - curator, Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446364#446364 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/welding_tank_300.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/tank_in_the_center_section_124.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Patricia's Pietenpol
From: Ben Charvet <bencharvet(at)gmail.com>
Date: Aug 24, 2015
It wouldn't take much weight in the tail (of the airplane of course) to bring you in range...Yours is a pretty unique situation! Ben On 8/24/2015 10:46 AM, pjb wrote: > > Yes, that's true but make sure that it doesn't end up being nose heavy > instead...or nose heavv or tail heavy under some loading conditions. > For example, my piet CG is 18.4" aft of datum [LE] when loaded to the max with 220 LB pilot, > 150 LB passenger, full fuel in nose tank 12gal, 10 LB baggage > ...this is excellent and well within allowable range. > However, when loaded with just me, 110 LB, no passenger and full fuel in nose tank, > the CG is 13.9" aft of datum which is well forward of the most forward, > allowable CG of 15" > So, something will have to be done to rectify this - since I will mostly be flying solo with no passenger ! > According to the calculations, removing the nose tank and putting a tank > in the wing will bring the CG into allowable range. This is being done > right now !! > Anyone want to buy a Cub nose tank ? > > Cheers, > Patricia > > ..................... > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446342#446342 > > -- Ben Charvet, PharmD Staff Pharmacist Parrish Medical center ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 24, 2015
From: Mike Salerno <mdsalern(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Tools
Dear Pieters: I have just started volunteering at the local flying museum and under the tutelage of an A&P, they've allowed me to start turning wrenches. Hopefully, this gets me a little closer to building a Piet. I have been building my tool collection a little each week for the tasks they have me do, but wonder what tools should I be starting to get to build a Pietenpol? Sincerely, Michael Salerno ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Tools
From: "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Aug 24, 2015
Sort of out of the norm for most aircraft mechs, decent woodworking tools. Personally, the most valuable wood machine to me is a bandsaw. I'd get a simple 14 inch woodcutter. All of the imports are knockoffs of the venerable delta/Milwaukee/Rockwell saw. A good used one should cost no more than a hundred bucks. Useful for everything. For another hundred or two, get one with a transmission to slow it down for metal cutting. This makes making all the metal fittings much easier. Next on the list is a nice little stationary belt/disc sander combo. Tools Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446370#446370 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 24, 2015
Subject: Re: Fuel tank progress/welding.....
From: Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com>
How big is it? Looks purdy! Steve D On Aug 24, 2015 6:34 PM, "aerocarjake" wrote: > > > > Hello good Piet-ple, > > A quick post to share the initial welding of my fuel tank. It is wider > than plans so I only need the single fuel tank in the center-section. > > As usual, Mike from Ready Weld makes the welding look easy. > > Next step is to fabricate the top skin, fit the filler necks, weld on the > sumps/fittings, and then finish welding the tank. > > Jake > > -------- > Jake Schultz - curator, > Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home) > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446364#446364 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/welding_tank_300.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/tank_in_the_center_section_124.jpg > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "M W Stanley" <mmrally(at)nifty.com>
Subject: Re: Noise from Japan
Date: Aug 24, 2015
Hi Scott, Thanks for the history on your wheels, good stuff, just the right amount of info! I like it when owners know the details/history of the various bits and pieces attached to their homebuilt aircraft. It makes the aircraft even more interesting. Some people aren't really into that sort of thing but as for me, I think it's great! Cheers Mark Japan > > > Mark, > > My wheels are from the early 1920's. ............. > Maybe more than you wanted to know? > > Cheers, > > -------- > Scott Liefeld > Flying N11MS since March 1972 > Steel Tube > C-85-12 > Wire Wheels > Brodhead in 1996 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Noise from Japan
From: "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org>
Date: Aug 25, 2015
Mark, This is the only other picture I have seen of a plane with wheels like mine. I have never seen them on another flying airplane. I also have an old catalog somewhere at home that shows them for sale. These wheels are someting I am always looking for when I visit muesum's. https://www.facebook.com/605160959538160/photos/a.629510563769866.1073741827.605160959538160/748494335204821/?type=1&theater -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446378#446378 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fuel tank progress/welding.....
From: "bdewenter" <anonymouse(at)woh.rr.com>
Date: Aug 25, 2015
Wholly smoke! Beautiful tank and must be 48" wide? Anyone for piet-piet in flight refueling at Brodhead? -------- Bob 'Early Builder' Dewenter Dayton OH Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446380#446380 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Tools
From: "bdewenter" <anonymouse(at)woh.rr.com>
Date: Aug 25, 2015
Heres a short list of what I found to be valuable clamps, clamps and more clamps 6' or 8' metal ruler 24" metal square miter saw (compound) jig saw with variable speed hacksaw with HIGH quality blades - no junk blades craftsman "razor blade" cutter wood and metal files clamps, clamps and more clamps Large bench top vice router and table various router bits many love a dedicated sanding station but I do not have one bench top grinder clamps, clamps and more clamps excellent set of drill bits drill press hand drill drill guide clamps, clamps and more clamps Box fan for hot days Kerosene heater for cold days beg use of table saw from a friend -------- Bob 'Early Builder' Dewenter Dayton OH Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446381#446381 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Weekend flying adventure
From: "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org>
Date: Aug 25, 2015
Hi Pieters, I was finally able to get away for a full weekend of flying. I flew to San Diego's Gillespie Field on Friday evening after work. It is about 170 sm from My base Fox Field. I had a heavy tailwind all the way down there and made the trip in a blazing 1 hour and 55 minutes. I'm sure that will never happen again. The purpose of this trip was to hang out with dad and do some flying with him. He is 84 and still flies at least once a week. Saturday morning we hopped in our Piets and flew down to Brown Field next to the Mexican border to hang with all the EAA chapter 14 guys and gals and do some hangar flying. We had a great time while we were there. After lunch jumped back in the planes and loitered around San Diego county for awhile before landing back at Gillespie field. My sister brought my Nephew over to dads hangar for a visit. My Nephew is currently taking flying lessons and now has about 7 hours time. I let him sit in my planes pilots seat where he was just completely amazed at the total lack of anything in the cockpit. He is flying Cherokees. Then he saw dads KR2 and wanted to try that on for size. He managed to get in but was folded up like a pretzel. He wanted to see me in the KR2 and asked me to climb into it. I have never tried before to get in it so I tried. Lets just say I don't fit and couldn't even get into it. Sunday I left to fly home and had a tailwind again. Lucky me. 2 hours 10 minutes to get home. In all, I got almost 6 hours flying in over the weekend and a sun burnt neck and nose. The sunburn was well worth it. Dad and I flew both these planes back to Brodhead back in 1996, We were gone for 16 days, flew 9 of those days and put 70 hours on them for that trip. I sure wish we could do that again, but it is not in the cards. Maybe another time, perhaps with my nephew and perhaps he could fly dads plane there along side me. Keep building y'all. These planes make for wonderful memories. I'll try to add pics now. -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446382#446382 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/20150822_102959_1_824.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Patricia's Pietenpol
From: "bdewenter" <anonymouse(at)woh.rr.com>
Date: Aug 25, 2015
How much for the cub fuel tank? -------- Bob 'Early Builder' Dewenter Dayton OH Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446383#446383 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Weekend flying adventure
From: "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org>
Date: Aug 25, 2015
Sorry about the sizing. i don't know how to fix that. -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446384#446384 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/20150822_114804_949.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Weekend flying adventure
From: "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org>
Date: Aug 25, 2015
Another -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446386#446386 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_8619_427.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Weekend flying adventure
From: "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org>
Date: Aug 25, 2015
Last one -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446387#446387 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_6737_172.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "M W Stanley" <mmrally(at)nifty.com>
Subject: Re: Noise from Japan
Date: Aug 24, 2015
Hi Scott, Thanks for the link, I like wire wheels but I like balloon wheels at the same time. Those wheels seem to be a bit of both. I am also into restoring 80's road racing bicycles (often ride them to work and back) so lacing up wheels is something I do. Lacing/truing wheels can be both interesting and frustrating! Those wheels look neat with the radial spoke pattern. Bikes sometimes have the front wheel laced with a radial pattern, but not the rear wheel as pedaling induces similar loads as trying to use brakes on you wheels. Anyway, if I ever get finished, I hope to fit wire wheels.......but that is a long way off........ Cheers Mark Stanley > Mark, > > This is the only other picture I have seen of a plane with wheels like > mine. I have never seen them on another flying airplane. I also have an > old catalog somewhere at home that shows them for sale. These wheels are > someting I am always looking for when I visit muesum's. > > https://www.facebook.com/605160959538160/photos/a.629510563769866.1073741827.605160959538160/748494335204821/?type=1&theater > > -------- > Scott Liefeld ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Noise from Japan
From: "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org>
Date: Aug 25, 2015
Yes, I wish I could find fat balloon type tires for mine. It would be nice for the type flying I do. I currently use 16" motor cycle tires. They are getting harder to find these days. My last set of tires lasted 16 years. -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446389#446389 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Weekend flying adventure
Date: Aug 25, 2015
That's quite a flight, Scott, through some busy airspace! Hat's off to you...again! Gary Boothe NX308MB -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of AircamperN11MS Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2015 6:34 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Weekend flying adventure --> Hi Pieters, I was finally able to get away for a full weekend of flying. I flew to San Diego's Gillespie Field on Friday evening after work. It is about 170 sm from My base Fox Field. I had a heavy tailwind all the way down there and made the trip in a blazing 1 hour and 55 minutes. I'm sure that will never happen again. The purpose of this trip was to hang out with dad and do some flying with him. He is 84 and still flies at least once a week. Saturday morning we hopped in our Piets and flew down to Brown Field next to the Mexican border to hang with all the EAA chapter 14 guys and gals and do some hangar flying. We had a great time while we were there. After lunch jumped back in the planes and loitered around San Diego county for awhile before landing back at Gillespie field. My sister brought my Nephew over to dads hangar for a visit. My Nephew is currently taking flying lessons and now has about 7 hours time. I let him sit in my planes pilots seat where he was just completely amazed at the total lack of anything in the cockpit. He is flying Cherokees. Then he saw dads KR2 and wanted to try that on for size. He managed to get in but was folded up like a pretzel. He wanted to see me in the KR2 and asked me to climb into it. I have never tried before to get in it so I tried. Lets just say I don't fit and couldn't even get into it. Sunday I left to fly home and had a tailwind again. Lucky me. 2 hours 10 minutes to get home. In all, I got almost 6 hours flying in over the weekend and a sun burnt neck and nose. The sunburn was well worth it. Dad and I flew both these planes back to Brodhead back in 1996, We were gone for 16 days, flew 9 of those days and put 70 hours on them for that trip. I sure wish we could do that again, but it is not in the cards. Maybe another time, perhaps with my nephew and perhaps he could fly dads plane there along side me. Keep building y'all. These planes make for wonderful memories. I'll try to add pics now. -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446382#446382 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/20150822_102959_1_824.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Weekend flying adventure
From: "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org>
Date: Aug 25, 2015
Gary, Your line is not far off my actual flight path. Yes some busy airspace. This is from my Spot PLB. Opps, Attached too many times, Sorry bout that. -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446392#446392 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/capture_212.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/capture_128.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/capture_442.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/capture_132.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fuel tank progress/welding.....
From: "aerocarjake" <flight.jake(at)gmail.com>
Date: Aug 25, 2015
Thx for the + comments.... The tank is 41" wide and by rough calculations should hold about 21 gallons..... Want to keep the fuel system as simple as possible so one tank instead of two..... -------- Jake Schultz - curator, Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446394#446394 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 25, 2015
Subject: Re: Tools
From: Ned Lebens <nlebens(at)gmail.com>
I've found a good quality low angle block plane to be invaluable. I own one of these made by Veritas: http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=47881&cat=1,230,41182,45204,47881 Rough out your miters on the bandsaw and then take them down exactly to the line with the block plane and a simple home-made "shooting board". Same thing could be accomplished with a disk sander, but I find the plane to be more accurate and a pleasure to use (no dust, no noise, pretty quick). Works great for trimming plywood too. Plus I got to learn another skill, how to sharpen it! I also use an 18" rigid steel rule quite a bit, similar to this one: http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PMAKA=326-1382&PMPXNO=12387664&PARTPG=INLMK32 Ned Lebens Chanhassen, MN ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ray Krause <raykrause(at)frontiernet.net>
Subject: Re: Weekend flying adventure
Date: Aug 25, 2015
Very nice! Where are you two headed? Ray Krause Sent from my iPad > On Aug 25, 2015, at 6:38 AM, AircamperN11MS wrote: > > > Sorry about the sizing. i don't know how to fix that. > > -------- > Scott Liefeld > Flying N11MS since March 1972 > Steel Tube > C-85-12 > Wire Wheels > Brodhead in 1996 > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446384#446384 > > > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/20150822_114804_949.jpg > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 25, 2015
From: goffelectric(at)comcast.net
Subject: Re: Weekend flying adventure
That's a great story. Thanks for sharing and thanks for the boost to keep b uilding. =C2- Thanks, Keith Goff =C2- =C2- ----- Original Message ----- From: "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org> Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2015 9:34:20 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Weekend flying adventure y.org> Hi Pieters, I was finally able to get away for a full weekend of flying. I flew to San Diego's Gillespie Field on Friday evening after work. =C2-It is about 170 sm from My base Fox Field. =C2-I had a heavy tailwind all the way down t here and made the trip in a blazing 1 hour and 55 minutes. =C2-I'm sure t hat will never happen again. =C2- The purpose of this trip was to hang out with dad and do some flying with h im. =C2-He is 84 and still flies at least once a week. =C2-Saturday mor ning we hopped in our Piets and flew down to Brown Field next to the Mexica n border to hang with all the EAA chapter 14 guys and gals and do some hang ar flying. =C2-We had a great time while we were there. =C2-After lunch jumped back in the planes and loitered around San Diego county for awhile before landing back at Gillespie field. =C2- My sister brought my Nephew over to dads hangar for a visit. =C2-My Nephe w is currently taking flying lessons and now has about 7 hours time. =C2- I let him sit in my planes pilots seat where he was just completely amazed at the total lack of anything in the cockpit. =C2-He is flying Cherokees. =C2-Then he saw dads KR2 and wanted to try that on for size. =C2-He ma naged to get in but was folded up like a pretzel. =C2-He wanted to see me in the KR2 and asked me to climb into it. =C2-I have never tried before to get in it so I tried. =C2-Lets just say I don't fit and couldn't even get into it. =C2- Sunday I left to fly home and had a tailwind again. Lucky me. =C2-2 hours 10 minutes to get home. =C2-In all, I got almost 6 hours flying in over the weekend and a sun burnt neck and nose. =C2-The sunburn was well worth it. Dad and I flew both these planes back to Brodhead back in 1996, We were gon e for 16 days, flew 9 of those days and put 70 hours on them for that trip. =C2-I sure wish we could do that again, but it is not in the cards. =C2 -Maybe another time, perhaps with my nephew and perhaps he could fly dads plane there along side me. =C2- Keep building y'all. =C2-These planes make for wonderful memories. I'll try to add pics now. -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446382#446382 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/20150822_102959_1_824.jpg =========== =========== MS - =========== e - =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2--Matt Dralle, List Admin. =========== ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Weekend flying adventure
From: "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org>
Date: Aug 25, 2015
Ray, It was just a weekend trip for me to get some flying in with my dad. I don't get to do that with him too often. Cheers, -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446398#446398 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ray Krause <raykrause(at)frontiernet.net>
Subject: Re: Weekend flying adventure
Date: Aug 25, 2015
Scott, Great to be able to share that with your Dad! Does he have a Piet, too? Ray Sent from my iPad > On Aug 25, 2015, at 9:34 AM, AircamperN11MS wrote: > > > Ray, > > It was just a weekend trip for me to get some flying in with my dad. I don't get to do that with him too often. > > Cheers, > > -------- > Scott Liefeld > Flying N11MS since March 1972 > Steel Tube > C-85-12 > Wire Wheels > Brodhead in 1996 > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446398#446398 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ray Krause <raykrause(at)frontiernet.net>
Subject: Re: Weekend flying adventure
Date: Aug 25, 2015
Scott, My grandson is 17 and will take his PPL check ride in a couple weeks, he's a lot better pilot than I am. I hope to get my SkyScout flying soon so we can take some trips together. We have a 1946 7AC Champ and my Waiex, so some flying together might be possible. Maybe I will have to build another plane, AirCamper, so we can toodle around together. Maybe I could have it done before I'm too old to fly! Ray Sent from my iPad > On Aug 25, 2015, at 7:30 AM, Gary Boothe wrote: > > That's quite a flight, Scott, through some busy airspace! Hat's off to > you...again! > > Gary Boothe > NX308MB > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of > AircamperN11MS > Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2015 6:34 AM > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Weekend flying adventure > > --> > > Hi Pieters, > > I was finally able to get away for a full weekend of flying. I flew to San > Diego's Gillespie Field on Friday evening after work. It is about 170 sm > from My base Fox Field. I had a heavy tailwind all the way down there and > made the trip in a blazing 1 hour and 55 minutes. I'm sure that will never > happen again. > > The purpose of this trip was to hang out with dad and do some flying with > him. He is 84 and still flies at least once a week. Saturday morning we > hopped in our Piets and flew down to Brown Field next to the Mexican border > to hang with all the EAA chapter 14 guys and gals and do some hangar flying. > We had a great time while we were there. After lunch jumped back in the > planes and loitered around San Diego county for awhile before landing back > at Gillespie field. > > My sister brought my Nephew over to dads hangar for a visit. My Nephew is > currently taking flying lessons and now has about 7 hours time. I let him > sit in my planes pilots seat where he was just completely amazed at the > total lack of anything in the cockpit. He is flying Cherokees. Then he saw > dads KR2 and wanted to try that on for size. He managed to get in but was > folded up like a pretzel. He wanted to see me in the KR2 and asked me to > climb into it. I have never tried before to get in it so I tried. Lets > just say I don't fit and couldn't even get into it. > > Sunday I left to fly home and had a tailwind again. Lucky me. 2 hours 10 > minutes to get home. In all, I got almost 6 hours flying in over the > weekend and a sun burnt neck and nose. The sunburn was well worth it. > > Dad and I flew both these planes back to Brodhead back in 1996, We were gone > for 16 days, flew 9 of those days and put 70 hours on them for that trip. I > sure wish we could do that again, but it is not in the cards. Maybe another > time, perhaps with my nephew and perhaps he could fly dads plane there along > side me. > > Keep building y'all. These planes make for wonderful memories. > > I'll try to add pics now. > > -------- > Scott Liefeld > Flying N11MS since March 1972 > Steel Tube > C-85-12 > Wire Wheels > Brodhead in 1996 > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446382#446382 > > > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/20150822_102959_1_824.jpg > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 25, 2015
From: Jim Boyer <boyerjrb(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Weekend flying adventure
Hi Scott, Nice picture of the Piets and your dads KR. I would love to have had that kind of experience flying with my dad. Neat memories. Jim B. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Weekend flying adventure
From: "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org>
Date: Aug 25, 2015
Ray, The blue Piet/GN1 is my dads. Mine is the green one. I do hope you have the opportunity to fly with you grandson. It makes for great memories. -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446405#446405 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 25, 2015
From: Jim Boyer <boyerjrb(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Weekend flying adventure
Hi Scott; your dad is KR sized just like mine was. They could have flown together. Cheers, Jim B. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Weekend flying adventure
From: "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org>
Date: Aug 25, 2015
Jim, You're right. He weighs in at about 145. Me? I'm not telling. :) -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446408#446408 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Alternative Engine Round-Up
Date: Aug 25, 2015
Low 'n' Slow fliers- The annual Contact! Magazine Alternative Engine Roundup is coming up. Inf ormation=2C photos=2C a forum schedule=2C and airport information here: http://www.contactmagazine.com/roundup.html It's at the French Valley Airpo rt=2C near Temecula CA=2C on September 26. I believe there is at least one Piet based there. Oscar ZunigaMedford=2C ORAir Camper NX41CC ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 25, 2015
From: woodflier <woodflier(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Alternative Engine Round-Up
I'd like to see that but a bit far from VA in a Piet. Matt Paxton -----Original Message----- From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> Sent: Tue, Aug 25, 2015 4:08 pm Subject: Pietenpol-List: Alternative Engine Round-Up Low 'n' Slow fliers- The annual Contact! Magazine Alternative Engine Roundup is coming up. Information, photos, a forum schedule, and airport information here: http://www.contactmagazine.com/roundup.html It's at the French Valley Airport, near Temecula CA, on September 26. I believe there is at least one Piet based there. Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Alternative Engine Round-Up
From: "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org>
Date: Aug 25, 2015
Oscar, This is the Corvair powered Piet at French valley. -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446413#446413 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/fvpietimg_0421_274.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 25, 2015
Subject: Re: Weekend flying adventure
From: "Charles N. Campbell" <charlescampbell1924(at)gmail.com>
You don't get too old to fly! Just ask me. I'm 91 and looking forward to flying my Piet soon. Chuck On Tue, Aug 25, 2015 at 2:41 PM, Ray Krause wrote: > raykrause(at)frontiernet.net> > > Scott, > > My grandson is 17 and will take his PPL check ride in a couple weeks, he's > a lot better pilot than I am. I hope to get my SkyScout flying soon so we > can take some trips together. We have a 1946 7AC Champ and my Waiex, so > some flying together might be possible. Maybe I will have to build another > plane, AirCamper, so we can toodle around together. Maybe I could have it > done before I'm too old to fly! > > Ray > > Sent from my iPad > > > On Aug 25, 2015, at 7:30 AM, Gary Boothe wrote: > > > > That's quite a flight, Scott, through some busy airspace! Hat's off to > > you...again! > > > > Gary Boothe > > NX308MB > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com > > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of > > AircamperN11MS > > Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2015 6:34 AM > > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Weekend flying adventure > > > > --> > > > > Hi Pieters, > > > > I was finally able to get away for a full weekend of flying. I flew to > San > > Diego's Gillespie Field on Friday evening after work. It is about 170 sm > > from My base Fox Field. I had a heavy tailwind all the way down there > and > > made the trip in a blazing 1 hour and 55 minutes. I'm sure that will > never > > happen again. > > > > The purpose of this trip was to hang out with dad and do some flying with > > him. He is 84 and still flies at least once a week. Saturday morning we > > hopped in our Piets and flew down to Brown Field next to the Mexican > border > > to hang with all the EAA chapter 14 guys and gals and do some hangar > flying. > > We had a great time while we were there. After lunch jumped back in the > > planes and loitered around San Diego county for awhile before landing > back > > at Gillespie field. > > > > My sister brought my Nephew over to dads hangar for a visit. My Nephew > is > > currently taking flying lessons and now has about 7 hours time. I let > him > > sit in my planes pilots seat where he was just completely amazed at the > > total lack of anything in the cockpit. He is flying Cherokees. Then he > saw > > dads KR2 and wanted to try that on for size. He managed to get in but > was > > folded up like a pretzel. He wanted to see me in the KR2 and asked me to > > climb into it. I have never tried before to get in it so I tried. Lets > > just say I don't fit and couldn't even get into it. > > > > Sunday I left to fly home and had a tailwind again. Lucky me. 2 hours 10 > > minutes to get home. In all, I got almost 6 hours flying in over the > > weekend and a sun burnt neck and nose. The sunburn was well worth it. > > > > Dad and I flew both these planes back to Brodhead back in 1996, We were > gone > > for 16 days, flew 9 of those days and put 70 hours on them for that > trip. I > > sure wish we could do that again, but it is not in the cards. Maybe > another > > time, perhaps with my nephew and perhaps he could fly dads plane there > along > > side me. > > > > Keep building y'all. These planes make for wonderful memories. > > > > I'll try to add pics now. > > > > -------- > > Scott Liefeld > > Flying N11MS since March 1972 > > Steel Tube > > C-85-12 > > Wire Wheels > > Brodhead in 1996 > > > > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446382#446382 > > > > > > > > > > Attachments: > > > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/20150822_102959_1_824.jpg > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ray Krause <raykrause(at)frontiernet.net>
Subject: Re: Weekend flying adventure
Date: Aug 25, 2015
Charles, Thanks for the encouragement! I hope to go as long as I can. I'm sure if I k eep building I will keep flying. Especially if my grandson maintains his int erest. In one month he heads to Seattle to start studying engineering. He th en plans to go back to school and become a professional pilot! I sure hope t hat works out. His instructor is a young man (31) who flies A320s for Virgin Atlantic. He's a really great guy and has been a great influence on our ent ire family, especially my grandson, Cai. Keep flying, I will make you my model! Thanks, Ray Krause Sent from my iPad > On Aug 25, 2015, at 4:44 PM, Charles N. Campbell wrote: > > You don't get too old to fly! Just ask me. I'm 91 and looking forward to flying my Piet soon. Chuck > >> On Tue, Aug 25, 2015 at 2:41 PM, Ray Krause w rote: et> >> >> Scott, >> >> My grandson is 17 and will take his PPL check ride in a couple weeks, he' s a lot better pilot than I am. I hope to get my SkyScout flying soon so we c an take some trips together. We have a 1946 7AC Champ and my Waiex, so some f lying together might be possible. Maybe I will have to build another plane, A irCamper, so we can toodle around together. Maybe I could have it done befor e I'm too old to fly! >> >> Ray >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> > On Aug 25, 2015, at 7:30 AM, Gary Boothe wrote: >> > >> > That's quite a flight, Scott, through some busy airspace! Hat's off to >> > you...again! >> > >> > Gary Boothe >> > NX308MB >> > >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com >> > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of >> > AircamperN11MS >> > Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2015 6:34 AM >> > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >> > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Weekend flying adventure >> > >> > --> >> > >> > Hi Pieters, >> > >> > I was finally able to get away for a full weekend of flying. I flew to S an >> > Diego's Gillespie Field on Friday evening after work. It is about 170 s m >> > from My base Fox Field. I had a heavy tailwind all the way down there a nd >> > made the trip in a blazing 1 hour and 55 minutes. I'm sure that will n ever >> > happen again. >> > >> > The purpose of this trip was to hang out with dad and do some flying wi th >> > him. He is 84 and still flies at least once a week. Saturday morning w e >> > hopped in our Piets and flew down to Brown Field next to the Mexican bo rder >> > to hang with all the EAA chapter 14 guys and gals and do some hangar fl ying. >> > We had a great time while we were there. After lunch jumped back in th e >> > planes and loitered around San Diego county for awhile before landing b ack >> > at Gillespie field. >> > >> > My sister brought my Nephew over to dads hangar for a visit. My Nephew is >> > currently taking flying lessons and now has about 7 hours time. I let h im >> > sit in my planes pilots seat where he was just completely amazed at the >> > total lack of anything in the cockpit. He is flying Cherokees. Then h e saw >> > dads KR2 and wanted to try that on for size. He managed to get in but w as >> > folded up like a pretzel. He wanted to see me in the KR2 and asked me t o >> > climb into it. I have never tried before to get in it so I tried. Let s >> > just say I don't fit and couldn't even get into it. >> > >> > Sunday I left to fly home and had a tailwind again. Lucky me. 2 hours 1 0 >> > minutes to get home. In all, I got almost 6 hours flying in over the >> > weekend and a sun burnt neck and nose. The sunburn was well worth it. >> > >> > Dad and I flew both these planes back to Brodhead back in 1996, We were gone >> > for 16 days, flew 9 of those days and put 70 hours on them for that tri p. I >> > sure wish we could do that again, but it is not in the cards. Maybe an other >> > time, perhaps with my nephew and perhaps he could fly dads plane there a long >> > side me. >> > >> > Keep building y'all. These planes make for wonderful memories. >> > >> > I'll try to add pics now. >> > >> > -------- >> > Scott Liefeld >> > Flying N11MS since March 1972 >> > Steel Tube >> > C-85-12 >> > Wire Wheels >> > Brodhead in 1996 >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > Read this topic online here: >> > >> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446382#446382 >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > Attachments: >> > >> > http://forums.matronics.com//files/20150822_102959_1_824.jpg >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >> >> ========== >> br> enpol-List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics .com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List >> ========== >> FORUMS - >> eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com >> ========== >> b Site - >> -Matt Dralle, List Admin. >> rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contributio n >> ========== > > > 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Clif Dawson" <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Tools
Date: Aug 25, 2015
Now you need these! I have been using the 800, 1200 and 8000 for many years. They cut fast and you don't want to even glance at the edge left by the 8000. It will cut your eye! :-) http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=67177&cat=1,43072,67175 And this little thing to slurry the 8000 before using it. http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=51961&cat=1,43072,67174& ap=1 The sharpenning box is full of water. When not in use the 800 and 1200 are submerged in the water, not the 8000. I dip the top of that in the water then rub the nagara over it to raise a slurry. Make sure you mirror finish the flat side of plane and chisel blades before working on the bevel side. Remember, the sharper the blade, the safer it is. Clif Working on wood wing struts. "If I have eight hours to chop down a tree, I will spend the first six sharpening my axe." ----- Original Message ----- From: Ned Lebens To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2015 9:23 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Tools I've found a good quality low angle block plane to be invaluable. I own one of these made by Veritas: http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=47881&cat=1,230,41182,45 204,47881 Rough out your miters on the bandsaw and then take them down exactly to the line with the block plane and a simple home-made "shooting board". Same thing could be accomplished with a disk sander, but I find the plane to be more accurate and a pleasure to use (no dust, no noise, pretty quick). Works great for trimming plywood too. Plus I got to learn another skill, how to sharpen it! I also use an 18" rigid steel rule quite a bit, similar to this one: http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PMAKA=326-1382&PMPXNO=12387664&PAR TPG=INLMK32 Ned Lebens Chanhassen, MN No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 08/25/15 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douwe(at)douwestudios.com>
Subject: Scott's weekend flying
Date: Aug 26, 2015
What fun Scott! Thanks for sharing. I for one find it really fun to hear others' flying adventures. Would sure love to tool around the perfectly clear blue skies of So Cal in my Piet!! I've always thought Nav would be so easy out there with all the major landmarks. Here's everything is flat and looks the same from the air, you have to really fly in an area for a while before you start noticing the subtle nuances so you know where you are. Douwe ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douwe(at)douwestudios.com>
Subject: Scott and his dad
Date: Aug 26, 2015
Hey Scott, Did your dad write up a story for the old BPA newsletter in the ninties about your flight to Brodhead and back?? Douwe ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douwe(at)douwestudios.com>
Subject: Cliff's wood struts
Date: Aug 26, 2015
Hey Cliff, Tell us about your wood struts. Douwe ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Scott's weekend flying
From: "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Aug 26, 2015
My first ride in an open cockpit airplane was in Scott's dad's blue and yellow Piet in SoCal around 1995. I think it's amazing he still has the same plane and flies regularly! My son and I just picked up a project from a guy who built it thirty years ago and has been flying it regularly, over a thousand hours, ever since. Unfortunately he had a little mishap, kids aren't interested in his plane at all, and his flying days are over... Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446441#446441 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Scott and his dad
From: "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org>
Date: Aug 26, 2015
Hi Douwe, Yes he did a nice recap. I enjoy reading it on occasion. I'll look for it and try to post it. -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446444#446444 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Scott's weekend flying
From: "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org>
Date: Aug 26, 2015
Hi all, Douse, you are very much correct about navigating the southwest. Yes the airspace is cluttered and somewhat restricted. Gary's pic shows it well. If you position yourself properly when leaving San Diego it is easy going north. Once up a thousand feet you can see the San Bernardino mountains 90 miles away. Then you just pick a point to fly towards and manage your altitude to avoid the restricted airspace. Not really a big deal. When flying through the Midwest, it is very challenging to me to use pilotage only. The GPS is a must have for me when flying back there. Tools, good to hear you got another plane for your boy to fly. Now you can have yours back. Cheers all, -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446445#446445 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Corvair Fuselage Questions
From: "Harvey Plummer" <plummerharvey(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Aug 26, 2015
What does the 11-3/4" dimension from the top of the longeron at the front of the fuselage locate? Does the 1-1/4"X 1-1/2" ash board for the motor mount get located 5-3/4" down from the top longeron? -------- Harv, 485PB Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446446#446446 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Scott and Dads "An Aircamper Story"
From: "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org>
Date: Aug 26, 2015
Douwe, Because you asked. ") This was written by my dad "Sparky Sparks" after we returned home from our 1996 adventure to Brodhead. Enjoy the story. See the attachment, Happy Landings all, -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446452#446452 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/an_air_camper_story_1_175.doc ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Balloon tires?
From: "womenfly2" <Love2Fly.KAP(at)gmail.com>
Date: Aug 27, 2015
Check out Dresser Tire Company: Cheers, WF2 -------- Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446456#446456 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Scott and Dads "An Aircamper Story"
From: "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Aug 27, 2015
Wow, and I thought the three days it took Scott, my son, and i to ferry 2rn from minny back to Georgia were colorful! That really sounds like a great trip! Tools Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446457#446457 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 27, 2015
From: Jim Boyer <boyerjrb(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Scott and Dads "An Aircamper Story"
Hi Scott; Great story about your flight to Brodhead and back. I worry when I fowl a s park plug and here your dad flies 4000 miles with out one mag. My dad learn ed to fly in 1927 and It sounds like yours probably learned to fly about th e same time. =C2- Thank you for putting this out there for us to read. Jim B. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fuel tank progress/welding.....
From: "womenfly2" <Love2Fly.KAP(at)gmail.com>
Date: Aug 28, 2015
Wow! ... 126 pounds of fuel. That is a lot of inertia in the center section. Very nice tank. Wf2 -------- Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446470#446470 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Total Cost?
From: "BritishJim" <james(at)pieceofcakepr.com>
Date: Aug 28, 2015
How long is a piece of string....right? I'm in total state of indecision between building either a Piet, or Fisher's R-80 Tiger Moth. Is there a rough...rough...rough...ballpark for the cost of building a Piet? I know that's going to open a can of worms due to all of the variables. I know it's going to be cheaper than the R-80, but I'm curious as to how much. I'd have to order all of my Piet materials from Aircraft Spruce, as I live out in the boonies and don't really have any options for scrounging or visiting local suppliers. Let the debate begin. I figure it's less than divorce though, right? :p Jim. -------- Your nose is high; you're in the sky. The other way around; you'll hit the ground.... Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446471#446471 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Gary Boothe <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Total Cost?
Date: Aug 28, 2015
Round numbers - $12,000 Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 28, 2015, at 9:23 AM, BritishJim wrote: > > > How long is a piece of string....right? > > I'm in total state of indecision between building either a Piet, or Fisher's R-80 Tiger Moth. > > Is there a rough...rough...rough...ballpark for the cost of building a Piet? I know that's going to open a can of worms due to all of the variables. > > I know it's going to be cheaper than the R-80, but I'm curious as to how much. I'd have to order all of my Piet materials from Aircraft Spruce, as I live out in the boonies and don't really have any options for scrounging or visiting local suppliers. > > Let the debate begin. I figure it's less than divorce though, right? :p > > Jim. > > -------- > Your nose is high; you're in the sky. The other way around; you'll hit the ground.... > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446471#446471 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Total Cost?
From: Scott Knowlton <flyingscott_k(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Aug 28, 2015
The wood for a Piet shouldn't cost you more than $2500cdn but perhaps the shipping will mark that up significantly. I have all my steel pieces made and spent less than $400.00 My motorcycle wheels cost $50.00 each on Kijjiji and I respoked them for an additional $75 each. Fuel tank: $300.00 Varnishes, glues, brushes, gloves:$300.00 Cowling materials: $200.00 Pullies, cables, shackles, turnbuckles, clevis pins, etc: $1500.0. (That stuff is expensive!!) Strut/cabane material (Carleson aluminium): $350.00 Engine/prop: $6000.00 Fabric/glue/latex paint: $1800.00 Instruments (basic VFR) $1200.00 Seatbelts: $400.00 These figures are what I spent, some scrounging involved, some over-paying because I needed it NOW (or so I thought.....). Plus or minus $15K Canadian. I'm sure I've forgotten many little items that others can chime in from but the word around my household is that I spent 15K and I will not admit to more.... The best part of this is that I have been building for about 8 years so the accumulation of parts and pieces has come from my mad money. I wouldn't have had that option if I was putting a big chunk of cash down on a kit. I've also loved the many social experiences that have occurred when I met people who's building supplies I purchased: Seatbelts on Kijjiji, exhaust system on eBay from a Chinook pilot stationed in Afghanistan, turnbuckles at the Oshkosh fly mart, motorcycle wheels from a Cafe Racer builder... Really cool people who I think of often when I look at my project. I also love answering the "is that a kit?", question from people who visit my shop. I reply, "yes it was, it came in a poster tube..." We can talk more when we visit. Scott Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 28, 2015, at 12:27 PM, "BritishJim" wrote: > > > How long is a piece of string....right? > > I'm in total state of indecision between building either a Piet, or Fisher's R-80 Tiger Moth. > > Is there a rough...rough...rough...ballpark for the cost of building a Piet? I know that's going to open a can of worms due to all of the variables. > > I know it's going to be cheaper than the R-80, but I'm curious as to how much. I'd have to order all of my Piet materials from Aircraft Spruce, as I live out in the boonies and don't really have any options for scrounging or visiting local suppliers. > > Let the debate begin. I figure it's less than divorce though, right? :p > > Jim. > > -------- > Your nose is high; you're in the sky. The other way around; you'll hit the ground.... > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446471#446471 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Total Cost?
From: Scott Knowlton <flyingscott_k(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Aug 28, 2015
$12,000US = $15,000 CDN!!!!! Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 28, 2015, at 12:43 PM, "Gary Boothe" wrote: > > > Round numbers - $12,000 > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Aug 28, 2015, at 9:23 AM, BritishJim wrote: >> >> >> How long is a piece of string....right? >> >> I'm in total state of indecision between building either a Piet, or Fisher's R-80 Tiger Moth. >> >> Is there a rough...rough...rough...ballpark for the cost of building a Piet? I know that's going to open a can of worms due to all of the variables. >> >> I know it's going to be cheaper than the R-80, but I'm curious as to how much. I'd have to order all of my Piet materials from Aircraft Spruce, as I live out in the boonies and don't really have any options for scrounging or visiting local suppliers. >> >> Let the debate begin. I figure it's less than divorce though, right? :p >> >> Jim. >> >> -------- >> Your nose is high; you're in the sky. The other way around; you'll hit the ground.... >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446471#446471 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Balloon tires?
From: "Andy Garrett" <andy_garrett(at)live.com>
Date: Aug 28, 2015
I'm interested in these: http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/181471176464?ul_noapp=true&chn=ps&lpid=82 They are being tested by Zenair on their CH750. You can read about it here: http://www.zenith.aero/profiles/blogs/testing-larger-bushwheel-tires $50ish each for now because its made for an ATV. Once they start getting aviation business, I'm sure the cost will quaduple. -------- Andy Garrett 'General Purpose Creative Dude' Haysville, Kansas Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446475#446475 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Total Cost?
From: "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Aug 28, 2015
Food for thought... A Piet is one of the most popular home builts ever. Buying a wrecked, dilapidated or stared but never finished project saves a bunch of time and money. Not sure about the quality? The expensive parts are fairly easily checked. The wood is cheap compared to the whole project... You get the idea. I refer to them as quick build kits, some less quick than others. As with all buying, just be sure about what you are getting, and spend less than it's worth. Not trivial, but then again, what's trivial about buying it all separately or building a plane to begin with? I also consider it my contribution to recycling. Cheers! Tools Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446476#446476 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Philips" <jack(at)bedfordlandings.com>
Subject: Total Cost?
Date: Aug 28, 2015
Jim, I spared no expense when building my Pietenpol, using expensive polyurethane paint and adding a radio and transponder. My total cost was $15,000 (ten years ago). It took me eight years to build it. I like to tell people I spent the same amount of money in those eight years that a two pack per day smoker would have spent on cigarettes. One of the unsung advantages of building to plans versus a kit is that the expenses can be spread out much further. I'm currently building an RV-10 kit and each of the four kits (Tail, Wings, Fuselage, and Finishing) are quite expensive and represent a substantial investment. I just got the fuselage kit and am starting to save now for the $16,000 that will be required for the finishing kit. When building my Pietenpol the largest single expenditure was $3,200 for new Millenium cylinders for the engine. Most of the orders were around a few hundred dollars. Jack Phillips NX899JP Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of BritishJim Sent: Friday, August 28, 2015 12:24 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Total Cost? --> How long is a piece of string....right? I'm in total state of indecision between building either a Piet, or Fisher's R-80 Tiger Moth. Is there a rough...rough...rough...ballpark for the cost of building a Piet? I know that's going to open a can of worms due to all of the variables. I know it's going to be cheaper than the R-80, but I'm curious as to how much. I'd have to order all of my Piet materials from Aircraft Spruce, as I live out in the boonies and don't really have any options for scrounging or visiting local suppliers. Let the debate begin. I figure it's less than divorce though, right? :p Jim. -------- Your nose is high; you're in the sky. The other way around; you'll hit the ground.... Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446471#446471 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Total Cost?
From: "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org>
Date: Aug 28, 2015
Back in 1972 it cost us $1500. Nope not a typo. We got our moneys worth many many years ago. Just think about it like this. 15K now and in 20 years you'll look back and say. "That was a bargain" And it was inexpensive too. Like jack said, Just a two pack a day habit covers it. That statement was probably true back in 1972 as well. Great way of looking at it. -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446480#446480 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Robert Gow <rgow(at)avionicsdesign.ca>
Subject: Re: Total Cost?
Date: Aug 28, 2015
And a new car was $3,000. House $18,000. I made $4.00 an hour. Cigarettes were under a dollar. Coffee went from 10 cents to 25 . . . Robert Gow, President and DAO Manager. Avionics Design Services Ltd. Phn 705-527-6095 Cell 416-434-3393 Fax 705-527-6028 www.avionicsdesign.ca <http://www.avionicsdesign.ca/> -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of AircamperN11MS Sent: August-28-15 2:44 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Total Cost? --> Back in 1972 it cost us $1500. Nope not a typo. We got our moneys worth many many years ago. Just think about it like this. 15K now and in 20 years you'll look back and say. "That was a bargain" And it was inexpensive too. Like jack said, Just a two pack a day habit covers it. That statement was probably true back in 1972 as well. Great way of looking at it. -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446480#446480 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Barry Davis" <bed(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Total Cost?
Date: Aug 28, 2015
On building the 6 Big Piets, each builder paid $200 per month into a kitty and then just bought what we needed. On this group build, we did not "draw" a serial number until we the planes were ready for final paint, so we had no idea whose plane we were working on or which one we would get. This kept the quality the same, but did not leave a lot of room for scrounging. We spent $6500 on each Corvair engine and really spared no expense on much of anything. We welded steel fuselages, built wood wings and finished with Stewart system for paint. We bought stuff like yellow tagged Marvel carbs, New Grove wheels and brakes, powder coated all metal parts. All in all we spent $16,000 on each plane and finished all but one (one guy quit the project) in 6 years working every Monday night and one Saturday a month. We had several EAA Chapter members that visited the project a lot so we would not just let them stand around and watch, we put them to work. I know Matt L worked at least 500 hours and others worked 200 to 300 hours each. This extra help really paid off. The $200 per month made it really easy to finance the Big Piet Project. Barry NX973BP -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of BritishJim Sent: Friday, August 28, 2015 12:24 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Total Cost? --> How long is a piece of string....right? I'm in total state of indecision between building either a Piet, or Fisher's R-80 Tiger Moth. Is there a rough...rough...rough...ballpark for the cost of building a Piet? I know that's going to open a can of worms due to all of the variables. I know it's going to be cheaper than the R-80, but I'm curious as to how much. I'd have to order all of my Piet materials from Aircraft Spruce, as I live out in the boonies and don't really have any options for scrounging or visiting local suppliers. Let the debate begin. I figure it's less than divorce though, right? :p Jim. -------- Your nose is high; you're in the sky. The other way around; you'll hit the ground.... Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446471#446471 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-LME0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Subject: Total Cost?
Date: Aug 28, 2015
I would estimate my total cost at around $15,000 in 1995 prices but I would guess I could still do it for about that amount now. I just completely majored m A-65 and that ran me $5,500 to do it using 100% top notch FAA Certified reconditioning shops and all new parts. Mike C. Ohio ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fuel tank progress/welding.....
From: "aerocarjake" <flight.jake(at)gmail.com>
Date: Aug 28, 2015
Yes, I agree that it's a lot of fuel/weight. I have built substantially stronger cabaine struts and will secure the tank with 4130 straps/turbuckles. I wanted a three-hour capacity, since the ROTEC radial burns about 7gph. So I should have 2 1/2 hours flying time plus reserve. As a comparison, the Stearman tank in that upper center-section holds 46 gallons...!!! -------- Jake Schultz - curator, Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446505#446505 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Total Cost?
From: "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca>
Date: Aug 28, 2015
One more thing, Jim. In Canada, if you register the plane as an amateur built, you will be required to have a couple of inspections performed by MDRA. Those inspections are not free. Count on spending almost $2000 for the inspections. If, however, you register the plane as a Basic Ultralight (which the Pietenpol qualifies as,) then there are no inspections required, and thus, no fees for inspections. The down side is that you're not allowed to carry passengers, except under certain circumstances. Bill C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446506#446506 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Total Cost?
From: "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Aug 28, 2015
Hey bill, Is that a one time shot for you guys? Can you fork up the fees and do the inspections later with any practicality? Tools Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446507#446507 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Total Cost?
From: "BritishJim" <james(at)pieceofcakepr.com>
Date: Aug 28, 2015
Great information, guys. Really helpful - and it certainly sounds like a fairly cost-effective build - with 100000% ROI on the fun factor. Those inspections in Canada will no doubt be a pain, but a necessary evil if you want to carry passengers. I'd of course love to go the Basic Ultralight route, but it's so restrictive. If only TC would certify it as an Advanced Ultralight. That will be the day ;) -------- Your nose is high; you're in the sky. The other way around; you'll hit the ground.... Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446508#446508 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Corvair Fuselage Questions
From: "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Aug 28, 2015
Harvey; if you have the Pietenpol Corvair engine mount plans, note that the two 1-1/4"x.049 steel tubes that form the "bed" for the Corvair bed mount have caps on their firewall ends with 5/16" holes. If you look at where those fall on the fore end of the fuselage, I believe they line up with that 11-3/4" dimension from the top of the upper longeron. That would locate a cross-brace to bolt the bed tubes to the fuselage. If you're using a William Wynne mount, don't bother with that cross-brace unless you just want to stiffen the front of the fuselage, because his mount just uses the 4 standard corner mount points and the bed 'floats'. The 1-1/4" x 1-1/2" ash bearer support is used with the Ford engine, where the two 1"x2-1/4" ash engine bearers are supported at their fuselage end by that bearer support. If you're using the Corvair or Continental, there is really nothing bearing on that bearer support so you don't need it. So you will need some x-brace at the top of the fuselage, but depending on which engine you use, it may go at the top or somewhere below that. -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446510#446510 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Total Cost?
From: "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca>
Date: Aug 29, 2015
Tools, There is a minimum requirement of a pre-cover inspection and a final inspection. These inspections must be performed, and passed before the permit to fly can be issued. The funny thing is that the very same aircraft can be built and registered as a Basic Ultralight without any mandatory inspections. Bill C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446513#446513 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Total Cost?
From: "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Aug 29, 2015
People always ask... What plane, what tools, what skills... I'm coming to the conclusion, as least for folks like me, a good shrink or some psych courses on how to just make a decision and stick with it! This stuff just wouldn't be fun without a bunch seemingly life altering decisions... Scott and I are looking at our new project with a utility knife quivering in our hand, do we strip all the way down or just fix the damn thing and go fly? So British Jim, congratulations on asking the ONLY question in Piet history with NO controversy! I think the wildest thing is how consistent the build price is over time. Things that make you go hmmm?! Another universal truth, time or money. Buying a project to start out with will save money, but you can't pick up the phone and order it from spruce the minute you want it. Likely gonna cost time. For what it's worth, I bought mine complete for $12k. I believe that's about median for a good bird. Bad news, less than it costs to build. Good news, not much less and will keep that value for a LONG time with minimal effort. Great news, either way it is a FANTASTIC return on investment. Cheers, Tools Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446514#446514 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Total Cost?
From: "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Aug 29, 2015
People always ask... What plane, what tools, what skills... I'm coming to the conclusion, as least for folks like me, a good shrink or some psych courses on how to just make a decision and stick with it! This stuff just wouldn't be fun without a bunch seemingly life altering decisions... Scott and I are looking at our new project with a utility knife quivering in our hand, do we strip all the way down or just fix the damn thing and go fly? So British Jim, congratulations on asking the ONLY question in Piet history with NO controversy! I think the wildest thing is how consistent the build price is over time. Things that make you go hmmm?! Another universal truth, time or money. Buying a project to start out with will save money, but you can't pick up the phone and order it from spruce the minute you want it. Likely gonna cost time. For what it's worth, I bought mine complete for $12k. I believe that's about median for a good bird. Bad news, less than it costs to build. Good news, not much less and will keep that value for a LONG time with minimal effort. Great news, either way it is a FANTASTIC return on investment. Cheers, Tools Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446515#446515 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Would This Corvair Work?
From: "BritishJim" <james(at)pieceofcakepr.com>
Date: Aug 29, 2015
Even though my project is in its infancy....by chance...a Corvair has come up for sale about an hour from where I'm currently staying (I'm in Ontario for a month). Out in the boonies in Nova Scotia where I am based....you NEVER see them! I'd likely have to crate one across the country. [contents of advertisement copied below] Would this be suitable for a Piet? If so, what questions should I be asking the seller? I've called him and there's a bit of a backstory. He bought the engine from a guy in British Columbia who ran it for a few hours, but it's never actually been mounted to an airplane. He's turned it over each month with storage oil to keep it in good shape, and he claims it only needs a muffler to be complete. He can't get a medical anymore so is ditching the project he planned to put it in. Look like a good deal? I'm not yet at that point where I've educated myself about the ins and outs of engines (except having decided that I do want to go the Corvair route). Any guidance would be appreciated! Ad & pics follows below. J. --- CONVERTED CORVAIR ENGINE $5,000 AVAILABLE FOR IMMEDIATE SALE 115 HP Complete rebuilt Corvair conversion engine, Magnafluxed crankshaft, new balanced pistons, new heads with valves and new camshaft reground for better low end torque sn: t05i7rd -alternator, starter, exhaust and mixutre controlled carb -machined 0200 engine mount attach bracket with rubber mounts -remote oil filter housing, carb filter, oil hoses, alternator plug warp drives three bladed high hp ground adjustable propeller sn: h6224 -prop protractor for blade angle adjustment -------- Your nose is high; you're in the sky. The other way around; you'll hit the ground.... Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446517#446517 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/bs3_887.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/bs2_905.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/bs1_150.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Would This Corvair Work?
From: "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Aug 29, 2015
Jim; you'll no doubt get a lot of different responses to your question about whether or not that Corvair would work, but there are just too many unknowns for anyone to tell you for sure. Not to discourage you from investigating the use of this engine, I'll just say that "It depends". First of all, disbelieve the claim that the engine produces 115HP, unless they tell you at what RPM they are claiming that power output. In the speed range that you'll direct-drive an aircraft propeller suitable for a Piet, it might be a 90-95HP engine. Next, while magnafluxing the crankshaft is a good first-step diagnostic tool for determining if it is sound, it doesn't do anything to the crank to make it special. If it has been nitrided and has had the fillet radii inspected, that would be a plus. Has the engine been fitted with a 5th bearing at the front? New pistons are great, but what are they? Cast or forged? New heads? From where? GM hasn't made these heads since the 1960s. What are the head numbers? There are many different combustion chamber configurations on Corvairs and some are more suitable for our conversions than others. New camshaft reground for better low-end torque? Okay, but what cam, what grind, and at what RPM does it make its low-end torque? A great cam in a car does not necessarily make a great cam in an airplane. Machined O-200 engine mount sounds good. Are any like this flying? You're trusting your life and your airplane to that mount. And what airframe had it been intended to mount onto? Distance from the firewall for an Air Camper is not the same as for a KR or for a Zenith, and neither is the thrust line position relative to the airframe. Rear-drive alternator. Has this setup been flown? I think you will get more guidance from others on this list as far as questions to ask the seller. -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446518#446518 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Would This Corvair Work?
From: "BritishJim" <james(at)pieceofcakepr.com>
Date: Aug 29, 2015
Great information - thank you! I'll wait for any more responses and then get a list of questions sent off. Appreciate your time. J. -------- Your nose is high; you're in the sky. The other way around; you'll hit the ground.... Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446519#446519 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Would This Corvair Work?
Date: Aug 29, 2015
Jim, I agree with everything that Oscar says, without exception. In addition: 1) I note that it has been set up with a rear starter that extends quite a distance in the back of the engine. That, plus the mount setup looks like you would have a somewhat long-nosed installation. 2) The alternator appears to be the auto type...much heavier than needed for a Pietenpol. A small John Deere alternator works just fine. 3) I'm no engineer, but that mount just looks scary...too many variables, and, as Oscar said, has it been flown. The Corvair is a tray mounted engine, a lot like the Franklin engines, and those trays are easy to build. 4) Prop hub...what flight history does that design have? All things considered, depending on the price, you may still have a good buy. The peripherals that I just mentioned can all be changed to what is flight-proven. Although I fly with a William Wynne conversion, and fairly certain to be getting close to 100 hp at t/o rpm, not all flying Corvairs have that configuration....you would do just fine with less H/P. Try to find out about those pistons, and also the lifters (un-airworthy Chinese lifters have made a big presence). When you get some more answers, you may consider a direct conversation with William Wynne. He'll give you honest, thoughtful, educated opinions. Gary Boothe NX308MB -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of taildrags Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2015 10:42 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Would This Corvair Work? --> Jim; you'll no doubt get a lot of different responses to your question about whether or not that Corvair would work, but there are just too many unknowns for anyone to tell you for sure. Not to discourage you from investigating the use of this engine, I'll just say that "It depends". First of all, disbelieve the claim that the engine produces 115HP, unless they tell you at what RPM they are claiming that power output. In the speed range that you'll direct-drive an aircraft propeller suitable for a Piet, it might be a 90-95HP engine. Next, while magnafluxing the crankshaft is a good first-step diagnostic tool for determining if it is sound, it doesn't do anything to the crank to make it special. If it has been nitrided and has had the fillet radii inspected, that would be a plus. Has the engine been fitted with a 5th bearing at the front? New pistons are great, but what are they? Cast or forged? New heads? From where? GM hasn't made these heads since the 1960s. What are the head numbers? There are many different combustion chamber configurations on Corvairs and some are more suitable for our conversions than others. New camshaft reground for better low-end torque? Okay, but what cam, what grind, and at what RPM does it make its low-end torque? A great cam in a car does not necessarily make a great cam in an airplane. Machined O-200 engine mount sounds good. Are any like this flying? You're trusting your life and your airplane to that mount. And what airframe had it been intended to mount onto? Distance from the firewall for an Air Camper is not the same as for a KR or for a Zenith, and neither is the thrust line position relative to the airframe. Rear-drive alternator. Has this setup been flown? I think you will get more guidance from others on this list as far as questions to ask the seller. -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446518#446518 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Flat spring gear
From: "Andy Garrett" <andy_garrett(at)live.com>
Date: Aug 29, 2015
So I was surprised to not find a single image of a Piet of flat spring gear anywhere on the web. I figured surely someone had re purposed an old set of Cessna 140 legs on one before. Seems simple enough, anyway. Not sure how it would look... -------- Andy Garrett 'General Purpose Creative Dude' Haysville, Kansas Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446530#446530 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com>
Date: Aug 29, 2015
Subject: Re: Flat spring gear
Andy, I am a fan of the Cessna (really Steve Whitman) Spring gear having had it on my 1959 Cessna 150. Simple, Rugged, does exactly what it is supposed to do. It made some of my harder "arrivals" look good. Might it be too stiff for a Piet? Blue Skies, Steve D -- Blue Skies, Steve D ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Flat spring gear
From: "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Aug 29, 2015
I've got a dilapidated one of home built project called a sturgeon. Built by frank sturgeon around 1970. It's a grega/Piet class thing tail dragger with a c85, supposedly pre war wood taylorcraft wings, piper tail feathers and, you guessed it, c150 flat spring gear. It's a tandam open cockpit parasol with a welded steel tube fuse. Has the whole aluminum gear box bolted in there. It's VERY apart and easy to get pics of if anyone is interested. This came with my chief project and is in the "I might rebuild it some day" category. Had three or four owners and flew quite a bit, must have been a decent setup. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446535#446535 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Flat spring gear
From: "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Aug 29, 2015
Steve: Check your spelling. It's "Wittman", not "Whitman". As in Wittman Tailwind, Wittman Regional Airport, Sylvester "Steve" Wittman. Gol-dang Texans cain't spell fer nothin'. -Oscar -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446546#446546 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 29, 2015
Subject: Re: Flat spring gear
From: Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com>
You should listen to what I mean, not what I type! On Aug 29, 2015 10:05 PM, "taildrags" wrote: > > Steve: Check your spelling. It's "Wittman", not "Whitman". As in Wittman > Tailwind, Wittman Regional Airport, Sylvester "Steve" Wittman. Gol-dang > Texans cain't spell fer nothin'. > > -Oscar > > -------- > Oscar Zuniga > Medford, OR > Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" > A75 power > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446546#446546 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 29, 2015
Subject: OT? Vortex generators
From: Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com>
Driving down the highway I passed a wind farm windmill blade 100 feet long, with vortex generators on it also toward the tip it had vortex generators and the trailing edge looked like shark teeth. has any Pietenpol had VG's and what do the shark teeth do? Blue Skies, Steve D ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: OT? Vortex generators
From: "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Aug 30, 2015
Steve, P.F. Beck has VG's. Do a search in the archives for his name and the info he wrote where he and Don Harper compared the Pietenpol airfoil with the Riblett airfoil. You may find some info there. -------- Semper Fi, Terry Hand Athens, GA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446552#446552 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 30, 2015
From: Yahoo! Account Service <skipgadd(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Flat spring gear
Andy, One problem with the flat spring gear on a wood fuze Piet would be spreading the l/g load to the bottom of the fuze. Both Piet gears do this by terminating the l/g legs at the lower longeron where uprights are. This is why Grega had to make an extra bay in his fuze side, as the cub gear terminates 6 or 8 inches forward of Piets location. You would have to do some beefing up to get the l/g load spread over a large enough area. It would be a lot easier with a steel tube Piet. Skip -----Original Message----- >From: Andy Garrett <andy_garrett(at)live.com> >Sent: Aug 29, 2015 6:18 PM >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Flat spring gear > > >So I was surprised to not find a single image of a Piet of flat spring gear anywhere on the web. > >I figured surely someone had re purposed an old set of Cessna 140 legs on one before. Seems simple enough, anyway. > >Not sure how it would look... > >-------- >Andy Garrett >'General Purpose Creative Dude' >Haysville, Kansas > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446530#446530 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Flat spring gear
From: "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca>
Date: Aug 30, 2015
As with almost every "new idea" regarding the Pietenpol, it has been done before. Attached are a few photos of Pietenpols (or reasonable facsimiles) with flat spring gear. Like Skip said, serious reinforcement of the fuselage would be required. Personally, I do not care for the look. Bill C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446558#446558 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/jqn_rt27_05_07_144.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/1359437f_153.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/1292_601.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: TC Pietenpol Progress
From: "oldbird" <semihoksay(at)gmail.com>
Date: Aug 30, 2015
On Saturday, we finished fitting of the tail post and epoxied it. Today we cut the parts for the rear fuselage cross members. They will be epoxied this evening. The the diagonals and ply reinforcements. Hoping to remove fuselage from the bench this week to work on the details. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446559#446559 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_2867_medium_139.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: TC Pietenpol Progress
From: "oldbird" <semihoksay(at)gmail.com>
Date: Aug 30, 2015
On Saturday, we finished fitting of the tail post and epoxied it. Today we cut the parts for the rear fuselage cross members. They will be epoxied this evening. The the diagonals and ply reinforcements. Hoping to remove fuselage from the bench this week to work on the details. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446560#446560 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_2873_medium_156.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_2869_medium_164.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_2867_medium_141.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: OT? Vortex generators
From: "Jeff Boatright" <jeffboatright(at)emory.edu>
Date: Aug 30, 2015
I have VGs on my wing, but not on the prop. My wing leading edge is sheet aluminum. When the fabric was shrunk, the aluminum was pulled in, like a dent, across rib bays. This produced a sharper airfoil nose, though non-uniformly, across the leading edge. Prior to adding the VGs, the stall was sharp with an unpredictable wing drop. With VGs, stall was at lower airspeed, gentler if it happened at all, and with not much wing drop. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446561#446561 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 30, 2015
Subject: Re: Flat spring gear
From: Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com>
Clean, sturdy ,and simple, probably faster, but faster is not the goal with a Piet. Looks "grasshopperey" to me. Blue skies Steve D On Aug 30, 2015 9:49 AM, "Bill Church" wrote: > billspiet(at)sympatico.ca> > > As with almost every "new idea" regarding the Pietenpol, it has been done > before. Attached are a few photos of Pietenpols (or reasonable facsimiles) > with flat spring gear. Like Skip said, serious reinforcement of the > fuselage would be required. > Personally, I do not care for the look. > > Bill C. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446558#446558 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/jqn_rt27_05_07_144.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/1359437f_153.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/1292_601.jpg > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Flat spring gear
From: "Andy Garrett" <andy_garrett(at)live.com>
Date: Aug 30, 2015
Great responses! Thanks for the pics Bill. Now I can get my head around 'the look'. Still undecided, but it sure looks easy, doesn't it? -------- Andy Garrett 'General Purpose Creative Dude' Haysville, Kansas Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446572#446572 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Flat spring gear
From: "echobravo4" <eab4(at)comcast.net>
Date: Aug 30, 2015
Hard to tell if it would be easy without seeing the surrounding structure- There will have to be a lot of reinforcement in that area -------- Earl Brown I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I intended to be. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446577#446577 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Flat spring gear
From: "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca>
Date: Aug 30, 2015
Andy, Not so sure about how "easy" it would be to incorporate flat spring gear on a Pietenpol. As mentioned before, some serious reinforcing would need to be added to the fuselage (designed by someone that understands strengths of materials, and the loads that will potentially be transferred with such a design.) I'm pretty sure that the extra work would amount to a lot more work than would be required to just build one of the two versions shown in the plans (gear that was designed for the plane, not vice-versa.) Then again, when you said it looks "easy", maybe you meant ugly. :) Bill C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446578#446578 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 30, 2015
Subject: Re: OT? Vortex generators
From: Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com>
I have not heard of putting VGs on props. But I have seen dimple tape. Did the VGs slow your cruise speed? For Bonanzas and barons some report 5 to 10 kt slower cruise 180 kts to 170-175. They also report very improved control at slow speed and a much gentler stall. Blue skies Steve D Sounds like they work as advertised On Aug 30, 2015 10:27 AM, "Jeff Boatright" wrote: > jeffboatright(at)emory.edu> > > I have VGs on my wing, but not on the prop. My wing leading edge is sheet > aluminum. When the fabric was shrunk, the aluminum was pulled in, like a > dent, across rib bays. This produced a sharper airfoil nose, though > non-uniformly, across the leading edge. Prior to adding the VGs, the stall > was sharp with an unpredictable wing drop. With VGs, stall was at lower > airspeed, gentler if it happened at all, and with not much wing drop. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446561#446561 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Flat spring gear
From: "Andy Garrett" <andy_garrett(at)live.com>
Date: Aug 30, 2015
I'm sure you guys are correct. -------- Andy Garrett 'General Purpose Creative Dude' Haysville, Kansas Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446584#446584 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douwe(at)douwestudios.com>
Subject: VG's and shark's teeth
Date: Aug 30, 2015
P.F. Beck installed VG's on his and noted slight improvements, but probably not enough to make it worth the effort. I have a set but after talking with him decided I'm fine without. "shark's teeth" is probably doing a similar job to "vortelators", basically decreasing the size of the wake, hence requiring less force to move the wing/propeller through the air, thus allowing a wind turbine to move in less wind, or an engine to use less power to spin a prop at the same speed as without. That's the theory. I installed vortelator tape on my prop and saw about a 20rpm static increase, so I left it on. Every little bit helps. Douwe ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douwe(at)douwestudios.com>
Subject: pre-cover inspection
Date: Aug 30, 2015
FYI, Unless things have changed back to the old days, I don't believe a "pre-cover" inspection is a requirement anymore. Hasn't been for quite some time. Douwe ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: pre-cover inspection
From: Scott Knowlton <flyingscott_k(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Aug 30, 2015
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Subject: Re: pre-cover inspection
From: "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca>
Date: Aug 30, 2015
Douwe, I assume you're referring to my comment in another thread a couple of days ago. I was referring to the requirements to license a plane in Canada. Pre-cover inspection is mandatory in Canada, but not in the USA. Mandatory or not, I think it's a very good idea to have another knowledgeable person give the whole aircraft a good once-over before covering with fabric. Bill C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446594#446594 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 31, 2015
From: goffelectric(at)comcast.net
Subject: Re: OT? Vortex generators
I Think Don Harper just put them on his. He may let us know how they do aft er he does a little flight testing. Keith Goff ----- Original Message ----- From: "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com> Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2015 4:36:16 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: OT? Vortex generators ail.com> Steve, P.F. Beck has VG's. Do a search in the archives for his name and the info h e wrote where he and Don Harper compared the Pietenpol airfoil with the Rib lett airfoil. You may find some info there. -------- Semper Fi, Terry Hand Athens, GA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446552#446552 =========== =========== MS - =========== e - =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2--Matt Dralle, List Admin. =========== ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: pre-cover inspection
From: Dan Yocum <yocum137(at)gmail.com>
Date: Aug 30, 2015
Hey Douwe, Why start a new email thread for a conversation that's already ongoing? Jus t hit the 'reply' or 'postreply' button. Dan -- yocum137(at)gmail.com > On Aug 30, 2015, at 6:41 PM, Douwe Blumberg wrote : > > FYI, > > Unless things have changed back to the old days, I don=99t believe a =9Cpre-cover=9D inspection is a requirement anymore. Hasn =99t been for quite some time. > > Douwe > > 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douwe(at)douwestudios.com>
Subject: new threads
Date: Aug 31, 2015
Hey Dan, I am always afraid if I push "reply" that everyone will have to read every single post. Is that not the case? Douwe ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: new threads
From: Dan Yocum <yocum137(at)gmail.com>
Date: Aug 31, 2015
Depends on how you have your mail client set up - if it is set to automatically include the previous emails as a quotation, then yes, people will have some sort of reference to discern what you're talking about. That's not preventing you from selecting the text you do NOT want to send and hitting the 'Delete' key. For instance, I've left everything quoted from your last email below EXCEPT that I selected the standard footer and deleted it. On 08/31/2015 06:35 AM, Douwe Blumberg wrote: > Hey Dan, > > > > I am always afraid if I push reply that everyone will have to read > every single post. Is that not the case? > > > > Douwe > -- Dan Yocum yocum137(at)gmail.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Would This Corvair Work?
From: "dgaldrich" <dgaldrich(at)embarqmail.com>
Date: Aug 31, 2015
What you MAY have there is a good core and probably not worth much more than core price (maybe $200 US +/-). Essentially, you'll have to completely disassemble the engine to make sure you have a usable crank, heads and block and then start over completely rebuilding to aircraft standards. William Wynne's site has the part numbers for the usable stuff and if any of the major components aren't on the "list", then the value drops significantly. The stuff like generator, starter, shrouding, and so on may have value. The prop hub and engine mount are really questionable and likely not usable. See previous replies for specifics on individual components. Dave Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446623#446623 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Lambert / Warner Piets
From: "FritzW" <fwagoner(at)zianet.com>
Date: Aug 31, 2015
Hi All, Just checking in with the group. Last Saturday me and a couple of friends were half joking about building 3 Pietenpols. We have access to 2 90hp Lamberts and a Warner. The idea is still in the "Hangar B.S.ing" stage and all of us have airplane projects to finish first, but I started looking around the internet this morning to see what was happening in the Pietenpol world. I'm encouraged by how much Pietenpol info is out there! I just ordered a set of Air Camper and Sky Scout plans. I'll wait until they show up before I start asking a bunch of new guy questions. Fritz -------- Isous Christos, Theou Yios, Str Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446626#446626 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: new threads
From: "echobravo4" <eab4(at)comcast.net>
Date: Aug 31, 2015
And if you are viewing the forum in a browser- The little page icon next to the posters name in the "last post" column will take you right to the last post -------- Earl Brown I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I intended to be. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446628#446628 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Lambert / Warner Piets
From: "Jeff Boatright" <jeffboatright(at)emory.edu>
Date: Aug 31, 2015
I got a ride in the Aircamper that Dick Weeden powered with a Lambert (I think it was a Lambert). That was a very sweet ride! I think it is the best combination of power, nostalgia, and reliability (?) there is for the Piet. The Model A is the prototypical Piet engine, but that moderate-sized radial was just what the airframe needed. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446631#446631 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com>
Date: Aug 31, 2015
Subject: Re: Lambert / Warner Piets
Those old radials will never work or look right! They have never made good airplane engines. You can contact me offlist for my address. I will dispose of them for you. They need to be crated properly and shipping paid in full. I am doing this for your protection. Blue Skies, Steve D. A-65 PietenGrega 95% done and stuck there. On Mon, Aug 31, 2015 at 2:51 PM, Jeff Boatright wrote: > jeffboatright(at)emory.edu> > > I got a ride in the Aircamper that Dick Weeden powered with a Lambert (I > think it was a Lambert). That was a very sweet ride! I think it is the best > combination of power, nostalgia, and reliability (?) there is for the Piet. > The Model A is the prototypical Piet engine, but that moderate-sized radial > was just what the airframe needed. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446631#446631 > > -- Blue Skies, Steve D ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 31, 2015
From: woodflier <woodflier(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Lambert / Warner Piets
Right, Steve, and my Piet cruises at 150 mph. Matt Paxton -----Original Message----- From: Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com> Sent: Mon, Aug 31, 2015 4:21 pm Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Lambert / Warner Piets Those old radials will never work or look right! They have never made good airplane engines. You can contact me offlist for my address. I will dispose of them for you. They need to be crated properly and shipping paid in full. I am doing this for your protection. Blue Skies, Steve D. A-65 PietenGrega 95% done and stuck there. On Mon, Aug 31, 2015 at 2:51 PM, Jeff Boatright wrote: I got a ride in the Aircamper that Dick Weeden powered with a Lambert (I think it was a Lambert). That was a very sweet ride! I think it is the best combination of power, nostalgia, and reliability (?) there is for the Piet. The Model A is the prototypical Piet engine, but that moderate-sized radial was just what the airframe needed. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446631#446631 =========== br> enpol-List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List =========== FORUMS - eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com =========== b Site - -Matt Dralle, List Admin. rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution =========== -- Blue Skies, Steve D ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 31, 2015
From: Mike Salerno <mdsalern(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Tools
Thanks for the heads up on the sharpening stones. Didn't realize I would be needing something like that. One piece at a time...=0A=0A=0APardon, but yo ur message got overlooked amongst the others from the list.=0A=0A=0AMike=0A =0ASent from Yahoo Mail on Android=0A=0AFrom:"Clif Dawson" =0ADate:Wed, Aug 26, 2015 at 1:42 AM=0ASubject:Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Tools=0A=0ANow you need these! I have been using the 800, 1200=0A=0Aand 80 00 for many years. They cut fast and you don't=0A=0Awant to even glance at the edge left by the 8000. It=0A=0Awill cut your eye! :-)=0A=0Ahttp://www.l eevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=67177&cat=1,43072,67175=0A=0AAnd this little thing to slurry the 8000 before using it.=0A=0Ahttp://www.leevalley. com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=51961&cat=1,43072,67174&ap=1=0A=0A-=0A=0ATh e sharpenning box is full of water. When not in use=0A=0Athe 800 and 1200 a re submerged in the water, not=0A=0Athe 8000. I dip the top of that in the water then rub=0A=0Athe nagara over it to raise a slurry.=0A=0AMake sure yo u mirror finish the flat side of plane=0A=0Aand chisel blades before workin g on the bevel side.=0A=0A-=0A=0ARemember, the sharper the blade, the saf er it is.=0A=0A-=0A=0AClif=0A=0AWorking on wood wing struts.=0A=0A-=0A =0A"If I have eight hours to chop down a tree, I will spend=0A=0Athe first six sharpening my axe."=0A=0A----- Original Message ----- =0A=0AFrom: Ned L ebens =0A=0ATo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com =0A=0ASent: Tuesday, August 25 , 2015 9:23 AM=0A=0ASubject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Tools=0A=0A=0AI've fou nd a good quality low angle block plane to be invaluable.- I own one of t hese made by Veritas: =0A=0A=0Ahttp://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p =47881&cat=1,230,41182,45204,47881=0A=0A=0ARough out your miters on the bandsaw and then take them down exactly to the line with the block plane a nd a simple home-made "shooting board".- Same thing could be accomplished with a disk sander, but I find the plane to be more accurate and a pleasur e to use (no dust, no noise, pretty quick).- Works great for trimming ply wood too.- Plus I got to learn another skill, how to sharpen it!=0A=0A=0A I also use an 18" rigid steel rule quite a bit, similar to this one:=0A=0A =0Ahttp://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PMAKA=326-1382&PMPXNO=12387664&PA RTPG=INLMK32=0A=0A=0ANed Lebens=0A=0AChanhassen, MN=0A=0Ahref="http://w ww.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigat or?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matron ics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics .com/c =0A=0ANo virus found in this message.=0AChecked by AVG - www.avg.com 15=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 31, 2015
From: Mike Salerno <mdsalern(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Tools
Thanks for the advice Ned. Looks like a nice piece of equipment.=0A=0A=0AMi ke=0A=0ASent from Yahoo Mail on Android=0A=0AFrom:"Ned Lebens" =0ADate:Tue, Aug 25, 2015 at 11:37 AM=0ASubject:Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Tools=0A=0AI've found a good quality low angle block plane to be invalu able.- I own one of these made by Veritas:=0A=0A=0Ahttp://www.leevalley.c om/US/wood/page.aspx?p=47881&cat=1,230,41182,45204,47881=0A=0A=0ARough out your miters on the bandsaw and then take them down exactly to the line with the block plane and a simple home-made "shooting board".- Same thing could be accomplished with a disk sander, but I find the plane to be more accurate and a pleasure to use (no dust, no noise, pretty quick).- Works great for trimming plywood too.- Plus I got to learn another skill, how t o sharpen it!=0A=0A=0AI also use an 18" rigid steel rule quite a bit, simil ar to this one:=0A=0A=0Ahttp://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PMAKA=326-1382 &PMPXNO=12387664&PARTPG=INLMK32=0A=0A=0ANed Lebens=0A=0AChanhassen, MN ====== =0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Lambert / Warner Piets
From: "FritzW" <fwagoner(at)zianet.com>
Date: Aug 31, 2015
steven.d.dortch(at)gmail. wrote: > ...I will dispose of them for you. steven.d.dortch(at)gmail. wrote: > ...I am doing this for your protection. Not a lot of people would be willing to make that sacrifice, your a real stand up guy. [Laughing] -------- Isous Christos, Theou Yios, Str Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446643#446643 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com>
Date: Aug 31, 2015
Subject: Re: Lambert / Warner Piets
Dear FritzW, It is the least I could do. Actually you should build the planes, mount the engines and cover the planes and then deliver them. Or better yet, for a small fee I will come and fly them to my hangar. Don't paint them, I would not want you to waste your time, besides I like to personalize my planes. LOL Welcome to the list. Laugh, be thick skinned and learn, no matter what you decide to build. There are some smart people on this list (me not included) Those radials would look great on a Piet and should provide good performance. Blue Skies, Steve D On Mon, Aug 31, 2015 at 7:30 PM, FritzW wrote: > > > steven.d.dortch(at)gmail. wrote: > > ...I will dispose of them for you. > > > steven.d.dortch(at)gmail. wrote: > > ...I am doing this for your protection. > > > Not a lot of people would be willing to make that sacrifice, your a real > stand up guy. [Laughing] > > -------- > I=C4=93sous Christos, Theou Yios, S=C5=8Dt=C4=93r > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446643#446643 > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > -- Blue Skies, Steve D ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Lambert / Warner Piets
From: "FritzW" <fwagoner(at)zianet.com>
Date: Aug 31, 2015
steven.d.dortch(at)gmail. wrote: > ... Laugh, be thick skinned and learn Sounds like my kind of group! I got an email back from Andrew Pietenpol as soon as I placed the order (a good sign) saying he'd get the plans in the mail tomorrow. I hope to get them by Friday. I've been lusting over the Piet's for a long time (3 or 4 decades) but other airplanes always seem to move to the front burner. ...I can really see me in a Lambert powered Sky Scout piddling around the patch :) -------- Isous Christos, Theou Yios, Str Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446648#446648 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douwe(at)douwestudios.com>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List Digest: 13 Msgs - 08/31/15
Date: Sep 01, 2015
Good idea Dan! Since I get the digest version, when I reply, it DOES list all messages; in this case 13, so to take pity on you guys I have to delete them all, but it probably makes reading easier on your end. Douwe ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: new threads From: Dan Yocum <yocum137(at)gmail.com> Depends on how you have your mail client set up - if it is set to automatically include the previous emails as a quotation, then yes, people will have some sort of reference to discern what you're talking about. That's not preventing you from selecting the text you do NOT want to send and hitting the 'Delete' key. For instance, I've left everything quoted from your last email below EXCEPT that I selected the standard footer and deleted it. On 08/31/2015 06:35 AM, Douwe Blumberg wrote: > Hey Dan, > > > > I am always afraid if I push reply that everyone will have to read > every single post. Is that not the case? > > > > Douwe > -- Dan Yocum yocum137(at)gmail.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Lambert / Warner Piets
From: "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org>
Date: Sep 01, 2015
Fritz, A friend of mine built this plane in the 1970's. This has a Lambert engine on it. It gives you an idea of what one may look like with that engine. http://www.westcoastpiet.com/images/Texas%20Air%20Museum/pictures.htm Cheers, -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446653#446653 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 13 Msgs - 08/31/15
From: "tkreiner" <tkreiner(at)gmail.com>
Date: Sep 01, 2015
Douwe, With all due respect - when a New Topic is created rather than a Reply in an existing thread, the reader is left scratching his head, wondering what the H***, or how the H***, this New Topic means. So, reading, and then, re-reading ALL of the current threads, one will go back and realize that the New Topic is actually a Reply to the last post of an existing thread. In those cases where we have LOTS of interesting threads popping up, it might take 10 to 15 minutes to figure out how the New Topic (which is actually a REPLY), fits into the overall scheme of things. So, please hit Post Reply, rather than New Topic, as this makes reading the entire thread MUCH EASIER. And, BTW, if you just bookmark the site, and create a Tab for it, you can drop the digest altogether... -------- Tom Kreiner Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446662#446662 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Lambert / Warner Piets
From: "FritzW" <fwagoner(at)zianet.com>
Date: Sep 01, 2015
Nice! I've been going through the pictures on West Coast Piet but I haven't got to the "T"'s yet. I did see your fine example in the "S"'s though. (love the airspeed indicator!) Fritz I did see your AircamperN11MS wrote: > Fritz, > > A friend of mine built this plane in the 1970's. This has a Lambert engine on it. It gives you an idea of what one may look like with that engine. > > http://www.westcoastpiet.com/images/Texas%20Air%20Museum/pictures.htm > > Cheers, -------- Isous Christos, Theou Yios, Str Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446669#446669 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "CatDesigns" <CatDesigns(at)att.net>
Subject: Re: Lambert / Warner Piets
Date: Sep 01, 2015
I forget what engine this Piet has. All I know is it is round and beautiful. http://www.westcoastpiet.com/images/Miscellaneous/images/radialPiet.jpg Chris Sacramento, CA WestcoastPiet.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of FritzW Sent: Tuesday, September 1, 2015 5:45 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Lambert / Warner Piets Nice! I've been going through the pictures on West Coast Piet but I haven't got to the "T"'s yet. I did see your fine example in the "S"'s though. (love the airspeed indicator!) Fritz I did see your AircamperN11MS wrote: > Fritz, > > A friend of mine built this plane in the 1970's. This has a Lambert engine on it. It gives you an idea of what one may look like with that engine. > > http://www.westcoastpiet.com/images/Texas%20Air%20Museum/pictures.htm > > Cheers, -------- Isous Christos, Theou Yios, Str Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446669#446669 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Lambert / Warner Piets
From: "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org>
Date: Sep 01, 2015
Thank you Fritz. -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446672#446672 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Lambert / Warner Piets
From: "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca>
Date: Sep 01, 2015
One of the nicest looking Piets around, with a Lambert R-266 on the nose. https://flic.kr/p/xhcu3U Bill C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446673#446673 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Lambert / Warner Piets
From: "Jeff Boatright" <jeffboatright(at)emory.edu>
Date: Sep 02, 2015
I think that that is Dick Weeden's Piet, and I'm pretty sure that's a Lambert radial, but I could easily be wrong. Catdesigns wrote: > I forget what engine this Piet has. All I know is it is round and beautiful. > > http://www.westcoastpiet.com/images/Miscellaneous/images/radialPiet.jpg > > > > Chris > Sacramento, CA > WestcoastPiet.com > > > -- Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446676#446676 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 02, 2015
From: Yahoo! Account Service <skipgadd(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Lambert / Warner Piets
Hi Jeff, My first Piet ride was also in this plane with Dick Weeden 1992. It was built in the 1980's by Dick, Ted Davis and Francis Saunders at Brodhead. The engine was a LaBond. After the 2nd engine out, I think Ted Davis was the owner than, he removed the engine. The plane was around Brodhead with different owners and a Ford A for a while. I think Ted told me this summer he bought the plane back and plans a small Continental, so he can fly it more than work on it. It was beautiful with the LaBond. Skip -----Original Message----- >From: Jeff Boatright <jeffboatright(at)emory.edu> >Sent: Sep 2, 2015 6:53 AM >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Lambert / Warner Piets > > >I think that that is Dick Weeden's Piet, and I'm pretty sure that's a Lambert radial, but I could easily be wrong. > > >Catdesigns wrote: >> I forget what engine this Piet has. All I know is it is round and beautiful. >> >> http://www.westcoastpiet.com/images/Miscellaneous/images/radialPiet.jpg >> >> >> >> Chris >> Sacramento, CA >> WestcoastPiet.com >> >> >> -- > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446676#446676 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Lambert / Warner Piets
From: "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com>
Date: Sep 02, 2015
Bill, The photo you posted is from a fly in that I went to with Frank Pavliga last montgh. You can see the tail of mine in the picture also. I told Frank at that fly in that from now on I am no longer parking beside him... because when I do HIS airplane gets all the attention! It is absolutely beautiful. The Lambert puts out a very healthy 90 hp. I can't remember but the prop is huge. The length is somewhere in the 80+ inches range. It is a fantastic combination. Frank has been generous enough to let me fly it and it is a huge kick in the pants. Before you get the throttle all the way in it is skipping and snorting across the ground. The climb and cruise is terrific. Its makes for a great Piet and the coolness factor is over the top. You just have to be ready to work on them and keep them up... and have someone close by that is a true expert. Recently, on a trip that we were both flying in, we had to pull a jug and replace/resurface a head gasket overnight. So it comes at a price... Don Emch NX899DE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446691#446691 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Ford Engine weights
From: "FritzW" <fwagoner(at)zianet.com>
Date: Sep 02, 2015
Hi All, Anyone know off the top of their head how much the Model A and a Model T conversions weigh? While I'm sitting around waiting for the mailman to bring my Air Camper and Sky Scout plans, I'm trying to get an idea of potential CG issues with a Lambert. ...I'm also trying to ignore a thought that keeps buzzing around my head: a VERY light (not ultralight) VW w/redrive powered Sky Scout. I'd hate to be the the un-informed new guy with an impractical daydream so I'll keep it to myself [Wink] Looking at the F&G manuals, it looks like there's the potential to shed a pound or two off a Pietenpol. -------- Isous Christos, Theou Yios, Str Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446714#446714 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Ford Engine weights
From: "gjkaal" <gjhkaal(at)gmail.com>
Date: Sep 02, 2015
Hi, Just off the top of my head, a Model A will be around 235 pound or 110kg. A VW conversion is very light in comparison. If i can believe greatplains, it will be around 135pounds with a reduction drive, or 60kg. Whatever the case, this has an impact on your W&B, with you ending up carrying dead weight (batteries) or a very long nose. But then an engine choice is never easy, especially with the Pietenpol. GJ Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446717#446717 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Clif Dawson" <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Ford Engine weights
Date: Sep 03, 2015
According to the 1932 flying and glider mag the A is 244 lb. I'm assuming dry wt So you need to add water , plumbing and radiator to that. Would 16 lb be a reasonable estimate? Clif Old age and treachery will beat youth and enthusiasm every time. Someone > > Hi, > > Just off the top of my head, a Model A will be around 235 pound or 110kg. > > > GJ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 03, 2015
Subject: Re: Ford Engine weights
From: Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com>
Fritz, I did a little research when I first became interested in Pekin poles. people have tried VW engines but no one has been successful. there is something about the higher rpm, and the weight that makes it an inefficient combination. The A or T are actually pretty good if you ignore reliability. They make their hp at a low rpm with lots of torque. A big prop and low speed make that a happy combo. The old radials are somewhat similar. Blue skies Steve D On Sep 2, 2015 11:19 PM, "FritzW" wrote: > > Hi All, > > Anyone know off the top of their head how much the Model A and a Model T > conversions weigh? > > While I'm sitting around waiting for the mailman to bring my Air Camper > and Sky Scout plans, I'm trying to get an idea of potential CG issues wit h > a Lambert. > > ...I'm also trying to ignore a thought that keeps buzzing around my head: > a VERY light (not ultralight) VW w/redrive powered Sky Scout. I'd hate to > be the the un-informed new guy with an impractical daydream so I'll keep it > to myself [Wink] > > Looking at the F&G manuals, it looks like there's the potential to shed a > pound or two off a Pietenpol. > > -------- > I=C4=93sous Christos, Theou Yios, S=C5=8Dt=C4=93r > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446714#446714 > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 03, 2015
Subject: Re: Ford Engine weights
From: John Cox <rv10pro(at)gmail.com>
For weight and power, does anyone ever consider the Rotax 912iS with Fuel Injection and FADEC or is that blasphemy? John Cox On Thu, Sep 3, 2015 at 5:09 AM, Steven Dortch wrote: > Fritz, I did a little research when I first became interested in Pekin > poles. people have tried VW engines but no one has been successful. there > is something about the higher rpm, and the weight that makes it an > inefficient combination. > > The A or T are actually pretty good if you ignore reliability. They make > their hp at a low rpm with lots of torque. A big prop and low speed make > that a happy combo. The old radials are somewhat similar. > > Blue skies > Steve D > On Sep 2, 2015 11:19 PM, "FritzW" wrote: > >> >> Hi All, >> >> Anyone know off the top of their head how much the Model A and a Model T >> conversions weigh? >> >> While I'm sitting around waiting for the mailman to bring my Air Camper >> and Sky Scout plans, I'm trying to get an idea of potential CG issues wi th >> a Lambert. >> >> ...I'm also trying to ignore a thought that keeps buzzing around my head : >> a VERY light (not ultralight) VW w/redrive powered Sky Scout. I'd hate t o >> be the the un-informed new guy with an impractical daydream so I'll keep it >> to myself [Wink] >> >> Looking at the F&G manuals, it looks like there's the potential to shed a >> pound or two off a Pietenpol. >> >> -------- >> I=C4=93sous Christos, Theou Yios, S=C5=8Dt=C4=93r >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446714#446714 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ========== >> br> enpol-List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"> >> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List >> ========== >> FORUMS - >> eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com >> ========== >> b Site - >> -Matt Dralle, List Admin. >> rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contributi on >> ========== >> >> >> >> * > =========== .matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List> =========== =========== om/contribution> =========== > > * > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Philips" <jack(at)bedfordlandings.com>
Subject: Ford Engine weights
Date: Sep 03, 2015
That is blasphemy. It is also sort of like teaching a pig to sing =93 it wastes your time and it annoys the pig. Why put a $20,000 engine on a $5,000 plane, that will still only go 75 mph without feeling like it=99s about to come apart? Jack Phillips NX899JP Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Cox Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2015 9:05 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Ford Engine weights For weight and power, does anyone ever consider the Rotax 912iS with Fuel Injection and FADEC or is that blasphemy? John Cox On Thu, Sep 3, 2015 at 5:09 AM, Steven Dortch > wrote: Fritz, I did a little research when I first became interested in Pekin poles. people have tried VW engines but no one has been successful. there is something about the higher rpm, and the weight that makes it an inefficient combination. The A or T are actually pretty good if you ignore reliability. They make their hp at a low rpm with lots of torque. A big prop and low speed make that a happy combo. The old radials are somewhat similar. Blue skies Steve D On Sep 2, 2015 11:19 PM, "FritzW" > wrote: > Hi All, Anyone know off the top of their head how much the Model A and a Model T conversions weigh? While I'm sitting around waiting for the mailman to bring my Air Camper and Sky Scout plans, I'm trying to get an idea of potential CG issues with a Lambert. ...I'm also trying to ignore a thought that keeps buzzing around my head: a VERY light (not ultralight) VW w/redrive powered Sky Scout. I'd hate to be the the un-informed new guy with an impractical daydream so I'll keep it to myself [Wink] Looking at the F&G manuals, it looks like there's the potential to shed a pound or two off a Pietenpol. -------- I=C4=93sous Christos, Theou Yios, S=C5=8Dt=C4=93r Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446714#446714 br> enpol-List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List FORUMS - eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com b Site - -Matt Dralle, List Admin. rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List tp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Ford Engine weights
From: Dan Yocum <yocum137(at)gmail.com>
Date: Sep 03, 2015
On 09/02/2015 11:13 PM, FritzW wrote: > ...I'm also trying to ignore a thought that keeps buzzing around my head: a VERY light (not ultralight) VW w/redrive powered Sky Scout. I'd hate to be the the un-informed new guy with an impractical daydream so I'll keep it to myself [Wink] Since you _didn't_ keep it to yourself, here's a reference to the UltraPiet: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RagWing_RW1_Ultra-Piet Of course, if you go this route, we won't help you since it's not a Pietenpol Air Camper, nor is it a GN-1 Aircamper. > > Looking at the F&G manuals, it looks like there's the potential to shed a pound or two off a Pietenpol. Before you even start, stop second guessing everything. Build to the plans and get started. Too many people on this list hem and haw and second guess this or that and develop diarrhea of the mouth or keyboard for months on end and they have no product to show for it. blah blah blah. Just start building. Worry about the engine in a couple years. -- Dan Yocum yocum137(at)gmail.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Ford Engine weights
From: "FritzW" <fwagoner(at)zianet.com>
Date: Sep 03, 2015
...gentleman, I bid you farewell [/quote] ...develop diarrhea of the mouth or keyboard for months on end and they have no product to show for it. blah blah blah. -- Dan Yocum yocum137(at)gmail.com[/quote] -------- Isous Christos, Theou Yios, Str Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446730#446730 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 03, 2015
Subject: Re: Ford Engine weights
From: Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com>
Fritz, remember, thick skin. There is a builder who is developing a jeep engine because he has it. Since I love both jeeps and piets I hope it works. By en large, high rpm engines either have to have reduction drives (added weight, cost and complexity) or run at reduced hp. The corvairs may make over 100 hp but it is at higher less efficient prop rpm. But they make plenty of good hp at the efficient rpms. There are reduction drives for corvairs to get all the hp. There are successful Subaru's with reduction drives. One is even turbo charged. In new Zealand some use a Toyota motor. Most common engines Small continentals. 65 to 100 hp. Corvairs. Model As. They are most proven. On Sep 3, 2015 9:05 AM, "Dan Yocum" wrote: > > > On 09/02/2015 11:13 PM, FritzW wrote: > > > > ...I'm also trying to ignore a thought that keeps buzzing around my > head: a VERY light (not ultralight) VW w/redrive powered Sky Scout. I'd > hate to be the the un-informed new guy with an impractical daydream so I'll > keep it to myself [Wink] > > Since you _didn't_ keep it to yourself, here's a reference to the > UltraPiet: > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RagWing_RW1_Ultra-Piet > > Of course, if you go this route, we won't help you since it's not a > Pietenpol Air Camper, nor is it a GN-1 Aircamper. > > > > > Looking at the F&G manuals, it looks like there's the potential to shed > a pound or two off a Pietenpol. > > Before you even start, stop second guessing everything. Build to the > plans and get started. Too many people on this list hem and haw and > second guess this or that and develop diarrhea of the mouth or keyboard > for months on end and they have no product to show for it. > > blah blah blah. > > Just start building. Worry about the engine in a couple years. > > > -- > Dan Yocum > yocum137(at)gmail.com > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 03, 2015
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Ford Engine weights
Fritz, it appears you have only been a member on this list for a few days. I hate to see new listers come and go so quickly, but I understand your decision. Feel free to contact me off list; if I maybe of assistance. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 03, 2015
Subject: VW weight-- VW or Model A for a Scout?
From: Timothy Willis <timwillis01(at)gmail.com>
=8B The aerovee VW engine is 160 lbs. plus oil and exhaust. http://www.aeroconversions.com/products/aerovee/index.html When comparing to the Model A or T, remember to add radiator, coolant and hoses. Big difference in torque as well as CG. Tim in central TX ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 03, 2015
Subject: Re: Ford Engine weights
From: Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com>
Come on guys. You just ran a guy off for asking questions. What is this list for if not to get answers? Even to simple questions. If basic beginner questions piss you off then perhaps you should not read the posting . Your delete button should work. This list is like a bunch of guys setting around drinking coffee. Everyone should have their say. Advice is offered and the listener has to figure out what he will do with the info. The advice to work instead of talk is good. Except when I am in a situation where I can't work, IE away from my shop. That is a good time to ask questions. I would have never considered latex paint except for this list. Sent The beechlist just successfully reset their rules on off topic conversations. OT conversations were getting too political so they established a list for political arguments. Blue skies, Steve D On Sep 3, 2015 11:31 AM, "Michael Perez" wrote: > Fritz, it appears you have only been a member on this list for a few days. > I hate to see new listers come and go so quickly, but I understand your > decision. Feel free to contact me off list; if I maybe of assistance. > > * > > > * > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Ford Engine weights
From: "FritzW" <fwagoner(at)zianet.com>
Date: Sep 03, 2015
I've been reminded about thick skins and bad apples and how valuable this forum is as a resource for Pietenpol information. ...dan yocum, The only question I asked was how much Ford motors weigh so I could start thinking about CG issues if I use a Lambert (a time honored Pietenpol engine option). The only keyboard diarrhea I see is coming from you. ...what a buzz-kill -------- Isous Christos, Theou Yios, Str Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446758#446758 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-LME0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Subject: video of a VW powered Pietenpol ground run
Date: Sep 03, 2015
DQpodHRwczovL3lvdXR1LmJlL1pkME90QTlEdS1rDQoNCg0KVGhpcyBpcyB0aGUgb25seSBWVyBw b3dlcmVkIFBpZXRlbnBvbCB0aGF0IEkgaGF2ZSBldmVyIHNlZW4gcnVubmluZyBhbmQgdGhlcmUg YXJlIG5vIHZpZGVvcyB0aGF0IEkga25vdyBvZiB3aGVyZSB0aGlzIG9uZQ0KaXMgZmx5aW5nIHNv IHRoYXQgYW5kIDUwIGNlbnRzIGlzIHdvcnRoIGFib3V0IDUwIGNlbnRzLg0KDQpJIG11c3Qgc2F5 IHRoYXQgdGhpcyDigJxQaWV0ZW5wb2zigJ0gICAoaXQgaGFzIGEgdmVyeSBsaWdodC13ZWlnaHQg bG9va2luZyBsYW5kaW5nIGdlYXIgd2hpY2ggaGFzIHRoZSBHTi0xIGF0dGFjaCBjb25maWd1cmF0 aW9uKSAgIGxvb2tzDQpsaWtlIGl0IHdhcyBidWlsdCB3aXRoIGV4dHJlbWUgYXR0ZW50aW9uIHRv IGtlZXBpbmcgaXQgbGlnaHQgYnV04oCm4oCmd2hvIGtub3dzIGlmIGl0IGhhcyBmbG93biBvciBo b3cgd2VsbC4NCg0KTWlrZSBDLg0KDQoNClBTLSBmb3IgbWUsIHBlcnNvbmFsbHksIHRoZSBiZXN0 IGJhbmcgZm9yIHRoZSBidWNrIGFuZCBtb3N0IHJlbGlhYmxlIGVuZ2luZSBmb3IgdGhlIFBpZXRl bnBvbCBpcyB0aGUgQS02NSB0aHJ1IDAtMjAwIHNlcmllcyBlbmdpbmVzLg0KSSBwZXJzb25hbGx5 IGxvdmUgdGhlIHNvdW5kIG9mIGEgTW9kZWwgQSBGb3JkIGVuZ2luZSBhbmQgSSB0aGluayB0aGUg Q29ydmFpciBlbmdpbmVzIHNvdW5kIGdyZWF0IGJ1dCBmb3IgbWUsIHBlcnNvbmFsbHnigKYuLkkg aGF2ZSAxOCB5ZWFycw0Kb2YgUGlldGVucG9sIGZseWluZyB0aW1lIGJlaGluZCBhbiBBLTY1IGFu ZCB0cnVzdCBpdCBtb3JlIHRoYW4gbW9zdCBvZiB0aGUgZG9ncyBJ4oCZdmUgaGFkIGFuZCBJIHJl YWxseSBsb3ZlIGFuZCB0cnVzdCBkb2dzLiAgICAoRXhjZXB0IHdoZW4NCnlvdSBsZWF2ZSBhIHBv cmsgY2hvcCBvbiB5b3VyIGRpbm5lciBwbGF0ZSBhbmQgcnVuIHRvIHRoZSBraXRjaGVuIGZvciBh IG5hcGtpbiBvciB0YWtlIGEgYmF0aHJvb20gYnJlYWvimLogISApDQo ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com>
Date: Sep 03, 2015
Subject: Re: video of a VW powered Pietenpol ground run
Yes. the LG looks similar to what I have on Mine. Piper cub gear a la Grega. However, It does look "spindley" Those tires are also pretLty small. That engine sounds good. I wonder if it ever flew. That plane looks good from the video. Blue skies, Steve D On Thu, Sep 3, 2015 at 5:59 PM, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-LME0)[Vantage Partners, LLC] wrote: > > > https://youtu.be/Zd0OtA9Du-k > > > This is the only VW powered Pietenpol that I have ever seen running and > there are no videos that I know of where this one > > is flying so that and 50 cents is worth about 50 cents. > > > I must say that this =9CPietenpol=9D (it has a very light-w eight looking > landing gear which has the GN-1 attach configuration) looks > > like it was built with extreme attention to keeping it light but who > knows if it has flown or how well. > > > Mike C. > > > PS- for me, personally, the best bang for the buck and most reliable > engine for the Pietenpol is the A-65 thru 0-200 series engines. > > I personally love the sound of a Model A Ford engine and I think the > Corvair engines sound great but for me, personally..I have 18 ye ars > > of Pietenpol flying time behind an A-65 and trust it more than most of th e > dogs I=99ve had and I really love and trust dogs. (Except when > > you leave a pork chop on your dinner plate and run to the kitchen for a > napkin or take a bathroom breakJ ! ) > -- Blue Skies, Steve D ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: VW weight-- VW or Model A for a Scout?
From: "FritzW" <fwagoner(at)zianet.com>
Date: Sep 03, 2015
I've got two RevMaster 2100D's gathering dust in the hangar. (they're for sale BTW) One's NOS with all the bells and whistles and weighs right at 200 lbs w/o oil, prop, exhaust. It's the wrong engine for a Pietenpol (no easy way to put a redrive on it) but the weights not so far off that you'd need a crazy long motor mount. -------- Isous Christos, Theou Yios, Str Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446768#446768 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com>
Date: Sep 03, 2015
Subject: Re: VW weight-- VW or Model A for a Scout?
It is interesting that they have not been very successful on Piets. The 1/2 VWs work on smaller planes (Ultra Piet) and the full VWs work on Soneris, KR2s Volksplanes, and a host of other low and slow planes. But they have not been successful on Piets or The Bower's fly baby. Two planes with similar performance envelopes (and lots of drag) Oh well, I have a Continental A65. Blue Skies, Steve D. On Thu, Sep 3, 2015 at 6:51 PM, FritzW wrote: > > I've got two RevMaster 2100D's gathering dust in the hangar. (they're for > sale BTW) One's NOS with all the bells and whistles and weighs right at 2 00 > lbs w/o oil, prop, exhaust. > > It's the wrong engine for a Pietenpol (no easy way to put a redrive on it ) > but the weights not so far off that you'd need a crazy long motor mount. > > -------- > I=C4=93sous Christos, Theou Yios, S=C5=8Dt=C4=93r > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446768#446768 > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > -- Blue Skies, Steve D ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com>
Date: Sep 03, 2015
Subject: Re: VW weight-- VW or Model A for a Scout?
It is interesting that they have not been very successful on Piets. The 1/2 VWs work on smaller planes (Ultra Piet) and the full VWs work on Soneris, KR2s Volksplanes, and a host of other low and slow planes. But they have not been successful on Piets or The Bower's fly baby. Two planes with similar performance envelopes (and lots of drag) Oh well, I have a Continental A65. Blue Skies, Steve D. On Thu, Sep 3, 2015 at 6:51 PM, FritzW wrote: > > I've got two RevMaster 2100D's gathering dust in the hangar. (they're for > sale BTW) One's NOS with all the bells and whistles and weighs right at 2 00 > lbs w/o oil, prop, exhaust. > > It's the wrong engine for a Pietenpol (no easy way to put a redrive on it ) > but the weights not so far off that you'd need a crazy long motor mount. > > -------- > I=C4=93sous Christos, Theou Yios, S=C5=8Dt=C4=93r > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446768#446768 > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > -- Blue Skies, Steve D ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 03, 2015
Subject: Re: video of a VW powered Pietenpol ground run
From: Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com>
They are e speaking Spanish. Could be anywhere. Blue Skies. On Sep 3, 2015 6:13 PM, "Steven Dortch" wrote: > Yes. the LG looks similar to what I have on Mine. Piper cub gear a la > Grega. However, It does look "spindley" Those tires are also pretLty smal l. > > That engine sounds good. I wonder if it ever flew. > > That plane looks good from the video. > > Blue skies, > Steve D > > On Thu, Sep 3, 2015 at 5:59 PM, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-LME0)[Vantage > Partners, LLC] wrote: > >> >> >> https://youtu.be/Zd0OtA9Du-k >> >> >> >> >> >> This is the only VW powered Pietenpol that I have ever seen running and >> there are no videos that I know of where this one >> >> is flying so that and 50 cents is worth about 50 cents. >> >> >> >> I must say that this =9CPietenpol=9D (it has a very light- weight looking >> landing gear which has the GN-1 attach configuration) looks >> >> like it was built with extreme attention to keeping it light but who >> knows if it has flown or how well. >> >> >> >> Mike C. >> >> >> >> >> >> PS- for me, personally, the best bang for the buck and most reliable >> engine for the Pietenpol is the A-65 thru 0-200 series engines. >> >> I personally love the sound of a Model A Ford engine and I think the >> Corvair engines sound great but for me, personally..I have 18 y ears >> >> of Pietenpol flying time behind an A-65 and trust it more than most of >> the dogs I=99ve had and I really love and trust dogs. (Except w hen >> >> you leave a pork chop on your dinner plate and run to the kitchen for a >> napkin or take a bathroom breakJ ! ) >> > > > -- > Blue Skies, > Steve D > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: 12th Annual Alternative Engine Round-Up and Experimental
Aircraft Fly-in
Date: Sep 03, 2015
>From Pat Panzera: =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A Friends=2C=0A =0A Saturday=2C September 26th is the big day. =0A =0A Last year we moved our annual event to Southern California=2C=0A to a beautiful non-towered airport that's easy to get to in French Valley - near=0A Temecula. The paved runway is wide and long for the fast-glass=2C and the=0A airport is low-and-slow friendly- being the home airport of EAA Chapter 127 9=2C=0A known for building a beautiful=2C Corvair-powered Pietenpol. =0A =0A The website has been updated with the most current=0A information=2C and a plea for you to RSVP if you are planning to attend the =0A casual dinner on Saturday night: http://www.contactmagazine.com/roundup.htm l =0A =0A Thanks! =0A =0A And I humbly apologize if you get this message more than=0A once. It just means that you and I are on multiple email lists together. =0A =0A Oh yeah! PLEASE forward this message to anyone you think=0A might be interested in=2C especially email groups that are about homebuilt =0A aircraft. =0A =0A Pat Panzera=0A =0A editor(at)contactmagazine.com =0A =0A Our Website: www.contactmagazine.com=0A =0A Our Facebook Page: https://www.facebook.com/www.CONTACTMagazine =0A Our Electric Aircraft FB Page: https://www.facebook.com/ElectricAircraft =0A Our Flying Car Page FB Page: https://www.facebook.com/Roadable.Aircraft.and .Flying.Cars =0A Our Classified Ad FB Page: https://www.facebook.com/groups/homebuilt.aircra ft.exchange=0A =0A =0A .=0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A __=2C_._=2C___=0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: video of a VW powered Pietenpol ground run
From: "MyrickPiet" <N762sierra(at)gmail.com>
Date: Sep 04, 2015
Did you notice he did not have it tied down and used only small chocks, AND it was pointed INTO the hanger. Then he increased power enough to worry another bystander to come over and perhaps hold on to it. Theres many tales of run-a-way planes. Take care all. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446783#446783 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: video of a VW powered Pietenpol ground run
From: "tkreiner" <tkreiner(at)gmail.com>
Date: Sep 04, 2015
After having rebuilt several hundred VW engines while putting myself thru engineering school, I have a few observations. The engine is identified as a 2000cc VW on the video banner, which implies it's a modified Type I, or 1600 cc with a big bore kit. Whoever built the engine used single port cylinder heads rather than the later dual port heads. For both torque and horsepower, this was unfortunate, as the engine just cant breathe as it would with dual port heads. The latest 1600 engines had an enlarged exhaust valve stem and a slightly improved port. These combined to improve reliability - paramount in an aircraft engine - be eliminating the dropped valve experience (broken exhaust valve, crashing piston and your day....). Mike: where did you find it, and can you determine what became of it? -------- Tom Kreiner Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446785#446785 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: flight planning kneeboard charts
From: "j_dunavin" <j_dunavin(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Sep 04, 2015
although it's not for official use, you could use https://skyvector.com/ and then print and cut it down to size. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446786#446786 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com>
Date: Sep 04, 2015
Subject: Re: Ford Engine weights
A good place to read about engines is at this link on the fly baby site. http://www.bowersflybaby.com/index.html#engines <http://www.bowersflybaby.com/tech/fenton.htm#crankcase_sealing_and_breathe r> There is also a link to a lot of info on small continentals. Blue Skies, Steve D. On Thu, Sep 3, 2015 at 4:44 PM, FritzW wrote: > > I've been reminded about thick skins and bad apples and how valuable this > forum is as a resource for Pietenpol information. > > ...dan yocum, > The only question I asked was how much Ford motors weigh so I could start > thinking about CG issues if I use a Lambert (a time honored Pietenpol > engine option). The only keyboard diarrhea I see is coming from you. > > ...what a buzz-kill > > -------- > I=C4=93sous Christos, Theou Yios, S=C5=8Dt=C4=93r > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446758#446758 > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > -- Blue Skies, Steve D ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Ford Engine weights
From: "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org>
Date: Sep 04, 2015
Fritz, I got the chance to fly the Model T powered Scout the Bernie built. Chris Essgard owned it back then and he had perform the rebuild of it. When Chris rebuilt it he replaced a lot of steel engine parts with aluminum parts. This made for a tail heavy plane. I flew it that way. It didn't fly very well being so tail heavy and only 20 HP. That said. I also got to flt the A powered scout that Bernie built. The CG was correct and had more than twice the HP. That airplane was an absolute ball to fly. It was like a little sports car. So be careful when trying to make it too light. Light usually comes at some cost. I like having the extra HP, even if it means a couple of extra pounds. I know that where you live you can have some higher Density Alt. The extra HP would help you there as well. My three cents, -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446789#446789 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com>
Date: Sep 04, 2015
Subject: Re: Ford Engine weights
Scott, I am a self trained expert on losing weight. On my 1948 Vtail Bonanza I have shed almost 100 pounds. I pulled old wires, an old vacuum autopilot, scraped and cleaned caked oil and sludge out of the belly, pulled old Avionics, replaced too thick floorboards with correct thickness, Pulled out the thick carpet and put in thin and lightweight airliner "vinyl" flooring, and replaced long screws with short ones. I also threw the joker out of the deck of cards, You never use it. In my Pietenpol rebuild, I have tried to make everything good enough and as light as is reasonable. During the rebuild I was a demon on anything behind the rear cockpit. on the Engine, I did not worry as much. Piets have a tail heavy reputation that I understand is well deserved. One tool I have to adjust weight and balance is the lawnmower battery (about 7 pounds). It is a total loss system, I have to charge it on the ground. It is to power my radio, intercom, and handheld GPS (and anything that can be plugged into a cigarette lighter.) I put it inside the front instrument panel as far forward as possible. If the CG is Good then it stays, If I find it tail heavy, I can move it about 5 inches forward on the front side of the firewall. If it is nose heavy, I can move it to the Pilot instrument panel or even behind the pilot seat. I also have a center section wing tank and a Piper cub style tank. The wing tank is in the center of the CG. the Cub tank is in front of the Passenger. It can also be used for ballast adjustment, but if used will change the CG in flight. Here's to hoping I don't have a CG problem. I have yet to do a new weight and balance. Blue Skies, Steve D On Fri, Sep 4, 2015 at 10:00 AM, AircamperN11MS wrote: > Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org> > > Fritz, > > I got the chance to fly the Model T powered Scout the Bernie built. Chris > Essgard owned it back then and he had perform the rebuild of it. When > Chris rebuilt it he replaced a lot of steel engine parts with aluminum > parts. This made for a tail heavy plane. I flew it that way. It didn't > fly very well being so tail heavy and only 20 HP. That said. I also got > to flt the A powered scout that Bernie built. The CG was correct and had > more than twice the HP. That airplane was an absolute ball to fly. It was > like a little sports car. So be careful when trying to make it too light. > Light usually comes at some cost. I like having the extra HP, even if it > means a couple of extra pounds. I know that where you live you can have > some higher Density Alt. The extra HP would help you there as well. > > My three cents, > > -------- > Scott Liefeld > Flying N11MS since March 1972 > Steel Tube > C-85-12 > Wire Wheels > Brodhead in 1996 > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446789#446789 > > -- Blue Skies, Steve D ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Ford Engine weights
From: "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org>
Date: Sep 04, 2015
Steve, I sounds like you are doing all the right things. I too have a fuel system as described by you. I have 10 in the nose and 12.5 in the center section. I only use the CC tank when I am on cross country flights. It's nice to have the extra fuel. Good luck with your W&B. Congratulations on the Bonanza weight loss. Cheers, -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446792#446792 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Ford Engine weights
From: "FritzW" <fwagoner(at)zianet.com>
Date: Sep 05, 2015
My plans showed up last night! (Aircamper with supplement and 3 pice wing and the Sky Scout plans). Hopefully we can weigh the Lambert and the Warner today to see where were at. Like Scott mentioned I fly out of a pretty high altitude field that gets very hot in the summer, 9,000' density altitude is pretty common. So keeping it light is important. ...and before I get a bunch of flack for committing the heresy of looking for opportunities to shed a few pounds on my high DA Pietenpol. I'm not a complete neophyte. If I build this airplane, It'll be my 6th homebuilt (two in the hangar, one just on the gear, one one the building table and one still on the drawing board) -------- Isous Christos, Theou Yios, Str Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446823#446823 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com>
Date: Sep 05, 2015
Subject: Re: Ford Engine weights
Fritz, Have you thought about fabrics? My plane was covered before I bought it. . but on every patch, and when I recovered the horizontal Stab, after some repairs. , I used a Dacron fabric that is "uncertified" and is 1.8oz. Not much weight savings, but every gram counts. I would look at Oratex precolored fabrics. Light and you save on painting. Regarding altitude compensation. I remember at least one builder added a couple of feet to his wings. Nothing radical, but I think a foot or so on each wing. Also, I was almost executed for saying this on another list, but I don't learn. What about a nitrous Oxide system to compensate for density altitude? Not enough to blow a jug, but enough to make the engine think it is at sea level. Ducking and running. Steve D On Sat, Sep 5, 2015 at 10:27 AM, FritzW wrote: > > My plans showed up last night! (Aircamper with supplement and 3 pice wing > and the Sky Scout plans). Hopefully we can weigh the Lambert and the Warn er > today to see where were at. > > Like Scott mentioned I fly out of a pretty high altitude field that gets > very hot in the summer, 9,000' density altitude is pretty common. So > keeping it light is important. > > ...and before I get a bunch of flack for committing the heresy of looking > for opportunities to shed a few pounds on my high DA Pietenpol. I'm not a > complete neophyte. If I build this airplane, It'll be my 6th homebuilt (t wo > in the hangar, one just on the gear, one one the building table and one > still on the drawing board) > > -------- > I=C4=93sous Christos, Theou Yios, S=C5=8Dt=C4=93r > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446823#446823 > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > -- Blue Skies, Steve D ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 05, 2015
Subject: What's up Doc?
From: Donald A Mosher <thepietshop(at)gmail.com>
In response to some =9CWhat=99s up with Doc?=9D inquiries - No, I have not left the premises. After being publisher of the Brodhead Pietenpol Association newsletter for over six years (Dee and I), I had some catching up to do on other tasks. I lurked a bit on the Matronics list (and liked it.) Casting about to see how I might be of service to the Piet community, I decided to supply Air Camper plans and also updates and enhancements that I have cataloged. Although Don Pietenpol was an inspiration to all of us, I feel that with modern print facilities, I can supply complete plans including the necessary updates at a practical price. Except for the BPA newsletters, there has never really been a single source for information on updates as they came along over the years. I am cataloging all those thirty-some years of contemporary and pertinent information from builders and owners who came up with good (and maybe not so good) updates and enhancements. In addition I have archived a roomful of Piet history (airplanes, people, plans) that I am assembling. Check in to my slowly emerging website for particulars. I expect that I will be on Matt=99s wonderful Matronics website from time to time. I also welcome any personal messages from old friends. Like the Air Camper, I =99m =9Cstill going after all these years.=9D This note is not intended to sell anything, only to let people know where I am and what I am doing in the fascinating and intriguing Piet community. Doc Mosher Website*: pietenpolplansplus.com <http://pietenpolplansplus.com> * (Pietenpol Plans Plus) E-Mail: *thepietshop.com <http://thepietshop.com> * (The Piet Shop) ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Ford Engine weights
From: "FritzW" <fwagoner(at)zianet.com>
Date: Sep 05, 2015
I think I'd go with 2.8 oz. just because it'll stand up better to rock dings and hangar rash. Most of the fun places to fly around here have dirt strips. And Oratex is nice but it ain't cheap. I don't know about nitrous oxide on an 80 year old engine. It would be like putting a miniskirt on your grandma. Even if it fit it would still be wrong. ;) I took some pictures of the engine candidates today, I'll post them as soon as I transfer them off my phone. -------- Isous Christos, Theou Yios, Str Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446832#446832 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com>
Date: Sep 05, 2015
Subject: Re: Ford Engine weights
Where are you flying out of? Steve D On Sat, Sep 5, 2015 at 3:28 PM, FritzW wrote: > > I think I'd go with 2.8 oz. just because it'll stand up better to rock > dings and hangar rash. Most of the fun places to fly around here have dir t > strips. And Oratex is nice but it ain't cheap. > > I don't know about nitrous oxide on an 80 year old engine. It would be > like putting a miniskirt on your grandma. Even if it fit it would still b e > wrong. ;) > > I took some pictures of the engine candidates today, I'll post them as > soon as I transfer them off my phone. > > -------- > I=C4=93sous Christos, Theou Yios, S=C5=8Dt=C4=93r > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446832#446832 > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > -- Blue Skies, Steve D ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Lamberts for a Piet
From: "FritzW" <fwagoner(at)zianet.com>
Date: Sep 05, 2015
We didn't get a chance to weigh the engines today. We're going to have to move a bunch of stuff out of the way to make room for the scales. But I did take some pictures. These all belong to a friend of mine who's going to handle the engine and steel parts for the project. I'll be the wood guy. ...I think I have the easy job ;) *it looks like these pictures are going in reverse order, must be a matronics thing -------- Isous Christos, Theou Yios, Str Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446835#446835 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/props_793.jpeg http://forums.matronics.com//files/warner_106.jpeg http://forums.matronics.com//files/lycoming_and_aeronca_181.jpeg http://forums.matronics.com//files/lambert_open_rocker_208.jpeg http://forums.matronics.com//files/lambert_209.jpeg ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 05, 2015
Subject: OT Pancho Barnes movie
From: Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com>
I am watching the Pancho Barnes movie made in 1988. Lots of great airplanes. mystery travelairs, Ryan STAs, and at least one D18 (Beech content). Awesome. I recommend it. Blue skies Steve D ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 06, 2015
From: jim hyde <jnl96(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: OT Pancho Barnes movie
filmed at hartlee field denton, tx and pappy spinks field ft worth On Saturday, September 5, 2015 7:56 PM, Steven Dortch @gmail.com> wrote: I am watching the Pancho Barnes movie made in 1988. Lots of great airplane s. mystery travelairs, Ryan STAs,=C2- and at least one D18=C2- (Beech c ontent).Awesome. I recommend it.Blue skies Steve D ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Lamberts for a Piet
From: "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org>
Date: Sep 05, 2015
Oops, sorry guys, I got drool all over these pictures. Fritz, there is or should be a Suburu powered Piet at Socorro airport. It has been there since the early 90's. It flies a lot. It could be worth the trip up there just to look at it. -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446840#446840 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: What's up Doc?
From: "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org>
Date: Sep 05, 2015
Hi Doc. Good to hear from you. Look through the archives for the Steel tube tail drawings. One of the guys made some CAD drawings from my pencil drawings I provided him. The deal is that they are not for sale. They are free to anyone who wants to use this very proven set of tail feathers. Go ahead and add them to your resources and supply them at no charge to anyone who wants them. I have no problems if you charge for the materials and shipping so it doesn't cost you anything for your efforts. If you find them here let me know. I have them on my computer at work. Wow, I just saw a "Burro" walking down the street. Cheers, -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446842#446842 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Lamberts for a Piet
From: "FritzW" <fwagoner(at)zianet.com>
Date: Sep 05, 2015
There was one up there somewhere around Socorro that, I thought, had a Pinto engine in it. ...maybe it was a Sube. I'm down in Las Cruces, we consider Socorro to be southern Canada ;) -------- Isous Christos, Theou Yios, Str Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446844#446844 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: What's up Doc?
From: Amsafetyc <amsafetyc(at)aol.com>
Date: Sep 06, 2015
Hey Doc, Glad to hear your latest project plans for the update. Sounds like you're do ing well. Once I get myself back together I'm looking forward to Brodhead 20 16. Be good to see you and Dee again. Not to mention all my Piet builder fri ends and family. So true the words " you come to Brodhead the first time to see the airplanes and you keep coming back to see your friends"! Stay well and keep up the good work. My best to all John Recine NX895JR A project in slow motion process Sent from my iPhone > On Sep 5, 2015, at 2:59 PM, Donald A Mosher wrote: > > In response to some =9CWhat=99s up with Doc?=9D inquirie s - No, I have not left the premises. After being publisher of the Brodhead Pietenpol Association newsletter for over six years (Dee and I), I had some catching up to do on other tasks. I lurked a bit on the Matronics list (and liked it.) > > > > Casting about to see how I might be of service to the Piet community, I de cided to supply Air Camper plans and also updates and enhancements that I ha ve cataloged. Although Don Pietenpol was an inspiration to all of us, I fee l that with modern print facilities, I can supply complete plans including t he necessary updates at a practical price. > > > > Except for the BPA newsletters, there has never really been a single sourc e for information on updates as they came along over the years. I am catalog ing all those thirty-some years of contemporary and pertinent information fr om builders and owners who came up with good (and maybe not so good) updates and enhancements. In addition I have archived a roomful of Piet history ( airplanes, people, plans) that I am assembling. > > > > Check in to my slowly emerging website for particulars. I expect that I w ill be on Matt=99s wonderful Matronics website from time to time. I a lso welcome any personal messages from old friends. Like the Air Camper, I =99m =9Cstill going after all these years.=9D > > > > This note is not intended to sell anything, only to let people know where I am and what I am doing in the fascinating and intriguing Piet community. > > > > Doc Mosher > > > > Website: pietenpolplansplus.com (Pietenpol Plans Plus) > > E-Mail: thepietshop.com (The Piet Shop) > > > 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: BPA Newsletter
From: "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Sep 06, 2015
Well, I finally got around to reading my Newsletter. The red letters on the back, by the address label, said it was my last issue and I didn't think I would be renewing but I changed my mind. It was sure worth the $20 subscription cost just to read the articles and see the photos. Thanks ever so much for the story on the J-2 mishap, the aircraft maintenance tips, and everything else in the current issue. I sure didn't think I would care to read an article about a single-blade prop on a J-2 taking a dive into some trees, but the story is very well written and the lessons learned are invaluable. Jack's article on maintenance is likewise very well written and illustrated and any builder could learn from it and apply some great ideas. Frank Pavliga's article on reinforcing wooden landing gear is another piece that made the Newsletter worth subscribing to. It's all good. Most of all, I guess, it's just good to see more Piets. the centerfold airplane is a beauty. If you're not a subscriber, I would encourage you to subscribe if for nothing else but the centerfold. She has long sleek legs, a radiant shine, trim waist, shapely in front, and if you could hear her voice she would probably ask "why don't you come up and see me sometime?" ;o) -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446859#446859 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: BPA Newsletter
From: John Hofmann <jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc.com>
Date: Sep 07, 2015
Thanks Oscar, One thing on the newsletter. I found out the printer may have marked people with last issue by mistake. If you got a last issue red stamp and your subscription date on the label is anything after 10/2014 it is not your last issue. I will do everything in my power to make sure that does not happen again. On target for the next issue to be out late this month. Best, -john- John Hofmann Vice-President, IT and Production The Rees Group, Inc. 2424 American Lane Madison, WI 53704 Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150 Fax: 608.443.2474 Email: jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc.com > On Sep 6, 2015, at 11:46 PM, taildrags wrote: > > > Well, I finally got around to reading my Newsletter. The red letters on the back, by the address label, said it was my last issue and I didn't think I would be renewing but I changed my mind. It was sure worth the $20 subscription cost just to read the articles and see the photos. Thanks ever so much for the story on the J-2 mishap, the aircraft maintenance tips, and everything else in the current issue. I sure didn't think I would care to read an article about a single-blade prop on a J-2 taking a dive into some trees, but the story is very well written and the lessons learned are invaluable. Jack's article on maintenance is likewise very well written and illustrated and any builder could learn from it and apply some great ideas. Frank Pavliga's article on reinforcing wooden landing gear is another piece that made the Newsletter worth subscribing to. It's all good. > > Most of all, I guess, it's just good to see more Piets. the centerfold airplane is a beauty. If you're not a subscriber, I would encourage you to subscribe if for nothing else but the centerfold. She has long sleek legs, a radiant shine, trim waist, shapely in front, and if you could hear her voice she would probably ask "why don't you come up and see me sometime?" ;o) > > -------- > Oscar Zuniga > Medford, OR > Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" > A75 power > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446859#446859 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Argh! Can't Decide Between a Piet or Tiger Moth Replica
From: "BritishJim" <james(at)pieceofcakepr.com>
Date: Sep 07, 2015
I'm stuck in a dilemma here, if anyone can sway me. Looking at building either a Piet or the Fisher R-80 Tiger Moth. I've never built before...anything...and wonder if the Piet is a bit beyond my abilities. Something attracts me about the formed/molded components in the Fisher kit. Saying that, the final cost of a Piet will be 50% less (Fisher kit is 16k). Swings and roundabouts, right? Can anyone push me over either of the lines? I know it's ultimately my decision - but I'm really stuck on this one! -------- Your nose is high; you're in the sky. The other way around; you'll hit the ground.... Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446871#446871 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 07, 2015
Subject: Re: Argh! Can't Decide Between a Piet or Tiger Moth Replica
From: Matt Paxton <woodflier(at)aol.com>
I built a Piet, and I am helping guy who bought a partially completed Fisher R-80 Tiger Moth. It will be a pretty airplane when/if finished. It looks to be as much work as the Piet, and I don't think there is the same depth of a builder community with the R-80. You can't beat the Piet family - OK, sometimes dysfunctional, occasionally squabbling, but ultimately a great group of people. Matt Paxton NX629ML Started 1999 - First flight 2011. 228 hours total time. Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE Tablet On Sep 7, 2015 8:21 PM, BritishJim wrote: > > > I'm stuck in a dilemma here, if anyone can sway me. > > Looking at building either a Piet or the Fisher R-80 Tiger Moth. I've never built before...anything...and wonder if the Piet is a bit beyond my abilities. Something attracts me about the formed/molded components in the Fisher kit. > > Saying that, the final cost of a Piet will be 50% less (Fisher kit is 16k). Swings and roundabouts, right? > > Can anyone push me over either of the lines? I know it's ultimately my decision - but I'm really stuck on this one! > > -------- > Your nose is high; you're in the sky. The other way around; you'll hit the ground.... > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446871#446871 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Argh! Can't Decide Between a Piet or Tiger Moth Replica
From: Scott Knowlton <flyingscott_k(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Sep 07, 2015
Jim If you want to build a plane as quick as possible get a kit. The parts are pre-manufactured and you are an assembler. If you love making things the Pietenpol is simply a very long list of projects. Some of the parts you make - unless you already have acquired building skills - you will not use and make a second time until you or the people you have giving you guidance decide that it is an acceptable part. For some this process brings tremendous satisfaction and fulfillment. For others it is a very frustrating journey. Only you know what type of person you are. Scott Knowlton Sent from my iPhone > On Sep 7, 2015, at 8:25 PM, "BritishJim" wrote: > > > I'm stuck in a dilemma here, if anyone can sway me. > > Looking at building either a Piet or the Fisher R-80 Tiger Moth. I've never built before...anything...and wonder if the Piet is a bit beyond my abilities. Something attracts me about the formed/molded components in the Fisher kit. > > Saying that, the final cost of a Piet will be 50% less (Fisher kit is 16k). Swings and roundabouts, right? > > Can anyone push me over either of the lines? I know it's ultimately my decision - but I'm really stuck on this one! > > -------- > Your nose is high; you're in the sky. The other way around; you'll hit the ground.... > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446871#446871 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com>
Date: Sep 07, 2015
Subject: Re: Argh! Can't Decide Between a Piet or Tiger Moth Replica
British Jim, You described your options. The Piet is plans built and cheaper. The Fisher Tiger Moth is a Kit and more expensive. Fisher says it only takes 600 hours to build a Tiger moth. But beware, Manufacturers often understate the time to build. Or it is for a first time builder who happens to be a carpenter with a full woodshop. Many Pietenpols have been completed from plans. I have never seen a Fisher Tiger Moth. (Of course, even more RVs have been completed from plans.) You makes your decisions, you takes your chances. Six one way, half a dozen the other. Blue Skies, Steve D On Mon, Sep 7, 2015 at 7:21 PM, BritishJim wrote: > james(at)pieceofcakepr.com> > > I'm stuck in a dilemma here, if anyone can sway me. > > Looking at building either a Piet or the Fisher R-80 Tiger Moth. I've > never built before...anything...and wonder if the Piet is a bit beyond my > abilities. Something attracts me about the formed/molded components in the > Fisher kit. > > Saying that, the final cost of a Piet will be 50% less (Fisher kit is > 16k). Swings and roundabouts, right? > > Can anyone push me over either of the lines? I know it's ultimately my > decision - but I'm really stuck on this one! > > -------- > Your nose is high; you're in the sky. The other way around; you'll hit the > ground.... > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446871#446871 > > -- Blue Skies, Steve D ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 08, 2015
From: Jim Boyer <boyerjrb(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Argh! Can't Decide Between a Piet or Tiger Moth Replica
Hi there British Jim, I don't know if you have to rib stitch the Fisher Moth replica but I just f inished my Piet wings and having 70+ year old eyes it was a chore to rib st itch 30 ribs; 6 every 2.5 inches (in prop blast) and 24 every 3.5 inches. I t was a whole lot of rib stitches!Plus building all the ribs for 4 wings an d the many cables, struts, etc. Biplanes look cool but let some work-aholic (sp) build them. The PIet will be a lot easier to put inand out of a hangar; fewer wings to get hangar rash!!! Good looking airplane though. Cheers, Jim B. =C2- ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Argh! Can't Decide Between a Piet or Tiger Moth Replica
From: "womenfly2" <Love2Fly.KAP(at)gmail.com>
Date: Sep 08, 2015
Fisher D82 Moth replica ... but that's just me after building a Piet. Two wings are always awesome. WF2 -------- Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446879#446879 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douwe(at)douwestudios.com>
Subject: Blakesburg adventure
Date: Sep 08, 2015
Hey all, Thought I'd share my biggest "RE-PIET" adventure to date. Flew to the Antique Aircraft Association fly-in at Blakesburg, Iowa over the weekend. 400 miles each way, over 14 hours in the saddle counting a few dawn patrols and one absolutely crazy evening flight being buzzed by incredibly beautiful antiques with pilots who seem to have forgotten all traffic pattern rules in their desire to "make a splash". Was really an awesome experience. Very friendly people, great "grass-roots" feeling with flying actually encouraged! The WX was hot but perfect the whole time. About 350 beautiful antiques with three Piets and a Grega which had supposedly been north of the arctic circle. The strip there takes some getting used to. They kind of push you to land right at the beginning, per-normal except that it uphill and sloped sideways. Once I started landing past that part, things were fine. I really love flying over all that farmland with emergency landing sites as far as the eye can see. I also really like flying behind a solid, proven engine up front as it just chugs along without a hiccup. Keep building!! Douwe ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 08, 2015
Subject: Re: Argh! Can't Decide Between a Piet or Tiger Moth Replica
From: "Charles N. Campbell" <charlescampbell1924(at)gmail.com>
I love my Piet, even though it's not finished yet. I truly believe that you will gain more by building the Piet from plans than by building a kit. I don't really know anything about the Tiger Moth kit but I believe you will gain more from the Piet. One thing though, if you're in a hurry to fly, the kit route would probably get you in the air sooner. (I've never built from a kit, but I did rebuild a Piper Tripacer once.) Either way, there is going to be a lot of work involved. Chuck On Mon, Sep 7, 2015 at 8:21 PM, BritishJim wrote: > james(at)pieceofcakepr.com> > > I'm stuck in a dilemma here, if anyone can sway me. > > Looking at building either a Piet or the Fisher R-80 Tiger Moth. I've > never built before...anything...and wonder if the Piet is a bit beyond my > abilities. Something attracts me about the formed/molded components in the > Fisher kit. > > Saying that, the final cost of a Piet will be 50% less (Fisher kit is > 16k). Swings and roundabouts, right? > > Can anyone push me over either of the lines? I know it's ultimately my > decision - but I'm really stuck on this one! > > -------- > Your nose is high; you're in the sky. The other way around; you'll hit the > ground.... > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446871#446871 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 08, 2015
Subject: Re: Argh! Can't Decide Between a Piet or Tiger Moth Replica
From: Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com>
Ah Chuck, you bought the Piper tripacer kit. I bought a 1948 vtail Bonanza kit. It comes assembled and you disassemble it, replace parts and reassemble it. Blue skies, Steve D On Sep 8, 2015 10:48 AM, "Charles N. Campbell" < charlescampbell1924(at)gmail.com> wrote: > I love my Piet, even though it's not finished yet. I truly believe that > you will gain more by building the Piet from plans than by building a kit. > I don't really know anything about the Tiger Moth kit but I believe you > will gain more from the Piet. One thing though, if you're in a hurry to > fly, the kit route would probably get you in the air sooner. (I've never > built from a kit, but I did rebuild a Piper Tripacer once.) Either way, > there is going to be a lot of work involved. Chuck > > On Mon, Sep 7, 2015 at 8:21 PM, BritishJim > wrote: > >> james(at)pieceofcakepr.com> >> >> I'm stuck in a dilemma here, if anyone can sway me. >> >> Looking at building either a Piet or the Fisher R-80 Tiger Moth. I've >> never built before...anything...and wonder if the Piet is a bit beyond my >> abilities. Something attracts me about the formed/molded components in the >> Fisher kit. >> >> Saying that, the final cost of a Piet will be 50% less (Fisher kit is >> 16k). Swings and roundabouts, right? >> >> Can anyone push me over either of the lines? I know it's ultimately my >> decision - but I'm really stuck on this one! >> >> -------- >> Your nose is high; you're in the sky. The other way around; you'll hit >> the ground.... >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446871#446871 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ========== >> br> enpol-List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"> >> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List >> ========== >> FORUMS - >> eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com >> ========== >> b Site - >> -Matt Dralle, List Admin. >> rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> ========== >> >> >> >> > * > > > * > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ray Krause <raykrause(at)frontiernet.net>
Subject: Re: Blakesburg adventure
Date: Sep 08, 2015
Thanks, Douwe! Nice report. It's so great to see someone really using their Piet perfect summer enjoyment. Ray Krause Sent from my iPad > On Sep 8, 2015, at 8:23 AM, Douwe Blumberg wrote: > > Hey all, > > Thought I'd share my biggest "RE-PIET" adventure to date. > > Flew to the Antique Aircraft Association fly-in at Blakesburg, Iowa over the > weekend. 400 miles each way, over 14 hours in the saddle counting a few > dawn patrols and one absolutely crazy evening flight being buzzed by > incredibly beautiful antiques with pilots who seem to have forgotten all > traffic pattern rules in their desire to "make a splash". > > Was really an awesome experience. Very friendly people, great "grass-roots" > feeling with flying actually encouraged! The WX was hot but perfect the > whole time. About 350 beautiful antiques with three Piets and a Grega which > had supposedly been north of the arctic circle. > > The strip there takes some getting used to. They kind of push you to land > right at the beginning, per-normal except that it uphill and sloped > sideways. Once I started landing past that part, things were fine. > > I really love flying over all that farmland with emergency landing sites as > far as the eye can see. I also really like flying behind a solid, proven > engine up front as it just chugs along without a hiccup. > > Keep building!! > > Douwe > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Barry Davis" <bed(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Blakesburg adventure
Date: Sep 08, 2015
KEEP BUILDING - This is what it's all about Thanks Douwe for the great pics Barry Davis NX973BP -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Douwe Blumberg Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2015 11:24 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Blakesburg adventure Hey all, Thought I'd share my biggest "RE-PIET" adventure to date. Flew to the Antique Aircraft Association fly-in at Blakesburg, Iowa over the weekend. 400 miles each way, over 14 hours in the saddle counting a few dawn patrols and one absolutely crazy evening flight being buzzed by incredibly beautiful antiques with pilots who seem to have forgotten all traffic pattern rules in their desire to "make a splash". Was really an awesome experience. Very friendly people, great "grass-roots" feeling with flying actually encouraged! The WX was hot but perfect the whole time. About 350 beautiful antiques with three Piets and a Grega which had supposedly been north of the arctic circle. The strip there takes some getting used to. They kind of push you to land right at the beginning, per-normal except that it uphill and sloped sideways. Once I started landing past that part, things were fine. I really love flying over all that farmland with emergency landing sites as far as the eye can see. I also really like flying behind a solid, proven engine up front as it just chugs along without a hiccup. Keep building!! Douwe ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Textor" <jack(at)textors.com>
Subject: Blakesburg adventure
Date: Sep 08, 2015
Great to see you Douwe! -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Douwe Blumberg Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2015 10:24 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Blakesburg adventure Hey all, Thought I'd share my biggest "RE-PIET" adventure to date. Flew to the Antique Aircraft Association fly-in at Blakesburg, Iowa over the weekend. 400 miles each way, over 14 hours in the saddle counting a few dawn patrols and one absolutely crazy evening flight being buzzed by incredibly beautiful antiques with pilots who seem to have forgotten all traffic pattern rules in their desire to "make a splash". Was really an awesome experience. Very friendly people, great "grass-roots" feeling with flying actually encouraged! The WX was hot but perfect the whole time. About 350 beautiful antiques with three Piets and a Grega which had supposedly been north of the arctic circle. The strip there takes some getting used to. They kind of push you to land right at the beginning, per-normal except that it uphill and sloped sideways. Once I started landing past that part, things were fine. I really love flying over all that farmland with emergency landing sites as far as the eye can see. I also really like flying behind a solid, proven engine up front as it just chugs along without a hiccup. Keep building!! Douwe ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: The quiet after a good day in the shop.....
From: "aerocarjake" <flight.jake(at)gmail.com>
Date: Sep 08, 2015
Hello good Piet-ple, Had a nice day in the workshop on Saturday - working on the center-section and fitting/positioning the fuel tank. After a long, but really fine day, I put everything away and took in the serene setting of the workshop. It's about the journey.......!! Jake -------- Jake Schultz - curator, Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446898#446898 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/2015_09_06_21_44_29_188.png ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 08, 2015
Subject: Re: Argh! Can't Decide Between a Piet or Tiger Moth Replica
From: "Charles N. Campbell" <charlescampbell1924(at)gmail.com>
Man! But it was an OLD - WORN OUT kit!!! On Tue, Sep 8, 2015 at 11:54 AM, Steven Dortch wrote: > Ah Chuck, you bought the Piper tripacer kit. I bought a 1948 vtail Bonanza > kit. It comes assembled and you disassemble it, replace parts and > reassemble it. > > Blue skies, > Steve D > On Sep 8, 2015 10:48 AM, "Charles N. Campbell" < > charlescampbell1924(at)gmail.com> wrote: > >> I love my Piet, even though it's not finished yet. I truly believe that >> you will gain more by building the Piet from plans than by building a kit. >> I don't really know anything about the Tiger Moth kit but I believe you >> will gain more from the Piet. One thing though, if you're in a hurry to >> fly, the kit route would probably get you in the air sooner. (I've never >> built from a kit, but I did rebuild a Piper Tripacer once.) Either way, >> there is going to be a lot of work involved. Chuck >> >> On Mon, Sep 7, 2015 at 8:21 PM, BritishJim >> wrote: >> >>> james(at)pieceofcakepr.com> >>> >>> I'm stuck in a dilemma here, if anyone can sway me. >>> >>> Looking at building either a Piet or the Fisher R-80 Tiger Moth. I've >>> never built before...anything...and wonder if the Piet is a bit beyond my >>> abilities. Something attracts me about the formed/molded components in the >>> Fisher kit. >>> >>> Saying that, the final cost of a Piet will be 50% less (Fisher kit is >>> 16k). Swings and roundabouts, right? >>> >>> Can anyone push me over either of the lines? I know it's ultimately my >>> decision - but I'm really stuck on this one! >>> >>> -------- >>> Your nose is high; you're in the sky. The other way around; you'll hit >>> the ground.... >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Read this topic online here: >>> >>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446871#446871 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ========== >>> br> enpol-List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"> >>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List >>> ========== >>> FORUMS - >>> eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com >>> ========== >>> b Site - >>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin. >>> rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >>> ========== >>> >>> >>> >>> >> * >> >> " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List >> tp://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com> >> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> >> * >> >> * > > > * > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 08, 2015
Subject: Re: Argh! Can't Decide Between a Piet or Tiger Moth Replica
From: Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com>
We're some of the parts made from unobtanium? And priced accordingly? I learned the value of "owner manufactured parts" Don't ever discount the value of experimental planes and parts. Unless I have to rent my plane to someone or instruct in it, The Bonanza will be my last certified plane. I love the plane, but keeping it flying can be frustrating. Blue Skies, Steve D On Sep 8, 2015 6:15 PM, "Charles N. Campbell" wrote: Man! But it was an OLD - WORN OUT kit!!! On Tue, Sep 8, 2015 at 11:54 AM, Steven Dortch wrote: > Ah Chuck, you bought the Piper tripacer kit. I bought a 1948 vtail Bonanza > kit. It comes assembled and you disassemble it, replace parts and > reassemble it. > > Blue skies, > Steve D > On Sep 8, 2015 10:48 AM, "Charles N. Campbell" < > charlescampbell1924(at)gmail.com> wrote: > >> I love my Piet, even though it's not finished yet. I truly believe that >> you will gain more by building the Piet from plans than by building a kit. >> I don't really know anything about the Tiger Moth kit but I believe you >> will gain more from the Piet. One thing though, if you're in a hurry to >> fly, the kit route would probably get you in the air sooner. (I've never >> built from a kit, but I did rebuild a Piper Tripacer once.) Either way, >> there is going to be a lot of work involved. Chuck >> >> On Mon, Sep 7, 2015 at 8:21 PM, BritishJim >> wrote: >> >>> james(at)pieceofcakepr.com> >>> >>> I'm stuck in a dilemma here, if anyone can sway me. >>> >>> Looking at building either a Piet or the Fisher R-80 Tiger Moth. I've >>> never built before...anything...and wonder if the Piet is a bit beyond my >>> abilities. Something attracts me about the formed/molded components in the >>> Fisher kit. >>> >>> Saying that, the final cost of a Piet will be 50% less (Fisher kit is >>> 16k). Swings and roundabouts, right? >>> >>> Can anyone push me over either of the lines? I know it's ultimately my >>> decision - but I'm really stuck on this one! >>> >>> -------- >>> Your nose is high; you're in the sky. The other way around; you'll hit >>> the ground.... >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Read this topic online here: >>> >>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446871#446871 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ========== >>> br> enpol-List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"> >>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List >>> ========== >>> FORUMS - >>> eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com >>> ========== >>> b Site - >>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin. >>> rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >>> ========== >>> >>> >>> >>> >> * >> >> " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List >> tp://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com> >> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> >> * >> >> * > > " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > tp://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com> > _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > * > > * <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List> <http://www.matronics.com/contribution> * ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: The 'Piet Builder's Bible' Project - Want In?
From: "BritishJim" <james(at)pieceofcakepr.com>
Date: Sep 09, 2015
I'm about to embark on the mammoth task of building my Piet and, without any kind of detailed builder's manual to follow, I had an idea. I've been in publishing my entire career, so this could be fun. - Create a book of step-by-step building instructions with photos. Naturally it would be "this is how I did it and there's a thousand ways to build a Piet, but at least it would provide some guidance to new builders. - Post the current section I'm working on either here or on a dedicated website, and invite other builders to provide contributions/tips that they would wish to share with others working on that particular part/section - Compile these comments into the book (right underneath that section/part being built), so builders can look at the various opinions/options and get a look at the broad spectrum of how others are approaching their own projects - Make it available as either a free eBook or paid product with all proceeds going to a worthy aviation cause. Of course, it's not going to raise much, but giving the funds to a charity is more ethical than me turning it into a profit-making exercise. Does this sound like something the Piet community would benefit from and, if so, is anyone interested in contributing their tips/suggestions over the next few years? Just want to gauge viability at this stage. Thanks, Jim. -------- Your nose is high; you're in the sky. The other way around; you'll hit the ground.... Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446923#446923 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: The 'Piet Builder's Bible' Project - Want In?
From: "Lorenzo" <larharris2(at)msn.com>
Date: Sep 09, 2015
When I started my build I looked for just such a publication, without success. There are many sources of useful building information - Piet specific, and general in nature. Maybe some think that the search and discovery is part of the adventure. Past issues of the BPA newsletter have a great variety of helpful tips. P.F.Beck has written extensively on this subject, and is a reliable source. The Tony Bingelis series of books contains much useful information. West Coast Piet website has many reference photos. William Wynne is a reliable source for Corvair engine conversion, parts, and weight and balance info. These are just a few of the resources I have found. I think your effort could be very helpful in the long run to consolidate some Piet specific stuff in one place for the beginning builder. One more resource can't hurt, might help. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446929#446929 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: The 'Piet Builder's Bible' Project - Want In?
From: "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Sep 09, 2015
My two cents would be to keep it entirely yours.... The reason is that one person trying to incorporate others ideas while building yourself is likely gonna bog the project down. A well written and published diary, builders log, what ever, including dissertation on why you made the choices you did, and the options from which you chose, would be entirely useful just like that. Trying to write an encyclopedia seems more likely to not get done. Then, once done, chapters on alternatives, parallel stories, what ever, can be added fairly easily. Basically a Piet wiki pedia...? Would be an awesome resource! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446933#446933 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 09, 2015
Subject: Re: The 'Piet Builder's Bible' Project - Want In?
From: Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com>
Don't forget the detail descriptions in the flying and glider magazines. By Bernard himself. On Sep 9, 2015 11:16 AM, "Lorenzo" wrote: > > When I started my build I looked for just such a publication, without > success. There are many sources of useful building information - Piet > specific, and general in nature. Maybe some think that the search and > discovery is part of the adventure. > Past issues of the BPA newsletter have a great variety of helpful tips. > P.F.Beck has written extensively on this subject, and is a reliable > source. The Tony Bingelis series of books contains much useful information. > West Coast Piet website has many reference photos. William Wynne is a > reliable source for Corvair engine conversion, parts, and weight and > balance info. These are just a few of the resources I have found. > I think your effort could be very helpful in the long run to consolidate > some Piet specific stuff in one place for the beginning builder. One more > resource can't hurt, might help. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446929#446929 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: The quiet after a good day in the shop.....
From: "FritzW" <fwagoner(at)zianet.com>
Date: Sep 09, 2015
...that just ain't right. Is that really what your shop looks like, or is that an artist concept drawing of what a shop should look like? ...love the engine hanging in the back! -------- Isous Christos, Theou Yios, Str Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446942#446942 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: The quiet after a good day in the shop.....
From: "aerocarjake" <flight.jake(at)gmail.com>
Date: Sep 09, 2015
Ha, thanks....! Figure if I'm going to spend the better part of a decade in that shop, it should be a pleasant place to spend time..... -------- Jake Schultz - curator, Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446945#446945 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Blakesburg adventure
From: "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Sep 09, 2015
Douwe: whoa-! I had never seen your airplane from an angle that showed the curvature in the exhaust pipes. I always assumed that they were straight all the way back to the offset kickers past the rear cockpit. How'd ya do that??!! Pack them full of sand and then gently bend them around a big water tank or something? -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446954#446954 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: The 'Piet Builder's Bible' Project - Want In?
From: "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Sep 09, 2015
Many years ago (probably in the early 1970s) some friends and I overhauled the engine in their VW van after it died. We had hand tools and just one book: John Muir's "How To Keep Your Volkswagen Alive... A Manual of Step By Step Procedures For The Compleat Idiot". It was probably one of the most fun and educational things I have ever done in my life, and I found the book to be as delightful to read as the engine was to work on. A book (or manual) about building an Air Camper, written in that style, would be a wonderful read whether one was building a Piet or not, but it would take a special type of writer to do it right. We're not talking about a book on philosophy like "Zen And The Art of Motorcycle Maintenance", but rather a detailed hands-on narrative with appropriate illustrations, possibly also sprinkled here and there with bits of lore or building philosophy when appropriate but mostly geared to the builder or wannabe who enjoys an evening in the armchair with a good book that inspires and educates. Everyone who has commented on this subject has had very useful input, but if you're a writer, you'll probably go ahead with your idea anyway. I did when I decided to build my little "Flying Squirrel" (still under construction). Tools is right though... I've probably spent as much time taking construction photos and writing narratives about the build as I have actually building. Whoever it was who wrote that "life is a journey, not a destination" nailed my life right on the head. -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446955#446955 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Clif Dawson" <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: The 'Piet Builder's Bible' Project - Want In?
Date: Sep 09, 2015
I think a book written in the style of these two would be quite interesting; http://www.amazon.com/The-Craft-Sail-Primer-Sailing/dp/0802772145 http://www.amazon.com/Marlinspike-Sailor-Hervey-Garrett-Smith/dp/0070592187/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1441865862&sr=1-1&keywords=the+marlinspike+sailor Would fit right in with the Pietenpol Ethos. :-) AND carry on with the Flier and Glider style. Poka! poka! Poka! Clif > > Many years ago (probably in the early 1970s) some friends and I overhauled > the engine in their VW van after it died. We had hand tools and just one > book: John Muir's "How To Keep Your Volkswagen Alive... A Manual of Step > By Step Procedures For The Compleat Idiot". It was probably one of the > most fun and educational things I have ever done in my life, and I found > the book to be as delightful to read as the engine was to work on. A book > (or manual) about building an Air Camper, written in that style, would be > a wonderful read > od book that inspires and educates. > Oscar Zuniga > Medford, OR > Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" > A75 power ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Clif Dawson" <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: The 'Piet Builder's Bible' Project - Want In?
Date: Sep 09, 2015
I think a book written in the style of these two would be quite interesting; http://www.amazon.com/The-Craft-Sail-Primer-Sailing/dp/0802772145 http://www.amazon.com/Marlinspike-Sailor-Hervey-Garrett-Smith/dp/0070592187/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1441865862&sr=1-1&keywords=the+marlinspike+sailor Would fit right in with the Pietenpol Ethos. :-) AND carry on with the Flier and Glider style. Poka! poka! Poka! Clif > > Many years ago (probably in the early 1970s) some friends and I overhauled > the engine in their VW van after it died. We had hand tools and just one > book: John Muir's "How To Keep Your Volkswagen Alive... A Manual of Step > By Step Procedures For The Compleat Idiot". It was probably one of the > most fun and educational things I have ever done in my life, and I found > the book to be as delightful to read as the engine was to work on. A book > (or manual) about building an Air Camper, written in that style, would be > a wonderful read > od book that inspires and educates. > Oscar Zuniga > Medford, OR > Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" > A75 power ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douwe(at)douwestudios.com>
Subject: Re curved tailpipes
Date: Sep 10, 2015
Hey Oscar, Actually, I discovered I could put both ends under the base of my shop hoist and then use the hoist to "raise" sections a little at a time all along the length of the pipe. Took less than thirty minutes for each! Douwe Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Blakesburg adventure From: "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> Douwe: whoa-! I had never seen your airplane from an angle that showed the curvature in the exhaust pipes. I always assumed that they were straight all the way back to the offset kickers past the rear cockpit. How'd ya do that??!! Pack them full of sand and then gently bend them around a big water tank or something? -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446954#446954 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: What's up Doc?
From: "Ryan Mueller" <rmueller23(at)gmail.com>
Date: Sep 10, 2015
Glad to see you're still involved, Doc... Maybe I'm out of the loop on things; did something happen with Andrew Pietenpol? Last I knew he was continuing the family's sale of plans at http://www.pietenpolaircraftcompany.com... Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446970#446970 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 10, 2015
From: Charles Burkholder <born2fly(at)abcmailbox.net>
Subject: Bungee vs. Coil Spring
Hi folks. I am building the steel split axle landing gear for my piet. The main frame is fabricated and tack welded and I am ready to fabricate and install the suspension system. Originally I went for the steel coil spring system for ease of construction and 'weld and forget' rather then having to install and replace bungees. Having ordered and received the springs I want to hear peoples input on using them for a Piet. They seem heavy and too hard-springed for a light aircraft for a Piet but maybe that is not the case? Any input on them versus bungees would be appreciated. Thanks Charles Burkholder ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jack <fastnaught(at)windstream.net>
Subject: Re: Bungee vs. Coil Spring
Date: Sep 10, 2015
Charles, I have the springs on my gear. I bought a project and finished it. The original springs were way too soft. I contacted Wag Aero who sells a replacement spring option for the Cub bungees. They couldn't sell me the springs but gave me a number to call. I ordered the springs and they were a direct bolt on replacement. They seemed too strong but after flying with them they are just right. Good luck, Jack Model a ford Wire wheels Phase 1 Sent from my iPad > On Sep 10, 2015, at 7:27 PM, Charles Burkholder wrote: > > > Hi folks. > I am building the steel split axle landing gear for my piet. The main frame is fabricated and tack welded and I am ready to fabricate and install the suspension system. Originally I went for the steel coil spring system for ease of construction and 'weld and forget' rather then having to install and replace bungees. Having ordered and received the springs I want to hear peoples input on using them for a Piet. They seem heavy and too hard-springed for a light aircraft for a Piet but maybe that is not the case? Any input on them versus bungees would be appreciated. > Thanks > Charles Burkholder > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Bungee vs. Coil Spring
From: "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Sep 10, 2015
Maybe this will help answer some of your questions. http://flycorvair.net/2012/10/27/new-die-spring-landing-gear-on-a-pietenpol-10-a-m-4-p-m/ -------- Semper Fi, Terry Hand Athens, GA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446983#446983 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Bungee vs. Coil Spring
From: "Jeff Boatright" <jeffboatright(at)emory.edu>
Date: Sep 10, 2015
My Piet had bungees originally. They wore out, I had trouble replacing them. I substituted springs. Better in every way. I'd never go back to bungees. HTH and YMMV. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446985#446985 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Bungee vs. Coil Spring
From: Brian Kenney <brian.kenney(at)live.ca>
Date: Sep 10, 2015
Charles your question is a typical one. What compromise is the best? I have a straight axle so bungees are the only practical choice. They work very well. If you want to absorb energy then rubber bands are much better per lb of material than steel. In a split gear the amount of energy that can be absorbed is limited by the volume of spring material in the space and therefore both are inadequate to do the job. Therefore the tires play an important role because you could argue that the gear is semi-rigit. Solid gear works fine with good piloting skills so semi-solid work even better. If you want to compare steel springs have a look at how big they are on an Aeronca champ and they have a shock as well. The choice is yours as there is no correct answer and no incorrect answer. Sent from my iPad > On Sep 10, 2015, at 6:23 PM, Charles Burkholder wrote: > > Hi folks. > I am building the steel split axle landing gear for my piet. The main frame is fabricated and tack welded and I am ready to fabricate and install the suspension system. Originally I went for the steel coil spring system for ease of construction and 'weld and forget' rather then having to install and replace bungees. Having ordered and received the springs I want to hear peoples input on using them for a Piet. They seem heavy and too hard-springed for a light aircraft for a Piet but maybe that is not the case? Any input on them versus bungees would be appreciated. > Thanks > Charles Burkholder ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: The 'Piet Builder's Bible' Project - Want In?
From: "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Sep 10, 2015
Clif: thank you for the book recommendations. I've always wanted to learn how to sail and "The Craft of Sail" sounds like a wonderful addition to my reading stack for this fall and winter! I'll nestle it in between Hornblower and Aubrey & Maturin books ;o) -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446986#446986 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: The 'Piet Builder's Bible' Project - Want In?
From: "William Wynne" <WilliamTCA(at)aol.com>
Date: Sep 11, 2015
Jim, You have a noble idea, but there are some practical limitations that might even be applied to just the building of your own plane. I write a lot, but don't know the 'practical limitations' of your craft, publishing. My craft is building planes so some thoughts here; Muir's book on VW's that Oz mentions is a master work, and it educates, but it's success is that Muir focused the procedures on single methods he knew to work. It truly is a 'bible' in the sense that most religious texts describe a single path to God. I have found that people new to a mechanical experience are much more likely to experience success if they are simply presented the logic behind a proven example, and step by step instructions for that specific example, rather than a lot of optional routes that may all work but not be compatible with each other. Because you are in publishing, you understand the role of editor, and if you are yet to complete a plane, you might not be the strongest 'editor' Ideally lets say you had just ten people as contributors, who had each built and flown their own very good Piet 500 hours as contributors. Then you broke the building task into 100 elements, and cataloged how each of the ten elected to do the 100 tasks. Sounds like a winner, but here is the rub: A new green guy picks the one of ten paths he likes best for each of the 100 tasks, but he doesn't have the experience to understand that even if his combination bolts together, there is a strong chance that it will work poorly, because not all permutations made of good ideas work together. BTW, people are essentially doing this right now, most without understanding this limitation. It is for this reason that I advise new guys to pick one well proven Piet, and build their own close copy of it. New guys make the mistake of thinking this means copying how a plane looks. What I mean is picking a mechanical layout, ie a fuselage length, power plant, a CG pattern, fuel system, landing gear, and duplicating it mechanically. The external cosmetic looks, within reason, are not important to how the plane flies or if it is mechanically sound. This is essentially the approach we have over on our "Piet-vair" group. We have 100+ guys building planes that will all probably look different, but they are all patterned after a handful of mechanically proven paths. This starts early in the project, as we have in individual W&B page for each builder, not as something done later as a rude awakening after the build, but as an integrated part of the build itself, where it does the most good, as prevention of problems. The task of looking after builders is infinitely simpler if they are all using the same power plant, and critically, they are in the discussion, so other builders read their responses to understand what they don't yet follow. Guys lurking on websites or reading books are one way communications without the feedback loop that is a vital part of teaching people and learning. They often don't have experienced people to say 'those are good ideas, but they don't work together well.' http://flycorvair.net/2015/09/06/zen-vair-and-piet-vair-discussion-groups-your-resource/ PS, No one in my family can dance, but Dad is a '49 graduate of "Canoe U", and damn it, we were all going to know how to sail well. I have also built a good number of boats from 8' to 30'. Here is an important difference on Planes vs Boats: 1) On the water, the 'defecation hits the rotary oscillator' slower than it does in the sky. 2) Almost any collection of buoyant material will float, even when it will not sail at all. A collection of bad plane ideas has no 'float' analogy. 3) I have had to contemplate using both life jackets and parachutes, and at that moment, I didn't have to think of how little training I had in using my life jacket, I knew it would 'deploy' automatically at the surface. .ww. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446987#446987 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douwe(at)douwestudios.com>
Subject: Ethanol
Date: Sep 11, 2015
Hey all, Would anybody truly "in the know" help me understand why ethanol fuel is considered a "no-no" in our type of airplane?

August 18, 2015 - September 11, 2015

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