Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-pf
March 10, 2016 - April 22, 2016
| Subject: | Re: Dick Navratil BPA Newsletter |
| From: | "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org> |
Bill,
It sounds to me like your Bragging again. :) Is the Canadian postal service just
that much better than the one in the USA?
I've been waiting for my issue as well. I was getting worried that my subscription
ran out.
Waiting and watching for the postal folks in So CA. Like Steve Martin and the
phone book scene.
--------
Scott Liefeld
Flying N11MS since March 1972
Steel Tube
C-85-12
Wire Wheels
Brodhead in 1996
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=453634#453634
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Pauls Piet Build |
| From: | "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca> |
Paul,
Why in the world would you... just kidding.
Very nice woodwork.
Just be careful about watching the weight.
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=453636#453636
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Barry Davis" <bed(at)mindspring.com> |
Got mine yesterday in Georgia. Great tribute issue!
Barry
NX973BP
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: BPA Newsletter |
| From: | Marcus Zechini <marcus.zechini(at)gmail.com> |
Where do I send $$$? Email or paper ok with me.
On Mar 10, 2016 12:32 PM, "Barry Davis" wrote:
> Got mine yesterday in Georgia. Great tribute issue!
>
> Barry
>
> NX973BP
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Barry Davis" <bed(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | EAA Vintage Meeting in Georgia |
John H
Good to see you at the Vintage Meeting. I had to scoot out early due to
prior commitments. Looks like I will have to dig the Big Piet out as our
temperature was 78 yesterday (if only the wind would get below 20 and
gusting)
Barry D
NX973BP
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Dick Navratil BPA Newsletter |
| From: | "tkreiner" <tkreiner(at)gmail.com> |
To all,
When I opened my mailbox, to my surprise was not only the current BPA Newsletter,
but a very nice note from John Hoffman regarding the his involvement with it
and what he's experienced during the last year.
John has acknowledged that the timing of the Newsletter has hit a nerve, and his
is extending everyone's subscription for a full year, gratis!
Kudo's to John for doing the right thing!
--------
Tom Kreiner
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=453650#453650
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Dick Navratil BPA Newsletter |
| From: | "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org> |
Pieters,
That's very nice of John to offer the extra year. But I would feel badly if he
had to shoulder the extra cost. I don't think he took this on as a business but
rather to support all of our interest. Thank you John for doing that. The
offering of the extra year just shows what kind of person John truly is.
I for one will continue to send in my subscription.
--------
Scott Liefeld
Flying N11MS since March 1972
Steel Tube
C-85-12
Wire Wheels
Brodhead in 1996
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=453651#453651
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | cessna7226g(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: BPA Newsletter |
Barry,
How do I contact the editor. I paid my dues last year and never received a copy
Joe R
-----Original Message-----
From: Marcus Zechini <marcus.zechini(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Thu, Mar 10, 2016 12:35 pm
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: BPA Newsletter
Where do I send $$$? Email or paper ok with me.
On Mar 10, 2016 12:32 PM, "Barry Davis" wrote:
Got mine yesterday in Georgia. Great tribute issue!
Barry
NX973BP
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Boyer <boyerjrb(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Starting my build, but need to know which fuselage |
to build!
Hi John,
Wonderful edition of Newsletter tribute to Dick Navratil. Just received it today
and have really enjoyed reading it. Dick was a wonderful ambassador for the
Pietenpol through his being at Brodhead and through the wood workshop at Sun-n-Fun.
Never forget my ride in his rotary engine Piet.
Thanks,
Jim Boyer
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Barry Davis" <bed(at)mindspring.com> |
Send an email to John Hofmann at jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc.com
Barry
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
cessna7226g(at)aol.com
Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2016 9:23 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: BPA Newsletter
Barry,
How do I contact the editor. I paid my dues last year and never received
a copy
Joe R
-----Original Message-----
From: Marcus Zechini <marcus.zechini(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Thu, Mar 10, 2016 12:35 pm
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: BPA Newsletter
Where do I send $$$? Email or paper ok with me.
On Mar 10, 2016 12:32 PM, "Barry Davis" wrote:
Got mine yesterday in Georgia. Great tribute issue!
Barry
NX973BP
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | cessna7226g(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: BPA Newsletter |
Thank you for the info
-----Original Message-----
From: Barry Davis <bed(at)mindspring.com>
Sent: Fri, Mar 11, 2016 12:53 pm
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: BPA Newsletter
Send an email to John Hofmann at jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc.com
Barry
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of cessna7226g(at)aol.com
Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2016 9:23 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: BPA Newsletter
Barry,
How do I contact the editor. I paid my dues last year and never received a copy
Joe R
-----Original Message-----
From: Marcus Zechini <marcus.zechini(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Thu, Mar 10, 2016 12:35 pm
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: BPA Newsletter
Where do I send $$$? Email or paper ok with me.
On Mar 10, 2016 12:32 PM, "Barry Davis" wrote:
Got mine yesterday in Georgia. Great tribute issue!
Barry
NX973BP
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Small Continental on EBAY |
| From: | "tkreiner" <tkreiner(at)gmail.com> |
The engine in this link is unidentified as to exact type, but from the pics, it's
a small Continental, and might be worth bidding on.
Here's the link:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/222019966172?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
--------
Tom Kreiner
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=453685#453685
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Pauls Piet Build |
| From: | "braywood" <braywood(at)hotmail.com> |
Gorgeous!! I am very jealous of your workmanship!! Keep us posted on progress!!
Mark
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=453694#453694
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Small Continental on EBAY |
| From: | "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
Definitely a small Continental with tapered shaft, no data plate, and without a
photo of the rear of the engine it's hard to tell all the details. If what the
seller is saying is correct, that it came out of a Piper, it could be an A65-8
out of a Cub, maybe an A75, it does have two sets of plugs so it would definitely
have had dual magnetos. He's advertising it for $1100 with free shipping.
It would probably be worth that just in parts/cores unless it's trashed
inside.
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=453710#453710
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Small Continental on EBAY |
| From: | "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
Oh, I just noticed that the seller says it turns over 360 degrees, so that might
indicate it hasn't thrown a rod or destroyed its insides.
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=453716#453716
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Some recent metalwork from the UK |
| From: | "johnnysdrop" <johnnysdrop(at)googlemail.com> |
Hi Tony,
Sorry for a very slow reply, I have enough trouble finding time to make anything
for myself let alone anyone else so cannot help with your request unfortunately.
Thank you for the interest though!
Regards
English Johnny
Still building the wings
--------
The only way is UP
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=453771#453771
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Pauls Piet Build |
| From: | "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org> |
Hi Phil,
I see your trim tab. Mine is located in the rear most bay, under the horizontal.
I have had mine for more than 30 years. It works very well. I have a tension
spring on one horn, a single cable going to the cockpit , attaching to the
lever and another tension spring on the lever. The springs work against each
other to keep the cable tight. Very light weight.
We got the idea of this type of trim tab from the Pre-war T-Craft. You will like
it. At this point I would consider moving yours back to the next bay. It
will be more effective because of the longer arm. It will also be out of the
way and people won't be walking into it.
I believe there are pics of mine at www.westcoastpiet.com
Cheers,
--------
Scott Liefeld
Flying N11MS since March 1972
Steel Tube
C-85-12
Wire Wheels
Brodhead in 1996
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=453802#453802
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Some recent metalwork from the UK |
| From: | Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com> |
English Johnny, those look substandard. Please ship them to me in Texas for
long term testing!
Blue skies,
Steve D
On Mar 15, 2016 6:34 AM, "johnnysdrop" wrote:
> johnnysdrop(at)googlemail.com>
>
> Hi Tony,
> Sorry for a very slow reply, I have enough trouble finding time to make
> anything for myself let alone anyone else so cannot help with your request
> unfortunately.
> Thank you for the interest though!
> Regards
> English Johnny
> Still building the wings
>
> --------
> The only way is UP
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=453771#453771
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Peter Johnson <vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au> |
Hi Guys,
I had a successful first flight this morning in the Pietenpol. Beautiful morning
and a very smooth flight. Just a circuit of the field to check everything is
OK. The trim is a little nose heavy but otherwise she flys beautifully.
Cheers
Peter
Wonthaggi Australia
http://repiet.cpc-world.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Boatright, Jeffrey" <jeffboatright(at)emory.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: First Flight |
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________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: First Flight |
| From: | Scott Knowlton <flyingscott_k(at)hotmail.com> |
Well done Peter! Looks amazing.
Scott Knowlton
Burlington Ontario
Canada
Sent from my iPhone
> On Mar 16, 2016, at 7:46 PM, Peter Johnson wrote:
>
> Hi Guys,
>
> I had a successful first flight this morning in the Pietenpol. Beautiful morning
and a very smooth flight. Just a circuit of the field to check everything
is OK. The trim is a little nose heavy but otherwise she flys beautifully.
>
> Cheers
>
> Peter
>
> Wonthaggi Australia
> http://repiet.cpc-world.com
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: First Flight |
| From: | Marcus Zechini <marcus.zechini(at)gmail.com> |
Congratulations!
On Mar 16, 2016 7:43 PM, "Peter Johnson" wrote:
> Hi Guys,
>
> I had a successful first flight this morning in the Pietenpol. Beautiful
> morning and a very smooth flight. Just a circuit of the field to check
> everything is OK. The trim is a little nose heavy but otherwise she flys
> beautifully.
>
> Cheers
>
> Peter
>
> Wonthaggi Australia
> http://repiet.cpc-world.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ray Krause <raykrause(at)frontiernet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: First Flight |
Congratulations! Your plane is beautiful, especially the color and prop. I hope
to fly mine this summer.
Ray Krause
Sent from my iPad
> On Mar 16, 2016, at 4:26 PM, Peter Johnson wrote:
>
> Hi Guys,
>
> I had a successful first flight this morning in the Pietenpol. Beautiful morning
and a very smooth flight. Just a circuit of the field to check everything
is OK. The trim is a little nose heavy but otherwise she flys beautifully.
>
> Cheers
>
> Peter
>
> Wonthaggi Australia
> http://repiet.cpc-world.com
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: First Flight |
| From: | John Cox <rv10pro(at)gmail.com> |
Gorgeous Picture!
John Cox - Oregon
On Wed, Mar 16, 2016 at 4:26 PM, Peter Johnson
wrote:
> Hi Guys,
>
> I had a successful first flight this morning in the Pietenpol. Beautiful
> morning and a very smooth flight. Just a circuit of the field to check
> everything is OK. The trim is a little nose heavy but otherwise she flys
> beautifully.
>
> Cheers
>
> Peter
>
> Wonthaggi Australia
> http://repiet.cpc-world.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: New (Free) Aviation App |
| From: | "gbrasch" <gmbrasch(at)gmail.com> |
We just completed a major upgrade to Airport Courtesy Cars App, which now makes the app available on ALL devices, including the web. Please upgrade your app to the latest version. If your phone does not support the app, then go to our new website, www.airportcourtesycars.com The site is mobile friendly and you can place its icon to your phone or tablet screen. Both versions show Google maps for each state, the app version still shows the entire US map which some people prefer. The site currently lists over 1560 cars. Thanks for your input and contact us with any questions, new listings, or corrections to airportcars101(at)gmail.com And please check out our advertisers and FBOs who offer you fuel discounts. The app remains free.
--------
Glenn Brasch
RV-9A Flying
Medevac Helicopter Pilot (Ret)
Owner, "Airport Courtesy Cars" Smart Phone App
and www.airportcourtesycars.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=453847#453847
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: First Flight |
| From: | "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
There are so many appealing things about your airplane! A very pleasing 'period'
look to it. Congratulations on getting it in the air, mate!
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=453876#453876
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: BPA Newsletter |
| From: | "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
I got my copy in the mail yesterday. The horse was plum wore out by the time he
made it over the wide open West and the Cascades and rode into town with the
mail, but the newsletter was in good shape and it looks like there's a lot of
good stuff inside. I won't get to read mine till this weekend though. Too much
work ;o(
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=453877#453877
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Semih Oksay <semihoksay(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: First Flight |
Congratulations.
Semih Oksay in Turkey=8B
On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 2:24 AM, John Cox wrote:
> Gorgeous Picture!
>
> John Cox - Oregon
>
> On Wed, Mar 16, 2016 at 4:26 PM, Peter Johnson
> wrote:
>
>> Hi Guys,
>>
>> I had a successful first flight this morning in the Pietenpol. Beautiful
>> morning and a very smooth flight. Just a circuit of the field to check
>> everything is OK. The trim is a little nose heavy but otherwise she flys
>> beautifully.
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Peter
>>
>> Wonthaggi Australia
>> http://repiet.cpc-world.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
--
Semih Oksay
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: First Flight |
| From: | vic groah <vicgroah(at)gmail.com> |
very nice, look great love the cowl. Ours is a little nose heavy too.
Most are a little tail heavy, probably safer with the nose a little heavy.
If you have a power out landing it would be a bit better. VG 414mv
On Wed, Mar 16, 2016 at 8:48 PM, Semih Oksay wrote:
> Congratulations.
>
> Semih Oksay in Turkey=8B
>
> On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 2:24 AM, John Cox wrote:
>
>> Gorgeous Picture!
>>
>> John Cox - Oregon
>>
>> On Wed, Mar 16, 2016 at 4:26 PM, Peter Johnson
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Guys,
>>>
>>> I had a successful first flight this morning in the Pietenpol. Beautifu
l
>>> morning and a very smooth flight. Just a circuit of the field to check
>>> everything is OK. The trim is a little nose heavy but otherwise she fly
s
>>> beautifully.
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>>
>>> Peter
>>>
>>> Wonthaggi Australia
>>> http://repiet.cpc-world.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Semih Oksay
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Some recent metalwork from the UK |
| From: | "johnnysdrop" <johnnysdrop(at)googlemail.com> |
Steve, shall I include the rest of the parts made [Exclamation]
--------
The only way is UP
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=453885#453885
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Some recent metalwork from the UK |
| From: | Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com> |
Actually just get it all assembled and covered. ship it that way. I will
inspect and test it. LOL
Steve
On Mar 17, 2016 3:42 AM, "johnnysdrop" wrote:
> johnnysdrop(at)googlemail.com>
>
> Steve, shall I include the rest of the parts made [Exclamation]
>
> --------
> The only way is UP
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=453885#453885
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: First Flight |
| From: | "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org> |
Great looking airplane. You will enjoy many years with it and create many lifetime
memories. Your CG will shift as you burn the fuel out of the nose tank.
I have 10 US gallons in the nose of mine and it make a huge difference as the
fuel burns off.
Enjoy it my friend, You have earned it.
Cheers,
--------
Scott Liefeld
Flying N11MS since March 1972
Steel Tube
C-85-12
Wire Wheels
Brodhead in 1996
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=453892#453892
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fairfield, Mike" <MFairfield(at)hewitt.ca> |
| Subject: | Pauls Piet Build |
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fairfield, Mike" <MFairfield(at)hewitt.ca> |
| Subject: | Pauls Piet Build |
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________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Pauls Piet Build |
| From: | "PatrickW" <pwhoyt(at)yahoo.com> |
Really nice, Paul. Several guys thinking along the same lines as you...
Looking forward to seeing more pictures. Keep sharing & inspiring us.
Where are you located?
Patrick Hoyt
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=453906#453906
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Stuart Brown <stu_brown(at)verizon.net> |
One of our EAA chapter members passed away. We are finishing his Ford powered project
for his family. My question is about the "steam line" installation. Is
there an accepted method for attaching the steam line to the head. The builder
drilled and tapped a 1/4" NPT hole in the head and screwed a short nipple the
to the hole. For lateral support, he drilled a hole in a piece of plywood, placed
it over the nipple and epoxied the plywood to the head. Good or not, we
do not know?
Thanks in advance.
Stu Brown
Sent from my iPad
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douwe Blumberg" <douwe(at)douwestudios.com> |
Hey Paul,
Cool project!
What will your landing gear be? What engine?
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Boyer <boyerjrb(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: First Flight |
Hi Peter,
Nice looking PIet and congratulations on the first flight. Hope you have many more
enjoyable flights in her.
Jim B.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Pauls Piet Build |
| From: | "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org> |
Paul,
I just spotted something you should address before you break your rudder. I see
you have rudder peddles for the rear cockpit. You should add a balance cable
to the system to prevent the chance of putting pressure on both rudder horns
at the same time. Imagine pushing both rudder peddles at the same time as if
applying toe brakes. The rudder horns can't take that type of load and will
pull away from the rudder's front spar.
The easy way is to attach a cable to each of the rear rudder peddles connecting
the two together. The cable should be routed under the front seat and to the
rear of the seat. In a "U" shape while looking from above. So that if you push
forward on the left peddle, the right one will move to the rear.
I hope I have explain it well enough. The rudder bar does not require the balance
cable since the pilot cannot push forward on both sides at the same time.
Respectfully,
--------
Scott Liefeld
Flying N11MS since March 1972
Steel Tube
C-85-12
Wire Wheels
Brodhead in 1996
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=453983#453983
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Pauls Piet Build |
| From: | Marcus Zechini <marcus.zechini(at)gmail.com> |
Jack Phillips can, I've heard....
On Mar 22, 2016 10:31 AM, "AircamperN11MS" wrote:
> Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org>
>
> Paul,
>
> I just spotted something you should address before you break your rudder.
> I see you have rudder peddles for the rear cockpit. You should add a
> balance cable to the system to prevent the chance of putting pressure on
> both rudder horns at the same time. Imagine pushing both rudder peddles at
> the same time as if applying toe brakes. The rudder horns can't take that
> type of load and will pull away from the rudder's front spar.
>
> The easy way is to attach a cable to each of the rear rudder peddles
> connecting the two together. The cable should be routed under the front
> seat and to the rear of the seat. In a "U" shape while looking from
> above. So that if you push forward on the left peddle, the right one will
> move to the rear.
>
> I hope I have explain it well enough. The rudder bar does not require the
> balance cable since the pilot cannot push forward on both sides at the same
> time.
>
> Respectfully,
>
> --------
> Scott Liefeld
> Flying N11MS since March 1972
> Steel Tube
> C-85-12
> Wire Wheels
> Brodhead in 1996
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=453983#453983
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Philips" <jack(at)bedfordlandings.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pauls Piet Build |
Hah! By the way, over the winter I finally made a new rudder bar pivot
and installed it with two braces. The field repair was working fine,
but the new pivot works better. I brazed the pivot bolt per the plans
this time.
I also made new diagonal cabane struts and installed them. The
originals had turnbuckles in order to make adjustments to the wing for
C.G. purposes and would probably not have survived a crash if the plane
turned turtle, which means the pilot would likely not survive. The new
struts are much stronger.
William Wynne should be proud. He had commented years ago that my
diagonals would never withstand a crash. I agreed with him, but it took
me a few years to get around to it.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Marcus
Zechini
Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2016 1:10 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pauls Piet Build
Jack Phillips can, I've heard....
On Mar 22, 2016 10:31 AM, "AircamperN11MS" > wrote:
>
Paul,
I just spotted something you should address before you break your
rudder. I see you have rudder peddles for the rear cockpit. You should
add a balance cable to the system to prevent the chance of putting
pressure on both rudder horns at the same time. Imagine pushing both
rudder peddles at the same time as if applying toe brakes. The rudder
horns can't take that type of load and will pull away from the rudder's
front spar.
The easy way is to attach a cable to each of the rear rudder peddles
connecting the two together. The cable should be routed under the front
seat and to the rear of the seat. In a "U" shape while looking from
above. So that if you push forward on the left peddle, the right one
will move to the rear.
I hope I have explain it well enough. The rudder bar does not require
the balance cable since the pilot cannot push forward on both sides at
the same time.
Respectfully,
--------
Scott Liefeld
Flying N11MS since March 1972
Steel Tube
C-85-12
Wire Wheels
Brodhead in 1996
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=453983#453983
br> fts!)
r> > w.buildersbooks.com" rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com <http://www.buildersbooks.com>
rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
br> enpol-List" rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
FORUMS -
eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
b Site -
-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Pauls Piet Build |
| From: | Scott Knowlton <flyingscott_k(at)hotmail.com> |
Jack, I'm very close to the stage of fabricating the diagonals. Yours look g
reat! What kind of streamlined material did you use?
Scott Knowlton
Sent from my iPhone
> On Mar 22, 2016, at 2:54 PM, Jack Philips wrote
:
>
> Hah! By the way, over the winter I finally made a new rudder bar pivot an
d installed it with two braces. The field repair was working fine, but the n
ew pivot works better. I brazed the pivot bolt per the plans this time.
>
> I also made new diagonal cabane struts and installed them. The originals h
ad turnbuckles in order to make adjustments to the wing for C.G. purposes an
d would probably not have survived a crash if the plane turned turtle, which
means the pilot would likely not survive. The new struts are much stronger
.
>
>
>
> William Wynne should be proud. He had commented years ago that my diagona
ls would never withstand a crash. I agreed with him, but it took me a few y
ears to get around to it.
>
> Jack Phillips
> NX899JP
> Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
>
>
>
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-li
st-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Marcus Zechini
> Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2016 1:10 PM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pauls Piet Build
>
> Jack Phillips can, I've heard....
>
> On Mar 22, 2016 10:31 AM, "AircamperN11MS" wrot
e:
ty.org>
>
> Paul,
>
> I just spotted something you should address before you break your rudder.
I see you have rudder peddles for the rear cockpit. You should add a balan
ce cable to the system to prevent the chance of putting pressure on both rud
der horns at the same time. Imagine pushing both rudder peddles at the same
time as if applying toe brakes. The rudder horns can't take that type of l
oad and will pull away from the rudder's front spar.
>
> The easy way is to attach a cable to each of the rear rudder peddles conne
cting the two together. The cable should be routed under the front seat and
to the rear of the seat. In a "U" shape while looking from above. So that
if you push forward on the left peddle, the right one will move to the rear
.
>
> I hope I have explain it well enough. The rudder bar does not require the
balance cable since the pilot cannot push forward on both sides at the same
time.
>
> Respectfully,
>
> --------
> Scott Liefeld
> Flying N11MS since March 1972
> Steel Tube
> C-85-12
> Wire Wheels
> Brodhead in 1996
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=453983#453983
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ==========
> br> fts!)
> r> > w.buildersbooks.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">www.builder
sbooks.com
> rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> ==========
> br> enpol-List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.
com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> ==========
> FORUMS -
> eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
> ==========
> b Site -
> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ==========
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Pauls Piet Build |
| From: | Marcus Zechini <marcus.zechini(at)gmail.com> |
I worry a bit about those diagonals. I don't have them, and I have a front
pax door, too! It is a Grega, but don't know why no diagonals.
On Mar 22, 2016 2:53 PM, "Jack Philips" wrote:
> Hah! By the way, over the winter I finally made a new rudder bar pivot
> and installed it with two braces. The field repair was working fine, but
> the new pivot works better. I brazed the pivot bolt per the plans this
> time.
>
>
> I also made new diagonal cabane struts and installed them. The originals
> had turnbuckles in order to make adjustments to the wing for C.G. purposes
> and would probably not have survived a crash if the plane turned turtle,
> which means the pilot would likely not survive. The new struts are much
> stronger.
>
>
> William Wynne should be proud. He had commented years ago that my
> diagonals would never withstand a crash. I agreed with him, but it took me
> a few years to get around to it.
>
>
> Jack Phillips
>
> NX899JP
>
> Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
>
>
> *From:* owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Marcus Zechini
> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 22, 2016 1:10 PM
> *To:* pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pauls Piet Build
>
>
> Jack Phillips can, I've heard....
>
> On Mar 22, 2016 10:31 AM, "AircamperN11MS"
> wrote:
>
> Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org>
>
> Paul,
>
> I just spotted something you should address before you break your rudder.
> I see you have rudder peddles for the rear cockpit. You should add a
> balance cable to the system to prevent the chance of putting pressure on
> both rudder horns at the same time. Imagine pushing both rudder peddles at
> the same time as if applying toe brakes. The rudder horns can't take that
> type of load and will pull away from the rudder's front spar.
>
> The easy way is to attach a cable to each of the rear rudder peddles
> connecting the two together. The cable should be routed under the front
> seat and to the rear of the seat. In a "U" shape while looking from
> above. So that if you push forward on the left peddle, the right one will
> move to the rear.
>
> I hope I have explain it well enough. The rudder bar does not require the
> balance cable since the pilot cannot push forward on both sides at the same
> time.
>
> Respectfully,
>
> --------
> Scott Liefeld
> Flying N11MS since March 1972
> Steel Tube
> C-85-12
> Wire Wheels
> Brodhead in 1996
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=453983#453983
>
>
> ==========
> br> fts!)
> r> > w.buildersbooks.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">
> www.buildersbooks.com
> rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> ==========
> br> enpol-List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> ==========
> FORUMS -
> eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
> ==========
> b Site -
> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ==========
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Philips" <jack(at)bedfordlandings.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pauls Piet Build |
It is streamlined steel (4130) tubing. I'm not sure what size but I'll
measure it tomorrow.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott
Knowlton
Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2016 2:57 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pauls Piet Build
Jack, I'm very close to the stage of fabricating the diagonals. Yours look
great! What kind of streamlined material did you use?
Scott Knowlton
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 22, 2016, at 2:54 PM, Jack Philips > wrote:
Hah! By the way, over the winter I finally made a new rudder bar pivot and
installed it with two braces. The field repair was working fine, but the
new pivot works better. I brazed the pivot bolt per the plans this time.
I also made new diagonal cabane struts and installed them. The originals
had turnbuckles in order to make adjustments to the wing for C.G. purposes
and would probably not have survived a crash if the plane turned turtle,
which means the pilot would likely not survive. The new struts are much
stronger.
William Wynne should be proud. He had commented years ago that my diagonals
would never withstand a crash. I agreed with him, but it took me a few
years to get around to it.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Marcus
Zechini
Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2016 1:10 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pauls Piet Build
Jack Phillips can, I've heard....
On Mar 22, 2016 10:31 AM, "AircamperN11MS" > wrote:
>
Paul,
I just spotted something you should address before you break your rudder. I
see you have rudder peddles for the rear cockpit. You should add a balance
cable to the system to prevent the chance of putting pressure on both rudder
horns at the same time. Imagine pushing both rudder peddles at the same
time as if applying toe brakes. The rudder horns can't take that type of
load and will pull away from the rudder's front spar.
The easy way is to attach a cable to each of the rear rudder peddles
connecting the two together. The cable should be routed under the front
seat and to the rear of the seat. In a "U" shape while looking from above.
So that if you push forward on the left peddle, the right one will move to
the rear.
I hope I have explain it well enough. The rudder bar does not require the
balance cable since the pilot cannot push forward on both sides at the same
time.
Respectfully,
--------
Scott Liefeld
Flying N11MS since March 1972
Steel Tube
C-85-12
Wire Wheels
Brodhead in 1996
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=453983#453983
==========
br> fts!)
r> > w.buildersbooks.com <http://w.buildersbooks.com> " rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com <http://www.buildersbooks.com>
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
==========
br> enpol-List" rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
==========
FORUMS -
eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
==========
b Site -
-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
==========
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Pauls Piet Build |
| From: | Scott Knowlton <flyingscott_k(at)hotmail.com> |
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________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Pauls Piet Build |
| From: | "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca> |
Paul,
The phenomenon Scott was referring to doesn't have anything to do with the type
of brakes you have (or don't have). What he's talking about is the all too real
possibility of pushing forward on both rudder pedals at the same time - especially
in situations like those experienced with gusty crosswinds, when the
rudder gets a workout, or in a moment of panic. Without the balance cable that
Scott referred to, there's a very good chance that you'll end up over stressing
the rudder horn at the other ends of the cables that are attached to the pedals.
With a rudder bar, as per the plans, it isn't a concern, since the rudder bar doesn't
bend (or at least, it isn't supposed to), so, when you push on one side,
the bar pivots in the middle, avoiding having the cable pulling on both sides.
It will be a lot easier to add the cable loop now than it will after the plane
is finished.
Something to seriously think about.
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=454010#454010
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douwe Blumberg" <douwe(at)douwestudios.com> |
With the original rudder bar, the only pressure that can be transferred to
the rudder horn is the pressure intended by the foot to pull the rudder
over. IF/when pressure is placed on both sides of the bar, the pivot point
takes the stress and it isn't transferred to the horn. If rudder pedals are
installed instead of the bar, one could press on both pedals and those
stresses to straight to the rudder horn, not good. Pressure from both feet
happens more than one would expect. As mentioned, during rough landings, we
often inadvertently push both sides. Even cruising around, I find both feet
putting some pressure on the bar.
IF replacing the rudder bar with pedals, there absolutely must be some sort
of cable system as mentioned to eliminate this issue.
Another option is to use a rudder bar up front and run hook your back pedals
to the bar and let the bar's pivot point take the stress.
I feel this is a must.
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Pauls Piet Build |
| From: | "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org> |
Paul,
Even if you just put pressure on both pedals at the same time to re-arrange your
butt in the seat, you could break the rudder horns from the structure. It's
not that it can happen but more of it WILL happen should you not install the
cables. It's just a matter of time. I have seen it happen. The other way to
address it is to put a slave horn in the fuselage somewhere behind the pilots
seat but this only adds to the tail heavy/complexity issues most have.
Very Highly recommended.
--------
Scott Liefeld
Flying N11MS since March 1972
Steel Tube
C-85-12
Wire Wheels
Brodhead in 1996
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=454016#454016
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Philips" <jack(at)bedfordlandings.com> |
Douwe (and Paul),
Putting a rudder bar in the front cockpit only alleviates the potential
problem of putting tension on both rudder horns if pushrods are used to
connect the rear rudder pedals to the front rudder bar. If cables and
springs are used, the rear pedals can still both be pushed and put tension
on both rudder horns. The crossover cable suggested by Scott is a better
solution, if for some reason rudder pedals simply have to be used in the
rear cockpit. This seems like another area where one simple change from the
original, time-tested design causes other changes to ripple through the
project, adding weight and complication. SIMPLICATE AND ADD LIGHTNESS!
As Marcus Zechinni hinted, I broke the rudder bar pivot bolt in mine last
spring, which definitely shows that it is possible to put a good deal of
stress on the pedals/bar. It turned out that the bolt broke due to cracks
caused by welding without removing the cadmium plating, with Hydrogen
embrittlement the likely culprit. I brazed the new one (after removing the
cad plating with muriatic acid) per the plans.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Douwe
Blumberg
Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2016 8:52 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: paul's build
With the original rudder bar, the only pressure that can be transferred to
the rudder horn is the pressure intended by the foot to pull the rudder
over. IF/when pressure is placed on both sides of the bar, the pivot point
takes the stress and it isn't transferred to the horn. If rudder pedals are
installed instead of the bar, one could press on both pedals and those
stresses to straight to the rudder horn, not good. Pressure from both feet
happens more than one would expect. As mentioned, during rough landings, we
often inadvertently push both sides. Even cruising around, I find both feet
putting some pressure on the bar.
IF replacing the rudder bar with pedals, there absolutely must be some sort
of cable system as mentioned to eliminate this issue.
Another option is to use a rudder bar up front and run hook your back pedals
to the bar and let the bar's pivot point take the stress.
I feel this is a must.
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Pauls Piet Build |
| From: | Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com> |
I don't have a rudder bar, but I will look over my system and see what was
done on my piet rudder system.
If a safety rudder cable is installed I would think about running the cable
through a small block of sacrificial phenolic block to prevent sawing on
the wood structure.
The phenolic block is light, wears well, is slick and won't add resistance
to the cable. Also, I am used to using phenolic and I have plenty on hand.
Blue skies,
Steve D
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com> |
Jack, you did not use the correct terminology!
It is simplificate and add lightness!
If done properly I will help with the levelidity when you formate in flight
.
;=C3=97}
Steve D
On Mar 23, 2016 8:42 AM, "Jack Philips" wrote:
> Douwe (and Paul),
>
>
> Putting a rudder bar in the front cockpit only alleviates the potential
> problem of putting tension on both rudder horns if pushrods are used to
> connect the rear rudder pedals to the front rudder bar. If cables and
> springs are used, the rear pedals can still both be pushed and put tensio
n
> on both rudder horns. The crossover cable suggested by Scott is a better
> solution, if for some reason rudder pedals simply have to be used in the
> rear cockpit. This seems like another area where one simple change from
> the original, time-tested design causes other changes to ripple through t
he
> project, adding weight and complication. SIMPLICATE AND ADD LIGHTNESS!
>
>
> As Marcus Zechinni hinted, I broke the rudder bar pivot bolt in mine last
> spring, which definitely shows that it is possible to put a good deal of
> stress on the pedals/bar. It turned out that the bolt broke due to crack
s
> caused by welding without removing the cadmium plating, with Hydrogen
> embrittlement the likely culprit. I brazed the new one (after removing t
he
> cad plating with muriatic acid) per the plans.
>
>
> Jack Phillips
>
> NX899JP
>
> Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
>
>
> *From:* owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Douwe Blumberg
> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 23, 2016 8:52 AM
> *To:* pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: paul's build
>
>
> With the original rudder bar, the only pressure that can be transferred t
o
> the rudder horn is the pressure intended by the foot to pull the rudder
> over. IF/when pressure is placed on both sides of the bar, the pivot poi
nt
> takes the stress and it isn=99t transferred to the horn. If rudder
pedals
> are installed instead of the bar, one could press on both pedals and thos
e
> stresses to straight to the rudder horn, not good. Pressure from both fee
t
> happens more than one would expect. As mentioned, during rough landings,
> we often inadvertently push both sides. Even cruising around, I find bot
h
> feet putting some pressure on the bar.
>
>
> IF replacing the rudder bar with pedals, there absolutely must be some
> sort of cable system as mentioned to eliminate this issue.
>
>
> Another option is to use a rudder bar up front and run hook your back
> pedals to the bar and let the bar=99s pivot point take the stress.
>
>
> I feel this is a must.
>
>
> Douwe
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | cabane brace diagonals |
Marcus=3B
The reason why the Grega does not have the diagonals is because of the geom
etry of the wing attachments at the top of the cabanes. The Pietenpol Air
Camper wing can pivot on the four cabane struts so it either needs cable X-
braces between the side cabane struts or diagonal braces to restrain everyt
hing from pivoting. The Grega Aircamper mounts the wing to the cabane stru
ts with the bolts inserted longitudinally=2C so there is no pivoting of the
wing.
To see the effect on adjustable braces when you put an Air Camper over on i
ts back=2C here's what 41CC's braces looked like after it happened: http://
www.flysquirrel.net/piets/incident/PB130010.JPG . Once the assembly yields
at any point=2C it folds up like a two dollar suitcase=2C thus the emphasi
s on connecting the diagonals to the uprights rigidly.
Oscar Zuniga
Medford=2C OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Philips" <jack(at)bedfordlandings.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pauls Piet Build |
Scott, I just measured the cabane diagonal struts and they are made of
streamlined 4130 steel tubing with a major axis of 1.349", minor axis .571",
wall thickness .049.
Here are some pictures showing their construction:
First step was to accurately locate the holes to match the adjustable
diagonals which they are to replace.
Then, steel tubing was inserted in the holes.
The tubes were then welded in place and cut to length.
Then the ends of the struts were cut and trimmed to fit the existing
fittings. This is the top end of the diagonal, which has to fit over a tab
welded to the front of the forward Cabane strut.
Here is the bottom end of the diagonal. Note the length of tubing required
to fill the space between the top engine mounts, where the diagonal strut
attaches.
To see how I made my forward cabane struts to attach the diagonals, look at
the next two pictures:
This is the top of the forward cabane strut. The slotted tab fits into a
slot at the front of the strut and is "pinned" by the tube which runs
through the strut, then the whole assembly is welded together. Simple,
lightweight and strong.
Here you can see how the tube pins the tab for the diagonal.
Here is the final assembly, installed on the airplane:
Sorry to bore you with so many pictures, but it occurred to me that if you
are about to build your cabane struts this might be of interest to you.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack Philips
Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2016 5:53 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pauls Piet Build
It is streamlined steel (4130) tubing. I'm not sure what size but I'll
measure it tomorrow.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott
Knowlton
Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2016 2:57 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pauls Piet Build
Jack, I'm very close to the stage of fabricating the diagonals. Yours look
great! What kind of streamlined material did you use?
Scott Knowlton
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 22, 2016, at 2:54 PM, Jack Philips > wrote:
Hah! By the way, over the winter I finally made a new rudder bar pivot and
installed it with two braces. The field repair was working fine, but the
new pivot works better. I brazed the pivot bolt per the plans this time.
I also made new diagonal cabane struts and installed them. The originals
had turnbuckles in order to make adjustments to the wing for C.G. purposes
and would probably not have survived a crash if the plane turned turtle,
which means the pilot would likely not survive. The new struts are much
stronger.
William Wynne should be proud. He had commented years ago that my diagonals
would never withstand a crash. I agreed with him, but it took me a few
years to get around to it.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Marcus
Zechini
Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2016 1:10 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pauls Piet Build
Jack Phillips can, I've heard....
On Mar 22, 2016 10:31 AM, "AircamperN11MS" > wrote:
>
Paul,
I just spotted something you should address before you break your rudder. I
see you have rudder peddles for the rear cockpit. You should add a balance
cable to the system to prevent the chance of putting pressure on both rudder
horns at the same time. Imagine pushing both rudder peddles at the same
time as if applying toe brakes. The rudder horns can't take that type of
load and will pull away from the rudder's front spar.
The easy way is to attach a cable to each of the rear rudder peddles
connecting the two together. The cable should be routed under the front
seat and to the rear of the seat. In a "U" shape while looking from above.
So that if you push forward on the left peddle, the right one will move to
the rear.
I hope I have explain it well enough. The rudder bar does not require the
balance cable since the pilot cannot push forward on both sides at the same
time.
Respectfully,
--------
Scott Liefeld
Flying N11MS since March 1972
Steel Tube
C-85-12
Wire Wheels
Brodhead in 1996
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=453983#453983
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Philips" <jack(at)bedfordlandings.com> |
| Subject: | cabane brace diagonals |
Oscar, that is the reason I elected to replace my "adjustable" diagonals
with more rigid ones
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Oscar Zuniga
Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2016 11:28 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: cabane brace diagonals
Marcus;
The reason why the Grega does not have the diagonals is because of the
geometry of the wing attachments at the top of the cabanes. The Pietenpol
Air Camper wing can pivot on the four cabane struts so it either needs cable
X-braces between the side cabane struts or diagonal braces to restrain
everything from pivoting. The Grega Aircamper mounts the wing to the cabane
struts with the bolts inserted longitudinally, so there is no pivoting of
the wing.
To see the effect on adjustable braces when you put an Air Camper over on
its back, here's what 41CC's braces looked like after it happened:
http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/incident/PB130010.JPG . Once the assembly
yields at any point, it folds up like a two dollar suitcase, thus the
emphasis on connecting the diagonals to the uprights rigidly.
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: cabane brace diagonals |
| From: | "curtdm(at)gmail.com" <curtdm(at)gmail.com> |
1965 GN-1 plans Do show a diagonal brace.
--------
Curt Merdan
Flower Mound, TX
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=454031#454031
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/image_186.jpeg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Pauls Piet Build |
| From: | Scott Knowlton <flyingscott_k(at)hotmail.com> |
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IHJ1ZGRlci4gIEkgc2VlIHlvdSBoYXZlIHJ1ZGRlciBwZWRkbGVzIGZvciB0aGUgcmVhciBjb2Nr
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dmVudCB0aGUgY2hhbmNlIG9mIHB1dHRpbmcgcHJlc3N1cmUgb24gYm90aCBydWRkZXIgaG9ybnMg
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IHRoZSBzYW1lIHRpbWUgYXMgaWYgYXBwbHlpbmcgdG9lIGJyYWtlcy4gIFRoZSBydWRkZXIgaG9y
bnMgY2FuJ3QgdGFrZSB0aGF0IHR5cGUgb2YgbG9hZCBhbmQgd2lsbCBwdWxsIGF3YXkgZnJvbSB0
aGUgcnVkZGVyJ3MgZnJvbnQgc3Bhci4NCj4gDQo+IFRoZSBlYXN5IHdheSBpcyB0byBhdHRhY2gg
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ZXJyZXIiIHRhcmdldD0iX2JsYW5rIj5odHRwOi8vd3d3Lm1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20vY29udHJpYnV0
aW9uDQo+ICAgICAgICAgICAtTWF0dCBEcmFsbGUsIExpc3QgQWRtaW4uDQo+ID09PT09PT09PT09
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PiANCj4gDQo
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: cabane brace diagonals |
| From: | Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com> |
My pietengrega has a diagonal brace.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | cabane brace diagonals |
| From: | Marcus Zechini <marcus.zechini(at)gmail.com> |
Thanks, Oscar & Jack! I like having my neck vertebrae where they are.
That's a scary picture of 41CC
-Zeke
On Mar 23, 2016 12:23 PM, "Jack Philips" wrote:
> Oscar, that is the reason I elected to replace my =9Cadjustable
=9D diagonals
> with more rigid ones
>
>
> Jack Phillips
>
> NX899JP
>
> Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
>
>
> *From:* owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Oscar Zuniga
> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 23, 2016 11:28 AM
> *To:* Pietenpol List
> *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: cabane brace diagonals
>
>
> Marcus;
>
> The reason why the Grega does not have the diagonals is because of the
> geometry of the wing attachments at the top of the cabanes. The Pietenpo
l
> Air Camper wing can pivot on the four cabane struts so it either needs
> cable X-braces between the side cabane struts or diagonal braces
> to restrain everything from pivoting. The Grega Aircamper mounts the win
g
> to the cabane struts with the bolts inserted longitudinally, so there is
no
> pivoting of the wing.
>
> To see the effect on adjustable braces when you put an Air Camper over on
> its back, here's what 41CC's braces looked like after it happened:
> http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/incident/PB130010.JPG . Once the
> assembly yields at any point, it folds up like a two dollar suitcase, thu
s
> the emphasis on connecting the diagonals to the uprights rigidly.
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> Medford, OR
> Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
> A75 power
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: paul's build |
Jack got it right. It is =9CSimplicate and add lightness.=9D
Regardless, the message is the same.
According to Tom Foxworth=99s book The Speed Seekers, page 82, the
above quote is attributed to William (Bill) Bushnell Stout and was his
lifelong doctrine.
Bill Stout was responsible for the design of the all-metal Ford Trimotor
transport.
Cheers,
Graham Hansen (builder of Pietenpol CF-AUN which I flew for nearly 43
years before donating it to a museum)
From: Steven Dortch
Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2016 7:50 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: paul's build
Jack, you did not use the correct terminology!
It is simplificate and add lightness!
If done properly I will help with the levelidity when you formate in
flight.
;=C3=97}
Steve D
On Mar 23, 2016 8:42 AM, "Jack Philips"
wrote:
Douwe (and Paul),
Putting a rudder bar in the front cockpit only alleviates the
potential problem of putting tension on both rudder horns if pushrods
are used to connect the rear rudder pedals to the front rudder bar. If
cables and springs are used, the rear pedals can still both be pushed
and put tension on both rudder horns. The crossover cable suggested by
Scott is a better solution, if for some reason rudder pedals simply have
to be used in the rear cockpit. This seems like another area where one
simple change from the original, time-tested design causes other changes
to ripple through the project, adding weight and complication.
SIMPLICATE AND ADD LIGHTNESS!
As Marcus Zechinni hinted, I broke the rudder bar pivot bolt in mine
last spring, which definitely shows that it is possible to put a good
deal of stress on the pedals/bar. It turned out that the bolt broke due
to cracks caused by welding without removing the cadmium plating, with
Hydrogen embrittlement the likely culprit. I brazed the new one (after
removing the cad plating with muriatic acid) per the plans.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Douwe
Blumberg
Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2016 8:52 AM
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: paul's build
With the original rudder bar, the only pressure that can be
transferred to the rudder horn is the pressure intended by the foot to
pull the rudder over. IF/when pressure is placed on both sides of the
bar, the pivot point takes the stress and it isn=99t transferred
to the horn. If rudder pedals are installed instead of the bar, one
could press on both pedals and those stresses to straight to the rudder
horn, not good. Pressure from both feet happens more than one would
expect. As mentioned, during rough landings, we often inadvertently
push both sides. Even cruising around, I find both feet putting some
pressure on the bar.
IF replacing the rudder bar with pedals, there absolutely must be some
sort of cable system as mentioned to eliminate this issue.
Another option is to use a rudder bar up front and run hook your back
pedals to the bar and let the bar=99s pivot point take the stress.
I feel this is a must.
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: paul's build |
| From: | Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com> |
Graham, disirregardless, I was just poking fun. After all the basic purpose
of a piet is to have fun until you have arriven at your destination.
But you know that having built and flown one extensively. My hat is off to
you!
Please chime in more often to share your experience!
Blue Skies,
Steve D
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Pauls Piet Build |
| From: | "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca> |
Steve,
The balance cable needs to run backwards, then turn around 180 degrees, back to
the other rudder pedal. You will need to use pulleys for directional changes
like that - not just a phenolic block.
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=454046#454046
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Pauls Piet Build |
| From: | Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com> |
Makes sense. Thanks Bill.
Steve D
On Mar 23, 2016 3:40 PM, "Bill Church" wrote:
> billspiet(at)sympatico.ca>
>
> Steve,
> The balance cable needs to run backwards, then turn around 180 degrees,
> back to the other rudder pedal. You will need to use pulleys for
> directional changes like that - not just a phenolic block.
>
> Bill C.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=454046#454046
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: paul's build |
Steve,
Yeah, I guess I am too serious and nitpicky. That happens to one after
being a high school teacher for too many years.
I sure had fun with my Piet, though. It was a great sportplane, but the
climate here in central Alberta, Canada, is suitable
for open cockpit flying only about five months of the year. The other
seven months were not much fun and I put only
about 860 hours on it because I always had other more comfortable
airplanes to fly in winter.
BTW, I had rudder pedals for the rear seat and a rudder bar for the
front seat, connected by cables. There never was a
problem with this setup. However, the idea of using a balance cable to
avoid overstressing the rudder horn is a good one.
Graham
From: Steven Dortch
Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2016 2:33 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: paul's build
Graham, disirregardless, I was just poking fun. After all the basic
purpose of a piet is to have fun until you have arriven at your
destination.
But you know that having built and flown one extensively. My hat is off
to you!
Please chime in more often to share your experience!
Blue Skies,
Steve D
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: paul's build |
| From: | Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com> |
Graham, did you ever fly it off of skis?
A rancher in the Texas panhandle flew his Pietenpol on skis year round.
When the short grass was dead and brown it was slick enough to use skis. He
built the pietenpol and after a few lessons, taught himself to fly. He used
it mostly to check his cattle and rarely left his ranch airspace.
Blue skies,
Steve D
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: paul's build |
Steve,
Oh, I did fly it on skis! In fact, the initial test flight November 15,
1970 was done with skis. I used to fly it at least once every month of
the year and, in winter, was so heavily dressed that the cockpit was a
tight fit=94even though I had made the fuselage two inches wider
in the cockpit area than the plans specified. It was an excellent
skiplane, but had a lousy heater. In later years, I rarely flew it
during the winter because I wasn=99t as tough as I once was (just
as crazy, though). I toyed with the idea of building a canopy for the
rear cockpit, but never got around to doing so. However, nobody was
interested in winter flying with me so I made a cover for the front pit
and that helped some.
I remember reading about the fellow in Texas who flew his on skis and
rescued some blizzard-bound people. He must have been a tough and
resourceful individual!
Cheers,
Graham
From: Steven Dortch
Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2016 4:59 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: paul's build
Graham, did you ever fly it off of skis?
A rancher in the Texas panhandle flew his Pietenpol on skis year round.
When the short grass was dead and brown it was slick enough to use skis.
He built the pietenpol and after a few lessons, taught himself to fly.
He used it mostly to check his cattle and rarely left his ranch
airspace.
Blue skies,
Steve D
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: paul's build |
| From: | Marcus Zechini <marcus.zechini(at)gmail.com> |
My Grega has Cub gear. Federal 1500s await in the hangar. The one good snow
we had this winter blocked the hangar door. I will put them on, eventually.
Zeke
On Mar 23, 2016 7:40 PM, "Graham Hansen" <ghans@cable-lynx.net> wrote:
> *Steve,*
>
> *Oh, I did fly it on skis! In fact, the initial test flight November 15,
> 1970 was done with skis. I used to fly it at least once every month of th
e
> year and, in winter, was so heavily dressed that the cockpit was a tight
> fit=94even though I had made the fuselage two inches wider in the c
ockpit
> area than the plans specified. It was an excellent skiplane, but had a
> lousy heater. In later years, I rarely flew it during the winter because
I
> wasn=99t as tough as I once was (just as crazy, though). I toyed wi
th the
> idea of building a canopy for the rear cockpit, but never got around to
> doing so. However, nobody was interested in winter flying with me so I ma
de
> a cover for the front pit and that helped some.*
>
> *I remember reading about the fellow in Texas who flew his on skis and
> rescued some blizzard-bound people. He must have been a tough and
> resourceful individual!*
>
> *Cheers,*
>
> *Graham*
>
>
> *From:* Steven Dortch
> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 23, 2016 4:59 PM
> *To:* pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: paul's build
>
>
> Graham, did you ever fly it off of skis?
>
> A rancher in the Texas panhandle flew his Pietenpol on skis year round.
> When the short grass was dead and brown it was slick enough to use skis.
He
> built the pietenpol and after a few lessons, taught himself to fly. He us
ed
> it mostly to check his cattle and rarely left his ranch airspace.
>
> Blue skies,
> Steve D
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Pauls Piet Build |
| From: | "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org> |
Paul,
It doesn't necessarily need to be under the passenger seat. You could put it behind
the pilots seat and tie the rudder cables together there. Then you would
not even see them when looking in the cockpits. As clean as your plane is I
think I would not want to see the extra stuff in the cockpit when looking at it.
Again, your plane is top notch.
I attached a sketch of a way to accomplish the task and still hide it from view.
Good luck with it Sir,
--------
Scott Liefeld
Flying N11MS since March 1972
Steel Tube
C-85-12
Wire Wheels
Brodhead in 1996
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=454081#454081
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/slafd_suppl16032406050_821.pdf
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Pauls Piet Build |
| From: | "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com> |
Paul,
Nice work. The only question I have is about vertical stab offset. Here is a link
to an earlier discussion of the topic, so you will understand what I am getting
at-
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=92890&highlight=vertoffset
It appears that you may have some offset already built in, but you do not have
the ability to adjust your vertical stabilizer (see screenshot). Did you already
put in some offset, and, if so, how much? How do you plan to adjust it if it
is too much/not enough?
Like I said, really nice work. Just that question.
--------
Semper Fi,
Terry Hand
Athens, GA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=454120#454120
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/screen_shot_2016_03_25_at_92524_am_965.png
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Pauls Piet Build |
| From: | "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com> |
Paul,
Thanks for the explanation.
Your woodworking skills make me look like piker. I think you are the cabinet maker
on the job site and I am just the framer's assistant, not even the framer.
--------
Semper Fi,
Terry Hand
Athens, GA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=454125#454125
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Pauls Piet Build |
| From: | "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
Scott: nice little sketch of how to do the run-around loop. If a builder installs
a belly access panel like Corky did on 41CC, and if the run-around loop is
run either behind the pilot's seat or just aft of the belly panel, it will make
inspection and installation of the run-around cable and pulleys much easier.
I know the panel really helps when working on or inspecting the elevator bellcrank
back there.
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=454131#454131
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Pauls Piet Build |
| From: | "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org> |
Oscar,
All your points are good ones too. Easy access is always a good thing. Especially
if you can't see it from the top or sides of the plane.
Thank you,
--------
Scott Liefeld
Flying N11MS since March 1972
Steel Tube
C-85-12
Wire Wheels
Brodhead in 1996
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=454132#454132
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Pauls Piet Build |
| From: | "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org> |
Paul,
I have seen it bend similar to your description and I have seen the spar where
it is attached incur damage as well. The french valley piet received damage after
they converted to rudder peddles. When I made the first flight on that plan
it had a rudder bar. Those guys made a heavier control horn to replace the
bent one. I think the cable is the best and easiest way to prevent damage.
On a side note. I have 4130 steel tail surfaces and rudder peddles without any
balance cable. Mine has been fine for 44 years now. No brakes to push on either.
The wood structure is what concerns me when looking at peoples projects.
BTW, I am an EAA Tech Counselor.
Cheers,
--------
Scott Liefeld
Flying N11MS since March 1972
Steel Tube
C-85-12
Wire Wheels
Brodhead in 1996
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=454147#454147
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ray Krause <raykrause(at)frontiernet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Pauls Piet Build |
Scott,
Since you have no brakes, how do you do a run up? Do you use the "Whoa Stick" regularly?
How is it anchored to the fuselage? You have a steel tube fuselage,
right? Guess the would make the "Whoa Stick" easier to install.
I have installed brakes, but they are just 6" Azusa drum brakes that "might" hold
the 19" wheels for a modest runup? To be seen.
Lots of questions!
Thanks,
Ray Krause
Sent from my iPad
> On Mar 25, 2016, at 2:13 PM, AircamperN11MS wrote:
>
>
> Paul,
>
> I have seen it bend similar to your description and I have seen the spar where
it is attached incur damage as well. The french valley piet received damage
after they converted to rudder peddles. When I made the first flight on that
plan it had a rudder bar. Those guys made a heavier control horn to replace
the bent one. I think the cable is the best and easiest way to prevent damage.
>
> On a side note. I have 4130 steel tail surfaces and rudder peddles without any
balance cable. Mine has been fine for 44 years now. No brakes to push on either.
>
> The wood structure is what concerns me when looking at peoples projects.
>
> BTW, I am an EAA Tech Counselor.
>
> Cheers,
>
> --------
> Scott Liefeld
> Flying N11MS since March 1972
> Steel Tube
> C-85-12
> Wire Wheels
> Brodhead in 1996
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=454147#454147
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Pauls Piet Build |
| From: | "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org> |
Ray,
Let's see, I rarely use the Whoa Stick. Only if the wind is blowing me somewhere
I don't want to be. I will check my mags during taxi although I can hold the
plane with the Whoa Stick for a 1200RPM run up. I keep the air pressure very
low in my tires to help slow me after landing and during taxi. Ever try to push
a car with flat tires? The stick is attached to the torque tube for my elevator
controls. I will show you how the stick is attached in June.
--------
Scott Liefeld
Flying N11MS since March 1972
Steel Tube
C-85-12
Wire Wheels
Brodhead in 1996
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=454164#454164
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Pauls Piet Build |
| From: | "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org> |
Your welcome Paul. I like that we all help each other. It keeps us safe and hopefully
prevents doing the work more than one time.
Cheers,
--------
Scott Liefeld
Flying N11MS since March 1972
Steel Tube
C-85-12
Wire Wheels
Brodhead in 1996
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=454165#454165
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Boyer <boyerjrb(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Pauls Piet Build |
Hi Ray, I have a question about your wing strut aluminium fittings. Where they
bolt to the wing did you leave them square at that end or did you round them off?
If rounded them off how did you round them.
Thanks, just doing lots of little stuff waiting for less humidity to finish painting.
Jim B.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douwe Blumberg" <douwe(at)douwestudios.com> |
| Subject: | First fight of the season |
Just got in the first flight of the season this afternoon. Absolutely
gorgeous early spring day. Shook her out for thirty minutes all's good.
Didn't feel rusty at all, even with a little crosswind on the asphalt.
Keep building, it's worth it!!!
Happy Resurrection day!!
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: First fight of the season |
| From: | "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
Sure looks like a lovely day in the photographs there! We're still in the cold
and cloudy time just before spring kicks in and gets going. Won't be long now!
As soon as I can get Scout primed up and flying, I'll check the angle of the
longerons in level flight.
And a blessed Resurrection Sunday to you too, Douwe! Thanks for posting.
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=454198#454198
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ray Krause <raykrause(at)frontiernet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Pauls Piet Build |
Jim,
They are rounded off, but I did not do it. My friend, Merle did it with his m
illing machine. I had to make "U" joints to attach them to the wing because
the wing is not lined up with the bottom attach points on the fuselage. I c
an get a picture of these, if you want. Merle could have made fancy ones on
the milling machine, but Bernard would have frowned on that!
You only need the "U" joints if the wing is not vertical on the cabanes, min
e are slanted back 5.5".
I only have to paint one more side of the left wing panel, should finish Tue
sday. The clear coat did not work out on the fabric because the cement turn
ed dark brown with time. It looked like shit! All the clear coated fabric is
now BRIGHT yellow...with red trim! If they don't see me coming, it's their f
ault!
My smoke system is done, but only a 1 gallon tank, for now.
Sent from my iPad
> On Mar 26, 2016, at 6:51 AM, Jim Boyer wrote:
>
> Hi Ray, I have a question about your wing strut aluminium fittings. Where t
hey bolt to the wing did you leave them square at that end or did you round t
hem off? If rounded them off how did you round them.
> Thanks, just doing lots of little stuff waiting for less humidity to finis
h painting.
> Jim B.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ray Krause <raykrause(at)frontiernet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: First fight of the season |
Beautiful! I could be flying this Summer...maybe!
Ray Krause
Building SkyScout
Sent from my iPad
> On Mar 26, 2016, at 6:40 PM, Douwe Blumberg wrote:
>
> Just got in the first flight of the season this afternoon. Absolutely
> gorgeous early spring day. Shook her out for thirty minutes all's good.
> Didn't feel rusty at all, even with a little crosswind on the asphalt.
>
> Keep building, it's worth it!!!
>
> Happy Resurrection day!!
>
> Douwe
> <11951635_10203233941729542_1961460906553545190_o.jpg>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: First fight of the season |
| From: | "Rock-a-Wing" <majrocca(at)gmail.com> |
Love the color scheme!
Happy Resurrection day, indeed!!
John in Pittsburgh
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=454215#454215
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Looking for Steve Statkus |
Anybody on the list know Steve Statkus from Hamilton=2C Ohio? He has three
aircraft current on the FAA registry... a Schweizer=2C a Spezio Sport=2C a
nd an Aeronca 7AC. Back in the mid-1990s Kitplanes did a writeup on the Lo
ngster that Steve built=2C powered by a 1/2 VW=2C operated out of Fairfield
=2C OH. I'm trying to get in touch with him to pick his brain about buildi
ng the Longster.
Thanks=2C and I hope everyone is enjoying a restful holiday weekend.
Oscar Zuniga
Medford=2C OR
Air Camper NX41CC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Glen Schweizer <glenschweizer(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Looking for Steve Statkus |
Hi Oscar
This is probably already been sourced but check flying and glider manual?
Glen. Pietenpol Aerial in progress
Sent from my iPhone
> On Mar 27, 2016, at 10:05 AM, Oscar Zuniga wrote:
>
> Anybody on the list know Steve Statkus from Hamilton, Ohio? He has three a
ircraft current on the FAA registry... a Schweizer, a Spezio Sport, and an A
eronca 7AC. Back in the mid-1990s Kitplanes did a writeup on the Longster t
hat Steve built, powered by a 1/2 VW, operated out of Fairfield, OH. I'm tr
ying to get in touch with him to pick his brain about building the Longster.
>
> Thanks, and I hope everyone is enjoying a restful holiday weekend.
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> Medford, OR
> Air Camper NX41CC
>
>
==========================
==========================
==========================
==========================
==========================
==========================
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Looking for Steve Statkus |
| From: | "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
Glen;
Of course I have the 1933 Flying & Glider Manual, from whence has come my interest
in the Longster to begin with. The plans are in that edition of the F&GM
but Steve built his version using a welded frame rather than the gusseted, pinned,
and brazed joints that Les Long used on the original.
Thanks for the reply though.
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=454233#454233
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Looking for Steve Statkus |
| From: | "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com> |
Oscar,
Check your email.
--------
Semper Fi,
Terry Hand
Athens, GA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=454245#454245
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Riblett 613.5 plans |
| From: | Ken Chambers <ken.riffic(at)gmail.com> |
I'm looking for copy of the Riblett 613.5 plans created by Roman Buckholt
specifically for the Pietenpol.
Anyone have a spare copy sitting around? Used is fine, as long as it's
still in one piece.
Be glad to pay shipping plus costs.
--
Ken Chambers
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Pauls Piet Build |
| From: | Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com> |
Ray, those struts look great. I covet them! Mine are a set if Piper cub
struts cut down. Solid but heavy.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Pauls Piet Build |
| From: | "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
Steve;
Unless I'm mistaken, those aluminum pieces of Ray's are just the strut ends, not
the struts themselves. If I recall correctly, those aluminum square stock parts
slide up into the inside of Carlson aluminum streamline tube struts and provide
a way to attach the upper ends of the struts to the wing attach fittings
(with bolts), and the lower ends of the struts to the lower attach points (with
adjustable fork ends). You can see the Carlson strut material here:
http://www.carlsonaircraft.com/struts.html
Note that they have small, large, heavy duty, and jury strut material as well as
standard round and square shapes as well.
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=454254#454254
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ray Krause <raykrause(at)frontiernet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Pauls Piet Build |
Oscar and Steve,
That is correct. Those are my set of strut ends, made by my very good friend, Merle
Reppert. As Oscar said, they fit into the ends of the Carlson aluminum struts...attached
by two AN-3 bolts each.
I thought I was responding only to Jim with a private email, did not know everyone
on the Forum would receive it!
Thanks,
Ray Krause
Sent from my iPad
> On Mar 27, 2016, at 8:29 PM, taildrags wrote:
>
>
> Steve;
>
> Unless I'm mistaken, those aluminum pieces of Ray's are just the strut ends,
not the struts themselves. If I recall correctly, those aluminum square stock
parts slide up into the inside of Carlson aluminum streamline tube struts and
provide a way to attach the upper ends of the struts to the wing attach fittings
(with bolts), and the lower ends of the struts to the lower attach points
(with adjustable fork ends). You can see the Carlson strut material here:
>
> http://www.carlsonaircraft.com/struts.html
>
> Note that they have small, large, heavy duty, and jury strut material as well
as standard round and square shapes as well.
>
> --------
> Oscar Zuniga
> Medford, OR
> Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
> A75 power
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=454254#454254
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: First fight of the season |
| From: | "Charles N. Campbell" <charlescampbell1924(at)gmail.com> |
I love you guys calling it "Resurrection Day"!!! That's my name for it,
too. C
On Sat, Mar 26, 2016 at 10:19 PM, taildrags wrote:
>
> Sure looks like a lovely day in the photographs there! We're still in the
> cold and cloudy time just before spring kicks in and gets going. Won't be
> long now! As soon as I can get Scout primed up and flying, I'll check the
> angle of the longerons in level flight.
>
> And a blessed Resurrection Sunday to you too, Douwe! Thanks for posting.
>
> --------
> Oscar Zuniga
> Medford, OR
> Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
> A75 power
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=454198#454198
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Riblett 613.5 plans |
| From: | "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com> |
Ken,
In this day of internet and email, I can't imagine why anyone would need to mail
you a copy of the airfoil. Also, it can be found in numerous websites as matters
of public record.
Here is the copy I made for my ribs. Notice that there is no angle built in. By
that I mean the spars and verticals are perpendicular to the chord line.
This is a full sized copy, and can be taken down to your local Kinko's and printed
on their big printing machine for a couple of bucks a copy.
It is free for anyone to use, but obviously done so at your own risk, much like
everything else in experimental aviation.
--------
Semper Fi,
Terry Hand
Athens, GA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=454260#454260
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/riblett_6135_205.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Boyer <boyerjrb(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Pauls Piet Build |
Hi Ray,
I don't know what you mean by U joints because the wings are slanted back 5.5"
My wings are back 4" but everything lines up fine for the threaded fork on one
end and the drilled blocks on the top end fastened to the wings ligr strut fittings.
Are the fuselage or wing fittings different on the Sky Scout?
Thanks very much for the photos; that is really what I needed to see to finish
mine.
Cheers,
Jim B.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ray Krause <raykrause(at)frontiernet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Pauls Piet Build |
Jim,
When I assembled my SkyScout prior to covering it, the struts would not fit i
nto the wing fittings on the spars. The strut attach hardware on the spars a
re parallel with the spars, so the struts have to be within a few degrees of
parallel with the spars. That means the lower strut attach points have to b
e pretty much right under the spar. On the SkyScout, the spars are about 6"
behind the lower strut attach points. The struts pivot just fine at the l
ower attach point with the swivel joint. See photo:
Note that the bottom of the cabane struts are lined up with the lower attach
points for the struts above the gear brackets. But the top of the cabanes (
they attach to the spar) are 6" behind the bottom of the cabanes. Therefore
, the upper strut attachment hardware will not fit into the spar brackets!
Therefore I made the "U-joints" for the top strut attachments.
They fit on the wing like this:
You may not have this problem on the AirCamper.
I hope my explanation is understandable; it's a little hard to explain!
Maybe I could explain it better on the phone,
Ray
Sent from my iPad
> On Mar 28, 2016, at 11:12 AM, Jim Boyer wrote:
>
> Hi Ray,
> I don't know what you mean by U joints because the wings are slanted back 5
.5" My wings are back 4" but everything lines up fine for the threaded fork o
n one end and the drilled blocks on the top end fastened to the wings ligr s
trut fittings.
>
> Are the fuselage or wing fittings different on the Sky Scout?
> Thanks very much for the photos; that is really what I needed to see to fi
nish mine.
> Cheers,
> Jim B.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Cardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Pauls Piet Build |
Here is another alternative for dealing with lift strut ends.
Greg Cardinal
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Pauls Piet Build |
| From: | "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
Ray;
Now look, I'm not trying to cause trouble here, but I'm an engineer and I question
stuff. You mentioned that you were using two AN3 bolts to attach each end
of your lift struts to the strut end fittings. Then I see Greg's picture showing
*four* bolts through the strut and fitting on his airplane. I have not done
the analysis of the shear where the AN3 bolts go through the Carlson aluminum
struts but it might be useful to do a little pencil and paper work to study
that. Two bolts might not be enough to keep the bolts from elongating the holes
under design stress, and it's not like you don't have long enough end fittings
to permit you to add more bolts through the strut and fitting to provide
more pull-out strength if it's needed. Worst case, it will cost you some additional
AN3 bolts and hardware.
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=454292#454292
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Cardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Pauls Piet Build |
Three bolts would have been enough.
My technical counselor likes to use the British engineering manuals which
are sometimes more conservative when it comes to strength of materials.
There are several Pietenpols flying around using two bolts in their Carlson
struts as Ray will be using so that's proof that two bolts will work.
If I were using two bolts I would check the struts for bolt hole elongation
at each condition inspection.
Greg Cardinal
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of taildrags
Sent: Monday, March 28, 2016 11:59 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pauls Piet Build
-->
Ray;
Now look, I'm not trying to cause trouble here, but I'm an engineer and I
question stuff. You mentioned that you were using two AN3 bolts to attach
each end of your lift struts to the strut end fittings. Then I see Greg's
picture showing *four* bolts through the strut and fitting on his airplane.
I have not done the analysis of the shear where the AN3 bolts go through the
Carlson aluminum struts but it might be useful to do a little pencil and
paper work to study that. Two bolts might not be enough to keep the bolts
from elongating the holes under design stress, and it's not like you don't
have long enough end fittings to permit you to add more bolts through the
strut and fitting to provide more pull-out strength if it's needed. Worst
case, it will cost you some additional AN3 bolts and hardware.
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=454292#454292
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Pauls Piet Build |
| From: | Charles Burkholder <born2fly(at)abcmailbox.net> |
Me and Scott Knowlton are doing the same method with the Carlson struts.
Our friend Brian Kenney did the analysis and calculated that there
should be 3 bolts used.
Charles
On 3/28/2016 11:59 PM, taildrags wrote:
>
> Ray;
>
> Now look, I'm not trying to cause trouble here, but I'm an engineer and I question
stuff. You mentioned that you were using two AN3 bolts to attach each end
of your lift struts to the strut end fittings. Then I see Greg's picture showing
*four* bolts through the strut and fitting on his airplane. I have not
done the analysis of the shear where the AN3 bolts go through the Carlson aluminum
struts but it might be useful to do a little pencil and paper work to study
that. Two bolts might not be enough to keep the bolts from elongating the
holes under design stress, and it's not like you don't have long enough end fittings
to permit you to add more bolts through the strut and fitting to provide
more pull-out strength if it's needed. Worst case, it will cost you some additional
AN3 bolts and hardware.
>
> --------
> Oscar Zuniga
> Medford, OR
> Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
> A75 power
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=454292#454292
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Franklin <jbfjr(at)peoplepc.com> |
Most of the fuel tanks I've seen mentioned on this forum have been made of aluminum.
Has anyone used galvanized steel and sealed it by soldering the seams?
Would this method be acceptable?
Thanks,
John Franklin
Prairie Aire 4TA0
Needville, TX
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Philips" <jack(at)bedfordlandings.com> |
Acceptable but very heavy. The original tanks were made of terneplate, which is steel sheet coated with an alloy of 20% tin and 80% lead. It soldered very well. Soldering galvanized steel, which is coated with zinc is much more difficult and requires special solder alloys and special flux. One method is shown here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7Imxj2_nXw
I riveted my tank together out of 5052 aluminum alloy, then had it TIG welded around
all the edges and over each rivet. During leak testing I found 39 pinhole
leaks and took it back to the welder. After re-welding over those 39 leaks
I only found 9 leaks. Third time was the charm and it has been leak free ever
since.
However, if I were to do it again I would just rivet it together and use the Flamemaster
Dyna-Seal product that I used when building the tanks for my RV-10.
This is what Van's Aircraft uses for all their fuel tanks and it must be pretty
successful since there are literally thousands of airplanes flying using this
method. It is easy (if somewhat messy) to build a good fuel tank with this
method, and the tank doesn't warp during welding like most welded tanks do (mine
included).
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Franklin
Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2016 9:23 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fuel tanks
Most of the fuel tanks I've seen mentioned on this forum have been made of aluminum.
Has anyone used galvanized steel and sealed it by soldering the seams?
Would this method be acceptable?
Thanks,
John Franklin
Prairie Aire 4TA0
Needville, TX
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fairfield, Mike" <MFairfield(at)hewitt.ca> |
Good morning Jack,
Your method of riveting the 5052 aluminum and sealing it sounds interesting.
I checked on the Flamemaster web site and entered dyna-seal and came up empty.
By any chance would you have the product number stowed away somewhere? They
have many different products and I wanted to find the proper sealant.
Thanks, Mike.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack Philips
Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2016 10:18 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Fuel tanks
-->
Acceptable but very heavy. The original tanks were made of terneplate, which is steel sheet coated with an alloy of 20% tin and 80% lead. It soldered very well. Soldering galvanized steel, which is coated with zinc is much more difficult and requires special solder alloys and special flux. One method is shown here: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.youtube.com_watch-3Fv-3Du7Imxj2-5FnXw&d=CwIDaQ&c=epcZb5jdh1ysHc2TC_uZEMpi5Xp3bPQPSZatc6SDw3A&r=hRt1T_6xXLTFw-Pi77z3ka1Hyoflt0RLKFhpWJWpHdk&m=BvruWqxPvEdKv231NBgax6irNcRiKLg65IFRcwX8Agc&s=CSlxupiocGrEqE-_kfDsU1JkXn3xMpEeeyVXVXTZZ0k&e=
I riveted my tank together out of 5052 aluminum alloy, then had it TIG welded around
all the edges and over each rivet. During leak testing I found 39 pinhole
leaks and took it back to the welder. After re-welding over those 39 leaks
I only found 9 leaks. Third time was the charm and it has been leak free ever
since.
However, if I were to do it again I would just rivet it together and use the Flamemaster
Dyna-Seal product that I used when building the tanks for my RV-10.
This is what Van's Aircraft uses for all their fuel tanks and it must be pretty
successful since there are literally thousands of airplanes flying using this
method. It is easy (if somewhat messy) to build a good fuel tank with this
method, and the tank doesn't warp during welding like most welded tanks do (mine
included).
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Franklin
Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2016 9:23 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fuel tanks
Most of the fuel tanks I've seen mentioned on this forum have been made of aluminum.
Has anyone used galvanized steel and sealed it by soldering the seams?
Would this method be acceptable?
Thanks,
John Franklin
Prairie Aire 4TA0
Needville, TX
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Hans van der Voort <nx15kv(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pauls Piet Build |
I recommend using at least three AN 3 bolts or two AN 4 and torque down wit
h proper torque setting.Do not rely on the bolt diameter in shear.But use t
he clamp friction to take the load, this avoids elongation of the holeMake
sure you have a tight fit between strut insert and strut before torque is a
pplied on boltUse flat washers under bolt and nut to create enough surface
area.=C2-Remember that extra bolt and nut weighs a lot less than a fancy
paint job,=C2-and a fancy paint job does not make you plane safer.=C2-J
ust my 2 cents=C2-Hans van der Voort=C2-NX15KV with welded struts
From: Charles Burkholder <born2fly(at)abcmailbox.net>
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2016 7:30 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pauls Piet Build
ox.net>
Me and Scott Knowlton are doing the same method with the Carlson struts.
Our friend Brian Kenney did the analysis and calculated that there
should be 3 bolts used.
Charles
On 3/28/2016 11:59 PM, taildrags wrote:
>
> Ray;
>
> Now look, I'm not trying to cause trouble here, but I'm an engineer and I
question stuff.=C2- You mentioned that you were using two AN3 bolts to a
ttach each end of your lift struts to the strut end fittings.=C2- Then I
see Greg's picture showing *four* bolts through the strut and fitting on hi
s airplane.=C2- I have not done the analysis of the shear where the AN3 b
olts go through the Carlson aluminum struts but it might be useful to do a
little pencil and paper work to study that.=C2- Two bolts might not be en
ough to keep the bolts from elongating the holes under design stress, and i
t's not like you don't have long enough end fittings to permit you to add m
ore bolts through the strut and fitting to provide more pull-out strength i
f it's needed.=C2- Worst case, it will cost you some additional AN3 bolts
and hardware.
>
> --------
> Oscar Zuniga
> Medford, OR
> Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
> A75 power
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=454292#454292
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>
>
=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
S -
-
=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Hans van der Voort <nx15kv(at)yahoo.com> |
John,=C2-The oldies used a lot of terne plate, essentially steel with lea
d/tin coating.It would solder real good as the coating was the same materia
l as standard Solder.=C2-Galvanized steel is a zinc based coating, so you
will need a zinc based Solder.=C2-Another alternative is Aluminum rivete
d tank (solid rivets) and use a fuel tank sealer.=C2-Hans van der Voort
=C2-NX15KV with aluminum welded=C2-tank(s)
From: John Franklin <jbfjr(at)peoplepc.com>
To: Piet_List
Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2016 8:22 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fuel tanks
Most of the fuel tanks I've seen mentioned on this forum have been made of
aluminum.=C2- Has anyone used galvanized steel and sealed it by soldering
the seams?=C2-
Would this method be acceptable?
Thanks,
John Franklin
Prairie Aire 4TA0
Needville, TX
=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
S -
-
=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ray Krause <raykrause(at)frontiernet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Pauls Piet Build |
Oscar and others,
I miss-typed. The strut ends are secured by two AN4 bolts. I'm not an engineer
so I welcome the comments and help. I will add another bolt as it will be very
easy to do and there is plenty of material, as Greg pointed out. My fear was
that too many bolts might create a weak point in the strut where all the holes
were lined up.
Now the strut end is attached to the wing with ONLY two AN5 bolts. Maybe the weakest
point will now be the weld joint on the U-joint? Any comments are gratefully
welcome.
What a great Forum,
Ray Krause
Sent from my iPad
> On Mar 28, 2016, at 9:59 PM, taildrags wrote:
>
>
> Ray;
>
> Now look, I'm not trying to cause trouble here, but I'm an engineer and I question
stuff. You mentioned that you were using two AN3 bolts to attach each end
of your lift struts to the strut end fittings. Then I see Greg's picture showing
*four* bolts through the strut and fitting on his airplane. I have not
done the analysis of the shear where the AN3 bolts go through the Carlson aluminum
struts but it might be useful to do a little pencil and paper work to study
that. Two bolts might not be enough to keep the bolts from elongating the
holes under design stress, and it's not like you don't have long enough end fittings
to permit you to add more bolts through the strut and fitting to provide
more pull-out strength if it's needed. Worst case, it will cost you some additional
AN3 bolts and hardware.
>
> --------
> Oscar Zuniga
> Medford, OR
> Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
> A75 power
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=454292#454292
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jack <jack(at)textors.com> |
Mike go to Van's RV site, they have it...
Sent from my iPad
Jack Textor
> On Mar 29, 2016, at 9:40 AM, Fairfield, Mike wrote:
>
>
> Good morning Jack,
>
> Your method of riveting the 5052 aluminum and sealing it sounds interesting.
I checked on the Flamemaster web site and entered dyna-seal and came up empty.
By any chance would you have the product number stowed away somewhere?
They have many different products and I wanted to find the proper sealant.
>
> Thanks, Mike.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack Philips
> Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2016 10:18 AM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Fuel tanks
>
> -->
>
> Acceptable but very heavy. The original tanks were made of terneplate, which is steel sheet coated with an alloy of 20% tin and 80% lead. It soldered very well. Soldering galvanized steel, which is coated with zinc is much more difficult and requires special solder alloys and special flux. One method is shown here: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.youtube.com_watch-3Fv-3Du7Imxj2-5FnXw&d=CwIDaQ&c=epcZb5jdh1ysHc2TC_uZEMpi5Xp3bPQPSZatc6SDw3A&r=hRt1T_6xXLTFw-Pi77z3ka1Hyoflt0RLKFhpWJWpHdk&m=BvruWqxPvEdKv231NBgax6irNcRiKLg65IFRcwX8Agc&s=CSlxupiocGrEqE-_kfDsU1JkXn3xMpEeeyVXVXTZZ0k&e=
>
> I riveted my tank together out of 5052 aluminum alloy, then had it TIG welded
around all the edges and over each rivet. During leak testing I found 39 pinhole
leaks and took it back to the welder. After re-welding over those 39 leaks
I only found 9 leaks. Third time was the charm and it has been leak free ever
since.
>
> However, if I were to do it again I would just rivet it together and use the
Flamemaster Dyna-Seal product that I used when building the tanks for my RV-10.
This is what Van's Aircraft uses for all their fuel tanks and it must be pretty
successful since there are literally thousands of airplanes flying using
this method. It is easy (if somewhat messy) to build a good fuel tank with this
method, and the tank doesn't warp during welding like most welded tanks do
(mine included).
>
> Jack Phillips
> NX899JP
> Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Franklin
> Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2016 9:23 AM
> To: Piet_List
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fuel tanks
>
>
> Most of the fuel tanks I've seen mentioned on this forum have been made of aluminum.
Has anyone used galvanized steel and sealed it by soldering the seams?
> Would this method be acceptable?
>
> Thanks,
> John Franklin
> Prairie Aire 4TA0
> Needville, TX
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca> |
Mike,
Following is a link to the Vans website. You can buy the sealant from them:
https://vansaircraft.com/cgi-bin/store.cgi?ident=1459270708-404-534&browse=misc&product=proseal
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=454324#454324
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | vic groah <vicgroah(at)gmail.com> |
On galvanized soldered tanks I have a 1907 car that has a galvanized
riveted and soldered gas tank that has stood over 100 years of intense
vibration of a two hundred cubic inch two cylinder engine and still does
not leak No sealer needed. It is just heavy. We make our piet tank of
aluminum sheet and welded it together and need no sealer but put on an
aircraft epoxy sealer on the joints out side just to be safe. No problems
so far. Much less weight.
On Tue, Mar 29, 2016 at 9:49 AM, Jack wrote:
>
> Mike go to Van's RV site, they have it...
>
> Sent from my iPad
> Jack Textor
>
> > On Mar 29, 2016, at 9:40 AM, Fairfield, Mike
> wrote:
> >
> MFairfield(at)hewitt.ca>
> >
> > Good morning Jack,
> >
> > Your method of riveting the 5052 aluminum and sealing it sounds
> interesting. I checked on the Flamemaster web site and entered dyna-seal
> and came up empty. By any chance would you have the product number stowe
d
> away somewhere? They have many different products and I wanted to find t
he
> proper sealant.
> >
> > Thanks, Mike.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack Philips
> > Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2016 10:18 AM
> > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> > Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Fuel tanks
> >
> > -->
> >
> > Acceptable but very heavy. The original tanks were made of terneplate,
> which is steel sheet coated with an alloy of 20% tin and 80% lead. It
> soldered very well. Soldering galvanized steel, which is coated with zin
c
> is much more difficult and requires special solder alloys and special
> flux. One method is shown here:
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.youtube.com_wat
ch-3Fv-3Du7Imxj2-5FnXw&d=CwIDaQ&c=epcZb5jdh1ysHc2TC_uZEMpi5Xp3bPQPSZatc
6SDw3A&r=hRt1T_6xXLTFw-Pi77z3ka1Hyoflt0RLKFhpWJWpHdk&m=BvruWqxPvEdKv231
NBgax6irNcRiKLg65IFRcwX8Agc&s=CSlxupiocGrEqE-_kfDsU1JkXn3xMpEeeyVXVXTZZ0k
&e
> >
> > I riveted my tank together out of 5052 aluminum alloy, then had it TIG
> welded around all the edges and over each rivet. During leak testing I
> found 39 pinhole leaks and took it back to the welder. After re-welding
> over those 39 leaks I only found 9 leaks. Third time was the charm and i
t
> has been leak free ever since.
> >
> > However, if I were to do it again I would just rivet it together and us
e
> the Flamemaster Dyna-Seal product that I used when building the tanks for
> my RV-10. This is what Van's Aircraft uses for all their fuel tanks and
it
> must be pretty successful since there are literally thousands of airplane
s
> flying using this method. It is easy (if somewhat messy) to build a good
> fuel tank with this method, and the tank doesn't warp during welding like
> most welded tanks do (mine included).
> >
> > Jack Phillips
> > NX899JP
> > Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Franklin
> > Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2016 9:23 AM
> > To: Piet_List
> > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fuel tanks
> >
>
> >
> > Most of the fuel tanks I've seen mentioned on this forum have been made
> of aluminum. Has anyone used galvanized steel and sealed it by soldering
> the seams?
> > Would this method be acceptable?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > John Franklin
> > Prairie Aire 4TA0
> > Needville, TX
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Philips" <jack(at)bedfordlandings.com> |
The product is made by Flamemaster and the model number is CS-3204. The best place to buy it (at about 1/3 the price of Vans Aircraft) is SkyGeek. Here is a link to that page of the SkyGeek catalog: http://search.skygeek.com/?vwcatalog=stylespilotshop&keywords=flamemaster+cs+3204&x=0&y=0
Don't order it until you are ready to use it. It has about a 6 month shelf life
(although that can be extended somewhat by keeping it a freezer until ready
to use it). It is critical that it be measured very accurately, by weight. It
is very sticky and gets on everything, and has a fairly short potlife (a couple
of hours, as I recall), but it works extremely well and remains pliable for
at least 25 years, which is how long Vans has been using it. They originally
used a product called Pro-Seal (and many people call the Flamemaster product
Pro-Seal just because it sounds like a good name - who would call a fuel tank
product Flamemaster?), but the original Pro-Seal product would get hard and brittle
after about 10 years, as happened in my old RV-4's tanks.
Hope this helps,
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fairfield, Mike
Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2016 10:41 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Fuel tanks
-->
Good morning Jack,
Your method of riveting the 5052 aluminum and sealing it sounds interesting.
I checked on the Flamemaster web site and entered dyna-seal and came up empty.
By any chance would you have the product number stowed away somewhere? They
have many different products and I wanted to find the proper sealant.
Thanks, Mike.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack Philips
Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2016 10:18 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Fuel tanks
-->
Acceptable but very heavy. The original tanks were made of terneplate, which is steel sheet coated with an alloy of 20% tin and 80% lead. It soldered very well. Soldering galvanized steel, which is coated with zinc is much more difficult and requires special solder alloys and special flux. One method is shown here: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.youtube.com_watch-3Fv-3Du7Imxj2-5FnXw&d=CwIDaQ&c=epcZb5jdh1ysHc2TC_uZEMpi5Xp3bPQPSZatc6SDw3A&r=hRt1T_6xXLTFw-Pi77z3ka1Hyoflt0RLKFhpWJWpHdk&m=BvruWqxPvEdKv231NBgax6irNcRiKLg65IFRcwX8Agc&s=CSlxupiocGrEqE-_kfDsU1JkXn3xMpEeeyVXVXTZZ0k&e=
I riveted my tank together out of 5052 aluminum alloy, then had it TIG welded around
all the edges and over each rivet. During leak testing I found 39 pinhole
leaks and took it back to the welder. After re-welding over those 39 leaks
I only found 9 leaks. Third time was the charm and it has been leak free ever
since.
However, if I were to do it again I would just rivet it together and use the Flamemaster
Dyna-Seal product that I used when building the tanks for my RV-10.
This is what Van's Aircraft uses for all their fuel tanks and it must be pretty
successful since there are literally thousands of airplanes flying using this
method. It is easy (if somewhat messy) to build a good fuel tank with this
method, and the tank doesn't warp during welding like most welded tanks do (mine
included).
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Franklin
Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2016 9:23 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fuel tanks
Most of the fuel tanks I've seen mentioned on this forum have been made of aluminum.
Has anyone used galvanized steel and sealed it by soldering the seams?
Would this method be acceptable?
Thanks,
John Franklin
Prairie Aire 4TA0
Needville, TX
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jack <jack(at)textors.com> |
Mike one other thought on Flamemaster... I cut plenty of blue paper shop towels
in 2 inch squares for cleaning up spots with acetone. Kept it somewhat clean.
Sent from my iPad
Jack Textor
> On Mar 29, 2016, at 9:40 AM, Fairfield, Mike wrote:
>
>
> Good morning Jack,
>
> Your method of riveting the 5052 aluminum and sealing it sounds interesting.
I checked on the Flamemaster web site and entered dyna-seal and came up empty.
By any chance would you have the product number stowed away somewhere?
They have many different products and I wanted to find the proper sealant.
>
> Thanks, Mike.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack Philips
> Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2016 10:18 AM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Fuel tanks
>
> -->
>
> Acceptable but very heavy. The original tanks were made of terneplate, which is steel sheet coated with an alloy of 20% tin and 80% lead. It soldered very well. Soldering galvanized steel, which is coated with zinc is much more difficult and requires special solder alloys and special flux. One method is shown here: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.youtube.com_watch-3Fv-3Du7Imxj2-5FnXw&d=CwIDaQ&c=epcZb5jdh1ysHc2TC_uZEMpi5Xp3bPQPSZatc6SDw3A&r=hRt1T_6xXLTFw-Pi77z3ka1Hyoflt0RLKFhpWJWpHdk&m=BvruWqxPvEdKv231NBgax6irNcRiKLg65IFRcwX8Agc&s=CSlxupiocGrEqE-_kfDsU1JkXn3xMpEeeyVXVXTZZ0k&e=
>
> I riveted my tank together out of 5052 aluminum alloy, then had it TIG welded
around all the edges and over each rivet. During leak testing I found 39 pinhole
leaks and took it back to the welder. After re-welding over those 39 leaks
I only found 9 leaks. Third time was the charm and it has been leak free ever
since.
>
> However, if I were to do it again I would just rivet it together and use the
Flamemaster Dyna-Seal product that I used when building the tanks for my RV-10.
This is what Van's Aircraft uses for all their fuel tanks and it must be pretty
successful since there are literally thousands of airplanes flying using
this method. It is easy (if somewhat messy) to build a good fuel tank with this
method, and the tank doesn't warp during welding like most welded tanks do
(mine included).
>
> Jack Phillips
> NX899JP
> Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Franklin
> Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2016 9:23 AM
> To: Piet_List
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fuel tanks
>
>
> Most of the fuel tanks I've seen mentioned on this forum have been made of aluminum.
Has anyone used galvanized steel and sealed it by soldering the seams?
> Would this method be acceptable?
>
> Thanks,
> John Franklin
> Prairie Aire 4TA0
> Needville, TX
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fairfield, Mike" <MFairfield(at)hewitt.ca> |
Thank you all Gentlemen,
I will be making a larger fuel tank in a larger center section and was deliberating
different materials, terne plate is more rare than a nun's fart around here,
and I didn't really want to go with fibreglass. With the aluminum, I was
just worried about potential leaks around the seams. With this material, I will
sleep with a clear conscience....
Thanks again Gents, Mike.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack
Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2016 2:35 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuel tanks
Mike one other thought on Flamemaster... I cut plenty of blue paper shop towels
in 2 inch squares for cleaning up spots with acetone. Kept it somewhat clean.
Sent from my iPad
Jack Textor
> On Mar 29, 2016, at 9:40 AM, Fairfield, Mike wrote:
>
> -->
>
> Good morning Jack,
>
> Your method of riveting the 5052 aluminum and sealing it sounds interesting.
I checked on the Flamemaster web site and entered dyna-seal and came up empty.
By any chance would you have the product number stowed away somewhere?
They have many different products and I wanted to find the proper sealant.
>
> Thanks, Mike.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack
> Philips
> Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2016 10:18 AM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Fuel tanks
>
> -->
>
> Acceptable but very heavy. The original tanks were made of
> terneplate, which is steel sheet coated with an alloy of 20% tin and
> 80% lead. It soldered very well. Soldering galvanized steel, which
> is coated with zinc is much more difficult and requires special solder
> alloys and special flux. One method is shown here:
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.youtube.com_wa
> tch-3Fv-3Du7Imxj2-5FnXw&d=CwIDaQ&c=epcZb5jdh1ysHc2TC_uZEMpi5Xp3bPQPSZa
> tc6SDw3A&r=hRt1T_6xXLTFw-Pi77z3ka1Hyoflt0RLKFhpWJWpHdk&m=BvruWqxPvEdKv
> 231NBgax6irNcRiKLg65IFRcwX8Agc&s=CSlxupiocGrEqE-_kfDsU1JkXn3xMpEeeyVXV
> XTZZ0k&e
>
> I riveted my tank together out of 5052 aluminum alloy, then had it TIG welded
around all the edges and over each rivet. During leak testing I found 39 pinhole
leaks and took it back to the welder. After re-welding over those 39 leaks
I only found 9 leaks. Third time was the charm and it has been leak free ever
since.
>
> However, if I were to do it again I would just rivet it together and use the
Flamemaster Dyna-Seal product that I used when building the tanks for my RV-10.
This is what Van's Aircraft uses for all their fuel tanks and it must be pretty
successful since there are literally thousands of airplanes flying using
this method. It is easy (if somewhat messy) to build a good fuel tank with this
method, and the tank doesn't warp during welding like most welded tanks do
(mine included).
>
> Jack Phillips
> NX899JP
> Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John
> Franklin
> Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2016 9:23 AM
> To: Piet_List
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fuel tanks
>
> -->
>
> Most of the fuel tanks I've seen mentioned on this forum have been made of aluminum.
Has anyone used galvanized steel and sealed it by soldering the seams?
> Would this method be acceptable?
>
> Thanks,
> John Franklin
> Prairie Aire 4TA0
> Needville, TX
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Riblett 613.5 plans |
| From: | Tony Crawford <tonyp51qa(at)gmail.com> |
Hello Terry,
Could you please fix your attachment for the RIBLETT. Thank You Sir!
Tony
On Mon, Mar 28, 2016 at 7:42 AM, jarheadpilot82
wrote:
> jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com>
>
> Ken,
>
> In this day of internet and email, I can't imagine why anyone would need
> to mail you a copy of the airfoil. Also, it can be found in numerous
> websites as matters of public record.
>
> Here is the copy I made for my ribs. Notice that there is no angle built
> in. By that I mean the spars and verticals are perpendicular to the chord
> line.
>
> This is a full sized copy, and can be taken down to your local Kinko's and
> printed on their big printing machine for a couple of bucks a copy.
>
> It is free for anyone to use, but obviously done so at your own risk, much
> like everything else in experimental aviation.
>
> --------
> Semper Fi,
>
> Terry Hand
> Athens, GA
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=454260#454260
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/riblett_6135_205.jpg
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Riblett 613.5 plans |
| From: | "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
Reading the thread about the Riblett airfoil, I went back to the archives and searched
on 'Riblett' and got almost 700 posts, so it's been discussed quite a
bit. I was looking specifically for how and why we ended up with the 613.5 rather
than the 612 and found that I had made a few posts on the subject myself.
I don't know the answer to why the 613.5 came to be (roughly 13.5% thickness
airfoil, 8" deep, rather than 12% or about 7-1/4" thickness), but whatever the
case, it's been test-flown and the performance was documented by P.F. Beck in
a post to this list and in a writeup in the BPA Newsletter. When P.F. concluded
that there was very little apparent difference in performance between the
Riblett and the Piet airfoil, various comments were made about how it may not
have been a fair test but that's not worth bringing up. I will, however, cut
and paste my response to P.F.'s post:
"I wouldn't say that there is little to no benefit of using the Riblett. Here's
a snip from a post that I made in May of 2008 on the subject:
"The Riblett "612" airfoil is very similar to the NACA 4412 airfoil that has also been discussed here. Both of those airfoils are deeper than the Pietenpol, allowing for lighter spars and ribs, increased volume where a fuel tank can go in the wing, and both of them have less undercamber than the Pietenpol airfoil. With a 60" chord, a 12% airfoil is a bit over 7" deep as compared with the Pietenpol at 4" deep. There is an image of the NACA and Riblett airfoils at http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/airfoils.jpg"
I wanted to point out that Terry mentions the spars and rib verticals being perpendicular
to the chord line, with no angle built in. If you take the Riblett
airfoil outline and lay it over the Pietenpol rib drawing, you'll soon be scratching
your head about how to make the Riblett fit the spar spacing and how the
chord line should be laid out relative to the airplane's longerons. Bill Church
posted an excellent statement of the angle of incidence comparison in a
post in July of 2014. Needless to say, then, when you change to the Riblett airfoil,
there are various adjustments that need to be made. It's not exactly
"swap and go fly".
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=454355#454355
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douwe Blumberg" <douwe(at)douwestudios.com> |
| Subject: | fuel tank material |
My vote goes for a welded aluminum tank. If you can't weld aluminum, lots
of guys have fabricated up the tank and riveted together with a few rivets,
then used a professional welder to tig weld the seams. There WILL be some
leaks, but once it's done right you never have to worry again, as long as
the welds are nice and thick. Small, pretty welds are very. pretty but for
aircraft tanks, larger welds are the way to go. Tanks will sometimes warp
when welding, but in Piet, the tank isn't really visible whether it's in
the wing or fuselage so who cares?
Never used Flamemaster and it sounds "da bomb" so can't comment on that.
Just sayin' don't be put off by having a tank welded up. Remember, these
are things you only do once in the project. then live with for decades
after, so don't sweat them too much, if it takes an extra week or two it's
not a big deal in the long run.
$.02
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Pauls Piet Build |
| From: | "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org> |
Ray,
Please see the attached. It will be a little extra work but very well worth doing.
With the current configuration you are only depending on the small welds
to hold you wings on. Standard aircraft construction methods will have this
strap in the strut ends.
Please put these on before flying the plane.
Respectfully,
--------
Scott Liefeld
Flying N11MS since March 1972
Steel Tube
C-85-12
Wire Wheels
Brodhead in 1996
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=454361#454361
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/slafd_suppl16033008230_677.pdf
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ray Krause <raykrause(at)frontiernet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Pauls Piet Build |
Scott,
Thank you VERY much. I will do this right away and also add a third AN-4 bolt
to the strut attachments. Should the strap be welded to the "U-joint?
You would be welcome anytime to visit me and inspect my build. You would be my
guest, all expenses paid.
I'm TRULEY grateful for your help,
Ray Krause
Sent from my iPad
> On Mar 30, 2016, at 8:30 AM, AircamperN11MS wrote:
>
>
> Ray,
>
> Please see the attached. It will be a little extra work but very well worth
doing. With the current configuration you are only depending on the small welds
to hold you wings on. Standard aircraft construction methods will have this
strap in the strut ends.
>
> Please put these on before flying the plane.
>
> Respectfully,
>
> --------
> Scott Liefeld
> Flying N11MS since March 1972
> Steel Tube
> C-85-12
> Wire Wheels
> Brodhead in 1996
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=454361#454361
>
>
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/slafd_suppl16033008230_677.pdf
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fairfield, Mike" <MFairfield(at)hewitt.ca> |
| Subject: | fuel tank material |
Good afternoon Douwe,
Appreciate your $.02 worth. What gauge aluminum would you
suggest for the tank?
Thanks, Mike.
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-lis
t-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Douwe Blumberg
Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2016 8:47 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: fuel tank material
My vote goes for a welded aluminum tank. If you can't weld aluminum, lots
of guys have fabricated up the tank and riveted together with a few rivets,
then used a professional welder to tig weld the seams. There WILL be some
leaks, but once it's done right you never have to worry again, as long as
the welds are nice and thick. Small, pretty welds are very... pretty but f
or aircraft tanks, larger welds are the way to go. Tanks will sometimes wa
rp when welding, but in Piet, the tank isn't really visible whether it's i
n the wing or fuselage so who cares?
Never used Flamemaster and it sounds "da bomb" so can't comment on that. J
ust sayin' don't be put off by having a tank welded up. Remember, these ar
e things you only do once in the project... then live with for decades afte
r, so don't sweat them too much, if it takes an extra week or two it's not
a big deal in the long run.
$.02
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Pauls Piet Build |
| From: | "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org> |
Ray,
Welding it would be preferred. In fact it should be. I would really like to see
your bird. Are you going to go to Frazuer Lake this year? Maybe we can find
some time around then? Or I can talk the wife into a weekend get away trip.
She would probably welcome that. Maybe one weekend next month?? I'll ask
her. I'm currently thing the weekend of 4-19. What's your calendar look like?
Cheers,
--------
Scott Liefeld
Flying N11MS since March 1972
Steel Tube
C-85-12
Wire Wheels
Brodhead in 1996
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=454369#454369
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | George Abernathy <avionixoz(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pauls Piet Build |
Here is my .02.
You should drill under size and ream=C2- the holes to an exact fit. Memor
y sludge serves up that this
info is in AC-43-13.
The idea being that you get maximum shear when the bolt fits in the hole wi
th no slop.
Drill bits tend to make triangular holes.
G
From: Ray Krause <raykrause(at)frontiernet.net>
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2016 4:40 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pauls Piet Build
>
Scott,
Thank you VERY much.=C2- I will do this right away and also add a third A
N-4 bolt to the strut attachments.=C2- Should the strap be welded to the
"U-joint?
You would be welcome anytime to visit me and inspect my build.=C2- You wo
uld be my guest, all expenses paid.
I'm TRULEY grateful for your help,
Ray Krause
Sent from my iPad
> On Mar 30, 2016, at 8:30 AM, AircamperN11MS wr
ote:
>
ity.org>
>
> Ray,
>
> Please see the attached.=C2- It will be a little extra work but very we
ll worth doing.=C2- With the current configuration you are only depending
on the small welds to hold you wings on.=C2- Standard aircraft construct
ion methods will have this strap in the strut ends.
>
> Please put these on before flying the plane.=C2-
>
> Respectfully,
>
> --------
> Scott Liefeld
> Flying N11MS since March 1972
> Steel Tube
> C-85-12
> Wire Wheels
> Brodhead in 1996
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=454361#454361
>
>
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/slafd_suppl16033008230_677.pdf
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
S -
-
=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charles Burkholder <born2fly(at)abcmailbox.net> |
Hello Pietple
Looking for Frank Metcalfe's contact information. I am going to be
flying into the West Georgia Regional airport on Friday where EAA
chapter 976 is based and saw his Piet as well as a few other nice ones
on their website.
Thanks
Charles
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Riblett 613.5 plans |
| From: | "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
I thought I had posted this last night, but it doesn't seem to have shown up.
I did a quick overlay of the Riblett 612 airfoil over the Piet rib with the spars
vertical and in register with the Piet spar locations, just to see how the
two compare. Draw your own conclusions... this is offered purely as matter for
thought and discussion.
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=454375#454375
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/airfoil_125.png
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ray Krause <raykrause(at)frontiernet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Pauls Piet Build |
Scott,
I made the straps today and will weld them tomorrow. When the are completed, I
will send a photo.
I plan on going to Frazier, but probably in the Waiex or Aeronca. Of course, the
Piet won't be ready!
April 19 appears to be a Tuesday. But just about anytime in April or May would
be good for a visit...I'm retired! I have Drs. Appointments for either me or
my mom on April 14, 18 and 27. Even those could be changed to accommodate you
and your wife. Would you fly up? Plan on staying with us for as long as you like.
We could go see Gary Boothe and his gang in Lincoln.
Let me know,
Ray
Sent from my iPad
> On Mar 30, 2016, at 11:16 AM, AircamperN11MS wrote:
>
>
> Ray,
>
> Welding it would be preferred. In fact it should be. I would really like to
see your bird. Are you going to go to Frazuer Lake this year? Maybe we can
find some time around then? Or I can talk the wife into a weekend get away trip.
She would probably welcome that. Maybe one weekend next month?? I'll ask
her. I'm currently thing the weekend of 4-19. What's your calendar look like?
>
> Cheers,
>
> --------
> Scott Liefeld
> Flying N11MS since March 1972
> Steel Tube
> C-85-12
> Wire Wheels
> Brodhead in 1996
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=454369#454369
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | plans and other builder resources |
Folks=2C I just wanted to remind everyone (especially new builders/dreamers
) that there is another excellent resource for us out there. Doc and Dee M
osher=2C well known to the Piet community and formerly editors of the Brodh
ead Pietenpol Association Newsletter=2C have a "Pietenpol Plans Plus" websi
te that offers all of the Air Camper plans and supplements=2C plus a whole
host of other useful information and historical background on the Air Campe
r and its designers Bernard Pietenpol and Orrin Hoopman=2C at http://www.do
cspietshop.com . You would do well to browse the site in your search for u
seful information.
Oscar Zuniga
Medford=2C OR
Air Camper NX41CC=2C "Scout"
A75 power
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Pauls Piet Build |
| From: | "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org> |
Ray,
I have out of control fingers. April 9th was the weekend I was thinking of. My
wife says that that weekend works good for her. We can fine tune this via email
or texting.
scott.liefeld(at)gmail.com
661-400-1876 Cell
We would be driving and may have our dog with us. We haven't asked the dog yet.....
but she would probably want to go too. We need a weekend away.
--------
Scott Liefeld
Flying N11MS since March 1972
Steel Tube
C-85-12
Wire Wheels
Brodhead in 1996
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=454382#454382
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Barry Davis" <bed(at)mindspring.com> |
Frank is out of town, but call Jon at 770-301-5222 and he can let you in to see
a couple of the Big Piets.
Barry
NX973BP
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charles Burkholder
Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2016 7:54 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Frank Metcalfe
-->
Hello Pietple
Looking for Frank Metcalfe's contact information. I am going to be flying into
the West Georgia Regional airport on Friday where EAA chapter 976 is based and
saw his Piet as well as a few other nice ones on their website.
Thanks
Charles
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: fuel tank material |
| From: | "womenfly2" <Love2Fly.KAP(at)gmail.com> |
Use .040" thick aluminum alloy 5052-H32 with 5356 filler metal and do not use 4043
filler metal on 5XXX serie aluminum. Most bungs will be 6061 aluminum this
filler rod is good for these parts too.
WF2
--------
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=454391#454391
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fairfield, Mike" <MFairfield(at)hewitt.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: fuel tank material |
Thank you very much for the details, much appreciated, Mike.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of womenfly2
Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2016 1:52 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: fuel tank material
-->
Use .040" thick aluminum alloy 5052-H32 with 5356 filler metal and do not use 4043
filler metal on 5XXX serie aluminum. Most bungs will be 6061 aluminum this
filler rod is good for these parts too.
WF2
--------
Read this topic online here:
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__forums.matronics.com_viewtopic.php-3Fp-3D454391-23454391&d=CwICAw&c=epcZb5jdh1ysHc2TC_uZEMpi5Xp3bPQPSZatc6SDw3A&r=hRt1T_6xXLTFw-Pi77z3ka1Hyoflt0RLKFhpWJWpHdk&m=1Qza5cVqm-IUM-QrMdVTUru7im47hh3QtEStANajxRs&s=Cwz6yRQln_0K1_a8NKo2jlGx_yPSs9WN7jRX251uoJ8&e=
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "oldbird" <semihoksay(at)gmail.com> |
I am at the end of the fuselage. Landing gear is also almost done. I also bought
a Conti C90-8F from a junkyard in Turkey. I'm working on it for the time being.
I'll see what comes out of it. Remember I also have a Conti A65-8 less carb,
spark plugs, spider and firing harness. Any suggestions? I am inclined towards
the C90 if everything goes fine.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=454394#454394
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Barry Davis" <bed(at)mindspring.com> |
Use the C-90, you won't be disappointed.
Barry
NX973BP
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of oldbird
Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2016 2:33 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: TC Pietenpol
I am at the end of the fuselage. Landing gear is also almost done. I also
bought a Conti C90-8F from a junkyard in Turkey. I'm working on it for the
time being. I'll see what comes out of it. Remember I also have a Conti
A65-8 less carb, spark plugs, spider and firing harness. Any suggestions? I
am inclined towards the C90 if everything goes fine.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=454394#454394
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: TC Pietenpol |
| From: | "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org> |
The C-90 is the very best of all the cont engines. To find a dash 8 is like finding
Hens teeth. You have great hunting skills.
--------
Scott Liefeld
Flying N11MS since March 1972
Steel Tube
C-85-12
Wire Wheels
Brodhead in 1996
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=454399#454399
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Riblett 613.5 plans |
| From: | "tonyp51qa" <tonyp51qa(at)gmail.com> |
Hello Terry,
I still cannot open the RIBLET attachment. It says URL NOT FOUND! Can you assist???
Thanks,
Tony
--------
Tony Crawford
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=454403#454403
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | indoctrinated Grandson |
OT
My 4 year old grandson was at Chick-fil-a with his mother. She pointed out
the cow on the plane and said "what kind of plane is that?"
He replied "I already told you! it is a Pietenpol!"
--
Blue Skies,
Steve D
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Taylorcraft Struts For Sale |
| From: | Jack <jack(at)textors.com> |
My friend and former GN1 builder has replaced his Taylorcraft wing struts. He
is selling the originals for $60 a piece plus shipping. You can contact him at
602-743-5768 or
DJ(at)veghdesign.com.
Sent from my iPad
Jack Textor
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | infow <infow(at)shaw.ca> |
e built my 701 tanks using 5052-032 aluminum and rivets. Used the
Flamemaster Dyna-Seal sealant from Van's worked great... messy but great! All
of the mounting flanges came from Van's. The ISS Fuel level senders come
from Van's. The Fuel Level gauges came from ACS(ISS's). Van's gauges no good
here... calibrated for their tanks!
Ron
View of left tank....
Left tank covered...
Baffles in tank....
Tank venting...
Tank vent line....
ISS Fuel level arm sensor bent and installed...
ACS fuel cap in place... best method!!!!
|
|
| Acceptable but very heavy. The original tanks were made of
| terneplate, which is steel sheet coated with an alloy of 20% tin
| and 80% lead. It soldered very well. Soldering galvanized steel,
| which is coated with zinc is much more difficult and requires
| special solder alloys and special flux. One method is shown here:
| http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7Imxj2_nXw
|
| I riveted my tank together out of 5052 aluminum alloy, then had it
| TIG welded around all the edges and over each rivet. During leak
| testing I found 39 pinhole leaks and took it back to the welder.
| After re-welding over those 39 leaks I only found 9 leaks. Third
| time was the charm and it has been leak free ever since.
|
| However, if I were to do it again I would just rivet it together
| and use the Flamemaster Dyna-Seal product that I used when building
| the tanks for my RV-10. This is what Van's Aircraft uses for all
| their fuel tanks and it must be pretty successful since there are
| literally thousands of airplanes flying using this method. It is
| easy (if somewhat messy) to build a good fuel tank with this
| method, and the tank doesn't warp during welding like most welded
| tanks do (mine included).
|
| Jack Phillips
| NX899JP
| Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
|
| -----Original Message-----
| From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-
| pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Franklin
| Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2016 9:23 AM
| To: Piet_List
| Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fuel tanks
|
|
|
| Most of the fuel tanks I've seen mentioned on this forum have been
| made of aluminum. Has anyone used galvanized steel and sealed it
| by soldering the seams?
| Would this method be acceptable?
|
| Thanks,
| John Franklin
| Prairie Aire 4TA0
| Needville, TX
|
|
| http://www.matronics.com/contribution
| - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum -
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
| - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
| generous support!
| > http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | infow <infow(at)shaw.ca> |
I built my 701 tanks using 5052-032 aluminum and rivets. Used the
Flamemaster Dyna-Seal sealant from Van's worked great... messy but great! All
of the mounting flanges came from Van's. The ISS Fuel level senders come
from Van's. The Fuel Level gauges came from ACS(ISS's). Van's gauges no good
here... calibrated for their tanks!
Ron
View of left tank....
Left tank covered...
Baffles in tank....
Tank venting...
Tank vent line....
ISS Fuel level arm sensor bent and installed...
ACS fuel cap in place... best method!!!!
|
|
| Acceptable but very heavy. The original tanks were made of
| terneplate, which is steel sheet coated with an alloy of 20% tin
| and 80% lead. It soldered very well. Soldering galvanized steel,
| which is coated with zinc is much more difficult and requires
| special solder alloys and special flux. One method is shown here:
| http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7Imxj2_nXw
|
| I riveted my tank together out of 5052 aluminum alloy, then had it
| TIG welded around all the edges and over each rivet. During leak
| testing I found 39 pinhole leaks and took it back to the welder.
| After re-welding over those 39 leaks I only found 9 leaks. Third
| time was the charm and it has been leak free ever since.
|
| However, if I were to do it again I would just rivet it together
| and use the Flamemaster Dyna-Seal product that I used when building
| the tanks for my RV-10. This is what Van's Aircraft uses for all
| their fuel tanks and it must be pretty successful since there are
| literally thousands of airplanes flying using this method. It is
| easy (if somewhat messy) to build a good fuel tank with this
| method, and the tank doesn't warp during welding like most welded
| tanks do (mine included).
|
| Jack Phillips
| NX899JP
| Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
|
| -----Original Message-----
| From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-
| pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Franklin
| Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2016 9:23 AM
| To: Piet_List
| Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fuel tanks
|
|
|
| Most of the fuel tanks I've seen mentioned on this forum have been
| made of aluminum. Has anyone used galvanized steel and sealed it
| by soldering the seams?
| Would this method be acceptable?
|
| Thanks,
| John Franklin
| Prairie Aire 4TA0
| Needville, TX
|
|
| http://www.matronics.com/contribution
| - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum -
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
| - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
| generous support!
| > http://www.matronics.com/contribution
I built my 701 tanks using 5052-032 aluminum and
rivets. Used the
Flamemaster
Dyna-Seal sealant from Van's worked great... messy but great! All of the
mounting flanges came from Van's. The ISS Fuel level senders come
from Van's. The Fuel Level gauges came from ACS(ISS's). Van's
gauges no good here... calibrated for their tanks!
Ron
View of left
tank....
Left tank
covered...
Baffles in
tank....
Tank
venting...
Tank vent
line....
ISS Fuel level arm sensor
bent and installed...
ACS fuel cap in place...
best method!!!!
| -->
Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Jack Philips"
|
<jack(at)bedfordlandings.com>
|
| Acceptable but
very heavy. The original tanks were made of
| terneplate,
which is steel sheet coated with an alloy of 20% tin
| and 80% lead.
It soldered very well. Soldering galvanized
steel,
| which is coated
with zinc is much more difficult and requires
| special solder
alloys and special flux. One method is shown here:
|
| I riveted my
tank together out of 5052 aluminum alloy, then had it
| TIG welded
around all the edges and over each rivet. During leak
| testing I found
39 pinhole leaks and took it back to the welder.
| After
re-welding over those 39 leaks I only found 9 leaks.
Third
| time was the
charm and it has been leak free ever since.
|
| However, if I
were to do it again I would just rivet it together
| and use the
Flamemaster Dyna-Seal product that I used when building
| the tanks for
my RV-10. This is what Van's Aircraft uses for all
| their fuel
tanks and it must be pretty successful since there are
| literally
thousands of airplanes flying using this method. It is
| easy (if
somewhat messy) to build a good fuel tank with this
| method, and the
tank doesn't warp during welding like most welded
| tanks do (mine
included).
|
| Jack
Phillips
|
NX899JP
| Smith Mountain
Lake, Virginia
|
| -----Original
Message-----
| From:
owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-
|
pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John
Franklin
| Sent: Tuesday,
March 29, 2016 9:23 AM
| To: Piet_List
<pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com>
| Subject:
Pietenpol-List: Fuel tanks
|
| -->
Pietenpol-List message posted by: John Franklin
|
<jbfjr(at)peoplepc.com>
|
| Most of the
fuel tanks I've seen mentioned on this forum have been
| made of
aluminum. Has anyone used galvanized steel and sealed
it
| by soldering
the seams?
| Would this
method be acceptable?
|
|
Thanks,
| John
Franklin
| Prairie Aire
4TA0
| Needville,
TX
|
|
|
| (And Get Some
the
| Contribution
| Terrific Free
| List
| generous
|
|
- The Pietenpol-List Email Forum -
| many List
| Search &
| much much more:
-->
|
|
- MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
| --> http://forums.matronics.com
|
|
you for your
| generous
support!
--
|
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Glen Schweizer <glenschweizer(at)yahoo.com> |
Great pics !! Thank you
Sent from my iPhone
> On Apr 1, 2016, at 2:39 PM, infow wrote:
>
> I built my 701 tanks using 5052-032 aluminum and rivets. Used the
> Flamemaster Dyna-Seal sealant from Van's worked great... messy but great! A
ll of the mounting flanges came from Van's. The ISS Fuel level senders com
e from Van's. The Fuel Level gauges came from ACS(ISS's). Van's gauges no g
ood here... calibrated for their tanks!
>
>
> Ron
>
>
> View of left tank....
>
>
>
> Left tank covered...
>
>
>
>
> Baffles in tank....
>
>
>
>
>
> Tank venting...
>
>
>
>
> Tank vent line....
>
>
>
>
> ISS Fuel level arm sensor bent and installed...
>
>
>
> ACS fuel cap in place... best method!!!!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> |
> |
> | Acceptable but very heavy. The original tanks were made of
> | terneplate, which is steel sheet coated with an alloy of 20% tin
> | and 80% lead. It soldered very well. Soldering galvanized steel,
> | which is coated with zinc is much more difficult and requires
> | special solder alloys and special flux. One method is shown here:
> | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7Imxj2_nXw
> |
> | I riveted my tank together out of 5052 aluminum alloy, then had it
> | TIG welded around all the edges and over each rivet. During leak
> | testing I found 39 pinhole leaks and took it back to the welder.
> | After re-welding over those 39 leaks I only found 9 leaks. Third
> | time was the charm and it has been leak free ever since.
> |
> | However, if I were to do it again I would just rivet it together
> | and use the Flamemaster Dyna-Seal product that I used when building
> | the tanks for my RV-10. This is what Van's Aircraft uses for all
> | their fuel tanks and it must be pretty successful since there are
> | literally thousands of airplanes flying using this method. It is
> | easy (if somewhat messy) to build a good fuel tank with this
> | method, and the tank doesn't warp during welding like most welded
> | tanks do (mine included).
> |
> | Jack Phillips
> | NX899JP
> | Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
> |
> | -----Original Message-----
> | From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-
> | pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Franklin
> | Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2016 9:23 AM
> | To: Piet_List
> | Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fuel tanks
> |
> |
> |
> | Most of the fuel tanks I've seen mentioned on this forum have been
> | made of aluminum. Has anyone used galvanized steel and sealed it
> | by soldering the seams?
> | Would this method be acceptable?
> |
> | Thanks,
> | John Franklin
> | Prairie Aire 4TA0
> | Needville, TX
> |
> |
> |
> | (And Get Some the
> | Contribution
> | Terrific Free
> | List
> | your
> | generous
> |
> | - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum -
> | many List
> | Search &
> | much much more: -->
> |
> | - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
> | --> http://forums.matronics.com
> |
> | you for your
> | generous support!
> --
> | > http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> |
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Riblett 613.5 plans |
| From: | "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com> |
Tony,
I have created a link for you to go to download the jpeg file. If I upload it directly
here it seems to make my screen go five foot wide, since the file is that
wide.
Here ya go. Use at your own risk. No warranty implied. may suddenly accelerate
to dangerous speeds. Contains a liquid core, which, if exposed due to rupture,
should not be touched, inhaled, or looked at. Do not use on concrete.
Discontinue use if any of the following occurs: itching, vertigo, dizziness, tingling
in extremities, loss of balance or coordination, slurred speech, temporary
blindness, profuse sweating, or heart palpitations. If jpeg begins to smoke,
get away immediately. Seek shelter and cover head.
Riblett 613.5 rib jig drawing -
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B4iLvEYzmBCsTnliU0xIUC1ueFU/view?usp=sharing
--------
Semper Fi,
Terry Hand
Athens, GA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=454456#454456
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bruce Kirk <brucekirk(at)ymail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 8 Msgs - 03/31/16 |
hello everyone, I am interested in the pietenpol aircamper, and I was wonde
ring if there is a project near Sacramento California that I could come see
.Thanks for any replies. brucekirk(at)ymail.com
From: Pietenpol-List Digest Server <pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com>
To: Pietenpol-List Digest List
Sent: Friday, April 1, 2016 12:02 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List Digest: 8 Msgs - 03/31/16
*
========================
=C2- Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
========================
Today's complete Pietenpol-List Digest can also be found in either of the
two Web Links listed below.=C2- The .html file includes the Digest format
ted
in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
and Message Navigation.=C2- The .txt file includes the plain ASCII versio
n
of the Pietenpol-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
such as Notepad or with a web browser.
HTML Version:
=C2- =C2- http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&
View=html&Chapter 16-03-31&Archive=Pietenpol
Text Version:
=C2- =C2- http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&
View=txt&Chapter 16-03-31&Archive=Pietenpol
========================
=======================
=C2- EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
========================
=======================
=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- ----------------------------------------
------------------
=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2
- =C2- =C2- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive
=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2
- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- ---
=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- Total
Messages Posted Thu 03/31/16: 8
=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- ----------------------------------------
------------------
Today's Message Index:
----------------------
=C2- =C2- 1. 05:47 AM - Re: Pauls Piet Build=C2- (AircamperN11MS)
=C2- =C2- 2. 06:30 AM - Re: Frank Metcalfe=C2- (Barry Davis)
=C2- =C2- 3. 10:54 AM - Re: fuel tank material=C2- (womenfly2)
=C2- =C2- 4. 11:06 AM - Re: Re: fuel tank material=C2- (Fairfield, Mi
ke)
=C2- =C2- 5. 11:34 AM - TC Pietenpol=C2- (oldbird)
=C2- =C2- 6. 12:01 PM - Re: TC Pietenpol=C2- (Barry Davis)
=C2- =C2- 7. 01:34 PM - Re: TC Pietenpol=C2- (AircamperN11MS)
=C2- =C2- 8. 03:36 PM - Re: Riblett 613.5 plans=C2- (tonyp51qa)
________________________________=C2- Message 1=C2- ____________________
_________________
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pauls Piet Build
From: "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org>
Ray,
I have out of control fingers.=C2- April 9th was the weekend I was thinki
ng of.=C2- My
wife says that that weekend works good for her.=C2- We can fine tune this
via email
or texting.=C2-
scott.liefeld(at)gmail.com
661-400-1876=C2- Cell
We would be driving and may have our dog with us.=C2- We haven't asked th
e dog yet.....
but she would probably want to go too.=C2- We need a weekend away.
--------
Scott Liefeld
Flying N11MS since March 1972
Steel Tube
C-85-12
Wire Wheels
Brodhead in 1996
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=454382#454382
________________________________=C2- Message 2=C2- ____________________
_________________
From: "Barry Davis" <bed(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Frank Metcalfe
Frank is out of town, but call Jon at 770-301-5222 and he can let you in to
see
a couple of the Big Piets.
Barry
NX973BP
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-lis
t-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charles Burkholder
Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2016 7:54 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Frank Metcalfe
-->
Hello Pietple
Looking for Frank Metcalfe's contact information. I am going to be flying i
nto
the West Georgia Regional airport on Friday where EAA chapter 976 is based
and
saw his Piet as well as a few other nice ones on their website.
Thanks
Charles
________________________________=C2- Message 3=C2- ____________________
_________________
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: fuel tank material
From: "womenfly2" <Love2Fly.KAP(at)gmail.com>
Use .040" thick aluminum alloy 5052-H32 with 5356 filler metal and do not u
se 4043
filler metal on 5XXX serie aluminum. Most bungs will be 6061 aluminum this
filler rod is good for these parts too.
WF2
--------
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=454391#454391
________________________________=C2- Message 4=C2- ____________________
_________________
From: "Fairfield, Mike" <MFairfield(at)hewitt.ca>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: fuel tank material
Thank you very much for the details, much appreciated, Mike.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-lis
t-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of womenfly2
Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2016 1:52 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: fuel tank material
-->
Use .040" thick aluminum alloy 5052-H32 with 5356 filler metal and do not u
se 4043
filler metal on 5XXX serie aluminum. Most bungs will be 6061 aluminum this
filler rod is good for these parts too.
WF2
--------
Read this topic online here:
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__forums.matronics.com_
viewtopic.php-3Fp-3D454391-23454391&d=CwICAw&c=epcZb5jdh1ysHc2TC_uZEMpi
5Xp3bPQPSZatc6SDw3A&r=hRt1T_6xXLTFw-Pi77z3ka1Hyoflt0RLKFhpWJWpHdk&m=1Qz
a5cVqm-IUM-QrMdVTUru7im47hh3QtEStANajxRs&s=Cwz6yRQln_0K1_a8NKo2jlGx_yPSs9
WN7jRX251uoJ8&e
________________________________=C2- Message 5=C2- ____________________
_________________
Subject: Pietenpol-List: TC Pietenpol
From: "oldbird" <semihoksay(at)gmail.com>
I am at the end of the fuselage. Landing gear is also almost done. I also b
ought
a Conti C90-8F from a junkyard in Turkey. I'm working on it for the time be
ing.
I'll see what comes out of it. Remember I also have a Conti A65-8 less carb
,
spark plugs, spider and firing harness. Any suggestions? I am inclined towa
rds
the C90 if everything goes fine.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=454394#454394
________________________________=C2- Message 6=C2- ____________________
_________________
From: "Barry Davis" <bed(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: TC Pietenpol
Use the C-90, you won't be disappointed.
Barry
NX973BP
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of oldbird
Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2016 2:33 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: TC Pietenpol
I am at the end of the fuselage. Landing gear is also almost done. I also
bought a Conti C90-8F from a junkyard in Turkey. I'm working on it for the
time being. I'll see what comes out of it. Remember I also have a Conti
A65-8 less carb, spark plugs, spider and firing harness. Any suggestions? I
am inclined towards the C90 if everything goes fine.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=454394#454394
________________________________=C2- Message 7=C2- ____________________
_________________
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: TC Pietenpol
From: "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org>
The C-90 is the very best of all the cont engines.=C2- To find a dash 8 i
s like finding
Hens teeth.=C2- You have great hunting skills.
--------
Scott Liefeld
Flying N11MS since March 1972
Steel Tube
C-85-12
Wire Wheels
Brodhead in 1996
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=454399#454399
________________________________=C2- Message 8=C2- ____________________
_________________
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Riblett 613.5 plans
From: "tonyp51qa" <tonyp51qa(at)gmail.com>
Hello Terry,
I still cannot open the RIBLET attachment. It says URL NOT FOUND!=C2- Can
you assist???
Thanks,
Tony
--------
Tony Crawford
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=454403#454403
=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
S -
-
=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Textor" <jack(at)textors.com> |
Ron nice looking work. In the last picture I see sealer on top of the
pop rivets. Are they covered completely on the inside (backside)?
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of infow
Sent: Friday, April 01, 2016 4:40 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Fuel tanks
I built my 701 tanks using 5052-032 aluminum and rivets. Used the
Flamemaster Dyna-Seal sealant from Van's worked great... messy but
great! All of the mounting flanges came from Van's. The ISS Fuel level
senders come from Van's. The Fuel Level gauges came from ACS(ISS's).
Van's gauges no good here... calibrated for their tanks!
Ron
View of left tank....
Left tank covered...
Baffles in tank....
Tank venting...
Tank vent line....
ISS Fuel level arm sensor bent and installed...
ACS fuel cap in place... best method!!!!
| >
|
| Acceptable but very heavy. The original tanks were made of
| terneplate, which is steel sheet coated with an alloy of 20% tin
| and 80% lead. It soldered very well. Soldering galvanized steel,
| which is coated with zinc is much more difficult and requires
| special solder alloys and special flux. One method is shown here:
| http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7Imxj2_nXw
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7Imxj2_nXw>
|
| I riveted my tank together out of 5052 aluminum alloy, then had it
| TIG welded around all the edges and over each rivet. During leak
| testing I found 39 pinhole leaks and took it back to the welder.
| After re-welding over those 39 leaks I only found 9 leaks. Third
| time was the charm and it has been leak free ever since.
|
| However, if I were to do it again I would just rivet it together
| and use the Flamemaster Dyna-Seal product that I used when building
| the tanks for my RV-10. This is what Van's Aircraft uses for all
| their fuel tanks and it must be pretty successful since there are
| literally thousands of airplanes flying using this method. It is
| easy (if somewhat messy) to build a good fuel tank with this
| method, and the tank doesn't warp during welding like most welded
| tanks do (mine included).
|
| Jack Phillips
| NX899JP
| Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
|
| -----Original Message-----
| From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-
| pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
] On Behalf Of John
Franklin
| Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2016 9:23 AM
| To: Piet_List >
| Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fuel tanks
|
| >
|
| Most of the fuel tanks I've seen mentioned on this forum have been
| made of aluminum. Has anyone used galvanized steel and sealed it
| by soldering the seams?
| Would this method be acceptable?
|
| Thanks,
| John Franklin
| Prairie Aire 4TA0
| Needville, TX
|
|
|
| (And Get Some the
| Contribution
| Terrific Free
| List
| your <http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
<http://www.matronics.com/contribution> | generous
<http://www.matronics.com/contribution> |
<http://www.matronics.com/contribution> | - The Pietenpol-List
Email Forum -
<http://www.matronics.com/contribution> | many List
<http://www.matronics.com/contribution> | Search &
<http://www.matronics.com/contribution> | much much more: -->
<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List>
<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List> |
<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List> | -
MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List> | -->
http://forums.matronics.com
|
| you for your
| generous support!
--
| > <http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
|
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 8 Msgs - 03/31/16 |
| From: | "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com> |
Gary Boothe is in Lincoln, CA. You might try contacting him.
--------
Semper Fi,
Terry Hand
Athens, GA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=454494#454494
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | infow <infow(at)shaw.ca> |
You apply the sealer to the to the tank surface and also rivets tips before
inserting into the hole! Then once the rivet is set... apply a dab to the
outer rivet to ensure a good seal. A good light cleaning with mek after can
be used to clean most of the rivets once sealer has set! Usually you will not
see any sealer when done
Ron
| Ron nice looking work. In the last picture I see sealer on top of
| the pop rivets. Are they covered completely on the inside
| (backside)?
|
|
| From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-
| pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of infow
| Sent: Friday, April 01, 2016 4:40 PM
| To: Jack Philips
| Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Fuel tanks
|
|
| I built my 701 tanks using 5052-032 aluminum and rivets. Used the
|
|
| Flamemaster Dyna-Seal sealant from Van's worked great... messy but
| great! All of the mounting flanges came from Van's. The ISS Fuel
| level senders come from Van's. The Fuel Level gauges came from
| ACS(ISS's). Van's gauges no good here... calibrated for their
| tanks!
|
|
| Ron
|
|
| View of left tank....
|
|
| Left tank covered...
|
|
| Baffles in tank....
|
|
| Tank venting...
|
|
| Tank vent line....
|
|
| ISS Fuel level arm sensor bent and installed...
|
|
| ACS fuel cap in place... best method!!!!
|
|
||
|
||
|
|
|| Acceptable but very heavy. The original tanks were made of
||
|
|| terneplate, which is steel sheet coated with an alloy of 20% tin
||
|
|| and 80% lead. It soldered very well. Soldering galvanized steel,
||
|
|| which is coated with zinc is much more difficult and requires
||
|
|| special solder alloys and special flux. One method is shown here:
||
|
|| http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7Imxj2_nXw
|
|
|| I riveted my tank together out of 5052 aluminum alloy, then had it
||
|
|| TIG welded around all the edges and over each rivet. During leak
||
|
|| testing I found 39 pinhole leaks and took it back to the welder.
||
|
|| After re-welding over those 39 leaks I only found 9 leaks. Third
||
|
|| time was the charm and it has been leak free ever since.
|
|
|| However, if I were to do it again I would just rivet it together
||
|
|| and use the Flamemaster Dyna-Seal product that I used when
|| building
||
|
|| the tanks for my RV-10. This is what Van's Aircraft uses for all
||
|
|| their fuel tanks and it must be pretty successful since there are
||
|
|| literally thousands of airplanes flying using this method. It is
||
|
|| easy (if somewhat messy) to build a good fuel tank with this
||
|
|| method, and the tank doesn't warp during welding like most welded
||
|
|| tanks do (mine included).
|
|
|| Jack Phillips
||
|
|| NX899JP
||
|
|| Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
|
|
|| -----Original Message-----
||
|
|| From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-
||
|
|| pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Franklin
||
|
|| Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2016 9:23 AM
||
|
|| To: Piet_List
||
|
|| Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fuel tanks
|
|
||
|
||
|
|
|| Most of the fuel tanks I've seen mentioned on this forum have been
||
|
|| made of aluminum. Has anyone used galvanized steel and sealed it
||
|
|| by soldering the seams?
||
|
|| Would this method be acceptable?
|
|
|| Thanks,
||
|
|| John Franklin
||
|
|| Prairie Aire 4TA0
||
|
|| Needville, TX
|
|
|| (And Get Some the
||
|
|| Contribution
||
|| Terrific Free
||
|| List
||
|| your
||
|
|| generous
||
||
|| - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum -
||
|
|| many List
||
|| Search &
||
|| much much more: -->
||
||
|| - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
||
|
|| --> http://forums.matronics.com
||
||
|| you for your
||
|
|| generous support!
||
|
| --
|
|
||| http://www.matronics.com/contribution
You apply
the sealer to the to the tank surface and also rivets tips before inserting
into the hole! Then once the rivet is set... apply a dab to the outer rivet
to ensure a good seal. A good light cleaning with mek after
can be used to clean most of the rivets once sealer has set! Usually
you will not see any sealer when done
Ron
| Ron nice looking work.
In the last picture I see sealer on top of
| the pop rivets. Are
they covered completely on the inside
| (backside)?
|
|
| From:
owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-
|
pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of infow
| Sent: Friday, April 01, 2016
4:40 PM
| To: Jack Philips
<pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com>
| Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List:
Fuel tanks
|
|
| I built my 701 tanks using
5052-032 aluminum and rivets. Used the
|
|
| Flamemaster Dyna-Seal
sealant from Van's worked great... messy but
| great! All of the mounting
flanges came from Van's. The ISS Fuel
| level senders come from
Van's. The Fuel Level gauges came from
| ACS(ISS's). Van's
gauges no good here... calibrated for their
| tanks!
|
|
| Ron
|
|
| View of left
tank....
|
|
| Left tank
covered...
|
|
| Baffles in
tank....
|
|
| Tank
venting...
|
|
| Tank vent
line....
|
|
| ISS Fuel level arm sensor
bent and installed...
|
|
| ACS fuel cap in place...
best method!!!!
|
|
|| --> Pietenpol-List
message posted by: "Jack Philips"
||
|
||
<jack(at)bedfordlandings.com>
|
|
|| Acceptable but very
heavy. The original tanks were made of
||
|
|| terneplate, which is
steel sheet coated with an alloy of 20% tin
||
|
|| and 80% lead. It
soldered very well. Soldering galvanized steel,
||
|
|| which is coated with zinc
is much more difficult and requires
||
|
|| special solder alloys and
special flux. One method is shown here:
||
|
|
|
|| I riveted my tank
together out of 5052 aluminum alloy, then had it
||
|
|| TIG welded around all the
edges and over each rivet. During leak
||
|
|| testing I found 39
pinhole leaks and took it back to the welder.
||
|
|| After re-welding over
those 39 leaks I only found 9 leaks. Third
||
|
|| time was the charm and it
has been leak free ever since.
|
|
|| However, if I were to do
it again I would just rivet it together
||
|
|| and use the Flamemaster
Dyna-Seal product that I used when
|| building
||
|
|| the tanks for my RV-10.
This is what Van's Aircraft uses for all
||
|
|| their fuel tanks and it
must be pretty successful since there are
||
|
|| literally thousands of
airplanes flying using this method. It is
||
|
|| easy (if somewhat messy)
to build a good fuel tank with this
||
|
|| method, and the tank
doesn't warp during welding like most welded
||
|
|| tanks do (mine
included).
|
|
|| Jack
Phillips
||
|
|| NX899JP
||
|
|| Smith Mountain Lake,
Virginia
|
|
|| -----Original
Message-----
||
|
|| From:
owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-
||
|
||
pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John
Franklin
||
|
|| Sent: Tuesday, March 29,
2016 9:23 AM
||
|
|| To: Piet_List
<pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com>
||
|
|| Subject: Pietenpol-List:
Fuel tanks
|
|
|| --> Pietenpol-List
message posted by: John Franklin
||
|
||
<jbfjr(at)peoplepc.com>
|
|
|| Most of the fuel tanks
I've seen mentioned on this forum have been
||
|
|| made of aluminum.
Has anyone used galvanized steel and sealed it
||
|
|| by soldering the
seams?
||
|
|| Would this method be
acceptable?
|
|
|| Thanks,
||
|
|| John
Franklin
||
|
|| Prairie Aire
4TA0
||
|
|| Needville,
TX
|
|
|| (And Get Some
the
||
|
||
Contribution
||
|| Terrific
Free
||
|| List
||
|| your
||
|
|| generous
||
||
|| -
The Pietenpol-List Email Forum -
||
|
|| many List
||
|| Search
&
||
|| much much more:
-->
||
||
||
- MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
||
|
|| --> http://forums.matronics.com
||
||
|| you for
your
||
|
|| generous
support!
||
|
|
--
|
|
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | infow <infow(at)shaw.ca> |
Sorry for the large photos... should be smaller!
Ron
| Ron nice looking work. In the last picture I see sealer on top of
| the pop rivets. Are they covered completely on the inside
| (backside)?
|
|
| From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-
| pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of infow
| Sent: Friday, April 01, 2016 4:40 PM
| To: Jack Philips
| Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Fuel tanks
|
|
| I built my 701 tanks using 5052-032 aluminum and rivets. Used the
|
|
| Flamemaster Dyna-Seal sealant from Van's worked great... messy but
| great! All of the mounting flanges came from Van's. The ISS Fuel
| level senders come from Van's. The Fuel Level gauges came from
| ACS(ISS's). Van's gauges no good here... calibrated for their
| tanks!
|
|
| Ron
|
|
| View of left tank....
|
|
| Left tank covered...
|
|
| Baffles in tank....
|
|
| Tank venting...
|
|
| Tank vent line....
|
|
| ISS Fuel level arm sensor bent and installed...
|
|
| ACS fuel cap in place... best method!!!!
|
|
||
|
||
|
|
|| Acceptable but very heavy. The original tanks were made of
||
|
|| terneplate, which is steel sheet coated with an alloy of 20% tin
||
|
|| and 80% lead. It soldered very well. Soldering galvanized steel,
||
|
|| which is coated with zinc is much more difficult and requires
||
|
|| special solder alloys and special flux. One method is shown here:
||
|
|| http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7Imxj2_nXw
|
|
|| I riveted my tank together out of 5052 aluminum alloy, then had it
||
|
|| TIG welded around all the edges and over each rivet. During leak
||
|
|| testing I found 39 pinhole leaks and took it back to the welder.
||
|
|| After re-welding over those 39 leaks I only found 9 leaks. Third
||
|
|| time was the charm and it has been leak free ever since.
|
|
|| However, if I were to do it again I would just rivet it together
||
|
|| and use the Flamemaster Dyna-Seal product that I used when
|| building
||
|
|| the tanks for my RV-10. This is what Van's Aircraft uses for all
||
|
|| their fuel tanks and it must be pretty successful since there are
||
|
|| literally thousands of airplanes flying using this method. It is
||
|
|| easy (if somewhat messy) to build a good fuel tank with this
||
|
|| method, and the tank doesn't warp during welding like most welded
||
|
|| tanks do (mine included).
|
|
|| Jack Phillips
||
|
|| NX899JP
||
|
|| Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
|
|
|| -----Original Message-----
||
|
|| From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-
||
|
|| pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Franklin
||
|
|| Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2016 9:23 AM
||
|
|| To: Piet_List
||
|
|| Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fuel tanks
|
|
||
|
||
|
|
|| Most of the fuel tanks I've seen mentioned on this forum have been
||
|
|| made of aluminum. Has anyone used galvanized steel and sealed it
||
|
|| by soldering the seams?
||
|
|| Would this method be acceptable?
|
|
|| Thanks,
||
|
|| John Franklin
||
|
|| Prairie Aire 4TA0
||
|
|| Needville, TX
|
|
|| (And Get Some the
||
|
|| Contribution
||
|| Terrific Free
||
|| List
||
|| your
||
|
|| generous
||
||
|| - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum -
||
|
|| many List
||
|| Search &
||
|| much much more: -->
||
||
|| - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
||
|
|| --> http://forums.matronics.com
||
||
|| you for your
||
|
|| generous support!
||
|
| --
|
|
||| http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Sorry for
the large photos... should be smaller!
Ron
| Ron nice looking work.
In the last picture I see sealer on top of
| the pop rivets. Are
they covered completely on the inside
| (backside)?
|
|
| From:
owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-
|
pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of infow
| Sent: Friday, April 01, 2016
4:40 PM
| To: Jack Philips
<pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com>
| Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List:
Fuel tanks
|
|
| I built my 701 tanks using
5052-032 aluminum and rivets. Used the
|
|
| Flamemaster Dyna-Seal
sealant from Van's worked great... messy but
| great! All of the mounting
flanges came from Van's. The ISS Fuel
| level senders come from
Van's. The Fuel Level gauges came from
| ACS(ISS's). Van's
gauges no good here... calibrated for their
| tanks!
|
|
| Ron
|
|
| View of left
tank....
|
|
| Left tank
covered...
|
|
| Baffles in
tank....
|
|
| Tank
venting...
|
|
| Tank vent
line....
|
|
| ISS Fuel level arm sensor
bent and installed...
|
|
| ACS fuel cap in place...
best method!!!!
|
|
|| --> Pietenpol-List
message posted by: "Jack Philips"
||
|
||
<jack(at)bedfordlandings.com>
|
|
|| Acceptable but very
heavy. The original tanks were made of
||
|
|| terneplate, which is
steel sheet coated with an alloy of 20% tin
||
|
|| and 80% lead. It
soldered very well. Soldering galvanized steel,
||
|
|| which is coated with zinc
is much more difficult and requires
||
|
|| special solder alloys and
special flux. One method is shown here:
||
|
|
|
|| I riveted my tank
together out of 5052 aluminum alloy, then had it
||
|
|| TIG welded around all the
edges and over each rivet. During leak
||
|
|| testing I found 39
pinhole leaks and took it back to the welder.
||
|
|| After re-welding over
those 39 leaks I only found 9 leaks. Third
||
|
|| time was the charm and it
has been leak free ever since.
|
|
|| However, if I were to do
it again I would just rivet it together
||
|
|| and use the Flamemaster
Dyna-Seal product that I used when
|| building
||
|
|| the tanks for my RV-10.
This is what Van's Aircraft uses for all
||
|
|| their fuel tanks and it
must be pretty successful since there are
||
|
|| literally thousands of
airplanes flying using this method. It is
||
|
|| easy (if somewhat messy)
to build a good fuel tank with this
||
|
|| method, and the tank
doesn't warp during welding like most welded
||
|
|| tanks do (mine
included).
|
|
|| Jack
Phillips
||
|
|| NX899JP
||
|
|| Smith Mountain Lake,
Virginia
|
|
|| -----Original
Message-----
||
|
|| From:
owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-
||
|
||
pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John
Franklin
||
|
|| Sent: Tuesday, March 29,
2016 9:23 AM
||
|
|| To: Piet_List
<pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com>
||
|
|| Subject: Pietenpol-List:
Fuel tanks
|
|
|| --> Pietenpol-List
message posted by: John Franklin
||
|
||
<jbfjr(at)peoplepc.com>
|
|
|| Most of the fuel tanks
I've seen mentioned on this forum have been
||
|
|| made of aluminum.
Has anyone used galvanized steel and sealed it
||
|
|| by soldering the
seams?
||
|
|| Would this method be
acceptable?
|
|
|| Thanks,
||
|
|| John
Franklin
||
|
|| Prairie Aire
4TA0
||
|
|| Needville,
TX
|
|
|| (And Get Some
the
||
|
||
Contribution
||
|| Terrific
Free
||
|| List
||
|| your
||
|
|| generous
||
||
|| -
The Pietenpol-List Email Forum -
||
|
|| many List
||
|| Search
&
||
|| much much more:
-->
||
||
||
- MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
||
|
|| --> http://forums.matronics.com
||
||
|| you for
your
||
|
|| generous
support!
||
|
|
--
|
|
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | infow <infow(at)shaw.ca> |
Should find some here ...
http://search.skygeek.com/?vwcatalog=stylespilotshop&keywords=flamemaster+cs+3
204&x=0&y=0
Ron
|
|
| Good morning Jack,
|
| Your method of riveting the 5052 aluminum and sealing it sounds
| interesting. I checked on the Flamemaster web site and entered
| dyna-seal and came up empty. By any chance would you have the
| product number stowed away somewhere? They have many different
| products and I wanted to find the proper sealant.
|
| Thanks, Mike.
|
| -----Original Message-----
| From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-
| pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack Philips
| Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2016 10:18 AM
| To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
| Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Fuel tanks
|
|
|
| Acceptable but very heavy. The original tanks were made of
| terneplate, which is steel sheet coated with an alloy of 20% tin
| and 80% lead. It soldered very well. Soldering galvanized steel,
| which is coated with zinc is much more difficult and requires
| special solder alloys and special flux. One method is shown here:
| https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-
| 3A__www.youtube.com_watch-3Fv-3Du7Imxj2-
| 5FnXw&d=CwIDaQ&c=epcZb5jdh1ysHc2TC_uZEMpi5Xp3bPQPSZatc6SDw3A&r=hRt1T_6
| xXLTFw-
| Pi77z3ka1Hyoflt0RLKFhpWJWpHdk&m=BvruWqxPvEdKv231NBgax6irNcRiKLg65IFRcw
| X8Agc&s=CSlxupiocGrEqE-_kfDsU1JkXn3xMpEeeyVXVXTZZ0k&e
|
| I riveted my tank together out of 5052 aluminum alloy, then had it
| TIG welded around all the edges and over each rivet. During leak
| testing I found 39 pinhole leaks and took it back to the welder.
| After re-welding over those 39 leaks I only found 9 leaks. Third
| time was the charm and it has been leak free ever since.
|
| However, if I were to do it again I would just rivet it together
| and use the Flamemaster Dyna-Seal product that I used when building
| the tanks for my RV-10. This is what Van's Aircraft uses for all
| their fuel tanks and it must be pretty successful since there are
| literally thousands of airplanes flying using this method. It is
| easy (if somewhat messy) to build a good fuel tank with this
| method, and the tank doesn't warp during welding like most welded
| tanks do (mine included).
|
| Jack Phillips
| NX899JP
| Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
|
| -----Original Message-----
| From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-
| pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Franklin
| Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2016 9:23 AM
| To: Piet_List
| Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fuel tanks
|
|
|
| Most of the fuel tanks I've seen mentioned on this forum have been
| made of aluminum. Has anyone used galvanized steel and sealed it
| by soldering the seams?
| Would this method be acceptable?
|
| Thanks,
| John Franklin
| Prairie Aire 4TA0
| Needville, TX
|
|
| - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum -
| - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
| generous support!
| > http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Ron
| --> Pietenpol-List
message posted by: "Fairfield, Mike"
|
<MFairfield(at)hewitt.ca>
|
| Good morning
Jack,
|
| Your method of riveting the
5052 aluminum and sealing it sounds
| interesting. I checked
on the Flamemaster web site and entered
| dyna-seal and came up empty.
By any chance would you have the
| product number stowed away
somewhere? They have many different
| products and I wanted to
find the proper sealant.
|
| Thanks, Mike.
|
| -----Original
Message-----
| From:
owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-
|
pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack
Philips
| Sent: Tuesday, March 29,
2016 10:18 AM
| To:
pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
| Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List:
Fuel tanks
|
| --> Pietenpol-List
message posted by: "Jack Philips" -->
|
<jack(at)bedfordlandings.com>
|
| Acceptable but very heavy.
The original tanks were made of
| terneplate, which is steel
sheet coated with an alloy of 20% tin
| and 80% lead. It
soldered very well. Soldering galvanized steel,
| which is coated with zinc is
much more difficult and requires
| special solder alloys and
special flux. One method is shown here:
|
3A__www.youtube.com_watch-3Fv-3Du7Imxj2-
|
5FnXw&d=CwIDaQ&c=epcZb5jdh1ysHc2TC_uZEMpi5Xp3bPQPSZatc6SDw3A&r=
hRt1T_6
| xXLTFw-
|
Pi77z3ka1Hyoflt0RLKFhpWJWpHdk&m=BvruWqxPvEdKv231NBgax6irNcRiKLg65IFRcw<
/SPAN>
|
X8Agc&s=CSlxupiocGrEqE-_kfDsU1JkXn3xMpEeeyVXVXTZZ0k&e=
|
| I riveted my tank together
out of 5052 aluminum alloy, then had it
| TIG welded around all the
edges and over each rivet. During leak
| testing I found 39 pinhole
leaks and took it back to the welder.
| After re-welding over those
39 leaks I only found 9 leaks. Third
| time was the charm and it
has been leak free ever since.
|
| However, if I were to do it
again I would just rivet it together
| and use the Flamemaster
Dyna-Seal product that I used when building
| the tanks for my RV-10.
This is what Van's Aircraft uses for all
| their fuel tanks and it must
be pretty successful since there are
| literally thousands of
airplanes flying using this method. It is
| easy (if somewhat messy) to
build a good fuel tank with this
| method, and the tank doesn't
warp during welding like most welded
| tanks do (mine
included).
|
| Jack Phillips
| NX899JP
| Smith Mountain Lake,
Virginia
|
| -----Original
Message-----
| From:
owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-
|
pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John
Franklin
| Sent: Tuesday, March 29,
2016 9:23 AM
| To: Piet_List
<pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com>
| Subject: Pietenpol-List:
Fuel tanks
|
| --> Pietenpol-List
message posted by: John Franklin
|
<jbfjr(at)peoplepc.com>
|
| Most of the fuel tanks I've
seen mentioned on this forum have been
| made of aluminum. Has
anyone used galvanized steel and sealed it
| by soldering the
seams?
| Would this method be
acceptable?
|
| Thanks,
| John Franklin
| Prairie Aire
4TA0
| Needville, TX
|
|
|
| (And Get Some AWESOME FREE
| Contribution link below to
| Terrific Free Incentive
| List Contribution Web Site:
| http://www.matronics.com/contr
| generous support!
|
|
- The Pietenpol-List Email Forum -
| many List utilities such as
| Search & Download, 7-Day
| much much more:
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matroni
|
|
- MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
| --> http://forums.matronics.com
|
|
your
| generous
support!
|
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 8 Msgs - 03/31/16 |
| From: | "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
Bruce;
There are several Piet builders/pilots in the SAC area. Gary Boothe is one (Lincoln),
Chris Tracy is another, the Groah father-son, and there are others. In
eight weeks is the West Coast Piet fly-in, down at Frazier Lake Airpark near
Hollister/Gilroy. Only a couple of hours drive from you. The first Saturday
in June.
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=454514#454514
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | goffelectric(at)comcast.net |
Five ribs stitched, 4.5 hours, and I pretty sure I'm gonna lose a finger. M
y 14 year old is off the couch though!
=C2-
Thanks,
Keith Goff
----- Original Message -----
From: "Goff Electric" <goffelectric(at)comcast.net>
Sent: Sunday, April 3, 2016 8:53:07 PM
Subject: Rib stitch
[image/jpeg:IMG_5608.JPG]
Sent from my iPhone
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ray Krause <raykrause(at)frontiernet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 8 Msgs - 03/31/16 |
Bruce,
My Sky Scout is in its final stages. You are MORE than welcome to come see it,
anytime. I'm in Colusa, CA, 530-458-7097.
Hope to see you,
Ray Krause
Sent from my iPad
> On Apr 3, 2016, at 3:19 PM, taildrags wrote:
>
>
> Bruce;
>
> There are several Piet builders/pilots in the SAC area. Gary Boothe is one (Lincoln),
Chris Tracy is another, the Groah father-son, and there are others.
In eight weeks is the West Coast Piet fly-in, down at Frazier Lake Airpark near
Hollister/Gilroy. Only a couple of hours drive from you. The first Saturday
in June.
>
> --------
> Oscar Zuniga
> Medford, OR
> Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
> A75 power
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=454514#454514
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fwd: Rib stitch |
| From: | "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com> |
The good news is that it's easy to fly a Piet with nine fingers! Bravo!
Oh, and ya, it gets a lot easier.... About the time you have it mastered, you'll
be done....
Tools
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=454519#454519
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fwd: Rib stitch |
| From: | "Charles N. Campbell" <charlescampbell1924(at)gmail.com> |
Keith, I just checked with my daughter who helped me some with the rib
stitching. She said that it took probably 45 mins to an hour for each of
my ribs. Good t see you're making progress -- seems my project has slowed
to a crawl. I've been working on the landing gear for quite a while now.
finally finished it. Now I have started on the instrument panel and
gasoline tank. Maybe we can fly to each other's fields one of these days.
Keep at it!!! Chuck
On Sun, Apr 3, 2016 at 9:00 PM, wrote:
> Five ribs stitched, 4.5 hours, and I pretty sure I'm gonna lose a finger.
> My 14 year old is off the couch though!
>
> Thanks,
> Keith Goff
>
> ------------------------------
> *From: *"Goff Electric" <goffelectric(at)comcast.net>
> *To: *goffelectric(at)comcast.net
> *Sent: *Sunday, April 3, 2016 8:53:07 PM
> *Subject: *Rib stitch
>
>
> [image/jpeg:IMG_5608.JPG]
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jack <fastnaught(at)windstream.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fwd: Rib stitch |
Keith,
Looks great, keep up the good work.
Jack
Sent from my iPad
> On Apr 3, 2016, at 9:00 PM, goffelectric(at)comcast.net wrote:
>
> Five ribs stitched, 4.5 hours, and I pretty sure I'm gonna lose a finger. M
y 14 year old is off the couch though!
>
> Thanks,
> Keith Goff
>
> From: "Goff Electric" <goffelectric(at)comcast.net>
> To: goffelectric(at)comcast.net
> Sent: Sunday, April 3, 2016 8:53:07 PM
> Subject: Rib stitch
>
>
>
>
>
> [image/jpeg:IMG_5608.JPG]
>
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Barry Davis" <bed(at)mindspring.com> |
The sign of a rib-stitcher. No explanation required.
Barry
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
goffelectric(at)comcast.net
Sent: Sunday, April 03, 2016 9:00 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fwd: Rib stitch
Five ribs stitched, 4.5 hours, and I pretty sure I'm gonna lose a
finger. My 14 year old is off the couch though!
Thanks,
Keith Goff
_____
From: "Goff Electric" <goffelectric(at)comcast.net>
Sent: Sunday, April 3, 2016 8:53:07 PM
Subject: Rib stitch
[image/jpeg:IMG_5608.JPG]
Sent from my iPhone
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | woodflier <woodflier(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fwd: Rib stitch |
Amen, brother.
Matt Paxton
-----Original Message-----
From: Barry Davis <bed(at)mindspring.com>
Sent: Mon, Apr 4, 2016 5:29 pm
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Fwd: Rib stitch
The sign of a rib-stitcher. No explanation required.
Barry
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of goffelectric(at)comcast.net
Sent: Sunday, April 03, 2016 9:00 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fwd: Rib stitch
Five ribs stitched, 4.5 hours, and I pretty sure I'm gonna lose a finger. My 14
year old is off the couch though!
Thanks,
Keith Goff
From: "Goff Electric" <goffelectric(at)comcast.net>
Sent: Sunday, April 3, 2016 8:53:07 PM
Subject: Rib stitch
[image/jpeg:IMG_5608.JPG]
Sent from my iPhone
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: welding 4130 hinges |
| From: | "danoliver" <danoliver909(at)gmail.com> |
So the videos were of no use, but practice practice practice paid off - that and
a little help from my friends at chapter 174. Using the right size rod really
makes a difference. 1/16" seems to work well. Most important it turns out is
"normalizing". The weld must be allowed to cool and then be gently heated to
a dull red.
thanks all
--------
Dan O
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=454590#454590
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | off topic 1920's project book |
| From: | "wheelharp" <wheelharp(at)gmail.com> |
This is WAY off topic, and an extreme long shot at best, but I figure if any group
has an understanding of 1920's diy, it is the Pietenpol gang. I got a book
from my dad when I was a kid, it was his in the late 20's or early 30's, but
it looks to be printed in the 20's.
It never had a cover since I got it in 1977, but this book is the foundation of
my interest in building and flight. There were several patterns for model aircraft
I built many copies of. Even though the book was written 4 decades prior
to my being born, I developed a strong bond and appreciation for the ingenuity
of my fathers generation. I had never heard of Bernard Pietenpol while looking
at this book in the 1970's, but now can appreciate that he and this book represent
the "stuff" that created the greatest generation our nation has ever seen
(in my opinion)
Does anyone recognize any of the attached photos? I have seen similar books published
under "The Boy Mechanic" series, but none appear to be my dad's childhood
book. It would mean thecworld to me to finally see this book in it's entirety.
--------
Jon Jones
Ironton, MO
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=454598#454598
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/1459916047907_174.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/1459915931700_179.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: off topic 1920's project book |
| From: | "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com> |
This is not exactly what you are looking for, but maybe it will help -
http://www.ebay.com/itm/How-to-Build-Model-Planes-Aeroplanes-of-the-Past-Flying-Machines-on-CD-/260869272880
--------
Semper Fi,
Terry Hand
Athens, GA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=454611#454611
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: off topic 1920's project book |
| From: | "wheelharp" <wheelharp(at)gmail.com> |
Thanks Terry. Those were pretty interesting links, and looked to be from same time
period. I guess there were probably hundreds of those type books published,
and many in small batches. I guess I may never find out exactly what I have.
--------
Jon Jones
Ironton, MO
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=454613#454613
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: welding 4130 hinges |
| From: | "DaveG601XL" <david.m.gallagher(at)ge.com> |
Dan,
I am glad Russ M. was able to help you out. Have you met with John M. yet? Both
are good welders. Bring some of your most recent test pieces to the next chapter
meeting and we will give them a look over. Russ and I would like to come
to your shop sometime and check out your progress over the summer.
Good luck,
--------
David Gallagher
Zodiac 601 XL-B: flying, 280+ hours now
Next project under construction: Finish my father's Aircamper
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=454684#454684
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph" <ralphhsd(at)itctel.com> |
Early on in my Piet build I bought a large number of used turnbuckles at
Oshkosh. A couple years ago I took one of the end forks with me to
Oshkosh to be sure and get the correct size pins for the fork end. Now
that I am assembling the tail pieces I find I have misplaced the fork
end to one of the turnbuckles. I located a supple of used turnbuckles
locally but can=99t find one of the same thread pitch. I found
one of the same diameter but only about 4 threads will fit into the
barrel. Under a microscope I count 30 threads per inch on the type fork
I need to replace. The used one I found has 32 threads per inch as does
the forks available from Aircraft Spruce. Is it possible the used
turnbuckles I got years ago at Oshkosh are a military spec which is
different than the thread spec currently used on civilian aircraft? I
will be able to replace the entire turnbuckle unit but I am curious
about the 2 threads per inch difference in the forks. Anybody have any
explanation?
Ralph in SD
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jack <jack(at)textors.com> |
Ralph I did the same thing. I've heard some of the older sets threads varie
d. It was important to keep them together as matched sets...
Sent from my iPad
Jack Textor
> On Apr 7, 2016, at 2:53 PM, Ralph wrote:
>
> Early on in my Piet build I bought a large number of used turnbuckles at O
shkosh. A couple years ago I took one of the end forks with me to Oshkosh t
o be sure and get the correct size pins for the fork end. Now that I am ass
embling the tail pieces I find I have misplaced the fork end to one of the t
urnbuckles. I located a supple of used turnbuckles locally but can=99
t find one of the same thread pitch. I found one of the same diameter but o
nly about 4 threads will fit into the barrel. Under a microscope I count 30
threads per inch on the type fork I need to replace. The used one I found h
as 32 threads per inch as does the forks available from Aircraft Spruce. Is
it possible the used turnbuckles I got years ago at Oshkosh are a military s
pec which is different than the thread spec currently used on civilian aircr
aft? I will be able to replace the entire turnbuckle unit but I am curious a
bout the 2 threads per inch difference in the forks. Anybody have any expla
nation?
>
> Ralph in SD
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | motorcycle master cylinder |
| From: | "wheelharp" <wheelharp(at)gmail.com> |
I haven't had a chance to do a lot of research on this yet, but so far I haven't
found anything yet.
Anyway, I was looking at the master cylinder for my son's crf 450 Honda dirt bike,
and boy it sure looks like something a person could make toe brakes out of
by mounting to the diagonals, similar to how many have done, just in this case
the master cylinder would be mounted stationary instead of having a pivot mount
on the end.
Anyone ever tried this?
--------
Jon Jones
Ironton, MO
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=454706#454706
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/20160407_150625_108.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: off topic 1920's project book |
| From: | "Ryan Mueller" <rmueller23(at)gmail.com> |
Hi Jon,
It appears you may have some iteration of "Every Boy's Hobby Annual". This site
has a number of articles scanned in from various yearly publications of the Annual:
http://www.easybuiltmodels.com/nostalgia.htm
This article from the 1928 issue in particular matches--at least in basic content--the
pictures you posted:
http://www.easybuiltmodels.com/spSimple%20Model%20Aeroplanes.pdf
The layout does not match, however. My guess would be that this article was published
in more than one issue of the Annual--maybe not every year, but reused
multiple times at least. In my searching I am seeing issues from 1927 - 1936;
unfortunately I'm not finding specific information to indicate which year your
copy may be from.
I don't really have any more information about this publication beyond what is
provided on the website above--this is my first encounter with it. I presume this
was a UK publication; when searching for issues on Abebooks, an online bookseller,
41 out of 55 copies for sale are from UK vendors.
Hope that helps,
-Ryan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=454711#454711
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Semih Oksay <semihoksay(at)gmail.com> |
Your turnbuckle may be old German. 32 tpi is 0.8 mm pitch, which is the
thread pitch for metric 5 screw. I also have a couple of those turnbuckles
from an old Fokker biplane. I also have one larger, metric 6 with 1.0 mm
pitch. They don't mix with AN hardware.
Hope this answers your question.
Semih=8B
On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 11:23 PM, Jack wrote:
> Ralph I did the same thing. I've heard some of the older sets threads
> varied. It was important to keep them together as matched sets...
>
> Sent from my iPad
> Jack Textor
>
> On Apr 7, 2016, at 2:53 PM, Ralph wrote:
>
> Early on in my Piet build I bought a large number of used turnbuckles at
> Oshkosh. A couple years ago I took one of the end forks with me to Oshko
sh
> to be sure and get the correct size pins for the fork end. Now that I am
> assembling the tail pieces I find I have misplaced the fork end to one of
> the turnbuckles. I located a supple of used turnbuckles locally but can
=99t
> find one of the same thread pitch. I found one of the same diameter but
> only about 4 threads will fit into the barrel. Under a microscope I coun
t
> 30 threads per inch on the type fork I need to replace. The used one I
> found has 32 threads per inch as does the forks available from Aircraft
> Spruce. Is it possible the used turnbuckles I got years ago at Oshkosh a
re
> a military spec which is different than the thread spec currently used on
> civilian aircraft? I will be able to replace the entire turnbuckle unit
> but I am curious about the 2 threads per inch difference in the forks.
> Anybody have any explanation?
>
> Ralph in SD
>
>
--
Semih Oksay
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: welding 4130 hinges |
| From: | "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca> |
Dan,
Technically speaking, post weld normalizing is not necessary when welding 4130
for thicknesses of 1/8" or less. However, the need to follow appropriate welding
procedures, using the correct filler rods (in the appropriate sizes) etc is
very important. And, as it has already been mentioned, slow cooling in very
still air, at room temperature is critical.
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=454723#454723
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: motorcycle master cylinder |
| From: | "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org> |
Jon,
Mt motorcycles have the same master cylinder. I have often wondered the same thing.
I don't have brakes on my plane, that said you would really need to be
careful about which brake calipers you use. The master cyl does not have much
volume transfer when you apply the brakes. You could easily end up with a caliper
that would require more fluid to operate that the master cylinder could
supply with a single stroke. Perhaps you could use the caliper from the motorcycle
as well. Then I wouldn't see any potential problems. In fact I suspect
it would work very well.
Just something to consider,
--------
Scott Liefeld
Flying N11MS since March 1972
Steel Tube
C-85-12
Wire Wheels
Brodhead in 1996
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=454724#454724
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: motorcycle master cylinder |
| From: | "tkreiner" <tkreiner(at)gmail.com> |
Scott,
If you'll examine a fully bled disc brake setup, I think you'll find that the clearance
between pad and disc is around .005 in. So, in order to operate properly,
the brake master only needs a few thousandths of movement itself.
In fact, if the ratio of piston areas is 8 to one, and we assume .005 piston travel
at the caliper, the master cylinder piston only needs to move .040 in.
The amount of fluid being moved is very small; in a kart or cycle brake setup such
as the one shown the volume of fluid beng move is probable around .5 cc or
less.
Hope this helps...
--------
Tom Kreiner
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=454739#454739
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Boyer <boyerjrb(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: motorcycle master cylinder |
HI Scott,
Dick Navratil's brown Piet had Harley Davidson motorcycle brakes; mater cylinder
and calipers.
Cheers,
Jim B.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: motorcycle master cylinder |
| From: | "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org> |
You guys a spot on. I only mention the whole ratio thing so that all volumes are
considered. That master cyl is very small, I know because I have a few. I
just didn't want someone thinking that they might be able to operate a dual piston
caliper with it. You need to do the math first.
If done properly, I don't see any reason it wouldn't work.
Yes I understand how it all works. I have well over 40 years either working on
or designing tractors and fire equipment.
Thanks for the input. I was just trying to answer his direct questions.
Cheers all,
Jim,
I have never seen Dick's plane in person and did not know what brakes he had used.
--------
Scott Liefeld
Flying N11MS since March 1972
Steel Tube
C-85-12
Wire Wheels
Brodhead in 1996
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=454741#454741
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ray Krause <raykrause(at)frontiernet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Starting my build, but need to know which fuselage |
to build!
John,
I would like to get the most recent BPA newsletter. I guess my subscription ran
out. Please send the info. I will send a check right away. No need to mail it
to me, email is gone.
Thanks,
Ray Krause
843 Jay Street
Colusa, CA 95932
Sent from my iPad
> On Feb 29, 2016, at 5:12 PM, John Hofmann wrote:
>
> The promised w&b articles.
>
> Best,
> -john-
>
>
>> On Feb 26, 2016, at 7:52 AM, John Hofmann wrote:
>>
>>
>> I will post it to the list later today when I get to my hotel.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On Feb 26, 2016, at 5:17 AM, johnnysdrop wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Is the Brodhead / WW W&B calculator available online?
>>> English Johnny
>>> STILL building wings
>>>
>>> --------
>>> The only way is UP
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>
>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=453205#453205
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: motorcycle master cylinder |
| From: | "wheelharp" <wheelharp(at)gmail.com> |
Thanks for the replies everyone. I think I may try using them when the time comes.
--------
Jon Jones
Ironton, MO
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=454956#454956
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: off topic 1920's project book |
| From: | "wheelharp" <wheelharp(at)gmail.com> |
Thanks Ryan...I can't believe you found this! I never thought I'd find out what
this book was. Now I can narrow down my search and possibly find exactly which
printing I have. Thanks again!
--------
Jon Jones
Ironton, MO
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=454957#454957
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: motorcycle master cylinder |
| From: | "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org> |
Jon,
I hope you have positive results. I am very curious how well they work. Something
I have thought about every time I work on my KTM.
Cheers,
--------
Scott Liefeld
Flying N11MS since March 1972
Steel Tube
C-85-12
Wire Wheels
Brodhead in 1996
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455033#455033
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: motorcycle master cylinder |
| From: | "charles mcfarland" <charles.w.mcfarland(at)gmail.com> |
Hi,
I bought Dick's airplane and would be glad to send you pictures of his brake setup
if it would help. He used Harley Davidson brakes and brake lines (Hydraulic)
and the master cylinder from the front brake handle by modifying the handle
so it would attach to the stick. Very clever, however no differential braking
was available.
Charlie
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455050#455050
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | TC Pietenpol progress |
| From: | "oldbird" <semihoksay(at)gmail.com> |
It's been a long while I didn't post anything. Following pics show the last stage
of the fuselage, finally on its feet.
In the meanwhile, I found a C90-8F from a junkyard and started to clean and disassemble
it. I am down to crankcase and eccentric. Looks promising so far. I'll
keep posting as work goes on.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455106#455106
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_3296_medium_870.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_3262_medium_562.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Joachim Seitz <joachimkarlseitz(at)gmail.com> |
Hi everyone! I have followed the boards off and on for a while and looked at different
designs, but in the end, I keep coming back to the Pietenpol. Cost and
ease of construction are definitely factors, but mostly I think I am just in
love with what it represents; that bygone era of grass roots aviation and a sense
of adventure.
I am planning on an A65-8, no electrical, wood gear with spoked wheels, minimum
instruments with an altimeter, airspeed, and compass in the front pit (I want
to use it to instruct as well), and may end up doing wood struts and cabanes
as on C-GZHT.
The only problem I may run into is that I am 6'4" and about 225 pounds. So the
plan is to hopefully try on some Pietenpols at Brodhead and maybe even find someone
nice enough to take me up (if I can fit :/). If anyone has any comments
or advice I am all ears. If anyone has had any experience modifying the fuselage
to make a tall person friendly version, please let me know.
Thanks In advance,
Joe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com> |
Joe, at 225 and all ears, won't you have drag issues in an open cockpit?
Welcome to the piets list. Definitely look at the longer fuse and check the
archives.
Blue skies,
Steve D
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Joachim Seitz <joachimkarlseitz(at)gmail.com> |
Well hell Steve, what on a Piet doesn't have drag, I'll just fit in even better.
Anyway, I'll keep digging through the archives.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com> |
Look at the idea of leaning the seat back.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com> |
Also. Longer wing cabanes for ease of entry and Either a cutout or a flop
on the wing.
You can put the rudder pedals further forward. But the rudder bar has to be
under the front seat.
One large framed builder has decided on making his piet air camper a
single seat and using the available area for his size.
Keep asking the list someone will speak up with good ideas.
Blue skies, Steve D
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Joachim Seitz <joachimkarlseitz(at)gmail.com> |
Thanks Steve,
I already planned on the cut out in the wing with a handhold, also a step in the
fuselage side, and raising the wing. I just need to figure out how high to raise
it and what I need to do with the fuse to make it work.
Specifically I was looking at two options:
1) To make the rear instrument panel a tip-up that is attached with a piano hinge
and latches, or
2) To move the front seat and the firewall forward since I need to do so anyway
because of the lighter engine.
Ultimately I can make it work somehow, the CG will be the tricky bit however. Luckily
Bernie blessed us with a wing we can adjust to and throw....
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com> |
Joachem, go to www.Westcoastpiet.com lots of pictures and discussion.
Also, there is a Facebook page.
If you can go to brodhead this year you can look at lots of pietenpols in
person
On Apr 18, 2016 8:30 PM, "Joachim Seitz" wrote:
> joachimkarlseitz(at)gmail.com>
>
> Thanks Steve,
>
> I already planned on the cut out in the wing with a handhold, also a step
> in the fuselage side, and raising the wing. I just need to figure out how
> high to raise it and what I need to do with the fuse to make it work.
>
> Specifically I was looking at two options:
> 1) To make the rear instrument panel a tip-up that is attached with a
> piano hinge and latches, or
> 2) To move the front seat and the firewall forward since I need to do so
> anyway because of the lighter engine.
>
> Ultimately I can make it work somehow, the CG will be the tricky bit
> however. Luckily Bernie blessed us with a wing we can adjust to and
> throw....
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Pietenpol list and Matt Dralle |
Friends=3B
The Matronics forum seems to be inoperative and I fear that it has to do wi
th Matt's health problems the end of last year. Has anyone heard from him
or know how he is doing? I can't seem to access the forum=2C which leads m
e to believe that the servers need maintenance but Matt may not be in any s
hape to tend to them. It may also mean that the list may be on shaky groun
d.
If there is anyone in the Livermore=2C CA area who might know Matt or know
of someone who does=2C perhaps we can help with the server maintenance duti
es until he's better=2C or perhaps migrate the list somewhere else if it lo
oks like Matt may not be able to continue?
Thanks=2C all=2C and I am still wishing and hoping to make the West Coast P
iet Fly-In event. I can't believe it's only about six weeks away.
Oscar Zuniga
Medford=2C OR
Air Camper NX41CC=2C "Scout"
A75 power
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol list and Matt Dralle |
There is currently a disk problem on the Matronics web server. I am working to
resolve the issue as quickly as possible.
Matt Dralle
Matronics
At 09:16 PM 4/18/2016 Monday, you wrote:
>Friends;
>
>The Matronics forum seems to be inoperative and I fear that it has to do with
Matt's health problems the end of last year. Has anyone heard from him or know
how he is doing? I can't seem to access the forum, which leads me to believe
that the servers need maintenance but Matt may not be in any shape to tend to
them. It may also mean that the list may be on shaky ground.
>
>If there is anyone in the Livermore, CA area who might know Matt or know of someone
who does, perhaps we can help with the server maintenance duties until he's
better, or perhaps migrate the list somewhere else if it looks like Matt may
not be able to continue?
>
>Thanks, all, and I am still wishing and hoping to make the West Coast Piet Fly-In
event. I can't believe it's only about six weeks away.
>
>Oscar Zuniga
>Medford, OR
>Air Camper NX41CC, "Scout"
>A75 power
>
>
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | 581 Jeannie Way | Livermore | CA | 94550
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com> |
Joachim, where are you? There is a West coast piet gathering soon.
On Apr 18, 2016 8:51 PM, "Steven Dortch" wrote:
> Joachem, go to www.Westcoastpiet.com lots of pictures and discussion.
>
> Also, there is a Facebook page.
>
> If you can go to brodhead this year you can look at lots of pietenpols in
> person
> On Apr 18, 2016 8:30 PM, "Joachim Seitz"
> wrote:
>
>> joachimkarlseitz(at)gmail.com>
>>
>> Thanks Steve,
>>
>> I already planned on the cut out in the wing with a handhold, also a step
>> in the fuselage side, and raising the wing. I just need to figure out how
>> high to raise it and what I need to do with the fuse to make it work.
>>
>> Specifically I was looking at two options:
>> 1) To make the rear instrument panel a tip-up that is attached with a
>> piano hinge and latches, or
>> 2) To move the front seat and the firewall forward since I need to do so
>> anyway because of the lighter engine.
>>
>> Ultimately I can make it work somehow, the CG will be the tricky bit
>> however. Luckily Bernie blessed us with a wing we can adjust to and
>> throw....
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
Joe wrote-
> I am planning on an A65-8=2C no electrical=2C wood gear with spoked wheel
s=2C minimum
> instruments with an altimeter=2C airspeed=2C and compass in the front pit
(I want
> to use it to instruct as well)
Joe=2C it would help if you would let us know where you are located=2C sinc
e you may have some very good resources nearby but you won't know and we wo
n't know unless we know where you are.
You didn't say whether you meant you would try instructing from the front '
pit and therefore wanted minimal instrumentation up there for yourself=2C o
r whether you meant you would be instructing from the rear 'pit and only wa
nted minimal instrumentation up front so the student would learn to fly the
airplane and not the instruments. I got my checkride and first flights in
my Air Camper by flying it from the front 'pit=2C minimal distractions (th
ere are NO flight instruments in the front cockpit of 41CC at all)=2C and d
id just fine. Recognize a couple of things about attempting to instruct f
rom the front cockpit=2C and I'll use my airplane as the example. I am NOT
a flight instructor but I've frazzled a lot of them in my day =3Bo)
There are three controls in the rear cockpit of my airplane (okay=2C maybe
four) which I consider to be essential to the safety of flight and control
of the aircraft=2C and which are NOT replicated in the front cockpit of 41C
C=2C or many other Air Campers for that matter. They are the fuel shutoff
valve=2C the carburetor heat control=2C the ignition switch=2C and possibly
the brakes. Think about what that means when you are in the front and a s
tudent has those three (or four) controls and you do not. When I fly my ai
rplane=2C I want to have those controls available to me or I want to have a
certified pilot or skilled operator in the rear seat and I sure as heck wa
nt to have intercom. If you want to instruct or give checkrides=2C think a
bout at the very least duplicating the fuel shutoff and carb heat controls
in both cockpits. At the absolute=2C barest minimum- the carb heat control
=2C if you have a small Continental with a Stromberg carb on it. Stick=2C
throttle=2C and rudders in both cockpits are "givens"=3B instruments are op
tional.
> The only problem I may run into is that I am 6'4" and about 225 pounds. S
o the
> plan is to hopefully try on some Pietenpols at Brodhead and maybe even fi
nd someone
> nice enough to take me up (if I can fit :/). If anyone has any comments
> or advice I am all ears.
The best advice I can give is to try some on. Get away from the crowds whe
re you don't feel self-conscious and can make the honest attempt to get in
and out of both cockpits. I've had several good sized people in the front
cockpit of my Air Camper=2C one of them close to your size=2C so it comes d
own to determination and agility. The older and less agile=2C the greater
the degree of difficulty but I took one guy up who had one or two frozen jo
ints and really had mobility problems but still managed to get in=2C go for
a ride=2C and get back out. The good news is that the weight of the perso
n in the front cockpit has almost no effect on CG and rarely any impact on
gross weight=2C but it depends on the aircraft and that's an entirely separ
ate discussion.
By the way=2C pay no attention to Steven Dortch and his email comments. He
throws peanuts from the peanut gallery=2C cracks jokes=2C helps people dis
assemble and load their aircraft into moving vans when they need help=2C ha
s a great family and takes them to the airport to hang out=2C and has even
ridden in my Air Camper once. I thought it was fun and apparently he did t
oo. A good guy=2C but don't get your airplane or vehicle near him or he'll
take out his spray gun and paint everything red. I saw him do that to a p
erfectly good Chevy Suburban once.
Welcome to the list!
Oscar Zuniga
Medford=2C OR
Air Camper NX41CC
A75 power
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com> |
Oscar! I resemble that!
On Apr 18, 2016 11:51 PM, "Oscar Zuniga" wrote:
> Joe wrote-
>
> > I am planning on an A65-8, no electrical, wood gear with spoked wheels,
> minimum
> > instruments with an altimeter, airspeed, and compass in the front pit (I
> want
> > to use it to instruct as well)
>
> Joe, it would help if you would let us know where you are located, since
> you may have some very good resources nearby but you won't know and we
> won't know unless we know where you are.
>
> You didn't say whether you meant you would try instructing from the front
> 'pit and therefore wanted minimal instrumentation up there for yourself, or
> whether you meant you would be instructing from the rear 'pit and only
> wanted minimal instrumentation up front so the student would learn to fly
> the airplane and not the instruments. I got my checkride and
> first flights in my Air Camper by flying it from the front 'pit, minimal
> distractions (there are NO flight instruments in the front cockpit of 41CC
> at all), and did just fine. Recognize a couple of things about attempting
> to instruct from the front cockpit, and I'll use my airplane as the
> example. I am NOT a flight instructor but I've frazzled a lot of them in
> my day ;o)
>
> There are three controls in the rear cockpit of my airplane (okay, maybe
> four) which I consider to be essential to the safety of flight and control
> of the aircraft, and which are NOT replicated in the front cockpit of 41CC,
> or many other Air Campers for that matter. They are the fuel shutoff
> valve, the carburetor heat control, the ignition switch, and possibly the
> brakes. Think about what that means when you are in the front and a
> student has those three (or four) controls and you do not. When I fly my
> airplane, I want to have those controls available to me or I want to have a
> certified pilot or skilled operator in the rear seat and I sure as heck
> want to have intercom. If you want to instruct or give checkrides, think
> about at the very least duplicating the fuel shutoff and carb heat controls
> in both cockpits. At the absolute, barest minimum- the carb heat control,
> if you have a small Continental with a Stromberg carb on it. Stick,
> throttle, and rudders in both cockpits are "givens"; instruments are
> optional.
>
> > The only problem I may run into is that I am 6'4" and about 225 pounds.
> So the
> > plan is to hopefully try on some Pietenpols at Brodhead and maybe even
> find someone
> > nice enough to take me up (if I can fit :/). If anyone has any comments
> > or advice I am all ears.
>
> The best advice I can give is to try some on. Get away from the crowds
> where you don't feel self-conscious and can make the honest attempt to get
> in and out of both cockpits. I've had several good sized people in the
> front cockpit of my Air Camper, one of them close to your size, so it comes
> down to determination and agility. The older and less agile, the greater
> the degree of difficulty but I took one guy up who had one or two frozen
> joints and really had mobility problems but still managed to get in, go for
> a ride, and get back out. The good news is that the weight of the person
> in the front cockpit has almost no effect on CG and rarely any impact on
> gross weight, but it depends on the aircraft and that's an entirely
> separate discussion.
>
> By the way, pay no attention to Steven Dortch and his email comments. He
> throws peanuts from the peanut gallery, cracks jokes, helps people
> disassemble and load their aircraft into moving vans when they need help,
> has a great family and takes them to the airport to hang out, and has even
> ridden in my Air Camper once. I thought it was fun and apparently he did
> too. A good guy, but don't get your airplane or vehicle near him or he'll
> take out his spray gun and paint everything red. I saw him do that to a
> perfectly good Chevy Suburban once.
>
> Welcome to the list!
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> Medford, OR
> Air Camper NX41CC
> A75 power
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph" <ralphhsd(at)itctel.com> |
Many years ago when I was at the same position of wondering how high to
raise the wing, Vi Kapler was giving a forum at Brodhead and said to
raise it four inches. He was a tall man and had worked on many
Pietenpols. He said that four inches would not affect the handling of
the airplane. That was enough reason for me to follow his advice.
Ralph in SD
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Joachim Seitz <joachimkarlseitz(at)gmail.com> |
Well for starters I live down in North Port, Florida, which is the
southernmost part of Sarasota County.
As for my statement about instruction, one of my greatest passions in
aviation is sharing it with others. This means that when completed, my Piet
will be used for a lot of Young Eagles flights, old eagles flights, and
basically taking anyone up that wants to go. The instruction portion would
be for LSA instruction for those that can't afford to learn to fly
otherwise but have the passion for it. I got lucky as hell when I was
growing up to have a very supportive mom who helped me be able to earn my
PPL at 17. Even though I saved most of the money up myself, without her, I
couldn't have done it. I think that for me it's about breaking that
financial barrier that keeps people on the ground.
I believe I will most likely instruct from the rear until the student is
competent enough to handle the extra bits like the fuel shutoff, carb heat,
etc.
I wish I could make the West Coast Piet gathering, but unfortunately money
is tight, really tight. I basically have to save up just to get sub kits
for the Piet if that puts things into perspective. I am going to make it to
Brodhead and Oshkosh though, and will be arriving at Brodhead around noon
on Sunday, so hopefully there is still someone there.
Ralph, I will definitely make a note of raising the wing 4 inches.
Ironically I was contemplating 3-4, so I guess that was a good guess.
Oscar, Steven, thank you guys for the info and keep it coming, it's great.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Schreiber <lmforge(at)earthlink.net> |
Hi Joachim,
I usually arrive at Brodhead Thursday or Friday and leave for Oshkosh on
Sunday, but I live close at the South end of Lk Michigan. By Sunday
afternoon things are pretty well cleared out as most people have left
for home or Oshkosh. A few years ago I planned on spending Sunday night
and then flying into Oshkosh to stay with friends. I walked into town
for dinner and when I got back to Brodhead everyone was gone, the porta
potties were gone and everything else was locked up.
Rick Schreiber
NX478RS
Valparaiso, IN
On 4/19/2016 10:50 AM, Joachim Seitz wrote:
>
> Well for starters I live down in North Port, Florida, which is the
> southernmost part of Sarasota County.
>
> As for my statement about instruction, one of my greatest passions in
> aviation is sharing it with others. This means that when completed, my
> Piet will be used for a lot of Young Eagles flights, old eagles
> flights, and basically taking anyone up that wants to go. The
> instruction portion would be for LSA instruction for those that can't
> afford to learn to fly otherwise but have the passion for it. I got
> lucky as hell when I was growing up to have a very supportive mom who
> helped me be able to earn my PPL at 17. Even though I saved most of
> the money up myself, without her, I couldn't have done it. I think
> that for me it's about breaking that financial barrier that keeps
> people on the ground.
>
> I believe I will most likely instruct from the rear until the student
> is competent enough to handle the extra bits like the fuel shutoff,
> carb heat, etc.
>
> I wish I could make the West Coast Piet gathering, but unfortunately
> money is tight, really tight. I basically have to save up just to get
> sub kits for the Piet if that puts things into perspective. I am going
> to make it to Brodhead and Oshkosh though, and will be arriving at
> Brodhead around noon on Sunday, so hopefully there is still someone there.
>
> Ralph, I will definitely make a note of raising the wing 4 inches.
> Ironically I was contemplating 3-4, so I guess that was a good guess.
>
> Oscar, Steven, thank you guys for the info and keep it coming, it's great.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Philips" <jack(at)bedfordlandings.com> |
As one who built and flies an A65 powered Pietenpol with wire wheels
and a straight axle, I can tell you that if you intend to take a broad
range of passengers up, and if the strip you will fly from is short, you
might want to consider a C85 or an O-200. I weigh just under 200 lbs.
and have taken a 205 lb. passenger in mine on a hot July day, but it was
from a 6,000=99 runway and we were every bit of 100=99 high
when we got to the end of the runway, more than a minute after taking
off. I have a vertical speed indicator in mine and with a heavy load on
a hot day, it will not do more than 100 fpm, which is the FAA=99s
definition of the Service Ceiling for the airplane (the altitude at
which max rate of climb yields a climb rate of 100 fpm). The airport
where I was flying that day has an elevation of 248=99, so
don=99t think being close to sea level in Florida will help.
I now live in the Blue Ridge mountains in Virginia and I=99m very
careful to keep track of Density Altitude. My home airport has a
3000=99 runway and I will not take a passenger that weighs more
than 180 lbs.
Putting a bigger engine such as an O-200 or a Corvair in does wonders
for the climb rate, as all excess power goes straight into improving
climb, although it won=99t do much to increase cruise speed. Or
you can just really monitor weight during the building of your project.
Mike Cuy=99s Pietenpol is much like mine, with an A65, straight
axle and wire wheels but his weighs 632 where mine weighs 745. That
extra 113 lbs. really hurts.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Joachim
Seitz
Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2016 11:51 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: New Builder
Well for starters I live down in North Port, Florida, which is the
southernmost part of Sarasota County.
As for my statement about instruction, one of my greatest passions in
aviation is sharing it with others. This means that when completed, my
Piet will be used for a lot of Young Eagles flights, old eagles flights,
and basically taking anyone up that wants to go. The instruction portion
would be for LSA instruction for those that can't afford to learn to fly
otherwise but have the passion for it. I got lucky as hell when I was
growing up to have a very supportive mom who helped me be able to earn
my PPL at 17. Even though I saved most of the money up myself, without
her, I couldn't have done it. I think that for me it's about breaking
that financial barrier that keeps people on the ground.
I believe I will most likely instruct from the rear until the student is
competent enough to handle the extra bits like the fuel shutoff, carb
heat, etc.
I wish I could make the West Coast Piet gathering, but unfortunately
money is tight, really tight. I basically have to save up just to get
sub kits for the Piet if that puts things into perspective. I am going
to make it to Brodhead and Oshkosh though, and will be arriving at
Brodhead around noon on Sunday, so hopefully there is still someone
there.
Ralph, I will definitely make a note of raising the wing 4 inches.
Ironically I was contemplating 3-4, so I guess that was a good guess.
Oscar, Steven, thank you guys for the info and keep it coming, it's
great.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com> |
Just a thought about students in the front.
When my instructor taught me GUMPS check in a Cessna 150 he had me say it
out loud and when I said undercarriage I had to push a fake button on the
panel, pump the brakes, say "gear down and welded" and look at the wheels.
When I said prop, I set the throttle, pointed at the RPM needle and said "
prop set for go around".
The result was when I got my Bonanza, I already had established the chant
and an action for putting down the gear and setting prop pitch.
One could put stickers for Gas, Undercarriage, Mixture, and Prop in the
cockpit. During instruction the instructor would teach the chant and the
student would touch the right place.
Blue skies,
Steve D
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gardiner Mason <airlion2(at)gmail.com> |
Joe, youshould drop your rear seat an inch and half. It sure helps and also increase
the width of your fuselage two inches. I did and it definitely helps. Also
you should tilt your rear seat back about 4 inches. All this makes a better
pit.
Sent from my iPad
> On Apr 17, 2016, at 9:14 PM, Joachim Seitz wrote:
>
>
> Hi everyone! I have followed the boards off and on for a while and looked at
different designs, but in the end, I keep coming back to the Pietenpol. Cost and
ease of construction are definitely factors, but mostly I think I am just in
love with what it represents; that bygone era of grass roots aviation and a
sense of adventure.
>
> I am planning on an A65-8, no electrical, wood gear with spoked wheels, minimum
instruments with an altimeter, airspeed, and compass in the front pit (I want
to use it to instruct as well), and may end up doing wood struts and cabanes
as on C-GZHT.
>
> The only problem I may run into is that I am 6'4" and about 225 pounds. So the
plan is to hopefully try on some Pietenpols at Brodhead and maybe even find
someone nice enough to take me up (if I can fit :/). If anyone has any comments
or advice I am all ears. If anyone has had any experience modifying the fuselage
to make a tall person friendly version, please let me know.
>
> Thanks In advance,
> Joe
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Joachim Seitz <joachimkarlseitz(at)gmail.com> |
Duly noted Gardiner, I will add that to my ever growing list of ideas. Did
you have any issues with the new seat height interfering with the control
routing? And, are you going to be at Oshkosh or Brodhead? I plan on doing a
fuselage mock-up before I cut spruce. After all, OSB and 2 by is cheap.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ray Krause <raykrause(at)frontiernet.net> |
This is what a SkyScout looks like when the fuselage bottom is curved about 2
" lower. I'm 6'4", 200 lbs and I fit fine.
Ray Krause
Sent from my iPad
> On Apr 19, 2016, at 12:21 PM, Gardiner Mason wrote:
>
>
> Joe, youshould drop your rear seat an inch and half. It sure helps and als
o increase the width of your fuselage two inches. I did and it definitely he
lps. Also you should tilt your rear seat back about 4 inches. All this makes
a better pit.
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On Apr 17, 2016, at 9:14 PM, Joachim Seitz w
rote:
>>
il.com>
>>
>> Hi everyone! I have followed the boards off and on for a while and looked
at different designs, but in the end, I keep coming back to the Pietenpol. C
ost and ease of construction are definitely factors, but mostly I think I am
just in love with what it represents; that bygone era of grass roots aviati
on and a sense of adventure.
>>
>> I am planning on an A65-8, no electrical, wood gear with spoked wheels, m
inimum instruments with an altimeter, airspeed, and compass in the front pit
(I want to use it to instruct as well), and may end up doing wood struts an
d cabanes as on C-GZHT.
>>
>> The only problem I may run into is that I am 6'4" and about 225 pounds. S
o the plan is to hopefully try on some Pietenpols at Brodhead and maybe even
find someone nice enough to take me up (if I can fit :/). If anyone has any
comments or advice I am all ears. If anyone has had any experience modifyin
g the fuselage to make a tall person friendly version, please let me know.
>>
>> Thanks In advance,
>> Joe
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Matronics Web Server Back Online |
Dear Listers,
The Matronics Web server lost a critical system hard drive yesterday 4/18/2016.
I have been working feverishly for the last 24 hours to repair the system and
get the Matronics Forums and other web-based resources back online.
Email services were not impacted in anyway.
back online and all resources were successfully restored from a backup.
My apologies for the down time.
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email and Forum Admin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gardiner Mason <airlion2(at)gmail.com> |
Joe, I used a sheet of aluminum with a 3/4 in bend to fit over the front ledge
and then curved down to conform to my butt and then curved back up and screwed
down to the ledge across the back. It makes a very comfortable seat. You should,not
do this to the front as it might interfere with your feet on the rudders.
Gardener
Sent from my iPad
> On Apr 19, 2016, at 4:22 PM, Ray Krause wrote:
>
> This is what a SkyScout looks like when the fuselage bottom is curved about 2"
lower. I'm 6'4", 200 lbs and I fit fine.
>
>
>
>
> Ray Krause
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On Apr 19, 2016, at 12:21 PM, Gardiner Mason wrote:
>>
>>
>> Joe, youshould drop your rear seat an inch and half. It sure helps and also
increase the width of your fuselage two inches. I did and it definitely helps.
Also you should tilt your rear seat back about 4 inches. All this makes a better
pit.
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>>> On Apr 17, 2016, at 9:14 PM, Joachim Seitz wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi everyone! I have followed the boards off and on for a while and looked at
different designs, but in the end, I keep coming back to the Pietenpol. Cost
and ease of construction are definitely factors, but mostly I think I am just
in love with what it represents; that bygone era of grass roots aviation and
a sense of adventure.
>>>
>>> I am planning on an A65-8, no electrical, wood gear with spoked wheels, minimum
instruments with an altimeter, airspeed, and compass in the front pit (I
want to use it to instruct as well), and may end up doing wood struts and cabanes
as on C-GZHT.
>>>
>>> The only problem I may run into is that I am 6'4" and about 225 pounds. So
the plan is to hopefully try on some Pietenpols at Brodhead and maybe even find
someone nice enough to take me up (if I can fit :/). If anyone has any comments
or advice I am all ears. If anyone has had any experience modifying the fuselage
to make a tall person friendly version, please let me know.
>>>
>>> Thanks In advance,
>>> Joe
>>
>>
> ===================================
> ===================================
> ===================================
> ===================================
> ===================================
>>
>>
>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ben Charvet <bencharvet(at)gmail.com> |
Joe,
Just remember that lots of the suggested changes add weight. Jack's
advice is right on. Mine weighs 700 pounds. If you aren't a wide guy
you gain nothing but weight from a wide fuselage. Dropping your seat
bottom has limits, as the rudder and elevator cables have to pass under
you. Tilting your seat back moves your upper body weight aft, not
exactly what you want. My advice would be to build wing ribs, etc until
you can sit in a few and decide what your really *need*. I live over in
Titusville, Fl on the east coast. If you are ever over my way I can
show you a long fuselage, A-65 powered version built to the plans. If
you are anxious to get started you could do what I did and build a
mock-up fuselage out of lumberyard wood just to see how you fit. I did
that and it went together surprisingly quick.
Ben Charvet
NX866BC
321-961-5117
On 4/19/2016 3:21 PM, Gardiner Mason wrote:
>
> Joe, youshould drop your rear seat an inch and half. It sure helps and also increase
the width of your fuselage two inches. I did and it definitely helps.
Also you should tilt your rear seat back about 4 inches. All this makes a better
pit.
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On Apr 17, 2016, at 9:14 PM, Joachim Seitz wrote:
>>
>>
>> Hi everyone! I have followed the boards off and on for a while and looked at
different designs, but in the end, I keep coming back to the Pietenpol. Cost
and ease of construction are definitely factors, but mostly I think I am just
in love with what it represents; that bygone era of grass roots aviation and a
sense of adventure.
>>
>> I am planning on an A65-8, no electrical, wood gear with spoked wheels, minimum
instruments with an altimeter, airspeed, and compass in the front pit (I want
to use it to instruct as well), and may end up doing wood struts and cabanes
as on C-GZHT.
>>
>> The only problem I may run into is that I am 6'4" and about 225 pounds. So the
plan is to hopefully try on some Pietenpols at Brodhead and maybe even find
someone nice enough to take me up (if I can fit :/). If anyone has any comments
or advice I am all ears. If anyone has had any experience modifying the fuselage
to make a tall person friendly version, please let me know.
>>
>> Thanks In advance,
>> Joe
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> .
>
--
Ben Charvet, PharmD
Staff Pharmacist
Parrish Medical center
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "JSeitz" <Joachimkarlseitz(at)gmail.com> |
I figured that for right now, my best option is to do just that, build the little
bits and wait until I can try a few on before I make any decisions on the fuselage.
The rudder is done and waiting for sealant, fabric, and metal bits. I
suppose ribs, and the rest of the empenage will be next.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455261#455261
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com> |
I painted mine with latex house paint. Just something to consider.
On Apr 20, 2016 4:01 PM, "JSeitz" wrote:
> >
>
> I figured that for right now, my best option is to do just that, build the
> little bits and wait until I can try a few on before I make any decisions
> on the fuselage. The rudder is done and waiting for sealant, fabric, and
> metal bits. I suppose ribs, and the rest of the empenage will be next.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455261#455261
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Joachim Seitz <joachimkarlseitz(at)gmail.com> |
That's what I was planning on doing. What can I use on the wood before covering?
Spar varnish, polyurethane, or do I have to use a specialized coating?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com> |
I really like the West system epoxy.
blue Skies,
Steve D
On Wed, Apr 20, 2016 at 5:04 PM, Joachim Seitz
wrote:
> joachimkarlseitz(at)gmail.com>
>
> That's what I was planning on doing. What can I use on the wood before
> covering? Spar varnish, polyurethane, or do I have to use a specialized
> coating?
>
>
--
Blue Skies,
Steve D
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Boatright, Jeffrey" <jeffboatright(at)emory.edu> |
| Subject: | The Squawkless Phoenix |
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cykuDQo
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: The Squawkless Phoenix |
| From: | Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com> |
Motivation to get mine up.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: The Squawkless Phoenix |
| From: | "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com> |
Congrats! After having 2rn down twice for major stuff, it's REALLY nice to have
me back up again.
Maybe meet up soon with the big Piet guys.
Tools
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455289#455289
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ray Krause <raykrause(at)frontiernet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: The Squawkless Phoenix |
Jeff,
Thanks, what a beautiful plane! And your airmanship is superb!
I think every PIETENPOL flying is a product of this forum. Mine will certain
ly be that: thanks to you, Scott L, Gary B, Jim B, Mike C, and all the rest o
f you.
Ray Krause,
SkyScout.
Sent from my iPad
> On Apr 20, 2016, at 8:12 PM, Boatright, Jeffrey w
rote:
>
> After a winter of rebuilding, the Pietenpol flies again! Thanks to Mike St
ewart for the excellent thinking, fabricating, and building -- and camera wo
rk! And ayup, those are Douwe's old rims and tires. Still waiting on the new
prop from Jay and Carmen (Cloudcars). This toothpick is what originally cam
e with the plane, back when it had an A65. No climb compared that what I got
with the Cloudcars prop, but it'll fly the plane on out with half fuel on a
cool evening.
>
> Absolutely no squawks otherwise! Flies hands off! Brakes are better than e
ver (Mike & Mike design). And the new exhaust sounds even more antiquey!
>
> https://youtu.be/0JMg3M2swLw
>
>
> =94
> Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD, FARVO
> Professor of Ophthalmology
> Emory University School of Medicine
> Core Director & Research Biologist
> Atlanta VAMC Center for Visual & Neurocognitive Rehabilitation
>
>
> This e-mail message (including any attachments) is for the sole use of
> the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged
> information. If the reader of this message is not the intended
> recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution
> or copying of this message (including any attachments) is strictly
> prohibited.
>
> If you have received this message in error, please contact
> the sender by reply e-mail message and destroy all copies of the
> original message (including attachments).
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Elizabeth Cooper <eacooper9(at)yahoo.com> |
Hi Joe,
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Elizabeth Cooper <eacooper9(at)yahoo.com> |
Hi Joe,
Welcome to the list. Totally ignore that first attempt. My clumsy fingers
and computers just don't get along. I wish to speak to you about wing cut out
vs flop. I spoke with a fellow at Brodhead last year, sorry I don't recall
his name, and he told me that he has had occasion to fly both types. He stated
that the cut outs created quite a bit more turbulence around and behind his
head and neck. The full wing was a much smoother and more pleasant ride. He
also said there is a difference in the noise in the cockpit because of that.
I, personally am favoring the flop. Have you seen the wings on which the flop
extends 1 or 2 rib spaces into the trailing edge of the left wing? I believe
this would help tremendously with entry and exit.
Anyway, I hope this gives you food for thought. Heed the advise of those that
have said to look at many many examples and try on as many as you can. Good
luck with your build. I'll look for you at Brodhead. Sincerely,
R. Scott Bartko low and slow with the top down
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: The Squawkless Phoenix |
| From: | "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
That second landing was a beaut, although the third landing looked like you were
going very slow and the airplane lit like a feather.
You never said what motivated the rebuild or modifications. Were you unhappy with
your previous landing gear? And if you revised the gear legs, did you implement
any of the things that have recently been discussed regarding axle placement
relative to CG?
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455310#455310
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Boatright, Jeffrey" <jeffboatright(at)emory.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: The Squawkless Phoenix |
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Boatright, Jeffrey" <jeffboatright(at)emory.edu> |
March 10, 2016 - April 22, 2016
Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-pf