Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-pg

April 22, 2016 - Present



Subject: Re: The Squawkless Phoenix
Date: Apr 22, 2016
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From: "Clif Dawson" <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: new builder
Date: Apr 21, 2016
Flop, 36" wide, to becovered in lexan. Clif http://www.clifdawson.ca/ Skeptic potential customer asking, " If that penetrating oil is so good, how's it staying in the can?" > > Hi Joe, Have you seen the wings on which the flop extends 1 or 2 rib spaces into the trailing edge of the left wing? I believe this would help tremendously with entry and exit. > Anyway, I hope this gives you food for thought. Heed the advise of > those that have said to look at many many examples and try on as many as > you can. Good luck with your build. I'll look for you at Brodhead. > Sincerely, R. Scott Bartko low and slow with the top down ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Fairfield, Mike" <MFairfield(at)hewitt.ca>
Subject: new builder
Date: Apr 22, 2016
Good morning Mr. Dawson, I am finishing my ribs at this time and I have a question for you (nice workmanship). I definitely like the idea of the flop and I believe I will use it as well. I am planning on building my center section 48" wide to be able to have greater fuel capacity in one location to feed my 0-200. My question is, should the cabane struts remain perpendicular to the wing or should they be splayed out to attach at the joint of the center section and spar? I am not an engineer and I am not sure which would be the best route to go. Thanks, Mike. -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Clif Dawson Sent: Friday, April 22, 2016 2:22 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: new builder Flop, 36" wide, to becovered in lexan. Clif https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.clifdawson.ca_&d=CwICaQ&c=epcZb5jdh1ysHc2TC_uZEMpi5Xp3bPQPSZatc6SDw3A&r=hRt1T_6xXLTFw-Pi77z3ka1Hyoflt0RLKFhpWJWpHdk&m=A8mUk7ELCKy16ExTCTcbSwY4AJOBNiyCmFt4A_K2jPU&s=yo8QeDI4hJd6kgtDPnC9iAfmDHoJdaiWqbpUoWEbtbk&e= Skeptic potential customer asking, " If that penetrating oil is so good, how's it staying in the can?" > > Hi Joe, Have you seen the wings on which the flop extends 1 or 2 rib spaces into the trailing edge of the left wing? I believe this would help tremendously with entry and exit. > Anyway, I hope this gives you food for thought. Heed the advise of > those that have said to look at many many examples and try on as many as > you can. Good luck with your build. I'll look for you at Brodhead. > Sincerely, R. Scott Bartko low and slow with the top down ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: New Builder
From: "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Apr 22, 2016
Joe, You asked what kind of wood sealer you need. It depends on the covering system you are using. If you are using poly fiber, you need an epoxy sealer to withstand the exposure to mek it's going to have. If you are using the Stewart system, you can use about any varnish or polyurethane. If your finish is "exterior" grade, it's usually a little more expensive and designed to be a bit more durable, read abrasion resistant. If it's "spar" whatever, it has additives to help withstand UV. Both good things. In the old days varnish was a natural resin, and poly was synthetic. These days you have to read the fine print to be sure. True varnish is harder and able to be polished, which we don't care about. Poly is softer and more pliable, which is desirable on wood kept in non climate controlled environments. My preference is a synthetic exterior grade spar "varnish" (that is actually poly). Still MUCH cheaper than epoxy "varnish". As with ALL of these, thin the first coat for better penetration. Water based finishes are also alright under Stewart adhesives. I believe them all to be synthetic. Tools Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455328#455328 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: New Builder
From: "JSeitz" <Joachimkarlseitz(at)gmail.com>
Date: Apr 22, 2016
Cliff, I have looked through your site before, and I must say that your workmanship is impeccable, something to truly be striven for. I especially liked your throttle quadrant. I will reconsider the flop, plus it would allow me to hide a handle in there as well. I suppose that this is all a balance act of weight versus smoothness of flight. Tools, that was exactly what I was looking for! Now I can begin to coat my wood (so to speak) and protect it. I would rather use Stewart Systems just because of some bad experiences with MEK. You guys have all been awesome, and though I may or may not use all of your ideas, they have all been helpful in making the decisions. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455333#455333 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: The Squawkless Phoenix
From: Gardiner Mason <airlion2(at)gmail.com>
Date: Apr 22, 2016
Hey, I would like to meet up with you guys also. I have been rebuilding my b ird with a new engine and almost done. A c85 instead of a corvair. Gardiner M ason Sent from my iPad > On Apr 21, 2016, at 10:56 PM, Boatright, Jeffrey wrote: > > Sound good to me! > > =94 > Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD, FARVO > Professor of Ophthalmology > Emory University School of Medicine > Core Director & Research Biologist > Atlanta VAMC Center for Visual & Neurocognitive Rehabilitation > > From: tools <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com> > Reply-To: "pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com" > Date: Thursday, April 21, 2016 at 10:23 AM > To: "pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com" > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: The Squawkless Phoenix > > > Congrats! After having 2rn down twice for major stuff, it's REALLY nice t o have me back up again. > > Maybe meet up soon with the big Piet guys. > > Tools > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455289#455289 > > > > > > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= > > > > > > > This e-mail message (including any attachments) is for the sole use of > the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged > information. If the reader of this message is not the intended > recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution > or copying of this message (including any attachments) is strictly > prohibited. > > If you have received this message in error, please contact > the sender by reply e-mail message and destroy all copies of the > original message (including attachments). ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: New Builder
From: "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Apr 22, 2016
Glad it helped ya some. I used Stewart adhesive on my Piet repairs. Not as easy as stits, but wildly tenacious. I think it has fantastic adhesive qualities. As with ALL water based stuff, it's important to not muck with it too much. When laying down a coat, load the brush well, paint deliberately and accurately and be done. When the brush unloads to the point you have to "squeeze" or press harder, stop, reload and get back to it. Don't try to brush brush brush to get it out. That constitutes "mucking" and things get gloppy quick. There is an art to loading a brush as I learned many yeas ago from a professional house painter. We usually dip and then scrape... Counterproductive. Dip and then pat against the interior wall (this means transfer to suitable container if necessary) to remove excess rather than scrape. Sounds meaningless, but give it a try. Cheers, Tools Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455334#455334 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Boatright, Jeffrey" <jeffboatright(at)emory.edu>
Subject: Re: The Squawkless Phoenix
Date: Apr 22, 2016
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Subject: Pietenpol Kit For sale
From: "tonyp51qa" <tonyp51qa(at)gmail.com>
Date: Apr 22, 2016
I have my PIETENPOL Air Camper for sale. Long Fuselage for Corvair. Wood is about 90% complete. Includes all wood to finish fuselage. it includes wood landing gear legs{not installed yet} ALL tail feathers are built. Just needs some light final sanding to finish. Controls are in{torque tube, front & pilot stick, rudder bar and rudder pedals} metal brackets are cut, with a enough sheet stock to finish remaining brackets. Sale includes wood working tools{power and manual} tonyp51qa(at)gmail.com 480-748-3470 -------- Tony Crawford Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455354#455354 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: CORVAIR motor for sale
From: "tonyp51qa" <tonyp51qa(at)gmail.com>
Date: Apr 22, 2016
I have a CORVAIR motor for sale. It is all cleaned up, case has been gone through, new crank, new harmonic balencer, push rod tubes, heads are fresh and ready to bolt on. Plus many extras. Needs pistons, cylinders and rods. tonyp51qa(at)gmail.com 480-748-3470 -------- Tony Crawford Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455355#455355 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: New Builder
From: "JSeitz" <Joachimkarlseitz(at)gmail.com>
Date: Apr 23, 2016
Cliff, I have looked through your site before, and I must say that your workmanship is impeccable, something to truly be striven for. I especially liked your throttle quadrant. I will reconsider the flop, plus it would allow me to hide a handle in there as well. I suppose that this is all a balance act of weight versus smoothness of flight. Tools, that was exactly what I was looking for! Now I can begin to coat my wood (so to speak) and protect it. I would rather use Stewart Systems just because of some bad experiences with MEK. You guys have all been awesome, and though I may or may not use all of your ideas, they have all been helpful in making the decisions. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455361#455361 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: New Builder
From: "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Apr 23, 2016
Mike; You asked about whether you should build the cabane struts splayed or keep them vertical if you build a wider flop section than standard. My two cents: keep them vertical, for two reasons: (1) if you keep them vertical, you can tilt them back if you need to adjust the wing position relative to the CG to get it where you want it. If you build them splayed, the geometry will not readily permit that adjustment. It can be done, but not as easily. (2) if you keep them vertical, all of the fittings remain as per plans with less fussing with angles. Structurally, I don't think there is much difference but it's a little easier to analyze forces in members that are perpendicular to the load imposed on them (vertical cabanes). -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455370#455370 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 23, 2016
Subject: Re: Pietenpol Kit For sale
From: Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com>
Tony tell why you are leaving the brotherhood. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Clif Dawson" <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: new builder
Date: Apr 24, 2016
Hi Mike, I kept my cabanes vertical.Oscar has articulated a number of good reasons to do so. Since the majority of lift tension is through the outer strut system there's not a lot of weight being carried by the cabanes. So the center section spars are strong enough to handle having 12" outboard of the cabane connection. If you look at my tank you'll see that it's humped like the Dehaviland Moth series. It holds 22 gallons, almost all of it usable. I have an O-290. My center is 36" wide. No! not mine! The plane's. :-) Clif > Good morning Mr. Dawson, I am planning on building my center section 48" wide to be able to have greater fuel capacity in one location to feed my 0-200. My question is, should the cabane struts remain perpendicular to the wing or should they be splayed out to attach at the joint of the center section and spar? > > Thanks, Mike. > > Flop, 36" wide, to becovered in lexan. > > Clif ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Clif Dawson" <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: New Builder
Date: Apr 24, 2016
That's what we're here for. Your turn will come. :-) Clif To most people the sky is the limit. To a pilot, the sky is home. > You guys have all been awesome, and though I may or may not use all of > your ideas, they have all been helpful in making the decisions. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 24, 2016
Subject: Re: New Builder
From: Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com>
Joe, I just use the MEK until my kidneys start to hurt! One thing I loved about using the Stewart glue and painting with latex. My grandkids could be around with no danger. Blue skies, Steve D On Apr 23, 2016 8:03 AM, "JSeitz" wrote: Cliff, I have looked through your site before, and I must say that your workmanship is impeccable, something to truly be striven for. I especially liked your throttle quadrant. I will reconsider the flop, plus it would allow me to hide a handle in there as well. I suppose that this is all a balance act of weight versus smoothness of flight. Tools, that was exactly what I was looking for! Now I can begin to coat my wood (so to speak) and protect it. I would rather use Stewart Systems just because of some bad experiences with MEK. You guys have all been awesome, and though I may or may not use all of your ideas, they have all been helpful in making the decisions. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455361#455361 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Fairfield, Mike" <MFairfield(at)hewitt.ca>
Subject: Re: new builder
Date: Apr 24, 2016
Yeah, but my 48" center section IS my waist size!!! Mike Sent from my iPhone > On Apr 24, 2016, at 1:32 PM, Clif Dawson wrote: > > > Hi Mike, > I kept my cabanes vertical.Oscar has articulated a number of > good reasons to do so. Since the majority of lift tension is > through the outer strut system there's not a lot of weight > being carried by the cabanes. So the center section spars > are strong enough to handle having 12" outboard of the > cabane connection. > > If you look at my tank you'll see that it's humped like the > Dehaviland Moth series. It holds 22 gallons, almost all of > it usable. I have an O-290. My center is 36" wide. No! not > mine! The plane's. :-) > > Clif > >> Good morning Mr. Dawson, > I am planning on building my center section 48" wide to be able to have greater fuel capacity in one location to feed my 0-200. My question is, should the cabane struts remain perpendicular to the wing or should they be splayed out to attach at the joint of the center section and spar? > >> Thanks, Mike. >> >> Flop, 36" wide, to becovered in lexan. >> >> Clif > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: tail hinges
From: "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Apr 24, 2016
Update on the Vi Kapler style tail hinges. I have Bill Budgell's set just about ready to send out, with John Hofmann's and Clay Hammond's sets roughed out on the bench to go next. I had to overhaul a few of my shop tools to get them back in shape to make parts, but I should be able to start cranking them out again. It was a cold, windy, and off/on rainy day today but I had no other "honey do" tasks and my outdoor canopy is snug again so I got a set done. Only took about 4 hours, but I spent at least an hour cleaning up tools and setting up to work. The next set will go quicker. And if I had a shop partner, they would go MUCH quicker, but that's just another excuse. I really apologize for the long delay, no excuse except "life got in the way". I will advise purchasers when I'm about to mail out their hinges. Thank you. -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455421#455421 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jack <fastnaught(at)windstream.net>
Subject: Re: tail hinges
Date: Apr 25, 2016
Oscar, I need one pair of hinges. Broken hinge on rudder. Could we talk about it first? Could you give me a phone number or an email so as to communicate off line? Thanks, Jack N144JF Model A Spoked wheels Sent from my iPhone > On Apr 24, 2016, at 11:15 PM, taildrags wrote: > > > Update on the Vi Kapler style tail hinges. I have Bill Budgell's set just about ready to send out, with John Hofmann's and Clay Hammond's sets roughed out on the bench to go next. I had to overhaul a few of my shop tools to get them back in shape to make parts, but I should be able to start cranking them out again. It was a cold, windy, and off/on rainy day today but I had no other "honey do" tasks and my outdoor canopy is snug again so I got a set done. Only took about 4 hours, but I spent at least an hour cleaning up tools and setting up to work. The next set will go quicker. And if I had a shop partner, they would go MUCH quicker, but that's just another excuse. > > I really apologize for the long delay, no excuse except "life got in the way". I will advise purchasers when I'm about to mail out their hinges. > > Thank you. > > -------- > Oscar Zuniga > Medford, OR > Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" > A75 power > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455421#455421 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: tail hinges
From: "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Apr 25, 2016
Jack; Email me at taildrags(at)hotmail.com or call/text me on my cellphone, (210) 621-4729. Getting out a single pair of hinges is easy. -Oscar -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455448#455448 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 26, 2016
Subject: Pietenpol Plans
From: Jim Keown <c130eng(at)gmail.com>
I am going to start building a Pietenpol Air Camper this fall. I came across two websites that sells plans. They are from Andrew Pietenpol ( www. *pietenpolair*craftcompany.com <http://www.pietenpolaircraftcompany.com/> ) and Doc Mosher (http://www.pietenpolplansplus.com ). A full set from Andrew is $250.00 and $160.00 from Doc. I am looking for some advice as to which set of plans I should get and information as to the difference between the two set of plans. Jim Keown Tucson, AZ ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Pietenpol Plans
From: "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Apr 26, 2016
In situations like this where I have two choice from two vendors for the same product at different prices, here is what I like to do. Instead of asking people with no real skin in the game, I would pose that same question to the two vendors. Let them explain why they are the better choice then go with your gut as to which one has the better reason. You should let them sell themselves, not just take the opinions of unknown people on a forum. Just my $.02. -------- Semper Fi, Terry Hand Athens, GA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455519#455519 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Pietenpol Plans
From: "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Apr 26, 2016
Jim; As you can imagine, something like the Air Camper, which has now spanned a period of time from tube-type radios to the iPhone and beyond, has followed a very circuitous history in its development. This is also the case for the plans for building the airplane. One of the best and most concise summaries of how the plans developed into what they are today is contained in the 16-page article that Doc Mosher wrote in July of 2015, and which is included in an information packet that he offers. What Doc points out, and I quote from his work, "Bernard Pietenpol never did draw any plans. He simply built terrific airplanes 'because I seemed to know how.' Orrin Hoopman simply drew what Bernard had already built - a sort of reverse engineering because he was there. Hoopman's plans were never copyright [sic] and were free use available from a small number of individuals who sold them, often simultaneously." I bought my Piet plans from the Pietenpol family about 15 years ago because I felt like getting them from the family added to the value of what I would own, and indeed it did mean something to me as compared with buying them on Amazon.com. Besides the plans themselves, I also bought an informational manual from the family that includes a number of helpful hints and tips about building and operating the airplane, and a sort of FAQ which was also helpful in ruling out things that have been tried or thought about but which have not worked or are not recommended, and why. At the time when I bought my set of plans, the only other Air Camper plans that were available were in the 1932 Flying & Glider Manual, which I also own, and which is a treasure in itself but is far harder to build from due to the smaller size of the drawings and the lack of later additions and enhancements to the F&GM plans. Get the F&GM, but not to build from. Very affordable, and available from the EAA for a very modest amount. If for nothing else, they serve very well to take with you as reading and study material when you travel, which is much handier than trying to carry rolls of plans but which is still plenty detailed and readable for you to study, think, and learn from. I also own Chet Peek's book "The Pietenpol Story", but it's not really a builder's resource. You will get the same drawings from Doc as you will from the family, but you will get different supporting materials. It's your choice but personally, I own them all and they all have useful and interesting material in them. Doc is a deep and wide resource, he is available by email and on this list, and he is an ardent supporter of Pietenpols and Pietenpeople. -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455520#455520 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Pietenpol Plans
From: "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org>
Date: Apr 27, 2016
Well Said Oscar, -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455535#455535 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Pietenpol Plans
From: "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Apr 27, 2016
Some more food for thought... There are TONS of quick build Piet kits out there, otherwise known as abandoned projects. Most come with plans. There are also a lot of super quick build kits, otherwise known as damaged or derelict planes that don't even need plans. Nearly all are in the hands of someone who would rather see them go to a good home rather than scrapped. Worst case, wrong gear, fuse and you are worried about the wing... Build new fuse and new ribs. Still easier than scratch building, you get builders certificate if you want. Best case, restore an airplane, feel good about its airworthiness, and have an airplane you can sell with someone else's name on the AW cert. May or may not be what ya want, but worth considering. Tools Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455539#455539 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: disc sander
Date: Apr 27, 2016
Folks=3B I have need for a larger disc sander than my little benchtop belt/disc has on it so I'm looking for a 12" disc sander. The Harbor Freight "Central Ma chinery" unit is readily available and the lowest cost=2C but the comparabl e Grizzly unit is also available for maybe $40 more. This is not for heavy -duty or production use=2C just for my shop and hobby work. I just need a sander with more torque and a bigger sanding area. Any comments about eith er or both of these units would be appreciated=3B thanks. Oscar Zuniga Medford=2C OR Air Camper NX41CC ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <brian.e.jardine@l-3com.com>
Subject: disc sander
Date: Apr 27, 2016
Oscar, I was in the same boat several years ago, I looked at both of them and chos e to buy the HF bench top along with a 20% off coupon. I have been very ha ppy with it and no complaints over the years. It is very heavy and solid a nd does a great job, no vibrating or walking away. Sanding discs are easy to change and I can hook up my shop-vac to it to collect the dust. For the price and comparison the HF 12 inch bench top is a good choice. Brian SLC-UT N3218H From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-lis t-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Oscar Zuniga Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2016 9:20 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: disc sander Folks; I have need for a larger disc sander than my little benchtop belt/disc has on it so I'm looking for a 12" disc sander. The Harbor Freight "Central Ma chinery" unit is readily available and the lowest cost, but the comparable Grizzly unit is also available for maybe $40 more. This is not for heavy-d uty or production use, just for my shop and hobby work. I just need a sand er with more torque and a bigger sanding area. Any comments about either o r both of these units would be appreciated; thanks. Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jack Textor <jack(at)textors.com>
Subject: Re: disc sander
Date: Apr 27, 2016
Oscar my HF has never let me down... Sent from my iPad > On Apr 27, 2016, at 10:19 AM, Oscar Zuniga wrote: > > Folks; > > I have need for a larger disc sander than my little benchtop belt/disc has on it so I'm looking for a 12" disc sander. The Harbor Freight "Central Ma chinery" unit is readily available and the lowest cost, but the comparable G rizzly unit is also available for maybe $40 more. This is not for heavy-dut y or production use, just for my shop and hobby work. I just need a sander w ith more torque and a bigger sanding area. Any comments about either or bot h of these units would be appreciated; thanks. > > Oscar Zuniga > Medford, OR > Air Camper NX41CC > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 27, 2016
Subject: Re: disc sander
From: Tony Crawford <tonyp51qa(at)gmail.com>
Oscar, How about if we donate $$ to you you??? If it will help you to get the hinges out. Tony On Wed, Apr 27, 2016 at 10:19 AM, Oscar Zuniga wrote: > Folks; > > I have need for a larger disc sander than my little benchtop belt/disc has > on it so I'm looking for a 12" disc sander. The Harbor Freight "Central > Machinery" unit is readily available and the lowest cost, but the > comparable Grizzly unit is also available for maybe $40 more. This is not > for heavy-duty or production use, just for my shop and hobby work. I just > need a sander with more torque and a bigger sanding area. Any comments > about either or both of these units would be appreciated; thanks. > > Oscar Zuniga > Medford, OR > Air Camper NX41CC > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Pietenpol Plans
From: John C Black <john(at)jcblack.com>
Date: Apr 27, 2016
Hi, Im new to the list. I just ordered plans and Im learning. Doc Mosher was great to work with. But I have a question. Is a CAD version of the plans available so we can use our local CNC routers to create some of the shapes ? John ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Glen Schweizer <glenschweizer(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol Plans
Date: Apr 27, 2016
Hey John Welcome! CAD? Please keep in mind the pietenpol. 1928,cutting steel out of oil drum lids(I've heard that was mr pietenpol' source of steel). Hardware bolts on the original. The point I'm trying to make is that there really are things that can be made by drawing on real paper or making patterns. Hell, the originals used nails driven into the floor for fuse jigs. Common, really? Glen Sent from my iPhone > On Apr 27, 2016, at 11:21 AM, John C Black wrote: > > > > Hi, > > Im new to the list. I just ordered plans and Im learning. Doc Mosher was great to work with. But I have a question. > > Is a CAD version of the plans available so we can use our local CNC routers to create some of the shapes ? > > John > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <mushface1(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: disc sander
Date: Apr 27, 2016
Hi Oscar: Glad you asked. I have a Harbor Freight 6 X 48 belt sander which has the disc on the side to which you are referring. A couple years ago I decided to get an adjustable table for the belt sander like the disc has and ordered one from HF. Last summer accidently knocked it over and it fell on the floor and broke the table. Called HF, and guess what? They no longer sell the table. At Christmas, I bought one for my daughter and called again and tried to buy a table thinking it was just a model number or something kind of problem. No go. They don=99t sell repair parts. So if a another company sells repair parts, then that would be the company to go with and screw HF. Dennis From: Tony Crawford Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2016 12:10 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: disc sander Oscar, How about if we donate $$ to you you??? If it will help you to get the hinges out. Tony On Wed, Apr 27, 2016 at 10:19 AM, Oscar Zuniga wrote: Folks; I have need for a larger disc sander than my little benchtop belt/disc has on it so I'm looking for a 12" disc sander. The Harbor Freight "Central Machinery" unit is readily available and the lowest cost, but the comparable Grizzly unit is also available for maybe $40 more. This is not for heavy-duty or production use, just for my shop and hobby work. I just need a sander with more torque and a bigger sanding area. Any comments about either or both of these units would be appreciated; thanks. Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Glen Schweizer <glenschweizer(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: disc sander
Date: Apr 27, 2016
HF is good considering what they are. If you want something that's going to l ast longer than us, pay 4x the price. HF is throw away quality: reasonably a ccurate, work the beans out of it and when it breaks,trash it. Sent from my iPhone > On Apr 27, 2016, at 11:53 AM, w rote: > > Hi Oscar: > > Glad you asked. I have a Harbor Freight 6 X 48 belt sander which has the disc on the side to which you are referring. A couple years ago I decided t o get an adjustable table for the belt sander like the disc has and ordered o ne from HF. Last summer accidently knocked it over and it fell on the floor a nd broke the table. Called HF, and guess what? They no longer sell the table . At Christmas, I bought one for my daughter and called again and tried to b uy a table thinking it was just a model number or something kind of problem. No go. They don=99t sell repair parts. > So if a another company sells repair parts, then that would be the compa ny to go with and screw HF. > Dennis > > From: Tony Crawford > Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2016 12:10 PM > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: disc sander > > Oscar, > How about if we donate $$ to you you??? If it will help you to get the hin ges out. > > Tony > >> On Wed, Apr 27, 2016 at 10:19 AM, Oscar Zuniga wr ote: >> Folks; >> >> I have need for a larger disc sander than my little benchtop belt/disc ha s on it so I'm looking for a 12" disc sander. The Harbor Freight "Central M achinery" unit is readily available and the lowest cost, but the comparable G rizzly unit is also available for maybe $40 more. This is not for heavy-dut y or production use, just for my shop and hobby work. I just need a sander w ith more torque and a bigger sanding area. Any comments about either or bot h of these units would be appreciated; thanks. >> >> Oscar Zuniga >> Medford, OR >> Air Camper NX41CC >> >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: disc sander
From: "Lorenzo" <larharris2(at)msn.com>
Date: Apr 27, 2016
When I started my Piet build I thought it would be handy to have a large disk sander to trim and size the stick ends. (It has been one of my most useful tools.) I settled on the HF 12". The 10" I examined in the store seemed too flimsy. The 12" was heftier. I have been very happy with it. ShopVac plugs in nicely to keep dust down. I don't remember if the stand came with it, or if I had to buy that separately, but I recommend that too. Lorenzo Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455555#455555 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Pietenpol Plans
From: "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Apr 27, 2016
Generally available? Not that I know of. Someone has done it. Also more and more common for shops to be able to scan or trace so that the customer doesn't need to have things digitized first. Tools Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455569#455569 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: disc sander
From: "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Apr 27, 2016
Hf and grizzly are the same quality, generally speaking. Hf imports and sells uninspected. Grizzly inspects and generally maintains parts. Matter of personal preference. My preference is to start beating the bushes and scare up an old delta, Rockwell or Milwaukee. Can be had for the same prices depending on condition. Ask around on owwm.org, see them often in the hunnert buck range. Tools Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455570#455570 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: disc sander
From: "aviken" <aviken(at)windstream.net>
Date: Apr 27, 2016
Hi Oscar,, I bought one of the disk sanders at Harbor Freight, it has the flexible head and uses the 8 inch Velcro type disks. I really like it, I bought it to build my propeller and it worked great. Now I use it all the time for almost any quick sanding job.... I know the durability of these Chinese made motors are fairly short lived, but it seems to be a pretty good machine. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455575#455575 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 28, 2016
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 14 Msgs - 04/27/16
From: Jim Keown <c130eng(at)gmail.com>
Oscar, Try looking for a local woodworking club most will have newsletters online with items for sale. You can get some good deals. A lot of times people just want to clean out there shop. I would stay away from HF, I have used them before and considered HF as a short term tool. You should also look at Rikon tools I have had a few and they worked well and can get a deal when they go on sale. A few times a year Rikon sells tools at 15% off, but the best deal is when they discount a single tool. Jet tools are going having a 4 day sale in May. Call the Woodcraft store in Eugene (541) 685-0677 for more info. Also Woodcraft has a big sale in July. Here is woodworking club near you *Siskiyou Woodcraft Guild* 60 Fifth Street Ashland, OR 97520 Phone: 541-482-4829 Email: president(at)siskiyouguild.org Website: www.siskiyouguild.org Jim Keown On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 12:03 AM, Pietenpol-List Digest Server < pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com> wrote: > * > > ================================================= > Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive > ================================================= > > Today's complete Pietenpol-List Digest can also be found in either of the > two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted > in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes > and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version > of the Pietenpol-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor > such as Notepad or with a web browser. > > HTML Version: > > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 16-04-27&Archive=Pietenpol > > Text Version: > > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 16-04-27&Archive=Pietenpol > > > =============================================== > EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive > =============================================== > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > Pietenpol-List Digest Archive > --- > Total Messages Posted Wed 04/27/16: 14 > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > > Today's Message Index: > ---------------------- > > 1. 05:56 AM - Re: Pietenpol Plans (AircamperN11MS) > 2. 07:18 AM - Re: Pietenpol Plans (tools) > 3. 08:20 AM - disc sander (Oscar Zuniga) > 4. 08:51 AM - Re: disc sander () > 5. 09:22 AM - Re: disc sander (Jack Textor) > 6. 10:11 AM - Re: disc sander (Tony Crawford) > 7. 11:22 AM - Re: Pietenpol Plans (John C Black) > 8. 11:44 AM - Re: Re: Pietenpol Plans (Glen Schweizer) > 9. 11:53 AM - Re: disc sander () > 10. 12:25 PM - Re: disc sander (Glen Schweizer) > 11. 12:29 PM - Re: disc sander (Lorenzo) > 12. 02:31 PM - Re: Pietenpol Plans (tools) > 13. 02:36 PM - Re: disc sander (tools) > 14. 07:27 PM - Re: disc sander (aviken) > > > ________________________________ Message 1 > _____________________________________ > > > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol Plans > From: "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org> > > > Well Said Oscar, > > -------- > Scott Liefeld > Flying N11MS since March 1972 > Steel Tube > C-85-12 > Wire Wheels > Brodhead in 1996 > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455535#455535 > > > ________________________________ Message 2 > _____________________________________ > > > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol Plans > From: "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com> > > > Some more food for thought... > > There are TONS of quick build Piet kits out there, otherwise known as > abandoned > projects. Most come with plans. > > There are also a lot of super quick build kits, otherwise known as damaged > or derelict > planes that don't even need plans. > > Nearly all are in the hands of someone who would rather see them go to a > good home > rather than scrapped. > > Worst case, wrong gear, fuse and you are worried about the wing... Build > new fuse > and new ribs. Still easier than scratch building, you get builders > certificate > if you want. > > Best case, restore an airplane, feel good about its airworthiness, and > have an > airplane you can sell with someone else's name on the AW cert. > > May or may not be what ya want, but worth considering. > > Tools > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455539#455539 > > > ________________________________ Message 3 > _____________________________________ > > > From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> > Subject: Pietenpol-List: disc sander > > Folks=3B > > I have need for a larger disc sander than my little benchtop belt/disc has > on it so I'm looking for a 12" disc sander. The Harbor Freight "Central Ma > chinery" unit is readily available and the lowest cost=2C but the comparabl > e Grizzly unit is also available for maybe $40 more. This is not for heavy > -duty or production use=2C just for my shop and hobby work. I just need a > sander with more torque and a bigger sanding area. Any comments about eith > er or both of these units would be appreciated=3B thanks. > > Oscar Zuniga > Medford=2C OR > Air Camper NX41CC > > > ________________________________ Message 4 > _____________________________________ > > > From: <brian.e.jardine@l-3com.com> > Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: disc sander > > Oscar, > I was in the same boat several years ago, I looked at both of them and chos > e to buy the HF bench top along with a 20% off coupon. I have been very ha > ppy with it and no complaints over the years. It is very heavy and solid a > nd does a great job, no vibrating or walking away. Sanding discs are easy > to change and I can hook up my shop-vac to it to collect the dust. For the > price and comparison the HF 12 inch bench top is a good choice. > > Brian > SLC-UT > N3218H > > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto: > owner-pietenpol-lis > t-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Oscar Zuniga > Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2016 9:20 AM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: disc sander > > Folks; > > I have need for a larger disc sander than my little benchtop belt/disc has > on it so I'm looking for a 12" disc sander. The Harbor Freight "Central Ma > chinery" unit is readily available and the lowest cost, but the comparable > Grizzly unit is also available for maybe $40 more. This is not for heavy-d > uty or production use, just for my shop and hobby work. I just need a sand > er with more torque and a bigger sanding area. Any comments about either o > r both of these units would be appreciated; thanks. > > Oscar Zuniga > Medford, OR > Air Camper NX41CC > > > ________________________________ Message 5 > _____________________________________ > > > From: Jack Textor <jack(at)textors.com> > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: disc sander > > Oscar my HF has never let me down... > > Sent from my iPad > > > On Apr 27, 2016, at 10:19 AM, Oscar Zuniga > wrote: > > > > Folks; > > > > I have need for a larger disc sander than my little benchtop belt/disc > has > on it so I'm looking for a 12" disc sander. The Harbor Freight "Central > Ma > chinery" unit is readily available and the lowest cost, but the comparable > G > rizzly unit is also available for maybe $40 more. This is not for > heavy-dut > y or production use, just for my shop and hobby work. I just need a > sander w > ith more torque and a bigger sanding area. Any comments about either or > bot > h of these units would be appreciated; thanks. > > > > Oscar Zuniga > > Medford, OR > > Air Camper NX41CC > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 6 > _____________________________________ > > > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: disc sander > From: Tony Crawford <tonyp51qa(at)gmail.com> > > Oscar, > How about if we donate $$ to you you??? If it will help you to get the > hinges out. > > Tony > > On Wed, Apr 27, 2016 at 10:19 AM, Oscar Zuniga > wrote: > > > Folks; > > > > I have need for a larger disc sander than my little benchtop belt/disc > has > > on it so I'm looking for a 12" disc sander. The Harbor Freight "Central > > Machinery" unit is readily available and the lowest cost, but the > > comparable Grizzly unit is also available for maybe $40 more. This is > not > > for heavy-duty or production use, just for my shop and hobby work. I > just > > need a sander with more torque and a bigger sanding area. Any comments > > about either or both of these units would be appreciated; thanks. > > > > Oscar Zuniga > > Medford, OR > > Air Camper NX41CC > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 7 > _____________________________________ > > > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol Plans > From: John C Black <john(at)jcblack.com> > > > Hi, > > Im new to the list. I just ordered plans and Im learning. Doc Mosher > was great > to work with. But I have a question. > > Is a CAD version of the plans available so we can use our local CNC > routers to > create some of the shapes ? > > John > > > ________________________________ Message 8 > _____________________________________ > > > From: Glen Schweizer <glenschweizer(at)yahoo.com> > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol Plans > > > Hey John > Welcome! CAD? Please keep in mind the pietenpol. 1928,cutting steel out > of oil > drum lids(I've heard that was mr pietenpol' source of steel). Hardware > bolts > on the original. The point I'm trying to make is that there really are > things > that can be made by drawing on real paper or making patterns. Hell, the > originals > used nails driven into the floor for fuse jigs. Common, really? > Glen > Sent from my iPhone > > > On Apr 27, 2016, at 11:21 AM, John C Black wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > Im new to the list. I just ordered plans and Im learning. Doc Mosher > was great > to work with. But I have a question. > > > > Is a CAD version of the plans available so we can use our local CNC > routers to > create some of the shapes ? > > > > John > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 9 > _____________________________________ > > > From: <mushface1(at)gmail.com> > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: disc sander > > Hi Oscar: > > Glad you asked. I have a Harbor Freight 6 X 48 belt sander which has > the disc on the side to which you are referring. A couple years ago I > decided to get an adjustable table for the belt sander like the disc has > and ordered one from HF. Last summer accidently knocked it over and it > fell on the floor and broke the table. Called HF, and guess what? They > no longer sell the table. At Christmas, I bought one for my daughter and > called again and tried to buy a table thinking it was just a model > number or something kind of problem. No go. They don=99t sell > repair parts. > So if a another company sells repair parts, then that would be the > company to go with and screw HF. > Dennis > > From: Tony Crawford > Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2016 12:10 PM > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: disc sander > > Oscar, > How about if we donate $$ to you you??? If it will help you to get the > hinges out. > > Tony > > On Wed, Apr 27, 2016 at 10:19 AM, Oscar Zuniga > wrote: > > Folks; > > I have need for a larger disc sander than my little benchtop belt/disc > has on it so I'm looking for a 12" disc sander. The Harbor Freight > "Central Machinery" unit is readily available and the lowest cost, but > the comparable Grizzly unit is also available for maybe $40 more. This > is not for heavy-duty or production use, just for my shop and hobby > work. I just need a sander with more torque and a bigger sanding area. > Any comments about either or both of these units would be appreciated; > thanks. > > Oscar Zuniga > Medford, OR > Air Camper NX41CC > > > ________________________________ Message 10 > ____________________________________ > > > From: Glen Schweizer <glenschweizer(at)yahoo.com> > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: disc sander > > HF is good considering what they are. If you want something that's going > to l > ast longer than us, pay 4x the price. HF is throw away quality: reasonably > a > ccurate, work the beans out of it and when it breaks,trash it. > > Sent from my iPhone > > > On Apr 27, 2016, at 11:53 AM, > w > rote: > > > > Hi Oscar: > > > > Glad you asked. I have a Harbor Freight 6 X 48 belt sander which has > the > disc on the side to which you are referring. A couple years ago I decided > t > o get an adjustable table for the belt sander like the disc has and > ordered o > ne from HF. Last summer accidently knocked it over and it fell on the > floor a > nd broke the table. Called HF, and guess what? They no longer sell the > table > . At Christmas, I bought one for my daughter and called again and tried to > b > uy a table thinking it was just a model number or something kind of > problem. > No go. They don=99t sell repair parts. > > So if a another company sells repair parts, then that would be the > compa > ny to go with and screw HF. > > Dennis > > > > From: Tony Crawford > > Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2016 12:10 PM > > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: disc sander > > > > Oscar, > > How about if we donate $$ to you you??? If it will help you to get the > hin > ges out. > > > > Tony > > > >> On Wed, Apr 27, 2016 at 10:19 AM, Oscar Zuniga > wr > ote: > >> Folks; > >> > >> I have need for a larger disc sander than my little benchtop belt/disc > ha > s on it so I'm looking for a 12" disc sander. The Harbor Freight "Central > M > achinery" unit is readily available and the lowest cost, but the > comparable G > rizzly unit is also available for maybe $40 more. This is not for > heavy-dut > y or production use, just for my shop and hobby work. I just need a > sander w > ith more torque and a bigger sanding area. Any comments about either or > bot > h of these units would be appreciated; thanks. > >> > >> Oscar Zuniga > >> Medford, OR > >> Air Camper NX41CC > >> > >> > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 11 > ____________________________________ > > > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: disc sander > From: "Lorenzo" <larharris2(at)msn.com> > > > When I started my Piet build I thought it would be handy to have a large > disk sander > to trim and size the stick ends. (It has been one of my most useful tools.) > I settled on the HF 12". The 10" I examined in the store seemed too flimsy. > The 12" was heftier. I have been very happy with it. ShopVac plugs in > nicely > to keep dust down. I don't remember if the stand came with it, or if I had > to > buy that separately, but I recommend that too. > > Lorenzo > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455555#455555 > > > ________________________________ Message 12 > ____________________________________ > > > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol Plans > From: "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com> > > > Generally available? Not that I know of. Someone has done it. Also more > and > more common for shops to be able to scan or trace so that the customer > doesn't > need to have things digitized first. > > Tools > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455569#455569 > > > ________________________________ Message 13 > ____________________________________ > > > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: disc sander > From: "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com> > > > Hf and grizzly are the same quality, generally speaking. Hf imports and > sells > uninspected. Grizzly inspects and generally maintains parts. > > Matter of personal preference. > > My preference is to start beating the bushes and scare up an old delta, > Rockwell > or Milwaukee. Can be had for the same prices depending on condition. > > Ask around on owwm.org, see them often in the hunnert buck range. > > Tools > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455570#455570 > > > ________________________________ Message 14 > ____________________________________ > > > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: disc sander > From: "aviken" <aviken(at)windstream.net> > > > Hi Oscar,, I bought one of the disk sanders at Harbor Freight, it has > the flexible > head and uses the 8 inch Velcro type disks. I really like it, I bought > it to build my propeller and it worked great. Now I use it all the time > for > almost any quick sanding job.... I know the durability of these Chinese > made > motors are fairly short lived, but it seems to be a pretty good machine. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455575#455575 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 28, 2016
Subject: disc sander
From: Jim Keown <c130eng(at)gmail.com>
Oscar, Try looking for a local woodworking club most will have newsletters online with items for sale. You can get some good deals. A lot of times people just want to clean out there shop. I would stay away from HF, I have used them before and considered HF as a short term tool. You should also look at Rikon tools I have had a few and they worked well and can get a deal when they go on sale. A few times a year Rikon sells tools at 15% off, but the best deal is when they discount a single tool. Jet tools are going having a 4 day sale in May. Call the Woodcraft store in Eugene (541) 685-0677 for more info. Also Woodcraft has a big sale in July. Here is woodworking club near you *Siskiyou Woodcraft Guild* 60 Fifth Street Ashland, OR 97520 Phone: 541-482-4829 Email: president(at)siskiyouguild.org Website: www.siskiyouguild.org Jim Keown ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 28, 2016
Subject: HF 12 in. disc sander
From: Timothy Willis <timwillis01(at)gmail.com>
=8BOscar, I bought the HF disc sander many years ago. it has very light use, since I am stuck on my build (health issues). However the sander has worked very well for me. It is heavy and robust, with high hp and apparently very good bearings. Tim in central TX. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Fairfield, Mike" <MFairfield(at)hewitt.ca>
Subject: HF 12 in. disc sander
Date: Apr 28, 2016
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Date: Apr 28, 2016
Subject: Re: disc sander
From: Dan Oliver <danoliver909(at)gmail.com>
Who cares about sanders. I want to hear more about building props! On Apr 27, 2016 10:29 PM, "aviken" wrote: > > Hi Oscar,, I bought one of the disk sanders at Harbor Freight, it has > the flexible head and uses the 8 inch Velcro type disks. I really like > it, I bought it to build my propeller and it worked great. Now I use it > all the time for almost any quick sanding job.... I know the durability > of these Chinese made motors are fairly short lived, but it seems to be a > pretty good machine. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455575#455575 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douwe(at)douwestudios.com>
Subject: wing stall angle
Date: Apr 28, 2016
Hey all, Does anybody know at what angle to the relative wind a Pietenpol wing will stall?? Douwe ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: wing stall angle
From: "tkreiner" <tkreiner(at)gmail.com>
Date: Apr 28, 2016
Douwe, About the best information you'll find regarding the lift curve of the FC-10, or Pietenpol airfoil will be anectodal. After doing an exhaustive 'net search several years ago, I gave up after viewing some 50+ sites looking for the curve. In case folks out there don't know, Stall is defined as that point at which Clmax occurs. If you take a look at any airfoil lift curve, the highest point is the point of Stall, or Cl max. Have fun looking... -------- Tom Kreiner Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455597#455597 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 28, 2016
Subject: Re: wing stall angle
From: Ken Bickers <bickers.ken(at)gmail.com>
A quick search on the Matronics Pietenpol site using the keyword "clmax" produced a thread in which there a chart was posted with curves for the FC-10 and Riblett 613.5 airfoils. It was posted by ameetsavant(at)yahoo.com on August 20, 2009. According to that chart, the clmax for the Pietenpol airfoil is at approximately 16 degree angle of incidence. I cannot speak to its accuracy, though interesting to look at. Cheers, Ken On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 7:32 PM, tkreiner wrote: > > Douwe, > > About the best information you'll find regarding the lift curve of the > FC-10, or Pietenpol airfoil will be anectodal. > > After doing an exhaustive 'net search several years ago, I gave up after > viewing some 50+ sites looking for the curve. > > In case folks out there don't know, Stall is defined as that point at > which Clmax occurs. If you take a look at any airfoil lift curve, the > highest point is the point of Stall, or Cl max. > > Have fun looking... > > -------- > Tom Kreiner > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455597#455597 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 28, 2016
From: John Franklin <jbfjr(at)peoplepc.com>
Subject: Fuselage Fuel tank
I'm making room in the hangar and I've got a fuselage-mount fuel tank that I need to sell. I believe it's a Spruce Aircraft p/n 05-19600 which is for a Smith Mini-plane. I tried to verify that but Spruce doesn't show a picture nor any specs on the tank. I emailed them and requested that information but they replied back that they were unable to send anything. If anyone interested in it, please email me offline and I'll send you pix of it. I've used it to run my engine on the ground but I've never flown with this tank. I think it's about a 14 gallon capacity. John Franklin GN-1 / Corvair 164cid Prairie Aire 4TA0 Needville, TX ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: wing stall angle
From: "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Apr 28, 2016
I knew I had seen that lift curve somewhere. Ken, thanks for digging it back up. Now, back to Douwe's original question, angle at Clmax is what he asked about (wing chord angle with respect to the relative wind), and that's what the lift curve is based on so it answers his question. However, it is not going to be the deck angle you might see if you were to put an angle finder on the longeron and (for example), perform a power-on stall, because the relative wind will very likely not be horizontal. Also as an extreme example, you can have the nose exactly on the horizon (airplane level) and start banking it steeper and steeper in a turn till it stalls.... with the airplane still level longitudinally but banked. Minor technicalities ;o) -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455603#455603 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: wing stall angle
From: "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Apr 28, 2016
Well... While ALL wings under ALL conditions stall at Vstall... That actual number in miles per hour, which relates to a certain number of degrees to relative wind, just depends. On a lot of things. Many relevant like weight, how the plane is built, and rigged, blah blah blah. I'm guessing, and it is a guess, what you really want to know is an angle to help decide what angle YOUR plane should sit on it's gear, which is really really relevant to how you fly it. Sixteen is a good average number. And a great place to start. And in all fairness, I really don't know how much it changes with the usual variance between normalish piets. I do know I have to lap my stick after landing, and in a glastar taildragger which is well known for a flat sitting angle, if I do I go flying again when I do that. Just stuff to think about. Tools Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455604#455604 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: wing stall angle
From: "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Apr 28, 2016
Tools: good point. I need to check it again, but I think my Piet sits at between a 12 and 13 degree angle on the ground, at rest. Piets with taller spoked wheels are probably going to be sitting a few more degrees nose-high than that. I suppose that means if I full-stall land my airplane properly, the tailwheel will touch down first. The good thing about most of the full-stall landings that I make is that I get to try them again, because I can never keep from rebounding anywhere from a little to a lot, especially on hard surface, so I get another shot at almost every landing ;o) At that point I have to decide 'save or wave'... if the rebound on touchdown was just a little bounce, I can hold the stick even more firmly back in my lap and wait for the ground to meet me in earnest, or if I bounced energetically back into the air on touchdown I push power back in, ease the stick forward to gain airspeed and stop the porpoising, and either fix it or go around. Since my home field is 8800' long, I have a lot of options unless United, Horizon, or Delta is on final behind me ;o) -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455614#455614 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: wing stall angle
From: "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Apr 29, 2016
Oscar, If your plane is sitting flat, relative to it's normal condition stall speed straight ahead, you may not be bouncing at all. Rather, you are simply going flying again. You have flying speed, you are increasing the angle of attack, but not too far as you are limited by the angle your plane sits, so she simply climbs. As the power is off. And you are dissipating energy, you do slow to well under flying speed and the cycle stops. In that glastar I finally found I was able to avoid that "bouncing" by simply holding what I hat at touchdown to maybe easing off the stick a little, until I slowed enough to get the stick back without going flying again. Basically a wheel landing but don't have to ease the tail down, it's already there. Tools Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455621#455621 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 29, 2016
Subject: Bingelis books on sale at EAA
From: Donald A Mosher <thepietshop(at)gmail.com>
EAA is selling the complete set of Tony Bingelis "how to" books at a 35% discount. This sale ends on 5/4/16, so ya gotta hurry! Call 800-843-3612 to talk with Andy or anyone else who can process your order. Or you can go on line directly to the EAA website to see covers of the four books and even order them. Ordinarily these four books cost $21.95 each plus $6.50 postage and handling. When all four are purchased as a set, they cosst $79.95 plus $12.50 postage.and handling. Here's a saving of 35% on the books. Tell 'em Doc sent you. You've been told by some of the experts on the Matronics list how valuable these Bingelis books can be. "What does Tony say about that?" Here's your chance to p ersonally own these great resource books. You'll treasure them for years. Doc Mosher ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Bingelis books on sale at EAA
From: "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org>
Date: Apr 29, 2016
Hi Doc, I happen to own a set of them. Great resource to own. Cheers, -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455633#455633 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: wing stall angle
From: "TriScout" <apfelcyber(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Apr 30, 2016
Fortune Cookie -------- KLNC A65-8 N2308C Slick 4330's AN Hardware Airframe 755TT W72CK-42 Sensenich Standard Factory GN-1 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455702#455702 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/fortunecooky_118.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 01, 2016
Subject: Angle of Attack t which the Pietenpol wing will stall
From: Donald A Mosher <thepietshop(at)gmail.com>
Douwe and others The wing stalls at about 16 degrees to the relative wind. I attach an explanation that will probably cause some comments. Doc Mosher ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 02, 2016
Subject: Re: Angle of Attack t which the Pietenpol wing will stall
From: "Charles N. Campbell" <charlescampbell1924(at)gmail.com>
Doc, I just ran a problem on my right-angle-triangle calculator and it looks like to get the 2 degrees of angle of attack the front cabane strut should be 1 inch longer than the rear. Is that about what you figure it should be? Chuck On Sun, May 1, 2016 at 3:56 PM, Donald A Mosher wrote: > Douwe and others > > The wing stalls at about 16 degrees to the relative wind. > > I attach an explanation that will probably cause some comments. > > Doc Mosher > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Greg Cardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Angle of Attack t which the Pietenpol wing will stall
Date: May 02, 2016
Hi Doc, My plans are dated 3-26-34 and page 6 shows the front cabane strut length as 21 =C2=BC=9D and the rear cabane length as 20 =C2=BC=9D . It also says =9CNote: short rear strut gives wing 2 deg. Incidence=9D Greg Cardinal From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Donald A Mosher Sent: Sunday, May 1, 2016 2:57 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Angle of Attack t which the Pietenpol wing will stall Douwe and others The wing stalls at about 16 degrees to the relative wind. I attach an explanation that will probably cause some comments. Doc Mosher ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 02, 2016
Subject: Re: Angle of Attack t which the Pietenpol wing will stall
From: "Charles N. Campbell" <charlescampbell1924(at)gmail.com>
Greg, I bet I've looked at that sheet at least 100 times, and that's the first time I noticed that. Thanks, Chuck On Mon, May 2, 2016 at 7:06 AM, Greg Cardinal wrote : > Hi Doc, > > > My plans are dated 3-26-34 and page 6 shows the front cabane strut length > as 21 =C2=BC=9D and the rear cabane length as 20 =C2=BC=9D . It also says =9CNote: short > rear strut gives wing 2 deg. Incidence=9D > > > Greg Cardinal > > > *From:* owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto: > owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Donald A Mosher > *Sent:* Sunday, May 1, 2016 2:57 PM > *To:* pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: Angle of Attack t which the Pietenpol wing > will stall > > > Douwe and others > > > The wing stalls at about 16 degrees to the relative wind. > > > I attach an explanation that will probably cause some comments. > > > Doc Mosher > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Clif Dawson" <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Angle of Attack t which the Pietenpol wing will stall
Date: May 02, 2016
Mine too. Also, on page 20 of the F&G, 1932, there's a drawing, upper left column, that show's the same thing. And states this gives 2=C2=B0 incidence. Clif ----- Original Message ----- From: Greg Cardinal To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, May 02, 2016 4:06 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Angle of Attack t which the Pietenpol wing will stall Hi Doc, My plans are dated 3-26-34 and page 6 shows the front cabane strut length as 21 =C2=BC=9D and the rear cabane length as 20 =C2=BC=9D . It also says =9CNote: short rear strut gives wing 2 deg. Incidence=9D Greg Cardinal From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Donald A Mosher Sent: Sunday, May 1, 2016 2:57 PM To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: Angle of Attack t which the Pietenpol wing will stall Douwe and others The wing stalls at about 16 degrees to the relative wind. I attach an explanation that will probably cause some comments. Doc Mosher No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 05/02/16 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Angle of Attack t which the Pietenpol wing will stall
From: "echobravo4" <eab4(at)comcast.net>
Date: May 03, 2016
the drawing does state that the wing struts are the same length but the cabane struts are shown as different lengths to make the 2 degrees incidence. while it is a little confusing and not the way it would be drawn today- it is there -------- Earl Brown I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I intended to be. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455800#455800 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/struts_152.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Angle of Attack t which the Pietenpol wing will stall
From: "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Date: May 03, 2016
So if my airplane sits at a deck angle of about 12.5 degrees in the 3-point attitude and the different length cabane struts add another 2 degrees of incidence to the wing, my wing is at about a 14.5 degree angle of incidence when I three-point it. Pretty close to what the Eppler code brings up on paper for full stall. Hmmm... maybe Mr. Pietenpol had a home-brew wind tunnel out behind the barn, powered by a Model A up on blocks with a leather belt running the wind tunnel blower ;o) -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455813#455813 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Fuselage cracking
From: "aabreu" <andre_abreu_2000(at)yahoo.com>
Date: May 04, 2016
I thought I should post our findings from this years annual. Fairly serious. Discovered some cracks in the fuselage. They were through the strut attach fitting and the cracks ran through the bolt holes. See videos. Poor workmanship is our guess. Not sure if the plans were followed. Gussets in the front cockpit seem insufficient and we hope others aren't built like this. This is a higher stress area, so we were surprised to see how small the gussets were. Will post pictures of our repair on picasa and share the link for you folks. The repair will take us a few weeks, which is eating into our flying season! https://youtu.be/dgiysgWhQdM https://youtu.be/U-3McR7xeHM Andy Abreu N6186L EAA582 Toledo oh Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455886#455886 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fuselage cracking
From: "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org>
Date: May 05, 2016
Wow, Do you happen to know what kind of glue was used during construction? There must be some structural members broken as well. I am very curious to what you find and how you correct the issues. I am an EAA Tech Counselor and I try to stay educated so I can hopefully keep someone else from having a similar issue. Please keep us posted. Many thanks, -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455903#455903 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fuselage cracking
From: "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com>
Date: May 05, 2016
Wow. Definitely interested in hearing more once you check it out more carefully... Seems like a negative g induced failure, what ever the root cause. Also interested in the repair. Fwiw, I repaired a similar fabric issue like that with Stewarts. They are stc'ed for simple overlap patches in a case like that which will preclude recovering the entire fuse, at the cost of looks. If good enough for certificated planes.... And it just felt right, very tenacious adhesive. I'm a little leery of poly tak with standing the 350 deg shrink. Good luck with the repair, let us know more as you figure it all out. Man, I feel a experimental AD coming on! Yikes. Tools Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455904#455904 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Cinco de Mayo GN-1 Fly In
From: "TriScout" <apfelcyber(at)yahoo.com>
Date: May 05, 2016
Nice day at KLNC. We had Lunch and then flight..3rd GN-1 fella flew formation w/us, but in his Cherokee. I suppose we could call it a fly in.. -------- KLNC A65-8 N2308C Slick 4330's AN Hardware Airframe 755TT W72CK-42 Sensenich Standard Factory GN-1 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455909#455909 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_8140_191.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_8137_223.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_8135_792.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_8133_179.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fuselage cracking
From: "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Date: May 05, 2016
Tools; another forehead-slapping "doh!" moment for me when you mentioned negative Gs. I was wondering to myself what could have pulled the strut attach fitting down so hard that the lower longeron split or pulled away from the uprights. A good downward push by the wing strut could sure do it!! As you know, one of the only (or at least the best known) inflight structural failures of an Air Camper resulted from a negative-G maneuver. We can only guess what caused this one... flying through a thunderstorm or wind shear? If finding this crack results in a thorough inspection of the major glue joints and structural mountings, it will have been worth it in peace of mind once everything is found to be airworthy or is repaired as needed. There will also be a springtime next year, if this spring ends up being make-and-mend or even a fabric recovering job for Eight-Six-Lima. -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455915#455915 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Cinco de Mayo GN-1 Fly In
From: "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Date: May 05, 2016
I like the look of the silver on the wings and tail surfaces of Four-Sierra-Golf. The day looks like it was fun! -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455916#455916 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Cinco de Mayo GN-1 Fly In
From: "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org>
Date: May 06, 2016
I wish I had been there. Great pics. -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455919#455919 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fuselage cracking
From: "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org>
Date: May 06, 2016
Regarding Tools negative G comment. I hadn't thought of that either, but..... I am now thinking that the three piece wing like I have would be more likely to do that then a single piece wing. The three piece wing has a built in hinge point just outside the center section. I am thinking that the single spar would actually be stronger. Does this plane have a three piece wing? Very interesting observation Tools. -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455921#455921 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fuselage cracking
From: "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com>
Date: May 06, 2016
Given the moment the wing strut has, I don't think a one piece would help. Wood doesn't resist all that much for as much movement as is needed for that failure. I do believe the one piece is stronger to the point of being worthwhile though. Need more of this stuff catalogued. Tons to be learned. My completely uneducated guess would be turbulence. It's benign enough to cause it and go unnoticed for a while. Which begs the question, how did you find it? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455923#455923 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fuselage cracking
From: "aabreu" <andre_abreu_2000(at)yahoo.com>
Date: May 06, 2016
tools wrote: > Given the moment the wing strut has, I don't think a one piece would help. Wood doesn't resist all that much for as much movement as is needed for that failure. > > I do believe the one piece is stronger to the point of being worthwhile though. > > Need more of this stuff catalogued. Tons to be learned. > > My completely uneducated guess would be turbulence. It's benign enough to cause it and go unnoticed for a while. Which begs the question, how did you find it? Hi Tools, I'm an engineer by training. For what it's worth. I agree that this failure could be a result of negative G's of some kind. However, if you look at the video, we are lifting the right wing. This should be putting a compressive load across the plywood. When flying, the strut is in tension and the plywood should be in compression. So why does the crack open up when we lift on the wing. I think it has something do with the right landing gear with all the weight on one tire or the left hand tire hanging down. Can't wrap my brain around it yet. But there is clearly a tension force pulling the plywood apart when the airplane is put on one tire. Maybe this is could be cause by a hard landing on the right tire. Speculation. Took some additional photos but nothing really stands out. Like I said before, the gussets in the cockpit seem incorrectly sized. Thanks Andy Abreu 6186L EAA582 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455924#455924 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fuselage cracking
From: "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org>
Date: May 06, 2016
Hi Andy, Air loads will be different than the loads you are putting on it while the plane is on the ground. When you lift the wing, you are loading up the Right main gear in compression, which is in turn putting a tension load on the Left main gear. Does that make sense? In flight, there is no load on the landing gear. Another thought here, With the demonstration you have provided, maybe just a hard landing on the right main caused this issue??? Not a negative G issue. Thoughts everyone, -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455925#455925 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: dndboyd2(at)gmail.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 05/05/16
Date: May 06, 2016
Re the cracked fuse around the landing gear mounts. On my set up the wheels splay outwards on landing and "pull" on the gear legs. This exerts a pull on the opposite side of the fuse. This will explain the cracks seen on the longerons on this airplane. Probably caused by a few hard landings and or improper building technique i.e. Not strong enough. Sent from my iPhone > On May 6, 2016, at 3:03 AM, Pietenpol-List Digest Server wrote: > > * > > ================================================= > Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive > ================================================= > > Today's complete Pietenpol-List Digest can also be found in either of the > two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted > in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes > and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version > of the Pietenpol-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor > such as Notepad or with a web browser. > > HTML Version: > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 16-05-05&Archive=Pietenpol > > Text Version: > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 16-05-05&Archive=Pietenpol > > > =============================================== > EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive > =============================================== > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > Pietenpol-List Digest Archive > --- > Total Messages Posted Thu 05/05/16: 5 > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > > Today's Message Index: > ---------------------- > > 1. 12:00 PM - Re: Fuselage cracking (AircamperN11MS) > 2. 12:02 PM - Re: Fuselage cracking (tools) > 3. 06:38 PM - Cinco de Mayo GN-1 Fly In (TriScout) > 4. 09:14 PM - Re: Fuselage cracking (taildrags) > 5. 09:17 PM - Re: Cinco de Mayo GN-1 Fly In (taildrags) > > > > ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ > > > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Fuselage cracking > From: "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org> > > > Wow, Do you happen to know what kind of glue was used during construction? There > must be some structural members broken as well. I am very curious to what > you find and how you correct the issues. > > I am an EAA Tech Counselor and I try to stay educated so I can hopefully keep someone > else from having a similar issue. Please keep us posted. > > Many thanks, > > -------- > Scott Liefeld > Flying N11MS since March 1972 > Steel Tube > C-85-12 > Wire Wheels > Brodhead in 1996 > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455903#455903 > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ > > > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Fuselage cracking > From: "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com> > > > Wow. Definitely interested in hearing more once you check it out more carefully... > > Seems like a negative g induced failure, what ever the root cause. > > Also interested in the repair. > > Fwiw, I repaired a similar fabric issue like that with Stewarts. They are stc'ed > for simple overlap patches in a case like that which will preclude recovering > the entire fuse, at the cost of looks. > > If good enough for certificated planes.... And it just felt right, very tenacious > adhesive. I'm a little leery of poly tak with standing the 350 deg shrink. > > Good luck with the repair, let us know more as you figure it all out. Man, I feel > a experimental AD coming on! Yikes. > > Tools > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455904#455904 > > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ > > > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Cinco de Mayo GN-1 Fly In > From: "TriScout" <apfelcyber(at)yahoo.com> > > > Nice day at KLNC. We had Lunch and then flight..3rd GN-1 fella flew formation w/us, > but in his Cherokee. I suppose we could call it a fly in.. > > -------- > KLNC > A65-8 > N2308C > Slick 4330's > AN Hardware > Airframe 755TT > W72CK-42 Sensenich > Standard Factory GN-1 > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455909#455909 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_8140_191.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_8137_223.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_8135_792.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_8133_179.jpg > > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ > > > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Fuselage cracking > From: "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> > > > Tools; another forehead-slapping "doh!" moment for me when you mentioned negative > Gs. I was wondering to myself what could have pulled the strut attach fitting > down so hard that the lower longeron split or pulled away from the uprights. > A good downward push by the wing strut could sure do it!! As you know, one > of the only (or at least the best known) inflight structural failures of an > Air Camper resulted from a negative-G maneuver. We can only guess what caused > this one... flying through a thunderstorm or wind shear? > > If finding this crack results in a thorough inspection of the major glue joints > and structural mountings, it will have been worth it in peace of mind once everything > is found to be airworthy or is repaired as needed. There will also be > a springtime next year, if this spring ends up being make-and-mend or even a > fabric recovering job for Eight-Six-Lima. > > -------- > Oscar Zuniga > Medford, OR > Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" > A75 power > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455915#455915 > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ > > > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cinco de Mayo GN-1 Fly In > From: "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> > > > I like the look of the silver on the wings and tail surfaces of Four-Sierra-Golf. > The day looks like it was fun! > > -------- > Oscar Zuniga > Medford, OR > Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" > A75 power > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455916#455916 > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Cinco de Mayo GN-1 Fly In
From: "TriScout" <apfelcyber(at)yahoo.com>
Date: May 06, 2016
yes, Sierra Golf has an 0-200 and an electrical sys, while mine is an A65 and none. We seemed to have about the same cruise speed though, but of course when we took off together, he climbed a bit better. Pic's were all cellphone photos. I had gopro shots of SG inflight, but no zoom lense..it was a bit shakey. -------- KLNC A65-8 N2308C Slick 4330's AN Hardware Airframe 755TT W72CK-42 Sensenich Standard Factory GN-1 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455927#455927 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_8143_207.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fuselage cracking
From: "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com>
Date: May 06, 2016
Thought about that, but then decided with the gear in the ground, you have an opposing force to the momentum of the wing drooping? In flight, you wouldn't. HATE you've got damage, but a lot to be learned, and very impressed you caught it! Tools Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455930#455930 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fuselage cracking
From: "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org>
Date: May 06, 2016
Tools, I PM'd you rather than hijacking this important thread. -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455931#455931 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fuselage cracking
From: "tkreiner" <tkreiner(at)gmail.com>
Date: May 06, 2016
Andy, >From the pics, the strut attachment is for the forward strut. Your supposition regarding the gusset plates may be the issue, but I'm curious about another feature that hasn't been discussed. On the plans, there's a steel strap shown on Sheet 3 of that plans called out (for extra strength only, not for ordinary use). Does your ship have these straps? -------- Tom Kreiner Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455934#455934 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fuselage cracking
From: "tkreiner" <tkreiner(at)gmail.com>
Date: May 06, 2016
Andy, Could the information at this link have had anything to do with undetected damage to the left landing gear? Here's the link: http://www.ntsb.gov/_layouts/ntsb.aviation/brief.aspx?ev_id 100126X43531&key=1 -------- Tom Kreiner Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455935#455935 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fuselage cracking
From: "aabreu" <andre_abreu_2000(at)yahoo.com>
Date: May 06, 2016
tkreiner wrote: > Andy, > > From the pics, the strut attachment is for the forward strut. > > Your supposition regarding the gusset plates may be the issue, but I'm curious about another feature that hasn't been discussed. > > On the plans, there's a steel strap shown on Sheet 3 of that plans called out (for extra strength only, not for ordinary use). > > Does your ship have these straps? Yes. Forward strut. Yes. Have the strap. Andy Abreeu Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455936#455936 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fuselage cracking
From: "aabreu" <andre_abreu_2000(at)yahoo.com>
Date: May 06, 2016
tkreiner wrote: > Andy, > > Could the information at this link provide insight into any undetected damage to the left landing gear? > > Here's the link: > > http://www.ntsb.gov/_layouts/ntsb.aviation/brief.aspx?ev_id 100126X43531&key=1 Thanks for bringing that one up. Sheesh. I remember when that happened. A guy in our club knocked the back wing off with the PAPI light on 22 at KTDZ. Knocked out the PAPI light too.. which was way more expensive to fix than the horizontal stab. Lesson here, land past the PAPI. Didn't damage the landing gear. We do use this airplane for training. So we do get lots of hard landings in. I tend to not fly this airplane in thunderstorms. Gust loading probably wasn't a factor. The sharp impulse load that comes along with landing hard is my guess along with poor workmanship. I have some pictures on my phone i'll download later. Also, we are going to fix this by tomorrow. I'll be sure to take lots of pictures for everyone. Thanks Andy Abreu 6186L EAA 582 Toledo Buzzards Light Sport Aircraft Club Inc. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455937#455937 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fuselage cracking
From: "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com>
Date: May 06, 2016
I also agree with dan's, different thread started, assessment. Seems most likely if only one wheel hits, opposite to that crack. Other side is fine? I've cut a lot of joints apart only to find poor gluing technique. Not many failed, but clearly weren't as strong as they should be. In floor tile setting, it's recommended you pull up the occasional tile as you go along to ensure adequate adhesive and setting technique. Should do that gluing up wood also. Consistent dimpling should be obvious, nothing not disturbed or dry. Doesn't take long and gives a great sense of confidence. Tools, who's tested ALL his gear to failure! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455938#455938 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: dndboyd2(at)gmail.com
Subject: Re landing split
Date: May 07, 2016
Andy Abreu is on the right track. See also my comments on the landing gear set up. I.e. A hard landing on the left side would exert a pull on the left and vice versa thus creating the split as we see it on the video. I didn't sign my commentyesterday on the same subject Dave Boyd Champaign IL Sent from my iPhone > On May 7, 2016, at 2:01 AM, Pietenpol-List Digest Server wrote: > > * > > ================================================= > Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive > ================================================= > > Today's complete Pietenpol-List Digest can also be found in either of the > two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted > in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes > and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version > of the Pietenpol-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor > such as Notepad or with a web browser. > > HTML Version: > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 16-05-06&Archive=Pietenpol > > Text Version: > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 16-05-06&Archive=Pietenpol > > > =============================================== > EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive > =============================================== > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > Pietenpol-List Digest Archive > --- > Total Messages Posted Fri 05/06/16: 14 > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > > Today's Message Index: > ---------------------- > > 1. 06:04 AM - Re: Cinco de Mayo GN-1 Fly In (AircamperN11MS) > 2. 06:12 AM - Re: Fuselage cracking (AircamperN11MS) > 3. 08:13 AM - Re: Fuselage cracking (tools) > 4. 08:25 AM - Re: Fuselage cracking (aabreu) > 5. 08:34 AM - Re: Fuselage cracking (AircamperN11MS) > 6. 09:04 AM - Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 05/05/16 (dndboyd2(at)gmail.com) > 7. 09:19 AM - Re: Cinco de Mayo GN-1 Fly In (TriScout) > 8. 10:16 AM - Re: Fuselage cracking (tools) > 9. 10:31 AM - Re: Fuselage cracking (AircamperN11MS) > 10. 11:59 AM - Re: Fuselage cracking (tkreiner) > 11. 12:12 PM - Re: Fuselage cracking (tkreiner) > 12. 12:51 PM - Re: Fuselage cracking (aabreu) > 13. 01:08 PM - Re: Fuselage cracking (aabreu) > 14. 01:50 PM - Re: Fuselage cracking (tools) > > > > ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ > > > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cinco de Mayo GN-1 Fly In > From: "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org> > > > I wish I had been there. Great pics. > > -------- > Scott Liefeld > Flying N11MS since March 1972 > Steel Tube > C-85-12 > Wire Wheels > Brodhead in 1996 > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455919#455919 > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ > > > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Fuselage cracking > From: "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org> > > > Regarding Tools negative G comment. I hadn't thought of that either, but..... > I am now thinking that the three piece wing like I have would be more likely > to do that then a single piece wing. The three piece wing has a built in hinge > point just outside the center section. I am thinking that the single spar > would actually be stronger. > > Does this plane have a three piece wing? > > Very interesting observation Tools. > > -------- > Scott Liefeld > Flying N11MS since March 1972 > Steel Tube > C-85-12 > Wire Wheels > Brodhead in 1996 > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455921#455921 > > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ > > > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Fuselage cracking > From: "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com> > > > Given the moment the wing strut has, I don't think a one piece would help. Wood > doesn't resist all that much for as much movement as is needed for that failure. > > I do believe the one piece is stronger to the point of being worthwhile though. > > > Need more of this stuff catalogued. Tons to be learned. > > My completely uneducated guess would be turbulence. It's benign enough to cause > it and go unnoticed for a while. Which begs the question, how did you find > it? > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455923#455923 > > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ > > > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Fuselage cracking > From: "aabreu" <andre_abreu_2000(at)yahoo.com> > > > > tools wrote: >> Given the moment the wing strut has, I don't think a one piece would help. Wood > doesn't resist all that much for as much movement as is needed for that failure. >> >> I do believe the one piece is stronger to the point of being worthwhile though. > >> >> Need more of this stuff catalogued. Tons to be learned. >> >> My completely uneducated guess would be turbulence. It's benign enough to cause > it and go unnoticed for a while. Which begs the question, how did you find > it? > > > Hi Tools, > > I'm an engineer by training. For what it's worth. > I agree that this failure could be a result of negative G's of some kind. > However, if you look at the video, we are lifting the right wing. This should > be putting a compressive load across the plywood. When flying, the strut is in > tension and the plywood should be in compression. So why does the crack open > up when we lift on the wing. I think it has something do with the right landing > gear with all the weight on one tire or the left hand tire hanging down. > Can't wrap my brain around it yet. But there is clearly a tension force pulling > the plywood apart when the airplane is put on one tire. Maybe this is could > be cause by a hard landing on the right tire. Speculation. > > Took some additional photos but nothing really stands out. > Like I said before, the gussets in the cockpit seem incorrectly sized. > > Thanks > Andy Abreu > 6186L > EAA582 > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455924#455924 > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ > > > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Fuselage cracking > From: "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org> > > > Hi Andy, > > Air loads will be different than the loads you are putting on it while the plane > is on the ground. When you lift the wing, you are loading up the Right main > gear in compression, which is in turn putting a tension load on the Left main > gear. Does that make sense? In flight, there is no load on the landing gear. > > Another thought here, With the demonstration you have provided, maybe just a hard > landing on the right main caused this issue??? Not a negative G issue. > > Thoughts everyone, > > -------- > Scott Liefeld > Flying N11MS since March 1972 > Steel Tube > C-85-12 > Wire Wheels > Brodhead in 1996 > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455925#455925 > > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ > > > From: dndboyd2(at)gmail.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 05/05/16 > > > Re the cracked fuse around the landing gear mounts. On my set up the wheels splay > outwards on landing and "pull" on the gear legs. This exerts a pull on the > opposite side of the fuse. This will explain the cracks seen on the longerons > on this airplane. Probably caused by a few hard landings and or improper building > technique i.e. Not strong enough. > > Sent from my iPhone > >>> On May 6, 2016, at 3:03 AM, Pietenpol-List Digest Server >> wrote: >> >> * >> >> ================================================ >> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive >> ================================================ >> >> Today's complete Pietenpol-List Digest can also be found in either of the >> two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted >> in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes >> and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version >> of the Pietenpol-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor >> such as Notepad or with a web browser. >> >> HTML Version: >> >> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 16-05-05&Archive=Pietenpol >> >> Text Version: >> >> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 16-05-05&Archive=Pietenpol >> >> >> ============================================== >> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive >> ============================================== >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------- >> Pietenpol-List Digest Archive >> --- >> Total Messages Posted Thu 05/05/16: 5 >> ---------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> Today's Message Index: >> ---------------------- >> >> 1. 12:00 PM - Re: Fuselage cracking (AircamperN11MS) >> 2. 12:02 PM - Re: Fuselage cracking (tools) >> 3. 06:38 PM - Cinco de Mayo GN-1 Fly In (TriScout) >> 4. 09:14 PM - Re: Fuselage cracking (taildrags) >> 5. 09:17 PM - Re: Cinco de Mayo GN-1 Fly In (taildrags) >> >> >> >> ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ >> >> >> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Fuselage cracking >> From: "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org> >> >> >> Wow, Do you happen to know what kind of glue was used during construction? > There >> must be some structural members broken as well. I am very curious to what >> you find and how you correct the issues. >> >> I am an EAA Tech Counselor and I try to stay educated so I can hopefully keep > someone >> else from having a similar issue. Please keep us posted. >> >> Many thanks, >> >> -------- >> Scott Liefeld >> Flying N11MS since March 1972 >> Steel Tube >> C-85-12 >> Wire Wheels >> Brodhead in 1996 >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455903#455903 >> >> >> ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ >> >> >> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Fuselage cracking >> From: "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com> >> >> >> Wow. Definitely interested in hearing more once you check it out more carefully... >> >> Seems like a negative g induced failure, what ever the root cause. >> >> Also interested in the repair. >> >> Fwiw, I repaired a similar fabric issue like that with Stewarts. They are stc'ed >> for simple overlap patches in a case like that which will preclude recovering >> the entire fuse, at the cost of looks. >> >> If good enough for certificated planes.... And it just felt right, very tenacious >> adhesive. I'm a little leery of poly tak with standing the 350 deg shrink. >> >> Good luck with the repair, let us know more as you figure it all out. Man, I > feel >> a experimental AD coming on! Yikes. >> >> Tools >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455904#455904 >> >> >> ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ >> >> >> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Cinco de Mayo GN-1 Fly In >> From: "TriScout" <apfelcyber(at)yahoo.com> >> >> >> Nice day at KLNC. We had Lunch and then flight..3rd GN-1 fella flew formation > w/us, >> but in his Cherokee. I suppose we could call it a fly in.. >> >> -------- >> KLNC >> A65-8 >> N2308C >> Slick 4330's >> AN Hardware >> Airframe 755TT >> W72CK-42 Sensenich >> Standard Factory GN-1 >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455909#455909 >> >> >> Attachments: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_8140_191.jpg >> http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_8137_223.jpg >> http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_8135_792.jpg >> http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_8133_179.jpg >> >> >> ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ >> >> >> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Fuselage cracking >> From: "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> >> >> >> Tools; another forehead-slapping "doh!" moment for me when you mentioned negative >> Gs. I was wondering to myself what could have pulled the strut attach fitting >> down so hard that the lower longeron split or pulled away from the uprights. >> A good downward push by the wing strut could sure do it!! As you know, one >> of the only (or at least the best known) inflight structural failures of an >> Air Camper resulted from a negative-G maneuver. We can only guess what caused >> this one... flying through a thunderstorm or wind shear? >> >> If finding this crack results in a thorough inspection of the major glue joints >> and structural mountings, it will have been worth it in peace of mind once everything >> is found to be airworthy or is repaired as needed. There will also be >> a springtime next year, if this spring ends up being make-and-mend or even a >> fabric recovering job for Eight-Six-Lima. >> >> -------- >> Oscar Zuniga >> Medford, OR >> Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" >> A75 power >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455915#455915 >> >> >> ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ >> >> >> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cinco de Mayo GN-1 Fly In >> From: "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> >> >> >> I like the look of the silver on the wings and tail surfaces of Four-Sierra-Golf. >> The day looks like it was fun! >> >> -------- >> Oscar Zuniga >> Medford, OR >> Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" >> A75 power >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455916#455916 > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ > > > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cinco de Mayo GN-1 Fly In > From: "TriScout" <apfelcyber(at)yahoo.com> > > > yes, Sierra Golf has an 0-200 and an electrical sys, while mine is an A65 and none. > We seemed to have about the same cruise speed though, but of course when > we took off together, he climbed a bit better. Pic's were all cellphone photos. > I had gopro shots of SG inflight, but no zoom lense..it was a bit shakey. > > -------- > KLNC > A65-8 > N2308C > Slick 4330's > AN Hardware > Airframe 755TT > W72CK-42 Sensenich > Standard Factory GN-1 > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455927#455927 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_8143_207.jpg > > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ > > > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Fuselage cracking > From: "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com> > > > Thought about that, but then decided with the gear in the ground, you have an opposing > force to the momentum of the wing drooping? > > In flight, you wouldn't. > > HATE you've got damage, but a lot to be learned, and very impressed you caught > it! > > Tools > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455930#455930 > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ > > > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Fuselage cracking > From: "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org> > > > Tools, > > I PM'd you rather than hijacking this important thread. > > -------- > Scott Liefeld > Flying N11MS since March 1972 > Steel Tube > C-85-12 > Wire Wheels > Brodhead in 1996 > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455931#455931 > > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ > > > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Fuselage cracking > From: "tkreiner" <tkreiner(at)gmail.com> > > > Andy, > >> From the pics, the strut attachment is for the forward strut. > > Your supposition regarding the gusset plates may be the issue, but I'm curious > about another feature that hasn't been discussed. > > On the plans, there's a steel strap shown on Sheet 3 of that plans called out (for > extra strength only, not for ordinary use). > > Does your ship have these straps? > > -------- > Tom Kreiner > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455934#455934 > > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ > > > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Fuselage cracking > From: "tkreiner" <tkreiner(at)gmail.com> > > > Andy, > > Could the information at this link have had anything to do with undetected damage > to the left landing gear? > > Here's the link: > > http://www.ntsb.gov/_layouts/ntsb.aviation/brief.aspx?ev_id 100126X43531&key=1 > > -------- > Tom Kreiner > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455935#455935 > > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ > > > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Fuselage cracking > From: "aabreu" <andre_abreu_2000(at)yahoo.com> > > > > tkreiner wrote: >> Andy, >> >> From the pics, the strut attachment is for the forward strut. >> >> Your supposition regarding the gusset plates may be the issue, but I'm curious > about another feature that hasn't been discussed. >> >> On the plans, there's a steel strap shown on Sheet 3 of that plans called out > (for extra strength only, not for ordinary use). >> >> Does your ship have these straps? > > > Yes. Forward strut. > Yes. Have the strap. > > Andy Abreeu > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455936#455936 > > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ > > > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Fuselage cracking > From: "aabreu" <andre_abreu_2000(at)yahoo.com> > > > > tkreiner wrote: >> Andy, >> >> Could the information at this link provide insight into any undetected damage > to the left landing gear? >> >> Here's the link: >> >> http://www.ntsb.gov/_layouts/ntsb.aviation/brief.aspx?ev_id 100126X43531&key=1 > > > Thanks for bringing that one up. Sheesh. I remember when that happened. A guy > in our club knocked the back wing off with the PAPI light on 22 at KTDZ. Knocked > out the PAPI light too.. which was way more expensive to fix than the horizontal > stab. Lesson here, land past the PAPI. Didn't damage the landing gear. > > > We do use this airplane for training. So we do get lots of hard landings in. > I tend to not fly this airplane in thunderstorms. Gust loading probably wasn't > a factor. The sharp impulse load that comes along with landing hard is my guess > along with poor workmanship. > > I have some pictures on my phone i'll download later. > Also, we are going to fix this by tomorrow. I'll be sure to take lots of pictures > for everyone. > > Thanks > Andy Abreu > 6186L > EAA 582 > Toledo Buzzards Light Sport Aircraft Club Inc. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455937#455937 > > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ > > > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Fuselage cracking > From: "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com> > > > I also agree with dan's, different thread started, assessment. Seems most likely > if only one wheel hits, opposite to that crack. > > Other side is fine? > > I've cut a lot of joints apart only to find poor gluing technique. Not many failed, > but clearly weren't as strong as they should be. > > In floor tile setting, it's recommended you pull up the occasional tile as you > go along to ensure adequate adhesive and setting technique. Should do that gluing > up wood also. Consistent dimpling should be obvious, nothing not disturbed > or dry. Doesn't take long and gives a great sense of confidence. > > Tools, who's tested ALL his gear to failure! > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455938#455938 > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fuselage cracking
From: "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca>
Date: May 07, 2016
Sure is odd to see plywood split like it does in that video. What's up with that? The whole point of plywood is to provide multi-directional strength and resistance to splitting. Bill C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455950#455950 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fuselage cracking
From: "Catdesigns" <Catdesigns(at)att.net>
Date: May 07, 2016
Any chance we could see some pictures of the inside as well as some more of the outside? thanks -------- Chris Sacramento, CA WestCoastPiet.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455951#455951 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jerry Landley" <airlangley(at)aol.com>
Subject: Favor
Date: May 07, 2016
- This mail is in HTML. Some elements may be ommited in plain text. - I need you to do me a favor reply when you get this. Jerry

 I need you to do me a favor reply when you get this.

Jerry

&nbs p;
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Spruce instead of white ash
From: "Pocono John" <tinmotion(at)yahoo.com>
Date: May 07, 2016
I'm about to join the fuselage halves. The plans show those white ash boards. I can barely find plain ash let alone white ash. Anyone use spruce instead? Any reason why white ash is specified? Are there other options? Additionally, if you have any hints or advice on joining the halves, I'm all ears. Thank you -------- John Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455956#455956 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Spruce instead of white ash
From: Rick <lmforge(at)earthlink.net>
Date: May 07, 2016
John, I would not substitute any other wood for the white ash. White ash is very strong in both tension and compression. That is why it is used in things like baseball bats, oars and tool handles. Since all the loads from the landing gear and the lift struts are transferred to these ash boards I would not use anything else. If you can't find a source locally, white ash is readily available through the Internet. Rick Schreiber NX478RS Valparaiso, IN Sent from my iPad > On May 7, 2016, at 10:02 AM, Pocono John wrote: > > > I'm about to join the fuselage halves. The plans show those white ash boards. I can barely find plain ash let alone white ash. Anyone use spruce instead? Any reason why white ash is specified? Are there other options? > > Additionally, if you have any hints or advice on joining the halves, I'm all ears. > > Thank you > > -------- > John > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455956#455956 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Spruce instead of white ash
From: "Pocono John" <tinmotion(at)yahoo.com>
Date: May 07, 2016
Thank you Rick. You're quick! I deleted my question just a few minutes after posting. I found the answer after digging through the search feature. Thanks again! -------- John Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455958#455958 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Philips" <jack(at)bedfordlandings.com>
Subject: Spruce instead of white ash
Date: May 07, 2016
John, Ash takes some work to find, but if you go to a specialty lumber store you can find it. It IS important to use ash for the landing gear. Ever wonder why most work tools with wooden handles use Ash? Or why baseball bats are made of Ash? It is because of all woods, ash is the best at withstanding and cushioning impact. In his book What Wood is That?, Herbert Edlin says: "...the same properties of strength and resistance to impact ensure the use of ash in exacting construction. It makes reliable ladder-rungs, and is chosen for the felloes of wooden wheels - that is, the curved pieces that make up the rim and take the shocks from the road. Cart shafts for horse-drawn vehicles of all kinds are also made of ash, for they too suffer strain and shock." Those ash boards are there to take the impact and shock of landing. Like most things Mr. Pietenpol did in his design, they are there for a reason. As for specifically finding "White Ash", there are three varieties of Ash that grow in North America, White Ash, Green Ash and Black Ash. Black Ash only grows in the northeastern US and Canada. Green Ash and White Ash grow throughout eastern North America. Most of the ash you find in lumber yards is White Ash. I can't find that there is much difference in strength and mechanical properties between the three species. I had to go to 3 different lumberyards before I found one that carried ash. It was not labeled as to which species it was. I think I paid about $20 for enough to make the two cross pieces as well as the wooden "V" blocks for the landing gear (I have the straight axle gear on mine). Good luck, Jack Phillips NX899JP Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pocono John Sent: Saturday, May 7, 2016 11:02 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Spruce instead of white ash --> I'm about to join the fuselage halves. The plans show those white ash boards. I can barely find plain ash let alone white ash. Anyone use spruce instead? Any reason why white ash is specified? Are there other options? Additionally, if you have any hints or advice on joining the halves, I'm all ears. Thank you -------- John Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455956#455956 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Spruce instead of white ash
From: "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com>
Date: May 07, 2016
I thought the gear legs were specified spruce on the plans. That's what I had when I bought 2rn, and were fine except being poorly fitted. For more strength I refit with southern yellow pine and they're way more than strong enough. Also, I replaced one of the cross members with red oak and it's fine as well. The part is laminated to 1/4 plywood. Properly fitted and maintained fittings, an oak substitution seems to be just fine. Ash is kinda brittle. One over tightened bolt in the original setup broke out a huge piece of my original crossmember. I remember there being some mention of ash being critical for the ford motor mounts though. In the sacred text. I wouldn't use spruce for the crossmembers, just not strong enough. I would think most hardwoods in the strength category of hard maple, oak, etc, should be fine. Proper fit and construction being important. Southern yellow pine is as strong as red oak. Tools Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455961#455961 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Spruce instead of white ash
From: "Pocono John" <tinmotion(at)yahoo.com>
Date: May 07, 2016
I sure appreciate the replies. I've had great difficulty finding it at the local lumber yards. One sells it 1" thick and close to eight feet long by 5" (I think). Anyway, in the meantime, I did find this (may have to buy it, and hope it's acceptable): http://www.rockler.com/white-ash-sold-by-the-piece-3-4-thickness?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=&utm_content=pla&utm_campaign=PL&sid=V9146&gclid=CPHvhYG8yMwCFRNZhgodj28AbA -------- John Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455962#455962 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Spruce instead of white ash
From: "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com>
Date: May 07, 2016
I've been buying stuff from them for over twenty years, can't remember what their name was originally, and no problems. That wood will be sanded four sides likely, certainly planed 4 sides. Should work perfect. Should also be knot free. I'd call and order to make sure, rather than just an online order. Tools Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455963#455963 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Spruce instead of white ash
From: "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com>
Date: May 07, 2016
I've been buying stuff from them for over twenty years, can't remember what their name was originally, and no problems. That wood will be sanded four sides likely, certainly planed 4 sides. Should work perfect. Should also be knot free. I'd call and order to make sure, rather than just an online order. Tools Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455964#455964 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Spruce instead of white ash
From: "Pocono John" <tinmotion(at)yahoo.com>
Date: May 07, 2016
Thank you Tools. -------- John Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455965#455965 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ralph" <ralphhsd(at)itctel.com>
Subject: rudder cables and tape
Date: May 07, 2016
After many years of taking photos and video of Pietenpols under construction as well as flying examples I have a couple questions. What is the pathway of the rudder cables between the rudder horns and the rudder bar? I have the elevator cables under the seat and installed a couple small pulleys rather than just have the cable through wood. Where have people run the rudder cable? I can=99t find anything on the plans or in other readings. Also I read that where cables cross each other they should be taped together. What is used to tape them together? Thanks! Ralph Hurlbert Raymond, SD ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fuselage cracking
From: "aabreu" <andre_abreu_2000(at)yahoo.com>
Date: May 07, 2016
been busy on the repair. New development. Cracks in fuse on both sides. Airplanes is repaired. Modifying the attach brackets. Will put back together and fly it. Here is the picture link https://picasaweb.google.com/107174509582784625093/6281908641079291233 Thanks Andy Abreu Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455970#455970 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Spruce instead of white ash
From: "echobravo4" <eab4(at)comcast.net>
Date: May 08, 2016
John- Woodcraft sells blanks for turning baseball bats that work well -------- Earl Brown I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I intended to be. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455975#455975 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fuselage cracking
From: "womenfly2" <Love2Fly.KAP(at)gmail.com>
Date: May 08, 2016
I looked at your pictures of the aera you are having the issue with. I believe the plans call for "Spruce Wedges" on all sides of the uprights at both gear attachment points ... this Piet does not have them from what I can see in your pictures. WF2 -------- Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=456005#456005 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fuselage cracking
From: "aabreu" <andre_abreu_2000(at)yahoo.com>
Date: May 08, 2016
womenfly2 wrote: > I looked at your pictures of the area you are having the issue with. I believe the plans call for "Spruce Wedges" not just between the "V" but on all sides of the uprights at both gear attachment points ... this Piet does not have them from what I can see in your pictures of your repair work. You need to add them between the outside ply and the new gussets you just installed. This helps to spread the load over a larger area. > > Just a suggestion. Its your Piet, do as you want. > WF2 Thanks for the feedback. I'll discuss it with the others. We still can stick some pieces in there. Not sure if it is really needed with how much we already reinforced that area. Andy Abreu Toledo Ohio. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=456013#456013 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Semih Oksay <semihoksay(at)gmail.com>
Date: May 09, 2016
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 05/08/16
I am in still in the process of building and I preferred to use wedges wherever I thought the stress might go high (even instantaneously). The cracks in question might have been caused by a high traverse load on the left landing gear towards the fuselage other than negative g on left wing.=8B My 2 cents Semih On Mon, May 9, 2016 at 10:02 AM, Pietenpol-List Digest Server < pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com> wrote: > * > > ======================== > Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive > ======================== > > Today's complete Pietenpol-List Digest can also be found in either of the > two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted > in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes > and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version > of the Pietenpol-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor > such as Notepad or with a web browser. > > HTML Version: > > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html& Chapter 16-05-08&Archive=Pietenpol > > Text Version: > > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&C hapter 16-05-08&Archive=Pietenpol > > > ======================== ======================= > EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive > ======================== ======================= > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > Pietenpol-List Digest Archive > --- > Total Messages Posted Sun 05/08/16: 3 > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > > Today's Message Index: > ---------------------- > > 1. 06:23 AM - Re: Spruce instead of white ash (echobravo4) > 2. 05:23 PM - Re: Fuselage cracking (womenfly2) > 3. 08:26 PM - Re: Fuselage cracking (aabreu) > > > ________________________________ Message 1 > _____________________________________ > > > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Spruce instead of white ash > From: "echobravo4" <eab4(at)comcast.net> > > > John- > Woodcraft sells blanks for turning baseball bats that work well > > -------- > Earl Brown > > I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up > where I > intended to be. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455975#455975 > > > ________________________________ Message 2 > _____________________________________ > > > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Fuselage cracking > From: "womenfly2" <Love2Fly.KAP(at)gmail.com> > > > I looked at your pictures of the aera you are having the issue with. I > believe > the plans call for "Spruce Wedges" on all sides of the uprights at both > gear attachment > points ... this Piet does not have them from what I can see in your > pictures. > > WF2 > > -------- > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=456005#456005 > > > ________________________________ Message 3 > _____________________________________ > > > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Fuselage cracking > From: "aabreu" <andre_abreu_2000(at)yahoo.com> > > > womenfly2 wrote: > > I looked at your pictures of the area you are having the issue with. I > believe > the plans call for "Spruce Wedges" not just between the "V" but on all > sides > of the uprights at both gear attachment points ... this Piet does not hav e > them > from what I can see in your pictures of your repair work. You need to add > them > between the outside ply and the new gussets you just installed. This help s > to spread the load over a larger area. > > > > Just a suggestion. Its your Piet, do as you want. > > WF2 > > > Thanks for the feedback. I'll discuss it with the others. We still can > stick some > pieces in there. Not sure if it is really needed with how much we alrea dy > reinforced that area. > > Andy Abreu > Toledo Ohio. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=456013#456013 > > =========== =========== =========== =========== =========== > > -- Semih Oksay ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Textor" <jack(at)textors.com>
Subject: rudder cables and tape
Date: May 09, 2016
Ralph I too would like to see pictures. The rudder cables do not cross. You may be thinking of the cables that cross between the center struts. For the rudder cables I=99m currently making pulleys with cable guards that will go below the seat on each side, in line with the rudder bar connection. They will then go through a fairlead attached to the fuselage diaginal, then exit the fuselage side. Clear as mud? You need to keep in mind how you will route the cables for your tailwheel. Some attach them to the rudder cables and others like Jack Phillips run separate cables to the rudder bar. I=99ve not decided which way I plan to do it. Hope this helps some. Jack From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ralph Sent: Saturday, May 07, 2016 6:51 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: rudder cables and tape After many years of taking photos and video of Pietenpols under construction as well as flying examples I have a couple questions. What is the pathway of the rudder cables between the rudder horns and the rudder bar? I have the elevator cables under the seat and installed a couple small pulleys rather than just have the cable through wood. Where have people run the rudder cable? I can=99t find anything on the plans or in other readings. Also I read that where cables cross each other they should be taped together. What is used to tape them together? Thanks! Ralph Hurlbert Raymond, SD ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Spruce instead of white ash
From: "Pocono John" <tinmotion(at)yahoo.com>
Date: May 09, 2016
Thank! I'd like to order all the white ash at once. I'm stuck on these: 1) if it's labeled just ash and not white ash, is that OK? 2) Sheet 1 seems to indicate two pieces 3/4 X 2 X 24. However, sheet 3 seems to indicate one piece of that dimension and the other piece 1 X 2 X 24 (which tapers to 3/4). 3) here's a shopping list I have so far: -one piece 3/4 X 2 X 24 -one piece either 3/4 X 2 X 24 or 1 X 2 X 24 -one piece 1 X 2 1/4 X 22 1/2 -one piece 2 X 2 1/2 X 22 1/2 -one piece 1 1/4 X 1 1/2 X ? -one piece 2 X 1 X 24 -------- John Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=456020#456020 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com>
Date: May 09, 2016
Subject: Re: rudder cables and tape
Just a reminder, you can use fairleads or pulleys to support the cable or change directions. I used phenolic blocks to stabilize the cables running to the rudder and pedals and protect the wood that it ran near. Fairleads are are softer than the metal cable and somewhat slick. Nylon tubes, plastic blocks, Phenolic pieces....... NOTE 3 degrees is considered the limit for using a fairlead. over 3 degrees you should use a pulley. On Mon, May 9, 2016 at 10:17 AM, Jack Textor wrote: > Ralph I too would like to see pictures. The rudder cables do not cross. > You may be thinking of the cables that cross between the center struts. > For the rudder cables I=99m currently making pulleys with cable gua rds that > will go below the seat on each side, in line with the rudder bar > connection. They will then go through a fairlead attached to the fuselag e > diaginal, then exit the fuselage side. Clear as mud? You need to keep i n > mind how you will route the cables for your tailwheel. Some attach them to > the rudder cables and others like Jack Phillips run separate cables to th e > rudder bar. I=99ve not decided which way I plan to do it. Hope th is helps > some. > > Jack > > > *From:* owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto: > owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Ralph > *Sent:* Saturday, May 07, 2016 6:51 PM > *To:* pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: rudder cables and tape > > > After many years of taking photos and video of Pietenpols under > construction as well as flying examples I have a couple questions. What is > the pathway of the rudder cables between the rudder horns and the rudder > bar? I have the elevator cables under the seat and installed a couple > small pulleys rather than just have the cable through wood. Where have > people run the rudder cable? I can=99t find anything on the plans or in > other readings. Also I read that where cables cross each other they shou ld > be taped together. What is used to tape them together? > > Thanks! > > Ralph Hurlbert > > Raymond, SD > -- Blue Skies, Steve D ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Spruce instead of white ash
From: "echobravo4" <eab4(at)comcast.net>
Date: May 09, 2016
john; as Jack said there isn't much difference in the species so "ash" would be fine. i have a Woodcraft in town so i was able to go and pick out the pieces i wanted. i picked up a couple of the 3"x3"x36" and cut and planed pieces down to what i needed. the front crosspiece i did make 1"x2" and tapered the ends to 3/4" -------- Earl Brown I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I intended to be. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=456027#456027 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: rudder cables and tape
From: "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Date: May 09, 2016
You builders who are working out your rudder and tailwheel cable routing are going to hear an echo here, but "check out Westcoastpiet"!! It's a treasure chest of information! Take twenty minutes and just click on the photo links of any of the Piets listed there, and you will find all you're looking for... and more. Much more. I'll throw in just one image, from my own airplane, of the view from the pilot's seat back into the tailcone: http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/trim02.jpg I know it's fuzzy, and ignore the green bungee that serves as elevator trim, but the point is that the rudder cables turn up after leaving the back of the seat (on NX41CC there are both Formica and nylon fairleads till the cables exit the tail fabric). For the tailwheel cables, there are nylon fairleads along the lower longeron x-members until the cables exit the tail fabric. Bear in mind that you will NEVER be able to reach back there to get to those fairleads, whether or not you have a belly access plate, so do it right the first time (preferably before covering), and you'll never have to worry about it again. -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=456047#456047 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ralph" <ralphhsd(at)itctel.com>
Subject: rudder cables
Date: May 10, 2016
Thanks for the responses to my rudder cable questions. My taping the cross cables question wasn=99t very clear. I was thinking of the drag/antidrag cables inside the wing and the cross cables on the wing struts. I am currently fitting the jury struts brackets on the spars and then hope to start covering the wings. Ralph ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Favor
From: "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org>
Date: May 10, 2016
I see it Jerry -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=456057#456057 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Textor" <jack(at)textors.com>
Subject: Re: rudder cables and tape
Date: May 10, 2016
Thanks Oscar! -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of taildrags Sent: Monday, May 09, 2016 11:58 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: rudder cables and tape --> You builders who are working out your rudder and tailwheel cable routing are going to hear an echo here, but "check out Westcoastpiet"!! It's a treasure chest of information! Take twenty minutes and just click on the photo links of any of the Piets listed there, and you will find all you're looking for... and more. Much more. I'll throw in just one image, from my own airplane, of the view from the pilot's seat back into the tailcone: http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/trim02.jpg I know it's fuzzy, and ignore the green bungee that serves as elevator trim, but the point is that the rudder cables turn up after leaving the back of the seat (on NX41CC there are both Formica and nylon fairleads till the cables exit the tail fabric). For the tailwheel cables, there are nylon fairleads along the lower longeron x-members until the cables exit the tail fabric. Bear in mind that you will NEVER be able to reach back there to get to those fairleads, whether or not you have a belly access plate, so do it right the first time (preferably before covering), and you'll never have to worry about it again. -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=456047#456047 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 10, 2016
Subject: Re: rudder cables and tape and now trim
From: Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com>
Oscar, your trim looks simple. But I don't understand the pulley. How do you adjust the trim? Blue skies, Steve D ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: West Coast Piet Gathering
From: "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org>
Date: May 12, 2016
Hi All, Just 4 more weekends till the West Coast Piet Gathering. I sure hope that those who can come out for the event. I'm looking forward to seeing the Piets and Pietpeople again. Oscar, I sure hope that you can make it this year. Cheers, -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=456148#456148 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: West Coast Piet Gathering
From: "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Date: May 12, 2016
Scott, you know how much I would love to join up with Gary Boothe and Fritz Watson in the Sacramento area and fly down to Frazier Lake with them as a flight of three! We have talked about it. I will tell you right now that I put my wife on a plane to TX at 5 this morning. Her mother was assaulted yesterday in the Walmart parking lot down in our hometown of Laredo, TX by a purse-snatcher. When my 86-year-old mother in law wouldn't let go of the purse, she got pushed to the pavement and dragged by the assailant but by then several onlookers had headed over to assist and the assailant (a female, with a male accomplice in an idling vehicle) split the scene. My mother in law got a very nasty gash to the back of her head, hematoma on her head and hip where she hit the pavement, in and out of consciousness, all of that. Of course no open beds at the hospital so she spent the next 24+ hours in a cubicle in the ER where one cannot get any rest, her doctor was out of town on vacation so nobody wanted to order anything for her without knowing what meds she was on, etc. etc.... and to top it off she can't stand confined spaces so the most important test they wanted to run on her (MRI), she refused. We were concerned about a concussion and bleeding on the brain. All of which is to say that my wife is down in TX for the duration, caring for her mother, and we don't know what level of care she will require. She has no one besides my wife to care for her and she refuses to come up to Oregon because she has lived in her house for 60+ years and plans to die there. So I just don't know what, when, where, or how right now. She seems to be doing a little better today and is now in a private room with some pain meds for her hip, but who knows. My guess is that I'm not going to be able to leave the house, dogs, garden, and all this stuff if my wife is still away when the fly-in happens. -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=456173#456173 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: rudder cables and tape and now trim
From: "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Date: May 12, 2016
Steve; it is not immediately apparent from the photo, but imagine this. One common way of trimming the elevator is to apply 'bias' to one or both of the elevator walking beam arms by using springs. Apply more tension to the spring on the upper arm and the tail goes down. Apply more tension to the spring on the lower arm and the tail goes up. I decided to just apply variable tension to the upper arm because the time when I most notice having to hold pressure on the stick is when I fly the airplane solo right after filling the nose tank. That's the way I do most of my flying, so I have to apply gentle back-stick till the fuel burns off. If I just go out for a spin after topping the tank, I have to hold back-stick most or all of the flight so I decided to apply 'bias' to the upper arm of the walking beam to take care of that. Neither the pulley nor the doubled bungee were really necessary, but I needed more bias than just a single bungee could produce so I doubled it back and used a pulley in the middle to give me a point of connection by which to adjust the trim. You can see the rest of it here: http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/trim.html I reach down and grab the ring, drop the knot on the string out of its notch, and either ease the string back to release tension on the bungee (lower the nose) or pull it out to the next notch to increase tension (raise the nose), and raise the knot into the notch to hold the setting. When I got the airplane, Corky had a bungee wrapped around the control stick and he would slide it up or down the stick to provide more or less aft pull on the stick. I didn't like that setup so I changed it. -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=456174#456174 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: West Coast Piet Gathering
From: "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org>
Date: May 13, 2016
Oscar, So sorry to hear about this. Your number one priority now is your wife and her mother. I completely understand. This world is so full of thugs. It's a shame that we can't even go to a local store without worry. Our thought and prayers are with you and your family. Besr regards, -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=456180#456180 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: rudder cables and tape and now trim
From: "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org>
Date: May 13, 2016
Really clever using the string with knots. So very simple. -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=456181#456181 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Spruce instead of white ash
From: "Pocono John" <tinmotion(at)yahoo.com>
Date: May 13, 2016
Thanksand just to wrap up, I found this site. They have 3" X 3" X 24" (5th from bottom of list)and it seems several of those should work for all locating: http://www.bellforestproducts.com/white-ash/wood-blanks/ -------- John Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=456184#456184 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: MacBook Pro <dboarder(at)internode.on.net>
Subject: Fuselage questions
Date: May 14, 2016
Hi, The fuselage plans (sheet 1) specify gussets of one-eighth by two and a quarter cut to suit, but a check of the plan scale suggests a width closer to 3 inches. Considering the current thread regarding the importance of the gussets and construction techniques, is the specified gusset size sufficient? I recollect reading a post regarding discrepancies between measurements given on sheet 1 and those on sheet 3. My plans show the intersection of the first two diagonals on the bottom longeron as 10=94, but the placement of the front landing gear fitting (sheet 3) is 7=94. Advice please? Regards from =91way Down Under, David Boarder The ox is slow, but the earth is patient. David Boarder dboarder(at)internode.on.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fuselage questions
From: "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Date: May 14, 2016
David; good questions, all. (1) if you take a minute or two with your scale and you check dimensions on Sheet 1 of the drawings, you will find that a very significant number of things do not scale. For that reason, I would NOT scale off of the drawings if a specific dimension is called out. Heck, don't even bother taking several minutes for this exercise... on the side view where the gusset sizes are called out, just check the first two dimensions across the top of the fuselage side to convince yourself... First dimension is given as 7-1/2" but scales as 8"; next dimension is given as 11-5/8" but scales as 10-5/8". Put away the scale and use the dimensions and gusset sizes if they are called out ;o) (2) I am not seeing on Sheet 3 where a 7" dimension is called out for placing the front landing gear fitting, but it is very important that the 2"x1" ash crosspiece in the floor goes across to where those diagonals join the longerons, 10" aft of the face of the first verticals. The two AN3 bolts that hold the landing gear fitting to the underside of the airplane must pass through the ash crosspiece and the holes should not be near the edges of the crosspiece. In any event, you will construct the fuselage frame first and then construct the landing gear legs to fit the actual as-built fuselage, so concern yourself with building the fuselage with all the members in their proper locations and then they will act as a jig for you to fit up the metal parts later. -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=456244#456244 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fuselage questions
From: "Pocono John" <tinmotion(at)yahoo.com>
Date: May 16, 2016
Regarding the "discrepancies between measurements given on sheet 1 and those on sheet 3"..sheet 1 shows both ash board as 3/4 X 2, but sheet 3 shows that one board is actually 1 X 2 and tapers to 3/4. As fas I'm concerned, sheet 3 is the correct one and my ash at the wheel area will be 1X2 and tapered to 3/4. -------- John Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=456277#456277 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: West Coast Piet Gathering
From: "mijab" <MIJAB_AU(at)yahoo.com>
Date: May 18, 2016
Hi, I am new to the forum and am considering a Piet build so I would very much like to attend the upcoming West Coast Piet Gathering. I have searched a bit but have not found the actual published date so could someone please confirm that it will be held on June 4th. Thanks, mijab -------- mijab Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=456353#456353 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: West Coast Piet Gathering
From: "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca>
Date: May 18, 2016
A quick search finds the following: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=16761507&highlight=west+coast+gathering Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=456355#456355 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: West Coast Piet Gathering
From: "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org>
Date: May 19, 2016
Thank you Bill, I was out of town and couldn't respond. Hope to see you guys there. Cheers, -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=456369#456369 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Wood Landing GEAR
From: "TCSHftg13" <tonyp51qa(at)gmail.com>
Date: May 19, 2016
I built the wood landing gear per drawings and dimensions. The axle is 1.500" ID with a 1.750 OD.How or where do I find a 40 spoke wheel to fit these dimensions??? -------- Tony Crawford Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=456371#456371 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Philips" <jack(at)bedfordlandings.com>
Subject: Wood Landing GEAR
Date: May 19, 2016
I designed mine and had the hubs machined, then had Buchanan's make custom spokes and lace up the wheels for me. My axle is only 1.500" Outside diameter though, so those drawings would not work for you. Jack Phillips NX899JP Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of TCSHftg13 Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2016 11:14 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wood Landing GEAR I built the wood landing gear per drawings and dimensions. The axle is 1.500" ID with a 1.750 OD.How or where do I find a 40 spoke wheel to fit these dimensions??? -------- Tony Crawford Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=456371#456371 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Glen Schweizer <glenschweizer(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Wood Landing GEAR
Date: May 19, 2016
How about Harley wheels re machined for bushings instead of bearings. With motorcycle tires,tubes,steel rims,16"diameter. 32#each. How much do yours weigh? Sent from my iPhone > On May 19, 2016, at 8:36 AM, Jack Philips wrote: > > > I designed mine and had the hubs machined, then had Buchanan's make custom > spokes and lace up the wheels for me. My axle is only 1.500" Outside > diameter though, so those drawings would not work for you. > > > > Jack Phillips > NX899JP > Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of TCSHftg13 > Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2016 11:14 AM > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wood Landing GEAR > > > I built the wood landing gear per drawings and dimensions. The axle is > 1.500" ID with a 1.750 OD.How or where do I find a 40 spoke wheel to fit > these dimensions??? > > -------- > Tony Crawford > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=456371#456371 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Philips" <jack(at)bedfordlandings.com>
Subject: Wood Landing GEAR
Date: May 19, 2016
My wheels (complete with tires and tubes) weigh 25 lbs. apiece. And the hubs are 6" wide to help resist side loads on landing. The hubs are designed to accept Cleveland hydraulic brakes. Jack Phillips NX899JP Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Glen Schweizer Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2016 11:58 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wood Landing GEAR --> < glenschweizer(at)yahoo.com> How about Harley wheels re machined for bushings instead of bearings. With motorcycle tires,tubes,steel rims,16"diameter. 32#each. How much do yours weigh? Sent from my iPhone > On May 19, 2016, at 8:36 AM, Jack Philips < jack(at)bedfordlandings.com> wrote: > > --> < jack(at)bedfordlandings.com> > > I designed mine and had the hubs machined, then had Buchanan's make > custom spokes and lace up the wheels for me. My axle is only 1.500" > Outside diameter though, so those drawings would not work for you. > > > > Jack Phillips > NX899JP > Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia > > -----Original Message----- > From: <mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com> owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com > [ mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of > TCSHftg13 > Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2016 11:14 AM > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wood Landing GEAR > > --> < tonyp51qa(at)gmail.com> > > I built the wood landing gear per drawings and dimensions. The axle is > 1.500" ID with a 1.750 OD.How or where do I find a 40 spoke wheel to > fit these dimensions??? > > -------- > Tony Crawford > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > <http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=456371#456371> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=456371#456371 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Wood Landing GEAR
From: "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org>
Date: May 19, 2016
Tony, Go to the Westcoastpiet.com site. Look at Gary Boothe's airplane. He has Harley wheels and they are working good for him. -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=456375#456375 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jack Textor <jack(at)textors.com>
Subject: Re: Wood Landing GEAR
Date: May 19, 2016
Mine sure don't look as nice as JP's, weight without tire is 13 lbs. Jack Textor Sent from my iPad > On May 19, 2016, at 10:14 AM, TCSHftg13 wrote: > > > I built the wood landing gear per drawings and dimensions. The axle is 1.500" ID with a 1.750 OD.How or where do I find a 40 spoke wheel to fit these dimensions??? > > -------- > Tony Crawford > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=456371#456371 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Glen Schweizer <glenschweizer(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Wood Landing GEAR
Date: May 19, 2016
Very pretty! And a lot lighter. I do have a question though: if you had enou gh side load to worry about the wheels being damaged, wouldn't a ground loop follow and ruin your day any way?=F0=9F=98=A7=F0=9F=98=A9 Sent from my iPhone > On May 19, 2016, at 10:38 AM, Jack Philips wrot e: > > My wheels (complete with tires and tubes) weigh 25 lbs. apiece. And the h ubs are 6" wide to help resist side loads on landing. The hubs are designed to accept Cleveland hydraulic brakes. > > > > > > > > Jack Phillips > NX899JP > Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-li st-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Glen Schweizer > Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2016 11:58 AM > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wood Landing GEAR > > --> > > How about Harley wheels re machined for bushings instead of bearings. > With motorcycle tires,tubes,steel rims,16"diameter. 32#each. How much do yours weigh? > > Sent from my iPhone > > > On May 19, 2016, at 8:36 AM, Jack Philips wro te: > > > > --> > > > > I designed mine and had the hubs machined, then had Buchanan's make > > custom spokes and lace up the wheels for me. My axle is only 1.500" > > Outside diameter though, so those drawings would not work for you. > > > > > > > > Jack Phillips > > NX899JP > > Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com > > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of > > TCSHftg13 > > Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2016 11:14 AM > > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wood Landing GEAR > > > > --> > > > > I built the wood landing gear per drawings and dimensions. The axle is > > 1.500" ID with a 1.750 OD.How or where do I find a 40 spoke wheel to > > fit these dimensions??? > > > > -------- > > Tony Crawford > > > > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=456371#456371 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > > http://forums.matronics.com > > http://wiki.matronics.com > > http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Wood Landing GEAR
From: "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com>
Date: May 19, 2016
2rn has Harley wheels. Solid 4130 insert designed to fit rear wheel bearings in a front wheel. I can attest definitively that the wheel is strong enough to not CAUSE a ground loop due to premature failure. I did ruin a wheel because of a ground loop. The ground loop occurred at touch down because of a rudder pedal, front seat landing, issue, on pavement. As aggregious as a ground loop gets. Honestly, I'm glad the wheel failed before the gear legs, much easier to replace. And despite a very comprehensive failure, it stayed intact enough to keep the axle off the ground. I think they are the 2.15 x what ever 40 spoke 1999 and earlier soft tail front wheels. Tools Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=456382#456382 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Wire wheels
From: Douwe Blumberg <douwe(at)douwestudios.com>
Date: May 20, 2016
Here's my $.02 again... I've wether about four sets of guys wire wheels, they were all pretty close, there was no " magic bullet" lightweight There are circumstances where significant sideloads can be introduced without a ground loop necessarily following. Plus, a ground loop without a wheel failing would likely be a much less dramatic/expensive incident 6 or 7" hubs aren't that big a deal to make I've learned there are some areas on the plane that are see regularly and you don't wanna leave anything to chance on them. The whole landing gear is one of these. It's used pretty much every flight, and often abused. I actually enjoyed building my hubs. In actual work, probably took part of a week Douwe ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Philips" <jack(at)bedfordlandings.com>
Subject: Wood Landing GEAR
Date: May 20, 2016
Not necessarily. By the way, I did groundloop mine during a forced landing many years ago, when the axle broke. The wheels were completely undamaged and didn=99t ever require trying afterwards. The axle was anither matter. I replaced it with one that has a .250=9D wall thickness and I had it heat treated to 160 ksi tensile strength. Jack Phillips NX899JP Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Glen Schweizer Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2016 3:01 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wood Landing GEAR Very pretty! And a lot lighter. I do have a question though: if you had enough side load to worry about the wheels being damaged, wouldn't a ground loop follow and ruin your day any way?=F0=9F=98=A7=F0=9F=98=A9 Sent from my iPhone On May 19, 2016, at 10:38 AM, Jack Philips > wrote: My wheels (complete with tires and tubes) weigh 25 lbs. apiece. And the hubs are 6" wide to help resist side loads on landing. The hubs are designed to accept Cleveland hydraulic brakes. Jack Phillips NX899JP Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Glen Schweizer Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2016 11:58 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wood Landing GEAR --> < glenschweizer(at)yahoo.com> How about Harley wheels re machined for bushings instead of bearings. With motorcycle tires,tubes,steel rims,16"diameter. 32#each. How much do yours weigh? Sent from my iPhone > On May 19, 2016, at 8:36 AM, Jack Philips < jack(at)bedfordlandings.com> wrote: > > --> < jack(at)bedfordlandings.com> > > I designed mine and had the hubs machined, then had Buchanan's make > custom spokes and lace up the wheels for me. My axle is only 1.500" > Outside diameter though, so those drawings would not work for you. > > > > Jack Phillips > NX899JP > Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia > > -----Original Message----- > From: <mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com> owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com > [ mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of > TCSHftg13 > Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2016 11:14 AM > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wood Landing GEAR > > --> < tonyp51qa(at)gmail.com> > > I built the wood landing gear per drawings and dimensions. The axle is > 1.500" ID with a 1.750 OD.How or where do I find a 40 spoke wheel to > fit these dimensions??? > > -------- > Tony Crawford > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > <http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=456371#456371> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=456371#456371 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List http://forums.matronics.com http://wiki.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jack Textor <jack(at)textors.com>
Subject: Working with UHMW
Date: May 21, 2016
Hello Piet friends. Would enjoy hearing how others cut and fabricate polyethylene. Is there a glue that works with it. I've used my band saw and knife. Plan to use it for my rudder cable routing. Thanks! Jack Jack Textor Sent from my iPad ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Working with UHMW
From: Rick <lmforge(at)earthlink.net>
Date: May 21, 2016
Jack, I used 1/8 in. Nylon for my fairleads. There is no way to glue polyethylene securely. I may have some pictures of how I did my fairleads. If I find them I will post them. Rick Schreiber Sent from my iPad > On May 21, 2016, at 8:40 AM, Jack Textor wrote: > > > Hello Piet friends. Would enjoy hearing how others cut and fabricate polyethylene. Is there a glue that works with it. I've used my band saw and knife. Plan to use it for my rudder cable routing. > Thanks! > Jack > > Jack Textor > > Sent from my iPad > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 21, 2016
Subject: Re: Working with UHMW
From: John Cox <rv10pro(at)gmail.com>
You can lathe the finished part. Leave a flanged face to adhere to your fairlead bracket. Try this Youtube video for the adhesion. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8UZhWml0Wg. The gun is a common 3M DP100 cartridge unit. John Cox On Sat, May 21, 2016 at 8:18 AM, Rick wrote: > > Jack, > I used 1/8 in. Nylon for my fairleads. There is no way to glue > polyethylene securely. I may have some pictures of how I did my fairleads. > If I find them I will post them. > Rick Schreiber > > Sent from my iPad > > > On May 21, 2016, at 8:40 AM, Jack Textor wrote: > > > > > > Hello Piet friends. Would enjoy hearing how others cut and fabricate > polyethylene. Is there a glue that works with it. I've used my band saw > and knife. Plan to use it for my rudder cable routing. > > Thanks! > > Jack > > > > Jack Textor > > > > Sent from my iPad > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Philips" <jack(at)bedfordlandings.com>
Subject: Working with UHMW
Date: May 21, 2016
Or just buy the nylon fairleads from Aircraft Spruce like Piper used for years. They are made to fit in a short piece of =C2=BE=9D tubing, which can then be welded to a plate that can be attached to your structure. I used them throughout my Pietenpol. Here=99s a picture showing how they are mounted: And here=99s a picture showing a closeup of the mount: Jack Phillips NX899JP Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Cox Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2016 1:13 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Working with UHMW You can lathe the finished part. Leave a flanged face to adhere to your fairlead bracket. Try this Youtube video for the adhesion. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8UZhWml0Wg. The gun is a common 3M DP100 cartridge unit. John Cox On Sat, May 21, 2016 at 8:18 AM, Rick > wrote: > Jack, I used 1/8 in. Nylon for my fairleads. There is no way to glue polyethylene securely. I may have some pictures of how I did my fairleads. If I find them I will post them. Rick Schreiber Sent from my iPad > On May 21, 2016, at 8:40 AM, Jack Textor > wrote: > > > > Hello Piet friends. Would enjoy hearing how others cut and fabricate polyethylene. Is there a glue that works with it. I've used my band saw and knife. Plan to use it for my rudder cable routing. > Thanks! > Jack > > Jack Textor > > Sent from my iPad > > br> enpol-List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List FORUMS - eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com WIKI - errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com b Site - -Matt Dralle, List Admin. rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jack Textor <jack(at)textors.com>
Date: May 21, 2016
Subject: Re: Working with UHMW
Thanks fellows for the pics and thoughtful comments. I just wanted to review the various methods before proceeding. I'm actually using pulleys below the seat, then the fair leads with an AN742-12 clamp. Then UHMW as the cables exit the fuselage. Now I just need to get going on the tail wheel cable routing. Thanks again! Jack Jack Textor Sent from my iPad > On May 21, 2016, at 8:40 AM, Jack Textor wrote: > > > Hello Piet friends. Would enjoy hearing how others cut and fabricate polyethylene. Is there a glue that works with it. I've used my band saw and knife. Plan to use it for my rudder cable routing. > Thanks! > Jack > > Jack Textor > > Sent from my iPad > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Cowl Support
From: "john francis" <Mrkringles(at)msn.com>
Date: May 21, 2016
I see that many attach the forward cowl support to the leading edge of the front stiffener. The plans call for this piece to be attached to the fuselage a few inches ahead of the stiffener as indicated in the drawing. Why is this done? John -------- John Francis Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=456431#456431 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_1479_1_195.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Cowl Support
From: "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Date: May 21, 2016
John; My airplane (and, I suspect, others with a nose tank) does not have that cowl support because the nose tank occupies that space. I have a top cowl piece that goes from the front 'instrument board' to the firewall and that cowl piece has the front cockpit windscreen on top of it. The stiffener goes across the top longerons where the lower ends of the cabane brace struts attach to the longerons. I don't think there is anything magical about where the 'cowl support' attaches but I could be missing something. Builders with a wing tank might have a better answer for you. -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power, 72x36 Culver prop Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=456432#456432 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Working with UHMW
From: "tkreiner" <tkreiner(at)gmail.com>
Date: May 22, 2016
Jack, Last week, I met with my Loctite rep on a completely different matter, and during the conversation, he mentioned the development of a new adhesive that works with polyethylene and polypropylene. Since UHMW is in the same family as the other two polymers, it may work; as soon as I get a product #, I'll post it in this thread. -------- Tom Kreiner Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=456438#456438 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jack <jack(at)textors.com>
Subject: Re: Working with UHMW
Date: May 22, 2016
Thanks Tom Sent from my iPhone > On May 22, 2016, at 7:57 AM, tkreiner wrote: > > > Jack, > > Last week, I met with my Loctite rep on a completely different matter, and during the conversation, he mentioned the development of a new adhesive that works with polyethylene and polypropylene. > > Since UHMW is in the same family as the other two polymers, it may work; as soon as I get a product #, I'll post it in this thread. > > -------- > Tom Kreiner > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=456438#456438 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Cowl Support
From: "john francis" <Mrkringles(at)msn.com>
Date: May 22, 2016
Thanks Oscar, that makes sense to me. John -------- John Francis Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=456445#456445 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Cowl Support
From: "at7000ft" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Date: May 22, 2016
John Since I used a front fuse fuel tank I never added the cowl support. The stiffner made a great shelf for my coils and ignition switcher. https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1Y1jVZb7qxbMkxpV2tZdkdrOHc/view?usp=sharing Rick Holland -------- Rick Holland NX6819Z Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=456448#456448 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jeff Martin <jammerrv8(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Cowl Support
Date: May 22, 2016
I would not recommend mounting ignition coils (if thats what coils your talking about) in the same area as the fuel tank. Spill a little fuel during refueling or a slight leak in a seam and it could get ugly on start up . Jeff Martin > On May 22, 2016, at 1:39 PM, at7000ft wrote: > > > John > > Since I used a front fuse fuel tank I never added the cowl support. The stiffner made a great shelf for my coils and ignition switcher. > > https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1Y1jVZb7qxbMkxpV2tZdkdrOHc/view?usp=sharing > > Rick Holland > > -------- > Rick Holland > NX6819Z > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=456448#456448 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Cowl Support
From: "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Date: May 22, 2016
Seeing the picture of Rick's setup reminded me to mention something to builders who are installing a nose mounted tank. The way mine is arranged, there is little or no room to run control cables or anything bigger than electrical wiring from the cockpit to the engine through the firewall because the space is so tight between the inside plywood and the fuel tank. And even when you squeak a Bowden cable or tach cable or something else through there, when it gets to the firewall there is wood framing that you don't want to make a hole through so you have to offset the cable to clear it and that reduces the smoothness of the cable movement. Not sure how to avoid that except to build a notch or offset into the side of the tank to allow control cables to get past it and through the firewall in a straight line. In this picture- http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/engine/A75final001.jpg , you can see the things that have to get past the fuel tank on the port side of my airplane. Oil temperature line, tach cable, throttle cable, and carb heat cable. The tach cable is the tightest in my setup because once it gets through the firewall it has to jog over to the tach drive connection and I didn't have much slack in the cable to make the offset. I improved the situation by adding a 90 degree fitting to the tach drive and that helped by letting the cable make a gentle 90 degree sweep instead of an S-turn. -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power, 72x36 Culver prop Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=456453#456453 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Working with UHMW
From: "tkreiner" <tkreiner(at)gmail.com>
Date: May 23, 2016
Jack, I just heard from my Loctite rep, and he tells me that the new product is for all Polyolefins, including UHMW... The product is Loctite 3035 (polyolefin bonding 2-part acrylic). If your local guy is like mine, he'll give you samples for evaluation on your application. Let everyone know how this works out for you... -------- Tom Kreiner Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=456491#456491 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Pietenpol homeless camp...
From: "aerocarjake" <flight.jake(at)gmail.com>
Date: May 31, 2016
Hello good Piet-ple, A quick note to say that just because it rains doesn't mean I have enough sense to stop working on our project. Sunday I was working on the fit between the wing center-section and outboard wings with a friend Mike (owner of Black Diamond Pizza - GREAT pizza) and it began to RAIN...! (Yes it does rain in Seattle) Well we covered the project with tarps and kept going - even if it did look like a homeless camp for a few hours.... :-) Normally I can work on the project IN my workshop but to fit the center-section to the outboard wing panels we had to assemble it OUTSIDE. I guess we could have picked a dryer day but Sunday was the day Mike could help me out and the forecast was only for a slight chance of showers - ha! Well all is well and the plane is one day closer to completion.... Hope YOU all had a great Memorial Day Holiday as well. Thanks to all you Veterans - and never forget those who made the ultimate sacrifice...! Jake -------- Jake Schultz - curator, Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=456714#456714 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/imag0621_c_137.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/imag0665_c_145.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jack Textor <jack(at)textors.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol homeless camp...
Date: May 31, 2016
Looking great Jake! I'll bet your wheels and tires come in under a pound! Jack Textor Sent from my iPad > On May 31, 2016, at 5:48 PM, aerocarjake wrote: > > > Hello good Piet-ple, > > A quick note to say that just because it rains doesn't mean I have enough sense to stop working on our project. > > Sunday I was working on the fit between the wing center-section and outboard wings with a friend Mike (owner of Black Diamond Pizza - GREAT pizza) and it began to RAIN...! (Yes it does rain in Seattle) Well we covered the project with tarps and kept going - even if it did look like a homeless camp for a few hours.... :-) > > Normally I can work on the project IN my workshop but to fit the center-section to the outboard wing panels we had to assemble it OUTSIDE. I guess we could have picked a dryer day but Sunday was the day Mike could help me out and the forecast was only for a slight chance of showers - ha! > > Well all is well and the plane is one day closer to completion.... > > Hope YOU all had a great Memorial Day Holiday as well. Thanks to all you Veterans - and never forget those who made the ultimate sacrifice...! > > Jake > > -------- > Jake Schultz - curator, > Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home) > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=456714#456714 > > > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/imag0621_c_137.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/imag0665_c_145.jpg > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ray Krause <raykrause(at)frontiernet.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol homeless camp...
Date: May 31, 2016
Jake, Very nice work. It will be a shame to cover all your artistic work with that cheap old fabric and paint! At this rate, you will be flying before I am. Ray Krause Sent from my iPad > On May 31, 2016, at 3:48 PM, aerocarjake wrote: > > > Hello good Piet-ple, > > A quick note to say that just because it rains doesn't mean I have enough sense to stop working on our project. > > Sunday I was working on the fit between the wing center-section and outboard wings with a friend Mike (owner of Black Diamond Pizza - GREAT pizza) and it began to RAIN...! (Yes it does rain in Seattle) Well we covered the project with tarps and kept going - even if it did look like a homeless camp for a few hours.... :-) > > Normally I can work on the project IN my workshop but to fit the center-section to the outboard wing panels we had to assemble it OUTSIDE. I guess we could have picked a dryer day but Sunday was the day Mike could help me out and the forecast was only for a slight chance of showers - ha! > > Well all is well and the plane is one day closer to completion.... > > Hope YOU all had a great Memorial Day Holiday as well. Thanks to all you Veterans - and never forget those who made the ultimate sacrifice...! > > Jake > > -------- > Jake Schultz - curator, > Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home) > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=456714#456714 > > > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/imag0621_c_137.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/imag0665_c_145.jpg > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Pietenpol homeless camp...
From: "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org>
Date: Jun 01, 2016
It looks good Jake. I really want to see your plane up close. One suggestion, You may need to consider sending me your old mount and that old looking round engine. I'll send you my modern looking flat engine and mount for yours. I think you would be much better off that way. Send me your address so I can ship it to you. :) It really does look great. Don't let Ray fool you. He's nearly done with his. I know because I saw it just a few months ago. Don't worry Ray, Your beautiful wife will find something else for you to do with all your free time once you get the Scout flying. Cheers All, -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=456728#456728 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Pietenpol homeless camp...
From: "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org>
Date: Jun 01, 2016
It looks good Jake. I really want to see your plane up close. One suggestion, You may need to consider sending me your old mount and that old looking round engine. I'll send you my modern looking flat engine and mount for yours. I think you would be much better off that way. Send me your address so I can ship it to you. :) It really does look great. Don't let Ray fool you. He's nearly done with his. I know because I saw it just a few months ago. Don't worry Ray, Your beautiful wife will find something else for you to do with all your free time once you get the Scout flying. Cheers All, -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=456729#456729 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ray Krause <raykrause(at)frontiernet.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol homeless camp...
Date: Jun 01, 2016
Scott, About my wife finding other things for me to do, that is why the SkyScout is not done! Thanks, Ray Sent from my iPad > On Jun 1, 2016, at 6:59 AM, AircamperN11MS wrote: > > > It looks good Jake. I really want to see your plane up close. One suggestion, You may need to consider sending me your old mount and that old looking round engine. I'll send you my modern looking flat engine and mount for yours. I think you would be much better off that way. > > Send me your address so I can ship it to you. :) > > It really does look great. > > Don't let Ray fool you. He's nearly done with his. I know because I saw it just a few months ago. Don't worry Ray, Your beautiful wife will find something else for you to do with all your free time once you get the Scout flying. > > Cheers All, > > -------- > Scott Liefeld > Flying N11MS since March 1972 > Steel Tube > C-85-12 > Wire Wheels > Brodhead in 1996 > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=456729#456729 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Pietenpol homeless camp...
From: "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org>
Date: Jun 01, 2016
Ray, we'll see you Saturday. Jake, You need to come down Saturday. That's all, -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=456744#456744 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Pietenpol homeless camp...
From: "aerocarjake" <flight.jake(at)gmail.com>
Date: Jun 01, 2016
Thx for the positive comments.... I would LOVE to come down to the West Coast Piet Gathering yet I have another commitment this weekend. :-( I am, however, REALLY looking forward to attending when I can FLY there...!!! Jake -------- Jake Schultz - curator, Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=456746#456746 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Pietenpol homeless camp...
From: "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org>
Date: Jun 02, 2016
Jake, Put it on your calendar for next year. First Sat in June. You should have your 40hrs flown off by then. Yes, it's a challenge. FYI, I'll be in Chehalis from 6-21 at noon to 6-24 at 6:30am for business. I go up there about three times a year. -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=456761#456761 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Pietenpol homeless camp...
From: "aerocarjake" <flight.jake(at)gmail.com>
Date: Jun 05, 2016
Thx.... progress one day at a time! Can't hook up on those dates but let me know the next time you get up to Wash state....... -------- Jake Schultz - curator, Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=456876#456876 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: West Coast Piet Gathering
From: "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Jun 05, 2016
Any pictures from the Gathering? Any flying stories? Any new people or airplanes there? Awfully quiet... -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power, 72x36 Culver prop Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=456878#456878 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: vic groah <vicgroah(at)gmail.com>
Date: Jun 05, 2016
Subject: Re: West Coast Piet Gathering
Oscar Four planes a number of new people from Washington, Idaho and four from Oregon, and I heard one from Hawaii. Many rides were given by Scott as well as an interesting demonstration of airmanship. Mike Groah hitched a ride in an RV4. Most of the new people are potential builders. Nice day good food, good weather great people, We missed you. Hope the family is doing better. Vic Groah On Sun, Jun 5, 2016 at 10:56 AM, taildrags wrote: > > Any pictures from the Gathering? Any flying stories? Any new people or > airplanes there? Awfully quiet... > > -------- > Oscar Zuniga > Medford, OR > Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" > A75 power, 72x36 Culver prop > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=456878#456878 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jack Textor <jack(at)textors.com>
Subject: Re: West Coast Piet Gathering
Date: Jun 05, 2016
Oscar a bunch on Facebook Jack Textor Sent from my iPad > On Jun 5, 2016, at 12:56 PM, taildrags wrote: > > > Any pictures from the Gathering? Any flying stories? Any new people or airplanes there? Awfully quiet... > > -------- > Oscar Zuniga > Medford, OR > Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" > A75 power, 72x36 Culver prop > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=456878#456878 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <brian.e.jardine@l-3com.com>
Subject: Re: West Coast Piet Gathering
Date: Jun 06, 2016
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From: "CatDesigns" <CatDesigns(at)att.net>
Subject: Re: West Coast Piet Gathering
Date: Jun 06, 2016
The one builder I remember was in the process of moving to Twin Falls. Chris Sacramento, CA WestcoastPiet.com From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of brian.e.jardine@l-3com.com Sent: Monday, June 6, 2016 1:31 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: West Coast Piet Gathering Were the attendees builders from Idaho or potential builders? Brian Meridian Idaho From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of vic groah Sent: Sunday, June 05, 2016 4:12 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: West Coast Piet Gathering Oscar Four planes a number of new people from Washington, Idaho and four from Oregon, and I heard one from Hawaii. Many rides were given by Scott as well as an interesting demonstration of airmanship. Mike Groah hitched a ride in an RV4. Most of the new people are potential builders. Nice day good food, good weather great people, We missed you. Hope the family is doing better. Vic Groah On Sun, Jun 5, 2016 at 10:56 AM, taildrags > wrote: > Any pictures from the Gathering? Any flying stories? Any new people or airplanes there? Awfully quiet... -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power, 72x36 Culver prop Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=456878#456878 br> enpol-List" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List FORUMS - _blank" rel="noreferrer">http://forums.matronics.com WIKI - lank" rel="noreferrer">http://wiki.matronics.com b Site - -Matt Dralle, List Admin. target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "CatDesigns" <CatDesigns(at)att.net>
Subject: Re: West Coast Piet Gathering
Date: Jun 06, 2016
Oscar For years now we have sent you pictures and told you all about the fun we have in Frasier Lake. Evidently we have done good of a job because you seem to be satisfied with stories and pictures. Well this year we are keeping it a secret so you will have to attend next year and experience it for yourself. I will tell you we have a grass runway (rare in California), food and a few Pietenpols to look at....... what more do you want........... Chris Sacramento, CA WestcoastPiet.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of taildrags Sent: Sunday, June 5, 2016 10:57 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: West Coast Piet Gathering --> Any pictures from the Gathering? Any flying stories? Any new people or airplanes there? Awfully quiet... -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power, 72x36 Culver prop Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=456878#456878 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Glenn Houston <glennhouston(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Sky Scout For Sale N4089P $8000.
Date: Jun 11, 2016
Gentlemen, N4089P is for sale. I can no longer justify owning ANY aircraft due to hea lth issues. This is a complete, airworthy aircraft based at KGWW in Goldsboro, NC. It was autographed on the vertical stab by Steve Worf(sp?) as a =9CGood Airplane=9D in 2000. It was designed for a 185lb pilot. If it wont f it in your pockets, you cant take it with you in this aircraft. The airworthiness certificate was issued in October, 1994 and has 200+ hour s TTAF, as far as I can tell. I was told by the original builder that the F ranklin 4AC199-E36 (90 hp) engine in it has the same number of hours SMOH. The logs only go back to 2004 and reflect these numbers. Everything prior to that were =9Clost=9D. Compressions were 1) 74/80 2) 70/80 3) 74/80 4) 75/80 during last condition inspection in June, 2015. It has a starter but no charging system. The b attery will crank it quite well for 10 to 15 starts before it needs recharg ing. There is a charging port on the lower cowl and I just plug a trickle charger into it. It has Cub gear. The wings are Clark Y, I was told. They are not Pietenpol design. Differential heel brakes. Steerable tailwheel. It comes with Bendix King AV8OR GPS, Sportys SP400 handheld. The airframe i s wired to accept the SP400 and has standard headset jacks installed. I ha ve a Marvel Schebler MA-3SPA, 10-4894, core and a King KY 197 with tray tha t goes, too. It comes with 3 Corvair engine cores, S/N ending in RD, RG and RH. The en gines have been torn down and are in boxes. The heads all look good. The b earings looked good so I don=99t think they have been abused TOO badl y. I have many other pictures but not sure how to post them within the matroni cs rules of engagement. Questions? Glenn Houston Sent from Mail for Windows 10 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Sky Scout For Sale N4089P $8000.
From: "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Jun 12, 2016
Well, it doesn't really look like a Sky Scout... looks more like a single-place Air Camper... but whatever the case, it's a terrific deal! Clear across the country for me though. -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power, 72x36 Culver prop Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=457061#457061 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "JERRY" <jerry(at)SKYCLASSIC.NET>
Subject: Sky Scout For Sale N4089P $8000.
Date: Jun 13, 2016
Very tempting From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Glenn Houston Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2016 2:43 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Sky Scout For Sale N4089P $8000. Gentlemen, N4089P is for sale. I can no longer justify owning ANY aircraft due to health issues. This is a complete, airworthy aircraft based at KGWW in Goldsboro, NC. It was autographed on the vertical stab by Steve Worf(sp?) as a =9CGood Airplane=9D in 2000. It was designed for a 185lb pilot. If it wont fit in your pockets, you cant take it with you in this aircraft. The airworthiness certificate was issued in October, 1994 and has 200+ hours TTAF, as far as I can tell. I was told by the original builder that the Franklin 4AC199-E36 (90 hp) engine in it has the same number of hours SMOH. The logs only go back to 2004 and reflect these numbers. Everything prior to that were =9Clost=9D. Compressions were 1) 74/80 2) 70/80 3) 74/80 4) 75/80 during last condition inspection in June, 2015. It has a starter but no charging system. The battery will crank it quite well for 10 to 15 starts before it needs recharging. There is a charging port on the lower cowl and I just plug a trickle charger into it. It has Cub gear. The wings are Clark Y, I was told. They are not Pietenpol design. Differential heel brakes. Steerable tailwheel. It comes with Bendix King AV8OR GPS, Sportys SP400 handheld. The airframe is wired to accept the SP400 and has standard headset jacks installed. I have a Marvel Schebler MA-3SPA, 10-4894, core and a King KY 197 with tray that goes, too. It comes with 3 Corvair engine cores, S/N ending in RD, RG and RH. The engines have been torn down and are in boxes. The heads all look good. The bearings looked good so I don=99t think they have been abused TOO badly. I have many other pictures but not sure how to post them within the matronics rules of engagement. Questions? Glenn Houston Sent from Mail for Windows 10 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 13, 2016
From: Doug Bowman <airbowman48(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Sky Scout For Sale N4089P $8000.
I live in Raleigh and am interested in what you have for sale. =C2-How do I get in touch with you? Doug Bowman On Monday, June 13, 2016 8:00 AM, JERRY wrote: