Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-pn
November 13, 2016 - January 18, 2017
And no buddy, though I like =93soft squishy landings=94 I don=92t always
accomplish them. After I installed my angle of attack indicator this
summer, I was experimenting with very low speed landings and dropped her
in
from what felt like six feet or so (was probably more like three, but
still!) which felt awful.
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | [PLEASE READ] Why I Have A Fund Raiser... |
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Email List Admin.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wood Gear Bungee |
There are metal "zip ties".
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wood Gear Bungee |
U3RhaW5sZXNzIGNhYmxlIHRpZXMgYW5kIGJlIHB1cmNoYXNlZCBhdDoNCmh0dHA6Ly93d3cuY2Fi
bGV0aWVzYW5kbW9yZS5jb20vc3RhaW5sZXNzLXN0ZWVsLWNhYmxlLXRpZXMucGhwDQoNCg0KQnJp
YW4NCk1lcmlkaWFuLCBJRA0KDQpGcm9tOiBvd25lci1waWV0ZW5wb2wtbGlzdC1zZXJ2ZXJAbWF0
cm9uaWNzLmNvbSBbbWFpbHRvOm93bmVyLXBpZXRlbnBvbC1saXN0LXNlcnZlckBtYXRyb25pY3Mu
Y29tXSBPbiBCZWhhbGYgT2YgU3RldmVuIERvcnRjaA0KU2VudDogTW9uZGF5LCBOb3ZlbWJlciAx
NCwgMjAxNiA4OjE5IEFNDQpUbzogcGlldGVucG9sLWxpc3RAbWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbQ0KU3ViamVj
dDogUmU6IFBpZXRlbnBvbC1MaXN0OiBSZTogV29vZCBHZWFyIEJ1bmdlZQ0KDQoNClRoZXJlIGFy
ZSBtZXRhbCAiemlwIHRpZXMiLg0K
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Continental A-65 |
I recently purchased a Piet project and it came with this complete Continen
tal A-65. I am building a Corvair for my Piet so I don't need this engine.
I know nothing about this engine, no logs, or hours but it is complete with
accessories such as mags, carb (Stromberg NA-S3A1), intake spider, and exh
aust stacks. It would make a good core engine for somebody wanting build an
A-65. If you are interested you can contact me off line. I can crate and s
hip to lower 48 states.
Brian
Meridian, Idaho
385-315-0127
Wings.wheels29(at)yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Continental A-65 |
blockquote, div.yahoo_quoted { margin-left: 0 !important; border-left:1px
#715FFA solid !important; padding-left:1ex !important; background-color:whi
te !important; } Tapershaft or flange crank? =C2-How much are you asking
Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
On Monday, November 14, 2016, 5:50 PM, brian.e.jardine@l-3com.com jardine@l-3com.com> wrote:
I recently purchased a Piet project and it came with this complete Continen
tal A-65. I am building a Corvair for my Piet so I don't need this engine.
I know nothing about this engine, no logs, or hours but it is complete with
accessories such as mags, carb (Stromberg NA-S3A1), intake spider, and exh
aust stacks. It would make a good core engine for somebody wanting build an
A-65. If you are interested you can contact me off line. I can crate and s
hip to lower 48 states.
Brian
Meridian, Idaho
385-315-0127
Wings.wheels29(at)yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
Dear Listers,
A quick reminder that November is the annual Matronics List Fund Raiser. The Lists
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Livermore CA 94550
Thank you in advance!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List and Forum Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | N2RN pietenpol aircamper for sale |
| From: | "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com> |
Short wood fuse. Cabanes an inch or two longer. Cutout for rear cockpit access.
Dual controls, no instruments in front. Wood gear, Harley wheels. Cont a65, mid
time, great runner. Slick mags with about 350 hrs. Metal prop. Single piece
wing. Will come with fresh annual. Regularly flown. Latex paint. Matco tailwheel.
Carlson aluminum wing struts.
Airframe has about 350 hours. Full logs. I bought it from the builder, the late
Dick Navratil.
Search nx2rn on you tube, that's my son soloing it.
Will deliver about anywhere, love cross countries in this plane! Will deliver to
brodhead, you can fly it home. I have hangar space arranged in brodhead if you
need some time.
$10,000. Call and chat if interested, 423 580 1383. Selling to take advantage of
a great deal offered to me in another plane. If that deal falls through, I'll
take this off the market.
Offered here first, will post on barnstormers soon.
Tools
PS... Yep, same ad! Found another 120!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=462642#462642
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | All props are hot |
http://www.flightsafetyaustralia.com/2014/03/properly-clear-of-the-prop/
--
Blue Skies,
Steve D
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Barry Davis" <bed(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | N2RN pietenpol aircamper for sale |
Hey!
I was in Oshkosh for a Board meeting last week. Stayed at Best Western
Riverside right across the street from the Fire Station. Kept looking to see
if you were home when I had a free moment...........No Luck, See you next
time.
Barry Davis
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of tools
Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2016 9:49 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: N2RN pietenpol aircamper for sale
Short wood fuse. Cabanes an inch or two longer. Cutout for rear cockpit
access. Dual controls, no instruments in front. Wood gear, Harley wheels.
Cont a65, mid time, great runner. Slick mags with about 350 hrs. Metal prop.
Single piece wing. Will come with fresh annual. Regularly flown. Latex
paint. Matco tailwheel. Carlson aluminum wing struts.
Airframe has about 350 hours. Full logs. I bought it from the builder, the
late Dick Navratil.
Search nx2rn on you tube, that's my son soloing it.
Will deliver about anywhere, love cross countries in this plane! Will
deliver to brodhead, you can fly it home. I have hangar space arranged in
brodhead if you need some time.
$10,000. Call and chat if interested, 423 580 1383. Selling to take
advantage of a great deal offered to me in another plane. If that deal falls
through, I'll take this off the market.
Offered here first, will post on barnstormers soon.
Tools
PS... Yep, same ad! Found another 120!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=462642#462642
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Claude Corbetti <isablcorky(at)aol.com> |
Has anyone built and flown the 612 riblett wing. What are the pros and cons compared
with the Piet wing. I would appreciate some discussion on this topic.
Thanks
Corky
Sent from my iPad
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jack Textor <jack(at)textors.com> |
Corky take a look at the archives, lots of testing was done a couple years ago.
If I recall there were few performance differences. But don't trust my memory.
Jack Textor
Sent from my iPad
> On Nov 16, 2016, at 1:24 PM, Claude Corbetti wrote:
>
>
> Has anyone built and flown the 612 riblett wing. What are the pros and cons compared
with the Piet wing. I would appreciate some discussion on this topic.
> Thanks
> Corky
>
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Claude Corbetti <isablcorky(at)aol.com> |
I would If I knew hour to operate this thing. Have heard o.f the archives but have
no clue in which direction to go. I'm kinDa dumb..
Corky
Sent from my iPad
> On Nov 16, 2016, at 3:11 PM, Jack Textor wrote:
>
>
> Corky take a look at the archives, lots of testing was done a couple years ago.
If I recall there were few performance differences. But don't trust my memory.
>
> Jack Textor
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On Nov 16, 2016, at 1:24 PM, Claude Corbetti wrote:
>>
>>
>> Has anyone built and flown the 612 riblett wing. What are the pros and cons
compared with the Piet wing. I would appreciate some discussion on this topic.
>> Thanks
>> Corky
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jack Textor <jack(at)textors.com> |
Corky use your internet browser and go here http://www.matronics.com/searchi
ng/search.html
Select Pietenpol at the top.
In the search string box type in riblett 612 and hit search.
It will bring up any past message with riblett 612 in the body or subject ar
eas.
Try different search words and experiment, you will find lots of info
Good luck!
Jack
Jack Textor
Sent from my iPad
> On Nov 16, 2016, at 4:11 PM, Claude Corbetti wrote:
>
>
> I would If I knew hour to operate this thing. Have heard o.f the archives b
ut have no clue in which direction to go. I'm kinDa dumb..
> Corky
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On Nov 16, 2016, at 3:11 PM, Jack Textor wrote:
>>
>>
>> Corky take a look at the archives, lots of testing was done a couple year
s ago. If I recall there were few performance differences. But don't trust m
y memory.
>>
>> Jack Textor
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>>> On Nov 16, 2016, at 1:24 PM, Claude Corbetti wrote:
>>>
m>
>>>
>>> Has anyone built and flown the 612 riblett wing. What are the pros and c
ons compared with the Piet wing. I would appreciate some discussion on this t
opic.
>>> Thanks
>>> Corky
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com> |
I sometimes shortcut the search by googling,"Pietenpol, matronics and
riblett." or whatever I am looking for. It usually gives me more than I
need.
Blue Skies,
Steve D
On Wed, Nov 16, 2016 at 4:59 PM, Jack Textor wrote:
> Corky use your internet browser and go here http://www.matronics.com/
> searching/search.html
> Select Pietenpol at the top.
> In the search string box type in riblett 612 and hit search.
> It will bring up any past message with riblett 612 in the body or subject
> areas.
> Try different search words and experiment, you will find lots of info
> Good luck!
> Jack
>
> Jack Textor
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Nov 16, 2016, at 4:11 PM, Claude Corbetti wrote:
>
>
> I would If I knew hour to operate this thing. Have heard o.f the archives
> but have no clue in which direction to go. I'm kinDa dumb..
> Corky
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Nov 16, 2016, at 3:11 PM, Jack Textor wrote:
>
>
> Corky take a look at the archives, lots of testing was done a couple years
> ago. If I recall there were few performance differences. But don't trust my
> memory.
>
>
> Jack Textor
>
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>
> On Nov 16, 2016, at 1:24 PM, Claude Corbetti wrote:
>
>
> Has anyone built and flown the 612 riblett wing. What are the pros and
> cons compared with the Piet wing. I would appreciate some discussion on
> this topic.
>
> Thanks
>
> Corky
>
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>
> ====================================================nbsp; (And
> Get Some AWEnbsp; the Contribution link below to find out more about
> www.homebuilthelp.co= * Race Consulting http://wp; -Matt
> Dralle, List Admin.
> ========================== - The Pietenpol-List
> Ematronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.
> matronics.com/Navigator?P====================================================;
-
> MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
> http://www.matronics.com/=============================================
>
>
--
Blue Skies,
Steve D
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "wheelharp" <wheelharp(at)gmail.com> |
Corky,
Good to see you back! I don't know if you remember me...but you kept me up to speed
on Chuck Gantzer's 04 tour, and he wound up staying at my house in Mo.
I believe P.F. Beck of Barnwell S.C. and a friend built identical Piets, other
than the airfoil. They did a traditional Piet airfoil, and I THINK a riblett airfoil
on Corvair powered ships. They tested a number of different aspects under
as close to identical conditions as possible. The results were nearly identical
from what I recall.
I will try to find more info.
Jon
--------
Jon Jones
Ironton, MO
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=462653#462653
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "wheelharp" <wheelharp(at)gmail.com> |
Corky,
Good to see you back! I don't know if you remember me...but you kept me up to speed
on Chuck Gantzer's 04 tour, and he wound up staying at my house in Mo.
I believe P.F. Beck of Barnwell S.C. and a friend built identical Piets, other
than the airfoil. They did a traditional Piet airfoil, and I THINK a riblett airfoil
on Corvair powered ships. They tested a number of different aspects under
as close to identical conditions as possible. The results were nearly identical
from what I recall.
I will try to find more info.
Jon
--------
Jon Jones
Ironton, MO
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=462654#462654
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "wheelharp" <wheelharp(at)gmail.com> |
Corky,
Found it I think. Here's a link.
http://pietenpols.org/id18.html
--------
Jon Jones
Ironton, MO
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=462656#462656
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "wheelharp" <wheelharp(at)gmail.com> |
Corky,
Found it I think. Here's a link.
http://pietenpols.org/id18.html
--------
Jon Jones
Ironton, MO
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=462657#462657
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "wheelharp" <wheelharp(at)gmail.com> |
Corky,
Found it I think. Here's a link.
http://pietenpols.org/id18.html
--------
Jon Jones
Ironton, MO
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=462658#462658
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "wheelharp" <wheelharp(at)gmail.com> |
Corky,
Found it I think. Here's a link.
http://pietenpols.org/id18.html
--------
Jon Jones
Ironton, MO
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=462659#462659
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "wheelharp" <wheelharp(at)gmail.com> |
My phone apparently is having issues...sorry about multiple posts.
--------
Jon Jones
Ironton, MO
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=462660#462660
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: N2RN pietenpol aircamper for sale |
| From: | "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com> |
Unfortunately I was overseas... Keep an eye open though, next time!
Tools
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=462662#462662
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | What's Your Contribution Used For? |
Dear Listers,
You might have wondered at some point, "What's my Contribution used for?" Here
are just a few examples of what your direct List support enables... It provides
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Livermore, CA 94550
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Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
Just to add to this discussion, a bit about the Riblett airfoil nomenclature.
I'm no expert on the subject, but my understanding is that the "612" is Riblett's
GA30-612 (and modifications thereof). By Riblett's terminology, the "30"
means that the maximum thickness occurs at 30% of the wing chord or 18" aft of
the wing leading edge for the 60" chord Piet wing. The "-12" indicates that
the wing depth (thickness) is 12% of the chord, or 7.2". The stock FC-10 airfoil
is about an inch less deep than the 612 and it also has undercamber, which
the Riblett does not. Other considerations aside, including performance, a deeper
spar can carry the same loads with lighter construction than a shorter one...
if properly engineered. A thicker wing section can provide more room for
larger fuel tanks or a baggage compartment, if that's a consideration.
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power, 72x36 Culver prop
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=462742#462742
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Timothy Willis <timwillis01(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Stuff to add to epoxy |
=8B
Guys,
I have an application where I need more viscosity in my West systems
epoxy. I have the little micro-beads to use when all I need is a filler,
but I know that is NOT the right stuff when I need glue strength.
What is the right additive? Where can I get it? I could not find such a
thing on ASS, but then it helps to know its name.
Thanks,
Tim in central TX
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Woods <jawesma(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Stuff to add to epoxy |
Tim,
The West Systems filler I've use is 406 Colloidal Silica.
http://www.westsystem.com/ss/406-colloidal-silica/
403 Microfibres is also suitable.
http://www.westsystem.com/ss/403-microfibers/
JohnW
On 19 November 2016 at 13:37, Timothy Willis wrote:
> =8B
> Guys,
>
> I have an application where I need more viscosity in my West systems
> epoxy. I have the little micro-beads to use when all I need is a filler,
> but I know that is NOT the right stuff when I need glue strength.
>
> What is the right additive? Where can I get it? I could not find such
a
> thing on ASS, but then it helps to know its name.
>
> Thanks,
> Tim in central TX
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Stuff to add to epoxy |
Slightly related, I put just a little sand in my West System 205 when I did
my floorboards to give me a little grip when getting in and out.
I enjoyed using west systems epoxy. It went on just as advertised.
Blue Skies,
Steve D
On Sat, Nov 19, 2016 at 5:18 AM, John Woods wrote:
> Tim,
>
> The West Systems filler I've use is 406 Colloidal Silica.
> http://www.westsystem.com/ss/406-colloidal-silica/
> 403 Microfibres is also suitable. http://www.westsystem.com/ss/403-
> microfibers/
>
> JohnW
>
> On 19 November 2016 at 13:37, Timothy Willis
> wrote:
>
>> =8B
>> Guys,
>>
>> I have an application where I need more viscosity in my West systems
>> epoxy. I have the little micro-beads to use when all I need is a filler
,
>> but I know that is NOT the right stuff when I need glue strength.
>>
>> What is the right additive? Where can I get it? I could not find such
>> a thing on ASS, but then it helps to know its name.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Tim in central TX
>>
>
>
--
Blue Skies,
Steve D
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Stuff to add to epoxy |
Their website.
http://www.westsystem.com/ss/the-105-system/
On Sat, Nov 19, 2016 at 8:10 AM, Steven Dortch
wrote:
> Slightly related, I put just a little sand in my West System 205 when I
> did my floorboards to give me a little grip when getting in and out.
>
> I enjoyed using west systems epoxy. It went on just as advertised.
>
> Blue Skies,
> Steve D
>
> On Sat, Nov 19, 2016 at 5:18 AM, John Woods wrote:
>
>> Tim,
>>
>> The West Systems filler I've use is 406 Colloidal Silica.
>> http://www.westsystem.com/ss/406-colloidal-silica/
>> 403 Microfibres is also suitable. http://www.westsyste
>> m.com/ss/403-microfibers/
>>
>> JohnW
>>
>> On 19 November 2016 at 13:37, Timothy Willis
>> wrote:
>>
>>> =8B
>>> Guys,
>>>
>>> I have an application where I need more viscosity in my West systems
>>> epoxy. I have the little micro-beads to use when all I need is a fille
r,
>>> but I know that is NOT the right stuff when I need glue strength.
>>>
>>> What is the right additive? Where can I get it? I could not find suc
h
>>> a thing on ASS, but then it helps to know its name.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Tim in central TX
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Blue Skies,
> Steve D
>
--
Blue Skies,
Steve D
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Stuff to add to epoxy |
Early morning and only a half cup of coffee in me. If I remember correctly
for more viscosity you can put in less hardener. BUT I may be wrong.
They do have 405 high density filler.
I have had good luck finding their products as Marine stores. Used a lot on
boats.
Blue Skies,
Steve D
On Sat, Nov 19, 2016 at 8:12 AM, Steven Dortch
wrote:
> Their website.
>
> http://www.westsystem.com/ss/the-105-system/
>
>
> On Sat, Nov 19, 2016 at 8:10 AM, Steven Dortch
> wrote:
>
>> Slightly related, I put just a little sand in my West System 205 when I
>> did my floorboards to give me a little grip when getting in and out.
>>
>> I enjoyed using west systems epoxy. It went on just as advertised.
>>
>> Blue Skies,
>> Steve D
>>
>> On Sat, Nov 19, 2016 at 5:18 AM, John Woods wrote:
>>
>>> Tim,
>>>
>>> The West Systems filler I've use is 406 Colloidal Silica.
>>> http://www.westsystem.com/ss/406-colloidal-silica/
>>> 403 Microfibres is also suitable. http://www.westsyste
>>> m.com/ss/403-microfibers/
>>>
>>> JohnW
>>>
>>> On 19 November 2016 at 13:37, Timothy Willis
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> =8B
>>>> Guys,
>>>>
>>>> I have an application where I need more viscosity in my West systems
>>>> epoxy. I have the little micro-beads to use when all I need is a fill
er,
>>>> but I know that is NOT the right stuff when I need glue strength.
>>>>
>>>> What is the right additive? Where can I get it? I could not find
>>>> such a thing on ASS, but then it helps to know its name.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Tim in central TX
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Blue Skies,
>> Steve D
>>
>
>
> --
> Blue Skies,
> Steve D
>
--
Blue Skies,
Steve D
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Stuff to add to epoxy |
| From: | "Mark Baxter" <m.baxter(at)comcast.net> |
The stuff you want is 404 high density filler. It is specifically for bonding
and can be added in amounts needed to get desired viscosity.
Mark Baxter
GN-1
Corvallis, Oregon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=462751#462751
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert Rice <ricekrgr(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Stuff to add to epoxy |
blockquote, div.yahoo_quoted { margin-left: 0 !important; border-left:1px
#715FFA solid !important; padding-left:1ex !important; background-color:whi
te !important; } Do not change the resin to hardner ratio for West System
Epoxy. They sell metered pumps to help get it right.
Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
On Saturday, November 19, 2016, 9:15 AM, Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch@gma
il.com> wrote:
Early morning and only a half cup of coffee in me. If I remember correctly
for more viscosity you can put in less hardener. BUT I may be wrong.
They do have 405 high density filler.
I have had good luck finding their products as Marine stores. Used a lot on
boats.
Blue Skies,
Steve D
On Sat, Nov 19, 2016 at 8:12 AM, Steven Dortch
wrote:
Their website.
http://www.westsystem.com/ss/ the-105-system/
On Sat, Nov 19, 2016 at 8:10 AM, Steven Dortch
wrote:
Slightly related, I put just a little sand in my West System 205 when I did
my floorboards to give me a little grip when getting in and out.
I enjoyed using west systems epoxy. It went on just as advertised.
Blue Skies,
Steve D
On Sat, Nov 19, 2016 at 5:18 AM, John Woods wrote:
Tim,
The West Systems filler I've use is 406 Colloidal Silica. =C2-http://www.
westsystem.com/ss/ 406-colloidal-silica/403 Microfibres is also suitable.
=C2-http://www.westsyste m.com/ss/403-microfibers/
JohnW
On 19 November 2016 at 13:37, Timothy Willis wrote:
=8BGuys,
I have an application where I need more viscosity in my West systems epoxy.
=C2- I have the little micro-beads to use when all I need is a filler, bu
t I know that is NOT the right stuff when I need glue strength.
What is the right additive?=C2- Where can I get it?=C2- =C2-I could n
ot find such a thing on ASS, but then it helps to know its name.
Thanks,Tim in central TX
--
Blue Skies,
Steve D
--
Blue Skies,
Steve D
--
Blue Skies,
Steve D
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Please Make a Contribution to Support Your Lists... |
Dear Listers,
Just a reminder that November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Please make a Contribution
today to support the continued operation and upgrade of these great
List services!! Pick up a really nice free gift with your qualifying Contribution
too!
The Contribution Site is fast and easy:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
or by dropping a personal check in the mail to:
Matt Dralle / Matronics
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gordon Bowen <gordon.bowen.training(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 7 Msgs - 11/19/16 |
Couple rules for Epoxy: if you want thickness and strength add something
like short strand fibers, ie. cab-o-sil, cotton fiber, kevlar fiber, etc.
if you want bulk but not added "glue strength" you add glass microballons,
lastly, no matter what additive you ALWAYS maintain the mix ratio between
the the resin and the hardener. The mix ratio does not change with the
amount of additive fillers.
Gordon
On Sun, Nov 20, 2016 at 1:03 AM, Pietenpol-List Digest Server <
pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com> wrote:
> *
>
> =================================================
> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
> =================================================
>
> Today's complete Pietenpol-List Digest can also be found in either of the
> two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted
> in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
> and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
> of the Pietenpol-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
> such as Notepad or with a web browser.
>
> HTML Version:
>
> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style
> 82701&View=html&Chapter 16-11-19&Archive=Pietenpol
>
> Text Version:
>
> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style
> 82701&View=txt&Chapter 16-11-19&Archive=Pietenpol
>
>
> ===============================================
> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
> ===============================================
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> Pietenpol-List Digest Archive
> ---
> Total Messages Posted Sat 11/19/16: 7
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Today's Message Index:
> ----------------------
>
> 0. 10:34 AM - Please Make a Contribution to Support Your Lists...
> (Matt Dralle)
> 1. 03:19 AM - Re: Stuff to add to epoxy (John Woods)
> 2. 06:10 AM - Re: Stuff to add to epoxy (Steven Dortch)
> 3. 06:13 AM - Re: Stuff to add to epoxy (Steven Dortch)
> 4. 06:16 AM - Re: Stuff to add to epoxy (Steven Dortch)
> 5. 06:55 AM - Re: Stuff to add to epoxy (Mark Baxter)
> 6. 07:00 AM - Re: Stuff to add to epoxy (Robert Rice)
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 0
> _____________________________________
>
>
> From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Please Make a Contribution to Support Your
> Lists...
>
>
> Dear Listers,
>
> Just a reminder that November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Please make
> a Contribution
> today to support the continued operation and upgrade of these great
> List services!! Pick up a really nice free gift with your qualifying
> Contribution
> too!
>
> The Contribution Site is fast and easy:
>
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
> or by dropping a personal check in the mail to:
>
> Matt Dralle / Matronics
> 581 Jeannie Way
> Livermore CA 94550
>
> Thank you!
>
> Matt Dralle
> Matronics Email List Administrator
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 1
> _____________________________________
>
>
> From: John Woods <jawesma(at)gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Stuff to add to epoxy
>
> Tim,
>
> The West Systems filler I've use is 406 Colloidal Silica.
> http://www.westsystem.com/ss/406-colloidal-silica/
> 403 Microfibres is also suitable.
> http://www.westsystem.com/ss/403-microfibers/
>
> JohnW
>
> On 19 November 2016 at 13:37, Timothy Willis
> wrote:
>
> > =8B
> > Guys,
> >
> > I have an application where I need more viscosity in my West systems
> > epoxy. I have the little micro-beads to use when all I need is a filler,
> > but I know that is NOT the right stuff when I need glue strength.
> >
> > What is the right additive? Where can I get it? I could not find such
> a
> > thing on ASS, but then it helps to know its name.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Tim in central TX
> >
>
> ________________________________ Message 2
> _____________________________________
>
>
> From: Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Stuff to add to epoxy
>
> Slightly related, I put just a little sand in my West System 205 when I did
> my floorboards to give me a little grip when getting in and out.
>
> I enjoyed using west systems epoxy. It went on just as advertised.
>
> Blue Skies,
> Steve D
>
> On Sat, Nov 19, 2016 at 5:18 AM, John Woods wrote:
>
> > Tim,
> >
> > The West Systems filler I've use is 406 Colloidal Silica.
> > http://www.westsystem.com/ss/406-colloidal-silica/
> > 403 Microfibres is also suitable. http://www.westsystem.com/ss/403-
> > microfibers/
> >
> > JohnW
> >
> > On 19 November 2016 at 13:37, Timothy Willis
> > wrote:
> >
> >> =8B
> >> Guys,
> >>
> >> I have an application where I need more viscosity in my West systems
> >> epoxy. I have the little micro-beads to use when all I need is a filler
> ,
> >> but I know that is NOT the right stuff when I need glue strength.
> >>
> >> What is the right additive? Where can I get it? I could not find such
> >> a thing on ASS, but then it helps to know its name.
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >> Tim in central TX
> >>
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Blue Skies,
> Steve D
>
> ________________________________ Message 3
> _____________________________________
>
>
> From: Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Stuff to add to epoxy
>
> Their website.
>
> http://www.westsystem.com/ss/the-105-system/
>
>
> On Sat, Nov 19, 2016 at 8:10 AM, Steven Dortch
> wrote:
>
> > Slightly related, I put just a little sand in my West System 205 when I
> > did my floorboards to give me a little grip when getting in and out.
> >
> > I enjoyed using west systems epoxy. It went on just as advertised.
> >
> > Blue Skies,
> > Steve D
> >
> > On Sat, Nov 19, 2016 at 5:18 AM, John Woods wrote:
> >
> >> Tim,
> >>
> >> The West Systems filler I've use is 406 Colloidal Silica.
> >> http://www.westsystem.com/ss/406-colloidal-silica/
> >> 403 Microfibres is also suitable. http://www.westsyste
> >> m.com/ss/403-microfibers/
> >>
> >> JohnW
> >>
> >> On 19 November 2016 at 13:37, Timothy Willis
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> =8B
> >>> Guys,
> >>>
> >>> I have an application where I need more viscosity in my West systems
> >>> epoxy. I have the little micro-beads to use when all I need is a fille
> r,
> >>> but I know that is NOT the right stuff when I need glue strength.
> >>>
> >>> What is the right additive? Where can I get it? I could not find suc
> h
> >>> a thing on ASS, but then it helps to know its name.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks,
> >>> Tim in central TX
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > Blue Skies,
> > Steve D
> >
>
>
> --
> Blue Skies,
> Steve D
>
> ________________________________ Message 4
> _____________________________________
>
>
> From: Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Stuff to add to epoxy
>
> Early morning and only a half cup of coffee in me. If I remember correctly
> for more viscosity you can put in less hardener. BUT I may be wrong.
>
> They do have 405 high density filler.
>
> I have had good luck finding their products as Marine stores. Used a lot on
> boats.
>
> Blue Skies,
> Steve D
>
> On Sat, Nov 19, 2016 at 8:12 AM, Steven Dortch
> wrote:
>
> > Their website.
> >
> > http://www.westsystem.com/ss/the-105-system/
> >
> >
> > On Sat, Nov 19, 2016 at 8:10 AM, Steven Dortch <
> steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com
> >
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Slightly related, I put just a little sand in my West System 205 when I
> >> did my floorboards to give me a little grip when getting in and out.
> >>
> >> I enjoyed using west systems epoxy. It went on just as advertised.
> >>
> >> Blue Skies,
> >> Steve D
> >>
> >> On Sat, Nov 19, 2016 at 5:18 AM, John Woods wrote:
> >>
> >>> Tim,
> >>>
> >>> The West Systems filler I've use is 406 Colloidal Silica.
> >>> http://www.westsystem.com/ss/406-colloidal-silica/
> >>> 403 Microfibres is also suitable. http://www.westsyste
> >>> m.com/ss/403-microfibers/
> >>>
> >>> JohnW
> >>>
> >>> On 19 November 2016 at 13:37, Timothy Willis
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> =8B
> >>>> Guys,
> >>>>
> >>>> I have an application where I need more viscosity in my West systems
> >>>> epoxy. I have the little micro-beads to use when all I need is a fill
> er,
> >>>> but I know that is NOT the right stuff when I need glue strength.
> >>>>
> >>>> What is the right additive? Where can I get it? I could not find
> >>>> such a thing on ASS, but then it helps to know its name.
> >>>>
> >>>> Thanks,
> >>>> Tim in central TX
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Blue Skies,
> >> Steve D
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > Blue Skies,
> > Steve D
> >
>
>
> --
> Blue Skies,
> Steve D
>
> ________________________________ Message 5
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Stuff to add to epoxy
> From: "Mark Baxter" <m.baxter(at)comcast.net>
>
>
> The stuff you want is 404 high density filler. It is specifically for
> bonding
> and can be added in amounts needed to get desired viscosity.
>
> Mark Baxter
> GN-1
> Corvallis, Oregon
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=462751#462751
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 6
> _____________________________________
>
>
> From: Robert Rice <ricekrgr(at)yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Stuff to add to epoxy
>
> blockquote, div.yahoo_quoted { margin-left: 0 !important; border-left:1px
> #715FFA solid !important; padding-left:1ex !important; background-color:whi
> te !important; } Do not change the resin to hardner ratio for West System
> Epoxy. They sell metered pumps to help get it right.
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>
> On Saturday, November 19, 2016, 9:15 AM, Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch@gma
> il.com> wrote:
>
> Early morning and only a half cup of coffee in me. If I remember correctly
> for more viscosity you can put in less hardener. BUT I may be wrong.
>
> They do have 405 high density filler.
>
> I have had good luck finding their products as Marine stores. Used a lot on
> boats.
>
> Blue Skies,
> Steve D
>
> On Sat, Nov 19, 2016 at 8:12 AM, Steven Dortch
> wrote:
>
> Their website.
>
> http://www.westsystem.com/ss/ the-105-system/
>
>
> On Sat, Nov 19, 2016 at 8:10 AM, Steven Dortch
> wrote:
>
> Slightly related, I put just a little sand in my West System 205 when I did
> my floorboards to give me a little grip when getting in and out.
>
> I enjoyed using west systems epoxy. It went on just as advertised.
>
> Blue Skies,
> Steve D
>
> On Sat, Nov 19, 2016 at 5:18 AM, John Woods wrote:
>
> Tim,
> The West Systems filler I've use is 406 Colloidal Silica. =C2-http://www.
> westsystem.com/ss/ 406-colloidal-silica/403 Microfibres is also suitable.
> =C2-http://www.westsyste m.com/ss/403-microfibers/
> JohnW
> On 19 November 2016 at 13:37, Timothy Willis
> wrote:
>
> =8BGuys,
> I have an application where I need more viscosity in my West systems epoxy.
> =C2- I have the little micro-beads to use when all I need is a filler, bu
> t I know that is NOT the right stuff when I need glue strength.
> What is the right additive?=C2- Where can I get it?=C2- =C2-I could n
> ot find such a thing on ASS, but then it helps to know its name.
> Thanks,Tim in central TX
>
>
> --
> Blue Skies,
> Steve D
>
>
> --
> Blue Skies,
> Steve D
>
>
> --
> Blue Skies,
> Steve D
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Stuff to add to epoxy |
| From: | "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
Tim; most have provided the answer to your question already, but if I may elaborate
just a bit? You can add microballoons to the epoxy to make a lighter, more
sandable filler material ('micro'). You can add flocked cotton fiber to the
epoxy to make it thicker and more structural ('flox'). You can add fumed silica
like Cab-O-Sil to the epoxy to thicken it or make it a reinforced filler.
My understanding is that all of those materials are generic and can be used with
any of the epoxies, although you should always follow the epoxy manufacturer's
instructions when adding anything to a product if it's used in a structural
application.
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power, 72x36 Culver prop
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=462850#462850
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Turtle Deck Help! |
| From: | "john francis" <Mrkringles(at)msn.com> |
Ive been working on this myself for too long. I have the most forward support
(head rest) done and am going to do the most rear one. I tried working my way
back one at a time and it just wasnt coming out. This is an old post I am attaching
to here. Is there any newer ones with current pictures?
Thanks,
John
--------
John Francis
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=462851#462851
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Timothy Willis <timwillis01(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Thanks for good suggestions-- West epoxy thickener |
=8B
Thanks for the replies on tis site and direct email. I will follow up with
the vendors tomorrow (Mon.).
Tim in central TX
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Coming Soon - The List of Contributors - Please Make A |
Contribution Today!
Each year at the end of the List Fund Raiser, I post a message acknowledging everyone
that so generously made a Contribution to support the Lists. Its my way
of publicly thanking everyone that took a minute to show their appreciation
for the Lists.
Please take a moment and assure that your name is on that List of Contributors
(LOC)! As a number of members have pointed out over the years, the List seems
at least as valuable a building / entertainment tool as your typical magazine
subscription!
Assure that your name is on this year's LOC! Show others that you appreciate the
Lists. Making a Contribution to support the Lists is fast and easy using your
Credit card or Paypal on the Secure Web Site:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
or by dropping a personal check in the mail to:
Matt Dralle / Matronics
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
I would like to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution thus
far in this year's List Fund Raiser! Remember that its YOUR support that keeps
these Lists going and improving! Don't forget to include a little comment about
how the Lists have helped you!
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Turtle Deck Help! |
| From: | "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
John;
I've never built the turtledeck myself, but I've built similar things and I would
have to agree with what Chris Tracy and others wrote... the best shot you'll
have at it is to build the front and rear supports and then stretch some strings
or thin slats between those stations to develop the lines of it. If you
try to work your way aft, it'll probably end up being wavy or bumpy. I'll try
to attach two pictures of how the turtledeck went together on 41CC, but you'll
find that everybody has a different notion of how it should look. On 41CC,
the stringers come together at the tail in a flat shape so as to fair into the
horizontal stabilizer. Some make theirs rounded instead. You'll also notice
that the stringers on 41CC have to twist on their way aft, so there are little
'holders' on the intermediate sections to hold them in their proper positions.
The foam and glass guys would ask, why bother with all that fuss? Stick some slabs
of blue or pink foam on the aft fuselage, get a 4' long piece of 2x4 and
glue some 40 grit floor sanding paper onto it, and sand the foam to shape in about
15 minutes. Shop vac all the sanding dust off. Glass over it, remove the
hardened turtledeck, dig out the foam, done ;o)
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power, 72x36 Culver prop
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=462945#462945
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/tdeck2_186.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/tdeck1_456.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Turtle Deck Help! |
| From: | "bdewenter" <anonymouse(at)woh.rr.com> |
John,
The turtle deck was my first bug challenge on the airframe. Turned out well and
fairly easy.
I used a CAD program form emachines.com to draw the front support. I used 9 slats
(1/4" x 1/2"). I don't know how to describe this exactly, but in my experience,
the two middle supports are "basically copies of the front support".
Once I had my front support made, I just "transferred" the layout to progressively
smaller "shorter" support panels.
I got the rough dimensions for the two middle supports from measuring the top of
the stringer to the fuselage "cross member"
You know where I live right?
Bob
--------
Bob 'Early Builder' Dewenter
Dayton OH
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=462950#462950
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Thanks for good suggestions-- West epoxy thickener |
| From: | "bdewenter" <anonymouse(at)woh.rr.com> |
As others have said, use 406 to increase thickness and STRENGTH.
Use microballons for a strong, yet somewhat sandable "filler". Just try to do
your sanding before the epoxy cures fully and develops its full strength
--------
Bob 'Early Builder' Dewenter
Dayton OH
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=462951#462951
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Barry Davis" <bed(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 7 Msgs - 11/19/16 |
Gordon has the correct answer.
Barry
NX973BP
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gordon
Bowen
Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2016 10:18 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 7 Msgs - 11/19/16
Couple rules for Epoxy: if you want thickness and strength add
something like short strand fibers, ie. cab-o-sil, cotton fiber, kevlar
fiber, etc. if you want bulk but not added "glue strength" you add
glass microballons, lastly, no matter what additive you ALWAYS maintain
the mix ratio between the the resin and the hardener. The mix ratio
does not change with the amount of additive fillers.
Gordon
On Sun, Nov 20, 2016 at 1:03 AM, Pietenpol-List Digest Server
wrote:
*
Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
Today's complete Pietenpol-List Digest can also be found in either of
the
two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest
formatted
in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
of the Pietenpol-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text
editor
such as Notepad or with a web browser.
HTML Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701
<http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html
&Chapter 16-11-19&Archive=Pietenpol>
&View=html&Chapter 16-11-19&Archive=Pietenpol
Text Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701
<http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&
Chapter 16-11-19&Archive=Pietenpol>
&View=txt&Chapter 16-11-19&Archive=Pietenpol
======================
EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
======================
----------------------------------------------------------
Pietenpol-List Digest Archive
---
Total Messages Posted Sat 11/19/16: 7
----------------------------------------------------------
Today's Message Index:
----------------------
0. 10:34 AM - Please Make a Contribution to Support Your Lists...
(Matt Dralle)
1. 03:19 AM - Re: Stuff to add to epoxy (John Woods)
2. 06:10 AM - Re: Stuff to add to epoxy (Steven Dortch)
3. 06:13 AM - Re: Stuff to add to epoxy (Steven Dortch)
4. 06:16 AM - Re: Stuff to add to epoxy (Steven Dortch)
5. 06:55 AM - Re: Stuff to add to epoxy (Mark Baxter)
6. 07:00 AM - Re: Stuff to add to epoxy (Robert Rice)
________________________________ Message 0
_____________________________________
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Please Make a Contribution to Support Your
Lists...
Dear Listers,
Just a reminder that November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Please
make a Contribution
today to support the continued operation and upgrade of these great
List services!! Pick up a really nice free gift with your qualifying
Contribution
too!
The Contribution Site is fast and easy:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
or by dropping a personal check in the mail to:
Matt Dralle / Matronics
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________ Message 1
_____________________________________
From: John Woods <jawesma(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Stuff to add to epoxy
Tim,
The West Systems filler I've use is 406 Colloidal Silica.
http://www.westsystem.com/ss/406-colloidal-silica/
403 Microfibres is also suitable.
http://www.westsystem.com/ss/403-microfibers/
JohnW
On 19 November 2016 at 13:37, Timothy Willis
wrote:
> =8B
> Guys,
>
> I have an application where I need more viscosity in my West systems
> epoxy. I have the little micro-beads to use when all I need is a
filler,
> but I know that is NOT the right stuff when I need glue strength.
>
> What is the right additive? Where can I get it? I could not find
such
a
> thing on ASS, but then it helps to know its name.
>
> Thanks,
> Tim in central TX
>
________________________________ Message 2
_____________________________________
From: Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Stuff to add to epoxy
Slightly related, I put just a little sand in my West System 205 when I
did
my floorboards to give me a little grip when getting in and out.
I enjoyed using west systems epoxy. It went on just as advertised.
Blue Skies,
Steve D
On Sat, Nov 19, 2016 at 5:18 AM, John Woods wrote:
> Tim,
>
> The West Systems filler I've use is 406 Colloidal Silica.
> http://www.westsystem.com/ss/406-colloidal-silica/
> 403 Microfibres is also suitable. http://www.westsystem.com/ss/403-
> microfibers/
>
> JohnW
>
> On 19 November 2016 at 13:37, Timothy Willis
> wrote:
>
>> =8B
>> Guys,
>>
>> I have an application where I need more viscosity in my West systems
>> epoxy. I have the little micro-beads to use when all I need is a
filler
,
>> but I know that is NOT the right stuff when I need glue strength.
>>
>> What is the right additive? Where can I get it? I could not find
such
>> a thing on ASS, but then it helps to know its name.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Tim in central TX
>>
>
>
--
Blue Skies,
Steve D
________________________________ Message 3
_____________________________________
From: Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Stuff to add to epoxy
Their website.
http://www.westsystem.com/ss/the-105-system/
On Sat, Nov 19, 2016 at 8:10 AM, Steven Dortch
wrote:
> Slightly related, I put just a little sand in my West System 205 when
I
> did my floorboards to give me a little grip when getting in and out.
>
> I enjoyed using west systems epoxy. It went on just as advertised.
>
> Blue Skies,
> Steve D
>
> On Sat, Nov 19, 2016 at 5:18 AM, John Woods wrote:
>
>> Tim,
>>
>> The West Systems filler I've use is 406 Colloidal Silica.
>> http://www.westsystem.com/ss/406-colloidal-silica/
>> 403 Microfibres is also suitable. http://www.westsyste
>> m.com/ss/403-microfibers/
>>
>> JohnW
>>
>> On 19 November 2016 at 13:37, Timothy Willis
>> wrote:
>>
>>> =8B
>>> Guys,
>>>
>>> I have an application where I need more viscosity in my West systems
>>> epoxy. I have the little micro-beads to use when all I need is a
fille
r,
>>> but I know that is NOT the right stuff when I need glue strength.
>>>
>>> What is the right additive? Where can I get it? I could not find
suc
h
>>> a thing on ASS, but then it helps to know its name.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Tim in central TX
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Blue Skies,
> Steve D
>
--
Blue Skies,
Steve D
________________________________ Message 4
_____________________________________
From: Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Stuff to add to epoxy
Early morning and only a half cup of coffee in me. If I remember
correctly
for more viscosity you can put in less hardener. BUT I may be wrong.
They do have 405 high density filler.
I have had good luck finding their products as Marine stores. Used a lot
on
boats.
Blue Skies,
Steve D
On Sat, Nov 19, 2016 at 8:12 AM, Steven Dortch
wrote:
> Their website.
>
> http://www.westsystem.com/ss/the-105-system/
>
>
> On Sat, Nov 19, 2016 at 8:10 AM, Steven Dortch
> wrote:
>
>> Slightly related, I put just a little sand in my West System 205 when
I
>> did my floorboards to give me a little grip when getting in and out.
>>
>> I enjoyed using west systems epoxy. It went on just as advertised.
>>
>> Blue Skies,
>> Steve D
>>
>> On Sat, Nov 19, 2016 at 5:18 AM, John Woods
wrote:
>>
>>> Tim,
>>>
>>> The West Systems filler I've use is 406 Colloidal Silica.
>>> http://www.westsystem.com/ss/406-colloidal-silica/
>>> 403 Microfibres is also suitable. http://www.westsyste
>>> m.com/ss/403-microfibers/
>>>
>>> JohnW
>>>
>>> On 19 November 2016 at 13:37, Timothy Willis
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> =8B
>>>> Guys,
>>>>
>>>> I have an application where I need more viscosity in my West
systems
>>>> epoxy. I have the little micro-beads to use when all I need is a
fill
er,
>>>> but I know that is NOT the right stuff when I need glue strength.
>>>>
>>>> What is the right additive? Where can I get it? I could not find
>>>> such a thing on ASS, but then it helps to know its name.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Tim in central TX
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Blue Skies,
>> Steve D
>>
>
>
> --
> Blue Skies,
> Steve D
>
--
Blue Skies,
Steve D
________________________________ Message 5
_____________________________________
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Stuff to add to epoxy
From: "Mark Baxter" <m.baxter(at)comcast.net>
The stuff you want is 404 high density filler. It is specifically for
bonding
and can be added in amounts needed to get desired viscosity.
Mark Baxter
GN-1
Corvallis, Oregon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=462751#462751
________________________________ Message 6
_____________________________________
From: Robert Rice <ricekrgr(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Stuff to add to epoxy
blockquote, div.yahoo_quoted { margin-left: 0 !important;
border-left:1px
#715FFA solid !important; padding-left:1ex !important;
background-color:whi
te !important; } Do not change the resin to hardner ratio for West
System
Epoxy. They sell metered pumps to help get it right.
Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
On Saturday, November 19, 2016, 9:15 AM, Steven Dortch
<steven.d.dortch@gma
il.com> wrote:
Early morning and only a half cup of coffee in me. If I remember
correctly
for more viscosity you can put in less hardener. BUT I may be wrong.
They do have 405 high density filler.
I have had good luck finding their products as Marine stores. Used a lot
on
boats.
Blue Skies,
Steve D
On Sat, Nov 19, 2016 at 8:12 AM, Steven Dortch
wrote:
Their website.
http://www.westsystem.com/ss/ the-105-system/
On Sat, Nov 19, 2016 at 8:10 AM, Steven Dortch
wrote:
Slightly related, I put just a little sand in my West System 205 when I
did
my floorboards to give me a little grip when getting in and out.
I enjoyed using west systems epoxy. It went on just as advertised.
Blue Skies,
Steve D
On Sat, Nov 19, 2016 at 5:18 AM, John Woods wrote:
Tim,
The West Systems filler I've use is 406 Colloidal Silica.
=C2-http://www.
westsystem.com/ss/ 406-colloidal-silica/403 Microfibres is also
suitable.
=C2-http://www.westsyste m.com/ss/403-microfibers/
JohnW
On 19 November 2016 at 13:37, Timothy Willis
wrote:
=8BGuys,
I have an application where I need more viscosity in my West systems
epoxy.
=C2- I have the little micro-beads to use when all I need is a filler,
bu
t I know that is NOT the right stuff when I need glue strength.
What is the right additive?=C2- Where can I get it?=C2- =C2-I
could n
ot find such a thing on ASS, but then it helps to know its name.
Thanks,Tim in central TX
--
Blue Skies,
Steve D
--
Blue Skies,
Steve D
--
Blue Skies,
Steve D
br> fts!)
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________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Turtle Deck Help! |
| From: | "john francis" <Mrkringles(at)msn.com> |
Thanks for the suggestions. I have not abandoned my first attempt at this yet
with scrap pieces of plywood as supports. This is starting to look pretty good
to me now. Does anyone see any problems with this?
--------
John Francis
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=462965#462965
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_1980_173.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_1979_252.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Turtle Deck Help! |
| From: | Richard Schreiber <lmforge(at)earthlink.net> |
John,
The bottom line is do what looks good to you. On the other hand, when
planes with turtle decks are judged at Oshkosh, the judges look down the
stringers to make sure the are perfectly straight. They are looking for
stringers that have no bows in any direction. It can be done, but is
more difficult to lay out and perfect. See the attached photos.
Rick Schreiber
NX478RS
Valparaiso IN
On 11/22/2016 2:22 PM, john francis wrote:
>
> Thanks for the suggestions. I have not abandoned my first attempt at this yet
with scrap pieces of plywood as supports. This is starting to look pretty good
to me now. Does anyone see any problems with this?
>
> --------
> John Francis
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=462965#462965
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_1980_173.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_1979_252.jpg
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Turtle Deck Help! |
| From: | "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
John;
It does seem to be taking on some pleasing lines! And I realize that you're just
getting underway with it, but if you'll look at the image "tdeck1" that I sent,
that piece of plywood over the stringers just aft of the rear seat back is
very important. I rest the palm of my hand right there every time I get out
of the cockpit, and if the plywood wasn't there, I would be pushing on the fabric
and not much else. You don't have to scallop the aft edge of the plywood,
but I think the scalloping helps the fabric lay down smoother and not form a
visible ridge where the plywood ends.
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power, 72x36 Culver prop
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=462969#462969
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Turtle Deck Help! |
| From: | "john francis" <Mrkringles(at)msn.com> |
I haven't glued anything in yet. I was going to add the piece of plywood behind
the headrest last. Tomorrow I will start over from the front. I am not familiar
with cadcam programs so will do it the old fashion way...with strings.
--------
John Francis
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=462970#462970
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Texaspiet" <Richard.green(at)dnvgl.com> |
Rejoining the list today. I bought a steel tube Pietenpol project and was looking
for anyone else building with a steel tube fuselage. Thanks!
Rich
--------
Rich Green, CFI
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=462980#462980
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Steel Fuselage |
| From: | "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
Rich; I don't know who might be building one in TX, but I'm pretty sure Terry Hand
is building a steel tube fuselage in GA, so is Jake Schultz up here in WA
state, and of course Scott Liefeld out here in California has been flying his
since 1972 and is very helpful with building tips.
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power, 72x36 Culver prop
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=462982#462982
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Clif Dawson" <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Turtle Deck Help! |
I agree. I've already been using that plydeck to heave myself in and out and
sat on it
many times also. It's a thin ply over a balsa base.
Because the sides are curved from the seat to the tail I evened out the
stringer spacing at
the center former, half way between seat back and tail. If they are dead
straight then when
covered that area next to the fuselage side will look wrongly different from
the rest. Like
the turtledeck was thoughtlessly thrown together.
Clif
http://www.flamingsteel.com/the-secret-behind-the-latte-effect.php
>
> John;
>
> It does seem to be taking on some pleasing lines! And I realize that
> you're just getting underway with it, but if you'll look at the image
> "tdeck1" that I sent, that piece of plywood over the stringers just aft of
> the rear seat back is very important. I rest the palm of my hand right
> there every time I get out of the cockpit, and if the plywood wasn't
> there, I would be pushing on the fabric and not much else. You don't have
> to scallop the aft edge of the plywood, but I think the scalloping helps
> the fabric lay down smoother and not form a visible ridge where the
> plywood ends.
>
> --------
> Oscar Zuniga
> Medford, OR
> Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
> A75 power, 72x36 Culver prop
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "M W Stanley" <mmrally(at)nifty.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Turtle Deck Help! |
Hi all,
I like the idea of the thin ply over balsa scallops.
Good strength with low weight and it is very pleasing to the eye to boot.
If I get that far, I will do the same with my project.
Thanks
Mark Stanley
Japan
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Clif Dawson" <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca>
Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2016 5:44 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Turtle Deck Help!
> I agree. I've already been using that plydeck to heave myself in and out
> and
> sat on it
> many times also. It's a thin ply over a balsa base.
>
> Because the sides are curved from the seat to the tail I evened out the
> stringer spacing at
> the center former, half way between seat back and tail. If they are dead
> straight then when
> covered that area next to the fuselage side will look wrongly different
> from
> the rest. Like
> the turtledeck was thoughtlessly thrown together.
>
> Clif
> http://www.flamingsteel.com/the-secret-behind-the-latte-effect.php
>
>>
>> John;
>>
>> It does seem to be taking on some pleasing lines! And I realize that
>> you're just getting underway with it, but if you'll look at the image
>> "tdeck1" that I sent, that piece of plywood over the stringers just aft
>> of
>> the rear seat back is very important. I rest the palm of my hand right
>> there every time I get out of the cockpit, and if the plywood wasn't
>> there, I would be pushing on the fabric and not much else. You don't
>> have
>> to scallop the aft edge of the plywood, but I think the scalloping helps
>> the fabric lay down smoother and not form a visible ridge where the
>> plywood ends.
>>
>> --------
>> Oscar Zuniga
>> Medford, OR
>> Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
>> A75 power, 72x36 Culver prop
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Stuff to add to epoxy |
| From: | "planes&bikes" <yb21701(at)juno.com> |
West Systems is produced by Gougeon Brothers, Inc., P.O. Box 908, Bay City, MI
48707, and you can call their Tech Rep at 866-937-8797 or 989-684-7286. I've found
them very helpful, and I'd use their advice before trying others' "worked
for me" stories. You can also subscribe (free) to their quarterly EPOXY WORKS
magazine which is a good source of ideas. At Airworthiness Insp stage - taxi
testing now.
Don Youngblood
Easley, SC
--------
Planes&Bikes
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=462990#462990
Attachments:
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http://forums.matronics.com//files/dscn8596_640x480_678.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Horizontal Stab center section build up |
| From: | "hall698" <webdatasoft(at)hotmail.com> |
Per the plans, it shows that the recessed portion of the LE as well as the center
beam be applied with 3/16 ply. My question is can this be pieces of 1/8 ply
laminated and sized or should I buy a piece of 3/16 ply for this? Has anyone
used anything other than ply? Spruce? also is the TE to be applied with 3/16 as
well or just the 1/8? Thanks in advance for any help on this.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=462992#462992
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Steel Fuselage |
| From: | "wheelharp" <wheelharp(at)gmail.com> |
What part of TX are you in? One of the Corvair guys is building steel tube fuse
in north/central Louisiana.
--------
Jon Jones
Ironton, MO
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=462994#462994
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Steel Fuselage |
| From: | "Texaspiet" <Richard.green(at)dnvgl.com> |
Thanks all for the contacts! Looking forward to learning more from the site. Happy
Thanksgiving! Rich
--------
Rich Green, CFI
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=462995#462995
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Value of the List... |
If you look forward to checking your List email everyday (and a lot of you have
written to say that you do!), then you're probably getting at least $20 or $30
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think of it, you do... :-)
Won't you please take a minute to make your Contribution today and support these
Lists?
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or, drop a personal check in the mail to:
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Matt Dralle
Email List Admin.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Steel Fuselage |
| From: | "Texaspiet" <Richard.green(at)dnvgl.com> |
I live in the Katy TX area just West if Houston about 40 miles or so. I am most
interested in learning how to attach the fittings best to the tubing. As far
as I know there are no plans for the tube fuselage other than the fuselage itself.
Best regards, Rich
--------
Rich Green, CFI
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=463073#463073
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Glen Schweizer <glenschweizer(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Steel Fuselage |
Assuming that it's 4130 either TIG or gas weld NO MIG. With the typical MIG set
up, Chrome Molly steel can become very brittle at the junction of the weld. "Women
fly too" please chime in you're the expert on this stuff 4130 can be welded
with MIG, but it does take specialized equipment and some highly developed
skills 4130 is a different animal
> On Nov 23, 2016, at 8:26 AM, Texaspiet wrote:
>
>
> I live in the Katy TX area just West if Houston about 40 miles or so. I am most
interested in learning how to attach the fittings best to the tubing. As
far as I know there are no plans for the tube fuselage other than the fuselage
itself. Best regards, Rich
>
> --------
> Rich Green, CFI
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=463073#463073
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Tracy <catdesigns(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Horizontal Stab center section build up |
You can get small sheets of high quality birch plywood at many hobby/model
airplane stores. It's what I used. The stuff I used seems to be made with w
aterproof glues and no voids.
Not sure if you should laminate this out of 1/8 ply or not .=C2-
Chris
Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
On Wed, Nov 23, 2016 at 7:25 AM, hall698 wrote:
Per the plans, it shows that the recessed portion of the LE as well as the
center beam be applied with 3/16 ply. My question is can this be pieces of
1/8 ply laminated and sized or should I buy a piece of 3/16 ply for this? H
as anyone used anything other than ply? Spruce? also is the TE to be applie
d with 3/16 as well or just the 1/8? Thanks in advance for any help on this
.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=462992#462992
=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
S -
WIKI -
-
=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Horizontal Stab center section build up |
| From: | "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com> |
Having seen this joint in failure mode, 1/8 will work fine. However, I still like
to build to plans, just for peace of mind. I am FULLY convinced that laminating
up to 3/16 yourself is super perfectly fine.
I might add that the plans call for merely wood screwing the stab to the fuse.
Not through bolting as is usually done. Should you through bolt, I would reinforce
the fuse where you drill through it, scarf plate, what ever, something.
Using screws does not compromise the longeron any where near as much as drilling
a hole through it.
Tools
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=463078#463078
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Horizontal Stab center section build up |
| From: | "hall698" <webdatasoft(at)hotmail.com> |
Great info. I will go the 2 x 1/8 lam route for now. Thanks for the advice. God
Bless
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=463079#463079
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Horizontal Stab center section build up |
| From: | "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com> |
Didn't mention specifically, but I wouldn't hesitate to go 2x 1/8 and then plane
to 3/16 which is I believe what you mentioned in your original post.
Tools
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=463080#463080
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Horizontal Stab center section build up |
| From: | "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
I see that the last part of your question wasn't addressed, asking whether the
plywood piece on the TE should also be 3/16". What I'm seeing of the beam sections,
the LE nose is 3/4" and the beam thickness is 1/2", so that leaves a step
of 1/8" to receive the 3/16" plywood. That means that the plywood will be
1/16" proud of the LE nose where the vertical stabilizer attaches to it. There
are some 1/2" x 3/16" strips every 9" or so, spanwise out each side of the HS,
so those will also stand proud of the LE beam by 1/16". I'm not sure if people
are rounding those down to fair into the nose of the LE... someone else will
have to answer that.
Moving aft along the HS, there is a 3/4" thick center beam and 3/4" thick diagonal
braces that the 1/2" x 3/16" strips ride over, giving the whole HS a bit of
an upper and lower camber. Where the 3/16" plywood goes on top of the center
beam, it's matching the 3/16" thickness of the strips... so far, so good. Now
to the main beam of the HS, since it is called out as 5/8" thick with a 1"
beam depth. If you make that plywood 3/16" thick, it will be perfectly flush
with the beam, as will the 1/2" x 3/16" strips, so there's that piece of the puzzle...
that plywood should also be 3/16".
Continuing aft to the TE of the elevator, that piece is called out as 5/8" with
a thickness of 1/2", leaving a 1/16" step. The 1/2"x3/16" strips are going to
stick up 1/8", not a very smooth transition to the TE, so I don't know what
the answer is back there. The callouts for 1/8" plywood on the HS plan are for
the gussets where the diagonals join the center beam, at the four corners of
the assembly, and under the back of the main beam where you will attach the nutplates
that hold the elevator hinges to the main beam.
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power, 72x36 Culver prop
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=463085#463085
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Horizontal Stab center section build up |
| From: | "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca> |
Just laminate a piece of 1/8" and a piece of 1/16" together. You should have those
two thicknesses of plywood, since the rib gussets are 1/16" and pretty much
all of the other gussets are 1/8".
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=463094#463094
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "M W Stanley" <mmrally(at)nifty.com> |
| Subject: | And so it begins again. |
Hi all,
It's been quite a while since I have managed to do anything on the Piet
project.
Hopefully I can get a bit done this time round. I'm making a start on
the elevators and will see what happens from there.
The fin/rudder and a full set of ribs were made earlier and have been
waiting for me to get on with it again...step by step!
Cheers
Mark Stanley
Japan
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Rebuilding plus questions about elevator cable tension |
| From: | "Lostman" <howhypno(at)hotmail.com> |
Hello all,
First post here on Matronics. This summer I acquired a once beautiful Pietenpol
with some neat history. Sadly it was involved in some sore of accident but no
real story behind it. I was basically a basket case of parts with a good set
of wings and a fuselage that needed some wood repair. Luckily after a very thorough
inventory and a lot of time looking over things I found I have an extremely
well built aircraft. It also seems it won an award at Oshkosk in 1999 after
attending Brodhead. I'll try to work on posting up a rebuild thread later.
However right now I have one very elusive question. How tight should the rigging
be on the elevator control cables? I've searched all through the site and all
over the internet and haven't found anything. After hooking up all cables to
check over everything I found that the stick is VERY heavy. I loosened up the
cables some but then I seem to have enough slack that it worries me. However
the stick pressure is much better than before. Anyone have any suggestions for
me on this one?
I've attached a picture of what the plane looked like back in 1999. It will be
very similar once rebuilt. Thanks for any suggestions.
Kenneth
--------
I'm an airplane addict. I own a Teenie Two, remnants of an Avid, a KR2, hang glider
and paraglider as well as my 1997 Pietenpol Air Camper. As a CFII/MEI I love
sharing the gift of flight with just about anyone that will fly with me.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=463100#463100
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/old_paint_125.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Just A Few Days Left... |
Dear Listers,
There are just a few days left for this year's List Fund Raiser. If you've been
putting off making a Contribution until the last minute, well, this is it!
The last minute, that is... :-) There are some GREAT new gift selections to choose
from this year. I personally want at least three of them! There's probably
something you can't live without too! And, best of all it supports your
Lists!
Please remember that there isn't any sort of commercial advertising on the Lists
and the *only* means of keeping these Lists running is through your Contributions
during this Fund Raiser. Let's make this a "Black Friday" for the Lists!
Please make a Contribution today!
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or, drop a personal check in the mail to:
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581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rebuilding plus questions about elevator cable tension |
| From: | "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
Greetings, 'Lostman'-
You've got an interesting airplane there. Checking the FAA registry on Six-Three-Niner-Eight,
it does not list the engine type, but the photo looks like it's
a Subaru. No sign of a radiator though... just all those ventilation louvers
on the aft side of the cowling. Whatcha got-?
About the elevator cable tension. If your Piet has the stock control cable geometry
(cables pass under the pilot's seat to the walking beam behind the seat,
then individual cables aft to each elevator), the cable tension will never be
the same in both up and down cables and there will always be slack in the cables
at some point in the travel. If you try to take out all the slack, your controls
will bind and the stick will be very stiff in fore-and-aft motion.
There are a couple of things you can look at. First thing is, how are the cables
routed under the rear seat? Plans call for cable guide holes to be bored through
the seat support, but that's pretty crude and most builders either put
small pulleys there or else they provide nylon fairleads for the cables to pass
through. Not essential, but helpful. Next thing is, the elevators ('flippers')
themselves want to sag when the airplane is parked without the engine running,
and just lifting them without any air moving over them can make the stick
a bit heavy when you haul it back on the ground. That force lightens up as
soon as there is propwash or forward motion through the air.
Elevator cable tension: block up the elevators so they're in trail with the horizontal
stabilizer and wiggle the wires. They should not be twangy at all, but
they also shouldn't have much slack with the elevator in that position. At
rest with the flippers down, the top cables on a stock Air Camper will be rubbing
the leading edge of the horizontal stabilizer, so not much slack in those
cables. Most builders add some sort of rub strips on the leading edges of the
HS where the top cable runs over it (mine has pinked leather patches glued on;
the leather was cut from a shoe that I found on the side of the road!) The
lower cables will have noticeable slack in them in that condition.
Are you in Utah, or is that the former owner? The FAA registry lists it as being
in Utah, and the reason I ask is because there are Piet builders in just about
every state of the union and you might be near enough to one to have them
drop by your shop and take a look at the cable tension. One standout Piet person
in Utah is Steve Eldredge, who is in the SLC area. Steve's green Air Camper
is the one you see by the Piet listing when you go to the Matronics site.
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power, 72x36 Culver prop
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=463183#463183
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rebuilding plus questions about elevator cable tension |
| From: | "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
Aha. A little searching of the archives found that your airplane was Duane Woolsey's,
and it is Subaru powered. A snip:
> I have posted a few words here on the EA-81 in my air camper. I biult my
> reduction drive from plans I purchased from RFI publishing. I am using
a
> single electronic ignition (crane cams XR-700) two 36MM carbs mounted on
a
> simple 90 degree manifold madw up from 1 3/4 inch tubing and 1/4 inch plate.
> I am very pleased with this combination. It started first pull and has
run
> for 114 hours without a single stutter. I did spend a little time getting
> the jetting right but once it was dialed in it realy runs good and gives
me
> great performance. The airplane will be at Broadhead this summer so if
any
> of you are interested drop by and get a ride or just take a look.
>
> Duane Woolsey NX6398
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power, 72x36 Culver prop
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=463184#463184
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rebuilding plus questions about elevator cable tension |
| From: | "Lostman" <howhypno(at)hotmail.com> |
taildrags wrote:
> Greetings, 'Lostman'-
>
> You've got an interesting airplane there. Checking the FAA registry on Six-Three-Niner-Eight,
it does not list the engine type, but the photo looks like it's
a Subaru. No sign of a radiator though... just all those ventilation louvers
on the aft side of the cowling. Whatcha got-?
>
> About the elevator cable tension. If your Piet has the stock control cable geometry
(cables pass under the pilot's seat to the walking beam behind the seat,
then individual cables aft to each elevator), the cable tension will never
be the same in both up and down cables and there will always be slack in the cables
at some point in the travel. If you try to take out all the slack, your
controls will bind and the stick will be very stiff in fore-and-aft motion.
>
> There are a couple of things you can look at. First thing is, how are the cables
routed under the rear seat? Plans call for cable guide holes to be bored
through the seat support, but that's pretty crude and most builders either put
small pulleys there or else they provide nylon fairleads for the cables to pass
through. Not essential, but helpful. Next thing is, the elevators ('flippers')
themselves want to sag when the airplane is parked without the engine running,
and just lifting them without any air moving over them can make the stick
a bit heavy when you haul it back on the ground. That force lightens up as
soon as there is propwash or forward motion through the air.
>
> Elevator cable tension: block up the elevators so they're in trail with the horizontal
stabilizer and wiggle the wires. They should not be twangy at all,
but they also shouldn't have much slack with the elevator in that position. At
rest with the flippers down, the top cables on a stock Air Camper will be rubbing
the leading edge of the horizontal stabilizer, so not much slack in those
cables. Most builders add some sort of rub strips on the leading edges of the
HS where the top cable runs over it (mine has pinked leather patches glued
on; the leather was cut from a shoe that I found on the side of the road!) The
lower cables will have noticeable slack in them in that condition.
>
> Are you in Utah, or is that the former owner? The FAA registry lists it as being
in Utah, and the reason I ask is because there are Piet builders in just
about every state of the union and you might be near enough to one to have them
drop by your shop and take a look at the cable tension. One standout Piet person
in Utah is Steve Eldredge, who is in the SLC area. Steve's green Air Camper
is the one you see by the Piet listing when you go to the Matronics site.
I guess I should have included what I know about the plane. You mention Steve Eldredge,
he actually flew to Oshkosh with this plane in formation. He is friends
with Duane Woolsey who built the plane. I have been in contact with Duane as
well, very nice gentleman.
The plane is in Utah, that's where I purchased it. It seems Duane sold it to a
man in Indiana who sold it back to a man in Utah. He is the one that had the accident
in it, although there was never any report filed so not much to go on
there. He sold it again to a younger man that only had it for one month before
I purchased it from him. I at least know the full history of the plane as far
as owners go, but no logsbooks at all. They were lost somewhere along the way.
I suspect the gentleman that had the accident in it kept them. Seems he never
throws anything away and can't find anything else that goes with the plane.
I've met and talked with him as well. Sadly I live in New Jersey now so I don't
have a lot of time to work on the plane unless I'm back out in Utah visiting
and working on it.
I realize that due to the geometry the cable tension basically has to be set to
not be too slack yet not too tight. As well as allowing it to move as it should
without too much stick force. When I rigged it back up the elevators would
actually hang up due to the amount of pressure the cables were holding in the
stick. After a little playing with them I set them about as how you describe.
I figure that's about where they needed to be but wanted to get others opinion
on them that have actually flown the plane. Part of the issue with the tension
may be because I didn't like how the cables were routed. You can visibly see
they were routed in such a way that they were chaffing fairly heavily on a wood
brace. I moved them to another location where I feel they wouldn't have that
issue as much. Plus they are not routed through a nylon tubing that will eliminate
damage to the wood.
Yes, the plane has an EA-81 Subaru engine. Duane placarded it at 100 HP, although
I'm not sure it really has that much since he told me he didn't do anything
to the engine other than intake, carbs, redrive and exhaust. In other words,
no internal changes were made. I've dealt with Subaru engines for a long time
and know this model should really only have about 80 HP stock and with dual carbs
and open exhaust maybe produce 90 HP if the prop will allow it to get to it's
peak torque RPM. He said it came from a car that only had around 35,000 miles
so it's relatively just broken in. These are hardy engines for sure! I've
flown behind a few of them and they are very smooth with a belt redrive taking
all prop harmonics out of the equation.
Thanks for the information, just what I was looking for!
--------
I own a Teenie Two, remnants of an Avid, a KR2, hang glider and paraglider as well
as my 1997 Pietenpol Air Camper. I'm also scratch building a Sonerai IIL.
As a CFII/MEI I love sharing the gift of flight with just about anyone that will
fly with me.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=463185#463185
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_3025_medium_656.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rebuilding plus questions about elevator cable tension |
| From: | "Lostman" <howhypno(at)hotmail.com> |
Here's another picture showing the status of the project I picked up. As you can
tell it's a ways from flying condition. In fact it was basically a basket case
that I believe to have most parts to put it back together.
There was some wood damage but nothing that I'd consider to be substantial or that
will keep me from being able to fix it properly and get it flying again...eventually.
It was missing the entire vertical stabilizer although I have no idea where it
went or why it's missing. I built a new one since I do have plans. Luckily that
is one of the few pieces of paper I have and only due to the fact that the last
owner purchased a new set for this specific purpose.
--------
I own a Teenie Two, remnants of an Avid, a KR2, hang glider and paraglider as well
as my 1997 Pietenpol Air Camper. I'm also scratch building a Sonerai IIL.
As a CFII/MEI I love sharing the gift of flight with just about anyone that will
fly with me.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=463186#463186
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_3016_large_211.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_3015_large_480.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Tracy <catdesigns(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rebuilding plus questions about elevator cable tension |
Was it originally built by Duane Woolsey?=C2-
The cable goint to the elevator will have some slack if built to the drawin
gs. If it's =C2-too tight it will make them feel heavy.
Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
On Fri, Nov 25, 2016 at 4:04 PM, Lostman wrote: -
Hello all,
First post here on Matronics. This summer I acquired a once beautiful Piete
npol with some neat history. Sadly it was involved in some sore of accident
but no real story behind it. I was basically a basket case of parts with a
good set of wings and a fuselage that needed some wood repair. Luckily aft
er a very thorough inventory and a lot of time looking over things I found
I have an extremely well built aircraft. It also seems it won an award at O
shkosk in 1999 after attending Brodhead. I'll try to work on posting up a r
ebuild thread later.
However right now I have one very elusive question. How tight should the ri
gging be on the elevator control cables? I've searched all through the site
and all over the internet and haven't found anything. After hooking up all
cables to check over everything I found that the stick is VERY heavy. I lo
osened up the cables some but then I seem to have enough slack that it worr
ies me. However the stick pressure is much better than before. Anyone have
any suggestions for me on this one?
I've attached a picture of what the plane looked like back in 1999. It will
be very similar once rebuilt. Thanks for any suggestions.
Kenneth
--------
I'm an airplane addict. I own a Teenie Two, remnants of an Avid, a KR2, han
g glider and paraglider as well as my 1997 Pietenpol Air Camper. As a CFII/
MEI I love sharing the gift of flight with just about anyone that will fly
with me.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=463100#463100
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/old_paint_125.jpg
=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
S -
WIKI -
-
=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douwe Blumberg" <douwe(at)douwestudios.com> |
| Subject: | elevator cable tension |
I'd say match the tension on your other Piet. If it's been flying, can't go
wrong there.
Other than that, it's pretty much a "feeling" thing. you don't want them
any tighter than necessary to eliminate any possibility of the elevator
moving independently of the stick. We're talking about from the rocking
beam back to the actual elevator. You'll find it's actually fairly loose.
Prop the elevator up when adjusting or the weight of the elevator will fool
you and create more tension on the upper cable
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rebuilding plus questions about elevator cable |
tension
| From: | Matt Paxton <woodflier(at)aol.com> |
Are you the guy who was at Old Rhinebeck this past August with the nice homebuilt
teardrop trailer? A lot of this story of the Piet rebuild is sounding familiar.
I was one of the guys who flew up from Virginia in our Piets.
Matt Paxton
NX629MLOn Nov 26, 2016 3:02 PM, Lostman wrote:
>
>
> taildrags wrote:
> > Greetings, 'Lostman'-
> >
> > You've got an interesting airplane there. Checking the FAA registry on Six-Three-Niner-Eight,
it does not list the engine type, but the photo looks like
it's a Subaru. No sign of a radiator though... just all those ventilation louvers
on the aft side of the cowling. Whatcha got-?
> >
> > About the elevator cable tension. If your Piet has the stock control cable
geometry (cables pass under the pilot's seat to the walking beam behind the seat,
then individual cables aft to each elevator), the cable tension will never
be the same in both up and down cables and there will always be slack in the
cables at some point in the travel. If you try to take out all the slack, your
controls will bind and the stick will be very stiff in fore-and-aft motion.
> >
> > There are a couple of things you can look at. First thing is, how are the cables
routed under the rear seat? Plans call for cable guide holes to be bored
through the seat support, but that's pretty crude and most builders either put
small pulleys there or else they provide nylon fairleads for the cables to pass
through. Not essential, but helpful. Next thing is, the elevators ('flippers')
themselves want to sag when the airplane is parked without the engine running,
and just lifting them without any air moving over them can make the stick
a bit heavy when you haul it back on the ground. That force lightens up as soon
as there is propwash or forward motion through the air.
> >
> > Elevator cable tension: block up the elevators so they're in trail with the
horizontal stabilizer and wiggle the wires. They should not be twangy at all,
but they also shouldn't have much slack with the elevator in that position. At
rest with the flippers down, the top cables on a stock Air Camper will be rubbing
the leading edge of the horizontal stabilizer, so not much slack in those
cables. Most builders add some sort of rub strips on the leading edges of the
HS where the top cable runs over it (mine has pinked leather patches glued on;
the leather was cut from a shoe that I found on the side of the road!) The
lower cables will have noticeable slack in them in that condition.
> >
> > Are you in Utah, or is that the former owner? The FAA registry lists it as
being in Utah, and the reason I ask is because there are Piet builders in just
about every state of the union and you might be near enough to one to have them
drop by your shop and take a look at the cable tension. One standout Piet person
in Utah is Steve Eldredge, who is in the SLC area. Steve's green Air Camper
is the one you see by the Piet listing when you go to the Matronics site.
>
>
> I guess I should have included what I know about the plane. You mention Steve
Eldredge, he actually flew to Oshkosh with this plane in formation. He is friends
with Duane Woolsey who built the plane. I have been in contact with Duane
as well, very nice gentleman.
>
> The plane is in Utah, that's where I purchased it. It seems Duane sold it to
a man in Indiana who sold it back to a man in Utah. He is the one that had the
accident in it, although there was never any report filed so not much to go on
there. He sold it again to a younger man that only had it for one month before
I purchased it from him. I at least know the full history of the plane as far
as owners go, but no logsbooks at all. They were lost somewhere along the way.
I suspect the gentleman that had the accident in it kept them. Seems he never
throws anything away and can't find anything else that goes with the plane.
I've met and talked with him as well. Sadly I live in New Jersey now so I don't
have a lot of time to work on the plane unless I'm back out in Utah visiting
and working on it.
>
> I realize that due to the geometry the cable tension basically has to be set
to not be too slack yet not too tight. As well as allowing it to move as it should
without too much stick force. When I rigged it back up the elevators would
actually hang up due to the amount of pressure the cables were holding in the
stick. After a little playing with them I set them about as how you describe.
I figure that's about where they needed to be but wanted to get others opinion
on them that have actually flown the plane. Part of the issue with the tension
may be because I didn't like how the cables were routed. You can visibly see
they were routed in such a way that they were chaffing fairly heavily on a
wood brace. I moved them to another location where I feel they wouldn't have that
issue as much. Plus they are not routed through a nylon tubing that will eliminate
damage to the wood.
>
> Yes, the plane has an EA-81 Subaru engine. Duane placarded it at 100 HP, although
I'm not sure it really has that much since he told me he didn't do anything
to the engine other than intake, carbs, redrive and exhaust. In other words,
no internal changes were made. I've dealt with Subaru engines for a long time
and know this model should really only have about 80 HP stock and with dual
carbs and open exhaust maybe produce 90 HP if the prop will allow it to get to
it's peak torque RPM. He said it came from a car that only had around 35,000
miles so it's relatively just broken in. These are hardy engines for sure! I've
flown behind a few of them and they are very smooth with a belt redrive taking
all prop harmonics out of the equation.
>
> Thanks for the information, just what I was looking for!
>
> --------
> I own a Teenie Two, remnants of an Avid, a KR2, hang glider and paraglider as
well as my 1997 Pietenpol Air Camper. I'm also scratch building a Sonerai IIL.
As a CFII/MEI I love sharing the gift of flight with just about anyone that
will fly with me.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=463185#463185
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_3025_medium_656.jpg
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "(null) raykrause" <raykrause(at)frontiernet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rebuilding plus questions about elevator cable |
tension
"Lost man",
The paint scheme on your Piet is stolen from mine, although I'm just in the p
rocess of finishing mine! It's amazing how people can steal things like tha
t! Anyway, nice to have a twin Piet around.
Ray Krause
Sent from my iPad
> On Nov 26, 2016, at 9:51 AM, taildrags wrote:
>
>
> Greetings, 'Lostman'-
>
> You've got an interesting airplane there. Checking the FAA registry on Si
x-Three-Niner-Eight, it does not list the engine type, but the photo looks l
ike it's a Subaru. No sign of a radiator though... just all those ventilati
on louvers on the aft side of the cowling. Whatcha got-?
>
> About the elevator cable tension. If your Piet has the stock control cabl
e geometry (cables pass under the pilot's seat to the walking beam behind th
e seat, then individual cables aft to each elevator), the cable tension will
never be the same in both up and down cables and there will always be slack
in the cables at some point in the travel. If you try to take out all the s
lack, your controls will bind and the stick will be very stiff in fore-and-a
ft motion.
>
> There are a couple of things you can look at. First thing is, how are the
cables routed under the rear seat? Plans call for cable guide holes to be b
ored through the seat support, but that's pretty crude and most builders eit
her put small pulleys there or else they provide nylon fairleads for the cab
les to pass through. Not essential, but helpful. Next thing is, the elevat
ors ('flippers') themselves want to sag when the airplane is parked without t
he engine running, and just lifting them without any air moving over them ca
n make the stick a bit heavy when you haul it back on the ground. That forc
e lightens up as soon as there is propwash or forward motion through the air
.
>
> Elevator cable tension: block up the elevators so they're in trail with th
e horizontal stabilizer and wiggle the wires. They should not be twangy at a
ll, but they also shouldn't have much slack with the elevator in that positi
on. At rest with the flippers down, the top cables on a stock Air Camper wi
ll be rubbing the leading edge of the horizontal stabilizer, so not much sla
ck in those cables. Most builders add some sort of rub strips on the leadin
g edges of the HS where the top cable runs over it (mine has pinked leather p
atches glued on; the leather was cut from a shoe that I found on the side of
the road!) The lower cables will have noticeable slack in them in that con
dition.
>
> Are you in Utah, or is that the former owner? The FAA registry lists it a
s being in Utah, and the reason I ask is because there are Piet builders in j
ust about every state of the union and you might be near enough to one to ha
ve them drop by your shop and take a look at the cable tension. One standou
t Piet person in Utah is Steve Eldredge, who is in the SLC area. Steve's gr
een Air Camper is the one you see by the Piet listing when you go to the Mat
ronics site.
>
> --------
> Oscar Zuniga
> Medford, OR
> Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
> A75 power, 72x36 Culver prop
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=463183#463183
>
>
>
>
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rebuilding plus questions about elevator cable tension |
| From: | "Lostman" <howhypno(at)hotmail.com> |
[quote="Ray Krause"]"Lost man",
The paint scheme on your Piet is stolen from mine, although I'm just in the process
of finishing mine! It's amazing how people can steal things like that! Anyway,
nice to have a twin Piet around.
Ray Krause
That paint scheme is very close to what mine had on it. In fact I will be going
all red on the turtle deck when it's finished as well. Wish the picture was upside
down but it appears to be a nice Scout.
How far along are you now? Is it flying?
Kenneth
--------
I own a Teenie Two, remnants of an Avid, a KR2, hang glider and paraglider as well
as my 1997 Pietenpol Air Camper. I'm also scratch building a Sonerai IIL.
As a CFII/MEI I love sharing the gift of flight with just about anyone that will
fly with me.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=463193#463193
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: elevator cable tension |
| From: | "Lostman" <howhypno(at)hotmail.com> |
douwe(at)douwestudios.com wrote:
> Id say match the tension on your other Piet. If its been flying, cant go wrong
there.
>
> Other than that, its pretty much a feeling thing. you dont want them any tighter
than necessary to eliminate any possibility of the elevator moving independently
of the stick. Were talking about from the rocking beam back to the actual
elevator. Youll find its actually fairly loose. Prop the elevator up when
adjusting or the weight of the elevator will fool you and create more tension
on the upper cable
>
> Douwe
I kind of figured that's what I needed to do. I do appreciate the confirmation
though. That's pretty much where I have the tension set now.
Not sure what you mean by matching it on my "other" Piet since this is my only
one. Maybe this post isn't in response to my question though. Either way, thanks.
Kenneth
--------
I own a Teenie Two, remnants of an Avid, a KR2, hang glider and paraglider as well
as my 1997 Pietenpol Air Camper. I'm also scratch building a Sonerai IIL.
As a CFII/MEI I love sharing the gift of flight with just about anyone that will
fly with me.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=463197#463197
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rebuilding plus questions about elevator cable tension |
| From: | "Lostman" <howhypno(at)hotmail.com> |
Yes this one was built by Duane Woosley. I've talked to and met with him about
this aircraft as well. Nice gentleman and fine builder.
--------
I own a Teenie Two, remnants of an Avid, a KR2, hang glider and paraglider as well
as my 1997 Pietenpol Air Camper. I'm also scratch building a Sonerai IIL.
As a CFII/MEI I love sharing the gift of flight with just about anyone that will
fly with me.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=463198#463198
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "(null) raykrause" <raykrause(at)frontiernet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rebuilding plus questions about elevator cable |
tension
Kenneth,
Sorry the picture was upside down, I'm not sure how that works? It was right when
I sent it and right when I received it, must be the Ghosts of Christmas!
Yes, it is a SkyScout with a new rebuilt A-65. Its about ready to go, just need
to do some paperwork, get the numbers on her and get the final inspection. All
the controls are working nicely, engines runs great, just minor things like
safety wire for the turnbuckles, cotter pins in castle nuts, etc. and it will
fly this Spring, if not before. I will have to do some taxi tests and bone up
on wheel landings in the Aeronca! Too bad you are not in CA.
Thanks,
Ray Krause
Sent from my iPad
> On Nov 26, 2016, at 2:37 PM, Lostman wrote:
>
>
> [quote="Ray Krause"]"Lost man",
>
> The paint scheme on your Piet is stolen from mine, although I'm just in the process
of finishing mine! It's amazing how people can steal things like that!
Anyway, nice to have a twin Piet around.
>
> Ray Krause
>
> That paint scheme is very close to what mine had on it. In fact I will be going
all red on the turtle deck when it's finished as well. Wish the picture was
upside down but it appears to be a nice Scout.
>
> How far along are you now? Is it flying?
>
> Kenneth
>
> --------
> I own a Teenie Two, remnants of an Avid, a KR2, hang glider and paraglider as
well as my 1997 Pietenpol Air Camper. I'm also scratch building a Sonerai IIL.
As a CFII/MEI I love sharing the gift of flight with just about anyone that
will fly with me.
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=463193#463193
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rebuilding plus questions about elevator cable tension |
| From: | "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
Kenneth;
If you'll notice the tail surfaces of Ray's Scout (picture it rightside up), notice
that the flippers hang down when the airplane is parked, and that the top
elevator cables contact the leading edge of the horizontal stabilizer. Similarly,
notice that there is slack (a slight belly) in the lower cables. This is
pretty much what things should look like back there.
By the way, in case you weren't already aware of this resource, there is an absolute gold mine of Piet pictures and information on Chris Tracy's website, http://www.westcoastpiet.com . You can spend hours looking at pictures of every aspect of an Air Camper from first cutting of wood to Oshkosh trophy, and everything in between. Might save you some time when you are wondering how other builders have done something that you're thinking about. If you want to start with one of the best, go to Pictures, then Mike Cuy's pictures, then just go through them one by one and learn as you admire.
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power, 72x36 Culver prop
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=463202#463202
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Please Make a Contribution to Support Your Lists... |
Dear Listers,
Just a reminder that November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Please make a Contribution
today to support the continued operation and upgrade
of these great List services!! Pick up a really nice free gift with your qualifying
Contribution too!
The Contribution Site is fast and easy:
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or by dropping a personal check in the mail to:
Matt Dralle / Matronics
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rebuilding plus questions about elevator cable tension |
| From: | "DonkDoug" <douglas.wright(at)okstate.edu> |
Ray, how far back from vertical are the cabanes on your Sky Scout to get within
a 15" -20" CG with the A-65 you are using?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=463297#463297
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rebuilding plus questions about elevator cable |
tension
| From: | "(null) raykrause" <raykrause(at)frontiernet.net> |
Doug,
My cabanes are sloped back 5.5" from vertical. My preliminary calculations say
that will do it, but I will do some more accurate weighing this week, I hope.
I have to mount the jury struts and the cowl, but they are ready to go so that
won't take too long. If I forget, ask me next week.
My motor mount is 1.5" longer than the mount plans that came with the SkyScout/AirCamper
plans set. I hope I'm not tail heavy. I have a battery mounted on the
firewall for supplemental power, no starter.
Ray
Sent from my iPad
> On Nov 27, 2016, at 7:03 PM, DonkDoug wrote:
>
>
> Ray, how far back from vertical are the cabanes on your Sky Scout to get within
a 15" -20" CG with the A-65 you are using?
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=463297#463297
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | were to find a radiator |
| From: | "aviken" <aviken(at)hughes.net> |
A question for the water cooled pietenpolers out there. Is there an off the shelf
radiator that works . Maybe a small tractor such as the 8N , or a small
car radiator ? I know that we are limited as to the size and I hate to have
the expense one custom built.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=463300#463300
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rebuilding plus questions about elevator cable tension |
| From: | "Speedbrake" <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
Hello Ray. I am down with the heat muff on the Scout. Do you have feedback on how
well it does/does not work?
--------
Mike Perez
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=463303#463303
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "iowaboy" <miket(at)southslope.net> |
I am considering building a Sky Scout. I have some questions.
I am 5 foot 9 in tall and weigh 220 lbs. will I fit in one and the CG be ok?
Who else on the list is building or flying one?
What is the hardest part about building one?
Thanks
Mike Townsley
miket(at)southslope.net
--------
Serve the Lord with gladness,
Mike
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=463305#463305
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "(null) raykrause" <raykrause(at)frontiernet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rebuilding plus questions about elevator cable |
tension
Mike,
I've run the engine maybe 10 times, but I've not actually tried the carb heat,
can you believe that? Depending on other obligations, I might try it this week,
or early next week. Please check back with me, if I don't respond.
Ray
Sent from my iPad
> On Nov 28, 2016, at 7:05 AM, Speedbrake wrote:
>
>
> Hello Ray. I am down with the heat muff on the Scout. Do you have feedback on
how well it does/does not work?
>
> --------
> Mike Perez
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=463303#463303
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Glen Schweizer <glenschweizer(at)yahoo.com> |
Hello Mike
Search west coast Pietenpol. Enormous amount of info there. If you want to look
at plans, flying and glider manual reprints are available through EAA website
Construction pretty straightforward but this is an airplane you are building.
It's a long-term project but very satisfying. If you are married get the wife
on board or it won't happen if you're not married consider marrying the project
because that's what kind of devotion it takes.
Although they have been built in the space equivalent to a single car garage
you really need more space shop organization is critical although you don't really
need that many tools
You really can learn a lot more on the West Coast Piet site and the archives
of this site than any one person can tell you. Anyway welcome to the neighborhood
> On Nov 28, 2016, at 7:26 AM, iowaboy wrote:
>
>
> I am considering building a Sky Scout. I have some questions.
>
> I am 5 foot 9 in tall and weigh 220 lbs. will I fit in one and the CG be ok?
>
> Who else on the list is building or flying one?
>
> What is the hardest part about building one?
> Thanks
> Mike Townsley
> miket(at)southslope.net
>
> --------
> Serve the Lord with gladness,
> Mike
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=463305#463305
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "iowaboy" <miket(at)southslope.net> |
Thank you Glen. I am married and my wife is ok with me building. I need to make
a commitment to getting started and finishing it. I do have a set of plans for
the Scout and the Air Camper. Thanks for your suggestions I will ck out the
West Coast Piet web site.
Mike Townsley
Walford Iowa
glen wrote:
> Hello Mike
> Search west coast Pietenpol. Enormous amount of info there. If you want to look
at plans, flying and glider manual reprints are available through EAA website
> Construction pretty straightforward but this is an airplane you are building.
It's a long-term project but very satisfying. If you are married get the wife
on board or it won't happen if you're not married consider marrying the project
because that's what kind of devotion it takes.
> Although they have been built in the space equivalent to a single car garage
you really need more space shop organization is critical although you don't
really need that many tools
> You really can learn a lot more on the West Coast Piet site and the archives
of this site than any one person can tell you. Anyway welcome to the neighborhood
>
> > On Nov 28, 2016, at 7:26 AM, iowaboy wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > I am considering building a Sky Scout. I have some questions.
> >
> > I am 5 foot 9 in tall and weigh 220 lbs. will I fit in one and the CG be
ok?
> >
> > Who else on the list is building or flying one?
> >
> > What is the hardest part about building one?
> > Thanks
> > Mike Townsley
> > miket(at)southslope.net
> >
> > --------
> > Serve the Lord with gladness,
> > Mike
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=463305#463305
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
--------
Serve the Lord with gladness,
Mike
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=463309#463309
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rebuilding plus questions about elevator cable tension |
| From: | "Speedbrake" <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
Copy. I am curious to hear how the muff does both on the ground and in the air.
--------
Mike Perez
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=463314#463314
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Fund Raiser Behind By 28% - Please Contribute Today! |
Dear Listers,
The percentage of members making a Contribution to support the Lists this year
is currently behind last year by at this time by roughly 28%. Please take this
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Please take a moment to make a Contribution today in support of the continued ad-free
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Or, drop a personal check in the mail to:
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I want to send out a word of appreciation to all of the members that have already
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Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Email List and Forums Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "wheelharp" <wheelharp(at)gmail.com> |
Mike,
If you have tools to dimension your own lumber, you are 3 hrs away from a really
good source for rough Sitka spruce. McCormick lumber has really nice stuff for
I believe around $10 BF
welcome to the group!
Jon
--------
Jon Jones
Ironton, MO
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=463393#463393
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "wheelharp" <wheelharp(at)gmail.com> |
Mike,
If you have tools to dimension your own lumber, you are 3 hrs away from a really
good source for rough Sitka spruce. McCormick lumber has really nice stuff for
I believe around $10 BF
welcome to the group!
Jon
--------
Jon Jones
Ironton, MO
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=463394#463394
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "iowaboy" <miket(at)southslope.net> |
wheelharp wrote:
> Mike,
>
> If you have tools to dimension your own lumber, you are 3 hrs away from a really
good source for rough Sitka spruce. McCormick lumber in Madison WI has really
nice stuff for I believe around $10 BF
>
> welcome to the group!
>
> Jon
Jon,
Thanks for the tip. I have some spruce and some doug fir already but I will probably
need to get more. It is good to know about McCormick Lumber, I hope I can
get up there some day. Do you know what dimensions their boards are?
Thanks much,
Mike
--------
Serve the Lord with gladness,
Mike
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=463399#463399
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com> |
Every time I've been there they've had 4/4 and 5/4, random widths with most around
5 to 6 inches. Super clear 16 ft lengths or a little more.
The 5/4 easily dimensions to 1" if you want very simple one piece spars.
Tools
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=463403#463403
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
Mike; I'm curious to know why you've decided on the 1-place Sky Scout over the
2-place Air Camper? Performance is about the same, construction is about the
same (give or take one set of controls), cost to build and operate will be about
the same. Not criticizing your decision... just wondering. Welcome to the
list!
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power, 72x36 Culver prop
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=463418#463418
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | sky scout vs Air Camper |
Mike, I agree with Oscar (man, I am swallowing my pride). Take a good look
at the Air Camper.
Taking someone up flying is one of the great joys of flying for me.
--
Blue Skies,
Steve D
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "iowaboy" <miket(at)southslope.net> |
taildrags wrote:
> Mike; I'm curious to know why you've decided on the 1-place Sky Scout over the
2-place Air Camper? Performance is about the same, construction is about the
same (give or take one set of controls), cost to build and operate will be about
the same. Not criticizing your decision... just wondering. Welcome to the
list!
Well I could get my wife to agree on this one. I don't know that any of my family
is interested in flying in an airplane I would build....I have considered
the Air Camper and do have plans for it too. I may change my mind?? I was looking
for a very simple to build airplane that is not hot to fly, and fun open
cockpit. Thanks for asking.
I weight 220-225 lbs and am 5' 9" tall. Chad Willie hinted that I might weigh
to much for the Scout to get the CG right...What do all of you know about heavier
pilots and Piet airplanes??
Thanks
Mike
--------
Serve the Lord with gladness,
Mike
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=463423#463423
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com> |
Mike, the plane was designed by Mr Pietenpol for 1930s guys when the
average size was around 150-160 pounds. in the 1950s it increased to 170
and now the FAA says an average male is 191.
The plane will certainly fly with you in it weight wise, but The Air Camper
has about a foot longer wing span and can handle bigger engines. The list
even has a builder who is really big and he is building a single seat Air
Camper.
You might consider the long fuselage. and some of the other modifications
for bigger guys. My cockpit is the short fuselage and at 5'7" it is not
overly large.
--
Blue Skies,
Steve D
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "(null) raykrause" <raykrause(at)frontiernet.net> |
The Scout was designed for the Model T engine which produced about 25 HP. It's
a real hot rod with 65 HP, so I've been told! I think Scott Liefeld has flown
at least one of them. He might comment. And I think he's a little larger than
170 lbs? Sorry Scott, my memory might be failing a little!
Ray
Sent from my iPad
> On Nov 29, 2016, at 8:09 AM, Steven Dortch wrote:
>
> Mike, the plane was designed by Mr Pietenpol for 1930s guys when the average
size was around 150-160 pounds. in the 1950s it increased to 170 and now the FAA
says an average male is 191.
>
> The plane will certainly fly with you in it weight wise, but The Air Camper has
about a foot longer wing span and can handle bigger engines. The list even
has a builder who is really big and he is building a single seat Air Camper.
>
>
> You might consider the long fuselage. and some of the other modifications for
bigger guys. My cockpit is the short fuselage and at 5'7" it is not overly large.
>
> --
> Blue Skies,
> Steve D
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Glen Schweizer <glenschweizer(at)yahoo.com> |
I'm building Chad willie's biplane version(originally a field mod). I widened my
fus to 30". It'll have about 250square feet of wing surface. Lift,anyone?additional
fus and center section weight penalty about 7pounds
> On Nov 29, 2016, at 8:09 AM, Steven Dortch wrote:
>
> Mike, the plane was designed by Mr Pietenpol for 1930s guys when the average
size was around 150-160 pounds. in the 1950s it increased to 170 and now the FAA
says an average male is 191.
>
> The plane will certainly fly with you in it weight wise, but The Air Camper has
about a foot longer wing span and can handle bigger engines. The list even
has a builder who is really big and he is building a single seat Air Camper.
>
>
> You might consider the long fuselage. and some of the other modifications for
bigger guys. My cockpit is the short fuselage and at 5'7" it is not overly large.
>
> --
> Blue Skies,
> Steve D
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Just Two Days Left! - Still Behind... |
Dear Listers,
There are just two more days left in this years List Fund Raiser. We are still
way behind last year in terms of the number of contributions and
total contribution amount. I really want to keep providing these services to the
homebuilt community, but it take resources. Since there's no
advertising budget or deep pockets to keep the operation a float, its solely your
generosity during the Fund Raiser that keeps things going. Please
make a Contribution today.
If you've been putting off showing your support for the Lists, now is the time
to do it!
Make a contribution with a Credit Card or though PayPal at that Matronics Contribution
web site:
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Or, drop a check in the mail:
Matronics / Matt Dralle
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore, CA 94550
Thank you in advance for your support!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rebuilding plus questions about elevator cable tension |
| From: | "DonkDoug" <douglas.wright(at)okstate.edu> |
Thanks Ray.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=463507#463507
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org> |
Mike,
Ray is correct. I have flown both the "T" and "A" powered Scouts. I probably
weighed about 190 lbs when I did fly them. The "A" flew very nicely and was like
a sports car. The "T" was very under-powered and I didn't get more than about
20' AGL since I took off from about 2850' MSL. The "T" flew like it was
tail heavy. The "A" was balanced perfectly.
It was 20 years ago. I weighed as much as 232 lbs flying my Cont. powered Aircamper.
This is not a problem. I have since lost 40 lbs and back down to the
190 lb range again. My plane is much happier now.
Ray could probably give you the best pilot weight range since he has completed
the most recent SkyScout. Yes Ray, I just threw you under the same bus. We may
as well stick together.
Conclusion here is that you should pay very close attention and build a light airplane.
Forrest Lovely mentioned the other day that the "A" powered Piet weighed
593 lbs after he rebuilt it. This is the one I flew. You can probably build
a Scout to work with your pilot weight. Just compute the CG multiple times
during the build process.
--------
Scott Liefeld
Flying N11MS since March 1972
Steel Tube
C-85-12
Wire Wheels
Brodhead in 1996
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=463508#463508
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "iowaboy" <miket(at)southslope.net> |
Thanks guys for the great advice!
Mike
--------
Serve the Lord with gladness,
Mike
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=463512#463512
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: sky scout vs Air Camper |
| From: | "iowaboy" <miket(at)southslope.net> |
Thanks Steve...I am thinking about it hard.
Mike Townsley
--------
Serve the Lord with gladness,
Mike
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=463513#463513
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Patricia's Pietenpol flies ! |
| From: | "iowaboy" <miket(at)southslope.net> |
Way to go...looks great!
--------
Serve the Lord with gladness,
Mike
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=463514#463514
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "(null) raykrause" <raykrause(at)frontiernet.net> |
Mike,
I got two of the jury struts on today, but lost a couple fittings for the other
two? Maybe my wife hid them? It's amazing what I can lose over a three year build
time! It pays to build faster, or be more organized.
I hope to have some CG numbers within a week, or so. Now that my "friend" , Scott,
threw it on my shoulders! Maybe he will have to confirm my numbers before
I publish them? Scott is the EAA Councilor for the Pietenpols. He has inspected
mine once and gave me a few pointers that I followed. He is a real source
of great information on all things Pietenpol. When he speaks, we should all listen.
He has test flown several Pietenpols for builders, if I remember correctly.
Stay tuned,
Ray Krause
Sent from my iPad
> On Nov 29, 2016, at 12:20 PM, AircamperN11MS wrote:
>
>
> Mike,
>
> Ray is correct. I have flown both the "T" and "A" powered Scouts. I probably
weighed about 190 lbs when I did fly them. The "A" flew very nicely and was
like a sports car. The "T" was very under-powered and I didn't get more than
about 20' AGL since I took off from about 2850' MSL. The "T" flew like it was
tail heavy. The "A" was balanced perfectly.
>
> It was 20 years ago. I weighed as much as 232 lbs flying my Cont. powered Aircamper.
This is not a problem. I have since lost 40 lbs and back down to the
190 lb range again. My plane is much happier now.
>
> Ray could probably give you the best pilot weight range since he has completed
the most recent SkyScout. Yes Ray, I just threw you under the same bus. We
may as well stick together.
>
> Conclusion here is that you should pay very close attention and build a light
airplane. Forrest Lovely mentioned the other day that the "A" powered Piet weighed
593 lbs after he rebuilt it. This is the one I flew. You can probably
build a Scout to work with your pilot weight. Just compute the CG multiple times
during the build process.
>
> --------
> Scott Liefeld
> Flying N11MS since March 1972
> Steel Tube
> C-85-12
> Wire Wheels
> Brodhead in 1996
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=463508#463508
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | [Please Read] - Last Official Day of List Fund Raiser! |
Dear Listers,
It's November 30th and that always means a couple of things. Its my birthday again
- 53! :-) But it also means that it's that last official day of the Matronics
Email List Fund Raiser! If you been thinking about picking up one of those
really nice incentive gifts now is the time to jump on it!!
If you've been meaning to make a Contribution this month but have been putting
it off for some reason, NOW is the time!
I will be posting the List of Contributors in a few days, so you'll probably want
to be known as a person that supported the Lists!
I want to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution this year in
support of our Lists. It is your generosity that keeps this operation running
and I don't ever forget it.
The List Contribution Web Site is fast and easy. Please support our habit by making
your Contribution right now:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or, by dropping a personal check in the mail to:
Matt Dralle / Matronics
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
USA
Thank you in advance!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Cuy <michaelcuy1(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rebuilding plus questions about elevator cable tension |
*That Piet belonged to Duane Woolsey from Utah and had an auto
engine---Subaru I believe. *
*Duane flew it all the way to Wisconsin from Utah and then sold it while it
was on the flight line*
*at Oshkosh. Duane and Steve Eldridge (from Provo I believe) were and
probably are still good friends. *
*Steve started this list years ago before Matt D. gave it a home. *
On Fri, Nov 25, 2016 at 7:04 PM, Lostman wrote:
>
> Hello all,
> First post here on Matronics. This summer I acquired a once beautiful
> Pietenpol with some neat history. Sadly it was involved in some sore of
> accident but no real story behind it. I was basically a basket case of
> parts with a good set of wings and a fuselage that needed some wood repair.
> Luckily after a very thorough inventory and a lot of time looking over
> things I found I have an extremely well built aircraft. It also seems it
> won an award at Oshkosk in 1999 after attending Brodhead. I'll try to work
> on posting up a rebuild thread later.
>
> However right now I have one very elusive question. How tight should the
> rigging be on the elevator control cables? I've searched all through the
> site and all over the internet and haven't found anything. After hooking up
> all cables to check over everything I found that the stick is VERY heavy. I
> loosened up the cables some but then I seem to have enough slack that it
> worries me. However the stick pressure is much better than before. Anyone
> have any suggestions for me on this one?
>
> I've attached a picture of what the plane looked like back in 1999. It
> will be very similar once rebuilt. Thanks for any suggestions.
> Kenneth
>
> --------
> I'm an airplane addict. I own a Teenie Two, remnants of an Avid, a KR2,
> hang glider and paraglider as well as my 1997 Pietenpol Air Camper. As a
> CFII/MEI I love sharing the gift of flight with just about anyone that will
> fly with me.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=463100#463100
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/old_paint_125.jpg
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "iowaboy" <miket(at)southslope.net> |
Glen,
That is a lot more wing to build but a neat plane!
I hope you post some photos so we can see it.
Mike Townsley
glen wrote:
> I'm building Chad willie's biplane version(originally a field mod). I widened
my fus to 30". It'll have about 250square feet of wing surface. Lift,anyone?additional
fus and center section weight penalty about 7pounds
>
>
> > On Nov 29, 2016, at 8:09 AM, Steven Dortch wrote:
> >
> > Mike, the plane was designed by Mr Pietenpol for 1930s guys when the average
size was around 150-160 pounds. in the 1950s it increased to 170 and now the
FAA says an average male is 191.
> >
> > The plane will certainly fly with you in it weight wise, but The Air Camper
has about a foot longer wing span and can handle bigger engines. The list even
has a builder who is really big and he is building a single seat Air Camper.
> >
> >
> > You might consider the long fuselage. and some of the other modifications
for bigger guys. My cockpit is the short fuselage and at 5'7" it is not overly
large.
> >
> > --
> > Blue Skies,
> > Steve D
> >
> >
>
--------
Serve the Lord with gladness,
Mike
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=463605#463605
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Glen Schweizer <glenschweizer(at)yahoo.com> |
yes LOTS OF RIBS lots of turnbuckles for a bipe too. I can only imagine the noise
of the wind through all that wire. Lot different than my Cessna
Different chord on bottom wing. 75% of top wing which is normal pietenpol. Fun
project so far
I do auto restoration and build street rods for a living so a more vintage
style suits me. Speaking of vintage, I got a call from a EEA friend about an
opportunity at his workplace. I walked into the shop... a stack of wing ribs,
spars wings in various stages of completion, a round engine in a corner on a
stand another over there. Long story short: I get to build airplanes for a living,
Stearman biplanes. So much for retirement next spring! KEEP BUILDING, FLYING
AND LET PEOPLE KNOW WHAT YOU'RE DOING ya never know...
> On Nov 30, 2016, at 5:37 PM, iowaboy wrote:
>
>
> Glen,
> That is a lot more wing to build but a neat plane!
> I hope you post some photos so we can see it.
> Mike Townsley
>
>
> glen wrote:
>> I'm building Chad willie's biplane version(originally a field mod). I widened
my fus to 30". It'll have about 250square feet of wing surface. Lift,anyone?additional
fus and center section weight penalty about 7pounds
>>
>>
>>> On Nov 29, 2016, at 8:09 AM, Steven Dortch wrote:
>>>
>>> Mike, the plane was designed by Mr Pietenpol for 1930s guys when the average
size was around 150-160 pounds. in the 1950s it increased to 170 and now the
FAA says an average male is 191.
>>>
>>> The plane will certainly fly with you in it weight wise, but The Air Camper
has about a foot longer wing span and can handle bigger engines. The list even
has a builder who is really big and he is building a single seat Air Camper.
>>>
>>>
>>> You might consider the long fuselage. and some of the other modifications for
bigger guys. My cockpit is the short fuselage and at 5'7" it is not overly
large.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Blue Skies,
>>> Steve D
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
> --------
> Serve the Lord with gladness,
> Mike
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=463605#463605
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "iowaboy" <miket(at)southslope.net> |
Wow Glen that is neat! It sounds like you are having a great time!
Mike
glen wrote:
> yes LOTS OF RIBS lots of turnbuckles for a bipe too. I can only imagine the noise
of the wind through all that wire. Lot different than my Cessna
> Different chord on bottom wing. 75% of top wing which is normal pietenpol.
Fun project so far
> I do auto restoration and build street rods for a living so a more vintage
style suits me. Speaking of vintage, I got a call from a EEA friend about an
opportunity at his workplace. I walked into the shop... a stack of wing ribs,
spars wings in various stages of completion, a round engine in a corner on
a stand another over there. Long story short: I get to build airplanes for a living,
Stearman biplanes. So much for retirement next spring! KEEP BUILDING,
FLYING AND LET PEOPLE KNOW WHAT YOU'RE DOING ya never know...
>
> > On Nov 30, 2016, at 5:37 PM, iowaboy wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > Glen,
> > That is a lot more wing to build but a neat plane!
> > I hope you post some photos so we can see it.
> > Mike Townsley
> >
> >
> > glen wrote:
> > > I'm building Chad willie's biplane version(originally a field mod). I widened
my fus to 30". It'll have about 250square feet of wing surface. Lift,anyone?additional
fus and center section weight penalty about 7pounds
> > >
> > >
> > >> On Nov 29, 2016, at 8:09 AM, Steven Dortch wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Mike, the plane was designed by Mr Pietenpol for 1930s guys when the average
size was around 150-160 pounds. in the 1950s it increased to 170 and now
the FAA says an average male is 191.
> > >>
> > >> The plane will certainly fly with you in it weight wise, but The Air Camper
has about a foot longer wing span and can handle bigger engines. The list
even has a builder who is really big and he is building a single seat Air Camper.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> You might consider the long fuselage. and some of the other modifications
for bigger guys. My cockpit is the short fuselage and at 5'7" it is not overly
large.
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> Blue Skies,
> > >> Steve D
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> >
> >
> > --------
> > Serve the Lord with gladness,
> > Mike
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=463605#463605
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
--------
Serve the Lord with gladness,
Mike
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=463610#463610
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Large breasts and open cockpit, bad idea? |
| From: | "aviken" <aviken(at)hughes.net> |
I was just wondering what it would take to get a response to a question here.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=463723#463723
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Large breasts and open cockpit, bad idea? |
| From: | "Andre B. Charvet" <bencharvet(at)gmail.com> |
Have you searched the archives? Lol.
aviken wrote:
>
>I was just wondering what it would take to get a response to a question here.
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=463723#463723
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Large breasts and open cockpit, bad idea? |
| From: | Kip Gardner <kipgohio1957(at)gmail.com> |
Well, I havent posted in about 2 years or more, and that got my attention!
Kip Gardner
> On Dec 5, 2016, at 8:43 AM, aviken wrote:
>
>
> I was just wondering what it would take to get a response to a question here.
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=463723#463723
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Large breasts and open cockpit, bad idea? |
No!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gerrit-Jan Kaal <gjhkaal(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Large breasts and open cockpit, bad idea? |
ROFL
On Mon, Dec 5, 2016 at 2:43 PM, aviken wrote:
>
> I was just wondering what it would take to get a response to a question
> here.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=463723#463723
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ben Charvet <bencharvet(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Large breasts and open cockpit, bad idea? |
Large butts in the front seat can cause gross weight problems and interfere w
ith rudder control.
Sent from my iPhone
> On Dec 5, 2016, at 9:15 AM, Steven Dortch wrot
e:
>
> No!
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Large breasts and open cockpit, bad idea? |
| From: | "WannaPiet" <mmrally(at)nifty.com> |
Haha, yes that should definitely get some responses! 8)
Mark Stanley
--------
Fly a Piet a day, keep the doctor away
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=463730#463730
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Large breasts and open cockpit, bad idea? |
Who told the funny story about the older lady screaming as he began taxing.
Yelling "I'm not that kind of woman!" because his feet were rubbing on her
elevators!
I keep touting this site as the better place to get more in depth info. I
really like the facebook site, but get more technical discussions here.
Blue Skies,
Steve D.
On Mon, Dec 5, 2016 at 8:42 AM, Ben Charvet wrote:
> Large butts in the front seat can cause gross weight problems and
> interfere with rudder control.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Dec 5, 2016, at 9:15 AM, Steven Dortch
> wrote:
>
> No!
>
>
--
Blue Skies,
Steve D
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | OT fly in community |
Dear Pietenpeople, I am asking for your prayers and blessings. After a year
and a half of being retired from the Army, my wife and I have made an offer
on a house and hangar at a fly-in community.
It is just about the best fit possible. My wife is getting what she wants
and I am getting what I want.
It is looking promising. The owner wants to sell, We want to buy and we
have a very good real estate agent. The price is good for us. The owner is
making a profit. We could be moving in by mid January if it all goes well.
Wish me well!
--
Blue Skies,
Steve D
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | woodflier <woodflier(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: OT fly in community |
Steve, sounds like a perfect solution for all. Hope it works out for you. That's
a dream I've always had but probably won't be fulfilled - no complaints though.
Where is this Shangri-La located?
Matt Paxton
-----Original Message-----
From: Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Mon, Dec 5, 2016 11:06 am
Subject: Pietenpol-List: OT fly in community
Dear Pietenpeople, I am asking for your prayers and blessings. After a year and
a half of being retired from the Army, my wife and I have made an offer on a
house and hangar at a fly-in community.
It is just about the best fit possible. My wife is getting what she wants and I
am getting what I want.
It is looking promising. The owner wants to sell, We want to buy and we have a
very good real estate agent. The price is good for us. The owner is making a profit.
We could be moving in by mid January if it all goes well.
Wish me well!
--
Blue Skies,
Steve D
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "(null) raykrause" <raykrause(at)frontiernet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: OT fly in community |
May your wishes be fulfilled!
Ray Krause
Sent from my iPad
> On Dec 5, 2016, at 8:05 AM, Steven Dortch wrote:
>
> Dear Pietenpeople, I am asking for your prayers and blessings. After a year and
a half of being retired from the Army, my wife and I have made an offer on
a house and hangar at a fly-in community.
>
> It is just about the best fit possible. My wife is getting what she wants and
I am getting what I want.
>
> It is looking promising. The owner wants to sell, We want to buy and we have
a very good real estate agent. The price is good for us. The owner is making a
profit. We could be moving in by mid January if it all goes well.
>
> Wish me well!
>
> --
> Blue Skies,
> Steve D
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Pietn38b(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: OT fly in community |
Did the same thing last March. Wife and I love it. Hope all goes well
for You!!!!.
Jim Ballew
In a message dated 12/5/2016 10:06:17 A.M. Central Standard Time,
steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com writes:
Dear Pietenpeople, I am asking for your prayers and blessings. After a
year and a half of being retired from the Army, my wife and I have made an
offer on a house and hangar at a fly-in community.
It is just about the best fit possible. My wife is getting what she wants
and I am getting what I want.
It is looking promising. The owner wants to sell, We want to buy and we
have a very good real estate agent. The price is good for us. The owner is
making a profit. We could be moving in by mid January if it all goes well.
Wish me well!
--
Blue Skies,
Steve D
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: OT fly in community |
| From: | "aviken" <aviken(at)hughes.net> |
I hope your deal works out for you and your wife.
Thank you for your service and Merry Christmas.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=463743#463743
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: OT fly in community |
| From: | "PatrickW" <pwhoyt(at)yahoo.com> |
Keep us updated on your adventure!
- Pat
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=463744#463744
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Large breasts and open cockpit, bad idea? |
| From: | "TriScout" <apfelcyber(at)yahoo.com> |
Can you repost the photo?....didn't see the pic for this post
--------
KLNC
A65-8
N2308C
Slick 4330's
AN Hardware
Airframe 778TT
W72CK-42 Sensenich
Standard Factory GN-1
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=463753#463753
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: OT fly in community |
| From: | "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
Steve; best wishes for a favorable outcome on the possible move to a fly-in community.
Every pilot's dream! Soon after we moved to Oregon in the early 1990s
I became aware of a nice fly-in community up the highway from me, Independence
Airpark up near Salem. That's where I met Ernie Moreno, and it was in Ernie's
hangar that I first got to see and sit in a Piet. I've always wanted to live
on an airpark but my wife likes trees in the yard. Maybe not a good match
with an airpark, sort of like Kenny's open cockpits and big... big... well, big
twin prop spinners.
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power, 72x36 Culver prop
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=463763#463763
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: OT fly in community |
Thanks Oscar, I am about to finalize our offer for a Hangar and Home at
Heritage Airfield just South of New Berlin, Texas.
BTW 3000 ft grass runway.
Blue Skies,
Steve D.
On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 11:29 PM, taildrags wrote:
>
> Steve; best wishes for a favorable outcome on the possible move to a
> fly-in community. Every pilot's dream! Soon after we moved to Oregon in
> the early 1990s I became aware of a nice fly-in community up the highway
> from me, Independence Airpark up near Salem. That's where I met Ernie
> Moreno, and it was in Ernie's hangar that I first got to see and sit in a
> Piet. I've always wanted to live on an airpark but my wife likes trees in
> the yard. Maybe not a good match with an airpark, sort of like Kenny's
> open cockpits and big... big... well, big twin prop spinners.
>
> --------
> Oscar Zuniga
> Medford, OR
> Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
> A75 power, 72x36 Culver prop
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=463763#463763
>
>
--
Blue Skies,
Steve D
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: OT fly in community |
| From: | "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
Steve;
Considering that 8T8 has a 3000' hard-surface runway and that I was easily able
to operate 41CC off of about half of that, you should have no problem operating
your Air Camper "hybrid" off of 3000' of grass! In fact, as you know, Craig
and I were easily able to operate 41CC off of the grass between the fence on
the north side of the San Geronimo property and the EAA clubhouse. If Google
Earth's ruler tool is to be believed, that's less than 800 ft and that's with
having to clear the trees along the fenceline on final. I used to approach at
about 55 MPH over the trees, kick it into a slip till I could count the blades
of dry grass individually, then kick out the slip till the nose was pointing
between the paved runway and the clubhouse, then 'shhhhh' it onto the grass.
Rollout back onto the paved surface with power, taxi to our hangar. I could
do it in my sleep, almost (with NO crosswind!). With a crosswind, every time
the plane would get abeam the clear space between a long row of hangars, it was
time to dance on the rudder pedals again! What great memories, and I hope
you are able to make many such new memories at your new home base.
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power, 72x36 Culver prop
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=463777#463777
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "(null) raykrause" <raykrause(at)frontiernet.net> |
Help,
OK, guys. As expected, my SkyScout is a little tail heavy with the wood prop. I
may be able to fix that if I go with a metal prop on the A-65. What size have
you folks with the A-65 been using? My A-65 is newly overhauled and should be
pretty strong running. The empty weight is now 646 lbs, with the wood prop....maybe
15-20 lbs more with the metal prop. Remember, it is just a one-holer!
The engine has the tapered shaft, if that makes any difference?
Anyone with a good metal prop of the right size for sale?
I would appreciate any help!
Thanks,
Ray Krause
Sent from my iPad
> On Nov 29, 2016, at 8:30 PM, (null) raykrause wrote:
>
> Mike,
>
> I got two of the jury struts on today, but lost a couple fittings for the other
two? Maybe my wife hid them? It's amazing what I can lose over a three year
build time! It pays to build faster, or be more organized.
>
> I hope to have some CG numbers within a week, or so. Now that my "friend" , Scott,
threw it on my shoulders! Maybe he will have to confirm my numbers before
I publish them? Scott is the EAA Councilor for the Pietenpols. He has inspected
mine once and gave me a few pointers that I followed. He is a real source
of great information on all things Pietenpol. When he speaks, we should all
listen. He has test flown several Pietenpols for builders, if I remember correctly.
>
> Stay tuned,
>
> Ray Krause
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On Nov 29, 2016, at 12:20 PM, AircamperN11MS wrote:
>>
>>
>> Mike,
>>
>> Ray is correct. I have flown both the "T" and "A" powered Scouts. I probably
weighed about 190 lbs when I did fly them. The "A" flew very nicely and was
like a sports car. The "T" was very under-powered and I didn't get more than
about 20' AGL since I took off from about 2850' MSL. The "T" flew like it was
tail heavy. The "A" was balanced perfectly.
>>
>> It was 20 years ago. I weighed as much as 232 lbs flying my Cont. powered Aircamper.
This is not a problem. I have since lost 40 lbs and back down to the
190 lb range again. My plane is much happier now.
>>
>> Ray could probably give you the best pilot weight range since he has completed
the most recent SkyScout. Yes Ray, I just threw you under the same bus. We
may as well stick together.
>>
>> Conclusion here is that you should pay very close attention and build a light
airplane. Forrest Lovely mentioned the other day that the "A" powered Piet
weighed 593 lbs after he rebuilt it. This is the one I flew. You can probably
build a Scout to work with your pilot weight. Just compute the CG multiple times
during the build process.
>>
>> --------
>> Scott Liefeld
>> Flying N11MS since March 1972
>> Steel Tube
>> C-85-12
>> Wire Wheels
>> Brodhead in 1996
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=463508#463508
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Comcast <4rcsimmons(at)comcast.net> |
I'm just thinking outside the box.
I'm a Piet wanna be.
FWI, if engine performance is what is desired with the prop you have, adding weight
by changing props would alter 2 items weight on the nose and thrust performance.
(??)
Could you trial the balance concern with weights opposed to the actual prop?
Just a thought!
- Rich
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com> |
My a65 was super anemic with a sensenich 72x42 wood prop, which is generally good
for most folks. Only turned 1900 static. Put a metal sensenich 72x44 and
it flies like a totally different, and better, plane. Turns 2350 static.
Props and engines seem to be very individual... But that's what worked for me.
Tools
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=463835#463835
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "(null) raykrause" <raykrause(at)frontiernet.net> |
Thanks for the thoughts. I'm in the process of adding and moving weights aro
und. I have some barbel weights with a hole that actually fits over the shaf
t that sticks through the propeller. If I get time, I will do that this afte
rnoon. I like the advise to add weight ti the firewall rather than change pr
ops.
I knew I would be close on the W/B, as calculated before covering the plane.
So the wing is slanted back 5.5". But on the Scout, that makes the leading
edge about even with the firewall! So adding weight to the firewall may no
t do much good. Adding weight to the front of the engine (the prop) would r
eally help. This is an interesting problem! Maybe I'm not doing this correc
tly?
Ray
Sent from my iPad
> On Dec 11, 2016, at 6:27 AM, Comcast <4rcsimmons(at)comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
> I'm just thinking outside the box.
>
> I'm a Piet wanna be.
>
> FWI, if engine performance is what is desired with the prop you have, addi
ng weight by changing props would alter 2 items weight on the nose and thrus
t performance. (??)
>
> Could you trial the balance concern with weights opposed to the actual pro
p?
>
> Just a thought!
>
> - Rich
>
==========================
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>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Clif Dawson" <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca> |
Just make one of those round "bullet" spinners from heavy metal
and bolt it to your prop hub.
Clif
I will beg you for advice, your reply will be concise, and I will listen
very nicely
and then go out and do exactly what I want. :-)
So adding weight to the firewall may not do much good. Adding weight to
the front of the engine (the prop) would really help. This is an interesting
problem! Maybe I'm not doing this correctly?
Ray
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com> |
Add lightness tot he rear of the plane. Make sure you have used the
shortest screws you can in the tail section. Take the extra links off of
your chains on the tailwheel. It will take pounds up front to make up for
ounces back near the tail.
What about personal weight loss? (That is what I need to do. 20 pounds
would be the easiet!) Take out the rear seat pads. move any radios forward
and use a remote?
Can you: add a starter? Alternator? Mount a Faux machinegun up front? mount
a battery as far forward as possible. Use more and heavier weight oil? Use
a spinner that looks like a machinegun? make the Cowling as fancy and
heavier as you want? Add a cockpit heat system to the exhaust? Or even make
a place to add lead weights to the front of the motor or motor mounts. This
sounds like a great excuse to put on a bigger engine with all the geegaws.
As a light infantryman, we carried everything on our back. We always threw
the joker out of the deck. We also cut the cards in half. I cut my sleeping
pat down to 10 inches wide and 4 ft long. Just enough to be under my body
and nothing else. If we could snuggle and it was not too cold we did not
take a sleeping bag, but carried a very light poncho liner. My point is
make sure you SAFELY add lightness to the rear as much as possible before
you put weight up front.
Blue Skies,
Steve D.
On Sun, Dec 11, 2016 at 9:43 PM, Clif Dawson wrote:
> Just make one of those round "bullet" spinners from heavy metal
> and bolt it to your prop hub.
>
> Clif
> I will beg you for advice, your reply will be concise, and I will listen
> very nicely
> and then go out and do exactly what I want. :-)
>
>
> So adding weight to the firewall may not do much good. Adding weight to
> the front of the engine (the prop) would really help. This is an
> interesting problem! Maybe I'm not doing this correctly?
>
> Ray
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> --------------------
>
>
--
Blue Skies,
Steve D
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "(null) raykrause" <raykrause(at)frontiernet.net> |
Cliff,
Thanks for the suggestion. I'm looking into the spinner idea as I have a good friend
who loves to make such things! I did some weighing today that should give
me a good idea on what weight spinners might work. I will keep you updated.
Thanks,
Ray
Sent from my iPad
> On Dec 11, 2016, at 7:43 PM, Clif Dawson wrote:
>
> Just make one of those round "bullet" spinners from heavy metal
> and bolt it to your prop hub.
>
> Clif
> I will beg you for advice, your reply will be concise, and I will listen very
nicely
> and then go out and do exactly what I want. :-)
>
>
>
>
> So adding weight to the firewall may not do much good. Adding weight to the
front of the engine (the prop) would really help. This is an interesting problem!
Maybe I'm not doing this correctly?
>
> Ray
>
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Please Read - This Is Safety Related And Is Very Important |
| From: | "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com> |
Some of you may know that we have a forum for the builders and flyers of the Pietenpol
aircraft and Corvair engine combination. It is called the Pietvair Forum.
Recently one of our members, Bill Reynolds, posted a lengthy discussion about
an accident that we have all heard about, the crash and subsequent death of
famed aviator, Ron Alexander. Bill knew Ron quite well, and so this discussion
is not an abstract discussion about some guy, but rather it is the reporting
of the circumstances surrounding the death of a good friend. Bill felt that
it was important to warn our members about the potential for a deadly choice in
building their airplanes. I asked Bill if he would mind if I shared it with
this group, and he graciously allowed me to do so. It is safety-related, and it
is important, so I thought that it should be shared with this group as well.
Take from it what you will. But I hope that it causes all of us to think through
some of our choices. It cant happen to me is an unacceptable premise in construction
choices.
Bills post is below-
It is with great sadness that I must report the error of using hard lines inappropriately
to plumb fuel systems. On 17 November of this year, we lost a great
aviator and friend, Ron Alexander. Ron was a veteran of the Vietnam war during
which he flew C130s and was a recipient of the distinguished flying cross. Ron
also flew for Eastern and Delta Airlines from which he retired. Ron was flying
a recently restored 1918 Curtiss Jenny which belonged to the Candler Field
museum which He founded.
The cause of the accident was an incorrectly repaired wood propeller which failed
shortly after takeoff. I suppose this post could be about propellers but that
is not what killed him. What killed him was twofold. The first of which was
the decision to restore the Jenny to original specifications. The second was
the hard plumbed fuel system that was installed in keeping with the first decision.
The preliminary investigation revealed that the violent vibrations resulting
from the failed prop broke the hard fuel line spraying raw fuel all over
the engine. Unfortunately, the majority of the airframe was engulfed in flames
within seconds. The Jenny came to rest within feet of a suitable landing place.
Neither Ron nor his passenger escaped. Other than the engine and empennage
there was nothing left of the wreckage. The accident happened at my home airport,
so I had the opportunity to fly over the accident. From what I could tell,
I believe that absent the fire, Ron would be alive today. William Wynne has been
preaching against the incorrect use of hardline plumbing since his accident
and subsequent injuries and now this lesson has been driven even deeper into
my mind by the death of my friend. Rons passenger that day was Larry Enlow, Mr.
Enlow was an FAA antique airplane examiner from Florida. I did not know Mr.
Enlow, but I understand that he was a well known and respected aviator in his
community.
The propeller in question was a large diameter wood propeller with copper leading
edge attached to a Hispano-Suiza on the nose of a 1918 Curtiss Jenny. An inspection
of the propeller months before the accident revealed a crack in the copper
on the leading edge. The propeller was returned to the manufacturer (not
Sensenich) for repair. The repair consisted of rivets on either side of the crack.
On climb out the propeller separated sending a nearly 3 foot piece of the
prop into a residential area of the air park. Post accident inspection revealed
that the crack had migrated into the wood from the copper or perhaps the other
way around, we may never know. I was told that the investigator did note
that the crack in the wood was not recent as the wood inside the crack was discolored.
I do not know enough about this kind of stuff to comment, but I wonder
if it is possible that the engine/propeller combination could produce a harmonic
resonance strong enough to cause such a failure? People that knew airplanes
including one A&P that rode in the accident aircraft said that it did vibrate
considerably.
--------
Semper Fi,
Terry Hand
Athens, GA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=463880#463880
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Please Read - This Is Safety Related And Is Very Important |
Terry, Thanks for posting that, Hard though it is to read. When I read
William Wynne's posting pleading that we replace the hard lines running
from the wing tank down, and describing his incident, I went to a local
place that made braided flexible lines for race cars. It was not as cheap
as I would have hoped but it is the smart thing to do.
Now, Having read this, I am going to evaluate the couple of places where I
have hard line in the system. If needed, I will replace the lines.
It is a hard thing to have to learn through flying accidents!
Blue Skies,
Steve D
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Please Read - This Is Safety Related And Is Very Important |
| From: | "womenfly2" <Love2Fly.KAP(at)gmail.com> |
Chapter 14, Aircraft Fuel System
There is nothing incorrectly done with the Jenny's fuel system if installed as
original. Any wood propeller with metal rivet sheathing should be inspected regularly
and at pre-flight for cracks, discoloration, lose rivets, etc. and any
repairs to be done by a qualified repair shop.
KAP
--------
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=463907#463907
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Please Read - This Is Safety Related And Is Very Important |
| From: | "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com> |
Keri Ann,
I guess that you misunderstood my reason for the post. Did Ron Alexander do anything
illegal or not in accordance with any FARs? Of course not. But Bill Reynolds
and I do think that the desire to "keep it original" was a contributing factor.
Would you not agree that just because my state allows an owner of a car built before
seat belts were standard equipment to not have the install them, and risk
can be better managed by installing them. I didn't use the word safe. I used
the term "manage risk". And that is why Bill Reynolds wrote what he did, and
I reposted.
The chances of an experimental aircraft act having an off field landing at some
point are fairly good, no matter how well the airplane is built. Ask William
Wynne if he wished he had had braided fuel lines instead of hard lines in his
accident, and ask Kevin Purtee if he regretted spending the money on braided fuel
lines that prevented fuel from escaping in his accident. I think you know
both answers.
As a good friend likes to say, "Life is full of choices." We can all choose which
types of fuel lines to use. Bill and I just want to point out the potential
results of certain choices. You may see it otherwise and that is your right.
--------
Semper Fi,
Terry Hand
Athens, GA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=463909#463909
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Please Read - This Is Safety Related And Is Very Important |
| From: | "womenfly2" <Love2Fly.KAP(at)gmail.com> |
I fully understood your reason for posting. What I read in the post was the fuel
line [system] being the major factor in the fatalities, when the issue was the
propeller. The fuel line was a contributing factor after the fact.
I just wanted to point out that the Jenny is a safe aircraft and so is its fuel
system for the time it was built. Could it have been better, sure, improved in
the rebuilt, sure, but it was to be rebuilt as original ... a choice.
Every Piet builder picks and choose the amount of risk they are comfortable with
in building their plane, conscious or unconscious of the effect.
So its a good recommendation to look at your fuel system setup, but also to look
at all the items one uses in their build from the wood, glue, to and including
the finish. One change could be the difference between you walking away or
not. Now your proficiency as a pilot, another subject.
Thanks for post it, makes one think.
Keri-Ann
--------
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=463940#463940
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Please Read - This Is Safety Related And Is Very Important |
| From: | "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com> |
Keri Ann,
Now I see YOUR point.
The propeller appears to have been THE cause, and it does bring up a discussion
of propeller choices - new, used, composite, solid wood, laminated wood, professionally
made, DIY.
Many choices, and we all need to think through those choices and what their possible
outcomes could be. I think the thing that I took away, is this - the crack
in the copper appears to have come from the inside of the prop out, not the
other way around. Filing that in the memory bank in case I ever come on that
situation in my own building and flying.
--------
Semper Fi,
Terry Hand
Athens, GA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=463944#463944
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Airport Courtesy Cars App Closing? |
| From: | "gbrasch" <gmbrasch(at)gmail.com> |
IMPORTANT! If you are a user of the app version of Airport Courtesy Cars, please
view it for an important message about the possible closure of the app, or view
the page here:
https://www.airportcourtesycars.com/app-status.html
--------
Glenn Brasch
RV-9A Flying
Medevac Helicopter Pilot (Ret)
Owner, "Airport Courtesy Cars" Smart Phone App
and www.airportcourtesycars.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=463999#463999
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Please Read - This Is Safety Related And Is Very Important |
| From: | "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
There have been some outstanding, beautiful Air Campers built and featured over
the years where the builder has elected to use period (1920-30s) tools and materials
to build the airplane. Resorcinol glue, hard wire tail braces with wound-wire
ferrules, babbitt bearings, brazed tubing connections, wrapped and soldered
aircraft cable ends, doped cotton fabric, old steam gauges. Where do we
draw the line, knowing that there are more modern, better, more reliable, and
certainly more easily obtainable materials and methods available to us? Well,
as Keri Ann points out, it's the builder's choice.
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power, 72x36 Culver prop
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=464029#464029
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Please Read - This Is Safety Related And Is Very |
Important
IT IS the builder's choice. But I would recommend making some updates for
safety. IE shoulder harnesses, Flexible fuel lines, Pad Sharp edges in the
cockpit, ETC. Even those who judge antique aircraft usually don't ding the
builder for adding safety.
Y'all Be safe out there!
Steve D.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Please Read - This Is Safety Related And Is Very Important |
| From: | "TriScout" <apfelcyber(at)yahoo.com> |
How about airbags? Back when I first bought/assembled my GN-1, I talked to a mechanic
about getting it annualed and signed off. He said that he can do that and
also have airbags (just like cars have) installed in my plane. Then he asked
if I have the maintenance manual for the plane. That's when I made like a tree
and got out of there. He was accustomed to working on late model Beech products.
The first red flag was that his shop was too clean and shiny.
Larry
--------
KLNC
A65-8
N2308C
Slick 4330's
AN Hardware
Airframe 778TT
W72CK-42 Sensenich
Standard Factory GN-1
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=464040#464040
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Please Read - This Is Safety Related And Is Very Important |
| From: | "tkreiner" <tkreiner(at)gmail.com> |
It will be interesting to see whether the final NTSB report will mention anything
about the engine mounts, and or subsequent damage to the firewall-forward portion
of the aircraft. We already know the engine is (or was) an Hispano-Suiza
E-2, which weighed roughly 450 lbs, excluding the the radiator, and perhaps
additional accessories.
The propeller was a St. Croix, vintage unknown, however, as stated, was made of
laminated oak. Since pictures of the exact prop are difficult to find, only
an estimate can be made as to exact configuration of the prop, whether it had
straight blades, or scimitars. With an 8'3" length, losing roughly 3 feet of
blade was catastrophic. Three feet of 6" wide Oak by 1" thick - representative
of the section that separated (give or take), would have weighed roughly 7 lbs.
During takeoff, the engine would have been turning the full rated 1800 rpm (30
rps), and due to the instantaneous imbalance when the prop separated, the vibratory
forces would have ripped apart all firewall forward components, including
engine mounts, and ALL connections to the engine.
Would flexible tubing have held under those circumstances?
With the degree of imbalance, I doubt any form of light weight tubing, whether
solid or flexible, would have held for longer than a few seconds. At 30 rps,
shutting down the engine in time to prevent any damage at all would have been
improbable...
--------
Tom Kreiner
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=464041#464041
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Cox <rv10pro(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Please Read - This Is Safety Related And Is Very |
Important
Tom, it remains amazing to me how many people begin with "facts" pertinent
to an ongoing and active FAA/NTSB investigation. My efforts found the
report to be ERA17FA050. Few things stood out.
Years ago I became impressed with the Alexander Build Center and the Sport
Aviation Workshops that Ron did so much for. I consider myself a personal
friend of the manufacturer of the referenced propeller (now under
investigation). I am going to hold judgment. Much has been said about
rigid lines, to build or not to build to Original Standards and the results
which come from such personal decisions. Who more experienced that Ron and
his Front Seat Passenger to confirm the airworthiness (or Safety for
Flight) than these two experienced technicians and pilots.
Questions that I have were who was the FAA Safety Inspector in the Front
Seat (I don't need to know but he sure had lots of experience), the timing
of the accident 1809 hours (hopefully GMT) and not after sunset in
Georgia. Ron's exceptional workmanship and the 2013 Complete Restoration
should be important. Was this prop a Pietenpol 8'3" brought over by
someone for the specific Jenny JN4D with Hispano-Suiza E-2 engine? When
the copper leading edge was repaired on the prop, who was the last to do
such work?
I have lost one close friend to a fatal bad weld on his wing strut.
Several friends who chose to use Red RTV on the fuel line fittings of a
Vans aircraft and then that aircraft was lost here in Oregon.
Significant accidents like this remind me to be patient and to wait for the
Facts and the final release of report. Guesses and Monday Morning
quarterbacking does little more than to remind everyone that choices carry
responsibility and significant Risk. From the George Lucas movie *"Choose
Wisely"*. Burt Rutan says "Question everything don't ever try to justify
any action" - keep improving.
Prayers to Mr. Anderson's family and to the FAA Safety Inspector's too. Oh
what a heartfelt loss.
John Cox on the Left Coast
On Fri, Dec 16, 2016 at 2:26 PM, tkreiner wrote:
>
> It will be interesting to see whether the final NTSB report will mention
> anything about the engine mounts, and or subsequent damage to the
> firewall-forward portion of the aircraft. We already know the engine is
> (or was) an Hispano-Suiza E-2, which weighed roughly 450 lbs, excluding the
> the radiator, and perhaps additional accessories.
>
> The propeller was a St. Croix, vintage unknown, however, as stated, was
> made of laminated oak. Since pictures of the exact prop are difficult to
> find, only an estimate can be made as to exact configuration of the prop,
> whether it had straight blades, or scimitars. With an 8'3" length, losing
> roughly 3 feet of blade was catastrophic. Three feet of 6" wide Oak by 1"
> thick - representative of the section that separated (give or take), would
> have weighed roughly 7 lbs.
>
> During takeoff, the engine would have been turning the full rated 1800 rpm
> (30 rps), and due to the instantaneous imbalance when the prop separated,
> the vibratory forces would have ripped apart all firewall forward
> components, including engine mounts, and ALL connections to the engine.
>
> Would flexible tubing have held under those circumstances?
>
> With the degree of imbalance, I doubt any form of light weight tubing,
> whether solid or flexible, would have held for longer than a few seconds.
> At 30 rps, shutting down the engine in time to prevent any damage at all
> would have been improbable...
>
> --------
> Tom Kreiner
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=464041#464041
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Fuselage longerons, laminated? |
| From: | "Vincent Dunn" <vincentkdunn(at)yahoo.com> |
New builder here. I'd like to laminate two pieces of half inch western hemlock
together to create one inch square longerons. Feedback please.
--------
Vincent Dunn
Salem Oregon
vincentkdunn(at)yahoo.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=464069#464069
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fuselage longerons, laminated? |
| From: | "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca> |
Provided it is done correctly, laminated wood is as strong or stronger than a monolithic
piece of wood.
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=464071#464071
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: lamintated spar |
| From: | "Vincent Dunn" <vincentkdunn(at)yahoo.com> |
Hey Tom. Re your 2009 lam spar post. How did that work out? I'm thinking of laminating
two pieces of 6" by half inch together on the face then trimming to size.
Got any advice?
--------
Vincent Dunn
Salem Oregon
vincentkdunn(at)yahoo.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=464074#464074
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: lamintated spar |
| From: | "Vincent Dunn" <vincentkdunn(at)yahoo.com> |
Hey Tom. Re your 2009 lam spar post. How did that work out? I'm thinking of laminating
two pieces of 6" by half inch together on the face then trimming to size.
Got any advice?
--------
Vincent Dunn
Salem Oregon
vincentkdunn(at)yahoo.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=464075#464075
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Airport Courtesy Cars App Closing? |
| From: | "gbrasch" <gmbrasch(at)gmail.com> |
I am happy to report that thanks to donations, the site continues. View the donors or add your name by clicking here: https://www.airportcourtesycars.com/thank-you-donors-.html Thanks, Glenn
--------
Glenn Brasch
RV-9A Flying
Medevac Helicopter Pilot (Ret)
Owner, "Airport Courtesy Cars" Smart Phone App
and www.airportcourtesycars.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=464122#464122
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Please Read - This Is Safety Related And Is Very Important |
| From: | "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com> |
Well, I fear that I have created more heat than light in this thread. I am almost
sorry to have even shared it. My only goal was to point out what was likely
a contributing factor in the final outcome of this accident. And how it might
affect all of us builders and flyers if we make similar choices. Nothing more.
I sense that there are some forum members that are upset that this has been brought
up before any final report. Neither I, nor the original writer, are accusing
a man that was by all accounts, a great pilot and a great human being of anything
other than being human. The point of the thread was to emphasize that
we all need to think of our choices as we build and how they can affect us in
a worst case scenario.
FWIW, whether it was 3 feet of prop or only 30 inches of the leading edge, I can
only imagine that the assymetrical loads of that extremely unbalanced prop made
for a wild ride in that final descent.
--------
Semper Fi,
Terry Hand
Athens, GA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=464163#464163
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "iowaboy" <miket(at)southslope.net> |
A suggestion would be to make a new motor mount that would be longer so you would
move the weight of the engine and prop forward to help you weight and balance???
This way you don't add that much weight to the plane.
Now maybe that is not a good idea? I have heard of others who had other designs
who did this to help weight and balance.
Mike In Iowa
--------
Serve the Lord with gladness,
Mike
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=464199#464199
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "(null) raykrause" <raykrause(at)frontiernet.net> |
Mike,
You are absolutely correct. The problem with that is removing the engine, the making
of the mount, re-installing the engine, building a new cowling and painting
it. I am moving the wing back and checking on using a metal prop. Moving the
wing does the most good, even more than the motor mount....especially considering
the amount of work involved. All the calculations have been kinda fun.
Especially with Scott Liefeld's generous help and his putting me on the right
path.
But building a Piet is a journey to be enjoyed and not to rushed. I may end up
doing all of the above! It's too cold to fly it this time of the year, anyway!
And if I can't shake this lousy cold, I might lose ten lbs. off my butt?
Thanks for your suggestions....build'em light!
Ray Krause
Sent from my iPad
> On Dec 19, 2016, at 5:34 PM, iowaboy wrote:
>
>
> A suggestion would be to make a new motor mount that would be longer so you
would move the weight of the engine and prop forward to help you weight and balance???
This way you don't add that much weight to the plane.
>
> Now maybe that is not a good idea? I have heard of others who had other designs
who did this to help weight and balance.
>
> Mike In Iowa
>
> --------
> Serve the Lord with gladness,
> Mike
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=464199#464199
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fuselage longerons, laminated? |
| From: | "Vincent Dunn" <vincentkdunn(at)yahoo.com> |
Bill Church,
Thanks for your reply. When you say "done properly" do you mean there is a " by
the book" method for laminating? I'm completely unfamiliar. Is there a book or
reference material you'd suggest I study to lean about lamination methods? Thanks
again,
--------
Vincent Dunn
Salem Oregon
vincentkdunn(at)yahoo.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=464220#464220
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: lamintated spar |
| From: | "Vincent Dunn" <vincentkdunn(at)yahoo.com> |
Thanks, Paul. I think your pictures and description told me what I need to know.
Very excited by this information. It really helped me a great deal.
--------
Vincent Dunn
Salem Oregon
vincentkdunn(at)yahoo.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=464221#464221
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fuselage longerons, laminated? |
| From: | "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
Vincent: the EAA's "Wood Book" is a great place to read about woodworking techniques
including laminating, gluing, clamping, scarfing, and much more. If you
can wait, I'll be going to Salem on Jan. 10 and can take you my copy of the book...
it's just sitting on my shelf and I'd be happy to loan it to you. If you're
in more of a hurry than that, I'll also be happy to pop it in the mail to
you if you'll give me your address. I'm in Medford but I go to Salem once a
month for engineering board meetings.
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power, 72x36 Culver prop
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=464222#464222
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
Ray: my airplane originally flew with a metal prop so I'm sure there is something
in the logbooks about the prop size and weight. Corky would have had to do
a new W&B after the prop was changed to wood. If it would help you to have the
information on the weight difference, I can dig out the logbooks on 41CC and
see what I find there. Here's how it looked back then:
http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/NX41CC01.jpg
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power, 72x36 Culver prop
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=464223#464223
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: lamintated spar |
| From: | "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
Paul; interesting woodwork on those spars! I would be very curious to know how
that composite I-beam spar compares weight-wise to a solid spar and a routed
spar. It would be easy enough to weigh short pieces of each, say maybe 6" long,
to get an estimate of how much laminated spars weigh. By any chance did you
have any cutoffs from the ends of those spars, or did you make them to nearly
finished length?
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power, 72x36 Culver prop
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=464224#464224
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: one/three piece wing |
| From: | "Vincent Dunn" <vincentkdunn(at)yahoo.com> |
Check out Paul Donahue's pictures posted today(12/20) on the thread "laminated
spars". This seems like a good alternative to scarfing spar sections together.
A person could make a laminated spar the full length of a single wing design
that way.
--------
Vincent Dunn
Salem Oregon
vincentkdunn(at)yahoo.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=464225#464225
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: one/three piece wing |
| From: | "USMC20C" <USMC20C(at)yahoo.com> |
Are you out of PGD by chance?
[quote="paradox4u2(at)yahoo.com"]Hey guys,
Appreciate the response on the wing dilemma. Just to answer a few questions; space
is not a problem. I fortunately have an old WW II hanger for a work shop
(in the back) so I've got plenty of room. I work nights at the airport and I work
on the Piet at night at work. Just a perk of flying medevac at night with
your base next to the hanger.
So I guess I'm a night owl.
It appears that most choose the three piece wing due to space issues but I didn't
know if there were some other advantages besides the fact that you can trailer
it easier. I'm planning on the one piece wing unless someone can convince
me otherwise. Of course, when I get to the spar scarf issues, I may change my
mind.
Anyhoo, thanks for the input.
Looking forward to the endeavor!
Dallas
> [b]
--------
Respectfully,
Craig C
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=464231#464231
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fuselage longerons, laminated? |
| From: | "Pocono John" <tinmotion(at)yahoo.com> |
Check here: http://content.aviation-safety-bureau.com/allmembers/ac-43-13-1b/ac-43-13-1b.php
--------
John
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=464239#464239
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "(null) raykrause" <raykrause(at)frontiernet.net> |
Oscar,
Thanks for the offer! I know the difference in weights between a wood and metal
prop of similar size, so I can make the calculations. I managed to move the
wing back another 1.5" and will see what that does. I weighed it today, will see
how the math compares to the real thing. I'm making progress! Hope I don't
have to use a metal prop or extra weights. Maybe a heavy "spinner"? It just takes
time, hood I'm not in a hurry.
Thanks,
Ray
Sent from my iPad
> On Dec 20, 2016, at 8:06 PM, taildrags wrote:
>
>
> Ray: my airplane originally flew with a metal prop so I'm sure there is something
in the logbooks about the prop size and weight. Corky would have had to
do a new W&B after the prop was changed to wood. If it would help you to have
the information on the weight difference, I can dig out the logbooks on 41CC
and see what I find there. Here's how it looked back then:
>
> http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/NX41CC01.jpg
>
> --------
> Oscar Zuniga
> Medford, OR
> Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
> A75 power, 72x36 Culver prop
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=464223#464223
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fuselage longerons, laminated? |
| From: | "JimP" <j.petersen32(at)yahoo.com> |
I laminated a pair of pre-formed lower longerons for my fuselage mockup because
I didnt want to deal with the bending operation. Each one was a sandwich of (3)
0.333 thick x 1.5 wide strips. I found this 3-strip bundle was very flexible
I was easily able to clamp it in its final shape on the fuselage template (the
wet glue even seemed to facilitate by acting like a lubricant!). When removed
from the mold it retained its shape with almost no spring-back. On the table
saw I had no difficulty in cleaning up the sides to bring it down to 1 wide.
This was only a pine/Titebond III mockup, but I found it remarkably easy to do,
and strong & stiff. I felt it greatly simplified the task of building up the
fuselage sides because I didnt have to fight with the pieces. On the down side,
I had to use every clamp I owned, and then some to make sure there were no
gaps anywhere. Jim
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=464246#464246
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/fuselage_mockup_copy_599.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fuselage longerons, laminated? |
| From: | "Vincent Dunn" <vincentkdunn(at)yahoo.com> |
Oscar:
Thanks for the book loan offer. I accept! I've read many of your posts and it's
nice to know there's another Piet builder not so far away. There's a nice little
restaurant on the field at KSLE. Let me know when you're coming to town and
I'll be happy to buy us lunch or dinner.
JimP,
Great pix! I am also building a mock-up fuselage (as recommended by Tony Bengilis).
I've also thought about being able to laminate the lower longerons without
steaming first.
Thanks again,
--------
Vincent Dunn
Salem Oregon
vincentkdunn(at)yahoo.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=464261#464261
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Burkholder" <born2fly(at)abcmailbox.net> |
| Subject: | Fuel Tank Straps |
Hi All. I am wondering what thickness of stainless steel people used for
their nose fuel tank straps? I have a bunch of .016 that will be leftover
from my firewall, is this material too thin?
Thanks
Charles Burkholder
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: one/three piece wing |
| From: | "aviken" <aviken(at)hughes.net> |
I would build the one piece wing if I had the room, if I had it to do over.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=464275#464275
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: lamintated spar |
| From: | "Lostman" <howhypno(at)hotmail.com> |
Do you plan to follow the same process for the wing spars?
How about scarfing in pieces so that each laminate of fir isn't full length? I
personally don't see an issue with this as long as the joints are staggered and
scarfed 1:12 ratio like they should be.
Great work, it give me an idea for my upcoming build as well.
--------
I own a Teenie Two, remnants of an Avid, a KR2, hang glider and paraglider as well
as my 1997 Pietenpol Air Camper. I'm also scratch building a Sonerai IIL.
As a CFII/MEI I love sharing the gift of flight with just about anyone that will
fly with me.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=464284#464284
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rebuilding plus questions about elevator cable tension |
| From: | "Lostman" <howhypno(at)hotmail.com> |
Michael, you are correct about Duane being the builder. I'm pretty sure I mentioned
that in one of the first posts. He now lives up in Salt Lake City. I met
him this summer the same week that I purchased the Pietenpol. He is certainly
a nice gentleman.
I hadn't realized that Steve was the one that started this forum, although I'm
not surprised from what I've heard about him as well.
The plane still has the Subaru engine on it (well again actually) and runs like
a top. Just need to finish a few loose ends and remount wings to have it close
to flying again. Obviously I will look everything else over one final time as
well.
Thanks for the post.
--------
I own a Teenie Two, remnants of an Avid, a KR2, hang glider and paraglider as well
as my 1997 Pietenpol Air Camper. I'm also scratch building a Sonerai IIL.
As a CFII/MEI I love sharing the gift of flight with just about anyone that will
fly with me.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=464285#464285
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Cold Weather Piet |
| From: | "Lostman" <howhypno(at)hotmail.com> |
It looks to me like the front cockpit canopy has a hinge on the left side as well
as down the middle. Making it fold completely to the left side. The rear one
is a big perplexing although I have seen a few canopies like that you can just
take off completely and then latch down when you put it into place.
Interesting idea. I've been thinking of building something to enclose mine and
add heat. Of course I'll have to get it flying first.
I remember a couple weeks ago running across some pictures of someone that is building
a beautiful wood strip raised turtledeck and canopy for their Air Camper.
Does anyone remember seeing this? It's actually how I found this thread while
searching for it.
--------
I own a Teenie Two, remnants of an Avid, a KR2, hang glider and paraglider as well
as my 1997 Pietenpol Air Camper. I'm also scratch building a Sonerai IIL.
As a CFII/MEI I love sharing the gift of flight with just about anyone that will
fly with me.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=464286#464286
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Cold Weather Piet |
| From: | "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com> |
Lost man,
I think that you are referring to Paul Donahue, aka "nightmare".
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=460805&highlight=#460805
--------
Semper Fi,
Terry Hand
Athens, GA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=464298#464298
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | 2016 List of Contributors |
Dear Listers,
The 2016 Matronics Email List and Forum Fund Raiser officially ended a couple of
weeks ago and it's time that I published this year's List of Contributors.
It is the people on this list that directly make these Email Lists and Forums
possible! Their generous
Contributions keep the servers and Internet connection up and running!
You can still show your support this year and pick up a great gift at the same
time. The Contribution Web Site is fast, easy, and secure:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or, by dropping a personal check in the mail to:
Matt Dralle / Matronics
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
I also want to thank Andy, Bob, George, and Jon for their generous support through
the supply of many great gifts this year!! These guys have some excellent
products and I encourage you to visit their respective web sites:
Andy Gold - The Builder's Bookstore - http://www.buildersbooks.com
Bob Nucklolls - AeroElectric - http://www.aeroelectric.com
George Race - Race Consulting - http://www.mrrace.com
Jon Croke - HomebuiltHELP - http://www.homebuilthelp.com
And finally, I'm proud to present The 2016 Fund Raiser List of Contributors:
http://www.matronics.com/loc/2016.html
Thank you again to everyone that made a Contribution this year!!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List & Forum Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 2016 List of Contributors |
| From: | "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
Yesss-!!! I'm the tail gunner again this year! I'm the last person on the contributor
list (just barely beat out Malcolm Zirges).
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power, 72x36 Culver prop
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=464379#464379
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Cold Weather Piet |
| From: | "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
Nothing better to do on a cold winter's day but to examine the photos of that canopy
and try to figure out how the cockpits are accessed. I've thought about
several possibilities for both canopies.
The front canopy may be flat plastic that is simply wrapped over the tubular framework.
If it's hinged up along the middle of the top, it could be held up flat
to the underside of the wing while the pax climbs in, then the bottom latched
in place or a hinge pin slipped in if it's a piano hinge.
The rear canopy is more baffling. As Bill observes, there is clearly a notch in
the aft edge to allow it to slide part-way over the antenna. If the lower edges
of the canopy are on drawer-slide type tracks, it could slide back enough
to allow entry, but I don't think that notch would allow it to go back very far
over the antenna.
Currently registered to George Lockhart in Pugwash, Nova Scotia... apparently with
a beautiful view across Northumberland Strait to Prince Edward Island. Probably
need an engine warmer up there ;o)
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power, 72x36 Culver prop
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=464419#464419
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fuselage longerons, laminated? |
| From: | "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca> |
Hi Vincent,
My comment was mainly in reference to the type of adhesive used for the lamination.
Different adhesives require specific conditions for proper bonding. Some
can tolerate slight gaps, and some cannot. Some require the joint to be kept
under pressure when curing, etc.
For the fuselage longerons, there is no need to steam or laminate to achieve the
curves. They will easily bend to the required shape.
Building an entire fuselage as a mock up really isn't necessary. The main purpose
would be to determine how well you fit in the stock fuselage, and determine
whether you would need to make any modifications.
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=464436#464436
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "USMC20C" <USMC20C(at)yahoo.com> |
Very nice looking struts! Keep it up my friend
gboothe wrote:
> Semih,
>
> You and your project are an inspiration!
>
> The attached pictures will show the orientation of the laminations on my
> struts. These are laminated hickory, but I don't think you would be narrowed
> to just hickory. I used T-88 epoxy on these, but have also used Weldwood
> Resorcinol on other strut sets.
>
> Jim Markle has a different approach to his beautiful struts, and maybe he
> can chime in.
>
> Please feel free to ask questions anytime, either on this list, or in
> personal email.
>
> Gary Boothe
> NX308MB
>
>
> --
--------
Respectfully,
Craig C
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=464447#464447
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "M W Stanley" <mmrally(at)nifty.com> |
Hi Gary,
I have to agree, very nice looking struts!
Do you know if there much of a weight difference between those and stock
streamlined aluminum?
Thanks
Mark Stanley
--------------------------------------------------
From: "USMC20C" <USMC20C(at)YAHOO.COM>
Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2016 2:26 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wood struts
>
> Very nice looking struts! Keep it up my friend
>
>
> gboothe wrote:
>> Semih,
>>
>> You and your project are an inspiration!
>>
>> The attached pictures will show the orientation of the laminations on my
>> struts. These are laminated hickory, but I don't think you would be
>> narrowed
>> to just hickory. I used T-88 epoxy on these, but have also used Weldwood
>> Resorcinol on other strut sets.
>>
>> Jim Markle has a different approach to his beautiful struts, and maybe he
>> can chime in.
>>
>> Please feel free to ask questions anytime, either on this list, or in
>> personal email.
>>
>> Gary Boothe
>> NX308MB
>>
>>
>> --
>
>
> --------
> Respectfully,
> Craig C
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=464447#464447
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christopher Ross" <crav8r(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cold Weather Piet |
Beautiful work! Looks burly and fast.... relatively speaking of course.
I like.
Cheers.
Chris
>>I haven't fully enclosed it yet but probably will build that option for
the florida to Broadhead trip...."
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fuselage longerons, laminated? |
| From: | "aviken" <aviken(at)hughes.net> |
Excuse me, but is the picture of your mock-up? If so, I would just put wings
on it and fly it . Good grief I don't think Uncle Tony intended for us to build
a complete aircraft twice. My mock up was just a couple of pine 1x1 glued
in the shape of a normal cockpit opening. I slipped it over my head and my shoulders
fit so I busted it up and threw it in the stove, end of story.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=464477#464477
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Glen Schweizer <glenschweizer(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuselage longerons, laminated? |
That is your finished fuse,yes?!
> On Dec 29, 2016, at 3:46 PM, aviken wrote:
>
>
> Excuse me, but is the picture of your mock-up? If so, I would just put wings
on it and fly it . Good grief I don't think Uncle Tony intended for us to build
a complete aircraft twice. My mock up was just a couple of pine 1x1 glued
in the shape of a normal cockpit opening. I slipped it over my head and my
shoulders fit so I busted it up and threw it in the stove, end of story.
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=464477#464477
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Airport Cafe's Now Listed in ACC's |
| From: | "gbrasch" <gmbrasch(at)gmail.com> |
I have just added over 50 airport cafs (and still growing) to current listings
in the Airport Courtesy Cars website and app (just in case your courtesy car isnt
available when you arrive!) These listings are highlighted in red so you can
easily find them. If you have any additions or corrections, please email them
directly to me at airportcars101(at)gmail.com. Thanks and Happy New Year! Glenn
PS, Submit your ramp fee's experience also for inclusion in the website/app!
--------
Glenn Brasch
RV-9A Flying
Medevac Helicopter Pilot (Ret)
Owner, "Airport Courtesy Cars" Smart Phone App
and www.airportcourtesycars.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=464537#464537
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fuselage longerons, laminated? |
| From: | "JimP" <j.petersen32(at)yahoo.com> |
No Glen, it really is just a mockup! It was a silly thing to do and I cant justify
building it, but I can share with you the story of how it happened!:
I was teaching myself CAD when I received a set of Pietenpol plans from my Dad
for Christmas. Putting 2 and 2 together, I decided to model the fuselage.
Then, when my step-grandson from Argentina came to stay with us for a little while,
I got the idea to build the mockup with him as a little project. We had
a great time, and I would like to think it contributed to his skill set in some
way (and it validated the CAD model). Now if we had used spruce, wed a had something!
Note: I recognize that although it may look like a real fuselage, it is not airworthy
and needs to leave my hands in little cut up pieces! Jim
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=464581#464581
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/airplane_screen_shot_ii_copy_171.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Decou, Norman" <norman.decou(at)ucdsb.on.ca> |
I am currently attaching my fuselage sides. I have checked and rechecked m
y dimensions. As the pictures show, I have an irregular bow inward at the
2nd station from the back.
I am using the long fuselage plans.
The dimensions I am using measured from the tail are
1st strut 19.125" from the end of the tail 7 " across
2nd strut 41.5" from the end of the tail 11" across
3rd strut 68.375" from the end of the tail 17" across
4th strut 95.5`` from the end of the tail 22`` across
Plan dimensions for the sides are 19.375-------19.375 total
22.500-------41
.875 total
27.000-------68
.875 total
27.250-------96
.125 total
I recognize that there are slight differences between my dimensions and the
fuselage side dimensions. I believe that some of this is due to the curve
at the tail effectively reducing the length when the sides.
I just need to know if someone can identify my error.
I don`t want to arbitrarily change plan dimensions but I do not believe thi
s bow is intended to be there.
Any ideas or suggestions would be greatly appreciated,
Norm
________________________________
III
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ned Lebens <nlebens(at)gmail.com> |
Hi Norm,
I used the plans width dimensions from the firewall to the pilot's seat
back. Aft of there, I do recall some discrepancies between the plans and
the natural bow my fuse wanted to take, as I pulled the tail together.
Here is what I've measured on my fuse:
Distance forward from tail post and width taken at outside edges of
longerons:
19-3/8" 5-5/8"
41-7/8" 11-1/8"
68-7/8" 17-5/16"
94-1/8" 21-3/4"
Note that I have angled the top of the pilot's seat back 2" beyond the
plans, so this probably had some small effect on the aft stations. I
suggest fixing the 68-7/8" station width where you want it and then pull
the tail together. Cut the rest to fit.
Regards,
Ned
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Hans van der Voort <nx15kv(at)yahoo.com> |
It has been a while since I build mine.but I do recall that I just made the
tail piece look right.Just made it a natural bow to the tail post, without
trying to scale=C2-to the plans.And avoiding=C2-any=C2-reverse bow.
Hans
NX15KV, Waller, TX
From: "Decou, Norman" <norman.decou(at)ucdsb.on.ca>
To: "pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com"
Sent: Monday, January 2, 2017 1:42 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fw: plane
I am currently attaching my fuselage sides.=C2- I have checked and rechec
ked my dimensions.=C2- As the pictures show, I have an irregular bow inwa
rd at the 2nd station from the back.=C2-
I am using the long fuselage plans.The dimensions I am using measured from
the tail are1st strut 19.125" from the end of the=C2- tail 7 " across2nd
strut 41.5" from the end of the tail 11" across3rd strut 68.375" from the e
nd of the tail 17" across4th strut 95.5`` from the end of the tail 22`` acr
ossPlan dimensions for the sides are 19.375-------19.375 total=C2-=C2-
=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2
-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-
=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2
-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-
=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- 22.500-------41.875 total=C2-
=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2
-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-
=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2
-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-
=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- 27.000-------68.875 total
=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2
-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-
=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2
-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-
=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- 27.250-------96.125
totalI recognize that there are slight differences between my dimensions an
d the fuselage side dimensions.=C2- I believe that some of this is due to
the curve at the tail effectively reducing the length when the sides.=C2
-
I just need to know if someone can identify my error.
I don`t want to arbitrarily change plan dimensions but I do not believe thi
s bow is intended to be there.
Any ideas or suggestions would be greatly appreciated,Norm
III
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | normdecou(at)aol.com |
Thanks Ned,
I thought the natural bend would be okay.
I wanted to make sure that altering the bend would not reduce the strength of the
tail.
Thanks again
Norm
Adrienne
---- Original Message ----
From: Ned Lebens <nlebens(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Mon, Jan 2, 2017 3:58 pm
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fw: plane
Hi Norm,
I used the plans width dimensions from the firewall to the pilot's seat back.
Aft of there, I do recall some discrepancies between the plans and the natural
bow my fuse wanted to take, as I pulled the tail together. Here is what I've
measured on my fuse:
Distance forward from tail post and width taken at outside edges of longerons:
19-3/8" 5-5/8"
41-7/8" 11-1/8"
68-7/8" 17-5/16"
94-1/8" 21-3/4"
Note that I have angled the top of the pilot's seat back 2" beyond the plans, so
this probably had some small effect on the aft stations. I suggest fixing the
68-7/8" station width where you want it and then pull the tail together. Cut
the rest to fit.
Regards,
Ned
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | helspersew(at)aol.com |
Hi Ned,
I don't normally advocate many deviations from the plans, but my aching back and
legs (from two trips up and back from Brodhead) concur with your decision to
lean the seat back.
Dan Helsper
Loensloe Airfield
Puryear, TN
Sent from AOL Mobile Mail
-----Original Message-----
From: Ned Lebens <nlebens(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Mon, Jan 2, 2017 01:58 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fw: plane
Hi Norm,
I used the plans width dimensions from the firewall to the pilot's seat back.
Aft of there, I do recall some discrepancies between the plans and the natural
bow my fuse wanted to take, as I pulled the tail together. Here is what
I've measured on my fuse:
Distance forward from tail post and width taken at outside edges of longerons:
19-3/8" 5-5/8"
41-7/8" 11-1/8"
68-7/8" 17-5/16"
94-1/8" 21-3/4"
Note that I have angled the top of the pilot's seat back 2" beyond the plans, so
this probably had some small effect on the aft stations. I suggest fixing the
68-7/8" station width where you want it and then pull the tail together. Cut
the rest to fit.
Regards,
Ned
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "tkreiner" <tkreiner(at)gmail.com> |
Norm,
From your fourth photo it appears that you have not begun to thin down the tail
post. Before you glue anything up and have a curve you might want to cut the
til post and make sure everything fits properly prior to actually gluing and
clampIng.
Just saying
--------
Tom Kreiner
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=464631#464631
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | normdecou(at)aol.com |
Hi Tom,
I spent part of the day today fitting the tail.
Thank for the advice,
Norm
Tom Kreiner
Adrienne
---- Original Message ----
From: tkreiner <tkreiner(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Mon, Jan 2, 2017 8:14 pm
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: plane
Norm,
From your fourth photo it appears that you have not begun to thin down the tail
post. Before you glue anything up and have a curve you might want to cut the
til post and make sure everything fits properly prior to actually gluing and
clampIng.
Just saying
--------
Tom Kreiner
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=464631#464631
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles N. Campbell" <charlescampbell1924(at)gmail.com> |
Norman, as tkreiner said, your tail post looks too wide. The tail post
needs to be 1 inch wide, outside to outside. The way I did it was to put
in cross pieces back to station 3 (from the front (keeping every thing
square). Then I pulled the two tail posts together and sawed down the
center until the tail post was 1-inch wide. Then I just measured at each
station and cut the cross pieces as wide as they need to be. I didn't pay
any attention to the dimensions of the cross pieces given on the plans
because the dimensions given are for the short fuselage. (My plans don't
have a top view (giving dimensions) of the fuselage frame. I don't believe
the dimensions given for the short fuselage will work for the long
fuselage.) Chuck
On Mon, Jan 2, 2017 at 2:42 PM, Decou, Norman
wrote:
>
> I am currently attaching my fuselage sides. I have checked and rechecked
> my dimensions. As the pictures show, I have an irregular bow inward at the
> 2nd station from the back.
>
> I am using the long fuselage plans.
>
> The dimensions I am using measured from the tail are
>
> 1st strut 19.125" from the end of the tail 7 " across
>
> 2nd strut 41.5" from the end of the tail 11" across
>
> 3rd strut 68.375" from the end of the tail 17" across
>
> 4th strut 95.5`` from the end of the tail 22`` across
>
> Plan dimensions for the sides are 19.375-------19.375 total
>
>
> 22.500-------41.875 total
>
>
> 27.000-------68.875 total
>
>
> 27.250-------96.125 total
>
> I recognize that there are slight differences between my dimensions and
> the fuselage side dimensions. I believe that some of this is due to the
> curve at the tail effectively reducing the length when the sides.
>
>
> I just need to know if someone can identify my error.
>
>
> I don`t want to arbitrarily change plan dimensions but I do not believe
> this bow is intended to be there.
>
>
> Any ideas or suggestions would be greatly appreciated,
>
> Norm
>
> ------------------------------
> III
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "aviken" <aviken(at)hughes.net> |
I haven't checked your measurements against my plans, I built the 1933 plans plane
and it all seemed to work out. I would not want to have the reverse bow,
I believe it will add un-needed stress to those joints. Surely there is a mistake
somewhere in the dimensions . I believe the most important area would
be the tail-post and the seat back station. I wouldn't want to wander too
far at those points, but I don't believe a variation of width between those two
to keep a smooth bow would hurt.
That being said, I have found everytime I have strayed from the plans, somewhere
down the line I regretted it.
Just my opinion and it isn't worth much ha ha.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=464646#464646
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | normdecou(at)aol.com |
Hi aviken,
The reverse bow concerned me too but like you I do not like to stray fro established
plans (I usually pay the price down the road).
Thanks for your thoughts,
Norm
Adrienne
---- Original Message ----
From: aviken <aviken(at)hughes.net>
Sent: Tue, Jan 3, 2017 9:20 am
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: plane
I haven't checked your measurements against my plans, I built the 1933 plans plane
and it all seemed to work out. I would not want to have the reverse bow,
I believe it will add un-needed stress to those joints. Surely there is a mistake
somewhere in the dimensions . I believe the most important area would
be the tail-post and the seat back station. I wouldn't want to wander too
far at those points, but I don't believe a variation of width between those two
to keep a smooth bow would hurt.
That being said, I have found everytime I have strayed from the plans, somewhere
down the line I regretted it.
Just my opinion and it isn't worth much ha ha.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=464646#464646
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "tkreiner" <tkreiner(at)gmail.com> |
Norm,
Don't know how I deleted my original reply, but from your 4th photo, it appears
the tailpost is too wide. As others have chimed in, sawing it to the 1" thickness
would be appropriate...
Reverse bow, however, is another issue, and I concur; the bow needs to be eliminated
entirely, as others have already stated. Whatever length of crosspieces
is needed to achieve this should probably be notated on your set of plans.
You have not stated - or I missed - whether your fuse width is per plans or slightly
wider. This could be the driving issue if it is wider....
Best of luck with your build & Happy New Year!
--------
Tom Kreiner
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=464650#464650
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com> |
This falls squarely in the "things that make you go hmmm...."zone.
Seemed to happen a lot building model airplanes.
As much as anything, different pieces of wood bend differently and will contribute.
So, two choices as I see it. Just live with the result, I do not believe
it introduces any detrimental stress. That sort of stress lives in all wing
ribs, and in the bend at the front of the fuse. Second, just cut to fit and
ensure a nice smooth curve. In this case, you will not be introducing enough
change to cascade into a problem later. Some things do, and right quick, but
not there.
When I rebuilt my fuse, main gear and fittings, and replaced the wing struts, I
was pretty worried about inadvertent change to the rigging of the plane. But,
it had to be done, figured I'd just do the best I could, and test fly very conservatively
and work from there. Turns out I could tell no difference. This
plane lives right smack dab in the middle of the forgiving zone.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=464652#464652
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | normdecou(at)aol.com |
Hi Chuck,
Hopefully, by the end of the day today I will have the tail down to 1 inch. Thanks
or the advice. I know from building other assemblies that if the primary
structure is not square everything that follows is a nightmare.
Thanks again,
Norm
Adrienne
---- Original Message ----
From: Charles N. Campbell <charlescampbell1924(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Tue, Jan 3, 2017 8:53 am
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fw: plane
Norman, as tkreiner said, your tail post looks too wide. The tail post needs to
be 1 inch wide, outside to outside. The way I did it was to put in cross pieces
back to station 3 (from the front (keeping every thing square). Then I pulled
the two tail posts together and sawed down the center until the tail post
was 1-inch wide. Then I just measured at each station and cut the cross pieces
as wide as they need to be. I didn't pay any attention to the dimensions
of the cross pieces given on the plans because the dimensions given are for the
short fuselage. (My plans don't have a top view (giving dimensions) of the
fuselage frame. I don't believe the dimensions given for the short fuselage will
work for the long fuselage.) Chuck
On Mon, Jan 2, 2017 at 2:42 PM, Decou, Norman wrote:
I am currently attaching my fuselage sides. I have checked and rechecked my dimensions.
As the pictures show, I have an irregular bow inward at the 2nd station
from the back.
I am using the long fuselage plans.
The dimensions I am using measured from the tail are
1st strut 19.125" from the end of the tail 7 " across
2nd strut 41.5" from the end of the tail 11" across
3rd strut 68.375" from the end of the tail 17" across
4th strut 95.5`` from the end of the tail 22`` across
Plan dimensions for the sides are 19.375-------19.375 total
22.500-------41.875
total
27.000-------68.875
total
27.250-------96.125
total
I recognize that there are slight differences between my dimensions and the fuselage
side dimensions. I believe that some of this is due to the curve at the
tail effectively reducing the length when the sides.
I just need to know if someone can identify my error.
I don`t want to arbitrarily change plan dimensions but I do not believe this bow
is intended to be there.
Any ideas or suggestions would be greatly appreciated,
Norm
III
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Meet the man who built his own plane from scratch .... |
| From: | "womenfly2" <Love2Fly.KAP(at)gmail.com> |
Meet the man who built his own plane from scratch, using second-hand parts and
YouTube tutorials ... does the plane look familiar?
Enjoy!
WF2
--------
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=464690#464690
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wood Landing GEAR |
| From: | "Vincent Dunn" <vincentkdunn(at)yahoo.com> |
Tony,
You say you built your gear "per the dimensions." The plans I bought from Doc M.
are so bad I can't read the dimensions! If anyone can provide the dimensions
from Fig 6A, page 14. I'd appreciate it.
--------
Vincent Dunn
Salem Oregon
vincentkdunn(at)yahoo.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=464759#464759
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/landing_gear_fig_6a_page_14_detail_613.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/landing_gear_fig_6a_page_14_557.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wood Landing GEAR |
| From: | "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca> |
Tony,
I think perhaps you used the wrong detail for your axle. The FGM drawings call
for the axle to be 1 1/2" OD x 12ga chrome molybdenum. The axle collar, that
slips over the axle is drawn with 1 1/2" ID and 1 3/4" OD.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=464763#464763
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/image_856.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/image_780.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wood Landing GEAR |
| From: | "wheelharp" <wheelharp(at)gmail.com> |
While we're on the subject of wooden gear, am I missing something as far as the
axle and bungee arrangement? I can't find anything on the drawings showing the
cage or bracket that retains axle in case of bungee failure. I'm sure it's right
under my nose, and as usual, I will probably realize the answer right as
I hit the "submit" button...
--------
Jon Jones
Ironton, MO
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=464784#464784
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wood Landing GEAR |
| From: | "Rick Schreiber" <lmforge(at)earthlink.net> |
Jon,
What most due is put a loop of aircraft cable around the axle and the V block .
Here is a picture
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=464786#464786
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dscn2484adj_852.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douwe Blumberg" <douwe(at)douwestudios.com> |
| Subject: | wood landing gear |
Hey Jon,
You're not missing anything, there is no "axle retaining" mechanism shown in
the plans. This, however, should definitely be added.
As mentioned, most people use a cable look, BUT if you go that route, be
sure to make it sturdy and use a few nico sleeves if you use nicropress
sleeves. I personally know someone who's bungee's failed on one side and
the "backup" cable slipped through the sleeve. Busted prop and an upside
down airplane resulted.
I made a "U" of thin aircraft tubing, flattened both ends and affixed it to
some of the AN3 bolts holding the lower "V" brackets together. Can't say
how it'll work, but should be sturdy.
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wood Landing GEAR |
| From: | "wheelharp" <wheelharp(at)gmail.com> |
Rick/Douwe, thanks for the help. Just wanted to make sure I wasn't overlooking
something in the plans. This looks like one of those areas where it might be fun
to get a little creative with engineering. Rick, in the photo you posted, I'm
guessing the downfacing rod is both a guide pin, and to keep axle from rotating
with brakes. I might try to come up with something that is both a safety
cage and rotational stop. If I get some time I will have to look at ideas on West
Coast Piet.
--------
Jon Jones
Ironton, MO
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=464844#464844
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wood Landing GEAR |
| From: | Richard Schreiber <lmforge(at)earthlink.net> |
Jon,
Your are right, the down tube is an anti-rotation device since this set
up has brakes. The photo I sent is not of my plane, though my set up is
the same, but of Mike Cuys. A little more elegant way to set up the
"safety strap" in case of bungee failure, is a modification of the loop
seen on Mike Cuys plane. This is similar to what Dowe spoke of, but
still uses a cable.
The photo is a nice example on Dan Helspers plane. I just used a loop,
but that was done an hour before first flight last year. I will do what
Dan has done using 1/8" or 5/32" 1x19 cable as soon as I can. I am sure
it will be strong enough.
Regards,
Rick Schreiber
NX478RS
On 1/7/2017 12:39 PM, wheelharp wrote:
>
> Rick/Douwe, thanks for the help. Just wanted to make sure I wasn't overlooking
something in the plans. This looks like one of those areas where it might be
fun to get a little creative with engineering. Rick, in the photo you posted,
I'm guessing the downfacing rod is both a guide pin, and to keep axle from rotating
with brakes. I might try to come up with something that is both a safety
cage and rotational stop. If I get some time I will have to look at ideas on
West Coast Piet.
>
> --------
> Jon Jones
> Ironton, MO
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=464844#464844
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wood Landing GEAR |
| From: | "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
For yet another version of the axle anti-rotation setup, go to Westcoastpiet.com , photos, and scroll down to John Dilatush's Air Camper pictures. Here's a good closeup: http://www.westcoastpiet.com/images/John%20Dilatush%20Subaru-Powered%20Pietenpol/images/DSC00049.JPG
As you'll see, John used a pair of short links with rod ends to form somewhat of
a "four-bar linkage" to keep the axle from rotating when the brakes are applied.
In other photos there, you'll see that he also used the aircraft cable loops
to catch the axle if a bungee should let go.
You will also find a photo of the motorcycle chain links that John used here and
there as cable shackles on his airplane. A pair of chain links and clevis pins
should price out quite a bit lower cost than an AN115 cable shackle ($10.85
each for 3/32-1/8" cables). Find a decent worn-out motorcycle chain, press
out the pins, and you can get the links for free.
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power, 72x36 Culver prop
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=464887#464887
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douwe Blumberg" <douwe(at)douwestudios.com> |
| Subject: | email for Steve Eldredge |
Does anyone have contact info for Steve Eldredge in Utah?
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douwe Blumberg" <douwe(at)douwestudios.com> |
Hey all,
I'm doing a job in Salt Lake City and will need a concrete contractor. If
anyone lives out there or has any connections, please let me know.
Thanks
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian <wings.wheels29(at)yahoo.com> |
Douwe,
Contact me I may be able to help.
Brian
385-315-0127
Sent from my iPhone
> On Jan 9, 2017, at 3:11 PM, Douwe Blumberg wrote:
>
> Hey all,
>
> I=99m doing a job in Salt Lake City and will need a concrete contrac
tor. If anyone lives out there or has any connections, please let me know.
>
> Thanks
>
> Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Joining the fuselage sides |
| From: | "Pocono John" <tinmotion(at)yahoo.com> |
I have both sides of the fuselage sitting in the jig, and now I'm wondering how
best to join them.
I'm building the long fuselage with split axel.
1) What's the best sequence for these steps:
Glue the floor board on.
Install the ash cross pieces on the floor board.
Join the tail.
Install the top cross pieces.
2) the forward ash cross piece tapers from 1" to 3/4". Does the rear piece also
taper, or is it 3/4" the full length?
3) to position the ash pieces, should I place a temporary "false" back at the front
seat and position the rear ash to it? Then measure 27 1/2" on center to the
forward ash cross piece?
4) I'll be mounting the corvair engine. What adjustments, if any, should I make
to the firewall area of the plans?
5) I haven't focused much on the steel strap yet, but if you can shed some light
on it, might save a future post.
Any words of advice/suggestions are certainly appreciated.
Thank you,
John Cronin
--------
John
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=464955#464955
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Joining the fuselage sides |
| From: | Peter Johnson <vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au> |
John,
Check out http://www.cpc-world.com
There are photos of the fuse building on there.
Cheers
Peter
> On 11 Jan 2017, at 9:42 am, Pocono John wrote:
>
>
> I have both sides of the fuselage sitting in the jig, and now I'm wondering how
best to join them.
>
> I'm building the long fuselage with split axel.
>
> 1) What's the best sequence for these steps:
>
> Glue the floor board on.
> Install the ash cross pieces on the floor board.
> Join the tail.
> Install the top cross pieces.
>
> 2) the forward ash cross piece tapers from 1" to 3/4". Does the rear piece also
taper, or is it 3/4" the full length?
>
> 3) to position the ash pieces, should I place a temporary "false" back at the
front seat and position the rear ash to it? Then measure 27 1/2" on center to
the forward ash cross piece?
>
> 4) I'll be mounting the corvair engine. What adjustments, if any, should I make
to the firewall area of the plans?
>
> 5) I haven't focused much on the steel strap yet, but if you can shed some light
on it, might save a future post.
>
> Any words of advice/suggestions are certainly appreciated.
>
> Thank you,
>
> John Cronin
>
> --------
> John
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=464955#464955
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Joining the fuselage sides |
| From: | "Pocono John" <tinmotion(at)yahoo.com> |
Thanks!
--------
John
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=464962#464962
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Model A engine For Sale |
My firewall forward, ready to fly Model A is for sale. Bolt it onto a "standard"
plans built Pietenpol fuse and fly now. 76-44 wood prop, I still have the shipping
box the prop came in. WICO mag. Firewall forward with a few extra parts.
The engine was flown for about 110 hours by Tom Lester in Knoxville about 10
years ago. He traded it for an A65 or 85 and I bought it. This is NOT a pretty
show engine. It was built by a Model A "expert" somewhere in Michigan (I think)
to Pietenpol plans specs. I would not hesitate to fly behind it. It is NOT
"souped up", NOT high performance.
Video (hope Mark doesn't mind me sharing this link!):
https://youtu.be/ZAv-D1oaFj4
I start/run it every year or so. Runs fine, this is a good strong engine. Personal
message me for a PDF (LARGE FILE!) with lots of pics. $2500
Jim Markle
Pryor, OK
Sent from my smartphone.
Jim Markle
Sent from my smartphone.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wood Landing GEAR |
| From: | "womenfly2" <Love2Fly.KAP(at)gmail.com> |
I will tell you that the cable with swagged end will not work as a safety stop.
The cable will pull through the copper swag on a hard landing if the bungee brakes.
You need to have a positive sheet metal stop. Look at how a Curtiss Jenny
landing gear is designed. BP just copied it.
WF2
--------
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=464973#464973
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Joining the fuselage sides |
| From: | "Vincent Dunn" <vincentkdunn(at)yahoo.com> |
John,
I'll be interested to hear what your process is. Especially, "Joining the tail."
I just finished building a "mockup" of the long Corvair fuse and found the tail
joining process, or rather the beveling of the longerons and struts, to be
devilishly difficult. I obviously didn't do it properly and in the correct sequence
so I'm interested to hear how you go about it.
--------
Vincent Dunn
Salem Oregon
vincentkdunn(at)yahoo.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=464979#464979
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | helspersew(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Wood Landing GEAR |
Is this conclusion based on experience WF2?
Dan Helsper
Loensloe Airfield
Puryear, TN
-----Original Message-----
From: womenfly2 <Love2Fly.KAP(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Wed, Jan 11, 2017 10:41 am
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wood Landing GEAR
I will tell you that the cable with swagged end will not work as a safety stop.
The cable will pull through the copper swag on a hard landing if the bungee brakes.
You need to have a positive sheet metal stop. Look at how a Curtiss Jenny
landing gear is designed. BP just copied it.
WF2
--------
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=464973#464973
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Joining the fuselage sides |
| From: | "Pocono John" <tinmotion(at)yahoo.com> |
You can follow my progress here: http://imageevent.com/hatz/piet
John
--------
John
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=464980#464980
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douwe Blumberg" <douwe(at)douwestudios.com> |
| Subject: | wood landing gear |
Hi Dan,
I personally know of a safety cable which gave way at the swage when the
bungees broke on that side. It just slipped through. I think a few swages
might have worked, especially if the cable went around twice.
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | helspersew(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: wood landing gear |
OK good to know Douwe. Some changes need to take place on my machine.
Dan H
-----Original Message-----
From: Douwe Blumberg <douwe(at)douwestudios.com>
Sent: Thu, Jan 12, 2017 7:34 am
Subject: Pietenpol-List: wood landing gear
Hi Dan,
I personally know of a safety cable which gave way at the swage when the bungees
broke on that side. It just slipped through. I think a few swages might have
worked, especially if the cable went around twice.
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Joining the fuselage sides |
| From: | "Speedbrake" <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
Hello John. Here is what I did to join my fuselage sides. (The pictures as shown
are in reverse order...strange...)
Fist off, you must work with a center line. As shown in Picture 1, I put tape on
the floor and drew a straight line down it. I used this very center line for
numerous items through out the build, so do not be in a hurry to remove it. (Mine
was used for months.) I started with the fuselage sides upside down; the
flat longerons on the floor and worked from the front towards the rear, adding
and clamping the connecting pieces as I went. This allowed the fuselage to take
on a nice, even shape.
I drew a center line on each cross member piece, (Picture 6) and dropped a plumb
bob down to match with the line on the floor. (Picture 2) I worked my way back,
gluing, clamping, checking center lines and adding cross pieces both top and
bottom. (Picture 3 and 4) Note that I utilized two plumb bobs at all times,
just to be sure the front and rear stayed true on center.
Next I traced out and added the floor, (picture 5) and after flipping the fuselage
upright, I started on the various instrument shelves, diagonal, etc. (Picture
7)
I have other pictures/details if interested.
--------
Mike Perez
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=465016#465016
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/fuselage7_126.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/fuselage6_998.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/fuselage5_214.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/fuselage4_938.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/fuselage3_413.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/fuselage2_190.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/fuselage1_572.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Joining the fuselage sides |
| From: | "Pocono John" <tinmotion(at)yahoo.com> |
Thanks Mike. The saying "a picture's worth a thousand words" is so true.
Your fuselage looks good and I sure appreciate the photos and advice.
I notice you're installing the tail post later. I sometimes wonder if I should
have gone that route, but alas, I have to go to the shop now on work on cutting
them down to size and beveled.
Thank you,
John
--------
John
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=465018#465018
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "M W Stanley" <mmrally(at)nifty.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Joining the fuselage sides |
Hi Mike, I hope you don't mind me butting in. Just want to say your photos
are great, Thanks for posting!
Mark Stanley
Japan
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Speedbrake" <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 2:11 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Joining the fuselage sides
>
>
> Hello John. Here is what I did to join my fuselage sides. (The pictures as
> shown are in reverse order...strange...)
>
> Fist off, you must work with a center line. As shown in Picture 1, I put
> tape on the floor and drew a straight line down it. I used this very
> center line for numerous items through out the build, so do not be in a
> hurry to remove it. (Mine was used for months.) I started with the
> fuselage sides upside down; the flat longerons on the floor and worked
> from the front towards the rear, adding and clamping the connecting pieces
> as I went. This allowed the fuselage to take on a nice, even shape.
>
> I drew a center line on each cross member piece, (Picture 6) and dropped a
> plumb bob down to match with the line on the floor. (Picture 2) I worked
> my way back, gluing, clamping, checking center lines and adding cross
> pieces both top and bottom. (Picture 3 and 4) Note that I utilized two
> plumb bobs at all times, just to be sure the front and rear stayed true on
> center.
>
> Next I traced out and added the floor, (picture 5) and after flipping the
> fuselage upright, I started on the various instrument shelves, diagonal,
> etc. (Picture 7)
>
> I have other pictures/details if interested.
>
> --------
> Mike Perez
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=465016#465016
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/fuselage7_126.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/fuselage6_998.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/fuselage5_214.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/fuselage4_938.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/fuselage3_413.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/fuselage2_190.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/fuselage1_572.jpg
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wood Landing GEAR |
| From: | "womenfly2" <Love2Fly.KAP(at)gmail.com> |
Dan Helsper wrote:
> Is this conclusion based on experience WF2?
>
> Dan Helsper
> Loensloe Airfield
> Puryear, TN
>
>
> --
Yes. Here is what the gear does when a bungee brakes. Not only does the axle travel
up toward the fuselage but is also travels back toward the rear gear leg
hence putting increased shock load on the rear cable swage. The axle also slides
out toward the free side. The wheel will then contact the rear gear leg and
the aft lift strut. All this happens in a millisecond on landing. This will flip
the aircraft over.
A cable for a safety stop is a really, really bad idea on this setup.
WF2
--------
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=465040#465040
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Cold Weather Piet |
| From: | "Lostman" <howhypno(at)hotmail.com> |
Nightmare, what did you use for your cabane fairings? They appear the same color
as the wood but also look like aluminum. Being a wood worker and having built
custom pieces I love the look of your plane. Simply amazing.
--------
I own a Teenie Two, remnants of an Avid, a KR2, hang glider and paraglider as well
as my 1997 Pietenpol Air Camper. I'm also scratch building a Sonerai IIL.
As a CFII/MEI I love sharing the gift of flight with just about anyone that will
fly with me.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=465054#465054
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Corvair Piet performance report |
| From: | "Vincent Dunn" <vincentkdunn(at)yahoo.com> |
Rick Schreiber: I have a few questions about your 18 gal nose tank. I'm building
the long Corvair fuselage and sacrificing the front seat for comfort/leg room.
Rather than put a second fuel tank in the wing I want to build a larger nose
tank. My questions: What structural changes did you make to the fuselage to
accommodate the big tank? What was the shape of the tank? Did this larger tank
require a fuel pump? Is the fuel pump electrically driven or engine driven? Information
about your design and experience are appreciated. Thank you!
--------
Vincent Dunn
Salem Oregon
vincentkdunn(at)yahoo.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=465055#465055
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Corvair Piet performance report |
| From: | "Rick Schreiber" <lmforge(at)earthlink.net> |
Vincent,
Here is what I did. My tank is 18 gal. I am only using gravity feed to the carb,
no fuel pump was required. When I ran the fuel flow test, with the plane at
about a 16 degree angle of attack, there was plenty of head pressure. I dont recall
the actual figures, but it was way better than the 150% of max power fuel
consumption required by the FAR. The useable fuel was also almost the full 18
gallons except for a few ounces. The last fuel flow test was actually done with
48 ounces of fuel and the fuel flow was fine.
I have attached some photos and a dimensioned drawing of the tank. My tank design
followed pretty much what Mike Cuy did, except I did not add in the rear extension.
If I had to do it again I would put in the rear extension that Mike has
as it gives more support to the tank rear. It makes it a little more difficult
to construct the tank, but I think its worth it. If you are following my tank
dimensions, I would make it slightly narrower. My tank is a little tight when
trying to run the fuel shut off, throttle and carb heat cables.
The tank support is two stainless steel straps running fore and aft. These straps
attach to the forward ash piece at the firewall and the shelf behind the front
cockpit instrument panel. This shelf is reinforced with x 4 Douglas fir. There
is a secondary support that goes left and right under the tank, also made
of Douglas fir. Finally there is a top strap that goes across the top bow of
the tank.
The attached photos should give you a good idea of what I did. Also check Mike
Cuys photos on the West Cost Piet website, as that's where I shamelessly plagiarized
my ideas.
Regards,
Rick Schreiber
NX478RS
Porter Co Regional, Valparaiso IN
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=465070#465070
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/pietnosetanksketchmike_cuy_372.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/line_drawing_nx478rs_989.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/aimg_0623_188.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/aimg_0397_198.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/a100_2113_102.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Cuy <michaelcuy1(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Corvair Piet performance report--nose tank sketch |
http://www.westcoastpiet.com/images/Mike_Cuy/Image/PietNoseTankSketch.jpg.j
pg
*Glad to hear your nose tank is working out Rick. Love my 17 gallon nose
tank. No header tank, no muss, no lines running from a center section tank
(my center section is all baggage) *
*Mike C. *
On Sat, Jan 14, 2017 at 1:39 PM, Rick Schreiber
wrote:
> lmforge(at)earthlink.net>
>
> Vincent,
> Here is what I did. My tank is 18 gal. I am only using gravity feed to th
e
> carb, no fuel pump was required. When I ran the fuel flow test, with the
> plane at about a 16 degree angle of attack, there was plenty of head
> pressure. I don=99t recall the actual figures, but it was way bette
r than the
> 150% of max power fuel consumption required by the FAR. The useable fuel
> was also almost the full 18 gallons except for a few ounces. The last fue
l
> flow test was actually done with 48 ounces of fuel and the fuel flow was
> fine.
> I have attached some photos and a dimensioned drawing of the tank. My tan
k
> design followed pretty much what Mike Cuy did, except I did not add in th
e
> rear extension. If I had to do it again I would put in the rear extension
> that Mike has as it gives more support to the tank rear. It makes it a
> little more difficult to construct the tank, but I think it=99s wor
th it. If
> you are following my tank dimensions, I would make it slightly narrower.
My
> tank is a little tight when trying to run the fuel shut off, throttle and
> carb heat cables.
> The tank support is two stainless steel straps running fore and aft. Thes
e
> straps attach to the forward ash piece at the firewall and the shelf behi
nd
> the front cockpit instrument panel. This shelf is reinforced with =C2=BE
=9Dx 4=9D
> Douglas fir. There is a secondary support that goes left and right under
> the tank, also made of Douglas fir. Finally there is a top strap that goe
s
> across the top bow of the tank.
> The attached photos should give you a good idea of what I did. Also check
> Mike Cuys photos on the West Cost Piet website, as that's where I
> shamelessly plagiarized my ideas.
> Regards,
> Rick Schreiber
> NX478RS
> Porter Co Regional, Valparaiso IN
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=465070#465070
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/pietnosetanksketchmike_cuy_372.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/line_drawing_nx478rs_989.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/aimg_0623_188.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/aimg_0397_198.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/a100_2113_102.jpg
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Cuy <michaelcuy1(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | a whole page of Piet sketches---web link below |
For those of you who are newer to the list, here's a page of a few of the
miscellaneous sketches that I've drawn to help others along while building
their
Pietenpol. Scroll down after you get to the page.
The fuel tank sketch/installation is in there along with a bunch of other
sketches---of possible interest.
http://www.westcoastpiet.com/images/Mike_Cuy/Sketches.html
Mike C.
NX48MC
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Corvair Piet performance report--nose tank sketch |
| From: | Richard Schreiber <lmforge(at)earthlink.net> |
It really is working out well Mike. As I said, I plagiarized what you
had already done. Putting the rear extension into the shelf area as you
did is a better way to go as it gives more support to the tank. That
area behind the front IP is wasted space anyways. I was just trying to
simplify the tank construction. Until I actually did the fuel flow
testing, I was afraid I would have to use ram air to pressurize the
tank, but fortunately it wasn't necessary. I have taken off now with a
full 18 gal tank and all works well, however that gives me 3 hrs flight
time with a 1/2 hour reserve. So far my longest flight has been 2-1/2
hours. As much as I like flying the Piet, I was ready to land and take a
break at 2-1/2 hours. When I used to hear people say 2 hours was long
enough in a Pietenpol I was wondering what is the problem? I fly over 3
hour legs in my TriPacer all the time with no problem. With a Pietenpol
is it lack of padding in an uncomfortable seat? The noise? The wind
buffet? For me its just like driving a motorcycle for a long distance.
Its the fact that you can never relax like you can in a car, or a more
modern enclosed cockpit aircraft. You have to fly it all the time. Not
that I am complaining, its just a different kind of flying. In all
respects it is more enjoyable than flying the TriPacer, but 17 or 18
gallons of fuel is certainly enough.
Rick Schreiber
NX478RS
Porter Co Regional, Valparaiso IN
On 1/14/2017 6:53 PM, Michael Cuy wrote:
> http://www.westcoastpiet.com/images/Mike_Cuy/Image/PietNoseTankSketch.jpg.jpg
>
> *Glad to hear your nose tank is working out Rick. Love my 17 gallon
> nose tank. No header tank, no muss, no lines running from a center
> section tank (my center section is all baggage) *
> *
> *
> *Mike C. *
>
> On Sat, Jan 14, 2017 at 1:39 PM, Rick Schreiber > wrote:
>
> >
>
> Vincent,
> Here is what I did. My tank is 18 gal. I am only using gravity
> feed to the carb, no fuel pump was required. When I ran the fuel
> flow test, with the plane at about a 16 degree angle of attack,
> there was plenty of head pressure. I dont recall the actual
> figures, but it was way better than the 150% of max power fuel
> consumption required by the FAR. The useable fuel was also almost
> the full 18 gallons except for a few ounces. The last fuel flow
> test was actually done with 48 ounces of fuel and the fuel flow
> was fine.
> I have attached some photos and a dimensioned drawing of the tank.
> My tank design followed pretty much what Mike Cuy did, except I
> did not add in the rear extension. If I had to do it again I would
> put in the rear extension that Mike has as it gives more support
> to the tank rear. It makes it a little more difficult to construct
> the tank, but I think its worth it. If you are following my tank
> dimensions, I would make it slightly narrower. My tank is a little
> tight when trying to run the fuel shut off, throttle and carb heat
> cables.
> The tank support is two stainless steel straps running fore and
> aft. These straps attach to the forward ash piece at the firewall
> and the shelf behind the front cockpit instrument panel. This
> shelf is reinforced with x 4 Douglas fir. There is a secondary
> support that goes left and right under the tank, also made of
> Douglas fir. Finally there is a top strap that goes across the top
> bow of the tank.
> The attached photos should give you a good idea of what I did.
> Also check Mike Cuys photos on the West Cost Piet website, as
> that's where I shamelessly plagiarized my ideas.
> Regards,
> Rick Schreiber
> NX478RS
> Porter Co Regional, Valparaiso IN
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=465070#465070
> <http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=465070#465070>
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/pietnosetanksketchmike_cuy_372.jpg
> <http://forums.matronics.com//files/pietnosetanksketchmike_cuy_372.jpg>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/line_drawing_nx478rs_989.jpg
> <http://forums.matronics.com//files/line_drawing_nx478rs_989.jpg>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/aimg_0623_188.jpg
> <http://forums.matronics.com//files/aimg_0623_188.jpg>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/aimg_0397_198.jpg
> <http://forums.matronics.com//files/aimg_0397_198.jpg>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/a100_2113_102.jpg
> <http://forums.matronics.com//files/a100_2113_102.jpg>
>
>
> ===================================
> br> enpol-List" rel="noreferrer"
> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> ===================================
> FORUMS -
> eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
> ===================================
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> errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
> ===================================
> b Site -
> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ===================================
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Corvair Piet performance report--nose tank sketch |
| From: | "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
It works! The 16 gallon nose tank on 41CC is essentially the same as Mike Cuy's
design, with the rear extension, sloping bottom, and how it's fitted out.
As far as flight endurance, I will second what Rick wrote. After about 2 hours
I'm getting antsy, and at 2.5 hours I'm watching the fuel level like a hawk and
ded-reckoning my way to the nearest restroom.
The flight endurance may not be exactly related to cockpit comfort, but I remember
climbing into my flight instructor's Taylorcraft for a flight review a few
years ago. I had never been in a T'Craft before and it felt like climbing into
a big comfortable couch in a big comfortable living room, compared to the rear
cockpit of the Air Camper! Wow, what a difference! Upholstery, enclosed
cockpit, muffled engine noise and air noise... and the T'Craft actually felt something
like a Cessna 206 compared to the Piet.
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power, 72x36 Culver prop
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=465088#465088
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Corvair Piet performance report--nose tank sketch |
| From: | "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
Also forgot to mention... plan your cable routing before you figure out your fuel
tank. Like others have mentioned, it can get VERY tight getting cables from
the rear cockpit to the engine compartment past the fuel tank, especially since
you can't take a straight line going through the firewall... you have to dodge
around the fuselage upright just before punching out of the firewall going
forward. The small wires are no problem, it's things like the tach cable (mechanical
tach, anyway).
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power, 72x36 Culver prop
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=465089#465089
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | helspersew(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Corvair Piet performance report--nose tank sketch |
Hi Rick,
Did you lean the pilot's seat back on yours? I would do that if I had to do
over again. I did move the seat straight to the rear by 1/2" in., but that
doesn't help the aching legs and feet on those long trips. My longest leg
was 2 1/2 hours from Mt. Vernon IL back to Loensloe last summer. That was t
he end of that "Longest Day", 15 hours in a Pietenpol before the sun set.
Dan Helsper
Loensloe Airfield
Puryear, TN
-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Schreiber <lmforge(at)earthlink.net>
Sent: Sat, Jan 14, 2017 8:03 pm
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Piet performance report--nose tank ske
tch
It really is working out well Mike. As I said, I plagiarized what you
had already done. Putting the rear extension into the shelf area as yo
u did is a better way to go as it gives more support to the tank. That
area behind the front IP is wasted space anyways. I was just trying t
o simplify the tank construction. Until I actually did the fuel flow t
esting, I was afraid I would have to use ram air to pressurize the tan
k, but fortunately it wasn't necessary. I have taken off now with a fu
ll 18 gal tank and all works well, however that gives me 3 hrs flight
time with a 1/2 hour reserve. So far my longest flight has been 2-1/2
hours. As much as I like flying the Piet, I was ready to land and take
a break at 2-1/2 hours. When I used to hear people say 2 hours was
long enough in a Pietenpol I was wondering what is the problem? I f
ly over 3 hour legs in my TriPacer all the time with no problem. With
a Pietenpol is it lack of padding in an uncomfortable seat? The noise?
The wind buffet? For me its just like driving a motorcycle for a long
distance. Its the fact that you can never relax like you can in a car
, or a more modern enclosed cockpit aircraft. You have to fly it all t
he time. Not that I am complaining, its just a different kind of flyin
g. In all respects it is more enjoyable than flying the TriPacer, but
17 or 18 gallons of fuel is certainly enough.
Rick Schreiber
NX478RS
Porter Co Regional, Valparaiso IN
On 1/14/2017 6:53 PM, Michael Cuy wrote:
http://www.westcoastpiet.com/images/Mike_Cuy/Image/PietNoseTankSketch.jpg.j
pg
Glad to hear your nose tank is working out Rick. Love my 17 gal
lon nose tank. No header tank, no muss, no lines running from a
center section tank (my center section is all baggage)
Mike C.
On Sat, Jan 14, 2017 at 1:39 PM, Rick Schreiber wrote:
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Rick Schreiber"
Vincent,
Here is what I did. My tank is 18 gal. I am only using
gravity feed to the carb, no fuel pump was required. When
I ran the fuel flow test, with the plane at about a 16 degr
ee angle of attack, there was plenty of head pressure. I don
=99t recall the actual figures, but it was way better th
an the 150% of max power fuel consumption required by the FAR.
The useable fuel was also almost the full 18 gallons except f
or a few ounces. The last fuel flow test was actually done wit
h 48 ounces of fuel and the fuel flow was fine.
I have attached some photos and a dimensioned drawing of
the tank. My tank design followed pretty much what Mike
Cuy did, except I did not add in the rear extension. If I h
ad to do it again I would put in the rear extension that Mike
has as it gives more support to the tank rear. It makes it a l
ittle more difficult to construct the tank, but I think it
=99s worth it. If you are following my tank dimensions, I w
ould make it slightly narrower. My tank is a little tight when
trying to run the fuel shut off, throttle and carb heat cable
s.
The tank support is two stainless steel straps running
fore and aft. These straps attach to the forward ash piece
at the firewall and the shelf behind the front cockpit ins
trument panel. This shelf is reinforced with =C2=BE=9Dx 4=9D
Douglas fir. There is a secondary support that goes left
and right under the tank, also made of Douglas fir. Fina
lly there is a top strap that goes across the top bow of the t
ank.
The attached photos should give you a good idea of what I
did. Also check Mike Cuys photos on the West Cost Piet
website, as that's where I shamelessly plagiarized my ideas
.
Regards,
Rick Schreiber
NX478RS
Porter Co Regional, Valparaiso IN
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=465070#465070
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/pietnosetanksketchmike_cuy
_372.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/line_drawing_nx478rs_989.j
pg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/aimg_0623_188.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/aimg_0397_198.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/a100_2113_102.jpg
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | helspersew(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Corvair Piet performance report--nose tank sketch |
Hi Rick,
Did you lean the pilot's seat back on yours? I would do that if I had to do
over again. I did move the seat straight to the rear by 1/2" in., but that
doesn't help the aching legs and feet on those long trips. My longest leg
was 2 1/2 hours from Mt. Vernon IL back to Loensloe last summer. That was t
he end of that "Longest Day", 15 hours in a Pietenpol before the sun set.
Dan Helsper
Loensloe Airfield
Puryear, TN
-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Schreiber <lmforge(at)earthlink.net>
Sent: Sat, Jan 14, 2017 8:03 pm
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Piet performance report--nose tank ske
tch
It really is working out well Mike. As I said, I plagiarized what you
had already done. Putting the rear extension into the shelf area as yo
u did is a better way to go as it gives more support to the tank. That
area behind the front IP is wasted space anyways. I was just trying t
o simplify the tank construction. Until I actually did the fuel flow t
esting, I was afraid I would have to use ram air to pressurize the tan
k, but fortunately it wasn't necessary. I have taken off now with a fu
ll 18 gal tank and all works well, however that gives me 3 hrs flight
time with a 1/2 hour reserve. So far my longest flight has been 2-1/2
hours. As much as I like flying the Piet, I was ready to land and take
a break at 2-1/2 hours. When I used to hear people say 2 hours was
long enough in a Pietenpol I was wondering what is the problem? I f
ly over 3 hour legs in my TriPacer all the time with no problem. With
a Pietenpol is it lack of padding in an uncomfortable seat? The noise?
The wind buffet? For me its just like driving a motorcycle for a long
distance. Its the fact that you can never relax like you can in a car
, or a more modern enclosed cockpit aircraft. You have to fly it all t
he time. Not that I am complaining, its just a different kind of flyin
g. In all respects it is more enjoyable than flying the TriPacer, but
17 or 18 gallons of fuel is certainly enough.
Rick Schreiber
NX478RS
Porter Co Regional, Valparaiso IN
On 1/14/2017 6:53 PM, Michael Cuy wrote:
http://www.westcoastpiet.com/images/Mike_Cuy/Image/PietNoseTankSketch.jpg.j
pg
Glad to hear your nose tank is working out Rick. Love my 17 gal
lon nose tank. No header tank, no muss, no lines running from a
center section tank (my center section is all baggage)
Mike C.
On Sat, Jan 14, 2017 at 1:39 PM, Rick Schreiber wrote:
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Rick Schreiber"
Vincent,
Here is what I did. My tank is 18 gal. I am only using
gravity feed to the carb, no fuel pump was required. When
I ran the fuel flow test, with the plane at about a 16 degr
ee angle of attack, there was plenty of head pressure. I don
=99t recall the actual figures, but it was way better th
an the 150% of max power fuel consumption required by the FAR.
The useable fuel was also almost the full 18 gallons except f
or a few ounces. The last fuel flow test was actually done wit
h 48 ounces of fuel and the fuel flow was fine.
I have attached some photos and a dimensioned drawing of
the tank. My tank design followed pretty much what Mike
Cuy did, except I did not add in the rear extension. If I h
ad to do it again I would put in the rear extension that Mike
has as it gives more support to the tank rear. It makes it a l
ittle more difficult to construct the tank, but I think it
=99s worth it. If you are following my tank dimensions, I w
ould make it slightly narrower. My tank is a little tight when
trying to run the fuel shut off, throttle and carb heat cable
s.
The tank support is two stainless steel straps running
fore and aft. These straps attach to the forward ash piece
at the firewall and the shelf behind the front cockpit ins
trument panel. This shelf is reinforced with =C2=BE=9Dx 4=9D
Douglas fir. There is a secondary support that goes left
and right under the tank, also made of Douglas fir. Fina
lly there is a top strap that goes across the top bow of the t
ank.
The attached photos should give you a good idea of what I
did. Also check Mike Cuys photos on the West Cost Piet
website, as that's where I shamelessly plagiarized my ideas
.
Regards,
Rick Schreiber
NX478RS
Porter Co Regional, Valparaiso IN
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=465070#465070
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/pietnosetanksketchmike_cuy
_372.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/line_drawing_nx478rs_989.j
pg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/aimg_0623_188.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/aimg_0397_198.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/a100_2113_102.jpg
====================
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "M W Stanley" <mmrally(at)nifty.com> |
| Subject: | Re: a whole page of Piet sketches---web link below |
Hi Mike,
Thanks for the link to your sketches, looks like some good stuff there!
Cheers
Mark Stanley
From: Michael Cuy
Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2017 10:00 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: a whole page of Piet sketches---web link below
For those of you who are newer to the list, here's a page of a few of
the miscellaneous sketches that I've drawn to help others along while
building their
Pietenpol. Scroll down after you get to the page.
The fuel tank sketch/installation is in there along with a bunch of
other sketches---of possible interest.
http://www.westcoastpiet.com/images/Mike_Cuy/Sketches.html
Mike C.
NX48MC
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Corvair Piet performance report--nose tank sketch |
| From: | Richard Schreiber <lmforge(at)earthlink.net> |
Hi Dan,
Yes I did lean my seat back. I think it was 10 deg, whatever "Uncle"
Tony recommended. I have no problem with seat comfort. I am using
temporary temperfoam pads until I decided what thickness and density I
want.
Dan you are truly an Iron Man. I can't imagine flying for 15 hours. I
have done 10 hours at a stretch in the TriPacer coming back from out
west, but I had my Wife along with me to fly a little if I needed a break.
On my Piet I still need to add a little left rudder to keep flying
co-ordinated. I did not offset my rudder to counter act P-factor. I may
wind up doing that eventually. I do not want to add any trim tabs.
Rick Schreiber
NX478RS
Porter Co Regional, Valparaiso IN
On 1/15/2017 5:12 AM, helspersew(at)aol.com wrote:
> Hi Rick,
>
> Did you lean the pilot's seat back on yours? I would do that if I had
> to do over again. I did move the seat straight to the rear by 1/2"
> in., but that doesn't help the aching legs and feet on those long
> trips. My longest leg was 2 1/2 hours from Mt. Vernon IL back to
> Loensloe last summer. That was the end of that "Longest Day", 15 hours
> in a Pietenpol before the sun set.
>
> Dan Helsper
> Loensloe Airfield
> Puryear, TN
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Corvair Piet performance report--nose tank sketch |
| From: | Richard Schreiber <lmforge(at)earthlink.net> |
Oscar,
You are very right! Planning the routing of the throttle, carb heat,
fuel shut off cables before hand is important if you are making a front
bay nose tank. When I designed mine I thought I was allowing enough
clearance for the tank, but forgot to allow for the flanges on all the
tank seams. That made for a little tighter fit that I had planned on.
Rick Schreiber
NX478RS
Porter Co Regional, Valparaiso IN
On 1/14/2017 9:49 PM, taildrags wrote:
>
> Also forgot to mention... plan your cable routing before you figure out your
fuel tank. Like others have mentioned, it can get VERY tight getting cables from
the rear cockpit to the engine compartment past the fuel tank, especially
since you can't take a straight line going through the firewall... you have to
dodge around the fuselage upright just before punching out of the firewall going
forward. The small wires are no problem, it's things like the tach cable
(mechanical tach, anyway).
>
> --------
> Oscar Zuniga
> Medford, OR
> Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
> A75 power, 72x36 Culver prop
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=465089#465089
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Corvair Piet performance report--nose tank sketch |
| From: | "Rick Schreiber" <lmforge(at)earthlink.net> |
I forgot to post a picture of me trying on the rear cockpit seat for fit. With
the side off you can clealy see the leanback.
Rick Schreiber
NX478RS
Porter Co Regional, Valparaiso IN
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=465111#465111
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0601a_155.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | helspersew(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Corvair Piet performance report--nose tank sketch |
I just went back and checked my logs. It was only 12 hours of flying....but 15
hours overall that day to get home from OSH. Long but truly satisfying.
Dan Helsper
Loensloe Airfield
Puryear, TN
-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Schreiber <lmforge(at)earthlink.net>
Sent: Sun, Jan 15, 2017 1:49 pm
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Piet performance report--nose tank sketch
Hi Dan,
Yes I did lean my seat back. I think it was 10 deg, whatever "Uncle" Tony
recommended. I have no problem with seat comfort. I am using temporary temperfoam
pads until I decided what thickness and density I want.
Dan you are truly an Iron Man. I can't imagine flying for 15 hours. I have
done 10 hours at a stretch in the TriPacer coming back from out west, but
I had my Wife along with me to fly a little if I needed a break.
On my Piet I still need to add a little left rudder to keep flying co-ordinated.
I did not offset my rudder to counter act P-factor. I may wind up
doing that eventually. I do not want to add any trim tabs.
Rick Schreiber
NX478RS
Porter Co Regional, Valparaiso IN
On 1/15/2017 5:12 AM, helspersew(at)aol.com wrote:
Hi Rick,
Did you lean the pilot's seat back on yours? I would do that if I had
to do over again. I did move the seat straight to the rear by 1/2" in.,
but that doesn't help the aching legs and feet on those long trips.
My longest leg was 2 1/2 hours from Mt. Vernon IL back to Loensloe
last summer. That was the end of that "Longest Day", 15 hours in a Pietenpol
before the sun set.
Dan Helsper
Loensloe Airfield
Puryear, TN
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Corvair Piet performance report |
| From: | "at7000ft" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
Beautiful Piet Rick, mine is just about the same, 2700 cc Corvair, 17 gal front
cowl tank also designed starting from Mike Cuy's design (welded aluminum), 736
lbs empty. Gravity feed to an MA3-SPA. Have a 66x30 Tennesse prop which gives
me 3000 rpm full throttle level flight. 100 hrs TT and is a blast to fly (as
long as the temperature is 50 or above here in Colorado).
Rick H
--------
Rick Holland
NX6819Z
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=465143#465143
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Final trimmed tail post measurement |
| From: | "Pocono John" <tinmotion(at)yahoo.com> |
I just trimmed a tail post. It looks fine except one thing. My cut was measured
1/2" from the inside, forgetting about the gusset. So that tail post is now .625
wide, not .50 because of the gusset. If I do the same on the other half, my
tail will be 1 1/4" wide, not 1".
Is that a big deal? Is the tail post supposed to be 1" with or without the gussets
included?
I can easy knock off another 1/8".just wondering. I can't seem to find it in the
plans (probably right in front of me too).
Thanks!
John
--------
John
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=465146#465146
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Final trimmed tail post measurement |
| From: | "aviken" <aviken(at)hughes.net> |
I am not 100 percent sure but I believe the one inch is before the gusset . Most
of the measurements are of the frame work not the gussets.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=465147#465147
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Corvair Piet performance report |
| From: | "Rick Schreiber" <lmforge(at)earthlink.net> |
Thanks for the compliment Rick. You have certainly built a nice looking Piet yourself.
I have been following your build for some time now looking for ideas as
you were a lot farther along than me.
My performance figures have changed a little from what I first posted. I now have
30 hours on the engine and here is what I am getting now.
WOT level flight 2800 RPM, just shy of 100 mph indicated
WOT climb out 2675 RPM, 65 mph = about 700 fpm climb at 60 deg
2200 rpm cruise = 75 mph
2100 rpm cruise = 65 mph
The indicated airspeeds agree with my onboard gps pretty close.
What rpm's are you running to get 65 to 75 mph in cruise?
Rick Schreiber
NX478RS
Porter Co Regional, Valparaiso IN
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=465148#465148
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Vertical Offset w/Corvair |
| From: | "Harvey Plummer" <plummerharvey(at)yahoo.com> |
Did you guys with a corvair engine offset the front of your vertical stabilizer
1/2" - 3/4" to the left like I have seen those with A65 or O200 engine did?
Rick Schreiber did you offset yours? Results?
Thanks.
--------
Harv, 485PB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=465160#465160
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Vertical Offset w/Corvair |
| From: | "Rick Schreiber" <lmforge(at)earthlink.net> |
Harv,
No I didn't offset mine, consequently I always have to input a little left rudder
in cruise. My plan is to take core of the offset this winter.
Rick Schreiber
NX478RS
Porter Co Regional, Valparaiso IN
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=465161#465161
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Vertical Offset w/Corvair |
| From: | "Harvey Plummer" <plummerharvey(at)yahoo.com> |
So Rick, does the front of the vertical stabilizer need to be offset to the left
or the right with the Corvair engine?
--------
Harv, 485PB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=465167#465167
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Vertical Offset w/Corvair |
| From: | "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
So let's think about this. We're above Rick's airplane looking down on it as he's
flying. The nose wants to pull to the right, so Rick is applying left rudder
to keep the airplane going straight. As he presses left rudder, the cable
on that side pulls the port side rudder horn and the rudder deflects to port,
which causes the tail to swing to starboard and bring the nose straight. Looking
down on the airplane, it rotates counter-clockwise to bring the nose straight.
So what do we have to do to the leading edge of the vertical stabilizer to get
that same counter-clockwise rotation? We offset it to starboard so that more
of the port side is presented to the relative wind, 'pressing' the tail to starboard.
The LE of the vertical stabilizer on my airplane, which has a Continental
engine that rotates in the opposite direction from the Corvair, is offset
1/2" to the port side but still needs a small rudder trim tab. I think 3/4"
offset would have been better, but I worried about twisting the vertical stabilizer
beam too much by doing that.
There is a picture of the offset on my LE here: http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_1848_571.jpg
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power, 72x36 Culver prop
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=465177#465177
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles N. Campbell" <charlescampbell1924(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Vertical Offset w/Corvair |
Oscar, why not make you some new L-shaped brackets to go on the top rear of
the vertical stabilizer and twist them the correct number of degrees. That
way the vertical piece in the stabilizer would not be twisted at all. Chuck
On Tue, Jan 17, 2017 at 10:58 PM, taildrags wrote:
>
> So let's think about this. We're above Rick's airplane looking down on it
> as he's flying. The nose wants to pull to the right, so Rick is applying
> left rudder to keep the airplane going straight. As he presses left
> rudder, the cable on that side pulls the port side rudder horn and the
> rudder deflects to port, which causes the tail to swing to starboard and
> bring the nose straight. Looking down on the airplane, it rotates
> counter-clockwise to bring the nose straight.
>
> So what do we have to do to the leading edge of the vertical stabilizer to
> get that same counter-clockwise rotation? We offset it to starboard so
> that more of the port side is presented to the relative wind, 'pressing'
> the tail to starboard. The LE of the vertical stabilizer on my airplane,
> which has a Continental engine that rotates in the opposite direction from
> the Corvair, is offset 1/2" to the port side but still needs a small rudder
> trim tab. I think 3/4" offset would have been better, but I worried about
> twisting the vertical stabilizer beam too much by doing that.
>
> There is a picture of the offset on my LE here:
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_1848_571.jpg
>
> --------
> Oscar Zuniga
> Medford, OR
> Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
> A75 power, 72x36 Culver prop
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=465177#465177
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles N. Campbell" <charlescampbell1924(at)gmail.com> |
November 13, 2016 - January 18, 2017
Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-pn