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May 10, 2017 - September 10, 2017

> Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/diamondwirecatalog_849.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/die_springs_info_169.png > > -- Blue Skies, Steve D ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: DIe Spring gear
From: "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com>
Date: May 10, 2017
Steve, Here is a copy of the invoice for what William Wynne had me order for fabricating the gear. -------- Semper Fi, Terry Hand Athens, GA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=469199#469199 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/tubing_order_466.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 10, 2017
From: John Franklin <jbfjr(at)peoplepc.com>
Subject: Re: DIe Spring gear
Terry, I don't see any 2-1/4" tubing on the invoice. Did WW not use that for your application or perhaps he already had some? Thanks, John F. -----Original Message----- >From: jarheadpilot82 <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com> >Sent: May 10, 2017 10:18 AM >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: DIe Spring gear > > >Steve, > >Here is a copy of the invoice for what William Wynne had me order for fabricating the gear. > >-------- >Semper Fi, > >Terry Hand >Athens, GA > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=469199#469199 > > >Attachments: > >http://forums.matronics.com//files/tubing_order_466.jpg > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ben Charvet <bencharvet(at)gmail.com>
Date: May 10, 2017
Subject: Re: DIe Spring gear
I used heavy walled so the old lower end slid inside it Sent from my iPhone > On May 10, 2017, at 11:00 AM, Steven Dortch wr ote: > > OK Terry, I just got off the phone with Diamondwire. Two EH200-600 springs are on their way to New Berlin, Texas. > > I have drawn everything out and once I have the springs will hit my welder up. > > Did anyone use their old Bungee system for parts? > > Also. I am just confirming, the 1 inch diameter is a heavy walled tube, o r is it solid bar? > > Blue Skies, > Steve D > >> On Wed, May 10, 2017 at 9:09 AM, jarheadpilot82 wrote: tmail.com> >> >> Steve, >> >> FWIW, these are the die springs that I used in my gear. They were a good b it cheaper than ACS or Wag Aero, but with the needed strength as indicated b y William in his article. >> >> YMMV. Hope it helps. >> >> -------- >> Semper Fi, >> >> Terry Hand >> Athens, GA >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=469197#469197 >> >> >> >> >> Attachments: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com//files/diamondwirecatalog_849.jpg >> http://forums.matronics.com//files/die_springs_info_169.png >> >> >> >> ========================= >> br> enpol-List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics .com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List >> ========================= >> FORUMS - >> eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com >> ========================= >> WIKI - >> errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com >> ========================= >> b Site - >> -Matt Dralle, List Admin. >> rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contributio n >> ========================= >> >> >> > > > > -- > Blue Skies, > Steve D ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Ragwing Ultra-Piet
From: "cdlwingnut" <lee_chad(at)hotmail.com>
Date: May 11, 2017
A picture of my ribs and fuselage side Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=469225#469225 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/20170503_175635_resized_549.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com>
Date: May 11, 2017
Subject: Heim bearings for landing gear struts.
I have ordered material for my die spring struts. However, Terry hands pictures show heim bearings. Others don't. My current bungee system just has holes drilled in the tube. Opinions? ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Heim bearings for landing gear struts.
From: "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Date: May 11, 2017
Steve; if you'll read William's description of how he built the gear on (I believe it was) Terry's airplane, the ball end fittings were used to allow for perfect alignment and orientation of the landing gear geometry. If you were building a jig to produce numbers of this landing gear all the same, you would work out the exact weldment shapes and tubing lengths using the ball joints and once it was all dialed in, you would then jig it all up for production and eliminate the adjustability (and save a little weight in the process). Building a one-off, the ball end fittings give you a means of adjusting the geometry in almost all three axes to get it spot-on without having to rework joints and fiddle with it endlessly. I'll have to go back and re-read the narrative, but I think that's what William was describing in the build-up using the ball end fittings. If your welder does a careful job with jigging, welding, and measuring as he/she fabricates, you'll end up pretty good without the ball end fittings. If not, your airplane may not track straight or it might wear one tire faster than the other, or exhibit other slightly funny things. I could just say that Mr. Pietenpol never used ball end fittings on his landing gear, but then again I also reserve the right to get smarter and learn nifty tricks that other builders have developed in the years since 1929! -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power, 72x36 Culver prop Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=469232#469232 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: DIe Spring gear
From: "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com>
Date: May 12, 2017
John F., I measured the die spring "can" and it was indeed 2.25 tubing. I can only assume that William already had some on hand, but that does appear to be what it was made of. Hope that helps. -------- Semper Fi, Terry Hand Athens, GA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=469233#469233 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Heim bearings for landing gear struts.
From: "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com>
Date: May 12, 2017
In case others have not seen what Steve is talking about, here are photos of the ends of the die spring rods on my gear - -------- Semper Fi, Terry Hand Athens, GA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=469234#469234 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_8885_134.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_8884_945.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 12, 2017
Subject: Re: Heim bearings for landing gear struts.
From: "Andre B. Charvet" <bencharvet(at)gmail.com>
SSByZXVzZWQgbXkgc3RydXQgZW5kcy4gVGhlcmUgaXNuJ3QgbXVjaCByb3RhdGlvbiBvbiB0aGUg YXNzZW1ibHkuCkJlbgoKT24gTWF5IDExLCAyMDE3LCBhdCA1OjI5IFBNLCBTdGV2ZW4gRG9ydGNo IDxzdGV2ZW4uZC5kb3J0Y2hAZ21haWwuY29tPiB3cm90ZToKCkkgaGF2ZSBvcmRlcmVkIG1hdGVy aWFsIGZvciBteSBkaWUgc3ByaW5nIHN0cnV0cy7CoAoKCkhvd2V2ZXIsIFRlcnJ5IGhhbmRzIHBp Y3R1cmVzIHNob3cgaGVpbSBiZWFyaW5ncy4gT3RoZXJzIGRvbid0LiBNeSBjdXJyZW50IGJ1bmdl ZSBzeXN0ZW0ganVzdCBoYXMgaG9sZXMgZHJpbGxlZCBpbiB0aGUgdHViZS4KCgpPcGluaW9ucz8K Cg= ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: DIe Spring gear
From: "tkreiner" <tkreiner(at)gmail.com>
Date: May 12, 2017
Terry, After reviewing the list of materials WW had you purchase, I'm scratching my head wondering the gear is constructed. Would it be possible to get a sketch of the gear showing tube sizes; i.e., what goes where? Obviously, some tubing needs to telescope within others, but the lengths shown on the Invoice don't make complete sense without some form of a sketch or drawing. If you can pull a sketch together, I'll create a formal drawing and post online for all to review. Thanks, -------- Tom Kreiner Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=469241#469241 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com>
Date: May 12, 2017
Subject: Re: DIe Spring gear
per aircraft spruce the inside diameter (ID) of 2.25 inch outer diameter tubing is 2.10 inch. This allows a 2 inch washer room to move in the "can". On May 12, 2017 3:53 AM, "jarheadpilot82" wrote: jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com> John F., I measured the die spring "can" and it was indeed 2.25 tubing. I can only assume that William already had some on hand, but that does appear to be what it was made of. Hope that helps. -------- Semper Fi, Terry Hand Athens, GA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=469233#469233 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Visit to US
From: "oldbird" <semihoksay(at)gmail.com>
Date: May 12, 2017
Hi All I will be visiting US in June. I will stay in Orlando, Fl. Can you help me find an Air Camper in the vicinity? I will have car and bike provisions. Regards Semih Oksay Istanbul, Turkey Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=469244#469244 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com>
Date: May 12, 2017
Subject: BPA Newsletter
I got my Brodhead Pietenpol Association newsletter for the Second Quarter 2017. Great publication as usual. If you are not a member I suggest joining. Of course there were lots of pretty pictures and good articles. Douwe's article on how to using aluminum tubing to dress up your cowling was well written. It reminds me that in my cocpit. I used PVC tubing cut into sections and split to put on the sharp edge of the alumium around the cockpit. After putting the PVC on I covered it with Black foam plumbing insulation from the aviation section at Lowes and covered that with Pleather and laced it on with holes drilled in the metal. The lacing was a US Army Bootlace! Douwe's Tailwheel Control horn length article hit home. I am quite Glad I saw this, Mine was attached to a set of inside holes, thus the pedals were set up to over control my plane on the ground. Based on this article, I will reattach the rudder wires to the outer holes which are close to the width of the Rudder horns. This should result in neutral steering. Clay Hammond's article on the Old Rhinebeck Aerodrome fly-in has promted me to keep the newsletter informed about the fly-ins and events at the Old Kingsbury Aerodrome in South Texas. It is very similar to Old Rhinebeck and indeed has a Model T powered Pietenpol Scout! Thanks Pat for the great newsletter. BTW I still like having it in paper. Blue Skies, Steve "The Luddite" D ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: DIe Spring gear
From: "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com>
Date: May 12, 2017
I am currently out of the country, but will be back tomorrow. I will try to get some measurements together over the weekend and post them. -------- Semper Fi, Terry Hand Athens, GA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=469247#469247 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ben Charvet <bencharvet(at)gmail.com>
Date: May 12, 2017
Subject: Re: Visit to US
I have one in Titusville, which is 30 miles east of Orlando Sent from my iPhone > On May 12, 2017, at 1:23 PM, oldbird wrote: > > > Hi All > > I will be visiting US in June. I will stay in Orlando, Fl. Can you help me find an Air Camper in the vicinity? I will have car and bike provisions. > > Regards > > Semih Oksay > Istanbul, Turkey > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=469244#469244 > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com>
Date: May 12, 2017
Subject: Re: DIe Spring gear
Terry, my interests are in what size Heim bearings you used. Man thanks for the help. Blue Skies, Steve D On Fri, May 12, 2017 at 12:32 PM, jarheadpilot82 wrote: > jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com> > > I am currently out of the country, but will be back tomorrow. I will try > to get some measurements together over the weekend and post them. > > -------- > Semper Fi, > > Terry Hand > Athens, GA > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=469247#469247 > > -- Blue Skies, Steve D ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jack Textor <jack(at)textors.com>
Date: May 12, 2017
Subject: Re: BPA Newsletter
Yes, high quality editing, pictures paper and print! Jack Textor Sent from my iPad > On May 12, 2017, at 12:26 PM, Steven Dortch wr ote: > > I got my Brodhead Pietenpol Association newsletter for the Second Quarter 2 017. Great publication as usual. If you are not a member I suggest joining. O f course there were lots of pretty pictures and good articles. > > > > Douwe's article on how to using aluminum tubing to dress up your cowling w as well written. It reminds me that in my cocpit. I used PVC tubing cut into sections and split to put on the sharp edge of the alumium around the cock pit. After putting the PVC on I covered it with Black foam plumbing insulati on from the aviation section at Lowes and covered that with Pleather and la ced it on with holes drilled in the metal. The lacing was a US Army Bootlace ! > > > > Douwe's Tailwheel Control horn length article hit home. I am quite Glad I s aw this, Mine was attached to a set of inside holes, thus the pedals were se t up to over control my plane on the ground. Based on this article, I will r eattach the rudder wires to the outer holes which are close to the width of t he Rudder horns. This should result in neutral steering. > > > > Clay Hammond's article on the Old Rhinebeck Aerodrome fly-in has promted m e to keep the newsletter informed about the fly-ins and events at the Old Ki ngsbury Aerodrome in South Texas. It is very similar to Old Rhinebeck and in deed has a Model T powered Pietenpol Scout! > > > > Thanks Pat for the great newsletter. BTW I still like having it in paper. > > > > Blue Skies, > > Steve "The Luddite" D ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com>
Date: May 12, 2017
Subject: OT opinion from the peanut gallery
BLUF. I might have an option on getting an Aeronca 7AC Champ. What is y'alls opinion on using it as a training aircraft? Plusses and minuses, VS say the Cessna 172 or 152. -- Blue Skies, Steve D ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: OT opinion from the peanut gallery
From: "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com>
Date: May 12, 2017
Steve, IMHO, I have always thought (other things being equal) that a tandem seat aircraft made a better trainer than side by side, but that is what I learned and later taught in. Others may think differently. -------- Semper Fi, Terry Hand Athens, GA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=469262#469262 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: DIe Spring gear
From: "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com>
Date: May 12, 2017
wilco. -------- Semper Fi, Terry Hand Athens, GA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=469263#469263 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com>
Date: May 12, 2017
Subject: Re: OT opinion from the peanut gallery
Terry, i learned in Cessna 150s. I think side by side enhances learning. tandem taildraggers may make better seat of the pants pilots. On May 12, 2017 11:13 PM, "jarheadpilot82" wrote: > jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com> > > Steve, > > IMHO, I have always thought (other things being equal) that a tandem seat > aircraft made a better trainer than side by side, but that is what I > learned and later taught in. Others may think differently. > > -------- > Semper Fi, > > Terry Hand > Athens, GA > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=469262#469262 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douwe(at)douwestudios.com>
Subject: Semih's Florida visit
Date: May 13, 2017
HI Semih, I'm not sure if you are already a member, but I suggest you join the Pietenpol facebook page and let them know of your upcoming visit as well. I love this forum, but find there are many more followers of the facebook page. Might help find more Piets in the Orlando area. Good luck! Douwe ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Glen Schweizer <glenschweizer(at)yahoo.com>
Date: May 13, 2017
Subject: Re: OT opinion from the peanut gallery
Hi all After being out of the sky for almost 20 years,last August I had an opportunity to pick up at 172 so I did. I got tired of hitching rides. Originally the idea was to get current and have something to fly while I'm building my peitenpol, then sell the 172. WHY would I do that? She's bought and paid for, doesn't owe me a dime, a nice XC airplane, reasonably cheap to opperate(7.5 gph )I could go on n on. Most importantly she's a very easy to fly, forgiving airplane(although I don't have to ask her forgiveness any more). So when the peit is done I'll have two airplane/girlfriends: one for play and one for play > On May 12, 2017, at 8:22 PM, Steven Dortch wrote: > > BLUF. I might have an option on getting an Aeronca 7AC Champ. What is y'alls opinion on using it as a training aircraft? Plusses and minuses, VS say the Cessna 172 or 152. > > -- > Blue Skies, > Steve D ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "(null) raykrause" <raykrause(at)frontiernet.net>
Subject: Re: OT opinion from the peanut gallery
Date: May 13, 2017
You will become a much better pilot by learning to fly in the Champ. But finding an instructor ( a good one) will be more difficult. If the potential instructor say he "loves" the Champ, he will be a good instructor. You are on the right path. But you will still need a few hours in the 170, or 172 to finish your instructions before the test. A lover of Champs who still owns one, Ray Krause Sent from my iPad > On May 12, 2017, at 8:22 PM, Steven Dortch wrote: > > BLUF. I might have an option on getting an Aeronca 7AC Champ. What is y'alls opinion on using it as a training aircraft? Plusses and minuses, VS say the Cessna 172 or 152. > > -- > Blue Skies, > Steve D ________________________________________________________________________________
From: John Weber <ransfly(at)aol.com>
Date: May 13, 2017
Subject: Re: OT opinion from the peanut gallery
If you can land a champ well, you can probably land most anything. John Weber Sent from my iPhone > On May 12, 2017, at 10:22 PM, Steven Dortch wrote: > > BLUF. I might have an option on getting an Aeronca 7AC Champ. What is y'alls opinion on using it as a training aircraft? Plusses and minuses, VS say the Cessna 172 or 152. > > -- > Blue Skies, > Steve D ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com>
Date: May 13, 2017
Subject: Re: OT opinion from the peanut gallery
Ray, I have 200 hours in this very champ. I was not clear, I am becoming a CFI and if I get this plane, what are the pros or cons? Vs a 172 or 152/150? On May 13, 2017 10:05 AM, "(null) raykrause" wrote: > raykrause(at)frontiernet.net> > > You will become a much better pilot by learning to fly in the Champ. But > finding an instructor ( a good one) will be more difficult. If the > potential instructor say he "loves" the Champ, he will be a good > instructor. You are on the right path. But you will still need a few hours > in the 170, or 172 to finish your instructions before the test. > > A lover of Champs who still owns one, > > Ray Krause > > Sent from my iPad > > > On May 12, 2017, at 8:22 PM, Steven Dortch > wrote: > > > > BLUF. I might have an option on getting an Aeronca 7AC Champ. What is > y'alls opinion on using it as a training aircraft? Plusses and minuses, VS > say the Cessna 172 or 152. > > > > -- > > Blue Skies, > > Steve D > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: OT opinion from the peanut gallery
From: "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Date: May 13, 2017
Steve: my comments follow. My first flight in an airplane was in a Luscombe. My first solo was in a J-3. My next first solo (I ran out of money in college and didn't fly again for 8 years) was in a Citabria GCAA. Do you see where this is going? ;o) If you get your CFI and can instruct in tailwheel aircraft, you will be in a rather sparse, if not elite, group of instructors who still do so. While it is easier to give dual in a side-by-side arrangement, I think receiving dual in a tandem aircraft gives the student less of "the instructor can see everything I'm doing wrong" feeling and also makes them have to think and act more independently. And my last comment, most military fighter pilots learn and fly in tandem-seating aircraft. Yes, there are many exceptions, but don't you want to be like a fighter pilot/instructor? ;o) -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power, 72x36 Culver prop Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=469278#469278 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Scott Knowlton <flyingscott_k(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: OT opinion from the peanut gallery
Date: May 13, 2017
Oscar and Pietenpeople Well said Oscar! I don't come from a fighter pilot background but I've been blessed with lots of instructing opportunities in tailwheel airplanes for 25 years. I wholeheartedly agree that the best place for the student is in the front of a tandem and the best place for an instructor is of course in the back. I've taught zero time ab initio in Champs, trike to tailwheel conversions (it isn't classed as a rating in Canada) and done a multitude of tow pilot training and check outs in Citabrias and Cessna L-19s. >From the perspective of the student he/she learns the effects of yaw and develops a centreline sight picture far quicker in a tandem than in a side by each. Tandem aircraft are typically longer coupled contributing to a greater forgiveness in ground handling. As Oscar said, whether dual or solo the student can't see their instructor - great for confidence during the first solo compared to that cavernous empty seat sitting next to them! >From the rear seat you can see the beginnings of a yaw event much sooner as the yaw picture is amplified as you move back from the C of G (aiming a rifle vs a pistol analogy); you can shadow the stick and rudder without student awareness (great confidence builder) and finally you can quietly sit and enjoy the view of a summer flying evening without your student wondering why your body language suggests you're completely unengaged in their lesson! I don't have a business providing tailwheel competency - people contact me through friends and colleagues. I never feel I'm "cutting the grass" of a new flight instructor hungry for hours because few if any have tailwheel skills to begin with. This wouldn't be the case if I taught in a trike. My day job is training and checking on the line and in the simulator at my airline. I'm used to keen, motivated and engaged candidates. By no coincidence, pilots who wish to master tailwheel skills are cut from the same cloth. This makes for a great experience every time I go flying with them. My vote is the Champ. Scott Knowlton > On May 13, 2017, at 4:54 PM, taildrags wrote: > > > Steve: my comments follow. > > My first flight in an airplane was in a Luscombe. My first solo was in a J-3. My next first solo (I ran out of money in college and didn't fly again for 8 years) was in a Citabria GCAA. Do you see where this is going? ;o) > > If you get your CFI and can instruct in tailwheel aircraft, you will be in a rather sparse, if not elite, group of instructors who still do so. > > While it is easier to give dual in a side-by-side arrangement, I think receiving dual in a tandem aircraft gives the student less of "the instructor can see everything I'm doing wrong" feeling and also makes them have to think and act more independently. > > And my last comment, most military fighter pilots learn and fly in tandem-seating aircraft. Yes, there are many exceptions, but don't you want to be like a fighter pilot/instructor? ;o) > > -------- > Oscar Zuniga > Medford, OR > Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" > A75 power, 72x36 Culver prop > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=469278#469278 > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "(null) raykrause" <raykrause(at)frontiernet.net>
Subject: Re: OT opinion from the peanut gallery
Date: May 13, 2017
Steven, In my estimate, the Champ is a real plane. It is very simple, the essence of flight. Whenever you think you know how to fly it, it will bite you in the b utt and make you very humble. If you can fly the Champ well, you can fly any thing. Most other planes will fly faster and further, consume more gas and m ake you look like an expert...and really cool. But anyone who can REALLY fly a Champ will understand. My grandson learned in our Champ and got his license when he was a senior in high school. In just a few hours he was flying the 172. He is a much better pilot than I ever will be. However, I also learned to fly in a Champ 69 yea rs ago...not the same plane, but a 7 AC. TODAY's young people just learn b etter and faster. Enjoy the Champ, you will never regret it. Become a real pilot! Ray Krause SkyScout should fly this summer! Sent from my iPad > On May 13, 2017, at 8:13 AM, Steven Dortch wro te: > > Ray, I have 200 hours in this very champ. > I was not clear, I am becoming a CFI and if I get this plane, what are the pros or cons? Vs a 172 or 152/150? > >> On May 13, 2017 10:05 AM, "(null) raykrause" w rote: iernet.net> >> >> You will become a much better pilot by learning to fly in the Champ. But f inding an instructor ( a good one) will be more difficult. If the potential i nstructor say he "loves" the Champ, he will be a good instructor. You are on the right path. But you will still need a few hours in the 170, or 172 to f inish your instructions before the test. >> >> A lover of Champs who still owns one, >> >> Ray Krause >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> > On May 12, 2017, at 8:22 PM, Steven Dortch w rote: >> > >> > BLUF. I might have an option on getting an Aeronca 7AC Champ. What is y 'alls opinion on using it as a training aircraft? Plusses and minuses, VS sa y the Cessna 172 or 152. >> > >> > -- >> > Blue Skies, >> > Steve D >> >> >> ========================= >> br> enpol-List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics .com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List >> ========================= >> FORUMS - >> eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com >> ========================= >> WIKI - >> errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com >> ========================= >> b Site - >> -Matt Dralle, List Admin. >> rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contributio n >> ========================= >> >> >> ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: BPA Newsletter
From: "womenfly2" <Love2Fly.KAP(at)gmail.com>
Date: May 14, 2017
Anyone receive a newsletter? WF2 -------- Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=469290#469290 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com>
Date: May 14, 2017
Subject: Re: BPA Newsletter
Yes! On May 14, 2017 6:57 AM, "womenfly2" wrote: > > Anyone receive a newsletter? > > WF2 > > -------- > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=469290#469290 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: BPA Newsletter
From: "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Date: May 14, 2017
My copy made it across the 2,067 miles from Brodhead to Oregon last week. Great articles and information, but the cover photo alone was worth it. Prospective Air Camper builders and pilots would do well to study that photo in detail, as it captures the airplane's classic lines and geometry and is crisp enough to answer a lot of questions about building details. The fact that the photo was taken in flight tells a bit about what size the cockpit is and how tall the windscreens should be, but best of all it conveys the Piet flying experience as well as a photo can. You can look at the Ford engine and mentally set the airplane at the airspeed it's going and the engine at the RPM it's turning and you're there. -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power, 72x36 Culver prop Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=469302#469302 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Heim bearings for landing gear struts.
From: "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com>
Date: May 14, 2017
Steve, Let me give you the measurements as seen in the picture above - The space between the plates that the bearing sits in is approximately 0.75 inch. The diameter of the bolt going through the bearing and both plates is 0.375 inch. The threads on the shank of the bearing are, I am guessing, 0.875 as the inner diameter of the 1.00 inch tubing with 0.83 wall thickness is 0.834 inch. Let me know if I need t measure anything else. -------- Semper Fi, Terry Hand Athens, GA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=469313#469313 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: DIe Spring gear
From: "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com>
Date: May 14, 2017
Look at the pictures below and these measurements, hopefully, will make sense - The die spring "can" is made of 2.25 inch diameter tubing. The die spring rod is 1" in diameter. The various metal plates are 0.125 thick The diagonal tubing above the plate in the center top of the gear is 0.75 in diamter. The streamlne tubing between these two tubes is approximately 1.5 inches in depth. The gear legs - the front tubes are 1.25 in diameter, and the rear tubes are 1.125 in diameter. The bolt at the top of gear legs is, I believe an AN4, and the bolt down by the axle is an AN6 I hope that all this is useful. Oh, and the aircraft attitude is about 12. -------- Semper Fi, Terry Hand Athens, GA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=469315#469315 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/die_spring_gear_1_119.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/die_spring_gear_2_337.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/die_spring_gear_3_228.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Charles N. Campbell" <charlescampbell1924(at)gmail.com>
Date: May 15, 2017
Subject: Re: BPA Newsletter
Yes. I received mine last week. Chuck On Sun, May 14, 2017 at 7:55 AM, womenfly2 wrote: > > Anyone receive a newsletter? > > WF2 > > -------- > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=469290#469290 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: What would help you ...
From: "womenfly2" <Love2Fly.KAP(at)gmail.com>
Date: May 19, 2017
As you started building your Pietenpol; 1. If you could have purchased any pre-made parts what would they have been? 2. What kit or kits of parts for the Pietenpol would you have purchased? 3. What parts or kits would you like to see made available? Just curious, KAP -------- Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=469433#469433 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Scott Knowlton <flyingscott_k(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: What would help you ...
Date: May 19, 2017
I'll begin by saying that I look back with fond memories to every fitting and assembly that I built. I remember ten years ago before beginning my build I saw a control stick assembly and complete tailwheel all beautifully fabricated for sale in Brodhead for $250 US each. It didn't tickle my economic homebuilder's fancy so I left them on the shelf. When I built mine, the materials were relatively cheap but wow it took a lot of time, trial and error, extra fitting etc. At those prices my labour was probably worth half of a 711 clerk! I think if I could go back in time I'd buy those two assemblies. The balance of the metal brackets are very airplane dependant (save for the aileron Pulley brackets on the spars and maybe the walking beam...). My two cents. Scott Knowlton Burlington ON > On May 19, 2017, at 8:18 AM, womenfly2 wrote: > > > As you started building your Pietenpol; > > 1. If you could have purchased any pre-made parts what would they have been? > > 2. What kit or kits of parts for the Pietenpol would you have purchased? > > 3. What parts or kits would you like to see made available? > > Just curious, > KAP > > -------- > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=469433#469433 > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: The Kapler/Zuniga hinge on a steel tube fuselage
From: "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com>
Date: May 19, 2017
Maybe you builders and flyers waaay smarter than me can answer this simple question - I have the steel tube fuselage, but I built wooden tail feathers. Obviously, attaching the upper hinges to the vertical stab is pretty straightforward. I am at a bit of a loss as to how to attach the Kapler/Zuniga hinge (Yes, Oscar, that is what I am calling them moving forward) to the steel tube fuselage. That is to say, the lower-most hinge. See the photos for a further explanation of what I am looking for - -------- Semper Fi, Terry Hand Athens, GA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=469436#469436 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/screen_shot_2017_05_19_at_94121_am_512.png http://forums.matronics.com//files/screen_shot_2017_05_19_at_94201_am_861.png ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "JERRY" <jerry(at)SKYCLASSIC.NET>
Subject: The Kapler/Zuniga hinge on a steel tube fuselage
Date: May 19, 2017
You could just weld on a little tab the fits into the other Kapler hinge. That's what I would do. Jerry Sky Classic -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of jarheadpilot82 Sent: Friday, May 19, 2017 10:08 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: The Kapler/Zuniga hinge on a steel tube fuselage --> Maybe you builders and flyers waaay smarter than me can answer this simple question - I have the steel tube fuselage, but I built wooden tail feathers. Obviously, attaching the upper hinges to the vertical stab is pretty straightforward. I am at a bit of a loss as to how to attach the Kapler/Zuniga hinge (Yes, Oscar, that is what I am calling them moving forward) to the steel tube fuselage. That is to say, the lower-most hinge. See the photos for a further explanation of what I am looking for - -------- Semper Fi, Terry Hand Athens, GA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=469436#469436 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/screen_shot_2017_05_19_at_94121_am_512.pn g http://forums.matronics.com//files/screen_shot_2017_05_19_at_94201_am_861.pn g --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. http://www.avg.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: The Kapler/Zuniga hinge on a steel tube fuselage
From: "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com>
Date: May 19, 2017
Jerry, I should have been more clear. Attached is a drawing that might make more clear the question. How do I attach the hinge to the tab. If I drill through the tail post, won't I be weakening it? Do I beef up the tail post. Maybe my drawing with the skills of a 7 year old might help explain. Thanks for your input. -------- Semper Fi, Terry Hand Athens, GA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=469439#469439 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_8923_106.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: The Kapler/Zuniga hinge on a steel tube fuselage
From: "womenfly2" <Love2Fly.KAP(at)gmail.com>
Date: May 19, 2017
Why go through all that. As was said, just weld on a tab. Radius the back to fit the tail post ... simple. KAP -------- Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=469440#469440 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: The Kapler/Zuniga hinge on a steel tube fuselage
From: "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com>
Date: May 19, 2017
Keri Ann, I guess my question is really how to attach the hinge to the welded tab. Look at my drawing below (with my awesome drawing skills). Do I extend the tab with its own radiused tabs away from the post, weld the radiused tabs to the tail post with just enough room to slip some lock nuts between the tail post and the tab? Not trying to make this complicated. I just am trying to think through this. Thanks for everyone's input. -------- Semper Fi, Terry Hand Athens, GA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=469441#469441 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_8928_195.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: The Kapler/Zuniga hinge on a steel tube fuselage
From: "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com>
Date: May 19, 2017
Keri Ann, Duh!?!? I should have looked at the bottom of your post. That makes PERFECT SENSE! I will do it exactly like that, just not use the one hinge-half, weld on one tab like the one you have pictured, and call it a day. This is why I fly airplanes and others, like you, are engineers and such. -------- Semper Fi, Terry Hand Athens, GA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=469442#469442 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "JERRY" <jerry(at)SKYCLASSIC.NET>
Subject: Re: The Kapler/Zuniga hinge on a steel tube fuselage
Date: May 19, 2017
Yes I would make a tab the very same size as the hinge tab. And use it as the hinge. Then weld it to the post and it becomes the hinge. I like it when a plan comes together. Jerry -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of jarheadpilot82 Sent: Friday, May 19, 2017 11:51 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: The Kapler/Zuniga hinge on a steel tube fuselage --> Keri Ann, Duh!?!? I should have looked at the bottom of your post. That makes PERFECT SENSE! I will do it exactly like that, just not use the one hinge-half, weld on one tab like the one you have pictured, and call it a day. This is why I fly airplanes and others, like you, are engineers and such. -------- Semper Fi, Terry Hand Athens, GA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=469442#469442 --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. http://www.avg.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: The Kapler/Zuniga hinge on a steel tube fuselage
From: "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com>
Date: May 19, 2017
Thanks to both of you. -------- Semper Fi, Terry Hand Athens, GA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=469445#469445 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: What would help you ...
From: "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com>
Date: May 19, 2017
Keri Ann, As has been said, a great number of fittings are aircraft specific due to such things as the variety of spar thicknesses. I can think of two things that would be relatively consistent between builders - 1. The walking beam 2. The tail brace fittings 3. The aileron cable pulley brackets that are internal to each wing I would be interested in those parts. Not that I couldn't make them, but it would be one less thing to fabricate. Thanks for asking. -------- Semper Fi, Terry Hand Athens, GA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=469446#469446 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Charles N. Campbell" <charlescampbell1924(at)gmail.com>
Date: May 20, 2017
Subject: Re: The Kapler/Zuniga hinge on a steel tube fuselage
Could you braze the aluminum hinge to the steel tail post? On Fri, May 19, 2017 at 11:08 AM, jarheadpilot82 wrote: > jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com> > > Maybe you builders and flyers waaay smarter than me can answer this simple > question - > > I have the steel tube fuselage, but I built wooden tail feathers. > Obviously, attaching the upper hinges to the vertical stab is pretty > straightforward. I am at a bit of a loss as to how to attach the > Kapler/Zuniga hinge (Yes, Oscar, that is what I am calling them moving > forward) to the steel tube fuselage. That is to say, the lower-most hinge. > See the photos for a further explanation of what I am looking for - > > -------- > Semper Fi, > > Terry Hand > Athens, GA > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=469436#469436 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/screen_shot_2017_05_19_ > at_94121_am_512.png > http://forums.matronics.com//files/screen_shot_2017_05_19_ > at_94201_am_861.png > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Charles N. Campbell" <charlescampbell1924(at)gmail.com>
Date: May 20, 2017
Subject: Re: The Kapler/Zuniga hinge on a steel tube fuselage
Terry, adding the tab (say .090 thick steel) to the tail post would make the hinge stick out .090 and would not line up with the two upper hinges. I still think brazing would be the best answer. Chuck On Fri, May 19, 2017 at 12:18 PM, jarheadpilot82 wrote: > jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com> > > Jerry, > > I should have been more clear. Attached is a drawing that might make more > clear the question. How do I attach the hinge to the tab. If I drill > through the tail post, won't I be weakening it? Do I beef up the tail post. > Maybe my drawing with the skills of a 7 year old might help explain. > Thanks for your input. > > -------- > Semper Fi, > > Terry Hand > Athens, GA > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=469439#469439 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_8923_106.jpg > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Charles N. Campbell" <charlescampbell1924(at)gmail.com>
Date: May 20, 2017
Subject: Re: The Kapler/Zuniga hinge on a steel tube fuselage
Terry, what ever you do, don't just think of the lower hinge. Make sure the three hinges line up. C On Fri, May 19, 2017 at 12:18 PM, jarheadpilot82 wrote: > jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com> > > Jerry, > > I should have been more clear. Attached is a drawing that might make more > clear the question. How do I attach the hinge to the tab. If I drill > through the tail post, won't I be weakening it? Do I beef up the tail post. > Maybe my drawing with the skills of a 7 year old might help explain. > Thanks for your input. > > -------- > Semper Fi, > > Terry Hand > Athens, GA > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=469439#469439 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_8923_106.jpg > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: The Kapler/Zuniga hinge on a steel tube fuselage
From: "tkreiner" <tkreiner(at)gmail.com>
Date: May 20, 2017
Terry, I agree with everyone else, you need to weld A tab to your stab. That said I'm not near a computer and I can't send you a good drawing file but if you will shoot me the diameter of the tubing, I'll model it up in the solid Works and send you both an isometric and a PDF of what the 1930s style tab would look like. Tom -------- Tom Kreiner Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=469460#469460 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: The Kapler/Zuniga hinge on a steel tube fuselage
From: "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com>
Date: May 20, 2017
Tom, I am not quite there yet, but I will contact you in the near future. Thanks for the offer. -------- Semper Fi, Terry Hand Athens, GA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=469461#469461 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "JERRY" <jerry(at)SKYCLASSIC.NET>
Subject: Re: The Kapler/Zuniga hinge on a steel tube fuselage
Date: May 20, 2017
I have attached a drawing of what I was talking about. Makes it all easy. Jerry Sky Classic From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-lis t-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charles N. Campbell Sent: Saturday, May 20, 2017 6:03 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: The Kapler/Zuniga hinge on a steel tube fu selage Terry, adding the tab (say .090 thick steel) to the tail post would make th e hinge stick out .090 and would not line up with the two upper hinges. I still think brazing would be the best answer. Chuck On Fri, May 19, 2017 at 12:18 PM, jarheadpilot82 > wrote: ail.com > Jerry, I should have been more clear. Attached is a drawing that might make more c lear the question. How do I attach the hinge to the tab. If I drill through the tail post, won't I be weakening it? Do I beef up the tail post. Maybe my drawing with the skills of a 7 year old might help explain. Thanks for your input. -------- Semper Fi, Terry Hand Athens, GA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=469439#469439 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_8923_106.jpg br> enpol-List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.c om/Navigator?Pietenpol-List FORUMS - eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com WIKI - errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com b Site - -Matt Dralle, List Admin. rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. http://www.avg.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: The Kapler/Zuniga hinge on a steel tube fuselage
From: "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Date: May 20, 2017
Terry; I knew you were building a steel tube fuselage but I sent out the full set anyway so you'd have an extra casting to practice on Keri-Ann and the others nailed it. A tab it is! I think if it were me, I would build the vertical stab and rudder and install the top two aluminum hinge pairs plus the rudder half of the lower one, then temporarily install them and drop a piece of 3/16" rod down through all the hinges to determine where your weld tab needs to be. But you've already figured that out, I'm sure. -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power, 72x36 Culver prop Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=469472#469472 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: The Kapler/Zuniga hinge on a steel tube fuselage
From: "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com>
Date: May 20, 2017
Oscar, That is pretty much how I envisioned doing that part of the build. So thanks for validating my plan of attack. And I can't wait to prep the hinges. They are going to look great! Thanks for keeping the Kapler/Zuniga hinges available. -------- Semper Fi, Terry Hand Athens, GA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=469473#469473 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Clif Dawson" <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: The Kapler/Zuniga hinge on a steel tube fuselage
Date: May 21, 2017
Listen to Oscar!!! This is the right way to take care of this issue. Clif "By three methods we may learn wisdom: First, by reflection, which is noblest; second, by imitation, which is easiest; and third, by experience, which is the bitterest." (Confucius) > Keri-Ann and the others nailed it. A tab it is! I think if it were me, I > would build the vertical stab and rudder and install the top two aluminum > hinge pairs plus the rudder half of the lower one, then temporarily > install them and drop a piece of 3/16" rod down through all the hinges to > determine where your weld tab needs to be. But you've already figured > that out, I'm sure. > > -------- > Oscar Zuniga ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: morning flight airspeed
From: "aviken" <aviken(at)hughes.net>
Date: May 21, 2017
this morning I took a short flight to test my water temp with a new thermostat in place . Temps were topped out at 195 degrees and after checking my speed both into the wind and down wind my phone gps app showed a calculated ground speed of 73 mph. Is this about normal for the ford powered Piets? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=469483#469483 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: morning flight airspeed
From: "aviken" <aviken(at)hughes.net>
Date: May 21, 2017
https://youtu.be/PZ1mzGqx1G0 Here is a ural for a video of the morning flight Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=469484#469484 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 21, 2017
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: morning flight airspeed
Hi Kenny, Good news about the water temps. And I think you are the Piet leader for airspeed among the Jeep/Model- A crowd! 73 MPH is fast! Dan Helsper Loensloe Airfield Puryear, TN -----Original Message----- From: aviken <aviken(at)hughes.net> Sent: Sun, May 21, 2017 10:25 am Subject: Pietenpol-List: morning flight airspeed this morning I took a short flight to test my water temp with a new thermostat in place . Temps were topped out at 195 degrees and after checking my speed both into the wind and down wind my phone gps app showed a calculated ground speed of 73 mph. Is this about normal for the ford powered Piets? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=469483#469483 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: tail hinges
From: "Vincent Dunn" <vincentkdunn(at)yahoo.com>
Date: May 22, 2017
I'm ready to order tail hinge hardware from ACS and I need a little help. Clevis pins, AN393-?? What length? Washers, AN960-10Light, steel or alum? Cotter pins, MS24665- ?? Length? Nut plates, K1000 lockers, two ears Thanks for the help. -------- Vincent Dunn Salem Oregon vincentkdunn(at)yahoo.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=469522#469522 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: tail hinges
From: "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Date: May 22, 2017
Vincent: the answer to all of those questions is, "it depends". Because the ears or tabs on the hinges can be left rough or cleaned up very square, the distance between the outside faces of the two-tab half of the hinge will vary with the builder. Yes, the clevis pins should be AN393, but the length will have to be determined experimentally. I personally like to use thin steel washers back there (anything to save weight on the tail), and I like to use fairly long cotter pins because my eyes aren't that great and my fingers aren't that slender and the longer ones are easier to thread through the clevis pin holes. Besides, I cut them short with side cutters so there is just enough length to wrap each clipped leg halfway around the clevis pin (I dislike leaving the legs long). All of this takes a heck of a lot more time than you think it would, and because the @#$%& things keep wanting to spin on you when you try to bent the cotter pin legs back around the clevis pin, it's much easier to do if you have a patient and understanding helper available when you get ready to cotter the little suckers. For use during building, I just slide some .049 safety wire through them and give it a twist because I know I'll be putting them on and taking them off a couple of times during fitting and rigging. Cotters go in at final installation. -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power, 72x36 Culver prop Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=469523#469523 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: The Kapler/Zuniga hinge on a steel tube fuselage
From: "tkreiner" <tkreiner(at)gmail.com>
Date: May 23, 2017
Terry, Since I haven't heard back regarding tube diameters, I thought I'd just post this pic so you may design your own hinges. As a Design Engineer, I'd use one of these at the top and one at the bottom with the curved portion of the tab pointing opposite each other. (The center hinge may be oriented in either direction...) That way, the rudder will be confined vertically (axially along rearmost vertical stabilizer tube). >From what I can tell, this part is typically an assembly using a circular section welded to the hinge pin tab. In order to make that as an assembly, the rounded piece is to carry any axial load. This prevents welds from shear loads. Hope this helps. -------- Tom Kreiner Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=469533#469533 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/hinge_design_900.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Prop cover plate
From: "Rick Schreiber" <lmforge(at)earthlink.net>
Date: May 23, 2017
I'm thinking about having a number of prop cover plates made with an acid etched design on the surface. This is just a thin cover plate meant to be used over a standard steel or aluminum prop plate. The diameter will be around 6" and made for a SAE-1 bolt pattern as used on a corvair prop hub. I need to run at least 25 of these to make it worthwhile. The cost is about $10 each. If there is enough interest I will have these made. Just send me a pm at lmforge at earthlink.net if interested. The attached picture is a paper print of the graphic taped to the front of my Piet/corvair. The plate will be marked for the prop bolt holes but will not be drilled or cut out. I want to get these done before Brodhead so I'll need to hear from those interested soon. Rick Schreiber NX478RS Valparaiso, IN Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=469534#469534 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/prop_plate_127.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: tail hinges
From: "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Date: May 23, 2017
Vincent; I also forgot to mention that if it were me, I would use single-ear nutplates for the hinge mounting screws. Less weight. If you epoxy them in place, they should be secure without having to mount with two screws. Melt some candle wax into the threaded part and the epoxy won't stick to the threads and can be cleared out after it's set. However, if you feel better with two-ear nutplates, carry on ;o) -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power, 72x36 Culver prop Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=469535#469535 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: The Kapler/Zuniga hinge on a steel tube fuselage
From: "aerocarjake" <flight.jake(at)gmail.com>
Date: May 23, 2017
Hello good Piet-ple, Been out of touch for a while yet still moving forward nicely on my project. Terry, here is a photo of my tailpost hinge prior to welding. I can't find a good photo of that specific area after welding...?!?!? The three rudder hinges line up real well yet you have to be very careful to always mount the horizontal stabilizer with the same number of washers/shims so the three rudder hinges are spaced properly. I've been working on my center section for the past many months. There are some details that are taking more time than normal but "anything worth doing is worth over-doing...!!!!" Have fun with the adventure....! -------- Jake Schultz - curator, Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=469539#469539 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/tailpost_hinge_606.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "JERRY" <jerry(at)SKYCLASSIC.NET>
Subject: Re: The Kapler/Zuniga hinge on a steel tube fuselage
Date: May 23, 2017
Yes that is exactly what I was saying. That is the perfect way to do it. Jerry Sky Classic -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of aerocarjake Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2017 2:30 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: The Kapler/Zuniga hinge on a steel tube fuselage --> Hello good Piet-ple, Been out of touch for a while yet still moving forward nicely on my project. Terry, here is a photo of my tailpost hinge prior to welding. I can't find a good photo of that specific area after welding...?!?!? The three rudder hinges line up real well yet you have to be very careful to always mount the horizontal stabilizer with the same number of washers/shims so the three rudder hinges are spaced properly. I've been working on my center section for the past many months. There are some details that are taking more time than normal but "anything worth doing is worth over-doing...!!!!" Have fun with the adventure....! -------- Jake Schultz - curator, Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=469539#469539 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/tailpost_hinge_606.jpg --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. http://www.avg.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: The Kapler/Zuniga hinge on a steel tube fuselage
From: "wheelharp" <wheelharp(at)gmail.com>
Date: May 23, 2017
Somewhat on the same subject...since the location of this hinge half is done pre-covering, does the thickness of covering on fuselage and horizontal and vertical stab add enough thickness to make alignment off? In other words, does any allowance need to be made for covering, or is it insignificant enough it doesn't matter. -------- Jon Jones Ironton, MO Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=469541#469541 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: The Kapler/Zuniga hinge on a steel tube fuselage
From: "aerocarjake" <flight.jake(at)gmail.com>
Date: May 23, 2017
good point... it may not be critical but my horizontal stabilizer is mounted on washers and I could adjust them if needed. I suspect that will be one of the many things that crop up when one re-assembles the plane after covering/paint.... I guess I'll just skip the covering altogether - ha! -------- Jake Schultz - curator, Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=469552#469552 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com>
Date: May 23, 2017
Subject: OT father of jeepenpol
Luke, I am your father! 1928 overland whippet four. 134 CI. 31 HP. Later developed into the GoDevil Jeep engine of WW two. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com>
Date: May 23, 2017
Subject: OT father of Jeep
1928 whippet head ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Boatright, Jeffrey" <jboatri(at)emory.edu>
Subject: Re: OT father of Jeep
Date: May 24, 2017
UHJldHR5IHN1cmUgdGhhdCB0aGlzIGlzIGEgd2hpcHBldCBoZWFk4oCmDQoNCi0tDQpKZWZmcmV5 IEguIEJvYXRyaWdodCwgUGhELCBGQVJWTw0KUHJvZmVzc29yIG9mIE9waHRoYWxtb2xvZ3kNCkVt b3J5IFVuaXZlcnNpdHkgU2Nob29sIG9mIE1lZGljaW5lDQpDb3JlIERpcmVjdG9yICYgUmVzZWFy Y2ggQmlvbG9naXN0DQpBdGxhbnRhIFZBTUMgQ2VudGVyIGZvciBWaXN1YWwgJiBOZXVyb2NvZ25p dGl2ZSBSZWhhYmlsaXRhdGlvbg0KDQoNCkZyb206IDxvd25lci1waWV0ZW5wb2wtbGlzdC1zZXJ2 ZXJAbWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbT4gb24gYmVoYWxmIG9mIFN0ZXZlbiBEb3J0Y2ggPHN0ZXZlbi5kLmRv cnRjaEBnbWFpbC5jb20+DQpSZXBseS1UbzogInBpZXRlbnBvbC1saXN0QG1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20i IDxwaWV0ZW5wb2wtbGlzdEBtYXRyb25pY3MuY29tPg0KRGF0ZTogVHVlc2RheSwgTWF5IDIzLCAy MDE3IGF0IDg6MzYgUE0NClRvOiAicGlldGVucG9sLWxpc3RAbWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbSIgPHBpZXRl bnBvbC1saXN0QG1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20+DQpTdWJqZWN0OiBQaWV0ZW5wb2wtTGlzdDogT1QgZmF0 aGVyIG9mIEplZXANCg0KMTkyOCB3aGlwcGV0IGhlYWQNCg0KX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX18NCg0KVGhpcyBlLW1haWwgbWVzc2FnZSAoaW5jbHVkaW5nIGFueSBhdHRhY2ht ZW50cykgaXMgZm9yIHRoZSBzb2xlIHVzZSBvZg0KdGhlIGludGVuZGVkIHJlY2lwaWVudChzKSBh bmQgbWF5IGNvbnRhaW4gY29uZmlkZW50aWFsIGFuZCBwcml2aWxlZ2VkDQppbmZvcm1hdGlvbi4g SWYgdGhlIHJlYWRlciBvZiB0aGlzIG1lc3NhZ2UgaXMgbm90IHRoZSBpbnRlbmRlZA0KcmVjaXBp ZW50LCB5b3UgYXJlIGhlcmVieSBub3RpZmllZCB0aGF0IGFueSBkaXNzZW1pbmF0aW9uLCBkaXN0 cmlidXRpb24NCm9yIGNvcHlpbmcgb2YgdGhpcyBtZXNzYWdlIChpbmNsdWRpbmcgYW55IGF0dGFj aG1lbnRzKSBpcyBzdHJpY3RseQ0KcHJvaGliaXRlZC4NCg0KSWYgeW91IGhhdmUgcmVjZWl2ZWQg dGhpcyBtZXNzYWdlIGluIGVycm9yLCBwbGVhc2UgY29udGFjdA0KdGhlIHNlbmRlciBieSByZXBs eSBlLW1haWwgbWVzc2FnZSBhbmQgZGVzdHJveSBhbGwgY29waWVzIG9mIHRoZQ0Kb3JpZ2luYWwg bWVzc2FnZSAoaW5jbHVkaW5nIGF0dGFjaG1lbnRzKS4NCg= ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: The Kapler/Zuniga hinge on a steel tube fuselage
From: "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com>
Date: May 23, 2017
Jake, A picture is worth a thousand words (maybe two thousand for this air line pilot). Thanks! -------- Semper Fi, Terry Hand Athens, GA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=469565#469565 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com>
Date: May 23, 2017
Subject: Re: OT father of Jeep
Yes, it is. LoL On May 23, 2017 7:53 PM, "Boatright, Jeffrey" wrote: > Pretty sure that this is a whippet head > > > -- > > Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD, FARVO > > Professor of Ophthalmology > > Emory University School of Medicine > > Core Director & Research Biologist > > Atlanta VAMC Center for Visual & Neurocognitive Rehabilitation > > > *From: *<owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com> on behalf of Steven > Dortch > *Reply-To: *"pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com" > *Date: *Tuesday, May 23, 2017 at 8:36 PM > *To: *"pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com" > *Subject: *Pietenpol-List: OT father of Jeep > > > 1928 whippet head > > ------------------------------ > > This e-mail message (including any attachments) is for the sole use of > the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged > information. If the reader of this message is not the intended > recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution > or copying of this message (including any attachments) is strictly > prohibited. > > If you have received this message in error, please contact > the sender by reply e-mail message and destroy all copies of the > original message (including attachments). > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Prop cover plate
From: "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Date: May 23, 2017
Nice design! I'm guessing the Ford builders will be especially interested in these for the period look that they impart. My A75 sports a thin aluminum reproduction of the original Continental plate, which I think I got from Wag Aero or someplace. I don't remember what it cost. It, too, is decorative and goes over the real crush plate. Obviously, those who are using tapered shaft prop hubs will be out of luck with something like this, although I guess you could also design a plate with the graphics positioned around where the nose of the hub pokes through. -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power, 72x36 Culver prop Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=469569#469569 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: The Kapler/Zuniga hinge on a steel tube fuselage
From: "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Date: May 23, 2017
Jake-! Long time no hear progress report. I was expecting to see a cloud of blue smoke from your radial engine on the horizon north of me when you fired it up. -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power, 72x36 Culver prop Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=469570#469570 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: The Kapler/Zuniga hinge on a steel tube fuselage
From: "aerocarjake" <flight.jake(at)gmail.com>
Date: May 23, 2017
I should probably cover the plane before I fly in.... -------- Jake Schultz - curator, Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=469571#469571 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/imag0723_789.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: The new aluminum head for the Jeepenpol
From: "aviken" <aviken(at)hughes.net>
Date: May 24, 2017
For those who don't know , I have installed a newly made aluminum head on the Jeep engine . It is a 7.5 to 1 compression ratio head , with better design combustion chamber, Like a Hemi . I added that part myself. I have noticed a increase in overall rpm , Not world changing but better. My friend in Australia that built it for me has asked me to add that this head is not back in production at this time , but was only done as a favor to the Jeepenpol, because it was interesting to him. Hopefully his son and grandson will take up the project and sometime in the future continue to make available the beautiful head. I have been testing and flying up till now to improve the performance of the jeepenpol. Now I intend to do some indurance flying and see what altitude I can reasonably be able reach and to asure myself that it would be possible to reach Brodhead Wisconsin , which is my goal. I have to burn some hours to reach the 40 hour mark at this time I have 5 flight hours . Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=469583#469583 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/untitled_18_205.png ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: The new aluminum head for the Jeepenpol
From: "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Date: May 24, 2017
Some people create masterpieces with oil, brushes, and canvas. Others create works of art and functional genius in aluminum. That's a beautiful Jeepenpol head. -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power, 72x36 Culver prop Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=469589#469589 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com>
Date: May 24, 2017
Subject: Re: The new aluminum head for the Jeepenpol
Kenny, did you see the posts about my whippet engine? On May 24, 2017 12:59 PM, "aviken" wrote: For those who don't know , I have installed a newly made aluminum head on the Jeep engine . It is a 7.5 to 1 compression ratio head , with better design combustion chamber, Like a Hemi . I added that part myself. I have noticed a increase in overall rpm , Not world changing but better. My friend in Australia that built it for me has asked me to add that this head is not back in production at this time , but was only done as a favor to the Jeepenpol, because it was interesting to him. Hopefully his son and grandson will take up the project and sometime in the future continue to make available the beautiful head. I have been testing and flying up till now to improve the performance of the jeepenpol. Now I intend to do some indurance flying and see what altitude I can reasonably be able reach and to asure myself that it would be possible to reach Brodhead Wisconsin , which is my goal. I have to burn some hours to reach the 40 hour mark at this time I have 5 flight hours . Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=469583#469583 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/untitled_18_205.png ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: New to me Piet Project
From: "Brent Wilson" <Wyowilsons(at)gmail.com>
Date: May 24, 2017
I traveled to Madison Wisconsin from Wyoming last weekend and picked up a started project from Dave Jeardeau. I made it home and am preparing to start on the completion of the project. I have a good start and am pretty excited to get in the middle of it. Any words of encouragement will be appreciated! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=469591#469591 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/image_206.jpeg http://forums.matronics.com//files/image_295.jpeg ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: New to me Piet Project
From: "aerocarjake" <flight.jake(at)gmail.com>
Date: May 25, 2017
Looks awesome. Nothing like taking up the baton from another ...picking up where another has started. Always remember to keep the spirit of the first builder alive...!! Enjoy the project every step of the way! -------- Jake Schultz - curator, Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=469596#469596 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: New to me Piet Project
From: "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Date: May 25, 2017
I think a goodly percentage of flying Air Campers were not started from scratch by their current owners. My airplane was started by one builder, completed by another, and now I'm living their dreams of simple, affordable, open-cockpit flight. -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power, 72x36 Culver prop Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=469602#469602 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Prop cover plate
From: "Rick Schreiber" <lmforge(at)earthlink.net>
Date: May 25, 2017
Thanks for the compliment Oscar. So far the response has been pretty good. I may wind up doing more than 25 so I will have enough to take to Brodhead. Rick Schreiber NX478RS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=469610#469610 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Mark Sutton <suttonmark56(at)gmail.com>
Date: May 26, 2017
Subject: Re: Prop cover plate
On Thu, May 25, 2017 at 7:49 PM Rick Schreiber wrote: > lmforge(at)earthlink.net> > > Thanks for the compliment Oscar. So far the response has been pretty good. > I may wind up doing more than 25 so I will have enough to take to Brodhead. > > Rick Schreiber > NX478RS > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=469610#469610 > > > I would love to purchase one from too if you have enough Mark Sutton 678/283-4250 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: TC Pietenpol
From: "oldbird" <semihoksay(at)gmail.com>
Date: May 26, 2017
It has been a while since I last posted my progress. I am busy with the finishing touches on the fuselage. Since the photo, most of the metal fittings are in place. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=469615#469615 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_5648_small_139.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: TC Pietenpol
From: "aerocarjake" <flight.jake(at)gmail.com>
Date: May 26, 2017
Nice.... I like the variable cabaine struts! -------- Jake Schultz - curator, Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=469618#469618 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com>
Date: May 26, 2017
Subject: Re: TC Pietenpol
Who is making the Vroom Vroom noise? Looking good. On Fri, May 26, 2017 at 3:35 AM, oldbird wrote: > > It has been a while since I last posted my progress. I am busy with the > finishing touches on the fuselage. Since the photo, most of the metal > fittings are in place. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=469615#469615 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_5648_small_139.jpg > > -- Blue Skies, Steve D ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: The new aluminum head for the Jeepenpol
From: "aviken" <aviken(at)hughes.net>
Date: May 28, 2017
Hi Seven. Yes I did see that picture of the Whippet. Im not sure , but I believe the head pattern is almost the same as the willys. The fellow that built my head is in a club in Austrailia where they race (or did ) these old 4 bangers. He said he got started in the USA where he met some guys out in California racing the Model A four, and He always thought the 134 L was a much better engine. The whippet is the fore runner of the later engine and is very similar. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=469667#469667 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: TC Pietenpol
From: "oldbird" <semihoksay(at)gmail.com>
Date: May 28, 2017
This is how she looks as of today, with non-variable cabane struts. Front fuselage metal fittings complete. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=469671#469671 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_5861_custom_122.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Comcast <4rcsimmons(at)comcast.net>
Date: May 30, 2017
Subject: Wood size
I purchased some 1x6 rough cut to build a Piet. I cleaned up my first piece tonight. When I finished cleaning up the surface completely and cleaned an edge for table saw guide, my thickness came up to 7/8. I still need to clean up the other side. I'm building the vertical stab first for a trial part and learning piece. There are a few pieces that are 1x1 in size. Obviously, the best I can get is 1 x 7/8 or so. I'm sure I'm not the only one that has hit this. Is This acceptable or do I need to order some wood that is 2x 6 in the rough. Would laminating 2 pieces to get the 1x1 acceptable? Please share your thoughts. - Rich ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Glen Schweizer <glenschweizer(at)yahoo.com>
Date: May 30, 2017
Subject: Re: Wood size
Hi Rich. Yes laminating is ok but you have to do it right. I wouldn't try to bend once laminated though. Use it for cap strips for ribs is even better. Check your wood supplier for S4S 5/4 then you can plane it to 1". Please don't even consider using it in place of 1X1 stock. Stay with original materials call out unless you can justify materials substitution through empirical data or better yet check FAA publication 43-13 > On May 30, 2017, at 8:08 PM, Comcast <4rcsimmons(at)comcast.net> wrote: > > > I purchased some 1x6 rough cut to build a Piet. I cleaned up my first piece tonight. When I finished cleaning up the surface completely and cleaned an edge for table saw guide, my thickness came up to 7/8. I still need to clean up the other side. > > I'm building the vertical stab first for a trial part and learning piece. > > There are a few pieces that are 1x1 in size. Obviously, the best I can get is 1 x 7/8 or so. > > I'm sure I'm not the only one that has hit this. > > Is This acceptable or do I need to order some wood that is 2x 6 in the rough. > > Would laminating 2 pieces to get the 1x1 acceptable? > > Please share your thoughts. > > - Rich > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Wood size
From: "Pocono John" <tinmotion(at)yahoo.com>
Date: May 31, 2017
When you have a part not quite right or up to your standards, would it bother you during flight (just knowing it's there)? If yes, start over. Even if an error is acceptable (by FAA standards), it might still irritate you. Probably the best thing I can say is, when in doubt, chuck t and start over. The more important the part is to structural integrity, the more precise I'll be. A 1/8" error on wood size is probably OK for the legs holding a seat up, but I wouldn't like it on critical flight components. By the way, here's some info on aircraft wood: http://naca.central.cranfield.ac.uk/reports/1931/naca-report-354.pdf -------- John Cronin Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=469752#469752 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: TC Pietenpol
From: "aerocarjake" <flight.jake(at)gmail.com>
Date: May 31, 2017
Very nice...!!!! -------- Jake Schultz - curator, Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=469760#469760 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 01, 2017
From: Rich Simmons <4RCSIMMONS(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Purchase wood
I purchased some wood purchased by someone else to build a Piet. The choice of wood by him was Fir. I live in the middle Tennessee area. I need to order der some 5/4 boards to get my 1x1 pieces. Where can I order it from somewhat near my area of the country. Thoughts? Thanks, Rich ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com>
Date: Jun 01, 2017
Subject: Heim Vs Aurora
I am going to order Rod End Bearings for my die spring replacement to the bungee landing gear. What is the difference between heim and Aurora bearings? there is a big difference in price. -- Blue Skies, Steve D ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Purchase wood
From: "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Jun 01, 2017
Rich, I have purchased Douglas Fir at Atlanta Hardwood. They have a Distribution Warehouse in Clarksville TN. I spoke to Kathy Roberts there and she said that they might be able to ship some in from the Atlanta store. Call her at 877-989-9663. http://www.hardwoodweb.com/distribution/html/HWWDISTennessee.html -------- Semper Fi, Terry Hand Athens, GA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=469788#469788 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Semih Oksay <semihoksay(at)gmail.com>
Date: Jun 06, 2017
Subject: Re: Visit to US
Dear Ben finally we =8Bsettled our trip and we (my wife and I) will be in Orla ndo 7th June in the evening. We will stay till 22 June. My mobile is: +90 554 542 26 51. I am also on Whatsapp. If possible, I would like to pay you a visit, at your convenience. Regards Semih Oksay On Fri, May 12, 2017 at 9:07 PM, Ben Charvet wrote: > > I have one in Titusville, which is 30 miles east of Orlando > > Sent from my iPhone > > > On May 12, 2017, at 1:23 PM, oldbird wrote: > > > > > > Hi All > > > > I will be visiting US in June. I will stay in Orlando, Fl. Can you help > me find an Air Camper in the vicinity? I will have car and bike provision s. > > > > Regards > > > > Semih Oksay > > Istanbul, Turkey > > > > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=469244#469244 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > =========== =========== =========== =========== =========== > > -- Semih Oksay ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Wood size
From: "aviken" <aviken(at)hughes.net>
Date: Jun 06, 2017
I read a post by Forrest Lovely who said that people wonder how BP built his craft so light, and that he knew he sometimes ripped his one inch longeron pieces from a two by four and with the missing Kerf the boards wound up being 7/8 by 1 . Now I don't know just how much that change would multiply into measurement problems following the plans and all, But I do not think it would be un-doable. I also believe that a 7/8x1 would be plenty strong , and if I build another piet I will probably do that just to save a little weight. Just my piddling 2 cents worth. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=469859#469859 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Wood size
From: "womenfly2" <Love2Fly.KAP(at)gmail.com>
Date: Jun 07, 2017
I would only use aircraft graded wood an leave the longerons a full 1" x 1". In BP time the plane were very light because they were low cost builds dollar wise and material wise, no fancy electronics or other non-essential items. Today's Piets are way over gross weight, including pilot and a passenger, added to that all the fancy full IFR panels builders embellish their plane with. If you deviate from the plans remember you become a test pilot. The Piet was design to be a light flying airplane, simple in its nature and design. If you keep it like that you will have one great flying airplane. Just do as the plans say .... and for God's sake do not use a 2x4 ;) WF2 -------- Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=469862#469862 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Visit to US
From: Ben Charvet <bencharvet(at)gmail.com>
Date: Jun 07, 2017
Welcome to the US! I am available most evenings after 4PM or so, or all day on Saturdays. Give me a call or email when your plans firm up Ben 321-961-5117 On 6/6/2017 10:53 AM, Semih Oksay wrote: > Dear Ben > > finally we settled our trip and we (my wife and I) will be in Orlando > 7th June in the evening. We will stay till 22 June. My mobile is: +90 > 554 542 26 51. I am also on Whatsapp. If possible, I would like to pay > you a visit, at your convenience. > > Regards > > Semih Oksay > > On Fri, May 12, 2017 at 9:07 PM, Ben Charvet > wrote: > > > > > I have one in Titusville, which is 30 miles east of Orlando > > Sent from my iPhone > > > On May 12, 2017, at 1:23 PM, oldbird > wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi All > > > > I will be visiting US in June. I will stay in Orlando, Fl. Can > you help me find an Air Camper in the vicinity? I will have car > and bike provisions. > > > > Regards > > > > Semih Oksay > > Istanbul, Turkey > > > > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=469244#469244 > <http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=469244#469244> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > =================================== > br> enpol-List" target="_blank" > rel="noreferrer">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > =================================== > FORUMS - > _blank" rel="noreferrer">http://forums.matronics.com > =================================== > WIKI - > lank" rel="noreferrer">http://wiki.matronics.com > =================================== > b Site - > -Matt Dralle, List Admin. > target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > =================================== > > > -- > Semih Oksay -- Ben Charvet, PharmD Staff Pharmacist Parrish Medical center ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 07, 2017
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Wood size
I actually measured "The Last Original", and I can confirm the 7/8" dimension. I also noted at the time that Bernard used 1/16" tail brace cables. So those are the wires I used in NX929DH. Dan Helsper Loensloe Airfield Puryear, TN -----Original Message----- From: aviken <aviken(at)hughes.net> Sent: Wed, Jun 7, 2017 2:51 pm Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wood size I read a post by Forrest Lovely who said that people wonder how BP built his craft so light, and that he knew he sometimes ripped his one inch longeron pieces from a two by four and with the missing Kerf the boards wound up being 7/8 by 1 . Now I don't know just how much that change would multiply into measurement problems following the plans and all, But I do not think it would be un-doable. I also believe that a 7/8x1 would be plenty strong , and if I build another piet I will probably do that just to save a little weight. Just my piddling 2 cents worth. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=469859#469859 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Wood size
From: "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Jun 08, 2017
So I'm always the guy who wants to analyze things because I'm an engineer. Not taking a position one way or the other on the longeron size issue, just analyzing a little bit. Let's just say that the basis of design for the longerons is that they are of spruce, that they are 1"x1" in cross-section, and that we're interested in the strength of that member in bending. Spruce modulus of rupture is 9400 psi so we assume that's the maximum bending stress that the longeron will sustain. We can calculate the maximum bending moment that the longeron can take, M, to be equal to the modulus of rupture times the width of the longeron times the square of the height of the longeron divided by 6, with that result divided by 12 to get it in lb-ft of bending moment instead of lb-in. That calculates out to be a little over 130 lb-ft of bending moment. If we make the parts to still be 1" high but only 7/8" wide, that drops to about 114 lb-ft of moment... a 12% reduction in what they can sustain in bending. Some builders have gone to Douglas fir, which has a modulus of about 10,900 psi. If fir is used for those 7/8" x 1" longerons, then they will resist a bending moment of about 132 lb-ft and you've gotten back what you lost by shaving down the 1" to 7/8". It comes with a price though... Doug fir weighs more than spruce and you have to determine for yourself if the tradeoff is worth it. As others have posted, unless you're willing to calculate stresses here and there and everywhere in your airplane structure, it's best to stick to the plans and only venture away if you want to do the homework. In the case of the longerons, they are not in pure bending in any one spot at any one load condition, so even if you check just bending in one axis, there may be other loadings that are worse than the one you evaluate. -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power, 72x36 Culver prop Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=469913#469913 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Cutting process and accuracy
From: "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Jun 12, 2017
I'm in the bandsaw camp. Scribe a line, cut and plane. Joint remaining surface, lather rinse repeat. I freehand accurately to a line, no jigs and such, not necessary. Tools Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=470007#470007 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: OT opinion from the peanut gallery
From: "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Jun 12, 2017
I'd say if you want to instruct in a champ, just make sure the gear isn't slap worn out. Many champs, and Chiefs, suffer from collapsed springs and the belief that the oil in them isn't important. These are difficult machines to manage in decent winds on concrete. The tandam thing is miserable if you don't have a decent intercom. Not that difficult in a enclosed cockpit. It's a miserable adverse yaw machine, which DOES force you to learn to fly coordinated and keep the ailerons in the correct spot if the plane is MOVING, at all! If a 65hp machine, you'll never be able to teach someone to fly at pattern altitude... Some students just won't be feasible. 85 much better, beefed up 85 probably the way to go. Considering the other two machines, I'd prefer the champ by a long shot. If you want regular work, the other two. While you will be a rare bird, there aren't many folks really wanting to take on a taildragger. I LOVE instructing in my 120. Don't even flinch at a direct 15 to 18 kt direct crosswind. Tools Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=470008#470008 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Barry Davis" <bed(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Cutting process and accuracy
Date: Jun 13, 2017
Tools I wish I had a bandsaw that is worth a crap!. I had an old cheap saw that you have to hold the wood at a 20 degree angle to cut down a line. I took it to the dump and pushed it off the back of the truck. I finally gave up and bought a RIGID brand for about $500. Now I have to hold the wood at about a 30 degree angle to follow a line. Totally worthless! I am considering buying Carter Guides, but I might just be wasting my time and money installing these on a Rigid saw. Any ideas or suggestions? Barry -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of tools Sent: Monday, June 12, 2017 2:36 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cutting process and accuracy I'm in the bandsaw camp. Scribe a line, cut and plane. Joint remaining surface, lather rinse repeat. I freehand accurately to a line, no jigs and such, not necessary. Tools Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=470007#470007 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Cutting process and accuracy
From: "wheelharp" <wheelharp(at)gmail.com>
Date: Jun 13, 2017
I use a wood slicer blade from highland woodworking http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/woodslicer12resawbandsawblades705to137.aspx and found some tutorials on youtube for setting up for drift angle. I guess the resaw blade is actually for resawing wide boards into very thin stock or making veneers, but I like the fact it is only .022 wide, so less waste... -------- Jon Jones Ironton, MO Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=470059#470059 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jack Fastnaught <fastnaught(at)windstream.net>
Date: Jun 13, 2017
Subject: Re: Cutting process and accuracy
Barry, I think your problem is the blade and a tune up. I have had good success with either Carter or Timber wolf blades. Next check the tires on the big wheels. Then check tension on the blade. Make sure the blade is tracking correctly. Should be good after that. After all the saw is just a mechanism to spin the blade. Good luck. Jack Sent from my iPad > On Jun 13, 2017, at 10:46 AM, Barry Davis wrote: > > > Tools > I wish I had a bandsaw that is worth a crap!. I had an old cheap saw that > you have to hold the wood at a 20 degree angle to cut down a line. I took it > to the dump and pushed it off the back of the truck. I finally gave up and > bought a RIGID brand for about $500. Now I have to hold the wood at about a > 30 degree angle to follow a line. Totally worthless! I am considering buying > Carter Guides, but I might just be wasting my time and money installing > these on a Rigid saw. Any ideas or suggestions? > Barry > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of tools > Sent: Monday, June 12, 2017 2:36 PM > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cutting process and accuracy > > > I'm in the bandsaw camp. Scribe a line, cut and plane. Joint remaining > surface, lather rinse repeat. > > I freehand accurately to a line, no jigs and such, not necessary. > > Tools > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=470007#470007 > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Steve Knoll <spknoll(at)gmail.com>
Date: Jun 13, 2017
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 06/12/17
Please take me off this list. It's filling up my mailbox. On Tue, Jun 13, 2017 at 2:03 AM, Pietenpol-List Digest Server < pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com> wrote: > * > > ================================================= > Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive > ================================================= > > Today's complete Pietenpol-List Digest can also be found in either of the > two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted > in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes > and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version > of the Pietenpol-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor > such as Notepad or with a web browser. > > HTML Version: > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style > 82701&View=html&Chapter 17-06-12&Archive=Pietenpol > > Text Version: > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style > 82701&View=txt&Chapter 17-06-12&Archive=Pietenpol > > > =============================================== > EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive > =============================================== > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > Pietenpol-List Digest Archive > --- > Total Messages Posted Mon 06/12/17: 2 > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > > Today's Message Index: > ---------------------- > > 1. 11:38 AM - Re: Cutting process and accuracy (tools) > 2. 11:54 AM - Re: OT opinion from the peanut gallery (tools) > > > ________________________________ Message 1 > _____________________________________ > > > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cutting process and accuracy > From: "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com> > > > I'm in the bandsaw camp. Scribe a line, cut and plane. Joint remaining > surface, > lather rinse repeat. > > I freehand accurately to a line, no jigs and such, not necessary. > > Tools > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=470007#470007 > > > ________________________________ Message 2 > _____________________________________ > > > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: OT opinion from the peanut gallery > From: "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com> > > > I'd say if you want to instruct in a champ, just make sure the gear isn't > slap > worn out. Many champs, and Chiefs, suffer from collapsed springs and the > belief > that the oil in them isn't important. These are difficult machines to > manage > in decent winds on concrete. > > The tandam thing is miserable if you don't have a decent intercom. Not > that difficult > in a enclosed cockpit. > > It's a miserable adverse yaw machine, which DOES force you to learn to fly > coordinated > and keep the ailerons in the correct spot if the plane is MOVING, at all! > > > If a 65hp machine, you'll never be able to teach someone to fly at pattern > altitude... > Some students just won't be feasible. 85 much better, beefed up 85 > probably > the way to go. > > Considering the other two machines, I'd prefer the champ by a long shot. > If you > want regular work, the other two. While you will be a rare bird, there > aren't > many folks really wanting to take on a taildragger. > > I LOVE instructing in my 120. Don't even flinch at a direct 15 to 18 kt > direct > crosswind. > > Tools > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=470008#470008 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 06/12/17
From: "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Jun 13, 2017
How to unsubscribe - http://www.matronics.com/subscribe/ -------- Semper Fi, Terry Hand Athens, GA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=470074#470074 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Cutting process and accuracy
From: "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Jun 13, 2017
Jack; if you could make a YouTube video on how to make a bandsaw work the way they're supposed to, it would go viral. I've fiddled and fussed with the guides and wheels and knobs and adjustments on my (admittedly, inexpensive) bandsaw and I'm like Barry... nothing I do seems to make it want to cut straight and vertical unless I feed the stock into the blade so slowly that I might as well just use hand tools to do it. Even a jigsaw can cut vertical cuts, but they are hell on thin stock and once the jigsaw starts the stock chattering, I just force the blade through it with plenty of extra outside my cut line to get done and hope I can sand out the imperfections ;o) Can you understand why I don't work at NASA building space hardware, but build experimental low and slow aircraft instead? ;o) -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power, 72x36 Culver prop Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=470082#470082 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Clif Dawson" <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Cutting process and accuracy
Date: Jun 13, 2017
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQqq3rAZ4PI Clif workin' on Johnsons. ----- Original Message ----- From: "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2017 10:00 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cutting process and accuracy > > Jack; if you could make a YouTube video on how to make a bandsaw work the > way they're supposed to, it would go viral. I've fiddled and fussed with > the guides and wheels and knobs and adjustments on my (admittedly, > inexpensive) bandsaw and I'm like Barry... nothing I do seems to make it > want to cut straight and vertical unless I feed the stock into the blade > so slowly that I might as well just use hand tools to do it. Even a > jigsaw can cut vertical cuts, but they are hell on thin stock and once the > jigsaw starts the stock chattering, I just force the blade through it with > plenty of extra outside my cut line to get done and hope I can sand out > the imperfections ;o) Can you understand why I don't work at NASA > building space hardware, but build experimental low and slow aircraft > instead? ;o) > > -------- > Oscar Zuniga > Medford, OR > Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" > A75 power, 72x36 Culver prop > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=470082#470082 > > > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. > http://www.avg.com > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Clif Dawson" <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Cutting process and accuracy
Date: Jun 13, 2017
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQqq3rAZ4PI Clif workin' on Johnsons. ----- Original Message ----- From: "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2017 10:00 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cutting process and accuracy > > Jack; if you could make a YouTube video on how to make a bandsaw work the > way they're supposed to, it would go viral. I've fiddled and fussed with > the guides and wheels and knobs and adjustments on my (admittedly, > inexpensive) bandsaw and I'm like Barry... nothing I do seems to make it > want to cut straight and vertical unless I feed the stock into the blade > so slowly that I might as well just use hand tools to do it. Even a > jigsaw can cut vertical cuts, but they are hell on thin stock and once the > jigsaw starts the stock chattering, I just force the blade through it with > plenty of extra outside my cut line to get done and hope I can sand out > the imperfections ;o) Can you understand why I don't work at NASA > building space hardware, but build experimental low and slow aircraft > instead? ;o) > > -------- > Oscar Zuniga > Medford, OR > Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" > A75 power, 72x36 Culver prop > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=470082#470082 > > > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. > http://www.avg.com > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: John Woods <jawesma(at)gmail.com>
Date: Jun 14, 2017
Subject: Re: Cutting process and accuracy
I had a band saw, then sold it and got a Ryobi BT3000 table saw. Problems gone. Cut all my 1/4 x 1/2 rib stock, longerons and ply with it...everything, no extra sanding or planing. I found it more versatile than the band saw. JohnW On 14 June 2017 at 13:00, taildrags wrote: > > Jack; if you could make a YouTube video on how to make a bandsaw work the > way they're supposed to, it would go viral. I've fiddled and fussed with > the guides and wheels and knobs and adjustments on my (admittedly, > inexpensive) bandsaw and I'm like Barry... nothing I do seems to make it > want to cut straight and vertical unless I feed the stock into the blade so > slowly that I might as well just use hand tools to do it. Even a jigsaw > can cut vertical cuts, but they are hell on thin stock and once the jigsaw > starts the stock chattering, I just force the blade through it with plenty > of extra outside my cut line to get done and hope I can sand out the > imperfections ;o) Can you understand why I don't work at NASA building > space hardware, but build experimental low and slow aircraft instead? ;o) > > -------- > Oscar Zuniga > Medford, OR > Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" > A75 power, 72x36 Culver prop > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=470082#470082 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Continental Con Rod Bolts
From: "tkreiner" <tkreiner(at)gmail.com>
Date: Jun 14, 2017
As in the last several years, we are bringing Continental Con Rod Bolts to Brodhead again this year. The bolts are TCM P/N 530213; they are NOS in ten packs, but we'll split them into 8, 12, etc., sets for 4 or 6 cylinder engines. These bolts fit EVERY Small Continental, from A series, to C series, O-200 & 300, and IO-240 & 360 engines. Since the bolts have been superceded by TCM to a new P/N 655959, which sell for around $39 each, they are no longer available from either ACS or ASS. Our stock is probably the last available anywhere, and we only have 12 or so sets left to sell. So, if you're engine has run several thousand hours, and the bolts have been "exercised" over 200 million times, maybe they should be included in that next overhaul... After all, the number of stress cycles the bolts see will approach what we call the Fatique Limit of the material. We currently have them on eBay for $22.50 each, but will sell to the Piet group (ONLY Piet group, please) for only $20.00 each. Email me to reserve sets at tkreiner(at)gmail.com. We plan to bring these to Brodhead, but we can ship if you prefer. -------- Tom Kreiner Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=470116#470116 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Cutting process and accuracy
From: "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Jun 14, 2017
I have a table saw, which is great for rips and straight cuts. The bandsaw would be for curved cuts. -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power, 72x36 Culver prop Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=470139#470139 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Cutting process and accuracy
From: "womenfly2" <Love2Fly.KAP(at)gmail.com>
Date: Jun 15, 2017
Watch this one: WF2 -------- Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=470149#470149 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com>
Date: Jun 15, 2017
Subject: Spring in a can landing gear!
Well, I have made the Spring in a can! It was about as described, but it took a better welder than I will ever be. I took it to a shop that does anything welding, from big oilfield rigs to old lawn mowers and golf carts. the boss said he wanted to do this job and told me that my design may fail, but his welds won't! He built it exactly as I described and made great improvements. We compressed the spring in the shop by putting the 1 inch tube in a vise, and three big old boys would pull it down while the welder tightened the vise to hold it. I put end rod bearings (Heim) Bearings on both ends. I like the idea of adjustability. I bought them at a local hot rod shop. The 5/16th bearing on the bottom looks and feels hell bent for strong. The 1/4 inch on the upper end may be OK but I don't know the load rating. So for $20 I am going to get some end rod bearings that have a high load rating. FK or Aurora brand most likely. Once we were finished, one set would flex just a touch if you pushed the rod back and forth, but the other felt rock solid. I think there was just a bead of slag inside pinning the spring. So today I put a chain on each end and chained them to the tow hitches between my explorer and old suburban. My grandson had it roll forward to flex the setup. It got about 1.5 inch of flex on both of them. Now both feel like they are free. You cannot compress the spring by hand and I was glad to see them move between the two trucks. I was afraid I had made a solid rod! I wiped it off with denatured alcohol and sanded it. Then I primed it with Rustoleum Self Etching Primer. Tomorrow I will rattlecan paint it with Rustoleum automotive gloss enamel. I have been teaching ground school at a local flight school (for pay no less!) and work has been getting in the way of getting out to the hangar to work on the Piet. -- Blue Skies, Steve D ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Spring in a can landing gear!
From: "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Jun 16, 2017
Steve, Awesome! Pictures, please! -------- Semper Fi, Terry Hand Athens, GA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=470173#470173 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Spring in a can landing gear!
From: Kip Gardner <kipgohio1957(at)gmail.com>
Date: Jun 16, 2017
I have not posted here for a long, long time, but its time to do so, just to let people know that I have somewhat reluctantly decided to sell my project. I find that bringing a truly sustainable, regenerative farm into existence is all the project I can handle at age 60, so its time to adjust. Its a very complete project, just about everything you need to complete it is there, although I have to retrieve some engine parts very soon, and then organize everything for anyone who wants a look. About the only thing missing necessary for completion is covering materials. Fuselage is largely complete, tail feathers too. Includes a very nice Corvair engine, already disassembled and partially reworked (crank turned down .001 by Wm. Wynn), much more I could go into but will answer specific questions if you contact me. Located in NE Ohio, about 40 miles south of Cleveland. Asking $5500 for the whole project, not interested in parting it out. Thanks! Kip Gardner, North Canton, OH > On Jun 16, 2017, at 9:46 AM, jarheadpilot82 wrote: > > > Steve, > > Awesome! Pictures, please! > > -------- > Semper Fi, > > Terry Hand > Athens, GA > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=470173#470173 > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com>
Date: Jun 16, 2017
Subject: Re: Spring in a can landing gear!
On Jun 16, 2017 9:10 AM, wrote: On Jun 16, 2017 8:49 AM, "jarheadpilot82" wrote: jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com> Steve, Awesome! Pictures, please! -------- Semper Fi, Terry Hand Athens, GA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=470173#470173 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com>
Date: Jun 16, 2017
Subject: Re: Spring in a can landing gear!
On Jun 16, 2017 8:49 AM, "jarheadpilot82" wrote: > jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com> > > Steve, > > Awesome! Pictures, please! > > -------- > Semper Fi, > > Terry Hand > Athens, GA > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=470173#470173 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com>
Date: Jun 16, 2017
Subject: Spring in a can
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com>
Date: Jun 16, 2017
Subject: Spring in a can
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kip Gardner <kipgohio1957(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Project for sale
Date: Jun 18, 2017
Greetings! I have not posted here for a long, long time, but its time to do so, just to let people know that I have somewhat reluctantly decided to sell my project. I find that bringing a truly sustainable, regenerative farm into existence is all the project I can handle at age 60, so its time to adjust. Its a very complete project, just about everything you need to complete it is there, although I have to retrieve some engine parts very soon, and then organize everything for anyone who wants a look. About the only thing missing necessary for completion is covering materials. Fuselage is largely complete, tail feathers too. Includes a very nice Corvair engine, already disassembled and partially reworked (crank turned down .001 by Wm. Wynn), much more I could go into but will answer specific questions if you contact me. Located in NE Ohio, about 40 miles south of Cleveland. Asking $5500 for the whole project, not interested in parting it out. Thanks! Kip Gardner, North Canton, OH ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 19, 2017
From: Joe Czaplicki <fishin3(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 06/18/17
Any pictures to show workmanship? On Monday, June 19, 2017 2:13 AM, Pietenpol-List Digest Server wrote: * ======================== =C2- Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive ======================== Today's complete Pietenpol-List Digest can also be found in either of the two Web Links listed below.=C2- The .html file includes the Digest format ted in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes and Message Navigation.=C2- The .txt file includes the plain ASCII versio n of the Pietenpol-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor such as Notepad or with a web browser. HTML Version: =C2- =C2- http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701& View=html&Chapter 17-06-18&Archive=Pietenpol Text Version: =C2- =C2- http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701& View=txt&Chapter 17-06-18&Archive=Pietenpol ======================== ======================= =C2- EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive ======================== ======================= =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- ---------------------------------------- ------------------ =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2 - =C2- =C2- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2 - =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- --- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- Total Messages Posted Sun 06/18/17: 1 =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- ---------------------------------------- ------------------ Today's Message Index: ---------------------- =C2- =C2- 1. 10:37 PM - Project for sale=C2- (Kip Gardner) ________________________________=C2- Message 1=C2- ____________________ _________________ From: Kip Gardner <kipgohio1957(at)gmail.com> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Project for sale Greetings! I have not posted here for a long, long time, but its time to do so, just t o let people know that I have somewhat reluctantly decided to sell my project.=C2 - I find that bringing a truly sustainable, regenerative farm into existence is all the project I can handle at age 60, so its time to adjust.=C2- Its a very complete project, just about everything you need to complete it is there, although I have to retrieve some engine parts very soon, and then organize everything for anyone who wants a look. About the only thing missing necess ary for completion is covering materials.=C2- Fuselage is largely complete, t ail feathers too.=C2- Includes a very nice Corvair engine, already disassembl ed and partially reworked (crank turned down .001 by Wm. Wynn), much more I could go into but will answer specific questions if you contact me.=C2- Located in NE Ohio, about 40 miles south of Cleveland.=C2- Asking $5500 f or the whole project, not interested in parting it out. Thanks! Kip Gardner, North Canton, OH S - WIKI - - =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- -Matt Dralle, List Admin. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 19, 2017
From: BobbyPaulk(at)comcast.net
Subject: Project for sale
Pietenpol Project for sale: Fuselage on gear with engine mounted. Corvair engine has 25 hours run in on stand. Aircraft exhaust and intake manifolds installed with carburetor. Prop Hub included. All ribs complete, tail feathers all wood completed. Spars still in sealed shipping crate. Most instruments included. First $2,500 takes it all. Interested Parties ONLY E-mail for Photos Please no tire kickers. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Glen Schweizer <glenschweizer(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Jun 19, 2017
Subject: Re: Project for sale
Where are you located I'm in Oregon > On Jun 19, 2017, at 1:48 PM, BobbyPaulk(at)comcast.net wrote: > > Pietenpol Project for sale: > > Fuselage on gear with engine mounted. > Corvair engine has 25 hours run in on stand. > Aircraft exhaust and intake manifolds installed with carburetor. > Prop Hub included. > All ribs complete, tail feathers all wood completed. Spars still in sealed shipping crate. > Most instruments included. > > First $2,500 takes it all. > > Interested Parties ONLY E-mail for Photos > Please no tire kickers. ========================== ========================== ========================== ========================== ========================== ========================== ========================== ========================== =============== ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 20, 2017
From: BobbyPaulk(at)comcast.net
Subject: Re: Location
Located in Jacksonville, Florida. > Pietenpol Project for sale: > > Fuselage on gear with engine mounted. > Corvair engine has 25 hours run in on stand. > Aircraft exhaust and intake manifolds installed with carburetor. > Prop Hub included. > All ribs complete, tail feathers all wood completed. Spars still in sealed shipping crate. > Most instruments included. > > First $2,500 takes it all. > > Interested Parties ONLY E-mail for Photos > Please no tire kickers. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Purchase wood
From: "Mark Roberts" <mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com>
Date: Jun 22, 2017
Rich: I moved to Nashville almost 3 years ago, and have been looking for Piet folks here. Do you live in Murfreesboro? If so, I'd like to connect! Any others in Middle TN? I moved my project, and am Hopi g to get into a house this year so I can continue building the fuse. Let me know! Mark Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=470386#470386 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Who's in the Nashville TN area?
From: "Mark Roberts" <mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com>
Date: Jun 22, 2017
Hello All: After relocating from California almost 3 years ago, I have begun to get active with my Piet project again. I live in a condo, and believe it or not, just after we arrived I had the fuse in the lib g room for a couple of weeks, until my wife almost left me, and I had to move it to a storage room Earlier this week I finished cutting the inside joist sticks for 34 ribs (Riblett 613.5 airfoil) and I broke out the West Systems epoxy, so at least by the time I get to have a workshop again, I'll have some ribs to assemble. Got the jig out and perhaps by this time next week I'll have some new ribs built. Who's in Middle TN? Anyone close by these days? Howdy to all my West Coast Pieters! Miss y'all at the Summer Gathering Mark Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=470387#470387 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: vic groah <vicgroah(at)gmail.com>
Date: Jun 22, 2017
Subject: Re: Who's in the Nashville TN area?
Mark, great to hear from you , gone but not forgotten, The west meet was a bit small but nice. Four Peits and several others came in modern planes or drove in. Pretty much the usual old crowd but some new people as well. We had a great time catching up as usual. Hope your world is better in the south east. Loved to have you here but you have to go where you can make a living. Hope to see you again some day Vic Groah 414MV On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 3:19 PM, Mark Roberts wrote : > mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com> > > Hello All: > > After relocating from California almost 3 years ago, I have begun to get > active with my Piet project again. I live in a condo, and believe it or > not, just after we arrived I had the fuse in the lib g room for a couple of > weeks, until my wife almost left me, and I had to move it to a storage > room=F0=9F=98=9D > > Earlier this week I finished cutting the inside joist sticks for 34 ribs > (Riblett 613.5 airfoil) and I broke out the West Systems epoxy, so at lea st > by the time I get to have a workshop again, I'll have some ribs to > assemble. Got the jig out and perhaps by this time next week I'll have > some new ribs built. > > Who's in Middle TN? Anyone close by these days? > > Howdy to all my West Coast Pieters! Miss y'all at the Summer Gathering =F0=9F=98=9E > > Mark > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=470387#470387 > > =========== =========== =========== =========== =========== > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Who's in the Nashville TN area?
From: "Mark Roberts" <mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com>
Date: Jun 22, 2017
Hey Vic! Thanks for the update on the gathering! It is surprising to me how fond I am of the people like yourself and Mike (as well as the whole group) after only a few times to gather. As has been mentioned several times on this board, the people that become Pieters are a unique band of folks. As you know, yours was the first Piet I saw, and ever sat in - that day I came by in the shop. The bird was beautiful, and the workmanship exquisite... but what would you expect from a couple of Wood Experts! :o) Tell Mike I said Hi and I hope to see you all again, perhaps on a venture out there around the time of the gathering. (I actually thought about you guys during the traditional weekend of the event, even though I was not active on the message board. I just knew when it was happening!) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=470392#470392 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Comcast <4rcsimmons(at)comcast.net>
Date: Jun 23, 2017
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 06/22/17
I do live in Murfreesboro. There is one other gentleman local and I hear he has done a great job. He is up in years and will probably never fly. Shelbyville has their breakfast this weekend. I'll be there. (SYI) I need to review 601xl. I took my first flight after annual Wednesday night. How far along are you with your project? 615-631-8928 - Rich > On Jun 23, 2017, at 2:03 AM, Pietenpol-List Digest Server wrote: > > * > > ================================================= > Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive > ================================================= > > Today's complete Pietenpol-List Digest can also be found in either of the > two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted > in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes > and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version > of the Pietenpol-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor > such as Notepad or with a web browser. > > HTML Version: > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 17-06-22&Archive=Pietenpol > > Text Version: > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 17-06-22&Archive=Pietenpol > > > =============================================== > EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive > =============================================== > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > Pietenpol-List Digest Archive > --- > Total Messages Posted Thu 06/22/17: 4 > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > > Today's Message Index: > ---------------------- > > 1. 03:13 PM - Re: Purchase wood (Mark Roberts) > 2. 03:22 PM - Who's in the Nashville TN area? (Mark Roberts) > 3. 04:08 PM - Re: Who's in the Nashville TN area? (vic groah) > 4. 05:15 PM - Re: Who's in the Nashville TN area? (Mark Roberts) > > > > ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ > > > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Purchase wood > From: "Mark Roberts" <mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com> > > > Rich: > > I moved to Nashville almost 3 years ago, and have been looking for Piet folks here. > > Do you live in Murfreesboro? If so, I'd like to connect! > > Any others in Middle TN? I moved my project, and am Hopi g to get into a house > this year so I can continue building the fuse. > > Let me know! > > Mark > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=470386#470386 > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ > > > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Who's in the Nashville TN area? > From: "Mark Roberts" <mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com> > > > Hello All: > > After relocating from California almost 3 years ago, I have begun to get active > with my Piet project again. I live in a condo, and believe it or not, just after > we arrived I had the fuse in the lib g room for a couple of weeks, until > my wife almost left me, and I had to move it to a storage room > > Earlier this week I finished cutting the inside joist sticks for 34 ribs (Riblett > 613.5 airfoil) and I broke out the West Systems epoxy, so at least by the time > I get to have a workshop again, I'll have some ribs to assemble. Got the > jig out and perhaps by this time next week I'll have some new ribs built. > > Who's in Middle TN? Anyone close by these days? > > Howdy to all my West Coast Pieters! Miss y'all at the Summer Gathering > > Mark > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=470387#470387 > > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ > > > From: vic groah <vicgroah(at)gmail.com> > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Who's in the Nashville TN area? > > Mark, great to hear from you , gone but not forgotten, The west meet was a > bit small but nice. Four Peits and several others came in modern planes or > drove in. Pretty much the usual old crowd but some new people as well. We > had a great time catching up as usual. Hope your world is better in the > south east. Loved to have you here but you have to go where you can make a > living. Hope to see you again some day Vic Groah 414MV > > On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 3:19 PM, Mark Roberts wrote > : > >> mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com> >> >> Hello All: >> >> After relocating from California almost 3 years ago, I have begun to get >> active with my Piet project again. I live in a condo, and believe it or >> not, just after we arrived I had the fuse in the lib g room for a couple > of >> weeks, until my wife almost left me, and I had to move it to a storage >> room=F0=9F=98=9D >> >> Earlier this week I finished cutting the inside joist sticks for 34 ribs >> (Riblett 613.5 airfoil) and I broke out the West Systems epoxy, so at lea > st >> by the time I get to have a workshop again, I'll have some ribs to >> assemble. Got the jig out and perhaps by this time next week I'll have >> some new ribs built. >> >> Who's in Middle TN? Anyone close by these days? >> >> Howdy to all my West Coast Pieters! Miss y'all at the Summer Gathering > =F0=9F=98=9E >> >> Mark >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=470387#470387 >> >> > ========== > ========== > ========== > ========== > ========== >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ > > > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Who's in the Nashville TN area? > From: "Mark Roberts" <mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com> > > > Hey Vic! > > Thanks for the update on the gathering! It is surprising to me how fond I am of > the people like yourself and Mike (as well as the whole group) after only a few > times to gather. As has been mentioned several times on this board, the people > that become Pieters are a unique band of folks. As you know, yours was the > first Piet I saw, and ever sat in - that day I came by in the shop. The bird > was beautiful, and the workmanship exquisite... but what would you expect from > a couple of Wood Experts! :o) > > Tell Mike I said Hi and I hope to see you all again, perhaps on a venture out there > around the time of the gathering. (I actually thought about you guys during > the traditional weekend of the event, even though I was not active on the message > board. I just knew when it was happening!) > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=470392#470392 > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Making control horns
From: "Pocono John" <tinmotion(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Jun 29, 2017
When welding the edges of two pieces, how do you make it so the part is 1/4" thick? The diagrams, and builder photos, show control horns as having space between the two pieces. Thank you, JC -------- John Cronin Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=470594#470594 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "JERRY" <jerry(at)SKYCLASSIC.NET>
Subject: Making control horns
Date: Jun 29, 2017
You have to kinda form the edges to get the thickness. You can tap them over a pc of metal or some hard wood. Try to make an air foil. It is not an exact science. Right now I am working on some dies that will stamp these out so you get a perfect horn. My first attempt was a very nice part. I will post some pictures soon. Only problem was the air foil was in the wrong direction. Nice if your flying backwards. Live and learn. If it works out I will have them for sale. Jerry Sky Classic Aircraft -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pocono John Sent: Thursday, June 29, 2017 1:12 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Making control horns --> When welding the edges of two pieces, how do you make it so the part is 1/4" thick? The diagrams, and builder photos, show control horns as having space between the two pieces. Thank you, JC -------- John Cronin Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=470594#470594 --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. http://www.avg.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Making control horns
From: "Pocono John" <tinmotion(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Jun 29, 2017
Thanks. I must have deleted my question while you were responding. I found two web pages that helped: http://www.westcoastpiet.com/control_horns.htm other site linked there. John -------- John Cronin Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=470600#470600 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Philips" <jack(at)bedfordlandings.com>
Subject: Making control horns
Date: Jun 29, 2017
You've first got to bend the lending edges to a 1/4" radius, then edge weld the two pieces. It is fairly simple and the easiest welding you will ever do. Jack Phillips -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pocono John Sent: Thursday, June 29, 2017 2:12 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Making control horns --> When welding the edges of two pieces, how do you make it so the part is 1/4" thick? The diagrams, and builder photos, show control horns as having space between the two pieces. Thank you, JC -------- John Cronin Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=470594#470594 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Making control horns
From: "Pocono John" <tinmotion(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Jun 29, 2017
Thank you Jack. -------- John Cronin Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=470604#470604 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 30, 2017
From: Chris Tracy <catdesigns(at)att.net>
Subject: Making control horns
My method=C2- http://www.westcoastpiet.com/control_horns.htm Chris Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android On Thu, Jun 29, 2017 at 1:55 PM, JERRY wrote: --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "JERRY" You have to kinda form the edges to get the thickness. You can tap them ove r a pc of metal or some hard wood. Try to make an air foil. It is not an exac t science. Right now I am working on some dies that will stamp these out so you get a perfect horn. My first attempt was a very nice part. I will post some pictures soon. Only problem was the air foil was in the wrong direction. Nice if your flying backwards. Live and learn.=C2- If it works out I will have them for sale. Jerry Sky Classic Aircraft -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pocono John Sent: Thursday, June 29, 2017 1:12 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Making control horns --> When welding the edges of two pieces, how do you make it so the part is 1/4 " thick? The diagrams, and builder photos, show control horns as having space between the two pieces. Thank you, JC -------- John Cronin Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=470594#470594 --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. http://www.avg.com S - WIKI - - =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- -Matt Dralle, List Admin. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Cutting process and accuracy
From: "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Jul 02, 2017
Barry, I gotta just fly down and spend an afternoon with y'all. Guides are the least important part, any of them work fine. Blade selection and tension are the main players. I resaw regularly with a 3/16 skip tooth blade on 14" saws up to six inches. Wide blades only work well on specialty or very heavy duty saws. The wood slicer works so well because of the thinness of the blade. Tension is measured in lbs/in sq. the smaller the cross section of the blade, the smaller the denominator and therefore the higher the tension. When is your next meeting? Tools Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=470656#470656 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Cutting process and accuracy
From: "aerocarjake" <flight.jake(at)gmail.com>
Date: Jul 05, 2017
Thanks WF2, very helpful bandsaw setup video..... -------- Jake Schultz - curator, Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=470700#470700 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Dick Navratil's Rotec powered Piet
From: "charles mcfarland" <charles.w.mcfarland(at)gmail.com>
Date: Jul 10, 2017
I am looking for anyone who might have been around when Dick Navratil covered the wings of his Pietenpol 25RN. I bought the airplane and it is in need of some fabric touch up and it is not clear in his logbooks what kind of paint or even process he used. Dick wanted the fabric to appear to be leather and also kind of translucent. He went to great extremes to order fabric that was not stamped with the ink from the supplier (poly-fiber, ceconite, Stewart, etc.). The paint had some type of UV filter mixed in with it, so there was no "silver" coat underneath the paint. There is also no evidence of the pink color usually associated with poly-fiber or green associated with Stewart systems. It appears that it was just a clear glue, possibly a white primer and then stained somehow. So far I have not been able to find a paint supplier that can come close to matching it and even spots that Dick had touched up were not good matches and just brushed on over the sprayed area. Any help from anyone who might have been around when the airplane was finished would be greatly appreciated! Charlie McFarland Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=470869#470869 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 10, 2017
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Dick Navratil's Rotec powered Piet
I distinctly remember, from the Sport Aviation article I believe, that he contacted the folks at Poly Fiber to create that paint. Maybe you can find that article again to make sure my recollection is correct. Dan Helsper Loensloe Airfield Puryear, TN -----Original Message----- From: charles mcfarland <charles.w.mcfarland(at)gmail.com> Sent: Mon, Jul 10, 2017 12:44 pm Subject: Pietenpol-List: Dick Navratil's Rotec powered Piet I am looking for anyone who might have been around when Dick Navratil covered the wings of his Pietenpol 25RN. I bought the airplane and it is in need of some fabric touch up and it is not clear in his logbooks what kind of paint or even process he used. Dick wanted the fabric to appear to be leather and also kind of translucent. He went to great extremes to order fabric that was not stamped with the ink from the supplier (poly-fiber, ceconite, Stewart, etc.). The paint had some type of UV filter mixed in with it, so there was no "silver" coat underneath the paint. There is also no evidence of the pink color usually associated with poly-fiber or green associated with Stewart systems. It appears that it was just a clear glue, possibly a white primer and then stained somehow. So far I have not been able to find a paint supplier that can come close to matching it and even spots that Dick had touched up were not good matches and just brushed on over the sprayed area. Any help from anyone who might have been around when the airplane was finished would be greatly appreciated! Charlie McFarland Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=470869#470869 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Dick Navratil's Rotec powered Piet
From: "charles mcfarland" <charles.w.mcfarland(at)gmail.com>
Date: Jul 10, 2017
Thanks Dan, I contacted Poly-fiber a few months ago, but they had no record of any transactions with Dick and nobody knew anything about the paint that was used. Apparently, they had a fire or something that destroyed all records shortly after Dick had worked with them. All part of the fun of a homebuilt, right? Thanks again, Charlie Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=470874#470874 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "(null) raykrause" <raykrause(at)frontiernet.net>
Subject: Re: Dick Navratil's Rotec powered Piet
Date: Jul 10, 2017
I used the Stewart's system and they have a clear cement that I used...no gr een or pink. Check to see if he used latex paint by using some denatured alc ohol . Rub a bit on in a hidden spot, if the surface rubs off, it is latex- like paint (water based). Water based paint is highly UV resistant and so me is pretty translucent. I tried some clear latex, but it was not too UV re sistant. The clear cement under it turned brown in the sunlight (UV), looked bad, but still was strong and OK according to Stewerts. I painted over the c lear with highly resistant opaque latex (yellow). I'd bet he used latex. Ray Krause SkyScout, almost ready for DAR! Sent from my iPad > On Jul 10, 2017, at 12:00 PM, charles mcfarland <charles.w.mcfarland@gmail .com> wrote: > land(at)gmail.com> > > Thanks Dan, > > I contacted Poly-fiber a few months ago, but they had no record of any tra nsactions with Dick and nobody knew anything about the paint that was used. Apparently, they had a fire or something that destroyed all records shortly after Dick had worked with them. > > All part of the fun of a homebuilt, right? > > Thanks again, > > Charlie > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=470874#470874 > > > > > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com>
Date: Jul 10, 2017
Subject: Re: Dick Navratil's Rotec powered Piet
I did a Google search for "Dick Navratil matronics pietenpol paint" and found some references Here is one tidbit written by Dick on the Rotecradial "Poly Fiber made a special batch of Poly Tone finish for me. It is a clear finish with a wood type stain added and UV filter. I did a lot of testing to try for a look of stretched leather. I'm pretty happy with the result. I have the leather for the interior, I will be starting on that. I'm going to have a saddle shop finish it for me. I want the seats to have a western saddle type of look." On Mon, Jul 10, 2017 at 2:00 PM, charles mcfarland < charles.w.mcfarland(at)gmail.com> wrote: > charles.w.mcfarland(at)gmail.com> > > Thanks Dan, > > I contacted Poly-fiber a few months ago, but they had no record of any > transactions with Dick and nobody knew anything about the paint that was > used. Apparently, they had a fire or something that destroyed all records > shortly after Dick had worked with them. > > All part of the fun of a homebuilt, right? > > Thanks again, > > Charlie > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=470874#470874 > > -- Blue Skies, Steve D ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douwe(at)douwestudios.com>
Subject: Dick's wing finish
Date: Jul 11, 2017
Dick told me that he used the clear poly fiber finish with their UV additive mixed in and some color stain. I followed his advice (to a point) when doing my own wings. They sell a UV additive that you simply mix into the clear. It imparts a slightly amber color, but not enough to get the darker tobacco color he wanted so he added (or had them add, I don't know which) some brown to suit. It's not hard to do, just mix up some batches using various amounts of pigmented coloring and you'll end up with what you're looking for. Feel free to email or call me with any questions. Douwe 805 573 3564 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 11, 2017
From: BobbyPaulk(at)comcast.net
Subject: Project for sale
Pietenpol Project for sale. Fuselage on gear with engine mounted. All wood on Tail feathers done. All ribs complete. Spars in original crate. Engine is later model Corvair with 110 HP heads, aircraft intake and Carburetor, exhaust, and prop hub. Engine has 25 hrs on test stand. Also most instruments included. Project located in Hilliard, Florida. $2,500 takes all. Contact me via e-mail for Photos. No tire kickers please! ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Ford model A engine part
From: "flyingbrick" <rgow(at)avionicsdesign.ca>
Date: Jul 11, 2017
On my Model A there is a strange bulb on the front cover plate which seems to have no purpose. It can be seen in the attached picture. Does anybody know what this is for? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=470893#470893 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/bulb_model_a_179.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Ford model A engine part
From: "tkreiner" <tkreiner(at)gmail.com>
Date: Jul 11, 2017
Are you describing the item in this attached pic? If so, it's the original timing pin for the engine. Remove it, reverse it in the hole, and rotate the engine to TDC... When at TDC, the pin will slip deeper int the cover, as it engages a hole in the cam. Be SURE to remove and tighten. -------- Tom Kreiner Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=470896#470896 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/timing_pin_140.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jack Fastnaught <fastnaught(at)windstream.net>
Date: Jul 11, 2017
Subject: Re: Ford model A engine part
That small protrusion contains the timing pin Sent from my iPhone > On Jul 11, 2017, at 11:08 AM, flyingbrick wrote: > > > On my Model A there is a strange bulb on the front cover plate which seems to have no purpose. It can be seen in the attached picture. Does anybody know what this is for? > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=470893#470893 > > > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/bulb_model_a_179.jpg > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Ford model A engine part
From: "flyingbrick" <rgow(at)avionicsdesign.ca>
Date: Jul 11, 2017
Thanks! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=470897#470897 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Robert Gow <rgow(at)avionicsdesign.ca>
Subject: Ford model A engine part
Date: Jul 11, 2017
Thank you! -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack Fastnaught Sent: July-11-17 12:03 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Ford model A engine part --> That small protrusion contains the timing pin Sent from my iPhone > On Jul 11, 2017, at 11:08 AM, flyingbrick wrote: > > --> > > On my Model A there is a strange bulb on the front cover plate which seems to have no purpose. It can be seen in the attached picture. Does anybody know what this is for? > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=470893#470893 > > > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/bulb_model_a_179.jpg > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Dick's wing finish
From: "charles mcfarland" <charles.w.mcfarland(at)gmail.com>
Date: Jul 11, 2017
Douwe, Thanks. That is what I was looking for. I will be in touch. Will you be at Brodhead this year? Charlie Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=470902#470902 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Dick Navratil's Rotec powered Piet
From: "charles mcfarland" <charles.w.mcfarland(at)gmail.com>
Date: Jul 11, 2017
Thanks to everyone who answered. That all gives me something to go on. I hope to see and meet everyone at Brodhead this hear. Charlie Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=470903#470903 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Working with sheet metal
From: "Pocono John" <tinmotion(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Jul 11, 2017
I'm using a metal cutting bandsaw with 24 TPI since the metal is thin. It seems it would be much easier with a bench shear, which local stores don't sell. Any other way to cut the sheet? Once the pieces are cut, what's the best way to shape them (round corners for example) and smooth the edges? Bench grinder or bench sander (what grit)? What worked for youand is there anything you'd do different? Thank you! John C -------- John Cronin Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=470915#470915 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Working with sheet metal
From: "tkreiner" <tkreiner(at)gmail.com>
Date: Jul 11, 2017
John, ASS has a set of A/C snips; Left Hand, Right Hand and straight. If the description isn't completely clear, the L H snip shears a circular cut in the counter clockwise direction, the R H in the clockwise. This is done freehand while wearing gloves... With a bandsaw, you'll probably need to provide some suitable backup material to prevent distortion of the sheet while cutting. (Don't wear gloves when working with a bandsaw - or any other machine tool.) Practicing on scrap, you'll be able to make nice radii on all of the pieces, as well as smooth cutouts around cylinders, etc. Working the metal around features on your plane might require an English Wheel, which, with practice, may be used to make cowling, and associated items, like brackets, baffles, etc. Cutting manila folders might save you a fortune, as cheapo materiasl will allow you to make the parts over and over and prevent the production of high cost scrap. Fit the pieces carefully, and when they fit the way they should, then make them out of metal. The alloy most commonly used in AC work is 2024 T3, although other alloys may be used. 5052 H32 can be used in non structural applications, where formability is important, as well as cost. 5052 is roughly half the tensile strength of 2024. One final note... Scotch Brite wheels & discs do an excellent job of smoothing edges, and in the process create EXTREMELY SMALL PARTICLES (~ 1 um), which may be inhaled. My 3M Rep always wore an expensive face mask, and when I asked him why, he just said "to keep from breathing that stuff." Meaning the material being removed with the wheel or disc. There is some speculation that aluminum may be a contributing factor in Alzheimer's disease. My take is that 3M might not be divulging sufficient information about these products to the end users. -------- Tom Kreiner Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=470918#470918 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Working with sheet metal
From: "Pocono John" <tinmotion(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Jul 12, 2017
Thank you TomI appreciate your time to help me out. I like the manila envelope idea. My sheet metal is 4130. John C -------- John Cronin Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=470932#470932 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Working with sheet metal
From: "tkreiner" <tkreiner(at)gmail.com>
Date: Jul 12, 2017
John, OOPS! Sheet metal conjures up images of formed aluminum in my old mind.... So, working with the bandsaw, and some hi rpm tools, i.e. die grinders, for reducing to final shape is the best course. After they're to shape, you'll need files, and sandpaper to remove ALL tool marks, cut marks, etc., from EVERY edge, as these are called notches. During flight, normal working stresses may induce crack propagation from one of these sites. Have fun with this... -------- Tom Kreiner Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=470937#470937 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Working with sheet metal
From: "bdewenter" <anonymouse(at)woh.rr.com>
Date: Jul 13, 2017
John, I've read a lot of posts that the metal cutting band saw is one of the favorite tools for cutting the 4130. I used two tools myself. The first a simple handheld hack saw for "strip" 4130 for the simple straight and L brackets etc. All my shaped parts were water jet cut. Bob -------- Bob 'Early Builder' Dewenter Dayton OH Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=470968#470968 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Dale Johnson <ddjohn1936(at)gmail.com>
Date: Jul 13, 2017
Subject: Re: Dick Navratil's Rotec powered Piet
Hi Charles Dick ordered that paint custom mixed from AC&S. That might be a hard color for them to match with out a sample. As for the Poly brush you can order it untinted. The quart p/n is 09-04110 and the Gallon p/n is 09-04210. The Poly-tak is clear. Dale On Mon, Jul 10, 2017 at 12:43 PM, charles mcfarland < charles.w.mcfarland(at)gmail.com> wrote: > charles.w.mcfarland(at)gmail.com> > > I am looking for anyone who might have been around when Dick Navratil > covered the wings of his Pietenpol 25RN. I bought the airplane and it is > in need of some fabric touch up and it is not clear in his logbooks what > kind of paint or even process he used. Dick wanted the fabric to appear to > be leather and also kind of translucent. He went to great extremes to > order fabric that was not stamped with the ink from the supplier > (poly-fiber, ceconite, Stewart, etc.). > > The paint had some type of UV filter mixed in with it, so there was no > "silver" coat underneath the paint. There is also no evidence of the pink > color usually associated with poly-fiber or green associated with Stewart > systems. It appears that it was just a clear glue, possibly a white primer > and then stained somehow. So far I have not been able to find a paint > supplier that can come close to matching it and even spots that Dick had > touched up were not good matches and just brushed on over the sprayed area. > > Any help from anyone who might have been around when the airplane was > finished would be greatly appreciated! > > Charlie McFarland > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=470869#470869 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Working with sheet metal
From: "echobravo4" <eab4(at)comcast.net>
Date: Jul 14, 2017
Hi John i cut out the blanks with a metal cutting bandsaw- get the shapes close with the grinder, then draw file the edges and finish with fine grade wet or dry sandpaper -------- Earl Brown I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I intended to be. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=470987#470987 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Working with sheet metal
From: "Pocono John" <tinmotion(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Jul 14, 2017
Thank you Tom , Bob and Earl. Got it. JC -------- John Cronin Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=470988#470988 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Dick Navratil's Rotec powered Piet
From: "charles mcfarland" <charles.w.mcfarland(at)gmail.com>
Date: Jul 14, 2017
Hi Dale, Thanks for the reply and info. I think you are talking about Aircraft Spruce when you said AC&S? I can send them a sample. I have had lots of help thanks to the forum and think there is a good possibility I can get a close match by using one of several suggested techniques along with some trial and error work on some junk pieces. I will also try to call Aircraft Spruce just to see if they might have a record of what Dick may have ordered years ago. Probably a long shot, but you never know. Looking forward to Brodhead! Charlie Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=470989#470989 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: dndboyd2(at)gmail.com
Date: Jul 15, 2017
Subject: Brodhead
I haven't seen anything about the Brodhead fly-in. Is it still on? Sent from my iPhone > On Jul 15, 2017, at 2:03 AM, Pietenpol-List Digest Server wrote: > > * > > ================================================= > Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive > ================================================= > > Today's complete Pietenpol-List Digest can also be found in either of the > two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted > in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes > and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version > of the Pietenpol-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor > such as Notepad or with a web browser. > > HTML Version: > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 17-07-14&Archive=Pietenpol > > Text Version: > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 17-07-14&Archive=Pietenpol > > > =============================================== > EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive > =============================================== > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > Pietenpol-List Digest Archive > --- > Total Messages Posted Fri 07/14/17: 3 > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > > Today's Message Index: > ---------------------- > > 1. 05:47 AM - Re: Working with sheet metal (echobravo4) > 2. 06:42 AM - Re: Working with sheet metal (Pocono John) > 3. 06:45 AM - Re: Dick Navratil's Rotec powered Piet (charles mcfarland) > > > > ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ > > > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Working with sheet metal > From: "echobravo4" <eab4(at)comcast.net> > > > Hi John > > i cut out the blanks with a metal cutting bandsaw- > get the shapes close with the grinder, then draw file the edges and finish > with fine grade wet or dry sandpaper > > -------- > Earl Brown > > I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I > intended to be. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=470987#470987 > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ > > > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Working with sheet metal > From: "Pocono John" <tinmotion(at)yahoo.com> > > > Thank you Tom , Bob and Earl. Got it. > > JC > > -------- > John Cronin > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=470988#470988 > > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ > > > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Dick Navratil's Rotec powered Piet > From: "charles mcfarland" <charles.w.mcfarland(at)gmail.com> > > > Hi Dale, > > Thanks for the reply and info. I think you are talking about Aircraft Spruce when > you said AC&S? I can send them a sample. I have had lots of help thanks > to the forum and think there is a good possibility I can get a close match by > using one of several suggested techniques along with some trial and error work > on some junk pieces. > > I will also try to call Aircraft Spruce just to see if they might have a record > of what Dick may have ordered years ago. Probably a long shot, but you never > know. > > Looking forward to Brodhead! > > Charlie > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=470989#470989 > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: dndboyd2(at)gmail.com
Date: Jul 15, 2017
Subject: Brodhead
I haven't seen anything about the Brodhead fly-in. Is it still on? Sent from my iPhone > On Jul 15, 2017, at 2:03 AM, Pietenpol-List Digest Server wrote: > > * > > ================================================= > Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive > ================================================= > > Today's complete Pietenpol-List Digest can also be found in either of the > two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted > in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes > and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version > of the Pietenpol-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor > such as Notepad or with a web browser. > > HTML Version: > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 17-07-14&Archive=Pietenpol > > Text Version: > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 17-07-14&Archive=Pietenpol > > > =============================================== > EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive > =============================================== > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > Pietenpol-List Digest Archive > --- > Total Messages Posted Fri 07/14/17: 3 > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > > Today's Message Index: > ---------------------- > > 1. 05:47 AM - Re: Working with sheet metal (echobravo4) > 2. 06:42 AM - Re: Working with sheet metal (Pocono John) > 3. 06:45 AM - Re: Dick Navratil's Rotec powered Piet (charles mcfarland) > > > > ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ > > > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Working with sheet metal > From: "echobravo4" <eab4(at)comcast.net> > > > Hi John > > i cut out the blanks with a metal cutting bandsaw- > get the shapes close with the grinder, then draw file the edges and finish > with fine grade wet or dry sandpaper > > -------- > Earl Brown > > I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I > intended to be. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=470987#470987 > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ > > > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Working with sheet metal > From: "Pocono John" <tinmotion(at)yahoo.com> > > > Thank you Tom , Bob and Earl. Got it. > > JC > > -------- > John Cronin > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=470988#470988 > > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ > > > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Dick Navratil's Rotec powered Piet > From: "charles mcfarland" <charles.w.mcfarland(at)gmail.com> > > > Hi Dale, > > Thanks for the reply and info. I think you are talking about Aircraft Spruce when > you said AC&S? I can send them a sample. I have had lots of help thanks > to the forum and think there is a good possibility I can get a close match by > using one of several suggested techniques along with some trial and error work > on some junk pieces. > > I will also try to call Aircraft Spruce just to see if they might have a record > of what Dick may have ordered years ago. Probably a long shot, but you never > know. > > Looking forward to Brodhead! > > Charlie > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=470989#470989 > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jack Textor <jack(at)textors.com>
Date: Jul 15, 2017
Subject: Re: Brodhead
Yes... http://www.eaa431.org/ Jack Textor Sent from my iPad > On Jul 15, 2017, at 7:17 PM, dndboyd2(at)gmail.com wrote: > > > I haven't seen anything about the Brodhead fly-in. Is it still on? > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Jul 15, 2017, at 2:03 AM, Pietenpol-List Digest Server @matronics.com> wrote: >> >> * >> >> ========================= ======================== >> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive >> ========================= ======================== >> >> Today's complete Pietenpol-List Digest can also be found in either of the >> two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted >> in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes >> and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version >> of the Pietenpol-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor >> such as Notepad or with a web browser. >> >> HTML Version: >> >> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=htm l&Chapter 17-07-14&Archive=Pietenpol >> >> Text Version: >> >> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt &Chapter 17-07-14&Archive=Pietenpol >> >> >> ========================= ====================== >> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive >> ========================= ====================== >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------- >> Pietenpol-List Digest Archive >> --- >> Total Messages Posted Fri 07/14/17: 3 >> ---------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> Today's Message Index: >> ---------------------- >> >> 1. 05:47 AM - Re: Working with sheet metal (echobravo4) >> 2. 06:42 AM - Re: Working with sheet metal (Pocono John) >> 3. 06:45 AM - Re: Dick Navratil's Rotec powered Piet (charles mcfarla nd) >> >> >> >> ________________________________ Message 1 ____________________________ _________ >> >> >> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Working with sheet metal >> From: "echobravo4" <eab4(at)comcast.net> >> >> >> Hi John >> >> i cut out the blanks with a metal cutting bandsaw- >> get the shapes close with the grinder, then draw file the edges and finis h >> with fine grade wet or dry sandpaper >> >> -------- >> Earl Brown >> >> I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up w here I >> intended to be. >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=470987#470987 >> >> >> ________________________________ Message 2 ____________________________ _________ >> >> >> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Working with sheet metal >> From: "Pocono John" <tinmotion(at)yahoo.com> >> >> >> Thank you Tom , Bob and Earl. Got it. >> >> JC >> >> -------- >> John Cronin >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=470988#470988 >> >> >> ________________________________ Message 3 ____________________________ _________ >> >> >> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Dick Navratil's Rotec powered Piet >> From: "charles mcfarland" <charles.w.mcfarland(at)gmail.com> >> >> >> Hi Dale, >> >> Thanks for the reply and info. I think you are talking about Aircraft Sp ruce when >> you said AC&S? I can send them a sample. I have had lots of help thanks >> to the forum and think there is a good possibility I can get a close matc h by >> using one of several suggested techniques along with some trial and error work >> on some junk pieces. >> >> I will also try to call Aircraft Spruce just to see if they might have a r ecord >> of what Dick may have ordered years ago. Probably a long shot, but you n ever >> know. >> >> Looking forward to Brodhead! >> >> Charlie >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=470989#470989 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Brodhead
From: "tkreiner" <tkreiner(at)gmail.com>
Date: Jul 16, 2017
The best - and probably official way - to learn about Brodhead is to sign up for the BPA forum, as details have already been listed there... The link it here: http://www.pietenpols.org/forum/viewforum.php?f=2&sid=0ca2d18230cadcc8b5733b01a3c54bde -------- Tom Kreiner Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=471038#471038 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: dndboyd2(at)gmail.com
Date: Jul 20, 2017
Subject: Brodhead
I am surely puzzled by the lack of conversation from the group concerning going to Brodhead . I have been on the list for 17 years but this is the first time I have seen no chatter about meeting someone, looking forward to going or asking questions about the event at Brodhead. I have seen the chapter 431 is announcing the event but that's all. Am I missing something? Are the Long time Piet people till around? Is there a different source of information? Dave Boyd NX7710J Champaign IL Sent from my iPhone > On Jul 20, 2017, at 2:03 AM, Pietenpol-List Digest Server wrote: > > * > > ================================================= > Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive > ================================================= > > Today's complete Pietenpol-List Digest can also be found in either of the > two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted > in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes > and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version > of the Pietenpol-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor > such as Notepad or with a web browser. > > HTML Version: > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 17-07-19&Archive=Pietenpol > > Text Version: > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 17-07-19&Archive=Pietenpol > > > =============================================== > EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive > =============================================== > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > Pietenpol-List Digest Archive > --- > Total Messages Posted Wed 07/19/17: 0 > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > > Today's Message Index: > ---------------------- > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: dndboyd2(at)gmail.com
Date: Jul 20, 2017
Subject: Brodhead
I am surely puzzled by the lack of conversation from the group concerning going to Brodhead . I have been on the list for 17 years but this is the first time I have seen no chatter about meeting someone, looking forward to going or asking questions about the event at Brodhead. I have seen the chapter 431 is announcing the event but that's all. Am I missing something? Are the Long time Piet people till around? Is there a different source of information? Dave Boyd NX7710J Champaign IL Sent from my iPhone > On Jul 20, 2017, at 2:03 AM, Pietenpol-List Digest Server wrote: > > * > > ================================================= > Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive > ================================================= > > Today's complete Pietenpol-List Digest can also be found in either of the > two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted > in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes > and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version > of the Pietenpol-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor > such as Notepad or with a web browser. > > HTML Version: > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 17-07-19&Archive=Pietenpol > > Text Version: > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 17-07-19&Archive=Pietenpol > > > =============================================== > EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive > =============================================== > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > Pietenpol-List Digest Archive > --- > Total Messages Posted Wed 07/19/17: 0 > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > > Today's Message Index: > ---------------------- > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Philips" <jack(at)bedfordlandings.com>
Subject: Brodhead
Date: Jul 20, 2017
Most discussion these days is on Facebook, not the Matronics list Jack Phillips Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of dndboyd2(at)gmail.com Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2017 7:08 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead I am surely puzzled by the lack of conversation from the group concerning going to Brodhead . I have been on the list for 17 years but this is the first time I have seen no chatter about meeting someone, looking forward to going or asking questions about the event at Brodhead. I have seen the chapter 431 is announcing the event but that's all. Am I missing something? Are the Long time Piet people till around? Is there a different source of information? Dave Boyd NX7710J Champaign IL Sent from my iPhone > On Jul 20, 2017, at 2:03 AM, Pietenpol-List Digest Server wrote: > > * > > ================================================= > Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive > ================================================= > > Today's complete Pietenpol-List Digest can also be found in either of > the two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest > formatted in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features > Hyperlinked Indexes and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes > the plain ASCII version of the Pietenpol-List Digest and can be viewed > with a generic text editor such as Notepad or with a web browser. > > HTML Version: > > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&C > hapter 17-07-19&Archive=Pietenpol > > Text Version: > > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Ch > apter 17-07-19&Archive=Pietenpol > > > =============================================== > EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive > =============================================== > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > Pietenpol-List Digest Archive > --- > Total Messages Posted Wed 07/19/17: 0 > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > > Today's Message Index: > ---------------------- > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Brodhead
From: Kip Gardner <kipgohio1957(at)gmail.com>
Date: Jul 20, 2017
Is there a particular FB page people are using? Kip Gardner > On Jul 20, 2017, at 7:47 AM, Jack Philips wrote: > > > Most discussion these days is on Facebook, not the Matronics list > > Jack Phillips > Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of > dndboyd2(at)gmail.com > Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2017 7:08 AM > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead > > > I am surely puzzled by the lack of conversation from the group concerning > going to Brodhead . I have been on the list for 17 years but this is the > first time I have seen no chatter about meeting someone, looking forward to > going or asking questions about the event at Brodhead. I have seen the > chapter 431 is announcing the event but that's all. > Am I missing something? Are the Long time Piet people till around? Is there > a different source of information? > Dave Boyd > NX7710J > Champaign IL > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Jul 20, 2017, at 2:03 AM, Pietenpol-List Digest Server > wrote: >> >> * >> >> ================================================= >> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive >> ================================================= >> >> Today's complete Pietenpol-List Digest can also be found in either of >> the two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest >> formatted in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features >> Hyperlinked Indexes and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes >> the plain ASCII version of the Pietenpol-List Digest and can be viewed >> with a generic text editor such as Notepad or with a web browser. >> >> HTML Version: >> >> >> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&C >> hapter 17-07-19&Archive=Pietenpol >> >> Text Version: >> >> >> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Ch >> apter 17-07-19&Archive=Pietenpol >> >> >> =============================================== >> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive >> =============================================== >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------- >> Pietenpol-List Digest Archive >> --- >> Total Messages Posted Wed 07/19/17: 0 >> ---------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> Today's Message Index: >> ---------------------- >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jack Textor <jack(at)textors.com>
Date: Jul 20, 2017
Subject: Re: Brodhead
Dave, many are utilizing Facebook, Pietenpol. Jack Textor Sent from my iPad > On Jul 20, 2017, at 6:08 AM, dndboyd2(at)gmail.com wrote: > > > I am surely puzzled by the lack of conversation from the group concerning going to Brodhead . I have been on the list for 17 years but this is the first time I have seen no chatter about meeting someone, looking forward to going or asking questions about the event at Brodhead. I have seen the chapter 431 is announcing the event but that's all. > Am I missing something? Are the Long time Piet people till around? Is there a different source of information? > Dave Boyd > NX7710J > Champaign IL > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Jul 20, 2017, at 2:03 AM, Pietenpol-List Digest Server wrote: >> >> * >> >> ================================================= >> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive >> ================================================= >> >> Today's complete Pietenpol-List Digest can also be found in either of the >> two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted >> in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes >> and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version >> of the Pietenpol-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor >> such as Notepad or with a web browser. >> >> HTML Version: >> >> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 17-07-19&Archive=Pietenpol >> >> Text Version: >> >> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 17-07-19&Archive=Pietenpol >> >> >> =============================================== >> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive >> =============================================== >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------- >> Pietenpol-List Digest Archive >> --- >> Total Messages Posted Wed 07/19/17: 0 >> ---------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> Today's Message Index: >> ---------------------- >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jack Textor <jack(at)textors.com>
Date: Jul 20, 2017
Subject: Re: Brodhead
Search Pietenpol Jack Textor Sent from my iPad > On Jul 20, 2017, at 7:07 AM, Kip Gardner wrote: > > > Is there a particular FB page people are using? > > Kip Gardner > >> On Jul 20, 2017, at 7:47 AM, Jack Philips wrote: >> >> >> Most discussion these days is on Facebook, not the Matronics list >> >> Jack Phillips >> Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of >> dndboyd2(at)gmail.com >> Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2017 7:08 AM >> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead >> >> >> I am surely puzzled by the lack of conversation from the group concerning >> going to Brodhead . I have been on the list for 17 years but this is the >> first time I have seen no chatter about meeting someone, looking forward to >> going or asking questions about the event at Brodhead. I have seen the >> chapter 431 is announcing the event but that's all. >> Am I missing something? Are the Long time Piet people till around? Is there >> a different source of information? >> Dave Boyd >> NX7710J >> Champaign IL >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Jul 20, 2017, at 2:03 AM, Pietenpol-List Digest Server >> wrote: >>> >>> * >>> >>> ================================================= >>> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive >>> ================================================= >>> >>> Today's complete Pietenpol-List Digest can also be found in either of >>> the two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest >>> formatted in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features >>> Hyperlinked Indexes and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes >>> the plain ASCII version of the Pietenpol-List Digest and can be viewed >>> with a generic text editor such as Notepad or with a web browser. >>> >>> HTML Version: >>> >>> >>> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&C >>> hapter 17-07-19&Archive=Pietenpol >>> >>> Text Version: >>> >>> >>> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Ch >>> apter 17-07-19&Archive=Pietenpol >>> >>> >>> =============================================== >>> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive >>> =============================================== >>> >>> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------- >>> Pietenpol-List Digest Archive >>> --- >>> Total Messages Posted Wed 07/19/17: 0 >>> ---------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> >>> Today's Message Index: >>> ---------------------- >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: dndboyd2(at)gmail.com
Date: Jul 21, 2017
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 6 Msgs - 07/20/17
Thanks to all who let me know about Facebook. I will check it out. Trying to keep up with modern communications is challenging. Squawk 7600 Sent from my iPhone > On Jul 21, 2017, at 2:01 AM, Pietenpol-List Digest Server wrote: > > * > > ================================================= > Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive > ================================================= > > Today's complete Pietenpol-List Digest can also be found in either of the > two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted > in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes > and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version > of the Pietenpol-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor > such as Notepad or with a web browser. > > HTML Version: > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 17-07-20&Archive=Pietenpol > > Text Version: > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 17-07-20&Archive=Pietenpol > > > =============================================== > EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive > =============================================== > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > Pietenpol-List Digest Archive > --- > Total Messages Posted Thu 07/20/17: 6 > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > > Today's Message Index: > ---------------------- > > 1. 04:08 AM - Brodhead (dndboyd2(at)gmail.com) > 2. 04:08 AM - Brodhead (dndboyd2(at)gmail.com) > 3. 04:48 AM - Re: Brodhead (Jack Philips) > 4. 05:07 AM - Re: Brodhead (Kip Gardner) > 5. 05:18 AM - Re: Brodhead (Jack Textor) > 6. 05:19 AM - Re: Brodhead (Jack Textor) > > > > ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ > > > From: dndboyd2(at)gmail.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead > > > I am surely puzzled by the lack of conversation from the group concerning going > to Brodhead . I have been on the list for 17 years but this is the first time > I have seen no chatter about meeting someone, looking forward to going or asking > questions about the event at Brodhead. I have seen the chapter 431 is announcing > the event but that's all. > Am I missing something? Are the Long time Piet people till around? Is there a > different source of information? > Dave Boyd > NX7710J > Champaign IL > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Jul 20, 2017, at 2:03 AM, Pietenpol-List Digest Server > wrote: >> >> * >> >> ================================================ >> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive >> ================================================ >> >> Today's complete Pietenpol-List Digest can also be found in either of the >> two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted >> in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes >> and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version >> of the Pietenpol-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor >> such as Notepad or with a web browser. >> >> HTML Version: >> >> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 17-07-19&Archive=Pietenpol >> >> Text Version: >> >> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 17-07-19&Archive=Pietenpol >> >> >> ============================================== >> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive >> ============================================== >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------- >> Pietenpol-List Digest Archive >> --- >> Total Messages Posted Wed 07/19/17: 0 >> ---------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> Today's Message Index: >> ---------------------- >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ > > > From: dndboyd2(at)gmail.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead > > > I am surely puzzled by the lack of conversation from the group concerning going > to Brodhead . I have been on the list for 17 years but this is the first time > I have seen no chatter about meeting someone, looking forward to going or asking > questions about the event at Brodhead. I have seen the chapter 431 is announcing > the event but that's all. > Am I missing something? Are the Long time Piet people till around? Is there a > different source of information? > Dave Boyd > NX7710J > Champaign IL > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Jul 20, 2017, at 2:03 AM, Pietenpol-List Digest Server > wrote: >> >> * >> >> ================================================ >> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive >> ================================================ >> >> Today's complete Pietenpol-List Digest can also be found in either of the >> two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted >> in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes >> and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version >> of the Pietenpol-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor >> such as Notepad or with a web browser. >> >> HTML Version: >> >> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 17-07-19&Archive=Pietenpol >> >> Text Version: >> >> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 17-07-19&Archive=Pietenpol >> >> >> ============================================== >> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive >> ============================================== >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------- >> Pietenpol-List Digest Archive >> --- >> Total Messages Posted Wed 07/19/17: 0 >> ---------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> Today's Message Index: >> ---------------------- >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ > > > From: "Jack Philips" <jack(at)bedfordlandings.com> > Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead > > > Most discussion these days is on Facebook, not the Matronics list > > Jack Phillips > Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of > dndboyd2(at)gmail.com > Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2017 7:08 AM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead > > > I am surely puzzled by the lack of conversation from the group concerning > going to Brodhead . I have been on the list for 17 years but this is the > first time I have seen no chatter about meeting someone, looking forward to > going or asking questions about the event at Brodhead. I have seen the > chapter 431 is announcing the event but that's all. > Am I missing something? Are the Long time Piet people till around? Is there > a different source of information? > Dave Boyd > NX7710J > Champaign IL > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Jul 20, 2017, at 2:03 AM, Pietenpol-List Digest Server > wrote: >> >> * >> >> ================================================ >> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive >> ================================================ >> >> Today's complete Pietenpol-List Digest can also be found in either of >> the two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest >> formatted in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features >> Hyperlinked Indexes and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes >> the plain ASCII version of the Pietenpol-List Digest and can be viewed >> with a generic text editor such as Notepad or with a web browser. >> >> HTML Version: >> >> >> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&C >> hapter 17-07-19&Archive=Pietenpol >> >> Text Version: >> >> >> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Ch >> apter 17-07-19&Archive=Pietenpol >> >> >> ============================================== >> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive >> ============================================== >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------- >> Pietenpol-List Digest Archive >> --- >> Total Messages Posted Wed 07/19/17: 0 >> ---------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> Today's Message Index: >> ---------------------- >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ > > > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead > From: Kip Gardner <kipgohio1957(at)gmail.com> > > > Is there a particular FB page people are using? > > Kip Gardner > >> On Jul 20, 2017, at 7:47 AM, Jack Philips wrote: >> >> >> Most discussion these days is on Facebook, not the Matronics list >> >> Jack Phillips >> Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of >> dndboyd2(at)gmail.com >> Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2017 7:08 AM >> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead >> >> >> I am surely puzzled by the lack of conversation from the group concerning >> going to Brodhead . I have been on the list for 17 years but this is the >> first time I have seen no chatter about meeting someone, looking forward to >> going or asking questions about the event at Brodhead. I have seen the >> chapter 431 is announcing the event but that's all. >> Am I missing something? Are the Long time Piet people till around? Is there >> a different source of information? >> Dave Boyd >> NX7710J >> Champaign IL >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Jul 20, 2017, at 2:03 AM, Pietenpol-List Digest Server >> wrote: >>> >>> * >>> >>> ================================================ >>> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive >>> ================================================ >>> >>> Today's complete Pietenpol-List Digest can also be found in either of >>> the two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest >>> formatted in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features >>> Hyperlinked Indexes and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes >>> the plain ASCII version of the Pietenpol-List Digest and can be viewed >>> with a generic text editor such as Notepad or with a web browser. >>> >>> HTML Version: >>> >>> >>> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&C >>> hapter 17-07-19&Archive=Pietenpol >>> >>> Text Version: >>> >>> >>> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Ch >>> apter 17-07-19&Archive=Pietenpol >>> >>> >>> ============================================== >>> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive >>> ============================================== >>> >>> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------- >>> Pietenpol-List Digest Archive >>> --- >>> Total Messages Posted Wed 07/19/17: 0 >>> ---------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> >>> Today's Message Index: >>> ---------------------- >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ > > > From: Jack Textor <jack(at)textors.com> > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead > > > Dave, many are utilizing Facebook, Pietenpol. > > Jack Textor > > Sent from my iPad > >> On Jul 20, 2017, at 6:08 AM, dndboyd2(at)gmail.com wrote: >> >> >> I am surely puzzled by the lack of conversation from the group concerning going > to Brodhead . I have been on the list for 17 years but this is the first time > I have seen no chatter about meeting someone, looking forward to going or > asking questions about the event at Brodhead. I have seen the chapter 431 is > announcing the event but that's all. >> Am I missing something? Are the Long time Piet people till around? Is there a > different source of information? >> Dave Boyd >> NX7710J >> Champaign IL >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Jul 20, 2017, at 2:03 AM, Pietenpol-List Digest Server > wrote: >>> >>> * >>> >>> ================================================ >>> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive >>> ================================================ >>> >>> Today's complete Pietenpol-List Digest can also be found in either of the >>> two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted >>> in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes >>> and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version >>> of the Pietenpol-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor >>> such as Notepad or with a web browser. >>> >>> HTML Version: >>> >>> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 17-07-19&Archive=Pietenpol >>> >>> Text Version: >>> >>> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 17-07-19&Archive=Pietenpol >>> >>> >>> ============================================== >>> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive >>> ============================================== >>> >>> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------- >>> Pietenpol-List Digest Archive >>> --- >>> Total Messages Posted Wed 07/19/17: 0 >>> ---------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> >>> Today's Message Index: >>> ---------------------- >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ > > > From: Jack Textor <jack(at)textors.com> > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead > > > Search Pietenpol > > Jack Textor > > Sent from my iPad > >> On Jul 20, 2017, at 7:07 AM, Kip Gardner wrote: >> >> >> Is there a particular FB page people are using? >> >> Kip Gardner >> >>> On Jul 20, 2017, at 7:47 AM, Jack Philips wrote: >>> >>> >>> Most discussion these days is on Facebook, not the Matronics list >>> >>> Jack Phillips >>> Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com >>> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of >>> dndboyd2(at)gmail.com >>> Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2017 7:08 AM >>> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >>> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead >>> >>> >>> I am surely puzzled by the lack of conversation from the group concerning >>> going to Brodhead . I have been on the list for 17 years but this is the >>> first time I have seen no chatter about meeting someone, looking forward to >>> going or asking questions about the event at Brodhead. I have seen the >>> chapter 431 is announcing the event but that's all. >>> Am I missing something? Are the Long time Piet people till around? Is there >>> a different source of information? >>> Dave Boyd >>> NX7710J >>> Champaign IL >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>> On Jul 20, 2017, at 2:03 AM, Pietenpol-List Digest Server >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> * >>>> >>>> ================================================ >>>> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive >>>> ================================================ >>>> >>>> Today's complete Pietenpol-List Digest can also be found in either of >>>> the two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest >>>> formatted in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features >>>> Hyperlinked Indexes and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes >>>> the plain ASCII version of the Pietenpol-List Digest and can be viewed >>>> with a generic text editor such as Notepad or with a web browser. >>>> >>>> HTML Version: >>>> >>>> >>>> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&C >>>> hapter 17-07-19&Archive=Pietenpol >>>> >>>> Text Version: >>>> >>>> >>>> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Ch >>>> apter 17-07-19&Archive=Pietenpol >>>> >>>> >>>> ============================================== >>>> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive >>>> ============================================== >>>> >>>> >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------- >>>> Pietenpol-List Digest Archive >>>> --- >>>> Total Messages Posted Wed 07/19/17: 0 >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> >>>> Today's Message Index: >>>> ---------------------- >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Working with sheet metal
From: "womenfly2" <Love2Fly.KAP(at)gmail.com>
Date: Jul 21, 2017
One of the best tools I have ever purchased for cutting 4130 and other metals ... SWAG V4.0 Portaband Table (http://www.swagoffroad.com/SWAG-V40-Portaband-Table_p_63.html/) -------- Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=471224#471224 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/01fd61665e4c655422b4ad7bf556e12004e3cbeb17_211.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/0154f9d7e8f519dfd2498e1e0f3d86631817095900_203.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: new smartphone app for pilots
From: "rampil" <ira.rampil(at)gmail.com>
Date: Jul 28, 2017
Greetings All! Aviametrix is pleased and proud to announce a new iOS app for pilots! The new App is Crosswind-Live! This app pulls current official aviation weather from an Internet connection and draws the wind arrows over a runway map of the closest airport and also calculates the crosswind components. If you like, the app will draw the current conditions at any other airport! It also gives you the airport info, comm freqs, and the full METAR. Crosswind-Live! contains a database of over 55,000 runways at over 45,000 airports worldwide, including airports, glider ports, sea bases, heliports, and many closed airports. This is a great app for student pilots, taildraggers, and anyone who likes to plan their takeoffs and landings. Crosswind-Live joins the other three Apps for Pilots developed by Aviametrix and yours truly! AvAltimeter - an actual, working sensitive altimeter with a Kollsman Window adjustment. Smart features like Oxygen alarm, TAS, and takeoff performance. Twilight Calculator - A self contained app which calculates Civil Twilight, standard sunrise/set, Nautical Twilight, and Astronomical Twilight. At your current GPS location, or anywhere in the world, for today, or a different date. AvWx No touch METARs! The simplest weather reports for pilots. Just open the App and it shows you the closest METARs. You can sort the METARs by age, bearing from your location, or by distance! You can find FAQs and documentation for these apps on the support page for my web site. Thanks! -------- Ira N224XS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=471335#471335 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 31, 2017
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Brodhead
Hi Dave, Much of the excitement and communications has been transferred to Facebook (Pietenpol Group). It is a very active group, more than 1000 strong. I would suggest getting on there because I believe this Matronics group is probably going to get even more quiet over time. PS. I saw my old A&P instructor Terry Ladage at OSH and talked to him at length..it was so good to see him again. Dan Helsper Loensloe Airfield Puryear, TN -----Original Message----- From: dndboyd2 <dndboyd2(at)gmail.com> Sent: Thu, Jul 20, 2017 6:32 am Subject: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead I am surely puzzled by the lack of conversation from the group concerning going to Brodhead . I have been on the list for 17 years but this is the first time I have seen no chatter about meeting someone, looking forward to going or asking questions about the event at Brodhead. I have seen the chapter 431 is announcing the event but that's all. Am I missing something? Are the Long time Piet people till around? Is there a different source of information? Dave Boyd NX7710J Champaign IL Sent from my iPhone > On Jul 20, 2017, at 2:03 AM, Pietenpol-List Digest Server wrote: > > * > > ================================================= > Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive > ================================================= > > Today's complete Pietenpol-List Digest can also be found in either of the > two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted > in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes > and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version > of the Pietenpol-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor > such as Notepad or with a web browser. > > HTML Version: > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 17-07-19&Archive=Pietenpol > > Text Version: > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 17-07-19&Archive=Pietenpol > > > =============================================== > EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive > =============================================== > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > Pietenpol-List Digest Archive > --- > Total Messages Posted Wed 07/19/17: 0 > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > > Today's Message Index: > ---------------------- > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: I ran into Jack Phillips
From: "Pocono John" <tinmotion(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Aug 12, 2017
I hope it's OK to post a story; a little break from the usual I guess. I was bringing my Stinson 108 down to NC. I selected Smith Mountain (W91) for my final fuel stop as it had a 'Bed and Breakfast' and I might get stuck there since it would be evening. Sure enough, I couldn't get a ride to an ethanol free gas station at that time, so I was stuck. The flight instructor in the office called Jack and then arrangements were made. I didn't know yet it was Jack Phillips. So the instructor drove me down the runway in a small cart to the B&B, which is alongside the runway behind two hangers. At this point, it's almost 10PM. I didn't know at the time check-in was between 3 and 5 (oops!). So Jack and his wife Karen met me. They had been at a friends house with others playing cards. I felt badly for interrupting their evening. The (large) house is truly magnificent. It was incredibly clean, neat and decorated. I'll post a link to their website here. Karen prepared an awesome breakfast. The bacon alone was something unique.never had anything like it. DELICIOUS! OK, so I'm leaving, and Jack is going to drive me back to my plane. We enter the hanger (where his car is) and all of a sudden, right there before me, was his Pietenpolright there! In shock and disbelief, I actually asked him what his last name was. "Phillips" he responded. Wow! I told him I knew him from this forum and we had a short discussion about the Pietenpol and how much I had built (ribs, fuselage and horizontal stab). He drove me down to my plane and he checked it out. We said goodbye and eventually the airport manager took me for gas. As I departed this beautiful airport, I looked down and saw Jack with someone. I rocked my wings and he waved to me. It was such a cool moment. Small world. If you're looking for a place to go on vacation, I certainly recommend you go to W91 (fly or drive) and stay at Bedford Landings. You won't be disappointed. http://www.bedfordlandings.com John Cronin -------- John Cronin Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=471785#471785 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jack Textor <jack(at)textors.com>
Date: Aug 12, 2017
Subject: Re: I ran into Jack Phillips
THE Jack Phillips? Wow you lucked out! Jack Textor Sent from my iPad > On Aug 12, 2017, at 8:45 AM, Pocono John wrote: > > > I hope it's OK to post a story; a little break from the usual I guess. > > I was bringing my Stinson 108 down to NC. I selected Smith Mountain (W91) for my final fuel stop as it had a 'Bed and Breakfast' and I might get stuck there since it would be evening. > > Sure enough, I couldn't get a ride to an ethanol free gas station at that time, so I was stuck. The flight instructor in the office called Jack and then arrangements were made. > > I didn't know yet it was Jack Phillips. > > So the instructor drove me down the runway in a small cart to the B&B, which is alongside the runway behind two hangers. At this point, it's almost 10PM. I didn't know at the time check-in was between 3 and 5 (oops!). > > So Jack and his wife Karen met me. They had been at a friends house with others playing cards. I felt badly for interrupting their evening. > > The (large) house is truly magnificent. It was incredibly clean, neat and decorated. I'll post a link to their website here. Karen prepared an awesome breakfast. The bacon alone was something unique.never had anything like it. DELICIOUS! > > OK, so I'm leaving, and Jack is going to drive me back to my plane. We enter the hanger (where his car is) and all of a sudden, right there before me, was his Pietenpolright there! > > In shock and disbelief, I actually asked him what his last name was. "Phillips" he responded. Wow! > > I told him I knew him from this forum and we had a short discussion about the Pietenpol and how much I had built (ribs, fuselage and horizontal stab). > > He drove me down to my plane and he checked it out. We said goodbye and eventually the airport manager took me for gas. As I departed this beautiful airport, I looked down and saw Jack with someone. I rocked my wings and he waved to me. It was such a cool moment. > > Small world. > > If you're looking for a place to go on vacation, I certainly recommend you go to W91 (fly or drive) and stay at Bedford Landings. You won't be disappointed. > > http://www.bedfordlandings.com > > John Cronin > > -------- > John Cronin > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=471785#471785 > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Philips" <jack(at)bedfordlandings.com>
Subject: I ran into Jack Phillips
Date: Aug 12, 2017
Watch it, Jack -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack Textor Sent: Saturday, August 12, 2017 10:44 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: I ran into Jack Phillips THE Jack Phillips? Wow you lucked out! Jack Textor Sent from my iPad > On Aug 12, 2017, at 8:45 AM, Pocono John wrote: > > --> > > I hope it's OK to post a story; a little break from the usual I guess. > > I was bringing my Stinson 108 down to NC. I selected Smith Mountain (W91) for my final fuel stop as it had a 'Bed and Breakfast' and I might get stuck there since it would be evening. > > Sure enough, I couldn't get a ride to an ethanol free gas station at that time, so I was stuck. The flight instructor in the office called Jack and then arrangements were made. > > I didn't know yet it was Jack Phillips. > > So the instructor drove me down the runway in a small cart to the B&B, which is alongside the runway behind two hangers. At this point, it's almost 10PM. I didn't know at the time check-in was between 3 and 5 (oops!). > > So Jack and his wife Karen met me. They had been at a friends house with others playing cards. I felt badly for interrupting their evening. > > The (large) house is truly magnificent. It was incredibly clean, neat and decorated. I'll post a link to their website here. Karen prepared an awesome breakfast. The bacon alone was something unique.never had anything like it. DELICIOUS! > > OK, so I'm leaving, and Jack is going to drive me back to my plane. We enter the hanger (where his car is) and all of a sudden, right there before me, was his Pietenpolright there! > > In shock and disbelief, I actually asked him what his last name was. "Phillips" he responded. Wow! > > I told him I knew him from this forum and we had a short discussion about the Pietenpol and how much I had built (ribs, fuselage and horizontal stab). > > He drove me down to my plane and he checked it out. We said goodbye and eventually the airport manager took me for gas. As I departed this beautiful airport, I looked down and saw Jack with someone. I rocked my wings and he waved to me. It was such a cool moment. > > Small world. > > If you're looking for a place to go on vacation, I certainly recommend you go to W91 (fly or drive) and stay at Bedford Landings. You won't be disappointed. > > http://www.bedfordlandings.com > > John Cronin > > -------- > John Cronin > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=471785#471785 > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: I ran into Jack Phillips
From: "Pocono John" <tinmotion(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Aug 12, 2017
The one and only. Yes, I lucked out. jack(at)textors.com wrote: > THE Jack Phillips? Wow you lucked out! > > Jack Textor > > Sent from my iPad > -------- John Cronin Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=471806#471806 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 14, 2017
From: goffelectric(at)comcast.net
Subject: Fwd:
Got my airworthiness certificate yesterday. It only took 5 years and four months. Keith Goff [image/jpeg:IMG_1012.JPG] [image/jpeg:IMG_1013.JPG] Sent from my iPhone ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Glen Schweizer <glenschweizer(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Aug 13, 2017
Subject: Re: Fwd:
Congrats=F0=9F=98=83=F0=9F=91=8D > On Aug 13, 2017, at 6:07 PM, goffelectric(at)comcast.net wrote: > > > > Got my airworthiness certificate yesterday. It only took 5 years and four m onths. > > Keith Goff > > > > > [image/jpeg:IMG_1012.JPG] > > > > > > > [image/jpeg:IMG_1013.JPG] > > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fwd:
From: "TriScout" <apfelcyber(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Aug 13, 2017
Congrats -------- KLNC A65-8 N2308C Slick 4330's AN Hardware Airframe 780TT W72CK-42 Sensenich Standard Factory GN-1 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=471837#471837 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com>
Date: Aug 13, 2017
Subject: Re: Fwd:
Congratulations! On Aug 13, 2017 8:09 PM, wrote: > > > Got my airworthiness certificate yesterday. It only took 5 years and four > months. > > Keith Goff > > > [image/jpeg:IMG_1012.JPG] > > > [image/jpeg:IMG_1013.JPG] > > > Sent from my iPhone > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Semih Oksay <semihoksay(at)gmail.com>
Date: Aug 14, 2017
Subject: Re: Fwd:
Congratulations!... On Mon, Aug 14, 2017 at 6:39 AM, Steven Dortch wrote: > Congratulations! > > On Aug 13, 2017 8:09 PM, wrote: > >> >> >> Got my airworthiness certificate yesterday. It only took 5 years and four >> months. >> >> Keith Goff >> >> >> >> >> [image/jpeg:IMG_1012.JPG] >> >> >> >> >> >> >> [image/jpeg:IMG_1013.JPG] >> >> >> >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> -- Semih Oksay ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fwd:
From: "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Aug 14, 2017
Awesome, Keith! Congrats! Are you going to fly over to Barnwell this year? I would love to see it in person. -------- Semper Fi, Terry Hand Athens, GA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=471842#471842 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 14, 2017
From: goffelectric(at)comcast.net
Subject: Re: Fwd:
Thanks! It's in Barnwell now, I thought the three runways would be a good idea for fight testing. Thanks, Keith ----- Original Message ----- From: "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com> Sent: Monday, August 14, 2017 8:54:21 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Fwd: Awesome, Keith! Congrats! Are you going to fly over to Barnwell this year? I would love to see it in person. -------- Semper Fi, Terry Hand Athens, GA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=471842#471842 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: vic groah <vicgroah(at)gmail.com>
Date: Aug 14, 2017
Subject: Re: Fwd:
that truly is a great day. That first flight is fun too. I remember well our firsts. not bad time to get done better than many. VG On Sun, Aug 13, 2017 at 11:44 PM, Semih Oksay wrote: > Congratulations!... > > On Mon, Aug 14, 2017 at 6:39 AM, Steven Dortch > wrote: > >> Congratulations! >> >> On Aug 13, 2017 8:09 PM, wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> Got my airworthiness certificate yesterday. It only took 5 years and >>> four months. >>> >>> Keith Goff >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> [image/jpeg:IMG_1012.JPG] >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> [image/jpeg:IMG_1013.JPG] >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> > > > -- > Semih Oksay > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 14, 2017
From: goffelectric(at)comcast.net
Subject: Re: Fwd:
Thanks, it was fun building and kept me out of trouble. Keith ----- Original Message ----- From: "vic groah" <vicgroah(at)gmail.com> Sent: Monday, August 14, 2017 12:28:09 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fwd: that truly is a great day. That first flight is fun too. I remember well our firsts. not bad time to get done better than many. VG On Sun, Aug 13, 2017 at 11:44 PM, Semih Oksay < semihoksay(at)gmail.com > wrote: Congratulations!... On Mon, Aug 14, 2017 at 6:39 AM, Steven Dortch < steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com > wrote:
Congratulations! On Aug 13, 2017 8:09 PM, < goffelectric(at)comcast.net > wrote:
Got my airworthiness certificate yesterday. It only took 5 years and four months. Keith Goff [image/jpeg:IMG_1012.JPG] [image/jpeg:IMG_1013.JPG] Sent from my iPhone
-- Semih Oksay
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 14, 2017
From: Jim Boyer <boyerjrb(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Fwd:
Beautiful Pietenpol; I like the colors. Have fun flying her for many many hours. Jim B. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 14, 2017
From: goffelectric(at)comcast.net
Subject: Re: Fwd:
Thanks ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steven Dortch" <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com> Sent: Sunday, August 13, 2017 11:39:26 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fwd: Congratulations! On Aug 13, 2017 8:09 PM, < goffelectric(at)comcast.net > wrote: Got my airworthiness certificate yesterday. It only took 5 years and four months. Keith Goff [image/jpeg:IMG_1012.JPG] [image/jpeg:IMG_1013.JPG] Sent from my iPhone ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 14, 2017
From: goffelectric(at)comcast.net
Subject: Re: Fwd:
Thanks ----- Original Message ----- From: "Semih Oksay" <semihoksay(at)gmail.com> Sent: Monday, August 14, 2017 2:44:30 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fwd: Congratulations!... On Mon, Aug 14, 2017 at 6:39 AM, Steven Dortch < steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com > wrote: Congratulations! On Aug 13, 2017 8:09 PM, < goffelectric(at)comcast.net > wrote:
Got my airworthiness certificate yesterday. It only took 5 years and four months. Keith Goff [image/jpeg:IMG_1012.JPG] [image/jpeg:IMG_1013.JPG] Sent from my iPhone
-- Semih Oksay ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 14, 2017
From: goffelectric(at)comcast.net
Subject: Re: Fwd:
Thanks very much! I'm exited, I've only rented planes before now, I hope to wear it out! Keith ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Boyer" <boyerjrb(at)comcast.net> Sent: Monday, August 14, 2017 4:39:14 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fwd: Beautiful Pietenpol; I like the colors. Have fun flying her for many many hours. Jim B. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Glen Schweizer <glenschweizer(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Aug 15, 2017
Subject: Re: Fwd:
Nice looking airplane. Tells us about it please > On Aug 13, 2017, at 6:07 PM, goffelectric(at)comcast.net wrote: > > > > Got my airworthiness certificate yesterday. It only took 5 years and four m onths. > > Keith Goff > > > > > [image/jpeg:IMG_1012.JPG] > > > > > > > [image/jpeg:IMG_1013.JPG] > > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Barry Davis" <bed(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Fwd:
Date: Aug 16, 2017
Looks GREAT! Let the fun continue. Barry NX973BP From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of goffelectric(at)comcast.net Sent: Sunday, August 13, 2017 9:07 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fwd: Got my airworthiness certificate yesterday. It only took 5 years and four months. Keith Goff [image/jpeg:IMG_1012.JPG] [image/jpeg:IMG_1013.JPG] Sent from my iPhone ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 16, 2017
From: goffelectric(at)comcast.net
Subject: Re: Fwd:
Thanks! Fall flying weather is coming soon! Keith ----- Original Message ----- From: "Barry Davis" <bed(at)mindspring.com> Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2017 9:58:58 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Fwd: Looks GREAT! Let the fun continue. Barry NX973BP From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of goffelectric(at)comcast.net Sent: Sunday, August 13, 2017 9:07 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fwd: Got my airworthiness certificate yesterday. It only took 5 years and four months. Keith Goff [image/jpeg:IMG_1012.JPG] [image/jpeg:IMG_1013.JPG] Sent from my iPhone ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com>
Date: Aug 23, 2017
Subject: VNE
Check out this article. http://www.flyingmag.com/technique/proficiency/technicalities-are-you-feeling-lucky ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "L. Harris" <larharris2(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: VNE
Date: Aug 24, 2017
Thanks for posting. A lot of good speed info. here. Lorenzo ________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com <owner-pietenpol-list-serve r(at)matronics.com> on behalf of Steven Dortch Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2017 11:31 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: VNE Check out this article. http://www.flyingmag.com/technique/proficiency/technicalities-are-you-feeli ng-lucky [http://www.flyingmag.com/sites/flyingmag.com/files/styles/small_1x_/public /import/2010/sites/all/files/_images/201009/FLY0910_tech_674x674.jpg?itok =NSLgN5d6]<http://www.flyingmag.com/technique/proficiency/technicalities- are-you-feeling-lucky> Technicalities: Are You Feeling Lucky? | Flying Magazine<http://www.flyingm ag.com/technique/proficiency/technicalities-are-you-feeling-lucky> www.flyingmag.com IT HAPPENED LAST MAY, DURING an air race in South Africa. An airplane was d escending toward a turn point in a valley when the pilot of a following air plane saw what ... ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com>
Date: Aug 24, 2017
Subject: Website down?
is the Brodhead Pietenpol site down? http://www.pietenpols.org/forum/ -- Blue Skies, Steve D ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Website down?
From: Rick <lmforge(at)earthlink.net>
Date: Aug 24, 2017
It's working fine for me Sent from my iPad > On Aug 24, 2017, at 10:58 AM, Steven Dortch wr ote: > > is the Brodhead Pietenpol site down? > http://www.pietenpols.org/forum/ > > -- > Blue Skies, > Steve D ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Website down?
From: "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Aug 24, 2017
Worked fine for me as well. It's you Steve. ;0) -------- Semper Fi, Terry Hand Athens, GA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472149#472149 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: VNE
From: "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Aug 24, 2017
There is indeed a lot of food for thought in that article. And since I can't stand to read things like this without playing with numbers, I decided to run some numbers for the Air Camper through the formulae that are presented in the article. First, there is the theoretical "design cruising speed" Vc, which, for aircraft with wing loadings of less than 20 pounds per square foot, is stated to be 33 times the square root of the wing loading. The "Improved" Air Camper plans show a span of 29 ft and a chord of 5 ft, which gives 145 sq.ft., and a max gross weight of 1,080 lbs (varies, depending on where you're looking). Resulting wing loading is 7.45 lb/sq.ft., so 33 times the square root of that is 90 KIAS. As the author observes, many airplanes can't actually cruise at this design cruising speed and that's very likely the case for most Air Campers since that translates to almost 104 MPH indicated. But let's continue. The article says that Vc provides the basis for determining the design dive speed Vd, which is 1.4 times Vc or 126 KIAS (146 MPH indicated). Furthermore, the never-exceed speed Vne is nine-tenths of Vd or 113 KIAS (131 MPH indicated). The 1932 plans give a maximum speed Vne of 90 MPH (78 kt). It goes on to say that if the airplane can't achieve its design Vd in flight, then the dive speed actually attained in flight test, Vdf, replaces Vd, and Vne is nine-tenths of that. I would be very curious to know if anyone has ever flight-tested their Air Camper to maximum dive speed, or had one anywhere close to 131 MPH indicated. I have not. Now for the interesting, if somewhat esoteric, part of the discussion. Vne is an indicated airspeed, but the critical *flutter* speed may be a true airspeed and as a result the margin separating Vne from the critical flutter speed gets smaller as you gain altitude because true airspeed increases as the air density decreases, and air density generally decreases with altitude. So for example, if John Dilatush's turbocharged Subaru-powered Air Camper, operating out of his home airport of Salida Colorado (7,523' MSL) is flown at 2500' AGL, it would be at roughly 10,000 MSL. If it were summertime and the OAT were 95F with a relative humidity of 30%, the density altitude would be 14,620'. If he was flying at Vne of 90 MPH (78 KIAS), his TAS would be 97 kt. The article states that the cumulative margin between Vne and critical flutter speed is 33%, so in this (theoretical) case, that would be 26 kt. In the condition described, this airplane could be flying within 7 kt of its critical flutter speed but showing that it had not exceeded the designer's Vne of 90 MPH (78 kt). In the mountains, in the summer, with thermals... could the airplane gain another 7kt on a strong ridge lift or downdraft and hit critical flutter? Does anyone really know how close to actual any of these numbers are? Who developed the formulae and rules of thumb, and how much fluff or slack did they put in the numbers? So numbers exercises aren't just for the fast planes. Even for us low and slow flyers who may never see airspeeds in the triple digits, aerodynamic effects are still in play. No, we're not all flying ticking time bombs here, but since Steve raised the issue by posting the link to the article, I thought I would exercise my calculator to see what the numbers might be for this what-if. I like what the author says: "...if I were to ride a wave to 35,000 feet in a 172, I would not be in a hurry to peg the airspeed at redline on the way back down." I think I would, though! Do you know how COLD it is up there??!! -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power, 72x36 Culver prop Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472162#472162 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "(null) raykrause" <raykrause(at)frontiernet.net>
Subject: Re: VNE
Date: Aug 25, 2017
Oscar, Thanks for the math exercise! I really enjoyed it. I like it because it makes my brain work a little harder, removes some cobwebs. Nice to hear from you, Ray Krause Plugging along on the SkyScout...no hurry! Sent from my iPad > On Aug 24, 2017, at 9:02 PM, taildrags wrote: > > > There is indeed a lot of food for thought in that article. And since I can't stand to read things like this without playing with numbers, I decided to run some numbers for the Air Camper through the formulae that are presented in the article. > > First, there is the theoretical "design cruising speed" Vc, which, for aircraft with wing loadings of less than 20 pounds per square foot, is stated to be 33 times the square root of the wing loading. The "Improved" Air Camper plans show a span of 29 ft and a chord of 5 ft, which gives 145 sq.ft., and a max gross weight of 1,080 lbs (varies, depending on where you're looking). Resulting wing loading is 7.45 lb/sq.ft., so 33 times the square root of that is 90 KIAS. As the author observes, many airplanes can't actually cruise at this design cruising speed and that's very likely the case for most Air Campers since that translates to almost 104 MPH indicated. But let's continue. > > The article says that Vc provides the basis for determining the design dive speed Vd, which is 1.4 times Vc or 126 KIAS (146 MPH indicated). Furthermore, the never-exceed speed Vne is nine-tenths of Vd or 113 KIAS (131 MPH indicated). The 1932 plans give a maximum speed Vne of 90 MPH (78 kt). It goes on to say that if the airplane can't achieve its design Vd in flight, then the dive speed actually attained in flight test, Vdf, replaces Vd, and Vne is nine-tenths of that. I would be very curious to know if anyone has ever flight-tested their Air Camper to maximum dive speed, or had one anywhere close to 131 MPH indicated. I have not. > > Now for the interesting, if somewhat esoteric, part of the discussion. Vne is an indicated airspeed, but the critical *flutter* speed may be a true airspeed and as a result the margin separating Vne from the critical flutter speed gets smaller as you gain altitude because true airspeed increases as the air density decreases, and air density generally decreases with altitude. So for example, if John Dilatush's turbocharged Subaru-powered Air Camper, operating out of his home airport of Salida Colorado (7,523' MSL) is flown at 2500' AGL, it would be at roughly 10,000 MSL. If it were summertime and the OAT were 95F with a relative humidity of 30%, the density altitude would be 14,620'. If he was flying at Vne of 90 MPH (78 KIAS), his TAS would be 97 kt. The article states that the cumulative margin between Vne and critical flutter speed is 33%, so in this (theoretical) case, that would be 26 kt. In the condition described, this airplane could be flying within 7 kt of its! > critical flutter speed but showing that it had not exceeded the designer's Vne of 90 MPH (78 kt). In the mountains, in the summer, with thermals... could the airplane gain another 7kt on a strong ridge lift or downdraft and hit critical flutter? Does anyone really know how close to actual any of these numbers are? Who developed the formulae and rules of thumb, and how much fluff or slack did they put in the numbers? > > So numbers exercises aren't just for the fast planes. Even for us low and slow flyers who may never see airspeeds in the triple digits, aerodynamic effects are still in play. No, we're not all flying ticking time bombs here, but since Steve raised the issue by posting the link to the article, I thought I would exercise my calculator to see what the numbers might be for this what-if. I like what the author says: "...if I were to ride a wave to 35,000 feet in a 172, I would not be in a hurry to peg the airspeed at redline on the way back down." I think I would, though! Do you know how COLD it is up there??!! > > -------- > Oscar Zuniga > Medford, OR > Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" > A75 power, 72x36 Culver prop > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472162#472162 > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com>
Date: Aug 25, 2017
Subject: Re: VNE
Okay, Oscar! What is your VNE! On Aug 24, 2017 11:04 PM, "taildrags" wrote: > > There is indeed a lot of food for thought in that article. And since I > can't stand to read things like this without playing with numbers, I > decided to run some numbers for the Air Camper through the formulae that > are presented in the article. > > First, there is the theoretical "design cruising speed" Vc, which, for > aircraft with wing loadings of less than 20 pounds per square foot, is > stated to be 33 times the square root of the wing loading. The "Improved" > Air Camper plans show a span of 29 ft and a chord of 5 ft, which gives 145 > sq.ft., and a max gross weight of 1,080 lbs (varies, depending on where > you're looking). Resulting wing loading is 7.45 lb/sq.ft., so 33 times the > square root of that is 90 KIAS. As the author observes, many airplanes > can't actually cruise at this design cruising speed and that's very likely > the case for most Air Campers since that translates to almost 104 MPH > indicated. But let's continue. > > The article says that Vc provides the basis for determining the design > dive speed Vd, which is 1.4 times Vc or 126 KIAS (146 MPH indicated). > Furthermore, the never-exceed speed Vne is nine-tenths of Vd or 113 KIAS > (131 MPH indicated). The 1932 plans give a maximum speed Vne of 90 MPH (78 > kt). It goes on to say that if the airplane can't achieve its design Vd in > flight, then the dive speed actually attained in flight test, Vdf, replaces > Vd, and Vne is nine-tenths of that. I would be very curious to know if > anyone has ever flight-tested their Air Camper to maximum dive speed, or > had one anywhere close to 131 MPH indicated. I have not. > > Now for the interesting, if somewhat esoteric, part of the discussion. > Vne is an indicated airspeed, but the critical *flutter* speed may be a > true airspeed and as a result the margin separating Vne from the critical > flutter speed gets smaller as you gain altitude because true airspeed > increases as the air density decreases, and air density generally decreases > with altitude. So for example, if John Dilatush's turbocharged > Subaru-powered Air Camper, operating out of his home airport of Salida > Colorado (7,523' MSL) is flown at 2500' AGL, it would be at roughly 10,000 > MSL. If it were summertime and the OAT were 95F with a relative humidity > of 30%, the density altitude would be 14,620'. If he was flying at Vne of > 90 MPH (78 KIAS), his TAS would be 97 kt. The article states that the > cumulative margin between Vne and critical flutter speed is 33%, so in this > (theoretical) case, that would be 26 kt. In the condition described, this > airplane could be flying within 7 kt of its! > critical flutter speed but showing that it had not exceeded the > designer's Vne of 90 MPH (78 kt). In the mountains, in the summer, with > thermals... could the airplane gain another 7kt on a strong ridge lift or > downdraft and hit critical flutter? Does anyone really know how close to > actual any of these numbers are? Who developed the formulae and rules of > thumb, and how much fluff or slack did they put in the numbers? > > So numbers exercises aren't just for the fast planes. Even for us low and > slow flyers who may never see airspeeds in the triple digits, aerodynamic > effects are still in play. No, we're not all flying ticking time bombs > here, but since Steve raised the issue by posting the link to the article, > I thought I would exercise my calculator to see what the numbers might be > for this what-if. I like what the author says: "...if I were to ride a > wave to 35,000 feet in a 172, I would not be in a hurry to peg the airspeed > at redline on the way back down." I think I would, though! Do you know how > COLD it is up there??!! > > -------- > Oscar Zuniga > Medford, OR > Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" > A75 power, 72x36 Culver prop > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472162#472162 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: VNE
From: "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Aug 27, 2017
Steve; see pic of my airspeed indicator, below. Bear in mind that I did not build the airplane. -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power, 72x36 Culver prop Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472250#472250 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/asismall_123.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com>
Date: Aug 27, 2017
Subject: Re: VNE
So did you pick 95 based on precise science and engineering, or is 95 fast enough? On Aug 27, 2017 3:55 PM, "taildrags" wrote: > > Steve; see pic of my airspeed indicator, below. Bear in mind that I did > not build the airplane. > > -------- > Oscar Zuniga > Medford, OR > Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" > A75 power, 72x36 Culver prop > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472250#472250 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/asismall_123.jpg > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Sky Scout Plans
From: "DonkDoug" <douglas.wright(at)okstate.edu>
Date: Aug 28, 2017
I did not get many responses to this on the Pietenpol Facebook page so I thought I should try here. In looking at the Sky Scout plans from the 1933 Flying and Glider Manual I noticed that the dimensions for the individual members of the fuselage, when added, come to 147 3/4". This figure does not agree with the given overall dimension of 153 3/4" or 12' 9 3/4". This is true in all views of the fuselage with the exception of the two dimensions given at the bottom of the "Bottom View of the Fuselage" which do add up to 153 3/4." I searched the Matronics Pietenpol archive to see if there had been past discussion on this discrepancy but could not find any. I suspect the 153 3/4" overall length dimension is in error but would welcome any insight you all may have. I can't imagine I am the first person to notice this. Or is there no error and I'm just not seeing something I should? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472273#472273 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/screen_shot_2017_08_27_at_121242_pm_238.png ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Glen Schweizer <glenschweizer(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Aug 28, 2017
Subject: Re: Sky Scout Plans
Keep in mind that there are three different fuselage lengths based on engine choices there are subtle differences among all three. Weight and balance will b the critical issue to deal with which is greatly simplified by havin a wing able to move fore and aft Your critical measurements will be at the verticals under cabane struts and seat back keep in mind that Mr pietenpol used to lay out fuselage sides on nails in barn floor > On Aug 28, 2017, at 9:12 AM, DonkDoug wrote: > > > I did not get many responses to this on the Pietenpol Facebook page so I thought I should try here. In looking at the Sky Scout plans from the 1933 Flying and Glider Manual I noticed that the dimensions for the individual members of the fuselage, when added, come to 147 3/4". This figure does not agree with the given overall dimension of 153 3/4" or 12' 9 3/4". This is true in all views of the fuselage with the exception of the two dimensions given at the bottom of the "Bottom View of the Fuselage" which do add up to 153 3/4." I searched the Matronics Pietenpol archive to see if there had been past discussion on this discrepancy but could not find any. I suspect the 153 3/4" overall length dimension is in error but would welcome any insight you all may have. I can't imagine I am the first person to notice this. Or is there no error and I'm just not seeing something I should? > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472273#472273 > > > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/screen_shot_2017_08_27_at_121242_pm_238.png > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Sky Scout Plans
From: "DonkDoug" <douglas.wright(at)okstate.edu>
Date: Aug 28, 2017
Glen, You are correct in that there are several different fuselage designs for the Air Camper (counting the wood and steel Gregas there are actually six) but my question was about the Sky Scout plans. As with the Air Camper, you are also correct that two of the critical dimensions are the spacing for the cabane strut attachment points and the seatback location. Could the center of gravity be adjusted by moving the wing to account for a tail post 6" too short or long? Probably, but I would rather know for sure how long it should be to begin with. Doug Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472281#472281 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "(null) raykrause" <raykrause(at)frontiernet.net>
Subject: Re: Sky Scout Plans
Date: Aug 28, 2017
Doug, I might be able to help you a bit. I'm just finishing up a SkyScout with an A-65. Just now struggling with the W/B. I tried to build it according to the Modern Mechanics Blueprint published in 1932. It calls for the fuselage length of 147.75", mine measure 148" firewall to tailpost. I made the fuselage about 2" deeper at the cockpit to accommodate my 6'4" frame. I used a center wing section as in the AirCamper supplemental plans and built the motor mount according to the supplemental plans. It's almost ready for the final A/W cert inspection and subsequent test flight. The empty weight W/B is at the forward limits of the recommended CG of 15-20" aft of the leading edge (LE). But with a 200 lb pilot and full fuel it is at about 20". With only 3 gals in the header tank, the CG goes to 21". But with a 160 lb pilot, everything stays within the 20" range. The wing is leaning back 6" to attain this CG, the maximum that I can get. I should have made the engine mount 2" longer. I would highly recommend you go at least an additional 2-3". I'm going to go to test flying the way it is because I really don't want to make another motor mount and cowl! I will do this if it does not fly well enough. William Winn says to keep the CG well in front of the rear limit in his series of articles in the Broadnead Newsletter. I agree with him. But..... I will try to include some of my W/B info with this, but if it does not go, I will send it separately. Have fun building, it is one of the great life experiences....only to be outdone by flying your own plane which I have done with my Waiex! Ray Krause SkyScout W/B Datum is the Leading Edge (LE). All measurements are in inches (") from the LE, or pounds (lbs) when plane was level. LE = 0.0" Oil = -10.50" Fuel = 5.00" Landing Gear = 5.00" Tailwheel = 148.00" Cowl = -.5" Firewall = -.5" Pilot = 43.25" Front prop flange = -32.5" Fuselage: 148.50" firewall to tailpost Motor mount: 32.00" firewall to front prop flange. Landing gear to tailwheel weigh points =143.00" Tail wheel (TW) weight 46 lbs Right wheel (RW) weight 296 lbs Left wheel (LW) weight 306 lbs ------------- CG = D +(R X L / W) Where: CG is Center of Gravity in " behind LE. D is the distance from the Datum to the LG weighing point (5.0"). R is the weight of the tailwheel at weighing point (46 lbs). L is the distance from LG weighing point to the tailwheel weighing point (143.00"). W is the total aircraft weight measured at the three wheel weigh points when aircraft is level (648 lbs). +++++++++++++++ EWCG of aircraft W/O cowl CG= 5.0" + (46 X 143.00/648) CG = 5.0 + (6578/648) CG = 5.0 + 10.15 CG = 15.15" aft of LE 25.25% MAC +++++++++++++ EWCG of aircraft WITH Cowl WT. ARM. MOMENT EWCG. 648. 15.15. 9817.2 Cowl. 6. -.50. - 3.0 Totals. 654. 9814.2 EWCG with cowl = 9814.2/654 EWCG with cowl = 15.00" aft of LE = 25.0% MAC ++++++++++++ CG with 200 lb. pilot plus full fuel (10gal) WT. ARM. MOMENT A/C EWCG. 654. 15.00. 9810.0 Pilot. 200. 43.25. 8650.0 Fuel. 60.0 5.0. 300.0 Totals. 914. 18o760.0 CG = 18760.0/914 = 20.53" aft LE = 34.2% MAC ++++++++++++++++++++ CG with 200 lb pilot plus min fuel (3gal) A/C EWCG. 654. 15.00. 9810.0 Pilot. 200. 43.25. 8650.0 Fuel. 18. 5.0. 90.0 Totals. 872. 18550.0 CG = 18550/872 = 21.27" aft LE = 35.5% MAC ++++++++++++++++++ CG with 160 lb pilot and full fuel (10gal) WT. ARM. MOMENT A/C EWCG. 654. 15.00. 9810.0 Pilot. 160. 43.25. 6920.0 Fuel. 60.0. 5.0. 300.0 Totals. 874. 17030.0 CG = 17030/874 = 19.49" aft LE = 32.40% MAC ++++++++++++++++++++++ CG with 160 lb pilot plus min fuel (3gal) WT. ARM. MOMENT A/C EWCG. 654. 15.00. 9810.0 Pilot. 160. 43.25. 6920.0 Fuel. 18. 5.0. 90.0 Totals. 832 16820.0 CG = 16820/832 = 20.2" aft LE = 33.7% MAC Sent from my iPad > On Aug 28, 2017, at 9:12 AM, DonkDoug wrote: > > > I did not get many responses to this on the Pietenpol Facebook page so I thought I should try here. In looking at the Sky Scout plans from the 1933 Flying and Glider Manual I noticed that the dimensions for the individual members of the fuselage, when added, come to 147 3/4". This figure does not agree with the given overall dimension of 153 3/4" or 12' 9 3/4". This is true in all views of the fuselage with the exception of the two dimensions given at the bottom of the "Bottom View of the Fuselage" which do add up to 153 3/4." I searched the Matronics Pietenpol archive to see if there had been past discussion on this discrepancy but could not find any. I suspect the 153 3/4" overall length dimension is in error but would welcome any insight you all may have. I can't imagine I am the first person to notice this. Or is there no error and I'm just not seeing something I should? > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472273#472273 > > > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/screen_shot_2017_08_27_at_121242_pm_238.png > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: VNE
From: "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Aug 28, 2017
Steve; the Vne came with the airplane ;o) No, it wasn't a mathematical operation like "top of the green is at 80, Vne is 1.2 times that... 96 MPH". No math involved. I can tell you that I've had the airplane up to a little over 90 in a dive and it did NOT feel like a happy airplane. I hope never to have to intentionally see 41CC at redline on the ASI. I now confidently cruise it at around 70 with 2350-2400 RPM on the tach, but it still likes to think it has an A65 on the nose so sometimes I throttle it back to 21-2200 and ease the stick back to hold it at 60-65. -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power, 72x36 Culver prop Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472290#472290 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Sky Scout Plans
From: "DonkDoug" <douglas.wright(at)okstate.edu>
Date: Aug 28, 2017
Ray, Thank you for this information. I was not aware of the Modern Mechanics plans for the Sky Scout. Nice to know their plans agree with the 147.75" addition of the individual members dimensions. I had pretty much decided that is what the overall fuselage length should be. I also backed into that number by doing some addition and subtraction off other overall dimensions given in other views of the airplane. The 153.75" must have been a bust on the part of the draftsman back in the day. His drawings are great, very artistic in fact, but there is that error and a guy on the Pietenpol Facebook page said the wing drawings have dimensional errors also. Your project sounds a lot like what I was considering. I remember seeing pics you had posted several months ago - it looked great. I'm interested to see how your weight and balance works out. The last time I looked at this design using an A-65 I had calculated that to use the supplement plans Continental motor mount I was going to have to extend the firewall forward a few inches. This seems to agree with what you are discovering. Do you have a metal prop? That would help a bit. Doug Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472292#472292 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "(null) raykrause" <raykrause(at)frontiernet.net>
Subject: Re: Sky Scout Plans
Date: Aug 29, 2017
Doug, No, I'm using a wood prop that came with the engine which was on a Fly Baby. I'm not even sure of the pitch. I intend to test it with the "fish scale meter" the Piet guys refer to! Have not done that, yet. A metal prop would help, but not much. If you are just starting your build, I would suggest adding 2-3" to the front of the fuselage. Two advantages: it's easy to do over making the motor mount and it gives more room for a header tank. You could also slant the wing back further, if necessary. The next problem will be the landing gear. The plans-built SkyScout gear is not so great. Getting the right springs is a BITCH! I finally had an air/oil shock made that SEEMS to be working OK, now. It also saved 12 lbs. Lots to learn, it will make your brain muscles stronger! Ray Sent from my iPad > On Aug 28, 2017, at 10:04 PM, DonkDoug wrote: > > also. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Sky Scout Plans
From: "DonkDoug" <douglas.wright(at)okstate.edu>
Date: Aug 29, 2017
Ray, I found my W/B notes last night after I responded to your post. I calculated, as you did, that the fuselage should be extended 2" to accommodate an A-65 using the Piet Continental motor mount. You are right, a metal prop does not help much. As William demonstrated with his Piet W/B study and subsequent articles, moving the wing can make a huge difference in CG location. I also re-read some Piet articles last night. One of them stated that the Sky Scout plans in the Flying and Glider Manual were drawn from "shop notes." I imagine that is where some of the errors came from. Doug Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472324#472324 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "(null) raykrause" <raykrause(at)frontiernet.net>
Subject: Re: Sky Scout Plans
Date: Aug 29, 2017
Doug, Sure sounds like you will have an easier time building than I did. I should have flown mine last winter, but things got in the way and slowed me down. Now I'm looking at this fall, pretty soon by my standards! Ray Sent from my iPad > On Aug 29, 2017, at 11:53 AM, DonkDoug wrote: > > > Ray, > > I found my W/B notes last night after I responded to your post. I calculated, as you did, that the fuselage should be extended 2" to accommodate an A-65 using the Piet Continental motor mount. You are right, a metal prop does not help much. As William demonstrated with his Piet W/B study and subsequent articles, moving the wing can make a huge difference in CG location. > > I also re-read some Piet articles last night. One of them stated that the Sky Scout plans in the Flying and Glider Manual were drawn from "shop notes." I imagine that is where some of the errors came from. > > Doug > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472324#472324 > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Sky Scout Plans
From: "DonkDoug" <douglas.wright(at)okstate.edu>
Date: Sep 01, 2017
Ray, You are right about the "brain muscle" thing. But that is what I like the most about fooling around with this stuff. I'm interested to see how your shock/strut works. That is a great idea. Doug Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472417#472417 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Sky Scout Plans
From: "DonkDoug" <douglas.wright(at)okstate.edu>
Date: Sep 01, 2017
Ray, You are right about the "brain muscle" thing. But that is what I like the most about fooling around with this stuff. I'm interested to see how your shock/strut works. That is a great idea. Doug Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472420#472420 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Sky Scout Plans
From: "DonkDoug" <douglas.wright(at)okstate.edu>
Date: Sep 01, 2017
Ray, You are right about the "brain muscle" thing. But that is what I like the most about fooling around with this stuff. I'm interested to see how your shock/strut works. That is a great idea. Doug Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472419#472419 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Sky Scout Plans
From: "DonkDoug" <douglas.wright(at)okstate.edu>
Date: Sep 01, 2017
Ray, You are right about the "brain muscle" thing. But that is what I like the most about fooling around with this stuff. I'm interested to see how your shock/strut works. That is a great idea. Doug Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472418#472418 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Sky Scout Plans
From: "DonkDoug" <douglas.wright(at)okstate.edu>
Date: Sep 01, 2017
Ray, You are right about the "brain muscle" thing. But that is what I like the most about fooling around with this stuff. I'm interested to see how your shock/strut works. That is a great idea. Doug Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472416#472416 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Sky Scout Plans
From: "DonkDoug" <douglas.wright(at)okstate.edu>
Date: Sep 05, 2017
Ray, I was looking at your weight and balance info and I have a question. Did you estimate the pilot moment arm location or did you determine the actual location by weighing the airplane while sitting in it? The reason I ask is because when I looked at the weight and balance sheet Bernard Pietenpol published for his 1966 Air Camper you can calculate that he used a location approximately 16" forward of the point where the pilot seat back and bottom intersect. In that the seats for the Sky Scout and Air Camper have about the same geometry if you were to use the same distance it would put your pilot moment arm at approximately 36" from your datum, the leading edge of the wing. That, of course, would make a significant, favorable difference in your CG location. Doug Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472512#472512 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Sky Scout Plans
From: "DonkDoug" <douglas.wright(at)okstate.edu>
Date: Sep 05, 2017
Ray, After re-reading my last post I need to correct some imprecise wording on my part. From the 1966 Piet W/B info I calculated the pilot moment arm location was about 16" forward of the seat intersection point. Doug Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472517#472517 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "(null) raykrause" <raykrause(at)frontiernet.net>
Subject: Re: Sky Scout Plans
Date: Sep 05, 2017
Doug, For that number, I used a more recent publication of W/B calculations in one of the recent Brodhead newsletters. It seems to have come from the old CAA. It shows three graphs based on seat back angle and pilot weight that gives inches ahead of the seatback/seat bench angle for the CG of the pilot. My seat back is 15 degrees, I'm 200 lbs, it offered 7.5" ahead of the angle for the pilot CG. That's what I used. Still, the best fix would be the fuselage front 2" longer, or a longer motor mount. That would really solve the problem. Remember that when you build. I would go with the longer mount so the motor would be further ahead of the gear but still the same in relation to the LE. I would also shorten the front leg of the gear so the wheel weigh point would be closer to the LE. Bernard, in his last plans for the Covair engined AirCamper, said the gear should be .5" behind the LE. If you use 20-21" wheels as I am, the fuselage "slope" is really steep, but I can't remember the angle (AOA) right now but there is a lot of prop clearance. I will get the angle tomorrow. Smaller, lighter wheels would help my CG. RAY Sent from my iPad > On Sep 5, 2017, at 9:16 AM, DonkDoug wrote: > > > Ray, > > I was looking at your weight and balance info and I have a question. Did you estimate the pilot moment arm location or did you determine the actual location by weighing the airplane while sitting in it? The reason I ask is because when I looked at the weight and balance sheet Bernard Pietenpol published for his 1966 Air Camper you can calculate that he used a location approximately 16" forward of the point where the pilot seat back and bottom intersect. In that the seats for the Sky Scout and Air Camper have about the same geometry if you were to use the same distance it would put your pilot moment arm at approximately 36" from your datum, the leading edge of the wing. That, of course, would make a significant, favorable difference in your CG location. > > Doug > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472512#472512 > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Sky Scout Plans
From: "DonkDoug" <douglas.wright(at)okstate.edu>
Date: Sep 05, 2017
Ray, I think that CAA material you referenced got the pilot CG about right. When you mentioned the Brodhead newsletters I dug out William's article on Piet W/B for Continental powered ships. He had calculated pilot CG location for each of the airplanes he weighed. The location is very close to what you had calculated. The mean of the values was about 7" forward of the seat bottom/seat back intersection. Now I need to figure out how I fouled up the calculation from Mr. Pietenpol's 1966 W/B sheet. I think my assumption as the where there is 8 gallons of fuel stored was incorrect. Doug Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472542#472542 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Philips" <jack(at)bedfordlandings.com>
Subject: Re: Sky Scout Plans
Date: Sep 06, 2017
Doug, The old rule of thumb for calculating Pilot CG was to use the location of the pilot's belt buckle as the CG. That will work out about right with WW's 7" forward of the seat back/bottom intersection, except for the morbidly obese pilots who will always have to wheel land the airplane because their gut would interfere with full aft stick for a 3-point landing. Jack Phillips Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia Pietenpol Air Camper NX899JP "Icarus Plummet", flying RV-10 under construction -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of DonkDoug Sent: Wednesday, September 6, 2017 12:41 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Sky Scout Plans --> Ray, I think that CAA material you referenced got the pilot CG about right. When you mentioned the Brodhead newsletters I dug out William's article on Piet W/B for Continental powered ships. He had calculated pilot CG location for each of the airplanes he weighed. The location is very close to what you had calculated. The mean of the values was about 7" forward of the seat bottom/seat back intersection. Now I need to figure out how I fouled up the calculation from Mr. Pietenpol's 1966 W/B sheet. I think my assumption as the where there is 8 gallons of fuel stored was incorrect. Doug Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472542#472542 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Sky Scout Plans
From: "DonkDoug" <douglas.wright(at)okstate.edu>
Date: Sep 06, 2017
Jack, Yes, I had heard/read the belt buckle/belly button rule before. The data William Wynne collected on Piets pretty much confirms it as being correct. Thanks, Doug Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472563#472563 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Sky Scout Plans
From: "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Sep 07, 2017
Well now I'm curious. When I did the W&B on my airplane (calibrated digital race car scales, first W&B done by me after repairs were completed and second W&B done after I changed the A65 to A75, done by an experienced Tech Counselor who has done dozens of weighings), we weighed the airplane empty and then again with me sitting in the cockpit, so the 49.64" aft of wing leading edge is pretty accurate on mine. My wing is inclined backward 4" and mine is an Air Camper, not a Sky Scout. I'm going to go back to the measurements that I took to see where that places the pilot's CG relative to the bottom corner of the pilot's seat. -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power, 72x36 Culver prop Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472581#472581 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Sky Scout Plans
From: "DonkDoug" <douglas.wright(at)okstate.edu>
Date: Sep 07, 2017
Oscar, By my estimate your pilot CG at 49.64" from the leading edge leaned back 4" would be about 11" forward of the seat back and bottom interesection if your plane is built according to the long fuselage plans. Or about 7.5" if the seat back is at a 15 degree angle as Ray built his Sky Scout. I imagine it is somewhere between those two values. Can you guys tell I retired this summer and have way too much time on my hands? Doug Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472583#472583 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Sky Scout Plans
From: "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Sep 07, 2017
Doug; my seat back is not angled back any amount from stock, or at least I don't think so, but that makes me wonder even more! I shall put the angle finder on the pilot's seat back next time I'm at the hangar! Anyway, 11" forward of the seat back/bottom intersection sounds pretty good considering that in the last 10 years I have progressively lost sight of my "lower anatomy" behind the growing crest of a beer belly (a desk jockey belly, actually), and have gone from a 29" waist to a 33" waist at the belt line but considerably greater above that line. I don't know what has happened there. Now let's see: if I were to calculate the center of mass of the bulge that is above my belt buckle, adjusted for the distance that my belt buckle has disappeared over the horizon, multiplied by 7" and divided by the wing area, multiplied again by the gross weight of the aircraft- the result (rounded to the nearest decimal place) might be the time in hours and minutes that I can fly at normal cruise between potty stops. Adjusted for headwind, of course. -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power, 72x36 Culver prop Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472604#472604 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "(null) raykrause" <raykrause(at)frontiernet.net>
Subject: Re: Sky Scout Plans
Date: Sep 08, 2017
Doug, I measured the angle of the top longeron at the cockpit while the plane is in the landing position, it is 14.5 degrees. That's a little steep in my mind. Three point landing should not be a problem! I'm not sure what other Pietenpol's measure with the large wheels. Prop clearance is 25" in the three point position. I will have to measure the clearance in the level position. Ray Krause Sent from my iPad > On Sep 7, 2017, at 9:05 AM, DonkDoug wrote: > > > Oscar, > > By my estimate your pilot CG at 49.64" from the leading edge leaned back 4" would be about 11" forward of the seat back and bottom interesection if your plane is built according to the long fuselage plans. Or about 7.5" if the seat back is at a 15 degree angle as Ray built his Sky Scout. I imagine it is somewhere between those two values. > > Can you guys tell I retired this summer and have way too much time on my hands? > > Doug > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472583#472583 > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Greg Cardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Sky Scout Plans
Date: Sep 08, 2017
NX18235 sits at about 12.5 degrees in the landing attitude. It seems to 3-point nicely at that angle. I don't know the exact prop clearance but it is at least 9" when wheel landing. Greg Cardinal Minneapolis -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of (null) raykrause Sent: Friday, September 8, 2017 9:25 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Sky Scout Plans --> Doug, I measured the angle of the top longeron at the cockpit while the plane is in the landing position, it is 14.5 degrees. That's a little steep in my mind. Three point landing should not be a problem! I'm not sure what other Pietenpol's measure with the large wheels. Prop clearance is 25" in the three point position. I will have to measure the clearance in the level position. Ray Krause Sent from my iPad > On Sep 7, 2017, at 9:05 AM, DonkDoug wrote: > > --> > > Oscar, > > By my estimate your pilot CG at 49.64" from the leading edge leaned back 4" would be about 11" forward of the seat back and bottom interesection if your plane is built according to the long fuselage plans. Or about 7.5" if the seat back is at a 15 degree angle as Ray built his Sky Scout. I imagine it is somewhere between those two values. > > Can you guys tell I retired this summer and have way too much time on my hands? > > Doug > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472583#472583 > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Philips" <jack(at)bedfordlandings.com>
Subject: Re: Sky Scout Plans
Date: Sep 08, 2017
NX899JP sits at just under 13 degrees. I don't think you would want it any steeper than that Jack Phillips Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Greg Cardinal Sent: Friday, September 8, 2017 4:58 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Sky Scout Plans NX18235 sits at about 12.5 degrees in the landing attitude. It seems to 3-point nicely at that angle. I don't know the exact prop clearance but it is at least 9" when wheel landing. Greg Cardinal Minneapolis -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of (null) raykrause Sent: Friday, September 8, 2017 9:25 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Sky Scout Plans --> Doug, I measured the angle of the top longeron at the cockpit while the plane is in the landing position, it is 14.5 degrees. That's a little steep in my mind. Three point landing should not be a problem! I'm not sure what other Pietenpol's measure with the large wheels. Prop clearance is 25" in the three point position. I will have to measure the clearance in the level position. Ray Krause Sent from my iPad > On Sep 7, 2017, at 9:05 AM, DonkDoug wrote: > > --> > > Oscar, > > By my estimate your pilot CG at 49.64" from the leading edge leaned > back 4" would be about 11" forward of the seat back and bottom interesection if your plane is built according to the long fuselage plans. Or about 7.5" if the seat back is at a 15 degree angle as Ray built his Sky Scout. I imagine it is somewhere between those two values. > > Can you guys tell I retired this summer and have way too much time on > my hands? > > Doug > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472583#472583 > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Sky Scout Plans
From: "DonkDoug" <douglas.wright(at)okstate.edu>
Date: Sep 08, 2017
Oscar, Your formula looks just about right to me. :D Doug Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472684#472684 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Sky Scout Plans
From: "DonkDoug" <douglas.wright(at)okstate.edu>
Date: Sep 08, 2017
Jack, I have a aircraft design textbook (Daniel Raymer, if I remember right) and 13 degrees recommended is what I remember from the section on cockpit ergonomics. I'll look when I get home tomorrow. Doug Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472686#472686 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Philips" <jack(at)bedfordlandings.com>
Subject: Re: Sky Scout Plans
Date: Sep 09, 2017
13 degrees is what a Piper J-3 Cub has. That is one thing that makes a Cub a good trainer. That angle is very close to the critical AOA and when the plane is flown at that angle, it will stall very soon after reaching that angle, meaning you had better have the wheels very close to the ground when you flare it to that angle. If you flare too soon, it will drop in. If you flare too late, it will bounce. As I said, this is what makes the Cub such a good trainer - you've got to do everything just right to get a good 3-point landing. That was why I could rarely get 3 good landings in a row in my Cub, and I find the same is true in my Pietenpol. Problem is worse with a Pietenpol than with a Cub - the Piet has so much drag that the time between flaring it to the ground attitude and the stall is less than a second. I usually carry a little power through the landing to make it easier. Aeronca and Cessna figured out that you can make a plane easier to land by setting the deck angle a little shallower so if you flare slightly high and just hold that attitude the plane will settle easily and 3-point nicely. My old Cessna 140 had an 11 Degree deck angle. The Cessna 170B that I currently own has an 8 degree angle, which I find makes it prone to bouncing (which is why most 170 owners tend to wheel land). The easiest plane to land I have ever flown (whether tail-dragger or tricycle), was my old Van's RV-4. It had a deck angle of about 10 degrees and even if you flared 5' high, if you just held the top of the cowling on the horizon it would settle in for a feather light 3-point landing. Every time. Jack Phillips Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of DonkDoug Sent: Friday, September 8, 2017 9:40 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Sky Scout Plans --> Jack, I have a aircraft design textbook (Daniel Raymer, if I remember right) and 13 degrees recommended is what I remember from the section on cockpit ergonomics. I'll look when I get home tomorrow. Doug Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472686#472686 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jack <jack(at)textors.com>
Date: Sep 09, 2017
Subject: Re: Sky Scout Plans
Good info Jack! Sent from my iPhone > On Sep 9, 2017, at 6:50 AM, Jack Philips wrote: > > > 13 degrees is what a Piper J-3 Cub has. That is one thing that makes a Cub > a good trainer. That angle is very close to the critical AOA and when the > plane is flown at that angle, it will stall very soon after reaching that > angle, meaning you had better have the wheels very close to the ground when > you flare it to that angle. If you flare too soon, it will drop in. If you > flare too late, it will bounce. As I said, this is what makes the Cub such > a good trainer - you've got to do everything just right to get a good > 3-point landing. That was why I could rarely get 3 good landings in a row > in my Cub, and I find the same is true in my Pietenpol. > > Problem is worse with a Pietenpol than with a Cub - the Piet has so much > drag that the time between flaring it to the ground attitude and the stall > is less than a second. I usually carry a little power through the landing > to make it easier. > > Aeronca and Cessna figured out that you can make a plane easier to land by > setting the deck angle a little shallower so if you flare slightly high and > just hold that attitude the plane will settle easily and 3-point nicely. My > old Cessna 140 had an 11 Degree deck angle. The Cessna 170B that I > currently own has an 8 degree angle, which I find makes it prone to bouncing > (which is why most 170 owners tend to wheel land). > > The easiest plane to land I have ever flown (whether tail-dragger or > tricycle), was my old Van's RV-4. It had a deck angle of about 10 degrees > and even if you flared 5' high, if you just held the top of the cowling on > the horizon it would settle in for a feather light 3-point landing. Every > time. > > Jack Phillips > Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of DonkDoug > Sent: Friday, September 8, 2017 9:40 PM > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Sky Scout Plans > > --> > > Jack, > > I have a aircraft design textbook (Daniel Raymer, if I remember right) and > 13 degrees recommended is what I remember from the section on cockpit > ergonomics. I'll look when I get home tomorrow. > > Doug > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472686#472686 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Sky Scout Plans
From: "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Sep 09, 2017
Yes, good info, Jack. I never thought about what it was that made each of those aircraft handle as they do near the stall. I learned to fly in a 40HP J-3 and made my first solo in it, so that airplane created my first impressions of how to land an airplane and what the sensations and visual cues should be right at the ground. The Cub must have taught me pretty well. Flying my Air Camper some 45 years after

May 10, 2017 - September 10, 2017

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