RV-Archive.digest.vol-ab
October 25, 1991 - May 07, 1993
course this is his 5th RV series aircraft to build. I quote..." Historically,
between 500 and 600 sets of RV-3 plans, nearly 2,900 sets of RV-4 plans and
over 1400 of the still relatively new RV-6 and RV-6A plans have been sold to
date. Nearly as many airframe kits have also gone out the factory door, but
since builders buy them piecemeal, the total count is difficult to keep up
with. Obviously thousands are currently under construction, and as of early
May of this year, 152 RV-3s, 312 RV-4s and 39 RV-6s are known by Van's
Aircraft to have been completed and flown. Builder support has always been
highly rated by EAAers, and builder groups are spinging up all over the
country. The Portland, OR builders group has started a computer bulletin
board for the exchange of information, building tips and the like. Technical
questions for Van's Aircraft technical staff may be left on the board and will
be answered with a few days by Dick VanGrunsven or general manager Dick Smith.
The phone number for the 24 hour per day computer bulletin board is
503/293-9218....Unquote. Hope this helps.
cm
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| From: | misg!seahcx!phred!dougm(at)travis.csd.harris.com (RV-6A abuilding) |
| Subject: | I bought a tail kit! |
(I tried to send this over a week ago but never got it back as
I usually do. I'm assuming it didn't make it and am retrying.
Of course, it's possible our mail system is hosed.)
Well, I finally took the second step and bought my RV-6A tailkit.
(The first step was buying the plans which I did quite awhile ago.)
I bought a partially assembled one from an individual who had
already completed an RV-4. He in turn had purchased it from the
original buyer. The completed part consists of both spars of
the HS. I also got some 4x4s and some clecoes. I now have the
jig set up in my garage and am ready to start doing some of my
own work. Before I do, I am having the local EAA chapter technical
advisor over on Friday morning to look it over. I also hope to
get one or two RV builders over. One lives less than a mile
away and just completed and flew his RV-4 this summer. One nice
thing about buying the older kit is that you get bearings rather
than bushings.
Now that I have actually started, I have some questions: (surprise)
1) Did you drill lightening holes in the HS and VS? Specifically,
for the HS, did you drill front and rear ribs? Root and center
ribs? Pictures in my plans show one with the holes and one
without. My center ribs don't have the stiffening rings
pressed into them. Would I need to press some in before
drilling the holes? How big of holes did you drill?
2) With regards to hand seamers: Can I just buy the vise-grips
that has the wide plate jaws or are the special hand seamers
like Avery sells worth the money?
3) What kind of fluting pliers are you using?
4) The bolts that hold the center elevator hinge bracket to the
rear spar are too long with only one washer as shown on the
plans. Should I get shorter bolts or use two (or perhaps
even three) washers to allow the nut to fully tighten?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Wentz <misg!seahcx!Don_Wentz%ccm.hf.intel.com(at)travis.csd.harris.com> |
misg!seahcx!phred!dougm%travis.csd.harris.com
| Subject: | I bought a tail kit! |
Well, some action on the rv-list at last! Congrats on your
purchase.
I did do lightening holes, mine had stiffening rings, just make
the hole to a size 'that looks good', and 'flange' it a bit
(deform the edge).
The flat vise grips should be fine.
I think those bolts also go thru the VS spar and the attach point
on the back of the fuselage. Anyway, you are a ways from that
point in the process!
Enjoy the project, having other builders to get together with is
almost essential, both from an advice and a moral support
standpoint. I have met some great guys thru our local builders
group. I believe there is an active group in the seattle area.
Ask Bob Devore at Van's how to get in touch with them.
I expected to finish the wings this month, but the incredible
weather that lasted until last week changed that. Looks like next
month now, as we are only about 1/2 done with the tanks.
Paul, I think I saw an ad for your RV-4. Good luck, it sounds
like a nice one.
Are the rest of you back from summer yet?
don wentz, 180hp RV-6.
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| From: | amail.amdahl.com!christopher.schulte(at)pacbell.com |
| Subject: | RE: I bought a tail kit! |
Doug:
Good decision on the RV, I'm working on an RV-6 - The left wing. I will
be cutting out the top wing skin this weekend (I'm ussing one piece on .032"
on the top rather then the two pieces VAN supplies in the kit). I remember
the tail kite not to long ago! Let me see if I can help:
>1) Did you drill lightening holes in the HS and VS? Specifically,
> for the HS, did you drill front and rear ribs? Root and center
> ribs? Pictures in my plans show one with the holes and one
> without. My center ribs don't have the stiffening rings
> pressed into them. Would I need to press some in before
> drilling the holes? How big of holes did you drill?
Watch out for misleading pictures in the RV-6 & RV-6A construction
book, I've noticed alot of RV-4 pictures in there!! Like the first
picture in the RV-6 book (I guess the 6A book too) has a real nice
shot of the wing with the leading edge skin in place... Was it me?
or did my wing not look exactly like that.... It's an RV-4 wing!
There are a few tail pictures too that are RV-4's or maybe even
RV-3's! As for the holes. I don't think it is at all possible
to make stiffnerrings now since that is done before the aluminum
is hardend. I cut out everything I could to make it lighter, that
is everywere there was reinforcment rings!
>2) With regards to hand seamers: Can I just buy the vise-grips
> that has the wide plate jaws or are the special hand seamers
> like Avery sells worth the money?
I use the vise-grip kind. There great for bending thick stuff!
But it's a pain to unlock them all the time, The non-locking ones
might be better suited, Having both is alway's the best thing to
do!!! About tool - DON'T BUY ATS!!! Avery is excellent!! I can
recommend looking at there kit deal's if you don't have many tools
yet.. Oh yea, if you plan to Machine Countersink skins, Buy Bob
Avery's Micro Stop M/C Cage, it has a no scratch nylon bottom and
is the only one I've ever seen like that! Tell # (817) 267-9407
>3) What kind of fluting pliers are you using?
Here I definetly prefer the Vise Grip one that Avery sells, not
really fo the locking reason, though it helps in making sure all
the flutes are the same size, But because all other types I've
seen make the fultes to BIG or to WIDE!! The best results are
made with many small flutes not two LARGE ones!
>4) The bolts that hold the center elevator hinge bracket to the
> rear spar are too long with only one washer as shown on the
> plans. Should I get shorter bolts or use two (or perhaps
> even three) washers to allow the nut to fully tighten?
Hmm, then I guess you tail is not too old. The reason the bolt's
are too long is the hinge bracket used to be made out of 1/8" alum-
inum anlge, and you had to form it you self. But no VAN includes
pre-fab'd Steel Brackets that are 1/16" Well he forgot to change
the size of the bolts! I think they were AN3-6A now you need to
use AN3-5A's.. And I believe that change just came out in the last
RVator's ... Bye the way if you are building you BETER get the RV-
ator or you'll miss all the plans revisions!
Well I guess I ratled off enough so I better send this pupie before
the system crashes and I have to type it all over agian!!
Chris.
RV-6 #21390
San Jose CA
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| From: | lackerma(at)rpslmc.edu (lauren ackerman) |
| Subject: | Alignment of elevators and priming |
I have finished cutting and dimpling the right elevator skin and am
about to put together the spar with end ribs, horn and bearings
I have the following questions:
1) Any tips on alignment of the elevator with the horizontal stab?
2) The plate nuts for the elevator look as though they should be
primied, but that would kill the threads. What should I do?
3) There is an enclosed part of the horn...should I just dump
primer in, swirl and drain?
Little things like this cause the project to halt.
Thanks in advance for and and all help.
laurens ackerman
wilmette, ill
rv6 or rv6A
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| From: | lackerma(at)rpslmc.edu (lauren ackerman) |
I am still oscillating over tail dragger versus tricycle.
I was looking at performance of the two. The tail dragger
has about one mph greater cruise ( Tolle) and has a
considerably better STOL performance envelope. The 6A
protects the prop against stikes, is better in landing
in a cross wind and has a better view while taxiing.
The 6A has a problem in the cockpit with the landing
gear mounts hitting the back of your thighs.
Is any of the above significant enough to build one
versus the other...thoughts and opinions would be helpful.
laurens ackerman
wilmette, ill
rv6 or rv6A
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for
for
| From: | WISCHMEYER1(at)AppleLink.Apple.COM (Wischmeyer, Ed) |
lackerma(at)rpslmc.edu (lauren ackerman) asks about -6 vs -6A
The tail dragger has about
>one mph greater cruise (ignore it)
>better STOL performance (doubt you will ever use or need)
>The 6A protects the prop against stikes (ditto)
Nose dragger
>is better in landing in a cross wind (**the** reason for a 6A)
>has a better view while taxiing (very useful. S turns are a pain)
>landing gear mounts hitting the back of your thighs (check this out!)
Given the choice, I would take a nose dragger any day. Much easier to land
and to taxi, and you can safely land a nosedragger at a fatigue level which
would make you keep a taildragger on the ground. Especially on long x-c when
you encounter high crosswinds.
You missed a -6A disadvantage: steering is by brakes only. On the -6, you get
both tailwheel and brakes.
Strong suggestion: build a -6A, but:
* do not use the plastic flex tube near the brakes. The tube can heat up and
come loose, I'm told.
* Try to arrange your brake lines so that you have no loops that can catch
air bubbles (I don't know about the -6, but this is the opposite of what is
called for on the -4). Bleeding the brakes on my -4 is a bitch!!
Ed Wischmeyer
RV-4 ARSA Fighter N629EW
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| From: | ccrdb(at)groper.jcu.edu.au (Ray Belbin) |
| Subject: | I'd like to Subscribe please. |
Hello,
I'd like to subscribe to the RV construction list. I'm
anticipating making an RV6a.
Ray Belbin
ccrdb(at)marlin.jcu.edu.au
groper
Townsville
Queensland
Australia
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| From: | amail.amdahl.com!christopher.schulte(at)pacbell.com |
| Subject: | RE: Alignment of elevators and priming |
Oh it's great to see a little action out here I better do my part...
> 1) Any tips on alignment of the elevator with the horizontal stab?
I'm not sure here but I can tell you how I did it, I clamped the horn
in place on the elevator spare and put the bolt through the bellcrank. Next
I made the doubler plates for the rod ends. In the center of the doubler
plates I drilled a 3/32" countersunk hole, and laid an "UNBUCKED" rivet in
the hole. The rivet is just small enough to slip into the tiny hole that's
in the back of the rod end. Now all you do is line up things to be stright
and mark the placement of the doubler, Install the doubler and enlarge the
3/32" to 1/2 or what ever the size is for the rod end.
> 2) The plate nuts for the elevator look as though they should be
> primied, but that would kill the threads. What should I do?
Kill the threads? I primed mine...
> 3) There is an enclosed part of the horn...should I just dump
> primer in, swirl and drain?
Couldn't hurt, I just sprayed inside there as best I could....
Good Luck!
Chris.
RV-6 #21390
San Jose CA
My Opinion... It just HAS to be a Tail Dragger!!
RV-6 Fever!
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| From: | amail.amdahl.com!christopher.schulte(at)pacbell.com |
| Subject: | RE: Can't Decide |
Gee... I know why, overal it's just such an out standing machine you want
them BOTH... Like Alan Tolle!!
>I am still oscillating over tail dragger versus tricycle.
>I was looking at performance of the two. The tail dragger
>has about one mph greater cruise ( Tolle) and has a
>considerably better STOL performance envelope.
They are very identical in Performance, enough so that it should have abso-
lutly NO effect on your choice. There are planty of other reasons to chose
one over the other. If you live on a grass strip, build the Tail Dragger if
you just vist a grass strip (Like Vans) once a year there's no wait here the
6A is still fine in the dirt! If your worried about STOL then it is obvious
that you are flying out of yous backyard and I would first consider extending
you drive way 25 - 30 Feet before letting tis influence you desicion!
>The RV-6A
>protects the prop against stikes, is better in landing
>in a cross wind and has a better view while taxiing.
Bah Humbug! If your awake when you land the airplane you shouldn't have any
problem with keeping any aircraft propeller out of the DIRT! I'll give you
half a point on the crosswind landings but personally I find a good croswind
more fun then an obsticle
>The 6A has a problem in the cockpit with the landing
>gear mounts hitting the back of your thighs.
I almost agree here!! I've not found the gear mounts to hit my thighs, but
I really do not like them poking through the floor board like they do!! Any
way I think the 6A is a good plane to have if you plan on taxing around at
strange airports, But if you plan on flying anywhere... I'd have to rec
omend the Tail Dragger RV-6!!!
Chris.
RV-6 #21390
San Jose CA
________________________________________________________________________________
I have flown both (including Tony Bingelis' RV6) and since we have
many under construction in the Austin area the subject question is
debated often.
We don't have a definitive answer on the speed, so Alan T's speed
difference is presumed to be about right. As a side note I have a
BD-4 that started life as a nose dragger and after an unfortunate
accident is now a taildragger. In the BD's case I think the speed
difference is perhaps as much as 3-5 mph at cruise.
In terms of ground handling the nosewheel wins, although both were
well behaved if not a little touchy. Ground visibility is better
with the nosewheel.
As far as takeoffs and landings, again I think (based on a modest
experience base of several thousand hours as an instructor and quite
a few flights in various types including homebuilts) the nosewheel
is nicer. The tailwheel version is again touchy on takeoff and
landing rolls. Not so much as to be a problem, but enought to require
the pilot to be on his toes (pun intended). Here my personal bias
comes in. I would build a nosedragger for myself just so I don't
have to worry about takeoff/landing accidents especially should my
wife have to land the plane. (Again, I'm not saying the taildragger
is hard to fly and I have probably 1200-1500 hours in taildraggers
of all types, it's just that inattentions can compound into accidents
very quickly.)
I didn't notice the 6A gear mounts being a problem when I flew the
6A. I do know that they take up some valuable space and are real
pain during construction.
The prop strike problem is real if your going to operating on grass
or unimproved strips.
My opinions, your mileage may vary ...
Deene Ogden.
(RV6 tail hanging on the wall, don't know if I'll build the rest)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle (Sir Matthew G Dralle 510-422-4896) |
> I am still oscillating over tail dragger versus tricycle.
> I was looking at performance of the two. The tail dragger
> has about one mph greater cruise ( Tolle) and has a
> considerably better STOL performance envelope. The 6A
> protects the prop against stikes, is better in landing
> in a cross wind and has a better view while taxiing.
> The 6A has a problem in the cockpit with the landing
> gear mounts hitting the back of your thighs.
>
> Is any of the above significant enough to build one
> versus the other...thoughts and opinions would be helpful.
>
> laurens ackerman
> wilmette, ill
> rv6 or rv6A
Real men *only* fly taildraggers...
Matt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle (Sir Matthew G Dralle 510-422-4896) |
| Subject: | New Member on the rv-list... |
RVers-
Please welcome Ray Belbin from *Australia* to the rv-list mailing list! Ray,
tell the group a little bit about yourself and your plans for your RV project.
Also, if you are interesed in all of the back messages on this list,
they can be send via email to systems with "uncompress" and "uudecode"
(mostly UNIX).
Matt Dralle
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Wentz <Don_Wentz(at)ccm.hf.intel.com> |
dralle(at)matronics.com
Now there are a couple of examples of reasoning: the
well-thought-out, articulate response, and the, well, Popular
response!
I'm doing a -6 for IMPORTANT reasons: better looking, more macho
to tail-drag, impresses the non-educated. To hell with safety and
being relaxed on the runway! Actually, I probably couldn't
truthfully come-up with anything better.
Editorial Comment: During the last year, whenever Van shows-up
for our builder's group fly-in meetings, he is in the -6A, and
although you may not be able to quote him on this, he would build
the -6A over the -6 for himself.
Don Wentz, RV-6 (real man?) :-)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | amail.amdahl.com!christopher.schulte(at)pacbell.com |
>Real men *only* fly taildraggers...
>
>Matt
Ditto
Chris.
RV-6 #21390
San Jose CA
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| From: | Paul Stafford <pauls(at)hpsrrjp.sr.hp.com> |
well, guys- you know that my RV4 is up for sale. I WILL be replacing it
with another taildragger- a C185- perhaps the most "macho" of them all
( well, maybe excepting a DC3...)
my argument is that if you're asleep at the wheel ( or toebrakes) you got no
business anyway!
On the RV6A- to me, it looks too much like a Grumman to spend all that time
building...
( now, off to fly my -4 as much as possible before sale!)
p.s. BTW, you all might want to know Hart tibbetts of Fremont flew his -4 for
the 1st time last weekend- all went well.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ccrdb(at)groper.jcu.edu.au (Ray Belbin) |
| Subject: | To DRAG or NOT to Drag? |
Seriously Guys,
what are the pros and cons of tail-dragger vs
tricycle? I already know that tail-dragging is more MACHO, but what
other more rational reasons?
I have the order forms for a VAN'S Kitplane. I'm trying
to decide btween RV6 and RV6A, a decision that many of you more advanced
contructors may not have had. As far as I can determine, the trikes have
a better Xwind component than the draggers. But the draggers are
better at landing in paddocks and on beaches?
OK OK I really didn't want to say it , but I learned on trikes
and have only a piddly 140hrs. Next weekend I will be going to an
airport that has a Citabria and plan to do some dragger duel.
Can anyone help with the dilemma, as I am Keen to order some
pieces of kit and get cracking....
Thanks..
Ray Belbin (Aussie)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Stafford <pauls(at)hpsrrjp.sr.hp.com> |
ah, I can feel the flames already.
training wheels vs tailwheels:
tailwheel pro ( gee, why did I put this first):
less aerodynamic drag
better at off runway landings from several standpoints:
more prop clearance - big deal with wood props!
easier to make stronger tailwheel than main nosewheel
stability in the rough is better
lighter, cheaper structure ( not another inner tube,main tire etc too)
tailwheel con:
harder to land in any conditions- requires alertness and more skill.
less visibility over nose on ground ( sometimes not really a factor)
junk more easily thrown up on bottom of wing and tail
nosedragger pro
easier to land and taxi, especially in X-wind
more familiar to many pilots- less training required
nosedragger con:
draggier,
heavier,
more expensive, harder on brakes( castering only)
if you aren't planning on many off-field landings ( be realistic now!)
nosedraggers will probably be less likely to cause a problem.
in the RV4, I had trouble with real off field ops in Alaska this last
July, because the fields really were soft, and the tiny tailwheel sunk in
to it's little axle. Taxiing with power and forward stick was the poor answer.
it's possible that insurance costs are less- check into it!
RV4 N84PS 110 hours and climbing ( boy how we climb!)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | amail.amdahl.com!christopher.schulte(at)pacbell.com |
Nose Dragger:
17 Lbs of dead weight & ugly looks
Tail Dragger:
The definition of a real airplane!
Chris.
RV-6 #21390
San Jose CA
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| From: | GRACELY(at)YODA.NIDR.NIH.GOV |
I remember my first few tailwheel lessons, loud inner voices saying, "Why
would anyone want to do this? It's not user friendly, like owning a
rabid pitbull that any momement will turn around and bite you!" 10 hours later
it was fun sometimes, the taylorcraft and citabria had a life of their own
on the ground, just suggest a turn and then stop the beast from turning too far.
100 hours later, the realization that the need to land in a crosswind with
NO lateral drift, and NO crab angle, forced a level of skill not needed (and
therefore rarely acquired?) from a tricycle gear. Allmost 1000 hours later
the rough field and low maintenance factors are very real, the taxiing is still
more fun, and landings are the best part of all. Besides, it looks like a
puppy dog.
I'd say the bottom line is that it both takes and results in more skill, skill
that is acquired in 10-20 hours. A parallel to building versus buying. Its not
that I wouldn't buy a pl;ane or fly a nosewheel, its just that both options are
so mudane and boring.
Rick Gracely, RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Earl Brabandt <earlb(at)SSD.intel.com> |
| Subject: | rv builders list |
Matt,
Don Wentz told me about your builder's list. I would very much
like to be on the list. I'm building an RV-6.
Thanks,
Earl earlb(at)ssd.intel.com (503)629-7642
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | amail.amdahl.com!christopher.schulte(at)pacbell.com |
>Matt,
>
>Don Wentz told me about your builder's list. I would very much
>like to be on the list. I'm building an RV-6.
>Thanks,
>
>Earl earlb(at)ssd.intel.com (503)629-7642
Yes another real airplane builder...
Chris.
RV-6 #21390
San Jose CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bam(at)trout.nosc.mil (Bret A. Marquis) |
| Subject: | You heard it here first.. |
A friend of mine who has built an RV-4 has just acquired
a Soloy Turbine engine.
Has just started to build the first Turbine RV. Will be starting
from scratch.
Stay tuned..
Bret Marquis
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | amail.amdahl.com!christopher.schulte(at)pacbell.com |
| Subject: | You heard it here first.. |
Well, that's the first I've heard... So what model of RV is he going to
build for the Turbine Engine??
RV-3
RV-4
RV-6
RV-6A????
Chris.
RV-6 #21390
San Jose CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bam(at)trout.nosc.mil (Bret A. Marquis) |
| Subject: | Re: You heard it here first.. |
________________________________________________________________________________
with the Lewis retractible gear mod as well.
He'll have to find a place for more fuel. my calculations shows
that with standard tanks, he will have about an hour
of flying time..
Bret
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Stafford <pauls(at)hpsrrjp.sr.hp.com> |
ah-- but what an hour!!!
just imagine the TAS possible at say 25,000 ft from a downrated 420 hp
engine!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | amail.amdahl.com!christopher.schulte(at)pacbell.com |
You should be able to extend the wing tanks up the wing a little further
like on the -6...
That will at least give you your 30 min reserve!!
Chris.
RV-6 #21390
San Jose CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | amail.amdahl.com!christopher.schulte(at)pacbell.com |
| Subject: | Last Sport Aviation |
*** Check out the last sport aviation, there are Two Articles in there
on building tips and both are RV oriented.
FYI
Chris.
RV-6 #21390
San Jose CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | amail.amdahl.com!christopher.schulte(at)pacbell.com |
Well, I guess most of you heard of the light, composite, side by side
seating PULSAR kitplane. Originally this aircraft was only available
as a Nose Dragger. But I guess high intrest in TD's have encourged the
company to create a Taildragger version.
Need I say more?
Chris.
RV-6 #21390
San Jose CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bam(at)trout.nosc.mil (Bret A. Marquis) |
| Subject: | Venture progress report: Nov 91 |
Time for a Questair status report..
The electrical is complete. Pretty cool to sit inside the plane
with the craft on supports and raise and lower the gear using
the gear switch inside.. All limit switches, warning lights and
indicators work fine. We've cycled the gear 50+ times at least. Nary
a glitch.
The avionics panel wiring is complete, the wiring for the plane
is complete sans the wing wiring. The wing itself is complete but
not yet attached. Strobes and fuel system wiring are complete. All
Fire Wall Forward wiring is complete. Canopy fits and works well.
On the todo list:
Mount the wings. Mount the feathers (flaperons) and balance them.
install the fabric baffle system. Test the avionics. Drain the oil
and refill the sump. The engine systems are ready for testing. Just
waiting for the fuel tanks (wings) before we can start the puppy.
Had to order and install a vacuum pump. For some reason I thought for
the price of the Continental engine, they'd include one.
Potential stumbling blocks: The wings of course. Other Venture
builders say its not as easy as the book says. Main gear struts are
not holding pressure. Don't know if we'll have to rebuild them or
send them back to Questair. Nose gear doors. The gear itself works
fine but the nose door operation isn't smooth. Probably going to
be work to get those to fit right. After the wings are on we'll have
to fabricate fairings for the wing root plus the zillion of other
things that invariably come up.. We have the horizontal stabilizer
set for 3 degrees down. We've heard that we might have to increase that
inorder to trim the plane properly in flight. If so means dismounting
and remounting the stabilizer.. Won't know for sure until the wings are
on or possibly during taxi tests.. Paint and upholstery too. But not
before it flies.
I can say that steady forward progess is being made. I can actually
picture it flying soon!
Bret Marquis
________________________________________________________________________________
for
for
| From: | WISCHMEYER1(at)AppleLink.Apple.COM (Wischmeyer, Ed) |
Regarding the demand for the Pulsar taildragger...
P.T. Barnum was right! There's a sucker born every minute!!!
:-) Ed Wischmeyer :-)
Taildragger RV-4 ARSA Fighter N629EW
________________________________________________________________________________
Well Gang, I have begun pro-sealing all the misc tank parts. It's
not going too badly, although a little messy!
One suggestion if you are approaching tank time: Look for the
Stewart-Warner senders yourselves. Van can't get them now and the
Isspro substitutes are sad. the SW ones go by the same part # as
in the optional parts catalog. I found one set after checking at
3 NAPA stores, and one more set at a warehouse.
Other 'new' items:
Jerry Harrold makes a stiffer wing tip to prevent the waviness in
-4 and -6 fiberglass tips. I had Van's delete the std and bought
the new ones direct from Jerry at Harrold's Aircraft Parts
North Plains, OR
503-647-0829
(He MIGHT be interested in helping you upgrade yours somehow)
Jerry is also going to offer some wing-tip nav light mounting
build-ups. I plan to buy a set for the nav/strobe/tail combo.
Keep building,
Don Wentz, 180hp RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle (Sir Matthew G Dralle 510-422-4896) |
| Subject: | New RV-LIST Member... |
Please welcome Earl Brabandt to the rv-list. He is Building an RV-6.
Earl, please tell the list a little bit about yourself and your project.
Matt Dralle
RV-4 #1763
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | moody(at)cyclone.mitre.org (John C. Moody) |
Since i havent heard much traffic here, i thought i'd jump in with
a question since i've just resumed building after a (too long) haitus.
I am about to the point where all firewall pieces are drilled, primed
and ready for riveting. In order to attach firewall to jig,
4 attach holes have to be
drilled. How have you veteran fuselage folks located these holes? Are you
using the precise dimensional measuremets to put these holes exactly
where the eng mt attach pts will be? One local builder put the jig attach
holes at somewhat arbitrary points AWAY from where the later eng mt attach
will be drilled. this approach seems OK but leaves 4 1/4" holes in the
firewall when done. What has been the procedure for finally drilling
the full size eng mt holes? Any clearance problems for the bolt heads
on the steel weldment pieces that accept the longerons? This looks very
close by my calculations even after grinding the edges of the weldments
to shift their location slightly.
BTW i understand there was an interesting article (front page i beleive)
yesterday in the wall st journal about the demise of the certified single
eng airplane business and the rise of homebuilts. I haven't seen it
though.
Also just took delivery of the O-320 bought thru VAN. Hopefully that
financial commitment will get me moving!
Chris Moody RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | moody(at)cyclone.mitre.org (John C. Moody) |
----- Begin Included Message -----
Chris, which O-320 model did you purchase? Also, what accessories
were in, missing? I'm debating the new route for my -4. My budget
for engine was $5500, but that looks to be a "pipe dream" at best.
Looking at more realistic figures of $9K for a rebuilt engine makes
me thing long and hard at $13K for a new one ... I guess you went
through the same thought process. It's just that I won't have much
left for avionics; sigh!
Mike Pilla
RV-4
----- End Included Message -----
Mike, its the D1A model that van offers. it has mags installed, carb in
separate box, and the lightweight starter installed. It also supports the
CS prop which i (at least initially am opting NOT to do. However it is
important to provide a firewall recess for the prop governor and oil
filter at least on the -6. This firewall mod is not mentioned in vans
doc as far as i know. The new engine does have the spin on oil filter.
No alternator, no vac pump (have i missed anything?)
I did agonize a bit on the decision but probably more on the 320 vs 360.
I heard there was some problem getting the prop extension for a fixed
prop for the 360. I just figured the 320 should require less overall
engineering to get it in the plane.
I have also opted for the sliding canopy/fixed windscreen and just
recieved the kit. Anxious to see how that turns out but its a way off.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Wentz <Don_Wentz(at)ccm.hf.intel.com> |
For what it's worth, I was in Van's last week and saw the engine
price list: 320 is 14,xxx and 360 is 16,xxx. Prices have gone up
again :-(
If a non-constant speedable 150hp 320 will do, there seem to be
plenty in TAP and Western Flyer. The 160hp D1A is tougher to
find. Unfortunately, you have to shop carefully and quite a bit
in the rags. I got my 360 from Style's Aviation. You might give
Bill Anderson a call and see what he has available: 914-677-8185.
Of course, if you can swing it, you can't go wrong with a new
engine.
Don Wentz
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle (Sir Matthew G Dralle 510-422-4896) |
Chris,
Wow! No shit on the engine purchase!?!? I'm jealous!!!! Color me green.
So what's up these days, Chris? I was wondering about you the other day.
My fuse is out of the jig now and am working on the cockpit rails and
roll bar reinforcment. Wow, its starting to look like a REAL airplane now.
Have you seen the uEncoder and Engine monitor instruments advertised in the
back of Sport Av? Well, I bit my tongue and ordered them both. With the
combination, all I need extra for VFR is a compass and fuel gages. The compass
is no big deal and you've seen the digital fuel gages I designed. This
should be a pretty cool panel. With the space savings, I should have no
problems getting that CD player to fit in the dash as well!
How's the wife? Say "hi" for me. Any plans to make it out this way in the
future??
Later...
Matt Dralle
PS - There's a guy out at Livermore Airport that's got a fully operational
MIG 15! Now that's a pretty cool thing to see on short final...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle (Sir Matthew G Dralle 510-422-4896) |
rv-list(at)matronics.com
> For what it's worth, I was in Van's last week and saw the engine
> price list: 320 is 14,xxx and 360 is 16,xxx. Prices have gone up
> again :-(
>
> If a non-constant speedable 150hp 320 will do, there seem to be
> plenty in TAP and Western Flyer. The 160hp D1A is tougher to
> find. Unfortunately, you have to shop carefully and quite a bit
> in the rags. I got my 360 from Style's Aviation. You might give
> Bill Anderson a call and see what he has available: 914-677-8185.
>
> Of course, if you can swing it, you can't go wrong with a new
> engine.
> Don Wentz
>
What did you pay for your engine??
Matt Dralle
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle (Sir Matthew G Dralle 510-422-4896) |
| Subject: | Deene Ogden Mail Address... |
Does anyone on the rv-list know what Deene Ogden's phone number is? His
email address no longer works and I hate to just delete him from the list.
Thanks
Matt Dralle
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Wentz <Don_Wentz(at)ccm.hf.intel.com> |
| Subject: | Re: re: Re: engine |
Matt, my engine has 11 hours on a cermichrome major, 2500hrs
total. It cost me $9000.00 delivered.
It had a rear-mount carb so I sold the carb, alt, and starter for
$1000. I plan to put automotive starter and alt on, and either an
Ellison throttle body or a multi-port injection system that looks
real promising. I expect injection to cost around $1800.
Sounds like you're progressing well...
don w.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | amail.amdahl.com!christopher.schulte(at)pacbell.com |
| Subject: | Heating the work place |
Fellow Buiders:
I've got a question I need answered:
For the past month I've been sort of avoiding my garage because it is so
cold!! But that doesn't help me finish my airplane in the planed 6 Months!
Anyway, I don't have any source of heat in my garage since it is detached
from my house. Nor do I have GAS in the garage... I need to heat by Elec
or by Kerosen.
I was thinking about Kerosen, but I heard that K heaters may cause corotion
in tools and other metals... Like airplanes?
What's the best way to heat my Garage?
Has anyone else ever heard of K heaters causing corrotion???
Chris.
RV-6 #21390
San Jose CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | lackerma(at)rpslmc.edu (lauren ackerman) |
| Subject: | Re: Heating the work place |
Chris,
From my Chicago point of view: does it ever get that cold in
San Jose, CA that you need to heat ?!? A 55 degree garage is a luxury
here in the winter...and especially mine which leaks so badly.
The reason kerosen heaters cause corrosion is that water is
the waste product of burning and the humidity goes up in the garage
thus the increase in corrosion. However, if you keep the heat
fairly stable then the differential will not exist between the heated
air and colder metal which causes water condensation on the metal.
I have no choice as my garage is very separate from
my house...but then my garage "breathes" quite well.
Laurens Ackerman
RV-6A
Wilmette, Ill (Chicago Area)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Stafford <pauls(at)hpsrrjp.sr.hp.com> |
corrosion? we don't need no stinkin' corrosion. We got Alcad. unless you
are workoing with the roll bar or engine mount, no huhu. Are you priming
the sheet aluminum too? Idid, and sleep better at night.
Paul Stafford
RV4 N84PS, 150 hours since 3/91 and climbing...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Randy Stockberger <randys(at)hpcvdz.cv.hp.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Heating the work place |
Chris:
How about propane? On the Boy Scout camp trip last weekend one of the
dads had a little catalytic heater attachment that hooked onto the top
of one of those five gallon propane tanks. He said he used it to heat
his work shop. It apparently wouldn't heat the shop to 70, but would
warm it up by ten or fifteen degrees, enough to take the edge off. It
looked like it wouldn't be very expensive, perhaps $20, and had three
heat settings. No thermostat. He said the best feature is that it
doesn't stink like a kerosene heater.
ALWAYS provide ventilation when running any heater that uses oxygen!
Luck
Randy Stockberger
randys(at)cv.hp.com
________________________________________________________________________________
PacBell.COM!(at)juts.ccc.amdahl.com.att!csc1!pilla@amdahl.uts.amdahl.com
| Subject: | Re: Heating the work place |
Funny, I'm looking into heaters, too. A friend recommended the portable
liquid propane type of powered heater; quite efficient. However, I
cannot see any "thermostat" mechanism. Just started looking this
past weekend. Will post if I find/decide/buy/...
Mike PIlla
RV-4
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | amail.amdahl.com!christopher.schulte(at)pacbell.com |
| Subject: | Re: Heating the work place |
>
>Chris:
>
>How about propane? On the Boy Scout camp trip last weekend one of the
>dads had a little catalytic heater attachment that hooked onto the top
>of one of those five gallon propane tanks. He said he used it to heat
>his work shop. It apparently wouldn't heat the shop to 70, but would
>warm it up by ten or fifteen degrees, enough to take the edge off. It
>looked like it wouldn't be very expensive, perhaps $20, and had three
>heat settings. No thermostat. He said the best feature is that it
>doesn't stink like a kerosene heater.
>
>Randy Stockberger
>randys(at)cv.hp.com
Randy,
That sounds like something I could use, I've been looking around
at all sorts of heaters for the past few weeks and have not found anything
like that yet... any insight on were I could get / or at least see on of
theses super heaters!!???
Chris.
RV-6 #21390
San Jose CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Randy Stockberger <randys(at)hpcvdz.cv.hp.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Heating the work place |
Chris:
Don't know for sure, I think I would look in the camping section of
K-Mart, etc. first. Let your fingers do the walking.
Randy Stockberger
randys(at)cv.hp.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | GRACELY(at)YODA.NIDR.NIH.GOV |
I am also staring at that detached garage and wondering if the fuse will be a
"fair weather" project. A painter friend advised electrical heat: cheap up
front cost, higher cost of use not a seroius factor for part-time use, and
most importantly to him, clean and minimal fire hazard. He didn't like what
combustion by-products might do to either the paint or to him.
Rick G. RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ccrdb(at)marlin.jcu.edu.au (Ray Belbin) |
ccarg(at)marlin.jcu.edu.au (Alan R Gunders)
......... Townsville NORTH QUEENSLAND (19o South) .....
TEMPERATURE .... 91 degrees and 3 tropical island airstrips 2 hours
away.... MERRY CHRISTMAS ......
Ray Belbin
(No heaters at our K-Mart!)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | amail.amdahl.com!christopher.schulte(at)pacbell.com |
| Subject: | Looking for heat! |
I've found that Colman makes a series of heaters, actually there for
camping, that are the infer red, propane gas burners. I've located a fair-
ly large one; 30,000 BTU at Mel Cotton's. Mel Cotton's is a sporting good
store in San Jose. Coleman makes a few differnt sizes for the Focus 5, a
5,000 BTU unit to the Focu 30. Cost is around $100 for the large unit.
But you still need a tank.
Does anyone know how efficent one of these heaters would be? The
sales people could not tell me more then what I could read off the box.
Chris.
RV-6 #21390
San Jose CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle (Sir Matthew G Dralle 510-422-4896) |
> I am also staring at that detached garage and wondering if the fuse will be a
> "fair weather" project. A painter friend advised electrical heat: cheap up
> front cost, higher cost of use not a seroius factor for part-time use, and
> most importantly to him, clean and minimal fire hazard. He didn't like what
> combustion by-products might do to either the paint or to him.
>
> Rick G. RV-6
>
I have a combination AC/heater heatpump unit for the garage from Sears. Seems
like its about a 20,000 btu cool and 15,000btu heat. It works REALLY well, adn
hasn't been expensive to run *at all*. The upfront cost was kind of
high (~$850) but the comfort has been well worth it. It looks like a standard
wall type AC unit - maybe just a little bigger.
Matt Dralle
RV-4
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bang!bam(at)nosc.mil (Bret A. Marquis) |
I still feel somewhat of an interloper on the RV list posting about my
Venture progress. Since it is an all metal craft and has far more in
common with an RV than any plastic plane I feel somewhat ok about it..
My left wing went on today. I completed the wing about a month ago.
Sealed it with about twice as much tank sealant as the factory shipped
so I ordered a extra quart or 2 from Van's. A month later I'm still
trying to get it off my skin!
Pressure tested the two tanks and was very surprised to find only two
leaks. One a rivet glued in place but not set and the other an
unsealed rivet in the spar. Questair sealed the spar so we didn't look
close enough at their job. Had to an additional inspection plate in
order to buck both rivets. Afterwards, the tank seems to be solid.
Maybe it was by design (I would like to think so) but I was also quite
amazed that the Whelen strobe power supply fits in the end of the wing
with no room to spare. Since the original factory prototype didn't
have tip strobes, I tend to think we were lucky! Really hated the idea
of having to run 300v lines through the fuel tanks from the wing root
if they didn't fit out there.
Since the original plans called for one single 26 gallon tank in each
wing in front of the spar and I elected to wet the area behind the spar
as well, I needed a way of guaging the addtional fuel.
This turned out to be more interesting than I had first thought. The
tank is not tall and a standard float near the root would not show any
change at all until the fuel was 3/4 gone. Then it would change
quickly. The fancier wing lenth capacitance probes would work, but
they were both expensive and would require opening the wing again. I
briefly considered not guaging the back tanks at all since they need to
be used first in any case to keep the plane in balance, but I was
convinced that allowing the engine to run dry, cough and sputter as an
indication of when to change tanks is hard on the fuel pump and
injectors). So pulling out the handy dandy Aircraft Spruce catalog,
found a fuel tank low fuel light/float kit. These mount at the wing
root and are set so that when I'm down to 2-6 gallons in the tank, an
indicator lights up on the panel. Perfect. The main tank is gauged,
the aux tank has a light and the craft has a Shadin computer to keep
track of overall fuel used. That should be enough.
So with the tanks sealed and wiring complete, the actual mounting of
the wing went very smoothly. Everything seems well within spec and I
can only hope that the other one goes as smoothly next week.
Bret Marquis
bam(at)Berkeley.edu
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | amail.amdahl.com!christopher.schulte(at)pacbell.com |
Bret:
Don't be silly, There are some of us how are very interested in your
Venture, and especially due to the fact it's a real airplane (NOT PLASTIC!!)
26 Gallons aside sure sounds alot better then the RV's 19 gallons per side.
Why the additional tanks? Is it a builder option or something you came up
with? I wonder about adding aditional fuel reserves to the RV, but I'm real
green when it come to figuring out how it will effect the aircraft flight
characteristics. How much additonal fuel can you hold? And if you fill the
aux tanks can you still take a passenger?
Chris.
RV-6 #21390
San Jose CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle (Sir Matthew G Dralle 510-422-4896) |
Bret,
I really like your report on your Venture. Keep them coming!
Matt Dralle
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle (Sir Matthew G Dralle 510-422-4896) |
>
> Matt, I've been thinking of that unit, too. How cold does it get where
> you live? How hot? I'm wondering what the efficiency would be in NJ
> where it occasionally gets down to 5-6o and up to 98o or so. I've
> insulated my garage (two car) and put insulation over the doors,
> weather stripping, ... Just not sure if a heat pump could handle it.
> It sure would be nice to have A/C during the hot/humid summer months.
>
> Thanks.
> Mike Pilla
> RV-4
>
It has worked quite nicely in 105 deg summer heat and 29 deg winter temps. The
heater part uses a heatpump action for temps of 40 and above and electric
coils for under 40 deg. The system works well. In your case, I would
recommend getting at least the next size larger than your cubic foot
requirments call for - maybe 2 sizes. I run mine on low all the time and the
quietness is well worth it. High will heat up or cool down the 3 car garage
in 10-15 minutes from the extremes mentioned above. My garage is
27'w X 20'd X 10'h (5400 cubic feet) and the 20,000btu cool unit seems to work
very nicely. Don't believe the cubic feet -> btu charts in the catalog. Go at
least 1 or 2 sizes larger. They won't cost that much more and you'll be
happy you did. Once my garage is the temp I want (typically 70), the
AC/Heater only runs about 10-15/hour to keep it there. Granted, that
is partially to do with the insulating and weather stripping job, but whether
the AC/heater can keep up is important too.
I would also recommend put some foam backed carpet down. I glued carpet to
the floor of my garage and that helps keep the room tempet. Working on
bare concrete really sucks.
Well, sorry for going on and on about this. Hope it helps.
Matt Dralle
I would s
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bang!bam(at)nosc.mil (Bret A. Marquis) |
Chris queried me about my designs for additional fuel I'm incorporating
into the Venture. I thought I'd share my thoughts with the gang.
The plane is designed to carry 53 gallons useable. 26 gallons/side.
Most of my flights in the Mooney have been from/to San Diego and Portland/Seattle
areas. MYF-PDX is 5 hours (ish) in the mooney at 12 gallons/hr. I can usually
adjust that down with futzing and careful
leaning to 10.5 gph and slightly less than max cruise. What with takeoff
power settings and weather I arrive with a little more than VFR reserves.
With any hint of winds or weather, I usually land in Grants Pass, OR.
for more fuel (this seems to be most of the time). The Mooney will
hold 72 gallons of fuel.
The 53 gallons of fuel in the venture should allow me over 3 hours
of flying with reserve. At 240 knots, the 'nav' program someone posted
to the net a few years back, shows a rough plan of the flight at about
3:30 minutes flying time for the 800 mile flight and 45ish gallons used.
Not considering climb speeds and burn, reserves, maneuvering, weather
and reality. In my book, no way to make a worry free non stop flight.
So more fuel seemed a good idea. Some Venture builders have elected
to add fuel to a tank behind the pilot. I prefer having fuel outside
my cabin.. Just in case.
The factory said it should work, gave us some pointers on where not
to put fuel and grumbled a bit. They did supply me with a 5 way fuel
valve and 2 extra fuel caps/sleeves for the new tanks.. Cautioned us
on balance and gave us the go ahead. Most folks have elected to go
with standard tanks and I understand those that have opted for more
fuel have merely enlarged the mains and not sealed the tanks separately.
In retrospect that would have been easier and less complicated. I
believe that I've given myself an additional 30 gallon capacity. Just
a guess but I'm ASSuming I'll have room for 85 useable. Since the plane
is nose heavy to start, adding fuel behind the spar should not be a problem.
So I've rambled quite a bit, but the idea of the additional fuel would
give me IFR reserves on a non stop flight from San Diego to Vancouver
Canada in about 4.5 hours, single pilot. The additional fuel probably
could not be used with 2 persons on board. I won't know until the plane
is weighed and balanced, but I believe that full fuel, 2 people and
small bags will about max out the craft. Thats being conservative until
the real numbers are known..
Bret Marquis
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bang!bam(at)nosc.mil (Bret A. Marquis) |
Oops. I rambled on so much as to why, I forgot the how.
The Venture is a retract. The designer liked the low
profile wing, did not elect to store the gear in the wing when they
not needed. Instead, the gear folds back into the fusilage between
the pilot and passenger.
SOoo, no gear in the wings. Just fuel and lighting and stiffeners, ribs
and the spar out there. The tanks are intregral. Not built separately
and installed after they're tested. A wet wing. The main tanks are
the sealed ribs starting one bay in from the wing tips and extending to
the rib closet to the root. No fuel actually in the root or at the
tips. I elected to add conduit from the wing root to the tip to run
all electrical wiring. Although the channel they provide would probably
work fine, I could see no easy way of replacing/repairing wires
once they were sealed in. The conduit we found, fits inside their
channel and further distances the electrical equipment from the fuel.
I understand that one Venture builder elected to run all his wiring
outside the wing along the flaperon hinge area. I guess there's room
but it doesn't seem clean. Personally I beleive that he followed the
construction manual too closely and sealed the wing before running his
electrical lines. The manual has more than one spot that calls out for
completing steps 1-4 then says something about step 2a or somesuch not
mentioned earlier.. That's what happens when the manual is written and the
only flying plane is the factory demo. No feedback from the builders
yet.
The added fuel was roughly the same area only behind the main spar and
only extending out 3/4 the way to the tip.
Closing a wet wing requires riveting (and bucking) through wet sealant.
Too much sealant woudn't allow the surfaces to mate cleanly and would
bulge, too little and it would leak.
We sloshed the completed wing after we were done. fixing a leak after
the wing is mounted is harder. Murphy`s Rules apply of course. After
we had closed the wing, I noticed that we had not installed the fuel
filler ring. This piece is riveted to the inside of the filler hole
and is the mating ring for the fuel cap. After a scream of agony, we
decided not to reopen the wing or cut another inspection plate into
the wing or cut the ring itself. We cut two tiny slices at the filler
hole, just enough so we could slide the ring though. Now sealed and
riveted, they're hardly noticable and will probably vanish entirely when
painted but it was still painful..
Bret Marquis
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bang!bam(at)nosc.mil (Bret A. Marquis) |
According to my Oregon contacts, 118 RV's made first flights
this year.
Van's Aircraft, shipping as fast as they can are 6 month backlogged
on wing kits.
At this rate OSH will have more RV's than Vari-Eze's show up!
Bret Marquis
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | amail.amdahl.com!christopher.schulte(at)pacbell.com |
Well... Not that I have a hole lot of tips for the wings, But I do got
one that seemed to work real good. I know when you go to line up the tank
skin on the spare, everyone a dozen little shims just the perfect size?
Actually you do. I think the plans call to place an 11/16" shim be-
tween the spare and the tank baffle. Actually you need like a dozen of them
one or two at each rib, just to make sure nothing's saging. Anyway to
make it simple. I just used Hex Bolts that had a 11/16" head!! It worked
very well, but I did need a little more hieght then that so I wraped one rev-
olution of electrice tape around each bolt.
Try it!
Chris.
RV-6 #21390
San Jose CA
P.S. I might get to put in my first wing rivet this weekend if the
weather is good enough to get some primer sprayed!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Wentz <Don_Wentz(at)ccm.hf.intel.com> |
Bret,
I really like your report on your Venture. Keep them coming!
Matt Dralle
I stopped-in to see it today. It looks even shorter with wings! Very
impressive panel, lots of goodies. The engine compartment looks,
well, expensive! I love that prop tho.
Bret, how are the control surfaces mated to the wings? Piano
hinge? I took a quick look and didn't see any mounting points.
Are you getting excited yet? :-)
don wentz
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | amail.amdahl.com!christopher.schulte(at)pacbell.com |
Just off the phone with the folks out at the factory, I was going to
put my order in for a fuselage kit before Feb 1st, Since I thought that
was the date when they raised the prices for the next year. Guess I miss-
ed it since the new prices went into effect yesterday!
Somehow I thought we had more insight into this last year, Well I guess
I'm in no really hurry to get the fuselage kit now, guess I'll wait till the
wings are finished!
Chris.
RV-6 #21390
San Jose CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | amail.amdahl.com!christopher.schulte(at)pacbell.com |
| Subject: | Modest price increase! |
Modest is right!! I talked to Van's today again to see just how much
more I need now for my Fuselage Kit.... The price only went up $60.00!!
that's not even 2.5% increase!!
Chris.
RV-6 #21390
San Jose CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | amail.amdahl.com!christopher.schulte(at)pacbell.com |
As mentioned in an earlier letter to the RV-list, Van has replaced the
Stewart Warner fuel sending units with those JUNKY Issopro(sp?) ones. I
know first hand since I ordered them about 3 months back.
I decided to do the job right and find the F-385-B/C units made by SW.
After visting nearly every auto-parts store around San Jose I got serveral
stories from SW being Chapter 11 (on place said) to they've been in the pro-
cess of relocating all there manufacturing to Mexico (most places). At any
rate everyone has back orders for nearly all Stewart Warren goods.
I started to hit the yellow pages, and was able to locate the B unit.
but know one in town new of a place that had a C unit collecting dust on a
shelf. I got several numbers for Auto-Parts Distributers... and Wa-La!!
United Speedometer in Riverside CA. Is a large distributer of Stewart
Warren and just happend o have a few of these on there shevles... I don't
know how many so you'll need to give them a ring.... 1-800-877-4798. They
take M/C or Visa orders and ship UPS. If you mention your a company, ei:
Bay Area RVators, then you won't have to pay list price for the units. I
think I paid $17.00 for the C, plus shipping on top of that.
Chris.
RV-6 #21390
San Jose CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bang!bam(at)nosc.mil (Bret A. Marquis) |
About 1:30 this afternoon, with 5 gallons in one wing, we started
the Venture!
The factory new engine has been sitting for a bit over a year and I
was rather surprised that it started so easily. We turned
over the prop manually a couple of times, a shot of the primer, turned
it over twice and it caught. Ran it for three minutes, watched the GEM
light up, the oil pressure came up to 70, didn't let it run long
enough to warm up much and shut it down. The manual says not to cycle
the prop until after its first flight so we didn't.
What worked:
The engine, starter, alternator, GEM, mags, mag switches, oil temp
and pressure gauges, engine and aux fuel pumps, wheel brakes.
What didn't: Volt/amp guage died. Front fuel tank has a leak.. Something
we missed but since the leak occurs only when there's more than 5
gallons in the tank, it must be near the wing root. Thats good news
since there are several close inspection ports nearby. Shadin didn't
show a fuel flow indication.
Whats next: fix the leak(s). Do a factory mod to the steering system,
open up the fuel filter for inspection, fill the other tanks and inspect
for more leaks. trouble shoot the Shadin and v/ammeter gauge. Install
fabric engine baffling then start it again.
Stay tuned!
Bret Marquis
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | amail.amdahl.com!christopher.schulte(at)pacbell.com |
Upcoming event, I know... Just I can't seem to find any info about
this years Meced EAA Flyin. Can anyone out there send me some information
or e telephone number where I can all the info for this years flyin.
I don't even know the date?
Please
Chris.
RV-6 #21390
San Jose CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | amail.amdahl.com!christopher.schulte(at)pacbell.com |
Ok... I've found the answer, Thanks to all those who helped in my decision
making! - Electric Heat.
After shoping around the best deal I could get on powerful 220V heater was
a little more then $200.00 - That puts out about 10-15,000 BTU's.
Walking though my house one day I thought maybe I should put my Dryer in the
garage for heat!! That's it!! A dryer.....
Anyway, I put an ad up on our corperate E-Mail BB. "Looking for an OLD Dryer
Working/Broken Ect.." About 2 day's latter I got a few responces $50.00 &
$40.00 & You haul it away and it's yours!! Well guess which one I took!!
I spent about that evening ripping the thing apart and stealing the parts I
needed out.... A motor, Fan, And the 220V Heating coil, Well I also picked
up the temp switch, off/low/high. The next day I spent about 4hrs, Figur-
ing a way to link the pieces together, and cutting the metal down to size.
BTW.. I heat metal splinters.. Ouch!
Off to the store.. Bought some 12 GA. Extension cord type wire, 220V plug
some screen, for the input air. An on/off Toggle switch, and a couple
wire nuts. Just under $20.00
I spent a while making a sturdy wood frame to mount everything to, Then
wired it all up, After checking everything out with an Ohm meter I pluged
it in and hit the switch!! WOW!! must be a good 15,000 BTU output!!
Can't beat the price about $20.00 and 10-15 hrs Work. Now I've got a warm
garage!!! Maybe you can do the same!! Oh.. the finished heater is about
1.5' x 2' & 1.5' tall And pretty quite I think it was a real good idea.
Chris.
RV-6 #21390
San Jose CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | GRACELY(at)YODA.NIDR.NIH.GOV |
Chris, as one who dared to speak for electric heat during the loud chorus
of combustion heat, one word comes to mind to describe your invention,
BRILLIANT!
Quick, send it in to SPORT AVIATION for a free snap-on tool kit.
Rick RV-6.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle (Sir Matthew G Dralle 510-422-4896) |
>
> Chris, as one who dared to speak for electric heat during the loud chorus
> of combustion heat, one word comes to mind to describe your invention,
>
> BRILLIANT!
>
> Quick, send it in to SPORT AVIATION for a free snap-on tool kit.
>
> Rick RV-6.
>
>
Or better yet, the Fire Marshal; I bet he'd be *very* interested...
Just kidding. Very ingenious, indeed.
Matt Dralle
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle (Sir Matthew G Dralle 510-422-4896) |
| Subject: | Who's On RV-LIST?? |
Just in case you might have been wondering who's on the RV mailing list
here is the latest list of names and email addresses...
Matt Dralle
-----
ccrdb(at)groper.jcu.edu.au (RV-6A Ray Belbin)
chris(at)cis.ohio-state.edu (RV-6A Chris Krieg)
jdh(at)littlei.intel.com (RV-6 Jim Harriger)
rodney(at)math.ucla.edu (RV-6 Rodney Sinclair)
steveha%shogun.pen.tek.com(at)relay.cs.net (RV-4 Steve Harris)
wischmeyer1(at)applelink.apple.com (RV-4 Ed Wischmeyer)
dralle(at)matronics.com (RV-4 Matt Dralle)
martin(at)iastate.edu (RV-6A Martin R. Calsyn)
quejoh@auto-trol.com (RV-6 Quent Johnson)
pauls(at)hpnmdla.HP.COM (RV-4 Paul Stafford)
lll-crg.llnl.gov!mwvm.mitre.org!m15235 (RV-6 Chris Moody)
deene(at)ace.austin.ibm.com (RV-6 Deene Ogden)
lackerma(at)rpslmc.edu (RV-6 Laurens V.Ackerman)
uunet!hcx1!misg!seahcx!phred!dougm@lll-winken.llnl.gov (RV-6A Doug Medema)
wentzdon(at)ccm.hf.intel.com (RV-6 Don Wentz)
gracely(at)yoda.nidr.nih.gov (RV-6 Rick Gracely)
perrin(at)crc.skl.dnd.ca (RV-? John Perrin)
kak(at)sequent.com (RV-6 Keith A. Kelleman)
bam(at)trout.nosc.mil (Venture Bret Marquis)
mag%mag386(at)CSE.OGI.EDU (RV-6 Michael Goldsmith)
bataller(at)tdw274.ed.ray.com (RV-6A Gary Bataller)
ces00(at)juts.ccc.amdahl.com (RV-6 Chris Schulte)
pilla(at)speedy.att.com (RV-4 Mike Pilla)
randys(at)cv.hp.com (RV-6A Randy Stockberger)
masys(at)nlm.nih.gov (RV-x Dr. Daniel R. Masys)
earlb(at)ssd.intel.com (RV-6 Earl Brabandt)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | amail.amdahl.com!christopher.schulte(at)pacbell.com |
Bendix King introduced a new radio this past month, The King KX 125. This
radio comes TSO'd and is a NAV/COMM Combination. Instead of LED display like
the KX 155/65's is has LCD display's But the major feature of this radio is
the CDI is an LED display built into the center of the radio, A real panel
space saver!! The OBS is also a digital readout.
Best thing is this radio has an introductory price of about $1500.00!!
That's really cheap for Brand New, or Used even, King Digital.
Chris.
RV-6 #21390
San Jose CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | amail.amdahl.com!christopher.schulte(at)pacbell.com |
| Subject: | Here is a sketch... |
Bendix/King just introduced a new radio!! The KX 125.
+-------------------+---------------------+-------------------+
+-------------------------------------------------------------+
The new radio is still a digital flip flop, with standby and active
frequencies. But the display is all LCD's not LED's, also the best
feature is the CDI is built into the center of the radio. This will
save panel space cuase you do not need a seperate CDI.
The KX 125 is TSO'd and has an itroductory price of around $1,500.00
Thought I'd through in this sketch to help
you visualize...
Chris.
RV-6 #21390
SAn Jose CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle (Sir Matthew G Dralle 510-422-4896) |
>what's with these digital fuel guages? I haven't logged in in about 1.5 months.
>did I miss something??
>
>chris krieg
I designed a electronic fuel guage that works with the SW fuel senders used
in the RVs. It reads in digital as well as an analog LED meter. It's pretty
cool. They havn't actually been used in a plane yet, so no practical-use data
yet. The meter has four trim pots that are used to adjust max analog, min
analog display, and max digital, min digital display. Besides that,
installation is pretty simple. Here's kind of a crud represetation of the
display. The "*"s are actually rectangular LEDS in about a 3/4 of a circle
around the 7-segment digital display. The rectangular LEDS light up in
a bar-graph format, from left to right.
*****
*** ***
** _ _ **
** |_||_| **
** |_||_| **
** **
** **
Ta ta...
Matt Dralle
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle(at)pacbell.com (Sir Matthew G Dralle 510-422-4896) |
rv-list%matronics.com(at)juts.ccc.amdahl.com
| Subject: | Re: Here is a sketch... |
>
> Bendix/King just introduced a new radio!! The KX 125.
>
> +-------------------+---------------------+-------------------+
>
>
>
>
> +-------------------------------------------------------------+
>
> The new radio is still a digital flip flop, with standby and active
> frequencies. But the display is all LCD's not LED's, also the best
> feature is the CDI is built into the center of the radio. This will
> save panel space cuase you do not need a seperate CDI.
>
> The KX 125 is TSO'd and has an itroductory price of around $1,500.00
>
>
I would think with some discounting at places like Chief and San Val, the
price might be in the 1100-1200 range. Not too bad - I guess. That would
buy a hell of a next FM/AM receiver for home though, you know? That really
pisses me off.
Oh buy the way (yes, that's a pun) I noticed that VAL has lowered the price on
their 720 channel 10 watt txver to $550. That would be a cheap way to go. I
lean more towards the new King unit myself, though...
Matt Dralle
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | amail.amdahl.com!christopher.schulte(at)pacbell.com |
| Subject: | Subject of Radios |
I have a question. Does anyone have any data the Terra Digital Radios
I plan on installing a King KX165 & KX155, for nav/comms But I want to use
the Terra Digital ADF & Transponder cause I like the remote bearing indica-
tor and I like the space saving size of the radios.
I'm wondering if anyone know anybody that has these radios installed in
there aircraft and what they think about there quality. More so I'd like to
know if they have any Time to Failure history. One thing about the king rad
ios is they last a long time bouncing around in an airplane before they have
a failure.
Thanks for your input or ideas
Chris.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | nlm.nih.gov!masys(at)pacbell.com (Dr. Daniel R. Masys) |
rv-list%matronics.com(at)juts.ccc.amdahl.com
| Subject: | Re: Subject of Radios |
> I have a question. Does anyone have any data the Terra Digital Radios
I plan on installing a King KX165 & KX155, for nav/comms But I want to use
the Terra Digital ADF & Transponder cause I like the remote bearing indica-
tor and I like the space saving size of the radios.
>
The Terra ADF is quite new; when I considered replacing the ADF in my
182 spamcan about 18 months ago, Terra sent me a brochure on the ADF but
said it wasn't in production yet.
The Terra transponder generally gets good reviews (though mine is a King),
and has the advantage that unlike the King and Narco units, it does not
use the dreaded cavitron tube which is expensive, life limited and no
longer in production. Factory-new Mooneys come with King avionics and
Terra transponders, so they can't be too bad.
Dan Masys
masys(at)lhc.nlm.nih.gov
________________________________________________________________________________
for
for
| From: | WISCHMEYER1(at)AppleLink.Apple.COM (Wischmeyer, Ed) |
Ah, radio$, a $ubject much nearer to my heart than to my wallet.
KX-155: the old workhorse, but probably, for practical GA purpo$e$, superseded
by the KX-125, especially for VFR. IFR really wants a separate VOR head, as
discussed below.
KX-165: depending upon the model, can have 10 presets for comm; has a digital
OBS readout (there are aftermarket KX-155 digital OBS readouts for $300,
though); and can drive an RMI, for tho$e who want it. And the price for these
features is astronomical, relatively speaking.
Terra Comm: 10 presets, and they have one in a flat pack with a pushbutton for
each preset frequency. If I were doing it again, I would think very seriously
about this, as it would allow me to preset ATIS, clearance, ground, both
towers, and all 3 approach frequencies for my home field, with two unicoms left
over. Pushing a button and verifying the selection strikes me as lots cooler
than turning knobs and verifying. However, this is all theory until I have
flown one.
Terra nav: I doubt that they have a built-in digital OBS, because their
separate indicators (which I despise, although I have not flown one) have a
digital readout. There is a lot of functionality and painless IFR double
checking provided by having a full compass rose on the VOR head, like King and
Collins and Narco do, and I am exceedingly reluctant to give that up.
Digital OBS in general: I think that it is pretty useless. About the only time
you would ever use it would be for general orientation, not for tracking, and
there are aftermarket digital readouts that you can switch between the two
VORs. If it were me, I would get one of those and modify it with a spring
loaded center off switch so that I never (hopefully) read the wrong one. I
prefer needles to digits.
Terra XPDR: I have an older one with the horrible pushbutton up-down counters,
and aside from what appeared to be a momentary bad bit in the reply code, cured
by twiddling the pushbuttons, it has worked fine. I got it because I needed to
conserve panel space.
Don't forget audio panels. I like the Narco because it has a marker mute
function that will kill the marker beacon audio for 20 seconds, and then
automatically unmute. I both like and dislike it because it does not let you
separately channel speaker and phones, and dislike it because it does not let
you easily turn off both comms.
My recommendation? (subject to mind changing experiences and reality checks
from the radio shops)
Narco audio panel
King VOR/ILS head Terra flat comm #1 with 10 pushbuttons
King VOR head Terra Nav 1, Nav 2
Digital OBS Terra flat comm #2 with 10 pushbuttons
Terra XPDR and ADF
GPS/Loran/Inertial/warp drive
One comm would always have preset frequencies for home base, and the other comm
would be altered for each (IFR) flight with destination frequencies.
You might also post to rec.aviation. There are probably more radio literate
people there than on the rv-list.
Ed Wischmeyer, ATP, CFII
RV-4 with KX-155 w/ GS; Terra XPDR and encoder
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle (Sir Matthew G Dralle 510-422-4896) |
>You might also post to rec.aviation. There are probably more radio literate
>people there than on the rv-list.
What?! That hurts...
Matt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | amail.amdahl.com!christopher.schulte(at)pacbell.com |
| Subject: | Re: Subject of Radios |
>I can't help you on the Terra's, but I am curious why you would want to go
>with the 165. I don't think its good value. A pair of 155's would serve
>and if you like the radial read out feature of the 165, it can be added by
>third party for about $300.
>
>
>Bret
Simple, I already have a KX 165...
But the new update is a better deal & it's still TSO'd
Chris.
RV-6 #21390
San Jose CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | amail.amdahl.com!christopher.schulte(at)pacbell.com |
>>You might also post to rec.aviation. There are probably more radio literate
>>people there than on the rv-list.
>
>What?! That hurts...
>
>Matt
Well Matt, we were looking for you personal advice in radio theory but
all we got was a
Chris.
RV-6 #21390
San Jose CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | amail.amdahl.com!christopher.schulte(at)pacbell.com |
| Subject: | Wires For Strobes |
Question:
To all of you wing veterans that installed strobe lights in your wing
tip? I'm not planning on putting wing tip strobes on my RV-6. But I do
want to run the wires for the strobes if in the future me, or some future
owner of this excellent craft, wishes to intall wing tip lights. If I
ever do decide on that I'll use the single power unit and run the High
Voltage lines to the strobes.
Oh almost forgot the question. How many amps do the strobe lights draw
an what is the recommend wire guage to run out there? I plan on running
all the wing wireing some time this weekend.
Chris.
RV-6 #21390
San Jose CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Stafford <pauls(at)hpsrrjp.sr.hp.com> |
buy the "installation kit from the manufacturer. It has the proper wires,
shielding, and terminating connectors, and isn't too expensive. run
that, and then when you want to put in the lights, it's just plugging in
the connectors. You might also plan ahead for the ckt breaker and switch.
Paul Stafford, RV4 N84PS
150 hours and climbing...climbing...climbing- boy that's fun!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ccrdb(at)groper.jcu.edu.au (Ray Belbin) |
I heard from a friend who's building an RV-6 that anodising of
the main spar reduces the fatigue life. Apparently it was covered in the
RViator. Anyone worried?
Also, I am about to convert from RV-dreamer-builder to
RV-order-builder very shortly - i.e. order my very first parts, the tail
kit. Has anybody got any tips or ideas for ordering the first bits and
getting the stuff to Australia? For example, surely I don't need all 368
clekos just for the tail kit. I'm planning to order 100 to start with,
and get more as I need them.
Appreciate any tips
Ray Belbin
Townsville
Australia
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Krieg <chris(at)cis.ohio-state.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Wires For Strobes |
I plan to install an aluminum tubing conduit in each wing to allow me to
run or re-run wire in my wings whenever I need to. This way, I can build
the wing without the risk of damaging the wires and possibly causing a
short somewhere. plus, if I want to work on or replace the wiring sometime
down the road, I can just pull out the old and slide in the new. That would
be very difficult to do if you just feed the wires through bushings in the
ribs.
Chris Krieg
RV-6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | amail.amdahl.com!christopher.schulte(at)pacbell.com |
| Subject: | RE: Pholiston Spar |
Ray:
I desided to go with the Phlogiston spare in my RV-6. When I visited
VAN's I saw the *unfinished* and the Phlo-Spars and they really do a lot
of work for the money.... Plus I'm not to excitted about bucking those BIG
rivets. I heard all the pros & cons about anodizing before, but I figure
under normal use, the spare will still out live me fatigue wise - 80 yrs.
When you order your clecos get them through VAN's or someother place
that carries 'Cleco' brand. I've found them to be the best, they have
stronger springs, and fit very snug, no slack, in the holes.
If you have little to no tools at this time I'd recomend checking out
the tool KITS that Avery Enterprises offers. They specialize in RV builders
Of corse the owner - Bob Avery is an RV builder, I talked to him about a
month back and he said he finally 'got it on the gear'.
Avery Enterprizes Phone (817) 267-9407
P.O. Box 387
Bedford, Texas 76095 Fax (817) 545-2829
Chris.
RV-6 #21390
San Jose CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle (Sir Matthew G Dralle 510-422-4896) |
| Subject: | Fuel Senders and Tanks... |
>
> Matt:
>
> The last couple letters that I've gotten from the rv-list have been
> multiplying!! I mean I get like six copies of the same letter?? Any Idea
> why??
Humm, can't explain that. I finally got the bogus addresses that were
causing bounces out of the list, but I've only been getting one copy of
the messages to rv-list.
>
> Next question is an airplane question?? What exactly is the diference
> between the F-385B & F-385C fuel sending units?? Are they interchangable?
> I can't see any diference. Physicly of Electronicly... I have the feeling
> that one of them is misslabled and either I have two 'C' or two 'B' senders.
>
Yes, there is a difference. It has to do with the screw spacing and the
hi/lo resistance of the sender. Look very carefully and you should see that
one of the screws is offset and it should be lefthand/righthand depending on
the sender you are looking at. Also, if you use a ohm meter, you will
see that the hi/lo resistance are related to the screw pattern.
> Any Ideas?? Are your senders already installed in you tanks??
>
Yes, and no. I have them fit a drilled, but not yet "perminatly" installed.
I've been building the tanks the last few weeks. Gawd, what a disgusting job!
I built the wings 2-3 years ago and am just getting to the final assembly of
the tanks now. Here's a tip, believe the 9 month usable life time of the
ProSeal. I was using some that was about 12 months old. It worked, but was
hard to use. I ordered some new, and it was a lot easier to use. I suppose
"a lot" is relitive here!
> Chris.
Matt Dralle
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Wentz <Don_Wentz(at)ccm.hf.intel.com> |
> I heard from a friend who's building an RV-6 that anodising of
> the main spar reduces the fatigue life. Apparently it was covered
> in the RViator. Anyone worried?
Ray, Chris was right, Van calculated a 'reduced' life of about 80
years, should be sufficient for us. I have a Phlogiston spar, and
it is very nice (not perfect, mind you, but nice). If you won't
be hurt by the $800, buy one. It will save you having to
figure-it out 'Down there'. Since I live with 10 miles of Van's
factory, I would build my own NEXT time (don't let my wife hear
this!), since someone around here will know all about it.
> Also, I am about to convert from RV-dreamer-builder to
> RV-order-builder very shortly - i.e. order my very first parts,
> the tail kit.
Congrats!
> Has anybody got any tips or ideas for ordering the
> first bits and getting the stuff to Australia? For example, surely
> I don't need all 368 clekos just for the tail kit. I'm planning to
> order 100 to start with, and get more as I need them.
Van must know about getting it there. I am just finishing my
wings, and 650 3/32 clecoes was NOT too many. I did the tail kit
with 100, which was barely enough.
> Appreciate any tips
Again, Chris is right about Avery Tools. Not always the lowest
price, but you can count on what you get.
Like they kept telling me, 'if you don't get started, you won't
ever fly it!'
Good luck, Don Wentz RV-6
Ray Belbin
Townsville
Australia
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ccrdb(at)groper.jcu.edu.au (Ray Belbin) |
| Subject: | PhloGiston Spars |
Thank-you Guys,
your responses have been extremely helpful, particularly
with the tools. I'm making the appropriate calls now. I'll go for the
anadised pre-made spar since I don't expect to be doing many loops when
I'm 112 years old - still sexing hopefully though! Also I live on the
tropical North-east queensland coast, so corrosion-proofing is
paramount.
SOME GENERAL INFO ....
In Oz we are just starting to get a rv-builders group (non
E-mail type) since the # of builders in this country seems to have
exploded lately to an estimated 35. Not bad for a country with the
population of New York City!
Thanks again
____________________
| Ray Belbin * |
| Townsville * |
| Queensland * |
| Australia * |
--------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bang!bam(at)nosc.mil (Bret A. Marquis) |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bang!bam(at)nosc.mil (Bret A. Marquis) |
>the wings 2-3 years ago and am just getting to the final assembly of
>the tanks now. Here's a tip, believe the 9 month usable life time of the
>ProSeal. I was using some that was about 12 months old. It worked, but was
>hard to use. I ordered some new, and it was a lot easier to use. I suppose
>"a lot" is relitive here!
I had the same experience. When my wing kit arrived, it was well over a
year before I started building it.. By then my ProSeal had expired almost
a year before. (guess they sent almost out of date seal to start with).
The new stuff we bought, was much easier to use.. Had been formulated only
weeks before. My guess is that I would have found many more leaks than
we actually did if I had sealed all 4 of my tanks with the old seal.
Bret Marquis
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bang!bam(at)nosc.mil (Bret A. Marquis) |
| Subject: | Re: OZ homebuilts? |
Sorry Bret, something must have gone wrong somewhere. I got a
blank message from you entitled OZ Homebuilts but no contents. Not sure
what's happening.
Don't know what happened there.. Was curious about the Australian
equivalent of the US Federal Aviation Administration and how they deal
with homebuilt aircraft and kits.
Are you likely to have any troubles flying what you build down there?
Bret
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ccrdb(at)groper.jcu.edu.au (Ray Belbin) |
| Subject: | Re: OZ homebuilts? |
Don't know what happened there.. Was curious about the Australian
equivalent of the US Federal Aviation Administration and how they deal
with homebuilt aircraft and kits.
Are you likely to have any troubles flying what you build down there?
Firstly a little history . . . Our equivalent of the FAA in US
is CAA (Civil Aviation Authority). By definition, a extreme empire of
beauracrats. Anyway, all aviation matters used to be handled by them
(prior 1990) and things like building homebuilts were discouraged and
mishandled .
Anyway, nowadays there is a crowd called SAAA (Sport Aircraft
Association of Australia) which I believe are equivalent to your EAA. A
growing number of homebuilts are being certified in Australia... among
them that I know of are ...
RV4,6,6A
KR1,2
Seqou Falco
Jodel
Seahawk
Ospray
Corby Starlet
Busby Mustang
Lancair
Glassair
... I know you've been waiting for this on the list, but as yet I
haven't heard of any Questairs in the country. Pity, I'd love to see
one.
Above all, there has been a bit of a revolution in tha attitude
of our CAA lately. A major upheaval of our once draconian airways
management system occurred on Dec 12th 1991 . In effect, the rules under
which we now fly/build are mirroring that of the US. Any US private
pilot can now fly here with very little changeover fuss. It costs $35 US
and at worst an hour or two dual, and you are then issued with an
Australian licence!
____________________
| Ray Belbin * |
| Townsville * |
| Queensland * |
| Australia * |
--------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | amail.amdahl.com!christopher.schulte(at)pacbell.com |
| Subject: | Re: Austalian License |
> Any US private
>pilot can now fly here with very little changeover fuss. It costs $35 US
>and at worst an hour or two dual, and you are then issued with an
>Australian licence!
>
Guess I'll stop by one day soon and add an Australian Ticket to my
collection then!! Always wanted to visit anyway - So what better excuse!
Chris.
RV-6 #21390
San Jose CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ccrdb(at)groper.jcu.edu.au (Ray Belbin) |
| Subject: | Hole for aileron push-rod |
The question I'm about to ask might sound a little obscure since
it pertains to a friend nearby who is making an rv6. He tried to explain
over the phone .
Q. In the wings, there is a hole in the ribs to allow the push-rod
for the ailerons to pass through. John says it is a 1/2" hole. The
instructions say to enlarge the hole 'as necessary' to allow the
push-rod to fit through the hole. He is wondering if other people have
had to enlarge this hole very much if at all?
P.S. Thanks again for the tips about parts from Avery.
-------------------------------------- TODAYS WEATHER ------
O o o
| / 33 C showers/storms
___-------======-----, -----------------------.
|==== |__ | Ray Belbin |
| /- _____ .....__/.-- | TROPICAL Townsville |
/ / \/ / | Queensland |
|__/ \__./ | AUSTRALIA |
-----------------------'
THUNDER DOWN UNDER .... OZ! (Notice the Rv6A undercart!)
-------------------------------------- (Remember America's Cup '83!)--
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | The RAN's S-10 Flies!! |
A freind of mine named Chuck, just finished building a Ran's S-10 Sakota
after a year of working in his garage, and now it flies! Here's the story...
Chuck got his plane moved out to Holliser Airport a few weeks back and got the
FAA out to take a look at it and provided him with all the paper work on Tues-
day of last week. Then it was just a question of will the weather let us Fly?
So, anyway - on Sunday we drove do to Holiister Airport, that's about an
hour south of Amdahl. We tinker'd with a few airplane things and installing
a hobbs meter.. ect. Then about 3:00 we rolled it out of the hanger and I
took the plane out for a few Taxi test. I spent 5-6 times down the runway
trying to lift the tail with out going all over the place. Then another 10
runs down the runway watching the gages ect. And lifting the tail off the
ground. Then took it back to the hanger for inspection.
The next day, Monday, we got to the airport about noon, the wind was a-
bout calm, and the clouds 3000' scattered. We installed some wing gap seals,
and inspected the plane. Also we removed the canopy. I wanted to fly with a
helmet on my head and the Canopy was a little to low when wearing a big bulky
motorcyle helmet. I crawled around the cockpit and inspected all the rudder
cables an noticed that one cable had outdone it bracket, Chuck made up some
aluminum brakets and we installed those.
Because the airplane was really poor breaks it's not possible to get the
engine over 3000 RPM without the airplane moving, I wanted to run the engine
at at least 6000 RPM for some extended period of time. (During the Engine
breakin procedures it was run at 6300 RPMs) But I wanted to see and here what
it sounded like myself since this was the first Rotax driven aircraft i've
ever flown. We tied the tail down and I ran the airplane at 6000' rpm for
about 10 - 15 min. everything looked fine. It was time to hit the runway.
By this time the celing had improved to about 3500 scattered, but the
wind had kicked up to about 5 - 8 knots at 270 or so. Hollister was using
runway 31, so I went with the flow, I did about 5 Taxis down the runway, and
brought up the scuerly bird to the 2 point att. I mange to lift the left wing
a few times and one wheel it down the runway - But the right wing seemed like
it did not want to fly. Chuck was on the ground with a hand held so I decid-
ed we'd switch to rwy 24 - by this time the wind was really favoring 24 with
only about a 20 deg crosswind. The trafic in the pattern was adimit to stay
on 31 so we just kept our eyes and ears open.
On 24 after a few runs down the runway I got the right wing up and one
wheeled it down the hole runway, Taxing back for one more I told chuck I'll
try for all up this time! Went back gave here the gun and lifted the S-10
to about 10 feet, then let it down for two landings, a two point and a three
point (Nobodies perfect). It was time to inspect the plane and pick up some
more fuel(we know the tanks work down to this level).
It was a little after 5:00 when I fired it back up and taxi'd out for
the first real flight. Told chuck he better have the camera ready cause I
was only taking off once! At the 24 numbers the wind was less then 5 now
an staight down the pipe. I gave the little two cycle the jucie and rumbled
down the runway, I picked her off the runway and took it in ground effect up
to 80 mph for the climb out. It was very smooth.
I took the Sakota S-10 up 2,500 feet before playing with anything. There
I started some 10 20 then 30 deg banks, Slow flight, imenet stalls. Not I
brought in the flap, this plane has flaperons which mad the feel much differ-
ent. I slowed the plan again and practiced turns. After about 20-25 min in
the air I headed back to O45, it was getting dark too. I ran a very long
base and long final with power through out the decent.
At about a mile out I turned the vasi lights on. red over red, which
didn't bother me too much since their are much better places to land in Hol-
lister then the airport. Over the fence I chopped the power back and the
little bird decended pretty quick - I added a little power back just over the
numbers and brought the nose up to the three point attitude, Swish I heard
the tail wheel on the ground, never even heard the mains hit - It was a per-
fect three piont landing.
Next step - Red Lobster for a little celerbration!! It was great! I
can't wait to get my RV-6 out of the garage!!
Chris.
RV-6 #21390
San Jose CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | misg!seahcx!phred!dougm(at)travis.csd.harris.com (RV-6A abuilding) |
| Subject: | Prepping for priming |
Rvators:
I bought the Desoto primer based on Don Wentz and Paul Stafford's
comments. I am now ready to paint the areas on the HS ribs
and spars where the rivets go. I plan to assemble the
skeleton and then put it in the jig, line it up, align the
skins, and then drill and clecoe them. Then I'll take the
skins back off, deburr and dimple, and then paint the whole
skeleton plus the inside of the skins. Then back in the jig
and rivet the skin on.
I've got some questions:
1) What do you do for primer prep? Do you go over everything
with Scotchbrite? Do you wipe everything with MEK or acetone?
Any details you can provide will be appreciated.
2) What temperature do you paint at? I remember from talking
to the women at Desoto that I should paint at 75 +- 5
degrees F. I'm in a unheated garage so this is kind of
hard to do right now.
3) What are you doing safety wise? Did anyone buy one of those
fresh air masks with the outside air feed? I am building
a small paint booth (about 3'h x 2'd x 6'w) out of the rigid
insulation board they sometimes use on houses. The bottom will
be 1/2" plywood. I'm going to use two 100 watt light bulbs
and a cheap 110volt thermostat for the heating system. I'll
use a three-way switch so that I can bypass the thermostat
when I'm painting, thus no sparks. I'm looking for a fan
right now that doesn't blow the air over the motor. The
complete project will have everything grounded that I can
possibly hook up a wire to. The output of the fan will be
vented outdoors through a window. Any comments?
I have the little "quickie cleanup" gun from Avery and have
already used it to do some painting with latex paint around
the house. It works pretty slick. Any comments you might
have with regards to painting my plane would be appreciated.
Thanks, Doug Medema RV-6A
P.S. I just ordered $300 more worth of tools from Avery and U.S.
Industrial yesterday. I got a used rivet gun at Boeing surplus
for $40.00 (along with a flush rivet set) and 3 different
bucking bars for $5 apiece. I think I now have the tools
necessary to complete the tail kit.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ccrdb(at)groper.jcu.edu.au (Ray Belbin) |
| Subject: | Compressor/Rivet Gun |
Am about to get a compressor and rivet gun for rv6A tail kit.
Should I go for 8 cubic foot or 10 cubic foot compressor? In OZ a 3X
rivet gun rated at 70-100 psi retails for $260 AUS. Does van sell a
decent priced one, or get it from Avery? I'm waiting on a catalog from
Avery.
Sorry to be lagging, but could somebody give me a quick fill-in
regarding the Doseto primer mentioned by Doug.
Thank-you,
-------------------------------------- TODAYS WEATHER ------
O o 33 C afternoon showers
___-------======-----, -----------------------.
|==== |__ | Ray Belbin |
| /- _____ .....__/.-- | TROPICAL Townsville |
/ / \/ / | Queensland |
|__/ \__./ | AUSTRALIA |
-----------------------'
THUNDER DOWN UNDER .... OZ! (Notice the Rv6A undercart!)
-------------------------------------- (Remember America's Cup '83!)--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bang!bam(at)nosc.mil (Bret A. Marquis) |
| Subject: | Re: Prepping for priming |
MEK and acetone and the hangar door open wide. We've been using primer
on small sections as we complete them. The biggest was the wing and
we did not use scotch brite since we had previously conversion coated
all the pieces.
No fancy paint booth though that would have been nice.j
Bret
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Compressor/Rivet Gun |
> Am about to get a compressor and rivet gun for rv6A tail kit.
>Should I go for 8 cubic foot or 10 cubic foot compressor? In OZ a 3X
>rivet gun rated at 70-100 psi retails for $260 AUS. Does van sell a
>decent priced one, or get it from Avery? I'm waiting on a catalog from
>Avery.
I had alot of headaces getting a compressor since I didn't have 220V
in my garage I tried to get a good 110V one... Ha! It's not worth it, so
I ran a 220V line from the front of my house back to the Garage(it's de-
tached from the house). I settled on 5hp Belt Drive Compressor from Sears
the Belt Drives are a little quieter then direct drive. It is rate at 9.4
cubic feet @ 90 psi.
As far as Rivet Guns go, I bought a rebuilt Chicago Pneumatic from some
place?? I got a good deal one it 1yr warranty and all for about $190.00 If
you want to hold out for the Avery catalog, Bob sells a either a 2x or 3x CP
clone for $175.00 each. I have a 3x gun and it would be mmy choice again.
I shot 3/32" rivet at 40 psi and 1/8" at 60 psi... and they come out perfect!
Chris.
RV-6 #21390
San Jose CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Stafford <pauls(at)hpsrrjp.sr.hp.com> |
I tried methyl ehtyl bad stuff for a while, but eventually turned to
plain old soap and water. After solvents to get grease and stuff off,
disp soap ( formulated to leave no residue) worked great. MEK and Acetone
often left a residue, if they were the final treatment. Also, don't forget
a tack rag. The primer was very forgiving of surface pre-treatment, but
spraying Polyurethane, every fingerprint or imperfection makes the paint
wick away, leaving a really ugly spot.
Always use a filter mask, spray outdoors in the early morning, before
breezes come up, or bugs wake up, if you don't have a paint booth. Use an
inline water trap/filter in the airline, as water in the compressor tank also
screws things up royally. If you can get a pressure pot, it works best when
doing large pieces requiring the gun to be upside down.
If I had it to do again, I think I'd skip the expense of polyurethane, and just
use acrylic enamel.its hard, cheap, and much much more forgiving of
technique.
Paul Stafford, N84PS RV4
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Wentz <Don_Wentz(at)ccm.hf.intel.com> |
| Subject: | Hole for aileron push-rod |
>Q. In the wings, there is a hole in the ribs to allow the push-rod
>for the ailerons to pass through. John says it is a 1/2" hole. The
>instructions say to enlarge the hole 'as necessary' to allow the
>push-rod to fit through the hole. He is wondering if other people
> have
>had to enlarge this hole very much if at all?
Ray, I made mine larger than plans to begin with and still had to
"stretch" it to fit. Problem is that the rod moves laterally due
to the action of the bellcrank. I also had to take a small chunk
out of the flap gap seal to clear the rod at max down aileron. A
good round file and a few minutes effort was all that was
required.
Any of you guys noticed how SQUARE the RV-6 wings look with
control surfaces on but not the tips? -4's wouldn't be as
noticable, but the -6 wing looks SO wierd and stubby.
Builder's tip (Steve, put in the newsletter): I was looking at
Jerry Dickson's fuselage over the weekend (builder in Wenatchee,
Washington). He backriveted his and I have NEVER seen a smoother
fuselage. He just welded a handle on a smooth hunk of steel and
used his Avery back-riveting set. Very nice!
Don Wentz RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Wentz <Don_Wentz(at)ccm.hf.intel.com> |
| Subject: | Compressor/Rivet Gun |
> Am about to get a compressor and rivet gun for rv6A tail kit.
>Should I go for 8 cubic foot or 10 cubic foot compressor? In OZ a 3X
>rivet gun rated at 70-100 psi retails for $260 AUS. Does van sell a
>decent priced one, or get it from Avery? I'm waiting on a catalog
> from
>Avery.
One of the few items I got from ATS that was satisfactory was a
rebuilt rivet gun for $65.
> Sorry to be lagging, but could somebody give me a quick fill-in
>regarding the Doseto primer mentioned by Doug.
To order, call Sue Foye at 1-800-765-9550
Desoto Aerospace Coatings
1608 Fourth Street
Berkeley, CA 94710
The 2-gallon kit (one gallon of Epoxy primer and one of catalyst)
is part #K513x390 $34 (6-11 kit price) which she gave me
$48 (1-5 kit price, normally)
I also recommend getting a gallon of their Epoxy thinner for
thinning, pre-cleaning parts, and cleanup.
part #020x411 $27
Shipping will be additional. (think they will send to OZ?)
Later on, don wentz RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ccrdb(at)groper.jcu.edu.au (Ray Belbin) |
Thank-you guys for the help regarding primer,rear wing spar and
engine weights.
This RV-list is definitely worth its weight in RVs (6As). I have
gained so much already at the commencenment of the project. Thanks
again, your help is very much appreciated,
Ray
OZ!
PS There is a guy over here I've just discovered on the net who is
building an RV4. As soon as I get a reply from him I'll ask him about
joining. I 'll Don his address, right?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | GRACELY(at)YODA.NIDR.NIH.GOV |
| Subject: | SKINS, WATER, PAPER |
I am in need of some group wisdom. Since I am competing for the smallest shop
to ever launch an RV-6, I had to store my fuselage crate, unopened, covered
with plastic, in my old garage. When recently I finally opened it, I found that
that the roof had leaked and water had penetrated one lower corner, resulting
in a white powdery corrosion on the bottom 6 skins [ 670 (2), 672, 676, 677,
678] in the crate.
Any advice on what to do, and implications for further weakness?
My options seem to be:
1. Buy new ones, cost is not great (150) but shipping and crating may double it.
Every shop needs odd scraps of partly corroded aluminum, right?
2. Use some combination of scotch brite, acid bath and conversion coat, and
self-etch or two-part epoxy primer.
I had thought of leaving the interior skins, where not contacting other
structures, bare alclad. My 1947 Cessna 120 still looks fine, and this area is
easily inspectable and subsequently coatable. If I keep these skins I will
have to go with primer, but this may be the best way to go anyway, since this
plane may be used often to get me to the beach, and thus spend some time in
a saltwater atmosphere.
Any one have any opinions about relative merits of bare alclad,
primered alclad, primered non-alclad (after I scotch brite it off), and
necessity of conversion (allodyne) process in this situation?
Hail to the Redskins but boo to my whiteskins
Rick Gracely RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Morrissey +61 6 276 6811 <John.Morrissey(at)mis.csiro.au> |
| Subject: | Re - Skins water paper |
----- Begin Included Message -----
________________________________________________________________________________
>that the roof had leaked and water had penetrated one lower corner, resulting
>in a white powdery corrosion on the bottom 6 skins [ 670 (2), 672, 676, 677,
>678] in the crate.
>
>Any advice on what to do, and implications for further weakness?
>My options seem to be:
>1. Buy new ones, cost is not great (150) but shipping and crating may double it.
> Every shop needs odd scraps of partly corroded aluminum, right?
>2. Use some combination of scotch brite, acid bath and conversion coat, and
> self-etch or two-part epoxy primer.
It really depends on two factors:
1. how deep is the corrosion ?
2. How thick are the skins involved ?
When we recieved our RV6 kit from the US we found that it had not taken the sea
travel well, there were a few areas where the salt air had taken it toll. All
we
did was rub the parts involved with the trusty Scotchbrite and the primed all the
parts. Fortunately there was no deep pitting. I would try this with your kit and
hopefully you have only lost the Alclad coating from the surface. A coat of primer
and you should be on your way!!
>Any one have any opinions about relative merits of bare alclad,
>primered alclad, primered non-alclad (after I scotch brite it off), and
>necessity of conversion (allodyne) process in this situation?
Assuming the Alclad coating is OK the bare skins is good. but the nasty thing
about corrosion is that it gets into all those areas where you can't see like the
joints between various parts like bulkheads and outer skins. I suppose if you use
some sort of jointing compound you would get around this. Lets face it the
aircraft will be around a lot longer than you will no matter what you do!
Whats the statu of your project??
See ya later!
John Morrissey
VH-JSP JODEL D11
VH-HRV VANS RV6
VH-??? VANS RV4 Under construction
________________________________________________________________________________
Quick Question:
When wire'n up the wing. Is it normal practice to use the Fuselage/Wing
as the ground, or do you run a seperate ground wire up the wing? I need
ground for my landings lights, nav lights, and my pitot heat.
Chris.
RV-6 #21390
San Jose CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bang!bam(at)nosc.mil (Bret A. Marquis) |
| Subject: | Re: Wing Wires.... |
.com!christopher.schulte@ub-gate.ub.com
Subject: Wing Wires....
Status: R
Quick Question:
When wire'n up the wing. Is it normal practice to use the Fuselage/Wing
as the ground, or do you run a seperate ground wire up the wing? I need
ground for my landings lights, nav lights, and my pitot heat.
I'm using the wing for the ground return for my fuel tanks and lighting.
Bret
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Stafford <pauls(at)hpsrrjp.sr.hp.com> |
wings, fuselages work fine. only the starter needs a separate ground wire
for a good return and easy cranking. think about how bog a cross sectioanl ara
the wing has- it's a perfect return. Mine works fine
Paul S N84PS RV4
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ccrdb(at)groper.jcu.edu.au (Ray Belbin) |
A collegue of mine (and fellow spam-can driver) from this Uni
will be in LA and surrounds for the week April 25 to May 1st. He aims to
assist me with the construction of my RV6A.
Is there anyone in that area who might possibly be lured out of
their office to show him that RVs really do fly? Lee is 6'3" and thin
weighing in at 85kg/187lbs, (before getting on the airliner). He will
also be travelling to San Jose, San Diego, Atlanta and Toronto the following weeks.
-
PS Got my latest Avery Catalog yesterday - haven't seen a toyshop
as good as this for ages!
------------------------------------------ TODAYS WEATHER ------
| 0 o | 30 C 3/8ths Cu 4000' |
| ________-======--.. |______________________________________|
| ==== \ | | Ray Belbin (ccrdb(at)groper.jcu.edu.au) |
| | /- ___ . .....__|-| | TROPICAL Townsville , Queensland |
| |__./ ---:__/ | | AUSTRALIA ************************* |
| |--------------------------------------|
| THUNDER DOWN UNDER .... OZ! | |
------------------------------------- (Remember America's Cup '83!)--
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Electric heaters |
Any of you ever wondered about electric heat for an aircraft? I
got some info on a small 12volt heater that cost about 150 bucks.
Pro or con comments?
I will try to remember the info so I can give more specs next
week.
don w. RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jimharr(at)microsoft.com |
| Subject: | Re: Electric heaters |
my only concern about an electric heater would be the
current draw: at night, with the lights on, etc.: can
the alternator handle it?
jim harriger
p.s. hiya don!
> >From ingate!uunet!intelhf!ccm!don_wentz@lll-winken.llnl.gov Fri Mar 20 17:30:54
1992
> Received: from matronics.com by ingate.microsoft.COM
> Received: from lll-winken.llnl.gov by matronics.com (4.1/1.15)
> Received: by lll-winken.llnl.gov (4.1/LLNL-1.18);
> Received: from uunet.uu.net (via LOCALHOST.UU.NET) by relay2.UU.NET with SMTP
> Received: from intelhf.UUCP by uunet.uu.net with UUCP/RMAIL
> Date: Fri, 20 Mar 92 17:15:15 PST
> >From: Don Wentz <uunet!ccm.hf.intel.com!Don_Wentz@lll-winken.llnl.gov>
> Message-Id: <920320171515_3(at)ccm.hf.intel.com>
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Electric heaters
>
>
> Any of you ever wondered about electric heat for an aircraft? I
> got some info on a small 12volt heater that cost about 150 bucks.
>
> Pro or con comments?
>
> I will try to remember the info so I can give more specs next
> week.
>
> don w. RV-6
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Electric heaters |
Any of you ever wondered about electric heat for an aircraft? I
got some info on a small 12volt heater that cost about 150 bucks.
Pro or con comments?
Here are some quick specs:
size: 4" h, 5" w, 6" deep
output: 25, 35, or 60 amps, 52 cfm (85 for 60 amp unit)
weight: 2 pounds
price: 149, 160, 180 dollars respectively
speeds: low (2/3 of high) and high
vendor: DC Thermal
12430 Hwy 3
Suite E-20
Webster, TX 77598
713-486-0507
Looks like the amperage may put a drain on the lightweight, 35 amp
auto alternators many builders use...
don wentz, RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle (Matthew G. Dralle 510-422-4896) |
uunet!ccm.hf.intel.com!Don_Wentz@lll-winken.llnl.gov
| Subject: | Re: Electric heaters |
> Any of you ever wondered about electric heat for an aircraft? I
> got some info on a small 12volt heater that cost about 150 bucks.
>
> Pro or con comments?
>
> Here are some quick specs:
> size: 4" h, 5" w, 6" deep
> output: 25, 35, or 60 amps, 52 cfm (85 for 60 amp unit)
> weight: 2 pounds
> price: 149, 160, 180 dollars respectively
> speeds: low (2/3 of high) and high
> vendor: DC Thermal
> 12430 Hwy 3
> Suite E-20
> Webster, TX 77598
> 713-486-0507
>
> Looks like the amperage may put a drain on the lightweight, 35 amp
> auto alternators many builders use...
>
> don wentz, RV-6
>
I think the 35 amp alt is a bust. I am only considering the 55 amp or
even the new Bosch 65 amp unit. The weight is so close who cares. I'd be
really worried about having an electric fire started in my plane, know what
I mean? I would recommend being creative with ducting and use the
big heat source up front. You might also consider carpeting and taking
advantage of the insulative properties as well as the sound deading. Adds
a little extra weight, but who cares. Comfort is worth it; get a bigger
engine!
Matt Dralle
RV-4.
Status update to follow...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle (Matthew G. Dralle 510-422-4896) |
| Subject: | RV-4 Status Update... |
Hi fellas,
Sorry I've been so quiet lately. There have been lots of things going on and
even some exciting updates on my RV-4. Perhaps the biggest news is that they
delivered an Lyc 0360A1M to my house yesterday! I got it from an aircraft
wrecking place in Georgia. It came out of a '76 Cherokee 180 that had been
flipped over in a storm. It's mid-time with about 1000 hours since a new
manufacture overhaul. It seems to be in pretty good condition, at least
externally. The major was done 4 years ago and the wreck was less than a year
ago. The plane was used as a rental so that's bad in that it was probably
treated roughly, but good in that it was run often. Anyway, I had them take
the started and alt off and saved a couple hundred bucks. It cost $6500
plus shipping and COD ($650). Not a bad deal if I can get another 1000 hours
out of it. I do have to buy a new starter (new lite weight units) and an
alt. I'm also thinking of getting a Ellison TBFI, but the jury is still out on
that one. Seems like they cost $1-2k and I'm not sure it's really worth it.
Any thoughts? Also, I think I might put one of those new electronic ignitions
in place of one of the mags, although price might be a consideration there as
well. So it looks like I'll need to soak another $2-3K into it to get it
running and fit to be on my plane, but still not a bad deal I suppose. Engine
prices are really getting rediculous, especially for the 0360s.
On the other expensive side of aircraft construction, I purchased all of the
avionics as well. I went with the following: King KY97a comm, King KT76a
transponder, IIMorrow 618TCA loran C, the digital alt, as, vsi, mode c encoder
by Rocky Moutain Inst., and the digital engine inst monitor by Rocky Mtn Inst
as well, the RS Engineering RS2000 stereo intercom, and the Sony CDX5080
Am/Fm/CD player. With the digital fuel meters I designed, I should have a full
digital panel! No analog except for the 'G' meter. It looks like everything
will fit in the panel with a bit of creative planning. Total cost: about
$6000.
It is really nice to have the engine and instrument purchases behind me now. I
feel as if the only thing between me and flying is how much labor I can put in.
Still, it looks like 18 months before the maiden flight, assuming no major
interruptions (women, etc). I've been putting in quite a few hours in the
last few weeks. The floorboards, baggage area, controls, rear rudder peddles,
instrument panel and screw-on skin are the latest developments. I've actually
been sitting in it and making airplane noises!!! Now *that's* getting close!!
Matt Dralle
RV-4 #1763 180hp
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | moody(at)cyclone.mitre.org (John C. Moody) |
| Subject: | matts progress rept |
good to hear about your progress matt!
unfortunately i havent made too much lately--still working
on bulkheads in preparation for mounting in fuse jig.
Was wondering what the plan was on the prop? I had heard
(in this forum i think) that the extention reqd for fixed prop
is hard to come by for the 0360. Also was wondering if your
looking at any cowling mods to make it fit?
As i may have mentioned i wimped out and got the 0320. I just figured
there would be less problem getting it to fit everything else.
BTW a local builder here recently made his first flight in a -3.
After a couple of flights he noticed one of the flap actuator pushrods
was fractured. He said it was aluminum and replaced it with steel. Im
not even sure whats in my kit. It does seem like this part could experience
some stress and could ruin your day if one failed while low and slow.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle (Matthew G. Dralle 510-422-4896) |
| Subject: | Re: matts progress rept |
Yeah, this prop thing is kind of a pain. I was planning on using the
new fixed pitch metal prop that Van's is having made. I found out, however,
that it is only for the 320 and is definatly *not* recommended for the 360.
I may just be a rebel and try it anyway, then again, maybe not. Right now
I'm thinking about using a wood prop and maybe using the CS cowl since
it is suspose to be shorter and not require the extension. I don't know if
this really works in practice, though. Any body know for sure?
Also, since I have a pre-0360 size cowl, I have to buy a new one anyany. Please
pass the word around that I have a 320 rv-4 cowl I'd like to sell. Its unused
and is in like new condition. A new one from Van's is about $350.00
w/ cheek extensions and I'd be willing to make someone a good
deal on mine.
Matt Dralle
RV-4
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bang!bam(at)nosc.mil (Bret A. Marquis) |
| Subject: | Re: matts progress rept |
Yeah, this prop thing is kind of a pain. I was planning on using the
new fixed pitch metal prop that Van's is having made. I found out, however,
that it is only for the 320 and is definatly *not* recommended for the
360.
I may just be a rebel and try it anyway, then again, maybe not. Right
now
I'm thinking about using a wood prop and maybe using the CS cowl since
it is suspose to be shorter and not require the extension. I don't know
if
this really works in practice, though. Any body know for sure?
I think Lewis Aviation sells an aluminum extension for the O360. Charges
$325 for them. You might want to ask about them. 503/640-0505
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bang!bam(at)nosc.mil (Bret A. Marquis) |
| Subject: | Venture progress |
I don't know if I should ASSume that everyone on the list
reads rec.aviation.. I`ve included my public Venture progress in case
folks here missed it..
Anyway.. Lots of small stuff to deal with. Electrical trim motors
work fine, but we followed the questair plans too closely and built
the the trim system clutch too loosely. The motor turns but the
trim doesn't.
I'm still plagued with a small fuel leak from the left main.. Just a
colored spot on the wing root, but has been difficult to completely
eliminate. Bizarre actually, we can fill all 4 tanks completely full
(almost 90 gallons) and not a drop leaks, around 4 gallons each and
something doesn't stay sealed.. sigh.
Considering all the avionics and electrical shit I've installed, the
problems have been minor. A short in one of the trim actuator lines
that caused the elevator trim to run to the stops (full up!).
Discovered on the ground but it would have been uncontrollable in the
air.. Could have pulled the circuit breaker, but they aren't marked
yet. They **will** be before the plane flies! I also wired the Narco
encoder backwards. Melted the internal protection circuit (a resistor
and diode fried beyond recognition). Would have repaired it myself but
the schematics don't include values and I'd rather Narco recalibrate it
anyway.. Also discovered on the ground.. Couldn't figure out why the
Davtron OAT/Density altitude widget wasn't showing altitude.
I have a vertical card compass but it just won't work located near
anything in the panel. Rotating the HSI also rotates the mag compass!
The only other place is on top of the panel and I hate having anything
blocking my view outside.
A lot of soul searching went into deciding to include a speaker to the
audio panel system. First choice (and all other Ventures) just feed
recieved audio and intercom through the headset jacks. The fear is that
the small size of the cabin and the amount of metal (and magnets) may
not allow the flux gate compass to work properly.. I went ahead and
installed one since the panel includes an audio amp but I won't know if
its a good idea until we take the plane out to the compass rose.
What I didn't mention in the my post on the taxi tests was that we had
about 2-3 gallons in each tank (approx) and the fuel sloshing around
unported the pickups several times. The engine stopped during 2
acceleration tests and once when turning onto the runway. Had no
problems when we put a reasonable amount of fuel in the tanks!
Embarassing none the less. Wise ass remark from the tower wondering
where the other half of our 'RV' was. They also really enjoyed my `N'
Number (N3VD).
Things still on the list include wing root fairings and nose gear doors.
The latter will wait until the plane flies a bit and former is in
process right now.
If I rush real fast to get the plane ready for Sun N Fun, we could make
it. I'm in no rush. Odd as it may seem, I`m more interested in the
next Norwefi than I am in OSH, SunNFun or Arlington!
As far as weight and balance goes, I'm right where I expected to be. ie
about 1300 lbs. Or about 50 pounds heavier than the factory said I
would be. It means the plane will fly with 2 people and normal fuel or
full tanks and one person. In effect exactly what I thought.. The
miscalculation from Aero Air did almost stop my heart when they added
the tension figures for the tail instead of subtracting!
There's been a note or two about electrical heaters for an RV. The
Venture comes with 2 of them (24v). At that voltage they draw about 22
amps each on high power. I'm running one on high and the other low. The
other plan is to replace the exhaust system when it cracks (tbo is about
400 hours on the Venture tuned exhaust) and replace it with Questairs
new one with a heat muff (shroud?) and just eliminate the electrical
heaters completely. Their advantage is instant heat on the ground and a
very easy install (2 wires and 3 bolts), but the current draw is just
too high. With both on thats about 45 amps PLUS the rest of the
electrical draw (avionics, gear system, lights) and that would just max
out the 60 amp alternator the plane comes with.
By the by, if there are folks that missed my post on the Air Usenet
patches I ordered, I ordered a few extra.. Let me know if you'd
like one..
Bret Marquis
The following is the Rec.aviation post:
------------------------
My Venture project is moving along at a much higher pace right now.
Quite literally. Tuesday after completion of the engine baffling we
started taxiing it around the field at Hillsboro. High speed taxi
tests started on Wednesday. After each run we brought it back to the
hangar for inspection. Thursday using the full length of Hillsboro
(Oregon) runway 30, we acelerated to 60 knots, gently lifted the nose
off and set it back down on the runway. Full right rudder was required
to track straight during the aceleration run down the runway,
approaching 35 knots, I was able to ease off on the rudder and it
continued to track right down the center line. I limited the RPM to
2000 and I'm sure that the plane would have have flown if I had held
the nose off a few more seconds. Braking and steering are working well
with a slight tendancy to veer to the right at slow speeds.
Friday morning a few minutes of panic while we had the plane on the
scales at a nearby FBO. Weight and balance time, and part of the
process is to jack up the plane onto scales and add the weight of the
wings together and subtract the tail (which is being pulled down until
the plane is level) keeping the nose wheel off the ground. The
mechanic *added* the tail weight and we were all stunned until we
figured out where the miscalculation was.
A bit more electrical work to do.. The kit comes with three rather
kludgy rocker switches for the three axis electric trim. I thought it
would be a bit elegant and useful to put the elevator and aileron trim
on a a `top hat' style trim button on the control stick. This adds a
bit of complexity since I didn't want to run the full trim motor
current to the switch, rather just use low current control voltages to
relays located elsewhere. Elsewhere was the floor under the passenger
seat. Based on the drawings from Questair, there should have been
plenty of room under the seat. After the seats were upholstered and
installed did I realize that the seat really needed to be lowered all
the way down to the floor.. Sigh, time to move the carefully installed
and wired relays..
I had been concerned that the main landing gear struts would need to
either be returned to Questair for rework or overhauled locally since
they wouldn't hold pressure (nitrogen) once charged. This was a minor
fix requiring additional hydraulic fluid (8 ozs each side) to resolve.
Once the fluid level had been set and then charged with nitrogen the
cylinders have held without a problem since.
With all the paper work now complete, I'm waiting for the FAA to come
over and inspect. I hope they can find time in the next couple of
weeks. Temporary N number installation, the electrical trim changes
and a very thorough final assembly inspection are all thats standing in
the way of final final taxi tests and the start of flight testing..
Bret Marquis
Venture N3VD
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle (Matthew G. Dralle 510-422-4896) |
| Subject: | Re: matts progress rept |
>>Yeah, this prop thing is kind of a pain. I was planning on using the
>>new fixed pitch metal prop that Van's is having made. I found out, however,
>>that it is only for the 320 and is definatly *not* recommended for the 360.
>>I may just be a rebel and try it anyway, then again, maybe not. Right now
>>I'm thinking about using a wood prop and maybe using the CS cowl since
>>it is suspose to be shorter and not require the extension. I don't know if
>>this really works in practice, though. Any body know for sure?
>
>
> I think Lewis Aviation sells an aluminum extension for the O360. Charges
> $325 for them. You might want to ask about them. 503/640-0505
>
Hey great tip, thanks! Geeze, $325?? For a hunk of metal? Guess one could
say that about the whole plane though, huh? Hee hee - NOT.
Matt Dralle
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rodney Sinclair <rodney(at)math.ucla.edu> |
| Subject: | rodney's progress report |
I've finished my PhD. Now all I have to do is find a real job and then I
can buy the plans for an RV-6.
rodney(at)math.ucla.edu
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: re: Re: matts progress rept |
> Yeah, this prop thing is kind of a pain. I was planning on using
> the new fixed pitch metal prop that Van's is having made. I found
> out, -however, that it is only for the 320 and is definatly *not*
> recommended for -the 360. I may just be a rebel and try it
> anyway, then again, maybe not. Right -now I'm thinking about
> using a wood prop and maybe using the CS cowl since it is suspose
> to be shorter and not require the extension. I don't -know if
> this really works in practice, though. Any body know for sure?
Matt, good to hear from you, I was wondering last week what happened
to our group. I think you're right on the heater, might as well
use some of what my 0360 is developing.
Props: a local 6A builder ordered a Warnke prop, which fared pretty
well in Van's prop testing. He also ordered a custom built prop
extension that has a larger diameter compression area designed
specifically for wood props on higher horsepower engines. The
prop and ext. total about $1k, which isn't bad. His name is Norm
Rainey in Vancouver, WA. I can get his addr and Phone # if you
want. I think the shorter cowl might detract from the overall
appearance (snub nosed?).
> Also, since I have a pre-0360 size cowl, I have to buy a new one
> anyany. - Please pass the word around that I have a 320 rv-4 cowl
> I'd like to sell. - Its unused and is in like new condition. A
> new one from Van's is about $350.00 w/ cheek extensions and I'd be
> willing to make someone a good deal on mine.
> Matt Dralle RV-4
Progress: Not alot, am installing an electric rudder trim so now I
have 3 axis electric trim (probably overkill, but what the hell!).
Picked-up fuselage kit yesterday. Yay! Standard canopy, electric
flaps. I didn't realize that the elevator trim cable and mounts
were a part of the standard fuse kit, so I returned them for
almost $70 in credit. That brings the elec elevator trim down to
about $50. I liked that! So if any of you did elec elev trim, be
sure to request deletion of those parts when you order your fuse.
Rivet on! don wentz, RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: matts progress rept |
>>
>> I think Lewis Aviation sells an aluminum extension for the O360. Charges
>> $325 for them. You might want to ask about them. 503/640-0505
>>
>
>Hey great tip, thanks! Geeze, $325?? For a hunk of metal? Guess one could
>say that about the whole plane though, huh? Hee hee - NOT.
>
>Matt Dralle
>
Matt: Check with Flight Craft too. C-172 have an O-360 conversion so
I'm sure they go though the same thing with the prop extension.
Chris.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle (Matthew G. Dralle 510-422-4896) |
uunet!ccm.hf.intel.com!Don_Wentz@lll-winken.llnl.gov
| Subject: | Re: re: Re: matts progress rept |
> > Yeah, this prop thing is kind of a pain. I was planning on using
> > the new fixed pitch metal prop that Van's is having made. I found
> > out, -however, that it is only for the 320 and is definatly *not*
> > recommended for -the 360. I may just be a rebel and try it
> > anyway, then again, maybe not. Right -now I'm thinking about
> > using a wood prop and maybe using the CS cowl since it is suspose
> > to be shorter and not require the extension. I don't -know if
> > this really works in practice, though. Any body know for sure?
> Matt, good to hear from you, I was wondering last week what happened
> to our group. I think you're right on the heater, might as well
> use some of what my 0360 is developing.
>
> Props: a local 6A builder ordered a Warnke prop, which fared pretty
> well in Van's prop testing. He also ordered a custom built prop
> extension that has a larger diameter compression area designed
> specifically for wood props on higher horsepower engines. The
> prop and ext. total about $1k, which isn't bad. His name is Norm
> Rainey in Vancouver, WA. I can get his addr and Phone # if you
> want. I think the shorter cowl might detract from the overall
> appearance (snub nosed?).
>
Sure, sent me his phone number. I'd like to talk to him about his experiences
with the prop. Is he actually flying with it yet?
Matt Dralle
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: matts progress rept |
>Cessna 172s don't use a prop extension though, do they?
>
>Matt
Yea, they do... The ones on the O-320 is about 4 inches thick. I'm not sure
about the extension used with the O-360... I've never inspected a 172 with
on O-360 in it, But I know there are a number of them about.
I think there is a company in the central valley Insight Aviation??? That
may do the conversions - at anyrate they would be a good sorce to contact.
Sorry, I don't have a phone number on hand.
Chris.
________________________________________________________________________________
Matt:
I think I'm going to build the Rocky Mountain Engine Monitoring system,
like you did. I got a few questions for you:
1). Did you buy all the external sensors for the unit?
2). What did the hole thing cost?
3). How long did it take you to build it?
4). Can you test it without the engine present?
(Simulated environment)
5). Is the screen back lit for night time viewing?
Thanks,
Chris.
________________________________________________________________________________
rv-list%matronics.com(at)juts.ccc.amdahl.com
| Subject: | Re: Rocky Mountain |
> Subject: Rocky Mountain
>
> Matt:
>
> I think I'm going to build the Rocky Mountain Engine Monitoring system,
> like you did. I got a few questions for you:
Do it! Check the alt/vsi/air-speed/mode-C unit out as well. Way cool.
Excellent quality in both cases. Instructions are A+, operation (as much as
I can test at this point) are A+.
>
> 1). Did you buy all the external sensors for the unit?
Not yet. Looks like about another ~$500 for all possible sensors. This
includes carb temp, MP, cyl head temp, fuel flow, and some other things I can't
remember right now.
> 2). What did the hole thing cost?
I think the Engine Monitor is about $995.00 + additional sensors mentioned
above. Probably about what you'd pay if you bought all of the functionality in
standard instruments. Far less panel space though. Also, "way-cooler" in the
immortal word of Wayne and Garth.
The Alt/vsi/air-speed/mode-C unit is $799 and comes with all sensors.
> 3). How long did it take you to build it?
Not all that long, actually. The kits are *very* good and as mentioned before
the instruction manuals are very good. I would guess you could build it in
a day with out much trouble.
> 4). Can you test it without the engine present?
> (Simulated environment)
Not really, although the sensors all function and you can read things like
temps, etc. The engine monitor is not particularly configurable in a
"computer front panel" sense. The alt/vsi/air-speed/mode-C on the other hand
is quite a flexible in the programming dept. It allows you to set "airspace
zones", for example, and will warn you if you exceed the limits on either side.
It has a lot of other features that are too numerous to mention.
> 5). Is the screen back lit for night time viewing?
Yes, most definately. I'm not exactly sure how it works, but there is a
electrostatic plate of sorts behind the LCD panel. When activated
(switchable), a pleasant green glow makes the display very readable. The
intensity is variable. The alt/etc./etc. uses the same type of display, but
has a really slick way of turning on/off/dimming via the front panel controls.
The engine monitor uses a seprate, panel mounted switch, as I recall.
Both units are very high quality and given the price of aircraft supplies in
general, are very reasonably priced. I highly recommend them both.
No, I don't get any kick backs from Rocky Moutain Inst.!!!
Matt Dralle
RV-4 #1763.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rocky Mountain |
Yea....
I think I'm set on getting the Engine Monitoring unit, It really
looks like a good deal. I've decided against the alt/vsi/ect... unit since
I'm making my bird IFR and I need the anchient analog stuff to keep my san-
ity!!
I priced out if you bought the cheapest analog guages which are built
in features of the Rocky Road E.M.S. you'd spend more then the $1500.00 it
cost you for the system. When I got their broshure last year It didn't say
if the systems were backlit... So that is Way Cool!!
I'm Sold...
Chris.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Morrissey +61 6 276 6811 <John.Morrissey(at)mis.csiro.au> |
| Subject: | Re: Rocky Mountian |
Hi fella's
I've been checking out the discusion on the "Rocky Mountian" Boxes.
Can you tell me who to write to for further info on the Engine box.
They sound pretty good! As an electronics tech I don't think they
should be to hard to build. By the way does anybody know of a good
source of 'Kit' Radio's. I'm looking for a basic 720 channel radio
for my project.
Happy riviting!!
John morrissey
VH-??? RV4
VH-HRV RV6
VH-JSP Jodel D11.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rocky Mountain Instruments |
Gee Whiz, I was just last night playing around with various panel
layouts, costs of instruments for my RV-4... I plan on using both of
the RMI instruments as well.
I wonder if there is any way we can organize a group discount here.
I count 3 just in this group (so far) planning on using their product.
Do you suppose that if we could also include RV builder groups .. we
could come up with enough volume to save us all some money??
I would be happy to call them if there is sufficient interest --
can't hurt to try.
Steve Harris
steveha(at)tekig5.PEN.TEK.COM
N6720B
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bang!bam(at)nosc.mil (Bret A. Marquis) |
| Subject: | Re: Rocky Mountain Instruments |
I think Avionics Review or Aviation Consumer did a review on their
box a while back. I don't rememeber the details but do recall
that positioning is critical. You might want to look at one
before deciding where to put one in your panel.
Anyone in the group actually have one that could say something
about its display?
Bret
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle (Matthew G. Dralle 510-422-4896) |
| Subject: | Re: Rocky Mountian |
>
> Hi fella's
> I've been checking out the discusion on the "Rocky Mountian" Boxes.
> Can you tell me who to write to for further info on the Engine box.
> They sound pretty good! As an electronics tech I don't think they
> should be to hard to build. By the way does anybody know of a good
> source of 'Kit' Radio's. I'm looking for a basic 720 channel radio
> for my project.
> Happy riviting!!
> John morrissey
> VH-??? RV4
> VH-HRV RV6
> VH-JSP Jodel D11.
>
>
RMI advertises quite a bit in the Sport Aviation. Check it out there. I will
try to remember to bring the info in tomorrow...
I'm an e-tech as well and from that point of view, the kit was a snap!
As far as kit built aircraft radios... Stick with a nice King KY96A or
something. I don't know of any kit radios that are really any good. Certainly
nothing that is small.
Matt Dralle
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle (Matthew G. Dralle 510-422-4896) |
| Subject: | Re: Rocky Mountain Instruments |
> I think Avionics Review or Aviation Consumer did a review on their
> box a while back. I don't rememeber the details but do recall
> that positioning is critical. You might want to look at one
> before deciding where to put one in your panel.
>
> Anyone in the group actually have one that could say something
> about its display?
>
>
> Bret
>
>
Yes, I have both units. I think that you mean the angle of viewing with
regard to the LCD display? Yes, it is a bit critical. Not too bad, though.
I have planned them to be mounted right at eye level, so it isn't a problem
in my application.
Matt Dralle
________________________________________________________________________________
ub-gate!shogun.pen.tek.com!steveha
| Subject: | Re: Rocky Mountain Instruments |
> Subject: Re: Rocky Mountain Instruments
>
> Gee Whiz, I was just last night playing around with various panel
> layouts, costs of instruments for my RV-4... I plan on using both of
> the RMI instruments as well.
>
> I wonder if there is any way we can organize a group discount here.
> I count 3 just in this group (so far) planning on using their product.
> Do you suppose that if we could also include RV builder groups .. we
> could come up with enough volume to save us all some money??
>
> I would be happy to call them if there is sufficient interest --
> can't hurt to try.
>
> Steve Harris
> steveha(at)tekig5.PEN.TEK.COM
> N6720B
>
I all ready have my units, but that does sound like a good idea. You might
also want to talk with Van's about it. He may be able to put something in
the next rv-ator if you could work some kind of quanity deal with RMI. I've
talked with the owner of RMI and he is a really nice guy. I have a feeling
that his proft margin may be kind of small; can't say for sure though.
Matt Dralle
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | steveha(at)shogun.pen.tek.com (Steven L Harris) |
| Subject: | Re: Rocky Mountain Instruments |
Well, I talked to RMI this morning. 2 Items of interest, First, the
price on the Encoder kit is going up $50 tomorrow to $849.00, the price of
the monitor is remaining at $969.00. 2nd, he is willing to give a
nominal discount for group orders. Here's the deal: Buy 5 or more (any
combination of monitor/encoder) and you get $50 per instrument discount.
Not a huge savings, but not too bad either. The instruments really are
pretty reasonably priced for what you get. I'm not sure how we could
arrange payment, shipping ... but if there is sufficient interest, I
will pursue figuring it out.
RMI phone number is (307) 864-9300.
Monitor: $969, does things like oil press, oil temp, fuel flow (totalizer
functions), tachometer, egt, cht, oat, carb temp, timers ....
comes with a few of the sensors, have to buy things like egt,
cht probes and fuel flow sensor.
Encoder: $849, replaces encoder for xpdr, VSI, airspeed, altimeter, oat,
and what you can calculate from static, pressure, and temp
such as pressure alt, density alt ...
Steve Harris
steveha(at)tekig5.PEN.TEK.COM
(503) 627-2454 WK
(503) 324-8131 HM
N6720B, short wing piper for now, RV4 someday.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rocky Mountain Instruments |
Steve:
I'd be interested in getting in a group purchase of the units - I only
want the Engine Monitoring System - But I don't want to by it now... and not
be able to fully test it till a few years down the line when I got the engine
in my plane.
Chris.
RV-6 #21390
1 year down
-----------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | GRACELY(at)YODA.NIDR.NIH.GOV |
| Subject: | Rocky Mountain Group Purchase |
I am also interested in the Rocky Mountain Boxes. I hope they will
still be in business when my plane is ready.
Anyone interested in a group 1996 purchase?
Rick RV-6 #20494
Its down so far it looks like up to me.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rocky Mountain Instruments |
If you can get a discount, I'll use one...
don wentz
Gee Whiz, I was just last night playing around with various panel
layouts, costs of instruments for my RV-4... I plan on using both of
the RMI instruments as well.
I wonder if there is any way we can organize a group discount here.
I count 3 just in this group (so far) planning on using their product.
Do you suppose that if we could also include RV builder groups .. we
could come up with enough volume to save us all some money??
I would be happy to call them if there is sufficient interest --
can't hurt to try.
Steve Harris
steveha(at)tekig5.PEN.TEK.COM
N6720B
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | steveha(at)tailslide.pen.tek.com (Steven L Harris) |
| Subject: | Rocky Mountain Instruments |
I have received a few people that were interested in purchasing
the RMI boxes, but not enough to qualify for the discount and most
didn't want them just yet. I am also collecting names through our
local RV builders group. I suggest that when somebody is ready to
purchase, we try and group our purchases to get the discount -- 50
bucks is 50 bucks you could spend on something else for your RV
Steve
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle (Matthew G. Dralle 510-422-4896) |
| Subject: | Lyc Engine Parts... |
Hello Fellow RVers!
I've been rebuilding the 0360 I got a couple of weeks ago. I'm getting new
accessories and such which isn't too bad. I've found a number of places that
have that type of thing at a reasonable prices. I need a few other things,
however, that are only available from Lyc. These incluse all the primer lines
and fittings, oil plug, a few bolts here and there, and maybe a gasket or two.
I have a couple of questions. Where's a good place to get Lyc. parts at a
"reasonable" price. I've found that a lot of the parts houses only sell
wholesale. List price for most of those parts truely offends me. Any
recommendations???
Also, I want some chrome rocker covers and possibily intake manifold pipes. Any
ideas on sources for this type of thing??
Thanks-
Matt Dralle
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Rocky Mountain Instruments |
>I am also collecting names through our local RV builders group.
>
>Steve
That's a good Idea, The Bay Area RV builders group is pretty big. I'll
have to see how many will be interested in the idea the next time we meet!
Chris.
RV-6 #21390
San Jose CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | One wing down.... |
Well finally after looking at that left wing in the jig for the last 9
months I got to take it down! Now where to put such a piece of art? I know
the Living room!! Yup I set that puppy up as a display piece, right behind
the couch - Well I do have a roommate to consider, else it might have made a
pretty cool coffee table!
I made just a few alterations to the wing, The OLDS leading edge landing
light was one. His kit looks OK, but it it really is not showplane quality,
If I were to do it again, I'd make the whole thing my self. His lenses are
not formed uniformly, and the backing plate is literally throne together. My
biggest complaint is the placement of the nutplates.... As installed I've got
1 screw 1/8" from the edge and the next almost 1/4". Wish I say that before
I rivited the plate in. Well I got another wing to get things right.
The only other mode I made the left wing was to install a Pitot tube, a
heated one actually. I bought an AN5812 from Chief Aircraft, and visited the
local salvage yard to dig out a mounting bracket, I got one off a cessna 172.
after staring at the wing for a few days I decided the best place to mount it
would be in the leading edge, just forward of the inspection panel - This way
one can get it though holes in the main spare. It turned out real sweet, I
can give more details for those thinking about doing the same thing.... Oh yea
I also ran tygon tubing in the wing for the ram air, instead of the aluminum
tubing that VAN supplies.
I suspect the right wing should go together much faster the the left, But
I'm running low on motivation - What I have to build ANOTHER wing... makes
one really wish airplane only needed one wing to fly!
Chris.
RV-6 #21390
San Jose CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ccrdb(at)manta.jcu.edu.au (Ray Belbin) |
| Subject: | Lucky bugger...tygon tubing |
Chris,
congradulations on completing your first wing - that's one wing
more than I've started! I'm just curious about this tygon tubing. What
is it and what does it do for you?
> I also ran tygon tubing in the wing for the ram air, instead of the aluminum
> tubing that VAN supplies.
>
> Chris.
> RV-6 #21390
> San Jose CA
thanks
Ray Belbin
RV6A (tail building)
________________________________________________________________________________
>
> Chris,
> congradulations on completing your first wing - that's one wing
> more than I've started! I'm just curious about this tygon tubing. What
> is it and what does it do for you?
>
> > I also ran tygon tubing in the wing for the ram air, instead of the alumin
> > tubing that VAN supplies.
>
> thanks
> Ray Belbin
> RV6A (tail building)
>
Ray,
I guess Tygon is the type of material that the tubing is made out of...
It looks just polyurethane tube, But I guess it's aviation grade, you know
MORE EXPENSIVE! Actually I don't think it cost too much more. I was going to
use the aluminum tubing that VAN supplies but but a small piece of Tygon on
the end near the pitot tube (it needs to be pliable so you can take it in and
out) but I figured it would be better to get one long piece... no splices and
I could run it all the way up to the airspeed indicator with 100 times more
ease then bending all the AU tube.
Chris.
RV-6 #21390
San Jose CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bang!bam(at)nosc.mil (Bret A. Marquis) |
---Message-Id: <9204210109.AA23293(at)bang.noname>
FAA inspected my Venture today. Failed on 1 minor paper work
nit and one mechanical one.
The paper work one was the W&B. The inspector is one of the old style
FAA dudes. Always trying to find ways of making it work or proceed
rather than just complaining. We did the W&B meticulously and he just
didn't like the way it came out (10 inches too far forward). We showed
him the factory paper work and finally called the factory and ran into
on of those "Oh, you must have the old documentation. We have a new
data for you you. The datum is 6.58th inch 'in front of' the spinner,
not 'at' the spinner like we told you before. Now we're tail heavy but
well within limits..
The mechanical item was an interesting one. He doesn't like the fact
that there is no way to unlock the the canopy from the outside in the
event of trouble. Told us to come up with a better scheme. He's right
when you look at it. Even if the plane landed right side up, if the
pilot was unconscious, rescuers would have to use a fire axe on it.
Interesting he caught something that the factory and all the other
flying Ventures consider normal..
Otherwise, he was impressed with the workmanship. Loved the panel and
the wiring harnesses. He plans to return on thursday for final review.
This particular inspector was just great. Made the adage 'I'm from the
FAA, I'm here to help', much less a joke. The inspection was thorough,
pleasant and quite the learning experience. Not at all what I
expected.
Bret Marquis
----- End Included Message -----
________________________________________________________________________________
> The mechanical item was an interesting one. He doesn't like the fact
> that there is no way to unlock the the canopy from the outside in the
> event of trouble. Told us to come up with a better scheme. He's right
> when you look at it. Even if the plane landed right side up, if the
> pilot was unconscious, rescuers would have to use a fire axe on it.
>
> Bret Marquis
>
That's kind of made me think a bit. Actually there are quite a few air-
planes like that.... Take a Cessna 172 for example... Once you through the
arm forward to the LOCK position you can't open it from the outside!! I'm
putting the sliding canopy on my RV-6 and that will have a center lock like
a Tomahawk... operable from both sides!
Chris.
RV-6 #21390
San Jose CA
________________________________________________________________________________
>I'm also going to have to mark the dipsticks for the new fuel tanks, sinc
>I moved the filler caps to a slightly more forward position.
>
>Let the fly-ins begin!!
>
>Ed "enough fixing, back to flying!" Wischmeyer
>
Ed:
So, you say you moved the filler caps forward on your ARSA fighter.
Is there an advantage in this that I should consider before I drill the
holes in my tanks skins?
Just a wondering
Chris.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Morrissey +61 6 276 6811 <John.Morrissey(at)mis.csiro.au> |
Gidday everyone!
Well Rv fever has struck the national Capital of Australia again!
A mate of mine has sent off his order for a RV6 tail and wing kit.
He has a couple of questions that I thought I'd sent to the group.
1. Any suggestions on the sources of tools for the project? I seem
to remember some supplier I read about that offered a complete
homebuilders metalwork kit that had everything including riverters
bucking bars etc. Anybody else seen this kit?
2. Opinions, good or bad on the sliding canopy version of the RV6?
We have the standard version fitted to the RV6 and it looks great
but tends to move about a lot in the wind although it has never
suffered any damage even in winds up to 20kts as yet.
hope to see some of you at Oshkosh
regards John Morrissey
VH-HRV RV6
VH-JSP Jodel D11
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | moody(at)cyclone.mitre.org (John C. Moody) |
| Subject: | reply to john morrissey |
John, regarding the tools, you may want to take a look at the survey
van tabulated that i think was printed in the last rvator. I remember
Avery came out pretty good, at least i've been pleased with their stuff.
As for sliding canopy, i've opted for it and have all the hardware, but
as i'm just starting the fuse, have no insight into hard the job is.
I did see allan tolles at an rv forum in my neighborhood.
It looked good but it does seem
that there is probably a weight and drag penalty with the slider. The
joints where canopy meets the fuse don't seem as clean as the stock
canopy (i.e. lap rather than but joints) and the
the access handle sticks up in the breeze on top.
I also opted for the separate windscreen and in retrospect would have
gotten the tinted canopy to keep things cooler
since windscreen will be untinted.
Chris Moody, RV6
________________________________________________________________________________
>
> 2. Opinions, good or bad on the sliding canopy version of the RV6?
> We have the standard version fitted to the RV6 and it looks great
> but tends to move about a lot in the wind although it has never
> suffered any damage even in winds up to 20kts as yet.
>
This is a real hang-up decision for me... and I'll have to decide soon
when I order my Fuselage Kit. I really like the sliding canopy, It looks
good and works great. But I really hate the idea of adding extra weight
and drag to my airplane. Then again the thought of water dripping in adds
another ding in the tilt canopy....
Chris.
RV-6 #21390
San Jose CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ccrdb(at)manta.jcu.edu.au (Ray Belbin) |
John,
I've not yet ordered the canopy for my 6A yet. But I was in
Ballina (Australia) a few months back talking to Mike Davis at the
Lancair factory. He said that most people were now opting for 'flip lid'
canopies on their Lancairs because of difficulties fitting their sliding
canopies. As you know, this is probably the least of their problems!
Ray Belbin
RV6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | (Mark Richardson) <richards(at)hawk.nstn.ns.ca> |
| Subject: | Joining the list |
Hi ya,
I recently bought a partially completed RV-6, and then had the good fortune
to communicate via E-mail wih John Morrisey 'down under' who informed me
about this group. Could you please signed me up ?
Thanks
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | How 'bout more info. |
> Hi ya,
>
> I recently bought a partially completed RV-6, and then had the good fortune
> to communicate via E-mail wih John Morrisey 'down under' who informed me
> about this group. Could you please signed me up ?
>
> Thanks
>
> Mark
Mark:
Glad to here you made such a GOOD purchase. So, how far along is your
RV-6. Myself I've just started wing number 2. Also where is your project
at, Australia?
Welcome Aboard,
Chris.
RV-6 #21390
San Jose CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle (Matthew G. Dralle 510-422-4896) |
| Subject: | New RV-List Member... |
Please welcome Mark Richardson to the rv-list. Mark, please tell the group a
little bit about yourself and your project.
Also, could you send me you paper mail address and phone number, as I'm
keeping a database of such things on the rv-list members. Send it directly
to me if you like at dralle(at)matronics.com(.)
Matt Dralle
RV-4
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | (Mark Richardson) <richards(at)hawk.nstn.ns.ca> |
| Subject: | RE:New RV-List Member... |
dralle(at)matronics.com (Matthew G. Dralle 510-422 writes:
>
>Please welcome Mark Richardson to the rv-list. Mark, please tell the group a
>little bit about yourself and your project.
>
>Also, could you send me you paper mail address and phone number, as I'm
>keeping a database of such things on the rv-list members. Send it directly
>to me if you like at dralle(at)matronics.com(.)
>
>Matt Dralle
>RV-4
Hi folks,
My name is Mark Richardson and I am a computer weinie from Halifax, Nova
Scotia, Canada. I have been flying since 1980 and have been drooling over
homebuilts since about 1986.
I finally decided on the RV-6 after a friend started building the RV-4. I
would have built a -4 myself but my shoulders are too wide (sort of matches
the rest of me) for the cockpit.
I recently bought the tail feathers, plans, manual, and tools from a guy
in nearby Dartmouth, Nova Scotia. He gave me a great deal (about $1500 Cdn
off his cost) so now I just need to get the wing kit and get started.
Mark
P.S. for Matt -- Mark Richardson
94 Sandrick Ave
Lower Sackville, N.S.
Canada, B4C 3X9
**********************************************************************
Mark Richardson Software Kinetics Ltd
Project Engineer Voice: 902-468-3680
richards(at)hawk.nstn.ns.ca Fax: 902-468-3679
**********************************************************************
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Morrissey +61 6 276 6811 <John.Morrissey(at)mis.csiro.au> |
Hi fella's
Thanks to all those who sent me mail about Tool suppliers!
How about this for responce - I rang Avery and asked for a
catalog and I had one in the letterbox here in Australia four
days latter. My mate was very impressed and he has since ordered
a couple of thousand dollars (Aust) worth of tools. It was nice
looking through the catalog and spending someone else's money
for once. We are getting quite a little group of builders here
in Canberra Australia. I've managed to talk another guy into
buying an RV6 kit. Its a pity I don't get a commission. That
makes a grand total of Three RV's under construction here in Canberra
with a possible extra two in the near future.
See ya later
John Morrissey
________________________________________________________________________________
> We are getting quite a little group of builders here
> in Canberra Australia. I've managed to talk another guy into
> buying an RV6 kit. Its a pity I don't get a commission. That
> makes a grand total of Three RV's under construction here in Canberra
> with a possible extra two in the near future.
Hmmm, I don't know if my memory serves me justice or not but didn't
Van make mension to some sort of Commission for sealing kits in one of
the RVators about a year back?? I know Van does offer the Discount
for repeat offenders!
Chris.
RV-6 #21390
San Jose CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Fuel Tank Skins... |
Here is a question for those of you how are bulding RV wings or have
built them in the past... I got my wing kit a little less then a year ago
I'm wondering if Van's maybe had a run of wrong size skins.... Seems my
tank skins were both about 3/16" too long. As a result I have vut them
shorter to meet the plans spec, but I'm not sure 100% if the bend line are
exactly were they should be. Not that it matters much since they seem to
line up nicely with the leading edge skin on both wings. Has anyone else
had to shorten there tank skins??
Chris.
________________________________________________________________________________
Ops here is another question about the fuel tank skins.... On my plans
it says to Machine Counter sink the forward screws. At first I thought that
I was too M/C the skin??? But do they mean to machine counter sink the
baffle & spare flange, and Dimple the skin?? That seems like a better Idea
Question then.. Is there enough material there to do that. What thickness
is required for a #8 Screw.
Chris.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RE: Fuel Tank Skins |
>
> Arggg.... Mine were about 3/16 too short, maybe a little less. Are sure yo
> were really too long...
>
> Matt
>
YES! can't remember the exact measurement off the top of my head, but ac-
cording to the SK drawing with all the numbers... Anyway I can remember pe-
ople tellling me they really had to CRANK down hard on all there leading edge
skins to make them reach. I guess I should be glad I got extras!!
Matt... Did you have to get other skins? Or did you just move the main
skins forward??
Chris.
________________________________________________________________________________
rv-list%matronics.com(at)juts.ccc.amdahl.com
| Subject: | RE: Fuel Tank Skins |
>
> >
> > Arggg.... Mine were about 3/16 too short, maybe a little less. Are sure yo
> > were really too long...
> >
> > Matt
> >
>
> YES! can't remember the exact measurement off the top of my head, but ac-
> cording to the SK drawing with all the numbers... Anyway I can remember pe-
> ople tellling me they really had to CRANK down hard on all there leading edge
> skins to make them reach. I guess I should be glad I got extras!!
>
> Matt... Did you have to get other skins? Or did you just move the main
> skins forward??
>
> Chris.
>
Can't really remember. I did use the original skins, though. 3/16 may be an
exaggeration, but it wasn't really to pleasent getting it to fit.
Matt
________________________________________________________________________________
I would like to subscribe to the RV mail list. please put me
on the list or let me know what I need to do.
Randall Henderson
503 690-1234
randall(at)edt.com
________________________________________________________________________________
HOT.... and loving it!!
I'll be in Merced by the time most you read this
Thursday posting. I hope to got a spot on the runway sidlines so I can
catch all the RV's flying in!!!
BTW: Has anyone given any thought about the *NEW* rudder peddals for the
RV-6/RV-6A? I don't like the idea of the interfearing with the prop gover-
nor. I really think I'd prefer the old floor mounts.
MATT: Since the Senceich (sp?) Metal prop is now available do you plan on
hanging it your -4?? I guess it has a few pounds over a wood prop so it
might even help out you CG!
Chris.
RV-6 #21390
San Jose CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle (Matthew G. Dralle 510-422-4896) |
>
> MATT: Since the Senceich (sp?) Metal prop is now available do you plan on
> hanging it your -4?? I guess it has a few pounds over a wood prop so it
> might even help out you CG!
>
Negative on the metal prop for a couple of reasons. First, you can't use it on
a O360 (180hp) engine, which I have. Second, there just seem to be too many
limitations with it. 2600 max RPM is pretty unacceptable in my book. The O360
is rated at 180hp at 2700 rpm. Looks like awood screw is going to have to do.
Actually, I've been hearing about a new wood 3-blade prop that sounds pretty
hot. Much quieter, and better performance than the equivalent 2-blade. Does
anyone have any info??
Matt Dralle
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | New 3 Blade Prop. |
>
> Negative on the metal prop for a couple of reasons. First, you can't use it
> a O360 (180hp) engine, which I have. Second, there just seem to be too many
> limitations with it. 2600 max RPM is pretty unacceptable in my book. The O
> is rated at 180hp at 2700 rpm. Looks like awood screw is going to have to d
>
Opps... Thought your were doing a 160 HP -4.
> Actually, I've been hearing about a new wood 3-blade prop that sounds pretty
> hot. Much quieter, and better performance than the equivalent 2-blade. Doe
> anyone have any info??
>
> Matt Dralle
>
I was set on a Constant Speed prop, Since I want my RV to be IFR capable and
wood props aren't too found of the rain... But the other day at Merced I got
blasted, me and about 20 RV's, by a not so thinking RV pilot and his new 3
bladed Composit prop when he decided to taxi in the dirt instead of push/pull
his airplane. At any rate the prop is made in CA by a guy named Catto. He
makes some racing props for formula 1 Reno Racers and came up with a real
nice 3 blade for the RV. It's 60 x 80 !!! Real Small, Very Quit, and looks
like real good performance specs. I think I may have been converted for the
days of C/S....
Some of the specs, It's flying on an RV-6 with an O-360-A1A 180 Hp. It
yields a cruse speed of 192 MPH @ 2500 rpm, and a top speed of 206 MPH @ 2700
RPM (Calibrated air speed) The climb rate is 1200 FPM @ 145 MPH and a re-
corded nest rate of climb of 2000 FPM.
I got and address and Telephone number at home, I'm not sure of the price
on this prop but the guy with the RV said it would probably be around $900.00
Chris.
RV-6 #21390
San Jose CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edtipx.edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
Just joined this group, thought I'd introduce myself.
I'm not quite yet a builder, but I expect to get started on an RV6
within a month. I've had the plans for a few months, am just wrapping
up a load of domestic projects so I can get started.
I've been mostly a spam-can flyer so far, have been flying for around
7 years mostly in Cessnas, but with about 20 hrs in old beat up
Aeroncas and T-craft. Owned a C-175 for a couple of years (1/2 share),
lately its just rental C-152s and 172s. I'm used to being able to take
out the back seat and throwing all the tents, sleeping bags, bicycles and
camping gear that I need into the back, so I expect to have to get used to
the idea of a much smaller payload. I don't mind having to get used to
flying half again as fast though!
But first I have to build it.....
Randall Henderson
P.S. I just picked up the three Tony Bingelis books (Sportplane Builder,
Firewall Forward, etc). Does anyone have any recommendations for other
books they feel are indispensable for a first time builder on this kind
of project?
________________________________________________________________________________
rv-list%matronics.com(at)juts.ccc.amdahl.com
| Subject: | Re: New 3 Blade Prop. |
>
> > Actually, I've been hearing about a new wood 3-blade prop that sounds pretty
> > hot. Much quieter, and better performance than the equivalent 2-blade. Doe
> > anyone have any info??
> >
> > Matt Dralle
> >
>
> I was set on a Constant Speed prop, Since I want my RV to be IFR capable and
> wood props aren't too found of the rain... But the other day at Merced I got
> blasted, me and about 20 RV's, by a not so thinking RV pilot and his new 3
> bladed Composit prop when he decided to taxi in the dirt instead of push/pull
> his airplane. At any rate the prop is made in CA by a guy named Catto. He
> makes some racing props for formula 1 Reno Racers and came up with a real
> nice 3 blade for the RV. It's 60 x 80 !!! Real Small, Very Quit, and looks
> like real good performance specs. I think I may have been converted for the
> days of C/S....
>
> Some of the specs, It's flying on an RV-6 with an O-360-A1A 180 Hp. It
> yields a cruse speed of 192 MPH @ 2500 rpm, and a top speed of 206 MPH @ 2700
> RPM (Calibrated air speed) The climb rate is 1200 FPM @ 145 MPH and a re-
> corded nest rate of climb of 2000 FPM.
>
> I got and address and Telephone number at home, I'm not sure of the price
> on this prop but the guy with the RV said it would probably be around $900.00
>
> Chris.
> RV-6 #21390
> San Jose CA
Humm, sounds pretty good, although the climb seems a little lack-luster
considering a 180hp. Cruse and Max are impressive. I also like the
quietness - a lot. I suppose a 60" dia prop looks kind of dorkey, though huh?
'Suppose it'd be good for wheel landings though. Please pass along
anymore info you have or get.
This might be just the prop I've been looking for. I wonder if they could make
it in a, say, 67x75 or something.
Matt Dralle
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RE: New 3 Blade Prop. |
> Humm, sounds pretty good, although the climb seems a little lack-luster
> considering a 180hp. Cruse and Max are impressive. I also like the
> quietness - a lot. I suppose a 60" dia prop looks kind of dorkey, though h
> 'Suppose it'd be good for wheel landings though. Please pass along
> anymore info you have or get.
>
Actually the clib is pretty good, I think VAN rates Vy at 105 MPH... The prop
data I have was climb at 145 MPH, Much different.... Also the prop dat gives
a Vx, Best rate, of 2000 FPM. VAN has Vx in the 160 HP RV-6 as 1600 or so.
> This might be just the prop I've been looking for. I wonder if they could m
> it in a, say, 67x75 or something.
>
> Matt Dralle
>
The composite prop made by CATTO props is made with a birch wood center
laminated with Fiberglas material. The prop can be made in any configur-
ation you desire. The only draw back is you can not repitch the prop if
the pitch is too high, as with a wood prop. All you can do is clip the
tips, and make it shorter.
BTW, I kinda like the SHORT prop from the stand point of wheel landings!
and it's much quitter! :) It's not too noticeably short since there are
three blades instead of two. I'll try and dig up an address tonight.
Chris.
RV-6 #21390
San Jose CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Information tips |
> P.S. I just picked up the three Tony Bingelis books (Sportplane Builder,
> Firewall Forward, etc). Does anyone have any recommendations for other
> books they feel are indispensable for a first time builder on this kind
> of project?
>
Join the EAA, most local chapters have a library of books that you can borrow
also you'll get Sport Aviation... Almost a must for RV builders since for
the past year or so there have been articles on engine installs / weight
and balance / batteries / exhaust .... in all the articles the author was
building an RV!!
Chris.
RV-6 #21390
San Jose CA
________________________________________________________________________________
rv-list%matronics.com(at)juts.ccc.amdahl.com
| Subject: | Re: Information tips |
Chris mentions "the past year or so" of _Sport Aviation_ as useful for
building RV's, but Tony Bingelis' RV-related columns actually go back
quite a bit farther. A list of topics I collated:
Year: 1988
Month Page Topic
JAN 24 RV-6 "fat wings"
31 Rivet gun notes
MAY 27 Planning the Instrument Panel
JUN 27 Sealing Riveted RV-4 fuel tanks
JUL 27 Wiring
AUG 27 Pitot/Static system & altitude encoders
SEP 27 Homemade tools, shop racks
OCT 43 Disposable paint booth
33 Using Adhesives, part 1
NOV 17 RV-6 Intro (Tony begins a new plane...)
29 Using Adhesives, part 2
DEC 27 Wing tip design
Year: 1989
Month Page Topic
APR 28 How to drill holes in aluminum
MAY 36 How to make firewall grommet shields
JUN 30 Tony's RV-6 Project...or tips for the Metal A/C builder
JUL 27 Engine installation
AUG 27 Engine hook-up tips
OCT 21 Grand Champion RV-4 article
NOV 37 Priming and painting small parts
Year: 1990
Month Page Topic
JAN 29 Choosing an engine and prop
FEB 29 Fabricating engine baffles
MAR 29 Brake line fittings, drilling stainless steel firewall,
radio stack opening, general RV-6 assembly notes
APR 37 Designing the electrical system, part 1
MAY 29 Designing the electrical system, part 2 - wiring tips
JUN 33 Designing the electrical system, part 3 - more tips
JUL 33 Setting up the shop - which tools and why
AUG 28 Carving foam seats for the RV-6
SEP 29 Painting, part 1: preparation for priming
OCT 37 Painting, part 2: inside vs. outside, paint types
NOV 33 Painting, part 3: doing it
DEC 29 Engine compartment tips; heat shielding the fuel system
Year: 1991
Month Page Topic
JAN 71 Wooden props
FEB 42 Landing gear notes, wheel pants
MAR 41 Cockpit ventilation
APR 65 Looking for an engine (has picture of completed RV6
firewall & engine mount)
JUN 37 Easier metal work -- forming RV-6 ribs
NOV 84 Fiberglass fairings
DEC 82 Fiberglass fairings, part 2
...still not building an RV, but compiled this list when it seemed more
likely I would start than now (bought a house, moved to an island, and
am air commuting instead of RV building).
Dan Masys
Skylane spamcan driver
________________________________________________________________________________
Well a little on the slow side, but here is the Address and Phone to
Catto Aircraft Inc...
By the way, These are the guys that designed the 3 bladed Constant Speed
Composit that set the record at the Sun 100 last year (in the Lancair IV)
Propeller Design/Engineering/Manufacturing - Composite Specialist
Catto Aircraft Inc.
P.O. Box 1104
San Andreas, CA 95249
(209) 754-3553
Chris.
RV-6 #21390
San Jose CA
________________________________________________________________________________
Hello builders,
I thought I might update everyone on my RV-6 progress. Here's where
my projects's at.
Empenage (manual trim) done, tips bonded, light coat of DeSoto primer.
A little more light sanding of the primer and they'll be ready for storage
and (someday) finish. Main wing spar and bulkhead is done, and a few rib
lightning holes are cut. After finishing the tail metal work, I still hadn't
done anything fancy, special, or different (not even electric trim). So I
decided to try bonding the tips with Proseal per the alternative method
mentioned in the builder's manual. Don Wentz donated a little Proseal
left over from his tanks and I mixed up several small batches of the
stuff over several evenings using Don's balance scale. My goal was
not to make the seam between the skin and tips invisible, but rather
try something different from the pop rivets. I had no intention of
trying to hide the seam because I think it looks just fine on a metal
airplane. I used some of the scraps from the trim bundle to distribute
the clamp pressures evenly across the tip flange / skin overhang for
the duration of the several day drying time.
To sum up the experience, I'm not sure I'd do it again, but I am pleased with
the final result. Proseal is sticky, mucky stuff and it certainly takes more
work than just drilling a few holes and pulling some pop rivets. I also spent
tens of hours grinding and sanding the fiberglass parts to make them fit better,
but I probably would have done that anyway--even if I had riveted them. After
breaking through the gel-coat in several places, it took a couple of coats of
Feather Fill primer to fill the pin holes. In bonding tips, my advice is to
make sure you use lots of Proseal--really cover the stuff and let it squeeze
out under clamping pressure. The seam can be carefully trimmed with a
razor blade after it hardens and then light sanded smooth. (Yes, a
thin line of Proseal does sand pretty well!) I didn't have quite
enough of the stuff in a couple of places on the rudder bottom (the
largest toughest piece), and had to inject some extra goop into a small
gap under air pressure later.
Other discoveries (at least to me):
TAIL:
1. Don't worry too much about trimming stab skins too closely until
you fit up the control surfaces and check for control deflection
limits (specified in the last construction manual chapter under
rigging or something). You'll probably just have to trim a little
more after adjusting the bearing rods to get things to fit with
acceptable and minimal clearances.
2. Pour the balance lead into the inside (root side) counterweight
first. Pour just enough to form a little surface tension "bulge"
so you can grind it flush later with a grinding disc. Pour the
rest in the outside counterweight because it will be hidden by the
tip and will not be visible. Obviously you need to start with a
little extra so you can grind away the small "bulge" to make it
flush and still have it balance.
3. I read in the Portland Builders Group newsletter about using a thin
bucking bar and hammer to drive rivets near the trailing edge of control
surfaces. I wasn't quite ready to attack my project with a hammer
yet (that had to wait for main wing spar riveting), but it did
help me think of another method. I took two thin bucking bars
and placed them face-to-face with the rivet and skin sandwiched between
them. (Boeing surplus has some tiny ones that work great if you grind
them even a little thinner.) The factory head bar should be held
square and flush with the skin and factory head. The shop head bar
is held so that the bars meet at their ends opposite the rivet.
Because the bars are long, the angle is small and doesn't result in
a misdriven shop head. Now hold the bars in your hand and squeeze
REAL HARD!!! Just kidding. For non-Swarzenegger types, a hand
squeezer works better. I used my Tatco squeezer without any sets.
I just put it over the bars as close to the rivet as possible and
squeezed enough to form a standard shop head.
as I could get.
WING: (so far)
4. Spar assembly was easy--certainly not the toughest riveting job
I've had to date. I used the Avery tool pretty much as described
in the last RVator, but I moved the tool past the spar from tip to
root. I didn't even shorten some of the longer ones that were longer
than the minimum spec and the heads formed perfectly. I can't imagine
misdriving a rivet with this tool unless impaired by mind-altering
intoxicants. This is good because if you did misdrive one, I don't
think you could remove it without significantly enlarging the hole.
5. Don't prime inside the close tolerance bolts holes before final (wet primer)
assembly or the bolts won't fit. Use some white grease or something in
the holes or you'll be cleaning the primer out later. (Painstaking
with the Desoto epoxy.) Even clean, I put my bolts in the freezer before
fitting them temporarily for spar riveting. I spent most of my time
priming all those parts with their various angles, corners and edges.
Maybe sending the part out for anodizing would save a builder a
lot of time. I don't know how much anodizing would cost, but I'm sure
anyone that does sailboat masts could handle it easy.
6. Be careful in the stiffener angle / web lightning hole overlap area.
The stiffener only overlaps the lightning hole a little so you
might want to make one lightning hole slightly smaller. I moved one
stiffener rivet slightly off center to get better edge clearance from
the lightning hole.
7. AN470/426-4-11 rivets fit better than the -12's in the kit. The plans
specify -11's and I have no idea why Van's ships 12's. Because I didn't
want to cut and dress so many rivets, I got some 11's.
8. At first I was paranoid about not getting the factory heads centered
in the die cup in the Avery tool. (The rivet factory heads face down and
are difficult to see with the spar on the garage floor.) I eventually
grew confident that if I removed the "whacking rod" and sighted the
rivet down the open tube (shop head side), I could very quickly tell
that the rivet was perfectly centered in the cup.
My progress has improved the last few days. It must have be that RV-6 ride
I got at our last (Portland, OR) RV builder's group meeting. (thanks
to Mike Seager) Having only flown in an RV-4 previously (thanks to
Bill Benedict), I've been wondering what I'm giving up in the six.
For me, I don't feel I'm giving up much in a primarily cross country
airplane. In fact, Mike's O-360 / Hartzell C-S prop has a great "Mooney
on steroids" feel to it.
Bye for now, see you at OSH!
Earl
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ccrdb(at)manta.jcu.edu.au (Ray Belbin) |
| Subject: | Progress and Catto Props |
Great work Earl! Especially interested in the building of the main spar.
I know of only 1 person in Australia who has passed up buying the
phlogiston spar.
Also, thanks (Chris I think) for the info about the Catto Prop. I've
passed on the info to our newly-formed users group out (down) here.
Ray Belbin
Townsville
Australia
________________________________________________________________________________
So, how has a new engine on the block???
I read that Teledyne Continental is working on two new engines, the first
is an I/O 240 rated at 125 HP at take off (95HP at a 2500 RPM cruise) the
second is an I/O 370 rated at 195HP at take off (150 at a 2500 RPM cruise).
Both engine are four cylinder with rear (Dynefocal I think) engine mounts.
Obviously they want to compete with Lycomings O-235 & O-360. Anyway I called
the factory a few hours ago to get some demsions ect.. on the I/O 370 for
possible instalation in my RV-6.
At this time the engines don't exsist,(at least the I/O 370, I didn't
ask for any details on the 240). The protype is expected to be in a test
cell some time this fall, with the first engines being available in the fall
of 1993. I tryed my best to get them to let me test bed an engine but it
didn't sell. The guy I spoke with said they anly need to test them in the
cell to get certification.
Anyway, he's sending me out some specifics on the demensions and what
ever else they have available at this time. So I'll have a look at it. I
don't think I can snag a new I/O 370 for less then Van's discount Lycoming
price but if I can (and it fits nicely in the RV) I might just go for it!
Chris.
RV-6 #21390
San Jose CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Wentz <Don_Wentz(at)ccm.hf.intel.com> |
| Subject: | 1st annual Northwest RV Flyin |
Well, we had it and it was a great success! over 40 RVs and 30 spam
cans showed-up, about 200 pilots, builders, and interested others. We
even had enough food to more than go around.
This was an event sponsored by the Portland Area RV Builders group. It
was a great time and we got to see lots of ways of doing things. I was
suprized to see 4 RV-6As there. There must be a lot of them under
construction.
Motivation!
Progress: installing stringers, should start skinning fuse bottom next
week.
don wentz, RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
>
> This was an event sponsored by the Portland Area RV Builders group. It
> was a great time and we got to see lots of ways of doing things. I was
> suprized to see 4 RV-6As there. There must be a lot of them under
> construction.
>
Speaking of 6A's there were 4 of them at Merced a few weeks back, I
would like Van to publish some numbers on what they think are under con-
struction. I know lots of people just by the plans and never do anything.
There is a guy at Reid Hillview here in San Jose CA that has his RV-6A
based.... He was one of the first to fly, spring of last year. I've been
helping him a bit to polish up the last details as it went off to the paint
shop this morning. It already has over 200 hrs of flight time!!
After spending that much time with his 6A I'm just about convinced that
the airplane doesn't look too bad with the extra 17 pounds in the nose. But
I still like the tail dragger better!
Status... Getting ready to drill the main skins on the second (right)
wing.I should be sealing up the fuel tanks in early August, Then it will be
time to do the Fuselage!!! I can hardly wait!!!
Chris.
RV-6 #21390
San Jose CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Morrissey +61 6 276 6811 <John(at)its.csiro.au> |
| Subject: | Sliding canopy opinions!! |
Gidday everyone on the rv-list!!
Well VH-HRV now has a new owner. With the money we got for the RV6
we are going to purchase a new RV6 kit when I go to Oshkosh next
week. One of the things I would appreciate opinions on, either good
or bad, is the sliding canopy option. has anybody got that far yet?
Another thing, this is a quick message for Chris Schulte. Since I have
had two messages bounced by the mail server this morning i thought I'd
try rv-list.
A mate and I will be touring around the west coast after Oshkosh and I
was wondering if we could drop in and have a quick look at your project?
We will be in the area around the end of August or early Sept.
Finally, Matt
my mail id has just been changed to j.morrissey(at)its.csiro.au
mail will still be accepted using the old address under alias but that
will be deleted within the next two months.
Hope to see some of you at Oshkosh. Ill have one of those rec.aviation
patches and an SAAA oshkosh express T-Shirts (easy to spot theres only
340 of us)
John Morrissey
VH-JSP Jodel D11
ex VH-HRV Vans RV6
________________________________________________________________________________
Well It's been so long since I've seen any action here... I'm wondering
if this letter is going to make it anywere or just end up in the bit bucket.
The second wing is much easier then the first! This wing is like perfect,
so totalt flush and everything. But when I build my next plane I will
build both wings at the same time.
All the skins are now drilled and the Ribs are all rivited and primed
I'll be bucking the main skins on in about a week, I still need to make the
gussets and inspection pannel, After that I'll put the light in and run
the wiring for the right wing. I'm going to finish up the fuel tanks before
I build the ailerons and flaps.
I got plan on working some double time on the airplane for the next few
weeks, I really want to get started on the Fuselage! In the last RV8R a
guy in Petaluma had a -6 Jig for sale I called him up yesterday and he drop-
ed of nice Fuselage Jig at my house this morning... He just took his out
of the jig last night!! Figure it should save me the trouble of getting
the wood and assembling it!! Pluse I think it really motivates me to
get the wings done!!
Let's here about how far you guys are on you project!
Chris.
RV-6 #21390
San Jose CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RE: Sliding canopy opinions!! |
>
> Well VH-HRV now has a new owner. With the money we got for the RV6
> we are going to purchase a new RV6 kit when I go to Oshkosh next
> week. One of the things I would appreciate opinions on, either good
> or bad, is the sliding canopy option. has anybody got that far yet?
>
John:
I plan on putting the Slider on my airplane, as for pro's and con's
I think Van has mentioned them all in the last year plus of RVators:
+ The slider is superior in taxi, Nothing like baking in CA on a HOT day.
+ The slider won't be effect by wind(prop wash) while opening or open.
+ The optional forward window gives you excellent optics, the blown bubble
distorts things, especially near curves in the canopy.
- The slider cost more $$$
- The slider is harder to install
- The slider has a little more drag and weight (doesn't everything)
- The slider's fixed forward windshield makes it impossible to access the
avionics form the top!! (Well, now it's like most other planes)
> Another thing, this is a quick message for Chris Schulte. Since I have
> had two messages bounced by the mail server this morning I thought I'd
> try rv-list.
>
Well, couldn't get through to me... I would suggest trying to route
your mail through APPLE or MIPS, since they are the bigest USENET sites in
this area. You can also try this address:
CES00(at)CHARON.AMDAHL.COM
I've got an account on that system too, and it is the machine that all our
external mail is routed through.
> A mate and I will be touring around the west coast after Oshkosh and I
> was wondering if we could drop in and have a quick look at your project?
> We will be in the area around the end of August or early Sept.
>
Hell yes! Stop on bye... Bring pictures, there's lots to see in CA
If your going to OSHKOSH say hi to Steve Barnard for me! He, just got his
RV-6A painted after flying it for the past year and some months... I think
his was one of the first 10 6A's to fly. Anyway, his tail number 157ST
the plane is lightly off white with beautiful brown interior... It very
well could win an award, look for it.
Guess I'll see you when you stop by, Give me a call on the Telephone.
Home Number is (408) 274-9249. Offers good to anyone passing bye. Just
bring pictures of your plane... and I'll show you mine!
Chris.
RV-6 #21390
San Jose CA
________________________________________________________________________________
sendmail 5.67/UCSD-2.2-sun via SMTP
| Subject: | add kube(at)cs.ucsd.edu rv-list |
| From: | kube(at)cs.UCSD.EDU |
Would the owner of rv-list please add me to the list? Thanks.
Sorry to bother the entire list with this, but
mail to rv-list-request, rv-list-owner, and listserv(at)matronics.com
bounced.
Paul Kube
kube(at)cs.ucsd.edu
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | davehyde(at)tecnet1.jcte.jcs.mil |
I got a message from Earl Brabandt about this list. Please include me. I'm
currently collecting tools and reviewing the plans for an RV-4. Hope to order
the tail kit sometime before the end of the year.
If anyone's interested, I'm a flight test engineer for the Navy. I can't
represent the Navy on the net (and I'm not sure I'd want to!), but I do have
flight test experience that also applies to lightplanes if it's helpful. Let
me know.
Dave Hyde My opinions, not my job
davehyde(at)tecnet1.jcte.jcs.mil
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Krieg <chris(at)cis.ohio-state.edu> |
| Subject: | RE: sliding canopy opinions!! |
Well, I've decided on the bubble canopy over the slider. I thought for the
longest time that the slider was for me, but after looking at pictures of
several RV-6As with each type of canopy, i'm going to get the bubble.
Why?? Because it looks better (in my opinion)!! plain & simple. I think the
slider makes the -6A look too much like a Grumman Tiger. I know the pros &
cons of both canopies, but asthetics won out.
My -6A project?? The tail is done (except balancing) and I just started on
the right wing. I've got the spar all ready for riveting including the
lightening holes and stiffener tapering. I"m just waiting for Oshkosh to
buy a tool to rivet those big rivets. Why spend $5 just to ship a $4 tool.
I might as well wait til OSH. The forward ribs are done (except for the
tank ribs) and I'm starting to work on the aileron bellcrank. I'll start
the wing tank after OSH.
Chris Krieg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Help: Locating Parts... |
I'm getting ready to rivet my Fuel Tanks together... But I want to
use sealed Nut Plates inside the tanks the insp/sender plate screws on.
I've been looking around, and now I can't seem to find any. Does any-
one know of source for these sealed nut plate?
Thanks,
Chris.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Help: Locating Parts... |
I'm getting ready to rivet my Fuel Tanks together... But I want to
use sealed Nut Plates inside the tank on the inspection / sender plate.
I've been looking around, and now I can't seem to find any. Does any-
one know of source for these sealed nut plate? I think they cary a part
number like: F-1968-08
Thanks,
Chris.
________________________________________________________________________________
Hello everyone!
Well, the rv-list is growing quite fast. There are about 30 RV-x
builders on the list now!
For those of you that don't know, I have all of the back postings to the
rv-list since the start. I can send this to anyone interested. It will
be in the UNIX "compress" and "uuencode" format, however. Send me some
email if you are interested.
Now, a little about my RV-4 project. I've ordered a few things lately. First,
I placed an order for a 3-bladed, Catto prop last month. 8-week delivery.
$900.00. I talked with the guy for quite a while. He seems very nice, and
knowledgable. He is making me a 64" X 78" prop. I guess the blades will be
wider than the unit he made for the RV-6 that Chris S. mentioned. Also,
4" larger diameter.
I was out at the Livermore Airport a week or so ago and met a fellow with
a Long EZ that has done some extensive tests for Catto props. Currently
he has a 3-blade unit similar to the one I have ordered. He was saying that
he has tried a number of different types/brands of props and is of the opinion
that the 3-b Catto is hands down the best he's ever flown. I guess over-all
performance is wonderful, and it is also *very* smooth and *very* quiet.
Sounds like I made a good choice.
Also, after reading the artical in Kitplanes about the single axis auto-pilot
that company has, I called them up and talked for a while. Installation
of the servo in an RV-4 is so simple and easy, I just couldn't say no. I've
heard nothing but good things about the unit in terms of reliability and
performance. Also, the 618TCA Loran tracking feature made it a must have.
They are currently prototyping a pitch axis unit. This will be a totally
seprate unit and as such can be added to the existing roll axis functionality.
They are planning production runs of the unit in about a year, though. Guess
I'll have to have one of those too!!! I'm running out of panel space!
Finally, I've been working on the upholstery the last couple of weeks. Here's
a tip for you all getting close. Spend the bucks and buy the Temperfoam
for making the cushions!!!! That stuff is amazing!!! It is firm, but *VERY*
comfortable. I spent about $350 on foam alown for my RV-4, but my ass is
definately going to apperciate it on those long X-countries. If you have any
questions about the stuff, I'll be happy to answer them. My recommendation:
Don't buy *any* other kinf of foam. Termperform is incredible!
Other than that, I have most of the cockpit parts made. Electric flaps are
in. Instrument panel is done. Seats are done. Floorboards are done.
Controls are done. Next I have to take all of that stuff out, prime it, then
rivit it all in. Who said building a plane was easy...
Good luck to you all!
Matt Dralle
RV-4
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Wentz <Don_Wentz(at)ccm.hf.intel.com> |
| Subject: | RV-List Status... |
Matt, sounds like you have been very busy! I sent away to Catto for
some info on their props, they do sound interesting.
I am ordering the airflow performance fuel injection this week, just
under $2K for my 0-360. Ouch. Starting to shop for my panel.
Double ouch!
Fuse sure is fun after the tedious wings, just starting to skin the
structure in the jig.
Welcome to the new members, and, how about a project update from the
rest of you guys?
don wentz, RV-6 20369, 180hp.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ccrdb(at)manta.jcu.edu.au (Ray Belbin) |
| Subject: | Re:RV-list Status |
>
> Welcome to the new members, and, how about a project update from the
> rest of you guys?
>
Not a great deal to report on the tail-feathers of my RV6A. Have
finished rear spar of horizontal stab, and most of forward spar of same.
Expect this weekend to have both spars finished and be putting on ribs
ready for alignment in my newly-constructed H-jig. Was very paranoid
about my early rivetting attempts until 2 things happened - 1) I checked it
out with a local LAME (aircraft mechanical engineer); and secondly I did
a 1/2 hour pre-flight of the elevators on a cessna 152 I was about to fly -
Yeeks! Looked like Sylvestor Stalone had bought a rivet gun and taken on
the Cessna factory! I am now very impressed with the design of RVs.
In OZ we have a national builder's group. There are 15 RVs
registered and flying - a 3, many 4's, and a couple of 6's I believe.
There are approximately 30 others under construction.
In my infancy as a builder, I have been very slow and cautious. But I
feel more confident every day and am finding building to be a lot more
enjoyable than I had expected.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
| O o | ------------------------------ |
| ====-----=======--... | | Ray Belbin (ccrdb(at)manta.jcu.edu.au) |
| | / - __. . .....__|-| | TROPICAL Townsville , Queensland |
| |__/ '--.__/ | | AUSTRALIA ************************* |
| | ------------------------------ |
| THUNDER DOWN UNDER .... OZ! | CAVOK 24 degrees Celcius |
------------------------------------- (Remember America's Cup '83!)--
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Sealed nut plate discusion. |
Ok... I've located the Sealed NUT plates from a company up in Washington State
but there's a catch, those dumb things are very expensive. $2.71 EACH!! Now
if I look at the plans each access plate needs 12 nutplates on them, that
works out to $32.52 per tank (not including shipping)
So, I'm lloking towards the wisdom of vertran tank builders. Should I
cancile the idea an go with the plans k1000 nutplates. Or fork out the
$70.00 I would imagine you can do fine without them... otherwise they Van
would have them in the plans. Any opinons... I'd like to hear.
Chris.
________________________________________________________________________________
rv-list%matronics.com(at)juts.ccc.amdahl.com
| Subject: | Re: Sealed nut plate discusion. |
>
> Ok... I've located the Sealed NUT plates from a company up in Washington State
> but there's a catch, those dumb things are very expensive. $2.71 EACH!! Now
> if I look at the plans each access plate needs 12 nutplates on them, that
> works out to $32.52 per tank (not including shipping)
>
> So, I'm lloking towards the wisdom of vertran tank builders. Should I
> cancile the idea an go with the plans k1000 nutplates. Or fork out the
> $70.00 I would imagine you can do fine without them... otherwise they Van
> would have them in the plans. Any opinons... I'd like to hear.
>
>
>
> Chris.
>
Save your $70.00. Do you get kissed when you buy those sealed nut plates??
The k1000 seem to be working fine on the 100's of RVs flying.
Matt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | doug(at)Alliant.COM (Doug Bloomberg) |
Howdy,
I was asked to post mail to you to inform you about my RV project.
I am building a RV-6 empanage is finished, wing kit is on hold until
I figure out what is happening with my job (company went chap 11)
I also write a news letter for Rocky Mountain RVators. We have about
100 folks in our group.
Doug Bloomberg
11170 W. Fremont Ave.
Littleton, CO 80127
(303) 979-2451
RV-6 Builder
Thanks,
Doug Bloomberg (doug(at)alliant.com)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Sealing the FUEL TANKS... |
Figured I'd give the RV-list mailer something to knock the dust off....
I'm getting ready to seal me FUEL tanks up and have been toying with the
method, order of operations. This is what I've come up with but would like to
here any ideas from you veteran tankers!
I plan on Pro-Sealing the tip rib modifications, and then the skin mods
(stiffeners, inlet, drain). I'm going to alodine all the ribs and the rear
baffle, but figure on leaving the skin bare. As far as the installation
process goes, I am going to cleco the skin to the assemble on the the wing,
then remove it and place it into the holding jig.
With the assembly in the jig I can remove the rear baffle and then remove
one rib at a time... Proseal it... reinstall it into the tank ass, and rivet
it into place. When I get to the inboard root rib I can install the breather
line into the assembly and then rivet the tip rib inplace.
Does this sound like a superior technique to VAN's, the plans say to coat
each rib prior to putting the stin on the assembly.
Your comments are greatly appreciated... Post them here... Send them
directly to me... Give me a call... or even stop by and give me a hand :)
Email.... CES00@lear-jet.diag.amdahl.com
CES00(at)just.ccc.amdahl.com Chris.
RV-6 #21390
Phone.... (408) 274-9249 San Jose CA
Airport.. (408) 729-3383
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | misg!seahcx!phred!dougm(at)travis.csd.harris.com (Doug Medema) |
| Subject: | Rudder skin stiffeners |
HELP!!
I have finished both the vertical and horizontal stabilizers and decided to do
the rudder
before the elevators. I now have the rudder "skeleton" (the front spar, top and
bottom
ribs, and other little pieces) together.
I have been working on the stiffeners for the last little while. I decided to
do what was
recommended in the RVator awhile back and extend the stiffeners closer to the trailing
edge than the 1/2 inch shown on the plans. It looked like I could get within 3/16ths
of
an inch so I added 5/16ths (1/2 - 3/16ths) to the length of each stiffener. I
then made
all of the stiffeners except for the top one on each side.
Last night, I started to lay out the skeleton and stiffeners on the skin and things
went
south in a hurry! The plans show 19-1/2 inches along the bottom to the trailing
edge of
the spar, and 10-1/2 inches at the top. If I use these numbers, the stiffeners
are way
too short at the bottom (even though I made mine longer) and way too long at the
top.
Am I missing something here. Or should I just make some new bottom stiffeners
at the
correct length and modify the old bottom ones for the second one up, the old second
one
up for the third one up, etc.
Anyone remember anything about this.
Thanks. Doug M.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RE: Rudder blues... |
>
> HELP!!
>
> I have finished both the vertical and horizontal stabilizers and decided to
> before the elevators. I now have the rudder "skeleton" (the front spar, top
> ribs, and other little pieces) together.
>
> I have been working on the stiffeners for the last little while. I decided
> recommended in the RVator awhile back and extend the stiffeners closer to th
> edge than the 1/2 inch shown on the plans. It looked like I could get withi
> an inch so I added 5/16ths (1/2 - 3/16ths) to the length of each stiffener.
> all of the stiffeners except for the top one on each side.
>
> Last night, I started to lay out the skeleton and stiffeners on the skin and
> south in a hurry! The plans show 19-1/2 inches along the bottom to the trai
> the spar, and 10-1/2 inches at the top. If I use these numbers, the stiffen
> too short at the bottom (even though I made mine longer) and way too long at
>
> Am I missing something here. Or should I just make some new bottom stiffene
> correct length and modify the old bottom ones for the second one up, the old
> up for the third one up, etc.
>
> Anyone remember anything about this.
>
> Thanks. Doug M.
Doug... If I can remember back that far I can't recall having any problems
with the rudder at all. Although I know my stifners are at least 1/2" out
from the traling edge. I think I made them all acording to the SK-?? diag
with out any diviation - I'll see can take a look at mine tonight. If you
wanna give me a call at home my Number is (408) 274-9249. I should be
getting home be 8:00 pm pacific time. Otherwise I'll be in the garage all
day on Sunday you can call anytime after 7:30am pacific time...
My work number is 800-538-8460 x67422 Chris.
But that won't help you too much today RV-6 #21390
since I don't have the plans with me!! San Jose CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Wentz <Don_Wentz(at)ccm.hf.intel.com> |
| Subject: | note to John Morrissey |
John, I got your message but can't seem to reply so I am using the
RV-list. Sounds like you guys had a great trip. Sure, send some
project pictures, including some with you guys in them.
don wentz
50641 Firridge Ave.
Scappoose, OR 97056
________________________________________________________________________________
for
for rv-list(at)matronics.com
| From: | "Wischmeyer, Ed" <Wischmeyer#m#_Ed(at)msgate.corp.apple.com> |
Yes, the ARSA Fighter is for sale. It has 160 HP; Pacesetter prop; mid time engine;
<300 hours on the airframe; full gyros, G-meter, glideslope, mode C; and
professional upholstery. I've redone just about everything on the plane, and have
brought it up to snuff. Advertised in Trade-a-Plane for $39,200. Finders fee
of $250 if you give me a buyer's name before they call, or if the buyer gives
me your name on the *first* contact.
Why sell it? First, I've received clear and unambiguous hints that I'm going to
get laid off in less than two weeks; and I'm facing knee surgery that would make
it virtually impossible to get in it for a period of at least 6 weeks, even
after I find another job.
On that topic, if anybody knows of an opening for a PhD/ATP techie with good customer
skills, please let me know!
Ed Wischmeyer
wischmeyer1(at)applelink.apple.com
408 732-9832
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Wentz <Don_Wentz(at)ccm.hf.intel.com> |
| Subject: | is there life out there? |
Hey all you rv list people out there, what's happening with you? Add
Doug Miner to the list Matt, he has been a big help on my project and
now has an address - dougm(at)pogo.wv.tek.com - I might also add that he
is about halfway to his private ticket after many years wanting to get
it.
My project is still moving along and my bank account is dwindling
rapidly. Included in the spending spree is an Airflow Performance
Multi-Port fuel injection (only $1920.00), and I got most of my
standard panel instruments used from Styles Aviation in NY. Lots of
miscellaneous stuff like ACK ELT (uses Duracell batteries!), Flightcom
IIS (ordered the II for $82, they now stock the IIS, surprise! $111!),
4-way trim switch/relay deck, harness cables, etc., etc. It sure
adds-up!
I have been installing baggage panels and expect to paint some interior
colors this week! Lots to do. I took a look thru the finish kit plans
this weekend. There is still an amazing amount of work to look forward
to. Wow. Maybe I won't finish next summer.... Oh well, I'm still
trying :-). The plan is to do all I can without the finish kit until
after the end of the year, so hopefully my funds will get my panel
complete so I can finish it.
Went for a ride in local builder Norm Rainey's RV-6A (160hp Warnke
prop). It flies very nice and seems to be trimmed pretty staight. He
is a happy guy!
Any project status from the rest of you?
Don Wentz, 180hp RV-6, #20369
________________________________________________________________________________
Things are moving quite slow for me. I'm still working on the wing kit (I
sure hope the Fuselage goes together quicker!) One fuel tank is now com-
plete. I think Ii might have gon a little thick on the Sloshing compound.
I talk to a few other people and they said they had enough for both tanks
and then some. I seamed to have used a good bit over 1/2 a can for just
one tank. Perhaps my can was a little older and thinker.
For sure this tank will never leak...and it even looks like it could win
an award in Oshkosh (in 1995 that is). I figure I'd finish up the right
wing completly. So I've moved on to the flaps, I hope to have the right
wing control surfaces finish by the end of the month.
Talk about dwindl'n bank accounts, That what mine is about to do. Don't
know if you guys heard but Amdahl is going to lay off 600 People here in
Sunnyvale early next mo. So if you never here from me again, or my mail
starts bouncing!! You'll now what's up. I hate the idea of my job get-
ting in the way of building my airplane.
Chris.
RV-6 #21390
San Jose CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | "negative" flaps on RV airfoils? |
| From: | kube(at)melpomene.umd.edu |
OK, Don Wentz's "Hey all you rv list people out there" message
gets me to sit down at the keyboard here.
Last spring I talked with John Harmon at Bakersfield about the idea
of having reflex flaps on the RV wing, a notch of negative-several
degrees to kill some lift and keep the induced drag under control
at high speeds. This of course works with success on the Maule and
some other "thick" airfoils. My question: has it been tried on the
RV-4/6 wing? Harmon thought it would be worth trying on his
IO-540 powered Harmon Rocket II, but I haven't heard if he's done
it. What effect would you expect with a 180hp RV-6?
--Paul
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ray Belbin <ccrdb(at)groper.jcu.edu.au> |
Well, not quite ready to choose interior paint jobs yet, but nevertheless
I'm still on my way. Have completed rivetting port skin onto horizontal
stabiliser, and hope this afternoon to finish the whole piece , i.e.
finish the port one. I really never suspected how gratifying it would be
to see these pieces slowly come together. Will start on the fin very
shortly. It's high time I ordered the wings, since I'm way down here -
it'll take some time to get them.
"To Phlogiston , or not to Pholgiston - that is the question"
The bank account reckons NO. Some sense in me says yes. Who's got a horror
story about putting a main spar together?
Ray Belbin
RV-6A a-building and lovin' it
---------------------------------------------------------------------
| 0 o | ------------------------------ |
| ====-----=======--... | | Ray Belbin (ccrdb(at)groper.jcu.edu.au) |
| | / - __. . .....__|-| | TROPICAL Townsville , Queensland |
| |__/ '--.__/ | | AUSTRALIA ************************* |
| | ------------------------------ |
| THUNDER DOWN UNDER .... OZ! | 26 Celcius 1/8 Cu 5000' |
------------------------------------- (Remember America's Cup '83!)--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ray Belbin <ccrdb(at)groper.jcu.edu.au> |
On Thu, 22 Oct 1992, Ray Belbin wrote:
>
> Well, not quite ready to choose interior paint jobs yet, but nevertheless
> I'm still on my way. Have completed rivetting port skin onto horizontal
> stabiliser, and hope this afternoon to finish the whole piece , i.e.
> finish the port one. I really never suspected how gratifying it would be
^^^^^^^^^^
I think I mean starboard!
(First plane in history with 2 port sides!)
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> | 0 o | ------------------------------ |
> | ====-----=======--... | | Ray Belbin (ccrdb(at)groper.jcu.edu.au) |
> | | / - __. . .....__|-| | TROPICAL Townsville , Queensland |
> | |__/ '--.__/ | | AUSTRALIA ************************* |
> | | ------------------------------ |
> | THUNDER DOWN UNDER .... OZ! | 26 Celcius 1/8 Cu 5000' |
> ------------------------------------- (Remember America's Cup '83!)--
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Krieg <chris(at)cis.ohio-state.edu> |
| Subject: | RV-6A status & phlogiston spars |
I just got in from the garage. Things are going well with my right wing. I've
started building the fuel tank. It appears that my tank skin is about 1/8"
wider than the outboard leading edge skin. It will not line up on the 1/2"
line on the spar without the leading edge sticking out about 3/16" above
the outboard skin. Has anyone else had this problem?? It seems that I really
had to pull the outboard skin down real tight to get it to come within 1/2"
of the trailing edge of the spar, while the tank skin just seems to want fall
in to position.
To run wires to my wingtips, I'm bought some 1/2"OD AL tubing from Wicks,
along with some 1/2"ID snap bushings. I plan to run the tubing the length of
the wing so that I can close the wings, but still be able to run lighting and
trim wires thru the wings later during finishing. It seems like it would be
very diffcult to run the wires thru the wings after they are closed without
this. I've seen some people who end up running the wires down the trailing
edge or fish them haphazardly thru the lightening holes. It will also make
it easier to replace worn wires down the line.
To Phlogiston or not??]
I was going to have them do my spars, but the bank account would not allow it.
Now that I've done one spar, I'm glad I saved the money. Sure, it was a bit
more work, but it really wasn't that bad. The toughest part was tapering the
spar strips. It took me a few days to get them just as I wanted them. The
process should get even quicker once I get a belt sander. The actual riveting
of the spar was a piece of cake. Since Van's now pre-drills all spars, all I
had to do was line up the strips and pound away. Yes, pound. I used the Avery
riveting/dimpling arbor and a two pound hammer method. It only took about an
hour to pound all those big rivets. All came out just fine.
Chris Krieg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Fuel tank miss match... |
> I just got in from the garage. Things are going well with my right wing. I'v
> started building the fuel tank. It appears that my tank skin is about 1/8"
> wider than the outboard leading edge skin. It will not line up on the 1/2"
> line on the spar without the leading edge sticking out about 3/16" above
> the outboard skin. Has anyone else had this problem?? It seems that I really
> had to pull the outboard skin down real tight to get it to come within 1/2"
> of the trailing edge of the spar, while the tank skin just seems to want fal
> in to position.
Hey Chris... That sounds about right. U think Van had a lot of complaints
about tank skins being to short, so he now making them a bit longer then they
need to be. If you measure the skin you'll find it is 1/8" to 1/4" longer
then the plan specify. (at least mine were) The trick is to make sure the bend
lines in the leading edge of the fuel tank match the bend lines in the leading
edge of the outboard skin. You can trim the tank overhang after you drill the
skin. This method only works if you do the leading edge first. Some people
elect to put the top and bottom main skins on first in this case I would sug-
gest cutting the skin before you placed it on the assembly.
I took this build the leading edge first technique a little farther on my sec-
ond wing. Rather then build the complete skeleton before skinning (main ribs
rear spare etc.) I just just drilled the outer rib pairs and the fuel tank
ribs then I drilled the leading edge, removed it, debured, primered, and riv-
eted it together before moving on. This way I could support the main spare
with 4x4's (it stays very straight) After the riveted leading edge is clecoed
to the spare the hole assembly becomes very ridgid,
> To run wires to my wingtips, I'm bought some 1/2"OD AL tubing from Wicks,
> along with some 1/2"ID snap bushings. I plan to run the tubing the length of
> the wing so that I can close the wings, but still be able to run lighting an
> trim wires thru the wings later during finishing. It seems like it would be
> very diffcult to run the wires thru the wings after they are closed without
> this. I've seen some people who end up running the wires down the trailing
> edge or fish them haphazardly thru the lightening holes. It will also make
> it easier to replace worn wires down the line.
I installed all my wires during assembly. Think things out ahead, it will pay
off in the future. If you are going to ad electric trim I would recomend put-
ting the servo on the inboard side of the aileron (as Van recomended to me).
this mean you want these wires (2 to 5 depending on your design) to come out
of the wing near the aileron control arm. Not the end of the wing. I have
talked to a few people that wanted to mount a tab in the wing tip. If you do
beware you'll need a tab 3-5 times the size to have as much effect as a tab
located on the aileron itself.
As for my Wire runing technique I ran all my wiring forward of the main spare
and with soft rubber gromets that hold tight against the wire in the leading
edge ribs. and with MS-??? (metal with rubber booties) clamps to hold the wire
between the spare and the tank rear baffle. These clamps can be attached to
the bolts through the spare. I also ran my pitot line this way (but I used
an all plastic line rather the Vans AU line).
> To Phlogiston or not??]
>
> I was going to have them do my spars, but the bank account would not allow i
> Now that I've done one spar, I'm glad I saved the money. Sure, it was a bit
> more work, but it really wasn't that bad. The toughest part was tapering the
> spar strips. It took me a few days to get them just as I wanted them. The
> process should get even quicker once I get a belt sander. The actual rivetin
> of the spar was a piece of cake. Since Van's now pre-drills all spars, all I
> had to do was line up the strips and pound away. Yes, pound. I used the Aver
> riveting/dimpling arbor and a two pound hammer method. It only took about an
> hour to pound all those big rivets. All came out just fine.
Well I went with the Phlogiston spare... I think they do a nice job but it is
true that you can now build the spare with out to much difficulty. If you do
build your own spare make certain that you tapper at least the bottom/aft
spare strips cause you will need the extra room to put in nut plates to hold
the fuel tank skin secure.
Chris.
RV-6 #21390
San Jose CA
________________________________________________________________________________
rv-list%matronics.com(at)juts.ccc.amdahl.com
| Subject: | Re: Fuel tank miss match... |
Howdy,
In the previous messages Chris mentioned one way to run wires in the wing.
Another method is to use the plastic tube that Van sells Can't remember the
number but it comes in 50 ft lots and weighs next to nothing.
I'm putting in two tubes per wing. One tube in front of the spar and one
behind the spar. Why? One tube will have the nav lights and strobe power
lines. The second will hold antenna wires. I will place my nav antennas
in the tips. Using two tubes will cut down on noise on the radio. (You
NEVER want to run antenna wire parallel to power wires and in close proximity)
To install the tube use a uni-bit and drill 13/16" holes, Except at the ends
of the tubing, here drill a 11/16" he. by squeezing the tubing it will
fit into the 11/16" hole, thereby locking it in place.
Another tip: Which ever method you use run a string through all of the
holes/tubing you use in the wing. Make this string 2.2 x length of the run.
Place excess string into a used 35mm film can on inboard side of the wing.
WHY? This string can be used to pull cable through the tubing in the future.
By having more than twice the length you will be able to retieve the string
for future usage. Who knows what you will want to place into the tips 20 years
from now!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Wentz <Don_Wentz(at)ccm.hf.intel.com> |
2 local builders just finished their spars using the 'Avery Dimple
Tool' and a LARGE hammer. It was quick and not very difficult. If the
$$ are at all an issue, do your own.
don w.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: wingtip nav antennas (was: Re: Fuel tank miss match... ) |
<9210231655.AA17499(at)Alliant.COM>
| From: | kube(at)iving.umd.edu |
Doug Bloomberg mentions he's installing his nav antennas in the wingtips.
This would give a very clean installation and from the literature I've seen,
they are supposed to work as well or better than the tail-mounted V.
My question is, can you get IFR certification for a localizer
antenna that's located 10' (or whatever) from the aircraft
centerline?? For VOR's of course it's no problem, but it might
actually make a difference close in on the localizer.
How do you wingtip-antenna folks deal with this?
--Paul
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | wingtip nav antennas |
> Doug Bloomberg mentions he's installing his nav antennas in the wingtips.
>
> This would give a very clean installation and from the literature I've see
> they are supposed to work as well or better than the tail-mounted V.
>
> My question is, can you get IFR certification for a localizer
> antenna that's located 10' (or whatever) from the aircraft
> centerline?? For VOR's of course it's no problem, but it might
> actually make a difference close in on the localizer.
>
I called a friend of mine that owns a local Avionics shop. He informed me that
this would not be a problem as far as certification is concerned... You will
have to deal with the fact that you are slightly off to one side but we are
only talking 10 FEET!! Remember the MDA is 200 FEET!! He seemed to think
that the V mounted antena would work better overal then the tip mount.
My 2 Cents....
Chris.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Earl Brabandt <earlb(at)SSD.intel.com> |
| Subject: | Re: wingtip nav antennas (was: Re: Fuel tank miss match... ) |
>
>
> Doug Bloomberg mentions he's installing his nav antennas in the wingtips.
>
> This would give a very clean installation and from the literature I've seen,
> they are supposed to work as well or better than the tail-mounted V.
>
> My question is, can you get IFR certification for a localizer
> antenna that's located 10' (or whatever) from the aircraft
> centerline?? For VOR's of course it's no problem, but it might
> actually make a difference close in on the localizer.
>
> How do you wingtip-antenna folks deal with this?
>
> --Paul
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Krieg <chris(at)cis.ohio-state.edu> |
The reason that I'm using AL tubing instead of the plastic stuff Van is
selling is that I don't have to run a string to pull the wires through.
The ribs in the plastic tubing will cause the wires to bind when trying
to feed them. With the AL tubing, the inside surface is smooth with no
restrictions to bind the wires. Plus, in the future, how will you feed a
new string down the plastic conduit if you have to replace some wiring??
And the AL tubing is still pretty light. Both methods will work, but I
like the ease of AL tubing.
Any answers on my skin mismatch problem?? I guess I'll just have to cut it
to make it line up properly.
Chris Krieg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | doug(at)Alliant.COM (Doug Bloomberg) |
| Subject: | Re: wingtip nav antennas (was: Re: Fuel tank miss match... ) |
Concerning wing tip antennas and IFR certification. I do not plan to
certify the aircraft at this point for IFR flight. But, the question is
a good one and one that I had not thought of.
Old time, Experimental flyers (RV's, Mustang II's, Thorps) are adament that
you shouldn't even fly an experimental at night, much less IFR.
I'm installing nav lights, with the thought that they're there in case I get
delayed by winds, not so I can specifically fly ar night. I guess IFR flight
would come under the same concerns. File IFR only to get through a layer,
either climbing or decending.. Not, to fly in hard IFR for an entire flight.
Take care, Blue skies and Tail Winds
Doug Bloomberg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Watch those Hypotenuses! |
I almost finished building my left flap last week. I could not understand why
there seemed to be a little more over lap were the top skin mates to the bot-
tom flap assembly. Anyway I measured it 100 times decided it was perfect...
drilled it and about an hour later I changed my mind. Seems I made the flap
1/8" to short. Oh well I only need to buy another bottom skin and four ribs.
Not to big of a problem I wasn't even goin to post my screw up here till I
talked to someone who told me alot of people have done the same thing. But
rather then build to new flaps Van has been supplying wider flap finges so
things will line up! (It think I'll build another 1/2 a flap).
So what is the problem? (not the patch). There is a demension on the flap
side view drawing of 10 1/2" This is a cord line demension but it looks a
lot like a skin line demension. For us stupid people - or virgin airplane
builders we look at this demension and end up with a 1/8" inch short flap.
That's OK we just use the wider piano hinge :) Well if you find the hypot-
enuse of the triangle you'll find the skin length needs to be 10 5/8"
Chris.
RV-6 #21390
San Jose CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Morrissey J <John.Morrissey(at)its.csiro.au> |
| Subject: | Re: wingtip wiring |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Krieg <chris(at)cis.ohio-state.edu> |
The reason that I'm using AL tubing instead of the plastic stuff Van is
selling is that I don't have to run a string to pull the wires through.
The ribs in the plastic tubing will cause the wires to bind when trying
to feed them. With the AL tubing, the inside surface is smooth with no
restrictions to bind the wires. Plus, in the future, how will you feed a
new string down the plastic conduit if you have to replace some wiring??
And the AL tubing is still pretty light. Both methods will work, but I
like the ease of AL tubing.
Any answers on my skin mismatch problem?? I guess I'll just have to cut it
to make it line up properly.
Chris Krieg
Gidday Chris
I must agree with your comments regarding the use of AL tubing. For those
of you trying to get wires down plastic tubing without a draw string I would
suggest a visit to your local electrical supply house to purchase some cable
slip compound. Electricians use this slimey stuff to coat the cables when
trying to push them through long plastic conduits. You don't need very much,
about a teaspoon in each tube and it dose'nt affect the cable at all. With the
AL tube I got out the flaring tool and put a nice rounded flare at each end
of the tube. This will prevent any chafing of the cable in service.
Regarding your skin missmatch problem, I can remember having to use a lot of
force to get the outer leading edge skins to pull down onto the spar correctly.
But talking to a few of the fella's here this seem to be a bit variable.
All I can say is good luck and if it looks right do it!!
John Morrissey
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Morrissey J <John.Morrissey(at)its.csiro.au> |
| Subject: | Gidday - and a quick test |
Hi all on the RV list.
We have just installed CCmail on our Lan so I thought I'd just
send a quick message to the list to see if it all works.
A quick update on my project. It has suffered from Oshkosh induced
funds stall at the moment. But the good news is that the wing for the
RV4 is on the water and is due in Australia in about 6 or 7 weeks
(Mid December - Merry Xmas to me) I've been spending a fair amount
of time working on my mate's RV6 wing. We should have both of his wings
finished by the time mine turn up, so the jig will be free for my wings.
RV fever has struck Canberra again with another order going into Van's
today. That makes four projects within 10 mins drive of my house.
I have also ordered the Mac trim servo to retro fit to my elevator.
Has any body out there any experience with flying with these servos? The
servo I fitted to my mates elevator seems to have a fairly slow movement
without the optional speed controller fitted and I'm wondering if I need
to buy the controller.
Happy riviting!!
John Morrissey
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | misg!seahcx!phred!dougm(at)travis.csd.harris.com (Doug Medema) |
| Subject: | Progress update and some questions. |
Not much traffic lately, so I thought I would give a short progress report and
then throw in some questions.
I have now finished my HS, VS, and Rudder. I actually ended up doing two rudders
because I convinced myself that the shim used to take out the twist during con-
struction should go at the trailing edge rather than the leading edge. :{
I also had some other minor things like small dents and dings so I redid the whole
rudder with 0.020 skin. The thicker skin carried quite a premium. $150 for
all the aluminum pieces plus the platenuts and rivets. It is also much harder
to bend the leading edges together with the .020 skin! I have also installed
the fiberglass tips on the VS and the top of the rudder. For the bottom of
the rudder, I didn't like the holes over the rudder horn so I tried to do some-
thing about them. I made up cardboard templates that fit nicely over the horn
and along the bottom of the skin. I then transferred these to the fiberglass
parts and cut out the slot to fit over the rudder horn. On one side, I scored
the fiberglass quite heavily on the inside and then used my hand seamer to bend
this back so that an opening was left that would slide around the control horn.
I can now slide the one side over the horn and then rotate the part with the
opening up over the control horn into its proper place. I installed two small
shim pieces to the bottom spar of the rudder in the area over the control horn.
These are similar in function to the shims behind the control horn and will allow
me to pop rivet the fiberglass right over the control horn. The piece that is
bent
out to allow for going over the control horn will probably break before I am finally
done, but I will just fiberglass it back in place and will have no exposed holes
and a smooth finish. I haven't permanently mounted it yet because I still need
to buy and install a light (combined white plus strobe). I am currently working
on the skeletons for my elevators and primed them last night. I had another
local builder check over all of my work with favorable results. He helped
build one -6 and is working on the wings for his own -6.
Overall, I am having a lot of fun and am continually amazed at how fast the time
goes when I'm working on my plane.
Now the questions:
1) Matt: Can you send me the available information on your electric trim
installation including any drawings (eg. elevator cutout and horn diagrams)
you have? I don't remember if you were giving out the schematic for your
governor or is it just for purchase. Please let me know. My mailing address
is:
Doug Medema
7401 E. Heather Way
Everett, WA 98203
2) How close should the skins on moving parts come to those on (relatively) non-
moving parts? The two I am thinking of are the area by the elevator counter
weight as it moves past the HS, and the trim tab as it moves past the left
elevator. Is 1/16th too close? Is there a penalty for too much clearance?
3) Did everybody just bend over the edges of the trim tabs at the end and pop
rivit them together? I saw somewhere, either the Puget Sound RVator or Van's
RVator about someone who made up little ribs. These were supposed to give
a
nicer edge finish than bending over the ends.
4) Any other advice about building the elevators will be gladly accepted.
Thanks. Doug M. RV-6A.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | davehyde(at)tecnet1.jcte.jcs.mil |
Hello everyone,
I've been lurking for a few months now. Just got all the back postings
from Earl B. Holy Cow! You've already answered several questions I
had.
Recently I've been going through the RV-4 plans trying to gain a
thorough understanding of how evrything goes together so that when stuff
arrives I won't be sitting and thinking. I've got a list of questions
I'll post someday. I've also been collecting tools one at a time. BTW
Sears clearance departments are fantastic! $200 for a 3.5 HP 18 Gal
compressor?!
I've gotten the hardest part of the kit out of the way...my wife wants
one too. Took her to the RV forum in Frederick, MD last April and got
her to sit in Dick Creswell's -4 (the one from the AVEMCO ads). She
came out grinning and hasn't really stopped. We expect to order the
tail kit sometime within the month.
I'm in Chesapeake Beach, MD, south of Annapolis, and would like to hear
from other builders (Chris Moody still around?) in the MD/VA/DC area.
Thanks
Dave Hyde
davehyde(at)tecnet1.jcte.jcs.mil
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | moody(at)cyclone.mitre.org (John C. Moody) |
----- Begin Included Message -----
Hello everyone,
I've been lurking for a few months now. Just got all the back postings
from Earl B. Holy Cow! You've already answered several questions I
had.
Recently I've been going through the RV-4 plans trying to gain a
thorough understanding of how evrything goes together so that when stuff
arrives I won't be sitting and thinking. I've got a list of questions
I'll post someday. I've also been collecting tools one at a time. BTW
Sears clearance departments are fantastic! $200 for a 3.5 HP 18 Gal
compressor?!
I've gotten the hardest part of the kit out of the way...my wife wants
one too. Took her to the RV forum in Frederick, MD last April and got
her to sit in Dick Creswell's -4 (the one from the AVEMCO ads). She
came out grinning and hasn't really stopped. We expect to order the
tail kit sometime within the month.
I'm in Chesapeake Beach, MD, south of Annapolis, and would like to hear
from other builders (Chris Moody still around?) in the MD/VA/DC area.
Thanks
Dave Hyde
davehyde(at)tecnet1.jcte.jcs.mil
----- End Included Message -----
Dave, I'm still here. Did we meet at the forum?
Progress has been slow but has spurted forward a bit lately. The
-6 is now in the fuse jig almost ready for skinning.
For the -6 builders out there: what did you all think of the
aft cg article in the last rv-ator?
I have to admit i did not realize the extent of
the aft cg situation. It looks like if you have a conventional
gear -6 with a wooden prop you may not be packin much baggage! It
seems the only solution is to spend an extra $3-4 K for a CS prop.
(Not to mention the shipping charges to exchange my cowling?)
How have other -6 owners who are flying dealt with this? I was wondering
if it is possible or prudent to see if the tailspring could be lightened
or possibly replaced with a composite. Van has mentioned composite gear
for his fighter version.
Chris Moody
RV-6
Silver Spring Md
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Earl Brabandt <earlb(at)SSD.intel.com> |
I don't know about a glass tail spring, but the glass main gear on
Van's RV-6T prototype has been nothing but trouble. It seems the stuff
fails progressively and begins to sag after a short while. I heard
the gear change was motivated by the Nigerians who were concerned about
the possiblity the steel gear might come through the floor in a hard
(crash) landing. They wanted something that would fold up instead.
Well, they achieved that and more! In my opinion their concerns with
the steel gear were unfounded and I guess Van wasn't too happy with the
idea in the first place.
Another thing that helps the CG situation is to stick with the
heavy aircraft starter and alternator rather than the lighter conversions.
Earl Brabandt RV-6 N66VR (in progressdadsfasdfasdf:
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ray Belbin <ccrdb(at)groper.jcu.edu.au> |
| Subject: | Aft CoG business |
Finished skinning HS and VS stabs. Wished I'd put in some more lightening
holes in the inner ribs now! I was planning to put in a strobe. Not sure
if I like the idea of HV power wires down fuse to get parts out of the tail.
I suppose nosedragger will be a little better off, though I am surprised
at the RVator conclusions based on tests with -6 (taildragger) - I would
have thought problem would have been less prevalent than with one behind
other seating. I did see the previous RVator where Van explained that
seating configs made no difference. I confess I still don't quite
understand it. I'll have to re-read the articles.
Progress:
--------
About to start on rudder. Have noted recent posting about the
same. The 2 neighboring projects in my area of the country have both built
2 rudders! I must do a lot of thinking about this one!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
| 0 o | ------------------------------ |
| ====-----=======--... | | Ray Belbin (ccrdb(at)manta.jcu.edu.au) |
| | / - __. . .....__|-| | TROPICAL Townsville , Queensland |
| |__/ '--.__/ | | AUSTRALIA ************************* |
| | ------------------------------ |
| THUNDER DOWN UNDER .... OZ! | balmy 3/8ths puffballs@3000|
------------------------------------- (Remember America's Cup '83!)---
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | moody(at)cyclone.mitre.org (John C. Moody) |
----- Begin Included Message -----
I don't know about a glass tail spring, but the glass main gear on
Van's RV-6T prototype has been nothing but trouble. It seems the stuff
fails progressively and begins to sag after a short while. I heard
the gear change was motivated by the Nigerians who were concerned about
the possiblity the steel gear might come through the floor in a hard
(crash) landing. They wanted something that would fold up instead.
Well, they achieved that and more! In my opinion their concerns with
the steel gear were unfounded and I guess Van wasn't too happy with the
idea in the first place.
Another thing that helps the CG situation is to stick with the
heavy aircraft starter and alternator rather than the lighter conversions.
Earl Brabandt RV-6 N66VR (in progressdadsfasdfasdf:
----- End Included Message -----
thanks for the update earl. To make things worse
i sprang for the new
engine deal from van and its my understanding that it indeed has the
new lightweight starter. Also i'mtrying to figure where the strobe
unit should go. Wondering if it can be mounted somewhere between
the 601 and 604 bulkhead and be reasonably out of pilots and pax way.
Are you going with a wood prop?
I am also going with the sliding canopy. I wonder if that will
make any significant CG change (roll struct shifts forward?)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | moody(at)cyclone.mitre.org (John C. Moody) |
Hi John --
How have other -6 owners who are flying dealt with this? I was wondering
if it is possible or prudent to see if the tailspring could be lightened
or possibly replaced with a composite. Van has mentioned composite gear
for his fighter version.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
??? Can you enlighten me about what the "fighter version" is? Thanks
--Paul
I think its what van calls the rv6t that was somewhat of a develpment
project for the nigerians. I think its discussed (with some good photos)
in a recent AOPA pilot mag.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | davehyde(at)tecnet1.jcte.jcs.mil |
Well, I called Van's last night for ordering info. It looks
like prices are going up right at the first of the new year.
She (missed the name) said that all the kit bits would be going
up ~$100 or so, but that was an estimate.
Now there's no excuse for not ordering the tail kit. Except $$,
that is.
Dave Hyde
davehyde(at)tecnet1.jcte.jcs.mil
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | doug(at)Alliant.COM (Doug Bloomberg) |
Howdy,
In Earl's letter he thought that the Nigerians concerns for a gear leg
coming into the cockpit were unfounded.
-------Earl's Letter-------
I don't know about a glass tail spring, but the glass main gear on
Van's RV-6T prototype has been nothing but trouble. It seems the stuff
fails progressively and begins to sag after a short while. I heard
the gear change was motivated by the Nigerians who were concerned about
the possiblity the steel gear might come through the floor in a hard
(crash) landing. They wanted something that would fold up instead.
Well, they achieved that and more! In my opinion their concerns with
the steel gear were unfounded and I guess Van wasn't too happy with the
idea in the first place.
Earl Brabandt RV-6 N66VR (in progressdadsfasdfasdf:
------ End Letter ------
I attended Kerrville EAA flyin this year. A nice flyin by the way. Lots of
RV's there.
But we are talking about landing gear. As Kerrville wound down and folks
were leaving there was an incident. The former Tony Bengelis Tail dragger
RV-6 ground looped on take off. There was a 10-15 Kn wind at coming
perpendicular to the runway from the left. The new owner lifted the tail
a little too early, the RV weathervaned lifted the left wing, and sat the
plane down on the gear. The bolt/mount for the right main gear gave way.
The RV ended up sitting on the left main, tail wheel, and right wing tip.
The right main leg was shoved up and almost thru the cowl. Bob Brasher
spent the morning rewelding the gear mount. There was minimal damage
to the wing tip.
That is precisely what I felt was the weak link in the RV-6A's steel
landing gear. Maybe a steel strap over the top of the weldment for the
landing gear strut might help. Also, spring steel gear legs might be
an answer.
Another short story, a friend who flies a Mustang II, he's average flight
experiance and a very careful pilot. Well, last month he was landing
on runway 28. The wind while he was on final changed from 340 at 5
to 040 at 6. He thought he had compensated, he had had to land before in
simular circumstances. But, what had changed was a very low level wind
shear. The long and short of it was he just stopped flying about 10ft
above the runway. He hit hard but after one bounce the rollout was normal.
The pilot when he shut down at his hanger noticed that the plane seemed
lower to the ground, about 8 in lower. Further examination disclosed
that the landing gear torque tubes had twisted about 15 degrees out and
about 5 degrees up. Now, another friend who has flown his Mustang II for
22 years said that an axiom of Mustang flyers is,"there are those that have
bent their torque tubes and those that will bend their torque tubes."
The lesson here is any average flyer can get caught, and the plane no
matter what type can and will make a hard landing on occasion.
Van's gear is not perfect, but nothing in life is perfect.
Just something else to think about.
Doug Bloomberg
RV-6 builder, Editor of the "Rocky Mountain RVators"
ps I caught some of the disscussion about reflexing of flaps, are there
any conclusions, pro or con???
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Earl Brabandt <earlb(at)SSD.intel.com> |
| Subject: | weak landing gear |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Earl Brabandt <earlb(at)SSD.intel.com> |
| Subject: | weak landing gear |
Doug had an interesting accounts of a gear failure on a -6.
I didn't mean to imply that the Nigerians wanted a stronger gear.
As I heard it, they were more concerned with safety to the pilot and
passenger if a gear leg entered the cabin. At least in Tony Bengelis'
former RV-6, it looks like it was well on its way through the cowl
area rather than the cabin. True, the Negerians were buying trikes
and the nosedragger setup might be more likely to fail through the
cabin. I guess it would take a bit of destructive testing to really
find out. I'm certainly not volunteering my airplane!
Earl Brabandt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Wentz <Don_Wentz(at)ccm.hf.intel.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Aft CoG business |
> have thought problem would have been less prevalent than with one
> behind other seating. I did see the previous RVator where Van explained
> that seating configs made no difference. I confess I still don't quite
> understand it. I'll have to re-read the articles.
The problem is that the single RV-4 pilot sits farther forward than the
RV-6 pilot(s). So adding the rear seater is not much different than
having 2 in the -6. This also gives the -4 pilot better over-the-nose
visibility for ground handling (compared to the tail-dragger -6).
What about wing-tip strobes?
don w. RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Wentz <Don_Wentz(at)ccm.hf.intel.com> |
| Subject: | Re[2]: glass gear |
Doug, excellent discussion on landing gear.
I was involved in that reflexing stuff. My 'conclusion' was that it
might not be that difficult to do with the electric flap setup. Just
'mis-adjust' the flaps-up position.
The main problem I can think of so far is, how to deal with the flap
"under-lap" where the bottom flap skin contacts the fuselage and covers
the push-rod fuselage exit hole.
For experimentation purposes, you could cut that off I suppose,
allowing the flap to go past "0 degrees". But, who among us RV-6
builders wants to be the first to do it to his RV?
It does sound like a fun and not toooooo difficult experiment to try.
I intend to keep thinking about the implications and possibilities as I
get closer to installing the wings.
I wonder if a micro switch could be set-up to stop the flap at '0',
with an 'override' switch that would allow you to continue into reflex
mode?
Interesting....
don w. RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Earl Brabandt <earlb(at)SSD.intel.com> |
Doug had an interesting accounts of a gear failure on a -6.
I didn't mean to imply that the Nigerians wanted a stronger gear.
As I heard it, they were more concerned with safety to the pilot and
passenger if a gear leg entered the cabin. At least in Tony Bengelis'
former RV-6, it looks like it was well on its way through the cowl
area rather than the cabin. True, the Negerians were buying trikes
and the nosedragger setup might be more likely to fail through the
cabin. I guess it would take a bit of destructive testing to really
find out. I'm certainly not volunteering my airplane!
Earl Brabandt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Wentz <Don_Wentz(at)ccm.hf.intel.com> |
| Subject: | Re: lurker no more |
----- Begin Included Message -----
> he aft cg situation. It looks like if you have a conventional gear -6
> with a wooden prop you may not be packin much baggage! It seems the
> only solution is to spend an extra $3-4 K for a CS prop. (Not to
> mention the shipping charges to exchange my cowling?)
I have considered this issue and this is my current plan: I have an
engine capable of taking a CS (O-360-A) prop, but don't want to spend
the $4K+ right now. I already sold my starter and alternator and am
changing to light-weight. So, instead of adding or retaining weight, I
plan to install my oil cooler in front of the engine under the intake.
I also am going to use the Oberg oil filter instead of a spin-on, and
will mount it on the opposite side from the cooler. This 'should' xfer
some weight as far forward as possible, and help.
One problem with this is, how do I upgrade to a CS prop later, if I use
a standard prop cowl now? They don't make spacers for the wooden props
that fit with the CS cowl, I have found. So, I am looking into getting
a standard spacer and having a custom spinner made that will span the 2
or so inches back to the cowl, so I can install the CS cowl now (it
would be a bugger to try and replace the cowl later).
Any other bright ideas on this? I will keep you posted on the result.
> How have other -6 owners who are flying dealt with this? I was
> wondering if it is possible or prudent to see if the tailspring could
> be lightened or possibly replaced with a composite. Van has mentioned
> composite gear for his fighter version.
Where did this myth of composites being so light come from? As Beech
found on the Starship, in most applications you have to make the stuff
so thick that it ends-up heavier than aluminum construction would have
been.
If you want to save weight at the tail, DON'T put a strobe supply back
there, DON'T put lights back there, DON'T put in electric elevator and
rudder trim (like I did), and just watch your weight back there.
One last idea that I have heard bandied-about lately, move the battery
to the engine side of the firewall. Who wants to be first!?!?
Later on, don
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Krieg <chris(at)cis.ohio-state.edu> |
Hello all. I am in the process of finishing up the right wintank construction
and had some questions about proseal before I actually order it. Is Proseal
very temperature sensative or will it cure at lower temps?? My little heater
puts out enough heat to keep the shop warm enough to work in, but just barely
when the old thermometer dips low. If it is temp sensative, does it have much
of an odor? I had thought about bringing the whole tank inside and sealing it
in my model workshop, but since this doubles as my son's bedroom, I can't have
a lot of fumes lingering while the tank cures and my son sleeps.
If it comes down to it, I'll just wait til spring to order the proseal and
seal the tanks.
Chris Krieg
________________________________________________________________________________
for thebes!pilchuck!seahcx!rv-list%matronics.com
| From: | misg!seahcx!dralle%matronics.com(at)travis.csd.harris.com (Matthew G. Dralle |
510-422-4896)
sea!rv-list%matronics.com
| Subject: | Re: Progress update and some questions. |
> 1) Matt: Can you send me the available information on your electric trim
> installation including any drawings (eg. elevator cutout and horn diagrams)
> you have? I don't remember if you were giving out the schematic for your
> governor or is it just for purchase. Please let me know. My mailing address
is:
> Doug Medema
> 7401 E. Heather Way
> Everett, WA 98203
>
Yes, I will send you the plans that I made up.
You will need to purchase an assembled Governor from Van's or direct from
me. The functionality it provides is well worth the cost. Hurry and
order your Governors now because the next batch will be at a higher price.
Currently, they are $39.95 but the but subsequent batchs will be at $67.50. I
got tired of working on these things for nothing!! Even at the new price, the
Governor is a good deal.
Matt Dralle
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle (Matthew G. Dralle 510-422-4896) |
| Subject: | New Member of RV-LIST... |
> From: ward(at)s1.gov
> Subject: Re: RV Builders - What Primer?
>
> Hi Matt,
> Glad to meet you! The list of 30 or so, are these people here at the Lab
> or just in the local area?? Yes, by all means, please send me your back
> postings on primer and put me on the list.
> What forum does the group communicate through?
> I sure would like to have lunch with you some day to kick around RV
> stuff.
> Talk to later and thanks for getting back to me.
>
> Rich
>
Welcome to the RV-list Rich! Please tell the group a little bit about
your project. The rv-list group is made up of mostly rv builders from around
the world!
****** NOTE ******
Rich Ward, Doug Miner, Earl Brabandt, Mike Pilla, Chris Schulte, Michael
Goldsmith, Rodney Sinclair, Rick Gracely, and Bret Marquis:
Please send me your paper address and phone number. I have a database of all
the rv-list members and you guys are missing information. Thanks!!!
Matt Dralle
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle (Matthew G. Dralle 510-422-4896) |
| Subject: | FAA Airport Database... |
I just talked with a man from the FAA about the database that they supply for
all of the airports and other aircraft related items. He indicated that the
complete airport only database was 90 mb!! The only format that they can
supply the data on is a 9-track tape. Well, I don't happen to have one of
these on my workstation at home, and was wondering if anyone knew of a company
or source that supplied this information via a modem connection, floppy
disks, email, or whatever that might be a bit more compatible with the rest
of the world?
Matt Dralle
________________________________________________________________________________
Matt Writes:
> I just talked with a man from the FAA about the database that they supply fo
> all of the airports and other aircraft related items. He indicated that the
> complete airport only database was 90 mb!! The only format that they can
> supply the data on is a 9-track tape. Well, I don't happen to have one of
> these on my workstation at home, and was wondering if anyone knew of a compa
> or source that supplied this information via a modem connection, floppy
> disks, email, or whatever that might be a bit more compatible with the rest
> of the world?
If you can get the Data from the FAA, and the tape you are refuring to is
a 9-Track Round Tape (or maybe even a square cartridge, but I think these are
all 18-Track) Then I can mount the tape here were I work and port it the data
to my workstation. Then I can send it out to whoever wants it.
Chris.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle (Matthew G. Dralle 510-422-4896) |
rv-list(at)matronics.com
| Subject: | Re: 9-Track Tape |
>
>
> Matt Writes:
>
> > I just talked with a man from the FAA about the database that they supply fo
> > all of the airports and other aircraft related items. He indicated that the
> > complete airport only database was 90 mb!! The only format that they can
> > supply the data on is a 9-track tape. Well, I don't happen to have one of
> > these on my workstation at home, and was wondering if anyone knew of a compa
> > or source that supplied this information via a modem connection, floppy
> > disks, email, or whatever that might be a bit more compatible with the rest
> > of the world?
>
> If you can get the Data from the FAA, and the tape you are refuring to is
> a 9-Track Round Tape (or maybe even a square cartridge, but I think these are
> all 18-Track) Then I can mount the tape here were I work and port it the data
> to my workstation. Then I can send it out to whoever wants it.
>
>
> Chris.
>
Thanks for the offer, Chris. However, I discovered an FTP source for most of
the data. If you're interesrted, it seas.smu.edu under the flight directory.
Matt Dralle
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | moody(at)cyclone.mitre.org (John C. Moody) |
RV-6 project update
I have finished all drilling of the lower portion of the tailcone.
However, I decided to continue drilling the lower skins for the baggage
and seat areas so I would have a nice lap joint. (not sure how you would
dimple the new lap holes if aft skin of lap is prior riveted?)
Also drilled the F670 side skins to make sure i had the lap
with the tail cone covered. The dreaded cone shaped bent in side skins
is not a perfect joint in that it does not contact the tail cone
skin in a perfectly flat way. I was able to work it into a bit of a
flare at the aft end with a narrow hand seamer.
Van says to drill the lower tail cone skin to the longeron on 3" spacings
so the 1" space of the upper tail skin will mot interfere. My question is
do you simply cntrsk through the lower .025 skin into the longeron for these
later holes? Normally .025 is too thin for ctrsk.
Chris Moody
RV-6
Silver SPring Md
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | davehyde(at)tecnet1.jcte.jcs.mil |
| Subject: | Panic sets in... |
OK, I've finally done it. I got my tail kit via UPS about two weeks ago.
Now, with the holidays pretty much out of the way, I can finally inventory and
start. As soon as I stop shaking (it started when I opened the first box),
that is.
Dave Hyde
davehyde(at)tecnet1.jcte.jcs.mil
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | davehyde(at)tecnet1.jcte.jcs.mil |
| Subject: | Squeezer troubles |
Let's see if you guys can help save me some time!
I got a 3" yoke squeezer from USATCO (not US Tool) that I may have problems
with. When practicing riveting I've found that short rivets squeeze well, but
if the rivet is slightly too long or just about the right length the rivet
shears to one side. The yoke jaws do move slightly, but I've been told this
shouldn't cause it if the movement is slight. I've used a TATCO squeezer and
noted similar movement, but got good heads on the rivets (the pieces here were
clecoed). Details and questions:
Details:
Two pieces 0.032 2024-T3 Al
3/32" holes, drilled and dimpled (using this squeezer)
Pieces are NOT clecoed after drilling (the order isn't in yet)
AN426-AD3-3 rivets: Squeeze OK, but head isn't high enough.
-3.5 rivets: Start to shear (very slightly, probably OK) but head
isn't quite high enough.
-4 rivets: Shear badly, no chance of an acceptable head.
Questions:
Could the pieces shifting cause some of the shearing?
Is there anything I can do with this squeezer?
Anyone had any experience with USATCO and returns?
???
My tail kit sits and waits....
Thanks in advance
Dave Hyde
davehyde(at)tecnet1.jcte.jcs.mil
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Hand Squeezer.... |
>
> I got a 3" yoke squeezer from USATCO (not US Tool) that I may have problems
> with. When practicing riveting I've found that short rivets squeeze well, b
> if the rivet is slightly too long or just about the right length the rivet
> shears to one side. The yoke jaws do move slightly, but I've been told this
> shouldn't cause it if the movement is slight. I've used a TATCO squeezer an
> noted similar movement, but got good heads on the rivets (the pieces here we
> clecoed). Details and questions:
>
> ...Details Deleted...
>
> Questions:
>
> Could the pieces shifting cause some of the shearing?
> Is there anything I can do with this squeezer?
> Anyone had any experience with USATCO and returns?
> ???
>
> Dave Hyde
>
Dave:
I got a TASCO squeezer myself. I've got a 1" and 3" Yoke, and usually
use the 3" yoke for everything. In hand squeezing it is very important to
use the right sized rivet. Either buy a rivet guage for about $2.75 from
AVERY in Texas, or practice up on your math! I bought the guage... But after
a little experience you'll be able to sight them with just you eye.
Second important factor is if you cut you rivets to size you have to make
sure the cut is straight. An angled cut will cuase the shop head to fall
over quite easily. Last thing isd the rivet most sit in the hole perfectly
perpendicular. If the rivet is cocked at all this will enduce a fall over.
If you think your squeezer is the problem... Send it back! No sence
in spending money on a tool that will question the quality of you aircraft.
There is one more thing you can try. Instead of ussing a Flat set on the
Machine & Shop head. Use a Flat on the Manufactured head and 3/32 dish set
on the shop head side. This may help to keep you shop heads straight.
Happy Riveting!
Chris.
RV-6 #21390
San Jose CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Morrissey J <John.Morrissey(at)its.csiro.au> |
| Subject: | Re: Squeezer troubles |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | davehyde(at)tecnet1.jcte.jcs.mil |
| Subject: | Squeezer troubles |
Let's see if you guys can help save me some time!
I got a 3" yoke squeezer from USATCO (not US Tool) that I may have problems
with. When practicing riveting I've found that short rivets squeeze well, but
if the rivet is slightly too long or just about the right length the rivet
shears to one side. The yoke jaws do move slightly, but I've been told this
shouldn't cause it if the movement is slight. I've used a TATCO squeezer and
noted similar movement, but got good heads on the rivets (the pieces here were
clecoed). Details and questions:
Details:
Two pieces 0.032 2024-T3 Al
3/32" holes, drilled and dimpled (using this squeezer)
Pieces are NOT clecoed after drilling (the order isn't in yet)
AN426-AD3-3 rivets: Squeeze OK, but head isn't high enough.
-3.5 rivets: Start to shear (very slightly, probably OK) but head
isn't quite high enough.
-4 rivets: Shear badly, no chance of an acceptable head.
Questions:
Could the pieces shifting cause some of the shearing?
Is there anything I can do with this squeezer?
Anyone had any experience with USATCO and returns?
???
My tail kit sits and waits....
Thanks in advance
Dave Hyde
davehyde(at)tecnet1.jcte.jcs.mil
Hi Dave,
All you need is a bit of practise. The squeezers you
have got are one of the better one on the market. I had
the same sort of problems when I first started to use the
squeezers. What you have to do is to firstly make sure that
you start your rivit with the tool perfectly square on
the head of the rivit then as you squeeze you must monitor
the progress of the squeeze. If the rivit starts to drift
you can still stear the rivit back into line by releasing
the tool and re-applying the tool at a slight angle to bring
it back into line.
Good luck! and just a bit more practise!!!!
John Morrissey
VH-HRV Vans RV6
VH-??? Vans RV4 under construction
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark Richardson" <richards(at)hawk.nstn.ns.ca> |
| Subject: | RV Builders - Atlantic Canada |
Hi folks
Sorry that every one must get this, but I'm wondering if there are any
RV builders on the list from Atlantic Canada. I'm building an RV-6 (tail
almost complete) and would like to take a peek at a project that is
further along.
BTW, all the stuff that has been on the list lately has been great.
Later
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ray Belbin <ccrdb(at)jcu.edu.au> |
| Subject: | Wings over America for some time! |
John,
Got a fax at home this morning 6.00 am from Vans. It woke me up.
Part of it says "Wing Kits are scheduled for delivery in early May". Looks
like I'll be thumb-twiddling for a while!
Ray
VH-ZAP (RV6A under construction)
(empenage 90% done)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Morrissey J <John.Morrissey(at)its.csiro.au> |
| Subject: | Re: Wings over America for some time! |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ray Belbin <ccrdb(at)jcu.edu.au> |
| Subject: | Wings over America for some time! |
John,
Got a fax at home this morning 6.00 am from Vans. It woke me up.
Part of it says "Wing Kits are scheduled for delivery in early May". Looks
like I'll be thumb-twiddling for a while!
Ray
VH-ZAP (RV6A under construction)
(empenage 90% done)
Gidday Ray
Tell me about it, Im climbing the walls at the moment. The workshop has
been cleaned out - twice, the car's have been washed and polished and
I've even done the gardening. (which I really hate)
Come on Mr Van's.
The only thing I've got to look forward to at the moment in Mangalore.
Time to tidy up the old Jodel and dust off the charts.
See you there !!
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Wentz <Don_Wentz(at)ccm.hf.intel.com> |
Well, I've sat in the seats and played with the sticks and rudder
pedals, and tried my panel mock-up. Fun stuff. Picking-up my
finishing kit today.
Might actually hang the engine next month.
don wentz
rv-6 20369
________________________________________________________________________________
My EAA Chapter, 338 of San Jose, will be meeting in my Hanger/Garage this
Sunday from 1:00 to 3:00 to see how Metal Planes are put together (In my
case it's just Metal Wings! Anyway... I thought I'd let you know that
anyone of you are more then welcome to stop by and critize. That is if
you don't live too far from RHV. (I'm about 3 miles by car, 2.5 by foot
or 2 as the crow flies)
If you need directions, I'll be seting up my answering machine on Sunday
morning with turn left, turn right etc.. The number is (408) 274-9249
Or if you need to talk to me you can page me at (408) 999-5259. Key in
your number at the tone from any touch tone phone. Then hang up.
Chris.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dbloomberg(at)Solbourne.COM (Doug Bloomberg) |
| Subject: | change of email addr. |
Howdy folks,
Please note the change of address for my email.
it is now dbloomberg(at)solbourne.com
Thanks for changing this, and the good input from the group.
Doug Bloomberg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Morrissey J <John.Morrissey(at)its.csiro.au> |
| Subject: | Hurray - the kits on its way!!!! |
matronics.com by commsun.its.CSIRO.AU with SMTP id AA02285
To all in RV-List land.
I arrived home last night to find the bill of loading for my
RV4 wing kit and my mate's RV6 kit in my letterbox. The beast
is at this time bobbing along in the Pacific on its way to my
workshop. It was shipped on the 30th Decemeber 1992.
Yippee!! I'm out of the garden and back in the workshop.
I'II keep you all posted.
John Morrissey
Jodel D11 VH-JSP
Van's RV4 VH-???
________________________________________________________________________________
My EAA Chapter, 338 of San Jose, will be meeting in my Hanger/Garage this
Sunday from 1:00 to 3:00 to see how Metal Planes are put together (In my
case it's just Metal Wings! Anyway... I thought I'd let you know that
anyone of you are more then welcome to stop by and criticize. That is if
you don't live too far from RHV. (I'm about 3 miles by car, 2.5 by foot
or 2 as the crow flies)
If you need directions, I'll be setting up my answering machine on Sunday
morning with turn left, turn right etc... The number is (408) 274-9249
Or if you need to talk to me you can page me at (408) 999-5259. Key in
your number at the tone from any touch tone phone. Then hang up.
Chris.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle (Matthew G. Dralle 510-422-4896) |
| Subject: | Re: electric trim |
> Sorry for posting this to the list (well, sort of), but
> I'm not sure of Matt's address. I've seen mention of
> sketches or plans for mods for electric elevator trim.
> The servo, etc, I'm not too worried about, but what about the
> smaller trim tab horn, mounting locations, etc? I'm trying
> to plan a bit ahead, and any info anyone can provide would
> be appreciated.
>
> Also, planning _way_ ahead, can anyone suggest methods
> for electric aileron trim?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Dave Hyde
> davehyde(at)tecnet1.jcte.jcs.mil
>
> RV-4 Tail underway, and the shakes have subsided.
> "I can't screw up anything that money can't fix."
> Me, 7 hours into the horizontal tail spars.
>
Dave,
I have plans for this kind of installation (elv trim). If you send my your
address, I'll send you the plans and a brochure on The Governor. The Governor
is an electronic switching and servo speed control device I manufacture. No RV
trim system should be without one.
As far as ailerom trim, Van's makes a really slick kit for this that's about
$15. This would be an excellent application for the Governor as well.
Matt Dralle
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | duck(at)hfglobe.intel.com (Don Wentz) |
dralle(at)hfglobe.intel.com (Matthew G. Dralle 510-422-4896)
| Subject: | Re: electric trim |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | duck(at)hfglobe.intel.com (Don Wentz) |
dralle(at)hfglobe.intel.com (Matthew G. Dralle 510-422-4896)
| Subject: | Re: electric trim |
Van's also has an electric elevator trim that is maybe easier to install than Matt's,
but not as clean (it has an external tab where Matt's is internal). It
uses the same servo and you buy a 'kit in a bag' with plans and parts.
dder trim. It took weeks to do, but will be worth it, if it works.
Mounting my tailfeathers this weekend.
don w. RV-6
PS - If you don't have one, you should call Van's and request the Optional Parts
Catalog.
?
?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Morrissey J <John.Morrissey(at)its.csiro.au> |
Just been to the mailbox and guess what!!!
The shipping company say our rv6 and rv4 kits will arrive in Sydney
Australia on Febuary 6th.
I wonder how long grass can grow in 18 to 24 months?? Thats how
long it took to build the last one.
joy oh joy no more gardening!!!!
John Morrissey
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark Richardson" <richards(at)hawk.nstn.ns.ca> |
Hi Folks,
I was visiting a friend the other day who is building an RV-4, and he
showed me the seats and upholstery he got from D.J. Lauritsen (sp?).
The quality was EXCELLENT, looked great, and he says it was a LOT cheaper
than Alexander Aircraft Company (given the quality level I guess. I
don't know exact dollar figures, but it was cheaper).
Anyway, thought I'd mention it in case any of you were at that stage where
you were thinking about interiors.
Still working on the tail feathers...
Mark (RV-6)
*********************************************************************
Mark Richardson Software Kinetics Ltd
Project Engineer VOX 902-468-3680
richards(at)hawk.nstn.ns.ca FAX 902-468-3679
*********************************************************************
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | davehyde(at)tecnet1.jcte.jcs.mil |
Squeezed most of the (1/8") rivets on the aft horizontal tail spar last night.
Thanks for the advice on the squeezer, everybody. When the pieces are held
rigid the rivets don't shear when squeezed (at least not much. How much shear
is ok?).
How do y'all protect your hands when squeezing? With the pressure required
for -4 rivets my hands have gotten slightly bruised and sore. I expected
this, and can live with it, but if anyone has any suggestions, fire away.
Dave Hyde
davehyde(at)tecnet1.jcte.jcs.mil
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edtipx.edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
> Squeezed most of the (1/8") rivets on the aft horizontal tail spar last night.
>
> ....
>
> How do y'all protect your hands when squeezing? With the pressure required
> for -4 rivets my hands have gotten slightly bruised and sore. I expected
> this, and can live with it, but if anyone has any suggestions, fire away.
>
> Dave Hyde
My suggestion would be: try bucking them! I wouldn't presume to say which is
the 'right' way (I'm just a rookie at this myself), but it took me about 2 of
those 1/8" jobbies with my Tatco Squeezer to decide that I'd rather use a rivet
gun -- I'll *bet* your hands are sore! I used the squeezer only where I had
trouble getting a good head with the rivet gun, usually where the hole was
somewhat oversized (not as rare as I'd like - I drilled out quite a few while I
learned the basics of bucking rivets)
Currently I have both the VS and HS skeletons completed and I have the VS skin
almost ready to rivet on, just need to prime it. The HS skins come next (I
know, it's completely out of sequence with the manual. I guess I'm just a
rebel at heart. Considering doing the fuse before the wings, even...)
Randall Henderson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Morrissey J <John.Morrissey(at)its.csiro.au> |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | davehyde(at)tecnet1.jcte.jcs.mil |
Squeezed most of the (1/8") rivets on the aft horizontal tail spar last night.
Thanks for the advice on the squeezer, everybody. When the pieces are held
rigid the rivets don't shear when squeezed (at least not much. How much shear
is ok?).
How do y'all protect your hands when squeezing? With the pressure required
for -4 rivets my hands have gotten slightly bruised and sore. I expected
this, and can live with it, but if anyone has any suggestions, fire away.
Gidday Dave
Since you can assume that the rivet squeezers are rated for the 1/8 rivets
and the head will not break while you are doing them why not try a bit
of mechanical advantage and slip a couple of bits of tube over the handles
I find an extra 6 in of handle can work wonders. Also you could go down
to the local pushbike shop and buy a pair of plastic grips. A thicker
handle is a lot easier on the hands.
good luck
John Morrissey
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | davehyde(at)tecnet1.jcte.jcs.mil |
Thanks for the help, guys. I finished riveting the aft HS spar last night.
Squeezed 'em all. I ended up wearing gloves and shifting my hand position.
Had to squeeze harder, but the handles don't dig into my palms now. As it
was, it took about 3-4 hr (total) including drilling out and re-squeezing 9
rivets, fewer than I expected. I'm looking forward to -3 rivets, tho.
Dave Hyde
davehyde(at)tecnet1.jcte.jcs.mil
So I said to the Navy, "These are my opinions,
go and get your own."
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | davehyde(at)tecnet1.jcte.jcs.mil |
It looks like I'm going to be in the Seattle area (actually Whidbey Island, but
it's close as far as I'm concerned) in mid-Feb. Any suggestions on what I
should do or see, besides a side trip to Van's?
Thanks,
DH
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Side Trip to VANs |
I'm planning to fly to Portland/Vancouver WA on FEB 12th and will be stopping
in at VANs & possible Phlogistions to take a look at things and maybe bum a
ride in the Demo RV-6. Last time I flew up there it was IFR most of the route
and not good enough weather for a spin.
I want to stop by and check out a Phlogistons FUEL tanks that they are offer-
ing. A number of builders down here have asked me if I thought the be worth
what they're asking.... I said I'd let them know when I saw them.
About this hand squeezing thing.... I'm not into building muscles, just air
planes! I use a Rivet Gun for all my 1/8" rivets. The hand squeezer is good
for nut plates and edge skins.
Keep pounding um...
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jmbrown(at)netcom.com (John M. Brown) |
Well I took my first ride in an RV-4. Boy that back seat is tight!
I think that I'll get the RV-6 instead.
I now understand why there are so many RV-x planes being built!!!!!!
Hey is there anyone on the net that has an RV-6 and lives in the Bay area
that would be willing to trade lunch and questions for a flight?? I'd
really like to fly a RV-6 before I start ordering the parts. If so please
send me email at netcom.com addr.... Thanks
I want to thank EAA chapter 119 and Jack Hill for the flight and time
he spent with me today talking about his RV-4!!! This is what its all about
in my book.!!!
--
-------sig cut here-------
jmbrown(at)netcom.com HAL == IBM
jmbrown(at)diagsoft.com WNT == VMS Hmmm Dave where did
Diagsoft, Inc. Makers of QAPLUS the NT really come frm
(408) 438-8247
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | davehyde(at)tecnet1.jcte.jcs.mil |
The sun came out and the humidity dropped yesterday, so I
finally got to finish priming! The aft HS spar is now
complete and riveted (has been for a while), the fwd HS spar
and the aft VS spar are ready for riveting. Tonight I
should have all spars complete (I shouldn't say that).
Question: At what point are you committed to the longitudinal
trim method (manual/electric)? I'm definately going with
elec. trim,and it sounds like the elec. servo mounts in
the elevator (still waiting for my drawings), but I want
to be sure before I start skinning the HS. Suggestions?
thanks,
DH
________________________________________________________________________________
Hi Gang,
I finally ordered my Rv-4 empennage kit, been building work benches and
the tail-wing fixture, getting the garage in order, and in general been
tooling up for the great adventure.
I've been looking around for some of the power tools on Van's
"recommended list" and need some advice or recommendations from you guys
that might have some of these tools. The one tool that I need the most
help on is the bandsaw. I've looked at the whole range of them from small
table tops to the Delta 14" free standing models. Only the Delta 14"
wood/metal saw goes the recommended slow speed of 300fpm (that Van's
recommendation) but it cost $1200+. All the single speed wood models I've
seen say they cut soft metals. It seems to me that the low speeds are only
needed to cut hard metals. The questions I have are the following:
- How important is the low speed cutting?
- Do the wood models cover 90% of the cutting jobs? Do they work at all?
- What about minimum size and hp? Delta has a nice little table top for
$200.
Would it be to small for the job?
With regard to 1" belt sanders: most of these also have a sanding disk.
Any tradeoffs between a 6" or 8" disk?
With regard to drill presses: Van's say it should go down to 100 rpm. I
can't find one that goes that slow. I found some Jet models that go 200
rpm. I assume that that is slow enough to cut lightening holes. Right or
wrong???
Thanks in advance,
- Rich
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dbloomberg(at)Solbourne.COM (Doug Bloomberg) |
Howdy,
Bandsaws; Get a tabletop, with a throat of 12". Buy a metal cutting
blade 14 or 18 teeth/inch and cut away. Non Ferrous metal (aluminum)
does not require slow cutting speeds. The bench top saw can be lifted
to the worktable and then stored when not needed. Also it is handy
to make the holding fixtures and wooden clamps etc. You can get
a bandsaw for about $130.00 at discount stores.
note: a saber saw with masking tape on the sole plate (reduces scratches)
can be used instead of band saw.
Drill press: Get a floor mounted drill press, I think mine will go
to 170 or 190 rpm. The flycutter is the MOST dangerous tool you
will use in the shop. All the flycutters I have seen have a max rpm of
500 rpm. A good drill press is worth the investment. You can get
a very serviceable unit for ~$215.00.
Air compressor: (I know you didn't ask but $.02 anyway) I have found
that the new oil less ones work great. No oil to contaminate paint,
no oil to change, usually works on 117V at 15A. Available at Sear's
or Ward's for ~$300.00 The are 3 to 3.5 HP 100psi with a 20 or graeter
gallon tank.
Doug Bloomberg
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Earl Brabandt <earlb(at)SSD.intel.com> |
> The one tool that I need the most help on is the bandsaw.
> - How important is the low speed cutting?
IMHO, important only for steel.
> - Do the wood models cover 90% of the cutting jobs? Do they work at all?
Probably. I have one of the small 56" Sears wood saws that was on sale
a while back. It works fine on all the angles and bar stock I've cut on
the RV. (Like a lot of tools, I didn't think I needed a bandsaw until
I got one--now I wish I'd had it sooner.) A table saw is still probably
the way to go with the wing spar strips because it's easier to rig to
cut all those strips quickly at the proper taper angle. Sears does not have
as good a selection of blades as one of our local tool vendors and it's
worth looking for fine tooth 1/4" blades for straight cutting elsewhere.
> - What about minimum size and hp? Delta has a nice little table top for
> $200.
Mine's 1/3 HP. The smallest Delta is 1/5 HP. I've never felt it was power
limited on the numerous small aluminum RV parts. In fact, I think the Delta
has a better reach than the Sears baby saw and this is probably an advantage
occasionally--but it's a bit more expensive too.
> Would it be too small for the job?
Should work for most of the AL in the RV.
> With regard to drill presses: Van's say it should go down to 100 rpm. I
> can't find one that goes that slow.
I cut all the lightning holes for my wings with no difficulty on a friend's press
that only went down to about 600 rpm. I now have one that goes to something
less than 200 rpm and I don't think it's very important.
Earl RV-6 N66VR (fuse skeleton all jigged, slap me some skin!!!, ba-boom :-)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | lackerma(at)rad.rpslmc.edu (lauren ackerman) |
I have heard some are putting the servo motor in the tail area and
connecting the servo to the tab with a short cable. This allows one
to do the usual setup for cable in the tail and delay the
decision...also, it make the installation easier.
laurens
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Earl Brabandt <earlb(at)SSD.intel.com> |
Hi,
Our mailer kicked this back. I don't think it made
it to the list the first time either so here's take two.
> The one tool that I need the most help on is the bandsaw.
> - How important is the low speed cutting?
IMHO, important only for steel.
> - Do the wood models cover 90% of the cutting jobs? Do they work at all?
Probably. I have one of the small 56" Sears wood saws that was on sale
a while back. It works fine on all the angles and bar stock I've cut on
the RV. (Like a lot of tools, I didn't think I needed a bandsaw until
I got one--now I wish I'd had it sooner.) A table saw is still probably
the way to go with the wing spar strips because it's easier to rig to
cut all those strips quickly at the proper taper angle. Sears does not have
as good a selection of blades as one of our local tool vendors and it's
worth looking for fine tooth 1/4" blades for straight cutting elsewhere.
> - What about minimum size and hp? Delta has a nice little table top for
> $200.
Mine's 1/3 HP. The smallest Delta is 1/5 HP. I've never felt it was power
limited on the numerous small aluminum RV parts. In fact, I think the Delta
has a better reach than the Sears baby saw and this is probably an advantage
occasionally--but it's a bit more expensive too.
> Would it be too small for the job?
Should work for most of the AL in the RV.
> With regard to drill presses: Van's say it should go down to 100 rpm. I
> can't find one that goes that slow.
I cut all the lightning holes for my wings with no difficulty on a friend's press
that only went down to about 600 rpm. I now have one that goes to something
less than 200 rpm and I don't think it's very important.
Earl RV-6 N66VR (fuse skeleton all jigged, slap me some skin!!!, ba-boom :-)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | christopher.schulte(at)amail.amdahl.com |
> >To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> >X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]
>
> Hi,
>
> Our mailer kicked this back. I don't think it made
> it to the list the first time either so here's take two.
>
>
> Earl RV-6 N66VR (fuse skeleton all jigged, slap me some skin!!!, ba-boom :-)
>
Your mail is working fine... I think it mail being sent to Ed Wischmeyer
that is bouncing back to you??? (at least that's the kick back mail that I've
been getting) Ed is no longer at Apple, so MATT I guess you should drop him
from the list (Hint Hint)
Chris.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle (Matthew G. Dralle 510-422-4896) |
| Subject: | Re: RV-4 RV-6 Mailing list... |
> I am just starting the process. I have deceided that I want to build an
> airplane, and that it must at least sit two people and fly no slower than
> 140 Knts cruz. I like the idea of metal vs composite, since I have more
> exp. / faith in my skill set, and have seen plenty of flying RV planes.
> Though I havm't flown in one yet, would like to !!
>
> I am currently a student for my power private, have my glider private
> and should get my power ticket in another 2 - 3 months. I am going
> through a normal training program, with the execption that its fast. eg
> I'll solo a 150 at around 15 hrs, and was doing take-offs and landings
> my first time out. Prior exp. But I want to make sure that I do NOT
> miss anything, because I have seen to many bite the dust in my life.
> I still wanna be flying when I am 70. if medical lets me.
>
> Current age 25, job: software geek (Eng.)
> Windows/NT based development.
>
> Fly out of Watsonville.
>
> I guess you are and livermore? llnl or is it LANL? (Lost Almost)
> I used to live in NM.
>
> jmbrown(at)netcom.com HAL == IBM
> jmbrown(at)diagsoft.com WNT == VMS Hmmm Dave where did
> Diagsoft, Inc. Makers of QAPLUS the NT really come frm
> (408) 438-8247
>
>
Sounds good Dave. Post freely to the rv-list.
Matt Dralle
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark Richardson" <hawk.nstn.ns.ca(at)hawk.nstn.ns.ca> |
Hi Folks,
I was speaking to a friend the other day who is building a -4, and he said
that any good metal primer from a hardware store will work (ie. Canadian
Tire here in Canada and maybe Ace or something in the States). Is this
true ? Since Zinc Chromate is a Carcenogen (sp?) and both of my parents
have died of Cancer, I'm staying away from it.
Oh, by the way, I deleted the message about the elevator trim, but I just
got my electric trim kit last Friday (w/o servo). You can hold off on your
decision until you need to rivet the skin to the the elevator.
Later
Mark
*********************************************************************
Mark Richardson Software Kinetics Ltd
Project Engineer VOX 902-468-3680
richards(at)hawk.nstn.ns.ca FAX 902-468-3679
RV-6 (temporarily incomplete)
*********************************************************************
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | davehyde(at)tecnet1.jcte.jcs.mil |
| Subject: | Rivet substitutes |
I knew I shouldn't have said I'd finish the spars last night! I've got a
rivet next to a hinge bracket that just won't go. The head is too close to
the bracket to get _any_ rivet set in (including an offset). If I reverse the
rivet (head on the other side) the rivet falls over when I buck it [3 times
last night :(], and a squeezer won't fit. As it is, I've got to use a larger
rivet now, as the hole has gotten (very slightly) larger. The way I see it I
have several options:
1) See if the big Avery "Rivet/Dimpling Tool" arbor will fit (when it gets
here). And use a hammer, a la wing spars.
2) Use the spring back rivet set (again, when it gets here) and fix up some
kind of cupped bucking bar using a squeezer set.
3) Drill it much larger and use a bolt.
4) (The way I'm leaning right now) Pop rivet the sucker. What kind of pop
rivet is a structural substitute for AN rivets?
Any suggestions?
BTW - It's only _one_ rivet, I'm kind of pleased and surprised I didn't screw
up more. I did replace a couple of others that got dinged, but that was easy.
thanks,
Dave Hyde
davehyde(at)tecnet1.jcte.jcs.mil
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Earl Brabandt <earlb(at)SSD.intel.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rivet substitutes |
Dave,
> I've got a
> rivet next to a hinge bracket that just won't go. The head is too close to
> the bracket to get _any_ rivet set in (including an offset).
I take it this means that the rivet is too close to the bend in the bracket.
> If I reverse the
> rivet (head on the other side) the rivet falls over when I buck it [3 times
> last night :(], and a squeezer won't fit. As it is, I've got to use a larger
> rivet now, as the hole has gotten (very slightly) larger. The way I see it I
> have several options:
>
> 1) See if the big Avery "Rivet/Dimpling Tool" arbor will fit (when it gets
> here). And use a hammer, a la wing spars.
If it's that close, it will probably fold the rivet too.
>
> 2) Use the spring back rivet set (again, when it gets here) and fix up some
> kind of cupped bucking bar using a squeezer set.
On the other hand, if you've got room to get the back rivet set in there,
you've got room to buck it IMHO. Did you try putting duct tape on a
good, square, "blockish" bucking bar (to protect from scratches) and
holding in solidly against the vertical (vertical when in jig position)
part of the bracket as you buck? If the rivet hole is square, you should
be able to buck a rivet that's really close to the bend of the bracket--
at least with practice. I've found that you can keep the barrel shaped
shop head in good form right up to where it swells to the point it almost
touches the vertical piece next to it. However, this requires a bucking bar
with very sharp and square corners, and you must keep it solidly up against
the corner, otherwise it'll move away and mar the shop head.
>
> 3) Drill it much larger and use a bolt.
Naw--it's not to that yet!
>
> 4) (The way I'm leaning right now) Pop rivet the sucker. What kind of pop
> rivet is a structural substitute for AN rivets?
I think Van said the CS-64 and LP-4 rivets are comparable for strength on paper
and could be used more extensively if it weren't for the price (and aesthetics!)
I've got a couple in places that were too tight to buck.
Earl
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle (Matthew G. Dralle 510-422-4896) |
> I finally ordered my Rv-4 empennage kit, been building work benches and
> the tail-wing fixture, getting the garage in order, and in general been
> tooling up for the great adventure.
> I've been looking around for some of the power tools on Van's
> "recommended list" and need some advice or recommendations from you guys
> that might have some of these tools. The one tool that I need the most
> help on is the bandsaw. I've looked at the whole range of them from small
> table tops to the Delta 14" free standing models. Only the Delta 14"
> wood/metal saw goes the recommended slow speed of 300fpm (that Van's
> recommendation) but it cost $1200+. All the single speed wood models I've
> seen say they cut soft metals. It seems to me that the low speeds are only
> needed to cut hard metals. The questions I have are the following:
>
> - How important is the low speed cutting?
> - Do the wood models cover 90% of the cutting jobs? Do they work at all?
> - What about minimum size and hp? Delta has a nice little table top for
> $200.
> Would it be to small for the job?
>
> With regard to 1" belt sanders: most of these also have a sanding disk.
> Any tradeoffs between a 6" or 8" disk?
>
> With regard to drill presses: Van's say it should go down to 100 rpm. I
> can't find one that goes that slow. I found some Jet models that go 200
> rpm. I assume that that is slow enough to cut lightening holes. Right or
> wrong???
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> - Rich
>
>
Rich and anyone considering the purchase of a band-saw,
I have found that a good band-saw is a must-have tool in the construction of my
RV-4. Yes, you will need a slow speed, but you will need high speed too. I
would strongly recommend that you look into the 10" *variable speed*, table
top model sold by Sears. It has a "volume-control" on the front that allows
you to fully adjust the speed from full to stopped. THis feature has proved
invaluable. Don't settle for anything less. You won't be sorry.
Matt Dralle
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle (Matthew G. Dralle 510-422-4896) |
> Howdy,
>
> Bandsaws; Get a tabletop, with a throat of 12". Buy a metal cutting
> blade 14 or 18 teeth/inch and cut away. Non Ferrous metal (aluminum)
> does not require slow cutting speeds.
^^^
|
+------ This is not exactly true. At higher speeds, the
non ferrous material will start to "melt" and gum up the blade making it cut
very poorly. Cutting at a slower speed will decrease this effect and extend
the life time of the $8-9 blade bands.
Again, get a bande saw with a variable speed; you won't be sorry!!!
Matt Dralle
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle (Matthew G. Dralle 510-422-4896) |
> Hi Folks,
>
> I was speaking to a friend the other day who is building a -4, and he said
> that any good metal primer from a hardware store will work (ie. Canadian
> Tire here in Canada and maybe Ace or something in the States). Is this
> true ? Since Zinc Chromate is a Carcenogen (sp?) and both of my parents
> have died of Cancer, I'm staying away from it.
>
> Oh, by the way, I deleted the message about the elevator trim, but I just
> got my electric trim kit last Friday (w/o servo). You can hold off on your
> decision until you need to rivet the skin to the the elevator.
>
> Later
>
> Mark
> *********************************************************************
> Mark Richardson Software Kinetics Ltd
> Project Engineer VOX 902-468-3680
> richards(at)hawk.nstn.ns.ca FAX 902-468-3679
> RV-6 (temporarily incomplete)
> *********************************************************************
>
Mark,
There has been a lot of discussion on primers on this group. I have a file
of all the back postings. It's pretty large, but there is a lot of useful,
interesting information in it. I have to use the UNIX Compress, and then
UUencode on the file before I send it to you. If you have access to these
tools, would you like me to send the file to you?
Matt Dralle
PS - This goes for anyone that might be interested, actually.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Earl Brabandt <earlb(at)SSD.intel.com> |
> Rich and anyone considering the purchase of a band-saw,
>
> I have found that a good band-saw is a must-have tool in the construction of
my
> RV-4. Yes, you will need a slow speed, but you will need high speed too. I
> would strongly recommend that you look into the 10" *variable speed*, table
> top model sold by Sears. It has a "volume-control" on the front that allows
> you to fully adjust the speed from full to stopped. THis feature has proved
> invaluable. Don't settle for anything less. You won't be sorry.
>
> Matt Dralle
It's funny what tools and features different builder's consider to be
essential. I've had a completely different experience with my high
speed Sears "wood" bandsaw. I've had no problems cutting the angle
stock and small pieces of AL in the RV kit, and I haven't worn out a
single blade yet. Granted, I didn't start using it until I got to the
fuse, but blade wear doesn't seem to be a problem at all. I don't
remember the speed but it's pretty high like all of the small bandsaws.
It cuts through AL up to about 1/4" very quickly. I'm sure the slower
speeds would be nice, but it was on sale and much cheaper.
Earl Brabandt RV-6 N66VR, fuse all jigged--slap me some skin :-)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle (Matthew G. Dralle 510-422-4896) |
>
> > Rich and anyone considering the purchase of a band-saw,
> >
> > I have found that a good band-saw is a must-have tool in the construction of
my
> > RV-4. Yes, you will need a slow speed, but you will need high speed too.
I
> > would strongly recommend that you look into the 10" *variable speed*, table
> > top model sold by Sears. It has a "volume-control" on the front that allows
> > you to fully adjust the speed from full to stopped. THis feature has proved
> > invaluable. Don't settle for anything less. You won't be sorry.
> >
> > Matt Dralle
>
> It's funny what tools and features different builder's consider to be
> essential. I've had a completely different experience with my high
> speed Sears "wood" bandsaw. I've had no problems cutting the angle
> stock and small pieces of AL in the RV kit, and I haven't worn out a
> single blade yet. Granted, I didn't start using it until I got to the
> fuse, but blade wear doesn't seem to be a problem at all. I don't
> remember the speed but it's pretty high like all of the small bandsaws.
> It cuts through AL up to about 1/4" very quickly. I'm sure the slower
> speeds would be nice, but it was on sale and much cheaper.
>
> Earl Brabandt RV-6 N66VR, fuse all jigged--slap me some skin :-)
>
The slower speeds are much more managable when cutting soft metal. The blades
don't really "wear" out, just clog up with metal.
I got my saw for about $249. That's not unreasonable. I'm using a very fine
toothed saw blade. It is 32 teeth per inch as I recall. This make a very
clean cut and certainly attributes to clogging.
Matt Dralle
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dbloomberg(at)Solbourne.COM (Doug Bloomberg) |
rv-list(at)matronics.com, ward(at)s1.gov
________________________________________________________________________________
>Date: Thu, 11 Feb 93 10:17:35 PST
>From: dralle(at)matronics.com (Matthew G. Dralle 510-422-4896)
in response to my mail.
>To: dbloomberg(at)Solbourne.COM, rv-list(at)matronics.com, ward(at)s1.gov
>Subject: Re: Bandsaws???
>> Howdy,
>>
>> Bandsaws; Get a tabletop, with a throat of 12". Buy a metal cutting
>> blade 14 or 18 teeth/inch and cut away. Non Ferrous metal (aluminum)
>> does not require slow cutting speeds.
> ^^^
> |
> +------ This is not exactly true. At higher speeds, the
>non ferrous material will start to "melt" and gum up the blade making it cut
>very poorly. Cutting at a slower speed will decrease this effect and extend
>the life time of the $8-9 blade bands.
>
>Again, get a bande saw with a variable speed; you won't be sorry!!!
>
>Matt Dralle
>
>
Howdy again,
I have a bandsaw from Harbor Fght. in Camarillo,Ca. Cost $129.00
It a variable speed model, 62" blade I use a Black & Decker 18t
metal cutting blade. I run it at 2400'/min and haven't had any
problems that you have described. I also have cut quite a bit of 1/4"
AL with no problems.I run the saw at full speed, lower blade speed
just slowed down the feed rate.
I don't deny what Matt has to say, and I know it's true, but I
haven't experianced it with my set up. Also, I don't try to
overfeed the material, I figure the project will take years to
complete, whats a couple minutes here and there.
As to the Bandsaw from Harbor Fght. I can't say I would recomend
it. I didn't like the way the blade is supported. It tends to flex
right at the cutting point. (The carrier is not blade friendly)
Just my experiance, not to be confused with fact.
Blue Skies,
Doug Bloomberg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Earl Brabandt <earlb(at)SSD.intel.com> |
w(at)matronics.com
> The slower speeds are much more managable when cutting soft metal. The blades
> don't really "wear" out, just clog up with metal.
>
> I got my saw for about $249. That's not unreasonable. I'm using a very fine
> toothed saw blade. It is 32 teeth per inch as I recall. This make a very
> clean cut and certainly attributes to clogging.
>
> Matt Dralle
>
Well I agree, $249 sounds pretty good, but whether I'd prefer it
over my $129 bandsaw at almost twice the price, I'll probably never
know. I haven't tried any blades as fine as 32 teeth per inch so
maybe that's why I haven't had any clogging problems. I think
my blade is only around 18 teeth per inch.
Earl Brabandt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | perrin(at)crow.ewd.dreo.dnd.ca (John Perrin) |
Gidday from the Great White North
Please add me to the list - I subscribed a long time ago, but
seem to have been lost somewhere.
Address is perrin(at)crow.ewd.dreo.dnd.ca
RV-4 Builder #2473
Still working on the empennage, but now with a new double car garage
and workshop (& no money left to buy my fuselage kit!)
General Query: Anyone have (or have info on) some construction videos
that were available a while ago from a George Orindorf (sp?).
Thanks
John
--------------------------------------------------------------------
John Perrin perrin(at)crow.ewd.dreo.dnd.ca
Mgr, Land Electronic Warfare perrin(at)sofkin.ca
Software Kinetics Limited. "Softkill is for weenies."
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Morrissey J <John.Morrissey(at)its.csiro.au> |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | davehyde(at)tecnet1.jcte.jcs.mil |
The sun came out and the humidity dropped yesterday, so I
finally got to finish priming! The aft HS spar is now
complete and riveted (has been for a while), the fwd HS spar
and the aft VS spar are ready for riveting. Tonight I
should have all spars complete (I shouldn't say that).
Question: At what point are you committed to the longitudinal
trim method (manual/electric)? I'm definately going with
elec. trim,and it sounds like the elec. servo mounts in
the elevator (still waiting for my drawings), but I want
to be sure before I start skinning the HS. Suggestions?
thanks,
DH
Gidday Dave
The only thing you have to worry about is don't drill the
hole in the rear horizontal spar for the manual trim cable
to go through. Don't worry if you have already done this
as you can use the hole - with a grommet - to bring the wires
into the elevator. With the elevator DON'T install the
doubler plate for the manual trim as the one for the electric
trim is much bigger as it is used to support the servo. The servo
is installed inside the elevator.
Good luck
John Morrissey
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Morrissey J <John.Morrissey(at)its.csiro.au> |
| Subject: | Status report - Its Here!!! |
Hi to all in RV land,
I've just returned from a weeks trip to the other side
of Australia in Perth to find the shed filled with RV boxes.
I've hung the first main spare on the jig and I have started
cleaning up all the ribs for installation. The ribs came
with the lightning holes all nicely stamped out. So I don't
have to brave the hole cutter like last time. My mate has
a complete RV6 kit in his shed which has taken him a whole
week to inventory.
Ill keep you posted on progress
Cheers!!
John Morrissey
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Wentz <Don_Wentz(at)ccm.hf.intel.com> |
Matt, the UNIX system I had you change my address to is no longer and I
haven't been able to access it for over a week so I missed all that
mail. Try changing me back to don_wentz(at)ccm.hf.intel.com please.
Doug and I installed the engine mount last night, and we have the tail
surfaces working from the cockit controls. Fun!
General hint: I don't think the plans mention it, but be sure to do
your elevator control horn access panels while you have the fuselage
rear side panels removable. I did mine after the fuse was riveted
together and it was a pain! Also, they aren't as big as they could
have been, which would be nicer.
don wentz, RV-6 180hp
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | christopher.schulte(at)amail.amdahl.com |
| Subject: | Rear access panels |
>
> General hint: I don't think the plans mention it, but be sure to do
> your elevator control horn access panels while you have the fuselage
> rear side panels removable. I did mine after the fuse was riveted
> together and it was a pain! Also, they aren't as big as they could
> have been, which would be nicer.
>
> don wentz, RV-6 180hp
Here is another idea if your at the panel stage. You actualy only need to
cut a panel hole in one side of the fuselage. In the other side you can make
a 1/2" - 3/4" hole (just big enough to get a socket through) You can then just
stick a plastic plug in that side. I think it looks nicer. Your taste may
vary.
Chris.
RV-6 #21390
Sab Jose CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dbloomberg(at)Solbourne.COM (Doug Bloomberg) |
rv-list(at)matronics.com
| Subject: | Re: Rear access panels |
Howdy,
________________________________________________________________________________
>
> General hint: I don't think the plans mention it, but be sure to do
> your elevator control horn access panels while you have the fuselage
> rear side panels removable. I did mine after the fuse was riveted
> together and it was a pain! Also, they aren't as big as they could
> have been, which would be nicer.
>
> don wentz, RV-6 180hp
I find that the dimension given by Van for all the access panels leaves
very close edge distances. Builders here-abouts are changing the dim's
of the access hole, and the doubler plate. IE make the hole bigger and
extend the doubler into the vacant area. This way you can put the nut
plates further fron the edge, and move the holes in the access plate itself
a bit more towards the middle of the access plate (cover). The fit is Much better.
The covers lay flat, now.
Blue Skies,
Doug Bloomberg
RV-6 #21116
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle (Matthew G. Dralle 510-422-4896) |
| Subject: | Forward> Frank J's Project... |
Frank,
Please use the address "rv-list(at)matronics.com" to post messages to the
list. I forwarded this one for you 'cause I'm such a nice guy, but... :-)
------------------
Matt:
I Started an RV-6A late last summer. The empenage is finished and I am getting
ready to pound the last rivets in the second spar.
My background is electronics engineering and manufacturing management, and it
tends to show in my project. I quickly developed strong urges to make
construction fixtures and write procedures, hoping to be able to reduce the
mistakes and head-scratching sessions that account for about one-fourth of a
first-builder's time. I have finished procedures for the elevators and the main
spars if anybody is just getting to that point. They are not stand-alone; you
still need to read the construction manual and the plans. The format is
step-by-step with the main goal of grouping similar operations and performing
particular operations at the point where they are easiest to accomplish. I may
eventually write ones for the stabilizers and rudder but those are somewhat
easier to understand. After working some with Earl Brabandt's wings it is
obvious that a procedure is definitely called for there.
In general, the procedures took a lot of extra time but the fixtures cost almost
no time and saved a lot of aggravation. It is much easier to transfer plan
dimensions to a flat sheet of plywood than to a bunch of pieces of aluminum that
don't lay flat. They also help you detect errors in your thinking. My fixtures
are just finishing working on somebody else's airplane so if anybody in the
Portland, Oregon area wants them they are available. I would like to have
someone else try out my procedures also, preferably someone who is building now
but not their first RV. Any volunteers? Van has a great airplane and I would
like to see as many people as possible build them with as little wasted time and
error as possible.
Frank Justice
9725 SW 163rd Ave.
Beaverton, OR 97007
503-629-7808 (day)
503-642-5713 (evening)
frank(at)SSD.intel.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | moody(at)cyclone.mitre.org (John C. Moody) |
| Subject: | rear access panel |
>
> General hint: I don't think the plans mention it, but be sure to do
> your elevator control horn access panels while you have the fuselage
> rear side panels removable. I did mine after the fuse was riveted
> together and it was a pain! Also, they aren't as big as they could
> have been, which would be nicer.
>
> don wentz, RV-6 180hp
Now you tell me! I just finished riviting lower fuse. I was wondering if
one of the punches for the instrument panel cutout would work for
the hole. I have access to one of those combo punches.
The "small-hole-for-a-socket-on-the-opposite-side" approach sounds
like a real good idea.
________________________________________________________________________________
Hi Gang,
I riveted up the HS rear spar this last weekend using the Avery Arbor
with the back riveting set/bar that came with it and a 2x rivet gun. I
found it pretty hard to go wrong with this setup. As long as you hold
things straight and perpendicular, the rivets formed right up and it didn't
take any time at all. It almost seemed too easy after having read Dave
Hyde's notes a few weeks ago. I did squeeze a few -4's for practice and
decided I was not up to the entire spar. Boy Dave, you must be one strong
dude, or I'm more of a wimp than I thought. Anyway, I came to the
conclusion that the Avery Riveting Arbor is well worth the cost!!, and it
seems well suited for any riveting you can do on the bench top.
-Rich Ward RV-4
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | earlb(at)ichips.intel.com (Earl Brabandt) |
| Subject: | New e-mail address |
Hi gang,
I transferred to a new Intel site and my new address is
earlb(at)ichips.intel.com. (Matt, could you please change
my address on the list?) I should be getting forwarded
mail for a while, but I think I lost all mail between last
Wed and today, Tue., 3/2.
Just picked-up my powder coated steel fuse parts today so
I'll install my tail spring mount and be skinnin' tonight.
I used a rebuilt "straight body" 3X CP gun (Feb. special
from Industrial tool--$99.50) for the last half of my fuse
skeleton riveting. Boy, I wish I'd had it earlier for those
hard to reach 1/8" corner rivets. It minimizes the need to
use an offset set and just feels right!
Earl RV-6 N66VR
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | perrin(at)crow.ewd.dreo.dnd.ca (John Perrin) |
Greetings
Does anyone on the list have any nice color (i have some b&W) scanned RV-4
images? I'd like one to use as a background on this fancy computer I have
on my desk (that,by the way, cost more than my RV will!). Any format will
do.
John Perrin
RV-4 2473
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | christopher.schulte(at)amail.amdahl.com |
| Subject: | Ditto... But RV-6 |
>
> Greetings
>
> Does anyone on the list have any nice color (I have some b&W) scanned RV-4
> images? I'd like one to use as a background on this fancy computer I have
> on my desk (that,by the way, cost more than my RV will!). Any format will
> do.
>
> John Perrin
> RV-4 2473
Ditto that for me! A couple RV's in the background of my work station will
enhance my productivity immensely!
No nose draggers please!
Chris.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Wentz <Don_Wentz(at)ccm.hf.intel.com> |
amail.amdahl.com!christopher.schulte(at)juts.ccc.amdahl.com
| Subject: | Re: Ditto... But RV-6 |
I have an excellent shot of an Allan Tolle RV-6, but I have no way to
give it to you. I shared it with some of the local guys in this group,
maybe they have a way.
Drilled my engine mount/gear legs. Not too terrible of a job, but it
did take about 6 hours and several drill bits. Canopy frame assembled
on the fuse also.
don RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | earlb(at)ichips.intel.com (Earl Brabandt) |
| Subject: | Re: Ditto... But RV-6 |
amail.amdahl.com!christopher.schulte(at)juts.ccc.amdahl.com
>
> I have an excellent shot of an Allan Tolle RV-6, but I have no way to
> give it to you. I shared it with some of the local guys in this group,
> maybe they have a way.
If I can get Don's pic onto this UNIX system, I'll post it and the
RV-4 shot to one of the newsgroups--alt.pictures.binaries or
whatever it is. I'll let the RV list know when this happens.
Later,
Earl
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | earlb(at)ichips.intel.com (Earl Brabandt) |
| Subject: | RV-4 bitmap posted |
OK folks. I posted the RV-4 shot in 6 uuencoded posts. It's
in the newsgroup alt.binaries.pictures. If some of you don't
get the newsfeed, ask someone that does to send it to you. I've
never done this before and it's pretty labor intensive without
scripts so if any of you have a script to do these posts, I'll mail you
the much bigger RV-6 uuencoded files. Otherwise, it'll probably
be a few days. (The mailer probably needs a chance to cool-off anyway).
Earl RV-6 N66VR (in progress)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | davehyde(at)tecnet1.jcte.jcs.mil |
Quick and dirty:
Is there any way to get advisory circulars (AC-20-27D in particular)
over the net?
Dave Hyde
davehyde(at)tecnet1.jcte.jcs.mil
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | christopher.schulte(at)amail.amdahl.com |
I've been monitoring the picture boards the past week and have not seen hide
nor hair of any RV's?? Did they get lost?? Or maybe not posted in CA?
Chris.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | earlb(at)ichips.intel.com (Earl Brabandt) |
| Subject: | Re: Where is it.... |
> I've been monitoring the picture boards the past week and have not seen hide
> nor hair of any RV's?? Did they get lost?? Or maybe not posted in CA?
Hmmm, I don't know. It should have been a global post to
alt.binaries.pictures. I posted it as RV-4 homebuilt airplane
(6 parts) and it made it to this site. I guess not everyone
gets the newsfeed so maybe I should just mail the uuencoded files
to the list. They're about 900K (RV-6) and 350K (RV-4) total so
I'll probably have to break them up again.
Is that OK Matt? Any other objections/encouragements?
Earl
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | lackerma(at)rad.rpslmc.edu (lauren ackerman) |
| Subject: | Re: Where is it.... |
I got the RV-4 out of alt.,binaries.pictures. Thanks,
Waiting for the RV6. However, I am building the RV6A.
Thanks again in advance.
laurens
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle (Matthew G. Dralle 510-422-4896) |
| Subject: | Re: Where is it.... |
>
> > I've been monitoring the picture boards the past week and have not seen hide
> > nor hair of any RV's?? Did they get lost?? Or maybe not posted in CA?
>
> Hmmm, I don't know. It should have been a global post to
> alt.binaries.pictures. I posted it as RV-4 homebuilt airplane
> (6 parts) and it made it to this site. I guess not everyone
> gets the newsfeed so maybe I should just mail the uuencoded files
> to the list. They're about 900K (RV-6) and 350K (RV-4) total so
> I'll probably have to break them up again.
>
> Is that OK Matt? Any other objections/encouragements?
>
> Earl
>
I saw them on alt.binaries.pics. here at LLNL. I decided that it was
too much work to put them all back together, though.
Earl, those file sizes arn't all that bad. I would recommend that you use
UNIX compress on the images first, then UNIX uuencode, then send the
whole thing in two mails (rv4 then rv6) to the rv-list. There is plunty
of disk space.
Thanks,
Matt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle (Matthew G. Dralle 510-422-4896) |
| Subject: | Re: Where is it.... |
> > I saw them on alt.binaries.pics. here at LLNL. I decided that it was
> > too much work to put them all back together, though.
>
> If you thinks that's bad, try cutting them up!
> >
> > Earl, those file sizes arn't all that bad. I would recommend that you use
> > UNIX compress on the images first, then UNIX uuencode, then send the
> > whole thing in two mails (rv4 then rv6) to the rv-list. There is plunty
> > of disk space.
>
> Done!
[binary deleted]
Got it Earl! For those of you that havn't picked up the file, I have put it on
the anonymous FTP server directory on matronics.com. Look in ./bitmaps
for the actual file, and also the compressed version.
Earl, do you have an RV-4 as well? I'd like that one also. You could just
put it on the FTP server, then everyone could pick it up. Wow! UNIX is great!
Thanks!
Matt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle (Matthew G. Dralle 510-422-4896) |
| Subject: | Earl's BMPs and More! |
Hi all!
Well, Earl sent me the two rv images. I've tested both out and they look
sharp! I have a grayscale rv4 image that looks pretty sharp as well. I have
put all of these images in the anonymous FTP director, ./bitmaps on
matronics.com (128.115.54.5) most in regular and compressed mode. If you
have others, please feel free to place some files of your own there; I'm sure
we'd all love to take a peek.
Matt Dralle
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle (Matthew G. Dralle 510-422-4896) |
| Subject: | Re: Help ... Unsupported image |
> >
> > [binary deleted]
> >
> > Got it Earl! For those of you that havn't picked up the file, I have put it
> > the anonymous FTP server directory on matronics.com. Look in ./bitmaps
> > for the actual file, and also the compressed version.
> >
> > Earl, do you have an RV-4 as well? I'd like that one also. You could just
> > put it on the FTP server, then everyone could pick it up. Wow! UNIX is gre
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > Matt
> >
> Matt:
> I FTP'd over to you and picked up the file... But I can't display
> the BMP file type. Maybe there is somekind of header on the file or something
> that is cause XV to not be able to recognize it (at least for me) Can you
> maybe change the file to a GIF or JPEG format??
>
>
> Chris.
>
Well, I have a converter for just about every format except for bmp
(Microsoft Windows format). Sorry... Maybe Earl has them in a different
format?? Perhaps tiff? I could convert tiff to just about anything
(except bmp of course!).
Matt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | perrin(at)crow.ewd.dreo.dnd.ca (John Perrin) |
Gidday
Gee, I seem to have started something here. All I did was ask
if anyone had any images ... looks like we may start a RV image
library here (now, if we could just get the RVator distributed
electronically....)
I did take the liberty of converting the RV6 and RV4 bmp images to gif
format (thats what I use to display them on my sparc10 anyway). They
are in the bitmaps directory along with the originals, and are quite a
bit smaller than the bmp format. I'd be happy to convert any others
that show up.
Happy image viewing
John
RV-4 2473
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Morrissey J <John.Morrissey(at)its.csiro.au> |
Gidday
>Gee, I seem to have started something here. All I did was ask
>if anyone had any images ... looks like we may start a RV image
>library here (now, if we could just get the RVator distributed
>electronically....)
"Gidday" John
Its good to see that we are finally getting you guys to Aussie!!
Well you have started somthing, I have just sent two .BMP files over
to the ./bitmap dir on Roxanne. They are two views of my first RV
project.
Just a quick project update on the RV4:
I have mounted the spars in the jig and I have done all the lightning
holes for the wings. The center bulkhead is also finished.
Anyhow See ya later
John Morrissey
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark Richardson" <richards@hawk> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-3 accidents, IAC restrictions |
Hi Folks,
I found this in the rec.aviation.homebuilt news group this morning
>--- Forwarded message follows ---
>From: spenny(at)sw.stratus.com (Steve Pennypacker)
>Subject: Re: RV-3 accidents, IAC restrictions
>Date: 15 Mar 1993 20:24:37 GMT
>(followups redirected to r.a.homebuilt)
>
>In article <1993Mar15.181333.3077(at)sqi.com>, steven(at)sw-steven.sqi (Steven Jensen)
writes:
>>
>> The International Aerobatics Club (IAC) recently decided to prohibit pilots
>> from using the Van's model RV-3 (a single-seat homebuilt) in IAC sponsored
>> competition. Does anyone have information as to why this was done? I know that
>> there was a fatal RV-3 accident that took place last fall, but I am unaware
of
>> any RV-3 failures that have ever occurred during aerobatic competition. I am
a
>> RV-3 owner/builder/pilot, and I'd like to find out what is going on.
>
>I received the following information from an RV-3 builder at an EAA meeting
>on Friday night. So if it's wrong, blame her!
>
>Apparently the original RV-3 had a design deficiency. It seems that the
>fittings which attach the rear spar to the fuselage would pull out under
>high g loads. The result, predictably, was disasterous. The problem was
>corrected in the RV-3A, although the modification is probably retrofittable
>to the -3 (with enough work, you can retrofit *anything*).
>
>Is the RV-3A prohibited from competition also? What other features
>distinguish the "A" model from the original RV-3?
>--
> Steve Pennypacker PP-ASEL
>
> spenny(at)wiley.ts.stratus.com Stephen_Pennypacker(at)vos.stratus.com
What do you think ? (I have another message to follow about Phlogiston)
Mark
***********************************************************************
* Mark Richardson Internet: richards(at)hawk.nstn.ns.ca *
* Project Engineer *
* Atlantic Phone: 902-468-3680 *
* Software Kinetics Ltd. Fax : 902-468-3679 *
* 900 Windmill Rd. Suite 107, Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, Canada, B3B 1P7*
***********************************************************************
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark Richardson" <richards@hawk> |
| Subject: | Re: Anybody with RV pre-built wing experience? |
Hello Again,
Here is another interesting message that I found in rec.aviation.homebuilt:
>--- Forwarded message follows ---
>From: dougb(at)solbourne.com (Doug Bloomberg)
>Subject: Re: Anybody with RV pre-built wing experience?
>Date: 15 Mar 1993 13:22:03 -0700
>A friend had his wings built by Phlogiston. Cost was as you mentioned
>~$8600.00... It quit a while, Phlogiston has problems keeping qualified
>people. They stay for a few months and move on to Boeing.
>
>If he would do it again, NO is the answer, quality was ok but not
>really great, and it took Much longer than promised.
>
>$.02 from Doug Bloomberg
Has anyone else had the same problem? What about just pre-built spars ?
Mark
***********************************************************************
* Mark Richardson Internet: richards(at)hawk.nstn.ns.ca *
* Project Engineer *
* Atlantic Phone: 902-468-3680 *
* Software Kinetics Ltd. Fax : 902-468-3679 *
* 900 Windmill Rd. Suite 107, Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, Canada, B3B 1P7*
***********************************************************************
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Bibb <rbibb(at)cisco.com> |
Hello to all fellow RV enthusiasts!
I am building an RV-4 and have teh fusellage on the gear, wings ready for
final riveting, and hope to fly in '94.
I am in need of an engine (dynafocal mount), instruments, and encouragement.
The project is located at the Manassas, VA airport and if you are in the area
call and come take a look. I had to move it to the airport sooner than planned
as I am in the process of getting a divorce (no, I can't blame the plane for
that development although spousal support was lukewarm at best).
I will be going to OShkosh and hope to make Sun'N Fun this year as well.
Those of you on the east coast should try to make the Frederick, MD RV
Forum in APril as well.
I hold a PP SEL rating and learned to fly in a Champ some years ago
so the tandem seating, tail dragging 4 appeals to my sense of nostalgia
as well.
I live in Reston, VA but work for Cisco Systems which is based in
Menlo Park, CA so I get to the west coast about 10 times a year so
I would love to meet some of you left coast RV builders sometime.
Richard Bibb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ray Belbin <ccrdb(at)jcu.edu.au> |
Fantastic! Thanks to those people who put together the RV GIFs. I ftp-ed
them over from roxanne yesterday. The sunrise picture of the Aussie RV6
drew a big crowd to the color workstation. Plenty of oohs and aahs. I've
still to get the big_rv4 gif yet,
happy rivetting!
Ray Belbin RV6A (empenage - working on last
elevator and trim tab)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rbibb(at)cisco.com (Richard Bibb) |
Does anyone have any experience with the salvage companies that advertise
in TAP? I need an engine and I thought perhaps one out of a hurricane
Andrew wreck might be a good form of re-cycling. If you were being liberated
from a spam-can wouldn't you be happy too?!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Richard E. Bibb Phone: 703-715-4031
Cisco Systems, Incorporated FAX: 703-715-4004
1875 Campus Commons Drive, #305
Reston, Virginia 22091
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | christopher.schulte(at)amail.amdahl.com |
| Subject: | Watch out for Andrew Engines.... |
> Does anyone have any experience with the salvage companies that advertise
> in TAP? I need an engine and I thought perhaps one out of a hurricane
> Andrew wreck might be a good form of re-cycling. If you were being liberate
> from a spam-can wouldn't you be happy too?!
>
Watchout if you plan on picking up a Hurricane Andrew engine. Engines from
this source have a tendency to be worthless! Why?? Unfortunatly Airplanes do
come second to most people (houses and loved ones are first). So alot of
damaged planes ended up sitting on the ramp for days or weeks. Hurricanes
have a tandency to bring lots of SALT water with them and some nasty things
can be born out of that.
Chris.
P.S. You could always get a good one - But watch where you leap.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Harriger <jimharr(at)microsoft.com> |
| Subject: | Phlogiston spars and wings |
i tried to send this directly to mark, but couldn't, so here it is :-).
From: Jim Harriger <jimharr(at)microsoft.com>
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 93 08:55:06 PST
Subject: Re: Anybody with RV pre-built wing experience?
back when i was partners in building an rv-6, we had our spars built by
phlogiston.
we were very pleased with the end results, but we did have a spot of trouble:
when we first went up to pick them up, there were some rivets in the
left one that were
below par, even for a couple of newbies like us! we told them to fix
those rivets and we'd be back. when we came back two weeks later, they
looked great! overall we were pleased, but i imagine that if we'd not
had the ability to drive there, and had had them shipped, we'd have
been REAL PEEVED the first time.
jim harriger
ex-partner, rv-6 #20252
----------
From: "Mark Richardson" <netmail!richards(at)hawk.llnl.gov>
Subject: Re: Anybody with RV pre-built wing experience?
Date: Tuesday, March 16, 1993 8:21AM
Hello Again,
Here is another interesting message that I found in rec.aviation.homebuilt:
>--- Forwarded message follows ---
>From: dougb(at)solbourne.com (Doug Bloomberg)
>Subject: Re: Anybody with RV pre-built wing experience?
>Date: 15 Mar 1993 13:22:03 -0700
>A friend had his wings built by Phlogiston. Cost was as you mentioned
>~$8600.00... It quit a while, Phlogiston has problems keeping qualified
>people. They stay for a few months and move on to Boeing.
>
>If he would do it again, NO is the answer, quality was ok but not
>really great, and it took Much longer than promised.
>
>$.02 from Doug Bloomberg
Has anyone else had the same problem? What about just pre-built spars ?
Mark
***********************************************************************
* Mark Richardson Internet: richards(at)hawk.nstn.ns.ca *
* Project Engineer *
* Atlantic Phone: 902-468-3680 *
* Software Kinetics Ltd. Fax : 902-468-3679 *
* 900 Windmill Rd. Suite 107, Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, Canada, B3B 1P7*
***********************************************************************
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Wentz <Don_Wentz(at)ccm.hf.intel.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Phlogiston spars and wings |
To add to this discussion, Doug Stenger used to work for Phlogiston and is
now freelancing. We recently had a builder's group mtg there and
witnessed an absolutely incredible fuselage he was finishing up. He
joggled every skin joint, for a smooooooth finish, and the slider
canopy fit perfectly.
If anyone is interested in some 'help' with their project, let me know
and I'll have Doug contact you.
don wentz rv-6 20369
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | perrin(at)crow.ewd.dreo.dnd.ca (John Perrin) |
| Subject: | Instrument Mounting in RVs |
Gidday
The snow is melting up here and I've got a bad case of spring fever!
So, rather than working on my empennage, I'm dreaming about mounting
my instruments and would like to get some input from the group.
I plan to have an AH, DG and T&B, all with those marvelous little gyros
inside (I plan to do the night flying thing). Reading (uncle Tony's books)
has indicated that I should shock mount these animals
to prevent premature bearing wear, but I have seen alot of pictures (RVator etc)
of panels with gyro intruments mounted directly on the instrument panel.
Judging by the vibration I'm used to in a spam can, fixed mounting
must be awfully hard on the instrument.
I have also seen a picture of one of those plastic airplanes with
gyros that seem to have integral shock mounts (Glassair ad I think).
Haven't seen any of these for sale anywhere though.
So, whats the collective group wisdom? Can I get away without the
hassle, or is a shock mount arrangement advised/required?
John Perrin
RV-4 2473
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | christopher.schulte(at)amail.amdahl.com |
| Subject: | RE: Instrument Mounting in RVs |
The advise I give is it depends on your wallet, how much time you want to
spend under the dash, and how much you care about the acurace of you gyros.
First of the reason you see direct mounted gauges is: A). Most poeple don't
know any better. B). It's a lot easier then building a sub-panel. If your
an educated chap and don't mind swapping out you DG whenever it fails to stay
on track then forget the sub-panel. After all it's a bit litter and looks
nicer when everything is very flush.
But if you have plans on IFR'ing your bird you best shock mount it. There are
more advantages.... The bigest one being a shock mounted sub-panel if designed
with a little thought can make it quite easy to get behind the dash, with 4 to
8 ruber bushings all your instruments can be sliped out on the sub-assemble.
That's my 2 Bucks (inflation don't you know)
Chris.
RV-6 #21390
San Jose CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dougm(at)pogo.wv.tek.com |
I too was one of the *qualified* individuals to flow thru the Phlogiston doors.
I supervised the wing shop '89/90...and most of my time was spent reworking wing
s that were built too fast...or not well thought through. You are absolutely ri
ght regarding time promised...Wayne is an optimist in the true sense of the word
This wings I reworked had sat for *years*. The flap braces were installed on the
opposite wing and backwards. The aileron and flap installation was usually
incorrect...etc,etc. *Wayne* has high quality standards... there are two sides
to Phlogiston...the spar manufacturing and wing manufacturing...
and truth fully the wing shop used the spars that were not astheticlly beautiful
they were structurally correct however. Over all the wings that shipped were
clean and straight. I have a feeling that the imbalance of technical training
in the company (Wings vs. Spars) is the reason for the high turn over.
In the wing shop we totaled 15 years of airframe experience...the turn over during
that time was very low...I had the same guys for the duration...
The spar shop had *new* people monthly... and of course there was the need to
*train* these people to do basic things like deburring and such. There are a
couple of people the spar shop has held on to like Bill...he is sharp.
Phlogiston serves the RV builder well by providing a difficult to build part
and they do do a quailty job...I was there when Jim and Ron came to pick up
their spar... I had nothing to do with the building of it, and even then
I was embarrased by the workmanship. (Sorry Jim)
I doubt any of us would anodize every thing like that...
I have enjoyed helping my buddy Don Wentz with his project over the last couple
of years. It is nice to keep your hands into something like this...thanks Don.
This will be quite an aircraft!
I don't come to many of the meetings due to my schedule but I really enjoy the
e-mail connection during the day...keep up the workmanship guys!
Douglas Miner
Tektronix
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Wentz <Don_Wentz(at)ccm.hf.intel.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Phlogiston... |
I noticed in the RVAtor last nite that the 'other' Doug that used to
work at Phlo who is freelancing now is listed in the back. Give him a
call if you want a quote on getting some parts done. His last name is
Stenger and he does good work.
dw
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bataller(at)iatc.ed.ray.com (Gary Bataller) |
| Subject: | RV6(A) Fuselage Jig |
With the warm weather just around the corner, looks like I'll be priming the rest
of the fuselage parts and doing some riveting over the next few weeks, resulting
in a RV6A that can finally be released from its jig. So, the bottom line is that
I will be selling my RV6(A) jig late-May/early-June timeframe. Its bene carefully
built out of dried lumber and is mostly screwed together. I just called Van's
to
have it put into the next newsletter, but figured there might be someone in this
group that might be interested. The details are:
RV6A Fuselage Jig (wood/screw construction)
Availability: ~June 1, 1993
Price: $125
Terms: you pick it up
Where: central MA (Westboro)
Contact: Gary @ 508-366-1050 (nights)
508-490-2081 (days)
Having done the tail and wings (well, I haven't yet riveted the wing main skins
on, due
to the cold temps preventing priming), I can definitely say that the fuselage is
the
most fun! I did find a tool that has become a real timesaver and I believe results
in better construction; the electronic level. I bought it new for about $55,
and I've
used it throughout the fuselage construction. It gives a dynamic horizontal and
vertical
reading in degrees and is repeatable and easy to calibrate, if needed. I've crosschecked
it against two other levels I have (bubble-levels), and it seems very accurrate.
The only
problem is that now I strive for accurracy within 0.1 degrees. I highly recommend
getting
one (I have the 24" model, which is more than adequate).
I'm looking foward to the RV Forum in Frederick, MD in 2 1/2 weeks; its been great
the
past 2 years I was there.
Gary Bataller
RV6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dbloomberg(at)Solbourne.COM (Doug Bloomberg) |
| Subject: | RV Forum Frederick. |
Howdy,
How many of you fine RVators are going to the RV forum this year?
It will be my first time.
How about who-ever makes it we meet at one place at a given time.
I will be with Larry Vetterman, trying to sell RV exhausts. We will have
pipes for RV-4 RV-6 and RV-6A on display. We can all meet at his display
table. Any other ideas?
Doug Bloomberg
RV-6 21116
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rbibb(at)cisco.com (Richard Bibb) |
| Subject: | Re: Phlogiston... |
For what it's worth...
I bought Phlogiston spars for my -4 and they looked great however one was
damaged in shipment from Van's. Seemed one of the wired that Van's used to
secure the spar to the packing crate broke and the sharp end of the wire
actually punctured a hole in the main spar flange about six inches from the
tip.
By expanding the hole I was able to clean it up and prime it to prevent
corrosion - it basically provided a small (maybe 3/16" x 2.5" long slot)
lightening hole near the end of the spar.
Other than that the workmanship on the spars was fine. These were
purchased in the end of '91.
Look forward to seeing many of you in Frederick!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Richard E. Bibb Phone: 703-715-4031
Cisco Systems, Incorporated FAX: 703-715-4004
1875 Campus Commons Drive, #305
Reston, Virginia 22091
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | davehyde(at)tecnet1.jcte.jcs.mil |
The Frederick, MD, chapter of the EAA will be holding their
annual RV forum on 16 and 17 April this year at the Frederick
Community College hangar at FDK. I'd be interested in getting
a list of netters that are planning to be there. If you're
planning on attending or just want info, send me E-mail. I'll
summarize a few days prior to the forum, and maybe we can have
a hangar flying session one evening while we're there.
There I was, flat on my desk, uh, back.
Dave Hyde
davehyde(at)tecnet1.jcte.jcs.mil
I'm not affiliated with the forum or Van's in any way other
than being a builder and past attendee.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | davehyde(at)tecnet1.jcte.jcs.mil |
Forgot to include this yesterday. When you tell me you'll be
there, also include when you expect to get to Frederick, when
you're leaving, where you're staying, and whether or not you'll
be at the dinner. That way I can set up a time and place to
meet, if possible.
Dave Hyde
davehyde(at)tecnet1.jcte.jcs.mil
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle (Matthew G. Dralle 510-422-4896) |
>
> Does anyone have any experience with the salvage companies that advertise
> in TAP? I need an engine and I thought perhaps one out of a hurricane
> Andrew wreck might be a good form of re-cycling. If you were being liberated
> from a spam-can wouldn't you be happy too?!
>
> Richard E. Bibb
>
I assume you are referring to the Trade-a-Plane class. rag. Yup, that's where
I got my 0360. It came out of a '76 Cherokee 180 that had been flipped over in
the wind. It had about 1000 hours (3000 hours total) on a major and no damage.
Its a nice unit, although I havn't run it yet. When I got it, it was pretty
grungy; right out of the plane. I particially disassembled it and cleaned it
up with a scrub brush and lots of lacquer thinner. After that I repainted it
bright red with some high quality, high temp paint. Since all of the
accessories had close to 3000 hours on them, I bought new mags, plugs, harness,
starter, alt, fuel pump, and an Ellison TBFI. It looks really sharp now. I
can hardly wait to hang it on the front of the -4. The whole thing, including
the new accessories cost me about $12,000. Not too bad, I suppose.
Just the engine as purchased from the wrecker was about $6500.
When I had the cylinders off, there appeared to a great deal of time left and
only moderate wear.
Matt Dralle
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | davehyde(at)tecnet1.jcte.jcs.mil |
Did anyone else out here use RTV on the trailing edge of the
stiffeners for the elevator/rudder? It's time for me to do the
same, I'd like to hear about what type you used, etc. I've heard
that some can be pretty corrosive, some set hard, etc... Any
suggestions?
Dave Hyde
davehyde(at)tecnet1.jcte.jcs.mil
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Morrissey J <John.Morrissey(at)its.csiro.au> |
Gidday Dave
Re the following:
>Subject: RTV
>
>
> Did anyone else out here use RTV on the trailing edge of the
>stiffeners for the elevator/rudder? It's time for me to do the
>same, I'd like to hear about what type you used, etc. I've heard
>that some can be pretty corrosive, some set hard, etc... Any
>suggestions?
>
In Australia we call it Silicon Sealent but basically I think its the
same thing. You have to get the stuff that has "Neutral Cure" written
on the outside. The other variety smells strongly of acetic acid when
you take the lid off which is exactly what they use to cure the product.
Acetic acid is a very bitter smell and don't take too much of a sniff
if you want don't want your sinus cleaned right out.
John Morrissey
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | davehyde(at)tecnet1.jcte.jcs.mil |
There's a week to go before the RV forum at Frederick, MD, and
I'm still compiling a list of netters who'll be there. If you're
building an airplane (not necessarily an RV or even all-metal) there's
lots of excellent info to be found here. The forum will be held on
16 and 17 April this year at the Frederick Community College hangar
at FDK. If I get enough response I'd like to get together one evening
for some hangar flying. If you're planning on attending, drop me a
note with you're E-mail address, when you're arriving and leaving
Frederick, and whether or not you'll be at the forum dinner on Fri.
Attendees so far:
Dave Hyde davehyde(at)tecnet1.jcte.jcs.mil
Tom Goeddel t.goeddel(at)att.com
Mike yukish MAY(at)ecl.psu.edu
Richard Bibb rbibb(at)cisco.com
Gary Bataller bataller(at)iatc.ed.ray.com
Doug Bloomberg dbloomberg(at)Solbourne.COM
I'm not affiliated with the forum or Van's in any way other
than being a builder and past attendee.
Dave Hyde
davehyde(at)tecnet1.jcte.jcs.mil
So I said to the Navy, "These are my opinions,
go and get your own."
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Wentz <Don_Wentz(at)ccm.hf.intel.com> |
Be sure to look for the duckworks landing light display and get your
info sheet at the Forum. The red RV-6T has one installed, if it's
there you can check it out.
don wentz RV-6 20369
Got my Laser cut instrument panel yesterday. Looks great! You local
guys will see it tonight at the builder's group mtg.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | davehyde(at)tecnet1.jcte.jcs.mil |
Well, here's the list of netters who said they'll be at the
Frederick RV-Forum this year:
Who In Out Fri Dinner
Gary Bataller Thur ? Probably
Dave Hyde Fri AM Sat PM No
Gregory W Ratcliff Sat ? ?
Mike Pilla Thur PM Sat PM Yes
Tom Goeddel Thur Sat Yes
Mike yukish ? ? ?
Richard Bibb Fri Fri ?
Doug Bloomberg Thur Sun Yes
Rather than pick an evening when some (including me) or all
will miss it, I suggest we scan the donut table between 8:00
and 8:30 AM on Fri and Sat. Doug, if you're tied up at a display
we'll be filtering by anyway. Everyone should have name tags,
so we'll be easy to spot. There's also plenty of time to wander
around between (and during) speakers.
See you there!
Dave Hyde
davehyde(at)tecnet1.jcte.jcs.mil
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | davehyde(at)tecnet1.jcte.jcs.mil |
Boy, it's really been quiet around here. Where/how
is everyone? The RV-foum in Frederick, MD was
pretty good, and a few of us got together and traded
stories. Even saw Don Wentz (In name only) at the
Duckworks display. I also missed a couple of you who
were there. Sorry about that.
We're just about ready to close up all three control
surfaces on the tail. Now I gotta wait 'til August
for my wings. :(
And the real reason I'm posting:
Dina (my wife) is going to Pt. Mugu, CA on business
next week. We thought, with Camarillo airport nearby,
that she could try and find builders/flyers in the area.
Anyone got any suggestions? She's also calling Van's,
but your response time may be quicker. Thanks.
DH
davehyde(at)tecnet1.jcte.jcs.mil
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rbibb(at)cisco.com (Richard Bibb) |
Yeah it has been quiet.
Just a progress note on my RV4.
About ready to close my right elevator as well. This is my second set as
the first did not meet my revised standards of workmanship after building
my fuselage and wings.
Need an engine badly and need to get real serious in locating one.
Plan right now is to finish and close up wings (they are ready to rivet),
finish ailerons/flaps, install control linkages, and begin engine
installation over the summer.
Hope to be ready to install systems ths fall and paint over winter (OK
proabably next spring) so I can fly next before next summer (Oshkosh).
How realistic? Depends on finances and time constraints placed by job and
obligations of fatherhood.
Oh yeah - visited Air and Space Museum Garber facility weekend of RV Forum
with Dave Bloomberg and Larry Vetterman (of High Country Exhaust fame). It
was very interesting (they are busy restoring Enola Gay to have ready for
50 anniversary of Hiroshoma bombing in '95 - this has been 10 year
effort!). Hope to see an RV in the museum someday along with Pitts Special
now displayed.
Those of you in DC area - I would like to have a cookout at my hanger in
Manassas, VA sometime this summer - How about it?
Also would like to see a RV builder's group formed in Mid-Atlantic area.
Great flying weather in DC last couple of days (a rarity).
Keep in touch!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Richard E. Bibb Phone: 703-715-4031
Cisco Systems, Incorporated FAX: 703-715-4004
1875 Campus Commons Drive, #305
Reston, Virginia 22091
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dbloomberg(at)Solbourne.COM (Doug Bloomberg) |
| Subject: | Life for a RV-ator at LLNL? |
Howdy,
I may have a oppertunity to work for a supercomputer firm on a new machine
at LLNL. I know from past trips there seems to be a nice airport at Livermore.
So... Some questions. Is it a friendly airport? What are hanger costs.
What are housing costs. Most important what is the RV building environment
there abouts. Finally, is there a EAA chapter there?
Thanks in advance,
Doug Bloomberg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | perrin(at)crow.ewd.dreo.dnd.ca (John Perrin) |
Does anyone, either through experience or from word of mouth,
know the service ceiling for an average RV-4? (160hp fixed pitch
at gross, assuming O2 available)
Just wondering....
John Perrin
RV-4 2473
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | christopher.schulte(at)amail.amdahl.com |
> Does anyone, either through experience or from word of mouth,
> know the service ceiling for an average RV-4? (160hp fixed pitch
> at gross, assuming O2 available)
>
> Just wondering....
>
> John Perrin
> RV-4 2473
I believe it is around 20K at gross with 24k solo.
Chris.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | earlb(at)ichips.intel.com (Earl Brabandt) |
> > Does anyone, either through experience or from word of mouth,
> > know the service ceiling for an average RV-4? (160hp fixed pitch
> > at gross, assuming O2 available)
> >
> > Just wondering....
> >
> > John Perrin
> > RV-4 2473
>
> I believe it is around 20K at gross with 24k solo.
Those numbers sound close to Van's so they're probably about
right. But keep in mind that prop selection is everything when
in comes to ceiling and I'd tend to call those numbers
"best case" rather than "average." To achieve them, with
a fixed pitch prop, you have to spin it pretty fast at
cruise which primarily costs you fuel and maybe additional
cabin noise.
Because the RVs were originally sport oriented, fixed pitch
wood props are probably still the most popular selection.
However, I've been advocating a line of thinking to some of
our Portland Area Builder's group members that casts a new
angle on the argument that fixed pitch wood props are cheaper,
lighter, and perform nearly as well as constant speed props.
I'm not saying that everyone should get a C/S prop. Just
consider whether this argument is valid for your particular
type of aircraft operation
First off, I don't have my O-360 handbook with me so this
is off the top of my head. The Lycoming published fuel burn
numbers show there's a significant fuel penalty for cruising
in the 2600 to 2800 rpm range. As I recall, a 75% cruise at
2600 rpm costs you about one gal / hour compared to a 75%
cruise at 2400 rpm. To go from 2600 rpm to 2700 rpm (redline)
costs you nearly another gallon!
Basically, according to the factory handbook, the engine
specific fuel consumption really starts to increase rapidly
at high rpm. I don't know if it's primarily due to
decreasing volumetric efficiency or frictional losses but
it's significant.
This is my biggest complaint against fixed pitch props. In
my RV-6, I figure a maximum long range flight might be about
4 hours in duration. According to the Lycoming data, I
could complete most 4-hour flights at the same speed with
either a fixed pitch prop or a constant speed prop, but I'd
typically burn about 4 gallons less with the constant speed
prop if I used it to reduce engine speed while maintaining
the same power setting and speed. Yes, I know there may be
prop efficiency differences but everything I've seen indicates
they are small compared to the engine efficiency differences
October 25, 1991 - May 07, 1993
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