RV-Archive.digest.vol-an
July 06, 1995 - July 25, 1995
I like the recommendation given me: If you want to FLY your RV, put a Lycoming
on the front. If you want to EXPERIMENT with it, put a car engine on the front.
It may be that someday there will be 'low-cost, reliable, PROVEN' auto
conversions on lots of experimentals, but right now the 'bolt-on' Lycoming still
has it's merits.
I believe there is at least 1 6-cylinder Subaru on an RV-6A, we are still
waiting to see how it is working-out. If you could see one close-up to see how
much modification is required, it may help you decide one way or another.
It sounds like you are making very good progress on your project, keep at it.
The Duck, N790DW, 180HP RV-6, #20369
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: New Subsciber |
Welcome to the list.
John wrote:
snip
>I am building an RV 6A, I started Feb 94, and I have finished the wings,
>empannage, and I am just covering the fuselage. This weekend I will put on the
>landing gear.
snip
>For example, for
>the first month I didn't know that the rivet sqeezer could be adjusted, which
>made sqeezing rivets interesting. I worked out an ingenious way of using
>spacers.
>With the Challenger, I drilled 100 holes in 1/4" tubing, in one hour -- with
>the drill running backwards. This should be in the Guiness Book of Records.
snip
Obviously, I'm spending too much time adjusting my squeezer. Maybe I'll try
the other direction on the drill too (which way is "clockwise" again? I have
a digital watch). You must be doing somthing right. I started my RV6
January '93 and hope to finish the wings by October. Sounds like good
progress to me.
>I also need an engine, preferably one which does not stop suddenly. I have been
>looking at 320s and 360s, they seem very expensive. I like the idea of a
Subaru,
>does anyone have one installed in an RV ?
>John.
There are a couple, at least in-the-works. There's at least one Buick and
one Mazda rotary engine flying. I hope we see more soon. I'm somewhat less
than impressed with my overall Lycoming experience in the planes that I rent
(but none have stopped- YET!). There's nothing like taxing out to the
runway and having the controller ask you if you knew that the plane came in
earlier with the engine running rough. I plan to use either a Mazda rotary,
or a Lycoming with modern (obviously non-aviation) electronic fuel injection
and ignition. Who knows, by the time my plane is finished, fosil fuel may
be outlawed. :-)
Good luck.
Russell Duffy
RV6 sn 22407
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Eastburn <EASJI(at)gateway.ci.hillsboro.or.us> |
enter surscription to easji(at)ci.hillsboro.or.us
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JamesCone(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: empennage controls, ideas for discussion, |
> 1. Spring biased rudder trim on an RV6, has anyone done this???
> If I recall correctly the cherokee 140's I learnt to fly in
> had them, I was considering something similar, maybe even getting
> an assembly from a wrecked 140 & adapting it.
>
>July issue of Van's Air Force, Tri-State Wing had a long article called A
Tale of a Tail. It described just such a bias spring trim system. It works
on the saw horses but I won't be able to say for sure until it flies. I can
bias the rudder about 10 degrees and hand pressure on the rudder indicates
that there will definately be some trim pressure. I'll let you guys know how
it does in flight. I'm just not hanging the engine.
Jim Cone, Editor, Van's Air Force, Tri-State Wing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JamesCone(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Homebuilders list on net |
I found the homebuilders page on the net by surfing around looking for things
about aviation. I just stumbled accross it and passed the URL on to the
subscribers of my newsletter.
Jim Cone, Editor, Van's Air Force, Tri-State Wing
(Lt. Col. USAFR Retired, AOPA, EAA, ALPA)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kingm(at)coopext.cahe.wsu.edu (Monte King) |
| Subject: | Re: Van's Builder's Course |
>I received the Van's info packet in the mail yesterday, and my level of
>enthusiasm for getting the project underway has really shot up! One thing that
>was mentioned was a "one week builders course" that is given about once a
>quarter...has anybody on this list attended this, and if so, did you feel
it was
>worthwhile experience, particularly in advance of getting underway. Any
>thoughts or comments would be much appreciated...regards...Terry in Calgary
>
>
>My partner and I attended Van's class in '93 before we started building our
-6A. We were both total novices at any metal working techniques. In
retrospect, the class was time well spent. In my opinion, the most
significant event at the course was meeting Art Chard who, along with Ken
Scott, taught the class. Art has been with Van for years and is truly a
character. You would really have to meet him to appreciate what I mean. At
that time Art was building his 17th RV. This one was his own RV-6 with a
Continental engine and a modified slider canopy. Seeing Art's plane in
progress gave me my first reality check as to the scale of the project. To
say the least, I was somewhat intimidated!
We also toured the 'factory' and put a lot of faces to names; Van, Andy,
Bill Benedict, etc.
A ride in a -4, -6 or -6A was also included.
The class teaches basic riveting information, techniques and tricks, and you
end up building a small section of a flap and assembling wing ribs to the
main and rear spars. If all this is still a foreign language to you as it
was to me then, taking the course allows you to immediately start the tail
kit with much better skills and most importantly much more confidence. I'm
sure we made many fewer 'beginner's mistakes' as a result. For those not
totally committed to building, the class might also help you decide if this
is something you really want to do. We live close enough we could drive to
the Portland area and were able to stay with friends there, so it wasn't an
expensive proposition. The class probably doesn't appeal to everyone, but
for us it was very worthwhile.
Monte King
Oak Harbor, Wa
RV-6A, almost ready to pull the fuselage off the jig
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Wentz <Don_Wentz(at)ccm2.hf.intel.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Progress Report |
Doug, look for me 1) Standing next to my RV-6 N790DW
2) Wearing a Portland RVators Fly-in Tshirt
3) In my Hot Pink Hat with N number and RV-6 on it.
I hope to fly-in this evening and stay to Sunday, the flight
may be tough with the weather we've had, and we'll be coming
from Portland. The BBQ is a MUST.
See you there.
The Duck, N790DW, 180HP RV-6, #20369
We had Monday, the 3rd off and I made good use of the time
and manged to finish both main wing spars! I'm pretty psyched
about moving along with the wings but as usual have a lot of
other projects around the house that I want to work on.
I used a press made with a 2-ton hydraulic jack to set the
3/16th rivets and it worked just fine. I think mine was the
third set of spars done with this press and I know more will
be done using it.
This week is the Arlington fly-in and I plan to be there
on Saturday, the 8th. Too bad we don't have some way of
identifying people on the list who are attending. Hopefully,
we can meet up at the picnic sponsored by the Puget Sound
RVators during the air show. Maybe we need some kind of
patch for the RV-listers!?
Hope to see some of you on Saturday.
Doug Medema RV-6A a-building! dougm@physio-control.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Standley <Gary_Standley(at)ccm.ssd.intel.com> |
| Subject: | Re[2]: Van's Builder's Course |
Text item:
I have never taken the class myself, but having had involvement, as
Doug, through Phlogiston (the spar shop) I think this will be money well
spent. I have thought about it even though I have built an RV4 airframe
and made my share of errors. Doug is right too, Art Chard doesn't get
the credit he deserves, at least not publicly. Art is a kinda laid back
guy so he probably doesn't want the lime light anyway. I also have the
good fortune to attend breakfast every Saturday with Art and a group of
other RV people so am able to keep up on what is happening.
And now, an added bonus, Mike Seager is right here and available in a
factory airplane to offer dual instruction.
And besides, Oregon is a great place to visit. We have oceans,
mountains, rain, sun, all within an hour or two of Van's (for us
landlubbers). If you're flying, everything is even closer (in time).
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re: Van's Builder's Course
Date: 7/6/95 5:21 PM
RE>Van's Builder's Course 7/6/95
2:03 PM
I was an insructor 'of sorts' in this course in the early 90's. The
tour came through my wing shop at Phlogiston... the students had
many questions... I was able to point to a in-process wing for answers...
if you can afford the time... come to Oregon~ It never hurts to hear
the man himself tell you how it "should" look... and as an added
bonus you will get to meet a very under-rated not mentioned enough
for his contributions...'Art Chard'
Art is a master builder. His workmanship is what text book pictures
are made of. He can do things you just don't imagine...and his template
collection will make you drewl~ He is a good teacher and was my quiet
mentor during my wing-building days.
Sign up~
Doug Miner
--------------------------------------
Date: 7/6/95 1:23 PM
From: Terence C. Gannon
I received the Van's info packet in the mail yesterday, and my level of
enthusiasm for getting the project underway has really shot up! One thing that
was mentioned was a "one week builders course" that is given about once a
quarter...has anybody on this list attended this, and if so, did you
feel it was
worthwhile experience, particularly in advance of getting underway. Any
thoughts or comments would be much appreciated...regards...Terry in Calgary
------------------ RFC822 Header Follows ------------------
id sma030955; Thu Jul 6 13:23:03 1995
ESMTP (8.6.12/SMI-4.1)
Date: 06 Jul 95 08:07:02 EDT
From: "Terence C. Gannon" <compuserve.com!74267.3003(at)matronics.COM>
Subject: Van's Builder's Course
Text item: External Message Header
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Subject: Re: Van's Builder's Course
From: "Doug Miner" <qm.WV.TEK.COM!dougm(at)matronics.com>
Date: 6 Jul 1995 14:11:28 -0800
id sma022845; Thu Jul 6 14:12:59 1995
-0700
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Wittman <73362.2004(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Need Larry Gross phone # |
Does anyone have a phone number for Larry Gross?? He is an RV-6 builder in Ill
(flying).
Thanks, Jim RV-6 tail in process
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Terence C. Gannon" <74267.3003(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Example of RV's Integrity |
I believe in passing along GOOD news...I sent for my RV info pack with $30US in
cash...not only did I get the info pack in mere days, but I got $9 cash
back...turns out that I had sent them too much. This little thing says a LOT
for the integrity of Van's....just thought that I should pass that along!
Regards...Terry in Calgary
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com (Ross Mickey ) |
| Subject: | Project Update, Archive Browsing Question |
Well, I stashed my wings under in the basement and will pick up the
fuselage kit on Weds. I plan to put steps on both sides and electic
flaps on the 6-A. I have the jig that Hank Anderson used lined up next
week also. I don't know if I will be able to afford a constant speed
prop but am wondering if I should install the recess in the firewall
just in case.
I downloaded the archived RV-List and am trying to read it in Windows
Word Perfect. This is very,very slow. Any help on how I could get to
stuff in that document faster????
Ross Mickey
RV-6A Eugene, OR
________________________________________________________________________________
o.k.. i know that some of you have at least once drilled a hole where you
really did'nt want it or maybe an extra hole because you were doing so good
that you forgot to stop..well, thats just what i did. now, what is the best
patching or filling media i can use to rid myself of this vile little void in
my once unblemished virginal sheet of gleaming aircraft skin. i know that i
can put a "dummy" rivet in the hole but the hole is in a spot where it can be
seen. thanks for any help..
jimnjac hillsboro, or. RV-4
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ammeterj(at)ammeterj.seanet.com (John Ammeter) |
You can always do what I did. Just tell everyone that you made a
modification but it is still under development and you can't talk about it.
Most of us are too polite to comment on any extra rivets, NOT!! Actually,
if you are careful to set the rivet (plugging the hole) slightly "deep" and
then use some bondo it is unlikely that anyone will ever even see the extra
rivet.
Is your computer clock right?? I notice that it says you sent this missive
at 9:46 PM on 7/7. Since it is now 8:25 PM on 7/7 (and we're in the same
time zone) how is it possible? Have we discovered a crack in the time
barrier???
>o.k.. i know that some of you have at least once drilled a hole where you
>really did'nt want it or maybe an extra hole because you were doing so good
>that you forgot to stop..well, thats just what i did. now, what is the best
>patching or filling media i can use to rid myself of this vile little void in
>my once unblemished virginal sheet of gleaming aircraft skin. i know that i
>can put a "dummy" rivet in the hole but the hole is in a spot where it can be
>seen. thanks for any help..
>jimnjac hillsboro, or. RV-4
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JamesCone(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Need Larry Gross phone # |
________________________________________________________________________________
Larry Gross
10669 West 1000 South Road
Bonfield, IL 60913
(815) 426-6222
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jmpcrftr(at)teleport.com (Michael McGee) |
>From: aol.com!JIMNJAC(at)matronics.com
>Subject: @%**&#%**
>
>o.k.. i know that some of you have at least once drilled a hole where you
>really did'nt want it or maybe ...
Well, you take one of those round things that come out of the ribs
(lightening hole cutouts) and glue it to the inside of where the
drill-with-a-mind-of-its-own sacrificed that virginal skin. When it's well
attached, get out the bondo.
A little dab 'll do ya. Then after painting you won't even recognize it.
Unless of course it's in an area that will flex alot.
Seriously, if it's not in a structurally critical area I would expect that
this would suffice. However if there are any who think this is
inappropriate please say so.
Mike McGee
Mike McGee & Jackie Stiles jmpcrftr(at)teleport.com
RV-6 ..sn 23530.. (in the "plans" still) .. shop almost ready ...
SHOP: ++++++---- (It's full of junk from movin' in ..mnph..)
TAIL: ----------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Doug Weiler <Doug.Weiler(at)swamp.mn.org> |
Listers:
I was just having a conversation this afternoon with one of our local builders.
He is just finishing a most beautiful RV-6 with a 180hp and C/S prop. I was
telling him about the RV List and although he is not involved in computers at
all, he would like to ask the "experts" out there if anyone has had any
experience in engine cooling on a -6 like his. He has a standard cowling
installation and asks whether cooling the 180 hp with the C/S prop has been a
problem. He questions whether constructing a "lip" on the fuselage at the
cowling air exit would be of any benefit (to allow a more smooth exit of
cooling air). Obviously all installations and aircraft are different, but
does anyone have an opinion?
Many thanks,
Doug
... Doug Weiler, Pres, MN Wing, Hudson, WI, doug.weiler(at)swamp.mn.org
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | s.hendry(at)ix.netcom.com (steve hendry ) |
Please unsuscribe me and e_mail my conformation.
________________________________________________________________________________
...refer to them as "Speed Holes" and offer to help them install some in
their airplane, for a price!
>o.k.. i know that some of you have at least once drilled a hole where you
>really did'nt want it or maybe an extra hole because you were doing so good
>that you forgot to stop..well, thats just what i did. now, what is the best
>patching or filling media i can use to rid myself of this vile little void in
>my once unblemished virginal sheet of gleaming aircraft skin. i know that i
>can put a "dummy" rivet in the hole but the hole is in a spot where it can be
>seen. thanks for any help..
>jimnjac hillsboro, or. RV-4
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BPattonsoa(at)aol.com |
Hello the list
Bruce Patton
San Luis Obispo, Calif
Project: RV-6A
Wing and tail complete, fueselage in jig.
Prior poject: HP-18 high performance sailplane, mostly metal
Built two versions of it. After flying the first few hours with the stock
side-stick, I got a new fueselage pod and over the next few years designed
and built a good center stick, one piece canopy, and about 100 other
improvements. I have around 1000 hours in the glider.
Van apparently has a HP-18, and if he isn't flying RVs, he is soaring.
Hello ACE
I will have a fues. jig available in a few months. It is made out of 2X6 and
1X2 square steel tube. My fues is its second, and I want it to be around for
a lot more. This thing is outstanding. One cross member is off by .040, the
rest are perfect. The only problem is weight and size.
Bruce Patton
________________________________________________________________________________
Well, it's time to work at seriously selling the ARSA Fighter. I need to move
on to an RV-6, or maybe (sorry) a Glasair III, if I can steal one.
Anyhow, the ARSA fighter is/has:
* RV-4 s/n 686.
*160 HP Lycoming O320-B3B, a 91 octane engine, < 1100 SMOH.
*Airframe is about 340 TT. I'm redoing the gear and wheel fairings, but it
got book speeds with the old fairings.
*Prop is a Pacesetter 68 * 69, but it's getting depitched a tad.
*Panel was published in October, 1992 Sport Aviation. It's really nice, with
KX-155/glideslope, GPS, gyros, all that. I can remove some radios to reduce
the price, if required.
*Paint is Imron, white with blue leading edges, and a red stripe between the
blue and the white.
*The engine mount brackets have all been replaced with the heavier new
pieces, and the plane has gotten the TLC it needs.
*Asking price is $37K. Interesting trades considered.
*$500 finders fee.
I'm looking for an RV-6 or -6A, preferably a project well along with a
sliding canopy. Requirements: full corrosion proofing, workmanship very, very
good to excellent.
Ed Wischmeyer
408 732-9832
San Jose, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Doug Weiler <Doug.Weiler(at)swamp.mn.org> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6 Cooling |
Darrell:
Re: Friend's "about-to-fly-RV-6"
ao> What type of cooler does this plane have? Where did he get his baffle
ao> kit? These are just 2 of the problems that come to mind from past
ao> experience. correct air flow is most likely the problem. Let me hear
ao> back. Darrell @Via ifmail 1:2245/1@fidonet, Sat Jul 8 1995 at 20:45
ao> (2.8c)
I wish I had more details on my buddy's airplane. I assume it has Van's
baffling kit. Obviously since the aircraft has not flown, he does not yet know
whether he will even have a cooling problem. I guess he was just anticipating
this possibility and wondered if anyone had some definite info on 180hp RV-6s
in a general sense. I'll certainly know more after the first flight (which is
still a month or two away).
Thanks,
Doug
... Doug Weiler, Pres, MN Wing, Hudson, WI, doug.weiler(at)swamp.mn.org
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Standley <Gary_Standley(at)ccm.ssd.intel.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Project Update, Archive Browsing Question |
Text item:
I you think you will go to a constant speed sometime NOW is the time to
build in the firewall recess.
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Project Update, Archive Browsing Question
Date: 7/7/95 4:23 PM
Well, I stashed my wings under in the basement and will pick up the
fuselage kit on Weds. I plan to put steps on both sides and electic
flaps on the 6-A. I have the jig that Hank Anderson used lined up next
week also. I don't know if I will be able to afford a constant speed
prop but am wondering if I should install the recess in the firewall
just in case.
I downloaded the archived RV-List and am trying to read it in Windows
Word Perfect. This is very,very slow. Any help on how I could get to
stuff in that document faster????
Ross Mickey
RV-6A Eugene, OR
Text item: External Message Header
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Subject: Project Update, Archive Browsing Question
From: ix.netcom.com!rmickey(at)matronics.com (Ross Mickey )
Date: Fri, 7 Jul 1995 16:23:18 -0700
.1)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Standley <Gary_Standley(at)ccm.ssd.intel.com> |
Text item:
If it really bothers you that much Van's will sell you a new skin.
Bondo is less expensive. I hesitate to say "cheaper" 'cause nothing is
cheap in aviation.
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: @%**&#%**
Date: 7/7/95 9:46 PM
o.k.. i know that some of you have at least once drilled a hole where you
really did'nt want it or maybe an extra hole because you were doing so good
that you forgot to stop..well, thats just what i did. now, what is the best
patching or filling media i can use to rid myself of this vile little void in
my once unblemished virginal sheet of gleaming aircraft skin. i know that i
can put a "dummy" rivet in the hole but the hole is in a spot where it can be
seen. thanks for any help..
jimnjac hillsboro, or. RV-4
Text item: External Message Header
The following mail header is for administrative use
and may be ignored unless there are problems.
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Subject: @%**&#%**
Date: Fri, 7 Jul 1995 21:46:50 -0400
-4.1)
From: aol.com!JIMNJAC(at)matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rbibb(at)fore.com (Richard Bibb) |
| Subject: | Exhaust System Question |
Finished bracing the exhaust system yesterday (Vetterman 4 piper) and wired
all the instruments sensor to panel as well as all lighting switches.
Flipped on the master switch and nothing smoked!. Now to wire avionics
(Transponder and comm), finish connecting engine hoses (missing a couple
fittings that should be in UPS tommorow), time the mags, and fire it up...
One question though:
On the Vetterman 4 pipe setup: I am confused as to the extensions. His
instructions say to cut them off flush with the bottom of the cowling but
the geometry makes that mean I would have to cut the pipe at a very severe
angle as it is bending down at that point. This explanation is not very
clear but if anyone has experience with the Vetterman exhaust on an RV-4
and Lycoming O-320-E2D maybe you can shed some light on this.
Thanks.
Richard Bibb
Hoping to fly by the fall...
Richard E. Bibb TEL: (301) 564-4404
DOD Program Manager PAGE:(800) 719-1246
FORE Systems FAX: (301) 564-4408
6500 Rock Spring Drive, Suite 444 rbibb(at)fore.com
Bethesda, MD 20817
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dick Steffens" <res6246(at)des.dukepower.com> |
I heard a rumor that Van is going to introduce an RV-8 at Oskosh that is
suppose to be his answer to the Harmon Rocket. Anything to this?
Dick
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Ruble <cruble(at)cisco.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6 Cooling |
>
> I was just having a conversation this afternoon with one of our local builders.
> He is just finishing a most beautiful RV-6 with a 180hp and C/S prop. I was
> telling him about the RV List and although he is not involved in computers at
> all, he would like to ask the "experts" out there if anyone has had any
> experience in engine cooling on a -6 like his.
> Many thanks,
>
> Doug
>
A few weeks ago I talked to a builder that has installed the 180/CS
configuration. He has reduced the air inlet on the nose by about an inch
and added a small (about 6" X 9") cowl flap at the rear of the cowling.
He indicated that he had cooling problems without the cowl flap. The
reduction in inlet size did net him a few MPH. BTW...this guy won the
Sun & Fun RV race. His Lyc. is stock except for a LightSpeed ignition
system in place of the right Mag.
Chris...Working on the deck (in the back yard).
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | twg(at)blink.ho.att.com (Tom Goeddel(x5278)) |
| Subject: | Oops... Now what? |
Hi all,
This past weekend I was riveting on the aileron hinge brackets. After
finishing up the outboard bracket, I discovered that my bucker had
slipped a little and nicked with the bucking bar the corners of the shop
heads of the center two of the four -4 rivets attaching the tip rib to
the rear spar. My first reaction was "no big deal, we'll just replace those"
but then I realized that those are flush rivets whose heads are beneath the
just riveted on aileron hinge bracket. The more I think about it, the more I
think that I should just leave well enough alone. To replace those two rivets
will mean drilling out all 10 rivets on the hinge bracket - I'm afraid I will
do more harm doing that by enlarging holes, etc. than by leaving a couple
of slightly weak rivets in a lot less critical spot. Any thoughts?
Thanks
Tom Goeddel
RV-6a
t.goeddel(at)att.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Wentz <Don_Wentz(at)ccm2.hf.intel.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Project Update, Archive Browsing Question |
Ross, you may as well put the recess in now, it would be VERY difficult
later.
You will be interested to know that Hank Anderson's hangar mate Wally
Anderson won Best Custom Metal - Kit Built at Arlington 95, for his RV-6.
The same award Hank won last year. Not bad, 2 in the same hangar.
FYI, Hank's is featured on the May page of Van's '95 calendar, Wally's is
October.
dw
>Well, I stashed my wings under in the basement and will pick up the
>fuselage kit on Weds. I plan to put steps on both sides and electic
>flaps on the 6-A. I have the jig that Hank Anderson used lined up next
>week also. I don't know if I will be able to afford a constant speed
>prop but am wondering if I should install the recess in the firewall
>just in case.
Ross Mickey
RV-6A Eugene, OR
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Wentz <Don_Wentz(at)ccm2.hf.intel.com> |
Hi Mike & Jackie,
Actually, John's method is good, and the
thought of that 'glued-on' piece
coming-off in the future and rattling
around inside someplace is, how you say,
'scary'?
Enjoy Arlington? I did!
The Duck, N790DW, 180HP RV-6, #20369
>From: aol.com!JIMNJAC(at)matronics.com
>Subject: @%**&#%**
>
>o.k.. i know that some of you have at least once drilled a hole where you
>really did'nt want it or maybe ...
Well, you take one of those round things that come out of the ribs (lightening
hole cutouts) and glue it to the inside of where the
drill-with-a-mind-of-its-own sacrificed that virginal skin. When it's well
attached, get out the bondo.
A little dab 'll do ya. Then after painting you won't even recognize it.
Unless of course it's in an area that will flex alot.
Seriously, if it's not in a structurally critical area I would expect that
this would suffice. However if there are any who think this is
inappropriate please say so.
Mike McGee
Mike McGee & Jackie Stiles jmpcrftr(at)teleport.com
RV-6 ..sn 23530.. (in the "plans" still) .. shop almost ready ...
SHOP: ++++++---- (It's full of junk from movin' in ..mnph..)
TAIL: ----------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Wentz <Don_Wentz(at)ccm2.hf.intel.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6 Cooling |
If he is talking about 'fairing' the exit a little where the firewall/mount
clutter it up above the hole, there has been some theorizing that that will
help. I plan to try that also, 'some day'.
Most important is to seal the baffling properly, including behind the flywheel.
I recently plugged a 1/4" gap across the back of the engine, about 7" long on
each side, and got a noticable drop in temps.
In general, the 180 doesn't seem real diffucult to cool.
The Duck, N790DW, 180HP RV-6, #20369
Listers:
I was just having a conversation this afternoon with one of our local builders.
He is just finishing a most beautiful RV-6 with a 180hp and C/S prop. I was
telling him about the RV List and although he is not involved in computers at
all, he would like to ask the "experts" out there if anyone has had any
experience in engine cooling on a -6 like his. He has a standard cowling
installation and asks whether cooling the 180 hp with the C/S prop has been a
problem. He questions whether constructing a "lip" on the fuselage at the
cowling air exit would be of any benefit (to allow a more smooth exit of
cooling air). Obviously all installations and aircraft are different, but does
anyone have an opinion?
Many thanks,
Doug
... Doug Weiler, Pres, MN Wing, Hudson, WI, doug.weiler(at)swamp.mn.org
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6junkie(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Questions re: painting |
I bought the Mar-Hyde spray cans from Avery Supply {(817) 439-8400}. Made
life very simple...no mixing, no waste. They have it in quart cans for large
jobs. Works real fine.
Gary Corde
RV-6 N211GC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6junkie(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Oops... Now what? |
________________________________________________________________________________
place an add a few AN bolts...best of both worlds. Only the completly anal
will ever notice.
Gary Corde
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
<9507100738.AA07829(at)des.dukepower.com>
| From: | Mike Fredette <mfredett(at)ichips.intel.com> |
I heard a rumor that Van is going to introduce an RV-8 at Oskosh that is
suppose to be his answer to the Harmon Rocket. Anything to this?
Dick
RV-6
Tis true. They've been fiddling with it for some time now. I got to
see the plane over at their "SKUNK WORKS" a couple of weeks ago. I wouldn't
go so far as to say that the RV-8 is a Harmon Rocket replacement, it's a bit
tamer than John Harmon's. It is however, basically a strengthened, lengthened,
and widened RV-4, but with "only" a 200 horse mill out front instead of the 250
-260 hp monstrocity on the Rocket. Bill Benedict won't say much about it, and
Van is playing it close to the vest as usual, saying nothing at all. Guess we'll
get the full scoop at the BIG ONE in a few weeks.
Mike Fredette
RV4
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave Hyde <nauga(at)windvane.umd.edu> |
| Subject: | Don Wentz, chatter |
Sorry, Don, didn't have your address. You'll be getting your landing light
photos returned in the mail soon. I found them (after a year), and figured I
should return them, but forgot to put in a note. Sorry I took so long. How
rude. :)
And I ordered a Duckworks light from Van's.
Dave Hyde
nauga(at)windvane.umd.edu
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | smbrown(at)cisco.com (Stephen M. Brown) |
| Subject: | Example of RV's Integrity |
I can do better than that: I just received my wing kit and got a free
Phlogiston spar! thought maybe they really liked me :-)
Turns out there was a shipping mistake with someone else having a very
similar name. I do plan to keep the spar, after proper monetary
remuneration, since it looks so nice and there all those BIG rivets.
>
>I believe in passing along GOOD news...I sent for my RV info pack with $30US in
>cash...not only did I get the info pack in mere days, but I got $9 cash
>back...turns out that I had sent them too much. This little thing says a LOT
>for the integrity of Van's....just thought that I should pass that along!
>Regards...Terry in Calgary
>
>
>
--
Steve Brown
System Engineer
Cisco Systems - Phoenix
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave Hyde <nauga(at)windvane.umd.edu> |
I'm in the process of building up the ailerons and flaps and came across a
plans revision I hadn't noticed (even when I was adding it to the plans)
regarding the skin stiffeners. The revision changed all the stiffeners from
0.016" to 0.025". My wing was shipped with 0.016. So...do I use what I got,
or do I get new angles? What's the reason for the change? Anyone?
Yes, this is a cheap substite for a phone call.
Dave Hyde
nauga(at)windvane.umd.edu
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: Oops... Now what? |
I'd probably leave it alone. I think you're right about drilling out
all those rivets possibly doing more harm than good, and anyhow it
doesn't sound that bad to me. How bad are the bucktails "nicked"?
They'd have to be pretty bad for me to want to drill the whole aileron
bracket off. As I remember, I had to use an angle drill and/or long
skinny to get a straight shot drilling some of those holes because the
bracket interfered with the drill chuck. If yours was the same way it
would make drilling out rivets even more iffy.
Randall Henderson
RV-6
> Hi all,
>
> This past weekend I was riveting on the aileron hinge brackets. After
> finishing up the outboard bracket, I discovered that my bucker had
> slipped a little and nicked with the bucking bar the corners of the shop
> heads of the center two of the four -4 rivets attaching the tip rib to
> the rear spar. My first reaction was "no big deal, we'll just replace those"
> but then I realized that those are flush rivets whose heads are beneath the
> just riveted on aileron hinge bracket. The more I think about it, the more I
> think that I should just leave well enough alone. To replace those two rivets
> will mean drilling out all 10 rivets on the hinge bracket - I'm afraid I will
> do more harm doing that by enlarging holes, etc. than by leaving a couple
> of slightly weak rivets in a lot less critical spot. Any thoughts?
>
> Thanks
>
> Tom Goeddel
> RV-6a
> t.goeddel(at)att.com
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dorothy.Brecheisen(at)uni.edu |
| Subject: | Subscription Request |
I would like to subscribe to the RV-List. My address is brecheisen(at)uni.edu
Thank you.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Curt Reimer <Curt_Reimer(at)NtwkServ.MTS.MB.CA> |
| Subject: | Re: Oops... Now what? |
On Mon, 10 Jul 1995, Tom Goeddel wrote:
> This past weekend I was riveting on the aileron hinge brackets. After
> finishing up the outboard bracket, I discovered that my bucker had
> slipped a little and nicked with the bucking bar the corners of the shop
> heads of the center two of the four -4 rivets attaching the tip rib to
> the rear spar. My first reaction was "no big deal, we'll just replace those"
Depending on how severe the nicks are, I wouldn't worry about it. It
probably has 99% of the strength of a perfect rivet, unless the nicks are
really deep or sharp. The mil spec on riveting that I have says that it
is perfectly ok to have "steps" on the shop head, i.e. like the marks
a bucking bar makes if it slips, so long as lowest point on the shop head
is greater than the minimum allowable shop head height.
Wow! You've made it all the way to your aileron brackets before running
into this kind of situation? I'm impressed. I was still working on my
empannage when I made my first boo-boo that couldn't be fixed. Up til
then, I would refabricate or reorder parts as necessary if I made a
mistake, just so I would have a perfect airplane. Of course, what
eventually happens is you make a mistake on an expensive assembly of
parts and realize you will just have to live with it, or never get an
airplane built.
If you are really concerned, add an extra rivet or two. If you call Van's
they will probably confirm that the assembly is designed considerably
overstrength, at least that is what they usually tell me when I phone them.
Speaking of mistakes, I just finished drilling all my mounting holes
for my flap brace, clecoed it on, mounted the flap and found it is 3/16"
out of alignment with the aileron. ARRRRGH! What a depressing end to an
otherwise productive weekend. WARNING: I used the Orndorf method of flap
mounting. DOUBLE CHECK with the airfoil templates before drilling. (I didn't)
This is a bit of a problem, since you can't temporarily mount the flap
while your flap brace is clamped on with vice grips.
My only practical option is to drill a new
set of mounting holes in the rear spar, which means my rear spar will
have about 20 extra 1/8" lightening holes. Oh well. I'm not about to
replace the rear spar, seeing how the wing is 90% done.
My worst nightmare is that I finish the plane, and then find damaged spar
flanges on one of my wings. Now THAT would be depressing. (would need to
build new wings and replace main bulkhead/wing mount in fuselage!)
Curt Reimer
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Bysinger <john.bysinger(at)mccaw.com> |
----------
From: Dick Steffens
Subject: RV-8
Date: Monday, July 10, 1995 7:43AM
I heard a rumor that Van is going to introduce an RV-8 at Oskosh that is
suppose to be his answer to the Harmon Rocket. Anything to this?
Dick
RV-6
__________
I was at the Arlington fly-in this past weekend, and heard talk of both an
RV-7 and an RV-8. My understanding was that the -8 is a redesigned version
of the -4. With a slightly wider body, larger wing tanks, and the baggage
compartment moved in front of the cockpit for a better CG. And the -7 was a
redesign for a larger HP engine. (I may have the -8 and -7 backwards.) I
guess that people had talked to Van at the fly-in and learned this, but I
did not talk to him personally.
BTW Van's did a spectacular air show in a -4 up at Arlington, those of us
at the Puget Sound RVators picnic had front row seats to his performance.
The picnic was great, there were three -6's, one -3 and around eight -4's
including the Blackjack Squadron of Arlington, they had their own
formation flying performance before the field was closed for the airshow.
Hope to see everyone there next year!
John Bysinger
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | leo(at)icn.su.OZ.AU (Leo Davies) |
I have been preparing before priming by degreasing, scuffing with fine
ScotchBrite and then rinsing with methylated spirits. I noticed a reference
to "Aluprep" in the list: is this just a solvent or some sort of passivating
agent? Does anyone have experience with this or other prep agents? Any
recommendations?
Cheers,
Leo Davies
Waiting for Godot (well fuse kit actually)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kingm(at)coopext.cahe.wsu.edu (Monte King) |
| Subject: | Re: Project Update, Archive Browsing Question |
>Well, I stashed my wings under in the basement and will pick up the
>fuselage kit on Weds. I plan to put steps on both sides and electic
>flaps on the 6-A. I have the jig that Hank Anderson used lined up next
>week also. I don't know if I will be able to afford a constant speed
>prop but am wondering if I should install the recess in the firewall
>just in case.
>
>
You'll need the firewall recess if your engine has a spin on oil filter
also. The filter extends about 1/2" beyond the firewall, so a recess is not
optional, although it wouldn't have to be the size of the filter/governor
recess that Van's shows in the plans.
Monte King
Oak Harbor, Wa
RV-6A, Working on fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
rv-list(at)matronics.com
| From: | ammeterj(at)ammeterj.seanet.com (John Ammeter) |
| Subject: | Re: Oops... Now what? |
Ok, I'll take a shot at giving advice. My gut feeling is that even if the
rivets were missing the skin would hold the rib in place. Of course, even
damaged rivets are better than no rivets. You said your helper "nicked" the
shop heads; from that I infer that the heads are substantially ok. As far
as I'm concerned I would fly in your airplane and I'm VERY conservative as
far as whose airplane I will trust my delicate body to.
>
>Hi all,
>
>This past weekend I was riveting on the aileron hinge brackets. After
>finishing up the outboard bracket, I discovered that my bucker had
>slipped a little and nicked with the bucking bar the corners of the shop
>heads of the center two of the four -4 rivets attaching the tip rib to
>the rear spar. My first reaction was "no big deal, we'll just replace those"
>but then I realized that those are flush rivets whose heads are beneath the
>just riveted on aileron hinge bracket. The more I think about it, the more I
>think that I should just leave well enough alone. To replace those two rivets
>will mean drilling out all 10 rivets on the hinge bracket - I'm afraid I will
>do more harm doing that by enlarging holes, etc. than by leaving a couple
>of slightly weak rivets in a lot less critical spot. Any thoughts?
>
>Thanks
>
>Tom Goeddel
>RV-6a
>t.goeddel(at)att.com
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ammeterj(at)ammeterj.seanet.com (John Ammeter) |
| Subject: | Glad to hear you made it home |
Glad to see you on the List, Don "the Duck" Wentz. I was concerned that you
would get caught in the weather Sunday leaving Arlington. Don't need
anymore accidents involving weather during the Airfair. How did Jerry
Springer make it back to OR?? Jim Morgan said he left a message on Jerry's
answer robot asking if he made it back ok. BTW, Jerry, I've asked our Puget
Sound RVator Editor to enter a years subscription to the Newsletter for you.
You should have told us that we goofed up. We all enjoyed your company at
the Arlington Airfair. As far as the Skappoose fly-in, we need to make sure
that the EAA 26 fly-in at Boeing field and your fly-in are NOT on the same
weekend. I WOULD like to attend your fly-in. The one year I made it was
GREAT!!!!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michelle J Tinckler <mjt(at)unixg.ubc.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Oops... Now what? |
No big deal. If you feel bad about it, just get a slim file called a
radius file and dress the marks out. Further, Van's design is such that
some rivets can even be left out and the a/c is still plenty strong. You
are correct in that drilling out to fix will probably compound any
"problem" that presntly exists...Austin at Vancouver, B.C.
On Mon, 10 Jul 1995, Tom Goeddel wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> This past weekend I was riveting on the aileron hinge brackets. After
> finishing up the outboard bracket, I discovered that my bucker had
> slipped a little and nicked with the bucking bar the corners of the shop
> heads of the center two of the four -4 rivets attaching the tip rib to
> the rear spar. My first reaction was "no big deal, we'll just replace those"
> but then I realized that those are flush rivets whose heads are beneath the
> just riveted on aileron hinge bracket. The more I think about it, the more I
> think that I should just leave well enough alone. To replace those two rivets
> will mean drilling out all 10 rivets on the hinge bracket - I'm afraid I will
> do more harm doing that by enlarging holes, etc. than by leaving a couple
> of slightly weak rivets in a lot less critical spot. Any thoughts?
>
> Thanks
>
> Tom Goeddel
> RV-6a
> t.goeddel(at)att.com
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert Busick <rbusick(at)nmsu.edu> |
| Subject: | EAA Arlington 95, Kitfox Crash |
Don
Were you at Arlington this weekend. I heard on
the news that on Sunday a Kitfox went in nose first and burned the
occupants beyond recognition. Do you or anyone else have any first hand
knowledge of the crash?
Bob Busick
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Van Grunsven Upside-Down (chatter) |
I just got back from Arlington where I finally had a chance to see Dick Van
Grunsven's airshow aerobatic performance. I was very impressed. It
definitely inspired me to step up the building pace on my RV-4. It also
solidified my decision to go with a constant speed prop. Does anyone know if
he has done any special modifications to the RV-4 demonstrator?
Also, there was a RV-4 there with retractable gear and a sliding canopy.
I'll pass on the disapearing gear, but I'm very interested in the sliding
canopy. Has anyone out there sampled any of the sliding RV-4 canopy plans
out there?
Thanks
Ted
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | twg(at)blink.ho.att.com (Tom Goeddel(x5278)) |
| Subject: | Re: Oops... Now what? |
> Wow! You've made it all the way to your aileron brackets before running
> into this kind of situation? I'm impressed. I was still working on my
Naw... I was just more on the fence about what to do about this one. I
make at least my fair share of mistakes...
> Speaking of mistakes, I just finished drilling all my mounting holes
> for my flap brace, clecoed it on, mounted the flap and found it is 3/16"
> out of alignment with the aileron. ARRRRGH! What a depressing end to an
> otherwise productive weekend. WARNING: I used the Orndorf method of flap
> mounting. DOUBLE CHECK with the airfoil templates before drilling. (I didn't)
> This is a bit of a problem, since you can't temporarily mount the flap
> while your flap brace is clamped on with vice grips.
I just wrestled with this same problem - how to hold the flap brace in the
proper position to drill it to the spar. I finally settled on a method that
worked well (for me, at least). I mounted the flap offset a few inches from
its normal position (just intentionally misalign the piano hinge halves),
still using the airfoil templates to hold it all in the correct position.
You now have a clear shot to drill the first few holes. I then
moved the flap down a little more, which cleared the way for the next few
holes, and so on. I got around half of it drilled that way and convinced
myself I couldn't mess up the positioning on the rest of it, took the whole
thing off, and finished up the drilling. It's a bit of a pain to keep
taking the flap on and off, but it took all of the uncertainty out of
the alignment process - worth the trouble in my book.
Tom Goeddel
RV-6a
t.goeddel(at)att.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Terence C. Gannon" <74267.3003(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Lycoming Engine Coding |
Regulars on the list over the last couple of weeks will have seen a stready
stream of basic questions from me regarding a prospective RV-6 project. Here's
the next one; can anyone provide a list of the "codes" that Lycoming uses for
its engines. I'm going through the various publications to get a feel for
engine prices, and they are almost exclusively referred to using the code.
Don't get me wrong...I now the "O" is opposed, the "320" is the displacement
(for example), but it's some of the more subtle variations I'd like to know
about. If there is a reference out there I should be using, please don't
hesitate to let me know! Great list, and thanx to all for your help!
Regards...Terry in Calgary
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JerryFlyRV(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Glad to hear you made it home(chatter) |
>How did Jerry
>Springer make it back to OR?? Jim Morgan said he left a message on Jerry's
>answer robot asking if he made it back ok. BTW, Jerry, I've asked our Puget
>Sound RVator Editor to enter a years subscription to the Newsletter for you.
>You should have told us that we goofed up. We all enjoyed your company at
>the Arlington Airfair.
Hi John
Made it home fine left Arlington at 8:30AM Sun morn. and made it home about
9:40PM Sun Night not bad 200kt miles in 13 hours in a RV :-). We had to stop
at Pierce County, they were great let us stay in the EAA meeting house all
day brought us a TV, almost all the comforts of home.
Thanks for the Newsletter info, and I want to thank you and Jim Morgan for
the hospitality and for helping to make Linda comfortable at the barbaque.
Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JERRYWALKER(at)delphi.com |
Does anyone know a good book on alodyning aluminum and how it can be
obtained. Currently milling the reinforcement bars on the main spar of my -6
kit.
'[1;35;40m-=> Delphi Internet Jet v2.009 - (C) PBE
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CAP10ZOOM(at)aol.com |
To All At Arlington...
Vicki and I wanted to say thanks for the immense hospitality we experienced
from the RV bunch at Arlington. We had a ball, saw some BEAUTIFUL airplanes,
and got very jealous of a number of you. We look forward to working with you
and being of service to you all in the future. Thanks for everything....
Jim and Vicki Campbell
US Aviator magazine
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JIM SCHMIDT <JIM.SCHMIDT(at)mail.mei.com> |
Alumiprep is a phosphoric acid wash that is
available at most automotive paint stores.
You dilute it any where from 4-7 to 1
with water. It is the active ingrediant in
Naval Jelly. Now that I use it I do not use
any kind of thinner or acetone and the
adhesiion of my Dupont Variprime is much
better. It also works well for cleaning the
air conditioner coils on my central air
unit.
Gallon is much less expensive than using
all that acetone. As you end up with 4 to 7
gallons to apply.
>>> Leo Davies 07/11/95
12:34pm >>>
I have been preparing before priming by
degreasing, scuffing with fine ScotchBrite
and then rinsing with methylated spirits. I
noticed a reference to "Aluprep" in the
list: is this just a solvent or some sort
of passivating agent? Does anyone have
experience with this or other prep agents?
Any recommendations?
Cheers,
Leo Davies
Waiting for Godot (well fuse kit actually)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "A. Reichert" <reichera(at)clark.net> |
| Subject: | Re: EAA Arlington 95, Kitfox Crash |
There are a number of posts on this in rec.aviation.homebuilt.
- Alan
On Mon, 10 Jul 1995, Robert Busick wrote:
> Don
> Were you at Arlington this weekend. I heard on
> the news that on Sunday a Kitfox went in nose first and burned the
> occupants beyond recognition. Do you or anyone else have any first hand
> knowledge of the crash?
>
> Bob Busick
> RV-6
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dierks(at)austin.ibm.com |
They are refering to one of several brand name acid etch for aluminum.
I think some is called Alumina Prep or some such name.
Dupont also has it, it is the first step of the alodine process they use.
This is 225S (acid etch) and the alodine is 226S.
I like the acid etch as it really cleans the metal 'squeeky' clean and
I use the scotch brite pads at the same time.
I normally clean the metal with MEK or epoxy reducer first to get most of
the oils and Sharpie pen marks off. Then I acid etch and rub with scotch brite.
I prefer this method as you may work the oils into the metal by rupping with
scotch brite first.
You may want to use some rubber gloves when you work with the acid etch,
most of the time I don't bother.
Herman
> From root Mon Jul 10 23:20:07 1995
> Errors-To: bounces(at)matronics.com
> Precedence: bulk
> Date: Tue, 11 Jul 1995 10:34:32 -0800
> Message-Id: <9507111834.AA11246(at)koala.icn.su.OZ.AU>
> X-Sender: leo(at)koala.icn.su.oz.au
> Mime-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> To: RV_LIST(at)matronics.com
> From: icn.su.OZ.AU!leo(at)matronics.com (Leo Davies)
> Subject: aluprep
> X-Mailer:
>
> I have been preparing before priming by degreasing, scuffing with fine
> ScotchBrite and then rinsing with methylated spirits. I noticed a reference
> to "Aluprep" in the list: is this just a solvent or some sort of passivating
> agent? Does anyone have experience with this or other prep agents? Any
> recommendations?
> Cheers,
> Leo Davies
> Waiting for Godot (well fuse kit actually)
>
>
--
--------------------------------------------------------
*NOTICE for internet mail*: Any ideas or thoughts expressed here are my
own and are independent of my employer.
Herman Dierks, Dept. E54S, AWSD Austin, Texas
AIX Network Performance Measurement/Analysis
phone: TL 678-2831 outside: (512) 838-2831
ZIP: 9632 fax: 512-838-1801
mail: dierks(at)austin.ibm.com VM: DIERKS at AUSVM6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dierks(at)austin.ibm.com |
| Subject: | Lycoming Engine Coding (fwd) |
I thought Van put a list of codes and engines at the back of the
builders manual. Mine has one but the manual is about 8 yrs old.
Some of the common codes:
For the O-320-
A is the conical mount 150HP, ie A2B
B is the conical mount 160HP
D is the Dynafocal mount 160HP, Van sells this model.
E is the Dynafocal mount 150HP, ie -E2D very common as used in C172
and used in lots of RV's and has
7/16 in prop bolts.
The 0360 is more complex. I sent some notes on this about 6 weeks ago.
The O-360 A?? is the 180 HP carb version like Van sells.
IO-360-B?? is 180 HP injected, ie O360-B4A
Above types are the 'parallel valve' engines similar to O320's.
IO-350-A?? is 200 HP. This is the Angle valve version. Larger and heavier.
Lots of variations on the carb mount or injector mount (bottom, front, or
rear), prop gonover, etc. Tha is where the rest of the code letters come in.
The main variables are, the motor mount type, The prop bolt size,
and the accessories (usually mag type). Also the crank type, if it is
set up for Const. Speed prop or not.
The other variable is the narrow deck or wide deck engine.
This latter is tricky as there are
both -A2B engines tha are narrow deck and some are Wide Deck.
To determine that, you need the engine Serial Number as a letter there
indicates if it is wide or narrow deck.
Van now recommends using the 7/16" prop bolt engines for O320's if possible
instead of the 3/8" prop bolt engines.
I have some info at home on this and will try to bring it in pass on the
document number or summarize it.
Herman
> From root Tue Jul 11 11:37:56 1995
> Errors-To: bounces(at)matronics.com
> Precedence: bulk
> Date: 10 Jul 95 23:30:39 EDT
> From: "Terence C. Gannon" <compuserve.com!74267.3003(at)matronics.com>
> To: RV-LIST
> Subject: Lycoming Engine Coding
> Message-Id: <950711033038_74267.3003_HHJ51-13(at)CompuServe.COM>
>
> Regulars on the list over the last couple of weeks will have seen a stready
> stream of basic questions from me regarding a prospective RV-6 project. Here's
> the next one; can anyone provide a list of the "codes" that Lycoming uses for
> its engines. I'm going through the various publications to get a feel for
> engine prices, and they are almost exclusively referred to using the code.
> Don't get me wrong...I now the "O" is opposed, the "320" is the displacement
> (for example), but it's some of the more subtle variations I'd like to know
> about. If there is a reference out there I should be using, please don't
> hesitate to let me know! Great list, and thanx to all for your help!
> Regards...Terry in Calgary
>
>
--
--------------------------------------------------------
*NOTICE for internet mail*: Any ideas or thoughts expressed here are my
own and are independent of my employer.
Herman Dierks, Dept. E54S, AWSD Austin, Texas
AIX Network Performance Measurement/Analysis
phone: TL 678-2831 outside: (512) 838-2831
ZIP: 9632 fax: 512-838-1801
mail: dierks(at)austin.ibm.com VM: DIERKS at AUSVM6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | twg(at)blink.ho.att.com (Tom Goeddel(x5278)) |
| Subject: | Re: Oops... Now what? |
For what it's worth - I decided to call Van's about my nicked rivet question.
Their answer was leave it alone - those rivets carry very little load anyway
and I'd likely do more harm trying to remove all ten of the rivets holding the
aileron hinge bracket on to gain access to the two offending rivets.
Tom Goeddel
RV-6a
t.goeddel(at)att.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CAP10ZOOM(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: EAA Arlington 95, Kitfox Crash |
>Don
> Were you at Arlington this weekend. I heard on the news that on Sunday
a
Kitfox went in >nose first and burned the occupants beyond recognition. Do
you or anyone else have any first hand
>knowledge of the crash?
>
>Bob Busick
>RV-6
>
Hi Gang....
I hate to be the bearer of bad tidings, but on the last day of the Arlington
EAA Fly-In, NSI's demo ship, a much modified Series V Kitfox, was involved in
a tragic accident that took the lives of two NSI employees. The bird took off
right behind me as I was blasting off in the G-200 and as the territory to
the north of the Fly-In site was being encroached by a pretty active squall
line some 7 to 10 miles away. After two passes over the field, NSI employees
Slade Holmes and Gordon Bennett then flew to the North and were last seen
well below me about a mile from the rain line. Shortly thereafter, the
aircraft apparently crashed and burned on impact with the ground after a
collision with trees. According to last eyewitnesses, the aircraft was at
extremely low (tree-top) level, in controlled, straight and level flight when
impact occurred at the front of a tree line bordering an open field. Three
FAA inspectors were called to the scene and at this time the preliminary
determination by these investigators is that the accident appears to be
caused by "controlled flight into terrain under deteriorating weather
conditions". Take my word for it, the rain and visibility in that area were
the pits, as I was not too far away from them trying to eke out a few extra
minutes of acro in the limited "clear" zone in front of the storm.
The Kitfox Series 5 aircraft was predominately intact, after the accident,
despite impact into several trees. It was equipped with an NSI EA81 and
cockpit adjustable propeller. Both were operating in a cruise configuration
at the time of impact. The aircraft was equipped with a BRS emergency
parachute recovery system which was not deployed and was probably of little
value considering the altitude and circumstances. After looking at the
accident sight and talking to others involved in checking out the accident. I
feel it's safe to say, at the moment, that the possibility of airframe or
systems failure of either portion of the Kitfox/NSI bird as contributory to
the accident seems exceptionally remote. US Aviator extends our condolences
to the families of those who perished and the staff of NSI.
By the way... I flew that same bird just a few days before and the aircraft
was operating and flying very well... the new prop being a very impressive
prototype. What a shame!
Jim Campbell
US Aviator magazine
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Wentz <Don_Wentz(at)ccm2.hf.intel.com> |
Gang, there are a few of us 'locals' that are fortunate enough to get to
'hang-out' at the proto shop now and then. Even tho we have been watching a
'new' RV design go together over the last few months, we can't discuss it
outside of those who have also seen it, else we violate a trust and wear-out
our welcome over at Van's.
That said, even we haven't been told exactly what it is and why it is. We've
now seen some speculation begun, so just remember that "I heard it was this"
and "I think it's that" is just hearsay and speculation. Enjoy it for that and
nothing more, and get the REAL story in a few weeks at Oshkosh.
I have my own theories about what it is, but that's all they are, theories.
BTW, never heard of an RV-7...
The Duck, N790DW, 180HP RV-6, #20369
----------
From: Dick Steffens
Subject: RV-8
Date: Monday, July 10, 1995 7:43AM
I heard a rumor that Van is going to introduce an RV-8 at Oskosh that is
suppose to be his answer to the Harmon Rocket. Anything to this?
Dick
RV-6
__________
I was at the Arlington fly-in this past weekend, and heard talk of both an
RV-7 and an RV-8. My understanding was that the -8 is a redesigned version
of the -4. With a slightly wider body, larger wing tanks, and the baggage
compartment moved in front of the cockpit for a better CG. And the -7 was a
redesign for a larger HP engine. (I may have the -8 and -7 backwards.) I
guess that people had talked to Van at the fly-in and learned this, but I
did not talk to him personally.
BTW Van's did a spectacular air show in a -4 up at Arlington, those of us
at the Puget Sound RVators picnic had front row seats to his performance.
The picnic was great, there were three -6's, one -3 and around eight -4's
including the Blackjack Squadron of Arlington, they had their own
formation flying performance before the field was closed for the airshow.
Hope to see everyone there next year!
John Bysinger
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | James Caufield <caufield(at)sequent.com> |
| Subject: | Slaved HI to GPS? |
I was admiring a guys RV-4 panel the other day and he mentioned
that if he could do it over he would leave out the heading
indicator. Seems he had tumbled it so many times while performing
aerobatics that it was essentially useless.
He then mentioned that it was possible to slave a gyro-less
heading indicator to a GPS unit and thus make it aerobatics
proof.
Has anyone heard of this? And, can you slave a CDI to the GPS
as well?
Thanks, I'm just thinking ahead.
| Date: | Jul 11, 1995 |
| From: | Richard Chandler <mauser(at)Claris.COM> |
| Subject: | Re: aluprep (fwd) |
To the person who keeps mailing to RV_LIST(at)matronics.com instead of
rv-list(at)matronics.com and screwing up my mail sorting, please, I don't know
why it still gets through, but it really should be a dash, not an underline.
(I get alerted when mail goes into my in box, but not when things go to the
other mailboxes that I have the system pre-sort things into).
--
"Wait a minute, you expect us innocent children to climb up dangerous
scaffolding and paint naked people all over a church? We'll do it!!"
-- Yakko Warner, Animaniacs
"Yeah, I've got ADD, you wanna make something of.... oooh, cool. Look!"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Graves <mgraves(at)ptdcs2.intel.com> |
Jerry Springer writes that it took 13 hours to fly 200 nm in an RV. Is this for
real???? 15 knots if awfully slow :^
Mike Graves
RV-6A in a box on the closet shelf.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | GETIPSWO(at)uop.com (GETIPSWO) |
| Subject: | On the subject of rear spar rivets... |
Not untill after I riveted my main wing rear spar doubler (the forked jobby)
did a freind of mine point out to me that the plans call for the shop heads
to be formed against the thicker doubler material rather that against the
thinner rear spar channel. I could remove all of them, but I also
considered the "first do no harm" principle and wonder if I should
consider these well enough to be left alone. They LOOK good the way
they are now and I'd hate to disturb them and risk damage.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Bysinger <john.bysinger(at)mccaw.com> |
| Subject: | CAD instrument panel (Jerry Springer) |
This is for Jerry Springer, I apologize to all the listers for sending this
through the list.
Jerry, I was wondering If you could Email a copy of your CAD instrument
panel file to me, Jim Morgan (who is also working on a -6) is interested in
using it (he wants to play around with some layouts on his computer) Please
specify what progam was used to draw it.
If you could, Email it directly to me at John.Bysinger(at)McCaw.com
Thanks for the help.
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
>
> [stuff deleted]
>
> BTW, never heard of an RV-7...
> The Duck, N790DW, 180HP RV-6, #20369
The RV-7 is a prototype "stealth" model RV. Looks like an RV-4 from a distance
but up close you can see it's 100% composite and has all faceted surfaces
instead of curves. Uses a ceamic engine and 4 bladed Ivoprop.
Trust me, you'll never see this one coming.
:-)
Randall Henderson
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rbibb(at)fore.com (Richard Bibb) |
| Subject: | Re: Oops... Now what? |
>
>This past weekend I was riveting on the aileron hinge brackets. After
>finishing up the outboard bracket, I discovered that my bucker had
>slipped a little and nicked with the bucking bar the corners of the shop
>heads of the center two of the four -4 rivets attaching the tip rib to
>the rear spar. My first reaction was "no big deal, we'll just replace those"
>but then I realized that those are flush rivets whose heads are beneath the
>just riveted on aileron hinge bracket. The more I think about it, the more I
>think that I should just leave well enough alone. To replace those two rivets
>will mean drilling out all 10 rivets on the hinge bracket - I'm afraid I will
>do more harm doing that by enlarging holes, etc. than by leaving a couple
>of slightly weak rivets in a lot less critical spot. Any thoughts?
Without seeing it it is hard to tell but my first instinct is to leave it
alone. Anytime I have had to drill out rivets it always seems to be worse
when I'm done....
My two cents.
RB
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Miner" <dougm(at)qm.WV.TEK.COM> |
| Subject: | Re: Slaved HI to GPS? |
RE>Slaved HI to GPS? 7/11/95 4:01 PM
I was buying my update to FlightStar from MentorPlus Software today, and caught
the tech guy outside playing with a GPS toy they are putting out... it slaves
to a laptop... for <500$!!! of course you need the moving map software they
offer, but if you have that... who needs a gizmo in the dash!...
wouldnt it be cool if your panel was just one flat lcd? you could yank and bank
without evening worring.
D~
--------------------------------------
Date: 7/11/95 3:48 PM
From: James Caufield
I was admiring a guys RV-4 panel the other day and he mentioned
that if he could do it over he would leave out the heading
indicator. Seems he had tumbled it so many times while performing
aerobatics that it was essentially useless.
He then mentioned that it was possible to slave a gyro-less
heading indicator to a GPS unit and thus make it aerobatics
proof.
Has anyone heard of this? And, can you slave a CDI to the GPS
as well?
Thanks, I'm just thinking ahead.
| From: | EdWisch(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Computerized panel layouts |
For those who are low budget, I published some panel layout stuff in the
October, 1992 Sport Aviation. If you're on AOL, I can send you the
(Macintosh) files from this address, otherwise email me at
ed_wischmeyer(at)asrs1.arc.nasa.gov.
Ed
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris Schulte" <chris(at)ASHTECH.COM> |
| Subject: | Re: On the subject of rear spar rivets... |
>Not untill after I riveted my main wing rear spar doubler (the forked jobby)
>did a freind of mine point out to me that the plans call for the shop heads
>to be formed against the thicker doubler material rather that against the
>thinner rear spar channel. I could remove all of them, but I also
>considered the "first do no harm" principle and wonder if I should
>consider these well enough to be left alone. They LOOK good the way
>they are now and I'd hate to disturb them and risk damage.
Leave it, that's fine the way you built it. You'll do more damage if you try
and change it.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JerryFlyRV(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: made it home |
>Jerry Springer writes that it took 13 hours to fly 200 nm in an RV. Is this
for real???? >15 knots if awfully slow :^
Mike Graves
>RV-6A in a box on the closet shelf.
Mike
I don't know if you were at Arlington this year but if you were you would
understand, normally it is only a little over a hour flight but had to sit at
Pierce County, WA. airport for 12 hours and wait for weather. :-(
Jerry Springer RV6 N906GS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "MIKE PILLA" <mpilla(at)ccsmtplink.espinc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Computerized panel layouts |
I made FrameMaker templates following the recommendations in Ed's
Sport Aviation article. Quite nice. Since I'm still building the
fuselage and haven't acquired instruments, I am not ready to "do it
for real", but Ed's approach was quite simple and straightforward.
Highly recommended.
Mike Pilla
pilla(at)espinc.com
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Computerized panel layouts
Date: 7/11/95 11:23 PM
For those who are low budget, I published some panel layout stuff in the
October, 1992 Sport Aviation. If you're on AOL, I can send you the
(Macintosh) files from this address, otherwise email me at
ed_wischmeyer(at)asrs1.arc.nasa.gov.
Ed
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DerFlieger(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: aluprep (fwd) |
I find that a prewash with soap and water (something like 409) prior to
wiping down with acetone or MEK will remove further aid the adhesion of the
primer. It removes the water soluble contaminants which the solvent only
moves around. In many cases there is not even a need to use a solvent if
you do a good job with scotchbrite and soapy water. Be sure to rinse it well
and not let it dry in the sun if you have hard water. Jim. RV6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Curt Reimer <Curt_Reimer(at)NtwkServ.MTS.MB.CA> |
| Subject: | Re: Oops... Now what? |
On Tue, 11 Jul 1995, Tom Goeddel wrote:
> I just wrestled with this same problem - how to hold the flap brace in the
> proper position to drill it to the spar. I finally settled on a method that
> worked well (for me, at least). I mounted the flap offset a few inches from
> its normal position (just intentionally misalign the piano hinge halves),
> still using the airfoil templates to hold it all in the correct position.
> You now have a clear shot to drill the first few holes. I then
> moved the flap down a little more, which cleared the way for the next few
> holes, and so on. I got around half of it drilled that way and convinced
> myself I couldn't mess up the positioning on the rest of it, took the whole
> thing off, and finished up the drilling. It's a bit of a pain to keep
> taking the flap on and off, but it took all of the uncertainty out of
> the alignment process - worth the trouble in my book.
Great idea. I originally drilled from the middle of the flap brace - out.
Starting at the outboard end like you suggest should ensure that I'm
lined up with the aileron.
Curt Reimer
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeremy <jbenedic(at)uofport.edu> |
| Subject: | Van's: J. Johanson Update [C] |
NORTH PLAINS, Oregon - July 12, 1995 - Van's Aircraft welcomed the
arrival of Australian Jon Johanson to Oregon this evening shortly after a
cross country (actually cross ocean) flight from down under. Johanson
arrived in Southern California last Friday, today making the flight
up north to Oregon. The longest leg of his adventure was from Hilo,
Hawaii to California, with a flight time of 15 hours and 12 minutes. Four
hours reserve remained in the gas tanks of his RV-4. His aircraft is
scheduled to be on display at the upcoming Hillsboro Air Show this weekend.
________________________________________________________________________________
Friday, July 28. After the show, his around the world flight will
continue eastward. To this point, Johanson has received greater
attention than he expected. International media has covered the story at
nearly every stop, with national televison cameras beaming his plight all
across his native land. This feat marks yet another entry in the
accomplishments of RV builders around the world.
Jeremy
[This message is transmitted informally on behalf of Van's Aircraft, but
all standard disclaimers apply. If anyone has any objections to news
from Van's being sent, please say so now for future reference.]
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 (total fiction) |
lots deleted
> BTW, never heard of an RV-7...
>The Duck, N790DW, 180HP RV-6, #20369
>
Don,
I heard the RV-7 is a replacement for the RV-6. It will fix all the landing
"problems" and, of course, use an auto engine.
Russell Duffy
RV-7 sn-00001
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: On the subject of rear spar rivets... |
I purposely put the round heads of the inner-most 12 or so rear spar
rivets on the inside, away from the rear spar flange strips. This was
to make it easier to get the wing walk ribs in and out for the purpose
of riveting the skins to those ribs and avoiding pop-rivets or painful
contortions (see Frank Justice's instructions for details on this
method.) I don't know of any reason other than that to have the round
heads on one side or the other, and in fact the "preferred method" is
to usually have the factory heads against the thinner material.
Randall Henderson
RV-6
>
> Not untill after I riveted my main wing rear spar doubler (the forked jobby)
> did a freind of mine point out to me that the plans call for the shop heads
> to be formed against the thicker doubler material rather that against the
> thinner rear spar channel. I could remove all of them, but I also
> considered the "first do no harm" principle and wonder if I should
> consider these well enough to be left alone. They LOOK good the way
> they are now and I'd hate to disturb them and risk damage.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeremy <jbenedic(at)uofport.edu> |
| Subject: | Van's: Johanson Update [C] |
NORTH PLAINS, Oregon - July 11, 1995 - Van's Aircraft welcomed the
arrival of Australian Jon Johanson to Oregon this evening shortly after a
cross country (actually cross ocean) flight from down under. Johanson
arrived in Southern California last Friday, today making the flight
up north to Oregon. The longest leg of his adventure was from Hilo,
Hawaii to California, with a flight time of 15 hours and 12 minutes. Four
hours reserve remained in the gas tanks of his RV-4. His aircraft is
scheduled to be on display at the upcoming Hillsboro Air Show this weekend.
>From there, he will slowly travel to Oshkosh, anticipating arrival on
Friday, July 28. After the show, his around the world flight will
continue eastward. To this point, Johanson has received greater
attention than he expected. International media has covered the story at
nearly every stop, with national televison cameras beaming his plight all
across his native land. This feat marks yet another entry in the
accomplishments of RV builders around the world.
Jeremy
[This message is transmitted informally on behalf of Van's Aircraft, so
all standard disclaimers apply. If anyone has any objections to news
from Van's being sent, please say so now for future reference.]
[BTW: This is the second copy sent, the first looks like it disappeared
into cyberspace, sorry if two eventually show up.]
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Chandler <mauser(at)Claris.COM> |
> The RV-7 is a prototype "stealth" model RV. Looks like an RV-4 from a
> distance but up close you can see it's 100% composite and has all faceted
> surfaces instead of curves. Uses a ceamic engine and 4 bladed Ivoprop.
>
> Trust me, you'll never see this one coming.
Yeah, especially after it sheds a blade....
Maybe Van has finally relented and come up with a 4-place. Ooooh, Family
Aerobatics! What a concept!
--
"Wait a minute, you expect us innocent children to climb up dangerous
scaffolding and paint naked people all over a church? We'll do it!!"
-- Yakko Warner, Animaniacs
"Yeah, I've got ADD, you wanna make something of.... oooh, cool. Look!"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "A. Reichert" <reichera(at)clark.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Van's: J. Johanson Update [C] |
Absolutely no objections here. Do you know his flight plan? (This is
where I show my ignorance, right?)
- Alan
____________________________________________
| Alan Reichert - Wannabe RV-6 Builder |
|--------------------------------------------|
| Preview plans received! #24179 |
| Study...study...look for tools...study.... |
|--------------------------------------------|
|http://www.clark.net/pub/reichera/home.html |
|____________________________________________|
On Wed, 12 Jul 1995, Jeremy wrote:
> NORTH PLAINS, Oregon - July 12, 1995 - Van's Aircraft welcomed the
> arrival of Australian Jon Johanson to Oregon this evening shortly after a
> cross country (actually cross ocean) flight from down under. Johanson
> arrived in Southern California last Friday, today making the flight
> up north to Oregon. The longest leg of his adventure was from Hilo,
> Hawaii to California, with a flight time of 15 hours and 12 minutes. Four
> hours reserve remained in the gas tanks of his RV-4. His aircraft is
> scheduled to be on display at the upcoming Hillsboro Air Show this weekend.
> From there, he will slowly travel to Oshkosh, anticipating arrival on
> Friday, July 28. After the show, his around the world flight will
> continue eastward. To this point, Johanson has received greater
> attention than he expected. International media has covered the story at
> nearly every stop, with national televison cameras beaming his plight all
> across his native land. This feat marks yet another entry in the
> accomplishments of RV builders around the world.
>
> Jeremy
>
> [This message is transmitted informally on behalf of Van's Aircraft, but
> all standard disclaimers apply. If anyone has any objections to news
> from Van's being sent, please say so now for future reference.]
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "A. Reichert" <reichera(at)clark.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 (total fiction) |
Yeah, the concept is neat. It has BOTH a nosewheel and tailwheel. The
Mains pivot forward and backward. When they pivot forward, the nosewheel
retracts into the fuse for that "just-polished taildragger look." When
pivoted back, the nosewheel extends for the tri-gear look, and the
tailwheel remains as a tailcone protector for those who get too rough
with the elevator.
Now for the ducted fan version...
- Alan
____________________________________________
| Alan Reichert - Wannabe RV-6 Builder |
|--------------------------------------------|
| Preview plans received! #24179 |
| Study...study...look for tools...study.... |
|--------------------------------------------|
|http://www.clark.net/pub/reichera/home.html |
|____________________________________________|
> Don,
>
> I heard the RV-7 is a replacement for the RV-6. It will fix all the landing
> "problems" and, of course, use an auto engine.
>
> Russell Duffy
> RV-7 sn-00001
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RV letter from Prudential (non-tech) |
Greetings,
This letter came in the mail today. I don't really like the sound of it and
I was curious if anyone else got one.
Russell Duffy
RV-6 (fuel tanks)
Letter Follows:
Prudential Securities
July 5, 1995
Dear Russell,
As a fellow RV buider I want to make an acquaintance via this
letter. My RV 6A will be completed by March '96 and I hope to be
scheduling flights into small and private airstrips around Florida
during 1996.
In addition to aircraft, I have another area of concentration:
financial planning. For years I have been helping individuals and
businessmen, ensuring that their planning is constructed to produce
adequate retirement dollars.
You might call me a retirement specialist, as flying is my hobby.
Both are important, but without the proper financial planning my
flying enjoyment would be affected.
I will try to contact you within the next few weeks; maybe we
could meet, in 1995 or 1996, at a convenient airport to discuss
both flying and your financial future as you see it.
Sincerely,
John J. Quinn, III
Senior Vice-President - Investments
E. Bruce Whorton
Financial Advisor
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | HVLP and compressors |
We've had a lot of talk about painting, booths, etc. I've heard
nobody mention that Binks makes an HVLP sprayer which runs off
a compressor (ie converts hplv to hvlp at the gun). It seems
like a natural since rv builders have already shelled out the bucks
for a compressor anyway. I think I paid around $250 for my Binks
Mach 1. I know there are other brands, but the salesman (unbiased of
course) told me that Binks was the best. BTW, that $250 was before
I added a regulator, pressure cup, and .070(?) orifice.
I just painted my truck in my garage with no drop cloth and have
only a small amount of paint dust on the floor.
Although I'm not an expert, I believe the mach 1 is capable of
doing expert work.
If anyone wants more info, email me at karl@dg-rtp.dg.com and
judging by the number of requests, I'll email or broadcast a bunch
more info.
COMPRESSOR NOISE QUESTION:
I have an oiless compressor and it's VERY loud. A friend just
hired a contractor who had a compressor that was quiet. I think
he said it was not oiless. Does anybody know anything about
quiet compressors. I need a minimum of 3hp and average size tank.
BTW, I just read an article about compressors in the magazine
"Tools of the trade." Unfortunately, they didn't mention noise.
They did say:
Oiless - cheaper, can set on uneven surface, less than 1 hr and
cheap ($20?) to overhaul, several thousand hours between
overhauls.
Oil - cost more, must be run on even surface, easy, slightly
dirty and ($50?) to overhaul, about triple the time
between overhauls.
Either one sounds like it'll build several RV's before it needs
an overhaul.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Don Karl karl@dg-rtp.dg.com (919)248-5915
________________________________________________________________________________
In a previous post, someone mentioned they saw a retractable RV.
I'm soooo curious (key word is curious). Can anyone tell us
about it? Design, performance and weight specs, what the
builder thinks with 20/20 hindsight, etc?
Thanks,
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Don Karl karl@dg-rtp.dg.com (919)248-5915
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Wentz <Don_Wentz(at)ccm2.hf.intel.com> |
>lots deleted
>> BTW, never heard of an RV-7...
>>The Duck, N790DW, 180HP RV-6, #20369
>
>Don,
>
>I heard the RV-7 is a replacement for the RV-6. It will fix all the
>landing "problems" and, of course, use an auto engine.
>Russell Duffy RV-7 sn-00001
Cute Russell, real cute. Actually, speaking of auto engines, a bunch of us
locals were checking out the NSI stuff and that Kitfox right before the fateful
flight. There was a guy there with his RV-6 fuse that they are using to dev the
firewall forward kit.
I have to say that it is a nice looking installation. Very clean, custom
engine/gearleg mount, oil sump, radiator, etc. He said that the 160hp is a
stock engine, straight from Subaru (not the junkyard). They didn't use any
custom engine parts to make it easier for owners to source replacements. This
should also help reliability. Includes the muffler (which sounded real nice on
that Kitfox), the 3 blade electrically adjustable prop too.
The whole package is about $15K, however, I never realized that included
EVERYTHING, from the mounts to the engine, gear reduction, cowl, plumbing,
controls, exhaust, even the prop. When they say firewall forward they mean it.
Notice that the cowl and mount can be removed from the RV kit price, which must
be around $1K savings.
For a Lyc installation like mine, you're looking at:
$1K - cowl, mount
$11K - engine (used, from a junkyard :-)
$1.1K - prop/extension ($3 - 5K for C/S)
$0.5K - Exhaust
$1.5K - Misc. controls, hoses, clamps, senders, baffling, etc.
$15.1 roughly for MY setup, could easily reach $25K for brand-new O-360 with new
CS prop/gov.
Now, this all looks great, and we're going to run-out and buy one, right? Not
necessarily. While the unit looks/sounds really nice, and the NSI
free-wheeling/clutched gear reduction unit SEEMS to work well, there is one
minor detail. Right now it's all theory. It looks like it will work, they
think it will be reliable, etc.
For those of you ready for an engine now, it may be too soon. But those of you
ready in a year or 2, this may be worth watching. Once SEVERAL high performance
planes have flown these for several hundred hours each, then you could begin to
consider it a viable alternative.
Again, I don't say it WON'T work, I say PROVE it will work.
A very good looking setup overall, I can't wait to see it in operation to see
how it actually works in that guy's RV-6. Should be interesting...
The Duck, N790DW, 180HP RV-6, #20369
PS - The electric prop is also supposed to be available for Lycomings for $2.5K.
Again, let them test them first...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Graves <mgraves(at)ptdcs2.intel.com> |
| Subject: | RV-8 (total fiction) |
Regarding the RV-8 auto engine, Van has once again pulled off an amazing feat of
aeronautical engineering! The new airframe is so sleek and clean that it seems
the aircraft will attain speeds of 475 kts with a modified YUGO engine. It
just seems that laying down in the fuselage for hours would be tedious! :-)
By the way, I wonder how you would see over the nose??
Mike Graves
RV-6A in a box on the closet shelf (dang!)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dierks(at)austin.ibm.com |
| Subject: | Lycoming engine Coding in detail, take 1. |
Well folks, here is a cut at more info on Lycomings in general and
some detail on use in RV's. Let me know of any errors. Herman
Version 1.0 7/12/95
Summary of Lycoming O-320 and O-360 Engine Identification
What follows below is a summary I obtained somewhere and I have enhanced it.
Another reference is Van's builder manual had a copy of a AVCO Lycoming
Aircraft Engines listing "SSP 279" dated July 1979. This is found in pages
34-35 in my old RV-4 manual from 1986. Don't know if it is still in
the builders manual. It lists all the models and describes each model.
What is below is a general description of all the codes.
Typical engine model is O-320-E2D or AEIO-360-B4A.
What do all these numbers mean?
General format is: Prefix letters- Displacement - Suffix letters
Prefix letters;
O = Opposed Cylinders
I = Fuel Injected (if no I, then carb model)
T = Turbo Supercharged
A = Aerobatic, typically comes from factory with a Christen Inverted
oil system but also may have heavier crank flange
H = Helicopter:
L = Left hand rotation
Displacement, In Cubic Inches. 235, 290, 320, 360.
Suffix letters is in the form: Power Section, Nose Section, Accessories
Power Section deals with crankcase type, cylinders, etc.
Codes used: A, B, C, D, E (see below)
Nose Section defines setup for propeller:
1 & 3 = Controllable Propeller
2 = Fixed Pitch Propeller
Accessory Section:
A = Rear Mounted Accessories, Bendix mags
B = Different mag's
D A 'D' on the end (4th or 5th letter of suffex)
indicates the Bendix 'Dual mag' in single housing.
6 On 4 cyl, a 6 indicates one sixth order and one eighth order
counterweights on crank. Only on 200HP as far as I know,
for example IO-360-A1B6D.
? Other letters identify the Mag's, oil sump, carb variations
Serial Numbers
In addition to the engine model number, you have to use the Serial Number
to obtain additional information.
Serial numbers end with a 'dash number', such as '-27' which identifies
the engine type:
-27 is for all O320 A and E engines (ie 150 HP).
-39 is for all O-320 B, C and D engines (ie 160 HP)
The serial number 'dash number' may be followed by a letter.
A 'A' designates a 'Wide Deck' engine and the lack of the 'A' means it
is a 'Narrow Deck' engine. This applies to O-320 and O-360 engines.
For example, O-320-A2B engines come in both narrow and wide deck models
and you must know the serial number to determine what type it is if
you are talking to someone on the phone and can't see the engine yourself.
A -27A would be a wide deck version while a -27 is a narrow deck version.
Wide Deck engines have a larger diameter bold circle at the cylinder base
(thus the name) and the cylinders have a thicker base flange of a larger
diameter than the narrow deck cylinders.
The high compression narrow deck engines (160 HP O320's and the 180HP
O360's) have a 'doubler' or hold down plate atop the cylinder base flange.
This reinforces this area where the cylinder bolts to the case.
Most internal parts are the same on narrow and wide deck engines but
check the parts book for sure when ordering or swapping parts.
O-320's
========
The O-320's come in 150 HP (low compression) and 160 HP (high compression)
versions. The other main difference is what motor mount style the crankcase
is setup for (conical or dynafocal). Conical mount uses the simple pair
of 'cone' rubbers at each mount and the bolts are parallel with the
crank. The dynafocal mounts use the larger rubber biskets and the bolts
are angled to point to the center of mass of the engine and prop.
The fixed pitch are Type 1 mount (30 degree) and the constant speed prop
engines use the Type 2 (18 degree) as the heavier prop shifts the mass
forward. The dynafocal mount was designed to cancel out a lot of the
vibration.
O-320 A 150 HP, conical mount, low compression.
E 150 HP, Dynafocal mount, Type 1 (30degree), low compression
Some models derated to 140HP and 2450 RPM.
O-320 B 160 HP, conical mount, high compression
D 160 HP, Dynafocal mount, high compression
O-320 C 150 HP, field conversion of O-320-B to 150 HP low compression
O-320-H 160 HP. This is a "unique" engine and different from A, B, C, D
engines. Most parts DO NOT interchange with the other
engines. This is the famous engine used in Cessna 172's
between 1979-1981(??). Numerous AD's and Service Bulletin
apply. Not recommended for use on RV 3/4/5 due to motor
mount problems on the rear dynafocal ring and the
fuel pump is in front and will hit the cowl.
9:1 compression ratio.
Example O-320-H1AD,
has integral Acc case, front mounted fuel pump, external
oil pump, and D4 RN-2021 dual magneto.
IO-320 A 150 HP, low compression, 7.0:1
A- Type 2 dynafocal mount.
IO-320 B, C, D, F, High Compression 8.5:1 160 HP
B- Type 2 (18 degree) Dynafocal mount
C- Type 2 Dynafocal mount, setup for turbocharging,
piston cooling, long reach plugs, etc.
D- Type 1 (30 degree) Dynafocal mount
F- Same as C but with Type 1 mount.
NOTE: IO-320-B1A not suited for RV 3/4/6 unless
oil sump and induction tubes changed.
O-360's
=======
The O-360's come in both 180 HP and 200 HP models.
The 180 HP engines are all 'parallel valve' engines, like the O-235/290/320's
and come in both carb and fuel injected models.
The 200 HP engines are all fuel injected (IO) and have the 'angle valve'
cylinders (supposedly for beather breathing). These engines are wider and
heavier and have larger cranks, rods, etc. than the 180 HP versions.
This is tricky because the IO-360 by itself is not enough to tell if you
have a parallel( 180 HP) or angle valve (200HP) engine. You must look
at the suffex to be sure.
O-360 A and C are high compression 8.5:1, 180 HP @ 2700 RPM parallel valve.
-A has Dynafocal mount
-C has Conical mount ( serial number -36)
O-360 B and D are low compression 7.2:1 168HP @ 2700 RPM parallel valve.
-B has Dnyafocal mount
-D has Conical mount ( serial number -36)
IO_360 A, C, and D high compression 8.7:1 200 HP @ 2700 RPM Angle Valve
with Bendix Fuel Injection.
-A Dynafocal mount type 1(30 degree)
-C Dynafocal mount Type 1(30 degree), rear air inlet for Fuel Injector.
-D Dynafocal mount Type 2(18 degree), (serial number -51)
IO-360 B and E high compression 8.5:1, 180 HP @ 2700 RPM parallel valve
B type 1 30 degree Dynafocal mount
E Type 2, 18 degree Dynafocal mount
AIO-360 is Aerobatic.
AEIO-360 is AIO360 with Aerobatic kit, Serial Dash -63).
Some Dry weights:
O-320-A, E 244 lb 150 HP
O-320-B, D 255 lb 160 HP
O-360-A 265 180 HP
IO-360-A, C 293 200 HP
AEIO-360-A 299 200 HP aerobatic
Another issue is prop bolt diameter. I have not been able to determine
any number that indicates the bolt diameter.
The O-320's have either 3/8 or 7/16 prop bolts and it varies by engine
model. The O-360's have 1/2 inch bolts. The Lycoming article noted at
the top of this article indicates the prop bolt diameters.
Another reference is an article by Alfred Scott "For-Cylinder Lycomings"
published in "Light Plane Maintenance", Dec. 1989, Vol 11, No 12.
I think he wrote this for the Falco builders.
For RV's, Van's sells two engines:
O-320-D1A, 160 HP, 7/16 prop bolts, slik mags, carb
O-360-A1A, 180 HP,
A check list to ensure you get what you want:
Case mount; Conical or Dynafocal
If Dynafocal, Type 1 or Type 2
Fixed pitch or Adj. pitch Prop setup.
Narrow or Wide Deck:
Prop Bolt Diam:
High or Low compression ratio (determines type of Fuel you can burn)
Low compression can use auto fuel.
Carb or Injector
If injected, determine Injector model. Bendix is the most common
but some have the very expensive Simmonds FI.
If injector, Injector mounting location (bottom, rear, front)
Watch out for the -H engine, may be OK for some appliction and if the
price is right. With latest mods, may be OK but not recommended for RV's.
Watch out for Dual Mag versions.
Converting a 150 HP to 160 HP.
This can be done. The 160's have Nitrided Cylinders from the factory
and they specify nitrided or Chromed for conversion to 160HP.
You need the 160 HP pistons and wrist pins. Get the pins with presses in
plugs. You should also only do this on the wide deck engines.
However, it has been done on narrow deck engines for Exp. use.
7/16 in valves. Be aware that there are still old 320's out there with
7/16 in. exhaust valves. The factory went to 1/2 in. ex. valves in the
early 70's. You can convert to the 1/2 valves on a top OH. You must change
the guides and valves. Also the valve spring seat changes as does the
valve spring top keeper. There is a SB on how to do this.
The End.
--------------------------------------------------------
*NOTICE for internet mail*: Any ideas or thoughts expressed here are my
own and are independent of my employer.
Herman Dierks, Dept. E54S, AWSD Austin, Texas
mail: dierks(at)austin.ibm.com VM: DIERKS at AUSVM6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle (Matt G. Dralle 1+ 510-447-9886) |
| Subject: | Re: RV letter from Prudential (non-tech) |
Geeze, some people will say *anything* to make a sale... ;-)
Matt
>--------------
>Greetings,
>
>This letter came in the mail today. I don't really like the sound of it and
>I was curious if anyone else got one.
>
>Russell Duffy
>RV-6 (fuel tanks)
>
>Letter Follows:
>
> Prudential Securities
>
>
>July 5, 1995
>Dear Russell,
>
>As a fellow RV buider I want to make an acquaintance via this
>letter. My RV 6A will be completed by March '96 and I hope to be
>scheduling flights into small and private airstrips around Florida
>during 1996.
>
>In addition to aircraft, I have another area of concentration:
>financial planning. For years I have been helping individuals and
>businessmen, ensuring that their planning is constructed to produce
>adequate retirement dollars.
>
>You might call me a retirement specialist, as flying is my hobby.
>Both are important, but without the proper financial planning my
>flying enjoyment would be affected.
>
>I will try to contact you within the next few weeks; maybe we
>could meet, in 1995 or 1996, at a convenient airport to discuss
>both flying and your financial future as you see it.
>
>Sincerely,
>
>
>
>John J. Quinn, III
>Senior Vice-President - Investments
>
>
>
>E. Bruce Whorton
>Financial Advisor
>
>
>--------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "A. Reichert" <reichera(at)clark.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV letter from Prudential (non-tech) |
Russ,
This is the first I've seen the letter, but if one is sent to me, I will
take appropriate action against him. I don't appreciate unsolicited
trash.
- Alan
____________________________________________
| Alan Reichert - Wannabe RV-6 Builder |
|--------------------------------------------|
| Preview plans received! #24179 |
| Study...study...look for tools...study.... |
|--------------------------------------------|
|http://www.clark.net/pub/reichera/home.html |
|____________________________________________|
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ammeterj(at)ammeterj.seanet.com (John Ammeter) |
| Subject: | 7/16" prop bolts |
I recently read in the list that Van recommends the 7/16" bolts over the
3/8" bolts for the prop. I happen to have the 3/8" bolts in my RV-6 and
also have 7/16" nut inserts for the crank. Would it be worth it to me to
buy (lots of $$$$'s I'm sure) the larger bolts and change from the 3/8"
bolts to the 7/16" bolts??? I assume I would have to change both the bolts
that are in the prop as well as the bolts that hold the prop extension to
the crank. And, of course, I would have to ream out/drill out the holes in
the prop and extension. I live in Seattle where the humidity is fairly
constant year round.
The story of why I happen to have the 7/16" nut inserts will have to wait
until another time. Suffice it to say, I've finally sold the CS prop and
governor, still have a CS spinner waiting for a buyer. Don't trust A&P's!!!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Terence C. Gannon" <74267.3003(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | First Tentative Step |
It's not earth shattering news, folks, but I did send my $50 bucks ($75
Canadian) away today for Preview Plans, Manual and a serial number. Yikes, this
must be getting serious! Now I can put one of those little status reports under
my name!! :-)
Thanks to all of you for your encouragement!
Terry in Calgary
"waiting for Preview Plans"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Baines <bill(at)sfu.ca> |
| Subject: | retractable RV? (fwd) |
>
> In a previous post, someone mentioned they saw a retractable RV.
> I'm soooo curious (key word is curious). Can anyone tell us
> about it? Design, performance and weight specs, what the
> builder thinks with 20/20 hindsight, etc?
>
> Thanks,
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> Don Karl karl@dg-rtp.dg.com (919)248-5915
I responded to that message, but I may have sent it directly to the
original poster, or it went to the bit bucket.
If the airplane was red on white with a Canadian registration, it
is probably the workmanship of Brian Carr. It is his 4th RV-4.
I don't know Brian well, but he is one of several active
builder/flyers at the Langley airport (BC) where I work. He is
an airline pilot and I believe he has access to engineering skills
if he wants or needs them.
The airplane had about 33 hours on it a couple of weeks ago when I
last spoke to Brian. It is powered by a O360, Ellison throttle body,
constant speed prop. and is " somewhere between 14 and 20 " mph faster
than his third RV-4 which is similarly powered. He did not offer that
info, but generalized when pressed. He seems reluctant to overstate.
The mains and tail wheel all retract. The tailwheel is forward
of its original position. Wing tanks were moved out. Retraction power
is electric powered hydraulic with that gear mounted aft somewhere --
I dont really know where, but the motor runs briefly when the DC
master is switched on, and I heard it in the tailcone. I suspect that
the weight penalty is 75 pounds or more -- but I am guessing. He did
tell me the empty weight, but I don't remember the value -- other than
it was high for a basic RV, which this is not.
I personally dont think that this mod is for me, but I must admit that
I am very impressed with the engineering/design/fabrication effort
that he undertook.
Also on that aircraft is a sliding canopy which looks great to me. I
have been thinking about copying his design if time permits. I get the
feeling from Brian that Van doesn't fully approve of his modifications.
Brian responded to a cold call from me about a year and a half ago
when I was considering getting back into the homebuilding hobby after
a 15 year hiatus. He spent 2 or 3 hours showing me his 3rd RV-4, an
RV-6 and an RV-6a discussing all the pros/cons/etc... I was impressed
that he would take all that time, because he sure gets lots of tire
kickers around his hanger. He has started a 6A.
--
Bill Baines, bill(at)sfu.ca
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | meehan(at)coopext.cahe.wsu.edu (Don Meehan) |
| Subject: | Re: RV letter from Prudential (non-tech) |
I don't feel this sort of thing is appropriate for the rvlist. Let's keep
focused on building planes not portfolios.
Whidbey RVators
>>--------------
>>Greetings,
>>
>>This letter came in the mail today. I don't really like the sound of it and
>>I was curious if anyone else got one.
>>
>>Russell Duffy
>>RV-6 (fuel tanks)
>>
>>Letter Follows:
>>
>> Prudential Securities
>>
>>
>>July 5, 1995
>>Dear Russell,
>>
>>As a fellow RV buider I want to make an acquaintance via this
>>letter. My RV 6A will be completed by March '96 and I hope to be
>>scheduling flights into small and private airstrips around Florida
>>during 1996.
>>
>>In addition to aircraft, I have another area of concentration:
>>financial planning. For years I have been helping individuals and
>>businessmen, ensuring that their planning is constructed to produce
>>adequate retirement dollars.
>>
>>You might call me a retirement specialist, as flying is my hobby.
>>Both are important, but without the proper financial planning my
>>flying enjoyment would be affected.
>>
>>I will try to contact you within the next few weeks; maybe we
>>could meet, in 1995 or 1996, at a convenient airport to discuss
>>both flying and your financial future as you see it.
>>
>>Sincerely,
>>
>>
>>
>>John J. Quinn, III
>>Senior Vice-President - Investments
>>
>>
>>
>>E. Bruce Whorton
>>Financial Advisor
>>
>>
>>--------------
>
>
>
>
>
Don Meehan
WSU Cooperative Extension
Island County
Coupeville, WA 98239-5000
206-679-7327
meehan(at)coopext.cahe.wsu.e
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Graves <mgraves(at)ptdcs2.intel.com> |
Hi guys!
I was just curious why the alternate engine focus seems to be on Subaru?Is
there some advantage over say Ford, Nissan, Toyota?
What about Briggs & Stratton?? (just kidding :-)
Having test driven a Subaru, I noticed that they were somewhat gutless when asked
to put out a lot of power.
Mike Graves
RV-6A in box on closet shelf
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Jon Johansen coming to RVBG Meeting |
Late Breaking Bulletin for PDX locals:
Still trying to decide whether or not to come to the Portland RVators
meeting tonight? Well fence-sit no longer! I just talked to Bill
Benedict and he told me Jon Johansen, Australian RV-4 World
Circumnavigator, is going to fly his RV-4 down to the meeting
this evening. So Be there or be square!
Randall
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Chandler <mauser(at)Claris.COM> |
| Subject: | Re: Why subaru?? |
> Hi guys!
> I was just curious why the alternate engine focus seems to be
> on Subaru?Is there some advantage over say Ford, Nissan, Toyota?
> What about Briggs & Stratton?? (just kidding :-)
>
> Having test driven a Subaru, I noticed that they were somewhat
> gutless when asked to put out a lot of power.
Well, for one thing, they are fairly light aluminum block engines,
horizontally opposed, and as reliable as the sun coming up. It does depend
on which engine you're talking about. I have a '92 Subaru Loyale (nee GL),
and while yeah, its 90 HP isn't all that impressive, it hasn't missed a beat.
The engines have nice features like hydraulic valve lash adjusters, and an
electronic ignition and fuel system that even compensates for altitude.
(Very handy when I crossed the rockies). They're pretty small too. Under
the hood, there's room for the engine, the 4WD transmission, the spare, and a
small child (Not a DOT approved seating arrangement, however). The heads are
maybe a foot deep.
On the other hand, get a ride with someone who has the somewhat rare SVX
model, and ask them to floor it on a clear road. You will not believe that
you are in a luxury sedan with an automatic transmission. A rocet sled on
rails perhaps....
--
"Wait a minute, you expect us innocent children to climb up dangerous
scaffolding and paint naked people all over a church? We'll do it!!"
-- Yakko Warner, Animaniacs
"Yeah, I've got ADD, you wanna make something of.... oooh, cool. Look!"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dierks(at)austin.ibm.com |
| Subject: | 7/16" prop bolts (fwd) |
I am confused about what you have.
Do you have 7/16 bolts in the crankshaft flange and then have 3/8 inch
bolts on the propeller bolting into the prop extension?
That is very common, for example on an O-320-E2D, it has 7/16 bolts so
you bolt the extension to the crank with 7/16" and then use 3/8 bolts
to bolt the prop to the extension.
I would say that with a wood prop and if you are not haveing any
problems I would leave it as is. Below is what I THINK you would need to
do if you want to change any of the sizes.
If you have 3/8 bolts at the crank flange and want to go to 7/16,
then you would have to replace all 6 bushings in the end of the
crank with the 7/16 hole version. These can be 'pressed' out but
may be very tight. I replaced some on my pitts with same size as
some were stripped and I heated the flange some and tapped them out.
It would be better to have a tool to press them out.
You would also have to drill out the 3/8 holes in the prob extension
to 7/16. I did this on one hub using a 'uni-bit' on a drill press and it
worked great as it drills a nice round hole. This was done when Van's
hubs were sold with 3/8 holes and you had to drill them out if you had
7/16 bolts.
He now stocks various versions so you can simply order the proper one
if you are buying it new. Don't buy the extension till you have your engine
and know what prop you will use then you can buy the correct extension
with the proper hole sizes.
BTW, buy the bolts from Van's (Prop Extension bolts) as he sells the
correct bolt in either 7/16 or 3/8 size. (were $21.00 for a set of 6).
To change the prop bolts that bolt into the extension, this can be
done two different ways. If you have self locking nuts holding the
prop bolts on, then all you have to do is drill out the 3/8 holes in
the hub (again use the uni-bit). The Prop would also have to have its
holes enlarged. If this is wood prop, it could probably be done on
a drill press. If the wood prop has metal bushings pressed into the
hub of the prop, then check with the mfg. to see if it is OK to drill
them out our they may have the proper size bushing that could be used.
If it is a metal prop (Experimental versions some of us use),
then it would also have to be drilled but would be more work.
The alternative is to get the proper metal prop as some are made with
7/16 holes vs 3/8 holes.
For example, you would switch from a 74DM6-0-54 to a 74DM7-0-54
(just an example as this is not enough pitch for a RV).
the 6 means 6/16 in (3/8) bolt hole and the 7 means 7/16 bolt hole.
I only see 3/8 or 1/2 prop bolts in Vans older catalog but I expect
he is stocking 7/16 size now. BTW, the 1/2 size is used on the 0-360.
If you have the pressed in threaded inserts in the prop extension,
(and don't use nuts) then these would have to be switched out or
they could be drilled out and then use longer bolts with nuts.
The company that makes the hubs for Van's (Woofter) told me it would be
OK to drill out the threads and use a nut.
Again, you can simply buy the proper hub to start with.
Herman
> From root Wed Jul 12 23:40:02 1995
> Errors-To: bounces(at)matronics.com
> Precedence: bulk
> Date: Wed, 12 Jul 1995 20:15:17 -0700
> Message-Id: <199507130315.UAA18172(at)seanet.com>
> X-Sender: ammeterj(at)pop.seanet.com (Unverified)
> X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4
> Mime-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> From: ammeterj.seanet.com!ammeterj(at)matronics.com (John Ammeter)
> Subject: 7/16" prop bolts
>
> I recently read in the list that Van recommends the 7/16" bolts over the
> 3/8" bolts for the prop. I happen to have the 3/8" bolts in my RV-6 and
> also have 7/16" nut inserts for the crank. Would it be worth it to me to
> buy (lots of $$$$'s I'm sure) the larger bolts and change from the 3/8"
> bolts to the 7/16" bolts??? I assume I would have to change both the bolts
> that are in the prop as well as the bolts that hold the prop extension to
> the crank. And, of course, I would have to ream out/drill out the holes in
> the prop and extension. I live in Seattle where the humidity is fairly
> constant year round.
>
> The story of why I happen to have the 7/16" nut inserts will have to wait
> until another time. Suffice it to say, I've finally sold the CS prop and
> governor, still have a CS spinner waiting for a buyer. Don't trust A&P's!!!!
>
>
--
--------------------------------------------------------
*NOTICE for internet mail*: Any ideas or thoughts expressed here are my
own and are independent of my employer.
Herman Dierks, Dept. E54S, AWSD Austin, Texas
AIX Network Performance Measurement/Analysis
phone: TL 678-2831 outside: (512) 838-2831
ZIP: 9632 fax: 512-838-1801
mail: dierks(at)austin.ibm.com VM: DIERKS at AUSVM6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gil(at)rassp.hac.com (Gil Alexander) |
| Subject: | Re: Why subaru?? (chatter) |
Aren't most of the Subaru aircraft conversions the 6 cylinder model
rather than the more numerous (on autos) 4 cylinder models??
Even my 86 Turbo (station wagon, 4 cyl.) was only rated at about
110 HP, and the aircraft versions are claiming in the 160 HP range.
BTW... I was not really impressed with the reliabilty, having
suffered both cylinder heads cracking at about 60,000 miles. Then I
discovered the local Subaru dealer actually stocks raw cylinder head
castings (ie. no valves, cams etc) for most models. Apparently any
overheating incident that would not really affect other autos will cause
cracked cylinder heads -- in my case, cracks between both valve ports. If
you are using them for aircraft, keep the cooling system operating
perfectly and keep an eye on the coolant temperature!
The fuel system (1986) seems to be a direct copy (license?) of the
reliable Bosch electronic unit of the late 70s and early 80s (same as my 81
Fiat spider) that measures air mass flow - this should be pretty good at
altitude compensating.
... Gil Alexander, RV6A, #20701 ... still cockpit stuff
>> Hi guys!
>> I was just curious why the alternate engine focus seems to be
>> on Subaru?Is there some advantage over say Ford, Nissan, Toyota?
>> What about Briggs & Stratton?? (just kidding :-)
>>
>> Having test driven a Subaru, I noticed that they were somewhat
>> gutless when asked to put out a lot of power.
>
>Well, for one thing, they are fairly light aluminum block engines,
>horizontally opposed, and as reliable as the sun coming up. It does depend
>on which engine you're talking about. I have a '92 Subaru Loyale (nee GL),
>and while yeah, its 90 HP isn't all that impressive, it hasn't missed a beat.
>The engines have nice features like hydraulic valve lash adjusters, and an
>electronic ignition and fuel system that even compensates for altitude.
>(Very handy when I crossed the rockies). They're pretty small too. Under
>the hood, there's room for the engine, the 4WD transmission, the spare, and a
>small child (Not a DOT approved seating arrangement, however). The heads are
>maybe a foot deep.
>
>On the other hand, get a ride with someone who has the somewhat rare SVX
>model, and ask them to floor it on a clear road. You will not believe that
>you are in a luxury sedan with an automatic transmission. A rocet sled on
>rails perhaps....
>
>--
>"Wait a minute, you expect us innocent children to climb up dangerous
> scaffolding and paint naked people all over a church? We'll do it!!"
> -- Yakko Warner, Animaniacs
>"Yeah, I've got ADD, you wanna make something of.... oooh, cool. Look!"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JIM SCHMIDT <JIM.SCHMIDT(at)mail.mei.com> |
| Subject: | NSI conversions -Reply |
Was that 160HP a 4 or 6 cylinder? I'm
wondering if they are using the SVX engine.
I also wonder if they have a truck engine.
There was an article a few years back in
Sport Aviation about flying trucks.
It made a lot of sense to me that engines
for trucks are designed to run a 75% power
all day long. Cars are not. With the
exception of the VW. Which arguably has
been the most succesfull conversion. ( I
still wouldn't fly behind one.)
I tried to find out from Formula Power if
they were importing a truck engine but no
one seems to know or is willing to talk
about it. Most truck engines in the US have
heavier blocks to handle the pounding of
the crankshaft and dissapate the heat at
those constant high power levels.
I will certaninly be interested in about 2
years, hopefully when I'm ready for one.
Jim
RV6 23082 Pro-sealing second tank.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "greg pisanich" <greg(at)snapper.arc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 (total fiction) |
Hi All, I got a fax-back of the oshkosh convention forums and there is some
hint of the RV-8 there.
There are two RV forums that I have seen:
Saturday @ 1-2:15pm: Rv-6 and RV-6A.
Monday @ 1-2:15: RV-3, RV-4, and RV-8.
These times are accurate as of mid june. (Check your official guide upon
arriving.)
GP.
On Jul 12, 3:54pm, Michael Graves wrote:
> Subject: RV-8 (total fiction)
> Regarding the RV-8 auto engine, Van has once again pulled off an amazing feat
of aeronautical engineering! The new airframe is so sleek and clean that it
seems the aircraft will attain speeds of 475 kts with a modified YUGO engine.
It just seems that laying down in the fuselage for hours would be tedious! :-)
> By the way, I wonder how you would see over the nose??
>
>
> Mike Graves
>
> RV-6A in a box on the closet shelf (dang!)
>-- End of excerpt from Michael Graves
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Greg Pisanich Email: greg(at)eos.arc.nasa.gov Tel: 415 604-1332 FAX: -0801
Flt Mgt. & Human Factors Div., NASA Ames Res. Ctr., MS262-6, MF, CA 94035
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Wentz <Don_Wentz(at)ccm2.hf.intel.com> |
| Subject: | Re[2]: Why subaru?? (chatter) |
These were 4 cylinder models. I don't know how they get 160hp out of
them. Failures like you outlined below are exactly why we want to see
someone ELSE fly them for a year or 2 before we try them, right gang?
The Duck, N790DW, 180HP RV-6, #20369
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Aren't most of the Subaru aircraft conversions the 6 cylinder model
rather than the more numerous (on autos) 4 cylinder models??
Even my 86 Turbo (station wagon, 4 cyl.) was only rated at about
110 HP, and the aircraft versions are claiming in the 160 HP range.
BTW... I was not really impressed with the reliabilty, having
suffered both cylinder heads cracking at about 60,000 miles. Then I
discovered the local Subaru dealer actually stocks raw cylinder head
castings (ie. no valves, cams etc) for most models. Apparently any
overheating incident that would not really affect other autos will cause
cracked cylinder heads -- in my case, cracks between both valve ports. If
you are using them for aircraft, keep the cooling system operating
perfectly and keep an eye on the coolant temperature!
The fuel system (1986) seems to be a direct copy (license?) of the
reliable Bosch electronic unit of the late 70s and early 80s (same as my 81
Fiat spider) that measures air mass flow - this should be pretty good at
altitude compensating.
... Gil Alexander, RV6A, #20701 ... still cockpit stuff
>> Hi guys!
>> I was just curious why the alternate engine focus seems to be
>> on Subaru?Is there some advantage over say Ford, Nissan, Toyota?
>> What about Briggs & Stratton?? (just kidding :-)
>>
>> Having test driven a Subaru, I noticed that they were somewhat
>> gutless when asked to put out a lot of power.
>
>Well, for one thing, they are fairly light aluminum block engines,
>horizontally opposed, and as reliable as the sun coming up. It does depend
>on which engine you're talking about. I have a '92 Subaru Loyale (nee GL),
>and while yeah, its 90 HP isn't all that impressive, it hasn't missed a beat.
>The engines have nice features like hydraulic valve lash adjusters, and an
>electronic ignition and fuel system that even compensates for altitude.
>(Very handy when I crossed the rockies). They're pretty small too. Under
>the hood, there's room for the engine, the 4WD transmission, the spare, and a
>small child (Not a DOT approved seating arrangement, however). The heads are
>maybe a foot deep.
>
>On the other hand, get a ride with someone who has the somewhat rare SVX
>model, and ask them to floor it on a clear road. You will not believe that
>you are in a luxury sedan with an automatic transmission. A rocet sled on
>rails perhaps....
>
>--
>"Wait a minute, you expect us innocent children to climb up dangerous
> scaffolding and paint naked people all over a church? We'll do it!!"
> -- Yakko Warner, Animaniacs
>"Yeah, I've got ADD, you wanna make something of.... oooh, cool. Look!"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JamesCone(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Lycoming Engine Coding |
Lycoming has a complete list and will provide it for free. They are very
very helpful to homebuilders and will send you more information about their
engines than you care to know. Just ask and stand back from the pile of info
they will send. It will take days to read. Jim Cone, editor, Van's Air
Force, Tri-State Wing.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JamesCone(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Trial Internet |
I got it. If you have any other confessions or tips, please send them to me
and I will put them in the newsletter. Jim Cone, editor, Van's Air Force,
Tri-State Wing.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JamesCone(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Questions re: painting |
You can buy Marhyde Self Etching Primer by the case at a 20% discount from
SMG Sales, (800) 729-1243. This is the best way to go, no clean up, no
waste, good priming, color is grey and can be used for a finish color of the
interior cockpit, saving some weight. Jim Cone, editor, Van's Air Force, Tir
State Wing.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JamesCone(at)aol.com |
I have just finished wiring and plumbing my RV-6A instrument panel and radio
rack for a full IFR panel, which I did before riveting the top forward skin
on. I drilled it per the plans but decided that it would be lots easier to
wire if I could just reach in and work rather than having to lay on my back
and drip solder in my face while working up there. It worked like a charm
and by taking out the instruments and working around the wires, my wife, AKA
the best little bucker in the world, will be able to help me rivet the top
skin on. My question is whether I need to install a windshield defogger.
Bill Benedict suggested that rather than installing a duct to the
glaresheild, just installing a radio shack 12 volt fan to duct air to the
windshield. I bought two fans, but before I install them, I would appreciate
any input from those flying RV's as to the need for the defogger. Jim Cone,
working on the finishing kit.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John P. Foy" <102370.3241(at)compuserve.com> |
I have an RV-6A with 136 hours on it. So far I have not needed a defogger
although I was wondering about installing one while in the building process. I
sat out a rainstorm in the 6A a couple of weeks ago with three other RV-4s and
they were rubbing off their canopys to get rid of the fog on the inside of the
canopy. Mine did not fog up. I have the sliding canopy. The water did manage to
dribble down the canopy latch handle and now I realize that I should have put
Pro Seal on the aft canopy fairing where it meets the plexiglass. I don't know
what you can do about the canopy latch handle, though. We sat there with the
engines shut down. In the air, no water leakage is noticable in the rain.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | s.hendry(at)ix.netcom.com (steve hendry ) |
Please add my frind bill kaiser to the rv-list. I was recving his mail
for him on my mail address, but a lot of truble for me to copy to disk
and send to him. Bill kaiser has a read only address and cannot send
e_mail on internet. Please add; bill.kaiser.kandy.com to the
rv-list. He is making for (12 months) a rv-6a. Stab is complete one
wing, started on the other one and has just recived the fuse (3 hours
to count the parts. thanks
________________________________________________________________________________
*** KAIWAN Internet Access ***
| From: | rob.acker(at)greatesc.com (Rob Acker) |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 (total fiction) |
Hello Everyone,
So is this RV-8 for real or what? When I first saw a post describing
it as an enlarged RV-4 I was in heaven, because the one thing that has
kept me from ordering a -4 was that it's a bit cramped for my 6'4"+
frame.
Then all this talk of converted autoengines and "stealth" RV's and other
crock...anybody got the REAL scoop? If it's for real I'll have one of
the first orders in!
Thanks,
Rob.
* SLMR 2.1a * Why do headwinds only happen on the way home?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RUSS_NICHOLS_at_SAC__DATA__PROCESSING(at)fire.ca.gov |
>From RUSS_NICHOLS_at_SAC__DATA__PROCESSING Fri Jul 14 09:44:35 0700 1995 remote
from fire.ca.gov
From: RUSS_NICHOLS_at_SAC__DATA__PROCESSING(at)fire.ca.gov (RUSS NICHOLS)
Subject: RV Archive Viewer
Ross Mickey said...
I downloaded the archived RV-List and am trying to read it in Windows
Word Perfect. This is very,very slow. Any help on how I could get to
stuff in that document faster????
......................
I apologize if I missed the answers to that question, but I didn't
notice any.
I use a product from WordPerfect called Program Editor. It used to
come with their Library package. I don't know if it is still
available or not. I got it 5 or 6 years ago. While it still takes
awhile to load the 8 Mb file, it is faster than anything else I've
tried.
I, too, have been contemplating better ways to do it. Does anyone out
there have any other suggestions?
BTW.... the archive is a gold mine if you make the time to look
through it. And... it's makes me feel better to know that some of
the folks on this list that I consider experts had the same question
when they started...
,---.____________________ ___ ============ .
/' \ | \ I_ O _I_,==.:
| Russ Nichols >----|===`------'I `---' I | |:
| russ_nichols(at)fire.ca.gov / _ \ I I | |:'
| RV-6 empenage getin' goin'/ ( `-,-----============:__;:
| ,---.___________________/ (_ O __) \_ :
|/' (_______) (_)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Wentz <Don_Wentz(at)ccm2.hf.intel.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Canopy Defogger |
Jim, I have a tip-up RV-6. I have experienced full canopy fog over when
taxiing to run-up area several times: usually on cool winter mornings, also
last Sunday when leaving Arlington after packing rainsoaked gear (and
myself) into it. In every case, I wipe the canopy so I can see and turn on
the heat. By the time I reach the end of the runway on takeoff all is and
stays clear.
I had intended to put a single small fan in the glareshield skin between the
glass and the bar that you rivet the glareshield skin to, but so far my
experience has shown that I don't need it.
If you fly a lot in an area where fogging is a problem, you may be more
inclined to do so, and drawing warm air from over the radios/instruments
should be sufficient, with the cabin heat on.
The Duck, N790DW, 180HP RV-6, #20369
I have just finished wiring and plumbing my RV-6A instrument panel and radio
rack for a full IFR panel, which I did before riveting the top forward skin
on. I drilled it per the plans but decided that it would be lots easier to
wire if I could just reach in and work rather than having to lay on my back
and drip solder in my face while working up there. It worked like a charm
and by taking out the instruments and working around the wires, my wife, AKA
the best little bucker in the world, will be able to help me rivet the top
skin on. My question is whether I need to install a windshield defogger.
Bill Benedict suggested that rather than installing a duct to the
glaresheild, just installing a radio shack 12 volt fan to duct air to the
windshield. I bought two fans, but before I install them, I would appreciate
any input from those flying RV's as to the need for the defogger. Jim Cone,
working on the finishing kit.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
Be patient. Yes there's something in Van's Skunkworks being prepared
for flight. But nothing's "for real" until it's flown and proven.
That's one thing I really respect about Van as opposed to other kit
manufacturers, he doesn't make claims or announcements about something
he's doing until he's had a chance to validate it. If we get all
excited about some great new thing that's supposed to be this and that,
and it doesn't turn out to live up to what we rumor it to be, then
everyone will be dissapointed.
I'm sure they'll have the "official" word on it soon.
Randall Henderson
RV-6
> Hello Everyone,
>
> So is this RV-8 for real or what? When I first saw a post describing
> it as an enlarged RV-4 I was in heaven, because the one thing that has
> kept me from ordering a -4 was that it's a bit cramped for my 6'4"+
> frame.
>
> Then all this talk of converted autoengines and "stealth" RV's and other
> crock...anybody got the REAL scoop? If it's for real I'll have one of
> the first orders in!
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Rob.
>
> * SLMR 2.1a * Why do headwinds only happen on the way home?
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | navaid devices installation |
I borrowed a Navaid Devices servo unit (thanks Jerry) so I could
fabricate and install mounting brackets in the wing before I closed it
up. But apparently it is also possible to install it in the fuselage. I
talked to Doug at Navaid Devices, Inc. and he couldn't tell me much
about whether one location would be better than another, since he
doesn't have an RV and all he knows is heresay. He did say that the
installation in the fuse, since it connects to the stick, may result in
some servo induced pitch variance, depending on how you installed the
thing. I am tending towards putting it in the wing partly for this
reason and partly because I'd just like to prepare for it now. Is there
anyone with experience with this either way? How easy would it be to
get to for maintenance in the fuselage as opposed to the wing access
hole?
Randall Henderson
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rbibb(at)fore.com (Richard Bibb) |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 (total fiction) |
>Hello Everyone,
>
>So is this RV-8 for real or what? When I first saw a post describing
>it as an enlarged RV-4 I was in heaven, because the one thing that has
>kept me from ordering a -4 was that it's a bit cramped for my 6'4"+
>frame.
>
I'm 6'5" and, while a little cramped, I fit in mine (at least on the ground
- may swell with pride in the air).
RB
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6junkie(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Fwd: Canopy Defogger |
---------------------
Subj: Re: Canopy Defogger
Date: 95-07-14 15:16:23 EDT
From: RV6junkie
I'm at the same point of construction. I used the small round plastic vents
that are used in the soffits of a home. Can get them at any building supply
store. Nice thing about them is that they can be turned. I'm hoping that
there will be enough airflow from bottom to top that I will not have to use a
fan...just have to see.
BTW, I too was concerened about getting under that skin for service and put
all of my instruments on a sub-pannel. It's not a perfect system but I can
get to everything without laying on my back.
When it came time to rivet that top skin in place I had to many
wires/brackets/whatevers to remove so I used solid rivets where I could and
used MK-319-BS everywhere else. Turn out to be a 66/33 ratio. I'll fill the
pop rivets and no one will be the wiser.
Good luck, hope you're flying soon. Just finished my canopy and I'm into
final assembly so I hope to be in the air by the end of the summer.
Gary Corde
RV-6 N211GC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dick Steffens" <res6246(at)des.dukepower.com> |
I have a question for Don Wentz and others who might know...
I'm building the wings of my -6 and have installed one of Don's double
lights in the left wing in the last bay. Will this be enough light or should
I put another light in the right wing? How about if I use 100 watt bulbs in
the double light I have already installed? I'm not used to alot of light,
but I don't fly my Citabria much at night. Sometimes even then I forget to
turn on the landing light and wonder why it's a little dark. I haven't had a
chance be around RV's much, let alone fly one at night, so some opinions
from the lucky ones out there that actually get to fly RV's would be helpful
before I finish pounding together the wings.
Dick Steffens
Lake Norman, NC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6junkie(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: navaid devices installation |
I put the servo in the fuselage of my RV-6 but have yet to fly it. However,
an RV-4 that I have been flying has it in the fuselage and I never noticed
any pitch problems. Works real good. Seems to me it would be easier to get
to the thing in the fuselage...but everybody has their own thoughts on this I
guess.
________________________________________________________________________________
*** KAIWAN Internet Access ***
| From: | rob.acker(at)greatesc.com (Rob Acker) |
ED>Subject: Re: RV-8
ED>Be patient. Yes there's something in Van's Skunkworks being prepared
ED>for flight. But nothing's "for real" until it's flown and proven.
ED>That's one thing I really respect about Van as opposed to other kit
ED>manufacturers, he doesn't make claims or announcements about something
ED>he's doing until he's had a chance to validate it. If we get all
ED>excited about some great new thing that's supposed to be this and that,
ED>and it doesn't turn out to live up to what we rumor it to be, then
ED>everyone will be dissapointed.
I absolutely agree with your perspective, both about Van's policies and
about "false hopes".
My situation was I was down to two choices on what to build...and was
just about to send a $20K check to the "other" choice (somewhat
dissappointedly because the -4 is my dream plane but it's just too
cramped) when I read about the RV-8.
For now I have decided to rip up the check and see if and when a -8
happens. Other people have mentioned the Harmon alternative, but
me being Mr. Cautious would rather stick with Van's factory stuff.
Thanks for the information.
Rob.
* SLMR 2.1a * Life is uncertain ... so eat dessert *first*.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 (total fiction) |
I stopped in at Van's on Feb 31, 1995 and saw the plans (in detail) and the
almost complete RV-8. It is almost a direct copy of the RV-7, a twin fuselage
RV-3!! We all remembet the P-82, don't we? Welllll, the RV-8 is a 4 pax
version of same, with two IO-340 Continentals on the noses. Ought to go like
stink!!!
"a smilin' rivet is a happy rivet"
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: navaid devices installation |
>
> I put the servo in the fuselage of my RV-6 but have yet to fly it. However,
> an RV-4 that I have been flying has it in the fuselage and I never noticed
> any pitch problems. Works real good. Seems to me it would be easier to get
> to the thing in the fuselage...but everybody has their own thoughts on this I
> guess.
I'm sure it would be easier to get to with the floorboards out, but is that
easy or a pain to do? I haven't done the fuselage so I don't know.
Randall
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kksys!showpg!jpl (Joe Larson) |
| Subject: | Priming and other items |
Well, I finally caught up on the email. I haven't read my mail in two weeks.
My job has kept me out of the office.
Anyways, last weekend, I set up my little tent arrangement in the yard and
primed all the remaining bits to be primed for the empennage. The tent
arrangement worked very well, once I realized that my air compressor wouldn't
run off a 100-foot extension cord. I have *got* to wire that 60-amp circuit
out to my garage I've been thinking about.
Anyways, thanks to everyone who commented regarding priming. I talked to
the local EAA Tech Advisor, and he also says "don't sweat the priming
business". In other words, he said I didn't need to do touch-ups after
drilling.
Well, all my friends are asking for airplane status reports. Some of them
have asked me what I'm going to put in for avionics. I tell them I'll get
it flying on a minimal-VFR panel and add toys as I can afford to do so.
Question: Terra has been advertising as small & lightweight. Does anyone
have experience with their equipment? I'd like to know how it compares,
weight, size, and price-wise with Bendix-King or Narco.
After all, I need to start putting together my next 10 years' worth of
Christmas/Birthday lists.
-Joe
--
Joe Larson jpl(at)showpg.mn.org 612-595-9690(w)
Showpage Software, Inc.
435 Ford Rd, Suite 315
St. Louis Park, Mn 55426 Future RV-6A pilot.
________________________________________________________________________________
*** KAIWAN Internet Access ***
| From: | rob.acker(at)greatesc.com (Rob Acker) |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 (total fiction) |
RA>>it as an enlarged RV-4 I was in heaven, because the one thing that
has kept me from ordering a -4 was that it's a bit cramped for my 6'4"+
frame.
FO>I'm 6'5" and, while a little cramped, I fit in mine (at least on the ground
FO>- may swell with pride in the air).
That's my problem, I swell so much just SITTING on the ground thinking I
could have an RV-4 that I become much larger .
Seriously, I sat in one and it reminded me of those 2+hr x/c's in the
150...back screaming in agony and legs cramped up with nowhere to
stretch. Cramped I can handle, as long as I can S-T-R-E-T-C-H once in a
while for relief.
The machine I sat in did NOT have the mod to move the seat back 2".
This may or may not do the trick...do you have this mod (it may be just
what I need)?
Thanks, Rob.
* SLMR 2.1a * Sex!Lies!Drugs!Power!Corruption! God, I love Congress!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jsleigh(at)pcnet.com (James Sleigh) |
| Subject: | Main Spar, Make or Buy? |
I've heard rumors that the main spar is a rear bear to build.
A -4 builder at work strongly reccomends the phlogistron spar.
For those of you that have built your own spar, is it really
such a daunting task?
Thanks.
James Sleigh
-4 Tail Skin Drilling
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Solana <102131.2407(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | "Newcomers" RV-6A project description |
Hi everyone! I just joined the list a few weeks ago and am enjoying going
through the 5 years of old messages. Its great having all these people to
exchange thoughts with.
Im building a -6A, the empannage is finished, and Im in the middle of
the wings, building them simultaneously.
For the wings, I used Phlogiston spars and pre-built tanks from London.
The leading edges are complete, with tanks mounted and fuel senders in and
wired. Also wired for wingtip strobes and position lights and one wing tip
antenna. I put a double landing light from Duckworks in the left wing, and a
heated pitot tube next to the bellcrank access plate, using a doubler for the
mounting. All the main skins are ready for riveting. Im currently building
the ailerons, having finished assembling the bottoms of the flaps.
Also, the fuselage is sitting in a crate, inventoried and with some parts
primed!
What have I messed up so far? rebuilt the HS rear spar because of a nice
big hole I put in the wrong place at the very end, mounting of left elevator
which was low by 1/16, trim tab which I deformed by trying to make the edge
bends a little cleaner after it was finished. I guess its all OK if your
particular and corrent your mistakes, and Im doing better with the wings.
What am I planning to put in? IFR panel, pretty hi-tech. Its hard to
say exactly what, because the longer I wait, the more the stuff can do!
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Terra radios (was priming...) |
Joe Larson Asked:
> [ much deleted...]
> Question: Terra has been advertising as small & lightweight. Does anyone
> have experience with their equipment? I'd like to know how it compares,
> weight, size, and price-wise with Bendix-King or Narco.
>
Just a quick comment.
The Terra products are (I think) good value. It is true that most
units are smaller and lighter than comparable King or Narco. The gas
plasma displays are nice. The cost is slightly more than the bottom
line units from Bendix/King.
A local Citabria owner indicated that his TX760D VHF had a very
sensitive receiver. He had some mic gain/modulation problems on
installation but a qualified technician fixed it up in a few minutes.
The unit has a built in VOX ICS, but the installation requires a
couple of external relays to seperate the pilot/copilot mics on
transmit (otherwise thay end up in parallel, and you pax can be heard
on the air when you transmit). Transmitter is 6 or 7 watts as I
recall.
They also build a small vor/ils/gs receiver -- one of the smallest
with an internal gs rcvr. I'm personally not fussy about the Terra vor
indicator, but the manual says that it will work with 'other'
converter/indicators although some adjustments may be required.
The Terra transponder is the same small size as the VHF. It is TSO'd
-- and as of a month or so ago was the only TSO'd product in the line.
(TSO is becomming an issue in Canada lately with the regulatory
authorities)
I have considered Terra for my RV -- especially re weight and size.
Canada is about to embark on new regualtions that allow IFR in amateur
built A/C, so the lack of TSO may be an issue.
You can put a Terra VHF and Transponder in about the same panel space
(and volume) as a King or Narco transponder. For a tight panel this is good.
Terra also has package deals (i.e. Sport pack has VHF, ATC, Encoder
for a slightly discounted price -- if memory serves me right.)
Their GPS is a re-packaged Trimble with a metal front panel and a
longer warranty than trimble.
--
Bill Baines
Surrey, British Columbia, Canada
bill(at)sfu.ca, (604) 535-2714 or 2709, VE7FML
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BPattonsoa(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Fwd: Main Spar, Make or Buy? |
---------------------
Subj: Re: Main Spar, Make or Buy?
Date: 95-07-15 15:45:12 EDT
From: BPattonsoa
I made mine. The 3/16 rivets are simple. As a matter of fact, my spar
rivets are 100% consistent, none were done twice, they are the best on the
airplane.
HOW?
I used an Arbor Press from Harbor freight, modified like the Bengallis
aritcle a couple of years ago. (I think Tony is the best pure
Engineer/artist around). The secret to the use of this outfit is to get
everything very stable. To get the rivets to set right, you need to hit the
arbor with a minimum of a 5 lb short handle sledge. Three HARD hits and a
rivet is done. You can use 5 light taps and manage to harden the rivet, but
not drive it.
The hard hits need to be from a position of comfort, not a unbalanced
position. The press is bolted to a large board for stability and the spar
is supported firmly. You can't dink around with large rivets.
I complete all the rivets in less than 10 manhours (1/8 included, also with
the arbor press) Based on my construction log and the price of a prebuild -6
spar, I earned $9.60/hour for all the work to complete the spar. This is the
best money you can make doing a homebuilt.
Bruce Patton
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ReileyRV6(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | New kits and builders |
Just a comment. If things keep going in the direction they seem there will be
no more true kit plane builders. Van's is building, prepunching and
manufacturing way to many parts for the builders. Many other companies
started this and it spoils the true distinct abilities and talents of many
builders. The fun cames with the experience in building the bird not just
assembly of a lot of parts. Where is the real challenge?
DR
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Wentz <Don_Wentz(at)ccm2.hf.intel.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Landing Lights |
Dick, I use my lights 95% of the time for 'be seen' visibility. Always on hazy
days, in airport traffic patterns, etc. Using them for night landings is icing
on the cake.
You can use the double installation for 1 taxi and 1 landing. If you add a
light to the right outboard wing, it will improve the be-seen usage mode.
I don't feel a taxi light is a 'must', the landing lights are sufficient once on
the ground, however there has been mention of a tower telling someone to turn
off the landing light as it was spraying light all over the place. Not a common
problem I'm sure.
The Duck, N790DW, 180HP RV-6, #20369
I have a question for Don Wentz and others who might know...
I'm building the wings of my -6 and have installed one of Don's double
lights in the left wing in the last bay. Will this be enough light or should
I put another light in the right wing? How about if I use 100 watt bulbs in
the double light I have already installed? I'm not used to alot of light,
but I don't fly my Citabria much at night. Sometimes even then I forget to
turn on the landing light and wonder why it's a little dark. I haven't had a
chance be around RV's much, let alone fly one at night, so some opinions
from the lucky ones out there that actually get to fly RV's would be helpful
before I finish pounding together the wings.
Dick Steffens
Lake Norman, NC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JamesCone(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Lycoming Engine Coding |
>Jim -- did you happen to have a number for Lycoming...the info pack sounds
>very
>interesting...thanx very much for your help! Regards...
>
>Terry in Calgary
>"Waiting for Preview Plans"
>
>
>
Lycoming
652 Oliver Street
Williamsport, PA 17701
(717) 323-6181
FAX (717) 327-7100
Jim Cone
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gatto314(at)aol.com |
I would like to install a heated pitot tube and am debating between the
Cessna type and the Piper blade type. I've seen both of these types used on
RV-6's.
Does anyone have an opinion on which type is preferable - any known problems
with airspeed indication or such?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David A. Barnhart" <barnhart(at)crl.com> |
| Subject: | Pro-sealing tank ribs |
Well, so far this pro-sealing isn't so bad. I've done the
reinforcing angles, the drain flange, and the filler neck.
Now for the hard part, and a question.
Frank's construction manual describes doing the inner ribs
first, and doing the end ribs last. Is thers some reason why
I would not want to pro-seal and rivet the end ribs first?
Because you can squeeze the rivets in the end ribs, they might
be easier. Then with them installed, the tank would tend
to hold its shape while you wrestled with the inner ribs.
ANy thoughts?
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
rv-6 sn 23744
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | shendry(at)mail.calypso.com (steve hendry) |
Please place bill.kaiser(at)kandy.com on the rv-list for e-mail. He is
building an rv-6a, has been for 13 months. The stab is complete, right wing
is complete and he is starting on the other side. He just recevied the
fuselage kit. Bill has read only e-mail, and I'm tired of putting the
rv-mail on disk for him. If there is something I need to do, or if I'm doing
something wrong please let me know.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DerFlieger(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: navaid devices installation |
I installed it into my RV6 about 2 years ago and am very pleased with it. I
put it below the right seat cover panel just as Doug shows on the photos he
gives you. I have used it on many trips (Oshkosh etc) and it takes a big
load off the navigation task when tracking my Loran 618TCA.
Notes:
1. Mine had a bad gyro which took me a long time to figure out, then Doug
replaced it.
2. I never experienced any of the "pitch problems" , however when I put the
linkage to the stick into place, I did as he suggests. "move the ailerons
through the complete range under all conditions of elevator travel to insure
there is minimal interaction.
3. Its very easy to install under the seat, and maintenance is easy too. I
did put an access plate into the seat panel though, which is easier to remove
than the whole seat panel. I think I would not worry about installing it
until you have a number of hours on the airplane and have all the other bugs
worked out.
4. I had poor tracking on the loran signal until I found out from Apollo
that you need to put the loran into "approach mode" to get a signal large
enough to drive the autopilot.
Jim Stugart
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KWilli8027(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Fwd: Main Spar, Make or Buy? |
bruce-you'll get no argument from me or anyone else regarding TONY being the
best of the best. however i stole the idea from bob seibert who did his with
avery's dimple/set c-shaped tool. i just happened to have a cheap arbor press
laying around and decided that it would be better to abuse it being the
cheaper of the two tools. actual time to set the rivets in one wing
unassisted. 1hr 55min's. it then went to tony b's for his rv-3 then seth
hancocks rv-6 then mark fredricks harmon rocket(s) where it finally died. i'm
not sure if it did one or both his projects. it sounds as if you understood
how it works but did you mark the rivet sizes on the spindle so you know
exactly where to stop with each rivet ? i don't believe tony remembered that
in his article. btw/ i don't think i have ever known a finer or funnier
person in my life. i highly recomend you take in one of tony's seminars @
oshkosh or the kerrville fly-in this year. kent williams
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Solana <102131.2407(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | "Newcomers" RV-6A project description |
Terry,
Here's the address and phone:
London and Associates
7232 cedar Creek Road
Scappoose, Oregon 97056
(503) 543-3986
$450 per tank, and they will build it from your parts which they will
receive from Van when you order your wing. They can do one with a flop tube for
aerobatics if you want, and they set them up for the typical Stewart-Warner
sending units.
Also ,they will make the skins 1/4 inch oversize in chord to allow you some
wiggle room for fitting it on your spar.
I was pretty happy with them. Both passed my balloon leak test. It seems
that one has a slight twist in it ( the inboard leading edge is 1/4 inch off
from the outboard leading edge now that they are mounted on the wing), but Van's
says this is something not to be concerned about at this point, just wait 'til
I
fly it since there will be other minor "defects" which will all add up to the
final performance characteristics. Also, in mounting them on the spar, I had a
problem with some of the rivets on the rear of the tank interfering with the
spar web to which the tank is screwed, so I had to file some of the web. I
heard that this happens sometimes to builders, so it is not unique - - any one
have any comments on that?
Don London was great though. When I first received the tanks, I was
concerned about some of the rivets not being squeezed down enough. Va's said
they do a quality job, so i should talk to them. When I did, they were not
hesitant to have the tanks returned for a check-up and they took care of
everything. Don said that these were done while he was away and he did not get
to check them before they went out.
Anyway, it all came out fine, if not perfect, and I did not have to build
and seal the tanks myself. I wonder if they are discontinuing the slosh
compound now, since Van is no longer recomending it's use?
I hope this helps.
Rick
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David A. Barnhart" <barnhart(at)crl.com> |
On Sat, 15 Jul 1995 Gatto314(at)aol.com wrote:
> I would like to install a heated pitot tube and am debating between the
> Cessna type and the Piper blade type. I've seen both of these types used on
> RV-6's.
I'm going to install the Cessna type (AN5812). Quite a few builders in
this area have installed th Piper blade style, and of the ones that have
performed serious testing, ALL report that their installation is not
accurate at low speeds. The cause could be due to placement. Everyone
has them mounted very close to the plans-specified location, while
most Pipers have the pitot tube located much farther aft on the wing.
I have chosen to use the Cessna style (though the pitot tubes used by
Cessna were aluminum I think, and the AN5812 tube is steel.) I plan
to mount it so that it's opening is very close to the locatoin of the
stock pitot tube.
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
rv-6 sn 23744
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert Busick <rbusick(at)nmsu.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: New kits and builders |
To get the real challenge do a plans only aircraft. I seem to have all
the challenge I can handle with what Van's is currently selling.
Bob Busick
RV-6
On Sat, 15 Jul 1995 aol.com!ReileyRV6(at)matronics.com wrote:
> Just a comment. If things keep going in the direction they seem there will be
> no more true kit plane builders. Van's is building, prepunching and
> manufacturing way to many parts for the builders. Many other companies
> started this and it spoils the true distinct abilities and talents of many
> builders. The fun cames with the experience in building the bird not just
> assembly of a lot of parts. Where is the real challenge?
> DR
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert Busick <rbusick(at)nmsu.edu> |
| Subject: | 320 HP Mazada Rotary Engine |
I noticed at the Arlington flyin that one exibitor had a 320 HP Mazada
Rotary engine on an RV-6. The engine had a turbo. Looked real neat and
made me want to get one. But I'm not sure I would put it in an RV-6.
That is a lot of horsepower! Exibitor told me that it would be ready by
Oskosh, I would be interested in any info on the results of this
experiment from those of you who will be at Oskosh.
I did go out to see Mr Atkins and his Rv-6 with the engine at the
Pierce Co Airport. He was doing
all of the final preps to the RV-6. Atkins is reporting a 2000 TBO, with
a $2500 overhaul cost. You can get the basic 200hp or get the turbo 320
hp. Neat thing about the turbo is 100% power at altitude. Current costs
are $11000-16000 for Firewall forward, to include engine mount. Customer
will have to do minor mods to cowl.
Bob Busick
Rv-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BPattonsoa(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Main Spar, Make or Buy? |
> rv-list(at)matronics.com
>
>Some minor details I might have left out on the Arbor Press. I did several
trial rivets in test pieces to determine what it took to get the right amount
of set. It turned out that for me, 6" 4" and 220 lbs, three hard swings and
a 5 lb short handled sledge gave a perfect set. You press down with the
arbor handle to keep it from jumping off the rivet, and the movement of the
handle was a very good indicator of how much set you got. Four hard shots
actually didn't give much more set, two was not enough. On the shorter
rivets out to the tip, I probably lightened up some, as you know, after
driving about 30 rivets of any type, instinct is as good a the best measuring
tool.
I still have my press, and any RVers in Central California who want to borrow
it, give me a line. I am not near the Bakersfield factory, but in San Luis
Obispo.
Bruce Patton
________________________________________________________________________________
by ono.lincoln.ac.nz (PMDF V4.3-13 #7492)
| From: | Stephen Bell <steve(at)discus.lincoln.ac.nz> |
rv-list(at)matronics.com
On Fri, 14 Jul 1995 RUSS_NICHOLS wrote:
> Ross Mickey said...
> I downloaded the archived RV-List and am trying to read it in Windows
> Word Perfect. This is very,very slow. Any help on how I could get to
> stuff in that document faster????
> ......................
>
> I apologize if I missed the answers to that question, but I didn't
> notice any.
>
..,snip....
> I, too, have been contemplating better ways to do it. Does anyone out
> there have any other suggestions?
>
> BTW.... the archive is a gold mine if you make the time to look
> through it. And... it's makes me feel better to know that some of
> the folks on this list that I consider experts had the same question
> when they started...
I've been using an archive folder in my mailreader, this has some
basic sorting features, (it's possibly to get a degree of "threading"),
this is handy as it puts all articles on say "electric elevator trim"
in the same place.
When this isn't enough I use pattern searching & text viewing tools
(grep & more or less... on my unix workstation)
[ possibly a little scary for the uninitiated but very handy
once you get the hang of them, there are DOS versions of similar
tools somewhere I'm sure. ]
Something I have been considering for myself is to set up a simple
database which can be loaded with mail files from the list.
It should be relatively straight forward to read in the archive
using the std mail headers to form index keys (subject, date/time, etc..)
This could be used for other RV related info, I had in mind postscript
drawings of modifications & plans updates among other things..
Steve
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Stephen Bell |
Lincoln University, \--------------------(*)--------------------/
Canterbury,
New Zealand. NIMBUS II - Driver XX
RV 6 - Growing in the garage.
E-Mail: S.Bell(at)ono.lincoln.ac.nz work
steve(at)discus.lincoln.ac.nz play
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rbibb(at)fore.com (Richard Bibb) |
OK - what is the corect procedure to time a Slick Mag on an O-320?
Specifically, how do you check the internal timing and point gap and also
how do you time it once you put in on the engine?
On my mag (don't have exact model number handy) there are "L" and "R"
alignment holes where you stick the pin in and "L" and "R" label on the
small internal gears. What aligns with what?
Thanks for any info and if anyone knows where I can get some documentation
on these mags please let me know.
RB
________________________________________________________________________________
by ono.lincoln.ac.nz (PMDF V4.3-13 #7492)
| From: | Stephen Bell <steve(at)discus.lincoln.ac.nz> |
| Subject: | FJK: notes, RV construction manual |
Hi Frank,
I'm back underway on my project after moving house & setting up
a new workshop (lots more=A0space, yay!)=20
Finally finishing up the elevators.=20
I really liked the tip in your manual about making the elev skin
cutouts on the top surface just wide enough to clear the hinge
bearing.=20
When fitting the counterweight skins I tried something which
I think has added a nice touch to the finish of the
counterweight assembly, so I figured I'd pass it on.
I made a simple joggle in the end of the elevator spar flange
to accomodate the thickness of the c/weight skin
(I used a hand seamer), the position of the cw/skin ends on the
ribs coincides with flute indentations.
This gives a smooth even surface to the elevator skin in that area. =
=20
Steve
---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
---
-----
Stephen Bell | =20
Lincoln University, \--------------------(*)--------------------/
Canterbury,
New Zealand. NIMBUS II - Driver XX
RV 6 - Growing in the garage.
E-Mail: S.Bell(at)ono.lincoln.ac.nz work
steve(at)discus.lincoln.ac.nz play
/
________________________________________________________________________________
*** KAIWAN Internet Access ***
| From: | rob.acker(at)greatesc.com (Rob Acker) |
CC>Rob, because of your situation, I feel compelled to share some 'inside info'
CC>with you:
Thanks for both your insight on the "inside" project and the Harmon. It
helps make the wait for "if and when" easier .
CC>I also personally DON'T agree with those that say the RV-8 is Van's answer t
CC>the Rocket. He will adamantly oppose any larger motors, etc. I think it is
CC>s
CC>effort to provide an RV for you taller and/or very heavy pilots. In additio
CC>he thinks the RV-4 cowl is draggy and wants to try this other style.
After a spam can an RV-4 on an 0-200 would be exciting! I don't want
more HP, etc. Just something I fit in that has the RV-4s
looks/capabilities.
CC>All of that said, I IMPLORE you to NOT share this mail or any part of it wit
Share what?
CC>Fair enough? Hope this helps,
Absolutely and it does.
Rob.
* SLMR 2.1a * Unable to locate Coffee -- Operator Halted!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | s.hendry(at)ix.netcom.com (steve hendry ) |
Please subscribe bill.kaiser(at)kandy.com on the rv-list for e-mail.
He is building an rv-6a, has been for 13 months. The stab is complete,
right wing side complete started on left wing and just recived the
fuselage last week. Bill has read only e-mail, and I'm tired of putting
the rv-mail on disk for him. If there is something I need to do, or if
I'm doing somthing wrong please let me know.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David A. Barnhart" <barnhart(at)crl.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Mag timing... |
Richard:
The March 1992 issue of Light Plane Maintenance is a whole issue
dedicated to mags. There are two articles, one on setting the
internal timing, and a second on setting the external timing.
They still have that issue available for $7. Contact them
at lpmeditor(at)aol.com
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
rv-6 sn 23744
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave Hyde <nauga(at)windvane.umd.edu> |
| Subject: | Duckworks landing lights |
Primarily to Don Wentz...
I got my Duckworks landing light on Saturday, and spend some time fiddlin' with
it. The instructions say that the outermost bay is (probably) the best place
to put it, (possibly) for structural reasons. I notice, however, that even the
Duck has his mounted inboard. Has someone looked at the structural
impact (poor choice of words, I guess), or was it just decided that it was
probably no factor? Sure doesn't look like a problem, and I see more
inboard than outboard these days. Just want all the info I can get before
I hack up my leading edge.
Dave Hyde
nauga(at)windvane.umd.edu
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JIM SCHMIDT <JIM.SCHMIDT(at)mail.mei.com> |
| Subject: | Pro-sealing tank ribs -Reply |
The tip rib is okay to put on but I install
the root rib last. You need to thread the
vent line in which could not be done with
the rib in place.
>>> David A. Barnhart
07/15/95 09:12pm >>>
Well, so far this pro-sealing isn't so bad.
I've done the reinforcing angles, the
drain flange, and the filler neck.
Now for the hard part, and a question.
Frank's construction manual describes doing
the inner ribs first, and doing the end
ribs last. Is thers some reason why
I would not want to pro-seal and rivet the
end ribs first?
Because you can squeeze the rivets in the
end ribs, they might be easier. Then with
them installed, the tank would tend to hold
its shape while you wrestled with the inner
ribs.
ANy thoughts?
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart rv-6 sn 23744
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | leo(at)icn.su.OZ.AU (Leo Davies) |
Dear All,
I am getting ready to bite the bullet and order a large expensive Lycoming
from Van's. I thought I would get an appropriate exhaust system shipped with
it. I noticed in the comments on the Hovan home page that one exhaust system
had suffered a number of failures at very low hours. I wondered if anyone
had any positive suggestions about exhaust choices for 180hp Lycs (no need
to bad mouth anyone).
I'm particularly interested in anyone with a good number of hours on a
system without problems.
Cheers,
Leo Davies
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Remi D. Khu" <rkhu(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 320 HP Mazada Rotary Engine |
On Sun, 16 Jul 1995, Robert Busick wrote:
[edited...]
> I did go out to see Mr Atkins and his Rv-6 with the engine at the
> Pierce Co Airport. He was doing
> all of the final preps to the RV-6. Atkins is reporting a 2000 TBO, with
> a $2500 overhaul cost. You can get the basic 200hp or get the turbo 320
> hp. Neat thing about the turbo is 100% power at altitude. Current costs
> are $11000-16000 for Firewall forward, to include engine mount. Customer
> will have to do minor mods to cowl.
Perhaps I missed the beginning of this thread, could someone kindly point
me to the message number, repost or email the info on this rotary setup
by Mr. Atkins.
It might be easier (I think) to refer me to the archives... I am
currently working my way through them at a leisurely pace. Anyone with a
script yet to sort them according to subject headings? I'm working on a
Perl script with that in mind as a learning project.. so maybe we can
collaborate..
Remi Khu
RV-4 (#3751)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Ruble <cruble(at)cisco.com> |
>
> I would like to install a heated pitot tube and am debating between the
> Cessna type and the Piper blade type. I've seen both of these types used on
> RV-6's.
>
> Does anyone have an opinion on which type is preferable - any known problems
> with airspeed indication or such?
>
>
>
Use the AN-5812-XX pitot tube. This is the "L" shaped unit you see on
most Corp. type aircraft They are available from almost any air parts
supply. I have a Dwg. of a mount if you would like a copy.
As far as buying a used Piper type, you'll be lucky to find one that works.
The wires tend to come out of the unit and they can not be soldered back in.
The new price is pretty shocking.
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dierks(at)austin.ibm.com |
| Subject: | Main Spar, Make or Buy? (fwd) |
Some of the stories about building a RV-x spar may be do to the fact
that the early spars were TOTALLY homebuilt. Van found a number of
the homemade spars had the bolt holes in the center section wallowed out
and was very concerned about the quality and airworthyness of the spars.
I don't recall the exact year (it is documented in the RV newsletter)
but Van decided to have Phologistene(?sp) do the first N steps of the
spar constuction including alligning and drilling all the holes.
This was included in all the wing kits after that date (1988 or so).
This now makes it much easier to build the main spar.
You still have to deal with the large rivets but several have documented
successful methods to do this riveting.
The other factor to consider is if you want your spar anodized or not.
The factory spar is all anodized (nice gold color) and it should not corrode.
Some don't like the anodizing as it hardens the surface of the metal and
can make it more prone to cracking. This is also documented in Van's news
letters and on this net a few months back. Van determined the RV to have
a 50 yr life even when anodized and subjected to aerobatics and something
like 100 hr a yr.
If you build your own spars, you will probably just etch, alodine, and epoxy
prime them. That can be just as effective and not have the surface hardness
problem that anodizing has.
The other factor is resale price. I went with Factory spar (back in 1987)
as I thought it would add at least 1,000 to the resale value of the plane.
This is a hard item to inspect and I would expect any buyer to pay more
for a factory spar as you can never tell what sins a homebuilder may have
hidden inside that wing.
Herman
> From root Sat Jul 15 11:24:49 1995
> Errors-To: bounces(at)matronics.com
> Precedence: bulk
> Date: Sat, 15 Jul 95 09:24:11 EDT
> Message-Id: <9507151324.AA22835(at)pcnet1.pcnet.com>
> X-Sender: jsleigh(at)mail.pcnet.com
> X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4
> Mime-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> From: pcnet.com!jsleigh(at)matronics.com (James Sleigh)
> Subject: Main Spar, Make or Buy?
>
>
> I've heard rumors that the main spar is a rear bear to build.
> A -4 builder at work strongly reccomends the phlogistron spar.
>
> For those of you that have built your own spar, is it really
> such a daunting task?
>
> Thanks.
>
> James Sleigh
> -4 Tail Skin Drilling
>
>
--
--------------------------------------------------------
*NOTICE for internet mail*: Any ideas or thoughts expressed here are my
own and are independent of my employer.
Herman Dierks, Dept. E54S, AWSD Austin, Texas
AIX Network Performance Measurement/Analysis
phone: TL 678-2831 outside: (512) 838-2831
ZIP: 9632 fax: 512-838-1801
mail: dierks(at)austin.ibm.com VM: DIERKS at AUSVM6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | steve_kimura(at)om.cv.hp.com |
| Subject: | First Rivet! (chatter) |
Item Subject: Text_1
I'm so excited, I just had to share. I have a serial number and I've driven
my first rivet! Ignoring all the recommendations on the list, I used a
Sears claw hammer and wood bucking bar. Unfortunately, it was just the
rivet for the preview plans binder that came apart during shipping.
I've been evesdropping on here for over a year now, and I've finally lost
it. In the last few weeks I've ordered the preview plans, attended my first
builder's group and EAA meetings, and listened to Jon Johansen speak. Also
got my first RV ride (w/acro!). Woa. That sure cleared up any
uncertainties.
First glance at the plans left me overwhelmed. After a night reading
through the whole thing, I wish I already had the tail kit so I could start
building! Thanks, everyone, for getting me this far. And stand back for
some silly questions for the next 5 years or so.
Steve "can't wait to call myself a builder" Kimura
Corvallis, OR
6A plans #24376
skimura!cv.hp.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: Main Spar, Make or Buy? |
>
> I've heard rumors that the main spar is a rear bear to build.
> A -4 builder at work strongly reccomends the phlogistron spar.
>
> For those of you that have built your own spar, is it really
> such a daunting task?
No it is not. It doesn't even take as long as you might think.
Did your -4 builder build his? I doubt it or he'd know better.
The Phlogiston alternative is fine too, if the time vs. money
equation works out that way for you.
Randall Henderson
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Curt Reimer <Curt_Reimer(at)NtwkServ.MTS.MB.CA> |
| Subject: | Re: Main Spar, Make or Buy? |
On Sat, 15 Jul 1995, James Sleigh wrote:
>
> I've heard rumors that the main spar is a rear bear to build.
> A -4 builder at work strongly reccomends the phlogistron spar.
>
> For those of you that have built your own spar, is it really
> such a daunting task?
It isn't at all difficult. Tapering the flanges takes a while, depending
on what tools you have available. I used a bandsaw, vixen file and
scotchbrite wheel. It took about 10 hours for tapering. It would have
been nice to have a table saw for the cutting and a horizontal mill for
the smoothing.
Grinding & sanding out all the scratches took the most time, but I was
very meticulous and I now know it was done right. This took about 30
hours using a dremel with a small scotchbrite wheel, scotchbrite pads,
sandpaper and a palm sander.
I alodyned my flange strips, using 2 tanks built out of plastic rain
gutter. This had to be done indoors as it was wintertime. It was a pain.
I wouldn't bother with this part if I did it again. Took about 8 hours.
Cutting the lightening holes in the spar webs, cleaning them up, along
with the other little bits and pieces, spreader bars, etc, probably took
6 hours.
I primed everything with epoxy primer. Took 2 hours.
Riveting was pretty easy using the Avery tool, but requires care as you
only get one chance to do it right. (removing spar rivets is nearly
impossible without damage). Riveting took maybe 4 hours in total. I also
got the impression in speaking to Van's that a couple of substandard
rivets aren't necessarily a reason to scrap the spar, depending on how
bad and where they are.
That adds up to 60 hours, for me. I think if I were to check my
construction log it was actually sixty-something hours in total. I'd do
it again, unless I won the lottery, in which case I'd probably buy a
F4U Corsair instead :)
YMMV.
Curt Reimer
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: Pro-sealing tank ribs -Reply |
> From: JIM SCHMIDT
>
> The tip rib is okay to put on but I install
> the root rib last. You need to thread the
> vent line in which could not be done with
> the rib in place.
I didn't mess with the vent line until all the ribs were in. Wasn't
much trouble.
I also did ALL the ribs in one session. It took a while but I had a
helper. I prosealed and clecoed them all in, then went down the line,
inside to outside with the gun/ bucking bar. Then used the pneumatic
squeezer to squeeze the ones on the end ribs.
Watch out for one "gotcha" -- if you rivet the wing attach angle to the
insboard end rib before riveting the rib to the skin, there will probably
be some interference with the skin-to-rib rivets at the leading edge,
which will require pop-rivets. This is no big deal -- it doesn't have
any effect on sealing since the flange is outside the tank there, and
cosmetically it won't matter either since the wing root fairing will
cover it up. But the holes will need to be larger for the pop-rivets,
so if you have to do this make sure you drill the holes larger BEFORE
you put the pro-seal on.
Randall Henderson
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Australian visitor |
Last Thursday evening was the Portland RVators monthly meeting, and
about 20 of us flew the 40 miles from Portland down to Independence, OR
in various RVs, spam cans, and one rag-wing (my Champ). A few hearty
souls even braved the trip in "ground vehicles". It was a joint meeting
with EAA chapter 292, and we had originally planned to mostly just
tire-kick with the EAA chapter and see what they were about down there.
Which we did, but as it turned out we also had a surprise visitor --
Jon Johansen, the Australian RV-4 builder/pilot who just a week ago
became the first person to fly from Hawaii to the mainland in an RV.
Jon is on his way from Australia to Oshkosh, and plans to keep on going
and circumnavigate the earth. Wow.
John gave a stirring talk, starting with his humble beginnings as a
person who as a child was told that he'd never amount to much, and
believed it. He described how he got his pilot's license while making
$25 per week as a carpenter, partly because he was "too dumb to know
that I couldn't do it". He told of how he struggled through nursing
school, then travelled to Thailand to do humanitarian work with
refugees, and returned to Australia and worked 80+ hour work weeks so
he could afford to build his airplane. He described the modifications
he'd had to make to his plane to increase the fuel capacity and
efficency, and wrapped up by describing his trip to New Zealand to
prove to himself that he could make the big one, and finally the trip
up through Palau, Christmas Island, Hawaii, and across "the pond" to
Santa-Barbara. He said his motive for making the trip was simply that
he wanted to go to Oshkosh, and wanted to do it in his own plane. All
of it told in an exceedingly quiet, humble manner. I know I wasn't the
only one who had tears in his eyes.
Most of the rest of the meeting consisted of people crowding around
Jon's plane and badgering him with questions about it. The entire back
seat, up almost to the top of the canopy is taken up with a fuel tank,
and the fiberglass wingtips have been converted to fuel tanks as well.
Jon is marketing the conversion to RV-ers, and it seems like a relatively
simple installation.
Jon couldn't afford to do this on his own, and has managed to get wide
sponsorship, including fuel from BP, a GPS unit from Garmin, and a lot
of equipment from other manufacturers, but he told us he could still
use some help. We passed the hat and between the Portland RVators and
the Chapter 292 members we came up with $310 to contribute to "the
cause".
Due to the fly-out nature of the meeting, there wasn't as big a turnout
as usual, but we did get more of the "Flying" RVators than usual this
time. My trip back in the Champ, with Dan Benua riding shotgun, was
both beautiful and exciting, plugging along at 85 with the sun setting
over the coast range, and Don Wentz and Steve Harris buzzing around us
like fireflies in their RV-6es.
Randall Henderson
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank K Justice <Frank_K_Justice(at)ccm.ssd.intel.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Main Spar, Make or Buy? |
If you have 50 spare hours and want to save $800 make your own spar.
Preferred tool for tapering the flange strips is a table saw with a
thin, small (7 1/2" or so) carbide tooth blade with many teeth. Makes a
smooth cut requiring very little clean up. Preferred tool for finishing
is a table-top belt-disk sander. Smooths very fast. The Avery arbor tool
works great for setting rivets. If you are still nervous see the section
on spar building in the WWW server.
FKJ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gil(at)rassp.hac.com (Gil Alexander) |
| Subject: | Re[3]: Main Spar, Make or Buy? |
** stuff cut ***
>
>I alodyned my flange strips, using 2 tanks built out of plastic rain
>gutter. This had to be done indoors as it was wintertime. It was a pain.
>I wouldn't bother with this part if I did it again. Took about 8 hours.
>
Regardless of your thoughts on acid etching and alodyning in general, It
would seem to me that this is the one assembly on the whole RV that SHOULD
be alodyned. As another poster said, once it's built and installed, it's
in for the life of the plane, and is difficult to completely inspect. I
guess I took 3 to 4 hours for this step, and considered it time well spent.
>
>I primed everything with epoxy primer. Took 2 hours.
Use the best primer you can get, and really prepare the surface well. This
surface preparation is one of the major benefits of the acid etch and
alodyne steps. Alodyned surfaces must be kept clean and grease-free, and
priming should be performed within 24 hours.
>
** stuff cut ***
>
>Curt Reimer
..... Gil Alexander, RV6A, #20701
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gil(at)rassp.hac.com (Gil Alexander) |
| Subject: | Re[2]: Main Spar, Make or Buy? |
>If you have 50 spare hours and want to save $800 make your own spar.
>Preferred tool for tapering the flange strips is a table saw with a
>thin, small (7 1/2" or so) carbide tooth blade with many teeth. Makes a
>smooth cut requiring very little clean up. Preferred tool for finishing
>is a table-top belt-disk sander. Smooths very fast. The Avery arbor tool
>works great for setting rivets. If you are still nervous see the section
>on spar building in the WWW server.
>
>FKJ
I found that coarse (brown color) ScotchBrite mounted on a Makita
1/4 sheet orbital sander did a great job of surface finishing. I got this
idea from a visit to the Phlogiston shop, and this gives the random swirl
marks you can see in their gold anodized layer.
I also found a vixen file did a good job cleaning up the band-saw
cut marks if you don't have the table-top belt-disk sander mentioned above.
.. Gil Alexander, RV6A, #20701 .... awaiting a visit from Monte King
from this list on Wed.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WinterByte(at)aol.com |
I am starting on my elevator and its time to make a decision-
Electric or Manual trim control ?
I have never flown with electic trim, but it seems as though it may
be a nice feature. Any one out there with experiences building or
flying a RV with electric trim vs manual trim, please comment.
John Winter
RV 6A
Boise, Idaho
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | J.Ken_Hitchmough(at)mail.magic.ca (J.Ken Hitchmough) |
| Subject: | Re: exhaust systems |
For service and fast response, plus what looks like a good quality system, the
Vetterman x-over has my vote. Can't tell what it's like in the air though 'cos
I just fitted it.(went on soooo easy). Another few months before it'll fly.
(I also got a nice pen as a bonus)
Ken '6a
--
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Magic Online Services Toronto Inc. (416) 591-6490
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John.Morrissey(at)its.csiro.au (John Morrissey) |
| Subject: | Re: Trim options |
Hi John,
I vote for electric trim, its lighter than the manual trim and I felt
it was easier to install. Having flown in RV's with both types I
preferred the electric trim because you could adjust it without moving
your hand from the stick. The trim indicator is another good feature.
Here in Australia we must provide a positive indication of trim
position to the pilot. This is rather cumbersome with the manual
version. Some people engrave the manual trim handle with the relevant
trim positions (Full forward, Neutral & full back)
Hope this helps!!
John Morrissey
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Trim options
Date: 17/7/95 9:07 PM
I am starting on my elevator and its time to make a decision-
Electric or Manual trim control ?
I have never flown with electic trim, but it seems as though it may
be a nice feature. Any one out there with experiences building or
flying a RV with electric trim vs manual trim, please comment.
John Winter
RV 6A
Boise, Idaho
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JerryFlyRV(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Pro-sealing tank ribs -VENT |
After putting fuel in my RV-6 for over 6 years I would like to make a
suggestion to those of you building or about to build your gas tanks.
As you know there are holes cut in the ribs to allow for filling the tanks
with fuel, and to keep the fuel from sloshing around in the tanks. There is
also a small hole in the top of the ribs for air to escape while filling the
tanks this is in addition to the aluminum vent line. I would suggest makeing
these hole a little larger due to the fact that the last 3-4 gals take a
while to fill because the fuel is gurgleing in while the air is escaping
through the fuel because fuel goes in faster than the air comes out.
This is just a suggestion and maybe the drawings have changed to correct this
in the last eight years since I built my tanks.
Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Terence C. Gannon" <74267.3003(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Heading to Van's! |
Folks -- I've decided to do the sensible thing and get myself trained up by
attending one of Van's Building Clinics, either in September and October. For
those who have attended (or live in the vicinity), can anyone recommend a
bed-and-breakfast (or similar) that is cycling distance from Van's? I'll be
flying down from Calgary, and believe it or not, it'll be cheaper to ship my
bike than rent a car for a week!
Obviously, this is only peripherally related to actually BUILDING and RV-6, but
I really do appreciate your help, and look forward to perhaps meeting a few of
you later in the year! Thanx again...
Terry in Calgary
"Waiting on Preview Plans"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John P. Foy" <102370.3241(at)compuserve.com> |
I have an RV-6A with electric trim on all three axis. The aileron and elevator
take some time to install but are well worth the effort. If you put the aileron
trim on the left aileron you only have to look out the canopy to see the
setting. You need very little movement of the tab to accomplish trim. The
elevator is the only trim that could need the indicator as you can't see the
setting from the cockpit. The rudder probably could use an indicator but it
moves fast and is easily overridden by the push on the rudder pedals until you
can trim it out. You will find yourself trimming the rudder at every speed
change. The elevator uses LARGE trim changes with full flaps for landing. Use
the long reach servo for that one. The others only need the short range servos.
I have 137 hours on my RV-6A and it is nice to be able to trim hands off at all
speeds! I also have electric flaps and would never trade for manual.
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JerryFlyRV(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: exhaust systems |
>For service and fast response, plus what looks like a good quality system,
the
>Vetterman x-over has my vote. Can't tell what it's like in the air though
'cos
>I just fitted it.(went on soooo easy). Another few months before it'll fly.
>(I also got a nice pen as a bonus)
Vetterman has my vote his is the third exhaust on my airplane in 700hrs. and
I have not had a bit of trouble with it in 200hrs., this was unheard of with
the two previous systems that I had on my RV-6.
I will have to get after Larry though I didn't get the nice bonus pen :-)
Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "MIKE PILLA" <mpilla(at)ccsmtplink.espinc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Trim options |
I am rethinking that issue with my RV-4, right now. I built the
stab/elevator figuring on using manual trim. Claudio Tonini (RV-4
"Purple Passion") told me that installing the manual trim cable was a
royal "PITA" since the cable is "just the right length - no margin for
errors" and to bite the bullet and install the electric trim by
modifying my elevator ... I checked with Ken at Van's and he said
that he isn't aware of anyone having any real problem installing the
elevator trim cable (My fuse is in the jig and I figured on installing
rudder cables, trim cable, ..., before riveting the skins on.)
Personally, I prefer simple systems; I am installing electric flaps,
but only because of rear passenger foot room considerations. So, I
strongly suspect that I will be installing the manual trim cable this
week.
Mike Pilla
RV-4 #2866
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Trim options
Date: 7/17/95 10:37 PM
I am starting on my elevator and its time to make a decision-
Electric or Manual trim control ?
I have never flown with electic trim, but it seems as though it may
be a nice feature. Any one out there with experiences building or
flying a RV with electric trim vs manual trim, please comment.
John Winter
RV 6A
Boise, Idaho
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Earl W Brabandt <Earl_W_Brabandt(at)ccm.jf.intel.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Trim options and fuel tank testing |
Text item:
I've flown RVs with both trim setups and I think it's a matter of personal
preference. As with most things, after sweating over the installation --
whatever it may be, you'll probably like whichever you install.
Personally I like the manual. I prefer a system where displacement (or an
angular twist of the trim knob) is proportional to trim change. With the
electric system, time (the length of time that you hold the switch closed) is
proportional to trim change. I think the RV elevator trim knob is a really neat
design; it's simple and effective. But then I don't like electric control
systems in light aircraft in general -- I'm even installing mechanical flaps!
I finally got around to (had the guts to) test my fuel tanks after building them
one year ago. I prosealed the fuel sending units because I didn't use captive
nuts or nutplates and figured I'd need to remove the access plate to service
them anyway. Then I used Fuel Lube on a buna-N access plate gasket and all
mounting screws. I stretched a piece of ruptured balloon across the vent ports
and secured it with a zip tie. I placed a thick plastic baggie under the fuel
caps. I placed a balloon across the fuel port and secured with a couple of zip
ties. Then I huffed and puffed and blew air (yup, with my mouth) into the fuel
drain flange. After the balloon inflated, I quickly plugged the fuel drain
flange with a pipe thread plug. All connections were sparingly smeared with
fuel lube first.
One tank deflated over maybe 15 hours or so. Hmmmm, was it a leak or just the
balloon? It turned out to be a very slow leak under the inboard leading edge
mounting angle (which I found with soapy water). What luck, it was easily
accessible from the access hole. After smearing more proseal in there, the
balloons stayed up for days. Yippee, no slosh!
Calin (formerly Earl) Brabandt, RV-6 N66VR in progress
Text item: External Message Header
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Subject: Trim options
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 1995 21:07:24 -0400
I-4.1)
From: aol.com!WinterByte(at)matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com (Ross Mickey ) |
| Subject: | 6-A Firewall Layout Question |
I am laying out the firewall on my 6-A and am finding Franks
instructions very helpful. One Question. Does anyone know why Frank
specifies the top piece of angle to be 36 3/4 inches long? The
distance between the two side pieces is 37 1/2 inches (39 - 3/4 - 3/4).
This leaves a 3/8 inch gap betwen each side and the top piece. I don't
see this gap on plans page 25 Detail "D". Cutting it like Frank
recommends does create a piece which fits between the two engine mount
holes which are 37 1/4 inches apart but the plans show drilling a hole
through the angle.
Ross Mickey
Eugene, Or
6-A #23203
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | James Mike Wilson <James_Mike_Wilson(at)ccm2.hf.intel.com> |
| Subject: | Re[4]: Main Spar, Make or Buy? |
Text item:
A quick note on metal prep. I use small 1Qt plastic spray bottles for my etch
and alodyne solutions. I wet the parts with water then spray them with which
ever solution I am using at that time. I also work the solution into the metal
with a scotch bright pad. After three or four minutes I rinse with water
thoroughly. Works great, doesn't take much solution and doesn't require a
special area for tanks and such. I have used this process through the whole
project and I'm still on the original Qts of solution I purchased from Spruce.
just thought someone might be interested,
jmw -4,fuse
** stuff cut ***
>
>I alodyned my flange strips, using 2 tanks built out of plastic rain
>gutter. This had to be done indoors as it was wintertime. It was a pain.
>I wouldn't bother with this part if I did it again. Took about 8 hours.
>
Regardless of your thoughts on acid etching and alodyning in general, It
would seem to me that this is the one assembly on the whole RV that SHOULD
be alodyned. As another poster said, once it's built and installed, it's
in for the life of the plane, and is difficult to completely inspect. I
guess I took 3 to 4 hours for this step, and considered it time well spent.
>
>I primed everything with epoxy primer. Took 2 hours.
Use the best primer you can get, and really prepare the surface well. This
surface preparation is one of the major benefits of the acid etch and
alodyne steps. Alodyned surfaces must be kept clean and grease-free, and
priming should be performed within 24 hours.
>
** stuff cut ***
>
>Curt Reimer
..... Gil Alexander, RV6A, #20701
Text item: External Message Header
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and may be ignored unless there are problems.
***IF THERE ARE PROBLEMS SAVE THESE HEADERS***.
Subject: Re[3]: Main Spar, Make or Buy?
From: rassp.hac.com!gil(at)matronics.com (Gil Alexander)
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 1995 17:17:11 -0800
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Doug Weiler <Doug.Weiler(at)swamp.mn.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Main Spar, Make or Buy? |
JS> I've heard rumors that the main spar is a rear bear to build.
JS> A -4 builder at work strongly reccomends the phlogistron spar.
JS>
JS> For those of you that have built your own spar, is it really
JS> such a daunting task?
JS> Thanks.
JS> James Sleigh
Jim:
I can certainly vouch for the fact that doing your own wing spars are will
within the capability of the average builder. Nothing against the Phlogistron
spar but you can definitely save several hundred dollars (more $ to buy tools
with!)
So far, three people in the MN wing have completed their own spars in the last
6 months. We average about 40 hours total time in fabricating them. We used a
homemade rivet squeezer I constructed using a 6-ton auto jack. The degree to
which the spars are already prefabracated makes the job pretty straightforward.
Doug
... Doug Weiler, Pres, MN Wing, Hudson, WI, doug.weiler(at)swamp.mn.org
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David.Rodenhiser(at)Corp.Sun.COM (David Rodenhiser) |
| Subject: | Re: 320 HP Mazada Rotary Engine |
Remi,
I've also been working on a perl script to do the sorting but it is
not finished yet. However, Sun's Mailtool does a pretty good job of
doing the sort. If you don't have a Sun, I can make a sorted version for
you. I'll need an updated copy of the archives though (mine is 3-4 months
old).
Dave
----- Begin Included Message -----
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Remi D. Khu" <earthlink.net!rkhu(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 320 HP Mazada Rotary Engine |
On Sun, 16 Jul 1995, Robert Busick wrote:
[edited...]
> I did go out to see Mr Atkins and his Rv-6 with the engine at the
> Pierce Co Airport. He was doing
> all of the final preps to the RV-6. Atkins is reporting a 2000 TBO, with
> a $2500 overhaul cost. You can get the basic 200hp or get the turbo 320
> hp. Neat thing about the turbo is 100% power at altitude. Current costs
> are $11000-16000 for Firewall forward, to include engine mount. Customer
> will have to do minor mods to cowl.
Perhaps I missed the beginning of this thread, could someone kindly point
me to the message number, repost or email the info on this rotary setup
by Mr. Atkins.
It might be easier (I think) to refer me to the archives... I am
currently working my way through them at a leisurely pace. Anyone with a
script yet to sort them according to subject headings? I'm working on a
Perl script with that in mind as a learning project.. so maybe we can
collaborate..
Remi Khu
RV-4 (#3751)
----- End Included Message -----
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Chandler <mauser(at)Claris.COM> |
Someone made a good point about electrical trim control systems. Setting is
done by time instead of position.
Has anyone considered or designed a system whereby the trim position servo
was controlled by a rheostat or slider?
--
"Wait a minute, you expect us innocent children to climb up dangerous
scaffolding and paint naked people all over a church? We'll do it!!"
-- Yakko Warner, Animaniacs
"Yeah, I've got ADD, you wanna make something of.... oooh, cool. Look!"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | James Mike Wilson <James_Mike_Wilson(at)ccm2.hf.intel.com> |
rv-list(at)matronics.com
| Subject: | Re[2]: Main Spar, Make or Buy? |
Text item:
I built mine. It all comes done to time and money.
The only intense part for me was tapering the stiffeners. I did it with my 11
year old son in a friends front yard on a table saw with a taper jig. I used a
carbide blade purchased from Sears specifically for metal (don't have the part
#
handy but cost was $55). The first couple of cuts were a bit tense, but like
anything else, experience develops along with confidence and it goes pretty
fast. I use the blade on my Radial Arm saw now to cut all kinds of aluminum
parts.
Riveting was no big deal. I recommend buying additional rivets at various
lengths. Van's provides only a few sizes and expects you to trim to the needed
lengths which is a pain. I used the Avery tool with a three pound hammer.
Ensure tool and spar are square before striking rivet set.
The only other work required was metal prep. and primer. Just another part of
the project. It took about one month on a part time basis (6 to 8 hrs/week).
I would do it again.
jmw -4,fuse
JS> I've heard rumors that the main spar is a rear bear to build.
JS> A -4 builder at work strongly reccomends the phlogistron spar.
JS>
JS> For those of you that have built your own spar, is it really
JS> such a daunting task?
JS> Thanks.
JS> James Sleigh
Jim:
I can certainly vouch for the fact that doing your own wing spars are will
within the capability of the average builder. Nothing against the Phlogistron
spar but you can definitely save several hundred dollars (more $ to buy tools
with!)
So far, three people in the MN wing have completed their own spars in the last
6 months. We average about 40 hours total time in fabricating them. We used a
homemade rivet squeezer I constructed using a 6-ton auto jack. The degree to
which the spars are already prefabracated makes the job pretty straightforward.
Doug
... Doug Weiler, Pres, MN Wing, Hudson, WI, doug.weiler(at)swamp.mn.org
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Subject: Re: Main Spar, Make or Buy?
Date: Sun, 16 Jul 95 14:23:20 -0500
From: Doug Weiler <swamp.mn.org!Doug.Weiler(at)matronics.com>
.1)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RUSS_NICHOLS_at_SAC__DATA__PROCESSING(at)fire.ca.gov |
>From RUSS_NICHOLS_at_SAC__DATA__PROCESSING Tue Jul 18 16:18:28 0700 1995 remote
from fire.ca.gov
From: RUSS_NICHOLS_at_SAC__DATA__PROCESSING(at)fire.ca.gov (RUSS NICHOLS)
Subject: spin article
Fellow RVers...
I thought some of you may be interested in this. It comes from a post on the
KITFOX mailing list. I found it very interesting and I wonder if this is the
reason spins "are not suggested" in RVs.
Russ Nichols
RV-6 empenage
I am enclosing this article from IAC magazine (Sport Aerobatics) 1/94. I
sent a copy to SkyStar about a year ago with no reply. I think it needs to
be read because of the amount of modifying now being done on the S5 aircraft
with the larger and heavier engines. I do not want to become the bearer of
bad news, but I feel this could be a life or death concern. I have taken
excerpts from the article because of time restraints.The article is titled "
It's Where You Sit..." by Fred G. Delacerda
"The airplane was observed to enter a spin during the half roll at the top of
a Immelman. There was no recovery from the multi turn spin. Accident
investigation and analysis failed to find a problem with the pilot or the
airplane that would prevent spin recovery. The NTSB computer print out of
the accident causal factors read as follows:
Aerobatics<>Performed<>PIC
Stall/Spin<>Inadvertent<>PIC
Emergency Procedure<>Not
Correct<>PIC
The certified aerobatic airplane was a tried and proven airplane. Like most
airplanes the cockpit layout had been designed for the 50th percentile adult.
Therefore, a pilots position in the seat ( also weight and position of engine)
can put the airplane on the front or the aft end of the CG range.
With the 95th percentile pilot the CG is in the extreme aft position and the
airplane is sensitive in the pitch whereas the 5th percentile pilot has a
forward CG position with an airplane very stable in pitch.
Consequently, the pilot wanted to move the CG aft. Adding weight behind the
seat would work but the amount needed significantly added to the weight of
the airplane. So it was decided to add the weight as far aft as possible so
as to have a large moment arm with a small weight. Through trial and error a
weight of 7.5 pounds was attached to the tail post. A check of the weight
and balance found the CG to be within limits. What was not readily apparent
was the alteration of inertia.
All pilots are familiar with moments, but few are knowledgeable about the
moment of inertia. Moment of inertia depends on the shape and distribution
of mass about the axis of rotation. A moment is calculated by multipling the
moment arm times the weight, but for moment of inertia it is moment arm
SQUARED times the weight. A
small weight with a long moment arm signficantly alters the moment of inertia.
Now more aerodynamic force from control deflection is needed to overcome the
increase in moment of inertia. It is possile to have a moment of inertia so
large there is not enough aerodynamic force from the control surface at full
deflection to overcome the inertia. In this particular case the pilot had
stayed within the envelope but a created a significant change in moment of
inertia due to the long moment arm from the CG to the weight on the tailpost.
In the spin, a airplane goes from a transitory to a rotatory motion. During
the transitional stage, the incipient stage, the aerodymanic forces and the
inertia forces are developing. When in the developed stage of the spin these
forces are in equlibrium. During recovery, control changes provided the
aerodymanic forces needed to offset the inertia forces. In this accident the
inertia had been changed to the point that aerodymanic forces from control
imput were not sufficient to overcome inertia. This had not been noted by the
pilot as he had always kept within the incipient phases of the spin where
inertia forces were not fully developed. In this stage, control deflection
produced aerodymanic forces sufficient to stop spin rotation. With an
inadvertent entry into the spin from the Immelman, the pilot allowed the
airplanes to progress to the developed stage of the spin where spin recovery
was not possible.
The human factor chain of events were as follows. The CG was adjusted by
addition of a small weight at the extreme aft end of the airplane that
significantly altered the moment inertia due to th long distance from the CG
to the attachment point. Because of the alteration, recovery from a
developed spin was not possible since there was not a sufficient control
surface for aerodynamic forces to overcome the inertia. An inadvertent spin
was allowed to reach the developed phase. With no recovery possible, there
was a fatal crash.
Training in spin recovery would not have prevented this accident"
I hope everyone understands my concern on this subject. Thanks Tony
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dierks(at)austin.ibm.com |
| Subject: | Re: alodine in spray bottle |
James, are you sure you spray water on the AL before you spray
on the alodine?? The instructions that come with alodine warn about
keeping it dry and not using any water until you rinse it.
The water will neutralize the alodine and it will not oxidize the surface.
I could see spraying it onto a dry surface and then using the scotch brite.
Herman
> From: James Mike Wilson <ccm2.hf.intel.com!James_Mike_Wilson(at)matronics.com>
> Message-Id:
> To: rassp.hac.com!gil(at)matronics.com, rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re[4]: Main Spar, Make or Buy?
>
>
> Text item:
>
> A quick note on metal prep. I use small 1Qt plastic spray bottles for my etch
> and alodyne solutions. I wet the parts with water then spray them with which
> ever solution I am using at that time. I also work the solution into the metal
> with a scotch bright pad. After three or four minutes I rinse with water
> thoroughly. Works great, doesn't take much solution and doesn't require a
> special area for tanks and such. I have used this process through the whole
> project and I'm still on the original Qts of solution I purchased from Spruce.
> just thought someone might be interested,
> jmw -4,fuse
Herman Dierks, Dept. E54S, AWSD Austin, Texas
mail: dierks(at)austin.ibm.com VM: DIERKS at AUSVM6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gatto314(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Piper lift detector |
Has anybody installed a Piper lift detector into their wing leading edge or
know how I would find the location to mount one?
I found a new one in Aircraft Spruce for $1300 but I would prefer to install
a used one because of the price.
Chris Brooks
RV-6, building the wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Terence C. Gannon" <74267.3003(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Alberta Based Builders |
Folks -- I've been on this list now for a couple of weeks, and haven't managed
to spot any Alberta based builders of RVs. Does anybody out there know if there
are any out there on the list? I was wondering if there was a local builders
group, or some such thing.
I did get a list from Van's but the "Last Activity" column is a little
scary...most of them haven't been in contact with Van's for at least a couple of
years, by the looks of it.
Thanx for all of your help!
Regards...
Terry in Calgary
"Waiting on Preview Plans"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank K Justice <Frank_K_Justice(at)ccm.ssd.intel.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 6-A Firewall Layout Question |
Text item:
> Does anyone know why Frank
>specifies the top piece of angle to be 36 3/4 inches long? The
>distance between the two side pieces is 37 1/2 inches (39 - 3/4 - 3/4).
>This leaves a 3/8 inch gap betwen each side and the top piece.
The thing that defines the maximum length of the top angle is not the side
angles, but what Van's calls the side pieces. They are a little over one inch
wide at the point where the top angle goes. The side angles fit on top of them.
Also, your firewall will not be the exact size shown in the plans at some
points.
FKJ
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Subject: 6-A Firewall Layout Question
From: ix.netcom.com!rmickey(at)matronics.com (Ross Mickey )
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 1995 08:54:30 -0700
.1)
I-4.1)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Ruble <cruble(at)cisco.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Piper lift detector |
>
> Has anybody installed a Piper lift detector into their wing leading edge or
> know how I would find the location to mount one?
>
> I found a new one in Aircraft Spruce for $1300 but I would prefer to install
> a used one because of the price.
>
> Chris Brooks
> RV-6, building the wings
>
We just replaced the unit on 85W and the price was shocking for the
rebuilt unit ($663). When I flew Van's red plane, the stick gave a good
rattle before the stall break (if you could call it a break). I dont
plan on installing anything except the stick to indicate an incipient
stall.
__________________________________________________________________________
| |
| ( ) |
| ( ) ( ) Chris Ruble |
| /\ )( ) Gotta love it! cruble(at)cisco.com |
| / \) /\ ) ) / Piper PA-28-180 |
| / \/ \ ) __|__ N8085W |
|/ \ \ _____(o)_____ Shelter 92, SJC |
|________\___\___!_ ! _!___________________________________________________|
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave Hyde <nauga(at)windvane.umd.edu> |
| Subject: | Trim Control (semi-chatter) |
Richard Chandler wrote:
>Someone made a good point about electrical trim control systems. Setting is
>done by time instead of position.
I guess I don't see a problem with this. The only time I can think of that
I want to know the trim tab position is prior to takeoff, where I'm setting
a specific takeoff trim. Other than that, I trim to reduce control forces
once I'm at the conditions I want to stay at. Outside of stability testing,
I don't care where the tab is, as long as it's not maxed out. As for some
perceived requirement to have an indicator, there are certificated airplanes
without them, so why do we have to have them?
Dave Hyde
2-axis electric trim
nauga(at)windvane.umd.edu
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Mumert" <mumertd(at)cadvision.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Re: Alberta Based Builders |
Hi ,
I'm Dave Mumert of Calgary. I just joined this group a few days ago.
I am still in the deciding stage of what plane to build. The more
plane I look at the better the RV series look. I am off to Oshkash
next week to see the new RVs and to talk to more builders. There
were sure lots of nice looking RVs at Arlington. I find I am a
better starter than a finisher and have some concern over the time
commitment required to complete this type of plane.
My address is:
Dave Mumert
33 Connaught Drive N.W.
Calgary, Alberta
T2K-1V9
(403) 284-3492
E-mail mumertd(at)cadvision.com
Terry there is an active RAA (Recreation Aircraft Assoc.) chapter in
Calgary. There are 50-60 active members and a large number of
projects being built. There is at least 2 RVs being built in the
city. Call or e-mail me and I can help you get in touch with the
local RV builders.
I toured the RV factory in Oregon last September. At that time I was
told that a local builder/tutor would be of more benifit than the
Van's training course. They indicated the quality of planes from
those having taken the course was not any better than those who had
not. They did acknowledge it was a great confidence builder, but a
local person with experience can be of much greater help as the
project progresses.
Dave Mumert
mumertd(at)cadvision.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave Hyde <nauga(at)windvane.umd.edu> |
| Subject: | RV-spins (more semi-chatter) |
Russ Nichols wrote:
>I found it very interesting and I wonder if this is the
>reason spins "are not suggested" in RVs.
And enclosed an article...
The article didn't make this clear. Did the NTSB reach the conclusion
that the moments of inertia were changed enough to inhibit spin recovery,
or was that the author's conclusion?
An airplane so close to the edge that 7.5 lb in the tail will make spins
unrecoverable (due to inertial effects, not cg) seems overly sensitive
to me. That's probably about the same increase in moment of inertia
you'd get by changing from a fixed-pitch to constant speed prop on an RV.
(WARNING! THAT'S A WAG! WARNING!) :)
>Training in spin recovery would not have prevented this accident"
1) Is this the author's or the NTSB's conclusion?
2) _Did_ the pilot have 'training in spin recovery'?
But thanks for the article, it was interesting.
Dave Hyde
Proposed Master's Thesis:
'Modelling Spin Characteristics of a General Aviation Airplane (RV-6)'
nauga(at)windvane.umd.edu
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RUSS_NICHOLS_at_SAC__DATA__PROCESSING(at)fire.ca.gov |
>From RUSS_NICHOLS_at_SAC__DATA__PROCESSING Wed Jul 19 08:37:27 0700 1995 remote
from fire.ca.gov
From: RUSS_NICHOLS_at_SAC__DATA__PROCESSING(at)fire.ca.gov (RUSS NICHOLS)
Subject:
Boy, I hope I didn't start another one of those RV "problem" topics.
I posted the note on spins because I thought it was interesting, not
because I think the RVs have a "problem". Of course, since mine is
still in pieces (most of which are still at Van's), I'm not an expert
on RV characteristics, yet.
BTW... at our local RV meeting last night, we got a sneak peek at the
RV-8... it's a flying wing with an R-3350 for power. Seats 4 and
will cruise at 350kts. It's a taildragger and they've been testing
it's short-field capabilities on a Navy carrier. The only problem
noted to date is the infamous "landing" problem....
ugh... i could of had a V-8....
,---.____________________ __ ______ :
/' \ / \ _-\ O \______ :
| Russ Nichols >---/ `---^ `-----' |:>
| russ_nichols(at)fire.ca.gov / |===== _- :
| RV-6 empenage / ( `---,-----==========--' :
| ,---.___________________/ (_ O __) ___/
|/' (_______) <___)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Graves <mgraves(at)ptdcs2.intel.com> |
Hi,
I posted a response but accidently sent it directly to Richard Chandler,so
if this message is duplicate, I apologise in advance.
Richard asked if it were possible to make a electronicly controlled trim system.
It is possible to do. first, a slide pot (resistor) can be encoded by an analog
to digital converter. This data can then be used by a microcontroller to operate
a linear motion device attached to the trim tab. This concept could also be
applied to the flaps. Being digital, the system can have programmed response
characteristics such as motion speed, range of travel, time delay, etc.
It is possible to program the flaps to behave differently on extension/
retraction. have you ever hit the flaps up switch in a cessna on a go-around and
left it on accidently? The sudden loss of lift is not a pleasant sensation.
An electrinic flap could be programmed so the when the control is pushed to FULL
FLAPS UP, the system could raise the flaps in 10 degree increments while waiting
a number of seconds between retraction cycles for example. On flap extension,
it could sense the range of the control by approximate position and deploy
10,20,or30 degrees of flaps.
For the trim tab, the control could be variable from one end to the other,
and because the system is digital, is is a cinch to have some sort of controlposition
indicator.
I realize that this is a extemely high tech solution, but computer parts
are a heck of a lot cheaper than airplane parts, and the technology is readily
available. After all, we are builing *EXPERIMENTAL* aircraft. This could easily
be backed up by manual controls and there is little weight penalty.
Mike Graves
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | James Mike Wilson <James_Mike_Wilson(at)ccm2.hf.intel.com> |
| Subject: | Re[2]: alodine in spray bottle |
Text item:
This is my process. It seems to work great for me. I have experimented
destructively on samples and after priming, the primer is extremely difficult,
if not impossible, to removed without removing metal. It is important to keep
solution wet while it is on the metal. Applying water first helps without
significantly diluting the solution.
For me, even if this seems short of the explicit instructions, this process is
over kill. If I'm doing something wrong, it's too late to change now. I treat
and prime all parts including the skins. If I build again I would probably not
treat or prime Alclad parts except at intersections. Keep in mind, we're not
building Navy Jet Fighters. I know several builders that have primed without
any treatment other than physical SoctchBrite scuffing. I have yet to hear of
any corrosion issues on any RV's. Any horror stories out there are probably
associated with negligence or aircraft neglect. Most of us will keep our
beauties hangered anyway.
Corrosion Treatment Process:
1) Physically prepare the parts to be treated. This would include removing
scratches and any polishing of edges etc. with ScotchBrite if needed.
2) Wipe clean. Use solvent if grease or other foreign material needs removing.
3) Wet with water. This helps the solution evenly distribute over surface
quickly.
4) Spray with Alumiprep and scrub with SoctchBrite. This will scuff the
surface. If you plan to polish anything, you may not want to use ScotchBrite
but just wet with solution.
5) Let dwell for about 3 TO 4 minutes (go by instructions and your own
judgment).
6) Rinse THOROUGHLY.
7) Spray with Alodyne and scrub with DIFFERENT ScotchBrite pad to evenly
distribute solution.
8) Let dwell for about 3 TO 4 minutes (again, go by instructions and your own
judgment).
9) Rinse THOROUGHLY and allow to dry.
10) Prime with what ever you choose. I have used both Courtaulds and PPG wash
primer. Both seem fine. The wash primer is easier, quicker and cheaper.
Hope this helps,
jmw (Mike), -4 skinning the fuse
James, are you sure you spray water on the AL before you spray
on the alodine?? The instructions that come with alodine warn about
keeping it dry and not using any water until you rinse it.
The water will neutralize the alodine and it will not oxidize the surface.
I could see spraying it onto a dry surface and then using the scotch brite.
Herman
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Date: Tue, 18 Jul 1995 18:41:00 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Re: alodine in spray bottle
netmail1.austin.ibm.com (8.6.11/8.6.11) with SMTP id SAA55702 for | Date: | Jul 19, 1995 |
| From: | "A. Reichert" <reichera(at)clark.net> |
A flying wing taildragger? Must have two tailwheels, one on each wingtip!
On Wed, 19 Jul 1995 fire.ca.gov!RUSS_NICHOLS_at_SAC__DATA__PROCESSING(at)matronics.com
wrote:
>
> BTW... at our local RV meeting last night, we got a sneak peek at the
> RV-8... it's a flying wing with an R-3350 for power. Seats 4 and
> will cruise at 350kts. It's a taildragger and they've been testing
> it's short-field capabilities on a Navy carrier. The only problem
> noted to date is the infamous "landing" problem....
| Alan Reichert - Wannabe RV-6 Builder |
| Preview plans received! #24179 |
| Study...study...look for tools...study.... |
|---------------------------------------------|
| http://www.clark.net/pub/reichera/home.html |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Curt Reimer <Curt_Reimer(at)NtwkServ.MTS.MB.CA> |
| Subject: | Re: Re[3]: Main Spar, Make or Buy? |
On Mon, 17 Jul 1995, Gil Alexander wrote:
> Regardless of your thoughts on acid etching and alodyning in general, It
> would seem to me that this is the one assembly on the whole RV that SHOULD
> be alodyned. As another poster said, once it's built and installed, it's
> in for the life of the plane, and is difficult to completely inspect. I
> guess I took 3 to 4 hours for this step, and considered it time well spent.
>
> Use the best primer you can get, and really prepare the surface well. This
> surface preparation is one of the major benefits of the acid etch and
> alodyne steps. Alodyned surfaces must be kept clean and grease-free, and
> priming should be performed within 24 hours.
Those are good points Gil. You're right - it was time well spent. I
withdraw my previous advice. I would do it again and I will advise
others to do so.
I must be getting lazy (and I still have 3/4 of a plane left to go! Shame
on me :)
Curt Reimer
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank K Justice <Frank_K_Justice(at)ccm.ssd.intel.com> |
rv-list(at)matronics.com
| Subject: | Re: Russ's RV-8 (chatter) |
Text item:
> BTW... at our local RV meeting last night, we got a sneak peek at the
> RV-8... it's a flying wing with an R-3350 for power. Seats 4 and
> will cruise at 350kts. It's a taildragger and they've been testing
> it's short-field capabilities on a Navy carrier. The only problem
> noted to date is the infamous "landing" problem....
Now Dave Hyde will have to start all over again. He always wnated something he
could put a tail hook on...
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Date: Wed, 19 Jul 95 05:40 PDT
.1)
From: fire.ca.gov!RUSS_NICHOLS_at_SAC__DATA__PROCESSING(at)matronics.com
I-4.1)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "MIKE PILLA" <mpilla(at)ccsmtplink.espinc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Exp Builders vs Course (was Alberta Based Builders) |
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re: Alberta Based Builders
Date: 7/19/95 3:11 PM
Hi ,
I'm Dave Mumert of Calgary. -- snip -- I find I am a better
starter than a finisher and have some concern over the time
commitment required to complete this type of plane.
Dave, I fall into that same category - better starter than finisher,
but the parts keep building up and eventually, it takes over as if it
has a life of its own. :-) The trick, for me, is to look at the near
term; i.e., what little piece I am fabricating, right now, and not
look at what is left. If possible, find a friend who would like to
trade some building/encouragement for flying time in your completed
bird. This person can help motivate you during the "lull" periods.
I toured the RV factory in Oregon last September. At that time I was
told that a local builder/tutor would be of more benifit than the
Van's training course. They indicated the quality of planes from
those having taken the course was not any better than those who had
not. They did acknowledge it was a great confidence builder, but a
local person with experience can be of much greater help as the
project progresses.
I can second Van's folks recommending latching on to an experienced
builder. The early stages were made much easier by having an
experienced RV builder only about 15 miles from my house. I did not
take a formal course, but attended a couple of the Osh and S&F
metalworking workshops plus the Frederick, MD RVForum.
The real learning came from working on the pieces and having the local
person help me over the initial hump. True to the spirit of EAA, this
chap was quite tolerant and patient as I struggled to learn how to
read blueprints, ...
I credit Van's folks, again, with being so honest; their remark about
not noticing much difference in quality between those who took a
course and those who did not is very typical of providing solid
information, first, then looking out for business, second.
Mike Pilla
pilla(at)espinc.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Curt Reimer <Curt_Reimer(at)NtwkServ.MTS.MB.CA> |
| Subject: | Re: Trim Control |
On Tue, 18 Jul 1995, Richard Chandler wrote:
> Someone made a good point about electrical trim control systems. Setting is
> done by time instead of position.
>
> Has anyone considered or designed a system whereby the trim position servo
> was controlled by a rheostat or slider?
It certainly could be done, but a knob or slider might be difficult to
build into a control stick, and if you have to mount it on the dash, why
not go with the original mechanical system? The advantage of pushbuttons
is that they are compact, yet precise. I don't think you could get the
required precision using a knob or slider small enough to fit on the top
of a control stick.
Curt Reimer
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: Re[2]: Main Spar, Make or Buy? |
Mike Wilson made some comments that I'd like to add to.
>
> I built mine. It all comes done to time and money.
>
> The only intense part for me was tapering the stiffeners. I did it with my 11
> year old son in a friends front yard on a table saw with a taper jig. I used
a
> carbide blade purchased from Sears specifically for metal (don't have the part
#
> handy but cost was $55). The first couple of cuts were a bit tense, but like
> anything else, experience develops along with confidence and it goes pretty
> fast. I use the blade on my Radial Arm saw now to cut all kinds of aluminum
> parts.
I'm the friend with the table saw. I only wish I'd had that neat blade
of his when I did mine. I used a carbide tipped hollow ground planer
(finish) blade, ($33) which worked ok, but there were still some pretty
deep saw marks that took me a while to smooth out with a belt sander.
If you go this route I highly recommend tracking down one of those
blades that Mike used, which was specifically made for cutting
aluminum. His hardly needed smoothing compared to mine.
> Riveting was no big deal. I recommend buying additional rivets at various
> lengths. Van's provides only a few sizes and expects you to trim to the needed
> lengths which is a pain.
YES in fact, I think it would also be a good idea to get half-size
rivets of all types (-4.5, -5.5, etc.) in 3/32 and 1/8" early on in the
project. You'll save lots of time and bent over rivets trying to put in
ones that are too long, and won't have to mess with a rivet cutter.
And DEFINITELY get some "oops" rivets.
> I used the Avery tool with a three pound hammer.
> Ensure tool and spar are square before striking rivet set.
Yes again. While it might be nice to have one of those arbor presses
others are talking about, if you don't already have access to one I
don't see any reason to go out and buy one. The avery arbor/4lb hammer
method works fine. That's what I used and didn't have any bent over
rivets, and it took me about an hour per spar to set them all. I
screwed blocks of wood to both ends of the spar so that it was
supported perpendicular to the shaft of the arbor, and at a height so
the factory head just rested in the cup of the die.
>
> The only other work required was metal prep. and primer. Just another part of
> the project. It took about one month on a part time basis (6 to 8 hrs/week).
>
> I would do it again.
Me too.
Randall Henderson
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Chandler <mauser(at)Claris.COM> |
> Richard asked if it were possible to make a electronicly controlled
> trim system.
>
> It is possible to do. first, a slide pot (resistor) can be encoded by
> an analog to digital converter. This data can then be used by
> a microcontroller to operate a linear motion device attached to the
> trim tab. This concept could also be applied to the flaps. Being
> digital, the system can have programmed response characteristics such
> as motion speed, range of travel, time delay, etc.
> I realize that this is a extemely high tech solution, but
> computer parts are a heck of a lot cheaper than airplane parts, and the
> technology is readily available. After all, we are builing *EXPERIMENTAL*
> aircraft. This could easily be backed up by manual controls and there
> is little weight penalty.
i definitely think going digital is overkill, aside from introducing problems
with getting the data from the flap to the control (Parallel ribbon cable, or
twisted pair? If it's serial, how are you going to clock it?).
The best way to make such a system (IMHO) is analog. Much the same as the
way the guts of a radio Control Servo work. You use two pots, one for the
controller, and one as a sensor on the flap, to divide a voltage. You use a
pair of opAmps to compare the voltages (With some hysterisis built in) to
activate the relay which powers the motor. As an added bonus, you can attach
a volt meter to the sensor pot to use as a flap position indicator.
Rate of retraction, that's the max speed of the servomotor. For slower, just
more the knob more slowly (Which might be kind of jerky as the motor catches
up with you.) Limits are determined by the limit switches on the servomotor.
Actually, I'm sure that Matt could come up with a variation of this for his
servo speed controller very easily.
A slider for flaps would be cool. I know from the time it takes to put on 40
degrees of flap in the 150 that there were more important things I could be
doing with my hands on approach. Anyone who doesn't want to mess with the
pot could put in radio buttons or a selector switch with pre-set resistors on
'em. ("40 degrees of flap? Punch the rightmost button" )
--
"Wait a minute, you expect us innocent children to climb up dangerous
scaffolding and paint naked people all over a church? We'll do it!!"
-- Yakko Warner, Animaniacs
"Yeah, I've got ADD, you wanna make something of.... oooh, cool. Look!"
________________________________________________________________________________
by ono.lincoln.ac.nz (PMDF V4.3-13 #7492)
| From: | Stephen Bell <steve(at)discus.lincoln.ac.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: Russ's RV-8 (chatter) |
> Now Dave Hyde will have to start all over again. He always wnated something he
> could put a tail hook on...
Tail hook, I never would have thought about that .
I wonder what 600kg of composite weaponry hanging off the tail would do to the
moment of inertia? :) .
Steve,
Obviously the RV-8 is a fully aerobatic glider towplane, water cooled engine...
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Stephen Bell |
Lincoln University, \--------------------(*)--------------------/
Canterbury,
New Zealand. NIMBUS II - Driver XX
RV 6 - Growing in the garage.
E-Mail: S.Bell(at)ono.lincoln.ac.nz work
steve(at)discus.lincoln.ac.nz play
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank K Justice <Frank_K_Justice(at)ccm.ssd.intel.com> |
| Subject: | Re[5]: Main Spar, Make or Buy? |
Don't forget to lay an extra coat of primer on top of the spar after
assembling it; water could leak in at the skin joint and collect on top
of the flange strips.
FKJ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | J.Ken_Hitchmough(at)mail.magic.ca (J.Ken Hitchmough) |
| Subject: | Re: Trim Control |
>Someone made a good point about electrical trim control systems. Setting is
>done by time instead of position.
>Has anyone considered or designed a system whereby the trim position servo
>was controlled by a rheostat or slider?
This would be possible with the newer MAC servos as they have built in 'pots
to generate their position to the indicators. The older servos have simple
switches at the extremes and centre, so it would be extreemely difficult to
get a closed loop control on these.
Interesting point!
Ken
'6a with electric elevator trim (retro fitted)
--
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Magic Online Services Toronto Inc. (416) 591-6490
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle (Matt G. Dralle 1+ 510-447-9886) |
>--------------
>> Richard asked if it were possible to make a electronicly controlled
>> trim system.
>>
>> It is possible to do. first, a slide pot (resistor) can be encoded by
>> an analog to digital converter. This data can then be used by
>> a microcontroller to operate a linear motion device attached to the
>> trim tab. This concept could also be applied to the flaps. Being
>> digital, the system can have programmed response characteristics such
>> as motion speed, range of travel, time delay, etc.
>
>> I realize that this is a extemely high tech solution, but
>> computer parts are a heck of a lot cheaper than airplane parts, and the
>> technology is readily available. After all, we are builing *EXPERIMENTAL*
>> aircraft. This could easily be backed up by manual controls and there
>> is little weight penalty.
>
>i definitely think going digital is overkill, aside from introducing problems
>with getting the data from the flap to the control (Parallel ribbon cable, or
>twisted pair? If it's serial, how are you going to clock it?).
>
>The best way to make such a system (IMHO) is analog. Much the same as the
>way the guts of a radio Control Servo work. You use two pots, one for the
>controller, and one as a sensor on the flap, to divide a voltage. You use a
>pair of opAmps to compare the voltages (With some hysterisis built in) to
>activate the relay which powers the motor. As an added bonus, you can attach
>a volt meter to the sensor pot to use as a flap position indicator.
>
>Rate of retraction, that's the max speed of the servomotor. For slower, just
>more the knob more slowly (Which might be kind of jerky as the motor catches
>up with you.) Limits are determined by the limit switches on the servomotor.
>
>Actually, I'm sure that Matt could come up with a variation of this for his
>servo speed controller very easily.
>
>--------------
I have considered marketing a very similar concept but I have concerns that
have kept me from getting serious about it. Generally, the electonics from
your basic Radio Controlled Model servo would work out quite nicely. As a
matter of fact, the servo used in the autopilot mentioned here recently has
just such a circuit. Here's the problem in my mind. The position of the
servo is controlled by a pulse train. In this pulse, the ratio of "on time"
to "off time" is varied, thereby moving the output arm to a particular
position. Obviously then, position sensing is very simple since there is
a "formual" of sorts for any given position of the servo. This technique
is generally referred to as "Pulse Width Modulation" (PWM). So what's the
problem? Well, it's two fold in my mind. 1) depending on the servo design,
power and a pulse train must be present at all times to maintain solid torque
at a given position. Since feedback is present in the servo, it will work very
hard to stay in the position it is suppose to based on the pulse train. This
need can be designed out with gearing, i.e. when the power/pulse train is
removed from the servo the arm basically won't move, but can be problemmatic
when 2) the pulse train is interrupted for some reason. Depending on the
on/off ratio, any position of the servo can be selected, whether you
wanted it or not! If there's a glich in the PWM generator you could be in
for a big suprise - especially if you're on final and the servo is connected to
the trim tab.
Obviously, there are technical solutions to all of this, but it never seemed
like the complexity and liability was worth the "coolness" factor.
Matt Dralle
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re[6]: Main Spar, Make or Buy? |
Greetings,
While we're on the subject of priming and tapering spar flanges, I would
like to point out that the tapering is OPTIONAL. I didn't taper mine. Yes,
I would like to save any weight that I can, but not at the risk of messing
up pieces that were drilled in assembly by the factory. I didn't feel that
I had the proper tools to safely do the job. In my opinion, 4 lbs ain't much.
As far as prep for priming goes. I have been using acetone and a clean
cloth, then spraying Vari-Prime. The only way to get it off is to scrape it
with a knife. Van's says this is sufficient, and I agree. The only place I
might use acid etch and alodyne is the inside of the tanks. That's only
because mine will be finished for several years before they get to stay
filled with fuel.
Disclaim-to-Flame: These are only my humble opinions, I am not an A&P (I
don't even play one on TV).
Russell Duffy
RV-6 sn-22407 (write it down so you can tell your friends to avoid it)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave Hyde <nauga(at)windvane.umd.edu> |
| Subject: | CV-RV (Chatter like you read about!) |
>> Now Dave Hyde will have to start all over again. He always wnated
>>something he could put a tail hook on...
>Tail hook, I never would have thought about that .
>I wonder what 600kg of composite weaponry hanging off the tail would do to the
>moment of inertia? :) .
Weaponry in the tail? Naah, RHAW gear's going back there, in the rudder canoe.
(Not that I expect anybody behind me or anything :)
I can't put extra fuel tanks in the wingtips because the liquid nitrogen
for the AIM-9's has to go there.
What kind of primer should I use on the radomes?
Dave Hyde "RV ball, 0.3"
plain-vanilla RV-4 in garage "Roger ball!"
nauga(at)windvane.umd.edu
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "MIKE PILLA" <mpilla(at)ccsmtplink.espinc.com> |
| Subject: | Re[7]: priming (was: main spar make or buy) |
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re[6]: Main Spar, Make or Buy?
Date: 7/20/95 2:01 AM
As far as prep for priming goes. I have been using acetone and a clean
cloth, then spraying Vari-Prime. The only way to get it off is to scrape it
with a knife. Van's says this is sufficient, and I agree. The only place I
might use acid etch and alodyne is the inside of the tanks. That's only
because mine will be finished for several years before they get to stay
filled with fuel.
After attending a couple of the Frederick, MD RVForums, I decided on a
similar process as above with only a couple of modifications: I use
MEK instead of Acetone and I wipe off with Naphtha (actually, Coleman
fuel - same stuff, much cheaper). Then I do the Vari-Prime bit with a
Docken spray gun. I've tried the 24 hour masking tape "pull test" and
the stuff stays on.
I think the chap who gave the "corrosion protection" seminar at
Frederick last year suggested MEK over Acetone because of the relative
volatility of the solvents; i.e., the two are nearly the same as far
as cleaning power goes. Not being a Chemical Engineer and only having
had one semester of inorganic and one semester of organic chemistry
(that I promptly forgot), I haven't a clue if this is correct or not.
It just seems to work. Also, I don't have the "volatile" rag disposal
problem, ...
From my notes from that same seminar, "... one must be aware that
Vari-Prime (and Marhyde), while convenient, are not *wear resistant*;
i.e., some protective layer must be applied if the area is subject to
wear". I mention this because a previous message about priming
indicated that Marhyde has that nice gray color and could be used, as
is, for the cockpit interior. I plan on putting a light finish coat
over the Vari-Prime in the cockpit area for wear, not just looks.
Mike Pilla
pilla(at)espinc.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jeayers(at)CCGATE.HAC.COM |
The Long Nose RV-3 is flying off the required time on the new airworthiness
certificate. We plan to have it ready to go to Oshkosh next week.
By the way, in flight, the long nose is not as noticeable as the tall tail.
After the normal assortment of oil leaks (a couple small drips from different
locations) and a minor air ducting modification for the oil cooler, the aircraft
is performing quite well.
Van's NACA scoop mounted on the right side of the fuselage (were the cheek cowl
used to be) provides abundant quantities of air in flight. (I have a side
hinged canopy with a taxi position like the RV-4, so I haven't paid any
attention to the air flow from the vent on the ground.)
The prop we are using has too much blade area for the engine. It is a ground
adjustable prop for up to a 200 Hp engine. It can be set for climb, or for
cruise, but not for both on this 140 Hp engine.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Graves <mgraves(at)ptdcs2.intel.com> |
Hi guys,
Looks like i've stirred up some controversy. As a general rule, I like
to keep things simple and would be most likely to install manual flaps and trim
on my RV unless I could prove that such a digitally controlled system is reliable.
Just for the sake of brainstorming with the "list" I would like to thow out
a few more ideas.
1) There are linear motion devices that extend/retract a plunger and
have a set number of "steps" from one end to the other, with each step
represented by a pulse from a driver device.
2) By installing a position sensing device at the "site", the system
can determine the position of the control surface at any time. The best
method might be an optical pulse counter (x-number of pulses per unit of
movement)
3) Upon power up, the system will center itself by extending maximum and
then returning to center. At this point the system will always know
exac tly where the flight controls are.
4) As for the question about clocking and cabling, The microcontroller
generates its own clock. Remote data transmission has become virtually
bullet-proof over long distances. A few feet to the wings or tail should
not be a problem.
Some closing thoughts:
I didn't intend to start a technical forum, but merely toss out an idea, a
"what if" scenario. Our machines are experimental, so whether we install digitalflaps,
analog flaps, or machanical flaps is purely a personal choice. The main
consideration is always safety. If anybody has built a digital flap,trim system,
it would be interesting to get some feedback on how well it worked.
Just for the record, I prefer the old fashioned analog flight instruments :-)
Mike Graves
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Graves <mgraves(at)ptdcs2.intel.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV flaps (was Re: rv trim) |
This message was originally intended for the "LIST"
Message from Randall Henderson:
>
> Mike Graves said:
> >
> > It is possible to program the flaps to behave differently on
> > extension/retraction. have you ever hit the flaps up switch in a cessna
> > on a go-around and left it on accidently? The sudden loss of lift is
> > not a pleasant sensation. An electrinic flap could be programmed so
> > the when the control is pushed to FULL FLAPS UP, the system could raise
> > the flaps in 10 degree increments while waiting a number of seconds
> > between retraction cycles for example. On flap extension, it could
> > sense the range of the control by approximate position and deploy
> > 10,20,or30 degrees of flaps.
>
> Interesting idea. Although I'd bet it would be more useful on a Cessna
> than an RV. In my limited experience with RVs, the flaps, being
> relatively small in comparison to a Cessna's are handled more like
> Bonanza flaps than Cessna flaps -- They're either up or down, or
> sometimes halfway up for takeoff. _Real_ RV pilots feel free to
> disagree with me, but this is pretty much the way both Andy Hanna
> and Bill Benedict did things when I was flying with them.
>
> Randall Henderson
> RV-6
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | James Caufield <caufield(at)sequent.com> |
| Subject: | Primers and spars |
Gee, am I the only guy who likes to see the manufacturers
logo through a light layer of primer?
The alclad layer was put there for a reason, wasn't it?
Why scrub it off with scothchbrite pads?
But then, maybe I've been corrupted by Art Chard; he
suggested I use Sherwin-Williams Industrial Wash Primer
at the builders class I attended, and who was I to
second-guess a master like him?
| From: | JamesCone(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Duckworks landing lights & canopy fitting |
>Primarily to Don Wentz...
>I got my Duckworks landing light on Saturday, and spend some time fiddlin'
>with
>it. The instructions say that the outermost bay is (probably) the best
place
>to put it, (possibly) for structural reasons. I notice, however, that even
>the
>Duck has his mounted inboard. Has someone looked at the structural
>impact (poor choice of words, I guess), or was it just decided that it was
>probably no factor? Sure doesn't look like a problem, and I see more
>inboard than outboard these days. Just want all the info I can get before
>I hack up my leading edge.
>
>Dave Hyde
>
Consider the fact that it is much easier to work on the lights if you can get
at them from the end of the wing. If you also make your wing tip removable,
which is easy to do, you can service them easier also. If you don't want to
fuss with finding all of the small nutplates and soft rivets, you can buy a
kit to make the tip removable. I found it very handy to be able to get
behind the lense from the end of the wing when I installed mine. I modified
the light support structure so that I can adjust the aim of both lights
independently of each other, both up and down and in and out, just like a car
headlight. I have separate switches for each light, one for taxi and one for
landing. Structural considerations are probably not much of an issue, but
this is only my oppinion and I have not done any analysis to prove it. Also,
if the lense is not quite a good fit, you can work with it a bit by heating
it with a heat lamp or hair drier. I got mine to fit nearly perfectly that
way. I also made a couple of spare lenses from plexiglass by using the
leading edge shape and melting a blank over the shape in a 275 degree oven
for 30 minutes and then letting the lense cool very slowly in the oven over a
period of an hour. If you cool the lense out too quickly, it will try to go
back to its original shape. You can get the lense material from any plastics
dealer such as Tap or Cope. Look in the yellow pages. Also be sure to use
special drill bits to make the holes in the plastic. They are also sold at
the above places. You need these bit anyway to drill the canopy.
As long as I am on the subject of the canopy, I cut the top part of the
canopy handle carry through on the center frame pipe on my slider even with
the pipe. That way I can lay the canopy on the frame to fit it and it will
lay down on it just right. I don't have to guess where to drill the hole for
the handle and then make an oval hole when it is in the wrong place by a bit.
I have a plastic type drill bit that is 1/2", which is just the right size
to drill the hole for the handle from the inside of the canopy using the
support pipe as a drill guide. Since several people have reported getting
water leaking around the canopy handle, I plan to install a rubber washer
around the handle pipe that goes through the canopy plastic. With a slight
compression of the washer, it will be water tight.
Jim Cone, Editor, Van's Air Force, Tri-State Wing Newsletter.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JamesCone(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: exhaust systems |
>Dear All,
>
>I am getting ready to bite the bullet and order a large expensive Lycoming
>from Van's. I thought I would get an appropriate exhaust system shipped with
>it. I noticed in the comments on the Hovan home page that one exhaust system
>had suffered a number of failures at very low hours. I wondered if anyone
>had any positive suggestions about exhaust choices for 180hp Lycs (no need
>to bad mouth anyone).
>I'm particularly interested in anyone with a good number of hours on a
>system without problems.
>Cheers,
>Leo Davies
Larry Vetterman has the best reputation by far. I have one and it looks
beautiful. It has ball joints on the pipes so it is easy to fit. I have
gotten all sorts of good comments for my newsletter about Vetterman's systems
and no bad ones.
Jim Cone, Editor, Van's Air Force, Tri-State Wing Newsletter
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gil(at)rassp.hac.com (Gil Alexander) |
| Subject: | Re[2]: CV-RV (Chatter like you read about!) |
>>> Now Dave Hyde will have to start all over again. He always wnated
>>>something he could put a tail hook on...
>
>>Tail hook, I never would have thought about that .
>>I wonder what 600kg of composite weaponry hanging off the tail would do to the
>>moment of inertia? :) .
>
>Weaponry in the tail? Naah, RHAW gear's going back there, in the rudder canoe.
>(Not that I expect anybody behind me or anything :)
>I can't put extra fuel tanks in the wingtips because the liquid nitrogen
>for the AIM-9's has to go there.
>
>What kind of primer should I use on the radomes?
Dave,
I can find out what we put on the F14's and F18's radomes if you want...
...... :^) .... Gil Alexander
>
>Dave Hyde "RV ball, 0.3"
>plain-vanilla RV-4 in garage "Roger ball!"
>nauga(at)windvane.umd.edu
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Earl W Brabandt <Earl_W_Brabandt(at)ccm.jf.intel.com> |
| Subject: | Re[7]: Main Spar, Make or Buy? |
Text item:
Hello all,
Regarding the question of the "optional" tapering of main spar stips -- I'd
recommend doing the work to taper them. Chances are good that you'll have less
trouble fitting the fuel tank nutplates later if they have been tapered. Like
wing rib lightening holes (before they were pre cut), this is optional, but it
makes construction easier later.
Cal
RV-6 N66VR in progress
Text item: External Message Header
The following mail header is for administrative use
and may be ignored unless there are problems.
***IF THERE ARE PROBLEMS SAVE THESE HEADERS***.
Subject: Re[6]: Main Spar, Make or Buy?
Date: Wed, 19 Jul 1995 23:33:39 -0500
)
From: gulf.net!rad(at)matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: Re[7]: priming (was: main spar make or buy) |
Mike Pilla said:
> I think the chap who gave the "corrosion protection" seminar at
> Frederick last year suggested MEK over Acetone because of the relative
> volatility of the solvents; i.e., the two are nearly the same as far
> as cleaning power goes. Not being a Chemical Engineer and only having
> had one semester of inorganic and one semester of organic chemistry
> (that I promptly forgot), I haven't a clue if this is correct or not.
> It just seems to work. Also, I don't have the "volatile" rag disposal
> problem, ...
I use Acetone instead of MEK because judging by the labels at least,
MEK seems more toxic. This is just my interpretation though, does anyone
know more about it? I _usually_ use a respirator and gloves, but I can't
honestly say I'm as careful as I probably should be.
Randall Henderson
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gil(at)rassp.hac.com (Gil Alexander) |
| Subject: | Re[2]: Primers and spars |
> Gee, am I the only guy who likes to see the manufacturers
> logo through a light layer of primer?
With a 1 mil coat of primer (the correct thickness of epoxy primers for
internal surfaces), you _should_ be able to see the manufacturers loga
through the paint layer. Acid etch solution does not removed the paint
(ink?) they use.
>
> The alclad layer was put there for a reason, wasn't it?
> Why scrub it off with scothchbrite pads?
Gently rubbing the surface with red ScotchBrite does _not_ take off the
Alclad layer. The main idea is to get the acid etch distributed and any
light surface "crud" off. Hard scrubbing is not needed.
>
> But then, maybe I've been corrupted by Art Chard; he
> suggested I use Sherwin-Williams Industrial Wash Primer
> at the builders class I attended, and who was I to
> second-guess a master like him?
Wash primers are acid based etching "paints", and negate the need for acid
etching. To use them properly (at least the aircraft grade primers)
careful control of dilution based on local humidity conditions must be
followed. They are not suitable as a "final" interior primer, and are
designed to be covered with another layer of a different type of primer.
It is important that his second primer layer be applied within a fairly
short time window. This full treatment is regarded as the ultimate in
corrosion control - good enough for salt-water based seaplanes.
>
> | Date: | Jul 20, 1995 |
| From: | Richard Chandler <mauser(at)Claris.COM> |
rv-list(at)matronics.com
> >The best way to make such a system (IMHO) is analog. Much the same
> >as the way the guts of a radio Control Servo work. You use two pots,
> >one for the controller, and one as a sensor on the flap, to divide
> >a voltage. You use a pair of opAmps to compare the voltages (With some
> >hysterisis built in) to activate the relay which powers the motor. As
> >an added bonus, you can attach a volt meter to the sensor pot to use as
> >a flap position indicator.
> >
> >Actually, I'm sure that Matt could come up with a variation of this
> >for his servo speed controller very easily.
>
> I have considered marketing a very similar concept but I have
> concerns that have kept me from getting serious about it. Generally, the
> electonics from your basic Radio Controlled Model servo would work
> out quite nicely. As a matter of fact, the servo used in the
> autopilot mentioned here recently has just such a circuit. Here's the
> problem in my mind. The position of the servo is controlled by a
> pulse train. In this pulse, the ratio of "on time" to "off time"
> is varied, thereby moving the output arm to a particular p
> osition. Obviously then, position sensing is very simple since there is
> a "formula " of sorts for any given position of the servo. This
> technique is generally referred to as "Pulse Width Modulation" (PWM).
> So what's the problem? Well, it's two fold in my mind. 1) depending
> on the servo design, power and a pulse train must be present at all
> times to maintain solid torque at a given position. Since feedback is
> present in the servo, it will work very hard to stay in the position it
> is suppose to based on the pulse train. This need can be designed
> out with gearing, i.e. when the power/pulse train is removed from
> the servo the arm basically won't move, but can be problemmatic
> when 2) the pulse train is interrupted for some reason. Depending on
> the on/off ratio, any position of the servo can be selected, whether
> you wanted it or not! If there's a glich in the PWM generator you
> could be in for a big suprise - especially if you're on final and
> the servo is connected to the trim tab.
>
> Obviously, there are technical solutions to all of this, but it
> never seemed like the complexity and liability was worth the "coolness"
> factor.
Actually Matt, you're one step too far up the chain. The pulse width is used
for the radio signal in a "Digital Proportional" RC system. But INSIDE the
typical Futaba servo, there's a pot attached to the gear train, and a voltage
that it's compared to.
-----|\ Comparator
| + | \__________________
| | / Down| |
/-+----|/ | |
Pot A | - | DT Relay |----- Mac Servo
| | | |
\-+----|\ | |
| + | \______|__________|
| | / Up
Pot B-+----|/
-
Not shown would be each pot being connected to the same + and ground, and a
100K resistor pulling each + side of the comparators to ground for the
hysterisis. (I think, it's been a looong time since I last looked at this
kind of thing. It might be one pulled to the + and one to the ground.)
So basically, if A is the control and B is the pot, if the voltage from B is
less than the setting of A, the relay is clicked and the servo runs until it
turns pot B to the same setting (more or less) as A.
(Heck, wasn't there a pre-tube way of doing this with opposing electromagnets
on a relay? Kind of like a very old auto voltage regulator?)
Just to be safe, put a cut out between the relay and the Servo, and a manual
toggle switch for controlling the servo, and then you have the same system as
a Cessna.
--
"Wait a minute, you expect us innocent children to climb up dangerous
scaffolding and paint naked people all over a church? We'll do it!!"
-- Yakko Warner, Animaniacs
"Yeah, I've got ADD, you wanna make something of.... oooh, cool. Look!"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Cooper" <cooper(at)seer.jpl.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Re:Primers and spars |
This is exactly what I'm doing on all surfaces. I clean off with MEK then use a
light coat of Sherman Williams wash primer. This is what Art Chard and Ken
Scott recommended to me too and it certainly is less work than dealing with a
separate acid wash, alodyne, primer process. I guess it all depends on where
you plan to station your bird, how much humidity you have and if you want
things to last for 75 years or just 50 years.
BC
On Jul 20, 8:50am, James Caufield wrote:
> Subject: Primers and spars
>
> Gee, am I the only guy who likes to see the manufacturers
> logo through a light layer of primer?
>
> The alclad layer was put there for a reason, wasn't it?
> Why scrub it off with scothchbrite pads?
>
> But then, maybe I've been corrupted by Art Chard; he
> suggested I use Sherwin-Williams Industrial Wash Primer
> at the builders class I attended, and who was I to
> second-guess a master like him?
>
> -- End of excerpt from James Caufield
--
Brian K. Cooper - Jet Propulsion Lab - Pasadena CA - (818)-354-6298
cooper(at)robotics.jpl.nasa.gov
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FWAVBMYQCLXJRGNTFWABMYQCQLXJRGTFWHABMYQCLXJVRGTFHABMYUQCLXVRGTFHOABYUQCLXWVRGTFH
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UMTMEBOJVWXKQLIIUMTMEBOJVWXKQLIIUMTMEBOJVWXKQLIIUMTMEBOJVWXKQLIIUMTMEBOJVWXKQLII
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dierks(at)austin.ibm.com |
| Subject: | Primers and spars (fwd) |
James, good point. The Randolph Epibond primer says you should be
able to see through it. That may be OK if you are going to top coat
but I put on more if it is going to be the only paint.
I also make the non-alcad coating thicker.
Also, the scotchbite step is just to skuff the alclad to get the paint
to stick better and really does not remove much AL.
I expect most of us overkill by priming all the alclad. If you just
do the areas that touch (like ribs against the skin or spars) plus
all the non-alclad (as Van suggests) you would be OK except in very
humid/costal areas and would reduce building time, cost, and wt.
Herman
> From root Thu Jul 20 14:40:19 1995
> Errors-To: bounces(at)matronics.com
> Precedence: bulk
> From: James Caufield <sequent.com!caufield(at)matronics.com>
> Message-Id: <199507201550.IAA25837(at)eng1.sequent.com>
> Subject: Primers and spars
>
> Gee, am I the only guy who likes to see the manufacturers
> logo through a light layer of primer?
>
> The alclad layer was put there for a reason, wasn't it?
> Why scrub it off with scothchbrite pads?
>
> But then, maybe I've been corrupted by Art Chard; he
> suggested I use Sherwin-Williams Industrial Wash Primer
> at the builders class I attended, and who was I to
> second-guess a master like him?
>
>
Herman Dierks, Dept. E54S, AWSD Austin, Texas
mail: dierks(at)austin.ibm.com VM: DIERKS at AUSVM6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dierks(at)austin.ibm.com |
I have heard and or read bad things about MEK. I think it is easly adsorbed
through your skin and can affect your liver. I used about a Gal. of it
for misc. cleaning of the skins while doing the sheet metal work.
I have stopped using it.
>
> I use Acetone instead of MEK because judging by the labels at least,
> MEK seems more toxic. This is just my interpretation though, does anyone
> know more about it? I _usually_ use a respirator and gloves, but I can't
> honestly say I'm as careful as I probably should be.
>
> Randall Henderson
> RV-6
>
Herman Dierks, Dept. E54S, AWSD Austin, Texas
mail: dierks(at)austin.ibm.com VM: DIERKS at AUSVM6
________________________________________________________________________________
by ono.lincoln.ac.nz (PMDF V4.3-13 #7492)
| From: | Stephen Bell <steve(at)discus.lincoln.ac.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: Re[7]: priming (using MEK) |
On Thu, 20 Jul 1995, Randall Henderson wrote:
> Mike Pilla said:
> >
> > ...... comments re: acetone vs MEK deleted.
> >
> I use Acetone instead of MEK because judging by the labels at least,
> MEK seems more toxic. This is just my interpretation though, does anyone
> know more about it? I _usually_ use a respirator and gloves, but I can't
> honestly say I'm as careful as I probably should be.
>
> Randall Henderson
> RV-6
>
The aircraft engineer who helped me early on with my project recommended
against using MEK purely from the safety point of view. His recomendations
were enough to convince me not to use it unless absolutely necessary.
I also talked in general with a fellow glider pilot about paint solvents
etc as used in building my RV and for working on my sailplane (GRP),
he has Phd in chemistry and is working as an environmental safety consultant.
The end result is i'm much more careful than I used to be with any solvents,
I don't use MEK,
I have a respirator with an organic solvent filter cartridge and a paint
spray prefilter (3M), I consider using this a minimum safety precaution.
Steve
steve(at)discus.lincoln.ac.nz
RV-6 23747,
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ammeterj(at)ammeterj.seanet.com (John Ammeter) |
| Subject: | WHO ARE WE ANYWAY??? |
I don't know if anyone has addressed this issue before. I would be
interested in knowing who is on the RV-LIST. Where are we from and what are
we building/flying? Obviously, RV's but how far along are we? I've seen
postings from Calgary, New Zealand and the USA. Is it possible or practical
to have a list of members?
For starters, I'm flying my RV-6, N16JA, out of Paine Field in Everett, WA.
It has about 215 hours on it and made it most of the way to Oshkosh in 1992.
A broken prop can really ruin your day.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: WHO ARE WE ANYWAY??? |
John Ammeter wrote:
>I don't know if anyone has addressed this issue before. I would be
>interested in knowing who is on the RV-LIST. Where are we from and what are
>we building/flying? Obviously, RV's but how far along are we? I've seen
>postings from Calgary, New Zealand and the USA. Is it possible or practical
>to have a list of members?
>
I'm glad you brought this up. I have been thinking of volunteering to
compile such a list.
I would like to see:
Name (of course)
RV type and status
city, state (or international equivalent)
e-mail address
It would be interesting to know what we do for a living, but I wouldn't
consider that required info. I also don't see a need for street addresses
or phone numbers on this list. What else would you want to know? I could
update the list every 3,6,? months by sending out a request for info to the
list. Everyone could send me the data via e-mail, and I will post the
compiled list to the group. Matt could include it with his FAQ to new
subscribers.
If there's enough interest, and we can decide what info we want on the list,
I would be happy to put it together. As a note to international members of
the group, please be specific about your location if it varies from our
city,st system (I confess, I used geography class to do my math homework).
Russell Duffy
I am a field service rep for Picker International. I install and maintain
Medical Imaging systems (mostly MRI and CT scanners).
RV-6 sn-22407
Empenage complete, currently working on fuel tanks, building both wings at
once. My project won't be flying for a looong time :-(
Navarre, FL
rad(at)gulf.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "MIKE PILLA" <mpilla(at)ccsmtplink.espinc.com> |
My understanding is that Acetone is equally bad for the liver; just
relative, I guess. At the Frederick, MD RVForum, the chap explained
that the relatively different volatilities between Acetone and MEK was
why he strongly recommended MEK over Acetone for removing the "crud".
I don't remember the details; i.e., whether it was the solvents
staying around too long and interfering with the next step, or if it
was the other way around and the sovlents evaporating too soon and not
doing a thorough cleaning job. Sure wish I had paid more attention to
my Chemistry classes. :-) I remember, at the time, that it was
"clear" and I wrote down "use MEK, not Acetone", but I am drawing on
memory for the details. The older I get (and the more I use MEK), the
worse my memory becomes. :-)
I'm one of those "belt and suspender" chaps. I use barrier cream,
then a pair of thin latex gloves and then heavier rubber gloves on top
of that - respirator, of course.
The respirator I use is the "supplied air system". I even shaved off
my beard of over twenty years because I was getting air leaks around
the edges and could smell the solvents. One chap I know had a lush
beard. He would smear Vasoline all around the edges to make an
effective air seal - I just couldn't go through all that. Amazing
what we do for our hobby!
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re: MEK
Date: 7/20/95 9:19 PM
I have heard and or read bad things about MEK. I think it is easly adsorbed
through your skin and can affect your liver. I used about a Gal. of it
for misc. cleaning of the skins while doing the sheet metal work.
I have stopped using it.
>
> I use Acetone instead of MEK because judging by the labels at least,
> MEK seems more toxic. This is just my interpretation though, does anyone
> know more about it? I _usually_ use a respirator and gloves, but I can't
> honestly say I'm as careful as I probably should be.
>
> Randall Henderson
> RV-6
>
Herman Dierks, Dept. E54S, AWSD Austin, Texas
mail: dierks(at)austin.ibm.com VM: DIERKS at AUSVM6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Graves <mgraves(at)ptdcs2.intel.com> |
Hi listers!
I just spoke with a chemical safety engineer and he said that
MEK is BAD-BAD-BAD, as in TOXIC BY INHALATION. He said acetone is the lesser of
2 evils.
Mike Graves
RV-6A in a box on the closet shelf
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gil(at)rassp.hac.com (Gil Alexander) |
I'll start an answer to John's question:-
Gil Alexander
Los Angeles --- near Marina del Rey
California
RV6A s/n 20701
tip-up canopy
electric flaps
electric elev. trim
tail - done
wings - 95% done
fuse - out of jig
- ordering finish kit next week
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark Richardson <richards(at)sofkin.ca> |
| Subject: | Oshkosh. Who is going ? |
Hi folks,
So what is the story here? Anyone going to Osh ?
My buddy John and I are going Tuesday thru Monday
and are planning to go to the RV banquet. It would
be great put some faces to the names.
Mark
************************************************************************
* Mark Richardson Software Kinetics Ltd *
* Senior Systems Analyst 65 Iber Rd. *
* VOX 613-831-0888 Stittsville, Ont *
* FAX 613-831-1836 richards(at)sofkin.ca *
************************************************************************
* RV-6 20819 '85 Virago 750 *
* EAA# - 367635 DoD# - 1506 *
************************************************************************
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Graves <mgraves(at)ptdcs2.intel.com> |
> From Curtis_Smith(at)ccm.al.intel.com Fri Jul 21 10:47:30 1995
> Date: Fri, 21 Jul 95 10:47:25 PST
> From: Curtis Smith <Curtis_Smith(at)ccm.al.intel.com>
> Message-Id: <950721104725_8(at)ccm.hf.intel.com>
> To: JamesX_Andersen(at)ccm.al.intel.com, Marty_Kell(at)ccm.al.intel.com,
> mgraves(at)ptdcs2.intel.com, kriss(at)protocol.com
> Subject: Humor...
>
> Taken from the Last Page, Motorcyclist, September 1991
>
> (The article is accompanied by a photo of a bike in the background. In
> the foreground we have a man in leathers w/ helmet holding a large
> bird from one wingtip. The wingspan is roughly as wide as he is
> tall...)
>
> Perils of Road Testing No. 23
>
> Staffer Lance Holst recently set a record by claiming the largest
> confirmed road kill ever recorded during _Motorcyclist_ testing. In
> fact, due to the size of the bird and the circumstances surrounding
> its demise, Holst was required to submit to interrogation by the FAA,
> as well as the NTSB, AAA, the National Audubon Society and the
> Guinness Book of Records. We quote the official FAA report.
>
> "During a routine evaluation session at _Motorcyclist's_ desert test
> complex, staffer Holst was traveling at a necessarily elevated rate of
> speed whilst quantifying dynamic stability criteria of a test unit.
> Operating under Visual Riding Rules, Holst sighted an unauthorized
> buzzard on the road surface ahead, eating an unidentified dead thing
> (UDT). Apparently distracted by a particularly recalcitrant piece of
> viscera, said buzzard failed to initiate its take-off roll
> expeditiously and was still in the early phases of a full-power
> climb-out when Holst (traveling at approximately 200 ft./sec.)
> realized a collision was imminent. Holst's helmet contacted the
> buzzard just aft of the right wing root, resulting in instantaneous
> and catastrophic failure of the bird's flight-control system. Staffer
> Holst blacked out momentarily immediately after impact but maintained
> control of his vehicle. Later examination of his Kiwi helmet revealed
> substantial damage to its energy- absorbing liner, indicating the
> severity of the impact ... "
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "MIKE PILLA" <mpilla(at)ccsmtplink.espinc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: WHO ARE WE [1] |
I'll add my info.
Mike Pilla
Old Bridge, NJ
involved with small startup in computer-telephony; struggling, so it
cuts into building time, unfortunately. as one wag said, "work is the
curse of the flying class" - just change flying to building. :-)
RV4 s/n 2866
electric flaps
O-320-E2D being converted to -D1A
tail - done
wings - done, lights installed and tested, strobes working, ...
fuse - still in jig, installed flap control blocks last evening
- finish kit in hand
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | sanchez(at)took.enet.dec.com |
unsubscribe
I have sent an unsubscribe note to rv-list-request but the
mail is still coming in. Since this is my last day on the job here I
am sending this note out. As soon as I get setup on the new job I
will re-subscribe. Happy riveting!
Cheryl Sanchez
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Who are we anyway??? |
There are a lot of possibilities with this list. We could
get into engines, props, options, etc. The question
is where to draw the line and how much does the list owner want
to do. Another consideration is do we want to go longer
than 80 characters per builder.
A more elaborate addition would be to have a flag differentiating
what a builder plans to do from what a builder has already done;
if each entry in a list letters in it, we could use
caps for done and small letters for want to do. This could
be a pain, so maybe only for a few items (eg O320E2D, o320e2d,
C/S, c/s).
Another thought is always a comments column for things like:
professional painter, duck-works (sorry if I misspelled it Don),
Phd metallurgy, ex-military test pilot, all thumbs or whatever.
I guess I'd vote for columns including what was previously
mentioned plus: engine model, prop, IFR/VFR.
BTW:
Don Karl Raleigh, NC rv6a 180hp c/s vfr
Note all the small letters. I hope to start this winter.
Is anybody in central or east NC with a finished 6A or 6 who
would offer me a demo ride? I'd pay all expenses legally allowable.
c ya,
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Don Karl karl@dg-rtp.dg.com (919)248-5915
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | James Mike Wilson <James_Mike_Wilson(at)ccm2.hf.intel.com> |
| Subject: | Re: WHO ARE WE [1] |
Text item:
Great idea!
James Mike Wilson (go by Mike)
St. Helens, OR (Portland area)
RV4, plans# 3369
started Feb. 93
Plan minimum configuration
no bells or whistles, except electric flaps
Want 180hp
tail - done
wing - done
all control surfaces - done
fuse in jig (skinning)
jmw -4
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and may be ignored unless there are problems.
***IF THERE ARE PROBLEMS SAVE THESE HEADERS***.
Subject: WHO ARE WE [1]
From: rassp.hac.com!gil(at)matronics.com (Gil Alexander)
Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 09:41:05 -0800
)
________________________________________________________________________________
I finally got back to the guy who sold me my HVLP gun and I dug
up some of my own info.
For those who missed the first post of mine:
I have an Binks Mach 1 HVLP. It runs off a compressor, not
a turbine and it is a true HVLP (HPLV is converted to HVLP at
gun). I'm not an expert. I painted my truck in my garage
without even a drop cloth and I just had a little paint dust
to clean up (there are some light stains on the floor and the
compressor air inlet is now a beautiful metallic blue). Other
than that, it was surprisingly a clean job. It's supposed to
use only a little over half as much paint as a normal gun, since
there is almost no overspray.
My setup (which is general purpose, not auto paint):
- Binks Mach 1 HVLP
- 3hp compressor
- moisture extractor
- pressure cup (like syphon cup, but pressurized)
- oversized nozzle on gun (for latex and clear wood finishes)
- extra regulator attached to bottom of gun
My costs in 1993 were (in same order):
- $359
- $300
- $20
- $70
- $93?
- $20
HOWEVER, this is not the ideal setup. Although the oversized
nozzle can be turned down, it's better to use the standard size
that comes with the Mach 1. Also, a pressure pot (which I have
but didn't use) is better to use than the pressure pot. The
gun ALONE is easy to clean (although that paper cup/baby food
jar setup sounds even easier). The pressure cup and it's inlets
to the gun add enough cleaning to make it not hard, but not
easy either. I hate cleaning the pressure pot, but I think
it's the way to go for a final paint job. I bought a cheap
pressure pot (Campbell Hausfeld) for $80 and the HVLP salesman
said it will do fine.
Since I'm self taught, having a great salesman was a blessing.
I think it's worth paying a little more for the gun, etc.
BTW, most of this stuff was bought at Sherwin-Williams.
Current costs for the correct setup (Sherwin-Williams):
- Mach 1 - $336, but $299 when on sale.
- 3hp compressor
- moisture extractor $20
- pressure pot $80
- extra regulator at gun (I don't know if this is necessary with
pressure pot).
Salesman also said the Devilbiss and a JGHV-530 are two other
HVLPs which are good and use a compressor.
To answer a few specific questions I received via E-mail:
- I wouldn't even consider spot priming with the cleanup hassle of
a pressure pot. Maybe the pot for painting and a siphon or
pressure cup for priming, but those two cups cost more than
that whole baby food jar setup people have been talking about.
Pressure pot would probably do well for external skin priming.
- A 5hp compressor is more than adequate for the Mach 1.
- I don't know how hard it is to clean variprime off these parts.
Feel free to email me with any more questions. I'd also
be glad to help out if anyone can't locate any items in their
area.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Don Karl karl@dg-rtp.dg.com (919)248-5915
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gil(at)rassp.hac.com (Gil Alexander) |
| Subject: | Re: Oshkosh. Who is going ? |
>Hi folks,
>
>So what is the story here? Anyone going to Osh ?
>My buddy John and I are going Tuesday thru Monday
>and are planning to go to the RV banquet. It would
>be great put some faces to the names.
>
>Mark
I'm going Thur. afternoon to Sun. morning (work schedule dicates
commercial flights :^( ).
Haven't got RV banquet tickets yet, but want to go.
Are we going to set up a meeting at Oshkosh for RV-listers??
... Gil Alexander ... last Oshkosh trip was in 1972!!
.... had a nice visit from Monte King
from this list last Wed. Added one
face from e-mail names to a person!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Graves <mgraves(at)ptdcs2.intel.com> |
Don Karl wrote about HVLP guns.
Don,
How does the finish quality compare to the HPLV guns. Does it have a smooth
mirror finish or orange peel. Also, is it prone to runs and sags?
Mike Graves
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | J.Ken_Hitchmough(at)mail.magic.ca (J.Ken Hitchmough) |
| Subject: | Re: WHO ARE WE [1] |
Here's mine
Ken Hitchmough
Toronto Ontario (that's Canada, eh!)
RV6A s/n 21450
tip-up canopy
electric flaps
electric elev. trim
tail - done
wings - done
fuse - done
finishing kit - done
engine installed - 360 with injection
wiring and doing all the fiddly bits
other
AirBeetle landing gear
3 piece instrument panel with side cheeks
home designed electronic instruments (similar to VM 1000)
Spent 6 months in Nigeria building AIrBeetles
The RV is going to get me back into fying after 16 years of abstinence. Could
never bring myself to pay for flying after leaving the Royal Air Force (U.K.)
--
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Magic Online Services Toronto Inc. (416) 591-6490
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | James Mike Wilson <James_Mike_Wilson(at)ccm2.hf.intel.com> |
| Subject: | Re[2]: Who are we anyway??? |
Text item:
My 2 cents,
Basic category specs. on what we're building or want to build is great.
However, I would like to know more about the people on the list.
Who are we anyway?
jmw -4
There are a lot of possibilities with this list. We could
get into engines, props, options, etc. The question
is where to draw the line and how much does the list owner want
to do. Another consideration is do we want to go longer
than 80 characters per builder.
A more elaborate addition would be to have a flag differentiating
what a builder plans to do from what a builder has already done;
if each entry in a list letters in it, we could use
caps for done and small letters for want to do. This could
be a pain, so maybe only for a few items (eg O320E2D, o320e2d,
C/S, c/s).
Another thought is always a comments column for things like:
professional painter, duck-works (sorry if I misspelled it Don),
Phd metallurgy, ex-military test pilot, all thumbs or whatever.
I guess I'd vote for columns including what was previously
mentioned plus: engine model, prop, IFR/VFR.
BTW:
Don Karl Raleigh, NC rv6a 180hp c/s vfr
Note all the small letters. I hope to start this winter.
Is anybody in central or east NC with a finished 6A or 6 who
would offer me a demo ride? I'd pay all expenses legally allowable.
c ya,
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Don Karl karl@dg-rtp.dg.com (919)248-5915
Text item: External Message Header
The following mail header is for administrative use
and may be ignored unless there are problems.
***IF THERE ARE PROBLEMS SAVE THESE HEADERS***.
Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 14:52:49 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Who are we anyway???
From: dg-rtp.dg.com!karl(at)matronics.com (Donald Karl)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "A. Reichert" <reichera(at)clark.net> |
Next up:
Alan Reichert
Reston, Virginia
Communications systems analyst and theatre technician.
RV-6 s/n 24179
Still in the "study the preview plans and get tools" stage.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | boatright thomas reginald <trboatri(at)ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> |
Hello all,
My name is Thomas Boatright. I live in Urbana Ill. For those of
you that know the area, I live about one mile east of Frasca airport.
I work at the University of Illinois mostly installing, maintaining
and programming fire alarm and security systems. I am 40 years old
and have two kids one, ten and one, five who both love aviation and
flying. The whole family (wife also) spends a week at Oshkosh every
year. I am currently building an rv-4, empenage complete, wings 85%
complete.
See you all at the "BIG O"
BTW I will be the one pulling
a yellow wagon.
Good luck on your projects
Tom
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeremy <jbenedic(at)uofport.edu> |
| Subject: | Van's on WWW - Aug. 15 |
Van's Aircraft is currently in the process of developing a web
page/site. Details are somewhat sketchy, but we are looking for
suggestions on materials that would be of use to both potential builders,
current builders, and those with completed aircraft. If you have any
suggestions, please e-mail me or the list (whichever is more politically
correct). I am leaving for Oshkosh with Van's first "wave" of aircraft
in about seven hours, so I cannot respond (or read) any mail until after the
show, but my mailbox is still open. If you have any ideas for content,
you can also find me at Van's booth during the duration of the show.
More info about the web site will be published on August 5. Thank you
for any help, comments, or flames.
Jeremy
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Oshkosh. Who is going ? |
| From: | "Kevin E. Vap" <kvap(at)solar.sky.net> |
-- [ From: Kevin E. Vap * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] --
> Hi folks,
>
> So what is the story here? Anyone going to Osh ? My buddy John and I are
going
> Tuesday thru Monday and are planning to go to the RV banquet. It would
be
> great put some faces to the names.
>
> Mark
I'll be there from Wed nite (maybe Thur AM) through Sun afternoon (have to
leave before the banquet).
It would be great to meet some of you. How about a Saturday afternoon get
together since many of us will miss the banquet? Maybe meet at Van's booth,
or near where most the RV's will be parked?
- Kevin
kvap@sky.net http://www.sky.net/~kvap
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: WHO ARE WE [1] |
| From: | "Kevin E. Vap" <kvap(at)solar.sky.net> |
-- [ From: Kevin E. Vap * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] --
I'll add my info.
Kevin Vap
Olathe, KS (Kansas City metro)
software engineer working for GPS manufacturer (Garmin)
RV-6 s/n 24163
- just getting started
- planning electric flaps, O-360, tip-up
- attending late September builders clinic @ Van's
kvap@sky.net http://www.sky.net/~kvap
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeffrey Hall <jhall(at)fortnet.org> |
Adding any weight that far aft is so critical that Van dislikes putting a
strobe on the rudder!! Think about it, 7.5 lbs at the tail of a Kitfox?
Jeff Hall
RV-4 (wing back in jig after 2+ year hiatus!)
________________________________________________________________________________
Greetings,
There seems to be plenty of interest in putting together a list of
information about the group members. There have been some good suggestions
about information to include. In order to limit the magnitude of this
project (for me), I have set a format for the information. It will be a
great help, if you will give your info in the format listed below. That way
I can just paste it into the list without having to re-arrange things.
NAME
CITY, STATE (OR INTERNATIONAL)
E-MAIL ADDRESS
RV-XX SN-XXXXX
THIS WILL BE GENERAL COMMENTS, PLEASE TRY TO START WITH THE STATUS OF YOUR
PROJECT, OPTIONS, AND ANY OTHER INFO THAT YOU WOULD LIKE TO INCLUDE. I'LL
TRY TO INCLUDE ANYTHING YOU PUT HERE (AS LONG AS IT'S NOT PRUDENTIAL
SECURITIES!)
Please e-mail the info to me at: rad(at)gulf.net
I will compile a list sorted by state, then e-mail it to the group when it
seems to be complete. I already have about a dozen entries that I've taken
from the mailings yesterday. I have attempted to put them in the proper
format. Send me another entry if you want to make sure.
Russell Duffy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dane Heule <76364.2426(at)compuserve.com> |
Matt:
I would like to subscribe to your RV list. I have been flying my RV-4 18LR
for 6 years here in Denver and I am active with the local Rockey Mountain
RVators.
Thank you!
Dane Heule
Compuserve address is 76364.2426
or bq535(at)freenet.hsc.colorado.edu
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle (Matt G. Dralle 1+ 510-447-9886) |
| Subject: | Re: WHO ARE WE ANYWAY??? |
>--------------
>John Ammeter wrote:
>
>>I don't know if anyone has addressed this issue before. I would be
>>interested in knowing who is on the RV-LIST. Where are we from and what are
>>we building/flying? Obviously, RV's but how far along are we? I've seen
>>postings from Calgary, New Zealand and the USA. Is it possible or practical
>>to have a list of members?
>>
>
>I'm glad you brought this up. I have been thinking of volunteering to
>compile such a list.
>
>I would like to see:
>
>Name (of course)
>RV type and status
>city, state (or international equivalent)
>e-mail address
>
>It would be interesting to know what we do for a living, but I wouldn't
>consider that required info. I also don't see a need for street addresses
>or phone numbers on this list. What else would you want to know? I could
>update the list every 3,6,? months by sending out a request for info to the
>list. Everyone could send me the data via e-mail, and I will post the
>compiled list to the group. Matt could include it with his FAQ to new
>subscribers.
>
>If there's enough interest, and we can decide what info we want on the list,
>I would be happy to put it together. As a note to international members of
>the group, please be specific about your location if it varies from our
>city,st system (I confess, I used geography class to do my math homework).
>
>--------------
As most of you have noticed, when you were added to the RV-LIST, I requested
that you send me your paper mail address and a number of other bits of info.
There are about 265 *active* members on the RV-LIST, and about 400 total.
Of the 400, I have address infomation on about 225 members. I generally
don't give this infomation out as I have been asked by a number of people
not to. I would suppose that Name/City/State information would be alright
though.
Matt Dralle
RV-LIST Admin.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bataller(at)hki127.ed.ray.com (Gary Bataller) |
Name: Gary Bataller
Type: RV6A, N615RV
Where: Westboro, MA
Me: Married, 4 kids (8,13,15,17); software engineer (ATC systems)
I am transporting my plane to the airport on August 12th, and will complete it
there.
I estimate about 2 more months of work. Just in case you are interested, I am
enclosing a list that I use to keep track of what needs doing. It helps me
not to forget to order parts and to show that the end is in sight. I'm sure others
do something similar.
Gary Bataller
Monday, 7/22/95
Need
Task Days
Parts Status
------------------------------------------------------------ ------
------ ----------------
***Fiberglassing/Bonding***
- upper cowl; attach existing hinges, add front hinges 2
- lower cowl; repair rear/left bottom, attach existing 4
started
hinges, add front hinges, attach airscoop,
add flow-redirectors
- airbox; finish assembly; fiberglass 2
started
- nose-wheel pants 2
started
- nose-wheel leg-fairing 4
- main-gear pant 3
started
- man-gear leg-fairings, top-cuff 5
***Electrical/Instruments***
- draw electrical schematics 5
started
- pull flap wires
- pull joystick wires
- pull wing wires to panel-area 1
yes
- route engine wires to cabin 3 yes
- wire fuse-blocks and relays 3 yes
- wire panel 5 yes
- attach backup COM antenna 1 yes
- attach ELT w/antenna 1
yes started
- attach compass mount 1
yes
- mount light dimmers 1
- mount flood/map lights 1
- wire 'joysticks' 1 yes
- attach battery 1 yes
- wire external contactor assembly 1 yes
- wing/fuselage electrical connectors 1 yes
- wire pitot plug 1 yes
-
Need
Task Days Parts
Status
------------------------------------------------------------ ------ ------
----------------
***Mechanical***
- adjust/rework elevator system (rivet fitting!!!) 3
started
- attach rudder controls 1
- make rudder-links (cabin) 1
- route/mount engine control (throttle,mixture) 1
yes
- route carb-heat 1 yes
- attach Halon fire-extinguisher 1 yes
- attach rubber-channeling for canopy mismatch 1
yes
- attach pitot assembly 1
- balance elevators (final) 1
- prime/assemble main gear components 2
started
- prime/assemble nose gear components 2
started
***Engine/Prop***
- attach alternator 1 yes
started
- attach regulator 2 yes
- attach carburetor, etc. 2
started
- attach magnetos,harness 2
- mount exhaust system 3
started
- finish spinner 3
- bolt extension/flywheel 1
- fit engine sensors (oil,manifold,EGT,CHT,fuel) 2 yes
- drill for grounding straps 1
-
Need
Task Days Parts
Status
------------------------------------------------------------ ------ -----
----------------
***Air-Distribution***
- carb-heat control/cable/routing 2 yes
- cabin-heat box/vucts/routing 1
yes
***Hydraulics/Fuel/Vacum***
- route pitot/static lines 2 yes
- rework brake-plate flanges 1 yes
- route brake lines 1
- mount brake-fluid can 1
- oil-cooler attachment 1
yes started
- oil hoses 1 yes
- fuel-lines 1 yes
- fuel-primer 1
- fuel-pump mount 1
- attach vacum pump 1 yes
***Finishing Touches***
- seats/cushions 1
- seat belts 1
- sound-proofing 2 yes
started
- carpets 3 yes
- cabin interior 3 yes
- apply tail number 1 yes
***Paint***
- paint small pieces (ie. spinner pieces)
- touch up cabin paint 1
yes
- repaint canopy
-
Need
Task Days Parts
Status
------------------------------------------------------------ ------ -----
----------------
***At Airport***
- reassemble wings, flaps, ailerons, etc... 5
- time engine 2
- bleed brakes 1
- tons of other stuff...
***Paperwork/Misc.***
- perform weight/balance
- pitot/static etc. check yes
- DAR inspection yes
- engine/airframe logs
- radio station license
yes
- required placards yes
- pay MA tax yes
- get aerobatic (?)
- get parachute training (?)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: WHO ARE WE ANYWAY??? |
Here's my info:
Bob Hall
Colorado Springs, CO
USAF ret, dabbler in computer programming
RV-6 s/n 20719
electric elev. trim
electric flaps
sliding canopy
tail - 98%
wings- 75%
fuselage - preparing my order
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | J.Ken_Hitchmough(at)mail.magic.ca (J.Ken Hitchmough) |
| Subject: | to Austin in Vancouver |
>Hi Ken, notice you are in Ontario and have a nice 0360. I need anengine
>for my RV-6. Any sources in your area?..Austin in Vancouver.
Austin, there is a guy here in Toronto who's rebuilt a few engines for RVs, he
also helps find them if you need it. I can give you his name if you're
interested. Contact me directly at
j.ken_hitchmough(at)magic.com
Ken
--
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Magic Online Services Toronto Inc. (416) 591-6490
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Who Are We Reply |
Diane & Bob Seibert
Georgetown, Texas
Quality Manager @ Motorola
RV-6 N691RV S/N 20691
Completed October 92
455 Hours TTAF Engine 52 Hours SMOH
O-320-E2D Sliding Canopy
Took 2300 HRS to build EVERYTHING
Look for "RED BIRD" at Oshkosh
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Wentz <Don_Wentz(at)ccm2.hf.intel.com> |
| Subject: | Re: WHO ARE WE [1] |
Don Wentz
Scappoose Oregon (20 miles from Van's shop)
RV6 s/n 20369 N790DW
tip-up canopy
electric flaps, elevator, aileron, rudder trims
180hp fixed Warnke prop
First flight June 30, 1994, 196hrs as of today, July 22, 1995
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Wentz <Don_Wentz(at)ccm2.hf.intel.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Duckworks landing lights |
Dave, when I initially showed them to Van's, they commented that there would be
possible structural impact to the integrity of the 'D' Section leading edge.
Translate that to possible weakening of the wing. Remember basic physics and
moment arms? The closer to the fuse you get, the more load is incurred.
In addition, the closer you put them to the prop, the more reflection you get
off the prop. This is especially noticable in darker environments (unlighted
fields) where it matters most.
I didn't know any better and someone said that adding weight at the tips will
reduce roll rate. 1 lb at the tip is not going to affect an RV roll rate. So
you can benefit from my unfortunate experience and put them where they will do
the best job, at the tips.
dw
Primarily to Don Wentz...
I got my Duckworks landing light on Saturday, and spend some time fiddlin' with
it. The instructions say that the outermost bay is (probably) the best place
to put it, (possibly) for structural reasons. I notice, however, that even the
Duck has his mounted inboard. Has someone looked at the structural
impact (poor choice of words, I guess), or was it just decided that it was
probably no factor? Sure doesn't look like a problem, and I see more
inboard than outboard these days. Just want all the info I can get before
I hack up my leading edge.
Dave Hyde
nauga(at)windvane.umd.edu
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Wentz <Don_Wentz(at)ccm2.hf.intel.com> |
| Subject: | RV-8 first flight! |
Well, I just can't resist - I happened to fly into Van's saturday to see how the
project was coming. Good timing, after an hour of final checks and adjustments,
at about 5:45pm the RV-8 prototype took to the air with Van at the controls.
Most things seemed normal and after about 25 minutes he landed to check some
squaks. I expect them to be furiously flying the time off so it can head for
Oshkosh on Tuesday!
Color is hard to describe, 'robin's egg blue' as described by Andy, but it looks
very similar to the blue on my Van's Air Force mug. No time for stripes yet.
dw
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ammeterj(at)ammeterj.seanet.com (John Ammeter) |
I had NO IDEA that I would strike such an interest by simply asking WHO ARE
WE? I apologize to whoever ends up with the task of listing all the
respondents. Obviously, our backgrounds will be all over the scale; we do
share one common interest. RV's.
Terry in Calgary e-mailed me to ask if he should be on the list since he has
only sent away for the preview plans. Of course, he should be on the list.
We all started the same way. Wondering if we are making the right decision.
My biggest concern at the time was if Van's Aircraft was stable enough to
still be in business when I was ready for the finishing kit. I already knew
that the RV-6 was for me.
I talk to lots of people that want to build RV's. Some do and some don't.
The saddest thing is to listen to someone tell me that they will build when
they've moved, when the kids are done with college, when they have time,
whatever excuse they are using is valid for them but it still means they
won't ever build. They just want to dream but won't take the first step.
One friend wants to build an RV-6A. His father-in-law is a retired Navy
Primary Trainer from WWII; he is getting on in years, no longer has his
medical, but, he still loves aircraft. He would love to help his son-in-law
build and fly an RV. I took the F-I-L up in my RV-6. He is the only
passenger I have ever had that, when taking the stick, immediately knew how
to fly the RV. I learned a lot that day. I know both of them would benefit
from the RV Experience. Money really isn't the problem here. Indecision
and lack of committment is.
I doubt that any member of the RV-List lacks that committment. We wouldn't
be here if we did. However, if you know someone who is thinking of building
talk to them, invite them to your shop, give them a flight in your RV. Here
in the Puget Sound area we have Arlington Airport. The RV Bunch, as some
call us, usually can be found either at the restaurant or in the south end
hangars. There are around 15 RV's hangared at Arlington now. One of the
Bunch just had his First Flight on April 15, 1995. He left for Oshkosh
today. Look for an unpainted RV-6, N95GW. You'll probably see Gary Walters
and his son, Kevin, standing somewhere near. Tell him "HI" for me. Gary is
flying with another RV Bunch'er, Greg Rainwater, N818GR. Greg is bringing
his son, Chad. This is the way RV'ers have fun. As Garys wife said to me
today, "all four boys -----". Yep, we all tend to be young at heart when we
hop into our RV toys.
Enough for today. I know, someone probably just said, "Damn, he's
long-winded"; guilty as charged.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dierks(at)austin.ibm.com |
| Subject: | Suggestion on WHO ARE WE ANYWAY |
Why don't you all hold off broadcasting who you are until
someone decides what format they want the data in and who
will compile the list. Then everyone can fill out the template
and sent it TO THAT PERSON. They can compile the list and then
mail out ONE COPY or we can FTP the file.
I don't think we all want to see a 500 pieces of mail on who we are.
Also, if they have a template, then it will make it easier to cut and
paste together the list.
--------------------------------------------------------
*NOTICE for internet mail*: Any ideas or thoughts expressed here are my
own and are independent of my employer.
Herman Dierks, Dept. E54S, AWSD Austin, Texas
mail: dierks(at)austin.ibm.com VM: DIERKS at AUSVM6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John.Morrissey(at)its.csiro.au (John Morrissey) |
| Subject: | Re[2]: WHO ARE WE ANYWAY??? |
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re: WHO ARE WE ANYWAY???
Date: 21/7/95 9:25 AM
Stuff deleted
I would like to see:
Name John Morrissey
RV type and status RV4 Tail group finished wings almost finished - Fuselage
next! Just relocated to new house, building my dream
workshop! ( Helped build Australia's first RV6)
city, state Canberra, Australia
e-mail address John.Morrissey(at)its.csiro.au
It would be interesting to know what we do for a living
I work fo the CSIRO (Commonwealth Scientific & Industrial Research
Organisation) as a computer network engineer.
I could update the list every 3,6,? months by sending out a request for
info to the list.
Any chance of putting it on the web??
Everyone could send me the data via e-mail, and I will post the compiled
list to the group. Matt could include it with his FAQ to new subscribers.
If there's enough interest, and we can decide what info we want on the list,
I would be happy to put it together. As a note to international members of
the group, please be specific about your location if it varies from our
city,st system (I confess, I used geography class to do my math homework).
Don't be too upset, most American's think we Australian's live in South
America!! :-)
John Morrissey
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JerryFlyRV(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 first flight! |
Don Wentz wrote
>Well, I just can't resist - I happened to fly into Van's saturday to see how
>the
>project was coming. Good timing, after an hour of final checks and
>adjustments,
>at about 5:45pm the RV-8 prototype took to the air with Van at the controls.
While out flying today I was lucky enough to spot Van in the RV-8 flying
around in our local area, after a little radio chat he pulled up along side
of my RV-6 and flew formation at what looked like about 10ft. off my left
wing giving my wife and I a good look at the RV-8 in flight, it is a very
nice looking airplane, still did not have the gear fairings or wheel pants
but is very clean looking in flight.
Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JerryFlyRV(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: WHO ARE WE [1] |
Jerry Springer
Hillsboro, OR ( 6 mi from Van's)
RV-6 s/n 20241 N906GS
Third customer built RV-6 to fly
Tip-up, Elec flaps, Elec trim, Vac Gyros,
Navaid autopilot, Rocky MTN. Encoder
O-360 A4A,Warnke Prop
First Flight July 14, 1989
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Joining the group |
Hi, my name is Dan Davis for the Seattle Area and I would like to join your
group.I am currently working on my wings on my rv6. Hope to hear from you
latter.
Dan Davis
rv6dan(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Duckworks landing lights location |
| From: | Mike Fredette <mfredett(at)ichips.intel.com> |
>Don writes:
>Dave, when I initially showed them to Van's, they commented that there would be
>possible structural impact to the integrity of the 'D' Section leading edge.
>Translate that to possible weakening of the wing. Remember basic physics and
>moment arms? The closer to the fuse you get, the more load is incurred.
and DAVE HYDE asks
>I got my Duckworks landing light on Saturday, and spend some time fiddlin' with
>it. The instructions say that the outermost bay is (probably) the best place
>to put it, (possibly) for structural reasons. I notice, however, that even the
>Duck has his mounted inboard. Has someone looked at the structural
>impact (poor choice of words, I guess), or was it just decided that it was
>probably no factor? Sure doesn't look like a problem, and I see more
>inboard than outboard these days. Just want all the info I can get before
>I hack up my leading edge.
For what it's worth, I used to own an A35 Bonanza, circa '49 vintage. All
of
the older Bonanzas had their landing lights located in the wing leading edge, 5-6
ft
out from the root. In the course of maintaining this nice old bird, I had several
chances
to talk to Norm Colvin at the American Bonanza Soc. He was chief engineer for the
Bonanza/
Baron product lines for many years, knows what he's talking about. Anyway, he said
that MANY
of the infamous in-flight breakups of the early Bonanzas were caused not by the
v-tail letting
go in a high-G pull up, but the failure of the wing at the landing light location.
I don't know
how much of the in-flight stuctural loads the leading edge of the RV carries, but
on Bonanzas,
the D section is an integral part of the spar, and when it's integrity was broken
by cutting
the hole for the lights, the wing strength was really compromised. Later models
moved the light
to the nose gear, which in turn caused the need for constant light replacement
due to vibration.
Well, everything in airplane design is a compromise, in this case I guess frequent
landing light
replacement was a good trade off from wing failure.
Now, before the fireworks begin, an RV wing is NOT a Bonanza wing obviously.
Vans
spar is MASSIVE for the size of the plane. And I'm sure that Don's wing is just
fine, but as he
mentions, physics are basic and should be considered. Mounting the lights at/near
the tip of the
wing would eliminate any structural concerns, plus it makes access easier through
removal of the
fiberglass tip. I'm not an engineer, just my two cents worth.
RGDS
Mike Fredette
RV-4
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark Richardson <richards(at)sofkin.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: WHO ARE WE ANYWAY??? |
This is me...
Mark Richardson
Nepean, Ontario (suburb of Ottawa)
software engineer/project manager - Naval EW systems
RV-6 s/n 20819
- tail about to be mostly redone (previous builder
wasn't all that skilled!)
- planning sliding canopy, electric flaps, and
electric trim on ailerons and elevator
- planning on O-320B or D
- attending RV forum near Syracuse NY in Sept. and
leaving for OSH tomorrow
Mark
************************************************************************
* Mark Richardson Software Kinetics Ltd *
* Senior Systems Analyst 65 Iber Rd. *
* VOX 613-831-0888 Stittsville, Ont *
* FAX 613-831-1836 richards(at)sofkin.ca *
************************************************************************
* RV-6 20819 '85 Virago 750 *
* EAA# - 367635 DoD# - 1506 *
************************************************************************
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave Hyde <nauga(at)windvane.umd.edu> |
Who are we?
Dave Hyde
RV-4
Empennage complete
Wings ~70% complete
Ordering fuse soon
Bells and whistles:
2-axis electric trim (installed)
planning electric flaps
I'm a flight test engineer for the Navy, working flying qualities/stability
and control of attack airplanes.
DH
nauga(at)windvane.umd.edu
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave Hyde <nauga(at)windvane.umd.edu> |
Michael Graves wrote:
> Perils of Road Testing No. 23
>
> Staffer Lance Holst recently set a record by claiming the largest
> confirmed road kill ever recorded during _Motorcyclist_ testing.
Although not during any type of testing, I think I've also got at least
a county-wide record too. About four years ago I was driving to work when
an 18 lb turkey (yes, a _turkey_) flew in front of my Golf. I was going
about 60-65 mph when I hit him. He came through the windshield, bounced
off of my face, and landed in the passenger side footwell. I was the only
car in the area, so I was able to coast to the side almost blind. How does
this pertain to RV's? Not much, but had the same thing happened in
an airplane, with all the noise and glass and blood (mine and the turkey's),
I don't think I could've landed safely. (That also assumes the bird could've
gotten around the prop.) I keep a sharp lookout for feathered VFR
traffic now, though.
No permanent damage to me. The turkey was not so lucky, and my car smelled
_really_ good on those warm summer days. Also made for great pictures!
Dave Hyde (who now knows turkeys can fly)
nauga(at)windvane.umd.edu
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "A. Reichert" <reichera(at)clark.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Suggestion on WHO ARE WE ANYWAY |
Does everyone have WWW access (or at least a majority)? I may be willing
to put together a form for you folks to register with.
- Alan
On Sun, 23 Jul 1995 austin.ibm.com!dierks(at)matronics.com wrote:
> Why don't you all hold off broadcasting who you are until
> someone decides what format they want the data in and who
> will compile the list. Then everyone can fill out the template
> and sent it TO THAT PERSON. They can compile the list and then
> mail out ONE COPY or we can FTP the file.
>
> I don't think we all want to see a 500 pieces of mail on who we are.
> Also, if they have a template, then it will make it easier to cut and
> paste together the list.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "michael draper" <michael_draper(at)stream.com> |
Name: Mike Draper
Type: RV6
Status: Tail nearing completetion
Where: Bridgewater, MA
Industry: Software, Systems Development.
Myself: Married, two boys (7 & 9). Project was placed on hold past 3
years while my job had me on the road 70% time. Joined a new company
in April, 0% travel, found this list and can't wait to dust off my
project. Was able to get some acro training in the past few years,
makes you really appreciate the RV...
Email: michael.draper(at)stream.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave Hyde <nauga(at)windvane.umd.edu> |
Jeff Hall wrote:
>Adding any weight that far aft is so critical that Van dislikes putting a
>strobe on the rudder!! Think about it, 7.5 lbs at the tail of a Kitfox?
Yes, but this is because of what the weight does to the CG, not moments
of inertia. The discussion we were having was about whether or not
an airplane that is nominally recoverable from a spin could have the
moments of inertia affected by the weight such that the spin would
then be unrecoverable (but the CG still in limits). Sounds unlikely to
me.
>RV-4 (wing back in jig after 2+ year hiatus!)
Feels good, don't it?
Dave Hyde
nauga(at)windvane.umd.edu
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Doug Weiler <Doug.Weiler(at)swamp.mn.org> |
I'll be at OSH from Thursday through Sat afternoon. Flying my C-180 (N5128E)
and planning to bring along Ross Rebgetz, an RV-Lister from Townsville,
Australia. Ross is planning to fly into LAX and them on to MSP and he and I
plus fellow local RV builder Kevin Knutson plan to fly over in the 180.
This is Ross' first trip to the U.S. and to OSH so I expect him to really enjoy
the trip and probably take home an RV kit!!!
The 180 will hopefully be on the classic show line (tan, blue and brown). Any
RV listers are invited to stop by, plus I'll try to hang around Van's tent a
little and hope to meet some of you. I'll have the red Northwest Airlines hat
on!!
Doug Weiler,
Pres, MN Wing, doug.weiler(at)swamp.mn.org
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Ruble <cruble(at)cisco.com> |
Chris Ruble
Milpitas ( say... mill-pee-tus ), Calif.
Product Test Egn., Cisco Systems
RV-6 S/N# 22151
Tail feathers completed
Wings in process
Currently flying a '65 Cherokee 180 (8085W)
__________________________________________________________________________
| |
| ( ) |
| ( ) ( ) Chris Ruble |
| /\ )( ) Gotta' love it! cruble(at)cisco.com |
| / \) /\ ) ) / Piper PA-28-180 |
| / \/ \ ) __|__ N8085W |
|/ \ \ _____(o)_____ Shelter 92, SJC |
|________\___\___!_ ! _!___________________________________________________|
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Ruble <cruble(at)cisco.com> |
| Subject: | Pitot tube mount |
I have received several requests for a copy of the pitot tube mount that
I mentioned the other day. The best thing for me to do at this point is to
send the Dwg. to the Hovan's home page. The only problem is I don't have
Mr. Hovan's address. If anybody does....send it my way.
_______________________________________________________________________
| |
| ( ) |
| ( ) ( ) Chris Ruble |
| /\ )( ) Gotta' love it! cruble(at)cisco.com |
| / \) /\ ) ) / Piper PA-28-180 |
| / \/ \ ) __|__ N8085W |
|/ \ \ _____(o)_____ Shelter 92, SJC |
|________\___\___!_ ! _!________________________________________________|
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Graves <mgraves(at)ptdcs2.intel.com> |
Hi listers!
I am listening for good tidbits for when I start construction later.
I had decided to use a fixed pitch prop (no particular reason), when a fellow
builder suggested that a c/s prop is the only way to go. I would be interested
to hear other opinions on the subject. What about performance increase, complexity
to operate, reliability, maintenance,extra cost etc. Thanks in advance for
your opinions.
Mike Graves
RV-6A in a box on closet shelf
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gil(at)rassp.hac.com (Gil Alexander) |
| Subject: | Oshkosh RV-list get-together |
RV-listers,
I like Kevin's idea ... especially since I found out I'm
also missing the RV banquet :^(
How about a meeting just outide Van's booth (the corner
nearest the Red RV-6T) on Saturday afternoon at 2:00 pm???
... Gil Alexander
PS I'll be out of town for 2 days, then flying straight to Oshkosh. Could
we set a time to-day please???
>-- [ From: Kevin E. Vap * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] --
>
>> Hi folks,
>>
>> So what is the story here? Anyone going to Osh ? My buddy John and I are
>going
>> Tuesday thru Monday and are planning to go to the RV banquet. It would
>be
>> great put some faces to the names.
>>
>> Mark
>
>I'll be there from Wed nite (maybe Thur AM) through Sun afternoon (have to
>leave before the banquet).
>
>It would be great to meet some of you. How about a Saturday afternoon get
>together since many of us will miss the banquet? Maybe meet at Van's booth,
>or near where most the RV's will be parked?
>
>- Kevin
>kvap@sky.net http://www.sky.net/~kvap
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mike casmey <102023.1363(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | rv-4 pitot line placement |
OK, I've stared at my wing long enough. Would someone please clue me in as to
how to run the pitot line that came with my kit the way that the plans show it.
The pitot tube looks like it is just inboard of the tie down ring, and the line
makes a sharp bend through the main rib, up through the spar, through two nose
ribs and down under the tank. RIGHT!!! Where do you begin feeding and bending
the line, tube end or tank end? I just don't see how you can feed the tube and
bend it at the same time going up and down and around the ribs and spar. What
other alternatives are there?
Thanks Mike Casmey , Minneapolis
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris Schulte" <chris(at)ASHTECH.COM> |
I was talking with a friend of mine who has a hanger mate with an
RV-6. He said he has a few hours in the bird and does notice a little
tail wagging action. He was suggested the aircraft could us a little
more tail area back there. Does any one know if the RV-6T with it's
bigger tail section has overcome the wagging phenomenon?
Chris.
RV-6 #21390
San Jose CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gil(at)rassp.hac.com (Gil Alexander) |
| Subject: | Re[3]: alodine in spray bottle |
RV-listers,
I tried Mike's idea of using a spray bottle, and it worked great.
It certainly beats brushing for large sheet parts. I used red ScotchBrite
pads and light pressure to ensure coverage. It is economical as Mike says,
hardly using any of the solutions. The whole job also seemed to go faster,
partly because it was easier to do more parts simultaneously.
At only $1.49 each for the spray bottles (garden/plant section of
the local drug store), and with the solution savings, I vote for this as
the tip-of-the-month. :^)
Gil Alexander, RV6A, #20701 ... just primed seat pans, baggage floor
and electric flap parts
>
>Corrosion Treatment Process:
>
>1) Physically prepare the parts to be treated. This would include removing
>scratches and any polishing of edges etc. with ScotchBrite if needed.
>
>2) Wipe clean. Use solvent if grease or other foreign material needs removing.
>
>3) Wet with water. This helps the solution evenly distribute over surface
>quickly.
>
>4) Spray with Alumiprep and scrub with SoctchBrite. This will scuff the
>surface. If you plan to polish anything, you may not want to use ScotchBrite
>but just wet with solution.
>
>5) Let dwell for about 3 TO 4 minutes (go by instructions and your own
>judgment).
>
>6) Rinse THOROUGHLY.
>
>7) Spray with Alodyne and scrub with DIFFERENT ScotchBrite pad to evenly
>distribute solution.
>
>8) Let dwell for about 3 TO 4 minutes (again, go by instructions and your own
>judgment).
>
>9) Rinse THOROUGHLY and allow to dry.
>
>10) Prime with what ever you choose. I have used both Courtaulds and PPG wash
>primer. Both seem fine. The wash primer is easier, quicker and cheaper.
>
>
>Hope this helps,
>
>
>jmw (Mike), -4 skinning the fuse
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David A. Barnhart" <barnhart(at)crl.com> |
| Subject: | Pro-Sealing isn't so bad |
I am writing this after just completing the pro-sealing of the
inner ribs in my left fuel tank. It was NOT the horrible task
that a lot of people make it out to be. Of course, I had
excellent help and guidance.
Scott McDaniels of Arizona Aerocrafters has built several RV's,
and quite a few tanks. His own RV-6A won awards at Copperstate
a few years ago when he entered it. Far a small fee, Scott basically
allowed me to help him while he sealed my tank ribs. Because the job
turned out to be a piece of cake, I thought I would describe a
few important things I learned today from Scott.
The cradle:
Scott's cradle does not have a base. It is simply two
upgrights, each with a leading-edge-shaped cutout. Each upright is
clamped to a very low sawhorse. The top of each sawhorse is only
about 24 inches high. This allows the rivet bucker to stand and
easility buck the rivets. The riveter can comfortably sit in a chair
and drive the rivets. And with no crosspiece or base to get in the
way, driving those frontmost few rivets was not a problem. Scott
used the rivet gun and I used the bucking bar.
Pro-Seal:
Scott uses only TWO TABLESPOONS of pro-seal per rib. This was more
than enough, and he mixed up only enough at one time to do a single
rib. The pro-seal was applied to the rib flange with a popsicle
stick, and a cross-section of the rib flange and pro-seal looks like:
-----------
/ \ <-------Pro-seal
/ \
----------------- <-- rib flange
|
|
|Rib Web
|
By the way, we applied no pro-seal to the nose section of the inner
ribs because there are no rivets there anyway. While I held the skin
apart, Scott inserted the rib into the tank. That way none of the
pro-seal would get scraped off during the insertion process.
When we did this, we had ALL the ribs clecoed in the tank. We simply
removed one rib at a time, pro-sealed and riveted it, and went on
to the next one.
Riveting:
Scott riveted, I bucked. Yawn.
Yes, we used latex gloves, but not many. Yes, we used MEK, but
not much.
Guys, this was easy. The two key elemments were the cradle (low and
with to base) and using just enough pro-seal to do the job.
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
rv-6 sn 23744
________________________________________________________________________________
I am searching for information relating to RV4 's.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Wittman <73362.2004(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | "WHO" info for Russell Duffy |
Thanks for taking the time to compile this data. I'll be looking for the
completed product with great interest.
Jim Wittman
RV-6 S/N 24048
Tail @ 50%; Wings on order
Minneapolis MN
Jim Wittman(at)73362.2004 (CompuServe)
I have 51 yrs, though it doesn't seem like it except when I try to get out of
bed. I'm married; one of our combined 7 kids is away and three more will be out
in the next year. I run a truck maintenance business; but unfortunately that
does NOT make me a mechanic. I flew helicopters for 10 yrs, Army and comm'l,
and had a little exposure to our maintenance operations (still didn't learn
enough to help me now). I'll get the best engine I can afford when I get that
far. O-360 w/ C/S, Throttle-body fuel system and elec ignition preferred. I
hope to equip for IFR so that my trips can be somewhat more reliable.
________________________________________________________________________________
Donald J. Karl
Raleigh, NC
karl@dg-rtp.dg.com
RV-6A SN-not_yet
I want to start a 6A in early 1996. I'll go for 360ci (parallel valve)
maybe injected, maybe carb. I'll start with VFR planning on expanding
to IFR (only for occasional use). Might go to c/s prop right away?$$?
Hinged canopy, electric flaps, trim unknown.
I'm 32 years old. I'm an operating system kernel programmer;
10 years at IBM and now 1 year at Data General working on
UNIX. Until three years ago, I knew nothing about planes, but since
then I've read everything I can get my hands on. I still don't
have plane building experience, but I probably have about 8000 hrs of
experience doing construction and woodworking. I think the big
attraction to planes for me is the materials will weigh much less
and I won't have sawdust up my nose. I bet that aluminum is sharp
though??? Fellow rv-lister Wayne Westerhold works one aisle away
and is teaching me a lot. We both wanted an RV before we met.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KWilli8027(at)aol.com |
kent and laurie williams - rv6a - o-320e2d - finish painting after oshkosh.
plumbing contractor - austin,tx 5yr's this month. apx 1900 hr's const time.
oh btw. tilt up canopy, std flap mechanism(this seems to be an item here)
lucky enough to have locals like tony bingelis to assist in construction (he
owed me-i helped him with two of his), jim stugart on electrical (elec
engineer), seth hancock on engine rebuild (machinist) and finally bob seibert
and mark fredrick with painting a metallic teel green . one more thing. all
you builders who have just begun need to spend less time here and more time
on your project !
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RUSS_NICHOLS_at_SAC__DATA__PROCESSING(at)fire.ca.gov |
>From RUSS_NICHOLS_at_SAC__DATA__PROCESSING Mon Jul 24 15:21:06 0700 1995 remote
from fire.ca.gov
From: RUSS_NICHOLS_at_SAC__DATA__PROCESSING(at)fire.ca.gov (RUSS NICHOLS)
Subject: Re: Who are we
Russ Nichols
Sacramento, CA
Russ_Nichols(at)fire.ca.gov
RV-6 SN 24010
Empenage in progress. Tool collection growing...
Software engineer/project manager,
California Dept. of Forestry
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re-Post of List Format (non-tech) |
Greetings,
This is a re-post of the message I sent Saturday defining the format for
information to be included in the list of users. I have received messages
from a couple of people who didn't get the original.
If you wish to be included on the list, PLEASE send your info to me and not
the list. I'm certain that many people are getting tired of all the
"chatter".
A couple of people have asked about putting the list on the WEB. That's
fine, but I bet a lot of people only have e-mail access.
So far, there are about 40 names on the list (including the dozen messages
from today that I haven't gotten around to adding). So far the countries
are: USA, Australia, Canada, Denmark, New Zealand. Keep em Comming!
Rusty
*********************
MESSAGE FROM SATURDAY
*********************
Greetings,
There seems to be plenty of interest in putting together a list of
information about the group members. There have been some good suggestions
about information to include. In order to limit the magnitude of this
project (for me), I have set a format for the information. It will be a
great help, if you will give your info in the format listed below. That way
I can just paste it into the list without having to re-arrange things.
NAME
CITY, STATE (OR INTERNATIONAL)
E-MAIL ADDRESS
RV-XX SN-XXXXX
THIS WILL BE GENERAL COMMENTS, PLEASE TRY TO START WITH THE STATUS OF YOUR
PROJECT, OPTIONS, AND ANY OTHER INFO THAT YOU WOULD LIKE TO INCLUDE. I'LL
TRY TO INCLUDE ANYTHING YOU PUT HERE (AS LONG AS IT'S NOT PRUDENTIAL
SECURITIES!)
Please e-mail the info to me at: rad(at)gulf.net
I will compile a list sorted by state, then e-mail it to the group when it
seems to be complete. I already have about a dozen entries that I've taken
from the mailings yesterday. I have attempted to put them in the proper
format. Send me another entry if you want to make sure.
Russell Duffy
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Fuel tank Advice needed |
Have finished empennage, will soon be ordering wing kit. Would appreciate
name, number or address of wing tank builders any of you builders have had
experience with. I do all my building alone and don't think I'll be able to
handle the gun, bar and proseal all at the same time. Comments welcome.
CRazer2(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Oshkosh RV-list get-together |
| From: | "Kevin E. Vap" <kvap(at)solar.sky.net> |
-- [ From: Kevin E. Vap * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] --
Gil (and others):
>How about a meeting just outide Van's booth (the corner nearest the Red RV-
6T) on Saturday afternoon at >2:00 pm???
Sounds good... I'll try to be there.
-Kevin Vap
kvap@sky.net http://www.sky.net/~kvap
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Terence C. Gannon" <74267.3003(at)compuserve.com> |
There have been a couple of posts of the last day or two referring to the
RV-6T...how does this compare to the RV-6? Is there is significant difference
that I should be concerned about? Thanx for your help...
Terry in Calgary
"(Still) Waiting on Preview Plans"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larson, Joe" <Joseph.P.Larson(at)nmb.norwest.com> (Joe Larson) |
| Subject: | Additional questions |
Yesterday, I drilled & clecoed 1/2 of the HS skins. Next weekend, I intend
to do the other 1/2, countersink and rivet it all.
I have two questions:
1. Is there any reason I should dimple rather than countersink the HS skins.
The directions from Van's originally says to c'sink but they also
discuss dimpling. C'sinking LOOKS easier, assuming that I get the
micro-stop c'sink set correctly. (I'm also open to any warnings or
suggestions about this, in case there are any "gotchas".)
2. If I do c'sink, does c'sinking remove the need to deburr the c'sinked sides?
That is, can I cut my deburring requirements by 1/4? If not, do I deburr
before or after I c'sink?
3. The directions from Van's talks about using solid rivets with some pop
rivets. It looks like you can buck all but possibly a very small number
of the rivets. Specifically, I don't think there's room for a bucking bar
behind the tipmost rivet or two. I'm assuming there's nothing wrong with
bucking the bulk of the rivets and pulling those very few rivets that you
can't reach with a bucking bar. I'm also assuming I should figure out
which side is up and rivet that side first, as it'll be easier than the
second side.
It's really starting to look like an airplane part. This is so cool.
(For those of you who recognize "Joe Larson" but not this "nmb" email
address -- we all have a day job, right? Well, I have a week job...)
-Joe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "MIKE PILLA" <mpilla(at)ccsmtplink.espinc.com> |
Michael Graves
I'm still building my -4, but have some stick time in fixed and c/s
prop'ed RVs plus regular "spam cans". Also, I spoke with Larry
Vetterman at last years Frederick, MD RVForum about this very topic.
Larry's comments were the most telling. I forget how many hours he
had in his -4 with a fixed pitch prop - something on the order of 800
or so. Then, he added a c/s prop. He noticed a small improvement in
climb and cruise. However, when doing acro, he noticed a definite
*lack* of "crispness" with the c/s prop. He couldn't be any more
specific than that phrase and I do not know if he still flys behind
the c/s prop, or not.
My hangar mate, Claudio Tonini, has a c/s prop on his -4 and loves it.
Claudio does a bit of acro, but isn't into "precision" acro; Claudio
loves to take long trips and is into speed - wants a fast prop in
cruise without sacrificing climb...
The few hours I have in fixed and c/s RVs indicate that the fixed is
more than adequate from a performance point of view. However, since I
am building a -4, I like the idea of the extra weight of the c/s prop
up front to counter the rear seat passenger somewhat.
As the saying goes, "you pay your money and you take your chances"
:-)
Mike Pilla
pilla(at)espinc.com
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: c/s props
Date: 7/24/95 10:09 AM
Hi listers!
I am listening for good tidbits for when I start construction later.
I had decided to use a fixed pitch prop (no particular reason), when a fellow
builder suggested that a c/s prop is the only way to go. I would be interested
to hear other opinions on the subject. What about performance increase,
complexity to operate, reliability, maintenance,extra cost etc. Thanks in
advance for your opinions.
Mike Graves
RV-6A in a box on closet shelf
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Graves <mgraves(at)ptdcs2.intel.com> |
Terry wrote:
>
> There have been a couple of posts of the last day or two referring to the
> RV-6T...how does this compare to the RV-6? Is there is significant difference
> that I should be concerned about? Thanx for your help...
>
At a recent EAA meeting, Van described the -6T as a prototype for a primary trainer
intended for a south american military (If I recall correctly).
Mike Graves
RV-6A in box on closet shelf
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Bysinger <john.bysinger(at)mccaw.com> |
| Subject: | FW: RV4 inquiry (light flaming) |
I think that you'll have to be more specific than that. We have lots of
information relating to RV-4's and can help you out better if we knew what
you are looking for
----------
From: USHELO
Subject: RV4 inquiry
Date: Monday, July 24, 1995 5:21PM
I am searching for information relating to RV4 's.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Graves <mgraves(at)ptdcs2.intel.com> |
DPE (AKA gr8av8or) wrote:
> The engine has a lot to do with your decision of the CS prop or not. You
> didn't mention if you had already picked out the AC ENG of not. If you find
> the eng already set up with the hollow crank and gov., then maybe you are in
> business.
Does the engine have to have a hollow crank to work with C/S?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com (Ross Mickey ) |
| Subject: | Fwd: Additional questions |
In my opinion, dimple wherever possible. I dimple and lightly use a
hand deburring tool in the dimple to give a good clean edge to the
countersink. I think its the best of both worlds (more work though)
you get to keep the strengh of the extra material and get the clean
edge of a countersink.
I was able to buck all of my rivets using a small bucking bar
Ross Mickey
6A- Firewall construction
Subject: Additional questions
Yesterday, I drilled & clecoed 1/2 of the HS skins. Next weekend, I
intend
to do the other 1/2, countersink and rivet it all.
I have two questions:
1. Is there any reason I should dimple rather than countersink the HS
skins.
The directions from Van's originally says to c'sink but they also
discuss dimpling. C'sinking LOOKS easier, assuming that I get the
micro-stop c'sink set correctly. (I'm also open to any warnings or
suggestions about this, in case there are any "gotchas".)
2. If I do c'sink, does c'sinking remove the need to deburr the
c'sinked sides?
That is, can I cut my deburring requirements by 1/4? If not, do I
deburr
before or after I c'sink?
3. The directions from Van's talks about using solid rivets with some
pop
rivets. It looks like you can buck all but possibly a very small
number
of the rivets. Specifically, I don't think there's room for a
bucking bar
behind the tipmost rivet or two. I'm assuming there's nothing wrong
with
bucking the bulk of the rivets and pulling those very few rivets
that you
can't reach with a bucking bar. I'm also assuming I should figure
out
which side is up and rivet that side first, as it'll be easier than
the
second side.
It's really starting to look like an airplane part. This is so cool.
(For those of you who recognize "Joe Larson" but not this "nmb" email
address -- we all have a day job, right? Well, I have a week job...)
-Joe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com (Ross Mickey ) |
| Subject: | Fwd: rv-4 pitot line placement |
I substituted the aluminum tube for a plastic one. This worked well
for me but I also substituted the kit piyot for a piper blade type.
The local airplane parts store had the tubing and brass fittings.
Running the tube was easy using grommets through the ribs and using
rubber grommeted tie downs under the tank
Ross Mickey
6A - Firewall construction
Subject: rv-4 pitot line placement
OK, I've stared at my wing long enough. Would someone please clue me in
as to
how to run the pitot line that came with my kit the way that the plans
show it.
The pitot tube looks like it is just inboard of the tie down ring, and
the line
makes a sharp bend through the main rib, up through the spar, through
two nose
ribs and down under the tank. RIGHT!!! Where do you begin feeding and
bending
the line, tube end or tank end? I just don't see how you can feed the
tube and
bend it at the same time going up and down and around the ribs and
spar. What
other alternatives are there?
Thanks Mike Casmey , Minneapolis
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RUSS_NICHOLS_at_SAC__DATA__PROCESSING(at)fire.ca.gov |
>From RUSS_NICHOLS_at_SAC__DATA__PROCESSING Tue Jul 25 08:49:54 0700 1995 remote
from fire.ca.gov
From: RUSS_NICHOLS_at_SAC__DATA__PROCESSING(at)fire.ca.gov (RUSS NICHOLS)
Subject: drill press questions
It's time for me to buy my own drill press. I starting to feel guilty
about knocking on my neighbor's door with airplane pieces in my
hands...
Harbor Freight has a 13", 3/4 hp, floor-standing press for $159 (on
sale). It looks like a pretty good deal. The only thing I could see
that I didn't like was the method for changing the speed. It doesn't
have a handle to move the motor in and out for tension. You just push
and pull on the motor itself (it does have a small spring to assist
you).
How does the quality of Harbor's stuff (brand name on it is Central
Machinery) compare to Delta and Sears? Those seem to be the other
brands in my price range.
I 13" enough? That means only 6/5" to the center of the hole from the
edge of the piece. I'm guessing the only time this comes in to play
is on the instrument panel. I could be terribly wrong since I'm only
on the Horiz. stab.
Next step up is the 1hp, but it's $280. ($300 at Sears)
thanks,
,---.____________________ __ ______ :
/' \ / \ _-\ O \______ :
| Russ Nichols >---/ `---^ `-----' |:>
| russ_nichols(at)fire.ca.gov / |===== _- :
| RV-6 empenage / ( `---,-----==========--' :
| ,---.___________________/ (_ O __) ___/
|/' (_______) <___)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com (Ross Mickey ) |
| Subject: | Fwd: Fuel tank Advice needed |
---- Begin Forwarded Message
(8.6.12/SMI-4.1/Netcom)
I did my fuel tanks alone and found it not to be a problem. The
difficult part was putting the ribs and back baffle into place with the
proseal glopped on. I used a cradle as described by Dave in a message
posted today about prosealing. I was able to lean over the tank and
buck and rivet at the same time. Be sure to machine countersink the
skins where they join the back baffle. My plans were cut off at the
top and I dimpled. Caused me much grief. My tanks have passed the
soap suds/air test.
Ross Mickey
6A - Firewall construction
Subject: Fuel tank Advice needed
Have finished empennage, will soon be ordering wing kit. Would
appreciate
name, number or address of wing tank builders any of you builders have
had
experience with. I do all my building alone and don't think I'll be
able to
handle the gun, bar and proseal all at the same time. Comments
welcome.
CRazer2(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "A. Reichert" <reichera(at)clark.net> |
Yes. This supplies the oil under pressure to the prop governor.
On Tue, 25 Jul 1995, Michael Graves wrote:
> Does the engine have to have a hollow crank to work with C/S?
| Alan Reichert - Wannabe RV-6 Builder |
| Preview plans received! #24179 |
| Study...study...look for tools...study.... |
|---------------------------------------------|
| http://www.clark.net/pub/reichera/home.html |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dierks(at)austin.ibm.com |
From what I recall, the 6T was indeed to be able to build a certified aircraft
under the new light plane rules. I heard Van talk about it a Oshkosh last yr
and I think he described in in the newsletter also.
It is a 6A with some mods. The landing gear is flat spring gear (not tubular steel)
like on older Cessnas. This was done to be more repairable in the field.
The tail was also different. I think the HS is a simple rectangle (to be easier
to build). I heard on this net the VS is also larger.
He did not want anyone reading much into the 6T except he is experimenting at
making things easier to build and maintain (for flight schools, etc).
> >
>
> At a recent EAA meeting, Van described the -6T as a prototype for a primary trainer
intended for a south american military (If I recall correctly).
>
>
> Mike Graves
>
> RV-6A in box on closet shelf
>
Herman Dierks, Dept. E54S, AWSD Austin, Texas
mail: dierks(at)austin.ibm.com VM: DIERKS at AUSVM6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6junkie(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: WHO ARE WE ANYWAY??? |
My name is Gary Corde. My RV-6 (N211GC; s/n 21194) is about 99.9% complete.
Should be flying around the time Oshkosh starts. My wife (Malia) and our two
children (Kyle & Connor) live in Asbury, New Jersey. I am 32 years old and
make my living as an aviation insurance broker in New York city.
My RV is based at Alexandria Field in NJ. The aircraft was started in
October of 1990. It has a slide-back canopy, electric trim. auto-pilot, IFR
pannel, DJ Larsen interior, CD Player and a list of stuff that I can't even
remember. It is powered by a 160hp Lycoming turning a Performance 3-bladed
prop. I had the prop on a friends RV-4 and it was great....can't wait to fly
it on my -6.
This was the first aircraft that I have built. I had a lot of support from
local RV-ers. There are three other RV aircraft in my hangar. There are
about 3 more RV-4 flying in the area with another 4 or 5 other RV's going
together.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
>
> Does the engine have to have a hollow crank to work with C/S?
>
Yes.
Randall Henderson
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michelle J Tinckler <mjt(at)unixg.ubc.ca> |
Sorry, but this is inteded for Ken Hitchmough who will browse this file.
Ken, I was unable to successfully send a reply to your mailbox for some
reason, but I am very interested in your contact for engine as you stated.
You can try to get me at the mailbox shown for Michelle J. Tinckler as I
am using my daughter's university acct on this mailbox.I am at 604 596-0239
if that helps. please try again..Austin Tinckler in Vancouver.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
> There have been a couple of posts of the last day or two referring to the
> RV-6T...how does this compare to the RV-6? Is there is significant difference
> that I should be concerned about? Thanx for your help...
The RV-6T and RV-6B are both one of a kind prototypes that were built
to try out some different mods for various reasons. They are both
basically RV-6As but with some differences, including taller canopy,
different tails, and different main landing gear. None of the major mods
on these models are available to us kit builders.
Randall Henderson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gasobek(at)CCGATE.HAC.COM |
Van's RV-6 manual list pro's and con's for Constant Speed vs Fixed
pitch props. The following info is some of my opinions and also were
expressed by Alan Tolle in a talk he gave at an EAA chapter 92
meeting.
It takes several wood props to find the right pitch. All fixed pitch
props are a compromise in climb vs cruise. The wood prop is light.
Wood props require re-torqueing every 25 flight hours and at every
seasonal change. Wood props can erode in the rain and require
replacement or refinishing. Alan Tolle reports that his wood props
would last about 500 hours before requiring replacement. (They can be
refinished instead of replacement.) Wood props require a higher idle
RPM since the lower weight has little initeria (fly wheel effect) for
the engine. Most RV's may ride the brakes while taxing because of the
trust produced at idle. Wood props generally are thicker airfoil
blade and are slightly less efficient. Alan Tolle reports 1 1/2
gallon more fuel flow at the same speed with the wood prop. When
power is reduced for decent, the wood prop does not slow the aircraft
down and allow for a step decent. A wood prop is about $600 + $200
for an extension. The fixed pitch metal prop that Van's sells is about
$1700.
Constant Speed props change pitch for the best climb and the most
efficient cruise. The weight of the prop acts as a flywheel to make
the idle appear smoother. Taxi will not require as much brake action
since at idle the blades are in a flat pitch an produce little thrust.
Take off roll will be shortest and rate of climb will be the highest
with the C.S. The Constant Speed prop can reach full rated horsepower
of the engine that is available at 2700. A fixed pitch prop will
typical only produce 2200 to 2300 static rpm. This will not allow the
engine to produce full horsepower. At cruise, the throttle is left
full forward (the most efficient position for the carburetor) and the
blue rpm control is pulled back to a lower rpm setting. This produces
the same power, less fuel burn, less noise than the fixed pitch prop.
When flying in rain, the engine power setting does not need to change.
The metal prop does not have any erosion In decent, the rpm is
pushed all the way forward and the throttle closed part way. This
caused the prop to go to a flat pitch and increase drag. This can be
seen by 2 RV-4s flying in formation. Identical engines different
props. The fixed pitch keeps on going, the C.S. backs away and
descends at greater than 1000 fpm. This technique should reduce shock
cooling on the engine. At cruise settings, Alan Tolle reports a 1 1/2
gph fuel savings. Cost of C.S. prop: $4K, governor $850 new. TBO:
2000 hours. TBO X 1.5 GPH X $2 / gal = $6K fuel savings over the life
of the prop.
The above info is my opinion on why I have a constant speed prop.
Other view points are invited. For more info on C.S. props, please
read past articles in Sport Aviation and Van's RVator on the CAFE 400
prop comparison test using Van's prototype RV-6. There is much
written on this subject. Again, a solid crank cannot have a C.S. prop.
Gary
RV-6 20480 N-157GS
1st flight planned for December 1995
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6junkie(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | The Easy Way To Pro-Seal |
OK...here it is...the easy and clean way to pro-seal your tanks (and the
hinges on the cowling and the firewall to the fuselage skins)!
First. DON'T USE PRO-SEAL. What? How can this be? Simple. Pro Seal is a
just a generic term that we RV-ers use for Class A and Class B, two part
polysulfide based Aircraft Fuel Tank Sealant. The product that I recommend
(used on many RV's so far) is a product made by CHEMSEAL and distributed by
SEAL PACK. The difference between pro-seal and the Seal Pack product is how
it is mixed and applied. The Seal-Pack product comes in 2 1/2 or 6 oz tubes
and is mixed IN THE TUBE! It is than applied to the ribs using a caulking
gun straight from the tube. No measuring, mixing with sticks or mess. The
product you want is known as CS3204. There is a sub-number used for the
work-life time. Example: CS3204-B2 has a working time of 2 hours. B1/2 is
half an hour. The B2 is the best way to go in that is gives you ample work
time. Don't order the stuff until you need it because it has a self life of 6
to 9 months.
Second. Ware multiple pairs of VINYL Gloves. The latex type have a powder
on them that will get into the sealant. Very Bad. As your gloves get
gooped-up, remove one layer to expose a clean pair. Neat and Clean.
Third. Don't use MEK! Use Dupont Gun and Equipment Cleaner (I forget the
number off- hand). Cleans great and isn't as toxic as MEK.
Forth. If you want to make sure that your tanks don't leak...slosh 'em.
Once again, Seal Pack has a product that is AVFUEL/AUTOFUEL Safe....CS3600.
Comes in quart cans.
Last. Don't use a permanent sealant on those things that you might need to
remove like access covers and fuel sending units. Order a low adhesive like
CS3300B1/2. Seals well but can be removed (with some effort).
Seal Pack can be reached at (316) 942-6211; Wichita Kansas. The people there
a very helpful and knowledgeable and will send out (or fax) tech info if you
ask. Prices are about $15 for 6 oz and $12 for 2 1/2 oz. You will need 4
ea. of the 6 oz CS3204B2, 2 ea. of the 2 1/2 oz, 1 ea. of the 2 1/2 oz.
CS3300B2 and two quarts of the CS3600 to finish two wing tanks. Use two of
the 6 oz for each main tank and one 2 1/2 oz for the rear baffle. Wait to due
the rear baffle until the main tanks set-up and apply the slosh right to the
ribs. After the rear baffle is attached, slosh the entire tank. There will
be NO drainage. Trust me!
It isn't the cheapest way to go but you will have a sealant that is mixed
correctly and will produce the best results with the least amount of
clean-up.
Good luck
Gary Corde
RV-6 N211GC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "A. Reichert" <reichera(at)clark.net> |
| Subject: | Re: WHO ARE WE ANYWAY??? |
Gary's is the first (that I recall) running a 3-bladed prop. Any one else?
- Alan
On Tue, 25 Jul 1995 aol.com!RV6junkie(at)matronics.com wrote:
> remember. It is powered by a 160hp Lycoming turning a Performance 3-bladed
> prop. I had the prop on a friends RV-4 and it was great....can't wait to fly
> it on my -6.
| Alan Reichert - Wannabe RV-6 Builder |
| Preview plans received! #24179 |
| Study...study...look for tools...study.... |
|---------------------------------------------|
| http://www.clark.net/pub/reichera/home.html |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Wentz <Don_Wentz(at)ccm2.hf.intel.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Additional questions |
Joe, we have discussed this at length, but you may be new to the list:
Don't countersink ANYTHiNG that you can dimple. Period.
Countersinking 'looks' easier but is not due to the difficulty in getting
consistency and correct depth.
Many flying RVs have cosmetic rivet problems on the HS due to machine
countersunk rivets.
Use the Cleaveland Tools dimple dies for skins (the best I've seen).
Don't drill too far into the tips, it is easier to rivet this way.
The Duck, N790DW, 180HP RV-6, #20369
>Yesterday, I drilled & clecoed 1/2 of the HS skins. Next weekend, I intend
>to do the other 1/2, countersink and rivet it all.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | leo(at)icn.su.OZ.AU (Leo Davies) |
| Subject: | Firewall/Engine mount |
I am currently building the firewall for a 6A. The tooling holes in the
firewall are supposed to match with the location of the engine mount bolts
but are too close together by 1/8". I have my engine mount and sure enough
when you fit it over the holes they are near the inner margins of the mount
bolt location tubes rather than centered. A friend building a 6 had the
same mismatch. Is this a problem with the jigging at Van's (mount is correct
to spec) or are we missing something like the mount is meant to be under
slight compression when fitted?
On another matter, if any Australian RVer on the list has Neil Bell's phone
number I have his engine mount (shipped with my kit) but no way to get in touch.
Cheers,
Leo Davies
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com (Ross Mickey ) |
Subject: drill press questions
I bought one of these and have found it to be satisfactory. The only
problem is with cutting lighting holes. The motor is not very strong
and bobs down if you try to cut to fast. Since I haven't had to do
much of this, it hasn't been a real problem. Changing gears and
tighting the motor belt are both very easy. I haven't encountered any
situation where the distance between the bit and drill press to be a
problem.
Ross Mickey
6-A Firewall construction
It's time for me to buy my own drill press. I starting to feel
guilty
about knocking on my neighbor's door with airplane pieces in my
hands...
Harbor Freight has a 13", 3/4 hp, floor-standing press for $159
(on
sale). It looks like a pretty good deal. The only thing I could
see
that I didn't like was the method for changing the speed. It
doesn't
have a handle to move the motor in and out for tension. You just
push
and pull on the motor itself (it does have a small spring to
assist
you).
How does the quality of Harbor's stuff (brand name on it is
July 06, 1995 - July 25, 1995
RV-Archive.digest.vol-an