RV-Archive.digest.vol-ao
July 25, 1995 - August 14, 1995
Central
Machinery) compare to Delta and Sears? Those seem to be the other
brands in my price range.
I 13" enough? That means only 6/5" to the center of the hole from
the
edge of the piece. I'm guessing the only time this comes in to
play
is on the instrument panel. I could be terribly wrong since I'm
only
on the Horiz. stab.
Next step up is the 1hp, but it's $280. ($300 at Sears)
thanks,
,---.____________________ __ ______ :
/' \ / \ _-\ O \______ :
| Russ Nichols >---/ `---^ `-----'
|:>
| russ_nichols(at)fire.ca.gov / |===== _- :
| RV-6 empenage / ( `---,-----==========--' :
| ,---.___________________/ (_ O __) ___/
|/' (_______) <___)
________________________________________________________________________________
rv-list(at)matronics.com
| From: | ammeterj(at)ammeterj.seanet.com (John Ammeter) |
The crankshaft has to be hollow. ALSO, there has to be a hole drilled
through the front part of the crank for the oil to reach the inside of the
crank. Don't make the same mistake I did. My engine, O-320 E2A, should
have the proper crank for conversion to a C/S prop. I even called the
Lycoming gurus to verify that. After purchasing a C/S prop, governor,
spinner, controls, etc, I knocked out the plug in the front of the crank.
The crank was hollow but it had not been drilled cross wise. There should
have been a pipe/tube at a 90 degree angle to the crank in the middle of the
crankshaft. NOTHING!!!! After saying a few appropriate comments I sat down
and whimpered a lot.
To make a long story short, I found that the original owner (and A & P) when
doing a major overhaul on the engine replaced the crankshaft. He used the
wrong crankshaft for the engine. When I contacted him to discuss his error
and what it cost me his comment was "what do you expect me to do?" When I
said he could buy me a new crank he only laughed.
So---- what's the moral of this story? Don't assume that a hollow
crankshaft is enough. Make sure you can use a C/S prop if that is what you
really want. Check out that crank!!!!
>DPE (AKA gr8av8or) wrote:
>
>
>> The engine has a lot to do with your decision of the CS prop or not. You
>> didn't mention if you had already picked out the AC ENG of not. If you find
>> the eng already set up with the hollow crank and gov., then maybe you are in
>> business.
>
>Does the engine have to have a hollow crank to work with C/S?
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: Fwd: Fuel tank Advice needed |
> Be sure to machine countersink the
> skins where they join the back baffle. My plans were cut off at the
> top and I dimpled. Caused me much grief. My tanks have passed the
> soap suds/air test.
>
> Ross Mickey
I machine c-sunk the baffle to skin holes per the plans on my left
tank, but subsequently talked to several people who had either
mistakenly or intentionally dimpled theirs and said it came out ok, so
on my right tank I dimpled them. I had to be extra careful drilling the
holes so they wouldn't come out too close to the doubler or baffle web,
and it came out fine. I'm glad I did it that way, for strength,
sealing, and consistency. I wish I'd done the left tank that way.
What part of it caused you grief Ross?
Randall Henderson
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ammeterj(at)ammeterj.seanet.com (John Ammeter) |
| Subject: | Re: Tail Wagging... |
Stop the tail wagging??!! Would you cut out a dogs barker? The RV wags its
tail because it's HAPPY!!
>
> I was talking with a friend of mine who has a hanger mate with an
> RV-6. He said he has a few hours in the bird and does notice a little
> tail wagging action. He was suggested the aircraft could us a little
> more tail area back there. Does any one know if the RV-6T with it's
> bigger tail section has overcome the wagging phenomenon?
>
> Chris.
> RV-6 #21390
> San Jose CA
>
________________________________________________________________________________
rv-list(at)matronics.com
| From: | ammeterj(at)ammeterj.seanet.com (John Ammeter) |
That drill press sounds fine; I built my RV-6 using a table model drill
press. There's only 4 1/8" clearance between the drill bit and the post.
Since the ribs now come with the lightening holes drilled/punched already
you shouldn't have any need for more than that. The instrument panel holes
should be cut out with a knockout punch. You can purchase a punch and a
template for less than $100.00. That sounds like a lot but when you see
your completed panel you'll appreciate it. The cost of the table model is
less than $100.00; save the extra money for instruments.
fire.ca.gov!RUSS_NICHOLS_at_SAC__DATA__PROCESSING(at)matronics.com wrote:
>>From RUSS_NICHOLS_at_SAC__DATA__PROCESSING Tue Jul 25 08:49:54 0700 1995
remote from fire.ca.gov
>Received: from ccMail by ccgate.fire.ca.gov
>Mime-Version: 1.0
>Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 08:49:54 -0700
>Message-ID: <01512100(at)fire.ca.gov>
>From: RUSS_NICHOLS_at_SAC__DATA__PROCESSING(at)fire.ca.gov (RUSS NICHOLS)
>Subject: drill press questions
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
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>
>
> It's time for me to buy my own drill press. I starting to feel guilty
> about knocking on my neighbor's door with airplane pieces in my
> hands...
>
> Harbor Freight has a 13", 3/4 hp, floor-standing press for $159 (on
> sale). It looks like a pretty good deal. The only thing I could see
> that I didn't like was the method for changing the speed. It doesn't
> have a handle to move the motor in and out for tension. You just push
> and pull on the motor itself (it does have a small spring to assist
> you).
>
> How does the quality of Harbor's stuff (brand name on it is Central
> Machinery) compare to Delta and Sears? Those seem to be the other
> brands in my price range.
>
> I 13" enough? That means only 6/5" to the center of the hole from the
> edge of the piece. I'm guessing the only time this comes in to play
> is on the instrument panel. I could be terribly wrong since I'm only
> on the Horiz. stab.
>
> Next step up is the 1hp, but it's $280. ($300 at Sears)
>
> thanks,
>
>
> ,---.____________________ __ ______ :
> /' \ / \ _-\ O \______ :
> | Russ Nichols >---/ `---^ `-----' |:>
> | russ_nichols(at)fire.ca.gov / |===== _- :
> | RV-6 empenage / ( `---,-----==========--' :
> | ,---.___________________/ (_ O __) ___/
> |/' (_______) <___)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Wentz <Don_Wentz(at)ccm2.hf.intel.com> |
Herman, you're actually confusing the -6B with the -6T. The -6T was the
prototype for several changes made for the Nigerian Airforce trainer, of which
a factory (not affiliated with Van's) is building 100 or so in Nigeria. I saw
a photo of 31 completed "Air Beetles" as they are called parked in a
triangular formation on a ramp. Impressive!!! They are tri-gear, taller
canopy to accomodate military helmets, larger/counterweighted VS/rudder,
different gear, 180hp c/s. There may be other minor changes, not sure.
The RV-6B is what you described below - basically a test of some different
ways to do some things, some of which worked, some didn't.
BTW, the RV-6T is Red with yellow stripe, the RV-6B is yellow with red stripe,
160hp, Sensenich fixed metal prop.
The Duck, N790DW, 180HP RV-6, #20369
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From what I recall, the 6T was indeed to be able to build a certified aircraft
under the new light plane rules. I heard Van talk about it a Oshkosh last yr
and I think he described in in the newsletter also.
It is a 6A with some mods. The landing gear is flat spring gear (not
tubular steel)
like on older Cessnas. This was done to be more repairable in the field.
The tail was also different. I think the HS is a simple rectangle
(to be easier
to build). I heard on this net the VS is also larger.
He did not want anyone reading much into the 6T except he is experimenting at
making things easier to build and maintain (for flight schools, etc).
> >
>
> At a recent EAA meeting, Van described the -6T as a prototype for
a primary trainer intended for a south american military (If I recall
correctly).
>
>
> Mike Graves
>
> RV-6A in box on closet shelf
>
Herman Dierks, Dept. E54S, AWSD Austin, Texas
mail: dierks(at)austin.ibm.com VM: DIERKS at AUSVM6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kevin E. Vap" <kvap(at)solar.sky.net> |
-- [ From: Kevin E. Vap * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] --
Terry wrote:
>
> There have been a couple of posts of the last day or two referring to the
> RV-6T...how does this compare to the RV-6? Is there is significant
difference
> that I should be concerned about? Thanx for your help...
>
As Mike said, it is a special version for foreign military. Differences
include larger tail, taller canopy (for helmets). I'm not sure what else,
but I'm sure Randall and Don and others could fill in more details. It is
also the main tri-cycle gear demo plane they use for shows & etc.
- Kevin Vap
kvap@sky.net http://www.sky.net/~kvap
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gtyler(at)southwind.net (Greg Tyler) |
I am Greg Tyler, from Derby, Kansas - near the "Air Capital of the World"
(Wichita) and have plans to build a RV-6. (I have finally convinced my wife
that this is really going to happen! :^) I will be leaving for Oshkosh on
Friday morning - taking the low route - in a friends van. Unfortunately, we
will be staying with the Q-2 bunch. I am hoping to meet some of the other
rv-lister's if Sat. @ 2:00 near the RV-6T is still good? I am currently
working on building a tool collection. I have a slight advantage since
Boeing surplus sales is nearby. (new and some experienced Clecos for .25
ea!) I still havn't ordered my tail kit but hope to soon.
Greg Tyler
gtyler(at)southwind.net
Greg Tyler
gtyler(at)southwind.net
RV-6 S/N 23685
Derby, KS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Terence C. Gannon" <74267.3003(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Who Are We Anyway? |
Dear RV-Listers -- I'm delighted (and excited) to report that my Preview Plans
and Construction Manual showed today, and I now have my official Van's S/N
(noted below). It's the first basic step, but somehow, I feel, I'm underway!
Something that all you polite 'Listers forgot to mention...IT LOOKS PRETTY
DARNED COMPLICATED FOR GOSH SAKES! :-) :-)
Seriously, though, it's a little overwhelming, but I'm looking forward to
ripping into this stuff, at which point I'm sure it'll all start to make sense.
I'm sure I'll have lots of questions for you folks, and I thank you all again,
for your help.
To answer John Ammeter's question of a little while back, here's my data;
Name: Terry Gannon
Spouse: Michelle (no children)
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada (CYYC and CYBW)
Email: Compuserve 74267,3003 or Internet 74267.3003(at)compuserve.com
Occupation: Team Leader, Information Services,
Sceptre Resources Limited
RV-6: Preview Plans, S/N 24414. Hopefully attending the Builder's
Course in September, kit purchase at the same time.
Flying Exp: I currently have my Private License, and about 80 hrs.
Other: Building is something that I have dreamed about since I was
about fifteen, which is getting on for 20 years now. My
inspiration at
that time was Peter Garrison's Melmoth (sp?),
particularly after it flew
the Atlantic (whatever happened to it?). Current
interest inspired by
the remarkable determination of Delmar Benjamin in
building the
GeeBee. His work is a testament to what's possible if
you REALLY
believe in something.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Fwd: WHO ARE WE [1] |
jim and jackie eastburn (jimnjac)
hillsboro or. (two miles north of van's)
rv-4 tail section under const.
firefighter (i get to drive the fire engine) wife, paramedic
---------------------
From: aol.com!JerryFlyRV(at)matronics.com
Date: 95-07-23 23:47:38 EDT
Jerry Springer
Hillsboro, OR ( 6 mi from Van's)
RV-6 s/n 20241 N906GS
Third customer built RV-6 to fly
Tip-up, Elec flaps, Elec trim, Vac Gyros,
Navaid autopilot, Rocky MTN. Encoder
O-360 A4A,Warnke Prop
First Flight July 14, 1989
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6junkie(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | The Easy Way To Pro-Seal |
OK...here it is...the easy and clean way to pro-seal your tanks (and the
hinges on the cowling and the firewall to the fuselage skins)!
First. DON'T USE PRO-SEAL. What? How can this be? Simple. Pro Seal is a
just a generic term that we RV-ers use for Class A and Class B, two part
polysulfide based Aircraft Fuel Tank Sealant. The product that I recommend
(used on many RV's so far) is a product made by CHEMSEAL and distributed by
SEAL PACK. The difference between pro-seal and the Seal Pack product is how
it is mixed and applied. The Seal-Pack product comes in 2 1/2 or 6 oz tubes
and is mixed IN THE TUBE! It is than applied to the ribs using a caulking
gun straight from the tube. No measuring, mixing with sticks or mess. The
product you want is known as CS3204. There is a sub-number used for the
work-life time. Example: CS3204-B2 has a working time of 2 hours. B1/2 is
half an hour. The B2 is the best way to go in that is gives you ample work
time. Don't order the stuff until you need it because it has a self life of 6
to 9 months.
Second. Ware multiple pairs of VINYL Gloves. The latex type have a powder
on them that will get into the sealant. Very Bad. As your gloves get
gooped-up, remove one layer to expose a clean pair. Neat and Clean.
Third. Don't use MEK! Use Dupont Gun and Equipment Cleaner (I forget the
number off- hand). Cleans great and isn't as toxic as MEK.
Forth. If you want to make sure that your tanks don't leak...slosh 'em.
Once again, Seal Pack has a product that is AVFUEL/AUTOFUEL Safe....CS3600.
Comes in quart cans.
Last. Don't use a permanent sealant on those things that you might need to
remove like access covers and fuel sending units. Order a low adhesive like
CS3300B1/2. Seals well but can be removed (with some effort).
Seal Pack can be reached at (316) 942-6211; Wichita Kansas. The people there
a very helpful and knowledgeable and will send out (or fax) tech info if you
ask. Prices are about $15 for 6 oz and $12 for 2 1/2 oz. You will need 4
ea. of the 6 oz CS3204B2, 2 ea. of the 2 1/2 oz, 1 ea. of the 2 1/2 oz.
CS3300B2 and two quarts of the CS3600 to finish two wing tanks. Use two of
the 6 oz for each main tank and one 2 1/2 oz for the rear baffle. Wait to due
the rear baffle until the main tanks set-up and apply the slosh right to the
ribs. After the rear baffle is attached, slosh the entire tank. There will
be NO drainage. Trust me!
It isn't the cheapest way to go but you will have a sealant that is mixed
correctly and will produce the best results with the least amount of
clean-up.
Good luck
Gary Corde
RV-6 N211GC
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Additional Questions |
Just finished my tail. Countersink, its easier, get the best one from
CAT3Tools, it's worth the extra $. Set the countersink slightly (very) below
the skin surface, when the rivet is set it will expand slightly and produce a
flush and usually perfect fit. Deburr every hole on both sides when
dimpling, countersinking will cut the crumbs away. Even a small crumb of
aluminum can cause a loose fit. Probably won't amount to a hill of beans but
some night at 10k feet over the Rocky Mountains you'll remember every one of
the imperfections and unburred holes. As far as the pop rivets, get
Orndorferes video, he explains how to easily complete the entire HS w/o pops.
I did it first time with no probs. just don't try to place any rivet on the
extreme nose end of the center ribs. Finally, if you watch the video, it
doesn't really matter which side you do first. good luck
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Wentz <Don_Wentz(at)ccm2.hf.intel.com> |
Russ, I have the table-top version of one from H-F. Obviously it is NOT
machine shop quality, but has been totally adequate. Changing speeds is
not that bad.
The reach was OK for most things.
The Duck, N790DW, 180HP RV-6, #20369
>Harbor Freight has a 13", 3/4 hp, floor-standing press for $159 (on
>sale). It looks like a pretty good deal. The only thing I could see
>that I didn't like was the method for changing the speed. It doesn't
>have a handle to move the motor in and out for tension. You just push
>and pull on the motor itself (it does have a small spring to assist
>you).
>How does the quality of Harbor's stuff (brand name on it is Central
>Machinery) compare to Delta and Sears? Those seem to be the other
>brands in my price range.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com (Ross Mickey ) |
| Subject: | Re: Fwd: Re: Fwd: Fuel tank Advice needed |
Subject: Re: Fwd: Fuel tank Advice needed
When I prosealed, the dimple countersinking has more curves, ie more
places that need to line up right in order to get a good tight fit. I
had leaks through the back baffle which I could only correct by cutting
5" holes at the bottom of each bay (on the baffle) applying proseal to
the inside seams and then sealing the holes. This was shown in a past
RVator for solving a slosh problem. The process sounds horrendous, but
after I bit the bullet and stopped fretting, it went pretty well. At
least my tanks don't leak!!
Ross Mickey
> Be sure to machine countersink the
> skins where they join the back baffle. My plans were cut off at the
> top and I dimpled. Caused me much grief. My tanks have passed the
> soap suds/air test.
>
> Ross Mickey
I machine c-sunk the baffle to skin holes per the plans on my left
tank, but subsequently talked to several people who had either
mistakenly or intentionally dimpled theirs and said it came out ok, so
on my right tank I dimpled them. I had to be extra careful drilling the
holes so they wouldn't come out too close to the doubler or baffle web,
and it came out fine. I'm glad I did it that way, for strength,
sealing, and consistency. I wish I'd done the left tank that way.
What part of it caused you grief Ross?
Randall Henderson
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "MIKE PILLA" <mpilla(at)ccsmtplink.espinc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Who Are We Anyway? |
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Who Are We Anyway?
InternetLink
Date: 7/26/95 1:18 AM
----- snip -----
My inspiration at that time was Peter Garrison's Melmoth (sp?), particularly
after it flew the Atlantic (whatever happened to it?).
Unfortunately, Peter's bird was destroyed several years ago; Peter was
OK. He was waiting to depart a runway (forget where) when a landing
plane "plopped" down on his bird. Totaled, sigh!
I haven't followed his new plane design nor progress for quite some
time; hopefully someone else can provide an update.
Mike Pilla
pilla(at)espinc.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JIM SCHMIDT <JIM.SCHMIDT(at)mail.mei.com> |
| Subject: | Pro-Sealing isn't so bad -Reply |
Dave
Did Scott put pro-seal on the skin also?
Did you put the Pro-seal over the rivet
heads after bucking?
>>> David A. Barnhart
07/24/95 02:15pm >>>
I am writing this after just completing the
pro-sealing of the inner ribs in my left
fuel tank. It was NOT the horrible task
that a lot of people make it out to be. Of
course, I had excellent help and guidance.
Scott McDaniels of Arizona Aerocrafters
has built several RV's, and quite a few
tanks. His own RV-6A won awards at
Copperstate a few years ago when he entered
it. Far a small fee, Scott basically
allowed me to help him while he sealed my
tank ribs. Because the job turned out to
be a piece of cake, I thought I would
describe a few important things I learned
today from Scott.
The cradle:
Scott's cradle does not have a base. It is
simply two upgrights, each with a
leading-edge-shaped cutout. Each upright
is clamped to a very low sawhorse. The top
of each sawhorse is only about 24 inches
high. This allows the rivet bucker to
stand and easility buck the rivets. The
riveter can comfortably sit in a chair and
drive the rivets. And with no crosspiece
or base to get in the way, driving those
frontmost few rivets was not a problem.
Scott used the rivet gun and I used the
bucking bar.
Pro-Seal:
Scott uses only TWO TABLESPOONS of pro-seal
per rib. This was more than enough, and he
mixed up only enough at one time to do a
single rib. The pro-seal was applied to
the rib flange with a popsicle stick, and a
cross-section of the rib flange and
pro-seal looks like:
-----------
/ \
<-------Pro-seal
/ \
----------------- <-- rib
flange
|
|
|Rib Web
|
By the way, we applied no
pro-seal to the nose section of the inner
ribs because there are no rivets there
anyway. While I held the skin apart, Scott
inserted the rib into the tank. That way
none of the pro-seal would get scraped off
during the insertion process.
When we did this, we had ALL the ribs
clecoed in the tank. We simply removed one
rib at a time, pro-sealed and riveted it,
and went on to the next one.
Riveting:
Scott riveted, I bucked. Yawn.
Yes, we used latex gloves, but not many.
Yes, we used MEK, but not much.
Guys, this was easy. The two key
elemments were the cradle (low and with to
base) and using just enough pro-seal to do
the job.
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart rv-6 sn 23744
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
> Van's RV-6 manual list pro's and con's for Constant Speed vs Fixed
> pitch props. The following info is some of my opinions and also were
> expressed by Alan Tolle in a talk he gave at an EAA chapter 92
> meeting.
>
[Good discussion of the relative merits of CS vs Wood props deleted]
>
> Gary
I had planned on a CS prop all along, and the Sun-n-Fun trip with Van's
crew really reaffirmed that. The trip out was with Bill Benedict in the
180hp/CS prop equipped RV-6T, and I returned with Andy Hanna in the
160hp/fixed pitch Sensenich (metal) prop equipped RV-6B. Granted, they
are different airplanes, and the RV-6T has 20 more HP, but I think a
large portion of the extra performance and utility in the RV-6T can be
attributed to the prop.
I had always figured a CS prop would be "nice to have" so you can get
off the ground faster and climb out steeper, and still have good
cruise. But what I didn't realize was just how much extra utility it
gives you in several other flight regimes. When climbing up at altitude
for example, the Red RV-6T seemed to effortlessly drift up through a
hole in the clouds, while the yellow RV-6B seemed to be clawing for
altitude by comparison, and was heating up pretty good as well.
Going DOWN it was a BIG help -- dropping through a hole in the
clouds was a piece of cake in the RV-6T, just push the nose down and
pull the power and the prop flattens out and acts like a big speed
brake. Doing a similar maneuver in the RV-6T you'd wind up too much
speed, and we instead had to set up as if for landing, dragging it on
the prop till we got to the hole, and then pull the power, drop the
flaps, and sink on through (it was a pretty small hole).
Same thing goes for slowing down in the pattern -- much easier with a
CS prop, and again you can take advantage of the "speed brake" effect
and drop it in at a higher sink rate.
CS props are also very nice when doing aerobatics -- you don't have
to worry about overspeeding the engine when you drop into a dive.
Other than the initial cost, the only problem I see with a CS prop,
especially in my early days of wringing out the airplane, is the
REPLACEMENT COST. It's one thing to have to make that one-time
investment, but I'd really hate doing it a second time if I dinged it.
Also if you get a prop strike with a metal vs wood prop you're a lot
more likely to damage the engine. I guess I'll just have to not ding
it!
Randall Henderson
RV-6
Randall Henderson
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | carl(at)drcpdx.stt3.com |
| Subject: | drill press questions |
Russ -
I bought a drill press from Harbor Freight similar to the one you are
contemplating (3/4 hp, bench mount, 16 speeds, 14" reach I think).
The quality is not as good as a Sears or Delta, etc. It is made in
China. On the bolts that attach the tower to the base the bolt threads
were very loose in the threads in the base (I bought some longer bolts
and puts nuts on the bottom side of the base). The motor pulley was not
in line with the idler and spindle pulleys and I had to reposition it
to prevent belt twisting. General movement does not feel as smooth as
the other brands. Otherwise it seems to run true with no problems.
Note you do need a drill press that turns as slow as possible, certainly
less that 500 rpm. Most of the other lower priced drill presses have a
slow speed of about 600 rpm.
The Harbor Freight press is satisfactory for building an RV but if you
want a nice tool you can use for years to come, spend more and get a
better one; I wish I had.
Carl Weston
RV-6 23876 on empennage control surfaces
wing kit on order
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
I was just looking over my old mail and realized I hadn't responded
to this yet. In case you haven't figured it out yet, just
go to "news:rec.aviation.homebuilt".
Randall
> I have seen several references to rec.aviation.homebuilt. Do you know
> how to get there using netscape?
>
> Jerald
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Wentz <Don_Wentz(at)ccm2.hf.intel.com> |
I test-flew Matt Dralle's 3-blade Catto prop (for his unfinished RV-4) last
summer in Livermore. It sounded 'funny' compared to my 2 blade Warnke, but that
is just because I am used to the sound of mine. People on the outside said it
was quieter.
My prop is a cruise prop with not very good climb performance. Matt's prop
climbed much better and was about 5mph faster at the top end. However, it is
likely that it would either cruise much slower or at much higher fuel burn, as
it turned 2850 rpm flat out compared to mine at 2550. I have 180hp and a local
Long Easy running a 170hp 320 with a similar 3-blade Catto prop was shocked that
we were about even on top speed.
I guess you can make your own conclusions: If performance means more than
economy, then Matt's prop worked well.
As a side note, I have never been satisfied with the climb performance of my
prop (73L x 72p). It is a great cruiser, I usually cruise at 2450 and burn less
fuel than 0-320 equipped RVs. But I want more pull so I sent it back for Bernie
to take 1" of pitch out. It climbs better and I can get almost 2650 flat-out,
but I want more, so last night Doug Miner helped me take 1" off the length. We
think this will increase rpm almost 100. I'll let you know what happens.
My RV-6 was built for a c/s prop, but I got tired of spending $$ and didn't get
one. I expect that eventually I will make the change, but am fine with the wood
for now.
BTW, the prop summary that Gary did was very good, although there are some who
will argue the fuel burn subject, and the importance of lighter weight is a big
deal to some flyers.
The Duck, N790DW, 180HP RV-6, #20369
>Gary's is the first (that I recall) running a 3-bladed prop. Any one else?
>- Alan
>On Tue, 25 Jul 1995 aol.com!RV6junkie(at)matronics.com wrote:
> remember. It is powered by a 160hp Lycoming turning a Performance 3-bladed
> prop. I had the prop on a friends RV-4 and it was great....can't wait to fly
> it on my -6.
| Alan Reichert - Wannabe RV-6 Builder |
| Preview plans received! #24179 |
| Study...study...look for tools...study.... |
|---------------------------------------------|
| http://www.clark.net/pub/reichera/home.html |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Wentz <Don_Wentz(at)ccm2.hf.intel.com> |
| Subject: | Re[2]: Fwd: Fuel tank Advice needed |
I dimpled mine and had no problem in assembly and now 200hrs without
leaks...
The Duck, N790DW, 180HP RV-6, #20369
>When I prosealed, the dimple countersinking has more curves, ie more
>places that need to line up right in order to get a good tight fit. I
>had leaks through the back baffle which I could only correct by cutting
>5" holes at the bottom of each bay (on the baffle) applying proseal to
>the inside seams and then sealing the holes. This was shown in a past
>RVator for solving a slosh problem. The process sounds horrendous, but
>after I bit the bullet and stopped fretting, it went pretty well. At
>least my tanks don't leak!!
>Ross Mickey
> Be sure to machine countersink the
> skins where they join the back baffle. My plans were cut off at the
> top and I dimpled. Caused me much grief. My tanks have passed the
> soap suds/air test.
>
> Ross Mickey
I machine c-sunk the baffle to skin holes per the plans on my left
tank, but subsequently talked to several people who had either
mistakenly or intentionally dimpled theirs and said it came out ok, so
on my right tank I dimpled them. I had to be extra careful drilling the
holes so they wouldn't come out too close to the doubler or baffle web,
and it came out fine. I'm glad I did it that way, for strength,
sealing, and consistency. I wish I'd done the left tank that way.
What part of it caused you grief Ross?
Randall Henderson
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Graves <mgraves(at)ptdcs2.intel.com> |
Guys,
Thank you Randall and others for the info on c/s props. It seems that the
advantages outweigh the disadvantages. I will look into it furthers to see
if it is a viable option for me.
Mike Graves
RV-6A in box on closet shelf
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com (Ross Mickey ) |
| Subject: | Re: Fwd: Re: C.S. Props. |
For a more esoteric (I'll have to read it a few more times to really
get it!!) Se the September 1995 issue of Kitplanes page 56 an article
called "Is there life after oversquare" by Chuck Berthe. It discusses
running at low rpm and high manifold pressure. Weird but true. If it's
good enough for Charles Linbergh.......
Ross Mickey
6-A Firewall
> Van's RV-6 manual list pro's and con's for Constant Speed vs Fixed
> pitch props. The following info is some of my opinions and also were
> expressed by Alan Tolle in a talk he gave at an EAA chapter 92
> meeting.
>
[Good discussion of the relative merits of CS vs Wood props deleted]
>
> Gary
(Another good dicussion fron Randall Henderson deleted)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Graves <mgraves(at)ptdcs2.intel.com> |
>
Don Wentz wrote:
> My prop is a cruise prop with not very good climb performance. Matt's prop
> climbed much better and was about 5mph faster at the top end. However, it is
> likely that it would either cruise much slower or at much higher fuel burn.
This is a very educational channel and I'm learning a lot here. I have a question
about fuel burn vs. prop pitch:
Is it safe to say that with a given power setting, the fuel burn rate
would decrease as the prop pitch becomes more severe and RPM drops?
Thanks :-)
Mike Graves
RV-6A in box on closet shelf
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "A. Reichert" <reichera(at)clark.net> |
| Subject: | RV in a BOX (Chatter) |
I want to know what compression program you used to get this
thing to fit in your closet! :-)
On Wed, 26 Jul 1995, Michael Graves wrote:
>
> RV-6A in box on closet shelf
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Wentz <Don_Wentz(at)ccm2.hf.intel.com> |
| Subject: | Re: fuel economy |
I don't know, but I'd like to see that article that Ross mentioned, it seems to
relate to how my prop ran before I started changing it.
>See the September 1995 issue of Kitplanes page 56 an article called "Is there
>life after oversquare" by Chuck Berthe. It discusses running at low rpm and
>high manifold pressure.
Is that available anywhere on the web/net?
The Duck, N790DW, 180HP RV-6, #20369
>>Don Wentz wrote:
>> My prop is a cruise prop with not very good climb performance. Matt's
>>prop climbed much better and was about 5mph faster at the top end.
>>However, it is
>> likely that it would either cruise much slower or at much higher fuel burn.
>This is a very educational channel and I'm learning a lot here. I
>have a question about fuel burn vs. prop pitch:
>Is it safe to say that with a given power setting, the fuel burn rate
>would decrease as the prop pitch becomes more severe and RPM drops?
>Thanks :-)
>Mike Graves
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gtyler(at)southwind.net (Greg Tyler) |
My name is Greg Tyler, from Derby, Kansas - near the "Air Capital of the
World" (Wichita) and have plans to build a RV-6. I am married with one
little boy (2) and one on the way. (I have finally convinced my wife that
this airplane is really going to happen! :^)
I am leaving for Oshkosh on Friday morning - taking the low route - in a
friends van. Unfortunately, we will be staying with the Q-2 bunch. I am
hoping to meet some of the other rv-lister's if Sat. @ 2:00 near the RV-6T
is still good?
I am currently working on building a tool collection. I found a local
source with new and some experienced Clecos for .25 ea! I still havn't
ordered my tail kit but hope to soon. I do have the plans however. (S/N
23685)
I can't wait to get started.
I have enjoyed the C/S vs. Fixed pitch discussion. I still haven't made up
my mind. I guess that I have a little while yet.
Greg Tyler
gtyler(at)southwind.net
RV-6 S/N 23685
Derby, KS
________________________________________________________________________________
hey jerry!
while looking through a 1973 copy of sport aviation, i found this half page
ad of you endorsing the chris tena aircraft "mini coupe". no doubt this is
where you got all of your money to build your -6. you look soooo cool in your
crash helmet. reminds me of one of those little radio control pilots!! and
the complete kit price less engine, motor mounts and cowling...$1695.00
jimnjac hillsboro, or. rv-4
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | donmack(at)interaccess.com (Don Mack) |
FYI,
While going through the last few Van's newsletters, I relized I had been ignoring
doing the plan updates due
lack of time (or any other lame excuse). I asked Vans for a list of what plans
are shipped with what kits
so that I can skip the updates for plans that I will get in the future.
This is what they replied for the RV-6a.
>The plans numbers are as follows:
>WING 10,11a,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19a,20,21
>
>FUSELAGE 22 THRU 44, 46,47,48,49,52,59,SC-1,SC-2,SC-3,SC-4
>
>FINISH 45,50,51,58,61,62
>
It did not include the emp. kit which I assume are plans 1-9 (have not pulled them
out to double check).
thought it might help
don mack
rv-6a
working on wings.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JerryFlyRV(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Navaid Device Autopilot |
After almost 700 hrs of flying my RV-6 I installed a Navaid Autopilot/Turn
Cordinator.
I installed the servo under the passenger seat and run the torque tube across
and attached to the pilot control stick. You do have to cut one of the seat
ribs to make room for the servo and then rivet some angles to the rib for
stiffness and make some brace's to stiffen up the servo area.
I have it hooked up to my Flybuddy GPS, I flew a 200 mile trip with it on
Wed. to see how it was going to work and it works GREAT, I took off from
Hillsboro,OR and climbed to 10.500ft trimmed for level flight and never
touched the stick again other than to make small pitch trim adjustments.(my
electric elevator trim control is on the stick) till I got ready to land at
Medford,OR. You could take a nap ,read the paper or whatever (but you
wouldn't because you are looking for other airplanes right?) and still get to
your destinatiion without getting lost.
I love it along with my new stereo PM200 intercom hooked up to a walkman type
player.
Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JerryFlyRV(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: tena mimi coupe |
>hey jerry!
>while looking through a 1973 copy of sport aviation, i found this half page
>ad of you endorsing the chris tena aircraft "mini coupe". no doubt this is
>where you got all of your money to build your -6. you look soooo cool in
your
>crash helmet. reminds me of one of those little radio control pilots!! and
>the complete kit price less engine, motor mounts and cowling...$1695.00
>
>jimnjac hillsboro, or. rv-4
....and I could not believe it when they raised the price to $1695.00, when I
bought my kit it was $695.00 I had about $1700.00 in the airplane when I
started flying it....wow.
This was about the same time Van was flying the prototype RV-3, it used to
really aggravate me when I was flying along at 95mph and he would come by me
and do loops around me.
Jerry Springer
First customer built MINI COUPE first flight November 1971 N71GS
Third customer built RV-6 first flight July 14, 1989 N906GS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Graves <mgraves(at)ptdcs2.intel.com> |
| Subject: | RV in a BOX (Chatter) |
A. Reichert wrote:
> I want to know what compression program you used to get this
> thing to fit in your closet! :-)
>
> On Wed, 26 Jul 1995, Michael Graves wrote:
>
> >
> > RV-6A in box on closet shelf
> >
>
Well, I have the paper version of th -6A. I did this for two reasons:
a) it is substantially cheaper, only $250 minus engine, prop, avionics.
b) Paper is much lighter than aluminum which will make one heck of a
fast climb performance
I do have some serious concerns about this though:
a) I am worried about noxious chemicals such as elmer's glue.
b) What are the g-load limits of a paper spar?
c) Can I fly in the rain?
I am experimenting with a folding fuselage design :-))
Mike Graves
RV-6A *STILL* in box on closet shelf
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Wentz <Don_Wentz(at)ccm2.hf.intel.com> |
| Subject: | Possible accomodations for Homecoming |
Gang, there is a new bed n breakfast being completed adjacent to the Scappoose
Airport (where my RV-6 is based), about 10 minutes by RV from Van's. They
assure me that there will be some rooms available by the homecoming.
It's called "The Barnstormer", and will have an aviation theme. One of the
owners, "Hap", has a real slick Starduster with a Ranger engine on it.
If you want to check with them, call:
Christine Cave
53758 West Lane Road
Scappoose, OR 97056
503-543-2740
The Duck, N790DW, 180HP RV-6, #20369
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JIM SCHMIDT <JIM.SCHMIDT(at)mail.mei.com> |
| Subject: | Courtaulds Phone # |
I ran out of the proseal I bought from Van
and and A & P friend of mine offered me
some 1422r that he says replaces the 890
that Van sells. The accelerator is black
and looks the same but the base is orange
not white. It is B2 which is the same cure
time.
Does any body know where to get technical
info from Courtaulds.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "A. Reichert" <reichera(at)clark.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV in a BOX (Chatter) |
On Thu, 27 Jul 1995, Michael Graves wrote:
> Well, I have the paper version of th -6A. I did this for two reasons:
>
> a) it is substantially cheaper, only $250 minus engine, prop, avionics.
Of course. The REALLY expensive stuff is left out...
> b) Paper is much lighter than aluminum which will make one heck of a
> fast climb performance
Paricularly in a thermal.
> I do have some serious concerns about this though:
>
> a) I am worried about noxious chemicals such as elmer's glue.
That never bothered me .
> b) What are the g-load limits of a paper spar?
Actually, quite high if built correctly!
> c) Can I fly in the rain?
There goes your g-limits on the paper spar...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com (Ross Mickey ) |
| Subject: | Fwd: Firewall/Engine mount |
Subject: Firewall/Engine mount
I am also building my firewall for a 6A but do not have my engine
mount. However, the distance between the top two tooling holes is
exzctly as shown in the plans. Plans #25 shows the distance as 18 9/16
from center or 37 1/8 between the holes. This is exactly where my
holes are.
Ross Mickey
6A Firewall / c/s box installation
I am currently building the firewall for a 6A. The tooling holes in the
firewall are supposed to match with the location of the engine mount
bolts
but are too close together by 1/8". I have my engine mount and sure
enough
when you fit it over the holes they are near the inner margins of the
mount
bolt location tubes rather than centered. A friend building a 6 had
the
same mismatch. Is this a problem with the jigging at Van's (mount is
correct
to spec) or are we missing something like the mount is meant to be
under
slight compression when fitted?
On another matter, if any Australian RVer on the list has Neil Bell's
phone
number I have his engine mount (shipped with my kit) but no way to get
in touch.
Cheers,
Leo Davies
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WinterByte(at)aol.com |
John Winter
Boise, Idaho
WinterByte(at)aol.com
Software Consultant specializing in CASE tools and data base design.
RV6-A
Very interesting to see who, what, and where we all are.
I began the project by tooling up about 1.5 years ago. Construction on tail
started in May. Took 2.5 months of full time + to complete horz stab,
vert stab, and rudder. This is probably longer than average, but I have
never worked with sheet metal before this. Boy, have I learned a lot!
Got some good info on trim from the network. Thanks to all who took time
to comment. I've decided to go with servos.
Planned completion date is the year 2000.
If anyone is passing over Boise on the way to RV fly-in, and you don't
mind someone drooling on your plane, lets get together.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6junkie(at)aol.com |
Please add Don Riggs to the RV list. Don has an RV-4 that he finished two
years ago. He has flown it about 250 hours so far! Maybe you have seen his
aircraft in Kitplanes or Sport Aviation - Valerie's Nightmare. Don's e-mail
address is wrgway(at)aol.com
Blue Sky's and Tail Winds
Gary Corde
RV-6 N211GC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gtyler(at)southwind.net (Greg Tyler) |
My name is Greg Tyler, from Derby, Kansas - near the "Air Capital of the
World" (Wichita) and have plans to build a RV-6. I am married with one
little boy (2) and one on the way. (I have finally convinced my wife that
this airplane is really going to happen! :^)
I am leaving for Oshkosh on Friday morning - taking the low route - in a
friends van. Unfortunately, we will be staying with the Q-2 bunch. I am
hoping to meet some of the other rv-lister's if Sat. @ 2:00 near the RV-6T
is still good?
I am currently working on building a tool collection. I found a local
source with new and some experienced Clecos for .25 ea! I still havn't
ordered my tail kit but hope to soon. I do have the plans however. (S/N
23685)
I can't wait to get started.
I have enjoyed the C/S vs. Fixed pitch discussion. I still haven't made up
my mind. I guess that I have a little while yet.
Greg Tyler
gtyler(at)southwind.net
RV-6 S/N 23685
Derby, KS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David A. Barnhart" <barnhart(at)crl.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pro-Sealing isn't so bad -Reply |
On Wed, 26 Jul 1995, JIM SCHMIDT wrote:
> Dave
>
> Did Scott put pro-seal on the skin also?
No, just on the ribs
> Did you put the Pro-seal over the rivet
> heads after bucking?
I asked him if I should do so, and his reply was, "You can
if you want to." He does not normally do so, and his tanks
don't leak.
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
rv-6 sn 23744
________________________________________________________________________________
I just read about 100 entries and deleted them as I read. Someone talked about
building one of these things by himself. I'm just looking ahead. Right now I
don't have a buddy. My wife is pretty impatient ( when we bleed the brakes on
the car she is bored on the first wheel). Is it possible to build a RV pretty
much by oneself?
Thanks in advance,
Dick McNaney
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rbibb(at)fore.com (Richard Bibb) |
| Subject: | Re: Who Are We (chatter) |
>Planned completion date is the year 2000.
>
I never set a completion date but at one time I said "it will be through in
'92"...
Well let's jsut say its almost through now...
RB
RV-4 N144KT
that's "One -4 for Katie" my daughter...
Richard E. Bibb TEL: (703) 478-9603
DOD Program Manager PAGE:(800) 719-1246
FORE Systems TEL: (301) 564-4404
6500 Rock Spring Drive, Suite 444 FAX: (301) 564-4408
Bethesda, MD 20817 rbibb(at)fore.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Solana <102131.2407(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Pre-built fuel tanks |
Here's the address and phone for one place that makes pre-built tanks.:
London and Associates
7232 cedar Creek Road
Scappoose, Oregon 97056
(503) 543-3986
$450 per tank, and they will build it from your parts which they will
receive from Van when you order your wing. They can do one with a flop tube for
aerobatics if you want, and they set them up for the typical Stewart-Warner
sending units.
Also ,they will make the skins 1/4 inch oversize in chord to allow you some
wiggle room for fitting it on your spar.
I was pretty happy with them. Both passed my balloon leak test. It seems
that one has a slight twist in it ( the inboard leading edge is 1/4 inch off
from the outboard leading edge now that they are mounted on the wing), but Van's
says this is something not to be concerned about at this point, just wait 'til
I
fly it since there will be other minor "defects" which will all add up to the
final performance characteristics. Also, in mounting them on the spar, I had a
problem with some of the rivets on the rear of the tank interfering with the
spar web to which the tank is screwed, so I had to file some of the web. I
heard that this happens sometimes to builders, so it is not unique - - any one
have any comments on that?
Don London was great though. When I first received the tanks, I was
concerned about some of the rivets not being squeezed down enough. Va's said
they do a quality job, so i should talk to them. When I did, they were not
hesitant to have the tanks returned for a check-up and they took care of
everything. Don said that these were done while he was away and he did not get
to check them before they went out.
Anyway, it all came out fine, if not perfect, and I did not have to build
and seal the tanks myself. I wonder if they are discontinuing the slosh
compound now, since Van is no longer recomending it's use?
I hope this helps.
Rick
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dierks(at)austin.ibm.com |
You can do it all by your lonesome except for the riveting of some of
the skins which really needs two people as you don't want to screw up
and put dings (smilies) on your nice skin.
This includes the wing skins, most of the fuselage skins, and probably
the fuel tanks.
Realize that the riveting is a very small part of the building process.
You can rivet both skins on one wing in one day (or say the top skin
on both wings in one day). The fuselage will be done in several steps
so you would need someone for about 2 to 2 and a half days total for
the fuselage but spread out in about 3 sessions.
The tanks can be done in a weekend.
Maybe some help on the tail skins also.
I had a friend that flys and is interested in RV's come over and
assist on all the above riveting. Given this is spread out over
a few years, it is not a big deal to get someone to help out for a day
or half day here and there.
All the controls (rudder, elev, flaps, ailerons) can be done by yourself
to back rivet on the stiffners, etc.
Lots of the riveting can be done by yourself for the small parts,
like the Horiz Stab spar, rivet to spars, all the interior fuselage parts,
etc.
Considering the 2,000 hrs to 2500 hrs to build, the riveting is a
small part.
Herman
>
> I just read about 100 entries and deleted them as I read. Someone talked about
> building one of these things by himself. I'm just looking ahead. Right now
I
> don't have a buddy. My wife is pretty impatient ( when we bleed the brakes on
> the car she is bored on the first wheel). Is it possible to build a RV pretty
> much by oneself?
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Dick McNaney
>
Herman Dierks, Dept. E54S, AWSD Austin, Texas
mail: dierks(at)austin.ibm.com VM: DIERKS at AUSVM6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
> I just read about 100 entries and deleted them as I read. Someone talked about
> building one of these things by himself. I'm just looking ahead. Right now
I
> don't have a buddy. My wife is pretty impatient ( when we bleed the brakes on
> the car she is bored on the first wheel). Is it possible to build a RV pretty
> much by oneself?
Yes, in fact I prefer it. I only call for a second pair of hands when
absolutely necessary, maybe 5% of the time. The other 95% of the time
I can be a hermit and listen to whatever music I want. Sometimes I
let the cat watch.
Randall Henderson
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: Courtaulds Phone # |
>
> Does any body know where to get technical
> info from Courtaulds.
>
These numbers/names are from a year or so ago, I don't know if they're
current but they should be a good place to start:
Courtaulds Aerospace Technical questions - Craig Michellock 818-548-7795
Courtaulds Aerospace, sealant divisio 818-549-7816 Bill Keller
Randall Henderson
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6junkie(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Lonesome (reply) |
Unless you have arms like Stretch Armstrong, I can=92t imagine building a=
n RV
alone. Somebody is going to have to get inside the fuselage the buck riv=
ets.
Same holds true for the wings. There are countless times when you will ne=
ed
some kind of hands-on assistance.
Another consideration. Unless you have built an aircraft before, or hold =
an
A&P certificate, it will be very frustrating to work on the aircraft with=
out
some hands on help in the beginning. Most projects that fail due so out o=
f
total frustration. Look into one of the many building seminars that seem =
to
be popping up all over the place. That=92s a great way to find-out what i=
s
involved. Look to the local EAA chapter and find someone who has built or=
is
in an advanced stage of building an RV.
Van probably has some of the best technical support in the business but i=
t is
hard to describe some things over the phone. This network seems to be a g=
ood
forum as well.
For what it=92s worth, my wife was not at all happy the day I came back f=
rom
Oshkosh with a set of plans for an RV-6...but that didn=92t stop her from=
bucking about half of the rivets in it. She knew how important it was to=
me
and never complained about it
Good Luck
Gary Corde
RV-6 N211GC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mike casmey <102023.1363(at)compuserve.com> |
please remove me from the list under this name
MIKE.CASMEY(at)SWAMP.MN.ORG
I'm still on under another address
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | J.Ken_Hitchmough(at)mail.magic.ca (J.Ken Hitchmough) |
>Is it possible to build a RV pretty
>much by oneself?
Apart from some bucking that really takes two, plus the ocassional help in
lifting heavy parts like engines and wings, it is most certainly possible to
build one by yourself. This is MY preferred mode as I can think, do whatever I
like and not consider anyone else. However I gotta add that a couple of people
contributed to mine a great deal, sometimes without even touching the 'plane.
1. My wife, who cooked, cleaned and waited patiently for those undone house
chores. I'd never be this far along without her support.
2. A couple of buddies (David Fried, Al Ludford) who helped on those necessary
two man tasks (probably about 5-10% of the kit) but more importantly were at
the other end of the phone when I needed an ear because part 'a' wouldn't
quite go with part 'b'.
Thanks guys.
Ken
wiring my '6a
(while my wife cooks dinner ;-)
--
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Magic Online Services Toronto Inc. (416) 591-6490
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Terence C. Gannon" <74267.3003(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Navaid Device Autopilot - Possible IFR Use? |
Further to Jerry's note on the Navaid (very interesting),
I got to thinking about the RV-6 as an IFR platform. I know
that this probably sounds counter to Van's philosophy of
keeping the RV simple, but I would be interested in hearing
of people's experience in flying any of the RV's IFR.
For those of you following along at home, you'll probably
wonder why somebody (ie. me) who hasn't started building yet,
and doesn't have the IFR ticket would be asking such as question,
but I guess I'm just trying to think ahead! :-)
Thanx for your help...
Terry in Calgary
"Reviewing Preview Plans S/N 24414"
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Rudder Fit Advice Needed |
When fitting the rudder to the Vertical Stab., I realize the adjustments are
made by screwing the three hinge bolts in the rudder spar in or out. This
changes the clearance between the rudder leading edge and the Vertical Stab.
main spar. I also realize the three bolts must be aligned properly. How do
I know when my rudder is properly fit to my V/S.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mike.casmey(at)swamp.mn.org |
unsubscribe rv-list
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dell M. Auer" <auer(at)teleport.com> |
-- [ From: Dell M. Auer * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] --
Greetings Gang
Does any one know if Van got the hours off of his RV8 and did he make
it to OSH.
Regards
Dell
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John P. Foy" <102370.3241(at)compuserve.com> |
On my RV-6A I'm using a Lyc 0-360-A1A engine with the Hartzell CS prop. Since
I'm really at heart a cheap bugger, I decided on the CS prop for a number of
reasons: 1. It's the ONLY way you are going to get the full 180 hp when you
need it the most, i.e. on takeoff and go around. I just hate to pay for hp that
I can't use! 2. You will never be satisfied with a fixed pitch prop and you will
probably wind up with two or three fixed pitch props to get the one that will
come closest to your own specs. 3.Formation flying is a lot easier with the CS
prop since you can set an RPM setting that will let you keep up with the others
by just adjusting the throttle. 4.In cruise you will not have to ask the leader
to "give me a couple hundred RPMs so I can keep up. 5. Your climb will be
SIGNIFICANTLY improved from a cruise fixed pitch prop. Forget about faster top
speeds at low altitudes as the top speed on the RVs is a function of more than
just a CS prop. 6. At altitudes above 4000 ft you will be able to set up just
about any manifold pressure you want and lean out accordingly.
Good Luck......John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Solana <102131.2407(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | re: Rudder Fit Advice Needed |
Drawing 6 identifies the distances which you should have bettween the rudder
spar web and the vertical stabilizer spar web. These distances are different at
the top and bottom. Get you top and bottom bolts to give you those distances,
then make the middle bolt line up. Good luck.
Rick Solana
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kevin E. Vap" <kvap(at)solar.sky.net> |
-- [ From: Kevin E. Vap * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] --
>Date: Sunday, 30-Jul-95 08:22 AM
>From: Dell M. Auer \ Internet: (teleport.com!auer@matronics.
com)
>Subject: rv8
>Greetings Gang
>Does any one know if Van got the hours off of his RV8 and did he make
>it to OSH.
>Regards
>Dell
I just got back this morning (Sunday @6:00 am after a 10 hour drive during
the night). Yes, the RV-8 was at the show (at the booth). It looked pretty
good (more room, bigger panel over the -4). I'll let the RV-4 experts
describe it better when they get back.
-Kevin Vap
"RV-6"
kvap@sky.net http://www.sky.net/~kvap
________________________________________________________________________________
by ono.lincoln.ac.nz (PMDF V4.3-13 #7492)
| From: | Stephen Bell <steve(at)discus.lincoln.ac.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: Tip up canopy gas struts. |
>
> Steve,
> The last RVator had a nice set of photos on a NZ RV6 (-RVL).
> These photos showed that the two builders had installed gas struts to hold
> open their tip-up canopy, but that the struts were installed in a different
> location from normal. They were much further forward than other
> installations I have seen, giving less obstruction during entry.
>
> Do you know these guys, and/or could you find out any more details
> of their canopy gas strut installation and report back to the RV-list??
>
> ... thanks Gil Alexander ...
Hi Gil & others,
I made some enquiries about this, I ended up talking to Sam Chartres who
is building an RV-6 (SRV?) in the Te Anau area here in the south island. Sam worked
out
the orignal details for this installation which was also used by the builders
of the RV-6 ZK-RVL. He has given me some details & drawings which should be
sufficient to enable you to locally source gas struts to similar specs.
I understand that when closed the struts "push" the canopy in the opposite
direction to the vans installation.
Sam mentioned a gap being created on his 6 when trialing the system prior
to having everything riveted together. My interpretation was that the canopy
frame structures were only clecoed together at that point, and that he didn't
think this was a problem on ZK-RVL which is now flying.
Without the engine running & the canopy unlatched it rests in the closed
position, with a light touch it moves into the open position. From Sams
description it sounded quite stable.
Gil, I planned on scanning in the drawings & e-mailing them to you, do you have
any preferences on the format (postscript,pcx,jpeg...???)
RV-list folks, e-mail me if you're interested in getting the drawings, if there
is sufficient interest I'll mail them to the list, otherwise i'll reply
individually.
Steve.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Stephen Bell |
Lincoln University, \--------------------(*)--------------------/
Canterbury,
New Zealand. NIMBUS II - Driver XX
RV 6 - Growing in the garage.
E-Mail: S.Bell(at)ono.lincoln.ac.nz work
steve(at)discus.lincoln.ac.nz play
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | luism(at)ibm.net (Luis Madsen) |
| Subject: | Superior Air Parts fax number ? |
Could anybody please help me with the fax number to Superior Air Parts?
What I have is the address:
14280 Gillis Road, Dallas, Texas 75244-3792; phone 800/299-5802.
This does not help me, as I can not dial a 800 number from Denmark.
Have any of you experience with the service and parts quality from them.
Luis Madsen, Denmark
luism(at)ibm.net
RV6 60%
luism(at)ibm.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gasobek(at)CCGATE.HAC.COM |
The FAA just released a revised Advisory Circular on Amateur-Built
Aircraft and Ultralight Flight Testing on May 25, 1995. If anyone
wants a copy, contact the FAA at:
U. S. Department of Transportation
Property Use and Storage
Section, M-45.3
Washington, DC 20590
Order / request: AC 90-89A.
Gary RV-6 20480 N-157GS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Wentz <Don_Wentz(at)ccm2.hf.intel.com> |
| Subject: | Re[2]: Rudder Fit Advice Needed |
You will also want to make it fit in relation to the skins on the VS, when
turned to 'the stops'. Depending on how closely you want your VS
skins-to-rudder gap, this will take some trial and error. I did this final
adjustment with everything on the fuse.
The Duck, N790DW, 180HP RV-6, #20369
>Drawing 6 identifies the distances which you should have bettween the
>rudder spar web and the vertical stabilizer spar web. These distances are
>different at
>the top and bottom. Get you top and bottom bolts to give you those distances,
>then make the middle bolt line up. Good luck.
>Rick Solana
________________________________________________________________________________
(Soft*Switch Central V4L380P5) id 743316070095212FAOPARI;
| From: | "NMARSHAL" <NMARSHAL(at)AOPARI.remnet.rockwell.com> |
| Subject: | NOTE 07/31/95 19:56:00 |
please enter my name (nmarshal) as a subscriber
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6junkie(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Lonesome (reply) |
Unless you have arms like Stretch Armstrong, I can=92t imagine building a=
n RV
alone. Somebody is going to have to get inside the fuselage the buck riv=
ets.
Same holds true for the wings. There are countless times when you will ne=
ed
some kind of hands-on assistance.
Another consideration. Unless you have built an aircraft before, or hold =
an
A&P certificate, it will be very frustrating to work on the aircraft with=
out
some hands on help in the beginning. Most projects that fail due so out o=
f
total frustration. Look into one of the many building seminars that seem =
to
be popping up all over the place. That=92s a great way to find-out what i=
s
involved. Look to the local EAA chapter and find someone who has built or=
is
in an advanced stage of building an RV.
Van probably has some of the best technical support in the business but i=
t is
hard to describe some things over the phone. This network seems to be a g=
ood
forum as well.
For what it=92s worth, my wife was not at all happy the day I came back f=
rom
Oshkosh with a set of plans for an RV-6...but that didn=92t stop her from=
bucking about half of the rivets in it. She knew how important it was to=
me
and never complained about it
Good Luck
Gary Corde
RV-6 N211GC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Graves <mgraves(at)ptdcs2.intel.com> |
| Subject: | Superior Air Parts fax number ? |
Luis Madsen writes:
>
> Could anybody please help me with the fax number to Superior Air Parts?
>
> What I have is the address:
> 14280 Gillis Road, Dallas, Texas 75244-3792; phone 800/299-5802.
>
> This does not help me, as I can not dial a 800 number from Denmark.
>
> Have any of you experience with the service and parts quality from them.
>
> Luis Madsen, Denmark
> luism(at)ibm.net
>
> RV6 60%
> luism(at)ibm.net
>
>
The 800 number given is for some dude ranch. The correct number is:
1-800-487-4884. I called them and the FAX number is (214)233-5474
Good luck!
Mike Graves
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jeayers(at)CCGATE.HAC.COM |
>The Duck, N790DW, 180HP RV-6, #20369 - Said;
>As a side note, I have never been satisfied with the climb performance of my
>prop (73L x 72p). It is a great cruiser, I usually cruise at 2450 and burn
>less fuel than 0-320 equipped RVs. But I want more pull so I sent it back for
>Bernie to take 1" of pitch out. It climbs better and I can get almost 2650
>flat-out, but I want more, so last night Doug Miner helped me take 1" off the
>length. We think this will increase rpm almost 100. I'll let you know what
>happens.
I am interested in knowing the results of the 1" change in diameter on your
Warnke Prop. Also, are the tips of your Warnke prop exceptionally small??
(Warnke has a couple of different blade designs.)
I removed 3/4" from the diameter of the Warnke 72"(dia) x 70"(pitch) prop on the
Lyc O-290 I had on my RV-3. I had the following RPM change;
72" Dia. 71 1/4" Dia
Static RPM 2350 2350
Climb RPM 2250 2350
Max Speed RPM 2600 2600
BTW, I have a Warnke Prop 68x68 pusher prop on my RV-3 with the LOM engine. I
get 2200 RPM for climb. However, Bernie was surprised to learn that I could
over-speed the engine straight and level, if I pulled more than 32 inches of
manifold pressure. (Yes, the engine is rated for 2700RPM and 35 inches of MP.)
Jim Ayers
RV-3 #10050 (323.7 Hrs on Lyc O-290, now flying as the Long Nose RV-3, 11.1 Hrs)
From: dierks(at)austin.ibm.com
Subject: Superior Air Parts
Date: Mon, 31 Jul 1995 16:21:12 -0500 (CDT)
>
> Have any of you experience with the service and parts quality from them.
>
> Luis Madsen, Denmark
> luism(at)ibm.net
>
Luis, I have used Superior parts. I rebuilt a Cont. O-300 and a
Lyc O-320, both major OH. I used as many parts as I could get from
them and think they have very good quality and prices.
On the O320, I did use a Lyc oil pump parts and Lyc. rod bolts
(Superior was out of rod bolts at the time)
Superior did have a problem with getting a bad batch of Rod bolts
last year and you may have seen the AD on this. Their normal supplier
was out as was Lyc. Superior found some in Germany and the samples
they tested were indeed Lyc. rod bolts. They bought the entire batch
and the rest of the batch was bogus bolts and two failed in use.
In general, they have equal or better quality and stand behind their
parts.
Herman Dierks, Dept. E54S, AWSD Austin, Texas
mail: dierks(at)austin.ibm.com VM: DIERKS at AUSVM6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Wentz <Don_Wentz(at)ccm2.hf.intel.com> |
Jim, I tried to add my data below. Actually, the person who estimated a
100 rpm increase for a 1" loss of length was the guy who owns Pacesetter
props. If you look at a Pacesetter vs a Warnke at the tip, there is
significantly more material there, so his estimate didn't hold for a
Warnke (not his fault).
My 73" prop had about 1.5" by <1/4" at the tip, and almost NO pitch. We
removed about 3/4" total length and I really can't tell a difference. I
think I will go for another 3/4" and try that. NOTE - my prop has more
cross section in the center and is a newer design from the Warnke
high-aspect ratio prop that I see on lots of RVs, so this discussion
does NOT xlate to those props.
dw
>As a side note, I have never been satisfied with the climb performance of my
>prop (73L x 72p). It is a great cruiser, I usually cruise at 2450 and burn
>less fuel than 0-320 equipped RVs. But I want more pull so I sent
it back for
>Bernie to take 1" of pitch out. It climbs better and I can get almost 2650
>flat-out, but I want more, so last night Doug Miner helped me take 1" off the
>length. We think this will increase rpm almost 100. I'll let you know what
>happens.
I am interested in knowing the results of the 1" change in diameter on your
Warnke Prop. Also, are the tips of your Warnke prop exceptionally small??
(Warnke has a couple of different blade designs.)
I removed 3/4" from the diameter of the Warnke 72"(dia) x 70"(pitch)
prop on the
Lyc O-290 I had on my RV-3. I had the following RPM change;
JP DP JP DP
72" Dia. 73" 71 1/4" Dia 72.25"
Static RPM 2350 2250 2350 2250
Climb RPM 2250 2150 2350 2200
Max Speed RPM 2600 2650 2600 2650
BTW, I have a Warnke Prop 68x68 pusher prop on my RV-3 with the LOM engine. I
get 2200 RPM for climb. However, Bernie was surprised to learn that I could
over-speed the engine straight and level, if I pulled more than 32 inches of
manifold pressure. (Yes, the engine is rated for 2700RPM and 35 inches of MP.)
Jim Ayers
RV-3 #10050 (323.7 Hrs on Lyc O-290, now flying as the Long Nose RV-3,
11.1 Hrs)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Curt Reimer <Curt_Reimer(at)NtwkServ.MTS.MB.CA> |
On Sun, 30 Jul 1995, Dell M. Auer wrote:
> Greetings Gang
> Does any one know if Van got the hours off of his RV8 and did he make
> it to OSH.
Yes.
Its a beauty.
Curt Reimer
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com (Ross Mickey ) |
| Subject: | Firewall Cosmetics |
For those of you who might want to add a slick look to the engine side
of the firewall, try this. I used a 2" blue Scothbright wheel to
create a "fishscale" patten on the engine side of the firewall. I made
a jig from a piece of lath or you could use a yardstick. I put a half
round impression on the side of the yardstick on every inch mark using
the side of a drill running in my drill press the same diameter as the
shaft of the Scotchbright wheel. Mark every other inch with a red pen
and the other ones with a blue pen. I clamped a piece of 3/4" angle
along each side of the firewall as it lay flat on a table (an old
closet door on saw horses). These angles were marked every inch. I
screwed two samll pieces of 3/4" angle into the yardstick the width of
the distance between the two pieces of angle clamped to the table.
These are used to secure the yardstick to the angle using cleco clamps,
visegrips or c-clamps. The yadstick will be sitting 3/4" above the
firewall paralel to the bottom of the firewall. Place the shaft of the
Scothbright wheel in the first notch which hits the edge of the
firewall and hold for about 10 seconds. This will create a Very bright
circle with subtle scratch marks. Move the wheel over TWO inches to
the same colored notch (if the first was red move to the next red) and
repeat accros the firewall. Now move the yardstick up ONE inch. Place
the shank of the Scothbright wheel in the ALTERNATE colored notch ( if
red the last row use blue this row). Keep doing this over the whole
firewall and you end up with a beautiful fishscale pattern on the
firewall.
Why you ask? Just because its neat!!
Some builders have used the same process on the engine baffles. These
have to be prtected with a clear coating since they are aluminum.
Ross Mickey
6-A Firewall construction.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com (Ross Mickey ) |
| Subject: | Fwd: Navaid Device Autopilot - Possible IFR Use? |
Subject: Navaid Device Autopilot - Possible IFR Use?
Terry,
The December 1992 RVATOR had two articles about IFR in RV's. The first
was written by Earl Brabant, a CFII. He tested the factories RV6-T.
The three page review has lots of tidbits. His conclusion, "I believe
the RV is suitable for IFR flight and roughly compares in difficulty to
some other light aircraft I've flown. It depends on your perspective;
many big-iron pilots might find it to twitchy and too much work.
Compared to my kind of flying, it seems pretty normal."
The other article was by Pete Stevenson, a RV-6 builder equipped with
IFR panel and Navaid autopilot. His impressions after two years and 35
hours IFR, "Considering the role the RV-6 is designed for, it does an
acceptable job in the clouds. Lateral stability is marginal. With a
good aileron system it is adequate, but the airplane does require
constant attention while on gauges. I have found the autopilot to be
indispensable for any protracted periods of IFR flight."
He goes on to remark about problems of normal approach speeds being
above flap operating speeds which makes it difficult to obtain required
decent rates. He has a wood prop. Using a constant speed would help
this. His final comment is to not equiped for IFR, spend the money on
gas and "Keep it simple, keep it light and fly a lot."
Ross Mickey
Firewall -cut hole out for gov. box now thats a job!!!!!!
Further to Jerry's note on the Navaid (very interesting),
I got to thinking about the RV-6 as an IFR platform. I know
that this probably sounds counter to Van's philosophy of
keeping the RV simple, but I would be interested in hearing
of people's experience in flying any of the RV's IFR.
For those of you following along at home, you'll probably
wonder why somebody (ie. me) who hasn't started building yet,
and doesn't have the IFR ticket would be asking such as question,
but I guess I'm just trying to think ahead! :-)
Thanx for your help...
Terry in Calgary
"Reviewing Preview Plans S/N 24414"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gil(at)rassp.hac.com (Gil Alexander) |
| Subject: | Firewall cutting |
>Subject: *** was *** Navaid Device Autopilot - Possible IFR Use?
>
>Terry,
>
>The December 1992 RVATOR had two articles about IFR in RV's. The first
>was written by Earl Brabant, a CFII. He tested the factories RV6-T.
*** interesting IFR discussion cut out ****
>this. His final comment is to not equiped for IFR, spend the money on
>gas and "Keep it simple, keep it light and fly a lot."
>
>
>Ross Mickey
>Firewall -cut hole out for gov. box now thats a job!!!!!!
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Guys,
..... I am just about to cut this out to fit in Vans old (bend it
yourself) -6A firewall recess.
Does anyone have any good hints on how to cut this 8 by 10 inch
(approx) hole out of the stainless steel???
Drilling it was somewhat of a pain :^) , and I am guessing that
cutting it is a bigger pain.
... thanks ..... Gil Alexander, RV6A, #20701, reserving N164GA this week.
Oshkosh had the FAA registry people
there, and there were only 2 numbers
left in the NxxxGA series. If you
fancy a special registration, apply
now with your $10, the lower numbers
seem to be going fast.
PS ... Vans -6A firewall recess now comes from Barnard Aircraft Co. and is
already formed and spot welded into shape. About $37 as an optional part I
believe.
>
*** more cut out ***
>
>Thanx for your help...
>
>Terry in Calgary
>"Reviewing Preview Plans S/N 24414"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | klgray(at)bihs.net (Ken Gray) |
Ken Gray
Bryan, Texas
RV6 SN: 23069
Almost done with finish kit.
Setting it up for IFR, 0320 E2D, Fixed pitch.
Started October 1993
expect first flight December 95.
N number applied for.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Re-Post of List Format (non-tech) |
| From: | Bill Downey <billd(at)ibmoto.com> |
William Downey
Austin, Texas
billd(at)ibmoto.com
RV-6A SN-22334
I work for IBM designing PowerPC microprocessors. I have a wife and a
cute little girl getting close to two years old. I love building
things and I love flying. Constructing an RV gives me a chance to
combine these two.
So far I am still stuck on the tail. Most of this is inertia rather
than any difficultly with the plans or kit. I moved into a new house
last October with a three car garage. I have most of my new home
projects out of the way and hope to get back to building soon.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | GETIPSWO(at)uop.com (GETIPSWO) |
| Subject: | Platenuts on inboard wing rib... |
Here's a question for you finishing kit or flying builders. RV6 DWG 46
ambiguously shows some platenuts on both the top and bottom flanges
of the inboard wing rib, presumably for attatching wing root fairings. The
reference I see in the plans is the edgewise depiction which does not
show how many or spacing between the platenuts. Van also refers
to these platenuts in a brief paragraph in "14 Years of the RVator... Yes
Virginia...". My question is at the time of skinning my wings, what to I
need to anticipate and allow for before I rivet the skins on?
Thanks.
Greg Tipsword
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JerryFlyRV(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Firewall cutting |
> ..... I am just about to cut this out to fit in Vans old (bend it
>yourself) -6A firewall recess.
>
> Does anyone have any good hints on how to cut this 8 by 10 inch
>(approx) hole out of the stainless steel???
Gil
Best way to cut the firewall is with a die grinder and a small fiber cutting
wheel simular to the one Van sends for cutting the canopy and use a good pair
of safety glasses.
Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Earl W Brabandt <Earl_W_Brabandt(at)ccm.jf.intel.com> |
Text item:
>Subject: *** was *** Navaid Device Autopilot - Possible IFR Use?
>
>Terry,
>
>The December 1992 RVATOR had two articles about IFR in RV's. The first
>was written by Earl Brabant, a CFII. He tested the factories RV6-T.
*** interesting IFR discussion cut out ****
>this. His final comment is to not equiped for IFR, spend the money on
>gas and "Keep it simple, keep it light and fly a lot."
Hmmm, we haven't seen much discusion of this often popular subject
recently. It's certainly generated a few heated debates in the past.
It appears to be on it's way back though.
Actually, I believe that was another article which voiced an opposing
point of view. To summarize my impressions: I believe that the suitability
of an RV for IFR flight is more a function of the pilot than the aircraft.
Many pilots accustomed to flying larger airplanes find 152s challenging
on the gauges. It's all a matter of what you're used to and how much
you practice -- and of course what kind of flying you're interested in
doing.
Calin Brabandt (formerly Earl) ATP: S & MEL, SES; CFI: IA, S & ME
RV-6 N66VR in progress
Text item: External Message Header
The following mail header is for administrative use
and may be ignored unless there are problems.
***IF THERE ARE PROBLEMS SAVE THESE HEADERS***.
Subject: Firewall cutting
From: rassp.hac.com!gil(at)matronics.com (Gil Alexander)
Date: Mon, 31 Jul 1995 18:48:22 -0800
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Wentz <Don_Wentz(at)ccm2.hf.intel.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Firewall cutting |
Gil,
>this. His final comment is to not equiped for IFR, spend the money on
>gas and "Keep it simple, keep it light and fly a lot."
>
I agree 100% with this. All of my IFR stuff is coming out this winter, since my
first year and 200 hrs of flying in my -6 shows me that light weight is highest
priority, fun flying in decent weather is my most frequent mission, long cross
country only 2 or three times a year. Park it if the weather sucks.
>>Ross Mickey
>>Firewall -cut hole out for gov. box now thats a job!!!!!!
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>..... I am just about to cut this out to fit in Vans old (bend it
>yourself) -6A firewall recess.
>Does anyone have any good hints on how to cut this 8 by 10 inch
>(approx) hole out of the stainless steel???
>Drilling it was somewhat of a pain :^) , and I am guessing that
>cutting it is a bigger pain.
Just drill a pilot hole in each corner, enlarge it enought with a unibit to
get your snips started, and snip it out. the .020 SS cuts very easily with
snips, just use care to prevent 'curling'. And watch out for those
slivers!!! Youch.
The Duck, N790DW, 180HP RV-6, #20369
... thanks ..... Gil Alexander, RV6A, #20701, reserving N164GA this week.
Oshkosh had the FAA registry people
there, and there were only 2 numbers
left in the NxxxGA series. If you
fancy a special registration, apply
now with your $10, the lower numbers
seem to be going fast.
PS ... Vans -6A firewall recess now comes from Barnard Aircraft Co. and is
already formed and spot welded into shape. About $37 as an optional part I
believe.
>
*** more cut out ***
>
>Thanx for your help...
>
>Terry in Calgary
>"Reviewing Preview Plans S/N 24414"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <Jim=Preston%10AF%AFRESEM(at)wrb.afres.af.mil> (Maj, 303FS, Whiteman AFB, MO, |
DSN 975-3620 or 3489)
| Subject: | Oshkosh, Building Seminars |
Well, I've been to Mecca, and I've seen the light! Just got back from
Oshkosh, where I spent the 25th & 26th taking a seminar at Skystruck
Enterprises learning about building RVs. Ken Scott from Van's was there
teaching basic sheet metal techniques; the class consisted of me, Tom (a
recent retiree), Chuck (a jeweler), and Wayne, whose wife and daughter also
participated. We were disappointed that there weren't more people there,
but it made for a better instructor-student ratio. My background is that I
fly A-10s in the Air Force Reserve, haven't built anything resembling an
airplane, and don't consider myself to be all that handy. My wife was, and
is, still pretty dead set against this project, so I thought this seminar
might force the issue, in that if I felt like it was beyond my capabilities,
I could back out with a minimal monetary investment. (I had also planned to
do the Van's seminar in Oregon, but Ken said that this one had pretty much
the same information, so I may not do that.) The seminar was very well done,
and one I would recommend to potential builders who aren't sure if they're
capable of doing this. John and Betty Monett at Skystruck were super to
work with...they really made us feel welcome. They have another seminar
scheduled for September 9 & 10, and their number is 800-759-7875. Don't
worry about calling late; they can accomodate lots of folks.
Now for the down side...after the seminar, I felt like I could actually build
an RV-6. Physically, the work isn't impossible. However, after walking
around the RV parking area at Oshkosh and seeing so many beautiful examples
of RV craftsmanship, I don't know if I'd be happy with anything less than
perfection. I saw Jerry Scott's new -6, built in 85 days. I was drooling on
it when Jerry VanGrunsven came by with Judy, and we were all in awe. Nearby
was Lyle Hefel's -6, another outstanding example of workmanship. (Lyle's is
for sale, by the way.) Between the two of them, I don't know if what I could
do would be good enough. There weren't really ANY bad ones there, some were
just slightly better than others...made me wonder if the "dogs" were afraid
to come, or if all of the RVs out there are that good. You have to
understand, I fly A-10s, so looks aren't all that important to me, but I
don't want piece of dogdoo out there either. Oh, well...I have to keep
working on the wife anyway. By the way, I got to meet Van and see the RV-8
up close and personal. All of a sudden, my wife sitting in the back may not
be so bad after all. I also met Bob and Judy Avery of Avery Tools fame
(super folks, very down-home and friendly), DJ Lauritsen of Cleaveland Tools
and DJ's Interiors (also very friendly), and George and Becky Orndorff who
make the "How-To" videos (again, real friendly people). It was cool to see
so many people who make the RV the phenomenon that it is.
I've got the preview plans, a subscription to the RVator, and Matt Dralle's
been religiously filling up my email box with your posts, so the only thing
I'm waiting on is a European trip with the family next summer before I can get
started (a concession to the wife). Meanwhile, I'll go back to my "lurk"
mode, and try to keep up with everything you're all discussing. It makes
so much more sense now after that seminar!
Jim
RV-6 #24312
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com (Ross Mickey ) |
| Subject: | Fwd: Firewall cutting |
Subject: Firewall cutting
Gil,
I used a cut-off wheel from Avery (part 01028 $4.50) running in a
standard electric drill. I started using an air toool but couldn't
maintain a high enough rpm. I like the results. The entire cut-off
wheel was eaten up in the process. Very little filing was needed. The
metal does get hot and discolored a bit at the cut, but this gets
covered over by the flanges of the box. (I've been told by some to
place the flanges on the engine side rather than hiding them between
the firewall and angle. Any comments????)
Ross Mickey
6-A Got the jig delivered last night
Does anyone have any good hints on how to cut this 8 by 10 inch
(approx) hole out of the stainless steel???
Drilling it was somewhat of a pain :^) , and I am guessing
that
cutting it is a bigger pain.
... thanks ..... Gil Alexander, RV6A, #20701, reserving N164GA
this week.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: Portland RVators Newsletter & Re: experience |
> I am looking for an ongoing RV project that I can hang around for a while
> to get acclimated. I plan on starting my -6A this year (yeah, sure), and
> I would like to get some exposure to some real building before I plunge
> into mine. I would prefer a westside project like Hillsboro area.
>
> Mike Graves
Mike:
I plan to publish the roster in the newsletter this month. Hopefully
that will be of some help.
All:
Want to be famous? Too bad. But if you want to see yourself in a
weenie little newsletter, send me your stuff! The deadline for
Portland RVators Newsletter input this month is end-of-the-day
Thursday, August 3rd. Meeting place is still undecided, I'll post it
(and put it in the newsletter of course) as soon as I know.
Randall
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Clanton / City of Thornton <thornmis(at)usa.net> |
please un-subscribe jgoodman(at)nyx.cs.du.edu
thnaks
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Firewall cutting |
I just did that job myself. I drilled corner holes with a hole saw, then
used snips. It was fast and easy! No smoking metal or pieced of grinding
wheel imbeded in my face. I finished up by clamping each side between two
pieces of wood, then used a small sanding disk in my die grinder (120 grit)
to smooth out any rough spots.
>>Ross Mickey
>>Firewall -cut hole out for gov. box now thats a job!!!!!!
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
>Guys,
> ..... I am just about to cut this out to fit in Vans old (bend it
>yourself) -6A firewall recess.
>
> Does anyone have any good hints on how to cut this 8 by 10 inch
>(approx) hole out of the stainless steel???
>
> Drilling it was somewhat of a pain :^) , and I am guessing that
>cutting it is a bigger pain.
>
> ... thanks ..... Gil Alexander, RV6A, #20701, reserving N164GA this week.
>
> Oshkosh had the FAA registry people
> there, and there were only 2 numbers
> left in the NxxxGA series. If you
> fancy a special registration, apply
> now with your $10, the lower numbers
> seem to be going fast.
>
>PS ... Vans -6A firewall recess now comes from Barnard Aircraft Co. and is
>already formed and spot welded into shape. About $37 as an optional part I
>believe.
>
>
>
>
>
>>
>
>*** more cut out ***
>
>>
>>Thanx for your help...
>>
>>Terry in Calgary
>>"Reviewing Preview Plans S/N 24414"
>
>
>
>
_____________________________
Bob Neuner
Production Scheduling Supervisor
Integrated Measurement Systems
(503) 626-5262
bobn(at)ims.com
_____________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | North Plains Coordinates |
RVer's
I would like someone to post the latitude/longitude coordinates for the North
Plains airport. Someone must have entered them in his or her GPS. Then, I
won't have to strain my eyes looking at the Seattle Sectional figuring it out
myself. There seems to be several private strips within a few miles of each
other near HIO. I want to fly down to the potluck in Sept., weather
permitting.
Thanx,
RGWELCH
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dierks(at)austin.ibm.com |
| Subject: | FYI, using die grinders |
>
> I used a cut-off wheel from Avery (part 01028 $4.50) running in a
> standard electric drill. I started using an air toool but couldn't
> maintain a high enough rpm.
FYI, for tools like die grinders, you need to use a large diameter
air host to get the volume of air to the tool. A small diam. hose
will not cut it. I think I used a 3/8" ID host. At anyrate, larger
than the typical cheap (1/4inch) air host.
I have also found that the Unibit works well to drill into Stainless Steel.
Drill a small pilot hole (1/8in. or so) and then use the unibit.
Herman Dierks, Dept. E54S, AWSD Austin, Texas
mail: dierks(at)austin.ibm.com VM: DIERKS at AUSVM6
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Fwd: North Plains Coordinates |
Bounced, trying again.
Regards,
---------------------
From: aol.com!RGWELCH(at)matronics.com
Date: 95-08-01 22:34:21 EDT
RVer's
I would like someone to post the latitude/longitude coordinates for the North
Plains airport. Someone must have entered them in his or her GPS. Then, I
won't have to strain my eyes looking at the Seattle Sectional figuring it out
myself. There seems to be several private strips within a few miles of each
other near HIO. I want to fly down to the potluck in Sept., weather
permitting.
Thanx,
RGWELCH
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6junkie(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Platenuts on inboard wing rib... |
Those plate-nuts on the bottom of the wing are VERY IMPORTANT! They attach
the bottom fuselage skin to the wing and they are STRUCTURAL. The spacing is
2" as they fall between the rivets that attach the root rib and the skin.
You can't drill them untill you fit the wings to the fuselage.
As for the plate nuts on the top of the wings, they are for the root fairing
and they are also drilled in assembly.
Gary Corde
RV-6 N211GC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gil(at)rassp.hac.com (Gil Alexander) |
| Subject: | FAA "N" number reservation form |
RV-listers,
Footer from my last posting:--
"Oshkosh had the FAA registry people
there, and there were only 2 numbers
left in the NxxxGA series. If you
fancy a special registration, apply
now with your $10, the lower numbers
seem to be going fast."
I must have still been suffering from OFBS -- "Oshkosh Fried Brain
Syndrome" [defined as: overload of airplane stuff, coupled with mild
sunstroke and dehydration :^) ] ...I really meant 2 numbers left in the
NxxGA series.
Following is a form copied from one the FAA were handing out at
Oshkosh for reserving a US registration number. It is simpler than the
form Herman D. previously posted, which was more applicable to the actual
registration process.
This form only requests that the FAA holds a registration number
for you at a cost of $10 per year. They said that they send a reminder
notice out each year for the $10 renewal fee. An actual aircraft does not
have to be specified, and the reservation of this number does not show in
the FAA aircraft registry data base presently on internet ( from havard.edu
).
Since no actual aircraft is associated with the number, the local
state tax collectors don't get informed, and should be held at bay. After
all, what's the personal property value of a number??
******** form follows ***** just cut and paste *****
RESERVATION OF AN "N" NUMBER
I wish to reserve a Registration Number to be
used at a later date. The fee to reserve a Registration
Number is $10 per year.
My choices are:
1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
Signature: ____________________________
Name: _________________________________
Address: ______________________________
_______________________________________
_______________________________________
Phone: ________________________________
Mail request and Fee to:
FAA Aircraft Registry
PO Box 25504
Oklahoma City, OK 73125
******* end of form *********
.... get your favorite number now, before it goes.... Gil Alexander
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <Jim=Preston%10AF%AFRESEM(at)wrb.afres.af.mil> (Maj, 303FS, Whiteman AFB, MO, |
DSN 975-3620 or 3489)
Don,
Re your last concerning the amount of time guys will spend on their
projects versus what they get out of it...I think you made some excellent
points. I agree that you can spend hours, if not days, trying to make that
joint fit to 1/64" instead of 1/32 or even 1/16. At the Oshkosh Skystruck
seminar, Ken Scott said that the airplane doesn't know the difference between
1/32" or 1/16". Would it be worth the added aggravation for something that
most people might glance at and say, "Nice work..." as they wander over to
look at the next guy's machine. I'm not belittling the people who DO get
intense pride at those things...heck, I admire them, but I'm not the like
purist who left a post a couple of weeks ago saying that Van was taking the
fun out of this by pre-punching skins, etc. At what point will the purist
say that "we're just assembling parts instead of creating an airplane"? I'll
bet this guy doesn't make his own aluminum out of bauxite, either.
No, your message wasn't condescending...I appreciate the sentiments. I'd
rather spend that time in the air or with my family than sweating out
measuring gaps with a micrometer. Thanks for the encouragement.
Jim
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <Jim=Preston%10AF%AFRESEM(at)wrb.afres.af.mil> (Maj, 303FS, Whiteman AFB, MO, |
DSN 975-3620 or 3489)
| Subject: | How Did You Do It? |
I have a bunch of questions regarding this whole process; I'm getting closer
than ever to making the big jump, but I probably still need the answers to
these questions. (This is the first of many lists you'll see from
me...sorry.)
1. How did you RV'ers talk your spouses into this whole thing? Mine is VERY
anti-RV right now; her [most printable] quote was, "This is the dumbest idea
you've ever come up with!"
2. What is a ballpark figure for an average airplane? Without having spent a
dime on this project so far, my "druthers" are to build an RV-6 with an O-360
and constant speed prop (brand new, of course), full IFR, electric trim, and
any other bells & whistles. I'm thinking around $40,000...about right?
3. How long are people taking to REALLY build their airplanes? Van's is
saying about 2.5 years for working folks with families...if this is right,
about how much time per day/week are you putting in? Do you still have a
family life? Can my 15 year old son and 7 year old daughter participate?
(The real question is, will my wife WANT to play?)
4. How tough is it REALLY to build this thing? As an A-10 pilot, I know a
lot of our maintenance guys who do sheet metal and electrical work who might
be willing to help me out, but can a guy who can flail around the house
realistically build an airplane?
Any responses are welcome...you guys are my inspiration.
Jim
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KHarrill(at)aol.com |
I hope to finish the empennage of my RV - 6 project in the next couple
of months. So far I have used Sherwin - Williams wash primer on the interior
structure. It occurs to me that there may be a better primer to use on the
wing spars. Any suggestions and/or information will be appreciated!!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Graves <mgraves(at)ptdcs2.intel.com> |
| Subject: | How Did You Do It? |
Jim writes:
> 1. How did you RV'ers talk your spouses into this whole thing? Mine is VERY
> anti-RV right now; her [most printable] quote was, "This is the dumbest idea
> you've ever come up with!"
Someone once told me that pilot's second wives like airplanes. (don't tell her
I said that).
> 3. How long are people taking to REALLY build their airplanes? Van's is
> saying about 2.5 years for working folks with families...if this is right,
> about how much time per day/week are you putting in? Do you still have a
> family life? Can my 15 year old son and 7 year old daughter participate?
> (The real question is, will my wife WANT to play?)
According to my calculations, if you were to spend 8 hours on a saturday every
week and stay out of the shop during the weekdays, that would rack up 416 hours
per year. Since the time estimate from Van's is 2000 ~ hours, you will spend
about 5 years. Ken Scott from Van's once told me that 5 years of your life will
go by anyway. What will you have to show for it? a) beer, tv, & frozen food, or
b) a homebuilt, handcrafted airplane.
If you can afford to do this and you have the guts to tackle a huge project and
the humility to ask for help, then you can do this. Good luck
Mike Graves
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: How Did You Do It? |
>
> 1. How did you RV'ers talk your spouses into this whole thing? Mine is VERY
> anti-RV right now; her [most printable] quote was, "This is the dumbest idea
> you've ever come up with!"
I think education is the only answer. Most people seem to have a really
skewed idea of what aviation is about, not to mention homebuilts. I've
seen that "this guy's REALLY crazy" look so many times now that I often
actually avoid mentioning that I'm building an airplane a lot of the
time even when the topic of conversation is flying. Most people just
don't realize what you can do with a personal, high-performance
airplane, not to mention the skills you acquire and personal
achievement of building one yourself. Face it, the first thing most
people think of when you talk about building your own plane is of this
nut in his garage slapping together some bamboo, cloth, bailing wire
and a lawnmower engine and rolling it off the roof of a barn. Somehow
you have to convince her that what you are building will in fact be a
REAL airplane, and one that can get you _and_ her to strange, exciting,
far-away places.
I hope you do get her to sign on, otherwise either your marriage or the
RV will be doomed from the start.
>
> 2. What is a ballpark figure for an average airplane? Without having spent a
> dime on this project so far, my "druthers" are to build an RV-6 with an O-360
> and constant speed prop (brand new, of course), full IFR, electric trim, and
> any other bells & whistles. I'm thinking around $40,000...about right?
Airframe kit: $11,000
New O-360: 18,000
C/S Prop/gov: 4,000
Tools: 2,000
--------
35,000
That's with no paint, avionics, instruments, plumbing, wiring, or fancy
IFR gear. I'd make it more like $45-50k if you're set on new engine &
"full IFR".
> 3. How long are people taking to REALLY build their airplanes? Van's is
> saying about 2.5 years for working folks with families...if this is right,
> about how much time per day/week are you putting in? Do you still have a
> family life? Can my 15 year old son and 7 year old daughter participate?
> (The real question is, will my wife WANT to play?)
I'm 2.5 years into it and pretty much finished with just the wings and
tail. Going a lot slower than I'd hoped, and I don't have kids, but I
do have an active "family life" with my wife. And unfortunately
although she is supportive of the project she really isn't much help in
the shop.
I think it depends on what else you have going. If I didn't have a yard
and house to keep up, and didn't mind not flying ever until my plane
was done, and only put in 40 hour weeks at work, and was willing to
spring for pre-build spars and such, then it'd be a lot easier to get
it done and still have some time left over for the family.
The 15 year old son could be a BIG help -- get him excited about it
and you'll get done a LOT faster I'll bet. Your daughter might be able
to help too if you can teach her to deburr, but unfortunately my experience
with 7 year olds is their attention span isn't long, and deburring is
pretty tedious.
> 4. How tough is it REALLY to build this thing? As an A-10 pilot, I know a
> lot of our maintenance guys who do sheet metal and electrical work who might
> be willing to help me out, but can a guy who can flail around the house
> realistically build an airplane?
Can you learn? Do you like tools? Do you have PATIENCE? Do you think you would
ENJOY spending hours and hours and hours in your garage working on the thing
as opposed to just wanting to fly it? If the answer is "all of the above", then
yes you can do it.
Randall Henderson
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
rv-list(at)matronics.com
| From: | ammeterj(at)ammeterj.seanet.com (John Ammeter) |
| Subject: | Re: How Did You Do It? |
I'll try to address your questions; bear in mind these opinions are worth
what you pay for them.
wrote:
>I have a bunch of questions regarding this whole process; I'm getting closer
>than ever to making the big jump, but I probably still need the answers to
>these questions. (This is the first of many lists you'll see from
>me...sorry.)
>
>1. How did you RV'ers talk your spouses into this whole thing? Mine is VERY
>anti-RV right now; her [most printable] quote was, "This is the dumbest idea
>you've ever come up with!"
>
Don't try "If you REALLY loved me you would let me build this airplane".
Guaranteed to really piss her off. On a more practical note; mention the
fact you'll be home a lot more (while building). Also, make darn sure all
the Honey do's are done.
>2. What is a ballpark figure for an average airplane? Without having spent a
>dime on this project so far, my "druthers" are to build an RV-6 with an O-360
>and constant speed prop (brand new, of course), full IFR, electric trim, and
>any other bells & whistles. I'm thinking around $40,000...about right?
>
I built an RV-6 with a decent VFR panel, a used engine that cost $3500,
fixed pitch wood prop. It cost me about $26,000 including $2500 for a 5
foot paint job. I think that $40,000 will build a really good VFR aircraft
but IFR may be somewhat more cost. The engine, prop, governor and kit will
cost about $31,000 alone if purchased new; leaves only $9,000 for avionics,
instruments, lord mounts, battery, paint, upholstery, spinner, controls,
wiring, etc. Don't think you can build it for $40,000.
3. How long are people taking to REALLY build their airplanes? Van's is
>saying about 2.5 years for working folks with families...if this is right,
>about how much time per day/week are you putting in? Do you still have a
>family life? Can my 15 year old son and 7 year old daughter participate?
>(The real question is, will my wife WANT to play?)
>
I took 3 1/2 years building 2 to 4 nights a week (3 hours each) and one day
on the weekend. The other day was my wife's day. I also would drop
whatever (unless breakable) I was doing whenever she came down to the
shop/garage and asked me to help her with whatever. I think that is why she
supported me in the RV building and flying. Can your kids participate?
Absolutely, in fact, they will probably end up your best helpers and fan club.
>4. How tough is it REALLY to build this thing? As an A-10 pilot, I know a
>lot of our maintenance guys who do sheet metal and electrical work who might
>be willing to help me out, but can a guy who can flail around the house
>realistically build an airplane?
I used to say that if you could crush a beer can without cutting yourself
that you could build an RV. My past experience with aluminum was limited to
pretty much that same beer can. I had worked in wood and am an electrician
by trade so can read a blueprint/diagram. It will be challenging but, if
you can follow instructions and be willing to learn, your RV will take flight.
John Ammeter
RV-6 N16JA
>
>Any responses are welcome...you guys are my inspiration.
>
>Jim
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JamesCone(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Marhyde Single Stage Self Etching Primer |
Available at a 20% discount from:
SMG Sales
155 Weldon Parkway, Suite 107
St. Louis, MO 63043
(314) 569-1196
(800) 729-1243
Jim Cone
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JamesCone(at)aol.com |
James Cone
St. Charles, MO
jamescone(at)aol.com
RV-6A 22929 N929JC
TAIL, WINGS, & FUSELAGE COMPLED. WORKING ON FINISHING KIT.
FULL IFR PANEL, O-320E2D 160HP, MICRO MONITOR ENGINE INSTRUMENT SYSTEM,
ELLISON THROTTLE BODY, SKY-TECH STARTER, PELICAN 65 AMP ALTERNATOR, SENSENICH
FIXED PITCH PROP, SLIDER CANOPY, ELECTRIC FLAPS, ELECTRIC TRIM, MANUAL
AILERON TRIM, SELF DESIGNED MANUAL RUDDER TRIM. HOPE TO BE FLYING NEXT YEAR.
AIRLINE CAPTAIN FOR TWA. RETIRED LT. COL. USAF PILOT. AVIATION NEWSPAPER
COLUMNIST. EDITOR OF VAN'S AIR FORCE, TRI-STATE WING NEWSLETTER. COMPLETED
AND FLEW A SEA HAWKER COMPOSITE AMPHIBIAN THAT HAS SINCE BEEN SOLD. EAA
FLIGHT ADVISOR FOR HIGH PERFORMANCE AIRCRAFT. VICE PRESIDENT OF EAA CHAPTER
32, ST. LOUIS, MO.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JamesCone(at)aol.com |
Stick with Sears. You will pay a bit more but you will be much happier with
the results. Don't buy cheap tools. You will end up replacing them with
good ones later at a much higher total cost than if you just got the good
ones to start with.
Jim Cone, Owner of nearly every power tool Sears ever made, and very happy
with them.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JamesCone(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Firewall/Engine mount |
I also had the tooling holes in the wrong place. Mine were about 2" too high
and much too wide. I called Van's and Bill Benedict said to put a screw in
the holes to plug them. The idea is to center the engine mount on the
firewall. The dimensions are on the plans and they are correct. If you
drill one bottom hole and mount the engine mount with one bolt in that hole,
you can drill the other holes using the engine mount to drill through so that
the holes line up exactly.
Jim Cone
________________________________________________________________________________
(Soft*Switch Central V4L380P5) id 310713080095215FAOPARI;
| From: | "NMARSHAL" <NMARSHAL(at)AOPARI.remnet.rockwell.com> |
| Subject: | NOTE 08/03/95 15:06:00 |
subscribe nmarshal
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gregg L. Sloan" <gsloan(at)CapAccess.org> |
| Subject: | Re: How Did You Do It? |
On Wed, 2 Aug 1995 wrb.afres.af.mil!Jim=Preston%10AF%AFRESEM(at)matronics.com wrote:
>
> 1. How did you RV'ers talk your spouses into this whole thing? Mine is VERY
> anti-RV right now; her [most printable] quote was, "This is the dumbest idea
> you've ever come up with!"
This can be a big problem. You've got to change her thinking. You might
study her interests and see if you can blend them to building and flying
the RV. In my case, my wife is in to crafts and quilting. So she can
appreciate building and creating things. We also plan to use the RV to
travel to quilt shows around the country (that was a big seller). It's
important to have your wife on your side, otherwise there may be trouble
ahead.
Have your wife email my wife. Maybe mine can offer some encouragement.
Her name is Pat, email her at psloan(at)capaccess.org
good luck
Gregg Sloan_____gsloan(at)capaccess.org_____Herndon, Virginia__USA
RV-6A #22425
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | csanchez(at)BayNetworks.com (Cheryl Sanchez) |
>
> I hope to finish the empennage of my RV - 6 project in the next couple
>of months. So far I have used Sherwin - Williams wash primer on the interior
>structure. It occurs to me that there may be a better primer to use on the
>wing spars. Any suggestions and/or information will be appreciated!!!
>
I also used the Sherwin Williams wash primer on the tail of my
RV-3. When I was building the spars I wanted to do the alumiprep and
alodyne in addition to the primer. The Sherwin Williams product said
it was not to be used over alodyned aluminum. I turns out the the
Dupont Veriprime is ok over alumiprep/alodyne. So I used it for my
spars.
Both are good primers although I think it is easier to get
an even and thin coating with the Sherwin Williams primer.
Cheryl Sanchez
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ecole(at)ix.netcom.com (EDWARD COLE ) |
| Subject: | New Guy on the Block |
First with the formalities:
Ed Cole
10565 E. Estates Dr.
Cupertino, CA 95014
408-257-3281 H
408-737-7600 x6605 W
I am a Test Engineer with Maxim Integrated Products. I recently
purchased the preview plans for the RV-6 and plan to start around
Thanksgiving time. I have a fellow Cupertino friend who will also
be starting an RV-6 soon. AT the present time I'm collecting tool
catalogs and absorbing as much RV email, data, etc. that I can find.
I've made contact with 2 builders so far.
To start with, what is the rivet gun of choice?? 2x or 3x ???
Also, will a 3.5hp compressor with an 11 gal. tank do the job??
6 scfm at 90 psi.
Most importantly, is there anyone out there in a 50 mile radius of San
Jose who is currently flying an RV6 that would allow me to look at the
finshed product and possibly take me up for a ride???
I'll buy all the gas plus lunch !!!!!
And last of all, is there any events that might feature the
rv's coming up in the near future???
Any builder groups in the San Francisco Bay area???
Ok, enough questions....I'm off
Ed Cole
ecole(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com (Ross Mickey ) |
| Subject: | Fwd: How Did You Do It? |
Subject: How Did You Do It?
There have been a lot of good comments regarding this meaasage but I
might as well throw in my two cents worth.
1. How did you RV'ers talk your spouses into this whole thing? Mine is
VERY
anti-RV right now; her [most printable] quote was, "This is the dumbest
idea
you've ever come up with!"
My wife was also very negative. I'm not sure what happened to change
it. I remained excited about the project and then one day we went over
the money we had in our savings. We essentially split the money up,
she bought $3,000 worth of new sewing equiptment and I bought my tail
kit. I have worked on the project mainly between 5 am and 7 am, before
my wife, 2 year old and 7 year old walk up or between 10 pm and 12 pm,
after they are asleep and anytime during the weekend where I can slip
it in. The two kids make life very busy as you know. I still get
sniped at when she is grumpy but it passes.
3. How long are people taking to REALLY build their airplanes? Van's
is
saying about 2.5 years for working folks with families...if this is
right,
about how much time per day/week are you putting in? Do you still have
a
family life? Can my 15 year old son and 7 year old daughter
participate?
(The real question is, will my wife WANT to play?)
I bought my tail kit Nov 1993. It took 1 1/2 years for me to do the
tail and wings. I have always set a timeframe of 5-7 years so I don't
set myself up for letdowns or conflicts with family. I have promised
myself that I woun't have to find a "second wife who likes flyong."
4. How tough is it REALLY to build this thing? As an A-10 pilot, I
know a
lot of our maintenance guys who do sheet metal and electrical work who
might
be willing to help me out, but can a guy who can flail around the house
realistically build an airplane?
Any responses are welcome...you guys are my inspiration.
Jim
You spend alot of time stewing over how things go together and some
time cursing your mistakes but for the mostpart it is very
straightforward.
Good luck!!!!!
Ross Mickey
Bulkhead 605 (another jigsaw puzzle "now where is that piece of 2 3/4
X3 1/2 .032 I use for the spice plate@#*@#@&@#@!!!!!)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ecole(at)ix.netcom.com (EDWARD COLE ) |
| Subject: | Fwd: New Guy on the Block |
---- Begin Forwarded Message
(8.6.12/SMI-4.1/Netcom)
(8.6.12/SMI-4.1)
(8.6.12/SMI-4.1)
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 1995 08:50:51 -0700
From: ix.netcom.com!ecole(at)matronics.com (EDWARD COLE )
Subject: New Guy on the Block
First with the formalities:
Ed Cole
10565 E. Estates Dr.
Cupertino, CA 95014
408-257-3281 H
408-737-7600 x6605 W
I am a Test Engineer with Maxim Integrated Products. I recently
purchased the preview plans for the RV-6 and plan to start around
Thanksgiving time. I have a fellow Cupertino friend who will also
be starting an RV-6 soon. AT the present time I'm collecting tool
catalogs and absorbing as much RV email, data, etc. that I can find.
I've made contact with 2 builders so far.
To start with, what is the rivet gun of choice?? 2x or 3x ???
Also, will a 3.5hp compressor with an 11 gal. tank do the job??
6 scfm at 90 psi.
Most importantly, is there anyone out there in a 50 mile radius of San
Jose who is currently flying an RV6 that would allow me to look at the
finshed product and possibly take me up for a ride???
I'll buy all the gas plus lunch !!!!!
And last of all, is there any events that might feature the
rv's coming up in the near future???
Any builder groups in the San Francisco Bay area???
Ok, enough questions....I'm off
Ed Cole
ecole(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dierks(at)austin.ibm.com |
| Subject: | New Guy on the Block (fwd) |
A 2HP compressor has worked fine for me. May be on the ragged edge to
paint the entire aircraft but I will paint it in pieces anyway.
The riveting uses very little air.
The air drill is what sucks the air. Any die grinders use the most
air but you don't use that much (cutting canopy, etc).
I used the 2X gun for my RV4 as recommended by Sid Golden.
Herman
>
> To start with, what is the rivet gun of choice?? 2x or 3x ???
> Also, will a 3.5hp compressor with an 11 gal. tank do the job??
> 6 scfm at 90 psi.
>
Herman Dierks, Dept. E54S, AWSD Austin, Texas
mail: dierks(at)austin.ibm.com VM: DIERKS at AUSVM6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Wentz <Don_Wentz(at)ccm2.hf.intel.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Craftsmanship |
Jim, I wouldn't be discouraged by the quality of the RVs at Oshkosh, and whether
yours could 'measure-up'. I know that sometimes I start thinking that mine is
capable of winning a prize, then go someplace like that and realize how tough
the competition is! There are lots of excellent examples of the breed there,
and I have in fact heard builders shy away from parking there because of that.
Point is, the fact that you built it yourself and it is a solid safe airplane
should be #1 priority. If you get carried-away and make it real nice, oh well.
Be aware that usually the 2nd airplane or the retiree's airplane tends to be the
stand-out unit, as us working stiffs with kids building our first sometimes have
a tougher time of doing a 'showplane' job.
Build it quickly, build it light, then fly the heck out of it! Build your
showplane in another life....
BTW, Van's has a heck of a long ways to go before an RV will be "snap
together"!!!!! There's plenty of fun left. I think the main next improvement
would be assistance in aligning spar to spar, and control surface mount
locations.
Don 'The Duck' Wentz, N790DW, 180HP RV-6, #20369
Don,
Re your last concerning the amount of time guys will spend on their
projects versus what they get out of it...I think you made some excellent
points. I agree that you can spend hours, if not days, trying to make that
joint fit to 1/64" instead of 1/32 or even 1/16. At the Oshkosh Skystruck
seminar, Ken Scott said that the airplane doesn't know the difference between
1/32" or 1/16". Would it be worth the added aggravation for something that
most people might glance at and say, "Nice work..." as they wander over to
look at the next guy's machine. I'm not belittling the people who DO get
intense pride at those things...heck, I admire them, but I'm not the like
purist who left a post a couple of weeks ago saying that Van was taking the
fun out of this by pre-punching skins, etc. At what point will the purist say
that "we're just assembling parts instead of creating an airplane"? I'll bet
this guy doesn't make his own aluminum out of bauxite, either.
No, your message wasn't condescending...I appreciate the sentiments. I'd
rather spend that time in the air or with my family than sweating out
measuring gaps with a micrometer. Thanks for the encouragement.
Jim
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Graves <mgraves(at)ptdcs2.intel.com> |
guys,
Are there any "listers" that went to Oshkosh this year? I believe there
are some of us who are curious to know how it went.
Mike Graves
RV-6A in box on closet shelf.
Thoughts turn toward tools...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Cocker <jcocker(at)frontier.canrem.com> |
I am not at the painting stage, yet, bit as the wings and empannage are just
being stored.
Is it realistic to paint the RV in stages ? For example the wings are much
easier to paint while the surfaces can be vertical. They could be primed and
painted and left for trim till final assembly. Any ideas on this ?
Meanwhile I am busy looking for a 360, any leads would be welcome. John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David A. Barnhart" <barnhart(at)crl.com> |
| Subject: | Trimming skin overlap aft of rear spar |
A couple of months ago there was some discussoin on this list on this
subject. While the construction manual describes trimming the top skins
aft of the rear spar where they overlap so as to change the overlap joint
to an unsupported but joint, there was no mention of doing this for the
bottom skins.
Today I talked to VAN HIMSELF! and he said there is no need to trim
the bottom skins in this manner. (He said you could, but there was
no need to.)
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
rv-6 sn 23744
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JerryFlyRV(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: North Plains Coordinates |
>RVer's
>I would like someone to post the latitude/longitude coordinates for the
North
>Plains airport. Someone must have entered them in his or her GPS. Then=
, I
>won't have to strain my eyes looking at the Seattle Sectional figuring i=
t
out
>myself. There seems to be several private strips within a few miles of =
each
>other near HIO. I want to fly down to the potluck in Sept., weather
>permitting.
>Thanx,
>RGWELCH =
RG
Not sure if anyone responded to your quary about North Plains coordinates=
if
not here they are.
N45=B0 35.5'
W123=B0 00.6'
If you were to fly to HIO and then follow the heading of runway 30 you wo=
uld
find Sunset about 5mi on that heading (30) from HIO.
Hope this helps
Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS Hillsboro,OR
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | teleport.com!auer(at)matronics.com (Teleport.com!auer(at)matronics.com) |
Date: Sun, 30 Jul 95 08:22:49 -0500
From: "Dell M. Auer" <teleport.com!auer(at)matronics.com>
-- [ From: Dell M. Auer * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] --
Greetings Gang
Does any one know if Van got the hours off of his RV8 and did he make
it to OSH.
Regards
Dell
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | solar.sky.net!kvap(at)matronics.com (Solar.sky.net!kvap(at)matronics.com) |
Date: Sun, 30 Jul 95 19:47:44 -0600
From: "Kevin E. Vap" <solar.sky.net!kvap(at)matronics.com>
-- [ From: Kevin E. Vap * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] --
>Date: Sunday, 30-Jul-95 08:22 AM
>From: Dell M. Auer \ Internet: (teleport.com!auer@matronics.
com)
>Subject: rv8
>Greetings Gang
>Does any one know if Van got the hours off of his RV8 and did he make
>it to OSH.
>Regards
>Dell
I just got back this morning (Sunday @6:00 am after a 10 hour drive during
the night). Yes, the RV-8 was at the show (at the booth). It looked pretty
good (more room, bigger panel over the -4). I'll let the RV-4 experts
describe it better when they get back.
-Kevin Vap
"RV-6"
kvap@sky.net http://www.sky.net/~kvap
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | luis.madsen(at)tclbbs.com (Luis Madsen) |
| Subject: | Superior Air Parts fax number ? |
Date: Mon, 31 Jul 1995 11:06:13 GMT
From: ibm.net!luism(at)matronics.com (Luis Madsen)
Subject: Superior Air Parts fax number ?
Could anybody please help me with the fax number to Superior Air Parts?
What I have is the address:
14280 Gillis Road, Dallas, Texas 75244-3792; phone 800/299-5802.
This does not help me, as I can not dial a 800 number from Denmark.
Have any of you experience with the service and parts quality from them.
Luis Madsen, Denmark
luism(at)ibm.net
RV6 60%
luism(at)ibm.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ken.gray(at)tclbbs.com (Ken Gray) |
Date: Mon, 31 Jul 1995 22:45:33 -0500
From: bihs.net!klgray(at)matronics.com (Ken Gray)
Subject: Who are we
Ken Gray
Bryan, Texas
RV6 SN: 23069
Almost done with finish kit.
Setting it up for IFR, 0320 E2D, Fixed pitch.
Started October 1993
expect first flight December 95.
N number applied for.
________________________________________________________________________________
(Soft*Switch Central V4L380P5) id 844528000095216FAOPARI;
| From: | "NMARSHAL" <NMARSHAL(at)AOPARI.remnet.rockwell.com> |
| Subject: | NOTE 08/04/95 07:19:00 |
subscribe nmarshal(at)aopari.remnet.rockwell.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dick Steffens" <res6246(at)des.dukepower.com> |
Sometime ago I heard someone say that someone would have some new wing tips at
Oshkosh. Something about them coming from some testing program. Anything to
this?
Dick Steffens
RV-6 Sticking together the tanks
res6246(at)des.dukepower.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank K Justice <Frank_K_Justice(at)ccm.ssd.intel.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Firewall cutting |
>(I've been told by some to
>place the flanges on the engine side rather than hiding them between
>the firewall and angle. Any comments????)
It is more difficult to do a good job riveting the box and stiffeners on with
the box behind the firewall because its flanges distort everything.
Do not rivet the box on until much later when you have attached the center
rudder pedal support to the stiffener next to the box.
FKJ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jem(at)crl.nmsu.edu (Jim McDonald) |
I just committed what appears to be a major screw-up. I drilled the bottom
outboard (28 7/17" wide) skin to the top outboard side (28 11/16). I
didn't notice the differences until I started to drill the inboard skin. I
don't think there is anything I can do except replace the skin (I haven't
called Van's yet), but I'm not sure how they would ship a single skin
(unless I just went ahead and ordered by fuselage kit at the same time).
I read about single-piece top skins the in Justice instructions and might
just do that given my situation. He said Van's won't ship them
single-piece top skins. Where can I get them? (i.e., will anyone ship
them?)
Thanks,
Jim
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <Jim=Preston%10AF%AFRESEM(at)wrb.afres.af.mil> (Maj, 303FS, Whiteman AFB, MO, |
DSN 975-3620 or 3489)
| Subject: | How Do You Do It, Part II |
To all the folks who answered my first post, thanks a lot for the thoughtful
responses...to summarize, just about everybody thinks the project is doable,
that the wife needs to at least not actively oppose it, if not wholeheartedly
support it, and the kids can be a big help, both emotionally and physically.
That's great, but now brings up another of the wife's objections: why build a
2-place aircraft when you have a wife and kids? Mine are 15 and 7...now
maybe the 15 year old will be in college when I'm done with this thing, but
it'll be tough taking the wife and at that time 12 year old daughter on any
of these weekend getaways. Any good answers? (Mine sure as heck haven't
been good enough!)
Different subject: Oshkosh - to Mike Graves:
Yes, I was there, but only for the first official day, Thursday. I hung
around the Van's booth, bothering all of them and talking with Steve Barnard,
Van, Ken Scott, and Jerry & Judy VanGrunsven. I also drooled on most of the
RVs parked in the show area. (Sorry, Redbird!) I'd never been there before,
but I've gotta go back! A very intense experience...I camped, and that was
not a bad way to do it, except that not having an electrical plug-in ruined
my plan for air conditioning. It did get hot out there! The flying was
great, Van's had a bunch of folks signed up for demo rides, but I'll wait
until things are a little more relaxed, and I can spend some quality time
really flying the airplane. All in all, a great experience, and one I hope
to repeat someday.
To Don Wentz: if I can get an A-10 up to Portland someday, I'll show you
mine if you show me yours!
Jim
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TommyLewis(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | comments on Oshkosh |
guys,
Are there any "listers" that went to Oshkosh this year? I believe there
are some of us who are curious to know how it went.
Mike Graves
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------
My wife and I made our annual trip to Oshkosh last week in our Cessna 182.
Went in on Tuesday, left on Sunday. As usual, lot's of nice airplanes.
The RVs had a bigger space on the flight line than previous years, and it
was full with other RVs spread throughout the flight line. Some real nice
machines, one new unpainted one, couple for sale. Australian RV 4 was there,
he was very active in talking to people on flightline. We attended Van's
tent seminar on Sat on RV 6s, lots of questions, mostly "old" stuff for new
potential builders. As stated by others, RV 8 was there and got lots of
attention. Since Van had not completed testing, were very "uncommitted" as
to specs. Pretty much the usual conservative approach as we have all seen
from Van, and I do not fault him at all in this case. Some other
manufactures would have been accepting orders. Van's booth was very busy
every time I went by or stopped. Lot's of builders with projects were
talking about options. We did not attend Sunday night banquet as we headed
home.
Handheld GPSs were selling well, I bought the Garmin 90 unit, real nice on
flight home.
Tom Lewis - RV6a project, wings in jigs, working on first flap in N. Dallas
TommyLewis(at)AOM.COM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gil(at)rassp.hac.com (Gil Alexander) |
>Sometime ago I heard someone say that someone would have some new wing tips at
>Oshkosh. Something about them coming from some testing program. Anything to
>this?
>Dick Steffens
>RV-6 Sticking together the tanks
>res6246(at)des.dukepower.com
Yes,
... it was Steve Barnard of BAC. He had one (yes, only one) on
his 1994 award winning RV6A. His tests are not yet complete, so he said
wait a few months for more details.
His computer generated pressure distribution plots looked
interesting, and his tips may be coupled with a root fairing that is convex
instead of the usual concave (like a Spitfire).
I guess it's just wait and see ..... Gil Alexander, RV6A, #20701
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Ruble <cruble(at)cisco.com> |
>
> I read about single-piece top skins the in Justice instructions and might
> just do that given my situation. He said Van's won't ship them
> single-piece top skins. Where can I get them? (i.e., will anyone ship
> them?)
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jim
>
I bought my material from a place call (I think) AirParts. Their add
is in the back of Sport Aviation. It's the one with the lady that has been
standing in a roll of alclad for the last 25 years or so. I'm sure you've
seen the add. They are great people to work with. Give 'em a try.
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: New Guy on the Block |
>
> To start with, what is the rivet gun of choice?? 2x or 3x ???
> Also, will a 3.5hp compressor with an 11 gal. tank do the job??
> 6 scfm at 90 psi.
2x/3x seems to be a matter of personal preference. I prefer
the 2x as it's smaller size makes it easier to control with
one hand. I haven't found it to be lacking in hitting power
up to the larger 1/8" rivets on the RV. I have a 3x gun too
but I never use it.
Your compressor sounds like it should be adequate.
Randall Henderson
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Registration Numbers |
Can anyone tell me if I have this right? According to AC 20-27D
"Certification and Operation of Amateur-Built Aircraft" the following
possible registration numbers are legitimate:
N1
N11
N111
N11111
N1A
N11A
N111A
N1111A
N1AB
N11AB
N111AB
have I got it right?
And as I understand it, if the number(s) I want are available I can reserve
it for a year for $10, and $10 every year thereafter until registered.
Do you automatically get to reserve that number, or must you submit another
search request?
Thanks
Noel
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Remi D. Khu" <rkhu(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Trimming skin overlap aft of rear spar |
On Thu, 3 Aug 1995, David A. Barnhart wrote:
[Snip]
> ... While the construction manual describes trimming the top skins
> aft of the rear spar where they overlap so as to change the overlap joint
> to an unsupported but joint, there was no mention of doing this for the
> bottom skins.
>
> Today I talked to VAN HIMSELF! and he said there is no need to trim
> the bottom skins in this manner. (He said you could, but there was
> no need to.)
Did father Moses also provide any concrete rationale in support of this
decisive statement?
It appears to me, a non-engineer, that the section in question is not a
critical load structure and conceivably be held in place by putty. Ever
seen the trailing edge slats flapping on commercial jets?
This is not a flame-throw, I'm just anti-hero-worshipping...
--
R D Khu
rkhu(at)earthlink.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Remi D. Khu" <rkhu(at)earthlink.net> |
On 3 Aug 1995, John Cocker wrote:
> I am not at the painting stage, yet, bit as the wings and empannage are just
> being stored.
> Is it realistic to paint the RV in stages ? For example the wings are much
> easier to paint while the surfaces can be vertical. They could be primed and
> painted and left for trim till final assembly. Any ideas on this ?
>
> Meanwhile I am busy looking for a 360, any leads would be welcome. John
>
** An opinion from one who has yet to complete the left wing section...
I'm assuming you mean painting the subassemblies _immediately_ prior to
the final assembly.
The alternative of painting upon completion of the subs. themselves are...
IMHO, illogical due to the weathering of time. The likelihood of
having a mismatched paint scheme seems inevitable...
Back to my initial assumption, there are some negatives to this plan:
the real possibility of having the top-coat damaged from the unavoidable
handling and fitting. How often is it that a beautiful piece of Al
become marred, scratched, even dented by the time it resembles an a/c part?
Not the best supportive example but hey... Robert Shapiro I ain't !!
The basis of my opinion is based only exposure to building Revel models.
Those model airplane glue seems to know exactly when to run onto a
painted surface despite masking. Uncle Murphy is alive and well...
Presently undecided on this issue, but I'm leaning towards keeping the final
coat off the bird until the plane has flown off the required hours.
Who knows what evil lurks during that phase? Then I can leisurely mask and
spray her without distractions.
Thank you for your time in reading this neophyte's rambling thoughts.
R D Khu
rkhu(at)earthlink.net
RV-4 #3751
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | For Prospective Builders |
For all of you out there contemplating building here is some information you
may find helpful. Just finished tail. No flaws, wrinkles or dents or
missplaced holes. Had to rebuild trim tab from scratch but am very happy
with results. Found a few flaws in prints and manual but after a while you
begin to tune into building other than just following the numbers and you
begin to understand the process better. Received kit mid April, finished
August 5. 385 hours. Cost: 3111.64, includes tools, periodicals, videos,
tail kit, primers etc. Already owned grinder, radial arm saw, makita drill,
air compressor and various hand tools. Wing kit ordered but informed of 8
week wait. Keep that in mind when you begin building your tail. Need more
info, just ask.
Chet Razer RV6/6A ? in sparta, Ill
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Remi D. Khu" <rkhu(at)earthlink.net> |
On 3 Aug 1995, John Cocker wrote:
> I am not at the painting stage, yet, bit as the wings and empannage are just
> being stored.
> Is it realistic to paint the RV in stages ? For example the wings are much
> easier to paint while the surfaces can be vertical. They could be primed and
> painted and left for trim till final assembly. Any ideas on this ?
>
> Meanwhile I am busy looking for a 360, any leads would be welcome. John
>
** An opinion from one who has yet to complete the left wing section...
I'm assuming you mean painting the subassemblies _immediately_ prior to
the final assembly.
The alternative of painting upon completion of the subs. themselves are...
IMHO, illogical due to the weathering of time. The likelihood of
having a mismatched paint scheme seems inevitable...
Back to my initial assumption, there are some negatives to this plan:
the real possibility of having the top-coat damaged from the unavoidable
handling and fitting. How often is it that a beautiful piece of Al
become marred, scratched, even dented by the time it resembles an a/c part?
Not the best supportive example but hey... Robert Shapiro I ain't !!
The basis of my opinion is based only exposure to building Revel models.
Those model airplane glue seems to know exactly when to run onto a
painted surface despite masking. Uncle Murphy is alive and well...
Presently undecided on this issue, but I'm leaning towards keeping the final
coat off the bird until the plane has flown off the required hours.
Who knows what evil lurks during that phase? Then I can leisurely mask and
spray her without distractions.
Thank you for your time in reading this neophyte's rambling thoughts.
R D Khu
rkhu(at)earthlink.net
RV-4 #3751
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Remi D. Khu" <rkhu(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Trimming skin overlap aft of rear spar |
On Thu, 3 Aug 1995, David A. Barnhart wrote:
[Snip]
> ... While the construction manual describes trimming the top skins
> aft of the rear spar where they overlap so as to change the overlap joint
> to an unsupported but joint, there was no mention of doing this for the
> bottom skins.
>
> Today I talked to VAN HIMSELF! and he said there is no need to trim
> the bottom skins in this manner. (He said you could, but there was
> no need to.)
Did father Moses also provide any concrete rationale in support of this
decisive statement?
It appears to me, a non-engineer, that the section in question is not a
critical load structure and conceivably be held in place by putty. Ever
seen the trailing edge slats flapping on commercial jets?
This is not a flame-throw, I'm just anti-hero-worshipping...
--
R D Khu
rkhu(at)earthlink.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Remi D. Khu" <rkhu(at)earthlink.net> |
Come on guys!!! This is ridiculous.. first of all, these "Who are we"
crap is garbage info anyhow. I care about who you are as much as how you
concern you're about me. Give me a break guys...
The digests are packed as it is... send your stuff to the guy who posted
it. He specifically said EMAIL to HIM NOT THE LIST!!
Later!
rk
rkhu(at)earthlink.net
PS: Direct your remarks on this TO MY EMAIL!! This list is not the place!!
I'll make sure it receives the attn it deserves... your flames and
such... > /dev/null!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dierks(at)austin.ibm.com |
| Subject: | Wing skins (fwd) |
You may be able to find aircraft grade AL skins locally.
Check with you metal supply houses.
For example here in Austin, I have bought 2024T3 alclad in .025 and .032
from Trident. You usually have to buy an entire sheet (4x12ft I think).
It was about $75 when I bought a sheet about 3 Yrs ago.
It has prob. went up some in price.
It is always nice to have some extra around or maybe you can split a
half sheet with some other homebuilder (thats what I did) but on
a fwd Fuselage skin on RV4.
Trident also has large shears and may be able to cut it for you for
and extra fee.
Otherwise, just roll it up and take it home and cut it.
Herman
>
> I read about single-piece top skins the in Justice instructions and might
> just do that given my situation. He said Van's won't ship them
> single-piece top skins. Where can I get them? (i.e., will anyone ship
> them?)
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jim
>
>
Herman Dierks, Dept. E54S, AWSD Austin, Texas
mail: dierks(at)austin.ibm.com VM: DIERKS at AUSVM6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dierks(at)austin.ibm.com |
| Subject: | Registration Numbers (fwd) |
I don't think some of your numbers are valid.
Here is part of what I posted a few weeks back from the same doc you
are referencing:
Note that there are rules about N numbers.
It can not start with the letters O or I.
It may not exceed 5 symbols following the N
The symbols may be all numbers (N10000) , one to four numbers and a suffex
letter, (N1000U) one to three numbers and two suffix letters (N100AB)
The first zero (0) must be preceeded by a number 1-9.
Therefore, I think you are violating the rule 'one to four numbers AND
a suffex. It would have to be N1A for example and not N1.
Yes, $10 then 10.00 per yr until you assign it to a registered AC.
or if it expires you start over again.
Herman
> Subject: Registration Numbers
>
> Can anyone tell me if I have this right? According to AC 20-27D
> "Certification and Operation of Amateur-Built Aircraft" the following
> possible registration numbers are legitimate:
>
> N1
> N11
> N111
> N11111
> N1A
> N11A
> N111A
> N1111A
> N1AB
> N11AB
> N111AB
>
> have I got it right?
>
> And as I understand it, if the number(s) I want are available I can reserve
> it for a year for $10, and $10 every year thereafter until registered.
>
> Do you automatically get to reserve that number, or must you submit another
> search request?
>
> Thanks
> Noel
>
--
--------------------------------------------------------
*NOTICE for internet mail*: Any ideas or thoughts expressed here are my
own and are independent of my employer.
Herman Dierks, Dept. E54S, AWSD Austin, Texas
AIX Network Performance Measurement/Analysis
phone: TL 678-2831 outside: (512) 838-2831
ZIP: 9632 fax: 512-838-1801
mail: dierks(at)austin.ibm.com VM: DIERKS at AUSVM6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | J.Ken_Hitchmough(at)magic.ca (J.Ken Hitchmough) |
>I am not at the painting stage, yet, bit as the wings and empannage are just
>being stored.
>Is it realistic to paint the RV in stages ? For example the wings are much
>easier to paint while the surfaces can be vertical. They could be primed and
>painted and left for trim till final assembly. Any ideas on this ?
John, Tony Bengelis did some articles on painting the 'plane. I'll try and dig
them out for the next time we meet.
Ken
--
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Magic Online Services Toronto Inc. (416) 591-6490
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Fwd: Registration Numbers |
(Michael McGee) writes:
>the "N1" is spoken for.
>Formerlly by an old Coast Guard "brass hauler" and currently by a FAA
>aircraft.
I was only using the registration numbers as an example of the possible
variations. "I" and "O" excepted, of course.
Noel
---------------------
From: teleport.com!jmpcrftr(at)matronics.com (Michael McGee)
Date: 95-08-05 00:57:17 EDT
>Can anyone tell me if I have this right? According to AC 20-27D
>"Certification and Operation of Amateur-Built Aircraft" the following
>possible registration numbers are legitimate:
>
>N1
>N11
>N111
>N11111
---snip---
As I recall from an old Flying magazine, the "N1" is spoken for.
Formerlly by an old Coast Guard "brass hauler" and currently by a FAA
aircraft.
Mike
Mike McGee & Jackie Stiles jmpcrftr(at)teleport.com
RV-6 ..sn 23530.. (in the "plans" still) .. shop almost ready ...
SHOP: ++++++---- (It's full of junk from movin' in ..mnph..)
TAIL: ----------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kksys!showpg!jpl (Joe Larson) |
> > Richard asked if it were possible to make a electronicly controlled
> > trim system.
>
> i definitely think going digital is overkill...
>
> The best way to make such a system (IMHO) is analog.
I'm a bit behind in reading my email, so if someone has already suggested
this, I apoligize.
I learned to fly in Cessna 152s. The 152s at my FBO, at least, all have
a slider switch with detents at 10 and 20 degrees. Full flaps is 30. You
move the slider to the appropriate spot, and the flaps go to that spot.
My RV *will* have a similar system. As one of the posters explained, when
I'm going from 10 degrees to 20 degrees, I have a things that I want to
deal with that are a lot more important than making sure I stop the flaps
at the desired place. Set the switch and ignore the darned thing.
My approach... I was going to steal one off a crashed Cessna. Why reinvent
the wheel? Everything we want, all TSO'd and everything, is available for
use. You just need to give a call to your favorite aircraft junkyard and
ask if they have any 152s or 172s you can steal parts off of.
Of course, if someone comes out with a kit of some sort for this, I would
consider that, too. Or I might ask a friend of mine who likes to play with
this stuff more than I do if he can design one for me. I bet he would get
a kick out of it, and I know he'll trade his design time for some flight
time in the completed airplane.
-Joe
--
Joe Larson jpl(at)showpg.mn.org 612-595-9690(w)
Showpage Software, Inc.
435 Ford Rd, Suite 315
St. Louis Park, Mn 55426 Future RV-6A pilot.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JerryFlyRV(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Trimming skin overlap aft of rear spar |
David wrote
>> Today I talked to VAN HIMSELF! and he said there is no need to trim
>> the bottom skins in this manner. (He said you could, but there was
>> no need to.)
> Remis' reply
>Did father Moses also provide any concrete rationale in support of this
>decisive statement?
>
>It appears to me, a non-engineer, that the section in question is not a
>critical load structure and conceivably be held in place by putty. Ever
>seen the trailing edge slats flapping on commercial jets?
>
>This is not a flame-throw, I'm just anti-hero-worshipping...
>
> --
>R D Khu
>rkhu(at)earthlink.net
Remi
You don't have to be a engineer to figure out why the top is cut and the
bottom does not have to be, first the top is cut so there is a smooth surface
where the top of the flap meets the bottom of the wing skin, as there is no
meeting on the bottom, the bottom wing skins do not need to be cut.......
Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JerryFlyRV(at)aol.com |
Remi writes
>Come on guys!!! This is ridiculous.. first of all, these "Who are we"
>crap is garbage info anyhow. I care about who you are as much as how you
>concern you're about me. Give me a break guys...
>
>The digests are packed as it is... send your stuff to the guy who posted
>it. He specifically said EMAIL to HIM NOT THE LIST!!
>
>Later!
>
>rk
>rkhu(at)earthlink.net
>
>PS: Direct your remarks on this TO MY EMAIL!! This list is not the place!!
> I'll make sure it receives the attn it deserves... your flames and
> such... > /dev/null!
>
>
Remi
I for one like to know about other builder and don't think it is "*crap*" my
suggestion is, if you don't like it get off the list. Most of us do care
about the other builders and enjoy the comradeship, I cared enough about you
to look you up in Bakersfield two years ago remember?
Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jmbrown(at)netcom.netcom.com (John Brown) |
| Subject: | CHANGE OF ADDRESS |
I don't know if this is the correct place to do this or not. Could
the list gods change my email address
FROM: jmbrown(at)netcom.com
thanks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rfrawley(at)cisco.com |
>HI,
This info is great..been down under I get see where folks are and what they
are doing...it also gives me the chance to make some new friends when I go
to the states..
From: aol.com!JerryFlyRV(at)matronics.com
>Precedence: bulk
>Date: Sun, 6 Aug 1995 15:51:03 -0400
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Who are we
>
>
>Remi writes
>>Come on guys!!! This is ridiculous.. first of all, these "Who are we"
>>crap is garbage info anyhow. I care about who you are as much as how you
>>concern you're about me. Give me a break guys...
>>
>>The digests are packed as it is... send your stuff to the guy who posted
>>it. He specifically said EMAIL to HIM NOT THE LIST!!
>>
>>Later!
>>
>>rk
>>rkhu(at)earthlink.net
>>
>>PS: Direct your remarks on this TO MY EMAIL!! This list is not the place!!
>> I'll make sure it receives the attn it deserves... your flames and
>> such... > /dev/null!
>>
>>
>
>Remi
>I for one like to know about other builder and don't think it is "*crap*" my
>suggestion is, if you don't like it get off the list. Most of us do care
>about the other builders and enjoy the comradeship, I cared enough about you
>to look you up in Bakersfield two years ago remember?
>
>Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS
Regards
Richard Frawley
Cisco Systems Australia
------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Richard Frawley | |
| Mgr, Strategic Opportunities | || || * * * |
| Phone: 61-2-935-4123 | || || - * | | | * - |
| Mobile: 61-18-260-594 | |||| |||| |o|*| | | | |*|o| |
| Fax: 61-2-957-4077 | ..:||||||:..:||||||:..| |===========| | |
| Email:rfrawley(at)cisco.com | cisco Systems Australia |
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pager on 61-2-430-6381...leave a message with your number to call..
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Remi D. Khu" <rkhu(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Trimming skin overlap aft of rear spar |
On Sun, 6 Aug 1995 aol.com!JerryFlyRV(at)matronics.com wrote:
>
> David wrote
>
> >> Today I talked to VAN HIMSELF! and he said there is no need to trim
> >> the bottom skins in this manner. (He said you could, but there was
> >> no need to.)
>
> > Remis' reply
>
> >Did father Moses also provide any concrete rationale in support of this
> >decisive statement?
> >
> >It appears to me, a non-engineer, that the section in question is not a
> >critical load structure and conceivably be held in place by putty. Ever
> >seen the trailing edge slats flapping on commercial jets?
> >
> >This is not a flame-throw, I'm just anti-hero-worshipping...
> >
> > --
> >R D Khu
> >rkhu(at)earthlink.net
>
> Remi
> You don't have to be a engineer to figure out why the top is cut and the
> bottom does not have to be, first the top is cut so there is a smooth surface
> where the top of the flap meets the bottom of the wing skin, as there is no
> meeting on the bottom, the bottom wing skins do not need to be cut.......
> Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS
>
Jerry,
Maybe you might want to re-read my post better... cuz your reply has
nothing to do with my comments.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Remi D. Khu" <rkhu(at)earthlink.net> |
On Sun, 6 Aug 1995 aol.com!JerryFlyRV(at)matronics.com wrote:
>
> Remi writes
> >Come on guys!!! This is ridiculous.. first of all, these "Who are we"
> >crap is garbage info anyhow. I care about who you are as much as how you
> >concern you're about me. Give me a break guys...
> >
> >The digests are packed as it is... send your stuff to the guy who posted
> >it. He specifically said EMAIL to HIM NOT THE LIST!!
> >
> >Later!
> >
> >rk
> >rkhu(at)earthlink.net
> >
> >PS: Direct your remarks on this TO MY EMAIL!! This list is not the place!!
> > I'll make sure it receives the attn it deserves... your flames and
> > such... > /dev/null!
> >
> >
>
> Remi
> I for one like to know about other builder and don't think it is "*crap*" my
> suggestion is, if you don't like it get off the list. Most of us do care
> about the other builders and enjoy the comradeship, I cared enough about you
> to look you up in Bakersfield two years ago remember?
>
> Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS
>
Jerry,
Since you demonstrated your caring concern and have extended yourself so
graciously "two years ago", how about showing the same concern towards the
already saturated network bandwidth from superfluous exchanges like we
are currently engaged in. Besides.. the original poster explicitly
request that such replies are 'DIRECTED TO HIS EMAIL'. Spare me the CRAP
Jerry, every lister knows about you and your "3rd customer built RV-6" and
your other attributes...
One more thing, since when are you the duly elected to speak for the masses?
While I'm at it, please read the words... not the blank areas. I will
entertain any replies you have in email... that's privately if you can
understand that concept. Let's spare the rest of the other folks the
ensuing garbage that will occur from this exchange.
Until next time... fire away!!
Remi
rkhu(at)earthlink.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | J.Ken_Hitchmough(at)magic.ca (J.Ken Hitchmough) |
| Subject: | To Austin in Vancouver |
Hi Austin,
Send me your email address and I'll send you the name of the guy.
Ken
j.ken_hitchmough(at)magic.com
--
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Magic Online Services Toronto Inc. (416) 591-6490
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JerryFlyRV(at)aol.com |
>One more thing, since when are you the duly elected to speak for the masses?
>While I'm at it, please read the words... not the blank areas. I will
>entertain any replies you have in email... that's privately if you can
>understand that concept. Let's spare the rest of the other folks the
>ensuing garbage that will occur from this exchange.
>Until next time... fire away!!
>Remi
>rkhu(at)earthlink.net
Your right Remi I don't speak for the masses and this will be the end of it
in public.
Sorry if I offened anyone in my response to Remi Khu.
Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS (Going back to flying my RV-6)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Remi D. Khu" <rkhu(at)earthlink.net> |
On Mon, 7 Aug 1995 cisco.com!rfrawley(at)matronics.com wrote:
> >HI,
>
>
> This info is great..been down under I get see where folks are and what they
> are doing...it also gives me the chance to make some new friends when I go
> to the states..
I don't think it's a bad idea either... I think the initial idea is to
GATHER the data by one individual (the original poster) for later
dissemination of a LIST. That concept is simple yet I still see these
sporadic posts of "Who we are" when the compiler expicitly request for
them to be sent to his private email address (which he had enclosed not
once but TWICE!)
THAT... is my contention and gripe. Enough said..
Remi
rkhu(at)earthlink.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dorothy.Brecheisen(at)uni.edu |
Please remover me from the RV-List. Thanks. My address is Brecheisen(at)UNI.EDU.
wspplPLEAA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gregg L. Sloan" <gsloan(at)CapAccess.org> |
Just a friendly reminder:
People on this list are generally polite and well-meaning. Most questions
and comments are sincere and honest. When replies using comments like
"father Moses" "This is not a flame-throw, I'm just
anti-hero-worshipping.." and "Who are we crap is garbage" are used, it
does not usually make the writer very popular. Many people (myself
included) are offended by such condescending and derogatory remarks.
Most people are on this list to learn anything they can about RVs; this is
what the list is for. I learn somthing from almost every post.
Everybody, just ask your questions and make your comments in a civilized way
and take it easy. And remember what this list is really about:
RVs..RVs..RVs..RVs.
Gregg Sloan_____gsloan(at)capaccess.org_____Herndon, Virginia__USA
RV-6A #22425
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David A. Barnhart" <barnhart(at)crl.com> |
| Subject: | Re: How Do You Do It, Part II |
On Fri, 4 Aug 1995 Jim=Preston%10AF%AFRESEM(at)wrb.afres.af.mil wrote:
> That's great, but now brings up another of the wife's objections: why build a
> 2-place aircraft when you have a wife and kids? Mine are 15 and 7...now
> maybe the 15 year old will be in college when I'm done with this thing, but
> it'll be tough taking the wife and at that time 12 year old daughter on any
> of these weekend getaways. Any good answers? (Mine sure as heck haven't
> been good enough!)
It depends upon the type of flying you do. I owned 4-seat airplanes for
10 years and alomost NEVER had anyone in the back seat. In fact, All of
my REALLY enjoyable flights have been when I've been alone. You have to
decide what you are going to do with the airplane. For me, it was easy,
I just reflected upon how I had been using an airplane for the past 10 years.
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
rv-6 sn 23744
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David A. Barnhart" <barnhart(at)crl.com> |
On Fri, 4 Aug 1995, Jim McDonald wrote:
> I read about single-piece top skins the in Justice instructions and might
> just do that given my situation. He said Van's won't ship them
> single-piece top skins. Where can I get them? (i.e., will anyone ship
> them?)
While I understand that Van's will not ship one-piece skins, I
investigated obtaining them locally. The local distributor in
the Phoeniz, AZ area is Capitol Metals. I would have to order a
4 x 12 sheet and have it sheared to size. A 4 x 12 sheet of .032
was going to be about $150. Capitol could shear it to size for me,
at an additional $20 charge.
Actually, shipping a sheet of aluminum is no big deal, you
just roll it up.
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
RV-6 sn 23744
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Miner" <dougm(at)qm.WV.TEK.COM> |
| Subject: | Re: Fwd- Registration Number |
RE>Fwd: Registration Numbers 8/7/95 9:30 AM
I have seen the Nike corporations G2B .. it is painted like a tennis shoe.. (not
kidding) and it's tail number is November One Kilo Echo... N1KE
word is that the NIKE boys approached the owner of that number and offered him
big bucks to part with it... can you imagine? er uhm... that was how many
zero's? uh sure... ~!~
D~
(Michael McGee) writes:
>the "N1" is spoken for.
>Formerlly by an old Coast Guard "brass hauler" and currently by a FAA
>aircraft.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | david_fried(at)smtpgwy.dehavilland.ca |
| Subject: | Oil pressure fittings |
In the excitement that comes with the arrival of a large and expensive
bit of hardware, it is possible to get carried away and forget some of
the small details.
My engine arrived the other month. After fiddling about (grunting,
straining, cursing...) for an hour or so it was hanging nicely from
it's dynafocal mount. After a brief rest and a short trip to Ken
Hitchmough's place we did the same to his engine in a third of the
time. The point is that the learning curve does work and that coming
in second can be nice.
Neither of us remembered that the oil pressure port is located rather
close to the upper right engine mount. I went back and read Tony B's
article warning of this problem and how it is nearly impossible to get
the fitting into place. Almost is the key here.
A 90 degree brass fitting with is available from ACS. Once this is in
the pressure port a straight restrictor fitting may be threaded into
it. This fitting is rather bulky, filing down the corners will ease
it past the mount. In Ken's case the threads of the port were cut so
that the fitting engaged early and was clear of the mount at the first
half turn.
I wasn't so lucky. After more sweating and cursing I did solve the
problem. Once I figured it out it took just seconds. Loosen the
mount bolt, slip a lever between the case and the face of the mount, a
little push and it is clear... easy.
Just a comment for everyone. Some of the exchanges this last weekend
were rather angry. This is a group of enthusiasts communicating to
share information and have some fun. Nobody is being paid or judged.
The only stupid question is the one that is unasked. Let's lighten up
please.
David Fried
DF-6
dfried(at)dehavilland.ca
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Graves <mgraves(at)ptdcs2.intel.com> |
| Subject: | Re: How Do You Do It, Part II |
Dave Barnhart wrote:
> It depends upon the type of flying you do. I owned 4-seat airplanes for
> 10 years and alomost NEVER had anyone in the back seat. In fact, All of
> my REALLY enjoyable flights have been when I've been alone. You have to
> decide what you are going to do with the airplane. For me, it was easy,
> I just reflected upon how I had been using an airplane for the past 10 years.
>
I totally agree. How many times do we *really* take more than one passenger?
For those trips where we need the extra room, there are many great FBO's that
would like to rent their planes at a (semi)reasonable rate. Until Van makes a
four seat airplane (unlikely), We'll have to be content. There are four seat
kitplanes available from other vendors but you won't find more performance and
fun for the dollar than the Van's RV series. $10,000 is a darn good price
considering other airplanes in the same league are asking $20-40,000 just for
the airframe alone! See if you can persuade your wife to make some airplane
parts with you and let her know how much you enjoy her company.
Good luck,
Mike Graves
RV-6A in box on closet shelf
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gil(at)rassp.hac.com (Gil Alexander) |
| Subject: | Re: Registration Numbers (fwd) |
> I don't think some of your numbers are valid.
> Here is part of what I posted a few weeks back from the same doc you
> are referencing:
> Note that there are rules about N numbers.
> It can not start with the letters O or I.
> It may not exceed 5 symbols following the N
> The symbols may be all numbers (N10000) , one to four numbers and a suffex
> letter, (N1000U) one to three numbers and two suffix letters (N100AB)
> The first zero (0) must be preceeded by a number 1-9.
>
> Therefore, I think you are violating the rule 'one to four numbers AND
> a suffex. It would have to be N1A for example and not N1.
Actually N1 is used by the head of the FAA, and was parked near
the FBO area at Oshkosh. I have also seen it at Minden NV when the FAA
head was taken for a glider ride (around the course during the Hitachi
Invitational Contest in the late 80's - some ride, even he barfed!) by Bill
Ivans, head of the CIVV(?) (glider section of the FAI). It is a 4 engined
Gulfstream jet I believe.
Sorry about the CIVV and FAI acronyms, but they are french, and I don't
have the english equivalents.
I think all of the number below are valid, but I doubt if any are
available.
Gil Alexander, RV6A, #20701, waiting for N64GA reservation ...
>
> Yes, $10 then 10.00 per yr until you assign it to a registered AC.
> or if it expires you start over again.
> Herman
>
>> Subject: Registration Numbers
>>
>> Can anyone tell me if I have this right? According to AC 20-27D
>> "Certification and Operation of Amateur-Built Aircraft" the following
>> possible registration numbers are legitimate:
>>
>> N1
>> N11
>> N111
>> N11111
>> N1A
>> N11A
>> N111A
>> N1111A
>> N1AB
>> N11AB
>> N111AB
>>
>> have I got it right?
>>
>> And as I understand it, if the number(s) I want are available I can reserve
>> it for a year for $10, and $10 every year thereafter until registered.
>>
>> Do you automatically get to reserve that number, or must you submit another
>> search request?
>>
>> Thanks
>> Noel
>>
>
>
>--
>--------------------------------------------------------
>*NOTICE for internet mail*: Any ideas or thoughts expressed here are my
> own and are independent of my employer.
>
>Herman Dierks, Dept. E54S, AWSD Austin, Texas
>AIX Network Performance Measurement/Analysis
>phone: TL 678-2831 outside: (512) 838-2831
>ZIP: 9632 fax: 512-838-1801
>mail: dierks(at)austin.ibm.com VM: DIERKS at AUSVM6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | James Caufield <caufield(at)sequent.com> |
>
> On Fri, 4 Aug 1995, Jim McDonald wrote:
>
> > I read about single-piece top skins the in Justice instructions and might
> > just do that given my situation. He said Van's won't ship them
> > single-piece top skins. Where can I get them? (i.e., will anyone ship
> > them?)
>
> While I understand that Van's will not ship one-piece skins, I
> investigated obtaining them locally. The local distributor in
> the Phoeniz, AZ area is Capitol Metals. I would have to order a
> 4 x 12 sheet and have it sheared to size. A 4 x 12 sheet of .032
> was going to be about $150. Capitol could shear it to size for me,
> at an additional $20 charge.
>
> Actually, shipping a sheet of aluminum is no big deal, you
> just roll it up.
>
So I was hanging out at Twin Oaks airport Saturday, and who shows up
but Van in the new RV-8. I was looking it over and noticed that it
had a 2-piece top wing skin.
I asked him why he of all people couldn't have used a single piece
of .032 for it. After all, he doesn't have to worry about shipping,
right? 8-)
Van's answer was:
"The single skin is heavier; you don't get performance by
being lazy."
Never a man to mince words.
I also noticed that the '8 had a single instrument that provided
airspeed, altitude, rate-of-climb and encoding for the transponder.
Nice and neat.
| From: | RUSS_NICHOLS_at_SAC__DATA__PROCESSING(at)fire.ca.gov |
>From RUSS_NICHOLS_at_SAC__DATA__PROCESSING Mon Aug 7 13:23:55 0700 1995 remote
from fire.ca.gov
From: RUSS_NICHOLS_at_SAC__DATA__PROCESSING(at)fire.ca.gov (RUSS NICHOLS)
Subject: primer interaction
Hello all...
I'm actually starting to get some work done on my airplane rather than
just the shop/garage! Now, I have a couple more priming questions.
A) To date, I've been doing the following for priming...
1) Alumiprep
2) Alodine
3) Zinc Oxide
I want to switch to either Dupont Variprime or Courtaulds epoxy
primer. Does anyone know if they will "react" with the zinc oxide? I
remember someone saying bad things happened when Variprime was sprayed
near Marhyde.
B) I still need to prime my elevator horns (weldments). What should
I use to clean them before I prime? Is alumiprep OK or should I get
something else?
thanks,
Russ Nichols
russ_nichols(at)fire.ca.gov
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Miner" <dougm(at)qm.WV.TEK.COM> |
| Subject: | Re: Registration Numbers (f |
RE>>Registration Numbers (fwd) 8/7/95 1:30 PM
oh man that reminds me of another ramp-rat story...
I was the flight line manager for a rather large FBO at HIO... We were expecting
that very G-2 of the FAA... I was standing on the ramp with my red carpet
to roll out after I parked em... it was late summer... ie: had just rained...
and I marshelled the airplane to stop....when the copilot opened the big door
that folds down from wayyyy up there... it ended up being right above a 2"deep
6'long 3'wide puddle of Oregon sunshine! I couldn't ask the pilot to restart
those huge rolls royces... so I stood back about ten feet and rolled my carpet
right up to the last step of the stairs... (through the puddle) I was embarrassed
as hell... but all the pilots of 'my' FBO were laughing and patting me
on the back and laughing and laughing... I can laugh now, but man was I as red
as that carpet.
D~
--------------------------------------
Date: 8/7/95 1:18 PM
From: Gil Alexander
> I don't think some of your numbers are valid.
> Here is part of what I posted a few weeks back from the same doc you
> are referencing:
> Note that there are rules about N numbers.
> It can not start with the letters O or I.
> It may not exceed 5 symbols following the N
> The symbols may be all numbers (N10000) , one to four numbers and a suffex
> letter, (N1000U) one to three numbers and two suffix letters (N100AB)
> The first zero (0) must be preceeded by a number 1-9.
>
> Therefore, I think you are violating the rule 'one to four numbers AND
> a suffex. It would have to be N1A for example and not N1.
Actually N1 is used by the head of the FAA, and was parked near
the FBO area at Oshkosh. I have also seen it at Minden NV when the FAA
head was taken for a glider ride (around the course during the Hitachi
Invitational Contest in the late 80's - some ride, even he barfed!) by Bill
Ivans, head of the CIVV(?) (glider section of the FAI). It is a 4 engined
Gulfstream jet I believe.
Sorry about the CIVV and FAI acronyms, but they are french, and I don't
have the english equivalents.
I think all of the number below are valid, but I doubt if any are
available.
Gil Alexander, RV6A, #20701, waiting for N64GA reservation ...
>
> Yes, $10 then 10.00 per yr until you assign it to a registered AC.
> or if it expires you start over again.
> Herman
>
>> Subject: Registration Numbers
>>
>> Can anyone tell me if I have this right? According to AC 20-27D
>> "Certification and Operation of Amateur-Built Aircraft" the following
>> possible registration numbers are legitimate:
>>
>> N1
>> N11
>> N111
>> N11111
>> N1A
>> N11A
>> N111A
>> N1111A
>> N1AB
>> N11AB
>> N111AB
>>
>> have I got it right?
>>
>> And as I understand it, if the number(s) I want are available I can reserve
>> it for a year for $10, and $10 every year thereafter until registered.
>>
>> Do you automatically get to reserve that number, or must you submit another
>> search request?
>>
>> Thanks
>> Noel
>>
>
>
>--
>--------------------------------------------------------
>*NOTICE for internet mail*: Any ideas or thoughts expressed here are my
> own and are independent of my employer.
>
>Herman Dierks, Dept. E54S, AWSD Austin, Texas
>AIX Network Performance Measurement/Analysis
>phone: TL 678-2831 outside: (512) 838-2831
>ZIP: 9632 fax: 512-838-1801
>mail: dierks(at)austin.ibm.com VM: DIERKS at AUSVM6
------------------ RFC822 Header Follows ------------------
Date: Mon, 07 Aug 1995 10:54:34 -0800
From: rassp.hac.com!gil(at)matronics.COM (Gil Alexander)
Subject: Re: Registration Numbers (fwd)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gil(at)rassp.hac.com (Gil Alexander) |
| Subject: | Re: Russ' questions |
**** Russ said ****
>
> Hello all...
>
> I'm actually starting to get some work done on my airplane rather than
> just the shop/garage! Now, I have a couple more priming questions.
>
> A) To date, I've been doing the following for priming...
>
> 1) Alumiprep
> 2) Alodine
> 3) Zinc Oxide
>
> I want to switch to either Dupont Variprime or Courtaulds epoxy
> primer. Does anyone know if they will "react" with the zinc oxide? I
> remember someone saying bad things happened when Variprime was sprayed
> near Marhyde.
Epoxy paints are good over most sound substrates. The Dexter Aerospace
(was Akzo) from Aircraft Spruce might be easier to obtain, and is
equivalent to Courtaulds. Scuff paint surfaces with red ScotchBrite and
then a solvent wipe. Use a solvent that won't attack the existing paint
:^) The automotive paint store should be able to give you a good
pre-paint solvent wipe solution.
>
> B) I still need to prime my elevator horns (weldments). What should
> I use to clean them before I prime? Is alumiprep OK or should I get
> something else?
I like cadmium plating, and they will clean the parts before plating.
Tony Bingelis in his books mentions something called "Ospho" for
cleaning 4130 steel parts.
QUESTION TO ALL:
I'm not familiar with this, could anyone provide more info???
... thanks ... Gil Alexander
>
> thanks,
>
> Russ Nichols
> russ_nichols(at)fire.ca.gov
> RV-6
Russ,
Your message to Jack Abell got through. I've met with him already,
and he only lives 3 miles away ... Gil A.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert Busick <rbusick(at)nmsu.edu> |
Jim
Can you tell me more about the micro engine monitor. I have the
manufactures poop sheet, but is it easy to build, how reliable do you
think it will be, do you really need all of the info provided, in IFR
will you trust the info and or reliability? Is it cheaper than buying
the instruments seperately? Any landmines to
watch out for? What about the Paul Harvey rest of the story?
Thanks
Bob Busick
RV-6
On Wed, 2 Aug 1995 aol.com!JamesCone(at)matronics.com wrote:
> James Cone
> St. Charles, MO
> jamescone(at)aol.com
> RV-6A 22929 N929JC
>
> TAIL, WINGS, & FUSELAGE COMPLED. WORKING ON FINISHING KIT.
> FULL IFR PANEL, O-320E2D 160HP, MICRO MONITOR ENGINE INSTRUMENT SYSTEM,
> ELLISON THROTTLE BODY, SKY-TECH STARTER, PELICAN 65 AMP ALTERNATOR, SENSENICH
> FIXED PITCH PROP, SLIDER CANOPY, ELECTRIC FLAPS, ELECTRIC TRIM, MANUAL
> AILERON TRIM, SELF DESIGNED MANUAL RUDDER TRIM. HOPE TO BE FLYING NEXT YEAR.
>
> AIRLINE CAPTAIN FOR TWA. RETIRED LT. COL. USAF PILOT. AVIATION NEWSPAPER
> COLUMNIST. EDITOR OF VAN'S AIR FORCE, TRI-STATE WING NEWSLETTER. COMPLETED
> AND FLEW A SEA HAWKER COMPOSITE AMPHIBIAN THAT HAS SINCE BEEN SOLD. EAA
> FLIGHT ADVISOR FOR HIGH PERFORMANCE AIRCRAFT. VICE PRESIDENT OF EAA CHAPTER
> 32, ST. LOUIS, MO.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CAT3TOOLS(at)aol.com |
RV6 - Two time award winner.
0320 E2D 150 HP
600 Hr. 1st. Major O.H. with logs
140 Hr. A.F.
Garman GPS Panel Mnt.
Mode C
Dual Controls
Intercom
Interior by DJ
N711KJ
Ho 515-432-5709
Wk 515-432-3660
$70,000
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com (Ross Mickey ) |
| Subject: | Are Videos Worth It??? Right side brakes?? |
I purchased George and Becky Orndorff's Empennage and Wing construction
videos. The Emp. video was quite helpful as I was totally "green". I
found the wing video to be entertaining but not as useful. Now that I
am starting the Fuselage, I am wondering if I should spring the $50 for
this video. Any comments????
Now that I'm writing, what about right side brakes?? I don't see the
point. ( I bet you -4 and -3 builders don't either!!!!!)
Ross Mickey
Still F605 (why is this seat belt bracket so ***##!@@ close to the edge
of the F-605B????)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RUSS_NICHOLS_at_SAC__DATA__PROCESSING(at)fire.ca.gov |
>From RUSS_NICHOLS_at_SAC__DATA__PROCESSING Mon Aug 7 16:00:50 0700 1995 remote
from fire.ca.gov
From: RUSS_NICHOLS_at_SAC__DATA__PROCESSING(at)fire.ca.gov (RUSS NICHOLS)
Subject: More primer questions
I just called Courtaulds to ask about pricing on their primers and was
immediately stumped. She asked me "which one"...
In the RV-Archive, I was able to find a reference to MIL-P 23377, type
1, class 1. That looks to be the one that I want. Of course, they
don't have any in stock right now. They do have class 2 in stock.
She gave me a kit price of $125 for the class 2 (yellow, by the way).
Since I don't have the MIL Spec, I don't know what class 2 means. Is
it heavier? Do I take even more years off my life by spraying that
one? Is it harder to handle? Should hold out for the type 1, class
1?
Locally, I can get Dupont Variprime at the prices below (in $/gal):
225 (alumiprep): 23
226 (alodine) 23
615 (primer) 80
616 (catalyst) 39
Do these prices sound about right?
thanks,
Russ Nichols
russ_nichols(at)fire.ca.gov
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert Busick <rbusick(at)nmsu.edu> |
Based upon my RV flight training with Mike Seager, we only used two flap
settings during landing, initial flap setting was 50%, followed by 100%
on final. During take offs we used 10%. I have about 4 hours in an RV-6
and I haven't a clue to where 10% or 50% positions are using electric trim.
But my
conclusion is that it really doesn't matter. If you must know exactly
then try and engineer some system to tell you. But with my limited
experience in flying an RV, and compared to a cessna, I am wondering why we
need flaps at all?
Bob Busick
RV-6
On Sun, 6 Aug 1995, Joe Larson wrote:
> > > Richard asked if it were possible to make a electronicly controlled
> > > trim system.
> >
> > i definitely think going digital is overkill...
> >
> > The best way to make such a system (IMHO) is analog.
>
> I'm a bit behind in reading my email, so if someone has already suggested
> this, I apoligize.
>
> I learned to fly in Cessna 152s. The 152s at my FBO, at least, all have
> a slider switch with detents at 10 and 20 degrees. Full flaps is 30. You
> move the slider to the appropriate spot, and the flaps go to that spot.
>
> My RV *will* have a similar system. As one of the posters explained, when
> I'm going from 10 degrees to 20 degrees, I have a things that I want to
> deal with that are a lot more important than making sure I stop the flaps
> at the desired place. Set the switch and ignore the darned thing.
>
> My approach... I was going to steal one off a crashed Cessna. Why reinvent
> the wheel? Everything we want, all TSO'd and everything, is available for
> use. You just need to give a call to your favorite aircraft junkyard and
> ask if they have any 152s or 172s you can steal parts off of.
>
> Of course, if someone comes out with a kit of some sort for this, I would
> consider that, too. Or I might ask a friend of mine who likes to play with
> this stuff more than I do if he can design one for me. I bet he would get
> a kick out of it, and I know he'll trade his design time for some flight
> time in the completed airplane.
>
> -Joe
>
> --
> Joe Larson jpl(at)showpg.mn.org 612-595-9690(w)
> Showpage Software, Inc.
> 435 Ford Rd, Suite 315
> St. Louis Park, Mn 55426 Future RV-6A pilot.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | List Update/Hurricane Erin Damage |
I hope to be wrapping up the "who are we" list this week. There are about
60 people on it currently. If you would like to be included, please send me
(rad(at)gulf.net) your info by the end of the week. Again I would ask that you
not send your individual info to the rv-list. I will post the compiled
version to everyone.
As I mentioned before, I live in Navarre. FL. Unfortunately, we were ground
zero for Hurricane Erin last Thursday. Our house had about $2500 damage to
the (my wifes) pool enclosure and decking. The RV project is unharmed
despite the rotten looking tree in our neighbors yard that leans toward my
garage. The golf course in our neighborhood estimates that they have 800 to
1000 trees down from the storm. There were 172 on just one hole! There is
a small (scary) grass strip on the bay that had about a dozen planes tied
down in the open. None of them appear to be damaged. North of here about
20 miles is Peter Prince Field (2R4). They had about a dozen planes tied up
in the open, about 10 in an open hanger, and a number of closed hangers.
The only real damage was to the planes in the open hanger. The entire
structure was blown away and the supporting beams hit any plane that was
near them. Unfortunately, my friends Grumman AA1-A is probably totalled as
a result. :-( From what he told me, there are about 6 that are damaged to
some degree. I haven't heard of much damage at Pensacola Regional. Why were
all the planes here, you ask? No one expected the storm to hit here. At
midnight Wednesday, the storm was heading for New Orleans. An hour later,
it turned North. We woke up to a surprise.
Russell Duffy
RV-6 sn-22407
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Graves <mgraves(at)ptdcs2.intel.com> |
> Tony Bingelis in his books mentions something called "Ospho" for
> cleaning 4130 steel parts.
>
I used this stuff one about ten years ago. It is a Phosphoric acid
solution that painters apply to rusted metal prior to painting. Strangely
enough, it is also an ingredient in a certain brand of root beer 8^).
Mike Graves
RV-6A in box on closet shelf
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Wentz <Don_Wentz(at)ccm2.hf.intel.com> |
| Subject: | Re: How Do You Do It, Part II (chatter) |
>That's great, but now brings up another of the wife's objections: why
>build a 2-place aircraft when you have a wife and kids?
Jim, I get asked that question a lot.
Why are you building an RV? Because it is sporty and goes upside down,
or so you can 'travel'? I built mine for me, so I can fly in a way not
possible in your store bought stuff. So I could stand beside it and say
"yep, I can't beleive I built the whole thing". I have no desire at all
to have an airplane that can carry 4 people, it just wouldn't be as fun
(think of your A-10 - is it more fun when you're just blasting around
with no ordinance, or when you're loaded down with bombs/missiles/cannon
rounds?). Flying is just for the fun and excitement of it, there is
nothing practical about it at all (for me, anyway).
Yes, I really enjoy the rare trip where Janet can go with me. And my
kids (5 & 8) are beginning to enjoy flying in it. But by far, the most
common mission is me and sometimes a local builder, just flying around
having fun. My wife and kids don't like most fly-ins anyway. They get
tired of "talking about airplanes" pretty quickly. And when I am at
one, I don't want to be worrying about where the kids are, are they out
of props, are they tugging at my leg "let's go dad, I'm bored"? No, I
want to be there looking at what I want, talking to who I want as long
as I want.
Sound selfish? I don't think so. I find other things to do with my
family that THEY want to do (next year we get a reasonably inexpensive
boat that will be a much better family toy than an airplane), and they
are happy to let me do my airplane thing. If I can include them now and
then, so much the better. But I don't compromise my airplane or an
event to do so.
Like a couple of listers responded, and I have heard it from others,
most of the time, it's just the pilot, or maybe one passenger.
The main thing to do is agree up front on WHEN you can do the airplane
thing. We had Sunday as family day, saturday as building day, and
evenings after the kids went to bed, unless something else was planned.
I was able to get 3000hrs into my project, plus design, get into
production, and market my landing lights, in just under 4 years, using
that schedule. As long as you can get her to agree, and show her that
you will make specific efforts to still be a part of the family (at
least occasionally), she may be agreeable.
>To Don Wentz: if I can get an A-10 up to Portland someday, I'll show you
>mine if you show me yours!
Great, think the National Guard will let me park on their ramp at PDX?
I am always up to meeting someone visiting the area and give a ride, if
schedules work out. I think 4 of the folks at the last Van's bldrs
class got rides in N790DW....
Don 'The Duck' Wentz, N790DW, 180HP RV-6, #20369
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Standley <Gary_Standley(at)ccm.ssd.intel.com> |
Text item:
Did Van also tell you he probably didn't have much to do with the
building of the RV8 anyway. I know Art Chard isn't lazy.
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Wing skins
Date: 8/7/95 11:20 AM
>
> On Fri, 4 Aug 1995, Jim McDonald wrote:
>
> > I read about single-piece top skins the in Justice instructions and might
> > just do that given my situation. He said Van's won't ship them
> > single-piece top skins. Where can I get them? (i.e., will anyone ship
> > them?)
>
> While I understand that Van's will not ship one-piece skins, I
> investigated obtaining them locally. The local distributor in
> the Phoeniz, AZ area is Capitol Metals. I would have to order a
> 4 x 12 sheet and have it sheared to size. A 4 x 12 sheet of .032
> was going to be about $150. Capitol could shear it to size for me,
> at an additional $20 charge.
>
> Actually, shipping a sheet of aluminum is no big deal, you
> just roll it up.
>
So I was hanging out at Twin Oaks airport Saturday, and who shows up
but Van in the new RV-8. I was looking it over and noticed that it
had a 2-piece top wing skin.
I asked him why he of all people couldn't have used a single piece
of .032 for it. After all, he doesn't have to worry about shipping,
right? 8-)
Van's answer was:
"The single skin is heavier; you don't get performance by
being lazy."
Never a man to mince words.
I also noticed that the '8 had a single instrument that provided
airspeed, altitude, rate-of-climb and encoding for the transponder.
Nice and neat.
| Date: | Aug 07, 1995 |
| From: | Don Wentz <Don_Wentz(at)ccm2.hf.intel.com> |
I have the single top skin and really like it. BUT, if it would have cost
more time and money than a 10 minute drive to Van's to get it, it wouldn't
have been worth it.
ESPECIALLY since now the 2-piece come pre-drilled.
Don 'The Duck' Wentz, N790DW, 180HP RV-6, #20369
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jmpcrftr(at)teleport.com (Michael McGee) |
>
>> Tony Bingelis in his books mentions something called "Ospho" for
>> cleaning 4130 steel parts.
>>
>
>
> I used this stuff one about ten years ago. It is a Phosphoric acid
>solution that painters apply to rusted metal prior to painting. Strangely
>enough, it is also an ingredient in a certain brand of root beer 8^).
>
>
> Mike Graves
>
We used Ospho when I was working one summer overhauling commercial fishing
boats. After scraping the rusted metal on the boat you hit it with a coat
of Ospho and it would turn the remaining rust black (phosphoric acid
reacting with the iron oxide). This changes the rust to a stable compound
(chemists?) that the marine paint would stay stuck to. After it dried (the
Ospho) we painted and were done.
Mike McGee
Mike McGee & Jackie Stiles jmpcrftr(at)teleport.com
RV-6 ..sn 23530.. (in the "plans" still) .. shop almost ready ...
SHOP: ++++++---- (It's full of junk from movin' in ..mnph..)
TAIL: ----------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Wentz <Don_Wentz(at)ccm2.hf.intel.com> |
| Subject: | Dropping off the list for awhile... |
Due to my job getting out of hand again, I am going to ask Matt to remove me
from the list for awhile. I spend too much time reading this stuff, and enjoy
it too much to have the discipline not to.
I sent this to the whole list since I often get questions about landing lights
and stuff.
Feel free to contact me directly if you are going to be in the area or have
something for me personally, just remember not to send Duckworks questions to
the whole list. And if you feel compelled to respond to this, please respond
ONLY to the SENDER, not to the whole list :-).
In the words of the Terminator - "I'll be back!".
Don 'The Duck' Wentz, N790DW, 180HP RV-6, #20369
don_wentz(at)ccm.hf.intel.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "MIKE PILLA" <mpilla(at)ccsmtplink.espinc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: List Update/Hurricane Erin Damage |
Russell, glad your project survived.
I don't want to sound ghoulish, but, for those builders looking for a
good used engine, there are probably some good finds available as a
result of Erin. I got my O-320-E2D after Andrew hit Florida a while
ago. I had been advised by an experienced builder to pounce after a
natural disaster since the damage is almost totally to an airframe and
the engine is usually unaffected...
Be sensitive, though, guys. It is an emotional time. I purchased
mine from an owner, but you can often get them through the insurance
companies. Sometimes, if the panel is what you want, you can get the
whole bird. I live in NJ so that was not really an option, for me.
TAP, btw, will have ads in a couple of weeks, or so, too.
Mike Pilla
pilla(at)espinc.com
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: List Update/Hurricane Erin Damage
Date: 8/7/95 10:53 PM
--- snip ---
The only real damage was to the planes in the open hanger. The entire
structure was blown away and the supporting beams hit any plane that was
near them.
--- snip ---
Why were all the planes here, you ask? No one expected the storm to hit
here. At midnight Wednesday, the storm was heading for New Orleans. An
hour later, it turned North. We woke up to a surprise.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jeayers(at)CCGATE.HAC.COM |
| Subject: | Re: Right side brakes?? |
>Ross Mickey wrote;
>Now that I'm writing, what about right side brakes?? I don't see the
>point. ( I bet you -4 and -3 builders don't either!!!!!)
As an RV-3 flyer, I see the need for right side brakes and left side brakes, one
of each, that is.
BTW, I mounted the brake reservoir directly to the brake cylinder. That's
buried right against the firewall, and very difficult to get access to verify
the fluid level. I installed the small brass fittings on the top of the
reservoir, and ran 1/16" dia. plastic oil pressure tube teed together to an
overboard vent. I back-fill the brakes at the wheel. When the overboard vent
dumps brake fluid on a strategically placed rag on the hangar floor, the
reservoir for that brake is full. (I realize that the RV-4 and RV-6 brake
reservoirs are set up different.)
Jim Ayers
LOM RV-3 (323.7hrs Lyc, and 13.3hrs LOM)
Engine running cold, and doesn't like it.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank K Justice <Frank_K_Justice(at)ccm.ssd.intel.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Alumiprep and steel cleaning |
Text item:
>From RUSS_NICHOLS_at_SAC__DATA__PROCESSING Mon Aug 7 13:23:55 0700
1995 remote from fire.ca.gov
Date: Mon, 7 Aug 1995 13:23:55 -0700
From: RUSS_NICHOLS_at_SAC__DATA__PROCESSING(at)fire.ca.gov (RUSS NICHOLS)
Subject: primer interaction
Hello all...
The best cleaner for the 4130 steel parts is steel cleaner. Metalprep is
one brand name, I'm sure there are others just like there are other aluminum
cleaner/etchers besides "Alumiprep". Alumiprep has phosphoric acid in it but it
does a lousy job of cleaning the steel parts. Metalprep gets off all the oils
and oxides, leaving an obviously clean dull silver surface. Naval Jelly works
also. Orthophosphoric acid is the common ingredient in steel cleaners.
Metalprep may say on the containiner that it works on aluminum but it
doesn't do a good job. Use Alumiprep for much better results.
Text item: External Message Header
The following mail header is for administrative use
and may be ignored unless there are problems.
***IF THERE ARE PROBLEMS SAVE THESE HEADERS***.
Date: Mon, 7 Aug 95 10:30 PDT
.1)
From: fire.ca.gov!RUSS_NICHOLS_at_SAC__DATA__PROCESSING(at)matronics.com
4.1)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gil(at)rassp.hac.com (Gil Alexander) |
| Subject: | Re: Russ' questions on primers |
*** Russ wrote ****
>
>
> I just called Courtaulds to ask about pricing on their primers and was
> immediately stumped. She asked me "which one"...
>
> In the RV-Archive, I was able to find a reference to MIL-P 23377, type
> 1, class 1. That looks to be the one that I want. Of course, they
> don't have any in stock right now. They do have class 2 in stock.
> She gave me a kit price of $125 for the class 2 (yellow, by the way).
> Since I don't have the MIL Spec, I don't know what class 2 means. Is
Class 2 in this case is described as "High-Solids" with a max. VOC of 340
gr/l (a measure of solvent volatility)
Class 1 is described as "Standard Solvents" - no max VOC measure.
The Class 2 products may be a little harder to spray in a thin
layer, or just may need a higher proportion of thinner to get to the
correct spraying consistency.
I would go for the AKZO (now Dexter Aerospace) FR (Fluid Resistant)
primer from Aircraft Spruce. Was about $85 for a 2 gallon kit. 1:1 mix,
and no thinner required, and real easy to spray. It's easier to use and
easier to get.
> it heavier? Do I take even more years off my life by spraying that
> one? Is it harder to handle? Should hold out for the type 1, class
> 1?
>
>
>
> Locally, I can get Dupont Variprime at the prices below (in $/gal):
> 225 (alumiprep): 23
> 226 (alodine) 23
These two sound about the same in LA. Interestingly enough, 1 qt of
alodine costs about $16, but they will order the gallon size. 4x the
product for 1.5x the price!!
> 615 (primer) 80
> 616 (catalyst) 39
>
> Do these prices sound about right?
>
> thanks,
>
> Russ Nichols
> russ_nichols(at)fire.ca.gov
... keep on priming ... Gil Alexander ... woking on roll-over structure
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Graves <mgraves(at)ptdcs2.intel.com> |
Hi folks!
I have a question for you veteran wing builders.
I understand that it can be difficult (or impossible) to close a wing using AN
rivets everywhere, requiring pop rivets in a couple of tight spots.
a) Is there a way to use only AN rivets?
b) Does the one-piece skin help or hinder this?
Mike Graves
RV-6A in box on closet shelf
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "A. Reichert" <reichera(at)clark.net> |
You can purchase this stuff in a good auto parts and repair store, but I
don't recall brand names. I've used it successfully on auto body work.
- Alan
> We used Ospho when I was working one summer overhauling commercial fishing
> boats. After scraping the rusted metal on the boat you hit it with a coat
> of Ospho and it would turn the remaining rust black (phosphoric acid
> reacting with the iron oxide). This changes the rust to a stable compound
> (chemists?) that the marine paint would stay stuck to. After it dried (the
> Ospho) we painted and were done.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gasobek(at)CCGATE.HAC.COM |
| Subject: | RE: Right Side Brakes??? / Primer! |
I installed right side brakes just for added safety.
1. If I do not feel like my tail-dragger experience is up to stuff, I
can have a safety pilot. (I have 17 hours tailwheel experience.)
2. If the starter dies away from home, the copilot can hold the brakes
while I hand prop the plane.
3. I can fly from the right seat so that I have right hand on the
stick and left on the throttle Just like it is supposed to be! <:^)
4. The most important reason for right side brakes in an RV-6 is so
that I can check my friend Brian out in the left seat. He can then get
experience in the seat he will be flying from.
IMHO, if there is not a valid reason for dual brakes, do not put them
in!
It all boils down to what mission YOUR airplane is going to be used
for. Van set design goals and compromised (in very few areas) to come
up with the RV series of aircraft. Every change from the plans that
is made changes the original design goals. Van's basic design must be
what you want or you would not have picked the RV in the first place.
Attn.: Russ
RE: Primer
I have applied Veriprime over zinc oxide with good results. Only on
one occasion did I have a problem. I did not let the zinc oxide dry
long enough. (less than 30 minutes) The Veriprime dried to a crinkle
finish. As for prep of Veriprime, I recommend skipping the acid wash
and alodine on the interior surfaces. Veriprime is a metal etching
primer with acid in it. Just wipe with acetone and prime. I have one
friend who has been flying his RV-4 for 4 years and 450 hours TT who
did this on his exterior with no paint problems to date. (I would
recommend doing the full treatment on the exterior.) On my next
aircraft, I will NOT prime the interior Alclad surfaces. I have seen
too many production aircraft with NO interior primer that are in
excellent shape 30 and 40 years after they were built. If an aircraft
is hangared and annual inspections are done as required, corrosion
will be kept in check. ACF-50 type treatments are available if
needed. They are less expensive than primer and lighter. At least a
1% weight increase occurs by adding primer. This is 10 pounds of
extra weight that is not needed! Priming alclad parts IMHO is an
added expense and waste of time. I would save the cost, time and
weight for more important things.
Gary
RV-6 20480 N-157GS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gil(at)rassp.hac.com (Gil Alexander) |
| Subject: | Ospho - where to buy? |
Guys, thanks for the comments...
... is it a standard Hardware Store item?? I've never seen it in
our local h/w store, and I know their stock better than some of the clerks
:^)
Should I try marine stores???
Has anyone bought Ospho recently?? if so, where???
... thanks for the help .... Gil Alexander
>>
>>> Tony Bingelis in his books mentions something called "Ospho" for
>>> cleaning 4130 steel parts.
>>>
>>
>>
>> I used this stuff one about ten years ago. It is a Phosphoric acid
>>solution that painters apply to rusted metal prior to painting. Strangely
>>enough, it is also an ingredient in a certain brand of root beer 8^).
>>
>>
>> Mike Graves
>>
>
>
>We used Ospho when I was working one summer overhauling commercial fishing
>boats. After scraping the rusted metal on the boat you hit it with a coat
>of Ospho and it would turn the remaining rust black (phosphoric acid
>reacting with the iron oxide). This changes the rust to a stable compound
>(chemists?) that the marine paint would stay stuck to. After it dried (the
>Ospho) we painted and were done.
>
>
>Mike McGee
>
>Mike McGee & Jackie Stiles jmpcrftr(at)teleport.com
>RV-6 ..sn 23530.. (in the "plans" still) .. shop almost ready ...
>SHOP: ++++++---- (It's full of junk from movin' in ..mnph..)
>TAIL: ----------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Earl W Brabandt <Earl_W_Brabandt(at)ccm.jf.intel.com> |
| Subject: | 2x vs. 3x rivet guns |
Text item:
2x/3x seems to be a matter of personal preference. I prefer
the 2x as it's smaller size makes it easier to control with
one hand. I haven't found it to be lacking in hitting power
up to the larger 1/8" rivets on the RV. I have a 3x gun too
but I never use it.
I have a "pistol" 2x and a "straight" 3x. I mostly use the 2x but
wouldn't be without the 3x because I believe it's more controllable
on 1/8" rivets. (It hits harder and slower and seems better
matched to the mass/size of the rivet). Additionally having
both a pistol and a straight sometimes helps in tight or unusual
places. I bought both CP guns surplus for about $100 each as I
recall.
Calin (formerly Earl -- name change hearing on Thur.)
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and may be ignored unless there are problems.
***IF THERE ARE PROBLEMS SAVE THESE HEADERS***.
Subject: Re: New Guy on the Block
From: edt.com!randall(at)matronics.com (Randall Henderson)
Date: Fri, 4 Aug 1995 17:13:17 -0700
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gasobek(at)CCGATE.HAC.COM |
>>...veteran wing builders.....
>> a) Is there a way to use only AN rivets?
>> b) Does the one-piece skin help or hinder this?
answers:
a) Yes. Do not rivet inboard "wing walk ribs" to spars until ready
to rivet skin to that rib. Do it the same way that AN rivets were
used on the nose rib in the horizontal stab.
b) Same process.
Why use one piece skin?
1) The aircraft is strong enough with out it.
2) it cost more.
3) it weighs more.
Does someone think that 1 piece skins look several hundred dollars
better?
Gary A. Sobek 20480 N-157GS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank K Justice <Frank_K_Justice(at)ccm.ssd.intel.com> |
>I understand that it can be difficult (or impossible) to close a wing using AN
>rivets everywhere, requiring pop rivets in a couple of tight spots.
>
> a) Is there a way to use only AN rivets?
Yes, there is an easy way described in my instructions, and a hard way but still
possible.
> b) Does the one-piece skin help or hinder this?
Doesn't make any difference. Most people nowadays rivet on the topskin first.
FKJ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dahearn(at)attmail.com (Dan Ahearn) |
| Subject: | Change of address |
Matt,
Please change my address from Djahearn(at)aol.com to dahearn(at)attmail.com
Thanks in advance
Dan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Earl W Brabandt <Earl_W_Brabandt(at)ccm.jf.intel.com> |
| Subject: | Re[2]: Wing skins. |
Text item:
>>...veteran wing builders.....
>> a) Is there a way to use only AN rivets?
>> b) Does the one-piece skin help or hinder this?
> answers:
> a) Yes. Do not rivet inboard "wing walk ribs" to spars until ready
> to rivet skin to that rib. Do it the same way that AN rivets were
> used on the nose rib in the horizontal stab.
> b) Same process.
> Why use one piece skin?
I closed my wings (bottom skin) without using any pop rivets. I did all
riveting solo and had already riveted the wing walk ribs to the spars
(unfortunately). If you close by riveting the top skin last, a one-piece top
skin would be a bit of a hindrance due to the need to reach under a longer
length skin for some rivets. If the top skin is riveted first, it doesn't
matter.
The one-piece top skins are only slightly heavier according to previous RV list
discussions (what? about 2 lbs total / airplane as I recall?) I belive the
one-piece skins make it easier to check the spar for straightness in the jig
because the one piece shear line is very straight. However, there's no way that
I'd do it again now that the pre-punched skins are available and I'm not sure
I'd do it again even if they were not available.
Calin N66VR in progress
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Subject: RE: Wing skins.
Date: Tue, 08 Aug 95 13:09:50 PST
From: CCGATE.HAC.COM!gasobek(at)matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: Re[2]: Wing skins. |
I used the one piece top skins. Nice to have, but I wouldn't go to the
trouble if I wasn't local and can go pick them up myself.
The biggest advantage I feel is that the thicker skin outboard will
be smoother (less "rippling" over the skeleton) and will be less
likely to show hangar rash.
I don't think the seam is a big deal cosmetically, nor is it much more
work to build. But that single piece across there does look pretty
darned nice.
But Cal is right -- no way I'd do it now that the two-piece prepunched
are available. And before someone asks -- NO, I'm sure they WON'T ever
provide a single piece topskin pre-punched. Van never did like the
single piece top skin, he only grudgingly provides it, since people ask
for it. The reason they don't ship them is not that they can't, it's
that they WON'T.
Randall Henderson
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jmpcrftr(at)teleport.com (Michael McGee) |
Don Karl asked regarding the Ospho treatments:
>Mike,
>
>Did it actually work? Were you able to see the results over a longer
>period than one summer?
>
---snip---
No I didn't get a chance to see if it really lasted through a season or not.
I was/am like you in that I was taught that you have to get ALL of the rust
off of the steel before you can expect the paint to stick. OTOH you can't
REALLY get all of the rust off before you paint unless you are working in an
atmosphere with no oxygen. It's just that the paint can bridge the
microscopic rust spots that develope, seal it from further oxidation (also
what the Ospho does), and stay bonded to the metal around them. So what it
boils down to is that when you get something ready to paint -- paint it.
Else you will need to get it ready to paint again.
(BTW - in the above "paint" means prime/paint :))
(..hope that didn't get too long winded..)
Mike McGee & Jackie Stiles jmpcrftr(at)teleport.com
RV-6 ..sn 23530.. (in the "plans" still) .. shop almost ready ...
SHOP: ++++++---- (It's full of junk from movin' in ..mnph..)
TAIL: ----------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dahearn(at)attmail.com (Dan Ahearn) |
First, sorry to those who had the pleasure of reading my post for the
address change, I'll figure this out someday....
Some issues I'm considering as I prepare to order my -6 kit.
I'm curious about freight cost from Vans to Central NJ. I'm betting I
can save some money and time by ordering the wing and tail kits at the
same time.
Based on what I've seen on the list most folks seem to take several
months to get to the wings and with the delay time on kits, this might
work out well.
What about corrosion, if I have parts sitting around for 6 months or
more should they be primed before storage?
In fact, I've watched the kit price rise slowly over the years (about
$1,000 if I'm not mistaken). Would there be any major disadvantage to
ordering the whole shabang assuming I have the space and a loading
dock for that big beautiful box?
Dan
RV-6 23101
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dahearn(at)attmail.com (Dan Ahearn) |
| Subject: | (Chatter) List commands |
I'm the type who doesn't ask directions but in the interest in doing
this right...
Could someone post the appropriate address to reach the list admin as
well as some of the basic commands to retrieve archives?
I promise I'll save it this time!
Come now, somebody else was wondering
Dan
RV-6 23101
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Djahearn(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | list question (chatter) |
I'm the type who doesn't ask directions but in the interest in doing this
right...
Could someone post the appropriate address to reach the list admin as well as
some of the basic commands to retrieve archives?
I promise I'll save it this time!
Come now, somebody else was wondering
Dan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dierks(at)austin.ibm.com |
| Subject: | Shipping costs (fwd) |
I don't think you will save anything on shipping all the kits
at the same time.
You see, the kits are boxed up in special size boxes designed to
exactly cram all the pieces into the minimum space.
You will get 4 different sized boxes no matter if you order them
seperate or all together.
Also, even if you order them at the same time. They will be
manufactured on differing schedules and will ship at different
times. (at least mine did).
Why not just call Van's and ask them. They are the experts.
Also, there is some advantage to waiting till you need the kit.
You will be ensured of the latest mods. For example, the finish
kits went through a number of changes in cowl's, etc. If you
bought it early, you are stuck with it as Van's will normally
not take back obsolete items.
You also have to store all the suff some where.
The one advantage of getting it all at once is if for some
reason they went out of business, you have it all and are not
'hung out to dry'. This is not likely with Van's but many a
builder has been burned by other companies like this.
With law suits what they are, one suit could shutdown someone.
The kit prices are driven a lot by the cost of Aluminum, which
has been going up.
Herman.
> From: attmail.com!dahearn(at)matronics.com (Dan Ahearn)
> Subject: Shipping costs
>
> First, sorry to those who had the pleasure of reading my post for the
> address change, I'll figure this out someday....
>
> Some issues I'm considering as I prepare to order my -6 kit.
>
> I'm curious about freight cost from Vans to Central NJ. I'm betting I
> can save some money and time by ordering the wing and tail kits at the
> same time.
>
> Based on what I've seen on the list most folks seem to take several
> months to get to the wings and with the delay time on kits, this might
> work out well.
>
> What about corrosion, if I have parts sitting around for 6 months or
> more should they be primed before storage?
>
> In fact, I've watched the kit price rise slowly over the years (about
> $1,000 if I'm not mistaken). Would there be any major disadvantage to
> ordering the whole shabang assuming I have the space and a loading
> dock for that big beautiful box?
>
> Dan
> RV-6 23101
--------------------------------------------------------
*NOTICE for internet mail*: Any ideas or thoughts expressed here are my
own and are independent of my employer.
Herman Dierks, Dept. E54S, AWSD Austin, Texas
AIX Network Performance Measurement/Analysis
phone: TL 678-2831 outside: (512) 838-2831
ZIP: 9632 fax: 512-838-1801
mail: dierks(at)austin.ibm.com VM: DIERKS at AUSVM6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6junkie(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Shipping costs |
Shipping cost to central NJ as follows (via Roadway)
Tail Kit $65
Wing Kit (two boxes) $158
Fuselage $101
Finish Kit (two boxes) $306
Total $630
I picked up each kit at the Phillipsburg distribution station insted of
having the kits delivered to my home...saved a lot of money. You will need a
pick-up or van to do this (the tail kit fit in my car). When you see how
well the boxes are built and packed you will think that the crating charges
are a bargin!
Doesn't matter if you order all at once or in kits...same number of
boxes...same shipping and crating costs.
If you do order all of the kits at once and store them you will NOT need to
prime parts because they are alclad. Don't scratch 'em and they'll be OK.
Good Luck
Gary Corde
RV-6 N211GC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gregg L. Sloan" <gsloan(at)CapAccess.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Shipping costs |
On Tue, 8 Aug 1995, Dan Ahearn wrote:
> I'm curious about freight cost from Vans to Central NJ. I'm betting I
> can save some money and time by ordering the wing and tail kits at the
> same time.
>
Here's my shipping cost to Washington, D.C. area. I picked up the wing
and fuselage crates at the local Roadway terminal; saved $35 surcharge
on each for residential delivery.
Tail Kit - Oct 92, 2 boxes, Shipped UPS $47
Wing kit - Aug 93, 2 crates, $155
Fuselage - May 94, 1 crate, $151
These charges do not include the crating charge.
Gregg Sloan_____gsloan(at)capaccess.org_____Herndon, Virginia__USA
RV-6A #22425
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | klgray(at)bihs.net (Ken Gray) |
| Subject: | Re: Platenuts on inboard wing rib... |
>Those plate-nuts on the bottom of the wing are VERY IMPORTANT! They attach
>the bottom fuselage skin to the wing and they are STRUCTURAL. The spacing is
>2" as they fall between the rivets that attach the root rib and the skin.
> You can't drill them untill you fit the wings to the fuselage.
>
>As for the plate nuts on the top of the wings, they are for the root fairing
>and they are also drilled in assembly.
>
>Gary Corde
>RV-6 N211GC
>
Down in HOOKS Airport in Houston, I found out that they are using blind
rivits on the bottom skin to wing attachment. How many times are you going
to remove the wings? And if you do, you can drill out the rivits real easy.
Just got my N number "N69KG", this was not my first choice. The serial number
ends in 69. One person already mentioned about some interesting NOSE ART,
I did not consider this when picking my numbers.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JerryFlyRV(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Shipping costs |
Dan writes...
>I'm curious about freight cost from Vans to Central NJ. I'm betting I
> can save some money and time by ordering the wing and tail kits at the
> same time.
Hi Dan
Myself I would have loved to have the whole kit setting there just waiting
for me to build it. If you have the space and a place to keep it dry and
don't let any moisture get between the larger wing skins I would order it
all. It would also depend on your building schedule and how soon you want to
get started. It would not be good to just leave it in the crates. The money
you save might buy you a transponder or whatever. I know that when I built my
RV-6 I had to do a lot of waiting for the next kit and that was frustrating.
Have you checked into what it cost to ship the whole kit? You might be money
ahead to order the whole kit and then take a few days and come pick it up
when it is ready, I know other people have done that.
Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS
PS The price of my RV-6 kit was about $7400.00 dollars when I started it in
1987 I think it is over $10,000 now.
________________________________________________________________________________
for rv-list(at)matronics.com
| From: | hovan(at)apple.com (John Hovan) |
| Subject: | Re: Shipping costs (fwd) |
Hi All,
I believe a change was made to the tail kit shipping process since many
people who are flying their RV's remember one box for the tail kit. I just
ordered my kit which was shipped on 8/3 and it is coming in two boxes. A
120 pound box and 80 pound box. I believe Van is taking advatage of UPS's
cheaper rates. However, UPS will only ship packages weighing less than 130
pounds. Thus the two boxes.
Shipping costs from Van's to Austin, TX via UPS were $40.49. My invoice
said that some items may be marked B/O for backorder and will be shipped
when available. (I hope not too many)
Yes, the RV Web page keeper is finally going to stop talking and start building.
Holding an invoice, waiting for parts,
John
http://atlantis.austin.apple.com/people.pages/jhovan/home.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "A. Reichert" <reichera(at)clark.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Shipping costs (Dan Ahearn) |
One drawback that comes to mind. Currently, when you order a kit from
Van's, the kit comes with the latest set of revised plans for the kit.
If you ordered the whole thing at once, you would either have to be
diligent collecting revisions from the RVAitor, or purchase a revised
plans set (I think they are $50 right now, and you can do this once).
- Alan
| Alan Reichert - Wannabe RV-6 Builder |
| Preview plans received! #24179 |
| Study...study...look for tools...study.... |
|---------------------------------------------|
| http://www.clark.net/pub/reichera/home.html |
On Tue, 8 Aug 1995, Dan Ahearn wrote:
> In fact, I've watched the kit price rise slowly over the years (about
> $1,000 if I'm not mistaken). Would there be any major disadvantage to
> ordering the whole shabang assuming I have the space and a loading
> dock for that big beautiful box?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: Shipping costs |
Dan Ahearn said:
> I'm curious about freight cost from Vans to Central NJ. I'm betting I
> can save some money and time by ordering the wing and tail kits at the
> same time.
I doubt it. They have a crate for the wings, and a crate for the
tail. I doubt they'd consolodate them, and even if they could, shipping
costs are pretty much by weight.
> What about corrosion, if I have parts sitting around for 6 months or
> more should they be primed before storage?
You need to unpack everything and get the paper away from the metal.
Might be a good idea to prime the steel parts pretty soon. Other than
that, keep the parts dry and they should be ok.
> In fact, I've watched the kit price rise slowly over the years (about
> $1,000 if I'm not mistaken). Would there be any major disadvantage to
> ordering the whole shabang assuming I have the space and a loading
> dock for that big beautiful box?
See above about unpacking. Therz LOTS of parts there. Plus the rivets
harden with age, makes em harder to buck. Plus you'll miss out on all
the latest improvements, which can be significant. The increase in kit
prices partly reflect the improvements, but I'll bet they still don't
outpace inflation by much. Put your extra $$ in a CD and you'll
probably come out ahead.
Randall Henderson
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Graves <mgraves(at)ptdcs2.intel.com> |
| Subject: | Re[2]: Wing skins. |
Originally, I asked:
>
> >>...veteran wing builders.....
>
> >> a) Is there a way to use only AN rivets?
>
Earl Brabandt answered>
> > a) Yes. Do not rivet inboard "wing walk ribs" to spars until ready
> > to rivet skin to that rib. Do it the same way that AN rivets were
> > used on the nose rib in the horizontal stab.
Just so I understand, Did you do this so you could reach your arms in deeper?
Mike Graves
RV-6A in box on closet shelf.
Made offer on a house with SHOP :-))
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | James Caufield <caufield(at)sequent.com> |
> If you do order all of the kits at once and store them you will NOT need to
> prime parts because they are alclad. Don't scratch 'em and they'll be OK.
...but you *will* have to unpack them prior to storage. Van
ships them with paper as packing material. Paper will absorb
moisture and rapidly corrode your parts if it is not substituted
with something like plastic.
Takes time, but consider the alternative.
| From: | Cessna337(at)aol.com |
Unsubscribe, please. I'm up to my eyeballs in E-mail. I'd rather read the
notes in a forum where I can select what I want instead of getting deluged
with E-mail. Important notices and construction changes are OK to broadcast
but I'm getting to much "chit chat" and useless garble. I found a Van's group
on the WWW so I can read all the same stuff there since the broadcast stuff
is placed there daily. Thanks anyway, but "STOP THE FLOOD"!!!
H. J. Brasel alias Cessna337(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephen M. Brown" <smbrown(at)cisco.com> |
| Subject: | US Tools dimplimg tools |
Just received my US Tool dimpling/rivet fixture. Problem is the two halves
that meet the rivet are out of lateral alignment by at least 3/8". Haven't
try to adjust this yet, can this be realigned or is it returned?
On a related note, is this an acceptable forum for discussing vendor
quality?? Not looking to bash anyone just want to avoid unpleasant mistakes,
like the one above. BTW I didn't get this from US Tool.
--
Steve Brown
System Engineer
Cisco Systems - Phoenix
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeffrey Hall <jhall(at)fortnet.org> |
Dan, I had my tail and wing kit exposed to the decidedly liquid
atmosphere of Michigan for a few years in my garage workshop, and found
no trouble with corrosion, with the exception of the vert. stab., which
was laying on cardboard for a little while. Something in the cardboard
attacked the alclad. (Bummer!) There are very few steel parts, and these
can be primed when recieved. I say go for it...
Jeff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Graves <mgraves(at)ptdcs2.intel.com> |
John Hovan wrote:
> Yes, the RV Web page keeper is finally going to stop talking and start building.
>
> Holding an invoice, waiting for parts,
> John
>
>
A round of applause please, That's the best news i've heard all day! BTW,
Thanks for keeping up the home page, John. I was blissfully ignorant about this
list until I found the RV page.
Mike Graves
RV-6A in box on closet shelf
Offer made on house.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jeayers(at)CCGATE.HAC.COM |
| Subject: | Re[2]: Wing skins. |
>Gary A. Sobek 20480 N-157GS asked;
>Does someone think that 1 piece skins look several hundred dollars better?
YES!! (sorry for yelling. Gary must have forgotten that I read this list.)
Jim Ayers
LOM RV-3 S/N 50 Maroon Marauder
Single piece center section skin (sorry I couldn't resist)
Wing tanks with .032 single piece leading edge skin (Don't try this at home)
BTW the early plans were good, but they were not as nice as what Van has now.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gil(at)rassp.hac.com (Gil Alexander) |
| Subject: | Re: Shipping costs (chatter) |
>Dan Ahearn said:
>> I'm curious about freight cost from Vans to Central NJ. I'm betting I
**** good stuff cut out ****
>the latest improvements, which can be significant. The increase in kit
>prices partly reflect the improvements, but I'll bet they still don't
>outpace inflation by much. Put your extra $$ in a CD and you'll
>probably come out ahead.
True for Vans kits, but not for Lycoming engines :^(
I wish I had bought a new, pickled Lycoming from Van when I first
started. It's appreciation would have beaten most of my investments!
... Gil Alexander .. holding on to a 1800TT O-320-E2G
... but it's cost and rebuild cost
will probably exceed the 1989
new Lycoming cost :^(
>
>Randall Henderson
>RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeffrey Hall <jhall(at)fortnet.org> |
| Subject: | Re: US Tools dimplimg tools |
Stephen, I have replaced most of the tools that I bought from US Tool,
quality left much to be desired. Avery tools dimpling/rivet tool has been
flawless. Also, again on the "shipping Costs" subject, my wing skins were
left in the crate with the paper for quite some time, okay, years, and
have had no corrosion. This was in Michigan, and it is HUMID there, (big
reason that I left, but that is another story...)
Jeff
RV4 2179 (hey, I'm working on it again, okay!!??)
On Wed, 9 Aug 1995, Stephen M. Brown wrote:
> Just received my US Tool dimpling/rivet fixture. Problem is the two halves
> that meet the rivet are out of lateral alignment by at least 3/8". Haven't
> try to adjust this yet, can this be realigned or is it returned?
>
> On a related note, is this an acceptable forum for discussing vendor
> quality?? Not looking to bash anyone just want to avoid unpleasant mistakes,
> like the one above. BTW I didn't get this from US Tool.
> --
> Steve Brown
> System Engineer
> Cisco Systems - Phoenix
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank K Justice <Frank_K_Justice(at)ccm.ssd.intel.com> |
| Subject: | Ordering more than one kit at a time |
Let me repeat the prime directive:
Order the kits individually in order for them to arrive when you are
ready.
You can call Van's anytime and get lead times so you will know how far
ahead to order.
Reasons: (Summary of traffic)
1.Van's constantly makes improvements and fixes. I would be kicking
myself all the way across the parking lot now if I had ordered all my
kits at once. I figure they have eliminated about 250 hours of work in
the past three years.
2.The plans and drawings will be the latest.
3. The rivets will not have hardened up (that is a real pain and can
cause many hours of extra work)
4. You won't lose any money (Van's prices don't seem to go up any faster
than inflation plus improvements)
5. You need to do the inventory within 30 days.
6. Parts can rust and corrode unless you handle them properly.
7. The stuff takes up a lot of storage space
8. You may have to give up the project and you won't be able to sell old
kits for nearly what you paid for them.
FKJ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Chandler <mauser(at)Claris.COM> |
| Subject: | Re: shipping costs |
> Dan, I had my tail and wing kit exposed to the decidedly liquid
> atmosphere of Michigan for a few years in my garage workshop, and found
> no trouble with corrosion, with the exception of the vert. stab.,
> which was laying on cardboard for a little while. Something in
> the cardboard attacked the alclad. (Bummer!) There are very few
> steel parts, and these can be primed when recieved. I say go for it...
> Jeff
The problem with Cardboard, and most cheap paper for that matter, is that it
is not acid-free. It's why your old comic books and newspaper clippings turn
yellow.
That explains what attacked your Alclad. The moisture allowed the acids in
the cardboard to become free.
--
"Wait a minute, you expect us innocent children to climb up dangerous
scaffolding and paint naked people all over a church? We'll do it!!"
-- Yakko Warner, Animaniacs
"Yeah, I've got ADD, you wanna make something of.... oooh, cool. Look!"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle (Matt G. Dralle 1+ 510-447-9886) |
Test message, please ignore.
Matt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: Re[2]: Wing skins. |
> > > .... Do not rivet inboard "wing walk ribs" to spars until ready
> > > to rivet skin to that rib. Do it the same way that AN rivets were
> > > used on the nose rib in the horizontal stab.
>
>
> Just so I understand, Did you do this so you could reach your arms in deeper?
>
>
> Mike Graves
Yes. The inboard ribs, being close together like they are, are a pain
to rivet with all of them in there, but with this method you can remove
them and insert and rivet them to the skin one rib at a time. It also helps
if the factory heads of the rivets that hold the aft spar flange strips
to the spar are on the inside (forward side) of the spar where they're
adjacent to these ribs. This makes it easier to slide the ribs over
them when removing and inserting them.
Check out Frank Justice's instructions for more detail on this.
Randall Henderson
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle (Matt G. Dralle 1+ 510-447-9886) |
| Subject: | Test Message, Again... |
I'm optimizing the RV-LIST mailer. Already, I've gotten the message processing
to 45 seconds from about 15 minutes... Wow!
Sorry for the bother...
Matt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle (Matt G. Dralle 1+ 510-447-9886) |
| Subject: | One Last Test... Sorry. |
I promise... This is the last test. You'll thank me later!
Matt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JamesCone(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: micro monitor engine instrument system |
The micro monitor is everything that the ads say it is. It took me 19 1/2
hours to build and support was great when I had any questions. It worked
like a charm, no problems ever. Get the fuel flow sensor option. When it
says you have burned 6.2 gallons of fuel out of a full tank, you cannot get
6.3 gallons in when you fill up again. I started totally ignoring my fuel
guages after I gained confidence in it. I knew how much the tanks held when
full and could tell exactly to the tenth of a gallon how much fuel I had left
and exactly how much endurance remained. This is a great system. BTW, I got
a canon plug from an electronics store and mounted it permanently to the
firewall. The wires from the engine plug into the firewall fixture. This
will make taking the engine off much easier. I never thought too much about
this on my first project, ( a sea hawk) and had to take the engine out three
times. Each time I had to undo all of the wires. Live and learn. The
system weighs practically nothing and takes up very little panel space.
Jim Cone
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TommyLewis(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Comments on Garmin GPS 90 |
Reply to Don's questions about Garmin 90:
>Tom, tell me about the Garmin 90. How hard do you think it would be to
>mount in an RV-6? Is the antenae fixed or can it be moved?
I am very impressed by the Garmin 90 unit. It is small, about size of TV
remote, would mount easily on panel of RV. I looked at this unit at Sun &
Fun, and was concerned about the size of the LCD display. After returning
home and looking closer at a unit that a friend bought, I was convinced it
was useable. After buying it at Oshkosh, and flying home with it, I am even
more convinced it is a very useable product. The moving map was great, I had
thought it was a toy, I found it a very useful navigation tool. The cursor
key works well with the few other control keys, I found it easy to learn.
The antenna is small, connects with BNC connector, so to remote antenna, it
comes with about a 4-5 foot coax cable. It uses 4 AA batteries, but I wired
a connector into my cessna so I can plug into power.
> You were able to make a long flight back to TX on the 90 with no problems?
>Loss of signals?
No problem picking up GPS, no loss of signal at all. We make a short side
trip to stop at Amana, Iowa, for lunch. The 2800 foot grass strip was in
the database, had a great lunch of family style german food. The GPS worked
well, however, our 604 loran had trouble switching chains so it did not work.
Still working on RV6A, have first flap ready to rivet together, hopefully
this weekend.
TommyLewis(at)AOL.COM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David A. Barnhart" <barnhart(at)crl.com> |
| Subject: | Re: US Tools dimplimg tools |
On Wed, 9 Aug 1995, Stephen M. Brown wrote:
> On a related note, is this an acceptable forum for discussing vendor
> quality?? Not looking to bash anyone just want to avoid unpleasant mistakes,
> like the one above. BTW I didn't get this from US Tool.
I think this is a perfect forum for discussing vendor quality.
ANd to put in my $.02 worth: I've never been disapointed in
anything I've bought from Avery.
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
rv-6 sn 23744
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Ruble <cruble(at)cisco.com> |
| Subject: | Re: US Tools dimplimg tools |
>
> I think this is a perfect forum for discussing vendor quality.
> ANd to put in my $.02 worth: I've never been disapointed in
> anything I've bought from Avery.
>
> Best Regards,
> Dave Barnhart
> rv-6 sn 23744
>
>
Same here, and they are nice people to deal with. That may not mean
very much to some people but I place it high on the list. They run a family
biz and are RVers too. What more can you ask for.
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Standley <Gary_Standley(at)ccm.ssd.intel.com> |
| Subject: | Re[2]: US Tools dimplimg tools |
Text item:
Back in the OLDEN days when I was building an RV4 I got many of my
tools from US. They were marginal at best. Avery was just getting
started supplying tools and a small selection. Since I've begun working
on the RV3 prototype re-build I have accumulated (bought/borrowed) tools
that come from Avery. They are far superior of anything I have from US.
I recommend Avery very strongly. They are still small enough to care.
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re: US Tools dimplimg tools
Date: 8/10/95 8:25 AM
On Wed, 9 Aug 1995, Stephen M. Brown wrote:
> On a related note, is this an acceptable forum for discussing vendor
> quality?? Not looking to bash anyone just want to avoid unpleasant mistakes,
> like the one above. BTW I didn't get this from US Tool.
I think this is a perfect forum for discussing vendor quality.
ANd to put in my $.02 worth: I've never been disapointed in
anything I've bought from Avery.
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
rv-6 sn 23744
Text item: External Message Header
The following mail header is for administrative use
and may be ignored unless there are problems.
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Subject: Re: US Tools dimplimg tools
From: "David A. Barnhart" <crl.com!barnhart(at)matronics.com>
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 1995 08:25:27 -0700 (PDT)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeremy <jbenedic(at)uofport.edu> |
| Subject: | Van's on WWW - Aug. 10 Update |
The development for the home page is pretty much on schedule for a
previously anticipated release date of August 15. However, while the
development is on schedule, a complication has come forth. The network
that we had planned to put the home page on has suddenly and unexpectedly
reversed their red-tape policily and denied all WWW access. Because
of this, the release date will be delayed until further notice (ie. a
temporary site is found). Suggestions are still welcome, and development
is still underway.
I wish to thank those who have given suggestions and encouragement to the
development process. I am currently about 700 e-mails behind, so I have
not had a chance to respond to everyone personally yet. BTW, a good
portion of the e-mails are from the rv-list, but I'm not complaining
about the volume at all (nobody is forcing anyone to read any e-mail).
Also for those who suggested viewing John Hovan's page, YES, I am aware
of his presence. All attempts are being made to create a site that
complements what he has already.
Jeremy
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | alternators the easy way |
I have just fitted an alt. to my modified -4, and I can tell you that a
Chevy Sprint/ Geo Metro will virtually BOLT ON to stock lyc. brackets. I used
a Generator mount and arm (these should be cheap to find) and had to grind a
small amount from the rear of the front boss of the alt. A spacer is also
necessary at the rear mount boss of the alt. I don't have the p/n of the
mount bracket, but the arm p/n is 75380. This alt. is 35A, internal regulated
single wire hookup with a dummy light wire also. The 540 gen. mount works the
same way, with the same arm. I told you it was modified.
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Graves <mgraves(at)ptdcs2.intel.com> |
| Subject: | alternators the easy way |
Mark wrote:
>
> I have just fitted an alt. to my modified -4, and I can tell you that a
> Chevy Sprint/ Geo Metro will virtually BOLT ON to stock lyc. brackets. I used
> a Generator mount and arm (these should be cheap to find) and had to grind a
> small amount from the rear of the front boss of the alt. A spacer is also
> necessary at the rear mount boss of the alt. I don't have the p/n of the
> mount bracket, but the arm p/n is 75380. This alt. is 35A, internal regulated
> single wire hookup with a dummy light wire also. The 540 gen. mount works the
> same way, with the same arm. I told you it was modified.
I don't know much about airplanes electrical systems. Do we install
12 volt or 24 volt systems today? From the message above I assume it is 12 volt,
but I'm not sure if it is. I hope Mark's Chevy generator is reliable enough to
last a while. I'd be interested to know how it works out.
Mike Graves
RV-6A in box on closet shelf
Offer pending on house (WITH SHOP!)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Greatav8or(at)aol.com |
>Unsubscribe, please. I'm up to my eyeballs in E-mail. I'd rather read the
>notes in a forum where I can select what I want instead of getting deluged
>with E-mail. Important notices and construction changes are OK to broadcast
>but I'm getting to much "chit chat" and useless garble. I found a Van's
group
>on the WWW so I can read all the same stuff there since the broadcast stuff
>is placed there daily. Thanks anyway, but "STOP THE FLOOD"!!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David A. Barnhart" <barnhart(at)crl.com> |
| Subject: | Lesson number 863 |
OK, folks, you can laugh if you want. Now that I've finished building
my first wing tank, I thought I'd pass along my only minor hitch:
I remembered to check the vent line to see that is was clear... AFTER
I entirely finished sealing the tank AAAAUUUUUUGGGGGGHHHHHH!
Somewhere during the process of building the tank, I managed to
get just enough pro-seal into the vent line fitting on the inner
end rib that it was entirely plugged. That rib now has TWO
access plates :-)
So, lesson number 863 is: Check the vent line BEFORE sealing down
the tank baffle!
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
rv-6 sn 23744
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kksys!showpg!jpl (Joe Larson) |
| Subject: | Wing skins -or- I've GOT to meet this guy |
> Van's answer was:
>
> "The single skin is heavier; you don't get performance by
> being lazy."
Why do I think an hour's conversation with Van would be very
informative and interesting?
-J
--
Joe Larson jpl(at)showpg.mn.org 612-595-9690(w)
Showpage Software, Inc.
435 Ford Rd, Suite 315
St. Louis Park, Mn 55426 Future RV-6A pilot.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Cessna337(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Fwd: UNSUBSCRIBE |
---------------------
From: aol.com!Cessna337(at)matronics.com
Date: 95-08-09 17:48:28 EDT
Unsubscribe, please. I'm up to my eyeballs in E-mail. I'd rather read the
notes in a forum where I can select what I want instead of getting deluged
with E-mail. Important notices and construction changes are OK to broadcast
but I'm getting to much "chit chat" and useless garble. I found a Van's group
on the WWW so I can read all the same stuff there since the broadcast stuff
is placed there daily. Thanks anyway, but "STOP THE FLOOD"!!!
H. J. Brasel alias Cessna337(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kksys!showpg!jpl (Joe Larson) |
| Subject: | Houses with shops |
> From: Michael Graves <ptdcs2.intel.com!mgraves(at)matronics.com>
> Made offer on a house with SHOP :-))
Deja vu. My wife and I spent last Sunday stopping in at open houses.
Typical conversations included things like:
"Hmm. Those windows look like they pop out."
"3-car garage. Well, one of the cars will fit."
"I don't think I could get the fuselage out that basement walkout door,
but could build the wings down here."
While she was looking at kitchens and bathrooms and such, I was checking
out garages and walkout basements and difficulty in running 60-amp service
to each of them....
-J
--
Joe Larson jpl(at)showpg.mn.org 612-595-9690(w)
Showpage Software, Inc.
435 Ford Rd, Suite 315
St. Louis Park, Mn 55426 Future RV-6A pilot.
________________________________________________________________________________
for rv-list(at)matronics.com
| From: | hovan(at)apple.com (John Hovan) |
| Subject: | Primer Questions |
Hi All,
After a bit of research and digging through the RV archives, I think I am
going to use either Dexter's AZKO primer or Desoto's Super Koropon primer.
Does anyone know if AZKO is a self etching, zinc chromate primer? Does it
meet all the rigorous military specs? Aircraft Spruce could not provide me
this info. Also, does anyone know if Desoto is still in business. There
number provided a few years back in the RV archives has been disconnected.
thanks,
John
ps. One correction to my previous note on shipping weights. The tail kit
consists of two boxes. One approx. 80 pound box with all the metal parts
and a 24 pound box with wood jigs. (Kit was ordered on 8/2 and arrived on
8/9! All fiberglass parts for the tail section are backordered.)
Here was the past info on Desoto Primers from the RV-Archives...
Super Koropon - PN K515-700
Color - light green
Pot life - 8 hours
clean-up - MEK or similar
surface pre-prep - alodyne (not required, but recommended
"for maximum corrosion proofing")
Cost - 2 gallon kit of primer/activator
1 to 5 kits - $48
6 to 11 kits - $35
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Graves <mgraves(at)ptdcs2.intel.com> |
>
> >
> > Mike Graves
> >
> > RV-6A in box on closet shelf
> > Offer pending on house (WITH SHOP!)
>
> ...but no water, sewage or electricity! 8-)
>
> >
>
>
OK JIM! My secret is out :-)
The house has no power, water, sewer, gas or telephone.
Obviously this requires a unique approach to building an RV. Some ideas I've
been considering are:
a) building the paper RV previously discussed on this channel.
b) installing a giant pitot tube on the roof for compressed air.
c) mounting a large scotchbrite wheel to an exercise bike to act as a
bench grinder.
d) mounting a hand crank a a drill press. (remember the brace and bit?)
e) paying to have the utilities re-connected. (they were severed due to
new construction.
BTW, did Wilbur and Orville have compressed air and power?
Mike Graves
RV-6A in box on closet shelf
Offer pending on house (WITH SHOP!)
OK,OK, no power, sewer, water, gas, phone....
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Graves <mgraves(at)ptdcs2.intel.com> |
| Subject: | Houses with shops |
Joe Larson Wrote:
> Deja vu. My wife and I spent last Sunday stopping in at open houses.
> Typical conversations included things like:
>
> "Hmm. Those windows look like they pop out."
>
> "3-car garage. Well, one of the cars will fit."
>
> "I don't think I could get the fuselage out that basement walkout door,
> but could build the wings down here."
>
> While she was looking at kitchens and bathrooms and such, I was checking
> out garages and walkout basements and difficulty in running 60-amp service
> to each of them....
I envied some of you guys that have garages, so I was interested in the MLS
listing which described a "detached 2 car garage". Expecting the worst, I looked
at it. Ironicly, the shop is in better condition than the house. Price was too
good to pass up. My advice to prospective home buyers: do a lot of research,
These older homes my require much upgrading before real work can begin.
Mike Graves
RV-6A in box on closet shelf
offer made on shop (WITH HOUSE!)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dahearn(at)attmail.com (Dan Ahearn) |
| Subject: | Avionics (chatter) |
Thanks for all regarding the shipping advice, I think Frank summed it
up quite well. Empennage and wings this fall!
Avioncis question: has anyone been able to successfully mount a nav and
com antenna within the fiberglass wing tips (or tail section). I did
see some pics of a tape antenna on a -6 canopy. I would imagine you
could put a GPS antenna right on the glare shield of a tip up canopy.
Dan
RV-6 23101
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gil(at)rassp.hac.com (Gil Alexander) |
| Subject: | Re: Primer Questions |
>Hi All,
>
>After a bit of research and digging through the RV archives, I think I am
>going to use either Dexter's AZKO primer or Desoto's Super Koropon primer.
>
>Does anyone know if AZKO is a self etching, zinc chromate primer? Does it
>meet all the rigorous military specs? Aircraft Spruce could not provide me
>this info.
John ...
This division of AKZO was bought out by Dexter Aerospace, and this
is what the cans should say. If they are still labelled AKZO, then at
leasst 1/2 of the 2 year shelf life is gone!!
It meets a MacDonald-Douglas spec. for "fluid resistant primer
(interior)" and is equivalent to the MIL STD 23377 epoxy primers. These
two primers - Dexter and DeSoto - have the same properties as the MIL STD,
but are easier to mix and apply, and have a much quicker "tack-free" drying
time.
It is strontium chromate based (the modern replacement for zinc
chromate) and is NOT self-etching. A seperate Alumiprep/ScotchBrite
application before priming should be fine, and folow with alodyne if you
want to go the whole way.
I have a full data sheet somewhere at home if you need any more
specific data.
The data for the Dexter primer is almost identical to that for
"Koropon" shown below. I prefer acetone for cleanup, but MEK or lacquer
thinner also work. Unused paint can be stored in the refrigerator for a
day or two if you can get it past your spouse!
... Gil Alexander ... finished roll over cabin frame
> Also, does anyone know if Desoto is still in business. There
>number provided a few years back in the RV archives has been disconnected.
>
>thanks,
>John
>
>ps. One correction to my previous note on shipping weights. The tail kit
>consists of two boxes. One approx. 80 pound box with all the metal parts
>and a 24 pound box with wood jigs. (Kit was ordered on 8/2 and arrived on
>8/9! All fiberglass parts for the tail section are backordered.)
>
>
>Here was the past info on Desoto Primers from the RV-Archives...
> Super Koropon - PN K515-700
> Color - light green
> Pot life - 8 hours
> clean-up - MEK or similar
> surface pre-prep - alodyne (not required, but recommended
> "for maximum corrosion proofing")
> Cost - 2 gallon kit of primer/activator
> 1 to 5 kits - $48
> 6 to 11 kits - $35
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Graves <mgraves(at)ptdcs2.intel.com> |
Note for Randall Henderson and others
At the Portland RV-ators builder group meeting at your house last night, I
noticed that your empennage was primed with a greenish-yellow primer inside and
out. Does the entire surface of the airplane need this treatment? Does the
finish paint stick better with this primer? I'm familiar with painting steel,
but not aluminum.
BTW guys, I think Randall gets the award for longest, narrowest shop! :-)
Mike Graves
RV-6A in box on closet shelf
offer pending on house
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Standley <Gary_Standley(at)ccm.ssd.intel.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing skins -or- I've GOT to meet this guy |
Text item:
You've got to understand where Van is coming from. His first kit plane
was a single place RV3 "sport" airplane. No frills, just fun. Then the
pressure came for two seats, thus the RV4. I remember when the first
guys were going to O-360's and constant speed props and Van didn't
condone it one bit. Basically, what it boils down to is Van designed an
airplane for a purpose and the design did everything he wanted it to.
Why would anyone want take his creation and mess with it.
Of course a lot of neat things have come about with people "messing"
with the airplanes. Especially with the RV6's. Some of them are more
plush than first class in a 747. Hardly the cute little "fighter" of
the RV3 era.
Van is an interesting person to talk to and conceptualize with. His
brother Jerry (an airline pilot) is very interesting too. By the way,
for those of you who may not know Jerry's daughter Denise is an airline
pilot also. She is checked out in the type aircraft as her Dad and they
have flown pilot/co-pilot. So, when they're driving you're really in
good hands.
'Nuff chatter. Some people don't like it and it's taking time from my
day job.
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Wing skins -or- I've GOT to meet this guy
Date: 8/11/95 8:47 AM
> Van's answer was:
>
> "The single skin is heavier; you don't get performance by
> being lazy."
Why do I think an hour's conversation with Van would be very
informative and interesting?
-J
--
Joe Larson jpl(at)showpg.mn.org 612-595-9690(w)
Showpage Software, Inc.
435 Ford Rd, Suite 315
St. Louis Park, Mn 55426 Future RV-6A pilot.
Text item: External Message Header
The following mail header is for administrative use
and may be ignored unless there are problems.
***IF THERE ARE PROBLEMS SAVE THESE HEADERS***.
Date: Fri, 11 Aug 1995 08:47:01 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Wing skins -or- I've GOT to meet this guy
From: kksys!showpg!jpl(at)matronics.com (Joe Larson)
.1)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Standley <Gary_Standley(at)ccm.ssd.intel.com> |
Text item:
I don't know if the Wright's had compressed air but they did have "gas"
from time to time.
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: re:shop
Date: 8/11/95 9:03 AM
>
> >
> > Mike Graves
> >
> > RV-6A in box on closet shelf
> > Offer pending on house (WITH SHOP!)
>
> ...but no water, sewage or electricity! 8-)
>
> >
>
>
OK JIM! My secret is out :-)
The house has no power, water, sewer, gas or telephone.
Obviously this requires a unique approach to building an RV. Some ideas I've
been considering are:
a) building the paper RV previously discussed on this channel.
b) installing a giant pitot tube on the roof for compressed air.
c) mounting a large scotchbrite wheel to an exercise bike to act as a
bench grinder.
d) mounting a hand crank a a drill press. (remember the brace and bit?)
e) paying to have the utilities re-connected. (they were severed due to
new construction.
BTW, did Wilbur and Orville have compressed air and power?
Mike Graves
RV-6A in box on closet shelf
Offer pending on house (WITH SHOP!)
OK,OK, no power, sewer, water, gas, phone....
Text item: External Message Header
The following mail header is for administrative use
and may be ignored unless there are problems.
***IF THERE ARE PROBLEMS SAVE THESE HEADERS***.
Date: Fri, 11 Aug 95 9:03:38 PDT
Subject: re:shop
From: Michael Graves <ptdcs2.intel.com!mgraves(at)matronics.com>
A03353
0
)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RUSS_NICHOLS_at_SAC__DATA__PROCESSING(at)fire.ca.gov |
>From RUSS_NICHOLS_at_SAC__DATA__PROCESSING Fri Aug 11 10:24:22 0700 1995 remote
from fire.ca.gov
From: RUSS_NICHOLS_at_SAC__DATA__PROCESSING(at)fire.ca.gov (RUSS NICHOLS)
Subject: Re: Primer Questions
This is a Mime message, which your current mail reader
may not understand. Parts of the message will appear as
text. To process the rest, you will have to use a Mime
compatible mail reader. Contact your vendor for details.
--IMA.Boundary.808161731
John,
I just finished doing exactly the same thing. I decided to go with
the Akzo. It is an epoxy based, NON-etching primer. It meets
MIL-P-23377, type 1, class 1 specs. Gil Alexander was able to provide
me with A LOT of very good information about primers and the spec.
I looked for Desoto, too. I'm guessing that they were bought out by
Courtauld's. Courtauld's Berkley address happens to be exactly the
same as the address listed for Desoto in the RV archive. Courtauld's
also has a product called Desoclean. Could be just a coincidence...
Aircraft Spruce has Akzo in stock. (They had 2 kits until I ordered
one a couple of days ago...) I paid $88 for the 2 gal. kit. Of
course, there is a "nominal" hazmat fee for shipping.
Courtauld's (part no. 513x390) also meets the spec. It runs $77 for
the 2 gallon kit, but they don't have any in stock. It is not an
etching primer, either.
From the info that I could find, both the Akzo and Courtauld's are
VERY hard and stick VERY well, even though they aren't etching
primers. I'm doing alumiprep and alodine under the primer, so an
etching primer wasn't as much of a concern for me. I think that both
Akzo and Courtauld's have strontium chromate (the approved replacement
for zinc chromate).
The only thing I've used to date is Tempo's Zinc Oxide, so most of
this info is research and "wisdom" from some VERY helpful people on
the RV list.
Go forth and prime...
Russ Nichols
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Primer Questions
Date: 8/11/95 8:47 AM
Does anyone know if AZKO is a self etching, zinc chromate primer? Does it
meet all the rigorous military specs? Also, does anyone know if Desoto is
still in business. There number provided a few years back in the RV
archives has been disconnected.
--IMA.Boundary.808161731--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Earl W Brabandt <Earl_W_Brabandt(at)ccm.jf.intel.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing skins -or- I've GOT to meet this guy -- chatter |
Text item:
Joe speculates:
> Why do I think an hour's conversation with Van would be very
> informative and interesting?
Yes it would be -- except that Van is very humble and reserved, and he
doesn't seem to enjoy talking much. I think it would be unusual to
sustain a conversation with him for an entire hour.
Calin
-J
--
Joe Larson jpl(at)showpg.mn.org 612-595-9690(w)
Showpage Software, Inc.
435 Ford Rd, Suite 315
St. Louis Park, Mn 55426 Future RV-6A pilot.
Text item: External Message Header
The following mail header is for administrative use
and may be ignored unless there are problems.
***IF THERE ARE PROBLEMS SAVE THESE HEADERS***.
Date: Fri, 11 Aug 1995 08:47:01 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Wing skins -or- I've GOT to meet this guy
From: kksys!showpg!jpl(at)matronics.com (Joe Larson)
.1)
4.1)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank K Justice <Frank_K_Justice(at)ccm.ssd.intel.com> |
Text item:
>At the Portland RV-ators builder group meeting at your house last night, I
>noticed that your empennage was primed with a greenish-yellow primer
>inside and out. Does the entire surface of the airplane need this
>treatment? Does the
>finish paint stick better with this primer? I'm familiar with painting steel,
>but not aluminum.
You need to prime the outside for good adhesion of finish coats, but most
primers indicate that the finish coat should be put on soon after the primer for
or else you must roughen the primer. We will sometimes put primer on the outside
of pieces we expect to sit around for a long time as a way of protecting them
from corrosion and scratches.
FKJ
Text item: External Message Header
The following mail header is for administrative use
and may be ignored unless there are problems.
***IF THERE ARE PROBLEMS SAVE THESE HEADERS***.
Date: Fri, 11 Aug 95 10:00:34 PDT
Subject: primer
From: Michael Graves <ptdcs2.intel.com!mgraves(at)matronics.com>
A04428
0
)
4.1)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
I think I got a bit carried away with the paint gun early in my
project. Since doing my empennage I've heard several reasons not to
prime the exterior surfaces until it comes time to finish paint. One
reason is that unless you know for sure what finish paint you're going
to use, your primer may not be compatible. Also I've heard that the
finish paint adheres better to the primer if it hasn't cured for too
long. I'm not too worried about it, but I won't be priming exterior
surfaces any more until I'm ready to paint.
Randall Henderson
RV-6
Shop dimensions: 12' wide by 40' looong (including paint/wing storage room)
> At the Portland RV-ators builder group meeting at your house last night, I
> noticed that your empennage was primed with a greenish-yellow primer inside and
out. Does the entire surface of the airplane need this treatment? Does the
> finish paint stick better with this primer? I'm familiar with painting steel,
> but not aluminum.
>
> BTW guys, I think Randall gets the award for longest, narrowest shop! :-)
>
>
> Mike Graves
>
> RV-6A in box on closet shelf
> offer pending on house
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | steve_kimura(at)om.cv.hp.com |
| Subject: | Solid crank and C/S prop? |
Item Subject: Text_1
I just saw this ad in rec.aviation.marketplace. This may be a dumb
question, but how can you have a C/S prop and a solid crank?
> 1979 Bellanca Super Decathlon. 180 hp Lycoming with constant
> speed propeller. Fully aerobatic with inverted fuel and oil
> systems. 930 total time air frame, 10 hours on the engine since
> factory remanufacture with solid crankshaft, 150 SPOH. No damage
> history. Complete logs available...
Steve Kimura
kimuras(at)peak.org
-6A plans, builder's conference next week!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dierks(at)austin.ibm.com |
| Subject: | Avionics (chatter) |
> Avioncis question: has anyone been able to successfully mount a nav and
> com antenna within the fiberglass wing tips (or tail section). I did
> see some pics of a tape antenna on a -6 canopy. I would imagine you
> could put a GPS antenna right on the glare shield of a tip up canopy.
>
The comm antenna should be mounted vertical for best results.
Therefor, the wingtips are not well suited for the comm.
That is why you see it on the windshield of Van's RV6.
I thing some may tried the wing tips, maybe even Van. I think there
was an article on this in one of the RV newsletters.
Herman
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dierks(at)austin.ibm.com |
| Subject: | Solid crank and C/S prop? (fwd) |
They may be refering to the prop flange on the crank.
Lots of the cranks have lightning holes in the flange.
For aerobatics, there is an AD or SB on this that requires
an inspection each 25 Hrs if a crank with the lightning holes
is used for aerobatics. It also says to replace the crank
with a solid flange crank on the next OH.
I think folks that don't really understand that there are
'solid core' cranks (vs hollow shaft for CS prop) and
then there are solid flange (vs flange with lightning holes).
Therefore, they just throw around the term 'solid crank'.
I think in this case it is 'hollow' but with the later style
solid flange.
FYI, there are also several thicknesses of flanges around.
The later style has a thicker flange as well.
Herman
> From root Fri Aug 11 15:29:59 1995
> From: om.cv.hp.com!steve_kimura(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Solid crank and C/S prop?
>
> I just saw this ad in rec.aviation.marketplace. This may be a dumb
> question, but how can you have a C/S prop and a solid crank?
>
> > 1979 Bellanca Super Decathlon. 180 hp Lycoming with constant
> > speed propeller. Fully aerobatic with inverted fuel and oil
> > systems. 930 total time air frame, 10 hours on the engine since
> > factory remanufacture with solid crankshaft, 150 SPOH. No damage
> > history. Complete logs available...
>
Herman Dierks, Dept. E54S, AWSD Austin, Texas
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | J.Ken_Hitchmough(at)magic.ca (J.Ken Hitchmough) |
| Subject: | Re: Lesson number 863 |
Dave Barnhart wrote...
>So, lesson number 863 is: Check the vent line BEFORE sealing down
>the tank baffle!
So, lesson number 864 must be... wait for it....
Make sure the float is on your fuel sender arm BEFORE you seal in your tank.
Beat that!!
Ken RV-6A
(which now has floats on both senders!!)
--
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Magic Online Services Toronto Inc. (416) 591-6490
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephen M. Brown" <smbrown(at)cisco.com> |
| Subject: | Re: US Tools dimplimg tools |
:-(
No one has yet answered my question... and I don't know if this thing is any
good.
Appreciate the plugs for Avery, I found them *after* ordering this from
Aircraft Spruce; I now feel the same as the other comments, spoke with Judy
once or twice. Also didn't know about this list when ordering the first set
of tools :-( :-(
Would it be best to return this to Aircraft Spruce and purchase from Avery??
that's what I'd really like to do. ~$189 vs $110. Anyone ever try to return
things to Aircraft Spruce??
--
Steve Brown
System Engineer
Cisco Systems - Phoenix
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ammeterj(at)ammeterj.seanet.com (John Ammeter) |
| Subject: | Re: Are Videos Worth It??? Right side brakes?? |
Regards right side brakes:
I had no time in taildraggers and my flight instructor wouldn't fly right
seat unless the brakes were installed. After he felt comfortable with me
and I had trouble getting all the air out of the right side lines I removed
the right side brakes. On my bi-annual he hardly even noticed their absence.
>I purchased George and Becky Orndorff's Empennage and Wing construction
>videos. The Emp. video was quite helpful as I was totally "green". I
>found the wing video to be entertaining but not as useful. Now that I
>am starting the Fuselage, I am wondering if I should spring the $50 for
>this video. Any comments????
>
>Now that I'm writing, what about right side brakes?? I don't see the
>point. ( I bet you -4 and -3 builders don't either!!!!!)
>
>Ross Mickey
>Still F605 (why is this seat belt bracket so ***##!@@ close to the edge
>of the F-605B????)
>
________________________________________________________________________________
rv-list(at)matronics.com
| From: | ammeterj(at)ammeterj.seanet.com (John Ammeter) |
--=====================_808189492==_
A) Yes
B) Not really
I am including an article that Jim Morgan and I wrote about a method to
build a wing without using "Pop Rivets". I have also been working on a
compilation of past articles from the Puget Sound RVators; it will have
about 60 articles that should be of interest both to the builder and to the
flyer (and even to the dreamer). When the "book" is done you will be the
first to know.
John Ammeter
N16JA 200+ hours
>Hi folks!
> I have a question for you veteran wing builders.
>I understand that it can be difficult (or impossible) to close a wing using AN
>rivets everywhere, requiring pop rivets in a couple of tight spots.
>
> a) Is there a way to use only AN rivets?
>
> b) Does the one-piece skin help or hinder this?
>
> Mike Graves
>
>RV-6A in box on closet shelf
>
________________________________________________________________________________
jpl%showpg%kksys.com(at)matronics.com, rv-list(at)matronics.com
| From: | ammeterj(at)ammeterj.seanet.com (John Ammeter) |
| Subject: | Re: Wing skins -or- I've GOT to meet this guy -- chatter |
I've known Van for over 8 years now and, as president of the Puget Sound
RVators, occasionally have reason to talk to him. It IS unusual to sustain
his interest for over 30 minutes. Not his fault, he just doesn't seem to
enjoy mindless babbling. If you have a serious topic he WILL listen to you.
John Ammeter
RV-6 N16JA
>
>Text item:
>
>Joe speculates:
>
>> Why do I think an hour's conversation with Van would be very
>> informative and interesting?
>
>Yes it would be -- except that Van is very humble and reserved, and he
>doesn't seem to enjoy talking much. I think it would be unusual to
>sustain a conversation with him for an entire hour.
>
>Calin
>
>-J
>
>--
>Joe Larson jpl(at)showpg.mn.org 612-595-9690(w)
>Showpage Software, Inc.
>435 Ford Rd, Suite 315
>St. Louis Park, Mn 55426 Future RV-6A pilot.
>
>Text item: External Message Header
>
>The following mail header is for administrative use
>and may be ignored unless there are problems.
>
>***IF THERE ARE PROBLEMS SAVE THESE HEADERS***.
>
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>Mime-Version: 1.0
>X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23]
>Date: Fri, 11 Aug 1995 08:47:01 -0500 (CDT)
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Wing skins -or- I've GOT to meet this guy
>Message-Id: <9508111347.AA01526@showpg.>
>Reply-To: showpg!jpl(at)matronics.com (Joe Larson)
>From: kksys!showpg!jpl(at)matronics.com (Joe Larson)
>Received: by showpg. (5.x/SMI-SVR4)
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ammeterj(at)ammeterj.seanet.com (John Ammeter) |
| Subject: | Re: Avionics (chatter) |
--=====================_808189496==_
Greg Rainwater of the Puget Sound RVators has written a short article on how
he was able to mount his com antenna in the fiberglass wingtip of his RV-4.
I have attached the article.
>Thanks for all regarding the shipping advice, I think Frank summed it
> up quite well. Empennage and wings this fall!
>
>Avioncis question: has anyone been able to successfully mount a nav and
> com antenna within the fiberglass wing tips (or tail section). I did
> see some pics of a tape antenna on a -6 canopy. I would imagine you
> could put a GPS antenna right on the glare shield of a tip up canopy.
>
>Dan
>RV-6 23101
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bruce Oliver <75274.3426(at)compuserve.com> |
I have started an RV 6A and will need a lot of help.
Thanx: Bruce
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JamesCone(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: micro monitor engine instrument system |
The micro monitor that I was talking about is the Rocky Mountain Instruments
one. It is much cheaper than the micro vision one and does everything just
as well. The micro monitor is the only engine instruments that I use. It is
bullet proof and needs no backup. I bought all of the sensors except the
carb temp probe. There is no place to put one in an Ellison Throttle Body
unless you start drilling holes in it, and it is not prone to much carb ice
anyway.
Jim Cone
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JamesCone(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: US Tools dimplimg tools |
Avery has great tools. They also gave so many prizes at Van's dinner at
Oshkosh that it was embarrassing to the other suppliers who gave some too.
Bob Avery told me that it was not his intention to embarrass anyone, but
rather to give something back to the RV builders who mean so much to his
business. Quite a guy. Avoid ATS tools. They are not good quality and the
prices aren't the best either.
Jim Cone
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeffrey Hall <jhall(at)fortnet.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Houses with shops |
Now the scenario becomes obvious...hmmm, house neglected, two car garage
in great shape, yep, divorce forces sale of property of aircraft builder!!!
("but my second wife loves flying!!!")
On Fri, 11 Aug 1995, Michael Graves wrote:
> Joe Larson Wrote:
>
>
> > Deja vu. My wife and I spent last Sunday stopping in at open houses.
> > Typical conversations included things like:
> >
> > "Hmm. Those windows look like they pop out."
> >
> > "3-car garage. Well, one of the cars will fit."
> >
> > "I don't think I could get the fuselage out that basement walkout door,
> > but could build the wings down here."
> >
> > While she was looking at kitchens and bathrooms and such, I was checking
> > out garages and walkout basements and difficulty in running 60-amp service
> > to each of them....
>
>
> I envied some of you guys that have garages, so I was interested in the MLS
> listing which described a "detached 2 car garage". Expecting the worst, I looked
at it. Ironicly, the shop is in better condition than the house. Price was
too
> good to pass up. My advice to prospective home buyers: do a lot of research,
> These older homes my require much upgrading before real work can begin.
>
>
> Mike Graves
>
> RV-6A in box on closet shelf
> offer made on shop (WITH HOUSE!)
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeffrey Hall <jhall(at)fortnet.org> |
| Subject: | Re: US Tools dimplimg tools |
Stephen, if the thing was out of alignment when you bought it, there
shouldn't be any problem returning it, if it was me, I'd get rid of it,
spend the extra bucks on a good one, believe me, by the time you get far
into building, you'll be replacing any cheap tools you buy, thus buying
two tools instead of one. I have yet to meet a builder that hasn't said
"I wish I had just spent the money the first time and bought a good one"
Jeff
RV4 2179
On Fri, 11 Aug 1995, Stephen M. Brown wrote:
>
> :-(
>
> No one has yet answered my question... and I don't know if this thing is any
> good.
>
> Appreciate the plugs for Avery, I found them *after* ordering this from
> Aircraft Spruce; I now feel the same as the other comments, spoke with Judy
> once or twice. Also didn't know about this list when ordering the first set
> of tools :-( :-(
>
> Would it be best to return this to Aircraft Spruce and purchase from Avery??
> that's what I'd really like to do. ~$189 vs $110. Anyone ever try to return
> things to Aircraft Spruce??
>
> --
> Steve Brown
> System Engineer
> Cisco Systems - Phoenix
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David A. Barnhart" <barnhart(at)crl.com> |
On Fri, 11 Aug 1995, Frank K Justice wrote:
> You need to prime the outside for good adhesion of finish coats, but most
> primers indicate that the finish coat should be put on soon after the primer
> for or else you must roughen the primer. We will sometimes put primer on the
> outside of pieces we expect to sit around for a long time as a way of
> protecting them from corrosion and scratches.
Also, some primers (I've noticed thia about Veriprime) readily absorb the
oils in your skin from handling. If you prime the exterior surface, then
handle it a lot, you are going to need to strip the primer off and
re-prime before you paint.
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
rv-6 sn 23744
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David A. Barnhart" <barnhart(at)crl.com> |
| Subject: | I pressure tested the fuel tank |
Since I had posted some information here a couple of weeks ago about
sealing the fuel tank with the help of Scott McDaniels of Aerizona
Aerocrafters, I thought I would just follow up. I completed
pressure-testing the tank last night and it has no leaks.
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
rv-6 sn 23744
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gregg L. Sloan" <gsloan(at)CapAccess.org> |
| Subject: | Re: US Tools dimplimg tools |
On Fri, 11 Aug 1995, Stephen M. Brown wrote:
> Would it be best to return this to Aircraft Spruce and purchase from Avery??
> that's what I'd really like to do. ~$189 vs $110. Anyone ever try to return
> things to Aircraft Spruce??
If you're suspect of the quality try to return it. You will not be
disappointed with the Avery tool. I once exchanged a defective Tatco
squeezer with Aircraft Spruce. No problem, just needed to call and get
return authorization.
For those of you now wondering what was wrong with the Tatco squeezer: the
brass bushing was not press fit properly and came loose.
Gregg Sloan_____gsloan(at)capaccess.org_____Herndon, Virginia__USA
RV-6A #22425
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JerryFlyRV(at)aol.com |
>Mike writes
>Note for Randall Henderson and others
>
>At the Portland RV-ators builder group meeting at your house last night, I
>noticed that your empennage was primed with a greenish-yellow primer inside
>and out. Does the entire surface of the airplane need this treatment? Does
>the
>finish paint stick better with this primer? I'm familiar with painting
steel,
>
>but not aluminum.
Mike
One needs to consider who is going to paint your airplane, I think it is wise
to paint the interior, but before painting the exterior if you are not going
to paint the airplane yourself, you should talk to the painter, alot of
painters have a system worked out and do not like to take on a paint job
where the primer has already been applied, I know my painter didn't like it
because my wings were primed already.
Jerry Springer
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JerryFlyRV(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: alternators the easy way |
<< rv-list(at)matronic.com
> I hope Mark's Chevy generator is reliable enough to
>last a while. I'd be interested to know how it works out.
>
>
> Mike Graves
Mike
I can vouch for the Chevy Sprint alternator, I got mine at a wrecking yard
for $45.00 had it tested for $2.00, it has now been on my plane for 700hrs
without a problem. I have a volt meter and it consistantly puts out 14.2
volts and that is about where the gel cell type batteries like to be charged.
My hanger mate has the same alternator on his RV-6 with about 375 hrs and no
problems. The neat thing about them is they are light and small, very simple
to wire because they have a built in regulator. Some of the Lancair people
are using them also.
Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS
PS you live close enough by I would be glad to show it to you sometime >>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Final "RV-Listers" List |
Well, like it or not, here it is. There are 76 listings that include 23
states and 6 countries. I edited listings where necessary in an attempt to
keep them in the same format. I also removed phone numbers and street
addresses. I hope everyone is satisfied with the results. As they say, you
get what you pay for :-) We are, indeed, and interesting group.
Putting together the list was interesting, but I don't plan to keep it
current. I've got too many things going on now. I'm actually toying with
the idea of selling my project.
John Hovan will also be putting this on his fine RV Web page:
http://atlantis.austin.apple.com/people.pages/jhovan/home.html
Enjoy,
Russell Duffy
************************************************************
************************************************************
ALABAMA:
Frank Marlowe
Trinity, AL
fmarlowe(at)hiwaay.net
RV-6A SN 22782(plans#)
The project has been in limbo for the past year due to overwhelming
business demands and govermental red tape. The tail is 75% complete and I
hope to continue the project soon. I have wing kit (non drilled). Hope to
install a 180 w/cs prop.
Your mail group is very encouraging. I'm glad to be a part of it and
hope I'll be able to contribute someday. Regards, Frank
**************************************************
ARKANSAS:
Richard Ernst
Conway, AR
ernstrm(at)alpha.hendrix.edu
RV-6A SN-23205
Tail is 85% finished (elevators not quite complete). Wing kit should
arrive late July. Planned options: manual elevator and aileron trim,
manual flaps. Will be building my own wing spar.
**************************************************
CALIFORNIA:
Brian K. Cooper
Altadena, CA
cooper(at)robotics.jpl.nasa.gov
RV-6A SN-23141
I'm finishing up the empennage and just ordered my wing kit. I'm planning on
tip-up canopy, electric flaps and elevator and 0-360 with CS prop. I work at
the Jet Propulsion Laboratory (part of NASA). I'm part of the team that is
building the first robotic vehicle (rover) to be sent to Mars, launching Dec of
next year.
**************************************************
Jess Mallian
Bakersfield, CA
RV4FLYER(at)aol.com
RV-4, #3410
**************************************************
Edward Cole
Cupertino, CA
ecole(at)ix.netcom.com
RV- (didn't say)
Test Engineer at Maxim Integrated Products
(Semiconductors)
**************************************************
Remi D. Khu
Long Beach, CA
rkhu(at)earthlink.net
RV-4 SN-3751
Project started on 25 March 1994
Location: Compton Municipal Airport (CPM)
Empennage section assembled, primed. Tips not yet installed.
Currently (7/95) hanging left wing ribs onto Phlogiston spars.
Plan: IFR panel, loran, single comm cluster with handheld backup.
Considering Wenkel auto-converted engine block.
C/S prop - suggestions?
Sliding canopy modification (if practical for rear pax)
Dual-control linkage -
Electric flaps only!
Color: Silver longitudinal trimming on Black/Navy Blue
**************************************************
Gil Alexander
Los Angeles, CA (near Marina del Rey)
gil(at)rassp.hac.com
RV6A s/n 20701
Tail complete, wings 95%, fuselage out of jig and installing cockpit stuff.
Tip-up canopy, electric flaps, elec. elev. trim.
Have a 1800 hr. O-320E2G - needs a new sump for the -6A, will probably
convert it to 160 HP.
47 years old, electronics engineer, glider pilot/owner and an Airframe Mechanic.
**************************************************
Gary A. Sobek
Manhattan Beach, CA
Work: GASobek(at)ccgate.hac.com
Home: 70176.1660(at)Compuserve.com
RV-6 SN-20480 N-157GS
Started April 1989. Tail 100%, wings 99% (built own spar, fuel tanks
were easy, My employer provided OJT for Proseal!), Fuselage on Gear
98%, Manual flaps, manual 2 axis trim, sliding canopy 100%, Engine
O-320 B2B C with Constant Speed 98%, instruments 95%, cowl 95%,
FAB-320 5%, wiring 2%, plumbing 60%, Seats ordered with October
delivery scheduled, First flight planned for December 1995. Planning
on being at Oshkosh 1996 complete with paint. The -6 is based at CABLE
airport in Upland, CA (Southern California.) Cost to build: 2 wives,
1 girl friend, 2 houses, 3 rental units, 1 house of furniture and 1
car. Time to build to date: 1700 hours + engine rebuild time not
included. Attending night classes for A&P license, 80% complete. I
am a Electrical System Engineer designing satellite test equipment
interfaces.
**************************************************
Chris Ruble
Milpitas, CA
cruble(at)cisco.com
RV-6 S/N# 22151
Tail feathers completed, Wings in process
Product Test Egn., Cisco Systems
Currently flying a '65 Cherokee 180 (8085W)
**************************************************
Jim Ayers
Newbury Park, CA
jeayers(at)ccgate.hac.com
RV-3 SN 10050 Flying :-)
RV-4 SN 2708 Building :-(
RV-3 N47RV Completed 1988. First 323.7 hours on Lyc. O-290-G.
9 hours on LOM M332A (4 cyl in-line inverted Czechoslovakian aircraft engine).
Wing tanks. Side-hinged canopy. Sportcraft NAV antenna in right wing tip, and
Sportcraft COM antenna in vertical stabilizer cap (10" tall).
RV-4 Started on tail kit. (Kits are a lot nicer than plans built.)
**************************************************
Russ Nichols
Sacramento, CA
Russ_Nichols(at)fire.ca.gov
RV-6 SN 24010
Empenage in progress. Tool collection growing...
Software engineer/project manager, California Dept. of Forestry
**************************************************
Bruce Patton
San Luis Obispo, CA
BPattonsoa(at)aol.com
RV-6A
Started 11/94, Wings/tail complete, Fues in Jig,
EAA chapter 170, Age 50, Engineer, Glider Pilot
Other Projects: HP-18 glider, completed in '87
**************************************************
COLORADO:
Bob Hall
Colorado Springs, CO
RV6Bldr(at)aol.com
RV-6 s/n 20719
tail - 98%
wings- 75%
fuselage - preparing my order
electric elev. trim, electric flaps, sliding canopy
USAF ret, dabbler in computer programming
**************************************************
Dane Heule
Denver, CO
Compuserve address is 76364.2426
or bq535(at)freenet.hsc.colorado.edu
RV-4 18LR
I have been flying my RV-4 for 6 years here in Denver and I
am active with the local Rockey Mountain RVators.
**************************************************
Jeffrey Hall
Ft. Collins, Co.
jhall(at)fortnet.org
RV4 sn2179
**************************************************
Ed Weber
Ft Collins, CO
ebw(at)fc.hp.com
RV-6A SN-23945
Started empenage in June 95.
**************************************************
Warren Gretz
Littleton, CO (Metro Denver)
gretzw(at)tcplink.nrel.gov
RV-6 s/n 23270 N25WG
Wings about 98% done. One year into project.
**************************************************
FLORIDA:
Nigel Kirlew
Coconut Creek, FL
anto(at)gate.net
RV-6A SN-23221
I purchased a set of plans two years ago and have yet to
begin construction. Current plan is to order empennage
in a month. Wish list: O-360, sliding canopy, electric
flaps to save space in cockpit, VFR panel.
**************************************************
Russell Duffy
Navarre, FL (near Pensacola)
rad(at)gulf.net
RV-6 sn-22407
Empenage complete, currently working on fuel tanks,
building both wings at once. Basic VFR
I'm a field service rep for Picker International. I install and
maintain Medical Imaging systems (mostly MRI and CT scanners).
**************************************************
IDAHO:
John Winter
Boise, ID
WinterByte(at)aol.com
RV-6A
I began the project by tooling up about 1.5 years ago. Construction on
tail started in May. Took 2.5 months of full time + to complete horz stab,
vert stab, and rudder. This is probably longer than average, but I have
never worked with sheet metal before this. Boy, have I learned a lot!
Got some good info on trim from the network. Thanks to all who took time
to comment. I've decided to go with servos.
Planned completion date is the year 2000.
Software Consultant specializing in CASE tools and data base design.
**************************************************
ILLINOIS:
Don Mack
Chuck Mack (brothers)
New Lenox, IL
donmack(at)interacess.com
RV-6A SN-22307
Emp. Complete
Left wing - Needs bottom skin and flaps attached
Using Phlsogen (sp) spar, London tanks, manual trim
Plan to us 360 with CS prop.
**************************************************
Thomas Boatright
Urbana, IL
trboatri(at)ux1.cso.uiuc.edu
RV-4
empenage complete, wings 85% complete.
I work at the University of Illinois mostly installing, maintaining
and programming fire alarm and security systems.
**************************************************
IOWA
Jim Delveau
Ankeny, IA
JDelveau(at)aol.com
RV-6
Started project in October of 1994 (got a very slow start)
Left elevator just about finished and waiting on the wing kit.
Computer Consultant for Goulden Computer Services, Inc. in Des Moines, IA.
Married, no children, two beagles (planning to make special beagle area in
the baggage area.)
**************************************************
KANSAS:
Greg Tyler
Derby, KS
gtyler(at)southwind.net
RV-6 S/N 23685
I am Greg Tyler, from Derby, Kansas - near the "Air Capital of the World"
(Wichita) and have plans to build a RV-6. (I have finally convinced my wife
that this is really going to happen! :^) I am currently working on building
a tool collection. I have a slight advantage since Boeing surplus sales is
nearby. (new and some experienced Clecos for .25 ea!) I still havn't
ordered my tail kit but hope to soon.
**************************************************
Kevin Vap
Olathe, KS (Kansas City metro)
kvap@sky.net (http://www.sky.net/~kvap)
RV-6 SN-24163
- just getting started (plans->tools->tail-kit any day)
- planning electric flaps, O-360, tip-up
- attending late September builders clinic @ Van's
- software engineer working for GPS manufacturer (Garmin)
**************************************************
MAINE:
Mike Draper
Bridgewater, MA
michael.draper(at)stream.com
RV6
Industry: Software, Systems Development.
Myself: Married, two boys (7 & 9). Project was placed on hold past 3
years while my job had me on the road 70% time. Joined a new company
in April, 0% travel, found this list and can't wait to dust off my
project. Was able to get some acro training in the past few years,
makes you really appreciate the RV...
**************************************************
Gary Bataller
Westboro, MA
bataller(at)hki127.ed.ray.com
RV6A, N615RV
I am transporting my plane to the airport on August 12th, and will
complete it there. I estimate about 2 more months of work.
Married, 4 kids (8,13,15,17); software engineer (ATC systems)
**************************************************
MARYLAND:
Dave Hyde
Chesapeake Beach, MD
nauga(at)windvane.umd.edu
RV-4
Empennage complete, Wings ~70% complete, Ordering fuse soon
Bells and whistles: 2-axis electric trim (installed)
planning electric flaps.
I'm a flight test engineer for the Navy, working flying qualities/stability
and control of attack airplanes.
**************************************************
MINNESOTA:
Joe Larson
Golden Valley, Minnesota
jpl(at)showpg.mn.org
RV-6A
Working on an RV-6A. Just finishing the HS this weekend.
**************************************************
Jim Wittman
Minneapolis MN
Jim Wittman(at)73362.2004 (CompuServe)
RV-6 S/N 24048
Tail @ 50%; Wings on order
I have 51 yrs, though it doesn't seem like it except when I try to get out of
bed. I'm married; one of our combined 7 kids is away and three more will be out
in the next year. I run a truck maintenance business; but unfortunately that
does NOT make me a mechanic. I flew helicopters for 10 yrs, Army and comm'l,
and had a little exposure to our maintenance operations (still didn't learn
enough to help me now). I'll get the best engine I can afford when I get that
far. O-360 w/ C/S, Throttle-body fuel system and elec ignition preferred. I
hope to equip for IFR so that my trips can be somewhat more reliable.
**************************************************
Larry Groom
Prior Lake, MN
lgroom(at)millcomm.com
KE0VZ ke0vz(at)wb0gdb.mn.usa
RV6 #23782
Horizontal Stab complete. (Summer is here gotta golf!)
Pilot for Northwest Airlines
**************************************************
MISSOURI
James Cone
St. Charles, MO
jamescone(at)aol.com
RV-6A 22929 N929JC
TAIL, WINGS, & FUSELAGE COMPLED. WORKING ON FINISHING KIT.
FULL IFR PANEL, O-320E2D 160HP, MICRO MONITOR ENGINE INSTRUMENT SYSTEM,
ELLISON THROTTLE BODY, SKY-TECH STARTER, PELICAN 65 AMP ALTERNATOR, SENSENICH
FIXED PITCH PROP, SLIDER CANOPY, ELECTRIC FLAPS, ELECTRIC TRIM, MANUAL
AILERON TRIM, SELF DESIGNED MANUAL RUDDER TRIM. HOPE TO BE FLYING NEXT YEAR.
AIRLINE CAPTAIN FOR TWA. RETIRED LT. COL. USAF PILOT. AVIATION NEWSPAPER
COLUMNIST. EDITOR OF VAN'S AIR FORCE, TRI-STATE WING NEWSLETTER. COMPLETED
AND FLEW A SEA HAWKER COMPOSITE AMPHIBIAN THAT HAS SINCE BEEN SOLD. EAA
FLIGHT ADVISOR FOR HIGH PERFORMANCE AIRCRAFT. VICE PRESIDENT OF EAA CHAPTER
32, ST. LOUIS, MO.
***************************************************
NEW JERSEY:
Gary Corde
Asbury, NJ
RV6junkie(at)aol.com
RV-6 s/n 21194 N211GC
My RV is based at Alexandria Field in NJ and is about 99.9% complete.
The aircraft was started in October of 1990. Should be flying around
the time Oshkosh starts. It has a slide-back canopy, electric trim.
auto-pilot, IFR pannel, DJ Larsen interior, CD Player and a list of
stuff that I can't even remember. It is powered by a 160hp Lycoming
turning a Performance 3-bladed prop. I had the prop on a friends RV-4
and it was great....can't wait to fly it on my -6.
My wife (Malia) and our two children (Kyle & Connor) live in Asbury,
New Jersey. I am 32 years old and make my living as an aviation
insurance broker in New York city.
This was the first aircraft that I have built. I had a lot of support from
local RV-ers. There are three other RV aircraft in my hangar. There are
about 3 more RV-4 flying in the area with another 4 or 5 other RV's going
together.
**************************************************
Tom Goeddel
Fair Haven, NJ
t.goeddel(at)att.com
RV-6a SN-22041
Empennage is complete, left wing is almost done, much of the little stuff
(fluting, deburring, and priming ribs, making fittings, etc.) done for right
wing. Planning on manual trim, electric flaps, and sliding canopy.
Avionics will be basic VFR (radio, GPS). On the fence about gyros.
No decision on engine, prop, etc. Building in a 1-car garage. Married, with
2 kids (8 year old twins) and an overweight cat who doesn't respect tools.
Started project 4/92. Sloooow but steady progress.
**************************************************
Mike Pilla
Old Bridge, NJ
mpilla(at)ccsmtplink.espinc.com
RV4 s/n 2866
tail - done
wings - done, lights installed and tested, strobes working, ...
fuse - still in jig, installed flap control blocks last evening
finish kit - in hand
electric flaps, O-320-E2D being converted to -D1A
involved with small startup in computer-telephony; struggling, so it
cuts into building time, unfortunately.
**************************************************
NORTH CAROLINA:
Dick Steffens
Mooresville, NC
res6246(at)des.dukepower.com
RV-6
Finishing wings (8/95), HIO-360-B1A, Electric Elevator Trim,
Manual Aileron Trim, Sliding Canopy, etc.
Occupation: Civil Engineer, Duke Engineering & Services, Charlotte, NC.
Currently Own a Citabria.
**************************************************
Donald J. Karl
Raleigh, NC
karl@dg-rtp.dg.com
RV-6A SN-not_yet
I want to start a 6A in early 1996. I'll go for 360ci (parallel valve)
maybe injected, maybe carb. I'll start with VFR planning on expanding
to IFR (only for occasional use). Might go to c/s prop right away?$$?
Hinged canopy, electric flaps, trim unknown.
I'm 32 years old. I'm an operating system kernel programmer;
10 years at IBM and now 1 year at Data General working on
UNIX. Until three years ago, I knew nothing about planes, but since
then I've read everything I can get my hands on. I still don't
have plane building experience, but I probably have about 8000 hrs of
experience doing construction and woodworking. I think the big
attraction to planes for me is the materials will weigh much less
and I won't have sawdust up my nose. I bet that aluminum is sharp
though??? Fellow rv-lister Wayne Westerhold works one aisle away
and is teaching me a lot. We both wanted an RV before we met. Small world.
**************************************************
OREGON:
Carl Weston
Aloha, OR
carl(at)drcpdx.stt3.com
RV-6 23876
Finishing empennage kit (control surfaces), electric trim.
Wing kit on order, electric aileron trim.
Planning for 0360/CS, full gyros, tilt-up.
Software Engineer (UNIX distributed computing).
**************************************************
Jim Caufield
Beaverton, OR
caufield(at)sequent.com
RV-4 SN-3453
I am a first-time builder with zero previous buiding experience.
Graduate of the May '93 Vans Builders Clinic. If I finish this
project, literally *anyone* can!
Empenage completed, wing 50% completed (ready to start fuel tanks).
I bought the factory spar and don't regret it. Project was stalled
due to recent move, but I hope to pick up the pace in the next 6 months.
The 'mission' of this aircraft will be day/night VFR with aerobatic
capabilities. I want inverted fuel and oil, but don't think I can
afford a constant-speed prop. No gyros. No fancy interior. A lean and
mean ship.
**************************************************
Frank Justice
Beaverton, OR
frank(at)ssd.intel.com
RV-6A
________________________________________________________________________________
Compiling detailed instructions for RV6 build
**************************************************
Steve Kimura
Corvallis, OR
kimuras(at)csos.orst.edu
RV-6A S/N 24376
At preview plans stage. Computer programmer at Hewlett-Packard.
Around 90 hours total, with three little kids. 33 years old, and
have been an RV dreamer for the last 15.
**************************************************
Ross Mickey
Eugene, OR
rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com
RV-6A SN-23203
Empanage done, wings done, working on firewall, and other bulkheads.
Standard except for electric flaps. Plan on IFR, autopilot.
Undecided on engine/prop. Married with two children, 2&7.
Association executive representing primary wood manufactures in public
policy issues.
**************************************************
Calin (Earl) Brabandt
Hillsboro, OR
ewbraban(at)ichips.intel.com
RV-6 SN-21830
N66VR: RV-6 with slider, mech. flaps & trim. Empenage & wings completed,
fuse out of jig. 0-360 w/ Hartzell C/S (from Van's). Building an IFR
sport x/c machine. Planning for floats.
**************************************************
Jim & Jackie Eastburn
Hillsboro OR (two miles north of van's)
JIMNJAC(at)aol.com
RV-4
tail section under const.
firefighter (I get to drive the fire engine) wife, paramedic
**************************************************
Mike Graves
Hillsboro, OR
mgraves(at)ptdcs2.intel.com
RV-6A
After messing around for two years, I finally bought a plan set.
That was one year ago, and I am saving up for the tools now. I am
planning on a basic VFR panel and probably manual flaps/elevator trim.
I have not decided on engine/prop combination yet.
**************************************************
Jerry Springer
Hillsboro, OR ( 6 mi from Van's)
JerryFlyRV(at)aol.com
RV-6 s/n 20241 N906GS
Third customer built RV-6 to fly
Tip-up, Elec flaps, Elec trim, Vac Gyros,
Navaid autopilot, Rocky MTN. Encoder
O-360 A4A,Warnke Prop
First Flight July 14, 1989
**************************************************
Randall Henderson
Portland, OR (Near Van's)
randall(at)edt.com
RV-6 SN-21946
Tail, wings- done, just started fuselage
Editor, Portland RVators Newsletter
PPSEL&S, Instr, Currently fly a 1965 Champion Citabria
**************************************************
Don Wentz
Scappoose OR (20 miles from Van's shop)
Don_Wentz(at)ccm2.hf.intel.com
RV6 s/n 20369 N790DW
tip-up canopy
electric flaps, elevator, aileron, rudder trims
180hp fixed Warnke prop
First flight June 30, 1994, 196hrs as of today, July 22, 1995
Technical Marketing Engineer supporting PC Baseboard OEM
customers, for Intel
**************************************************
James Mike Wilson (go by Mike)
St. Helens, OR (Portland area)
James_Mike_Wilson(at)ccm2.hf.intel.com
RV4, plans# 3369
tail, wing, all control surfaces- done, fuse in jig (skinning)
started Feb. 93, Plan minimum configuration
no bells or whistles, except electric flaps
Want 180hp
**************************************************
PENNSYLVANIA:
Bill Garrett
Pottstown, PA 19465
wgarrett(at)mciunix.mciu.k12.pa.us
RV-6A SN#22641
Empennage 90% complete, wings 60%? complete, envision as 4-6 yr. project
Canopy, engine, prop configurations undecided Currently planning IFR to
be able to get through light "soup" only of the northeast US in summer
**************************************************
SOUTH CAROLINA
Ken Harrill
Columbia, SC
KHarrill(at)aol.com
RV - 6 SN 23917
I started my RV - 6 project in early spring, 1995. The empennage should
be completed by late summer. I plan to build my own wing spar (suggestions &
advice will be appriciated).
***************************************************
TENNESSEE:
Shelby Smith
Nashville, TN
Shelby1138(at)aol.com
RV6A #22666
Currently working on my wings, Fuel tanks finished but not tested
Did the Barnard Option hope to order my fuselage by end of the year. Want to
do 0-360 with constant speed but will decide next year or the year after.
Intrigued with Zoche, MDB, and Suburu options, but waiting to see.
Planning sliding canopy - currently trying to decide on lights - whether to
put them in tips or wings - hearing rumblings from Steve Barnard Re:
different wing tips so am leaning toward wing placement. Using an interesting
jig for my wings that allows 360 degree rotation - Dave Hudgins makes them
here in Nashville(advertised in RVator).
**************************************************
TEXAS:
David Bonorden
Austin, TX
Dave.Bonorden(at)amd.com
RV-4 SN-2562
Emmpenage 98% done, wing kit waiting in the garage. Garage full of
wife's junk. When the time comes, I will look seriously at any auto
engine conversion that has several examples flying successfully.
I have my own consulting business and I'm an electrical
engineer at AMD in Austin, working on verification of the K5 processor.
I'm a former Air Force avionics and missile flight test engineer.
**************************************************
William Downey
Austin, Texas
billd(at)ibmoto.com
RV-6A SN-22334
I work for IBM designing PowerPC microprocessors. I have a wife and a
cute little girl getting close to two years old. I love building
things and I love flying. Constructing an RV gives me a chance to
combine these two.
So far I am still stuck on the tail. Most of this is inertia rather
than any difficultly with the plans or kit. I moved into a new house
last October with a three car garage. I have most of my new home
projects out of the way and hope to get back to building soon.
**************************************************
Kent & Laurie Williams
Austin, TX
KWilli8027(at)aol.com
RV-6A
O-320E2D - finish painting after oshkosh.
plumbing contractor - austin,tx 5yr's this month. apx 1900 hr's const time.
oh btw. tilt up canopy, std flap mechanism(this seems to be an item here)
lucky enough to have locals like tony bingelis to assist in construction (he
owed me-i helped him with two of his), jim stugart on electrical (elec
engineer), seth hancock on engine rebuild (machinist) and finally bob seibert
and mark fredrick with painting a metallic teel green . one more thing. all
you builders who have just begun need to spend less time here and more time
on your project !
**************************************************
Ken Gray
Bryan, TX
klgray(at)bihs.net
RV6 SN: 23069
Almost done with finish kit.
Setting it up for IFR, 0320 E2D, Fixed pitch.
Started October 1993
expect first flight December 95.
N number applied for.
**************************************************
Tom & Bonnie Lewis
Dallas, TX
TommyLewis(at)AOL.COM
RV6A SN 22844
in our garage, have both wings in jigs, have runout O320E2D, flying a Cessna
182 and make it to most flyins in area and the major ones like Oshkosh, Sun
and Fun. Home airport: Aero Country - TX05
**************************************************
Diane & Bob Seibert
Georgetown, TX
Bobseib(at)aol.com
RV-6 N691RV S/N 20691
Completed October 92
455 Hours TTAF Engine 52 Hours SMOH
O-320-E2D Sliding Canopy
Took 2300 HRS to build EVERYTHING
Quality Manager @ Motorola
**************************************************
John Hovan
Pflugerville, TX
hovan(at)apple.com
RV-(didn't say)
Awaiting Tail Kit from Van's.
**************************************************
VIRGINIA:
Gregg Sloan
Herndon, Virginia
gsloan(at)capaccess.org
RV-6A s/n 22425
Tail, control sufaces complete, wing 75%. Planning simple vfr airplane.
Member EAA National Capital Chapter 186.
***************************************************
Richard E. Bibb
Reston, VA
rbibb(at)fore.com; rbibb(at)aol.com
RV-4 SN 1187
Finishing electrical wiring, plumbing brakes, misc cockpit, paint, the test
fly - all as of July 1995. Been buiding since 1988 with major layoffs but
the end is in sight.
**************************************************
Alan Reichert
Reston, VA
reichera(at)clark.net
RV-6 s/n 24179
Still in the "study the preview plans and get tools" stage.
Communications systems analyst and theatre technician.
**************************************************
WASHINGTON:
John Ammeter
Everett, WA
ammeterj(at)ammeterj.seanet.com
RV-6
I'm flying my RV-6, N16JA, out of Paine Field.It has about 215 hours
on it and made it most of the way to Oshkosh in 1992.
A broken prop can really ruin your day.
**************************************************
Doug Medema
Everett, WA
dougm@physio-control.com
RV-6A #21140
Working on wings, built my own spars, working on ribs.
Purchased one-piece top skins from Van's.
I have an O-320-E2D. Planning on sliding canopy, VFR
panel. Hope to get in the air for about $20k!
**************************************************
Dan Davis
Seattle, WA
rv6dan(at)aol.com
RV-6
I am currently working on my wings on my rv6.
**************************************************
Mike McGee & Jackie Stiles
Vancouver, WA
jmpcrftr(at)teleport.com
RV-6 ..sn 23530
Mike McGee and Jackie Stiles are partners in crime on a (planned) RV-6.
Currently we have only the plans in the box that I purchased after Sun & Fun
'94. We didn't think the old apartment would have worked well so we bit the
bullet and had a house built that will accomodate the project. As soon as we
get all this dirt to turn green the jigs go up in the garage.
**************************************************
WISCONSIN
Doug Weiler
Hudson, WI
Doug.Weiler(at)swamp.mn.org
RV-4
Started in 1/91, currently working on fuel tanks with wings about
50% finished (I work slow!). Plan on a 160 or 180 with c/s prop.
VFR simple instrumentation. President of MN Wing of Van's AirForce.
One of the larger builder's groups with over 200 members.
B-727 second officer for Northwest Airlines. Currently own a 1959 Cessna
180 (which is for sale... need to finance RV-4 and will probably get a
Citabria in the interim). The 180 won best contemporary custom at OSH
last year. I've also restored a Cessna 140A and an Aeronca 7AC.
**************************************************
AUSTRALIA:
John Morrissey
Canberra, Australia
John.Morrissey(at)its.csiro.au
RV-4
Tail group finished wings almost finished - Fuselage, next!
Just relocated to new house, building my dream workshop!
( Helped build Australia's first RV6)
I work fo the CSIRO (Commonwealth Scientific & Industrial Research
Organisation) as a computer network engineer.
**************************************************
CANADA:
Terry Gannon
Calgary, Alberta, Canada (CYYC and CYBW)
Compuserve 74267,3003 or Internet 74267.3003(at)compuserve.com
RV-6 S/N 24414
Status: Preview Plans, . Hopefully attending the Builder's
Course in September, kit purchase at the same time.
Spouse: Michelle (no children)
Occupation: Team Leader, Information Services,
Sceptre Resources Limited
Flying Exp: I currently have my Private License, and about 80 hrs.
Other: Building is something that I have dreamed about since
I was about fifteen, which is getting on for 20 years
now. My inspiration at that time was Peter Garrison's
Melmoth (sp?), particularly after it flew the Atlantic
(whatever happened to it?). Current interest inspired
by the remarkable determination of Delmar Benjamin in
building the GeeBee. His work is a testament to what
is possible if you REALLY believe in something.
**************************************************
Curt Reimer
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
creimer(at)mbnet.mb.ca
RV-6
Empannage & 1 Wing complete (almost)
Electrical Engineer, Manitoba Telephone System
**************************************************
Gordon Lomoth
Kitchener Ontario, Canada
GH.LOMOTH(at)resonet.com
Prospective RV6 builder
35 yrs old, married, I work for Bell Canada Integrated Computer Services.
Maintaing wan, lan and voice mail.
Learning lots from this list and watching Gord Baxter build another RV6.
**************************************************
Mark Richardson
Nepean, Ontario (suburb of Ottawa), Canada
richards(at)sofkin.ca
RV-6 s/n 20819
- tail about to be mostly redone, almost complete (previous builder
wasn't all that skilled!)
- planning sliding canopy, electric flaps, and
electric trim on ailerons and elevator
- I expect it to be a VFR (maayyybeee IFR), 160hp, Sensenich machine.
- planning on O-320B or D
- attending RV forum near Syracuse NY in Sept.
- software engineer/project manager - Naval EW systems
**************************************************
Ken Hitchmough
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
J.Ken_Hitchmough(at)mail.magic.ca
RV6A s/n 21450
tail, wings, fuse, finishing kit - done
engine installed - 360 with injection
wiring and doing all the fiddly bits
tip-up canopy, electric flaps, electric elev. trim
AirBeetle landing gear, 3 piece instrument panel with side cheeks
home designed electronic instruments (similar to VM 1000)
Spent 6 months in Nigeria building AIrBeetles
**************************************************
DENMARK:
Luis Madsen
Copenhagen, Denmark
luism(at)ibm.net
RV-6, OYLUI
Finished:Empenage, wings and fuselage(almost)
Options:as few as possible, I think a good a/c is a light a/c.
Instruments will be Rocky Mountains Encoder and Monitor and a G-meter.
Tilt-up, manual flaps and fixed pitch prop.
This is my first try to build a aircraft sow a keep to plans.
I fly Fokker 50 as a commuter captain, will soon fly Boing 737.
In Denmark one RV4 is flying, 2 under construction, 5 RV 6 under construction.
**************************************************
GERMANY:
Barbara & Uwe Bartsch
25548 Kellinghusen, Germany
Barbara.Bartsch(at)dkrz.d400.de
RV-6 SN-XXXXX
Just started with the horizontal stabilizer, nothing special yet.
Our Professions: Physicist, Pilot at the army
**************************************************
NEW ZEALAND:
Stephen (Steve) Bell
Christchurch, New Zealand.
Steve(at)discus.lincoln.ac.nz
RV-6 SN-23747
As of July 95, empennage 95% complete, wing kit in shipping.
will probably end up behind an O320 & fixed pitch wood prop.
Computer consultant & soaring addict, flying a Nimbus II.
**************************************************
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John P. Foy" <102370.3241(at)compuserve.com> |
The following shops are based on my experience of finishing five different
homebuilts. The order of preference starts with #1.
1. 60' wide by 50' long with doors on both ends. Heated and airconditioned
hangar on a public airport owned by a small town that appreciates aviation.
Currently I am helping construct an RV-4 in this hangar without airconditioning
or heat. I have a 50' bifold door on the front and two 15' sliding doors on the
back. We are working in 95+ degree heat and with the doors partially open we get
a wind tunnel effect that makes it better than bearable. No heat in the winter
but we are able to get lots of work done in the winter after 10 a.m.
2. 40' wide by 20' depth with a 10' ceiling and a 9' double car door. Heated and
airconditioned.
Electrical outlets at 8' intervals above bench height. At least two 220v outlets
at the same height. I use a 5hp 30 gal roll around compressor on the 220v
circuit that seems to work the best. The portable compressor saves a lot of
plumbing. Overhead flouescent units 8' long provide lots of light. However, a
portable light on a stand is used a lot.
Hope this provokes some ideas!
John
________________________________________________________________________________
from odb.rhein-main.de (193.141.47.4) with smtp
| From: | rick(at)ndsbbs.rhein-main.de (Rick Lundquist) |
hello to any rv builders. I am learning to use the net, and saw the address
in the rvator. I am in the army, stationed in germany. I am building the
empenage for an rv-4. so, i thought i would explore this economical means of
communicating.
rick
National Data Service =| 49-6783-1785 |= | FIDOnet @2:2455/304.0 |
Baumholder, Germany | -[Home of EuroList]- American BBSs in Europe |
(at)ndsbbs.rhein-main.de | For Info: bbslist(at)ndsbbs.rhein-main.de |
________________________________________________________________________________
crl.com!barnhart(at)matronics.com
| Subject: | Re: US Tools dimplimg tools |
This is an excellent place to discuss vendor quality. I too have returned
several poor quality riveting and dimpling tools to U.S. Tool. Avery has
good service and great quality!
Pete Krotje
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Marc.Degirolamo(at)f15.n140.z1.fidonet.org (Marc Degirolamo) |
I am putting on the wing skins and am debating whether to put the bottom skins
on first or vice-versa, top skins first. I know that it would be much easier to
backrivet the top skins on, and they would probably look better, but I don't
want any pop rivets in the bottom skins....Have any of you put the top skins on
first..if so how did they turn out..could you get in to buck the rivets on the
rear spar ( bottom skins).?
While I'm on the topic of skins.. have any of you "heated" the skins
while riveting them on..would you recommend doing this and if so what procedure
did you use.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeremy <jbenedic(at)uofport.edu> |
| Subject: | [C] Oshkosh / rv-list @ OSH |
Sorry Jim, it's not technical, but at least you will get praise.
Oshkosh Report - Van's Booth Viewpoint / RV-list activity at Oshkosh
********************************************************************
Well, another Osh has come and gone. For those of you who didn't make it
this year, the following is a brief summary of what '95 was like - a view
from Van's booth.
Once again, the airport began filling up several days before the show
even began. However, more airport parking was present, and the whole
north side of 9/27 was open to aircraft camping. The attendance was up
from Thursday to Saturday, but began dropping to below last-year levels
thereafter. However, the reason was probably because of Mother Nature.
The opening afternoon of the show brought severe thunderstorms, and rain,
lots of rain. The night of rain certainly made me feel for those
thousands of campers, but their Osh enthusiasm dried them out
quickly. After that night, the weather turned clear and hot. For
someone from the NW, it was miserable. By Sunday, the temps were 95 and
climbing, with air so humid one had to swim around. By Sunday afternoon,
many had given up and headed home. By Wednesday though, it had cooled
down, and as a going away present, gave us low ceilings and poor
visibility. Despite the weather and less people, there were LOTS of
airplanes. More than any other year before. We saw only slightly more
RV's though. Although 150 RVs out of 700 customs isn't bad at all.
The booth saw many people, our planes out front were big attractants.
The RV-8 was difficult to see at times; people were 5 or 6 layers deep.
Things went well for us, no major problems. We had one foreign head of
state visit our display, not bad. Overall, it was a pretty good year.
Although I didn't get a chance to talk to Mark about how he wanted the
list to be "advertised", we did try to inform as many as we could about
the group. The meeting Saturday afternoon was advertised, we saw
several -listers around. At 2:30, Jim Cone began talking outside the
booth about the list. Soon more than 25 people were gathered around,
pencil and paper in hand. After that, I had some handouts printed up
about RV resources on the net, there was interest. Finally, during the
Sunday Banquet, I made a short announcement about the list and web
pages. About half of the 330 in attendance had e-mail access according
to vote. Hopefully we will see more contributors to the list soon.
Those of you interested in the RV-8, stay tuned, I will try to get the
information piped here first hand, as soon as it comes out.
(That is if no one objects).
Jeremy
jbenedic(at)uofport.edu
________________________________________________________________________________
sooooo just out curiosity, when would anyone guess that the rv-8 be out of
the testing phase and ready for market? just wondering...
jimnjac hillsboro or. rv-4 emp. construction
p.s. how do i access the rv www page from aol? thanks..
________________________________________________________________________________
In reference to returns at Aircraft Spruce:
I placed an order by Visa. I was billed, but they lost the
invoice and never even sent my order (headset). They admitted
the mistake freely (I had proof anyway). Next they sent the
wrong headset. I was in a hurry as this process had taken
months up to this point and I really needed this headset, so
I asked if I could purchase the correct set while I
simultaneously return the incorrect headset for a refund (all
this as opposed to a regular exchange). I promptly got the
new set, returned the old, and I still haven't gotten reimbursed
for the old set.
This whole process has taken 4 months. The sales people were
nice, the customer service people were not reliable. I received
numerous statements saying how sorry they were and it'll get
taken care of right away, but it never did. The many long distance
phone calls have made this far from a bargain. I'll try not to
order from them again. I suspect the breakdown of their system
in my order has to do with the organization style where one
person does not take ownership a customer issue. I've delt with
so many people its a joke. It's sad, cuz most of the people
were nice people.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Don Karl karl@dg-rtp.dg.com (919)248-5915
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dierks(at)austin.ibm.com |
| Subject: | Re: Aircraft Spruce |
After similar order problems, they are the last place
I order from. I really like Wicks and Alexander.
I have been burned many times by Spruce over items that
they should have in stock and then backorder as they don't
have them.
Here is one for you, I did order some parts from ACS in
Dec. There was one thing that they had and no one else
had so I ordered from them. I needed some other AN nuts
and bolts so just ordered it at the same time.
Well, the order taker was this man. He said he was kind
of new on the job. He looked up each item on the computer
and then he wrote out the order on paper. He said he
did not know how to enter an order on the computer.
He made comments like "I hope they can read my writting".
Sure enough, the sent one of the bolts as the wrong length.
A friend of mine ordered some dope and fabric from ACS also
and he got this same person a few months later and he
was still writting out the orders.
Herman Dierks, Dept. E54S, AWSD Austin, Texas
mail: dierks(at)austin.ibm.com VM: DIERKS at AUSVM6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Graves <mgraves(at)ptdcs2.intel.com> |
>
> sooooo just out curiosity, when would anyone guess that the rv-8 be out of
> the testing phase and ready for market? just wondering...
>
> jimnjac hillsboro or. rv-4 emp. construction
>
At a local builders group meeting here in RV country (PDX) Ken Scott of Van's
said a few words about the "-8". He said not to expect a kit for at least 2
years, an the -8 of today is not necessarily the same as the kit of tomorrow.
He also cautioned against throwing out the 4 on speculation the the -8 is just
around the corner. The -8 is NOT just aound the corner. The -8 has been
described as a -4 on steroids. It is said that Van arrived home from OSH about
2 hours before everyone else.
Mike Graves
RV-6A in box on closet shelf
offer pending on house (WITH SHOP!)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | donmack(at)interaccess.com (Don Mack) |
| Subject: | Re: wing skinning |
We back riveted the top skin on. With two people, we should be able to get the
entire bottom skin on without pop rivets. we left out the inboard first 4 ribs
as per
suggestions.
don mack
6a
>
>I am putting on the wing skins and am debating whether to put the bottom skins
>on first or vice-versa, top skins first. I know that it would be much easier to
>backrivet the top skins on, and they would probably look better, but I don't
>want any pop rivets in the bottom skins....Have any of you put the top skins on
>first..if so how did they turn out..could you get in to buck the rivets on the
>rear spar ( bottom skins).?
> While I'm on the topic of skins.. have any of you "heated" the skins
>while riveting them on..would you recommend doing this and if so what procedure
>did you use.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Graves <mgraves(at)ptdcs2.intel.com> |
> > At a local builders group meeting here in RV country (PDX)...
>
> ...so why wasn't this guy there? Isn't Hillsboro RV country, too? |-)
>
> Nice summation, Mike. The only part you left out was the 350 pounders
> "trying to pass for 250".
>
> >
>
>
Sorry Jim,
I said PDX for the benefit of the national guys. I consider Hillsboro
and Twin Oaks to be my aviation home. :-)
Mike Graves
Trying to buy house to get RV-6A out of box
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Hathcock <scotth(at)hpltbz.fc.hp.com> |
| Subject: | Tail kit questions |
Hi, I am Scott Hathcock and have just started my tail kit. I have a couple of
simple questions.
1) Can I cut out the lightening holes on the bottom rudder rib? The plans don't
call this out but the rings are there.
2) Is there a correct direction for the rivets which hold the doublers to the
spar channel? Manufactuerd head on the doubler or on the channel? Again
I don't see this on the plans.
Thanks for the help and I've enjoyed the information exchange.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Aircraft Spruce |
| From: | "Kevin E. Vap" <kvap(at)solar.sky.net> |
-- [ From: Kevin E. Vap * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] --
I'll echo similar problems with them, and I haven't even ordered real
aircraft parts yet. These problems were just in getting the catalog and
some general pilot supplies.
I too will stay away from Aircraft Spruce unless absolutely necessary.
-Kevin Vap
kvap@sky.net http://www.sky.net/~kvap
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Chandler <mauser(at)Claris.COM> |
So, if the eventual replacement for the RV-4 is the RV-8. Is the RV-6 going
to be supplanted by the RV-10, or RV-12? And what is the RV-7?
:-)
--
"Wait a minute, you expect us innocent children to climb up dangerous
scaffolding and paint naked people all over a church? We'll do it!!"
-- Yakko Warner, Animaniacs
"Yeah, I've got ADD, you wanna make something of.... oooh, cool. Look!"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: Aircraft Spruce |
I've ordered several things from Aircraft Spruce, and never had
a problem. I did get the fancy heated pitot-tube for $129 from
them and later found out it was 20 bucks cheaper from Wicks.
That was my fault for not shopping around though.
Randall Henderson
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Graves <mgraves(at)ptdcs2.intel.com> |
Richard Chandler Writes:
>
> So, if the eventual replacement for the RV-4 is the RV-8. Is the RV-6 going
> to be supplanted by the RV-10, or RV-12? And what is the RV-7?
> :-)
>
Van is not the type to make model changes, but instead makes a steady stream
of improvements (remember the VW Bug?). The basic RV design dates back to the
early seventies. Van's said that there is no plans for a -7, -10, or -12.
I doubt that Van would discontinue the RV-4 because it is so popular. Even the
old RV-3 is kept around for old times sake. In my opinion (for what it's worth),the
RV is still the best kitplane bang for the buck. :-)
Mike Graves
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gil(at)rassp.hac.com (Gil Alexander) |
| Subject: | Spraying nasty stuff - question |
RV-listers,
John Hovan recently warned me about spraying Imron, and we have all
heard the warnings about this paint, and other polyurethane paints
containing isocynates ... thanks for the thought, John.
I want to start some Imron painting inside my RV6A soon, and need
some protection since I don't really want to kill myself :^)
I have seen supplied-air hoods advertised for about $70, which
seems reasonable, but that still leaves the question of an exterior (to the
painting area) pressurized air supply. Hobby-Air(?) sells a unit for about
$330, but I remember that I saw something in an old Kitplanes magazine
about a guy using a brown paper bag (with clear panel taped in!), a garden
hose, and Shop Vac as a air supply.
While all of this seemed so crude (cheap?) at the time, I didn't
even bother keep the article. Since then, I've seen the above hood
advertized, and wonder on the practicality of buying a Shop Vac just for
the purpose of an air supply. I think cheaper Vac units can be bought for
$50-60. Flex hose should be easy to come by (Van's conduit?), add a
painters Tyvek suit, and the total cost should be quite reasonable for good
personal protection.
My questions are:
Do you know anyone doing anything similar?
Has anyone got a copy of the Kitplanes article I saw??
Any other comments or thoughts??
... thanks ... Gil Alexander, RV6A, #20701 ... working on upper aft fuse.
frame and skins
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RV-LISTERS Correction (non-tech) |
Sorry to bug everyone with this, but I seem to have made a fairly serious
mistake on the list. Thanks to David Rodenhiser who correctly pointed out
that MA stands for Massachusetts not Maine. [Maine was easier to spell :-) ]
My appologies to the 2 guys that I incorrectly put under Maine. I sent a
corrected list to John Hovan that also has a few late entries added. Look
for that on his RV Web Page.
Russell Duffy
(Geographically Challenged)
PS- Note the comments on one of the late entries:
Jim Stugart
Round Rock (Austin), TX
DerFlieger(at)AOL.com
RV-6
One of the first finished in 1990.
180/cs prop, Tip up, Steerable tailwheel, Navaid AP, 300 Hrs.
Presently converting to an RV-6A, Elec. flaps/elev. trim, Van's air filter,
removing center console, adding lower panel, and fixing various other
problems.
OK Jim, tell us more. Why are you converting to a 6A? Many people are
trying to decide between the 6 and 6A. I'm sure any first hand experience
would be welcome.
Thanks (sorry to put you on the spot)
RD
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | support (Matronics Technical Support 1+ 510-447-9886) |
| Subject: | RV-LIST Flames... |
--------------
>
> Matt,
> I opened my mailbox this morning to find World War III underway.
> I found the remarks and open hostility displayed by Mr. Remi Khu to be
> offensive and out of line. I enjoy the camraderie that we have here on the
> list and I am disturbed by his flames against Jerry Springer.
>
>
--------------
Mr. Khu,
The message above is typical of a number of complaints that I have received
regarding your conduct on the rv-list. Please try to control yourself and
your postings to the list. We on the rv-list consider everyone here family,
and personal attacts are quite unnecessary.
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
RV-LIST Administrator.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JamesCone(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: micro monitor engine instrument system |
I paid about $1300. for the micro monitor and all of the sensors except the
carb temp probe. All indications are very accurate and stable, eg. the RPM
is in tens of revolutions even though the system accurately measures the RPM
to one RPM. This keeps the display from constantly changing unnecessarily.
The cost of the Vision system is much higher. The airspeed/altitude encoder
is a good value if you don't have and encoder for your transponder already.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle (Matt G. Dralle 1+ 510-447-9886) |
crl.com!barnhart(at)matronics.com, smbrown(at)cisco.com
| Subject: | Re: Re[2]: US Tools dimplimg tools |
>--------------
>Back in the OLDEN days when I was building an RV4 I got many of my
>tools from US. They were marginal at best. Avery was just getting
>started supplying tools and a small selection. Since I've begun working
>on the RV3 prototype re-build I have accumulated (bought/borrowed) tools
>that come from Avery. They are far superior of anything I have from US.
>I recommend Avery very strongly. They are still small enough to care.
>--------------
Now, maybe I havn't ordered a tool from US in quite a while - I started back in
1988, but I ordered my first batch of tools from ATS. What a pile of crap. I
was so disappointed. I then placed an order with US for a number of things
and they were all very good - at least compared to ATS, I guess. I've never
been disappointed with tools I've ordered from US. What's the deal??
Matt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle (Matt G. Dralle 1+ 510-447-9886) |
| Subject: | Re: Wing skins -or- I've GOT to meet this guy |
>--------------
>> Van's answer was:
>>
>> "The single skin is heavier; you don't get performance by
>> being lazy."
>
>Why do I think an hour's conversation with Van would be very
>informative and interesting?
>
>Joe Larson
>--------------
Hum, it would seem to me that an hour of heeded tips like that might just
build a pretty awsome airplane - hey wait a minute - the RV is an awsome
airplane. See, I told you!
Matt
July 25, 1995 - August 14, 1995
RV-Archive.digest.vol-ao