RV-Archive.digest.vol-au
November 04, 1995 - November 26, 1995
Bruce
Compuserve,75274,3426
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Laboyteaux(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Rear Spar Help Needed |
I also had to trim the aileron gap seal back to step up onto the rear
spar stiffener just the same as David from comuserve.com. Another builder
that works with me also had to do this. I think it's just one of those things
that isn't mentioned in the manuals, but your kind of expected to figure out
for yourself or from other builders. Hope this helps.
Mark LaBoyteaux
RV-6A skinning fuselage
LaBoyteaux(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | veideman(at)junction.net (Dusty Veideman) |
| Subject: | Re: RV-List = Advertising List? |
>
>Folks,
>
>Is it me, or is this list starting to become a private advertising campaign
>for the Orndorffs? I understand that their videos are very helpful and am
>considering getting them, but lately I have see quite a few plugs from them.
>Perhaps they should just offer a catalog and leave it at that. I don't get
>this list to see ads. Imagine if Avery and Chicago and Harbor Freight and
>??? all started to put plugs here too......
>
>Not intended to be crabby, just wondering about other's perceptions.
>
>- Alan
> A. Reichert - reichera(at)clark.net
>http://www.clark.net/pub/reichera/index.html
>
If you want to make your life of building a LOT easier you wouldn't complain
about the Orndorffs. And you shouldn't judge what you haven't seen yet.
The videos are truly helpful to the point that it took me 1484.5 hrs to
completely finish to flying my RV-6. I had finished everything that the
Orndorffs presented in their Empenage, Wing, and Fuselage videos in less
than 1000 hrs. My RV-6 flies hands off thanks to the Orndorffs help that
they portrayed in their videos. I'm positive that it would have taken much
longer if I didn't have them.
Dusty Veideman RV-6 completed Sept 1/95 and should be in Van's new
calendar...so there....
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-List = Advertising List? |
<199511041603.LAA01493(at)clark.net>
| From: | Ed Weber <ebw(at)hpfiebw.fc.hp.com> |
> Is it me, or is this list starting to become a private advertising campaign
> for the Orndorffs? I understand that their videos are very helpful and am
> considering getting them, but lately I have see quite a few plugs from them.
> Perhaps they should just offer a catalog and leave it at that. I don't get
> this list to see ads. Imagine if Avery and Chicago and Harbor Freight and
> ??? all started to put plugs here too......
I have seen much good (and free) advice from the Orndorffs on the
list. Given that contribution I see nothing wrong with a few short plugs.
--
Ed Weber Hewlett-Packard Company RV6(A?) 23945
voice: (303) 229-3241 ICBD Product Design HS done, starting VS
fax: (303) 229-6580 3404 E Harmony Road, MS 72
email: ebw(at)fc.hp.com Fort Collins, Co 80525
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DSlavens(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Van's Factory Alert Message |
Chet,
I know you just received your wing kit, better check for this material error.
I picked this off the AVSIG area of Compuserve tonight.
Dick
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------
10/30/1995
Van's Aircraft
Tom Green
ALERT
It has come to our attention here at Van's that a few pieces of
NON-STRUCTURAL aluminum angle have been sent out to customers in error!
This material is sent out in the 14' 2" lengths used for the
longerons and the 10' 10" lengths used in the wings! It MUST NOT be
used!!!!!! It is designated "AA6-125X3/4X3/4".
It is easy to identify: The NON-STRUCTURAL aluminum does NOT
have a web radius. If you examine the angle, you will find the included
angle is 90 degrees and on the incorrect material there is no radius or
web in the included area. If the material is correct, there is 1/8"
included radius or so between the legs of the angle. If you have any
doubt, please call immediately!
If you have any of this material in your posession, please do
NOT use it and let us know immediately! We will resupply you with new
longeron material as soon as possible.
Tom Green @ Van's 503-647-5117 or FAX 503-647-2206
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | B F Gibbons <bfgibbons(at)intellinet.com> |
| Subject: | RV-List = Advertising List? |
------ =_NextPart_000_01BAAB67.63D82200
----------
From: A. Reichert[SMTP:clark.net!reichera(at)matronics.com]
Is it me, or is this list starting to become a private advertising =
campaign
for the Orndorffs? I understand that their videos are very helpful and =
am
considering getting them, but lately I have see quite a few plugs from =
them.
I have absolutely no problem with the mail George and Becky send. They =
are as committed as anyone to home-building and are welcome to send =
information on products they offer or insights on building any time. =
Get the tapes Alan, they're exceptionally helpful.
B F Gibbons
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rear Spar Help Needed |
Put countersunk rivets at the bottom of the re-enforcement plate, and rivet
the ail. gap seal inbetween the c/s rivets. The .016 will "step up" to the
re-enforcement quite easily without any cutting. The bottom rivets in the
ribs should also be flush where they would interfere wiyh the gap seal. By
the way- you did use the top skin/rear spar rivets to hold the top of this
gap seal, didn't you? The double row of rivets as shown in the plans isn't
necessary- in fact, you get to trim the seal about 1/8" at its top forward
edge anyway (using the single row attachment method). Sure is a lot easier to
rivet!
Rgds,
Mark
mlfred(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JerryFlyRV(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV-List = Advertising List?? Why not..... |
>George and Becky are welcome in my home, whether that be e-mail or as guests
>in the spare room. They are not selling drugs or pornography or trying to
get
>your kid brother to like other boys. I for one am ashamed that any
legitimate
>person or group would have to be subjected to this.
>
> GET OFF OF IT AND LETS BUILD AIRPLANES!!!!!
>
>Thanks to the Avery's and Orndorffs and even Van for giving me a better way!
>
>Kevin & Trudy Williams
>RV-6A #24438 EMP
>
>PS. I can't believe I have to "fight for the right" even here...
>
>
Well said
I Welcome any and all information that is presented here even though I have
had my RV completed since 1989 I still learn from the people that are
following behind me, I sure wish the some of the thing you folks have to
choose from now would have been avialable in 1987 to 1989 (You know I had to
mine the ore to make the material to build my RV-6......(VBG))
Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS first flight July 14, 1989
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MGGX07C(at)prodigy.com ( SCOTT GESELE) |
| Subject: | rv-list: Nav Antenna |
Can anyone recommend a source for a vor/loc/gs antenna for the the
vertical stab. I am referring the to "cat whisker" type. I
purchased the Comant CI-215 antenna from Van's and it doesn't fit
under the vertical stab fairing without glassing in an additional
fairing. I am about half way thru making this additional fairing and
it seems to ruin some of the clean lines of the empenage. In
Orndorf's systems video, they show an antenna that fits in the area
without modifications.
Any input would be appreciated.
-Scott
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rob.acker(at)greatesc.com (Rob Acker) |
Well, I have been lurking and asking questions around here for a bit.
What follows is rather lengthy, but I hope your responses may answer
some of my questions as well as those of other wannabe's.
I recently went to Copperstate, where I finally experienced the famous
"rv grin". I flew the Glastar, the RV-6T, and sat in the RV-8. From
this trip I learned quite a few things:
1) I definitely want to build an RV. I thought I wanted the RV-8, but
after flying the RV-6T I was attracted to the SBS seating, the larger
baggage area/accessibility, and more panel space. Once in the air, even
I did not see that nosewheel . It's just a *blast* to fly any RV.
2) Being just over 6'4", I sat comfortably in the RV-8. In the RV-6T,
I had 2" of headroom (because of the 3" taller than normal canopy), but
I did need 2" more of legroom (felt comfortable only after putting my
feet in front of the rudder pedals).
3) I learned that I much prefer right hand stick/left hand throttle (I
flew the Glastar left seat, RV-6T right). In addition to the
coordination issues, I broke my left hand a few months back and don't
have full strength in it.
So, the steps I have taken since are to read the *entire* RV-LIST
archive (thank you M.D. and contributors, what a wealth of info), study
the RV-6/6A preview plans as well as Frank Justice's instructions
(thanks again), and build a psuedo "mock-up" of the stock cockpit
seating. Also secured building space, list of tools is ready, and money
for the kit is in the bank .
I plan on building an RV-6 with sliding canopy/manual flaps and
trim/wood prop with a possible c/s later. I may opt for the 6A, still
undecided, even after reading all those archives on the subject !
Armed with all this information, I still have a few questions that I
need to have input/confirmation on:
1) Can somebody give me the actual measured seat pan to canopy top
distance (taken from a seated torso angle)? I tried scaling up the
small preview plans, don't trust that. My sitting butt/top of head
measurement is 38.25". Me thinks' with headset/1" canopy clearance and a
2" pad I need about 41.5". I already have a mod to lower the seat pan 1"
from the standard location.
I checked with Van's, the RV-6T canopy *is not* available from them.
Anyone know where from?
2) My mock up indicates I need a min. of 46.5" between rudder
pedal/seatback pad. The stock seating gives 44.5", in which I feel
quite cramped. Believe it or not, 2" makes a big difference on the
old back .
In the archives, one builder indicated the rudder pedal assy. could be
moved forward 1.25" from its stock location (which is 4" from firewall)
without hitting. Confirmation? Has anyone incorporated Van's mod
(mentioned in the plans) of firewall recesses for more clearance?
3) I would like some actual empty weights and c.g.'s for completed
RV-6/6A's (with corresponding info on engine type/prop/inst). With this
information (and the loading examples in the preview plans) I can find
out what to expect in the way of loading for myself (215 lbs).
4) Regarding the RH stick/LH throttle issue (discussed at length in the
archives), I have decided on left pilot ONLY if there is a way to
duplicate the throttle and trim functions for the right seat.
I realize that may not be possible, or am I wrong? Is it possible
to have dual vernier controls? I've never seen a dual control setup
myself, and could not find info in T. Bingelis's books. If not
possible, I'm seriously considering right hand seat (that's how I flew
the RV-6 and was fine with it, but am concerned about resaleability and
becoming too accustomed to "non-standard", etc.).
Again, I apologize for taking up all this bandwidth. It's just scary to
think of investing 3-4 years and $40K and not fitting in it, and I would
appreciate your input. Then its just a simple fax away....
Thanks,
Rob.
P.S. With all that I learned here and from other builders and
Copperstate; I am going Avery/Cleaveland for tools, videos from Orndorf
, no pre-built components and VFR (changed my mind after reading
all the archives - using the money for that c/s prop ), and airframe
fully epoxy primed (no anodizing/alodyne).
* SLMR 2.1a *
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ammeterj(at)ammeterj.seanet.com (John Ammeter) |
| Subject: | Re: RV-List = Advertising List?? Why not..... |
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com, rv-list(at)matronics.com
>From: ammeterj(at)ammeterj.seanet.com (John Ammeter)
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: RV-List = Advertising List?? Why not.....
>
>>
>
>>George and Becky are welcome in my home, whether that be e-mail or as guests
>>in the spare room. They are not selling drugs or pornography or trying to get
>>your kid brother to like other boys. I for one am ashamed that any legitimate
>>person or group would have to be subjected to this.
>>
>> GET OFF OF IT AND LETS BUILD AIRPLANES!!!!!
>>
>>Thanks to the Avery's and Orndorffs and even Van for giving me a better way!
>>
>>Kevin & Trudy Williams
>>RV-6A #24438 EMP
>>
>>PS. I can't believe I have to "fight for the right" even here...
>>
>Ouch. I guess I've been told off. Ok, Ads are ok. Since ads are ok, then
let me mention again that I do have access to a lot of aviation grade wire.
Our EAA chapter obtained several reels of wire in sizes from #2 to #22, both
single strand and multi-conductor. I can make up battery cable or supply
the raw wire. We're charging $1.50/pound plus shipping.
>
>
John Ammeter
ammeterj(at)ammeterj.seanet.com
Seattle WA, USA
RV-6 N16JA
Flying 5 years
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Johnson <rvgasj(at)popmail.mcs.net> |
I am building an RV6A and am considering the strobe/position lights
extending from the wing tips so I do not have to have a strobe/position
light in the rear of my rudder. Will the added drag hurt my top end speed
much? Also, I am not sure what landing light to go with. I understand there
are third parties out there who make kits for the RV's. Which ones are worth
checking out ? Any advice would be greatly appreciated because I need to
decide soon so I can finish the appropriate parts. Thanks ...
Scott in Chicago
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Johnson <rvgasj(at)popmail.mcs.net> |
I am building an RV6A and am considering the strobe/position lights
extending from the wing tips so I do not have to have a strobe/position
light in the rear of my rudder. Will the added drag hurt my top end speed
much? Also, I am not sure what landing light to go with. I understand there
are third parties out there who make kits for the RV's. Which ones are worth
checking out ? Any advice would be greatly appreciated because I need to
decide soon so I can finish the appropriate parts. Thanks ...
Scott in Chicago
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ammeterj(at)ammeterj.seanet.com (John Ammeter) |
A friend of mine has the money but not the time to build. He wants an RV-6
with either a 160 HP engine and CS prop OR a 180 HP engine and CS or Fixed
Pitch prop. He has an 1100 foot grass strip with power lines within 300
feet of the end of the runway. Needs the climb/takeoff performance.
At first, he thought he wanted an RV-4 but, after flying from the back seat,
decided that the RV-6 offered much more. It didn't hurt that the RV-4 was a
little 'rough' and my RV-6 is, not to bragg, pretty nice.
In any case, if you know of any RV-6's for sale, let me know. He lives near
St. Louis but travels a lot. He is interested in any aircraft in the US or
Canada. He is prepared to spend from $35,000 to $44,000 for the right aircraft.
He is willing to consider a 160 HP RV-6 with a fixed pitch prop if it can be
converted to CS.
Please e-mail me directly. No need to clutter up the List with the responses.
John Ammeter
ammeterj(at)ammeterj.seanet.com
Seattle WA, USA
RV-6 N16JA
Flying 5 years
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rso(at)css.ncifcrf.gov (Becki Orndorff) |
| Subject: | Re: rv-list: Nav Antenna |
We got ours from an airplane junk yard off a C-150/152. White
Industries is one source (800) 821-7733, ask for Tim Pendleton - tell him
George sent you. We don't get anything for it, just like the guy to know we
support him, too.
Becki Orndorff
>Can anyone recommend a source for a vor/loc/gs antenna for the the
>vertical stab. I am referring the to "cat whisker" type. I
>purchased the Comant CI-215 antenna from Van's and it doesn't fit
>under the vertical stab fairing without glassing in an additional
>fairing. I am about half way thru making this additional fairing and
>it seems to ruin some of the clean lines of the empenage. In
>Orndorf's systems video, they show an antenna that fits in the area
>without modifications.
>
>Any input would be appreciated.
>
>
>-Scott
>
>
Becki Orndorff
NCI-FCRDC, Computer & Statistical Services
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rso(at)css.ncifcrf.gov (Becki Orndorff) |
Dear Y'all,
We are sorry if we have offended anyone by letting you know of a source
for products for your RVs. When we were building the first time, we had
difficulty finding some products. We are trying to offer another source for
some of these hard to find items. We would love to send everyone a catalog,
but can't afford to do that yet. We were very grateful to the Avery's for
the page in their catalog.
Thanks for all the kind words from those of you that support our
efforts. And remember, everyone is always welcome to call us evenings and
weekends for help, advice or just chat (301) 293-1505.
Happy building!
George and Becki Orndorff
Becki Orndorff
NCI-FCRDC, Computer & Statistical Services
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gretzw(at)tcplink.nrel.gov |
test
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WStucklen(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: rv-list: Nav Antenna |
>n anyone recommend a source for a vor/loc/gs antenna for the the
>vertical stab. I am referring the to "cat whisker" type. I
>purchased the Comant CI-215 antenna from Van's and it doesn't fit
>under the vertical stab fairing without glassing in an additional
>fairing. I am about half way thru making this additional fairing and
>it seems to ruin some of the clean lines of the empenage. In
>Orndorf's systems video, they show an antenna that fits in the area
>without modifications.
>
>
I used a similar (hockey puck base type) from Srurce & Specialty. The
hockey puck base of the ant (the baulm) does protrude out beyond the top
fairing, but because of its curvature, it looks OK as long as you make your
cutouts in the vertical stab top fairing nice and tight.
Mounting the antenna under the vertical stab does mean you have to make
it removeable. I mounted the antenna flush with the top of the vertical stab'
s skins on a "U" shaped bracket. The bracket has nutplates for the screws
(#8) that hold it to the skin flange, and for the AN3 bolts that holds the
antenna in place. The vertical stab top fairing is held in place with #6
screws and nutplates.
The result is a nice looking VOR/GS/MARKER antenna. All three functions
are combined into one antenna when using the Narco NAV-122 radio with their
splitter. I assume that the same functions are available from other
splitters, but you'll have to check into it more.
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
wstucklen(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gretzw(at)tcplink.nrel.gov |
| Subject: | Heated Pitot tube mounting kits available |
I am offering a mounting bracket kit for the installation of a heated
pitot tube. The kit is designed especially for the RV aircraft. It is
made for the mounting of heated pitot tubes; AN5812-12 (12 volt),
AN5812-1 (24 volt), AN5814-12 (12 volt with static source), and
AN5814-2 (24 volt with static source). Since these pitot tubes are
chrome plated, the mounting bracket is also chrome plated. The kits
are also available without the chrome plate for installation of a
surplus Cessna, or other, painted pitot tube. In which case the mount
can be painted. The mounting brackets are available in complete
installation kit form, or the mount bracket only, if it is to be used
on another type of homebuilt. The kits come with complete installation
instructions with helpful photos.
Prices:
-Mounting bracket only (Chrome) $80.00
-Mounting bracket only (Paintable) $50.00
-Mounting bracket kit for RV's (Chrome) $100.00
-Mounting bracket kit for RV's (Paintable) $80.00
Please add $5.00 for shipping.
For a flyer that includes two photos of the bracket and kit, with
prices, or if you have questions, contact;
Warren Gretz
3664 E. Lake Dr.
Littleton, CO 80121
(303) 770-3811
Please do not contact me by Internet. My Internet connection is at my
workplace and I would not feel right in abusing the privilege in any
way.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CAP10ZOOM(at)aol.com |
George and Becki...
I cruise the RV-List in order to stay informed on what is happening with one
of the most popular kit birds in the history of aviation... and can tell you
in no uncertain terms that your information has always been welcome, valuable
and insightful. The great majority of folks will simply be pleased to have
another company and source of information to file away for when they need it.
At the same time, you're doing something important... so whip up a press
release and send it to us so that we can inform the non-computer literate
RVers out there. I think you're doing soemthing neat...
By the way... flew the RV-8 (flight report will be in the January issue),
this just might be the RV I'll own myslef. Great prototype... can't wait for
the final version.
Jim Campbell
US Aviator magazine
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Day" <sday(at)pharmcomp.com> |
I cannot possibly resist to give my $.02, but I'll keep it short.
* My perception of the rv-list is to help builders, therefore if the product
being advertised may helps us, it's good.
* If someone begins exclusive advertisement on the list, it should be done
from a web page that links lots of useful places for us builders. (Then we
can get the information when we need it)
* George and Becki appear to follow the list like any other builder offering
help when they can. When they do mention a product, it is to let you know
it's new, check it out if it might help your project. I don't recall ever
hearing about a product over and over... etc. If every day I sat down and
had to sift through 50 advertisements, I'd get pissed.
P.S. The delete key has been mentioned, so one more thing. If advertising
bothers some people, maybe we could implement a standard in the Subject
section of E-Mail.
Have the subject describe the contents of the EMail in 1 word.
Subject: Question - Can't get W-XXX to fit
or
Subject: Advertise - Need a new cleko?
or
Subject: For Sale - Getting rid of my F16
or
Subject: Wanted - I want to buy a completed RV
This makes it real easy to delete messages when you have something like
Eudora or equivalent that lists out all your mail by Subject.
Just a thought
-Steve Day
sday(at)pharmcomp.com
(CK ID - RV6a RV for short)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com (Ross Mickey ) |
| Subject: | J-Channel Attach F606 & 610 |
I am wondering how the 2 J channels on the bottom of the 6-A Fuselage
attach to the F606 and F-610. Do you cut the J - flange off and rivet
the remaining flange to the outside of the bulkhead or the inside of
the bulkhead or bend the flange +/-90 degrees and rivet to the face of
the bulkhead thus allowing a smooth seam or does it even matter???
I also saw in the paper this morning that a RV-4 landed on Intersate 5
in Washington. Tey stated the cause was lack of fuel. The plane
apparently was not damaged and did not interfer to much with traffic.
Ross Mickey
6-A Fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle (Matt G. Dralle 1+ 510-447-9886) |
| Subject: | Re: Heated Pitot tube mounting kits available |
>--------------
> I am offering a mounting bracket kit for the installation of a heated
> pitot tube. The kit is designed especially for the RV aircraft. It is
> made for the mounting of heated pitot tubes; AN5812-12 (12 volt),
> AN5812-1 (24 volt), AN5814-12 (12 volt with static source), and
> AN5814-2 (24 volt with static source). Since these pitot tubes are
> chrome plated, the mounting bracket is also chrome plated. The kits
> are also available without the chrome plate for installation of a
> surplus Cessna, or other, painted pitot tube. In which case the mount
> can be painted. The mounting brackets are available in complete
> installation kit form, or the mount bracket only, if it is to be used
> on another type of homebuilt. The kits come with complete installation
> instructions with helpful photos.
>
> Prices:
>
> -Mounting bracket only (Chrome) $80.00
> -Mounting bracket only (Paintable) $50.00
> -Mounting bracket kit for RV's (Chrome) $100.00
> -Mounting bracket kit for RV's (Paintable) $80.00
>
> Please add $5.00 for shipping.
>
> For a flyer that includes two photos of the bracket and kit, with
> prices, or if you have questions, contact;
>
> Warren Gretz
> 3664 E. Lake Dr.
> Littleton, CO 80121
> (303) 770-3811
>
> Please do not contact me by Internet. My Internet connection is at my
> workplace and I would not feel right in abusing the privilege in any
> way.
>
>--------------
Warren,
I've added the above text to the RV-List FAQ. If you would like to rework it
in anyway for the FAQ please feel free.
Matt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Day" <sday(at)pharmcomp.com> |
| Subject: | Question - Tall people |
I've got a question of you tall builders. The rv6a I'm building is for my
Dad and myself. I have no doubt I'll fit (6 foot tall), but there are some
concerns about my dad (6' 7" or around 200cm) How much flexibility do we
have when building the cockpit? Can we push that seat back just a bit
(C.G.?), or is that bracket behind the seat not moveable? (haven't started
fuselage yet) Or can we push the rudder assembly forward a bit?
-Thanks
-Steve Day
sday(at)pharmcomp.com
(CK ID - RV6a RV for short)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Tank Gauges |
I have the Isspro gauges and have the same problem -- with one gauge
only. The other gauge reads fine E-F. I've been meaning to take it back
to Van's and get a replacement. Do both of your gauges read wrong?
Randall Henderson
RV-6
> I have a question regarding fuel tank senders and gauges purchased
> from Vans.
>
> My husband is using fuel quantity gauge Pn IE R8690 and sending
> unit IE-F-385B & C. When setting up the float assembly in the
> tanks the full position of the sender produced a full gauge
> reading, but the empty position on the sender produced a gauge
> position of approximately 1/8 full (1/8 of gauge sweep from
> empty).
>
> Does anyone have any ideas for an adjustment or fix. Sender unit
> arm does travel stop to stop.
>
> Dale & Cathy Lamport
> cn755(at)freenet.carleton.ca
> RV6-A Wings and Tail almost complete
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "A. Reichert" <reichera(at)clark.net> |
| Subject: | White Flag - Was: Advertising |
Jim,
Yes, I picked up on my over-reaction based on responses from others. For
your information, I did, at a later time, put a note out on the list that
said that I had apparently been too sensitive to this because of my
involvement with other groups that deal with advertising on a local
level, and witnessing Usenet newsgroups fall apart because of such things.
Also, I have already sent an apology directly to Becki and George.
As for others on the list, my question was not intended to incense
anyone here. I believe in my original note I said that I was just trying
to get a reading on this, not get flamed as some of you did directly to me.
(No, Jim, I don't consider your note a flame.)
Apologies to all.
- Alan
On Mon, 6 Nov 1995 Jim=Preston%10AF%AFRESEM(at)wrb.afres.af.mil wrote:
[...a note on my posting about Advertising on the RV List...]
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dierks(at)austin.ibm.com |
| Subject: | RV Lighting (fwd) |
The consensus on the net the last time this came up is that the
Duck Works landing light is the best and simplest to install.
Van's sells these lights (see their options catalog) or you
can get them directly from Duck Works (Don Wentz, contact hime
at ccm2.hf.intel.com as he is not on the list right now).
I just installed a pair of these (one for landing and one for taxi).
I will send you my not seperatly on how it went. I posted it on the
net about 3 weeks ago.
Herman
dierks(at)austin.ibm.com
> From: Scott Johnson <popmail.mcs.net!rvgasj(at)matronics.com>
> Subject: RV-List: RV Lighting
>
> I am building an RV6A and am considering the strobe/position lights
> extending from the wing tips so I do not have to have a strobe/position
> light in the rear of my rudder. Will the added drag hurt my top end speed
> much? Also, I am not sure what landing light to go with. I understand there
> are third parties out there who make kits for the RV's. Which ones are worth
> checking out ? Any advice would be greatly appreciated because I need to
> decide soon so I can finish the appropriate parts. Thanks ...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ecole(at)ix.netcom.com (EDWARD COLE ) |
| Subject: | Re: RV-List = Advertising List? |
You wrote:
>
>
>Just one more opinion: I have never seen a communication from the
>Orndorffs that didn't seem to be motivated by a helpful spirit. Ads
are
>one thing; advice from an experienced builder is something else, even
when
>accompanied by remarks concerning the availability of products related
to
>RV construction. Moreover, I, for one, appreciate hearing about
RV-related
>products. I think the more I know about what's available, the better
my
>choices will be. I value the Orndorffs' participation in this forum
and
>welcome news of their latest developments. In fact, I would welcome
news
>of new RV-related products from other sources, e.g., Van's, Avery,
>Cleaveland, whomever. Why not?
>
>Jack Abell
>RV-6A Rudder
>
I'll second Jack's opinion. I look to this list for building ideas and
problem solving as well as a source finding quality vendors of RV
materials. This list has always supported businesses that provided
quality items and has warned us all of unsatisfactory sources for
making purchases. I would rather read ads pertaining to RV products
than 50+ email messages on how to stuff a pair of ski's in an RV or how
much lighter would an RV be if you filled it with helium.
I applaud the folks who have contributed to the RV's success. We need
more Avery's, Dralle's, and Orndorffs. IMHO !!!
Ed Cole
RV6 24430
ecole(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: Rear Spar Help Needed |
Yes I recommend should take Frank's Advice (by Hovan's instructions you
mean Frank Justice's instructions on Hovan's home page, right?) on this
and other places -- Frank's instructions are much better than Van's in
my opinion when it comes to warning you about places where it's easy to
put stuff together that interferes with later assembly of some other
part.
You could also use some flush head rivets in the spar where the aileron
gap seal will go and just put the gap seal over them and add the rivets
thru the gap seal and spar when the time comes, but it's probably
easier to just leave some of them out. I didn't do either and it was a
bit of a pain to deal with afterward.
Randall Henderson
RV-6
> I'm constructing both left and right wing rear spars for a 6A. The plans
> call for riveting two stiffeners (W-607E&F) to the aft side of the rear spar.
> The plans show 6 rivets installed in the outboard stiffner and 9 rivets
> installed in the center stiffner. Hovans plans call for leaving the bottom
> rivets out of the stiffners now (a total of 5 rivets per spar) to facilitate
> aileron gap seal installation later.
> QUESTION: Do I install the rivets now as per the plans or leave them out
> until later as per Hovans Instructions?
>
> Chet Razer in Sparta, IL
> CRazer2(at)aol.com
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Carolynn Hiatt <hiatt001(at)gold.tc.umn.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-List = Advertising List? |
BRAVO !!!!
On Sat, 4 Nov 1995, A. Reichert wrote:
>
> Folks,
>
> Is it me, or is this list starting to become a private advertising campaign
> for the Orndorffs? I understand that their videos are very helpful and am
> considering getting them, but lately I have see quite a few plugs from them.
> Perhaps they should just offer a catalog and leave it at that. I don't get
> this list to see ads. Imagine if Avery and Chicago and Harbor Freight and
> ??? all started to put plugs here too......
>
> Not intended to be crabby, just wondering about other's perceptions.
>
> - Alan
> A. Reichert - reichera(at)clark.net
> http://www.clark.net/pub/reichera/index.html
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gil(at)rassp.hac.com (Gil Alexander) |
| Subject: | Re: (technical) Fuel Tank Gauges |
Guys,
The Stewart Warner sender spec. is 240 ohms empty and 33 ohms full.
Check the sender with a digital ohm meter, and bend the stops to get the
right values at each end of the scale.
Go to Radio Shack (or your local friendly Radio Ham) and get some
resistors (or a 500 ohm variable resistor, and set it with your digital ohm
meter) and use them as a sender substitute to check your guage. The
circuit is somewhat voltage dependant, so it should be done with a 14 volt
source, not 12 volts.
Gil Alexander, RV6A, #20701 ... attached engine mount ...
gil(at)rassp.hac.com
KE6HAP
Randall, *** copy of a previous posting to you :^) .... the comments are
still valid though ...
*** previous posting ****
Date: 10 May 1994 08:19:30 -0800
From: rassp.hac.com!gil(at)matronics.com (Gil Alexander)
Subject: Re: fuel senders
Randall,
Don't use a gage for calibration, the scale and pointer just
don't have a good enough resolution. Do calibrate the senders before tank
close-up ..... beg, borrow or steal a good digital meter, and adjust the
senders to 33 ohms and 240 ohms at each end of the scale. Then your
senders should work with any accurate, compatible meter.
keep on gaging ..... Gil Alexander
*** end previous posting ****
>I have the Isspro gauges and have the same problem -- with one gauge
>only. The other gauge reads fine E-F. I've been meaning to take it back
>to Van's and get a replacement. Do both of your gauges read wrong?
>
>Randall Henderson
>RV-6
>
>> I have a question regarding fuel tank senders and gauges purchased
>> from Vans.
>>
>> My husband is using fuel quantity gauge Pn IE R8690 and sending
>> unit IE-F-385B & C. When setting up the float assembly in the
>> tanks the full position of the sender produced a full gauge
>> reading, but the empty position on the sender produced a gauge
>> position of approximately 1/8 full (1/8 of gauge sweep from
>> empty).
>>
>> Does anyone have any ideas for an adjustment or fix. Sender unit
>> arm does travel stop to stop.
>>
>> Dale & Cathy Lamport
>> cn755(at)freenet.carleton.ca
>> RV6-A Wings and Tail almost complete
>>
________________________________________________________________________________
Just like to add my thoughts:
George and Becky only "advertise" when answering a question directly,
or introducing something new. They always have good advice, and it
is obvious from their responses that they follow the list.
I, for one, hope that they continue to "advertise" in this fashion,
as I have found it extremely helpful, learning from their experience,
and becoming aware of helpful products.
Woody
RV-6 empennage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JIM SCHMIDT <JIM.SCHMIDT(at)mail.mei.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Advertising -Reply |
>>> 11/06/95 10:23am >>>
By the way... flew the RV-8 (flight report
will be in the January issue), this just
might be the RV I'll own myslef. Great
prototype... can't wait for the final
version.
Jim Campbell
US Aviator magazine
Jim, I read your magazine and you say
that about a least one kit every several
months.
I'm not sure I can believe you.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rob.acker(at)greatesc.com (Rob Acker) |
Steve Day wrote:
PH>I've got a question of you tall builders. The rv6a I'm building is for my
PH>Dad and myself. I have no doubt I'll fit (6 foot tall), but there are some
PH>concerns about my dad (6' 7" or around 200cm) How much flexibility do we
PH>have when building the cockpit? Can we push that seat back just a bit
PH>(C.G.?), or is that bracket behind the seat not moveable? (haven't started
PH>fuselage yet) Or can we push the rudder assembly forward a bit?
Hi Steve,
I just yesterday posted a similar question. I am 6'4 1/4". I built up
a small mockup to sit in (I have not started building yet). 6'7" is
going to be *real* cramped. My research so far indicates you can lower
the seat pans 1"; the preview plans state there is a way to cut
firewall recesses so the rudder pedals can be moved forward (contact
Van's for the mods, if you get them *please* forward to me as I am
interested in this as well).
Regarding moving the seat back...I contemplated this but do not want to
have a further rearward c.g. shift.
Good luck, Rob.
* SLMR 2.1a *
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rob.acker(at)greatesc.com (Rob Acker) |
| Subject: | Building space... |
Well, the building space I had for my RV project is gone.
Coincidentally, I am looking for new living quarters as well.
Anyone have a hanger for rent (or garage, or house w/garage, or split
a hanger, industrial property, or whatever)? Somewhere within the
confines of Torrance, Corona, Irvine CA area.
Thanks, Rob.
* SLMR 2.1a *
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: (technical) Fuel Tank Gauges |
Gil:
I got the "new style" Stewart Warner senders -- they don't have
adjustable stops like the old ones, so I just adjusted the arm so that
the float would almost hit the top and bottom of the tank when at it's
fixed stops. I don't think you can do any more mechanical calibration
than that with this type of sender. But one of the gauges shows the
same erroneous reading with either sender, the other one reads
correctly so it seems to me I need a new gauge, don't you think?
Randall Henderson
RV-6
>
> Don't use a gage for calibration, the scale and pointer just
> don't have a good enough resolution. Do calibrate the senders before tank
> close-up ..... beg, borrow or steal a good digital meter, and adjust the
> senders to 33 ohms and 240 ohms at each end of the scale. Then your
> senders should work with any accurate, compatible meter.
>
> keep on gaging ..... Gil Alexander
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Day" <sday(at)pharmcomp.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Question - Tall people |
>I just yesterday posted a similar question. I am 6'4 1/4". I built up
>a small mockup to sit in (I have not started building yet). 6'7" is
>going to be *real* cramped. My research so far indicates you can lower
>the seat pans 1"; the preview plans state there is a way to cut
>firewall recesses so the rudder pedals can be moved forward (contact
>Van's for the mods, if you get them *please* forward to me as I am
>interested in this as well).
It sounds like there might be some potential. I'm still working on the
wings, so I'm not going to loose to much sleep about the seats, just was
looking to see if anyone has also worked with this problem. Thanks.
>Regarding moving the seat back...I contemplated this but do not want to
>have a further rearward c.g. shift.
I wonder how much rearward one can go if I put an O360 and CS prop on the
front. I would think a few inches rearward would be acceptable. The
question is, has someone already done the calculations on something like that.
-Thanks
-Steve Day
sday(at)pharmcomp.com
(CK ID - RV6a RV for short)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TommyLewis(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Tank Gauges |
I clipped the following tip from an earlier posting on the list that came
from Vans:
Another tip is that the resistance of the sender should be low (20-30
ohms) when the tank is full and high (240 or so ohms) when empty.
This can easily be measured with an ohmmeter.
I would measure the resistance. Do both senders display the same indication?
I measured the resistance as I adjusted the travel of the floats. I do not
believe there is any other adjustment. Tom
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jcimino(at)jcimino.microserve.com (Jim Cimino) |
Well I did it, I put up my own homepage. It is still under construction,
but I could use some input. I do have limited space though. Check it out
when you get a chance at
http://www.microserve.com/~jcimino
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jperri(at)interserv.com |
| Subject: | Re: Question - Tall people |
Contact Forrest Burnett @ Rent-It-Center in Salt Lake City Utah...801 972-5193
he just completed a RV-6A to be just right for his 6'8" son . Did several mods
all look really good
Thanks
JMP RV-6 N345JE now @ 350 hrs.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ammeterj(at)ammeterj.seanet.com (John Ammeter) |
| Subject: | Re: Question - Tall people |
>I've got a question of you tall builders. The rv6a I'm building is for my
>Dad and myself. I have no doubt I'll fit (6 foot tall), but there are some
>concerns about my dad (6' 7" or around 200cm) How much flexibility do we
>have when building the cockpit? Can we push that seat back just a bit
>(C.G.?), or is that bracket behind the seat not moveable? (haven't started
>fuselage yet) Or can we push the rudder assembly forward a bit?
>
>-Thanks
>
>-Steve Day
>sday(at)pharmcomp.com
>(CK ID - RV6a RV for short)
>
Let me give it a shot. I'm only 5'11" but most of my height is in my torso;
my pants inseam is only 28/29". I have about 3/4" clearance between my
David Clarks and the canopy in my RV-6 with tip up canopy. I put the seat
back all the way back and the bottom of the seatback is in the middle of the
adjustment range. I have had a local builder who is about 6'7" in my RV as
a passenger. He fit fine; I think his height is more normal proportioned
than me.
>From experience, let me add that if you have minimal clearance for your head
be sure to REALLY tighten your seat belt.
The best way to check this out is find someone's RV-6 and try it out for
size. As far as moving the rudder pedals, I think you could probably move
them forward as much as 2 inches (just a guess, though).
John Ammeter
ammeterj(at)ammeterj.seanet.com
Seattle WA, USA
RV-6 N16JA
Flying 5 years
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rob.acker(at)greatesc.com (Rob Acker) |
| Subject: | Re: Getting Clos |
Curt Reimer replied to Rob Acker:
CU>> 1) Can somebody give me the actual measured seat pan to canopy top
CU>> distance (taken from a seated torso angle)? I tried scaling up the
CU>I think this dimension is given in the sales brochure (38.5"?). The sliding
CU>canopy
The sales lit I have shows a 37.25" pilot and some undefined space
between the canopy and seat pan. That's why I am asking for a "real
world" figure from someone.
CU>can apparently be raised to give additional headroom but I have read on
CU>the list that this introduced a LOT of additional fitting & fussing fo
CU>releated components.
Thanks for the tip! I'll have to pursue this when I visit Van's.
CU>If you use the center mounted manual trim, it will be accessible from
CU>either seat. Dual electric trim is very simple to do.
CU>The dual throttle idea will not work with verniers, but
CU>would work with friction throttles if you remove the friction mechanism
CU>from one of them. I have seen a local Zenair with such a setup.
Yea, I thought about the electric trim, but after trying it out in the
Glastar I did not like the "feel". Took me 3-4 tries before I
established trim. Then I flew the RV-6, dialed in the trim
quickly and perfect everytime with the vernier control. Besides, I
reside in the KISS reality of things . I think I may wind up RH PIC.
CU>still have a few choices to make, though:
CU>6 or 6A (a 6A for me; I'll convert to a 6A later if I really hate it)
CU>Slider or tip up canopy - I like the slider for its safety aspects.
CU>Electric or manual trim - I'm going manual , again for safety
CU>Electric or manual flaps - Here I like the electric concept.
CU>Aileron trim - everyone says go with the manual
CU>etc..
Well, like I mentioned in my original message, I have already decided on
the slider 100%, taildragger 90%, and manual everything. I like the
slider for the safety aspects as well, roll structure both in front of
and behind you. There is quite a bit of history of RV's and similar
craft on thier backs and the occupants drown/burn because they are
pinned in. Like you again, I will convert later if the -6 does not
agree with me.
CU>Happy Building!
Thanks! You too.
Rob.
* SLMR 2.1a *
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CAP10ZOOM(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Advertising -Reply |
>Jim, I read your magazine and you say
>that about a least one kit every several
>months.
>
>I'm not sure I can believe you.
Yeah... but between my wife and I we currently own 6 aircraft, so what's your
problem? And yes, we are looking for others. Such statements are real...
because my interest is real... and often results in our having one... We said
that about the Ultra-Pup and bought one. We said that about Glastar and
bought one. We said that about the Christen Eagle and bought one. We said
that about the Snobird and bought one. We said that about the Explorer and
bought one. We said that about the Quicksilver MXL II and bought one. We said
that before about an RV-4 and I was outbid for one, but I did try to buy the
airplane. What's not to believe?
Jim Campbell
US Aviator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bobh(at)synopsys.com (Bob Haan) |
| Subject: | Rudder Skins "Oil-Can" |
I finished drilling and clecoing the rudder skins to the rudder spar and
ribs assembly. Clecoed together, the rudder assembly skin on one side will
"oil-can" when I press on the skin. The skins look very smooth and tight.
Is there something I can do to remove this "oil-canning" prior to riveting
or during riveting?
Will the RTV dabs at the trailing edge remove this?
Van's mentioned positioning the offset of the ribs such that the webs were
close to each other and the RTV dab could be spread along several inches of
the trailing edges of the webs of the reinforcing ribs and "glue" these
ribs toghether. I did offset the ribs as they recommended. Seems like
RTVing several inches of the trailing edge of the reinforcing rib webs
would remove the oil-canning. Any comments?
Bob Haan
Portland, OR
RV6-A Rudder & Right Elevator; Wing Kit Ordered
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bobh(at)synopsys.com (Bob Haan) |
| Subject: | RTV in trailing edge of rudder |
I have not been able to purchase electronic grade RTV for the dab called
out in the instructions for the trailing edge of the ruddder. I have
purchased a tube from Radio Shack but it does not specify electronic. Ham
Radio Outlet does not carry any electronic grade RTV. Van's recommended
"Sensor OK" RTV from a Auto Parts Outlet. The "Sensor OK" RTV at NAPA was
for forming gaskets and does not look very good. Looks like it would
crumble as it ages.
Has anyone found a source? Would regular RTV do?
I assume Electronic Grade RTV was specified because as I recall it does not
contain acid. However, I believe the acid disappears as the RTV sets up.
Would regular RTV do?
Bob Haan
Portland, OR
RV6-A Rudder & Right Elevator; Wing Kit Ordered
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave Hyde <nauga(at)windvane.umd.edu> |
Finally something RV-specific from Nauga.
1) I'm about ready to close my wings. I'm considering just riveting the top
skins on and leaving the bottom skins clecoed until the wings are attached to
the fuselage so that I can get into the wings, but I'm not sure why I'd need
to right now. Is there any need to do this, or can I just close the whole
thing now?
2) Has anyone used or looked into powder coating any of the weldments? (Cal,
where are you?...my memory is dim...). I don't have a clue as to where to
start looking for someone who could do this. Suggestions?
Dave Hyde
Just biding my time until someone hits another soapbox...
nauga(at)windvane.umd.edu
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | OrndorffG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Wing closing |
Dave if you have made pervision for wiring you can close the wing up the only
thing you need to do when you put the wing on the plane is the controls , and
you can get to them from the inspections opening and the tip end . I would
also worry that the wing would not be 100% and able to take alot of moving
without all the skins riveted on. It will be alot easier to rivet with the
wing in the jig then upside down on the plane....George Orndorff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | OrndorffG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Question - Tall ... |
Steve the seat back is part of the F605 which also is the rear spar
attachment an can not be moved. How ever then seat itself has some movement
and the rudder peddles can be moved forward some, this will effect both
sides. A typical 6 ft pilot would use a 2 to 3 in thick seat bottom so some
more room can be found with a thinner seat. write or call me at 301 293-1505
for some more ideas....George Orndorff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JIM SCHMIDT <JIM.SCHMIDT(at)mail.mei.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Advertising -Reply -Reply |
Well I guess you told me. Didn't know you
actually owned them all.
>>> 11/06/95 10:43pm >>>
you write:
Yeah... but between my wife and I we
currently own 6 aircraft, so what's your
problem? And yes, we are looking for others.
Such statements are real... because my
interest is real... and often results in our
having one... We said that about the
Ultra-Pup and bought one. We said that about
Glastar and bought one. We said that about
the Christen Eagle and bought one. We said
that about the Snobird and bought one. We
said that about the Explorer and bought one.
We said that about the Quicksilver MXL II
and bought one. We said that before about an
RV-4 and I was outbid for one, but I did try
to buy the airplane. What's not to believe?
Jim Campbell
US Aviator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WStucklen(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: (technical) Fuel Tank Gauges |
When I calibrated my fuel gauges to the tanks, I made sure that the gage
(for each tank) read full when it was "close" to the top skin, and empty when
it was "close" to the bottom skin (sender in end of tank, rear baffle off).
When I say close, I mean that I set the sender unit end stops so they would
not allow the float to touch the skins. The reason for this is to avoid skin
and float abrasion. If the float constantly hits the skin it will eventually
wear a hole in it.
Actual fuel quantity Vs float position will never be accurate due to the
dihedral of the wing. When the fuel level AT THE WING ROOT or float position
begins to move down, you have already used 1/4 of a tank! But if you have
calibrated the float for the empty position, the gauge will always be
accurate for empty.
There is no way to avoid this inaccuracy unless a different level sense
method is used. There are capacitance gauges that use a rod that runs from
the lowest point in the root to the highest point at the outboard end of the
tank. Even these have to calibrated for lineararity, and therefore accuracy
over the full capacity of fuel.
Any attemp to utilize the float style sending unit with an "inteligent"
gauge (microprocessor controller) will result in a discontinuous calibration
between the full fuel point and the point where the float begins to move off
its endstop.
If absolute fuel quantity levels are necessary outside the usual methods
of timed fuel burn and engine RPM/power levels, then a fuel flow type meter
should be used. Shadin, Electronics International, and others, supply this
type of device, but at a premium cost. Their advantage is that they can be
tyed into the GPS/Loran devices to gleen much more important information like
fuel burn rates (Gal's per hour), fuel used, fuel remaining, remaining TIME
to empty, Gals to destination, Gals reserve, etc. These devices are accurate
to 1%. The Electronics International unit also includes the ability to
display fuel pressure, eliminating another gauge.
Hope this helps....
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
wstucklen(at)aol.com
>*** previous postings ****
>Guys,
> The Stewart Warner sender spec. is 240 ohms empty and 33 ohms full.
>Check the sender with a digital ohm meter, and bend the stops to get the
>right values at each end of the scale.
> Go to Radio Shack (or your local friendly Radio Ham) and get some
>resistors (or a 500 ohm variable resistor, and set it with your digital ohm
>meter) and use them as a sender substitute to check your guage. The
>circuit is somewhat voltage dependant, so it should be done with a 14 volt
>source, not 12 volts.
>
>Gil Alexander, RV6A, #20701 ... attached engine mount ...
>gil(at)rassp.hac.com
>KE6HAP
>
>
>Randall, *** copy of a previous posting to you :^) .... the comments are
>still valid though ...
>
>*** previous posting ****
>
>Date: 10 May 1994 08:19:30 -0800
>From: rassp.hac.com!gil(at)matronics.com (Gil Alexander)
>Subject: Re: fuel senders
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Mime-Version: 1.0
>
>Randall,
> Don't use a gage for calibration, the scale and pointer just
>don't have a good enough resolution. Do calibrate the senders before tank
>close-up ..... beg, borrow or steal a good digital meter, and adjust the
>senders to 33 ohms and 240 ohms at each end of the scale. Then your
>senders should work with any accurate, compatible meter.
>
> keep on gaging ..... Gil Alexander
>
>
>*** end previous posting ****
>
>
>>I have the Isspro gauges and have the same problem -- with one gauge
>>only. The other gauge reads fine E-F. I've been meaning to take it back
>>to Van's and get a replacement. Do both of your gauges read wrong?
>>
>>Randall Henderson
>>RV-6
>>
>>> I have a question regarding fuel tank senders and gauges purchased
>>> from Vans.
>>>
>>> My husband is using fuel quantity gauge Pn IE R8690 and sending
>>> unit IE-F-385B & C. When setting up the float assembly in the
>>> tanks the full position of the sender produced a full gauge
>>> reading, but the empty position on the sender produced a gauge
>>> position of approximately 1/8 full (1/8 of gauge sweep from
>>> empty).
>>>
>>> Does anyone have any ideas for an adjustment or fix. Sender unit
>>> arm does travel stop to stop.
>>>
>>> Dale & Cathy Lamport
>>> cn755(at)freenet.carleton.ca
>>> RV6-A Wings and Tail almost complete
>>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MGGX07C(at)prodigy.com ( SCOTT GESELE) |
I can not think of any reason not to close the wing now. I closed
mine on the jig and had no problems. Just make sure you put pull
lines in the snap plugs for pulling electrical wires later. If
everything else is done ( aileron belcrank, alieron mounts) go ahead
an close it.
I had several weldment powder coated ( main gear mounts [-6A], rudder
pedal asby, engine mount). The finish is outstanding. The best
place to look is in the phone book under metal finishes. You could
also ask at any high performance auto store ( many show cars powder
coat components) or your local EAA chapter. Try to get competative
numbers from several outfits. I didn't and really got raped. It
cost me $380 after tax for the above mentioned components. From my
local EAA chapter, I found out that the work could have been done for
half that. Live and learn.
-Scott
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rudder Skins "Oil-Can" |
> I finished drilling and clecoing the rudder skins to the rudder spar and
> ribs assembly. Clecoed together, the rudder assembly skin on one side will
> "oil-can" when I press on the skin. The skins look very smooth and tight.
>
> Is there something I can do to remove this "oil-canning" prior to riveting
> or during riveting?
>
I just riveted my rudder, and noticed the same oil-canning when
clecoed, despite my best clamping efforts before drilling. Whit I
found after riveting, however, was that it all tightened up. I used
the "dab" of RTV method. I figure either the RTV holds stuff
together, or rivets are a tighter fit than clecos, thus elininating
the oil-canning.
FWIW,
Woody
RV6 Tail kit
- Rudder done - Yay, my 1st subassembly complete!
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RTV in trailing edge of rudder |
>
> I assume Electronic Grade RTV was specified because as I recall it does not
> contain acid. However, I believe the acid disappears as the RTV sets up.
>
> Would regular RTV do?
>
>From what I learned on this list, any RTV that is non-corrosive is
what is needed. I was able to find some at Home depot. I beleive it
was called Dow Silicone Plus, and stated it was non-corrosive on the
packaging. It had no "vinagar" type smell to it.
Woody
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com (Ross Mickey ) |
---- Begin Forwarded Message
Finally something RV-specific from Nauga.
1) I'm about ready to close my wings. I'm considering just riveting
the top
skins on and leaving the bottom skins clecoed until the wings are
attached to
the fuselage so that I can get into the wings, but I'm not sure why I'd
need
to right now. Is there any need to do this, or can I just close the
whole
thing now?
Dave,
I left my bottom skins off "just in case." I already have conduit in
the wing and can't forsee any changes but.....
Some builders in the area have left them open and others not. The only
reason I heard to close now is to "have it done."
Ross Mickey
2) Has anyone used or looked into powder coating any of the weldments?
(Cal,
where are you?...my memory is dim...). I don't have a clue as to where
to
start looking for someone who could do this. Suggestions?
Dave Hyde
Just biding my time until someone hits another soapbox...
nauga(at)windvane.umd.edu
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Doug Weiler <Doug.Weiler(at)swamp.mn.org> |
| Subject: | MN Wing Meeting Notice |
RV-Listers:
Just a quick note to MN Wing Members and any others in the Upper Midwest...
The next meeting of the MN Wing will be Sat. Nov 18 at Mike Casmey's home in
Plymouth, MN (west suburbs of Minneapolis). Topic of the day will be that
ever popular.. "How to build and seal RV tanks". Time is 10 am and everyone
is welcome. E-mail or call me for directions.
Thanks,
Doug (715-386-1239)
... Doug Weiler, Hudson, WI, pres MN Wing, doug.weiler(at)swamp.mn.org
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rudder Skins "Oil-Can" |
bob;
for rtv products, try contacting r.s. hughes co. inc. 902 n. hayden meadows
dr. portland 289-6715. i talked to them today about the rtv needed and they
mentioned that what we need is what they call in the "6700 series" rtv. there
is a single part rtv but it has only a 1/4 inch bead ( wont cure if thicker )
and a two part rtv that seems more to our needs. this co. appears to access
to all of the rtv's made. they are not a retail store so to say, but can
provide you with what you need.
jimnjac hillsboro or. rv-4 tail feathers.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rob.acker(at)greatesc.com (Rob Acker) |
| Subject: | Re: Question - T |
AM>size. As far as moving the rudder pedals, I think you could probably move
AM>them forward as much as 2 inches (just a guess, though).
AM>John Ammeter
PMFJI, but you answered my question here as well. I need 2" and
was wondering how far up you could move the pedals. This would do
it!
Thanks, Rob.
* SLMR 2.1a *
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rob.acker(at)greatesc.com (Rob Acker) |
| Subject: | Re: Question - T |
Steve:
PH>I wonder how much rearward one can go if I put an O360 and CS prop on the
PH>front. I would think a few inches rearward would be acceptable. The
PH>question is, has someone already done the calculations on something like tha
I got a sample RV-6's (O-360, wood prop, full panel) e.w.&c.g. I ran
the numbers on my spreadsheet, if I move the seat back 1" at my 215 lb.
weight I lose 4 lbs. in the baggage compartment.
Rob.
* SLMR 2.1a *
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rob.acker(at)greatesc.com (Rob Acker) |
| Subject: | Re: Getting Clos |
RA>>possible, I'm seriously considering right hand seat (that's how I flew
RA>>the RV-6 and was fine with it, but am concerned about resaleability and
RA>>becoming too accustomed to "non-standard", etc.).
RA>Rob,
RA> ... I have just about decided to go this right seat pilot way
RA>(must decide soon!) and this resale thing bears some thought (might want to
RA>build an RV-12 eventually - I'm running 1 homebuilt every 20 years).
RA> I thought that by laying out the elec. wiring and vacuum hoses with
RA>some care, you should be able to retain enough slack to put the instruments
RA>on either side. If you build a spare blank panel now, it may even become a
RA>selling feature at trade-in time by offering a new custom panel layout!
RA>Fitting out a new panel should not be too bad if the basic panel is already
RA>made.
RA> ... just my thoughts ... Gil Alexander
Gil,
Every twenty years? Gotta' stay busy somehow .
The decision to go right seat is getting easier all the time. At first,
I wanted a basic IFR panel. Locating all those gyros and radios on the
"wrong" side, and then maybe having to switch later would be a pain.
However, I want to do a fair amount of aerobatics. From the list I have
noticed that gyros are failing because of such use, the full panel
(and the fact that I am already 45 lbs. over a normal FAA person) will
only decrease the fuel I can take along and remain anywhere near
aerobatic gross, and if I can get off the ground I can outrun/fly around
a 30mph front in an RV.
So, I think i've decided on a basic panel, with a Navaid Leveler (just
in case I fly into soup). That should make switching later easier, and
I might even "learn" to fly right throttle/left stick in the meantime.
I really like your idea of offering a custom panel to a potential
builder (not that I plan on selling, but when that RV-12 comes
along...).
Regards,
Rob (rv-story, tools, and empenage videos ordered yesterday).
* SLMR 2.1a *
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wing closing |
| From: | "Earl Brabandt" <cwbraban(at)ichips.intel.com> |
> 2) Has anyone used or looked into powder coating any of the weldments?
> (Cal, where are you?...my memory is dim...). I don't have a clue
> as to where
> to start looking for someone who could do this. Suggestions?
>
> Dave Hyde
Dave,
I think the shop that I used for powder coat (Continental Coatings in
Tualatin, OR) is listed in the yellow pages under "coatings" or "paint."
A few PDX area builders have used them. The minimum charge was $70
a couple of years ago as I recall, and Don Wentz and I pooled some parts
which still came in at the minimum charge. Unfortunately I didn't have
my finish kit parts back then and I'm faced with placing another work
order with themor just doing the remaining parts myself with epoxy paint
(not cheap either).
I was very pleased with the results. The finish is think and hard and they
did all the prep work. Engine mounts are are a controversial application
for powder coat (discussed previously on the list) because of the crack
detection issue.
Remember to mask the areas described in Frank's instructions first or you'll
be doing some sanding later to make the parts fit. In fact, I assembled
my tail spring to the mount before having it coated.
Cal
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: RTV in trailing edge of rudder |
I think just about ANYTHING would do. Lok-Tite makes a product called
"Ultra-black", "Ultra-blue", etc. which won't react with aluminum.
Silicone caulk would work too. Or Pro-seal. You just need SOMETHING
there that isn't corrosive and will stay flexible. It doesn't have to
be RTV. I just used some weatherstrip adhesive I had laying around.
Van told me if you prime the part first you can use any type of RTV.
Randall Henderson
RV-6
> I have not been able to purchase electronic grade RTV for the dab called
> out in the instructions for the trailing edge of the ruddder. I have
> purchased a tube from Radio Shack but it does not specify electronic. Ham
> Radio Outlet does not carry any electronic grade RTV. Van's recommended
> "Sensor OK" RTV from a Auto Parts Outlet. The "Sensor OK" RTV at NAPA was
> for forming gaskets and does not look very good. Looks like it would
> crumble as it ages.
>
> Has anyone found a source? Would regular RTV do?
>
> I assume Electronic Grade RTV was specified because as I recall it does not
> contain acid. However, I believe the acid disappears as the RTV sets up.
>
> Would regular RTV do?
>
> Bob Haan
> Portland, OR
> RV6-A Rudder & Right Elevator; Wing Kit Ordered
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: Wing closing |
>
> 1) I'm about ready to close my wings. I'm considering just riveting the top
> skins on and leaving the bottom skins clecoed until the wings are attached to
> the fuselage so that I can get into the wings, but I'm not sure why I'd need
> to right now. Is there any need to do this, or can I just close the whole
> thing now?
Pre-wing closing:
- wiring and/or conduit for landing light, strobe, nav lights, antenna (if present)
- landlng light: Duckworks is retrofittable but easier before closing
- Strobe power supply, if mounted on the spar or rib at the wingtip -- retrofittable
but easier before closing
- wing leveler servo if present -- install bracket for it before closing or put
it
in the fuse
- pitot tube (and wiring or conduit if heated)
I did all this and closed the wings so I would be done with it.
Randall Henderson
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BPattonsoa(at)aol.com |
What sort of gap is recommended between the top of the flap and the Fues?
I would assume something like 1/8", but Van seems to like his gaps bigger.
Thanks
Bruce Patton
RV-6A
Fues in jig with wings on, bolts in, flaps trimmed, doing all that stuff, in
a big garage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jperri(at)interserv.com |
| Subject: | Re: Question - Tall people |
Forrest Burnett ..Salt Lake City Utah 801 972-5193
has made all the necessary changes.. Call Him...
Thanks
JMP
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Wing Bolt Torque |
How much torque do you apply to the AN3 bolts that are used in the main wing
spar to attach the rib reinforcing angles and the tie down bracket
Chet Razer
CRazer2(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SNOOPYAR(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Add me to the list |
I am an RV-4 builder and would like to be added to the mail list. I was
talking to another builder who receives your mail and it definitely sounds
like something I am interested in. Thank you for your time..
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | NOT GETTING MAIL |
I SEEM TO NOT BE RECEIVING ANY MAIL. CAN YOU MAKE SURE I'M STILL SUBSCRIBED ?
BRY VIDA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Plains Electric EMS <pla_ems(at)nmia.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing Bolt Torque |
same as any other AN3 bolt. The torque values are listed in Van's
manual, it's at home or i'd look it up.
Dan Boudro
RV-4 #3933
On Tue, 7 Nov 1995 aol.com!CRazer2(at)matronics.com wrote:
> How much torque do you apply to the AN3 bolts that are used in the main wing
> spar to attach the rib reinforcing angles and the tie down bracket
>
> Chet Razer
> CRazer2(at)aol.com
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | david_fried(at)smtpgwy.dehavilland.ca |
| Subject: | 5 point harness problems |
I am having some difficulty with the seat harness that I ordered from
Van's, for my -6. I have contacted Van's for help and am repeating
the letter here for the rest of the list. In addition to the solution
for the direct problem, I could use some advice on attaching the
fifth belt to the aircraft. Here are the details.
Date of Manufacture: A0395
Model: AM-SAFE 9600-3
Lap Belt (both sides): 503086-405-2855
Metal plate: 500535
Latch Device: 500083
Centre Strap (anti submarine): 503086-217-2855
The lap belt closure is made of two metal parts, one on each side of
the belt. A metal plate fits into a latch device to secure the belt.
The shoulder straps have metal end fittings that slip over the plate
before it is inserted into the latch device. The metal plate is sized
for two of these fittings forming a four point harness.
I have the fifth strap which is used to prevent the lap belt from
riding up on the pelvis in case of accident. This strap also has a
metal end fitting that slips over the plate. The metal plate described
earlier is not long enough to hold the end fittings of three belts.
There is a bar attached to this plate that provides friction and
allows the belt to be adjusted. This bar is held in with split pins
which when removed, will allow the plate to be removed from the belt.
If there is another part number for the plate to allow for three belts
my problem is solved.
Has anybody else experienced a similar problem?
David Fried
DF-6 C-____
dfried(at)dehavilland.ca
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MGGX07C(at)prodigy.com ( SCOTT GESELE) |
| Subject: | Re: Wing Bolt Torque |
Get a copy of AC 43.13-1A, Acceptable methods, teqhniques, and
practices Aircraft Inspection and Repair. There is a whole bunch
of good info there.
AN3 bolt with Tension Nut, 20-25 in-lbs
AN4 Bolt with Tension Nut, 50-70 in-lbs
With the nylon insert nuts, the final torque on the torque wrench in
the above numbers plus what ever is required to overcome the friction
of the nylon insert. For me, I found a setting of 28 in-lbs to work
fine for the AN3 bolts.
-Scott
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rassp.hac.com!gil(at)matronics.com (Gil Alexander) (by way of gil(at)rassp.hac.com |
(Gil Alexander))
| Subject: | Repost - Proper torque for nylon lock nuts |
Here are the AN bolt torque values again ... Gil A.
> Doug said...
>
>So, how do you figure the proper torque for a nylon lock nuts.
>
>I am a believer in torque specs, but haven't been able to
>find a torque spec for a nylon locking nut. So I tend not
>to use them. A friend with 12,000 safe flight hours will
>NOT use a Nylon locking nut on any flight control. His
>RV-4 built in 1985 now has 1200hrs on it.
>
Doug, and all other RV builders
... here it is!! ... straight from the FAA mechanics bible
.... AC43.13-1A "Acceptable Methods, Techniques and Practices - Aircraft
Inspection, Repair and Alteration"
Notes --
1. Torque for clean, dry threads - no lubrication.
2. You can use the manufacture's recommendations (if you can find them!),
measure the prevailing torque from the fibre locking ring, and add this
torque to the recommended torque... OR ... you can use the figures from
the table (quoted below) and just use them as a final torque.
3. Apply a smooth, even pull, if any jerking motion occurs, back off and
re-torque.
4. Fibre lock nuts can be re-used any number of times, as long as the nut
cannot be turned by finger pressure.
5. Do not use fibre locking nuts on bolts with a drilled cotter pin holes
in sizes less than 5/16. At 5/16 and above, make sure no burrs exist
around the drilled hole.
NOTE --
6. Self-locking nut/bolt combinations with NO cotter pin ARE OK for control
systems as long as they clamp on an inner race of a bearing, and the bolt
itself is not used as a pivot. This is the general RV control system
arrangement, but there are exceptions.
SELECTED TORQUE VALUES from AC43.13-1A -- chapter 5
AN bolt, AN365 nut (the usual RV combination)
#10 (AN3) 20-25 in.-lbs.
1/4 (AN4) 50-70 in.-lbs.
AN bolt, AN364 thin locknut
#10 (AN3) 12-15 in.-lbs.
1/4 (AN4) 30-40 in.-lbs.
If you use a high strength bolt (such as NAS1300 series)
with AN365 locknut
#10 (AN3) 25-30 in.-lbs.
1/4 (AN4) 80-100 in.-lbs.
The all metal locknuts are usually rated the same as the AN365 fibre locknut.
OK .. for all of you who are not convinced by the FAA recommendations,
Aircraft Spruce offers a "Belt and Braces" approach. They sell MS17825
self-locking castle nuts. This gives the best of both worlds, fibre
locking AND a cotter pin, but at about a $1.00 each.
Hope this helps .. Gil Alexander RV6A #20701
PS. Get a copy of AC43.13, or borrow one from your friendly FAA Mechanic,
it's well worth reading.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | B F Gibbons <bfgibbons(at)intellinet.com> |
| Subject: | Lag time on wing orders |
For those of you about to order wings...
I placed my order for wings on 8/3/95. I talked to Van's yesterday and =
the wings should ship late next week. The holdup has been the spar. It =
seems Phlogiston has been "down" for repairs and are just now coming =
back on line. Be advised if you are about to order wings. I could have =
easily had my spar built by now and saved $765.
B F Gibbons
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MGGX07C(at)prodigy.com ( SCOTT GESELE) |
| Subject: | rv-list: drill size, #6 screw |
Does anyone know the correct drill size for a #6 screw being used
with nutplates. Also the tap and corresponding bit for the #6 screw.
I can't find it in any of my literature. Thanks in advance.
-Scott (N506RV - Reserved)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Solana <102131.2407(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | re: Heated Pitot on RV |
Mike,
For a heated pitot, I decided to install the AN 5812-12 pitot from Aero
Instruments (from the Aircraft Spruce catalog). In the catalog it mentions that
this is made to mount into streamline tubing, and they define the proper size
needed. One reason I chose this was that it gave me the option of installing it
at any distance from the wing bottom skin which I chose, simply by the length of
streamline tubing I used (about 5 inches is what allowed me to meet Van's
dimension).
I installed the streamline tubing just outboard of the access plate
openings. I filled that area (behind the main spar and in front of the
bellcrank gussets) with a doubler plate, cut an opening for the streamlined
tubing to mount through, and used angle to mount the tubing to the skin/doubler.
I'm pretty happy with it.
Rick Solana, RV-6a
wings almost closed
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SNOOPYAR(at)aol.com |
Hello RV list members. I am glad to be a part of this list and am looking
forward reading and participating in questions and answers. I am building an
RV-4 which I started in October of 1994. I have completed the tail section
and am about half way through the left wing. Everything is alodined and zinc
chromated, I added a landing light to the leading edge and plan to do the
same to the right. The spar is Phlogiston which is absolutely beautiful and
I would like to run a 210hp 6 cyl. Continental which has been made available
to me. (I know this will spark controversy) But I did the homework and feel
it will work just fine (with a little fiberglass work). Again I am excited
to be a part of the group and look forward to talking with you all. By the
way I am an Air traffic controller in the San Francisco Bay Area and heard
about the list from a fellow builder friend who is a rv-list member. See ya
on line!
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RTV in trailing edge of rudder |
I use Macklandburg-Duncan Butyl Rubber gutter sealant- about $1.59 at your
local hardware. As it is designed to seal aluminum gutters, I doubt it is
corrosive.
Rgds,
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Shelby1138(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: rv-list: drill size, #6 screw |
IMO the advertising thing is being way over played here and frankly I am
tired of all of the messages relative advertising here.
With respect to the lighting kits I am using the Barnard kit - quality is
excellent and on par with all of Steve's options.
Number 6 screws use, I believe, number 19 size drill bits.
Shelby in Nashville
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | B F Gibbons <bfgibbons(at)intellinet.com> |
| Subject: | NON RV QUESTION... Legal IFR File? |
This has nothing to do with RV's so use the delete key if you're so =
inclined.
OK, here's the strictly hypothetical question:
Someone, let's not use any names until we determine whether or not this =
is legal, files and flies a substantial amount of IFR. He has a GPS, =
loran, and moving map, but nothing IFR certified. He files /A (not /R) =
but files direct everywhere (and I do mean everywhere) he goes. From, =
let's just say, Arkansas to Atlanta, Chicago, Lexington, Denver, Cedar =
Rapids, etc. and has never, ever been refused direct routing (ah, the =
joys of not living in the Northeast or around L.A.).
Is this legal? One pilot says no, because he is using loran and GPS to =
navigate and they are not certified. The other says yes because he =
never claimed to have area navigation and would be legal to file this =
way if he didn't have GPS or loran (although he wouldn't do it on a =
bet). Just because he happens to have the toys in the airplane and uses =
them as backup navigation aids doesn't mean he's not legal. He would be =
illegal, however, if he filed /R.
Let's get it straight that I don't actually know anyone doing this. I =
was just wondering. Opinions?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard E Steffens" <RESTEFFE(at)dpcmail.dukepower.com> |
| From: | WStucklen(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: NON RV QUESTION... Legal IFR File? |
>Someone, let's not use any names until we determine whether or not this is
>legal, files and flies a substantial amount of IFR. He has a GPS, loran,
and
>moving map, but nothing IFR certified. He files /A (not /R) but files
direct
>everywhere (and I do mean everywhere) he goes. From, let's just say,
>Arkansas to Atlanta, Chicago, Lexington, Denver, Cedar Rapids, etc. and has
>never, ever been refused direct routing (ah, the joys of not living in the
>Northeast or around L.A.).
>
>Is this legal? One pilot says no, because he is using loran and GPS to
>navigate and they are not certified.
Filing direct is only legal if you have the NECESSARY PRIMARY certified
equipment onboard to navigate the coarse. ALL non-certified equipment CAN be
used as SECONDARY cockpit information to aid in that navigation.
Without RNAV equipment, you are able to navigate direct IF you have DME
equipment onboard. The method entails VOR/DME data to establish you on the
DIRECT coarse. it can be a difficult process until procticed regularly.
While taking my IFR checkride in my RV6A, I was yelled at for NOT using my
non-certified GPS to aid in an NDB approach. You can bet I now setup BOTH
primary (ADF) and secondary (GPS) devices for this and all other approaches.
Lets face it, data from a non-certified GPS is a cockpit resourse, and if
used properly, aids in making inteligent decisions.
> The other says yes because he never
>claimed to have area navigation and would be legal to file this way if he
>didn't have GPS or loran (although he wouldn't do it on a bet). Just
because
>he happens to have the toys in the airplane and uses them as backup
>navigation aids doesn't mean he's not legal. He would be illegal, however,
>if he filed /R.
>
The rules state that you MUST have the necessary certified equipment to
fly the intended coarse. If /A is used (encoded transponder + DME) then that
requirement is satisfied, assuming that the equipment is in the aircraft.
If non-certified GPS and/or loran was on board, but no RNAV equipment,
then /R would be illegal.
Hope that helps.
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
wstucklen(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Carolynn Hiatt <hiatt001(at)gold.tc.umn.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: RTV in trailing edge of rudder |
Don't use RTV that contains Acetic acid (smells like vinegar), This will
attack aluminum.
On Mon, 6 Nov 1995, Bob Haan wrote:
> I have not been able to purchase electronic grade RTV for the dab called
> out in the instructions for the trailing edge of the ruddder. I have
> purchased a tube from Radio Shack but it does not specify electronic. Ham
> Radio Outlet does not carry any electronic grade RTV. Van's recommended
> "Sensor OK" RTV from a Auto Parts Outlet. The "Sensor OK" RTV at NAPA was
> for forming gaskets and does not look very good. Looks like it would
> crumble as it ages.
>
> Has anyone found a source? Would regular RTV do?
>
> I assume Electronic Grade RTV was specified because as I recall it does not
> contain acid. However, I believe the acid disappears as the RTV sets up.
>
> Would regular RTV do?
>
> Bob Haan
> Portland, OR
> RV6-A Rudder & Right Elevator; Wing Kit Ordered
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Walsh <walsh(at)ranger.ENET.dec.com> |
#: 922813 S12/Homebuilt Corner [AVSIG]
06-Nov-95 10:33:47
Sb: #Mazda RV-4 Story
Fm: Tracy Crook 71175,606
Last Friday at around the 130 engine hour mark I experienced my first (and
hopefully last ) power failure on the Mazda rotary engine installed in my
RV-4. The sequence of events went like this:
I had a couple of instances of engine flooding after flight during taxi back
to tie down. Noticed fuel flow was very high so shut off fuel pumps (two
electrics on separate switches) and found that it was center carburetor pump
that was taking all the gas. I had seen a float hangup problem when first
building the engine when the plane was in the three point position (nose up)
on ground. Floats were modified to stop this problem so I thought same
problem was back. Changed float & needle and double checked clearances around
float then went out to flight test it.
All went well for taxi & take-off but after 30 minute flight on way back to
airport, engine suddenly lost power. Switched to backup ignition computer
before it quit completely but no joy. Was VFR under the Tampa TCA so only had
1500 ft. altitude and wall to wall buildings and houses below. :( With prop
now stationary, instrument scan showed 17 gph fuel flow. Shut both pumps down
and went through flooded engine restart proceedure; throttles wide open,
engage starter & pray. After several * l o n g * seconds the engine re-lit.
Switched on fuel pumps one at a time, outside carbs first - OK. Switched on
center carb pump, engine sputters and fuel flow peggs, switch center carb fuel
pump off, fast! Engine recovers. Center carb throttled back to off (separate
throttle linkage to center and outside carbs) and return to airport engine
running on outside carbs and pilot running on adrenalin.
I had tested he redundant carburation system in simulated emergencies but to
have it work when it counted was a real rush.
Here's the short version of the cause: Small leak in flex pipe exhaust
coupler below center carb caused it to get a bit hotter than usual (carbs are
*very* close to exhaust plumbing). At critical temperature fuel would boil in
bowl flooding engine.
I now have a heat shield between the exhaust headers and the carburetors which
in retrospect should have been there all along. The headers run so hot that
they glow red in normal operation which can heat nearby objects with radiated
heat even if there is airflow around. The cowl had to be shielded in this
area to prevent melting (gluing aluminum foil to it was all it took).
The good news (besides not being a smoking hole) is that performance was
measurably improved by the heat shield. 200 more rpm (engine) on take-off,
250 fpm increase in ROC and fuel burn is slightly lower at cruise. I think
that fuel has been slowly boiling in the bowls all the time (creating a rich
running condition) and up until the exhaust leak it was kept from going
nuclear by the arrival of cool fuel flow. No new top speed figures, my gear
leg intersection fairings start flapping over 185 mph. Must fix.
Tracy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Walsh <walsh(at)ranger.ENET.dec.com> |
| Subject: | Mazda RV4 power loss/recovery |
#: 922813 S12/Homebuilt Corner [AVSIG]
06-Nov-95 10:33:47
Sb: #Mazda RV-4 Story
Fm: Tracy Crook 71175,606
Last Friday at around the 130 engine hour mark I experienced my first (and
hopefully last ) power failure on the Mazda rotary engine installed in my
RV-4. The sequence of events went like this:
I had a couple of instances of engine flooding after flight during taxi back
to tie down. Noticed fuel flow was very high so shut off fuel pumps (two
electrics on separate switches) and found that it was center carburetor pump
that was taking all the gas. I had seen a float hangup problem when first
building the engine when the plane was in the three point position (nose up)
on ground. Floats were modified to stop this problem so I thought same
problem was back. Changed float & needle and double checked clearances around
float then went out to flight test it.
All went well for taxi & take-off but after 30 minute flight on way back to
airport, engine suddenly lost power. Switched to backup ignition computer
before it quit completely but no joy. Was VFR under the Tampa TCA so only had
1500 ft. altitude and wall to wall buildings and houses below. :( With prop
now stationary, instrument scan showed 17 gph fuel flow. Shut both pumps down
and went through flooded engine restart proceedure; throttles wide open,
engage starter & pray. After several * l o n g * seconds the engine re-lit.
Switched on fuel pumps one at a time, outside carbs first - OK. Switched on
center carb pump, engine sputters and fuel flow peggs, switch center carb fuel
pump off, fast! Engine recovers. Center carb throttled back to off (separate
throttle linkage to center and outside carbs) and return to airport engine
running on outside carbs and pilot running on adrenalin.
I had tested he redundant carburation system in simulated emergencies but to
have it work when it counted was a real rush.
Here's the short version of the cause: Small leak in flex pipe exhaust
coupler below center carb caused it to get a bit hotter than usual (carbs are
*very* close to exhaust plumbing). At critical temperature fuel would boil in
bowl flooding engine.
I now have a heat shield between the exhaust headers and the carburetors which
in retrospect should have been there all along. The headers run so hot that
they glow red in normal operation which can heat nearby objects with radiated
heat even if there is airflow around. The cowl had to be shielded in this
area to prevent melting (gluing aluminum foil to it was all it took).
The good news (besides not being a smoking hole) is that performance was
measurably improved by the heat shield. 200 more rpm (engine) on take-off,
250 fpm increase in ROC and fuel burn is slightly lower at cruise. I think
that fuel has been slowly boiling in the bowls all the time (creating a rich
running condition) and up until the exhaust leak it was kept from going
nuclear by the arrival of cool fuel flow. No new top speed figures, my gear
leg intersection fairings start flapping over 185 mph. Must fix.
Tracy
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: NON RV QUESTION... Legal IFR File? |
| From: | "Earl Brabandt" <cwbraban(at)ichips.intel.com> |
> Filing direct is only legal if you have the NECESSARY PRIMARY certified
> equipment onboard to navigate the coarse. ALL non-certified equipment CAN be
> used as SECONDARY cockpit information to aid in that navigation.
It doesn't have to be onboard. If the controller will approve radar vectors
direct, go for it. The controller will be more than happy to have you
"back up" his radar vectors with a non-certified GPS.
Nowadays, I haven't found controllers to be much less likely to approve
radar vectors direct over a "/R" RNAV request. They don't care much about
how you get there. Even with /R equipment, they are unlikely to approve
direct routings unless they have radar coverage over the route anyway.
They're more interested in whether you'll be a burden to them rather than
how you're going to navigate. However, success in obtaining a direct clearance
often lies in how you ask for it. I usually ask for "radar vectors direct
to xyz, we're GPS equipped and please confirm initial vector is 123." My
"primary" and legal means of navigation is radar, but of course I never
need another vector from the controller all the way to my destination
unless he wishes to vector me around traffic or something.
On a long IFR cross country, I once used VOR/DME (not RNAV) and calculated
my position with a palmtop computer program that I wrote. Technically
I was on radar vectors direct to my destination but the controller never
had to issue any vectors to me. After a time, he asked me how I was
navigating and I told him. It was a slow night and he was interested
in my method and thought it was pretty cool. Actually I was using a
form of area navigation which I devised.
Keep in mind that GPS is a form of area navigation (RNAV). It's just not
VOR/DME based and like many VOR/DME based RNAV, not all installations
are IFR approved. Like GPS, it too is a "positioning system" whereby
navigation information is caculated and from your position and the
location of your desired course.
Hell, a sextant, some stars, a watch, and a compass probably meet
the definition of an area navigation; the system just doesn't provide
very positon frequent updates :-).
Cal
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jcimino(at)jcimino.microserve.com (Jim Cimino) |
| Subject: | Re: NON RV QUESTION... Legal IFR File? |
>This has nothing to do with RV's so use the delete key if you're so inclined.
>
>OK, here's the strictly hypothetical question:
>
>Someone, let's not use any names until we determine whether or not this is
legal, files and flies a substantial amount of IFR. He has a GPS, loran,
and moving map, but nothing IFR certified. He files /A (not /R) but files
direct everywhere (and I do mean everywhere) he goes. From, let's just say,
Arkansas to Atlanta, Chicago, Lexington, Denver, Cedar Rapids, etc. and has
never, ever been refused direct routing (ah, the joys of not living in the
Northeast or around L.A.).
>
>Is this legal? One pilot says no, because he is using loran and GPS to
navigate and they are not certified. The other says yes because he never
claimed to have area navigation and would be legal to file this way if he
didn't have GPS or loran (although he wouldn't do it on a bet). Just
because he happens to have the toys in the airplane and uses them as backup
navigation aids doesn't mean he's not legal. He would be illegal, however,
if he filed /R.
>
>Let's get it straight that I don't actually know anyone doing this. I was
just wondering. Opinions?
>
>This is legal if he can do the navigation using Istruments that are IFR
certified, such as a VOR receiver and his DME. If he is flying a route that
he is unable to maintain a usable signal for his nav receiver, then it
becomes illegal. Remember, it is the pilot's responsibility to navigate
from point A to point B. Also it is his responsibility to maintain a safe
altitude if he does not fly on an airway. It is also recommended that you
use any and all navigational aids (GPS or Loran) as secondary instruments if
they are not IFR certified. You should always use all devices to help you
determine your safe route of flight, and uncertified lorans and GPS can be
used for this purpose as long as you use your certified instruments for
primary navigation.
Remember that the advent of loran and GPS has made it possible for
everyone to fly a straight line right to their accident.
Jim Cimino CFII
RV-4 sn/4079 Maybe RV-8
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bruce Oliver <75274.3426(at)compuserve.com> |
Jim, I hear you are putting a step on your rv-6a. What have you had to do to
place that in and will you need some help to rivet the things back?
Bruce Compuserve=75274,3426
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | cn755(at)freenet.carleton.ca (Catherine Lamport) |
| Subject: | Re: NON RV QUESTION... Legal IFR File? |
hello to yhe respondents who answered my inquiry re the
fuel gauges that did not read empty when the sender is
at the empty position. Only one gauge seems to be in error
and is os when tried with either sender.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | aortner(at)interserv.com |
| Subject: | RV Lighting - Another Idea |
Like Steve in Chicago, I am also trying to decide how to arrange the lighting
for
my RV-6. I do not want to use the position/strobe/tail combination lights
outside
the wingtips and I also do not want a light in the tail if I can avoid it. My
idea
is to put a position light/strobe combination under plexiglass in the front of
the
wingtips and then put a combination tail/strobe in the trailing edge of each
of the
wingtips (molded-in like the one Van puts in the Rudder bottom.) Does anyone
know
if this has been done before? A related question is whether I should use a
single
power supply for the 4 strobes or if power supplies are available that could
go in
each wingtip and power 2 strobes each?
Thanks for your help and/or opinions.
Alan E. Ortner
RV-6 - Tail 95%/Wings ordered
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dsorensn(at)pacificrim.net |
| Subject: | Engines, Engines, Engines....... |
Hello:
I'd like to introduce myself, my name is Don Sorenson and I'm new this list and
comparitively new to general aviation and specifically kit planes. I have been
a long time sailer and have recently decited to give flying a place in my life.
I have been looking at a number of kit planes and have set a few performance and
cost target for my search. Since you are reading this on the RV news list you
may well guess that I've deduced that an RV represents about the best compromise
yet found. The biggest problem I've had with the entire effort to date hasn't
been with finding a suitable airframe at a reasonable cost, but finding an
engine at a modestly sane (rip-off) price ......
I recently received Van's information packet on the RV Series aircraft and the
information on the RV's is exciting. One of the things I was most looking
forward to seeing was the proported great OEM pricing on new Lycomming engines
(oh-boy maybe I could find something for ... maybe 10K$.) The only way I can
describe the feeling after seeing how much a 150 hp engine cost was "stunned",
over $17,000! Now I'm sure Van's is doing everything they can to keep that
price from getting any higher, but WOW there's something wrong with this
picture. That's a 1960's technology engine ... maybe older.
I know Van's takes a hard line on automotive engines, but I could by a nearly
new Subaru Legacy (the whole car), rip the engine out, adapt it for aviation and
sell the car for parts and come out $5000 to %7000 ahead!
What gives folks? Are automotive engines that dangerous? Will the price of
aircraft engines come down once Cessna and other go back into the business? Are
there other alternatives?
It just doesn't seem right that the engine and propeller cost more than twice as
much as the entire balance of the airplane. Most of us would be driving 76
LDT's if new cars were sold with that kind of cost balance.
Sincerely,
Don Sorenson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bcos(at)ix.netcom.com (William Costello ) |
| Subject: | Re: Engines, Engines, Engines....... |
Welcome to the group, Don
And welcome to your reality check on the price of new a/c engines!
But, come on, if you have been in boating, don't tell me you are a
stranger to outlandish prices -- with that fiberglass depression in the
water into which you pour $$$.
Another alternative is the used market. Check a copy of Trade-A-Plane.
If you find two great deals, let me know. I need to find an engine
with minimum bleeding.
You know, lots of people talk about modern auto engines, how up-to-date
they are, how relatively inexpensive, etc., etc., but after years of
looking, I have really never seen anyone give a solid description of an
auto conversion that was a) less expensive than an a/c engine (taking
all expenses through installation), b) as reliable or more reliable
over the long haul (1000+ hours) and c) comparable to or less weight
than an a/c engine, all up. All of the above, of course, with
comparable power. Talk and mock-ups and pix in mags are relatively
cheap. Show me the beef!
Best of luck.
Bill Costello
Chicago
RV-6 on empennage starting the left elevator
bcos(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Plains Electric EMS <pla_ems(at)nmia.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Engines, Engines, Engines....... |
Well, I'll try to take a shot at this since I believe the only sane engine
for myself is a lycoming. These airplanes are not toys, they are servicible
airframes over the life of an engine or more. Every time you go up in one,
and I hope to put many thousand hours on my RV-4 you are placing your life
in the airframe and engine. Personally, I want to live alot longer to enjoy
more flying. A Lycoming is old technology, GREAT, thats what I want to place
my life in the hands of. That's one of the reasons I'm a firm believer in
Van's aircraft, lets face it this technology was perfected in WWII, its been
around for longer than I have and IT WORKS.
While, the initial shock of a new lycoming is hard, when you think about
it, I believe it's well worth it. I will probably have the same engine for
the rest of my flying life, thats less than $1000 a year for a rock solid
old tech, trustworthy engine. You get what you pay for. Go buy that car
engine and try to get it to work, I'll bet you spend at least as much
in the long run to get it flying and then what do you have? I would be
very hesitant to go up in it. Well, I think you get my drift. If you
want a really good aircraft, brand new, safe, spent the 30-50K it takes
to build an RV, get a good used, or if you can afford it at all new
lycoming. If you want a toy there are plenty of other airframes/engines
out their to play with for alot less.
Dan Boudro
RV-4 #3933
On Thu, 9 Nov 1995 pacificrim.net!dsorensn(at)matronics.com wrote:
> Hello:
>
> I'd like to introduce myself, my name is Don Sorenson and I'm new this list and
> comparitively new to general aviation and specifically kit planes. I have been
> a long time sailer and have recently decited to give flying a place in my life.
>
> I have been looking at a number of kit planes and have set a few performance
and
> cost target for my search. Since you are reading this on the RV news list you
> may well guess that I've deduced that an RV represents about the best compromise
> yet found. The biggest problem I've had with the entire effort to date hasn't
> been with finding a suitable airframe at a reasonable cost, but finding an
> engine at a modestly sane (rip-off) price ......
>
> I recently received Van's information packet on the RV Series aircraft and the
> information on the RV's is exciting. One of the things I was most looking
> forward to seeing was the proported great OEM pricing on new Lycomming engines
> (oh-boy maybe I could find something for ... maybe 10K$.) The only way I can
> describe the feeling after seeing how much a 150 hp engine cost was "stunned",
> over $17,000! Now I'm sure Van's is doing everything they can to keep that
> price from getting any higher, but WOW there's something wrong with this
> picture. That's a 1960's technology engine ... maybe older.
>
> I know Van's takes a hard line on automotive engines, but I could by a nearly
> new Subaru Legacy (the whole car), rip the engine out, adapt it for aviation
and
> sell the car for parts and come out $5000 to %7000 ahead!
>
> What gives folks? Are automotive engines that dangerous? Will the price of
> aircraft engines come down once Cessna and other go back into the business?
Are
> there other alternatives?
>
> It just doesn't seem right that the engine and propeller cost more than twice
as
> much as the entire balance of the airplane. Most of us would be driving 76
> LDT's if new cars were sold with that kind of cost balance.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Don Sorenson
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David A. Barnhart" <barnhart(at)crl.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing Bolt Torque |
On Tue, 7 Nov 1995 CRazer2(at)aol.com wrote:
> How much torque do you apply to the AN3 bolts that are used in the main wing
> spar to attach the rib reinforcing angles and the tie down bracket
AC43-13 has a great little chart that has torque values are all bolt
sizes and types of nuts. My recollection is that the proper torque for
an AN3 bolt and an AN365 nut is 20-25 inch/pounds.
As an aside, everyone building an airplane should have a copy of
AC43-13. Just because were are building homebuilts does not mean we can
ignore acceptable standards and practices. Wanna know how big the wire
needs to be for your landing light? wanna know the correct way to patch
a cracked skin, rib, or spar? Wanna know how to align your compass?
It's all there in AC43-13.
Best regards,
Dave Barnhart
rv-6 sn 23744
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | meehan(at)coopext.cahe.wsu.edu (Don Meehan) |
| Subject: | Chop Saws and Band Saws |
There have been a number of comments about tools over the last year or so.
Thought mine might be of help.
Two very favorite tools for me are my Ryobi 10" Chop Saw with 60 tooth Sears
Carbide bit and small table model Sears band Saw (not the best brand, but
works). The chop saw is superb for cutting .063 angle and larger material.
Need to be sure you have the piece tight aganist the fence and held tightly.
Also, never cut small pcs you can not secure well. Use eye protection!
Leaves a very nice cut edge and gets the job done right NOW!
The band saw....well you know how wonderful they are. If you have just
started your project I advise that you get one. It makes life so much
simpler.
XMAS is close by and these are good gifts to recieve....tell Santa.
Don Meehan
>I was tapering my spar flange strips with a new Sears Carbide tipped blade
>designed to cut aluminum and after a few cuts the blade began to throw teeth.
> I lost 11 teeth out the the blade which made it unusable. Is this a problem
>with my sawing technique or is the Sears blade poor quality
>
>Chet Razer
>CRazer2(at)aol.com
>
>
Don Meehan
WSU Cooperative Extension
Island County
Coupeville, WA 98239-5000
206-679-7327
meehan(at)wsu.e
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David A. Barnhart" <barnhart(at)crl.com> |
| Subject: | Re: NON RV QUESTION... Legal IFR File? |
On Thu, 9 Nov 1995, B F Gibbons wrote:
> Someone, let's not use any names until we determine whether or not this
> is legal, files and flies a substantial amount of IFR. He has a GPS,
> loran, and moving map, but nothing IFR certified. He files /A (not /R)
> but files direct everywhere (and I do mean everywhere) he goes. From,
> let's just say, Arkansas to Atlanta, Chicago, Lexington, Denver, Cedar
> Rapids, etc. and has never, ever been refused direct routing (ah, the
> joys of not living in the Northeast or around L.A.).
> Is this legal?
I'm not a legal expert, but I don't think there is any way to get a
definitive answer to this question. My recollections of an informal
discussion with some pilots and controllers is that the controllers don't
actually care WHAT you use to get from point A to point B.
Here's an example, (an absurd one, but technically correct): That
stopwatch I used to time approaches in my Bonanza was not TSO'd,
and therefore not strictly legal for use. Am I going to get busted
for it? not hardly.
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
rv-6 sn 23744
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Johnson, Steve" <spjohnson(at)msmail.mmmg.com> |
| Subject: | Engines, Engines, Engines....... |
Don writes:
>I have been looking at a number of kit planes and have set a few performance
>and
>cost target for my search. Since you are reading this on the RV news list
you
>may well guess that I've deduced that an RV represents about the best
>compromise
>yet found. The biggest problem I've had with the entire effort to date
hasn't
>been with finding a suitable airframe at a reasonable cost, but finding an
>engine at a modestly sane (rip-off) price ......
It took me a while to understand the engine situation myself. I've owned a
new Citabria and put 1800 hours on it over a period of 19 years with no engine
problems, though it did need a top overhaul at 1300 hours. Let me try to
explain the story as I see it: Every new Lycoming is assembled by hand, and
every part is checked for quality. The comparison here should be with a
Porsche engine rather than a Subaru. In fact, Porsche did try to get into the
aircraft business but they couldn't compete with the old technology Lycoming.
The main thing to worry about with a used engine is its history of use, and
type of use, which is not measured in operating hours alone. The enemy of
aircraft engines is corrosion caused wear. This comes from infrequent
operation and storage in less than ideal conditions. The cost of a hangar can
often be justified in increased engine life.
It's a personal decision, but I always felt the peace of mind that comes with
a new engine is worth the extra cost. You will find that the free marketplace
is incredibly efficient in this regard. Put another way, the cost of a new
engine might seem high, but it will add significantly to the value of your
plane. For comparison, price out some freshly overhauled engines from Victor
or Mattituck, and you will see why Van's is such a deal.
Steve Johnson RV-8 when it's available
spjohnson(at)mmm.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Standley <Gary_Standley(at)ccm.ssd.intel.com> |
| Subject: | Engines, Engines, Engines....... |
Text item:
$17000 for an engine from Van's. Have you priced one through your "friendly"
FBO or even Lycoming? I think you'll find Van a pretty reasonable deal. I
think Van has done about all he can to keep the kit price "way down", especially
when you look at all the things that are already done for you that weren't in
the early '80's. In the end, the RV is a wise investment, not a compromise.
Well, I'll try to take a shot at this since I believe the only sane engine
for myself is a lycoming. These airplanes are not toys, they are servicible
airframes over the life of an engine or more. Every time you go up in one,
and I hope to put many thousand hours on my RV-4 you are placing your life
in the airframe and engine. Personally, I want to live alot longer to enjoy
more flying. A Lycoming is old technology, GREAT, thats what I want to place
my life in the hands of. That's one of the reasons I'm a firm believer in
Van's aircraft, lets face it this technology was perfected in WWII, its been
around for longer than I have and IT WORKS.
While, the initial shock of a new lycoming is hard, when you think about
it, I believe it's well worth it. I will probably have the same engine for
the rest of my flying life, thats less than $1000 a year for a rock solid
old tech, trustworthy engine. You get what you pay for. Go buy that car
engine and try to get it to work, I'll bet you spend at least as much
in the long run to get it flying and then what do you have? I would be
very hesitant to go up in it. Well, I think you get my drift. If you
want a really good aircraft, brand new, safe, spent the 30-50K it takes
to build an RV, get a good used, or if you can afford it at all new
lycoming. If you want a toy there are plenty of other airframes/engines
out their to play with for alot less.
Dan Boudro
RV-4 #3933
On Thu, 9 Nov 1995 pacificrim.net!dsorensn(at)matronics.com wrote:
> Hello:
>
> I'd like to introduce myself, my name is Don Sorenson and I'm new
this list and
> comparitively new to general aviation and specifically kit planes.
I have been
> a long time sailer and have recently decited to give flying a place
in my life.
>
> I have been looking at a number of kit planes and have set a few
performance and
> cost target for my search. Since you are reading this on the RV
news list you
> may well guess that I've deduced that an RV represents about the
best compromise
> yet found. The biggest problem I've had with the entire effort
to date hasn't
> been with finding a suitable airframe at a reasonable cost, but finding an
> engine at a modestly sane (rip-off) price ......
>
> I recently received Van's information packet on the RV Series aircraft
and the
> information on the RV's is exciting. One of the things I was most looking
> forward to seeing was the proported great OEM pricing on new Lycomming
engines
> (oh-boy maybe I could find something for ... maybe 10K$.) The only
way I can
> describe the feeling after seeing how much a 150 hp engine cost
was "stunned",
> over $17,000! Now I'm sure Van's is doing everything they can to keep that
> price from getting any higher, but WOW there's something wrong with this
> picture. That's a 1960's technology engine ... maybe older.
>
> I know Van's takes a hard line on automotive engines, but I could
by a nearly
> new Subaru Legacy (the whole car), rip the engine out, adapt it
for aviation and
> sell the car for parts and come out $5000 to %7000 ahead!
>
> What gives folks? Are automotive engines that dangerous? Will the price of
> aircraft engines come down once Cessna and other go back into the
business? Are
> there other alternatives?
>
> It just doesn't seem right that the engine and propeller cost more
than twice as
> much as the entire balance of the airplane. Most of us would be driving 76
> LDT's if new cars were sold with that kind of cost balance.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Don Sorenson
>
Text item: External Message Header
The following mail header is for administrative use
and may be ignored unless there are problems.
***IF THERE ARE PROBLEMS SAVE THESE HEADERS***.
Subject: Re: RV-List: Engines, Engines, Engines.......
From: Plains Electric EMS <nmia.com!pla_ems(at)matronics.com>
Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 08:41:03 -0700 (MST)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Craig Moen" <moen.craig(at)a1.granpa.dco.mts.dec.com> |
App-Message-Id:
| Subject: | RV's in trailers? |
1
Msg-Class: ALL-IN-1 IOS Server for OpenVMS V3.1 BL121 (US) ENGLISH 17-JUN-1994
[This message is converted from WPS-PLUS to ASCII]
Hi all,
I am new to the RV seen but have been flying for 25yrs, fly a
Cardinal RG and have finished rebuilding a Blanik glider. I am
in the research phase of a kitplane purchase analysis. I have
narrowed the research to an RV-6/8 and a Glastar.
One of the features that keeps the Glastar in the running is
the ability to fold the wings, put it in a trailer, and take
it home to work on and for occasional storage...just like we
do with sailplanes.
I would appreciate any and all comments on options I might not
be aware of in getting a similar capability or alternatives
with the RV.
Thanks,
Craig
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David A. Barnhart" <barnhart(at)crl.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Engines, Engines, Engines....... |
> On Thu, 9 Nov 1995 pacificrim.net!dsorensn(at)matronics.com wrote:
>
> I know Van's takes a hard line on automotive engines, but I could by a nearly
> new Subaru Legacy (the whole car), rip the engine out, adapt it for aviation
and
> sell the car for parts and come out $5000 to %7000 ahead!
>
Well, here's the way I figure it. In experimentals, there are three
types of people:
1. Designers. They design the airplanes. They are either engineers or
experimeneters (or maybe a little of both).
2. Builders. That's us. we build the airplanes. The thing that
separates us builders from the 'assembers' (below) is that we have to do
some fabrication from raw materials, but usually according to plans
provided by Designers.
3. Assemblers. These are 'Tab-A-Into-Slot-B' people. I suppose some
homebuilts can be merely assembled, but our RVs must be 'Built'.
I know my limits. I'm a Builder. I've got no business trying to convert
an automotive engine to aviation use. That entails designing a mount,
evaluation stresses, designing fuel flow, induction, and cooling systems,
designing/evaluating propellers, etc. I just don't have the engineering
background for it. And even if I did, the end result would cost me more
than a good used Lycoming.
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
rv-6 sn 23744
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jgageby(at)vines.dsd.litton.com |
I'm starting to put the skins on my RV4 wings (building both concurrently).
It's time to decide whether I should install a heated pitot. I would
appreciated your input on this subject. Is it worth the time, cost, and
weight? I expect to fly some limited IFR (approaches and departures) mainly
here in Southern California. I can't find any requirement for a heated pitot
in the FARs. It is not legal to fly in known icing conditions in these
airplanes. Over the years I've learned that flying in visible moisture with
the outside air temperature at or below the freezing temperature has always
resulted in ice on the airplane that I was piloting. Having ice shut off the
pitot is a minor problem (more an irritation) in comparision to having your
airplane covered with ice. It has not prevented me from exiting the icing
conditions per my pre-planned escape route. So why pitot heat? I would
appreciated hearing about experiences/opinions that indicated the need, or
lack of need, for a pitot with heater.
Thanks....Jack
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rob.acker(at)greatesc.com (Rob Acker) |
| Subject: | RV's in trailers |
Craig Moen wrote:
A1> in the research phase of a kitplane purchase analysis. I have
A1> narrowed the research to an RV-6/8 and a Glastar.
A1> One of the features that keeps the Glastar in the running is
A1> the ability to fold the wings, put it in a trailer, and take
A1> it home to work on and for occasional storage...just like we
A1> do with sailplanes.
A1> I would appreciate any and all comments on options I might not
A1> be aware of in getting a similar capability or alternatives
A1> with the RV.
I have flown both the Glastar and the RV-6 (in trying to decide between
the Glastar or RV-8). The Glastar is, IMHO, a 20 on a scale of 1-10
against any production a/c I can think of having the same utility. I was
*very* impressed at the slow flight capabilities (even slower than an
RV), the folding wings (cheaper storage), and all the different landing
configurations.
I don't think trailerwing ) would be a
consistently viable option. Unlike sailplanes, the fuselage is quite
tall since it has landing gear and a *huge* rudder sticking out of it.
Also, the wings do not detach. So you wind up with a big, tall, heavy
thing to move onto the trailer; instead of three or four lighter, lower
pieces. I bet most Glastars will wind up sharing more hanger space by
folding a wing or two.
I am opting for an RV-6 (shoulda' listened to you rv-listers earlier
). The Glastar made me realize that I prefer SBS seating, a real
baggage compartment, and that I would miss flying upside way too much.
If you do decide on the Glastar, put at least an O-320 on it. With two
200 pounders on board, the IO-240 was hurting at 350 fpm climb (it was a
very hot day). Not a real fair comparison, but the RV (O-360 c/s)
managed 800 fpm under the same conditions. And it was much funner to
fly IMHO .
Good luck,
Rob.
* SLMR 2.1a * Please hold...A service rep will annoy you shortly!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Walsh <walsh(at)ranger.ENET.dec.com> |
| Subject: | Hello Don Sorensen |
Don,
Take heart! By the time your airplane is done, there will be many engine
alternatives available. This includes a few that are Subaru based. Many
are now under serious development.
Van doesn't take a hard line on auto engines, he just doesn't like people who
slap them together and start selling them to builders. If someone
demonstrates 500 hours of reliability on a suitable auto conversion, I'll bet
Van would be much more enthusiastic. Sadly, very few companies do very much
testing or stay in business very long.
Also, just to make you sick to your stomach, those prices that Van quotes
are OEM discount. Those prices are MUCH less than you would pay if you had
to call Lycoming as an individual. As an example, there is a guy on
Compuserve who is trying to sell an O-360 still in the crate for $25k.
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ammeterj(at)ammeterj.seanet.com (John Ammeter) |
| Subject: | Moisture in Hangar |
This is kind of RV related. Anyway, I'll give it a shot.
I keep my RV-6 in a new (1 1/2 year old) steel 'T' hangar. About 40 people
got together and built five buildings with 80 hangars total. We have
sliding steel doors, sheet steel walls, steel beams, concrete floor. The
buildings were built on from three to ten feet of fill dirt. Now the
problem: whenever we get a significant temperature rise accompanied with
rain (and, believe me, that's typical Seattle weather) everything made of
metal in the hangars, including my RV, literally drips with water. The
floor efferesces (sp?), tools rust, etc. I have sealed the ends of the
doors (where the doors overlap) but air can still come either under or over
the door. I have also covered the walls with sheetrock; did not insulate
it, though.
Now, the question. Can anyone tell me if it will do any good to somehow
seal the bottom of the doors and above them? It would be very difficult and
expensive. I only have a 120 VAC 20 amp circuit available so heating the
hangar is pretty much out of the equation. I do put a small heater inside
the cockpit to protect the instruments.
We, the owners, have considered converting to folding doors. It's likely
that we could achieve close to a 100% seal with that type of door. That
would probably cost in the neighborhood of $2500 to $3000 per hangar. Hate
to spend that kind of money without assurances that the moisture problem
would be cured.
Has anyone else experienced this type of moisture problem? How did you
solve it? DID you solve it?
Like I said, this is KIND of RV related.
Thanks for any help you can give me.
John Ammeter
ammeterj(at)ammeterj.seanet.com
Seattle WA, USA
RV-6 N16JA
Flying 5 years
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ammeterj(at)ammeterj.seanet.com (John Ammeter) |
| Subject: | flush or overlap??? |
I opted to go the flush route. I was afraid that the overlapping skin would
eventually rub on the fuselage sideskins and remove the paint. I have,
however, placed a foam 'gasket' where the canopy rests on the side rails.
Seems to work well. I did have some air leaks in the vicinity of the lower
front seams. I cured that by adding rtv under the canopy front skin and
then closing the canopy. It filled the gap nicely; oh, by the way, if you
do this be sure to place wax paper between the canopy and the rtv.
John Ammeter
ammeterj(at)ammeterj.seanet.com
Seattle WA, USA
RV-6 N16JA
Flying 5 years
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Solana <102131.2407(at)compuserve.com> |
I've had the pitot blocked without visible moisture, on takeoff, and without
pitot heat the need to do an approach without knowing your airspeed is not a
comfortable feeling. At least in that plane I had a stall warning to let me
know if I was too slow. I'm putting a heated pitot in.
Rick Solana, RV-6a
wings almost finished
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV Lighting - Another Idea |
I've seen some newer Mooneys having the set-up you describe. The tail light
was smaller, however.
Rgds,
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DerFlieger(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: flush or overlap??? |
ammeterj.seanet.com!ammeterj(at)matronics.com (John Ammeter) writes:
>
>I opted to go the flush route. I was afraid that the overlapping skin would
>eventually rub on the fuselage sideskins and remove the paint. I have,
>however, placed a foam 'gasket' where the canopy rests on the side rails.
>Seems to work well. I did have some air leaks in the vicinity of the lower
>front seams. I cured that by adding rtv under the canopy front skin and
>then closing the canopy. It filled the gap nicely; oh, by the way, if you
>do this be sure to place wax paper between the canopy and the rtv.
>
>
>John Ammeter
Presume you are talking about tip up canopy sides?? If so...I overlapped
mine about a half inch and like it a lot. When I fitted the canopy frame I
bent it so the overlap skins had about an eigth inch clearance. Then I used
sticky back felt (from the hobby store) on the overlap to guarantee a
"soft-rub" on the fuselage skins. Hasn't scratched yet!..You will have to
adopt new canopy side skins, though, as those Van provides are not big
enough.
Jim Stugart RV6/6A, Austin, TX.
DerFlieger(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dsorensn(at)pacificrim.net |
| Subject: | Re: Engines, Engines, Engines.. Thanks for the input! |
Thanks for the perspective on this issue. It would seem that the current
consensious is that traditional A/C engines are the prefered path, and converted
auto engines are to be watched while holding a heathy chunk of Mississippi in
one hand. Someone pointed out that for a kit to be started in the near future,
by completion there would likely be an increased number of alternatives, and
indeed this does make sense. The free interpize systems just loves a profit
opportunity such as this.
I have looked in Trade-A-Plane for used a/c engines, but your most likely to
find either someone peddling parts or trolling for an opportunity to capitalize
on an unsuspecting owner of said item. I suspect that the instant the rag hits
the news stand five thousand builders are reading the engines for sale column.
Is is very common for kit builders to assemble and rebuild their own engines.
They are rather simple machines, as has been pointed out clearly. It would seem
that you'd be into a mode of by a crank here, half a block there, two cyclenders
there ...... Any comments or experience?
Someone mentioned resale value, both airplanes and engines. Now, I understand
that it's not pratical to begin a project like this with the intent of resale,
but at some point in the future (if the engine doesn't fail and drop you on your
ear in down town Metropolis ) one is going to be interested in selling
out, trading or .... something. How is the reintroduction of production GA
aircraft going to effect this home built market? Are values going to drop
throught floor when Cessna is out selling new 172's for 30, 40 or 50 K$? It
would seem likely that they will price their new products just above the
existing used fleet. It's an awfull old GA fleet out there, every new plane is
going to retire an old one, and with each turn old plane values will fall. GA
airplane values have enjoyed apreciation for years, but is that about to end?
Could the kit plane business be at the top of the a ... hammer head about to
take the tail slide into a dive?
Please understand I'm not trying to be antagonistic here, I'm only only asking
the hard questions up front. I have a sail boat, 33 foot (about the same value
as a Lycoming equiped RV6), and I clearly understand (at least for sailing) that
ownership can't be justified on financial terms alone. I also know that from my
point in the financial world the ownership costs of a 30 K$ toy slowly wares
you down over the years. Pretty soon supporting the ownership costs take the
fun out :-(
Thanks again for the ideas and thoughts, it's nice to have some folks to ask
questions of.
Don
What's going to happen to this whole
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Roger Boulanger <rboulang(at)dallas.net> |
I've had experience with pitot ice without ice forming on the airframe. This
was in VFR conditions but at a temperature of about 30F.
I have put in heated pitot and the added weith is negligible. Added work,
however, is not!
Project is RV6, about 80% complete.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | amunro(at)amunro.seanet.com (Alex Munro) |
| Subject: | Re: Engines, Engines, Engines.. Thanks for the input! |
How is the reintroduction of production GA
>aircraft going to effect this home built market? Are values going to drop
>throught floor when Cessna is out selling new 172's for 30, 40 or 50 K$? It
>would seem likely that they will price their new products just above the
>existing used fleet.
I think I read that a basic C172 will still be $110,000.
I think the Citabria is being built again. A stripped one of those is
$49,000 (I think), and a stripped Maule is about the same.
That being the case, the only way a mere mortal is going to own a plane is
to build it, just like today.
It's an awfull old GA fleet out there, every new plane is
>going to retire an old one, and with each turn old plane values will fall. GA
>airplane values have enjoyed apreciation for years, but is that about to end?
>Could the kit plane business be at the top of the a ... hammer head about to
>take the tail slide into a dive?
Good question. Once new planes become widely available, the price of the
older ones should drop. The purchase price of some planes is already less
than an engine overhaul.
Pretty soon supporting the ownership costs take the
>fun out :-(
>
>Thanks again for the ideas and thoughts, it's nice to have some folks to ask
>questions of.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
If you plan to fly IFR it seems to me the $150 or so for a heated pitot
& mast is cheap insurance. I wouldn't want to fly with a load of ice on
the wings in any case, but add to that an unreliable airspeed
indication? No thanks.
I installed a heated pitot I got from Aircraft Spruce for $123. Paid
$20 or something for a steel mast that a local builder welded up. I did
spend some extra hours on the installation, don't remember how many
though. Looks nice now, hope it works out well.
Randall Henderson
>
> I'm starting to put the skins on my RV4 wings (building both concurrently).
> It's time to decide whether I should install a heated pitot. I would
> appreciated your input on this subject. Is it worth the time, cost, and
> weight? I expect to fly some limited IFR (approaches and departures) mainly
> here in Southern California. I can't find any requirement for a heated pitot
> in the FARs. It is not legal to fly in known icing conditions in these
> airplanes. Over the years I've learned that flying in visible moisture with
> the outside air temperature at or below the freezing temperature has always
> resulted in ice on the airplane that I was piloting. Having ice shut off the
> pitot is a minor problem (more an irritation) in comparision to having your
> airplane covered with ice. It has not prevented me from exiting the icing
> conditions per my pre-planned escape route. So why pitot heat? I would
> appreciated hearing about experiences/opinions that indicated the need, or
> lack of need, for a pitot with heater.
>
> Thanks....Jack
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dahearn(at)attmail.com (Dan Ahearn) |
| Subject: | Moisture in Hangar |
For less than a $100 bucks a standard dehumidifier does a nice job. It
might run all the time but it is likely less than a heater.
Dan
RV-6
23101
----------
From: John Ammeter
Subject: RV-List: Moisture in Hangar
Date: Friday, November 10, 1995 16:23
This is kind of RV related. Anyway, I'll give it a shot.
I keep my RV-6 in a new (1 1/2 year old) steel 'T' hangar. About 40 people
got together and built five buildings with 80 hangars total. We have
sliding steel doors, sheet steel walls, steel beams, concrete floor. The
buildings were built on from three to ten feet of fill dirt. Now the
problem: whenever we get a significant temperature rise accompanied with
rain (and, believe me, that's typical Seattle weather) everything made of
metal in the hangars, including my RV, literally drips with water. The
floor efferesces (sp?), tools rust, etc. I have sealed the ends of the
doors (where the doors overlap) but air can still come either under or over
the door. I have also covered the walls with sheetrock; did not insulate
it, though.
Now, the question. Can anyone tell me if it will do any good to somehow
seal the bottom of the doors and above them? It would be very difficult and
expensive. I only have a 120 VAC 20 amp circuit available so heating the
hangar is pretty much out of the equation. I do put a small heater inside
the cockpit to protect the instruments.
We, the owners, have considered converting to folding doors. It's likely
that we could achieve close to a 100% seal with that type of door. That
would probably cost in the neighborhood of $2500 to $3000 per hangar. Hate
to spend that kind of money without assurances that the moisture problem
would be cured.
Has anyone else experienced this type of moisture problem? How did you
solve it? DID you solve it?
Like I said, this is KIND of RV related.
Thanks for any help you can give me.
John Ammeter
ammeterj(at)ammeterj.seanet.com
Seattle WA, USA
RV-6 N16JA
Flying 5 years
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DSlavens(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Moisture in Hangar |
John,
My experience is that most of the moisture is coming though the non-sealed
concrete floor. This is usually caused by the lack of a vapor barrier
(plastic sheet) when the concrete floor was poured. If this is your problem,
you might try and seal the floor with a epoxy type floor paint.
A roof vent also helps to remove the moisture by increasing the air
circulation in the hanger. Inside the airplane cockpit, I've used a device
called Dry-Z-Air (sp?), it's sold in automotive and RV shops for use in
RVs. It's a plastic device with a basin at the bottom and a vented hopper in
the top that holds a chemical compound that attracts water vapor. The water
drips into the basin and you just empty it as needed. The only downside is
the liquid is corrosive to metal, so I place the device in a tupperware
container to prevent spills. This also allows you to put a lid on it during
times of non-use.
Good Luck,
Dick Slavens Napa, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Baxter <baxter(at)agora.rdrop.com> |
| Subject: | Aircraft vs Auto engines |
Aircraft and auto engine use is different. When was the last time my
Trusty Chevy Blazer's 350 cu. in. engine sucked up 12 gallons of fuel per
hour? Not in the twelve years I have been driving it. Maybe four and a
half ... Full power output would turn it into a pile of worthless cast
iron in no time. Auto engine conversions require new cranks, valves and
lost ofther stuff to work right. Even then you don't get a proven,
certified power plant.
Brent Baxter
RV6A Emp
On Fri, 10 Nov 1995, David A. Barnhart wrote:
>
>
> > On Thu, 9 Nov 1995 pacificrim.net!dsorensn(at)matronics.com wrote:
>
> >
> > I know Van's takes a hard line on automotive engines, but I could by a nearly
> > new Subaru Legacy (the whole car), rip the engine out, adapt it for aviation
and
> > sell the car for parts and come out $5000 to %7000 ahead!
> >
> Well, here's the way I figure it. In experimentals, there are three
> types of people:
>
> 1. Designers. They design the airplanes. They are either engineers or
> experimeneters (or maybe a little of both).
> 2. Builders. That's us. we build the airplanes. The thing that
> separates us builders from the 'assembers' (below) is that we have to do
> some fabrication from raw materials, but usually according to plans
> provided by Designers.
> 3. Assemblers. These are 'Tab-A-Into-Slot-B' people. I suppose some
> homebuilts can be merely assembled, but our RVs must be 'Built'.
>
> I know my limits. I'm a Builder. I've got no business trying to convert
> an automotive engine to aviation use. That entails designing a mount,
> evaluation stresses, designing fuel flow, induction, and cooling systems,
> designing/evaluating propellers, etc. I just don't have the engineering
> background for it. And even if I did, the end result would cost me more
> than a good used Lycoming.
>
>
> Best Regards,
> Dave Barnhart
> rv-6 sn 23744
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeremy <jbenedic(at)uofport.edu> |
Note:
For those newer members of the rv-list, you might want to check out
Van's World Wide Web site (URL is below). For those who have seen it,
things haven't changed much, but plans still exist for improvements:
1. A counter has been added at the bottom. It only works occasionally,
but recorded about 1000 hits the past month that it has been in
operation.
2. A link has been added to talk to Van's On-line Support. They
recently have decided to try it as a new means of communication.
However, currently, it is to be used only for technical support and
orders. They check it a couple of times a day, so it might be slower
than a phone call, but it doesn't incur those long distance charges.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
| name://Jeremy Benedict | PP-ASEL (1994) R/E: TD |
| email://jbenedic(at)uofport.edu | Logged:C-150,RV-4,-6,-6A,-6B,-6T|
| http://www.uofport.edu/~jbenedic | TT: 163.2 hrs TT-RV: 70.2 hrs |
| voice://503.240.1528 | |
|postal://Villa 114/5000 N. Willamette Blvd./Portland OR 97203-5754 |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Van's "WebManager" -- http://www.earthlink.net/~rkhu/vans/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dierks(at)austin.ibm.com |
| Subject: | Re: Moisture in Hangar |
This happens here in Austin several times each year, typically in
Feb. when it has been cold and then we get a south wind pumping
moisture up from the gulf. The entire hangar will be wet inside
due to the cold metal and concrete condensing the moisture from the air.
My Hangar is insulated and the slab has plastic under it and it
still gets wet inside a few days each year in the winter.
As you suggested, sealing all holes to prevent the moist air from
entering should help some. Insulation will help, however if
it is cold for a week or so and everything is cold soaked then
even that will not help much unless you heat the inside.
Heating the inside to keep the contents warmer than the dew point
would also help. However, I have heard that that those keroseen
heaters will actually add moisture to the air (fuel + O2 = heat + water..).
However if you get the contents above the inside dew point it should
solve the problem.
I have electric heat in my house and it tends to dry out the air.
So, some from of electric heat should help a lot.
As suggested, a de-humidifier should help but if you have lots of moisture
leaking in it may not keep up. Also, if the metal is too cold, a
de-humidifier in a large hanger probably will not solve the problem alone.
It was suggested to have vents to vent out the moisture.
I don't think this would help and will probably make it worse.
I close my vent at the top in the winter as that helps keep the heat in
the hangar. Opening the vent will allow the heat to escape and will
just allow more moist outside air to flow in all the other small holes.
So: Seal all air leaks
Insulate
Heat (with electric heat)
Dehumidify (if above fails)
Herman Dierks
mail: dierks(at)austin.ibm.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | AB320FLYER(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Drill bit sharpeners |
With all the drilling thats going on out there, I know there has to be
some very dull bits lying around,and some good solutions for remedying
that particular problem. Sears has a couple of sharpeners in their tool
catalog that I'm considering. If anyone has experience with those or others
I would appreciate the input.
One other item I would like to mention are the acronyms that are floating
around on the list. Being a fairly new participant, it would save me some
head scratching time if they were defined somewhere. It's tough being
naive.
Joel
Awaiting the 8
AB320FLYER(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Ruble <cruble(at)cisco.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Drill bit sharpeners |
>
> With all the drilling thats going on out there, I know there has to be
> some very dull bits lying around,and some good solutions for remedying
> that particular problem. Sears has a couple of sharpeners in their tool
> catalog that I'm considering. If anyone has experience with those or others
> I would appreciate the input.
Unless you are really good at sharpening drill bits you will get a bit
that drills an oversize hole. This is caused by the point of the bit
being ground off center. The long side does all of the cutting and the
short side just goes along for the ride. #30 ( bits are cheep and
Alclad is expensive. Just buy new bits and trash them when they show any
sign of wear.
> One other item I would like to mention are the acronyms that are floating
> around on the list. Being a fairly new participant, it would save me some
> head scratching time if they were defined somewhere. It's tough being
> naive.
>
> Joel
> Awaiting the 8
> AB320FLYER(at)aol.com
>
Do you mean the aircraft acronyms or the net/email type acronyms?
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dierks(at)austin.ibm.com |
| Subject: | Re: Drill bit sharpeners (fwd) |
Chris is right. You can buy a pack of 10 or so bits at a time
for #30 and #40. On pack should do the plane.
BTW (by the way), the drill bits we use are 'split point' bits.
These don't "walk" across the surface when you start to drill a hole.
I don't think you want to mess with sharpening split point drill
bits as I expect yoy will destroy the split point. They are also
quite small.
Herman (Hands stained with Imron paint)
> From root Sun Nov 12 17:39:35 1995
> Errors-To: bounces(at)matronics.com
> Date: Sun, 12 Nov 1995 14:38:32 -0800
> From: Chris Ruble <cisco.com!cruble(at)matronics.com>
> Message-Id: <199511122238.OAA14576(at)yorkie.cisco.com>
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Drill bit sharpeners
> Sender: owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Precedence: junk
> Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>
> >
> > With all the drilling thats going on out there, I know there has to be
> > some very dull bits lying around,and some good solutions for remedying
> > that particular problem. Sears has a couple of sharpeners in their tool
> > catalog that I'm considering. If anyone has experience with those or others
> > I would appreciate the input.
>
> Unless you are really good at sharpening drill bits you will get a bit
> that drills an oversize hole. This is caused by the point of the bit
> being ground off center. The long side does all of the cutting and the
> short side just goes along for the ride. #30 ( bits are cheep and
> Alclad is expensive. Just buy new bits and trash them when they show any
> sign of wear.
>
>
>
> > One other item I would like to mention are the acronyms that are floating
> > around on the list. Being a fairly new participant, it would save me some
> > head scratching time if they were defined somewhere. It's tough being
> > naive.
> >
> > Joel
> > Awaiting the 8
> > AB320FLYER(at)aol.com
> >
>
>
> Do you mean the aircraft acronyms or the net/email type acronyms?
>
>
> Chris
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JERRYWALKER(at)delphi.com |
Rv-list(at)matronics.com,
During my tour of duty at Clark AB Philippines I had quite a
education on moisture. During the "Rainy Season" the humidity always
hovered at 100% plus. Clothing would mildew in closets, paper items
such as books would literally disintegrate. One solutions was to put
a 40-60 watt incandesent light bulb in the closed closet with your
colthes, books and etc.
I would suggest doing something similar with your A/C. Put a
small light in your cockpit area and close the airplane up. The heat
from the light will keep the area dry.
Jerry Walker,
Working on the first fuel tank of my RV-6.
___
* UniQWK v4.02* The Windows Mail Reader
I would rather walk into a prop than go to Pope.
'[1;35;40m-=> Delphi Internet Jet v3.012 - (C) PBE
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DerFlieger(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: STEP ADDITION TO RV6A |
compuserve.com!75274.3426(at)matronics.com (Bruce Oliver) writes:
>
>Jim, I hear you are putting a step on your rv-6a. What have you had to do to
>place that in and will you need some help to rivet the things back?
>
>Bruce Compuserve=75274,3426
>
>
This step addition is in my opinion essential to the 6A unless you are a
track person or don't plan on your mother in law for a passenger. However, I
think MY mother in law could jump up on to the wing! Drilling out the
baggage floor panels and the two side panels only took about 10 minutes and I
was ready to work. As seems to be the usual situation with Van's add-on
kits, the documentation must have been written by someone who hasn't looked
at the airplane. At $80 per step I think he should tell you how it REALLY
installs. Talking to John at Vans, he basically told me what I already
knew...that I would have to mess with it, ..and fix any problems which
resulted.
1. If you drill the side skin such that the tube rests flush on the F-623 web
as he says on the WD657 Installation sketch, you cannot get the plate to lay
flat against the skin. Moving it up the necesssary .3 inch, will leave you
with a big hole in the fuselage below the tube. By then you will also have
cut the flanges of F-623 down to the web which is not necessary and weakens
your airframe. Then...
2. Moving it up the .3 inch fixes the plate fit-up problem, but even so, the
tube rests on the bottom of the fuselage skin where it contacts the nylon
receiver. Easy enough fix to shave the receiver bottom to the radius of the
tube, but he doesn't tell you that, so you are working in the dark until you
see the problem.
3. Don't drill the hole pattern he shows for the side plate, until you have
fitted it and can see where they REALLY should be.
I experienced the same incomplete and somewhat misleading documentation with
the add-on electric flaps and electric trim. BUILDER BEWARE!
And yes its an inside/outside job to hard rivet the step, so I'll be calling
on you!
Jim Stugart
DerFlieger(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Vacation Discoveries ? |
Greetings,
We would love to see what some of you RV drivers are up to. The morning of
November 19th my wife, daughter, and myself will be starting out on a two
week vacation that will take us from Dallas, Texas via I-30 through Nashville
to Cleveland, Ohio and in the end my childhood home in the South Western
part of Pennsylvania. Being transplanted Yankees of 16 years now it is common
for us to load up the car and head North every couple of years to discover
what we are missing. <:) The past few years have been stable career wise
and vacation time has been earned. It only seems natural to seek out other RV
builders along the way to compare notes. My
wife and I are assembling the ribs to the rear spar of the horizontal
stabilizer. It has been a real learning experience and may be good to leave
the project behind with Terry the house sitter for a short while to search
out truth from some of you more progressive types out there. So, if there
are any of you that are of a sharing spirit, leave me a message at
Kev711(at)aol.com. Other than sleep stops, we will be spending time in Cleveland
(Oh.), Pittsburgh (Pa.), and Tucaloosa (Al.) Also, I am happy to report that
our little group is all house broken and promise to not stay too long.
Happy Thanksgiving / Building!
Kevin & Trudy Williams
RV-6A #24438 EMP
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WStucklen(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: IFR Question |
> Can one equip one's RV for IFR, then use the RV to become instrument
> rated? Yes, but what sort of IFR certifications are necessary for
> homebuilts?
>
Dick Steffens:
I got my IFR rating in my RV. I made sure that the plane was able to be
used IFR before I got the airworthyness certificate. I was told at that time
that I needed TSO'ed equipment to fly IFR, so that's wat I put in. I do have
a non-IFR-certified GPS in the panel (IImorrow Flybuddy) and use it as a
secondary (non-primary) instrument. I about 100 hours of actual in it now.
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
wstucklen(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | david_fried(at)smtpgwy.dehavilland.ca |
| Subject: | Aircraft Drag, Nav Lights & Baggage pods |
A few of the recent posts have involved the drag penalties resulting from
the addition of such things as baggage pods and navigation lights.
Calculating the drag is not too difficult and the resulting numbers are
quite small. Here is some food for thought.
Dynamic pressure is symbolized by "q". This is the pressure resulting from
motion through the air. It is felt at areas of a body that bring the
relative speed between air and body to zero. This area is known as
stagnation and is found along flying surface, air inlet and gear leg
leading edges. There are also stagnation areas at the forward edge of the
canopy, spinner, wheel pants and the boundary layer diverter (just above
the carb inlet).
Air density on a standard day at sea level rho = 0.002377 lb/ft^3
Factor to convert miles/hour to feet/second Vfps = Vmph * 1.467
q (lb/ft^2) = 0.5 * rho * Vfps^2
The profile drag coefficient (CDp) is based on the frontal area of
streamline bodies. For convenience, D divided by q, "D/q" is used to
calculate the area of an equivalent flat plate with a Cd of 1.0.
Increments to aircraft drag are noted as delta D/q with units of
square feet.
CDp = D /(q * S front)
2 baggage pylons S front = 2.0 ft^2 (total)
Cd = 0.05
q = 102.3 lb/ft^2 (200 mph)
D = 10.2 lb deltaD/q = 0.1 ft^2
2 wing tip lights S front = 0.1 ft^2 (total)
Cd = 0.1
q = 102.3 lb/ft^2 (200 mph)
D = 1.0 lb deltaD/q = 0.01 ft^2
An article in the April 1995 issue of Sport Aviation gives drag data for the
RV-6a. The data was set up to compare with another type of aircraft at a
reduced weight. The result when corrected to 1600 pounds gives the following
drag coefficient based on wing area.
CD = .02026 + .08825 * CL^2
CL = Weight /(q * S wing) Weight = 1600 lb S wing = 110 ft^2
= 0.142
CD = 0.02204
D = CD * q * S wing q = 102.3 lb/ft^2 (200 mph)
= 248.1 lb
D/q = 2.42 ft^2
Looking at it from another direction, a 160/CS powered -6 will max out at
sealevel at something like 200 mph.
Thrust horsepower = BHP * Prop efficiency
Prop efficiency nP is approximately 0.8 to .85
Power = Thrust(lb) * V(fps) / 550
Solving for Thrust (Drag) at 200 mph gives:
Drag = BHP * nP * 550 / (200 * 1.467) nP = 0.83
= 248.9 lb
For propeller driven aircraft where power output is independent of speed
(constant speed props) there is a simple relationship between deltaD/q and
the resulting deltaV. It works best if the drag increments are not too large.
Fixed pitch props probably have similar results under the same condition.
deltaV = (deltaD/q / D/q) * V / 3 D/q = 2.42 ft^2 V = 200 mph
= 2.8 mph For two baggage pods
= 0.3 mph For a tip light set
David Fried
DF-6 C____
dfried(at)dehavilland.ca
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: Engines, Engines, Engines.. Thanks for the input! |
> How is the reintroduction of production GA
> aircraft going to effect this home built market? Are values going
> to drop throught floor when Cessna is out selling new 172's for 30,
> 40 or 50 K$? It would seem likely that they will price their new
> products just above the existing used fleet.
HA HA HA HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!
That's a good one!
Randall Henderson
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: IFR Question |
> I got my IFR rating in my RV.
That's so cool. I've heard a lot of talk pro and con about IFR in RVs,
personally I want to have the capability and plan to equip my RV for
it, but I've never heard of anyone who's gotten their rating in one.
Must've been fun! I for one would like to hear more about how that
went. I'll bet it would make for a good article in the RVator too.
> I made sure that the plane was able to be
> used IFR before I got the airworthyness certificate. I was told at that
> time that I needed TSO'ed equipment to fly IFR, so that's wat I put in.
It is my understanding that you only need TSO'd nav equipment if you're
going to fly under part 135 (which we can't do in homebuilts anyway).
If anyone can point me to a reg that says otherwise, please do so. I've
heard of FAA inspectors telling people that to fly IFR even part 91 the
equipment must be TSO'd, with the exception of GPS. Well, it wouldn't
be the first time that FAA employees have misinterpreted or misquoted
the regs.
(Cal B. -- comments on this?)
Randall Henderson
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Elon Ormsby" <Elon.Ormsby(at)quickmail.llnl.gov> |
REGARDING Auto Engine
Auto Engine b.s. - < delete OK >
I see a lot of shock value when people compare new prices for certified a/c
engines but in reality they are an very good value when compared to an
EQUIVALENT auto engine. The key is EQUIVALENT - by the time you bring the
auto engine up to the safety/strength standards of the certified engine your
cost will be the same or more! A lot of the swill you read about "cheap"
auto conversions totally disregards the aircraft duty cycle and its effect on
durability!
If you are unmarried, have no kids, no assets, live in an apartment, and your
parents are the beneficiaries of your life insurance - then flying a
"junk-yard dog" may make sense to you. Maybe as much sense as the Frenchman
(and his girlfriend) flying to Osh in their RANS. Read the article in
November Sport Aviation and ask yourself if that flight arrangement appealed
to you. Hey, different "strokes for different folks is OK stuff". However,
if you have a different slant on longevity you consider or accept risk by
constantly staking the odds in your favor. Some folks just like a bigger
stack!
I just finished building a small block 383 Chev for my car and the cost was
not even 1/3 of LOW figure I have quoted below. However, remember it is a
ONE AXIS vehicle. You don't worry about that THIRD (DOWN!!) axis in a car.
But if you fly - you are probably a 3D kinda guy.
To do a fair comparison convert the auto engine with the same horsepower and
DURABILITY as the Lyc. You could build that engine two ways - the low and high
costs are listed below. These numbers are accurate costs today. Low cost is
with materials better than stock and "may" be acceptable to some. The high
costs are for premium parts and materials and would be the equal of Lyc
dependability. Note, for some items I'm not sure of the price(?) but it is
in the ballpark. Add it all up and the real auto engine is MORE than your new
Lyc! Now ask yourself why do it then? Simple - it could be a better engine.
(More on that later)
A/C Conversion costs for Chev, small block , V-8:
$ $
Crank (Premium Forged Steel) 950 1,400
Rods (Bowtie or Carrillo) 850 1,200
Pistons & rings 245 650
Ignition (Dual,electronic & MAG) 450 3,000?
Aluminum Heads & (Roller Rockers) 1,200 2,200
Carb or Electronic Injection 750 3,000?
Cam/lifters (roller) 1,000 1,000
Block (used iron/new aluminum) 125 4,000
Block (machining/blueprinting) 470 1,070
Prop Reduction Unit 1,450? 3,200?
Miscellaneous, bearings,
pump, gaskets etc. 450 450
Assembly 250 650
Total $8,190 $21,820
Don't forget the Lyc has liability insurance and certification costs added to
it and those costs are NOT INCLUDED in the above!
Just talked to George Morse (at Prowler) who makes an excellent GEAR Driven
prop reduction unit (PRU). He will only sell a complete engine and PRU
assembly and the Current price is $31,000. The engine is essentially a 383
small block Chevy but with aluminum everything.
So if you actually compare an equivalent(in durability) auto engine with the
certified aircraft engine and considering the antiquated (low volume) Lycoming
production - the $20,000 certified a/c engine is a very good price and most
likely a better deal!
Elon
ormsby1(at)llnl.gov
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Wentz <Don_Wentz(at)ccm2.hf.intel.com> |
| Subject: | Another RV takes to the air |
Dateline Saturday,, Scappoose OR Airport (1S4): Portland RVator Dennis
Jackson's 10 year RV-4 project achieved it's first flight, with Mike
Seager at the controls. After an abort on the first takeoff roll due to
rough engine, more running-up cleared things and the flight was
uneventful, with Dennis watching from the back seat of Kefton Black's
RV-4. After the initial flight Dennis took some successful turns around
the patch himself.
This is a pretty much stock RV-4, O-320 160hp Fuel Injected. He had an
IVO Prop on it, but after much FUD (Fear Uncertainty and Doubt) was
instilled in him at the Ptlnd RVator meeting last Thursday night, Dennis
decided to take the prop off and inspect it carefully after the flying
was done. Sure enough, it is already 'working' and creating dust where
ever it touches anything, so when I visited him Sunday he was installing
a Warnke prop that he bought that morning.
Congratulations Dennis!
Don 'The Duck' Wentz, N790DW, 180HP RV-6, #20369
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BHamlin1(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Engines, Engines, Engines.. Thanks for the input! |
A new C-172 is going to be priced at a minimum of $100K, probably more like
$130K or $140K for a moderately well-equipped one.
(New Piper Warriors are priced in this range)
Neither used plane prices or new engine prices are going to change much, if
at all...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Ruble <cruble(at)cisco.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Engines, Engines, Engines.. Thanks for the input! |
>
> > How is the reintroduction of production GA
> > aircraft going to effect this home built market? Are values going
> > to drop throught floor when Cessna is out selling new 172's for 30,
> > 40 or 50 K$? It would seem likely that they will price their new
> > products just above the existing used fleet.
>
> HA HA HA HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!
>
> That's a good one!
>
> Randall Henderson
> RV-6
>
My guess is somewhere around $120K for a well equiped 172.
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Roger Boulanger <rboulang(at)dallas.net> |
| Subject: | Where do I get 360 Degree Tailwheel for RV6? |
I am currently building an RV6 (about 80% complete) and would like to
replace the tailwheel bracket that comes in the kit with one that swings 360
degrees.
I have seen this done on some RV6's and would like to acquire such a
tailwheel assembly.
Also, could you also advise what modifications are required to the stock
spring steel wheel strut?
Thanks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Roger Boulanger <rboulang(at)dallas.net> |
| Subject: | Sender: owner-rv-list |
I am currently building an RV6 (about 80% complete) and would like to
replace the tailwheel bracket that comes in the kit with one that swings 360
degrees.
I have seen this done on some RV6's and would like to acquire such a
tailwheel assembly. Could you please advise the mfr, model number, and a
mail order distributor?
Also, could you also advise what modifications are required to the stock
spring steel wheel strut?
Thanks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dierks(at)austin.ibm.com |
| Subject: | Re: tail wheel mod |
Van's aircraft sells the full swivel tailwheel.
He also sells the modified spring. See the options catalog.
If you already have your spring, you can have a local machinest
to cut off the 90 degree bend and machine down the end of the
spring to fit into the Aviation Products tailwheel.
Jim Stugart (on this list) had this done so could provide more details.
It may be easier to buy it from Van's. However, it you have your hole
drilled already, that may be a problem so you may want to modify
your spring that fits your mount bracket.
Herman
> From root Mon Nov 13 21:36:10 1995
> Errors-To: bounces(at)matronics.com
> Message-Id: <9511140244.AA23163@dns>
> X-Sender: rboulang(at)dallas.net
> X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
> Mime-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 21:18:58 -0600
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> From: Roger Boulanger <dallas.net!rboulang(at)matronics.com>
> Subject: RV-List: Sender: owner-rv-list
> Precedence: junk
> Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>
> I am currently building an RV6 (about 80% complete) and would like to
> replace the tailwheel bracket that comes in the kit with one that swings 360
> degrees.
>
> I have seen this done on some RV6's and would like to acquire such a
> tailwheel assembly. Could you please advise the mfr, model number, and a
> mail order distributor?
>
> Also, could you also advise what modifications are required to the stock
> spring steel wheel strut?
>
> Thanks
>
AIX Network Performance Measurement/Analysis
mail: dierks(at)austin.ibm.com VM: DIERKS at AUSVM6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jmpcrftr(at)teleport.com (Michael McGee) |
| Subject: | Electric Dremel vs air powered die grinder |
I was out shopping for tools the other day and was seeing some comparable
prices between the electric Dremel tool and die grinders that are powered by
compressed air ($80 +/-). I am now wondering if there is also a comparable
difference in the working power between these two. In other words will the
electric unit be able to do the job or will the air powered one cut circles
around it? And because you asked, the compressor I'm looking at is a
Campbell-Hausfeld unit, belt drive, 6 hp, 30 gal, that claims 9.1 cfm at 90
psi ($379 @ Home Depot in Portland, OR).
Also while I was at it I found a Jet drill press that would get down to 240
rpm, 17" floor model, for $359 after the rebate at Western Tool Supply. I
have not found a better price for this caliber of drill press. The 14" was
$299-no rebate (the bench model was only $10 cheaper). I know this is
probably overkill but I really get tired of cheapo tools.
If anyone has seen better prices on stuff like this please post them (and of
course what area of the country you're in :{)
Mike yes-the-plans-are-still-in-the-box McGee
Vancouver, WA
Mike McGee & Jackie Stiles jmpcrftr(at)teleport.com
RV-6 ..sn 23530.. (in the "plans" still) .. shop almost ready ...
SHOP: ++++++++-- (It's almost ready, we have jigs)
TAIL: ----------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dierks(at)austin.ibm.com |
| Subject: | 5 point harness problems (fwd) |
Did Van's get this resolved for you?
It sounds like you need a different male half of the lap belt
that will accept the crotch strap.
I use a 5-point harnes in my Pitts and would like one in my RV-4.
I bought Van's seat/shoulder harnes when all he offered was the
4-point unit. I saw in the newletter he now has the 5-point version.
I thought about just getting the crotch strap from him but it
sounds like you may need a different seat belt as well.
I don't know where to mount it on a -6. For the -4, I would probably
mount it to one of the spar carry thru bolts. It may mean getting
the next size longer bolt.
Herman
> From root Wed Nov 8 16:45:58 1995
> Errors-To: bounces(at)matronics.com
> Date: Wed, 8 Nov 1995 12:54:41 -0500
> From: smtpgwy.dehavilland.ca!david_fried(at)matronics.com
> Encoding: 38 Text
> Message-Id: <9510088158.AA815864349(at)smtpgwy.dehavilland.ca>
> To: RV-LIST(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: 5 point harness problems
>
>
> I am having some difficulty with the seat harness that I ordered from
> Van's, for my -6. I have contacted Van's for help and am repeating
> the letter here for the rest of the list. In addition to the solution
> for the direct problem, I could use some advice on attaching the
> fifth belt to the aircraft. Here are the details.
>
>
> Date of Manufacture: A0395
> Model: AM-SAFE 9600-3
> Lap Belt (both sides): 503086-405-2855
> Metal plate: 500535
> Latch Device: 500083
> Centre Strap (anti submarine): 503086-217-2855
>
>
> The lap belt closure is made of two metal parts, one on each side of
> the belt. A metal plate fits into a latch device to secure the belt.
> The shoulder straps have metal end fittings that slip over the plate
> before it is inserted into the latch device. The metal plate is sized
> for two of these fittings forming a four point harness.
>
> I have the fifth strap which is used to prevent the lap belt from
> riding up on the pelvis in case of accident. This strap also has a
> metal end fitting that slips over the plate. The metal plate described
> earlier is not long enough to hold the end fittings of three belts.
>
> There is a bar attached to this plate that provides friction and
> allows the belt to be adjusted. This bar is held in with split pins
> which when removed, will allow the plate to be removed from the belt.
> If there is another part number for the plate to allow for three belts
> my problem is solved.
>
> Has anybody else experienced a similar problem?
>
> David Fried
> DF-6 C-____
> dfried(at)dehavilland.ca
>
>
Herman Dierks,
mail: dierks(at)austin.ibm.com VM: DIERKS at AUSVM6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Terence Gannon" <Terence_Gannon(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Electric Dremel vs air powered die grinder |
Michael -- I'm just back in from the hangar (sp?) after playing with my new
Ingersoll-Rand die grinder. Actually, I'm still working on the shop, like
you folks, and I had to cut up some angle iron to make some shelves. I think
this stuff is about an 3/32" thick, galvanized steel, and the die grinder
equipped with a cut off wheel blasted through the stuff no problem. I've
also owned a Dremel in the dim and distant past, and there is simply no
possibility that I could have used it for the job tonight.
One observation I would make though...I have a Devilbiss compressor that
claims 6.9 CFM at 90 PSI (or thereabouts), and though the die grinder is
supposedly rate at 3.0 CFM, the compressor was only just able to keep up.
But then again, I had marked out all the stock, and was running pretty much
continuously. When I continue the effort, I'll cut some stock, grind it
smooth, used the finished product, then cut some more stock etc. etc. It'll
allow a little more "down time" for the compressor, which I believe is a
little kinder to its innards. I believe my current work is pretty much a
"torture test"...cutting aluminum will be an absolute breeze.
Speaking of the compressor, you might want to try your local Costco...I got
mine for $349 Canadian, which I think these days is about $5 US.
Anyway, thought that you might be interested in my observations.
Recommendation: buy the air die grinder...they're a blast, and the noise and
sparks are absolutely outrageous (that's good...) One more thought, you
might want to forget your spouse's birthday/anniversary before you forget to
wear goggles/hearing protection/heavy gloves while using the die grinder.
The latter is without a doubt *slightly* more lethal than the former.
Have a good night...cheers...
Terry in Calgary
S/N 24414
"Empennage Kit and Finishing Shop"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dsorensn(at)pacificrim.net |
| Subject: | Re: Engines ... OK OK I give ... A/C it is! |
Thanks again!
You've all quite effectively deep-sixed my feers that the GA manufacturers are
about to sink the kit plane industry.
And I just can't wait to hear those five o-clock new reports of auto engine
parts misteriously falling from thin air. Subsequent investigations reveling
that the parts were shed from video taped high flying alien craft that were
thought to be similar in detailed appearance to a Subaru Legacy base upon the
type of parts found....
I feel much better ...
So I'll proceed with some more dumb questions (those of you with grade school
aged children will understand). Neither my wife (who by the way is fairly
interested in this potential adventure) or myself are small people. I'm 6'-2"
and weigh ... well lets say I need to loose a few pounds to get back to 225 lbs
and my wife hasn't told me how much she ways for at least 10 years, but I'd
guess she would need to loose a few to reach the FAA standard of 175 lbs. Thus
gross payload (W & B) become a concern. For example, a Cozy MK4 has a front
seat limit of 400 Lbs, which with a few nice dinners out would be a problem.
Further, I've looked at a few planes with considerably higher payload capacity,
the BD-4 for example. I don't think my wife and I, a change of underware, a
full tank of fuel and an RV6 could fly together. What factors into payload?
The RV's have a high G rating, if one were simply interested in long distance
travel with no acrobatics and long runways could the plane safely carry more
load ... I could take the underware then.
Last question for tonight ... it's a classic and I'm sure eyes will roll. My
questions and observations betray that I'm new to flying and no I don't have a
pilot's license. Is it practical to begin a kit building effort before
achieving this milestone? Is an RV6 an appropriate plane for a low hours flyer?
I'm fairly certain that I will at least get half way through flight training
before committing to a project just to ensure my ability to fly. If I scare the
be-jesus out of myself I just as well save the effort.
Thanks again, hope these questions are not too inappropriate for this news
letter. Just tell me to get lost and I will (my nine yearold knows the command
well).
Don Sorenson
to
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bcos(at)ix.netcom.com (William Costello ) |
| Subject: | Re: Electric Dremel vs air powered die grinder |
I have both the Dremel and a couple of die grinders from Harbor Freight
that have worked well for me. Yes, the die grinder will cut 'circles
around the Dremel'. Actually, it will cut long straight lines through
thicker aluminum MUCH faster.
I think you need both. I just trimmed some of the leading 'edge'
(rounded front) of the right elevator with the Dremel that I wouldn't
have wanted to touch with the die grinder. On the other hand, I
trimmed off the ends of the rudder and horiz stab with the die grinder
that would have taken forever with the Dremel.
If your budget will only allow for one, I would choose the die grinder.
I think mine from Harbor Freight was on special for in the $20 range.
You should be able to get one in the $30 range from them. Don't know
the difference between this and the ones advertized in the $80 range.
Hope this helps.
Bill Costello
RV-6 on emp
Chicago
bcos(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bcos(at)ix.netcom.com (William Costello ) |
| Subject: | Re: Engines ... OK OK I give ... A/C it is! |
Now that you've 'gotten religion' on engines, I would suggest several
hours of lessons before ordering anything. Maybe you won't like it!
But, of course, if you are like the crazy rest of us, you'll love it!
Then you'll decide if you REALLY want it, and if so, go for it!
You'll have to find out from one of the flying RV6's re the gross
weight. Sounds like my wife and I are about 30 pounds under the both
of you. We will use the plane as an inspiration to take off a few!
Want to fly to Alaska, so need some extra undies.
Best of luck!
Bill Costello
RV-6 on emp
Chicago
bcos(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | david_fried(at)smtpgwy.dehavilland.ca |
| Subject: | 5 point harness problems, Van's response |
Herman
Here is Van's response to my note on the belt problem.
>I'm afraid that the prognosis is not good for the belt system we sold you... it
>has turned out that the lap-shoulder arrangement sold in the past by Van's s
>not compatible with the "fifth point" crotch strap.
>If you would like to return it I will gladly credit your account. We have not
>yet determined if the appropriate lap-shoulder arrangement will be handled yet
>so I have no good info for you... sorry.
The offending part is the male half of the latch device. It is a flat plate of
metal with a few cutouts and is heavily plated. I don't know what material it
is, or if it is tempered. If anyone out there knows of a shop that could produce
a part that would satisfy the authorities, I would appreciate the address.
Date of Manufacture: A0395
Model: AM-SAFE 9600-3
Lap Belt (both sides): 503086-405-2855
Metal plate: 500535
Latch Device: 500083
Centre Strap (anti submarine): 503086-217-2855
David Fried
DF-6 C-____
dfried(at)dehavilland.ca
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: RV-List: 5 point harness problems (fwd)
Date: 14/11/95 00:56
Did Van's get this resolved for you?
It sounds like you need a different male half of the lap belt that will accept
the crotch strap.
I use a 5-point harness in my Pitts and would like one in my RV-4. I bought
Van's seat/shoulder harness when all he offered was the
4-point unit. I saw in the newletter he now has the 5-point version. I thought
about just getting the crotch strap from him but it
sounds like you may need a different seat belt as well.
I don't know where to mount it on a -6. For the -4, I would probably mount it
to one of the spar carry thru bolts. It may mean getting the next size longer
bolt.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | B F Gibbons <bfgibbons(at)intellinet.com> |
I will make sure I get the name right before I deliver mail!
I will make sure I get the name right before I deliver mail!
I will make sure I get the name right before I deliver mail!
I will make sure I get the name right before I deliver mail!
I will make sure I get the name right before I deliver mail!
I will make sure I get the name right before I deliver mail!
I will make sure I get the name right before I deliver mail!
etc., etc., etc....
Sorry DON.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | B F Gibbons <bfgibbons(at)intellinet.com> |
| Subject: | Build RV and learn to fly? |
Dave,
You ask,=20
"Is it practical to begin a kit building effort before achieving this =
milestone? Is an RV6 an appropriate plane for a low hours flyer? "
Yes and who knows? If you build like I do, you can start on your RV and =
have it finished just about the time you're too old to pass your 3rd =
class physical. Really, I think if you're in love with flying like most =
of us are it would be great to be building an airplane while getting =
your private. How you'll find the time will be your problem. It will =
most likely take about a year to get your private and will take at least =
a couple to build the RV, so what's the worry?
I've only got a total of about 30 minutes in an RV so I can't really say =
whether or not it is appropriate for a low time pilot. Like most things =
I would imagine it's dependent on the pilot. Take heart, my business =
partner got his private, instrument, and multi- in a 24 month period. =
Two years ago he didn't know a wing from a football, now with 300 hours =
he flies an F33 regularly and a C310 on occasion. No doubt he could be =
flying an RV-6 if I could finish mine.
If you do decide to build and learn to fly, you'll undertake two of the =
three most exciting and rewarding things you can do in life. Life's =
short, ENJOY!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Plains Electric EMS <pla_ems(at)nmia.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Where do I get 360 Degree Tailwheel for RV6? |
buy a straight tail spring from Van's (he has them specifically for
full swivel tail wheels); buy a full swivel tail wheel from:
Aviation Products Inc.
114 Bryant
Ojai, CA 93023
They are about $180. You may as well get a couple of feet of chain
from Van's too while your at it. Good luck, they work real well.
Dan Boudro
RV-4 #3933
On Mon, 13 Nov 1995, Roger Boulanger wrote:
> I am currently building an RV6 (about 80% complete) and would like to
> replace the tailwheel bracket that comes in the kit with one that swings 360
> degrees.
>
> I have seen this done on some RV6's and would like to acquire such a
> tailwheel assembly.
>
> Also, could you also advise what modifications are required to the stock
> spring steel wheel strut?
>
> Thanks
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Plains Electric EMS <pla_ems(at)nmia.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Electric Dremel vs air powered die grinder |
Sounds like your going about things the right way to me! Save your money
on that dremel and invest it in a die grinder for that 6hp compressor; it
will handle one just fine and you'll be much happier. BTW.. I bought a
cheap cutoff tool from harbor freight and I use it as much as any other
tool; especially for cutting sheet AL, I hardly ever use av snips anymore.
I also bought a hand belt sander from them (the good one); while not
essential it makes life much easier; I debur a 6' cut in sheet AL in
about 10 sec.
Dan Boudro
RV-4 #3933
On Mon, 13 Nov 1995, Michael McGee wrote:
> I was out shopping for tools the other day and was seeing some comparable
> prices between the electric Dremel tool and die grinders that are powered by
> compressed air ($80 +/-). I am now wondering if there is also a comparable
> difference in the working power between these two. In other words will the
> electric unit be able to do the job or will the air powered one cut circles
> around it? And because you asked, the compressor I'm looking at is a
> Campbell-Hausfeld unit, belt drive, 6 hp, 30 gal, that claims 9.1 cfm at 90
> psi ($379 @ Home Depot in Portland, OR).
>
> Also while I was at it I found a Jet drill press that would get down to 240
> rpm, 17" floor model, for $359 after the rebate at Western Tool Supply. I
> have not found a better price for this caliber of drill press. The 14" was
> $299-no rebate (the bench model was only $10 cheaper). I know this is
> probably overkill but I really get tired of cheapo tools.
>
> If anyone has seen better prices on stuff like this please post them (and of
> course what area of the country you're in :{)
>
> Mike yes-the-plans-are-still-in-the-box McGee
> Vancouver, WA
>
> Mike McGee & Jackie Stiles jmpcrftr(at)teleport.com
> RV-6 ..sn 23530.. (in the "plans" still) .. shop almost ready ...
> SHOP: ++++++++-- (It's almost ready, we have jigs)
> TAIL: ----------
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Plains Electric EMS <pla_ems(at)nmia.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 5 point harness problems, Van's response |
I know a machine shop here in Albuquerque that can produce about
anything; they work mainly for the Sandia National Labs. I'm sure they
could help you out. Give me a call if interested.
Dan Boudro
work (505) 889-7241
home (505) 275-3179
On Tue, 14 Nov 1995 smtpgwy.dehavilland.ca!david_fried(at)matronics.com wrote:
> Herman
>
> Here is Van's response to my note on the belt problem.
>
> >I'm afraid that the prognosis is not good for the belt system we sold you...
it
> >has turned out that the lap-shoulder arrangement sold in the past by Van's s
> >not compatible with the "fifth point" crotch strap.
>
> >If you would like to return it I will gladly credit your account. We have not
> >yet determined if the appropriate lap-shoulder arrangement will be handled yet
> >so I have no good info for you... sorry.
>
> The offending part is the male half of the latch device. It is a flat plate of
> metal with a few cutouts and is heavily plated. I don't know what material it
> is, or if it is tempered. If anyone out there knows of a shop that could produce
> a part that would satisfy the authorities, I would appreciate the address.
>
> Date of Manufacture: A0395
> Model: AM-SAFE 9600-3
> Lap Belt (both sides): 503086-405-2855
> Metal plate: 500535
> Latch Device: 500083
> Centre Strap (anti submarine): 503086-217-2855
>
>
> David Fried
> DF-6 C-____
> dfried(at)dehavilland.ca
>
> ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
> Subject: RV-List: 5 point harness problems (fwd)
> Author: dierks(at)austin.ibm.com
> Date: 14/11/95 00:56
>
>
> Did Van's get this resolved for you?
> It sounds like you need a different male half of the lap belt that will accept
> the crotch strap.
>
> I use a 5-point harness in my Pitts and would like one in my RV-4. I bought
> Van's seat/shoulder harness when all he offered was the
> 4-point unit. I saw in the newletter he now has the 5-point version. I thought
> about just getting the crotch strap from him but it
> sounds like you may need a different seat belt as well.
>
>
> I don't know where to mount it on a -6. For the -4, I would probably mount it
> to one of the spar carry thru bolts. It may mean getting the next size longer
> bolt.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dyer(at)edlmail.jsc.nasa.gov (Terry Dyer) |
| Subject: | Re: Build RV and learn to fly? |
>I've only got a total of about 30 minutes in an RV so I can't really say
whether or not it is appropriate for a low time pilot.
>
The Rv's are great airplanes, I soloed Mine with only about 15 hours of
total flight time and 12 of this was in a cherokee and a c-150.
The two problems you are likely to run into are,
1 There are very few instructors that can give instruction
in an rv. The law requires that a flight instructor have
three hours before they can give instruction in that
make of aircraft.
2 I had trouble finding an examiner that would give me a check ride
in an experimental with a (Special) airworthy cirtificate.
Terry Dyer
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Electric Dremel vs air powered die grinder |
I'm buying a compressor next week. I looked at the same one you saw
at Home Depot. Instead I'm getting almost the same thing
from Sam's (like Pace, but owned by same guy as Walmart) in North
Carolina. It's a Sanborn, belt driven, oil type which uses
15 amps at 240 volts; these are the same specs as the Campbell
Hausfeld. Their both made in usa. It was at or near 6hp, but I
stopped paying attention to hp ratings since so many manufacturers
warp this number (I just do the amps and volts thing). BTW,
I just sold my oil-less compressor cuz it was so loud; I hope
this new one is quieter. I'll make another append next week.
Almost forgot, the Sanborn is $299. Sam's also has a 15a, 110v
Coleman compressor for $279. It says Coleman on the outside, but
some of the parts are EXACTLY the same as the Sanborn. The coleman
can also be hooked up 7.5a at 220v. No 110v wiring for the big
Sanborn.
Drill press: I can't remember the rpms, but I think my Delta 17"(?)
floor press goes down to 250. I've had it for 5 years and I like
it. I'm not sure of the price. I'd guess that it's of about
the same quality as the Jet.
I've heard that Jet make's some of the better quality tools for
a place which primarily (strictly?) imports from Taiwan. I don't
own any Jet tools.
My delta drill press is manufactured for delta in taiwan. I had
hoped I was getting usa engineering and quality assurance. I also,
liked the idea of at least the parent company is a usa company.
I really don't know who owns Jet. I suspect you can't go wrong
with Jet or Delta.
Good luck,
Don
PS In my experience, Campbell Hausfeld has excellent customer
service. I hope Sanborn does if I ever need it.
--- snip ---
> And because you asked, the compressor I'm looking at is a
> Campbell-Hausfeld unit, belt drive, 6 hp, 30 gal, that claims 9.1 cfm at 90
> psi ($379 @ Home Depot in Portland, OR).
>
> Also while I was at it I found a Jet drill press that would get down to 240
> rpm, 17" floor model, for $359 after the rebate at Western Tool Supply. I
> have not found a better price for this caliber of drill press.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Don Karl karl@dg-rtp.dg.com (919)248-5915
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jgageby(at)vines.dsd.litton.com |
| Subject: | Electric Dremel vs air powered die gr |
inder
Mike...
I recommend that you buy a variable speed Dremel. It has far more utility
than the die grinder. Get the die grinder when the need come up. On the
drill press....I recommend that you make sure that the work support surface
is perpendicular to the axis of the drill. My cheap drill press is a few
degrees off, causing me to shim the work in order to drill a perpendicular
hole. Good luck....Jack (RV4...getting ready to rivet the skin to the
nose ribs....work both wing concurrently)
-------------
Original Text
>From teleport.com!jmpcrftr(at)matronics.com (Michael McGee), on 11/13/95 7:58
PM:
I was out shopping for tools the other day and was seeing some comparable
prices between the electric Dremel tool and die grinders that are powered by
compressed air ($80 +/-). I am now wondering if there is also a comparable
difference in the working power between these two. In other words will the
electric unit be able to do the job or will the air powered one cut circles
around it? And because you asked, the compressor I'm looking at is a
Campbell-Hausfeld unit, belt drive, 6 hp, 30 gal, that claims 9.1 cfm at 90
psi ($379 @ Home Depot in Portland, OR).
Also while I was at it I found a Jet drill press that would get down to 240
rpm, 17" floor model, for $359 after the rebate at Western Tool Supply. I
have not found a better price for this caliber of drill press. The 14" was
$299-no rebate (the bench model was only $10 cheaper). I know this is
probably overkill but I really get tired of cheapo tools.
If anyone has seen better prices on stuff like this please post them (and of
course what area of the country you're in :{)
Mike yes-the-plans-are-still-in-the-box McGee
Vancouver, WA
Mike McGee & Jackie Stiles jmpcrftr(at)teleport.com
RV-6 ..sn 23530.. (in the "plans" still) .. shop almost ready ...
SHOP: ++++++++-- (It's almost ready, we have jigs)
TAIL: ----------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | AB320FLYER(at)aol.com |
Chris,
I guess I'm referring to the e-mail type acronyms. BTW, what does IMHO
mean?
Joel
>> Do you mean the aircraft acronyms or the net/email type acronyms?
>> Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: Electric Dremel vs air powered die grinder |
> I was out shopping for tools the other day and was seeing some comparable
> prices between the electric Dremel tool and die grinders that are powered by
> compressed air ($80 +/-). I am now wondering if there is also a comparable
> difference in the working power between these two. In other words will the
> electric unit be able to do the job or will the air powered one cut circles
> around it?
I use both a dremel tool and a die grinder. The die grinder is great
for the 2" and 1" scotch-brite abrasive wheels, I doubt you could put
something like that on a dremel tool. I use those a lot and also rotary
files (Boeing Surplus, $2). The dremel tool I use for smaller work;
small sanding disks and drums (1/2" dia), small cutting wheels, and
engraving.
If it were one or the other I'd take the die grinder, but it's nice to
have both.
> And because you asked, the compressor I'm looking at is a
> Campbell-Hausfeld unit, belt drive, 6 hp, 30 gal, that claims 9.1 cfm at 90
> psi ($379 @ Home Depot in Portland, OR).
Sounds good.
> Also while I was at it I found a Jet drill press that would get down to 240
> rpm, 17" floor model, for $359 after the rebate at Western Tool Supply. I
> have not found a better price for this caliber of drill press. The 14" was
> $299-no rebate (the bench model was only $10 cheaper). I know this is
> probably overkill but I really get tired of cheapo tools.
Agreed.
Randall Henderson
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gil(at)rassp.hac.com (Gil Alexander) |
| Subject: | Re: Electric Dremel vs air powered die grinder |
>> I was out shopping for tools the other day and was seeing some comparable
>> prices between the electric Dremel tool and die grinders that are powered by
>> compressed air ($80 +/-). I am now wondering if there is also a comparable
>> difference in the working power between these two. In other words will the
>> electric unit be able to do the job or will the air powered one cut circles
>> around it?
>
>I use both a dremel tool and a die grinder. The die grinder is great
>for the 2" and 1" scotch-brite abrasive wheels, I doubt you could put
>something like that on a dremel tool. I use those a lot and also rotary
>files (Boeing Surplus, $2). The dremel tool I use for smaller work;
>small sanding disks and drums (1/2" dia), small cutting wheels, and
>engraving.
>
>If it were one or the other I'd take the die grinder, but it's nice to
>have both.
I too use both (buy the die grinder first as Randall says!), and reccommend
the following if you get a Dremel:
* Buy the variable speed version, 20,000 + rpm is way too high for the
sanding tools.
* The flex shaft option is very useful, since with a die grinder
available, the Dremel gets used mostly for small, delicate jobs, and the
flex shaft has less 'bulk' than the Dremel unit itself.
A kit, with bits, variable speed, flex shaft and a storage case
runs about $90 - $100 from discount places (try your local discount hobby
store).
.... good luck ... Gil Alexander
gil(at)rassp.hac.com
RV6A, #20701, N64GA (resvd) ... tried Imron on some interior parts
this weekend. Worked great in my $12 Badger
airbrush, but I felt like a dork in my Tyvek
painters suit, safety goggles, rubber
gloves, and HobbyAir breathing unit wielding
a 1 oz. air brush!
... but Safety First!!
>
*** compressor and drill press stuff deleted ***
>
>Randall Henderson
>RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Earl Brabandt" <cwbraban(at)ichips.intel.com> |
Randall writes:
> It is my understanding that you only need TSO'd nav equipment if you're
> going to fly under part 135 (which we can't do in homebuilts anyway).
> If anyone can point me to a reg that says otherwise, please do so. I've
> heard of FAA inspectors telling people that to fly IFR even part 91 the
> equipment must be TSO'd, with the exception of GPS. Well, it wouldn't
> be the first time that FAA employees have misinterpreted or misquoted
> the regs.
>
> (Cal B. -- comments on this?)
Sure. I'd ask the inspector to explain why many other airplanes on
the ramp have IFR approval without TSO equipment. Obviously IFR GPS
receivers, transponders, and ELTs require a TSO, but there are regulations
specifying this. As far as navs, coms, marker beacons, DMEs, audio panels,
ADFs and such? Many IFR airplanes shipped right from the factory with
non-TSO equipment. The popular King KX170B comes to mind. Very few
airplanes had the TSO version, the KX175. You might wish to contact
Terra for assistance. They market a small, lightweight IFR panel
to homebuilders but their stuff is not TSO so they probably have
experience dealing with misguided inspectors.
Yes, part 135 specifies that the equipment must have a TSO. Part 91
omits this requirement.
Cal
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Build RV and learn to fly? |
| From: | "Earl Brabandt" <cwbraban(at)ichips.intel.com> |
Terry writes:
> The two problems you are likely to run into are,
> 1 There are very few instructors that can give instruction
> in an rv. The law requires that a flight instructor have
> three hours before they can give instruction in that
> make of aircraft.
Hmmm...don't remember seeing that one. Terry, can you please cite
the FAR. I assume that it would require three hours in that very
airplane because from a regulatory standpoint, the FAA doesn't
really recognize "make and model" for experimental--amateur built.
They are all considered unique.
As far as I know, the instructor simply cannot supply the aircraft to
the student other than in the case of a few approved exceptions.
Mike Seager is an instructor teaching in one of Van's airplanes
approved by the FAA for instruction. It doesn't even matter if the
flight is not "for hire" because if the instructor "supplies" the
aircraft, a 100 hour inspection is required. The student however
CAN "supply" the airplane. This means that it could be his airplane
or one that he borrowed or rented from a third party. Remember
that a rental is not considered a "commercial operation" from the
standpoint of FARs requiring 100 hour inspections and such which
don't apply to homebuilts anyway of course.
> 2 I had trouble finding an examiner that would give me a check ride
> in an experimental with a (Special) airworthy cirtificate.
Of this, I have no doubt :-(
Cal Brabandt, CFI: Instrument, Single and Multi Airplane
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dierks(at)austin.ibm.com |
| Subject: | die grinder comments |
The die grinders work best with a 3/8 inch air hose as they suck the air.
I first tried mine on 1/4 inch air hose and it did not have the volume.
Second, squirt some oil in it each time you use it.
My die grinder was a second hand unit so I don't have a manual
with it. I don't know what they recommend for oiling it.
Mine does better if it squirt some oil in it every few minuts.
These things turn a lot of RPM's and if they get dry I expect they
will wear out fast.
Herman
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | James Kelley <James.Kelley.0186110(at)nt.com> |
| Subject: | Concurrent Wing Constructio |
Currently waiting on my wing kit and pondering if I should build one at a =
time or both together. Anyone have any reccomendations, pro or con? If =
I do choose to build both, how much distance should I allow between them =
if they are parallel during construction. Also I am planning on storing =
the empanage in the attic. Anyone have any reason why I should not?
James Kelley (RV6A)
Atlanta, GA.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WStucklen(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Build RV and learn to fly? |
>I had trouble finding an examiner that would give me a check ride
> in an experimental with a (Special) airworthy cirtificate.
Terry Dyer:
I had no problem at all getting an examiner for both the instrument and
comercial check rides in my RV. (I used a 172RG for the complex portion of
the commercial).
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
wstucklen(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Elon Ormsby" <Elon.Ormsby(at)quickmail.llnl.gov> |
REGARDING Electro-tools
Since no one has mentioned an alternative I will suggest one.
Black and Decker makes an industrial-strength electric die grinder. It is a
wonderful tool. Capable of extremely light duty and precision stuff to very
heavy duty burr grinding. Since it is 22,000 rpm you do have to watch tool
diameter or read the rpm limit on cutters, etc. Sometimes it doesn't make
sense to watch the lights dim when you fire up that 6 hp compressor (then
stand-by soaking up kw's while it builds pressure) just to do a little cut-off
job. The B&D is quick, clean and cheaper (on KW) but will equal the work of
the air-driven die grinder. However, I have both. If its continuous, heavy
work- you need an air tool. Forget the Dremel, its for hobby work and you
will only use it to engrave the "N" number on your panel!
Elon
Ormsby1(at)llnl.gov
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | russ(at)maui.net (Russ Werner) |
| Subject: | Re: 5 point harness problems |
One option for the anti-sub belts is to look for a version that uses web
loops to go around the lap strap rather than a metal buckle. I believe that
Simpson Saftey Equipment sell such a device. It is often used on race cars.
In most auto racing applications, the anti-sub belt is actually 2 belts that
come together at one buckle (a "V" shape with a loop or buckle at the base
of the "V" and the attach hardware at the ends). For the thing to work
right it is very important to to fasten the belt ends back under the seat,
or beside the seat and back a bit. Otherwise, the belt can't do it's job
very well. With the loop type, you will be able to retro your existing
belt. If it isn't Simpson that sells the loop typt, try Pyrotech in
Minneapolis. You may need to call someone who sells several brands of race
accessories to find that type. Unfortunately, I don't have any catalogs
handy here.
Russ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com (Ross Mickey ) |
| Subject: | Concurrent Wing Constructio |
This question was asked not to long ago and I don't remember all the
replies so you may want to check the archives. My response was:
1) Have them far enough apart so you can work into the end. You need
to be able to squat between the posts. I would place them so the
outboard ends met together in the center( I built mine side by side w/
the tops facing inward )
2) Install the main spar so that the leading edge will be over your
head. I am 6' and the leading edge was at about 6'4". This gave
plenty of room to work on flaps and ailerons. The higher the better.
Not much work needed at the leading edge except light installation.
Ross Mickey
Priming fuse skeleton 6-A
--- Begin Forwarded Message
Subject: RV-List: Concurrent Wing Constructio
Currently waiting on my wing kit and pondering if I should build one at
a =
time or both together. Anyone have any reccomendations, pro or con?
If =
I do choose to build both, how much distance should I allow between
them =
if they are parallel during construction. Also I am planning on storing
=
the empanage in the attic. Anyone have any reason why I should not?
James Kelley (RV6A)
Atlanta, GA.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bcos(at)ix.netcom.com (William Costello ) |
Hi Group!
Doesn't everyone know that flying an airplane is the
SECOND most exciting thing a man can do?
||
||
||
\ /
\/
||
||
||
\ /
\/
Landing it is the MOST exciting!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DerFlieger(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: tail wheel mod |
Herman gave all the needed info for the full swivel tailwheel. I will repeat
a story about mine. The casting on the wheel swivel is aluminum. The
tailwheel spring is steel. After about 100 hours, the bolt holding the
swivel had wallowed out the aluminum. Actually, I had installed 2 bolts from
the outset, and both were loose. I bought some taper pins and a taper bit
and installed them instead of the bolts. I threaded the bottom end of the
taper pins for washers and nuts. They never came loose or deformed the
aluminum after that. Its one of those fixes that, if you do it at the
beginning, you will never (well probably never) have any trouble with.
Trouble, meaning downtime for your aircraft to fix something.
Jim Stugart
DerFlieger(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | NRGS80A(at)prodigy.com (MR DANIEL R URBANSKI) |
-- [ From: Daniel R. Urbanski * EMC.Ver #2.10P ] --
I have fabricatedl the spars and ribs for the HS, and I started to
rivit them together using the hand squeezer (rib 606, 608, 405, to rear
spar). I have the ribs clecoed to the spar, the two surfaces are tight
against each other, everything is tight and flush. My problem is this.
After I squee
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JerryFlyRV(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Build RV and learn to fly? |
>1 There are very few instructors that can give instruction
> in an rv. The law requires that a flight instructor have
> three hours before they can give instruction in that
> make of aircraft.
>
>2 I had trouble finding an examiner that would give me a check ride
> in an experimental with a (Special) airworthy cirtificate.
>Terry Dyer
Terry
I don't remember reading that FAR and I have been instructing since 1976
maybe you could point me in the right direction to find it. Actually there
are a lot of instructors that can and will give instruction in an
experimental aircraft.
I would also suggest contacting EAA as they have a list of instructors who
are current in aircraft such as taildraggers etc., and where they are located
in the country.
Most insurance companies will require a given amount of time in a certain
aircraft to be covered by insurance.
Happy flying
Jerry Springer CFI RV-6 N906GS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dyer(at)edlmail.jsc.nasa.gov (Terry Dyer) |
| Subject: | Re: Build RV and learn to fly? |
>Terry writes:
>
>> The two problems you are likely to run into are,
>> 1 There are very few instructors that can give instruction
>> in an rv. The law requires that a flight instructor have
>> three hours before they can give instruction in that
>> make of aircraft.
>
>Hmmm...don't remember seeing that one. Terry, can you please cite
>the FAR. I assume that it would require three hours in that very
>airplane because from a regulatory standpoint, the FAA doesn't
>really recognize "make and model" for experimental--amateur built.
>They are all considered unique.
>
>As far as I know, the instructor simply cannot supply the aircraft to
>the student other than in the case of a few approved exceptions.
>Mike Seager is an instructor teaching in one of Van's airplanes
>approved by the FAA for instruction. It doesn't even matter if the
>flight is not "for hire" because if the instructor "supplies" the
>aircraft, a 100 hour inspection is required. The student however
>CAN "supply" the airplane. This means that it could be his airplane
>or one that he borrowed or rented from a third party. Remember
>that a rental is not considered a "commercial operation" from the
>standpoint of FARs requiring 100 hour inspections and such which
>don't apply to homebuilts anyway of course.
>
>> 2 I had trouble finding an examiner that would give me a check ride
>> in an experimental with a (Special) airworthy cirtificate.
>
>Of this, I have no doubt :-(
>
>Cal Brabandt, CFI: Instrument, Single and Multi Airplane
>
>
Cal:
This information was quoted from a CFI, however last night I
looked back through part 61 of the FAR and found 61.195
section F that requires an instructor have 5 hours as pilot
in command in make and model for multiengine or helicopter.
Cal I would think you would be familiar with this reg since
you are a CFI.
My advice to someone with a new Rv that has not flown is to
choose your test pilot and CFI carefully you have a large
investment of time and money. There was an article in the
newsletter about a year ago dealing with this topic.
Terry Dyer
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dyer(at)edlmail.jsc.nasa.gov (Terry Dyer) |
| Subject: | Re: Build RV and learn to fly? |
>
>>1 There are very few instructors that can give instruction
>> in an rv. The law requires that a flight instructor have
>> three hours before they can give instruction in that
>> make of aircraft.
>>
>>2 I had trouble finding an examiner that would give me a check ride
>> in an experimental with a (Special) airworthy cirtificate.
>
>Terry
>I don't remember reading that FAR and I have been instructing since 1976
>maybe you could point me in the right direction to find it.
/**************************************************************************
/*
/* The FAR is 61.45 Flight Tests: Required aircraft and equipment
/*
/**************************************************************************
>Most insurance companies will require a given amount of time in a certain
>aircraft to be covered by insurance.
/*************************************************************************
/*
/* My agent at National and Avemco told me they will not cover
/* anyone in an experimental until they have 3 hours time
/* as pilot in command in make and model.
/* Since we are talking insurance they also will not cover a student
/* pilot for solo in an experimental.
/*
/************************************************************************
Terry Dyer
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Plains Electric EMS <pla_ems(at)nmia.com> |
Does anyone have info on what it takes to set up a camara on my RV-4 to
take ground photographs? I'd like to be able to take photos at 1 or 2
thousand feet agl. My 4's in construction and I'd like to at least
look into what would be involved in mounting a camara for this purpose.
Thanks.
Dan Boudro
RV-4 #3933
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mgamble(at)chiba.netxn.com (Michael Gamble) |
| Subject: | Electric Dremel vs air powered die grinder |
I agree whole hardedly. In my youth I carved tobaco pipes. We used die
grinders for the task. I think we bought one die grinder in the four years
we were in business. That die grinder got yomen duty every day. Durring the
same time frame we went through two or three dremel tools. The dremel tools
were only used for light work signing our work, roughing small areas...
One other tip I can add for using die grinders. Put a regulator on the inlet
for the die grinder. Now you have a speed control. Sometimes that 30,000 RPM
is just way to fast. Also we always oiled it once or twice a day. Don't
think much of the automatic ones, greates too much of a mess.
Mick
>One observation I would make though...I have a Devilbiss compressor that
>claims 6.9 CFM at 90 PSI (or thereabouts), and though the die grinder is
>supposedly rate at 3.0 CFM, the compressor was only just able to keep up.
>But then again, I had marked out all the stock, and was running pretty much
>continuously. When I continue the effort, I'll cut some stock, grind it
>smooth, used the finished product, then cut some more stock etc. etc. It'll
>allow a little more "down time" for the compressor, which I believe is a
>little kinder to its innards. I believe my current work is pretty much a
>"torture test"...cutting aluminum will be an absolute breeze.
>
>Speaking of the compressor, you might want to try your local Costco...I got
>mine for $349 Canadian, which I think these days is about $5 US.
>
>Anyway, thought that you might be interested in my observations.
>Recommendation: buy the air die grinder...they're a blast, and the noise and
>sparks are absolutely outrageous (that's good...) One more thought, you
>might want to forget your spouse's birthday/anniversary before you forget to
>wear goggles/hearing protection/heavy gloves while using the die grinder.
>The latter is without a doubt *slightly* more lethal than the former.
>
>Have a good night...cheers...
>
>Terry in Calgary
>S/N 24414
>"Empennage Kit and Finishing Shop"
>
>
_____________________________________________________________
|| Michael C. Gamble Fax: (805) 328-3860 ||
|| Happy Troll Computing Phone: (805) 328-3840 ||
|| 5329 Office Center Court Email: mgamble(at)chiba.netxn.com ||
|| Suite 200 ||
|| Bakersfield, CA 93309 ||
-------------------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RUSS_NICHOLS(at)fire.ca.gov |
>From RUSS_NICHOLS Wed Nov 15 11:39:20 0800 1995 remote from fire.ca.gov
From: RUSS_NICHOLS(at)fire.ca.gov (RUSS NICHOLS)
Subject: Naive question... AC43-13
>As an aside, everyone building an airplane should have a copy of
>AC43-13. Just because were are building homebuilts does not mean we
>can ignore acceptable standards and practices. Wanna know how big the
>wire needs to be for your landing light? wanna know the correct way to
>patch a cracked skin, rib, or spar? Wanna know how to align your
>compass? It's all there in AC43-13.
I've seen references similar to this a number of times. What is the
easiest way to get my hands on AC43-13? I tried to download it from
the internet with no success.
2nd naive question... In fact, this one may be answered in AC43-13.
Is it true that the factory head of a rivet should always be on the
side of the thinner material in the case where you are joining pieces
of different thickness? Van's drawings don't seem to hold to this
rule. The real question is: do I need to go back and "fix" my HS
rear spar. I have the factory head against the HS-409, not against
the spar channel.
One last question... I'm ready to rivet the HS-610s and HS-614s to
the front spar channels. On the holes that have to be dimpled (spar
channel) and countersunk (610 and 614), how important is it to use a
120 degree countersink? I currently own only a 100 degree. Should I
spend the $ to get a 120? Will I use it in other areas?
thanks,
Russ Nichols
russ_nichols(at)fire.ca.gov
(RV-6 HS will look like an HS this weekend, unless I need to "fix" my
rear spar)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gil(at)rassp.hac.com (Gil Alexander) |
>Does anyone have info on what it takes to set up a camara on my RV-4 to
>take ground photographs? I'd like to be able to take photos at 1 or 2
>thousand feet agl. My 4's in construction and I'd like to at least
>look into what would be involved in mounting a camara for this purpose.
>Thanks.
>Dan Boudro
>RV-4 #3933
Dan,
This sounds like a really good use for the aftermarket wing-mounted
baggage pods (see RV-list archives). Just mount one pod, put a glass
window in the side (or bottom, or front ... you don't say which direction
you want to photograph), and use a camera with a motor-wind and a radio
controlled remote release (see ads in any photo magazine).
Presto ... you've just changed the R in RV-4 to R for Recce. No
wiring added, and a completely removeable system with only two nutplates
added to one wing. Videos might be interesting too.
.... good luck ... Gil Alexander, RV6A, #20701 ... cockpit side rails
gil(at)rassp.hac.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | david_fried(at)smtpgwy.dehavilland.ca |
You could roll inverted and shoot through the plexi... :)
Dave
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: RV-List: photography
Date: 15/11/95 15:18
Does anyone have info on what it takes to set up a camara on my RV-4 to
take ground photographs? I'd like to be able to take photos at 1 or 2
thousand feet agl. My 4's in construction and I'd like to at least
look into what would be involved in mounting a camara for this purpose.
Thanks.
Dan Boudro
RV-4 #3933
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jcimino(at)jcimino.microserve.com (Jim Cimino) |
| Subject: | Re: Build RV and learn to fly? |
>Terry writes:
>
>> The two problems you are likely to run into are,
>> 1 There are very few instructors that can give instruction
>> in an rv. The law requires that a flight instructor have
>> three hours before they can give instruction in that
>> make of aircraft.
>
>Hmmm...don't remember seeing that one. Terry, can you please cite
>the FAR. I assume that it would require three hours in that very
>airplane because from a regulatory standpoint, the FAA doesn't
>really recognize "make and model" for experimental--amateur built.
>They are all considered unique.
>
>As far as I know, the instructor simply cannot supply the aircraft to
>the student other than in the case of a few approved exceptions.
>Mike Seager is an instructor teaching in one of Van's airplanes
>approved by the FAA for instruction. It doesn't even matter if the
>flight is not "for hire" because if the instructor "supplies" the
>aircraft, a 100 hour inspection is required. The student however
>CAN "supply" the airplane. This means that it could be his airplane
>or one that he borrowed or rented from a third party. Remember
>that a rental is not considered a "commercial operation" from the
>standpoint of FARs requiring 100 hour inspections and such which
>don't apply to homebuilts anyway of course.
>
>> 2 I had trouble finding an examiner that would give me a check ride
>> in an experimental with a (Special) airworthy cirtificate.
>
>Of this, I have no doubt :-(
>
>Cal Brabandt, CFI: Instrument, Single and Multi Airplane
>
>I don't remember that FAR either. If you are checked out in single-engine
land, you can instruct in almost any single engine aircraft unless it is
high-performance. Then you must have a check-out in that type of aircraft.
All CFI's must have a high-performance check out of course. The reason you
may need a certain number of hours in a specific aircraft is for insurance
reasons only. Of course an instructor would not be wise to give instruction
in any aircraft that they are not well versed in.
Also they may need the tail-wheel check out.
Jim Cimino CFII RV-4 sn 4079 or an RV-8
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jcimino(at)jcimino.microserve.com (Jim Cimino) |
>Hi Group!
>
>
>
>Doesn't everyone know that flying an airplane is the
> SECOND most exciting thing a man can do?
> ||
> ||
> ||
> \ /
> \/
>
> ||
> ||
> ||
> \ /
> \/
>
>Landing it is the MOST exciting!
>
>
>I have found it to be 98% bordom and 2% sheer terror.:)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | NRGS80A(at)prodigy.com (MR DANIEL R URBANSKI) |
-- [ From: Daniel R. Urbanski * EMC.Ver #2.10P ] --
I have fabricatedl the spars and ribs for the HS, and I started to
rivit them together using the hand squeezer (rib 606, 608, 405, to rear
spar). I have the ribs clecoed to the spar, the two surfaces are tight
against each other, everything is tight and flush. My problem is this.
After I squeeze the rivits together a gap appears between the to parts,
where I can see light, perhaps .005". I have drilled out the rivit and
done it a 2nd time,(thinking I may have been a little careless the 1st
time) with the same results. Does anyone have any suggestions as how to
keep the too surfaces tight.
I am also shopping for a rivit gun. I have been told not to use a air
hammer. What is wrong with a air hammer? They take the same .401 shank,
and they have the same type of behive spring.
All replies appreciated.
Daniel rv6a HS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Portouw <72170.1636(at)compuserve.com> |
Dan, Wonderful idea! Do you want to take verticle, or oblique (side and/or
forward) photos? Verticle can be a little boring, unless you use a camera with
a motor drive and crank 'em off so that you get a lot of overlap (40-60% as I
recall), giving you stereo pairs. Verticle has the advantage that the math is
simple to compute approx. photo scale, required altitude for a desired amount of
coverage, etc.
Mount is tougher- will have to defer to someone with more engineering
background. Focus is fixed and exposure could be anticipated in advance, so
from the cockpit, a short, verticle tube to hold the camera by the lens might do
the trick. But, of course you need to be able to close it up or remove it when
its not in use, and ..... Lots to think about. Any body else?
Larry Portouw
RV lurker-- working on reducing a short list of potential building projects.
72170.1636(at)compuserve.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Dan Boudro wrote:
Subject: RV-List: photography
Date: 15/11/95 15:18
Does anyone have info on what it takes to set up a camara on my RV-4 to
take ground photographs? I'd like to be able to take photos at 1 or 2
thousand feet agl. My 4's in construction and I'd like to at least
look into what would be involved in mounting a camara for this purpose.
Thanks.
Dan Boudro
RV-4 #3933
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Roger Boulanger <rboulang(at)dallas.net> |
| Subject: | Re: tail wheel mod |
>Herman gave all the needed info for the full swivel tailwheel. I will repeat
>a story about mine. The casting on the wheel swivel is aluminum. The
>tailwheel spring is steel. After about 100 hours, the bolt holding the
>swivel had wallowed out the aluminum. Actually, I had installed 2 bolts from
>the outset, and both were loose. I bought some taper pins and a taper bit
>and installed them instead of the bolts. I threaded the bottom end of the
>taper pins for washers and nuts. They never came loose or deformed the
>aluminum after that. Its one of those fixes that, if you do it at the
>beginning, you will never (well probably never) have any trouble with.
> Trouble, meaning downtime for your aircraft to fix something.
>
Thanks for the input. I have ordered the tailwheel assembly today.
I would like to know more about your taper bit / taper pin suggestion. Where
do you find this stuff?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "JEFFREY A. HALL" <76476.733(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Flight inst. in RV's |
Okay, everyone has danced around this subject, so here goes for clarification...
An instructor IS NOT required BY LAW to have any hours in make/model EXCEPT for
multi or helicopter, which obviously eliminates the RV line. Virtually ALL
insurance companies will require some time though, varies by companies, and
there are exceptions. I was authorized to give ten hours each to some new owners
of a Beech Sierra, even though I had no time in model. Apparently my complex
time and Beech time was enough for them. ALSO, for a flight test, it should be
pointed out that AT THE DISCRETION OF THE EXAMINER... an aircraft holding other
than a standard or limited airworthiness cert. may be used. So knock yourself
out, get your instruction and flight test in your RV! May have to find the
right instructor and examiner, big deal.
( Heck, bring the bird out here, I'll do it!)
This is an example of "partial information" constituting "misinformation"
Jeff Hall CFIAI, AGI etc. etc. etc.
RV4 2179 (wings)
FT. COLLINS, CO.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | donmack(at)interaccess.com (Don Mack) |
| Subject: | Re: Concurrent Wing Constructio |
>Currently waiting on my wing kit and pondering if I should build one at a =
>time or both together. Anyone have any reccomendations, pro or con?
I am working on the second wing now. If I had enough room, I would have built both
at once. I built as many of the parts for the second wing while working on the
first, i.e. flap, ailerons, bellcrank assembly and rib at sta.73. This has helped
a
great deal, but I still feel like I could of saved more time by doing 2 at once.
>I am planning on storing the empanage in the attic.
>Anyone have any reason why I should not?
If you attached the fiberglass, I would have some concern about melting and
the shape of those parts changing. I have mine stored in the rafters of my garage,
but it has no ceiling drywall which keeps it pretty cool.
don mack
rv-6a
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ammeterj(at)ammeterj.seanet.com (John Ammeter) |
> You could roll inverted and shoot through the plexi... :)
>
> Dave
>
>
>______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________
>Subject: RV-List: photography
>Author: rv-list(at)matronics.com at unix.po
>Date: 15/11/95 15:18
>
>
>Does anyone have info on what it takes to set up a camara on my RV-4 to
>take ground photographs? I'd like to be able to take photos at 1 or 2
>thousand feet agl. My 4's in construction and I'd like to at least
>look into what would be involved in mounting a camara for this purpose.
>Thanks.
>Dan Boudro
>RV-4 #3933
>
>
Actually, that isn't quite as dumb as it sounds. I've taken several
pictures from my RV-6. I use a motor winder and telephoto lens (150MM) on
my 35MM. I rest the camera on my left shoulder and use my left eye to look
through the lens, right hand to hold the camera, left hand to fly the plane,
right eye to see where I'm flying. It sounds more complicated than it is.
Just be very sure that you have cleared the area and only 'focus' or 'aim'
the camera for one to two seconds at a time. If you set it up right you can
roll into a bank steep enough that the wing will not be in the picture.
I've taken pictures of the complex where I work from about 1000' that with
the telephoto look like I'm just 350 feet directly above it. Don't try to
circle the object. Just go in once and take your shots as you make a 180
degree pass. It's too hard to maintain altitude in that steep a bank for
very long (especially with one eye on the camera).
Practice at altitude until you're comfortable with steep bank angles while
you are holding the camera.
Good luck and happy photography!!
John Ammeter
ammeterj(at)ammeterj.seanet.com
Seattle WA, USA
RV-6 N16JA
Flying 5 years
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jperri(at)interserv.com |
Query for the group.. I am using Air Hawk tires on my RV-6 with 32 lb. air
pressure. If I go above that pressure I get a shimmy at take-off and landing
speed. Anyone else having this problem, and what pressure seems to work best? 32
leaves tires slightly flat.
Thanks
JOHN PERRI RV-6 N345JE 350hrs.. CFII
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | david_fried(at)smtpgwy.dehavilland.ca |
I read in the RVator that the wheel pants should have mass added to
the front so that they balance about the wheel axle. This and the
gear leg stiffeners should help to control vibration in the gear legs.
Perhaps the low pressure and the resulting soft sidewalls of your
Air Hawks have been doing the damping for you.
David Fried
DF-6 C-____
dfried(at)dehavilland.ca
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: RV-List: Tires
Date: 16/11/95 08:31
Query for the group.. I am using Air Hawk tires on my RV-6 with 32 lb. air
pressure. If I go above that pressure I get a shimmy at take-off and landing
speed. Anyone else having this problem, and what pressure seems to work best? 32
leaves tires slightly flat.
Thanks
JOHN PERRI RV-6 N345JE 350hrs.. CFII
________________________________________________________________________________
>
>
>Shimmy above 32 lbs pressure?
Ifn tires "not in balance" you'll note a shimmy, in particular on landing,
not so much
on takeoff.
My experience, the little red mark beside the valve stem, and you're
BALANCED.
Except of course, sometimes, it seems the red mark needs to go OPPOSITE the
valve stem. My experience only.
32 lbs pressure is what I run, just gets the sidewalls looking purty good.
M E Soward, N63Tx....560 hrs RV-6A
N63tx(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dierks(at)austin.ibm.com |
| Subject: | Where to find tire stem access hole cover? |
Where can I find the following.
I need a access hole cover for the wheel pants to allow access
to the valve stem to add air to the tires (without removing the wheel pants).
I have seen a clever little door that is spring loaded.
You just push on it and it opens and then you just push it closed.
I think Rutan discovered this and used it on the Vari/long EZ's.
I think these have a round door.
I thought Spruce or someone had these but now I can't find the source.
I don't mean the hatwell latches that are rectangular and have the
seperate little latch you have to hold down to close.
Thanks, Herman
mail: dierks(at)austin.ibm.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6junkie(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Where do I get 360 Degree Tailwheel for RV6? |
call Aviation Products @ 805-646-6042. Price (1992) was $150. Advise Van's
when you order your fuselage kit that you plan to install the full swivel
tail wheel and he'll send the correct tail wheel spring.
Gary Corde
RV-6 N211GC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DerFlieger(at)aol.com |
writes:
>Query for the group.. I am using Air Hawk tires on my RV-6 with 32 lb. air
>pressure. If I go above that pressure I get a shimmy at take-off and landing
>speed. Anyone else having this problem, and what pressure seems to work
best?
>32
>leaves tires slightly flat.
>
>John, you are very lucky to be able to use 32 psi. Most will shimmy at far
lower pressures. 32 is about the max I've heard of without an unacceptable
shimmy. Also, I've found that there seems to be a lot more "skipping about
when landing crosswind " with the higher pressures. Lower pressures will
reduce the shake, but your tires will wear.
Jim Stugart
DerFlieger
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Smith, Hal" <smith1h(at)macsmtpgw.spring-branch.isd.tenet.edu> |
I am just completeing the tail section of my RV-6A. When using my squeezer, I
find I must really hold a tight pressure on the head of the rivet as I
squeeze. This works great. For those that are more difficult to reach and
hold pressure, I use a Cleco clamp to hold it tight.
Do not use a airhammer. It operates at to fast. You need something that is
slower and preferably variable speed. The airhammer will beat the rivet to
death before you can release the triger.
Hal Smith 6A
_______________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rv-list(at)matronics.com on Wed, Nov 15, 1995 8:56 PM |
RFC Header:Received: by macsmtpgw.spring-branch.isd.tenet.edu with SMTP;15 Nov
1995 20:56:40 U
From: prodigy.com!NRGS80A(at)matronics.com (MR DANIEL R URBANSKI)
Subject: RV-List: riviting
-- [ From: Daniel R. Urbanski * EMC.Ver #2.10P ] --
I have fabricatedl the spars and ribs for the HS, and I started to
rivit them together using the hand squeezer (rib 606, 608, 405, to rear
spar). I have the ribs clecoed to the spar, the two surfaces are tight
against each other, everything is tight and flush. My problem is this.
After I squeeze the rivits together a gap appears between the to parts,
where I can see light, perhaps .005". I have drilled out the rivit and
done it a 2nd time,(thinking I may have been a little careless the 1st
time) with the same results. Does anyone have any suggestions as how to
keep the too surfaces tight.
I am also shopping for a rivit gun. I have been told not to use a air
hammer. What is wrong with a air hammer? They take the same .401 shank,
and they have the same type of behive spring.
All replies appreciated.
Daniel rv6a HS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DerFlieger(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Build RV and learn to fly? |
>>
>>>1 There are very few instructors that can give instruction
>>> in an rv. The law requires that a flight instructor have
>>> three hours before they can give instruction in that
>>> make of aircraft.
Thats not true. He also mentioned 61.45 which does not say anything about
it.
>>>2 I had trouble finding an examiner that would give me a check ride
>>> in an experimental with a (Special) airworthy cirtificate.
Check around, they are out there. I set one of my RV6 students up for a
checkride with a local examiner with no problem.
>>Most insurance companies will require a given amount of time in a certain
>>aircraft to be covered by insurance.
>>My agent at National and Avemco told me they will not cover
>/* anyone in an experimental until they have 3 hours time
>/* as pilot in command in make and model.
>/* Since we are talking insurance they also will not cover a student
>/* pilot for solo in an experimental.
>/*
I presume we are all EAA'ers on this net, but I could be wrong. Avemco will
cover you from the first flight if you have used EAA technical counselors and
Flight Advisors. If you are not in the EAA, you will miss a lot of good
stuff. (and a good time too!)
Jim Stugart RV6/A CFI
DerFlieger(at)aol.com >>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DerFlieger(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: tail wheel mod |
(Roger Boulanger) writes:
>
>I would like to know more about your taper bit / taper pin suggestion. Where
>do you find this stuff?
>
Taken from the "Standard Aircraft Handbook", "These pins when properly
installed give the most serviceable splice method for torque tube and rod".
Most mechanical designers/machinists can tell you about taper pins. A
"good" hardware store has the pins and drill bits. I think I used either
3/16 or 1/4 inch pins into the old 3/16 holes after I taper drilled them out.
I drilled in such a manner that the exit hole remains at 3/16 (#12) so that
I could thread the protruding pin for a 10-32 nut.
Then drive the pins in and tighten them down. After a couple of flights I
torqued them down again to take up any movement and they never gave me any
more trouble. Its a natural way to prevent future problems, especially if
you run on rough strips a lot. I think Van should have used them for the
gear leg attach bolts and there would be less gear problems on RV's. But
then he also should have provided some means to adjust the gear leg
alignment.
Jim Stugart
DerFlieger
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JAllen6526(at)aol.com |
I have a good friend who has built 4 RV's and a bunch of parts for other
people. His work is like jewelry and he uses a $30 Sears pneumatic hammer.
I have a real nice rivet gun and can't touch his work. Go figure.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WStucklen(at)aol.com |
>Query for the group.. I am using Air Hawk tires on my RV-6 with 32 lb. air
>pressure. If I go above that pressure I get a shimmy at take-off and landing
>speed. Anyone else having this problem, and what pressure seems to work
best?
>32 leaves tires slightly flat.
>Ifn tires "not in balance" you'll note a shimmy, in particular on landing,
>not so much
>on takeoff.
>My experience, the little red mark beside the valve stem, and you're
>BALANCED.
>Except of course, sometimes, it seems the red mark needs to go OPPOSITE the
>valve stem. My experience only.
>32 lbs pressure is what I run, just gets the sidewalls looking purty good.
>M E Soward, N63Tx....560 hrs RV-6A
It seems that I get excesive wear on the outside corners when I use the
Hawk-Air tires.
I also seem to get a shimmy, but only on landings when I am applying heavy
braking. I've switched to GoodYear tires and the problem has lessened
considerably. Both tire types were 5:00X5 6 ply.....
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
wstucklen(at)aol.com
I
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
Concerning air hammers (and tools in general), I'll repeat what lots of
people have already said on this list:
*** DON'T BUY CHEAP TOOLS! ***
If you try to skimp on tools I guarantee you'll to regret it, and it'll
cost more in the long run. Seems like every cheap tool I've bought just
meant I had to buy another, higher quality one later. Just because an
air hammer LOOKS like a pneumatic rivet gun doesn't mean it OPERATES
like one. To be honest, I don't know the difference and have never
used an air hammer, but I wouldn't want to test one on MY nice shiny
skins.
Randall Henderson
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Elon Ormsby" <Elon.Ormsby(at)quickmail.llnl.gov> |
REGARDING Taper Drilling
Jim Sturgart writes about taper drills:
I'm not sure I understand HIS METHOD so I would like to add some
clarification. To produce a tapered hole you should drill the whole the MINOR
diameter. You then REAM with a tapered reamer to the necessary size. Tapered
reams are usually about 6"-12" inches long with flutes the whole length
(except for the shank). They have a square shank and it is best to use a tap
handle and ream BY HAND to get the finished size. One ream will suffice for
many different hole sizes.
IMPORTANT: Tapered bolts (or pins) have a smooth shank for a purpose! It is
the interface of the bolt shank with the tapered wall that provides the
self-locking effect. Tapered fasteners are SELF HOLDING (just like the taper
drills on your drill press or mill. They will always provide excellent
gripping force - more than any straight shank bolt. If you have a rough wall
surface (as in drilling) you will have lost most of the reason for tapering in
the first place. The smoother the surfaces the better the grip. Carefully
HAND-REAMING will produce the best surface finish. A tapered fastener is
always the better choice if you want a good grip - and if DIS-assembly is NOT
frequent because they are sometimes difficult to remove.
Elon
ormsby1(at)llnl.gov
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Elon Ormsby" <Elon.Ormsby(at)quickmail.llnl.gov> |
REGARDING Taper Drilling
Jim Sturgart writes about taper drills:
I'm not sure I understand HIS METHOD so I would like to add some
clarification. To produce a tapered hole you should drill the hole the MINOR
diameter. You then REAM with a tapered reamer to the necessary size. Tapered
reams are usually about 6"-12" inches long with flutes the whole length
(except for the shank). They have a square shank and it is best to use a tap
handle and ream BY HAND to get the finished size. One ream will suffice for
many different hole sizes.
IMPORTANT: Tapered bolts (or pins) have a smooth shank for a purpose! It is
the interface of the bolt shank with the tapered wall that provides the
self-locking effect. Tapered fasteners are SELF HOLDING (just like the taper
drills on your drill press or mill. They will always provide excellent
gripping force - more than any straight shank bolt. If you have a rough wall
surface (as in drilling) you will have lost most of the reason for tapering in
the first place. The smoother the surfaces the better the grip. Carefully
HAND-REAMING will produce the best surface finish. A tapered fastener is
always the better choice if you want a good grip - and if DIS-assembly is NOT
frequent, because they are sometimes difficult to remove.
Elon
ormsby1(at)llnl.gov
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dierks(at)austin.ibm.com |
Use some C-clamp if you have to.
You need to keep more pressure on the factory head end of the rivet.
It sound like with the had squeezer you are not able to keep pressure
on the factory head end and when you squeeze the rivit is swelling and
pushing the rib up. I have not used a hand squeezer. I use either
a pneumatic squeezer or a 2X rivit gun.
You also have to watch with the rivit gun. You can push too hard on the
bucking bar and have a similar problem. You need to push the rivet gun
firmly against the work.
Air hammers have too long of a stroke.
Herman
>
> -- [ From: Daniel R. Urbanski * EMC.Ver #2.10P ] --
>
> I have fabricatedl the spars and ribs for the HS, and I started to
> rivit them together using the hand squeezer (rib 606, 608, 405, to rear
> spar). I have the ribs clecoed to the spar, the two surfaces are tight
> against each other, everything is tight and flush. My problem is this.
> After I squeeze the rivits together a gap appears between the to parts,
> where I can see light, perhaps .005". I have drilled out the rivit and
> done it a 2nd time,(thinking I may have been a little careless the 1st
> time) with the same results. Does anyone have any suggestions as how to
> keep the too surfaces tight.
> I am also shopping for a rivit gun. I have been told not to use a air
> hammer. What is wrong with a air hammer? They take the same .401 shank,
> and they have the same type of behive spring.
> All replies appreciated.
Herman Dierks, Dept. E54S, AWSD Austin, Texas
mail: dierks(at)austin.ibm.com VM: DIERKS at AUSVM6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jpl(at)showpg.mn.org (Joe Larson) |
| Subject: | Re: Build RV and learn to fly? |
> Terry writes:
>
> Remember
> that a rental is not considered a "commercial operation" from the
> standpoint of FARs requiring 100 hour inspections and such which
> don't apply to homebuilts anyway of course.
Does this mean we can rent out our RVs to a few carefully chosen pilots?
More exactly, what *can't* we do with our RVs? I've asked a number of
people this, but I haven't gotten a straight, simple answer -- something
along the order of, "You can rent it out, but if you're a CFI, you can't
rent it out, then give instruction to the person you're renting it to."
(Isn't that basically one of the definitions of "for hire" ?)
Thanks.
-Joe
--
Joe Larson jpl(at)showpg.mn.org 612-595-9690(w)
Showpage Software, Inc.
435 Ford Rd, Suite 315
St. Louis Park, Mn 55426 Starting elevator...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jpl(at)showpg.mn.org (Joe Larson) |
| Subject: | Aerobatic engine installation |
I'm only getting a year or two ahead of myself, but I like to plan things
out. I ordered my wing kit, complete with the inverted option for one
wing. I figure if I'm going to spend all this time and money on an
airplane capable of unusual flight, I would be foolish not to go the
extra step and have an inverted fuel system.
So, this involves the inverted tank setup and a Christian inverted oil
system.
My question: can I use a carburated engine? Or do I require fuel injection?
If I'm going to do the rest of it (inverted oil, etc), it would be foolish
if the engine quits 'cause the carb won't feed it fuel.
-Joe
--
Joe Larson jpl(at)showpg.mn.org 612-595-9690(w)
Showpage Software, Inc.
435 Ford Rd, Suite 315
St. Louis Park, Mn 55426 Future RV-6A pilot.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
It might help to make sure you have the factory head of the rivet on
the side with the thinner material (i.e. the spar web side, with the
bucked end on the flange strip side). This is standard practice and
helps keep the material from "scalloping" as it can do with thinner
material around the bucktail.
Randall Henderson
RV-6
> -- [ From: Daniel R. Urbanski * EMC.Ver #2.10P ] --
>
> I have fabricatedl the spars and ribs for the HS, and I started to
> rivit them together using the hand squeezer (rib 606, 608, 405, to rear
> spar). I have the ribs clecoed to the spar, the two surfaces are tight
> against each other, everything is tight and flush. My problem is this.
> After I squeeze the rivits together a gap appears between the to parts,
> where I can see light, perhaps .005". I have drilled out the rivit and
> done it a 2nd time,(thinking I may have been a little careless the 1st
> time) with the same results. Does anyone have any suggestions as how to
> keep the too surfaces tight.
> I am also shopping for a rivit gun. I have been told not to use a air
> hammer. What is wrong with a air hammer? They take the same .401 shank,
> and they have the same type of behive spring.
> All replies appreciated.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JamesCone(at)aol.com |
Cleco every other hole and rivet in between the clecos. Remove the clecos
and rivet those holes. Be sure that you have porperly deburred the holes
before you cleco the parts together for final riveting.
As for the rivet gun, get the one that Avery sells. You need the control
that the gun gives. An air hammer does not have the control you need and you
will ruin your parts if you use one.
Jim Cone
Working on finishing kit.
jamescone(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Roger Boulanger <rboulang(at)dallas.net> |
| Subject: | Which Alternator? |
I am building an RV6 with 160hp engine. The plane is equipped for "light"
IFR flight with Terra radio/vor/adf/xpdr stack plus King com/GPS. I have
also put in a single axis auto pilot. I have pitot heat, nav lights,
strobes, taxi lights, and landing lights.
My question is: What capacity of alternator should I go for? Vans used to
have alternators in his accessories catalog but no longer does. What type of
alternator is best suited for the RV6? What is a good source?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DerFlieger(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Where to find tire stem access hole cover? |
writes:
>
> Where can I find the following.
> I need a access hole cover for the wheel pants to allow access
> to the valve stem to add air to the tires (without removing the wheel
>pants).
Old Cessna wheel pants had a plastic plug for a hole size of 1 15/16 inches.
I bought a couple from Bert once. I thought they were a bit large for my
wheelpants so I used metal plumbing plugs (cosmetic) for 1 1/2 inch holes.
Happy with them.
Jim Stugart
Austin, TX
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jperri(at)interserv.com |
| Subject: | Re: Which Alternator? |
Try B&C Specialty Products Inc. in Newton Ks. (316) 283-8000
They put out a terrific combination 60 Amp alternator and linear voltage
regulator. I have a fully equipped RV-6 with IFR including S-Tec auto pilot.
This system keeps up with the loads under all conditions.
Thanks
J Perri RV-6 N345JE 350 hrs. CFII
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dan_burns(at)smtpgwy.dehavilland.ca |
| Subject: | Re: Aerobatic engine installation |
Joe,
You will need a system which doesn't use a float for controlling the
fuel availability. You will require a "fuel injection" type system
however you're not restricted to the conventional Bendix injection
system.
The Ellison TBI is an option which some acro pilots are using. It
doesn't require the flow divider nor the individual injector for each
cylinder.
Airflow Performance has a fuel injection which is being used on the
One Design test aircraft. This system is similar to the Bendix style
system.
There is also a POSA system available but I haven't heard much about
it.
Danny
21044
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: RV-List: Aerobatic engine installation
Date: 16/11/95 20:11
My question: can I use a carburated engine? Or do I require fuel injection?
Joe Larson jpl(at)showpg.mn.org 612-595-9690(w)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TommyLewis(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Concurrent Wing Constructio |
James, I am building both wings at the same time and have found it to be a
very good idea because as you figure out each step, I just do it twice. The
downside is that progress "seems" slow because you have to do each step
twice. However, I am sure it has saved time and I would do it again this
way. I took a tape measure out to the shop and did some measuring, as a
result I probably am answering more than you asked but this is what has
worked for me.
I have a 20 x 20 ft two car garage. I use 12 x 20 as a work area for the RV
leaving room for my wifes car. In that work area, I have two wing jigs in
the front taking up about 9 x 12 ft. In that space, the jigs are 42 inches
apart, leaving plenty of space to walk between each wing. Each wing jig has
108 inches between posts, with the spar resting 54 inches above the floor,
this puts the leading edge of the wing at 6 ft and the trailing edge of the
flap at 14 inches from floor. Again this is what has worked for me. I
have top skins riveted on both wings, ailerons hung, first flap hinge drilled
to wing. I expect to soon start riveting the bottom skins.
I ordered the fuselage kit on Nov 6, just got acknowledgement from Van's to
expect kit to be in batch that begins shipping on Jan 1. I also have
ordered the heated pitot tube bracket from the guy in Colo. Happy building
!!
Tom & Bonnie Lewis
TommyLewis(at)AOL.com
RV6a project, N967RV reserved
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rso(at)css.ncifcrf.gov (Becki Orndorff) |
| Subject: | Re: Which Alternator? |
Roger,
We are very pleased with a light weight alternator we get from Bill
Bainbridge at B&C Specialties. He also sells regulators and batteries. His
phone number is 316-283-8662. Tell him George and Becki said "Hi".
Becki Orndorff
>I am building an RV6 with 160hp engine. The plane is equipped for "light"
>IFR flight with Terra radio/vor/adf/xpdr stack plus King com/GPS. I have
>also put in a single axis auto pilot. I have pitot heat, nav lights,
>strobes, taxi lights, and landing lights.
>
>My question is: What capacity of alternator should I go for? Vans used to
>have alternators in his accessories catalog but no longer does. What type of
>alternator is best suited for the RV6? What is a good source?
>
>
Becki Orndorff
NCI-FCRDC, Computer & Statistical Services
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WStucklen(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Experimantal Limitations |
>Does this mean we can rent out our RVs to a few carefully chosen pilots?
>More exactly, what *can't* we do with our RVs? I've asked a number of
>people this, but I haven't gotten a straight, simple answer -- something
>along the order of, "You can rent it out, but if you're a CFI, you can't
>rent it out, then give instruction to the person you're renting it to."
>(Isn't that basically one of the definitions of "for hire" ?)
>Thanks.
>-Joe
Part 91.319 of the FAR's specifies the operating limitations for
experimental aircraft.
In section 91.319-a-2 it states that "(a)"No person may operate an aircraft
that has an experimental certificate -" (2) "carring persons or property for
compensation or hire."
I haven't found any other reference to "experimental Aircraft in the
FAR's. (That dosen't mean there aren't any...) and I have the following
questions:
1. Can anybody tell if there are any other references in the FAR's to the
operation of experimantal aircraft other than in Part
91.319.
2. Is it "legal" to "rent" an experimental aircraft to another pilot? Or
is that considered a Part 135 operation as defined in 135.1 or
"Commercial" operation as defined in part 1.1 Generatl Definitions?
3. Does anybody know where I can get a disk copy of the current FAR's?
It is interesting to note that Part 61.1.h.3 excludes the need for the
pilot to have a tailwheel endorsement to fly experimental aircraft. However,
we are still required to have a high performance endorsement if our RV engine
horsepower exceeds 200HP and has a constant speed prop (and has flaps).
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
wstucklen(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Which Alternator? |
I've just installed a B&C 60 amp alternator after flying for three years with
a Mark Landol
30 amp alt. I really wish I had done this earlier,but it took a trip home in
the dark following a low battery experience to complete my education.
There are some things you can cut corners on, but an electrical system
and equipment for flying at night is not among of them.
There are systems around which will probably work as well, but I highly
recommend B&C as the unit is a simple bolt on with no cowl buffers or
modifications required.
Good Luck,
Wrgway
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6junkie(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Which Alternator? |
If money matters, call Mark Landoll @ 405-392-3847. He uses 35 amp and 65
amp Mazda/Ford alternators. The 65 amp unit is BIG and weighs 4,000 lbs.
The prices for the alternators are hard to beat. He sells a bracket (boss
or case mount) with the alternator. His workmanship is poor at best, but with
a little additional work, the brackets work just fine. Alternator, bracket
and adjustment arm cost about $100.
If money doesn't matter, call B&C Specialty @ 316-283-8662. They have a 60
amp alternator that is a modern work of art. This thing is small (about the
size of your fist) and powerfull. Price is a little over $400. If you have
the funds it's worth every penny.
BTW, B&C is a great source for batterys, voltage regulators, "clix-on" style
circut breakers and other goodies. IMO, price on the VR is high, price on
batterys ok, and the price on the non-certified clix-on's is great.
I've had very good luck with these people.
Oh, based on the equipment list you mentioned, don't get less than a 50 amp
unit. Tony B. had a great article on how to determine your amperage needs in
a Sport Aviation article about 2 1/2 years ago.
Gary Corde
RV-6 N211GC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dierks(at)austin.ibm.com |
| Subject: | Aerobatic engine installation (fwd) |
Yes, the engine will quit when inverted with a normal float type carb.
The aerobatic options are:
1) Fuel Injection
2) Ellison throttle body carb
3) PS5C pressure carb.
The best way to go is with fuel injection. This can be either the
Bendix system or the Air Flow Research system.
The bendix is probably the best system but may be quite expensive
and expensive to work on as is a fully approved for AC unit.
For experimental use, the Air Flow research system is a very nice system
and a more reasonable price (plus you buy it new). Several on the net
are using it. It was used on the prototype One Design and it has had
the heck flew out of it. I think the Air Flow unit is around $1,800 or so.
Note that you will need a different fuel pump with each of these so
count that in on the price and be sure to get the proper pump for the
injector/carb you buy.
The Ellison will work for acro as it does not have a float. It is
quite expensive for a 'carb' in my opinion. Don't recal the exact price
but it is around 1200 for the 0320 size and maybe $1500 for the 0360 size.
The PS5C is an option but I would rule it out due to the very high overhaul
costs. you can buy a Air Flow Research or Ellison for what it costs to OH
the PS5C. It is also quite complicated. I have one on my Pitts and it has
performed well but it is expensive to work on and complicated.
In summary, I would buy the Air Flow Research unless you can find a good
deal on a used or OH'd Bendix unit.
Herman
dierks(at)austin.ibm.com
> Subject: RV-List: Aerobatic engine installation
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Thu, 16 Nov 1995 16:52:38 -0600 (CST)
>
> I'm only getting a year or two ahead of myself, but I like to plan things
> out. I ordered my wing kit, complete with the inverted option for one
> wing. I figure if I'm going to spend all this time and money on an
> airplane capable of unusual flight, I would be foolish not to go the
> extra step and have an inverted fuel system.
>
> So, this involves the inverted tank setup and a Christian inverted oil
> system.
>
> My question: can I use a carburated engine? Or do I require fuel injection?
>
> If I'm going to do the rest of it (inverted oil, etc), it would be foolish
> if the engine quits 'cause the carb won't feed it fuel.
>
> -Joe
>
> --
> Joe Larson jpl(at)showpg.mn.org 612-595-9690(w)
> Showpage Software, Inc.
> 435 Ford Rd, Suite 315
> St. Louis Park, Mn 55426 Future RV-6A pilot.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gil(at)rassp.hac.com (Gil Alexander) |
| Subject: | Re: Experimantal Limitations |
*** snip ***
>
> I haven't found any other reference to "experimental Aircraft in the
>FAR's. (That dosen't mean there aren't any...) and I have the following
>questions:
>
> 1. Can anybody tell if there are any other references in the FAR's to the
> operation of experimantal aircraft other than in Part
>91.319.
> 2. Is it "legal" to "rent" an experimental aircraft to another pilot? Or
>is that considered a Part 135 operation as defined in 135.1 or
>"Commercial" operation as defined in part 1.1 Generatl Definitions?
I'm not sure of the legality, but both Soaring operations in
Minden, NV rent out Experimental gliders ("Exhibition and Racing"
sub-class) and have been for years. I presume their insurance companies
are well aware of it. The FARs usually treat the different classes of
Experimental aircraft the same. I used to think this was not legal, but
following some of the previous comments, I'm now not sure....
> 3. Does anybody know where I can get a disk copy of the current FAR's?
I can get a WWW web site address, and you can down load the file and print
it if that will do ...
>
*** snip ***
>Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
>wstucklen(at)aol.com
Gil Alexander
gil(at)rassp.hac.com
RV6A, #20701, .... trying to decide on instruments etc. to complete
a panel layout ...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Chandler <mauser(at)Claris.COM> |
| Subject: | Re: Which Alternator? |
> If money matters, call Mark Landoll @ 405-392-3847. He uses 35 amp
> and 65 amp Mazda/Ford alternators. The 65 amp unit is BIG and
> weighs 4,000 lbs.
Yow! Must still be attached to the Ford it came in, eh? That'll really play
hob with the W&B.
:-)
--
"Wait a minute, you expect us innocent children to climb up dangerous
scaffolding and paint naked people all over a church? We'll do it!!"
-- Yakko Warner, Animaniacs
"Yeah, I've got ADD, you wanna make something of.... oooh, cool. Look!"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BPattonsoa(at)aol.com |
I built my HP-18, 15 meter glider, with an air hammer. Including the
trailer there are about 12,000 solid rivets. When I started the RV-6A, I
purchased a good rivet gun. What a difference. I still look at the glider
with total amazement that the rivets look as good as they do.
You can do it with an air hammer, but a good rivet gun is like Dryers ice
cream compared with sour cottage cheese. I prefer the rivet gun to the
squeezer, and get better results with flush rivets all the time. Those
starting out seem afraid of the rivet gun. Learn how to use it. There are a
huge number of rivets that you can't do unless you learn how. Learn to use
both hands on the gun, learn how to do it standing on your head. Once you
get it down, and that may take a few dozen practice shots, life building
becomes much easier. You won't even hesitate before grabbing the rivet gun.
Bruce Patton
Fues in jig, wings on, L.G. mounts being fitted (what a pain!)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jcimino(at)jcimino.microserve.com (Jim Cimino) |
| Subject: | Re: Experimantal Limitations |
>
>>Does this mean we can rent out our RVs to a few carefully chosen pilots?
>>More exactly, what *can't* we do with our RVs? I've asked a number of
>>people this, but I haven't gotten a straight, simple answer -- something
>>along the order of, "You can rent it out, but if you're a CFI, you can't
>>rent it out, then give instruction to the person you're renting it to."
>>(Isn't that basically one of the definitions of "for hire" ?)
>>Thanks.
>>-Joe
>
> Part 91.319 of the FAR's specifies the operating limitations for
>experimental aircraft.
>In section 91.319-a-2 it states that "(a)"No person may operate an aircraft
>that has an experimental certificate -" (2) "carring persons or property for
>compensation or hire."
>
> I haven't found any other reference to "experimental Aircraft in the
>FAR's. (That dosen't mean there aren't any...) and I have the following
>questions:
>
> 1. Can anybody tell if there are any other references in the FAR's to the
> operation of experimantal aircraft other than in Part
>91.319.
> 2. Is it "legal" to "rent" an experimental aircraft to another pilot? Or
>is that considered a Part 135 operation as defined in 135.1 or
>"Commercial" operation as defined in part 1.1 Generatl Definitions?
> 3. Does anybody know where I can get a disk copy of the current FAR's?
>
> It is interesting to note that Part 61.1.h.3 excludes the need for the
>pilot to have a tailwheel endorsement to fly experimental aircraft. However,
>we are still required to have a high performance endorsement if our RV engine
>horsepower exceeds 200HP and has a constant speed prop (and has flaps).
>
>Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
>wstucklen(at)aol.com
>
>There are links to the sights that have the FAR's on my home page. Some of
the sights are harvard U. and Embry-Riddle. My page is located at
"http://www.microserve.com/~jcimino"
Jim Cimino RV-4 sn 4079
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JamesCone(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Which Alternator? |
I have the pelican alternator sold by ACS. It has 65 amp capacity and has a
built-in voltage regualtor. It has thermal protection that is self
resetting. It works great and will power everything you could need.
Jim Cone
Working on finishing kit
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | joehine(at)mi.net (joehine) |
| Subject: | Re: Which Alternator? |
>I am building an RV6 with 160hp engine. The plane is equipped for "light"
>IFR flight with Terra radio/vor/adf/xpdr stack plus King com/GPS. I have
>also put in a single axis auto pilot. I have pitot heat, nav lights,
>strobes, taxi lights, and landing lights.
>
>My question is: What capacity of alternator should I go for? Vans used to
>have alternators in his accessories catalog but no longer does. What type of
>alternator is best suited for the RV6? What is a good source?
>
>
Roger
From all the replys you are getting it appears that B&C makes a very
good alternator, I don't have any experiance with them myself but I thought
I would pass along what I have done. I ordered the alternator bracket that
Van's sells and with the instructions that came with that was a part number
for a toyota et al alternator that is small, 60 amps and fits both the
bracket and under an RV4 cowl. I haven't run the engine yet but a friend
has the same set up and has had no problems. Van expresses concern with the
speed the alternator will turn with the standard pully on but gives a part
number of a chevrolet pulley that can replace the one that comes with the
unit. The unit has a built in regulator and and internal fan. The rebuild
shop I bought my from says the unit is strong enough to handle the extra
speed but I am a little worried about that. He is used to watercooled car
and not tightly cowled air cooled aircraft and I don't think he is aware of
the conditions the alternator has to work in
If you are building on a budget as I am, this seems to be a good
alternative. Hope this helps.
Joe
Joe Hine
joehine(at)mi.net
RV4 1118 (old one but getting close)
Joe Hine
joehine(at)mi.net
(506)452-1072 (H)
(506)452-3495 (W)
Fredericton N.B.
Canada
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Aerobatic engine installation (fwd) |
Speaking of inverted systems, I've got a Bendix fuel injection system for
sale. It came off of an IO 320 E2A (Citabria) and has only 90 hours on it.
It is not as costly as claimed -- I'll part with it for a mere $1,750.00 (or
for an amount there about). And, IMHO, the Bendix system works very well.
Jay Jenkins - Citabria (Wanna be an RV) Driver
(e-mail - jaythe(at)aol.com)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JerryFlyRV(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Which Alternator? |
>I have the pelican alternator sold by ACS. It has 65 amp capacity and has a
>built-in voltage regualtor. It has thermal protection that is self
>resetting. It works great and will power everything you could need.
>
>
I have heard that Pelican is no longer in business could be just a rumor. It
is the same alternator used on Chev Sprints, Sazuki Sammuri (sp?) etc.. It
weighs about 7Lbs. and puts out 60 amps I got mine at a wreacking yard for
$45.00 and $2.00 to have it checked out, that was seven years ago and 700+
hrs of flying. I made my own bracket and used the stock pully. My airplane
has all the whistles and bells and this alternator works great.
Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bcos(at)ix.netcom.com (William Costello ) |
| Subject: | Elevator leading edge question |
Hi All,
I am bending the leading edge of the elevator and find it much more
difficult than the rudder, due to the fact that it is a smaller radius
and that it had the counter-balance arm on one end which does not allow
the pipe (I'm using plastic, about 1 inch diam) to extend beyond the
material for gripping with a pipe wrench or whatever.
Does anyone have any method that they thought worked well for them or
any tricks that helped? Thanks to those who respond.
Bill Costello
RV-6 empennage
Chicago bcos(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bruce Oliver <75274.3426(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Bill Catelos Emp. |
Bill, I used a long handle from a broom, wood, with a lot of duct tape all the
way down it, lengthwise. I was surprised that it held, but it did. With a
vise-grip on the end it turned ok.
Bruce, on wings.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MHammersmi(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Aerobatic engine installation (fwd) |
>Yes, the engine will quit when inverted with a normal float type carb.
> The aerobatic options are:
> 1) Fuel Injection
> 2) Ellison throttle body carb
> 3) PS5C pressure carb.
>
> The best way to go is with fuel injection. This can be either the
> Bendix system or the Air Flow Research system.
> The bendix is probably the best system but may be quite expensive
> and expensive to work on as is a fully approved for AC unit.
> For experimental use, the Air Flow research system is a very nice system
> and a more reasonable price (plus you buy it new). Several on the net
> are using it. It was used on the prototype One Design and it has had
> the heck flew out of it. I think the Air Flow unit is around $1,800 or
so.
>
> Note that you will need a different fuel pump with each of these so
> count that in on the price and be sure to get the proper pump for the
> injector/carb you buy.
>
> The Ellison will work for acro as it does not have a float. It is
> quite expensive for a 'carb' in my opinion. Don't recal the exact price
> but it is around 1200 for the 0320 size and maybe $1500 for the 0360 size.
>
I'm running an Ellison (on a Sonerai) and it operates quite wel,
is resistant to carb ice and offers great mixture control. As you stated
since it has no float it will function in any attitude. I'd be opting for an
Ellison over the alternatives strictly on cost and complexity. No fdlow
sensors or extra plumbing required. Install the Ellison like a carburator and
enjoy!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | meehan(at)coopext.cahe.wsu.edu (Don Meehan) |
| Subject: | Re2:bending elevator leading edge. |
We used a pipe wrench on one end of a 5 ft long pipe and an extra set of
hands helping bend the alum material. Duct taped the entire thing. worked
fine.
>Hi All,
>
>I am bending the leading edge of the elevator and find it much more
>difficult than the rudder, due to the fact that it is a smaller radius
>and that it had the counter-balance arm on one end which does not allow
>the pipe (I'm using plastic, about 1 inch diam) to extend beyond the
>material for gripping with a pipe wrench or whatever.
>
>Does anyone have any method that they thought worked well for them or
>any tricks that helped? Thanks to those who respond.
>
> Bill Costello
> RV-6 empennage
> Chicago bcos(at)ix.netcom.com
>
>
Don Meehan - meehan(at)wsu.edu
Whidbey RV-ators
721 N. Palisades
Coupeville, WA 98239
( Fuselage - RV6A - moving on to Finish Kit.)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Veriprime and Coleman fuel |
I have read that Coleman fuel can be used to prepare for priming, along with
the use of Scotchbrite pads. I have all of this on hand, including the
Veriprime 615S and 616S. What is the procedure? Do I wipe down the parts
with Coleman fuel, then Scotchbrite? Or, is wiping with Coleman alone
sufficient? Note: I've completed the forward and rear HS spars and the VS
spar for my RV-6A project. Beyond waiting for a 60 deg. plus day to spray
out of doors, any suggestions? I've considered building a booth in our
basement, and have the recommended mask, but concerned about fumes.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Ruble <cruble(at)cisco.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Elevator leading edge question |
>
> Hi All,
>
> I am bending the leading edge of the elevator and find it much more
> difficult than the rudder, due to the fact that it is a smaller radius
> and that it had the counter-balance arm on one end which does not allow
> the pipe (I'm using plastic, about 1 inch diam) to extend beyond the
> material for gripping with a pipe wrench or whatever.
>
> Does anyone have any method that they thought worked well for them or
> any tricks that helped? Thanks to those who respond.
>
> Bill Costello
> RV-6 empennage
> Chicago bcos(at)ix.netcom.com
>
I used a 3/4" Diam. wood dowle (SP?) with a slot cut in one side to
accomadate the flange on the lower side of the skin. Use the...err...stick
to start the bend. Once you have the curve started you can finish the
bending process by hand. This works much better than you would think. I
learned this from a guy that has built an award winning -6.
Chris
P.S. Lots of "duct tape" on the stick to skin connection too.
P.P.S. Those little cuts on you knuckles are secondary to
producing a aestheticly pleasing curve in the leading edge.
No pain-no plane.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Curt Reimer <Curt_Reimer(at)MBnet.MB.CA> |
| Subject: | Re: Veriprime and Coleman fuel |
On Sun, 19 Nov 1995 GreenRV(at)aol.com wrote:
> I have read that Coleman fuel can be used to prepare for priming,
along with
> the use of Scotchbrite pads. I have all of this on hand, including the
> Veriprime 615S and 616S. What is the procedure? Do I wipe down the parts
> with Coleman fuel, then Scotchbrite? Or, is wiping with Coleman alone
> sufficient? Note: I've completed the forward and rear HS spars and the VS
> spar for my RV-6A project. Beyond waiting for a 60 deg. plus day to spray
> out of doors, any suggestions? I've considered building a booth in our
> basement, and have the recommended mask, but concerned about fumes.
Scotchbrite first, then Coleman fuel, then prime (within 24 hrs).
A paint booth is a fine idea. Build an enclosure next to a basement
window so you can install a BIG fan to suck the fumes out. If you build
it right, you won't have any fume problems, as long as you have the fan
running and keep all your solvent based activities inside the booth.
Curt Reimer
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Curt Reimer <Curt_Reimer(at)MBnet.MB.CA> |
| Subject: | Re: Elevator leading edge question |
On Sat, 18 Nov 1995, William Costello wrote:
> I am bending the leading edge of the elevator and find it much more
> difficult than the rudder, due to the fact that it is a smaller radius
> and that it had the counter-balance arm on one end which does not allow
> the pipe (I'm using plastic, about 1 inch diam) to extend beyond the
> material for gripping with a pipe wrench or whatever.
I be a bit suspicious of the plastic pipe, it may not be rigid enough.
Try a wooden broomstick or metal pipe if you have it. You want something
stiff enough that whatever torque you apply to the pipe wrench end will
be transmitted all the way to the counterbalance end without twisting.
Two people would be an asset; one to turn the wrench and one to hold the
far end down against the table.
Curt Reimer
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KingD(at)Direct.Ca (David W.S. King) |
| Subject: | Re: Veriprime and Coleman fuel |
>I have read that Coleman fuel can be used to prepare for priming, along with
>the use of Scotchbrite pads. I have all of this on hand, including the
>Veriprime 615S and 616S. What is the procedure? Do I wipe down the parts
>with Coleman fuel, then Scotchbrite? Or, is wiping with Coleman alone
>sufficient? Note: I've completed the forward and rear HS spars and the VS
>spar for my RV-6A project. Beyond waiting for a 60 deg. plus day to spray
>out of doors, any suggestions? I've considered building a booth in our
>basement, and have the recommended mask, but concerned about fumes.
Coleman fuel has naptha gas in it. This is a degreaser and all it can do is
make sure there will be no grease or oils left on the alumm to stop
everything from sticking. Not having a can in front of me I'm not sure if
there are any additives in the fuel. If there are you mighht be better off
to puchase mek or other more pure solvent degeasers from the hardware store.
If there are unwanted additives you might risk your new paint scabing off in
hand sized bits within 6 months. You want to make sure there are no oils or
other lubicrants in the fuel. If there are at the least you will have fish
eyes in the paint, worse than that it will scab off.
You still need to surface prep the aluminum or use a self etching primer to
ensure evrything stays where you want it to.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | OrndorffG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Veriprime and Co... |
I have used just coleman fuel as a degreaser and it works just find. In the
manual it calls foe coleman fuel to degrease before you proseal. Most of the
time you can just wipe your parts off with just a clean cloth, how ever so
the the material come with a plastic covering on them and the glue on the
plastic is harder to get off and you may need to use a scothbrite pad and
some coleman to remove it.
Happy building ....George Orndorff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rso(at)css.ncifcrf.gov (Becki Orndorff) |
| Subject: | Re: Veriprime and Coleman fuel |
We have been satisfied with the results of wiping with Coleman fuel and
then priming with Vari-prime. We don't use Scotchbrite pads until we are
ready for final painting. The coat of Vari-prime is very light and pen
marks can still be read through it.
Also, we have found as long as it is dry outside, we had sprayed as long
as it is above freezing. We let the parts dry outside for about 10 minutes
and then bring them into the relatively warm basement to finish drying.
Becki Orndorff
>I have read that Coleman fuel can be used to prepare for priming, along with
>the use of Scotchbrite pads. I have all of this on hand, including the
>Veriprime 615S and 616S. What is the procedure? Do I wipe down the parts
>with Coleman fuel, then Scotchbrite? Or, is wiping with Coleman alone
>sufficient? Note: I've completed the forward and rear HS spars and the VS
>spar for my RV-6A project. Beyond waiting for a 60 deg. plus day to spray
>out of doors, any suggestions? I've considered building a booth in our
>basement, and have the recommended mask, but concerned about fumes.
>
>
Becki Orndorff
NCI-FCRDC, Computer & Statistical Services
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | James Kelley <James.Kelley.0186110(at)nt.com> |
| Subject: | Emp. Leading Edge Bend. |
Bill, I took a peice of 1" iron pipe and cut it to fit between the =
control horn and the counter balance. This will allow you to grip just =
the end of the pipe and turn using a pipe wrench or vise grips. I used =
packing tape, the clear kind, to tape the skin to the pipe. This tape =
also seems to work real well to hold the rivits in while back riviting. =
The dowel rod with the slot cut in it sounds like a good idea also.
James Kelley (RV6A)
Waiting on wings.......
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WStucklen(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Experimantal Limitations |
>Gil Alexander
>gil(at)rassp.hac.com
>RV6A, #20701, .... trying to decide on instruments etc. to complete
> a panel layout ...
Thanks in advance for the WWW address for the FAR's.
I have an AutoCad panel layout for my RV-6A if your interested. Don't think
that AOL allows files to be attached to messages going outside of AOL yet, so
if you want it, I'll have to send it via the WWW to you address. Is that OK?
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
wstucklen(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DerFlieger(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Veriprime and Coleman fuel |
In response to the posting Nov 19 1995 by GreenRV(at)aol.com:
IMO the best procedure for pre-prime is:
1. Remove any oily or greasy or pen marks with MEK, naptha, acetone if
necessary.I have wondered if Coleman fuel has any additives which leave
residue on the metal. It will not always be necessary to use these
solvents. If its steel, ALWAYS use these solvents first.
2. Use red scotchbrite and 409 cleaner with plenty of water and elbow grease.
I do mine outside on the grass, unless it's too cold, then in the laundry
sink. This procedure is also designed to give the metal some "tooth" which
is necessary for the primer to adhere well. When you wash the soap off watch
for any beading up of the water. If it's clean, the water will run off in
sheets. If it doesn't sheet off, wash it again or use one of the solvents
and then wash again. Air dry unless you KNOW there are no contaminants in
your towels such as wax or oils. Also be wary of getting your skin oils on
the metal.
I use our oven a lot for drying parts (and also acceleration of drying of
primer and finish coats).
3. If you want your primer/paint to really stick, such as exterior parts,
etch and alodine them prior to priming. Most of the time you can skip this
step. However, it is a fine way to protect parts such as engine baffles etc.
which will not be primed or painted.
4. Use a heavy enough coat of primer to permit flow out and prevent premature
drying, or the etching feature won't work as well. High temperatures call
for reducing the Veriprime. High humidity causes Veriprime to have a white
blush.
Regarding the question about masks, painting inside etc.. Paint outside
whenever you can. As long as you are always upwind of the overspray, there
is no need for a mask for the Veriprime. If you are spraying isocyanates,
you should use a little more caution. For a few small parts,outside, you
can remain upwind and skip the mask. For larger jobs outside, the standard
activated carbon (non pressurized) mask is adequate. Also a factor is
whether you are using a HVLP system which gives far less overspray, but thats
another story. INSIDE, if you have some ventilation you can spray small
parts with Veriprime with a dust mask. There are many judgement factors here
such as gas water heater dangers, amount of overspray, duration of exposure,
amount of ventilation etc.. For parts as large as a horizontal stabilizer
you should have a proper booth etc. or do it outside
For the HS or VS spars however, I would have no difficulty priming them
inside paying attention to the factors I mention. You can even do some minor
painting or touchup with isocyanates inside using a non-pressurized carbon
mask and observing the judgement factors I mention. Be sure the carbon
cartridges are within their useful life, and that the valves on the mask are
working properly. Long sleeve shirts, caps, and LATEX gloves are a must. The
gloves used by dentists are very good.
Regarding fumes. Length and degree of exposure seem to be the rational
consideration. No matter what you do you will always smell it to some
degree. If you carried it to extremes, you would have to have a positive
pressure respirator/suit just to mix your paint. Would you keep all that
stuff on when you are mixing your second or third cup of paint. The labels
on cans talk about prolonged exposure. Were not talking about chemical
warfare gases here, lets be reasonable.
Jim Stugart
DerFlieger(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | AB320FLYER(at)aol.com |
Greetings,
I have a friend who is having a used Lycoming rebuilt for his RV-6. He asked
me to inquire if anyone has any experience with cam sprayers. He is
interested in getting better lubrication to the cam during the first few
revolutions of the start. Thanks to all responders.
Joel Harding
AB320FLYER(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jhparker(at)epix.net |
we have a problem with carb ice on our RV6, set up with O-320 150 hp single
venturi MS carb.................any suggestions?
jhparker(at)epix.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David A. Barnhart" <barnhart(at)crl.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Elevator leading edge question |
On Sat, 18 Nov 1995, William Costello wrote:
> I am bending the leading edge of the elevator and find it much more
> difficult than the rudder, due to the fact that it is a smaller radius
> and that it had the counter-balance arm on one end which does not allow
> the pipe (I'm using plastic, about 1 inch diam) to extend beyond the
> material for gripping with a pipe wrench or whatever.
I don't remember the elevator being that much harder than the rudder.
I used a broomstick with a hole drilled in the side near each end.
I put a short rod in each hole, giving me the leverage I needed to
turn the broomstick. This also meant that it did not matter that the
broomstick could not extend beyond the end of the skin.
I also learned that it is important when using duct tape to tape the
rod to the skin, use enough strips of tape to cover every inch of the
length of the skin.
And finally, you really don't need to make much of a curve. All you
have to create is just enough to get the bend started.
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
rv-6 sn 23744
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David A. Barnhart" <barnhart(at)crl.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Veriprime and Coleman fuel |
On Sun, 19 Nov 1995 GreenRV(at)aol.com wrote:
> I have read that Coleman fuel can be used to prepare for priming, along with
> the use of Scotchbrite pads. I have all of this on hand, including the
> Veriprime 615S and 616S. What is the procedure?
Scotchbrite the surface first to rough it up. Then use the solvent
(Coleman fuel in your case) to clean it.
If you think it is too cold to spray outdoors, you may want to try
switching to the 620S Fast COnverter instead of the 616S (also maybe do
the spraying outside, and immediately move the wet parts indoors to dry?)
I don't think that I'd go to the trouble of trying to convert my basement
into a paint booth for just the little bit you have to do.
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
rv-6 sn 23744
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | James Kelley <James.Kelley.0186110(at)nt.com> |
| Subject: | Trim Tab Question. |
Alright, Any bright ideas on this one? Trim tab on the left elevator. =
When I installed it on the elevator the trailing edge does not line up =
with the trailing edge of the elevator. It sticks out about 1/8" inch =
more than the elevator. Any Ideas on adjusting this or should I build =
another? Hummmm.
Thanks...
James Kelley (RV6A)
WOW=3D(Waiting on Wings.)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gil(at)rassp.hac.com (Gil Alexander) |
| Subject: | Re: Cam lubrication |
>Greetings,
>I have a friend who is having a used Lycoming rebuilt for his RV-6. He asked
>me to inquire if anyone has any experience with cam sprayers. He is
>interested in getting better lubrication to the cam during the first few
>revolutions of the start. Thanks to all responders.
Joel,
about 1 to 2 years ago. It was quite a simple arrangement consisting of
several nozzles added to one of the main oil galleries in the case, with
the nozzles aimed to squirt directly onto the cams. I can't remember the
quoted price, but it seemed reasonable (that is by Lycoming standards!).
... hope this helps ... Gil Alexander
>
>Joel Harding
>AB320FLYER(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JIM SCHMIDT <JIM.SCHMIDT(at)mail.mei.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Aerobatic engine installation (fwd) -Reply |
I understand the Ellison's have very small
jets and are quite suseptable to
contamination.
Have you had any trouble with dirty fuel
clogging it?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | J.Ken_Hitchmough(at)magic.ca (J.Ken Hitchmough) |
| Subject: | Prop bolt torque |
Could someone please pass on the secret to torquing (sp) the bolts on a fixed
pitch wood prop. There just isn't enough room to get a socket on the nut.
I've seen someone use a open ended wrench and an adaptor to a torque wrench.
There's a formula for the torque, but can't quite remember it. (I seem to
remember it wasn't as simple as just deviding by 2 if the wrench is a foot
long)
Also, just where do you get the adaptors from?
Ken
RV6A
--
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Magic Online Services Toronto Inc. (416) 591-6490
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tedd McHenry <tedd(at)idacom.hp.com> |
| Subject: | Prop bolt torque |
>
> Could someone please pass on the secret to torquing (sp) the bolts on a fixed
> pitch wood prop. There just isn't enough room to get a socket on the nut.
> I've seen someone use a open ended wrench and an adaptor to a torque wrench.
> There's a formula for the torque, but can't quite remember it. (I seem to
> remember it wasn't as simple as just deviding by 2 if the wrench is a foot
> long)
> Also, just where do you get the adaptors from?
>
> Ken
> RV6A
>
Ken:
Have you tried a crowfoot wrench?
Tedd
___________________________________________________________________________
Tedd McHenry
Internet: tedd(at)idacom.hp.com
Compuserve: 75320,215
http://www.idacom.hp.com/web_doc2/People/internal/tedd/tedd.work.html
___________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gil(at)rassp.hac.com (Gil Alexander) |
Guys,
In response to a question last week, the FARs are available in
'hypertext' format on the WWW at the following location:
http:=//acro.harvard.edu/GA/fars.html
A search form is available, and the whole document is arranged by
section, with a 'clickable' index at the beginning of every section, making
it VERY easy to use.
Gil Alexander, #20701, RV6A ... working on cockpit rails and forward, top
fuselage frame & instrument panel layout.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ammeterj(at)ammeterj.seanet.com (John Ammeter) |
>we have a problem with carb ice on our RV6, set up with O-320 150 hp single
>venturi MS carb.................any suggestions?
>
>jhparker(at)epix.net
>
I have a MS carb in my RV-6 with 150 HP E2A engine. Seem to have no problem
with carb ice, even here in the Great Northwet. I do have the Rocky
Mountain carb heat adapter and Van's air filter. Under what conditions do
you find carb ice forming?
Regards,
John Ammeter
ammeterj(at)ammeterj.seanet.com
Seattle WA, USA
RV-6 N16JA
Flying 5 years
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ammeterj(at)ammeterj.seanet.com (John Ammeter) |
| Subject: | Re: Prop bolt torque |
>Could someone please pass on the secret to torquing (sp) the bolts on a fixed
>pitch wood prop. There just isn't enough room to get a socket on the nut.
>I've seen someone use a open ended wrench and an adaptor to a torque wrench.
>There's a formula for the torque, but can't quite remember it. (I seem to
>remember it wasn't as simple as just deviding by 2 if the wrench is a foot
>long)
>Also, just where do you get the adaptors from?
>
>Ken
>RV6A
>
>
>
>--
>
>-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
> Magic Online Services Toronto Inc. (416) 591-6490
>-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Use a 'Crowsfoot' open end socket. Don't recall the formula but if you use
a crowsfoot socket you won't be too far off just torquing to spec. The
formula 'may' be: measured torque value = (length of torque wrench x
required torque value)/(length of torque wrench + length of crowsfoot).
This 'formula' is deduced, not taken from the 'book'. I think it's right
but hopefully someone can verify it or correct it.
Regards
John Ammeter
ammeterj(at)ammeterj.seanet.com
Seattle WA, USA
RV-6 N16JA
Flying 5 years
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bataller(at)aviation.ultranet.com (Gary Bataller) |
| Subject: | RV6A Project For Sale |
Due to a recent turn of job-related events, I am forced to sell my RV6A
project that I have been working on for the last almost 5 years. It has
been very well constructed and has most of Van's options. It will require
a few more weeks of work (by the purchaser) before it can be inspected. I
would like to sell it to someone who wants an RV but doesn't have 5 years to
spend on it. The remaining work is mostly wiring the panel and electrical
system, finishing the brake and fuel systems and setting up the engine
systems. I am currently renting a hangar for $100 a month, and this could
probably be extended to the buyer if Central MA is within driving distance.
Otherwise, the wings could be taken off and the project could be transported
to another location. Here's the information that will be submitted to
TradeAPlane:
RV6A, 0 TT, 0320-E2A 0 SMOH, sliding canopy, electric flaps and trim.
Hangared in Central Massachusetts; near competion.
Gary Bataller
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David A. Barnhart" <barnhart(at)crl.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Trim Tab Question. |
On Mon, 20 Nov 1995, James Kelley wrote:
> Alright, Any bright ideas on this one? Trim tab on the left
> elevator. When I installed it on the elevator the trailing edge does not
> line up with the trailing edge of the elevator. It sticks out about
> 1/8" inch more than the elevator. Any Ideas on adjusting this or should
> I build another?
If you've already drilled the holes in it for the little spar that is on
the leading edge, then you are out of luck. The best bet then is to call
up vans and spend the six bucks on a new trim tab skin.
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
rv-6 sn 23744
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Veriprime and Coleman fuel |
<951120093841_28275282(at)mail06.mail.aol.com>
| From: | Ed Weber <ebw(at)hpfiebw.fc.hp.com> |
> 2. Use red scotchbrite and 409 cleaner with plenty of water and elbow grease.
A recent article in The Aviation Consumer said to never use Formula
409 on aircraft because it 'attacks aluminum'. Of course maybe that's
what you want here....
I have been doing 1) etch with metalprep and red scotchbrite/elbow
grease. 2) alodine, and 3) zinc chromate primer. I think the
metalprep takes care of oils so there is no need for solvents like MEK
first?
The Aviation Consumer article, The Traveling Tool Kit, is actually on
the web (AVweb) http://www.avweb.com/articles/toolkit.html.
--
Ed Weber Hewlett-Packard Company
voice: (303) 229-3241 ICBD Product Design
fax: (303) 229-6580 3404 E Harmony Road, MS 72
email: ebw(at)fc.hp.com Fort Collins, Co 80525
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | A200hpRV6(at)aol.com |
Would like some information on your interest group. Am currently building an
RV-6 at the Troutdale Airport. Do you have a Home Page or Web Page address
that the group can be contacted on. I am new at the internet thing and would
like to utilize the services. Please E-Mail me any info.
Thanks,
Ron
________________________________________________________________________________
Relayed; 21 Nov 95 09:50:26+0100
| From: | Barbara Bartsch <bar(at)rop.dkrz.d400.de> |
| Subject: | Where to get Variprime? |
Hello all,
We are at the beginning of our RV6-Project.
Our question: Where we can order Variprime?
Anybody can email me information, where to get Variprime,
the ordernumbers, prices, faxnumber and so on?
My email-adress (Germany): Barbara.Bartsch(at)dkrz.d400.de
By so far and thank you very much, Barbara
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave Hyde <nauga(at)windvane.umd.edu> |
| Subject: | RV6A Project For Sale |
Gary Bataller wrote:
>...I am forced to sell my RV6A project that I have been working on
>for the last almost 5 years
NO! Tell us this is a joke, please.
Dave Hyde
RV-4 fuse gathering dust
nauga(at)windvane.umd.edu
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | klgray(at)bihs.net (Ken Gray) |
What is the Rocky Mountain carb heat adapter and where do you get it?
>>we have a problem with carb ice on our RV6, set up with O-320 150 hp single
>>venturi MS carb.................any suggestions?
>>
>>jhparker(at)epix.net
>>
>I have a MS carb in my RV-6 with 150 HP E2A engine. Seem to have no problem
>with carb ice, even here in the Great Northwet. I do have the Rocky
>Mountain carb heat adapter and Van's air filter. Under what conditions do
>you find carb ice forming?
>
>Regards,
>
>John Ammeter
>ammeterj(at)ammeterj.seanet.com
>Seattle WA, USA
>RV-6 N16JA
>Flying 5 years
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | david_fried(at)smtpgwy.dehavilland.ca |
| Subject: | Prop bolt torque |
Ken
Torque is the product of a force and a moment arm, hence the units ft-lb or
lb-ft or whatever . The nut doesn't know any thing about the wrench you are
using, 100 ft-lb is equivalent to 100 pounds at the end of a one foot wrench.
If you add a three inch extension, you get the equivalent of 100 pounds at
one foot three inches (1.25 feet). This works out to 125 ft-lb torque. If you
know the desired torque at the nut simply divide it by 1.25 to get the
indicated torque required (100 ft-lb at nut requires 80 ft-lb indicated).
Make sure to keep the units straight.
This works only if the axis of the wrench and the extension are in line.
There is probably no significant correction if the extension is short and its
axis 90 degrees to that of the wrench.
David Fried
DF-6 C____
dfried(at)dehavilland.ca
>Could someone please pass on the secret to torquing (sp) the bolts on a fixed
>pitch wood prop. There just isn't enough room to get a socket on the nut.
>I've seen someone use a open ended wrench and an adaptor to a torque wrench.
>There's a formula for the torque, but can't quite remember it. (I seem to
>remember it wasn't as simple as just deviding by 2 if the wrench is a foot
>long)
>Also, just where do you get the adaptors from?
>
>Ken
>RV6A
>
>
>-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
> Magic Online Services Toronto Inc. (416) 591-6490
>-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WStucklen(at)aol.com |
>we have a problem with carb ice on our RV6, set up with O-320 150 hp single
>venturi MS carb.................any suggestions?
>
>jhparker(at)epix.net
>
>
I found that by using the lower cowl air, per the plans, that I was also
getting carburator ice. An additional temp probe off the Ultimate Scanner
verified that the carb inlet temp differential was only a couple of degrees.
Most certified aircraft have upwards to 20 degrees C differential.
The solution was to add an air box at the crossover point of the exhaust
system, and of coarse, an interface between the carb heat flap opening on the
air box. Now I am seeing the 20 degrees C difference, a noticable drop during
runup, and no carb ice, even when I have seen traces of rime ice during IFR
operations. I left the temp probe in place so as to verify venturi temps
under adverse conditions. I have never seen it near 0 degrees C when carb
heat is on while fling where I might experience it if the carb heat was off.
The muff is available from Rick Robbins, 6094 Pierson St., Arvada, Colo.
80004. Phone number is (303)- 422-9389. You still will have to construct the
attachment point on your carb air box.
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
wstucklen(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tedd McHenry <tedd(at)idacom.hp.com> |
| Subject: | Prop bolt torque |
Ken:
I concur with David's explanation. If you align the torque wrench at
right angles to the crowfoot wrench you shouldn't have to adjust the
torque setting at all. Or, you could align the torque wrench with the
crowfoot wrench and use the formula below (same as formula given in a
previous message, just rearranged).
aligned:
bolt socket end center of
center of torque wrench handle
+ + +
<--Lw--><--------------Lt--------------->
Tb
Tt = -----------
1 + Lw/Lt
where Tt = torque wrench setting
Tb = specified torque for the bolt or nut
Lt = length of torque wrench (handle center to socket center)
Lw = distance from socket center to bolt center
right angle:
bolt
center
+
+ +
socket end center of
of torque wrench handle
If you use the right angle method, be sure to achieve the right angle as
the specified torque value is reached! It's no good to start at a right
angle and then move away from the right angle as you measure torque.
I also think you should try both methods on the same bolt, to satisfy
yourself that they are achieving the same result.
Tedd McHenry
tedd(at)idacom.hp.com
75320.215(at)compuserve.com
>
> Ken
>
> Torque is the product of a force and a moment arm, hence the units ft-lb or
> lb-ft or whatever . The nut doesn't know any thing about the wrench you are
> using, 100 ft-lb is equivalent to 100 pounds at the end of a one foot wrench.
> If you add a three inch extension, you get the equivalent of 100 pounds at
> one foot three inches (1.25 feet). This works out to 125 ft-lb torque. If you
> know the desired torque at the nut simply divide it by 1.25 to get the
> indicated torque required (100 ft-lb at nut requires 80 ft-lb indicated).
> Make sure to keep the units straight.
>
> This works only if the axis of the wrench and the extension are in line.
> There is probably no significant correction if the extension is short and its
> axis 90 degrees to that of the wrench.
>
> David Fried
> DF-6 C____
> dfried(at)dehavilland.ca
>
>
>
> >Could someone please pass on the secret to torquing (sp) the bolts on a fixed
> >pitch wood prop. There just isn't enough room to get a socket on the nut.
> >I've seen someone use a open ended wrench and an adaptor to a torque wrench.
> >There's a formula for the torque, but can't quite remember it. (I seem to
> >remember it wasn't as simple as just deviding by 2 if the wrench is a foot
> >long)
> >Also, just where do you get the adaptors from?
> >
> >Ken
> >RV6A
> >
> >
> >-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
> > Magic Online Services Toronto Inc. (416) 591-6490
> >-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tedd McHenry <tedd(at)idacom.hp.com> |
Ron:
You might want to start with
http://www.earthlink.net/~rkhu/vans/
which is a web page about RVs.
You might also be interested in
http://acro.harvard.edu/IAC/eaa_homepg.html
The EAA Home Page
http://acro.harvard.edu/GA/ga_homepg.html
The General Aviation Home Page
http://acro.harvard.edu/GA/fars.html
FARs Home Page
http://www.avweb.com/toc/
AVweb, a commercial online magazine/service about aviation
Good luck browsing, and good luck with your RV.
Tedd
tedd(at)idacom.hp.com
75320.215(at)compuserve.com
http://www-hp.idacom.hp.com/bsts/manuals/tedd.html
>
> Would like some information on your interest group. Am currently building an
> RV-6 at the Troutdale Airport. Do you have a Home Page or Web Page address
> that the group can be contacted on. I am new at the internet thing and would
> like to utilize the services. Please E-Mail me any info.
>
> Thanks,
> Ron
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Craig Moen" <moen.craig(at)a1.granpa.dco.mts.dec.com> |
App-Message-Id:
| Subject: | Giving THANKS to all RV-LIST members |
1
Msg-Class: ALL-IN-1 IOS Server for OpenVMS V3.1 BL121 (US) ENGLISH 17-JUN-1994
[This message is converted from WPS-PLUS to ASCII]
Dear RVers,
I have been a RV-List reader for only a month.
In the spirit of Thanksgiving I would like to express my
thanks to all the wonderful contributors to the RV-list. I
have learned volumes from the archive and will save big in
time and $$ when the day comes for construction of my own
project.
As a participant on other web notes groups in the past I must
say the RV-list group is one of the friendliest, most sharing
support/knowledge base groups I have experienced.
Happy Thanksgiving,
Craig
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WStucklen(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: FARs on the Web |
The FAR's ara available in TEXT form from the FAA Library on the WEB.
Their address is ftp://ftp.fedworld.gov/pub/faa/faa.htm.
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
wstucklen(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Ruble <cruble(at)cisco.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Giving THANKS to all RV-LIST members |
1
>
> As a participant on other web notes groups in the past I must
> say the RV-list group is one of the friendliest, most sharing
^^^^^^^^^^^
> support/knowledge base groups I have experienced.
>
> Happy Thanksgiving,
> Craig
>
>
Just don't mention nose wheel vs. tail wheel....ooops, sorry 8-)
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jmpcrftr(at)teleport.com (Michael McGee) |
>Does anyone have info on what it takes to set up a camara on my RV-4 to
>take ground photographs? I'd like to be able to take photos at 1 or 2
>thousand feet agl. My 4's in construction and I'd like to at least
>look into what would be involved in mounting a camara for this purpose.
>Thanks.
>Dan Boudro
>RV-4 #3933
>
>
At the last Portland RV-ators builders group meeting Mike's RV-4 fuse had a
window in the floor. It is foreward of the front stick and is about 6 to 8
inches square. I'm not sure if this was intended for photography or
dogfights or both or neither but it should work well for taking pictures.
Mike McGee & Jackie Stiles, Vancouver, WA jmpcrftr(at)teleport.com
RV-6 ..sn 23530.. (in the "plans" still) .. shop almost ready ...
SHOP: ++++++++-- (It's almost ready, we have jigs)
TAIL: ----------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris Ruble" <cruble(at)cisco.com> |
App-Message-Id: <199511211706.JAA21857(at)yorkie.cisco.com>
| Subject: | Re: Giving THANKS to all RV-LIST members |
1
>
> As a participant on other web notes groups in the past I must
> say the RV-list group is one of the friendliest, most sharing
^^^^^^^^^^^
> support/knowledge base groups I have experienced.
>
> Happy Thanksgiving,
> Craig
>
>
Just don't mention nose wheel vs. tail wheel....ooops, sorry 8-)
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert Busick <rbusick(at)nmsu.edu> |
Can anyone tell me what the symbol just before rkhu is. I have been unable
to get on the web page because of this. I've tried every symbol on my
computer with no luck. Thanks
Bob Busick
RV-6
>
> http://www.earthlink.net/~rkhu/vans/
>
> which is a web page about RVs.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Randy Stockberger <randys(at)hpcvrqa.cv.hp.com> |
That is the tilde. Some people call it veeb, but I don't think that is
correct. Non-geeks call it squiggly, which is totaly bogus.
It is the ASCII 126 (7E hex) character.
On my keyboard it is the shifted character above the back quote in the upper
left corner of the keyboard.
> Can anyone tell me what the symbol just before rkhu is. I have been unable
> to get on the web page because of this. I've tried every symbol on my
> computer with no luck. Thanks
>
> Bob Busick
> RV-6
> >
> > http://www.earthlink.net/~rkhu/vans/
> >
> > which is a web page about RVs.
--
Randy Stockberger
randys(at)cv.hp.com
Corvallis, OR
503-715-3589
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | crazer(at)midwest.net (Chester Razer) |
| Subject: | Fuel Tank Pick up Tube |
I'd be interested to hear some comments, good or bad, from builders who
have constructed fuel tank pick up lines as shown in the plans (the 3/8"
tube with the crimped end and slots cut in the top part of the tubing). I'm
constructing mine now and I can't decide to construct as per the plans or
use finger screens on the end of the pickup tube.
Chet Razer
crazer(at)midwest.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Terry Williams <terry(at)ouijibo.netcom.com> |
Bob, (and any others for that matter) would you kindly place your
correct Internet email address in you signature line so that I can
reply to you directly instead of the entire list.
In answer to your question:
The character you seek is the tilde (or squiggle). On my keyboard
it is just left of the number one key on the top row of the standard
QWERTY keys. You will have to use the SHIFT key to type it. Once
again, on my keyboard it is the shifted single backquote key.
This character is used to indicate a user account. There is a user
named "rkhu" on the earthlink.net web server.
tw
Begin forwarded message:
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 1995 10:37:25 -0700 (MST)
From: Robert Busick <nmsu.edu!rbusick(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: information
Can anyone tell me what the symbol just before rkhu is. I have
been unable
to get on the web page because of this. I've tried every symbol on my
computer with no luck. Thanks
Bob Busick
RV-6
>
> <http://www.earthlink.net/~rkhu/vans/
>
> which is a web page about RVs.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tedd McHenry <tedd(at)idacom.hp.com> |
Bob:
The symbol is a tilde (~), which is normally the uppercase character for
the top-most and left-most key on a keyboard. Hold down the shift key
and type the far left key in the top row.
If you have no luck there, you might be able to copy and paste the http
address from this message, depending on what type of computer you're using.
(Another good reason to use either Mac or UNIX--the real computer user's
choices .)
Tedd
>
> Can anyone tell me what the symbol just before rkhu is. I have been unable
> to get on the web page because of this. I've tried every symbol on my
> computer with no luck. Thanks
>
> Bob Busick
> RV-6
> >
> > http://www.earthlink.net/~rkhu/vans/
> >
> > which is a web page about RVs.
>
___________________________________________________________________________
Tedd McHenry |
Technical Writer | e-mail: tedd(at)idacom.hp.com
Hewlett-Packard (Canada) | Compuserve: 75320,215
IDACOM Telecom Operation | phone: (403) 430-2603
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada | fax: (403) 430-2772
http://www.idacom.hp.com/web_doc2/People/internal/tedd/tedd.work.html
___________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rob.acker(at)greatesc.com (Rob Acker) |
| Subject: | Re: Giving THANK |
CI> Just don't mention nose wheel vs. tail wheel....ooops, sorry 8-)
Good idea. I like the Van's video adjectives, sporty vs. utilitarian
.
Rob.
* SLMR 2.1a * Don't let school interfere with your education.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rob.acker(at)greatesc.com (Rob Acker) |
NM>Can anyone tell me what the symbol just before rkhu is. I have been unable
NM>to get on the web page because of this. I've tried every symbol on my
NM>computer with no luck. Thanks
NM>> http://www.earthlink.net/~rkhu/vans/
I think it's called a "tilda" (ASCII 126 for the computer weenies here).
On a standard IBM clone keyboard, its the leftmost key on the top row of
numbers (just left of the "1").
Rob.
* SLMR 2.1a * QWK,QWK, QWK - mating call of the mail duck.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Tank Pick up Tube |
One tank built per plans, no problems, other tank used flop tube, no
problems.
580 happy hours...Rv-6A..still flying, today!!
Marvin Soward
N63Tx(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MHammersmi(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Aerobatic engine installation (fwd) -Reply |
The Ellison I've been running was installed in 1994 and has about 200
hours on it. Previous owner of Sonerai raved about it. It has performed
flawlessly for me the 70 hours I've flown it so far.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "FORREST, GERALD" <gforrest(at)smtplink.Coh.ORG> |
Does anyone have experience or knowledge using the dimple dies from Action Air
parts? I talked to Mr. Anderson on the phone today and he said that his dies
were the same stainless steel set back dies as sold by Cleaveland but at half
the price. Thanks for your advice.
Jerry Forrest RV6
gforrest(at)bricoh.coh.org
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ammeterj(at)ammeterj.seanet.com (John Ammeter) |
>What is the Rocky Mountain carb heat adapter and where do you get it?
>
>
>>>we have a problem with carb ice on our RV6, set up with O-320 150 hp single
>>>venturi MS carb.................any suggestions?
>>>
>>>jhparker(at)epix.net
>>>
>>I have a MS carb in my RV-6 with 150 HP E2A engine. Seem to have no problem
>>with carb ice, even here in the Great Northwet. I do have the Rocky
>>Mountain carb heat adapter and Van's air filter. Under what conditions do
>>you find carb ice forming?
>>
>>Regards,
>>
>>John Ammeter
>>ammeterj(at)ammeterj.seanet.com
>>Seattle WA, USA
>>RV-6 N16JA
>>Flying 5 years
>>
>>
>>
>
I think the other responder that mentioned Rick Robbins of Colorado has the
straight skinny. It may not be called the 'Rocky Mountain' carb heat
adapter but I know I got it from somewhere in Colorado.
John Ammeter
ammeterj(at)ammeterj.seanet.com
Seattle WA, USA
RV-6 N16JA
Flying 5 years
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Laboyteaux(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Cambell Hausfield HVLP Sprayers |
I'm interested in maybe purchasing an HVLP paint sprayer, and have seen one
from Cambell Hfausfield advertised in a catolog from Northern Hydraulics.
They have them new and reconditioned. I have also found a local wholesale
tool company that carries them.
Has anyone had any experience with this particular sprayer? Or, are HVLP
sprayers something you should not buy without going for a top of the line
model?
Mark LaBoyteaux
RV-6A
Drilling forward side skins on
fuselage
LaBoyteaux(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JamesCone(at)aol.com |
The symbol is a tilde. It is found on most key boards to the left of the
number one key. On my enhanced keyboard it is the shift position of the key.
Jim Cone
Working on Finishing Kit
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dierks(at)austin.ibm.com |
| Subject: | Where to get Variprime? (fwd) |
Variprime is a Dupont product. Any of your local automotive paint
shops should have it. For, example, I bought mine at 'Ricks Automotive'
which is a small auto parts and paint store.
You mix Variprime 1 part to 1 part activator (616S I think) so you
will need a quart of it also.
They will also usually carry 225S and 226S which is the acid etch
and the alodine if you need/want it. They are about 10.50 a qt.
BTW, it air dries very fast. You can sand it after 1 hour.
I am top coating it after 1 hour. It needs about 24 hours to fully
cure and set.
>
> Hello all,
>
> We are at the beginning of our RV6-Project.
> Our question: Where we can order Variprime?
> Anybody can email me information, where to get Variprime,
> the ordernumbers, prices, faxnumber and so on?
> My email-adress (Germany): Barbara.Bartsch(at)dkrz.d400.de
> By so far and thank you very much, Barbara
>
>
Herman Dierks, Dept. E54S, AWSD Austin, Texas
mail: dierks(at)austin.ibm.com VM: DIERKS at AUSVM6
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 1995 09:48:11 -0600
From: JIM SCHMIDT <JIM.SCHMIDT(at)mail.mei.com>
Subject: RV-List: Fuel Tank Pick up Tube -Reply
I built mine per the plans. Rational is as
follows:
I have a freind with 300 hours on a -6 with
this setup no problems. I also have some
experiece with a pond filter for lawn
sprinklers, that used a screen and another
that used slots. The screen constantly
plugged up or rotted and then did no good.
The slotted pvc pipe has worked for 3 years
with no problem. They also use slotted pipe
for wells.
The slots may let some crud through but the
screen in the engine should be changed at
every annual. It is better to have flow than
no flow in my book. Easier to clean the
screen at the engine.
>>> Chester Razer
11/21/95 11:58am >>>
I'd be interested to hear some comments,
good or bad, from builders who have
constructed fuel tank pick up lines as shown
in the plans (the 3/8" tube with the crimped
end and slots cut in the top part of the
tubing). I'm constructing mine now and I
can't decide to construct as per the plans
or use finger screens on the end of the
pickup tube.
Chet Razer crazer(at)midwest.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | hovan(at)apple.com (John Hovan) |
Hi All,
If you haven't visited the RV web page I keep in the past month or so, come
and visit. I have added over 20 color photo's and numerous documents to
the page.
New info includes.....
Harmon Rocket built by Mark Frederick
Mark Fredericks RV-4
Tony Bingelis engine and firewall photo's
Pictures of my RV-6A project.
John Gesin's RV-3
Bruce Olivers RV-6 project.
Marvin Sowards retirement card. (No phone number listed. :-)
and much more. So, stop in and check out all the new info....
http://atlantis.austin.apple.com/people.pages/jhovan/home.html
Happy Thanksgiving!
John
hovan(at)apple.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ted_boudreaux(at)om.cv.hp.com |
| Subject: | Arbor Press for Rivet Squeezing? |
Item Subject: cc:Mail Text
Has anyone out there tried using an arbor press to squeeze or dimple?
It seems like it would be pretty simple to drill it to fit the needed
rivet sets, and you would have a 6 inch yoke. I found a press
available from General Tool & Supply Co. in Portland, OR for $39.95.
Any comments?
Ted Boudreaux
RV6A Still buying tools. 8'x4' work table built. Empennage kit
sitting idle (did cut lightening holes). Getting anxious. Gonna bite
the bullet and actually START this thing!
ted_boudreaux@hp-pcd.hp.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gil(at)rassp.hac.com (Gil Alexander) |
| Subject: | Sterling Paint Q. |
RV-listers,
At our last chapter EAA meeting, we had a guest speaker
from Sterling Paints.
Allowing for sales hype (which was actually very low), they say
that their paint is the paint used on corporate and airline jets. It is a
different type of polyurethane, being a polyester-based polyurethane, not
an acrylic-based polyurethane like the "Imron" type of paints.
The demo samples they had were very impressive, with a _very_ deep
'wet look' finish with NO clear topcoat. Flexibility was also impressive,
with paint samples on thin card being able to be wrapped around a pencil!
They also had a nicely written avaition application guide.
List prices were high, but they (DETCO Distributors in Newport
Beach, CA) give a 40% discount to EAA members, bringing the cost down to
around $120 for 2 gallons of sprayable color. I think this is the same
cost range (or slightly less) as Imron.
My Question is:
Has anyone used this paint, or know anyone who has it on a plane?
Happy thanksgiving ...
Gil Alexander, RV6A, #20701 ... newly elected (volunteered?) Tech. Counselor
for EAA Chapter 40
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rich Klee <Rich_Klee(at)ccm.fm.intel.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Arbor Press for Rivet Squeezing? |
Text item:
You have to realize that squeezing implies a steady force (in the z direction )
after the dies are lined up with the rivet. This unfortunately requires fairly
rigid restriction as far as lateral movement of the dies as you are squeezing
them. I don't think that a $39.95 arbor press is going to do that. But you can
use that press to "drive" the rivet.
If you truly want to squeeze the rivet, especially -6s, you either can get
(rent) a large pneumatic squeezer, or use a hydraulic press (12 ton for $99.95)
and a 4x4 to "stabilize" the press arbor. The results were very consistent. If
someone wants to know more details, I can put some together.
Rich Klee, 6A fuselage
rich_klee(at)ccm.fm.intel.com
Has anyone out there tried using an arbor press to squeeze or dimple?
It seems like it would be pretty simple to drill it to fit the needed
rivet sets, and you would have a 6 inch yoke. I found a press
available from General Tool & Supply Co. in Portland, OR for $39.95.
Any comments?
Ted Boudreaux
RV6A Still buying tools. 8'x4' work table built. Empennage kit
sitting idle (did cut lightening holes). Getting anxious. Gonna bite
the bullet and actually START this thing!
ted_boudreaux@hp-pcd.hp.com
Text item: External Message Header
The following mail header is for administrative use
and may be ignored unless there are problems.
***IF THERE ARE PROBLEMS SAVE THESE HEADERS***.
Subject: RV-List: Arbor Press for Rivet Squeezing?
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 95 09:43:01 -0800
From: om.cv.hp.com!ted_boudreaux(at)matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Sterling Paint Q. |
| From: | "Earl Brabandt" <cwbraban(at)ichips.intel.com> |
> My Question is:
>
> Has anyone used this paint, or know anyone who has it on a plane?
>
I can't tell you very much about it other than my dad had his Mooney
painted by Aero Air in Hillsboro, OR with it and it looked very nice.
He was pleased.
Cal
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Sterling Paint Q. |
I used Sterling poly paint on my -6 (completed 12/92). I shot it myself (no
prior painting experience) and get compliments on a regular basis. A friend
in the boat repair business recommended it to me, saying it was easier to
shoot than other polyurethanes, and covered better. I found this to be the
case, as I used Awlgrip for my trim, and it was much trickier(it wanted to
run easily and did'nt cover as well). I have no experience with other polys
like Imron, so can't offer a comparison beyond this. It's not cheap, but I
would use it again.
Will be at Sun 'n Fun again next April if anyone wants to see it.
Dana Breda
RV6AV8R(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
RV6AV8R(at)aol.com
Dana M. Breda
4015 Stillwell Drive
Winston-Salem, NC 27106
910-924-6038
Have completed an RV-6. First flown 12/92. Now has 142 hours on it(not many,
but I live 35 miles from the airport). O-320-D1A, Fixed Sensenich prop,
Sterling paint. Happy to talk RV's anytime!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | crazer(at)midwest.net (Chester Razer) |
| Subject: | Fuel Tank Drain Valve RV6A |
I have a ? regarding the assembly of the fuel tank drain valve (CAV-110)
and the drain flange (VA-112). Upon preliminary assembly, both valves will
only thread into their respective flanges two or three turns before
stopping dead. The picture in the plans shows the valve threaded
COMPLETELY into the flange. Before I use a tap & die on the two parts, is
there a reason the two parts thread so shallow?
Also, is teflon tape or some other pipe compound used or needed after final
assembly.
Chet Razer
crazer(at)midwest.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John E. Brick" <p01315(at)psilink.com> |
Jon Johanson, the Aussie that flew his RV-4 from Brisbane to Oshkosh,
had fuel in the fiberglass tips, 8.7 gal ea., among other places. That
alone is more than a 50 percent in the standard 32 gal. I gotta have that.
Any custom tanks available yet? Any pros / cons on this?
John Brick
Should be ordering wing kit soon.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WCannon313(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Weight and balance for a RV-6 with O-360 and a C/S |
I am approaching the engine installation phase of my project that will be
setup with the O-360 and a Hartzell C/S prop. I would appreciate any
experience that any one has regarding the weight and balance considerations
of this setup. Did it work with the battery in the standard place? Did you
move it and if so where and how was it mounted? Did you have to add ballast?
Thanks,
Walt Cannon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jperri(at)interserv.com |
Another query for the group. I have wing tip mounted landing lights on my RV-6.
What have you found to be the best setting for these? I have tried setting the
left hand light to to focus on the runway during flare and the right for the
approach. This still does not seem to work great. Only soultion that sounds
right is another light in the cowl. Some locals tell me that with the vibration
induced here, bulb life will be extremely short. Any thoughts?
John Perri CFII RV-6 350 hrs.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tedd McHenry <tedd(at)idacom.hp.com> |
Hello All:
I've already sent a few messages on this list, but only recently figured
out that my introductory message went somewhere else. So, here it is
again.
I'm a former Canadian air force pilot with a civilian commercial license,
but I no longer earn my living as a pilot. I'm a mechanical engineer, and
I raced formula cars intensively for about five years. I've been
interested in homebuilt airplanes, and especially RVs, since before I
joined the air force. Now that I have to pay to fly, I'm more interested
than ever!
I've had one flight in an RV, which was in an RV-4. I had heard people
say that RVs handled like jets, and wanted to see if it were true. It is
true! Although the speed obviously makes a difference, the RV-4 had
tactile handling qualities that were very similar to the Canadair Tutor
jets I flew as a QFI. The only other piston aircraft I have experience in
is the Beech Muskateer, which does not compare favourably to an RV!
No, I don't have any immediate plans to start building, but I am working
on it!
Tedd McHenry
tedd(at)idacom.hp.com
Compuserve: 75320,215
http://www.idacom.hp.com/web_doc2/People/internal/tedd/index.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Shirley Hiscock" <shiscock(at)fox.nstn.ca> |
| Subject: | honeycomb floorboards |
I'm presently installing the floorboards on my RV-4. I'm considering using
3/8" kevlar/honeycomb instead of the std .025 and .040. Does anyone know
if much of the aircraft's torsional strength comes from the floorboards?
Has anyone already installed these in a -4 or -6?
Please be gentle, this is my first time...
Mike Hiscock
Nova Scotia, Can
shiscock(at)fox.nstn.ca
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DerFlieger(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Tank Drain Valve RV6A |
>Also, is teflon tape or some other pipe compound used or needed after final
>assembly.
>
>
Tap them so you can screw the valves in. Careful with teflon tape
so it CANNOT get into your tanks, or anything else you might use it on. Some
will recommend using a permatex or Proseal type sealer instead.
Jim Stugart
DerFlieger(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jperri(at)interserv.com |
Thanks I'll consider myself lucky...
JMP
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tedd McHenry <tedd(at)idacom.hp.com> |
Hello All:
I've already sent a few messages on this list, but only recently figured
out that my introductory message went somewhere else. So, here it is
again.
I'm a former Canadian air force pilot with a civilian commercial license,
but I no longer earn my living as a pilot. I'm a mechanical engineer, and
I raced formula cars intensively for about five years. I've been
interested in homebuilt airplanes, and especially RVs, since before I
joined the air force. Now that I have to pay to fly, I'm more interested
than ever!
I've had one flight in an RV, which was in an RV-4. I had heard people
say that RVs handled like jets, and wanted to see if it were true. It is
true! Although the speed obviously makes a difference, the RV-4 had
tactile handling qualities that were very similar to the Canadair Tutor
jets I flew as a QFI. The only other piston aircraft I have experience in
is the Beech Muskateer, which does not compare favourably to an RV!
No, I don't have any immediate plans to start building, but I am working
on it!
Tedd McHenry
tedd(at)idacom.hp.com
Compuserve: 75320,215
http://www.idacom.hp.com/web_doc2/People/internal/tedd/index.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BPattonsoa(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | SUPER RV-6 FUES. STEEL JIG - FOR SALE |
I am almost ready to sell my fues. jig. I purchased it from another builder
and will sell it at the same price as I paid. This thing should be capable
of building -6 fueselages for the next 100 years, so it would be a perfect
investment for a builders group.
Details:
Construction: Runners made from 2X4 Square Steel tube
Firewall /legs: 2X4 Square steel tube
Cross members, at each former: 1X2 Square steel tube
Accuracy: One cross member requires a .020 shim, rest are perfect.
Weight: A whole bunch. With legs at each end, you can sit on the middle and
there is zero deflection.
Location: San Luis Obispo, California.
Shipping: Not easy, or included in the price. It got to me on the top of a
pickup with a lumber rack
Price: $350 What I paid, and what the builder paid for materials.
Availibility: 2-3 weeks.
Bruce Patton
(805) 544-1052
Fues in jig, wings on, l.g. mounts in, etc.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David A. Barnhart" <barnhart(at)crl.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Arbor Press for Rivet Squeezing? |
On Wed, 22 Nov 1995 ted_boudreaux(at)om.cv.hp.com wrote:
> Has anyone out there tried using an arbor press to squeeze or dimple?
I experimented with using an arbor press to squeeze rivets, and it did
not work well at all. The press's 'piston' had so much side play that
the rivets would just clinch over.
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
rv-6 sn 23744
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RFlunker(at)aol.com |
Hi Everyone.
I have a question about the skin strenghteners in the Rudder. I'm having
difficulty determining the distance of how close the strengther is to be to
the bend line (trailing edge) of the rudder. Can anyone help me out? Sorry
if I missed it on the plans..
Thanks in advance.
Hope everyone had a happy T-day.
Dick Flunker
Allen, Tx
RV-6A, VS done, HS ready to rivet Skins.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DerFlieger(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Arbor Press for Rivet Squeezing? |
> Has anyone out there tried using an arbor press to squeeze or dimple?
> It seems like it would be pretty simple to drill it to fit the needed
> rivet sets, and you would have a 6 inch yoke. I found a press
> available from General Tool & Supply Co. in Portland, OR for $39.95.
> Any comments?
>
>
> Ted Boudreaux
>
We have successfully used it to upset the main spar rivets. Drill a hole
into the bottom plate (anvil, I guess its called) and insert the female rivet
die. Position the spar and apply pressure to the rivet by holding the press
handle down tight. Smack the bar (?) with a 4 pound hammer, maybe three or
four times while applying pressure on the press handle. Beautiful rivets! It
is a two or three man job using a little jigging to keep everything lined up
properly. Takes a couple of hours to do a spar. Don't know if the press is
useful for anything else though.
Jim Stugart
DerFlieger(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ChrisL3064(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Weight and balance for a RV-6 with O-360 and a C/S |
I have an RV-6 with a Lycoming 0-360-A1A and a Hartzell CS prop--in fact I
went with a longer prop--74" verses 72" that most people run. I have a light
weight starter, a 35 amp alternator and an oil cooler mounted on the rear
baffle. I did install a full swivel tail wheel and mounted my ELT behind the
rear baggage partition. I have full instruments and radios. Have a 35 amp
sealed battery installed in the usual position called for in the plans.
Empty weight - 1050 with a CG of 69.2.(Unpainted so far!)Guess what? There
isn't any way you can load the airplane out of the CG! You certainly have to
pay attention to gross weight and baggage limits but you will not get the CG
out of range.One of the nice things about an RV-6! Hope this
helps!
ChrisL3064(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Strengtheners |
<951123212508_88186494(at)mail06.mail.aol.com>
| From: | Ed Weber <ebw(at)hpfiebw.fc.hp.com> |
> I have a question about the skin strenghteners in the Rudder. I'm having
> difficulty determining the distance of how close the strengther is to be to
> the bend line (trailing edge) of the rudder. Can anyone help me out? Sorry
> if I missed it on the plans..
My RV6 construction manual has the stiffeners 3/16 from the trailing
edge. Figure 6-14.
--
Ed Weber Hewlett-Packard Company
voice: (303) 229-3241 ICBD Product Design
fax: (303) 229-6580 3404 E Harmony Road, MS 72
email: ebw(at)fc.hp.com Fort Collins, Co 80525
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "JAMES E. AYERS" <102337.2252(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Tank Pick Up Tube |
I used a pick up tube configuration on my RV-3 that an IA recommended.
I used a tube bender to form a bend up at the end of the tube that goes to the
bottom rear
corner of the tank. I then cut the bend off of the tube even with the top
surface of the
tube. This forms an elliptical hole at the top of the tube, and acts just like
the saw cuts
that are recommended. That is, the fuel is being picked up from a surface above
the
bottom of the tank. My experience has been that this picks up the fuel that is
above the
tube, but leaves the small amount below the tube level in the tank.
I mounted a F391 flush quick drain in the back root corner of the fuel tank next
to the fuel
pick up tube, in place of the quick drain called for in the plans (The only
advantage to not
having a kit available (1975)). The problem with the F391 quick drain (used on
Mooney)
is that the drain holes are about 3/4" above the drain mounting surface. I made
an
aluminum symmetrical airfoil fitting to mount the quick drain, so the drain hole
is even
with the bottom of the tank.
I have N/C machined symmetrical airfoil (NACA) aluminum fittings for the F391-18
quick drain (F391-18 available from Aircraft Spruce), if anyone just has to have
the
cleanest aircraft possible. The flange on the fitting mounts inside the fuel
tank for a
sealing surface.
Jim Ayers
LOM RV-3 (Running great.)
102337.2252(at)compuserve.com
________________________________________________________________________________
Hello,
I am the Manager of Tool Design and Ground Support Equipment at Hughes
Space Corp., in El Segundo, CA (El Segundo is in the Los Angeles metro area).
I am also an RV-4 builder. For those of you who don't know, Hughes is
(among other things) the world's largest maker of communication and
navigation satellites.
My group currently has thirty-five people in it and I am looking to add
three more by mid-February '96. I am looking for Tool Engrs. or people who
have relevant experience that I can train to become Tool Engrs. The job
entails designing fixturing to support the manufacture and testing of
spacecraft and supporting the fabrication and first use of this fixturing.
This requires a responsible, smart, innovative, motivated individual -- in
other words, an RV builder. I feel there are probably some RV List members
who would be good candidates for these positions. Here are the
qualifications I am looking for:
Position 1 (two spots available)-
BSME or 10 yrs. of experience in tooling or manufacturing environment.
Must understand DFMA process. Must be comfortable with basic physics (cg
calculations and effect on stability of structures) and stress analysis.
Must be computer literate and be versed in Micro. Word and Excel. Must
have min. 1000 hrs. using AutoCAD R12/13. Must be versed in geometrical
tolerancing. Must be good at interfacing with machine shops, and mfg. assy.
personnel.
Position 2 (one spot available) -
BSME or 5 yrs. of experience in tooling or manufacturing environment.
Must understand DFMA process. Must be comfortable with basic physics (cg
calculations and effect on stability of structures). Must be computer
literate. Must have worked with AutoCAD R12/13. Must be versed in
geometrical tolerancing. Must be good at interfacing with machine shops, and
mfg. assy. personnel.
If you are interested in these positions please fax your resume to:
Ted Lumpkin
Hughes Space Corp.
310-364-8013
Make sure you use a cover sheet. Your resume should include references
and salary history.
If you have questions about the positions please e-mail me directly at -
tlump(at)aol.com.
Don't dawdle!
Thanks,
Ted
RV-4, 180hp, CS prop.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bcos(at)ix.netcom.com (William Costello ) |
| Subject: | Re: Now Hiring NOT! |
Dear Ted,
Sorry, but IMHO I don't think the fact that you are an RV-4 owner gives
you a pass to use our group as an International recruiting channel for
Hughes.
Bill Costello
RV-6 empennage
bcos(at)ix.netcom.com
Chicago
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tedd McHenry <tedd(at)idacom.hp.com> |
>
> Dear Ted,
>
> Sorry, but IMHO I don't think the fact that you are an RV-4 owner gives
> you a pass to use our group as an International recruiting channel for
> Hughes.
>
> Bill Costello
> RV-6 empennage
> bcos(at)ix.netcom.com
> Chicago
>
Ted:
For what it's worth, I think you've found a clever and intelligent way to
look for people with the right qualifications and experience. If I had
the relevant qualifications and experience, I'd certainly appreciate it.
Being out of work isn't going to help anyone build an RV (unless he already
doesn't need the money).
Tedd McHenry
Still trying to find the money
tedd(at)idacom.hp.com
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ward(at)snowcrest.net (STEVE WARD) |
| Subject: | Re: Now Hiring YES!! |
>Dear Ted,
>
>Sorry, but IMHO I don't think the fact that you are an RV-4 owner gives
>you a pass to use our group as an International recruiting channel for
>Hughes.
>
>Well it looks like you must have a good job and have everything you need
and no time to read that kind of trash you know about jobs. Anyone anytime
can end up without a job and it creates a lot of problems. Say your just
about ready to finish your RV and the jobs goes like a open can of MEK. That
would be a nice time to see a listing like that on the list. Maybe we should
thank him instead of the Flame ?##%!@#^#.
Thanks Steve
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dahl(at)oslonett.no (Nobody) |
| Subject: | Wingtip antennas |
I realize this subject may have been discussed to death before I joined the
list, but could you please share your experience about wingtip antennas?
Wingtip antennas are of course a compromise between reduced drag and reduced
signals in at least some directions. I would be interested to know more
about the "real life" performance of these installations.
I have read the information from Van`s but still feel some more information
would be useful.
This information would be very helpful for a friend of mine who just needs
to add an antenna and some paint to complete his clean and beautiful (even
in its veri primered finish) RV-4.
Best regards,
Espen Dahl, Norway
Working on the left elevator...Will my RV-4 be completed by the year 2000?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "JAMES E. AYERS" <102337.2252(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing Tip Antenna's |
>Espen Dahl said,
> (stuff cut)
>Wingtip antennas are of course a compromise between reduced drag and reduced
>signals in at least some directions. I would be interested to know more
>about the "real life" performance of these installations.
There is a retired antenna technician from TRW (in California) who designed a
VOR antenna for the wing tip of the Thorp T-18. I met him through a mutual
friend, and was his biggest customer (having bought at least 14 antennas, and no
they are not all on my rv-3. They are scattered throughout Southern California
in
rv-3's, -4's, and -6's (or -6a's if you look at the fuselage closely enough to
distinguish the difference)).
Lancair found out that this antenna, modified for their wingtip by the
technician,
provided a longer VOR range than any other antenna the Lancair test pilot had
ever used. Lancair's initial order was for 100 antennas.
This wingtip VOR antenna is advertised in the Aircraft Spruce catalog.
There is also a COM antenna which can be mounted on the top of the vertical
stabilizer. I have one in a P-51H style vertical stabilizer (VS) cap on my
rv-3.
Pictures of my rv-3 with this VS cap and the LOM M332A engine are supposed to
be showing up soon in the "FLUG" (sp?) magazine.
Please feel free to contact me directly about the VOR and COM antennas. I have
both available, also. I hope to have a fiberglass VS cap available for the rv-4
and
rv-6 in the near future. (I only slightly hesitate to mention that this VS COM
cap
would eliminate the, so called, rv-6 "tail wag".)
Jim Ayers
LOM RV-3 (Long Nose/Tall Tail) BTW, the VS COM cap is not needed on the
RV-3 with the LOM engine. Also, the white antenna behind the canopy on my
RV-3 is a LORAN C antenna, which is coming off shortly. LORAN C is nice,
but GPS is real nice. And the GPS antenna fits under the canopy.
102337.2252(at)compuserve.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | alanw(at)netspace.net.au (Alan Williams) |
| Subject: | Re: Strengtheners |
>Hi Everyone.
>
>I have a question about the skin strenghteners in the Rudder. I'm having
>difficulty determining the distance of how close the strengther is to be to
>the bend line (trailing edge) of the rudder. Can anyone help me out? Sorry
>if I missed it on the plans..
>
>Thanks in advance.
>
>Hope everyone had a happy T-day.
>
>Dick Flunker
>Allen, Tx
>RV-6A, VS done, HS ready to rivet Skins.
>
>
>
Dick,
I used 3/16" gap between the stiffeners and the trailing edge on the rudder
(same as the elevators). Drawing 4a shows this detail.
Note that the first rivet is 3/4" from the trailing edge.
Hope this helps.
Alan Williams
Melbourne Australia
RV6A - working on wings.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Now Hiring YES!! |
____________________________________________________________________________
>Dear Ted,
>
>Sorry, but IMHO I don't think the fact that you are an RV-4 owner gives
>you a pass to use our group as an International recruiting channel for
>Hughes.
>
>Well it looks like you must have a good job and have everything you need
and no time to read that kind of trash you know about jobs. Anyone anytime
can end up without a job and it creates a lot of problems. Say your just
about ready to finish your RV and the jobs goes like a open can of MEK. That
would be a nice time to see a listing like that on the list. Maybe we should
thank him instead of the Flame ?##%!@#^#.
Thanks Steve
_______________________________________________________________________________
I agree with Steve. If a posting is of interest to ONE RV builder, I'm glad to
see it here.
Gordon Pratt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RFlunker(at)aol.com |
Thanks.
I must have been tired when I was looking for that spec since I see it now
very clearly. Thanks...
---------------------
From: netspace.net.au!alanw(at)matronics.com (Alan Williams)
Date: 95-11-24 19:31:15 EST
>Hi Everyone.
>
>I have a question about the skin strenghteners in the Rudder. I'm having
>difficulty determining the distance of how close the strengther is to be to
>the bend line (trailing edge) of the rudder. Can anyone help me out? Sorry
>if I missed it on the plans..
>
>Thanks in advance.
>
>Hope everyone had a happy T-day.
>
>Dick Flunker
>Allen, Tx
>RV-6A, VS done, HS ready to rivet Skins.
>
>
>
Dick,
I used 3/16" gap between the stiffeners and the trailing edge on the rudder
(same as the elevators). Drawing 4a shows this detail.
Note that the first rivet is 3/4" from the trailing edge.
Hope this helps.
Alan Williams
Melbourne Australia
RV6A - working on wings.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DerFlieger(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Weight and balance for a RV-6 with O-360 and a C/S |
> Empty weight - 1050 with a CG of 69.2.(Unpainted so far!)Guess what? There
>isn't any way you can load the airplane out of the CG! You certainly have to
>pay attention to gross weight and baggage limits but you will not get the CG
>out of range.One of the nice things about an RV-6! Hope
this
>helps!
>
Numbers for my 6 are quite similar to yours. However I grossed mine at 1800
pounds. Properly loaded, when the fuel burns down to about 5 or 6 gallons,
the weight is about 1600 pounds and the cg is near the aft limit. It is
quite stable, but I don't like the feel of aft limit cg.
My
only problem related to the heavy engine/governor/prop/battery in normal
place, was that when lightly loaded I ran out of elevator trim on final. I
couldn't trim to anything less than 90 to 100 mph. I installed 10 pounds of
lead (bolted down) just under the vertical stab. This fixed it so I can now
trim to about 80.
Jim Stugart
DerFlieger(at)aol.com
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gwhite(at)niagara.com (gary white) |
| Subject: | Re: Now Hiring YES!! |
>____________________________________________________________________________
>>Dear Ted,
>>
>>Sorry, but IMHO I don't think the fact that you are an RV-4 owner gives
>>you a pass to use our group as an International recruiting channel for
>>Hughes.
>>
>>Well it looks like you must have a good job and have everything you need
>and no time to read that kind of trash you know about jobs. Anyone anytime
>can end up without a job and it creates a lot of problems. Say your just
>about ready to finish your RV and the jobs goes like a open can of MEK. That
>would be a nice time to see a listing like that on the list. Maybe we should
>thank him instead of the Flame ?##%!@#^#.
>
>Thanks Steve
>_______________________________________________________________________________
>
>I agree with Steve. If a posting is of interest to ONE RV builder, I'm
glad to
>see it here.
>
>Gordon Pratt
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
------
I agree !! This is a great place to hire someone for aerospace jobs. Keep up
the good work Ted !! Innovation is great, don't stifle it.
gwhite(at)niagara.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bcos(at)ix.netcom.com (William Costello ) |
| Subject: | Empennage Trailing Edge |
Hi Folks,
A friend of mine who is also building an RV-6 maintains that the
construction manual strongly implies (if not outright stating) that the
radius of the rudder and elevator trailing edges should be 3/16 inch.
I went by the Orndorff tapes which definitely state that they are 1/8
inch.
My friend looked at mine and said they look identical to his, so it
possibly doesn't make too much difference which you use, but perhaps
input from the more seasoned builders here (and those who might have
checked with Vans) would dismiss any doubts that might arise with other
builders.
Of course, there is also the possibility that the outside radius is
about 3/16 and the inside radius about 1/8 -- haven't converted the
thickness to run the numbers with any thinning of the metal due to the
bend.
Anybody have any ideas on this?
Bill Costello
Chicago
bcos(at)ix.netcom.com
RV-6 finishing right elevator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ChrisL3064(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Weight and balance for a RV-6 with O-360 and a C/S |
Thanks for the info. Don't know about the 1800# gross---as I'ved said before
if you are going to go outside the designer's limits, you're on your own!
With a gross of 1600# as per the design specs, I can't figure out any kind of
loading, fuel burn, unusual weight, etc. that will put the CG out of range.
Most rearward CG I can get is 76.4. Flies very well but wouldn't recommend
doing spins!
Bottom line--I think the heavier engine-prop combination is no problem with
no need to change battery location, etc..
ChrisL3064(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jean LB <101351.2343(at)compuserve.com> |
Matt,
I built in 1985, a MONI motorglider, that is currently grounded, after 350 H
flying,due to engine failure. ( I would like to find a brand new KFM 107ER MAXI
engine , from an aborted kit of Moni...!)
I began an RV6 : tail completed, and fuselage is on the jig.
I am recently on compuserve, and ound your rv list, via Hovan's home page.
I am interested to read the questions\answers of other rv homebuilders, about
their project.Sure it will be useful on mine !
Thank you for maintaining RV list
Jean.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David A. Barnhart" <barnhart(at)crl.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Empennage Trailing Edge |
On Fri, 24 Nov 1995, William Costello wrote:
> Hi Folks,
>
> A friend of mine who is also building an RV-6 maintains that the
> construction manual strongly implies (if not outright stating) that the
> radius of the rudder and elevator trailing edges should be 3/16 inch.
> I went by the Orndorff tapes which definitely state that they are 1/8
> inch.
The plans show the radius to be 3/32, not 1/8 or 3/16. (Page 7a,
Trailing Edge Detail). If you use the Orndorff method, your radius is
only off 1/32-inch. The airplane will never know the difference. The
thing I REALLY liked about George Orndorff's method was the 1/8-inch dowel
rod used to reinforce the skin during the bend. It practically
guarantees that you will get a nice straight bend with no kinks.
BEst Regards,
Dave Barnhart
rv-6 sn 23744
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | J.Ken_Hitchmough(at)magic.ca (J.Ken Hitchmough) |
| Subject: | Re Prop bolt torque |
Thanks for the replies re prop bolt torque. There's still the question of
"what the heck's a crowsfoot socket". Just for your info I'm a Brit and a
wrench to me is something you do to your neck in violent sports...now a
spanner, well that's a real tool.
I suspect that with what I'm guessing one of these is, that the simple formula
would obviously apply, however, if the extension is significant, then we
really don't have a rigid arm and the moment is not really about the bolt
head. That's were I think the not so simple formula comes in to the picture.
So, what IS a crowsfoot socket?
Ken
--
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Magic Online Services Toronto Inc. (416) 591-6490
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Crowsfoot "spanner"... |
I would guess a crowsfoot to you would be like the end of a spanner, very
short, with a square drive hole for a ratchet (or torque wrench) handle to
fit into. A ratchet spanner, if you will .
Sensenich describes a method for figuring the "squeeze" applied to the hub,
figuring bolt thread pitch, hub thickness, and number of turns on the nut to
get the correct squeeze on the wood, and correct stretch on the bolt. Check
your prop often! Mike at Aymar-Demuth gives very thorough instructions with
his props.
Rgds,
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Curt Reimer <Curt_Reimer(at)MBnet.MB.CA> |
| Subject: | Re: Empennage Trailing Edge |
On Fri, 24 Nov 1995, William Costello wrote:
> A friend of mine who is also building an RV-6 maintains that the
> construction manual strongly implies (if not outright stating) that the
> radius of the rudder and elevator trailing edges should be 3/16 inch.
> I went by the Orndorff tapes which definitely state that they are 1/8
> inch.
On RV-6 plan 5a, there is a detail drawing called "Trim hinge and End
Detail" or some such thing. This shows the elevator trim tab trailing edge
radius to be 3/32 and a written note says this is typical for both
elevators and rudder trailing edge.
Now if I remember correctly, the Orndorf video calls for a 1/8 dowel rod
to be used as a bending mandrel inside the trailing edge. A 1/8 dowel has a
1/16 radius. The skin is .016 which is about 1/64, making the total
radius 5/64 instead of 6/64 (3/32) as called for in the plans, but it's
pretty close and you're going to bet a bit of springback after you bend
anyway. The only problem I have with the video is they used a
wooden dowel which is going to get crushed somewhat by the force of the
bending brake. I elected to use 1/8 music wire as I had some lying
around.
Curt Reimer
Building RV-6 second wing.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bcos(at)ix.netcom.com (William Costello ) |
| Subject: | Re: Empennage Trailing Edge |
You wrote:
>
>On Fri, 24 Nov 1995, William Costello wrote:
>
>> A friend of mine who is also building an RV-6 maintains that the
>> construction manual strongly implies (if not outright stating) that
the
>> radius of the rudder and elevator trailing edges should be 3/16
inch.
>> I went by the Orndorff tapes which definitely state that they are
1/8
>> inch.
>
>On RV-6 plan 5a, there is a detail drawing called "Trim hinge and End
>Detail" or some such thing. This shows the elevator trim tab trailing
edge
>radius to be 3/32 and a written note says this is typical for both
>elevators and rudder trailing edge.
>
>Now if I remember correctly, the Orndorf video calls for a 1/8 dowel
rod
>to be used as a bending mandrel inside the trailing edge. A 1/8 dowel
has a
>1/16 radius. The skin is .016 which is about 1/64, making the total
>radius 5/64 instead of 6/64 (3/32) as called for in the plans, but
it's
>pretty close and you're going to bet a bit of springback after you
bend
>anyway. The only problem I have with the video is they used a
>wooden dowel which is going to get crushed somewhat by the force of
the
>bending brake. I elected to use 1/8 music wire as I had some lying
>around.
>
>
>Curt Reimer
>Building RV-6 second wing.
>
***************************
Thanks much to the 4 guys who answered my question. Anyone who is
working on the empennage and has not bent the trailing edges can also
benefit from the ideas and explanations. It looks like the bottom line
is that, although a 1/8 inch rod theoretically gives a radius 1/32"
larger than called for, it will be very close (and who can tell a
difference of 1/32 there?), so the Orndorff recommendation is the way
to go. I couldn't find an 1/8 wooden dowel that looked straight
enough, so I also used a steel rod. Didn't even think of the wood
crushing slightly.
Bill Costello
RV-6 on empennage
bcos(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RFlunker(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Rudder Rivet Spacing |
All this Rudder/Elevator talk is very timely for me as I'm working on the
rudder. I'm about to determine my rivet spacing for the rudder stiffeners.
Van's directions indicates two acceptable methods. Those being to use the 1
1/2" spacing and adjusting the spacing near the trailing edge to end at the
3/4" mark, versus establishing the start and end positions and then use a fan
to equally space the rivets. I'm curious if anyone has determined any
advantages of one way versus the other, and probably most importantly which
is the more common approach, or which "looks nicer"....
Thanks for your thoughts.
Dick Flunker
RV-6A. RFLUNKER(at)AOL.COM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | steve(at)n45vl.reno.nv.us (Steve Baker) |
| Subject: | Re: Arbor Press for Rivet Squeezing? |
>Avery sells an arber for dimpling and riveting. I have used it for both,
>including my wing spars, and have always been pleased with the very clean
>results.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bobh(at)synopsys.com (Bob Haan) |
| Subject: | Elevator Skin Slots Rod End Bearings |
Has anyone reduced the size of the Elevator Skin Slots for the Rod End
Bearings in order to reduce drag?
Frank Justice's instructions call for some reduction.
I was wondering if anyone else had developed smaller slots to reduce drag
and what the dimensions where.
RV6 working on left elevator,
Bob
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Bob Haan Office 503-531-2366
Pacific Northwest Mobile 503-720-1132
Account Manager FAX 503-690-6906
Synopsys Modeling Group E-mail bobh(at)synopsys.com
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bobh(at)synopsys.com (Bob Haan) |
| Subject: | Priming Platenuts |
Do the platenuts (used to connect rod end bearings to the rudder and
elevator spars) need to be primed? They look like they are plated but I am
not sure.
RV6 starting the Left Elevator,
Bob
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Bob Haan Office 503-531-2366
Pacific Northwest Mobile 503-720-1132
Account Manager FAX 503-690-6906
Synopsys Modeling Group E-mail bobh(at)synopsys.com
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bobh(at)synopsys.com (Bob Haan) |
| Subject: | Cutting out the trim tab |
What tool is best used to cut out the trim tab from the left elevator skin?
RV6 starting Left Elevator,
Bob
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Bob Haan Office 503-531-2366
Pacific Northwest Mobile 503-720-1132
Account Manager FAX 503-690-6906
Synopsys Modeling Group E-mail bobh(at)synopsys.com
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bcos(at)ix.netcom.com (William Costello ) |
| Subject: | Re: Fwd: Re: Hughes Position |
I tried to send the following message a couple of days ago, but my
email server has been acting goofy and I don't think it went through,
so I am sending it again. Sure hope it doesn't go twice. - Bill C.
---- Begin Forwarded Message
From: bcos(at)ix.netcom.com (William Costello )
Subject: Re: Hughes Position
You wrote:
>
>Bill,
> I'm sorry I offended you with my posting identifying job
openings. My
>intention is to make these job openings known to people who would
otherwise
>not hear about them. In addition, the characteristics of the typical
RV
>builder I have met or corresponded with make them excellent candidates
for
November 04, 1995 - November 26, 1995
RV-Archive.digest.vol-au