RV-Archive.digest.vol-av
November 26, 1995 - December 09, 1995
>the jobs. Believe me, hard-working, innovative people with a lot of
>sticktoittiveness do not grow on trees and I'll take them wherever I
can find
>them.
> Perhaps I acted too hastily and should have queried the list to
find out
>whether this type of posting was appropriate. I respect your right to
your
>opinion and would be interested in hearing more of your thoughts on
the
>subject.
>
>Ted
>
Hello Ted,
Thank you for the follow-up.
Some of the responders reacted to my comments as if they were an
attempt to 'flame' you. I certainly hope that you did not take it that
way. In looking at my comment I do not see anything that comes across
as derogatory to you personally or inflammatory, with the possible
exception of the way I changed the title. I was trying to make the
title say what the message was about, so that anyone not interested
could discard the message without having to open it. It the title
implies something inflammatory or derogatory, I apologize.
My idea is simply that I think this channel is for discussing and
spreading information about the selecting, building, flying and
enjoying of RV aircraft.
I realize that employment, especially in this day and age, can be a
very difficult thing. I have been out of work through no choice of my
own during my live. But I feel that the fact that work is a necessity
of life -- as are food, clothing and shelter -- should not open up this
channel to advertisements for such. My opinion, of course.
Now, I have been wrong before in my life -- rarely, of course! I was
waiting for the more seasoned users to comment if they so chose. I
will not mention names because I don't want to put any pressure on
them. I also am NOT calling for a straw poll on people's thoughts. I
think that would waste a lot of channel time and resources. If anyone
strongly desires to give me their opinion, my direct email address will
be below.
So, in response to your request, Ted, those are my thoughts. Again, I
hope you took no personal offense and I wish you luck on finding the
quality of people you are looking for. I am answering this on the open
channel in the hopes that this lengthy response will put the issue to
rest.
Sincerely,
Bill Costello
Chicago
RV-6 on empennage
bcos(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bcos(at)ix.netcom.com (William Costello ) |
| Subject: | Re: Elevator Skin Slots Rod End Bearings |
You wrote:
>
>Has anyone reduced the size of the Elevator Skin Slots for the Rod End
>Bearings in order to reduce drag?
>
>Frank Justice's instructions call for some reduction.
>I was wondering if anyone else had developed smaller slots to reduce
drag and what the dimensions where.
>
>RV6 working on left elevator,
>
>Bob
>
>++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
>Bob Haan Office 503-531-2366
I suspect this size reduction has more to do with looks than with drag
reduction, although there probably is some reduction. I am at that
point on the right elevator and need to decide what I am going to do.
One thing that concerns me is that it will make inspection more
difficult -- out of sight out of mind. I am a little leery of not
seeing anything going on with the bearings. I might cut them just a
little smaller, trying to hide the slots when the elevators are in the
neutral position, but showing the bearings when they are in the full
down position.
Regarding the platenuts, I primed mine and think that most people do.
Mine came with a light oil on them which I used a solvent to remove and
immediately primed. They are a ferrous metal I think and I would be
very uncomfortable not priming them.
I think I will use my Dremel tool to very carefully (hence, slowly) cut
out the trim tab. Since some of the metal is cut away from the
perimeter of the piece removed, it is critical to get the edge of the
hole in the elevator as neat as possible. I think I will start with a
small drilled hole at the inside corners (top and bottom) of the cutout
to radius it. I'll probably use one or two thicknesses of duct tape
along the elevator edge of the cut as insurance against straying away
from the cut mark.
Bob, I'll be interested in following other responses to your questions
here, as well as any reactions you have to my thoughts. Best of luck.
Bill Costello
RV-6 finishing right elevator
Chicago
bcos(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DerFlieger(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Elevator Skin Slots Rod End Bearings |
(Bob Haan) writes:
>
>I was wondering if anyone else had developed smaller slots to reduce drag
>and what the dimensions where.
>
At Oshkosh I saw an RV6 with many drag redution features. He used clear
stickyback mylar over the end bearing access slots. I think that material
can be obtained at a hobby shop. He (she ?) also used it in several other
places.
Jim Stugart
DerFlieger(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tedd McHenry <tedd(at)idacom.hp.com> |
| Subject: | Re Prop bolt torque |
>
> So, what IS a crowsfoot socket?
>
> Ken
>
Ken:
A crowfoot wrench is like the head of an open-end wrench (or spanner!)
with a square drive where the rest of the wrench would normally be. Looks
like this:
_____
/___ \____
| _ |
| |_||
___| ____|
\_____/
You can get a set of good quality crowfoot wrenches from Sears for not
much money (I don't remember what I paid for mine). You can probably buy
them individually too, if you want.
I don't have a prop and engine handy to look at, but I was picturing that
you'd use the crowfoot wrench something like this (side view):
_ _
| |____________| |
| |____________| |
| | _______ | |
| | | | | |
| | | | |_| <=== crowfoot wrench
| | | |
| | | |
| | | |
| | | |
| | |_______| <=== prop hub
| |
| |
| |
| |
|_| <=== torque wrench
The formula you require would depend on the orientation of the torque
wrench and the crowfoot wrench.
Tedd McHenry
tedd(at)idacom.hp.com
75320.215(at)compuserve.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bcos(at)ix.netcom.com (William Costello ) |
| Subject: | Re: Elevator Skin Slots Rod End Bearings |
You wrote:
>
synopsys.com!bobh(at)matronics.com
>(Bob Haan) writes:
>
>>
>>I was wondering if anyone else had developed smaller slots to reduce
>>drag and what the dimensions where.
>At Oshkosh I saw an RV6 with many drag redution features. He used
>clear stickyback mylar over the end bearing access slots. I think
>that material can be obtained at a hobby shop. He (she ?) also used
>it in several other places.
>
>Jim Stugart
>DerFlieger(at)aol.com
>
Hey, that is a very interesting idea. And you could place the sticky
mylar back-to-back in the gap area to avoid dirt collection. If you
decide to do this, you could cut the gaps full-size or only slightly
undersize and try the mylar after you've flown it a while and under
controlled conditions to see what gain in speed you get.
Bill Costello
RV-6 finishing right elevator
bcos(at)ix.netcom.com
Chicago
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MHammersmi(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Re Prop bolt torque |
I suppose if a wrench is a spanner, then a crowfoot is basically the open end
of the spanner that fits the nut. The short area behind the open end of the
spanner has a square hole in it which is where you attach the ratchet as used
to turn sockets or in this case is where you attach the crowfoot spanner to
the torque wrench. Hope this helps.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Cliff Carpenter <70633.355(at)compuserve.com> |
All
I have a friend here in MN.,not a builder,with a beautiful all black RV-4.While
applying pressure to the canopy,for some unknown reason, the canopy cracked
about 5 inches up from the canopy frame,right-side near the aft crossover
brace.Have heard of others cracking there also.He would like to have it
repaired, like new canopy. Anybody know of someone that would like the job? He
is very particular!
Can reply to: Cliff Carpenter,RV-4,N141CC,4yrs,1150 & going strong!!
Compuserve 70633,355
Internet:ccarpent(at)pressenter.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | crazer(at)midwest.net (Chester Razer) |
| Subject: | Re: Elevator Skin Slots Rod End Bearings |
>Has anyone reduced the size of the Elevator Skin Slots for the Rod End
>Bearings in order to reduce drag?
>
>Frank Justice's instructions call for some reduction.
>
>I was wondering if anyone else had developed smaller slots to reduce drag
>and what the dimensions where.
>
>RV6 working on left elevator,
>
>Bob
>
>++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
>Bob Haan Office 503-531-2366
>Pacific Northwest Mobile 503-720-1132
>Account Manager FAX 503-690-6906
>Synopsys Modeling Group E-mail bobh(at)synopsys.com
>
>++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I cut mine as indicated in the plans and even at that its a chore to
install nuts, washers and bolts when fitting the rudder and elevators to
their respective parts. I guess you can always cut minimal openings and
enlarge them as necessary during fitting.
Chet Razer, building left tank and doing prep to ailerons and flaps.
Chet Razer
crazer(at)midwest.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rudder Rivet Spacing |
<951125224841_116346066(at)mail04.mail.aol.com>
| From: | Jack Abell <abell(at)rand.org> |
I just finished installing my rudder stiffeners. I chose to use equal
spacing for the rivets on each stiffener. I mark the lengthwise centerline
on the stiffener, mark 3/4 in. from each end, and measure between those
marks with an engineer's scale (tenths of inches). I divide that distance
by 1.5 and round up to find the number of intervals. I then divide the
number of intervals into the distance between the two end marks and enter
it into a hand calculator, which I use to determine the distance between
one end rivet and each subsequent rivet mark. I then measure and mark
these distances and drill, clecoing into a sheet of plywood on a flat table
top as I go. Tedious, but the results pleased me. I back-riveted, of
course, using a 1/2 in. steel plate and pieces of 1/2 in. plywood for
support. The whole procedure went very well and the skin is very smooth.
With respect to the trailing edge bend, Van's instructions suggest
positioning the rudder skin with stiffeners installed into the pair of
hinged boards such that the trailing edge is about 1/8 in. from the hinge
and closing the boards so that the skin is squeezed to fit the rudder spar,
R-402. I don't quite understand this since the rudder spar is tapered, but
it seems like this procedure will yield quite a sharp trailing edge. Have
you gotten this far yet? If so, how did you proceed and what were the
results?
Jack Abell
RV-6A Rudder
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JamesCone(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Moni Engines-Answer |
To RV'ers: I tried to send this message to the person who asked the question
about Moni engines but the message was returned saying that the address was
incorrect. In the interest of contacting this individual I am using the
RV-list.
Call Ron Wright (314) 423-5058. He is Mr. Moni. He has several flying and
several others in various stages to assembly. Ron is a very active member of
EAA Chapter 32 in St. Louis and is President Elect for 1996-1997 term. If he
doesn't have an engine, he probably knows where you can get one.
Jim Cone
RV-6A, Working on finishing kit.
jamescone(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gwhite(at)niagara.com (gary white) |
| Subject: | RV6A Project For Sale |
> I am looking for an rv-4 or rv-6 unfinished kit to complete. Anything for
sale in upper New York state or Ontario ? I am in Niagara Falls, Canada.
gwhite(at)niagara.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | alanw(at)netspace.net.au (Alan Williams) |
| Subject: | Re: Cutting out the trim tab |
>What tool is best used to cut out the trim tab from the left elevator skin?
>
>RV6 starting Left Elevator,
>
>Bob
>
>++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
>Bob Haan Office 503-531-2366
>Pacific Northwest Mobile 503-720-1132
>Account Manager FAX 503-690-6906
>Synopsys Modeling Group E-mail bobh(at)synopsys.com
>
>++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
>
>
Bob,
I used combination snips for the long cut across the elevator and a cutting
disc in a Dremel Tool for the short cut including the trailing edge.
The snips are from Avery's ('ANDY' brand part # 52302) and have a straight
edge blade, rather than a serrated edge, which leaves a very clean cut
needing minimum clean-up.
Because there was minimum loss of material at the hinge line it was possible
to refit the trim tab just by marking off the necessary hinge clearance with
a ruler.
This worked fine for me.
Alan Williams
Melbourne Australia
RV6A - Working on wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | HMJW50A(at)prodigy.com (MR TIM A HATFIELD) |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder Rivet Spacing |
Jack wrote With respect to the trailing edge bend, Van's instructions
suggest
positioning the rudder skin with stiffeners installed into the pair
of
hinged boards such that the trailing edge is about 1/8 in. from the
hinge
and closing the boards so that the skin is squeezed to fit the rudder
spar,
R-402. I don't quite understand this since the rudder spar is
tapered, but
it seems like this procedure will yield quite a sharp trailing edge.
Have
you gotten this far yet? If so, how did you proceed and what were
the
results?
Jack I went acording to Vans directions and it was simple to do and
worked very well. I've used it on both elevators, the rudder and both
alirons.
Wish you success.
Cecil Hatfield
On wings RV 6A
in California
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WStucklen(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Tank Pick up Tube |
>>
>>I'd be interested to hear some comments, good or bad, from builders who
>>have constructed fuel tank pick up lines as shown in the plans (the 3/8"
>>tube with the crimped end and slots cut in the top part of the tubing). I'm
>>constructing mine now and I can't decide to construct as per the plans or
>>use finger screens on the end of the pickup tube.
>>
>>Chet Razer
>>crazer(at)midwest.net
>>
>>
>Built mine per plans and have never found much got through to the gascolator
>screen or carb screen. I think its an OK (cheap, direct, lightweight, and
>functional) design.
I agree, and built mine also to plans. But in retrospect, I think that I
would have added the brass finger strainers that Spruce & Specialty has in
their catalog. The strainer in the gascolator and carb should stop any junk
from getting through, but his might stop larger items (like peeling sloshing
compound) from getting into the goscolator screen and plogging it.....
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
wstucklen(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | hovan(at)apple.com (John Hovan) |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder Rivet Spacing |
Hi Dick,
We must be at the same stage of building, becaause I drilled the stiffners
last night to the rudder skin.
I chose to go with the 1 1/2" spacing and then alter near the trailing
edge. There are several RVator articles on the stiffners cracking at the
last rivet near the traling edge. I felt that having the spacing closer at
the trailing edge may help take some of the vibration and flex out of this
area and prevent the cracking. (See the book, "14 Years of the RVator" for
more details)
Also if you haven't bought the RTV yet, Home Depot sells a tube of GE brand
"Aluminum and Metal" silicone. It says non-corrosive on the tube. Other
folks have had good luck with silicone made for aluminum gutters.
thanks,
John
hovan(at)apple.com
>All this Rudder/Elevator talk is very timely for me as I'm working on the
>rudder. I'm about to determine my rivet spacing for the rudder stiffeners.
> Van's directions indicates two acceptable methods. Those being to use the 1
>1/2" spacing and adjusting the spacing near the trailing edge to end at the
>3/4" mark, versus establishing the start and end positions and then use a fan
>to equally space the rivets. I'm curious if anyone has determined any
>advantages of one way versus the other, and probably most importantly which
>is the more common approach, or which "looks nicer"....
>
>Thanks for your thoughts.
>
>Dick Flunker
>RV-6A. RFLUNKER(at)AOL.COM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6junkie(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | RV6 Slideback Canopy |
I'd like to know what others are doing for the lubrication of the canopy
rails. I have been using white-lube, but it gets very messy. Has anybody
tried a teflon based lube?
Thanks,
Gary Corde
RV6 N211GC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dierks(at)austin.ibm.com |
| Subject: | Fuel Tank Drain Valve RV6A (fwd) |
If these are pipe thread (will be listed as NPT for national pipe thread)
then it is a tapered thread. I think these are NTP threads but don't have
one here to look at. It should be 1/8 NPT. If so, get a 1/8 NPT tap
and tap the threads a little deaper. Don't over do it as you can get the
hole too large and the drain will not seat tight.
FYI, if you look at the fitting, you will see a taper on the threads if
it is pipe thread.
Herman
>
> I have a ? regarding the assembly of the fuel tank drain valve (CAV-110)
> and the drain flange (VA-112). Upon preliminary assembly, both valves will
> only thread into their respective flanges two or three turns before
> stopping dead. The picture in the plans shows the valve threaded
> COMPLETELY into the flange. Before I use a tap & die on the two parts, is
> there a reason the two parts thread so shallow?
>
> Also, is teflon tape or some other pipe compound used or needed after final
> assembly.
>
> Chet Razer
> crazer(at)midwest.net
>
Herman Dierks, Dept. E54S, AWSD Austin, Texas
mail: dierks(at)austin.ibm.com VM: DIERKS at AUSVM6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | J.Ken_Hitchmough(at)magic.ca (J.Ken Hitchmough) |
I seem to have more questions than answers right now, but...
Does anyone have a computer rendering of a 6 or 6A in postscript or any MAC
format?
Its about time I figured out a paint scheme seeing as I'm just about finished
building the thing.
Ken
j.ken_hitchmough(at)mail.magic.ca
--
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Magic Online Services Toronto Inc. (416) 591-6490
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Brown <jmbrown(at)aimnet.com> |
| Subject: | Orndorff tapes?? |
Can some kind soul provide address, phone number etc. for this tapes..
thanks
-------sig cut here-------
jmbrown(at)aimnet.com PP-ASEL
jmbrown(at)BayNetworks.com
Building an RV-6 #23568 N610JB "The Golden BeeBee"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christopher Krieg" <christopher_krieg(at)aoce.austin.apple.com> |
| Subject: | Elevator Skin Slots Rod End Bearings |
>bunch of stuff deleted
Cut the bottom elevator skin openings to full size and cut the upper skin
openings just wide enough to allow the skins to clear the hinges. You can get
to the bearing bolts from the underside of the elevator, and have low drag
openings on top. This is a trick from my Glasair building days. Thats the way
Glasair does it and it works great (I know, comparing to plastic planes is
bad). I cut mine to full size, top and bottom and wish I would have done it
the other way,
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RUSS_NICHOLS(at)fire.ca.gov |
>From RUSS_NICHOLS Mon Nov 27 11:17:29 0800 1995 remote from fire.ca.gov
From: RUSS_NICHOLS(at)fire.ca.gov (RUSS NICHOLS)
Subject: HS progress and warning
If you are one of the "old salts" on the list, this may not be very
interesting. For anyone working on the Horizontal Stab or getting
ready to, learn by my mistakes...
In assembling my HS, I made two sizable mistakes...
1st, when I drilled up through the HS-405, through the front spar and
reinforcing angles (specifically the HS-610), I placed one of the
holes too far toward the center of the spar. Consequently, my edge
distance on the 610 for one rivet is 3/16" instead of the required
minimum of 1/4". Hind site says I should have measured everything out
and drilled down through the spar into the rib. Tom Green (at Van's)
said that since it's just one rivet (the rest are dead center), that
it is OK.
2nd, when placing the bottom of the HS-405 on the rear spar, I
measured from the wrong edge of the rib. Consequently, I have holes
through the spar (and the 409s) 5/8" inboard of the actual rib rivets
(I moved the rib to the correct location). At first, this didn't seem
to be a huge problem. An extra rivet couldn't hurt... until I
realized the area is supposed to be flat so that the HS can be bolted
to the fuse. Since the rear spar is completely riveted together, it
doesn't seem practical to separate the pieces, dimple the spar channel
and countersink the 409s. Tom suggested countersinking through the
spar into the 409s and using the NAS "cheater" rivets. The smaller
head will reduce the size of the countersink hole while providing a
flush surface.
The moral... think about everything before you do it! I got into a
"groove" and just kept plugging. I assumed that all the ribs were
measured from the same side. I assumed that a rivet placed correctly
on a rib flange would be placed correctly on the opposite side of the
spar.
Now, I assume that I'm going to review everything before I make it
permanent.
I thought that I may have created 70 hours worth of scrap... Tom
laughed and said if those are my worst mistakes, I'm doing OK. I'm
much happier now, but I wasn't laughing yesterday afternoon...
Go forth and build,
Russ Nichols
RV-6 (empenage in the jig, primed, drilled, and ready to rivet)
russ_nichols(at)fire.ca.gov
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | A200hpRV6(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder Rivet Spacing |
We just did our rivet spacing on our rudder stiffeners and found that
determining the end rivet locations and then using the fan worked great. It
gives a nice even spacing and a nice appearance. If this is the best way, who
knows? However we were pleased.
Ron Coleman
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rso(at)css.ncifcrf.gov (Becki Orndorff) |
| Subject: | Re: Orndorff tapes?? |
>Can some kind soul provide address, phone number etc. for this tapes..
George and Becki Orndorff
2347 Michael Road
Myersville, MD 21773
(301) 293-1505 after 5 pm and weekends (Eastern)
>
>thanks
>-------sig cut here-------
>jmbrown(at)aimnet.com PP-ASEL
>jmbrown(at)BayNetworks.com
>Building an RV-6 #23568 N610JB "The Golden BeeBee"
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
Becki Orndorff
NCI-FCRDC, Computer & Statistical Services
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Stephen Bell <steve(at)discus.lincoln.ac.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: Rivet Spacing (was: rudder rivet spacing) |
On Sun, 26 Nov 1995, Jack Abell wrote:
> I divide that distance
> by 1.5 and round up to find the number of intervals. I then divide the
> number of intervals into the distance between the two end marks and enter
> it into a hand calculator, which I use to determine the distance between
> one end rivet and each subsequent rivet mark. I then measure and mark
> these distances and drill, clecoing into a sheet of plywood on a flat table
A handy trick I used was to draw a rivet spacing "fan" onto a benchtop
by marking a 2" spaced rivet pattern then drawing lines back to a point
2-3' away, then mark the positions for 1 3/4" 1 1/2" 1 1/4" & 1" spacings
by drawing lines parallel to the 2" line, now to get evenly spaced
rivets just mark the start & end rivet position on the stiffener
place on the 1.5" spacing line & slide back towards the point until the
end rivet positions line up with the "fan" lines.... real quick.
Steve
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Stephen Bell |
Lincoln University, \--------------------(*)--------------------/
Canterbury,
New Zealand. NIMBUS II - Driver XX
RV 6 - Growing in the garage.
E-Mail: S.Bell(at)ono.lincoln.ac.nz work
steve(at)discus.lincoln.ac.nz play
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Stephen Bell <steve(at)discus.lincoln.ac.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: Cutting out the trim tab |
> >What tool is best used to cut out the trim tab from the left elevator skin?
> I used combination snips for the long cut across the elevator and a cutting
> disc in a Dremel Tool for the short cut including the trailing edge.
I used a pin router for the short cut & snips for the long cut with
good results.
Steve
-----------------------------------------------------------
steve(at)discus.lincoln.ac.nz
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV6 Slideback Canopy |
Why don't you try some of the goo from between your toes? It's not quite as
messy, but it does have quite an odor. I'm still trying to get it out of my
car.
Wrgway
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | crazer(at)midwest.net (Chester Razer) |
| Subject: | Fuel Tank Drain Valve |
Any of you who are about to fit your fuel tank drain valves into their
respective flanges here is some information you might find useful. I
recently posted a message regarding my valves not threading correctly into
their flanges. I examined the valves under a magnifying glass and found
the threads had a flat top, in other words they were not tapered as pipe
threads should be. Apparently they were poorly cut when manufactured. A
buddy ran them through a die and now they thread into the flange with no
problems. You all who are just taking receipt of your wing kits and find
this situation may want to examine your drain valve threads closely if they
don't fit well.
Chet Razer
crazer(at)midwest.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Brown <jmbrown(at)aimnet.com> |
Please don't flame me for this!!!
I just wanted to post that THIS RV-6 builder is **>>VERY<<** satisfied with
Bob Avery's operation. He has been quick, knowledgable and very helpful. If anyone
lurking on the list is trying to decide where to buy tools from, Avery's the
place.
-------sig cut here-------
jmbrown(at)aimnet.com PP-ASEL
jmbrown(at)BayNetworks.com
Building an RV-6 #23568 N610JB "The Golden BeeBee"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: Priming Platenuts |
> Do the platenuts (used to connect rod end bearings to the rudder and
> elevator spars) need to be primed? They look like they are plated but I am
> not sure.
>
> RV6 starting the Left Elevator,
>
> Bob
They are plated but I usually at least shoot them with Zinc chromate
from a spray can anyhow, or lay a bunch on a screen and shoot them with
my regular primer when I'm priming something else. Can't hurt.
Randall Henderson
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: RV-4 Tip Tanks |
> Jon Johanson, the Aussie that flew his RV-4 from Brisbane to Oshkosh,
> had fuel in the fiberglass tips, 8.7 gal ea., among other places. That
> alone is more than a 50 percent in the standard 32 gal. I gotta have that.
>
> Any custom tanks available yet? Any pros / cons on this?
>
> John Brick
John told me he plans to produce a wing tank kit from his design.
I also saw some tanks called "bladder busters" on an RV-6 at Van's
homecoming, which they're selling as a kit -- they're an extended wing
section, about 8" wide, that screw on to where the tip goes, and then
the tips are screwed on to that. I can try to dig up the literature if
you can't find it elsewhere. Let me know.
I think the best solution would be to put RV-6 tanks on your -4
(assuming you haven't built your wings yet). Several people have done
this and it seems to work well. There's some talk about how to do it in
the old RV-list postings, you might want to try to search for that in
the archives.
Randall Henderson
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JERRYWALKER(at)delphi.com |
>What tool is best used to cut out the trim tab from the left elevator skin?
>>
>>RV6 starting Left Elevator,
>>
After marking the cut-out, drill stop holes with # 30 drill in the
interior corners of the desired cut-out. Clamp a steel straight edge
on the cutting lines and use a utility knife to score the .016 sheet.
Continue to draw the utility knife along the desired cut line until
the cut is complete. You will get a very clean cut without bending
or puckering the edge. Dress the edge with a vixen file and you will
get a nice clean edge to put your hinge on.
Jerry Walker
Working on the first (left) fuel tank, RV-6
___
* UniQWK v4.02* The Windows Mail Reader
I would rather walk into a prop than go to Pope.
'[1;35;40m-=> Delphi Internet Jet v3.012 - (C) PBE
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Rudder Rivet Spacing |
If you use constant spacing you can make a template and mark all the
stiffeners with one template. Instead of marking and then center punching
the stiffeners, I used a template with constant spaced holes to drill thru
on the drill press to make the start of the hole, an indentation, at each
hole location on each stiffener. This was done by holding the stiffener and
template together by hand under the slow turning drill bit. At the end of
the stiffener, where you run out of stiffener for the constant spacing,
slide the template to align its end with the end of the stiffener and use
the end hole of the template (spaced from the end so to give the proper
spacing to the trailing edge) to indent thru.
This seemed to work very well.
Carl Weston
RV-6 23876 Hope to have empennage finished in a week, including
electric trim, tail light, and fiberglass!
>
> All this Rudder/Elevator talk is very timely for me as I'm working on the
> rudder. I'm about to determine my rivet spacing for the rudder stiffeners.
> Van's directions indicates two acceptable methods. Those being to use the 1
> 1/2" spacing and adjusting the spacing near the trailing edge to end at the
> 3/4" mark, versus establishing the start and end positions and then use a fan
> to equally space the rivets. I'm curious if anyone has determined any
> advantages of one way versus the other, and probably most importantly which
> is the more common approach, or which "looks nicer"....
>
> Thanks for your thoughts.
>
> Dick Flunker
> RV-6A. RFLUNKER(at)AOL.COM
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dougweil(at)mail.pressenter.com (Doug Weiler) |
RV-Listers:
This is no doubt redundant, but I'm just finishing my fuel tanks but have
not yet purchased the gauges themselves (I have installed Van's new style
sending units). Not too long ago, someone on the List discussed installing
the Mitchell gauges, but I didn't save that message. Could I ask this
individual to repeat his/her experience in using the Mitchell gauges. Feel
free to reply directly to my E-mail.
Many thanks,
Doug
****************************************************
* Doug Weiler, pres. MN Wing Van's AirForce
* 347 Krattley Lane
* Hudson, WI 54016
* 715-386-1239
* email: dougweil(at)mail.pressenter.com
****************************************************
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Cracked Canopy |
Bill:
A fella I know had his J-3 windsheild "welded" after it cracked. I saw no new
cracks in that area after 250 hrs of operation. He had it done at a plexi
shop, and it looked like a small blob of vaseline had been left at the crack.
I thought it could be polished out better, too. This would certainly be a
cheaper, but less sightly, method of repair...
Rgds,
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | alanw(at)netspace.net.au (Alan Williams) |
>Please don't flame me for this!!!
>
>I just wanted to post that THIS RV-6 builder is **>>VERY<<** satisfied with
>Bob Avery's operation. He has been quick, knowledgable and very helpful.
If anyone
>lurking on the list is trying to decide where to buy tools from, Avery's the
>place.
>
>
>-------sig cut here-------
>jmbrown(at)aimnet.com PP-ASEL
>jmbrown(at)BayNetworks.com
>Building an RV-6 #23568 N610JB "The Golden BeeBee"
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
I'll second that motion. This is my experience too - Bob Avery looks after
us very well, even here in 'Downunder'.
Alan Williams
Melbourne Australia
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6junkie(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Non-RV subject for wrgway |
I'll tell ya Don, the lingering smell of my feet in your car pales in
comparison to the stench that leaks out of your orifice's after consuming
large portions of south-of-the-border food and six or several Corona's.
You should get back to the gym you fat old coot! Just think how fast your
plane would climb if it didn't have to carry around all of that spare
luggage. Better order a RV-8 because you'll be needing some of my *toe
cheese lube* for your side rails so you can squeeeeeze into your RV-4. Have
another donut Don!
BTW, after you're done smelling my feet, you can kiss my @$$!
XOXO,
Your Hangar-mate
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "NMARSHAL" <NMARSHAL(at)AOPARI.remnet.rockwell.com> |
It's true - Avery's service and quality are great!
PS any other RV buildrers in France out there?
Nigel Marshall
Chevreuse, France
RV-4 (# 4062) Empennage
nmarshal(at)aopari.remnet.rockwell.com
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re: RV-List: Avery Tools
Date: 28/11/95 08:43
>Please don't flame me for this!!!
>
>I just wanted to post that THIS RV-6 builder is **>>VERY<<** satisfied with
>Bob Avery's operation. He has been quick, knowledgable and very helpful.
If anyone
>lurking on the list is trying to decide where to buy tools from, Avery's the
>place.
>
>
>-------sig cut here-------
>jmbrown(at)aimnet.com PP-ASEL
>jmbrown(at)BayNetworks.com
>Building an RV-6 #23568 N610JB "The Golden
BeeBee"
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
I'll second that motion. This is my experience too - Bob Avery looks after
us very well, even here in 'Downunder'.
Alan Williams
Melbourne Australia
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Elon Ormsby" <Elon.Ormsby(at)quickmail.llnl.gov> |
| Subject: | [1]RE>RV-List- Elevator Ski |
Reply to: [1]RE>RV-List: Elevator Skin Slots Rod End Bearings
Elon will not be available until September 21st.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WStucklen(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV-4/6 Tip Tanks |
>I also saw some tanks called "bladder busters" on an RV-6 at Van's
>homecoming, which they're selling as a kit -- they're an extended wing
>section, about 8" wide, that screw on to where the tip goes, and then
>the tips are screwed on to that. I can try to dig up the literature if
>you can't find it elsewhere. Let me know.
>
>Randall Henderson
>RV-6
I'd be interested in any information you or the list has on installation of
tip tanks of this nature. It seems that the tanks would be easy to build, but
what about the plumbing in an already constructed (& flying) wing? Also,
what about the additional stresses?
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KHarrill(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Strengtheners |
Dick,
On November 23 you ask:
I have a question about the skin strenghteners in the Rudder. I'm having
difficulty determining the distance of how close the strengther is to be to
the bend line (trailing edge) of the rudder. Can anyone help me out? Sorry
if I missed it on the plans..
I had the same question and finally called Van's. I was told to measure from
the outside of the trailing edge while bending the skin down to near its
final shape. I used a caliper set to 3/4 inch, as best I can recall, to mark
the inside of the skin for the last rivet. I did this at both ends of the
skin, then used a long straight edge to connect the marks. The plans or
manual gives the distance from the last rivet to the end of the stiffner.
Hope this helps,
Ken
RV - 6 left rudder
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "JAMES E. AYERS" <102337.2252(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cracked Canopy |
>Mark sent to Bill:
>A fella I know had his J-3 windshield "welded" after it cracked.
> (stuff deleted)
A crack in Plexiglas can be repaired and left looking like a "weld" or made
invisible with the
Micro-Mesh sanding system.
To accomplish this, a "glue" bottle needs to be obtained from a local Plexiglas
supplier. The
glue bottles I used were just a plastic bottle with a thin tube for wicking the
glue into the
crack. The "glue" is made from acetone and a matching color piece (left over
trimming) of
Plexiglas dissolved in the acetone. The smallest hole possible should be
drilled at the end of
the crack. The trick is to move the tip along the crack at the same rate that
the glue is flowing
into the crack. The hole and the crack become filled with the glue.
Don't spill any glue anywhere else on the canopy. This glue is actually liquid
Plexiglas, and
is not just bonding the crack together, but making it parent material. Any drop
of glue on the
canopy becomes a permanent drop. To remove it, it would have to be sanded out
with the
Micro-Mesh.
BTW, don't substitute MEK for the Acetone. Plexiglas is an acetone based
plastic, and the
"glue" is parent material.
Jim Ayers
LOM RV-3 (I took some time last weekend to do some airport hopping, and really
enjoyed
the looks of bewilderment from all of the other airport bums as I taxied by.
You'd think they
had never seen an RV-3 without cheek cowls and only one air inlet below the
spinner. Not to
mention the four stubby exhaust pipes along the left lower side of the cowl.)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gil(at)rassp.hac.com (Gil Alexander) |
Doug,
..... I think that was probably my comment.
I talked to the Mitchells at Oshkosh, and found out that their
guages are Stewart Warner (and Vans) compatible -- 240 ohms Empty to 33
ohms Full.
I am presently leaning towards using their 1.5 inch square units
for engine monitoring on my RV. These guages are small, but still easy to
read.
The Westach dual fuel level meter ( #2DA4 ) is also compatible, and
I am going to mount one just above my fuel selector valve panel.
... hope this helps ... Gil Alexander
gil(at)rassp.hac.com
RV6A, #20701, N64GA resvd. ... started canopy frame fitting
>RV-Listers:
>
>This is no doubt redundant, but I'm just finishing my fuel tanks but have
>not yet purchased the gauges themselves (I have installed Van's new style
>sending units). Not too long ago, someone on the List discussed installing
>the Mitchell gauges, but I didn't save that message. Could I ask this
>individual to repeat his/her experience in using the Mitchell gauges. Feel
>free to reply directly to my E-mail.
>
>Many thanks,
>
>Doug
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-4/6 Tip Tanks |
STOP SENDING ME MAIL! IT IS REALLY STARTING TO PISS ME OFF!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: Trim Tab Question. |
> Alright, Any bright ideas on this one? Trim tab on the left
> elevator. When I installed it on the elevator the trailing edge does
> not line up with the trailing edge of the elevator. It sticks out
> about 1/8" inch more than the elevator. Any Ideas on adjusting this or
> should I build another? Hummmm.
You might be able to just drill out one of the hinge halves, either the
one that's riveted to the elevator or the one on the trim tab, get a
new hinge half, and drill and rivet the new one on, adjusted for correct
alignment.
Randall Henderson
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle (Matt G. Dralle 1+ 510-447-9886) |
| Subject: | Re: RV-4/6 Tip Tanks |
>--------------
>STOP SENDING ME MAIL! IT IS REALLY STARTING TO PISS ME OFF!
>--------------
Have you sent a message to "rv-list-request(at)matronics.com" with the word
"unsubscribe" in the body?? That's how you get off this list.
Matt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dierks(at)austin.ibm.com |
| Subject: | 5 point harness problems, Van's response (fwd) |
David, I looked at my belts last night. I bought them from Van's in late 1992
and they are also the Am Safety model.
I took one of the shoulder harnes straps from the rear belt to simulate
the crotch strap for the 5 point harness. It comes very close to working.
If you turn it over and watch the back side, it only needs about 1/32 of an
inch more clearance for the square locking tab to lock into the hole in
the male tab.
If you look at the male tab, I think a minor amount of grinding will make
it work and not harm the strength of the unit.
Here is a crude picture:
________
|
______ |
| _ |
| | | |
| _ |
_____ |
| |
_______
After:
________
/
______ |
| _ |
| | | |
| _ |
_____ |
\ |
_______
Just grinding the corners back some as this area is 3/8 inch thick
while the rest is 1/4 inch. The harnes ends that slip over this area
have their slots quite a bit wider than the tab so that grinding
off the 90 degree corners to get some angle in the area shown above
should allow the crotch tab and the two shoulder harnes tabs enough
room to fit. After grinding, buff it smooth with the scotch brite
wheel.
Where did you get your crotch strap?
Did you try calling Americal Safety about this?
Herman
dierks(at)austin.ibm.com
> From root Tue Nov 14 09:06:28 1995
> Errors-To: bounces(at)matronics.com
> Date: Tue, 14 Nov 1995 07:43:53 -0500
> From: smtpgwy.dehavilland.ca!david_fried(at)matronics.com
> Encoding: 54 Text
> Message-Id: <9510148163.AA816364060(at)smtpgwy.dehavilland.ca>
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: 5 point harness problems, Van's response
>
> Herman
>
> Here is Van's response to my note on the belt problem.
>
> >I'm afraid that the prognosis is not good for the belt system we sold you...
it
> >has turned out that the lap-shoulder arrangement sold in the past by Van's s
> >not compatible with the "fifth point" crotch strap.
>
> >If you would like to return it I will gladly credit your account. We have not
> >yet determined if the appropriate lap-shoulder arrangement will be handled yet
> >so I have no good info for you... sorry.
>
> The offending part is the male half of the latch device. It is a flat plate of
> metal with a few cutouts and is heavily plated. I don't know what material it
> is, or if it is tempered. If anyone out there knows of a shop that could produce
> a part that would satisfy the authorities, I would appreciate the address.
>
> Date of Manufacture: A0395
> Model: AM-SAFE 9600-3
> Lap Belt (both sides): 503086-405-2855
> Metal plate: 500535
> Latch Device: 500083
> Centre Strap (anti submarine): 503086-217-2855
>
>
> David Fried
> DF-6 C-____
> dfried(at)dehavilland.ca
>
> ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
> Subject: RV-List: 5 point harness problems (fwd)
> Author: dierks(at)austin.ibm.com
> Date: 14/11/95 00:56
>
>
> Did Van's get this resolved for you?
> It sounds like you need a different male half of the lap belt that will accept
> the crotch strap.
>
> I use a 5-point harness in my Pitts and would like one in my RV-4. I bought
> Van's seat/shoulder harness when all he offered was the
> 4-point unit. I saw in the newletter he now has the 5-point version. I thought
> about just getting the crotch strap from him but it
> sounds like you may need a different seat belt as well.
>
>
> I don't know where to mount it on a -6. For the -4, I would probably mount it
> to one of the spar carry thru bolts. It may mean getting the next size longer
> bolt.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Non-RV subject for wrgway |
I take it I might have touched a nerve! Touche.
Oh by the way I dropped your bike off at the house with a big bow on it
as there was no room in the hanger.
XOXO
Wrgway
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ecole(at)ix.netcom.com (EDWARD COLE ) |
| Subject: | Re: Orndorff tapes?? |
Avery's carries the complete line of Orndorff video tapes.
Call 1-800-652-8379 or 817-439-8400.
Ed Cole RV6A Empenage #24430
ecole(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dierks(at)austin.ibm.com |
| Subject: | Re: Non-RV subject for wrgway (fwd) |
Do you have to send these personal 'war' messages on this net?
Why not sent them to his email address directly?
Thanks, Herman
> From root Tue Nov 28 16:13:18 1995
> Errors-To: bounces(at)matronics.com
> From: aol.com!Wrgway(at)matronics.com
> Date: Tue, 28 Nov 1995 15:29:44 -0500
> Message-Id: <951128152941_118833253(at)mail02.mail.aol.com>
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Non-RV subject for wrgway
>
> I take it I might have touched a nerve! Touche.
> Oh by the way I dropped your bike off at the house with a big bow on it
> as there was no room in the hanger.
>
> XOXO
> Wrgway
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | B F Gibbons <bfgibbons(at)intellinet.com> |
Finally... I've received my RV6 wing kit. The BAC components are =
unbelievable! Very, very nice.
Included in the kit were the new pre-punched skin plans for RV4 wings. =
I don't have much use for these and Ken said to give them to anyone who =
is interested. Any takers? E-mail me at bfgibbons(at)intellinet.com.
BFG
(Frank, I'm still working on the FTP site. I'm getting ready to change =
domain names so I'll let you know when it's ready to test. Thanks for =
the disk.)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | crazer(at)midwest.net (Chester Razer) |
Just thought I'd pass on a little tip regarding priming. Visit your local
hobby shop a pick up their cheapest air brush with a one ounce color
container. A single action brush is sufficient (I'm using a Pasche Brush
with a No. 5 tip (it gives more coverage than a No. 1 or No.3). This handy
tool is great for touch up priming or priming small assemblies such as a
flaps or ailerons and the inside of a skin is also easy to do. The great
thing about an air brush is that overspray is kept to an absolute minimum
(almost nil). You'll be amazed at how far a couple ounces of mixed
Veriprime will go. If you buy a larger color container just cap the
openings and put the leftover primer in the refrigerator and It'll last for
a couple of weeks. The Veriprime when properly mixed is viscous enough to
flow through the brush easily. I've found that 25-30 psi on my compressor
works well. The money you save on primer alone will pay for the brush many
times over. I now only use a touchup gun for big jobs.
As always, wear a charcoal filter respirator or build a fresh air mask
Chet Razer
half way through left wing 6 or 6A?
crazer(at)midwest.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-4/6 Tip Tanks |
More fuel, in more tanks?
Having flown 3 to 4 hours at one sitting (a time or two in the 6A), I still
prefer
about 2 1/2 hours max. It ain't that I'm short of fuel but short of bladder
in the bod.
Being an older (retired) perhaps it goes with the territory. Anyhow, ifn I
can go from
Texas to either coast in one day, with a couple of hops, what's wrong with
"plans
built"....IMO?
Not needing to go to Austrailia, or Brazil, what we got ain't bad!
Marvin N63TX 580 hours, more tomorrow!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jperri(at)interserv.com |
Still looking for any suggestions...
<---- Begin Forwarded Message ---->
From: interserv.com!jperri(at)matronics.com
Date: Thu, 23 Nov 1995 07:17:57 -0800
Subject: RV-List: Landing Lights
Another query for the group. I have wing tip mounted landing lights on my RV-6.
What have you found to be the best setting for these? I have tried setting the
left hand light to to focus on the runway during flare and the right for the
approach. This still does not seem to work great. Only soultion that sounds
right is another light in the cowl. Some locals tell me that with the vibration
induced here, bulb life will be extremely short. Any thoughts?
John Perri CFII RV-6 350 hrs.
<---- End Forwarded Message ---->
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Cracked Canopy |
I broke a chunk out of my RV-6 canopy at the bottom rear (the canopy dropped
unexpectedly - I like to have cried). I fixed it by gluing the piece back
with methyl chloride squirted into the crack with a syringe, then I covered
the back edge of the canopy with a fiberglas band. Methyl chloride is sold
at plastic supply houses as glue/solvent for acrylic plastics, and it's
cheap. The solvent wicks into the crack really well. You can also use it for
"welding" up boxes, bins, etc. out of acrylic sheet (Plexiglas, Acrylite,
etc.).
Dana Breda
Flying RV-6 in NC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ecole(at)ix.netcom.com (EDWARD COLE ) |
Fellow builders,
I need to clarify a couple of items concerning the HS404 rib
attachment.
1) On drawing 3a...detail "A" says to cut the HS404 to clear the spar
flange angles. I assume that this means the rib flange should set down
in between the two spar angles...Yes??? From the drawing, it looks like
HS405 attaches through the spar flange angles, and the HS404 attaches
to the 602 spar and 405 rib flange..
2) The drawing also says " Trim the HS404 rib and 601 skin to clear the
614 reinforcing angle." I dont see a conflict here as there doesn't
seem to be any interference...what am I missing???
Thanks in advance for the help.
Ed Cole
Cupertino, CA
RV6A 24430 Empenage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | alanw(at)netspace.net.au (Alan Williams) |
| Subject: | Re: Horizontal Stab |
>Fellow builders,
>I need to clarify a couple of items concerning the HS404 rib
>attachment.
>
>1) On drawing 3a...detail "A" says to cut the HS404 to clear the spar
>flange angles. I assume that this means the rib flange should set down
>in between the two spar angles...Yes??? From the drawing, it looks like
>HS405 attaches through the spar flange angles, and the HS404 attaches
>to the 602 spar and 405 rib flange..
>
>2) The drawing also says " Trim the HS404 rib and 601 skin to clear the
>614 reinforcing angle." I dont see a conflict here as there doesn't
>seem to be any interference...what am I missing???
>
>Thanks in advance for the help.
>Ed Cole
>Cupertino, CA
>RV6A 24430 Empenage
>
>
>
Ed,
You are correct in your assumptions in 1) - HS405 will end up with 4 rivets
attaching to HS602, of which 2 also fasten the HS404 and 2 go through the
HS610/614. This detail is shown clearly in drawing 3a labelled 'Rib attach
at HS-602 Spar'.
I found I only needed to trim the HS-604 rib, not the skin, to clear the
HS614 angle. Make sure the distance between the HS610 and HS614 is correct -
its a critical dimension, 3 1/4" as shown in Section B-B on drawing 3a.
Hope this helps.
Regards,
Alan Williams
Melbourne Australia
RV6A - Working on wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dougweil(at)mail.pressenter.com (Doug Weiler) |
Another fuel tank question:
Has anyone had any experience in using Permatex Form-A-Gasket #2 to seal the
fuel tank access opening and the fuel gauge sending unit. One of our local
builders has used this and is in the process of pressure testing his tanks.
One tank has been pressurized with the balloon method for over a month and
no leaks. He his assuming that this would be fine over the long term, but I
would appreciate additional opinions.
Thanks,
Doug
****************************************************
* Doug Weiler, pres. MN Wing Van's AirForce
* 347 Krattley Lane
* Hudson, WI 54016
* 715-386-1239
* email: dougweil(at)mail.pressenter.com
****************************************************
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Walsh <walsh(at)ranger.ENET.dec.com> |
Has anybody received an Rvator since August?? I haven't...
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "A. Reichert" <reichera(at)clark.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RVator late?? |
Still waiting...
On Wed, 29 Nov 1995, John Walsh wrote:
> Has anybody received an Rvator since August?? I haven't...
>
> John
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RUSS_NICHOLS(at)fire.ca.gov |
>From RUSS_NICHOLS Wed Nov 29 10:33:10 0800 1995 remote from fire.ca.gov
From: RUSS_NICHOLS(at)fire.ca.gov (RUSS NICHOLS)
Subject: Re: RV-List: RVator late??
I spoke with the folks at Van's a couple of days ago. Ken is
feverishly working on it... Sounds like it should be out soon.
Russ
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: RV-List: RVator late??
Date: 11/29/95 12:03 PM
Has anybody received an Rvator since August?? I haven't...
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Day" <sday(at)pharmcomp.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RVator late?? |
>Has anybody received an Rvator since August?? I haven't...
Nope, still waiting......
-Steve Day
sday(at)pharmcomp.com
(CK ID - RV6a RV for short)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ecole(at)ix.netcom.com (EDWARD COLE ) |
| Subject: | Re: Horizontal Stab |
You wrote:
>
>>Fellow builders,
>>I need to clarify a couple of items concerning the HS404 rib
>>attachment.
>>
>>1) On drawing 3a...detail "A" says to cut the HS404 to clear the spar
>>flange angles. I assume that this means the rib flange should set
down
>>in between the two spar angles...Yes??? From the drawing, it looks
like
>>HS405 attaches through the spar flange angles, and the HS404 attaches
>>to the 602 spar and 405 rib flange..
>>
>>2) The drawing also says " Trim the HS404 rib and 601 skin to clear
the
>>614 reinforcing angle." I dont see a conflict here as there doesn't
>>seem to be any interference...what am I missing???
>>
>>Thanks in advance for the help.
>>Ed Cole
>>Cupertino, CA
>>RV6A 24430 Empenage
>>
>>
>>
>Ed,
>
>You are correct in your assumptions in 1) - HS405 will end up with 4
rivets
>attaching to HS602, of which 2 also fasten the HS404 and 2 go through
the
>HS610/614. This detail is shown clearly in drawing 3a labelled 'Rib
attach
>at HS-602 Spar'.
>
>I found I only needed to trim the HS-604 rib, not the skin, to clear
the
>HS614 angle. Make sure the distance between the HS610 and HS614 is
correct -
>its a critical dimension, 3 1/4" as shown in Section B-B on drawing
3a.
>
>Hope this helps.
>
>Regards,
>
>Alan Williams
>Melbourne Australia
>
>RV6A - Working on wings
>
>
Alan,
Thanks for the help and the speedy response. It is amazing that I can
get help from half way around the world in a matter of hours. Ain't
technology great???
Good luck on your project.
By the way, are you using any of the Barnard quickbuild options on your
wings? How about the Phlogistron (sp) Spar.
Ed Cole
ecole(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David A. Barnhart" <barnhart(at)crl.com> |
| Subject: | My experience with Cleveland's tank dies |
I few weeks ago at COpperstate, I was visiting Cleveland Tools' display,
and was intrigued by a set of 3/32 dimple dies labeled "Tank Dies". D.J.
Lauritson (sp?) himself was manning the display, so I asked him about them.
These dies create a *slightly* deeper dimple to compensate for the
Pro-Seal that gets between the manufactured head of the rivet and the
tank skin. Being the curious type, I bought a set and used them to
dimple my second tank.
We (Scott McDaniels of Arizona Aerocrafters and I) finished the four
inner tank ribs yesterday, and I thought I would report my impressions of
these Tank Dies'.
My results were mixed. They did NOT work well for the rivets on the
reinforcing angles that run span-wise in the bottom of the tank. I
back-riveted those, and the slightly deeper dimple meant that the rivet
head had room to move around a little. In fact, it was impossible to not
drive the rivet at an angle. I ended up drilling out the rivets for the
reinforcing angles, drilling out the holes to #30, and installing NAS1097
rivets.
The results on the tank ribs were a little better. Most people (myself
included) use far too much proseal. In this case a lot of proseal oozes
out through the dimple before you put the rivet in. With a normal-depth
dimple, you end up with a rivet that sits up above the skin a bit. The
Tank Dies compensate for this very well. It is still easy, however, to
end up inadvertently driving the rivet at an angle.
The technique I learned from Scott for riveting the tank ribs involves:
(1) using a Q-tip to clean excess proseal out of the dimple before
inserting the rivet, and (2) squeezing the rivet guns trigger so that it
gives the rivet head a couple of light taps first. This squeezes out all
but the essential proseal from under the rivet head. Using this method,
the deeper dimples made by the tank dies caused us some problems. We
literally did not have enough pro-seal under the rivet head to make the
rivet come out nice. We compensated by using a little more pro-seal that
we normally would, causing enough proseal to ooze out into the dimple to
get the rivet to seat evenly.
So the bottom line is mixed. I would never use these tank dimples on the
tank stiffeners (reinforcing angles). And for normal people using the
average amount of proseal (which is more proseal than is needed), the tank
dimples do a good job on the ribs. As for me, if I had it to do over
again, I probably would not buy them again.
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
ViaCrypt
________________________________________________________________________________
> Has anybody received an Rvator since August?? I haven't...
>
> John
I was just at Van's and they said the RVator would be mailed in a
day or so.
Carl Weston
RV-6 23876 Finishing empennage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert Busick <rbusick(at)nmsu.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: My experience with Cleveland's tank dies |
I have just recently used these dies and did not experience any
problems with either the tank stiffeners or ribs. I did find that the
final rivets were just a little below the surface of the skin after
riveting. I guess I did not use enough proseal. On the other hand, the male
die broke while dimpling with the c-tool. Called Cleveland
and they sent a replacement real fast, no charge
I have almost finished my first tank and I have been able to
contain the proseal very well. I have not gotten it all over the
workshop or my clothes, or the tanks. My method includes only mixing
one tablespoon or whitestuff with a 1/4 teaspoon of black stuff and I use
that until it is all gone, takes about 90 minutes and one rib. I also
use a cake icing decorating spatula that you can get from the supermarket. It
is perfect for spreading proseal and makes a real nice fillet or bead.
Looks real cool, too bad no one will see it! Also I use supermaket type
of rubber goves that normally are used to wash dishes. I do not change
them. I do clean up excess proceal from the gloves and any place else
when ever it happens. I find that if you keep the proseal off the gloves
you also keep it off everything else. This is real easy by taking paper
towels and cutting them into 3x5 sheets and soaking them in lacquer thinner
and using them to immediately clean any misplaced proseal from the
bucking bars, rivet gun, squeezer and everything else. Proseal
comes off of everything easily if you rub with the thinner. I have yet
to get any proseal on any of my clothes, so this process does not have to
be as messy as some say. To borrow a quote from cooking school, "Clean
as you go."
Hopefully this will help some of you overcome what can be a
significant and traumatic emotional event.
Bob Busick
RV-6
rbusick(at)nmsu.edu
> So the bottom line is mixed. I would never use these tank dimples on the
> tank stiffeners (reinforcing angles). And for normal people using the
> average amount of proseal (which is more proseal than is needed), the tank
> dimples do a good job on the ribs. As for me, if I had it to do over
> again, I probably would not buy them again.
>
> Best Regards,
> Dave Barnhart
> ViaCrypt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Elevator Skin Slots Rod End Bearings |
>You wrote:
>>
>>Has anyone reduced the size of the Elevator Skin Slots for the Rod End
>>Bearings in order to reduce drag?
>>
>>Frank Justice's instructions call for some reduction.
>>I was wondering if anyone else had developed smaller slots to reduce
>drag and what the dimensions where.
>>
>>RV6 working on left elevator,
>>
>>Bob
>>
>>++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>
>>Bob Haan Office 503-531-2366
>
>I suspect this size reduction has more to do with looks than with drag
>reduction, although there probably is some reduction. I am at that
>point on the right elevator and need to decide what I am going to do.
>One thing that concerns me is that it will make inspection more
>difficult -- out of sight out of mind. I am a little leery of not
>seeing anything going on with the bearings. I might cut them just a
>little smaller, trying to hide the slots when the elevators are in the
>neutral position, but showing the bearings when they are in the full
>down position.
>
>Regarding the platenuts, I primed mine and think that most people do.
>Mine came with a light oil on them which I used a solvent to remove and
>immediately primed. They are a ferrous metal I think and I would be
>very uncomfortable not priming them.
>
>I think I will use my Dremel tool to very carefully (hence, slowly) cut
>out the trim tab. Since some of the metal is cut away from the
>perimeter of the piece removed, it is critical to get the edge of the
>hole in the elevator as neat as possible. I think I will start with a
>small drilled hole at the inside corners (top and bottom) of the cutout
>to radius it. I'll probably use one or two thicknesses of duct tape
>along the elevator edge of the cut as insurance against straying away
>from the cut mark.
>
>Bob, I'll be interested in following other responses to your questions
>here, as well as any reactions you have to my thoughts. Best of luck.
>
> Bill Costello
> RV-6 finishing right elevator
> Chicago
> bcos(at)ix.netcom.com
>
> If you wanted to try a smaller opening at the rod end openings on
the elevator, you could make the top cut-out smaller and keep the cut out on
the bottom as the plans call for. This would mean laying down and looking
up for pre-flight check of attach hardware. You would have to install
bolts, nuts from the bottom, which makes a difficult job even harder. There
is something to be said for making pre-flight and inspections easy i.e.
keeping the cutouts as per plans. (Hope this note makes it to where it's
supposed to go. I'm new to Internet, E-mail, etc. Think the RV-list is a
great idea. Bob Skinner N369X RV-6 190 hrs since signed off end of
Jan. 150 Lyc., Props Inc. wood prop & tilt-up canopy. Building RV6-A now
with 180 hp, constant speed and probably another tip-up.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Horizontal Stab |
<199511291208.XAA21898(at)tornado.netspace.net.au>
| From: | Ed Weber <ebw(at)hpfiebw.fc.hp.com> |
> I found I only needed to trim the HS-604 rib, not the skin, to clear the
> HS614 angle. Make sure the distance between the HS610 and HS614 is correct -
> its a critical dimension, 3 1/4" as shown in Section B-B on drawing 3a.
The skin needs to be trimmed here because a bolt goes through the end of the
HS614 to a fuselage longeron. This is why it is longer than the HS610.
See drawing 34.
HS done, working on VS and rudder.
--
Ed Weber Hewlett-Packard Company
voice: (303) 229-3241 ICBD Product Design
fax: (303) 229-6580 3404 E Harmony Road, MS 72
email: ebw(at)fc.hp.com Fort Collins, Co 80525
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: Elevator Skin Slots Rod End Bearings |
At fly-ins I've seen several RVs with the top elevator hinge slots cut
small (1" wide or so) and the bottom normal size for inspection and
installation/removal. I really wish I had done this. It doesn't seem
like that big a deal to get underneath and look at it during
preflight. Well OK, I admit, I would probably be less inclined to
check those bolts if it were muddy or rainy (especially since I'm
building the tailwheel version) but cosmetically it's really nice.
Randall Henderson
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BPattonsoa(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: My experience with Cleveland's tank dies |
I used regular dies, from Avery. I avoided cleaning the Pro-Seal out of the
rivet dimples before inserting, even to the point of adding some with a Q-tip
when a cleco removed too much, or it seemed to be lacking. Much to my
amazement, every rivet was slightly proud. My experience on the outer L.E
sections said the rivets should have been perfect.
Without slosh the tanks were tight, which I guess is the primary objective.
I later got a rivet shaver and went over every rivet, taking a very thin cut
<5 thousands. The pro-seal holds the rivets out just a little. Since this
is where a tank will leak, I guess it is for the best. Were I to do another
one of these, I think I would dimple the skins, and then set my micro-stop to
take 2-5 thou. out and go over the holes with it. Would save the time and
trouble of shaving.
Bruce Patton
(Fues jig still for sale, all steel)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Pneumatic squeezer vs. hand squeezer? |
Hi all,
Does anyone out there have experience with a pneumatic squeezer? Do they
preclude the need for a hand squeezer? If so, do they offer enough advantages
to justify the price?
Just looking for opinions.
Gordon Pratt
Tooling up...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Arrow76R(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: My experience with Cleveland's tank dies |
Hi Bruce! I'm new to this list and noted that you have a fuselage jig for
sale. Could you give me some info such as:
Asking price; is it in shippable form; if so, any idea how much it would cost
to ship to Eugene, OR?
I moved here from the Denver, CO area last Spring and left the fuselage jig I
was using with another builder. I had the fuselage skeleton drilled and
clecoed together when it came time to move. When I get a jig, I can
relatively quickly re-jig the skeleton, rivet, and then start skinning. Best
Regards! . . . Gary Ludeke RV-6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Roger Boulanger <rboulang(at)dallas.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Pneumatic squeezer vs. hand squeezer? |
>Hi all,
>
>Does anyone out there have experience with a pneumatic squeezer? Do they
>preclude the need for a hand squeezer? If so, do they offer enough advantages
>to justify the price?
>
Having pretty well finished with all of the riveting on my RV6 project, I
have to say that the pneumatic squeezer is one of the greatest tools ever
invented (other than the air drill!).
And yes, the pneumatic squeezer is expensive alright, but you will not need
a hand squeezer (nor would you ever want to use one if you own the "man's" tool.
Have a good one!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "NMARSHAL" <NMARSHAL(at)AOPARI.remnet.rockwell.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pneumatic squeezer vs. hand squeezer? |
I bought the Avery pneumatic squeezer and find it very practical and easy
to use. I bought it after trying someone else's hand squeezer which seemed
very unwieldy and awkward, so I don't have a hand squeezer and haven't
missed it so far.
Nigel Marshall
Chevreuse, France
RV-4 (# 4062) Empennage / VS
nmarshal(at)aopari.remnet.rockwell.com
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: RV-List: Pneumatic squeezer vs. hand squeezer?
Date: 30/11/95 00:48
Hi all,
Does anyone out there have experience with a pneumatic squeezer? Do they
preclude the need for a hand squeezer? If so, do they offer enough advantages
to justify the price?
Just looking for opinions.
Gordon Pratt
Tooling up...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeremy <jbenedic(at)uofport.edu> |
| Subject: | Request for Material - WWW |
Update:
The Van's Aircraft WWW page has had the restrictive quota on size
removed. Therefore, expansion of the page is now possible.
Wanted:
Any user contributed material. Things like pictures of aircraft that
have been completed, pictures of projects (especially), builders
notes/logs, interesting stories, etc. Please e-mail me at the below
address if you have anything.
BTW:
Does anyone have the dates for the Oregon Air Fair???
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
| name://Jeremy Benedict | PP-ASEL-TD (since 1994) |
| email://jbenedic(at)uofport.edu | Logged:C-150,RV-4,-6,-6A,-6B,-6T|
| http://www.uofport.edu/~jbenedic | TT: 163.2 hrs TT-RV: 70.2 hrs |
| voice://503.240.1528 | |
|postal://Villa 114/5000 N. Willamette Blvd./Portland OR 97203-5754 |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Van's "WebManager" -- http://www.earthlink.net/~rkhu/vans/
Disclaimer: I do not work for Van's Aircraft, therefore any comments I
might say or have said are purely of my own opinion (unless stated that
the word is official). In addition, any (late) responses are my
responsibility, and do not reflect the timeliness of Van's Aircraft.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | alanw(at)netspace.net.au (Alan Williams) |
| Subject: | Re: Horizontal Stab |
>You wrote:
>>
>>
>Alan,
>Thanks for the help and the speedy response. It is amazing that I can
>get help from half way around the world in a matter of hours. Ain't
>technology great???
>Good luck on your project.
>By the way, are you using any of the Barnard quickbuild options on your
>wings? How about the Phlogistron (sp) Spar.
>Ed Cole
>ecole(at)ix.netcom.com
>
>
Ed,
I'm not using any of the quickbuild options, only the Williams SloBuild options!
The spars went together very easily and quickly however using the Avery
riveting & dimpling tool and a 4 pound hammer. One of the (4) builders in my
neighborhood has used the Phlogiston (sp) spars and they look very impressive.
Alan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DerFlieger(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Tank dies and high rivet heads |
writes:
>
>Without slosh the tanks were tight, which I guess is the primary objective.
> I later got a rivet shaver and went over every rivet, taking a very thin
cut
><5 thousands. The pro-seal holds the rivets out just a little. Since this
>is where a tank will leak, I guess it is for the best. Were I to do another
>one of these, I think I would dimple the skins, and then set my micro-stop
to
>take 2-5 thou. out and go over the holes with it. Would save the time and
>trouble of shaving.
>
Why bother? When you finish the tanks and the whole airplane for that matter,
you should be scuffing the surface in prep for painting. It is perfectly OK
and even desireable to go over a rivet line with your disc sander or orbital
with #220 or 320 grit paper (wet). Taking off 2 or 3 thousandths of the
alclad is no problem, and your rivet heads will be much nicer looking and
consistent. Of course if you are opting for a polished metal finish, you
should leave as much alclad on as possible.
Jim Stugart
DerFlieger(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rso(at)css.ncifcrf.gov (Becki Orndorff) |
| Subject: | Re: Pneumatic squeezer vs. hand squeezer? |
Gordon,
We built our first plane with only a hand squeezer and did quite well.
We came by a pneumatic squeezer during the building of the second plane and
use it whenever we can. There are places, though, that the pneumatic head
won't fit, but the hand one will. If you are really tight for money, save
it for instruments/engine.
Becki Orndorff
>Hi all,
>
>Does anyone out there have experience with a pneumatic squeezer? Do they
>preclude the need for a hand squeezer? If so, do they offer enough advantages
>to justify the price?
>
>Just looking for opinions.
>
>Gordon Pratt
>Tooling up...
>
>
Becki Orndorff
NCI-FCRDC, Computer & Statistical Services
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Non-RV subject for wrgway (fwd) |
Sorry to offend your sensibilities, actually these are not war messages as
RV6junkie and I are neighbors in hanger and home. Just our playful way fo
saying HEY!. Additionally I did'nt realize people had time to read each and
every message posted on the board, I know I don't.
If you have an RV good tailwind's if you don't, keep dreaming.
Wrgway
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Johnson, Steve" <spjohnson(at)msmail.mmmg.com> |
| Subject: | RV-8 Construction |
Hi all,
Just a naive question for all of you experienced builders and those who have
worked with Van's for some time. I am really fired up to get started on an
RV-8 when kits become available, but I wonder if it would be smart to wait
several months to order the empennage kit after the initial offering to let
the more active experienced builders who are also waiting, such as the
Orndorffs, get a head start to work out any initial bugs. I am pretty well
tooled up at this point, including, yes, a pneumatic squeezer. I have bought
some aluminum sheet to practice on as well as the starter kit from the
Orndorffs, so I will be busy learning what I can about the processes involved
in building. I expect this will be a reasonably controversial question, so
please e-mail me direct if you would rather reply that way.
Thanks,
Steve Johnson
spjohnson(at)mmm.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David A. Barnhart" <barnhart(at)crl.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pneumatic squeezer vs. hand squeezer? |
Gordon:
You asked:
> Does anyone out there have experience with a pneumatic squeezer? Do they
> preclude the need for a hand squeezer? If so, do they offer enough advantages
> to justify the price?
I have a pneumatic squeezer and would not part with it. For squeezing
3/32 rivets, I typically use the hand squeezer. It is lighter and easier
to handle, and a lot easier to adjust.
My scrawny little arms just do not have the strength to squeeze 1/8 inch
rivets, so I bought the pneumatic.
If you do choose to get the pneumatic squeezer, the best yoke to get is
the 'longeron yoke'. It is useful for FAR MORE than just longerons. Due
to its design it allows you to use the pneumatic squeezer where you would
not ordinarily be able to with one of the std yokes. I wish I had bought
mine sooner.
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
rv-6 sn 23744
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KHarrill(at)aol.com |
HOW AND WHEN DO YOU CUT THE SLOT IN THE LEFT ELEVATOR FOR THE TRIM
CABLE? IT'S CURIOUS THAT NEITHER VAN'S MANUAL NOR THE JUSTICE MANUAL PROVIDE
ANY INFORMATION ABOUT THIS. MAYBE I JUST HAVEN'T FOUND IT. QUESTIONS:
WHAT DO YOU USE TO MAKE THE CUT? CUT OFF WHEEL IN DIE GRINDER?
DO YOU CUT FROM THE INSIDE BEFORE CLOSING THE ELEVATOR OR LATER?
DO YOU BUILD AND FIT THE TRIM TAB FIRST TO MAKE SURE THE SLOT IT OPTIMALLY
LOCATED?
THE BENEFIT OF YOUR EXPERIENCE WILL BE APPRECIATED!!!
KEN HARRILL
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Smith, Hal" <smith1h(at)macsmtpgw.spring-branch.isd.tenet.edu> |
| Subject: | Pneumatic squeezer vs. hand squeezer? |
I had trouble at first but soon caught on how to use one. It is terrific. It
is much easier to use than a hand squeezer not to mention quicker. It makes
beautiful dimples and excellent shop heads on rivets. I would not trade mine
for anything (almost).
Hal Smith: Completeing Right elevator and laying out the left
Bellville, Texas
_______________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rv-list(at)matronics.com on Thu, Nov 30, 1995 12:52 AM |
| Subject: | Pneumatic squeezer vs. hand squeezer? |
RFC Header:Received: by macsmtpgw.spring-branch.isd.tenet.edu with SMTP;30 Nov
1995 00:51:50 U
| From: | dmi.net!gdpratt(at)matronics.com |
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 1995 21:26:38 -0800
Subject: RV-List: Pneumatic squeezer vs. hand squeezer?
Hi all,
Does anyone out there have experience with a pneumatic squeezer? Do they
preclude the need for a hand squeezer? If so, do they offer enough advantages
to justify the price?
Just looking for opinions.
Gordon Pratt
Tooling up...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BHamlin1(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Pneumatic squeezer vs. hand squeezer? |
I bought a pneumatic squeezer because I didn't have a decent hand squeezer
(US Industrial). The pneumatic is nice; makes a lot of the work go quickly
and the quality of the rivets/dimples is good.
If I had it to do over I would buy the best hand squeezer out there
(The Avery one they build themselves) and spend the money I laid out on the
pneumatic on something else...
I now own THREE squeezers (US ind, Avery, pneumatic) and feel the Avery is
the
best buy for the money.
Hope this helps,
Brad Hamlin
tail kit RV4
Walpole MA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dierks(at)austin.ibm.com |
| Subject: | TRIM CABLE SLOT (fwd) |
A good way to cut this type of hole is to determine the position of the
slot first. Then drill a hole at each end of the slot using your
uni-bit (drill a 1/8 pilot hole first and then drill with the uni-bit).
Drill the two holes to the proper diameter.
Then use a 'nibbling tool' (get from Radio Shack, Avery, or Cleveland, etc).
and nibble out the area between the two holes such that you cut out tangent
to the two holes. You may be able to use a die grinder here instead of
the nibbler tool.
Then file it smooth.
Sort of like this:
___
(___)
It's been a long time sense I did the trim cable. You can probably lay
the cable on top of the HS and line it up with the exit hole at the
rear spar and have it come out the hole in the fuselage.
That will allow you to determine the position of the slot in the root rib.
Herman
> From root Thu Nov 30 10:16:53 1995
> Errors-To: bounces(at)matronics.com
> From: aol.com!KHarrill(at)matronics.com
> Date: Thu, 30 Nov 1995 10:07:10 -0500
> Message-Id: <951130100709_120897739(at)emout05.mail.aol.com>
> To: RV-LIST(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: TRIM CABLE SLOT
> Sender: owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Precedence: junk
> Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>
> HOW AND WHEN DO YOU CUT THE SLOT IN THE LEFT ELEVATOR FOR THE TRIM
> CABLE? IT'S CURIOUS THAT NEITHER VAN'S MANUAL NOR THE JUSTICE MANUAL PROVIDE
> ANY INFORMATION ABOUT THIS. MAYBE I JUST HAVEN'T FOUND IT. QUESTIONS:
>
> WHAT DO YOU USE TO MAKE THE CUT? CUT OFF WHEEL IN DIE GRINDER?
>
> DO YOU CUT FROM THE INSIDE BEFORE CLOSING THE ELEVATOR OR LATER?
>
> DO YOU BUILD AND FIT THE TRIM TAB FIRST TO MAKE SURE THE SLOT IT OPTIMALLY
> LOCATED?
>
>
> THE BENEFIT OF YOUR EXPERIENCE WILL BE APPRECIATED!!!
>
> KEN HARRILL
> RV-6
>
Herman Dierks, Dept. E54S, AWSD Austin, Texas
mail: dierks(at)austin.ibm.com VM: DIERKS at AUSVM6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "JAMES E. AYERS" <102337.2252(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rivet Squeezer |
Hello all (or is it really correct to say y'all, in this case?),
>Gordon Pratt asked;
>Does anyone out there have experience with a pneumatic squeezer?
I feel the pneumatic rivet squeezer was the most valuable tool I had used in
building my
rv-3. Additional C heads in different throat lengths make it more versatile.
A
shorter
throat C head to get into lightening holes to attach brackets close to the hole,
and a longer
throat C head to reach the rudder and elevator spar rivets.
>Do they preclude the need for a hand squeezer?
I used a hand squeezer before I got a pneumatic squeezer. After setting a
couple dozen
rivets, I began to feel that my forearms were going to look like Popeye's (by
the time the
aircraft was finished).
>If so, do they offer enough advantages to justify the price?
The pneumatic squeezer is easier to use than either a hand squeezer or a rivet
gun and
bucking bar. I also found that I could load up the holes between the clecos and
just set
the rivets.
BTW, I was taught to set a rivet at each end of the work, then one in the
middle, and
keep setting a rivet in the middle of the remaining open space. I know this is
an
industrial practice from the early 1940's, but I don't remember seeing this
anywhere else.
Did I just miss it, or has it really been so long that I have forgotten reading
it? (Second
generation aerospace worker)
Jim Ayers
LOM RV-3 (I wonder what it's like to use all of the 140 hp for takeoff and
climb?)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Plains Electric EMS <pla_ems(at)nmia.com> |
| Subject: | Re: TRIM CABLE SLOT |
I'll explain how I did it; it worked for me. I did not drill any holes
in the HS or elevator until I had fitted the elevator/trim tab on the
fuselage. After i got the elevator set up on the HS (I cut out the slot
on the bottom of the elevator for the exit during construction) I just
followed the slot on the bottom, marked both the HS and elevator. I then
cut the hole in the HS between the flange strips on the rear spare. On
the elevator I used my die grinder and cut a slot (vertical) on the
elevator (to about 3/16" away from the spar) and then cut the hole
in the rear spar to accept the cable. I used uni bits to cut the actual
hole(in the HS) and regular bit (can't remember the dia. needed but those
plastic things must fit and the cable must fit through the plastic thing)
on the elevator because I couldn't get a uni in their. Hope this helps.
Dan Boudro
RV-4 N9167Z
On Thu, 30 Nov 1995 aol.com!KHarrill(at)matronics.com wrote:
> HOW AND WHEN DO YOU CUT THE SLOT IN THE LEFT ELEVATOR FOR THE TRIM
> CABLE? IT'S CURIOUS THAT NEITHER VAN'S MANUAL NOR THE JUSTICE MANUAL PROVIDE
> ANY INFORMATION ABOUT THIS. MAYBE I JUST HAVEN'T FOUND IT. QUESTIONS:
>
> WHAT DO YOU USE TO MAKE THE CUT? CUT OFF WHEEL IN DIE GRINDER?
>
> DO YOU CUT FROM THE INSIDE BEFORE CLOSING THE ELEVATOR OR LATER?
>
> DO YOU BUILD AND FIT THE TRIM TAB FIRST TO MAKE SURE THE SLOT IT OPTIMALLY
> LOCATED?
>
>
> THE BENEFIT OF YOUR EXPERIENCE WILL BE APPRECIATED!!!
>
> KEN HARRILL
> RV-6
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Pneumatic squeezer vs. hand squeezer? |
There was extended discussion on this list about pneumatic squeezers a
few months ago. The gist of the discussion was that those who have one
for the most part wouldn't part with it, and those who don't, don't
know what they're missing. People seemed to be split on whether you
really need a hand squeezer if you have a pneumatic, but everyone
agrees that avery makes the best hand squeezer, especially since the
yokes are interchangeable with the pneumatic.
Personally I have pneumatic and love it. I think you could probably
manage without a hand squeezer, and instead buy some of
the specialized yokes.
Randall Henderson
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 Construction |
Regarding whether to wait for a "shakedown" of the initial
RV-8 kits before starting:
Yes if you wait to get started, improvements in the plans,
manuals and kit will certainly filter down, but with the
exception of any big glaring type problems they usually take
a while, so unless you want to put your project off for a
year or more, I wouldn't wait. Also the empennage is relatively
simple and so is less likely to have any big problems.
Randall Henderson
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: TRIM CABLE SLOT |
<951130100709_120897739(at)emout05.mail.aol.com>
| From: | Ed Weber <ebw(at)hpfiebw.fc.hp.com> |
> HOW AND WHEN DO YOU CUT THE SLOT IN THE LEFT ELEVATOR FOR THE TRIM
> CABLE? IT'S CURIOUS THAT NEITHER VAN'S MANUAL NOR THE JUSTICE MANUAL PROVIDE
> ANY INFORMATION ABOUT THIS. MAYBE I JUST HAVEN'T FOUND IT. QUESTIONS:
>
> WHAT DO YOU USE TO MAKE THE CUT? CUT OFF WHEEL IN DIE GRINDER?
>
> DO YOU CUT FROM THE INSIDE BEFORE CLOSING THE ELEVATOR OR LATER?
>
> DO YOU BUILD AND FIT THE TRIM TAB FIRST TO MAKE SURE THE SLOT IT OPTIMALLY
> LOCATED?
>
>
> THE BENEFIT OF YOUR EXPERIENCE WILL BE APPRECIATED!!!
Good questions, I would like to know also. But, please stop screaming :-).
--
Ed Weber Hewlett-Packard Company
voice: (303) 229-3241 ICBD Product Design
fax: (303) 229-6580 3404 E Harmony Road, MS 72
email: ebw(at)fc.hp.com Fort Collins, Co 80525
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Pneumatic squeezer vs. hand squeezer? |
>Hi all,
>
>Does anyone out there have experience with a pneumatic squeezer? Do they
>preclude the need for a hand squeezer? If so, do they offer enough advantages
>to justify the price?
>
>Just looking for opinions.
>
>Gordon Pratt
>Tooling up...
>
If you were able to use each tool for the amount of time you will be
using a squeezer on your project, I think you would pick the pneumatic
squeezer, no question. I wouldn't waste my money on a hand squeezer. The
pneumatic squeezer is considerably faster and easier to use. I would think
that could sell the squeezer for almost full purchase price to another
builder when you are done with it. How many "pre-owned" squeezers have you
seen for sale in Trade-A-Plane? The only way you could get mine is to pry
it from my cold, dead hand. I got mine from Avery. BTW, of all the tool
suppliers I've used, I like Avery's the best.
Just read a note about the weight of the pneumatic. With the deep
yoke, it is heavier than the hand. With a shorter throat, the pneu. is much
lighter. Generally, you will end up with more than one yoke. There is a
yoke that makes settin rvts in the trailing edge of elevators, ailerons,
etc. much easier. The long throat yoke is hard to get into some places
sometimes. As far as using the deep yoke to dimple farther in on the skins,
I try to dimple even easy to reach skin holes with the Avery tool. I have
found that using the Avery tool produces a little better dimple than the
squeezer, ising the same dies. Good luck. Bob (working on 2nd RV, 3rd
homebuilt)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank K Justice <Frank_K_Justice(at)ccm.ssd.intel.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 Construction |
Text item:
> I am really fired up to get started on an
>RV-8 when kits become available, but I wonder if it would be smart to wait
>several months to order the empennage kit after the initial offering to let
>the more active experienced builders who are also waiting, such as the
>Orndorffs, get a head start to work out any initial bugs.
There is no guarantee that waiting even a year will help much. Van's is slow to
fix bugs and there is no orderly process for collecting information to make it
available to all the builders.
You could be the one that finds all the bugs and publishes them. You don't have
to be an experienced builder to do that; in fact if you are writing instructions
it helps not to be an experienced builder. If you write it down it can be put on
the web page so everybody can be helped.
frank(at)ssd.intel.com
Text item: External Message Header
The following mail header is for administrative use
and may be ignored unless there are problems.
***IF THERE ARE PROBLEMS SAVE THESE HEADERS***.
Subject: RV-List: RV-8 Construction
From: "Johnson, Steve" <msmail.mmmg.com!spjohnson(at)matronics.com>
Date: 30 Nov 1995 08:55:29 -0600
4.1)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | OrndorffG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: TRIM CABLE SLOT |
When Becki and I build our planes we drilled the ends of the slot
with a unibit drill then cut out most of the rest with snipes and finished up
with a fill , this seemed to work for us....George Orndorff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ecole(at)ix.netcom.com (EDWARD COLE ) |
Fellow Builders,
Time has come to skin the Horizontal Stabilizer.....
I would appreciates some advice and/or comments on the following;
Has any one backdrilled the skins using an angle drill?
Is the best method to draw an outline of the ribs and spars onto the
inside of the skin as per Frank Justice's manual and thge Orndoff
videos.
What has worked best for you??
Thanks,
Ed Cole RV6A #24430 Empenage
ecole(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bobh(at)synopsys.com (Bob Haan) |
The method to draw an outline of the ribs and spars onto the inside of the
skin as in the Frank J. instructions and the O. Videos worked very well. I
used an ultra-fine Sharpie Tip and carefully marked the outlines. All the
holes came out in the center of the flanges.
>Fellow Builders,
>
>Time has come to skin the Horizontal Stabilizer.....
>I would appreciates some advice and/or comments on the following;
>
>Has any one backdrilled the skins using an angle drill?
>
>Is the best method to draw an outline of the ribs and spars onto the
>inside of the skin as per Frank Justice's manual and thge Orndoff
>videos.
>
>What has worked best for you??
>
>Thanks,
>Ed Cole RV6A #24430 Empenage
>ecole(at)ix.netcom.com
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Bob Haan Office 503-531-2366
Pacific Northwest Mobile 503-720-1132
Account Manager FAX 503-690-6906
Synopsys Modeling Group E-mail bobh(at)synopsys.com
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MGGX07C(at)prodigy.com ( SCOTT GESELE) |
| Subject: | rv-list: canopy rivet cracks |
While drilling the canopy on a -6A, some rivet holes started to
spider crack. I initially used the bits designed for plexiglass, but
as they started to get dull by also going through the aluminum, they
did not cut the plexiglass as well and now about 5 -10 holes started
to crack. The solution, from Van's, is to use a unibit. I finished
the canopy with it and no new cracks.
Question: are the small spider cracks something that I should worry
about, especially when the aircraft is operated in the winter? Is
there anything that can be done to fix this ? The longest crack is
only about 1/8" long.
-Scott
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gil(at)rassp.hac.com (Gil Alexander) |
| Subject: | Re: Request for Material - WWW |
Jeremy,
Isn't this going to make your site a duplication (or a repeat) of
John Hovan's Web Site?
If you are really going to represent Van's, the feedback should be
the other way. I personally would much prefer to see comments, articles,
PLANS/INSTRUCTIONS UPDATES, how-to articles, etc. come from the experts at
Vans factory .... after all, they do have more experience at building RVs
than most of us.
If it's not really a "Vans Aircraft" site (I find your e-mail
disclaimer a little strange) then does it really have any value-added over
John's Web site?? If it is somewhere in-between (a sort of semi-official
site) then the spectre of editorial control of negative comments is always
present in the background.
Perhaps you really need a clearly stated purpose for the site, and
an editorial policy statement?
I really believe that an "official" site could be a great benefit
to both Van and builders, and would have a greater 'market' than may be
realized. I, for one, spread comments from Internet and the RV-list
posting to local 'non-wired' builders, and I am sure many others do too.
... just my personal comments ... Gil Alexander (ready for flames)
gil(at)rassp.hac.com
>Update:
> The Van's Aircraft WWW page has had the restrictive quota on size
>removed. Therefore, expansion of the page is now possible.
>
>Wanted:
> Any user contributed material. Things like pictures of aircraft that
>have been completed, pictures of projects (especially), builders
>notes/logs, interesting stories, etc. Please e-mail me at the below
>address if you have anything.
>
>BTW:
> Does anyone have the dates for the Oregon Air Fair???
>
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
>| name://Jeremy Benedict | PP-ASEL-TD (since 1994) |
>| email://jbenedic(at)uofport.edu | Logged:C-150,RV-4,-6,-6A,-6B,-6T|
>| http://www.uofport.edu/~jbenedic | TT: 163.2 hrs TT-RV: 70.2 hrs |
>| voice://503.240.1528 | |
>|postal://Villa 114/5000 N. Willamette Blvd./Portland OR 97203-5754 |
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Van's "WebManager" -- http://www.earthlink.net/~rkhu/vans/
>
>Disclaimer: I do not work for Van's Aircraft, therefore any comments I
>might say or have said are purely of my own opinion (unless stated that
>the word is official). In addition, any (late) responses are my
>responsibility, and do not reflect the timeliness of Van's Aircraft.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | chinkley(at)ix.netcom.com (Curtis R. Hinkley ) |
| Subject: | Cost of Insurance |
Would any of you that have finished your RV6As mind telling us who you
are insured with and how much it is costing you. I know this is
personal but it would be of help in planning future expenses. If you
could include your liability limits and stated aircraft value that
would be very helpful.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ammeterj(at)ammeterj.seanet.com (John Ammeter) |
| Subject: | Re: Cost of Insurance |
>Would any of you that have finished your RV6A's mind telling us who you
>are insured with and how much it is costing you. I know this is
>personal but it would be of help in planning future expenses. If you
>could include your liability limits and stated aircraft value that
>would be very helpful.
RV-6, pilot total time 280 hours, tailwheel time (and time in type) 200
hours, $2,000,000 liability only cost about $352.00/year. I don't have hull
coverage since it would probably be prohibitive. I thing someone told me
that the hull coverage of a $50,000 RV-6 would be in the range of $2000 to
$3000/year. At that price, I couldn't afford the RV.
John Ammeter
ammeterj(at)ammeterj.seanet.com
Seattle WA, USA
RV-6 N16JA
Flying 5 years
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Shelby1138(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Middle Tennessee RVators |
A few of the builders here in Nashville had lunch today and decided to make
it a monthly affair. There were seven today but have counted in the mid
thirties for the area. Anyone interested in joining us can call Shelby Smith
at 615-726-3030.
Also, I am interested in the Rocky Mountain instruments. Rick Price, who is
writing the series in Kitplanes on instrument panels seems to like these. I
would appreciate in any thoughts from those who have installed these.
Just installed one of Steve Barnard's landing lights in my leading edge -
super clean and neat!
Shelby in Nashville
RV6A #22666
Wings.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Cost of Insurance |
suggest a quote from AVEMCO, also, look to an independent broker for NATIONAL
(small company in the South).
$30,000 hull and $500,000 liability, etc, bout a thousand.
You can get first hour coverage from AVEMCO, ifn you have TECHNICAL ADVISERS
(believe at least two) give a couple of visits, and so notify AVEMCO,
they have done so. Understand this will also give you a discount of some
sort.
Writing insurance on airplanes is real simple for the company: "You the
pilot comply
with all Federal Air Regulations and insurance applies, don't comply, i.e.
no medical, NO COVERAGE!"
MARVIN N63Tx(at)aol.com 582 hours, flew today.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
>Fellow Builders,
>
>Time has come to skin the Horizontal Stabilizer.....
>I would appreciates some advice and/or comments on the following;
>
>Has any one backdrilled the skins using an angle drill?
>
>Is the best method to draw an outline of the ribs and spars onto the
>inside of the skin as per Frank Justice's manual and thge Orndoff
>videos.
>
>What has worked best for you??
>
>Thanks,
>Ed Cole RV6A #24430 Empenage
>ecole(at)ix.netcom.com
>
> I would vote against back drilling with an angle drill. Too much of
a chance of sloppy holes and would probably be more time consuming than
other methods. I didn't use the tracing of ribs & spars. Thought that
there was a chance of mis-alignment. I just measured from appropriate
places along the jig to center lines on ribs and spars and made a map. For
a double check, I taped 1/4 x 1/4 x 1 1/4 inch magnets on the backside of
ribs and spars. aligned on the centerlines. After clamping the skin on, I
used a needle on a thread to locate center lines. This is a good double
check on your recorded measurements in case you wrote one down wrong or
something shifted. Bob Skinner
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RVator late?? |
<9511291702.AA25195(at)us1rmc.bb.dec.com>
| From: | Jack Abell <abell(at)rand.org> |
I talked to a guy at Van's a few days ago and he said that they were just
getting ready to mail the latest edition of the RVator. It ought to show
up any day now, I'd guess.
Jack Abell
RV-6A Rudder
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Hughes <mhughes(at)magick.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Request for Material - WWW |
>
> BTW:
> Does anyone have the dates for the Oregon Air Fair???
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> | name://Jeremy Benedict | PP-ASEL-TD (since 1994) |
> | email://jbenedic(at)uofport.edu | Logged:C-150,RV-4,-6,-6A,-6B,-6T|
> | http://www.uofport.edu/~jbenedic | TT: 163.2 hrs TT-RV: 70.2 hrs |
> | voice://503.240.1528 | |
> |postal://Villa 114/5000 N. Willamette Blvd./Portland OR 97203-5754 |
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Van's "WebManager" -- http://www.earthlink.net/~rkhu/vans/
>
> Disclaimer: I do not work for Van's Aircraft, therefore any comments I
> might say or have said are purely of my own opinion (unless stated that
> the word is official). In addition, any (late) responses are my
> responsibility, and do not reflect the timeliness of Van's Aircraft.
>
Oregon Air Fair is December 9 & 10
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rso(at)css.ncifcrf.gov (Becki Orndorff) |
| Subject: | Re: Middle Tennessee RVators |
Shelby,
Perhaps if you post when and where your monthly lunch is, others passing
through could stop by - if invited?
We have put Rocky Mountain Engine Monitors in both our 6A's and have
been very pleased with them. Minor problems have been corrected quickly and
easily through very competent and timely support from the company.
During run up the other day, one mag didn't sound right and the rpm drop
was too much. We have egt on each cylinder. With the monitor we were able
to pinpoint which plug wasn't firing and quickly correct the problem. Much
easier than other alternatives for problem resolution. It turned out the
plug had a lead deposit that prevented it from firing and when cleaned,
worked fine.
Happy flying.
Becki Orndorff
>A few of the builders here in Nashville had lunch today and decided to make
>it a monthly affair. There were seven today but have counted in the mid
>thirties for the area. Anyone interested in joining us can call Shelby Smith
>at 615-726-3030.
>
>Also, I am interested in the Rocky Mountain instruments. Rick Price, who is
>writing the series in Kitplanes on instrument panels seems to like these. I
>would appreciate in any thoughts from those who have installed these.
>
>Just installed one of Steve Barnard's landing lights in my leading edge -
>super clean and neat!
>
>Shelby in Nashville
>RV6A #22666
>Wings.
>
>
>
Becki Orndorff
NCI-FCRDC, Computer & Statistical Services
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | OrndorffG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Cost of Insurance |
Cirtis ;
The cost of insurance depends on value you place on the plane and other
factors. When Becki and I were looking for insurance we called the EAA for
info and was given a company to call .
AUA Inc.
Greensboro NC
Mac Mcgee
800-727-3823
All you need to do is tell Mac what you are looking for and he will get
you a bid. Mac's good to work with....George Orndorff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rkinder(at)gate.net |
| Subject: | Total costs of tools |
I've recently bought a set of plans and builder's manual for the RV-6/6A.
Now I'm in the study/negotiate-with-the-wife/start-buying-tools mode.
For the 2nd recommended list of tools in the RV FAQ, how much should I
plan to spend, assuming I buy from Avery?
Thanks.
--
# Robert Kinder # rkinder(at)gate.net #
# Software Engineer # Siemens Stromberg-Carlson # "You can't polish a turd."
# # Boca Raton, Florida # - Butt-Head
# All opinions are my own and do not reflect those of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David A. Barnhart" <barnhart(at)crl.com> |
On Thu, 30 Nov 1995, EDWARD COLE wrote:
> Has any one backdrilled the skins using an angle drill?
>
> Is the best method to draw an outline of the ribs and spars onto the
> inside of the skin as per Frank Justice's manual and thge Orndoff
> videos.
The angle drill might make it easier to backdrill the holes in the skin
near the leading edge, but as I recall, there was no problem drilling
them with a regular drill.
The Orndorff method of drawing the outline of the skeleton on the
backside of the skin works VERY WELL. My personal opinion is that it is
superior to any of the alternatives.
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
rv-6 sn 23744
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | lackerma(at)bigsean.rad.rpslmc.edu (lauren ackerman) |
| Subject: | Re: My experience with Cleveland's tank dies |
I have not heard of a rivit shaver before. Sounds like a good tool to
have. What is is, where can I get one and what does it cost. Also,
how well does it work?
Laurens Ackerman
----- Begin Included Message -----
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | aol.com!BPattonsoa(at)matronics.com |
| Subject: | Re: My experience with Cleveland's tank dies |
I used regular dies, from Avery. I avoided cleaning the Pro-Seal out of the
rivet dimples before inserting, even to the point of adding some with a Q-tip
when a cleco removed too much, or it seemed to be lacking. Much to my
amazement, every rivet was slightly proud. My experience on the outer L.E
sections said the rivets should have been perfect.
Without slosh the tanks were tight, which I guess is the primary objective.
I later got a rivet shaver and went over every rivet, taking a very thin cut
<5 thousands. The pro-seal holds the rivets out just a little. Since this
is where a tank will leak, I guess it is for the best. Were I to do another
one of these, I think I would dimple the skins, and then set my micro-stop to
take 2-5 thou. out and go over the holes with it. Would save the time and
trouble of shaving.
Bruce Patton
(Fues jig still for sale, all steel)
----- End Included Message -----
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David A. Barnhart" <barnhart(at)crl.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cost of Insurance |
On Thu, 30 Nov 1995 N63tx(at)aol.com wrote:
> Writing insurance on airplanes is real simple for the company: "You the
> pilot comply
> with all Federal Air Regulations and insurance applies, don't comply, i.e.
> no medical, NO COVERAGE!"
Boy, it's that sort of language in a policy that sets off the alarm bells
in my head. There is an FAR against operating an aircraft in an usafe
manner. EVERY accident breaks that FAR. Look at it this way, your
automobile insurance policy does not deny you coverage if if the accident
resulted from a violation of the Motor Vehicle Code, does it? Why should
your aircraft isurance policy be any different?
Now, having said that, my Bonanza was insured by Avemco, and I'm PRETTY
SURE that the policy did not contain such a broad exclusion.
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
rv-6 sn 23744
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Plains Electric EMS <pla_ems(at)nmia.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Total costs of tools |
robert-
I spent about $1000 on small speciality tools (including a pneumatic
squeezer) this is not counting my shop tools air drill/band saw/die
grinder/compressor/etc. If you have to negotiate with the wife about
the cost of the tools I'd seriously consider not starting this project.
These airplanes tend to consume money by the bucket, tool costs are
a very small part. Also the project will consume huge amounts of your
time, if she's not backing you up you may have to decide between
the project/divorce/seperation/bitterness...Fortunately for me, I
can't get my wife out of the shop; she has done floor boards, seats,
panels by herself plus bucked every rivet in the AC; chased around
for parts; provided food for both of us. I don't think I could get this
thing done w/o her support.
Dan Boudro
RV-4 N9167Z
On Fri, 1 Dec 1995 gate.net!rkinder(at)matronics.com wrote:
> I've recently bought a set of plans and builder's manual for the RV-6/6A.
> Now I'm in the study/negotiate-with-the-wife/start-buying-tools mode.
>
> For the 2nd recommended list of tools in the RV FAQ, how much should I
> plan to spend, assuming I buy from Avery?
>
> Thanks.
>
> --
> # Robert Kinder # rkinder(at)gate.net #
> # Software Engineer # Siemens Stromberg-Carlson # "You can't polish a turd."
> # # Boca Raton, Florida # - Butt-Head
> # All opinions are my own and do not reflect those of my employer.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BHamlin1(at)aol.com |
Also coat hanger wire taped onto the centerlines of the backs of the
ribs/spars flanges,
then put the skins on, then use a stud finder to 'read' the location of the
wires thru
the skins.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6junkie(at)aol.com |
Well time for the resident Aviation Isurance broker to speak-up. (This is NOT
an advertisement)!
The cost of insurance will depend on many factors (total pilot time, time in
type, hull value, limit of liability and TYPE of limits, to name a few).
There are very few companies that will write insurance for homebuilts. Those
that do consider the RV line to be the most desirable. If you contact your
favorate insurance broker, have him obtain quotes from COMAV or Southern,
they do a good job and are well priced. However, if you like to talk to a
direct writer, AVEMCO does a good job (I have heard several nightmares
regarding claims, so be carefull). You'll find that the above companies will
be be with-in $100 to $200 (depending on coverage) of each other.
For the average RV pilot (250+ TT, 100 TW) expect to spend about $1,200 -
$1,300. This is based on a $50,000 hull and $1,000,000/100,000 limits.
For you new guys just finishing your planes, you will spend slightly more
untill you get some RV time. It will help you greatly (from a cost stand
point as well as a safety stand point) to get as much tail wheel time as
possible before completing your RV.
Insurers will like to see 250 TT, 50 to 100 TW. Having an instrument rating
will generally save you a few bucks. If you can get 10 to 25 hours in an RV
that will help a lot.
I'll clear up some points from other posts. AVEMCO and National are THE SAME
COMPANY. National sells a striped down AVEMCO policy that isn't worth the
$50 to $100 you'll save. BTW, AVEMCO will dicker a bit to make a sale.
If you want quotes from a broker, choose one and don't jump around to 2 or 3.
The insurers will release the same quote to each (they log you into their
system by name and N#). The insurers will get sick of seeing your name pop-up
so often and will get the impression that you are price shopping only, which
of course you are.
As far as not insuring the hull, that's a tough call. My RV cost about
$40,000 to build, and it wasn't with spare cash sitting around. If I lost
the airplane my family would suffer a financial hardship. Additionally, if
you have a partner, I think that it is irresponible to the other to have
him/her suffer financially because of your mishap. But money is money. BTW,
DON'T attempt to save money by under insuring the hull. If you do this, the
plane may be totaled with only minor damage. I would hate to see an
insurance company take your $50,000 RV, that was insured for $30,000, due to
$20,000 of damage.
I hope that the above is helpful. If anybody has an insurance question,
don't hesitate to contact me.
Gary Corde
RV-6 N211GC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dierks(at)austin.ibm.com |
| Subject: | Total costs of tools (fwd) |
Someone should put approx pricing in the tools list on FAQ.
You should get Avery's catalog. call 1800 652-8379.
Cleveland tool is at 515 432 6794 (I think they have an 800 number now also).
I see Avery's Tail starter kit is priced at $525.
His RV delux kit is priced at $1,020.
In addition, you would need an air compressor, get at least 2HP.
This would be around 325 or so. If you have a compressor of lower HP,
go ahead and use it. It is the drilling that sucks the air.
Lots of folks use battery powered drills a lot also.
From there on there are lots of optional items like band saw, drill
press, belt/disk sander, etc. You can see most of these in Sears
or other catalogs. I bought most of my used via the news paper want ads.
You can find good (older model metal not plastic junk) Sears and Delta
tools on the used market.
The squeezer is another 'nice to have' at around $425.
A lot depends on what you have already, like a compressor, drill press, etc.
> Subject: RV-List: Total costs of tools
> Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 09:34:45 -0500 (EST)
> X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24]
>
> I've recently bought a set of plans and builder's manual for the RV-6/6A.
> Now I'm in the study/negotiate-with-the-wife/start-buying-tools mode.
>
> For the 2nd recommended list of tools in the RV FAQ, how much should I
> plan to spend, assuming I buy from Avery?
>
> Thanks.
>
> --
> # Robert Kinder # rkinder(at)gate.net #
> # Software Engineer # Siemens Stromberg-Carlson # "You can't polish a turd."
> # # Boca Raton, Florida # - Butt-Head
> # All opinions are my own and do not reflect those of my employer.
>
Herman Dierks, Dept. E54S, AWSD Austin, Texas
mail: dierks(at)austin.ibm.com VM: DIERKS at AUSVM6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Johnson, Steve" <spjohnson(at)msmail.mmmg.com> |
| Subject: | Total costs of tools |
>For the 2nd recommended list of tools in the RV FAQ, how much should I
>plan to spend, assuming I buy from Avery?
Well, I've just gone through that exercise. I have some minor disagreement
with the list as given in the FAQ after much discussion and monitoring this
list for awhile. I think the best choice is to go with the pneumatic rivet
squeezer, band saw, and air compressor from list three. Band saw is a 12"
Delta floor model for about $390, air compressor (not oilless) with 4 hp and
26 gallon tank and 6.8 CFM capacity 135 psi max, about $400. The rivet
squeezer is $425. I would eliminate the hand rivet squeezer from list two. I
went with a floor mount drill press to get the low speed, about $365.
Figuring the finished plane will cost you about $40,000 (gulp), do you really
want to save money at this stage by going with a hand squeezer, low power air
compressor, and no band saw?
I had very good luck with Cleaveland Tools. Their dimple and riveting arbor
is a bit different than Avery's, and they give you plans for a table to fit
around the arbor to hold skins perpendicular as you dimple.
Good luck,
Steve Johnson
spjohnson(at)mmm.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ecole(at)ix.netcom.com (EDWARD COLE ) |
| Subject: | Re: Total costs of tools |
You wrote:
>
>I've recently bought a set of plans and builder's manual for the
RV-6/6A.
>Now I'm in the study/negotiate-with-the-wife/start-buying-tools mode.
>
>For the 2nd recommended list of tools in the RV FAQ, how much should I
>plan to spend, assuming I buy from Avery?
>
>Thanks.
>
>--
># Robert Kinder # rkinder(at)gate.net #
># Software Engineer # Siemens Stromberg-Carlson # "You can't polish a
turd."
># # Boca Raton, Florida # - Butt-Head
># All opinions are my own and do not reflect those of my employer.
>
Robert,
Assuming you don't have any sheet metal tools already, plan on spending
at least $800-1000 at Avery's (Great tools, by the way) plus the cost
of a compressor if you don't already have one. Other items you'll need
include a drill press, band saw, sanding equipment, etc. You will also
visit your local Home Improvement store at least once a week. It is
expensive to start up, but the overall cost in the long run is a small
percentage of what you'll spend on the entire aircraft. Anyhow, it's
worth it.
Ed Cole RV6A #24430 Empennage
ecole(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
Thanks Gary, it's nice to get some real, informed info on insurance for
homebuilts.
I am curious about one thing however. You talked about insurance
companies "like to see" 250 hrs TT, 50 to 100 TW, etc. This is a lot
more specific than I've been able to get before, but still pretty
vague. I'm sure the insurance companies use tables for this sort of
thing, but I wish I could SEE one! For example, I'm sure I would
qualify for a good rate based all of the factors you have listed, but
what is the NEXT break? I sure wish I could see one of those tables.
What would the chances be of someone being able to get ahold of one? It
seems like the insurance companies are deliberatly vague about this.
Randall Henderson
RV-6
> Well time for the resident Aviation Isurance broker to speak-up. (This is NOT
> an advertisement)!
>
> The cost of insurance will depend on many factors (total pilot time, time in
> type, hull value, limit of liability and TYPE of limits, to name a few).
> There are very few companies that will write insurance for homebuilts. Those
> that do consider the RV line to be the most desirable. If you contact your
> favorate insurance broker, have him obtain quotes from COMAV or Southern,
> they do a good job and are well priced. However, if you like to talk to a
> direct writer, AVEMCO does a good job (I have heard several nightmares
> regarding claims, so be carefull). You'll find that the above companies will
> be be with-in $100 to $200 (depending on coverage) of each other.
>
> For the average RV pilot (250+ TT, 100 TW) expect to spend about $1,200 -
> $1,300. This is based on a $50,000 hull and $1,000,000/100,000 limits.
>
> For you new guys just finishing your planes, you will spend slightly more
> untill you get some RV time. It will help you greatly (from a cost stand
> point as well as a safety stand point) to get as much tail wheel time as
> possible before completing your RV.
> Insurers will like to see 250 TT, 50 to 100 TW. Having an instrument rating
> will generally save you a few bucks. If you can get 10 to 25 hours in an RV
> that will help a lot.
>
> I'll clear up some points from other posts. AVEMCO and National are THE SAME
> COMPANY. National sells a striped down AVEMCO policy that isn't worth the
> $50 to $100 you'll save. BTW, AVEMCO will dicker a bit to make a sale.
>
> If you want quotes from a broker, choose one and don't jump around to 2 or 3.
> The insurers will release the same quote to each (they log you into their
> system by name and N#). The insurers will get sick of seeing your name pop-up
> so often and will get the impression that you are price shopping only, which
> of course you are.
>
> As far as not insuring the hull, that's a tough call. My RV cost about
> $40,000 to build, and it wasn't with spare cash sitting around. If I lost
> the airplane my family would suffer a financial hardship. Additionally, if
> you have a partner, I think that it is irresponible to the other to have
> him/her suffer financially because of your mishap. But money is money. BTW,
> DON'T attempt to save money by under insuring the hull. If you do this, the
> plane may be totaled with only minor damage. I would hate to see an
> insurance company take your $50,000 RV, that was insured for $30,000, due to
> $20,000 of damage.
>
> I hope that the above is helpful. If anybody has an insurance question,
> don't hesitate to contact me.
>
> Gary Corde
> RV-6 N211GC
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dierks(at)austin.ibm.com |
Gary, this was a very good note and advice and it reflects what
I have learned from shopping around for insurance.
I have usually done the best by going to one broker and they will
'shop' for you and give you the results. I have typically got
more insurance for my $$ this way than going with National or Avemco
(however I am not knocking them).
The advice on not underinsuring the hull is also very good advice.
Herman
> From root Fri Dec 1 12:08:12 1995
> Errors-To: bounces(at)matronics.com
> From: aol.com!RV6junkie(at)matronics.com
> Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 11:26:45 -0500
> Message-Id: <951201112644_62255292(at)emout05.mail.aol.com>
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: Insurance
> Sender: owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Precedence: junk
> Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>
> Well time for the resident Aviation Isurance broker to speak-up. (This is NOT
> an advertisement)!
>
> The cost of insurance will depend on many factors (total pilot time, time in
> type, hull value, limit of liability and TYPE of limits, to name a few).
> There are very few companies that will write insurance for homebuilts. Those
> that do consider the RV line to be the most desirable. If you contact your
> favorate insurance broker, have him obtain quotes from COMAV or Southern,
> they do a good job and are well priced. However, if you like to talk to a
> direct writer, AVEMCO does a good job (I have heard several nightmares
> regarding claims, so be carefull). You'll find that the above companies will
> be be with-in $100 to $200 (depending on coverage) of each other.
>
> For the average RV pilot (250+ TT, 100 TW) expect to spend about $1,200 -
> $1,300. This is based on a $50,000 hull and $1,000,000/100,000 limits.
>
> For you new guys just finishing your planes, you will spend slightly more
> untill you get some RV time. It will help you greatly (from a cost stand
> point as well as a safety stand point) to get as much tail wheel time as
> possible before completing your RV.
> Insurers will like to see 250 TT, 50 to 100 TW. Having an instrument rating
> will generally save you a few bucks. If you can get 10 to 25 hours in an RV
> that will help a lot.
>
> I'll clear up some points from other posts. AVEMCO and National are THE SAME
> COMPANY. National sells a striped down AVEMCO policy that isn't worth the
> $50 to $100 you'll save. BTW, AVEMCO will dicker a bit to make a sale.
>
> If you want quotes from a broker, choose one and don't jump around to 2 or 3.
> The insurers will release the same quote to each (they log you into their
> system by name and N#). The insurers will get sick of seeing your name pop-up
> so often and will get the impression that you are price shopping only, which
> of course you are.
>
> As far as not insuring the hull, that's a tough call. My RV cost about
> $40,000 to build, and it wasn't with spare cash sitting around. If I lost
> the airplane my family would suffer a financial hardship. Additionally, if
> you have a partner, I think that it is irresponible to the other to have
> him/her suffer financially because of your mishap. But money is money. BTW,
> DON'T attempt to save money by under insuring the hull. If you do this, the
> plane may be totaled with only minor damage. I would hate to see an
> insurance company take your $50,000 RV, that was insured for $30,000, due to
> $20,000 of damage.
>
> I hope that the above is helpful. If anybody has an insurance question,
> don't hesitate to contact me.
>
> Gary Corde
> RV-6 N211GC
>
--
--------------------------------------------------------
*NOTICE for internet mail*: Any ideas or thoughts expressed here are my
own and are independent of my employer.
Herman Dierks, Dept. E54S, AWSD Austin, Texas
AIX Network Performance Measurement/Analysis
phone: TL 678-2831 outside: (512) 838-2831
ZIP: 9632 fax: 512-838-1801
mail: dierks(at)austin.ibm.com VM: DIERKS at AUSVM6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cadet James F. Caplinger, x4311" <CaplingerJF98%CS35%USAFA(at)cadetmail4.usafa.af.mil> |
charset=US-ASCII
Hi,
I am thinking about buying an RV-4 and though I would LOVE to
build an RV myself, I just don't have any time or space available. I
don't know too much about RV's, but I want to. What do any of you think
about buying a used RV-4? What kind of things should someone look for in
a used home built to make sure it was made well etc. I have seen them
with many different price-tags but I am not sure what a good price for a
well build one would be. One last thing, what are the limitations on
maneuvers and things that the plane can do? What makes it better than
others?
Thanks for any help,
Jamie
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
| Subject: | Total costs of tools |
>
>
>>For the 2nd recommended list of tools in the RV FAQ, how much should I
>>plan to spend, assuming I buy from Avery?
>
>Well, I've just gone through that exercise. I have some minor disagreement
>with the list as given in the FAQ after much discussion and monitoring this
>list for awhile. I think the best choice is to go with the pneumatic rivet
>squeezer, band saw, and air compressor from list three. Band saw is a 12"
>Delta floor model for about $390, air compressor (not oilless) with 4 hp and
>26 gallon tank and 6.8 CFM capacity 135 psi max, about $400. The rivet
>squeezer is $425. I would eliminate the hand rivet squeezer from list two. I
>went with a floor mount drill press to get the low speed, about $365.
>
>Figuring the finished plane will cost you about $40,000 (gulp), do you really
>want to save money at this stage by going with a hand squeezer, low power air
>compressor, and no band saw?
>
>I had very good luck with Cleaveland Tools. Their dimple and riveting arbor
>is a bit different than Avery's, and they give you plans for a table to fit
>around the arbor to hold skins perpendicular as you dimple.
>
>Good luck,
>
>Steve Johnson
>spjohnson(at)mmm.com
>
I used a table top, 3-wheel Delta band saw on my first RV.
Cost-around $100. I Buy a couple of extra blades (56 1/8" 1/4" wide, 14
tpi) and some LPS cutting fluid (suitable for cutting alum.) I use a small
hand-held belt sander as opposed to the larger, stationary kind and find it
more versitle. Also, a Dremel tool is very handy.
Bob Skinner RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bryan J. Welch" <bryan(at)drmail.dr.att.com> |
| Subject: | Denver/Rocky Mountain RVaters? |
I'm hoping to start building next year some time, but right now I'd
like to get experience helping current RV builders. Does anyone
here know of a Denver or Rocky Mountain RVaters group? I heard of
one but lost the contact number.
thanks,
-Bryan
(looking for a place to build so I can order a kit)
--
Bryan J. Welch, AT&T Bell Laboratories - bryan(at)dr.att.com - N0SFG
----- I have seen the future, and it is a prototype. -----
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Curt Reimer <Curt_Reimer(at)MBnet.MB.CA> |
> >Is the best method to draw an outline of the ribs and spars onto the
> >inside of the skin as per Frank Justice's manual and thge Orndoff
> >videos.
This method worked well for me. I also built the wings this way. My only
advice would be to
1) mark as accurately as you can
2) provide alignment marks on the *outside* of the skin somewhere so you
can realign the skin after drilling it.
3) mark the location of all flutes and mark any other location
where you don't want to drill/put a rivet.
4) when drilling your rivet holes in the skin, bias the location of the
holes 1/16" towards the "open" side of the rib, rather than right in the
center fo the rib flange. This will avoid having
rivets too close to the main web of the rib & thus being difficult to
dimple and rivet. At least, this works for me. YMMV.
Curt Reimer
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dierks(at)austin.ibm.com |
| Subject: | Re: Cost of Insurance (fwd) |
Many policies use to have the wording that if you broke a FAR then the
coverage was voided. Many policies have now removed that wording
because as you point out, it is impossible to not violate something,
esp. if you have an accident.
I would check this policy wording and only buy a policy that is not
voided if you brake a FAR. Some may require that you have a current
medical (just an example), which is reasonable.
Herman
>
>
> On Thu, 30 Nov 1995 N63tx(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> > Writing insurance on airplanes is real simple for the company: "You the
> > pilot comply
> > with all Federal Air Regulations and insurance applies, don't comply, i.e.
> > no medical, NO COVERAGE!"
>
> Boy, it's that sort of language in a policy that sets off the alarm bells
> in my head. There is an FAR against operating an aircraft in an usafe
> manner. EVERY accident breaks that FAR. Look at it this way, your
> automobile insurance policy does not deny you coverage if if the accident
> resulted from a violation of the Motor Vehicle Code, does it? Why should
> your aircraft isurance policy be any different?
>
> Now, having said that, my Bonanza was insured by Avemco, and I'm PRETTY
> SURE that the policy did not contain such a broad exclusion.
>
> Best Regards,
> Dave Barnhart
> rv-6 sn 23744
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dierks(at)austin.ibm.com |
Rivet Shaver is a special cutter that goes into your 'micro-stop' tool
that you use for counter-sinking. It has a flat head with cutting flutes
on it. You set the micro-stop so that the cutter just touches the skin.
Then you put it on top of the offending rivet (this is all attached to
your air drill) and push it down and it shaves off the top of the rivit
that is sticking above the skin.
Sounds simple, but just like countersinking with the micro-stop tool,
it takes some practice.
This is $22.50 from Avery for example. Avery's has multiple flutes on it
and it works OK. I have see some older style one with just a few flutes
and they may not work as well.
Herman
>
> I have not heard of a rivit shaver before. Sounds like a good tool to
> have. What is is, where can I get one and what does it cost. Also,
> how well does it work?
>
> Laurens Ackerman
Herman Dierks, Dept. E54S, AWSD Austin, Texas
mail: dierks(at)austin.ibm.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dierks(at)austin.ibm.com |
In many cases, you can buy a homebuilt for less than you can build it for.
Therefore, buying a homebuilt can be a 'good deal'.
However, most RV's are selling at more than the cost of materials to build them.
You should not buy a homebuilt without taking someone with you that
has built one. There are lots of things that you can screw up building
a homebuilt. In many cases, it takes someone that has built that type of
aircraft to spot the problems. I would look for someone on this rv-list
or contact Van's aircraft for some builders in your area that can help you
look for a good RV. Your normal A&P or IA just does not know what to
look for on these homebuilts to ensure they were properly built.
Some of the problems may not be a safety problem and you can live with them
but you can use the problem to lower the price of the AC.
In other cases, I have seen some that you would not care to fly in much
less own.
You also have all the normal issues of engine time, avionics, general condition
(tires, battery, paint, etc). Was it built with new or used instruments and
avionics.
Also, talk to some of the other builders in the area when you find your
'dream machine'. They will often know if the plane is good quality and
the background on the builder. They will also know of things that may not
be in the log books (like a prop strike). The seller may 'forget' to tell
your about these issues.
The price depends a lot on the engine and avionics and such. A full IFR
plane built with a new engine and avionics will sell for a lot more than
one with 1000 SMOH and VFR pannel.
I think your basic RV4's are selling around $40,000.
By the way, there is a RV4 in the Austin Tx area that may be for sale.
It was mostly built by Tony Bengiles (sp?) and completed by the current
owner. He is thinking of a Pitts. The exterior is not painted (except
for the fiberglass parts) so you can see all the workmanship and still
paint it the way you want it. It is VFR aircraft. I think the price
is 39,000. It has been flying for several years. Don't have any more
details at this time.
Herman
> From: "Cadet James F. Caplinger, x4311" <cadetmail4.usafa.af.mil!CaplingerJF98%CS35%USAFA(at)matronics.com>
> Subject: RV-List: re:RV-4
> Hi,
> I am thinking about buying an RV-4 and though I would LOVE to
> build an RV myself, I just don't have any time or space available. I
> don't know too much about RV's, but I want to. What do any of you think
> about buying a used RV-4? What kind of things should someone look for in
> a used home built to make sure it was made well etc. I have seen them
> with many different price-tags but I am not sure what a good price for a
> well build one would be. One last thing, what are the limitations on
> maneuvers and things that the plane can do? What makes it better than
> others?
>
> Thanks for any help,
>
> Jamie
--------------------------------------------------------
*NOTICE for internet mail*: Any ideas or thoughts expressed here are my
own and are independent of my employer.
Herman Dierks, Dept. E54S, AWSD Austin, Texas
mail: dierks(at)austin.ibm.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gil(at)rassp.hac.com (Gil Alexander) |
| Subject: | Re: rivet shaver |
> Rivet Shaver is a special cutter that goes into your 'micro-stop' tool
> that you use for counter-sinking. It has a flat head with cutting flutes
> on it. You set the micro-stop so that the cutter just touches the skin.
> Then you put it on top of the offending rivet (this is all attached to
> your air drill) and push it down and it shaves off the top of the rivit
> that is sticking above the skin.
>
> Sounds simple, but just like countersinking with the micro-stop tool,
> it takes some practice.
Guys,
There are some specs. on rivet shaving:
Max. head protrusion prior to shaving:
3/32 rivet 0.006 inches
1/8 rivet 0.007 inches
And, after you are all done --
Minimum head diam. after shaving:
3/32 rivet 0.161 inches
1/8 rivet 0.204 inches
The Mil. specs. reccommend a shaver diam. of 3/8 inch for all rivet
sizes up to 5/32.
To quote the spec.
"3.3.7 Shaving countersunk rivets. Rivets failing to meet flushness
requirements may be shaved to new close tolerances. The material surface
shall not be damaged by the shaving tools. The stop device on the shaver
shall be adjusted so that it extends 0.001 to 0.002 inch beyond the cutter
and the setting shall be tested prior to shaving the rivet head."
The rest of this section refers to a table giving the above dimensions.
Meet the above numbers, and the riveted joint is still strong
enough for a military aircraft (and probably your local EAA Tech.
Counselor!) or an RV. The minimum head diam. numbers should be used by
those guys fixing rivet protrusions with a sanding disk at painting time as
per a recent posting. Don't get carried away with the sander!
... hope this helps ... Gil Alexander
gil(at)rassp.hac.com
RV6A, #20701 ... fitting canopy frame
>
> This is $22.50 from Avery for example. Avery's has multiple flutes on it
>
> and it works OK. I have see some older style one with just a few flutes
> and they may not work as well.
> Herman
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jcimino(at)jcimino.microserve.com (Jim Cimino) |
>Hi,
> I am thinking about buying an RV-4 and though I would LOVE to
>build an RV myself, I just don't have any time or space available. I
>don't know too much about RV's, but I want to. What do any of you think
>about buying a used RV-4? What kind of things should someone look for in
>a used home built to make sure it was made well etc. I have seen them
>with many different price-tags but I am not sure what a good price for a
>well build one would be. One last thing, what are the limitations on
>maneuvers and things that the plane can do? What makes it better than
>others?
>
>Thanks for any help,
>
>Jamie
>
>I belong to an EAA chapter that has built two RV-4's and has an RV-6 test
flying now.
One of the RV-4's is for sale and very nice for I beleive under 40K. The
main person
responsible for building it owns a sheet metal shop. If you might be
interested, let me know and I will get you in touch with its owner. Contact
me at jcimino(at)jcimino.microserve.com
Jim Cimino RV-4 sn4079 or maybe an RV-8
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | chinkley(at)ix.netcom.com (Curtis R. Hinkley ) |
| Subject: | Cost of Insurance Thanks. |
I would like to thank all of you that provided your input concerning
the cost of insurance.
Curtis.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | chinkley(at)ix.netcom.com (Curtis R. Hinkley ) |
| Subject: | Re: Total costs of tools |
You wrote:
>
>I've recently bought a set of plans and builder's manual for the RV-6/6A. >Now
I'm in
the study/negotiate-with-the-wife start-buying-tools mode.
>For the 2nd recommended list of tools in the RV FAQ, how much should I >plan to
spend,
assuming I buy from Avery?
>
>Thanks.
Robert,
My two friends and myself just recently completed George & Beckis RV building
class.
The building class was first rate and I would recommend it to any one thinking
about
building an RV. Since completing the class we have prepared the following list
of tools
for the project. As you can see they are all from Avery, this is because of all
of the
good things said on the RV-List about Avery and because we used Avery tools in
the
building class. The tools were first class. The list looks expensive, however
keep in
mind that you are starting a 35K to 45K project and your time is valuable, why
turn a
2000 hour project into a 3000 hour project because you dont have the right tools.
AVERY TOOL LIST
1995 Catalog
Tool Name Page Part # Quantity Price When
Total
Hand riveting & Dimpling
tool 12 #01001 1 $110.00
$110.00
Rivet tool base support
block 12 #01004 1 $9.00
$9.00
Rivet arbor return
spring kit 12 #01005 1 $4.50
$4.50
Hand Seamer 3 1/2" jaw 13 #00575 1 $24.00 $24.00
Baby hand seamer 1 1/2" jaw 13 #00590 1 $23.50
$23.50
Fluting pliers 13 #00500 1 $24.00
$24.00
Dimple Die 3/32" 14 #3/32 DDS 1 $26.00 $26.00
Dimple Die 1/8" 14 #1/8 DDS 1 $26.00 $26.00
Dimple Die #6 screw 14 #6 DDS 1 $26.00 Wing
$26.00
Dimple Die #8 screw 14 #8 DDS 1 $26.00 Wing
$26.00
Dimple Die 3/32"
Female Flat 14 #14850 1 $14.75
$14.75
Dimple Die 1/8" Female Flat 14 #14851 1 $14.75
$14.75
2X Aircraft riveting gun 16 #0200X 1 $175.00
$175.00
Air line swivel regulator 17 #00957 1 $19.00
$19.00
Nesco 3/8" Air drill 18 #00420 1 $75.00
$75.00
Mini Right angle drill
attachment 21 #00915 1 $85.00 Wing
$85.00
Mini threaded drill
#30 1/2" stubby 21 #2130 1 $2.90 Wing
$2.90
Mini threaded drill
#30 11/4" short 21 #3130 1 $2.60 Wing
$2.60
Mini threaded drill
#40 1/2" stubby 21 #2140 1 $2.90 Wing
$2.90
Mini threaded drill
#40 11/4" short 21 #3140 1 $2.60 Wing
$2.60
Avery hand rivet
squeezer 2" yoke 22 #9420 1 $185.00
$185.00
Squeezer set 6pc. 24 #06006 1 $30.50
$30.50
Pneumatic rivet
squeezer 3" yoke 25 #7530 1 $435.00
$435.00
Bucking bar 26 #00610 1 $15.00
$15.00
Bucking bar 26 #00615 1 $17.00
$17.00
Bucking bar 26 #00620 1 $22.00
$22.00
Rivet gun rivet set
1/8" 3 1/2" 28 #04704 1 $6.50
$6.50
Rivet gun rivet
set 1/8" 7 1/2" 28 #04724 1 $13.00
$13.00
Flush swivel rivet set 29 #01047 1 $31.00 $31.00
Flush rivet set with guard 29 #01049 1 $10.00
$10.00
Spare rubber grommet 29 #1049-1 1 $1.25
$1.25
Back riveting rivet set 29 #01048 1 $16.00
$16.00
Clecos 3/32" (#40) 30 #01016 300 $0.33
$99.00
Clecos 1/8" (#30) 30 #01017 50 $0.33
$16.50
Clecos 3/16" (#10) 30 #02019 10 $0.33
$3.30
Side grip cleco 1" reach 30 #01014 20 $1.95
Wing $39.00
Short cleco 3/32" (#40) 31 #01013 10 $0.42
$4.20
Shop head rivet gauge set 34 #01007 1 $10.00
$10.00
Rivet length gauge 34 #01008 1 $3.50
$3.50
AN bolt gage 34 #01350 1 $9.00
$9.00
C-Clamps 2" 40 #01420 2 $8.00
$16.00
C-Clamps 3" 40 #01430 3 $8.00
$24.00
Instrument hole drill
template 42 #09355 1 $10.00
$10.00
Circle cutter 1 3/4 - 8" 43 #00055 1 $19.50
$19.50
Edge rolling tool 44 #01042 1 $11.25
$11.25
Rivet cutter 44 #01300 1 $19.00
$19.00
Andy Aluminum snips 12" 45 #52303 1 $25.00
$25.00
Riveters tape 46 #00811 2 $3.00
$6.00
Cobalt aircraft drills #40 50 #40 1 $5.00
$5.00
Cobalt aircraft drills #30 50 #30 1 $4.40
$4.40
Cobalt aircraft drills
#12 (3/16) 50 #12 1 $5.20
$5.20
Cobalt aircraft
drills 3/16" 50 #3/16 1 $4.30
$4.30
Cobalt aircraft drills 1/4" 50 #1/4 1 $3.30
$3.30
Extension drill 6 x 40 51 #6x40 1 $2.10
$2.10
Extension drill 6 x 30 51 #6x30 1 $2.20
$2.20
Extension drill 6 x 3/16 51 #6x3/16" 1 $2.50
$2.50
Extension drill 12 x 40 51 #12x40 1 $5.00
$5.00
Extension drill 12 x 30 51 #12x30 1 $5.10
$5.10
Drill stop set 51 #01100 1 $8.00
$8.00
Micro-stop countersink cage 52 #19360 1 $26.00
$26.00
Stop countersink cutter #40 52 #01051 1 $7.50
$7.50
Stop countersink cutter #30 52 #01052 1 $7.50
$7.50
Stop countersink cutter
#27 (#6 screw) 52 #01053 1 $7.50
$7.50
Stop countersink cutter
#20 (#8 screw) 52 #01054 1 $7.50
$7.50
Black & Decker Bullet
drill 1/8" 53 #14308 1 $3.75
$3.75
Strap duplicator #40 54 #01120 1 $10.00
$10.00
Strap duplicator #30 54 #01125 1 $10.00
$10.00
Unibit 1/4" - 3/4" 56 #ubx3 1 $30.00
$30.00
Speed deburring tool 58 #01046 1 $19.00
$19.00
Swivel head deburring tool 58 #01043 1 $8.00
$8.00
Double edge deburring tool 58 #01044 1 $9.00
$9.00
NOXON center punch 60 #3200-1 1 $9.00
$9.00
Vixen File 61 #00710 1 $19.00
$19.00
Aluminum File set 61 #00750 1 $32.00
$32.00
Scotch-Brite wheel "Medium" 62 #03753 1 $39.00
$39.00
Jig Fixture brackets 66 #10740 1 $20.00
$20.00
Hinge Line Alignment
Bushings 66 #10745 1 $5.50
$5.50
UH-OH Rivet Kit 67 #1097 1 $18.00
$18.00
Locking C-Clamp 6" 67 #4818 2 $12.00
$24.00
TOTAL $2,150
DISCOUNT 7% $150.52
$2,000
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | crazer(at)midwest.net (Chester Razer) |
Hey Ed, here's an idea if you are hesitant about marking the skins. First,
predrill the skeleton with a No. 41 bit. Then clamp the skin. Then lift
one side as if you were going to mark the outline of the skeleton on the
inside of the skin like Orndorff does in his video. Instead of marking,
back drill the skeleton and skin with a 12" No. 40 bit. Using this method
absolutely insures no misdrilled holes.
Chet Razer
crazer(at)midwest.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JDAviator(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Tool Question |
Been reading the rv-list for about a month. What a terrific support
resource! Time to get my feet wet.
I am in the "RV-wannabe" stage. My wife is supportive of my desire to
undertake a homebuilt project. From what I've read and heard, this is an
important first step. I think she is going have Santa provide a drill press
for my shop. I'm curious if a floor-style drill press is required for
building the RV-series of aircraft, or if a bench top unit will suffice.
Also, does it need to be a minimum of 10", 14", etc. (as measured front to
back)? Santa needs hints.
I'm waiting on my first issue of the RVator (sounds like everyone is waiting
for the latest issue). If anyone is aware of an RVator group in central
Ohio, I'd appreciate hearing from you.
Looking forward to contributing in the future
Jerry Allison
wanting an RV-8
JDAviator(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Mayer <72652.670(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | RE: Total costs of tools |
Having recently finishing negotiating with my wife and having gotten a
ride in Ron Rinaldi's RV-4, I just bought the empennage kit and tools to
start. Here are my suggestions..
I bought the Avery complete kit as a start. I'm compiling a list of
tools that I think I need that weren't included, such as side-grip
Cleeco's, Hinge center bushings, Jig fixture bracketts, fan spacing tool
to name a few. I'm trying to not order till after Christmass, but will
probably place an order within the next few days. The kit will get you
going.
MIke Henning said to buy a band saw, so that's in the basement, as well as
the drill press and grinder. I've also had my eye on a 1" belt/disc sander.
John Walsh said he cut out the VS doubler with his sabre saw, and I was going
to do that too, until I decided to bite the bullet for the band saw.
Shop locally for generic machinist tools, and don't forget discount houses in
your area. I bought some ScotchBrite pads at the local hardware store for
$2.50 and found them at a closeout shop for $.99.
If you have the time, check out the local Want-Advertiser or Classifieds for
power tools that you'll need. Another alternative is to buy as you need it.
Prioritise your purchases. I bought the compressor first, but haven't
needed it yet. I HAVE needed the shopvac, though, as well as woodworking
tools to assemble the jig.
Cost so far is approaching $2k, and it's bound to climb further. I think it
was Cheryl Sanchez who projected $3k for tools, and I don't doubt her, now.
Regarding the study part... Find someone who is building an RV6/6A if you
haven't already and pick up all the knowlege that you can.
Steve Mayer
>I've recently bought a set of plans and builder's manual for the RV-6/6A.
>Now I'm in the study/negotiate-with-the-wife/start-buying-tools mode.
>
>For the 2nd recommended list of tools in the RV FAQ, how much should I
>plan to spend, assuming I buy from Avery?
Thanks.
--
# Robert Kinder # rkinder(at)gate.net #
# Software Engineer # Siemens Stromberg-Carlson # "You can't polish a turd."
# # Boca Raton, Florida # - Butt-Head
# All opinions are my own and do not reflect those of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bcos(at)ix.netcom.com (William Costello ) |
| Subject: | Re: Tool Question |
You are right. This is a tremendous group. I have reaped many
benefits since I became a member last August.
I have a bench-top drill press (Sears) and it seems to work fine. I am
sure there is a little 'play' in the chuck, but I think it is within
tolerances (you still tend to get what you pay for). I guess it would
cost over a grand to get an industrial grade one and I spent about
$150. I haven't found a need to drill anything very deep into the
part, so my approx 9 inch clearance is fine. However, note that I am
only on the empennage, so you will want to hear from others who are on
the fuselage.
Best of luck in your decision.
Bill Costello
RV-6 on empennage
Chicago
bcos(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | B F Gibbons <bfgibbons(at)intellinet.com> |
| Subject: | Squeezer Modification |
I purchased the dimple dies from Avery that are cut down to allow =
dimpling in tight places, like against the rear spar in the horizontal. =
What was I thinking? The squeezer I have (also from Avery) won't allow =
me to get in close anyway. Seems like I read somewhere about grinding =
down the nose on the squeezer so it will accept a cut down die. Has =
anyone done this? Has everyone but me done this? Should I just use my =
bench grinder and grind away, or are there other considerations here?
I am not happy with the rivets in the skin on the trailing edge of my =
horizontal and plan to drill them out, counter sink a little deeper, and =
replace the rivets. One of the problems I had was fitting the squeezer =
when the rivet line was a little close to the spar. I want to get this =
resolved before I spend time drilling out all those rivets.
Your thoughts?
BFG
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | B F Gibbons <bfgibbons(at)intellinet.com> |
For anyone out there in the "just thinking about it" stage... I still =
have a complete set of plans and instructions for RV4 wings. This is a =
great opportunity to see what you're getting into (and it will really =
get you pumped up to get started). =20
E-mail me at bfgibbons(at)intellinet.com and the plans are yours. I'll =
even spring for the postage. It's hard to get a better deal than that!
B F Gibbons
just starting first wing - RV6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | B F Gibbons <bfgibbons(at)intellinet.com> |
This is not an attempt to start another discussion on the merits of fast =
build kits... but someone asked the other day about the BAC option, so =
if you've resolved the question of the morality of using supplemental =
kits and are considering the BAC option, here are a few observations:
1) Quality. The quality of the BAC kit is just excellent. There is no =
question that the workmanship far exceeds my own (your mileage may =
vary). If you're hesitant about buying the kit because you're concerned =
about quality, rest easy.
2) $$$. This option sure runs up the cost of the project, but I'm in =
this to have fun (see # 3 below) and after all, it's only money - right? =
Surely the kids will understand this Christmas.
3) Enjoyment. The part I really like about home building is the =
assembly process. I didn't particularly like the manufacturing part of =
building the empennage (please, no flaming! to each his own :>) ). =
The BAC kit allows me to focus on assembly. =20
4) Time. No doubt I'll get the wings finished sooner than I would =
without the BAC option. I don't know how many hours of construction it =
saves, but I believe it will be easier to get charged up to work on the =
project so I'll probably be more consistent in spending time in the shop =
(see # 3 above). This is not a huge deal to me really. 2005, 2006... =
what's the difference?
5) Errors. I believe the BAC kit will help me reduce errors during =
construction. For example; The rear spar doublers are cut and =
assembled in the BAC kit. It would be virtually impossible to build two =
left rear spars or to attach to the wrong side of the rear spar. The =
pre bent doublers will only fit one way, and they are labeled right and =
left. Viola! A rear spar is born.
=20
6) Instructions. I pretty much followed the empennage instructions =
like a cook book, but I've spent a lot of time reading wing =
instructions, looking at plans, and trying to visualize the end result =
on the wings. The BAC kit complicates this somewhat. I have to =
understand which of the instructions have already been complied with and =
which still need to be done. Not as easy as it sounds. Like I said, I =
have spent a lot of time reading and studying plans. A trip to see =
someone else's wings under construction has been a huge help.
If I had it to do over again, I would. Like I say, fast build kits =
aren't for everyone. There are people out there who actually have the =
skill, time, skill, patience, and skill to construct plans built RV's. =
I can only shake my head and pay homage. Others like the kits just the =
way they are and deep down think of the BAC options as "cheating". More =
power to 'em. If you love to manufacture components, the BAC kit will =
cut down on your fun. As for me, it's a perfect solution to the "I =
think I'll watch cartoons instead of cut out and prime the 18 stiffeners =
waiting for me in the shop" problem I had with the tail.
BFG
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Horizontal Stabilizer Construction |
| From: | Jack Abell <abell(at)rand.org> |
I wanted to report on my recent completion of my second horizontal
stabilizer. I discarded the first one after making several errors and was
very unhappy with it. In constructing the first one, I followed the
procedure shown in the Orndorff video: clamp, lift one side, mark the
outline of the skeleton on the other side, etc. For me, the marking was
sufficiently inaccurate that I had quite a few holes that weren't quite
right. During the construction, for example, I broke a dimpling die
because I had drilled holes too close to the spar web. In general, I was
very unhappy with the quality of the work I had done.
I reported this experience, along with my decision to start over again, and
Chet Razer responded to my e-mail with his suggestion that I drill out the
skeleton with a #41 drill bit, clamp the skin in place, lift one side, and
backdrill with a 12 in. #40 bit. It worked beautifully. The placement of
the holes was perfect, so perfect if fact that at one point I mistakenly
switched the left and right skins and was almost completely finished
clecoing one in place before I realized that I had the wrong skin. In my
opinion, this method enables you to prepare your skeleton and skins as
precisely as you are able to measure, mark, and drill. There is no error
introduced by the process of marking the outline of the skeleton on the
inside of the skin, a task I found to be especially difficult for some
reason, probably my damned bifocals.
I'm grateful to Chet for his suggestion, and I'm very pleased with the
outcome. I finally have a horizontal stabilizer that I'm proud of.
Good luck to all.
Jack Abell
RV-6A Rudder
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mdonohou(at)wyoming.com (maureen donohoue) |
| Subject: | Re: Rocky Mountain Instruments |
>>Shelby in Nashville said;
>>(stuff deleted)
>>Also, I am interested in the Rocky Mountain instruments. (Stuff deleted) I
>>would appreciate in any thoughts from those who have installed these.
>
>I have had the Rocky Mountain Instruments Microencoder installed in my rv-3 for
>about four
>years. I normally set the field elevation into the altimeter, and then tune in
>ATIS to verify
>that they are reporting the correct station pressure setting. It doesn't get
>much better than that.
>
>I'm interested in what anyone has to say about the RMI engine monitor. I am
>considering putting both instruments in a rv-4 when I get it built.
>
>Jim Ayers
>LOM RV-3
>102337.2252(at)compuserve.com
>
>I constructed both the Rocky Mountain Instruments Microencoder and
Micromonitor from RMI's kits and they are currently flying in my RV4.
I have been extremely satisfied with both units. The kit instructions and
materials are excellent and are suitable for someone has no previous
experience with electronic kits.
Jim Howell
RV4 N221JM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bcos(at)ix.netcom.com (William Costello ) |
| Subject: | Re: Rocky Mountain Instruments |
Does someone have the address and/or phone number of Rocky Mountain
Instruments? Thanks.
Bill Costello
RV-6 on empennage
Chicago
bcos(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | HMJW50A(at)prodigy.com (MR TIM A HATFIELD) |
| Subject: | Squeezer Modification |
<<< I purchased the dimple dies from Avery that are cut down to allow
=
dimpling in tight places, like against the rear spar in the
horizontal. =
What was I thinking? The squeezer I have (also from Avery) won't
allow =
me to get in close anyway. Seems like I read somewhere about
grinding =
down the nose on the squeezer so it will accept a cut down die.>>>
I used the bench gringer to "shape" my hand squeezer and it worked
just fine.
I just received a new pumatic squeezer from Avery. Wish I had got it
earlier. At 60 yrs I'm
not as stroung as I used to be, and not looking for 'Popeye arms' Ha.
Not going to do any grinding on it for sure.
Cecil Hatfield on Wings (RV-6A
in California
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | HMJW50A(at)prodigy.com (MR TIM A HATFIELD) |
| Subject: | Squeezer Modification |
(((I purchased the dimple dies from Avery that are cut down to allow
=
dimpling in tight places, like against the rear spar in the
horizontal. =
What was I thinking? The squeezer I have (also from Avery) won't
allow =
me to get in close anyway. Seems like I read somewhere about
grinding =
down the nose on the squeezer so it will accept a cut down die. )))
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Squeezer Modification |
>I purchased the dimple dies from Avery that are cut down to allow dimpling
in tight places, like against the rear spar in the horizontal. What was I
thinking? The squeezer I have (also from Avery) won't allow me to get in
close anyway. Seems like I read somewhere about grinding down the nose on
the squeezer so it will accept a cut down die. Has anyone done this? Has
everyone but me done this? Should I just use my bench grinder and grind
away, or are there other considerations here?
>
>I am not happy with the rivets in the skin on the trailing edge of my
horizontal and plan to drill them out, counter sink a little deeper, and
replace the rivets. One of the problems I had was fitting the squeezer when
the rivet line was a little close to the spar. I want to get this resolved
before I spend time drilling out all those rivets.
>
>Your thoughts?
>
>BFG
> I'll bet just about every builder has cut down some sets and
squeezer yokes. I did on my pnuematic squeezer yoke and had no problems. I
ground it down and polished with a scotch brite wheel and did the same to
the set. It seems that after doing all of this work and having to be very
carefull while setting rivets close to spar webs, etc., that one is less
likely to drill in poorly located rivets in the future. Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | donmack(at)interaccess.com (Don Mack) |
| Subject: | Re: BAC fast build |
I used their light kits, which are excellent.
Has anyone heard or tried the firewall kit that they were working on last August?
>This is not an attempt to start another discussion on the merits of fast =
>build kits... but someone asked the other day about the BAC option, so =
>if you've resolved the question of the morality of using supplemental =
>kits and are considering the BAC option, here are a few observations:
>.....
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Denver/Rocky Mountain RVaters? |
>I'm hoping to start building next year some time, but right now I'd
>like to get experience helping current RV builders. Does anyone
>here know of a Denver or Rocky Mountain RVaters group? I heard of
>one but lost the contact number.
The editor ot the Rocky Mountain RVators newsletter is Dennis Walsh, 4011 S.
Magnolia Way, Denver, CO 80237 (303-232-0176). The cost for a year's
subscription to the quarterly newsletter is $5.
Bob,
In Colorado Springs, getting ready to do the Pro-Seal thing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ChrisL3064(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | IFR (Instrument Flight & Research) Gyros |
I purchased 2 gyros-a DG and Atitude gyro from Van's Aircraft-both built by a
company in Kansas called Istrument Flight and Research(hence the IFR!)
--first mistake was buying them too early-they sat around until I finished my
RV-6. Both never worked from the start. My entire vacuum system is brand
new--Vacuum guage shows 5 " of suction. Finally sent them back to the factory
in June--both were rebuilt and reTSO'd. The Atitude gyro worked for 1-2
months--the DG tracks for 1-2 minutes and just starts spinning! The factory
guru assures me that the instruments are not at fault!(where have I heard
that before!)--there is something wrong with my system. Have gone over it
completely with no help---finally have turned up the regulator to show 5.5"
suction--things are better but not reliable. I am finding out from various
insturment companies that IFR equipment "stinks".(Always nice to find out now
after spending the bucks for same!) Anyone flying IFR gyros? Anyone with
similar experience? Any other suggestions?(besides biting the bullet and
buying new gyros?) Thanks for any info!
ChrisL3064(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JamesCone(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Rocky Mountain Instruments |
I have this system. It is everything that they say and then some. Factory
support is great. Get one!
This is my second airplane with one.
Jim Cone
RV-6A working on finsishing kit.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JamesCone(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Squeezer Modification |
Grind away, it won't hurt a thing.
Jim Cone
RV-6A Working on finishing kit
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mdonohou(at)wyoming.com (maureen donohoue) |
| Subject: | Re: Rocky Mountain Instruments |
>Does someone have the address and/or phone number of Rocky Mountain
>Instruments? Thanks.
>
> Bill Costello
> RV-6 on empennage
> Chicago
> bcos(at)ix.netcom.com
>Rocky Mountain Instrument
P.O. Box 683
Thermopolis, WY 82443
307-864-9300
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | B F Gibbons <bfgibbons(at)intellinet.com> |
Good Grief! Van is missing out on a marketing opportunity here.
I received about a dozen requests from the list and direct responses. =
The first response I received was from Michael Polak so I'll send him =
the plans.
Michael, if you'll e-mail me at bfgibbons(at)intellinet.com with you =
address I'll get them in the mail. I'll ask you to offer them again on =
this list when you're finished. You can repay me for the postage by =
paying the freight when you mail them to someone else.
Good luck with your decision. I'll make it easy for you... if you have =
$150,000 to spend on the finished airplane, buy a Glasair III. If not, =
there is no other choice but RV.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jpl(at)showpg.mn.org (Joe Larson) |
Did anyone see this month's Kitplanes? They have a good article concerning
the ergonomics of panel layout. It's to be continued next month.
The article really got me thinking. The author wasn't very specific on
the sorts of things he's suggesting, but I like the end goal.
Basically, he points out how ergonomically bad most of the production planes
we've all flown can be. His best example involves the light switches in a
C-172. You can't tell by feel -or- look which switch is which. There are no
distinquishing marks or colors or anything, so you have to squint around the
control yoke to read the legend underneath the switch -- impossible at night
and difficult as the airplane wears and the letters fade.
Anyways, if you haven't already read the article, I would recommend picking
up a copy. And now I'm thinking about things like different colored toggles
on my switches and similar sorts of things to make switch identification
easier, cut down on clutter, etc.
-Joe
--
Joe Larson jpl(at)showpg.mn.org 612-595-9690(w)
Showpage Software, Inc.
435 Ford Rd, Suite 315
St. Louis Park, Mn 55426 Future RV-6A pilot.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WCannon313(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Location of electrical components |
I am beginning the wiring phase of my RV-6 project, and would appreciate any
information and advice as to the location of the major components. I am
specifically interested in the best location for the starter and battery
contactors, the voltage regulator(B&C LR-3), the fuel flow transducer, and
amperage transducer for my Visiom Microsystems VM-1000. All advice is
welcomed...from "experts" and those that just have an opinion.
Walt Cannon RV-6 on the gear
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
>Did anyone see this month's Kitplanes? They have a good article concerning
>the ergonomics of panel layout. It's to be continued next month.
>
>The article really got me thinking. The author wasn't very specific on
>the sorts of things he's suggesting, but I like the end goal.
>
>Basically, he points out how ergonomically bad most of the production planes
>we've all flown can be. His best example involves the light switches in a
>C-172. You can't tell by feel -or- look which switch is which. There are no
>distinquishing marks or colors or anything, so you have to squint around the
>control yoke to read the legend underneath the switch -- impossible at night
>and difficult as the airplane wears and the letters fade.
>
>Anyways, if you haven't already read the article, I would recommend picking
>up a copy. And now I'm thinking about things like different colored toggles
>on my switches and similar sorts of things to make switch identification
>easier, cut down on clutter, etc.
>
>-Joe
>
>--
>Joe Larson jpl(at)showpg.mn.org 612-595-9690(w)
>Showpage Software, Inc.
>435 Ford Rd, Suite 315
>St. Louis Park, Mn 55426 Future RV-6A pilot.
>
The Kitplanes article had some good ideas. Another good source of
information with good ideas is the AeroElectic Connection put out by Bob
Nuckolls. Compuserve ID 72770,552. Address:6936 Bainbridge Rd., Wichita,
Kansas 67226-1008. I really like his thoughts on system reliability. I'm
going to use his idea on fuseblocks with blade type fuses on my next RV. I
figured that I could have saved around $ 400 on my panel installation on my
RV-6 without compromising quality.
On my RV-6, I have 6 toggle swithc/circuit breakers: Fuel boost pump
and radio master located under the radio stack and nav light, land light,
taxi light and strobe mounted on the right side of the panel. I put
indicator lights above the fuel boost and radio master. (also put light for
master on and a light that comes on when the electric primer is activated)
With 6 switches mounted as above, it's not hard to figure out what's what.
By the time you have your panel done, you'll have everything memorized .
Bob Skinner RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Digital Instruments |
| From: | Jack Abell <abell(at)rand.org> |
It's interesting to read all of the recent e-mail on the Rocky Mountain
Instruments Micro-Encoder and Micro-Monitor. I don't think purely digital
data are all that easily or quickly processed. If a pilot looks at a
purely digital display, especially one with as much data in it as these
kinds of displays, it requires substantial mental processing to interpret.
I've never flown with such a display, so I'm just thinking out loud here.
I'm guessing that such displays require longer familiarization times than
analog displays, and also require longer interpretation and response
times.
In his recent articles on designing an instrument panel (Kitplanes December
and January issues and, apparently, February's as well), Rick Price points
out some of the features of and differences between the Rocky Mountain
Micro-Monitor and the Vision Micro Systems VM-1000 engine instrumentation
systems in the context of a discussion about combining functions in
instruments. He says, "Looking at the analog portion of the VM-1000
alongside the Micro-Monitor illustrates the strengths and weaknesses of
each. Digital displays are ideal for presenting accurate information in a
compact fashion while analog displays consume space and cannot be read as
accurately (for eaxample, you would be hard pressed to tell the difference
between 458 deg. and 459 deg. on an analog display). The big advantage of
analog displays is that high and low limits can be presented right on the
display. Thus, with just one look, you can see if your engine is 'in the
green' or approaching a limit. With a pure digital display, the pilot must
either know the limits or be content to wait for an alarm (not
recommended)."
Price's remarks have a lot of resonance for me. When I look at the VM-1000
display, it's really easy to see if everything is in the green. I think
it's easy to "read" the VM-1000 display for that purpose in about a second
or, perhaps, slightly more. Reading and interpreting the Micro-Monitor
display seems likely to require several seconds, time during which my head
is in the cockpit vs outside, monitoring my engine performance vs my
primary flight instruments, etc. The beauty of the VM-1000 is that it
combines digital and analog data in a single, space-saving display. If I
want more precise data than the analog display provides, I can get it
immediately.
I think it matters a lot whether you do much instrument flying and to what
purposes you put your aircraft. Consolidated digital displays might be
quite sufficient for a "sport" aircraft, so to speak. They certainly save
a lot of space and are very economical. On the other hand, I think in this
case you sort of get what you pay for.
For those interested in digital engine monitoring systems, I would suggest
reading the article "Sensor Mania" by Thoral Gilland in the November 1995
issue of Kitplanes. He discusses at some length Grand Rapids Technologies'
Engine Information System. It might be an attractive alternative to the
Rocky Mountain installation. I haven't heard any pilot reports on it
though, and I think the Rocky Mountain system is well regarded.
Just my thoughts on the subject, for what they're worth. I've learned one
thing from screwing around with my panel design: It's difficult to get all
I want in the space of an RV panel. Any one of these systems helps save
space in contrast to individual instruments for every function.
Good luck to all.
Jack Abell
RV-6A Rudder
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Location of electrical components |
>I am beginning the wiring phase of my RV-6 project, and would appreciate any
>information and advice as to the location of the major components. I am
>specifically interested in the best location for the starter and battery
>contactors, the voltage regulator(B&C LR-3), the fuel flow transducer, and
>amperage transducer for my Visiom Microsystems VM-1000. All advice is
>welcomed...from "experts" and those that just have an opinion.
>
>Walt Cannon RV-6 on the gear
>
Walt: I put mounted the battery and starter contactors on the
firewall, inside the cockpit, right above the battery. That made for a
short connection from bat to bat contactor and kept the two contactors out
of the heat. I installed nutplates for AN-3 bolts. I mounted the volt.
reg. on the sub-panel for easy access (tip-up canopy). RV-6's with wood
props could use weight up front so if you have room, maybe the firewall
would be a good location for the VM-1000. I've never seen the parts that
make up the VM-1000 but am considering using this system on my next RV. I
would appreciate hearing from anyone with their thoughts on this system.
Thanks, Bob Skinner RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CAP10ZOOM(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Rocky Mountain Instruments |
We get EXCELLENT reports on this company and it's products. We operated one
of the units for a while... and rather liked them.
Jim Campbell
US Aviator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CAP10ZOOM(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: IFR (Instrument Flight & Research) Gyros |
> I am finding out from various
>insturment companies that IFR equipment "stinks".(Always nice to find out
now
>after spending the bucks for same!) Anyone flying IFR gyros? Anyone with
>similar experience? Any other suggestions?(besides biting the bullet and
>buying new gyros?) Thanks for any info!
That's not the first report we've heard about IF&R... Give me a call if you
think I can help you get anywhere with this company. This does not sound
right...
Jim Campbell
US Aviator
813-294-6396
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Curt Reimer <Curt_Reimer(at)MBnet.MB.CA> |
| Subject: | Re: Squeezer Modification |
On Sat, 2 Dec 1995, B F Gibbons wrote:
You might try bucking them with a gun and small bucking bar. I did a few
that way. Put a piece of duct tape on the end of the bucking bar so it
doesn't mess up your H.S. spar flange and you might be able to buck the
ones that are too close to squeeze. I shudder to think about grinding up
an $80 squeezer jaw.
Curt Reimer
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dougweil(at)mail.pressenter.com (Doug Weiler) |
| Subject: | Re: Tool Question |
>I am in the "RV-wannabe" stage. My wife is supportive of my desire to
>undertake a homebuilt project. From what I've read and heard, this is an
>important first step. I think she is going have Santa provide a drill press
>for my shop. I'm curious if a floor-style drill press is required for
>building the RV-series of aircraft, or if a bench top unit will suffice.
> Also, does it need to be a minimum of 10", 14", etc. (as measured front to
>back)? Santa needs hints.
>
>I'm waiting on my first issue of the RVator (sounds like everyone is waiting
>for the latest issue). If anyone is aware of an RVator group in central
>Ohio, I'd appreciate hearing from you.
>
>Looking forward to contributing in the future
>
>Jerry Allison
>wanting an RV-8
>
>JDAviator(at)aol.com
>Jerry:
I personally found that a bench top drill press was more than adequate. I
have Delta's Bench Top model 11-990 (1-inch) and has met all of my needs
thus far. Welcome to the RV-List and good luck!!
****************************************************
* Doug Weiler, pres. MN Wing Van's AirForce
* 347 Krattley Lane
* Hudson, WI 54016
* 715-386-1239
* email: dougweil(at)mail.pressenter.com
****************************************************
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dougweil(at)mail.pressenter.com (Doug Weiler) |
| Subject: | Re: Denver/Rocky Mountain RVaters? |
Bryan:
The Rocky Mt Rvators is headed by Dennis Walsh. They put out a quarterly
newsletter. He can be reached at
4011 S. Magnolia Way
Denver, CO 80237
(303) 756-6543
****************************************************
* Doug Weiler, pres. MN Wing Van's AirForce
* 347 Krattley Lane
* Hudson, WI 54016
* 715-386-1239
* email: dougweil(at)mail.pressenter.com
****************************************************
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Ruble <cruble(at)cisco.com> |
| Subject: | Aircraft dismantler? |
Does anynody have the phone number of a good dismantler that they could
send my way? The northern California area would be best but anything will
do.
Thanks --Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Stephen Bell <steve(at)discus.lincoln.ac.nz> |
>> ......
>> Has anyone backdrilled using an angle drill.
>> ......
> > I would vote against back drilling with an angle drill.
.......
> I didn't use the tracing of ribs & spars. Thought that
> there was a chance of mis-alignment. I just measured from appropriate
> places along the jig to center lines on ribs and spars and made a map. For
> a double check, I taped 1/4 x 1/4 x 1 1/4 inch magnets on the backside of
> ribs and spars. aligned on the centerlines. After clamping the skin on, I
> used a needle on a thread to locate center lines. This is a good double
> check on your recorded measurements in case you wrote one down wrong or
> something shifted. Bob Skinner
>
I also measured the rib & spar centrelines relative to the jig.
I marked "heavy" black centre lines onto the spar & rib flanges
clamped the skin into position then one by one drilled "locating" holes
by drilling through the skin only then looking through the hole to check it
is centred over the black line on the rib/spar then completing the hole.
[ The LE of the HS centre front ribs can easily move out of alignment and will
probably need "tweaking" back into line. ]
If you do get it badly wrong the hole in the skin (HS & VS skins) can be
filled with a rivet. [lightly m/countersink both sides of the hole, rivet &
file both sides smooth.]
Cross check your measurements for the locating holes by using more than
one method/reference point. [make that double cross check.. :) ]
Watch out for "flute"/rivet placing/"flange end point" clashes (I marked
out my rivet spacing patterns onto aluminium strips which I could lay onto
the skin).
With an assistant I peeled back the skin on the opposite side and checked
every hole (one driller , one checker )
Early on I almost screwed up when I was working on my own and switched to
checking every 2nd or 3rd hole to speed things up.
With more practise I could work quite quickly on my own by being more
meticulous about establishing the start & finish point of the rivet lines.
one method I have found useful for locating rib positions is to slide
a thin strip of aluminium or plastic under the skin so that it rests
against the rib flange edge or web to get measurements relative to the
skin edge.
Hope this helps,
Steve.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
steve(at)discus.lincoln.ac.nz
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
| Subject: | Threeway fuel valve |
I'm using the original 3-way fuel valve that Van's included in the
kit. After 190 hours the valve started to bind. I dis-assembled the valve
and lapped the valve, cleaned and re-lubed it with "Fuel Lube". The valve
seemed to work on the bench OK. Today, I went out to button up the RV and
tested the valve and it seemed to stiffen up and bind again. Also, the
"clicks" are barely noticable if there at all. Any ideas?
Also, any ideas on how to make removal of the valve any less messy?
I had 8 & 12 gallons of fuel in the tanks. It sure looks like the valve
sits higher than the tanks, but it sure seemed to let out a lot of fuel when
I went to take the valve out. Sitting in the cockpit with gas-soaked rags
doesn't seem like a great idea. I finally ended up draining both tanks.
Would raising the tail (RV-6) and draining fuel out of the gascolator purge
the lines? If the "clicks" are missing, did I assemble the valve wrong?
Thanks, Bob Skinner
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ammeterj(at)ammeterj.seanet.com (John Ammeter) |
| Subject: | Re: Threeway fuel valve |
> I'm using the original 3-way fuel valve that Van's included in the
>kit. After 190 hours the valve started to bind. I dis-assembled the valve
>and lapped the valve, cleaned and re-lubed it with "Fuel Lube". The valve
>seemed to work on the bench OK. Today, I went out to button up the RV and
>tested the valve and it seemed to stiffen up and bind again. Also, the
>"clicks" are barely noticable if there at all. Any ideas?
> Also, any ideas on how to make removal of the valve any less messy?
>I had 8 & 12 gallons of fuel in the tanks. It sure looks like the valve
>sits higher than the tanks, but it sure seemed to let out a lot of fuel when
>I went to take the valve out. Sitting in the cockpit with gas-soaked rags
>doesn't seem like a great idea. I finally ended up draining both tanks.
>Would raising the tail (RV-6) and draining fuel out of the gascolator purge
>the lines? If the "clicks" are missing, did I assemble the valve wrong?
>Thanks, Bob Skinner
>
I had the same problem with original 3-way valve. In fact, the valve would
get to the point that I was worried that it would break while turning. I
was over at John Sturgis's project and happened to try his valve (new, never
installed). It turned almost effortlessly and had very audible clicks.
The old valve had a brass 'cone' while the new valve had what seemed to be a
'teflon' cone. The new valve Van's supplies is a 'four-way' valve with the
new 'cone'. Just plug the unused hole.
You might have left out the stainless balls that provide the click. In any
case, not important as you need to replace the valve anyway. The new valve
will solve the problem of clicking and will turn much easier. By the way,
if the tanks have any fuel in them other than 2 or 3 gallons you are likely
to have gas leaking around the cockpit.
good luck
John Ammeter
ammeterj(at)ammeterj.seanet.com
Seattle WA, USA
RV-6 N16JA
Flying 5 years
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ammeterj(at)ammeterj.seanet.com (John Ammeter) |
| Subject: | Re: Aircraft dismantler? |
> Does anynody have the phone number of a good dismantler that they could
>send my way? The northern California area would be best but anything will
>do.
>
> Thanks --Chris
>
What are you dismantling? And why do you want to dismantle it? Just curious!!
John Ammeter
ammeterj(at)ammeterj.seanet.com
Seattle WA, USA
RV-6 N16JA
Flying 5 years
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Osgood <74774.54(at)compuserve.com> |
I am just about finished with my tail kit and am getting ready to hibernate for
the Minnesota weather. Before I begin on the wings in the spring I would like
to have thought through and prepared for any options I might consider. So... I
am looking for tips on options for the wings, such as instruments, lights, etc.
Thanks
Rick
RV6A tail done (almost) in MN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | crazer(at)midwest.net (Chester Razer) |
| Subject: | Rocky Mountain Micromonitor |
I'm curious about tools and hours necessary to build the Micromonitor and
Rocky Mountain Instruments Microencoder. I've never built electronics
before but then I've never built an airplane before either.
chet razer in sparta, Il - expect to begin prosealing left tank tomorrow
Chet Razer
crazer(at)midwest.net
________________________________________________________________________________
--
>>>> I am just about finished with my tail kit and am getting ready to hibernate
for
**** Command 'i' not recognized.
>>>> the Minnesota weather. Before I begin on the wings in the spring I would
like
**** Command 'the' not recognized.
>>>> to have thought through and prepared for any options I might consider. So...
I
**** Command 'to' not recognized.
>>>> am looking for tips on options for the wings, such as instruments, lights,
etc.
**** Command 'am' not recognized.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks
**** Command 'thanks' not recognized.
>>>>
>>>> Rick
**** Command 'rick' not recognized.
>>>> RV6A tail done (almost) in MN
**** Command 'rv6a' not recognized.
>>>>
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**** Commands must be in message BODY, not in HEADER.
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| Subject: | Rocky Mountain Micromonitor |
--
>>>> I'm curious about tools and hours necessary to build the Micromonitor and
**** Command 'i'm' not recognized.
>>>> Rocky Mountain Instruments Microencoder. I've never built electronics
**** Command 'rocky' not recognized.
>>>> before but then I've never built an airplane before either.
**** Command 'before' not recognized.
>>>>
>>>> chet razer in sparta, Il - expect to begin prosealing left tank tomorrow
**** Command 'chet' not recognized.
>>>>
>>>> Chet Razer
**** Command 'chet' not recognized.
>>>> crazer(at)midwest.net
**** Command 'crazer(at)midwest.net' not recognized.
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bcos(at)ix.netcom.com (William Costello ) |
| Subject: | Shopping for Electronic Level |
Hi Folks,
I am in the market for an electronic level. So far, I've got the names
SmartLevel and Macklanburg-Duncan that Avery has in their catalog. The
local Ace has the SmartLevel for just under $90. I called a large
discount center -- Menard's -- here in Chgo and the guy said over the
phone that he had a Mac-Dunc for 'around $20'. He said it is about a
10 inch torpedo. Since that is QUITE a bit less than Avery, I asked if
it fit into a metal rail and he said he did not think so. Anyone
familiar with this and is it useable?
What are some of the other sources and approx prices that you have
used? Are there other brands/sources that are better and/or cheaper?
I hope this doesn't sound too demanding. I will appreciate any info
you have at all. Thanks much.
Bill Costello
RV-6 on emp
Chicago
bcos(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Shelby1138(at)aol.com |
Ric Price the author of the two Kitplanes articles demo'd his alarm
enunciator(sp) at our last chapter meeting(162 In Nashville). You record, in
your own voice, whatever warning you want to hear when whatever parameter
gets out of range low or high. It was pretty neat and will be sold through
Aircraft Spruce and probably the others also.
Check it out.
Shelby in Nashville
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Total costs of tools |
Hello Curtiss:
How are the plans going for your RV? Have you three guys decided which
plane you will build first? I had a great time at George and Becky's class
with your group and would enjoy learning of your progress.
Send me a note sometime and let me know how it is going. My email is
campi5(at)aol.com
Say hello to Tim and Mike for me.
Fernando Campoamor
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MGGX07C(at)prodigy.com ( SCOTT GESELE) |
Any advice on building the wings? Sure, get Orndorf's tapes. I
found them to be extremely helpful during my wing construction. The
whole series of tapes is a good investment when building an RV.
Don't worry about instrument or lights too much now. Your only
commitment during the wing construction will be the fuel level
senders and inverted or non-inverted tanks. I am not planning on the
full inverted fuel and oil system, but built one tank with the flop
tube anyway. If I change my mind later, it will not be necessary to
rebuild one tank. If it is never used for inverted flight, the flop
tube will not hurt anything by being there. Even those decisions
will be way down the road. Nav and landing lights can all be
installed with the wings on the fuse, either in the wing tips or
leading edge (landing light only).
Hope this helps.
-Scott
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MGGX07C(at)prodigy.com ( SCOTT GESELE) |
| Subject: | Shopping for Electronic Level |
I have been using the Smart Level throughout the entire project and
would not even consider building an RV without it. It is accurate to
0.1 deg. as advertised. I think it cost about $130 with the module,
a 2 ft and 4ft rail. It did fail after 2 years of use. Even though
the warranty had expired, they replaced it free of charge. It broke
at the worst possible time in the project. I was 2 weeks away from
drilling the rear spar of the wings (incidence angle) and horiz. stab.
Smart Level had a six week lead time on repairs and replacement. I
told the customer service rep my problem and received a replacement
within ten days. All in all, I would highly recommend this product.
Not only is it a great tool, but the company really stands behind it.
-Scott (N506RV- Reserved)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | HMJW50A(at)prodigy.com (MR TIM A HATFIELD) |
| Subject: | Location of electrical componen |
I am beginning the wiring phase of my RV-6 project, and would
appreciate any
information and advice as to the location of the major components.
Best advise I could give you would be to suscribe to Bob Nuckols
'AeroConnection' book for $42 plus about $16 per year. This guy is a
n expert on this sort of thing. He designed some of the lectroics on
the 'Voyager" and has decades of experience. Puts on seminars at
Oshkosh etc. Book is cramed full of great info and he invites you to
call any time with any problems or advise. The best $500 worth of
advice for just $42 that you will find.
No . . . I'm not related to him, just impressed.
Cecil Hatfield in Ca.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dougweil(at)mail.pressenter.com (Doug Weiler) |
| Subject: | East Coast Forum |
Fellow RV-Listers and especially Geo and Becky Orndorff:
Do you happen to know if another East Coast RV forun is planned for 1996 in
Frederick, MD. I know last year's event was cancelled and wondered if it
may be resurrected for next year.
The MN Wing is in the tentative stages of planning the 2nd Annual Twin
Cities RV Forum. Date planned is April 27. Last's year's Forum was a great
success and we hope to repeat this in 1996. Details will be forthcoming,
but if anyone is interested in attending as a guest speaker or vendor, let
me know. I'm open to any and all suggestions.
Doug
****************************************************************************
* Doug Weiler, pres. MN Wing Van's AirForce, RV-4 wings in progress
* 347 Krattley Lane
* Hudson, WI 54016
* 715-386-1239
* email: dougweil(at)mail.pressenter.com
****************************************************************************
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JamesCone(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: IFR (Instrument Flight & Research) Gyros |
I had IFR gyros in my first plane and they worked great.
Jim Cone
jamescone(at)aol.com
working on finishing kit for RV-6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JamesCone(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Rocky Mountain Micromonitor |
It took me 19 hours and 30 minutes. The technical support guy I talked to
sais that it would take about 20 hours. He was right on. I had never build
a computer before. It was fun and easy.
Jim Cone]
RV-6A working on finishing kit
jamescone(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | complete tool set for sale |
I was gearing up to build an RV-4, but for various reasons, am unable to do
so. I've purchased over the last few months over $3000 of tools, primarily
from Avery's. I have EVERYTHING and then some, including a pneumatic squeezer
with 4 yokes, metal stretcher/shrinker, rivet gun,pneu. nibbler, pneu. shear,
c-tool, Avery hand squeezer,pneu. pop riveter, complete rivet/dimple die
sets, angle drill and more than I could easily list. Basically everything
down to the smallest detail. I have a full listing as well as receipts. The
tools were only used to practice techniques and are brand new. I'm interested
in selling the entire package, NOT bits and pieces. This is the perfect
opportunity for someone who has nothing to get everything. I even have the
tools in a stacked craftman rolling toolbox that could possibly be part of
the deal.
Anyone who is seriously interested in the entire package, either e-mail me
directly or call.
Bryan Grossman
BRY VIDA(at)aol.com
510-494-8855
Bay Area Northern California
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rso(at)css.ncifcrf.gov (Becki Orndorff) |
| Subject: | Re: IFR (Instrument Flight & Research) Gyros |
Chris,
We too purchased a replacement Atitude gyro from IFR (through Van's) for
our first RV-6A when the original went loco. We had quite a few problems
with the replacement and had several others sent to us from IFR.
Eventually, we did get a working instrument - but it took lots of phone
calls and not stopping until they gave us satisfaction. They had a problem
with a lubricant in some of their gyros as they couldn't get what they had
been using and what they were able to get worked for a few hours and then
the instrument went crazy. Keep after them and if you can't get a
satisfactory answer, move up the management chain. They are good
instruments. Our first one went up because we flew through some really
dirty air and the filter didn't protect it. Don't fly through that stuff
coming up from the smoke stacks!
Anyway, suggest to them that your instruments may have the bad lubricant
in them and can they send you new ones. Let me know how it goes.
Becki Orndorff
>I purchased 2 gyros-a DG and Atitude gyro from Van's Aircraft-both built by a
>company in Kansas called Istrument Flight and Research(hence the IFR!)
>--first mistake was buying them too early-they sat around until I finished my
>RV-6. Both never worked from the start. My entire vacuum system is brand
>new--Vacuum guage shows 5 " of suction. Finally sent them back to the factory
>in June--both were rebuilt and reTSO'd. The Atitude gyro worked for 1-2
>months--the DG tracks for 1-2 minutes and just starts spinning! The factory
>guru assures me that the instruments are not at fault!(where have I heard
>that before!)--there is something wrong with my system. Have gone over it
>completely with no help---finally have turned up the regulator to show 5.5"
>suction--things are better but not reliable. I am finding out from various
>insturment companies that IFR equipment "stinks".(Always nice to find out now
>after spending the bucks for same!) Anyone flying IFR gyros? Anyone with
>similar experience? Any other suggestions?(besides biting the bullet and
>buying new gyros?) Thanks for any info!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ChrisL3064(at)aol.com
>
>
Becki Orndorff
NCI-FCRDC, Computer & Statistical Services
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rso(at)css.ncifcrf.gov (Becki Orndorff) |
| Subject: | Re: East Coast Forum |
Y'all,
Yes! Chapter 524 will once again have the RV Forum. I'm not sure of
the dates, but it will be just before Sun 'N Fun as if has been in the past.
As soon as I get the dates, I will let y'all know. We will start planning
just after Christmas, so more information will be posted as it is firmed up.
Becki Orndorff
>Fellow RV-Listers and especially Geo and Becky Orndorff:
>
>
>Do you happen to know if another East Coast RV forun is planned for 1996 in
>Frederick, MD. I know last year's event was cancelled and wondered if it
>may be resurrected for next year.
>
>The MN Wing is in the tentative stages of planning the 2nd Annual Twin
>Cities RV Forum. Date planned is April 27. Last's year's Forum was a great
>success and we hope to repeat this in 1996. Details will be forthcoming,
>but if anyone is interested in attending as a guest speaker or vendor, let
>me know. I'm open to any and all suggestions.
>
>Doug
>
>****************************************************************************
>* Doug Weiler, pres. MN Wing Van's AirForce, RV-4 wings in progress
>* 347 Krattley Lane
>* Hudson, WI 54016
>* 715-386-1239
>* email: dougweil(at)mail.pressenter.com
>****************************************************************************
>
>
Becki Orndorff
NCI-FCRDC, Computer & Statistical Services
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Ruble <cruble(at)cisco.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Aircraft dismantler? |
> > Does anynody have the phone number of a good dismantler that they could
> >send my way? The northern California area would be best but anything will
> >do.
> >
> > Thanks --Chris
> >
> What are you dismantling? And why do you want to dismantle it? Just curious!!
>
> John Ammeter
I'm dismantling my wallet, just like the rest of us "airplane nuts" ;-)
No, seriously, I'm looking for a 149 tooth starter ring gear for a Lyc. O-320.
Chris
cruble(at)cisco.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WStucklen(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: East Coast Forum |
>Do you happen to know if another East Coast RV forun is planned for 1996 in
>Frederick, MD. I know last year's event was cancelled and wondered if it
>may be resurrected for next year.
>
>
Last years East Coast ofrum was held at EAA Chapter 486 Headquarters, Oswego
Airport, N.Y.. You might want to contact last years chairperson at:
East Coast RV Forum
EAA Chapter 486
Judd Stiglitch
3724 Eager Road
Jamesville, N.Y. 13078-9779
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WStucklen(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: IFR (Instrument Flight & Research) Gyros |
>I purchased 2 gyros-a DG and Atitude gyro from Van's Aircraft-both built by
a
>company in Kansas called Istrument Flight and Research(hence the IFR!)
>--first mistake was buying them too early-they sat around until I finished
my
>RV-6. Both never worked from the start. My entire vacuum system is brand
>new--Vacuum guage shows 5 " of suction. Finally sent them back to the
factory
>in June--both were rebuilt and reTSO'd. The Atitude gyro worked for 1-2
>months--the DG tracks for 1-2 minutes and just starts spinning! The factory
>guru assures me that the instruments are not at fault!(where have I heard
>that before!)--there is something wrong with my system. Have gone over it
>completely with no help---finally have turned up the regulator to show 5.5"
>suction--things are better but not reliable. I am finding out from various
>insturment companies that IFR equipment "stinks".(Always nice to find out
now
>after spending the bucks for same!) Anyone flying IFR gyros? Anyone with
>similar experience? Any other suggestions?(besides biting the bullet and
>buying new gyros?) Thanks for any info!
I agree with your assesment!. I also purchased the IFR attitude indicator and
had the same problems. After the third rebuild, the company finally admitted
that the RV-6 panel needed a 10 degree tilt unit. That new part has worked
for about a year, and is already showing signs of deterioation. (Slow spinup
etc)
You might want to talk to Van's and advise him of your problems.
My problem now will be a replacement unit. I need the short case (6-8")
as i have it too close to the left canopy hinge point (tilt up canopy). Any
suggestions from anybody else?
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV E. Windsor, Ct.
wstucklen(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rso(at)css.ncifcrf.gov (Becki Orndorff) |
| Subject: | Re: IFR (Instrument Flight & Research) Gyros |
Fred and all,
We were also advised that we needed the 10 degree tilt unit and sent
both our artificial horizens back for the mod. When they were returned, we
could never get the little airplane anywhere near where it should be, so
returned both horizens yet again and had the 10 degree tilt taken out. We
measured our instrument panel and it is no where near 10 degrees tilted. I
would caution others to measure your panel before being suckered into this
as a fix.
Becki Orndorff
>After the third rebuild, the company finally admitted
>that the RV-6 panel needed a 10 degree tilt unit. That new part has worked
>for about a year, and is already showing signs of deterioation. (Slow spinup
>etc)
>
>
>Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV E. Windsor, Ct.
>wstucklen(at)aol.com
>
>
Becki Orndorff
NCI-FCRDC, Computer & Statistical Services
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ecole(at)ix.netcom.com (EDWARD COLE ) |
You wrote:
>
>Hey Ed, here's an idea if you are hesitant about marking the skins.
First,
>predrill the skeleton with a No. 41 bit. Then clamp the skin. Then
lift
>one side as if you were going to mark the outline of the skeleton on
the
>inside of the skin like Orndorff does in his video. Instead of
marking,
>back drill the skeleton and skin with a 12" No. 40 bit. Using this
method
>absolutely insures no misdrilled holes.
>
>Chet Razer
>crazer(at)midwest.net
>Thanks Chet,
That was my first thought, only I was thinking of an angle drill
attachment. This sounds the most fool proof.
How are those wings coming along??
Ed Cole 24430 Empennage
ecole(at)ix.netcom.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: Squeezer Modification |
Buy the vice-grip dimpling tool from Avery and grind that down. It's
cheap enough that you don't feel so bad about really grinding the hell
out of the tip of it, and the tip of the "yoke" doesn't get in the way
at all. This is a favorite trick for many a builder around here, and
also on the list from what I've read. It doesn't make as good a dimple,
but it's really handy for those tight places.
Randall Henderson
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gil(at)rassp.hac.com (Gil Alexander) |
>Hey Ed, here's an idea if you are hesitant about marking the skins. First,
>predrill the skeleton with a No. 41 bit. Then clamp the skin. Then lift
>one side as if you were going to mark the outline of the skeleton on the
>inside of the skin like Orndorff does in his video. Instead of marking,
>back drill the skeleton and skin with a 12" No. 40 bit. Using this method
>absolutely insures no misdrilled holes.
>
>Chet Razer
>crazer(at)midwest.net
Chet, Jack and other RV-listers,
I have also found the above technique to be the best for getting
those pesky rivets in the middle of the flanges!
However, during fuselage construction I modified the above
somewhat, on the advice of Chris Moody - of the RV-list, and got what I
believe are slightly better results.
1. Pre-drill the skeleton with #50 pilot holes.
2. Clamp the skin.
3. Back drill #50 (about 1/16 inch).
This is the improvement - you can now use a _very_ flexible 6 inch
or 12 inch long #50 drill and work around any obstructions, opposite side
flanges, etc. The #50 drill also seems to get less chips between the rib
and the skin diuring back drilling.
4. Now drill #41 from the outside surface and cleco.
This technique assures holes that are 'square' to the surface for
better rivet fit, and I personally prefer a final #41 size (instead of #40)
for all holes that will be dimpled. The tradeoff is slightly more work,
and an assistant is needed. The flexibilty of a #50 drill bit is quite
amazing, and I much prefer this over using my right-angle drill attachment
for getting into tight areas, but a pilot hole is needed in the flange.
The above technique can be speeded up somewhat by only pre-drilling
the end and a single center hole location in long staight sections such as
the HS spar between ribs. Now, when these holes are back drilled #50, you
can draw a straight line on the outside of the skin, use your fan spacing
tool (or a ruler) to lay out the rivet locations, and drill all of the
intermediate spar rivets #41 from the outside surface. This works well on
stiff items such as spars, but pre-drilling all of the rivet locations is
better on such 'floppy' things as ribs and fuselage bulkheads.
.. hope this helps .... Gil Alexander
gil(at)rassp.hac.com
RV6A, #20701 ..... tweaking aluminum pieces into shape on the canopy frame
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dierks(at)austin.ibm.com |
| Subject: | comment on locating electrical relays |
Regarding the location of electrical components,
there was a note in the RVator in the last year or so that talked
about one RV that was doing some aerobatics and the G load
energized the starter relay and it burned out his starter.
If you mount the relay so the plunger inside the unit is vertical,
then a high load may overcome the spring pressure and turn on the
starter relay. The other option is to mount the starter relay
so that any high positive G load would force the relay into a
'open' state. Most RV's don't do much negative G load aerobatics
so this should work OK also.
I mounted both of my relays vertical (mount holes horizontal) on the
firewall before I found out about this possible problem.
I think you should mount all the relays 'horizontal' if possible.
If you mount on the firewall, this would put the mount bolt holes
on a vertical line (so the internal plunger is horizontal).
I notice on my Pitts the starter relay is mounted next to the battery
behind the seat and it is mounted on a flat surface (not vertical like
a firewall). Therefore, it is not subject to the typical +/- G's
during pull and push manuvers.
--
--------------------------------------------------------
*NOTICE for internet mail*: Any ideas or thoughts expressed here are my
own and are independent of my employer.
Herman Dierks, Dept. E54S, AWSD Austin, Texas
mail: dierks(at)austin.ibm.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: RV-4/6 Tip Tanks |
> From: aol.com!WStucklen(at)matronics.com
> Date: Tue, 28 Nov 1995 11:06:26 -0500
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Someone asked about tip tanks. I finally dug up the literature on the
"Bladder Buster" tanks I saw at Van's Homecoming. They consist of two
tanks 8" wide, which add 16" to wing span. They hold 8.5 gal each, and
weigh 10.5 lbs empty. They are made by:
Bladder Buster Tanks
Designed and Mfg. by RH & Co.
(503) 471-6289 Grants Pass, OR
(209) 533-9293 Sonora, CA
Randall Henderson
RV-6
PS. Personally, I'm sticking with the standard set-up. I have a good bladder
but I don't mind making a fuel stop every now and then... :-)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Day" <sday(at)pharmcomp.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-4/6 Tip Tanks |
>Someone asked about tip tanks. I finally dug up the literature on the
>"Bladder Buster" tanks I saw at Van's Homecoming. They consist of two
>tanks 8" wide, which add 16" to wing span. They hold 8.5 gal each, and
>weigh 10.5 lbs empty. They are made by:
>
>Bladder Buster Tanks
>Designed and Mfg. by RH & Co.
>(503) 471-6289 Grants Pass, OR
>(209) 533-9293 Sonora, CA
I'm building my 6 next-door to the guy here in Grants Pass who made the tip
tanks. (if this is the same guy) I suggest checking out the tanks on the
prototype before buying.
>PS. Personally, I'm sticking with the standard set-up. I have a good bladder
> but I don't mind making a fuel stop every now and then... :-)
hehe, I agree
-Steve Day
sday(at)pharmcomp.com
(CK ID - RV6a RV for short)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | James Kelley <James.Kelley.0186110(at)nt.com> |
| Subject: | Die Grinder and cutting dis |
Subject: Time:9:11 =
AM
OFFICE MEMO Die Grinder and cutting disk ? =
Date:12/4/95
Hey gang,
More die grinder questions. What are you using to attach the cutting disk =
to the die grinder and where did you find it? Are you using some type of =
shield like a cut-off tool has or just goggles, or both?
Thank you.
James Kelley
Still Waiting on Wings & cleaning garage.
72466.1355(at)compuserve.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KDMA92A(at)prodigy.com (MR JOHN G LILE) |
| Subject: | Re: Shopping for Electronic Lev |
Bill, I bought a "Smart Level" from "LOWE'S," and am quite pleased with
it. I got both the module and a 24 inch rail for only $79.00 in Wichita
Falls, TX. Wouldn't think about building a plane without it.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Threeway fuel valve |
After having two (2) of Van's fuel switches bind up, and a third one ready to
install,
and it was kinda "hard to turn"....................bit the bullet and ordered
the $122.00
four way fuel switch from WICKS AIRCRAFT.
Have about 200 hours on it and it is still, "best thing going since sliced
bread"!!!!
I understand the fuel tank switches from VAN's are designed for the tractors
used
in midwest for single gang plowing. They seem to work real good there.
The $125.00 unit has four outlets. Used caps to shut off two of them, and it
is very,
very easy to turn.
One thing this old guy doesn't need is fuel in a tank I can't get to. Or,
having it hang
up while switching tanks.
I sent the third one back to VAN so they would know it is a problem. Tole
them a refund would be nice but didn't expect one. (And, didn't get one
either).
One of the very fine employees of VAN's told me this particular item is kinda
a sore
point with management. I solved my problem, hope they can solve theirs.
Marvin N63TX(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert Busick <rbusick(at)nmsu.edu> |
Gil
Read your note on drilling the skins with a #50 drill bit. Where
can you get a 12" #50 drill bit?
Bob Busick
RV-6
rbusick(at)nmsu.edu
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Die Grinder and cutting dis |
> Subject: Time:9:11 AM
> OFFICE MEMO Die Grinder and cutting disk ? Date:12/4/95
>
>Hey gang,
>More die grinder questions. What are you using to attach the cutting disk
to the die grinder and where did you find it? Are you using some type of
shield like a cut-off tool has or just goggles, or both?
>
>Thank you.
>James Kelley
>Still Waiting on Wings & cleaning garage.
>72466.1355(at)compuserve.com
>
> I believe that Avery has the mandrel that you need for using the 3"
cut-off wheel with a die grinder. If you have a Dremel tool, you might
consider using the little cut-off wheel made for use with the Dremel. It
looks like the same material. I found the Dremel to be easier to handle
compared to the 3" wheel on a die grinder. The Dremel also comes in handy
for other things on your airplane (or around the house).
The Dremel makes a finer cut and is easier to control. Be sure to
practice on scrap. I'd sure wear eye protection. The shield on the die
grinder kind of gets in the way. I wear goggles over glasses.
Good Luck
Bob Skinner
Flying RV-6, working on 6-A>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Terence Gannon" <Terence_Gannon(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Die Grinder and cutting dis |
James -- I went down to our local "House of Tools" and they were able to sell
me both the cutoff wheels, as well as a 3/8" mandel (adapter) that attaches
the disk to the die grinder. A couple of things to keep in mind...check that
the hole in the disk and the mandel are the same size (I think they come in
3/8" and 1/2" versions), and secondly, make sure that the disk and the die
grinder are compatible. I have an Ingersoll-Rand unit that turns up at
25,000, and it's possible to buy a disk that's rated to only 20,000. I don't
have a shield on the die grinder, but I wear the full complement of
protection, including heavy leather gloves. I have used the unit to cut
angle iron and it's a blast (that's good)...hope this helps...
Terry in Calgary
S/N 24414
"Cutting Angle Iron With A Die Grinder"
----------
From: owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com on behalf of James Kelley
Sent: December 4, 1995 7:45 AM
Subject: RV-List: Die Grinder and cutting dis
Subject: Time:9:11 =
AM
OFFICE MEMO Die Grinder and cutting disk ? =
Date:12/4/95
Hey gang,
More die grinder questions. What are you using to attach the cutting disk =
to the die grinder and where did you find it? Are you using some type of =
shield like a cut-off tool has or just goggles, or both?
Thank you.
James Kelley
Still Waiting on Wings & cleaning garage.
72466.1355(at)compuserve.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Terence Gannon" <Terence_Gannon(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Die Grinder and cutting dis |
Lest anybody think I'm TOTALLY illiterate, that's MANDREL, not MANDEL!! :-)
Think country and western, not standup...sorry 'bout that folks!
Terry in Calgary
S/N 24414
"Going Back To School"
----------
From: owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com on behalf of Terence Gannon
Sent: December 4, 1995 18:02 PM
Subject: FW: RV-List: Die Grinder and cutting dis
James -- I went down to our local "House of Tools" and they were able to sell
me both the cutoff wheels, as well as a 3/8" mandel (adapter) that attaches
the disk to the die grinder. A couple of things to keep in mind...check that
the hole in the disk and the mandel are the same size (I think they come in
3/8" and 1/2" versions), and secondly, make sure that the disk and the die
grinder are compatible. I have an Ingersoll-Rand unit that turns up at
25,000, and it's possible to buy a disk that's rated to only 20,000. I don't
have a shield on the die grinder, but I wear the full complement of
protection, including heavy leather gloves. I have used the unit to cut
angle iron and it's a blast (that's good)...hope this helps...
Terry in Calgary
S/N 24414
"Cutting Angle Iron With A Die Grinder"
----------
From: owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com on behalf of James Kelley
Sent: December 4, 1995 7:45 AM
Subject: RV-List: Die Grinder and cutting dis
Subject: Time:9:11 =
AM
OFFICE MEMO Die Grinder and cutting disk ? =
Date:12/4/95
Hey gang,
More die grinder questions. What are you using to attach the cutting disk =
to the die grinder and where did you find it? Are you using some type of =
shield like a cut-off tool has or just goggles, or both?
Thank you.
James Kelley
Still Waiting on Wings & cleaning garage.
72466.1355(at)compuserve.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JamesCone(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | St. Louis Builders Conference |
EAA Chapter 32 and Wicks Aircraft are sponsoring a builders conference at
Spirit of St. Louis Airport (SUS) on Saturday, May 4, 1996. Everyone is
welcome. The preliminary plan is to run the event like the conferences
sponsored by Aircraft Spruce. They sponsored the conference last year and
Wicks asked for the chance to put one on rather than have Aircraft Spruce in
their back yard again in 1996, (Highland Illinois is just across the
Mississippi River from St. Louis). This is your chance to try your hand at
welding, sheet metal, composites, tube and rag and other building skills. I
will be in charge of the event and the moderator for the question and answer
sessions. For more information you can contact me by E-mail,
jamescone(at)aol.com or 422 Savannah Ridge Drive, St. Charles, MO 63303-2921,
phone (314) 928-8703, FAX (314) 447-8803.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JerryFlyRV(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Digital Instruments |
****STUFF DELETED******
> It might be an attractive alternative to the
>Rocky Mountain installation. I haven't heard any pilot reports on it
>though, and I think the Rocky Mountain system is well regarded.
>
>Just my thoughts on the subject, for what they're worth. I've learned one
>thing from screwing around with my panel design: It's difficult to get all
>I want in the space of an RV panel. Any one of these systems helps save
>space in contrast to individual instruments for every function.
I have to put in my two cents worth on the Rocky Mtn. Encoder, It is one of
the best designed, easiest to operate and it has the best instruction manual
that I have ever used for assembly. I have been flying mine in my RV-6 for
over 5 years and have not had any trouble with it. I would recommend it to
anyone.
I cannot speak for the other systems having not used them, I am sure they are
good, but I really like my RMI Encoder.
Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | csanchez(at)BayNetworks.com (Cheryl Sanchez) |
| Subject: | Engine/prop queston |
Can a constant-speed prop be used on an O-320-E2A?
Hopefully one of you engine experts will know all about this.
Thanks.
Cheryl Sanchez
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank K Justice <Frank_K_Justice(at)ccm.ssd.intel.com> |
Text item:
> Read your note on drilling the skins with a #50 drill bit. Where
>can you get a 12" #50 drill bit?
You can usually find a 12" long 1/16" drill at better hardware stores. It
doesn't have to be #50. That just happens to be the size that somebody first
talked about on the net a while back.
FKJ
Text item: External Message Header
The following mail header is for administrative use
and may be ignored unless there are problems.
***IF THERE ARE PROBLEMS SAVE THESE HEADERS***.
Subject: Re: Re[2]: RV-List: Skins
From: Robert Busick <nmsu.edu!rbusick(at)matronics.com>
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 18:44:42 -0700 (MST)
4.1)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | AB320FLYER(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Die Grinder and cutting dis |
I have a question I would like to thow into this discussion. I have a Sears
chain saw sharpener (it's like a large Dremel) rated at 24,000 RPM with a 1/8
in collet. It is single speed and so far all the rotary tool accessories
I've found are rated at 15 to 20 K RPM's. Does anyone know of a source for
higher speed accessories or a way to slow this beast down?
Joel Harding
AB320FLYER(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ward9(at)llnl.gov (Rich Ward) |
| Subject: | Re: Engine/prop queston |
> Can a constant-speed prop be used on an O-320-E2A?
>Hopefully one of you engine experts will know all about this.
>
> Thanks.
>
>Cheryl Sanchez
No, the 2 in the E2A indicates a fixed pitch propeller
-- RIch, RV4
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Engine/prop queston |
Try Ed Couden @ Lycoming 717-327-7043. He should be able to steer you in the
right direction.
Wrgway
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Day" <sday(at)pharmcomp.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine/prop queston |
>> Can a constant-speed prop be used on an O-320-E2A?
>>Hopefully one of you engine experts will know all about this.
>
>No, the 2 in the E2A indicates a fixed pitch propeller
What makes the engine not allow a constant-speed prop? Is it the shaft
length or something?
-Thanks
-Steve Day
sday(at)pharmcomp.com
(CK ID - RV6a RV for short)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Die Grinder and cutting dis |
I have been using my Sears chain saw sharpener recently to grind/sand
fiberglass using Dremel bits and it has worked just fine. I think the
speed rating of these bits is something similar to that of the sharpener.
Carl Weston
RV-6 23876 doing elevator counterweights
> I have a question I would like to thow into this discussion. I have a Sears
> chain saw sharpener (it's like a large Dremel) rated at 24,000 RPM with a 1/8
> in collet. It is single speed and so far all the rotary tool accessories
> I've found are rated at 15 to 20 K RPM's. Does anyone know of a source for
> higher speed accessories or a way to slow this beast down?
>
>
> Joel Harding
> AB320FLYER(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MMac1100(at)aol.com |
Hello,my name is mike MacGregor.I am a aircraft mechanic with american
airlines.I am not yet building a airplane.But plan to start a rv-6 in about 2
years when i get other projects wraped up.So at this point i am just
collecting info about the rv.Have admired that airplane since my college days
long ago.Thanks for letting me in on the fun.
mike macGregor
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ecole(at)ix.netcom.com (EDWARD COLE ) |
You wrote:
>
>
>Text item:
>
>> Read your note on drilling the skins with a #50 drill bit.
Where
>>can you get a 12" #50 drill bit?
>
>You can usually find a 12" long 1/16" drill at better hardware stores.
It
>doesn't have to be #50. That just happens to be the size that somebody
first
>talked about on the net a while back.
>
>FKJ
>
>
Frank and all,
ATS has 12" #50 drills along with all other wire sizes in 6", 12"
and jobber lenghts. I just ordered them today. 1-800-248-0638
Ed Cole RV6A 24430 Empennage
ecole(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gil(at)rassp.hac.com (Gil Alexander) |
| Subject: | Gyro Questions (was IFR Gyros) |
>
>>I purchased 2 gyros-a DG and Atitude gyro from Van's Aircraft-both built by
***** IFR company story deleted *****
>>after spending the bucks for same!) Anyone flying IFR gyros? Anyone with
>>similar experience? Any other suggestions?(besides biting the bullet and
>>buying new gyros?) Thanks for any info!
>
>I agree with your assesment!. I also purchased the IFR attitude indicator and
>had the same problems. After the third rebuild, the company finally admitted
>that the RV-6 panel needed a 10 degree tilt unit. That new part has worked
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>for about a year, and is already showing signs of deterioation. (Slow spinup
>etc)
> You might want to talk to Van's and advise him of your problems.
> My problem now will be a replacement unit. I need the short case (6-8")
>as i have it too close to the left canopy hinge point (tilt up canopy). Any
>suggestions from anybody else?
>
>Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV E. Windsor, Ct.
>wstucklen(at)aol.com
Guys,
My measurements last night show about a 11 degree forward tilt of
the panel with reference to the cockpit rail/longeron plans reference line.
This is with a tilt-up canopy, but I think that the slider has the same
panel angle.
I would guess that the RV6 actualy flies slightly nose down - with
reference to the longeron line - in cruise (any of the aerodynamacists out
there confirm this?), which would actually increase this 11 degree angle.
So my questions are .....
Does this tilt angle affect all makes of gyros?
Is there a tolerance on the 10 degree figure?
Is it something to specifically ask for when you buy gyros?
Can an existing gyro be modified for this tilt?
.... any answers or comments out there??
... Gil Alexander
gil(at)rassp.hac.com
RV6A, #20701 .... still tweaking the canopy frame into shape ....
... VFR only with no vacuum system is beginning to look more attractive, as
well as saving $$$ ... :^)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ecole(at)ix.netcom.com (EDWARD COLE ) |
You wrote:
>
>Gil
> Read your note on drilling the skins with a #50 drill bit. Where
>can you get a 12" #50 drill bit?
>
>Bob Busick
>RV-6
>rbusick(at)nmsu.edu
>
Bob,
ATS (Aircraft Tool Supply) has 6" and 12" wire size drills. I just
ordered some today. 1-800-248-0638
rv6A 24430 Empennage
ecole(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Brown <jmbrown(at)aimnet.com> |
I just started bucking my hs-603 and hs-403 together. I have a couple (5) smilies
from where the rivet set was not held correctly. THe divets are quite small
and
don't seem to be that deep. Will this cause and structural problem?? Do
I need to drill the rivet out and polish the area??
Thanks in advance.
-------sig cut here-------
jmbrown(at)aimnet.com PP-ASEL
jmbrown(at)BayNetworks.com
Building an RV-6 #23568 N610JB "The Golden BeeBee"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JDelveau(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Trim Servo Question |
What is the difference between the 8A and the 6A MAC servos? would it make
any difference which servo was used in the elevator trim? (A buddy of mine
bought the servo after market at OSH this year and it was not the same one I
got when I ordered it with the tail kit.)
Thanks
Jim Delveau
6A - welding the fiberglass tips to the empanage parts.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine/prop queston |
>
> Can a constant-speed prop be used on an O-320-E2A?
>Hopefully one of you engine experts will know all about this.
>
> Thanks.
>
>Cheryl Sanchez
>
Cheryl, Rich is right, that is what the E2A designates. However, I
have this engine in my RV-6 and had the same question. The Lycoming
representative that I visited with a Oshkosh said that a CS could be used
with theis engine. I called Lycoming and a couple of mechanics and they
also indicated that this engine could be used with a CS. It must have a
hollow crank, a tapped fitting for a oil line on the forward right front of
the crankcase and an accessory mounting pad. Hopefully, there is someone
out ther more qualified than I that can back-up or refute this statement. A
call to Lycoming might be worthwhile. I have two numbers you might try.
717-323-6181 or 717-327-7322. It wouldn't hurt to double and triple check
as this is a major investment. Which RV do you have? I built an inset into
my firewall for oil filter clearance and made it as deep as I felt I could
but don't know if the governor will fit. I have just about decided to leave
the RV-6 as it is and put a CS on the 180 hp RV-6A that I'm building now.
Bob Skinner
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Spruell, Steven E." <sspruell(at)ssf8.jsc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Die Grinder and cutting dis |
There is an inline, plug-in variable speed control available for routers,
I assume it would work for your tool. I don't know if Sears carries it,
but I have seen it available in the Trendlines, Harbor Freight, etc.,
catalogs. I think I have seen them at places like Home Depot, also. You
plug your tool into it, and it into the wall. You can clip it to your
belt for convenience. I don't know an exact price, but I think it's
under $30.
Steven Spruell
----------
From: owner-rv-list[SMTP:owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com]
Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 1995 10:40 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Die Grinder and cutting dis
I have a question I would like to thow into this discussion. I have a
Sears
chain saw sharpener (it's like a large Dremel) rated at 24,000 RPM with a
1/8
in collet. It is single speed and so far all the rotary tool accessories
I've found are rated at 15 to 20 K RPM's. Does anyone know of a source
for
higher speed accessories or a way to slow this beast down?
Joel Harding
AB320FLYER(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Spruell, Steven E." <sspruell(at)ssf8.jsc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Engine/prop queston |
I'm not an engine expert, but I do know that the "2" in E2A means it's a
fixed pitch prop engine (no hollow crankshaft). You need to look for a
model with "1" as the second digit, as in O-360-A1D, as the "1" indicates
the hollow crankshaft (and governor) required for a C/S prop.
Steven Spruell
----------
From: owner-rv-list[SMTP:owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com]
Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 1995 10:27 AM
Subject: RV-List: Engine/prop queston
Can a constant-speed prop be used on an O-320-E2A?
Hopefully one of you engine experts will know all about this.
Thanks.
Cheryl Sanchez
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MGGX07C(at)prodigy.com ( SCOTT GESELE) |
| Subject: | Re: IFR (Instrument Flight & Re |
With all this bad talk about the IFR gyros, can anyone recommend a
brand that works just fine in an RV. Would a bypass valve between
the gyros and vacuum regulator solve the problem of destroying the
gyros while doing aerobatics?
-Scott
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ammeterj(at)ammeterj.seanet.com (John Ammeter) |
| Subject: | Re: Engine/prop queston |
>> Can a constant-speed prop be used on an O-320-E2A?
>>Hopefully one of you engine experts will know all about this.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>>Cheryl Sanchez
>
>No, the 2 in the E2A indicates a fixed pitch propeller
>
>-- RIch, RV4
>
>
Yes it can, just convert remove the plug from the front of the crankshaft,
insert the small plug in back of the oil cross-over tube, buy lots of
expensive parts and have fun.
John Ammeter
ammeterj(at)ammeterj.seanet.com
Seattle WA, USA
RV-6 N16JA
Flying 5 years
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ammeterj(at)ammeterj.seanet.com (John Ammeter) |
| Subject: | Re: Engine/prop queston |
>
> Can a constant-speed prop be used on an O-320-E2A?
>Hopefully one of you engine experts will know all about this.
>
> Thanks.
>
>Cheryl Sanchez
>
Yes, if you have the original crankshaft. I have an E2A in my bird and was
planning on changing to a CS prop and, after buying prop, spinner, governor,
adapter, etc. found one of the previous owners had put the wrong crankshaft
in the when overhauling it. Good luck with your conversion.
John Ammeter
ammeterj(at)ammeterj.seanet.com
Seattle WA, USA
RV-6 N16JA
Flying 5 years
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | csanchez(at)BayNetworks.com (Cheryl Sanchez) |
| Subject: | Re: Engine/prop queston |
>
>>
>> Can a constant-speed prop be used on an O-320-E2A?
>>Hopefully one of you engine experts will know all about this.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>>Cheryl Sanchez
>>
>
> Cheryl, Rich is right, that is what the E2A designates. However, I
>have this engine in my RV-6 and had the same question. The Lycoming
>representative that I visited with a Oshkosh said that a CS could be used
>with theis engine. I called Lycoming and a couple of mechanics and they
>also indicated that this engine could be used with a CS. It must have a
>hollow crank, a tapped fitting for a oil line on the forward right front of
>the crankcase and an accessory mounting pad. Hopefully, there is someone
>out ther more qualified than I that can back-up or refute this statement. A
>call to Lycoming might be worthwhile. I have two numbers you might try.
>717-323-6181 or 717-327-7322. It wouldn't hurt to double and triple check
>as this is a major investment. Which RV do you have? I built an inset into
>my firewall for oil filter clearance and made it as deep as I felt I could
>but don't know if the governor will fit. I have just about decided to leave
>the RV-6 as it is and put a CS on the 180 hp RV-6A that I'm building now.
>Bob Skinner
>
Bob,
Thanks for the input. I will call Lycoming and see if I can
get the straight answer. I don't know if the crank is hollow or not
and I don't know whether or not there is an oil fitting at the front.
There does, however, appear to be a pad for the governor on the back
next to the fuel pump.
I am actuall building two RV's. I started on a -3 several
years ago and have been slowly working on it. Currently the spars
are done, the wing ribs are prepared and I am ready to assemble the
wings. But I just bought a 6A that came with the -E2A and a wooden
prop. I am simply not crazy about the wooden prop. In New England
the weather is always changing. Also, I will eventualy want to fly
IFR and my experience is that IFR usually means rain.
Cheryl
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David A. Barnhart" <barnhart(at)crl.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine/prop queston |
On Tue, 5 Dec 1995, Steve Day wrote:
> What makes the engine not allow a constant-speed prop? Is it the shaft
> length or something?
The engine's crankshaft must be hollow in order for the engine to accept
a constant-speed prop. Pitch changes in the blased are driven from oil
pressure, and the way the oil is delivered to the prop hub is through the
center of the crankshaft. If the crankshaft is solid, there is no way to
get oil to the prop.
BEst Regards,
Dave Barnhart
rv-6 sn 23744
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tedd McHenry <tedd(at)idacom.hp.com> |
| Subject: | A Strategy Question |
Let me jump right in with the question: Should I consider building
something less ambitious than an RV before I build an RV (perhaps a
Zenair)?
Why I'm Considering This
------------------------
I haven't flown since leaving the air force a year ago, and frankly I
don't want to wait five or more years before I fly again. I think I can
have a Zenair in the air within a couple of years (including getting the
money together, perhaps borrowing some). I know an RV will take me much
longer--not just building but also getting the money for a decent engine,
prop, and instruments.
How I See it Working
--------------------
What I picture is using the Zenair project to develop my building skills
and get my shop sorted out a bit, then starting on the RV project, sub-kit
by sub-kit, while having the Zenair to fly. When I need money for the big
ticket items on the RV (engine, prop, and instruments) I'll sell the
Zenair.
My Concerns About this Approach
-------------------------------
I guess the biggest drawback I can see is the temptation to settle for the
Zenair, and never get around to building the RV. Has anyone gone this
route before? Will owning the Zenair likely make it impossible for me to
ever get the money together for the RV? In other words, will I find myself
five years down the road with no RV and in no better shape to get one than
if I'd done nothing?
As a point of reference, I have never built an airplane before, but I
do have several years of experience assembling formula race cars,
including some fabrication (welding, machining, and fiberglass; very
little sheet metal work). I can read plans, though I haven't in a few
years.
Tedd McHenry
Still dreaming and scheming in Edmonton.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JerryFlyRV(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: IFR (Instrument Flight & Re |
>With all this bad talk about the IFR gyros, can anyone recommend a
>brand that works just fine in an RV. Would a bypass valve between
>the gyros and vacuum regulator solve the problem of destroying the
>gyros while doing aerobatics?
>
>-Scott
Scott
I am using RC Allen gyros in my RV and have had no problems even doing acro.
I would tell everyone that they need to have the 10-15 degree panel tilt
built into their gyros, I did not and have to have the little airplane
adjustment all the way to the top in level flight to line up with the horizon
bar on the attitude indicator.
I do not think that a bypass valve is a good idea because the gyros are more
stable while running. I understand that more damage can be done while they
are ** still ** do to the fact that they flop around more .
Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14,1989
J
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DerFlieger(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Engine/prop queston) |
(Bob Skinner) writes:
>I built an inset into
>my firewall for oil filter clearance and made it as deep as I felt I could
>but don't know if the governor will fit. I have just about decided to leave
I saw a neat idea at Boone Iowa a month or so ago. RV6/ 0320/ Fixed Pitch.
Instead of building an "inset" into the firewall, the builder just cuts off
the nut on the back of the oil filter before installing it with a chain or
band type wrench! It gives just enough clearance.
Jim Stugart, Austin TX
DerFlieger(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John.Morrissey(at)its.csiro.au (John Morrissey) |
| Subject: | Re: A Strategy Question |
Hi Ted,
I would suggest that you try and pickup a reasonable second
hand aircraft to play with or join a syndicate. I presently
own a Jodel D11 homebuilt that I purchased a number of years
ago, the problem is that I enjoy building the RV so much
that I hardly have time to fly it. I now look at it as my
future engine.
As for building a Zenair, Why?? I would suggest that you
spend your time assisting someone else in building their RV,
and buy the tail kit. The nice thing about Vans is that it
is very cheap to replace stuffed components, you will learn
the vast majority of the metal working skills you need to
complete the project just in building the tail plane. This
approach has the advantage of relatively cheap investment
and you will be exposed to all the various materials used in
the Aircraft. Best investment I've seen so far is the
Orndorf's Video's, nice step by step approach with lots of
good tip's.
Hope this helps!
John Morrissey
"RV4 from down under - Australia"
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: RV-List: A Strategy Question
Date: 12/5/95 7:51 PM
Let me jump right in with the question: Should I consider building
something less ambitious than an RV before I build an RV (perhaps a
Zenair)?
Why I'm Considering This
------------------------
I haven't flown since leaving the air force a year ago, and frankly I
don't want to wait five or more years before I fly again. I think I can
have a Zenair in the air within a couple of years (including getting the
money together, perhaps borrowing some). I know an RV will take me much
longer--not just building but also getting the money for a decent engine,
prop, and instruments.
How I See it Working
--------------------
What I picture is using the Zenair project to develop my building skills
and get my shop sorted out a bit, then starting on the RV project, sub-kit
by sub-kit, while having the Zenair to fly. When I need money for the big
ticket items on the RV (engine, prop, and instruments) I'll sell the
Zenair.
My Concerns About this Approach
-------------------------------
I guess the biggest drawback I can see is the temptation to settle for the
Zenair, and never get around to building the RV. Has anyone gone this
route before? Will owning the Zenair likely make it impossible for me to
ever get the money together for the RV? In other words, will I find myself
five years down the road with no RV and in no better shape to get one than
if I'd done nothing?
As a point of reference, I have never built an airplane before, but I
do have several years of experience assembling formula race cars,
including some fabrication (welding, machining, and fiberglass; very
little sheet metal work). I can read plans, though I haven't in a few
years.
Tedd McHenry
Still dreaming and scheming in Edmonton.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
| Subject: | Re: A Strategy Question |
>Let me jump right in with the question: Should I consider building
>something less ambitious than an RV before I build an RV (perhaps a
>Zenair)?
>
>Why I'm Considering This
>------------------------
>
>I haven't flown since leaving the air force a year ago, and frankly I
>don't want to wait five or more years before I fly again. I think I can
>have a Zenair in the air within a couple of years (including getting the
>money together, perhaps borrowing some). I know an RV will take me much
>longer--not just building but also getting the money for a decent engine,
>prop, and instruments.
>
>How I See it Working
>--------------------
>
>What I picture is using the Zenair project to develop my building skills
>and get my shop sorted out a bit, then starting on the RV project, sub-kit
>by sub-kit, while having the Zenair to fly. When I need money for the big
>ticket items on the RV (engine, prop, and instruments) I'll sell the
>Zenair.
>
>My Concerns About this Approach
>-------------------------------
>
>I guess the biggest drawback I can see is the temptation to settle for the
>Zenair, and never get around to building the RV. Has anyone gone this
>route before? Will owning the Zenair likely make it impossible for me to
>ever get the money together for the RV? In other words, will I find myself
>five years down the road with no RV and in no better shape to get one than
>if I'd done nothing?
>
>As a point of reference, I have never built an airplane before, but I
>do have several years of experience assembling formula race cars,
>including some fabrication (welding, machining, and fiberglass; very
>little sheet metal work). I can read plans, though I haven't in a few
>years.
>
>Tedd McHenry
>Still dreaming and scheming in Edmonton.
>
Tedd: You must not have ever flown a RV or you wouldn't be willing
to settle for a Zenair. I'm not sure if the pop riveting skills of the
Zenair would be helpful in building a RV. If as you say you could build a
Zenair in two years, you would be half way there on a RV. Another thing to
consider is the resale value of the Zenair. Typically, the resale value of
a well build RV is pretty good. It sounds as if you are used to working
with your hands, so I don't think you would have any trouble building a RV.
(I did)
If you have money tied up in the Zenair, you may not feel that you
can afford to start a RV. Hopefully, you have local builders that will be
willing to help you get started. One thing you will find is that there is
no better, more helpful and friendly group of people than RV builders.
Of utmost importance is to have the blessings of the wife and family.
Regards,
Bob Skinner (built Glasair, RV-6 working on RV-6A)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bcos(at)ix.netcom.com (William Costello ) |
| Subject: | Re: A Strategy Question |
You wrote:
>
>Let me jump right in with the question: Should I consider building
>something less ambitious than an RV before I build an RV (perhaps a
>Zenair)?
>
<<< a bunch cut out >>>
>Tedd McHenry
>Still dreaming and scheming in Edmonton.
>
Tedd, my gut feeling is go for the RV. I strongly suspect if you can
build a Zenair in 2 years, you can build an RV in 3. Either will take
more $$$ than you are imagining now, but where there's a will there's a
way! I am scraping the money together and, when the urge to fly is
strong, I go fly a rental spam can for a while.
I seriously looked at 4 other planes before picking the RV-6. I've
spoken with hundreds of people and the vast majority say that the RV is
the best plane flying for the money.
Just my thoughts. Hope they help.
Bill Costello
RV-6 on empennage
Chicago
bcos(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WStucklen(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Gyro Questions (was IFR Gyros) |
> So my questions are .....
>
> Does this tilt angle affect all makes of gyros?
I don't know about all makes, but hte people at IFR stated that a non-tilted
gyro in a tilted panel wouldn't last long.
> Is there a tolerance on the 10 degree figure?
Only to the degree of adjustability of the luber line.....Probably should
keep it within plus or minus 2 degrees.
> Is it something to specifically ask for when you buy gyros?
YES.......
> Can an existing gyro be modified for this tilt?
Consult with the gyro manufacture...
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
wstucklen(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JDelveau(at)aol.com |
Does anybody see what I'm doing wrong in my attempt to "Get"
a file from the list? I want to download the archive file to look through
it.
Here is the retutn message from the server:
>>>> GET RV-ARCHIVE.Z.UU
**** get: invalid file 'RV-ARCHIVE.Z.UU' for list 'rv-list'.
**** Help for majordomo:
Thanks in advance, Jim D.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WStucklen(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Engine/prop queston |
> I am actuall building two RV's. I started on a -3 several
>years ago and have been slowly working on it. Currently the spars
>are done, the wing ribs are prepared and I am ready to assemble the
>wings. But I just bought a 6A that came with the -E2A and a wooden
>prop. I am simply not crazy about the wooden prop. In New England
>the weather is always changing. Also, I will eventualy want to fly
>IFR and my experience is that IFR usually means rain.
>
>Cheryl
>
>
Cheryl:
I had the same reservations with the wood prop. Put about 100 Hrs on it,
then bought the Sensenich metal prop. Picked up 10 MPH over the wood prop,
and now feel comfortable flying in the rain.
Where in New England are you? I'm based at 7B6, Warehouse Point, Ct,. If
your ever looking for a ride, or some local help, let me know.
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV 7B6
wstucklen(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Plains Electric EMS <pla_ems(at)nmia.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rivet Smiles ?? |
That's why God created bondo.
Dan Boudro
RV-4 N9167Z
On Tue, 5 Dec 1995, John Brown wrote:
> I just started bucking my hs-603 and hs-403 together. I have a couple (5) smilies
from where the rivet set was not held correctly. THe divets are quite small
and
> don't seem to be that deep. Will this cause and structural problem?? Do
> I need to drill the rivet out and polish the area??
>
> Thanks in advance.
> -------sig cut here-------
> jmbrown(at)aimnet.com PP-ASEL
> jmbrown(at)BayNetworks.com
> Building an RV-6 #23568 N610JB "The Golden BeeBee"
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DerFlieger(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Trim Servo Question |
writes:
>What is the difference between the 8A and the 6A MAC servos? would it make
>any difference which servo was used in the elevator trim? (A buddy of mine
>bought the servo after market at OSH this year and it was not the same one I
>got when I ordered it with the tail kit.)
>
>
Reading from the MAC brochure, the 8A is 16 seconds full travel 1.2 inches,
6A is 12 seconds 1.0 inches, 4A is 8 seconds .7 inches. Thrust is the same
for each.
Van supplies the 8A with the elevator trim kit. I have not tried mine yet.
You might want to check with Van about the applicability. I do not care
much for the meter type indicator (which your friend would might have to buy
separately) but it works, and I think is necessary. MAC phone #
619/598-0592.
Jim Stugart, Austin TX
DerFlieger(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Plains Electric EMS <pla_ems(at)nmia.com> |
Does anyone know where I can get those 1" round panel plugs. I want
three of them; 2 for wheel pants and one for the tail spring bolt hole
cover. I can't seem to find the #$%# things anywhere? TIA
Dan Boudro
Albuquerque
RV-4 N9167Z
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | B F Gibbons <bfgibbons(at)intellinet.com> |
------ =_NextPart_000_01BAC3B4.050D5780
Mike,
A mechanic for AA? Where are you? Tulsa?
There are three projects underway a couple of hours from Tulsa if that's where
you are.
B F Gibbons
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dierks(at)austin.ibm.com |
| Subject: | panel plugs (fwd) |
Go to your local hardware store.
I got some at 'The Hardware Store' here in Austin.
They have various sizes. I think I used 1 1/4 inch hole for the
wheel pants. They were $1.10 each so you can buy some spares if
they fall out.
Also, plumbing supply may have them.
Herman
>
> Does anyone know where I can get those 1" round panel plugs. I want
> three of them; 2 for wheel pants and one for the tail spring bolt hole
> cover. I can't seem to find the #$%# things anywhere? TIA
>
> Dan Boudro
Herman Dierks, Dept. E54S, AWSD Austin, Texas
mail: dierks(at)austin.ibm.com VM: DIERKS at AUSVM6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Curtis Smith <Curtis_Smith(at)ccm.al.intel.com> |
Text item:
I have seen hole plugs used buy electricians stocked in the electric
section of most hardware stores - that is if you want chromed metal
plugs. Any bodyshop or bodyshop supply store will have plastic (vinyl
?) plugs - they won't rust. Curtis Smith.
___________________
Does anyone know where I can get those 1" round panel plugs. I want
three of them; 2 for wheel pants and one for the tail spring bolt hole
cover. I can't seem to find the #$%# things anywhere? TIA
Dan Boudro
Albuquerque
RV-4 N9167Z
Text item: External Message Header
The following mail header is for administrative use
and may be ignored unless there are problems.
***IF THERE ARE PROBLEMS SAVE THESE HEADERS***.
Subject: RV-List: panel plugs
From: Plains Electric EMS <nmia.com!pla_ems(at)matronics.com>
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 07:37:24 -0700 (MST)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle (Matt G. Dralle 510-606-1001) |
| Subject: | Re: Get file help |
>--------------
>Does anybody see what I'm doing wrong in my attempt to "Get"
>a file from the list? I want to download the archive file to look through
>it.
>
>Here is the retutn message from the server:
>
>
>>>>> GET RV-ARCHIVE.Z.UU
>**** get: invalid file 'RV-ARCHIVE.Z.UU' for list 'rv-list'.
>**** Help for majordomo:
>
>
>Thanks in advance, Jim D.
>--------------
Try the filename "RV-Archive.Z.uu" not "RV-ARCHIVE.Z.UU". Filenames on
a UNIX system are case sensitive. I would also recommend using "get" and
not "GET" although in the case I don't think it matters.
Matt Dralle
Matronics
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Bell-crank inspection opening size |
I'm at the point where I need to fabricate the bellcrank access
on my first wing. The plans show an opening that is about
8-1/4 x 6 inches. I mocked this up on my wing and played around
reaching my arm into the wing and thinking about bucking the
rivets on the bottom skin. The result is that I would like
to make it bigger -- say 10 to 11 inches long by 6 inches
wide. Is there any reason why I shouldn't do this? I checked
and the material that comes with the kit is enough to make two
access plates this size. So unless there is some reason not to,
I plan to go ahead and make them bigger.
Doug Medema RV-6A #21140 dougm@physio-control.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gil(at)rassp.hac.com (Gil Alexander) |
>Does anyone know where I can get those 1" round panel plugs. I want
>three of them; 2 for wheel pants and one for the tail spring bolt hole
>cover. I can't seem to find the #$%# things anywhere? TIA
>
>Dan Boudro
>Albuquerque
>RV-4 N9167Z
Dan,
Our local Home Depot store has them in white nylon and in chromed
metal.
They are in the Misc. Hardware section with the Metric nuts/bolts etc.
If you are going for a basically white paint job, these could
certainly be used as is, saving some detailed painting! ... and having an
easy source of spares!
... hope this helps ... Gil Alexander
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: Bell-crank inspection opening size |
I think it's a good idea to make your wing access hole larger than is
on the plans. One reason is that it makes closing your wing a lot less
painful, since you have to spend a fair amount of time with your arm up
in there holding the bucking bar. Also I plan on putting a Navaid
Devices servo in one wing, so I'll want better access.
I'm surprised, however that you have enough material. As I remember
I didn't have enough mat'l and had to get an extra piece. Make sure
there isn't something else you're supposed to cut out of this piece.
Or maybe it was the reinforcing ring material, I don't remember too
well.
(Of course the new kits come with pre-joggled holes and don't have
a reinforcing ring, so people who have those would probably not want
to bother with cutting this out and doing it the "old way".)
Randall Henderson
RV-6
> Date: Wed, 6 Dec 95 09:17:46 PST
> From: physio-control.com!dougm(at)matronics.com (Doug Medema)
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: Bell-crank inspection opening size
> Sender: owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>
> I'm at the point where I need to fabricate the bellcrank access
> on my first wing. The plans show an opening that is about
> 8-1/4 x 6 inches. I mocked this up on my wing and played around
> reaching my arm into the wing and thinking about bucking the
> rivets on the bottom skin. The result is that I would like
> to make it bigger -- say 10 to 11 inches long by 6 inches
> wide. Is there any reason why I shouldn't do this? I checked
> and the material that comes with the kit is enough to make two
> access plates this size. So unless there is some reason not to,
> I plan to go ahead and make them bigger.
>
> Doug Medema RV-6A #21140 dougm@physio-control.com
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: Q: Navaid servo location |
Gil asked:
> Randall,
> Isn't the fuselage mount for the Navaid servo easier to install,
> and get later access?
> The mounting I have seen is under the seat pan, attaching to the
> cross piece between the two sticks (You are building a -6 not a -4 right?)
Yes it is almost certainly _easier_ to put the servo in the fuselage.
I set mine up for installing the servo in the wing because in the
fuselage installation the servo pushrod attaches to the base of the
pilot's stick (the ones I've seen anyway) at an angle, and due to the
angle there is the potential for some pitch moment from the servo. In
the wing installation the servo pushrod is a straight shot to the
bellcrank, so no possibility of pitch moment. Most people I've talked
to who have theirs in the fuselage say there is no pitch moment, but
some do. One reason the fuselage is the favored position is that it is
nearly impossible to retrofit in the wing after it's been closed. I
borrowed a servo and made the bracket for it in the wing before I
closed it up, so now I have the option. I'll let you know how it goes,
a few years from now.... :-)
Randall Henderson
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Curt Reimer <Curt_Reimer(at)MBnet.MB.CA> |
| Subject: | Re: Bell-crank inspection opening size |
You'd better check with Van's if you intend to make the access hole
significantly bigger. That bottom skin is a structural part of the
wing. That's why the wing skin is made of .032 and .025 sheet instead of
.016. Bigger hole = less skin = weaker wing.
Curt Reimer
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | crazer(at)midwest.net (Chester Razer) |
Would someone please send me info regarding the RV that was recently
offered for sale on this list and was almost completed. I discarded the
message and a non RV list friend saw the ad in trade a plane and is
interested. The message ran about two weeks ago and I don't remember who
authored it.
thanks
Chet Razer
crazer(at)midwest.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MGGX07C(at)prodigy.com ( SCOTT GESELE) |
| Subject: | Re: Bell-crank inspection openi |
I am in the process of rigging the ailerons (wings are on the fuse)
and the opening as per plans works well enough. If you are planning
on modifying yours, check with Van's first. That wing skin is
structural and you do NOT want to make a modification that weakens
your wing. BTW, I had no problem bucking the wing rivets through the
normal opening.
-Scott N506RV- Reserved
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JamesCone(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Rivet Smiles ?? |
Actually, those rivet smiles should be called smirks. They should be
polished very smooth and filled before priming. If they don't have any
cracking of the skin they will not cause a structural problem. I just had a
technical counselor from EAA look at my project and he found every one of my
smirks and recommended that I polish them to a mirror finish and fill them up
with Bondo or other filler. He also found a crack at the junction of F622
and F624 fuselage frame members. Those are the ones just above the boarding
step. I have my RV-6A on saw horses while working on the interior and must
have put some stress on the frame members getting in and out of the plane. I
am not looking forward to drilling them out and replacing them but I must.
Jim Cone
Working on finsihing kit
jamescone(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
| Subject: | 3 way fuel valve |
For all of you flying RV's with the "old" style 3-way fuel valve
that Van's included in the kit.
After 190 hours, my fuel valve started to bind. I took it apart and
lapped it and put new fuellube on it as per RVator recommendations. This
didn't help much. The factory recommmends the 4-way valve that has a Delrin
spool design. I beleive this is what they include in theri kits now.
Because 4-way valve outlets would not match the location of my three lines
in the cockpit and I didn't want to have to re-plumb, I ordered a 3-way
Weatherhead valve from Wicks (ACS has the same valve) for $ 20.00. This
valve has the Delrin spool and it works great, much smoother that the brass
on brass valve. It is a drop-in replacement for the original valve, appears
to be of higher quality and feels like it is a little lighter. Bob Skinner
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Q: Navaid servo location |
>Gil asked:
>
>> Randall,
>> Isn't the fuselage mount for the Navaid servo easier to install,
>> and get later access?
>> The mounting I have seen is under the seat pan, attaching to the
>> cross piece between the two sticks (You are building a -6 not a -4 right?)
>
>Yes it is almost certainly _easier_ to put the servo in the fuselage.
>I set mine up for installing the servo in the wing because in the
>fuselage installation the servo pushrod attaches to the base of the
>pilot's stick (the ones I've seen anyway) at an angle, and due to the
>angle there is the potential for some pitch moment from the servo. In
>the wing installation the servo pushrod is a straight shot to the
>bellcrank, so no possibility of pitch moment. Most people I've talked
>to who have theirs in the fuselage say there is no pitch moment, but
>some do. One reason the fuselage is the favored position is that it is
>nearly impossible to retrofit in the wing after it's been closed. I
>borrowed a servo and made the bracket for it in the wing before I
>closed it up, so now I have the option. I'll let you know how it goes,
>a few years from now.... :-)
>
>Randall Henderson
>RV-6
>
Randall: I installed the servo on the co-pilot side of my RV-6 per
information supplied by Navid. I intend to look into installing the next
one in the wing of the 6-A that I'm building now. Because of the great for
and aft movement of the stick and the resulting action of the servo push
rod, location of the servo is a rather exacting undertaking. I still had
some binding of the linkages at the extreme end of travel and the small rod
ends on the servo bottomed out. I made 4 coneshaped spacers with the cone
end butting up to the bearing in order to make sure there was no chance of
putting unwanted pressure on the servo rod bearings. This worked very well
but I can't help but think that an installation in the wing would be easier
and the movements one has to contend with are almost negligible. Bob Skinner
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | crazer(at)midwest.net (Chester Razer) |
| Subject: | AN509-8R8 screw question |
I have a ? re: the installation of the machine screws on the fuel tank
skins. When you machine countersink (not dimple) the tank skin to receive
the #8 screws, in order to have a final product that is perfectly flush, is
it better to countersink such that the screw is perfectly flush or do you
want to countersink so that the screw head is slightly above the skin
surface and then attempt to tighten the screw until it is flush.
The reason I'm asking is that I recall from earlier postings that when a #3
rivet is to be machine countersunk the best method is to countersink
slightly (.001") below the skin surface and when the rivet is installed it
swells to a perfectly flush finish. This seemed to be the case with rivets
and I'm trying to install a perfect (or as close as possible) #8 tank
screw.
I realize I could experiment and find out but I don't want to re machine
countersink any holes after the plate nuts are installed.
Any tips welcome
thanks
Chet Razer
crazer(at)midwest.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | donmack(at)interaccess.com (Don Mack) |
| Subject: | Re: Bell-crank inspection opening size |
I just did this.
The only thing you have to watch out for is that the angle piece to support
the access ring will overlap a rivet for the vertical support angle that is attached
to the
rib to support the bellcrank. Not a problem though, just don't drill and install
that
rivet until you install the angle support for the access ring.
>I'm at the point where I need to fabricate the bellcrank access
>on my first wing. The plans show an opening that is about
>8-1/4 x 6 inches. I mocked this up on my wing and played around
>reaching my arm into the wing and thinking about bucking the
>rivets on the bottom skin. The result is that I would like
>to make it bigger -- say 10 to 11 inches long by 6 inches
>wide. Is there any reason why I shouldn't do this? I checked
>and the material that comes with the kit is enough to make two
>access plates this size. So unless there is some reason not to,
>I plan to go ahead and make them bigger.
>
>Doug Medema RV-6A #21140 dougm@physio-control.com
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tedd McHenry <tedd(at)idacom.hp.com> |
I want to say thank you to all of you who provided such thoughtful replies
to my question about building a Zenair. Two things stood out in your
answers. The first is an unswerving conviction that RVs are the best
choice for builders. I have liked RVs since the first time I saw one, and
everything I learn convinces me that an RV would be my best choice. The
other piece of advice I consistently received was to rent, or perhaps buy
or share, a plane to satisfy my urge to fly, but to choose an RV to satisfy
my urge to build. I think that's very sound advice.
If there are any RV builders in the Edmonton area, I'd love to meet you
and see your project. (That's Edmonton, Alberta, Canada, not Edmonton,
Kentucky!)
Thanks again,
Tedd McHenry
Edmonton
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tedd McHenry <tedd(at)idacom.hp.com> |
| Subject: | Build in Basement? |
Is building the kit in my basement realistic?
Situation
---------
I have an unfinished basement that is approximately 23'x 30'. It
has some interior walls that could be removed, and about 1/4 to
1/3 of it is occupied by stairs, furnace, and laundry room that
can't. I think I could get pieces the size of RV wings and
fuselage out via the stairs, probably by temporarily removing
part of the stairs and enlarging the outside door opening (the
house is a split rear entrance).
My motivations for using the basement
-------------------------------------
I live in Edmonton, Alberta, where the winters are long and
cold. My garage is a poorly-constructed, unheated, one-car on a
poor concrete pad; I would have to build an entirely new
garage which, though nice to have, would delay starting the
project by at least a year. I already have 220V power, good
lighting, and heat in the basement.
My concerns about building in the basement are
----------------------------------------------
- noise; bucking rivets makes a heck of a racket, so while I hope
to enlist my wife's help for some of it, she might not be too
enthusiastic about all that racket when she's trying to do
something else (she's pretty game though--she even let me rebuild
the engine from my pickup in the kitchen when I was younger and
even more foolish than I am now)
- fumes; how much of problem will fumes be when working with
primers and other chemicals; can I plan it so I only have to do
those jobs in the summer, so I can take them out to the garage,
or will I be working with odorous chemicals regularly?
- insurance; does anyone know how my house insurance company would
react to knowing I had that kind of operation going on in the
basement?
Has anyone done this? Will I be happier in the long run if I just bite
the bullet and build myself a nice garage?
Tedd McHenry
Edmonton
Haven't started yet :^(
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John E. Brick" <p01315(at)psilink.com> |
Thanks for the info. I had imagined that the extra fuel was somehow
contained in the standard fiberglass tips. Silly me. I am not
interested in extending the wings. Since I haven't started the wings
yet, maybe there are better options. I read in the archives about some
people installing the RV-6 tanks... Illinois I think. Maybe RV-8 tanks now.
I would like the extra gas for the occasional x-country... not to be
carried every day. Gross weight is an obvious problem. Another is
condensation possibly if tanks are kept partially full, or completely empty
in the case of aux tanks.
Since I think I've passed the 2000 hour mark and am still on the tail
kit, the mod better be easy.
jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
| Subject: | Re: AN509-8R8 screw question |
>I have a ? re: the installation of the machine screws on the fuel tank
>skins. When you machine countersink (not dimple) the tank skin to receive
>the #8 screws, in order to have a final product that is perfectly flush, is
>it better to countersink such that the screw is perfectly flush or do you
>want to countersink so that the screw head is slightly above the skin
>surface and then attempt to tighten the screw until it is flush.
>
>The reason I'm asking is that I recall from earlier postings that when a #3
>rivet is to be machine countersunk the best method is to countersink
>slightly (.001") below the skin surface and when the rivet is installed it
>swells to a perfectly flush finish. This seemed to be the case with rivets
>and I'm trying to install a perfect (or as close as possible) #8 tank
>screw.
>
>I realize I could experiment and find out but I don't want to re machine
>countersink any holes after the plate nuts are installed.
>
>Any tips welcome
>
>thanks
>
>
>Chet Razer
>crazer(at)midwest.net
>
> Chet: I'd vote for .001" under the surface as you would never be
able to apply enough enough force on a high screw to make it flush. Don't
forget to clamp in a pilot guide behind the area you are machine
countersinking to hold the pilot of the cutter. If you don't, there won't
be enough material to hold the pilot and you'll end up with a out of round
hole. You probably already know this trick but maybe some of the other
readers do not.
Bob Skinner RV-6 flying--building RV-6A
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | J.Ken_Hitchmough(at)magic.ca (J.Ken Hitchmough) |
| Subject: | Location of electrical components |
> Walt: I put mounted the battery and starter contactors on the
> firewall, inside the cockpit, right above the battery. That made for a
> short connection from bat to bat contactor and kept the two contactors
> out
> of the heat. I installed nutplates for AN-3 bolts. I mounted the volt.
> reg. on the sub-panel for easy access (tip-up canopy). RV-6's with wood
> props could use weight up front so if you have room, maybe the firewall
> would be a good location for the VM-1000. I've never seen the parts
> that
> make up the VM-1000 but am considering using this system on my next RV.
> I
> would appreciate hearing from anyone with their thoughts on this system.
> Thanks, Bob Skinner RV-6
On the AirBeetle, the VM1000 dpu was situated on the sub panel immedialtely
behind the lcd display (which is only about 1 inch thick). The beetle had a
sliding canopy and a slide out instrument panel, but I'm sure there is still
sufficient room on the sub panel to mount it if using a tip up. There is A LOT
of wiring to the dpu, so putting it on the firewall will mean lots of hassle
if you have to replace any part of the system. On the other hand, it will be
protected from canopy leaks.
Ken
Waiting for the warm weather to move everything to a hangar, and then......
--
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Magic Online Services Toronto Inc. (416) 591-6490
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Mayer <72652.670(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Build in Basement? |
Tedd,
I'm building an RV-4 in the basement as we speak. I have an approx 15x15'
concrete slab in an otherwise dirt-floored cellar. Builders that I've spoken to
have advised me to think everything through in regards to laying out and
assembling my kit, and that's good advice here too.
IMO, you'll need about 15' for the jig, and room for tools, storage and a bench.
In my case, I'm sure that I can build the empennage and wings in the cellar. I
actually took two sheets of plywood, strapped them together to make a 4x12'
"wing", and made sure that I could move it in and out of my cellar bulkhead.
Right until the end, you'll be building "parts". You might want to try something
similar to see if you can get everything in and out of your basement.
Good luck,
Steve
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WStucklen(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Engine/prop queston |
> I am actuall building two RV's. I started on a -3 several
>years ago and have been slowly working on it. Currently the spars
>are done, the wing ribs are prepared and I am ready to assemble the
>wings. But I just bought a 6A that came with the -E2A and a wooden
>prop. I am simply not crazy about the wooden prop. In New England
>the weather is always changing. Also, I will eventualy want to fly
>IFR and my experience is that IFR usually means rain.
>
>Cheryl
>
>
Cheryl:
I had the same reservations with the wood prop. Put about 100 Hrs on it,
then bought the Sensenich metal prop. Picked up 10 MPH over the wood prop,
and now feel comfortable flying in the rain.
Where in New England are you? I'm based at 7B6, Warehouse Point, Ct,. If
your ever looking for a ride, or some local help, let me know.
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV 7B6
wstucklen(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WStucklen(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: IFR (Instrument Flight & Re |
>With all this bad talk about the IFR gyros, can anyone recommend a
>brand that works just fine in an RV. Would a bypass valve between
>the gyros and vacuum regulator solve the problem of destroying the
>gyros while doing aerobatics?
>
>-Scott
>
>
NO..... There are still excessive forces on the bearings, even witout the
gyro turning. Also, there MAY be an FAA legality issue with the bypass valve.
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
wstucklen(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DerFlieger(at)aol.com |
(Plains Electric EMS) writes:
>Does anyone know where I can get those 1" round panel plugs. I want
>three of them; 2 for wheel pants and one for the tail spring bolt hole
>cover. I can't seem to find the #$%# things anywhere? TIA
>
>
Try a good plumbing shop.
Jim Stugart, Austin,TX
DerFlieger(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rso(at)css.ncifcrf.gov (Becki Orndorff) |
| Subject: | Re: Build in Basement? |
Tedd,
George and I have built two airplanes in our basement. While ours is
larger than yours, you really only need the area of a one car garage to
build an RV. The noise could be contained in the basement by insulating the
basement ceiling. Most of the annoying noise comes from the air compressor.
The riveting is short bursts and I don't really notice it when I am upstair
and George is riveting in the basement. Just convince your wife that she
will be able to go all kinds of wonderful places and she will probably
support you and not bother about the riveting. It won't be nearly as messy
as an engine in the kitchen.
As for the fumes, we always prime outside on sunny days. With
Vari-prime, we have had good success as long as the temperature was above
freezing.
We made it quite clear to our insurance agent that we were building an
airplane in our basement. We wanted to be sure the plane would be insured
if the house burned or fell down. They never batted an eye and said the
plane was covered the same as a couch or tv. You won't be doing anything
that endangers the house structure so they shouldn't care.
You will probably need to find a hanger when you get toward the end of
the project for finishing. Check all the dimensions of the wings and
fuselage to make sure you can get them out of the basement. A friend of
ours build wood mockups to make sure he could get them out of the basement.
Good luck with your decision and happy building!
Becki Orndorff
>Is building the kit in my basement realistic?
>
>Situation
>---------
>
>I have an unfinished basement that is approximately 23'x 30'. It
>has some interior walls that could be removed, and about 1/4 to
>1/3 of it is occupied by stairs, furnace, and laundry room that
>can't. I think I could get pieces the size of RV wings and
>fuselage out via the stairs, probably by temporarily removing
>part of the stairs and enlarging the outside door opening (the
>house is a split rear entrance).
>
>My motivations for using the basement
>-------------------------------------
>
>I live in Edmonton, Alberta, where the winters are long and
>cold. My garage is a poorly-constructed, unheated, one-car on a
>poor concrete pad; I would have to build an entirely new
>garage which, though nice to have, would delay starting the
>project by at least a year. I already have 220V power, good
>lighting, and heat in the basement.
>
>My concerns about building in the basement are
>----------------------------------------------
>
>- noise; bucking rivets makes a heck of a racket, so while I hope
> to enlist my wife's help for some of it, she might not be too
> enthusiastic about all that racket when she's trying to do
> something else (she's pretty game though--she even let me rebuild
> the engine from my pickup in the kitchen when I was younger and
> even more foolish than I am now)
>
>- fumes; how much of problem will fumes be when working with
> primers and other chemicals; can I plan it so I only have to do
> those jobs in the summer, so I can take them out to the garage,
> or will I be working with odorous chemicals regularly?
>
>- insurance; does anyone know how my house insurance company would
> react to knowing I had that kind of operation going on in the
> basement?
>
>Has anyone done this? Will I be happier in the long run if I just bite
>the bullet and build myself a nice garage?
>
>Tedd McHenry
>Edmonton
>Haven't started yet :^(
>
>
Becki Orndorff
NCI-FCRDC, Computer & Statistical Services
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "LE_MAILBOX" <le_mailbox(at)qmgate.anl.gov> |
| Subject: | Rejected by Custodian |
Mail*Link(r) SMTP RV-List: 3 way fuel valve
For all of you flying RV's with the "old" style 3-way fuel valve
that Van's included in the kit.
After 190 hours, my fuel valve started to bind. I took it apart and
lapped it and put new fuellube on it as per RVator recommendations. This
didn't help much. The factory recommmends the 4-way valve that has a Delrin
spool design. I beleive this is what they include in theri kits now.
Because 4-way valve outlets would not match the location of my three lines
in the cockpit and I didn't want to have to re-plumb, I ordered a 3-way
Weatherhead valve from Wicks (ACS has the same valve) for $ 20.00. This
valve has the Delrin spool and it works great, much smoother that the brass
on brass valve. It is a drop-in replacement for the original valve, appears
to be of higher quality and feels like it is a little lighter. Bob Skinner
------------------ RFC822 Header Follows ------------------
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 21:03:36 -0600
From: Bob Skinner <ltec.net!BSkinner(at)matronics.com>
Subject: RV-List: 3 way fuel valve
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dennis Kane <dennis(at)straylight.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Build in Basement? |
708-665-1178 Your might want to call Ted Holbein, in Wheaton Il,
he is doing
-ex-actly what you want to do (is working of fuselage right now),
his number is 708-665-1178. Tell him you got his # from me.
Respectfully,
Dennis Kane
STRAYlight Aviation Ephemera
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | walsh(at)cpeedy.ENET.dec.com |
| Subject: | Build in Basement |
I'm building my RV4 in the basement and a local builder has built and
almost completed another RV4 in his basement. I consider the basement to
be the preferred location and would move to the garage only if necessary.
Obviously, others may disagree.
I live in New Hampshire and I prime outside if the temp is at least 40F or so.
This is per Becki Orndorff who mentioned here a week or so ago that she and
George prime outside if the temp is above freezing. For me, this means that
I can prime outside about 70% of the time. The rest of the time, I have a
small "booth" in the basement which encloses one of the basement windows.
I put a fan in the window and turn it on to suck the fumes out. It is not
yet 100% effective but I'm still working on it.
Riveting makes a small burst of noise for a few seconds. When your compressor
kicks in, that's when the real noise starts. My wife, who can be a fuss bucket
about things like that has never complained. Neither has my two year old
daughter. It helps if you can get a large capacity compressor that is relativelyquiet.
I think it helps to get your wife involved. Mine does all of the skin
riveting ( I do the bucking ). The bucking is the hard part, so I prefer to
have her do something that is a little more fun and shows results immediately.
Your insurance will almost certainly NOT cover your airplane under construction.I
don't believe there are any prohibitions against building airplanes anymore
than there would be about building furniture or other things in your basement.
If you do decide to upgrade your garage, build your tail kit first. You can
certainly do that in the basement. You'll have something accomplished and then
can think about garage work. If you have decided to build, don't put it off.
Everybody does and everybody wishes they started sooner.
Good luck
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Plains Electric EMS <pla_ems(at)nmia.com> |
I tried an idea to create labels for breakers etc and it worked great.
I went to office max and bought a box of transparency film for laser
printers (not cheap $20). I then created all the labels I needed and
more and printed. They came out really nice (I printed several copies
on paper first). Cut them out, used white glue (wood glue, it dries
clear) and now I have good looking labels, replaceable, simple.
Dan Boudro
RV-4 N9167Z
albuquerque
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Johnson, Steve" <spjohnson(at)msmail.mmmg.com> |
Hi all,
The recent discussion on gyros has been very helpful and got me thinking about
my own plans. A pilot report sometime this last year on a very expensive
aerobatic monoplane (I think it was in AOPA Pilot) showed an interesting
solution to the problem. The artificial horizon was mounted above the DG on a
small easily removable sub-panel. The gyros would stay on the ground when
doing acro, and the sub-panel would be replaced with a blank one. This would
require the very expensive electric R. C. Allen gyros. I am thinking that I
could go without gyros initially but plan for this arrangement, and put the
gyros in after some financial recovery time when the plane is completed. Any
opinions?
Steve Johnson
Waiting on the RV-8
spjohnson(at)mmm.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | cn755(at)freenet.carleton.ca (Catherine Lamport) |
| Subject: | Re: Build in Basement? |
As far as compressor noise goes, my husband was able to put his
compressor in the garage and then run the hose through a hole to
the basement. Certainly a lot less noisy. The noise I do hear
is music to my ears, knowing what the end result will be.
Cathy Lamport
Wife of RV6A Builder
Nepean, Ontario, Canada
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Plains Electric EMS <pla_ems(at)nmia.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Build in Basement? |
You must have a great insurance company Becki! My homeowners policy
explictly excludes aircraft and aircraft parts. I had to get a seperate
insurance policy for the plane, fortunately thought it automatically
converts to a liability policy for the AC once I get it flying and the
rates is reasonable.
Dan Boudro
RV-4 N9167Z
Albuquerque
On Thu, 7 Dec 1995, Becki Orndorff wrote:
> Tedd,
> George and I have built two airplanes in our basement. While ours is
> larger than yours, you really only need the area of a one car garage to
> build an RV. The noise could be contained in the basement by insulating the
> basement ceiling. Most of the annoying noise comes from the air compressor.
> The riveting is short bursts and I don't really notice it when I am upstair
> and George is riveting in the basement. Just convince your wife that she
> will be able to go all kinds of wonderful places and she will probably
> support you and not bother about the riveting. It won't be nearly as messy
> as an engine in the kitchen.
> As for the fumes, we always prime outside on sunny days. With
> Vari-prime, we have had good success as long as the temperature was above
> freezing.
> We made it quite clear to our insurance agent that we were building an
> airplane in our basement. We wanted to be sure the plane would be insured
> if the house burned or fell down. They never batted an eye and said the
> plane was covered the same as a couch or tv. You won't be doing anything
> that endangers the house structure so they shouldn't care.
> You will probably need to find a hanger when you get toward the end of
> the project for finishing. Check all the dimensions of the wings and
> fuselage to make sure you can get them out of the basement. A friend of
> ours build wood mockups to make sure he could get them out of the basement.
> Good luck with your decision and happy building!
> Becki Orndorff
>
> >Is building the kit in my basement realistic?
> >
> >Situation
> >---------
> >
> >I have an unfinished basement that is approximately 23'x 30'. It
> >has some interior walls that could be removed, and about 1/4 to
> >1/3 of it is occupied by stairs, furnace, and laundry room that
> >can't. I think I could get pieces the size of RV wings and
> >fuselage out via the stairs, probably by temporarily removing
> >part of the stairs and enlarging the outside door opening (the
> >house is a split rear entrance).
> >
> >My motivations for using the basement
> >-------------------------------------
> >
> >I live in Edmonton, Alberta, where the winters are long and
> >cold. My garage is a poorly-constructed, unheated, one-car on a
> >poor concrete pad; I would have to build an entirely new
> >garage which, though nice to have, would delay starting the
> >project by at least a year. I already have 220V power, good
> >lighting, and heat in the basement.
> >
> >My concerns about building in the basement are
> >----------------------------------------------
> >
> >- noise; bucking rivets makes a heck of a racket, so while I hope
> > to enlist my wife's help for some of it, she might not be too
> > enthusiastic about all that racket when she's trying to do
> > something else (she's pretty game though--she even let me rebuild
> > the engine from my pickup in the kitchen when I was younger and
> > even more foolish than I am now)
> >
> >- fumes; how much of problem will fumes be when working with
> > primers and other chemicals; can I plan it so I only have to do
> > those jobs in the summer, so I can take them out to the garage,
> > or will I be working with odorous chemicals regularly?
> >
> >- insurance; does anyone know how my house insurance company would
> > react to knowing I had that kind of operation going on in the
> > basement?
> >
> >Has anyone done this? Will I be happier in the long run if I just bite
> >the bullet and build myself a nice garage?
> >
> >Tedd McHenry
> >Edmonton
> >Haven't started yet :^(
> >
> >
> Becki Orndorff
> NCI-FCRDC, Computer & Statistical Services
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jpl(at)showpg.mn.org (Joe Larson) |
| Subject: | Re: Build in Basement? |
> Is building the kit in my basement realistic?
Go for it *after* you make *sure* you can get everything out that you
build down there. I would recommend you cut a piece of plywood the
size of the wings, for instance, and get it in and out.
I have a walk-out basement. Makes it much easier. You could also
consider adding an exterior access of some sort, depending upon how
brave you are.
As for the noise -- there is some, but it's not that bad. You squeeze
a lot more rivets than you buck, and most of the rivets you buck, you'll
appreciate your wife's help on, anyways.
-Joe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dierks(at)austin.ibm.com |
| Subject: | Re: AN509-8R8 screw question (fwd) |
One more thing to consider is the paint thickness.
I recommend you paint the tanks with them removed from the wings.
This means the holes will have paint applied to them (primer plus top coat).
That can eaisly be sveral thousands thick.
Jim Stugart suggested I paint may tanks off of the wing.
This has several advantages.
1) If you have to ever remove them, the paint will not crack around
the seams to the wing.
2) When you install the wings, it is much easier to install without the
wing on.
You can stand next to the fuselage and put in all the center section
bolts and do other work on the cockpit. With the tanks on you have
to be crawling on the wing or get into the cockpit.
I actually painted my tanks with the tanks slipped onto the wing but
just enough to hold them on (about 3/8 inch back from fully seated.
This held them in the same jig as the wing for painting.
Herman
>
> >I have a ? re: the installation of the machine screws on the fuel tank
> >skins. When you machine countersink (not dimple) the tank skin to receive
> >the #8 screws, in order to have a final product that is perfectly flush, is
> >it better to countersink such that the screw is perfectly flush or do you
> >want to countersink so that the screw head is slightly above the skin
> >surface and then attempt to tighten the screw until it is flush.
> >
> >The reason I'm asking is that I recall from earlier postings that when a #3
> >rivet is to be machine countersunk the best method is to countersink
> >slightly (.001") below the skin surface and when the rivet is installed it
> >swells to a perfectly flush finish. This seemed to be the case with rivets
> >and I'm trying to install a perfect (or as close as possible) #8 tank
> >screw.
> >
> >I realize I could experiment and find out but I don't want to re machine
> >countersink any holes after the plate nuts are installed.
> >
> >Any tips welcome
> >
> >thanks
> >
> >
> >Chet Razer
> >crazer(at)midwest.net
> >
> > Chet: I'd vote for .001" under the surface as you would never be
> able to apply enough enough force on a high screw to make it flush. Don't
> forget to clamp in a pilot guide behind the area you are machine
> countersinking to hold the pilot of the cutter. If you don't, there won't
> be enough material to hold the pilot and you'll end up with a out of round
> hole. You probably already know this trick but maybe some of the other
> readers do not.
> Bob Skinner RV-6 flying--building RV-6A
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dierks(at)austin.ibm.com |
| Subject: | Re: Build in Basement? (insurance) |
I am a little concerned that the response from Becki about insurance.
I have never seen a home owners insurance policy that covers Aircraft.
At least here in Texas, any aircraft items are listed as NOT COVERED.
This is also in line with what most aircraft insurance companies will tell you.
If you expect to have your project covered, it takes a seperate policy
from an aircraft insurer.
You may still want to check with your insurance agent regarding the building
in a basement voiding your house insurance. I don't think it would but
they may be concerned about paint and flamables.
Herman
>
> Tedd,
> George and I have built two airplanes in our basement. While ours is
(stuff deleted)
> We made it quite clear to our insurance agent that we were building an
> airplane in our basement. We wanted to be sure the plane would be insured
> if the house burned or fell down. They never batted an eye and said the
> plane was covered the same as a couch or tv. You won't be doing anything
> that endangers the house structure so they shouldn't care.
> Becki Orndorff
>
> >Is building the kit in my basement realistic?
> >
> >
> >- insurance; does anyone know how my house insurance company would
> > react to knowing I had that kind of operation going on in the
> > basement?
> >
> >
> >Tedd McHenry
> >Edmonton
> >Haven't started yet :^(
> >
> >
> Becki Orndorff
> NCI-FCRDC, Computer & Statistical Services
>
>
Herman Dierks, Dept. E54S, AWSD Austin, Texas
mail: dierks(at)austin.ibm.com VM: DIERKS at AUSVM6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rso(at)css.ncifcrf.gov (Becki Orndorff) |
| Subject: | Re: Build in Basement? |
Dan,
We are insured with State Farm. I'm sure what we are paying for house
contents is slightly higher. I have no idea what the price difference would
be for insuring through the home owners or as a separate policy like you
have. I'm sure we had our agent check this out. If I am wrong, I'll get
back to y'all. George knows the details and isn't available today.
Becki Orndorff
>You must have a great insurance company Becki! My homeowners policy
>explictly excludes aircraft and aircraft parts. I had to get a seperate
>insurance policy for the plane, fortunately thought it automatically
>converts to a liability policy for the AC once I get it flying and the
>rates is reasonable.
>Dan Boudro
>RV-4 N9167Z
>Albuquerque
>
>On Thu, 7 Dec 1995, Becki Orndorff wrote:
>
>> Tedd,
>> George and I have built two airplanes in our basement. While ours is
>> larger than yours, you really only need the area of a one car garage to
>> build an RV. The noise could be contained in the basement by insulating the
>> basement ceiling. Most of the annoying noise comes from the air compressor.
>> The riveting is short bursts and I don't really notice it when I am upstair
>> and George is riveting in the basement. Just convince your wife that she
>> will be able to go all kinds of wonderful places and she will probably
>> support you and not bother about the riveting. It won't be nearly as messy
>> as an engine in the kitchen.
>> As for the fumes, we always prime outside on sunny days. With
>> Vari-prime, we have had good success as long as the temperature was above
>> freezing.
>> We made it quite clear to our insurance agent that we were building an
>> airplane in our basement. We wanted to be sure the plane would be insured
>> if the house burned or fell down. They never batted an eye and said the
>> plane was covered the same as a couch or tv. You won't be doing anything
>> that endangers the house structure so they shouldn't care.
>> You will probably need to find a hanger when you get toward the end of
>> the project for finishing. Check all the dimensions of the wings and
>> fuselage to make sure you can get them out of the basement. A friend of
>> ours build wood mockups to make sure he could get them out of the basement.
>> Good luck with your decision and happy building!
>> Becki Orndorff
>>
>> >Is building the kit in my basement realistic?
>> >
>> >Situation
>> >---------
>> >
>> >I have an unfinished basement that is approximately 23'x 30'. It
>> >has some interior walls that could be removed, and about 1/4 to
>> >1/3 of it is occupied by stairs, furnace, and laundry room that
>> >can't. I think I could get pieces the size of RV wings and
>> >fuselage out via the stairs, probably by temporarily removing
>> >part of the stairs and enlarging the outside door opening (the
>> >house is a split rear entrance).
>> >
>> >My motivations for using the basement
>> >-------------------------------------
>> >
>> >I live in Edmonton, Alberta, where the winters are long and
>> >cold. My garage is a poorly-constructed, unheated, one-car on a
>> >poor concrete pad; I would have to build an entirely new
>> >garage which, though nice to have, would delay starting the
>> >project by at least a year. I already have 220V power, good
>> >lighting, and heat in the basement.
>> >
>> >My concerns about building in the basement are
>> >----------------------------------------------
>> >
>> >- noise; bucking rivets makes a heck of a racket, so while I hope
>> > to enlist my wife's help for some of it, she might not be too
>> > enthusiastic about all that racket when she's trying to do
>> > something else (she's pretty game though--she even let me rebuild
>> > the engine from my pickup in the kitchen when I was younger and
>> > even more foolish than I am now)
>> >
>> >- fumes; how much of problem will fumes be when working with
>> > primers and other chemicals; can I plan it so I only have to do
>> > those jobs in the summer, so I can take them out to the garage,
>> > or will I be working with odorous chemicals regularly?
>> >
>> >- insurance; does anyone know how my house insurance company would
>> > react to knowing I had that kind of operation going on in the
>> > basement?
>> >
>> >Has anyone done this? Will I be happier in the long run if I just bite
>> >the bullet and build myself a nice garage?
>> >
>> >Tedd McHenry
>> >Edmonton
>> >Haven't started yet :^(
>> >
>> >
>> Becki Orndorff
>> NCI-FCRDC, Computer & Statistical Services
>>
>>
>
>
Becki Orndorff
NCI-FCRDC, Computer & Statistical Services
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Ruble <cruble(at)cisco.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Aerobatic Gyros |
The answer to the $64K question is to buy "cageable" gyros. RC allen is
selling them now. Pick up a copy of Trade-A-plane or get a copy of the
Chief Aero Parts catalog. They are more expensive, but nowhere near the
cost of the Electric units from RC Allen or BF Goodrich.
Chris
>
> Hi all,
>
> The recent discussion on gyros has been very helpful and got me thinking about
> my own plans. A pilot report sometime this last year on a very expensive
> aerobatic monoplane (I think it was in AOPA Pilot) showed an interesting
> solution to the problem. The artificial horizon was mounted above the DG on
a
> small easily removable sub-panel. The gyros would stay on the ground when
> doing acro, and the sub-panel would be replaced with a blank one. This would
> require the very expensive electric R. C. Allen gyros. I am thinking that I
> could go without gyros initially but plan for this arrangement, and put the
> gyros in after some financial recovery time when the plane is completed. Any
> opinions?
>
> Steve Johnson
> Waiting on the RV-8
> spjohnson(at)mmm.com
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rso(at)css.ncifcrf.gov (Becki Orndorff) |
Y'all,
I just called State Farm. My policy excludes aircraft and aircraft
parts. I guess my agent originally interpretted the kit as not being an
aircraft part. When the kit is finished, it is an aircraft part and no
longer covered. I'm sure this is open to interpretation by the insurance
company and we all know how many of those we win. I was WRONG!!! Buy a
separate policy to cover the aircraft while building whether in your house,
garage or hanger if you feel it is necessary. I am sorry for the
mis-information!
Becki Orndorff
Becki Orndorff
NCI-FCRDC, Computer & Statistical Services
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard E Steffens" <RESTEFFE(at)dpcmail.dukepower.com> |
| Subject: | RE: Basement Building |
Question related to basement/shop building.
How many times do you have to put on and take off the wings in a RV-6
prior to the final time before the test flight.
I have enough room in my shop to fit the wings if I move things around
a bit. If several fitting sessions are necessary it will be worth it
to keep the plane in the shop. If only one or two fitups are needed,
then it might be better to move to the airport and save screwing up
the shop. I plan to paint the pieces in the shop before moveing to the
airport.
Dick Steffens
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: Rv-4 Tip Tanks |
> Thanks for the info. I had imagined that the extra fuel was somehow
> contained in the standard fiberglass tips. Silly me. I am not
> interested in extending the wings. Since I haven't started the wings
> yet, maybe there are better options. I read in the archives about some
> people installing the RV-6 tanks... Illinois I think. Maybe RV-8 tanks now.
Call Doug Stenger, (503) 324-6993 is a custom RV sub-assembly builder,
primarily wings. He has built several RV-4 wings with RV-6 tanks, and
he really knows his stuff. If you are serious about this, give him a call.
Randall Henderson
RV-6
PS. Tell him I sent you (so he knows who to blame).
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | 14 years of RV-ator |
2400 have already been sold, but about 25 copies remain. So to sell out by
Christmas, these last copies are now on sale for $19.95.
If it only reminds you to drill drain holes in the rudder it could be worth
10 times the price. But it's much more than that. 14 Years of the RV-Ator is
over 230 pages of back issue articles in a usable order. EVERYTHING ever
printed about the tail components, laid out in the order in which you build
them. Then the wings, fuselage, finishing, engine, props, panel, flying,
performance, safety, etc...
In short, if it was in an RV-Ator, it's in here; easy to use and at your
fingertips as a builder's reference andd for the flying RV pilot.
Recommended by Van's, Avery Tool, Aircraft Spruce, and 2400 other RV builders
like you.
Easy Publishing
328 Luscombe Dr
Los Lunas, NM 87031
(505) 865-3466
(505) 866-7308 fax
e-mail pfpa(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
I've thought about making instrument labels this way, but the probelem
is I plan on painting the panel black. Anyone have any good ideas on
how to make labels easily and cheaply, but with white text?
Randall Henderson
> I tried an idea to create labels for breakers etc and it worked great.
> I went to office max and bought a box of transparency film for laser
> printers (not cheap $20). I then created all the labels I needed and
> more and printed. They came out really nice (I printed several copies
> on paper first). Cut them out, used white glue (wood glue, it dries
> clear) and now I have good looking labels, replaceable, simple.
> Dan Boudro
> RV-4 N9167Z
> albuquerque
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MGGX07C(at)prodigy.com ( SCOTT GESELE) |
| Subject: | Re: Build in Basement? |
I am insured with State Farm and they told me that under no
circumstances will the kit be covered under the home owners insurance.
They wouldn't touch the project with a ten foot pole and suggested
that I contact a specialized aviation insurance company (Avemco) for
a policy.
-Scott
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Day" <sday(at)pharmcomp.com> |
>I've thought about making instrument labels this way, but the probelem
>is I plan on painting the panel black. Anyone have any good ideas on
>how to make labels easily and cheaply, but with white text?
Not sure how cheap you want to go, but you could always just use a laser
printer and not print your text. What I mean is use something like Aldus
page maker and create a black box and write the instrument text in white.
You can probably do this in MS Word or any decent word processor. Is this
the type of labels you mean?
Or you can take a sheet of thin plastic like an overhead projector uses, but
in black. Find someone with leather puch tools that has letters, and punch
the letters through the plastic and put a sheet of white something behind
the black plastic.
If these are the types of ideas you're looking for I might be able to come
up with a couple other ones.
-Steve Day
sday(at)pharmcomp.com
(CK ID - RV6a RV for short)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: Build in Basement? |
Several people have commented that the noise of building an RV is
infrequent and not that bad. I find myself wondering what I'm doing
differently -- it seems like I'm always reaching for the hearing
protectors. It is true that riveting takes a relatively small
percentage of the time, and you can certainly get a quieter compresser
than my DeVilbiss, but there's also noise from:
- Bandsaw
- Grinder/scotch-brite wheel
- Die Grinder with scotch-brite, cut-off wheel, or rotary file
- Dremel tool w/ cut-off wheel or engraving bit
- Drill press/fly cutter
- Compressor
- Jethro Tull
I'm not saying the noise is a problem for me, although it probably
would be if I hadn't taken the time to insulate my garage before
I started. But don't fool yourself, if you have a noise-sensitivity
issue (neighbors, etc.) you may have to deal with it.
Randall Henderson
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | boudro <pla_ems(at)nmia.com> |
You might try the same thing and use a color laser?
Dan Boudro
RV-4 N9167Z
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Ruble <cruble(at)cisco.com> |
>
> I've thought about making instrument labels this way, but the probelem
> is I plan on painting the panel black. Anyone have any good ideas on
> how to make labels easily and cheaply, but with white text?
>
> Randall Henderson
>
You could use the "rub-on" letters. They can be had at most hobby
shops. The modle train guys use them. There is a learning curve to
their application, but when you learn to use them they are easy to
apply. They come in many different colors sizes and fonts.
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Brown <jmbrown(at)uucphost.aimnet.com> |
Brother makes a label machine that uses cartridges for it labels. You
can get different color, both foreground and background. It costs
about $100. I have found many uses for it around the house and shop.
Just a thought.
jmbrown
>
> I've thought about making instrument labels this way, but the probelem
> is I plan on painting the panel black. Anyone have any good ideas on
> how to make labels easily and cheaply, but with white text?
>
> Randall Henderson
>
> > I tried an idea to create labels for breakers etc and it worked great.
> > I went to office max and bought a box of transparency film for laser
> > printers (not cheap $20). I then created all the labels I needed and
> > more and printed. They came out really nice (I printed several copies
> > on paper first). Cut them out, used white glue (wood glue, it dries
> > clear) and now I have good looking labels, replaceable, simple.
> > Dan Boudro
> > RV-4 N9167Z
> > albuquerque
>
-------sig cut here-------
jmbrown(at)aimnet.com PP-ASEL
jmbrown(at)BayNetworks.com
Building an RV-6 #23568 N610JB "The Golden BeeBee"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JDelveau(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | elevator/stab tips |
I am about to attach the fiberglass tips to the elevators and stab and the
plans call for 1/8 inch counter sunk pop rivets at 2" spacing. Every time I
see pop rivets in such obvious places I stop and study to make sure I'm not
about to do something I'll regret. Is this like it seems or is there another
way or modified approach to this step?
Thanks Again---
Jim Delveau 6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dierks(at)austin.ibm.com |
| Subject: | RE: Basement Building (fwd) |
You should only have to put the wings on and off once and then again
at final assembly (for a RV4 or Rv6, don't know about a 6A).
This assumes you don't forget to do something and have to put them back on.
The types of things to do with the wings on are:
When you put them on, you install the ailerons/flaps and then make and
adjust all the push/pull tubes and rig the controls.
Drill the rear spar attach after squaring and setting the incidence.
Attach wing tanks and make/drill fuselage attach fitting.
Make root fairings.
Drill bottom fuselage skin to wing root attach hole (install nut plates
after wing is removed.
Make fuel lines.
You do a similar exercise with the tail components, usually at the same
time but can be done seperatly.
Herman
> From root Thu Dec 7 13:55:26 1995
> Errors-To: bounces(at)matronics.com
> Date: Thu, 07 Dec 95 13:25:58 EST
> From: "Richard E Steffens" <dpcmail.dukepower.com!RESTEFFE(at)matronics.com>
>
> Question related to basement/shop building.
>
> How many times do you have to put on and take off the wings in a RV-6
> prior to the final time before the test flight.
>
> I have enough room in my shop to fit the wings if I move things around
> a bit. If several fitting sessions are necessary it will be worth it
> to keep the plane in the shop. If only one or two fitups are needed,
> then it might be better to move to the airport and save screwing up
> the shop. I plan to paint the pieces in the shop before moveing to the
> airport.
>
> Dick Steffens
>
Herman Dierks, Dept. E54S, AWSD Austin, Texas
mail: dierks(at)austin.ibm.com VM: DIERKS at AUSVM6
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | compressor noise and drill press |
My previous post and the promised follow up:
>I'm buying a compressor next week. I looked at the same one you saw
>at Home Depot. Instead I'm getting almost the same thing
>from Sam's (like Pace, but owned by same guy as Walmart) in North
>Carolina. It's a Sanborn, belt driven, oil type which uses
>15 amps at 240 volts; these are the same specs as the Campbell
>Hausfeld. Their both made in usa. It was at or near 6hp, but I
>stopped paying attention to hp ratings since so many manufacturers
>warp this number (I just do the amps and volts thing). BTW,
>I just sold my oil-less compressor cuz it was so loud; I hope
>this new one is quieter. I'll make another append next week.
*** It's WAY quieter!!! ***
Like being in a cockpit with vs without a headset (or maybe an
even greater difference). It also puts out a lot of air.
I guess this compressor is well suited to me; I'm a quiet guy,
but sometimes I can still put out ... never mind ;-(
At least it's safe to smoke around the compressor (relatively
speaking of course).
>Almost forgot, the Sanborn is $299. Sam's also has a 15a, 110v
>Coleman compressor for $279. It says Coleman on the outside, but
>some of the parts are EXACTLY the same as the Sanborn. The coleman
>can also be hooked up 7.5a at 220v. No 110v wiring for the big
>Sanborn.
>
>Drill press: I can't remember the rpms, but I think my Delta 17"(?)
>floor press goes down to 250. I've had it for 5 years and I like
>it. I'm not sure of the price. I'd guess that it's of about
I just saw an ad somewhere, the delta floor model was $279.
--- snip ---
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Don Karl karl@dg-rtp.dg.com (919)248-5915
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JZidek7003(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Build in Basement? |
I am building an RV-4 in our basement. We have a walkout door on one side
and I know it will come out. I started the tail feathers in October and
completed them on Sept. 30th . I am know working in the wings. I am
building both wings at the same time. I think that this is the only way to
go. Right know both wings are in the jigs, both leading edges are done and
the tanks are ready for pro-seal which I plan to do next week. I hope to have
both wings done by the first of the year. This is my first airplane project
and what fun it is. I see that a lot of people are concerned about the nasty
smell that primmers can leave. I am not sure if it is up to code but I
installed a standard box fan in one of the small basement windows then built
a small room approx. 8X10 our of 2X4s and completely inclosed it with plastic
including the ceiling. I then put a standard door and a furance filter in
one of the walls to alow fresh air to get in. It works great. My wife who
smells everything dosen't smell it. One reason I think I have gotten as much
done on my plane as I have in such a short time is because it is in my
basement. If I have only a half hour I will go down and work for that half
hour. It is allways comfortably warm and cool in the summer. I also am able
to have a small TV, frig. VCR, ect. If you can build it in the basement by
all means do it.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Phil Arter <arter(at)acd.acd.ucar.edu> |
| Subject: | AC-43.13 Availability |
RVers
AC-43.13 parts 1a & 2a are available from the U.S. Government Printing
Office. I got mine from the GPO Bookstore in the Denver Federal Building
(303)844-3964. They will take orders by phone if you have a Mastercard, and
ship by U.S Mail.
Phil Arter
RV-6 (just wrote the check for the empennage kit today!)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BHamlin1(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Build in Basement? |
I'm building the RV4 tail kit in my basement.
I figure I can build tail and wings and get them out via the stairs - I have
no external
bulkhead. I may even go ahead and build the fuselage down there. It may be
the
cheaper to cut a bulkhead than any alternatives - renting hangar space
($250/mo
around here), buying another house, etc...
Brad Hamlin
RV4 HS
Walpole MA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Elon Ormsby" <Elon.Ormsby(at)quickmail.llnl.gov> |
REGARDING Label Stuff
Great idea on using your laser printer to produce the labels. But as
mentioned, black may be the wrong color for some applications. Also, my
experience with transparencies is that the print is not very durable. Kinda
like sintered powder that soon rubs off or weathers away. Of course you could
protect it with a clear cover but now we are getting away from a simple
application.
My idea will be more trouble but the results will be outstanding. Use your
laser printer idea to make a MASK for a silk-screen. You create a negative
image (with the laser printed transparency) and lay that on top of
photo-sensitive silk-screen film. After exposure to uv light and a wash, you
now have a silk-screen image that can be PAINTED any color on you panel. Of
course with an existing panel, this is difficult but any new fab will be easy.
UV sensitive materials are available at any art supply store. As well as the
screen materials and frames. Sunlight or florescent lights are ok as a uv
source but due to the length of exposure you sometimes do not get good, crisp
edge definition. A uv light makes the process very quick and gives a sharper
image.
Elon
ormsby1(at)llnl.gov
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John.Morrissey(at)its.csiro.au (John Morrissey) |
| Subject: | Starter Motor supplier info please! |
Hi Fellow RV'ers,
I know that this is not directly related to building an RV
but I have a current "aviation habit to support" while I'm
working on the RV4.
My problem:- I have a Jodel D11 homebuilt with a Continental
0-200 swinging a wooded prop. If I am unlucky enough to have
the engine kick back while I'm starting it, it will tear the
guts out of the starting clutch. $800 to repair each time.
I have seen adds for replacement starters from a company
called B&C Speciality Products Inc in the US. Does anybody
have any contact info for this company??
To avoid cluttering up the list please reply direct to me at
John.Morrissey(at)its.csiro.au
Thanks for you help!!
John Morrissey
RV4
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Curt Reimer <Curt_Reimer(at)MBnet.MB.CA> |
On Thu, 7 Dec 1995, Randall Henderson wrote:
> I've thought about making instrument labels this way, but the probelem
> is I plan on painting the panel black. Anyone have any good ideas on
> how to make labels easily and cheaply, but with white text?
I've thought about this quite a bit, which is surprising since I have
about 10,000 more rivets to drive first.
You could use one of those electronic label makers. They make good
looking labels and will do white on black. I'm not sure, but they might
also do white on clear, which would be ideal for a black panel. The label
machines aren't cheap (~$100) but you might be able to borrow one.
What I will probably do is have little lamicoid signs made up. A friend
of mine has a plastic fabrication business with a computer router that
can crank these things out automatically from an autocad-type file.
(Lamicoid signs/labels are those industrial kind of black plastic signs
with the recessed white lettering. You would find them in a factory
identifying switches and things.) Anyway, this computer router can
apparently do text so small that you need a magnifying glass to read it!
If anyone would like some more details, like price, name, ph. number, etc,
let me know. You might also find a local manufacturer who can turn these out.
What I figured on doing was preparing my own cad file and getting him to
engrave all of my labels on a single sheet of lamicoid plastic, then I'll
cut 'em apart myself and glue them to the panel.
This is just an idea. I haven't actually tried it yet.
Curt Reimer
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank K Justice <Frank_K_Justice(at)ccm.ssd.intel.com> |
| Subject: | Re: elevator/stab tips |
Text item:
>I am about to attach the fiberglass tips to the elevators and stab and the
>plans call for 1/8 inch counter sunk pop rivets at 2" spacing. Every time I
>see pop rivets in such obvious places I stop and study to make sure I'm not
>about to do something I'll regret.
At some point in the project you will begin to regret that you blew a whole lot
of time and messed up some skins by trying heroic measures to avoid pop rivets.
On the elevator tips bond them on with a good structural adhesive such as 3M
(auto body and paint supply stores) and put a few pop rivets on the underside if
the glue alone makes you nervous.
FKJ
Text item: External Message Header
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Subject: RV-List: elevator/stab tips
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 16:46:52 -0500
From: aol.com!JDelveau(at)matronics.com
4.1)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: elevator/stab tips |
>
> I am about to attach the fiberglass tips to the elevators and stab and the
> plans call for 1/8 inch counter sunk pop rivets at 2" spacing. Every time I
> see pop rivets in such obvious places I stop and study to make sure I'm not
> about to do something I'll regret. Is this like it seems or is there another
> way or modified approach to this step?
>
> Thanks Again---
>
> Jim Delveau 6A
The pop rivets work fine, even though most of us hate to use them.
You can always fill the holes if you want.
One trick in installing them is to drill #40 first, then dimple with
the 3/32" dimple die, then drill out #30, since the shaft is 1/8" but
the head is the same as a -3 rivet.
Randall Henderson
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Chandler <mauser(at)Claris.COM> |
Randall says:
> I've thought about making instrument labels this way, but the probelem
> is I plan on painting the panel black. Anyone have any good ideas on
> how to make labels easily and cheaply, but with white text?
If you want to get really fancy....
Print all your planned labels on the same clear sheet someone else mentioned.
Use the clear sheet as a mask for a photoreactive silk screen. (Kits at the
hobby store can be had for $40)
Paint your panel black.
Use a sheet of paper with a hole in it to mask only the label you want to
print, position the screen, and wipe white paint through it. It may take a
couple of sessions to avoid smearing.
Thoroughly clean the screen and you can re-use it for making T-shirts or
something. Maybe use it to letter the pilot's name on the side of the
Cockpit....
--
"Wait a minute, you expect us innocent children to climb up dangerous
scaffolding and paint naked people all over a church? We'll do it!!"
-- Yakko Warner, Animaniacs
"Yeah, I've got ADD, you wanna make something of.... oooh, cool. Look!"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Roy Thoma <Roy_Thoma(at)ccm.jf.intel.com> |
| Subject: | A Strategy Question (fwd) |
Text item:
Ted,
This was forwarded to me from a RV building coworker for comment. I've just
started building a Zenair Zodiac CH601HDS. Everything I know about RV's makes me
think they are great planes.
My dream plane is a 200+mph 4 seat cross country type machine along the lines of
a Lancair ES or Velocity. (And I had been dreaming of one of these for about 5
years.) I was very concerned about my ability to complete what I expect to be a
1500+ hour project. I started looking at quicker building planes for a first
project, thinking that I was more likely to finish and if I did not finish I
would not have as much $$$ invested. Assuming I do finish and still like
building, then I can build another project and have my Zenair to fly. My minimum
requirements were:
1) quick build time - no more than 500 hours claimed
2) two seats
3) 100mph cruise minimum
4) the plane/kit had to have some maturity and be proven
5) some useable baggage area
I looked seriously at the Merlin and the Zenair Zodiac. I also looked at the
RANs products and the GlaStar. The GlaStar looks great but I was not comfortable
with the level of information the factory could provide and the design/kit was
very new to the market. The kit also cost >$5K more than the Zodiac. [Based on
infromation posted by Sid Lloyd this was a good choice for me. See Sid's GlaStar
building information at http://rampages.onramp.net/~sidl/ .] The RANs products
did not seem like real airplanes to me for some reason. I saw both the Merlin
[at Arlington 95] and Zodiac [at Oshkosh 92] construction techniques and
believed that they were both planes I could complete.
I choose the Zenair because of the higher cruise speed (140 mph claimed with the
Rotax 912), the sheetmetal construction and the more nicely "finished" look in
the examples I have seen. Before committing to the kit purchase I went to a
Zenith "sheetmetal" workshop where I was able to participate in the construction
of a rudder, see the factory, meet the Zenith staff and get a demo flight. I
liked what I saw, learned more about the construction technique, liked the staff
and their customer commitment, and enjoyed flying the factory demonstrator.
I think a person building from kits could build an RV for about the same $ as
the Zodiac. There are too many builder choices to know for sure. The RV kit is
less expensive than the Zodiac kit. New engines for the RV will cost more $ than
the Zodiac. The builder chosen instruments/avionics could be similar cost for
each plane. The tool cost for the Zenith seems like it could be less. The big
difference is the time to build. You have to decide whether you want to build or
fly and what your time is worth. Building the RV you would probably get a
stronger plane with a wider range of performance.
If you build a Zenair and "settle for the Zenair, and never get around to
building the RV" that implies to me that the Zenair met your needs. That does
not sound like a big "drawback" to me.
Check the Zenair home page at:
http://users.aol.com/zenithair/
One of the question's that is frequently asked is what is the hardest part of
building? I think getting started is a very appropriate answer.
Regards,
Roy Thoma
my easy to type email rthoma(at)ichips.intel.com
John Morrissey
> From owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com Tue Dec 5 21:57:34 1995
> Errors-To: bounces(at)matronics.com
> Mime-Version: 1.0
> Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 16:07:15 +1000
> Message-Id: <0c533800(at)ccmgw.its.csiro.au>
> From: its.csiro.au!John.Morrissey(at)matronics.com (John Morrissey)
> Subject: Re: RV-List: A Strategy Question
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> Content-Description: cc:Mail note part
> Sender: owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Precedence: junk
> Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>
> Hi Ted,
>
> I would suggest that you try and pickup a reasonable second
> hand aircraft to play with or join a syndicate. I presently
> own a Jodel D11 homebuilt that I purchased a number of years
> ago, the problem is that I enjoy building the RV so much
> that I hardly have time to fly it. I now look at it as my
> future engine.
> As for building a Zenair, Why?? I would suggest that you
> spend your time assisting someone else in building their RV,
> and buy the tail kit. The nice thing about Vans is that it
> is very cheap to replace stuffed components, you will learn
> the vast majority of the metal working skills you need to
> complete the project just in building the tail plane. This
> approach has the advantage of relatively cheap investment
> and you will be exposed to all the various materials used in
> the Aircraft. Best investment I've seen so far is the
> Orndorf's Video's, nice step by step approach with lots of
> good tip's.
>
> Hope this helps!
>
> John Morrissey
> "RV4 from down under - Australia"
>
>
> ______________________________ Reply Separator ______________________________
___
> Subject: RV-List: A Strategy Question
> Author: rv-list(at)matronics.com at AARNet_Gateway
> Date: 12/5/95 7:51 PM
>
>
> Let me jump right in with the question: Should I consider building
> something less ambitious than an RV before I build an RV (perhaps a
> Zenair)?
>
> Why I'm Considering This
> ------------------------
>
> I haven't flown since leaving the air force a year ago, and frankly I
> don't want to wait five or more years before I fly again. I think I can
> have a Zenair in the air within a couple of years (including getting the
> money together, perhaps borrowing some). I know an RV will take me much
> longer--not just building but also getting the money for a decent engine,
> prop, and instruments.
>
> How I See it Working
> --------------------
>
> What I picture is using the Zenair project to develop my building skills
> and get my shop sorted out a bit, then starting on the RV project, sub-kit
> by sub-kit, while having the Zenair to fly. When I need money for the big
> ticket items on the RV (engine, prop, and instruments) I'll sell the
> Zenair.
>
> My Concerns About this Approach
> -------------------------------
>
> I guess the biggest drawback I can see is the temptation to settle for the
> Zenair, and never get around to building the RV. Has anyone gone this
> route before? Will owning the Zenair likely make it impossible for me to
> ever get the money together for the RV? In other words, will I find myself
> five years down the road with no RV and in no better shape to get one than
> if I'd done nothing?
>
> As a point of reference, I have never built an airplane before, but I
> do have several years of experience assembling formula race cars,
> including some fabrication (welding, machining, and fiberglass; very
> little sheet metal work). I can read plans, though I haven't in a few
> years.
>
> Tedd McHenry
> Still dreaming and scheming in Edmonton.
>
Text item: External Message Header
The following mail header is for administrative use
and may be ignored unless there are problems.
***IF THERE ARE PROBLEMS SAVE THESE HEADERS***.
From: "Earl Brabandt" <cwbraban(at)ichips.intel.com>
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 22:45:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: RV-List: A Strategy Question (fwd)
-0800
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | James Kelley <72466.1355(at)compuserve.com> |
When I had my cherokee I made lables for it using a laser printer and regular
paper. They looked excellent. I covered these lables with a mylar film, but
after a couple of years the paper layers seperated under the mylar. At work we
had a set of rubber lettering stamps and they had a rail that would line them
up. We would use them to add model & serial numbers to faceplates and used a
thinned sign paint to do it with. With some practice they looked like silk
screen. I don't have any idea where they were purchased the set and even with a
steady hand this approach would takes time.
Hope this helps.
James Kelley
Wings confirmed shipped.
72466.1355(at)compuserve.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gil(at)rassp.hac.com (Gil Alexander) |
>REGARDING Label Stuff
*** snip ***
>My idea will be more trouble but the results will be outstanding. Use your
>laser printer idea to make a MASK for a silk-screen. You create a negative
>image (with the laser printed transparency) and lay that on top of
>photo-sensitive silk-screen film. After exposure to uv light and a wash, you
>now have a silk-screen image that can be PAINTED any color on you panel. Of
>course with an existing panel, this is difficult but any new fab will be easy.
> UV sensitive materials are available at any art supply store. As well as the
>screen materials and frames. Sunlight or florescent lights are ok as a uv
>source but due to the length of exposure you sometimes do not get good, crisp
>edge definition. A uv light makes the process very quick and gives a sharper
>image.
>
>Elon
>ormsby1(at)llnl.gov
Elon .... sometime ago (mid 1970's actually) 3M made a UV sensitive
labeling material that worked in a similar manner to that of the
screen-making you describe above.
I actually used one on the Duster sailplane I built. The material
was soft aluminum, with a colored coating on one side. In this case, the
coating was exposed by UV light and fixed chemically. I just made a
vu-graph at work that said "TOW RELEASE" (a lot more useful than the
vu-graphs I usually make!), exposed some red material, used their developer
to fix it, and ended up with a nice self-adhesive label that was red with
1/2 inch silver letters. I used a photo enlarger as a light source. The
label is sturdy, and is still attached and in use to-day. It was quite
easy to do once I got the exposure right, and used a glass sheet to hold
the vu-graph tightly in contact with the label material.
I am not sure if this material is still available, but I could
check if anyone is interested. I would think it has now been replaced by
computer generated self-adhesive vinyl film lettering, the kind that comes
already made up in pre-spaced words to your specifications, and is used for
outdoor signs. This lettering seems to expensive for panel use - about 25
cents PER LETTER I think - which makes an instrument panel's worth very
expensive.
I am going to investigate if this can be handled by doing a whole
sheet of lettering (generated and printed by your computer) at once, and
paying a per square foot charge instead. A lot of panel lettering can fit
into a single square foot!
... keep on lettering ... Gil Alexander
gil(at)rassp.hac.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David A. Barnhart" <barnhart(at)crl.com> |
On Thu, 7 Dec 1995, Randall Henderson wrote:
> I've thought about making instrument labels this way, but the probelem
> is I plan on painting the panel black. Anyone have any good ideas on
> how to make labels easily and cheaply, but with white text?
Aircraft Spruce sells a sheet of rub-on instrument panel labels. Each
sheet contains labels for just about everything on the panel. I've used
them before to re-label portoins of an instrument panel where the
original labeling had been worn away. Spray your panel flat black, apply
the labels, then spray again with a couple of coats of flat clear.
Presto: a proffessional-looking job.
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
rv-6 sn 23744
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DerFlieger(at)aol.com |
>
>What I will probably do is have little lamicoid signs made up. A friend
>of mine has a plastic fabrication business with a computer router that
>can crank these things out automatically from an autocad-type file.
>(Lamicoid signs/labels are those industrial kind of black plastic signs
>with the recessed white lettering. You would find them in a factory
>identifying switches and things.) Anyway, this computer router can
>apparently do text so small that you need a magnifying glass to read it!
I used these on my RV6 and was very pleased. However, I chose a brushed
aluminum top laminate and now I'm sorry. After 4 years there is corrosion of
some type on my labels, probably from skin acids. Plain plastic should avoid
this problem.
Jim Stugart, Austin TX
DerFlieger(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | crazer(at)midwest.net (Chester Razer) |
Just though I'd pass this tip on to you tank builders, haven't seen this
item mentioned before. I experienced this situation today while
backriveting tank skin stiffners. DON'T wipe down the inside surface of
the tank skin one time then proseal and rivet all ten stiffners. The
stiffner locations (1-10) must be wiped INDIVIDUALLY with coleman fuel or
whatever degreasing agent you're using IMMEDIATELY PRIOR to installing that
individual stiffner.
REASON: I've never noticed this before but a rivet gun which is correctly
maintained (oiled) will spray an extremely fine mist of oil from its air
discharge port (should have realized this). Needless to say, this oil mist
settles on the inside tank skin and could corrupt the adhesion of proseal
to the aluminum and after backriveting 10 stiffners there is a lot of
residual oil mist on the skin.
SOLUTION: Don't degrease until IMMEDIATELY before installation of EACH
stiffner.
P.S. I've been using George and Becky's videos and they have made wing
construction much easier.
Chet Razer
crazer(at)midwest.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Build in Basement? |
>
>Several people have commented that the noise of building an RV is
>infrequent and not that bad. I find myself wondering what I'm doing
>differently -- it seems like I'm always reaching for the hearing
>protectors. It is true that riveting takes a relatively small
>percentage of the time, and you can certainly get a quieter compresser
>than my DeVilbiss, but there's also noise from:
>
>- Bandsaw
>- Grinder/scotch-brite wheel
>- Die Grinder with scotch-brite, cut-off wheel, or rotary file
>- Dremel tool w/ cut-off wheel or engraving bit
>- Drill press/fly cutter
>- Compressor
>- Jethro Tull
>
>I'm not saying the noise is a problem for me, although it probably
>would be if I hadn't taken the time to insulate my garage before
>I started. But don't fool yourself, if you have a noise-sensitivity
>issue (neighbors, etc.) you may have to deal with it.
>
>Randall Henderson
>RV-6
>
Jethro Tull? No wonder you need ear plugs. Try some Doors or Three Dog Night.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | crazer(at)midwest.net (Chester Razer) |
| Subject: | F'Glass Tip Pop Rivets |
Jim, I'm sure everyone building an RV has had the same concerns about the
CS4-4 pop rivets you mentioned in your message. If you feel you may need
to remove that tip regularly then install screws and platenuts. Otherwise
go ahead and install the CS4-4's. The CS4-4's are soft aluminum and very
easy to drill out without enlarging the #30 hole in which they were
installed. Jim Cone, another midwest builder, showed me that a pop rivet
properly installed and filled with West System Filler will become invisible
after finishing.
Chet Razer
crazer(at)midwest.net
________________________________________________________________________________
>From a "just retired 31 year State Farm Agent"
Ain't no AIRCRAFT INSURANCE provided
by your homeowners policy!
As Becki Says, "check your policy".
Understand Avemco can provide you
with the"partial kit" insurance coverage
most of us might need.
After all, ifn you got $10,000 plus invested,
why not spend a few sheckles and provide
some KIT COVERAGE.
Working today in a cold hangar on a "leaky
gas tank", reminds me of two gentlemen who
had finished their LONGEZ, and were making
sure fuel tanks didn't leak.....and now they
were draining their tanks, using CATALIC
heaters in their enclosed workshop.
BOOOOOOM!, they escaped with their lives,
but their project of course was consumed
by flames.
Marvin 63TX(at)aol.com retrofitting steps for
all us older folks.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John_Brown(at)BayNetworks.COM |
>From: John_Brown(at)BayNetworks.com (John Brown)
| Subject: | Message for Frank Justice. / John Hovan |
I have been having a problem getting Franks instructions from John's WEB
server. THe HS rear spar
instructions are getting "chopped" at this point
HS-603's. Insert a cleco in each hole, fastening the assembly to the jig.
2.Do not prime or rivet these parts yet.
Prepare the Hinge Brackets| From: | ChrisL3064(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Gyro Questions (was IFR Gyros) |
Thanks for the info! I have taken into consideration the tilt of the
instrument panel. IFR rebuilt the horizon with an eight degree tilt----it
cured the problem of being able to readjust the horizontal line but has
nothing to do with whether the gyro works properly or not. I have talked with
both Sigmatek and RCAllen---they are more than happy to supply any tilt you
need---An eight degree tilt I think would work for the RV6 panel--Sigmatek
has these in stock--#5000M-5-lighted (their #1U149-022-2) You can order thru
anyone that handles Sigmatek--Chief Aircraft, etc. Will continue the battle!
ChrisL3064(at)a0l.com
________________________________________________________________________________
>I tried an idea to create labels for breakers etc and it worked great.
>I went to office max and bought a box of transparency film for laser
>printers (not cheap $20). I then created all the labels I needed and
>more and printed. They came out really nice (I printed several copies
>on paper first). Cut them out, used white glue (wood glue, it dries
>clear) and now I have good looking labels, replaceable, simple.
>Dan Boudro
>RV-4 N9167Z
>albuquerque
To add to this...
You can buy clear labels with sticky backs from Avery (the label people, not
the tool guy) at most office supply stores. They, too, are a little high, but
they work great. They're made for laser printers and come in several sizes.
I have only made black ones, but I expect you could make some really neat
ones with a color printer. You can hardly tell it's a label once it's on the
plane.
Dana Breda
Flying RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | boudro <pla_ems(at)nmia.com> |
| Subject: | Re: elevator/stab tips |
Since I use bondo to feather the joint between AL and fibergalss I've
never worried about it, pops work just fine for me. The finished product
is an invisible seam under the paint.
Dan Boudro
RV-4 N9167Z
On Thu, 7 Dec 1995 aol.com!JDelveau(at)matronics.com wrote:
> I am about to attach the fiberglass tips to the elevators and stab and the
> plans call for 1/8 inch counter sunk pop rivets at 2" spacing. Every time I
> see pop rivets in such obvious places I stop and study to make sure I'm not
> about to do something I'll regret. Is this like it seems or is there another
> way or modified approach to this step?
>
> Thanks Again---
>
> Jim Delveau 6A
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Ruble <cruble(at)cisco.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Tank Tip |
>
> REASON: I've never noticed this before but a rivet gun which is correctly
> maintained (oiled) will spray an extremely fine mist of oil from its air
> discharge port >
> Chet Razer
> crazer(at)midwest.net
>
The solution that I used for this problem was to wrap a rag around
exhaust port on the gun. Quick and easy. Some guns have a thredded port
that a hose could be attached to.
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Build in Basement? |
I've always found that a little Pink Floyd on a good set of speakers just
kind of sets the tone to build by.
Of course, you can always speed up the job by bucking to the rythm of disco,
but then you'd be brain dead when you were finished and you wouldn't get to
enjoy your plane.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | 14 years of RV-Ator book |
Thank you to all those who ordered quickly. We sold out our last 25 copies
in less than one day (geez).
For those who still want a copy, you have 3 choices:
Vans Aircraft (503) 647-5117, Avery Tools (817) 439-8400, and Aircraft Spruce
(800) 824-1930 (part number 13-25450) are wholesale customers and should
still have some left. You can order a book from them, but they will not be
offering the sale price. The regular price is $25.95.
We will not be printing any more copies unless it is for a wholesale order
from one of those 3 companies.
However, In early March we will make available the '94 - '95 update pages
which will insert in your 14 Year books, and also a completely new book
called 16 Years of the RV-Ator. We will let you know on the internet and in
various other ways when that actually becomes availablle.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JerryFlyRV(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Q: Navaid servo location |
Bob Skinner wrote
*****stuff deleted****
>I intend to look into installing the next
>one in the wing of the 6-A that I'm building now. Because of the great for
>and aft movement of the stick and the resulting action of the servo push
>rod, location of the servo is a rather exacting undertaking. I still had
>some binding of the linkages at the extreme end of travel and the small rod
>ends on the servo bottomed out.
Bob
Did you attach the linkage rod to the bottom of the passenger stick or to the
bottom of the pilot stick? I think the drawing shows it to the passenger
side. I ran the linkage to the pilot side which allowed more forward and aft
movement without binding and also I have not experienced any control pitch
movement due to the servo being in the fuselage in fact it works great.
Jerry Springer Rv-6 N906GS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Q: Navaid servo location |
>
>Bob Skinner wrote
>
>*****stuff deleted****
>
>>I intend to look into installing the next
>>one in the wing of the 6-A that I'm building now. Because of the great for
>>and aft movement of the stick and the resulting action of the servo push
>>rod, location of the servo is a rather exacting undertaking. I still had
>>some binding of the linkages at the extreme end of travel and the small rod
>>ends on the servo bottomed out.
>
>Bob
>Did you attach the linkage rod to the bottom of the passenger stick or to the
>bottom of the pilot stick? I think the drawing shows it to the passenger
>side. I ran the linkage to the pilot side which allowed more forward and aft
>movement without binding and also I have not experienced any control pitch
>movement due to the servo being in the fuselage in fact it works great.
>
>Jerry Springer Rv-6 N906GS
>
Jerry, I attached the servo arm to the co-pilot stick. I never even gave
it a thought to going over to the pilots' side. You evidently didn't have
any interference with the elevator push rod. Did the servo rod go above the
push rod? I, too, have not experienced any pitch movement with my
installation. What do you think of the wing mount location for the servo.
It seems checking the system might be a little easier. The way I am set up
now I have to: remove two AN3 bolts on the fuel selector valve and 4 #8
screws holding the valve mounting plate which overlaps the removable part of
the seat pan area on the co-pilots side and then remove a bunch of #8 screws
in the seat area. To take the unit out, I have to take out a removable
portion of one rib. Just seems that maybe it would be easier to mount in
the wing with an inspection plate on the bottom.
Actually, I haven't decided for sure to put one in the 6-A. Someone
told me that the price went up. I might just go with Van's simple, cheap
aileron trim. In rough air I can hand fly the plane better than the Navaid,
but I may not have it adjusted properly yet. (Haven't touch it since
initial installation.) I generaly use it in wing leveler mode. It holds a
better track that way than on the loran. Maybe it would track a GPS better.
I guess the main selling point to me was the safetly aspect of maybe getting
me out of trouble in case I accidently fly into IFR conditions. It's nice
to keep the wings level when folding maps or changing glasses and in
anything less than smooth air would do a better job than Van's spring loaded
system.
I'd appreciate learning your thoughts on the value of the Navaid and
about the wing mounting location. (And I'm sure other readers would too.)
Thanks, Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BPattonsoa(at)aol.com |
When I made my limitations label for my HP-18, I developed what I wanted on
the computer. Then printed the result, fill size, in the best printer
quality available. The lable was about 1.5" X 5", with a whole bunch of
numbers and letters.
The local trophy shop sent the paper off and made a print on thin aluminum.
I think the process was called lithography. This does not rub off. The
price was very low, $15 ?) and as I recall, the cost would have been the same
for any size up to about a half a sheet. The aluminum was very soft and
thin, cut easily with a sharp knife. I mounted the lable with a double sided
carpet tape.
You can make up a whole bunch of individual labels, with drawn borders, marks
for screws, holes for switchs, breakers, etc. and put them on a single sheet.
Has anyone else tried this?
Bruce Patton
RV-6a Fues just out of the jig (jig, all steel one piece, perfect, still for
sale at $350)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JPallist(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Elevator Skin Slots Rod End Bearings |
Here's a slick way of reducing both the size and the chances of cracks
developing at the 90-degree corners of the cutouts- instead of right-angle
cutouts, try WIDE-radius corners... cut wide enough they produce a pleasing
"circular" appearance to the cutout, yet, still provide adequate access. I
saw these on Lee McDaniel's RV4... and used the same approach on my RV6
rudder cutouts...
Cheers, John Pallister (the MagKit* source).
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rbibb(at)fore.com (Richard Bibb) |
| Subject: | Re: Build in Basement? |
I built a good part of my RV-4 in my basement and it worked great. IT was
not even a walk out type. For the wings I did most of the drilling and
fitting and then moved it to my garage for final riveting. Ditto with
fuselage. If you have a walk out basement you can build the whole thing in
there. You will need to move it outside for fitting of wings, etc. but you
can time that for the spring/summer.
As for riviting - the actual time riveting is a very small part of the
construction process - much more time spent getting ready to rivet in
drilling, deburing, dimpling, etc. You can ration the noisy part so that
those who object can go to the mall or something... :)
Go for it. If I ever build another one I'll try to do it in the nice
heated confines of a basement as well.
RB
>Is building the kit in my basement realistic?
>
>Situation
>---------
>
>I have an unfinished basement that is approximately 23'x 30'. It
>has some interior walls that could be removed, and about 1/4 to
>1/3 of it is occupied by stairs, furnace, and laundry room that
>can't. I think I could get pieces the size of RV wings and
>fuselage out via the stairs, probably by temporarily removing
>part of the stairs and enlarging the outside door opening (the
November 26, 1995 - December 09, 1995
RV-Archive.digest.vol-av