RV-Archive.digest.vol-ax
December 25, 1995 - January 09, 1996
Well once again I didn't know I had a problem till I read a message on this
list. The case of the broken rudder peddle, leaves me with a little concern.
Since I bought the airplane second hand I would not be on the normal mailing
list for AD's. Could someone please tell me what the Ad has to say. Leave me a
message here or contact me directly at jperri(at)intersev.com
Thanks
John Perri CFII RV-6 350+ hrs N345JE
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jperri(at)interserv.com |
Should have read Rudder Pedal ..went out before I could proof read.
JMP
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ammeterj(at)ammeterj.seanet.com (John Ammeter) |
>Well once again I didn't know I had a problem till I read a message on this
>list. The case of the broken rudder peddle, leaves me with a little concern.
>Since I bought the airplane second hand I would not be on the normal mailing
>list for AD's. Could someone please tell me what the Ad has to say. Leave me a
>message here or contact me directly at jperri(at)intersev.com
>
>Thanks
>
>John Perri CFII RV-6 350+ hrs N345JE
>
The Rudder pedal AD was about the angled strap/plate that was welded to the
cross-over tube at the bottom and had the rudder cable fastened to it at the
top. The problem was that the weld was not good enuf or strong enuf. The
'cure' is to weld a gusset to the front and back of the strap where it is
welded to the tube. The gusset only needs to be about 1/2" long along the
tube and 1" long on the strap. You can make these gussets out of 0.032" 4130.
While you're doing this you might also want to use some of that 4130 to make
a strap that will help strengthen the rudder vertical tube to cross-over
tube weld. Wrap this strap from the back side of the vertical tube around
the cross-over tube to the front side of the vertical tube. I had mine
break at the weld so decided to strengthen it. Since you're going to have
to remove the rudder controls you might as well go ahead and touch up this
'weak' point as well.
If you have the new rudder pedals that are suspended from above all bets are
off. I don't know of any problems with them.
John Ammeter
ammeterj(at)ammeterj.seanet.com
Seattle WA, USA
RV-6 N16JA
Flying 5 years
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Carbs/injectors/lights |
>
>>just leaving the lights on all of the time? Also, in the last copy of the
>>Rocky Mountain Rvator they had an article on a 12 volt halogen 50 watt bulb
>>that has a life of 5,000 hours. It's 2" in dia. and draws 3 amps and costs
>>$ 9.95. If anyone is interested, I'll type in the article as written. The
>>article originated from th "Van's Airforce, Tri-State Wing"
>
>I'd definately be interested, if it's not too much hassle. I've heard the
>Rky Mtn RVator is a very fine newsletter - do you have an address and
>subscription info?
>Thanks - Ed Bundy
Ed: Here goes. From the Rocky Mountain RVator who obtained the article from
th Van's Air Force, Tri-State Wing. "While having cocktails at Van's dinner
at Oshkosh, I met a Canadian builder who had stumbled across what may be the
neatest little light you ever saw. It is a GE 50 watt, 12 volt EXN Halogen
Bulb with a built in flood reflector and glass cover that is designed for a
track lighting system. It is 2" in diameter and 1 1/4" deep. The package
says that the bulb is good for 5000 hours! It has two pins in the back of
the bulb. I hooked one up to my battery charger, and it draws 3 amps and
provides a light so broght that if you look at it you will have a big blind
spot for several minutes! If you have any doubts about whether this bulb
will stand up to the rigors of flight, let me relate to yu what our Maple
Leaf friend did to test the light. First, he let it cold soak over night at
-5 degrees and then lit it up with a battery charger. Then he mounted it on
a compressor that had a lot of vibration and let the light burn for several
days. Next, he mounted them on his car grill and used them like headlights.
It turned out that they were much brighter than the ar's headlights on high
beam! Convinced, he decided that they would work as landing lights and will
make fabricating a mounting bracket easy, and the lens is completely sealed,
including a front lens cover. They are so small that a very tiny hole in
the wing leading edge or wing tip can be used for a landing light. Wal Mart
had the GE bulb for $ 9.95 and an equivalent generic bulb for $ 3.95,
altough the generic bulb doesn't say anything about expected service life.
Since I already installed on of Duckwork's landing lights in my wing, I plan
to install one in the cowl to burn all the time as a recognition light. By
the way, if you ahve the Cuckworks landing light and want to put a 100 watt
bulb in to get more light, Wal Mart wells a GE Halogen H3-100 that is an
exact match for the lower wattage bulb Don provides. It is much cheaper,
too." Ther you go--- Bob Skinner
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dougweil(at)mail.pressenter.com (Doug Weiler) |
| Subject: | Re: Wing jig spar height recommendations |
>I am completing up my RV6A tail section and have received my wing kit. For
>you guys that have built or are building your wings, how high should I put
>the spar above the ground to get the best overall working height (in the
>jig). I figured I would ask since I will have to live with it for many many
>months. I understand of course that you would want it high enough to fit the
>flaps and ailerons on, but how much higher. I am 6 feet 1 inch tall. Its
>hard to tell from the Orndoff video how high the spar is above the ground.
>Thanks to all for your input and Happy Holidays ! Scott in Chicago
>rvgasj(at)mcs.com
>
>
>
Scott:
My spars are mounted 49" from the floor and thus far this seems to have
worked just fine.
Doug
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
= Doug Weiler, pres. MN Wing Van's AirForce, RV-4 wings in progress
= 347 Krattley Lane
= Hudson, WI 54016
= 715-386-1239
= email: dougweil(at)mail.pressenter.com
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | GDQD86A(at)prodigy.com ( CECIL T HATFIELD) |
| Subject: | Fuel Dump for RV6 Tanks |
I'm near on to starting on the fuel tanks on my RVA and thought I
would share a thought thats been
mulling over in my mind for a couple years now.
If I'm over an area where there is no 'easy' landing when the engine
decides to go nite-nite. One the
largest thoughts at that time has to be "Why is all this fuel next to
me going down with me" One of the
next thoughts has to be "Why the heck didn't I figure out a way to
get rid of it when I was sitting at
home thinking about it last year"
Seems like I shouldn't be the only person to ever think there should
be a very quick way to dump fuel
overboard in an emergency. (for small planes I mean).
Has any of our bright guys or gals out there ever read about
solutions to this. I would be interested in
any comments or ideas.
Cecil Hatfield in Thousand Oaks California
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | OrndorffG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Anual Inspections |
Anual saftey inspection are covered in FAR part 43 Appendix D and should be
covered
in your operation and limition papers you recieve when you get your plane
inspected.
....George Orndorff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | OrndorffG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Wing jig spar height recommendations |
Scott .
I checked the height my wing jig and it is 52 inch from the floor to the top
of the cross
arm where the wing spar rest any more question please write or call
301-293-1505
...George & Becki Orndorff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JDAviator(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Dump for RV6 Tanks |
>
>I'm near on to starting on the fuel tanks on my RVA and thought I
>would share a thought thats been
>mulling over in my mind for a couple years now.
>
>If I'm over an area where there is no 'easy' landing when the engine
>decides to go nite-nite. One the
>largest thoughts at that time has to be "Why is all this fuel next to
>me going down with me" One of the
>next thoughts has to be "Why the heck didn't I figure out a way to
>get rid of it when I was sitting at
>home thinking about it last year"
>
>Seems like I shouldn't be the only person to ever think there should
>be a very quick way to dump fuel
>overboard in an emergency. (for small planes I mean).
>
>
Cecil:
I've never heard of anyone trying to dump avgas (or wanting to, for that
matter). Seems to me that regardless of the inflight difficulty, with FEW
exceptions, it would be preferable to keep the volatile avgas contained.
What if, when you attempt to dump, static electricity ignites the fuel
leaving the aircraft? What if all the fuel you want to leave the aircraft
has not exhausted itself prior to landing and/or impact? In either scenario,
not good.
Fuel dumping certification criteria for turbine powered aircraft is quite
detailed, and JET-A is not as volitile as avgas. IMO, I'd keep the avgas
onboard.
Jerry Allison
JDAviator(at)aol.com
Waiting for RV-8
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mkerzie(at)qnet.com (Mark G. Kerzie) |
| Subject: | Fwd Fuselage Belly Skin ?s |
Forward bottom skin on the RV-6 ......
Spent the better part of the day today installing the F-672 forward bottom
skin. A few months back I remember reading about some of the rivets working
loose in this area (especially on the 180hp airplanes). I've outlined our
modifications below and am asking the group if what we did is enough to keep
us from experiencing these same problems (we're going with 160hp). Still
time to make changes, so will take any and all inputs from you.
1. Used 1/8" rivets along firewall stiffener with 1" spacing (plans call
for 3/32" with 1.25 spacing).
2. Used 1" spacing on floor stiffeners, 1st two rivets 1/8", remaining
3/32" as per Frank Justice (plans call for 3/32 with 1.25" spacing). We
stayed with 3/32" rivets; we were paranoid of drilling out too much metal
with the 1/8" rivets at 1" spacing (although we did do that on the firewall
stiffener).
There's one more mod we've thought about making, but need some advice before
pressing on. The center bottom skins (F-676/677) extend far enough forward
(overlapping the F-672 forward bottom skin) that a THIRD row of rivets could
be placed directly underneath the spar. Here's the problem ... best we can
measure, it looks like we'll ONLY have between 1/8" and 3/16" clearance
between the skins and where the spar will rest. An eighth of an inch is
plenty of room for the shop head on a 3/32" rivet, but what kind of problems
will we introduce when it comes time to insert the spar into the fuselage?
Is there any benefit to adding this third row of rivets, or should we just
hack off the center bottom skins at the trailing edge of the spar as per the
plans?
Questions for things we still have to do on the forward bottom skin...
1. Do we dimple or countersink the F/604 bulkhead flange when installing
the skins? If you say dimple, can I do that with a hand squeezer?
2. Frank Justice suggests leaving the forward bottom skin off until the
instruments have been installed. We've been told that skin should be riveted
in place to give the forward fuselage some rigidity after removal from the
jig. Our "informant" claims that there is more than enough access from
above if the top skin is left off until the instruments are in place.
Anybody with experience using either of the above methods?
3. Where on the firewall should proseal/RTV be used when riveting the skins
to the firewall ... all the way around, just the bottom/corners?
Thanks for all your help in advance.
Mark G. Kerzie - RV-6
mkerzie(at)qnet.com
Ready to "shape" the forward side skins
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "R. Werner" <russ(at)maui.net> |
------ =_NextPart_000_01BAD3FA.145AF520
For those of you using Vari-Prime, what prep are you using prior to =
shooting it. Are the self etching properties adequate following a good =
cleaning or does it need something like Alumiprep also. =20
Same question for those using the Sherwin Williams primer. I can't get =
it locally, but it sure seems to be liked by those who use it. =20
Working my tail off on my tail (in shorts and a tee shirt)
Russ Werner, RV4
Maui
russ(at)maui.net
From: OrndorffG(at)aol.com
Date: Wed, 27 Dec 1995 07:47:31 -0500
Subject: Re: RV-List: Primers
Russ,
Becki and I allways user veri prime with just coleman lantern fuel as a
degreaser.
coleman's is less harsh on you and is the recommended degreaser for proseal
when
you get to the fuel tanks.when veri prime get a little old after being mixed
it's no
good ., so us fresh mixed paint and it will do a good job for you.
........George & Becki Orndorff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dougweil(at)mail.pressenter.com (Doug Weiler) |
| Subject: | Re: mail failed, returning to sender |
>>Well once again I didn't know I had a problem till I read a message on this
>>list. The case of the broken rudder peddle, leaves me with a little concern.
>>Since I bought the airplane second hand I would not be on the normal mailing
>>list for AD's. Could someone please tell me what the Ad has to say. Leave
me a
>>message here or contact me directly at jperri(at)intersev.com
>>
>>Thanks
>>
>>John Perri CFII RV-6 350+ hrs N345JE
>
>John:
>
>Instead of me relaying all the info second hand, you might contact Tom Berge
>directly. He can be reached at 612-535-2310 (evenings). You could try his
>E-mail at jfac89b(at)prodigy.com but Tom is just getting into the E-mail thing
>and I'm not sure if he is all up to speed on this just yet. He's very
>knowledgeable on the RV-6 and would be glad to help to out.
>
>Doug
>
>-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>= Doug Weiler, pres. MN Wing Van's AirForce, RV-4 wings in progress
>= 347 Krattley Lane
>= Hudson, WI 54016
>= 715-386-1239
>= email: dougweil(at)mail.pressenter.com
>-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>
>
>
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
= Doug Weiler, pres. MN Wing Van's AirForce, RV-4 wings in progress
= 347 Krattley Lane
= Hudson, WI 54016
= 715-386-1239
= email: dougweil(at)mail.pressenter.com
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Carbs/injectors/lights |
> It is a GE 50 watt, 12 volt EXN Halogen
>Bulb with a built in flood reflector and glass cover that is designed for a
>track lighting system. It is 2" in diameter and 1 1/4" deep. The package
>says that the bulb is good for 5000 hours!
Whew! It sounds like he went through quite a test procedure. Thanks for
posting the info Bob, I appreciate it.
- Ed Bundy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
>For those of you using Vari-Prime, what prep are you using prior to shooting
>it. Are the self etching properties adequate following a good cleaning or
>does it need something like Alumiprep also.
>Same question for those using the Sherwin Williams primer. I can't get it
>locally, but it sure seems to be liked by those who use it.
>Working my tail off on my tail (in shorts and a tee shirt)
>Russ Werner, RV4
>Maui
Well Russ, I envy your building conditions. It's been 22 degrees here in
Idaho, (that's the high mind you) and most of my building is going on in a
heated shop.
As for priming, I'm using SW, and I just wipe it down with whatever's handy
before I shoot it. Acetone, lantern fluid, etc. I've forgotten to clean a
couple parts before I primered them and it didn't seem to make any difference
with this stuff.
P.S. could you send me about 30 of your *xtra* degrees? :)
-- Ed Bundy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "R. Werner" <russ(at)maui.net> |
------ =_NextPart_000_01BAD436.9AA902C0
Thanks all for the quick response regarding the Primers. From what I've =
heard, the SW is more durable, but I'm using Vari-Prime on the tail =
since it is available locally (read: now). I'll get some SW shipped in =
to try before I get too far along. Both sound like they are nice and =
easy in regards to prep.
As for the weather, I'll not rub it in again! But remember, if you want =
to work on an RV in warm weather, just plan your next "vacation" here on =
Maui!
Aloha,
Russ Werner, RV4 HS
russ(at)maui.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MGGX07C(at)prodigy.com ( SCOTT GESELE) |
| Subject: | Nav Light Instal. |
I am about to install the wingtip nav lights in my -6A. Is there any
reg that requires them to be installed vertically? This would
require the fabrication of an additional fairing on the wingtip which
adds weight and creates drag. Can they be simply bolted to the
fairing at a slight angle?
Has anyone used Van's wingtip light plexiglass fairing?
Thank you in advance.
-Scott
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JamesCone(at)aol.com |
Someone from Australia recently asked about newsletters. I posted a reply to
the list but it must have disappeared in to cyberspace because it never was
received on the list. I publish a newsletter called Van's Air Force,
Tri-State Wing. It is not about a lot of local news. It is primarily
focused on tips, hints, ideas and confessions of goof-ups. It should help
you build your RV better and easier while avoiding the mistakes that others
have made. It is published quarterly. I exchange newsletters with several
others and we share the good stuff so that the word gets out to a wider
audience. Tony Bengelis told me that it was the best newsletter that he gets
and several others have made similar comments. It is available for a $5.00
donation for U.S. subscribers. Foreign subscribers need to add first class
postage for delivery to their country. I have a limited supply of 1995
issues for those who would like back issues.
Jim Cone, Editor
Van's Air Force, Tri-State Wing
422 Savannah Ridge Drive
St. Charles, MO 63303-2921
(314) 928-8703 FAX (314) 447-8803
E-Mail jamescone(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Nav Light Instal. |
Check the regs on nav lt installation, for viewing degrees required. Putting
them on the wingtip without a bump doesn't satisfy the feds, tho they might
not catch it at inspection.
I've installed several sets of nav lts, all but one under the Van's lenses.
The remaining set was under the lenses sold by Chief Aircraft. IMHO, the
Chief set is a better looking installation. Also, there is room for a strobe
piggyback unit under these lenses. Unfortunately, these are currently out of
production.
You'll still have to make a bracket to set the lt. so it's visible from the
correct angles if you use the Van's lens.
Rgds,
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Taylor <gmt(at)perth.DIALix.oz.au> |
On Wed, 27 Dec 1995 aol.com!JamesCone(at)matronics.com wrote:
> Someone from Australia recently asked about newsletters. I posted a reply to
> the list but it must have disappeared in to cyberspace ....
>
> Jim Cone, Editor
> Van's Air Force, Tri-State Wing
> 422 Savannah Ridge Drive
> St. Charles, MO 63303-2921
> (314) 928-8703 FAX (314) 447-8803
> E-Mail jamescone(at)aol.com
>
THanks Jim. It was me who asked, and I'll post off some $ tomorrow for
the back issues and a subscription. Western Australia has a huge
following in RVs. We have 1/17 of the Australian population, but 1/4 of
the projects. Any newsletters we get here will be well read.
THanks,
Graham Taylor, 119 Darley Circle, Bullcreek, WA 6149, AUSTRALIA
gmt(at)perth.DIALix.oz.au
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Taylor <gmt(at)perth.DIALix.oz.au> |
| Subject: | Re: Nav Light Instal. |
On Wed, 27 Dec 1995, SCOTT GESELE wrote:
> I am about to install the wingtip nav lights in my -6A. Is there any
> reg that requires them to be installed vertically? This would
If you mount them flush to the wingtips you may not get them sighted from
above, they could be blanked by the edge of the tip. Most folk here make
a mounting pad from hard foam, so the light is mounted vertically, an
dbeyond the edge of the wingtip.
Others mount a strobe in a Vans plexiglass tip, but this necessitates a
3rd strobe on the tail for the FAA required coverage
Hope this helps,
Graham Taylor RV-6A nearly finished!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rust47rg(at)one.net |
| Subject: | Re: Nav Light Instal. |
>I am about to install the wingtip nav lights in my -6A. Is there any
>reg that requires them to be installed vertically? This would
>require the fabrication of an additional fairing on the wingtip which
>adds weight and creates drag. Can they be simply bolted to the
>fairing at a slight angle?
>Has anyone used Van's wingtip light plexiglass fairing?
>
>Thank you in advance.
>
>-Scott
Scott:
FAR 91.33 (c)(3) is the vfr night rule.
Word to the wise... You will find people have a hard time seeing these little
birds (both tower and other aircraft) Do everything you can to make yourself
visable.
Regards:
Rusty Gossard
N47RG RV-4 Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Taylor <gmt(at)perth.DIALix.oz.au> |
| Subject: | Quick Build Kits on the way |
Taken from Western Flyer, December 1995. Newsletter of West Australian
Division, Sport Aircraft Association of Australia,. Editor Graham Taylor,
E-mail: gmt(at)perth.DIALix.oz.au .
Two months ago it was reported in this column (in Western Flyer) that
Kevin Wintergreen had been talking to Van about the ease of construction
with the prepunched wing skins. Van's response was "You haven't seen
anything yet". It can now be revealed just what he meant by that
enigmatic remark. As luck would have it Tom Krieg's (Perth T18
builder/flyer) brother was in Kuala Lumpur when the following announcement
appeared in the New Straits Times on Saturday 21 October 1995.
US AIRCRAFT KITS TO BE ASSEMBLED HERE.
By Sabry Sharif and Adrian David.
KUALA LUMPUR Fri. Phileo Aviation (Malaysia) Sdn Bhd will assemble
airframe parts of the RV6A leisure and recreational aeroplane on behalf of
its United States based manufacturer, Van's Aircraft Inc, a company
official said today. "Under a buy-back agreement, the quick-build kits
will be re-exported to the US principal" said Phileo Aviation Director
Tong Kooi Ong.
Although the recently set up company was confident of a
market for the aircraft here, its obligation for the next two years was
"to ensure a steady supply of the kits to Van's Aircraft in Portland,
Oregon" he said. He added Phileo Aviation understood the manpower
constraints in aircraft manufacturing and assembly particularly in
Malaysia. "However, we do not anticipate such problems with the RV6A parts
and components assembly at a rented factory near the Glenmarie-Hicom
Industrial Park (in Subang)", said Tong.
In a media briefing at Shangri-La Hotel here, Tong, who is also the man
behind Phileo Allied Berhad, the financial services and property group,
said the assembly plant would concentrate on putting together the
fuselage, wings and tail. "These parts account for 49 percent of the
aircraft. The engine, avionics and other parts of the aircraft will be
manufactured and assembled in the US together with our kits", he said.
Phileo Aviation will have an initial staff of 35 to assemble parts for
five aircraft a month, before gradually increasing capacity to 20 a month
by the first year and 40 by end of 1996, with staff strength then
increasing to 100. Tong hoped to start assembly of the kits by early next
year.
"In the US, the kits will be marketed to Do It Yourself enthusiasts
who will complete the remaining 51 percent assembly process, involving
such fittings as the engine, propeller, undercarriage and avionics". He
added there was a demand for the quick-build kits as the assembly time now
averaging between 2,000 and 3,000 man- hours would be reduced to about
800.
The kit alone will cost US$11,000 while the whole builtup aircraft
can cost anything from US$20,000. The 49-51 percent breakdown is a
mandatory requirement under the Federal Aviation Administration
regulations for experimental aircraft. Being classified as a kit-plane,
the manufacturer is allowed to build up to 49 percent of the aircraft
only.
Tong said the RV series had proven to be popular with flying
enthusiasts in the US, Europe and Australia, where special packages
involving pilot training, aircraft maintenance and parking facilities are
included for the aircraft buyer.
Under the second phase targeted in mid
1996, Tong said they would expand into marketing the quick-build kits and
completely builtup (CBU) units locally. "Phileo Aviation has the exclusive
marketing rights for the CBU in Malaysia and is negotiating with Van's
Aircraft for similar rights in other Asian markets", he said. Also present
were Phileo Aviation directors Rudy Koh Eng Wah, who is also Phileo Allied
Berhad Executive Director, Ahmad Abdullah, General Manager, Alan K.S. Foo
and Assistant General Manager Dr Lim Kong Loong.
Asked for his rationale for getting involved in an industry with a long
repayment period on investments, Tong said it would help the nation
further develop its aerospace industry and establish Malaysia as a
regional base for the manufacture and marketing of small aircraft. He
also said the company was impressed with the technical performance and
affordability of the RV6A.
"It is safe, cheap, and easy to maintain, which are important if you want
to sell such aircraft overseas and here", he added. More than 5,000 RVs,
including some 500 RV6As have been sold in the US alone. The first model
of the aircraft, the RV1, designed by former US Air Force officer Richard
Van Grunsven, flew in 1965.
Van Grunsven, who went on to develop the RV2, RV3, RV4 and RV6 models, is
currently developing the RV8. Tong said the RV6A, the top end of the RV
range, has enough power and manoeuvrability to do basic aerobatics. The
aircraft can also take off from, and land on, less developed or rugged
airstrips, and has short field capability.
The RV6A is powered by a single 160 hp Lycoming O-320 engine, has a gross
weight of 1,650 lb (about 750 kg), cruises at 299km per hour and has a
range of 1,216 km. Phileo Aviation will next month bring two RV6As for
aerial and static demonstrations at the Langkawi International Maritime
and Aerospace (LIMA) '95 exhibition on Dec 5 -10.
END OF NEWSPAPER ARTICLE.
Bill Benedict from Vans was in Perth just before Christmas, and he was
surprised we knew about the Malaysian deal. I thought others would be too.
Graham Taylor RV-6A 5 months from flying (Bet you've heard that before!!)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Terence Gannon" <Terence_Gannon(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Quick Build Kits (Chatter) |
'Listers -- I read with great interest the article that Graham Taylor sent
along regarding the quick build kits that will be put together in
Malaysia...does anybody have any thoughts about the potential impact (good or
bad?) on those of us who are heading down the road of a more conventional kit
project?
I think that it's marvellous that Van's continues to evolve their product and
company, but would still be interested in hearing others thoughts. Regards...
Terry in Calgary
"Starting on Empennage (REALLY!)"
S/N 24414
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Carolynn E Hiatt <hiatt001(at)gold.tc.umn.edu> |
With respect to SW wash primer, I think it's great!!! Just clean the
metal with thinner (laquer), (after you scuff it lightly with
scotchbrite). It dries fast and is hard as nails.
Fred, hiatt001(at)gold.tc.umn.edu
On Wed, 27 Dec 1995, R. Werner wrote:
> For those of you using Vari-Prime, what prep are you using prior to =
> shooting it. Are the self etching properties adequate following a good =
> cleaning or does it need something like Alumiprep also. =20
>
> Same question for those using the Sherwin Williams primer. I can't get =
> it locally, but it sure seems to be liked by those who use it. =20
>
> Working my tail off on my tail (in shorts and a tee shirt)
>
> Russ Werner, RV4
> Maui
> russ(at)maui.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Johnson <rvgasj(at)popmail.mcs.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing jig spar height recommendations |
>Scott .
> I checked the height my wing jig and it is 52 inch from the floor to the top
>of the cross
>arm where the wing spar rest any more question please write or call
>301-293-1505
>...George & Becki Orndorff
>
Thanks George & Becki for the reply. We have all your video's and watch them
constantly, they are excellent and we want to thank you for producing them.
You guys have saved us many hours. Lunch or dinner is on us if you have a
spare moment at Oshkosh next year. Scott & Mary Johnson, Chicago
rvgasj(at)mcs.com P.S. If you need a place to overnight in Chicago, feel
free to give us a call. 708-980-3772
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Johnson <rvgasj(at)popmail.mcs.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing jig spar height recommendations |
Thanks Doug for the input on the spar height. It really is incredible how
many people are building RV's in the midwest. Hopefully in a few years we
can all meet at a flyin in our RV's. Scott Johnson rvgasj(at)mcs.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JZidek7003(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Fwd: Want a ride in an RV-4 |
---------------------
Subj: Want a ride in an RV-4
Date: 95-12-22 01:37:49 EST
From: JZidek7003
High everyone on the list, I read every entry before going to bed and I think
it is great! I started building an RV-4 in Sept-95. I have completed the
tail feathers and have both main wings in the jigs with the leading edge and
fuel tanks done. I now have a partner in this progect which has made the
building go so much faster. Both of us live in the Kansas City area and
would give our first born son for a ride in an RV-4. So far we have only
been able to locate 1 flying RV-4 in the KC area and he does not give rides
as he told my partner Walt. If anyone out there knows someone with an RV-4
within a 200 miles of Kansas City and will give us a ride PLEASE let use
know. We would be able to be very flexable as to the time and place to meet
you. We both fly rentals and can fly to meet you at your plane. Once again
thanks for the rv-list and everyone have a great CHRISTMAS.
John Zidek
(913)491-2944
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JZidek7003(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Fwd: Want a ride in an RV-4 |
---------------------
Subj: Want a ride in an RV-4
Date: 95-12-22 01:37:49 EST
From: JZidek7003
High everyone on the list, I read every entry before going to bed and I think
it is great! I started building an RV-4 in Sept-95. I have completed the
tail feathers and have both main wings in the jigs with the leading edge and
fuel tanks done. I now have a partner in this progect which has made the
building go so much faster. Both of us live in the Kansas City area and
would give our first born son for a ride in an RV-4. So far we have only
been able to locate 1 flying RV-4 in the KC area and he does not give rides
as he told my partner Walt. If anyone out there knows someone with an RV-4
within a 200 miles of Kansas City and will give us a ride PLEASE let use
know. We would be able to be very flexable as to the time and place to meet
you. We both fly rentals and can fly to meet you at your plane. Once again
thanks for the rv-list and everyone have a great CHRISTMAS.
John Zidek
(913)491-2944
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark D Hiatt" <OttoPilot_MSN(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | When Did You Become An RV Builder? |
When did you consider yourself an RV builder?
Was it the first time you saw one on the flightline
or in a magazine? Was it when you ordered your first
info kit and video? The plans? The first kit?
Was it when you bent that first piece of metal, or
skinned that first knuckle? Completed that first
component? Or was it when you finally got signed-off
for your first flight?
This is a really big project, but like a headache,
it's difficult to say sometimes when it really starts
or when it really ends. I've seen a lot of homebuilt
airplanes. But I've *never* seen one that was done!
Someone is always thinking about a better radio, or
another carpet color, or an additional fuel tank or
something.
But when did it start, for you? And what was the one
biggest factor, in your decision to build an RV?
Mark D Hiatt
OttoPilot_MSN(at)msn.com
Aviation Forum Manager
The Microsoft Network
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: When Did You Become An RV Builder?) |
> When did you consider yourself an RV builder?
[snip]
> But when did it start, for you? And what was the one
> biggest factor, in your decision to build an RV?
>
> Mark D Hiatt
> OttoPilot_MSN(at)msn.com
> Aviation Forum Manager
> The Microsoft Network
In the interest of avoiding a flood of chatter, I'd like to suggest we
respond to this one to Mark personally (OttoPilot_MSN(at)msn.com) as
opposed to sending to the whole list.
Randall Henderson
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert Busick <rbusick(at)nmsu.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: The Last Rivet |
While drilling my bottom wing skins, I was
wondering, where is the last rivet to be drilled/bucked? And how do you
know it is the last rivet? For those that have completed the airplane
you might not remember the last rivet, but approximately where was the
general location?
Bob Busick
RV-6
>
> This is a really big project, but like a headache,
> it's difficult to say sometimes when it really starts
> or when it really ends. I've seen a lot of homebuilt
> airplanes. But I've *never* seen one that was done!
>
> Mark D Hiatt
> OttoPilot_MSN(at)msn.com
> Aviation Forum Manager
> The Microsoft Network
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kightdm(at)harvey.carol.net |
| Subject: | Manual Elevator Trim on RV-6 |
Hello from South Carolina!
Hope everyone survived the Christmas rush. I'm still working on the trim
tab on my RV-6. I have the manual trim, and I am concerned about slop in
the cable. Right before Christmas, Jerry Springer responded to Scott in
Chicago:
>I flew for over 400 hrs with the manual trim and did not like it because of the
>slack that was in the cable. I installed a Mac trim and have over 300 hrs on
>it and find that it works great, I have the switch on the control stick and I
>find that it is much easier to trim now......
I also have some play in the cable (about 1/8"), and I wonder how
aggravating that will actually be in flight. Won't aerodynamic loads on the
tail keep the slack taken up? What about the possibility of trim tab
flutter? Is anybody else happy (or unhappy) with the manual system? I
really want to keep everything as simple and reliable as possible, but it
also has to be functional.
If there is a compelling reason for the electric trim (other than the
obvious "coolness" factor) please let me know.
Thanks and Happy New Year,
Danny Kight
kightdm(at)carol.net
RV-6 trying to finish empennage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bobh(at)synopsys.com (Bob Haan) |
| Subject: | Sherwin Williams Primer |
When I was at Van's workshop a few weeks ago I noticed that the parts they
had justed primed with Sherwin Williams looked different and better than
mine. They told me they do not use the recommended mixing formula of 1.5
Catalyst to 1.0 Base but instead use 2.5 Catalyst to 1.0 Base. I tried
this and found it easier to spray a light uniform coat, it dries quicker so
it is easy to paint one side and then wait 10-15 minutes and then do the
other side, and it appears to be as hard and durable - perhaps even harder.
I also tried 2.0 to 1.0 and went back to 2.5 to 1.0 because it seemed
better and if Van's is doing it . . . . . .
RV6 Just finished wings rear spares
Bob
>Thanks all for the quick response regarding the Primers. From what I've
>heard, the SW is more durable, but I'm using Vari-Prime on the tail since
>it is available locally (read: now). I'll get some SW shipped in to try
>before I get too far along. Both sound like they are nice and easy in
>regards to prep.
>
>As for the weather, I'll not rub it in again! But remember, if you want
>to work on an RV in warm weather, just plan your next "vacation" here on
>Maui!
>
>Aloha,
>
>Russ Werner, RV4 HS
>russ(at)maui.net
>
>Content-Type: application/ms-tnef
>
>Attachment converted: Macintosh HD:RE- RV-List- Primers 1 (????/----)
>(00003614)
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Bob Haan Office 503-531-2366
Pacific Northwest Mobile 503-720-1132
Account Manager FAX 503-690-6906
Synopsys Modeling Group E-mail bobh(at)synopsys.com
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Wentz <Don_Wentz(at)ccm2.hf.intel.com> |
| Subject: | Need name/address in Charlotte NC |
Hi RVers, I recently visited an RV builder in NC. I need to send you
some paperwork, but lost your address.
thx, Don Wentz
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JamesCone(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Quick Build Kits (Chatter) |
Half the fun of having the RV is building it yourself and the pride that
comes from that accomplishment. I am sure that Van's will continue to sell
the kits as he does now for those who really enjoy building. For those who
want a great plane but don't have the time or the ability to build, the fast
build kits will be a welcome addition. I personally look forward to getting
in my shop and working on the RV-6A that is taking shape and will fly this
next year. It is a great past time and keeps me out of trouble.
Jim Cone
RV-6A working on finishing kit.
jamescone(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Johnson <rvgasj(at)popmail.mcs.net> |
| Subject: | Notching HS Flange So Elevator Control Horn Can Move |
I placed my finished elevator onto my HS and was horrified to see that the
elevator does not have much down because the elevator control horn hits the
HS spar flange. Are we suppose to notch the spar flange so that the elevator
horn can move and give more down elevator ? I can not find this anywhere.
Worried ...
Scott Johnson rvgasj(at)mcs.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter Bennett" <elanora(at)zip.com.au> |
| Subject: | Re: Manual Elevator Trim on RV-6 |
,
>
> I also have some play in the cable (about 1/8"), and I wonder how
> aggravating that will actually be in flight. Won't aerodynamic loads on the
> tail keep the slack taken up? What about the possibility of trim tab
> flutter? Is anybody else happy (or unhappy) with the manual system? I
> really want to keep everything as simple and reliable as possible, but it
> also has to be functional.
> If there is a compelling reason for the electric trim (other than the
> obvious "coolness" factor) please let me know.
>
> Thanks and Happy New Year,
>
> Danny Kight
> kightdm(at)carol.net
> RV-6 trying to finish empennage
I built the empennage for manual trim but decided to convert to
electric for all the reasons you give. Conversion looked messy so I
asked Van about it when he was in Australia in March. His advice was
that manual has no problems, but to convert, leave the elevator setup
as for manual, use an RV4 throttle cable to run back to the servo
mounted behind F606 bulkhead. This gets rid of the 180 degree bend
which is the cause of the slop
Bill Benedict was in Sydney a couple of weeks ago. He is confident that
mechanical has no problems. I have flown in two RV6s which seem to
have no problems, but Simon Pike's second RV6 (with all the "wish I
hadda" items included) has electric.
You choose!
Regards
Peter
Peter Bennett
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Notching HS Flange So Elevator Control Horn Can |
Move
>I placed my finished elevator onto my HS and was horrified to see that the
>elevator does not have much down because the elevator control horn hits the
>HS spar flange. Are we suppose to notch the spar flange so that the elevator
>horn can move and give more down elevator ? I can not find this anywhere.
>Worried ...
> Scott Johnson rvgasj(at)mcs.com
>
>You are correct about notching the flange. I believe that it is mentioned
in the manual or perhaps one of the newsletters. If I remember correctly, I
waited until the HS was installed on the fuse. and took off as little
material as possible to achieve adequate down travel. Of course, you don't
want to cut into the flange strip.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "R. Werner" <russ(at)maui.net> |
| Subject: | Sherwin Williams Primer |
Bob,
Thanks for the info. I'm going to have to get some of the SW and try it.
I've been using the vari-prime, but it is like a lot of primers in that if
you handle it much with dirty hands, it really shows. From what I've heard
of the SW, it is much harder. Now if I could just locate some here in
Hawaii! Thanks for the tip on mixing.
Russ
russ(at)maui.net
RE:
When I was at Van's workshop a few weeks ago I noticed that the parts they
had justed primed with Sherwin Williams looked different and better than
mine. They told me they do not use the recommended mixing formula of 1.5
Catalyst to 1.0 Base but instead use 2.5 Catalyst to 1.0 Base. I tried
this and found it easier to spray a light uniform coat, it dries quicker so
it is easy to paint one side and then wait 10-15 minutes and then do the
other side, and it appears to be as hard and durable - perhaps even harder.
I also tried 2.0 to 1.0 and went back to 2.5 to 1.0 because it seemed
better and if Van's is doing it . . . . . .
RV6 Just finished wings rear spares
Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ammeterj(at)ammeterj.seanet.com (John Ammeter) |
| Subject: | Re: Notching HS Flange So Elevator Control Horn Can Move |
>I placed my finished elevator onto my HS and was horrified to see that the
>elevator does not have much down because the elevator control horn hits the
>HS spar flange. Are we suppose to notch the spar flange so that the elevator
>horn can move and give more down elevator ? I can not find this anywhere.
>Worried ...
> Scott Johnson rvgasj(at)mcs.com
>
No problem; go ahead and notch the flanges. Since the two HS Spar flanges
are a butt splice there you won't lose any appreciatble strength by notching
the flanges; of course, I assume you would only be notching for about 1 to 1
1/2" out from the splice.
I had to do the same thing. Maybe Van's should mention this in the manual.
John Ammeter
ammeterj(at)ammeterj.seanet.com
Seattle WA, USA
RV-6 N16JA
Flying 5 years
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: When Did You Become An RV Builder? |
>This is a really big project, but like a headache,
>it's difficult to say sometimes when it really starts
>or when it really ends. I've seen a lot of homebuilt
>airplanes. But I've *never* seen one that was done!
>But when did it start, for you? And what was the one
>biggest factor, in your decision to build an RV?
I guess I considered myself a builder when I finished my first component, the
HS. That was quite thrill. Sorta like a first solo.
The biggest factor in my decision to build one was (and this in Vans
buzzword, but it's a fact) the value. It represented the most airplane
(IMHO) that I could buy for the money. There are other kitplanes that I
might rather have, but none that I could build for the same amount of $$.
-- Ed Bundy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "R. Werner" <russ(at)maui.net> |
| Subject: | Rivet Insertion Direction |
My limited experience in reading these plans and instructions is that there
is an answer to nearly every question there if you look hard enough at the
plans and instructions (at least on the tail feathers). I'm still looking,
but I can't figure out (if it even matters) which way to insert the rivets
on the Front spar of the Horizontal Stab where it joins the HS410
reinforcement plate.
I'm ready to go on these and hate to guess wrong if it matters. Could
someone let me know asap!
Aloha,
Russ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bakerv4(at)cdsnet.net (James Baker) |
| Subject: | Re: Rivet Insertion Direction |
>My limited experience in reading these plans and instructions is that there
>is an answer to nearly every question there if you look hard enough at the
>plans and instructions (at least on the tail feathers). I'm still looking,
>but I can't figure out (if it even matters) which way to insert the rivets
>on the Front spar of the Horizontal Stab where it joins the HS410
>reinforcement plate.
>
>I'm ready to go on these and hate to guess wrong if it matters. Could
>someone let me know asap!
>
>Aloha,
>
> Russ
>
>
Russ,
It does not matter which way the rivits go in. I choice to put mine thru the
spar and form the shop head on the flange strips.
Have fun!
Working on the wings of my RV-4.
Jim
Email bakerv4(at)cdsnet.net
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | cn755(at)freenet.carleton.ca (Catherine Lamport) |
My husband will be in the West Coast area soon and wants to kn]ow
the hours of operation and address of the Boeing Surplus ware-
house (store) in Seattle.
His wings and tail of his RV 6A are completed after 13 months.
Thanks in advance.
Cathy Lamport
Nepean, Ontario, Canada
cn755(at)freenet.carleton.ca
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | LHaines794(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: When Did You Become An RV Builder? |
writes:
>There are other kitplanes that I
>might rather have, but none that I could build for the same amount of $$.
I'll admit that there are times when I see an ad for the Lancair 4P that I
think " It'd sure be cool to be able to cruise @ 335 MPH and almost 30,000
feet !" , but then I start thinking about all the negatives :
- Alot of extra build time. (I heard of one glass plane the builder spent
9000 hours on!)
- Alot of extra maintenance.(Especially with turbocharger)
- Alot of extra runway.
- Alot of extra money.
- Fussier building environment requirement.
- Fears of delamination.
There is no doubt in my mind that the RV was the best choise for me, and for
more reasons than just money.
Happy New Year and Happy Building/ Flying !
LHaines
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jperri(at)interserv.com |
| Subject: | Re: When Did You Become An RV Builder? |
I agree.. The RV is the best kit plane for the money..
JMP
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David A. Barnhart" <barnhart(at)crl.com> |
| Subject: | I bought an engine |
Well, everyone, I just had to share this.
Yesterday I bought an engine. I found a used IO320-B1A. It's runout, at
the end of it's second run. The logbook shows that at the last overhaul
the crank had not been ground and was still a standard crank. The engine
was pulled out of a twin Comanche at TBO for a 180hp conversion.
It is a complete 'firewall forward' engine (I even have the old Comanche
engine mount), with all accessories (even the oil cooler and baffling!),
and cost me $4500.
In a few weeks, I'll tear it down and send the crankshaft out for
inspection (and cross my fingers).
A couple of notes for anyone else considering an IO320-B1A: These
engines have the Bendix fuel injection servo mounted on the aft face of
the sump. IN order to fit easily, you need to swap the sump for one that
mounts the servo on the bottom. My local parts supplier says he can find
a sump for me for about $250.
Second, not only is it a Dynafocal 2 mount, the mounting surfaces have
recessed notches that require the use of aluminum spacers to provide
crankcase clearance for the dynafocal shocks. (Fortunately for me this
was not a problem, since my engine came with the old engine mount, the
spacers and old dynafocal shocks were still in place.)
Before I bought this engine, I called Van's and talked to Tom. I asked
him if there was anything else that was special about this engine I should
worry about, and he said no.
So now that I've got an engine, I think I'll go ahead and reserve an
N-number and get the (future) airplane registered. How does N601DB sound?
:-)
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
rv-6 sn 23744
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "R. Werner" <russ(at)maui.net> |
| Subject: | Rivet Insertion Direction |
>It does not matter which way the rivits go in. I choice to put mine
thru the
>spar and form the shop head on the flange strips.
Jim,
Thanks. I figured that it didn't matter since they are mounted in shear
and should be about as strong either way. I just didn't want to go for it
and find out later that there was a detail drawing or something else that I
missed that showed the proper direction. Thanks for the reply.
Russ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bobh(at)synopsys.com (Bob Haan) |
| Subject: | Re: Boeing Surplus |
Please reply to the list -
I would also like the address and directions to the Boeing Surplus Store.
>My husband will be in the West Coast area soon and wants to kn]ow
>the hours of operation and address of the Boeing Surplus ware-
>house (store) in Seattle.
>
>His wings and tail of his RV 6A are completed after 13 months.
>
>Thanks in advance.
>
>Cathy Lamport
>Nepean, Ontario, Canada
>cn755(at)freenet.carleton.ca
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Bob Haan Office 503-531-2366
Pacific Northwest Mobile 503-720-1132
Account Manager FAX 503-690-6906
Synopsys Modeling Group E-mail bobh(at)synopsys.com
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: I bought an engine |
| From: | Jack Abell <abell(at)rand.org> |
Yo, One Delta Bravo. Sounds good to me. I hope your crankshaft is
healthy.
Good luck.
Jack Abell
RV-6A Rudder
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jperri(at)interserv.com |
Sent this message once before.. A friend just about to finish his RV-6A asked if
there is anything special he needed to do prior to or during his fly-off period
to certify his plane for IFR use. He has all the right equipment for IFR flight
just needs some advise. Anyone on the list have the real scoop?
Thanks
J.M.Perri CFII RV-6 360 hrs.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: I bought an engine |
>So now that I've got an engine, I think I'll go ahead and reserve an
>N-number and get the (future) airplane registered. How does N601DB sound?
>:-)
>Best Regards,
>Dave Barnhart
>rv-6 sn 23744
Hey, how could you go wrong with initials like that?
Regards,
Dana Breda
N138DB
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rust47rg(at)one.net |
>Sent this message once before.. A friend just about to finish his RV-6A
asked if
>there is anything special he needed to do prior to or during his fly-off
period
>to certify his plane for IFR use. He has all the right equipment for IFR
flight
>just needs some advise. Anyone on the list have the real scoop?
>
>Thanks
>
>J.M.Perri CFII RV-6 360 hrs.
>
Have the static system/ transponder check done just as if it were a
certified aircraft. Do the VOR test. Comply with the fly-off period and when
the pilot is ready, go for it.
In other words, it's the same as a certified aircraft.
Make sure he has asked for and been given IFR flight on the aircraft paperwork.
Regards:
Rusty Gossard
RV-4 N47RG (IFR equiped and flown)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
Does anyone know if there is a semi-current directory on N-numbers that are
in use? I'd like to check on availability of some without sending in
paperwork over and over to find out.
Thanks,
Ed Bundy (still whackin' on the fuse...)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JerryFlyRV(at)aol.com |
>Does anyone know if there is a semi-current directory on N-numbers that are
in use? I'd like to check on availability of some without sending in
paperwork over and over to find out.
Thanks,
Ed Bundy (still whackin' on the fuse...)<
ED
I have a CD ROM that has all US registered airplane on it, it is current up
to the last quarter of '95 If you E-mail me the #'s you have in mind I will
run a check on them for you.
Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Ayers <102337.2252(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: I bought an engine |
>Date: Sun, 31 Dec 1995 09:51:19 -0800 (PST)
>From: "David A. Barnhart" <barnhart(at)crl.com>
>
>Yesterday I bought an engine. I found a used IO320-B1A.(snip)
>A couple of notes for anyone else considering an IO320-B1A: These engines have
the >Bendix fuel injection servo mounted on the aft face of the sump. IN order
to fit easily, you >need to swap the sump for one that mounts the servo on the
bottom. My local parts supplier >says he can find a sump for me for about
$250.(snip)
Or you could go for an IO320 sump from a Citabria with the fuel injector facing
out the front of the sump. Your local parts supplier may have one of those,
also.
Jim Ayers
LOM RV-3 (4+ hrs on the plastic prop, out of the 10 hrs required)
102337.2252(at)compuserve.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bakerv4(at)cdsnet.net (James Baker) |
>Does anyone know if there is a semi-current directory on N-numbers that are
>in use? I'd like to check on availability of some without sending in
>paperwork over and over to find out.
>
>Thanks,
>Ed Bundy (still whackin' on the fuse...)
>
Ed,
You can do a search on the "WINGS", online home page at;
http://www.gate.net/~wings/
under links for aircraft buyers,
Search form for N numbers
I found this page this evening and found it worked ok!
Having fun
RV-4 wings
Jim Baker Email: bakerv4(at)cdsnet.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ammeterj(at)ammeterj.seanet.com (John Ammeter) |
>Does anyone know if there is a semi-current directory on N-numbers that are
>in use? I'd like to check on availability of some without sending in
>paperwork over and over to find out.
>
>Thanks,
>Ed Bundy (still whackin' on the fuse...)
>
No problem. Go to http://acro.harvard.edu/GA/search.html and look up the
'N' number you're interested in. If not there, then it's likely it's not
assigned yet. Look up a few numbers and send in for the best ones.
Good Luck; My number, N16JA, stands for 1st airplane built, RV-6, John Ammeter.
John Ammeter
ammeterj(at)ammeterj.seanet.com
Seattle WA, USA
RV-6 N16JA
Flying 5 years
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | "Unsuitable" engines |
First up, congratulations to "DB" on getting his engine....
I just wanted to let you fellow listers know that I have installed an 0-320 with
the
curved riser in my "6A" - this was not supposed to be a possibility according to
factory
info.
The engine is a 1956 vintage 0320 - (no suffix on the plate or in the logbook so
I guess
its an A1A?) - conical mount, from a mooney M20. - I expected to have to convert
the
sump to a straight riser when I bought it... but the price was right...(3000tt,
800smoh)
- $6000 including C/S prop, all accessories including the governor.
I even managed to use the standard air box from Vans, but I did need to make a
new top
plate to move the box further forward away from the nose wheel mount - the filter
is
now a pretty tight fit... I also had to modify the rig to make the fibrglass bowl
detachable to allow easier maintenance - . It's pretty close but I have about 1/4"
between the airbox and the gear mount. I will be happy to give further details
to anyone
who has a similar situation....
All the best for a safe and prosperous new year to all RVators - especially
Lancastrians !!!! ;^)
Rob Lee
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bobh(at)synopsys.com (Bob Haan) |
| Subject: | Drill Bushing -Spar & Rib Reinforcing Angle Brackets |
What did you use as a drill bushing for the 3/16 diameter holes in the spar
where the AN bolts attach the rib reinforcing angles?
The plans recommend using a bushing so as not to enlarge the factory
drilled holes in the spar. This drilling step is where the rib reinforcing
angles (Rib Attach Angles W-630) are clamped in place on the spar and 2
holes for the AN bolts are drilled into the rib reinforcing angles using
the existing holes in the main spare as a guide.
I am not familiar with bushings. Are they available at a hardware store?
Did you not use a bushing but drilled carefully?
Thanks - 6A Working on the Wings,
Bob
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Bob Haan Office 503-531-2366
Pacific Northwest Mobile 503-720-1132
Account Manager FAX 503-690-6906
Synopsys Modeling Group E-mail bobh(at)synopsys.com
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Cocker <jcocker(at)frontier.canrem.com> |
Before I finish the brakes, does anyone have strong views on the necessity
for a parking brake ?
It seems to complicate the brake lines.
John.
Canopy completed, engine due to arrive.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mkerzie(at)qnet.com (Mark G. Kerzie) |
| Subject: | Extra Row of Rivets ... |
.... on the F-672 (RV-6) forward bottom skin. I need some advice before
pressing on.
The center bottom skins (F-676/677) extend far enough forward
(overlapping the F-672 forward bottom skin) that a THIRD row of rivets could
be placed directly underneath the spar. Here's the problem ... best I can
measure, it looks like I'll ONLY have between 1/8" and 3/16" clearance
between the skins and where the spar will rest. An eighth of an inch is
plenty of room for the shop head on a 3/32" rivet, but what kind of problems
will be introduced when it comes time to insert the spar into the fuselage?
Is there any benefit to adding this third row of rivets, or should I just
hack off the center bottom skins at the trailing edge of the spar as per the
plans?
Mark G. Kerzie - RV-6
mkerzie(at)qnet.com
Installing forward fuselage side skins
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mkerzie(at)qnet.com (Mark G. Kerzie) |
| Subject: | Proseal/RTVing the Forward Bottom Fuselage Skin |
Where on the firewall should proseal/RTV be used when riveting the skins
to the firewall ... all the way around, just the bottom and corners?
Mark G. Kerzie - RV-6
mkerzie(at)qnet.com
Installing forward fuselage side skins
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mkerzie(at)qnet.com (Mark G. Kerzie) |
Frank Justice suggests leaving the forward bottom skin off until the
instruments have been installed. We've been told that skin should be riveted
in place now to give the forward fuselage some rigidity after removal from the
jig. Our "informant" claims that there is more than enough access from
above if the top skin is left off until the instruments are in place.
Anybody with experience using either of the above methods?
Mark G. Kerzie - RV-6
mkerzie(at)qnet.com
Installing forward fuselage side skins
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ammeterj(at)ammeterj.seanet.com (John Ammeter) |
| Subject: | Re: Parking Brakes |
At 04:03 PM 1/1/96 GMT, rv-list(at)matronics.com wrote:
>Before I finish the brakes, does anyone have strong views on the necessity
>for a parking brake ?
>
>It seems to complicate the brake lines.
>
>John.
>Canopy completed, engine due to arrive.
>
No strong feelings but it adds extra weight as well as complexity. Unless
you live where the winds are so strong that you have to have the brakes on
before you can leave the cockpit I would advise against it. Just remember
to tie down the RV; they are light enough that it is easy for them to start
rolling in a moderate wind.
John Ammeter
ammeterj(at)ammeterj.seanet.com
Seattle WA, USA
RV-6 N16JA
Flying 5 years
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dierks(at)austin.ibm.com |
| Subject: | Re: 'slop' in trim cable |
I just got my RV-4 flying. I found that most of the 'slop' in the
trim tab was due to the clevis pins and not the cable. I removed the
pins and used AN-3 bolts and this got rid of most of the slop.
Now there is only a very slight movement due to the cable and this
is not a problem.
Herman
>
> Hope everyone survived the Christmas rush. I'm still working on the trim
> tab on my RV-6. I have the manual trim, and I am concerned about slop in
> the cable. Right before Christmas, Jerry Springer responded to Scott in
> Chicago:
>
> >I flew for over 400 hrs with the manual trim and did not like it because of
the
> >slack that was in the cable. I installed a Mac trim and have over 300 hrs on
> >it and find that it works great, I have the switch on the control stick and
I
> >find that it is much easier to trim now......
>
> I also have some play in the cable (about 1/8"), and I wonder how
> aggravating that will actually be in flight. Won't aerodynamic loads on the
> tail keep the slack taken up? What about the possibility of trim tab
> flutter? Is anybody else happy (or unhappy) with the manual system? I
> really want to keep everything as simple and reliable as possible, but it
> also has to be functional.
> If there is a compelling reason for the electric trim (other than the
> obvious "coolness" factor) please let me know.
>
> Thanks and Happy New Year,
>
> Danny Kight
> kightdm(at)carol.net
> RV-6 trying to finish empennage
>
>
--
--------------------------------------------------------
*NOTICE for internet mail*: Any ideas or thoughts expressed here are my
own and are independent of my employer.
Herman Dierks, Dept. E54S, AWSD Austin, Texas
AIX Network Performance Measurement/Analysis
phone: TL 678-2831 outside: (512) 838-2831
ZIP: 9632 fax: 512-838-1801
mail: dierks(at)austin.ibm.com VM: DIERKS at AUSVM6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dierks(at)austin.ibm.com |
| Subject: | Re: N number list online |
FYI, I could not access the database that John noted below but
I accessed it via the IAC homepage.
Go to http://acro.harvard.edu/IAC/iac_homepg.html
and then select 'Other General Aviation related information' and
then select 'N-Number lookup'.
This takes you to http://acro.harvard.edu/GA/search_nnr.html
which may be the URL that John was posting.
FYI, I think this database only shows registered aircraft and not
'reserved N numbers'. For example, my RV-4 N number (N95HD) has been
reserved for over a year and it does not show up on this database.
I just registered the aircraft in Dec 95 so I expect it will show up
on the next update (if the gov. empoyees go back to work).
You can also just call the FAA and they will look up a few numbers for you
over the phone. You can call the FAA Registration branch at
phone # is 405-954-3116
Herman
> >Does anyone know if there is a semi-current directory on N-numbers that are
> >in use? I'd like to check on availability of some without sending in
> >paperwork over and over to find out.
> >
> >Thanks,
> >Ed Bundy (still whackin' on the fuse...)
> >
> No problem. Go to http://acro.harvard.edu/GA/search.html and look up the
> 'N' number you're interested in. If not there, then it's likely it's not
> assigned yet. Look up a few numbers and send in for the best ones.
>
> Good Luck; My number, N16JA, stands for 1st airplane built, RV-6, John Ammeter.
>
> John Ammeter
> ammeterj(at)ammeterj.seanet.com
> Seattle WA, USA
> RV-6 N16JA
> Flying 5 years
>
>
Herman Dierks, Dept. E54S, AWSD Austin, Texas
AIX Network Performance Measurement/Analysis
phone: TL 678-2831 outside: (512) 838-2831
ZIP: 9632 fax: 512-838-1801
mail: dierks(at)austin.ibm.com VM: DIERKS at AUSVM6
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Parking Brakes |
John Cocker wrote:
>Before I finish the brakes, does anyone have strong views on the necessity
>for a parking brake ?
>It seems to complicate the brake lines.
>John.
>Canopy completed, engine due to arrive.
I do not have a strong opinion on this, but I did install a parking brake (and
dual
brakes) on my 6A. My resoning was that it is much more convenient than lugging
chocks
around when you are fueling or whatever on your own. Or indeed when just popping
into
the FBO to answer natures call!
The park brake wasn't too complicated, and used the existing hoses from Vans. I
used the
Cleveland parking brake valve which I got from Aircraft Spruce. It mounted on the
inside
of the firewall, directly above the pilots feet, and just below the top upper angle.
Cable comes out on the extreme LHS of the panel.
The only additional thing needed was about 18" more 1/4" alum. tube.-
John, From your other posting I presume you are a Lanky too ? Details ?
Regards and a Happy New Year, Rob Lee
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jcimino(at)jcimino.microserve.com (Jim Cimino) |
>Does anyone know if there is a semi-current directory on N-numbers that are
>in use? I'd like to check on availability of some without sending in
>paperwork over and over to find out.
>
>Thanks,
>Ed Bundy (still whackin' on the fuse...)
>
>There is access to a current list through my home page.
"http://www.microserve.net/~jcimino/"
Jim Cimino
RV-4 sn 4079 waiting for the RV-8
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | GDQD86A(at)prodigy.com ( CECIL T HATFIELD) |
| Subject: | Re: Tapering Wing Skins |
Where the two skins, W-603 and W-602 overlap, drawing 21 Section B-B
shows them tapering to fit.
Question: How have other builders accomplished this? My thought
would be to clamp two thick steel sheet metal pieces top and bottom
as guides for my belt sander for initial shape then elbow grease the
rest.
Seems that others before me would have found the simple way to do
this and make a neat job of it. Your thoughts would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Cecil Hatfield RV-6
it California
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jack Abell <abell(at)rand.org> |
Happy new year to all! I hope 1996 will see many RV completions and
successful maiden flights. Have a safe and productive new year.
Jack Abell
RV-6A Rudder
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Johnson <rvgasj(at)popmail.mcs.net> |
| Subject: | Explosion while priming ? |
Preface: I have heard of a few stories of people blowing themselves up when
pouring gasoline from cans into airplanes and lawnmowers (via static
electricity sparks). My local FBO always grounds the airplane before he
fills it. Yet I have never seen anybody ground their lawnmower when they
fill it. In light of reasonable safety, what do you think of the following
questions regarding the potential of explosion from priming? (Note: up to
this point I have been priming with Tempo zinc chromate cans and have not
given it a second thought. However, I am switching to a spray gun today for
the wing spars.)
Most metal spray guns I have seen contain the warning on the side of the
spray head that says 'do not use glass jars'. Does this have anything to do
with the fact that glass is not a conductor, and there could be a
differential electrostatic charge between the paint in the glass conatainer
and the metal spray gun (potentially causing and explosion)? Or does it only
have to do with the fact that glass jars can break in the spray gun - jar
attach neck.
I have purchased one of those paint zip guns that works by syphoning to
variprime my parts. I noticed that the paint only flows through plastic
parts and is stored in paper cups. Couldn't there still be an electrostatic
potential between the paint and the metal being painted?
Does anybody out their go to the trouble of grounding their paint sprayers
and parts their spraying?
The paper cups fall off the zip gun so I took a small glass jar with a metal
cup lid and riveted to the zip gun. Is this safe considering the above?
Why do they sell the zip gun with wax cups when I have read previously the
wax comes off the cup and ends up on the primed surface?
Thanks in advance to all the people who shed some light on this ...
Scott
Johnson rvgasj(at)mcs.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JamesCone(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Parking Brakes |
I installed a parking brake on mine and it was easy. If you pull up to a gas
pump that is not on level ground you can set the brake and de-plane without
worring about rolling into something. It is also nice for run-ups and such.
Jim Cone
jamescone(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ammeterj(at)ammeterj.seanet.com (John Ammeter) |
| Subject: | Re: Panel Access |
>Frank Justice suggests leaving the forward bottom skin off until the
>instruments have been installed. We've been told that skin should be riveted
>in place now to give the forward fuselage some rigidity after removal from the
>jig. Our "informant" claims that there is more than enough access from
>above if the top skin is left off until the instruments are in place.
>Anybody with experience using either of the above methods?
>
>Mark G. Kerzie - RV-6
>mkerzie(at)qnet.com
>Installing forward fuselage side skins
>
IMHO, you can either leave the top skin off until all instruments are in
place, make the top skin removeable by using nutplates or make a 'access
panel' in the middle of the top skin. I've seen all methods; all are good.
My choice would be to make a removeable access panel in the top skin. Of
course, this advice is for only the RV-6 and RV-6A.
John Ammeter
ammeterj(at)ammeterj.seanet.com
Seattle WA, USA
RV-6 N16JA
Flying 5 years
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bakerv4(at)cdsnet.net (James Baker) |
| Subject: | Re: Tapering Wing Skins |
>Where the two skins, W-603 and W-602 overlap, drawing 21 Section B-B
>shows them tapering to fit.
>Question: How have other builders accomplished this? My thought
>would be to clamp two thick steel sheet metal pieces top and bottom
>as guides for my belt sander for initial shape then elbow grease the
>rest.
>Seems that others before me would have found the simple way to do
>this and make a neat job of it. Your thoughts would be appreciated.
>Thanks,
>Cecil Hatfield RV-6
>it California
>
>
>
Wait, you're not tapering the full lenght are you????
This bevel is only on the forward corner and is only done for looks.
Don't over do it. Just a small area needs to be tapered.
Having fun :-)
RV-4 wing
Jim Baker
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Johnson <rvgasj(at)popmail.mcs.net> |
| Subject: | Mixing Zinc Chromate Primer With Variprime |
If you prime your parts with Variprime and accidently scratch off some
primer here and their down to bare metal, is it OK to touch up with Tempo
Zinc Chromate Primer in a spray can. Or will they react chemically in an
adverse way overtime. Has anybody done this ? Scott Johnson rvgasj(at)mcs.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RFlunker(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: I bought an engine |
Congrats on the engine.
Since I'm new at this engine search bit I'm wondering if you might share how
you went about finding yours?
Thanks in advance.
Dick Flunker
RV-6A, working on right elevator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David A. Barnhart" <barnhart(at)crl.com> |
| Subject: | Re: I bought an engine |
On Mon, 1 Jan 1996 RFlunker(at)aol.com wrote:
> Since I'm new at this engine search bit I'm wondering if you might share how
> you went about finding yours?
Simple: I told everyone I knew that I was lookng for an engine. I
originally was looking for an O-360, but let everyone know that I would
not pass up a sufficiently good deal on an O-320. A friend-of-a-friend knew
about this particular engine. When I discovered that it was complete
with the entire Bendix fuel injection system, and learned a little more
about its history, I decided that I could not pass it up.
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
rv-6 sn 23744
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Panel Access |
>Frank Justice suggests leaving the forward bottom skin off until the
>instruments have been installed. We've been told that skin should be riveted
>in place now to give the forward fuselage some rigidity after removal from the
>jig. Our "informant" claims that there is more than enough access from
>above if the top skin is left off until the instruments are in place.
>Anybody with experience using either of the above methods?
>
>Mark G. Kerzie - RV-6
>mkerzie(at)qnet.com
>Installing forward fuselage side skins
>
>I tend to agree that it would be best to rivet the bottom skin on, therby
increasing rigidity. I felt like there was adequate room to work on
instruments, brakes, etc. with the top, forward skin off. Bob Skinner
flying RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Boeing Surplus |
not sure of the address, but it is off I-5 exit 188 (sea-tac) it is closed
mondays and sundays but open from 8 am to 5 pm the rest of the week, except
for holidays. not hard to get to . take exit 188 follow orillia road down the
hill (heading east) till you come to the stop light with the McDonalds on
your left. turn left at that light and at the very next light, turn left
again. that will put you in their parking lot. expect different inventory
each day. they take cash or check and no tax to out of state buyers.
telephone number can be had by operator.(information for kent, wa.)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Tapering Wing Skins |
>Where the two skins, W-603 and W-602 overlap, drawing 21 Section B-B
>shows them tapering to fit.
>Question: How have other builders accomplished this? My thought
>would be to clamp two thick steel sheet metal pieces top and bottom
>as guides for my belt sander for initial shape then elbow grease the
>rest.
>Seems that others before me would have found the simple way to do
>this and make a neat job of it. Your thoughts would be appreciated.
>Thanks,
>Cecil Hatfield RV-6
>it California
>
>Your idea might work fine. Things can happen pretty fast with a belt
sander. I'd try your method on the bottom skins, first, just in case. I
did mine the old fashioned way, elbow grease. (of course, I ended up with
tenis elbow) Let us know how it turns out. Bob Skinner
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Extra Row of Rivets ... |
>
>.... on the F-672 (RV-6) forward bottom skin. I need some advice before
>pressing on.
>
>The center bottom skins (F-676/677) extend far enough forward
>(overlapping the F-672 forward bottom skin) that a THIRD row of rivets could
>be placed directly underneath the spar. Here's the problem ... best I can
>measure, it looks like I'll ONLY have between 1/8" and 3/16" clearance
>between the skins and where the spar will rest. An eighth of an inch is
>plenty of room for the shop head on a 3/32" rivet, but what kind of problems
>will be introduced when it comes time to insert the spar into the fuselage?
>Is there any benefit to adding this third row of rivets, or should I just
>hack off the center bottom skins at the trailing edge of the spar as per the
>plans?
>
>Mark G. Kerzie - RV-6
>mkerzie(at)qnet.com
>Installing forward fuselage side skins
>
>Mark, I would think that 2 rows are enough or Van would have included the
extra row. There would probably be enough clearence to the spar, but that
extra row of rivets could snag the bottom of the spar when you insert it
into the fuselage. The wing is heavy and awkward enough when inserting into
the fuse. with out having the additional problem of hanging up on rivets
that shouldn't be there. The rivets could also remove primer off of the
bottom of your spar and in fact, gouge the metal. I figure there are enough
rivets to drive without addiding additional ones. Also, I just left the
overhang, no reason to remove that I can see. Bob Skinner flying RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Proseal/RTVing the Forward Bottom Fuselage Skin |
>
>Where on the firewall should proseal/RTV be used when riveting the skins
>to the firewall ... all the way around, just the bottom and corners?
>
>Mark G. Kerzie - RV-6
>mkerzie(at)qnet.com
>Installing forward fuselage side skins
>
>
>Mark, I used used the red RTV where there were holes--bottom corners and
in the inset for oil filter, prop governor. Bob Skinner
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Explosion while priming ? |
>Preface: I have heard of a few stories of people blowing themselves up when
>pouring gasoline from cans into airplanes and lawnmowers (via static
>electricity sparks). My local FBO always grounds the airplane before he
>fills it. Yet I have never seen anybody ground their lawnmower when they
>fill it. In light of reasonable safety, what do you think of the following
>questions regarding the potential of explosion from priming? (Note: up to
>this point I have been priming with Tempo zinc chromate cans and have not
>given it a second thought. However, I am switching to a spray gun today for
>the wing spars.)
>
>
>Most metal spray guns I have seen contain the warning on the side of the
>spray head that says 'do not use glass jars'. Does this have anything to do
>with the fact that glass is not a conductor, and there could be a
>differential electrostatic charge between the paint in the glass conatainer
>and the metal spray gun (potentially causing and explosion)? Or does it only
>have to do with the fact that glass jars can break in the spray gun - jar
>attach neck.
>
>
>I have purchased one of those paint zip guns that works by syphoning to
>variprime my parts. I noticed that the paint only flows through plastic
>parts and is stored in paper cups. Couldn't there still be an electrostatic
>potential between the paint and the metal being painted?
>
>
>Does anybody out their go to the trouble of grounding their paint sprayers
>and parts their spraying?
>
>
>The paper cups fall off the zip gun so I took a small glass jar with a metal
>cup lid and riveted to the zip gun. Is this safe considering the above?
>
>
>Why do they sell the zip gun with wax cups when I have read previously the
>wax comes off the cup and ends up on the primed surface?
>
>
>Thanks in advance to all the people who shed some light on this ...
>
> Scott
>Johnson rvgasj(at)mcs.com
>
> I imagine the warning about glass was from a breakage point of view. I
tried one of the paper cup/siphon guns once and promtly sent it back. It
didn't do a very good job and was always slopping out. I don't think waxed
cups would be a good idea.
I purchased a small touch-up gun ( they can be found in various catalogs)
for about $ 20-30 and they do a much better job. I haven't worried much
about explosion from static electricy. I figured that a well ventilated
shop with the compressor outside was probably enough of a safety precaution.
(Don't use an electric drill to stir paint)
Bob Skinner RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BPattonsoa(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Drill Bushing -Spar & Rib Reinforcing Angle Brackets |
Go to your hardware store or hobby shop and buy brass tubing. The first O.D
is the hole that you are bushing, then the next smaller nesting sizes of
tubing until you have an inner diameter of a good pilot drill. (for the 1/4
in the main spar, use a 1/8 inner dia. tube). Cut the tubing to about 1.5"
lengths, stack together, push in the hole and drill. You have to pull the
drill back frequently to clear the chips, they have no place to go but up the
drill, and that will back up.
Bruce Patton
Fues out of jig, finish kit on order, One piece Steel jig for sale.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dennis Kane <dennis(at)straylight.net> |
| Subject: | Re: repost quick-built please |
I erased the message regarding the possible quick build RV series
(Malaysia Production/reship to U.S.A. I think ?).,
If someone saved it I would appreciate it if you would forward it to me.
Thanking someone in advance,
Respectfully,
Dennis Kane
STRAYlight Aviation Ephemera
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | crazer(at)midwest.net (Chester Razer) |
| Subject: | Aileron Brackets |
Can anyone tell me why the plans (page 16) call for #12 holes to be drilled
in the aileron hinge brackets when #3 bolts are to go in these holes.
Chet Razer
crazer(at)midwest.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | meehan(at)coopext.cahe.wsu.edu (Don Meehan) |
| Subject: | Re:Drill centering Bushing for Spar drilling |
Go to any automotive store and buy brake line. You will find it is 3/16
diameter and you can put an 1/8 inch bit inside that will fit snug enough to
get a good center hole. Then remove parts and drill out to full 3/16.
>What did you use as a drill bushing for the 3/16 diameter holes in the spar
>where the AN bolts attach the rib reinforcing angles?
>
>The plans recommend using a bushing so as not to enlarge the factory
>drilled holes in the spar. This drilling step is where the rib reinforcing
>angles (Rib Attach Angles W-630) are clamped in place on the spar and 2
>holes for the AN bolts are drilled into the rib reinforcing angles using
>the existing holes in the main spare as a guide.
>
>I am not familiar with bushings. Are they available at a hardware store?
>
>Did you not use a bushing but drilled carefully?
>
>Thanks - 6A Working on the Wings,
>
>Bob
>
>++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
>Bob Haan Office 503-531-2366
>Pacific Northwest Mobile 503-720-1132
>Account Manager FAX 503-690-6906
>Synopsys Modeling Group E-mail bobh(at)synopsys.com
>
>++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
>
>
>
Don Meehan - meehan(at)wsu.edu
Whidbey RV-ators
721 N. Palisades
Coupeville, WA 98239
( Fuselage - RV6A - moving on to Finish Kit.)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter Bennett" <elanora(at)zip.com.au> |
Happy new year all.
What is the correct bedding down inflation pressure for RV6 tires
(5.00-5) after initial fitting of tires and tubes?
What is normal operating pressure?
Is this info in the manual or am I still hung over from New Years
Eve?
For your Useful Trivia file, the Cleveland manual recommends storage
at 20psi.
Regards
Peter
Peter Bennett
Sydney Australia
RV6 skinning fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | OrndorffG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Aileron Brackets |
Chet ,
You will find that even thought a #3 bolt or 3/16 that a #3 bolt will not
go into a well drilled 3/16 hole it's too tight . A #12 bit is just a little
bigger and the #3 bolt will fit better, just as a 1/8 ' rivet will not fit
well in a 1/8 " hole you need to us a #30 bit. I hope this helps....George &
Becki Orndorff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | OrndorffG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Panel Access |
Becki and I were able to do all of our instruments with both the bottom and
top skins on. There is enought to work if your plan your work, one thing to
consider is that you want to be able to work on out instrument after you are
flying so plan for repairs. do not place things so that you cann't get to
them later. All things will need to be worked on ,replaced, or just looked at
for one reson or another so plan for this and you won't hate yourself
later.....George and Becki Orndorff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DerFlieger(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Parking Brakes |
>
>Before I finish the brakes, does anyone have strong views on the necessity
>for a parking brake ?
>
>
For most temporary parking, the parking brake is a real advantage, unless
you are used to carrying chocks. Yes it does complicate the lines,
especially if you have dual brakes. I just finished my changeover to dual
brakes with parking brake. I mounted the valve (from Spruce) on the firewall
and a push/pull cable on the panel to set/release it. I used the high
pressure plastic tubing from Van for everything inside the fuselage except
the input to the valve where you must transition to aluminum lines and AN
hardware. I used heavy duty airbrake fittings on all the plastic. These
have the insert attached, and a special ferrule which provides a superior
seal. It was difficult to push the hose on to the attached insert in the
confined spaces under the panel so I broke off the inserts and instead used
hardware store inserts which fit tightly into the plastic. I used my flush
rivet set (in the gun) to tap them into the hose.
Speaking of brakes, after about 200 hours my AL lines broke at the fitting on
the caliper assembly. I had provided the relief Van has recommended in the
construction plans. They apparently work hardened from the vibration. This
time I'll transition to a flex hose (aircraft type) about 6 inches from the
caliper.
Jim Stugart
DerFlieger(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DerFlieger(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Rivet Insertion Direction |
>
> >It does not matter which way the rivits go in. I choice to put mine
>thru the
>>spar and form the shop head on the flange strips.
>
>Jim,
>
>Thanks. I figured that it didn't matter since they are mounted in shear
>and should be about as strong either way. I just didn't want to go for it
>and find out later that there was a detail drawing or something else that I
>missed that showed the proper direction. Thanks for the reply.
>
>Russ
>
Russ, I have looked in all my references and also can say I can't find that
it matters. However, I have noticed that when you make the shop head
against particularly thin material, there is some distortion of the metal
around the hole. It's also particularly true if its a larger rivet. I tend
to put the factory head (whenever possible) against the thin material.
Jim Stugart
DerFlieger(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | B F Gibbons <bfgibbons(at)intellinet.com> |
| Subject: | Countersinking Wing Skins |
How does one countersink the wing skins where they overlap the spars =
(main and rear) and the tank baffle? The way I see it I have at least =
three options:
1) Machine countersink the skins (not my first choice).
2) Dimple the skin and the spar/baffle (I think the material is too =
thick to dimple).
3) Dimple the skin and countersink the spar/baffle. (I'm not excited =
about taking material out of the spar).
What's the preferred method here?
Thanks.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DerFlieger(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: I bought an engine |
>So now that I've got an engine, I think I'll go ahead and reserve an
>N-number and get the (future) airplane registered. How does N601DB sound?
>:-)
>
>
Dave,
Here's a point you might want to consider when getting your registration
number. How many times have you noticed (or been involved) when there is a
radio
mis-communication between aircraft or aircraft/controllers due to poorly
enunciated call signs, and/or bad radios or reception? Choosing easily said
and understood numerics and alphabetics can help this problem. I personally
favor 4 character call signs if you can get them, since it's less tempting to
truncate during an exchange with a controller. "Fiver" , "niner" , and
"zero" also are particularly hard to distort. I also like the two syllable
alphabetics. Just my opinion. As you are probably aware, you will be
allowed to list several choices in rank order.
Congratulations on your engine! Can you use a carb or fuel injection on the
existing sump? You could take the scoop off the cowl and cut your drag.
There might be enough clearance with the mount, etc. Nose gear could
complicate it tho.
Jim Stugart, N29PT
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Boeing Surplus |
Someone wrote:
> not sure of the address, but it is off I-5 exit 188 (sea-tac) it is closed
> mondays and sundays but open from 8 am to 5 pm the rest of the week, except
> for holidays. not hard to get to . take exit 188 follow orillia road down the
> hill (heading east) till you come to the stop light with the McDonalds on
> your left. turn left at that light and at the very next light, turn left
> again. that will put you in their parking lot. expect different inventory
> each day. they take cash or check and no tax to out of state buyers.
> telephone number can be had by operator.(information for kent, wa.)
>
This may be a little bit misleading. I live just off exit 189 in Everett and
this is about 45-50 miles north of where Boeing surplus is. I believe the 188
referred to in the above message is the street number and not the exit number.
You can get to Boeing surplus one of two ways: Take exit 152 off of I-5 and
head east. The road winds down the hill to the valley floor and then heads
straight across the valley. Turn left on 84th and left again at the first
light which will put you in the parking lot for the surplus store. A second
way is to get on I-405 and take the highway 167 exit. I am not sure of the
exit number but it must be exit 2 or 3. Head south on 167 and take the exit for
212th street. Take a right on 212th (heading west) and then a right on to
84th. Again, a left at the light puts you in the parking lot.
I stopped there just before the Christmas break and bought two vixen files
for a total of $4.00 and two rivet sets for about $4.00. Both rivet sets have
a slight angle near the tip and look alot like the EXTRA LONG BACK RIVETING
SET as shown on page 29 in Avery's 95 catalog. I took the longer one (about
10 inches long) into work and worked with our model shop to mill the rivet
cup flat. I plan to use it for backriveting my top main skins on my wing.
You can never predict what you will find there, but I (and my family) always
enjoy going there and will usually try to fit it in if we are going past
during their open hours. Happy shopping!
Doug Medema, dougm@physio-control.com, installing landing light in left wing.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Yablon <brian(at)lanart.com> |
| Subject: | How do HVLP systems work? |
How do the "turbine" HVLP systems work?
Campbell Hausfeld sells an HVLP system, in which a single hose runs to
the gun. I'm presuming that paint is supplied to the gun under high
pressure through this hose, and atomization occurs when it is squirted
out through a fine tip.
Is this the same technique used in the Croix system? I get the
impression the answer is no, since a blurb I saw on the Croix
specified something like "90 CFM @ 5 PSI". This implies to me
something akin to a centrifugal blower inside the box (the
"turbine"?).
I also heard that Eagle makes a nice HVLP system that comes with the
Accuspray gun, reputed to be the best HVLP gun in the business.
What makes these things work (besides money)? Do they work well? Any
experience with C-H, Croix or Eagle? Can anyone help me sort all this
out? Thanks in advance.
-Brian
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Brian Yablon Position: Hardware Engineer
LANart Corporation Internet: byablon(at)lanart.com
145 Rosemary Street, Suite D1 Ma-bell: (617) 444-1994 x206
Needham, MA 02194 FAX: (617) 444-3692
LANart: Difference by Design
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | B F Gibbons <bfgibbons(at)intellinet.com> |
Who's the person that came up with the plan for Van's pre-punched wing =
skins? Lunch is on me at OSH this year! (The same offer applies to =
George & Becki for their tapes, to Frank Justice for his instructions, =
and to Matt Dralle for maintaining this list).
Also, for those of you in the great north west heading to Lakeland this =
year... Look up Rogers, AR (ROG) on your flight planning software. =
We're only slightly out of your way. If you want to make it a two day =
trip we have a weekend lake house we'd be glad to let someone use on the =
way down and on the way back. Just let me know.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene Gottschalk (286-0708)" <geneg(at)rattler.gsfc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: Explosion while priming ? |
>Preface: I have heard of a few stories of people blowing themselves up when
>pouring gasoline from cans into airplanes and lawnmowers (via static
>electricity sparks).
A caution I've heard is to locate your compressor outside your spray booth
as the spark from the compressor motor could ignite the potentially
explosive atmosphere inside the spray booth. Just a thought. I wouldn't
think it's a problem if you spray outside.
Gene- 6a, finishing nits on wings, starting firewall.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dierks(at)austin.ibm.com |
| Subject: | Countersinking Wing Skins (fwd) |
I don't think you want to counter sink any of these pieces!!
If I recall correctly, you can dimple all the parts you listed.
I think if you check, you will find the nut plates that are to be
used here are the type that go under a dimpled skin as they have
the large depression in them (not flat as used on C/S skins).
You can dimple the spar flange just fine, esp with a pneumatic dimpler.
The only special tool you may need is the 'pop rivet dimpler' from
Avery. You need this on a few of the holes on the spar flange close
to the wing root due to the thickness of all the spar strips in that
area.
I just finished assemblying and flying my RV/4 and I recall noting
all the rivets around the tank and spar were dimpled.
Herman
> From: B F Gibbons <intellinet.com!bfgibbons(at)matronics.com>
> To: "'RV-LIST'"
> Subject: RV-List: Countersinking Wing Skins
> Date: Tue, 2 Jan 1996 09:34:50 -0600
>
> How does one countersink the wing skins where they overlap the spars =
> (main and rear) and the tank baffle? The way I see it I have at least =
> three options:
> 1) Machine countersink the skins (not my first choice).
> 2) Dimple the skin and the spar/baffle (I think the material is too =
> thick to dimple).
> 3) Dimple the skin and countersink the spar/baffle. (I'm not excited =
> about taking material out of the spar).
>
> What's the preferred method here?
>
> Thanks.
>
--
--------------------------------------------------------
*NOTICE for internet mail*: Any ideas or thoughts expressed here are my
own and are independent of my employer.
Herman Dierks, Dept. E54S, AWSD Austin, Texas
AIX Network Performance Measurement/Analysis
phone: TL 678-2831 outside: (512) 838-2831
ZIP: 9632 fax: 512-838-1801
mail: dierks(at)austin.ibm.com VM: DIERKS at AUSVM6
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: How do HVLP systems work? |
>
>
> How do the "turbine" HVLP systems work?
The turbine is like a fan and blows a lot of air, but without developing
much pressure. Since there isn't a big blast of pressurized air,
there isn't much overspray. Conventional guns end up with about
50% paint on project and 50% overspray. HVLP it's more like 90/10
when they are used correctly.
There is nothing wrong with a turbine setup. However, you have to
buy a turbine. Another option (since most of us already own
a compressor) is to buy an HVLP gun which runs off a compressor.
The special HVLP gun will convert high pressure low volume to high
volume low pressure at the gun; I don't really know the details
of how it works, but the result is you end up with a HVLP setup
off your compressor.
I have a Binks Mach 1. It's supposed to be one of the best
HVLP's. It's expensive at $300 plus cup and/or pressure pot;
I chose a pressure (not siphon) cup ($100) and a pressure pot
($90 for cheap one). It works fine. Although it's expensive, it's
still cheaper than the turbine route.
>
> Campbell Hausfeld sells an HVLP system, in which a single hose runs to
> the gun. I'm presuming that paint is supplied to the gun under high
> pressure through this hose, and atomization occurs when it is squirted
> out through a fine tip.
Sounds like a compressor drive HVLP. I don't know if this one is
any good.
>
> Is this the same technique used in the Croix system? I get the
> impression the answer is no, since a blurb I saw on the Croix
> specified something like "90 CFM @ 5 PSI". This implies to me
> something akin to a centrifugal blower inside the box (the
> "turbine"?).
Croix is famous for their turbine HVLPs, which is probably what
you're referring to above. I think they also now produce a
compressor version.
>
> I also heard that Eagle makes a nice HVLP system that comes with the
> Accuspray gun, reputed to be the best HVLP gun in the business.
>
> What makes these things work (besides money)? Do they work well? Any
> experience with C-H, Croix or Eagle? Can anyone help me sort all this
> out? Thanks in advance.
The place where I bought my Binks sold Croix and some others, the
salesman said the Binks was the best one he had. I don't have
specific model information on the Croix or others.
>
> -Brian
>
>
I have other posts which are in the archives (probably 6 months to
a year old). I'd suggest a case insensitive search on binks if
you're interested.
Good luck and email or call me if you have further questions.
Don
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Brian Yablon Position: Hardware Engineer
> LANart Corporation Internet: byablon(at)lanart.com
> 145 Rosemary Street, Suite D1 Ma-bell: (617) 444-1994 x206
> Needham, MA 02194 FAX: (617) 444-3692
>
> LANart: Difference by Design
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Don Karl karl@dg-rtp.dg.com (919)248-5915
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dougweil(at)mail.pressenter.com (Doug Weiler) |
| Subject: | Re: Tapering Wing Skins |
>Where the two skins, W-603 and W-602 overlap, drawing 21 Section B-B
>shows them tapering to fit.
>Question: How have other builders accomplished this? My thought
>would be to clamp two thick steel sheet metal pieces top and bottom
>as guides for my belt sander for initial shape then elbow grease the
>rest.
>Seems that others before me would have found the simple way to do
>this and make a neat job of it. Your thoughts would be appreciated.
>Thanks,
>Cecil Hatfield RV-6
>it California
Cecil:
Bill Benedict recommended this technique and it worked beautiful on my RV-4:
Cut a notch 1 1/2" wide by 1 1/4" high in the forward inboard corner of the
outboard skin. The inboard skin will then lay flush on the spar. The
result is hardly noticeable.
Doug
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
= Doug Weiler, pres. MN Wing Van's AirForce, RV-4 wings in progress
= 347 Krattley Lane
= Hudson, WI 54016
= 715-386-1239
= email: dougweil(at)mail.pressenter.com
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gerard Menendez <gpm(at)netcom.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: How do HVLP systems work? |
On Tue, 2 Jan 1996, Brian Yablon wrote:
>
> How do the "turbine" HVLP systems work?
>
The compressor moves a "H"igh "Volume" of air through the hose and out
the tip at a relatively "L"ow "Pressure". A side tube from the main
airway provides some pressure to the paint can forcing paint out the
needle valve at the front of the gun. Air jets at the sides of the
needle valve atomize the paint stream and carry material to the surface.
There is less overspray than with the conventional airless I used to use.
With my Campbell-Hausfield I have to over-thin regular alkyd enamels to
avoid a pebbled texture. No idea how it would spray materials you'll
need to use. I would describe it as high-end consumer rather than
professional equipment despite the claims on the box.
Gerard Menenedez
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ross Mickey <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Navaid Device installation and Use |
Our RV Builders group had a discussion on the Navaid Device last night. Two
builders have installed the servo on the outboard wing rib and used a long
pushrod to the bell crank. Access is easy through removable wingtips. I
don't have details but could provide if anyone is interested.
Three flying RVs (2-6's and 1-6A) are having difficulty getting their units
to track on the centerline. They all report off center tracking.
All three also reported unexplained radical turns requiring the immediate
decoupling of the units. One builder has installed a disconnect switch
right above the throttle for easy access. Anyone else experience this??
I noticed in the recent postings that one person had to change the GPS to
1/10 th of a mile from 4/10's and another said they had to be within 2-3
degrees of course to start tracking.
Two of the flying RV's also reported that the airplane must be retrimmed
after disengaging the unit. Some of the recent posting seem to alude to the
fact that their installations did not require this. What did you do to
prevent this???
Does Navaid have any competetors (price/value/reliability)??? Someone
mentioned S-Tech??? Any experience with these???
Ross Mickey
Skinning Fuse 6-A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | OrndorffG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Tire pressure |
Becki and I have found that 50 lbs presusure gives us good even tire wear on
both RV's,how ever Ihave talked to others that us less abd are happy ,I would
try different pressures and see which works best for you ....George & Becki
Orndorff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dierks(at)austin.ibm.com |
| Subject: | How do HVLP systems work? (fwd) |
Brian, there are two types of HVLP systems. The 'turbine' type
(like Croix) and the other type just uses a regular air compressor
with a HVLP spray gun. I think the EPA rules and California
laws have forced most spray gun makers to go to HVLP guns.
I think the Campbell Hausfeld HVLP gun you refered to is of this
later type and the single hose is just the air hose (does not
carry fluid).
I just painted my plane and I looked into a number of these guns.
Most of the HVLP guns that you can use with your regular air compressor
are designed to use more volume and lower pressures.
I ended up buying a Sharp HVLP gravity feed gun and used it with
my 2 HP compressor. It did have less overspray. I like the gravity
feed as you can use all the paint in the container (the cup is on top
of the gun).
You can now get HVLP in all three types of guns, gravity feed,
suction cup, and pressure feed. I decided to stay away from pressure
feed as you waste a lot of paint to fill up the hose and you use a
lot of cleaner to clean up the hose and gun.
From what I found, the German made 'Sata' guns are the most expensive
and highest quality. There are several Japanese guns also.
The Sharp gun lists for $250 and I got it for 210.
In summary, you can now get HVLP guns from all the major paint gun
vendors. Most of these work with your regular air compressor.
By the way, I was steered away from the Accuspray gun as the expert
I talke with here at Austin Laquer said they had some design problems
with the gun. I don't recall the details now. They may have fixed
the problems by now.
Herman
>
> How do the "turbine" HVLP systems work?
>
> Campbell Hausfeld sells an HVLP system, in which a single hose runs to
> the gun. I'm presuming that paint is supplied to the gun under high
> pressure through this hose, and atomization occurs when it is squirted
> out through a fine tip.
>
> Is this the same technique used in the Croix system? I get the
> impression the answer is no, since a blurb I saw on the Croix
> specified something like "90 CFM @ 5 PSI". This implies to me
> something akin to a centrifugal blower inside the box (the
> "turbine"?).
>
> I also heard that Eagle makes a nice HVLP system that comes with the
> Accuspray gun, reputed to be the best HVLP gun in the business.
>
> What makes these things work (besides money)? Do they work well? Any
> experience with C-H, Croix or Eagle? Can anyone help me sort all this
> out? Thanks in advance.
>
> -Brian
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Brian Yablon Position: Hardware Engineer
> LANart Corporation Internet: byablon(at)lanart.com
> 145 Rosemary Street, Suite D1 Ma-bell: (617) 444-1994 x206
> Needham, MA 02194 FAX: (617) 444-3692
>
> LANart: Difference by Design
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
Herman Dierks, Dept. E54S, AWSD Austin, Texas
mail: dierks(at)austin.ibm.com VM: DIERKS at AUSVM6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | OrndorffG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Countersinking Wing Skins |
The wing skins are too thin to counter sink for a 3/32 rivet, the thinest
skin that can be counter sinked for 3 /32 is .032 and the wing skins are only
.025. With this in mined that only leave dimpling the wing skins and counter
sinking the spar. The amount of material that you remove is very little no
need to worry. If you have any other question please call me at home if you
want (301)293-1505....George & Becki Orndorff
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Tire pressure |
Since 5/91 and about 590.8 hours on the RV6A,
have used 32 psi lbs, in the 500 x 5 main gear tires.
This seems to work for the 200 hours been getting,
per set of treads. Have gone to using the re-treads,
for about $25 per tire, my tires, they just put new
treads on them..
This is probably 260 landings or so.
Lot more short hops to $50 lunches than long
trips.
Believe tires say maximum 50 psi lbs, 120 mph,
and no more than 1,000 lbs per tire in weight.
This is strictly, my humble opinion.
Marvin N63TX ((Used to have N360TX, and boy
did that get conversation at a busy terminal.....so,
couldn't wait to change....63 that's how old I was when i
first flew)).
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert Busick <rbusick(at)nmsu.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Tapering Wing Skins |
As I read the plans you only need to taper the top corner of the skins.
According to the manual you can do the whole skin edge but it is not
recommeded as it will weaken the joint. I just used a scotchbrite wheel
7a type with a die grinder.
Bob Busick
RV-6
On Mon, 1 Jan 1996, CECIL T HATFIELD wrote:
> Where the two skins, W-603 and W-602 overlap, drawing 21 Section B-B
> shows them tapering to fit.
> Question: How have other builders accomplished this? My thought
> would be to clamp two thick steel sheet metal pieces top and bottom
> as guides for my belt sander for initial shape then elbow grease the
> rest.
> Seems that others before me would have found the simple way to do
> this and make a neat job of it. Your thoughts would be appreciated.
> Thanks,
> Cecil Hatfield RV-6
> it California
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert Busick <rbusick(at)nmsu.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Countersinking Wing Skins |
I dimpled both the skin and spar flanges, I had no problems with a hand
squeezer.
Bob Busick
On Tue, 2 Jan 1996, B F Gibbons wrote:
> How does one countersink the wing skins where they overlap the spars (main and
rear) and the tank baffle? The way I see it I have at least three options:
> 1) Machine countersink the skins (not my first choice).
> 2) Dimple the skin and the spar/baffle (I think the material is too thick to
dimple).
> 3) Dimple the skin and countersink the spar/baffle. (I'm not excited about
taking material out of the spar).
>
> What's the preferred method here?
>
> Thanks.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Edwards <CBE(at)synon.com> |
| Subject: | John Zidek wanting a ride in a RV-4 |
I will not except first born son (or daughter) for a ride (cannot afford
them anymore and an RV) but if you come to Ft-Worth or somewhere within
2:00 hours by RV from DFW will meet and give you a ride.
Call Don Blessing 817-560-0604
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tedd McHenry <tedd(at)idacom.hp.com> |
| Subject: | Bruce Patton's jig |
Bruce:
I'm interested in your jig. Please send me your email address.
Tedd McHenry
tedd(at)idacom.hp.com
(building workshop)
___________________________________________________________________________
Tedd McHenry
Technical Writer e-mail: tedd(at)idacom.hp.com
Hewlett-Packard (Canada) Compuserve: 75320,215
IDACOM Telecom Operation phone: (403) 430-2603
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada fax: (403) 430-2772
http://www.idacom.hp.com/web_doc2/People/internal/tedd/index.html
___________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rust47rg(at)one.net |
| Subject: | Re: Navaid Device installation and Use |
>Our RV Builders group had a discussion on the Navaid Device last night. Two
>builders have installed the servo on the outboard wing rib and used a long
>pushrod to the bell crank. Access is easy through removable wingtips. I
>don't have details but could provide if anyone is interested.
>
>Three flying RVs (2-6's and 1-6A) are having difficulty getting their units
>to track on the centerline. They all report off center tracking.
>
>All three also reported unexplained radical turns requiring the immediate
>decoupling of the units. One builder has installed a disconnect switch
>right above the throttle for easy access. Anyone else experience this??
>
>I noticed in the recent postings that one person had to change the GPS to
>1/10 th of a mile from 4/10's and another said they had to be within 2-3
>degrees of course to start tracking.
>
>Two of the flying RV's also reported that the airplane must be retrimmed
>after disengaging the unit. Some of the recent posting seem to alude to the
>fact that their installations did not require this. What did you do to
>prevent this???
>
>Does Navaid have any competetors (price/value/reliability)??? Someone
>mentioned S-Tech??? Any experience with these???
>
>Ross Mickey
>Skinning Fuse 6-A
Ross:
I have had a navaid in my 4 for over a year (Installed after aircraft was
flying) I have over 110 hours on it and love it. I have it coupled to the
nav in a KX155 and through a "Smart coupler" to a garmin 95xl.
The unit tracks as good as any certified unit I've used in both VOR tracking and
gps mode. The localizer is too sensitive in close but works fine outside of
say 7 miles.
I was VERY CAREFUL to follow the instructions. If you dont get the trim set
per specs and set the gain right you will have tracking problems. There are
two gain adjustments you MUST make. One in the servo and one in the head.
If you don't do it right it won't track.
I have never had an autopilot "snatch". Did your friends put in the comm
transmit interrupt connection? Is it snatching when they transmit?
I really like this unit. I think its the biggest bang for the buck.
Check with navaid, they were very helpful when I put mine in. Unfortunatly
all of my dealings were with Doug and as you may know he lost his life in a
crash (Not auto pilot related) last fall.
I'll look back through my prints and installation notes to see if I did anything
else.
Regards:
Rusty Gossard
N47RG RV-4 Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Chandler <mauser(at)Claris.COM> |
> No problem. Go to http://acro.harvard.edu/GA/search.html and look up
> the 'N' number you're interested in. If not there, then it's likely
> it's not assigned yet. Look up a few numbers and send in for the
> best ones.
Correction:
http://acro.harvard.edu/GA/search_nnr.html
They've rearranged things there.
--
"Wait a minute, you expect us innocent children to climb up dangerous
scaffolding and paint naked people all over a church? We'll do it!!"
-- Yakko Warner, Animaniacs
"Yeah, I've got ADD, you wanna make something of.... oooh, cool. Look!"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Hovan <hovan(at)apple.com> |
| Subject: | More Pre-punching... |
Happy New Year All!
I spoke with Van's before the holidays and it appears the direction
is to offer more "pre-punched" skins in the RV kits.
I was told that in the near future the tail kit will be sold with
pre-punched skins.
I asked how the holes are punched. They said that it is done with a
"punch press" and is fairly impressive operation to watch it work.
It actually moves the whole piece of metal around on a table rather
than moving the punch. It is supposed to run at a fairly high
speed. Van's currently has a third party perfomring the punching
since "punch presses" are expensive. The Vans representative said
they are looking into buying a machine since they will be punching
the tail kit in the near future.
This whole subject was started since I believe there is an error in
the plans in the Vertical Stabilizer dimensions. Using the formula
a squared+ b squared = c squared for triangles it appears that the
11 1/8 dimension shown near the tip rib may be in error. It caused
me to have a difficult time getting the skin overhand on the spar at
this end when the 82.5 degree angle is properly achieved. This will
all be history when the tail skins are shipped pre-punched.
fyi,
John Hovan
hovan(at)apple.com
http://atlantis.austin.apple.com/people.pages/jhovan/home.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Chandler <mauser(at)Claris.COM> |
| Subject: | Re: trim tabs: what determines which side? (fwd) |
This was on rec.aviation.homebuilt, in a discussion about which side of the
tail the trim tab should be on. Naturally, everybody had different
explanations (like P-Factor), and pointed out aircraft that were the opposite
of what the last person said. Then the topic of RVs came up, and Ron
Wanttaja let loose with this one. I thought you might like it.
> Ron's Top Ten Reasons Why RVs have the Trim Tab on the "Wrong" Side:
>
> 10. Accidental US use of plans originally meant for Australians.
> 9. Covers up embarrasing "Plastic Airplanes Suck" sign etched onto
> the left elevator skin.
> 8. Plans were supposed to say, "Your MILITARY right."
> 7. Most RV pilots "dress left", if you're familiar with the tailoring
> term. Fly Baby pilots, on the other hand, tell the tailor to
> "Just leave the knees extra baggy." (14 quatloos to whoever can tell
> me where I stole *that* from! :-)
> 6. Handy shelf for setting your license down on when the FAA Ramp
> Checker nails you.
> 5. Van DOESN'T use a trim tab on the elevator; presence is sign
> that builder accidentally switched an aileron and elevator.
> 4. Not a trim tab at all, but just a vortex generator so all loose rivets
> form an attractive spiral in the prop wash.
> 3. Ron's original theory was wrong (whooops! Scratch that :-).
> 2. Two words: Corrolis Effect.
>
> And now, the Number One Reason Why RVs Have the Trim Tab on the
> "Wrong" Side:
>
> 1. 'Cause Van likes flying inverted so much :-).
>
> Ron Wanttaja
> wanttaja(at)halcyon.com
--
"Wait a minute, you expect us innocent children to climb up dangerous
scaffolding and paint naked people all over a church? We'll do it!!"
-- Yakko Warner, Animaniacs
"Yeah, I've got ADD, you wanna make something of.... oooh, cool. Look!"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
Thanks to all who responded. I'm going to try the Web page(s) and then
double-check a couple with those of you who have access to directories. It's
incredible how much info there is, and how many helpful people there are on
this mail list.
-- Ed Bundy
ebundy2620(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Explosion while priming ? |
>I have purchased one of those paint zip guns that works by syphoning to
>variprime my parts. I noticed that the paint only flows through plastic
>parts and is stored in paper cups. Couldn't there still be an electrostatic
>potential between the paint and the metal being painted?
>
>Does anybody out their go to the trouble of grounding their paint sprayers
>and parts their spraying?
>The paper cups fall off the zip gun so I took a small glass jar with a metal
>cup lid and riveted to the zip gun. Is this safe considering the above?
I don't think there's any potential danger with paint guns, I think it has to
do with gasoline being FAR more volatile than primer. However, I don't know
why the mfgr reccomends against glass containers.
I too, had trouble with cups coming off of the zipgun (which is one of my
favorite tools) I found that the reason the cup comes off is because of the
gun deforming the lip of the cup when you press it on. Press the cup on,
then rotate it 20 degrees or so. Now the ears will be holding "virgin" cup
rim and won't fall off.
As for the waxed cups - use 'em for coffee but not for painting. That primer
is pretty acidic and will eat some of that wax into the primer (quite a
conflict of interest). The wax also comes off and clogs the opening of the
nozzle. I found a great cup locally; it's a Solo #116FS (it's got "french
fries" written on the outside) No wax, and it works great. I think it may
be a little deeper too, but it has the same mouth diameter.
-- Ed Bundy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Day" <sday(at)pharmcomp.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Countersinking Wing Skins |
>How does one countersink the wing skins where they overlap the spars (main
and rear) and the tank baffle? The way I see it I have at least three options:
>1) Machine countersink the skins (not my first choice).
>2) Dimple the skin and the spar/baffle (I think the material is too thick
to dimple).
>3) Dimple the skin and countersink the spar/baffle. (I'm not excited
about taking material out of the spar).
If I remember correctly, there are two rows of nutplates in question.
1 is the row closest to the trailing edge:
I dimpled the skins and counter sunk the spar. The nutplates specified by
the plans have a deep dish to accept dimpled skins.
2 is the row closest to the leading edge:
I'm not yet clear about the nutplates on the tank baffle. If I remember
correctly, they are the type that must have the skins countersunk??
I also found this problem with the strip that connects the tanks skins to
the outboard leading edge skins. The nutplates that are specified do not
allow for countersunk screw holes??? Maybe I just misread the plans, I'll
double check tomorrow. Taking the day off work to work hehe I mean have
fun with my left wing hehe.
-Steve Day
sday(at)pharmcomp.com
(CK ID - RV6a RV for short)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Aileron Brackets |
Dear George and Becki:
Merry Christmas and happy New Year!
Curiosity will kill me one day, but I have to ask. Where you near
Martinsburg airport last Friday afternoon, at about 5:00pm? I would swear
that I saw your new RV whiz by me at about 2,000 feet. It looked simply
georgeous and fast! I was headed to Frederick from Martinsburg when I saw
the airplane. Let me know if it was your airplane.
Thanks,
Fernando
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David A. Barnhart" <barnhart(at)crl.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Countersinking Wing Skins |
On Tue, 2 Jan 1996, B F Gibbons wrote:
> How does one countersink the wing skins where they overlap the
> spars (main and rear) and the tank baffle?
Where the skins and spars mate, dimple everything. Both spars dimple easily.
Where the tank skin mates to the tank baffle, countersink.
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
rv-6 sn 23744
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Countersinking Wing Skins |
>
>
>On Tue, 2 Jan 1996, B F Gibbons wrote:
>
>> How does one countersink the wing skins where they overlap the
>> spars (main and rear) and the tank baffle?
>
>Where the skins and spars mate, dimple everything. Both spars dimple easily.
>
>Where the tank skin mates to the tank baffle, countersink.
>
>Best Regards,
>Dave Barnhart
>rv-6 sn 23744
>
>B F Gibbons: When you machine countersink the front row on the tank
(baffle area) don't forget to clamp a piece of thicker material with a hole
the size of your pilot on the back side to hold the pilot in position. If
you countersink without this there won't be enough material to hold the
pilot and you'll end up with a sloppy hole for your # 8 screws. Bob
Skinner RV-6 (Hi Dave)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
| Subject: | Re: How do HVLP systems work? |
>
>How do the "turbine" HVLP systems work?
>
>Campbell Hausfeld sells an HVLP system, in which a single hose runs to
>the gun. I'm presuming that paint is supplied to the gun under high
>pressure through this hose, and atomization occurs when it is squirted
>out through a fine tip.
>
>Is this the same technique used in the Croix system? I get the
>impression the answer is no, since a blurb I saw on the Croix
>specified something like "90 CFM @ 5 PSI". This implies to me
>something akin to a centrifugal blower inside the box (the
>"turbine"?).
>
>I also heard that Eagle makes a nice HVLP system that comes with the
>Accuspray gun, reputed to be the best HVLP gun in the business.
>
>What makes these things work (besides money)? Do they work well? Any
>experience with C-H, Croix or Eagle? Can anyone help me sort all this
>out? Thanks in advance.
>
>-Brian
>
>
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
>Brian Yablon Position: Hardware Engineer
>LANart Corporation Internet: byablon(at)lanart.com
>145 Rosemary Street, Suite D1 Ma-bell: (617) 444-1994 x206
>Needham, MA 02194 FAX: (617) 444-3692
>
> LANart: Difference by Design
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Brian, I have experience with the Croix. I bought it after seeing the
demonstration at Oshkosh a couple of times. I only had a 2 hp compressor
and didn't want to spend the big bucks for one large enough to run a spray
gun continously. Also, the 110 volt aspect appealed to me as I intended to
primer and paint my house, so I thought that I could spread the cost over
many different jobs. I also intended to restore a 1972 Pontiac Grand Prix
the we bought new ($ 4,540.00) but decided I'd rather build another new RV
than restore an old car. I also painted an old steam locomotive for the
county hisorical society (they're a lot bigger than they look). There are a
lot of home projects you can use it on and it is very portable.
I've been mostly satisfied with the Croix although the Accuspray gun
looks easier to clean. You do save a noticible amount of paint and there is
very little overspray in the air. I primed the inside of the RV and
finished the instrument panel and all visible surfaces in the cabin.
I had a professional painter (who happened to use a Croix) paint the
outside (I helped on the prep work). After painting the inside of the RV I
decided that the way I mess around, I'd better have a pro paint it or it
would be another 3 years before I got it flying. We painted when it was
90-95 degrees and used the warmest weather reducer that PPG made. The paint
did have some orange peel. It was not real bad and I've had a lot of
compliments on the paint job, but if you look closely, you can see it
(especially under florescent lights) The painter said to bring it back
after it cured and he would rub it out. I've heard from others that the
HVLP will orange peel quicker than a conventional spray gun. The turbine
tend to heat the air and I mentioned to my painter that perhaps additonal
lengths of hose coiled in a 50 drum full of cool water might drop the temp
and help the paint flow out a little better. I'd be interested in hearing
from anyone who was able to put down a finish that flowed out properly.
Perhaps another paint system would work out better. I used PPG Durethaned
on DP epoxy primer. Another advantage to the HVLP with a turbine (they make
HVLP guns that use conventional air) is you don't have to worry about oil
contamination in your air line. Bob Skinner RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ross Mickey <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com> |
>Return-Path:
>Subject: Navaid A/P
>To: rmickey(at)ix8.ix.netcom.com
>Date: Tue, 2 Jan 1996 12:00:07 -0800 (PST)
>From: "Earl Brabandt" <cwbraban(at)ichips.intel.com>
>
>Ross,
>
>Thanks for the Navaid posting. I'm at the point in my fuse
>construction where I need to consider my autopilot installation.
>I'd be very interested in the wingtip installation details
>because my wings are closed and it appears next to impossible
>to fit the servo by the bellcrank at this time. The alternative
>is to fit it in the fuse with the control column, but reports
>of elevator coupling and interference with Van's bungee
>aileron trim have been reported by builders using this option.
>If I elect to mount it in the fuse, I'll need to buy it soon
>because I'm close to installing my sticks and controls. Are any
>of the wingtip installations flying? Are they reporting elevator
>coupling requiring trim adjustments?
>
>The next closest thing to the Navaid would be the S-Tec or Brittain
>wing levelers. Last I looked, they were about twice the price
>(although I've heard that Navaid raised their prices considerably)
>and almost twice the weight. They may still be worth looking at
>though because they've been in business for a long time.
>
>I've talked to a couple of RV builders flying around here with
>the Navaid and found no complaints. I think they both use the
>standard wing servo location. The reports of uncommanded roll
>has me concerned.
>
>Cal (RV-6, N66VR in progress)
>
I talked with the person who installed the Navaid in the wingtip and here is
what I found.
Refer to Drawing 19a Side View Rib Station 73.5
1. There is a spacer between the two halves of the bellcrank which show up
to the right of the 3/16 bore, 3/8 male shank HEIM M3614M connector. He
drilled out the outboard rivet holding this spcer in place and repaced it
with a #3 bolt. (He had to use this location to get the maximum travel with
the avaialable action on the Navaid crank)
2. He connected a Stud end bearing like the one used on the Flap (Aurora
CM-4MS plans #40)
3. This he connected to a piece of tubing which is made of the same
material as the tube used to attach the bellcrank to the aileron (1/2 x .035
4130 steel tube). The other end was attached to the last hole of the Navaid
crank.
4. The Servo was mounted on a piece of 1/16" palte which was attached to
outboard side of the outboard rib. It was mounted so the Navaid crank was
located over the lighting hole.
Thats what I know!!!
Ross Mickey
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ross Mickey <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com> |
>Return-Path:
>Subject: Navaid A/P
>To: rmickey(at)ix8.ix.netcom.com
>Date: Tue, 2 Jan 1996 12:00:07 -0800 (PST)
>From: "Earl Brabandt" <cwbraban(at)ichips.intel.com>
>
>Ross,
>
>Thanks for the Navaid posting. I'm at the point in my fuse
>construction where I need to consider my autopilot installation.
>I'd be very interested in the wingtip installation details
>because my wings are closed and it appears next to impossible
>to fit the servo by the bellcrank at this time. The alternative
>is to fit it in the fuse with the control column, but reports
>of elevator coupling and interference with Van's bungee
>aileron trim have been reported by builders using this option.
>If I elect to mount it in the fuse, I'll need to buy it soon
>because I'm close to installing my sticks and controls. Are any
>of the wingtip installations flying? Are they reporting elevator
>coupling requiring trim adjustments?
>
>The next closest thing to the Navaid would be the S-Tec or Brittain
>wing levelers. Last I looked, they were about twice the price
>(although I've heard that Navaid raised their prices considerably)
>and almost twice the weight. They may still be worth looking at
>though because they've been in business for a long time.
>
>I've talked to a couple of RV builders flying around here with
>the Navaid and found no complaints. I think they both use the
>standard wing servo location. The reports of uncommanded roll
>has me concerned.
>
>Cal (RV-6, N66VR in progress)
>
I talked with the person who installed the Navaid in the wingtip and here is
what I found.
Refer to Drawing 19a Side View Rib Station 73.5
1. There is a spacer between the two halves of the bellcrank which show up
to the right of the 3/16 bore, 3/8 male shank HEIM M3614M connector. He
drilled out the outboard rivet holding this spcer in place and repaced it
with a #3 bolt. (He had to use this location to get the maximum travel with
the avaialable action on the Navaid crank)
2. He connected a Stud end bearing like the one used on the Flap (Aurora
CM-4MS plans #40)
3. This he connected to a piece of tubing which is made of the same
material as the tube used to attach the bellcrank to the aileron (1/2 x .035
4130 steel tube). The other end was attached to the last hole of the Navaid
crank.
4. The Servo was mounted on a piece of 1/16" palte which was attached to
outboard side of the outboard rib. It was mounted so the Navaid crank was
located over the lighting hole.
Thats what I know!!!
Ross Mickey
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gil(at)rassp.hac.com (Gil Alexander) |
| Subject: | Re: Manual Elevator Trim on RV-6 |
>,
>>
>> I also have some play in the cable (about 1/8"), and I wonder how
>> aggravating that will actually be in flight. Won't aerodynamic loads on the
>> tail keep the slack taken up? What about the possibility of trim tab
>> flutter? Is anybody else happy (or unhappy) with the manual system? I
>> really want to keep everything as simple and reliable as possible, but it
>> also has to be functional.
>> If there is a compelling reason for the electric trim (other than the
>> obvious "coolness" factor) please let me know.
>>
>> Thanks and Happy New Year,
>>
>> Danny Kight
>> kightdm(at)carol.net
>> RV-6 trying to finish empennage
>
>
>I built the empennage for manual trim but decided to convert to
>electric for all the reasons you give. Conversion looked messy so I
>asked Van about it when he was in Australia in March. His advice was
>that manual has no problems, but to convert, leave the elevator setup
>as for manual, use an RV4 throttle cable to run back to the servo
>mounted behind F606 bulkhead. This gets rid of the 180 degree bend
>which is the cause of the slop
>
>Bill Benedict was in Sydney a couple of weeks ago. He is confident that
>mechanical has no problems. I have flown in two RV6s which seem to
>have no problems, but Simon Pike's second RV6 (with all the "wish I
>hadda" items included) has electric.
>
>You choose!
>Regards
>Peter
>
>Peter Bennett
Some local builders have also used this "short cable" technique,
but used an even shorter cable and mounted the trim servo on the flat plate
under the horiz. stab. behind the F-609 bulkhead. Maintenance is now
easier since it is all accessible when the fiberglas fairing at the base of
the fin is removed.
A custom length cable does have to be made though.
This is the way I am going - electrical cable installed, but tail
surfaces, servo and mech. cable still need to be installed.
Gil Alexander, RV6A, #20701
gil(at)rassp.hac.com canopy frame complete. All skins now drilled!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JPallist(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Notching HS Flange So Elevator Control Horn Can Move |
Just mounted my HS on fuselage last night... which brought back memories of
asking myself the same question about notching the aft edges of the h.s. spar
channel to get the required 30 degrees of up travel. Yes, I did notch my
channel edge (only about 1/8" cut out) where the elevator horns hit the
channel... but certainly NOT the reinforcement flanges themselves, which lie
inside the spar channel. Never-the-less, here are some tips I would like to
pass on:
1. Be sure you are measuring angular deflection of the elevator
center-line... NOT the angle of the elevator skin surface (makes a big
difference!). Here's where an electronic level (e.g., "Smart Level") is
useful... as you can simply add the starting angle of the elevator surface to
the total deflection angle of the surface in the down position.
2. If you are just starting on the HS, look carefully at picture #4 on page
6-29 of the construction manual (andat plans sheet #34)... notice the two
holes in each end of the horiz. surface of the 1 X 1" angle in the picture,
these holes are used to bolt the front spars of the HS to the fuselage
longerons. So... don't get carried away in cutting and filing away the
horiz. face of this angle (which you do to allow bending the vertical faces
so they will mate with the front HS spar channels). I did... and filed away
extra metal (to be "sure" to avoid stress fractures when bending the vertical
faces)... metal I wish was still there now, as I only have minimal edge
clearance for the AN3 bolts that attach the ends of this angle to the
longerons. As described in a recent RVator... you can make up a doubler, if
you end up without enough edge clearance. In my case, I gained some extra
edge clearance by mounting my HS 1/8" farther aft on the fuselage than
planned (and adding 1/8" plate spacers behind the rear HS spar attach
flanges). This worked out fine... although, I did have to file about 1/8"
off the aft edges of my elevator horns... again to get the full 30 degrees of
"up" travel. Yet another lesson in the saying that "every minor change from
the plans generates three more down the line".
Happy New Year,
John Pallister
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JPallist(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Tapering Wing Skins |
Did not taper the join on mine... and the overlap is hardly noticeable.
Seems unnecessary to me (as well as concerns about durability of
feather-edges in metals). Also, remember that the taper only applies to the
overlap at the corners of the two skin panels at the spar and not to the
entire overlap.
Cheers, John Pallister (attaching tail to fuselage).
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Portland Oregon Visit |
I don't want to Impose on anyone but...
I will be in Portland Oregon over the coming weekend... holed up in the Holiday
Inn at
the colliseum. I'm coming out of Houston Tx., visiting LA then Portland for a week,
ostensibly visiting some of our company offices, and coincidentally getting some
RV6A
time and my Biennial with Mike Seager up at Vans. I was supposed to fly with Mike
over
the weekend but he has had to cancell until later in the week due to a prior commitment.
This means I'll be sat in my room... all alone... football over... no RV in the
garage...nothing to build .. ,Sob..Sob!
So! If any of you local builders or Flyers would like to meet / need help on the
project
/ want to go flying / want to have a beer or dinner or just talk RV's - I'd be
happy to
meet.
Let me know through the list, or leave a message at the hotel.. I arrive about
7PM on
friday next (the 5th) the number is 503-235-2100
Thanks in advance... Rob Lee
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Milne <milne(at)dme.nt.gov.au> |
joining
Hi I'm building an RV6. How do I log into the group?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Manual Elevator Trim on RV-6 |
> Some local builders have also used this "short cable" technique,
>but used an even shorter cable and mounted the trim servo on the flat plate
>under the horiz. stab. behind the F-609 bulkhead. Maintenance is now
>easier since it is all accessible when the fiberglas fairing at the base of
>the fin is removed.
> A custom length cable does have to be made though.
> This is the way I am going - electrical cable installed, but tail
>surfaces, servo and mech. cable still need to be installed.
>
>Gil Alexander, RV6A, #20701
>gil(at)rassp.hac.com canopy frame complete. All skins now drilled!!
>
>
>Gil: What kind of cable would you use? Could you use, for example,
left-over cable from shortening a carb heat or mixture cable? You could put
one of those "collet" wire grips on both ends and use threaded clevis forks.
This installation would sure make the elevator lighter. The only problem
that I can see is, that when the elevator moves up or down from neutral,
that this would pull on the servo unit--(maybe not, as long as there was
travel left on the trim tab. I guess maybe that when the elevator is moved
to an extreme, there would be no pressure on the servo if there was movement
left on the trim tab.) thanks, Bob Skinner RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KUKULSKIM(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: How do HVLP systems work? |
Re: Your questions about Eaglespray HVLP system.
I purchased an Eaglespray unit with the Accuspray gun (the gun was rated a
top design achievement by Popular Science magazine in 1993, I believe). I
bought it through Mel Turcanik from a Sport Aviation ad, and he offered a
discount to EAA members.
I have been very pleased with its performance to date. I have only primed
with it so far (both Variprime and PPG DP-48) and have had excellent results.
Cleaning the gun is about on a par with conventional spray equipment.
Scott McDaniel in Phoenix painted his very nice RV-6A using a Croix HVLP (
owned by the Arizona council of EAA Chapters) and PPG paint and got excellent
results.
If you don't already have the big compressor needed for the good HVLP guns,
the turbine systems are a good choice, but they are not cheap - figure
$600-700.
Hope this helps.
Mike Kukulski (KUKULSKIM(at)aol.com)
RV-4 Fuselage Innards
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mkerzie(at)qnet.com (Mark G. Kerzie) |
| Subject: | Another Belly Skin Question |
Do I dimple(!?!) or countersink the F/604 bulkhead flange when installing
the bottom skins? This is the area where I understand many folks are having
rivets work loose.
My current plans are to dimple the skins and countersink the flange.
Mark G. Kerzie - RV-6
mkerzie(at)qnet.com
Installing forward fuselage side skins
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mkerzie(at)qnet.com (Mark G. Kerzie) |
The plans are a little confusing when specifying the rivet size for those
rivets used to attach the side skin to the F/604 bulkhead. The bulkhead
detail says to use 1/8 rivets at and "near" the spar cutout; the skin detail
says to use 3/32 at and "near" the top longeron and down. There is no
mention as to where 3/32 stop and 1/8 start.
I went ahead and made ALL 1/8. Is this OK?
Couldn't resist doing a test fit of the right wing into the fuselage last
night. Fit just like it was supposed to. Oh, what a relief!
Mark G. Kerzie - RV-6
mkerzie(at)qnet.com
Installing forward fuselage side skins
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WStucklen(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Drill Bushing -Spar & Rib Reinforcing Angle Brackets |
>
>What did you use as a drill bushing for the 3/16 diameter holes in the spar
>where the AN bolts attach the rib reinforcing angles?
>
>The plans recommend using a bushing so as not to enlarge the factory
>drilled holes in the spar. This drilling step is where the rib reinforcing
>angles (Rib Attach Angles W-630) are clamped in place on the spar and 2
>holes for the AN bolts are drilled into the rib reinforcing angles using
>the existing holes in the main spare as a guide.
>
>I am not familiar with bushings. Are they available at a hardware store?
>
>Did you not use a bushing but drilled carefully?
>
>Thanks - 6A Working on the Wings,
>
>Bob
>
>
Bob:
Go down to your local auto parts store and buy some steel brake line
material. You'll find that it's OD is 3/16". Cut to the length that you need,
even solder/weld a handle on it, then drill out to #30 using a long drill
bit. The result is a neat sleave that you can put thru the spar and sparbox
to drill the lading gear attachments. You can also use a long flexible #30
drill bit when drilling these holes without worrying about bit alignment.
I did try the brass tubing route, but found that the tubing ID would be
quickly elongated when using a long flexable bit.
Good Luck!
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV 638 Hrs IFR
wstucklen(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DerFlieger(at)aol.com |
writes:
>You said:
>
>"Fiver" , "niner" , and "zero" also are particularly hard to distort.
Donald,
Correct you are. "Fife" (not fiver) is used to distinguish from "niner".
The "Aeronautical (formerly "Airmans") Information Manual" has a nice
write-up on radio communications, phraseology and techniques, including
correct phonetic pronunciation.
Also mentioned there is a note that you may omit the word "experimental"
after initial callup. Here in Austin, our controllers have a list of
"common" experimentals, including 16 types, 4 of which are our RV's. Its
perfectly OK with them to completely omit "experimental" in any
communications with them.
Jim Stugart
DerFlieger(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WStucklen(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Parking Brakes |
On the subject of parking brakes, I have the following thoughts. I've
installed the right side brake option in my RV-6A, and have also installed an
firewall mounted resivor. This was done by bringing the low pressure side of
the brake pistons up to a tee, then feeding it into the resivor.
Given this type of setup, it should be possible to put a parking brake
piston (single) in the feed line from the resivor.
Any comments on this approach?
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV 638 Hrs
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WStucklen(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Manual Elevator Trim on RV-6 |
>> Some local builders have also used this "short cable" technique,
>>but used an even shorter cable and mounted the trim servo on the flat plate
>>under the horiz. stab. behind the F-609 bulkhead. Maintenance is now
>>easier since it is all accessible when the fiberglas fairing at the base of
>>the fin is removed.
>> A custom length cable does have to be made though.
>> This is the way I am going - electrical cable installed, but tail
>>surfaces, servo and mech. cable still need to be installed.
>>
>>Gil Alexander, RV6A, #20701
>>gil(at)rassp.hac.com canopy frame complete. All skins now
>drilled!!
>>
>>
>>Gil: What kind of cable would you use? Could you use, for example,
>left-over cable from shortening a carb heat or mixture cable? You could put
>one of those "collet" wire grips on both ends and use threaded clevis forks.
>This installation would sure make the elevator lighter. The only problem
>that I can see is, that when the elevator moves up or down from neutral,
>that this would pull on the servo unit--(maybe not, as long as there was
>travel left on the trim tab. I guess maybe that when the elevator is moved
>to an extreme, there would be no pressure on the servo if there was movement
>left on the trim tab.) thanks, Bob Skinner RV-6
>
>
I installed my elevator trim in this manner also. I had a custom cable,
made by the same people that make Van's cables, make a short one that
installs into the horz stab in the same manner as the manual trim cable. The
servo is mounted on a bracket behind the F-609 bulkhead. I did install
another bracket on the horz stab spare where the cable feeds through ( Hole
location same as in the plans). The bracket allows the new cable to be
mounted at an angle throught the spare, so it is a straight line to the
servo.
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV 638 Hrs
wstucklen(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Miner" <dougm(at)qm.WV.TEK.COM> |
| Subject: | Re: -to Rob Lee"PDX Visit" |
RE>:to Rob Lee"PDX Visit" 1/3/96 8:46 PM
Rob Lee huh? ever live in Montana? I knew a Rob Lee back in the mid 70's
anyway,
EAA Chapter 105 has a butt kicking breakfast on the first Saturday of every month...
just so happens to be the very day you are key holed... wanna go?
It's at Twin Oaks Airpark not very dang far from where you will be staying...
email me for directions... you will meet many of the locals and their airplanes
no doubt.
D~
dougm(at)pogo.wv.tek.com
--------------------------------------
Date: 1/2/96 7:47 PM
From: rv-list(at)matronics.COM
I don't want to Impose on anyone but...
I will be in Portland Oregon over the coming weekend... holed up in the Holiday
Inn at
the colliseum. I'm coming out of Houston Tx., visiting LA then Portland for a week,
ostensibly visiting some of our company offices, and coincidentally getting some
RV6A
time and my Biennial with Mike Seager up at Vans. I was supposed to fly with Mike
over
the weekend but he has had to cancell until later in the week due to a prior commitment.
This means I'll be sat in my room... all alone... football over... no RV in the
garage...nothing to build .. ,Sob..Sob!
So! If any of you local builders or Flyers would like to meet / need help on the
project
/ want to go flying / want to have a beer or dinner or just talk RV's - I'd be
happy to
meet.
Let me know through the list, or leave a message at the hotel.. I arrive about
7PM on
friday next (the 5th) the number is 503-235-2100
Thanks in advance... Rob Lee
------------------ RFC822 Header Follows ------------------
From: hic.net!av8r(at)matronics.COM
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 1996 20:53:45 -0600
Subject: RV-List: Portland Oregon Visit
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: -to Rob Lee"PDX Visit" |
--
>>>> RE>:to Rob Lee"PDX Visit" 1/3/96 8:46
PM
**** Command 're>:to' not recognized.
>>>>
>>>> Rob Lee huh? ever live in Montana? I knew a Rob Lee back in the mid 70's
**** Command 'rob' not recognized.
>>>>
>>>> anyway,
**** Command 'anyway,' not recognized.
>>>>
>>>> EAA Chapter 105 has a butt kicking breakfast on the first Saturday of every
month... just so happens to be the very day you are key holed... wanna go?
**** Command 'eaa' not recognized.
>>>> It's at Twin Oaks Airpark not very dang far from where you will be staying...
email me for directions... you will meet many of the locals and their airplanes
no doubt.
**** Command 'it's' not recognized.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> D~
**** Command 'd~' not recognized.
>>>> dougm(at)pogo.wv.tek.com
**** Command 'dougm(at)pogo.wv.tek.com' not recognized.
>>>> --------------------------------------
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Boudro <dboudro(at)nmia.com> |
| Subject: | Question for RV-6 builders |
I've got a question for the 6 builders. How does Van recommend you
terminate the brake line at the caliper? Does he suggest going all
the way to the caliper with AL tube or using a small piece of flex
between the caliper and AL tube?
I decided to use AL tube and have already run it inside my fiberglass
gear leg farings to the caliper; after hearing of the break in the
tube the other day on the net I've been trying to decide if I should
go ahead and replace the tube and use flex at the bottom. This would
mean cutting the farings but... TIA
Dan Boudro
RV-4 N9167Z
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | steve_kimura(at)om.cv.hp.com |
| Subject: | HS Rear spar question |
Item Subject: cc:Mail Text
Hi gang; here's my first real builder's question:
Starting my HS spar. One of my 409s fit into the 603 channels just
fine, but the other one is way off, no matter how I try it. Comparing
the two 409s, they're nowhere near the same shape. My friend's 409s
are identical.
If I have one side against the flange, the other end is at least 1/8"
away from the flange.
I emailed Van's, and Tom said to just cleco the center in, bend the
ends so they're flush against the flange, and keep drilling/clecoing
outward. The pre-load should have no effect.
I suppose I might try it, but the question is: would you?
Maybe I'm being too anal about this, but I don't want to be worring
about it for the rest of my life.
Steve Kimura
skimura(at)cv.hp.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: HS Rear spar question |
Steve:
I probably would send it back and get another part, or else grind it to
fit, assuming you don't have to remove too much mat'l. It's easy for me
to say "I'd get a new part" since I live close to Van's though....
I had something similar happen to me with a wing LE skin -- the bend at
the nose was off by at least 1/2" and I really had to work to force the
skin to conform to the ribs. I talked to Tom about this and he showed
me a stack of LE skins that were bent exactly the same and said if I
REALLY wanted they could bend another one special for me (although I'll
bet they went back and changed the way they bent them after I brought
it to their attention). Anyhow, he convinced me to just use it and said it
would be fine. So I did and made it work but I kind of wished I had insisted
-- it just didn't sit right with me forcing parts into shape that much.
Also especially this early in your project, you want things to be RIGHT.
That's my two cents worth anyhow.
Randall Henderson
RV-6
> Hi gang; here's my first real builder's question:
>
> Starting my HS spar. One of my 409s fit into the 603 channels just
> fine, but the other one is way off, no matter how I try it. Comparing
> the two 409s, they're nowhere near the same shape. My friend's 409s
> are identical.
>
> If I have one side against the flange, the other end is at least 1/8"
> away from the flange.
>
> I emailed Van's, and Tom said to just cleco the center in, bend the
> ends so they're flush against the flange, and keep drilling/clecoing
> outward. The pre-load should have no effect.
>
> I suppose I might try it, but the question is: would you?
>
> Maybe I'm being too anal about this, but I don't want to be worring
> about it for the rest of my life.
>
> Steve Kimura
> skimura(at)cv.hp.com
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larson, Joe" <Joseph.P.Larson(at)nmb.norwest.com> (Joe Larson) |
| Subject: | IFR flight in our homebuilts |
I've just started my IFR training, and I've started to think about the
equipment I want to put in my 6A's panel when it becomes time. I want to
be able to fly IFR approaches.
In order to fly IFR in our airplanes, does anyone know how much of our
equipment must be TSO'd for IFR flight? We experimenters get away with
installing a lot of non-TSO'd equipment.
One of the big questions -- if I install a non-TSO'd GPS, can I do GPS
approaches? What if I install a TSO'd GPS, but install it myself? (I
understand production airplanes must have their installation performed
my an approved-for-IFR-installation shop.)
Does anyone understand why a GPS that is TSO'd for IFR is so expensive?
Is it the certification process that's expensive, or is the actual box
that much more capable?
-J
--
Joe Larson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | cn755(at)freenet.carleton.ca (Catherine Lamport) |
Reading with interest the discussion of parking valves purchased
from Spruce. Three are shown in catalogue - Cleveland, Matco and
Scott. Which one seems best suited for RV6A, dual brake install-
ation.
Cathy and Dale Lamport
Nepean (Ottawa), Ontario, Canada
cn755(at)freenet.carleton.ca
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | twg(at)blink.ho.att.com (Tom Goeddel(x5278)) |
| Subject: | Fuel Tank Slosh Removal |
Hi all,
About 3 weeks after I finished the left fuel tank, Van's came out with the
recommendation not to use slosh any more on the fuel tanks due to several
instances of chunks peeling off. I made the bold decision then not to
do anything until I got ready to rivet the right tank. Well, that time
is just about here. I think I will try to open the hummer up by cutting
access holes in the rear baffle on each bay, somehow cleaning out the
lovingly applied slosh, and then closing the thing back up. A few
questions:
1. How do I get the inevitable metal shavings that will be generated
out of the tank?
2. What is the best way of removing the slosh? I know the part about
"Pour in a gallon of and
shake it all about" but how about some real world experience
about what happens when you do this? What is left after the
solvent is poured off? How do you remove the residue? Paper towels?
Rags? ScotchBrite? Hammer and chisel? Will there
be any suprises? How long do you have to get the crud out after
soaking with solvent (I assume I'll want to do the solvent bit
before cutting open gapping holes in the back)? How do you pour
out the old solvent without having a toxic waste emergency
response team sent out to your house?
3. Is making an .040 reinforcing ring for the outside of the baffle
ok (the ring on the normal opening is on the inside)?
4. Are the same pop rivets used for attaching the rear baffle to the
ribs ok for attaching the cover, or is something stronger (screws?)
more appropriate?
5. Any other sage advise?
I may end up calling Van's anyway to discuss this, but I was hoping I could
get a few real-world-war-stories before venturing off into the unknown.
I know some folks have had good luck removing the whole rear baffle, but I
kind of like the idea of (relatively) easily removable access covers in
case I ever need to get into the thing in the future. I'll build those
into the right tank up front, I guess...
The feeling of delight after getting the left tank "done" and tested was
oh so short...
Tom Goeddel
RV-6a (one step forward, one step back...)
t.goeddel(at)att.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Ruble <cruble(at)cisco.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Tank Slosh Removal |
> I think I will try to open the hummer up by cutting
> access holes in the rear baffle on each bay, somehow cleaning out the
> lovingly applied slosh, and then closing the thing back up. A few
> questions:
Don't fix it if it aint broke. '85W has run with the slosh in the tanks
for years and I have seen only a few flakes.
Chris
>
> Tom Goeddel
> RV-6a (one step forward, one step back...)
> t.goeddel(at)att.com
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Tank Slosh Removal |
>Hi all,
>
>About 3 weeks after I finished the left fuel tank, Van's came out with the
>recommendation not to use slosh any more on the fuel tanks due to several
>instances of chunks peeling off. I made the bold decision then not to
>do anything until I got ready to rivet the right tank. Well, that time
>is just about here. I think I will try to open the hummer up by cutting
>access holes in the rear baffle on each bay, somehow cleaning out the
>lovingly applied slosh, and then closing the thing back up. A few
>questions:
> 1. How do I get the inevitable metal shavings that will be generated
> out of the tank?
> 2. What is the best way of removing the slosh? I know the part about
> "Pour in a gallon of and
> shake it all about" but how about some real world experience
> about what happens when you do this? What is left after the
> solvent is poured off? How do you remove the residue? Paper towels?
> Rags? ScotchBrite? Hammer and chisel? Will there
> be any suprises? How long do you have to get the crud out after
> soaking with solvent (I assume I'll want to do the solvent bit
> before cutting open gapping holes in the back)? How do you pour
> out the old solvent without having a toxic waste emergency
> response team sent out to your house?
> 3. Is making an .040 reinforcing ring for the outside of the baffle
> ok (the ring on the normal opening is on the inside)?
> 4. Are the same pop rivets used for attaching the rear baffle to the
> ribs ok for attaching the cover, or is something stronger (screws?)
> more appropriate?
> 5. Any other sage advise?
>
>I may end up calling Van's anyway to discuss this, but I was hoping I could
>get a few real-world-war-stories before venturing off into the unknown.
>I know some folks have had good luck removing the whole rear baffle, but I
>kind of like the idea of (relatively) easily removable access covers in
>case I ever need to get into the thing in the future. I'll build those
>into the right tank up front, I guess...
>
>The feeling of delight after getting the left tank "done" and tested was
>oh so short...
>
>Tom Goeddel
>RV-6a (one step forward, one step back...)
>t.goeddel(at)att.com
>
Tom: You might consider leaving the left tank alone and not sloshing the
right tank. If you did a good job of prep work, you might get by fine. I
talked to a couple of RV "gurus" that had worked on leaking tanks and they
indicated that the slosh had disappeared after a period of time. It didn't
sheet off, just evidently eroded (mechanicly or chemically) away. As far as
chemical to use to remove slosh, I'd worry about any chemical action on the
proseal, as well.
I'd recommend not cutting the access holes until you have a problem.
It'd be a shame if later, your tanks didn't leak, but your access holes did
and by not cutting them now, you would speed construction along. In other
words, don't cut them until you have a problem because you might not have a
problem. If you decide to go ahead, I'd recommend the pop rivets as a bunch
of screws is just another source of possible leaks and construction time is
longer. I used the white slosh and have 196 hrs on my RV-6 since Feb. 95
and have not had any problems so far. (But like every one else, I have my
fingers crossed.) I'm building a 6-A now and won't be using slosh.
Good luck, Bob Skinner
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
> joining
>Hi I'm building an RV6. How do I log into the group?
>
>If you made it this far---I think your in. Reply to this message to see if
everything works. Bob Skinner RV-6 (flying)
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Russell Neeper <Russell.Neeper(at)net.tamu.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: HS Rear spar question |
> Starting my HS spar. One of my 409s fit into the 603 channels just
> fine, but the other one is way off, no matter how I try it. Comparing
> the two 409s, they're nowhere near the same shape. My friend's 409s
> are identical.
>
> If I have one side against the flange, the other end is at least 1/8"
> away from the flange.
>
> I emailed Van's, and Tom said to just cleco the center in, bend the
> ends so they're flush against the flange, and keep drilling/clecoing
> outward. The pre-load should have no effect.
I had the same thing happen to me. I didn't talk to Van's but I ended
up doing what Tom suggested to you. In my case, the pre-load *did* have
an effect. When I removed the completed spar from the jig, it had a curve
to it. When I stretched a string from one end to the other, the center
line where the 603's came together was off by about 1/8" (it was straight
when I drilled it on the jig). Probably not enough to matter, but it bugged
me. Because of the misalignment and the fact that I drilled the holes for
the center bracket the wrong size, I ended up reordering the two 603's and
409's. The second time around, I did not have to bend the 409's to get
them to conform to the 603 channels and the spar came out perfectly straight.
------
Russell Neeper Texas A&M University
russell(at)net.tamu.edu Computing & Information Services
RV6a #22884 - working on the ailerons.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Elon Ormsby" <Elon.Ormsby(at)quickmail.llnl.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-List- IFR flight in o |
Reply to: RE>RV-List: IFR flight in our homebuilts
The "experimental" category pertains to your airframe and engine only. It has
nothing to do with the instrument panel.
To fly in IMC or "on instruments" you must meet all applicable FAR's just as
in a certified aircraft. That is, all "primary" flight instruments must be
TSO'd, dated, signed-off, calibrated etc... "Secondary" instruments (those
not essential to the safety of the flight) are not required to be certified or
meet instrument calibration dates. Example, if you are performing a
non-precision, VOR approach and happen to use a hand-held, moving map,
non-tso, or other type of GPS for "situational awareness!" you should be ok.
However, if your VOR's FAILED during the flight and you relied on the non-cert
GPS you would be illegal. Your burden would be to prove that all PRIMARY
(minimum equipment instruments) were functional BEFORE take-off and that they
subsequently failed during the flight. Not only are you putting human life at
unnecessary risk but the cost of legal representation will be greater than if
you bought a tso'd GPS in the first place!
The extra cost is due, in part, to the paper trail for certified parts but, in
some cases, improved technology. Certified GPS units MUST announce a system
failure if it occurs (your hand-held doesn't have to). I don't know about
mean-time-before-failure but if the certified unit has a higher MTFB than a
non-cert unit that would account for the expense of better parts. Certainly
the mfgr is exposed to greater liability - so you know part of the cost is for
that insurance premium to pay the lawyers!
Happy and safe new year,
Elon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rust47rg(at)one.net |
| Subject: | Re: IFR flight in our homebuilts |
>I've just started my IFR training, and I've started to think about the
>equipment I want to put in my 6A's panel when it becomes time. I want to
>be able to fly IFR approaches.
>
>In order to fly IFR in our airplanes, does anyone know how much of our
>equipment must be TSO'd for IFR flight? We experimenters get away with
>installing a lot of non-TSO'd equipment.
>
>One of the big questions -- if I install a non-TSO'd GPS, can I do GPS
>approaches? What if I install a TSO'd GPS, but install it myself? (I
>understand production airplanes must have their installation performed
>my an approved-for-IFR-installation shop.)
>
>Does anyone understand why a GPS that is TSO'd for IFR is so expensive?
>Is it the certification process that's expensive, or is the actual box
>that much more capable?
>
>-J
>
>--
>Joe Larson
>
Joe:
Answers as I understand them are:
No, No, Installation, Paperwork, Jumping through the hoop time by the shop.
The box itself in some cases is almost identical with the exception of
interfaces.
(The installation does have to be flight checked and accepted by the feds)
Regards:
Rusty Gossard
N47RG RV-4 Flying (at times IFR)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | twg(at)blink.ho.att.com (Tom Goeddel(x5278)) |
| Subject: | Re: HS Rear spar question |
>> Starting my HS spar. One of my 409s fit into the 603 channels just
>> fine, but the other one is way off, no matter how I try it. Comparing
>> the two 409s, they're nowhere near the same shape. My friend's 409s
>> are identical.
>>
>> If I have one side against the flange, the other end is at least 1/8"
>> away from the flange.
>>
>> I emailed Van's, and Tom said to just cleco the center in, bend the
>> ends so they're flush against the flange, and keep drilling/clecoing
>> outward. The pre-load should have no effect.
>>
>> I suppose I might try it, but the question is: would you?
I had the same situation and same worries (longer ago than I care to admit,
given where I am today...) so I called Van's and happened to
get Van himself. He said it was no problem at all, just to hold the edges
tight against the spar flange while drilling. He explained that the little
bit of pre-load was insignificant, and that the distortion of the parts
was the result of the heat treating process. I found when doing this step that
the force required to hold the parts tight to the flange was really quite
small.
At least that's my best recollection of what transpired... yikes... that was
almost 4 years ago! I better get going or I'll have to park in the
antique and classic parking at Oshkosh by the time I get finished...
Good luck!
Tom Goeddel
RV-6a (plugging away at the second wing)
t.goeddel(at)att.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tedd McHenry <tedd(at)idacom.hp.com> |
| Subject: | IFR flight in our homebuilts |
Joe:
As a Canadian, I don't know much about the FAA's requirements for
equipment. But I think you need to consider whether you _want_ to shoot
approaches with non-TSO'd equipment. It's TSO'd for a reason.
Perhaps someone out there can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think one of
the requirements for TSO'd GPS units is that there is some way to determine
if unit is receiving bad information. VORs are self-checking; if one
starts to send an erroneous signal it shuts itself down. If you're on
approach when that happens, you lose the signal, overshoot, and you're
safe. If you're on approach and you start getting bad GPS data, and the
unit has no way of checking that, you won't know that something has gone
wrong. That's not a situation I'd feel comfortable with, even if it were
legal.
Tedd McHenry
Edmonton, AB
> I've just started my IFR training, and I've started to think about the
> equipment I want to put in my 6A's panel when it becomes time. I want to
> be able to fly IFR approaches.
>
> In order to fly IFR in our airplanes, does anyone know how much of our
> equipment must be TSO'd for IFR flight? We experimenters get away with
> installing a lot of non-TSO'd equipment.
>
> One of the big questions -- if I install a non-TSO'd GPS, can I do GPS
> approaches? What if I install a TSO'd GPS, but install it myself? (I
> understand production airplanes must have their installation performed
> my an approved-for-IFR-installation shop.)
>
> Does anyone understand why a GPS that is TSO'd for IFR is so expensive?
> Is it the certification process that's expensive, or is the actual box
> that much more capable?
>
> -J
>
> --
> Joe Larson
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
> >Hi I'm building an RV6. How do I log into the group?
> >
> >If you made it this far---I think your in. Reply to this message to see if
> everything works. Bob Skinner RV-6 (flying)
> >
>
Nuh-uhhh -- anyone can send mail to rv-list(at)matronics.com. But if they
haven't subscribed, they can send but won't receive....
Randall Henderson
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: HS Rear spar question |
>away from the flange.
>
>I emailed Van's, and Tom said to just cleco the center in, bend the
>ends so they're flush against the flange, and keep drilling/clecoing
>outward. The pre-load should have no effect.
>
>I suppose I might try it, but the question is: would you?
Hmmm. I tend to be very anal about airplanes that my behind is riding in
too. I would tend to think the preload *should* have no effect also, but I
probably wouldn't do it.
-- Ed Bundy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JerryFlyRV(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Tank Slosh Removal |
>The feeling of delight after getting the left tank "done" and tested was
>oh so short...
>
>
Tom
Quite frankly if you prepared your tank before putting in the slosh I would
not bother removing it. If you scuffed and cleaned your tanks and did not put
your hands all over the bare tank skins it will stick. I have burned
everything from regular auto to 100LL and have not lost a speck of slosh
neither have the people I fly with.
I can't emphasize enough that they won't flake if prepared right
Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | A200hpRV6(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Question for RV-6 builders |
Well I am an A&P IA and also own a Repair Station. I would say it is a toss
between the two. I would probably go AL. Cessna did it this way from 150's to
200 series aircraft. As long as the leg fairing doesn't rub on the line and
the line is properly secured i wouldn't worry about it.
good luck,
Ron
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
>
>> >Hi I'm building an RV6. How do I log into the group?
>> >
>> >If you made it this far---I think your in. Reply to this message to see if
>> everything works. Bob Skinner RV-6 (flying)
>> >
>>
>
>Nuh-uhhh -- anyone can send mail to rv-list(at)matronics.com. But if they
>haven't subscribed, they can send but won't receive....
>
>Randall Henderson
>RV-6
>Randall: Can you help this guy onboard? I erased his message so don't
know his E-mail address. Thanks, Bob Skinner
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DerFlieger(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: IFR flight in our homebuilts |
>
>One of the big questions -- if I install a non-TSO'd GPS, can I do GPS
>approaches? What if I install a TSO'd GPS, but install it myself? (I
>understand production airplanes must have their installation performed
>my an approved-for-IFR-installation shop.)
>
>Does anyone understand why a GPS that is TSO'd for IFR is so expensive?
>Is it the certification process that's expensive, or is the actual box
>that much more capable?
>
>
AOPA publishes a booklet "GPS/Loran, A guide to modern navigation" which can
explain and answer many of the questions you have. There are several
classes of TSO for IFR certified GPS units pertaining to the type of
operation. Basically there are 3 defined approaches, Overlay Supplemental
(traditional approach equipment must be on board), Overlay Standalone (Only
after 1997 when the Wide Area Augmentation System arrives), and Standalone
(there are less than ten of these existing now). A signal testing technology
called RAIM is used in IFR GPS's. I am not sure its required for all
approaches but certainly is for Standalone.
As you mentioned, certified a/c must obtain a 337 including a test flight.
Then it is legal only if the database if current. Handhelds do not
qualify. I am assuming something similar for our aircraft. Your larger
question concerning our aircraft could probably be answered by a reputable
avionics shop and/or our Friendly Aviation Administration. In a recent CFI
recert. I was told that VOR's and GS will not be around too long after year
2000. You know how that goes! The feds do seem convinced and committed.
Jim Stugart
DerFlieger(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Vap <kvap(at)sky.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV Group Newsletters |
We have just formed a builders' group in the Kansas City area.
(I sent this over a week ago, but I don't think it made it to the list)
I publish the monthly newsletter for the group (KC RVator) if anyone =
would like to subscribe (join the group). Let me know or see more =
details at the Web site: "http://www.sky.net/~kvap/kcrvator.html"
Publishers of other RV builders' group newsletters: I am sending out =
our next issue to some of you (those I know about...D.Weiler, J.Cone, =
D.Walsh, etc). If you would like to reciprocate subscriptions, let me =
know and I will leave you on the list. Let me know if you want to see =
an issue and think I may not have your address.
-Kevin Vap
kvap@sky.net http://www.sky.net/~kvap
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KUKULSKIM(at)aol.com |
Okay, somebody just mentioned trial fitting their wing to an RV-6 fuselage
and said it fit like it was supposed to. (???) I just trial fitted one of my
RV-4 wings to my fuselage as well.
While it was gratifying to see the main spar did in fact fit, I was mildly
surprised by how tight the fit was (I built my carrythrough bulkhead around
the spars before building the wings or fuselage, so I know the carrythrough
structure and spars were matched).
The question is: Is this tight fit typical? I mean TIGHT - to get the wing
out I had to drive the spar out with a piece of wood and a heavy hammer. Are
there any techniques out there to loosen up the fit (if this is even
desireable) or special methods developed to insert and remove the main spars?
I don't plan on casually fitting the wings to my fuselage in the future. Just
once to set the incidence angles, attach the forward brackets and fuel lines,
and then once for the final assembly.
Any comments or suggestions?
Mike Kukulski (KUKULSKIM(at)aol.com)
RV-4 - Fuselage Innards
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Ayers <102337.2252(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Re: Parking Brakes |
> On the subject of parking brakes, I have the following thoughts. I've
installed the right side
>brake option in my RV-6A, and have also installed an firewall mounted
reservoir. This was
>done by bringing the low pressure side of the brake pistons up to a tee, then
feeding it into
>the reservoir. Given this type of setup, it should be possible to put a
parking brake piston
>(single) in the feed line from the reservoir.
> Any comments on this approach?
> Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV 638 Hrs
It sounds to me like you have just described the parking/hand brake on a Piper
Cherokee. It
worked well.
Jim Ayers
LOM RV-3 (6 hrs on the plastic variable pitch prop. Haven't broken the drive
unit yet. And it hasn't been from lack of trying. Two landings at full course
pitch, and the rest at fine pitch. What a difference in approach angle.)
102337.2252(at)compuserve.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JPallist(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: VStab, to offset or not? |
Began mounting my VS to the fuselage tonight (yes, got the HS mounted to my
satisfaction last night... sigh of relief). This brings up the question of
whether to offset the leading edge of the VS to compensate for the rotation
of the air flow across the tail due to the effect of the prop. If so, how
much? And in which direction?
Opinions/Pireps?
Thanks in advance,
John Pallister
p.s.- Found an easy way to check that the VS was mounted vertically.
First, level the fuselage. Then, run a plumb bob line down the center holes
of the three hinge mounts on the aft surface of the VS (assumes your VS was
built straignt). Adjust to center the plumb line, clamp & drill.
p.p.s. Also, caught myself about to use AN3 bolts instead of AN4's in the 3
holes that secure the base of the VS to the fuselage and tail wheel mount.
(An easy mistake to make, after using AN3's in the upper mount holes, and a
bunch of AN3's to mount the HS). (Wonder how many of you are going to go out
and look to see if you did the same?) Happy New Year!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JPallist(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | MAC Trim vs. Autopilot question |
For some time I have wondered if the MAC aileron trim servo (installed per
electric aileron trim kit from Van's), could be interfaced to the output from
a turn coordinator to serve as a wing leveler. This question reared it's
ugly? head again, after reading the excellent summary of the speed
controller/multiplexer from Matronics the other night...
Any of you electronics/autopilot gurus have thoughts on this one???
Thanks in advance, John Pallister
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gregg L. Sloan" <gsloan(at)CapAccess.org> |
| Subject: | Re: HS Rear spar question |
Same problem here couple years ago. I also did what Tom said. However, I
was concerned about how straight the spar would come out, so before I
drilled, I clamped the entire spar together in the preload position to
verify the 409 would not impart a bend into the spar. It did not. I
carefully drilled and riveted. The spar came out perfectly straight.
On Wed, 3 Jan 1996 om.cv.hp.com!steve_kimura(at)matronics.com wrote:
> Item Subject: cc:Mail Text
> Hi gang; here's my first real builder's question:
>
> Starting my HS spar. One of my 409s fit into the 603 channels just
> fine, but the other one is way off, no matter how I try it. Comparing
> the two 409s, they're nowhere near the same shape. My friend's 409s
> are identical.
>
> If I have one side against the flange, the other end is at least 1/8"
> away from the flange.
>
> I emailed Van's, and Tom said to just cleco the center in, bend the
> ends so they're flush against the flange, and keep drilling/clecoing
> outward. The pre-load should have no effect.
>
> I suppose I might try it, but the question is: would you?
>
> Maybe I'm being too anal about this, but I don't want to be worring
> about it for the rest of my life.
>
> Steve Kimura
> skimura(at)cv.hp.com
>
Gregg Sloan_____gsloan(at)capaccess.org_____Herndon, Virginia__USA
RV-6A 22425 Fuselage started
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave Hyde <nauga(at)windvane.umd.edu> |
Oops, sorry about the blank message.
I routed (or tried to, anyway) the pitot line in the left wing last night and
it's left me with some questions.
1) Did everyone/anyone use a single piece of AL tubing from the end of the
spar to the L fitting in the leading edge? Seems like it'll be tough to
replace if something breaks. I considered using soft tubing under the tank,
and it's not too late to change it.
2) Is some kind of support for the tubing required behind the fuel tank?
It seems like a long run for the tubing with no support, but I'm not sure what
I'd use.
3) How does the line get from behind the tank outside the former (F-405) to
inside the fuselage?
If anyone's got any other suggestions I'd appreciate them. This stuff is
either not on the plans (MY version, anyway) or I just can't find it. Real
experience is also worth a few hours starting at plans.
TIA,
Dave Hyde
nauga(at)windvane.umd.edu
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | OrndorffG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Question for RV-6 builders |
Dan,
The plans call for using the AL tube all the way we have not had any trouble
with the brake line s this way, how ever do not forget to put the loop in at
the end so the line can move....George & Becki Orndorff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark Richardson <richards(at)sofkin.ca> |
| Subject: | Chatter - Christmas is weird |
Hi folks,
I realize this has nothing to do with RV's, but I
received this e-mail from a friend yesterday and
thought it was worth a chuckle:
> Christmas is just plain weird.
>
> What other time of year do you sit in front of a dead tree in the
> living room and eat candy out of your socks?
>
Later
Mark
************************************************************************
* Mark Richardson Software Kinetics Ltd *
* Project Manager 65 Iber Rd. *
* Defence Systems Stittsville, Ont *
* VOX 613-831-0888 K2S 1E7 *
* FAX 613-831-1836 richards(at)sofkin.ca *
************************************************************************
* RV-6 20819 '85 Virago 750 *
* EAA# - 367635 DoD# - 1506 *
************************************************************************
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WStucklen(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Tank Slosh Removal |
>> I think I will try to open the hummer up by cutting
>> access holes in the rear baffle on each bay, somehow cleaning out the
>> lovingly applied slosh, and then closing the thing back up. A few
>> questions:
>
> Don't fix it if it aint broke. '85W has run with the slosh in the tanks
>for years and I have seen only a few flakes.
>
> Chris
>
I concurr. I've been flying N925RV (RV-6A) for 2 1/2 Years and not seen
any flakes. If you did the job right the first time, you won't have any
problems. If you fly it and start seeing a problem, then fix it then.
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
wstucklen(at)aol.com
>>
>> Tom Goeddel
>> RV-6a (one step forward, one step back...)
>> t.goeddel(at)att.com
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WStucklen(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: VStab, to offset or not? |
>Began mounting my VS to the fuselage tonight (yes, got the HS mounted to my
>satisfaction last night... sigh of relief). This brings up the question of
>whether to offset the leading edge of the VS to compensate for the rotation
>of the air flow across the tail due to the effect of the prop. If so, how
>much? And in which direction?
>
>Opinions/Pireps?
>
>Thanks in advance,
> John Pallister
John:
I mounted mine without any offset and had to put a small wedge on the
rudder to compensate. The wedge dimensions are 6" long by1 1/2" wide by 1/4"
thick. I don't know what this represents for rudder or Vertical Stab
deflection, but it can't be much. Good luck.
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
wstucklen(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WStucklen(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV Group Newsletters |
>We have just formed a builders' group in the Kansas City area.
>
>(I sent this over a week ago, but I don't think it made it to the list)
>
>I publish the monthly newsletter for the group (KC RVator) if anyone would
>like to subscribe (join the group). Let me know or see more details at the
>Web site: "http://www.sky.net/~kvap/kcrvator.html"
>
>Publishers of other RV builders' group newsletters: I am sending out our
>next issue to some of you (those I know about...D.Weiler, J.Cone, D.Walsh,
>etc). If you would like to reciprocate subscriptions, let me know and I
will
>leave you on the list. Let me know if you want to see an issue and think I
>may not have your address.
>
>-Kevin Vap
>kvap@sky.net http://www.sky.net/~kvap
>
>
Do you plan on posting the newsletter?
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
wstucklen(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David A. Barnhart" <barnhart(at)crl.com> |
On Thu, 4 Jan 1996, Dave Hyde wrote:
> I routed (or tried to, anyway) the pitot line in the left wing last night and
> it's left me with some questions.
INstead of using aluminum tubing, I used polyflo. I've had a lot better
luck keeping the nylon fittings from leaking than I have with the
standard AN fittings. Besides, I don't have to worry about making a
bunch of bends in the tubing where it goes from in front of the spar
through the lightning hole and connects to the pitot tube.
As for securing the tubing behind the tank, the plans show fabricating a
couple of little clamps and pop-riveting them down.
If you use polyflo, I'd suggest that you use some groomstrip (sometimes
called 'caterpiller') around the edge of the lightning hole in the spar
where the polyflo passes thru (for abrasion protection). You'll also
need a couple of extra fittings at the pitot tube, since nylon flair
fittings seem to be unavailable.
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
rv-6 sn 23744
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert Busick <rbusick(at)nmsu.edu> |
| Subject: | PPG Primer Products |
I have been using PPG DX 1791 self etching primer on my wings. I
like the way it goes on and the slight brass/gold color once it is
dried. This week I went back to my PPG paint store and the seemingly
knowledgeable salesman told be that the DX 1791 was not very good for
corrosion protection and that their best product was DP 48/50 (number
depends on the color, available in five colors). He convinced me to go
with the DP 50 rather than the DX 1791.
A question for those that know or use PPG products, just how
corrosion proof is the self etching primer, and should I go over the wing
areas that are metal to metal with the DP 50? I have already primed the
entire wing with DX 1791. I am worried about weight, but then again, I
do not want a rusty wing if I should move to the Florida Keys!
Another primer question. What is faying, and what should be used
to protect against it. Will a good primer solve this problem?
Thanks
Bob Busick
RV-6
rbusick(at)nmsu.edu
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steven Kimura <kimuras(at)PEAK.ORG> |
| Subject: | Re: HS Rear spar question |
Thanks to all who helped me with this. Cant' tell you how much better
I feel knowing that it's happened before and that others share my
feelings about it. I tried the fit again and the preload isn't much,
but I think I'll get a new part anyway and eliminate my worries.
Steve Kimura
skimura(at)cv.hp.com
> Starting my HS spar. One of my 409s fit into the 603 channels just
> fine, but the other one is way off, no matter how I try it. Comparing
>...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ecole(at)ix.netcom.com (EDWARD COLE ) |
| Subject: | Re: HS Rear spar question |
You wrote:
>
>Item Subject: cc:Mail Text
>Hi gang; here's my first real builder's question:
>
>Starting my HS spar. One of my 409s fit into the 603 channels just
>fine, but the other one is way off, no matter how I try it. Comparing
>the two 409s, they're nowhere near the same shape. My friend's 409s
>are identical.
>
>If I have one side against the flange, the other end is at least 1/8"
>away from the flange.
>
>I emailed Van's, and Tom said to just cleco the center in, bend the
>ends so they're flush against the flange, and keep drilling/clecoing
>outward. The pre-load should have no effect.
>
>I suppose I might try it, but the question is: would you?
>
>Maybe I'm being too anal about this, but I don't want to be worring
>about it for the rest of my life.
>
>Steve Kimura
>skimura(at)cv.hp.com
>
Steve,
Did you radius one edge of the 409's per the plans? The 90 degree edge
wont fit the 603 channel bend radius. Check to see if the radiai (sp)
match for a close fit.
Ed Cole RV6A 24430 Empennage
ecole(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Day" <sday(at)pharmcomp.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Is it in yet? |
>The question is: Is this tight fit typical? I mean TIGHT - to get the wing
>out I had to drive the spar out with a piece of wood and a heavy hammer. Are
>there any techniques out there to loosen up the fit (if this is even
>desireable) or special methods developed to insert and remove the main spars?
Does temperature have anything to do with it? I mean did you fit the spars
in the heat and try to remove them in the cold? Not sure if it has that
much of an effect or not.
-Steve Day
sday(at)pharmcomp.com
(CK ID - RV6a RV for short)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Day" <sday(at)pharmcomp.com> |
| Subject: | Landing in the snow |
Could someone familiar with landing in that white fluffy stuff describe a
few things for me.
1. Can a tri-gear (rv6a) be fitted with skiis?
2. What condition does the snow have to be in to land? Can you land in
waist deep powder? (more than once :)
3. How flat does the surface need to be? Is relatively flat good enough, or
do small bumps cause huge problems? Is it common to look down and say,
"that looks like a good spot." Or is it more of a check with the locals to
see where is safe enough.
4. Why do I ask? I like to downhill ski, could I fly over to a favorite ski
resort that has 50 miles of x-country skiing land, pick a nice open spot to
land and walla, I'm at the ski resort ready to hit the slopes. Or am I
being un-realistic.
-Thanks for any comments
-Steve Day
sday(at)pharmcomp.com
(CK ID - RV6a RV for short)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dierks(at)austin.ibm.com |
| Subject: | Is it in yet? (fwd) |
I thought thats what she said :).
I just assembled my RV4 and the wings slid in with very little force
required.
When you build the fuselage, you need to keep spacers (wood blocks)
between the carrythrough bulkheads so that the spacing is maintained
when you are riveting on things like the floor ribs and such which
attach to this carrythrouh structure. Failure to do this may
alter the dimensions some and cause it to be too tight.
All you can do at this poing is spray the spars with silicone or oil
when you go to insert them. You may also look to see if you caused
some problem with the floor ribs or the two ribs that go forward
to the firewall. As long as you can get them in (even with some force)
is all that matters as they will probably never be taken out again.
Herman
> From root Thu Jan 4 05:08:07 1996
> Errors-To: bounces(at)matronics.com
> From: aol.com!KUKULSKIM(at)matronics.com
> Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 01:31:06 -0500
> Message-Id: <960104013105_83560380(at)mail02.mail.aol.com>
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: Is it in yet?
>
> Okay, somebody just mentioned trial fitting their wing to an RV-6 fuselage
> and said it fit like it was supposed to. (???) I just trial fitted one of my
> RV-4 wings to my fuselage as well.
>
> While it was gratifying to see the main spar did in fact fit, I was mildly
> surprised by how tight the fit was (I built my carrythrough bulkhead around
> the spars before building the wings or fuselage, so I know the carrythrough
> structure and spars were matched).
>
> The question is: Is this tight fit typical? I mean TIGHT - to get the wing
> out I had to drive the spar out with a piece of wood and a heavy hammer. Are
> there any techniques out there to loosen up the fit (if this is even
> desireable) or special methods developed to insert and remove the main spars?
>
> I don't plan on casually fitting the wings to my fuselage in the future. Just
> once to set the incidence angles, attach the forward brackets and fuel lines,
> and then once for the final assembly.
>
> Any comments or suggestions?
>
> Mike Kukulski (KUKULSKIM(at)aol.com)
> RV-4 - Fuselage Innards
>
--
--------------------------------------------------------
*NOTICE for internet mail*: Any ideas or thoughts expressed here are my
own and are independent of my employer.
Herman Dierks, Dept. E54S, AWSD, Austin, Texas
mail: dierks(at)austin.ibm.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Hovan <hovan(at)apple.com> |
| Subject: | Re: HS Rear spar question |
Russell Neeper wrote:
>
> > Starting my HS spar. One of my 409s fit into the 603 channels just
> > fine, but the other one is way off, no matter how I try it. Comparing
> > the two 409s, they're nowhere near the same shape. My friend's 409s
> > are identical.
> >
> > If I have one side against the flange, the other end is at least 1/8"
> > away from the flange.
> >
> > I emailed Van's, and Tom said to just cleco the center in, bend the
> > ends so they're flush against the flange, and keep drilling/clecoing
> > outward. The pre-load should have no effect.
>
> I had the same thing happen to me. I didn't talk to Van's but I ended
> up doing what Tom suggested to you. In my case, the pre-load *did* have
> an effect. When I removed the completed spar from the jig, it had a curve
> to it. When I stretched a string from one end to the other, the center
> line where the 603's came together was off by about 1/8" (it was straight
> when I drilled it on the jig). Probably not enough to matter, but it bugged
> me. Because of the misalignment and the fact that I drilled the holes for
> the center bracket the wrong size, I ended up reordering the two 603's and
> 409's. The second time around, I did not have to bend the 409's to get
> them to conform to the 603 channels and the spar came out perfectly straight.
>
> ------
> Russell Neeper Texas A&M University
> russell(at)net.tamu.edu Computing & Information Services
>
> RV6a #22884 - working on the ailerons.
Hi All,
One thing that I have come across is that drilling or riveting parts
"under stresses," as would be necessary in the procedure above, can
cause twists in the final part as Russell states above. These
twists can form in the vertical and horizontal planes! I used 6
plumb lines to ensure that the twists did not impact the HS. For the
horizontal plane, the procedure for locating the fabricated brackets
removes horizontal twists in the spar.
Here's how I tried to ensure there were no vertical twists. Put two
nails into the side posts of the jig about a foot higher than the
tallest HS skeleton rib. Run a heavy piece of string or fishing
line across the jig and attatch to the nails. (The string is
parallel to the cross beam of the jig) Next, about 2" away on the
string (measured from the post), hang a plumb line that reaches the
horizontal centerline of the jig cross beam. Bend the nails to
center it perfectly. Perform the same procedure on the other side of
the jig. This ensures that the sting is exactly parallel to the
centerline of the rear spar. Then, simply tie plumb lines as needed
to the horizontal string across the jig. I aligned them so that they
hung 1/4" from each tip rib. Then the ribs can be adjusted so that
they are on the centerline. Remember to check the centerline on the
jig cross beam so that it is exactly the same as the centerline of
the rear spar when it is mounted in the jig. If not, make
adjustments to the procedure above so that the string follows the
spar centerline.
Also...As Tony Bingelis once told me, "The centerline is your best
friend!" So, be sure that it is accurately drawn and measured both
on the jig and spar to allow the above procedure to work properly.
enjoy,
John
hovan(at)apple.com
http://atlantis.austin.apple.com/people.pages/jhovan/home.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Earl Brabandt" <cwbraban(at)ichips.intel.com> |
> I routed (or tried to, anyway) the pitot line in the left wing last night and
> it's left me with some questions.
>
Dave,
I used the AL tubing supplied in the kit. It runs from a heated
AN pitot tube located just outside of the second to the last
wing rib just behind the spar. Yup, it's way out there like a Piper
installation to keep it away from the aileron bellcrank and tie down
rope. It wouldn't fit in the location suggested in the plans. The
tube runs through grommets installed in the wing ribs behind
the spar, then makes a jog through a spar lightening hole before reaching
the aileron bellcrank (I don't remember exactly which station), and then
the routing is completed per Van's recommended path for the -6 with
little clamps pop-riveted to the spar web which holds the tank.
As I was almost done closing my wings, I realized that I'd forgotten to
route this line but I was still able to do so with some trouble. The
line is not long enough to extend all the way to the panel so I intend
to install a coupler somewhere near the root.
Cal
N66VR (RV-6 in progress)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: RV-List- IFR flight in o |
>
> The "experimental" category pertains to your airframe and engine only. It has
> nothing to do with the instrument panel.
Agreed.
> To fly in IMC or "on instruments" you must meet all applicable FAR's just as
> in a certified aircraft. That is, all "primary" flight instruments must be
> TSO'd, dated, signed-off, calibrated etc... "Secondary" instruments (those
> not essential to the safety of the flight) are not required to be certified or
I have heard this discussion many times before, and no one has ever been
able to point me to a reg that says your nave equipment (other than GPS) have
to have TSO certification for part 91 operations. Part 135 yes, part
121 yes, but part 91 (that's us)?
Sec. 91.207 says ELTS have to meet TSO-C91
Sec 91.125 says TRANSPONDERS must meet TSO-C74b, TSO-C74c, or TSO-C112
Far 91.25 says only that VORs have to either be maintained, checked and
inspeced under an approved procedure, OR have been operationally
checked within the preceeding 30 days (required VOR check). Nothing
about any TSO.
Please, where does it say Nav and/or Comm radios (other than GPS) have
to meet a TSO for part 91 IFR operations? I'm not saying they DON't have
to, but if they do I'd like to see the reg.
Randall Henderson
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
Dave Hyde said:
> I routed (or tried to, anyway) the pitot line in the left wing last night and
> it's left me with some questions.
>
> 1) Did everyone/anyone use a single piece of AL tubing from the end of the
> spar to the L fitting in the leading edge? Seems like it'll be tough to
> replace if something breaks. I considered using soft tubing under the tank,
> and it's not too late to change it.
Yes I did, wasn't difficult. I don't suppose it would be difficult to replace
except you'd have to take the tank off. I still prefer this to an extra fitting
though, and after all if you do it right it won't break. I added a little tab
with a clamp on it in the lightening hole where the tube goes through to help
keep it from vibrating there.
>
> 2) Is some kind of support for the tubing required behind the fuel tank?
> It seems like a long run for the tubing with no support, but I'm not sure what
> I'd use.
Yes use those cushioned line clamps, available from Van's or anywhere else.
Use the AN3 spar to rib reinforcing angle bolts to hold down the clamps.
>
> 3) How does the line get from behind the tank outside the former (F-405) to
> inside the fuselage?
I haven't got that far, so I don't know that either!
Randall Henderson
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Terry Williams <terry(at)is.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Landing in the snow |
...Peeking out from my RV-List hole...
Steve Day asks:
>1. Can a tri-gear (rv6a) be fitted with skiis?
I seem to recall a Piper Tri-Pacer on skiis. (At least I think that
I remember one.) The castoring nose wheel might be a problem.
>2. What condition does the snow have to be in to land? Can you land
>in waist deep powder? (more than once :)
I don't think so. I don't think powder snow has the surface tension
to hold an airplane. I think that you would want the snow to be
pretty hard packed. I think that I remember seeing something on TV
that showed a bush pilot (C18X on skiis) "flying" down his landing
site while holding a ski or two down on the snow until he was
certain
that there were no sinkholes and to smooth out his landing surface.
He was landing on a frozen sand bar in a bend in a big river. He
went around, probably, six or seven times before he finally stopped.
>3. How flat does the surface need to be? Is relatively flat good
>enough, or do small bumps cause huge problems? Is it common to
look >down and say, "that looks like a good spot." Or is it more of
a >check with the locals to see where is safe enough.
I think that you have to know your landing site pretty well. I
would bet that bush pilots scout out landing sites in the spring
when they can see what would be beneath the snow in the winter.
Another thing is that most open land is owned by someone. You would
probably want to check with the property owner before attempting a
landing.
>4. Why do I ask? I like to downhill ski, could I fly over to a
>favorite ski resort that has 50 miles of x-country skiing land,
pick >a nice open spot to land and walla, I'm at the ski resort
ready to >hit the slopes. Or am I being un-realistic.
I wonder what the resort would say?
>-Thanks for any comments
>-Steve Day
>sday(at)pharmcomp.com
>(CK ID - RV6a RV for short)
...Back to lurking...
tw
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JPallist(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Notching HS (Correction) & VS notes |
Subj: Re: RV-List: Notching HS Flange So Elevator Control Horn Can Move
Date: 96-01-02 22:06:53 EST
From: aol.com!JPallist(at)matronics.com
Wrote this the other day in response to the question on notching the HS
flange... then went back in the shop, eyeballed it, and realized I needed to
make a correction:
Just mounted my HS on fuselage last night... which brought back memories of
asking myself the same question about notching the aft edges of the h.s. spar
channel to get the required 30 degrees of up travel (SHOULD READ 25 DEGREES
OF DOWN TRAVEL (25 down, 30 up). Yes, I did notch my channel edge (only
about 1/8" cut out) where the elevator horns hit the channel... but certainly
NOT the reinforcement flanges themselves, which lie inside the spar channel.
(ADDITION: LATER REALIZED THAT I WAS MEASURING DEFLECTION OF THE ELEVATOR
SURFACE AND NOT THE CENTERLINE... WHEN I WENT BACK AND MEASURED CENTERLINE
DEFLECTION, I DISCOVERED THAT LITTLE IF ANY NOTCHING WAS REQUIRED (SEE #1
BELOW). Never-the-less, here are some tips I would like to pass on:
1. Be sure you are measuring angular deflection of the elevator
center-line... NOT the angle of the elevator skin surface (makes a big
difference!). Here's where an electronic level (e.g., "Smart Level") is
useful... as you can simply add the starting angle of the elevator surface to
the total deflection angle of the surface in the down position.
2. If you are just starting on the HS, look carefully at picture #4 on page
6-29 of the construction manual (and at plans sheet #34)... notice the two
holes in each end of the horiz. surface of the 1 X 1" angle in the picture,
these holes are used to bolt the front spars of the HS to the fuselage
longerons. So... don't get carried away in cutting and filing away the
horiz. face of this angle (which you do to allow bending the vertical faces
so they will mate with the front HS spar channels). I did... and filed away
extra metal (to be "sure" to avoid stress fractures when bending the vertical
faces)... metal I wish was still there now, as I only have minimal edge
clearance for the AN3 bolts that attach the ends of this angle to the
longerons. As described in a recent RVator... you can make up a doubler, if
you end up without enough edge clearance. In my case, I gained some extra
edge clearance by mounting my HS 1/8" farther aft on the fuselage than
planned (and adding 1/8" plate spacers behind the rear HS spar attach
flanges). This worked out fine... although, I did have to file about 1/8"
off the aft edges of my elevator horns... again to get the full 30 degrees of
"up" travel. Yet another lesson in the saying that "every minor change from
the plans generates three more down the line".
NEW:
3. When drilling/riviting the aft fuselage deck to the longerons, do not
drill any holes in the last 1" of the deck/longeron join. This is where you
will bolt a piece of 3/4 X 3/4 X 1/8 angle to attach the longerons to the
vertical stab spar. Or, I suppose you could carefully lay out the piece of
angle (with aft, vertical surface parallel to the web of F612 and checked for
plumb with the lower part of the web) and pilot drill the bolt holes.
4. One question that I wondered about for months: whether to trim the extra
1" or so off the aft ends of the longerons, where they extend beyond F612...
was finally answered when I mounted the VS. The answer is yes. Not only did
I trim them off flush with the aft edges of the F612 flanges, but I also
trimmed the horizontal surface of the angles back to flush with the F612 web
plane (left the vertical surfaces extending the extra 1/2" or so to end at
the F612 flange edges. This allowed adding one final aft skin rivit.
Visualize fitting the VS spar extension into the aft end of the fuselage to
fit flush with the F612 web and you should get the mental picture. Trimming
turned out to be easier that I had feared- used a 24 tooth jigsaw blade, and
filed to fit. (Incidentally, if you have not yet discovered chainsaw
sharpening round files, they are great for rapid cutting of radius corners!)
Bottom line... doesn't hurt to leave 'em long till ready to mount the VS...
it is an easy trim-to-fit job.
Happy New Year,
John Pallister
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JPallist(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: VStab, to offset or not? |
Springs might be a solution. Once had a C177 that was slightly misrigged so
that it liked to roll left at cruise... a simple fix was to hang an extra
headset on the right side of the passenger's control yoke.
I bought my RV6 kit before the change to overhead rudder pedals, so still had
the idea of rudder pedal springs to keep the pedals upright in mind... so,
when installing the overhead pedal upgrade... I went ahead and added a couple
of tabs for springs (thinking that they might be useful just to keep slack
out of the cables). Did not occur to me that a little differential spring
tension might also serve as rudder trim... hmmmm...
Yet, it seems to me that trim tabs have a distinct advantage over springs...
the greater the airspeed, the greater the force applied by a tab.... whereas,
spring tension would be constant, and given no foot pressure, would produce
more deflection at slower speeds... so you might find that ideal spring
tension for cruise is overkill at slower speeds.
I'm tending to think that it makes the most sense to "build it straight" (no
offset), and add a trim wedge to the rudder, if necessary.
Cheers, John Pallister
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carol R. de Solla" <de_solla_carol(at)jpmorgan.com> |
| Subject: | Variprime stockists |
[This note has been sent to the following InterNet address(es):
rvlist(at)matronics.com]
We're trying to find a stockist of Variprime here in the sunny United Kindom.
Does anyone in the US have a name/number at Du Pont in the US that I can call
to get info?
Thanks
Carol de Solla/David Coleman (Working on RV6 wings in sub-zero temperatures!
And we don't care!)
de_solla_carol(at)jpmorgan.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Thomas N. Martin" <103212.65(at)compuserve.com> |
Well it is time to paint my new RV-4. I have some Questions regarding all the
screws in the plane. Should I repalace them with stainless steel. If so should
it be done before or after painting. In particular I am thinking about the panel
over the instruments. This will probably be off once or twice a year for
servicing and I don't want the screws to look beat up.
As well are there any problems with an all black plane?( other then personal
preference)
Tom Martin, St. Thomas Ontario. 82hrs and still climbing!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tedd McHenry <tedd(at)idacom.hp.com> |
| Subject: | Landing in the snow |
> Could someone familiar with landing in that white fluffy stuff describe a
> few things for me.
Steve:
When I was with the Canadian air force I flew Twin Otters on skis. I can
answer your questions from that perspective, but some things might not
apply to light aircraft.
> 1. Can a tri-gear (rv6a) be fitted with skiis?
Well, a Twin Otter is trigear, and it works great on skis. With trigear
in fresh snow, it's very important to "drag" yourself a runway with
several passes. We generally did one pass on the mains at just below
flying speed, followed by one or two more passes on the mains bed in the
tracks, followed by a pass with the nose gear on the snow, and finally the
landing. The first pass is the most critical, of course, because that's
your "runway", so you want it to be straight and into the wind. We also
use to taxi through a "dog-bone" turn at each end before stopping, so
we had nice turn-arounds. Some of this might be overkill for a lighter
airplane (our gross weight was 14,000 lb).
> 2. What condition does the snow have to be in to land? Can you land in
> waist deep powder? (more than once :)
We landed in some pretty deep snow. I've heard of people landing in
waist deep, but I've never done it myself. There's quite a variety of
snow types, and of course depth is only one variable. I had a "moment"
once landing in snow that was about two feet deep: I let the mains pop
out of the track I had dragged, and with the extra drag we could only
accelerate to about 5 or 10 knots below T-O speed, even at max torque. We
blasted down the lake for about a mile or two that way until we ran into a
spot where the wind shifted and picked up a bit. Turning into the stronger
headwind gave us enough lift to rise out of the snow a bit a pick up enough
speed to start planing and accelerating, and eventually take off.
One problem with an RV might be prop clearance. If the snow is deep,
your nose gear is going to sink in a bit, and you could be stirring snow
with the prop. I have no idea what the implications of that would be,
but I suppose they could be serious if you sunk in enough.
> 3. How flat does the surface need to be? Is relatively flat good enough, or
> do small bumps cause huge problems? Is it common to look down and say,
> "that looks like a good spot." Or is it more of a check with the locals to
> see where is safe enough.
I guess that depends a lot on your gear, and the size of plane. I would
think that, with an RV, you'd want a pretty smooth surface. Depending on
the snow, the bumps can be either soft or hard. Soft is better .
Most lake surfaces are as smooth as a slightly whoopy grass strip, and the
snow does cushion the shock loads somewhat.
I wouldn't even think of ski flying in a new area without at least
discussing it with experienced local pilots. There are too many variables,
many of which are not visible from the air.
> 4. Why do I ask? I like to downhill ski, could I fly over to a favorite ski
> resort that has 50 miles of x-country skiing land, pick a nice open spot to
> land and walla, I'm at the ski resort ready to hit the slopes. Or am I
> being un-realistic.
I'm planning to do the same sort of thing with my RV-6 when it's done. To
be honest, I think the tail dragger is probably a much better configuration
for that sort of work. If there's a lake there, reliably frozen, that's
likely to be your best option. I don't know what part of the world you're
in. Around here (Alberta, Canada), the lakes are pretty reliable for about
four or five months of the year. I've never landed on snow that wasn't on
a lake or a runway, but I can imagine a lot of potential hazards, mostly
from nasty things hidden under the snow (fences, tree stumps, that sort of
thing).
You need to consider a lot of things you might not consider in non-ski
flying. Off the top of my head:
- snow and ice in the controls
- different flight plan considerations (flight itinerary vs. flight
plan)
- cold starting
- fuel planning (it's probably not available where you're going)
- weather (what's going to happen while your plane is parked on
the snow--will be buried, will it get stuck, will you have VFR
conditions when it's time to go home)
- reasonable winter survival gear and knowledge if you plan to
land away from civilization (a good idea even if you don't _plan_
to land away from civilization)
- make damn sure your ELT works
On the positive side, ski flying is tons of fun. The first time I flew on
skis I had to keep telling myself it was legal, because it's so much fun it
feels like it shouldn't be!
Good luck.
Tedd McHenry
tedd(at)idacom.hp.com
Edmonton, AB
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Day" <sday(at)pharmcomp.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Landing in the snow |
>>1. Can a tri-gear (rv6a) be fitted with skiis?
>
>I seem to recall a Piper Tri-Pacer on skiis. (At least I think that
>I remember one.) The castoring nose wheel might be a problem.
One more thing, when you said the nose wheel might be a problem. Is it a
free castoring type nosewheel? If so, I'd probably have to come up with
some mechanism to lock it straight for landing???? Or maybe not.
At what speed can you keep the nosewheel off the ground in an rv6a?
I'm use to an ultralight where I taxi around with my nosewheel held just off
the ground at 10mph or so.
-Steve Day
sday(at)pharmcomp.com
(CK ID - RV6a RV for short)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
>
[snip!]
> As well are there any problems with an all black plane?( other then personal
> preference)
> Tom Martin, St. Thomas Ontario. 82hrs and still climbing!
>
Only problem I know of is it will be HOT on sunny days. Also that
mught lead to more "wing rippling" when the wing skins expand in the
heat.
Randall Henderson
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: Notching HS (Correction) & VS notes |
John Pallister said:
>
> 1. Be sure you are measuring angular deflection of the elevator
> center-line... NOT the angle of the elevator skin surface (makes a big
> difference!). Here's where an electronic level (e.g., "Smart Level") is
> useful... as you can simply add the starting angle of the elevator surface to
> the total deflection angle of the surface in the down position.
I'm not sure I understand correctly.Here's what I did, see if it makes
sense: I set my elevators in the neutral position then put my Smart
Level on the elevator surface, and "zeroed" it so that even though it
was really sitting at an angle it read zero. Then I could read the
deflection directly. This accomplishes the same thing you are talking
about, right? There shouldn't be any error measuring the angle from the
surface as long as the starting point is "zeroed"....?
I did the same thing with my ailerons, BTW.
Randall Henderson
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Variprime stockists |
| From: | Bill Downey <billd(at)ibmoto.com> |
>From the Dupont Web pages:
You can reach the DuPont Customer Telecontact Center by:
calling our 24-hour Customer Information Center line (U.S.
callers only)
1-800-441-7515
calling our main switchboard 1-302-774-1000 (from anywhere
in the world)
sending E-mail to info(at)dupont.com
Thank you for your interest in DuPont! We look forward to hearing
from you.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Variprime stockists |
At 02:24 PM 1/4/96 GMT, you wrote:
>[This note has been sent to the following InterNet address(es):
>rvlist(at)matronics.com]
>
>
>We're trying to find a stockist of Variprime here in the sunny United Kindom.
>
>Does anyone in the US have a name/number at Du Pont in the US that I can call
>to get info?
>
>Thanks
>Carol de Solla/David Coleman (Working on RV6 wings in sub-zero temperatures!
>And we don't care!)
>de_solla_carol(at)jpmorgan.com
>
> I have two numbers for Dupont. Don't know how current they are.
1-800-677-2775 (main number?) 1-800-338-7668 Technical Assistance
Bob Skinner RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Tank Slosh Removal |
>
>>> I think I will try to open the hummer up by cutting
>>> access holes in the rear baffle on each bay, somehow cleaning out the
>>> lovingly applied slosh, and then closing the thing back up. A few
>>> questions:
>>
>> Don't fix it if it aint broke. '85W has run with the slosh in the tanks
>>for years and I have seen only a few flakes.
>>
>> Chris
>>
> I concurr. I've been flying N925RV (RV-6A) for 2 1/2 Years and not seen
>any flakes. If you did the job right the first time, you won't have any
>problems. If you fly it and start seeing a problem, then fix it then.
>
>Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
>wstucklen(at)aol.com
>
>
I, too, concur. Been flying 3 years+ and have seen no flakes at all. I have
heard that auto gas may cause the slosh to fail... I've used avgas only.
Dana Breda
N138DB
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert Busick <rbusick(at)nmsu.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Landing in the snow |
> 4. Why do I ask? I like to downhill ski, could I fly over to a favorite ski
> resort that has 50 miles of x-country skiing land, pick a nice open spot to
> land and walla, I'm at the ski resort ready to hit the slopes. Or am I
> being un-realistic.
>
> -Thanks for any comments
>
> -Steve Day
> sday(at)pharmcomp.com
> (CK ID - RV6a RV for short)
>
Steve
I'm appalled at the restrictions that most american ski resorts
place upon skiers, off limit areas and such. In Europe I have seen
exactly what you described but never, never in America. I have also seen
hang gliders, ultralights and parasails operate right off of the slopes.
The only place I know that allows hang gliding in the US is at Telluride
and then you have to be an employee of the ski corporation. Now that
many private airstrips will not let you land because of liability, I
think you would cause quite a commotion when landing your RV at a ski
resort. Don't forget a ski resort in the winter has big mountains with a
lot of real tricky air, clouds, fog and ice fog. However the angle fire
ski resort in NM is about 1/2 mile from the lifts, and if the runway is
plowed you won't need skis!
Good luck. Let us know what resorts you are thinking of trying
this at.
Bob Busick
RV-6
rbusick(at)nmsu.edu>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tedd McHenry <tedd(at)idacom.hp.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Landing in the snow |
> >>1. Can a tri-gear (rv6a) be fitted with skiis?
> >
> >I seem to recall a Piper Tri-Pacer on skiis. (At least I think that
> >I remember one.) The castoring nose wheel might be a problem.
>
>
> One more thing, when you said the nose wheel might be a problem. Is it a
> free castoring type nosewheel? If so, I'd probably have to come up with
> some mechanism to lock it straight for landing???? Or maybe not.
>
> At what speed can you keep the nosewheel off the ground in an rv6a?
>
> I'm use to an ultralight where I taxi around with my nosewheel held just off
> the ground at 10mph or so.
>
>
> -Steve Day
> sday(at)pharmcomp.com
> (CK ID - RV6a RV for short)
I would think the castering nosegear will be a problem. How will you
steer it while taxiing? I didn't think of it until you mentioned it, but
the Twin Otters I flew on skis had hydraulic nosegear steering.
I have seen an ultralight trigear on skis (one of the two crazy Frechmen
who flew to the north pole in ultralights a few years ago), but I didn't
notice how the nosegear steering worked.
A little vertical stab would hold it straight in flight, but taxiing could
be a major problem.
Tedd McHenry
tedd(at)idacom.hp.com
Edmonton, AB
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | J.Ken_Hitchmough(at)magic.ca (J.Ken Hitchmough) |
| Subject: | Re: Parking Brakes |
>Reading with interest the discussion of parking valves purchased
>from Spruce. Three are shown in catalogue - Cleveland, Matco and
>Scott. Which one seems best suited for RV6A, dual brake install-
>ation.
Cathy and Dale,
The one to use is the Cleveland. We used this on on the AirBeetle and I've
installed one on my '6A just above the port pedals. From there, I have two
legnths of aluminum tubing running down behind my centre console the out to
the wheels. My installation may be slightly different to what you would do as
I have a spring steel gear mounted behind the spar.
Ken
ready to paint
--
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Magic Online Services Toronto Inc. (416) 591-6490
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dierks(at)austin.ibm.com |
| Subject: | paint time (fwd) |
I just painted my RV4 and had the same concern.
I decided to use SS screws and painted most of the items seperatly
and then installed with the SS screws.
Note that most of these screws are structural type screws (have an
x on the head) so you need to order the proper SS screws.
I got mine from Alexander however I later found a note in the RVator
that Van's sells these now as well (and lower cost of course).
What I painted seperate (no screws) was the wing tanks, the top
cover over the inst. panel, the various insp. covers and fairings.
The only problem I have found is that if a screw does not go into
the panel perfectly straight (90 degrees to the surface) then
this puts a stress point on the paint area under the screw head
and it will tend to wrinkle the paint under the head.
This is typically not a problem but I had a few screws on that
panel that covers all the instruments and a few of the screws
that go into the firewall area were not square and cut into the
paint.
I used SS Tinnerman washers under the screws where ever fiberglass
was used, like the Spinner, wheel pants, and fairings.
I also used #6 SS screws to hold on the fiberglass wingtips.
You can use an elect. drill/screwdriver to drive the screws in
but I stop short and hand tighten them the final turn or so.
Herman
> From root Thu Jan 4 15:06:54 1996
> Errors-To: bounces(at)matronics.com
> Date: 04 Jan 96 14:30:22 EST
> From: "Thomas N. Martin" <compuserve.com!103212.65(at)matronics.com>
> To: all
> Subject: RV-List: paint time
> Message-Id: <960104193021_103212.65_IHF66-1(at)CompuServe.COM>
> Sender: owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>
> Well it is time to paint my new RV-4. I have some Questions regarding all the
> screws in the plane. Should I repalace them with stainless steel. If so should
> it be done before or after painting. In particular I am thinking about the panel
> over the instruments. This will probably be off once or twice a year for
> servicing and I don't want the screws to look beat up.
> As well are there any problems with an all black plane?( other then personal
> preference)
> Tom Martin, St. Thomas Ontario. 82hrs and still climbing!
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------
*NOTICE for internet mail*: Any ideas or thoughts expressed here are my
own and are independent of my employer.
Herman Dierks, Dept. E54S, AWSD, Austin, Texas
mail: dierks(at)austin.ibm.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KUKULSKIM(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Is it in yet? |
Thanks to those who responded to my questions about tight fitting spars.
Since I sent the mesage I called Van's and talked to Tom. He said the
important concern was whether you could get the spars in. He recommended the
use of 2-3 guys at the wingtip to wiggle/manuver the wing in and 2-3 more at
the fuselage to stabilize it and keep it from shifting.
I did this with just myself and my wife (5'2", but mean when she needs to
be); getting the wing in was not a big problem, but she could not keep the
fuselage from moving when I pulled on the wing.
Tom also recommended the use of dry lubricant (graphite-effective but messy)
or talcum powder (easily cleaned off later); not recommended was oil (could
attract dirt, leading to galling) or WD-40 (evaporates too quickly - okay on
the way in but not on the way out).
I also asked about methods to "loosen" the fit; he said they had not yet had
a person with a spar that wouldn't fit. To correct such a problem would
entail removing the rivets from one side of the carrythrough bulkhead,
inserting a spacer to get the proper clearance, and then re-riveting the
bulkhead, redrilling and using oversize rivets as required. Obviously a lot
of work, with a risk of misaligning something with the structure out of the
jig.
Incidently, I did use a spacer in the carrythrough slot when building the
fuselage in the jig. It was 1-7/32" thick as specified in the RV-4 manual.
Tom said 1-1/4" spacers would not be a bad idea, allowing that 1/32" for any
slop.
Hope this is helpful to anyone else sweating out the fit of their wings.
Mike Kukulski (KUKULSKIM(at)aol.com)
RV-4: Fuselage Innards
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
>>
>[snip!]
>> As well are there any problems with an all black plane?( other then personal
>> preference)
>> Tom Martin, St. Thomas Ontario. 82hrs and still climbing!
>>
>
>Only problem I know of is it will be HOT on sunny days. Also that
>mught lead to more "wing rippling" when the wing skins expand in the
>heat.
>
>Randall Henderson
>RV-6
>
And in flight visibility (safety) wouldn't be as good. Bob Skinner
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
>Well it is time to paint my new RV-4. I have some Questions regarding all the
>screws in the plane. Should I repalace them with stainless steel. If so should
>it be done before or after painting. In particular I am thinking about the
panel
>over the instruments. This will probably be off once or twice a year for
>servicing and I don't want the screws to look beat up.
>As well are there any problems with an all black plane?( other then personal
>preference)
>Tom Martin, St. Thomas Ontario. 82hrs and still climbing!
>
>Tom, On my RV-6, I used all stainless steel screws except for the # 8 screw
in the fuel tanks (and a few other misc. screw) . Used stainless on wing
tips, wing root fairings, empanage fairing, spinner (truss head, not
countersunk), cowl and inspection plates. I worried that the pressure of
the screws on the paint in the dimples would cause the paint to buckle. I
have seen this on other airplanes. I had one or two that did chip a little
and I touched them up with a fine artist brush. Thought about the fuel
tanks for a long time before I painted them in case the tank(s) might leak.
So far so good on the tanks, but if you have to take painted screws out, it
would sure make a mess. Bob Skinner
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Francis S. Smidler" <102776.1474(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | New member on the list |
Well, I think I've finally got my system running right and I'm glad that I'm
finally on the list.
My name is Frank Smidler and I'm an RV-6 builder in Indiana. My wings and tail
are both 95% complete and the fuselage skelaton is riveted up and the skins are
just now going on. Not too shabby since I got my wing kit only 8-1/2 months
ago. I'm shooting to have it flying by OSH, with or with-out paint. With a
goal like this I'll at least get it in the air before bad weather moves in next
fall.
I'm planning on an O-320 (just located one), basic flight instruments, Grand
Rapids engine monitoring system (any one with experience with it?), com, nav,
GPS and of coarse a CD player. I'm a Mechanical Engineer for a semi-trailer
manuf. so alum. and rivet construction is a pcs of cake but the engine and
systems will be a challenging experience that I'm looking forward to.
I have just mailed the first edition of the "INDIANA RV BUILDERS NEWSLETTER" for
which I am the editor. I hope that it will allow more of us RVators in the
Hoosier state to get together. If this is not enough to keep one man busy I
also have a lovely wife, Trudy, and four kids, ages 15 thru4, which I try hard
not to neglect. All of the kids and the wife have helped when need on the -6.
The 4 year olds small hands come in handy in small areas and the 15 year old now
knows how to buck rivets.
My lofty goals for the -6 includes trips to New Orleans (I can taste the food
now), the west coast and Alaska (hopefully with 2 or 3 friends who have a
similar dream). Otherwise I would like to use it to go to skydiving drop zones
around the Midwests.
Keep on building/flying
FS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Question for RV-6 builders |
>I've got a question for the 6 builders. How does Van recommend you
>terminate the brake line at the caliper? Does he suggest going all
>the way to the caliper with AL tube or using a small piece of flex
>between the caliper and AL tube?
>I decided to use AL tube and have already run it inside my fiberglass
>gear leg farings to the caliper; after hearing of the break in the
>tube the other day on the net I've been trying to decide if I should
>go ahead and replace the tube and use flex at the bottom. This would
>mean cutting the farings but... TIA
>Dan Boudro
>RV-4 N9167Z
>
Dan, On my 6, I went down the front of the gear leg with the al. tubing,
then when at the bottom, curved the line foreward, down and around back up
to the top where the tubing meets with the 90 degree AN fitting. In other
words, a 360 degree coil (vibration loop)in the tubing. No problems so far
after 196 hrs. Bob Skinner
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
| Subject: | Re: PPG Primer Products |
>
> I have been using PPG DX 1791 self etching primer on my wings. I
>like the way it goes on and the slight brass/gold color once it is
>dried. This week I went back to my PPG paint store and the seemingly
>knowledgeable salesman told be that the DX 1791 was not very good for
>corrosion protection and that their best product was DP 48/50 (number
>depends on the color, available in five colors). He convinced me to go
>with the DP 50 rather than the DX 1791.
>
> A question for those that know or use PPG products, just how
>corrosion proof is the self etching primer, and should I go over the wing
>areas that are metal to metal with the DP 50? I have already primed the
>entire wing with DX 1791. I am worried about weight, but then again, I
>do not want a rusty wing if I should move to the Florida Keys!
>
> Another primer question. What is faying, and what should be used
>to protect against it. Will a good primer solve this problem?
>
>Thanks
>Bob Busick
>RV-6
>rbusick(at)nmsu.edu
>
Bob: The PPG data sheet (Form P-141(4/91)for DX 1791 says "Self Etching
Primer (DX 1791) is specifically designed to provide excellent adhesion and
corrosion resistance to properly prepared steel and aluminum while offering
fast drying characteristics---"
You might want to call PPG at 216-572-6111 (tech assistance) as I've found
some paint shops are not up to par in the advice dept. I'll bet they could
fix you up with all sorts of reading material.
From: JamesCone(at)aol.com
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 1996 00:06:04 -0500
Subject: RV-List: Message to Bill Brooks (Apologies to RV-list - ignore)
Bill,
I could not figure out your E-mail address from the headers on the RV-list so
am sending this to you by way of the RV-list. "Listers" can ignore or read
as they wish. I will send you the 1995 issues of my newsletter to your old
address. You can just send me your donation, ($10. for both year's issues
plus a couple of dollars for foreign postage), when you get them and give me
your new address for the later issues. The January 1996 issue is at the
printers and will be mailed out soon. I will send that to your old address
as well. Thanks for your interest in my newsletter.
Jim Cone
jamescone(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RAINPOOF(at)aol.com |
am requesting info on how to get info or mail from this address
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DSlavens(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: paint time (fwd) |
> The only problem I have found is that if a screw does not go into
> the panel perfectly straight (90 degrees to the surface) then
> this puts a stress point on the paint area under the screw head
> and it will tend to wrinkle the paint under the head.
> This is typically not a problem but I had a few screws on that
> panel that covers all the instruments and a few of the screws
> that go into the firewall area were not square and cut into the
> paint.
To prevent this problem, use nylon washers under the screw heads.
Dick Slavens waiting for RV-8
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | William Garrett <wgarrett(at)mciunix.mciu.k12.pa.us> |
After waiting nearly 3 months for my heated pitot tube from Wicks (they
did have the cheapest price) I now am looking for some advice from those
of you who have installed these things (the standard Piper type).
My questions are these:
1. Does anyone have plans for a mount for this thing? I saw on John
Hovan's home page an ad for one that costs about $100 but I'd sure like
to make my own if possible and save some money.
2. Mine came with an oval steel tube that appears as if it should slip
over the vertical part of the tube. Is this supposed to be used as part
of the mount?
3. Van's plans show that the tube should be mounted 6"-7" below the
wing. Have those of you who installed heated ones adhered to this dimension?
Since the vertical dimension of the tube itself is only about 3.5", it
seems to me that this means I'd need an unusually long extension on my
mount. I don't recall the Cherokee's I learned to fly in having the
pitots hanging this far below the wing.
4. What length wire did you use when you soldered it to the "plug" that
attaches to the pitot tube, enough to reach all the way to the instrument
panel or just enough to reach to some intermediate point where you made
a second connection?
5. Where did you actually mount the tube, in what rib bay and where in
relation to the spar?
I'd appreciate answers to any or all of these questions either to the
list or to me personally.
Thanks in advance.
Bill
Bill Garrett
1571 Old Ridge Road
Pottstown, PA 19465
(610) 469-6048
Mathematics Teacher
RV-6A (airplane) Builder
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EagleData(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Chicago RV Builders/Pilots? |
Any RV builders in the Chicago area to talk/meet with?
John Duprey
Prairie View, IL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | William Garrett <wgarrett(at)mciunix.mciu.k12.pa.us> |
| Subject: | Forwarded mail.... |
Please excuse the mess below. My antiquated editor won't let me get into
an already sent message to edit it and I discovered after I sent the
message below that I made a mistake in the e-mail address. Sorry for
confusing the issue but I really am looking for some answers to the
questions below.
Thanks,
Bill
Bill Garrett
1571 Old Ridge Road
Pottstown, PA 19465
(610) 469-6048
Mathematics Teacher
RV-6A (airplane) Builder
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 1996 03:08:24 -0500 (EST)
From: William Garrett <wgarrett(at)mciunix.mciu.k12.pa.us>
After waiting nearly 3 months for my heated pitot tube from Wicks (they
did have the cheapest price) I now am looking for some advice from those
of you who have installed these things (the standard Piper type).
My questions are these:
1. Does anyone have plans for a mount for this thing? I saw on John
Hovan's home page an ad for one that costs about $100 but I'd sure like
to make my own if possible and save some money.
2. Mine came with an oval steel tube that appears as if it should slip
over the vertical part of the tube. Is this supposed to be used as part
of the mount?
3. Van's plans show that the tube should be mounted 6"-7" below the
wing. Have those of you who installed heated ones adhered to this dimension?
Since the vertical dimension of the tube itself is only about 3.5", it
seems to me that this means I'd need an unusually long extension on my
mount. I don't recall the Cherokee's I learned to fly in having the
pitots hanging this far below the wing.
4. What length wire did you use when you soldered it to the "plug" that
attaches to the pitot tube, enough to reach all the way to the instrument
panel or just enough to reach to some intermediate point where you made
a second connection?
5. Where did you actually mount the tube, in what rib bay and where in
relation to the spar?
I'd appreciate answers to any or all of these questions either to the
list or to me personally.
Thanks in advance.
Bill
Bill Garrett
1571 Old Ridge Road
Pottstown, PA 19465
(610) 469-6048
Mathematics Teacher
RV-6A (airplane) Builder
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JPallist(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Notching HS (Correction) & VS notes |
>Here's what I did, see if it makes
>sense: I set my elevators in the neutral position then put my Smart
>Level on the elevator surface, and "zeroed" it so that even though it
>was really sitting at an angle it read zero. Then I could read the
>deflection directly. This accomplishes the same thing you are talking
>about, right?
Right. John P.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Smith, Hal" <smith1h(at)macsmtpgw.spring-branch.isd.tenet.edu> |
| Subject: | RE: Math Teachers |
I do not know the answer to your question as I an just completing the tail.
RV6A's must appeal to math teachers. I teach math at Spring Woods High in
Spring Branch, Tx. (A sub. of Houston). Good luck. I am interested to see
the answers as I plan a similiar installation.
Hal Smith (Love Trig. and RV6's)
_______________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rv-list(at)matronics.com on Fri, Jan 5, 1996 4:02 AM |
RFC Header:Received: by macsmtpgw.spring-branch.isd.tenet.edu with SMTP;5 Jan
1996 04:02:31 U
| From: | William Garrett <mciunix.mciu.k12.pa.us!wgarrett(at)matronics.com> |
After waiting nearly 3 months for my heated pitot tube from Wicks (they
did have the cheapest price) I now am looking for some advice from those
of you who have installed these things (the standard Piper type).
My questions are these:
1. Does anyone have plans for a mount for this thing? I saw on John
Hovan's home page an ad for one that costs about $100 but I'd sure like
to make my own if possible and save some money.
2. Mine came with an oval steel tube that appears as if it should slip
over the vertical part of the tube. Is this supposed to be used as part
of the mount?
3. Van's plans show that the tube should be mounted 6"-7" below the
wing. Have those of you who installed heated ones adhered to this dimension?
Since the vertical dimension of the tube itself is only about 3.5", it
seems to me that this means I'd need an unusually long extension on my
mount. I don't recall the Cherokee's I learned to fly in having the
pitots hanging this far below the wing.
4. What length wire did you use when you soldered it to the "plug" that
attaches to the pitot tube, enough to reach all the way to the instrument
panel or just enough to reach to some intermediate point where you made
a second connection?
5. Where did you actually mount the tube, in what rib bay and where in
relation to the spar?
I'd appreciate answers to any or all of these questions either to the
list or to me personally.
Thanks in advance.
Bill
Bill Garrett
1571 Old Ridge Road
Pottstown, PA 19465
(610) 469-6048
Mathematics Teacher
RV-6A (airplane) Builder
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 1996 07:18:01 -0800
From: Chris Ruble <cruble(at)cisco.com>
Subject: RV-List: Re: Pitot mount
>
> After waiting nearly 3 months for my heated pitot tube from Wicks (they
> did have the cheapest price) I now am looking for some advice from those
> of you who have installed these things (the standard Piper type).
> My questions are these:
I sent a Dwg. to Hovan, I'm not sure if he has put it on the WWW yet.
Let me know if you want a copy, electronic or paper.
Chris
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Bill
>
> Bill Garrett
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ernst Totland" <ernto(at)weald.air.saab.se> |
Hi,
Just back from my Christmas/New Year vacation, I see there
have been a few postings concerning the rudder pedal 'AD'
mentioned in my intro. It was actually a 'Mandatory
change notice' from Vans dated 5. Sept 1990 (even published
in RVator Sept 1990). As pointed out in some of the postings,
it is about adding gussets to the floor mounted pedal tube/arm.
New to me, though, was the failure of the pedal itself. It is
a well proven design that should be sufficient in normal use.
I am sure Van's will come up with a fix if considered necessary.
I'll keep an eye on it anyway.
Thank you for the information.
Ernst Totland
ernto(at)weald.air.saab.se
RV-6 #20898
SE-XOI
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KHarrill(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: HS Rear spar question |
>Starting my HS spar. One of my 409s fit into the 603 channels just
>fine, but the other one is way off, no matter how I try it. Comparing
>the two 409s, they're nowhere near the same shape. My friend's 409s
>are identical.
>
>If I have one side against the flange, the other end is at least 1/8"
>away from the flange.
>
>I emailed Van's, and Tom said to just cleco the center in, bend the
>ends so they're flush against the flange, and keep drilling/clecoing
>outward. The pre-load should have no effect.
Steve,
I had the same situation with my HS. I pulled the 409 in and
drilled/clecoed/riveted just as Tom suggested. I have also wondered if the
preload would have an effect, but I am just finishing the empennage and have
no experience to share. It did not affect the construction of the HS.
Good Luck
Ken Harrill
RV - 6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Yablon <brian(at)lanart.com> |
Thanks to everyone who replied to my question on HVLP systems. Your
responses clarified things tremendously.
What confused me is a Campbell Haudfeld system I thought was an HVLP
system, but is not (at least in the true sense). It is a gun without
a cup, that is supplied paint under pressure through the hose. No air
is involved. As such, it is more akin to the Wagner Power Painter
family of products, and is probably better suited for shooting
heavy-bodied latex paints at things like houses than polyurethanes at
airplanes.
-Brian
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Brian Yablon Position: Hardware Engineer
LANart Corporation Internet: byablon(at)lanart.com
145 Rosemary Street, Suite D1 Ma-bell: (617) 444-1994 x206
Needham, MA 02194 FAX: (617) 444-3692
LANart: Difference by Design
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Yablon <brian(at)lanart.com> |
| Subject: | Air tool oilers... |
Can a fogging-type air tool oiler properly oil tools through 50' of
3/8" air hose? Or will the oil tend to settle out of the air stream
and pool up in the hose? I ask because I read somewhere that the
oiler should be placed as close as possible to the air tool.
-Brian
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Brian Yablon Position: Hardware Engineer
LANart Corporation Internet: byablon(at)lanart.com
145 Rosemary Street, Suite D1 Ma-bell: (617) 444-1994 x206
Needham, MA 02194 FAX: (617) 444-3692
LANart: Difference by Design
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Day" <sday(at)pharmcomp.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Landing in the snow |
>Steve
> I'm appalled at the restrictions that most american ski resorts
>place upon skiers, off limit areas and such. In Europe I have seen
>exactly what you described but never, never in America. I have also seen
>hang gliders, ultralights and parasails operate right off of the slopes.
>The only place I know that allows hang gliding in the US is at Telluride
>and then you have to be an employee of the ski corporation. Now that
>many private airstrips will not let you land because of liability, I
>think you would cause quite a commotion when landing your RV at a ski
>resort. Don't forget a ski resort in the winter has big mountains with a
>lot of real tricky air, clouds, fog and ice fog. However the angle fire
>ski resort in NM is about 1/2 mile from the lifts, and if the runway is
>plowed you won't need skis!
>
> Good luck. Let us know what resorts you are thinking of trying
>this at.
I'm with you about the restrictions, it is ridiculous. Last winter I did
some skiing in Switzerland and sure enough, people doing exactly what they
want (parasail, hang gliding etc.)
The ski area I had in mind is in Oregon. Mt. Bachelor has some real long
really thought about all the implications that Tedd brought up, like the
frozen snow that would no doubt get stuck in the control surfaces. I could
imagine a frozen chunk of snow stuck up around the elevator somewhere but is
not restricting movement. You fly back home, the temperature starts to rise
and this chunk of snow drops into whatever place Murphies Law has decided
for it and jams something up real good. Now I practice the sport of
'lawn-darting'. :(
I think putting skiis on the rv to get close to a ski resort is more of a
novelty. Not saying it wouldn't be a blast, but I think with the
restrictions and so forth, it would be more trouble than it's worth just to
taxi up to the resort. There are plenty of ski resorts that have nearby
airports with shuttles running to the ski area.
but it was fun to think about.......
-Steve Day
sday(at)pharmcomp.com
(CK ID - RV6a RV for short)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Hovan <hovan(at)apple.com> |
| Subject: | Web Page Changes... |
Hi All,
I have made some significant changes to the RV web page. Most =
importantly I have added a mirror site. Many of you have written to =
me saying the performance has been slow. This new "mirror site" =
will offer much improved performance when downloading photo's and =
viewing the information.
The RV data can now be obtained by these two addresses....
=A0
http://atlantis.austin.apple.com/people.pages/jhovan/home.html
(Now has link to mirror site listed below.)
or
http://packlid/jhovan/home.html
If you haven't visited in a while, the Web page has grown to almost =
12 megs of data. So, stop on by.
New additions include:
1. FAQ section
2. Rich Klee's wing spar riveting setup.
3. Lycoming engine code document.
4. Tips on installing pop rivets.
5. Heating skins discussion summary.
and more...
thanks,
John
ps. Chris Ruble: I wasn't able to de-code the pitot tube drawing. =
Please send a .gif or pict file.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle (Matt G. Dralle 510-606-1001) |
| Subject: | Bounced Mail To Jack Gageby... |
Hello RVers,
I'm sorry for the flood of bounced messages from email account of Jack Gageby.
I just phoned him and apparently the email at Litton was down for about
a week and came back just this morning bouncing all of those messages. I
also talked to them about the fact that their mailer doesn't deal with bounced
email correctly i.e. returned mail should have gone to "owner-rv-list" not
back to "rv-list". In any case, Jack is moving to a different email account
that will hopefully not have these problems...
Matt Dralle
RV-List Admin.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dierks(at)austin.ibm.com |
| Subject: | Re: paint time (fwd) |
These are 100 degree counter sunk screws so you can not use
nylon washers under them. I know about the nylon washers and
do use them under PK screws and flat head screws, but not many
of those on a RV.
Herman
>
> > The only problem I have found is that if a screw does not go into
> > the panel perfectly straight (90 degrees to the surface) then
> > this puts a stress point on the paint area under the screw head
> > and it will tend to wrinkle the paint under the head.
> > This is typically not a problem but I had a few screws on that
> > panel that covers all the instruments and a few of the screws
> > that go into the firewall area were not square and cut into the
> > paint.
>
> To prevent this problem, use nylon washers under the screw heads.
>
> Dick Slavens waiting for RV-8
>
Herman Dierks, Dept. E54S, AWSD, Austin, Texas
mail: dierks(at)austin.ibm.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Ruble <cruble(at)cisco.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Air tool oilers... |
>
> Can a fogging-type air tool oiler properly oil tools through 50' of
> 3/8" air hose? Or will the oil tend to settle out of the air stream
> and pool up in the hose? I ask because I read somewhere that the
> oiler should be placed as close as possible to the air tool.
>
> -Brian
I used a foger and had problems getting the oil to the tool. Also...
don't use the same hose for paint.
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert Busick <rbusick(at)nmsu.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Landing in the snow |
On Fri, 5 Jan 1996, Steve Day wrote:
> I think putting skiis on the rv to get close to a ski resort is more of a
> novelty. Not saying it wouldn't be a blast, but I think with the
> restrictions and so forth, it would be more trouble than it's worth just to
> taxi up to the resort. There are plenty of ski resorts that have nearby
> airports with shuttles running to the ski area.
>
> but it was fun to think about.......
>
> -Steve Day
> sday(at)pharmcomp.com
> (CK ID - RV6a RV for short)
I too think it would be much fun to fly an RV off of skis. About
twenty years ago when stationed in Alaska we used to fly our R/C models
off of the snow. All the club members agreed, flying off of snow was much
more preferable than flying off of our dirt/cinder surface. What I
learned was that the landings were just beautiful, no bounces and you
never could tell exactly when the plane touched down. But on the down
side if there was some obstruction in the snow, like a foot print or car
tracks, you really could do some serious damage to the landing gear.
Also we discovered that putting skis on a conventional gear was pretty
straight forward, however the ski on the nose wheel (weenie wheel) was just
courting disaster. The rigging and the maintenace ware unbelievable, even
for an R/C model!! When using tricyle gear, we always had steerable nose
wheel skis, not sure
how to maneuver on the ground without a steerable nose wheel ski for a
tricyle gear aircraft. If you are going fast enough, the rudder will help
some, depending on the snow conditions, ruts, ice and wind. If it is a
strong wind you are doomed to takiing into the wind, or sailing the A/C
like you would do for floats. Taildraggers did
not seem to have as much problem taxiing and turning on the snow. One
thing to keep in mind is that the skis become shock absorbers, they must
have some flexibility and should not be rigidly mounted to the A/C.
Either the 94 or 95 Vans calendar had a picture of an RV-4 on skiis. It
looked to me like it was designed with a lot of flexibility in the
landing and flying wires.
The depth of the snow that you can land in is determined by how
long and wide the skis are. The plane will float on top of the snow if
the ski surface area keeps the pounds/square foot loading light enough.
While in Alaska I knew of many bush pilots that landed in snow too deep
for them to take off. The solution is to dig out the snow shoes and pack
down the runway! For two people this is about an eight hour job for a
piper cub!
Bob Busick
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bcos(at)ix.netcom.com (William Costello ) |
| Subject: | Reserved N-number question |
Hi Folks,
I would like some info re reserving an N-number.
1. How do you do it? i.e. what forms from where to where?
2. What does it cost?
3. Does it (reservation) have to be renewed periodically? Cost?
4. Do you think it is worth it, since I will probably not be flying
for about 2 to 3 more years?
BTW, I just ordered Duckworks landing lights from Don 'The Duck' Wentz
and a landing light flasher controller from Rich Klee. I plan to set
them all up on the floor and try them, so if anyone is interested in my
'take' on them prior to installation, just give me a holler. Don't
expect to have them for a couple weeks of so, though.
Very best wishes for '96 guys and gals and keep those rivet guns going!
Bill
--
___ _______________________
\ \ _ _ / /
\ /? \ / \ / Bill Costello \
X-*#####*******......./ Chicago /
o/\ \ \_\ \ RV-6 on emp. \
\__\ \ bcos(at)ix.netcom.com /
\______________________\
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RFlunker(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Right Elevator - Need Advice |
Hello everyone!
I'm working on the right elevator and need some advice regarding the best
sequence of doing things so that everything comes out correctly. I'm hoping
those of you that are past this point can shed some enlightening thoughts..
My question is quite simply how do I proceed in a manner that provides the
best chance of a good fit of the counterbalance relative to the HS. At this
point I have the skin and spar completed including having the tip ribs
attached to the spar. I have not attached the counterweight skin to the tip
ribs, and am unsure at what point I do that. Can someone talk me through
what you did??
Thanks in advance.
Dick Flunker
RV-6A, Allen Tx RFLUNKER(at)AOL.COM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Boudro <dboudro(at)nmia.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Question for RV-6 builders |
Thanks Bob,
from the response I got I'm going to leave it the way it is
and get on with the project. Sent a couple of messages but I think
there were problems with the server.
Dan Boudro
Albuquerque
RV-4 N9167Z
On Thu, 4 Jan 1996, Bob Skinner wrote:
> >I've got a question for the 6 builders. How does Van recommend you
> >terminate the brake line at the caliper? Does he suggest going all
> >the way to the caliper with AL tube or using a small piece of flex
> >between the caliper and AL tube?
> >I decided to use AL tube and have already run it inside my fiberglass
> >gear leg farings to the caliper; after hearing of the break in the
> >tube the other day on the net I've been trying to decide if I should
> >go ahead and replace the tube and use flex at the bottom. This would
> >mean cutting the farings but... TIA
> >Dan Boudro
> >RV-4 N9167Z
> >
> Dan, On my 6, I went down the front of the gear leg with the al. tubing,
> then when at the bottom, curved the line foreward, down and around back up
> to the top where the tubing meets with the 90 degree AN fitting. In other
> words, a 360 degree coil (vibration loop)in the tubing. No problems so far
> after 196 hrs. Bob Skinner
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Elon Ormsby" <Elon.Ormsby(at)quickmail.llnl.gov> |
REGARDING IFR/FAR
Randal Hendenderson writes...
Please, where does it say Nav and/or Comm radios (other than GPS) have
to meet a TSO for part 91 IFR operations? I'm not saying they DON't have
to, but if they do I'd like to see the reg.
------------------------------------------------
Randall, I don't want to get into a FARing contest (no "t" implied!). So this
is going to be brief. Also, I think you transposed a digit and you meant
91.215 (Transponder stuff) and not 91.125 (ATC light signals) as you stated.
When I said .."you must meet all applicable FAR's just as in a certified
aircraft" - I did not mean to imply everything is TSO'd to be legal. It only
has to be FUNCTIONAL. And I am defining FUNCTIONAL as not only performing as
designed but also certified or tested or calibrated or dated "as required"
for the device.
Obviously, the whiskey compass has no TSO as well as airspeed indicator,
engine tach...and a whole bunch of other stuff. These are all required by:
91.205 ...civil aircraft instrument requirements...
(d)(1) requires all of the VFR stuff PLUS...
(2) thru (9) all of the other IFR stuff. Some TSO some not.
91.319 EXPERIMENTAL Certificates: Operating Limitations...
C. The administrator authorizes special operating limitations...
(d)(2) Must operate under DAY VFR unless....
(e). The Admin. "may" prescribe additional limitations...
The point I'm making is that your aircraft is certified for IFR (by the admin
or designee) as a "complete system". Each component of the system must meet
functionality (as I defined above). You can certainly have more than needed
but you cannot operate with LESS, unless you have an "Minimum Equipment List
and Letter of Authorization (see 91.213 inop instruments) and that
constitutes a STC!
Happy FARing,
Elon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tedd McHenry <tedd(at)idacom.hp.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Landing in the snow |
> I think putting skiis on the rv to get close to a ski resort is more of a
> novelty. Not saying it wouldn't be a blast, but I think with the
> restrictions and so forth, it would be more trouble than it's worth just to
> taxi up to the resort. There are plenty of ski resorts that have nearby
> airports with shuttles running to the ski area.
>
> but it was fun to think about.......
Yeah, probably right. I think you should consider a little ski flying
just for its own sake. It is a blast (although I'm speaking out of turn
a little, never having done it in an RV; maybe it's a pain in the neck,
but I doubt it).
I hope to put skis on, fly north to a secluded lake, and do a little
xc skiing, backcounty skiing, or snowshoeing, and maybe camp overnight.
You "southerners" might want to leave the camping part out .
Tedd McHenry
tedd(at)idacom.hp.com
Edmonton, AB
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Hovan <hovan(at)apple.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Web Page Changes... |
Hi All,
Sorry, I made a mistake on the mirror site link. The correct link
is...
http://packlid.austin.apple.com/jhovan/home.html
thanks,
John
>
> Hi All,
>
> I have made some significant changes to the RV web page. Most
> importantly I have added a mirror site. Many of you have written to
> me saying the performance has been slow. This new "mirror site"
> will offer much improved performance when downloading photo's and
> viewing the information.
>
> The RV data can now be obtained by these two addresses....
>
>
> http://atlantis.austin.apple.com/people.pages/jhovan/home.html
> (Now has link to mirror site listed below.)
>
> or
>
> http://packlid/jhovan/home.html (THIS IS WRONG!)
>
blah blah blah
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RAINPOOF(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Seattle Area RV-6a Builders |
I am looking for RV-6/6a builders in the Western Washington Area to compare.
Located in Redmond , Hanger in Arlington, EMP Complete, starting wings,
project started 2 months ago after Van's last one week workshop.
Jerry Engel
RV-6a
Rainpoof(at)aol.com (daughter's old name I inherited)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Elon Ormsby" <Elon.Ormsby(at)quickmail.llnl.gov> |
REGARDING IFR/FAR
Randal Hendenderson writes...
Please, where does it say Nav and/or Comm radios (other than GPS) have
to meet a TSO for part 91 IFR operations? I'm not saying they DON't have
to, but if they do I'd like to see the reg.
------------------------------------------------
Randall, I don't want to get into a FARing contest (no "t" implied!). So this
is going to be brief. Also, I think you transposed a digit and you meant
91.215 (Transponder stuff) and not 91.125 (ATC light signals) as you stated.
When I said .."you must meet all applicable FAR's just as in a certified
aircraft" - I did not mean to imply everything is TSO'd to be legal. It only
has to be FUNCTIONAL. And I am defining FUNCTIONAL as not only performing as
designed but also certified or tested or calibrated or dated "as required"
for the device.
Obviously, the whiskey compass has no TSO as well as airspeed indicator,
engine tach...and a whole bunch of other stuff. These are all required by:
91.205 ...civil aircraft instrument requirements...
(d)(1) requires all of the VFR stuff PLUS...
(2) thru (9) all of the other IFR stuff. Some TSO some not.
91.319 EXPERIMENTAL Certificates: Operating Limitations...
C. The administrator authorizes special operating limitations...
(d)(2) Must operate under DAY VFR unless....
(e). The Admin. "may" prescribe additional limitations...
The point I'm making is that your aircraft is certified for IFR (by the admin
or designee) as a "complete system". Each component of the system must meet
functionality (as I defined above). You can certainly have more than needed
but you cannot operate with LESS, unless you have an "Minimum Equipment List
and Letter of Authorization (see 91.213 inop instruments) and that
constitutes a TSO!
Happy FARing,
Elon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | hsutphin(at)ix.netcom.com (hsutphin) |
| Subject: | Re: How do HVLP systems work? |
I also bought an Eaglespray HVLP system from Mel. I have had good results
with it and the reduction of overspray has to be seen to be belived. I
painted my pickup after some major repairs and had excellent results
considering I hadn't picked up a spray gun in over 20 years. I used laquer,
and there was less overspray from the Accuspray gun than with a can of spray
paint! I did not have to spend alot of time wet sanding the laquer and it
had less orange peel than the factory finish had. The air from the turbine
is warm, and OIL FREE, a distinct advantage over the regular compressor. I
plan on using it on my RV when I get to that stage.
Harold
RV-6A //only 11,000 more rivets to go//
>Re: Your questions about Eaglespray HVLP system.
>
>I purchased an Eaglespray unit with the Accuspray gun (the gun was rated a
>top design achievement by Popular Science magazine in 1993, I believe). I
>bought it through Mel Turcanik from a Sport Aviation ad, and he offered a
>discount to EAA members.
>
>I have been very pleased with its performance to date. I have only primed
>with it so far (both Variprime and PPG DP-48) and have had excellent results.
>Cleaning the gun is about on a par with conventional spray equipment.
>
>Scott McDaniel in Phoenix painted his very nice RV-6A using a Croix HVLP (
>owned by the Arizona council of EAA Chapters) and PPG paint and got excellent
>results.
>
>If you don't already have the big compressor needed for the good HVLP guns,
>the turbine systems are a good choice, but they are not cheap - figure
>$600-700.
>
>Hope this helps.
>
>Mike Kukulski (KUKULSKIM(at)aol.com)
>RV-4 Fuselage Innards
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
RVer's---Bad day for flying or building (-18 deg. f this a.m.) so am doing
some computer work today. Been reading through the archive files for
entertainment and enlightenment and keeping in the spirit of helping fellow
RVer's thought that I'd pass along some tips that maybe you can use. I'm
working on my second RV now. Got 196 hrs. on the RV-6. It took me 5 years
but if I'd known how much fun it was going to be, I would have worked harder
on it.
Tips-odds & ends
I used Van's squeezer for the # 6 spar rivets on the first RV.
(Tennis elbow, too much scotch briting) On the second set of spars, I used
the Avery tool. This worked very well. Tip-with the factory head down in
the #6 set, I placed the ram with the hole in it over the rivet. The hole
is a perfect fit. I then tapped the ram lightly to make sure that all of
the flange strips were together. This also is a double check to make sure
the factory head is setting in the #6 set properly. Then I inserted the
flush set and wacked the ram 3 or 4 times with about a 3 lb. hammer. I used
the money saved from not buying the Phlogiston spar to buy TOOLS!, a
pnuematic rivet squeezer, a very worthwhile tool among others.
When making my panel, I laid everything out on Masonite, the same
shape as the alum. panel. I then drilled small holes at the center of each
gauge or instrument and at the four corners of the radio stack cut-out. I
then laid the Masonite over the aluminum panel and marked all of the
centers, etc. so if the Masonite panel turned out OK, I wouldn't have to lay
out everything again. I then cut all holes and cutouts in the Masonite and
mounted all of the inst. and gauges in the Masonite and installed it in the
airplane to make sure everything would fit. It worked so it was a simple
matter to center punch the marks on the alum. panel and make the cut-outs.
Fab air box. I clecoed the FAB bottom to the carb attach plate,
installed the top & bottom cowl and then went in through the bottom cowl
outlet with a block of wood and some body putty and bonded the FAB box to
the cowl bottom. Then took top cowl off, un-clecoed the FAB bottom from the
carb attach plate and removed bottom cowl with the now bonded in FAB box. It
was then easier to fabricate the inlet to box layups. Also, on my FAB
airbox, I put one strip of the baffle material along the top of the fwd part
of the box (above the carb heat door). The other strip of cowl seal I
bonded to the cowl inlet so it comes off with the bottom cowl. In other
words, the FAB box nest in the rubber attached to the inlet. I also made
removable front baffls that attach to the fwd horizontal baffels and fit
under the lip on the bottom cowl. These two modifications made removal and
installing the bottom cowl a lot easier. On the Tri gear, it should be
realy easy as you don't have to clear the gear legs.
Cowl hinge pins. On the two hinge pins that attach the top and
bottom cowl, I scotch brited all of the cad plating off (therby reducing the
dia. slightly.) I degreased the pins and put a light coat of "Moly Coat G"
which is a molyibdimum disulfide (sp?) lubricant that I got years ago for
the lubrication of firearms. It takes very little and doesn't gum up. It's
very slick and kind of bonds into the metal. I then slid the pins into the
hinges several times to transfer the moly to the hinge loops. The pins were
easy to install and remove, no need to drill them in with a drill. As the
hinge loops wear over the years, I can purchase new pins and keep the cad
plating on to make up for a little of the wear. For pin security, I bent a
hook in the end, screwed two drilled, fillister head screws to the front
horizontal baffle and attached two, 1 1/4 inch long, fairly soft springs
which I strech and hook over the bend in the hinge wire. To remove the
pins, I detach the springs, slide a short piece of looped safety wire over
the pin, stick the wire through the slot between cowl halves and pull on it
with some small vice grips. I carry the wire loop and small vice grips in
my a/c tool kit.
My fingers are tired, so I'll quit for now. Hope some of the above
ramblings were helpful to someone. Bob Skinner RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeremy <jbenedic(at)uofport.edu> |
| Subject: | Van's WWW (Confusion Clarification) |
RV-Listers:
At the beginning of December, a small message was posted asking for any
user contributed materials for the Van's WWW. The following days brought
eight printed pages of concern into my mailbox. One of these was posted
to the rv-list, so I feel it is necessary to answer in the public forum.
> Isn't this going to make your site a duplication (or a repeat) of
> John Hovan's Web Site?
An understandable concern - but not the intention. I was primarily
looking for some pictures of RV's that were already digitized - at the
time, I didn't have the ability to scan any pictures. The intent was to
add more pictures, as was requested by many. This was approved by Van's
Aircraft.
> If you are really going to represent Van's, the feedback should be
> the other way. I personally would much prefer to see comments, articles,
> PLANS/INSTRUCTIONS UPDATES, how-to articles, etc. come from the experts at
> Vans factory .... after all, they do have more experience at building RVs
> than most of us.
Unfortunately, this sounds easier than it is. See the note about Van's
and the Internet later on.
> If it's not really a "Vans Aircraft" site (I find your e-mail
> disclaimer a little strange) then does it really have any value-added over
> John's Web site??
This is the offical Van's WWW site. I worked with Van's to put the web
site together, and have only "Van's Approved" material. However, people
have intrepreted this to mean that I work for Van's, which I don't
(except at OSH). Therefore, my disclaimer, which said that any comments
are my own and any tardiness on e-mail is not to be reflected upon Van's,
was meant SOLELY for e-mail messages. I don't want to have someone quote
a personal opinion that I might make on the list as an official statement
from Van's Aircraft.
> If it is somewhere in-between (a sort of semi-official
> site) then the spectre of editorial control of negative comments is always
> present in the background.
Van's Aircraft has any control of negative comments, not me.
> Perhaps you really need a clearly stated purpose for the site, and
> an editorial policy statement?
The site ended up targeting both builders and prospective builders, with
more emphasis on those who have not yet purchased a kit. Most material
was written by Van's Aircraft. Any that was not was approved.
> ... just my personal comments ... Gil Alexander (ready for flames)
> gil(at)rassp.hac.com
General Comments and Notes:
The original intent was to get Van's aircraft established on the
Internet. After months of "pleading" for them to do something on their
own, I realized that it would not happen, so I volunteered to create the
site for them, free of charge of course. The problem is that not
everybody holds a favoring opinion of the Internet at Van's. Things from
the rv-list, in particular, have made their way to Van's. Negative
posting are remembered much more than positive ones. Because of this,
developing anything for them on the Internet is a challenge.
Final Note:
The Van's WWW site will be removed from earthlink.net on January 15, 1996.
As always, any comments or flames are welcomed to jbenedic(at)uofport.edu
Over 300 comments were received on the web site in the first few months,
I was not able to reply to most of them. But yes - they were read.
Jeremy
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
| name://Jeremy Benedict | PP-ASEL (1994) [R/E: TD] |
| email://jbenedic(at)uofport.edu | Logged:C-150,RV-4,-6,-6A,-6B,-6T|
| http://www.uofport.edu/~jbenedic | TT: 163.2 hrs TT-RV: 70.2 hrs |
| voice://503.240.1528 | |
|postal://Villa 114/5000 N. Willamette Blvd./Portland OR 97203-5754 |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Van's "WebManager" -- http://www.earthlink.net/~rkhu/vans/
--
Disclaimer: I am not an employee of Van's Aircraft, Inc. Therefore,
please regard my comments on e-mail as those of myself, and not
necessarily of Van's Aircraft (unless stated otherwise). Any (late)
responses are my responsibility, and do not reflect the timeliness of
Van's Aircraft, Inc. Finally, the web site I have put together
is the offical Van's Aircraft, Inc. web site, and contains only official
approved information.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: New member on the list |
>My name is Frank Smidler and I'm an RV-6 builder in Indiana.....
>
>I have just mailed the first edition of the "INDIANA RV BUILDERS NEWSLETTER"
>for which I am the editor.
Frank,
Where are you located and could you send some additional information about
your newsletter. I live in SE Indiana near Cincinnati, OH and have just
started on the empannage kit for a 6A.
Tom Graumlich
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "<baxter(at)agora.rdrop.com>" <baxter(at)agora.rdrop.com> |
| Subject: | sherwin williams primer |
I am currently working on my -6 elevator. For primer I used Sherwin
Williams wash. My problem is that when the primer dried, I could scratch
it off with my fingernail. I mixed the primer in a 2 to 1 ratio with the
reducer. I cleaned the parts with lacker thinner.
Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Jeff Baxter
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Brown <jmbrown(at)aimnet.aimnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Van's WWW (Confusion Clarification) |
I noticed that there was a line that stated that the WWW page was
being removed from earthlink.com. Where is it going???
-------sig cut here-------
jmbrown(at)aimnet.com PP-ASEL
jmbrown(at)BayNetworks.com
Building an RV-6 #23568 N610JB "The Golden BeeBee"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | HowardRV(at)aol.com |
Ok, I need some help from you guys. Like most, I really like the 3M
Scotch-Brite cutting and polishing system. I use the 2" discs both in
Scotch-Brite and in heavier grits for "real" removal of alum. My problem is
that the air driven die grinders of course take a lot of air and in no time,
my 30 gallon tank is behind and of course the rpm drops, and.... you know. I
would like to get a electric die/disc grinder, however, the only ones I have
seen in Harbor Freight, Sears, etc. have no way that I can see to adapt to a
1/4" Mandrel needed to use the Scotch Brite system. Any ideas?
Howard Kidwell
howardrv(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
| Subject: | Re: sherwin williams primer |
>I am currently working on my -6 elevator. For primer I used Sherwin
>Williams wash. My problem is that when the primer dried, I could scratch
>it off with my fingernail. I mixed the primer in a 2 to 1 ratio with the
>reducer. I cleaned the parts with lacker thinner.
>
>Any suggestions would be appreciated.
>Jeff Baxter
>
Jeff: I've been using SW and had very good luck. I like it better than the
Variprime that I used on my first RV. I Scotch Brite lightly with the grey
SB and then clean with acetone or some other paint prep. I believe SW
recommends 1.5 cat. to 1 part base. Is there a possibility that your batch
of lacquer thinner became contaminated? I generally pour a small amount
into a seperate container and even then am very careful to pour the liquid
on the towel. It doesn't take much oil or silicon to ruin a whole can if
you put the cloth or paper towel on the mouth of the can and tip the can to
get liquid on the cloth. Was the temp warm enough? Do you have oil
contamination in your air supply line? Did you let the paint cure long
enough? Did you mix the two ingredients well?
Bob Skinner RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Day" <sday(at)pharmcomp.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Landing in the snow |
>Yeah, probably right. I think you should consider a little ski flying
>just for its own sake. It is a blast (although I'm speaking out of turn
>a little, never having done it in an RV; maybe it's a pain in the neck,
>but I doubt it).
It'll happen some day. (along with some of that water flying stuff with
those float thing'a'ma'bobers) hehe
>I hope to put skis on, fly north to a secluded lake, and do a little
>xc skiing, backcounty skiing, or snowshoeing, and maybe camp overnight.
>You "southerners" might want to leave the camping part out .
Sounds like fun. When you say backcountry skiing, do you mean Trek skiing?
I've been meaning to give that a try, and I will next winter in Switzerland
, but doing all the above in an rv would top that.
This Internet thing is so incredible!!! Not only is this a builders
resource, but a great motivator!!! :)
-Steve Day
sday(at)pharmcomp.com
(CK ID - RV6a RV for short)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Day" <sday(at)pharmcomp.com> |
| Subject: | Re: sherwin williams primer |
>I am currently working on my -6 elevator. For primer I used Sherwin
>Williams wash. My problem is that when the primer dried, I could scratch
>it off with my fingernail. I mixed the primer in a 2 to 1 ratio with the
>reducer. I cleaned the parts with lacker thinner.
>
>Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Very strange. I am using the same stuff. Are you using the G4P (whatever
the reducer is??) I bought this cheapo parts spray gun and Fred Meyers and
tried doing my parts. Couldn't believe how much trouble I was having.
(same exact thing happened to me, flaking paint) I tried everything I could
think of, no success so.....
I started using the little spray cans of Zinc Oxide primer and found it to
leave a much darker coat and thought I was getting better adhesion.
(Wrong!) I saw a guy a few hangars down using a DevillBiss (spelling) and I
was amazed at how fast he could prime his parts. I bought one and tried the
Sherman Williams again, the stuff went on like glue. I have bumped the
painted parts pretty good with another piece of metal and most of the time
it doesn't make it to bare metal. Not sure if the gun made that much of a
difference, because I was painting under same atmospheric condition
(humidity, temp etc) Don't know if you have a really good gun, but if not,
I'd try borrowing someones and see if you get the same results. (I primed
in about 70degrees and about 30% humidity)
-Steve Day
sday(at)pharmcomp.com
(CK ID - RV6a RV for short)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Day" <sday(at)pharmcomp.com> |
| Subject: | Vans WWW opinion |
When it is said the pages are going down on Jan15th!!!????? Why?? I hope
it isn't going away for good.
I am really curious what Van and other have against the Web? I think it is
really great to have that type of resource. I'm sure there are a lot of
question people call about that could be answered through the web.
Having pictures of people's projects are also really inspiring.
Something I wish could be added I saw on another users group list. Their
web page has a link to the email that has been exchanged by subject, so the
rv web page would have links something like:
Email tips:
Air tool oilers...
Flying rv with skiis
How do HVLP systems work?
Problems with pitot tube
etc.. etc..
You click on the topic you want and you are shown that thread of messages
relating to the selected topic. It was a really neat idea and would be
great for new users who come on the list, they don't have to re-ask
questions already asked in the past.
The problem is that this idea would require someone who understand how to
accomplish this in an automated way. Which also means Van would have to
hire someone. (wonder why he doesn't, there is so much that could be put on
a web site)
Whenever they make a change in the plans, the update can be posted in a
graphic. Any manditory changes can be posted. Events etc.. etcc
I really wonder Van's isn't interested in sponsoring a web page.
Couldn't someone convice him that adding the web pages is part of the Total
Performance package. hehe...... really.
-Steve Day
sday(at)pharmcomp.com
(CK ID - RV6a RV for short)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rcrothers(at)rcrothers.seanet.com (Randy Crothers) |
| Subject: | Re: sherwin williams primer |
Arn't there some good quality pressure can type primers available? It seems
that they would eliminate alot of cleaning up etc.. must not be or everyone
would be using them? Anybody having any luck with cans?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Francis S. Smidler" <102776.1474(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: sherwin williams primer |
>I am currently working on my -6 elevator. For primer I used Sherwin
>Williams wash. My problem is that when the primer dried, I could scratch
>it off with my fingernail. I mixed the primer in a 2 to 1 ratio with the
>reducer. I cleaned the parts with lacker thinner.
>
>Any suggestions would be appreciated.
>Jeff Baxter
>
I have found that the adhesive on the premask used to protect the skins on
prepunched parts takes a little more effort to clean off. The only time I had
problems was with items that where premasked. I used MEK to cut through it, do
it twice, then lightly scotch bright it. This should solve your problem.
Been there, done that.
Frank
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dougweil(at)mail.pressenter.com (Doug Weiler) |
| Subject: | Re: Seattle Area RV-6a Builders |
>I am looking for RV-6/6a builders in the Western Washington Area to compare.
>Located in Redmond , Hanger in Arlington, EMP Complete, starting wings,
>project started 2 months ago after Van's last one week workshop.
>
>Jerry Engel
>RV-6a
>Rainpoof(at)aol.com (daughter's old name I inherited)
Jerry:
I suggest you contact Greg Rainwater of the Puget Sound RV Builder's Group.
I'm sure he could help you. His number is 206-353-4342
Doug
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
= Doug Weiler, pres. MN Wing Van's AirForce, RV-4 wings in progress
= 347 Krattley Lane
= Hudson, WI 54016
= 715-386-1239
= email: dougweil(at)mail.pressenter.com
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David A. Barnhart" <barnhart(at)crl.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Reserved N-number question |
On Fri, 5 Jan 1996, William Costello wrote:
> I would like some info re reserving an N-number.
Reserving an N-number is easy.
1. Call up the FAA at 405-954-3116 to see if the N-number you want is
available.
2. Call your local FSDO and get a copy of AC 20-27D. It contains a
description of the entire process of getting your homebuilt flying, and
has sample forms.
One of the sample forms is a simple letter asking for a number to be
reserved in your name. The fee is $10, and the reservation is for one
year, at which time you have to renew (and send in another $10).
My advice is that if the number you want is available, then reserve it
NOW, no matter how long it will be before you are flying
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
rv-6 sn 23744
Sent off the letter last week to reserve N601DB
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David A. Barnhart" <barnhart(at)crl.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Right Elevator - Need Advice |
On Fri, 5 Jan 1996 RFlunker(at)aol.com wrote:
> My question is quite simply how do I proceed in a manner that provides the
> best chance of a good fit of the counterbalance relative to the HS.
Well, unfortunately, you are PAST the point where you have the best
chance, in my opinion. You want to start fitting the elevator to the HS
before you have the tip rib installed, but after the root rib and
weldment are riveted to the elevator spar. (This assuming that you have left
the HS skin untrimmed at the tip) With the tip rib aff, it's very easy
to get the rod-ends positioned correctly on the elevator spar. ONce
that's done, then you can go ahead and install the tip rib.
If I remember correctly, the next steps are:
- rivet the skin on
- roll the elevator skin leading edge
- install the rod-ends in the elevator spar
- add the lead counterweight to the tip rib (Did you know
that Van sells pre-formed lead counterweights now?)
- INstall the elevator tip
- Trim the HS skin
- Install the HS tip
BTW, Frank Justice's instructions are extremely helpful in this area.
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
rv-6 sn 23744
building the firewall
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: sherwin williams primer |
>I am currently working on my -6 elevator. For primer I used Sherwin
>Williams wash. My problem is that when the primer dried, I could scratch
>it off with my fingernail. I mixed the primer in a 2 to 1 ratio with the
>reducer. I cleaned the parts with lacker thinner.
Hmmm. I've used SW for quite a while and have not been able to scrape it off
with anything smaller than a nuclear blast... (G) I've seen others reccomend
a 2 to 1 ratio, but I've never tried it. All of the locals here use it at 1
to 1 (also makes mixing easier) and spray on a very light coat. Dries hard
as nails.
-- Ed Bundy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David A. Barnhart" <barnhart(at)crl.com> |
| Subject: | Re: sherwin williams primer |
On Sun, 7 Jan 1996, Randy Crothers wrote:
> Arn't there some good quality pressure can type primers available? It seems
> that they would eliminate alot of cleaning up etc.. must not be or everyone
> would be using them? Anybody having any luck with cans?
Tempo sells zinc-chromate in aerosol cans. There is also a product
called "Marhyde". I use both, and both work well for touch-up. It would
get awfully expensing to use spray cans for overall priming, though.
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
rv-6 sn 23744
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: sherwin williams primer |
<199601072059.MAA11961(at)seanet.com>
| From: | Jack Abell <abell(at)rand.org> |
I tried some zinc oxide in spray cans from Aircraft Spruce and couldn't get
one of the damned things to empty. Then I tried Mar Hyde in spray cans and
they worked great. The problem is that Mar Hyde is not believed to be as
good protection as Vari-Prime or even zinc oxide. I primed my horizontal
and vertical stabs with Mar Hyde. A few days ago, I bought a De Vilbiss
spray gun because I wanted to go back to Vari-Prime, which I had used much
earlier and liked very much but gave up on because I didn't have a decent
mask. Later, Gil Alexander and I bought a pair of positive pressure masks
that work very well. I haven't tried the new gun yet but will do so this
coming weekend when I prime my rudder components. I'll report later how
it goes.
Jack Abell
RV-6A Rudder
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | donk(at)aloha.net (Don Kyle) |
| Subject: | RV projects in Hawaii |
Any current RV projects in Hawaii? I am prospective builder, little to now
skills, and no previous experience. Is the RV-4 a kit that I could build?
What would I need by the way of room to build it? I have no garage at home.
Can some give me some advice on how one would begin such a project?
Aloha and Blue Skies
Don Kyle
D-8853
Email: donk(at)aloha.net
Phone# 808-247-2879
Snail mail: 45-631 Kulukeoe Pl.
Kaneohe, Hi 96744
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carol R. de Solla" <de_solla_carol(at)jpmorgan.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Variprime stockists |
To Bob Skinner/George & Becki
* My system does not show what email address you are on, so my apologies to
everyone else!
* We cannot use the U.S. 1-800 telephone numbers in the U.K. Sob sob! Do you
have the normat number?
* Thank you very much for you help so far.
Carol de Solla
de_solla_carol(at)jpmorgan.com
From: RVLIST[UNIX.RVLIST] @ TRSSW
Subject: Re: RV-List: Variprime stockists
At 02:24 PM 1/4/96 GMT, you wrote:
>[This note has been sent to the following InterNet address(es):
>rvlist(at)matronics.com]
>
>
>We're trying to find a stockist of Variprime here in the sunny United Kindom.
>
>Does anyone in the US have a name/number at Du Pont in the US that I can call
>to get info?
>
>Thanks
>Carol de Solla/David Coleman (Working on RV6 wings in sub-zero temperatures!
>And we don't care!)
>de_solla_carol(at)jpmorgan.com
>
> I have two numbers for Dupont. Don't know how current they are.
1-800-677-2775 (main number?) 1-800-338-7668 Technical Assistance
Bob Skinner RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ward9(at)llnl.gov (Rich Ward) |
| Subject: | RV4's -Leaky Canopy ?? |
I've been working on fitting the side skins on my RV4 canopy. Since the
side skins overlap the canopy near the canopy bottom, it obvious that water
flowing down the canopy will find it way into the cockpit area. Van's
doesn't mention the use of RTV or any other agent to seal this joint. Have
any of you out there had a notion to seal this joint and if so with what?
It seems to me that a good rain storm could leave a lot water inside the
plane.
Separate question. Has any body used the prefabbed NACA scoops (found in
Aircraft Spruce or Wicks) on the curved area of the canopy skins. They are
$20+ a throw and I just a soon not go throught the hasel of returning them
if they won't work.
Are the conopy sides an effective area for the NACA scoops or should I
place them lower on the fuselage?
-- Rich
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ROBERT BUSICK <rbusick(at)nmsu.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: sherwin williams primer |
Jeff
I had the same problems. Fix is to scotchbrite the aluminum,
clean with lacquer thinner and then spray. You have got to get the
aluminum as clean as possible.
I have since switched to PPG DX 1791 self etching primer and find
it easier to use and it looks better
Bob Busick
RV-6
On Sat, 6 Jan 1996, wrote:
> I am currently working on my -6 elevator. For primer I used Sherwin
> Williams wash. My problem is that when the primer dried, I could scratch
> it off with my fingernail. I mixed the primer in a 2 to 1 ratio with the
> reducer. I cleaned the parts with lacker thinner.
>
> Any suggestions would be appreciated.
> Jeff Baxter
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DerFlieger(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Heated Pitot (was "No Subject:) |
mciunix.mciu.k12.pa.us!wgarrett(at)matronics.com (William Garrett) writes:
>1. Does anyone have plans for a mount for this thing?
William, Here is a copy of a recent posting which might help you. Jim
Stugart, DerFlieger(at)aol.com
Subj: RV-List: Heated Pitot tube mounting kits available
Date: 95-11-06 10:23:37 EST
From: tcplink.nrel.gov!gretzw(at)matronics.com
I am offering a mounting bracket kit for the installation of a heated
pitot tube. The kit is designed especially for the RV aircraft. It is
made for the mounting of heated pitot tubes; AN5812-12 (12 volt),
AN5812-1 (24 volt), AN5814-12 (12 volt with static source), and
AN5814-2 (24 volt with static source). Since these pitot tubes are
chrome plated, the mounting bracket is also chrome plated. The kits
are also available without the chrome plate for installation of a
surplus Cessna, or other, painted pitot tube. In which case the mount
can be painted. The mounting brackets are available in complete
installation kit form, or the mount bracket only, if it is to be used
on another type of homebuilt. The kits come with complete installation
instructions with helpful photos.
Prices:
-Mounting bracket only (Chrome) $80.00
-Mounting bracket only (Paintable) $50.00
-Mounting bracket kit for RV's (Chrome) $100.00
-Mounting bracket kit for RV's (Paintable) $80.00
Please add $5.00 for shipping.
For a flyer that includes two photos of the bracket and kit, with
prices, or if you have questions, contact;
Warren Gretz
3664 E. Lake Dr.
Littleton, CO 80121
(303) 770-3811
Please do not contact me by Internet. My Internet connection is at my
workplace and I would not feel right in abusing the privilege in any
way.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | A couple of wing questions |
I finished my landing light installation and attached the
leading edge to the spar over the weekend. Feels pretty
good to see the wing taking shape with riveted on parts.
I am now ready to rivet on my single piece top skin but
have a few questions for those who are working on their
wings or recently finished them.
1) When did you countersink the inner row of screws on
the fuel tank -- before Pro-Sealing and riveting or
after the tank was completely assembled?
2) Has anyone installed the nut plates for this same row
of screws with the bolts that hold the ribs in place
already installed? If so, did the bolt heads get in
the way of using a squeezer for riveting the nut plates?
3) I've looked high and low for a torque wrench in the
0-50 inch pound range to torgue the AN3 and AN4 bolts.
The only one I have found was >$100! Did you actually
use a torque wrench on these bolts or just tighten
them nice and snug and called it good?
Thanks for the help!
Doug Medema dougm@physio-control.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | walsh(at)cpeedy.ENET.dec.com |
Speaking of what's needed for IFR....
Does anyone know if it's possible to get IFR cert w/out a vacuum pump?
I would like my RV4 to be all electric if possible. I would also like
to be able to fly minimal IFR. I.e., Climb through a layer type stuff etc.
Last time I looked through the reg it was not entirely clear to me exactly
what was needed in terms of instruments.
thanks
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Variprime stockists |
At 07:03 AM 1/8/96 GMT, you wrote:
>To Bob Skinner/George & Becki
>
>* My system does not show what email address you are on, so my apologies to
>everyone else!
>* We cannot use the U.S. 1-800 telephone numbers in the U.K. Sob sob! Do
you
>have the normat number?
>* Thank you very much for you help so far.
>
>Carol de Solla
>de_solla_carol(at)jpmorgan.com
>
>
>To: RVLIST[UNIX.RVLIST] @ TRSSW
>cc:
>From: RVLIST[UNIX.RVLIST] @ TRSSW
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Variprime stockists
>
>At 02:24 PM 1/4/96 GMT, you wrote:
>>[This note has been sent to the following InterNet address(es):
>>rvlist(at)matronics.com]
>>
>>
>>We're trying to find a stockist of Variprime here in the sunny United Kindom.
>>
>>Does anyone in the US have a name/number at Du Pont in the US that I can call
>>to get info?
>>
>>Thanks
>>Carol de Solla/David Coleman (Working on RV6 wings in sub-zero temperatures!
>>And we don't care!)
>>de_solla_carol(at)jpmorgan.com
>>
>> I have two numbers for Dupont. Don't know how current they are.
> 1-800-677-2775 (main number?) 1-800-338-7668 Technical Assistance
> Bob Skinner RV-6
>
Carrol/David: You might try these numbers for DuPont: 201-376-5151 (New
Jersey),
215-425-4300 Pennsylvania or 404-423-3370. Sherwin Williams makes a very
good wash primer, I like it better than Variprime for interior corrosion
protection. If you have any interest in this product, let me know and I'll
get a phone number for you. My Internet address is: BSkinner@ltec. Bob
Skinner
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ecole(at)ix.netcom.com (EDWARD COLE ) |
| Subject: | Re: Right Elevator - Need Advice |
You wrote:
>
>Hello everyone!
>
>I'm working on the right elevator and need some advice regarding the
best
>sequence of doing things so that everything comes out correctly. I'm
hoping
>those of you that are past this point can shed some enlightening
thoughts..
>
>My question is quite simply how do I proceed in a manner that provides
the
>best chance of a good fit of the counterbalance relative to the HS.
At this
>point I have the skin and spar completed including having the tip ribs
>attached to the spar. I have not attached the counterweight skin to
the tip
>ribs, and am unsure at what point I do that. Can someone talk me
through
>what you did??
>
>Thanks in advance.
>
>Dick Flunker
>RV-6A, Allen Tx RFLUNKER(at)AOL.COM
>
Dick,
You might want to purchase the George Orndorff (sp) video tape on
Empennage construction. It has been very helpful to a lot of builders.
They are available from Avery's.
Ed Cole RV6A #24430 Empennage
ecole(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rust47rg(at)one.net |
| Subject: | Re: RV4's -Leaky Canopy ?? |
>I've been working on fitting the side skins on my RV4 canopy. Since the
>side skins overlap the canopy near the canopy bottom, it obvious that water
>flowing down the canopy will find it way into the cockpit area. Van's
>doesn't mention the use of RTV or any other agent to seal this joint. Have
>any of you out there had a notion to seal this joint and if so with what?
>It seems to me that a good rain storm could leave a lot water inside the
>plane.
>
>Separate question. Has any body used the prefabbed NACA scoops (found in
>Aircraft Spruce or Wicks) on the curved area of the canopy skins. They are
>$20+ a throw and I just a soon not go throught the hasel of returning them
>if they won't work.
>
>Are the conopy sides an effective area for the NACA scoops or should I
>place them lower on the fuselage?
>
>-- Rich
>
>
>
Rich:
I used thin coat of silicone based sealer between the canopy and side skins.
It has worked fine. I did find that its difficult to seal the fit between
the forward top skin (F421) and the front skin on the bow. It showed up the
first time I flew in rain. I ended up custom fabricating a one piece seal
from one side to the other. It has to be thin enough not to bow up the
front skin of the canopy when you close it, but thick enough to fill any
void. I shaved down some "P" strip with a razorblade and put it on the lip
of the forward top skin (F-421), it does the trick. No rainwater and a
tight airseal.
As far as the NACA ducts, It's been found that they don't work well on the
skirts. They need a high pressure area and the skirts don't have it. If you
want air off of the skirts the only ones I've seen that work are "pop outs"
like you see on a Pitts. UGLY, but functional. I took my fresh air off the
baffle and routed it to a console in front of the pilots stick. Works fine
and the backseater gets enough flowthru air to keep them happy.
Regards:
Rusty Gossard
N47RG RV-4 Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Yablon <brian(at)lanart.com> |
| Subject: | IFR/FAR continued... |
I'd like to broaden the topic being discussed by Randall and Elon a little:
FAR 91.319 says:
(c) Unless otherwise authorized by the Administrator in special operating
limitations, no person may operate an aircraft that has an experimental
certificate over a densely populated area or in a congested airway. The
Administrator may issue special operating limitations for particular aircraft
to permit takeoffs and landings to be conducted over a densely populated area
or in a congested airway, in accordance with terms and conditions specified
in the authorization in the interest of safety in air commerce.
I'm somewhat confused about how this really limits us. How does one
typically get/apply for these "special operating limitations" to fly
near urban areas or in "congested" airways (which must include every
victor airway in the Boston-Washington Corridor)? It seems to me that
the absence of such a permit would pretty much preclude *any* IFR
operations.
> 91.319 EXPERIMENTAL Certificates: Operating Limitations...
> C. The administrator authorizes special operating limitations...
> (d)(2) Must operate under DAY VFR unless....
> (e). The Admin. "may" prescribe additional limitations...
How do you go about getting an experimental certified for IFR use? Or
night VFR?
-Brian
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Brian Yablon Position: Hardware Engineer
LANart Corporation Internet: byablon(at)lanart.com
145 Rosemary Street, Suite D1 Ma-bell: (617) 444-1994 x206
Needham, MA 02194 FAX: (617) 444-3692
LANart: Difference by Design
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Boudro <dboudro(at)nmia.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV4's -Leaky Canopy ?? |
I'll tell you what i've done. Yes, I seal this area from the inside with
clear silicone sealer, BTW I also seal the front of the canopy between
the plexiglass and tube before I rivet it to the tube.
On my first 4 I used the NACA scoops, put them in the fuselage skin
just below the canopy; they both worked great. This time i'm going to
try the canopy side skins.
Dan Boudro
Alubquerque, NM
RV-4 N9167Z
On Mon, 8 Jan 1996, Rich Ward wrote:
> I've been working on fitting the side skins on my RV4 canopy. Since the
> side skins overlap the canopy near the canopy bottom, it obvious that water
> flowing down the canopy will find it way into the cockpit area. Van's
> doesn't mention the use of RTV or any other agent to seal this joint. Have
> any of you out there had a notion to seal this joint and if so with what?
> It seems to me that a good rain storm could leave a lot water inside the
> plane.
>
> Separate question. Has any body used the prefabbed NACA scoops (found in
> Aircraft Spruce or Wicks) on the curved area of the canopy skins. They are
> $20+ a throw and I just a soon not go throught the hasel of returning them
> if they won't work.
>
> Are the conopy sides an effective area for the NACA scoops or should I
> place them lower on the fuselage?
>
> -- Rich
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: Van's WWW (Confusion Clarification) |
> Final Note:
> The Van's WWW site will be removed from earthlink.net on January 15, 1996.
Removed entirely, or moved somewhere else?
Randall Henderson
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | chinkley(at)ix.netcom.com (Curtis R. Hinkley ) |
| Subject: | Re: PPG Primer Products |
You wrote:
>
>>
>> I have been using PPG DX 1791 self etching primer on my wings. I
>>like the way it goes on and the slight brass/gold color once it is
>>dried. This week I went back to my PPG paint store and the seemingly
>>knowledgeable salesman told be that the DX 1791 was not very good for
>>corrosion protection and that their best product was DP 48/50 (number
>>depends on the color, available in five colors). He convinced me to
go with the DP 50 rather than the DX 1791.
>>
>> A question for those that know or use PPG products, just how
>>corrosion proof is the self etching primer, and should I go over the
wing areas that are metal to metal with the DP 50? I have already
primed the entire wing with DX 1791. I am worried about weight, but
then again, I do not want a rusty wing if I should move to the Florida
Keys!
>>
>>Another primer question. What is faying, and what should be used
>>to protect against it. Will a good primer solve this problem?
>>
>>Thanks
>>Bob Busick
>>RV-6
>>rbusick(at)nmsu.edu
>>
>Bob: The PPG data sheet (Form P-141(4/91)for DX 1791 says "Self
>Etching Primer (DX 1791) is specifically designed to provide excellent
>adhesion and corrosion resistance to properly prepared steel and
>aluminum while offering fast drying characteristics---"
>You might want to call PPG at 216-572-6111 (tech assistance) as I've
>found some paint shops are not up to par in the advice dept. I'll bet
>they could fix you up with all sorts of reading material.
>>
Bob,
Ive been painting cars, parts and cycles for quite a few years. When
you work with bare steel you really appreciate how fast it rust if its
not painted and sealed correctly. I used Dupont Variprime quite a bit,
however the problem I experienced with it was that it is not a sealer
and needs to be top coated to keep out the moisture. I switched to the
DP-Epoxy Primers because they are one of the best sealers made and do
not need top coating. When I build an RV the PPG system I would use on
my RV would be the following:
1. Start with the DX-533 Aluminum Cleaner
2. Then the DX-503 Aluminum Conditioner (visible or clear, I
recommend the visible), this is the acid based coating chemical
that will produce a chrome conversion coating on aluminum and
its alloys.
3. Then use one of the DP Epoxy Primers, DP-40 = green, DP-48 =
white, or use the DP-70 which is yellow and meets
MLS(HML-P-23377).
4. On top of this I will use a base coat (color) clear coat system
for the top coat. I really like the PPG DU-1000 Polyurethane
Clear.
It could be argued that the DP-70 is slightly better than the others
but any of the DP-Epoxy Primers will give you a sealed primer surface
which you will not get from the DX-1791 or from Dupont Variprime. If
you use the DX-1791 or Variprime they need to be top coated to be
sealed (to keep out moisture).
Ive never heard of faying, could you describe what the condition is.
I would also second Bob Skinners advice to you that you contact PPG
tech assistance. If you explain to them what you are going to use
their products on they will send you their spec sheets.
The thing to keep in mind is that there are allot of good paint systems
out there, just pick one and stick with it. If you try to use one
companies primer and anthers top coat you are asking for problems.
Curtis,
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ROBERT BUSICK <rbusick(at)nmsu.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: A couple of wing questions |
>
> 3) I've looked high and low for a torque wrench in the
> 0-50 inch pound range to torgue the AN3 and AN4 bolts.
> The only one I have found was >$100! Did you actually
> use a torque wrench on these bolts or just tighten
> them nice and snug and called it good?
>
> Thanks for the help!
>
> Doug Medema dougm@physio-control.com
>
Doug
Sears has one that starts at 25" pounds. It was reasonably
priced around $20-30 as I recall.
Bob Busick
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
>
> When I said .."you must meet all applicable FAR's just as in a certified
> aircraft" - I did not mean to imply everything is TSO'd to be legal. It only
> has to be FUNCTIONAL. And I am defining FUNCTIONAL as not only performing as
> designed but also certified or tested or calibrated or dated "as required"
> for the device.
[snip!]
Thanks for the clarification. Your original post looked like it was
saying otherwise, and since I have heard this from others a number of
times I assumed it was a repeat of the same misconception. You wouldn't
believe how many people DO think all your nav/coms radio have to be
TSO'd in order to fly IFR.
My apologies and I appreciate the thoughtful correction.
I might point out to others here that I'm getting my info from the FARs
available online at http://acro.harvard.edu/GA/ga_archives.html -- a
great resource -- I'd never be able to find this stuff in the book, but
with the files you can actually FIND what you're looking for. I just
copied them up to my system and do keyword searches on the files with
"grep", but they also have HTML format files with hypertext links
between cross-references, so if you have a web browser it can almost be
FUN to look for stuff in the FARs!
Randall Henderson
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV4's -Leaky Canopy ?? |
NASA scoops I bought from VANS works great.
Other builder/completers placed theirs a little
different from mine and are not as effective.
Just a thought; find a plane that has some
outstanding working air vents to see where
might be a good place for inlet to cockpit?
RV6A vents I have even work in hot TEXAS, on
the ground, whereas some RV6 won't even work
very well in the air.
One other thought, good idea to glue some screen
wire of some sort to keep out stinging insects.
Could be a problem on takeoff when you suddently
upset that hornet nest.
Marvin N63TX flying 4 1/2 yrs.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: IFR/FAR continued... |
Regarding limits to flying experimentals over densely populated areas or
congested airwys: there is a little known FAR that specifically addresses
enforcement and investigation of this regulation:
FAR 91.34 Enforcement and Investigation: Experimental Operating Limitation
Violations
(a) Investigation and enforcement against pilots who violate section
91.319 (c) shall be deemed suspended or low priority until such time as
any operator of an experimental aircraft is invoved in an incident or
accident involving people or persons on the ground who are in a
schoolhouse, shopping mall, open air assembly, or a family or friend of
a member of congress. After such time, enforcement of 91.319 (c) along
with any other regulation relating either directly or indirectly to
experimental-amateur built aircraft, shall be arbitrary and capricious,
and new regulations highly restrictive to experimental aircraft shall
immediately be put in place, and will be enforced retroactively.
But seriously folks.... I believe that it's standard operating
procedure for the inspector to write the "special operating
limitations" allowing you to take off and land over densely populated
areas or in congetsted airspace when they sign off your project, at
least for proven designs like the RV series. But you may need to ask
for it. I'm sure people who have been through the process can answer
this better than me though. And in fact I wouldn't mind hearing from
experienced folk about just what other sorts of signoffs you can ask
for and/or expect. The ones I know about are IFR/VFR, Day/Night. What
else?
Randall Henderson
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KHarrill(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Right Elevator - Need Advice |
>My question is quite simply how do I proceed in a manner that provides the
>best chance of a good fit of the counterbalance relative to the HS. At this
>point I have the skin and spar completed including having the tip ribs
>attached to the spar. I have not attached the counterweight skin to the tip
>ribs, and am unsure at what point I do that. Can someone talk me through
>what you did??
Dick,
I am just finishing my left elevator, so I have some recency of
experience. Before going any further mount the skeleton to the HS and make
sure the tip ribs fit with at least 1/8" clearance. You will have to use a
square to make sure the tip ribs are being held perpendicular to the spar.
Once this is done, drill and cleco the counterweight skin to the tip ribs,
except where it goes under the elevator skin. Then mount the skeleton and
skin in the jig and drill the skin to the skeleton, including where the skin
overlaps the counterweight skin. Make sure the tip ribs are square to the
spar.
At this point you can follow Van's procedure or the Frank Justice
procedure. The Justice procedure calls for you to rivet the CW skin to the
elevator skin ( using 3/32 rivets) at the four rivet locations where there is
no underlying rib or spar. (using this procedure requires 3/32' holes at
these locations rather than 1/8" holes). Then mount the skeleton in the skin
and the skin in the jig. Van's procedure is to rivit the CW skin to the tip
ribs, the mount the skeleton in the skin and the skin in the jig. This
procedure uses pop rivets in the above four rivet locations.
I made the mistake of drilling the CW skins to the tip ribs with the tip
ribs only clecoed together. After riveting the ribs together, the holes in
the tip ribs did not match the skins; riveting pulled the ribs closer
together.
I hope this helped.
Ken Harrill
RV - 6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: A couple of wing questions |
>
> 1) When did you countersink the inner row of screws on
> the fuel tank -- before Pro-Sealing and riveting or
> after the tank was completely assembled?
I drilled the holes but didn't counter-sink until after I'd
pro-sealed.
>
> 2) Has anyone installed the nut plates for this same row
> of screws with the bolts that hold the ribs in place
> already installed? If so, did the bolt heads get in
> the way of using a squeezer for riveting the nut plates?
Yeah I put the bolts in and I had to take some of them out to squeeze
the nut-plates. One thing that helped a lot was to have some single-leg
nutplates to use where clearance was tight, especially the inboard
ones.
> 3) I've looked high and low for a torque wrench in the
> 0-50 inch pound range to torgue the AN3 and AN4 bolts.
> The only one I have found was >$100! Did you actually
> use a torque wrench on these bolts or just tighten
> them nice and snug and called it good?
You should probably at least go out and find someone who has a torque
wrench and torque a couple of bolts to get the feel of the required
torque. You should then be able to go back and tighten them up close
enough by feel. I don't remember the exact torque values, but remember
you need to add the resistance for the locking nut-plate or fiber lock
nut to the normal torque value for the bolts.
Randall Henderson
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David A. Barnhart" <barnhart(at)crl.com> |
| Subject: | Re: IFR req'ments |
On Mon, 8 Jan 1996 walsh(at)cpeedy.enet.dec.com wrote:
> Does anyone know if it's possible to get IFR cert w/out a vacuum pump?
Traditionally, two attitude instruments are required, each powered from a
different source. Hence the Vac. powered AI & DG, and the electric Turn
& Bank.
It's expensive, but one choice would be to use electric DG & AI and a
Vacuum Turn & Bank.
On the other hand, since it's an experimental, these regs may not apply
(and I'm no expert on the FARs).
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
rv-6 sn 23744
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gil(at)rassp.hac.com (Gil Alexander) |
| Subject: | Re: A couple of wing questions |
*** snip ***
>
>3) I've looked high and low for a torque wrench in the
> 0-50 inch pound range to torgue the AN3 and AN4 bolts.
> The only one I have found was >$100! Did you actually
> use a torque wrench on these bolts or just tighten
> them nice and snug and called it good?
>
>Thanks for the help!
>
>Doug Medema dougm@physio-control.com
Doug,
..... Harbor Freight has a 1/4 inch torque wrench that is in the
$30 range. I have one and it seems reasonably made, and comes with a
plastic case. Light Plane Maintenance did a review on it some time ago,
and gave it a good rating. It's just the right size for those AN3 and AN4
bolts.
... keep on torquing ...... Gil Alexander
gil(at)rassp.hac.com
RV6A, #20701, N64GA rsvd. ... used some 75+F weather to make the first
cuts on my canopy. Wasn't quite the worrying
job I feared. It's quite easy with a die
grinder and cutting disk once you learn the
correct feed rate.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: IFR req'ments |
> Speaking of what's needed for IFR....
>
> Does anyone know if it's possible to get IFR cert w/out a vacuum pump?
> I would like my RV4 to be all electric if possible. I would also like
> to be able to fly minimal IFR. I.e., Climb through a layer type stuff etc.
>
> Last time I looked through the reg it was not entirely clear to me exactly
> what was needed in terms of instruments.
>
Sec. 91.205 (d) talks about instrument requirements for IFR. There is
no requirement for a vacum system, but you do need an artificial
horizon and directional gyro. You can get electric ones, but they are
EXPENSIVE. You can expect to pay at $1250 or more for a new electric
AH, versus $450 for a vacum one. Same thing for a DG.
Randall Henderson
RV-6
> thanks
>
> John
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV projects in Hawaii |
If you call up Van's, they will be happy to give you a list of RV builders in
Hawaii.
Call them. Visit them. Then you can see first hand what you are getting
yourself into. You will also find it to be a tremendous advantage to your own
building if you can see for yourself someone elses construction as you move
along on your own.
Andy Gold
RV-6A (finishing)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David A. Barnhart" <barnhart(at)crl.com> |
| Subject: | Re: IFR/FAR continued... |
On Mon, 8 Jan 1996, Brian Yablon wrote:
> How do you go about getting an experimental certified for IFR use? Or
> night VFR?
It is important to remember that what you can get away with varies from
FSDO region to FSDO region (and from inspector to inspector). Obviously,
there are a lot of high-performance homebuilts around that are certified
for IFR.
The best thing to do is to join one or more EAA local chapters in your
area. Find some folks who have IFR-certified homebuilts. Ask them who
the inspector/DAR was, and talk to the guy to see what he requires.
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
rv-6 sn 23744
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David A. Barnhart" <barnhart(at)crl.com> |
| Subject: | Re: A couple of wing questions |
On Mon, 8 Jan 1996, Doug Medema wrote:
> 1) When did you countersink the inner row of screws on
> the fuel tank -- before Pro-Sealing and riveting or
> after the tank was completely assembled?
After I finished sealing the back baffle to the tank.
> 2) Has anyone installed the nut plates for this same row
> of screws with the bolts that hold the ribs in place
> already installed? If so, did the bolt heads get in
> the way of using a squeezer for riveting the nut plates?
No, the bolt heads did not get in the way.
> 3) I've looked high and low for a torque wrench in the
> 0-50 inch pound range to torgue the AN3 and AN4 bolts.
> The only one I have found was >$100! Did you actually
> use a torque wrench on these bolts or just tighten
> them nice and snug and called it good?
Sears makes an inch-pound torque wrench that goes that low, but in my
opinion it's a piece of junk. I use a little bitty inch-pound torque
wrench I bought off an A&P a few years ago. I don't see them on the
market anymore, though.
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
rv-6 sn 23744
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rust47rg(at)one.net |
| Subject: | Re: IFR req'ments |
>Speaking of what's needed for IFR....
>
>Does anyone know if it's possible to get IFR cert w/out a vacuum pump?
>I would like my RV4 to be all electric if possible. I would also like
>to be able to fly minimal IFR. I.e., Climb through a layer type stuff etc.
>
>Last time I looked through the reg it was not entirely clear to me exactly
>what was needed in terms of instruments.
>
>thanks
>
>John
>
John:
Have you priced electric horizons and d.g.'s. BIG bucks. In a small aircraft
you loose redundancy by going "all" anything. Its not like a jet where you
have numerous electric systems. If your horizon, d.g., and turn coordinator
are all electric and you loose your only electric system you are s.o.l..
Regards:
Rusty Gossard
N47RG RV-4 Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gil(at)rassp.hac.com (Gil Alexander) |
| Subject: | Re: PPG Primer Products |
**** BIG snip - Curtis gives _good_ reasons to use Epoxy primers ****
>3. Then use one of the DP Epoxy Primers, DP-40 = green, DP-48 =
> white, or use the DP-70 which is yellow and meets
> MLS(HML-P-23377).
>4. On top of this I will use a base coat (color) clear coat system
> for the top coat. I really like the PPG DU-1000 Polyurethane
> Clear.
>
>It could be argued that the DP-70 is slightly better than the others
>but any of the DP-Epoxy Primers will give you a sealed primer surface
>which you will not get from the DX-1791 or from Dupont Variprime. If
>you use the DX-1791 or Variprime they need to be top coated to be
>sealed (to keep out moisture).
>
>I've never heard of faying, could you describe what the condition is.
"Faying surfaces" can be loosely described as the "mating surfaces" of a
riveted joint in this context.
>
*** snip ***
>The thing to keep in mind is that there are allot of good paint systems
>out there, just pick one and stick with it. If you try to use one
>companies primer and anthers top coat you are asking for problems.
The exception to this rule is the use of MIL-23377 Epoxy primers. All of
the non-automotive paint suppliers actually recommend this spec. primer as
a base for their paint systems (so does Dupont, they just don't generally
advertise that DP70 is a MIL-23377 primer), and will sell you a version. I
would have NO quarms about using a different manufacturer's topcoat over
another's MIL-23377 primer. This is what the MIL-Specs are all about -
consistency of product for it's intended application.
>
>Curtis,
... keep on epoxy priming .... Gil Alexander
gil(at)rassp.hac.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tedd McHenry <tedd(at)idacom.hp.com> |
| Subject: | Re: A couple of wing questions |
> Errors-To: bounces(at)matronics.com
> Date: Mon, 8 Jan 1996 11:32:50 -0700 (MST)
> From: ROBERT BUSICK <nmsu.edu!rbusick(at)matronics.com>
> X-Sender: rbusick@paris
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Cc: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: A couple of wing questions
> In-Reply-To: <9601081600.AA11834@physio-control.com>
> Message-Id: <Pine.A32.3.91.960108113048.32896B-100000@paris>
> Mime-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
> Sender: owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Precedence: junk
> Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>
> >
> > 3) I've looked high and low for a torque wrench in the
> > 0-50 inch pound range to torgue the AN3 and AN4 bolts.
> > The only one I have found was >$100! Did you actually
> > use a torque wrench on these bolts or just tighten
> > them nice and snug and called it good?
> >
> > Thanks for the help!
> >
> > Doug Medema dougm@physio-control.com
> >
> Doug
> Sears has one that starts at 25" pounds. It was reasonably
> priced around $20-30 as I recall.
>
> Bob Busick
> RV-6
>
___________________________________________________________________________
Tedd McHenry
Technical Writer e-mail: tedd(at)idacom.hp.com
Hewlett-Packard (Canada) Compuserve: 75320,215
IDACOM Telecom Operation phone: (403) 430-2603
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada fax: (403) 430-2772
http://www.idacom.hp.com/web_doc2/People/internal/tedd/index.html
___________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tedd McHenry <tedd(at)idacom.hp.com> |
> > > 3) I've looked high and low for a torque wrench in the
> > > 0-50 inch pound range to torgue the AN3 and AN4 bolts.
> > > The only one I have found was >$100! Did you actually
> > > use a torque wrench on these bolts or just tighten
> > > them nice and snug and called it good?
> > >
> > > Thanks for the help!
> > >
> > > Doug Medema dougm@physio-control.com
> > >
> > Doug
> > Sears has one that starts at 25" pounds. It was reasonably
> > priced around $20-30 as I recall.
> >
> > Bob Busick
> > RV-6
I have a break-away torque wrench that I would like to have calibrated
before I start using it on an airplane. Does anyone know a good way to
do that, or a place to get it done?
Tedd McHenry
tedd(at)idacom.hp.com
Edmonton, Canada
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: Vans WWW opinion |
>
> I am really curious what Van and other have against the Web? I think it is
> really great to have that type of resource. I'm sure there are a lot of
> question people call about that could be answered through the web.
One reason is that RVers are great rumor-mongers, and Van likes to play
things close to his chest and not release info on new projects, etc.
until he's ready. With the internet it's really easy to spread rumors to
LOTS of people. A number of times info has leaked out before Van wants
to make it public, and through the internet a whole lot more people
have heard stuff a lot faster than they would otherwise. Examples are
the pre-announcement rumors about the RV-8, wild speculation on various
accidents and investigations, and the posting of the Malaysian article
(not the poster's fault but Van was upset about the article before it
was posted on the internet).
What Van's (and we!) need to understand is that the INTERNET doesn't
spread rumors, PEOPLE spread rumors!
Since I live close to Van's I spend a lot of time snooping around there
and have personally tried to honor their wishes and not blab stuff
until after they've announced it officially. I suggest we all use
discretion in this area and maybe this will result in Van being more
receptive to the advantages of the internet.
> Something I wish could be added I saw on another users group list. Their
> web page has a link to the email that has been exchanged by subject, so the
> rv web page would have links something like:
[snip!]
As the web grows in popularity I'm sure the argument for doing this
will hold more weight. I think the feeling right now is that the
percentage of people who have internet access versus those who don't
isn't enough to justify doing the work of adding a full-featured
web-site. But I'm sure eventually as more and more people get on the
internet Van's will begin to realize that they could save a lot of time
on tech support calls if they had a support page like you describe.
Randall Henderson
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: sherwin williams primer |
>Arn't there some good quality pressure can type primers available? It seems
>that they would eliminate alot of cleaning up etc.. must not be or everyone
>would be using them? Anybody having any luck with cans?
I use Tempo Zinc Chromate primer in cans for what I consider "non-critical"
applications. i.e. places where two pieces of alclad metal touch, into bolt
holes, etc. It provides very good corrosion protection, but marginal
abrasion protection. Anything that might get scuffed; or for critical stuff
(steel, spars, etc) I feel a lot more comfortable with SW.
The aerosols are a lot faster, but I use a Zip Gun for most of the SW stuff
and it cleans up pretty fast.
-- Ed Bundy (installing gear mounts)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Ruble <cruble(at)cisco.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV4's -Leaky Canopy ?? |
>
> NASA scoops I bought from VANS works great.
^^^^
> Marvin N63TX flying 4 1/2 yrs.
>
NACA (National Advisory Council on Aeronotics), not "NASA".
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Corrosion proofing steel |
I have a question about sealing/primering steel against corrosion.
I've been using PPG Metal Cleaner, then Metal Conditioner (I don't
remember the numbers), before priming my steel parts. I've found that
using this treatment, unless I dry the parts QUICKLY after rinsing, I
will get some areas of light rust right away. Also, even though the
label on the metal cleaner says it's supposed to lift out rust, it
doesn't seem to do that very well and I have to scotch-brite any rust
off completely off before using it.
My questions are: is a little surface rust OK to prime over? Is there
any other method that will stabilize rust better before priming? Also,
what about inside the tubes where you can't get at it with scotch-
brite? How paranoid about getting every speck of rust off the steel
before priming do I have to be?
After trying this method with several steel parts I'm starting to think
it's better to just sandblast the parts and wipe down with lacquer
thinner, and priming directly over that instead of trying to use some
fancy metal conditioning treatment that seems to result in MORE rust.
I might mention here that I'm not really interested in doing any fancy
powder-coating or chroming of the rudder pedals, control sticks, engine
mount, etc. I just want to prime and paint with good quality primer and
paint.
Randall Henderson
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gil(at)rassp.hac.com (Gil Alexander) |
| Subject: | Re: IFR req'ments |
>On Mon, 8 Jan 1996 walsh(at)cpeedy.enet.dec.com wrote:
>
>> Does anyone know if it's possible to get IFR cert w/out a vacuum pump?
>
>Traditionally, two attitude instruments are required, each powered from a
>different source. Hence the Vac. powered AI & DG, and the electric Turn
>& Bank.
The different sources could both be electric though!
It would be easy to meet this requirement with a back-up gell-cell battery
with enough capacity to drive the radios, gyros and panel lights for 1 to 2
hours and still have an all-electric panel.
>
>It's expensive, but one choice would be to use electric DG & AI and a
>Vacuum Turn & Bank.
>
>On the other hand, since it's an experimental, these regs may not apply
>(and I'm no expert on the FARs).
>
>Best Regards,
>Dave Barnhart
>rv-6 sn 23744
Pity the electric AH and DG are so expensive though ..... :^(
Gil Alexander ... an Electrical Engineer if you havn't
gil(at)rassp.hac.com already guessed!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tedd McHenry <tedd(at)idacom.hp.com> |
All this talk about IFR in homebuilts has me thinking. My understanding is
that IFR is not allowed in amateur-built aircraft in Canada, but that
Transport Canada was considering allowing it. Can anyone tell me what the
progress of that has been and, most especially, if IFR might be legal in
Canada in a few years when I finish building?
Tedd McHenry
tedd(at)idacom.hp.com
Edmonton, Canada
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | walsh(at)cpeedy.ENET.dec.com |
| Subject: | IFR requirments... |
Speaking (again) of IFR requirments, I should have been more specific when
I said "all electric".
I envision two electrical systems each driving an electronic ignition unit.
Two of those little geo metro alternators and two of those little gel-cell
batteries. I get to eliminate all of the mag maintenance and the plumbing/
hassle, not to mention the potential danger, of the vacuum pump.
I know that an Electric horizon is expensive, but in my fantasy panel, I would
have only the minimum instrumentation for "safe" flight. A "perfect" panel
would be: a horizon, a gps, and a comm radio, nothing else. Low maintenance
low cost, and low hassle. Practically speaking, you need more than that but
every piece beyond the basics will have to "earn" it's way into the panel.
Aside from the legalities, I don't know of a good way to back up the electric
horizon?? To pony up the $$ for one of them might hurt, I don't think I could
swing two of them.
If the FAA makes me put too much "junk" in the panel for IFR, I am thinking
that I may just make the plane VFR only. I don't want to replicate the sorry
state of GA panels in certified airplanes. I want something lean and mean
and simple to maintain.
I've got a few years to go, so there's no rush. Any thought would be
appreciated.
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Curt Reimer <Curt_Reimer(at)MBnet.MB.CA> |
| Subject: | Re: A couple of wing questions |
On Mon, 8 Jan 1996, Doug Medema wrote:
> 1) When did you countersink the inner row of screws on
> the fuel tank -- before Pro-Sealing and riveting or
> after the tank was completely assembled?
I countersunk after assembly and curing. Initially I drilled
the holes to 1/8" so that I could
use clecoes to help hold the tank together while the pro-seal was curing,
then drilled out to the final size and countersunk afterwards. The
proseal layer adds to the overall thickness of the material, so I don't
think pre-countersinking would be a good idea.
> 2) Has anyone installed the nut plates for this same row
> of screws with the bolts that hold the ribs in place
> already installed? If so, did the bolt heads get in
> the way of using a squeezer for riveting the nut plates?
Its a good idea to have the bolts in place when you are installing the
nutplates, so that you *can* work around them when necessary. You might
have to remove a couple of bolts to rivet your nutplates in; no big deal
> 3) I've looked high and low for a torque wrench in the
> 0-50 inch pound range to torque the AN3 and AN4 bolts.
> The only one I have found was >$100! Did you actually
> use a torque wrench on these bolts or just tighten
> them nice and snug and called it good?
I found a 1/4" drive torque wrench for about $30. Its a cheap import, and
not very accurate as far as I can tell (+/- 5 in=lbs), but its a whole lot
more accurate
than doing it by feel. Case in point: On my first wing I tightened my
bolts til they "felt right". When I got my mini-torque wrench I
discovered, even considereing the error of the wrench, that I had
over-tightened the bolts by more than 100%! 25-30 in-lbs is not very much
torque at all. If I were tightening by feel, I would probably recommend
using a *nutdriver* instead of a rachet wrench. 25 in-lbs with
even a small rachet wrench feels like nothing.
Considering the large number of AN bolts in the RV airframe, and their
relative importance to the survival of the pilot, I don't think $100 for
a good torque wrench is unreasonable.
I wish I'd bought a good one.
Cheers,
Curt Reimer
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | driehl(at)cycor.ca (David Riehl) |
| Subject: | Re: RV4's -Leaky Canopy ?? |
>I've been working on fitting the side skins on my RV4 canopy. Since the
>side skins overlap the canopy near the canopy bottom, it obvious that water
>flowing down the canopy will find it way into the cockpit area. Van's
>doesn't mention the use of RTV or any other agent to seal this joint. Have
>any of you out there had a notion to seal this joint and if so with what?
>It seems to me that a good rain storm could leave a lot water inside the
>plane.
>
>Separate question. Has any body used the prefabbed NACA scoops (found in
>Aircraft Spruce or Wicks) on the curved area of the canopy skins. They are
>$20+ a throw and I just a soon not go throught the hasel of returning them
>if they won't work.
>
>Are the conopy sides an effective area for the NACA scoops or should I
>place them lower on the fuselage?
>
>-- Rich
>
>
>
If the edges of the canopy skins are fit well they do not seem to leak.
NACA ducts don't work very well on the canopy skins of the RV-4 except
during side
slips. The forward fuselage side skins ( below cheeks ) work better.
David
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | chinkley(at)ix.netcom.com (Curtis R. Hinkley ) |
| Subject: | Re: Corrosion proofing steel |
You wrote:
>
>I have a question about sealing/primering steel against corrosion.
>
>I've been using PPG Metal Cleaner, then Metal Conditioner (I don't
>remember the numbers), before priming my steel parts. I've found that
>using this treatment, unless I dry the parts QUICKLY after rinsing, I
>will get some areas of light rust right away. Also, even though the
>label on the metal cleaner says it's supposed to lift out rust, it
>doesn't seem to do that very well and I have to scotch-brite any rust
>off completely off before using it.
>
>My questions are: is a little surface rust OK to prime over? Is there
>any other method that will stabilize rust better before priming?
Also,what about inside the tubes where you can't get at it with scotch-
>brite? How paranoid about getting every speck of rust off the steel
>before priming do I have to be?
>
>After trying this method with several steel parts I'm starting to
think it's better to just sandblast the parts and wipe down with
lacquer thinner, and priming directly over that instead of trying to
use some fancy metal conditioning treatment that seems to result in
MORE rust.
>
>I might mention here that I'm not really interested in doing any fancy
>powder-coating or chroming of the rudder pedals, control sticks,
engine mount, etc. I just want to prime and paint with good quality
primer and paint.
>
>Randall Henderson
>RV-6
>
Randall,
You were probably using the PPG DX 579 Metal Cleaner and the DX 520sg
Metal Conditioner, the metal conditioner is a phosphoric acid based
coating chemical that will produce a zinc phosphate coating on steel
surfaces. If you dont use the metal conditioner then you need to use
a self etching primer.
After you wash off the conditioner dry the surface as fast as you can,
I use a blow gun and my compressor. This will still leave you with a
small amount of surface rust, remove this rust with one of the
following PPG cleaners, DX-330, DX-220 or DX-380. These cleaners are
the same cleaners you would use before priming. If you are using
Variprime Dupont recommends 3919s Prep-Sol or 3929s Prep-Sol II. The
PPG DX-330 is very good at removing grease & silicone which can really
mess up a paint job.
For the tubes I would block off one end and pour in some of the Metal
Cleaner, and shake it for awhile, then do the same with the Metal
Conditioner, then drain it and blow it dry. Then paint the inside of
the tube with an epoxy primer, if you have a compressor and spray gun
just place the tube against the spray gun and spray, you dont need to
worry about runs in the tubes.
I hope this will be of some help.
Curtis
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tedd McHenry <tedd(at)idacom.hp.com> |
| Subject: | Re: IFR req'ments |
> >> Does anyone know if it's possible to get IFR cert w/out a vacuum pump?
> >
> >Traditionally, two attitude instruments are required, each powered from a
> >different source. Hence the Vac. powered AI & DG, and the electric Turn
> >& Bank.
>
> The different sources could both be electric though!
>
> It would be easy to meet this requirement with a back-up gell-cell battery
> with enough capacity to drive the radios, gyros and panel lights for 1 to 2
> hours and still have an all-electric panel.
>
Gil:
Wouldn't you still have a problem with common-mode failures? I'd still
prefer to see two systems that are as independent as possible.
Tedd McHenry
tedd(at)idacom.hp.com
Edmonton, Canada
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tedd McHenry <tedd(at)idacom.hp.com> |
| Subject: | IFR requirments... |
> I know that an Electric horizon is expensive, but in my fantasy panel, I would
> have only the minimum instrumentation for "safe" flight. A "perfect" panel
> would be: a horizon, a gps, and a comm radio, nothing else. Low maintenance
> low cost, and low hassle. Practically speaking, you need more than that but
> every piece beyond the basics will have to "earn" it's way into the panel.
[snip]
> If the FAA makes me put too much "junk" in the panel for IFR, I am thinking
> that I may just make the plane VFR only. I don't want to replicate the sorry
> state of GA panels in certified airplanes. I want something lean and mean
> and simple to maintain.
I agree with your "lean and mean" concept. Generally speaking, I'd rather
carry more fuel than 25 pounds worth of excess IFR instruments. However,
I think you'd want to have a T&S on your "perfect" panel, so you can do
UA recoveries (unless you were taught to do IFR UA recoveries on the AI--
yikes!)
Tedd
___________________________________________________________________________
Tedd McHenry
Technical Writer e-mail: tedd(at)idacom.hp.com
Hewlett-Packard (Canada) Compuserve: 75320,215
IDACOM Telecom Operation phone: (403) 430-2603
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada fax: (403) 430-2772
http://www.idacom.hp.com/web_doc2/People/internal/tedd/index.html
___________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | J.Ken_Hitchmough(at)magic.ca (J.Ken Hitchmough) |
| Subject: | Right Elevator - Need Advice |
>On Fri, 5 Jan 1996 RFlunker(at)aol.com wrote:
> My question is quite simply how do I proceed in a manner that provides the
> best chance of a good fit of the counterbalance relative to the HS.
While on the subject of elevators, be VEWY VEWY careful about the alignment
between counterbalance and elevator horn. One of the most common problems I
have seen is that when it comes to lining up both elevators on the HS, you can
line up the horns or the tips but not both. This is usually because of warpage
in the LEFT elevator , the most flimsy(I think). What seems to happen is that
using the same fixture for both elevators multiplies any errors.
Ken
'6A
--
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Magic Online Services Toronto Inc. (416) 591-6490
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | HowardRV(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: sherwin williams primer |
Where did you get your positive pressure masks? How much?
Thanks
Howard Kidwell
howardrv(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: IFR requirments... |
>
> Speaking (again) of IFR requirments,
[snip!]
> A "perfect" panel
> would be: a horizon, a gps, and a comm radio, nothing else. Low maintenance
> low cost, and low hassle. Practically speaking, you need more than that but
> every piece beyond the basics will have to "earn" it's way into the panel.
>
> Aside from the legalities, I don't know of a good way to back up the electric
> horizon?? To pony up the $$ for one of them might hurt, I don't think I could
> swing two of them.
Well the best way is to do it legally, with the REQUIRED (for IFR) gyro rate-of-
turn indicator! That and the altimiter (required) constitutes "partial panel"
for pitch and roll that can be used to get you out of a pinch if the Horizon
goes out. Of course you would want to put the Horizon and Turn and bank
indicators on different circuits.
> If the FAA makes me put too much "junk" in the panel for IFR, I am thinking
> that I may just make the plane VFR only. I don't want to replicate the sorry
> state of GA panels in certified airplanes. I want something lean and mean
> and simple to maintain.
Well to clear it up, here's the FAR that deals with how much "junk" you'll
really need. Note that (1) and (2) specify day and night VFR stuff
that you have to have as well.
Sec. 91.205
(d) Instrument flight rules. For IFR flight, the following instruments and
equipment are required:
(1) Instruments and equipment specified in paragraph (b) of this section,
and, for night flight, instruments and equipment specified in paragraph (c)
of this section.
(2) Two-way radio communications system and navigational equipment
appropriate to the ground facilities to be used.
(3) Gyroscopic rate-of-turn indicator, except on the following aircraft:
[... snip cause it's N/A ...]
(4) Slip-skid indicator.
(5) Sensitive altimeter adjustable for barometric pressure.
(6) A clock displaying hours, minutes, and seconds with a sweep-second
pointer or digital presentation.
(7) Generator or alternator of adequate capacity.
(8) Gyroscopic pitch and bank indicator (artificial horizon).
(9) Gyroscopic direction indicator (directional gyro or equivalent).
Randall Henderson
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David A. Barnhart" <barnhart(at)crl.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Corrosion proofing steel |
Randall:
> After trying this method with several steel parts I'm starting to think
> it's better to just sandblast the parts and wipe down with lacquer
> thinner, and priming directly over that instead of trying to use some
> fancy metal conditioning treatment that seems to result in MORE rust.
That's exactly what I have done with all my weldments so far.
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
rv-6 sn 23744
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | LHaines794(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: IFR requirments... |
cpeedy.ENET.dec.com!walsh(at)matronics.com writes:
> A "perfect" panel
>would be: a horizon, a gps, and a comm radio, nothing else.
Surely you are not mentioning pitot/static instruments and transponder only
because these are obviously included in any modern airplane!?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Francis S. Smidler" <102776.1474(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Faying surface |
The question has been asked as to what a Faying surface is. It is NOT a
corrosion condition. It is what the lap or but joint of the aluminum skin is
called on an aircraft (or semitrailer for hauling nuclear warheads in my
incounter) as used by the Air Force. They often instruct that "all faying
surfaces be sealed" as an example.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JamesCone(at)aol.com |
I am having problems getting internet mail. When I logged on to tech support
live, several people were having the same problem. The said that we should
ask senders to resend the mail. I am not sure how to do this or if it will
work.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | 16 years of the RV-ator |
Yes, the 16 year RV-ator book and update pages are now being prepared. It
will include everything in the original 14 year book plus the technical
articles from the 1994-1995 Rv-ators, again set up in building sequence. The
book will be available about 1 1/2 months after we all receive the December
1995 RV-Ator from Ken at Vans.
But first, I'm writing to ask your help. I need three things.
1] BUILDERS CLUBS I need to update the list of builder's clubs. If you are
a member of, or know of a builder's club please e-mail me the club's name,
the name of the leader, and his or her address and phone number. (world wide
data please)
2] COVER PHOTO Yes, everyone wants RV photos and I know the good ones are
in short supply but I need a cover for the 16 year book too. Something
dramatic, or unusual. (the 14 year cover featured two RV-4s in inverted
formation near Seattle) Flying photos are great, but building pictures could
work too, as long as it's interesting and unusual.
I'll pick a photo based on content, clarity and lighting. If I pick
yours, you'll get a free book. If the picture has more than one plane, then
everyone pictured will get a book, including the photographer in the event of
an air-air shot. (up to five please) Please tell me if you want the picture
returned.
3] OTHER SUGGESTIONS For those who have the 14 year book, if you'd like to
make a suggestion for the new edition, now is the time. Content, layout,
organization, additions.......?????
Andy Gold
Easy Publishing
328 Luscombe Drive
Los Lunas, NM 87031
(505) 865-3466
(505) 866-7308 fax
or e-mail PFPA(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KUKULSKIM(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV4's -Leaky Canopy ?? |
When I was at Copperstate in 1993 I asked every RV-4 owner on the field I
could find what they thought on the canopy skirt mounted vents. Everyone I
spoke with who had such vents were disappointed in the amount of airflow.
Most also described the problem as notably worse for the rear seat occupant.
Tony Bingelis addressed this problem and proposed a "better" solution in his
column in the March 1991 Sport Aviation. This solution was a front baffle
mounted air pickup, with SCAT tubing to the cockpit. Bingelis claims the
airflow obtained was the best he had experienced. When I had my factory demo
ride with Bill Benedict, I discussed this method with him. He thought it was
a good one, but also pointed out a potential for an engine fire following the
duct work into the cockpit.
A solution to the fire integrity question may be a firewall-mounted cabin
heat-like butterfly valve to allow you to shut off the airflow at the
firewall. I have also considered a plenum chamber to reduce duct/airflow
noise, but I may just hold off this extra bit of work until I see how bad a
problem this may or may not be.
Cooling the rear seat is the bigger problem, one I also saw well addressed by
an RV-4 at Copperstate. It had a NACA duct on the bottom of the left wing,
just behind the main spar and just outside the wingwalk area. This had
ducting running to an outlet in the rear control stick well. The owner has
high praise for this installation, this method was also highly recommended in
the RV-6 message thread on the AOL homebuilt forum. This is any easy mod that
I have already installed using a NACA duct from Van's.
Hope this was helpful.
Mike Kukulski (KUKULSKIM(at)aol.com)
RV-4 Fuselage Innards
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gil(at)rassp.hac.com (Gil Alexander) |
| Subject: | Re: sherwin williams primer |
>Where did you get your positive pressure masks? How much?
>
>Thanks
>Howard Kidwell
>howardrv(at)aol.com
They are the masks that come with standard HobbyAir breathing
units, plus about $75 for the extra mask assy.
See their adverts. in Sport Aviation. They were easy to deal with,
and will give you a discount on the Croix sprayers/parts if you buy one of
their air supply units.
... Gil Alexander
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | joehine(at)mi.net (joehine) |
| Subject: | Re: RV4's -Leaky Canopy ?? |
>I've been working on fitting the side skins on my RV4 canopy. Since the
>side skins overlap the canopy near the canopy bottom, it obvious that water
>flowing down the canopy will find it way into the cockpit area. Van's
>doesn't mention the use of RTV or any other agent to seal this joint. Have
>any of you out there had a notion to seal this joint and if so with what?
>It seems to me that a good rain storm could leave a lot water inside the
>plane.
Rich
Sealing them with a bead of sealer is what I did. I used a black gooy
substance I can't remember the name of, which I obtained from a winshield
installer. The material was one that was paintable. I masked the metal at
the line where it meets the canopy and about a 1/8 to 1/4 inch above that
on the plexiglass I put another line of electrical tape. I then spread the
material with a popsical (sp) stick and once it had dried removed the lower
tape from the metal sides and left the electrical tape on the canopy and
used this to mask prior to painting. After, painting the seal looks good,
the paint hides it completly. It has not been in weather yet but I see no
reason for it to leak.
>Separate question. Has any body used the prefabbed NACA scoops (found in
>Aircraft Spruce or Wicks) on the curved area of the canopy skins. They are
>$20+ a throw and I just a soon not go throught the hasel of returning them
>if they won't work
>
>Are the conopy sides an effective area for the NACA scoops or should I
>place them lower on the fuselage?
>
I used the prefabbed scoops that Vans sells, it seems to me they were
cheaper than 20 dollars. I installed one only on the forward fuselage just
below the cowl extention and ran a 2" scat tube to a eyeball vent on the
panel. (Good ones I found from a bell 206 helicopter) Apparently the canopy
sides are not a good location. It looks much better on the fuselage side as
well.
Hope this helps
joe
>-- Rich
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle (Matt G. Dralle 510-606-1001) |
| Subject: | Re: 16 years of the RV-ator |
Hi Andy,
I haven't announced it yet to the RV-List but in a couple of weeks Matronics
will have a new web page on the Internet. Along with detailed promos for the
Matronics FuelScan and Governor products is a complete section on the
RV-List including a subscrition form, and browsable RV-List Archives.
It seems like these might be good things to include in the publication
somewhere.
As I said, the pages aren't quite complete and I havn't yet announced it on the
List but I suspect to have the whole thing ready in about 2 weeks. Here is
a breakdown of the Web URLs that will be available:
http://www.matronics.com/index.html Matronics Homepage.
Links to all other
pages from here.
http://www.matronics.com/rv-list/index.html RV-List Homepage
http://www.matronics.com/fuelscan/index.html FuelScan Promo
http://www.matronics.com/governor/index.html Governor Mk III Promo
For now I would prefer that these pages not be general knowledge until they are
complete. I will announce their availability on the RV-List as soon as they're
ready.
Thanks!
Matt Dralle
RV-List Admin.
>--------------
>Yes, the 16 year RV-ator book and update pages are now being prepared. It
>will include everything in the original 14 year book plus the technical
>articles from the 1994-1995 Rv-ators, again set up in building sequence. The
>book will be available about 1 1/2 months after we all receive the December
>1995 RV-Ator from Ken at Vans.
>
>But first, I'm writing to ask your help. I need three things.
>
>1] BUILDERS CLUBS I need to update the list of builder's clubs. If you are
>a member of, or know of a builder's club please e-mail me the club's name,
>the name of the leader, and his or her address and phone number. (world wide
>data please)
>
>2] COVER PHOTO Yes, everyone wants RV photos and I know the good ones are
>in short supply but I need a cover for the 16 year book too. Something
>dramatic, or unusual. (the 14 year cover featured two RV-4s in inverted
>formation near Seattle) Flying photos are great, but building pictures could
>work too, as long as it's interesting and unusual.
> I'll pick a photo based on content, clarity and lighting. If I pick
>yours, you'll get a free book. If the picture has more than one plane, then
>everyone pictured will get a book, including the photographer in the event of
>an air-air shot. (up to five please) Please tell me if you want the picture
>returned.
>
>3] OTHER SUGGESTIONS For those who have the 14 year book, if you'd like to
>make a suggestion for the new edition, now is the time. Content, layout,
>organization, additions.......?????
>
>Andy Gold
>Easy Publishing
>328 Luscombe Drive
>Los Lunas, NM 87031
>
>(505) 865-3466
>(505) 866-7308 fax
>or e-mail PFPA(at)aol.com
>
>--------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JamesCone(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: sherwin williams primer |
I use Marhyde self etching grey primer in 19 oz cans and they work great.
Jim Cone
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Corrosion proofing steel |
>I have a question about sealing/primering steel against corrosion.
>
>I've been using PPG Metal Cleaner, then Metal Conditioner (I don't
>remember the numbers), before priming my steel parts. I've found that
>using this treatment, unless I dry the parts QUICKLY after rinsing, I
>will get some areas of light rust right away. Also, even though the
>label on the metal cleaner says it's supposed to lift out rust, it
>doesn't seem to do that very well and I have to scotch-brite any rust
>off completely off before using it.
>
>My questions are: is a little surface rust OK to prime over? Is there
>any other method that will stabilize rust better before priming? Also,
>what about inside the tubes where you can't get at it with scotch-
>brite? How paranoid about getting every speck of rust off the steel
>before priming do I have to be?
>
>After trying this method with several steel parts I'm starting to think
>it's better to just sandblast the parts and wipe down with lacquer
>thinner, and priming directly over that instead of trying to use some
>fancy metal conditioning treatment that seems to result in MORE rust.
>
>I might mention here that I'm not really interested in doing any fancy
>powder-coating or chroming of the rudder pedals, control sticks, engine
>mount, etc. I just want to prime and paint with good quality primer and
>paint.
>
>Randall Henderson
>RV-6
Randall: I was fortunate to be able to use the FBO's bead blaster. It was
big enough that even the engine mount fit. I handled all steel pieces with
latex gloves after the bead blast, wiped down with paint prep and sprayed
away. On some steel parts, I used a Dupont metal stabalizer that seemed
similar to blueing a gun. Didn't notice any rusting. Where do you live?
I'm in Nebr. and it does get humid in the summer. I put a de-humidifier
(and airconditioner) in the shop. Really dropped the humidity.
Bob Skinner
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rcrothers(at)rcrothers.seanet.com (Randy Crothers) |
>Ok, I need some help from you guys. Like most, I really like the 3M
>Scotch-Brite cutting and polishing system. I use the 2" discs both in
>Scotch-Brite and in heavier grits for "real" removal of alum. My problem is
>that the air driven die grinders of course take a lot of air and in no time,
>my 30 gallon tank is behind and of course the rpm drops, and.... you know. I
>would like to get a electric die/disc grinder, however, the only ones I have
>seen in Harbor Freight, Sears, etc. have no way that I can see to adapt to a
>1/4" Mandrel needed to use the Scotch Brite system. Any ideas?
>
>Howard Kidwell
>howardrv(at)aol.com
Howard,
You should be able to find the type of die grinder you need at
welding supply stores or construction supply store. They are used
extensively in some types of pipe welding. I have an old Black & Decker
model 4286 but I think it spins too fast and has too little torque for good
cutting. Be very carefull in matching the RPMs of the grinder to the type of
wheels you buy for it. They can be deadly when they explode.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | finnlass(at)ix.netcom.com (Finn Lassen ) |
Hi! I've just spent the evening trying to read through the archive.
Only got to May '91, but can't wait to ask this:
1) Is the $575 tool kit from US Tools&Supply the best deal or would it
be smarter to buy individual pieces? I don't think I need the air
drill, and can get a used rivet gun for $105 (US Industial Tool, pg 163
Trade-a-plane Jan '96).
2) I'm considering buying a half-built (or so) RV-3. WIngs are
complerte, fuselage in boat stage. The question here is how do I
document the parts already built - and will I still be under the 51%
rule -- guy selling it (brought it from someone else as is now) says no
problem. But reading the earlier postings here leaves me wondering.
Any input on these points would be greatly appreciated!
Finn - Wants to build an RV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RAINPOOF(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Corrosion proofing steel |
I use MEK on all 4130 steel tube and plate and then prime with Zinc
December 25, 1995 - January 09, 1996
RV-Archive.digest.vol-ax